[0:33] Okay.
[0:33] Hello everyone. Welcome to the select board meeting
[0:35] for August 11th.
[0:37] We are gonna start our meeting with
[0:41] this notice about this meeting being broadcast
[0:43] by the Needham Channel for the Town's YouTube channel,
[0:47] and recorded for later viewing.
[0:52] I think the Needham Observer
[0:54] and the Needham Local are with us recording.
[0:56] Is anybody else in the room recording?
[0:59] Time to tell the chairs now?
[1:01] Okay, then apologies for the late start,
[1:04] just working out some technical difficulties.
[1:06] And now we will move to our first agenda item
[1:08] with which is public comment.
[1:10] And I will ask Avery Newton to join us here at the table
[1:13] for our first public comment.
[1:19] Just introduce yourself, remind us of your address,
[1:24] and we're gonna ask you to wrap up in about three minutes.
[1:27] You can do great. And apologies for the noise outside.
[1:30] I had thought this was seven.
[1:31] I set up childcare accordingly. So
[1:33] No, the noise is The noise Is the light?
[1:35] Good, good. Good evening and good to see you.
[1:38] Members of the select board.
[1:40] My name is Avery Newton and I live at 69 Howlin Street.
[1:43] For those of you in this room who may not be aware,
[1:47] basala Art in the heart of Needham Center
[1:48] and staffed by my next door neighbors will soon be home,
[1:50] become home to the Town's 18th Bank branch.
[1:54] I know I'm not alone and feeling frustrated
[1:56] and a little defeated by this news, but
[1:57] before I go further, I want to be clear.
[1:59] My concern is not with Village Bank specifically.
[2:02] My concern is with the systems
[2:03] and structures that allowed us to get
[2:04] to number 18 in the first place, not
[2:06] who number 18 happens to be.
[2:08] Restaurants, cafes, small businesses, markets,
[2:11] and third spaces are destinations.
[2:12] They bring people downtown, encourage them to stay longer
[2:15] and support neighboring businesses.
[2:17] Banks provide an important service,
[2:19] but they are not destinations, they're institutions.
[2:21] They generate far less foot traffic
[2:23] and far fewer opportunities for people
[2:25] to shop, dine, or linger.
[2:27] In other words, it's not just a destination we're losing,
[2:29] but also a meaningful portion of the customer base
[2:31] that neighboring businesses rely on.
[2:34] The supporting research is remarkably
[2:35] consistent and available here.
[2:37] If anyone's interested, independent local businesses
[2:40] recirculate substantially more
[2:41] of their revenue within the local economy than national
[2:44] chains and large institutions up to two to four x.
[2:46] As we approach the critically important Pollard vote,
[2:49] this is the type of revenue that we all depend on
[2:51] to sustain our schools, our parks, our tax base,
[2:53] and ultimately the community itself.
[2:56] Finally, and perhaps most significantly,
[2:58] there is a profound irony here.
[3:00] Landlords generally view corporate banks
[3:01] as safe low risk tenants,
[3:03] but in chasing that short term safety,
[3:05] they actually risk hollowing out the very foot traffic
[3:07] and business diversity that makes Needham commercial real
[3:09] estate so valuable in the first place.
[3:12] With all that said, I want to look to the future
[3:14] and encourage the select board
[3:15] and other town leaders to consider some solutions.
[3:17] Knowing that no one can control who a landlord decides
[3:19] to rent to first zoning
[3:22] and land use, I'd ask the select board
[3:24] and planning board to explore ground floor use restrictions
[3:26] or conditional use permits for banks
[3:28] and other large financial
[3:29] institutions in our commercial core.
[3:31] Cambridge did exactly this in Central Square back in 2017
[3:34] after realizing that bank Oversaturation specifically was
[3:38] negatively impacting both the retail diversity
[3:40] and the overall economic health of the of the area.
[3:43] Second, financial incentives for commercial properties.
[3:46] I'd encourage the town to explore vacancy fees
[3:48] for storefronts sitting empty, unleaded paired
[3:50] with a split rate to commercial tax exemption for landlords
[3:54] who lease to local merchants.
[3:56] I understand that a small business popup program may already
[3:58] be in the works for this space,
[3:59] and I'm eager to see if that
[4:00] arrangement could be scaled as well.
[4:03] Third and finally, policies supportive
[4:05] of small local businesses to help lower the cost
[4:08] of doing business in Needham.
[4:09] This could include establishing a BuyRight approval process
[4:12] for independent shops or cafes under a certain size
[4:15] or raving first year permitting fees
[4:16] for local entrepreneurs.
[4:18] My overall point is this.
[4:20] We don't need 18 different places to store our money.
[4:22] We need more places that make this
[4:24] wonderful town a community.
[4:25] I humbly ask that town leadership consider exploring one
[4:28] or several of these policies to help promote some
[4:30] of the vitality that we have continued
[4:31] to lose under these current practices. Thank you.
[4:34] Thanks, Avery. Spike, the
[4:38] Appreciate it and hopefully within within three minutes.
[4:41] Perfect. Thank you for your time. Perfect.
[4:44] All right, so we're gonna invite Cory Wilke, come on up.
[4:49] See? Thank you. Hi, Corey. Nice to see you.
[4:52] Nice to see you. Thank you. Members of the board,
[4:54] my name's Corey Wilke.
[4:56] I live at six Wayne Road in Needham.
[4:59] I have two children in the school system,
[5:01] and I am speaking as a member of the Needham
[5:04] and Baseball softball, Needham Baseball
[5:06] and Softball Board as both the director of RSB, which is one
[5:09] of our baseball programs
[5:11] and is the Vice President of baseball operations.
[5:13] Having assumed that position when Chris Gerstel resigned
[5:17] from the board a year ago.
[5:19] I submitted a letter today to you guys on top of a couple
[5:22] of emails, but I'd like
[5:24] to just touch briefly within three minutes
[5:26] or less upon the urgent need that we have,
[5:28] which is the renovation repair memorial field
[5:31] with a turf in field grass Outfield
[5:34] Needham currently has only three big diamond baseball fields
[5:37] down from four several years ago when McLeod Field was
[5:40] converted to softball, a decision never presented
[5:43] to the NBA sport for input, despite Chris Gerst.
[5:46] Then simultaneously being the Parks and Rec commissioner
[5:49] and the VP of baseball ops
[5:51] and being involved in that project from inception
[5:53] to completion, most members
[5:55] of the board did not find out about it until it was done.
[5:59] We face a similar problem at a greater scale
[6:01] because Warner Field, one
[6:02] of the three remaining big diamonds, is slated to serve
[6:04] as a staging area for the Pollard Middle School Project,
[6:07] which we support, and we could go offline within 12
[6:10] to 24 months, leaving only two big diamonds, one
[6:13] of which Walker Gordon doesn't meet dimensional requirements
[6:16] for varsity baseball
[6:17] and immemorial is typically unusable
[6:20] as it cannot handle adverse weather.
[6:22] As an example, varsity was only able to practice on
[6:24] that field approximately 25% of the days
[6:27] this PA, this past year.
[6:29] So we desperately need assistance from the town.
[6:31] With respect to field maintenance costs,
[6:34] MBS spends significant amounts of money on
[6:36] outside contractors to maintain our fields.
[6:38] This was an arrangement initiated seven years ago by Mr.
[6:41] Geral. We surveyed 15 period communities only Weston's Youth
[6:46] Baseball Board contributed in any meaningful way,
[6:48] and then at a significantly lower scale than us.
[6:51] We have paid on average $70,000 a year towards fields over
[6:54] the past five years plus user fees.
[6:57] We've only been able to find one town
[6:58] that contributed more than 5,000 on average.
[7:01] We also pay a higher user fee than most
[7:04] or almost all other towns,
[7:06] and we receive significantly fewer services in terms
[7:08] of town raking lining, game prep, or wet field prep.
[7:12] Currently, our middle school team does not have a diamond.
[7:15] Our freshman are often canceled
[7:17] because varsity needs to go to Warner
[7:19] and JV then to Walker Gordon.
[7:21] Without Warner, we'll have four teams competing for two
[7:24] and without a memorial rehab, often one diamond
[7:27] that's not taken into account, the 10
[7:28] or so little league big Diamond teams.
[7:31] The two Legion teams are the four Rocket selects teams
[7:33] that all play on the big diamonds.
[7:36] This is an urgent need
[7:37] and we really hope that the town can complete the Memorial
[7:40] Field Project in 2027.
[7:43] We're also hoping
[7:44] to find a short term third diamond while Warner is offline,
[7:49] maybe through town connections of Babson or St.
[7:52] Sebs, ensure
[7:53] that Warner will actually be brought back online as soon
[7:56] as possible when staging is done,
[7:57] and identify a location
[7:59] for a fourth diamond in the long term,
[8:01] because three hasn't been sustainable for us.
[8:04] The letter today includes more detail then I can express in
[8:06] these three minutes, which I think just ended.
