1 00:00:05,239 --> 00:00:07,259 [laughter] 2 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:14,719 Good morning everyone and welcome. Uh this the regular July 1 meeting of the 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:21,240 Nag Board of Commissioners is hereby call to order. If you will please first 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,240 join me in a few moments of silence. 5 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:35,480 And now if uh as you're able, if you'll please stand and join me in the pledge 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,480 of allegiance. 7 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:52,000 to the republic for which it stands. [clears throat] One nation under God, 8 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:56,385 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [cough] 9 00:00:54,365 --> 00:00:56,385 [clears throat] 10 00:01:00,879 --> 00:01:07,119 » Before we begin our work this morning, I want to recognize [clears throat] in the 11 00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:10,880 audience our former mayor Bob Mueller is with us this morning and former 12 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:12,479 commissioner Webb Fuller is also with us this morning. 13 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,760 » And Susie >> and Su I'm sorry. [laughter] 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,840 and former commissioner since you snuck in on me. Former commissioner Susie 15 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:24,400 Walters is also here. Welcome to all of you. Always glad to have you at our 16 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:28,425 meetings. Um the next item on our agenda is the 17 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:34,000 adoption of the agenda and we have a [clears throat] modification which will 18 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:40,640 be to move the 25-year recognition for Robera Thuman to the August 5 meeting. 19 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,720 So a motion to approve the amended agenda would be in order. 20 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,360 » So move. >> Second. I have a motion and a second. 21 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:50,720 All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Thank you. 22 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,960 » Uh that brings us to recognitions and we'll begin with our annual introduction 23 00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:59,600 of lifeguards and Chad. >> Hey, good morning everybody. Uh it's my 24 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:05,040 privilege to be here again this summer. Uh it's my 26th year working for uh Max 25 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:10,560 Ocean Rescue Lifeguard on the beaches here. Uh have our staff here. Uh we went 26 00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:17,840 through two training sessions, one in May and one in June to be uh fully 27 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:21,200 upstaffed by June 20th. And so uh without further ado, we'll bring these 28 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:26,160 guys up to the microphone and introduce themselves here uh one at a time. And 29 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:30,840 yeah, thank you for your time and thank you for your support of the 30 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,840 organization. Thank you. 31 00:02:30,959 --> 00:02:38,319 » Hello everybody. Uh my name is Ryar Gilbertson. 32 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:43,360 Hey Mr. Garmin. [laughter] This is my year four dags head and 33 00:02:41,786 --> 00:02:48,720 [clears throat] uh originally I'm from Arizona. Great state. 34 00:02:47,026 --> 00:02:52,640 [clears throat] >> Hey y'all. Uh my name is Jacob Gilbo. 35 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:57,160 I'm from Montreal, Canada, and this is my sixth summer with Nags Head. 36 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:06,077 » Hello, I am Michael. Uh this is my sixth year. I'm from Maryland. [laughter] 37 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:14,920 Hi, my name is Jacob Baitman. I come from Plymouth, North Carolina, and this 38 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,920 is my first year. 39 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:23,720 » Hello, my name is Anthony Ftado. I'm from South Florida, and this is my first 40 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,720 year. 41 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:30,912 » Hello, I'm uh Christopher Kelly. I'm originally from Northern Virginia, but 42 00:03:29,519 --> 00:03:32,932 this is also my first year. [clears throat] 43 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:41,640 I'm uh Lachlan Kerr from Australia and this is my first year. 44 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,640 » Cool. 45 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:50,519 » Hi. Uh I'm Bryce Luncher. Uh I'm from Arlington, Virginia and this is my first 46 00:03:47,519 --> 00:03:50,519 year. 47 00:03:50,799 --> 00:03:57,080 » Good morning. Mitchell Jackson, first year from Florida. 48 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:06,040 » Good morning. My name is Vinnie. This is my first year lifeguarding and I'm from 49 00:04:02,239 --> 00:04:06,040 Kittyok, North Carolina. 50 00:04:06,159 --> 00:04:13,400 » Hello, my name is Caleb Hooper from Wies. This is my fourth year with NASA 51 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,400 Ocean Rescue. 52 00:04:16,107 --> 00:04:20,239 [laughter] >> Hello, my name is Scendel Castle. I'm 53 00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:24,199 from Raleigh, North Carolina, and this is my third summer here. 54 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:32,483 » Hello, my name is Sophie Vancesy. I'm from Mano, North Carolina and this is my 55 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,960 fourth year here. [clears throat] 56 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:40,919 » Hi, I'm Rosie. I'm from Montreal, Canada, and this is going to be my 57 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,919 fourth summer working for Naget Ocean. 58 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:47,680 » Good morning. My name is Evan Hayes. I'm from Murphy'sboro, Tennessee. And this 59 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:51,440 is my first year with Nag. >> Hi, I'm Justine. I'm from Montreal, 60 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,240 Canada, and this is my first year with Nag Ocean Rescue. 61 00:04:55,759 --> 00:05:01,440 » Good morning. My name is Mila. I'm from Quebec as well and this is my 62 00:04:59,993 --> 00:05:04,680 [clears throat] first year with Naged Ocean Rescue. 63 00:05:05,199 --> 00:05:10,320 » Good morning. I'm from uh Quebec, Canada. My name is Victor and this is 64 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,639 going to be my second year with Naget Ocean Rescue. 65 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:22,479 » Morning. My name is Mason Linds. I'm from Kuruck, North Carolina, and this is 66 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:26,720 my fourth year with Naget Ocean Rescue. >> Good morning. Uh my name is Ronnie. It's 67 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:30,919 my second year with Nagit Ocean Rescue and I'm from Montreal, Canada. 68 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:40,120 » Hi, my name is No Vanam from Richmond, Virginia. This is my third season with 69 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,120 Nagide Ocean Rescue. 70 00:05:41,039 --> 00:05:48,840 » Hi, my name is Ta Neel Patterson. I'm also from Quebec, Canada, and this is my 71 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,840 first year. 72 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:59,080 » Hi, I'm Luke Leage. I'm from Kittyhawk, North Carolina. And this is my fourth 73 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,080 year with Knack Ocean Rescue. 74 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:05,600 » Hi, I'm Justine. I'm from Montreal and this is my second year with Naga Ocean 75 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:10,240 Rescue. >> Hi, I'm Arian and this is my second year 76 00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:16,000 working with Naga Ocean Rescue and I'm from Canada as well. 77 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:23,120 » Hi, my name is Florence. I'm from Quebec and it's my first year working for Nag. 78 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:27,109 Hi, my name is Rosali. I'm from Kick and this is my first year working as an 79 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,000 ocean. [clears throat] 80 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:33,440 » Hello, my name is Drew Baitman and this is my first year working for Nags at 81 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:36,440 Ocean Rescue. I'm from Plymouth, North Carolina. 82 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:45,319 » Hey y'all, my name is Jesse Baitman. I'm from Plymouth, North Carolina and this 83 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,319 is my first year at NXT Ocean Rescue. 84 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:52,054 » Hey, my name is Corbin Alt. I'm from Wesville, North Carolina. This is my 85 00:06:49,039 --> 00:06:52,054 first year as well. [clears throat] 86 00:06:52,880 --> 00:07:00,360 » Hello, I'm Jesse Hall. Uh, this is my second year with Nexo Ocean Rescue. I'm 87 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,360 from Murphy, North Carolina. 88 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:08,280 » Good morning. I'm Kenneth Little and I'm from San Diego, California. And this is 89 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,280 my first year ocean rescue. 90 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:15,880 » My name is Coleman Flynn. I've worked for the town for nine years. 91 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:24,400 Hey there, I'm Andy Simmerson. Uh, this is my 10th year with Nagad Ocean Rescue 92 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:27,840 and I live up in KDH. >> Good morning. My name is Sean Kenny. I 93 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:32,759 was born and raised in Nagad. Uh, this is my 16th year. 94 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,759 » Good. Awesome. 95 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,940 [applause] 96 00:07:38,505 --> 00:07:40,525 [applause] 97 00:07:41,919 --> 00:07:47,360 » Thank you guys again. appreciate the town and your commitment to the 98 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:53,039 organization and your support. >> Good. Well, welcome and be be in venue 99 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:58,479 to uh all of all of you, the first years, those who are returning from near 100 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:02,879 and far away. We appreciate what you do uh out there. You're the face of the 101 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:08,000 public on the beach for the town for the summer. Um and your job is challenging 102 00:08:05,599 --> 00:08:12,080 and we appreciate that and uh we wish you a safe uh healthy happy summer. 103 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:16,550 Thank you. Thanks. 104 00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:16,550 » Add a little [applause] 105 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:28,639 » add a little plug. We have our uh local competition series, our final uh final 106 00:08:25,919 --> 00:08:32,479 event tonight is in KDH and we got a tight race competition. So, anybody in 107 00:08:31,039 --> 00:08:36,719 the public wants to come out and see what these guys do. Um we're doing all 108 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:41,200 the rescue race events there tonight and it should be a fun uh a good show 109 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,360 tonight. So, seven o'clock Ocean Bay and KDH for for that tonight, 110 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,680 » right? >> Um, I'm gonna get all you guys. Start 111 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:51,120 with Sean. You'll file out the door and if I can get everybody to meet out front 112 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:54,480 on the ramp, we'll do a little staff photo out front with everybody before we 113 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:58,440 head out. Okay. All right. Thank you guys again. 114 00:08:55,279 --> 00:08:58,440 » Thank you. 115 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:15,959 » Hi. Thanks for coming. 116 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,959 » Not 15. Something stronger than 15. 117 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:24,016 » Please. >> Yeah. They get younger. 118 00:09:21,996 --> 00:09:24,016 [laughter] 119 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,480 » Bye. >> Been here for seven years. Get younger 120 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:33,320 every year. >> Mr. 121 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,320 Mr. 122 00:09:34,441 --> 00:09:40,240 [clears throat] >> Great. So, uh we will continue uh with 123 00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:43,240 introduction of a new employee and Nancy. 124 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:53,600 » Good morning, Mr. Mayor and Commissioners. I'd like to introduce 125 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:58,480 Matt Hennessik. Matt comes from us with comes to us with over 10 years of 126 00:09:55,839 --> 00:10:02,560 experience in water and wastewater. He worked in the water distribution for 127 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:07,200 Kildo. He worked in water distribution for 128 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:10,480 Curry Tuck County and with Dare County at the Sky Co water plant. 129 00:10:09,156 --> 00:10:15,040 [clears throat] He later transferred to Dare County's water and wastewater 130 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:19,920 plants in Stumpy Point. Matt lives in Man's Harbor with his wife Morgan. They 131 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:26,399 have two children, Ethan, 20, and Abigail, 13. He enjoys golfing, bowling, 132 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,320 and fishing in his spare time. And we're glad to have him. 133 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,792 » Thank you. >> Thank you. 134 00:10:30,772 --> 00:10:32,792 » [applause] 135 00:10:36,959 --> 00:10:40,279 » Welcome aboard. 136 00:10:47,802 --> 00:10:49,822 [clears throat] 137 00:10:54,720 --> 00:11:00,720 That brings us now to public comment and I'll turn this over to Mr. Lighty. 138 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,920 » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. At this time, the board of commissioners welcomes members 139 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:08,240 of the public to provide comment on matters of interest or concern to the 140 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:13,279 public. This is not an opportunity for dialogue and the board rarely responds 141 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:17,120 to uh public comment. But for anyone who wishes to address the board, this is 142 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:21,120 your chance to do so. if you'll please uh go to the podium and start by telling 143 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:26,839 us your name and where you live. Um and then I will let you know when your five 144 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,839 minutes is just about up. 145 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,839 » Good morning, mayor and commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to speak 146 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:43,440 to you today. I would like to My name is Susie Walters said 415 Race View Court. 147 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:48,320 Um, I would like to thank the town manager, Andy Garmin, and staff and the 148 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:53,200 board for working with the community to support our first amendment rights to 149 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:56,240 freedom of speech and assembly. The ordinance [clears throat] 150 00:11:54,000 --> 00:12:01,920 proposed today addresses these rights and responsibilities of all parties with 151 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:06,320 regard to safety and mutual respect. As always, communication is the key between 152 00:12:04,079 --> 00:12:11,920 those gathering and those protecting our community. I commend everyone involved. 153 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:17,360 I have one comment regarding the definition of spontaneous demonstration 154 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:22,240 in section 4.51. It states, "Spontaneous demonstration 155 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:26,079 means a demonstration that arises in immediate response to a recent 156 00:12:24,088 --> 00:12:30,480 [clears throat] unforeseen event that was not planned or organized in advance 157 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:34,959 of the event and that was not promoted or publicly advertised prior to the 158 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:40,000 occurrence of the demonstration. I find the last part of this definition 159 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:46,320 to be ambiguous and problematic. The deaths of Renee Good and Alex Prey 160 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:51,040 were unforeseen and shocked the nation. There was no local organized event. 161 00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:56,800 However, several gathered regarding the issue largely because people communicate 162 00:12:53,760 --> 00:13:04,000 via social media. Um, attempting to regulate speech on social media is not 163 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:08,800 possible by any one person or entity. I hope you'll look at this definition and 164 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:14,320 consider uh placing a period at the end of the word event to avoid subjectivity 165 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:20,320 potent and potential conflicts. Thank you for your uh dedication to preserve 166 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,800 our citizens rights while also serving and [clears throat] protecting our 167 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,279 community. >> Thank you, Miss Walters. 168 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:44,160 Good morning everyone. Uh my name is Skip Saunders. Um I live in Kittyhawk 169 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:53,680 for whatever worth that has in this room. Um I moved here uh in 1975 to 170 00:13:48,959 --> 00:14:00,000 Nag's Head uh explicitly to surf and so here I am. I'm still here. [laughter] 171 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:04,959 Um, what I have to say to the board and to everyone in this room, you do not 172 00:14:01,839 --> 00:14:11,839 need me to know this. And we all know what's going on in our 173 00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:18,800 country right now. The very reason that you're visiting your ordinances 174 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:22,240 regarding public demonstration has to do with something else. [snorts] 175 00:14:21,334 --> 00:14:28,160 [clears throat] And I I don't want anyone to forget 176 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:33,760 that. Um when I was about 11 or 12 years old, um I asked my father who was a 177 00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:37,519 career naval officer, there were a lot of things going on, 178 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:43,839 civil rights protest and all kinds of upheaval, social upheaval at that time. 179 00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:50,399 And he was a a career naval officer. I asked him, "How do you how do you 180 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:56,000 support the president or why do you or why not do you are you not supporting 181 00:14:52,639 --> 00:15:02,079 the president?" He was being quiet and he said, "Well, Skip, as an officer, the 182 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:07,440 officer corps in the military in the US takes an oath to support the office of 183 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:11,519 the president. We do not take an oath to support a person." 184 00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:17,600 And that's [clears throat] that was the moment that I actually started to 185 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:21,680 understand the nuance in politics and the things that were based on our 186 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:28,320 constitution. And so I'm here 187 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:34,399 to to do one thing and that's to remind all of us that we need to defend the 188 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,920 Constitution. I've served on public boards in Dare 189 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:44,399 County, on board of elections, on and and on the uh board of education. I've 190 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:49,040 taken the same oath that you've taken four times. 191 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:54,079 That oath meant something to me. I have direct line of ancestors who 192 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:59,120 lifted musketss and fought British, the battle of Camden, the battle of Guilford 193 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:04,160 Courthouse, and a 14-year-old fourth greatgrandfather 194 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:09,040 who served from age 14 to 18 in the Western Montgomery County Militia in 195 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:12,959 Maryland. And I'm not going to let those people down. 196 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:18,160 So, I'm here to remind you that you took an oath 197 00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:24,480 to our Constitution and the rights that it affords us both in law and our 198 00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:28,160 natural rights and how important those are because no matter what government 199 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:32,399 would come in the future in this country, we're going to have to invent 200 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:40,639 something that's going to be just like it. And so I'm really concerned pe 201 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:46,160 people in our community are fearful of their government. 202 00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:50,399 They're fe fearful to express their opinions. 203 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:55,920 And I've never seen anything like this in my life in the US. 204 00:16:53,120 --> 00:17:00,320 And local government is where everything starts. I'm a deep believer in that. And 205 00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:05,280 I love our community. That includes Nags Head, all the towns in our county. I 206 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:12,240 love living here. I have many friends in this room right now. And I hope that you 207 00:17:09,199 --> 00:17:16,720 all when you have your moment that you'll remember the Constitution 208 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:22,240 and you'll stand up for it because there's a lot of fear out there 209 00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:28,480 that people are folding up and we can't do that. We have to take a 210 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:32,400 stand. So that's basically all I have to say and I hope you understand 211 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,160 why I wanted to come out and say something like this. These ordinance 212 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:40,320 that you're discussing, the things that you're discussing and that you're 213 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:45,919 revisiting continues the enlightened tradition in Dare County and in our 214 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:50,880 towns of looking over what we're actually doing and trying so hard to 215 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:55,280 make it fair and safe for everybody involved. 216 00:17:52,400 --> 00:18:01,760 And I applaud that. you all are doing a great job and I think it's I think it's 217 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:05,360 a credit to the streak of fairness and everything that runs 218 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:09,120 through our county that we all are trying to do the best we can. We try to 219 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:13,360 look at what people's concerns are and we try to answer them. So, I just want 220 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:18,640 you to remember the reason that you're revisiting those ordinances. 221 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:23,120 And we wouldn't be dithering over ordinances right now if we had a 222 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:26,960 different person in the White House and we had a different government in the 223 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:32,880 White House and we had less people who would accept this. 224 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:38,480 But I don't want anybody to be confused that I will continue to stand up 225 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:42,000 and I'm not going to back down and I hope many of you are with us. Okay. 226 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:47,160 Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. 227 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,160 » Thank you, Mr. Saunders. 228 00:18:47,922 --> 00:18:49,942 [clears throat] 229 00:18:56,559 --> 00:19:04,240 » Good morning, mayor, commissioners, Mr. Garmin, Mr. lighting and members of the 230 00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:08,720 town staff. My name is Randy Cartwright. I've been a resident of Nags Head for 19 231 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:13,120 years and a resident of the Outer Banks for 52 years. 232 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:17,840 I first came before this board in February because I believe the town 233 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:23,200 could better balance the protection of public safety with the First Amendment 234 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:27,520 rights of peaceful demonstrators. Over the past months, I've had the 235 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:33,360 opportunity to work with Mr. Garmin through many emails, proposed revisions, 236 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:39,280 and discussions. I want to thank him, Mr. Lighty, the town staff, and the 237 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:46,320 board for the respect and consideration shown throughout that process. 238 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:50,559 The process itself has been a success. One of the most significant improvements 239 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:56,240 in that demonstrations are now recognized as fundamentally different 240 00:19:53,280 --> 00:20:00,960 from ordinary crowd gatherings. Rather than being regulated under the 241 00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:06,400 town's crowd gathering permit provisions, demonstrations now have 242 00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:11,679 their own permitting and notification system designed specifically for First 243 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:17,120 Amendment activities. Other important improvements include 244 00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:21,200 explicit recognition of spontaneous demonstrations, 245 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:25,280 recognition of good faith attendance estimates, 246 00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:29,679 stronger emphasis on First Amendment protections, and many clarifications 247 00:20:27,919 --> 00:20:36,240 that should make the ordinance easier for both citizens and law enforcement to 248 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:41,039 understand and apply. My personal preference has always been 249 00:20:38,159 --> 00:20:45,520 for an ordinance more like Chapel Hills because I believe simplicity promotes 250 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:49,600 both understanding and voluntary compliance. 