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Can the online people hear us?

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I can hear you loud and clear. Yes, wonderful. We are back in business.

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Recording in progress. OK. The time is now 10:20 and I am calling the special Mount

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Village Town Council meeting to order. I'm Mayor Pro Tem Tucker Maggot is Scott Pearson.

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Mayor Scott Pearson is, uh, remote today. So I'll be the presiding officer for this

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budget meeting. So our first item is the overview by Michelle and Elizabeth.

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With just a few changes.

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Hey guys, I can't hear very well. Mic's not on and the camera's not on. The room

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is not on.

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I'll go, I'll move over. Yeah.

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Is that better, Scott? Yes, OK, sorry, I was sitting in front of the wrong microphone.

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OK. So also included in this packet you'll see your department's management has put

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together their missions, their primary responsibilities and their accomplishments

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and their goals for the year. This is all part of us, um, improving our budget book

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so that we can submit it for the GFOA award but also to give more information. On

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what each department in the town pays. Um, these goals in this packet are, um, very,

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um, uh, succinct. We have our measurements and parameters more than others, so, uh,

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we have our measurements and parameters and deadlines included in our performing

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man for performance management system, um, but there are a few directors that will

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probably look to beef up some goals before we issue the final budget. To provide

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some more detail. Um, the general fund revenues are projected to increase about 15%,

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15.8% over the 2026 forecast. A big piece of that, as we discussed in our last meeting,

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is contributions related to some capital projects. From community partners and so

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with those removed our um revenues are increasing roughly 6.8% at this time there

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is not the mill a mill temporary mill levy credit in this budget because this is

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something council will talk about today. Um, as far as operating expenses, these

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are showing to be a. Uh, roughly 7.6% year over year. Um, when we looked at this

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in, um, September, it was lower, but there's a couple of factors that add to that,

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and that is we had a capital project that was moved from capital to operating as

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this project would not happen on town-owned property or one of our easements. So

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that impacted um the operating growth percentage, but you saw a decline in the capital.

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Um, the other is that we are anticipating a, um, increase in our ski pass and

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wellness benefit this year for employees and we have built that into the budget.

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Uh, one council member asked me to briefly discuss how we come up with our annual

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increases and, um, give you a general high-level overview of compensation of the

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town. Every 2 years, the town does a compensation study. We bring in a consultant

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who reviews not by job title but by job duties. And she ties those out to similar

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roles in both government and um non-government sectors. In some cases we have some

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positions that aren't typically government jobs and that data comes from CML CML,

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the Colorado Municipal League, and Pay Factors. And so this year. Our, um,

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overall ranges are shifting 2%. And there were very few adjustments needed above

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that. We're in the process of finalizing the comp study and we'll meet with the comp

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um The finance committee before we fully implement the comp study. But as far as

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our increases each year are split into what we call a market and a merit, and the

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market is standard across the town employees and it is designed to move you through

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your pay range. Over your years with the town. So, you know, that you're in the right

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point in the range as your experience grows. And then each year there's a variable

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merit and the variable merit is based on the employment, the employee review process

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that the town implements. So, the higher you, you know, if you get the highest score

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on it, you get the highest piece of the merit increase and it's scaled backwards

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from there. So, that's the general um compensation strategy with the town.

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I will say that we've been doing these comp studies now and a place and range study

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and we are far more aligned with where we should be than we were when we did this

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in the past and had to make some pretty significant changes. So, we feel like this

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has put us on the right path, making sure team is paid competitively and um for both

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the area and their field. OK. Um, capital outlay, we have, um, a boiler

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replacement, um, continued work on the trail's master plan. Pond lot improvements,

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um, snowmelt for the Plaza Beach near lift 4. That is one of those projects that,

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um, We are um anticipating a regional partner support to complete.

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The post office expansion was previously in the last budget included in the 2027

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budget, but that project is now slated to be completed in 2026 and has been moved

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to the 2026 forecast. Uh, the 10 year consolidation that's just in town hall, right?

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That is in the right, right next door to town hall, that plaza expansion. I mean,

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the post office expansion. Uh, the 10-year consolidated plan, this year we increased

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our plan from 5 to 10 years. Um, it's included in your packet and we'll discuss it,

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these long-range plans. I will point out that there are several things that are being

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discussed that this is always a kind of a moving target depending on the initiatives

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of council, but it's a good step in, in. Looking at what we have for the future in

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making decisions for today. Um, general fund transfers, uh, typically we support,

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uh, the town transfers money to the vehicle acquisition fund to fund those purchases

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and also the budget includes transfers to the Child Development Fund and the Telluride

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Conference Center Fund to assist with ongoing operations and finally annually 11.11%

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of sales tax is transferred to the Affordable Housing Fund.

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Uh, you know, I, I don't know that we wanna go through each one of these cause I

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think we might get into detail when we're going into the budget, but yes, Harvey.

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Sorry, uh, when you, when you finish, I think there's one overview comment that I'll

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make, so I didn't mean to interrupt, but just to let you know. Um, I don't know if

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you guys want me to go through each of these or if we'll just talk into more detail

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about it when we get to these places in the budget. Um, I'm sure everybody's had

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time to read the memo. Uh, but how do you feel about that, that we just move in after

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Harvey's overview. So I was just gonna comment, um, I know we're gonna go fund by

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fund, but I think from, from my perspective, I hope everyone got through the whole

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packet to, to the end. Because the most important document is at the end. And that's

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the consolidated schedule which brings together all of the funds on a consolidated

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basis and so forth, and I would ask each council member to have that document in

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mind as we're going through fund by fund. Yes, and to Harvey's point, that does not

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include the self-supporting funds. So this is the general fund and funds that receive

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support from the general fund. So it's a summary of all funds that are using general

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tax dollars.

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Um, I had a, a couple, just two quick overview comments also I wanted to make. Um,

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the first is I just wanted to highlight the fact that our 2026 forecast came in,

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you know, 1 point. $1.4 million ahead of budget. Some of that was because of some

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capital projects that we didn't do, but it does reflect what I have observed, which

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is that, you know, appropriately we budget conservatively, but in general we do better

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than we forecast. Um, that seems to be a consistent trend, and, um, but it, it does,

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it still comes, it still comes in as a deficit for 20 for 26.

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Um, on the, on the consolidated schedule, on the consolidated schedule, although.

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I, I don't know when the right time to talk about the consolidated schedule is because

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there, I think there are some. Some aspects about that, you know, which is that the

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consolidated schedule doesn't reflect the inflows, the extraordinary inflows, for

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example, all the Four Seasons money that came in, but it does reflect the outflows

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when we're, you know, spending some of that money on. You know, projects that, for

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example, roads that are impacted by the four seasons. So, not, uh, I, I think, I

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think we need to, we need to talk about that at some point. I also think that the

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consolidated schedule in some ways. Doesn't fully reflect all of the potential impacts

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on the general fund. We exclude the self-supporting funds like water and sewer, but

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you know, when we launch this wastewater plant, we may have to come up with several

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million dollars that is not currently in the sewer reserves, and, and that's gonna

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hit the general fund. So I think it, it, it, it also argues for some conservatism

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in, um, even in, in that fund.

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You probably agree with that, Harvey.

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Yes, yes. OK. Those those are my overviews. So I don't, I guess, um,

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we have a lot to talk through today and I wanna make sure that we get the timing

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of, of discussing the temporary mill levy credit correctly. Do we want to get through

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the budget and then go back and talk about that piece of it or do we wanna start

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talking about that with the general fund with the budget as the way it is now?

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What is your preference? I would take guidance from the finance committee. So, Harvey,

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Scott, Pete, how do you want to work this in? Cause it is an important discussion

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and I just, um, I'm not sure where you want to slot it in.

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Go ahead, Scott. I, I guess I see some merit in doing it at the end, so we, you know,

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have a fuller understanding of all the puts and takes, but I, I don't feel super

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strongly about that. I, I think that's probably a good point because if you decide

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that you want to give us direction on changing some things, we've looked at the whole

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budget and you'll know what impacts that schedule. Yeah, I, I, I agree with that.

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I would just say, uh, We, we might get tired at the end, so I do want it to be a

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robust discussion before we get too tired. So, OK, that just means we have to get

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through everything pretty quickly.

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Um, OK. So the general fund, I think we've gone through the assumptions. You all

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have the summary packet, and I don't know if there are certain items you would like

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to focus on. Um, I have answered a few council questions, um, prior to the meeting.

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Um, I will say there are some still some preliminary estimates. I continue to update

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sales tax projections as we get our actuals in and as we get updates from, um, tell

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you. So that's a number that continues to fluctuate. The other one, that we work

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to tie in.

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Sales tax. 00, the sales tax component, OK, yes, and, um, the other is, you know,

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we continue to work on community development revenues through the end of the year

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because that department gets a new permits or things change and we calculate those.

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Um, one of the things a council member asked me was, um, you know, we seem to have

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some robust, uh, community development. Um, revenues previously in the, um, like

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in construction use tax and we found that as costs are going up and as our building

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department began doing audits of every permit before they close, we were having a

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lot of true-ups at the end and the trend is now showing that people are doing better

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estimates at the beginning so they don't have to write another check at the end.

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So we do expect that those um project ending true-ups are going to slow down. So

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that's one of the pieces, but that's one that we will continue to update as things

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change, um, through the year. Elizabeth, I'll just note one thing on the post office

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expansion is that we've had a consultant working on that project, and although we

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hope we can do some work in 2027, it'll likely be, or 2026, it'll likely be a 2027

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project, so we'll have some budget, um, values in both years. So we'll reallocate

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that in the next draft. And, and Elizabeth, we, you know, we continue to have robust,

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uh, fees for services, um, which is coming out of the building and, you know, construction

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and so forth just as, just as a general comment. I'm, I'm assuming we, we get real-time

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updates from the planning department and so forth as far as backlog and permits,

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so we work through that, um, so I know that next year we have some multi-families

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coming through. We have. Um, a, um, housing unemployee housing project that doesn't

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have any fees assigned, 5 to 6 single-family homes in this budget and quite a bit

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of remodel and so, um, Amy and Lars have spent a lot of time pulling a lot of this

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data together and running it through the calculators to try and get some estimates,

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but yes.

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This is on the, uh, on the forecasted, just following on that, on the forecasted

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versus budget, um, if the, the revenues from permitting fees haven't changed,

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does it look like we're on track for that? Yeah, well, it looks like we are on track

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to hit those um this year. We might be off slightly in the um In, in some of these

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line items. So, like I said, we're continuing to kind of firm that up whether these

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projects permit at the end of 26 or the beginning of 27 will affect that number because

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that changes the year the revenues come in. So you may have a little bit of shifting,

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Scott. Just one comment on the overall 26 budget, you know, given where we started

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the year. And where we think we're going to end up. Turned out to be pretty, pretty

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non-eventful year, right? Yeah, it's, well, I shouldn't say, you know, I think we

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definitely learned a lot and we did put more money out for community support, but

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even with that money and the sales tax being down, you know, we've finished, we'll

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finish strongly. You kind of recovered in the summer. Yeah, and I will say we haven't

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released our August sales tax numbers yet. They are down a little bit, but that is

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because, um, Film Fest happened fully in September. So we actually end up having

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two festivals in September and based on preliminary booking data that we got from

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TT TTB between ADR being up and bookings being up, we could be up somewhere in the

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neighborhood of 10 to 14% and uh I think. I think you'll be pleased with the September

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numbers. August is down. September is substantially up. October, because the gondola

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remains open, um, is ahead as well. And so to Pete's point, I think we had a strong

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summer, right, even though at the beginning we were pacing behind as a destination,

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uh, for the month of June, for example, but then everything picked up and we're looking

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to finish strong now. Uh, we've got to make sure December materializes. We get plenty

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of snow, and, and then we should be in a good place for, for the year. And I think

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Lobi just mentioned today in our, um, leadership team meeting that the gondola counts

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for this weekend were just off the charts. Yeah, we had, and you know there's been

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a lot of people in the cops, so I was gonna say there were some really long lines

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at the gondola down in town at Oak Street, etc. so, so that, that summer growth has

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really, you know, strengthened. And continues to do so.

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Well, should we get rolling? Sure thing. All right, item number 3, administration.

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Michelle is up first. Um, so we can run through the town manager, um, department

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and what's going on there next year and then she can answer some questions. Goals

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or council, I think maybe that'll be our way of going through this, but you'll notice

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that the big change in the town manager budget is in that consulting budget, and

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that is where we've been putting those future costs for the gondola that we share

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with Smart Telluride TMA. And this year Harvey can probably shed quite a bit more

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light. I believe that Harvey and Scott also met with Smart on this budget, but there's

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a lot. More activity this year and our share of um the expense for this project are

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roughly 816,000. I put 820 in the budget as a round number um in addition to that

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we have Michelle has been able to utilize some special project management to help

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move along projects like the post office and such that are um maybe new projects

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that come on that everybody has an interest in seeing um happen quickly. Uh, the

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Pont Plaza, there's still, there's about 70 $75,000 in Michelle's budget for that

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piece. I shouldn't say Michelle, town manager. Um, and then potential town hall subarea

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planning of about $50,000. So that's, that's what you'll see as the biggest change

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here. Everything else is pretty um standard and I'll just note too the town manager

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salaries includes the town manager, the assistant town manager, and a half of um

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an admin. Michelle, I'm sorry to interrupt, but before we descend, I'm wondering

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if the budget and finance committee members have any other 30,000 ft kind of framing

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comments before we look at 27. Um, I, I don't mean to put. Scott Harvey, Pete on

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the spot, but anything else we should be thinking before we descend? I think, I think

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there's probably 5 items that are gonna get some discussion.

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I don't want to necessarily lead the witness right now, but you know. OK, so, so

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I, I would, I, I would just say the same thing that I would say every year, which

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is our trend is that the revenues are basically flat once you exclude, uh, one-time

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items, um, you know, like the Four Seasons. Our, our revenues are trending either

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flat to down. I mean, we're basically, you know, 24 budgeting 24 numbers, and yet

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our, and our costs, uh, continue to, you know. Ratchet up with those wage increases

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and, and benefits and so forth. So those are the, those are the broad trend lines

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that I continue to see. It's helpful. Thank you. Yeah, and I, um, I think

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we, we are in a much healthier place than I feared we'd be in February, so that's

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good. Um, I think we have, um, looking into the future, we have some.

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Continued growth in revenues, you know, when the Four Seasons comes on, there's gonna

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be a bump in property taxes to the tune of maybe 800,000 a year and a bump in sales

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taxes that could be in the millions, um, but we also have, you know, some very large

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expenses, you know, particularly depending on how the wastewater treatment plant

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is financed, you know, there could be. Several million dollars that need to be contributed

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to that and then you know this council's gonna have an ongoing discussion about how

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much of our general fund revenues we contribute to to housing, um. So those

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are, those are some of the big things. And then I think, um, you know, the other

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positive trend is that, you know, TMVOA after 2027 is going to have

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considerably more available resources. You know, their mission is not identical to

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ours, but it's quite aligned. Um, in terms of, you know, doing things and spending

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money that enhances the community and so, you know, we have built a very strong working

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relationship with TMBOA, um, and if that, you know, continues that I think is also

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some wind in our sails, uh, in future years. But Scott, would you agree that on that

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topic, at least my perspective is TMWA is focused on capital type projects, not,

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not operating expenses. Is that, is that true? You know, I, I, they have said that,

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but I think they spend almost a million dollars a year on music, for example. Um,

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not that we would spend a million dollars a year on music, but it enhances the community,

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um, and, and it certainly, you know, boosts sales tax because people come and then,

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you know, they eat and drink and shop. So I, I, I know that's mostly what, what they

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do, but we, when we look at their budget, there's a fair amount of actual operating

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spending that they engage in. Yeah, like munchkins, they, you know, they're. Contributing

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3 or 300,000 to 400,000 to expand that so we have. So we'll be talking at the October

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meeting about the expansion costs and what our ask will be, but they have shown more

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interest in operate some certain operations than they have in the past. Correct.

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Um, do you want any more of an overview from me? I mean, I, I'm really proud of our

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staff. Um, I'm happy that we were able to stay on track with a lot of our projects

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like Ilium Housing in our, um, 26 schools, wastewater plant moving that forward with

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telluride. Um, some of the accomplishments, um, seemed better suited in the various

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departments like the, um, community development just did so much work around forestry

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and fire mitigation and that. It will show up in their goals and accomplishments,

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um, and I think that our 2027 goals are on point. Um, the role of the town manager

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office really is to provide that larger umbrella and have those relationships with

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our other organizations, um, and stakeholders, and these goals should generally be

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reflective of that. I had a question on the rec center. I thought at one point we

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saw society turn as Where a rec center would go, but am I getting the inclination,

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it might be up here. Well, yes, TMBOA has been doing feasibility work on a rec center,

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um, essentially where they own the property where that informal trail is between

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BCA and the market. There's a little, uh, social trail on the property, a little

261
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bridge. So, um, it includes feasibility on that property, um, during our subarea

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master. Planning for this civic area we've rezoned a portion of the right of way

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thinking about moving the right of way into one direction or the other rather than

264
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having a split road and then TMBA owns those little islands too, so they're kind

265
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of looking at aggregated land area for the purposes of a rec center and they've been

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actively working with a consultant and then talking with us as it relates to land.

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And subdivision and ownership, um, about that possibility of a rec center in Mountain

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Village. There haven't been any coordinated, um, regional discussions that I'm aware

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of, you know, like an inter intergovernmental meeting. I know that we like the idea

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that it could go where the current wastewater treatment plant site is. I don't think

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that's off the table. That's just a few years down the road if we wanted to revisit

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that.

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I guess the last overview comment I would make relates to the very last page of the

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packet, um, on page 110, and this is a, a headcount analysis, and if,

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if we look at the headcount between 2026 and 2027, it's flat, and if we compare that

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going back to 2025, it's down. Um, this has been a priority of mine that we, we don't

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increase town headcount and. That that's, it's a hard thing to do because people

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have a lot of work and, and there's a lot that we wanna get done and I just wanna

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commend Michelle, Elizabeth and the entire staff for um the discipline of keeping

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that head count flat.

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So, um, if there aren't any other questions on town manager, I can.

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This department, um, as everybody knows, I'm sorry, just we're gonna have a new town

283
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manager. We have an existing assistant town manager, so from a budget perspective

284
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it's kind of. Consistent 26 to 27 or is there an increase cause Our

285
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town manager, Paul is no longer here. I'm, I'm just, so if you, if you'll remember

286
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that we do have, we did have um severance agreement payment. So, OK, so net net net,

287
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it's so I guess one of the other points that I.

288
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Come in. When you look at the benefit counts too. You'll see that across departments

289
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it kind of fluctuates and that is because I budget based on current employees' actual

290
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elections and so if we had a vacancy in the previous year we budget that will be

291
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full staffed and this year you're gonna see a larger increase over forecast so that's

292
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another thing that um you know might. You know, tends to ebb and flow between departments.

293
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So town managers up 600,000 and it's related to the consulting on the otherwise,

294
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yeah, and if you look at the bottom, um, for these general fund departments, I added

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this little section that kind of showed you how. The variance between the 2026 original

296
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and forecast came in like if, so if you look at the town manager department personnel

297
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for the year was up 113,000. It's an outlier year, but operating expenses are projected

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to be down 30,000. And then next year, personnel costs are anticipated to be down

299
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about 32,000 for the reasons that I mentioned earlier and operation costs are going

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up in 620. So, this, these little summaries at the bottom of each. kind of give you

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an idea as to where those changes are coming in, whether it's personnel or operating.

302
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The other thing that's relevant to the town manager's salary line is recall that

303
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Paul was not only the the town manager, he was also the assistant general counsel.

304
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So if you look at the next page under the legal budget, you'll see that salary and

305
00:29:10,058 --> 00:29:17,066
wages, um, in 2026 were budgeted at $73,000 and in 2027 they go to 0.

306
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Yes. And you'll, you'll also see that um when we looked back, we tried to look at

307
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um a good historical years of, of how those legal dollars were spent, but we did

308
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recognize that in 2027, we will not be filling an assistant town attorney role. So,

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we did increase slightly for some of the work that Paul did, um. As far as contract

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review and management and such.

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Um, Scott's comment on the headcount, I appreciate in the last year or three, we've

312
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been relatively flat down. Did, can you just send offline our headcount going back

313
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as far as you have it? Because my vague recollections 10 plus years ago, we, during

314
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the recession, we got down under 130 and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with

315
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160 or whatever we're at. I'm just curious where the growth has been over time. Yeah,

316
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and I think it might be uh uh good to add in there some of the new initiatives that

317
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have been brought on by the council. See where some of those increases came in. Yeah,

318
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thank you. Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. And on, on that, on that point, you know,

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consistent with the theory of the consolidated schedule at the end, I think when

320
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we're looking at that, we need to exclude things like the gondola fund and so forth,

321
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which is a complete in and out for the town. So I wouldn't, in other words, if, if

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gondola went up, I wouldn't want that to be skewing our numbers up, so we should

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just focus on, on the areas where, you know, we control the headcount.

324
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David had input into the legal budget, yes, and, and one of the things that, uh,

325
00:31:02,014 --> 00:31:07,005
David and I talked about is that this is always going to be very dependent on what

326
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happens during the year and while he is not coming to us looking for additional work,

327
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things get pushed his way in the sense that there's a, a new initiative that Coming

328
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out. So he definitely wanted to make sure that everybody understands that he's not

329
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soliciting work from the town. The town is bringing work to Garfield. So, you know,

330
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depending on what happens next year with any litigation or if something big comes

331
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up, I mean, these numbers can change. But he has a basic not to exceed proposal to

332
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us, right? Not to. Or is it just time and materials that we have.

333
00:31:46,006 --> 00:31:51,045
You know, it, it's based on what work we send him. OK, so there is no not to exceed

334
00:31:51,045 --> 00:31:59,041
ceiling. No, you can't predict what legal trouble you get, but I will say that just

335
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as we did this year.

336
00:32:05,053 --> 00:32:10,043
Yeah, I understand. OK. Human resources.

337
00:32:15,021 --> 00:32:20,063
I, I will say Lindsay and Ashley have been really amazing in keeping all of the different

338
00:32:20,085 --> 00:32:28,003
um things that HR has going on at this time of the year going, taking on uh Moved

339
00:32:28,003 --> 00:32:33,051
on, but also keeping up with our, you know, we were in the middle of, uh, benefit

340
00:32:33,051 --> 00:32:39,039
negotiations, a comp study, open enrollment, town manager recruitment, town manager

341
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:46,095
recruitment move on. So just, um, as a comment that that has, um, things have been

342
00:32:46,095 --> 00:32:51,043
going very smoothly and we've all been working, you know, to make sure that things

343
00:32:51,043 --> 00:32:57,071
aren't falling through the cracks. So, um, there was. If you look through the accomplishments

344
00:32:57,071 --> 00:33:02,068
and goals, HR is written how you would expect HR to be very detailed and

345
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But um if you have any uh questions about those, um, we can kind of start discussing

346
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what's going on in the expense section.

347
00:33:16,087 --> 00:33:17,008
Thank you, Lindsay.

348
00:33:19,071 --> 00:33:26,006
Busy fall, huh? Yeah, very, very much so. And your consulting numbers down because

349
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that was mostly town manager. Well, no, this year the consulting piece was the project

350
00:33:33,057 --> 00:33:39,027
management. Was provided to the team. It was a big jump over last year, so it's kind

351
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of an education piece. The town manager recruitment is in the recruitment, uh, recruiting

352
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category. So that's um about 3/4 of the way down. There's a note, number 4 next to

353
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it.

354
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So the consulting budget kind of changes depending on what, what's going on in the

355
00:33:59,002 --> 00:34:04,016
year. If you have a comp study or a special education initiative, the council wants

356
00:34:04,016 --> 00:34:10,066
to see that line item will change. Um, you'll notice they're down this year, um,

357
00:34:10,083 --> 00:34:17,067
in Um, wages and that is, of course, because we have a vacancy and then next year,

358
00:34:18,037 --> 00:34:23,055
this department should be fully staffed with the increases or is budgeted to be.

359
00:34:25,068 --> 00:34:32,079
There's one comment and So I recently became aware that Performance appraisals weren't.

360
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Given to everybody. And you know it's I think that's a really important thing to

361
00:34:40,003 --> 00:34:48,003
do and Who is, who are they not I think I can clarify that we, we do biennial

362
00:34:48,003 --> 00:34:53,005
check-ins and sometimes the biennial check-ins were happening, but performance appraisals

363
00:34:53,005 --> 00:34:59,082
always happen. Yeah, yes, yeah, I can. They're actually due by November 15th if.

364
00:35:05,003 --> 00:35:05,057
Yeah.

365
00:35:08,018 --> 00:35:12,093
I mean, that's the basis of our budget and also the, the merit is that performance

366
00:35:12,093 --> 00:35:18,001
evaluation. But it's important that we have set up these um check-ins. I think the

367
00:35:18,001 --> 00:35:24,069
manager does a 11 check-in and then the directors do 2 check-ins and then we've got

368
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:29,081
managers beneath that. Anyone who supervises has check-ins and that is so that if

369
00:35:29,081 --> 00:35:33,093
there are performance issues, we can be proactive around that in advance of that,

370
00:35:33,098 --> 00:35:37,057
that final performance review that's due in like November or December.

371
00:35:43,019 --> 00:35:50,053
Anything else got off easy. All right, OK, so the next one is town council, and um

372
00:35:50,055 --> 00:35:55,026
the town council, oh yes, sorry, I did, I did have a, sorry, I did have a question

373
00:35:55,026 --> 00:36:03,004
on the um the ski pass uncertainty. And um

374
00:36:03,043 --> 00:36:05,058
I thought that was resolved at this point.

375
00:36:07,085 --> 00:36:13,024
I think it is resolved, Rick. I think our conclusion is, is that we are, we do not

376
00:36:13,024 --> 00:36:18,088
seek and will not accept, uh, a discounted ski pass. So I think we, with the, the

377
00:36:18,088 --> 00:36:26,027
conservative assumption that is in there is, is the correct assumption. Got it. So

378
00:36:26,027 --> 00:36:33,005
it's budgeted now at at um at full price. Yes. It, um,

379
00:36:33,067 --> 00:36:38,037
it's, yeah, it's actually, it's budgeted at the early season rate, so we're trying

380
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:42,007
to like, it, Lindsay and I will be working on how to roll that out and get as many

381
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:50,027
purchased as possible before, uh, increase. OK, thank you. Appreciate that. Yes,

382
00:36:50,052 --> 00:36:57,002
thank you. Um, the next piece is town council. Town council has, uh, moved their

383
00:36:57,002 --> 00:37:03,027
retreat to after the new town manager starts. So I'll need one of you to draft your

384
00:37:03,027 --> 00:37:10,051
mission and, um, goals for the next year for our budget book. Um, the biggest increases

385
00:37:10,051 --> 00:37:16,078
here as you remember a few years ago, um, The compensation budget for council member,

386
00:37:16,089 --> 00:37:21,012
the compensation policy for council members was a was adjusted, it hadn't been adjusted

387
00:37:21,012 --> 00:37:25,076
in years and years and years. So we're now through that final cycle of getting everybody

388
00:37:25,076 --> 00:37:30,044
on board. So after the June elections, everybody will be on the new compensation

389
00:37:30,044 --> 00:37:31,007
structure.

390
00:37:35,003 --> 00:37:39,013
So what's the comment here, a bargain at half the price? Pardon?

391
00:37:48,009 --> 00:37:49,074
Are there any other questions on council?

392
00:37:52,068 --> 00:37:58,033
Moving right along, moving right along. Um, town clerk, Susan is out of town. She

393
00:37:58,033 --> 00:38:03,084
had a family emergency, but her budget doesn't change too much. Um, her biggest,

394
00:38:04,022 --> 00:38:09,005
um, increase next year is with the election happening, and you'll notice that we

395
00:38:09,005 --> 00:38:13,017
had that also budgeted in 2026 because there were thoughts that there could have

396
00:38:13,017 --> 00:38:17,001
been a special election this year that didn't happen. So those expenses were not

397
00:38:17,001 --> 00:38:19,065
expended, but they are in again for next year.

398
00:38:22,004 --> 00:38:25,056
Uh, my que I know she's not there, but my question, and maybe you talked to her for

399
00:38:25,008 --> 00:38:29,087
the, the amount for the election is sort of consistent with, you know, every two

400
00:38:29,087 --> 00:38:37,031
years, um. Do, do you expect anything additional this election, or is it just this,

401
00:38:37,043 --> 00:38:43,038
you know, same routine? Is that why it's the same? Yeah, so that's Susan's is, is

402
00:38:43,038 --> 00:38:47,005
assumes the same cost, so it usually falls right in line.

403
00:38:50,008 --> 00:38:57,069
So this paper vision. Discussion. I mean, I, I, I get the sense that a lot of her

404
00:38:57,069 --> 00:39:05,001
time is Core core requests and you know digging through records and Do we have a

405
00:39:05,001 --> 00:39:12,001
fairly sophisticated document management document sort? Um, so we, we do have paper

406
00:39:12,001 --> 00:39:17,056
vision and Susan is working on a project and you'll see it in her goals, um, in that

407
00:39:18,034 --> 00:39:23,093
hopefully we'll have that system sorted out so that the public can actually go and

408
00:39:23,093 --> 00:39:28,093
look for public documents on their own without, um, you know, potentially having

409
00:39:28,093 --> 00:39:35,063
to go through the court process. I think that, um. It's, I mean, paper vision is

410
00:39:35,063 --> 00:39:41,067
used by a lot of governments and you are able to um provide documents to the public

411
00:39:41,067 --> 00:39:46,096
and if we can get that piece going, it does take a little bit of time off. With the

412
00:39:46,096 --> 00:39:48,008
advent of AI, I mean.

413
00:39:51,003 --> 00:39:55,054
I will say that paper vision doesn't seem to have any meaningful upgrades so that

414
00:39:55,054 --> 00:40:01,094
it makes it easier over time. We've been using it for at least 15 years, um, and

415
00:40:01,094 --> 00:40:07,003
to your point, in, in terms of records, there are a lot of more sophisticated things

416
00:40:07,003 --> 00:40:13,053
out there to be able to pull those records together. That public interface is critical

417
00:40:13,073 --> 00:40:18,063
because we went through that when I was a clerk in the town of Telluride and to direct

418
00:40:18,071 --> 00:40:24,001
a pub a member of the public to be able to look. For records themselves, um, saves

419
00:40:24,001 --> 00:40:28,056
staff time and also can save them money if they don't wanna, you know, pay those

420
00:40:28,058 --> 00:40:33,008
fees if it was an extensive records request. I think it's critical that paper vision

421
00:40:34,006 --> 00:40:40,056
find a way to make that happen, um, and or find ways to make that interface easier.

422
00:40:40,058 --> 00:40:46,013
It's not an intuitive program and it has not evolved over time the way some other

423
00:40:46,013 --> 00:40:50,049
companies or um government uh records systems do.

424
00:40:52,051 --> 00:40:57,000
Michelle, are we trapped in paper vision or is it easy to port all of our documents

425
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:03,005
to another system? Well, typically that function has to be available because no government

426
00:41:03,005 --> 00:41:09,095
sticks with one record keeping system the way. evolves. So, yeah, that is exactly

427
00:41:09,095 --> 00:41:14,067
what would need to happen. How easy or hard that is is probably something that Susan

428
00:41:14,067 --> 00:41:20,027
understands and it probably hasn't been easy, which is probably why we haven't undertaken

429
00:41:20,027 --> 00:41:26,048
a large scale project like that in the past. We can let her know that you asked about

430
00:41:26,048 --> 00:41:32,056
it and also talk financial impacts of a new system might be. And I just wanna make

431
00:41:32,056 --> 00:41:38,007
sure I understand the workflow. If we get a CORA request, can we legally point them

432
00:41:38,009 --> 00:41:39,005
to paper vision and say.

433
00:41:41,013 --> 00:41:48,004
Have a go. Not right. We get a formal core of a class. We have to respond. Well,

434
00:41:48,017 --> 00:41:49,002
do you want to answer that, Sierra?

435
00:41:51,011 --> 00:41:56,006
Hi. Um, right now, we can't because paper vision is not available to the public,

436
00:41:56,047 --> 00:42:00,034
um, which is kind of what they were saying is like we're trying to make it to where

437
00:42:00,059 --> 00:42:06,024
that is possible so that the public can access paper vision on the website. Um, but

438
00:42:06,024 --> 00:42:09,088
it might take some work because we'll have to narrow down like the search criteria

439
00:42:09,088 --> 00:42:14,024
because right now it is a little bit difficult to like work through and Susan and

440
00:42:14,024 --> 00:42:18,041
I are working on like training staff to be able to look through that stuff as well,

441
00:42:18,074 --> 00:42:24,012
um, like search criteria and like how to input documents. I don't know if was your

442
00:42:24,012 --> 00:42:28,094
question mainly once this gets up and running if you can respond to a core request

443
00:42:28,094 --> 00:42:33,004
and say that's available online and point them to paper vision or once they submit

444
00:42:33,004 --> 00:42:34,008
a core request to you.

445
00:42:38,036 --> 00:42:44,042
Um, I mean, I, I can kind of answer that. Like, um, right now, um, Town of Telluride,

446
00:42:44,051 --> 00:42:50,089
if I wanted to look up my own documents and their There's a public portal, um, and

447
00:42:50,089 --> 00:42:55,075
it's all the information's on their website. So, and anything we produce that's a

448
00:42:55,075 --> 00:43:00,025
record, contracts agreements are open to the public. I mean, we follow the state

449
00:43:00,025 --> 00:43:06,073
of Colorado, um, records are like retention and, and we understand things that are

450
00:43:06,073 --> 00:43:11,029
confidential versus not confidential. So that's with any record system you need to

451
00:43:11,029 --> 00:43:17,027
kinda bring that forward if we were even with our existing system. So, in a perfect

452
00:43:17,027 --> 00:43:22,015
world, I mean when we did this in Telluride, it saved so much time. I mean, I'm a

453
00:43:22,015 --> 00:43:27,079
dinosaur at this point, but we would actually go into the vault and have to go into

454
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:33,062
our bit of books and do all this work and I mean, records have been transformed over

455
00:43:33,062 --> 00:43:38,067
time. So anyway, the long and short of it is, um, you could do that in the future.

456
00:43:38,073 --> 00:43:43,076
You can say you can go and look for this record yourself. It's still a courtesy if,

457
00:43:43,089 --> 00:43:49,059
if, and it's a, it's a service we provide, um, if a member of the public can't find

458
00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:55,051
that record, um, or needs assistance finding that record. But is there a statutory

459
00:43:55,051 --> 00:44:01,009
requirement that if somebody request, we have to produce documents and possibly send

460
00:44:01,009 --> 00:44:06,009
it to them, or can we send them to uh a robust database to go find the information

461
00:44:06,009 --> 00:44:10,093
they want? Yeah, I don't really know the answer to that. I mean that would be the

462
00:44:10,093 --> 00:44:16,031
goal, but it's obviously legal needs to comment sorry. Someone was coming. No, I,

463
00:44:16,041 --> 00:44:20,084
I was just gonna, I was just gonna ask also to follow on, um, are the fees that we

464
00:44:20,084 --> 00:44:25,036
charge for doing that searching in the core of work, are those prescribed by, you

465
00:44:25,036 --> 00:44:30,083
know, by statute, or those fees, and they're, they're extremely low, and that was

466
00:44:30,089 --> 00:44:36,083
the question behind my question, Harvey, because last year, for example. Kerfuffle

467
00:44:36,083 --> 00:44:42,023
with the ski company and there were core requests related to it and we're getting

468
00:44:42,023 --> 00:44:47,098
paid what was it like 25 to $45 an hour or something we have lawyers who are much

469
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:54,047
more expensive doing that work and that's why I'm hoping we can close that gap and

470
00:44:54,047 --> 00:44:59,031
does that lawyer fees they show up in the legal department, not in town clerk. That's

471
00:44:59,031 --> 00:45:04,023
a good question and we were struggling with that with such an extensive records request

472
00:45:04,023 --> 00:45:10,096
at the time. I'm recognizing that there was a gap and they honestly um that records

473
00:45:10,096 --> 00:45:15,016
request that you're talking about not only had a lot of legal hours but it also had

474
00:45:15,016 --> 00:45:20,068
a lot of staff hours you know trying to break that apart we just for that small amount

475
00:45:20,068 --> 00:45:27,051
of money it's worth it. Sounds like this is a a big improvement opportunity yeah

476
00:45:28,053 --> 00:45:36,000
this isn't a problem this is phenomenon it is. OK Great. Finance

477
00:45:36,003 --> 00:45:43,033
for the finance department, um, we transitioned the assistant finance director role

478
00:45:43,033 --> 00:45:49,003
after Julie left, and this year we had actually budgeted in some of those overlapping

479
00:45:49,003 --> 00:45:55,057
hours, so you'll see that our wages go down next year. Um, I will say too that we

480
00:45:55,057 --> 00:46:01,093
had great success in filling another role in the department for, um, Cathy Smith

481
00:46:01,093 --> 00:46:09,057
who's retiring in. November, so. We will be transitioning that role. Um,

482
00:46:09,091 --> 00:46:14,003
we have been working on for years on trying to get an automated AP process that will

483
00:46:14,003 --> 00:46:20,015
integrate with our software and we actually, um, Started that process at the end

484
00:46:20,015 --> 00:46:27,059
of last year and we have our first meeting in October to start the project, um, hoping

485
00:46:27,059 --> 00:46:32,031
to have that, hoping that that goes smoothly. October of this year. Yes, it took

486
00:46:32,031 --> 00:46:37,043
quite some time. So, um, we're excited to get that started because that makes up.

487
00:46:39,063 --> 00:46:46,009
Our staff's time So that's your biggest productivity improvement. Yeah, definitely.

488
00:46:48,029 --> 00:46:55,004
The other pieces we really would like to um upgrade the ERP system to a more user-friendly

489
00:46:55,004 --> 00:47:01,015
dashboard system that um would be so much easier for staff to use. But the one thing

490
00:47:01,017 --> 00:47:05,082
that would save us tons of time is that with an automated AP system, we wouldn't

491
00:47:05,082 --> 00:47:10,008
have these packets going around and getting signed. They'd be manually going based

492
00:47:10,008 --> 00:47:17,067
on our approval rules and we would no longer. Cut checks in-house. Um, the, the software

493
00:47:17,067 --> 00:47:21,047
company actually goes out and gets the routing information for all of our vendors

494
00:47:21,047 --> 00:47:27,027
and signs them up for, you know, an electronic payment. I signed, you know, 100+

495
00:47:27,027 --> 00:47:32,035
checks every 2 weeks and it's just, uh, the time that we run around looking for the

496
00:47:32,035 --> 00:47:37,003
right approvals and cutting checks and reporting to positive pay, it's just gonna

497
00:47:37,003 --> 00:47:43,095
be a huge time saver. But the delay in AP was as a result. Yes, they, they had it

498
00:47:43,095 --> 00:47:49,063
developed for their, uh, newer product which we have not transferred to yet and then

499
00:47:49,063 --> 00:47:54,099
they brought it back towards the, um, to our version and I guess in the early stages

500
00:47:54,099 --> 00:47:56,008
they ended up having some bugs that needed.

501
00:48:01,044 --> 00:48:09,007
OK, IT. One more question, do we think the um property tax fee

502
00:48:09,032 --> 00:48:13,043
number might change before the final or when the final comes out from the county,

503
00:48:13,045 --> 00:48:18,019
or, oh, the what they're going to charge us, it's a percentage. So right now it's

504
00:48:18,019 --> 00:48:22,038
based on the percentage of revenue they're processing is sitting for us. So if we

505
00:48:22,004 --> 00:48:28,072
do a temporary meal levy credit. But those fees are typically not negotiable. It's

506
00:48:28,072 --> 00:48:32,008
kind of, if the state charges the same amount, the town of mountain village charges

507
00:48:32,008 --> 00:48:38,066
the same amount. It, it's kind of a standard treasurer fee. That's, that was gonna

508
00:48:38,066 --> 00:48:43,078
be my question. Can you, uh, so you're, you're saying is that 2% fee is what we pay

509
00:48:43,078 --> 00:48:48,000
the county, what Telluride pays the county, what everyone pays the county to administer,

510
00:48:48,031 --> 00:48:54,033
um, property taxes, highway user tax, those sorts of things. Do you think, I mean,

511
00:48:54,087 --> 00:48:58,098
I guess my comment would be, you know, when, when property taxes double, their work

512
00:48:58,098 --> 00:49:03,082
doesn't double. So I think maybe collectively we could have a conversation with the

513
00:49:03,082 --> 00:49:08,004
county, I mean the town, all of the, all of the, all of the payers of that fee could

514
00:49:08,004 --> 00:49:12,023
have a discussion with the county and say, you know, what's, what's more reasonable.

515
00:49:16,001 --> 00:49:19,009
I mean, yeah, property taxes are up. Over

516
00:49:21,041 --> 00:49:22,075
Over $20 million.

517
00:49:25,029 --> 00:49:31,048
Last 5 years, so yeah, we, we definitely can reach out to the county about that.

518
00:49:31,073 --> 00:49:35,087
I think we should. I mean. They should be a team player.

519
00:49:39,064 --> 00:49:44,038
And, and we should do that in conjunction with all of the other payers like the telly

520
00:49:44,038 --> 00:49:46,011
ride and so forth. Yes.

521
00:49:50,002 --> 00:49:51,009
Sorry, I'm making a note.

522
00:49:53,012 --> 00:49:58,097
Is this like a staff to staff thing or pardon me. Would this be a staff to staff

523
00:49:58,097 --> 00:50:04,069
reach out or uh I think that that's the start of the process, um, and see, you know,

524
00:50:04,074 --> 00:50:09,073
we may need. To bring other people on, but I mean, at least to start the process,

525
00:50:09,082 --> 00:50:13,001
Michelle and I can reach out. Given the amount of money we're spending on affordable

526
00:50:13,001 --> 00:50:15,049
housing, I think it's the right thing to do.

527
00:50:18,094 --> 00:50:26,043
It Suka is on for IT. Some of the biggest changes in this department over the

528
00:50:26,043 --> 00:50:33,067
years, um, we have moved one employee from the, uh, planning department that did

529
00:50:33,067 --> 00:50:39,074
the GIS work because it's just, it's been a closer aligned position with the IT department

530
00:50:40,016 --> 00:50:47,062
and, um, our GIS administrator is also gonna be assisting IT on some of these AI,

531
00:50:47,076 --> 00:50:55,014
um. Exploration projects, I should say. So, those, that's a big cost. Another big

532
00:50:55,014 --> 00:50:59,049
cost increase and, and we saw this across the board is that the subscription fees

533
00:50:59,049 --> 00:51:06,069
with softwares and user licenses have gone up significantly. Um, the, the cybersecurity

534
00:51:06,071 --> 00:51:07,062
piece of it.

535
00:51:09,087 --> 00:51:16,055
And then there's also um a budget in there for as council has directed us to begin

536
00:51:16,075 --> 00:51:23,002
looking at um some AI systems and projects that will uh make the town staff more

537
00:51:23,002 --> 00:51:23,046
efficient.

538
00:51:28,058 --> 00:51:33,065
Uh, if, if you're ready for questions, Jim, um, can you, can you put in layman's

539
00:51:33,065 --> 00:51:37,044
terms what an AI audit is? I'm just trying to understand what it is.

540
00:51:39,063 --> 00:51:42,073
Should be cybersecurity audit that I.

541
00:51:44,082 --> 00:51:49,015
I mean, I, I have to say I'm a little, I'm, I'm a little uncomfortable with the size

542
00:51:49,015 --> 00:51:56,022
of these increases. Um, and I would Really like to understand.

543
00:51:57,016 --> 00:52:04,068
Better You know, why, you know, what, what we're getting for an extra roughly

544
00:52:04,068 --> 00:52:12,048
$140,000. Yeah, Scott, that's on the higher end. Um, that's if, if, let's say we

545
00:52:12,048 --> 00:52:19,093
have a robust engentic AI agent that takes off in a positive way for TMB and every,

546
00:52:20,037 --> 00:52:26,082
and we felt like we needed to apply that license to every User in the company, it

547
00:52:26,082 --> 00:52:34,043
would be a big number, but in reality I think we're going to find that probably

548
00:52:35,011 --> 00:52:42,014
directors, managers probably will use more of those value added subscriptions to

549
00:52:42,014 --> 00:52:50,012
help with their work agent or work assistants. So I, I have that bigger number out

550
00:52:50,018 --> 00:52:55,049
there because we still just, first of all, we don't have any AI policy or governance

551
00:52:55,049 --> 00:53:01,021
in place. And secondly, we aren't, we, we haven't really defined who gets what and

552
00:53:01,021 --> 00:53:08,085
why. And so, in October, I'm still mulling this over with LT and others, LT

553
00:53:08,085 --> 00:53:15,085
GIS about what we're gonna go with. Are we gonna go with prophecy gov? Are we gonna

554
00:53:15,085 --> 00:53:21,009
go with anthroptic agent at the desktop, you know, so that's why those big numbers

555
00:53:21,009 --> 00:53:28,081
are there, and I. I envision a much smaller number in adoption of

556
00:53:28,081 --> 00:53:34,086
people that actually use it. I'll add a little bit to that too, you know, we having

557
00:53:34,086 --> 00:53:42,074
a uh organization wide AA policy is kind of a big deal, um, and we have been holding

558
00:53:42,074 --> 00:53:50,069
off on that more robust discussion until our town manager is in place and with that.

