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I will call to order the public hearing
of the council of the municipality of

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Murray'sville concerning proposed
ordinance number one11-26.

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The purpose of tonight's hearing is to
receive uh information and public

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comment concerning proposed amendments
to chapter 220 of the Murray'sville code

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relating to data centers, data center
accessory uses, solar energy facilities,

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forestry, apiaries, zoning hearing board
membership, and related zoning

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provisions.
Notice of the public hearing was

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advertised in accordance with
Pennsylvania Municipalities Planning

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Code and the requirements of the
Municipality of Murrayville. The

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proposed ordinance has previously been
reviewed by the Murrayville Planning

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Commission and the West Morland County
Department of Planning and Development.

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Copies of the proposed ordinance have
been made available for public

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inspection.
This evening, council will receive a

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brief presentation regarding the
proposed ordinance and then receive

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public comment. Council is not
considering final enactment of the

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ordinance during this public hearing.
The ordinance is also listed separately

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on tonight's regular meeting agenda for
discussion and possible authorization to

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advertise. I will now ask the chief
administrator, Michael Nesico, to

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provide a brief overview of the proposed
ordinance and its review history. Mike.

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» Uh yes, thank you. And I have here with
me, uh Mike Wnner, our planning director

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as well, who's uh worked with the
planning commission uh on this

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ordinance. So, uh we'll be here to try
to help assist and answer any questions

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as we move forward. Um this ordinance uh
ordinance uh 111 uh 1 1,11-26

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uh is intended primarily to address uh
and add specific zoning standards uh for

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two uses that are not currently uh
comprehensively addressed in our zoning

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ordinance. That's data centers and solar
energy facilities. Uh, additionally

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within this uh, zoning ordinance um, is
uh, an attempt to address several

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smaller updates including forestry uh,
apiaries uh, some of the land use tables

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and definitions uh, and then also the
zoning hearing board membership

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requirements that are listed in our uh,
zoning ordinance. Um, this uh zoning

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ordinance draft had has gone through a
review process and I'll kind of go

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through that now for purposes of the
public hearing. Uh, it was reviewed by

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the environmental or I'm sorry the um,
[clears throat] yeah, the environmental

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advisory committee uh, of the
municipality and they provided comments

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back in April. Uh it went to the
planning commission for a public hearing

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process which began on May 12th uh and
continued with various revisions um uh

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throughout the uh the course of the
spring and into the summer. On July

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14th, the planning commission at their
uh public meeting recommended to forward

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this ordinance on to council. Um the
ordinance was then sent to West Morland

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County Planning for their review which
they did provide on July 21st and

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ultimately that led us to uh tonight's
public hearing um on this topic. Um

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there are uh some major substantive
provisions that I'll go through um

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relating to this ordinance. Some of this
was provided to council um in in the

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briefing that that I sent out uh to you
uh kind of uh in advance of this this

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hearing. Um the main changes that are
proposed in this ordinance are uh first

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and probably most importantly for the
majority of this room data centers and

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the language surrounding data centers.
Um the ordinance will create some

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specific definitions and development
standards for data centers and their

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related accessory uses. A data center uh
under this ordinance will be permitted

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only as a conditional use in the B
business district, meaning that each

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proposal would require review and
approval from council if a data center

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were to um be proposed in the community.
The standards include maximum building

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height uh of 60 ft, a 200t setback from
residential zoning districts, uh

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residential uses in the MU district, and
other identified sensitive uh areas of

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the community. uh a 150 foot setback
from public road rights of way and a

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minimum 50 foot landscaping buffer uh
relative to any data center proposal. Uh

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the proposed regulations also address
screening and fencing, noise and

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lighting, water and sewer capacity,
cooling systems, uh electrical demand,

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underground utility lines, uh emergency
response planning, battery storage,

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parking, uh future expansion and
decommissioning of a data center. Uh and

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any new data center would generally be
required to use uh what is called a

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closed loop cooling system. and the
applicant would be required to document

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any anticipated water or electrical
demands um as they apply to the uh to a

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proposal. A de decommissioning plan also
uh including financial security equal to

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110% of the de decommissioning cost
would also be required. So that is the

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general rundown of the one main
component of this ordinance. Uh the

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second is solar facilities. Uh, this
ordinance would allow for largescale

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solar facilities as a conditional use in
the B business district and in the RR

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and R1 residential districts with a
minimum parcel size of 10 acres in the

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residential districts. The proposed
standards address again uh similar to

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the data centers fencing, safety
signage, glare, storm water management,

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construction, traffic, emergency
response, utility connections, noise,

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landscaping and screening. Uh large
scale solar projects would also be

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subject to a detailed abandonment and
decommissioning requirements as well. Uh

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financial security again similar to data
centers would be required.

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And then the ordinance also creates uh a
separate and less intensive process for

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solar systems that are considered uh
residential or small commercial systems.

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Uh those systems will be allowed
throughout Murray'sville subject to

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applicable construction electrical and
mechanical permits. Uh normal zoning

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setbacks, height limitations, uh and
utility interconnection requirements. uh

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net metering of excess uh electricity
would be permitted without converting

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the installation into a large-scale
solar facility. So those are the two

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primary uh items that we are addressing
through this ordinance uh that are not

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currently contemplated under our
existing zoning uh our zoning ordinance.

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Uh other items that are to be addressed
primary items are honeybee apiaries. Uh

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there would be some new standards there
which would specifically regulate

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residential beekeeping uh address
provisions uh regarding state

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registration, hive density setbacks, uh
rear yard placement, things like that.

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Uh this is something that came to us uh
previously because of some concerns with

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the existing language that does exist
for honeybee apiaries um and the way

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that they are categorized uh in our
ordinance. Uh they would be uh in the RR

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and R1 districts. they remain subject to
the applicable agricultural regulations.

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Um but it removes um honeybees from the
general livestock def definition that

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created some constraints that we'd heard
about uh in previous meetings uh from

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folks that that do uh honeybee uh that
do keeping honey beekeeping I guess it

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would be. Um, additionally, uh, to a
lesser extent, the ordinance adds or

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revises definitions and land use tables
for forestry, solar facilities. Um, and

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then it also proposes changing the
zoning hearing board language from five

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members serving four-year terms to three
members serving three-year terms. Our

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board is currently made up of three
members at this time. So uh that uh that

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board would uh remain intact as it is
but the language would be updated to

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reflect current membership. Um some of
the main issues that arose during the

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review process uh include the 200 ft uh
setback for data centers uh and the

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county's letter uh recommending uh maybe
a different uh setback buffer. Uh

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screening and buffering were also topics
that came about during the planning

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commission meetings and public hearings.
water and cooling requirements, uh the

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decommissioning process, um minimum lot
sizes for data centers, uh largecale

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solar locations and minimum acreage and
treatment of residential solar separate

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from commercial facilities. So those
items that I just listed again are all

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items that came about through the review
process. They were not originally part

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of the original draft or some of the
template drafts that we were working

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with and looking at other communities,
but those were part of the public uh

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hearing and review process through
planning that they did accommodate uh

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some of those concerns that were brought
forth uh to the planning commission. Um

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and so again, this is only intended to
be an overview. Of course, this is a

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very thorough ordinance. uh copies were
available here at the municipality and

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they can still be obtained here and and
viewed online. It's a 21page document,

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so that's about as good of a summary as
I can provide. Um

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staff is certainly available to answer
questions. Uh and council can certainly

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um consider any additional uh revisions
following tonight's public hearing.

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Again, I I believe uh council president
had stated, but the item is listed as a

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discussion topic on the agenda. So, for
purposes of the public hearing, uh in

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just a moment, we can turn it over to
the public to be able to present their

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comments uh or feedback on the uh the
ordinance itself or any specific topic

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within the ordinance. And then um but
any deliberation or kind of um deeper

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dives into the topics in the ordinance
would probably best be saved for the

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actual uh discussion workshop item that
we have listed on our agenda this

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evening. And then uh should council wish
it is also listed as an agenda item for

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advertisement. Uh again that would be
provided that there are no concerns or

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any potential changes or amendments to
the language as it exists. there is a

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very good chance that there will be
something that changes um or there will

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be feedback that we want to consider.
So, it is um on the agenda for council

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if they wish to consider advertisement.
Uh but that item can certainly be tabled

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if any questions or concerns arise that
um you don't wish to advertise this

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evening. Uh and so I would say at that
point um I may turn it back over to the

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council president if there's any
questions for for staff. Otherwise, um

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we could probably take public comment at
this time.

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» Any questions from Mike from councel?
Okay. Uh at this time, we'll receive

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public comment concerning the proposed
ordinance number 1111-26.

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When you come to the microphone, please
state your name and address for the

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record. Please direct your comments to
council and limit your remarks to the

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subject of the proposed ordinance. Each
speaker will be provided three minutes.

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Written comments may also be submitted
to the municipality for inclusion with

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hearing materials. I ask the speakers to
avoid repeating comments already made

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where possible. Council may ask
questions for clarification, but this

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portion of the hearing is primarily
intended to receive public comment. So,

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at this time, I'll open it up for public
comment. And um so anyone on the list

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here, this is just specific to this
ordinance. If you are trying to speak in

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public comment on anything else, there's
another sheet up there and we will be

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having a public comment during the
regular meeting. Uh at this time, I have

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Thomas Pike. If you want to step
forward, please

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spell your name. Thomas, [clears throat]
excuse me, Thomas Pike E

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4703 Stewart Court in Murray'sville.
Been there 40 years.

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I also have 40 years experience in
software and hardware.

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Um, [clears throat]
and I'd like to point out a few things.

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Um, first over the last 25 years, MACH
has had five voluntary cut back requests

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water by 10% and one mandatory cut back.
I'd like to see the ordinance that

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you're proposing specify that in times
of voluntary and mandatory water

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restrictive use, the data center should
be obliged to cut back as well.

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Um, you [clears throat] have a
request in your

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ordinance
that the estimated usage of utilities be

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done and the question I have is what if
the impact on electrical rates estimate

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is wrong that they give you to make your
decisions. We have no way of verifying

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that
uh after it's built. So I believe there

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needs to be some sort of verification in
your ordinance. Verify that they gave us

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correct data.
And the same with the water estimates.

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I'll use Ronald Reagan here. Trust but
verify please

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that they give us the correct data and
that we can operate on it because the

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consequence is that the rateayers are
just going to be stuck with it. They

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give us bad data.

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And I would like the ordinance to
specifically state the cost of any

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infrastructure upgrades for water,
electric, and roads be the

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responsibility of the data center.
Just a few other tidbits. For a data

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center this small, you can expect around
20 to 25 jobs,

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not
in excess of that.

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I would also like to point out that
there are various polls done on whether

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people want
data centers in their um in their

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municipality. The CBS poll has 20%
approved, 50% against. Gallup poll 27%

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approved, 71% against. Fox News 30%
approved, 70% oppose. So, if we're

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looking forward to having more people
move in, like you haven't something on

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the docket for some development in White
Valley, if you're looking for people to

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move in, you do not want a data center
because that that will push people away.

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» Thank you very much.
>> Thank you, sir.

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» All right. Uh, next we have David
Mccardi. We could step forward.

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And for everyone commenting, um, so I
don't interrupt you, I'll just raise

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I'll just raise my hand like this when
you get under 30 seconds just so you

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know that you that we're reaching close
to the time frame. Go ahead, sir. Thank

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you.
>> Okay. Dave McCarti, 4533 Harrison City

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Road. [clears throat]
your last name.

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» Marti, MC, Capital C A R T Y, 2533
Harrison City Road. Okay. Um, my

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concerns are are any projects proposed
right now? Are they in the works or

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» No, not Mike, I'll let you answer, but
no, not right now. This is just Yeah,

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just updating our ordinance.
>> How's how's this going to benefit us?

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» Mike, would you
>> uh one, no projects are currently

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proposed. How it will benefit us is by
providing regulations for data centers.

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Without having regulations, a data
center could potentially be uh a

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proposal could be submitted for
essentially anywhere in the community

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and without having proper guide rails
and restrictions in place. Um we would

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be subject to allowing that type of use
and and and essentially the fallout from

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not having uh any guidance in place. So
this is kind of being done preemptively

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because we have to allow for the use um
within the community.

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» I guess my question was better how will
the de data centers benefit us? That's

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my that's my main concern. Uh and I I
just see more harm than good. I mean I'm

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I'm worried about the rates for power
for water uh pollution noise thermal

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vibration
uh light. So that's my concerns there.