251 00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:53,840 While this ordinance remains more detailed than I would have preferred, I 252 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:59,440 believe the work over the past five months has reflected a sincere effort to 253 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:03,760 balance public safety with the constitutional rights provided by the 254 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:09,360 First Amendment. I continue to have several concerns with 255 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:15,120 several provisions, including participant liability and the 10-foot 256 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:20,960 setback where no sidewalk exists. But I will not spend time on those this 257 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:25,679 morning. Instead, I want to mention two substantive revisions that were added to 258 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:30,960 the ordinance yesterday afternoon and that I have not had an adequate 259 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:36,559 opportunity to discuss. The first removes a proposed language 260 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:42,480 providing that an organizer would not be deemed in violation solely because 261 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:47,520 actual attendance exceeded a good faith attendance estimate. 262 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:53,360 Throughout this process, we have recognized that attendance estimates are 263 00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:58,320 just that, good faith estimates. I respectfully ask the board to consider 264 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:03,600 whether that protection should remain in the ordinance. 265 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:10,080 The second narrows the spontaneous demonstration provision by requiring 266 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:16,320 that a spontaneous demonstration arise without advanced coordination or notice 267 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:22,159 to potential participants. I am concerned that this language may 268 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:27,200 unintentionally limit the very type of spontaneous demonstration the ordinance 269 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:32,720 is intended to protect. because people ordinarily learn about 270 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:38,559 spontaneous demonstrations through communication with one another. 271 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:44,919 I appreciate Susie Walter's comments and I agree with her proposed revisions 272 00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:44,919 wholly. 273 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:56,400 The freedoms of speech and peaceful assembly are among our nation's oldest 274 00:22:53,760 --> 00:23:00,080 and most cherished constitutional traditions. 275 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:04,880 They deserve ordinances that protect public safety while respecting those 276 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:09,840 constitutional rights. I hope the collaborative process we have 277 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:15,520 experienced over the past five months will serve as a model for other 278 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:19,120 communities facing the same challenge. Finally, 279 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:24,400 this process has demonstrated something that is every bit as important as the 280 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:29,440 ordinance itself. It has shown that citizens and local government can work 281 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:34,080 together respectfully, listen to one another, and produce better public 282 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:39,520 policy than either could have produced alone. I think that is something 283 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,840 everyone involved can be proud of. I appreciate the opportunity to comment 284 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:48,080 this morning and I look forward to listening to the board's discussion 285 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:55,400 later today. Thank you. [clears throat] >> Thank you, Mr. Cartright. 286 00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:55,400 » Anybody else? Mr. Muller. 287 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,039 » All right. Well, at this time, we will conclude the public comment session. 288 00:24:06,911 --> 00:24:10,720 [clears throat] >> Thank you very much. Thank you to all of 289 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:15,520 our speakers this morning. Uh the next item on our agenda is the consent agenda 290 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:19,360 which you have before you with 12 items and a motion would be in order. 291 00:24:17,679 --> 00:24:22,080 » So move. >> I have a motion to approve. Is there a 292 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,440 second? >> Have a motion and a second. All in favor 293 00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:30,400 signify by saying I. >> I opposed. Thank [clears throat] you. 294 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:36,387 » Uh that brings us to reports and recommendations from the planning board 295 00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:39,716 and the planning director and Kelly. [snorts] 296 00:24:37,696 --> 00:24:39,716 » [clears throat] 297 00:24:52,159 --> 00:25:00,880 » Good morning, mayor and commissioners. Um, thank you so much. I will, um, run 298 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:05,760 through this report pretty quickly and as always, if you have any questions, 299 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:11,039 just let me know. Um the planning board met on June 16th and unanimously 300 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:17,039 recommended approval of a proposed text amendment related to um water dependent 301 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:22,880 recreational uses being allowed within commercial mixeduse developments. Um 302 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:28,880 there was some conversation regarding concerns such as parking um 303 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:34,559 traffic circulation, equipment storage, fueling um and compatibility with a 304 00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:38,559 shopping center in general. But um it was agreed that that would all be better 305 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:43,840 addressed through the special use permit process and not as part of the text 306 00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:49,919 amendment process. Um looking ahead to the July planning board meeting, um the 307 00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:54,960 planning board is expected to um discuss a proposed amendment related to um 308 00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:59,600 cottage court requirements. And I don't know if you recall, but we 309 00:25:57,679 --> 00:26:04,880 um the last time we talked about cottage courts, we created a graduated scale for 310 00:26:02,159 --> 00:26:10,880 the size of the cottage court, um stories, architectural design, etc. So, 311 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:16,480 it would be um not a change to that, but some flexibility in that. So, um that's 312 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:22,320 what they will hear at their upcoming meeting. As far as the board of 313 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:27,039 adjustment goes, um we did not have a meeting in June, but we do have one 314 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:31,840 coming up on July 9th and uh that's going to be an appeal from an 315 00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:36,640 administrative decision um that I made regarding a property on Pelican Street. 316 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:42,000 Um and so that will be going out to our board of adjustment members on Friday in 317 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:47,039 advance of our Thursday meeting. Um for the decentralized wastewater 318 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:51,760 management plan and the septic health advisory committee. Um staff continues 319 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:56,640 to make progress um with all of our initiatives that we have going on. Uh we 320 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:01,520 have updated some educational materials as you know the flyer. Uh we've also 321 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:05,919 redesigned an older septic magnet that we had which hopefully we'll have ready 322 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:10,000 for you at our next meeting. Um and we continue outreach through the Dowy Park 323 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:16,559 Farmers Market. Um and that has been really beneficial thus far. Um we just 324 00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:21,679 received our funding offer for the 0% interest DWI loan. So those targeted 325 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:27,679 letters will um start going out probably early next week. 326 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:31,520 Estran shoreline management plan. Um, we have our deputy planning director, Joe 327 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:39,120 Costello, giving a more detailed update on that um, following this conversation. 328 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:44,400 So, I won't go um, into that. Um, Dowy Park and our art and culture committee 329 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:49,760 um, summer programming at Dowy Park has exceeded expectations tremendously. 330 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:55,840 Paige continues to report that our um, May and June numbers have been like 331 00:27:51,679 --> 00:28:00,720 July. So, a lot of participation. Um, fitness classes continue to draw 332 00:27:57,679 --> 00:28:04,960 tremendous participation. Uh, family fun programs have all been well attended. 333 00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:09,840 The farmers market um remains very strong and our summer concert series has 334 00:28:07,679 --> 00:28:15,760 gotten off to a great start. We have a concert tonight which is Soul One. Um, 335 00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:22,720 and that's going to be at Dowy Park. Um I did I've mentioned this previously but 336 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:28,559 I wanted to kind of highlight and um give thanks to a couple of community 337 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:35,600 members. So Kate Jones um connected us with a grant opportunity with the um 338 00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:41,279 safe monarch program to help native pollinators be planted within the town. 339 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:45,760 Um Kate pointed that out to us and then we collaborated with Rachel Vil with 340 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:50,240 North Carolina Aquariums. Um she helped us get the grant. It's a $2,000 grant. 341 00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:55,919 Um they're currently growing those native plants over in Mano now. Um and 342 00:28:53,600 --> 00:29:00,880 come fall we will have an event where we plant those. And um this time next year 343 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:06,240 we should have a thriving pollinator garden out at Dowy Park. So wanted to 344 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:10,960 recognize those people and mention that. Um, and that's all I have unless you 345 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:16,000 have questions for me. >> Questions? 346 00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:17,039 » No questions. >> Thank you. 347 00:29:16,399 --> 00:29:20,279 » Thanks, Kelly. >> Thanks, Kelly. 348 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:28,520 » That brings us now to an update on the estine shoreline management plan. And 349 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,520 Joe 350 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,080 One moment. 351 00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:04,679 Okay. 352 00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:15,679 Hello. Good morning, mayor and commissioners. Um going to give a brief 353 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:19,039 update on the estuary and shoreline management plan progress. I'm going to 354 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,760 start south to north. I'm going to skip the Harvey site because I'm going to 355 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:29,919 talk more about that. Um the southern um most point that we're doing a project or 356 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:36,240 looking to start is the catfish farms um living shoreline. Uh water quality 357 00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:40,720 testing and SAV mapping has has begun. So we're beginning that preliminary data 358 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:46,399 collection process. Um [clears throat] and then skipping Harvey for now up to 359 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:51,200 Soundside Road. We have an initial um stakeholder meeting scheduled for 360 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:56,880 Tuesday, July 7th. um property owners have been notified and look forward to 361 00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:03,039 that. And then at the Villa Dunes Drive site um that's not um grant funded 362 00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:08,720 anymore, but just Monday night there was a initial stakeholder meeting um to get 363 00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:12,640 preliminary feedback on a new path forward. 364 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:17,520 So now to sort of delve more into the Harvey site, [snorts] um I thought it 365 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:23,520 would be helpful to sort of look at where we had begun with the design and 366 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:28,720 that is for you. This was sort of the initial design before we had any sort of 367 00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:34,240 real engagement with with the public or with the um user groups. And you can see 368 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:40,480 there's sort of a series of offshore breakwaters and um you know sort of 369 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:44,880 north of the gazebo and then they're in between the Harvey Sound access and the 370 00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:50,080 gazebo. That was what was presented and 371 00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:55,360 proposed. But once we talked with the users, they really said, you know, that 372 00:31:52,399 --> 00:32:01,200 little those two sort of skinny accesses that you kind of see drawn in the um 373 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:06,880 sort of um trivial pursuit piece shape and then that rectangle shape wasn't 374 00:32:03,919 --> 00:32:12,000 really um you know advantageous for users and and they requested that those 375 00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:16,720 offshore breakaters between the two um were removed. um especially for people 376 00:32:14,399 --> 00:32:21,200 who are learning to to um do water sports, you know, those were real 377 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:27,120 hazards. And so, you know, this is a markup that basically shows that input 378 00:32:24,159 --> 00:32:31,519 um maybe extending that marill tighter to the shoreline. 379 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:37,519 Um a further which which here is, you know, now a more concrete [snorts] 380 00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:42,559 drawing. Um and and this is actually where we landed. So you can kind of see 381 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:49,360 that sill was even further reduced um based on more feedback. And so what you 382 00:32:46,399 --> 00:32:53,679 have here is is a at the Harvey site the the most southern portion is a 383 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:58,720 renourished beach. Um camel won't let you do that unless you've historically 384 00:32:55,679 --> 00:33:03,760 had a sandy beach there. And so the the Google imagery um suggests that there 385 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:11,600 was um going back. So we'll see if they allow us to do that. But um proposing 386 00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:15,679 that new um sort of u um access that was built as part of the boardwalk process 387 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:21,519 to the Harvey access would be a renourished sandy beach. Then there 388 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:27,120 would be some marsh sills um that are about 9 ft wide and two feet tall there 389 00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:31,919 um that kind of wrap behind the gazebo. And then there's some offshore when I 390 00:33:30,159 --> 00:33:37,120 say offshore they're at right at about the twoft contour. So they're really um 391 00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:40,640 in a place that you know most I would say boers wouldn't want to be unless 392 00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:44,960 you're in like a skip or something. Um so we tried to be conscientious about 393 00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:51,679 how people are using the site and to design um to um provide protection to 394 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:58,399 the SAV and the shoreline but also support public use. 395 00:33:54,399 --> 00:34:02,880 And here is um sort of the side profile of the offshore breakaters as well as 396 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:10,560 the sill. And I don't know if you can see, but if you look I zoom in, but it 397 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:14,639 might get worse. Um, you see that MHW mean high water line. So most of this 398 00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:18,960 will be underwater. This whole structure won't sort of be sticking out, you know, 399 00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:23,040 if if if this kind of goes across. It'll look more, you know, just sort of like 400 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:28,560 the top. Um, and then the sills were are even um 401 00:34:26,399 --> 00:34:36,079 thinner. And so Whoops. And this is kind of the 402 00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:40,480 um artistic graphic showing that um hopefully how how the site functions 403 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:44,879 where we've sort of respected the um public access area that we're promoting 404 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:48,399 people to use and get to the sound and not trample through the marsh in and 405 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:54,079 around the boardwalk and you know provide a soft entry and some sandy 406 00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:59,760 beach there. Then you know some interior sills that protect further erosion back 407 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:06,640 behind the boardwalk of that marsh land. and then the larger offshore again 408 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:13,119 offshore at the twoft um contour there protecting the SAV and the marsh behind 409 00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:18,000 it. So I just thought that would be helpful to go over and then um where 410 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:22,720 we're at with this project right now. We've received back and forth comments 411 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:28,480 from DCM. We've had you know submitted our permit application. They needed um 412 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:32,720 additional um wetlands surveying. So, we resubmitted that. Um, now they've 413 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:37,920 requested a couple sort of additional changes to the plan set. So, we are 414 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:44,079 going back and forth with them. Um, and then we are looking to get a um 415 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:49,760 conservation easement recorded um in working with NCLWF. That's our grant 416 00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:57,200 source. They require a conservation easement um of a 50- foot buffer from 417 00:35:52,480 --> 00:36:00,400 that mean high waterland inward um to you know just to ensure that that marsh 418 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:05,440 is protected. That's sort of what they're investing in and um you know the 419 00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:11,040 the town has been sort of working with the tourism board and um NCLWF to make 420 00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:15,920 sure that the tourism board's interests are captured in that easement. So that 421 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:22,520 process is ongoing and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. 422 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,520 » Questions? 423 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,280 Andy, do you want to add anything to that? 424 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:31,839 » Yeah, I'd like to talk a little bit about the easement process. Um, you 425 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:36,800 know, obviously this is something that we we've been working on um with the 426 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:41,280 tourism board. um you know they've got some pretty specific interests in in 427 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:45,280 wanting to maintain certain rights to use the property and there was some 428 00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:51,200 concern about what the easement would do. Um you know going back to the the 429 00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:53,280 initial beginning of this project 430 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:58,320 [clears throat] um we had communicated with uh Lee 431 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,800 Nettles and Diane Bognich about the easement. we got a letter of support 432 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:06,640 from them um recognizing that we would need a conservation easement to be able 433 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:10,400 to use the land and water fund grant funds and so that was sort of 434 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:16,720 acknowledged them in the beginning of the process. Um and so uh the easement 435 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:21,440 is a requirement of the land and water fund. You know, it's not not something 436 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:25,440 the town is doing, you know, outside of that. We're we're not we don't have an 437 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:31,839 interest in doing that other than meeting the grant requirement. Um 438 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:36,640 so uh in good faith I think Joe and and Amy started working with the staff of 439 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:42,400 the land and water fund to explore you know how to get the easement process 440 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:47,280 completed and they engaged Robert Hobbs with Hornthal Riley Allison Mail John's 441 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:52,240 partner uh he has a lot of experience drafting easement especially with land 442 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:57,280 and water fund they they were working uh towards getting a draft document um that 443 00:37:55,359 --> 00:38:02,480 they could then present to the tourism board for their approval. Obviously, uh 444 00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:06,720 any easement that is recorded on this property would have to be approved by 445 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:12,320 the owners of the property being the tourism board and the town of Nags Head. 446 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:17,920 And so, um you know, at some point I think uh communication got a little 447 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:22,400 crossed up. You know, I think that they thought perhaps we were further along 448 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:30,560 than we were. Um I think they became concerned about um what we were doing. 449 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:36,720 Um since then we've communicated on um how we going we're going about trying to 450 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:42,640 settle the easement document itself. Um we've asked their attorney Jay Wheelis 451 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:47,760 to sort of take over the process of engaging land and water fund staff on 452 00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:52,720 determining what language both parties would accept. Um they have much more 453 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:57,599 specific uh things they want to see in the easement than I'd say the town does. 454 00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:01,839 And so that that's where it stands now. I think I think Jay Wheelis has 455 00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:06,560 communicated with uh the land and water fund staff several times as I think 456 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:11,599 Megan Bond has reported out and maybe you could speak to that. 457 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:15,520 » Um but um what I've heard is that there's optimism that they're going to 458 00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:20,079 be able to get something that everyone will accept and then the project can 459 00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:24,640 move forward. And so all these things are are happening simultaneously. 460 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:30,160 design, the permit application, the easement, all in in advance of hoping to 461 00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:36,160 get this thing out to bid and underway sometime this off season. So, that's our 462 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:41,280 goal. You know, this is something that was part of our shoreline plan from the 463 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:45,599 beginning. This was a pilot site and, you know, we wanted to work together 464 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:50,640 with the tourism board to come up with a way to protect this valuable asset in 465 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:55,040 Naget. It's public property. it's co-owned and it would be a perfect 466 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:59,920 demonstration project for the public to see and hopefully with it would 467 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:05,200 accomplish the goal of protecting the assets that they've invested there uh 468 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:09,520 and also providing an educational tool for the public. So, um, we're hopeful 469 00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:15,040 that we can we can work together to get all this done. And, um, you know, I 470 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:21,760 don't know if John could maybe weigh in a little bit on on what the process is 471 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:25,280 to, um, actually record an easement and then also some of the communications 472 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:31,440 that you're aware of between perhaps Robert and J. 473 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:35,200 » Uh, yes, Mr. um, Mr. Garmin, the um you know, one of the conditions of receiving 474 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,119 the grant will be placing the affected property under a conservation easement 475 00:40:37,359 --> 00:40:44,160 on terms that are satisfactory to the land and water fund. And I know that um 476 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:50,640 staff and Robert Hobbes have been working on a version of that. I think um 477 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:55,440 I'm looking at an email that um Robert had written earlier in which he said 478 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:59,760 that um he's reviewed the initial proposal and he he believes having 479 00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:04,480 worked with the land and water fund and its predecessor uh for a long time he 480 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,599 knows it's if you vary too far from their template without adequate 481 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,760 justification it's probably not going to be approved and so he's tried to stick 482 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:15,040 to their form as much as possible and he's tried to develop something along 483 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:18,720 those lines. I think he was working on something at the same time that Mr. 484 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:22,960 Wheelers was working on some a similar document for the tourism authority. Um, 485 00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:26,640 and I don't know that either of those two lawyers were aware that the other 486 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:32,240 was working on something at the same time. Um, and um, but Robert has done a 487 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,680 comparison of the two and um, I don't know that there's anything that's 488 00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:40,560 insurmountable, but I believe the idea is to come up with a a conservation 489 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:45,760 easement that is likely to be approved so that the grant can be provided. But 490 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,440 no easement is going to be effective unless it's signed by all the property 491 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,359 owners or the owners of the properties that are going to be affected by the 492 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:57,280 conservation easement. So I think that's still something that's in proh process. 