[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[1:45] I'd
[1:50] like to call our town council meeting for August the 19th to order. Could we please stand
[1:56] for our pledge?
[2:16] Let us pray, Heavenly Father, we just invite you into our meeting today and ask you to lead us in Goddess and share your wisdom with us as always.
[2:25] And we also would like to thank you for the service of our Councilman, Xavier and Harrison.
[2:32] And then we just lift his family up to you and ask that you envelop them with your precious love and your name we pray.
[2:38] Amen.
[2:39] Thank you very much.
[2:40] The first item on our agenda is the proven of the minutes or any corrections to those minutes.
[2:47] It's a little sorry I forgot to get in touch with you there was one on
[2:55] page 13 right in the middle of 7C council member Bill lump identified several provisions of the ordinance that she believed.
[3:09] I appreciate that.
[3:13] I didn't see it.
[3:15] How do you do?
[3:16] All right.
[3:17] That's one.
[3:18] Bill is going to find for sure.
[3:22] Missed that one.
[3:23] Are there any other corrections?
[3:25] Yeah.
[3:27] They're second.
[3:28] Second.
[3:29] All those in favor?
[3:30] Let it be known by saying on.
[3:32] At this time, we have our public comments.
[3:36] First is Larry Cockrole.
[3:38] Come in and just state your name.
[3:40] And that you live in Nashville or wherever.
[3:42] and you have three minutes.
[3:45] Secretary Park will go to the 5th East Trick Creek Nashville.
[3:49] Mayor Counsel, I purchased two of one East Church Street in 2017,
[3:54] while still living in Raleigh. Since that time, I have had multiple complaints
[3:57] from the Planning Department concerning this property.
[4:00] First complaint was in somewhere around 2018, 2019.
[4:04] This would be my first meeting with Mr. Lansing and Mr. Lucas.
[4:08] At that meeting in Town Hall, I raised the issue of trespassing on the property
[4:11] due to photographs that were taken on the property exhibiting angles, not visible from a public street, sidewalk or walkway, indicating deep entry into the property.
[4:22] At that meeting, I requested that I be notified in the future if any access to the property was necessary and that I would be happy to meet and accompany anyone on to the property.
[4:32] Since that time, there have been four more complaints from the town concerning the property, of which letters have been received from the town, with pictures exhibiting angles in view.
[4:41] not accessible from the public street, sidewalk or walkway, indicating deep entry onto the property.
[4:49] Each of these four complaints resulted in meetings at town hall in which I re-enerated at each meeting to either Mr. Lucas,
[4:56] now Ms. Jones, or both that trespassing had occurred.
[5:00] And previously to request access to the property prior to their entering the saying. This past week, Friday to 14th of August, I received a fifth letter, along with pictures attached, exhibiting angles and views, not accessible from a public street sidewalk or walkway indicating deep entry on to the property. This has not become obvious to me that the revocation of my access in previous meetings on multiple occasions has and will not be honored since my first meeting.
[5:29] in 2018 or 19. I have never received one phone call, email, or letter requesting an appointment
[5:37] or my presence to escort anyone from the town on to 201 East Church Street prior to entry
[5:44] since specifically requesting that they do so. As my only recourse, I am lodging a formal
[5:50] complaint of violation of my Fourth Amendment rights and violations of North Carolina State
[5:54] statute. Mayor, Mr. Lacy, Lou, and Mr. Lucas. You have been notified. I
[6:11] hope you're happy
[6:11] to answer any questions that you may have at a later date. Thank you. Nancy West.
[6:23] Nancy West, nice for graphic. One question, um, Nash County has installed Narcan distribution
[6:30] at all libraries in the county, except for Cooley Library.
[6:35] So I wanted to know if the town plan to also allow installation outside the library.
[6:44] I don't have an answer, but I'll find one for you. Anybody have an answer here?
[6:49] Well Nancy, it was talked about with staff and council members individually
[6:54] and decided that we didn't want to have a Narcan distribution box at this library,
[7:01] this facility. We wanted to make sure that it remained a safe haven for our children and our patrons
[7:08] and having a narcan box here and available. There was concerns that it would bring
[7:18] individuals that wouldn't be perceived well at this facility.
[7:22] Is there, um, has the town thought about another place possibly within town limits to put it?
[7:31] Yeah, we offered the police fire station at 501 South Foreign Street to Nash County for placement of it.
[7:39] We also have the county courthouse to see.
[7:41] Right.
[7:41] A great place.
[7:43] Okay.
[7:44] Did somebody ask them about that too?
[7:46] I don't know yet.
[7:47] I don't know about the courthouse.
[7:49] but we offered to the PD fire station.
[7:53] Okay, thanks.
[7:58] Thank you.
[7:59] And the next item on our agenda is the sewer manhole ceiling project.
[8:06] Randy?
[8:07] Yes, Mayor and Council, recently, you know, we did the, we have Matt Gaines associates do
[8:13] the asset inventory assessment for both our water and sewer.
[8:17] When they did the sewer, they popped all the manholes in the system.
[8:21] checked them for leaks, infiltration, and found about 700 of them that had some form of infiltration.