[8:08] So I'm happy to do anything further.
[8:10] That would help. Thank you. Thanks.
[8:11] Thanks, Corey. And the
[8:12] we'll be reaching out to you to get Okay. Thank you
[8:14] Very much. To put
[8:15] Some discussion Together.
[8:16] Thank you. Okay.
[8:20] All right. And the last public comment that we're aware
[8:25] of tonight is Bill Looney.
[8:28] Come on up. Thanks for being here tonight.
[8:33] Thank you. Your name and your address, please.
[8:36] Good evening. My name is Bill Looney.
[8:38] I live at two 13 Garden Street in Needham.
[8:40] I'm joined by mini neighbors here tonight,
[8:45] and we ask that the select board not endorse a 1 93 Garden
[8:48] Street Project as it is proposed.
[8:51] We attended the April 28th select board meeting
[8:53] with the same request and with the ferry.
[8:56] Same concerns. We've had communication with Mr.
[8:59] Aldi since the last select board meeting,
[9:02] but there have been no changes to the proposed project,
[9:05] and there have been no other actions taken
[9:06] to address the neighborhood concerns
[9:08] since this process began.
[9:11] It's been frustrating to say the least.
[9:14] I believe the neighborhood is supportive of a sensibly sized
[9:17] friendly 40 B project at the development at the site,
[9:21] but the developer proposes to build ten five bedroom homes
[9:26] on a single family lot in a single family neighborhood.
[9:30] Simply put, the size
[9:32] and scale of this proposed project is grossly oversized
[9:36] for the lot and outta scale for the neighborhood.
[9:40] This unreasonable scale raises numerous environmental
[9:43] zoning, safety and neighborhood deficiencies.
[9:48] Late last week, a number of neighbors submitted letters
[9:50] to the town manager
[9:51] and to the select board outlining our serious
[9:53] concerns about the project.
[9:56] These concerns include the following, numerous building
[9:59] and zoning issues focused on density, building height,
[10:03] parking, adequacy, and circulation,
[10:05] and lack of disability access, safety issues,
[10:08] including first responder access
[10:10] and fire safety, accessibility,
[10:13] serious environmental concerns.
[10:15] The property is adjacent to conservation areas and wetlands.
[10:19] The project will require substantial grading,
[10:21] vegetation removal, expanded impervious areas,
[10:24] intensive habitat disturbance into the wetlands area
[10:27] and its buffer zones.
[10:29] And in order to expand the lot's buildable area,
[10:32] the developer proposes
[10:33] to construct a massive retaining wall adjacent
[10:36] to the wetlands to fill in the gully
[10:38] that drops down into the wetland area.
[10:41] And fourth, there's a lack of detail and review.
[10:45] We ask that the select board be cautious in considering a
[10:48] project with so many concerns
[10:50] and very little information to address those concerns.
[10:55] We know Mr. Aldi builds nice homes,
[10:57] and we ask that the development at 1 93 Garden Street be
[11:01] appropriate for the neighborhood, the neighborhood.
[11:03] Ask that the select board please not endorse the project
[11:06] as it is proposed.
[11:07] There are so many serious deficiencies
[11:09] that it's not possible to come up with a list of conditions
[11:12] that could remedy this proposal.
[11:15] We believe the developer should go back to the drawing board
[11:17] and submit a pro and submit a project that's suitable
[11:21] for the lot for the neighborhood
[11:22] and for the town. Thank you.
[11:24] Thank you. Okay.
[11:28] Is there anyone else in the room who came with the intent
[11:31] of making public comment?
[11:34] All right. Anyone online? I don't see any hands. No. Okay.
[11:39] Thanks everyone. All right.
[11:41] So the first item on our agenda is the 2026
[11:45] International Overdose Awareness Day proclamation.
[11:49] And for that, we'll turn to the vice chair,
[11:52] Certainly.
[11:54] Whereas International Overdose Awareness Day aims
[11:57] to bring communities together
[11:58] to remember without stigma those who have died from overdose
[12:01] and acknowledge the grief of the family
[12:03] and friends left behind.
[12:04] And whereas observance of this day is an opportunity
[12:07] to raise awareness about the risk of overdose,
[12:09] promote discussion about prevention,
[12:11] and share information about support services.
[12:14] And whereas addiction is a disease
[12:16] that touches families in every community,
[12:18] the epidemic has claimed the lives of thousands
[12:20] of Massachusetts residents
[12:22] and affected countless other family members.
[12:24] And whereas those affected by overdose are our children,
[12:27] our parents, our siblings,
[12:28] and deserve our compassion and support.
[12:31] And whereas the town of Needham, Massachusetts does affirm
[12:34] and acknowledge the pain
[12:35] and hardship caused by drug overdose, now
[12:38] therefore be it resolved that August 27th, 2026,
[12:41] be declared International Overdose Awareness
[12:43] Day in the town of Needham.
[12:46] Madam Chair, I would move
[12:47] that the board votes will approve
[12:49] and sign the 2026 International Overdose
[12:51] Awareness Day proclamation
[12:53] Second.
[12:55] All right. Any discussion? Okay.
[12:59] All of our votes will be roll called,
[13:02] because we have a member remote.
[13:03] So Kathy, I'm gonna start with you. Oh,
[13:05] Wait, I just, one thought there is overdose
[13:08] awareness night coming up.
[13:10] Thank You. On August 27th. Seventh 27th.
[13:13] At Memorial Park. At Memorial Park.
[13:14] Thank you.
[13:19] So we have a, a motion on the table
[13:23] and we'll go to a vote.
[13:25] Kathy? Yes. Bill? Yes.
[13:30] Josh? Yes. Kevin.
[13:32] Aye. And I vote yes as well. So the motion passes.
[13:36] Thank you. All right.
[13:39] Next we have a public hearing, a Eversource grant
[13:42] of location for 77 Wellesley Avenue.
[13:44] I imagine we're gonna be joined by Joanne Calendar.
[13:48] And is Mike Bakari in the room? I believe he's online.
[13:51] We're online. Okay. Fantastic. Thank you.
[13:54] Mike Bakari from Precision Contracting.
[13:59] Hi, Joanne.
[14:04] Okay, Joanne, just say hello.
[14:05] I'm not sure we can hear you. Oh, no, we're not hearing you.
[14:10] Hang on one sec. Try again.
[14:16] Hmm. Nothing yet. Nothing yet.
[14:18] Nothing. Hello? Everyone good?
[14:21] I heard him. Oh, there we go. Okay. Fantastic.
[14:23] Hi, Joanne. You
[14:25] Can hear me now?
[14:26] Yes, we can hear you now. Thank you. Okay.
[14:28] Can, can you tell us about this grant of location?
[14:31] Sure. So let's see. Try that again.
[14:34] We actually sent an updated package yesterday
[14:37] because there was some changes to the poll
[14:39] that Eversource will be providing service from.
[14:42] Okay. So, and I noticed in the packet
[14:45] that the clerk sent out,
[14:46] she did not include the newest plan.
[14:49] I sent it over minutes ago.
[14:51] I don't know if you received it,
[14:52] but at, so at this point,
[14:55] Eversource is seeking the grand location to install,
[14:57] install approximately 17 feet of conduit
[15:00] into Wellesley Avenue.
[15:01] And that's from Pole 61 11.
[15:06] And that is to provide underground service
[15:09] to the new home at 77 Wellesley Avenue.
[15:13] Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Joanne.
[15:15] Okay, so yeah,
[15:17] it looks like quite a few changes, Madam Town Manager.
[15:22] Is everything in order here?
[15:24] Unfortunately, the work was completed.
[15:26] Well, initial work was done
[15:28] before the grant location, and that's why we have Mr.
[15:31] Bakari here. And just to note for the board in your packet,
[15:34] you do have the most updated that Ms.
[15:35] Calendar just referenced. Okay.
[15:37] So you're looking at the updated requests.
[15:39] I Think the poll is four,
[15:41] not a different poll in the packet.
[15:44] Yeah, I think when the clerk sent it over yesterday,
[15:46] she sent the engineer sketch, not the actual plan.
[15:50] So I don't know if you have the plan in your packet
[15:53] that shows the 17th feet of conduit coming from 61 over 11.
[15:58] Yeah, I see a sketch, I think.
[16:00] Yeah. So you didn't get, I I emailed it, like I said,
[16:03] around five 30, but I wasn't convinced you would receive it.
[16:06] Sure. I can pull it up on my screen if, if you can see
[16:09] that I, yeah.
[16:11] Can you, can you see it? I
[16:12] Think I, I mean, for me,
[16:14] the sketch is adequate personally,
[16:17] but I, I guess I do have a question.
[16:19] So if we've changed polls,
[16:22] but some of the work was already done, can,
[16:24] can you help us understand where work was done
[16:28] and if it has to be undone or redone?