493 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,119 I don't know I can't give you any estimate as to when that will be 494 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:05,520 completed. Um there's just a lot of moving parts to getting that completed. 495 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:11,200 But um that's basically what I I know about it. 496 00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:16,240 Before I call on Commissioner Vaughn um and her role as the designated U member 497 00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:19,920 of the visitors bureau, I I do have a question because we're talking about 498 00:42:17,839 --> 00:42:24,880 primarily about the easement that the visitors bureau would sign. There are 499 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:29,760 two there's one project and two pieces of property. Will there be two 500 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:32,800 potentially different easements or >> I would expect the easements to be the 501 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,960 same? I would expect that there there to be I I can't say there'll be one 502 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:40,160 easement on two properties, but that's a possibility. But there could be one 503 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,680 easement in identical terms on each property. Okay. 504 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,560 » As well. >> All right. Thank you for clearing that 505 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:49,119 up. Commissioner Ball, do you want >> uh I can report from the last um meeting 506 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:54,000 of the visitors bureau that it it does seem I think you use the term 507 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:59,040 optimistic. U Mr. Willis reported that um he was in contact several times with 508 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:02,640 the um land and water fund and that they were making progress. They had several 509 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:07,599 very specific um concerns. Um perpetuity was one of 510 00:43:05,839 --> 00:43:12,160 them and I think they felt really positive about being able to figure that 511 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,800 out. It's not going to go away, but they can they can do what they want moving 512 00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:19,839 forward. But there was four or five other uses that they were specifically 513 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:25,119 interested in that are not part of the template. This is my understanding of it 514 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:29,599 anyway. But Mr. Wheelis did report um in June that they were making good progress 515 00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:33,200 and that he had taken over the discussions regarding the easement. So 516 00:43:31,839 --> 00:43:35,920 they should, you know, they're they're working on it and should be able to come 517 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,400 up with something that everybody can >> Okay. 518 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:42,960 » you know, be satisfied with. >> Very good. 519 00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:48,400 » All right. So now, um board members, any questions of any of the parties? Um to 520 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:51,119 Joe, to the attorney, any questions? Commissioner, 521 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:54,880 » the the renourishment of the sand on this side was is that new in this 522 00:43:52,800 --> 00:44:00,800 project or have I just missed that? >> Um that's that's been a pretty constant 523 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:06,079 it's um shifted a little bit in that um based on the new wetlands survey I want 524 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:11,280 to say instead of 280 linear feet it's like 250. So there's been small 525 00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:15,359 adjustments but um the idea has has been consistent. Um I think from the 526 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:20,079 consultant's perspective there's you know just concern on whether or not it 527 00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:24,400 will will get through camera permitting but um it does sort of meet that initial 528 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:28,480 criteria of was there historically a sandy beach there and the Google imagery 529 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,560 um and historical imagery does back that up. 530 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:34,000 » Okay. >> Could I just say a few more things? I'm 531 00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:39,760 sorry. Sure. [laughter] Well, so we have been contacted recently 532 00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:47,280 by several users of the site with concerns about the uh design and what it 533 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:52,800 does to recreational use. And um as Joe mentioned, we had some engagement with 534 00:44:49,359 --> 00:44:55,920 those folks a few months ago and talked through some iterations of the design 535 00:44:54,079 --> 00:45:02,160 and came up with the design that Joe showed earlier. So, um, we've scheduled 536 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,520 a meeting with some of those folks tomorrow, 537 00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:07,920 » okay? >> And we plan to show them the design 538 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:11,359 changes that we made and hopefully get some additional input if they're still 539 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:14,160 concerned. We're not quite sure that they're they're aware of the final 540 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,720 design changes. >> Yes, I don't think so. 541 00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:21,280 » And so, what we're hoping is that that once they see this, you know, they'll 542 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:27,040 have more comfort with it, but obviously our goal is not to impede recreational 543 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:31,440 use of the site. And so, um, Once we have that meeting, you know, I'll sort 544 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:36,480 of report back on what we find out and see what we need to do. But we continue 545 00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:40,480 to be engaged with folks and want to come up with something that's useful for 546 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:45,440 protecting the shoreline, but also preserving what people are trying to do 547 00:45:42,319 --> 00:45:49,119 out there. So, >> thank you. 548 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:52,240 » Thank you. I think um I sure hope it all works out because I 549 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:57,440 know there's been a lot of work on both sides that you know trying to get this 550 00:45:54,079 --> 00:46:01,200 thing done. But I think you know I want to thank staff for working so hard with 551 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:04,480 the public once again because I think the new design is really nice and I 552 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:08,640 think it it'll really work out for everybody. It looks a lot more 553 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:12,240 recreational friendly than it did when it first started. So yeah, I appreciate 554 00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:15,839 all the work on that. Thank you. >> Yes, 555 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:19,200 » Commissioner Labor. Um, just echo what Commissioner Sanders said. I appreciate 556 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,480 all the staff's hard work. Um, definitely a lot of work has gone into 557 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:26,079 us, but after hearing from town manager Garmin and Commissioner Vaughn and our 558 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:30,000 town attorney, it sounds like that we are on the way to seeing this come to 559 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:37,359 pass. So, I appreciate all the work. >> Great. All right. Thank you very much. 560 00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:40,240 Thank you, Joe, Andy, John. Yes, sir. 561 00:46:39,502 --> 00:46:44,960 » [clears throat] >> Uh that brings us next to item G, old 562 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:50,640 business, uh tabled from previous meetings. And this will be a discussion 563 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:55,680 of the um crowd gathering activities and group demonstrations. And um I believe 564 00:46:52,880 --> 00:47:00,880 the manager and the um attorney are going to frame this discussion for us 565 00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:04,240 before we begin. >> Do our best. 566 00:47:03,082 --> 00:47:09,359 » [laughter] >> Um well, so you heard it public comment 567 00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:12,160 from several folks about the process we've been through and [clears throat] I 568 00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:16,800 just want to say I do appreciate the input that we've received and sort of 569 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:22,800 the back and forth. I think it's it's really been collaborative and respectful 570 00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:28,160 and certainly insightful. you know, you've got folks that are sort of the 571 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:31,520 users of of the ordinance and when you have that, they have a different 572 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:35,680 perspective on things and they can sort of drill down on on the little things 573 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,760 that we may not have thought about and that that's been evident in the process 574 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:44,160 and so I've appreciated a lot of the comments. It sort of helped me think 575 00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:48,640 about it and so I do think it's been valuable and I just wanted to say that. 576 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:55,359 Um but you know really what we're looking at today what we've got here are 577 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:59,359 are two um sort of parallel efforts. You know one would be looking at our group 578 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:04,400 demonstrations ordinance and those are the conversations I've I've been having 579 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:09,599 primarily with with Randy Cartwright and um we've got some changes there. We've 580 00:48:06,319 --> 00:48:16,319 also been discussing our crowd gathering ordinance with the staff and members of 581 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:22,800 the Dair County Tourism Board. And in May, uh, Mayor Cahoun, Commissioner 582 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:28,319 Vaughn, myself met with Lee Nettles and Diane Bognich, and also the chairman of 583 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:33,440 the tourism board, Dennis Robinson, and sort of went over some concerns about 584 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:38,480 the crowd gathering permit process and the ordinance that sort of resulted out 585 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:44,400 of the Roden Custom Festival permit process. And so one of the things that 586 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:48,720 uh we suggested in that meeting is that they provide us with some suggested 587 00:48:46,319 --> 00:48:53,760 changes to the ordinance that they would like to see to hopefully 588 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:58,720 resolve some of their concerns. And so they did provide some comments to us and 589 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,920 I've put those in the packet. And so that's a separate piece that involves 590 00:49:00,983 --> 00:49:06,319 [clears throat] the crowd gathering ordinance. It's really separate from the 591 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:11,599 group demonstrations ordinance. So, um, I'll just, uh, quickly talk about the 592 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:16,880 group demonstrations ordinance, and a lot of this is in your packet, but 593 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:21,440 as Mr. Cartright stated, you know, a a lot of this, we were looking at um, 594 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:26,880 trying to define what a spontaneous demonstration was and accounting for 595 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:33,200 that uh, in our ordinance. And, you know, we it's a very difficult thing to 596 00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:37,680 manage. Like, I mean, the, you know, the idea that you're going to have public 597 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,040 want to come out and speak and exercise their first amendment rights and how 598 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,240 we're going to react to these situations. It's creates a lot of 599 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:48,000 anxiety, >> you know, and and how how you're going 600 00:49:46,319 --> 00:49:52,640 to you can you can write an ordinance, but how you're going to deal with these 601 00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:57,760 situations effectively is extremely complicated. And and so, you know, we we 602 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:01,680 need to think about this ordinance carefully. We need we need to come up 603 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:07,280 with language that we feel like is going to sort of, I would say, on the rights 604 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:12,880 of speech but still provide the things the town needs to protect public safety. 605 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:18,480 And so, you know, I feel like we've come up with a good balance here. Um, but the 606 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:22,079 spontaneous demonstration, you know, that that is something we're trying to 607 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:26,880 acknowledge with the ordinance. You know, it's really difficult to define 608 00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:31,200 what is a spontaneous demonstration in my opinion. you know, and I think 609 00:50:29,359 --> 00:50:35,839 what one of the comments we received in the beginning in in public comment was 610 00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:41,119 about, you know, the publicly advertised or promoted piece. That's sort of what 611 00:50:38,079 --> 00:50:44,800 staff had had come up with to state what is sort of the line between what's a 612 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:48,880 spontaneous and not a spontaneous demonstration. 613 00:50:46,319 --> 00:50:53,119 And um I think that the comment we received was 614 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:58,960 that we wouldn't keep that piece in there. Um, but I I'm I'm not sure of 615 00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:04,079 another way to to make that distinction. And um, you know, that's that's one 616 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:08,800 thing I'll point out initially. Um, but beyond that, you know, we we're trying 617 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:12,720 to acknowledge that there there will be potentially u the need to have a 618 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:16,079 spontaneous demonstration due to unforeseen events. We've written 619 00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:20,480 something into the ordinance that deals with that. We we've stated in the 620 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:25,119 ordinance that we're going to try to be mindful of that that line and be 621 00:51:22,465 --> 00:51:30,160 [clears throat] accommodating. Um I think in most situations, you know, when 622 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:36,160 when there is a demonstration, the last thing we want to do is, you know, revoke 623 00:51:33,119 --> 00:51:40,720 a permit or, you know, tell people to disperse. That's a very difficult 624 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:44,559 situation to be in. So I think having something in the ordinance that 625 00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:48,319 acknowledges spontaneous demonstration helps us deal with that. 626 00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:55,359 Um the other big piece that we've come up with is previously 627 00:51:52,000 --> 00:52:00,800 um for groups of 30 or less that weren't required to get any permits from the 628 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:05,839 town for a demonstration. Um and then if 30 or more had to get a permit, we've 629 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:12,640 come up with an interim tier that says between 30 and 100, we would ask for a 630 00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:17,200 notification 48 hours. But you wouldn't have to provide or be wouldn't have to 631 00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:24,000 receive a permit from the town. We just want the notification and we feel like 632 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:27,760 that would cover a lot of um what we see in recent months where folks are 633 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:34,400 gathering and and protesting, but it's not really large groups. And so it 634 00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:39,119 provides another layer of u protection for the town to get some sort 635 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:45,440 of notification and to get the ability to react and have staff potentially 636 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:51,680 available to monitor the situation, but it's not as comprehensive or l lengthy 637 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:56,800 as a permit. So, I feel like that is sort of a good middle ground, provides 638 00:52:53,119 --> 00:53:01,520 another layer of um protecting speech, but also giving us what we need. Um 639 00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:06,000 beyond that, there's some other nuance things we've put into this ordinance. Um 640 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:12,480 as we've as was acknowledged in the beginning, 641 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:15,359 you know, there's a about the um good faith estimates. That's something I 642 00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:20,800 think we need to talk a little bit more about. I'll ask John to weigh in on that 643 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:25,760 in a minute. We we've come up with some different criteria for how far folks can 644 00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:31,359 be from the right of way from the edge of pavement and we went back and forth 645 00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:35,920 on this quite a bit. Um but I think what we settled on, at least from a staff 646 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:40,559 standpoint, is sort of mirroring some of the rules we've been dealing with with 647 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:46,240 DOT. When you're I go back to construct a sidewalk. Typically on on 158, you 648 00:53:44,319 --> 00:53:51,119 know, they're asking us to set back the sidewalk 10 feet from the edge of 649 00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:55,119 pavement when there's no curb. And that's to provide an adequate clear 650 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:59,012 space. And then if there's a curb, it's typically had to be four feet. I know 651 00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:02,480 Dave's looking at me right now. It's [laughter] had to be four feet from the 652 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:06,480 edge of pavement if there's a curb. And so, you know, using sort of that 653 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,880 standard, you know, that's sort of how they define what's a safe separation 654 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:14,800 from the roadway for pedestrians on the sidewalk. And so, we've tried to mirror 655 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:20,640 that in this ordinance when we're talking about 158 or 64 being on more of 656 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:25,920 a high-speed roadway. And then for the other town streets that are posted at 35 657 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:30,480 or less, you know, having a smaller separation of four feet. And one of the 658 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:34,240 concerns brought up was, you know, we didn't want the requirement to push 659 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:39,040 people onto private property and effectively, you know, eliminate the 660 00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:43,280 ability to have a demonstration. And given the rightway widths, you know, of 661 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:48,240 our higher speed roadways, which are pretty significant, we feel like this 662 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:52,960 this is a good compromise that, you know, addresses that concern. 663 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:58,240 Um, let's see. You know, we we had a 664 00:54:55,200 --> 00:55:02,640 provision in here about separation from commercial establishments and financial 665 00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:08,480 institutions. It was a 100 foot separation requirement. We've talked 666 00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:12,400 about reducing that to 50 ft and also putting an exception in that if you're 667 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:16,559 on a public sidewalk, which is I guess considered a traditional public forum, 668 00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:21,280 that you would always be allowed to demonstrate in those areas as long as 669 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:28,160 you didn't block access to a driveway or entrance. So, Another piece we added to 670 00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:35,520 the ordinance, um there is a a section that we added on 671 00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:39,200 the permit itself. Um previously for a large event, you had to get a crowd 672 00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:43,280 gathering permit and under the the section dealing with crowd gathering 673 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:47,119 permits. As the board knows, you know, some some of the language in there 674 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:51,520 requires a lot more information. And in this situation, what we've done 675 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:55,280 is we've created a separate permit for the group demonstration that that really 676 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:59,599 only requires the information necessary to deal with with that particular 677 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:03,760 activity. And I think it's it's more streamlined and more clear for someone 678 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,920 who's trying to read the ordinance to understand what the requirements are. So 679 00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:14,000 that's another change that's part of this. Um, finally, there's a new section 680 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:19,599 that we included regarding the revocation and appeal of permits. Um I 681 00:56:17,839 --> 00:56:23,520 think actually Mr. Cartwright had suggested some language which we largely 682 00:56:21,839 --> 00:56:27,440 adopted into this draft although I think John 683 00:56:25,839 --> 00:56:33,760 has some comments on this particular piece as well. And so um that's 684 00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:38,520 essentially an overview of of what we've done to the ordinance. Um, 685 00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:49,119 as as mentioned, John provided us with some additional comments um late last 686 00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:54,480 week and then provided a draft to me and I think I forwarded that to the 687 00:56:52,240 --> 00:57:00,079 commissioners or at least whenever with the board and I also forwarded it Mr. 688 00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:04,160 Cartright so he could see it and um I can bring that up on the screen real 689 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:08,964 quick if if John you'd like to go over some of that. 690 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:10,984 Just one second. [snorts] 691 00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:41,040 So I guess the first piece that John had noted was about the good faith 692 00:57:38,319 --> 00:57:45,599 attendance estimates and on the screen here are some of the suggestions. So 693 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:51,760 maybe you could go over that now. Yeah, if I may, uh, Mr. Mayor, uh, 694 00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:55,520 commissioners, Mr. Garmin, uh, the, you know, just as some background, we talked 695 00:57:53,200 --> 00:58:00,559 about this, uh, when we embarked on this process of revising the town's 696 00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:04,640 ordinances to allow for, um, a more clear uh, and cohesive group 697 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:07,200 demonstrations type of ordinance. the [clears throat] 698 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:12,480 town's not required to have such an ordinance, but without an ordinance, you 699 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:17,040 have no ability to provide any advanced controls or regulations, and you're left 700 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:24,319 with having to deal with public assemblies um and any public safety uh 701 00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:29,760 or disruptive effects from those that might occur after the toothpaste is out 702 00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:35,040 of the tube. And so