[8:30] And then we set out on a program to seal those.
[8:35] Early on, when this was discovered, Mike Tulson with McAnne Associates had put in to the DWI Division of Water Infrastructure with the state of North Carolina for an application for funding.
[8:50] I mean, I'm sorry, I'm on the wrong one here.
[8:53] So similar.
[8:57] They're confusing.
[8:59] Yep.
[9:00] So we bid out the ceiling of those.
[9:03] Mike Tulson did for us after he came up with plans and specifications for
[9:07] the interior ceiling and the manholes.
[9:09] We got three bids, CTR coatings and
[9:12] Axwell advanced rehabilitation technologies from Ohio and Carolina lift stations from
[9:19] from New York, South Carolina, and then applying the low bid to our 700 manholes at the unit price that they bid resulted in a project cost of $1,505,000 approximately.
[9:38] And the town was awarded $1.5 million from Nash County through their direct appropriation that $17.5 million.
[9:46] and then we signed that inter-local agreement for that, and at this time Mackie and Associates
[9:53] and town staff is recommending the Council Award to contract the CT.
[10:00] Or their unit price of $2,147 per linear foot to seal approximately 700 manholes in our sewer system. And we do have Mike Tolson, our engineer here with us. If you have any questions for him about that. Councillor, do you have any questions? Right now, I guess I'm confused also. I thought we've already had a project going on seeing these manholes. We do. I thought we used that same money. Yes.
[10:29] And that contract, we had extended a contract to CTR coding for $150,000 worth of manhole ceiling for three years, for a total of $450.
[10:41] This includes that.
[10:44] What we had found when we submitted our reimbursements to NCDEQ to draw down on our asset inventory assessment is they wanted to see a formal bid lighting on it.
[10:56] We kind of start this project from the wrong end, I think.
[11:01] I mean, we approached it as a maintenance contract, whereby we didn't have to have plants
[11:05] and specifications.
[11:06] I mean, it's like asphalt in the street, you call the asphalt company, they know exactly
[11:11] what to do, you specify what makes you want, and that's about it.
[11:16] And but no, they wanted detailed plants and specifications, so Mac and associates put
[11:20] those together, then they wanted to see a formal bidletting, competitive one, so we did that,
[11:25] which was really tough to do when you're doing a proprietary project, I mean this polymer polyurethane coating
[11:35] that they're putting in the manholes is proprietary.
[11:38] You can only get it from authorized dealers that the manufacturer has authorized to install it.
[11:45] So that's why you see some of the bids are from Tennessee and Ohio and New York.
[11:50] Anyway, the 450,000 contract we have with CTR coding in our underway are ready, would
[11:57] be included in this expanded contract lending.
[12:01] Okay.
[12:02] So this isn't included in the 100, 100, 1 million back then.
[12:06] Yes, it will be.
[12:07] But I thought we already authorized 1.5 million from the county to do this exact same thing
[12:12] a year ago.
[12:13] We did with our execution of that interlocal agreement, but it wasn't the documentation
[12:19] that the DWI wanted or needed, this is, it might, maybe you can expand that.
[12:26] We're doing the same work, we just got to get the paperwork.
[12:28] This is back in paperwork to basically make people of the state happy with the interlocal
[12:33] agreement that you did with the county.
[12:35] It's still the same pull of money.
[12:37] It's just they have a process and a checklist, and if you don't have every little check on that box,
[12:44] and that's what we're just doing, the paperwork on the back in, and unfortunately,
[12:47] they just drug it to this point where we've got to have you guys approve
[12:52] something that's a already in the works and I'll tell Randy and I told
[12:57] Randy several times it is not uncommon that they have we need one more thing
[13:03] we're about to finish the project and you're telling me you can't you know
[13:07] so we're just alright and so it's unfortunate but it is what it is at that
[13:11] you know just trying to get the paperwork together how far along are we in it so
[13:16] So I can't remember the exact number of manholes that we've done, but it's, you know, in the couple hundred range of manholes, I believe, from the list I saw the other day.
[13:28] We're updating your information, getting ready for your audit.
[13:31] So, and we have not been day to day involved in it, but just trying to help you guys get the paperwork in place that you need.
[13:39] But moving along quite well, I would imagine you've seen some improvements in your infiltration
[13:45] and your numbers, of course, been dry summer, relatively, so I don't know if you've seen
[13:52] the effect of it, but it will pay dividends over time for sure, which is kind of a good segue
[13:57] into the next thing we're going to talk about, that I'm here to talk about too.
[14:00] So we're 25% to 30% into it.
[14:02] I would say that's probably about right.
[14:04] You're probably almost two years into the contract, but yes, I mean this is
[14:12] getting you basically what you've been paying out of enterprise, getting you
[14:15] reimbursed for some of the stuff you've already thrown in on things like that.
[14:19] Do you want to make a castle?
[14:21] 240 is the last number that I've got, so we're 240 in to this project right now.
[14:26] Well, I'm just thrilled and thankful that we are finally attacking our infrastructure, so
[14:31] So our citizens won't keep running into all these problems, so I'm very grateful for
[14:37] what we're doing.