[16:31] No. So the, the customer did install the conduit from the
[16:34] correct pole from 61 over 11.
[16:37] So it's, the 17 feet of conduit is already present. Okay.
[16:41] We just had it wrong on our sketch.
[16:43] We were coming all the way down the street from a different
[16:45] pole, and we were looking for over a hundred feet
[16:48] of conduit, which just was not correct.
[16:50] Okay. So I'm glad
[16:54] that the work was done correctly.
[16:55] However, Mr.
[16:59] Bakari, perhaps you can help us understand
[17:03] how the work was done ahead of the grant
[17:04] of location that's required.
[17:08] So, truthfully, it was an oversight on
[17:12] my end and the,
[17:16] the electrician's end as well.
[17:18] We were under the impression that we were supposed
[17:21] to lay the conduit down, bring it to
[17:24] the handhold before the pole.
[17:26] The hand hole is just basically a, a box
[17:28] before the pole, get it inspected,
[17:31] and then get in touch with Eversource to come out,
[17:33] do the survey, and then have this grant of, right.
[17:41] Now, obviously we understand that that is the wrong order.
[17:46] Have you done, have you done work in Needham before?
[17:49] I've done plenty of work in Needham before,
[17:51] but truthfully, this is my first underground,
[17:55] my first underground service that I'm doing.
[17:57] Typically, it's always overhead.
[18:00] Okay, thank you.
[18:03] We were about, I think we're about,
[18:06] I think we're about five feet short, so it was kind
[18:09] of last minute that we had to decide to
[18:13] do an underground service as opposed to an overhead.
[18:17] Okay. Thank you for that explanation.
[18:21] Do any of my colleagues have any questions
[18:23] or comments, Jill?
[18:25] So, so if Joanne, the, that one 15 feet
[18:28] that was originally proposed,
[18:30] not none of that was ever done.
[18:31] Right?
[18:33] That was not, they only, they came from
[18:38] the private property, if you will, of over
[18:40] to the pole 61 over 11. Okay.
[18:42] Thank you. The pole is right at the end
[18:45] of our property, if that helps with you.
[18:48] I don't know if you have the, the slot plan in
[18:51] front of you. Yeah.
[18:52] Okay. I'm gonna open this.
[18:55] This is a public hearing, so I'm gonna open this up.
[18:57] The public comment, if there's anyone in the room
[18:59] who came here in order to discuss this matter.
[19:05] Okay. It appears not, is there anyone
[19:06] online who's here for this matter?
[19:08] No, there's not. Okay. All right. So Mr.
[19:13] Bakari, what? I thought I saw something.
[19:16] Oh, Mr.
[19:18] Bakari, the, we, we need to ensure that you are,
[19:25] that the grant of location is taken care of prior
[19:27] to the work being done in all cases.
[19:29] You know? Yes. It ensures safety, it ensures
[19:34] that the work is gonna be done properly.
[19:36] It ensures that there's no property issues.
[19:41] So I just, mistakes happen. Yeah.
[19:45] And I, I hear your explanation
[19:47] that this was your first underground one,
[19:48] but I just wanna make sure that you understand
[19:50] that in the future, this is the first stop
[19:53] and the work has to come second.
[19:55] Yes, definitely. And we just, just to
[19:59] reiterate a little bit too, it was,
[20:00] we did have the electrical inspector come out
[20:03] and inspect it as well just to, you know, solidify
[20:06] that all the, the work was done properly.
[20:08] I think the biggest mistake for me was the process
[20:13] coming to you first and then feeling involved.
[20:17] This, we just always wanna make sure that, you know,
[20:20] the neighbors have an opportunity
[20:21] to weigh in if there's anything
[20:23] that they're concerned about, et cetera.
[20:25] It's just public access and engagement. Absolutely.
[20:27] That's required. So, alright, so I guess
[20:31] the work has been done
[20:35] and in done on the correct poll,
[20:37] so we can all be glad for that.
[20:39] Does anyone have any comments they'd like to make?
[20:41] It seems like we've seen this a couple times now.
[20:44] And do we publicize well or why, what?
[20:47] I don't understand why it keeps happening.
[20:49] I guess I, and I guess so that's my question.
[20:52] Then the other question is, you know, do we keep track
[20:56] of people who do the work before they come here?
[20:59] Because if they ever come back a second time,
[21:02] I really would not be that favorable.
[21:05] Yes. But I don't know what we can do.
[21:07] That's a good question. Thanks for the question.
[21:11] So maybe three years ago we had a whole slew
[21:15] of work being done before a grant of location.
[21:17] And so the board at the time had asked us
[21:19] to make operational improvements to figure out
[21:21] how we can better educate all of the parties.
[21:24] I'd say part of the issue is that
[21:28] each party is losing sight of the other piece of the puzzle.
[21:32] So a contractor has a building permit through the town,
[21:36] sometimes an electrical permit, they have
[21:39] to request from Eversource, an Eversource field agent
[21:42] to go out on the scene.
[21:43] If they wanna do underground, the Eversource team goes out,
[21:48] does the initial sketch.
[21:50] And a lot of times what we're hearing from contractors was,
[21:52] well, Eversource came out and they gave me this sketch
[21:55] and so that's the work that I'm gonna do.
[21:57] So we instituted a lot of process improvements,
[22:00] understanding that that was maybe giving contractors
[22:04] and not a clear understanding that then the, the grant
[22:06] of location comes to the select board actually
[22:08] through Eversource, not through the contractor themselves.
[22:12] And that then the work should continue from there.
[22:14] So some of the improvements that we made from that time was
[22:17] we met with Eversource, we became fast friends
[22:19] with Miss Calendar, and one of the things
[22:22] that we requested is when the Eversource team goes out on
[22:26] site, that they let us know
[22:27] that they've been out in the field with someone so
[22:29] that we could just give a call to the contractor
[22:31] and say, Hey, we know that you met with Eversource,
[22:33] but you should know that, that there's more steps to come.
[22:39] But the other piece is making sure we educate on our
[22:42] own materials.
[22:44] So when you apply for a building permit, now you have
[22:46] to indicate whether you're going overground
[22:48] or underground overhead or underground.
[22:51] And on our building permit page, there's language on there
[22:55] that says, if you're going underground, here's the grant
[22:58] of location requirement.
[22:59] So it's built into our permitting system
[23:02] and you know, the obligation at the end
[23:03] of the day really is on the permit polar.
[23:06] So I'll, I'll note that on the, the plans that we have,
[23:11] I mean, it is highlighted in bright yellow
[23:14] that says the electrician to wait for grant of location
[23:17] before completing work to pull. So
[23:20] It, and I wanna acknowledge Eversource made
[23:21] that change at our request from a few years
[23:24] back. They added that text
[23:25] To the, which is, which is great.
[23:27] But yeah, maybe, maybe, I mean,
[23:31] it it seems pretty, is this what they're giving to the,
[23:36] okay, so then, then I guess the folks aren't reading.
[23:40] I mean it, you know,
[23:43] 'cause it, it, it's on both pages highlighted.
[23:46] Right?
[23:48] Put it in red. It did. I mean,
[23:51] It, it's actually, I mean, it's actually yellow.
[23:54] It's outlined in red and highlighted in yellow.
[23:57] It's hard, it's hard to imagine how someone could,
[24:01] could kind of miss it, honestly. Well,
[24:03] In, in this situation, when Eversource went out there,
[24:06] the work had already been done.
[24:08] So we, we didn't have the sketch to hand to the customer
[24:12] 'cause the work had already been done. Oh,
[24:14] Okay. Good. Good
[24:15] Point.
[24:16] Could I, could I, could I say one thing just as the Sure.
[24:19] Help Us kind of Yeah.
[24:20] Just to kind of get real life scenario please.
[24:25] I, I, I do think that there is a disconnect
[24:29] from the contractor slash electrician
[24:34] to the permit pulling process
[24:39] where I, you know, when we pull the permit,
[24:43] there isn't anything that, you know, really is like,
[24:47] not in your face, but showing you, hey,
[24:50] you have to go through this step.
[24:53] You know, like when we, when we go to pull a permit, we have
[24:56] to upload a bunch of requirements, right.
[24:58] You know, we have to upload the site plan,
[25:01] the permit drawing, I mean the architectural drawings.
[25:04] And there's nothing that really says, Hey, you need
[25:07] this plan from Eversource to move forward.
[25:11] Okay. So it was, I I will say like it, for me, doing the as
[25:15] as this being my first time doing a underground service,
[25:19] I was a little confused, taken back, I guess
[25:22] with the process because it wasn't
[25:27] really straightforward for us on our end.
[25:31] Once I spoke with Eversource, it was very easy
[25:33] and very straightforward, but I did not know
[25:36] that process beforehand.
[25:38] Okay. Well I appreciate that perspective.
[25:41] We'll have to discuss this internally to see if there's any,
[25:46] I hate to, I hate to belabor, but I'm madam chair,
[25:48] but I'm wondering if we have, on the permit, we say,
[25:51] are you going overground and underground?