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and it's got a nice little area and I
don't want to make it worse. It's I'm

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I'm 69. I'm retired. I don't want to I
want to enjoy my life. I I want to make

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things better, not worse.
>> That's pretty much it. That's

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» Thank you, sir.
>> Thank you.

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[snorts]

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Next we have I think it's Donna Calvin.

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» Hi. Um Alana Cole.
>> Oh, okay. Sorry, it's hard to read on

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here. [laughter]
>> Yes. Uh Kulvin is C O L V as in Victor I

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N at 22000 Boxc Cartown Road in
Murrayville.

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Um, I work with energy. I work with
systems. I work out of Penn State and we

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do a lot of energy efficiency projects.
And so things that I have seen or things

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that I've heard about in presentation
form, I just wanted to bring up um to

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say if the CH or is the data centers
that we may have an opportunity to host,

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will they have to consider CHP combine
heat and power so that they are in

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charge of their own electricity?
particularly if they are in need if we

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go out of power are they going to pull
on the grid first before the residents

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get the power back or can they maintain
their own power grid

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» do you know hand off hand
>> I can try to answer that for you

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» that's fine again just just trying to um
bring up some some areas um one I know

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it's been reiterated and I know uh you
mentioned to not uh echo um same

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suggestions but what I wanted to
elaborate rate on was uh if you look at

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the pico rates out in the Philly area um
the rates have gone from 10 20% as of

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last year and a lot of that isn't
because a data center moved in it's

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because a data center might move in and
so those rates are increasing without

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the data center even being present um a
lot of that is the PUC and PICO

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themselves and that is not what you guys
have charge of but um at the suggestion

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of the one gentleman who said hey
provide an average or provide a um

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follow through to see what is happening
in the area that area um the electricity

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needs to be forecasted as well because
in just less than a year going up 20%

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would have never been on anybody's
sheet. So we really need to reflect on

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Pennsylvania rate tra uh rates.
Pennsylvania is very unique in the way

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that we do our rates. We don't have
rates like uh California or Missouri or

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any of the other states. So making sure
that we are getting uh proper

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information from PA in that in that type
of reflection. Um my adrenaline's going.

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00:20:24,864 --> 00:20:33,039
[snorts] Let me see here.
For the solar projects, again, just

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00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:37,679
comments. Um I live in an RNR with my
husband and we definitely enjoy um

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having that property. I know on Boxcar
Town Road, we were told that the

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properties couldn't be sold in less than
5 acres at the time. So, um, in some

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00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:49,120
areas of Murray'sville, there's a lot
of, uh, pride in the history that comes

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00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:53,440
with that land. If solar is going to get
put on there, if it really can't be used

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for another purpose, some of it's hilly,
some of it's rocky, and, you know, it's

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00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:01,200
good for goats, maybe solar does make
sense in those spaces. But, um, when

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you're receiving in bids or a person is
receiving in bids, um, there definitely

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00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:11,520
needs to be some education on what is a
good or an ugly project. um a lot of the

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00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:14,480
fast companies that are not necessarily
Pennsylvania companies, those national

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companies, they are not checking to see
if those projects are to code and they

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will install asis and then that client
person may not be able to attach to the

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grid via interconnection. There's a lot
of nuance there and a lot of um traps

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that can happen to residents and to
companies. So definitely uh just making

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sure there's certain types of provisions
or um what it is that you would want to

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00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:41,200
have that can be trapped so someone
doesn't come in and just try to take

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00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:48,480
someone's money whether it's um our
community money or um resident money.

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And
from the water standpoint also on boxc

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00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:58,320
car but also school road south we um we
use a lot of sistns. So the the rain

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00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:03,440
water is what we collect and it's
purified. We we're all good there. But I

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00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:07,919
don't want um any controls on whether or
not I can collect the rain water because

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00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:12,320
the loop system they need to have intake
of water. Um the residents, we're not

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00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:16,080
consuming that much water in this local
area, but I would like to have a

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00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:20,159
restriction put on us when we can't uh
drink the ground water in our area and I

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00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,679
don't have access to public water and so
others also don't have that access or

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it's not affordable to become
accessible. Uh that's just something

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also I want to keep in mind that we have
a variety of residents using the water

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and those were the major points that I
had.

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00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,360
» Thank you so much for your comments.

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00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:45,760
» Uh the next uh our next person is it's
it's signed but it's kind of written

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00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:51,440
over. Um I believe it's John possibly.
It's 3497 North Hills.

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00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,240
» Sorry sir, it's hard I couldn't read it
on here.

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00:22:51,840 --> 00:23:00,400
» Writing was a little sloppy there too.
John Patterson, 3497

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00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:05,280
North Hills Road. I can only ditto most
of what was said here, especially by the

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00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:11,280
first gentleman. Uh, but I did have a
question. Uh, has the board uh

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considered
what body of water primarily would be

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used by a data center if they moved to
the Murrayville Export or Washington

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Township area?
Mike,

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00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:32,480
» again, I don't know that I have that
specific answer, but um any data center

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uh
uh request would have to go through a

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formal approval process and receive
approval from the local utilities. In

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00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:47,200
this case, MAWC would have to, I guess,
um make that determination where they

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00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:53,120
would be pulling from uh whether they
can supply adequate resources, water.

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00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,640
Would it be obvious that they would want
to go to the Beaver RE reservoir?

285
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,760
» That would make the most sense, but
again, I can't speak to that uh

286
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:06,159
specifically.
>> I would think that would not be a good

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00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:14,120
thing if they did. Um, and would this
affect water tables down below for

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people who have wellwater?

289
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,279
» Mike,
>> again, I don't know that answer off. I

290
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:23,360
think that would be probably case
specific because again that's not um

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00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,679
that would that would depend on the site
development and the proposal that we

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00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:31,520
would potentially receive for a specific
data center. We would review that

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00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:37,840
through our normal review process but
the ordinance doesn't uh specifically uh

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discuss the uh impact to the water
table.

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00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:47,120
» All right. I just have a quick comment
here about uh energy use and that is

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00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:53,440
simply this. I think you all know
economics and that would be that when

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00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:59,600
demand starts to outstrip supply you
have a problem and you do have to raise

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00:24:56,159 --> 00:25:04,400
prices. So, I would hope I didn't read
the proposed ordinance, but I would hope

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00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:11,039
that there's some provision in there
that would state that somehow someway

300
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:18,880
that wouldn't or couldn't happen. That
the data center would have to be uh in a

301
00:25:15,919 --> 00:25:25,120
sense paying up for their own energy use
and not putting that burden upon the

302
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:30,480
residential users of Murray'sville.
Uh, one other comment. Uh, I would say

303
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:36,400
it doesn't sound like you're going to do
it, but I hope you don't offer any tax

304
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:40,960
incentives to to these folks to do this.
>> Yeah.

305
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:44,400
» Uh, and don't accept promises either.
All right. Thank you.

306
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,720
» Uh, Council President,
>> thank you, sir.

307
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,320
» Council President, if I may, just to
again address that question, um, because

308
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,320
again, I don't want to provide any
misinformation. Uh, and I do want to be

309
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:59,360
as thorough as possible. Again, a lot of
this will occur during the discussion

310
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:04,799
component, but um the draft ordinance
does discuss groundwater tables and if

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00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:09,200
the data center that is proposed is
relying on a non-public water source,

312
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:13,840
then the applicant has to submit a water
feasibility study in conjunction with

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00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:17,760
their uh land development approval
process. So that study would then

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00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:22,320
evaluate whether the water supply is
adversely affected for uh nearby wells,

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00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:26,080
groundwater, surface water, all those
sorts of things. So if they are not

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00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:31,520
using a public water source uh to your
question, yes uh there is language in

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00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:35,760
there uh that addresses uh impacting the
groundwater table can't rely on their

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00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,919
own
>> and and Mike has pointed out that they

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can't rely on that uh the groundwater as
their only source. So right

320
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:50,799
» again there are several components there
that address the water consumption.

321
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:57,799
» Okay. Uh that moves us to our next
public comment which is Bob Axelson. Mr.

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00:26:53,679 --> 00:26:57,799
Axelson if you want to step forward.

323
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:12,720
» Bob Axelson 67 Sunrest Drive Delmont PA.
>> Axelson Ax Ls O N. Uh a lot of sentiment

324
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:17,279
what they said about this about the area
and things my family we have property

325
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:22,799
and export. We got almost 100 acres that
has been since my greatgrandfather owned

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00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:26,000
it. Uh I'm in Delmont right by Shields.
They're literally our backyard stuff

327
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:31,039
like that.
Besides everything that's been addressed

328
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:37,520
that is the major concerns I have in
that wording everything ends with

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00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:42,880
unless deemed not feasible. Does that
mean okay you can you can't fit it in

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00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:46,400
this area that's not feasible. Does that
mean it shuts it down or does that mean

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00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:51,440
well then we're just going to keep going
with what we're doing because we tried

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00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:57,039
to follow the guidelines but we couldn't
do it so we get some leeway and cuz I

333
00:27:54,559 --> 00:28:01,760
know on our properties our ponds
springfed house is well water like they

334
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:06,640
said everything like I said what point
do they say it's not feasible but we're

335
00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:11,600
still willing to put properties and what
people have at risk that's I just want

336
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:16,279
some more clarity on that
Good.

337
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,279
» Great. Thank you, sir.

338
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:22,440
Uh, next would be Carl Deetro

339
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:30,200
now or later.
>> Now, now yeah, that's part of the part

340
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,200
of the ordinance.

341
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:34,809
» Uh,
>> your shirt. I knew that's what you were

342
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:38,559
going to talk about.
[snorts]

343
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:44,799
» Uh, yeah. My name is Carl DPro and I
reside at 2575

344
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:53,840
Linda Drive here in uh Murrayville.
Uh DPRO DI capital P I E T R O.

345
00:28:50,320 --> 00:29:00,799
So I just want to come up and uh kind of
thank the uh board and for uh being

346
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:07,200
receptive to the needs of uh our
community. A lot of people came up here

347
00:29:03,919 --> 00:29:13,120
and testified on behalf of backyard
beekeepers, hobby beekeepers. I don't

348
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:19,039
have 10 acres. I don't look at bees as
livestock. Uh but I do enjoy them. And I

349
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:23,520
wanted the council and the board to
distinguish between a backyard

350
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:29,840
beekeeper, a hobby beekeeper, and a
commercial beekeeper, which I am a hobby

351
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:37,120
beekeeper. I lost a hive this year, too.
So, I'm down to two. Uh because it does

352
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:41,840
demonstrate that uh the board looks at
what some of the people come up here and

353
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:48,159
tell you and in certain instances you
take action and uh we appreciate that.

354
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:55,919
The second thing I want to mention is uh
the irony I'm is is not lost on me in

355
00:29:52,240 --> 00:30:02,640
that one person wrote a couple anonymous
letters because one person didn't want

356
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:07,760
me to have bees but because of what uh
the board and the council have done

357
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:13,679
right now uh any property owner in
Murrayville if this ordinance passes uh

358
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:19,039
has the opportunity to enjoy those
amazing little creatures. Uh that's all

359
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:24,240
I have to say. Thank you so much.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dietra. I know you were

360
00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:27,679
instrumental in uh in having us look at
this all of this ordinance. So, we

361
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:36,039
appreciate uh you bringing that to
light. [snorts]

362
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:36,039
Uh our next speaker is Dave Betett.

363
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:47,360
» Good evening. My name is Dave Bosetti,
5152 Cherry Drive, Export, PA.

364
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:53,440
» Last name Betti B O S TI
just like it sounds.

365
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:58,080
Okay. Again, I want to thank you all for
doing what you've done with the

366
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:03,360
beekeeping. We appreciate that. I uh
have read over it. I have one little

367
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:10,159
concern because I do not want to be
turned in again. And I see a little

368
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:16,799
thing here called aggressive behavior
in the zoning on the thing. Number one,

369
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:22,799
honeybees are not aggressive. Okay? When
you see a swarm in a tree, they're as

370
00:31:19,679 --> 00:31:28,320
gentle as can be. It scares you, but and
that happens every year in a springtime

371
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:36,000
and people go and catch them and they
start a new hive. So when I see that

372
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:40,320
word aggressive, I become concerned.
>> If if I have an aggressive hive, it's

373
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:45,519
occurring right in the box when I'm
working on it. And at that point, I'll

374
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:50,960
make a decision to get rid of that
queen, requeen it, and start over again.