[14:38] We're eating this elephant a bite at a time, but I'm glad we're getting things straight
[14:42] now because it was just, it needed it desperately.
[14:46] Are we like three or four years left at the time line or?
[14:50] I think that once this gets cleared up and you can see that the money is coming back in
[14:56] from the state to reimburse you for...
[15:00] You can probably wrap up in a year. It really comes down to it, because it's, you know, you kind of get, okay, we're paying out a lot. We'd like to see some money coming back in for what we've been paying out as far as that goes with the agreement. And so I would say that you, I wouldn't say you slowed down the contractor, but being hesitant and being frugal with, you know, the funds you're funding for them, and this will allow the funds to come back in and get that contract food. And those guys, you know, they'll come back in here and hit
[15:29] you know, a hundred manholes a month or two, you know, at a time.
[15:33] So, that's great.
[15:33] It moves fast when it needs to.
[15:35] So, the contractor on Tennessee is the one that's been doing the work, does fall on the
[15:39] east.
[15:40] We'll continue.
[15:41] Yes, sir.
[15:41] And they, you know, they're good.
[15:43] They've been doing good work.
[15:44] They run out of, that's where their headquarters are on Tennessee, but they've got crews that
[15:49] they run all over North Carolina.
[15:51] And you're pleased with what they did?
[15:52] Oh, yes, ma'am.
[15:53] I recommend them everywhere because we, it's the best product I've seen to use to seal
[15:59] manholes, and it comes with a 10-year warranty that you don't have to touch them for 10 years
[16:06] other than your typical tie-ins and inspections and things like that.
[16:11] It just has been very, very beneficial to all the systems we've recommended in the end.
[16:17] I've got towns that we've done the entire town end, and they've got their infiltration
[16:21] down to about 15% where it was at 85%.
[16:24] That's great.
[16:27] That's good.
[16:28] Oh yeah, it's a 50-year project.
[16:30] Okay.
[16:30] You know how they move a lot of money.
[16:32] It's typical epoxy coating that goes in there.
[16:35] They'll give you a two-year warranty
[16:37] and I've seen that flake off within a year.
[16:39] This stuff I have seen them go back in a couple of years later
[16:43] to fix something that had been scratched or messed up
[16:46] in a manhole and literally pull the casting off
[16:49] because it was attached to it so hard that they could pull it
[16:52] would pull the casting off with.
[16:54] It's a very, it's like a truck bedliner for the inside of the manholes, it seals everything up and gets the leaks fixed.
[17:03] You got a lot of brick manholes, and that's why we use it so.
[17:06] Thank you. Any more questions?
[17:08] Thanks for the conversation.
[17:09] Yeah. If not, do I hear a motion to approve resolution 2026-26 awarding a manhole ceiling contract, the CTR codeings for the ceiling of the 700 sanitary sewer manholes,
[17:22] not do it to see a $1,500,000 suit.
[17:28] All those in favor let it be known by saying aye.
[17:32] The next item is the DWI loan offer
[17:35] for the sewer rehab rehabilitation.
[17:39] Mayor and council, the town received a letter
[17:42] from the Division of Water Infrastructure
[17:49] saying that if we wanted to,
[17:51] We have a $3 million loan offered to us by DWI for 2.45% interest for 20 years that we could do sewer rehabilitation work with.
[18:02] And what that means is we clean and
[18:05] televised approximately 51,000 feet of 8 inch verified clay sewer pipe that's in our sanitation in our sanitary sewer collection system.
[18:17] We had identified damage and bad sections of pipe that need to be repaired.
[18:22] And then we would go ahead and have those repaired, point repaired, or a slip lining to seal them up.
[18:28] And that type of project is called the Fix and Find Sewer Repair Project.
[18:34] So Mike Tulson with MacGain Associates had submitted this to DWI a couple of years back.
[18:42] the first two rounds of funding, we weren't awarded anything.
[18:47] The spring of this year, they made this offer to us.
[18:51] So the question comes back to the council.
[18:55] Does the town want to accept the $3 million low interest loan to do a fine and repair sewer project?
[19:03] Or do we want to pass on it?
[19:05] But the annual loan would, on the full $3 million at the 2.45% interest would have an annual payment of about $190,640.
[19:18] And I put the amortization schedule in the packet along with the letter of offer on the loan.
[19:26] And we have Mike Tulson here, along with our Public Works Director, Jason Glover.
[19:33] He talked about the pros and cons of doing one large project at one time to get it all
[19:40] sealed up versus doing parts and pieces of this with our own funds, so to speak, as we
[19:46] go over time.
[19:47] Talk to us.
[19:50] So the original application was for $7.5 million.
[19:54] The way the scoring structures and things like that.
[20:00] The DWI wind up offering you in this round. This was a reconsideration of a previous application. We did not put in that round for it. And I was very surprised to see any offer whatsoever come in for it. And as I tell most towns that we deal with when there's, you know, $3 million is nothing to, you know, is nothing to laugh at as far as an expense and everything else, but it is alone. And, you know, it is
[20:29] is incredibly generous for them to offer it, but at the same time, it will get a $3 million
[20:36] slug of what we had anticipated was $7.5 million worth of capital work.