[25:52] I don't know if it says on that permit, if it says next
[25:55] to the underground, if you're going underground, you need
[25:58] to get the grant of location.
[26:00] I Believe it does, but I'm gonna triple check now
[26:02] and if not, we can definitely update it. Yeah,
[26:04] Yeah.
[26:05] Sorry to pull on.
[26:05] No, no, I, I mean it's,
[26:08] we wanna figure this out, so I appreciate it.
[26:11] Okay. So
[26:14] With all that said, I would move that, thank you.
[26:18] Sign a petition from Eversource Energy
[26:20] to install approximately 17 feet
[26:22] of conduit in Wellesley Ave. Second.
[26:26] Okay, great. Can I just reconfirm at the town manager
[26:28] so we have that documentation, the correct, the,
[26:33] the, the correct book
[26:35] that has been done in the correct location.
[26:36] 'cause I, I'm, I'm fine with approving it now,
[26:39] but in 10, 15, however many years from now,
[26:41] we wanna make sure that yeah, we know
[26:43] where the work is under our street, our sidewalks.
[26:47] Yes. Based on the plans, the updated plans
[26:49] of the 17 feet. Is that what you're asking?
[26:51] And from the correct pole? Yes.
[26:52] Okay. Yes. Engineering's fully in the loop. Yes.
[26:55] Thank you.
[26:57] All right. So we have the motion on the table then,
[27:00] and I will start with Kathy.
[27:03] Yes. Bill? Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin? Yes.
[27:09] And the chair votes? Yes.
[27:10] So hearing I already, I already, we already did that.
[27:14] Didn't forget. Thanks Bill.
[27:17] All right, so the motion passes and we can move along.
[27:19] Thank you both. Thank you for joining us. Have a good night.
[27:22] You all have a great night. Thank you. Thank you.
[27:25] Okay, the next item on our agenda is
[27:28] Steven Palmer jurisdiction update.
[27:29] And for that we'll turn to our town manager.
[27:32] Thank you Madam Chair.
[27:34] At your last meeting, we discussed a recent vote
[27:36] of the school committee regarding their interest in
[27:39] retaining jurisdiction over the
[27:40] Stephen Palmer property and Building.
[27:43] And the copy of their exact vote is in your packet.
[27:47] But from there, based on the board's discussion
[27:49] in at your July meeting, I drafted an initial MOA to try to
[27:55] kind of codify some of the responsibilities that were
[27:59] articulated or requested in the school committee vote.
[28:02] So I won't review the where as is, which tries
[28:06] to just put the history and the facts down clearly.
[28:09] But the commitments in the MOA
[28:11] for the board's consideration,
[28:12] and I'd be looking for your feedback, is an agreement
[28:17] that the select board would agree to assume responsibility
[28:21] for supporting existing Stephen Palmer tenants in
[28:23] relocating, winding down the current residential use
[28:26] and managing the Stephen Palmer Building
[28:27] and Parcel until the building is vacant.
[28:32] Item two, the school committee
[28:33] through the superintendent will prepare
[28:35] and submit capital requests for the property for FY 28
[28:38] through 32 capital improvement plan based on the
[28:41] anticipated use of the building.
[28:43] Item three, the town manager,
[28:46] I would request funding in the fiscal year 2028 operating
[28:49] budget that whatever is needed to maintain,
[28:52] operate, and ensure the building.
[28:54] And I would say a lot of that will also be driven by,
[28:57] if the select board is making decisions under item one about
[29:02] the wind down of the residential use
[29:04] and how we're doing that, that would inform
[29:05] that operating budget request.
[29:08] And item four, if town meeting appropriates funding
[29:10] for a town wide facilities master plan, which I've expressed
[29:13] to the board, I would ask that be a priority
[29:18] for the board in the coming year, that the school committee
[29:21] and the select board would agree to include Steven Palmer in
[29:24] that, along with all the other town owned assets so
[29:26] that we can take a look at our assets holistically.
[29:30] So this is for your discussion and feedback
[29:34] and happy to make any edits the board sees fit.
[29:39] Okay. I'm gonna open it up for discussion.
[29:42] Does anyone, any of my colleagues want to, yeah,
[29:45] So manager, thank you to the
[29:47] town manager for putting this together.
[29:48] I think this reflects the discussion
[29:49] and I think this in my mind,
[29:51] will help us manage the property in
[29:55] uncertain circumstances.
[29:57] I guess we can say it that way on, on the fourth one
[30:00] with the, the facility master plan.
[30:02] I, I agree with this as well.
[30:03] I think I've heard talk
[30:06] of potentially demolishing the building.
[30:08] I mean, if it's gonna be in the facility master plan, we,
[30:12] I think that would be a decision that's held off
[30:14] until that occurs.
[30:16] That's my understanding. At least
[30:20] A request for funds to demolish the building would come
[30:23] under item two from the schools as a,
[30:27] through the capital process, I believe.
[30:29] And I'll discuss that further with our deputy manager,
[30:33] director of finance and the superintendent of schools.
[30:34] But I think the timing of when the school committee wants
[30:37] to submit that request, I think
[30:40] that would be a conversation with them.
[30:42] If we do move forward
[30:45] with the town wide facilities master plan, would that
[30:47] impact which year they'd be looking for funds to demolish?
[30:51] But again, that, that's for, for discussion.
[30:56] Yeah, I guess we have to discuss it more.
[30:57] 'cause if it, if it's gonna be demolished,
[30:58] then why have it in the cap in the master plan.
[31:04] But, but either way, if, if it was demolished, I mean
[31:07] that would be after this, the period specified in the MOA.
[31:11] Right? Right. So I
[31:16] think intrinsically sort
[31:18] of putting it off any other,
[31:24] To me it just seems too, I,
[31:26] it's gonna be hard to work with two and four.
[31:28] 'cause if the schools all of a sudden say we want the blank,
[31:31] but then we're putting in a facility study master,
[31:34] are we gonna say, okay, we're giving
[31:36] what their blank are we gonna make suggestion
[31:37] based on the facility study?
[31:39] So it's just something that I think we need to look at.
[31:41] Just like if you were to tear it down almost, you know,
[31:44] if they had made a decision, I'm not saying
[31:49] that it's terrible,
[31:51] I'm just saying it's something we need to think about.
[31:53] Agreed. Agreed. Okay. Kevin? Yeah,
[31:58] Katie, this is fine.
[31:59] It's great. I appreciate that, considering
[32:01] that circumstances have changed,
[32:03] considering this co codifies it. Well, so
[32:05] Thank you Kathy.
[32:09] Yeah, just, just Katie confirming here that
[32:12] what this agreement does is that we will handle the building
[32:16] until it is empty and then we will turn over an empty
[32:19] building to the school committee.
[32:22] Yes, that's correct. And then the second question is,
[32:25] in terms of the town wine facilities master plan,
[32:29] I'm assuming other school buildings are also
[32:31] in that plan, right?
[32:33] That would be my intention.
[32:34] And it's something I've discussed
[32:36] with the superintendent as well.
[32:38] So we haven't scoped anything.
[32:40] You know, this would be a budget request submission
[32:42] through the FY 28 budget process.
[32:44] And we could scope it, but I would recommend that all town
[32:47] and school facilities be included.
[32:49] Yeah. Okay. So then it's nothing
[32:51] special about this, right?
[32:52] If if every single facility
[32:54] and building, whether school, town,
[32:57] whatever is all included, then this wouldn't,
[33:00] that would make sense, I guess.
[33:01] But understand that that has not yet been scoped.
[33:07] All Right. Okay.
[33:12] All right. Yeah, I, I'm, I'm glad that
[33:15] this MOA will help us settle this issue of governance,
[33:18] you know, who, who's making decisions here
[33:21] for the short term so that it will allow us to explore
[33:28] what, what our plan should be.
[33:29] So there's no vote on this this evening, we're just,
[33:35] just considering and we'll take this up
[33:37] presumably at our next meeting.
[33:39] Thanks. Okay. Alright.
[33:42] So we'll move on to our next agenda item.
[33:45] This is the MWRA,
[33:48] the Massachusetts Water Resource Authority project updates.
[33:51] And we're gonna welcome a whole, whole team up.
[33:54] So come on up. I'm just gonna ask you, join us here.
[33:59] We want to make sure that when you're speaking,
[34:01] you're speaking into a microphone.
[34:04] Doesn't have to be like right up against it,
[34:06] but we wanna make sure that everyone on TV can hear you.
[34:10] And I'll ask you to start with some introductions.
[34:14] So I think we have two items on the agenda.
[34:16] The first one that we'll talk
[34:18] to is a Needham dewatering drain line.
[34:20] Great. And then we have another set
[34:21] of people, another set of, okay.
[34:22] Speak to the csl. Great. Alright.