559
00:53:51,036 --> 00:53:56,031
The technology is moving so rapidly as well and I've definitely seen in the private

560
00:53:56,031 --> 00:54:01,095
sector the implementation and embracing of the efficiencies is happening a lot more.

561
00:54:02,005 --> 00:54:08,069
Rapidly so it's a lot to get our arms around and um I don't know how it will look

562
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:15,047
and I'll just say side note that subscription based everything and the cost of everything

563
00:54:15,047 --> 00:54:23,003
software related seems to be escalating at rates that are hard to manage um. I get

564
00:54:23,003 --> 00:54:26,014
concerned about it and I think we see this in our personal lives too. It's like,

565
00:54:26,019 --> 00:54:29,026
oh yeah, sure, if you wanna do this now you just need a subscription and then you

566
00:54:29,026 --> 00:54:34,004
have no control of how those rates increase. Eileen, we've had this conversation

567
00:54:34,004 --> 00:54:40,009
before even in the medical industry, so, um, I think it's a really important conversation

568
00:54:40,009 --> 00:54:45,058
to have and I don't really know what those outcomes look like, um. But the other

569
00:54:45,058 --> 00:54:51,096
thing that we want to do is just make sure if, if we're moving in some kind of incremental

570
00:54:52,051 --> 00:54:59,044
AI direction, is there um organization-wide type of a fee versus individuals saying,

571
00:54:59,054 --> 00:55:04,053
well, I wanna do this or I wanna do that. You know, Jim has been trying to help um

572
00:55:04,053 --> 00:55:08,076
kind of herd the cats even around, well, let's use Teams and not Zoom, you know,

573
00:55:08,078 --> 00:55:13,093
Zoom is subscription based. So anyway, um, there's a lot to unpack there. You won't

574
00:55:13,093 --> 00:55:17,081
be able to unpack it all today, but just know that it's important and it'll be a

575
00:55:17,081 --> 00:55:24,097
pretty important 2027. Um, discussion and outcome and with budget implications and

576
00:55:24,097 --> 00:55:30,035
Scott to address your point about, um, you know, the concern in some of this growth

577
00:55:30,037 --> 00:55:35,044
and Jim's comment that he has kind of put in the high side of what he thinks it's

578
00:55:35,044 --> 00:55:41,088
costs, I mean we can always if council wants that level of control back those down

579
00:55:41,088 --> 00:55:46,016
and then when it's decided on the project that they go with come and explain it and

580
00:55:46,016 --> 00:55:52,089
ask for a supplemental appropriation. Um, I, to me it's just, uh, more of like wanting

581
00:55:52,089 --> 00:55:58,074
to know what's in the line items. That's, that's what it is. So, on, um, because

582
00:55:58,082 --> 00:56:06,044
if we could just like if 2 and 3. Um You know,

583
00:56:07,006 --> 00:56:13,037
so there's, there's actually, um, Jim does have a lot more, um, detail in some of

584
00:56:13,037 --> 00:56:17,081
these notes as to which project, which product and what they cost, but that probably

585
00:56:17,081 --> 00:56:23,075
is not a great tactic for us in negotiations to have that. What another vendor has

586
00:56:23,077 --> 00:56:30,012
given us as a quote published in this document, um, but I'm, you know, I don't know,

587
00:56:30,037 --> 00:56:35,044
Suca if maybe you would like to do a work session at an upcoming council meeting

588
00:56:35,044 --> 00:56:39,033
to kind of go into detail on some of these, but I think one of the ones like if you

589
00:56:39,033 --> 00:56:45,016
looked at Suca maybe you can tell them kind of what the cyber audits, cybersecurity

590
00:56:45,016 --> 00:56:52,024
audits are and you know, like in, in number 9, which went up significantly. Uh, this

591
00:56:52,024 --> 00:56:57,004
is our cybersecurity audit fees and it also includes the development of an AI policy

592
00:56:57,004 --> 00:57:04,096
and governance policy. Uh, yeah, so The big increase there is,

593
00:57:05,001 --> 00:57:11,047
and again, uh, Uh, we, we need with the town, the new town manager's help.

594
00:57:13,005 --> 00:57:19,096
What I'm seeing in the industry is we need to have an AI policy and governance. Uh,

595
00:57:20,019 --> 00:57:27,074
in place of, of how we're gonna teach people to use AI. What the policy is,

596
00:57:28,008 --> 00:57:36,006
and so that's a number coming from um are One of our law firms

597
00:57:36,006 --> 00:57:43,061
that we have on retainer for response situations like a ransomware attack or

598
00:57:44,011 --> 00:57:50,074
things of that nature. I mean, uh, with the, the new town manager's help, maybe that

599
00:57:50,074 --> 00:57:58,023
cost comes down because We can use Um Other

600
00:57:58,006 --> 00:58:03,074
consultants for the policy and governance and how do you actually implement that.

601
00:58:04,054 --> 00:58:12,021
Into, uh, staff, you know, so that's the biggest increase for that line item. And

602
00:58:12,021 --> 00:58:18,037
then as far as penetration testing and things of that nature, those are just ongoing

603
00:58:18,037 --> 00:58:25,091
recurring costs that CSA requires that we do different types of internal testing

604
00:58:25,091 --> 00:58:33,061
to ensure that our networks are meeting. Their requirements or working towards their

605
00:58:33,061 --> 00:58:40,095
requirements, Cera being our insurer. Yeah, but I have some, uh, some notes,

606
00:58:41,013 --> 00:58:48,057
um. I'm, I'm not sure. I guess I have, I have, um, I have a, an, the approach. First

607
00:58:48,057 --> 00:58:53,037
of all, I'm, I, I'm not sure we should budget, you know, $75,000 to pay a law firm

608
00:58:53,037 --> 00:58:59,025
to write a policy for us at this point. I'd rather have the new town manager with

609
00:58:59,025 --> 00:59:05,008
Jim and the rest of the team. Figure out how we want to approach it, understand different

610
00:59:05,008 --> 00:59:10,004
options we have, and then if we need a supplemental for that, that's OK. Um, in terms

611
00:59:10,004 --> 00:59:17,052
of the actual AI like token budget, um, I really do want to encourage people

612
00:59:17,052 --> 00:59:24,075
to experiment, etc. Um, at some point though, you know,

613
00:59:25,061 --> 00:59:31,027
once we sort of get people using it, we understand how they're using it. You know,

614
00:59:31,036 --> 00:59:39,003
then we need to compare. What we're spending with what we're getting and that and

615
00:59:39,003 --> 00:59:42,079
what we're getting could be that we're delivering better service to our town. It

616
00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:49,027
could be that we're, um, you know, saving, uh, people time which allows them to focus

617
00:59:49,027 --> 00:59:54,014
on more important things. It could, it could mean that we don't need as many headcount.

618
00:59:54,048 --> 00:59:58,079
Um, there's a lot of potential benefits, not all related to headcount reduction,

619
00:59:58,084 --> 01:00:05,019
but I do think there needs to be. You You know, once we sort of get through an initial

620
01:00:05,029 --> 01:00:09,091
period of experimentation, there needs to be a discussion about the cost versus the

621
01:00:09,091 --> 01:00:15,098
benefits. So if I'm hearing the direction correctly, we need to go back and revise

622
01:00:15,098 --> 01:00:20,073
these numbers down. And then with the understanding that Jim and the town manage

623
01:00:20,073 --> 01:00:24,063
the new town manager will work to define the program a little clearer and we'll come

624
01:00:24,063 --> 01:00:30,047
back for um supplemental appropriations so we are, we won't be revising down the

625
01:00:30,047 --> 01:00:35,039
actual subscription costs and such but uh the AI implementation and some of this

626
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:39,083
other, some of these other costs until we have a better idea of what is gonna work

627
01:00:39,083 --> 01:00:44,082
for the town. Mhm. I, I, I think we're, we might be. Comingling a set of different

628
01:00:44,084 --> 01:00:50,005
subjects. I mean, I, the cybersecurity audit, I get the need for that, right? The

629
01:00:50,005 --> 01:00:56,003
AI policy, I, uh, I agree we don't need to hire a fancy law firm. We could probably

630
01:00:56,003 --> 01:01:03,007
use AI to come up with it pretty quickly. Um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm kidding, um, but that's

631
01:01:03,008 --> 01:01:08,023
a focus kind of internally a fair amount, but we also need the policy to have a point

632
01:01:08,023 --> 01:01:13,098
of view. About our external facing. We talked about paper vision, for example, potentially

633
01:01:13,098 --> 01:01:19,077
being a database that a constituent could query. I would hope we would have an AI

634
01:01:19,077 --> 01:01:24,061
capability so a constituent could say something like, you know, summarize everything

635
01:01:24,061 --> 01:01:29,049
that's been discussed about uh the new medical center, um, and they get a nice usable

636
01:01:29,049 --> 01:01:37,001
output. I hope that's where we can go, um, at least that's one guy's opinion. I definitely,

637
01:01:37,002 --> 01:01:42,043
I, I think that it makes sense to maybe further define the project because I know

638
01:01:42,043 --> 01:01:46,007
Jim, you feel like there's a lot up in the air right now without the town manager

639
01:01:46,007 --> 01:01:52,054
in. Um, the other thing, yeah, Dan, the other piece of that policy like writing the

640
01:01:52,056 --> 01:01:58,045
policy, yeah, we can do that. We already have kind of a policy. It's the governance

641
01:01:58,045 --> 01:02:06,006
and subscription behind that potential subscription to be able to control. Whatever

642
01:02:06,093 --> 01:02:14,071
level of AI that we're using, whether that's chat, agentic, or agent level type of

643
01:02:15,013 --> 01:02:19,064
AI services, it's the governance and be able to control that within the ecosystem

644
01:02:19,064 --> 01:02:24,082
that that's where the gotcha cost is probably going to come from. Um, just wanted

645
01:02:24,082 --> 01:02:29,047
to make sure that everyone is aware there's policy and then there's governance and

646
01:02:30,003 --> 01:02:37,087
being able to actually Block and log and understand. What happened if and when

647
01:02:37,087 --> 01:02:41,079
something does happen, that's, that's the piece that I think is gonna get expensive.

648
01:02:42,022 --> 01:02:47,003
Well, and if I heard Scott right and Scott, please don't let me put words in your

649
01:02:47,003 --> 01:02:53,003
mouth, but once we have an AI policy and then we have use cases, uh, that are internal

650
01:02:53,036 --> 01:02:58,002
and external facing, we can determine who should have access and who should have

651
01:02:58,048 --> 01:03:04,027
the subscription because yes, that's kind of. Fee structures can pile up, but I don't

652
01:03:04,027 --> 01:03:09,077
even know all the internal use cases that we're talking about here yet, presumably,

653
01:03:09,092 --> 01:03:16,055
I bet you do, Jim, but um that to me should drive who gets access and how much uh

654
01:03:16,055 --> 01:03:23,035
we're gonna spend that. A top-down number Right, I mean, I, I, I just don't wanna

655
01:03:23,035 --> 01:03:29,075
skimp on this AI policy because I mean, I use it a lot and you can link it to your

656
01:03:29,075 --> 01:03:35,004
email, you can link it to your bank accounts, and you can, I mean, I think we need

657
01:03:35,006 --> 01:03:41,009
some real clear guidance if you're gonna be using AI here, here are the firewalls

658
01:03:41,009 --> 01:03:47,029
that need to be set and Is it, cause Claude will come out and say, do you wanna link

659
01:03:47,029 --> 01:03:53,047
your thing to this? And you know, it's almost addictive, right? And so I think we

660
01:03:53,047 --> 01:03:53,097
just

661
01:03:56,061 --> 01:04:02,004
Yes, Pete, Pete, you're correct. We need to have very strict rules. For example,

662
01:04:02,041 --> 01:04:07,002
if you're going through the agentic automation piece is what you're referring to,

663
01:04:07,057 --> 01:04:14,013
that there's a stop period where stop in human interpretation and approval required,

664
01:04:14,025 --> 01:04:20,017
and that's aligned. Uh, within the AI systems of automation that we're all talking

665
01:04:20,017 --> 01:04:23,013
about here, um. You know

666
01:04:25,046 --> 01:04:31,028
Does, um, does Cera have Jim, does Cera have guidance on this yet? Because for example,

667
01:04:31,042 --> 01:04:36,028
you know, if a town employee said, oh, I wanna use, uh, I'll, I'll launch an agent

668
01:04:36,028 --> 01:04:42,073
to, I don't know, find all these policies or look for something and then that agent

669
01:04:42,073 --> 01:04:49,081
sort of goes crazy and causes harm, um, presumably if we were sued because of it

670
01:04:49,081 --> 01:04:54,088
was our employee who launched that agent and then we would turn to Cera. Do they

671
01:04:54,088 --> 01:05:00,006
have um I, I mean, is this covered by the Colorado government all Immunities Act,

672
01:05:00,011 --> 01:05:05,098
for example, if we launch an agent and it goes bananas. That's a great question,

673
01:05:06,035 --> 01:05:12,038
Elizabeth. Do you have any insight? I don't. No, I do not, but that's, I can put

674
01:05:12,038 --> 01:05:20,037
you in contact with somebody, Suga, that speaks your language. Yeah. So Elizabeth,

675
01:05:20,042 --> 01:05:26,036
I think you captured the direction, but also like. Note 6 it's very clear what we're

676
01:05:26,036 --> 01:05:31,006
purchasing with that money. Note the other notes are not. So in the next version,

677
01:05:31,065 --> 01:05:36,052
if we can just get very clearly, it doesn't have to be we're spending this much money

678
01:05:36,052 --> 01:05:42,004
on this contract, but specifically what are we purchasing? So basically it's notes

679
01:05:42,004 --> 01:05:49,056
3 and 4 and 9. 2 Oh, that's uh

680
01:05:49,096 --> 01:05:56,009
the Microsoft engineering support soup up. That's just a subscription, right? You

681
01:05:56,009 --> 01:06:03,086
have that in the engineering team. It's also a small number, yeah. OK. Um, but

682
01:06:03,086 --> 01:06:11,022
Elaine, like, basically, what, what I would like, uh, is to start small. So, you

683
01:06:11,022 --> 01:06:18,065
know, we're in a pilot program, um, and then also, uh, bringing, um, some

684
01:06:19,011 --> 01:06:24,058
automation tools, whether that's through Microsoft or Anthropic or OpenAI to the

685
01:06:24,058 --> 01:06:30,068
actual desktop that helps facilitate, like Scott was saying earlier. Efficiency in

686
01:06:30,068 --> 01:06:36,024
your workplace, like helping you summarize or look for documents within your, your

687
01:06:36,024 --> 01:06:43,029
world and um. You know, things along those lines. So perhaps at the director level

688
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:50,074
and manager level where we have more of an engentic co-pilot running that really

689
01:06:50,074 --> 01:06:54,065
helps that person get through their day, organize their day, look through the week

690
01:06:54,065 --> 01:07:02,021
and things of that nature is how I see 2027 with, you know, a policy and governance

691
01:07:02,021 --> 01:07:10,018
behind that, and then we grow from there, see. Um, what else is available? OK. I,

692
01:07:10,034 --> 01:07:15,012
I will take the note that we will just further define some of these notes and I think,

693
01:07:15,046 --> 01:07:22,012
um, and we'll look at scaling some of this back until we have a, a more, a firm program

694
01:07:22,012 --> 01:07:28,097
which may mean coming in 2027 with the supplemental ask. Mhm. Great. Anything else

695
01:07:28,099 --> 01:07:29,058
on IT?

696
01:07:33,082 --> 01:07:41,011
Let's move on to the capital plan. Did, did we skip over HR or did, did I dismiss

697
01:07:41,011 --> 01:07:47,065
it? Lindsay was up here. OK. OK. Great.

698
01:07:49,012 --> 01:07:55,001
I, I didn't have any comments on it. I just, uh, it went so fast that I I didn't

699
01:07:55,001 --> 01:08:03,000
notice it. I saw Lindsay, but I OK. Excellent. So this is the 10-year capital

700
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,008
plan. There's, you know, there's several things out there that in the future the

701
01:08:06,008 --> 01:08:12,076
town council may direct us to do. Um, oh, there you go, there's the support team.

702
01:08:13,053 --> 01:08:20,018
Um, the main people with items on this list are obviously Scott Prittinger, Loby,

703
01:08:20,076 --> 01:08:26,067
Chief, and, um, Sukup, and so he's gonna stay on for just a few minutes. Um, next

704
01:08:26,067 --> 01:08:30,075
year's big projects we've talked about in the general fund, the beach Snow Melt,

705
01:08:30,081 --> 01:08:37,079
if we can get to, um, a TMVOA funding agreement for that, um, will happen. Trails

706
01:08:37,079 --> 01:08:45,039
work. And then Scott has in the budget, um, you'll see under pedestrian safety improvements,

707
01:08:45,041 --> 01:08:48,068
we have these several years out with potential grant funding and that is some of

708
01:08:48,068 --> 01:08:54,096
the road widening in the area and um sidewalks in some areas to keep the pedestrians

709
01:08:54,096 --> 01:09:01,008
safe. Um, those will also be changing as we move forward, um, and hopefully we are

710
01:09:01,008 --> 01:09:06,007
able to access grant funding, but Um, those will be Decisions of council in the coming

711
01:09:06,007 --> 01:09:13,021
years. So General fund, I don't think you should see any big surprises, but we can

712
01:09:13,021 --> 01:09:17,065
talk through if you have any questions on those items or feel something large is

713
01:09:17,065 --> 01:09:18,005
missing.

714
01:09:20,035 --> 01:09:25,001
I, I had 11 comment. Oh sorry, go ahead, Elaine, before you jump in and just thank

715
01:09:25,001 --> 01:09:30,098
the team, um, all of the great work on trails and how activated the trails have been,

716
01:09:31,003 --> 01:09:37,078
and it's been really nice to see so much use, um, and so great work to the team on

717
01:09:37,078 --> 01:09:39,082
what's happened in the last year. I wanted to say.

718
01:09:42,074 --> 01:09:48,006
Yes, they are very successful. Yeah, adding, adding my thanks. I'm super excited

719
01:09:48,006 --> 01:09:55,099
about, about that. Um, in the trails improvements, there's $600,000 going out,

720
01:09:56,019 --> 01:10:03,063
uh, every year in the long term plan, and I, I just wanted to get council's sense,

721
01:10:03,071 --> 01:10:11,001
um, of whether you support a, a, a general vision or goal

722
01:10:11,047 --> 01:10:19,037
that. We seek to have crushed gravel, uh, walking trails alongside every

723
01:10:19,006 --> 01:10:24,074
major road. And obviously this isn't something that is going to happen next year

724
01:10:24,074 --> 01:10:30,082
or even completely in the next 5 years, but I'm hoping that we have a sense of the

725
01:10:30,082 --> 01:10:36,014
council that that's where we want to go so that every year with with at least some

726
01:10:36,014 --> 01:10:41,042
of this trails money we can be chipping away at that and I'll look back, you know,

727
01:10:41,055 --> 01:10:47,047
in. In 10 or 20 years and, and be really proud that, you know, the, the model that

728
01:10:47,047 --> 01:10:52,067
Jim's team has set for Mountain Village Boulevard, um, maybe it's not quite that

729
01:10:52,067 --> 01:10:59,035
elaborate, but that we have safe, beautiful, you know, walking and I guess, uh, biking

730
01:10:59,035 --> 01:11:02,002
trails, um, along all of our roads.

731
01:11:05,068 --> 01:11:10,051
And I, I would like to say that if that is, if that is, you know, I know that everybody's

732
01:11:10,051 --> 01:11:16,097
looking into that and that is the preferred. Solution, there would be money from

733
01:11:16,099 --> 01:11:22,042
these pedestrian safety improvements that could be then allocated to these paths

734
01:11:22,042 --> 01:11:30,033
instead. I'll just chime in, Scott. I think we just have to acknowledge that pedestrians

735
01:11:30,033 --> 01:11:38,026
walk along every major road. If it's a major road like Adams Ranch or the

736
01:11:38,026 --> 01:11:42,069
roads that get you from point A to B, they're always walking along the road. We just

737
01:11:42,069 --> 01:11:49,034
have to acknowledge that. Well, and I, I'm highly supportive of what you're saying,

738
01:11:49,054 --> 01:11:54,000
Scott, because to your point, Harvey, I can't count the times you turn the corner

739
01:11:54,026 --> 01:11:58,005
and you're face to face with a couple and their dog in a stroller in the middle of

740
01:11:58,005 --> 01:12:04,065
the road. Um, and so I would love to get them. Off our roads and which roads I defer

741
01:12:04,065 --> 01:12:08,076
to you guys, um, but we kind of all know, um, I mean, Mountain Village Boulevard,

742
01:12:08,086 --> 01:12:15,094
Adams Ranch. Maybe Russell, um, and then obviously up, up the, um, touchdown and

743
01:12:15,094 --> 01:12:21,002
all that stuff. But I'm highly supportive, Scott, and 600, we're talking about 27

744
01:12:21,002 --> 01:12:25,094
here, but it's nice to have a placeholder in and the reality is 600,000 a year over

745
01:12:25,094 --> 01:12:32,006
time is a declining purchasing power. So in effect, it's uh reducing budget, but

746
01:12:32,006 --> 01:12:38,002
it's a noticeable one. It's more, it's more than that. It's, it's the safety plus

747
01:12:38,022 --> 01:12:44,073
the 3 million a year in the outer years. I mean, I, I'm generally supportive. It's

748
01:12:44,092 --> 01:12:49,009
all your public pedestrian safety improvements. Yeah, I was just looking at the trail

749
01:12:49,009 --> 01:12:54,049
improvement number. Yeah, that's, that's more just expanding a little bit of what

750
01:12:54,049 --> 01:12:59,004
we have and maintaining it, right. Whereas the big expansion that Scott is talking

751
01:12:59,004 --> 01:13:04,072
about, I think is a few years out and getting into the big dollars. I mean, you know,

752
01:13:04,081 --> 01:13:10,062
I, I live near Double Eagle, you know, that big turn there is, it's dangerous. So,

753
01:13:10,065 --> 01:13:15,081
I mean, I'd like to see it more of a prioritization. How, how we would spend this

754
01:13:15,083 --> 01:13:23,023
money. I mean, I'm, I'm fiscally conservative. When I look at, you know,

755
01:13:23,007 --> 01:13:30,096
the chairs, lift 7, water main replacement, and what we're spending on, on affordable

756
01:13:30,096 --> 01:13:38,057
housing. Talking about a parking garage, you know, it starts to add up to 100 100

757
01:13:38,057 --> 01:13:46,013
million. You know, and it's, it's a lot of money and I, I'm just not sure.

758
01:13:48,008 --> 01:13:55,023
Afford all this in a reasonable time frame, but. Um Yeah, I think we just have to

759
01:13:55,023 --> 01:13:59,063
set some priorities. And you'll have to look at this every year and decide which

760
01:13:59,063 --> 01:14:04,031
projects are moving forward. This is basically just to kind of give you an idea of

761
01:14:04,031 --> 01:14:09,079
what's on the radar, but council still has the ability annually to say we want to

762
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:14,039
appropriate for this and not this. Yeah, a lot of it depends on how's our, our working

763
01:14:14,039 --> 01:14:18,063
relationship with TMBOA. They're, they're going to be coming into an inordinate amount

764
01:14:18,063 --> 01:14:24,041
of money. And I think getting them to buy into some of these safety improvements

765
01:14:24,041 --> 01:14:29,037
is gonna be critical to implementing some of these concepts. And the indication in

766
01:14:29,037 --> 01:14:34,064
some of the discussions we've had already is that they're um far more interested

767
01:14:34,066 --> 01:14:40,077
in contributing to these crushed granite paths like like mountain village. Boulevard

768
01:14:40,095 --> 01:14:45,059
than they are to actually road widening or sidewalks and I, and you know if you can,

769
01:14:45,061 --> 01:14:49,043
if you get through and you can do all of these crushed granite paths, you don't need

770
01:14:49,077 --> 01:14:54,064
the road widening or the sidewalks. So it's just kind of over time what sort of funding

771
01:14:54,064 --> 01:15:01,064
can we get from external sources and move forward. And to your point, Pete TMBwe

772
01:15:01,066 --> 01:15:05,054
talks a lot about participation in some of these larger projects, and I think once

773
01:15:05,054 --> 01:15:10,065
our budget's adopted, it'd be nice to review our capital plan with them so they can

774
01:15:10,065 --> 01:15:17,028
kind of begin thinking about those projects that they wanna, um, jointly fund. I

775
01:15:17,028 --> 01:15:21,012
was gonna say and, and that was gonna be my comment as well, but is there a way to

776
01:15:21,012 --> 01:15:26,028
negotiate or have a conversation once we have a capital plan to talk about a multi-year

777
01:15:26,028 --> 01:15:31,048
agreement with TMVOA so that that trails can, can do some advanced planning instead

778
01:15:31,048 --> 01:15:35,044
of going year to year to year because I, I think it's more meaningful when you know

779
01:15:35,044 --> 01:15:41,004
what you're doing for the next 2345 years. That would be very beneficial to staff

780
01:15:41,022 --> 01:15:47,069
is to know what interest in the long run. They're willing to fund and you know, because

781
01:15:47,069 --> 01:15:52,049
you can't, you know, we, we tell Lobi that he, he's been approved for something in

782
01:15:52,049 --> 01:15:57,021
a year and going out and getting a design engineered in time to get a contractor

783
01:15:57,021 --> 01:16:01,092
and go through the RFP process typically doesn't happen and be great to have that

784
01:16:01,092 --> 01:16:05,046
commitment in advance so you can continue to work on.

785
01:16:09,013 --> 01:16:09,049
Good head

786
01:16:13,039 --> 01:16:19,034
I mean, are we at the point where So you, you run, Lobbie, you run the gondola, you

787
01:16:19,034 --> 01:16:27,012
do parks and recs, you do trails. I mean, if we're gonna really. Develop a

788
01:16:27,018 --> 01:16:34,091
robust plan. Do we need Do we need to break up some of them? This is one question.

789
01:16:35,023 --> 01:16:39,078
We've had internal conversations about how that looks in the future, so we're trying

790
01:16:39,078 --> 01:16:45,007
to work through that. Don't forget parking. Oh, parking. 10% of my salary, 90% of

791
01:16:45,007 --> 01:16:52,052
my headache, so. But, but no, Pete, that um we've started

792
01:16:52,052 --> 01:16:58,002
internally having those conversations because if you're developing this big trails

793
01:16:58,002 --> 01:17:01,004
project and we're really committing to do it every year and then on top of that we

794
01:17:01,004 --> 01:17:05,087
have the new gondola that we'll be spending so much time in parking about having

795
01:17:06,053 --> 01:17:14,009
structuring it to where There's a lot more support in that area. What on those

796
01:17:14,009 --> 01:17:18,077
pedestrian improvements, the majority of the almost 22 million is kind of out in

797
01:17:18,077 --> 01:17:26,007
the future, 3 years 31 through 35 with, with a 2.3 million kicker next year.

798
01:17:26,082 --> 01:17:31,069
But why the because it's aligned with the paving schedule, so you get a much better

799
01:17:31,069 --> 01:17:36,073
deal when the road that is, um, the widening will occur on is scheduled to be paved

800
01:17:36,073 --> 01:17:41,097
that year as opposed to going in and widening and then paving, but we set the paving

801
01:17:41,097 --> 01:17:47,007
schedule. Correct. So was the tail wagging the dog here? Well, you don't wanna necessarily

802
01:17:47,007 --> 01:17:53,014
spend money repaving a road years before it needs to be done because there's actually

803
01:17:53,014 --> 01:17:57,098
other roads in between these years like in 29 and 30 that we're doing the paving

804
01:17:57,098 --> 01:18:01,074
on that needs to be done in those years. So that's why they wouldn't have one of

805
01:18:01,074 --> 01:18:07,084
these. Crushed gravel paths next to them. Well, we don't know what's gonna have crushed

806
01:18:07,084 --> 01:18:13,006
gravel paths at that point, at this point. So, you know, if, if the crushed gravel

807
01:18:13,006 --> 01:18:19,007
can be done on one of these roads, you could do that before the paving. It's just

808
01:18:19,009 --> 01:18:22,008
if you have to go with the paving and the widening, you need to line that up with

809
01:18:22,008 --> 01:18:29,054
your paving schedule. Yeah, and, and I, I guess, sorry. Go ahead. Well, it's gonna

810
01:18:29,054 --> 01:18:34,079
just say the pedestrian improvements, those are primarily out of Road, double evil.

811
01:18:36,039 --> 01:18:40,081
Like those are our primary arteries that we don't necessarily have great ways of

812
01:18:41,027 --> 01:18:45,074
getting the people in and out because of all the public or all the private property

813
01:18:45,074 --> 01:18:49,021
there so not necessarily getting work trail.

814
01:18:52,078 --> 01:18:54,027
There's a lot of

815
01:18:58,034 --> 01:19:05,005
Uh, a lot of, uh, extra structural work that needs to be done to So, uh, right away.

816
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,047
So OK. That's where

817
01:19:15,019 --> 01:19:21,044
Trails are by far away. Less expensive and if we can get. People moving where they

818
01:19:21,044 --> 01:19:25,016
need to move without doing those road blindness projects makes it easier for us.

819
01:19:26,018 --> 01:19:30,033
But the way our paving schedule is set up is we had a paving assessment done this

820
01:19:30,033 --> 01:19:35,046
last spring, so everything's kind of lined out based on, you know, values.

821
01:19:39,092 --> 01:19:44,078
Scott, how is the San Joaquin or Jim and Scott, how is the San Joaquin widening?

822
01:19:45,016 --> 01:19:50,035
Has it been effective? Do you think it's, it works? We're getting mixed reviews on

823
01:19:50,035 --> 01:19:55,075
it and that, you know, we widened the road by like 16 ft, but now the cars like to

824
01:19:55,075 --> 01:20:00,001
use all that additional width we put in. It probably would have been more effective

825
01:20:00,001 --> 01:20:05,047
to make a wider road with some kind of traffic calming. Traffic calming, uh, things

826
01:20:05,047 --> 01:20:09,055
like, you know, rumble strips on the shoulder, just a little bit more delineation.

827
01:20:09,084 --> 01:20:13,018
You know, we're getting some public feedback. But yeah, widening the road is great,

828
01:20:13,032 --> 01:20:20,007
but It doesn't necessarily remove the conflict between pedestrians, bikes, and automobiles.

829
01:20:20,012 --> 01:20:25,007
They'd like to see more. You know, mountain village boulevard type side paths that

830
01:20:25,007 --> 01:20:30,001
aren't attached to the roadway. That's really tough. Our roads are built to county

831
01:20:30,001 --> 01:20:35,001
spec, driveways are already in hundreds and hundreds of driveways, modifying roads

832
01:20:35,001 --> 01:20:39,042
to widen them, to, to even, we have no room in our right of way to build these trails.

833
01:20:39,055 --> 01:20:44,085
We don't really have the You know, complete corridors from one end of Adam's Ranch

834
01:20:44,085 --> 01:20:48,057
to the other without going through open space, private property, whatever it may

835
01:20:48,057 --> 01:20:53,024
be to get a, a full side path, whether it's, you know, crushed granite or whatever

836
01:20:53,024 --> 01:20:57,002
it is. So it's tough to build these things and the best way to do it is in the right

837
01:20:57,002 --> 01:21:03,004
way and extending, you know, widening the. Paved surface. We just did Double Eagle.

838
01:21:03,008 --> 01:21:07,091
We did the engineering on Double Eagle to widen it to have an uphill climbing for

839
01:21:07,091 --> 01:21:12,007
bikes, bidirectional pedestrians, and it'd be on the uphill side of Double Eagle

840
01:21:12,007 --> 01:21:17,075
from Adams Ranch up to Russell Road. And I mean, it, it's gonna be, it's gonna almost

841
01:21:17,075 --> 01:21:21,055
triple the price of the project compared to just a standard resurfacing. So we have

842
01:21:21,055 --> 01:21:25,075
to build a lot of retaining walls, we have to do redo the drainage, we have to accommodate

843
01:21:25,075 --> 01:21:30,017
for driveways. It's just These projects are really expensive and we go looking at

844
01:21:30,017 --> 01:21:33,059
doing these, and we just don't have the real estate to do them. I think that's kind

845
01:21:33,059 --> 01:21:38,045
of the moral of the story is we have to work with what, with what's there. The road

846
01:21:38,045 --> 01:21:43,023
right away is only so wide, and, you know, most of the stuff we have already is on

847
01:21:43,023 --> 01:21:47,017
TSG open space for which we have a license agreement. So, a lot of these things are

848
01:21:47,017 --> 01:21:52,069
tough to build to begin with. So, if we do a gravel path or a granite path, whatever

849
01:21:52,069 --> 01:21:58,007
it is, crushed granite. Can you use part of the general easement or is that absolutely?

850
01:21:58,012 --> 01:22:02,047
Well, if the lot has a GE assigned to it, not all lots of mountain villages have

851
01:22:02,047 --> 01:22:06,062
GEs. But like the first one coming up here, I think we're looking at two right now.

852
01:22:06,072 --> 01:22:14,059
Uh, Benchmark from uh boulevard up to Hang Glider, uh, on, it would, and just because

853
01:22:14,059 --> 01:22:19,038
it makes sense for drainage and other things, it would be on the downhill side. And

854
01:22:19,046 --> 01:22:23,019
we'd be doing, you know, until benchmark gets widened in the paving plan, we'd be

855
01:22:23,019 --> 01:22:27,063
doing a crushed granite extension of the shoulder. Another one we really wanna hit

856
01:22:27,063 --> 01:22:34,031
is Russell Road from the boulevard to, uh, to Double Eagle on the, let's just call

857
01:22:34,031 --> 01:22:38,018
it the north side of Russell at that point. We wanna You know, it's, we did it a

858
01:22:38,018 --> 01:22:42,005
long time ago. We didn't really do it very structurally. We just kind of went in,

859
01:22:42,019 --> 01:22:46,001
widen the shoulder with, with some fines and, and called it good. Now the weeds have

860
01:22:46,001 --> 01:22:50,003
grown up, you can't really even see that we did it. Uh, people don't use it because

861
01:22:50,003 --> 01:22:56,006
it's just kind of eroded over time. Um. And you know, that that's another high priority

862
01:22:56,006 --> 01:23:00,057
place where there are a lot of pedestrians. So we can widen that thing out 8 ft from,

863
01:23:00,065 --> 01:23:04,008
from Double Eagle up to Russell. And then on super low traffic roads, like let's

864
01:23:04,008 --> 01:23:09,064
say Lawson Overlook from, from Adam's Ranch all the way to the cul-de-sac down to

865
01:23:09,064 --> 01:23:16,016
Lawson Hill. And then, uh, let's say Russell from Double Eagle out to the cul-de-sac

866
01:23:16,016 --> 01:23:21,002
at the end of Double at the end of Russell, going to something like advisory shoulders,

867
01:23:21,025 --> 01:23:26,048
which is basically, you know, you, you stripe in 2 6 8 ft bike lanes and you have

868
01:23:26,048 --> 01:23:31,055
one travel lane and the cars can, because there's such low traffic roads, the cars.

869
01:23:32,028 --> 01:23:36,075
Can go into the into the bike lane. So we're looking at new surface treatments on

870
01:23:36,075 --> 01:23:41,042
places like that, and that's a super easy, cheap way to do it, but also to find safe

871
01:23:41,044 --> 01:23:46,083
lanes of travel, bikes, pets. So these are, I guess, I guess what I'm, oh sorry,

872
01:23:46,092 --> 01:23:48,055
go ahead. No, no, I'm, I'm done, Scott.

873
01:23:51,017 --> 01:23:58,087
Oh, I guess what I'm um thinking on the crushed gravel is we do it. Um,

874
01:23:59,014 --> 01:24:06,033
where we can. And, um, you know, if, if there's a stretch where it's super expensive

875
01:24:06,033 --> 01:24:11,076
or we don't have the right of way, then, you know, we defer that to a later date

876
01:24:11,076 --> 01:24:19,069
when we figure it out, but there's a lot of low hanging fruit. Um, and I I, I

877
01:24:19,069 --> 01:24:26,014
would hope that we We accommodate pedestrians through segregated crushed gravel paths

878
01:24:26,014 --> 01:24:30,078
rather than asking them to walk on the pavement and be protected, you know, just

879
01:24:30,078 --> 01:24:32,026
by a stripe on the pavement.

880
01:24:36,008 --> 01:24:41,049
I mean, like double eagle, you, you can go up along the golf course. There's quite

881
01:24:41,049 --> 01:24:47,052
a bit of room there where you could do crushed gravel. Same thing with Russell. Gone

882
01:24:47,052 --> 01:24:54,082
along a whole Or 13. Yeah, that's exactly what we're talking about. We, we have

883
01:24:55,015 --> 01:25:00,035
rustle on the north side between Double Eagle and the boulevard. There's a lot of

884
01:25:00,035 --> 01:25:05,065
space there to clean it up, get rid of the weeds, and lay down. South side. I'm sorry,

885
01:25:05,099 --> 01:25:13,041
South Side. North side Because the golf course is on the south side, right, but we

886
01:25:13,041 --> 01:25:19,056
already built, we already built a pedestrian. Right away out of crushed, you know,

887
01:25:19,061 --> 01:25:24,003
out of, out of crusher finds years and years ago, and it's, it's since grown in,

888
01:25:24,073 --> 01:25:28,002
but that'll get you and, and it's wide. We've got a lot of room to work with on that

889
01:25:28,002 --> 01:25:32,008
side, and the drainage issues aren't as bad when you look at the golf course side

890
01:25:32,008 --> 01:25:37,052
with cart path kind of hoops in right there by a whole 314 green, you know, there's

891
01:25:37,052 --> 01:25:41,093
a lot of drainage issues. There's just as many driveways on the south side as there

892
01:25:41,093 --> 01:25:45,047
are on the north side, but you know that that's the easiest one we can hit like.

893
01:25:46,041 --> 01:25:53,072
Soon, you know, um. And then Double Eagle, we're looking at some, you know,

894
01:25:54,034 --> 01:25:59,098
really meaningful improvements on Double Eagle with retaining walls, all new drainage,

895
01:26:00,001 --> 01:26:05,023
uh, smoothing out the curves a little bit, and, and doing a paved shoulder there.

896
01:26:05,074 --> 01:26:12,054
So. I'm not sure if that made it into the budget for next year, but 2028, 28.

897
01:26:15,055 --> 01:26:19,098
But I think, you know, you, you essentially created a vision for us with the beautiful

898
01:26:19,098 --> 01:26:25,011
job that was done on Mountain Village Boulevard. So, I think we're all in love with

899
01:26:25,011 --> 01:26:30,052
it and wanna see it everywhere. And what are the mountain village improvement, Mountain

900
01:26:30,052 --> 01:26:36,004
Village Boulevard improvements for 27? There are none that that was the last phase.

901
01:26:36,068 --> 01:26:43,058
So under um. Uh, under the bridge there, we're not gonna do that next year.

902
01:26:46,077 --> 01:26:47,071
On Bill's bypass.

903
01:26:49,097 --> 01:26:56,016
Oh yeah. Oh, sidewalk improvements. So, so with all the west phase is done from the

904
01:26:56,016 --> 01:27:02,048
market to Highway 145, we have a ton of improvements. Planned, engineered, ready

905
01:27:02,048 --> 01:27:09,004
to go, just not funded yet to go from the, from here to Blue Mesa. Basically, we're,

906
01:27:09,017 --> 01:27:14,032
you know, we've got some stuff in the CIP for heating the sidewalk between here and

907
01:27:14,032 --> 01:27:18,000
basically the Prospect Pedestrian Bridge because of all the slips, trips and falls

908
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:23,065
we've had on that section. It's, it's very, it's a tough section between, you know,

909
01:27:23,069 --> 01:27:26,088
just right out here past the bridge all the way down to Mountain Lodge. It's kind

910
01:27:26,088 --> 01:27:31,004
of off camera, it gets a lot of ice and this. It's really only a problem in February,

911
01:27:31,049 --> 01:27:38,048
March, April, but it's bad news in that zone there. We're looking at realigning.

912
01:27:38,093 --> 01:27:44,022
We've got shovel ready plans to realign from the Prospect Creek Bridge to Fisher

913
01:27:44,044 --> 01:27:48,072
underneath Village Bypass ski bridge and so people don't have to walk across the

914
01:27:48,072 --> 01:27:54,007
ski run. We've got fully engineered plans ready to build, so we're on the As you're

915
01:27:54,007 --> 01:27:59,065
heading into the core from uh Fisher to Aspen Ridge and from Etra, Montana there,

916
01:27:59,088 --> 01:28:04,015
that's gonna require like an 80-foot pedestrian bridge over Lost Creek. You know,

917
01:28:04,024 --> 01:28:08,022
so we've got, we've got a lot of projects in the hopper ready to go through that

918
01:28:08,024 --> 01:28:12,051
corridor. And it's also the main connector between the parking garage and the core,

919
01:28:12,056 --> 01:28:15,071
and you see a lot of bikes riding on it. And we'd love to be able to at some point

920
01:28:15,071 --> 01:28:20,099
in time, save Mountain, the boulevard trail just for pedestrians and then widen shoulders

921
01:28:20,099 --> 01:28:26,066
between the market. And, and Blue Mesa to keep bikes off of the trail there, off

922
01:28:26,066 --> 01:28:31,026
of the sidewalk there. But no, we, we have plans for all of that. It just depends

923
01:28:31,026 --> 01:28:35,075
on when we can get them funded. And they're big projects. I mean, two years ago,

924
01:28:35,088 --> 01:28:41,079
the, the section between the Prospect Creek Bridge and Fisher was a $400,000 project

925
01:28:41,079 --> 01:28:46,095
roughly. And then to get from Fisher to Aspen Ridge is like a $700,000 project. These

926
01:28:46,095 --> 01:28:51,067
are not cheap projects. So, you know, and, and they're not gonna be covered with

927
01:28:51,067 --> 01:28:57,024
the trails money we have at the 600,000 in trails money. I mean, we, we have a hot,

928
01:28:57,008 --> 01:29:04,001
I, I, I sent the mayor a little kind of A catalog of all the things we'd like to

929
01:29:04,001 --> 01:29:08,081
do, you know, it's a pretty exhaustive list between roadway improvements, you know,

930
01:29:08,009 --> 01:29:14,021
for bike ped safety and soft surface trails, construction of new maintenance of old,

931
01:29:14,034 --> 01:29:19,061
and, you know, that's kind of the menu for council to decide what's the most important

932
01:29:19,061 --> 01:29:23,006
to them as staff we have opinions on what we'd like. I'd like to do. Next year, I'd

933
01:29:23,006 --> 01:29:28,024
love to get the Elk Lake, the, the Touchdown Trail built. We'd love to get the Meadows

934
01:29:28,024 --> 01:29:33,096
Express Trail behind the shop that will come off of the new Mountain Club Trail going

935
01:29:33,096 --> 01:29:37,039
down to the valley floor and it kind of bypasses the Meadows so you can go straight

936
01:29:37,041 --> 01:29:41,011
from Jurassic to Meadows without going through the meadows. We'd love to get that

937
01:29:41,013 --> 01:29:45,009
one done. We'd love to finish up the trail that was interrupted by the Meadowlark

938
01:29:45,009 --> 01:29:50,075
construction and get it down to Adams Ranch Road, cause that's kind of incomplete

939
01:29:50,091 --> 01:29:56,022
and you have to take a circuitous route now from Jurassic around. Um, a lot of rogue

940
01:29:56,022 --> 01:30:00,001
trails are getting pounded in around Meadowlark right now cause we don't really have

941
01:30:00,001 --> 01:30:06,002
a Formal connection from the, the west end of Jurassic down to Adam's Ranch in the

942
01:30:06,002 --> 01:30:11,058
Meadows neighborhood, um. So, you know, those are the three that I'd like to see

943
01:30:11,058 --> 01:30:16,086
happen. I think we can fit in, you know, benchmark shoulders, crushed granite shoulders,

944
01:30:16,094 --> 01:30:22,052
I think we can fit in. Uh, Russell shoulders next year, getting that, getting those

945
01:30:22,052 --> 01:30:26,033
improved a little bit, but the benchmark shoulders are in this budget for next year,

946
01:30:26,052 --> 01:30:30,065
not in your 600,000. There's a lineup. Oh, great. So these are all things, you know,

947
01:30:30,073 --> 01:30:34,053
we'd love those are like next year's projects that are high on my list, you know,

948
01:30:34,066 --> 01:30:38,097
but that is my list, that is not your list. Love to get some feedback on the hot

949
01:30:38,097 --> 01:30:44,043
list on that. But I think we get a lot of this knocked off. You know, I think you've

950
01:30:44,043 --> 01:30:50,062
got a lot of money and for grant proceeds. I really question. Whether or not that's

951
01:30:50,062 --> 01:30:57,012
realistic in the current political environment. Um, so I think We, we might want

952
01:30:57,012 --> 01:31:02,078
to prioritize. We're gonna You know, these trails are gonna do come hell or high

953
01:31:02,078 --> 01:31:09,042
water. And the rest we're going to wait for grant funding. Look at it that way.