[20:40] So it won't get it all.
[20:42] It will get a very large chunk of it, and what we want to find is, you spend quite a bit
[20:49] of money on the front end trying to get 80% of the problem mixed up and then you fixed,
[20:54] and then you wind up having 20% of the problem left, and you could spend three times as much
[20:59] money chasing that last 20 percent. But you haven't had a significant clean and
[21:06] TV and find and fix type project like this in your town and this is since I've
[21:12] been coming to you and talking to you about sewer rehab and everything else.
[21:15] This is the first funding we've really gotten back that's going to be sewer
[21:19] rehab related, looking at the mains, looking at the lines, fixing what we can.
[21:27] We've
[21:28] video that was done as part of the AIA that we just did that we could go and fix the
[21:32] problems we found in that. We couldn't fix them with the AIA money. We could turn around
[21:37] and use this to fix those problems immediately and not do 51,000 feet of video and do 20,000
[21:44] feet somewhere else and search somewhere else in the thing. We did about 25,000 to 30,000
[21:49] feet in the AIA of video. We've got those data and we know what we need to fix out of that.
[21:57] that, you can use these funds to fix those problems and you can fix those today.
[22:04] The real report out of that is that we didn't find terrible smoking guns anywhere where
[22:10] we found, oh there's 50 gallons a minute leak, 10 gallons a minute leak, it was a few
[22:15] roots here, a few broken, you know, but it's in sewer rehab, the name of the game is death
[22:21] by a thousand cuts.
[22:22] You've got a gallon here, you've got a gallon here, you've got five gallons of leak here and
[22:26] those add up and those are what's coming into your system and robbing you of capacity.
[22:32] So to say, going after it with $3 million worth of work is very worth it, what we discussed
[22:41] in our, you know, hey, is it better to just commit $200,000 a year, which is what your annual
[22:47] debt payment would be on it, to go ahead and plan $200,000 a year worth of capital improvement
[22:52] work and slow roll it, you'd be at the same amount. You wouldn't get the benefit of having
[22:58] those leaks fixed today versus doing 120th, 120th, 120th, you know, every year that you
[23:05] did it. And what I have found in municipal budgeting and everything else is that if you
[23:11] have a $200,000 line item that you are reserving for CAP for sewer rehab each year, the minute
[23:17] one pump station goes down, that $200,000 gets you inked because, well, you're not going
[23:22] don't get any sooner you have this year because of this, this at least gets it fixed and
[23:27] you have a debt commitment that you're paying and you fix the problem of the day it gives
[23:31] you the savings today and it keeps you not that any of you guys would make any bad budget
[23:36] decisions but you may wind up having to take that $200,000 a year back for a punctuation
[23:43] that goes bad or this is not there and it's not fixing a problem that you can fix today
[23:48] versus still having it in five years, 10 years, 20 years.
[23:52] And so it's really a choice of whether or not
[23:55] you want to accept the debt capacity.
[23:57] The work needs to be done one way or another,
[24:00] is my opinion and my recommendation to you.
[24:04] It's how you guys want to shake the budget and debt capacity
[24:08] that you're looking at.
[24:10] And we can continue to apply for sewer rehab projects
[24:15] and future applications.
[24:16] That is what I do for a living, but at the same time, you've got this offer on the table that you just need to consider the financial.
[24:23] Does any of this money ever come as a grant?
[24:26] It does. And that's why it's unfortunate. This came in, this was only going to be a $3 million loan from this.
[24:33] We had applied for it to be a grant. This is just the, this is the offer they made.
[24:37] Now, we could turn around and you could deny this money and we could reapply, but you've got $3 million sitting there waiting
[24:44] somebody's offering you, but it's got payment and it's got terms.
[24:47] Well, if we decided to go with this, can we still write a grant for the rest?
[24:52] That's where you could certainly apply for the plan.
[24:54] A plan, that's what I mean.
[24:55] And you know, this is not going to be a problem.
[25:00] We put $3 million at the day and it's never, you're going to have to, every year, you're going to have to pay attention to, you know, able, getting some creep on our, on our infiltration, we need to go and do some sewer rehab, you know, you, you just need a routine and an asset management strategy of finding fixed TV. I mean, it's always going to be, I'll be back in five years with another one. If we, you know, if we did it all day, I'd still be back in five years. Well, the ones we didn't fix five years ago, we need to go TV them and look at them and see how it's going.
[25:28] So, does this decrease our chances of obtaining that grant?
[25:32] Yeah, that's what I was wondering, right?
[25:33] You know, I don't think it would decrease it.
[25:36] I've got towns that I have reapplied, I've gotten it funded with a loan and turned around
[25:41] and reapplied again and gotten it as a grant the next time and you just formally deny the loan
[25:46] port.
[25:47] The reason this came about was they sent the letters of intent to fund and they were asking
[25:52] us, hey, when's your ER due, because the next process is to do an engineering report
[25:57] award and to do all the things that come with procurement and everything else.