[34:25] So my name is Paul Sbar,
[34:26] I'm the acting director for the Tunnel program.
[34:28] We appreciate the select board meeting with us today.
[34:30] We've met you a few times in the past on a tunnel program
[34:33] with some updates today.
[34:34] It's about one specific piece of construction
[34:37] for a drain line that we need to start
[34:38] before tunnel construction starts.
[34:40] But it's gonna help us get the tunnel construction so
[34:43] that when the tunnel contractor's on
[34:44] board, he's ready to go right away.
[34:45] So that, that's the first point.
[34:47] And I think we add some slides.
[34:50] Yes. But before you get started, just guys you
[34:52] Wanna introduce yourselves And I'm David Apt.
[34:54] I'm the design manager for the tunnel department. Great. I'm
[34:58] Ka Combine.
[34:59] Dean Maria, I'm the community relations coordinator.
[35:00] Excellent, thank you. Yeah. Okay,
[35:02] so we are starting our slides.
[35:05] Wonderful. Getting shared.
[35:14] Super Right. So next slide.
[35:19] So I'm just gonna give a quick update
[35:20] of the tunnel program just in context.
[35:22] That leads us up to the drain drain line
[35:24] that we're here really to talk about.
[35:26] And then Dave's gonna walk us
[35:27] through some specifics about the drain line
[35:29] so you'll be aware of what the work is.
[35:30] Great. And then we'll just cover some
[35:32] additional questions at the very end.
[35:33] So the next slide, we've shown this figure a number
[35:37] of times, but within that black circle is most
[35:39] of the metropolitan area that VM already serves water to.
[35:43] We need to provide redundancy for
[35:45] what you can see listed there, which is our city tunnel,
[35:47] city tunnel extension and Dorchester tunnel.
[35:49] That's what we call our Metropolitan water tunnel system.
[35:52] There are a couple incidences
[35:53] that happened in the past back in May of 2010
[35:56] and more recently in 2024 that brought us to the, the need
[36:01] for redundancy to the city tunnel system.
[36:03] We had a boil water order back in 2010
[36:05] because the, there's a water main break on the city
[36:08] tunnel or just upstream of that.
[36:10] That led us to the tunnel program.
[36:11] So I'm not gonna go into a lot
[36:12] of detail about the tunnel program,
[36:14] but it's about providing redundancy to
[36:16] that metropolitan tunnel system that we have.
[36:18] Can I ask why is break in quotes? Sure.
[36:22] Oh, we, we just, it, it was a water main break
[36:26] so it was a significant break for us.
[36:28] It wasn't a run of the mill type thing.
[36:30] There's no real sub reason
[36:31] to putting into quotes other than just
[36:34] to draw some attention to it. Okay,
[36:36] Thank you.
[36:40] I think we've talked about before some of the purposes
[36:42] for the tunnel program.
[36:44] And the main point here is
[36:45] that we wanna make sure we provide unin uninterrupted
[36:48] delivery of our high quality water to all the communities
[36:50] that we serve at any time
[36:52] of the year without any service interruptions.
[36:54] So that's why we need the tunnel program in order to be able
[36:57] to do that so that those similar incidences
[36:59] that have occurred in the past, if they happen again,
[37:01] we have ways to direct water around them to,
[37:04] to continue the service that we need to do.
[37:08] Next slide. So this is really a slide showing the
[37:10] overall tunnel program.
[37:11] And we've shown this one to the board before.
[37:15] We have two tunnel systems, one's in green, it's called
[37:17] that north tunnel that's gonna go from the Mass Pike
[37:19] and head up north five miles.
[37:21] The one for today that we're really concerned
[37:23] about is the south tunnel.
[37:24] And it's shown there are two colors, blue and a red stretch.
[37:28] And it's gonna also start at the Mass Pike in Route 1 28
[37:31] or on I 95 interchange area.
[37:34] That's where our halman aqueduct supplies the water into
[37:36] these tunnel systems and it'll deliver it all
[37:38] the way down to Mattapan.
[37:40] But to construct that tunnel,
[37:41] we we'll be using a tunnel boring machine
[37:44] and the tunnel boring machine will be starting at the I 95
[37:47] Highland Avenue interchange right here in Needham.
[37:50] And then it's gonna go construct in two different
[37:51] directions, one along that red path
[37:53] and one along the blue path.
[37:56] When that tunnel gets constructed, there's all the material
[37:59] that comes out, comes out path,
[38:01] those launch gas gets taken up
[38:02] and loaded onto trucks and taken away.
[38:04] But during construction, there'll be water groundwater
[38:06] that infiltrates into the tunnel
[38:08] and that water needs to also be brought back to the shaft
[38:10] so it can be pumped up to the surface treated
[38:12] to meet permit discharge requirements.
[38:14] And then, so the purpose of today is
[38:16] what we need is a pipeline to get from
[38:18] that interchange area over to the Charles River.
[38:21] So we call it a Needham dewatering drain line.
[38:23] It's what we call an early enabling work.
[38:25] So it's a piece of construction we need to do ahead
[38:28] of the large tunnel construction contract.
[38:30] So when the tunnel contractor comes on board,
[38:32] there's a place for that water to go to and get discharged.
[38:35] And so for the next slide, we're still on, just
[38:38] so we're aware that tunnel construction is still on schedule
[38:40] to start in 2028.
[38:42] And this is a piece of work that we need to do
[38:44] essentially next year so that we're ready for
[38:46] that 2028 timeframe.
[38:48] And now I'm gonna pass it off to Dave
[38:49] and he's gonna talk more specifically about
[38:51] what the need drain line will do.
[38:53] Yes. So the Needham dewatering drainage line consists
[38:57] of approximately 1,250 linear feet
[39:01] of 36 inch diameter pipeline.
[39:04] It starts at our Highland Avenue
[39:06] I 95 Northeast Cloverleaf shaft site
[39:09] and crosses underneath the I 95 Highway ramps
[39:13] and then falls along Brook Road, Arlington Road,
[39:16] makes a turn on Charles Street
[39:17] and then turns into the 1 63
[39:20] Highland Avenue private property to
[39:23] where our outfall location will be
[39:24] at the bank of the Charles River.
[39:26] When you say falls along, do you mean under Underground?
[39:29] Underground, thank you. Yes.
[39:32] The purpose is to discharge treated construction water
[39:36] during South Tunnel construction.
[39:38] It will also be the point where we discharge the water used
[39:41] for disinfection flushing
[39:43] and commissioning at the completion
[39:44] of South Tunnel Construction.
[39:46] And it's the low point for the South tunnel system.
[39:48] So in the future, if we need to take the tunnel offline
[39:51] for maintenance, inspection
[39:52] or repair, we would un water the tunnel at this location.
[39:56] So on the next few slides, I'm gonna walk you
[39:59] through the alignment, go over the construction methods
[40:02] and our work hours.
[40:04] Let's have question before go. Yeah.
[40:06] You say 1 63 Highland is a private Yes.
[40:09] So have you already had discussion,
[40:10] I'm guessing with them or?
[40:11] Yes, we're finalizing our permanent
[40:14] easement through their parking lot. Okay,
[40:15] Thank you.
[40:17] We, so we start at the Highland Avenue Northeast
[40:20] Cloverleaf, where we'll do about 150 feet
[40:24] of trenchless construction underneath the I 95 ramp.
[40:27] This is to not impact the traffic on the ramp.
[40:31] We're anticipating constructing this through pipe jacking.
[40:34] It's a figure on the bottom left hand of the slide.
[40:37] We are anticipating this work will be done during the day.
[40:42] Moving on to the next slide please.
[40:45] This is our alignment within the Needham right of way.
[40:49] So there's about 850 linear feet of cut
[40:52] and cover construction in Brook Road,
[40:55] Arlington and Charles Street.
[40:57] We will construct the work
[40:58] and stages to reduce our footprint in our impact on the
[41:02] surrounding area with discussions between DPW
[41:06] engineering and the police.
[41:08] And given it's a dense commercial area,
[41:11] we think night work would be the least impactful to buts.
[41:15] And there are Needham sewer mains running parallel
[41:19] to our proposed drainage line in Brook
[41:21] Road and Charles Street.
[41:23] So we will rehabilitate or replace those.
[41:28] Next slide please.
[41:30] So just, can I just ask Yes,
[41:31] this is gonna be in place throughout
[41:33] the entirety of the project.
[41:34] So this is all gonna be fixed to standard, like
[41:39] the regular Needham standard after the tunnel's in place?
[41:43] Yes, yes.
[41:44] And timeline,
[41:46] how long will the trenching take Brooke Road to?
[41:49] So our target is
[41:52] to start construction in the spring of 2027.
[41:55] Okay. And reaching substantial completion by spring of 2028
[41:59] that recognizes Needham Street moratorium in the winter.
[42:03] Okay. Okay. So we're targeting one construction
[42:06] season. Okay,
[42:07] Nice.