the idea here is to try to um impose some regulations and 703 00:58:32,799 --> 00:58:39,839 controls uh that would allow the town to be, you know, um more confident in its 704 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:46,000 ability to properly manage and address what might happen in a demonstration um 705 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:51,680 or a large gathering of of folks. Um the you know I'll also say this it's it's a 706 00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:55,680 bit unusual for uh the town to uh get an opportunity to collaborate in developing 707 00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:59,680 this kind of ordinance with folks who are going to be uh engaged in activities 708 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:03,280 that will be subject to that ordinance. That's a great thing. It's great to have 709 00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:07,760 that kind of collaboration and partnership. But you have to develop the 710 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:11,760 ordinance with the idea in mind that some people you you you'll need to have 711 00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:14,720 controls and regulations in place for groups that don't want to collaborate 712 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:19,280 with the town and don't want to collaborate or cooperate with law 713 00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:23,920 enforcement. Uh and so, you know, taking that sort of pessimistic worst case 714 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:28,000 scenario approach is how we uh try to uh develop these kinds of ordinances. With 715 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:35,040 that in mind, I think what the what the town has um uh gotten to uh at this 716 00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:40,000 point is is a very workable ordinance that is contains less controls and less 717 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:44,000 uh restrictions than would be permissible under the first amendment 718 00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:48,079 and first amendment juristp prudence from our courts. Um one thing I think 719 00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:52,960 that's very important to keep in mind and and that is you know we're guided in 720 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:57,440 in in large part by the case law that uh has been developed in this area. There's 721 00:59:54,559 --> 01:00:01,680 a case from the from our our circuit court of appeals for the federal circuit 722 00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:06,720 involving the city of Charleston in which there was a small group exception 723 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:11,280 of 75 people that was upheld in that case. And I think in drafting this and 724 01:00:09,839 --> 01:00:15,119 in thinking about the kinds of things that have been upheld, I think it's 725 01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:19,200 important to keep in mind that Nags Head is not Charleston. You know, we don't 726 01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:22,000 have the same kind of law enforcement department. We don't have the same size. 727 01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:26,480 We don't have the same kind of population. We don't have the same kinds 728 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:30,240 of locations where these kinds of demonstrations can be held. Essentially, 729 01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:34,799 most of these demonstrations would be held in an area adjacent to the bypass, 730 01:00:32,319 --> 01:00:39,839 it seems to me. And that creates its own public safety concerns, I believe. Um, 731 01:00:37,599 --> 01:00:43,680 you know, you have that, you know, you have a town with a year-round population 732 01:00:41,359 --> 01:00:48,480 that's very small and that mushrooms in in the tourist season. I think those 733 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:53,040 factors all are worth thinking about as we think about the types of provisions 734 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:58,000 we have in the ordinance. So with all that in mind, um the the things that 735 01:00:55,119 --> 01:01:01,520 I've uh provided to sort of tweak the latest version of the ordinance, um 736 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:07,359 first dealing with the good faith estimates, I think that's I think it is 737 01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:11,040 important to um to provide that the applicant will provide an estimate that 738 01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:14,240 must be provided in good faith. We know that they can't always give you the 739 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:19,520 exact number. That's going to be very difficult. But I think it's also 740 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:22,480 incumbent on the organizer to act in good faith and to provide that estimate 741 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:26,640 in good faith. And I don't think we should create a presumption that any 742 01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:31,280 estimate that's given is provided in good faith because some folks may not be 743 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:36,559 acting in good faith. And so um not saying that about anybody who's been 744 01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:40,799 operating uh or engaging in assemblies under this ordinance or under the recent 745 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:44,559 ordinance this past year, but we have to be prepared for what might happen down 746 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:52,880 the road. So that's why we revised paragraph C as reflected there. Um 747 01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:56,400 spontaneous demonstrations again um the uh I I know that there's been a lot of 748 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:59,920 discussion about this provision. Our position is you don't have to have a 749 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:04,160 spontaneous demonstration provision explicitly contained in the ordinance, 750 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:10,079 but you have to allow for a small group exception um and something that may 751 01:02:06,799 --> 01:02:13,839 arise without advanced notification. But here it's it's actually codified in the 752 01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:18,079 ordinance which I think is fine. But we've simply you know clarified the 753 01:02:16,319 --> 01:02:22,240 definition of what is a spontaneous demonstration. And I think again you 754 01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:25,280 know Miss Commissioner Walters had a very good point. You know that the kinds 755 01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:29,359 of things we're talking about are those things that I think arise without anyone 756 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:34,240 anticipating them happening in advance. I can absolutely foresee a situation 757 01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:41,680 where there's a number of people who all at the same time are uh interested in 758 01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:46,480 and um um motivated by a recent event to go and assemble without any advanced 759 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:51,200 coordination any advanced planning and that needs to be permitted you know in 760 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:55,760 some fashion u but at the same time I think you know if if if we don't make it 761 01:02:54,319 --> 01:03:00,240 clear that it has to be something that's done without any advanced organization 762 01:02:57,359 --> 01:03:04,319 or planning it's pretty easy to provide some simple advanced planning and 763 01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:08,319 organization without giving the town notice of an assembly that might fall 764 01:03:06,319 --> 01:03:13,200 within the notice provisions and so or even into the uh one the the the the 765 01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:18,400 large crowd gathering. So I just think that tightening that definition is is 766 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:25,920 important. Um and I think I had one other or maybe two other provisions. 767 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:29,440 Yeah, the um oh the appeal process. So, um it is important that since the town 768 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:34,319 has a permitting process for what I'm going to call large groups, uh groups of 769 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:36,960 100 people or more. Um it's important that you have an appeal process so that 770 01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:40,240 if someone applies for a permit and they're denied, they have the ability to 771 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:45,119 challenge that. And I think there's an internal appeals process that can be 772 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:50,160 managed. But at the same time, uh as currently written, the ordinance would 773 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:53,920 allow for the event to go forward during the pendency of the appeal. And my view 774 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:58,559 is if you allow that, the appeal becomes moot. you know, you you you really need 775 01:03:55,839 --> 01:04:03,359 to not allow the matter to go forward pending the appeal. Um otherwise, 776 01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:08,720 there's no point in the appeal. Um and and but similarly, where a permit has 777 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:13,680 been um has been revoked during an ongoing demonstration, I think it is 778 01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:18,960 important that um you know that law enforcement be allowed to and expected 779 01:04:16,319 --> 01:04:26,079 to take um necessary steps to preserve public safety and welfare. uh that may 780 01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:29,839 but may not always uh allow them to um allow expressive activity to continue to 781 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:35,359 the greatest extent possible. So I don't think it's it's it's it's a good policy 782 01:04:33,359 --> 01:04:39,920 to guarantee that in the ordinances. So that's why I've stricken that last uh 783 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:45,599 phrase there um just above at the very end of section 4-57. 784 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:50,319 One of the things that John and I talked about with with this section is that, 785 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:54,319 you know, unlike the um crowd gathering ordinance where the appeal comes to the 786 01:04:52,000 --> 01:05:00,799 board of commissioners, this refers to the appeal being handled by staff and 787 01:04:57,599 --> 01:05:06,319 and it only applies to a permit and the permit is for groups of 100 or more and 788 01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:11,760 that that requires a 15-day uh notice. So John's point is that because it's an 789 01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:17,280 appeal to staff, it's most likely that we we would have the time to adjudicate 790 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:21,599 that matter, you know, before the date of the event, 791 01:05:18,799 --> 01:05:27,280 » you know, and so I think that's should should help with that concern is that, 792 01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:31,920 you know, we would we would make every effort to have the appeal and and render 793 01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,920 a decision before the actual date of the event. 794 01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:48,640 Thank you. That's I agree with that. And those are my my comments. I'll be glad 795 01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:52,079 to answer any questions though or to elaborate on anything you would like. 796 01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:57,359 » And I did I did want to I didn't go over the crowd gathering piece yet. And so 797 01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:04,880 whether the board wants me to cover that now or wait is up to up to you. Um I 798 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:12,000 think it seems to me it would be productive to have this conversation in 799 01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:17,839 two parts. Um and so why don't we rather than introduce that part at this point, 800 01:06:15,119 --> 01:06:21,200 let's deal with this uh the spontaneous demonstration part first. 801 01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:30,480 » Very good. >> And um and then go from there. Um, 802 01:06:26,799 --> 01:06:34,559 so commissioners, I'll start. Um, I started this end. I'll start here. 803 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:39,359 Commissioner Vaughn, do you have any thoughts about the language? 804 01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:44,400 » Well, I have a question and it's, you know, following up on um John's comments 805 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:50,000 recently about the and about comments made um by the public. 806 01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:55,359 Um while I understand the changes regarding um 807 01:06:53,440 --> 01:07:00,480 the um hang on a second I want to get my 808 01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:05,359 thoughts um the spontaneous demonstration and the 809 01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:10,880 need to def I think we have a there's a difference between this section where 810 01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:14,799 where you just made a change regarding you know how they're handled and then 811 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:19,520 the definition itself and I think you made the comment that Somebody was 812 01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:25,039 asking to delete the definition or to change the definition, but I think I'm 813 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:30,000 thinking that the the gray area here is the idea of how much promotion has been 814 01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:34,319 done. You know, that last sentence. I think Miss Walters recommended that we 815 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:38,400 just stop before that. And I guess maybe I think that would be worth us talking 816 01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:42,240 about. I'm not advocating either way, but that does get into a pretty 817 01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:47,119 subjective situation in in the definition that if we say it's not 818 01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:51,920 spontaneous, if somebody went on Facebook and said, "I'm out here, 819 01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:56,720 » you know, protesting or whatever exercising my right to free speech," is 820 01:07:53,839 --> 01:08:03,039 that does that make it sp, you know, no longer a spontaneous demonstration? 821 01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:08,079 So I sort of have that question comment >> and I and I pulled the definition up on 822 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:13,440 the screen and that that is that that's separate from the change that John had 823 01:08:10,559 --> 01:08:17,920 suggested. The definition is is up further in the ordinance. But you know I 824 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:22,960 think what Miss Walters said was she asked that a period be added after the 825 01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:27,279 word event. And so deleting that section about that was not promoted or publicly 826 01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:31,520 advertised prior to the occurrence of the demonstration. And Then I guess we 827 01:08:29,839 --> 01:08:36,239 just have to figure out like how would we how would we draw the line between 828 01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:40,080 what's a spontaneous demonstration and what's not. 829 01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:45,120 » It's worthy of talking about but you know that's kind of what we had come up 830 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:50,960 with to be able to do that. Um so >> yeah. Oh I understand. Can anybody weigh 831 01:08:48,239 --> 01:08:54,799 in on what we're thinking about like timewise? You know, there's a difference 832 01:08:53,040 --> 01:09:00,719 between obviously taking out ads and promoting something for a long period of 833 01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:05,759 time and again a group text message or you know social media goes off. I don't 834 01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:07,839 know if there was >> I mean 835 01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:10,239 » what anybody was thinking with regards to that. 836 01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:14,239 » Yeah. I mean, how do you see it? I mean, they they have to have some they're 837 01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:19,839 going to put something out with at least 24 to 48 hours and nobody's going to be 838 01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:22,319 there. So, I mean, it's I don't know. 839 01:09:20,719 --> 01:09:27,199 » Or maybe even less. I mean the way the definition is now any 840 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:31,040 » um public advertising or >> especially for a demonstration because I 841 01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:34,799 I would assume that not every single person there knows everyone's phone 842 01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:37,920 number. So they might be using Facebook or social media to communicate because 843 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,480 they're not >> right. 844 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:43,920 » So I mean I also understand that if somebody's, you know, going at this for 845 01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:50,480 days or weeks in advance, it's no longer a spontaneous demonstration. 846 01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:55,280 So I don't I don't know how to parse that but 847 01:09:53,440 --> 01:10:02,239 » well in my mind 848 01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:08,000 it's arising an in immediate response to an event 849 01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:14,080 is something in my mind that happens the same day. If it happens the next day 850 01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:21,360 after an event, that's not a spontaneous event. that a spontaneous event is one 851 01:10:17,199 --> 01:10:27,920 that that activates people to get up from their seats and essentially 852 01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:32,480 charge to the public plaza. Um, and which in our case means also getting in 853 01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:36,159 your car and driving somewhere, but but because we don't we're not configured 854 01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:40,560 because we're not configured that way. But it it is an immediate sort of 855 01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:48,719 visceral response to something that happened. And um and if it if it's any 856 01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:53,600 longer than that then you know it would suggest that there's some planning to 857 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:58,400 it. Uh and um you know I would not in this 858 01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:03,679 definition in that context of something that 859 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:09,199 happened immediately where people are on the move and begin to chatter among 860 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:14,880 themselves about where they're going and what they're doing. I would not I would 861 01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:22,080 not rate that as public advertising or planning um or or uh promotion. I would 862 01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:28,960 not rate that that chatter as promotion or advertising. Um you are in the course 863 01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:33,920 of the event at at that point. Um and I don't know if there's a way to clarify 864 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:38,080 that. I mean, I I'm not I'm not a lawyer, but I was sitting here thinking 865 01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:43,920 that um you know, if if you said immediate 866 01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:48,480 response to a recent or unforeseen event, semicolon, and everything after 867 01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:53,199 that goes together. It wasn't planned or organized in advance, was not proed, 868 01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:58,719 promoted, or advertised. All of that is one phrase. It's one, you 869 01:11:56,239 --> 01:12:03,280 know, it wasn't promoted, wasn't I mean, none, however you want to say that it 870 01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:09,280 wasn't planned, promoted, advertised in advance, that's one phrase together that 871 01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:12,880 sort of defines what is spontaneous. Kind of helps define spontaneous. 872 01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:17,520 Commissioner Lambert, I'm sorry. You want to know the only like in listening 873 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,840 to that that makes sense to me on its face, but then like well, 874 01:12:18,770 --> 01:12:23,600 [clears throat] when I think about any of the demonstrations, I don't think 875 01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:27,520 there's one that happened the same day probably. I mean, Mr. Cartrite might be 876 01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:30,800 able to speak to that, but >> I I just can't believe that any of those 877 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:34,640 did them the same day. So then that would mean by definition none of them 878 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:39,920 can be spontaneous or would be considered spontaneous. And 879 01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:44,400 I worry I mean a day's planning. If something happens today and if they're 880 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:48,239 not marching out there today, it's not spontaneous. That feels a little 881 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:52,480 » curb. Like what if they want to go out two days later? I'd still consider that. 882 01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,040 » But that's times they give you time to notify the tanks. 883 01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:57,120 the thing. >> That's true. 884 01:12:55,679 --> 01:12:59,679 » I mean, you know, >> well, if it's going to be a 885 01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:03,920 demonstration, you're going to have to have some time to 886 01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:07,360 » get everybody together or you're going to be out there with two or three 887 01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:10,560 people. It's not really going to be a demonstration. 888 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:14,719 » If I may, Mr. >> Yeah, it's hardly. 889 01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:18,960 » These are all great points. And to and to to follow up on what the mayor was 890 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:25,600 saying, I think you can parse this provision into several components. 891 01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:31,920 The definition is a demonstration that arises in immediate response 892 01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:37,040 to a recent or unforeseen event. Okay, those are all those are all three 893 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:41,520 different criteria. Um that uh it must not have been planned or organized in 894 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:46,480 advance of the event and it was not promoted or publicly advertised prior to 895 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:50,320 the occurrence of the demonstration. So you have all those criteria that must be 896 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:55,280 met in order to fall within this exception to the notice requirement, 897 01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,600 right? So this is not an exception to the permitting requirement. It's an 898 01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:00,960 exception to the notice requirement unless there's going to be more than 100 899 01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:08,560 people reasonably anticipated to be present. So you know I I see 900 01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:12,719 I see um the possibility for for a number of things to fall within this. 901 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:19,280 One of which is you have an individual or a small group of individuals, three 902 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:22,800 people gathered somewhere who are um who are, you know, by themselves 903 01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:26,480 demonstrating something they have. I mean, they just went out or something 904 01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:30,719 happens to them and people see it on social media and people decide to go and 905 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:34,239 protest what's just happened right then and there. That's spontaneous. I mean, 906 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:38,159 in my view, even they have to get in the car and drive out there, it's still 907 01:14:35,679 --> 01:14:41,760 spontaneous because it wasn't it was it was in response to a recent or infre 908 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:46,880 event. It wasn't planned or organized and it wasn't promoted. It just happens 909 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:50,800 organically, you know. So that is the kind of thing that I think falls within 910 01:14:48,239 --> 01:14:53,520 that as well as the idea that I'm sitting at home and I'm watching 911 01:14:52,159 --> 01:14:57,920 something on the news and I see something that happens that was not 912 01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:01,600 necessarily that day but it was recent and um it was unforeseen and I decide I 913 01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:04,480 want to go out and I want to make my voice heard about that particular matter 914 01:15:03,199 --> 01:15:08,320 and I show up and there's several other people doing the same thing. Again, 915 01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:12,080 that's a spontaneous um demonstration of my view. So you have 916 01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:15,600 and those aren't the only things but I think there's a variety of things that 917 01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:19,760 fall within this. So, I don't think this is too restrictive. I think it's just 918 01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:23,760 more about defining what is going to be exempted from any advanced notice 919 01:15:22,239 --> 01:15:30,520 requirement or permanent requirement. That's that's why I think this this 920 01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:30,520 works well the way it's drafted now. 921 01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:38,280 » Can we define immediate as the day of? >> Well, 922 01:15:41,199 --> 01:15:44,760 it's a tough one. 923 01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:54,239 say less than 48 hours. So it's under I mean it's there's a window we're trying 924 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:57,360 to fill here that's before they have to actually do the 925 01:15:55,840 --> 01:16:00,480 » but all it is is a notification requirement even still. Yeah. It's not a 926 01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:04,080 per >> I think that's what I'm understanding 927 01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:08,239 John to say. So it's not as if it's kicking in some big heavy duty 928 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:12,960 requirement just like give us a heads up if you think you're going to have 929 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:16,159 » if you have time