954
01:31:12,039 --> 01:31:18,064
Down the trails, I think so. We talk about we can keep going. I'm municipal bus,

955
01:31:19,058 --> 01:31:26,085
so. So we spend Uh, 471,000 on municipal bus and we spend

956
01:31:26,085 --> 01:31:34,064
351 on on Chandola and TMBOA spends 1,0001 on dial a ride. So

957
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:40,055
can we wait to get to the municipal bus budget for that? Sorry, Pete, but I think

958
01:31:40,058 --> 01:31:45,001
I wanna kind of get through the capital plan. I'll be back at 2:15 for that. No,

959
01:31:45,001 --> 01:31:49,099
you're, you're still. But doesn't, isn't this on the capital plan, the money we're

960
01:31:49,099 --> 01:31:55,051
spending on new buses, yeah, because there's talking about operations and well, you

961
01:31:55,051 --> 01:32:01,071
also get $1 million of new new with about with a million dollars worth of grant match

962
01:32:01,076 --> 01:32:05,051
which probably no, that has happened. It's already committed. Yeah, no, we, we have

963
01:32:05,051 --> 01:32:11,059
contracts ready to go. So this year's buses just didn't get contracted in time due

964
01:32:11,059 --> 01:32:16,087
to the grant granting agencies, but so next year those got moved, so we have two

965
01:32:16,087 --> 01:32:24,036
gas buses with 80% grant funding and the first two, Battery powered electric

966
01:32:24,036 --> 01:32:29,048
buses with 80% grant funding. So that's what you see in the 2027 column, and those

967
01:32:29,048 --> 01:32:34,008
dollars are already committed, and they're Colorado dollars, which is, yeah, they're

968
01:32:34,008 --> 01:32:39,009
not federal dollars, yeah, they're faster Colorado faster dollars. So on the vehicle

969
01:32:39,009 --> 01:32:44,042
acquisition, are we done with capital plan then? I think, well, no, we're done with

970
01:32:44,042 --> 01:32:50,034
general fund. OK. You got a lot. Is there, were there any questions about the vehicle

971
01:32:50,034 --> 01:32:55,003
acquisition fund specifically? No, I think you just answered it.

972
01:32:57,036 --> 01:33:03,068
Yeah Um, gondola fund. Uh, there's some big projects coming up to keep the current

973
01:33:03,068 --> 01:33:09,076
gondola running until it's replaced. So next year is the controls on the third leg

974
01:33:09,076 --> 01:33:16,012
of the gondola and um the deposit on the hall ropes and then the hall rope project.

975
01:33:16,029 --> 01:33:21,015
So there's two really big projects coming up to keep the gondola running and then

976
01:33:21,017 --> 01:33:25,032
they drop back down to kind of normal capital levels until the replacement.

977
01:33:27,058 --> 01:33:32,061
I guess my question on the controls upgrade is, do we need that if we think we're

978
01:33:32,061 --> 01:33:40,007
gonna get a new gondola soon? Scott, uh We upgraded the mainline controls, sections

979
01:33:40,007 --> 01:33:45,008
1 and 2 in 2019, and we used all of those spare parts. We've been using those spare

980
01:33:45,008 --> 01:33:50,018
parts that we stripped from that upgrade to keep section 3 running, and we're now

981
01:33:50,018 --> 01:33:54,063
running precipitously low on those spare parts. We can find them. Yes, they're out

982
01:33:54,063 --> 01:34:02,053
there. Um. It just It's time. My technicians, my electrical guys are saying it's,

983
01:34:02,058 --> 01:34:06,026
it's time. We've got a comm line that we're gonna need to replace cause we're running

984
01:34:06,026 --> 01:34:10,073
out of copper pairs on it cause they're breaking out mid-span, and there's no replacement

985
01:34:10,073 --> 01:34:14,009
for that. So, as part of the controls upgrade, you know, there'd be new communications

986
01:34:14,009 --> 01:34:20,044
cable, all new controllers for hydraulic tensioning brakes, all the safety circuits,

987
01:34:20,066 --> 01:34:27,044
the stuff that's in there is vintage, you know, Alan Bradley from the early 1980s

988
01:34:27,044 --> 01:34:32,022
when programmable logic controllers became kind of Industrial automation standard

989
01:34:32,028 --> 01:34:39,067
and the stuff has been legacy for over 15 years and it's time for

990
01:34:39,067 --> 01:34:46,038
reliability. Factor and the controls that were that are being uh sold right now,

991
01:34:46,043 --> 01:34:53,012
these upgrade packages can be used to spare parts for The new gondola, uh, at some

992
01:34:53,014 --> 01:34:57,035
point in the future whenever that gets replaced, but with no assurances that there's

993
01:34:57,035 --> 01:35:02,082
gonna be a capital gondola replacement, it, we gotta move forward with this. This

994
01:35:02,082 --> 01:35:07,063
is really a TMVOA discussion though, isn't it? It's absolutely a TMVOA discussion

995
01:35:07,063 --> 01:35:14,024
and we are, yeah, we're talking with them right now. All right, but that makes that,

996
01:35:14,029 --> 01:35:20,001
I think that's a very compelling reason to do this. Have they approved it? I'm sorry,

997
01:35:20,026 --> 01:35:24,085
have they approved it? No, they've not approved it yet. But we're, we're trying to

998
01:35:24,085 --> 01:35:29,041
get a letter of intent because we need to sign a contract with Doppelmeyer like now

999
01:35:29,041 --> 01:35:34,005
to get on the construction schedule for April because we need to get this project

1000
01:35:34,005 --> 01:35:37,089
done in like 6 weeks. It's basically the same thing that held up the bike park this

1001
01:35:37,089 --> 01:35:42,008
year on the 4. It's the exact same scope of work. It's the exact same control package.

1002
01:35:43,025 --> 01:35:46,024
That the ski area has been upgrading to on their machines for the last couple of

1003
01:35:46,024 --> 01:35:46,083
years.

1004
01:35:50,019 --> 01:35:55,031
I don't know these projections are based on not a replacement, right? Like all the

1005
01:35:55,031 --> 01:36:00,094
future stuff is estimating if things were to continue as yeah, the 10 year but Whatever's

1006
01:36:00,094 --> 01:36:05,078
in the CIP is what it's gonna keep to keep what it's gonna take to keep the existing

1007
01:36:05,078 --> 01:36:06,034
gondola running.

1008
01:36:09,099 --> 01:36:14,015
Well, this is just to clarify, this is, this is the planned stuff. It's, we don't

1009
01:36:14,015 --> 01:36:16,014
have anything obviously for something unplanned.

1010
01:36:18,096 --> 01:36:25,001
Correct. This is all stuff that will happen, that has to happen, not unplanned failures.

1011
01:36:31,058 --> 01:36:35,081
For purposes of today's discussion, we have an amount in here for the Child Development

1012
01:36:35,081 --> 01:36:39,073
fund for the expansion, but we'll be presenting at a workshop next week. This budget

1013
01:36:39,073 --> 01:36:46,026
as it is included is um status quo for the program. So we'll talk in more detail

1014
01:36:46,026 --> 01:36:48,044
about that at next week's council.

1015
01:36:51,002 --> 01:36:57,097
Parking Services Fund. You'll see these meadows lot improvements. Those are Dependent

1016
01:36:57,099 --> 01:37:02,009
on receipt of the grant funding and this is 80% well you can explain it better, but

1017
01:37:02,009 --> 01:37:09,002
we have applied for a grant with 75% grant funding I believe it's um it's a 5339

1018
01:37:09,002 --> 01:37:14,014
grant. It's a competitive federal grant. It's 80/20 match, um, and it's looking,

1019
01:37:14,019 --> 01:37:18,005
it's the east end of the Meadows parking lot to create a safer bus turnaround, a

1020
01:37:18,005 --> 01:37:25,003
bus stop, ADA curb connections to the new bus stop island and out into the Meadows

1021
01:37:25,003 --> 01:37:30,046
neighborhood, so. That's what that grant is for, and that project won't move forward

1022
01:37:30,046 --> 01:37:35,003
without the funding, correct? So it's not resurfacing the Meadows parking, no, OK.

1023
01:37:36,026 --> 01:37:41,061
Well, so Meadows lot did get resurfaced, but it didn't get the full structural and

1024
01:37:41,061 --> 01:37:43,098
drainage upgrades that were proposed.

1025
01:37:46,038 --> 01:37:54,037
Additionally, this forecast includes um Potentially expanding the GPG in 2030

1026
01:37:54,047 --> 01:37:56,006
with a um

1027
01:37:58,025 --> 01:38:02,061
Half debt, half grant or contribution structure.

1028
01:38:06,096 --> 01:38:12,055
That's two levels added. It's, it's the full money. It's a full build out doubling

1029
01:38:12,055 --> 01:38:19,059
the existing size going from 460 to 920. OK. And have you modeled it that using 50%

1030
01:38:19,059 --> 01:38:24,031
debt will work financially? It's gonna start taking some funding from the general

1031
01:38:24,031 --> 01:38:30,051
fund. You'll see that in the um when we look at the parking services fund. I've included

1032
01:38:30,051 --> 01:38:38,048
that service in that. So, so it's 50% debt and 50% grant grant or

1033
01:38:38,048 --> 01:38:46,005
contribution. Equity Well, no, not town contribution. Contribution contributional

1034
01:38:46,005 --> 01:38:50,082
contribution contribution. I think that they're we're hoping to, I mean, the thought

1035
01:38:50,082 --> 01:38:55,078
is, is that so Telluride's gonna give us some money for I think the thought is that

1036
01:38:55,078 --> 01:39:00,013
we would go for grants and potentially this could be something that TMBOA might be

1037
01:39:00,013 --> 01:39:07,041
interested. It's I would have expected the MBOA 275 number to be spread out a little

1038
01:39:07,043 --> 01:39:12,094
more, you know. It's a one year, well, the design's done, so they have architecture

1039
01:39:13,022 --> 01:39:18,042
ready, shovel ready, fully engineered, and we did put, um, you know, it started at

1040
01:39:18,042 --> 01:39:23,058
a $20 million project. It was $25 million a couple of years ago. We just, we put

1041
01:39:23,058 --> 01:39:24,082
another multiplier in there.

1042
01:39:31,006 --> 01:39:32,008
Um, no, I'll leave it.

1043
01:39:35,025 --> 01:39:41,004
Um, next is the Affordable Housing Development Fund. Um, next year we definitely

1044
01:39:41,004 --> 01:39:47,004
have some movement in entitlements and the Forest Service land trade. There is grant

1045
01:39:47,004 --> 01:39:53,024
funding that's been applied for under the Prop $123 so that would be offsetting that

1046
01:39:53,024 --> 01:40:00,072
cost and in the future years we show. Land, um, contribution to the projects

1047
01:40:00,098 --> 01:40:07,032
as well as potential town contributions. So these are very rough numbers and depending

1048
01:40:07,034 --> 01:40:12,097
on whether the town retains any ownership or, you know, the structure of it, these

1049
01:40:12,097 --> 01:40:16,068
might just move to operating contributions and not capital, but we put it on the

1050
01:40:16,068 --> 01:40:23,031
capital plan just to kind of track for you. 30 years has hit the highest rate in

1051
01:40:23,047 --> 01:40:28,094
20 years, I think. Pardon me, the 30 year mortgage rate just hit, it's, there is

1052
01:40:28,094 --> 01:40:35,066
going to have to be a contribution between subsidy and pro and um products that make

1053
01:40:35,066 --> 01:40:43,028
this an affordable living for our residents. Note that um Paul Major, who is working

1054
01:40:43,003 --> 01:40:49,096
with Rural Homes, put together um some various scenarios where TMVA can fund which

1055
01:40:49,098 --> 01:40:55,001
uh some of you reviewed, uh, and TMVAA has formed this housing committee, so Amy's

1056
01:40:55,001 --> 01:40:59,025
been sitting on that committee, their first meetings today actually, and I would

1057
01:40:59,025 --> 01:41:02,053
anticipate that Paul Major would probably attend some of those meetings. We might

1058
01:41:02,053 --> 01:41:07,033
even have Elizabeth at some of those meetings as we work through that kind of most

1059
01:41:07,033 --> 01:41:13,006
important housing project we're working on. Uh, our general manager Alan Highfield

1060
01:41:13,006 --> 01:41:17,027
is actually on that committee as well. OK. Great. Thanks, Rick.

1061
01:41:20,005 --> 01:41:26,013
Um, so Village Court Apartments, we are moving some projects from this year into

1062
01:41:26,013 --> 01:41:31,081
next year, um, due to some complications. Uh, so you'll see our capital is going

1063
01:41:31,081 --> 01:41:37,033
to be low this year and higher next year. We did end up spending the remainder of

1064
01:41:37,033 --> 01:41:40,085
our laundry equipment replacement. That was a four-pace project, so we finished that

1065
01:41:40,085 --> 01:41:44,098
this year knowing that we wouldn't get some of these other projects done. But all

1066
01:41:44,098 --> 01:41:50,067
of the projects in this budget are based on the long-term capital replacement plan

1067
01:41:50,091 --> 01:41:56,082
we had done in 2024 and we have updated annually. So, as we get through time, if

1068
01:41:56,082 --> 01:42:02,023
something becomes a higher priority, we'll shift it around. But There is great progress

1069
01:42:02,023 --> 01:42:06,018
being made on some of those deferred maintenance items. Next year we'll be finishing

1070
01:42:06,002 --> 01:42:11,079
the full paving of the property, which was a three-phase project that Scott um oversaw,

1071
01:42:12,012 --> 01:42:16,003
and we're continuing to get rid of those tile roofs. We should be done with the tile

1072
01:42:16,003 --> 01:42:22,011
roofs in 2031, which is great, and, um, we're starting kind of window and stucco

1073
01:42:22,011 --> 01:42:28,013
projects. Have we started that yet? Uh, we're doing a test window this year and then

1074
01:42:28,013 --> 01:42:32,025
next year we're seeing that. Um, no, I don't believe they've got it done yet.

1075
01:42:36,047 --> 01:42:44,041
Keep going. Thanks. Water fund. The big thing next year is the lift 7 line replacements.

1076
01:42:44,076 --> 01:42:48,098
Um, when we get to the water fund, we can kind of talk about where that fund balance

1077
01:42:49,013 --> 01:42:49,082
your mouth shut.

1078
01:42:52,076 --> 01:42:55,099
No, I mean, we're gonna be looking at the fund balance in relation to that which

1079
01:42:55,099 --> 01:43:03,085
is OK. I'm sad you're gonna be off council, you take direction. Short

1080
01:43:03,085 --> 01:43:10,001
timer. Um, but, uh, in moving forward, we have some big water reline placements in

1081
01:43:10,012 --> 01:43:12,096
2029, 2020, 2031, and 20.

1082
01:43:16,084 --> 01:43:19,099
Yeah, I mean, basically all those waterline replacement projects are getting rid

1083
01:43:19,099 --> 01:43:25,023
of our oldest lines in our system, um, lines that we've seen leaks in, lines that

1084
01:43:25,023 --> 01:43:30,023
are in caustic environments, just old duct to wire pipe that needs to be replaced

1085
01:43:30,023 --> 01:43:34,023
out there, stuff that if it were to fail would be catastrophic to the town in terms

1086
01:43:34,023 --> 01:43:37,087
of us not having enough water to supply to our residents.

1087
01:43:40,088 --> 01:43:47,059
Um, the sewer fund, you'll see that, um, next year, there is money allocated for

1088
01:43:47,059 --> 01:43:52,071
the town's half of the design and engineering for this project, which is moving forward

1089
01:43:52,071 --> 01:43:53,003
with that.

1090
01:43:55,068 --> 01:43:59,023
And the infrastructure meet has been meeting the infrastructure committee has been

1091
01:43:59,023 --> 01:44:03,047
meeting constantly about, you know, what this looks like and, and we're working towards

1092
01:44:03,047 --> 01:44:08,018
getting the cost so that we can start talking about financing and how we pay for

1093
01:44:08,018 --> 01:44:15,006
this. But I guess the big question I think in terms of the long term capital for

1094
01:44:15,006 --> 01:44:21,071
this is, you know, that we're gonna form this authority and then the authority is

1095
01:44:21,071 --> 01:44:27,065
going to put out to bid building a new wastewater plant. And then they're gonna,

1096
01:44:28,001 --> 01:44:34,002
they're they're gonna have the option of presumably financing most of it, but the,

1097
01:44:34,062 --> 01:44:38,065
the cost of paying back that financing in terms of what it would do to people's water

1098
01:44:38,065 --> 01:44:45,045
and sewer bills, um, could be extremely high and so I think there's gonna be a question

1099
01:44:45,009 --> 01:44:51,017
coming in the next few years for this council of whether at least for Mountain Village

1100
01:44:51,017 --> 01:44:58,074
we want to buy down some of that using. Um, you know, some of our reserves so that

1101
01:44:58,084 --> 01:45:06,005
the impact on Um, you know, on people's sewer bills are not, um, so high. That's

1102
01:45:06,005 --> 01:45:09,094
gonna be a question for the future, but it's something I think we need to be thinking

1103
01:45:09,094 --> 01:45:11,099
about when we think about our reserves.

1104
01:45:15,008 --> 01:45:19,091
I think that's right. You know, once, and we'll, we'll be um talking about this a

1105
01:45:19,091 --> 01:45:25,097
little bit more next week, but uh Once we execute the design and construction design

1106
01:45:25,097 --> 01:45:31,019
and engineering contract with Telluride, we'll hit like a 20 or 30% threshold in

1107
01:45:31,019 --> 01:45:37,018
that design, and then I think that's the right time for us to model rates and we'll

1108
01:45:37,018 --> 01:45:40,009
have a clear picture of, of how to move forward with that.

1109
01:45:45,044 --> 01:45:50,094
And then lastly, we have the conference center fund in 2027. The capital includes

1110
01:45:50,096 --> 01:45:55,051
um some architectural design for a remodel, but this is dependent kind of on the

1111
01:45:55,051 --> 01:46:01,017
working group. Coming through with what, what works for everyone and I know there's

1112
01:46:01,017 --> 01:46:07,068
some meetings set up to further that. Um, we projected the remodel happening in 2029.

1113
01:46:07,009 --> 01:46:13,088
This number was based on the mid-scenario of a report we got several years ago, so

1114
01:46:14,001 --> 01:46:19,095
I, we, we're not even sure where that will come in. So somewhere between 2.5 and

1115
01:46:19,095 --> 01:46:27,095
5. Yes, and that was a few years ago, so. And it's TMBOA. Um, on

1116
01:46:27,095 --> 01:46:32,047
board with they'll be part of this, these discussions working group, yeah.

1117
01:46:34,091 --> 01:46:41,049
Mhm. So basically over the next 11 years, cause I did an extra year for some reason,

1118
01:46:41,086 --> 01:46:45,049
we'll be spending $93 million. Cool.

1119
01:46:55,025 --> 01:46:57,096
Where should we go now? I know we're going to the police department.

1120
01:47:00,005 --> 01:47:04,033
It's a lot less than $93 million. Thank you. Thank you, little baby. Thanks. So write,

1121
01:47:05,009 --> 01:47:08,078
write more tickets and help pay for the $92 million.

1122
01:47:13,087 --> 01:47:18,009
I think if, if you looked through the PD budgets, um, the community services in the

1123
01:47:18,009 --> 01:47:23,057
municipal court are very small budgets with, with not too much change, but the biggest

1124
01:47:23,059 --> 01:47:30,068
change in PD of course is. Hopefully full staffing next year for um the police department

1125
01:47:30,073 --> 01:47:35,076
as well as an increase in the regional dispatch fees which are not under our control.

1126
01:47:36,067 --> 01:47:40,046
And, and the only thing with the dispatch fees, turn on my microphone so everybody

1127
01:47:40,046 --> 01:47:46,022
can hear me. Um, with the dispatch fees, that's based on call volume, um, of how

1128
01:47:46,022 --> 01:47:50,014
many calls they answer for, so that just shows that same increase of what we're seeing

1129
01:47:50,014 --> 01:47:56,054
in our call load here, so. Why is it the county sheriff on the dispatch center?

1130
01:47:58,028 --> 01:48:06,015
Game plan Um The former sheriff was offered that opportunity and chose in the the

1131
01:48:06,015 --> 01:48:10,028
meeting I attended, he said I probably should, but I'm not going to go. Um, and,

1132
01:48:10,041 --> 01:48:13,047
and honestly, Pete, I mean, the, the biggest thing, they already have a jail staff

1133
01:48:13,047 --> 01:48:18,068
there. Um, and so they pass their jail staff with communications duties as well,

1134
01:48:18,077 --> 01:48:25,034
which is, uh, uh, not anything we'd like to see. Um. But it, it, it seems to work

1135
01:48:25,034 --> 01:48:29,026
for them. It, it, yeah, it would be nice to have everybody, so absolutely.

1136
01:48:31,059 --> 01:48:34,092
I think there'd be synergies by doing that. Mhm.

1137
01:48:38,088 --> 01:48:44,035
Are you fully staffed now? No, I'm down one right now, but, um, we're actively in

1138
01:48:44,035 --> 01:48:49,056
the process of trying to get somebody for that. Adam Minor left in April.

1139
01:48:51,077 --> 01:48:55,039
And, and, and just basically decided to not be in law enforcement for at least right

1140
01:48:55,041 --> 01:48:59,089
now. So that was, there wasn't anything with Mountain Village. I, I let him go on

1141
01:48:59,089 --> 01:49:03,097
vacation. He was driving across the desert and thought that was pretty nice and decided

1142
01:49:03,097 --> 01:49:08,083
he wanted to do more of that, so. No more vacations next year. Yeah, really, yeah,

1143
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:13,019
all vacations canceled. And, and the only other thing just real quick, um, that I

1144
01:49:13,019 --> 01:49:17,043
just wanna highlight as part of my goals, um, that's been kind of my albatross is

1145
01:49:17,043 --> 01:49:22,034
the access control, um, for all our facilities, and we've upgraded that, and that's

1146
01:49:22,048 --> 01:49:26,051
working amazingly well in my opinion, at least there, there's been a few glitches,

1147
01:49:26,006 --> 01:49:29,031
but overall it's, it's been a great system, so.

1148
01:49:34,088 --> 01:49:41,071
Unless you forget your phone. Unless you forget your phone. I'm kidding. Just any

1149
01:49:41,071 --> 01:49:49,003
other questions, counsel? Where are we on the body cam, uh, implementation? We've

1150
01:49:49,003 --> 01:49:53,051
been fully implemented on body cam, so we don't need any more equipment. We've got

1151
01:49:53,051 --> 01:49:57,059
everything. We don't need any more training. We're off and running, so to speak.

1152
01:49:58,048 --> 01:50:02,095
But this is a contract, so we continue to pay on the equipment every year. So it's,

1153
01:50:03,004 --> 01:50:07,071
yeah, it's a 5 year agreement and, and we do upgrade um more, more on the body more

1154
01:50:07,071 --> 01:50:14,023
camera 4s now which gives us all the AI capability, the live translation. All all

1155
01:50:14,023 --> 01:50:19,009
those other things that come with that, so. But, but yeah, we're, we're on the, the

1156
01:50:19,009 --> 01:50:25,005
best technology, AI technology, um, and, and 11 of the really cool things with the

1157
01:50:25,005 --> 01:50:29,025
body worn camera 4 is I can actually dial in from my phone and watch an officer on

1158
01:50:29,025 --> 01:50:34,037
the call. So if they're having an issue or, or, or need a supervisor matter, I can

1159
01:50:34,037 --> 01:50:38,029
dial in on the phone and listen. We haven't tried it yet, but there is a feature

1160
01:50:38,029 --> 01:50:41,064
that we can push the button and we can talk to them through their body worn camera.

1161
01:50:42,001 --> 01:50:47,057
Um, I, I don't. to manage my officers, but if they have a question we can answer

1162
01:50:47,057 --> 01:50:49,041
I. That so

1163
01:50:52,031 --> 01:50:59,078
I had one question. Um, the housing allowance goes from 100,000 to 137,000.

1164
01:51:01,018 --> 01:51:07,089
Um, so what, what's the reason for that? You have a budgeted increase in rents over

1165
01:51:07,089 --> 01:51:13,033
year over year and that is how those housing allowances are established and then

1166
01:51:13,033 --> 01:51:20,029
you also have um. Uh, you have the housing allowance that's been saved because we

1167
01:51:20,029 --> 01:51:24,061
haven't had an officer in housing all since April. So we matched the one bedroom

1168
01:51:24,061 --> 01:51:30,001
rate at Village Court Apartments. So when that increase goes, we increase our housing

1169
01:51:30,001 --> 01:51:30,041
allowance rate.

1170
01:51:32,044 --> 01:51:37,099
Right, but, but this is up 36%, and I think our rents are up like 5%. Yeah, so you're

1171
01:51:37,099 --> 01:51:43,003
down to 100,000 this year because you haven't been using that housing allowance for

1172
01:51:43,003 --> 01:51:47,027
the officer that was living in housing and moved away. So assumes you fill it on

1173
01:51:47,027 --> 01:51:54,079
January 1. But when I look back at the actuals, it's never been that high and we

1174
01:51:54,079 --> 01:51:59,051
have we always been down in office? Well, we also have one officer not in housing.

1175
01:51:59,006 --> 01:52:01,067
Hold on, let me pull up my little spreadsheet.

1176
01:52:23,015 --> 01:52:25,031
Sorry, Scott, I'm just getting to my spot.

1177
01:52:27,047 --> 01:52:28,068
No, I mean, there's probably

1178
01:52:30,078 --> 01:52:36,071
More than 100,000 individual numbers on on in this packet so I understand if we ask

1179
01:52:36,077 --> 01:52:40,005
about but I do like to pull it up and make sure I've got this right so.

1180
01:52:52,051 --> 01:53:00,002
Yeah, so that has full officers. Um With the exception, I think I can actually bring

1181
01:53:00,002 --> 01:53:03,001
it down slightly. Um

1182
01:53:06,083 --> 01:53:11,034
Yeah, I think I've got one extra person in there because Jeff still lives there.

1183
01:53:13,066 --> 01:53:20,077
Scott, I found an error. Woohoo ding ding ding ding. You get the star.

1184
01:53:21,071 --> 01:53:29,049
OK. But if I, I will say that we have one officer that does not live um within

1185
01:53:29,049 --> 01:53:35,067
the response time so he does not receive a, a housing allowance. So if that officer

1186
01:53:35,067 --> 01:53:41,035
were to be, were to leave, we would end up going up but that brings you down to 122.

1187
01:53:42,062 --> 01:53:49,009
Saving money. There you go. Balanced. It's the number 6 beside books and periodicals,

1188
01:53:49,014 --> 01:53:53,049
but there's no note. I think it's a typo. I think there used to be a note, so I'll

1189
01:53:53,049 --> 01:53:58,058
take that out. And then what just what is the contract labor that's new this year?

1190
01:53:58,007 --> 01:54:01,093
It's been going up a little bit next year, um, that, that's our. Actually mental

1191
01:54:01,093 --> 01:54:06,087
health wellness check-ins. And, and honestly, the, the main reason for that increase

1192
01:54:07,022 --> 01:54:12,065
is officers have been using that service, which we encourage. Um, so, so we do a

1193
01:54:12,065 --> 01:54:16,085
once a year mental health wellness check-in and then she's available for phone calls

1194
01:54:16,085 --> 01:54:21,042
during the year. And then off and I know that someone called but I don't know who

1195
01:54:21,044 --> 01:54:25,054
called what the issue was so that's just using that to to be able to continue and

1196
01:54:25,055 --> 01:54:32,034
and and that's one of those just real quick um you know we do have the EAP um that

1197
01:54:32,034 --> 01:54:39,056
sometimes the EAP and cop issues don't. Mesh very well. So, so having a, a licensed

1198
01:54:39,056 --> 01:54:44,009
psychologist who's been in, in law enforcement. World for years is, is just really

1199
01:54:44,009 --> 01:54:48,093
helpful. So that's why we outsource to her, so. Yeah, we could just have a little

1200
01:54:48,093 --> 01:54:55,097
asterisk on that to explain it. Contract labors just generic. What's San Miguel County

1201
01:54:55,097 --> 01:55:01,041
Juvenile Diversion Program? So that's, uh, anybody basically under the age of 18,

1202
01:55:01,005 --> 01:55:05,057
if they commit a crime, the first time they're offered in to go into the juvenile

1203
01:55:05,057 --> 01:55:11,037
diversion program. Um, they have a contract, it's grades, it's curfew, it's usually

1204
01:55:11,037 --> 01:55:16,009
from some community service. Um, Wendy Crank is our, our regional director. And then

1205
01:55:16,009 --> 01:55:20,007
it's managed through the sheriff's office, so. It's a great, great program, yeah,

1206
01:55:21,002 --> 01:55:22,009
yeah, it, it, it's a really good program.

1207
01:55:24,018 --> 01:55:28,073
We, we highly support it. It's, it's interesting. We probably don't have as much

1208
01:55:28,073 --> 01:55:34,069
usage because the kids tend to be down in another town when they're doing things

1209
01:55:34,069 --> 01:55:38,007
and get in trouble, but, but we do, we, uh, we do use it and we do support that program.

1210
01:55:42,057 --> 01:55:48,069
Chief, we used to Office space for juvenile diversion, are they still up here or

1211
01:55:48,069 --> 01:55:53,059
no, because we sold that 3rd floor to fire. Oh, OK, OK, thanks. Um, I don't know

1212
01:55:53,059 --> 01:55:56,003
where her office is. I don't either, yeah.

1213
01:56:00,076 --> 01:56:06,045
Good. Can we skip over minutes before? Uh, unless you have questions of municipal

1214
01:56:06,045 --> 01:56:10,025
corridor community service, yeah, there's not much in the community service budget

1215
01:56:10,025 --> 01:56:16,037
just so that everybody understands that's a 0.70. percent of their salary, but that's

1216
01:56:16,071 --> 01:56:21,058
two people so it's really 0.35 and then the rest comes out of the parking lot for

1217
01:56:21,058 --> 01:56:22,058
parking enforcement.

1218
01:56:25,008 --> 01:56:29,015
Chief, I had one question on your goals. I just didn't understand. Um, in goal one,

1219
01:56:29,017 --> 01:56:35,002
it said plan to have open position filled at the start of 2027, then complete field

1220
01:56:35,002 --> 01:56:40,082
training program, which is typically 4 months. Comma, and then this is what I didn't

1221
01:56:40,082 --> 01:56:47,023
understand, solo officer by summer festival season. So, so, but yeah, uh, basically,

1222
01:56:47,036 --> 01:56:54,046
Mayor, uh, um, Somebody I don't want to say right now we're the, the person that

1223
01:56:54,046 --> 01:56:58,063
we're hoping to hire could potentially be in an academy right now, which would be

1224
01:56:58,063 --> 01:57:03,067
done in December, uh, and, and then with the The field training program is with another

1225
01:57:03,069 --> 01:57:10,083
officer, so that puts us through 4 months to April or early May, and then that officer

1226
01:57:10,083 --> 01:57:14,096
is actually out on their own answering calls on their own, responding on their own.

1227
01:57:15,001 --> 01:57:19,064
I see, actually filling the position on the schedule. Oh, so they're able to work,

1228
01:57:19,077 --> 01:57:25,055
they're able to be a fully. Uh, equip officer working on their own. I, I understand.

1229
01:57:25,007 --> 01:57:32,089
Thank you. Yes, thank you. Chief, yesterday I was listening to You know, Lane

1230
01:57:32,089 --> 01:57:40,013
and Dan were at Coto, um, for their campaign, and some of the some of the topics

1231
01:57:40,013 --> 01:57:44,033
discussed, you know, I thought about you and your team. There was heavy emphasis

1232
01:57:44,033 --> 01:57:51,029
on training. Um, is your training line growing, staying flat, like, or, or what are

1233
01:57:51,029 --> 01:57:57,012
we doing there for you mentioned earlier, right? Like, The officers to have access

1234
01:57:57,012 --> 01:58:04,079
to to mental health and being able to excel at their job as police officers, so to

1235
01:58:04,079 --> 01:58:10,068
speak, versus law enforcement. Yeah, as far as our training reg, uh, yeah, I, and

1236
01:58:10,068 --> 01:58:15,048
we've, we've been well funded. Um, we do have, fortunately, we have some um police

1237
01:58:15,048 --> 01:58:20,086
officer standard and training monies as well. Um, I don't know if you review your

1238
01:58:20,097 --> 01:58:25,081
vehicle registration very closely, but you are charged $1 for post-training, um,

1239
01:58:25,089 --> 01:58:29,076
and those, those monies are spread throughout the state and, and, and we, we use

1240
01:58:29,076 --> 01:58:36,027
those heavily, um. And, and yeah, all, all of our officers, I have, we haven't pulled

1241
01:58:36,027 --> 01:58:41,019
our numbers this year, but um in the last several years, we, we've been well into

1242
01:58:41,019 --> 01:58:46,055
200 hours of training for our, for our 9 sworn officers. Um, the, the police officer

1243
01:58:46,055 --> 01:58:51,005
standard and training standard is 24 hours of training per year. And, and, and we

1244
01:58:51,052 --> 01:58:55,039
will exceed that with, with your guys' support in that training line item, so.

1245
01:58:58,073 --> 01:59:00,099
I got it, thank you, appreciate that.

1246
01:59:04,028 --> 01:59:09,077
Thank you, Chief. Thank you all for your support. Thank you. I just noticed Jim Sukup

1247
01:59:09,077 --> 01:59:13,081
is still on. I think. You don't have to be on anymore, Jim. I know you're supposed

1248
01:59:13,081 --> 01:59:20,033
to be on your Anniversary trip OK, well, ciao, everyone.

1249
01:59:26,085 --> 01:59:30,094
Next, the Child Development Fund. And as I said, we're gonna have a more detailed

1250
01:59:30,094 --> 01:59:37,028
discussion about the um actual potential program expansion. At next week's meeting,

1251
01:59:37,058 --> 01:59:41,093
um, the biggest change in the Child Development Fund, of course, is that, um, we're

1252
01:59:41,093 --> 01:59:46,079
currently in the process of trying to bring on an assistant director for the program.

1253
01:59:47,021 --> 01:59:53,009
Um, a big help is needed in both for an expansion and just continuing on in this

1254
01:59:53,009 --> 02:00:00,035
program. So, um, that is the biggest change. And then the other change is the recommendation

1255
02:00:00,075 --> 02:00:06,005
to increase our rates. To be in line with what is being charged in the region and

1256
02:00:06,085 --> 02:00:11,068
uh Strong Start was able to provide us with what regional rates will be like for

1257
02:00:11,068 --> 02:00:16,092
27 so that we could estimate what ours would be and they could apply that to their

1258
02:00:16,092 --> 02:00:23,077
budget so that the Munchkin's families would be able to access additional funds when

1259
02:00:23,097 --> 02:00:27,004
the uh costs go up in January if approved by the council.

1260
02:00:31,005 --> 02:00:36,025
Getting any pushback on where it's going? I haven't actually. Um, the rollout of

1261
02:00:36,025 --> 02:00:42,013
the full-time model that started September 1st, um, we only have one family that,

1262
02:00:42,047 --> 02:00:45,086
uh, was in opposition of it and they were already on the fence about having their

1263
02:00:45,086 --> 02:00:51,005
child in care, um, to begin with. And so, um, that was the only family that I've,

1264
02:00:51,019 --> 02:00:55,062
I've really heard any pushback. I think it's pretty standard and, um, we're not far

1265
02:00:55,062 --> 02:00:59,006
behind, but we are behind a little bit from other programs in the community and so

1266
02:00:59,022 --> 02:01:02,078
I think it's actually expected that we're We're going to be getting in line with

1267
02:01:02,078 --> 02:01:05,021
that, you know. That's right.

1268
02:01:12,078 --> 02:01:19,031
I just wanna thank Chambers and um Lindsay and Jamie and Elizabeth, just a lot of

1269
02:01:19,057 --> 02:01:24,002
um kind of soul-searching around our model and our retention and the things that

1270
02:01:24,002 --> 02:01:28,052
work and the things that were a struggle for the staff down there and I hope that

1271
02:01:28,052 --> 02:01:35,092
it, it works out for us in 2027 um that the, the policies and programs we've implemented

1272
02:01:35,092 --> 02:01:36,096
will be effective.

1273
02:01:39,002 --> 02:01:44,082
Do you, do you have any funding from the community in this? From the other communities,

1274
02:01:44,095 --> 02:01:51,069
no donations. Yes, I do have donations. We have them under fundraising. Um, I believe

1275
02:01:51,069 --> 02:01:56,052
Catherine and Chambers are gonna be working to roll that out, the year in donations

1276
02:01:56,052 --> 02:02:01,001
with, um, the Telluride Foundation. But this year I will say you'll see I've updated

1277
02:02:01,001 --> 02:02:08,014
the 2026 forecast. The gondola auction, um, was very successful, that the actual

1278
02:02:08,014 --> 02:02:14,029
total bids were just over $50,000. And then we paid a commission on top of that which

1279
02:02:14,029 --> 02:02:18,055
will show in fundraising expenses and then just deducted the state and county sales

1280
02:02:18,055 --> 02:02:23,082
tax from that so that was great. Um, in the coming years I've got basically, uh,

1281
02:02:24,032 --> 02:02:29,095
you know, I have $60,000 in for community donations. We'll see how this goes. It

1282
02:02:29,095 --> 02:02:37,003
could be way over, it could be way less, but, um. We're hoping to get a strong Fundraising

1283
02:02:37,003 --> 02:02:37,058
campaign going.

1284
02:02:39,089 --> 02:02:45,076
60 is the donor advice fund managed by the foundation and you, you mentioned other

1285
02:02:45,076 --> 02:02:51,075
communities. I mean, have we made any progress with them helping infant part of this?

1286
02:02:51,099 --> 02:02:57,051
Yeah, Chambers and Michelle, um, presented at the intergovernmental meeting in September

1287
02:02:57,079 --> 02:03:03,042
and so the discussions, um, are starting and Chambers has actually had some discussions

1288
02:03:03,042 --> 02:03:07,037
with the. County and you know nothing solidified yet. No, not yet. I think it was,

1289
02:03:07,043 --> 02:03:10,061
you know, at the, um, intergovernmental meeting it was really interesting because,

1290
02:03:10,091 --> 02:03:14,042
uh, you know, like we have been discussing for the past couple of months, getting

1291
02:03:14,042 --> 02:03:20,058
out there and spreading the word, um, is really important and, uh, I was, um, a little

1292
02:03:20,058 --> 02:03:26,046
shocked to know how little, uh. Consideration had really been put into childcare,

1293
02:03:26,063 --> 02:03:31,011
um, and so, you know, it's, it's, I think we've just started to crack the egg on

1294
02:03:31,011 --> 02:03:36,011
this and, and getting, um, more education out there to both, uh, the county and town

1295
02:03:36,011 --> 02:03:39,007
of Telluride is gonna be the next steps, um, and like Elizabeth was saying we're

1296
02:03:39,007 --> 02:03:45,016
working on a year-end. Um, donation campaign, um, for the next couple of months because

1297
02:03:45,016 --> 02:03:50,052
the state of Colorado is also offering a 50% tax credit so it's really, um, a great

1298
02:03:50,052 --> 02:03:54,004
incentive for people who are looking to donate money towards the end of the year

1299
02:03:54,004 --> 02:03:58,055
for tax purposes, um, to focus on childcare since they get a, a bigger credit there.

1300
02:03:59,011 --> 02:04:04,064
Mhm. If our friends in Telluride or the County were to contribute, they're in their

1301
02:04:04,064 --> 02:04:12,047
budget season right now, uh, it may be a great time to make a specific ask. I think

1302
02:04:12,049 --> 02:04:17,000
we made a lot of headway just raising awareness to Chambers' point. There seemed

1303
02:04:17,000 --> 02:04:21,044
to be very little awareness around what I would consider a childcare crisis for infant

1304
02:04:21,044 --> 02:04:28,039
care in the region. Um, I hope we can make some headway for some more interjurisdictional

1305
02:04:28,069 --> 02:04:34,000
contributions. I'm not sure it's heading in that direction right now. Yeah, you,

1306
02:04:34,016 --> 02:04:35,075
you all are more optimistic than I am.

1307
02:04:39,024 --> 02:04:44,098
But the gondola, um, cabin fundraiser was wildly successful, and those funds went

1308
02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:50,043
to Munchkins. I think it was how much did we raise? Yeah, we, we netted just 45 to

1309
02:04:50,043 --> 02:04:56,056
46,000 46,000, yeah, and is that shown in the revised, uh, forecasted 26 budget?

1310
02:04:56,079 --> 02:05:03,023
Mhm. That's 16,666 per oh, I see you got spread we spread it between the programs.

1311
02:05:03,036 --> 02:05:09,021
I was looking for a big 45,000 number. Yeah, it's spread between programs. Got it.

1312
02:05:12,032 --> 02:05:14,007
We'll be talking to you next week again anyway, so.

1313
02:05:17,061 --> 02:05:25,012
Anybody else? Thank you. Thanks, Chambers. So we're actually back on track. We are

1314
02:05:25,018 --> 02:05:32,073
back on track. Um, do we wanna move forward or we wanna buy a brick? Um,

1315
02:05:33,038 --> 02:05:39,085
so, yes. A quick break or move forward. Quick break. Quick break. Quick break. Let's

1316
02:05:39,088 --> 02:05:42,056
take 10 minutes. Yeah, 10 minute break.

1317
02:05:45,001 --> 02:05:49,016
So we'll be back at 12:30 12:35, yep.

1318
02:05:56,073 --> 02:06:04,028
Recording in progress. OK, we're back and Economic development and sustainability.

1319
02:06:04,087 --> 02:06:10,034
On JD's last day working for the town, don't go easy on we scheduled it this way.

1320
02:06:10,064 --> 02:06:17,061
No, that was, it was me. The gloves are off. Um, and Molly and Catherine are, and

1321
02:06:17,061 --> 02:06:22,068
Lauren are all gonna join as well. So I'll be the one stewarding these budgets moving

1322
02:06:22,068 --> 02:06:27,001
forward, um. Is there anything that you wanted to kick off, Elizabeth, or do you

1323
02:06:27,001 --> 02:06:32,048
want to dive in? I think that there's lots of notes on these projects. Um, the biggest

1324
02:06:32,048 --> 02:06:39,006
change in the economic development and sustainability, um, is the, uh, Plaza Improvements

1325
02:06:39,006 --> 02:06:46,096
Consulting. That um JD has a portion of that in his budget. We are anticipating that

1326
02:06:46,096 --> 02:06:53,016
it'll be a shared expense between TMBOA and the town. So that is the biggest ad this

1327
02:06:53,018 --> 02:06:59,096
year. Um, and then the public art initiatives. Um, in a meeting with the Finance

1328
02:06:59,096 --> 02:07:04,059
Committee, it was brought up that, um, They would like to see the town consider a

1329
02:07:04,059 --> 02:07:10,015
contribution to public art moving forward annually. And so, you will see that there

1330
02:07:10,015 --> 02:07:18,011
is currently a $75,000 addition in the budget for that. And lastly, the BDAC

1331
02:07:18,011 --> 02:07:24,039
expenses this year, a portion of which is the business development. What's the business

1332
02:07:24,039 --> 02:07:30,015
development advisor group. There was, there's usually $100,000 in that budget every

1333
02:07:30,015 --> 02:07:35,014
year, but part of the purchase this year was actually capital. It was those pickleball

1334
02:07:35,014 --> 02:07:41,067
court. Covered pickleball roll out roll out pickleball courts. So that actually ended

1335
02:07:41,067 --> 02:07:44,099
up in capital, but the budget is expanded.

1336
02:07:51,044 --> 02:07:56,047
Um, just wanted to, uh, add a few thoughts on the public art, which is that the Public

1337
02:07:56,047 --> 02:08:04,035
Arts Commission, um, has been working with TMVOA and Telluride

1338
02:08:04,035 --> 02:08:12,035
Arts, um, on. Some really exciting things which are somewhat art related but

1339
02:08:12,035 --> 02:08:19,042
also somewhat um economic development related um so Telluride Arts has put together

1340
02:08:19,083 --> 02:08:25,054
a proposal that will be shared with the Public Arts commission probably in a few

1341
02:08:25,056 --> 02:08:33,009
days that has um them. Working with TMBOA in the town to develop two art weeks, one

1342
02:08:33,009 --> 02:08:39,005
in the winter and one in the summer, um, that the hope is would, would actually be

1343
02:08:39,027 --> 02:08:44,086
an attraction just like, uh, you know, a festival would be an attraction, um, to

1344
02:08:44,086 --> 02:08:50,006
people to visit the town, um, with the one in the winter being more night oriented

1345
02:08:50,006 --> 02:08:55,078
with sort of LED focused, uh, art and the one in the summer being day and night.

1346
02:08:56,008 --> 02:09:02,024
Um, and they're also, um, putting together an interesting long-term proposal for

1347
02:09:02,056 --> 02:09:03,099
a sculpture walk.

1348
02:09:06,009 --> 02:09:12,009
Over time, either the town or TMVOA would acquire, um, you know,

1349
02:09:13,072 --> 02:09:20,056
Permanent sculptures that um would line. Um, up some sort of path through the plazas

1350
02:09:20,056 --> 02:09:26,093
and potentially through some trails, um, that also the hope is would, would I, I

1351
02:09:26,093 --> 02:09:30,099
guess the way we talked about at the, at the um arts commission is is that we would

1352
02:09:31,002 --> 02:09:37,045
move from art being something that would enhance the community to having the aspiration

1353
02:09:37,045 --> 02:09:40,049
that you would have art that would actually attract people to the community.