[42:08] We got a slide coming up on that. Yeah, sorry.
[42:10] Next slide please. And when we turn onto
[42:15] the private property, 1 63 Highland Avenue,
[42:18] we have about 250 feet of cut
[42:20] and cover construction, installing our drain line leading up
[42:23] to our outfall that will be on the bank of Charles River.
[42:26] We'll have a temporary coffer dam for construction
[42:30] and then the excavation will be
[42:32] conducted from the riverbank.
[42:33] The work on the private property will be
[42:35] during daytime hours.
[42:37] Next slide please. At the 1 63 Highland
[42:42] Avenue alignment, we cross
[42:44] below a Needham 12 inch sewer main.
[42:48] We will remove
[42:49] and replace the portion
[42:51] of the sewer Maine from the manhole at 1 63 Highland Avenue
[42:55] to the next manhole downstream at 60 Charles Street.
[42:59] It's about 300 linear feet of sewer.
[43:03] This work will take place within the town sewer easement
[43:06] and the work hours will be during the day.
[43:09] Next slide please. Upon completion
[43:13] of our work in the right of way,
[43:15] we will pave throughout the limits
[43:17] of disturbance, curb to curb.
[43:18] You can see it on the figure in the green shading.
[43:22] Next slide please. So, coordination
[43:26] with Needham, we've met with Needham, DPW
[43:30] and engineering to review our 60
[43:33] and 90% contract packages.
[43:36] And then in April we met with DPW Engineering police
[43:40] and fire to go over our construction zone safety plans
[43:44] and our proposed hours.
[43:46] And then for outreach, we held a public information session
[43:50] for Abutters to the alignment.
[43:52] Our designer distributed notices door to door.
[43:55] And then we had a session on July 16th.
[43:58] And then we are presenting at the Conservation Commission
[44:02] hearing for our notice of intent on Thursday.
[44:05] Next slide please. So here's our schedule.
[44:10] We are targeting going to bid this fall with the goal
[44:13] of onboarding a contractor in late fall, early winter,
[44:17] and starting construction in the 2027 construction season
[44:21] with the target of having the drain line ready for use
[44:25] for a South tunnel contractor when they come on board in the
[44:28] spring or summer of 2028.
[44:31] And with that next slide please,
[44:32] I'll hand it over to Carmine.
[44:34] Alright, so this is a contact page.
[44:37] We have a robust web webpage for the Tunnel,
[44:40] pro Tunnel program.
[44:42] Once you get on that tunnel tunnel program, you'll see
[44:46] that it has a table of contacts,
[44:48] introduction about the program, community updates,
[44:52] frequently asked questions, resources, contact us.
[44:54] This will navigate in there, answer many questions.
[44:57] As you can see the community update,
[44:59] that's where we find the Needham.
[45:00] I'll notice there's any work that's in particular to need.
[45:03] And then other communities have the same set up.
[45:06] It's pretty user friendly.
[45:08] Then we have ways to contact us
[45:10] through the tunnel info@mwa.com.
[45:12] Or you can contact myself at com, maria@mwa.com
[45:16] and tell us how wonderful job we're doing.
[45:19] Wow. Excellent.
[45:22] That's it. All right.
[45:25] What questions or thoughts
[45:29] or discussion points do we have? Kevin, you wanna start?
[45:32] Sure. Okay.
[45:37] You talked about this is the lowest site in the, in the,
[45:41] so you would de-water from the Needham site.
[45:44] And this would be used not just for construction,
[45:47] but if you ever had to, if
[45:48] We ever had to maintain the tunnel in the future.
[45:50] Okay. Yeah. It gives us a way to,
[45:51] to release some water if we need to.
[45:53] Thanks. So, you know the tunnel, like our existing tunnels,
[45:56] they've been in service since the 1950s
[45:57] and we haven't been able to take them outta line.
[45:59] Sometimes you wanna be able to take the water out
[46:01] so you can go inside and inspect them to make sure
[46:03] that they're not, there's no cracks
[46:05] or something that you need to fix.
[46:06] Okay. So it's for that purpose.
[46:08] So it's very, very rarely that we'd have to do it,
[46:10] but we're constructing the pipeline for construction.
[46:13] The idea would be to leave it in place so
[46:15] that when in the future, if we needed
[46:16] to, we could use it for that purpose.
[46:17] If we ever had to release some water
[46:18] to do some future inspection.
[46:20] Okay. It would be all be permitted, you know,
[46:22] every time we used it we'd have to get for the right kind
[46:24] of permits and we notify the town every,
[46:26] all sorts of notices like that. Alright.
[46:29] Can you explain a coffer dam to me?
[46:31] Sure. Yeah. It, so to construct in the river, you know,
[46:33] the water's flowing by,
[46:35] so coffer dam basically creates a little bit of a dam Okay.
[46:38] So that they can construct inside there.
[46:40] So it'd be constructing within the dry. Okay.
[46:42] So they can get that out outlet outfall pipe
[46:45] and then they can backfill that properly
[46:46] and restore the, the slope so
[46:48] that all can be done in the dry.
[46:49] Okay. And they'll pull the, the copper dam out
[46:52] and then the water will be restored.
[46:53] Okay. And then best guess, during construction,
[46:56] how much water do you imagine is going through this pipe?
[47:00] And we, and the Charles River is basically a plume going
[47:03] across the river of like thousands of cubic feet of
[47:07] Whatever.
[47:08] Yeah, no, I think, you know, we have the, the
[47:09] for during construction.
[47:10] Yeah. The flow rate that's coming construction.
[47:12] Dave, you, you've got the number, I think it's
[47:14] 5 million gallons a day. Yeah.
[47:16] So we need to permit this through DEP
[47:19] and EPA through their Nip DS permits.
[47:22] I've heard of that. So what we did
[47:24] for the Metro West Water supply tunnel was
[47:26] 5 million gallons per day.
[47:28] Okay. That's what we'll target perverting for our tunnel.
[47:32] That would be unmitigated.
[47:34] So the target would be
[47:36] to mitigate the water and flow into the tunnel.
[47:38] So you're discharging less than that rate.
[47:41] By mitigation mean, how much is that grouting
[47:43] and probing grouting inside the tunnel. Okay. How
[47:45] Much is that?
[47:46] I mean, what's that look like? 5 million gallons?
[47:52] It's a good Amount. What amount
[47:53] would you even compare that to?
[47:54] I don't know. I'm a tank At
[47:56] The aquarium inside the tunnel.
[47:57] You know the of 5 million gallons inside the tunnel? Yeah.
[48:00] You, you'd be able to walk through it.
[48:01] It'd be down at the surface.
[48:03] The contractor will pick that up into a pipe.
[48:04] The pipe's probably on the order of six
[48:07] to 12 inch diameter, something like that. Okay.
[48:10] Alright. And then this pipe is a
[48:12] storm drain, essentially.
[48:13] So it's flowing by gravity. So the pipe itself here is 36
[48:16] inch, but it's could be flowing by gravity,
[48:17] like it's open channel flow. Okay.
[48:19] And then finally, I'm sorry, the section of sewer
[48:24] to be replaced along Charles Street.
[48:27] Thank you. But why
[48:31] So Oh, go Ahead.
[48:32] Along the Charles River Bank, so that's vitrified Clay pipe.
[48:36] Okay. So that was constructed well over 50 years ago
[48:41] and it's a very brittle pipe.
[48:44] So just by crossing underneath it,
[48:46] we are going to impact that
[48:48] Pipe.
[48:49] Okay, sure. On that note, can I just follow up?
[48:52] You said, I think you said 300 feet.
[48:54] 300 feet. That sounds like a, a lot at once.
[48:58] How's that gonna impact the sewer service for the area?
[49:02] So we would work, well we've been working with DPW,
[49:05] we would have to bypass the sewer from manhole to manhole,
[49:08] but that 300 feet is dictated
[49:10] by the nearest manhole upstream, which is at 1 63 Highland.
[49:14] And the next one downstream, which is at 60 Charles Street.
[49:17] Okay. So if we tried to do a connection closer than
[49:21] that 300 feet, we might not be able to get a good connection
[49:24] to that brittle clay pipe.
[49:25] Sure. I guess I'm just wondering
[49:26] what the interruption will be for those commercial
[49:29] and residential customers downstream from the,
[49:31] There, there won't be any interruption during the bypass.
[49:33] They'll pump out of the upstream manhole discharge
[49:35] in the downstream manhole.
[49:36] Okay. So they won't notice any,
[49:38] won't notice any interruption flow. Yep.
[49:40] Excellent. Did you have more?
[49:44] I thought that's enough. Alright, interrupt.
[49:45] Okay. Okay, Josh,
[49:48] Just one question.
[49:49] It sounded like, so this water pipe is gonna be very close
[49:52] to the, the Needham sewer pipe.
[49:54] And is that the reason the 300 feet that,
[49:58] that the Needham sewer pipe will have to be replaced?