to post it on Facebook. give us a call 930 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:19,280 » or send us email >> because that process is pretty simple 931 01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:24,239 now, right? >> It's designed to be 48 hours and just I 932 01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:29,679 mean I don't know if we would create a form or accept an email but it's just 933 01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:33,920 location number of people. >> It does solve the I mean not solve but 934 01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:37,199 there's the safety concern is making sure that our police are aware that this 935 01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:40,239 is going on and it's to keep the demonstrators safe. So, 936 01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:44,960 » right. >> And also, it's only we're only talking 937 01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:48,400 about more if it's less than 30 people who come out of their house 938 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:51,679 spontaneously, >> then it doesn't even apply to them 939 01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:55,360 because they can come anyway. It's like you don't have to have you don't have to 940 01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:57,920 give notice for less 30 or less. >> You can just go out of your home 941 01:16:56,560 --> 01:17:03,040 » for notice or permit, >> right? So it's really only if it was 942 01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:06,159 more than 30 people who spontaneously came out of their homes [laughter] in 943 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,880 response to >> and I think that's you have to provide 944 01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:12,960 for that because I do think that's conceivable but I think it's not going 945 01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:16,000 to be the common event but I think it's conceivable 946 01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:23,040 » but I mean so then at that point it's more than 30 less than 100 you have to 947 01:17:20,159 --> 01:17:29,679 notify us 48 hours ahead of time time place location who's the organizer um 948 01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:34,320 you know I Guess if something happens and you don't have 48 hours, you know, 949 01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:40,800 something happens, you want to go out tomorrow and do it. I would imagine best 950 01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:45,040 practice would be to just provide the same notice that you would have provided 951 01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:50,880 if you had 48 hours. >> We'll do our best. Yeah. I mean, I think 952 01:17:48,159 --> 01:17:54,880 that's kind of what it says. >> Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think our staff 953 01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:57,840 definitely needs notice, >> but I mean, you know, it's like, you 954 01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:02,320 know, what what you're trying to I guess 955 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:06,400 control is somebody wants to plan a big event and you know it's going to bring a 956 01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:10,880 lot of people it's going to require a lot of resources and then they don't 957 01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:15,280 apply for a permit and then they try to use the spontaneous you know definition 958 01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:19,040 a way to say they didn't need to do anything right 959 01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:24,719 » that's what we're trying to make sure it doesn't happen 960 01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:27,600 » yeah and we think this prevents that >> yes okay 961 01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:31,600 » I think so to the our ability. >> Yeah. 962 01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:34,600 » And and again to to John's point, you know, 963 01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:44,960 » people like Randy and others are going to do their best. 964 01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:50,080 » They're they're going to make their best effort. I mean, they're they're not 965 01:18:46,719 --> 01:18:53,760 going out there to make themselves and their friends and put themselves in an 966 01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:58,880 unsafe situation or do any of these other things that are unreasonable. The 967 01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:04,800 thing is that that's not everybody and we don't we don't 968 01:19:01,199 --> 01:19:10,719 um you know we just don't know. I mean it's all laws are for unreasonable 969 01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:14,320 people. I mean the only reason we have laws is because some people will not 970 01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:19,520 apply their common sense. >> That's true. and and um 971 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:23,920 and so that's why we have to have this and it and it you really I think you I 972 01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:27,840 think John's point is well taken that you have to be thinking about the 973 01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:33,920 unreasonable people as you read this think about what they may do. 974 01:19:31,199 --> 01:19:40,400 They they still have free speech rights even if they're unreasonable. But again, 975 01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:44,199 we have to have the opportunity to make that a safe situation. 976 01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:52,719 It's our responsibility to make it >> to make it a safe situation. I think the 977 01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:56,320 fact that we reference um response to a recent and unforeseen event is pretty 978 01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:59,040 clear, too. So, you just can't go out there and decide. You know, everybody 979 01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:02,000 knew this was coming. Now, we're going to say this was spontaneous. Right. 980 01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:06,640 » Um, >> you know, so that's pretty specific 981 01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:09,920 » and I think we would assume that >> everybody would use good judgment on 982 01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:13,199 deciding whether this is, you know, if it was yesterday something happened and 983 01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:18,320 people went out today, we're going to say, okay, that's immediate. 984 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:23,679 » That's why I think 24 hours or something that tight is probably difficult. But 985 01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:29,480 you're you're going to have somebody who is going to be out there protesting an 986 01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:29,480 event 987 01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:37,920 later than the standard and they're going to reference something within the 988 01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:41,600 time frame. They're going to say, "I'm not out here. I'm not out here 989 01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:45,360 protesting that event. I'm out here protesting what this commentator said 990 01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:51,120 six hours ago >> about that event. that that's why I'm 991 01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:56,360 here. You know, it just you can't foresee 992 01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:56,360 » right every circumstance. 993 01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:04,880 » So, so what is the >> and up on the screen? So, we talked 994 01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:10,480 about the definition of spontaneous demonstration and then this is the 995 01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:15,520 section um that sort of defines the rules and these are the changes that 996 01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:18,960 John made. Now, if you look at the first change, 997 01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:22,880 John has added without advanced coordination or notice of potential 998 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:27,120 participants. I think that really just aligns with the definition because the 999 01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:31,360 definition currently has that kind of language. And then the only other change 1000 01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:38,800 John suggested is remove this last sentence. I think what it implies in the 1001 01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:44,159 sentences before that is that, you know, you shall make a good faith effort to 1002 01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:47,840 notify us as soon as practicable. What that implies is that we're going to 1003 01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,640 be accommodating. And so, do we need to say it in the next 1004 01:21:49,679 --> 01:21:54,800 sentence that we're going to be accommodating? 1005 01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:59,840 And so, I think that was John's point is that while the town I'm sure the town 1006 01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:03,840 will try to be accommodating, that it's a matter of removing too much our 1007 01:22:02,239 --> 01:22:09,040 authority to deal with the situations that we may not want. 1008 01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:14,639 » Yeah. And I think on that point, I mean, I believe the town has a legal 1009 01:22:10,719 --> 01:22:18,400 obligation to not violate the rights of folks who engage in a demonstration, a 1010 01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:22,719 spontaneous demonstration pursuant to this ordinance. There are there are some 1011 01:22:20,719 --> 01:22:26,400 things that that law enforcement can do if matters get out of hand. But absent 1012 01:22:24,719 --> 01:22:30,159 that, there's very little that can be done. And so I don't I think all that 1013 01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:33,760 sentence that sentence I think imposes a duty that goes beyond the town's legal 1014 01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:40,880 duty. But the town has a legal duty as it is to essentially um allow this kind 1015 01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:45,920 of thing subject to controls necessary for public safety if public safety gets 1016 01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:50,639 implement uh gets implicated by the activity. 1017 01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:55,679 Just just to circle back, I mean, you know, from a broader view of where we 1018 01:22:53,280 --> 01:23:00,560 started, I mean, last year we had an ordinance that required a permit for any 1019 01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:05,280 any number of people, and it said 72 hours, and it was a 1020 01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:10,400 permit that you had to receive. Now, we have an ordinance that says 30 or less, 1021 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:15,679 no permit, up to 100, just notification, 48 hours, and then a permit above 100. a 1022 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:22,000 lot of the standards have been modified and so I feel like we have tried to come 1023 01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:25,920 up with something that recognizes all those things and then the spontaneous 1024 01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:30,800 demonstration piece is brand new. I mean the the process has has demonstrated 1025 01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:37,360 reasonleness. If you put that in there if you put a 1026 01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:41,840 reasonable effort an unreasonable person is going to come in and argue 1027 01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:45,840 » that your determination was not reasonable. It it g it gives you 1028 01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:49,120 something to argue about in terms of a measurement. [laughter] 1029 01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:52,159 » And if you you leave it out, >> right? 1030 01:23:49,679 --> 01:23:55,280 » You know, it's being reasonable >> as does good faith. But 1031 01:23:53,679 --> 01:23:58,280 » yeah, [laughter] that's another >> right. 1032 01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:07,280 » Okay. >> So, what is the board's pleasure on 1033 01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:15,360 these uh revisions? It sounds like we're basically leaving it as the markup. 1034 01:24:12,159 --> 01:24:21,199 Um well, one person I don't know who commented about the the line about 1035 01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:25,520 the organizer shall not be deemed in violation of this article solely because 1036 01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:31,360 actual attendance exceeds estimated attendance, but I don't know if that was 1037 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:36,560 Randy or Susie who brought that up. >> Um 1038 01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:42,880 » it was Randy. Yeah. Are we going to um 1039 01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:48,800 what what the violation if some if the attendance is more than we plan or than 1040 01:24:45,440 --> 01:24:52,800 the organizer planned? Are we holding that one person in 1041 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:57,520 violation and what does that violation entail? 1042 01:24:55,040 --> 01:25:02,320 » I think the the the violation is if they if they provide an estimate that's not 1043 01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:08,239 provided in good faith. That's where the violation occurs. So, as long as the um 1044 01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:12,480 uh where an estimate is required, as long as the applicant um provides an 1045 01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:16,719 estimate that they provide in good faith based on information reasonably 1046 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:20,960 available to them at the time the notice or application is submitted, they're 1047 01:25:18,639 --> 01:25:24,639 going to be fine. You know, it's only it's only when the town and I think it's 1048 01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:28,800 incumbent on the town if it's going to take some kind of enforcement action to 1049 01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:34,880 demonstrate that the estimate was not provided in good faith. But the way this 1050 01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:39,679 um last sentence reads, I just I feel like that imposes a further restriction 1051 01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:43,239 than the town should uh should should impose on itself. 1052 01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:49,679 » I think it's true. Just because the estimate exceeds or the number of 1053 01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:53,679 attendees exceeds the estimate doesn't mean it wasn't provided in good faith. 1054 01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:57,440 So long as the estimate was provided in good faith based upon information 1055 01:25:55,199 --> 01:25:59,760 reasonably available to the organizer at the time 1056 01:25:58,159 --> 01:26:00,719 » and the burden would be on the town. >> That's correct. 1057 01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:06,639 » Yeah. >> I mean I get I'm assuming this is sort 1058 01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:11,520 of an extreme situation where someone tells us there's going to be 50 people 1059 01:26:08,719 --> 01:26:14,719 and then they do all this promotion and there's 500 people. 1060 01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:18,080 » Okay. You see 500 comments from >> as opposed to, you know, someone who 1061 01:26:16,159 --> 01:26:22,000 organizes an event and says there's going to be 40 and there's 60, 1062 01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:25,679 » right? Yeah, my my biggest concern is the first sentence here where I think 1063 01:26:23,679 --> 01:26:30,719 that could be construed to mean whatever estimate is provided by the um organizer 1064 01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:33,840 is deemed to be in good faith and I don't think we should have that 1065 01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:38,760 presumption incorporated into the into the ordinance. 1066 01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:38,760 » Right. 1067 01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:45,520 » Okay. So, the violation would just be to shut the event down because there's too 1068 01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:50,400 many people that there were more. It could be, but that wouldn't I I 1069 01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:53,840 imagine the chief is going to say that they wouldn't necessarily shut something 1070 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:57,199 down just because they feel that they were not told the right number. I think 1071 01:26:55,840 --> 01:27:03,199 they would first look to see if they had trouble managing the situation um before 1072 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:06,080 they took that action. And I think I'm going to ask the chief a 1073 01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:10,000 question if I may. >> Sure. [laughter] 1074 01:27:08,159 --> 01:27:13,280 » But so the consequence you're saying would just be careful examination of the 1075 01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:17,840 next permit. >> Could be could also be, you know, some 1076 01:27:15,475 --> 01:27:21,679 [snorts] some Well, I think it's going to depend on what happens when there are 1077 01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:26,320 more people that show up than were estimated to be there. And again, in 1078 01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:29,440 some ways, I imagine the chief's law enforcement's position may be as long as 1079 01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:33,040 it's not creating a problem, we're not going to do anything about it. It's only 1080 01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,800 when a problem is created. That was my question. You have 1081 01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:38,080 » You just answered. >> What what what I mean talk talk to us a 1082 01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:42,159 little bit about the process that you'll have to go through when you when you 1083 01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:45,520 find a demonstration either that you weren't anticipating or that you were 1084 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:49,520 aware of, but it seems it seems to be different than you anticipated. 1085 01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:54,719 » I try to prepare for everything that goes on. Um public safety is my number 1086 01:27:51,679 --> 01:27:59,440 one concern. Um beside the fact of spontaneous and 1087 01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:06,400 stuff, um we've seen where people advertise 1088 01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:10,960 months, weeks in advance. Um and then if somebody 1089 01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:16,080 is advertising and there's where you only have to have a notification between 1090 01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:22,719 30 and 100. If they are expecting in good faith 75 people, 1091 01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:28,159 no problems. If they're expecting 75 and 50 show up. I'm not going out there to 1092 01:28:25,199 --> 01:28:33,360 just start shutting it down because more people could start showing up just 1093 01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:37,360 riding by and seeing the event and want to see what's going on. 1094 01:28:35,440 --> 01:28:41,760 » Um, but if that same person is advertising and there's 6,000 comments 1095 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:45,360 that we're coming, what can we bring? That's a whole different ballgame. Now, 1096 01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:49,280 does that mean I'm still going to go out there and just shut it down right then 1097 01:28:46,639 --> 01:28:52,719 and there? Absolutely not. I've got to figure out how much staff I have on 1098 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:56,239 hand. Can I do it? Is it going to cause more of an issue if we try to shut it 1099 01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:59,360 down than if we deal with it after the fact? Anything can be dealt with after 1100 01:28:58,239 --> 01:29:05,120 the fact that they've been in a violation. Um, we could still issue a a 1101 01:29:02,719 --> 01:29:10,480 citation or they'll get a warrant or anything if something has been violated 1102 01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:14,400 criminally after the fact instead of causing a more of a disturbance scene 1103 01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:18,960 right then and there on the side of the road. The First Amendment is very thin 1104 01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:22,960 line. We can make national news in a a split second with the First Amendment. 1105 01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:27,360 And also what people have to understand with the first amendment is just because 1106 01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:31,760 somebody has a different view from you doesn't mean that their rights get 1107 01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:37,600 violated when somebody comes out there as long as they're not doing anything 1108 01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:41,679 insightful creating retaliation or so forth. Um because they've got the 1109 01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:47,440 right to be there just as much as the the original people, especially in a 1110 01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:50,800 public place. Um so by no means would we just go shut something down because they 1111 01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:54,080 have 102 people. I'm not counting them. I've got better things to do than sit 1112 01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:57,920 there and count 102 people to see if they went over. Now, if they're 1113 01:29:55,679 --> 01:30:01,440 expecting there's 2,000 out there, we're going to probably reach out to the 1114 01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:05,760 organizer, just see what's going on, monitor it. Anytime that we know of an 1115 01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:12,320 event, I mean, we have two people that that hold protests regularly. They meet 1116 01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:16,880 with us. They fill out the permits. We sit down with them for afteractions. 1117 01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:20,159 They ask if we have any suggestions. Um, we give them suggestions. We talk it 1118 01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:24,960 out. we have a a very good working relationship with this group. 1119 01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:29,120 » Um so they're always looking to see what can be done better. Um any suggestions, 1120 01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:31,679 you know, parking becomes a big issue with everything, but that doesn't mean 1121 01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:35,679 we're going out there because when people park on other lots, that's not 1122 01:30:34,159 --> 01:30:39,920 for us to tow. That will be up to the business owner or the property owner 1123 01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:42,800 there to tow. Now, what we have done in the past is go out there and let the 1124 01:30:41,199 --> 01:30:46,800 protesters know that, hey, they don't want you parking here. They might tow 1125 01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:50,560 your vehicle. Now, they don't have choice. kind words for us during these 1126 01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:54,800 incidents because they think it's us, but we're there as a matter of the 1127 01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:58,080 property owner, etc. We're not looking for any conflict, confrontation, or 1128 01:30:56,719 --> 01:31:02,880 anything. I'm just trying to make sure that the people that are protesting are 1129 01:31:00,639 --> 01:31:08,239 are safe, the motoring public is safe, and then there's going to be no other 1130 01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:11,199 incidents going on that's going to create problems for the for the 1131 01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:14,639 department. >> Right. 1132 01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:19,600 » Hopefully that answered your question. >> Yes, sir. Thank you very much. 1133 01:31:16,480 --> 01:31:24,719 And if I may just very briefly I I appreciate you know the fact that we 1134 01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:28,040 have a a chief who thinks this way but >> it's also 1135 01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:38,719 you are you are framing what you do in the context of one responding to the 1136 01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:43,679 constitutional rights that the people have and two public [snorts] safety 1137 01:31:41,440 --> 01:31:48,880 which is your responsibility. any chief would be responsible for those 1138 01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:52,800 two things. I mean whether whether it's you as a very reasonable person or 1139 01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:57,440 whether it's anybody else, those responsibilities reside in the chief of 1140 01:31:55,360 --> 01:32:01,600 police. So okay, 1141 01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:05,280 » so you would not be make you would would not be on the spot ever making a 1142 01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:08,560 decision about what was done in good faith or not. I mean I hear you to say 1143 01:32:06,719 --> 01:32:11,920 that too. Like these things could be addressed after the event. 1144 01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:15,360 » That's my intention. I mean, you're not going to go out there and say 1145 01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:20,400 » if we had counterprotesters show up and and everybody is just have different 1146 01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:22,480 views, and we've had this recently. >> We can't make those people leave. 