1354
02:09:50,085 --> 02:09:55,023
Uh, Elizabeth, is the salary line the assumption that there'll be an open position

1355
02:09:55,023 --> 02:10:00,046
for quarter 4 of this year that will be filled in January? That's correct and we

1356
02:10:00,046 --> 02:10:07,008
also had. And we also had a few months of um not full pay in, in one role with the

1357
02:10:07,014 --> 02:10:07,028
team.

1358
02:10:24,036 --> 02:10:26,011
Anybody else? Other questions?

1359
02:10:30,026 --> 02:10:30,089
Tourism

1360
02:10:34,099 --> 02:10:41,007
Indeed, thank you. Oh, he's still up here. He's got another apartment. 2 more.

1361
02:10:43,098 --> 02:10:44,004
Um

1362
02:10:46,029 --> 02:10:52,044
In the tourism fund, you know, the, a lot of these are um similar expenditures year

1363
02:10:52,044 --> 02:10:58,048
over year. There were some um notes that Catherine had as far as some changes in

1364
02:10:58,048 --> 02:11:00,004
her budget line items.

1365
02:11:02,016 --> 02:11:06,063
Again, these are the funds collected from lodging and restaurant taxes, distribution

1366
02:11:06,063 --> 02:11:14,049
to the airline guarantee, and um the Expenditures of marketing the town. I will

1367
02:11:14,049 --> 02:11:22,029
say that in this budget remains $250,000 for events. During the year,

1368
02:11:22,059 --> 02:11:29,049
similar to this year that's being used as um to bring a special event in the winter.

1369
02:11:29,009 --> 02:11:34,005
I don't know that we can say more about it right now, but, and also Oktoberfest.

1370
02:11:34,014 --> 02:11:39,094
So those funds have been left in the budget to continue to support. Large events

1371
02:11:39,096 --> 02:11:42,008
in the core for the next few years.

1372
02:11:49,087 --> 02:11:55,098
The fan trip. Um, we will hop in the TCC budget next, which is where those funds,

1373
02:11:56,007 --> 02:11:58,042
but yeah, I'm happy to talk about it, uh, when we get there.

1374
02:12:09,088 --> 02:12:10,028
Yeah.

1375
02:12:17,009 --> 02:12:22,028
Sure, um, who, whoever's mic, whoever's talking doesn't have their mic on, so we

1376
02:12:22,028 --> 02:12:27,043
can't hear. Sorry, it was Pete. I'll repeat his question. He was asking me about,

1377
02:12:27,053 --> 02:12:33,000
um, a conference I just went to. I went to the governor's conference, uh, for tourism.

1378
02:12:33,017 --> 02:12:40,013
It was all the Colorado DM. DMOs and towns that also fund their DMOs. Um, and so,

1379
02:12:40,015 --> 02:12:44,016
yeah, it was a great, great conference. We got to catch up a bit on it, um, but it

1380
02:12:44,016 --> 02:12:49,004
was, uh, the conversation was very much in line with the Conversations Council has

1381
02:12:49,004 --> 02:12:54,064
been asking and the questions they've been asking of the tourism board. Um, significant

1382
02:12:54,064 --> 02:13:00,099
focus on AI, significant focus on like custom curated experiences and information.

1383
02:13:01,048 --> 02:13:08,098
Itineraries, um, a whole section on influencers and how and when to use those. Um,

1384
02:13:09,032 --> 02:13:14,071
yeah, it was just, it, it was very reassuring that you all were on the right track

1385
02:13:14,071 --> 02:13:20,074
and we're on the right track with, um, our ask of the tourism board, um, and I'll

1386
02:13:20,084 --> 02:13:26,031
plan on hopefully my November, uh, department update, be able to provide a lot more

1387
02:13:26,031 --> 02:13:34,002
context on all of that. Thanks. So just maybe I'm a little bit behind here, uh, uh,

1388
02:13:34,011 --> 02:13:39,019
on the tourism budget packet, uh, you know, we have the, the lodging taxes on the

1389
02:13:39,019 --> 02:13:44,046
revenues. How much are we retaining for our expenses? I just can't follow it.

1390
02:13:47,002 --> 02:13:53,043
The tourism fund out of the lodging taxes, one half of the lodging taxes, um, is

1391
02:13:53,043 --> 02:13:58,047
dedicated to the airline guarantee and 100% of the restaurant taxes, so we maintain,

1392
02:13:58,006 --> 02:14:04,071
we retain the business licensing revenues which we use to offset the cost of the

1393
02:14:04,071 --> 02:14:09,014
department as well and the one half of the lodging tax.

1394
02:14:11,087 --> 02:14:17,007
OK, so we're, but in the past we were, there's some variability on how much we retain

1395
02:14:17,087 --> 02:14:25,069
versus transferring over, um, oh yes, because, yeah, before we used to, we used

1396
02:14:25,069 --> 02:14:32,001
to, uh, transfer over whatever that remainder of the lodging tax, and now we actually

1397
02:14:32,001 --> 02:14:36,078
have a contract for services, so. All right, so, OK, got it.

1398
02:14:46,004 --> 02:14:46,095
Conference center.

1399
02:14:50,018 --> 02:14:52,012
People be nice to you. I don't understand.

1400
02:14:55,009 --> 02:15:02,086
Um, as the conference center, there's just a lot right now as far as where the

1401
02:15:02,086 --> 02:15:06,075
future of the conference center is headed that's kind of up. In the air with this

1402
02:15:06,075 --> 02:15:12,061
remodel and uh what the new design is and what that conference center is to the community

1403
02:15:12,096 --> 02:15:18,039
so in looking at that um know that there's gonna be probably quite a bit of changes

1404
02:15:18,039 --> 02:15:23,059
we look forward in this but this current budget um we now have 2 years' worth of

1405
02:15:23,059 --> 02:15:28,071
data almost 2 years at the end of this year, which is great um and the community

1406
02:15:28,071 --> 02:15:35,009
events have grown, uh, they've also seen a growth in. Revenues from the bookings

1407
02:15:35,009 --> 02:15:42,054
of this. You will see that we um in our beverage revenues for 2026

1408
02:15:42,054 --> 02:15:49,018
forecast, those are gonna be less than we had originally uh budgeted and we got a

1409
02:15:49,018 --> 02:15:54,038
huge kick last summer with not having the sunset series. We had those in the Telluride

1410
02:15:54,038 --> 02:15:59,005
Conference Center Plaza. So that's why you see um some decrease in beverage revenue.

1411
02:15:59,095 --> 02:16:04,009
Uh, now that they were back in their original spot, we saw less revenue this summer.

1412
02:16:04,056 --> 02:16:10,025
Um, we do have in the budget, as we talked about during the capital section, plans

1413
02:16:10,027 --> 02:16:14,037
to potentially remodel the center in 2019. We're gonna have to narrow those down

1414
02:16:14,039 --> 02:16:18,046
at some point so that we can incorporate those into our booking as Amy's already

1415
02:16:18,046 --> 02:16:24,000
booking some for 2029. Um, additionally, in that year, we assumed that our revenues

1416
02:16:24,034 --> 02:16:28,016
would be about 25% of what they normally are because the center would be closed for

1417
02:16:28,016 --> 02:16:30,005
remodel for most of the year.

1418
02:16:36,099 --> 02:16:44,074
I guess uh my main question on this budget is why we're not more optimistic

1419
02:16:44,074 --> 02:16:51,021
about growing. Um, revenues in the coming year. We have, you know, one of the things

1420
02:16:51,021 --> 02:16:58,027
that we heard was a, a drag on 2026 was that The peaks didn't have a restaurant and

1421
02:16:58,027 --> 02:17:02,091
that made it harder. Um, my understanding is is that they will have a restaurant

1422
02:17:02,091 --> 02:17:08,077
next year. We now have a team who, you know, has the benefit of a renovated conference

1423
02:17:08,077 --> 02:17:14,031
center. They've been stable and working with us and so I just wonder why the, I mean,

1424
02:17:14,044 --> 02:17:21,003
I, I appreciate being conservative in our budgets, but it feels. Sort of unambitious

1425
02:17:21,003 --> 02:17:27,042
to me, the, the revenue growth that's forecasted. Um, I, I think that this could

1426
02:17:27,042 --> 02:17:33,079
use a little bit more tweaking as we get some more groups booked towards 2027. Um,

1427
02:17:33,092 --> 02:17:39,078
I did not include in the projections, um, the restaurant opening in the peaks. I,

1428
02:17:39,092 --> 02:17:45,001
I was not under the impression that that was for certain yet, but, um, I'm happy

1429
02:17:45,012 --> 02:17:50,092
to adjust these up. Last year we budgeted to be up about 10%, but you'll see that

1430
02:17:50,092 --> 02:17:55,099
we're gonna finish the year, um, not too far ahead of where we finished last year.

1431
02:17:56,016 --> 02:18:00,077
But I will say that Amy does get a lot of last minute third quarter bookings. So,

1432
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:06,028
um, I, I will go back and revise these after talking to her.

1433
02:18:10,098 --> 02:18:16,000
Right. And you know, again, I mean, we, we shouldn't, we should budget conservatively,

1434
02:18:16,006 --> 02:18:19,041
so they shouldn't represent stretch goals, um.

1435
02:18:21,042 --> 02:18:26,033
But I hope any bookings, I hope we can do better. Did any bookings result as a result

1436
02:18:26,033 --> 02:18:32,003
of the, uh, fan trips or no? Did anything materialize? Yeah, I can speak. I can answer

1437
02:18:32,003 --> 02:18:36,047
that question and kind of speak more broadly about the FAM trip as well. So, um,

1438
02:18:36,063 --> 02:18:41,046
I don't think we've converted any um RFPs yet or any contracts, uh, as a result of

1439
02:18:41,046 --> 02:18:46,005
the FAM, but we have seen, um, several RFPs submitted by the meeting planners that

1440
02:18:46,005 --> 02:18:51,021
attended that FAM trip. Um, just to highlight that trip as a whole, I mean, it was,

1441
02:18:51,051 --> 02:18:56,036
it was extremely successful. I want to give, um, a lot of credit to. Amy Solomon,

1442
02:18:56,045 --> 02:19:01,012
our, our third-party sales director, she really, um, took this project, took the

1443
02:19:01,012 --> 02:19:05,075
lead on it, and did an incredible job in organizing, you know, wonderful fan trip

1444
02:19:05,075 --> 02:19:11,016
and working with several community partners. Um, we had 7 meeting planners booked,

1445
02:19:11,025 --> 02:19:15,008
one, dropped out last minute due to some travel issues, uh, but they were representing

1446
02:19:15,008 --> 02:19:22,088
markets in Denver, Phoenix, and Dallas. Um, They had tours of several lodging properties

1447
02:19:22,088 --> 02:19:25,074
while they were here. They stayed at the peaks, they toured the Madeleine, they toured

1448
02:19:25,074 --> 02:19:30,026
the mountain lodge. Um, the Madeleine provided a great lunch, the Mountain Lodge

1449
02:19:30,026 --> 02:19:34,054
provided a great lunch. They had dinner at All Reds, did an on mountain tour and

1450
02:19:34,054 --> 02:19:42,033
got to see Guaranos and um the San Sofia wedding site. Um, they had the quintessential

1451
02:19:42,043 --> 02:19:48,018
walking tour of Telluride with Telluride Tom downtown. Um, and SBG Productions offered,

1452
02:19:48,023 --> 02:19:52,062
uh, some VIP Blues and Brews tickets for Friday afternoon. Um, so they had a great

1453
02:19:52,062 --> 02:19:56,082
time in town park and got to really, um, I think experience kind of the full breadth

1454
02:19:56,082 --> 02:20:00,009
of our, our destination. Um, I think some takeaways from that, I think they were

1455
02:20:00,009 --> 02:20:05,084
really Um, as we expected, I think getting those meeting planners here and, and the

1456
02:20:05,084 --> 02:20:10,039
ability to see how our destination functions and see that, you know, staying at a

1457
02:20:10,039 --> 02:20:15,073
hotel that's across the plaza versus contiguous with our conference center, um, really

1458
02:20:15,073 --> 02:20:21,075
works in, in essentially the same way, right? And so, I think um them coming here

1459
02:20:21,075 --> 02:20:25,057
and, and seeing how our destination operates uh was really helpful and we'll give

1460
02:20:25,057 --> 02:20:30,028
them, um, you know, a greater ability to sell our uh destination in the conference

1461
02:20:30,028 --> 02:20:36,019
center and um where I started, we've, we've seen an uptick already from these specific

1462
02:20:36,019 --> 02:20:43,046
planners and um RFPs. For the space, so we're gonna do it again, yes, in

1463
02:20:43,046 --> 02:20:49,054
2027. Yes, OK, and um I think that, you know, getting this first year under our belt

1464
02:20:49,054 --> 02:20:54,014
was a huge first step and should make that a much more streamlined process, uh, and

1465
02:20:54,014 --> 02:20:58,078
really just easier to execute on Amy's. And, and I think I want to highlight one

1466
02:20:58,078 --> 02:21:04,005
thing you said, JD, and that's the, the cooperation, collaboration with our community

1467
02:21:04,005 --> 02:21:11,084
partners with TSG with the Hotels, um, with the TTB, I mean, everybody

1468
02:21:11,084 --> 02:21:15,055
really pitched in and put their best foot forward to, to show off the community.

1469
02:21:15,069 --> 02:21:16,072
Yeah, absolutely.

1470
02:21:19,038 --> 02:21:26,095
Um, is the same staff remaining in place for the conference center? Um, at this current

1471
02:21:26,095 --> 02:21:33,032
time, yes. Um, we have discussed, uh, the potential for issuing an RFP for the facility

1472
02:21:33,032 --> 02:21:39,078
management, but, um, no decisions have been made definitively on that path as of

1473
02:21:39,078 --> 02:21:44,054
today. And is that, does that come forward to council or staff makes that decision?

1474
02:21:45,003 --> 02:21:51,011
We're working with the TCC working group on those um Those types of decisions. And

1475
02:21:51,011 --> 02:21:56,027
that, that working group met yesterday and um I, I think we have a lot of work to

1476
02:21:56,027 --> 02:22:03,051
do because we really are trying to figure out what we want in this asset. Um, with

1477
02:22:03,051 --> 02:22:09,043
all due respect, we know it's not an ideal conference center, but the proposal or

1478
02:22:09,043 --> 02:22:14,047
the presentation that the architect did about how we could enhance it is pretty interesting.

1479
02:22:14,049 --> 02:22:18,086
And so this committee, Tucker and I are on it. I don't know, is anybody else on it.

1480
02:22:19,012 --> 02:22:26,047
Um. We're gonna meet with our stakeholder partners, TMVOA, the hotels, you name it,

1481
02:22:26,057 --> 02:22:32,072
and try to see what we want this thing to be. It's been a perennial, and I don't

1482
02:22:32,072 --> 02:22:37,012
mean any disrespect to the hard work people have done, but we've been subsidizing

1483
02:22:37,012 --> 02:22:42,064
it for a long time and we have to decide how much longer we want to do that or do

1484
02:22:42,064 --> 02:22:47,014
we do something more dramatic. And, and for more color, one of the things we've talked.

1485
02:22:48,007 --> 02:22:52,051
At length about is what are the ancillary benefits, what, what's the the holistic

1486
02:22:52,075 --> 02:23:00,075
benefit of having conferences here, having groups here, um, and so, and, and maybe

1487
02:23:00,083 --> 02:23:05,065
at the end of the day, you know, it's not, it really can't stand on its own on a

1488
02:23:05,067 --> 02:23:12,072
P&L basis, but we really need to look at it holistically. Yeah. So, And then how

1489
02:23:12,072 --> 02:23:19,028
does it work? The 7, sorry, Rick, the subsidy is what is ending up at like 765 this

1490
02:23:19,028 --> 02:23:26,072
year. We're looking at 778 for next year. Does the committee kind of have a goal

1491
02:23:27,031 --> 02:23:33,041
about what they'd like to see the subsidy reach? Has that kind of been part of the

1492
02:23:33,041 --> 02:23:38,076
discussion? I would say no. We would love some guidance from council because that

1493
02:23:38,076 --> 02:23:45,000
will really help us. Determine what we want to make this thing into, um, and to Tucker's

1494
02:23:45,000 --> 02:23:49,004
point that the, the these are the numbers that we can measure, the hard to measure

1495
02:23:49,004 --> 02:23:55,002
ones, uh, it's, you know, we've retained it as a community asset. There's a lot of

1496
02:23:55,002 --> 02:24:00,002
community events we have there at a very low cost to our nonprofits and community

1497
02:24:00,002 --> 02:24:07,000
members. Um, it is a feature in group sales and the extent to which groups help fill

1498
02:24:07,000 --> 02:24:11,098
in the troughs and. Or introduce our destination to people who otherwise would not

1499
02:24:11,098 --> 02:24:16,081
have come here, you know, lots of benefits across the board there, hard to measure,

1500
02:24:17,011 --> 02:24:25,000
but Just spitballing here. I, I don't think. This is sustainable. I think, uh, an

1501
02:24:25,000 --> 02:24:31,037
enhanced facility should be operating much closer to break even, and that's a pretty

1502
02:24:31,037 --> 02:24:34,091
humble goal. But Tucker, you've been on this committee longer than me. You should.

1503
02:24:35,025 --> 02:24:38,096
No, I think that's right. And I think, you know, I mean, as, as Elizabeth pointed

1504
02:24:38,096 --> 02:24:41,096
out at the beginning, we've really only had control of the conference center for

1505
02:24:41,096 --> 02:24:49,068
2 years. And in that time, our primary hotel partner um has changed management, um,

1506
02:24:49,085 --> 02:24:56,000
which Created another ripple effect through how it gets marketed and sold, um, and

1507
02:24:56,000 --> 02:25:01,015
I think things are finally now settling down once again until the next change. Um,

1508
02:25:01,043 --> 02:25:07,029
and, and so, it's a moving target, to be candid with you. Well, one thing we have,

1509
02:25:07,063 --> 02:25:13,007
oh sorry, um, from an, from an RFP process then to bring us full circle to that,

1510
02:25:13,079 --> 02:25:18,054
how does that work? The committee evaluates it and then the committee and staff make

1511
02:25:18,054 --> 02:25:24,034
the decision on putting it out to RFP, or does it come forward before the, uh, all

1512
02:25:24,034 --> 02:25:25,021
council members?

1513
02:25:28,000 --> 02:25:31,035
Um, that's a good question, Rick. I mean, I guess I would consult. I don't know if,

1514
02:25:31,006 --> 02:25:36,083
uh, David or Haley are on the call from a process standpoint. I think, um, you know,

1515
02:25:36,096 --> 02:25:41,007
right now we're working with our working group on that, and I think that our assumption

1516
02:25:41,007 --> 02:25:45,015
as staff is that the working group could also make a decision on whether they would

1517
02:25:45,015 --> 02:25:49,055
like to bring the discussion to the full council or whether they want to direct staff,

1518
02:25:49,068 --> 02:25:53,031
um, you know, to move forward with the process. So I think from my perspective, it's

1519
02:25:53,031 --> 02:25:59,066
a little bit of a council-led, um. Yeah, our, our, our, I think our current thinking

1520
02:25:59,066 --> 02:26:04,041
to paraphrase it, but we're happy to do whatever the full council wants. This is

1521
02:26:04,041 --> 02:26:10,025
RFP, at least I personally hope it's kind of a short term measure. Um, let's, let's

1522
02:26:10,025 --> 02:26:14,057
get through next year. Let's continue some momentum. Let's use that time to figure

1523
02:26:14,057 --> 02:26:19,005
out what we want this thing to be and if we wanna put some significant money into

1524
02:26:19,005 --> 02:26:24,006
it as a community and it's bigger, better, different than what it is, um. All of

1525
02:26:24,006 --> 02:26:29,056
that would come to council, and at that point I can envision the RFP coming to council

1526
02:26:29,056 --> 02:26:34,043
as well because it'll be a much bigger deal. But Tucker, I'm spitballing here. No,

1527
02:26:35,017 --> 02:26:41,055
I concur. And I can just share with you, typically, you know, the director would

1528
02:26:41,055 --> 02:26:46,053
issue the RFP and then they have their committee. In this case, it's the TCC committee.

1529
02:26:46,096 --> 02:26:51,083
Sometimes those, and they make a, they can make a recommendation or they can say

1530
02:26:51,083 --> 02:26:58,039
we want this and then you would see that contract, but um it can be. Um, brought

1531
02:26:58,039 --> 02:27:02,095
to council, you know, as a recommendation and then it can be discussed and reviewed

1532
02:27:02,095 --> 02:27:07,082
at that time. So there, there's a way through this process. And I think the other

1533
02:27:07,093 --> 02:27:15,018
thing that um Oh sorry, Rick. Nope, Scott, go ahead. Oh, the other. Thing is, um,

1534
02:27:15,059 --> 02:27:22,087
I think, um, We talked about TMDOA and and their interest in partnership. Um, I've

1535
02:27:22,087 --> 02:27:27,067
also gotten some new indications from Telski that there's some partnership interest,

1536
02:27:28,006 --> 02:27:32,028
um, and then finally, you know, the Four Seasons, the Four Seasons does not have

1537
02:27:32,053 --> 02:27:39,089
a lot of meeting space and, um, and so we've heard informally from them that, you

1538
02:27:39,089 --> 02:27:44,056
know, there's an interest in building collaboration. So I think there's a lot of,

1539
02:27:45,014 --> 02:27:50,044
a lot of opportunity here. And Scott just recited half of our to do list coming out

1540
02:27:50,044 --> 02:27:56,043
of the meeting yesterday of who we're gonna meet with and uh we, we wanna be inclusive

1541
02:27:56,049 --> 02:28:01,002
because when you pick one hotel partner, then obviously the sales effort would bias

1542
02:28:01,032 --> 02:28:05,084
towards filling those rooms and so we have to think that through, but uh the more

1543
02:28:05,084 --> 02:28:10,016
the merrier, but we're gonna have conversations with those folks and the enhancement,

1544
02:28:10,033 --> 02:28:15,058
you know, if the upgrade is a multi-million dollar project, it's not. Yeah, it's

1545
02:28:15,058 --> 02:28:19,098
not small potatoes here, right? And, and Rick, one more thing on your, on your comments,

1546
02:28:20,003 --> 02:28:27,056
um, you know, the, the current contract is up 1231 of 26. One of the things we talked

1547
02:28:27,056 --> 02:28:32,012
about as a working group is we really want to move that to the offseason, so maybe

1548
02:28:32,012 --> 02:28:37,071
it's more appropriate at this point to try to extend our existing contract until

1549
02:28:38,009 --> 02:28:42,036
the end of the season so that when we do have the next turnover, it's during the

1550
02:28:42,036 --> 02:28:48,036
offseason and we don't have to disrupt the winter season with a contract negotiation.

1551
02:28:50,019 --> 02:28:55,014
Yeah, that would make absolute sense. Thanks. I just wanted to follow back up on

1552
02:28:55,014 --> 02:28:59,002
one point that Elaine asked and, and when you look at this directly and this is what

1553
02:28:59,002 --> 02:29:03,028
the working group talked about yesterday, um, you know, you, when you look at this

1554
02:29:03,028 --> 02:29:07,068
and you see a bottom line and you see what the contribution is, you know, it's sometimes

1555
02:29:07,068 --> 02:29:14,000
scary, but what this doesn't factor in is what we're drawing in in sales tax to offset

1556
02:29:14,000 --> 02:29:21,002
this so we're talking about how we can actually value that and also value. The community

1557
02:29:21,002 --> 02:29:26,046
benefits as well so that it's just uh you know when you just look at this it's, it's

1558
02:29:26,046 --> 02:29:32,046
shocking but um mostly municipalities run these sorts of things to drive the ancillary

1559
02:29:32,046 --> 02:29:37,013
benefits and finding a way it's a lot easier when you have a lodging property with

1560
02:29:37,013 --> 02:29:42,001
a conference center to value what those are so, um, that's something we'll be working

1561
02:29:42,001 --> 02:29:47,085
at during this next year. So why don't we add, add that in. So you, you got the,

1562
02:29:47,099 --> 02:29:53,014
you got the lodging tax, you got the restaurant, restaurant tax, you have the sales

1563
02:29:53,014 --> 02:29:59,098
tax, yeah, so it's not a ton of money, but I mean when we start evaluating there,

1564
02:30:00,016 --> 02:30:04,077
this, I think you should have a line item for what we estimate those taxes to be,

1565
02:30:05,034 --> 02:30:11,039
and then, you know, yeah, they've been doing movie night and You know, yeah, because

1566
02:30:11,039 --> 02:30:16,015
those things, those, those are the hardest to value is the community element. So

1567
02:30:16,015 --> 02:30:21,051
the first thought was to go back in and value those as to what they would have cost

1568
02:30:21,051 --> 02:30:27,094
in, in dollars if it wasn't for a community event or a nonprofit to see kind of what.

1569
02:30:28,009 --> 02:30:32,056
What the true picture looks like if you were a completely for-profit.

1570
02:30:34,063 --> 02:30:40,046
Yeah, and I think we should aspire to that. I think complexity comes when trying

1571
02:30:40,046 --> 02:30:47,006
to identify the portion of our sales tax and other hospitality revenues that's truly

1572
02:30:47,006 --> 02:30:51,044
incremental and driven by, you know, the groups that are brought into the conference

1573
02:30:51,044 --> 02:30:56,046
center. Because I've seen analysis in the past that says, oh hey, it's 60% occupancy.

1574
02:30:56,056 --> 02:31:01,046
Well, our normal summer occupancy is close to that, so what kind of bump did we really

1575
02:31:01,046 --> 02:31:07,006
get here? And there's a non-monetary benefit too because they're patronizing our

1576
02:31:07,006 --> 02:31:10,007
restaurants and while I see it through, through the sales tax and lodging tax and

1577
02:31:10,007 --> 02:31:16,089
uh excuse me, uh, etc. um, it's keeping them afloat. It's, it's bringing customers

1578
02:31:16,091 --> 02:31:21,009
to their, to our local businesses. Yeah, and I think that that type of analysis is

1579
02:31:21,009 --> 02:31:25,098
something that the TDB can help us with also. I mean, they run those kind of economic

1580
02:31:25,098 --> 02:31:30,003
impact reports. There are, you know, there are assumptions that need to be made,

1581
02:31:30,039 --> 02:31:34,018
right? But we can, we can extrapolate from number of attendees and what our occupancy

1582
02:31:34,018 --> 02:31:39,026
is and ADRs and things like that and at least have some contextual, contextual numbers

1583
02:31:39,026 --> 02:31:40,087
that we could, could look at.

1584
02:31:46,043 --> 02:31:48,034
JD means the rest of you.

1585
02:31:52,003 --> 02:31:58,085
It's, it's we until 5 o'clock. The grand we thanks JD. I, it's kind of like just

1586
02:31:58,085 --> 02:32:02,077
robbing Peter to pay Paul though because you're just taking revenue that's sitting

1587
02:32:02,077 --> 02:32:07,089
somewhere else and attributing it over here, so it's not really like growing the

1588
02:32:07,089 --> 02:32:15,045
revenue. So I do prefer seeing it like it's a standalone business entity versus moving

1589
02:32:15,045 --> 02:32:21,052
those funds from the tourism. PNL statement, yeah, we, we wouldn't move them. It

1590
02:32:21,052 --> 02:32:26,083
would just be kind of an analysis experiment, yeah, but I do, but I do disagree slightly

1591
02:32:26,085 --> 02:32:29,097
on the fact that it doesn't generate revenues because when a group comes in here,

1592
02:32:30,005 --> 02:32:34,072
those are people that wouldn't necessarily be visitors at the time. So if we can

1593
02:32:34,072 --> 02:32:39,099
back into what You know, the average person is spending and how many people are coming

1594
02:32:39,099 --> 02:32:44,051
to the community solely because they have an event at the conference center. I think

1595
02:32:44,051 --> 02:32:49,011
that that probably there is some growth associated with that, probably. It's, it's,

1596
02:32:49,016 --> 02:32:55,039
it's not, it's not a huge number, but it does drive traffic. But I, but I also think

1597
02:32:55,039 --> 02:33:01,067
about, you know, some of those people that come here for an event or uh whatever

1598
02:33:01,067 --> 02:33:06,026
it is through the conference center, it may be their first time in the region. And

1599
02:33:06,028 --> 02:33:12,039
as Dan pointed out, a group, his group from college went to Jackson Hole 30 some

1600
02:33:12,039 --> 02:33:16,031
years ago and I've been going ever since. How do you, how do you value that? You

1601
02:33:16,031 --> 02:33:22,091
know, I think we can catch year 0, year 1, because the TTB can give us average spend

1602
02:33:22,091 --> 02:33:29,035
per group person and to your point, at least let's put it in a footnote, um, because

1603
02:33:29,035 --> 02:33:34,019
I think it would show this to be a, a, a net positive before we even start to think

1604
02:33:34,019 --> 02:33:35,069
about all the public benefits.

1605
02:33:38,077 --> 02:33:40,023
Anything else on Conference Center?

1606
02:33:42,057 --> 02:33:48,048
OK. May I please add that there's cake for JD's last day. Oh, that's right, for anyone

1607
02:33:48,057 --> 02:33:55,038
at JD's favorite cake is over here. I mean, if I may just very quickly, I do just

1608
02:33:55,038 --> 02:33:59,005
wanna say thank you. I'm incredibly grateful for my time here in Mountain Village.

1609
02:33:59,055 --> 02:34:03,029
I've, I've had incredible support. I've learned a tremendous amount both from our

1610
02:34:03,079 --> 02:34:07,072
amazing staff and the people that have sat in your seats over the years. You know,

1611
02:34:07,008 --> 02:34:12,005
I'm making this change for a personal reason, but I, um, it's been an incredible

1612
02:34:12,005 --> 02:34:15,067
run, and I, I leave just feeling really grateful for my time here and the opportunity

1613
02:34:15,067 --> 02:34:20,059
to serve, uh, this community. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you, JD.

1614
02:34:25,044 --> 02:34:30,071
I don't have to let you win at curling anymore. Sorry, Harvey, did you have something?

1615
02:34:31,048 --> 02:34:34,026
I, I said JD will be back. It's just a question of time.

1616
02:35:00,066 --> 02:35:06,048
So Amy's uh first department under community development. In front of you is the

1617
02:35:06,048 --> 02:35:07,012
building department.

1618
02:35:10,032 --> 02:35:16,099
I do remember we mentioned earlier oops we mentioned earlier that one person from

1619
02:35:16,099 --> 02:35:22,066
Amy's depart oh no this is not this department I apologize uh we're we're in building

1620
02:35:22,068 --> 02:35:27,067
yeah I'm sorry in a building and planning you'll see um a decrease in wages year

1621
02:35:27,067 --> 02:35:32,074
over year that is. Basically due to we had a transition of a retiring employee with

1622
02:35:32,074 --> 02:35:37,053
a PTA with a PTO payout which you know runs through current operations not through

1623
02:35:37,091 --> 02:35:44,003
um the balance sheet but next year the department is now full so that is a great

1624
02:35:44,003 --> 02:35:51,091
thing for Amy. So this is Lars Connor. Erin, Erin and Tracy and Tracy and Jane

1625
02:35:51,091 --> 02:35:56,087
used to be with the department before she retired. Um, the biggest piece in here

1626
02:35:56,087 --> 02:36:03,013
is that they have a budget annually for consultation for help with review of large

1627
02:36:03,013 --> 02:36:07,024
projects, and some of those didn't come through this year and they didn't need as

1628
02:36:07,026 --> 02:36:10,044
much, but there are a lot of multi-family projects and larger projects coming through.

1629
02:36:10,065 --> 02:36:13,024
Next year, so that budget's been bumped back up.

1630
02:36:17,094 --> 02:36:22,009
The thing I'm, I'm most interested in, it kind of doesn't appear in the dollars and

1631
02:36:22,009 --> 02:36:28,084
cents. I'm just interested in your characterization of how responsive we're being,

1632
02:36:29,001 --> 02:36:34,025
um, what kind of waitlists or waiting times do we have when something big or even

1633
02:36:34,025 --> 02:36:39,038
just plain old single-family residence. Um, so they have to sit around for 34 months

1634
02:36:39,038 --> 02:36:44,026
before they get your attention, or? Yeah, so that actually probably falls more underneath

1635
02:36:44,026 --> 02:36:49,022
the planning department and design review. Um, uh, I can just sort of explain in

1636
02:36:49,022 --> 02:36:56,003
terms of the, the building department permitting process, um, goes quicker than most

1637
02:36:56,003 --> 02:37:00,098
municipalities out there. So depending on it's, it's hard because we have one plan

1638
02:37:00,098 --> 02:37:06,098
reviewer that's Lars, um. And then we do subcontract with SHMSCODA for the commercial

1639
02:37:06,098 --> 02:37:13,005
properties, um, but generally we can get through a plan review in a number of weeks

1640
02:37:13,023 --> 02:37:17,098
and issue a permit. Um, when things get held up, it's because we've made a request

1641
02:37:17,098 --> 02:37:22,044
of that applicant for something and it takes them a while to get a, you know, an

1642
02:37:22,044 --> 02:37:27,003
engineer letter or whatever that is, but in terms of our internal process and getting

1643
02:37:27,002 --> 02:37:32,059
building permits through the system, it's, it's fairly quick, couple of weeks usually.

1644
02:37:33,051 --> 02:37:36,074
Larger projects like the Four Seasons take a little bit more work.

1645
02:37:39,053 --> 02:37:42,096
Um, and if you want me to address the planning side of things, I can just, I can

1646
02:37:42,096 --> 02:37:49,007
say what that is now. Um, we're generally, we're just a couple of months out, so,

1647
02:37:49,029 --> 02:37:54,061
um, we have a required noticing process for most projects, and that's either 15 or

1648
02:37:54,061 --> 02:38:02,048
30 days. Um, uh, for, for most applications, um, there's also a required referral

1649
02:38:02,048 --> 02:38:06,092
process in advance of that where we send it out, uh, once we deem an application

1650
02:38:06,092 --> 02:38:13,081
complete and that is a kind of a 21 day process, so, um, so we're, we're about a

1651
02:38:13,081 --> 02:38:19,065
month beyond that, you know, required minimum. Right now in terms of waiting for

1652
02:38:19,065 --> 02:38:24,065
applications, um, I would expect that we kind of ebb and flow as the as the seasons

1653
02:38:24,065 --> 02:38:29,086
go on. We have a little bit of a quiet time right now and then sort of midwinter

1654
02:38:29,098 --> 02:38:33,069
the folks that are trying to get in the ground next summer all of a sudden start

1655
02:38:33,069 --> 02:38:37,076
throwing us applications and we tend to back up a little bit more then, um, but right

1656
02:38:37,078 --> 02:38:39,021
now it's a pretty short timeline.

1657
02:38:42,055 --> 02:38:47,055
Have we ever considered a I, I, I just think my time on council, we had a number

1658
02:38:47,055 --> 02:38:53,091
of projects like um Rosewood, Sixth Senses, where we spend probably quite a bit of

1659
02:38:53,091 --> 02:39:01,061
time getting to approval, and then it sits. And could we Have a

1660
02:39:01,061 --> 02:39:06,088
sunset maybe 2 or 3 years and if you don't go forward, you gotta start over again.

1661
02:39:07,006 --> 02:39:11,085
We do that's absolutely already baked into the code um for a regular single family.

1662
02:39:12,004 --> 02:39:17,099
Home it's 18 months and then um with our larger projects those generally ask for

1663
02:39:17,099 --> 02:39:21,087
what's called a vested property rights and a standard vested property right is 3

1664
02:39:21,087 --> 02:39:25,068
years um they can certainly ask for more but that would be at the discretion of council

1665
02:39:26,000 --> 02:39:30,043
so those expire if they don't um move within that period of time then they need to

1666
02:39:30,043 --> 02:39:32,007
come back to us and we do that quite often.

1667
02:39:34,077 --> 02:39:39,048
So like 6 senses we must be approaching 3 years. That one's a little bit more complicated.

1668
02:39:39,053 --> 02:39:45,064
Built into that development agreement was a clause that stated that um the the vested

1669
02:39:45,064 --> 02:39:52,054
property right clock didn't start to tick until um any existing litigation. had been

1670
02:39:52,054 --> 02:39:58,029
settled. So although it's been a number of years since that was entitled, um, the

1671
02:39:58,029 --> 02:40:03,037
clock has not started because it has been in litigation since then. We do expect

1672
02:40:03,037 --> 02:40:08,077
that any day to be wrapped up, um, and then it'll have a 3 year period of vesting.

1673
02:40:09,094 --> 02:40:13,003
But you don't need to believe us because we've been telling you that for 3 years.

1674
02:40:16,005 --> 02:40:17,069
I'll let David weigh in on that.

1675
02:40:21,083 --> 02:40:24,007
So that, I mean, that's it from the building department. It's pretty much business

1676
02:40:24,007 --> 02:40:25,045
as usual.

1677
02:40:27,055 --> 02:40:33,003
And in the planning department, you'll see in their master planning line item, there's

1678
02:40:33,003 --> 02:40:40,062
$50,000 for the remaining RFP for the pond lot improvement community engagement piece,

1679
02:40:41,007 --> 02:40:48,041
um, as well as, um, project management assistance for the pond lot, um,

1680
02:40:48,059 --> 02:40:55,008
construction piece, planning and construction. Um, aside from that, oh, sorry, go

1681
02:40:55,008 --> 02:41:00,036
on. Are there any, any, uh, funds that need to be budgeted for the completion of

1682
02:41:00,036 --> 02:41:06,041
the readdressing, or that's on, that's on that's pacing correctly. I'll note that

1683
02:41:06,041 --> 02:41:11,049
we did increase that budget item. Um, one of the complaints that we've received in

1684
02:41:11,049 --> 02:41:16,055
the community was that when we do have to get, so there's two points to readdressing,

1685
02:41:16,074 --> 02:41:20,041
um, some folks just need to change their number on their house, but we're not changing

1686
02:41:20,041 --> 02:41:24,049
the road. When we change a road name, some of those roads have been private and it's

1687
02:41:24,049 --> 02:41:30,004
been on the HOA. To, um, to put up a new road sign or potentially a street light,

1688
02:41:30,026 --> 02:41:36,000
and that's a pretty big unexpected expense for those folks. So looking at the schedule

1689
02:41:36,000 --> 02:41:39,097
for readdressing for next year, we want to incorporate some additional funding to

1690
02:41:39,097 --> 02:41:44,016
help with the, um, that piece of the, the cost to the homeowners.

1691
02:41:49,002 --> 02:41:55,021
And I guess what did we budget for scenario A, B, or C since they were we budgeted

1692
02:41:55,021 --> 02:42:00,081
for right now what's in there is what we received in um contribution from the Four

1693
02:42:00,081 --> 02:42:06,005
Seasons and the permitting process. So there is not any additional funds budgeted

1694
02:42:06,005 --> 02:42:11,082
yet. And I would say that actually we broke that up over two years, so it's not all

1695
02:42:11,082 --> 02:42:16,014
shown in 27. A portion of it is shown in 27, a smaller portion and a bigger portion

1696
02:42:16,014 --> 02:42:21,014
in 28, which is how I kind of foresee that construction of that being we would kind

1697
02:42:21,014 --> 02:42:25,098
of get the underground stuff done in 27 and then the bigger, more, you know, impactful

1698
02:42:25,098 --> 02:42:31,014
actual improvements to the pond edge in 28, um, but right now between those two years

1699
02:42:31,014 --> 02:42:35,089
we're just showing the $500,000. Distribution from the Four Seasons, um, if we go

1700
02:42:35,091 --> 02:42:40,003
with the Cadillac version, we will be coming back to council asking for an additional

1701
02:42:40,003 --> 02:42:47,038
appropriation with hopefully additional funding supports from our partners and

1702
02:42:47,038 --> 02:42:54,034
um TMVOA had expressed interest in expanding the consulting work to include the wider

1703
02:42:54,034 --> 02:43:01,027
plaza. Is that sharing the cost of that in here at all? No, so, um, the way that

1704
02:43:01,029 --> 02:43:06,015
that's happening right now, Scott, is that they are engaging with design where they're

1705
02:43:06,015 --> 02:43:12,009
requesting a proposal from Design Workshop to run an alternate project in alignment

1706
02:43:12,009 --> 02:43:18,066
with ours they would be funding that, um. Entirely we're we're sort of contracted

1707
02:43:19,012 --> 02:43:23,053
um in a couple of different ways that makes it difficult for us to change the scope

1708
02:43:23,053 --> 02:43:27,047
of the project that's already in motion um but we feel pretty confident that we can

1709
02:43:27,047 --> 02:43:31,053
work together with them as they as they try to expand the scope on their dime.

1710
02:43:35,081 --> 02:43:36,063
Oh Scott, you're.

1711
02:43:42,098 --> 02:43:49,065
We're, we're still in planning, right, and that includes the forestry, and it looks

1712
02:43:49,065 --> 02:43:54,025
like we moved 124,000 from one line item to a different one, yeah, and those line,

1713
02:43:54,046 --> 02:43:58,017
those line items will continue to flip depending on the work that you're at they're

1714
02:43:58,017 --> 02:44:02,093
able to finish during the year. So there's hazard tree removal. There's work on the

1715
02:44:02,093 --> 02:44:07,008
shaded fuel brake. And all that, so I, I, I thought there was an appetite from council,

1716
02:44:07,085 --> 02:44:14,066
and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, for increasing our forest management. Um,

1717
02:44:15,004 --> 02:44:22,077
taking more, you know, Fuel up So what we have seen an increase in is the um TMBOA

1718
02:44:23,001 --> 02:44:28,009
commitments to forestry and fire defensive projects and those are basically you'll

1719
02:44:28,009 --> 02:44:34,045
see those in the defensive space rebates um we increased that quite a bit this year

1720
02:44:34,051 --> 02:44:41,058
um with funding from TMBOA they're also funding $40,000 of contracted defensive space

1721
02:44:41,058 --> 02:44:46,078
assessments to kind of keep people moving along that. And then a new program they

1722
02:44:46,078 --> 02:44:52,006
have funded $100,000 in vacant lot dead tree removal. So those are, um, that's about

1723
02:44:52,006 --> 02:44:55,046
a half a million dollar expansion in our forestry fire mitigation. Yeah, I just,

1724
02:44:55,055 --> 02:44:59,007
I couldn't quite find it, but yeah. And then the, the other major change in that

1725
02:44:59,007 --> 02:45:06,061
budget is to consolidate, um, three seasonal positions into one FT. But

1726
02:45:06,061 --> 02:45:12,072
also Dan, to your point, the um There's a line that says forestry contract hazard

1727
02:45:12,072 --> 02:45:19,056
tree removal, and that goes from $76,000 to $200,000. Yeah, and that's just a flip

1728
02:45:19,056 --> 02:45:25,084
kind of we have budgeted in the last, um, few years about $750,000 a year because

1729
02:45:25,084 --> 02:45:33,057
that was what was sustainable. By the team what they could actually complete so those

1730
02:45:33,057 --> 02:45:38,061
will just they kind of flip back and forth as projects come up. So I think and directly

1731
02:45:38,061 --> 02:45:44,093
that comes from originally the VCA funding was not under contract tree removal. It

1732
02:45:44,093 --> 02:45:49,021
was in the general forestry budget we've moved it into the contract tree removal

1733
02:45:49,021 --> 02:45:53,074
portion. Um, uh, you know, a few years back we had one line for forestry. We're kind

1734
02:45:53,074 --> 02:45:57,006
of trying to figure out the best way to manage and track on those funds, especially

1735
02:45:57,006 --> 02:46:02,008
as it relates to the income that comes in from DMBOA, um, so it's sort of a work

1736
02:46:02,008 --> 02:46:08,014
in progress. Is it safe to say in total, we're gonna spend over a million dollars

1737
02:46:08,025 --> 02:46:15,034
on Forestry fire mitigation. Yeah, I think absolutely and especially when you consider

1738
02:46:15,097 --> 02:46:21,014
labor which is included in the department labor for the whole thing. And one thing

1739
02:46:21,014 --> 02:46:28,045
I will say on here that um as we were going through here, I um In addition to Scott's

1740
02:46:28,045 --> 02:46:34,078
improvement of the bottom line by $16,000 I just realized that um I don't have the

1741
02:46:34,078 --> 02:46:40,039
shaded fuel break grant money in yet. So that's gonna improve as I was about to ask

1742
02:46:40,041 --> 02:46:40,076
that.

1743
02:46:43,017 --> 02:46:48,092
So how much is that? That's a lot, right? It's 50% of what we did. So in 2025 we

1744
02:46:48,092 --> 02:46:54,072
got about just under 300,000. So it depends on what we compete each year. That's

1745
02:46:54,072 --> 02:47:00,037
a big hit, yeah, roughly 200 something per year over four years. Yeah. So I, um.

1746
02:47:01,015 --> 02:47:05,082
I think that we can actually when we start talking about the consolidated budget

1747
02:47:05,082 --> 02:47:12,092
we need to consider that in uh. And just a quick comment along Jurassic Trail, it

1748
02:47:12,092 --> 02:47:16,054
is amazing. If you haven't been over there, take a look at what's been going on.

1749
02:47:16,063 --> 02:47:22,032
It's the amount of clearing of dead fall and standing dead is just amazing and the

1750
02:47:22,032 --> 02:47:26,089
number of piles. There's gonna be a lot of, uh, a lot of ways to generate heat. Deep

1751
02:47:26,089 --> 02:47:32,013
this winter because there are a lot of piles over there. Yeah, yeah, and we'll be

1752
02:47:32,013 --> 02:47:36,057
seeing um some similar work here around VCA starting here in the next couple of weeks.