[50:02] So, well we're, we're crossing the, the need
[50:04] that 300 feet we're crossing.
[50:06] So that's the, the brittle pipe
[50:08] that Dave's talking about. That's
[50:10] Along the bank.
[50:11] That's along the bank. Yeah. And then
[50:11] one, the other ones are close.
[50:12] Within the trench, you have to create a trench
[50:14] to create the 36 inch pipe.
[50:16] There's other sewers that are close by.
[50:18] So we're expecting that we might have
[50:20] to impact those when we're installing trench
[50:22] box to, to get through that. So
[50:23] If the town ever has to maintain our own sewer pipe,
[50:26] Would it impact this MWRA pipe?
[50:30] No. No. That's why we're providing the space
[50:32] and then restoring it so that the,
[50:33] the pipes will have sufficient separation distances
[50:36] so that they can be maintained.
[50:37] Thank you.
[50:38] Great, bill? I'm good. Thanks.
[50:39] Very interesting and detailed. Thank you.
[50:42] All right. Kathy, anything? No questions.
[50:48] Okay. I just have one question. It's about noise.
[50:54] I can see that you've thought through
[50:56] the daytime versus nighttime work,
[51:01] but this is, this is a reasonably small area both
[51:05] with commercial customers and,
[51:06] and residential neighborhoods just outside the perimeter.
[51:10] So I guess I'm just wondering,
[51:14] I'm not really clear on the scale of the disruption
[51:18] that these machines will cause.
[51:20] I just, I guess I just wanna check in on how
[51:24] Yeah. So
[51:24] If, if it's gonna be a destruction for those folks.
[51:27] It, I don't, no, it won't be.
[51:29] It's typical pipeline construction in the streets.
[51:31] So you'll see it many times. You know, they'll have a,
[51:33] a trench that they have to excavate.
[51:35] Sure. The pipe is 36 inch diameter, so that's three feet.
[51:38] But it will be to what, 10 to 15 feet? 10 to 15 feet deep.
[51:42] And when they bury the pipe and then they backfill the pipe
[51:44] and they, they move it along.
[51:45] So they'll be excavating a section
[51:47] and moving their way along the 1200 feet.
[51:49] Okay. Most of the areas, industrial, commercial kind
[51:52] of area, the specific streets we're going through,
[51:55] there's no residential homes
[51:57] or anything in that along that route.
[51:59] And that's when we talked to this, the town
[52:01] and the, the police and the feeling of doing
[52:04] that work at night, probably better
[52:05] because then the industry, the commercials are open
[52:08] during the day, so it won't impact them during the daytime.
[52:10] We'll be there at nighttime when they're not working. Okay.
[52:13] Alright. Great. Well appreciated.
[52:18] Sounds like you've answered all
[52:20] of our questions, which is great.
[52:22] I'm sure you will get more from the public.
[52:27] So, so with that maybe we'll swap teams or add teams.
[52:31] Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[52:44] All right. Welcome.
[52:48] Thank You. Just two. Okay. Just two. All right.
[52:51] So we'll start with introductions.
[52:53] I'm Steve Este, I'm interim executive director
[52:56] at the MWRA.
[52:58] Colleen Zi, director of Environmental
[52:59] and Regulatory Affairs for MWA. Thank
[53:01] You for, for being here.
[53:02] We're here this evening. There's been a lot
[53:04] of publicity about our combined sewer overflow plan update.
[53:07] Yes. You've probably heard from
[53:10] various folks over the many months we thought it's, we're,
[53:13] we're offering an opportunity to chat
[53:16] with communities about the plan,
[53:18] provide some clear information from our perspective about
[53:22] what the plan does and doesn't do.
[53:24] We are in the middle of a comment period.
[53:27] Colleen, I'll talk a little
[53:28] bit more about that in the middle.
[53:30] And we're looking for folks to, you know, provide sort
[53:33] of fact-based comment from your perspective to the,
[53:37] to the DEP and EPA so
[53:39] that they make a good decision coming out.
[53:41] It's a very expensive plan. Community share is pretty large.
[53:46] And the delta between the plan that's on the table
[53:49] and what some are recommending is very substantial
[53:54] and substantial increment for the, each of the towns
[53:58] that are paying both sur bills.
[54:00] So we wanted to be careful to make sure that folks are aware
[54:05] of this while there's an opportunity to comment so
[54:09] that we don't have a situation the
[54:11] after DEP has locked us down
[54:15] and then folks realize the expense and the disruption.
[54:19] And there are, that's, that's sort
[54:21] of the wrong way to do public policy.
[54:23] Excellent. Best to have him pretty early.
[54:24] Yeah, we appreciate that. And so before you begin,
[54:28] 'cause I know you have slides, can you just remind us of
[54:31] how long the comment period lasts
[54:33] and then what's the decision making timeline?
[54:35] Absolutely. Because I,
[54:37] I think people will be wondering about that at the outset
[54:39] and I want them to be able to pay attention
[54:40] Here. No, that's process.
[54:41] I don't first to our notes. Okay, great.
[54:44] So actually we are in the middle of the common period.
[54:46] So we submitted in April 30th
[54:48] and comments were due September 30th.
[54:51] We actually just got an extension from DEP in response
[54:53] to some requests from the watershed associations.
[54:56] So October 30th, October is the deadline for comments.
[55:01] And we are, and I'll share the website for the program.
[55:05] There are multiple ways to comment.
[55:08] We can accept, we have a portal that's online.
[55:11] We have email, regular snail mail to the MWA address
[55:16] as well as two public hearings
[55:18] that will be held in September where people could come
[55:21] and get verbal public comment as well.
[55:23] Okay, great. And then, so the deadline
[55:28] for comments is, is October 30th,
[55:30] but then there's some period when, so
[55:32] We will That's right. Decision
[55:33] Making occurs.
[55:34] So we will have a final plan
[55:35] that will be due in spring of 2027.
[55:38] So we'll be accepting comments from the public.
[55:40] We'll also get comments from DEP
[55:42] and EPA, which will inform the final plan.
[55:46] Okay. That gets submitted.
[55:48] And then when that gets submitted to EP
[55:49] and DEP in the spring, it will simultaneously be going
[55:53] through the MEPA process.
[55:54] So the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act,
[55:56] which will offer another opportunity for public comment.
[55:59] Okay. Great. Alright, thank you. Of course.
[56:03] And so actually before we get into the formal
[56:05] presentation, but certainly please bring the slides up if
[56:07] you can, just taking,
[56:10] I guess a step back in making sure people are on the same
[56:13] page with what A CSO is for those
[56:15] that might not be familiar either here or in the public.
[56:20] Many older cities in the US have a single pipe
[56:24] that takes both stormwater, so runoff from streets and veils
[56:28] and all that, as well as the sanitary flows into one pipe,
[56:32] it was put in place to offer kind of a relief mechanism so
[56:36] that there were no backups into homes businesses.
[56:39] The flip side of that is in larger storm events,
[56:44] you can have that discharge into the receiving water body,
[56:47] which will be, and I do wanna stress
[56:49] that this is a combination of storm water
[56:51] and sanitary flows.
[56:52] It is not just straight raw sewage going
[56:55] into the receiving water body.
[56:56] Just to make sure, so as I talk
[56:58] through this presentation tonight about the combined sewer
[57:01] overflows, use the acronym CSO, just keep in mind
[57:04] that is a combination of both stormwater
[57:07] as well as sanitary flows.
[57:10] Like many decisions in infrastructure
[57:12] and land use planning made decades ago, we are living
[57:15] with the consequences of that
[57:17] and looking to improve those situations.
[57:21] So the plan that we lay out tonight that's currently in
[57:25] for public comment does just that it improves water quality,
[57:30] reduces the discharges of CSOs.
[57:33] So if we can go to the next slide please.
[57:38] So just starting with a review of what's been accomplished
[57:42] for CSO Control to date and where we are today.
[57:46] MWA and is for CSO member communities.
[57:48] So, Boston, Chelsea, Cambridge,
[57:49] and Somerville have been working
[57:51] to reduce CSOs in the region for decades.
[57:56] Under the Boston Harbor Project, which most
[57:57] of you're probably familiar with, the long,
[57:59] the first long-term control plan was implemented,
[58:01] 35 separate projects,
[58:04] CSO control projects highlighted in the figure
[58:06] to the right little tough to see at this scale.
[58:09] These are all completed by 2015,
[58:12] but the work really hasn't stopped.
[58:15] MWA along with the CSO communities continue
[58:18] to implement CSO reduction projects.
[58:21] Overall investment to date on CSO control is over one
[58:24] and a half billion dollars.
[58:27] Next slide please. So over the past
[58:32] 35 plus years, CSOs have been reduced by approximately 88%
[58:37] from the late eighties.
[58:39] And 94% of what is still discharged
[58:42] as CSO is actually treated prior to discharge.