375
00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:57,039
And the bees become very calm. I've
never had to do that. But who's going to

376
00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:00,720
say that that's an aggressive hive?
who's going to make that call so we

377
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:05,840
don't get a phone call again and I have
to come back. But I appreciate again

378
00:32:03,679 --> 00:32:11,279
everything you guys have worked on this.
It's been a long road, but I've been

379
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:16,720
patient and I'm ready to roll.
That's all I have to say.

380
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:20,880
» Great. Thank you, sir.
>> I I can again I don't want to keep I

381
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,159
just want to make sure I don't have too
many things pile up and tell everybody

382
00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:27,919
to wait for, you know, until we get into
the meeting. Some of these I think are

383
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:32,880
just clarifications. Uh and again in
that instance just to try to give you an

384
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:36,720
answer um yes that unusually aggressive
language is in there. Admittedly it is

385
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:41,039
subjective. I think that would be
probably a determination from the code

386
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:45,360
office if there were some sort of
enforcement

387
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:49,519
requirement but um yeah it's it's
certainly a subjective piece of language

388
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:54,080
um that I think would be a determination
the code officer would have to make as

389
00:32:51,679 --> 00:32:58,000
to what qualifies.
I've never seen it. Perfect.

390
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,360
» I don't imagine that will occur. Uh
again, using some of the model

391
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:05,360
ordinances, sometimes it encompasses
language that um you know, we'll even

392
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:08,799
have to navigate and as we move forward
if if we do encounter that.

393
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:12,000
» Thank you. That's all I can say.
>> Sure.

394
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,960
» And if you'd like, just before we get
too far ahead, there there were two

395
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:20,399
other questions. Again, I started to try
to gather some answers. Um the the

396
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:27,600
question um uh from the from the lady in
front was regarding um the emergency

397
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:32,240
backup power uh question and again
looking into it. Um

398
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,480
I'm trying to go back now so bear with
me here but again just trying to be

399
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:40,399
informative. Uh the data centers can
obtain their normal power from the

400
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:43,600
electric grid and but they have to
demonstrate that the grid has the

401
00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:47,039
capacity to handle that. So again, the
power company would have to weigh in on

402
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:51,919
that and provide that. Uh the ordinance
does encourage alternatives

403
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:57,120
uh to reliance on the grid. It doesn't
require it though. So it does encourage

404
00:33:53,679 --> 00:34:01,279
other u sources of power. And I think
your specific question was regarding a

405
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:06,880
potential outage. Um if there is an
outage, emergency generators or any

406
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:12,960
other similar backup power um is
expressly permitted as an accessory use

407
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:18,800
to the facility. Um but the draft does
not require a data center to maintain uh

408
00:34:16,399 --> 00:34:22,480
a specific amount or duration of backup
power. So it is permitted and as an

409
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:26,240
accessory use then it would have to go
through its own sort of approval process

410
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:31,760
under zoning as well if they wanted to
install a separate generation facility

411
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:34,879
on the site but it is not required uh
under the current version of the

412
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:39,679
ordinance. And then the other question
was from the gentleman uh Mr. Axelson, I

413
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:45,919
believe he asked about the language when
it references um unless infeasible or

414
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:48,960
not feasible. Uh again, searching the
ordinance. Uh I know that language is in

415
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:54,480
there, but I wasn't quite sure where it
comes up in four different locations. Um

416
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:59,599
the first is about enclosures and
screening. Um and and the the language

417
00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:04,320
says except we're not mechanically
feasible. Uh so if an enclosure is not

418
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:09,280
mechanically feasible then the equipment
still does have to be screened using one

419
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:14,079
uh or more other methods. So it doesn't
just negate the fact that uh that

420
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:19,839
screening is required. Um as it relates
to heat transfer fluids. Um again the

421
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:25,119
language is anti-reeze or heat transfer
fluids must be non-hazardous where

422
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:29,200
feasible. uh if hazardous materials are
used, spill prevention and secondary

423
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:34,720
containment and a response plan all has
to be included in their um in their plan

424
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:40,400
as well. Uh as it relates to closed loop
cooling systems, um it does say that the

425
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:44,480
applicant would have to demonstrate by
clear and convincing evidence that a

426
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:48,400
closed loop cooling system is infeasible
for that specific project and then they

427
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,359
would have to obtain an exemption. So
again, that would be something that

428
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:56,079
would go up to for review before
council. Um, and so there would have to

429
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,040
be engineering documentation supporting
that and then council would oft

430
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:03,200
ultimately have to make a decision there
on whether they choose to approve or not

431
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:07,520
approve that that system. So it doesn't
again they're not just granted authority

432
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:11,599
to move forward. I would come before
council. And then the last place that it

433
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:16,000
came up in the ordinance, um, council
can grant a waiver for, uh,

434
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:21,920
undergrounding electrical infrastructure
if it is technically impracticable, uh,

435
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:28,800
impractical, um, such as because of like
the geology, the bedrock, uh, anything

436
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:34,000
underground, groundwater, um, and any
physical constraints make the

437
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:39,200
undergrounding of the, um, electric
unsafe or infeasible in some way. So

438
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:43,920
again, um that language does apply in I
guess four different scenarios in here,

439
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:49,040
but each of them kind of have um a
mechanism that either they have to, you

440
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:52,240
know, again, depending on which one,
there's either an alternative in place

441
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:55,920
or they have to receive approval, but
they're not just automatically allowed

442
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:59,680
to move forward because something is
unfeasible. So again, I didn't want to

443
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,599
let too many questions or clarifications
pile up before um I start to address

444
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:10,920
everything. So, I think those were the
only two unanswered so far. So, thank

445
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,920
you. All right.

446
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:19,839
Um, so that is the last person that has
signed up for this. Um, for the good of

447
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:27,079
the order, is there anyone else present
who wishes to provide comment concerning

448
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,079
this ordinance number 1111-26?

449
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:33,599
Going once, ma'am.
>> Please going back. Yeah, you can step

450
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:38,359
forward and just state your name and
address for the record, please.

451
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:47,440
» Hi, my name is Elizabeth Himmlign, H I M
E L E I N, and I live at 4278 Logan

452
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:50,880
Ferry Road. Um, I haven't heard any
questions regarding the discharge of

453
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:54,720
water from these centers and any
pollution that we may have to face from

454
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:59,280
them. if anybody could give any
clarifications. As I point out that we

455
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:03,520
already have enough pollutants in our
environment and we don't need any more

456
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:06,839
for this municipality. Thank you.
>> Thank you, ma'am.

457
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,960
» Mike, I'll let you if you have any
answer for that one.

458
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:17,920
» I'm just searching the ordinance now. Uh
again, bear with me. I don't have it all

459
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:21,440
» quite memorized yet. Uh
>> and we can discuss that during

460
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:24,640
publication as well. And again, I get
multiple hits when I'm searching the

461
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:28,000
ordinance. Um,
>> there are some clear provisions. Again,

462
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:32,480
bear with me as I skim through this, but
um the the ordinance does address water

463
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:37,760
discharge from data centers uh in
several places. Um, but it doesn't

464
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:41,440
prohibit discharge. So, again, I'm just
trying to quickly skim uh as I go

465
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,119
through, but uh again, if you're under a
public water system, the applicant has

466
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:48,160
to describe how much water will be
recycled or discharged and by what

467
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,400
means. So they have to provide that
information at the outset as part of the

468
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:57,839
review process. Um if they use a
non-public water source then the water

469
00:38:54,400 --> 00:39:00,480
feasibility study uh also includes uh
information about discharges. So that's

470
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,800
what we already talked about with the
water table. Um so they would have to

471
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:09,680
again include that uh for a non-public
water source demonstrating that they

472
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:15,760
will not endanger or adversely uh affect
groundwater or surface water quantity or

473
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:18,960
quality. Um they have to also
demonstrate under the ordinance that

474
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:24,560
they have an adequate means of
wastewater disposal including domestic

475
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:30,079
wastewater and the waste water that's
also used for cooling and industrial

476
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:35,599
purposes. Um and that has to be provided
and approved by uh the sewage authority

477
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:42,320
and or the D. Um and then they of course
have to comply with all as always uh

478
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:46,480
state, local, federal uh water quality
regulations. So again, everything comes

479
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:53,760
under that umbrella with D oversight uh
as well as any county or state uh any

480
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:58,880
other uh state or federal uh
requirements. Um so hopefully that helps

481
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:03,040
to at least give some clarification
there. Um so it does require the

482
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,560
applicant to disclose and then
potentially take steps and also fall

483
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:13,599
under the purview of the sewage
authority and the D for any disposal.

484
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:18,240
» All right. Thank you, Mike.
Um, so just one more time for the good

485
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:22,240
of the order, is there anyone in the in
the audience that would like to step up

486
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:29,040
and speak in regards to this specific
ordinance?

487
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:34,720
Going once, going twice. It's old. Um,
okay. So, uh, next we are going I'm

488
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:38,880
going to turn it over to Mike. Is there,
uh, first, is there anything further

489
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:43,200
from the staff that should be placed on
record? And then secondly, uh, is there

490
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,599
anything further from the solicitor that
we'd like to place on record? So, we'll

491
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:49,599
start with you, Mike.
>> Uh, no, I think, um, obviously trying to

492
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,680
help [clears throat] clarify and answer
any questions as we get into the

493
00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:57,440
substantive discussion, I'll certainly,
uh, try to answer any council questions.

494
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:01,200
Um, I don't think there's anything else
from my end, but if council has any

495
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:05,520
questions for myself or Mr. Waznjak,
certainly try to address any uh,

496
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,920
outstanding questions.
>> Great. Wes, anything?

497
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:13,760
» Yeah. my perception. Um I really
appreciated the comments that we

498
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:20,480
received this evening from the public
and it's going to be uh my suggestion

499
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:26,319
um that we can discuss this as part of
the regular agenda u of the public

500
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:32,000
meeting. Um, but I think we probably all
would like to go back and take a look at

501
00:41:29,359 --> 00:41:35,839
uh, ordinance 111-26
in light of the comments that we

502
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:41,359
received tonight from the public before
we move forward on uh, advertising the

503
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:47,520
ordinance, myself included.
>> Yep. Thank you.

504
00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:53,040
Thank you, Wes.
All right. Um, I want to also just thank

505
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:58,480
the public. uh you know this this helps
this body um shape how these ordinance

506
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:03,119
work. Um taking your comments in is
extremely important to every one of us

507
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:07,119
up here. Um, okay. Seeing no further
public comment, the public hearing

508
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:10,119
concerning proposed ordinance number
1111-26

509
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:19,440
is hereby closed at
uh 6:45 p.m. Council will discuss the

510
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:23,760
proposed ordinance later during
tonight's regular meeting in our

511
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:27,079
workshop section. So, that closes this
public hearing.

512
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:33,760
If I could ask councel if we could have
a brief executive session before the

513
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,859
regular meeting that would be
appreciated.

514
00:42:35,839 --> 00:42:37,859
[laughter]

515
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:48,720
» So here's
once we get to

516
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:52,640
» I'd like to call the or call to order uh
this council of the municipality of

517
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:58,560
Mary'sville the Wednesday September 2nd
2026 regular voting meeting. Uh council

518
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:02,960
did meet in executive session prior to
this in regards to a legal matteration

519
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:06,319
» and litigation.
Um

520
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,319
so we're going to stand for a pledge of
>> allegiance.

521
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:20,240
To the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it

522
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:25,800
stands, one nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice

523
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,800
for all.

524
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:35,680
All right.
Can we get a roll call, please?

525
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,920
» Mr. Leemak
>> here.

526
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,920
» Mr. McKenna
>> here.

527
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,000
» Mr. Chazar
>> here.

528
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,920
» Mr. O'eski
>> here.

529
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,680
» Mr. Miller
>> here.

530
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,440
» Mr. Korns
>> here.

531
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,359
» Mrs. Lang
>> present.

532
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,359
» Mayor Dice
>> here.

533
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,440
» All right. Uh that moves us to any
announcement of unlisted amendments,

534
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,480
Mike.
>> None this evening.

535
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:05,680
» All right. That moves us to consent
calendar items uh for the approval of

536
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:10,560
the August 18th me minutes uh meeting.
Can I get a motion for that?