1147 01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:26,719 » No. >> Um because they're in a public space as 1148 01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:32,639 well. Um just because they have that different view doesn't mean that you 1149 01:32:28,719 --> 01:32:37,520 can't be here. Um, so if I don't want to do anything right then 1150 01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:42,639 and there, if they're there in each other trying to grab signs, that's 1151 01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:47,840 that's a violation. That can entice or incite violence. If you're sitting there 1152 01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:51,679 using vulgar language specifically addressed at someone, that could incite 1153 01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:57,920 violence. And then we have a disorderly conduct um violation that we could 1154 01:32:54,000 --> 01:33:03,520 remove that person. um if a large group shows up, we would monitor to see if we 1155 01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:07,679 would try to separate them. Now, our ordinance has an in place that if two 1156 01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:12,880 people apply, you know, at the same time, um then it gives the chief of 1157 01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:19,120 police the authority to regulate time and place equally to each each group. I 1158 01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:22,639 hope we don't ever get into that because that will be hard, you know, that will 1159 01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:27,600 be basically a nightmare. But if if other people come up and we see that 1160 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:31,760 it's going to get to a point that we could have issues, I'm going to ask the 1161 01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:36,320 other people, can we separate, y'all? Go to the other side of the street. But as 1162 01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:39,840 far as doing something right then and there, it's going to have to be some 1163 01:33:37,679 --> 01:33:44,159 sort of I mean, pretty good violation to to go on where somebody's getting ready 1164 01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:47,440 to to fight or you can tell that people I mean, 1165 01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:51,840 » you can tell you can read people and and know when something's getting ready to 1166 01:33:48,719 --> 01:33:54,560 happen. So, but we also have to be very >> very cautious when we're dealing with 1167 01:33:53,280 --> 01:34:00,639 the First Amendment. >> I don't want to be on the news. 1168 01:33:58,239 --> 01:34:06,159 » Don't. Thank you. >> Very good. And I'll just add to that the 1169 01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:13,280 um you know, the town has experienced and has seen situations where groups 1170 01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:18,400 come and they try to provoke action that's unlawful. And that's their their 1171 01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:22,239 mission. That's their raise on dete. and we have to be prepared through this kind 1172 01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:26,480 of an ordinance to address those kinds of things. That's why I think these 1173 01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:32,320 regulations are important. Um, but I think it's all about it's all about 1174 01:34:28,719 --> 01:34:38,960 regulation on the front end and good sense and good judgment in regulation 1175 01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:44,600 and um enforcing the ordinance on the other. 1176 01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:44,600 » Thank you. 1177 01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:48,639 I think this gives us a pretty good framework for that. 1178 01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:52,320 » It does. >> You know, 1179 01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:57,199 um, let me ask the board because this is not a public hearing and I'll ask John. 1180 01:34:54,639 --> 01:35:00,159 Um, I see that Randy would like to add something. Is the board amanable to 1181 01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:03,639 that? >> Okay, Randy. 1182 01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:19,440 » Thank you for that. But I recognize the privilege. Okay. Um, as you know, I'm 1183 01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:25,520 usually up here prepared remarks. I'm not very good on my feet, but I have to 1184 01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:31,840 be right now. So, excuse me if I say some wrong things, but 1185 01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:38,400 this whole process has been a complete process. And we've looked and it's like 1186 01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:43,840 the spontaneous demonstration section was a safety valve 1187 01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:52,159 for small demonstrations. We're not having any notice for 30 of others from 1188 01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:55,840 30 to to 100. We're having notification which is wonderful. You know, in one of 1189 01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:59,840 our earlier conversation, I said this is the model that I want. I want us to be 1190 01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:07,520 able to call up and say we're going to do this, you know, and um and then for 1191 01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:13,120 in our exper now, this is also specific to a town the size of Max's head. These 1192 01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:19,840 regulations wouldn't work in Charleston because 30 or 75 would be nothing. But 1193 01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:26,159 for our town, it works. And once we get to 100 1194 01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:31,040 um then the process that's been going on has been fine. You know they're 1195 01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:35,520 generally larger demonstrations that are organized in advance a lot of times in 1196 01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:39,840 connection with national demonstrations and there's plenty of time for the 1197 01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:44,560 organ. In fact I think we're going 15 days and you make a decision in 72 1198 01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:49,760 hours. Well most of the time I think they're talking to you six weeks in 1199 01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:54,639 advance. And so the only thing that left was when we had a situation like when 1200 01:36:52,159 --> 01:37:00,639 ICE killed two people within two weeks and people said we have to do something 1201 01:36:57,440 --> 01:37:06,719 and we can't wait for two weeks. That was where the spontaneous demonstration. 1202 01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:13,600 It's a safety valve that fits in with all of this. 1203 01:37:08,639 --> 01:37:20,239 And um I feel I I'm afraid that the combination of the restrictions on both 1204 01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:23,239 the um um 1205 01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:33,520 the good faith estimates combined with the um extra language on the spontaneous 1206 01:37:30,639 --> 01:37:38,000 de demonstration might unintentionally prevent these 1207 01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:43,600 spontaneous demonstrations that we're trying to protect 1208 01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:49,119 um the back to Suz's um and I think there's 1209 01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:55,040 one other issue. It's like what is spontaneous? I don't think spontaneous 1210 01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:58,880 is the same day. I think spontaneous I mean if you think about the way things 1211 01:37:56,719 --> 01:38:03,760 work I mean we're talking three or four days at least from the time something 1212 01:38:01,119 --> 01:38:09,360 happens to things really get rolling. Um, and I don't think you can just say 1213 01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:15,360 it's got to be that day or the next day because if it happens that afternoon, 1214 01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:19,280 you got to have time to get people together and want to do something about 1215 01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:24,320 it. And that brings me to the point about notification. I'm afraid that this 1216 01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:28,719 is overly broad. It's like in the definition, I think the 1217 01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:33,199 problem is spontaneous demonstration means a 1218 01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:38,320 demonstration that arises in immediate response to a recent or unforeseen event 1219 01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:43,840 that was not planned or organized in advance of the event. 1220 01:38:42,159 --> 01:38:48,560 And Susie said that's where we should put the period. And I think for a 1221 01:38:46,480 --> 01:38:53,679 definition that's perfect because the rest of it is what 1222 01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:59,040 makes it not work. that was not promoted or publicly advertised prior to the 1223 01:38:56,800 --> 01:39:04,480 occurrence of it doesn't say the event, it says a demonstration. So that means 1224 01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:09,280 between the time we have an event happen and a demonstration, we can't promote 1225 01:39:07,199 --> 01:39:13,360 that we're going to be out there demonstrating. I don't think that works 1226 01:39:12,159 --> 01:39:17,679 when we're not going to just spontaneously have a hundred people show 1227 01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:24,000 up here. People receive notice from talking to people, Facebook or whatever 1228 01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:28,159 it is. I I think that I think that that makes the definition clearer if you do 1229 01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:34,159 what she recommended and put the period there and then deal with the results of 1230 01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:38,719 it in the rest of it. Um, as far as the good faith estimates, 1231 01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:45,600 uh, it was mentioned that people like me, you're not going to have problems 1232 01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:49,119 with people like me follow rules. I'm a rule breaker if you want to know 1233 01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:55,280 the truth about it for other people I'm associated with and um these people look 1234 01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:59,840 at these rules and it just really puts a restriction on them when you say oh I 1235 01:39:57,440 --> 01:40:04,000 might get in trouble because I went over this estimate 1236 01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:08,000 and that's my feeling why they have to be 1237 01:40:06,239 --> 01:40:11,600 guaranteed that if it's a good faith estimate 1238 01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:16,480 they won't they won't have anything to worry about and then 1239 01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:26,000 you know as As far as trying to decide what spontaneous is, um I mean it's 1240 01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:31,920 difficult, but my main the period of time between an event and 1241 01:40:29,199 --> 01:40:36,800 the demonstration, I just don't see how you can restrict promotion of the 1242 01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:44,440 demonstration because if it's truly a spontaneous event, we don't have 15 days 1243 01:40:40,159 --> 01:40:44,440 to wait and try to get a permit. 1244 01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:53,280 So Randy, you're saying that you you need time to gather people together 1245 01:40:51,199 --> 01:40:58,800 for a spontaneous event. >> Yes. It's going to take I mean if if 1246 01:40:56,000 --> 01:41:02,800 something happens today, it's probably not going to happen for a couple of 1247 01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:06,639 days, tomorrow at the earliest. And somehow, you know, there there are 1248 01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:10,480 groups out there that we let people know what we're doing. And people that feel 1249 01:41:08,159 --> 01:41:14,320 the same way, but they don't know where to go. 1250 01:41:12,480 --> 01:41:18,239 And that's part of our freedom is the freedom to assemble. 1251 01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:22,080 » And the communication to get that freedom to assemble is also 1252 01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:25,119 guaranteed. >> So, but you would also have time to 1253 01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:27,840 notify if you're if you have time to notify 1254 01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:31,360 people to come together, then you would have time to notify the police. Just the 1255 01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:39,000 notification of what you're doing. >> Is isn't that still in the spontaneous 1256 01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:39,000 demonstration that we would notify? um 1257 01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:45,760 it that shall make good faith effort to notify the police chief or the designate 1258 01:41:43,679 --> 01:41:52,080 as soon as possible. >> So yeah, so that that short such cuts 1259 01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:57,440 the 48 hour for small groups or the 15-day application for a large group but 1260 01:41:55,760 --> 01:42:01,840 it gives a notification. >> Is it just the numbers that you're 1261 01:41:59,199 --> 01:42:05,199 because it it's under a hundred it would just a notification is fine for under 1262 01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:09,360 100. Are you saying that you want spontaneous to be more than 100? An 1263 01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:16,110 exception for more than 100? >> Well, in the um 30 to 100, we as it's 1264 01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:20,719 proposed, we would have to [clears throat] give 48 hour notice. 1265 01:42:18,159 --> 01:42:24,639 Well, with the spontaneous exception, we just would ignore notify you as soon as 1266 01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:26,080 pos. We may want to be out there the next day. 1267 01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:29,119 » Okay. >> And we we you know, if it happened 1268 01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:34,159 today, we want to be out there tomorrow. We don't and it may be a big enough deal 1269 01:42:31,440 --> 01:42:40,159 that's going to be more than 30 people. And it may be a big enough event that 1270 01:42:37,199 --> 01:42:44,440 we're going to have more than 100. >> Spontaneously. 1271 01:42:41,440 --> 01:42:44,440 » Yes. 1272 01:42:45,119 --> 01:42:52,920 And spontaneously meaning in three to four days possibly. 1273 01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:52,920 But my biggest 1274 01:42:53,760 --> 01:43:01,840 um I just don't like the idea that between 1275 01:42:59,679 --> 01:43:06,400 the time of the event and a demonstration there is language in there 1276 01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:10,040 says it can't be promoted that that makes it not spontaneous. 1277 01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:20,159 You know, it's like if it's if if somebody has planned an event and and an 1278 01:43:18,080 --> 01:43:24,080 event happens, another event happens. Yes, that's a 1279 01:43:22,480 --> 01:43:30,639 pre-planned event. Doesn't have anything to do with that. But in a situation when 1280 01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:35,920 it's a truly spontaneous event, we need a safety valve and we don't need to be 1281 01:43:33,440 --> 01:43:41,040 restricting whether people can promote it 1282 01:43:38,239 --> 01:43:45,800 with other people. And that's my difficulty with the language that was 1283 01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:45,800 added 1284 01:43:46,480 --> 01:43:52,239 » because like you say, you have to tell them a place to go and a time to be 1285 01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:54,080 there. >> Yeah. 1286 01:43:52,639 --> 01:43:56,480 » So you have to give them some sort of notification. 1287 01:43:54,719 --> 01:44:01,360 » That language is so broad that it sounds like if I get on Facebook and say, "Are 1288 01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:06,639 you mad about this happening? Show up at Dowy Park." Then that's not a 1289 01:44:03,679 --> 01:44:11,520 spontaneous event. >> What if we said less than seven days? 1290 01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:13,760 spontaneous. >> Well, then you have time to get a 48 1291 01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:15,840 hour permit. >> I know. 1292 01:44:14,480 --> 01:44:20,239 » Yeah. >> I mean, what it's almost like what I'm 1293 01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:24,080 hearing is that there are no spontaneous events 1294 01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:26,239 » that that all the events that the events are being planned 1295 01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:29,920 » to some degree >> to some degree. They're being planned, 1296 01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:31,679 » which means there's the opportunity for notification. 1297 01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:38,239 » Right. >> So, Mr. rate. Do you if you say 1298 01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:41,920 something happens and you want to have a spontaneous event, but it's going to 1299 01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:46,080 take you 3 days to plan and you know it could go over 100, do you have a 1300 01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:51,800 problem? Is it do you not want to have to do a permit then and you'd prefer to 1301 01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:51,800 be able to do it under the notice? 1302 01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:58,320 I'm trying to figure out what the Well, it seems like 1303 01:44:54,480 --> 01:45:04,080 » I I think the two the two areas that the spontaneous exception cover are when you 1304 01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:11,480 want to be out there with a crowd greater than 30 people, less than 100, 1305 01:45:07,119 --> 01:45:11,480 but you don't have 48 hours. 1306 01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:19,040 » That That's the first one. And the second one is when you've got a really 1307 01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:24,960 big crowd over a hundred that would normally take you a 15-day in advance 1308 01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:28,600 permit. You can't do that. 1309 01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:34,719 » So the concern is twofold is you might want to have a semi-spontaneous 1310 01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:41,040 demonstration that could be over a hundred and it's just not possible 1311 01:45:38,159 --> 01:45:45,520 » with the 15day permit. >> Is that say it again? The concern is if 1312 01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:48,800 you do want to have over a hundred, the 15 day is also restricting. 1313 01:45:48,239 --> 01:45:50,320 » Yes. >> Yeah. 1314 01:45:49,440 --> 01:45:55,360 » Yes. >> Okay. That's separate. 1315 01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:57,760 » But our our concern has to be the response. 1316 01:45:56,719 --> 01:46:00,880 » You know, what kind of >> for safety, 1317 01:45:58,639 --> 01:46:03,920 » right? Safety response. We're able to, you know, 1318 01:46:01,679 --> 01:46:08,480 » right? Obviously, I think we all hope it in a way we hope it doesn't happen, but 1319 01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:14,239 we in a town this size, as you were saying, we have to we have to be poised 1320 01:46:11,679 --> 01:46:19,773 to respond to something that large and doing so with no information would be 1321 01:46:16,239 --> 01:46:21,840 really difficult, right, Chief? [laughter] 1322 01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:25,480 » Yeah. I mean, I just think >> I look at spontaneous. 1323 01:46:26,080 --> 01:46:32,320 » Spontaneous is an impulse. If the power went out today and Dominion Power cut 1324 01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:34,800 the power out to the whole outer base and everybody gets mad and wants to go 1325 01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:39,280 out there and yell on the side of the street and they start Facebooking 1326 01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:44,400 everybody, that's spontaneous. If Nagad had a soccer team and we won 1327 01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:47,679 the World Cup, everybody goes out there to celebrate. That's spontaneous. But 1328 01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:51,280 when I get out there, I can be like, "Man, we're out here celebrating 1329 01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:55,760 » or we're out here protesting that Dominion cut the power off. Come join 1330 01:46:53,440 --> 01:47:01,440 us." That's still spontaneous because I'm right then and there. Mhm. 1331 01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:04,480 » When I advertise to meet me in three or four days, that's not spontaneous. 1332 01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:07,480 » That's not a spontaneous event, >> right? 1333 01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:16,759 » I'm afraid that it would negate our ordinance if we said you had three or 1334 01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:20,000 four days. I mean, who people could say [clears throat] that event was 1335 01:47:17,440 --> 01:47:23,000 spontaneous when it was planned? >> Planned. 1336 01:47:28,719 --> 01:47:35,360 But I want to allow for spontaneous events because I I do that. 1337 01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:39,440 » I mean, ever since we've started working this, we've never restricted spontaneous 1338 01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:44,800 » demonstrations, protests, whatever you want to call them. Um, now we've never 1339 01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:51,199 had them like we have them today, but to me spontaneous being an impulse is if 1340 01:47:49,679 --> 01:47:55,280 I decide to go out there right now and start doing it and I start texting my 1341 01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:59,920 friends I'm out here, that's spontaneous. 1342 01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:05,440 If I tell you, you know, Sunday, let's go out there at Audi Park and stand on 1343 01:48:03,119 --> 01:48:11,920 side road with signs, that's not spontaneous. If I've got time to get 1344 01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:17,119 some people together, I've got time to send an email or make a phone call to 1345 01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:20,719 let somebody know what's going on because public safety is my number one, 1346 01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:27,040 » right? >> I mean, if something is going on, I've 1347 01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:33,840 always looked at any event in town that we don't pull from our duty crew. 1348 01:48:31,679 --> 01:48:39,280 So if something is going on and there are 200 people out there that did not 1349 01:48:35,679 --> 01:48:43,679 want to let us know and say they have counterprotesters, they have something 1350 01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:48,960 else, an issue to come up and I've got my duty crew working rerecks, working 1351 01:48:46,719 --> 01:48:51,360 laries, working domestics, guess what they're doing? They're going to have to 1352 01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:57,040 sit there and deal with themselves until we clear up. With these events, I 1353 01:48:54,560 --> 01:49:02,719 personally am out there. I bring two or three extra officers out 1354 01:48:59,920 --> 01:49:06,159 and when I have to tell them the day before, I might not have nobody out 1355 01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:11,679 there. But when we know in advance, the group 1356 01:49:09,119 --> 01:49:17,360 that we meet with, they put 700 people on their demonstration permit. They had 1357 01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:21,840 70. But because of they were expecting it, I knew in advance and we sat down 1358 01:49:19,199 --> 01:49:26,239 and met with them over this. I had three officers come out there along with 1359 01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:28,560 myself. So we're we're not sitting in the middle of them. We're sitting in 1360 01:49:27,440 --> 01:49:32,080 parking lots watching to make sure nobody's riding by throwing bottles at 1361 01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:38,480 them to make sure that nobody's doing anything. And if we see violations, we 1362 01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:44,560 deal with it. I can't have my duty crew taken away from the rest of the town 1363 01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:48,000 » to go sit and monitor an event. >> If we know of a smaller one and they 1364 01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:50,880 call up and say, "Hey, we might have 30 people out there. We might have 15 1365 01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:54,719 people." Now, will I tell my duty crew to monitor it if something happens? You 1366 01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:58,400 know, call me and let me know. That's something that they can ride by on 1367 01:49:56,080 --> 01:50:02,320 normal patrols. But when you start getting into large numbers, that's what 1368 01:49:59,920 --> 01:50:06,080 I worry with that it doesn't take but an instant for somebody to change their air 1369 01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:10,000 conditioner radio to look down and then they I mean people can't drive down here 1370 01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:15,920 anyway and then they run off the road. Um so we have to look at it as a whole. 1371 01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:20,880 And if we have a large crowd on the side of the the the bypass, that's going to 1372 01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:24,159 cause a distraction no matter what view you have because you're going to want 1373 01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:27,600 human natures to look to see what's going on. 1374 01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:30,960 » Even with things at the event site where we're down there, you know, directing 1375 01:50:29,280 --> 01:50:37,360 traffic, people look to see what's going on. 1376 01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:41,679 » So, I try to be prepared for everything. >> Thank you. 1377 01:50:38,719 --> 01:50:48,159 » Okay. Thank Are there any immediate questions for the chief or anybody else 1378 01:50:44,719 --> 01:50:53,280 here? I I want to make a suggestion if I may and that [snorts] would be um that 1379 01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:57,280 we take a fivem minute recess >> uh that we then come back and talk about 1380 01:50:55,520 --> 01:51:01,600 the other part of the ordinance that we need to deal with. Let our subconscious 1381 01:50:59,119 --> 01:51:04,880 minds chew on this a little bit and then circle back to this and maybe uh be 1382 01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:11,119 prepared to >> Thank you. uh make a motion um at that 1383 01:51:07,760 --> 01:51:16,800 point or to to do whatever it is to is the is the board's pleasure. Um so I'm 1384 01:51:14,159 --> 01:51:22,440 going to uh call for the board to be in a 5 to 10 minute recess. 1385 01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:22,440 » Okay. 1386 01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:32,320 Right. The board's returned from its break. Um, are we still of a mind to uh 1387 01:51:30,719 --> 01:51:39,199 go to the other part of the language we need to deal with and then circle back? 1388 01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:43,360 » Okay, then. Um, Andy, remind us of what what we're looking at in this other uh 1389 01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:47,920 little piece of the language. This is section 1390 01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:50,480 413, I think we were going to talk about. 