[26:01] And so they were calling and saying, hey, I hadn't seen you ER yet, their lines are coming
[26:04] up.
[26:05] Do we need to, you know, what have you decided to do?
[26:07] And they were just trying to get you guys to make a decision on what you were going to do
[26:11] with the funds and stuff.
[26:13] So when it comes, when it comes right down to it, you still need to do the work, it's just
[26:17] you guys decide how you want to, you know, how you want to pay for it in the long term.
[26:21] Three million dollars today would make a large, you know, inroads to fixing a lot of infiltration
[26:27] And it would save you money on your downstream treatment, you know, bill like you typically have.
[26:34] Which that would reflect in this for the citizens, wouldn't it?
[26:37] It would, of course, and you would see, you know, hopefully fewer costs and you wouldn't have your
[26:43] order and super fun and a stretch with, you know, having to come up with search
[26:46] orders or anything like that as much, but I can't tell you that it's going to fix all the problems.
[26:51] And the numbers that are in that description of the 51,000 are based on that seven and a half
[26:56] million dollar application so they gave you half of what they way to ask for or for
[27:01] for you still do the $7.5 million worth of work. So in other words, they didn't give you
[27:06] everything you needed but they gave you what they could give you.
[27:09] So if we do the $3 million and we owe $190,000 plus per year, do we have a projection on what
[27:17] the annual savings would be?
[27:18] I have not run that, and I just need to run those different numbers on it.
[27:26] I need to look at what you're currently seeing so charge-wise.
[27:31] You've also got that manhole ceiling project that's fixing problems from a different angle,
[27:36] so it's a hard moving draw.
[27:38] We can put all of those buckets together, as long as we're receiving enough savings to cover it,
[27:42] I think it's a no-brainer.
[27:43] Well, I need to run those numbers with the finance folks and everything to see, hey,
[27:49] what are you seeing while problems today, fixed today, will give you 20 years until
[27:57] they're possibly a problem again in 20 years, because you have things just there deteriorating
[28:02] assets kind of thing.
[28:04] I would say that the more fixes we can do today, the longer term, you get more savings,
[28:10] you know, long term.
[28:10] So if it doesn't make sense, I just don't know if it can exactly correlate to $190,000 worth of.
[28:16] I may ask the question a different way, maybe it makes, so if we took what you've seen and spent three
[28:23] million on what you've seen, do you have an estimate of what would save us per month or per year?
[28:29] Not as it correlates over to your, I've had to check some numbers before I told you a real savings
[28:36] number, but we can get that. I can, you know, I just don't have it prepared for.
[28:39] What is this answer to?
[28:43] Well, like Mike said, we put it off.
[28:45] This letter came in April of 2021,
[28:48] and they wanted to know in 30 days.
[28:50] I'm sorry, 26.
[28:52] And they wanted to know in 30 days.
[28:55] And we hadn't done anything with it.
[28:57] So what Mike and I have told them
[29:02] is that we were having the meeting today
[29:03] and discussing it.
[29:05] And we would get back to them very shortly after that.
[29:07] Well, I'm asked another question that Kate Burns asked, but different way.
[29:11] Are our points be deducted if we take this on our future grants for the same project?
[29:17] No, no.
[29:18] Each application stands on its own.
[29:19] This was, like I said, this was a reconsideration.
[29:22] When you turn one in, you get two shots at, essentially, is what they look at it this way and
[29:27] you either don't get it in this round and they put that same scoring back into the next
[29:31] consideration.
[29:32] So I don't necessarily follow up with them when we don't get it.
[29:35] And then all of a sudden I'm happily surprised when we find out that we can call you and say hey, they funded this project
[29:42] This is the first one I've ever had that came back and they only funded half of it or a
[29:47] $3 million dollar amount which is
[29:49] Three million is the most they could offer you with the kind of utility that you all versus this versus not being viable utility not have
[30:00] So with that said, you know, the cost per savings, Jason's got some data. He's going to send me that I can help figure that part out. As far as having a decision made, all we really need to do is if you want to continue to consider this, is I can put out requests into the state that your deadlines be moved out and your milestones be moved out and say we're going through some numbers that they were perfectly fine with us, you know, taking it to this meeting today.
[30:29] And I'm going to have to go and do that anyway because your PER for what was due Monday
[30:34] So if but that was up, you know, hey, they give you a very short trigger on hey, you know
[30:39] That's not enough time for you to procure an engineer for you to actually write a PDR for you to actually get something
[30:46] Turned in for them to consider and then once you turn it in in August, they'll have you
[30:53] Hopefully some comments and everything back in January this year was your next milestone going so you know
[30:58] So, not like they're moving real fast up there, so a few months delay here and there, we
[31:03] just let them know what's going on and keep them surprised.
[31:05] They'll be fine with that, where they're required.