537
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,760
» Motion to approve the August 18th, 2026
minutes.

538
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:16,319
» Second.
>> Thank you, Jamie and Matt. All in favor?

539
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:21,920
» I opposed.
>> All right, that motion passes.

540
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:25,200
Uh, that moves us to comments by the
mayor. Mayor Dice.

541
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,400
» Thank you, Mr. McKenna. If we can get
those slides up.

542
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:32,240
» Uh, yes. They should be coming up any
moment here.

543
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:36,560
» Okay. Firstly, I'll note that at 700
p.m. on Friday, September 11th, there

544
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:40,880
will be a memorial at the Franklin
Regional High School football stadium.

545
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:46,160
Uh, Pastor Dan's been putting a lot of
work putting this together, so if you

546
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:52,640
can be there, please do.
Next up, we have the homesteading day on

547
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:56,800
Saturday, September 12th, 11 to 4. Um,
this is a really cool thing. You can see

548
00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:01,599
reenactors and just overall get to
experience the Samson Clark Toll House.

549
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:06,160
Um, parking, if anyone's done it, you
park down there kind of triangle lane

550
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:12,160
and then walk through a small wooded uh
passage right to the house. Bring up the

551
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:18,160
next one. And lastly, uh because we did
change uh our uh refuge carrier, the

552
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:23,920
cardboard compactor will no longer be
available. However, just recognize that

553
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:28,880
uh your cardboard is recyclable via your
normal Murray'sville recycling uh

554
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:30,800
canister. And I believe that'll do it
for the mayor's announcements. Thank

555
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:34,560
you.
>> All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh that

556
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:41,440
moves us to the comments by the chief
administrator, Mike. Uh yes, just um

557
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:45,839
kind of touching on the um the recycle
uh recycling compactor. Again, we did

558
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:50,160
get some questions from the community.
Um the post that went out was kind of

559
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:55,040
abrupt and so I just wanted to kind of
be clear to the community. We revised

560
00:45:52,000 --> 00:46:00,880
the post online. Uh you can recycle
cardboard curbside in your recycling

561
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:07,040
cart. Um the compactor itself was
intended for residential use only. got

562
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:12,720
that compactor uh about 13 years ago uh
through a grant with uh the DP. Um but

563
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:17,680
that compactor was again intended for
residential use. It wasn't intended for

564
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:22,800
commercial use or businesses. Um but we
had had some issues with businesses or

565
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:29,760
commercial uh companies utilizing that
compactor. Um, in conjunction with that,

566
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:34,480
um, because the unit was 13 years old,
because it was being utilized by some of

567
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:38,800
the higher volume, uh, businesses and
even folks from outside of the

568
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:43,520
community, um, we were having recurring
mechanical problems with it. Anytime

569
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:46,720
that happens, it goes offline. Of
course, the community gets frustrated by

570
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,599
that. We get a phone call letting us
know that it's down, and then

571
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:54,560
ultimately, we have to dispatch public
works uh, to come over. they have to

572
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:58,880
diagnose the issue, uh, get parts, make
the repair, uh, whatever the case may

573
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:03,280
be. And so, because of that, the staff
time, the municipal resources that go

574
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:08,240
into maintaining that service didn't
seem to be, uh, warranted or even

575
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:12,560
economical, especially considering that
same service is offered curbside. So, we

576
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:17,920
are talking with the current or the
upcoming hauler about what we can do for

577
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:21,920
those folks that have a large volume of
cardboard. Uh we did get a couple calls

578
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:26,000
about folks that said even in their
residential daily use, they get more

579
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:31,200
cardboard uh than they can fit in their
recycling container. Um so we're going

580
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:35,920
to look at options uh and and see what
we can do uh or whether they need a

581
00:47:33,359 --> 00:47:40,720
second recycling cart. U so again, I
think those are limited and more

582
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:45,920
isolated users. Uh most folks should be
able to use uh the the cart uh and get

583
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:50,240
uh their cardboard recycling in there.
But for anybody that does have more than

584
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:54,079
the cart allows for, we are trying to uh
establish what we can do, what options

585
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:59,280
we have available to us. Um, but again,
at this time, we did take the compactor

586
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:02,800
offline while we review everything uh
and see what makes the most sense.

587
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:07,280
Again, knowing that it in some ways it's
a duplication of services because you

588
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,560
can get it uh at curbside. So, it's not
that we're removing it from the

589
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:14,640
community or their ability to recycle.
So again, I just wanted to make that

590
00:48:11,839 --> 00:48:21,599
clarification because that is a uh a
larger topic um at least maybe online.

591
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:29,280
Um a second uh item to address uh for
council um is the topic of uh LED signs

592
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:32,800
along the route 22 corridor. Uh, I don't
want to dive too far into this topic as

593
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:38,319
it's only kind of chief administrator
comments, but I do think it's important

594
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:43,520
for council to be aware that um the
there was a a matter that occurred with

595
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:47,359
a sign being installed um that kind of
led to a snowball effect of the

596
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:51,839
municipality doing a a small audit of
the LED signs along the highway and

597
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:56,720
ensuring that those signs are in
compliance with our zoning ordinance.

598
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:00,319
Again, we just uh had a large meeting
about the zoning ordinance and it

599
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:04,160
doesn't address signage. Uh but that
could potentially be something that uh

600
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:11,839
the community or council may want to
consider going forward. Uh as it stands

601
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:16,000
right now, uh LED signage has uh some
limitations um regarding what can be

602
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:20,720
displayed, how it's displayed, and the
color scheme uh along those commercial

603
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:26,000
properties uh in the business district
on Route 22. uh some of the letters that

604
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:30,079
went out were kind of reminding
businesses that they have to be in

605
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:33,920
compliance and and some of their um
programming on their on their screens

606
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:38,720
may be outside of what the ordinance
allows for. So again, this may be a

607
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:42,079
topic that comes forward in uh future
meetings. So I just kind of want to make

608
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:46,480
council and the community aware. Uh
again, we just want to try to maintain

609
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:50,480
compliance and be consistent with that
across the board. We don't want to treat

610
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:54,559
uh businesses differently uh and allow
some to do uh things one way while we

611
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:58,079
don't allow others to do the same. We
want to be fair and consistent across

612
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:02,480
the board. So, unfortunately, that
required us to kind of do a little audit

613
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:06,000
and and send out some reminder letters.
Um so, again, just making council and

614
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:09,280
community aware that uh that small
topic. Uh there aren't too many

615
00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:13,119
businesses that have LED signs, but
there are some. And uh we did have to

616
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:17,280
send some letters out reminding about uh
the the requirements of the sign

617
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:21,280
ordinance. So, uh, other than that, uh,
I think that's probably all, uh, for

618
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,319
chief administrative comments this
evening.

619
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:29,200
» All right. Um, that moves us on to
community input, but prior to that, um,

620
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:33,119
I would like to read a statement. I know
there's been a lot of interest in the

621
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:38,640
community in regards to the Redwood uh,
project going on. I just like to read a

622
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:43,200
statement in regards to that. Um the
conditional use approval did not

623
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:48,559
constitute final approval of redwood
land or a final determination of the

624
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:54,000
geological issues associated with
construction. The conditional use review

625
00:50:51,760 --> 00:51:02,200
address the steep slope requirements
applicable at that stage. The formal

626
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:02,200
land development process remains ahead.

627
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:09,440
Start over. Mike was not. Uh the
conditional use approval did not

628
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:14,000
constitute final approval of the Redwood
land development or a final

629
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:18,640
determination of the geological issues
associated with construction. The

630
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:24,000
conditional use review addressed the
steep slope requirements applicable at

631
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:29,760
that stage. The formal land development
process remains ahead and will include

632
00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:35,359
additional engineering and geotechnical
review based on the actual grading,

633
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:40,960
building locations, foundations, and
site improvements that are proposed. The

634
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:46,960
municipality will utilize a professional
engineer to provide an independent

635
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:52,960
geotechnical peer review of the mine
related conditions and the developer

636
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:58,240
supporting information. That review will
consider the additional deep mine

637
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:03,839
drilling surrounding mine subsidance
history, final overburden depths, and

638
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:08,720
any additional investigation, design
measures, or construction monitoring

639
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:12,800
that may be warranted. The land
development application will then

640
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:19,440
proceed through the planning commission
review and recommendation and separate

641
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:24,319
council action. At this point, there is
a real there is a real mine related

642
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:29,280
information that warrants continued
professional review, but nothing

643
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:35,040
presently before the municipality
establishes an imminent or unacceptable

644
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:38,960
subsidance condition. The appropriate
course is to complete the technical

645
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:44,240
review through the formal land
development process rather than either

646
00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:49,680
dismissing the concern or reaching a
premature conclusion that the property

647
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:55,720
cannot be developed.
So we'll move to community input,

648
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:55,720
please.

649
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:10,559
All right. So for community input, um
just please uh step forward, state your

650
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:15,559
name and your address for the record to
Mury'sville resident. Uh John Nagod.

651
00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:23,440
» For the record, I'm not a Murrayville
resident. Okay.

652
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,240
» Your you business in the business?
>> I own properties in Murray'sville. Okay.

653
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:31,119
Yep.
>> And uh and our family's been here when

654
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:34,720
it was Franklin Township. We're here 126
years.

655
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:40,960
» Okay. Hey, I'm here to speak in behalf
of uh Johnny Lucas, who is our spokesman

656
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:46,480
for the group that was addressing the
Redwood Development in White Valley.

657
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:50,559
Okay. We had a meeting Monday night. Uh
incidentally, Johnny's mother had a had

658
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:54,319
to be taken to the hospital tonight.
That's why he's not here. He's at the

659
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:59,359
hospital with his mother. But we had a
meeting on Monday night with the people

660
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:04,720
of White Valley. And uh there were
prominent people from the community

661
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:11,119
there. Uh you know Wayne Norris was
there, Ben Sansson I believe uh Shirley

662
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:18,480
was there, Shelley and uh the watershed
and all kind of people. We packed the

663
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:24,240
house but uh and we voted after based on
what we've heard so far as a group and

664
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:28,960
we voted in opposition to this project.
And if you want at a later time, we'll

665
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:33,440
go into details why, okay? I have a
personal interest on property and

666
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:37,920
export. I used to see cars floating down
the creek. Okay? But since we built the

667
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:43,200
flood control project, it doesn't
happen. And I worry about taking 69

668
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,839
acres of vegetation off of that
hillside. And that water doesn't go over

669
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:51,119
Hill and Dale. That water goes directly
into the ditch. And that's what it is at

670
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:56,079
that point. It's not a creek. It's a
ditch. So, you'll be hearing from us and

671
00:54:53,599 --> 00:55:01,680
and Johnny will be our spokesman. But,
uh, that's all I got to say. Thank you.

672
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:06,960
» All right. Thank you, Mr. Nagota.
>> Uh, that is the only person that has

673
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:09,839
signed up for, uh, public comment, but
for the good of the order, is there

674
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,160
anyone that would like to speak?
>> I would.

675
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,640
» Uh, sir, please not realize that I had
to sign up.

676
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:18,160
» No, no worries. That's why we do that.
Um, please just step forward. Just state

677
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:22,400
your name and address for the record.
>> So, my name is Lucas Gowolski. I am a

678
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:27,119
co-owner of Pro Trucks and Cars located
at 4166 William Penn Highway. Uh I am a

679
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:31,680
Murray'sville resident. My address is
3827 Hills Church Road and uh I'm not

680
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:35,359
great at public speaking so I have a
little thing to read from here. You

681
00:55:33,119 --> 00:55:40,400
know, it's one of those deals. Um but it
is in conjunction with Mr. Michael's uh

682
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:44,079
comment about the LED board because I
was one of those that got the letter.

683
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:48,799
So, good [clears throat] evening, Mayor
Dice and members of the council. I am

684
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:53,760
Lucas Kowalsski. Uh, everybody calls me
Luke. Uh, owner of Prot Trucks and Cars

685
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:58,079
on Route 22 in Murray'sville. My family
has run this business as well as the

686
00:55:55,599 --> 00:56:01,920
Napa that used to be there uh for over
30 years. Uh, I'm here about the

687
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:06,480
compliance notice that we received on
our electric sign. I want to be upfront.