1753
02:47:36,009 --> 02:47:41,089
And Amy, those the piles of logs, what, what happens with those? They get burned.

1754
02:47:43,036 --> 02:47:48,074
The actual stacks. So, yeah, so what you'll see is you'll see piles and it's hard

1755
02:47:48,074 --> 02:47:52,043
to, to know which ones are the ones that are gonna burn and then which are the feeder

1756
02:47:52,043 --> 02:47:58,039
piles. So, um, not every single one gets burned in its, in its spot. Um, you have

1757
02:47:58,039 --> 02:48:02,005
to have the correct canopy and opening and it can't be underneath trees, etc. But

1758
02:48:02,005 --> 02:48:05,071
because there's so much material in there, the way to handle it is to stack them

1759
02:48:05,071 --> 02:48:12,007
all up in these 8 ft by 8 ft, you know, cones basically. Um, and then they utilize

1760
02:48:12,007 --> 02:48:17,059
those feeder piles into the main fire and so probably, you know, 2 out of every 3

1761
02:48:17,059 --> 02:48:23,034
are just, are just fuel that get added to a specific burn spot. Got it. Thank you.

1762
02:48:23,008 --> 02:48:29,035
Break some marshmallows. Seriously, hey, there's a, there's an economic development

1763
02:48:29,035 --> 02:48:29,007
idea.

1764
02:48:31,018 --> 02:48:31,069
OK.

1765
02:48:34,025 --> 02:48:41,045
Anything else? Or should we do move to grants, move to grants. Um, thank you. Thanks,

1766
02:48:41,005 --> 02:48:47,016
Amy. Uh, over the last few years, additional grants have come up that the town has

1767
02:48:47,022 --> 02:48:52,085
awarded or contributions due to extenuating circumstances, but in the last year,

1768
02:48:52,098 --> 02:48:58,024
if you excluded the steady grant and the Good Neighbor Fund, which were both related

1769
02:48:58,003 --> 02:49:04,029
to the economic disruption of the strike in ski resort, the town, uh, closure, the

1770
02:49:04,029 --> 02:49:11,066
town spent about $230,000 in grants and contributions to the community we are locked

1771
02:49:11,066 --> 02:49:18,098
into the um contribution to the shed right now under our current MOU and um I for

1772
02:49:18,098 --> 02:49:24,098
budgeting purposes I kept us at that same grant level. I will say that we have received

1773
02:49:24,098 --> 02:49:28,003
$297,000 in.

1774
02:49:30,009 --> 02:49:36,045
200 and oh there you are you you are on there too $297,000 in grant requests for

1775
02:49:36,045 --> 02:49:41,061
the upcoming year which I think is right about in line with what you saw last year

1776
02:49:41,061 --> 02:49:49,007
too. I believe a little bit higher. So, you know, looking for council

1777
02:49:49,007 --> 02:49:55,018
direction on um where you'd like to see that and I think also it's, it's nice to

1778
02:49:55,018 --> 02:50:00,021
remember and I think either Scott or Harvey pointed this out last year that aside

1779
02:50:00,021 --> 02:50:06,083
from Just these community grants, the town does provide a large contribution to supporting

1780
02:50:06,083 --> 02:50:12,016
childcare in the area as well and it's not seen here but it should be recognized

1781
02:50:12,016 --> 02:50:18,063
that this council has allocated so much funding to that as well. So it's likely in

1782
02:50:18,063 --> 02:50:25,088
the next year or two, the hospital is gonna be. Coming Looking for

1783
02:50:26,000 --> 02:50:32,048
contributions, have we factored that in at all? No. No, we've, the last one we had

1784
02:50:32,048 --> 02:50:37,068
was, um, I believe it was 2023 where the communities came together. Is it likely

1785
02:50:37,068 --> 02:50:39,092
to be the grant committee that'll be involved in that?

1786
02:50:43,041 --> 02:50:49,016
Um, I think if we were to make up Capital contribution to the med center, it would

1787
02:50:49,016 --> 02:50:56,083
come to the council. Yeah, it would be larger. It would be a, a much the

1788
02:50:56,083 --> 02:51:03,072
grant committee decided. Last year that we didn't feel like the med center belonged

1789
02:51:03,072 --> 02:51:10,026
in this. Yeah. So I don't think they sort of already got their. Been a couple of

1790
02:51:10,026 --> 02:51:17,000
years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess my one statement as a guest grant committee

1791
02:51:17,002 --> 02:51:22,057
member, I think Rick is the new grant committee member too, is um we're likely to

1792
02:51:22,057 --> 02:51:29,076
see that the need for grants expands, so I do think we should consider maybe not

1793
02:51:29,078 --> 02:51:34,029
keeping it flat. I don't know that we wanna fund it all the way up to the ask level,

1794
02:51:34,042 --> 02:51:40,034
but I think that's gonna keep being a need. Is there I'm not sure you have in there

1795
02:51:40,034 --> 02:51:45,096
right now, Elizabeth. Pardon me. What's, uh, how much do you have in there right

1796
02:51:45,098 --> 02:51:50,081
now, Elizabeth? I have $230,000 which is kind of been the target over the last couple

1797
02:51:50,081 --> 02:51:57,012
of years before we had, um, some extra requests or need from the community. Uh, but

1798
02:51:57,003 --> 02:52:03,013
of that 230, we do have shed funding which we're currently have an MOU with the shed

1799
02:52:03,013 --> 02:52:09,037
on. So, basically the grants, the miscellaneous grants and contributions in this

1800
02:52:09,037 --> 02:52:16,014
budget are $203,000. You know, I'll just go ahead.

1801
02:52:17,031 --> 02:52:21,078
Go ahead. Well, I, I was just gonna say one of the big changes is obviously we didn't,

1802
02:52:21,096 --> 02:52:26,071
we gave uh the Good Neighbor Fund $100,000 last year and we're not carrying that

1803
02:52:26,071 --> 02:52:31,059
forward. Um, and I think that makes sense, but, uh, just from the perspective of

1804
02:52:31,059 --> 02:52:38,046
the Telluride Foundation, they are seeing much higher levels of ash than historically.

1805
02:52:38,076 --> 02:52:43,043
We attributed some of it to the strike and the mountain closure, but And I'm not

1806
02:52:43,043 --> 02:52:47,031
getting political here, but, but the social safety net has been declining in our

1807
02:52:47,031 --> 02:52:52,095
region pretty significantly. The SNAP program has been reduced. The Medicare and

1808
02:52:52,095 --> 02:52:58,028
Medicaid program has been reduced, and so from the foundation's perspective, they're

1809
02:52:58,028 --> 02:53:04,099
expecting increasing ask for support directly to our, our residents. I don't think

1810
02:53:04,099 --> 02:53:11,084
we do anything yet here, but just giving you a little context. I think another, I

1811
02:53:11,084 --> 02:53:16,081
think another important point for context is I've always viewed this budget line

1812
02:53:16,081 --> 02:53:23,004
item as saying, OK, there are certain, uh, uh, charitable organizations that do a

1813
02:53:23,004 --> 02:53:29,032
lot of, do a lot of good things, and it's sort of, to me it has to be connected to

1814
02:53:29,032 --> 02:53:34,047
Mountain Village and it has to be connected to maybe an extension of some services

1815
02:53:34,049 --> 02:53:41,094
that we would provide or um. Anyways, it has to be a direct relation to Our mission

1816
02:53:41,094 --> 02:53:47,002
as a government and what we would otherwise do, I don't think it's our job to just

1817
02:53:47,002 --> 02:53:53,004
basically give away taxpayer money because we think it's a good cause. Harvey, if,

1818
02:53:53,057 --> 02:53:58,056
if I may, um, having set up our grant review process with Susan for the committee,

1819
02:53:58,093 --> 02:54:03,052
one of the key criteria points is how does this serve the residents, the visitors,

1820
02:54:03,061 --> 02:54:08,083
and the businesses of Mountain Village, and, um, that is very much a part of the

1821
02:54:08,089 --> 02:54:15,041
grant conversation. During the review each year. And, and outlined in our um guidelines

1822
02:54:15,041 --> 02:54:15,009
as well.

1823
02:54:19,003 --> 02:54:25,063
Did we, did we ever get any information on how the shed is doing? So they have to,

1824
02:54:25,066 --> 02:54:30,082
they provide an annual report. I'm thinking that they'll, I, I believe I might, I

1825
02:54:30,082 --> 02:54:34,045
think it was at the intergovernmental meeting maybe they gave an update. I think

1826
02:54:34,045 --> 02:54:38,005
their demographic of high school actually shifted. They realized high school students

1827
02:54:38,005 --> 02:54:44,012
were too busy to hang out at the shed. And so it moved to middle school folks, but

1828
02:54:44,012 --> 02:54:48,024
it might, given their that we have ongoing funding, it might be nice to get an update

1829
02:54:48,024 --> 02:54:52,068
from them even if it's just written. I believe that um I do have something that I

1830
02:54:52,068 --> 02:54:58,044
can share with council and send out, um, a budget update that they sent with this

1831
02:54:58,044 --> 02:55:02,089
year's budget. Oh great. We'll circulate that. Was there a term on our commitment

1832
02:55:02,095 --> 02:55:08,094
for the shed? Um, I have to pull back up that MOU. I think we had a five-year in

1833
02:55:08,094 --> 02:55:15,072
the beginning. OK. Mm wow. Another question I have is I'm surprised the Wilkinson

1834
02:55:15,072 --> 02:55:21,084
Library is not out here. I mean, that's a tremendous resource to the community. They

1835
02:55:21,084 --> 02:55:26,084
have their own funding mechanism through a mill levy, I believe. So the museum and

1836
02:55:26,084 --> 02:55:32,032
the library and in the uh also in the case because I'm on the case board and tell

1837
02:55:32,032 --> 02:55:36,052
you right as well, those sorts of organizations with their own mill levy do not apply

1838
02:55:36,052 --> 02:55:40,068
for these programs but still partner with us through other avenues. Thank you. So

1839
02:55:40,068 --> 02:55:47,067
you are contributing. Good. Anything else on grants? Well, I guess the direction.

1840
02:55:47,084 --> 02:55:51,074
I'm sorry, I guess the only observation I'd make, and I would start with just an

1841
02:55:52,042 --> 02:55:59,003
acknowledgement that I run a nonprofit that is a recipient. So, um, there's something

1842
02:55:59,003 --> 02:56:03,045
of a conflict of interest here, but I did wanna just note that, you know, it's a

1843
02:56:03,045 --> 02:56:09,053
feature throughout our budget that things are growing at least by the rate of inflation,

1844
02:56:09,062 --> 02:56:16,037
if not more, and. You know, there's, there's really been no inflation index for,

1845
02:56:16,071 --> 02:56:18,078
for this particular line.

1846
02:56:21,064 --> 02:56:27,091
And to offer just one comparable number to Scott's point as the case chairperson

1847
02:56:27,091 --> 02:56:32,091
and also involved with application process here in the last handful of years case

1848
02:56:32,091 --> 02:56:40,024
had increased their grant allocation by 3 to 5% to Scott's point, sort of uh. Adjusting

1849
02:56:40,024 --> 02:56:46,028
to the market, um, and this is the first year we, the board has not requested an

1850
02:56:46,028 --> 02:56:52,093
increase due to town and Telluride's budget constraints, but we did see a 47%. We

1851
02:56:52,093 --> 02:56:57,057
saw a huge increase in us there. Organizations are hurting tremendously from the

1852
02:56:57,057 --> 02:57:03,026
strike and the snow year and just all the factors and I think if there was any way

1853
02:57:03,026 --> 02:57:08,022
for us to increase even by, you know, 3 to 5%, it would mean a lot to these organizations

1854
02:57:08,022 --> 02:57:12,091
because we've seen each. Organization increase their ass because they're seeing decreased

1855
02:57:12,091 --> 02:57:19,067
funding elsewhere and decreased revenues. So does the council have any direction

1856
02:57:19,067 --> 02:57:27,057
on what um Adjustment, if any, you would like to see in the funding. I

1857
02:57:27,057 --> 02:57:33,029
mean, from my perspective, and the new member to the grant committee, I think the

1858
02:57:33,029 --> 02:57:39,009
reason I was asking what amount was there, right, is, as you were recapping earlier,

1859
02:57:39,062 --> 02:57:44,093
I think initially the request started about 296, we ended up at 1825 was a recap

1860
02:57:44,093 --> 02:57:49,012
that Catherine provided. So we were able to shave it substantially, but I think,

1861
02:57:49,054 --> 02:57:55,025
um, the grant committee's meeting in early November, if the line item right now is

1862
02:57:55,025 --> 02:58:00,028
slightly below the ask, I would say, uh, um, my ask would be that we leave it there,

1863
02:58:00,073 --> 02:58:05,045
allow for the grant committee to meet in early November, review it, and then adjust

1864
02:58:05,045 --> 02:58:12,068
from there. Uh, my only thought on that is I would like to have some council direction

1865
02:58:12,068 --> 02:58:18,055
before that because in early November, we have our first reading of the budget. So,

1866
02:58:18,057 --> 02:58:21,048
if you're, you're, if you're thinking you wanna go to council at that time and ask

1867
02:58:21,048 --> 02:58:27,021
for additional funds, it would be nice to have a target now. That's usually helpful

1868
02:58:27,021 --> 02:58:33,047
for the review process as each grant member is, um, we know we have say 200,000 or

1869
02:58:33,007 --> 02:58:39,004
230,000 or whatever number you guys land on to allocate. Yeah, so excluding the shed

1870
02:58:39,004 --> 02:58:44,045
right now there's $203,000 allocated to these miscellaneous grants, and there are

1871
02:58:44,045 --> 02:58:49,064
grant requests of $2930 yeah, and $2000 of that budget line item goes to our grant

1872
02:58:49,064 --> 02:58:54,028
software, so it's roughly I took it out. Oh, you did. OK, great. So there's a $90,000

1873
02:58:54,028 --> 02:58:58,096
delta. So the question is, do, do you guys wanna come up $10,000 which would be like

1874
02:58:58,096 --> 02:59:02,008
5%, or do you have any appetite to go more than that because the grant committee

1875
02:59:02,008 --> 02:59:09,005
will generally kind of back in to that number. Just to throw a number out there,

1876
02:59:09,014 --> 02:59:15,084
if you said the historical norm is 3 to 5%, guess what? 4% feels about right. How'd

1877
02:59:15,084 --> 02:59:19,091
you come up with that? Yeah, yeah, meet me in the, meet me in the middle, um, and

1878
02:59:19,091 --> 02:59:25,055
it's not a massive amount of money. It's like what, $5000 more. I'm not getting my

1879
02:59:25,055 --> 02:59:30,059
math right. I'd be in favor. I'd be in favor of, I'd be in favor of 0.

1880
02:59:33,085 --> 02:59:38,076
That that was Harvey. That was Harvey and, and I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay out of

1881
02:59:38,076 --> 02:59:42,096
it. OK. I go for it.

1882
02:59:44,022 --> 02:59:51,089
1,00055%. All right, we got 4 head nods in the room around 5%.

1883
02:59:54,076 --> 03:00:02,000
I mean 5% on the 230, so that's 11 11.5 you're saying yeah that's uh it's 10,000

1884
03:00:02,019 --> 03:00:06,005
it's on the 203 so that would make it bring it up to 213.

1885
03:00:08,011 --> 03:00:15,075
But let's Harvey's a no, Scott's a uh libstein. Rick

1886
03:00:17,064 --> 03:00:25,006
Yes. I guess what they ask that are out there, um, What percentage or what amount

1887
03:00:25,006 --> 03:00:32,092
meets our criteria? At first review, most of the grants do meet that criteria

1888
03:00:32,092 --> 03:00:37,032
because they're repeat, um, grant recipients. There's a few new ones that we would

1889
03:00:37,032 --> 03:00:43,065
have to take a deeper look at, but some of them have upped their ask. You know By

1890
03:00:43,065 --> 03:00:48,006
5 to 10,000 based on, we haven't dived into their budget, their request, but it's,

1891
03:00:48,074 --> 03:00:54,005
the assumption is based on Um, cuts to revenue elsewhere and other grant sources,

1892
03:00:54,022 --> 03:00:59,042
especially at the federal level, as we're all well aware. But we could, we would

1893
03:00:59,042 --> 03:01:03,002
have a better idea of that after the November meeting and could include it in that

1894
03:01:03,002 --> 03:01:04,022
first reading of the budget.

1895
03:01:10,093 --> 03:01:10,094
OK

1896
03:01:13,093 --> 03:01:19,091
Right. Elizabeth, do you have your direction? Uh yes, I do. Awesome. All right, let's

1897
03:01:19,091 --> 03:01:20,034
move on.

1898
03:01:22,041 --> 03:01:25,008
Transportation and parking. It's the Lobi show. We get Lobi back.

1899
03:01:31,029 --> 03:01:36,064
I don't know what you wanna go through on this. Um, For parking, assuming no rate

1900
03:01:36,064 --> 03:01:43,004
changes right now over next year, as well as continuing along with the summer free

1901
03:01:43,004 --> 03:01:50,044
parking on the weekends. So we'll see um some adjustments. In that portion and related.

1902
03:01:50,074 --> 03:01:55,001
You also have um the Meadows lot improvements that we talked about earlier in the

1903
03:01:55,001 --> 03:01:59,036
capital budget with those offsetting grant funds. Again, those won't continue without

1904
03:02:00,078 --> 03:02:07,069
Funding. Uh, next year, it looks like the, the parking fund has not needed funding

1905
03:02:07,069 --> 03:02:13,021
from the general fund in the last 3 years, but it looks like next year we'll need

1906
03:02:13,003 --> 03:02:19,081
um $96,000 to keep that fund at a zero fund balance. And then the, it will continue

1907
03:02:19,081 --> 03:02:24,077
to build until we hit the um expansion if that happens.

1908
03:02:27,093 --> 03:02:31,076
Jim, Jim, I thought the, Jim, I thought the free parking on weekends was a trial

1909
03:02:31,076 --> 03:02:36,002
program. Do we have any data about that? Not at this time, Harvey.

1910
03:02:38,031 --> 03:02:42,062
I can give you some anecdotal data that, you know, that the garages are being used.

1911
03:02:42,071 --> 03:02:47,092
I haven't seen anything particular to North Village Center, uh, to indicate any increased

1912
03:02:47,092 --> 03:02:52,098
traffic there. But, uh, we'll get some trends together toward the end of the season

1913
03:02:52,098 --> 03:02:59,065
and let you know how that went. OK. I, I have had several merchants thank me, so.

1914
03:03:00,099 --> 03:03:08,087
There's that Um, I'll just say that I was, I guess, pleasantly surprised to,

1915
03:03:08,096 --> 03:03:15,028
um, to see the, um, So just to be, just to, just to be clear, we're, we're having

1916
03:03:15,028 --> 03:03:21,089
to transfer $60,000. I mean, I. You know, I have a different perspective on parking

1917
03:03:21,099 --> 03:03:26,001
maybe than than Harvey and that, you know, I think parking has, we talked about the

1918
03:03:26,001 --> 03:03:30,065
externalities of the conference center. I think parking has a lot of externalities,

1919
03:03:30,071 --> 03:03:34,043
you know, because people who use the parking, um, you know, they shop, they go to

1920
03:03:34,043 --> 03:03:42,042
restaurants, etc. and, um, you know, the fact that. The subsidy this year is

1921
03:03:42,068 --> 03:03:50,031
only $60,000 you know, to me is, is a good value. And um just to be clear,

1922
03:03:50,048 --> 03:03:54,095
there's not a subsidy projected for the end of the year for this fund, Scott. That's

1923
03:03:54,095 --> 03:04:01,019
the $60,000 that the parking fund pays the general fund for administration. So, oh,

1924
03:04:01,004 --> 03:04:06,099
OK, even better. So no subsidy at all, or no, $96,000 from the general fund. That's

1925
03:04:06,099 --> 03:04:13,085
for next year, correct, for next year and for this year it's 0. So if you average

1926
03:04:13,085 --> 03:04:18,095
that, you know, it's less than 50,000 a year, um, you know, for a parking program

1927
03:04:18,095 --> 03:04:24,081
that I think we, we have done a good job of keeping our rates approachable, especially

1928
03:04:24,081 --> 03:04:29,000
with like a few free hours and, and the free, free parking on weekends and things

1929
03:04:29,002 --> 03:04:35,073
like that, and you know, we, we talk a lot about how we boost economic vitality and

1930
03:04:35,073 --> 03:04:41,049
this seems to, to me. Parking is an economic vitality program.

1931
03:04:45,007 --> 03:04:50,094
Uh, so I've got a question about, um, uh, uh, salaries and wages. If I look at the

1932
03:04:50,094 --> 03:04:56,094
last page of the packet, it says the parking services group, uh, FTEs is down by

1933
03:04:56,094 --> 03:05:04,049
20% or from 333.35% to 3.15%, but the salaries and wages is up almost 27%.

1934
03:05:04,087 --> 03:05:10,005
Because we didn't have people in those roles last year. So that's why, that's a confusing

1935
03:05:10,052 --> 03:05:15,075
thing when you look at budget, when you compare forecast to next year's budget. We

1936
03:05:15,075 --> 03:05:19,064
were Tucker, we were for 26, we were full, fully budgeted for more employees and

1937
03:05:19,064 --> 03:05:24,008
we're actually able to hire, so we came in, we're coming in under budget on 26, but

1938
03:05:24,008 --> 03:05:28,043
then we're going back up to budget in 27, so it makes it look like it's a huge increase.

1939
03:05:28,061 --> 03:05:36,036
It's really no increase at all on the headcount page, the budget is not the forecast

1940
03:05:36,036 --> 03:05:41,006
budget, it's the original budget. Yes, got it correct, OK. So sometimes when you're

1941
03:05:41,006 --> 03:05:45,036
looking at the salary and wages increase unless there's been a change in headcount

1942
03:05:45,036 --> 03:05:51,036
in the department, it's, it's helpful to look at the original budget which is what

1943
03:05:51,036 --> 03:05:53,002
it would have been fully staffed.

1944
03:05:55,091 --> 03:06:03,017
Um, just, can you kind of walk through, we have $237,000 of salaries and wages. Um,

1945
03:06:03,046 --> 03:06:08,001
some of that 10% some of that is your salary, Jim, but what, what are the parking.

1946
03:06:08,086 --> 03:06:16,078
Um, staff, how do they spend their time? Um, during The peak season in the winter,

1947
03:06:16,081 --> 03:06:21,009
during the peak season in the summer, and then during the, the shoulder seasons.

1948
03:06:21,044 --> 03:06:25,084
Sure, so there's, there's a portion of that is that is myself and Michael Conklin,

1949
03:06:25,093 --> 03:06:30,096
and then, uh, we also have the CSOs baked in there 30% of the CSO salaries. I think

1950
03:06:30,096 --> 03:06:38,044
it's 65%, 65% of that is CSO salary, and then we have a full-time year-round parking

1951
03:06:38,044 --> 03:06:45,048
coordinator, uh, who. Manages the program, uh, who manages the day to day staffing.

1952
03:06:45,005 --> 03:06:49,069
Parking is highly dynamic, especially in the winter. The summer is not so exciting.

1953
03:06:50,009 --> 03:06:54,014
Um, they spend a lot of their time cleaning. Doing little maintenance projects all

1954
03:06:54,014 --> 03:06:57,009
around the parking structures, all of our public parking facilities, bus stops, they

1955
03:06:57,009 --> 03:07:01,005
kind of help out everywhere. But in the wintertime parking is super dynamic. We have

1956
03:07:01,005 --> 03:07:06,069
a full-time person in there and then several seasonals who we pull in to help out

1957
03:07:06,071 --> 03:07:12,026
during busy days, busy times. We try and staff up over the weekends between the hours

1958
03:07:12,026 --> 03:07:17,078
of 8 a.m. and 1 p.m. because that's our high. Inflow outflow, um, you know, when

1959
03:07:17,078 --> 03:07:22,019
we need, when most of our guest services interactions happen is during those hours.

1960
03:07:22,024 --> 03:07:26,059
They're helping people initiate parking sessions. Snow removal is a huge thing. We

1961
03:07:26,059 --> 03:07:32,007
assist the water department, you know, hand shoveling stairwells, walkways, so, you

1962
03:07:32,007 --> 03:07:38,032
know. We expect our day to day parking staff to be highly flexible on schedule, watch

1963
03:07:38,032 --> 03:07:44,044
the weather forecast, you know, staff up when we see the need, staff up on busy weekends,

1964
03:07:44,061 --> 03:07:50,012
ramp down early part of the week. So that's kind of the day to day to day parking

1965
03:07:50,012 --> 03:07:53,093
operation. Uh, we don't have seasonals on during the summer because we don't need

1966
03:07:53,093 --> 03:07:58,097
them. We just have basically one full-timer, uh, which that position's been vacant

1967
03:07:58,097 --> 03:08:02,092
for a few months now, but we just rehired for and we're training a new person there.

1968
03:08:03,038 --> 03:08:07,007
Uh, and we're really looking forward to having her on board. And then she's supported

1969
03:08:07,007 --> 03:08:13,042
by Michael and myself. And it might be helpful to know, Scott, that out of that 3.15

1970
03:08:13,042 --> 03:08:20,022
employees, only 1.55 are just parking people. And that is your year-round, which

1971
03:08:20,022 --> 03:08:26,034
is allocated at 80%, 20% to gondola, and then you have three seasonals and because

1972
03:08:26,034 --> 03:08:31,014
it's only a few months, it adds up to 0.75 employees. So, while that count looks

1973
03:08:31,014 --> 03:08:37,098
large, it's basically allocations. Got it. Super helpful. Thank you. Hey, Jim, at

1974
03:08:37,098 --> 03:08:42,003
one point on the parking committee, we talked about having signage somewhere down

1975
03:08:42,003 --> 03:08:49,069
at Society Turn that would be dynamic and say, you know, 200 vacant spots in Mountain

1976
03:08:49,069 --> 03:08:56,035
Village. We ever gonna do that? I would love to do that. I would love to do that.

1977
03:08:57,071 --> 03:09:02,001
You know, I would love to point all resort traffic to mountain village society turn

1978
03:09:02,001 --> 03:09:07,018
and then coming down the hill from the ski ranches. Uh. I don't think we're at that

1979
03:09:07,018 --> 03:09:10,067
point in our evolution yet. I think we need to wait till we get the parking garage

1980
03:09:10,067 --> 03:09:15,003
finished off before we really You know, make that kind of a commitment. And I think

1981
03:09:15,003 --> 03:09:18,095
it also is gonna require some buy-in from the town of Telluride. You know, I, I,

1982
03:09:19,012 --> 03:09:23,043
I don't know how CDOT's gonna feel about CDOT or the town of Telluride would feel

1983
03:09:23,043 --> 03:09:27,047
about, you know, pushing the traffic this way, even though it's in the scary expansion

1984
03:09:27,047 --> 03:09:32,084
agreements that, you know, Mountain Village was to absorb the, the resort inflow,

1985
03:09:33,036 --> 03:09:37,063
you know, daily parking inflow. So, but no, we're, it's absolutely on the radar.

1986
03:09:37,076 --> 03:09:43,001
Haven't made any plans to do anything. Haven't even talked to CDOT about it. You

1987
03:09:43,001 --> 03:09:48,063
know, kind of to Scott's point, it's a little bit of marketing to go with. You know,

1988
03:09:48,074 --> 03:09:55,087
and we did get Mountain Village on all the signs though. Down in Down in uh Placerville

1989
03:09:55,087 --> 03:10:02,089
and yeah, that was, that was a big deal, huh? That, that was a huge deal, I guess,

1990
03:10:03,007 --> 03:10:07,091
I guess the, the, the system would be something where, you know, every there'd be

1991
03:10:07,091 --> 03:10:13,013
a sensor in every space and it would know how many spaces are available and then

1992
03:10:13,031 --> 03:10:18,085
I guess you'd tie that to a sign. Down at Society Turn that would or maybe at the

1993
03:10:18,085 --> 03:10:22,084
entrance to the town that would indicate where this where the parking is yeah we

1994
03:10:22,084 --> 03:10:29,033
actually had a a a webinar with a guy from spot parking last month uh. As a service,

1995
03:10:29,036 --> 03:10:33,087
it's basically AI cameras and they've put those strategically placed in lots and

1996
03:10:33,087 --> 03:10:39,041
they can define parking spots, number of cars, and push reports out like that. So

1997
03:10:39,006 --> 03:10:43,007
we're, we're, we're looking at that and we would very much like that, uh, you know,

1998
03:10:43,012 --> 03:10:47,058
you go to a lot of areas and you see, I mean, Cherry Creek Mall has it, you know,

1999
03:10:48,032 --> 03:10:53,007
100 spots on level 1, 200 spots on level two, but it'd be really nice to be able

2000
03:10:53,007 --> 03:10:56,098
to provide that information to our guests. I think right now we know that on the

2001
03:10:56,098 --> 03:11:02,098
weekends. We're gonna be at 85% every weekend. We just kind of are an 85% is what,

2002
03:11:03,011 --> 03:11:07,029
you know, any consultant is gonna tell you is effectively full and parking becomes

2003
03:11:07,047 --> 03:11:12,066
very inefficient at that point. So right now we rely on humans. Um, as we get more

2004
03:11:12,066 --> 03:11:15,074
volume, we're gonna need to rely a lot more on technology, I would agree.

2005
03:11:23,046 --> 03:11:31,032
Health Service Bus service and this is where Pete has some questions. Um, uh, so

2006
03:11:31,032 --> 03:11:36,028
when you look at the bus department, this is where the salary of the employee that

2007
03:11:36,028 --> 03:11:43,024
we have, um, for the gondola planning project is, and that is shared with Smart,

2008
03:11:43,061 --> 03:11:50,008
um, Telluride and TMBOA in the town of Mountain Village. So net of that. Revenue

2009
03:11:50,008 --> 03:11:57,001
to offset. This department's budget is at about $315,000. So, I first wanted to make

2010
03:11:57,001 --> 03:12:02,096
that um point and I will add a note at the bottom so that it's easier to identify

2011
03:12:02,096 --> 03:12:10,031
that. But um I know that Pete would like to talk a little bit about combining forces

2012
03:12:10,033 --> 03:12:15,009
for more affordable. I, I just think there's an opportunity here. So we're, we're

2013
03:12:15,009 --> 03:12:22,054
spending over $800,000 between the bus and the Chola. TMBOA is spending $1000 on

2014
03:12:22,054 --> 03:12:29,077
dial a ride. I assume that dial a ride goes down to the meadows and You know, we're

2015
03:12:29,077 --> 03:12:35,065
basically just talking about, I think, primarily the Big Billy's population. So if

2016
03:12:35,065 --> 03:12:40,053
you could figure out a way to integrate those two transportation systems, is there

2017
03:12:40,053 --> 03:12:47,013
savings to be had? I think you see in the summertime way more Meadows residents relying

2018
03:12:47,013 --> 03:12:54,057
on the bus because it's, it's reliable, it's on time. There's not, so you're saying

2019
03:12:54,072 --> 03:12:59,009
dialer ride is not reliable? Well, I'm, I'm saying that dialer properties in the

2020
03:12:59,009 --> 03:13:04,084
meadows don't have dialer ride. Yeah, I never I never understood this. Yeah, so like

2021
03:13:04,088 --> 03:13:09,087
all the condo complexes don't have dialer. Yeah. You have to be, uh, yeah, dialer

2022
03:13:09,087 --> 03:13:14,035
ride is funded by the owners association and they serve predominantly owners with

2023
03:13:14,035 --> 03:13:19,063
some weird exceptions. A majority of our population are renters and they don't get

2024
03:13:19,063 --> 03:13:23,004
to use dialer ride. Many of them, so like Mountain View doesn't get dialer ride,

2025
03:13:23,019 --> 03:13:27,066
for example. I'm out. That's a question, not a statement, right? And like outlaws

2026
03:13:27,066 --> 03:13:31,018
doesn't get it. I don't think Fairway 4 gets it. I don't, I don't know, but I know

2027
03:13:31,018 --> 03:13:35,042
there's a lot of people and to be owners, and to be clear, I think that when the

2028
03:13:35,042 --> 03:13:39,005
town, Mob might know the history, when the town managed Dialeride, maybe it was a

2029
03:13:39,005 --> 03:13:44,002
little more equitable. I'm not really sure if the line was always drawn between ownership

2030
03:13:44,002 --> 03:13:51,006
and rental, um, but anyway. Uh, but just to go down a rabbit hole, you know, if,

2031
03:13:51,018 --> 03:13:55,049
if you live in a derestricted unit at Cassy Ridge, you probably will get dial a ride

2032
03:13:55,049 --> 03:14:00,046
and they're not gonna like kick you out of the, out of the cab. Um, but certainly

2033
03:14:00,098 --> 03:14:06,013
VCA Big Billy's don't get served by Dial a Ride and, and maybe some other properties

2034
03:14:06,013 --> 03:14:13,053
to your point. And Peter would say that. Dial a ride Has their busy times and they

2035
03:14:13,053 --> 03:14:18,061
don't necessarily correlate with the busy times for commuters for work and you know

2036
03:14:18,061 --> 03:14:23,089
8 a.m. for dialer ride is not a super busy time on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday,

2037
03:14:24,018 --> 03:14:29,074
I would say. So you're strengthening my case. Well, they, they don't have the capacity.

2038
03:14:29,081 --> 03:14:34,007
They don't bring on as many drivers. Telluride Express, who is the contract operator

2039
03:14:34,007 --> 03:14:38,054
for Dial a Ride, they don't bring on as many drivers. They, they have less capacity

2040
03:14:38,054 --> 03:14:44,058
available at the times that the Meadows population needs it the most. And so we ran

2041
03:14:44,058 --> 03:14:48,058
it, we run an express service down there. We double our service uh during the morning

2042
03:14:48,058 --> 03:14:53,046
hours, 6:30 to like 9 a.m. and then again in the afternoon just to accommodate that.

2043
03:14:53,059 --> 03:14:59,006
We're full. We run, we run a lot of people. It's, uh, you know, The buses are full.

2044
03:14:59,066 --> 03:15:05,025
That's a great way to say it. We're moving people. We do 65,000 passenger trips a

2045
03:15:05,025 --> 03:15:13,001
year and 98.6% of those are going to the meadows, um. You know, and they're not getting

2046
03:15:13,001 --> 03:15:20,058
off along the way. We're just, and then You know, we, we went out to RFP last year

2047
03:15:20,058 --> 03:15:27,006
at the request of uh the mayor and their hourly rate that was there by revenue service

2048
03:15:27,006 --> 03:15:31,022
hours double what we were on the service for. And it was the same operator. We put

2049
03:15:31,022 --> 03:15:35,003
it out to bid. We had one responsive bidder, Federal Express, and they were double,

2050
03:15:35,035 --> 03:15:41,074
and we thought they'd be mildly competitive and it wasn't even close. So, so you

2051
03:15:41,074 --> 03:15:46,038
don't see an opportunity. I assume running the chandola in the summer would be more

2052
03:15:46,038 --> 03:15:51,004
expensive than running the bus. Well, when you, when you look at the Chondla budget,

2053
03:15:51,012 --> 03:15:55,005
we're splitting the Chondla with the ski area for half the operating hours of the

2054
03:15:55,005 --> 03:16:02,098
day. So we're spending, you know, 350,000 let's just say $300,000 because we

2055
03:16:02,098 --> 03:16:06,004
have a swag number in there, not knowing what the ski area is gonna do with major

2056
03:16:06,004 --> 03:16:11,019
repairs and replacements. So the chambola budget usually comes in under $300,000.

2057
03:16:11,085 --> 03:16:16,028
You know, and, and that's just for our portion of hours that we're really running

2058
03:16:16,028 --> 03:16:23,032
it, you know, after 4:00 p.m. So you double that. I it's a very similar It's a, it

2059
03:16:23,032 --> 03:16:31,021
would be a very similar cost. You know, half a million bucks a year to Run the Chandler.

2060
03:16:31,054 --> 03:16:36,016
I guess that the conversations we keep having about ancillary income, it's like,

2061
03:16:37,067 --> 03:16:44,002
You do have the majority of your, your human body population is there, and they can't

2062
03:16:44,001 --> 03:16:50,055
easily access the core in the summer to get up to use services. So, I do think it's

2063
03:16:50,055 --> 03:16:55,003
a good conversation to continue having about the best way to move bodies around and

2064
03:16:55,003 --> 03:16:59,071
get people where they need to be for work, but also for taking advantage of using

2065
03:16:59,071 --> 03:17:03,079
services and participating in events and going to restaurants and all of that too.

2066
03:17:04,075 --> 03:17:09,037
Well, and to Pete's point, I, I, I would think it would be helpful because we should

2067
03:17:09,037 --> 03:17:15,001
know the answer to this question. Get our friends from the TMVOA to just lay out

2068
03:17:15,001 --> 03:17:19,022
which communities are served by dialer ride, which ones aren't. Yeah, what the eligibility

2069
03:17:19,022 --> 03:17:23,093
requirements are. Yeah, yeah, because my understanding is it's generally owners versus

2070
03:17:23,093 --> 03:17:28,028
renters, but there's probably some, and then where does deed restricted fit into

2071
03:17:28,003 --> 03:17:33,043
it. And it's their policy to implement, but it'd be useful for us to know it to better

2072
03:17:33,043 --> 03:17:37,071
answer Pete's question, I think. Sure, and, and I think as you increase eligibility

2073
03:17:37,071 --> 03:17:43,023
down in the meadows that from a dialer perspective, the TMVOA cost is going to soar.

2074
03:17:44,001 --> 03:17:47,089
Because they're gonna have to, to Telluride Express is gonna have to completely change

2075
03:17:47,089 --> 03:17:51,057
their staffing models and their service model to accommodate that kind of traffic.

2076
03:17:51,066 --> 03:17:56,025
Well, I can spend their money all day long. That's it. No, I'm kidding. Um, I, I'm

2077
03:17:56,025 --> 03:18:01,069
not proposing any changes. I, I just don't know enough to propose a change. Um, and

2078
03:18:01,069 --> 03:18:06,024
maybe it's just working fine and dandy. Um, but there seems to be some asymmetries

2079
03:18:06,026 --> 03:18:13,094
in it, and they're all, everybody's are our residents here. Um, maybe, uh,

2080
03:18:14,007 --> 03:18:21,049
just to follow up on Pete's discussion, we should just get for the council a

2081
03:18:21,058 --> 03:18:27,062
comprehensive list of who is served by Dialeride and who is not. Uh, that would be

2082
03:18:27,062 --> 03:18:34,067
helpful and informative to me. Um, also a lien on the chandola. I, I think the issue

2083
03:18:34,067 --> 03:18:38,075
with the chandola is less a matter of cost and more the fact that in the summer it

2084
03:18:38,075 --> 03:18:44,008
goes through the driving range and so it's kind of a free fire zone. Couldn't you

2085
03:18:44,008 --> 03:18:46,082
have a big net like they have at Topgolf?

2086
03:18:48,094 --> 03:18:56,083
Just curious. Um, maybe. Yeah I, I, I think we've asked

2087
03:18:56,083 --> 03:19:01,023
this, the, the summer channel question again and again, and it boils down to Chuck

2088
03:19:01,023 --> 03:19:06,036
saying no. That, that's what I was gonna say, backing up Harvey, you know, technically,

2089
03:19:06,004 --> 03:19:09,095
we could probably do it. We could armor the windows of the cabin. It, you know, it

2090
03:19:09,095 --> 03:19:13,071
can run through the driving range if it needs to, but it's been basically not much

2091
03:19:13,071 --> 03:19:18,026
will from the ski area to, to make it happen. You know, it's also gonna depreciate

2092
03:19:18,028 --> 03:19:21,003
their asset twice as fast, so.

2093
03:19:26,095 --> 03:19:27,053
For now

2094
03:19:30,004 --> 03:19:34,058
All right, should we move on to gondola and Chando? I guess we're already covered

2095
03:19:34,088 --> 03:19:41,055
Chando. Um, so the gondola, we talked about the capital pieces, the big pieces in

2096
03:19:41,055 --> 03:19:46,003
this year over next which were the driving factors in the large increase in expenses

2097
03:19:46,003 --> 03:19:52,015
year over year. This budget includes um the additional labor that it's, that's going

2098
03:19:52,015 --> 03:19:59,023
to be required to keep the gondola open one week longer in the fall and um open it

2099
03:19:59,023 --> 03:20:05,038
back up one week earlier in the spring. I don't know if there's any other highlights

2100
03:20:05,044 --> 03:20:09,015
that you want to pull out on this. You know, we kind of went through the Capitol

2101
03:20:09,015 --> 03:20:16,085
earlier, uh. We, we have There's a, you'll notice a change in the evacuation

2102
03:20:16,085 --> 03:20:22,045
budget. Um, we're proposing the first ever pay increase for our on-call guys who

2103
03:20:22,045 --> 03:20:28,023
do the evacuation service. We've never given that. An increase, we're also proposing

2104
03:20:28,023 --> 03:20:32,071
replacing all the evacuation trolleys and bringing in a, a trainer from the company

2105
03:20:32,071 --> 03:20:36,027
who builds the trolleys. These are the things that ride the cables and then you get

2106
03:20:36,027 --> 03:20:40,079
on top of the cabin and get people out. So there's some extra money in the Mars budget.

2107
03:20:40,088 --> 03:20:46,035
That's Mars' mobile area or Mobile Aerial Rapid Rescue System. That's the acronym

2108
03:20:46,035 --> 03:20:52,019
that we use for that particular part of the Gondola Fund. Um, and that's the only

2109
03:20:52,019 --> 03:20:55,006
real big outlier other than the Capitol stuff.

2110
03:20:59,084 --> 03:21:05,083
And this is the budget that TMBOA has to go through and approve. It, it is a friendly

2111
03:21:05,083 --> 03:21:11,049
reminder to those uh who might question the need for a new gondola. We're gonna spend

2112
03:21:11,049 --> 03:21:17,056
almost $10 million a year on this. Go admittedly with a big uptick in capital, but,

2113
03:21:17,058 --> 03:21:22,083
um, because the number I always had in my head was 3 to $5 million but that's from

2114
03:21:23,006 --> 03:21:29,069
10 plus years ago. So $10 million is a big number if you look at the budget, um.

2115
03:21:30,012 --> 03:21:36,019
You know, about 6.8 million operationally and another 3 million in capital and major

2116
03:21:36,019 --> 03:21:40,083
repairs and replacements. Uh, you know, this is our last year of it. It's gonna move

2117
03:21:40,083 --> 03:21:46,061
over to SMART 3A funds, bring in. You know, about 7.2 million for the gondola and

2118
03:21:46,061 --> 03:21:51,021
another million for rubber tire transport. So, you know, Smart's teed up nicely from

2119
03:21:51,021 --> 03:21:55,021
an operational perspective and they've been collecting 3A monies for the last couple

2120
03:21:55,021 --> 03:21:59,096
of years which they can use toward future capital improvements on the gondola which

2121
03:22:00,014 --> 03:22:02,077
right out of the gate they're going to have a brand new haul rope to pay for to the

2122
03:22:02,077 --> 03:22:08,033
tune of 1.7 million and you know new snow cat and all sorts of other stuff, you know,

2123
03:22:08,038 --> 03:22:16,001
just. Real soon into their obligation, their funding obligation. So, um, so, so just,

2124
03:22:16,048 --> 03:22:19,075
uh, you know, Smart will go through their, excuse me, Smart will go through their

2125
03:22:19,075 --> 03:22:25,036
budget. And we're, we're focusing on 28 and later. But you know, there are some early

2126
03:22:25,036 --> 03:22:30,047
indications that the 3A money doesn't even cover operating the old gun law because

2127
03:22:30,049 --> 03:22:34,014
of the, the cost plus these uh capital items.

2128
03:22:37,079 --> 03:22:45,068
Because just so you, no, we, uh, plan is to figure it out, um, the plan

2129
03:22:45,068 --> 03:22:51,011
is to create a plan. Yeah, well, the, the plan, the plan is to spend the money that

2130
03:22:51,011 --> 03:22:58,037
we've been collecting. To do that. Um, but to your point, just to clarify, the, the,

2131
03:22:58,051 --> 03:23:05,002
the budget for 3A was 7.2. Um, with the, the collections have been running less than

2132
03:23:05,002 --> 03:23:12,078
that. And then the additional 1.6 million can never be used on the gondola. It, it's

2133
03:23:12,078 --> 03:23:16,029
a complete bifurcation. Those, those two amounts can never interact.

2134
03:23:22,044 --> 03:23:29,047
Does the G sub um work on like between now and the new gondola, or do they only focus

2135
03:23:29,047 --> 03:23:35,099
on the gondola, the future gondola? Only on the capital program for a new gondola.

2136
03:23:42,009 --> 03:23:44,024
Anything else on the gondola?

2137
03:23:47,048 --> 03:23:47,071
Right.

2138
03:23:49,088 --> 03:23:55,064
Parks and Rec, um, the big piece here was that pedestrian improvement that I mentioned

2139
03:23:55,064 --> 03:23:59,075
earlier where we needed to move from capital over to operating due to the ownership

2140
03:23:59,075 --> 03:24:05,087
of the land. So that is the um big increase in Parks and Rec over next year.

2141
03:24:09,009 --> 03:24:10,096
So this is the 750,000?

2142
03:24:13,084 --> 03:24:20,053
I guess, um I'm gonna be Debbie Downer, but um I really have a problem with this.