1391 01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:56,719 » Well, let me um let me go through this real quick. And so as I mentioned in the 1392 01:51:53,760 --> 01:52:01,360 beginning of the presentation, we did have a meeting with the tourism board 1393 01:51:59,199 --> 01:52:08,320 representatives talk about the crowd gathering permit process and u we asked 1394 01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:13,520 them to send us some suggestions for alleviating their concerns regarding uh 1395 01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:17,920 the ordinance. And so they sent those to us and essentially what is reflected in 1396 01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:23,440 what you received in your packet is what they provided. And in in the first 1397 01:52:20,719 --> 01:52:28,560 section, section 4-2, uh as you can see, their biggest concern 1398 01:52:25,679 --> 01:52:37,119 was um the fact that the ordinance says nobody can advertise an event until a 1399 01:52:31,679 --> 01:52:42,400 permit is received or issued. And so, um in a practical sense, that never 1400 01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:45,840 happens. you know, most of their events are large and they're planned a year 1401 01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:50,000 ahead of time and most of the permits aren't issued until, you know, 30 days 1402 01:52:48,719 --> 01:52:54,800 ahead of the event or something like that. So, it's really never been 1403 01:52:52,400 --> 01:52:59,760 enforced to be honest with you. Um, and I'm not sure the the legality or the 1404 01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:06,320 practicality of being able to enforce that. And so, we don't necessarily have 1405 01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:11,520 an issue with removing that language. Um in the second piece section 4-7 1406 01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:18,480 um they talk about it talks about review of the application and they were sort of 1407 01:53:14,159 --> 01:53:22,159 concerned about um it said that um any deviation from the terms and conditions 1408 01:53:20,239 --> 01:53:28,880 of the permit um or misstatement of fact uh 1409 01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:34,639 shall be grounds for immediate re revocation at any time by the town 1410 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:38,960 manager. And I think that that just gave them a little bit of heartburn that it 1411 01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:44,480 forced us to revoke the permit and removed our our discretion there to make 1412 01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:48,400 a decision um based on the circumstances. So we don't have a 1413 01:53:47,119 --> 01:53:53,360 problem with this language where they just change shall to may and then remove 1414 01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:56,880 the word at any time. Seems to make sense. Mhm. 1415 01:53:54,719 --> 01:54:02,080 » Um the biggest piece that they provided to us was the idea that we would create 1416 01:53:58,960 --> 01:54:06,639 a new step in the process. Essentially a conditional approval for events at the 1417 01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:12,320 event site. And right now we have a crowd gathering permit we issue and it's 1418 01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:17,440 based on tiers. And the really large events they have to apply for the permit 1419 01:54:14,560 --> 01:54:20,800 90 days in advance of the event. But the ordinance says they can apply for the 1420 01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:25,360 permit up to a year in advance of an event. And so, you know, we would say, 1421 01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:30,159 well, why do the conditional approval when you can apply for a permit up to a 1422 01:54:27,679 --> 01:54:34,159 year in advance of an event? And I think the counter point they would make is, 1423 01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:39,199 well, they don't necessarily have all the detailed information at that time, a 1424 01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:43,840 year in advance. And some some people organizing event an event don't want to 1425 01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:48,639 go through the trouble of organizing the entire event, not knowing whether they 1426 01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:52,320 they could even receive a permit. So the conditional approval gives them some 1427 01:54:50,480 --> 01:54:58,159 reassurance that they're sort of on the right track and I think that's that's 1428 01:54:55,199 --> 01:55:05,440 the the notion for suggesting this step in the process. Um so they provided us 1429 01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:11,840 language essentially is an A and B and and and 1430 01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:17,119 um C. We added the section in D which basically says that you know this 1431 01:55:14,719 --> 01:55:22,000 conditional approval is not your permit and it doesn't give you anything really. 1432 01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:25,840 I mean it gives you something that okay well you're you're on the right track 1433 01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:29,119 but you still have to apply for a permit still have to go through the whole 1434 01:55:26,880 --> 01:55:33,199 process. There's no guarantees. You don't doesn't vest you with anything. 1435 01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:36,400 And so essentially you're acknowledging that it's not your permit 1436 01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:40,560 » and they would have to sign a disclaimer. I mean, I think there's 1437 01:55:38,560 --> 01:55:45,119 still some concern that this sort of sets this up a little bit, right? 1438 01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:48,639 » You know, that giving them a conditional approval gives them a false sense of 1439 01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:56,239 security >> and is that the right way to go with 1440 01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:59,360 this? And so, um, you know, that's uh I think that's what's going to be 1441 01:55:57,199 --> 01:56:04,000 discussed today. And I think there's some other ways to deal with this, you 1442 01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:08,000 know, and we can talk about that, but I'll just pause there right now and let 1443 01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:15,040 the board talk about it. >> So, if the concern is about the amount 1444 01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:18,960 of work that they have to do before they know whether they can do the 1445 01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:24,239 event, they still have to provide a lot of information under this conditional 1446 01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:30,000 framework. So, I guess I would circle back and say, why not just do the permit 1447 01:56:27,119 --> 01:56:35,840 application and everybody acknowledge what's not complete yet and that has to 1448 01:56:32,960 --> 01:56:40,800 be provided by a certain date rather than create a separate process. 1449 01:56:38,239 --> 01:56:43,599 » Well, you essentially just said what I was going to say. 1450 01:56:41,599 --> 01:56:49,040 » Okay. [laughter] I mean, I think I was looking at the 1451 01:56:46,159 --> 01:56:53,599 ordinance again this morning and there's some things in there, you know, that 1452 01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:58,400 people may not have but may not be necessary, you know, to submit 1453 01:56:56,159 --> 01:57:03,199 completely, you know, a year ahead of time. Like for instance, the detailed 1454 01:57:01,520 --> 01:57:08,000 site plan. So if you're at the event site and you have to provide a detailed 1455 01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:13,599 site plan, which typically is somebody hand sketches a drawing that shows tents 1456 01:57:10,639 --> 01:57:19,920 and vendor locations and you know traffic flow and all that. Well, do we 1457 01:57:17,119 --> 01:57:23,760 really need to have that much detailed information? I mean, in most cases, 1458 01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:27,360 they're going to be able to provide a site plan that meets a requirement 1459 01:57:26,159 --> 01:57:30,480 because there's not a whole lot of specific requirements on how they lay 1460 01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:33,840 out their site. And the other big thing would be like 1461 01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:38,560 parking and transportation. You know, if we know it's a certain size 1462 01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:42,560 event, [clears throat] we know we kind of have a sense of how much parking is 1463 01:57:40,159 --> 01:57:46,000 going to be needed off site and and we can tell them, you know, you're going to 1464 01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:52,960 need to provide x [snorts] number of off-site spaces or or shuttle system or 1465 01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:56,560 transportation. So, you know, could we give them some more time to submit that 1466 01:57:55,040 --> 01:58:02,400 information, you know, after they submit their 1467 01:57:58,159 --> 01:58:06,960 application? most likely. And so maybe a step we could take is to go back to 1468 01:58:04,239 --> 01:58:10,880 tourism board staff and just say maybe we can work with you on some of these 1469 01:58:08,719 --> 01:58:17,119 things and modify some of these provisions. So it it makes it less 1470 01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:21,360 cumbersome to submit the application and give them more detail later. And and um 1471 01:58:19,440 --> 01:58:26,400 and I think that [snorts] that's something we could easily do if the 1472 01:58:22,960 --> 01:58:31,440 board agrees. And the other thing we sort of that's come up in some of these 1473 01:58:28,239 --> 01:58:38,239 conversations is, you know, the board went through a process uh during the 1474 01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:41,920 appeal to put conditions on the permit. Um and we felt like those conditions 1475 01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:48,480 were warranted based on the circumstances. 1476 01:58:43,599 --> 01:58:53,760 Um you know, the ordinance speaks to providing conditions on a permit. Um, 1477 01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:58,000 but it doesn't provide much detail about that, you know. So, from a staff 1478 01:58:56,080 --> 01:59:01,920 standpoint, I guess there's some question about how far we can go with 1479 01:59:00,159 --> 01:59:06,560 putting conditions on a permit from an administrative standpoint. And maybe 1480 01:59:04,639 --> 01:59:12,560 that would be an additional tool that would be useful to staff if we could 1481 01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:17,440 provide conditions on a permit um to to ensure a better outcome. 1482 01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:21,119 I mean, possibly might [snorts] result in, you know, not having to deny a 1483 01:59:19,440 --> 01:59:26,960 permit if you can >> give give more conditions that give you 1484 01:59:23,280 --> 01:59:32,239 more security. And so, I think we could go back and look at adding some language 1485 01:59:29,920 --> 01:59:36,080 in there about, you know, putting conditions on permits, how you can do 1486 01:59:34,239 --> 01:59:40,560 that, under what circumstances, and and be somewhat [cough] specific. And that's 1487 01:59:38,719 --> 01:59:45,199 where I think I need John's help here. But, you know, I think it can't be 1488 01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:49,199 totally arbitrary. I mean, we can't just do anything we want. So, the ordinance 1489 01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:54,480 is going to have to define that a little bit. Mhm. 1490 01:59:51,599 --> 01:59:59,920 » concerns about safety and or whatever we deem would need 1491 01:59:56,719 --> 02:00:03,840 » like if we were if we were um you know dealing with an event that we felt like 1492 02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:06,880 it needed to have some additional police presence 1493 02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:11,679 » and similar to the condition the board put on the rod and custom festival. You 1494 02:00:09,599 --> 02:00:17,040 know, could we put something in the ordinance that gives us the ability to 1495 02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:20,480 do that instead of, you know, having what happened? And so us being staff in 1496 02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:24,000 other words. >> Yes. Staff, right? Like from an 1497 02:00:22,239 --> 02:00:26,960 administrative standpoint instead of having 1498 02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:31,840 » having it go to another. >> If I may, I think the manager hit sort 1499 02:00:29,599 --> 02:00:36,000 of the key point there, which is that tool would allow administration to 1500 02:00:34,239 --> 02:00:39,599 approve something with conditions as opposed to just denying it and then and 1501 02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:43,280 then coming to the board would who would then provide those conditions. So I 1502 02:00:41,679 --> 02:00:46,480 think that helps streamline the process and would probably help avoid a lot of 1503 02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:48,880 frustration from applicants too. >> I think I would think. 1504 02:00:47,440 --> 02:00:54,000 » Yes. Yes, agreed. >> Commissioner Pal as the real quickly as 1505 02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:57,760 our representatives. Uh do you have comments on this? 1506 02:00:55,119 --> 02:01:00,560 » I I think of course as long as I agree with John that it would help the 1507 02:00:59,040 --> 02:01:04,560 applicants as well. We'd want to make sure we have a timeline so that [snorts] 1508 02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:09,360 we're not hearing about how all this was so last minute and it certainly is never 1509 02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:14,239 arbitrary. I've never noticed to do anything arbitrarily. [clears throat] So 1510 02:01:11,440 --> 02:01:18,639 I think if we can find a way to work it into our ordinance so that there's a 1511 02:01:17,280 --> 02:01:23,440 mechanism because right now there's no mechanism except denial and then you 1512 02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:28,719 know the the appeal process >> to add conditions. So I would think 1513 02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:30,880 it would be helpful. Commissioner Lambert, you 1514 02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:33,840 » I do want to touch on this a little bit and it's kind of been a recurring theme 1515 02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:39,040 this morning where we've talked a lot, safety comes up constantly and one thing 1516 02:01:37,199 --> 02:01:43,040 that's kind of been bugging me a little bit lately and I want to make sure with 1517 02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:46,800 all the discussions we've had about public events recently and then during 1518 02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:52,080 the quasi judicial hearing that we had for the custom um car rod show um there 1519 02:01:50,320 --> 02:01:57,679 was lots of sentiment and comments about being concerned not being more concerned 1520 02:01:54,960 --> 02:02:02,000 about the business that these events ing to our town and I think that those are 1521 02:01:59,599 --> 02:02:06,800 really important. But as a member of the Nags Head board and our town, our role 1522 02:02:04,480 --> 02:02:10,960 is to view these events, the events that are being hosted through the lens of the 1523 02:02:08,239 --> 02:02:15,119 town's respect responsibility to protect the safety and the welfare of our 1524 02:02:12,560 --> 02:02:18,719 residents and our visitors. Um, I recently listened to a tourism board 1525 02:02:17,119 --> 02:02:23,280 meeting from their main meeting and there was a comment that said that we 1526 02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:26,880 care about public that we care about public safety and our citizens or 1527 02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:30,320 whatever. And when I heard that, that really stuck with me because in many 1528 02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:34,719 ways it's true and it should be. That's one of our primary responsibilities. And 1529 02:02:32,639 --> 02:02:39,119 I don't think that we can have a sliding scale for public safety based on what 1530 02:02:37,280 --> 02:02:42,400 economic impact these events have because these events bring money to 1531 02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:46,000 Nagad, but they also bring money to Kittyhawk. They bring money to Kildville 1532 02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:49,280 Hills. They bring money throughout Dair County as we heard at the quasi judicial 1533 02:02:47,679 --> 02:02:53,360 hearing from representatives from all over the county. Um, and as a business 1534 02:02:51,520 --> 02:02:58,639 owner, I certainly appreciate that and I absolutely recognize how important these 1535 02:02:55,199 --> 02:03:02,719 events are to our local economy. But we also have to be good stewards to our 1536 02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:06,560 taxpayers and their dollars. And these events, if they incur extra costs with 1537 02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:09,760 our police to keep them safe, >> we need to look at what we can do with 1538 02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:13,119 those. And I don't think it should be at the burden of our taxpayers. And that's 1539 02:03:11,599 --> 02:03:18,880 how we keep the balance of having these events safely 1540 02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:24,480 » and repeatedly. And I think that we need to really look at that public safety 1541 02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:27,760 planning process not as obstacles but actually as ways to ensure that these 1542 02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:30,400 events can continue to go on because they are so important to Dare County. 1543 02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:33,440 » That's a very good point. >> But for the town, the safety has to be 1544 02:03:32,239 --> 02:03:37,520 of the utmost importance. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. 1545 02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:40,159 Appreciate that. >> Um while I'm down, Commissioner 1546 02:03:39,119 --> 02:03:44,880 Harrison, >> um I I believe that we should table 1547 02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:48,960 this. Um I agree with what Commissioner Lambert said. Um, and I I think I'm 1548 02:03:47,199 --> 02:03:52,639 hearing Andy pretty clearly that we have some a little bit more work to do that 1549 02:03:50,480 --> 02:03:55,840 we could do to make this process easier for the applicant as well as the town. 1550 02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:59,560 » Okay. >> Thank you, Bob. 1551 02:04:00,000 --> 02:04:07,280 » So, so I just wanted to clarify like um >> 4-13 1552 02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:12,159 is the section we're talking about potentially, right? 1553 02:04:08,800 --> 02:04:13,840 » Yes. Just this section right here. or or not tableabling 1554 02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:17,040 » removing >> to remove approving without that 1555 02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:19,119 section. >> Okay. 1556 02:04:17,760 --> 02:04:21,520 » Is [clears throat] a possibility. I mean yes tableabling the whole thing 1557 02:04:20,960 --> 02:04:27,360 » well >> is one possibility but also approving 1558 02:04:24,159 --> 02:04:30,639 the ordinance without that section and letting staff work on the conditional 1559 02:04:29,679 --> 02:04:34,719 part >> and cleaning up that process. 1560 02:04:32,560 --> 02:04:36,800 » Yes. Tableing this section or removing it for now and putting it back in. 1561 02:04:36,159 --> 02:04:41,119 » Yes. >> Okay. Yes. Could we also ask staff to 1562 02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:44,560 look into what and and I'm sure they probably already would be planning this, 1563 02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:47,760 but looking at what other municipalities do. I know that Kittyhawk killed a 1564 02:04:46,719 --> 02:04:52,080 holes, they don't have large event sites, but other municipalities that do 1565 02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:54,800 have large event sites and how then how they've been able to partner and work 1566 02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:59,119 together so that they can have successful safe events and how they 1567 02:04:56,960 --> 02:05:04,480 handle the fees and stuff like that for extra police and whatnot because I'd be 1568 02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:08,000 curious what they do. fees 1569 02:05:05,840 --> 02:05:11,760 » like fees adding conditions, sorry, like for a police fee or whatnot, like how 1570 02:05:10,239 --> 02:05:15,760 other towns handle that when they have an event. Who pays for the police? Is it 1571 02:05:13,520 --> 02:05:20,639 the event organizer? Is it the town, the taxpayers? How does that work and what 1572 02:05:18,639 --> 02:05:22,960 other towns do with it? >> Because it definitely is my 1573 02:05:21,679 --> 02:05:25,280 understanding that they want to continue to host as many events as possible. 1574 02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:29,760 Sure. >> And that's, as you said, a great thing. 1575 02:05:27,840 --> 02:05:33,840 » Yeah. But we need to be looking forward and considering the impact the overall 1576 02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:35,920 impact on our town and our citizens. >> And that is their concern. 1577 02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:40,447 » Yeah. >> Anything else that is their or their 1578 02:05:38,880 --> 02:05:43,520 criteria or their criteria, but [cough and clears throat] ours is 1579 02:05:41,119 --> 02:05:47,040 health, safety, and welfare. >> Full stop. 1580 02:05:45,520 --> 02:05:52,080 » Um, okay. So, let's go back then. if we're 1581 02:05:49,679 --> 02:05:58,000 talking about potentially um adopting the ordinance 1582 02:05:54,480 --> 02:06:04,400 minus section 4-13. Let's go back to the language discussion that we've had. Um 1583 02:06:01,199 --> 02:06:09,920 what is the board's pleasure in terms of um either either um moving forward the 1584 02:06:07,679 --> 02:06:14,320 markup or making language changes at this point? 1585 02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:14,960 » Entire ordinance. >> Yeah. 1586 02:06:14,639 --> 02:06:17,960 » Yeah. >> Okay. 1587 02:06:18,080 --> 02:06:23,280 I can work this way. >> Well, from what I've heard today, I do 1588 02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:28,719 believe that the spontaneous definition still allows 1589 02:06:26,159 --> 02:06:33,920 for groups to communicate amongst themselves about any spontaneous 1590 02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:36,960 event they're going to have. So, we're not precluding them from texting each 1591 02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:40,960 other or calling each other or talking to their neighbors. I feel like that is 1592 02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:46,400 a spontaneous way to gather in the street. when it becomes not spontaneous 1593 02:06:43,760 --> 02:06:51,520 is when it's promoted on Facebook or promoted advertised. 1594 02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:56,079 » I mean maybe even Facebook if it's a small group is not is still contained 1595 02:06:54,159 --> 02:07:00,400 and that's not advertised but if it's if it's very public advertising 1596 02:06:58,719 --> 02:07:05,040 I think we're still allowing for people to communicate and have a spontaneous 1597 02:07:02,719 --> 02:07:11,360 demonstration. So I would I would like to leave the definition 1598 02:07:07,280 --> 02:07:16,480 as we have it here now. Still recognizing that that allows people to 1599 02:07:13,199 --> 02:07:18,639 gather spontaneously and communicating amongst themselves. 1600 02:07:18,239 --> 02:07:25,440 Okay, >> I'm comfortable with that. And then as 1601 02:07:20,719 --> 02:07:29,679 far as taking out the language about you may have to come hang on one second 1602 02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:35,760 about um not holding the person accountable 1603 02:07:32,000 --> 02:07:39,679 who who gave the good faith estimate. Um I think taking that language out is fine 1604 02:07:37,599 --> 02:07:43,199 because we're not adding in the language that we are going to hold them 1605 02:07:40,960 --> 02:07:47,040 accountable. We're just taking it out. And our our police chief has already 1606 02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:51,360 said he's very lenient about holding people accountable. So, I feel like 1607 02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:57,520 taking that language out is not going to really be harmful to any organizer who 1608 02:07:55,040 --> 02:08:00,480 in good faith provided an estimate of people and then more people showed up. I 1609 02:07:59,119 --> 02:08:05,280 don't think anybody is going to go to jail for that or anything 1610 02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:11,159 or or not be able to gather again as long as the we can assume that the 1611 02:08:07,280 --> 02:08:11,159 estimate was in good faith. 1612 02:08:12,320 --> 02:08:20,159 » Those are my comments. Love to hear your feedback. Commissioner Labor, [laughter] 1613 02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:22,719 » I agree with Commissioner Harrison. Um, I think this is a really hard one 1614 02:08:21,840 --> 02:08:24,719 because >> you [snorts] want to make sure 1615 02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:30,800 everyone's happy, especially when we're talking about free speech. Um, 1616 02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:34,719 but I agree. I I think that it's going to be hard to get it perfect. Um, but I 1617 02:08:33,360 --> 02:08:40,880 do agree with your comments and I think that I would support this without 413. 1618 02:08:38,239 --> 02:08:46,079 » Okay. >> Right. Thank you, Mr. Sanders. 1619 02:08:44,079 --> 02:08:51,679 can support it as well. I don't know about the good faith part. I think the 1620 02:08:49,520 --> 02:08:57,280 attorney made a good point about leaving that in. Um, 1621 02:08:54,719 --> 02:09:00,599 and I mean, you do have the 48 hours if it's promoted. 1622 02:09:01,040 --> 02:09:06,320 That one's a tough one for me. I'm not sure about that one. 1623 02:09:04,880 --> 02:09:10,320 But >> are you Which one are you talking about? 1624 02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:13,840 » Um, the definition and the part that said it's not promoted or publicly 1625 02:09:12,079 --> 02:09:17,360 advertised. I mean, I could leave out publicly advertised, but I think you 1626 02:09:15,679 --> 02:09:21,760 have to do some sort of promotion. I think you have to at least tell people 1627 02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:24,639 where you're what time and where you're meeting. 1628 02:09:23,199 --> 02:09:29,119 » Seems like our two challenges are defining spontaneous because that leaves 1629 02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:33,040 a lot of room and promotion >> because it's communication. [cough] 1630 02:09:31,760 --> 02:09:39,360 » I kind of have a little bit of trouble with that definition as well. I mean, 1631 02:09:36,639 --> 02:09:44,159 you do have the 48 hours. I mean, and you're not like, from what I understand 1632 02:09:42,480 --> 02:09:48,800 from the town manager and from the chief, it's not going to be like a 1633 02:09:46,480 --> 02:09:55,520 strict enforcement. So, there is a little bit of gray area there. So, 1634 02:09:53,199 --> 02:10:00,440 yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. >> Okay. 1635 02:09:56,560 --> 02:10:00,440 I mean I could go and 1636 02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:09,840 it's publicly advertised is one thing but I think it has to be promoted to 1637 02:10:08,880 --> 02:10:14,400 some point. So >> which we are allowing for 1638 02:10:12,400 --> 02:10:18,280 interpersonal promotion with this definition. I feel like 1639 02:10:19,360 --> 02:10:27,199 » commission. >> Um I think that we that this ordinance 1640 02:10:25,280 --> 02:10:31,199 minus 14, you know, which we've already I think pretty much concur on strikes a 1641 02:10:29,760 --> 02:10:35,440 really good balance. It's not going to be perfect, but I do think it allows for 1642 02:10:33,040 --> 02:10:39,520 spontaneous demonstrations. Um, and I I think we all understand that 1643 02:10:38,000 --> 02:10:46,079 there's going to be some communication, but if somebody's got time to to really, 1644 02:10:44,239 --> 02:10:50,239 you know, really start networking for several days at a time, then there's 1645 02:10:47,520 --> 02:10:53,920 time to give notification as well to us. >> And, um, I I really appreciate Ry's 1646 02:10:52,719 --> 02:10:58,320 comments and all the people that have been involved in staff working so hard 1647 02:10:56,239 --> 02:11:01,520 to to try to come up with something. John said, we don't even have to have 1648 02:10:59,920 --> 02:11:07,199 this type of ordinance. I'm proud that we do and I definitely think as Andy 1649 02:11:04,719 --> 02:11:12,159 said that we, you know, are airing on the side of um freedom of speech 1650 02:11:09,679 --> 02:11:16,400 whenever possible, but again, we've got to consider being prepared for what 1651 02:11:14,480 --> 02:11:22,159 might come along and and looking after folks and um our officers being ready 1652 02:11:19,840 --> 02:11:26,400 and all the rest. So, >> I'm I'm in favor of of the markups. 1653 02:11:24,880 --> 02:11:32,400 » Okay. So, as I understand it, then the likely 1654 02:11:28,960 --> 02:11:38,800 motion is to adopt the ordinance as presented with the modifications 1655 02:11:36,320 --> 02:11:41,119 minus 413. >> Yes. 1656 02:11:39,360 --> 02:11:44,960 » Okay. Then if somebody will make that motion. 1657 02:11:43,679 --> 02:11:47,679 » I'll make that motion. >> Okay. And do I have a second? 