688
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:11,040
We're not here uh to fight the notice or
ask for special treatment. It's not the

689
00:56:08,319 --> 00:56:14,319
way we do business. We are here because
we think it's a good moment for the

690
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:18,400
council to take a fresh look at this
ordinance. And I do have a um a proposal

691
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:22,799
for you guys I'd love to give you for
you to read. Um here's the situation.

692
00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:28,000
Our sign has been running the same way
since 2013. Uh actually the exact same

693
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:32,880
way for over a year because I lost
control of the sign and we've been

694
00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:37,680
investigating new sign options. Uh but
our [clears throat] sign has been uh

695
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:41,680
running since 2013 when the municipality
reviewed and permitted it. But the rules

696
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:45,040
that are now being cited to us in this
letter, the amber only, no color

697
00:56:43,359 --> 00:56:50,079
requirement, were actually adopted back
in 2005 and 2006, years before our

698
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:54,640
permit was issued. So for over a decade,
the sign has operated in plain sight,

699
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:58,559
fully approved under a law that
technically predates it. That gap is

700
00:56:57,119 --> 00:57:03,520
really at the heart of why I'm asking
you to look at this tonight. Beyond our

701
00:57:01,359 --> 00:57:08,640
situation specifically, this ordinance
is almost 20 years old. LED sign

702
00:57:06,319 --> 00:57:12,720
technology has moved a lot since then.
Today's displays have automatic dimming,

703
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:17,200
ambient light sensors, static hold
timers built in, the exact tools that

704
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:22,559
address glare distraction without
needing to ban outright color. A lot of

705
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:27,520
towns along our corridor like ours now
allow full color displays. Um, there's a

706
00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:32,240
great one in export at the Italian club.
It's beautiful and I guarantee you it's

707
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:36,559
not going to cause me to wreck my car.
um well

708
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:40,640
within reasonable limits like scroll
speeds, how long the messages can stay,

709
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:45,359
how bright they are, stuff like that is
how we should be controlling these

710
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:48,799
signs, not just a single color. You
know, right now Murray'sville standards

711
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,799
put local businesses at real
disadvantages compared to our nearby

712
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:58,160
communities, both for what we can
advertise and honestly for how dated

713
00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:04,880
everything looks. It's so like you drive
down Murray'sville just from my you know

714
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:09,040
opinion and we're very outdated like
everything's amber everything's kind of

715
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:13,599
graywashed you you roll up I mean
rudders is another great example that

716
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:16,799
sign is brilliant the flag waves on it
you know I think that's one of the

717
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:22,079
things you guys cited me for is my amber
flag because it kind of has a waving

718
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:27,440
motion to it like that's patriotic and I
can't do that in Murray'sville that's to

719
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:32,400
me very upsetting thing, you know. So,
my ask tonight is simple. I'd like the

720
00:58:30,319 --> 00:58:35,520
council to refer to chapter 220's
electric science standards to the

721
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:41,040
planning commission or whatever
committee makes sense in this. I'm not a

722
00:58:38,319 --> 00:58:45,119
government guy, so you tell me for
review and updating it around today's

723
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:50,000
technology rather than 20-year-old
standards. I mean, any of you guys have

724
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:54,880
flip phones still?
We're all in smartphones. Should update

725
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:58,640
some stuff. We're happy to work with the
staff with your staff on our own

726
00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:02,960
compliance in the meantime, but we think
this is worth a broader look for our

727
00:59:00,319 --> 00:59:06,720
business and others in the corridor. You
know, my sign's going to more than

728
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:11,359
likely end up being turned off because I
don't have control. I don't have the

729
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:16,720
access that I need to change it. If I
did, I would have updated it right away

730
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:20,400
and did that. I have it in my IT guys
hands. I have another guy coming in to

731
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:24,799
take a look at the computer to see if he
can get it to log on. But ultimately

732
00:59:22,799 --> 00:59:31,200
what this letter is doing is shutting
off my LED sign which does have some

733
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:36,559
advertising good and value for me. So
that's my two cents. I hope you guys

734
00:59:34,319 --> 00:59:41,240
take a look at it and do something.
Thank you.

735
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,240
» Thank you very much for your comment.

736
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,359
» Um some other
>> Yeah.

737
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,920
» Yep.
>> Sir, would you Yep. If you'd like to

738
00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:50,880
step forward,
>> we can look into that in a future.

739
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:56,400
» Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to Mike.
I'll say something.

740
00:59:53,760 --> 01:00:01,280
» Afternoon. My name is Fred Carrera. I
have 200 foot fronting along Wilson

741
00:59:59,119 --> 01:00:05,040
Road. I'm 3151 Wilson Road right above
home screen. I have 200 foot frontage

742
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:09,520
which is which is adjacent to this
property which you're looking at

743
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:15,280
development. And what concerns me is I
can barely add the stands now back onto

744
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:19,280
that road from my driveway without a car
coming down the hill which I can't see

745
01:00:16,799 --> 01:00:24,480
above the hill. down below the hill. I
can see down at the home screen house.

746
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:29,280
And if you put this development which is
intended to be down below

747
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:35,200
oh the house is down there which is
halfway up the hill. That could be he

748
01:00:32,319 --> 01:00:40,319
said it's going to be 178 units. It's
probably

749
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:45,040
say 6 to800 people probably 400 cars
coming entry and exit on Wilson Road.

750
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,319
That's excessive. That road is not
designed right now. Now you get all the

751
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:54,799
traffic from 66. People take the
shortcut from 66 to 22. They don't they

752
01:00:51,119 --> 01:01:01,799
avoid the clover leaf up in Delmont. And
right now I understand the traffic is

753
01:00:56,559 --> 01:01:01,799
already excessive and to put additional

754
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:07,839
homes or cars on that road is not
appropriate.

755
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:13,400
That's my comment.
>> All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you for

756
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,400
your comment.

757
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:22,119
So again for the good of the order
anyone

758
01:01:17,839 --> 01:01:22,119
» sir absolutely step forward.

759
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:37,440
» Um my name is Zach King. I live at 3940
Sunflower Court in Heritage Estates. And

760
01:01:35,839 --> 01:01:43,599
today I just wanted to ask you guys
about a date. So does anyone recall

761
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:49,040
April 9th, 2014
and what happened that day?

762
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:53,680
So since then uh I've met with
administrator and principal and asked

763
01:01:51,839 --> 01:02:00,880
for help over two years ago almost to
the date and we also uh have called the

764
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:05,200
school board left messages numerous
numerous times administration building.

765
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:09,359
I did receive a phone call back. I
missed it. I was on a job. They didn't

766
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:13,920
leave a voicemail. I also spoke with
Jill Cooper's office and I asked them,

767
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:17,440
you know, advice on the situation. They
were like, "Oh, just keep calling the

768
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:22,160
school board." So, this is why I came
here today. So, this was a tragic day

769
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:27,119
for Franklin Regional School District.
This is when the stabbing occurred. Um,

770
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:33,280
on camera, there was a school resource
officer who was running out of the

771
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:38,240
building to go to his vehicle to god
knows what he was going to get. And also

772
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:46,079
there was another man who acted on
instinct and his heart and ran down the

773
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:50,040
hallway and tackled the man. So
this man was Mr. King.

774
01:02:52,160 --> 01:03:03,920
So with his selfless acts of bravery
and what he did to honor the community

775
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:12,559
and the students, neighbors, family,
um he deserves some recognition.

776
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:18,000
We uh unfortunately
Mr. King's my father.

777
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:21,920
Across the street was the
perpetrator who committed this heinous

778
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:25,280
act. So my father wanted to stick
around. He was going to retire. He

779
01:03:23,039 --> 01:03:29,280
wanted to stick around for another year
and you know for the students, for the

780
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:34,880
community to show strength. Um very
selfless man. Turned down every single

781
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:38,720
interview. Didn't meet with any news.
Did whatever he could to stay out of the

782
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:44,720
limelight. Everything he did in his life
was

783
01:03:40,319 --> 01:03:48,640
to do what's right, not why. He just
wanted to do what's right and stay under

784
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:52,000
the radar.
Um, unfortunately, I wish I would have

785
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:55,599
did this or someone would have did this
sooner. So, couple years after he

786
01:03:53,920 --> 01:04:00,880
retired, he moved to Florida to get away
from seeing that sight and reminder

787
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:04,160
every day across the street. And then,
um, I do believe it was stress related.

788
01:04:02,799 --> 01:04:09,440
He had a hard time with this that he
never talked about and he ended up

789
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:12,319
passing with pancreatic cancer. So, he
worked his whole life, dedicated his

790
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:16,160
whole life to the community at the
school district for over 20 years, had

791
01:04:13,839 --> 01:04:18,720
an impact on many people's lives, many
children. And every time I run into

792
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:23,039
someone who actually knows him, they
speak great things. And I'm not just

793
01:04:21,359 --> 01:04:28,240
saying that because me and my dad budded
headto head. That's what kids and their

794
01:04:25,359 --> 01:04:32,000
dad do. But he was very respected. Even
going back to where he grew up and I run

795
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:35,119
into a random person in the street or at
a store and they find out like he was

796
01:04:33,599 --> 01:04:40,640
the he was little league coach or
whatever. Just he dedicated his life to

797
01:04:37,359 --> 01:04:45,119
do the right thing. Um we're all not
perfect. We know that. So he tried his

798
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:55,599
best and he never wanted any credit for
it. So, what I'm here to ask for today

799
01:04:50,240 --> 01:05:02,400
is an opportunity to do some type of
memorial for him, whether it be a placer

800
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:06,079
on a bench or a little stone with his
engraving or just something that'll last

801
01:05:04,319 --> 01:05:11,520
time.
And I wish he could have saw that, but

802
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:15,680
he he deserves that. And he deserves
that everlasting recognition for his

803
01:05:13,359 --> 01:05:20,480
bravery. And I just wanted to ask you
guys if you had any oppositions to

804
01:05:18,799 --> 01:05:27,119
supporting
um this potential small project that I

805
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:31,280
think would do well for the community.
>> I I can personally speak that I had your

806
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:34,880
father for principal. I know there's
several other members of this room who

807
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:38,319
who have had him as well. So I can
certainly attest to that bravery and

808
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,240
thank him for that.
>> Thank you guys.

809
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:46,400
» Thank you so much.
>> Thank you. And thank you to your father

810
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:51,520
for his bravery. Uh absolutely. I'll
I'll speak with uh with Dne and we'll

811
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:54,960
obviously bring the superintendent
involved and uh and see what we can do

812
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,000
because
>> um that that is very deserving.

813
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:04,559
» Absolutely.
>> So thank you uh very much for that

814
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:09,359
comment. Um so to close out uh community
input just again uh for the good of the

815
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:15,839
order anyone wishes to come up and speak
as far as public comment.