2143
03:24:20,007 --> 03:24:22,037
This is corporate welfare.

2144
03:24:27,005 --> 03:24:34,053
Um, so let, let me, let me share my, my thoughts on this 750.

2145
03:24:34,069 --> 03:24:41,096
Um, so the, the, uh, the concept here, and, uh, it's something that I've been supporting

2146
03:24:41,096 --> 03:24:49,011
and pushing. The concept is to spend $750,000 of town money to build an

2147
03:24:49,011 --> 03:24:56,006
attractive snow melted pathway. Um, from Adams Ranch Road

2148
03:24:56,095 --> 03:25:04,019
through the Big Billy's Breezeway up to pretty close to the, the entrance of Chair

2149
03:25:04,019 --> 03:25:11,085
10 and the, and the chandela. So the reason we've never done this before is because

2150
03:25:11,095 --> 03:25:19,035
it's Telsky's property. And, and I think Pete has, you know, expressed The the view

2151
03:25:19,035 --> 03:25:24,092
of of the council, which is, you know, why in the world would we spend money to improve

2152
03:25:25,004 --> 03:25:32,055
a piece of Telsky property and I guess where I ended up coming out was, um, it's

2153
03:25:32,055 --> 03:25:40,003
true it goes through Telsky property, but it's also true that this is um. A public

2154
03:25:40,003 --> 03:25:46,078
right of way that is the principal way that our Meadows residents access all of our

2155
03:25:46,078 --> 03:25:52,066
public transportation, including the gondola and it's also the secondary way that

2156
03:25:52,066 --> 03:25:59,071
visitors access our town because when they come in and if the. Uh, gondola parking

2157
03:25:59,071 --> 03:26:05,043
garage is full. They park in Meadows and then they have to walk through this unattractive

2158
03:26:05,043 --> 03:26:12,055
and more to the point, dangerous, slippery, icy, um, uh, walkway to get to the ski

2159
03:26:12,055 --> 03:26:18,071
area, you know. And when, when I look at our, our town's, you know, goals, our vision,

2160
03:26:18,096 --> 03:26:24,029
you know, we're talking about providing a world class experience and. This is anything

2161
03:26:24,055 --> 03:26:30,006
but world class and so I guess I would say that personally I got to the point where

2162
03:26:30,031 --> 03:26:36,009
I said, you know, I just need to swallow the distastefulness of the fact that we're

2163
03:26:36,062 --> 03:26:43,086
making an improvement to something that is owned by Telski and recognize that we,

2164
03:26:44,007 --> 03:26:50,094
I think it's important that we do it because of the experience for our Meadows residents

2165
03:26:50,094 --> 03:26:57,075
and, and our visitors. So that, that's, that's why I, I, I'd like to do it. I support

2166
03:26:57,075 --> 03:27:04,087
it, um, but I certainly understand where Pete is coming from and, you know, uh, I'll

2167
03:27:04,087 --> 03:27:07,074
be interested to see how other council members feel about it.

2168
03:27:10,044 --> 03:27:14,088
Just a quick question, how, I mean, How much of, how much of this is improvement

2169
03:27:14,088 --> 03:27:20,013
or how much of this improvement is needed? Because they're not maintaining the current,

2170
03:27:20,081 --> 03:27:26,064
you know, the current access versus we need the improvement because it has to go

2171
03:27:26,064 --> 03:27:30,032
around something or it has to be rerouted or something different. I'm just trying

2172
03:27:30,032 --> 03:27:34,012
to understand the, the way I'm going on this is just to understand how much is this,

2173
03:27:34,025 --> 03:27:39,015
how much of this are we doing or considering because they're, they're not doing,

2174
03:27:39,049 --> 03:27:47,001
you know, proper maintenance and so forth. Um, maybe Jim's best to answer that. Harvey,

2175
03:27:47,006 --> 03:27:53,098
historically speaking, it's always been a dreary, awful way to get from the Chomlo

2176
03:27:54,001 --> 03:28:01,011
to the Meadows. Dark, icy, you know, even when we devote extra manpower to shoveling

2177
03:28:01,014 --> 03:28:06,005
and making it safe, putting down gravel, it's just the experience is not. It's not

2178
03:28:06,005 --> 03:28:10,021
great. It's never been great. There is a lot of deferred maintenance down there,

2179
03:28:10,053 --> 03:28:16,007
but I don't think that has anything to do with just it was a bad design from day

2180
03:28:16,007 --> 03:28:21,039
one on how to get people through there. So, so we're essentially going around the

2181
03:28:21,039 --> 03:28:25,061
problem, creating a new way to get through there. Is that we're, we're, we're utilizing

2182
03:28:25,061 --> 03:28:29,005
the exact same pathway. We're not changing. We're not deviating from the path that

2183
03:28:29,005 --> 03:28:33,046
people use right now. There are no social paths that have been cut that go in different

2184
03:28:33,046 --> 03:28:37,079
directions. We're utilizing the exact same. The way people travel right now, just

2185
03:28:37,079 --> 03:28:42,044
improving it to make it safer and it's being snow melted. I think that's the key,

2186
03:28:42,006 --> 03:28:46,032
that the key difference that is the key because it's just a dark hole down there

2187
03:28:46,032 --> 03:28:50,095
that never sees sunlight and it, and then when it does see sunlight in the in the

2188
03:28:50,095 --> 03:28:55,059
late spring, it goes through freeze thaw and it just becomes a really not a great

2189
03:28:55,059 --> 03:29:02,034
situation down there. The, the drainage that was sorry. Is it an easement or is it

2190
03:29:02,044 --> 03:29:03,097
their actual property?

2191
03:29:06,039 --> 03:29:10,009
Uh, I believe it's all there. Yeah, Scott has done a little more research on this,

2192
03:29:11,003 --> 03:29:14,098
so he may be better to speak to it. Well, I think it's their property, but there

2193
03:29:14,098 --> 03:29:17,038
is a public right of way easement through it.

2194
03:29:19,061 --> 03:29:23,053
Jim, if I'm wrong about that. I don't know if there's a legal easement, but it's

2195
03:29:23,055 --> 03:29:30,078
used by the public. Absolutely, yeah. So I, I think, you know, I mean, these are

2196
03:29:30,078 --> 03:29:37,003
all great comments. I think um I would like to know the distinction, right? If, cause

2197
03:29:37,003 --> 03:29:43,067
if it if it is their property and there isn't a formal easement, then I don't see

2198
03:29:43,067 --> 03:29:49,062
why we would spend the money even if it is a benefit, right? Cause otherwise it would

2199
03:29:49,062 --> 03:29:54,022
be like us going and paying to repaint Mountain View, so to speak. I mean, it's not

2200
03:29:54,022 --> 03:29:59,015
a My understanding is, is that a precondition of doing this work is that, you know,

2201
03:29:59,002 --> 03:30:05,003
you would get the easement to actually do the work and, and, um, so I think, I think

2202
03:30:05,003 --> 03:30:12,077
I agree with you, Rick. Yeah. Yeah, the I understand. I understand.

2203
03:30:13,059 --> 03:30:17,066
Go ahead, Harvey. I just, just following on Scott's before you go. I mean, should

2204
03:30:17,066 --> 03:30:21,075
there also be a connection that if there's not a legal easement now that there'd

2205
03:30:21,075 --> 03:30:28,061
be a legal easement as, as a condition of, of doing this work? That's not something

2206
03:30:28,067 --> 03:30:36,056
that Telsky typically grants. Even if it makes, but it, it's manifestly a, a public

2207
03:30:36,056 --> 03:30:42,034
right away. I mean, I don't know. I guess if to, to, I, I agree with what Harvey

2208
03:30:42,034 --> 03:30:46,073
and Rick are saying. I mean there should be, there should be a legal, there should

2209
03:30:46,073 --> 03:30:51,005
be an easement for the public to pass through there. And if Telsky didn't agree to

2210
03:30:51,005 --> 03:30:56,085
that, I mean, it just seems. It it seems crazy to me that they wouldn't, but, you

2211
03:30:56,085 --> 03:31:00,092
know, if, if that's where they are, then why would we do the work?

2212
03:31:03,086 --> 03:31:08,032
Yeah, I, I would think it's a requirement. Otherwise, when you get off the chondola,

2213
03:31:08,036 --> 03:31:12,068
it's the bottom, you have to go up that flight of stairs and then walk down the road

2214
03:31:12,068 --> 03:31:16,057
from, uh, I forget the name of that part, condo development there right on the run.

2215
03:31:17,001 --> 03:31:22,071
Um, you know, I, I appreciate Pete's concern. I mean, if this was any other business

2216
03:31:22,073 --> 03:31:27,029
in town and they didn't maintain. The entrance to their place of doing business,

2217
03:31:27,043 --> 03:31:33,041
you know, they had broken steps or stairs or, you know, we would tell them fix it,

2218
03:31:33,076 --> 03:31:38,072
um, and we would use the leverage that the town employs. The challenge here is we've

2219
03:31:38,072 --> 03:31:42,083
been talking about this for a long, long, long time and they'll be. Your staffs,

2220
03:31:43,007 --> 03:31:48,042
they're doing the best they can. It's a hard job because it, it is a cave. Um, and

2221
03:31:48,042 --> 03:31:53,049
at the end of the day, I could probably get there if we get all the legal protections

2222
03:31:53,049 --> 03:31:59,002
and the right of way cause Tulsky could say to us, no, people can't walk through

2223
03:31:59,002 --> 03:32:03,042
our property, um, and that would make a bad situation even worse.

2224
03:32:05,057 --> 03:32:11,007
And I follow up, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, so I have a follow-up question as well, so.

2225
03:32:11,095 --> 03:32:14,098
We're putting in snow melt, there's a utility involved and there's also gonna be

2226
03:32:14,098 --> 03:32:19,066
maintenance. Have we estimated what the annual operating costs of maintaining the

2227
03:32:19,066 --> 03:32:25,061
snow melt and pathway? No formal estimates on that. Because that, that's another

2228
03:32:25,063 --> 03:32:29,087
reason why we really have to have an easement because we need to be able to get in

2229
03:32:29,087 --> 03:32:36,073
there at any time to, to repair it and, and maintain it. And, and not to pile on,

2230
03:32:36,082 --> 03:32:41,045
but they, they don't maintain it very well down there. It is not a pleasant guest

2231
03:32:41,045 --> 03:32:46,029
experience, to put it, uh, mildly, um, because that's where you enter the units for

2232
03:32:46,029 --> 03:32:51,056
Big Billy's part of the area, and that they're, they're pretty messy and it's not

2233
03:32:51,074 --> 03:32:58,011
the first thing we want our high-end visitors to see. Stucco's falling off. There

2234
03:32:58,011 --> 03:33:05,095
are snowmobiles and off-highway vehicles parked down in that breezeway. You're

2235
03:33:06,004 --> 03:33:11,063
suggesting we should, uh, repair the stucco as well? Well, yeah, I, I, I mean if

2236
03:33:11,063 --> 03:33:16,073
you're gonna put snow melt, you might as well go all the way. Spender. Well, there,

2237
03:33:16,093 --> 03:33:20,076
there are gonna have to be cosmetic improvements involved with this project, and

2238
03:33:20,076 --> 03:33:24,036
there's gonna have to be commitments from Telski that they're not gonna make it look

2239
03:33:24,036 --> 03:33:28,003
like back of house like it currently does. They're going to have to park the snowmobiles

2240
03:33:28,053 --> 03:33:33,000
up on the ski run. They're gonna have to quit storing stuff on the side of the building,

2241
03:33:33,005 --> 03:33:35,088
and it'll have to look, you know, more presentable than it already does. That would,

2242
03:33:36,017 --> 03:33:39,097
Scott and I have talked about this. This is all stuff that, you know, would be preconditioned

2243
03:33:40,019 --> 03:33:47,047
and determining our legal right. Yeah, back in the day we looked at uh uh paths

2244
03:33:48,013 --> 03:33:53,016
around Big Billy's. We, we have three options and we did look at that path around

2245
03:33:53,016 --> 03:33:57,085
the side. There's a lot of snowshed issues with that. Um, it, it, it would be equally

2246
03:33:57,085 --> 03:34:01,077
as it would be probably double the cost to build because you'd have to build a big.

2247
03:34:02,002 --> 03:34:06,072
Elevated walkway next to the creek to get there. There's another, there's another

2248
03:34:06,072 --> 03:34:10,087
way going to the north side, but you'd have to relocate all the, all the trash enclosure

2249
03:34:10,087 --> 03:34:15,004
stuff. And then up to the terraces, that's private property. So we're, we're for

2250
03:34:15,004 --> 03:34:19,097
persona non grata to use that staircase. So we've looked at three different options,

2251
03:34:20,004 --> 03:34:25,083
and this seems like it's already the way people go. Why not just improve that and

2252
03:34:25,083 --> 03:34:32,033
force them down a different pathway. Jim, Jim, just a, just a side question. Sometimes

2253
03:34:32,033 --> 03:34:38,029
you hear rumors that maybe someday Big Billy's would be remodeled, maybe expanded,

2254
03:34:38,046 --> 03:34:43,069
maybe adjusted, you know, something along those lines. Does this contemplate that

2255
03:34:43,069 --> 03:34:48,091
or? If you know, if I'm making up an example, but if you know in 10 years they say,

2256
03:34:48,099 --> 03:34:52,088
oh we want to change the footprint of Big Billy's, we want to do something different,

2257
03:34:53,003 --> 03:34:59,053
are we, would, would this be still usable or you understand my question? I do understand

2258
03:34:59,055 --> 03:35:03,074
the question and I think that that access to the backside of the building is always

2259
03:35:03,074 --> 03:35:09,081
going to have to remain open just for fire. Access for fire department access. Um,

2260
03:35:09,094 --> 03:35:13,085
that's why the path that we're contemplating is, has a hammerhead in it and can turn

2261
03:35:13,085 --> 03:35:19,000
a fire truck around. So, you know, it would be a shared use kind of thing between

2262
03:35:19,014 --> 03:35:24,047
pedestrians and just for the fire department and, um, you know, maintenance access

2263
03:35:24,047 --> 03:35:29,073
for the ski area. And I can share with you that um that property had a covenant.

2264
03:35:30,033 --> 03:35:34,076
Uh, for tax credits when it was built, it was built, um, when it was under the county

2265
03:35:34,076 --> 03:35:40,049
before we were a town and that has, um, expired, so they have continued it still

2266
03:35:40,049 --> 03:35:46,048
did restricted housing and commercial uses but stated differently, it's a property

2267
03:35:46,048 --> 03:35:52,065
that could be redeveloped. It, it's on an open space parcel still active. Open space

2268
03:35:53,007 --> 03:35:59,074
I think that with the more recent vending cart discussion they are broadly thinking

2269
03:35:59,074 --> 03:36:04,005
about redevelopment down there and what that could look like um so I guess we'll

2270
03:36:04,005 --> 03:36:08,074
just have to track with Tulski on how quickly they might be moving on something like

2271
03:36:08,074 --> 03:36:13,006
that um but there's a lot of opportunity there although of course I don't think.

2272
03:36:13,022 --> 03:36:17,082
The Meadows residents would necessarily want to see redevelopment on a large scale,

2273
03:36:17,009 --> 03:36:23,028
but it is kind of one of our base areas, so it's a, it's a key property for our community

2274
03:36:23,058 --> 03:36:28,074
as it relates to the ski area. Uh, I, I guess there's another just question which

2275
03:36:28,074 --> 03:36:33,002
is, this doesn't change the fact that you have to walk through the parking lot first,

2276
03:36:33,003 --> 03:36:39,024
right? I mean, so when I say parking lot, the parking lot that's right in, right.

2277
03:36:39,098 --> 03:36:46,005
You know, right in front of big buildings, parking lot. I think our local folks would

2278
03:36:46,005 --> 03:36:49,025
probably still take the path of least resistance and go through the parking lot,

2279
03:36:49,034 --> 03:36:54,037
but the heated designated area would be up in the entrance to the breezeway, which

2280
03:36:54,037 --> 03:37:00,008
is one level above. And that's where the, the, the driveway, the formal driveway

2281
03:37:01,014 --> 03:37:02,004
through the breezeway.

2282
03:37:06,033 --> 03:37:08,072
Yeah, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying, I'm just trying to visualize it, that's

2283
03:37:08,072 --> 03:37:14,044
all, sorry. It's a little hard to be like thumbs up or thumbs down if I don't like

2284
03:37:14,053 --> 03:37:20,052
haven't seen anything and it's like, what are we paying for? Where is it? Just the

2285
03:37:20,052 --> 03:37:27,091
driveway? Is it all the way to the ski area base? Is it just paving and snowmelt?

2286
03:37:28,013 --> 03:37:33,012
When I get back to There, I'll share of the concept designs with the rest of the

2287
03:37:33,012 --> 03:37:38,031
council. The mayor has them, Michelle has them. Tucker, I think you may have them.

2288
03:37:38,045 --> 03:37:45,017
Um, they just kind of came in in the last week, so. Scott, I, I, I understand your

2289
03:37:45,017 --> 03:37:51,045
issue. I mean, um, Walking in ski boots and skis. Um, I mean, I, I walk the dog down

2290
03:37:51,045 --> 03:37:57,023
there a lot, and so I know that it's icy and it's shitty looking and all that. And

2291
03:37:58,046 --> 03:38:05,006
I, I, and, and I, you know, you, you, uh, I expected you to say what you said, um.

2292
03:38:06,044 --> 03:38:12,027
And I partially agree, my issue is, it's a slippery slope cause you say, OK, this

2293
03:38:12,027 --> 03:38:15,095
is a problem that the ski company is not taking care of, care of and we're gonna,

2294
03:38:16,008 --> 03:38:20,019
we're gonna fund it and fix it. It's kinda like what we've done with housing. We've

2295
03:38:20,019 --> 03:38:24,007
built all the hou the affordable housing here and if it was a normal ski operator,

2296
03:38:24,002 --> 03:38:31,004
they would have contributed to that. And then you can, you can make it Similar justification

2297
03:38:31,004 --> 03:38:38,072
on, on Chair 10. If the ski company isn't, it's the oldest detachable ski lift in

2298
03:38:38,072 --> 03:38:43,019
North America, and if they're not gonna fix it, well, we're gonna put money in, so

2299
03:38:44,001 --> 03:38:51,077
I just Same for TTP. Spending all the marketing dollars, it's just that that's my

2300
03:38:51,077 --> 03:38:59,054
issue. I think it's a, it's a fair issue, I guess. I the distinction that I made

2301
03:38:59,054 --> 03:39:07,024
for myself in this case is that it is such a central right walkway or transit point

2302
03:39:07,024 --> 03:39:14,007
for both residents and guests. Um, and, and it directly Goes

2303
03:39:14,007 --> 03:39:19,094
to the safety and the, I mean, I think about how much money we spend, you know, on

2304
03:39:19,094 --> 03:39:26,082
road safety or things like that and You know this is, this is an unsafe passage that

2305
03:39:26,082 --> 03:39:32,038
is a prince the principal commuting package for our residents and the, the number

2306
03:39:32,038 --> 03:39:39,007
2 access route for our visitors and so that's. That's, I, I, I certainly don't wanna

2307
03:39:39,007 --> 03:39:46,025
get into the business of, you know, paying for Telski's properties, um, but this

2308
03:39:46,027 --> 03:39:50,057
one felt like it, to me, like it was worth doing. I get it.

2309
03:39:53,081 --> 03:39:56,081
So developed

2310
03:39:58,096 --> 03:40:05,000
A more comprehensive plan and then And it and make a decision by the end of the year.

2311
03:40:07,002 --> 03:40:11,025
So we just to be clear what we're doing here, we're gonna hold our nose and leave

2312
03:40:11,025 --> 03:40:16,025
it in the budget, but then ask for a work session session off of the plan where we

2313
03:40:16,025 --> 03:40:23,007
clarify the legal easements and rights way and uh I wouldn't even mind offline looking

2314
03:40:23,007 --> 03:40:30,041
again at the option 2 and 3, because I'm with you. I mean it is literally and figuratively

2315
03:40:30,041 --> 03:40:35,088
slippery slope here uh if the next the next business decides they're not going to.

2316
03:40:36,067 --> 03:40:42,087
Protect their customers. That's not our job, but I, I hold my nose and say yes because

2317
03:40:43,005 --> 03:40:49,072
safety is the number one responsibility I think we have. And I would just want to

2318
03:40:49,072 --> 03:40:57,005
understand too, like the Chandola is there and so. Telsky doesn't own the chandola,

2319
03:40:57,091 --> 03:41:02,026
so what is the easement access, because otherwise if you're not going through this

2320
03:41:02,026 --> 03:41:09,006
way, there's only the stairs, right? Telsky does own the own the Telsky owns the

2321
03:41:09,006 --> 03:41:17,003
chando hall its entirety, but we just, we hope the operations of it, OK. So yeah,

2322
03:41:17,035 --> 03:41:22,078
the easement thing is a big question and that and the access and the accessible access,

2323
03:41:22,087 --> 03:41:28,005
right. And there may be something out there. I would say that I've probably been

2324
03:41:28,005 --> 03:41:31,011
a little remiss in not doing any homework on it because why would they have built

2325
03:41:31,011 --> 03:41:36,061
it as a public conveyance? They didn't put chondola cabins on it for You know, ski

2326
03:41:36,061 --> 03:41:41,045
school was a byproduct of that. It was to access the Meadows neighborhood. That's

2327
03:41:41,045 --> 03:41:46,049
why it was built by the developers back in the early 90s. So, I can't imagine there's

2328
03:41:46,049 --> 03:41:52,001
not some type of public access uh rights through that corridor. I just don't know

2329
03:41:52,001 --> 03:41:55,089
what they look like. So, you know, maybe David can help us do a title search and

2330
03:41:55,089 --> 03:42:03,022
we can See what kind of recorded right away people have to use that pathway. Yeah,

2331
03:42:03,035 --> 03:42:07,032
we probably just need to talk to the title company. They can pull a full report.

2332
03:42:09,023 --> 03:42:16,053
OK. So it sounds like a November work session for this work. But I think

2333
03:42:16,053 --> 03:42:21,033
approval to keep this placeholder in the budget, right? I'm gonna leave it in the

2334
03:42:21,033 --> 03:42:26,082
budget and then if this changes after the November meeting, it'll be the second reading

2335
03:42:26,098 --> 03:42:27,068
will be adjusted.

2336
03:42:30,000 --> 03:42:35,015
OK. Anything else on the gondola budget or the parks, parks, excuse me, Parks and

2337
03:42:35,015 --> 03:42:43,005
recs budget. Parks is done. We're done, OK. Thanks, Mr. Lobi. Thanks all. Scott Bittinger,

2338
03:42:43,088 --> 03:42:44,087
Public Works.

2339
03:42:53,083 --> 03:42:54,012
We're gonna

2340
03:43:03,044 --> 03:43:09,075
OK. Um, I'm gonna let Scott run through these budgets. I, I can give you brief highlights.

2341
03:43:09,088 --> 03:43:15,091
Um, some of these are fairly small, the building facility budget, this budget, um,

2342
03:43:17,003 --> 03:43:21,046
Includes 2 employees and a portion, I'm not sure if Scott's partially allocated,

2343
03:43:21,051 --> 03:43:27,003
I'd have to look that up. But you'll see that our, um, we did some big HVAC repair

2344
03:43:27,003 --> 03:43:31,038
maintenance this year that brings the budget down next year in town hall. And this

2345
03:43:31,038 --> 03:43:37,079
is also the area. That all of the commercial properties that the town has, the expenses

2346
03:43:37,079 --> 03:43:43,006
for those run through. So this is our Westermere space, this is the Prospect Plaza

2347
03:43:43,006 --> 03:43:48,004
commercial space, and all of those expenses run through this department.

2348
03:43:50,007 --> 03:43:57,033
Yeah, no real big changes, um, on the building facility maintenance budget. Um, there

2349
03:43:57,033 --> 03:44:03,029
were some capital, um, that we put in there for boilers for the next couple of years,

2350
03:44:03,042 --> 03:44:09,021
some replacements. The next ones on our list are, um, here at Town Hall, um, and

2351
03:44:09,021 --> 03:44:14,072
then La Chamonix, which are both kind of smaller boiler systems, um, and then further

2352
03:44:14,072 --> 03:44:18,045
down the road we'll be getting into Blue Mesa and even further our newest system

2353
03:44:18,045 --> 03:44:23,013
is, uh, Sunset. And those are in the capital plan, not on this sheet if you're looking

2354
03:44:23,019 --> 03:44:28,082
for big numbers. Yeah, so no, no real big changes on this one, but if you guys have

2355
03:44:28,082 --> 03:44:32,009
any questions, have to address. I, I did wanna answer one question that I had earlier

2356
03:44:32,009 --> 03:44:38,009
on, and it was about the maintenance, um, for the snow melt and boilers, and then

2357
03:44:38,009 --> 03:44:42,098
it's not yet decreasing even with the new boilers, and Scott explained that that

2358
03:44:42,098 --> 03:44:48,092
is because The piping and the conduit and all of the other items of the system are

2359
03:44:48,092 --> 03:44:54,047
aging as well, so those need maintenance. Yeah, and those are generally our bigger

2360
03:44:54,051 --> 03:44:59,022
ticket items when it comes to preventative maintenance, um, is dealing with all the

2361
03:44:59,022 --> 03:45:05,075
manifolds and replacing the 20 year old stuff that's in the ground and in the plazas

2362
03:45:05,075 --> 03:45:10,004
and in the vaults all over the place. Um, glycol has also gotten considerably more

2363
03:45:10,004 --> 03:45:15,027
expensive over the last 34 years. Um, and so, you know, We always have to supplement

2364
03:45:15,027 --> 03:45:18,063
a little bit of glycol in those systems for this loss that we have throughout the

2365
03:45:18,063 --> 03:45:18,091
year.

2366
03:45:23,098 --> 03:45:27,097
I thought your goals were, were a little light for 2027.

2367
03:45:30,097 --> 03:45:34,084
Yeah, um, you know, this is one of our departments, and I mean, I think a lot of

2368
03:45:34,084 --> 03:45:40,016
our departments are like this in public works where, you know, our day to day is

2369
03:45:40,016 --> 03:45:44,076
generally, that's our goal. Like, Kyle's goal is to make sure everything is working

2370
03:45:44,076 --> 03:45:49,063
at all times. Um, things that are additive to that or like when we're doing like

2371
03:45:49,075 --> 03:45:55,038
big capital projects, things that we're changing out and fixing. Um, but, you know,

2372
03:45:55,043 --> 03:46:00,082
the low hanging fruit has kind of been done at this point. Um, and so, you know,

2373
03:46:00,095 --> 03:46:05,074
for our operational departments, it's really like, Keep your head down and work and

2374
03:46:05,076 --> 03:46:10,027
if things come up, then let's address them. So is there a way to go, so now you're

2375
03:46:10,027 --> 03:46:14,033
making all these changes, you're getting in new equipment. Is there any way to go

2376
03:46:14,033 --> 03:46:20,027
from preventative maintenance to more predictive maintenance? Were you modeling this

2377
03:46:20,027 --> 03:46:26,054
and then I would think that would be more efficient and Yeah, there is, and there's

2378
03:46:26,054 --> 03:46:31,062
ways we're certainly AI can help us out with that, um, you know, I think we probably

2379
03:46:31,062 --> 03:46:36,082
have more predictive maintenance going on in our water and sewer departments, um,

2380
03:46:36,095 --> 03:46:41,007
with all the sensors and things that we're starting to utilize, um, that's starting

2381
03:46:41,007 --> 03:46:45,049
to become what we're able to do with our boilers now that we're putting all these

2382
03:46:45,049 --> 03:46:49,039
advanced controlling mechanisms on them where we can see, you know, what type of

2383
03:46:49,039 --> 03:46:53,001
amperage they're drawing and if there's any changes in the way our pumps are working.

2384
03:46:53,055 --> 03:46:58,022
Um, so we can actually kind of monitor some of those internal mechanisms that will

2385
03:46:58,022 --> 03:47:03,045
tell us, you know, when things are starting to lose, um, efficiency. OK.

2386
03:47:06,045 --> 03:47:10,091
The next department is road and bridge. Um, this department had some understaffing

2387
03:47:10,093 --> 03:47:15,032
throughout the year that's so we've budgeted for full staffing next year. Um, there

2388
03:47:15,032 --> 03:47:21,023
was a question about why paving expenses looking like it's going down and um the

2389
03:47:21,023 --> 03:47:28,000
new plan that Scott works with, he estimates based on length and width and what the

2390
03:47:28,000 --> 03:47:32,084
costs are. So depending on what comes up in that year's um budget, there's gonna

2391
03:47:32,084 --> 03:47:37,032
be some variation. I also want to point out that we'll be making an adjustment to

2392
03:47:37,032 --> 03:47:43,096
the 2026 forecasted ending paving budget because we came in under um as we move forward

2393
03:47:43,096 --> 03:47:51,069
to the next round. Yeah. So this spring, we um utilize a company that we do

2394
03:47:51,083 --> 03:47:57,062
a lot of our work order systems through um called iWork. They came out um and basically

2395
03:47:57,062 --> 03:48:04,005
use kind of one of these um Google Earth style cars that has cameras all over it.

2396
03:48:04,047 --> 03:48:10,019
And they mapped out our entire roadway system, um, and we're able to put all of that

2397
03:48:10,019 --> 03:48:15,084
information in GIS, all of our signage, all of our hydrants. To look at manholes,

2398
03:48:16,014 --> 03:48:22,041
um, but they gave up every single one of our roads a score, um, basically of remaining

2399
03:48:22,041 --> 03:48:28,037
service life in a condition assessment. And so that's how we've now tiered all the

2400
03:48:28,037 --> 03:48:33,068
work that we're doing in the future. Um, this 10-year paving plan that we have, um,

2401
03:48:34,034 --> 03:48:39,041
is all based on what we got from that report. Obviously, every year we'll go out

2402
03:48:39,041 --> 03:48:44,065
and we, you know, ground truth everything, um, but that's kind of a new tool in our

2403
03:48:44,065 --> 03:48:48,096
toolbox to help us, you know, predict where and when we're gonna be doing things.

2404
03:48:49,034 --> 03:48:55,004
Um, so next year we are a little bit lower than years previous, um, just because

2405
03:48:55,006 --> 03:49:00,089
we're not doing quite as much length, um, you know, based on The estimates that I

2406
03:49:00,089 --> 03:49:06,058
put in here, I was pretty happy. I, I did get a quote from TGI to do Upper Mountain

2407
03:49:06,058 --> 03:49:12,057
Village Boulevard, um, when they come out here to do some asphalt lifts for four

2408
03:49:12,057 --> 03:49:17,032
seasons, and basically what they quoted me was kind of right on. Where I had been

2409
03:49:17,046 --> 03:49:23,013
estimating these. And then as I went out the 10 years, I was adding on a little bit

2410
03:49:23,013 --> 03:49:27,021
percentage wise just to try to keep up with inflation and increasing fuel costs.

2411
03:49:27,003 --> 03:49:31,076
So, I'm not gonna say they're 100% accurate, but I'm pretty confident that they're

2412
03:49:31,085 --> 03:49:38,044
close-ish. So Scott, is this system in, is, is this system uh the changes that you're

2413
03:49:38,044 --> 03:49:45,000
not, you're using the, the data from the observation in, in this, uh, you know, car

2414
03:49:45,000 --> 03:49:49,078
and so forth. You're doing that, I assume rather than A fixed timeline where everything

2415
03:49:49,078 --> 03:49:53,094
is just based on the number of years, is that what I'm hearing? That's correct, Harvey.

2416
03:49:53,099 --> 03:49:59,002
You know we have a lot of roadways out here that get limited use versus others and

2417
03:49:59,002 --> 03:50:02,098
so we just want to make sure that we're not saying, well, pavement's got a 10 year

2418
03:50:02,098 --> 03:50:06,061
shelf life, so we're redoing it every single 10 years. Some roads can go far longer

2419
03:50:06,063 --> 03:50:07,005
than that.

2420
03:50:09,046 --> 03:50:15,069
But what's the constraint then in the paving program? Is it the money? Cause 25%.

2421
03:50:16,041 --> 03:50:22,004
Available budget to do more? Is it the contractor's capacity or is it when you grade

2422
03:50:22,004 --> 03:50:28,076
all of our roads, there's just not a need for that last 25% of the budget to be put

2423
03:50:28,076 --> 03:50:35,093
down while the contractors mobilized. So, this year, you know, our plan was to try

2424
03:50:35,093 --> 03:50:41,061
to do country club and Double Eagle was how we came into this year. Um, we ended

2425
03:50:41,061 --> 03:50:47,059
up punching on Double Eagle because we decided to go through the engineering. Um,

2426
03:50:48,002 --> 03:50:52,015
exercise of figuring out how we could widen Double Eagle. And then when we finally

2427
03:50:52,015 --> 03:50:57,039
got kind of our very initial opinions of probable cost, we, we knew that it wasn't

2428
03:50:57,039 --> 03:51:01,063
gonna happen this year. It was just far too expensive. We were also relying on some

2429
03:51:01,063 --> 03:51:07,023
money from TMVOA to help out with the country club widening, um, because initially

2430
03:51:07,023 --> 03:51:10,059
it was thought that they were gonna throw some money into that. They pulled back

2431
03:51:10,059 --> 03:51:15,001
out of that. We still found country club as one, as one of our Priorities to do that

2432
03:51:15,001 --> 03:51:21,006
widening. Um, so we moved forward and got that project done. Um, but then, you know,

2433
03:51:21,015 --> 03:51:26,026
didn't have enough remaining in our budget to really jump into another road. Um,

2434
03:51:26,039 --> 03:51:29,045
that was one of the reasons why I looked at potentially doing Upper Mountain Village

2435
03:51:29,045 --> 03:51:34,007
Boulevard this year. Um, but after talking to whites and kind of sitting and sleeping

2436
03:51:34,007 --> 03:51:39,026
on it a few nights, we just decided it's best just to punt, wait until they're completely

2437
03:51:39,026 --> 03:51:45,011
done, and then piggyback on what they're gonna do in front of Four Seasons. And extend

2438
03:51:45,011 --> 03:51:48,099
it both ways, take it from country club all the way up to the top cul-de-sac there

2439
03:51:48,099 --> 03:51:56,028
and have just a brand new map for the whole nice area up there. Another net, um.

2440
03:51:57,053 --> 03:52:01,064
Uh, gasoline, which I assume is mostly diesel fuel given the price of diesel fuel

2441
03:52:01,084 --> 03:52:07,009
these days, I'm surprised your budget would go down. My, my budget for, I do utilities

2442
03:52:07,096 --> 03:52:13,038
and we do them based on the short-term energy outlooks because that is the most available

2443
03:52:13,099 --> 03:52:17,027
resource for what projections are for next year and I know that there's a lot of

2444
03:52:17,027 --> 03:52:21,039
uncertainty as what will happen, but this is the current projection as published

2445
03:52:21,039 --> 03:52:29,026
by the Economic office. So, and, and there are no, I don't, I don't wanna

2446
03:52:29,026 --> 03:52:35,038
bet on it, but I just, this is a tough one to just kind of, you know.

2447
03:52:37,023 --> 03:52:41,006
Stick your finger in the air and try to predict because I can remember we did that

2448
03:52:41,006 --> 03:52:48,034
a few years ago and I budgeted natural gas usage and cost in line with where we had

2449
03:52:48,034 --> 03:52:54,043
seen and then I came in, we came in about $250,000 under budget and then I was sandbagging

2450
03:52:55,023 --> 03:52:58,006
so. I can't win.

2451
03:53:00,026 --> 03:53:03,094
I'm curious how you forecast for guardrail repair. Is that just maintenance, or do

2452
03:53:03,094 --> 03:53:08,026
you have kind of a regular number of people smashing in the guardrails every year?

2453
03:53:08,035 --> 03:53:15,001
How do you decide? So, um, it is generally just kind of maintenance, um, you know,

2454
03:53:15,019 --> 03:53:19,087
we replaced kind of our most troublesome area, um, that had a lot of damage down

2455
03:53:19,087 --> 03:53:25,015
on Mount Village Boulevard in the S turns, um. You know, right now, what we're looking

2456
03:53:25,015 --> 03:53:30,091
at is replacing, we call them the beaver tails, kind of those end pieces for all

2457
03:53:30,091 --> 03:53:37,034
of our um guardrails. There's kind of a new code that they're using out in um on

2458
03:53:37,034 --> 03:53:42,003
CDOT that we'd like to start transitioning to. We can't really even buy those old

2459
03:53:42,003 --> 03:53:45,075
just kind of flared beaver tails where the guardrail just kind of curves at the end.

2460
03:53:46,017 --> 03:53:51,056
Now they're actually built structurally so they can sustain an impact and um not

2461
03:53:51,056 --> 03:53:55,052
just kind of like peel off. Um, so that's kind of what we're looking at for future

2462
03:53:55,052 --> 03:54:00,047
guard rail repair is just kind of replacing those end caps and then we generally

2463
03:54:00,047 --> 03:54:05,012
buy just a few kind of middle pieces where we can kind of plug and place some pieces

2464
03:54:05,012 --> 03:54:06,069
that might get damaged through the year.

2465
03:54:12,046 --> 03:54:18,071
Maintenance Um, the biggest change this year is, um, the completion of the fuel depot

2466
03:54:18,071 --> 03:54:23,059
work, so the budget, the operating budget actually goes down next year. And then

2467
03:54:23,059 --> 03:54:28,031
again, this is the department that has suffered from some vacancies over the years.

2468
03:54:28,006 --> 03:54:34,008
We're kind of reworking that recruitment process right now in hopes that um. This

2469
03:54:34,008 --> 03:54:40,064
is something we can Achieve next year. So how are you changing your staff as we move

2470
03:54:40,064 --> 03:54:48,027
into more electric vehicles, a lot more. You know, chips and stuff rather than spark

2471
03:54:48,027 --> 03:54:56,007
plugs and it's, it's training. Um, so 2 years ago, we did kind of a, a pretty

2472
03:54:56,007 --> 03:55:02,031
high-level EV training. We brought in a trainer. It was a week-long course and it

2473
03:55:02,031 --> 03:55:07,048
kind of went through electrical fundamentals and then they tore apart an entire EV,

2474
03:55:07,075 --> 03:55:13,081
um, and so, You know, we got that training through that process. We all got, we also

2475
03:55:13,081 --> 03:55:19,097
got a grant where we got all sorts of equipment for dealing with EVs, um, some heavier

2476
03:55:19,097 --> 03:55:25,053
duty lifts for lifting battery packs, and lowering battery packs. We got, um, a ton

2477
03:55:25,053 --> 03:55:30,052
of safety equipment to make sure that like we're grounding everything properly and,

2478
03:55:30,008 --> 03:55:34,013
um, you know, I think that's how we're gonna have to move forward is continually

2479
03:55:34,013 --> 03:55:39,014
do that training, especially as we have turnover in this department. Um. But it's,

2480
03:55:39,027 --> 03:55:43,091
yeah, it's training more than anything. I think we're gonna, the more that we transition

2481
03:55:43,091 --> 03:55:47,075
into EV we're gonna start saving some on fluids because we're not gonna be doing

2482
03:55:47,075 --> 03:55:52,007
quite as much oil changes and that sort of thing. Um, but we're just kind of dipping

2483
03:55:52,007 --> 03:55:57,046
our toes into it right now. Once we get these EV buses, it'll be a, a really Fun

2484
03:55:57,046 --> 03:56:02,031
kind of new thing for the staff, um, and that'll teach us a lot as we transition

2485
03:56:02,031 --> 03:56:07,035
to bigger equipment. Hopefully that's more, maybe not totally EV but hybrid. Um,

2486
03:56:07,044 --> 03:56:10,063
there's a lot of other mountain communities that are using hybrid loaders and, and

2487
03:56:10,063 --> 03:56:13,047
they love them and I think that's something that we're gonna be looking pretty closely

2488
03:56:13,047 --> 03:56:17,092
at when we start buying new equipment in the future. I was down in the new shop last

2489
03:56:17,094 --> 03:56:24,077
night and um. Is there capacity for you guys to do more work like for maybe the school

2490
03:56:24,077 --> 03:56:32,038
district on buses or for the fire department on their equipment? Um Currently,

2491
03:56:32,043 --> 03:56:39,009
no. You know, if we start having more reliable fleet, I think with Lobi's new buses,

2492
03:56:39,055 --> 03:56:44,002
um, you know, we'll see how that rollout goes, but a large amount of our shop's time

2493
03:56:44,002 --> 03:56:47,082
is keeping our fleet running, particularly our buses which are just, they're aging

2494
03:56:47,082 --> 03:56:53,018
out, um, and so when that starts to alleviate the stress on the shop, then we might

2495
03:56:53,018 --> 03:56:58,022
have some more bandwidth. We also take care of the smart vans as well, um, so we

2496
03:56:58,022 --> 03:57:01,005
do kind of divide and conquer through a few different.

2497
03:57:03,046 --> 03:57:07,041
This, uh, on the smart comment, I mean, it's longer term, not this budget, but, you

2498
03:57:07,041 --> 03:57:13,058
know, Smart has in their plans to ultimately build maintenance building and facility.

2499
03:57:14,003 --> 03:57:18,048
So there's probably some coordination we should do there. Yeah, and Harvey, just

2500
03:57:18,048 --> 03:57:23,003
to be clear, like we work on the small vans, you know, what we use is commuter shuttles.

2501
03:57:23,001 --> 03:57:28,014
Um, we don't work on their big buses right now. Probably wouldn't have a bandwidth

2502
03:57:28,014 --> 03:57:28,027
too.

2503
03:57:31,036 --> 03:57:34,071
I was, I was thinking more about coordinating them servicing our buses.

2504
03:57:37,005 --> 03:57:42,045
Yeah, potentially, I mean. Maybe for services and that sort of thing. I mean, so

2505
03:57:42,045 --> 03:57:47,029
much of our fleet, it needs to be back on the road right away. So, you know, we need

2506
03:57:47,029 --> 03:57:51,021
to have the capacity to, to jump on issues as they arise.

2507
03:58:02,065 --> 03:58:08,088
We've talked significantly about the large water project coming up, um, and what

2508
03:58:08,088 --> 03:58:14,011
this kind of brings our fund balance to and then each year the fund balance increases

2509
03:58:14,015 --> 03:58:21,039
and goes down after we have another project and um One of our council members, who's

2510
03:58:21,039 --> 03:58:29,024
that, um, has asked that the council think through whether it makes sense to debt

2511
03:58:29,024 --> 03:58:36,043
fund a portion of this project to keep the fund balance up, um, during the You know,

2512
03:58:36,006 --> 03:58:37,091
these years of

2513
03:58:40,022 --> 03:58:47,059
Large, uh, Large projects coming through and the one thing that I would probably

2514
03:58:47,059 --> 03:58:53,047
suggest is that we look at the new rate study which comes after, most likely after

2515
03:58:53,047 --> 03:58:58,007
the adoption of this budget, but the council can adopt that in the coming years because

2516
03:58:58,007 --> 03:59:03,034
these items have actually been built into that study. So, I think that at that point,

2517
03:59:03,036 --> 03:59:06,023
it's worth um looking through.

2518
03:59:08,078 --> 03:59:11,053
Yeah, it's just, I mean, when you look at these numbers, what's your, what's your

2519
03:59:11,053 --> 03:59:19,039
thinking on, on this? Well, you, you, you look at this. You know, so this year we're,

2520
03:59:19,048 --> 03:59:25,007
we're, we're spending $7 million. It's bringing our fund balance down to $2.5 million.

2521
03:59:25,098 --> 03:59:32,008
And then it builds up, and then you spend another 5.8, and then, you know, so you're

2522
03:59:32,008 --> 03:59:36,049
you're getting to where you're almost at zero. And this is an enterprise fund, so

2523
03:59:36,049 --> 03:59:41,012
it's supposed to be self-sufficient, but if it goes negative, it's gonna have to

2524
03:59:41,014 --> 03:59:46,085
rob some money from the general fund. And so, and, and the, the fact that we broke

2525
03:59:47,026 --> 03:59:54,074
water and sewer apart, now we, we, we've lost some of that flexibility. Um, that's

2526
03:59:54,074 --> 04:00:02,014
my, that's my only concern. I guess the question is how do you balance the interest,

2527
04:00:02,045 --> 04:00:07,058
you know, if you borrowed $3 million you're paying $200,000 a year in interest or

2528
04:00:07,091 --> 04:00:13,065
call it $150,000 a year in interest. How do you balance that against sort of Protecting

2529
04:00:13,067 --> 04:00:18,082
the general fund because you know we you could just we we have a lot of money in

2530
04:00:18,082 --> 04:00:24,023
the general fund you could loan the money to the enterprise fund at you know interest

2531
04:00:24,023 --> 04:00:24,062
free.

2532
04:00:27,063 --> 04:00:33,003
Well, that's a possibility too. You can, you can have a, an interfund loan as opposed

2533
04:00:33,003 --> 04:00:35,003
to just an out and out transfer.

2534
04:00:37,032 --> 04:00:41,031
And, and maybe that's the answer. We have enough in the general, we have enough reserves

2535
04:00:41,031 --> 04:00:48,038
in the general fund. That if we did get into a bind we could tap into that and I

2536
04:00:48,038 --> 04:00:53,049
think that you know again I would say let's take a look at what this rate study comes

2537
04:00:53,051 --> 04:00:59,001
back with because I think that you'll see implementations to kind of plan for those

2538
04:00:59,001 --> 04:01:00,046
next two larger.