[31:07] I haven't seen, no matter if I think they're ready to get very quick results when we've had
[31:11] to extend deadlines on other things, and he gets a response in two days, where I'll be six
[31:17] weeks getting one, because he's with a town, they want to know, they want to know the things
[31:21] like you guys are sending them, so with that said, I can get you that data, I can get you
[31:27] a better correlation but it will be an estimate, it will be, you know, it will be, I don't know
[31:33] if it's going to rain, you know, you guys have a big system, you got a very large outfall
[31:38] it runs right along Stone Creek that is a very flashy creek that would take on water that
[31:43] we feel like is a, you know, a very big source of infiltration when the, when the rivers out,
[31:48] the creeks out of its banks, we're trying to address that, we've got other funding applications
[31:54] out there to try and get that resolved. This won't even touch that because this will
[31:59] fix the stuff in town versus going after that. That's a $13-14 million project out there
[32:05] in Stone Creek. So, you know, we're trying to heal the cuts in town versus, you know, going
[32:11] after the real big one out there that's, we're working on that, but it's a, we've applied
[32:16] for that several times to just have it struck gold, you know, and so.
[32:20] Is this the best you think we're going to get in say the five-year short term?
[32:30] I don't think so.
[32:31] I think if we keep applying, I think the fact that they reconsidered it and it's scored
[32:35] well enough to be awarded a loan at this point means that you're keep trying, keep trying one
[32:41] more shot and one more shot and they've obviously seen that you're working very hard towards
[32:48] that improves every, you know, if we resubmitted this application to that tomorrow, we may get some of it.
[32:55] The fact that you guys are so healthy from a financial standpoint and you do your audit sometime and do all those things
[33:04] and you're not part of the viable utility reserve, which is basically a label that says you need more funding, more principal forgiveness.
[33:14] So it almost, you know, you can't be rewarded for not doing it, you know, rewarded with
[33:19] very good terms on loans because they see you as a good viable physical entity kind of thing.
[33:27] Some of the other towns that I work with, they're not as in good shape physically as you guys are,
[33:32] don't have an enterprise fund, balance like you may have, and unfortunately they need more.
[33:37] And so those guys fill up and take all of the principal forgiveness that we're really looking for
[33:42] from a grant side of things, if that makes sense.
[33:45] And so the fact that they offered you a loan means that they're paying attention to it
[33:50] and you can tell them that the conditions aren't favorable for whatever you want, but
[33:53] what I would tell you is it's on the table.
[33:56] It's $3 million in front of you, but there's just, there's some payment terms on it.
[34:01] We can go back and continue to apply for grants, which I would recommend every period apply
[34:06] for the grants every bit you can give.
[34:08] it's just that, you know, you guys being a responsible
[34:12] tail on physically are very much, very much not going to
[34:18] continue to get loans instead of grant because you're not in
[34:21] dire consequence like a lot of the municipalities that I
[34:24] send on. That's a good thing, but not necessarily the, the
[34:28] noise you guys want to hear.
[34:30] So I'm glad that you keep saying that we're in good, good
[34:33] financial standing and we want to stay that way. We don't
[34:37] don't want to fall in the hole and try to dig our way out.
[34:39] My concern is, it's 20-year-long, and I see the interest that will be paid back through
[34:45] this loan.
[34:46] And my main question is, to rend it, there's 190,000 per year, how bad of an impact will it
[34:52] have on our yearly budget as we, if we put it into the budget?
[34:57] Hopefully we will.
[35:00] Any other department or citizens of Nashville? Can we absorb this comfortably? Well, you know, we're working with the school government right now in a rate study. And one of the things Jason and Tress have been working with the the gals here at the schools is forecasting what we need as far as a capital improvement plan and how much money we'd be spending for that. This $190,000 annual payment could be considered
[35:29] considered our capital improvement plan worked into our rates.
[35:33] When they presented at our budget work session they said that we were okay the way we are,
[35:38] but we're no longer our expenses for
[35:42] water and sewer have increased to the point where we're no longer tucking anything away in
[35:48] fund balance for future projects or replacement projects.
[35:52] So their concern was that we needed to have a rate increase just for that purpose alone.
[35:57] And we did, you know, the Council approved a 15% increase in water and sewer rates.
[36:03] So with this, forces to have to make another increase next year?
[36:10] Well, that rate study will determine that my gut feeling is, for the first couple of years, no.
[36:17] But as the years go on, our annual operating costs continue to rise and rise and rise.
[36:22] And unless you keep your rates continuing to go up,
[36:27] you don't, you don't cover that annual inflation.
[36:33] So it's been four months, I feel certain that staff
[36:38] doesn't feel good about this.
[36:39] So they were brought it to us three months ago.
[36:41] Was that a good statement?
[36:45] Well, be honest with you, I kind of forgot about it.
[36:49] Well, Mike had let me know as soon as it came out.
[36:52] And we were in the midst of getting ready for the budget,
[36:55] preparing for the project and it kind of got pushed to the side and then when he called
[37:00] me two weeks ago and said, hey, you need to decide something on this. They're sending
[37:04] us letters about it. So we have been Jason. So I just have two points to make. One, we've
[37:12] been keeping a spreadsheet since about June of 2024. And I can't give you an exact number.