816
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:20,079
Going once, going twice. So uh okay,
that closes the community input. Uh

817
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:24,000
moves us to liaison comments and
committee reports. Uh Mike, we'll start

818
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:28,960
down here with you.
>> Uh uh thank you. Before I get into that,

819
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:35,119
I just for everybody in the room before
you leave, um I just want to thank

820
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:39,440
everybody for coming tonight. Um I've
I've attended about a thousand hearings

821
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:44,559
over the past 10 years. I lost track at
some point. And between the hearing

822
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:49,680
before, uh you know, hearing before and
then public comment tonight, we had a

823
01:06:47,119 --> 01:06:54,960
number of items here that are are
controversial or uh there are high

824
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:59,599
emotions about. Um, but you guys came in
and you gave great information. You've

825
01:06:56,799 --> 01:07:04,880
helped the board stay more informed. Um,
I write down everybody who talks and

826
01:07:01,839 --> 01:07:09,200
everything you say. We can't always do
exactly what is being asked of us, but

827
01:07:07,359 --> 01:07:13,280
everything that you say comes and I know
that the entire council feels the same

828
01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:22,720
way that, you know, those concerns are
are are important to us. Um and when we

829
01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:26,480
are considering, you know, applications,
land development, that sort of thing, um

830
01:07:25,119 --> 01:07:30,559
you know, it is our job to make sure
that we've reviewed everything that's

831
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:34,480
presented to us from both you guys and
the applicants, um and vet everything

832
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:37,599
thoroughly. And you know, when any of
these projects come in, obviously the

833
01:07:36,319 --> 01:07:41,359
ones that were talked about tonight, but
anything else, you know, I will always

834
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:46,480
look at everything in great detail. I
know so will the rest of council. um and

835
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:52,079
our staff will hold everybody
accountable to the promises that they

836
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:59,200
make. But so again, I want to thank you
all for uh a wonderful a wonderful

837
01:07:54,880 --> 01:08:04,960
evening. Um moving on to liaison. Uh we
did have a uh medic one meeting after uh

838
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:08,640
our last meeting. Obviously our last
meeting is when medicin came in to

839
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:11,839
speak. One thing I did want to address
and so I've given everybody a document

840
01:08:10,319 --> 01:08:18,239
because there was a question that came
up at that hearing uh after the

841
01:08:15,359 --> 01:08:22,000
discussion about uh how much money has
been given over the years and when that

842
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:26,319
changed. I know there was you know
suggestion made that it was changed last

843
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:33,679
year and or whether it changed 5 years
ago. So I I got the actual numbers um

844
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:43,120
and the number has been flat since 2024.
Um so there's been three years of um

845
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:46,799
granting uh 108,311.
Um that was a pretty big jump because

846
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:50,960
for a number of years before that it was
looks like it was flat for a number of

847
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:57,120
years before that at 63,000.
Uh this does reflect uh this change does

848
01:08:53,920 --> 01:09:05,120
reflect when the $5 fee uh per resident
fee uh was implemented uh likely in 2023

849
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:08,159
for for 2024. So, um, you know, it's not
quite as bad as maybe I originally

850
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:11,679
thought that it hadn't been changed for
a lot of years, but we are going into

851
01:09:09,679 --> 01:09:15,839
year four.
Inflation is a thing that obviously

852
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:19,520
impacts all of us and it's impacting
Medic one. Um, and I also do note, you

853
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:25,040
know, if you look at the other
municipalities and their donations, um,

854
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:30,239
export has been giving 5,000 presumably
that's based on their population. Um,

855
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:33,839
Washington Township, it appears that
they have gone up this year. they were

856
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:38,560
40,000 in the past and have gone to
50,000. Um I'm not sure if that's coming

857
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:43,520
from an adjustment they were if they
made an adjustment if they're just

858
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:46,239
donating extra. But um I just think uh
>> that's just extra.

859
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:51,679
» Just extra. Okay. So they were giving a
little bit of extra money this year. Um

860
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:55,679
I don't think I we have a lot of things
to spend money on. I recognize that. So

861
01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:59,520
I don't think a massive increase would
make sense. Um, but I think looking at

862
01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:04,719
these numbers, you know, a small
adjustment for next year um would be

863
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:10,239
something we may want to consider uh and
doing that every couple years just just

864
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:13,920
to keep them strong and we heard last
time about how much they do for the

865
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:17,520
community. So, um and we did not have a
pension meeting after the last between

866
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:21,280
last. [clears throat] Thank you.
>> Thanks, Mike. Darren,

867
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:24,800
» the uh Franklin Regional School Board uh
did not meet since the last update I

868
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:29,600
provided at our last meeting. They will
be meeting on the 14th at 7:30 here in

869
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:33,199
in the chamber. Uh the parks and recck
foundation will be meeting on the 15th.

870
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:37,679
As a change, we're going to start
meeting in the evening after the uh

871
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:40,239
parks and wreck meeting.
>> Thank you,

872
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:45,600
Jason.
>> FTMSA met on August 20th. Um they

873
01:10:43,679 --> 01:10:51,360
continue to work several capital
projects which includes um improvements

874
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:55,920
to the nitrification tower and some uh
meadow brook pump station work. Uh from

875
01:10:54,159 --> 01:11:01,840
an operational point of view, they
continue to do the sewer checks and uh

876
01:10:58,719 --> 01:11:06,960
and manhole inspections and repairs uh
along with um pump station maintenance.

877
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:10,400
Uh so everything's running smoothly
there and on track.

878
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:14,400
» Thank you.
>> Thank you, Jason. Jamie,

879
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:18,880
» the next planning commission meeting is
Tuesday, September 8th at 7 p.m. right

880
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:24,320
here in council chambers.
>> EAC mate met on August 25th last week.

881
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:32,480
Main discussion was around the Beverly
Manor um uh project. Okay.

882
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:37,120
» Uh the library met on 9:20 or August
20th, I'm sorry. Uh they're very excited

883
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:42,719
about their sidewalks and the steps
being redone because of that. uh their

884
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:46,239
entrance will be closed coming this
Friday

885
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:50,159
through so they're asking everybody come
in through the front entrance up through

886
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:54,880
the elevator through the library started
on 94 through 9:14.

887
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:59,280
Um
also the drop box has been moved out to

888
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:02,960
the front to the drop off box books. So
if you have to drop off some books go

889
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:08,960
ahead and take it to the drop off box in
front. They will be closed on Labor Day.

890
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:15,600
So the library will be closed on Labor
Day and um their their audit basically

891
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:20,320
through the county was passed and they
submitted for their new finding for

892
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:23,199
their uh application for their funds and
it's being approved because their

893
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:27,280
audit's been approved. So we're doing
well up there.

894
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:33,280
» All right. Thank you very much, Bill. Uh
Parks and Recreation, uh the next

895
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:37,199
meeting is Tuesday, September 15th, uh
here at the municipal building. And the

896
01:12:35,199 --> 01:12:41,840
only reminder is that uh you know we're
pretty excited about the disc golf

897
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:47,520
course. I know they're taking uh uh tea
sponsorships and uh basket sponsorships

898
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:50,800
and whatnot. So any businesses or uh
residents or anyone that would like to

899
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:55,840
be part of that. There's a big range.
You can go from uh smaller amount dollar

900
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:59,760
amounts up to large dollar amounts. So
uh feel free to reach out to the parks

901
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:06,159
and recck department uh in regards to
that. So that is it for the liaison

902
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:10,719
comments and committee reports. Uh that
moves us to workshop items. Uh we have

903
01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:16,560
nothing under administration, nothing
under engineering. That moves us to

904
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:22,960
community development. Um that would be
uh 11A the discussion of ordinance

905
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:28,239
number 1111-26
amending chapter 220 of the code of the

906
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:34,080
municipality of Murray'sville to define
and add specific requirements for data

907
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:41,120
centers data center accessory uses solar
energy facilities forestry apiaries and

908
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:43,679
zoning hearing board membership
Mike

909
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:46,960
» um yes I [clears throat] don't think
much more of an introduction is

910
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:52,239
necessary. We just completed the public
hearing. Um so I think at this time

911
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:57,440
between myself and uh Mike Waznjak,
planning director, um we are certainly

912
01:13:54,719 --> 01:14:02,320
here to be able to answer questions or
have discussion uh with council. Uh I

913
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:07,199
would think uh if there are any
questions or concerns that council wants

914
01:14:04,719 --> 01:14:11,600
to have addressed, um now would be a
good time to start to go through that.

915
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:17,520
And as the solicitor indicated earlier,
um it it is likely uh that the uh

916
01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:20,960
subsequent agenda item should be tabled
as we work through those questions and

917
01:14:19,199 --> 01:14:24,480
concerns that council may have. So
again, based on discussion from the

918
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:28,560
public hearing or any other concerns you
may have, uh we're certainly happy to

919
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:34,080
have discussion and answer answer
questions or provide feedback.

920
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:37,631
» All right. Um
>> you want me to go first?

921
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:42,800
» I would love for you to go first.
[laughter]

922
01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:47,120
Okay. So, there's a lot. It's I think a
really good framework to start with. I

923
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:53,520
know planning commission put a lot into
it to get it here where it is. Also, the

924
01:14:50,159 --> 01:14:59,840
county. So, I just had um some comments
and bear with me. This is going to be

925
01:14:55,280 --> 01:15:07,120
probably a little lengthy. Okay. Um so
one thing that happened is on August

926
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:12,320
18th an executive order was issued for
the for um governor's responsible

927
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:17,840
infrastructure development or grid
requirements which are not included in

928
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:23,120
the ordinance at all. So, um, it
requires that facilities with, uh, peak

929
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:27,120
demand exceeding 25 megawws shall
execute and remain in compliance with

930
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:31,760
the Pennsylvania grid consent order and
agreement.

931
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:36,480
Um, so we should probably incorporate
that somewhat into the ordinance. Um,

932
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:40,800
and that material non-compliance shall
constitute a violation of the

933
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:45,040
conditional use approval.
So, moving on, I'll try to be as brief

934
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:50,560
as I can because I know we'll be coming
back and doing a lot more discussion

935
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:55,199
about this. Um, I think possibly we
should look at requiring a 5 to 10year

936
01:15:52,719 --> 01:16:00,480
load ramp up schedule.
Um, because

937
01:15:58,159 --> 01:16:07,960
energy changes, cost changes, demand
changes, um, utility system upgrades and

938
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:07,960
who will pay for each one.

939
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:15,040
annual public reporting to Murray'sville
of energy water generator use and

940
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:21,120
compliance
and maybe institute a new conditional

941
01:16:18,719 --> 01:16:30,560
use approval for any increase of 5
megawatts or 10% whichever is less.

942
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:38,000
Okay, moving on to the next point number
two uh water regulation. So,

943
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:45,040
um, let me let's see. I got a bunch of
stuff all over the place here. Okay, so

944
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:49,760
um, prohibit exceeded without, uh, new
conditional use hearings. Prohibit I'm

945
01:16:48,159 --> 01:16:53,440
just going to say it quick because I
know we're going to review it all later.

946
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:57,920
Uh, prohibit private wells from cooling,
humidification, industrial processes, or

947
01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:02,640
routine operations.
require baseline and ongoing monitoring

948
01:17:00,159 --> 01:17:08,000
of nearby wells, groundwater, streams,
springs and wetlands with an enforcable

949
01:17:04,719 --> 01:17:13,199
replacement water remedy. Um require d
uh drought stage conservation or

950
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:18,480
curtailment and certify that service is
not red does not reduce domestic

951
01:17:15,199 --> 01:17:23,520
pressure in in the water especially fire
flow capacity because we don't want

952
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:27,440
there to be a fire and our firefighters
can't can't fight it.

953
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:33,280
Okay,
next point. Uh, well, I'll skip that and

954
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:38,320
I'll move on. Um,
just get the the super important things

955
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:44,880
out of the way and we'll discuss the the
rest later. I know. Are we still um

956
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:49,280
looking at a separate best ordinance?
>> I'm sorry. Um, what what ordinance?

957
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:52,400
» The electric storage.
Uh

958
01:17:49,679 --> 01:17:59,360
» we I thought we had a separate ordinance
that we were looking at a a um a model

959
01:17:55,760 --> 01:18:02,480
one at the same time the model data
center or data center ordinance was

960
01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:07,679
brought before us.
>> Um there's there's no different

961
01:18:04,719 --> 01:18:12,159
ordinance uh in consideration than than
the one that we have in front of us. So

962
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:16,480
that may have incorporate we did use
several model ordinances. Uh the

963
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:20,480
solicitor also has done some of these
ordinances in other municipalities. we

964
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:25,520
kind of utilized and pulled from each of
those what we felt was necessary or

965
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:28,320
relevant uh to build this one out. So
that may be what you're referring to.

966
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:31,120
» Okay, that's probably baked in.
>> Remember that, Wes? Okay. I thought I

967
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,719
just wanted to make sure I wasn't
missing something.

968
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:40,640
» All right,
>> that's okay. Um so as far as the um you

969
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:44,320
know residential setbacks go,
I think we should definitely take a look

970
01:18:42,159 --> 01:18:49,040
at that. I don't really have um a
suggestion until we look at, you know,

971
01:18:46,719 --> 01:18:55,760
the the zoning and and what's available.
So, um we'll just skip on that. Moving

972
01:18:52,560 --> 01:19:01,440
on and then we'll move on to uh the
solar. Um

973
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:07,040
we don't I don't think we have setbacks
in the solar part of the ordinance. So,

974
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:13,600
maybe we should be considering a setback
for that as well like we did for the

975
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:18,800
data centers. Um, and that's up for
discussion. Just kind of throwing that

976
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:23,040
out there. Um, limit disturbance or put
a cap on the disturbance of woodlands

977
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:30,840
that can be
um, stripped and possibly require a

978
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,840
formal glare analysis

979
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:40,239
for the solar panels. Um,
and from my research, it looks like what

980
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:45,840
we are looking for for the
decommissioning and, um, the security

981
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:53,120
we're requiring that that might need to
be upped. Um,

982
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:57,120
but that's, you know, for discussion.
Um,

983
01:19:55,040 --> 01:20:03,520
and then I had called Michael earlier
just to correct just a a typo in the

984
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:10,159
ordinance. Um the 220-30
FF should go to 220-31

985
01:20:06,480 --> 01:20:13,159
FF just to keep everything
um

986
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:21,120
in line. So I'll just stop there, but
there's a lot more coming. Just

987
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:27,360
» No, thank you. Uh Mike, in regards to
the setbacks for the solar, would that

988
01:20:23,679 --> 01:20:31,760
just fall under setbacks that are in
place for

989
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:36,800
like land development or how where would
that fall?