2539
04:01:03,049 --> 04:01:08,005
But part of my thinking too, Scott, was the fact that we, we know that the nut in

2540
04:01:08,005 --> 04:01:13,077
the future is big, you know, 250 million or whatever, and we haven't really worked

2541
04:01:13,077 --> 04:01:18,094
through how we're, we'll do some of that through rate and probably some through borrowing.

2542
04:01:19,049 --> 04:01:24,043
So part of my thought process, well, maybe we'll just borrow some money now and start.

2543
04:01:25,026 --> 04:01:29,082
You know, rationalizing that whole how we're gonna finance this going forward. Yeah,

2544
04:01:30,026 --> 04:01:37,006
and, um, this includes this budget includes the increases that were from the last

2545
04:01:37,006 --> 04:01:42,061
adopted rate study which moved to a 3% inflationary adjustment this year but again

2546
04:01:42,061 --> 04:01:47,051
you'll be looking at another rate study um at the end of December or early January

2547
04:01:47,058 --> 04:01:54,092
and the um. There's, there'll be a lot of changes this year because there were, it's

2548
04:01:54,092 --> 04:01:59,012
splitting out the rates for water and sewer and those will be set independently of

2549
04:01:59,012 --> 04:02:05,056
each other and they're also going to build in the reserve study that we looked at

2550
04:02:05,056 --> 04:02:10,008
before that didn't have action. So the council can look at one rate study and uh

2551
04:02:10,008 --> 04:02:16,056
make a decision as to where they would like to see these funds. I mean, my, my reaction

2552
04:02:16,056 --> 04:02:22,018
is why suffer the negative interest rate spread in the short run while we're, you

2553
04:02:22,018 --> 04:02:24,061
know, going through those, uh, longer term items.

2554
04:02:27,028 --> 04:02:32,011
I, I appreciate I'm commingling subjects, but the new wastewater treatment plant

2555
04:02:32,011 --> 04:02:39,006
and the authority that would govern it. They will set rates for sewer services. They'll

2556
04:02:39,006 --> 04:02:44,085
set bulk rates, bulk rates, yes, and they'll build a town, and then the town will

2557
04:02:45,015 --> 04:02:50,062
bill its customers. OK, so the question behind the question is, can we start kind

2558
04:02:50,062 --> 04:02:55,046
of putting some nickels and more nickels and a little more money in the bank rather

2559
04:02:55,046 --> 04:03:00,047
than having a big increase. At some point just raise the rates a little more than

2560
04:03:00,047 --> 04:03:04,092
inflation so we start to build the reserves for sewer and I don't know if water can

2561
04:03:04,092 --> 04:03:10,027
cover sewer, but I just don't want to shock our constituents with a 30% increase

2562
04:03:10,027 --> 04:03:15,012
one year. Yes, and I will say that the last rate study that was. Adopted included

2563
04:03:15,012 --> 04:03:20,064
the adoption of a surcharge on the sewer which started that building and the increases

2564
04:03:20,064 --> 04:03:26,056
over the first three years were 4.8% and it was just this year that went down to

2565
04:03:26,056 --> 04:03:30,076
an inflationary adjustment so when we get these new rate studies then you'll have

2566
04:03:30,076 --> 04:03:33,028
a whole new. Model to look

2567
04:03:37,069 --> 04:03:44,024
Um, again, with the sewer fund, the 3% increase in rates is included in this, um,

2568
04:03:44,057 --> 04:03:51,048
packet, but the biggest piece next year is the beginning of, uh, design and engineering

2569
04:03:51,048 --> 04:03:57,007
for the new plant. So, over the next two years, you'll see $2 million each year and

2570
04:03:57,007 --> 04:04:03,068
that would be the town's half of the design and engineering costs as we estimate

2571
04:04:03,068 --> 04:04:04,028
them today.

2572
04:04:10,058 --> 04:04:16,091
We're starting to taper off our infiltration, um, budget there inflow and infiltration,

2573
04:04:16,093 --> 04:04:22,041
the INI, um. We're really feeling good about where we're, the progress that we're

2574
04:04:22,041 --> 04:04:27,045
making on that. So, we're starting to taper that down, um, and then start working

2575
04:04:27,045 --> 04:04:31,069
on some of our other infrastructure in the collection system, um, which will be like

2576
04:04:31,069 --> 04:04:35,039
that adder in the future that'll go on top of like the bulk rates like we still have

2577
04:04:35,039 --> 04:04:42,044
to take care of all of our collection system. So Elizabeth just admit and picked

2578
04:04:42,044 --> 04:04:46,047
the um the reference on the wastewater treatment preliminary costs are, it should

2579
04:04:46,047 --> 04:04:52,024
have been 3 and not 2, just at that last line. And then, Scott, my question for you

2580
04:04:52,024 --> 04:04:59,002
is, Um, I know we put in some metering, monitoring of, of sewer. Where are we at

2581
04:04:59,002 --> 04:05:05,058
with that and is it, is the data useful? So, we, yes, we, we are monitoring out of

2582
04:05:05,058 --> 04:05:11,094
Boston Commons and that data is useful. Um, we're still figuring out how we can get

2583
04:05:11,094 --> 04:05:16,026
our skated to work to build us reports out of that, um, which we'll get there. It's

2584
04:05:16,026 --> 04:05:20,017
just, it's a process of getting everything kind of lined up in the back end that

2585
04:05:20,017 --> 04:05:24,056
Pat Drew is working on currently. Um, and then we're working on putting one on our

2586
04:05:24,056 --> 04:05:29,016
primary trunk line that goes down the poop chute there. Um, they gave us kind of

2587
04:05:29,016 --> 04:05:36,076
a mockup of what the meter looks like. Um, and now we're tasked with trying to figure

2588
04:05:36,076 --> 04:05:42,008
out how we can fit kind of a square peg and a round hole down there. Um, and so that's

2589
04:05:42,008 --> 04:05:46,073
kind of our fall project to see how we can get that thing installed inside of our

2590
04:05:46,073 --> 04:05:52,021
existing infrastructure. Um, The ideal if we can. If not, then we might have to put

2591
04:05:52,021 --> 04:05:57,073
in a new manhole that would be more like a monitoring manhole, um, but Nolan's pretty

2592
04:05:57,073 --> 04:06:01,085
confident that he can make a fit. Um, we'll just take some modifications, but ultimately

2593
04:06:01,085 --> 04:06:06,065
that will be our most important. So the plausible in terms of metering our uh our

2594
04:06:06,065 --> 04:06:14,041
flows and it'll be both volume and quality. Uh, it'll meter just volume. Yeah. Which

2595
04:06:14,041 --> 04:06:19,043
is really what we're looking for, like qua quality, we can, I mean, we can do a test

2596
04:06:19,005 --> 04:06:25,065
um manhole just about anywhere. Um, but to get everything from our system, it's got

2597
04:06:25,065 --> 04:06:29,025
to be kind of in the right manhole. Um, and so that's what we're trying to figure

2598
04:06:29,025 --> 04:06:34,031
out right now. Got it. It's tough to isolate that section of line. It's got a lot

2599
04:06:34,031 --> 04:06:34,085
of flow.

2600
04:06:49,005 --> 04:06:52,043
Budget is plaza and refuge services.

2601
04:06:54,073 --> 04:07:02,073
Sorry guys, I had one, I'm sorry, I had one question. Um, there's $80,000 of

2602
04:07:02,073 --> 04:07:08,002
legal sewer. Is that the, the Catherine Wynn money that we're spending to create

2603
04:07:08,002 --> 04:07:14,063
the authority? That is, those are the sewer authority costs and those are split off

2604
04:07:14,063 --> 04:07:18,087
the top with Telluride. So I get the invoice and then bill them half.

2605
04:07:21,036 --> 04:07:27,068
And we think it's gonna be 80,000 in 2026 and another 80. Um, you know, I haven't

2606
04:07:27,068 --> 04:07:33,052
had any indication on that, so I mean, I think the reality is our goal is to have

2607
04:07:33,052 --> 04:07:39,078
that sorority authority document completed by the end of 2026. So I'm not sure we'd

2608
04:07:39,078 --> 04:07:46,000
need to keep Catherine on another 80,000. It's not just. Uh, yeah, there you go.

2609
04:07:46,014 --> 04:07:50,044
I'm adding these up right now. Um, I think you probably will still need some money

2610
04:07:50,062 --> 04:07:55,069
in there, but a lot of it will end up being Garfield and and Garfield and Heck, and

2611
04:07:55,069 --> 04:08:00,072
then this will just then this will go to the authority, yeah, so I will bring that

2612
04:08:00,074 --> 04:08:08,056
down significantly. Scott, your total is $86,000 right? Well,

2613
04:08:08,058 --> 04:08:11,025
you have, you, you have to get to 750, so.

2614
04:08:13,039 --> 04:08:18,002
And then I'm adding 300 for the grant funding that I forgot, so we're 386, we're

2615
04:08:18,002 --> 04:08:25,058
halfway there, Harvey, halfway. It's the Jerry Lewis telethon. That's exactly what

2616
04:08:25,058 --> 04:08:27,083
I was thinking, the Jerry Lewis telephone.

2617
04:08:30,099 --> 04:08:37,079
We totally are, yeah. And, and we expect just, uh, we expect the regional sewer capital

2618
04:08:37,079 --> 04:08:44,056
to be a lot less this year than last year. This is based on the initial budget numbers

2619
04:08:44,058 --> 04:08:50,017
that we got from Telluride. Because they've done a lot of the work that, that, you

2620
04:08:50,017 --> 04:08:53,008
know, they had this whole long list of things to improve the plan and those, those

2621
04:08:53,008 --> 04:09:00,075
are getting done in 2026. I would say that that's what this suggests. Yeah, I mean

2622
04:09:00,075 --> 04:09:05,015
there are continual capital improvements. They're generally higher than they've been

2623
04:09:05,015 --> 04:09:11,062
in years past, but I guess you don't know. This would be our percentage of the regional

2624
04:09:11,062 --> 04:09:12,007
sewer.

2625
04:09:16,017 --> 04:09:17,091
OK. Plaza Services.

2626
04:09:21,009 --> 04:09:28,087
And again this is one that has a utility question. Um, we, our natural gas

2627
04:09:28,087 --> 04:09:33,071
has just fluctuated a lot because this is where all of our plaza snow melt comes

2628
04:09:33,071 --> 04:09:40,049
into play and our plaza snow melt is Billed to us from uh by the Madeleine. So, you

2629
04:09:40,049 --> 04:09:44,077
know, we just, we wait and get our invoices and then we know what it is. We do review

2630
04:09:44,077 --> 04:09:49,092
it but you know this one is a little bit more of a guess and this I went a little

2631
04:09:49,098 --> 04:09:55,053
off of the The idea that I would just use this year's number with the energy outlook

2632
04:09:55,053 --> 04:10:01,021
because we are anticipating quite a bit of snow this season and hopefully we'll get

2633
04:10:01,021 --> 04:10:09,019
that. Um, I applied an escalator to what we saw in 2025

2634
04:10:09,038 --> 04:10:14,045
and then another escalator because we came in so far under this year. So, um, this

2635
04:10:14,045 --> 04:10:18,029
is one that, um, I guess I did not.

2636
04:10:20,039 --> 04:10:26,023
Um, this is one that's kind of a For lack of a better term, a wild guess. So, um,

2637
04:10:26,044 --> 04:10:31,047
but it looks like a lot less than the original 26 budget, right? Yes, cause I think

2638
04:10:31,047 --> 04:10:37,058
I, I brought it back 3% and then I applied um an escalator, but I think

2639
04:10:38,006 --> 04:10:45,004
Possibly given the snow projections, it might be worth kind of going somewhere between

2640
04:10:45,004 --> 04:10:50,088
what we saw in 2024 where we had really high prices in 2025, which was a more normal

2641
04:10:50,088 --> 04:10:55,083
snow year. So I, I probably um could bring that up a bit.

2642
04:10:57,094 --> 04:11:05,071
At least up to at least up to 25 numbers, right? OK. I mean, we also have some

2643
04:11:05,071 --> 04:11:10,079
efficiencies in the in the new boilers like those have kind of a predictive component

2644
04:11:10,079 --> 04:11:14,091
to them where they're able to like cross reference what's going on with weather and

2645
04:11:14,091 --> 04:11:19,099
preheat the slab. Um, so instead of waiting for the storm to show up when everything's

2646
04:11:19,099 --> 04:11:23,087
at its like absolute coldest in the middle of the night, those slabs will start to

2647
04:11:23,087 --> 04:11:29,011
preheat, um, so you're not getting quite as big of a draw to get everything up to

2648
04:11:29,016 --> 04:11:31,003
a temperature where it's actually melting in snow.

2649
04:11:33,085 --> 04:11:38,086
So we could see some efficiencies, but I will bring that back up to 2025 number.

2650
04:11:39,021 --> 04:11:43,006
I thought that that was my formula, but it wasn't, um, yeah, and, and that goes against

2651
04:11:43,006 --> 04:11:49,008
Scott number. Scott's number, by the way. I know, I know. So Scott, we lost 9. You're

2652
04:11:49,008 --> 04:11:54,001
at a 77,000 and then 3, well, 377.

2653
04:12:03,035 --> 04:12:07,058
Do we have any other plasma services accomplishments for 2026 that may have gotten

2654
04:12:07,058 --> 04:12:12,098
solved today? Any excuse me, Tucker? Any other plaza services issues that may have

2655
04:12:12,098 --> 04:12:18,074
gotten solved today? Oh yeah, well, we did, uh, Brew and Waste did finally bring

2656
04:12:18,074 --> 04:12:26,042
out the plastic bins and their new trailer and their EV OHV, um, and the

2657
04:12:26,042 --> 04:12:32,062
wheels, the special wheels, the special wheels, it's very quiet, um, and I actually,

2658
04:12:32,083 --> 04:12:37,009
when I took a little break to go check on some projects, I saw all of the steel dumpsters

2659
04:12:37,011 --> 04:12:41,006
on a flatbed driving out of Mount Village. I think we should have, we should have

2660
04:12:41,006 --> 04:12:48,012
a ribbon cutting. Right. Gosh, I think a lot of people would be really pleased that

2661
04:12:48,014 --> 04:12:53,026
we've fixed this problem. I hope so. Yeah, we haven't yet seen them haul any of the

2662
04:12:53,026 --> 04:12:57,001
heavier containers after they're full, but traditionally that's been when everything's

2663
04:12:57,001 --> 04:13:01,074
at its quietest. So Brett did send me a video of them hauling an empty container

2664
04:13:01,074 --> 04:13:05,097
out to the plaza, and you could hear the leaves cracking underneath his boots louder

2665
04:13:05,097 --> 04:13:10,073
than the machine moving across the plaza. Let's, let's wait to congratulate, let's

2666
04:13:10,073 --> 04:13:16,084
wait for congratulations till we know they work. I it's true. I mean, our complaints

2667
04:13:16,084 --> 04:13:22,008
were kind of far and wide all the way up to benchmark. Um, I've spent more time than

2668
04:13:22,008 --> 04:13:28,085
I care to on the issue in managing complaints and we all have. So I really hope this

2669
04:13:28,085 --> 04:13:36,053
all works for us. Um, we are in an imperfect community that was built in really eccentric

2670
04:13:36,053 --> 04:13:42,083
ways and we hope this works. And Tucker, didn't you say JD couldn't leave until that

2671
04:13:42,083 --> 04:13:45,052
was done? That was the deal. That was the deal.

2672
04:13:48,014 --> 04:13:53,011
So he's fulfilled that. Mhm. We are a little bit ahead. Do we wanna take, I know

2673
04:13:53,011 --> 04:13:57,049
this is, do we wanna take? Yes, I was just about ready to say if we're done with

2674
04:13:57,051 --> 04:14:01,061
that, we're gonna have a 5 minute break and then we will, we'll wrap it up. Well,

2675
04:14:01,071 --> 04:14:02,006
let's thank you.

2676
04:14:25,019 --> 04:14:25,054
Good.

2677
04:14:27,062 --> 04:14:34,096
Recording in progress. All right, we are back in session. Item number 13, Mountain

2678
04:14:34,096 --> 04:14:36,014
Village Housing Authority.

2679
04:14:43,076 --> 04:14:44,066
Just turn the mic off.

2680
04:14:47,001 --> 04:14:52,002
Um, so the housing authority, uh, the Mountain Village Authority, Affordable Housing

2681
04:14:52,002 --> 04:14:59,009
Department in the Housing Authority is, uh, I think I'm just about done. Yeah, we're

2682
04:14:59,009 --> 04:15:04,043
talking about housing now. Do we, we don't need to reconvene though, do we? Or do

2683
04:15:04,043 --> 04:15:09,018
we, as the housing we need to convene as the housing authority? Um, I don't. Do you

2684
04:15:09,018 --> 04:15:14,006
need to just for review if I'm not making any action? OK, just asking. Yeah, I'm

2685
04:15:14,006 --> 04:15:22,001
not taking any action. Um, so the biggest thing in the housing authority next year

2686
04:15:22,028 --> 04:15:28,001
is the continued development with development on Ilium. Uh, there's an anticipated

2687
04:15:28,036 --> 04:15:34,063
$300,000 in grant funding that's been applied for to offset, um, the entitlement

2688
04:15:34,063 --> 04:15:39,007
costs and some of the other expenses next year totaling $911,000.

2689
04:15:43,016 --> 04:15:47,073
Yes, but, um, Lauren, uh, helped apply for those grant funds. She's working with

2690
04:15:47,075 --> 04:15:50,061
them, yeah, she's working with them on all of the grants.

2691
04:15:53,019 --> 04:15:55,098
So that is the largest item.

2692
04:15:58,018 --> 04:16:02,008
Going on next year and I think Brittany had a lot of goals in there that don't necessarily

2693
04:16:02,008 --> 04:16:08,077
have dollars associated with them but just public education on the um housing policies

2694
04:16:08,077 --> 04:16:10,046
in the town and working on.

2695
04:16:12,078 --> 04:16:16,081
Informing those. And essentially, we've got Brittany as the housing director and

2696
04:16:16,081 --> 04:16:23,081
then Kate, half of Katie's time goes to housing admin. And I will also say that we

2697
04:16:23,081 --> 04:16:29,004
followed the same logic as we did last year. We didn't outright budget for any yes

2698
04:16:29,003 --> 04:16:33,006
program funding, but we'll bring that to the council if that comes up, um, just like

2699
04:16:33,082 --> 04:16:38,057
happened this year. And the same is with the mortgage mortgage assistance fund that's

2700
04:16:38,057 --> 04:16:43,064
on here also. If we receive applications, we will come forward, um, with supplemental

2701
04:16:43,074 --> 04:16:50,046
appropriation requests. How do you forecast the mitigation fees? It's based on the

2702
04:16:50,046 --> 04:16:56,085
housing, um, what's in the housing pipeline. So, again, that's one that I would expect

2703
04:16:56,085 --> 04:16:59,066
to see tightened up a little bit by the November meeting.

2704
04:17:04,003 --> 04:17:10,093
Mhm. It, it depends on how much, uh, yeah, actually I don't know the answer to that.

2705
04:17:11,002 --> 04:17:14,061
I'm getting to that point where I don't know all how all community development answers.

2706
04:17:14,082 --> 04:17:20,089
Yes, it is formulaic and applied formulaic. They pay it at the at the permitting,

2707
04:17:21,001 --> 04:17:28,008
permitting, OK, so you can reasonably estimate, estimate the, um, extra million dollars

2708
04:17:28,022 --> 04:17:34,099
for ilium that we've added. Um, how far does that get us in the project work plan?

2709
04:17:36,001 --> 04:17:43,061
This is for this year's Ilium um expenses, the 911,000. Uh Helium

2710
04:17:44,004 --> 04:17:51,087
preliminary costs capital 1.318 million. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, so that um gets you

2711
04:17:51,087 --> 04:17:57,003
through the um entitlements. Yeah, it should get us through entitlements and then

2712
04:17:57,032 --> 04:18:03,047
all of the formative work we need to do with the um for service exchange. So definitely

2713
04:18:03,047 --> 04:18:08,083
to the decision point with council and rural homes to, you know, OK, but we, we're

2714
04:18:08,083 --> 04:18:14,028
not moving any dirt with this money yet, no. No. Good.

2715
04:18:25,075 --> 04:18:31,019
Any other um questions on that budget or should we move forward to talk to BCA and

2716
04:18:31,074 --> 04:18:34,004
um the proposed rent structure for next year?

2717
04:18:39,046 --> 04:18:45,014
I see it. Um, so just to give a little history on this, we have been working towards

2718
04:18:45,014 --> 04:18:50,074
building rates up to better cover the expenses of the property and to at some point

2719
04:18:50,074 --> 04:18:56,069
hopefully help to extinguish debt and develop a reserve or start to build a reserve.

2720
04:18:57,004 --> 04:19:03,027
Um, a couple of years ago we did a An analysis for council and it had some pretty

2721
04:19:03,027 --> 04:19:08,043
large rent increases based on AMI and it was decided at that point that we wanted

2722
04:19:08,043 --> 04:19:16,001
to scale those increases. Um, and so this year in Proposing the rent

2723
04:19:16,019 --> 04:19:22,036
increases, we looked at um AMI's on the property and we looked at the um

2724
04:19:24,001 --> 04:19:31,079
The uh cost of comparative housing in the region and then we also looked at what

2725
04:19:32,001 --> 04:19:38,047
the minimum household income would be to have to, to, um. Be in line with that 30%

2726
04:19:38,049 --> 04:19:44,032
benchmark that's so often used, uh, and that resulted in, as you can see, our phases

2727
04:19:44,032 --> 04:19:50,076
1 through 3 are, um, set at really low AMI rents and even though we've been increasing

2728
04:19:50,076 --> 04:19:56,000
them year over year, we've seen huge changes in the AMI schedules that are published

2729
04:19:56,000 --> 04:20:01,033
every year so we're kind of just treading water a little bit in that sense. Um, but

2730
04:20:01,057 --> 04:20:08,087
the lowest, um, AMIs are on our studios and that is where we tend to have our lowest

2731
04:20:08,093 --> 04:20:15,049
income residents. So currently to meet that 30% housing rule in a studio, a person

2732
04:20:15,093 --> 04:20:23,033
would be making between 1709 and 1947 an hour, which is in line with

2733
04:20:23,041 --> 04:20:29,078
um. Some of with the lower paying wages we've seen in the area, um, and just Elizabeth

2734
04:20:29,078 --> 04:20:36,007
that 1709 on a 2000 hour work week, right? I mean work year, yes, that's just kind

2735
04:20:36,007 --> 04:20:42,047
of so and yeah and with the seasonality people actually don't. Don't usually get

2736
04:20:42,047 --> 04:20:47,063
paid. All year, right, yeah, for a couple of weeks they're off here and there or

2737
04:20:47,065 --> 04:20:53,001
or during offseason I should say, um, the other thing Brittany pulled together some

2738
04:20:53,001 --> 04:20:59,003
data just so you know right now our, our split in tiers for VCA phases 1 through

2739
04:20:59,003 --> 04:21:06,098
3 is those earning under 100% AMI and those earning over. Um, the split right now

2740
04:21:07,001 --> 04:21:13,033
is out of those we have 222 units in. The earlier phases of VCA, 2 of those are Munchkins,

2741
04:21:13,038 --> 04:21:20,085
so I pulled those out for these. Calculations, but 36 of those, um, 36 units or households

2742
04:21:21,023 --> 04:21:26,009
are over the 100% threshold, so that's about 16%. So the majority of the tenants

2743
04:21:26,009 --> 04:21:33,001
in the older phases are under, um, 100% AMI and of those over

2744
04:21:33,001 --> 04:21:40,008
140, um. There's 11 households which equates to 5%

2745
04:21:40,082 --> 04:21:48,057
of the population. It's above 140. So, we do see alignment in the older phases of

2746
04:21:48,057 --> 04:21:53,061
VCA with income. Uh, there is, you know, every once in a while, there'll be an outlier

2747
04:21:53,061 --> 04:21:58,073
that's been there for a really long time and I think, uh, you know, we do have one

2748
04:21:58,073 --> 04:22:05,003
tenant at a much higher AMI. than everybody else. But it seems to be that the majority

2749
04:22:05,046 --> 04:22:13,033
are, you know, 84% are under that 108% impact threshold. Um, as far as is

2750
04:22:13,033 --> 04:22:21,013
our rent 30% of AMI or 30% of the income they were. So these tables show that our

2751
04:22:21,013 --> 04:22:26,077
current, I mean our proposed rents in, um, I don't know if you have the memo open,

2752
04:22:27,014 --> 04:22:34,031
but our proposed rents for VCA phases, um, 1 through 3 range from 45

2753
04:22:34,074 --> 04:22:40,089
to 89% AMI depending on the unit size, and it, it makes some more sense when you

2754
04:22:40,089 --> 04:22:45,041
have the higher units at a higher AMI because you have more than one wage earner

2755
04:22:45,041 --> 04:22:51,002
in those. Larger units. So, but, but just to clarify Dan's question, we, we don't

2756
04:22:51,012 --> 04:22:56,009
determine the rent individually for each tenant based upon their income. We're just

2757
04:22:56,009 --> 04:23:00,067
using the AMI comparison to show where our rents are, where our rates are. We do

2758
04:23:00,067 --> 04:23:04,084
have two tiers which we implemented a few years ago, so they do come in and they

2759
04:23:04,084 --> 04:23:11,019
do provide those that documentation, and they either are set at a rent that is for

2760
04:23:11,019 --> 04:23:17,078
a tenant who has under 100% of published AMI or over 100%. So thanks, Harvey, you

2761
04:23:17,078 --> 04:23:23,034
said it better than I. Um, so what I got our friends in the next town and created

2762
04:23:23,034 --> 04:23:29,036
some challenges for them is they would have this, the rents were based off of income

2763
04:23:29,039 --> 04:23:37,026
and so if you got uh promoted at work or a, a big bonus or um your, your

2764
04:23:37,026 --> 04:23:41,033
boyfriend moves in with you, the rents would really spike. I just want to be clear,

2765
04:23:41,038 --> 04:23:46,047
we don't do that. We do not do that, but I will say that if somebody who has previously

2766
04:23:46,076 --> 04:23:51,092
under 100% AMI comes in and their rent has grown or they have a new tenant, they

2767
04:23:51,094 --> 04:23:57,053
could move to the one tier higher, but we do not have levels A through J like Telluride

2768
04:23:57,053 --> 04:24:03,089
has. OK, so you know, when you look at or or sorry, just to interject it or stated

2769
04:24:03,089 --> 04:24:11,042
another way again. If your AMI is 101%, you'll pay the same rent as if your AMI is

2770
04:24:11,048 --> 04:24:18,075
120% or 130%. Once you're in that category. That is the rent. Yes. And, and not to

2771
04:24:18,075 --> 04:24:23,034
get competitive here, but I'd like that we do it that way because we want people

2772
04:24:23,079 --> 04:24:28,047
getting bonuses and saving money and getting promoted, you know. And if we can have

2773
04:24:28,047 --> 04:24:32,047
two people in a bedroom rather than one, those are all great things we want to have

2774
04:24:32,047 --> 04:24:35,099
happen. And we just don't want and not having an incentive to hide their income.

2775
04:24:36,085 --> 04:24:42,028
Exactly, and a whole bunch of that goes on. So we, we definitely have a much tighter

2776
04:24:42,003 --> 04:24:49,052
range at VCA than than they do, but I will say when you look at the phase

2777
04:24:49,066 --> 04:24:56,065
4 units, those are aimed at a higher, um, AMI range and according to the grant we

2778
04:24:56,065 --> 04:25:00,076
got we had originally set. Those rents at 3 tiers instead of 2 because that's how

2779
04:25:01,005 --> 04:25:06,032
um the grant documents were written. We have the ability to scale that back to 2

2780
04:25:06,032 --> 04:25:12,088
if we um if the if everybody decided to but we really haven't seen too many tenants

2781
04:25:12,088 --> 04:25:20,011
come in at over that 100, 140%. Um, so those rents are in here as well,

2782
04:25:20,089 --> 04:25:28,084
but those percentages are, um, we're recommending increasing by 2.5% instead of 5%

2783
04:25:28,084 --> 04:25:33,028
because those are following much closer in line to the AMI targets that we had when

2784
04:25:33,028 --> 04:25:38,035
we developed the property. Um, so, and it, and, and I'll be honest, those are harder

2785
04:25:38,037 --> 04:25:45,076
units to rent out. So, um, you know, as we look to really stabilize some of the vacancy

2786
04:25:45,098 --> 04:25:53,011
in that building, the 5% increase. So it's probably a little too high for that.

2787
04:25:54,005 --> 04:25:59,057
We're getting very, very close. There's 2 vacant units currently, yeah, and we started

2788
04:25:59,057 --> 04:26:06,056
with 8 from a few months ago, so we've made a ton of progress. So, so, Elizabeth,

2789
04:26:06,061 --> 04:26:11,064
just for explanation and context, one of the things I found difficult is when we

2790
04:26:11,064 --> 04:26:15,092
compare mountainville to Ted Ride, they have such a wide range, and I assume there's

2791
04:26:15,092 --> 04:26:22,054
some good reason for that range. Um, is it, is there any concept of saying, well,

2792
04:26:22,093 --> 04:26:27,085
what's the median that's being paid, or what's the middle point, or what's some other

2793
04:26:27,085 --> 04:26:33,045
thing, only because, uh, if I'm trying to do a comparison. It's hard to compare it

2794
04:26:33,045 --> 04:26:37,055
with such a wide range. Yeah, and I think I may have given those. Do you have those,

2795
04:26:37,064 --> 04:26:43,053
Elaine? Eileen has those and the reason that the range is so high is because they

2796
04:26:43,053 --> 04:26:51,032
have um thank you they have A through J levels of rent rates and um

2797
04:26:51,078 --> 04:26:56,077
you know so the median in some of these so if I look at the studio kind of their

2798
04:26:56,077 --> 04:27:04,042
median range here is. Let's see, studio. I don't know, that's tough. It's probably

2799
04:27:04,042 --> 04:27:11,098
about $1800 to $2000. But their lowest range is between 45 and 60%

2800
04:27:11,098 --> 04:27:18,000
AMI and those are at $1130 which aren't much over what ours are. It's very difficult

2801
04:27:18,000 --> 04:27:23,039
because they don't publish their range, their AMI. Aren't they going to work on adjusting

2802
04:27:23,039 --> 04:27:28,000
these is what I understand as well. Pardon me? Try to tell you that, aren't they

2803
04:27:28,000 --> 04:27:33,084
working on changing some of these various levels that they have because everyone

2804
04:27:33,084 --> 04:27:39,076
felt that it was overcomplicated? So I believe that they stuck with there, if I remember

2805
04:27:39,076 --> 04:27:44,008
correctly, they decided not to change their rate structure. For this coming year

2806
04:27:44,094 --> 04:27:52,054
that they stuck with the 2025 AMI calculations instead of using the 2026 um but they

2807
04:27:52,054 --> 04:27:58,006
I I don't hired a consultant to come in and yeah I'm analyze yeah so I haven't seen

2808
04:27:58,062 --> 04:28:05,006
their 2027 rate structure. So, so just to try to help me out here, so if I'm, you

2809
04:28:05,006 --> 04:28:10,053
can do studio, you can do one bedroom, one bath, but just pick one of those and say,

2810
04:28:11,001 --> 04:28:16,000
is it possible to say, well, where do 80% of the rents fall, you know, kind of a

2811
04:28:16,000 --> 04:28:20,032
thing, because they're going to be outliers both low and high. Yeah, I don't have

2812
04:28:20,032 --> 04:28:25,029
that data, but I could reach out to them and ask. No, that's fine. I was just curious

2813
04:28:25,029 --> 04:28:26,089
if, if it was available. That's all.

2814
04:28:29,075 --> 04:28:34,058
Because it's, it's hard for me to say, you know, where, where we fall. I mean, I'm

2815
04:28:34,058 --> 04:28:40,097
making up an example, but, you know, if one bedroom, one bath, it's from 785 to 4000,

2816
04:28:41,006 --> 04:28:47,027
but if most of them are. 2000. Well then that gives me information about how we,

2817
04:28:47,036 --> 04:28:51,047
how we compare. That's, that's all I'm trying to accomplish. So I, I don't have that

2818
04:28:51,047 --> 04:28:56,027
level of data. We can work to see if we can get that, um, but that was one of the

2819
04:28:56,027 --> 04:29:02,008
reasons too that we went ahead and put in, um, kind of what these rents equate to

2820
04:29:02,008 --> 04:29:08,091
on an hourly earnings rate just so that council could see on our end. So, you're.

2821
04:29:10,005 --> 04:29:14,004
Because it's closed, there's, we can't see the application because we're not taking

2822
04:29:14,004 --> 04:29:20,004
applications right now, right? So you require a person per bedroom, but obviously

2823
04:29:20,004 --> 04:29:25,028
that's gonna be a very different financial makeup if it's like a single parent with

2824
04:29:25,028 --> 04:29:32,095
child versus If it's like multiple income earners in the unit. So, like, how do we

2825
04:29:32,095 --> 04:29:39,039
account for that type of variability to make sure that it's affordable for people

2826
04:29:39,039 --> 04:29:46,096
who need X amount of space, you know, but also not just like Super inexpensive if

2827
04:29:46,096 --> 04:29:53,072
you put together several income earners. So right now, um, I think to have more variability,

2828
04:29:53,085 --> 04:29:59,008
you'd need to add more tiers of gross income. Because right now, these tiers are

2829
04:29:59,008 --> 04:30:05,039
based on gross household income. So, you know, if you had two people making under

2830
04:30:05,039 --> 04:30:10,063
100,000, I mean under 100% AMI or one person, they'd have the same rate. If you had

2831
04:30:10,063 --> 04:30:16,083
two people that maybe were up together at 300% AMI they would pay the same rate as

2832
04:30:16,083 --> 04:30:21,094
some. At 100% and I think that that's what you were mentioning which is why I think

2833
04:30:21,094 --> 04:30:27,006
these statistics are pretty interesting because they're based on the household income

2834
04:30:27,089 --> 04:30:35,024
so we have you know we have only 16% of our tenants that over um. 100%

2835
04:30:35,024 --> 04:30:41,004
AMI and uh of the total population we only have 5% over 140 AMI. So I think that

2836
04:30:41,004 --> 04:30:46,036
as we continue to look at that if we saw that we had multiple households at 300 or

2837
04:30:46,036 --> 04:30:51,088
multiple households at, you know, 250, I think we may wanna look at those tiers again,

2838
04:30:52,041 --> 04:30:58,011
but it seems to me right now that we don't have a lot of outliers, you know, earning.

2839
04:30:59,088 --> 04:31:05,032
And what you're doing is you're collecting income on every, every person over 18,

2840
04:31:05,051 --> 04:31:11,002
person over 18, OK, yeah, so I, I can see the concern of that as we move forward.

2841
04:31:11,011 --> 04:31:16,042
I think it's gonna be really important to kind of monitor that situation, but right

2842
04:31:16,042 --> 04:31:22,046
now creating more income tiers for maybe 5% of VCA would probably just complicate

2843
04:31:22,046 --> 04:31:27,034
the process. But if you're at 100, 140% of AMI, you're probably gonna try to buy

2844
04:31:27,034 --> 04:31:33,022
a house, right? No, that won't get you close to buying a house here. Uh-huh, yeah,

2845
04:31:33,035 --> 04:31:38,003
but, uh, but I think we come back to the main point which is the, the rent. We come

2846
04:31:38,003 --> 04:31:43,014
back to the main point which is the rent is not set other than 1, you know, below

2847
04:31:43,014 --> 04:31:48,039
or above 100. The rent is not set on the, on the collective income. It's just. Which,

2848
04:31:48,052 --> 04:31:52,033
what's your rent to start with? That's all. No, no, it's set on collective income

2849
04:31:53,004 --> 04:31:57,087
and sorry, oh, but pardon me, it's only to tell you whether you're below or above

2850
04:31:57,087 --> 04:32:03,009
100%, correct. And that's why this data is saying that it doesn't look like in, according

2851
04:32:03,092 --> 04:32:07,079
to the documents we have collected, it doesn't look like we have a huge issue in

2852
04:32:07,079 --> 04:32:14,015
the older phases of VCA with people with, you know, you know, 200 to 300%, yeah.

2853
04:32:15,004 --> 04:32:20,097
Mhm. So, so to go to Lean's, to Lean's example, I mean, if, if there's a, a single

2854
04:32:20,097 --> 04:32:28,095
parent, but their income is at 101, they're gonna pay the same rent as two people.

2855
04:32:29,099 --> 04:32:35,003
Whose income is also over 100. Yeah. Correct.

2856
04:32:41,076 --> 04:32:45,067
And the reason that we want to have this discussion and, and council will only give

2857
04:32:45,067 --> 04:32:51,092
us direction at this point because no action can be taken, but um, We, in, in order

2858
04:32:52,000 --> 04:32:58,017
to increase rents in Jan for January 1st, 2027 leases, you have to give tenants 60

2859
04:32:58,017 --> 04:33:03,021
days notice. So, we have to bring back the rate schedule at the October meeting.

2860
04:33:03,047 --> 04:33:07,009
So it's important that we get some direction on how everybody's feeling about what's

2861
04:33:07,009 --> 04:33:07,008
proposed today.

2862
04:33:09,037 --> 04:33:13,068
So, will there be, will the October meeting, will we have a work session at all on

2863
04:33:13,068 --> 04:33:19,076
this, or we just have this and then, well, we'll bring forward the, the um Fee resolutions

2864
04:33:19,076 --> 04:33:25,073
and council can have discussion at that time. Do we have a count of how many of our

2865
04:33:25,073 --> 04:33:33,067
tenants requested um good neighbor assistance this last year? Me too. And to be clear,

2866
04:33:34,003 --> 04:33:40,082
the, the, the meeting's next week, right? OK, I just wanna make sure I didn't. I

2867
04:33:40,098 --> 04:33:47,027
think today's our packet deadline. Uh, there were 42 tenants that received Good Neighbor

2868
04:33:47,027 --> 04:33:50,009
Fund, um, 42.

2869
04:33:53,044 --> 04:33:57,063
I just think there it suggests that maybe some rents might be too high.

2870
04:34:00,059 --> 04:34:07,001
So roughly, roughly 1 in 20. Yeah. Just quickly looking at this, it looks like, um,

2871
04:34:07,011 --> 04:34:13,074
just, no, I'm sorry, 20%, not 1 in 20, sorry. It's 20%. Yes. A lot of these people's

2872
04:34:13,074 --> 04:34:17,074
occupations had to do with the service industry and ski resorts, so it might not

2873
04:34:17,074 --> 04:34:21,046
be that the rents were so high, it was that they were flat out out of work for a

2874
04:34:21,046 --> 04:34:22,003
portion of time.

2875
04:34:24,096 --> 04:34:29,035
See, what I, uh, what I keep coming back to that, uh, I focus on, we should just

2876
04:34:29,035 --> 04:34:36,055
be setting our rents at a fair comparison to the, uh, to the quote market, which

2877
04:34:36,055 --> 04:34:39,066
is, you know, comparable. That's, that's what I focus on.

2878
04:34:42,007 --> 04:34:48,024
Uh, Rick, you're on the, um, On the VCA advisory Committee, do you have any, do you,

2879
04:34:48,036 --> 04:34:55,003
do you hear anything? The input on this. Why I was bringing up the telling ride,

2880
04:34:55,004 --> 04:34:55,009
um,

2881
04:34:57,082 --> 04:35:02,069
And their structure and, and them reviewing it is because the less complicated the

2882
04:35:02,069 --> 04:35:10,065
better is what I have from everyone is no one, and I'm referring to not

2883
04:35:10,065 --> 04:35:16,065
necessarily BCA but um Shandoka, right? Uh friends that live in Shandoka, or friends

2884
04:35:16,065 --> 04:35:22,048
that have left Shandoka, and the reason is also is they can't, they've made it so

2885
04:35:22,005 --> 04:35:29,074
difficult to really understand. The entire process that it's People

2886
04:35:29,074 --> 04:35:36,009
just decided to leave, right? And then the process increased rents also to a level

2887
04:35:36,009 --> 04:35:43,005
that were no longer affordable at by them adjusting AMI and creating all these various

2888
04:35:43,005 --> 04:35:49,059
tiers. That's the feedback I've heard from folks living in workforce housing, but

2889
04:35:49,099 --> 04:35:55,009
from folks living in VCA. Right now, as we just heard, you know, we only have 2 vacant

2890
04:35:55,009 --> 04:36:01,025
units, and so I don't think that we, wait, isn't that what you just said? Oh, that's,

2891
04:36:01,027 --> 04:36:06,093
um, phase that one is, um, phase 4 right now, but we are still, we still have a very

2892
04:36:06,095 --> 04:36:13,000
low, um, vacancy rate at VCA, correct. I just wanted to confirm it's not 2 units,

2893
04:36:13,007 --> 04:36:19,003
um, property wide. OK, I got super excited. I heard too. Um, I don't think we have

2894
04:36:19,003 --> 04:36:24,011
the same issue, Scott. Uh, a town of Talia I was going through and what's our waiting

2895
04:36:24,011 --> 04:36:29,009
list now? I know I went from 200 to like 160 last night and shattered. It's, it's,

2896
04:36:30,002 --> 04:36:34,043
it's getting lower and lower. So, again, I think we're anticipating opening it back

2897
04:36:34,043 --> 04:36:38,097
up by the end of the year. We're definitely looking at opening up phase 4 waitlist

2898
04:36:38,097 --> 04:36:43,093
as soon as we can get through some other um projects that we're needing priority.

2899
04:36:44,028 --> 04:36:47,097
Um, I'm working on the phase 4 application right now and then I know that the general

2900
04:36:47,097 --> 04:36:53,037
phases 1 through 3 application is not gonna be far behind that. Yeah, and so from

2901
04:36:53,037 --> 04:36:58,052
tenants at VCA, you know, even at the VCA committee, the meetings that we have had,

2902
04:36:58,075 --> 04:37:04,003
um, there's been no conversations really about rent or the issue with getting in

2903
04:37:04,003 --> 04:37:09,075
or any of that. All of our conversations ironically, Scott, still revolve around

2904
04:37:09,075 --> 04:37:15,041
parking. And one of the tenants did exactly what you did and actually canvassed,

2905
04:37:15,067 --> 04:37:22,034
uh, at night the empty parking spaces, and then the garden was the other one that

2906
04:37:22,034 --> 04:37:28,058
was a big topic at the last VCA committee meeting, but, um, no negative feedback

2907
04:37:28,058 --> 04:37:33,077
as it relates to the current structure for rent and waiting lists and vacant units.

2908
04:37:33,095 --> 04:37:36,086
Does that answer your question, Scott? Yeah, thank you.

2909
04:37:39,084 --> 04:37:45,029
And we're in the reserve with respect to the garden, we are putting in a playground,

2910
04:37:45,048 --> 04:37:49,079
we're renovating the dog park, and then the garden comes next year. Is that how that

2911
04:37:49,079 --> 04:37:55,004
works? We are looking at um monies to renovate the dog park and as far as that, we're

2912
04:37:55,004 --> 04:37:59,001
looking at enrichment toys and having more than just wood chips scattered about,

2913
04:37:59,044 --> 04:38:03,093
um, something that, you know, we can. Ducks can actually be out there and play. Um,

2914
04:38:04,006 --> 04:38:09,065
I did not get a great community feedback about renovating the gardens, so I've kind

2915
04:38:09,065 --> 04:38:14,028
of put that to the side for now. Um, and that's based off people who have, go ahead.

2916
04:38:15,059 --> 04:38:19,065
Oh no, I'm sorry, I interrupt. I don't want to interrupt you. Um, so I wanted to

2917
04:38:19,071 --> 04:38:26,036
repursue that in 2028, but I have set the garden aside for right now. And what about

2918
04:38:26,038 --> 04:38:30,089
the basketball court? The basketball court, I didn't put any kind of line items in

2919
04:38:30,089 --> 04:38:34,097
there, but it's some paint and some equipment. That's not something that we really

2920
04:38:34,097 --> 04:38:38,073
needed to budget for. Um, I do want to get it painted and I would like to get an

2921
04:38:38,073 --> 04:38:43,077
equipment shed and stuff like that, but, um, there's also like a, isn't the net,

2922
04:38:43,009 --> 04:38:50,069
there's no net. Yeah, replacing those equipment, that equipment, um, and just repainting

2923
04:38:50,069 --> 04:38:55,033
and maybe a shed, but that, that didn't rise to the level of a capital project. That

2924
04:38:55,033 --> 04:38:58,041
can be done out of maintenance funds. OK.

2925
04:39:02,041 --> 04:39:08,091
OK, just real quick, the debt service on VCA is revenue bonds, or is it, what form

2926
04:39:08,091 --> 04:39:16,071
of debt is it? Um, the, the older bonds are general obligation, OK, and then

2927
04:39:16,071 --> 04:39:22,002
the newer debt that's carried in the general fund. No, it's not general. I thought

2928
04:39:22,002 --> 04:39:26,092
they were revenue. The, well, the old VCAs are revenue bonds. I'm sorry. And then

2929
04:39:26,098 --> 04:39:34,009
the new VCA debt, um, is a, um. Why am I losing my Um, the

2930
04:39:34,009 --> 04:39:42,001
COPs, OK, yeah, sorry. Just by way of context, when I came on council at the

2931
04:39:42,001 --> 04:39:48,037
tail end of the last recession, BCA had a 23% vacancy rate, and we're paying revenue

2932
04:39:48,037 --> 04:39:52,073
bonds. And so when you're missing almost a quarter of your revenue, it started to

2933
04:39:52,073 --> 04:39:57,097
get a little, a little tight about making your bond payments. And so that's why a

2934
04:39:57,097 --> 04:40:02,061
useful lesson to bear in mind as we continue to build new housing.