[37:17] However, I can say with since this work has been going on, we have noticed our track
[37:22] that rainfall, snowfall, the water that we produced with our whales, the water we purchased
[37:27] from Rocky Mountain and the water we sent to Rocky Mountain.
[37:30] And I can tell you that during large rain events, we have seen a decrease over the last
[37:34] two years.
[37:35] So the project is working.
[37:36] I can't give you a numerical.
[37:38] It's 10 percent, 20 percent.
[37:40] But I'm going to share that spreadsheet with Mike Tulson and maybe he can analyze it and
[37:43] give us some raw data points.
[37:46] The second thing I was going to make was this is a lot of money and this is a big decision.
[37:51] However, the cost for CTR token or any other polymer token that we're going to use is increasing
[37:56] yearly.
[37:57] So three, five, seven percent increases, not only for the epoxy because of what's going
[38:02] on overseas, but labor cost, insurance costs, and all that type of stuff.
[38:07] So if we do pass on this and we defer it down to road, it's going to be more expensive,
[38:12] whereas if we get this $3 million now, we can make a huge dent at this price point per
[38:18] in your foot versus pushing this off for 10 years and every year we're going to come
[38:23] and say there's a 3% 5% 7% increase and we're going to keep getting smaller and smaller
[38:29] in your footage amounts done annually until it's almost not worth it and then we're going
[38:33] to come and say well we need 300 or we need 400 or we need 500 we're going to get a lot
[38:37] of a lot of done right now at the price right now but that's council is very aware things
[38:42] are going up with every project that we do.
[38:45] Jason, the materials that we would need to proceed with this, is that something that
[38:52] we could purchase a stockpile at today's price or would we have to purchase it as we
[38:58] needed it?
[38:58] Yes, sir.
[38:59] Yes, sir.
[38:59] I don't know the shelf life of it, but it's something that that company has for proprietary
[39:05] and it's not like we can put it in the warehouse and keep it at today's price.
[39:08] And one of our problems now as a town is we've pushed the can down the road for so many years
[39:14] Then then we're trying to gather together and get things right for our citizens. Yeah, unfortunately
[39:20] Again, Kyle should just gonna keep going up. Well, the biggest question is I agree with you saying but the biggest question is if we can get a
[39:28] $7,000 grant next year that makes it a lot better, but we don't know
[39:32] Certainly, you apply and continue to apply and maybe the next ask is only $3 million and we find a right-size grant application.
[39:42] You know, we put in for what that $51,000 fee is a all the vitrified clay pipe, which is the terracotta pipe in your system, is that was the number we pulled together that said you got $51,000 fee, ten miles of it.
[40:00] That is old deteriorated cracked roots, you know, in front for infiltration. That's what the application was pulled together to do. It was also the TV and video that it was also to, you know, rehab some maybe some line a few wet wells, do those sorts of things that are just included in a sewer rehab project, fix some manhole covers, fix some lids, raise a few lids that are in flood prone areas that wind up taking on water when it rains.
[40:28] but a sewer rehab-minded project, you always needed to adopt a sewer rehab CIP project
[40:39] in some form and just put some money into it every year to have an ongoing sewer rehab.
[40:46] You're required by your state permit to video ten percent of your system a year,
[40:58] So this kind of scratches some of those edges as well and gets a large portion of your
[41:06] system video.
[41:07] We did that as part of your AIA and that's what is going to fix for cleaning and TV.
[41:13] You've got to do that anyway so a sewer rehab, you know, CIP project just continues to build
[41:19] and fix and find and you know you may not fix them every year as part of it but you'll find it
[41:25] this year and put in the budget for next year to fix it you know to fix that one point repair
[41:29] or to line this point and you just make those decisions on an annual basis and you get into the
[41:35] routine of every year I've got paint the house every year I've got to clean the gutter you know
[41:39] you're cleaning the gutter essentially you know you got to do it because leaves keep coming you know
[41:43] kind of thing. And the flexibility you mentioned the laws that Sue related we can do with that
[41:48] We're not limited to certain things with the loan.
[41:52] Well, the scope is going to be specifically written to that description that's in there.
[41:57] So what we'll do is that they'll award a project to do that kind of fine to fix.
[42:02] They don't care where it is in the system, but it's going to be clean TV, point repair line.
[42:09] You know, it's going to be sewer main rehab related.
[42:13] It won't be a lift station replacement unless I specifically have it in that list.
[42:17] I don't think I do have, but you mentioned it says find the repair but we could we could already we can repair what we already found
[42:23] Is that that's right? That's right. We'll go ahead and we'll fix what we found in the TV portion of the AIA video
[42:30] We got we know where those are we can fix those today and we'll use whatever budget is left over you know to you know
[42:38] Well
[42:47] Do you think taking on this debt would actually help our future applications?
[42:55] Yes, only in the small little bit on the application, we can mention that you've got own going sewer rehab, and you are, you've found more problems, we'll use it as a argument in the narrative that says, you know, town is invested considerably because you have in condition evaluation and asset, you know, rate studies and asset improvement plans.
[43:18] You've got a proactive approach to clean and TV, you've done self-funding and DWI funded
[43:26] AIA programs that have ConditionScore of GIS and really exactly what the state wants
[43:33] to see you being proactive to maintain.