990
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:41,920
» Or the smallcale uh residential or small
commercial solar um they have to reply

991
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:44,400
they have to comply with the normal
building setback requirements in the

992
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,760
ordinance
>> for that zoning district. Um for large

993
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:57,600
scale solar um there is no specific
solar setback written into the section

994
01:20:51,840 --> 01:21:01,199
that's being referred to that 31 GG. Um
so the only thing that would apply would

995
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:05,840
be the underlying district setbacks as
well. Uh and I think that's part of the

996
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:10,560
reason why it's not explicitly
uh established in there because it comes

997
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:12,800
back to the the overall uh district
requirements.

998
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:15,840
» Okay.
>> Okay.

999
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:20,560
Um,
I'll go just quickly. I I don't I have

1000
01:21:18,239 --> 01:21:24,719
just a couple questions. Uh, one of the
things that came up in the public

1001
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:30,800
comment section at the public hearing
was the verification of water and

1002
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:34,640
electrical use to these data centers as
they apply. How was that verified? unit

1003
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:39,120
like
>> I'm sorry I meant

1004
01:21:35,679 --> 01:21:43,679
» the verification of of what they are
presenting that they're going to be

1005
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:50,080
using as far as electric and water to us
during their submission of their plan.

1006
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:54,159
How is that verified that, you know,
that number is correct? Because once

1007
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:59,360
that's in place, if they're taking a lot
more electric or less electric, more

1008
01:21:56,639 --> 01:22:05,840
water, you know, that that just was an
interesting comment to me and I just

1009
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:11,520
» um I would think that the um local
utility would have a hand in monitoring

1010
01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:17,520
that. I mean, I know that we don't have
the capability or resources to go out

1011
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:21,360
and conduct monitoring activities. Um,
so in some regards, no different than

1012
01:22:19,679 --> 01:22:25,679
maybe a building permit of some sort.
You know, we monitor

1013
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:28,639
uh the construction and installation,
but ultimately if somebody were to

1014
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:34,000
modify something after the fact and
we're not aware of it, you know, right?

1015
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:39,120
And mine's my question is more when they
submit a plan for that and you have, you

1016
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:44,400
know, a data center that is whatever
size that is and they're stating that

1017
01:22:42,159 --> 01:22:47,199
that, you know, this is the amount of
electricity and this is the amount of

1018
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:54,320
water that they're going to pull from
that. you know, ho how are we able to

1019
01:22:51,440 --> 01:23:01,120
try to to make sure that's accurate as
we're like can we put stipulations or

1020
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:05,040
conditions on that during that process?
>> I'm sure that there is a way to do that.

1021
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:08,960
Now
>> then the next problem I shouldn't say

1022
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:13,760
problem but then the next matter becomes
enforcement and I I

1023
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:16,960
» you know I don't know that answer. I I I
wouldn't want to speak to that without

1024
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:19,920
having full knowledge and maybe that's a
legal question. And I don't want to put

1025
01:23:18,159 --> 01:23:24,480
the solicitor on the spot.
>> Um but enforcement is would be that

1026
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:29,920
second component that I don't know
exactly how that would be addressed.

1027
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:36,320
» One of the things that
I am contemplating is whether we can

1028
01:23:32,719 --> 01:23:41,520
require data centers to only access
public water supply.

1029
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:46,880
Um I would have want take the
opportunity to look into that, but based

1030
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:54,320
upon the expected pool
um required of a data center

1031
01:23:51,520 --> 01:24:01,280
from a water source, I would be
concerned that private water supply

1032
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:05,920
could accommodate that demand.
So

1033
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:12,480
I am just thinking out loud as to
whether or not we could as part of the

1034
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:19,199
conditional use require that they have
access to a public water supply utilize

1035
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:26,639
the public water supply and if the
infrastructure is not sufficient to

1036
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:32,320
satisfy that demand plus the demand of
other individuals on that public water

1037
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:37,920
supply they would have to upscale upsize
the water supply infrastructure

1038
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:43,920
» just in I I would state in general and I
have some experience with these um

1039
01:24:40,239 --> 01:24:49,920
centers in my career the majority of
them are uh would will use a closed loop

1040
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:55,840
system so you fill them up with water
and that through heat exchangers they

1041
01:24:52,159 --> 01:25:03,600
cool the facility and um I know in our
own facility it uses um about 5 to 6% %

1042
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:06,639
water per year capacity. So if it's
20,000 gallons, I'm just making that

1043
01:25:05,199 --> 01:25:11,199
number up. Every year you're going to
have to put 5% of that back into it due

1044
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:15,840
to evaporation and and usage, but that
water is treated and and circulated

1045
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:18,320
around. So they don't I'm wondering if
we could just say you have to have a

1046
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:21,840
closed loop system here in
Murray'sville.

1047
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:24,719
» It does say it does require a closed
loop system.

1048
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:31,040
» Okay.
>> Yeah.

1049
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:38,400
And the only other uh um I had a couple
notes here. Oh, um she had brought up

1050
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:42,560
with the the loss of power. Um when we
have a lot of that in Mville some from

1051
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:46,560
you know it happens in these
neighborhoods and businesses and you

1052
01:25:44,480 --> 01:25:52,800
know you see the power go out. When that
happens, is there

1053
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:58,639
is is that a stress on when that power
comes back on and they're pulling that

1054
01:25:55,520 --> 01:26:04,800
much more energy at a data center? Does
that affect the businesses in the

1055
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:10,080
residential areas that their power is
going to, you know, be delayed in coming

1056
01:26:07,199 --> 01:26:14,080
back on or, you know, that area? Like,
how does that work?

1057
01:26:12,719 --> 01:26:18,000
Are you asking whether they would
receive power first or

1058
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:20,320
» Yeah, I'm just Yeah, that was just an
interesting question that I brought it

1059
01:26:19,679 --> 01:26:24,560
down that I would
>> Yeah, I I would say first that would be

1060
01:26:22,639 --> 01:26:28,320
a question for the power company,
>> but I would think and I don't want

1061
01:26:27,004 --> 01:26:33,199
[snorts] to speculate, but I would think
that it would be highly unlikely for a

1062
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:38,400
data center or any other business to
have priority over

1063
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:42,480
» receiving electric service
um you know, after an outage,

1064
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:46,960
» right? prior to the surrounding
properties. Um, and again, I don't want

1065
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,679
to speculate, but that would be a
question the power company would answer,

1066
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:54,920
and I think they would have probably a
clear answer to that as well.

1067
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,920
» Um,

1068
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:58,239
» any
>> I do have one other question.

1069
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:02,960
» Go ahead.
>> One other question then. Um,

1070
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:08,480
» you know, a year or two into it or five
years into the project, the uh data

1071
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:12,639
center is up. who who pays for the
upgrades that need like new substations

1072
01:27:10,719 --> 01:27:15,679
or transmission upgrades, stuff like
that. Does that get passed on to the

1073
01:27:14,480 --> 01:27:20,000
consumer? I think we need to be careful
it's not getting passed on to the

1074
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:25,600
residents of Murray. So,
>> so again, based on only my knowledge and

1075
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:32,639
and kind of my studies of data centers
and the the difficulties that um you

1076
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:36,800
know, this these data centers have
created for municipalities.

1077
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:42,639
I would think again that's probably a
question for the power company. Um when

1078
01:27:39,679 --> 01:27:49,280
you talk about updating the grid or a
substation that would be under their

1079
01:27:45,199 --> 01:27:53,840
purview. Um whether a data center is in
some way impacting the longevity of that

1080
01:27:52,159 --> 01:27:58,080
system
again that that is not something that I

1081
01:27:55,760 --> 01:28:03,120
I think we would control. I think that
um again the power company would

1082
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:06,719
ultimately be the final say over how it
impacts their system and whether they

1083
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:10,400
can and I think that's why we have the
requirements that the power company

1084
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:15,840
would have to they would have to receive
approval from the power company and show

1085
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:21,440
that the system can withstand or or
sustain the installation of of a data

1086
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:26,400
center. And in conjunction with that,
again, just my limited knowledge, uh,

1087
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:31,440
having previously been involved with a
power company,

1088
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:35,679
that could apply even if a data center
is put in a neighboring town. Uh, it

1089
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:38,560
still may impact our grid or a
substation that supplies power to

1090
01:28:37,199 --> 01:28:42,159
Murray'sville. So again, I think those
are probably more technical questions

1091
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:46,080
that wouldn't be addressed by a
municipal ordinance, but I think would

1092
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:50,320
be more under the purview of the power
company. Again, I that's probably maybe

1093
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:55,679
a legal determination that Wes could or
or someone else may want to weigh in on.

1094
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:59,120
Um, but that would be my my
understanding is that that would be

1095
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:03,560
something under the purview of the power
company as to how it impacts their

1096
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,560
infrastructure.

1097
01:29:04,719 --> 01:29:10,080
» I just had a couple of comments. I'm not
going to I'm not going to repeat

1098
01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:14,320
everything that everybody else already
said uh also from the group uh out here

1099
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:21,520
because those are all issues that need
to be vetted now for the next draft. Um,

1100
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:26,880
but following up on Jaime's battery uh
storage uh facility, I think there was a

1101
01:29:24,480 --> 01:29:30,960
misunderstanding I think of what I and
because we talked about this what we

1102
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:36,000
were asking for because um this
ordinance does include battery storage

1103
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:41,199
under data centers, but I think what
what I was and I think Jamie done it

1104
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:47,040
first and I agreed with was looking was
looking for a separate regulation of uh

1105
01:29:44,480 --> 01:29:50,000
standalone battery uh energy storage
systems.

1106
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:54,800
Um what these are in case anybody
doesn't know are giant cell phone

1107
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:59,600
batteries for all intents and purposes.
Um they are used many times in

1108
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:04,960
conjunction with solar uh because
obviously solar is not working 24 hours.

1109
01:30:02,239 --> 01:30:11,520
Um they can also be standalone. I
represented one that was put in in North

1110
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:15,840
Huntington. Um so they are a distinct
use that may that can be associated with

1111
01:30:14,239 --> 01:30:21,520
solar or data but doesn't necessarily
have to be. and generally fits under

1112
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:25,360
similar regulations to what we see here
as far as decommissioning in particular.

1113
01:30:23,679 --> 01:30:29,920
Um because cell phone batteries, as you
may know, don't last forever and neither

1114
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:38,400
do these. Um
I do also I I I see there is a setback

1115
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:42,560
section for the residential solar. I it
just refers to the building uh to the

1116
01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:49,920
the building code, but it doesn't appear
to be in the um in the commercial solar

1117
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:54,080
energy. So, I think that might be an
oversight. Um but if you're going to

1118
01:30:52,159 --> 01:30:58,639
include it one, it should be in the
other. And then my my last question and

1119
01:30:56,239 --> 01:31:05,760
then I'll I'll stop. Um, in case I
missed it, for the solar facilities,

1120
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:11,600
um, is there a uh, limit on percentage
of lot coverage? You know, for instance,

1121
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:18,639
if the lot is 100 acres that you can,
you know, use 30%, 40%, 50%. Um,

1122
01:31:16,719 --> 01:31:24,080
there are a lot of solar ordinances do
that. And it may also maybe kind of

1123
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:27,760
another way of getting Jamie getting
Justin's question Jaime's question about

1124
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:32,639
uh landscape. You know, you're
essentially requiring that there be um a

1125
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:37,920
certain percentage of the land be, you
know, left undisturbed. Um and also kind

1126
01:31:36,159 --> 01:31:42,560
of push these then onto somewhat larger
lots

1127
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:47,920
um which would help with
the screening and and every everything

1128
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:54,320
else. If if it's a 30 acre plot on a 100
acre, that has a very different impact

1129
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:59,199
than 30 acres on a a 40acre parcel.
>> I I'm again quickly trying to search,

1130
01:31:56,639 --> 01:32:04,400
but it looks here as if um because it
doesn't contain any special lot coverage

1131
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:08,800
provisions. It goes back to the area and
bulk regulations of that district. Uh in

1132
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:13,360
the B district, the maximum lot coverage
is 75%.