2935
04:40:07,098 --> 04:40:12,011
So, so Elizabeth, you're looking for guidance. I would go with the recommendation

2936
04:40:12,013 --> 04:40:18,037
that you have laid out. And I think we'll, we'll try in the future to get more um

2937
04:40:19,011 --> 04:40:27,004
data on how Tellurides, um, tenants are falling within those ranges. Yeah, I mean,

2938
04:40:27,019 --> 04:40:31,003
all, all the anecdotal data is that we're still under, you know.

2939
04:40:33,053 --> 04:40:36,099
Agreed. Anything else on BCA?

2940
04:40:40,015 --> 04:40:46,077
Thanks, Brittany. So I think that we should just talk about the um let's run through

2941
04:40:46,077 --> 04:40:52,046
really quick the debt service fund and discuss that and then we can cut, then we

2942
04:40:52,046 --> 04:40:57,082
should touch back to the potential property tax mill levy to close out. How does

2943
04:40:57,082 --> 04:41:00,038
that sound? Perfect. You're good to go. Thank you. Thank you.

2944
04:41:03,007 --> 04:41:07,077
And I don't think there's too much to discuss on the debt service fund. We have um

2945
04:41:07,079 --> 04:41:12,003
two outstanding general obligation bond issues. One for the parking garage which

2946
04:41:12,003 --> 04:41:19,045
the town pays and is covered by a mill levy. And then there is one for the gondola

2947
04:41:19,073 --> 04:41:27,055
remaining that is covered by Telski and TMBOA. So this Budget reflects

2948
04:41:27,055 --> 04:41:34,058
where we set the mill levy to collect the funds necessary to pay the um debt service

2949
04:41:34,064 --> 04:41:38,083
on the parking bonds and then maintain our reserve.

2950
04:41:42,079 --> 04:41:48,094
Just a, a process question. So we, this fund has a surplus. Could that, could that

2951
04:41:48,094 --> 04:41:54,018
be used to pay down bonds without affecting the mill levy? Or even if you pay, even

2952
04:41:54,018 --> 04:41:59,067
if you use the fund's own surplus to pay down some debt, uh, assuming we could, would

2953
04:41:59,067 --> 04:42:03,098
that cause us to have to give up the mill levy? Well, we have reserve funds that

2954
04:42:03,098 --> 04:42:09,057
are tied to these bond issuances that we have to maintain. OK, this is kind of in

2955
04:42:09,057 --> 04:42:15,008
reflection. Of that, but yes, so at the, at in the on at the outer years, and I'll

2956
04:42:15,008 --> 04:42:19,094
talk to, I'll go back through our issuance documents, our reserve may be declining

2957
04:42:20,029 --> 04:42:24,069
that we could use. of that and not bring up the mill levy. OK.

2958
04:42:30,086 --> 04:42:36,077
OK. So this is one that we will actually bring forward at the next council meeting

2959
04:42:37,008 --> 04:42:39,083
and you will have to convene as the Metro District.

2960
04:42:42,006 --> 04:42:42,017
OK.

2961
04:42:45,004 --> 04:42:52,037
And now comes The big discussion. So, um, Uh, the last couple of pages in your packet

2962
04:42:52,037 --> 04:42:58,036
or the supplemental pages. The first was, um, The schedule, the consolidated schedule.

2963
04:42:58,078 --> 04:43:05,009
So, um, You know, if you I think there's two things that people like to look at is

2964
04:43:05,009 --> 04:43:11,053
how the general fund finishes which once we add in the adjustments from uh today

2965
04:43:11,053 --> 04:43:19,007
that we noted, will be at a surplus of roughly um 700, I would say we're

2966
04:43:19,007 --> 04:43:26,066
looking at 750, 760,000 in the general fund. Um, and then that would reduce the

2967
04:43:26,066 --> 04:43:33,006
overall deficit by about another, by 350. So that would be, we'd be looking at an

2968
04:43:33,006 --> 04:43:37,004
overall deficit of about 450,000 as opposed to the 806.

2969
04:43:39,085 --> 04:43:47,039
So we're on page 108. Of the of the packet, no 100 and 109, yes, the

2970
04:43:47,039 --> 04:43:54,031
combined summary under supplemental for the for the for the benefit of our vast viewing

2971
04:43:54,031 --> 04:43:55,087
public, um.

2972
04:43:59,022 --> 04:44:03,045
Well, somebody may, somebody may tune in this. Could, could you just take a few minutes

2973
04:44:03,045 --> 04:44:08,033
and just walk us through either you or Harvey, walk us through what this schedule

2974
04:44:08,033 --> 04:44:13,004
is, the combined summary of town supported funds, and just so we understand what,

2975
04:44:13,014 --> 04:44:18,049
what it's doing and, and why, why it presents the information a little bit differently

2976
04:44:18,049 --> 04:44:23,045
from what we've been seeing all day. Yes. So, Harvey, I'm gonna give it a shot and

2977
04:44:23,045 --> 04:44:24,006
then you can correct me.

2978
04:44:26,026 --> 04:44:32,044
But basically a few years ago um Harvey was interested in seeing a schedule that

2979
04:44:32,044 --> 04:44:36,028
kind of eliminated all the ins and outs and the transfers back and forth between

2980
04:44:36,028 --> 04:44:43,088
funds so um we created this schedule which is which summarizes all of the

2981
04:44:43,088 --> 04:44:51,000
funds that are either governmental. Funds or receive general tax dollar funding at

2982
04:44:51,000 --> 04:44:55,092
certain points. So this excludes the tourism fund, water sewer fund, debt service,

2983
04:44:56,005 --> 04:45:01,051
gondola, and historical museum funds because those have dedicated revenue streams

2984
04:45:01,051 --> 04:45:07,004
that completely support those operations. Um, one of the things that we do in this

2985
04:45:07,004 --> 04:45:12,052
schedule is look at the revenues and try to offset those against the expenses so

2986
04:45:12,052 --> 04:45:19,067
you get a clearer idea of how much is being spent on each function of the town. So.

2987
04:45:21,001 --> 04:45:25,089
Uh, so like when you have lines of miscellaneous revenues or contributions, I have

2988
04:45:26,019 --> 04:45:32,001
allocated those against the expenses below that they offset. So if we got $300,000

2989
04:45:32,003 --> 04:45:37,001
in forestry grants, I would have reduced the forestry expense line by $300,000. So

2990
04:45:37,001 --> 04:45:40,097
it kind of gives you just kind of a net look at what we're spending on all of these

2991
04:45:40,099 --> 04:45:46,029
different functions across the board. Yeah, the, the, just to, to emphasize that

2992
04:45:46,029 --> 04:45:51,081
the concept was, uh, eliminate those funds that it's just an in and out and it doesn't

2993
04:45:51,081 --> 04:45:56,041
really affect, you know, what, what we're spending. And then secondly is to net down

2994
04:45:56,041 --> 04:46:01,045
some things so you can see the net effects so that as Elizabeth just said, if, if

2995
04:46:01,045 --> 04:46:07,033
we're, if we're spending on something, if we're spending 800, but we have a 600,000,

2996
04:46:07,062 --> 04:46:14,009
well, you should see a 200 cost rather than inflating both sides of it. Yes, and

2997
04:46:14,009 --> 04:46:19,034
then I guess the other big thing is we're combining operating capital. Yes, this

2998
04:46:19,034 --> 04:46:25,086
is total funds expended per function, so that is correct. This includes capital spending.

2999
04:46:26,085 --> 04:46:31,032
And, and, and the concept there is, you know, we, we have something in the Capitol

3000
04:46:31,032 --> 04:46:36,007
that says we're gonna spend 800,000 and buy vehicles. Well, we should be looking

3001
04:46:36,009 --> 04:46:41,032
at those in together because that's a true cost of what we decided to spend this

3002
04:46:41,032 --> 04:46:41,057
year.

3003
04:46:43,098 --> 04:46:50,047
OK, and, and just one little detail which is, um, this excludes the tourism fund,

3004
04:46:51,006 --> 04:46:57,034
but as we covered earlier, we actually take several $100,000 out of the tourism fund.

3005
04:46:57,007 --> 04:47:04,029
And use it for things like Oktoberfest or certain salaries. Do we capture that aspect

3006
04:47:04,029 --> 04:47:10,014
of the tourism fund that, um, so when you see down here what the net tourism or the

3007
04:47:10,014 --> 04:47:15,097
Telluride conference center cost is, that is net of the contribution that the tourism

3008
04:47:15,097 --> 04:47:21,057
fund makes to the marketing to offset that. So yes, that is net against the schedule.

3009
04:47:22,033 --> 04:47:25,012
And same with some of the other things, yes, correct.

3010
04:47:27,035 --> 04:47:32,003
And Elizabeth, you're gonna keep going and say the next section is really to pull

3011
04:47:32,003 --> 04:47:39,042
out. Discrete non-recurring items so that they don't sort of confuse what I'm, what,

3012
04:47:39,055 --> 04:47:43,038
what is viewed as sort of the year over year over year, you know, running of the

3013
04:47:43,038 --> 04:47:51,000
government. I'll let you say it, Harvey. I just, I just did. Perfect. And

3014
04:47:51,000 --> 04:47:56,045
then, um, again, so this, when you look at this beginning and ending fund balance,

3015
04:47:56,069 --> 04:48:02,025
this is the combined fund balance for all of those funds. So you can't just turn

3016
04:48:02,025 --> 04:48:08,012
around and tie it back to the general fund. And then lastly, the last section are.

3017
04:48:09,005 --> 04:48:15,094
Um, debt obligations outside of what's sitting in the debt service fund. So Elizabeth,

3018
04:48:16,003 --> 04:48:21,077
right, and then again the concept there is When we're feeling good about having a

3019
04:48:21,077 --> 04:48:27,097
certain fund balance, we should also have the context of saying, OK, we have a fund

3020
04:48:27,097 --> 04:48:33,088
balance of 35, but we also have a debt of 30. So let's, let's look at the totality

3021
04:48:33,088 --> 04:48:35,073
of the, of the picture. That's the idea.

3022
04:48:39,016 --> 04:48:46,081
And um oh sorry yeah go ahead yeah I think Elaine had a question. So on page 32 where

3023
04:48:46,081 --> 04:48:54,052
you had the capital summary, right, you had the 16 million. For 27,

3024
04:48:54,081 --> 04:49:00,068
so would, would, is all of that 16 million in the 23, it's split out by activity,

3025
04:49:00,081 --> 04:49:06,067
yes, but, but it wouldn't none of the gondola, basically like our operating is 7.2

3026
04:49:07,003 --> 04:49:12,087
and then we're talking about another 16.5 in capital. So if you're talking about

3027
04:49:12,089 --> 04:49:19,025
capital not in this schedule. So when you look at the capital project fund. You wouldn't

3028
04:49:19,025 --> 04:49:25,092
be looking at any, any capital projects in let's say the gondola fund or the um yes,

3029
04:49:26,002 --> 04:49:31,029
so it doesn't include um water and sewer fund. It doesn't include gond well gondola

3030
04:49:31,029 --> 04:49:35,077
nets out to zero because the funding source, but it would basically not include water

3031
04:49:35,077 --> 04:49:43,013
and sewer. Oh, OK. Because those are because they're self-contained funds, they're

3032
04:49:43,013 --> 04:49:48,053
enterprise funds, yeah, and there are enterprise funds, I guess this gets this might

3033
04:49:48,053 --> 04:49:54,001
be going another level, but we do have some enterprise funds that technically receive

3034
04:49:54,001 --> 04:49:58,049
funding from the general funds. So the parking service fund, while it's considered

3035
04:49:58,049 --> 04:50:02,073
an enterprise fund, it's not self-sustained, so it's included in this schedule.

3036
04:50:07,003 --> 04:50:15,003
Um, so one, request in the future on this, um. Could we just note on our

3037
04:50:15,044 --> 04:50:21,003
fund balance and on our various debt balances what the interest is, so how much we're

3038
04:50:21,048 --> 04:50:27,015
earning right now on the fund balance and how much we're paying and what the interest,

3039
04:50:27,004 --> 04:50:32,006
not the amount but the percentage interest rate that we're paying on these three

3040
04:50:32,006 --> 04:50:38,067
different, um, loans. Yes, I can definitely, um, pull that up. Give us a sense if

3041
04:50:38,067 --> 04:50:46,057
we're getting any arbitrage from that, um. And um arbitrage is not a great word to

3042
04:50:46,057 --> 04:50:48,004
use because there's tax in.

3043
04:50:51,005 --> 04:50:58,082
Um, but, uh, government surplus, yeah. We are just, we are earning just under

3044
04:50:58,082 --> 04:51:05,005
4%. It probably went up if I look at our daily, um, look right now, but some of this

3045
04:51:05,005 --> 04:51:10,002
debt is, is pretty low interest debt. I'll pull it up while you guys are chatting

3046
04:51:10,002 --> 04:51:14,002
about your direction. Oh, I, I don't need it right now. It's just in the future.

3047
04:51:14,011 --> 04:51:21,097
Yes, yeah. What, um, the finance committee manages. Oversees the investment of our

3048
04:51:22,071 --> 04:51:30,046
available funds. I, I actually over. It's in Bitcoin, Dan. What's that? It's in

3049
04:51:30,046 --> 04:51:38,032
Bitcoin. No worries. We have such a limited, you know, way to, um. Put

3050
04:51:38,044 --> 04:51:44,007
where we put our funds, so the majority of our funds right now are in more liquid

3051
04:51:44,007 --> 04:51:50,002
cash funds that are earning they're in local government investment pools and then

3052
04:51:50,002 --> 04:51:54,014
as the bond rates have gone up I've put a little bit in there to match some of our

3053
04:51:54,014 --> 04:52:01,092
um service costs so it's just it fluctuates but our interest revenue has. Um, grown

3054
04:52:01,092 --> 04:52:06,068
significantly since we started this new investment strategy. So our, our ending fund

3055
04:52:06,068 --> 04:52:14,019
balance is $33.7 million. Do we have $33 million sitting in these various bank accounts?

3056
04:52:15,002 --> 04:52:20,048
Well, it's, you know, yeah, so my, my question, so the question behind the question

3057
04:52:20,052 --> 04:52:27,045
is, should we not have some transparency or disclosure about the composition of

3058
04:52:27,076 --> 04:52:33,055
$33 million of our constituents' money. Um, and I'm not, I don't think there's anything

3059
04:52:33,055 --> 04:52:39,022
wrong, but like I'm on the Terri Foundation board and we have a full portfolio report.

3060
04:52:39,076 --> 04:52:42,071
Yeah, and I don't, I don't mind at all putting that in there, of course we disclose

3061
04:52:42,071 --> 04:52:47,035
that at the end of the year in our, um, financials and in our annual report, but

3062
04:52:47,035 --> 04:52:50,089
I would be happy to to put together an investment. We don't have a lot of latitude

3063
04:52:50,089 --> 04:52:57,011
to. Right, no, and that, and to be honest, that would be reassuring to see that we're

3064
04:52:57,011 --> 04:53:02,023
not, you're buying pork belly future options or something. I think it would give

3065
04:53:02,023 --> 04:53:07,039
our constituents some comfort and you know, I think it's, it's actually not even

3066
04:53:07,039 --> 04:53:14,013
treasuries. It's we give the money to a government run fund that. Invest a portfolio.

3067
04:53:14,023 --> 04:53:18,034
It's, it's like putting it into a money market account essentially, yeah, and we

3068
04:53:18,034 --> 04:53:23,004
do have some treasuries. I'm, I'm happy to say that we have burned through almost

3069
04:53:23,027 --> 04:53:28,009
all of the ones that we were holding when I came on board at 0.15%, so we're not

3070
04:53:28,009 --> 04:53:33,014
seeing that market adjustment to the loss, but yeah, I would be happy to put together

3071
04:53:33,014 --> 04:53:34,032
an investment schedule.

3072
04:53:39,052 --> 04:53:45,011
So the question is, so, um, so the takeaways from this, from this table here, yeah,

3073
04:53:45,026 --> 04:53:52,033
it's a Herbie chart. Herbie, what do we take away? Well, we, we take away that, you

3074
04:53:52,033 --> 04:53:57,043
know, we've, we've had some deficit years, we had Couple positive years and then

3075
04:53:57,043 --> 04:54:03,049
the, and we've had some deficit year last year and I'll call it close to break even

3076
04:54:03,049 --> 04:54:08,041
this year. Um, and so, you know, how do we, the, the big picture question is how

3077
04:54:08,041 --> 04:54:14,013
do we feel about that? I, do we think we're being proper stewards? I have a, I have

3078
04:54:14,013 --> 04:54:18,097
a philosophical thing that we should have, we should not have a deficit. And then

3079
04:54:18,097 --> 04:54:22,061
Scott will chime in and say, well, even if we're showing a deficit projected, it

3080
04:54:22,061 --> 04:54:28,089
won't turn out to be one. So, well, that's, that's one thing I would say, but I would

3081
04:54:28,089 --> 04:54:34,017
also, I would say some other things too. No, I would, I, I think on the plus side

3082
04:54:34,017 --> 04:54:40,041
there's that, but also, you know, we, we have, um, these enormous, we have these

3083
04:54:40,041 --> 04:54:47,097
enormous revenues, um, from development from the Four Seasons and, and, um. And so,

3084
04:54:48,032 --> 04:54:53,016
you know, at some point we should be spending that and it's going to produce what

3085
04:54:53,016 --> 04:55:00,031
looks like a deficit when actually, you know, we had some extraordinary monies in

3086
04:55:00,033 --> 04:55:05,012
and we would have some extraordinary monies out. So I just don't, I think if we,

3087
04:55:05,016 --> 04:55:10,047
if we followed the logic of this to its conclusion. You know, our fund balance would

3088
04:55:10,047 --> 04:55:14,006
keep growing because every time we got an extraordinary inflow, it would just get

3089
04:55:14,006 --> 04:55:19,095
added to the pile, but we would never want to show a deficit of of taking away from

3090
04:55:19,095 --> 04:55:20,064
that pile.

3091
04:55:23,068 --> 04:55:30,056
So when we earn grant income, do we recognize the full amount of the grant if it's

3092
04:55:30,056 --> 04:55:37,035
more than if it's multi-year in year one? No, you have to recognize it as you have

3093
04:55:37,035 --> 04:55:43,029
met the obligations of the grant. OK, so it's, it's matched. Revenues match with

3094
04:55:43,029 --> 04:55:48,019
expense because like on nonprofits, you have to recognize the full amount of the

3095
04:55:48,051 --> 04:55:54,001
grant and it makes the problem Scott's identifying even worse where you get a million

3096
04:55:54,001 --> 04:55:57,096
dollars grant from somebody and you spend it out over 5 years, you're gonna have

3097
04:55:57,096 --> 04:56:02,058
a great year one, but you're gonna have deficits in years 2 through 5 and that's

3098
04:56:02,058 --> 04:56:07,003
a good thing. Yeah, you'll see that in deferred revenue if we ever get it in advance.

3099
04:56:07,051 --> 04:56:12,075
But you'll also see projects, and this is, it gets tough because You know we have

3100
04:56:12,075 --> 04:56:18,047
some projects that may cover 2 years but we only are entitled to that grant money

3101
04:56:18,047 --> 04:56:23,035
when the project is completely finished so then you would show more expense in year

3102
04:56:23,035 --> 04:56:28,096
one and then all the revenue in year two so it just, um, you know, the grants can.

3103
04:56:30,017 --> 04:56:36,095
skew it a little bit. But for the most part, you know, we accrue what has been earned.

3104
04:56:38,059 --> 04:56:44,011
So I guess if I would add something to the Harvey schedule, you'll have to ask Harvey,

3105
04:56:44,059 --> 04:56:51,029
Harvey if that's allowed, but just I guess my kind of napkin math is that we're spending

3106
04:56:51,091 --> 04:56:59,067
about $19 million to operate, take out the capital, right? So. Are we staying

3107
04:56:59,093 --> 04:57:04,008
pretty flat in our operations, sort of to Scott's point, OK, well, we're maintaining

3108
04:57:04,008 --> 04:57:10,002
FTE count, but an FTE who makes $20 an hour is different from one who makes $50 an

3109
04:57:10,002 --> 04:57:14,042
hour. So even if we're keeping the counts similar, that doesn't mean we're keeping

3110
04:57:14,042 --> 04:57:20,051
the operating expenses similar, and I just sort of wonder. If we could see some of

3111
04:57:20,051 --> 04:57:27,051
this in terms of the capital spend versus how much creep do we have or not have an

3112
04:57:27,051 --> 04:57:31,094
operating spend and if we're looking at like the last year we spent this much and.

3113
04:57:32,055 --> 04:57:36,045
Then do we just sort of absorb it and then that becomes our new norm that's like,

3114
04:57:36,047 --> 04:57:41,046
well yeah, now we just spend that much every year that's sort of where I still have

3115
04:57:41,046 --> 04:57:45,009
a little bit of missing clarity. So I think you know that operating versus capital

3116
04:57:45,009 --> 04:57:51,001
is something that a lot of people are trying to wrap their hands around and you know

3117
04:57:51,001 --> 04:57:54,025
when we looked at the memo, a good example, and this doesn't go through all of these

3118
04:57:54,027 --> 04:57:58,095
funds, so I would need to go back and quant. Apply for you, but our operating expenditures

3119
04:57:58,095 --> 04:58:05,039
at the general fund level are growing at about 3.8% excluding some of those one time

3120
04:58:05,039 --> 04:58:10,099
items so that would say that they're growing, you know, in a at an inflationary rate

3121
04:58:11,024 --> 04:58:16,008
and they're still growing at a less rate than our operating say revenues are but

3122
04:58:16,008 --> 04:58:22,079
yes, um, let me think about how I can. Yeah, I, I, I would just say that the, the,

3123
04:58:22,009 --> 04:58:27,079
the theory behind this was to combine it only because the funds themselves and the

3124
04:58:27,079 --> 04:58:33,095
normal accounting does separate operating from capital, um, and so you'd be pulling

3125
04:58:33,095 --> 04:58:39,081
it out again. So, but maybe you're asking for a, a consolidation schedule like this,

3126
04:58:39,083 --> 04:58:46,027
but consolidating only the operating and consolidating only the capital. Yeah, I

3127
04:58:46,027 --> 04:58:46,087
think that's what you.

3128
04:58:49,056 --> 04:58:51,094
Which is way easier than the Harvey schedule.

3129
04:58:54,072 --> 04:58:59,011
Are the capital funds not kept in a separate bank account right now? Are the what?

3130
04:59:00,003 --> 04:59:05,064
Capital funds. No, we have no designated funding stream for capital. It's all general

3131
04:59:05,064 --> 04:59:10,097
tax dollars. So, and we use something that most governments use and we use pooled

3132
04:59:10,097 --> 04:59:17,073
cash. So we, we have, you know, um. Other than VCA has its own account just because

3133
04:59:17,073 --> 04:59:22,025
it makes it easier for us to take care of, but all of the other funds have this pooled

3134
04:59:22,025 --> 04:59:28,013
account and our software actually tracks what each fund's cash is. So at the end

3135
04:59:28,013 --> 04:59:32,000
of the year when you see I allocate out all the interest, I do it based on the average,

3136
04:59:32,018 --> 04:59:33,073
um, cash value.

3137
04:59:36,068 --> 04:59:42,047
I think another thing that really jumps out at me is that you know our revenues,

3138
04:59:42,056 --> 04:59:47,092
our inflows, when you take out the puts and takes, when you take out the extraordinary

3139
04:59:47,092 --> 04:59:54,026
monies, etc. you know, have. At best been flat, and when you adjust for inflation,

3140
04:59:54,063 --> 05:00:01,098
they've actually been, you know, down a few percent. Um, from 24 to

3141
05:00:01,098 --> 05:00:09,022
26, some of that was our own doing by putting in a 1.2 million of tax cuts, but it

3142
05:00:09,022 --> 05:00:15,006
is, um, it is interesting because, you know, of course the narrative which any homeowner

3143
05:00:15,006 --> 05:00:22,062
is experiencing is that their taxes have gone up a lot. Um, but Just for other reasons

3144
05:00:22,062 --> 05:00:27,094
of decline, you know, flat sales tax revenues, the tax cut we put in place, etc.

3145
05:00:28,039 --> 05:00:35,043
you know, our, our revenues have been actually slightly declining. Our our non-extraordinary

3146
05:00:35,043 --> 05:00:36,048
revenues.

3147
05:00:38,066 --> 05:00:46,017
And our development revenue was. A great thing to get. Uh, without that 11 million.

3148
05:00:47,017 --> 05:00:52,084
Our ending fun balance or fun balances would look a little more. But look at a little

3149
05:00:52,084 --> 05:00:58,052
bit more in line almost exactly where you saw 23 and 24, right, which then I go to

3150
05:00:58,052 --> 05:01:06,033
Scott's point and Tarvey's point is do we just bank that at some point. We use it

3151
05:01:06,033 --> 05:01:12,063
in a well, I think Scott's direction since we got this money was that we should really

3152
05:01:12,063 --> 05:01:16,023
keep an accounting of what we use to go against that and it should be to mitigate

3153
05:01:16,025 --> 05:01:21,024
the effects of the four seasons coming on board in the town. So one of those thoughts

3154
05:01:21,024 --> 05:01:25,099
is, you know, what we're putting into, um, development and affordable housing development

3155
05:01:25,099 --> 05:01:32,002
should be offset by the costs that they, um, you know, the con the contribution that

3156
05:01:32,002 --> 05:01:38,092
was made for affordable housing. Yeah, or repaving Mountain Village Boulevard after,

3157
05:01:39,018 --> 05:01:41,007
you know, 1000 heavy trucks drive over it.

3158
05:01:44,081 --> 05:01:50,032
And then the, the, the other thought process, Dan, is Yeah, we, we can bank that

3159
05:01:50,038 --> 05:01:56,001
10 million because we have a 90 million capital cost coming down the line. Yeah.

3160
05:01:57,001 --> 05:02:02,007
Yeah, and, and maybe more, you know, with the, with the wastewater plant. Before,

3161
05:02:02,016 --> 05:02:08,015
um Before we wrap things up, you know, we opened the meeting. Pete mentioned something

3162
05:02:08,033 --> 05:02:14,072
he didn't want to read the witness, and he mentioned 5 items, uh, that he had in

3163
05:02:14,072 --> 05:02:19,025
his head. I'd, I'd, I'd like to actually hear those if we can. He really only meant

3164
05:02:19,025 --> 05:02:25,048
the, the Big Billy's breezeway. Yeah, actually, you know what, I would say that I

3165
05:02:25,048 --> 05:02:29,048
would say, and if, I think I'm correct in the sense that you addressed your five

3166
05:02:29,048 --> 05:02:37,028
items as we went through the budget. Yeah, one was the water fund, one was the breezeway,

3167
05:02:37,078 --> 05:02:45,005
one was. My projections of taxes. Yeah. I mean, I,

3168
05:02:45,071 --> 05:02:50,001
I, I sent her two pages of questions, but you know it was a page and a line. It was

3169
05:02:50,015 --> 05:02:56,018
pretty light compared to your. Well, but, but the question that's, sorry, sorry,

3170
05:02:56,038 --> 05:03:00,015
Scott, but the question that's still on the table is, do we want to increase our

3171
05:03:00,031 --> 05:03:03,003
consolidated deficit by 12, not.

3172
05:03:05,061 --> 05:03:09,076
What are you, are you talking about, you mean, you mean with respect to continuing

3173
05:03:09,076 --> 05:03:16,052
the tax break, yes. Yeah, I think that that is the that is the question. And, and

3174
05:03:16,052 --> 05:03:24,025
I guess, um, I, I have, um, kind of gone. Both ways on it and we saw

3175
05:03:24,025 --> 05:03:31,017
the, the infrastructure committee saw some, you know, preliminary, um, very early

3176
05:03:31,017 --> 05:03:36,064
estimates of, you know, what a wastewater plant could cost and what that would do

3177
05:03:36,007 --> 05:03:42,076
to rates, um. If it were, you know, fully funded by debt and then you had to pay

3178
05:03:42,076 --> 05:03:48,024
the debt service and it was, you know, it was kind of shocking, and then that led

3179
05:03:48,024 --> 05:03:52,028
me, then led that led to a discussion, well, you know, we could, we could use some

3180
05:03:52,028 --> 05:03:57,094
of our money to buy down the cost of that and reduce the impact on our consumers,

3181
05:03:57,096 --> 05:04:03,028
and I think we're pro when we, when we see, when we all see the, the costs, we're

3182
05:04:03,028 --> 05:04:08,045
probably gonna want to do that. And that makes me, I think Tucker put it best, like

3183
05:04:08,068 --> 05:04:13,059
why would we cut taxes so then we turn it around and put it back in people's water

3184
05:04:13,059 --> 05:04:14,057
and sewer bills.

3185
05:04:20,067 --> 05:04:25,006
So I guess, I guess where I am now is I'm, I'm leaning against either not continuing

3186
05:04:25,006 --> 05:04:30,092
it or continuing it in some, you know, small way so that we're not, you know, putting

3187
05:04:30,092 --> 05:04:33,069
people over a cliff and, and phasing it out.

3188
05:04:36,066 --> 05:04:38,039
The new guy question, what's the it?

3189
05:04:40,047 --> 05:04:48,018
Uh, last year we voted to temporarily reduce the mill levy, um, and it ended up saving

3190
05:04:48,018 --> 05:04:55,005
our taxpayers $1.2 million and the question is, do we, do we continue that at, at,

3191
05:04:55,059 --> 05:05:00,082
at the same reduction, or do we continue it at some lower rate, or do we, do we say,

3192
05:05:00,095 --> 05:05:05,094
you know, we now that we're looking at all these capex items coming down the pike

3193
05:05:05,094 --> 05:05:11,042
and we see. The analysis from Harvey that shows that we're actually, you know, have

3194
05:05:11,042 --> 05:05:17,082
a deficit. Um, do we, do we not continue with that, and we picked a number and the

3195
05:05:17,082 --> 05:05:22,074
question, I don't know what that number is, but it was, it was, well, it wasn't done

3196
05:05:22,074 --> 05:05:27,059
by a number to be a million dollars, right? Well, it was the, the final direction

3197
05:05:27,063 --> 05:05:33,039
was to limit the tax increase to the general taxpayer of no more than 10% over the

3198
05:05:33,039 --> 05:05:40,026
prior year. So we backed into what that number was with our final valuation in December.

3199
05:05:43,039 --> 05:05:48,078
I guess so we could go ahead. I mean, uh, you know, when I look at this budget, I

3200
05:05:48,078 --> 05:05:53,004
think it's You know, I think it's a responsible budget. You know, our revenues are

3201
05:05:53,004 --> 05:06:00,039
growing. Uh, our expenses are growing less and we're investing capital in strategic

3202
05:06:00,053 --> 05:06:07,082
initiatives like housing and Planning for a wastewater plant, uh, fire mitigation,

3203
05:06:08,003 --> 05:06:14,094
you know, as hopefully our taxpayers realize that we're making these strategic investments

3204
05:06:14,094 --> 05:06:22,091
for the future. Running a, a deficit doesn't really bother me with a 34 or. $33

3205
05:06:22,091 --> 05:06:29,051
million dollar reserve, um, particularly when some years we have surpluses and some

3206
05:06:29,051 --> 05:06:37,009
years we have deficits. Um I like Being able to

3207
05:06:37,005 --> 05:06:44,021
tell constituents that we, we have this temporary mill levy. Decrease because we're

3208
05:06:44,021 --> 05:06:49,089
the one we're the only ones doing it. It's showing fiscal responsibility in a time

3209
05:06:49,089 --> 05:06:56,046
when There seems to be very little fiscal responsibility in the rest of the community

3210
05:06:57,008 --> 05:07:04,007
because taxes are up from 17.5 million for three taxing entities up to 40 million.

3211
05:07:06,007 --> 05:07:12,065
And I think people are really getting strained by property tax increases, particularly

3212
05:07:12,086 --> 05:07:20,063
those in the workforce who own homes or are renting. Apartments because the property

3213
05:07:20,063 --> 05:07:28,039
tax increases are passed through. Um, and maybe it's just optics, but I think it's

3214
05:07:28,039 --> 05:07:35,034
important. I just wanna make one clarifying comment as we talk about um the regional

3215
05:07:36,002 --> 05:07:40,037
taxing authorities is we are one of the very few taxing authorities that doesn't

3216
05:07:40,037 --> 05:07:48,008
have a limit imposed on us either by our charter or by a statute. Statuary statutory

3217
05:07:49,025 --> 05:07:55,001
requirement so I do want to make that piece is that our taxes we could have gone

3218
05:07:55,001 --> 05:07:59,065
way up in excess of limits that some other of these taxing authorities would have

3219
05:07:59,065 --> 05:08:02,004
placed on them by external sources.

3220
05:08:04,027 --> 05:08:10,022
So we don't have the cap. Road and bridge and the mental health fund voted, got on

3221
05:08:10,022 --> 05:08:15,009
the ballot last year to have their cap removed. The school is asking to have its

3222
05:08:15,058 --> 05:08:23,008
cap removed in this upcoming election, um. The hospital district did not ask voters

3223
05:08:23,008 --> 05:08:28,053
to change the cap. I think fire also had their cap removed. Did they get that removed?

3224
05:08:28,065 --> 05:08:35,088
OK. And so I. Agree with you on the sentiment behind it.

3225
05:08:36,099 --> 05:08:41,055
I also feel like our portion of it is such a small drop in the bucket when you kind

3226
05:08:41,055 --> 05:08:47,022
of add up all of this and it's like, how do we get all of these taxing districts

3227
05:08:47,032 --> 05:08:54,004
in a room to have a conversation about this as a bigger problem. And we have like

3228
05:08:54,004 --> 05:09:01,082
the multiple layer of like, so the valuation goes up. The amount you can take

3229
05:09:01,082 --> 05:09:07,066
goes up whether it's capped or not, right? So I, there's a couple of different levers

3230
05:09:07,066 --> 05:09:13,069
to pull. I'm just not really feeling confident that our, you know, million dollars

3231
05:09:13,071 --> 05:09:17,058
is making that big of an impact, but I totally agree with you on the sentiment and

3232
05:09:17,058 --> 05:09:24,036
it, and the growing problem. Yeah, I, I would pile on to that. I. We had a sidebar

3233
05:09:24,036 --> 05:09:30,043
discussion over lunch about just the tax fatigue going on in our community. And it

3234
05:09:30,043 --> 05:09:35,079
seems like every ballot over the last how many years there was a tax increase and

3235
05:09:35,079 --> 05:09:41,075
that hurts not only our residents but through triple net leases and 4X, you know,

3236
05:09:41,084 --> 05:09:46,043
um, property tax rate on commercial businesses, it's flowing right through to our

3237
05:09:46,043 --> 05:09:51,096
small businesses who employ our locals and one of the coolest things about our communities

3238
05:09:52,002 --> 05:09:57,003
is we have a lot of our businesses owned by locals, not big uptown corporate types.

3239
05:09:57,086 --> 05:10:03,069
So, is a million dollars gonna move the dial a whole bunch? I don't think so. Um,

3240
05:10:03,086 --> 05:10:08,064
but I love the, the message it sends to our community, you know, we hear you. We

3241
05:10:08,064 --> 05:10:14,011
know these the cumulative impact of these taxes are having a bite. We did, we did

3242
05:10:14,013 --> 05:10:18,088
something. Did we do enough? I don't know, but did we do nothing? No. So I would

3243
05:10:18,088 --> 05:10:23,095
lean towards and, and these valuations come out about every 2 years on property taxes.

3244
05:10:24,021 --> 05:10:28,049
And so to me I, I, I kind of think of it in 2 year bites, and this would be year

3245
05:10:28,057 --> 05:10:35,044
2. Of us doing this, I lean towards it, um, but I understand the arguments against.

3246
05:10:37,023 --> 05:10:41,001
I guess there's a, you know, there, it's not a binary thing, right? We could, we

3247
05:10:41,001 --> 05:10:46,002
could say, you know, last year we, we limited it to 10%, this year we'll limit it

3248
05:10:46,002 --> 05:10:51,053
to 5%, and then next year we'll see what the, what the tax assessor comes back with.

3249
05:10:53,038 --> 05:10:57,057
Did we get any feedback on the fact that we did limit it last year? I think many

3250
05:10:57,057 --> 05:11:02,037
of us wondered why we didn't get any feedback from our, from our property tax. I

3251
05:11:02,037 --> 05:11:03,038
heard from two people.

3252
05:11:06,016 --> 05:11:10,071
We did, we did receive feedback. I think, wasn't there even an article on, in the,

3253
05:11:10,078 --> 05:11:15,079
in the Times about it? Um, I received feedback. People actually were very thankful

3254
05:11:15,079 --> 05:11:16,003
about it.

3255
05:11:18,085 --> 05:11:22,094
It, it goes to the point of it, if, if nobody noticed then, then what are we doing?

3256
05:11:23,001 --> 05:11:24,058
But that's what I was trying to understand.

3257
05:11:26,096 --> 05:11:34,046
Well, I, I have had that reflection. Yeah, if a tree falls in the woods, um, I, uh,

3258
05:11:34,008 --> 05:11:40,099
I think we should be touting it as responsible government that listens and, uh, get

3259
05:11:40,099 --> 05:11:45,043
it in the paper, get it on the radio. I tell everybody who cares to listen about

3260
05:11:45,043 --> 05:11:52,048
it, um. And to your point, Scott, you know, we could pick a number. I like the notion

3261
05:11:52,055 --> 05:11:56,093
of 2-year evaluation window, kind of trying to do something for 2 years. It doesn't

3262
05:11:56,093 --> 05:12:01,091
have to be the same number, but And that's why you have reserves, you know, in my

3263
05:12:01,091 --> 05:12:08,037
view is for a rainy day, um, and yeah, it's kind of raining out there. But eventually,

3264
05:12:08,047 --> 05:12:13,006
we're gonna have to pay big money for this, you know, these infrastructure projects,

3265
05:12:13,011 --> 05:12:18,006
but the wastewater, so it's kind of like, Are we boiling the frog slowly or are we

3266
05:12:18,006 --> 05:12:23,013
throwing it into hot water a few years down the road cause we're pushing off. Yeah,

3267
05:12:23,022 --> 05:12:29,085
but I, I personally like user fees more than just taxes that go into a general bucket.

3268
05:12:30,007 --> 05:12:36,082
So if we increase water rates. Use less water if you can't handle the rate or we

3269
05:12:36,082 --> 05:12:42,083
increase sewer rates. I like user fees more than just generic taxes that just go

3270
05:12:42,083 --> 05:12:47,047
into a big bucket, but that's just my own philosophy. But then, then the point of

3271
05:12:47,047 --> 05:12:51,066
the consolidated schedule was to put the debt on there too. So when we're looking

3272
05:12:51,068 --> 05:12:58,073
at 34 million of reserves, let's not forget the 30 million of debt. Which has to

3273
05:12:58,073 --> 05:13:00,063
get repaid, which has to get repaid.

3274
05:13:03,032 --> 05:13:09,095
But even the debt level for the municipality of our size, I, I don't get too worried

3275
05:13:09,095 --> 05:13:14,078
about $30 million. I mean, if you look at Telluride's debt level, and you might get

3276
05:13:14,078 --> 05:13:16,022
a little more concerned, but

3277
05:13:19,025 --> 05:13:23,009
Yeah, I, I don't know what the target debt level should be for us, Harvey. Unlike

3278
05:13:23,009 --> 05:13:29,092
Pete, I, I don't have a great heartburn over 33.7, but I'd rather it be less. But

3279
05:13:29,092 --> 05:13:32,088
I'm happy it's not 3x our revenue.

3280
05:13:37,006 --> 05:13:42,026
Well, maybe we should look at kind of what Scott's proposal was and that's do a 5%

3281
05:13:42,065 --> 05:13:48,015
um back and then we can satisfy Harvey too and have a balanced budget with all the

3282
05:13:48,015 --> 05:13:51,029
other savings that Scott came up with um.

3283
05:13:56,072 --> 05:14:01,099
I can definitely incorporate a 5% year over year and we can see what that looks like.

3284
05:14:03,005 --> 05:14:08,027
Yeah, I, I could support that and I think in the follow-on messages, is Eileen's

3285
05:14:08,027 --> 05:14:12,037
point, we've got some big projects coming down the pike and so don't plan on this

3286
05:14:12,037 --> 05:14:16,093
forever. We could do it now in this little window, but we're gonna have a lot more

3287
05:14:16,093 --> 05:14:21,076
information on these big projects over the next year or 3. Dan, I lost you there.

3288
05:14:23,017 --> 05:14:26,084
You lost me? On, on my words or on my microphone?

3289
05:14:29,052 --> 05:14:33,071
And I think the one, you know, just, just remember though when we get these new assessments

3290
05:14:33,071 --> 05:14:41,048
and in Um, for next year for collection in 2028, it's gonna appear to be an even

3291
05:14:41,048 --> 05:14:47,096
bigger increase for taxpayers, um, at that point or, or decrease.

3292
05:14:50,061 --> 05:14:54,064
Um, we know that I don't understand. We don't have what I'm saying though is you're

3293
05:14:54,064 --> 05:15:01,072
gonna have assessment potentially if you follow the trend, um, as the valuations

3294
05:15:01,072 --> 05:15:07,046
will increase potentially and so taxpayers if you don't have that. Levy credit in

3295
05:15:07,046 --> 05:15:12,025
that year we'll see a much bigger jump than they would have, you know, if you that's

3296
05:15:12,077 --> 05:15:17,056
that's the, that's the problem of trying to, you know, trying to suppress it. Yeah,

3297
05:15:17,075 --> 05:15:24,066
that's what I was I mean they're they're, yeah, yeah, but. But I, I, I think we deal

3298
05:15:24,066 --> 05:15:30,085
with that in our 28 budget, um, because there is a scenario where the valuations

3299
05:15:30,085 --> 05:15:34,093
don't go up. Sir, I think there is.

3300
05:15:37,003 --> 05:15:44,067
Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, I mean, we could be. It could be getting there. Well then it's

3301
05:15:44,067 --> 05:15:50,031
kind of like heads you lose tails you lose, right? Or your valuation went down or

3302
05:15:50,031 --> 05:15:58,001
your valuation went up and your taxes go up even further. So, um, I guess

3303
05:15:58,001 --> 05:16:04,081
consensus. Is that I go back and recalculate this to be a 5% increase year over year

3304
05:16:05,003 --> 05:16:10,014
excluding new construction. So that's a little less than $400,000. Well, but I have

3305
05:16:10,014 --> 05:16:15,045
to go in and do the You know, take out the new construction piece because there's

3306
05:16:15,045 --> 05:16:20,016
a piece of that that will be taxed this year that you wouldn't include as the 5%

3307
05:16:20,018 --> 05:16:26,069
increase. Well, if it was 1.2 last year, why wouldn't it be 600 this year? Well,

3308
05:16:26,094 --> 05:16:31,089
what I'm saying though is based on these new valuations you have an increase in property

3309
05:16:31,089 --> 05:16:38,093
tax revenue because you have new construction in general, so you would, yeah, new

3310
05:16:38,093 --> 05:16:43,039
houses built, so you definitely wouldn't want to say you could only increase 5% because

3311
05:16:43,039 --> 05:16:50,079
then you would negate all of the new construction out of there. Right. 5% on existing

3312
05:16:51,001 --> 05:16:54,076
existing properties, that's what you're trying to say, right? Yes, 5% on existing.

3313
05:16:56,004 --> 05:17:03,000
Well, not existing, but You know, actually, I, I, I think I did it off of the 2006

3314
05:17:03,000 --> 05:17:10,054
forecast, so that probably pardon me, 26 to 26, yeah, so it's probably pretty close

3315
05:17:10,085 --> 05:17:15,003
for so, but you, but what I wanna say is you're still not, you, you may, you'll see

3316
05:17:15,003 --> 05:17:19,096
that credit line, but the tax rate will include, I mean, the taxes above maybe larger

3317
05:17:19,096 --> 05:17:24,056
because you have new construction valuation. We like that.

3318
05:17:27,069 --> 05:17:28,016
OK.

3319
05:17:30,089 --> 05:17:31,097
Do we have anything else?

3320
05:17:35,001 --> 05:17:38,024
I think so. It was direction, right? Yes.

3321
05:17:41,024 --> 05:17:42,081
There's nothing else on the agenda.

3322
05:17:45,058 --> 05:17:46,028
All right.

3323
05:17:48,089 --> 05:17:53,041
Elizabeth, thank you very much for all your work. I just thank the whole team. This

3324
05:17:53,041 --> 05:17:59,085
is a big effort and everybody pulls their weight an hour early. How about that? I'm

3325
05:17:59,085 --> 05:18:05,028
going to make that bus. Yes, the bulls and bus, the bulls and bus. All right, we

3326
05:18:05,028 --> 05:18:12,001
get a motion. I move to adjourn. 2nd. All those in favor? Aye aye aye aye.

3327
05:18:13,001 --> 05:18:17,029
Great. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Bye. Bye-bye.

3328
05:18:21,006 --> 05:18:22,031
We did it.