[43:36] So yes, it would help you, it wouldn't be, although they get eight points for that when
[43:41] you're scoring their application, but it does get considered and it helps to show that
[43:46] you are proactive in it instead of having let this happen to you and all of a sudden we
[43:51] need $40 million to fix everything.
[43:53] But if we found something in that search, we could actually use that on a future grant
[43:58] application.
[43:59] Is that?
[43:59] Oh, yes, sir.
[44:00] I mean, that's what we would use to justify future grant applications is this is the ongoing
[44:05] process.
[44:06] They TVed this much.
[44:07] We didn't have enough money to line everything, so we got, we need more funds for this.
[44:12] and that when they see the problem is there to be fixed and you're asking for the funds
[44:16] more grant, more loan.
[44:18] It may come back as loan, that's all based on a financial, you know, stability kind
[44:23] of rates, where your rates was this, was that, but you guys are right there in that sweet
[44:28] spot of, hey, this could go grant, it could go principal forgiveness, depending on how
[44:33] good application we write, and how good of justification we do, we put you in that upper
[44:38] where you get principal forgiveness before it's all gone away.
[44:42] And the last couple of times that they've had grant applications,
[44:44] we've seen $14, $15 million applications come in from big towns
[44:50] that are getting all loaned because they're in a physical place
[44:53] where they can physically pay that out of their...
[45:00] All they've got to do is raise their rates, ten cents or one percent in order to make an extra $5 million a month because it's rally, it's carry, it's big, big tains. And you guys have a big enough system to where you're getting into you have a lot of maintenance issues, but you don't necessarily have the number of connections that a big system, like a real big system, like a five wastewater plants and five, you know, those sorts of things that are rally or Charlotte deals with. I mean, I've seen $30 million
[45:28] dollar applications go in and get approved but it's all granite or not I mean it's all loan but
[45:35] some of it gets to be a little bit of principle forgiveness because they qualified over here for
[45:40] these points or those points. So you I mean every application is very unique and individual and I
[45:48] think it's just a we do a better job of writing one that gets you a better mix like I said in this
[45:53] last funding right on it would pray. All it was left was the loan. So if we waited two weeks and
[45:59] got more information, we were okay.
[46:03] Ray, I feel like you could be out. Yeah. Yeah. We can do that.
[46:06] We get the numbers. My inclination is we go for this, but I would love to see just what the projected
[46:10] annual savings will be. Yeah. I'll have you that in a few days. So you're ready for the next meeting.
[46:14] I apologize. I should have had it today and just I did not did not follow up well enough to be
[46:18] ready for this. I apologize. Should we just continue? Should we get the numbers? I think so.
[46:23] I mean, that being said, Mayor, I would suggest that we hold off on it right now until we get out, get some numbers so we can look at what we're into.
[46:33] Let's just make sure we're not messing up any deadlines.
[46:35] And let's hold it out until we lose the deadline, or that's a lot of money to pay us up.
[46:40] I feel confident that's not going to be a problem, but I'll send an email to people that were asking me to where's the set.
[46:47] And if there is a deadline, just contact us individually.
[46:49] If you've gotten it two more weeks, if you've got another meeting in two more weeks, that won't be up.
[46:54] That won't even be up.
[46:55] We do, right?
[46:56] Do you have information, but I have to have it ready to mix, so you stay to go outside.
[47:03] Well, this is the only way.
[47:04] And thank you so much, Michael, for coming together.
[47:06] I think if we had that information a little bit, a couple days later, it would be okay, I think.
[47:13] Yeah, we can get the rest of it to us, but.
[47:15] Well, he could come, he could come and present the answer.
[47:18] And I'll take care of that.
[47:20] She's referring to us wanting information ahead time.
[47:22] So I think we can delay that a couple of days
[47:24] if we need to.
[47:26] So do I hear a second to his, like you all
[47:29] does in favor let it be done by saying hi.
[47:31] Hi.
[47:32] And I think that does it for us today.
[47:35] I would just like to remind everybody
[47:36] that Xavier's Memorial Service will be Friday at Union Hill
[47:43] from 6 to 8 and then at Northern Nash on Saturdays beginning at 12.
[47:49] But keep this family in your prayers.
[47:51] We thank those of you that came out today.
[47:54] We appreciate you coming out and appreciate those of you online watching us.
[47:58] Do you have any comments?
[48:00] Mayor, before we dismiss, in reference to our fellow councilman Xavier Harrison, I would
[48:06] like to offer and make a point of record that we consider appointing his widow to fulfill
[48:12] his turn out to the end of his turn, she has already expressed that she would like to do it in his honor, and I think she'd be a prime person.
[48:22] We've already set presence in years past by appointing widows of people that have passed on, so I will offer that up for the Council to consider appointing her.
[48:31] Okay, thank you so much.
[48:34] Any other? If not, do I hear a motion to adjourn?
[48:37] move to adjourn. Second. Second. All those in favor, let me know by saying aye.
[48:43] Aye. And don't forget we do have council people to head out to them.