1133
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:20,159
Uh maximum impervious surface coverage
is 80%. Um, so again, we can review this

1134
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:24,159
and be sure that that's accurate. Um,
but it looks like a data center, the way

1135
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:26,880
this is currently drafted, the data
center would have up to 75% lot

1136
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:30,320
coverage.
>> And I was I but I was specifically

1137
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:34,639
looking at the solar.
>> Oh, solar. Uh, I don't I don't know that

1138
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:38,960
that uh again that may go back to the
zoning district standards. I can uh try

1139
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:42,960
to look up as well. Yeah, as it's
written right now, I think it was

1140
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:46,400
intended to go back to the base zoning
district, but it's definitely something

1141
01:32:44,239 --> 01:32:51,920
we can look into.
>> Would the solar then be this if we if

1142
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:56,080
nothing changes, would that be the 75 or
the 80? Because solar panels are

1143
01:32:54,560 --> 01:33:00,639
impervious?
>> Yes, it's uh there there's a whole D

1144
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:03,840
manual on how to handle impervious
surface coverage.

1145
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:06,400
» I'm not up on that. So, [laughter]
>> it's um

1146
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:09,520
» they don't let you question between the
panels anymore.

1147
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:15,120
That was all. But that was that was
again I I don't think we're doing

1148
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:20,800
anything with this tonight. So there
that was just a a question that I had to

1149
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:23,360
» No, that no that's appreciated. Um I I
guess maybe before I interrupt council

1150
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:24,719
if there are any other feedback or
questions.

1151
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:29,840
» Nope.
>> Um certainly a few things to go over

1152
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:33,920
here. Um
it may be helpful to have some direction

1153
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:38,239
from council. I think we can look into
these items, try to gather some

1154
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:44,400
feedback, uh talk with the solicitor,
address any maybe legal questions. Um,

1155
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:49,120
as far as next steps, again, uh, I would
assume we're not advertising tonight.

1156
01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:53,679
That makes sense. Um, but that probably
wouldn't be ready even for a subsequent

1157
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:57,840
meeting. Um, we probably would have some
substantive changes to consider and may

1158
01:33:56,239 --> 01:34:02,560
have to kind of, you know, go back to
the beginning of the process as far as

1159
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:07,679
uh, adopting the zoning ordinance. So,
for purposes of next steps, um I guess I

1160
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:11,040
just maybe want to hear from council
what you're looking for from staff. Do

1161
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:14,159
you want us to just investigate some of
the items that were discussed tonight

1162
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:19,600
and bring that [snorts] back to council
for consideration? Do you want us to try

1163
01:34:16,239 --> 01:34:23,760
to take some of the that feedback and
build it out in any way as far as a

1164
01:34:21,679 --> 01:34:28,080
draft goes or kind of just, you know,
where where you want us to start to chip

1165
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:32,400
away at things? I I think it would be
help I just my opinion so anybody else

1166
01:34:30,639 --> 01:34:37,280
but to not have to go through this
process multiple times you know if I

1167
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:42,320
would s bring those items back to
council let council then maybe give the

1168
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:46,239
planning commission and staff more
direction

1169
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:49,600
um so that hopefully then you know they
and and you guys have you know clear

1170
01:34:48,159 --> 01:34:52,880
directions from council on what you'd
want to we'd want to see in a next

1171
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:56,960
ordinance. So ideally it's not we're
coming back up again and it's still not

1172
01:34:55,520 --> 01:35:00,239
there and we got to restart again.
>> Correct. That's I just don't want to be

1173
01:34:58,159 --> 01:35:04,080
redundant and kind of spin some wheels.
That's all.

1174
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:09,840
» No, I agree with that.
>> Uh side bill Matt anything.

1175
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:14,080
» No, I agree with Michael. I I think you
know just bring it back to the table

1176
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:19,040
once it go back and get everything
corrected and then we'll go from there.

1177
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:22,719
» Yeah, I think smart.
>> All right. Any other questions from

1178
01:35:20,639 --> 01:35:28,159
council?
Okay, that moves us on nothing under uh

1179
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:32,560
for workshop under public works and
parks. That moves us to our council

1180
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:38,800
action items. Uh nothing under
administration. That moves us to 14,

1181
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:45,120
which is community development. Uh can I
get a motion for 14A, please? Motion to

1182
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:50,400
approve SP-4-26
Kelsey building addition, a minor land

1183
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:57,120
development application for 414 square
foot addition to an existing business

1184
01:35:53,199 --> 01:36:03,159
0.218 acres 4225
Old William Pine Highway tax parcel

1185
01:36:00,159 --> 01:36:03,159
49-14-02-072

1186
01:36:06,639 --> 01:36:11,920
Bzon
>> second.

1187
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:16,719
Thank you, Darren and Jamie. Mike,
>> uh, yes, this is a minor land

1188
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:20,480
development application, uh, 2 acres.
Uh, it's in the B district. Um, the

1189
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:25,840
application was to allow for the
construction of a 414

1190
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:30,560
square ft building addition. Uh, the
building is currently 2,175

1191
01:36:28,480 --> 01:36:34,320
square ft. Under the Murray'sville
ordinance, any building additions

1192
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:39,760
greater than 10% require land
development approval from council. Uh

1193
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:45,360
there is no new imperous surface area
being created. Uh the addition will be

1194
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:49,280
on top of an existing imperous area. Uh
there's only one waiver that is being

1195
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:54,320
requested and that is to not install any
additional landscaping due to the

1196
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:58,480
narrowness of this parcel uh and how
it's situated. Uh the possibility any

1197
01:36:56,639 --> 01:37:04,239
additional landscaping may interfere
with uh existing utilities easements um

1198
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:08,080
or have a negative effect on site
distances have both entrances. Again,

1199
01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:13,679
this property is situated between Route
22 and the old highway. So, uh that is

1200
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:16,880
the only waiver being requested. Uh this
did go through the planning commission

1201
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:24,480
and receive a recommendation for
approval um as far a and including the

1202
01:37:21,119 --> 01:37:27,560
landscaping waiver as well.
>> All right.

1203
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:34,560
Any questions from council in regards to
this?

1204
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:37,760
» All right. All in favor? I
>> opposed.

1205
01:37:35,679 --> 01:37:41,119
» All right, that motion passes. That
moves us to 14B. Can I get a motion,

1206
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:45,600
please?
>> Motion to approve SP-5-26

1207
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:50,960
Coast and Main Building Addition, a
minor land development application for

1208
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:58,520
678 ft addition to an existing building
uh 1.138 acres, 442 William Penn

1209
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:58,520
Highway, tax parcel 49-14-3-81

1210
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:04,960
Bzoning district.
>> Second.

1211
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:09,920
Oh, all right. We'll go Michael and
Matt. Um,

1212
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:14,960
and uh
just for correction, that's the that tax

1213
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:18,480
parcel. It was 181 at the end. It said
081.

1214
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:24,800
» Um,
>> it is 081. It's 0181. Yeah.

1215
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:28,239
» No. Yeah, I know. But he said 081
instead of 0181. So, just the correction

1216
01:38:27,199 --> 01:38:32,159
there for that.
>> Nope. We're good. Uh, Mike. Uh, yes.

1217
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:38,880
pretty straightforward. This one is
similar to the last one. This is on

1218
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:43,920
route 22, 1.1 acre parcel. Uh they are
uh seeking uh this is in the B district.

1219
01:38:41,199 --> 01:38:49,760
Um they are seeking construction of a
678 square foot building addition.

1220
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:54,639
Again, this addition um falls under the
same provisions. Any u addition greater

1221
01:38:52,159 --> 01:38:59,600
than 10% uh requires land development
approval. Uh again, similar to the last

1222
01:38:57,199 --> 01:39:04,400
one, no new impervious area is being
created. uh because this addition is on

1223
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:08,800
top of existing impervious area. Uh and
planning commission did review this

1224
01:39:06,719 --> 01:39:13,280
matter and recommend approval to
council.

1225
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:18,603
» All right.
Any questions from council on this?

1226
01:39:16,239 --> 01:39:23,280
I know people are excited to eat there.
[laughter] Um all right. All in favor?

1227
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:28,880
» I opposed.
>> All right. That motion passes. Um, as

1228
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:34,400
far as 14C, I believe we're going to
table this item. Everyone in council is

1229
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:37,520
good with that if we table this for
further discussion down the road.

1230
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:40,080
» Motion to table.
>> Yep. Motion to table. Yep. Can I get a

1231
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:43,360
motion?
>> Second.

1232
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:45,199
» All right. Thank you, Bill and Matt. All
in favor?

1233
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:48,080
» I
>> I

1234
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:55,920
» opposed. All right. So, we're going to
table 14 C for now. And that moves us to

1235
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:59,440
engineering. Uh, can I get a motion for
15A, please?

1236
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:02,800
» Motion to approve the renewal of the
conservation partnership agreement

1237
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:06,400
between the West Morland Conservation
District and Murray'sville.

1238
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:10,159
» Second.
>> All right. Thank you, Jamie and Darren.

1239
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:14,400
Uh, Mike.
>> Uh, yes. This is a 5-year agreement. It

1240
01:40:12,480 --> 01:40:17,679
is up for renewal. Uh, Murray'sville
currently has an existing partnership

1241
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:22,080
agreement with the conservation
district. Uh they do provide plan review

1242
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:26,000
and inspection services for the various
construction projects uh throughout

1243
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:30,320
Murray'sville. Uh the conservation
district has applied for many growing

1244
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:34,320
greener grants for the municipality. Uh
they do not charge Murray'sville for

1245
01:40:32,159 --> 01:40:37,760
review and approval of plans sent to
them for municipal projects and the

1246
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:42,080
conservation district does keep
Mury'sville prised of all earthmoving

1247
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:46,000
activities or other projects within the
municipal boundaries that are seeking

1248
01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:52,880
approval through the the conservation
district. Um the engineer has reviewed

1249
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:58,800
this and um staff recommends approval uh
of the agreement. And just one minor

1250
01:40:55,520 --> 01:41:02,800
note that the um MS4 technical
assistance program costs Murray'sville

1251
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:05,840
approximately $5,000 per year. Part of
this funding includes a technical

1252
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:10,080
assistance program through the
conservation district as well. So uh

1253
01:41:08,480 --> 01:41:14,239
again, the engineer reviewed this and
recommends approval to continue uh our

1254
01:41:12,719 --> 01:41:19,679
partnership with the conservation
district.

1255
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:24,560
All right. Any questions from council in
regards to this? All in favor? I

1256
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:30,239
opposed.
>> All right. That motion passes. Uh

1257
01:41:27,679 --> 01:41:36,239
nothing under public works and parks. Uh
no old business. Uh no new business. Uh

1258
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:39,360
I do believe we are going to have an
executive session in regards to

1259
01:41:38,239 --> 01:41:45,280
litigation.
>> Uh it would be uh let me see what I have

1260
01:41:42,480 --> 01:41:49,679
written down here. uh be a legal issue.
>> Yeah, it would be a legal issue. Uh just

1261
01:41:47,679 --> 01:41:52,560
briefly, I'll try to not
>> All right. So, there is going to be an

1262
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:57,440
executive session after this, but there
will be no action coming out of that

1263
01:41:54,320 --> 01:42:02,320
executive session. Um and just before we
adjourn, the only thing I wanted to

1264
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:07,679
comment is just uh with this 25 years uh
coming up uh on 911, I just want to

1265
01:42:05,119 --> 01:42:11,280
thank our first responders and just
encourage I know the mayor had said uh

1266
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:15,280
that that we're going to have that
event. Uh please I encourage all the

1267
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:20,080
community to come out and support those
people. There's a lot of reflection on

1268
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:22,320
those that lost a lot of lives and uh we
certainly appreciate everything that

1269
01:42:21,440 --> 01:42:24,239
they've done.
>> Absolutely.

1270
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:25,840
» One more motion.
>> Motion to adjurnn.

1271
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:28,480
» Second.
>> All right. Thank you Jamie and Matt. All

1272
01:42:27,440 --> 01:42:35,159
in favor?
>> I opposed. All right. That adjourns.

1273
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:35,159
Thank you.