1658 02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:51,199 » Second. >> Have a motion. A second. Is there any 1659 02:11:49,199 --> 02:11:58,639 further discussion? been a lot of discussion and there will probably be 1660 02:11:53,920 --> 02:12:06,480 some more um at some point but uh I I also uh commend the public um the the 1661 02:12:02,639 --> 02:12:11,119 folks who got involved um there's been a lot of discussion about collaboration 1662 02:12:08,239 --> 02:12:17,360 this morning u both in this ordinance and in the design of the um the 1663 02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:22,639 shoreline and um that's something that I'm [clears throat] very proud that 1664 02:12:18,320 --> 02:12:30,079 Nagad does Um uh we're we're not as you say arbitrary. Um we we do things um uh 1665 02:12:27,119 --> 02:12:35,040 uh in good order and uh I really appreciate that. So hearing no having a 1666 02:12:33,199 --> 02:12:38,159 motion and a second and no further discussion. All those in favor signify 1667 02:12:36,719 --> 02:12:42,840 by saying I >> I opposed. Thank you. 1668 02:12:45,119 --> 02:12:52,960 » All right. Um that brings us to new business. Um, and that would be 1669 02:12:50,719 --> 02:12:58,320 committee reports. And I'm going to start down here with um, Commissioner 1670 02:12:56,480 --> 02:13:01,280 Harrison. And I know you're going to have something for us a little bit later 1671 02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:04,560 on the agenda. >> Yes. Um, so that's not under my 1672 02:13:03,440 --> 02:13:10,400 committee report. Okay. Committee report. We are um with Current TV just 1673 02:13:08,079 --> 02:13:15,199 we are not meeting until a week or so from now, but um, I know that Roberta 1674 02:13:13,199 --> 02:13:18,719 has some things in the works and one of them is a beach nourishment video kind 1675 02:13:17,040 --> 02:13:22,000 of recapping our project. So, that's our next video coming out. 1676 02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:25,119 » Yeah. Very good. Thank you, Commissioner Lambert. 1677 02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:29,679 » Um, Miss Wyatt gave an excellent septic health update. Uh, we do have our next 1678 02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:33,520 meeting, I think July 27th, she said. And I'm really excited to hear about our 1679 02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:35,199 zero interest loans starting to roll out, getting [clears throat] that going. 1680 02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:38,079 It's >> a lot of work. 1681 02:13:36,800 --> 02:13:42,960 » All right. >> Um, Janette's peer advisory committee, 1682 02:13:40,239 --> 02:13:48,320 we did meet. Um, Commissioner Harrison and Commissioner Lambert were both there 1683 02:13:45,040 --> 02:13:54,159 in attendance. Um, we got a nice tour of the of the facility. Um, all of the 1684 02:13:51,199 --> 02:13:58,000 improvements there. Um, and it was actually it was pretty cool experience. 1685 02:13:55,760 --> 02:14:03,599 It was pretty neat. Um, and there was some um there was some additional 1686 02:14:00,159 --> 02:14:08,480 discussion about um education and and some other opportunities um and some 1687 02:14:06,320 --> 02:14:12,719 networking opportunities and and that's great. That's the that's the benefit of 1688 02:14:10,239 --> 02:14:16,000 being engaged in that kind of thing. Um, so it looks good and if you haven't been 1689 02:14:14,400 --> 02:14:20,639 there to see the new decking and everything, I encourage you to to go 1690 02:14:17,920 --> 02:14:24,719 take a look. Commissioner Sanders, the >> ambient lighting out there looks 1691 02:14:22,079 --> 02:14:29,760 amazing, too. If anybody seen that, >> it's really cool. 1692 02:14:26,800 --> 02:14:35,599 » Yeah, it's really nice. um the DAR Housing Fan Foundation. Um they're still 1693 02:14:33,199 --> 02:14:40,000 seeking opportunities for year-round workforce housing and they're also doing 1694 02:14:38,079 --> 02:14:44,320 some community outreach and uh fundraising events such as castles for a 1695 02:14:42,719 --> 02:14:48,480 cause which you can find on their website which is a summer castle 1696 02:14:46,800 --> 02:14:52,320 building contest and they have a new contest each week and so that's raising 1697 02:14:50,480 --> 02:14:57,199 a little bit of money as well. So >> cool. Very good. 1698 02:14:54,480 --> 02:15:01,360 » Commissioner B. Uh well, we covered probably the highlight for us regarding 1699 02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:04,719 the um visitors bureau, which was the discussion about the easement and all 1700 02:15:02,960 --> 02:15:08,960 that. We're making good progress on that and um nothing else big to report from 1701 02:15:07,760 --> 02:15:13,280 them. >> Thank you. 1702 02:15:11,119 --> 02:15:17,760 Uh that brings us to the town attorney, Mr. Lighty. Anything that's not already 1703 02:15:15,760 --> 02:15:21,599 in the um close session? >> I I think I've already uh provided my my 1704 02:15:20,560 --> 02:15:25,040 my >> We got our money's worth today, did we? 1705 02:15:23,199 --> 02:15:28,000 Did we not? [laughter] He'll have nothing else at this time. 1706 02:15:26,239 --> 02:15:35,119 » All right. Great. Thank Thank you very much. Uh and the town manager. Um so we 1707 02:15:32,639 --> 02:15:38,679 will have a 2026 beach nourishment update. David, 1708 02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:49,040 while he's setting up, I will note that um several board members did visit the 1709 02:15:46,079 --> 02:15:54,880 uh cutterhead dredge uh last week, and that was a a really great um experience 1710 02:15:51,440 --> 02:15:59,280 to see how that how that works. Um, and it it was really it was really nice 1711 02:15:56,880 --> 02:16:03,280 because it it uh I think it gives you a sense of the scale of the operation, not 1712 02:16:01,360 --> 02:16:08,800 just the boat itself, but all of the staff um the logistics, everything that 1713 02:16:06,560 --> 02:16:11,360 goes into that is uh is pretty remarkable and it was it was neat to 1714 02:16:10,639 --> 02:16:15,760 see. [clears throat] >> Yeah, I was surfing yesterday and 1715 02:16:13,920 --> 02:16:18,719 surfing by the little dredge, but looking at the big one, it definitely 1716 02:16:17,119 --> 02:16:21,360 put in perspective because you can see it way out there. It doesn't look like 1717 02:16:19,920 --> 02:16:24,159 much, but when you're on it, it does. Like so much going on out there. 1718 02:16:23,440 --> 02:16:27,599 » Yeah. >> And on the beach, too. 1719 02:16:26,560 --> 02:16:30,719 » David, >> uh good morning, mayor and 1720 02:16:28,960 --> 02:16:36,160 commissioners. Um you're going to have to bear with me here. Uh my computer 1721 02:16:33,439 --> 02:16:40,800 just decided that it was going to reset. >> So, of course, it did have to rely on 1722 02:16:38,639 --> 02:16:43,679 Katie to go ahead and come come with a backup here. 1723 02:16:42,399 --> 02:16:49,439 » Okay. But um as uh as the mayor had mentioned, 1724 02:16:47,840 --> 02:16:53,840 you know, a project of this scale is really a collaborative effort between 1725 02:16:51,359 --> 02:16:58,160 the consulting engineer, the contractor and and town staff. And um especially 1726 02:16:56,399 --> 02:17:03,040 over the past several weeks, we've had a lot of communication taking place as a 1727 02:17:01,280 --> 02:17:07,599 result of some of the critical areas that they've been working on in this 1728 02:17:04,800 --> 02:17:13,120 project. um especially down in uh South Nags Head um finishing up that stretch 1729 02:17:10,800 --> 02:17:19,679 and then here in the main uh part of town uh just because of the impact and 1730 02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:25,920 the time of year um that we have uh that it's uh it's been a real challenge um 1731 02:17:22,719 --> 02:17:29,120 but it's been it's been a pleasure um working collectively as a group to be 1732 02:17:27,840 --> 02:17:36,080 able to go ahead and resolve a lot of these issues. 1733 02:17:32,319 --> 02:17:41,200 So, uh, currently we've there's been a lot of progress that has been made over 1734 02:17:38,319 --> 02:17:48,719 the, um, past month, uh, when we gave our last update, uh, in the northern 1735 02:17:45,120 --> 02:17:54,080 section of town. Um, where we start at Bonnet Street Bath House, uh, we have 1736 02:17:51,280 --> 02:18:01,679 completed all the way down to about Forb Street. Um, and the the hopper dredge is 1737 02:17:59,519 --> 02:18:06,559 working that section of town. And they've got about another thousand feet 1738 02:18:03,760 --> 02:18:12,639 or so to go ahead and complete that section before they pull off and they 1739 02:18:09,519 --> 02:18:18,559 start working south of there at Harrove Street, which is the next subline um 1740 02:18:16,319 --> 02:18:24,479 connection that um they will be working off of. Um, as the mayor had mentioned, 1741 02:18:22,240 --> 02:18:28,559 the board members made a site visit last week to the dredge and you got a 1742 02:18:26,000 --> 02:18:34,160 firsthand look at all the moving parts that go into it. Um, unfortunately um 1743 02:18:32,319 --> 02:18:39,439 some of those issues were realized this past weekend when um the RS weeks, the 1744 02:18:37,599 --> 02:18:44,160 hydraulic dredge or the cutterhead dredge lost power. And so they were 1745 02:18:42,319 --> 02:18:51,439 working just south of the Outer Banks Pier and they had it took them about 18 1746 02:18:48,479 --> 02:18:56,240 to 24 hours to be able to restore power. They still had sand in that subline. So 1747 02:18:54,080 --> 02:19:01,280 they had to purge that and they've made a decision to go ahead and pull that 1748 02:18:58,719 --> 02:19:07,040 dredge off and demobilize that part of the operation. So they've been able to 1749 02:19:03,760 --> 02:19:12,399 go ahead and adapt and uh the hopper dredge the RB weeks will then move 1750 02:19:10,080 --> 02:19:18,479 southward and they will go ahead and continue for the remainder of the 1751 02:19:14,080 --> 02:19:24,160 project. Uh even with all that occurring um we're still looking at maintaining 1752 02:19:21,920 --> 02:19:30,399 the schedule. The last schedule that was given was completion on or around July 1753 02:19:28,000 --> 02:19:35,920 19th. So that's actually moved up a little bit um from from our last update 1754 02:19:33,280 --> 02:19:39,599 and you know that will vary um based upon mechanical issues or weather 1755 02:19:37,920 --> 02:19:46,880 related issues or whether they have to go refuel. So uh it is a very fluid and 1756 02:19:43,040 --> 02:19:51,359 dynamic process. Uh but um they've they've been making some very good 1757 02:19:48,479 --> 02:19:57,200 progress with the hopper dredge. They're um on a daily basis. It's anywhere 1758 02:19:54,080 --> 02:20:02,399 between 700 to 1,000 ft of beach that they are nourishing on a daily basis. 1759 02:19:59,760 --> 02:20:06,479 And uh if they maintain that schedule, we anticipate that uh you know they'll 1760 02:20:04,720 --> 02:20:12,080 be able to go ahead and finish up mid July. Um when they do move down to the 1761 02:20:10,160 --> 02:20:16,800 next subline, which is at Hard Grove Street, they will first go in a 1762 02:20:14,720 --> 02:20:22,720 southerntherly direction. So, they will go ahead and finish off and tie into 1763 02:20:19,600 --> 02:20:28,560 where the cutterhead dredge left off um at the Islington Street Beach access and 1764 02:20:26,240 --> 02:20:35,760 then they will go ahead and flip and work northward. Um that will lessen the 1765 02:20:33,680 --> 02:20:39,680 impact especially around Janette's Pier during the Fourth of July holiday by 1766 02:20:38,319 --> 02:20:43,200 going ahead and maintaining that sequence. So that was a discussion that 1767 02:20:41,760 --> 02:20:49,200 we had with the contractor that they were able to go ahead and adapt and be 1768 02:20:46,399 --> 02:20:54,720 able to go ahead and work with us. Uh just noting um some of the issues that 1769 02:20:52,880 --> 02:21:00,479 uh we've seen in the past especially working around a lot of the peers. Um 1770 02:20:58,160 --> 02:21:03,880 with that I'll I'll answer any questions that you have. 1771 02:21:04,960 --> 02:21:10,240 » Anyone? So, it doesn't sound like we're going to 1772 02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:14,800 lose any time because we're losing a dredge. Like, we're still maintaining a 1773 02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:20,800 pretty good schedule. >> No, because the original goal was to 1774 02:21:18,080 --> 02:21:24,080 work up to the Outer Banks Pier with the cutterhead dredge 1775 02:21:22,319 --> 02:21:26,640 » and they fell just shy of that. >> Okay. 1776 02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:29,840 » So, so the 1777 02:21:27,760 --> 02:21:33,280 » the hopper dredge was going to go ahead and finish off that work. Now, they've 1778 02:21:31,520 --> 02:21:35,520 just got a little extra length to have to go through the pier to be able to tie 1779 02:21:34,880 --> 02:21:40,479 that in. >> Okay. Pretty 1780 02:21:38,479 --> 02:21:42,720 good. All right. Thank you, David. >> All right. Thank you. 1781 02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:45,280 » Glad they lose power while we were out there. 1782 02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:49,840 » Just a saying. I'm glad they didn't lose power when we were there. [laughter] 1783 02:21:47,600 --> 02:21:54,240 » Yeah. Uh David, you're going to stay there and give us a update on the 1784 02:21:52,160 --> 02:22:00,720 multi-use path. >> Okay. Um, if I can ask if I can put this 1785 02:21:58,479 --> 02:22:06,880 off until next month because I've got some exhibits that I want to show and 1786 02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:10,000 with my computer in the current status that uh I won't be able to go ahead and 1787 02:22:09,359 --> 02:22:13,680 show that. >> Absolutely. No problem. 1788 02:22:12,399 --> 02:22:16,560 » All right. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you, David. 1789 02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:22,240 » Thank you, David. >> All right. And Andy, um you're gonna 1790 02:22:18,560 --> 02:22:26,399 give us an update on the um funding offer from DEEQ. 1791 02:22:24,319 --> 02:22:31,280 » Sure. And Amy's going to get up and and go over this and um Kelly mentioned this 1792 02:22:28,880 --> 02:22:36,720 during her presentation, but we did receive the funding offer finally for 1793 02:22:33,840 --> 02:22:42,080 the 0% interest loan program for our septic health program. And uh Amy's been 1794 02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:48,040 working on this and we need the board to approve something. So let her just go 1795 02:22:44,640 --> 02:22:48,040 over that briefly. 1796 02:23:10,319 --> 02:23:17,760 I was worried my Oh, my computer did the same thing as his did. Okay. 1797 02:23:14,319 --> 02:23:23,520 » So, I g I sent it to um Katie, so we're good. Um 1798 02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:29,359 sorry about that. Sometimes when I move my computer, it does this. 1799 02:23:26,479 --> 02:23:35,120 There you go. Um, yes. So, this was not published and I apologize because I just 1800 02:23:31,680 --> 02:23:40,080 got this on Monday like at 3 o'clock. And this is just kind of the last piece 1801 02:23:37,760 --> 02:23:46,399 that we need to formalize this septic health, the 0% septic health residential 1802 02:23:43,840 --> 02:23:49,600 loan program, the $500,000 we received from DEEQ. 1803 02:23:48,080 --> 02:23:57,280 um they just need uh a resolution 1804 02:23:53,120 --> 02:24:03,439 from the board to accept the the loan. Um and again, this is the last piece of 1805 02:24:00,800 --> 02:24:08,399 being able to start moving forward forward with offering the loan. So what 1806 02:24:05,280 --> 02:24:14,399 they need is um the resolution adopted by the board and within that resolution 1807 02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:20,479 it authorizes both Andy and myself to execute any contractual documents 1808 02:24:18,319 --> 02:24:25,280 um for the town. So you're giving us that authority to do that in this 1809 02:24:21,920 --> 02:24:28,080 resolution. But um yeah, we we didn't think we would want to wait another 1810 02:24:26,560 --> 02:24:31,600 month to get moving on this >> right 1811 02:24:29,359 --> 02:24:36,399 » because it's it's been a while in the making. So, um, apologies for it not 1812 02:24:35,120 --> 02:24:43,040 being published, but we think it's a good thing and and, um, getting this 1813 02:24:39,120 --> 02:24:47,920 moving a little bit faster. >> All right. Thank you, Amy. And we do 1814 02:24:45,840 --> 02:24:50,640 appreciate being able to to move ahead with this. 1815 02:24:49,120 --> 02:24:54,640 » Um, so, commissioners, any questions of Amy 1816 02:24:53,040 --> 02:25:00,560 first before we >> proceed? All right. Um, in that case, a 1817 02:24:58,560 --> 02:25:03,920 motion to adopt the resolution would be in order. I'll make that motion. 1818 02:25:02,479 --> 02:25:08,640 » Okay. Is there a second? I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? 1819 02:25:06,880 --> 02:25:11,600 Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. I. 1820 02:25:09,680 --> 02:25:16,080 » I. Opposed. Right. >> Great. Thank you very much. 1821 02:25:13,840 --> 02:25:19,680 » Very excited about that. >> Uh that brings us to the board of 1822 02:25:17,520 --> 02:25:23,920 commissioners agenda and commissioner Harrison. 1823 02:25:21,520 --> 02:25:30,880 » Okay. Okay. So, with Current TV, this is a a video that was made um it's it's not 1824 02:25:29,040 --> 02:25:35,200 one of our regularly scheduled videos. They are always looking for new ideas. 1825 02:25:32,960 --> 02:25:40,479 Um and they're willing to the current TV staff is willing to um make videos 1826 02:25:38,640 --> 02:25:45,359 basically, you know, as part of our contribution about anything in the town 1827 02:25:43,200 --> 02:25:49,120 that is interesting and they it will air on current TV. And so, Roberta knew that 1828 02:25:47,439 --> 02:25:52,399 these researchers were coming to town to look at our shipwreck that's right out 1829 02:25:50,640 --> 02:25:58,000 here in the yard. And so she alerted them and Chad came and Casey came and 1830 02:25:55,120 --> 02:26:01,040 made this video about our shipwreck. So we can I just thought it would be fun if 1831 02:25:59,359 --> 02:26:05,280 we could watch these videos from time to time to know what the that's happening 1832 02:26:02,960 --> 02:26:10,605 with the government access channel. >> Sure. 1833 02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:10,605 » So roll it Katie. [laughter] 1834 02:26:21,760 --> 02:26:25,640 Mom over there. 1835 02:26:47,520 --> 02:26:54,160 While she's trying to figure that out, I will say that um we are always looking 1836 02:26:52,000 --> 02:26:57,200 for ideas. So, if if you come across anything that you think that the 1837 02:26:55,680 --> 02:27:01,680 community would like to know about wi within maged. Um I know she's working on 1838 02:26:59,840 --> 02:27:05,840 one now about beach accesses and kind of the life of a beach access. I working on 1839 02:27:04,240 --> 02:27:09,200 one about beach nourishment. I think the mayor was interviewed for that one. Is 1840 02:27:07,200 --> 02:27:13,439 that right? So, if you know any ideas that people are willing to share, we'd 1841 02:27:11,520 --> 02:27:17,439 love to hear them and could possibly get it made into a little video. 1842 02:27:16,240 --> 02:27:20,160 » Actually, I was interviewed for the beach access. 1843 02:27:18,399 --> 02:27:22,560 » You were? Oh, okay. You were for that one as well. 1844 02:27:21,200 --> 02:27:25,520 » Yeah. Okay. So, >> I'm excited to see 1845 02:27:24,479 --> 02:27:29,200 » I don't know when those are coming out. I know he was working on production of 1846 02:27:27,280 --> 02:27:31,600 the beach nourishment one. >> Okay. 1847 02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:35,800 » Just this week. Okay. >> Yeah. Good. 1848 02:27:32,800 --> 02:27:35,800 » Yeah. 1849 02:27:40,640 --> 02:27:46,840 This was 1978. Before that, 1850 02:28:05,359 --> 02:28:08,359 197 1851 02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:34,960 and they're going to record within particular narrative in relation 1852 02:28:32,000 --> 02:28:39,880 to which the US service report 1853 02:28:51,280 --> 02:28:56,960 a number of years ago we had a student do an assignment on this and we can look 1854 02:28:55,200 --> 02:29:01,439 at the different 1855 02:28:58,960 --> 02:29:01,439 canlate 1856 02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:06,120 insurance 1857 02:29:12,319 --> 02:29:15,960 500 to 900 1858 02:29:26,880 --> 02:29:30,960 back in 2016. We 1859 02:29:38,000 --> 02:29:41,880 and you're walking around. 1860 02:29:54,319 --> 02:29:58,040 The purpose of it is 1861 02:30:00,880 --> 02:30:03,880 that 1862 02:30:05,200 --> 02:30:14,520 we have a drill that 1863 02:30:10,560 --> 02:30:14,520 shows us how well 1864 02:30:23,040 --> 02:30:29,960 this a whole series of benefits. I mean, how do you get to 1865 02:30:30,640 --> 02:30:33,800 North Carolina? 1866 02:30:52,240 --> 02:30:55,640 By the way, 1867 02:31:05,760 --> 02:31:09,240 looking at it now 1868 02:31:20,800 --> 02:31:26,439 making it really difficult. talking about 1869 02:31:46,080 --> 02:31:49,080 curious 1870 02:31:50,960 --> 02:31:55,640 experiment. to come up with 1871 02:32:03,040 --> 02:32:06,280 you have 1872 02:32:13,520 --> 02:32:16,760 United States 1873 02:32:20,479 --> 02:32:23,720 of Virginia. 1874 02:32:28,479 --> 02:32:33,130 » Yeah. >> Not a funding request. [laughter] 1875 02:32:33,359 --> 02:32:39,359 » Yeah. >> Yeah. 1876 02:32:36,399 --> 02:32:43,120 » Yeah. Very good. Thank you. Anything else? 1877 02:32:42,319 --> 02:32:48,240 » Not for me. >> Okay, Commissioner Lambert. 1878 02:32:45,120 --> 02:32:52,880 » Oh, I'm so sorry. I am happy 4th of July to everyone this weekend, especially our 1879 02:32:49,920 --> 02:32:55,920 EMS and public works, police, fire, you guys are all working, so a lot of people 1880 02:32:54,319 --> 02:32:58,479 can be off. So, thank you so much. >> Yeah, absolutely. 1881 02:32:56,800 --> 02:33:00,560 » Absolutely. Commissioner Sanders. >> Yeah, it's great. 1882 02:32:59,680 --> 02:33:04,160 » Nothing else. >> Okay, great. 1883 02:33:02,560 --> 02:33:08,240 Uh, that brings us to the mayor's agenda. Um, and there was nothing listed 1884 02:33:06,240 --> 02:33:16,240 in the published agenda, but I did want to um to say a couple of things. Um, one 1885 02:33:12,319 --> 02:33:21,680 I want to u add to, uh, Commissioner Lambert's wish for a safe and happy 1886 02:33:18,319 --> 02:33:28,000 fourth on everyone's part. Um, so, um, I want to give a legislative 1887 02:33:24,880 --> 02:33:34,640 update. Um we've reported several times on activities of the legislature um and 1888 02:33:31,359 --> 02:33:39,200 the town's efforts to um have some policy impact on a couple of 1889 02:33:36,720 --> 02:33:44,560 things. Um as well as some appropriations requests that the town 1890 02:33:41,280 --> 02:33:49,600 had. Um you're probably aware if you read the news that the state finally um 1891 02:33:47,359 --> 02:33:58,560 has presented a budget uh a final budget. Um and uh I understand that they 1892 02:33:54,720 --> 02:34:06,000 hope to vote on that today. Um and so uh the town had several appropriations 1893 02:34:01,359 --> 02:34:16,319 request um in um one of those is in the budget which is $400,000 for um uh our 1894 02:34:12,319 --> 02:34:21,520 um public safety command center. Um and uh so that's that's good news. Um 1895 02:34:18,560 --> 02:34:26,000 assuming that budget gets passed and and um 1896 02:34:23,280 --> 02:34:31,359 there is the opportunity uh for additional appropriations uh going 1897 02:34:28,560 --> 02:34:38,479 forward. Uh the understanding from our consultants in Raleigh that um possibly 1898 02:34:34,160 --> 02:34:44,479 even in August they may come and um and uh adopt some riders to the budget. And 1899 02:34:41,120 --> 02:34:50,800 so there's still hope for our waterline replacement and some other things. Um 1900 02:34:46,640 --> 02:34:56,720 but nonetheless, um $400,000 is a is a significant win for the for the town. Um 1901 02:34:53,600 --> 02:35:03,840 we also had a a couple of policy uh wins. Um [clears throat] one that I'll 1902 02:34:58,960 --> 02:35:09,520 site um and that was House Bill 162, which um was also uh voted on by the 1903 02:35:06,960 --> 02:35:14,880 Senate and is going to the governor for signature. Um that was the one that was 1904 02:35:12,640 --> 02:35:23,280 the bill that would have stripped away our um ability to set parking standards 1905 02:35:18,880 --> 02:35:27,760 uh in the town. Um we uh this was a focus of one of our visits to the 1906 02:35:24,960 --> 02:35:34,080 legislature. Um we talked to the bill sponsors. Uh we talked to our senator 1907 02:35:30,399 --> 02:35:38,000 Bobby Hannig um about this and ultimately with a lot of back and forth 1908 02:35:36,319 --> 02:35:44,640 between our consultants and the board and the staff um there was an amendment 1909 02:35:42,000 --> 02:35:49,200 to that bill which exempted the KA counties. Um I guess on the basis that 1910 02:35:47,439 --> 02:35:54,080 the KA counties are where the resort communities are which are very much like 1911 02:35:51,840 --> 02:35:59,920 ours and have the issues that we describe to them. Uh, nonetheless, 1912 02:35:56,640 --> 02:36:06,319 regardless of how they decided uh uh on that uh we are exempted from that those 1913 02:36:03,280 --> 02:36:12,479 those um that and we will maintain our parking standards which is which is 1914 02:36:08,080 --> 02:36:19,920 good. Um there was another bill um that we worked on that would have mandated a 1915 02:36:16,399 --> 02:36:27,359 number of things um like um accessory dwelling units and others. um that bill 1916 02:36:23,439 --> 02:36:31,600 was modified and we worked on that um with a population threshold that we 1917 02:36:29,520 --> 02:36:35,680 would be exempted from. I'm not sure the status of that bill. I don't I'm not 1918 02:36:33,359 --> 02:36:42,240 sure that that one has been voted on uh yet. Um but assuming that our amendment 1919 02:36:38,960 --> 02:36:50,240 uh stays in place, then we would also um so um I uh yesterday um Whitney 1920 02:36:46,800 --> 02:36:54,160 Christensen, her her lobbyist, uh called me. she was running between meetings and 1921 02:36:52,319 --> 02:36:58,960 she said she'd be sending the email later, which she did. Um, but she wanted 1922 02:36:57,280 --> 02:37:04,479 to let us know that she'd seen the budget uh yesterday morning and that her 1923 02:37:02,399 --> 02:37:09,520 $400,000 was in there and she was very excited about that. And so so in a brief 1924 02:37:06,880 --> 02:37:14,560 call, but um uh she was very complimentary of the 1925 02:37:11,680 --> 02:37:21,040 town of Nags Head and our board and our staff. Um you know, she said that all of 1926 02:37:18,720 --> 02:37:28,160 their clients get the same issues flagged for them. Um but Nagad rolls up 1927 02:37:25,840 --> 02:37:34,640 its sleeves and goes to work and believes that the town can have an 1928 02:37:29,920 --> 02:37:41,040 impact. Um and it does. And so um to the extent that Nagsad has success, it is 1929 02:37:37,600 --> 02:37:45,760 due in part to uh the work that they do but also the work that we do. Um and 1930 02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:51,280 this board has been very engaged in this. And so that's and that's that's 1931 02:37:48,560 --> 02:37:59,200 great. Um and it paid off. So I just wanted to I just wanted to pass that on. 1932 02:37:55,280 --> 02:38:06,479 Um that brings us to uh close sessions and um I I think we uh need to amend 1933 02:38:04,640 --> 02:38:11,520 this. U we were going to talk about a piece of property John as well. I 1934 02:38:08,800 --> 02:38:19,439 believe in in this. So if you will give us the right reference um for that 1935 02:38:16,160 --> 02:38:24,640 » that one is um this is it's subsection A5. 1936 02:38:21,359 --> 02:38:31,359 » Okay. So, I make a motion that the board enter into close session um to um 1937 02:38:29,359 --> 02:38:37,160 discuss close session minutes and their deposition pursuant to general statute 1938 02:38:34,160 --> 02:38:37,160 143-318.11a1 1939 02:38:37,600 --> 02:38:48,240 and um to discuss a piece of property which I don't have the address for 1940 02:38:44,640 --> 02:38:54,240 um but it's it's adjacent to our parking lot across from the Epstein beach access 1941 02:38:52,000 --> 02:38:57,880 and um in accordance with general statute 143-318.11a5. 1942 02:38:58,720 --> 02:39:01,760 Um so I make that motion. Is there a second? 1943 02:39:01,120 --> 02:39:05,359 » Second. >> Have a motion and a second. All in favor 1944 02:39:03,680 --> 02:39:10,760 signify by saying I. >> I opposed. All right. Board will be in 1945 02:39:07,520 --> 02:39:10,760 close session. 1946 02:39:13,840 --> 02:39:18,560 Okay. The board has returned to open session. Mr. Lighty, will you please 1947 02:39:17,120 --> 02:39:21,520 report on the close session? >> Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, the board did 1948 02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:25,680 approve close session minutes and took action to open certain ones and to keep 1949 02:39:23,920 --> 02:39:28,240 others sealed in accordance with the disposition schedule, but no other 1950 02:39:27,200 --> 02:39:35,000 actions were taken. >> Okay, very good. Uh, is there any other 1951 02:39:30,960 --> 02:39:35,000 business to come before the board? 1952 02:39:35,200 --> 02:39:40,720 Uh, in that case, a and we do not need a midmon meeting. So, a motion to adjurnn 1953 02:39:39,840 --> 02:39:43,680 would be in order. >> So, moved. I 1954 02:39:41,439 --> 02:39:45,760 » have a motion and a is there a second? >> Second. 1955 02:39:44,240 --> 02:39:50,640 » I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I. 1956 02:39:47,120 --> 02:39:50,640 » I opposed. Thank you.