[58:45] It gets disinfection and then dechlorination
[58:47] before it gets discharged to a water body.
[58:49] So there is a bacteria removal for that
[58:53] as shown on the bar chart chart on the right, the volume
[58:57] of CSOs has dramatically decreased,
[59:00] resulting in significant improvements
[59:01] to water quality in the metro Boston area.
[59:05] Next slide please. So the next piece
[59:09] of the kinda CO story,
[59:11] we've been operating under approved variances since 2004,
[59:15] the A Life Brook, mystic River,
[59:17] and Charles River Water, water bodies.
[59:20] These variances are issued by DEP and EPA
[59:23] and they allow CSO discharges to continue while the work
[59:27] to address those and reduce the volumes also continues.
[59:31] The most recent variance requires an updated CSO control
[59:34] plan, which is what we're presenting tonight.
[59:38] Those that requirement was alternatives
[59:41] to evaluate alternatives up to including full elimination
[59:44] of CSO discharges to the three water bodies here.
[59:48] Next slide please. So, as I mentioned, a lot
[59:52] of work has been done.
[59:55] A significant number of O falls have been closed.
[59:57] Those are indicated by the orange dot with the X through it.
[1:00:02] Those are CSOs that have been closed.
[1:00:05] The updated CSSO control plan is really focused on the
[1:00:08] yellow dots on this plan, which are the L falls
[1:00:10] that can continue to discharge to the free water bodies.
[1:00:14] So again, a lot of progress has been made to date,
[1:00:17] but still some work to be done.
[1:00:20] So MWA is partnered with the city
[1:00:22] of Somerville and the city of Cambridge.
[1:00:24] On this initiative, we submitted a joint plan
[1:00:27] to DEP and EPA.
[1:00:28] So that was coming from the three partners in one plan.
[1:00:33] Next slide please. So looking at the draft plan, the plan
[1:00:37] as it currently stands in its draft form,
[1:00:39] it does account for climate change.
[1:00:42] More specifically, the impact
[1:00:43] of future increases in precipitation.
[1:00:46] We know we're gonna get higher annual rainfall
[1:00:48] totals, more intense storms.
[1:00:50] This plan is the first in the nation that we know of to
[1:00:54] estimate the future rainfall events.
[1:00:57] Most CSOs plans look
[1:01:00] to the past when they're estimating their rainfall events.
[1:01:02] We are looking into the future to mitigate those.
[1:01:06] This plan eliminates CSOs in the 2050 typical year,
[1:01:10] which I will note does include a sizable over three inch
[1:01:14] storm and a 24 hour event.
[1:01:15] So it does have some larger storms in it,
[1:01:17] and it does reduce the volumes in the larger
[1:01:20] storm events over that.
[1:01:22] It also incorporates green stormwater infrastructure or GSI.
[1:01:27] Next slide please. So the partners evaluated
[1:01:32] 39 alternatives across the three water bodies across
[1:01:35] different levels of control.
[1:01:38] And that included a combination of tools
[1:01:40] at the different outfalls.
[1:01:42] And I'll note that the evaluation really focused on
[1:01:45] balancing the important
[1:01:47] and sometimes competing considerations like the ones
[1:01:51] listed on the slide.
[1:01:53] I'll note though that the resulting water quality benefits
[1:01:55] from the work and the protection of existing open
[1:01:59] and recreational space,
[1:02:00] which we already know is really limited in these areas, were
[1:02:04] key considerations through the evaluation.
[1:02:08] So next slide please.
[1:02:11] So looking at the Alewife brook,
[1:02:13] and you can go to the next Thank you.
[1:02:15] So this is the recommended alternative in the Alewife brook.
[1:02:20] There's a total of six outfalls owned by Cambridge,
[1:02:22] Somerville, and MWA that currently discharge to the alewife.
[1:02:27] The draft plan that was submitted includes a combination
[1:02:30] of CSO control tools at those different outfalls,
[1:02:33] including storage tanks, storage conduits,
[1:02:35] and sewer separation.
[1:02:37] I will note, as you look at the durations on these plans,
[1:02:40] these are really kind of high level planning estimates of
[1:02:43] what it would take to construct these different projects.
[1:02:46] They're not intended to be timelines from today.
[1:02:49] There's still a bit of work to do
[1:02:51] before we get to that point, but I will note,
[1:02:54] because these plans do include a series of smaller projects,
[1:02:57] there's the opportunity
[1:02:58] that we can get some interim benefits.
[1:03:01] So as individual projects come online, we're seeing some of
[1:03:04] that reduction in the CSOs while other projects are
[1:03:07] still in the works.
[1:03:10] Next slide please. So looking at the Mr. River. Thank you.
[1:03:15] So there's actually only one outfall
[1:03:17] to the upper Mystic River and it's jointly controlled by NRE
[1:03:20] and the city of Somerville.
[1:03:22] The draft plan here includes a combination
[1:03:25] of sewer separation and a really large storage tank
[1:03:28] that would be located in the parking lot of the assembly row
[1:03:32] shopping center for those that are
[1:03:33] familiar with that location.
[1:03:36] Next slide please. And you can actually skip
[1:03:39] to the alternative.
[1:03:41] And so this is lastly looking at the Charles River.
[1:03:44] Again, this is a combination of multiple outfalls.
[1:03:47] The CSO controls here are a combination of sewer separation
[1:03:50] and storage tanks, both MWA
[1:03:53] and the city of Cambridge control out falls
[1:03:56] discharging to the Charles River.
[1:03:59] It Ms. Probably noting that all
[1:04:00] of those CSO outlaw falls are downstream
[1:04:04] of the Watertown Dam.
[1:04:05] Yeah, correct. For a sense of geography.
[1:04:08] Thank you. That's right. That's the next slide.
[1:04:13] So this is just a high level summary
[1:04:15] of the three alternatives that we just looked at.
[1:04:18] Total cost estimated to be about $1.3 billion.
[1:04:24] And I will note
[1:04:25] before we go to the next slide, as noted earlier,
[1:04:28] with the implementation of these projects
[1:04:30] as currently proposed in the draft plan, we do see
[1:04:33] that elimination of the CSOs in the 2050 typical year,
[1:04:37] the reduction in the larger events,
[1:04:40] and as compared to the projects
[1:04:42] or looking at kind of the higher levels of control,
[1:04:44] those five year, 25 year storm events,
[1:04:48] this plan offers some additional
[1:04:51] benefits in the earlier reductions in the CSOs, right,
[1:04:54] bringing those smaller projects online.
[1:04:56] So we're starting to see those kind of interim benefits,
[1:04:59] less disruptive construction impacts, including
[1:05:02] construction noise, less truck traffic as compared to some
[1:05:05] of the higher alternatives.
[1:05:07] And then the reduced loss of the open space.
[1:05:09] I mentioned this earlier, including Parkland, both
[1:05:12] during construction, but also
[1:05:14] for the new permanent infrastructure that's going going in,
[1:05:17] which is a high priority in trying
[1:05:18] to preserve some of that open space.
[1:05:23] You know? Next slide please.
[1:05:26] So looking at the costs,
[1:05:28] this slide focuses on just the MWA share of that
[1:05:32] $1.3 billion.
[1:05:33] So the MWA share is right now estimated at $763 million.
[1:05:38] The remainder would be allocated to the city
[1:05:41] of Cambridge and the city of Somerville.
[1:05:44] Note that the costs that we've been talking about going
[1:05:46] through the presentation are in today's dollars,
[1:05:49] not in future, but when we escalate those costs
[1:05:52] by the two point half percent annually,
[1:05:54] which is our standard for the next 15 years
[1:05:57] or so, that $763 million today
[1:06:01] becomes just over a billion dollars in future spending.
[1:06:07] And I'll note, I'm de borrows for almost all
[1:06:10] of our construction projects,
[1:06:11] and we would do the same for the work associated with this.
[1:06:15] So we're issuing long-term debt
[1:06:16] for these construction projects.
[1:06:18] The total rate payer costs, then
[1:06:21] that 7 63 turned into 1 billion goes into $2 billion.
[1:06:25] When you incorporate the interest on the long-term debt,
[1:06:29] that 2 billion is what's shown
[1:06:31] as the green line on this chart.
[1:06:33] So that's the draft plan as currently submitted.
[1:06:36] As you move up in levels of control, the cost
[1:06:38] of horse increase that top level at the 5.6 billion is
[1:06:42] that 25 year storm event.
[1:06:44] It's the largest event that we looked at.
[1:06:46] So using the same methodology
[1:06:48] that 2 billion is 5.6 billion in the larger storms,
[1:06:53] these costs will be paid for by the MWA sewer communities,
[1:06:56] including Needham, right?
[1:06:58] And including Chelsea Quincy, all of the 43
[1:07:02] MDA sewer communities would partake in these costs.
[1:07:06] And we recognize that these sewer rate increases will be in
[1:07:11] addition to other financial pressures
[1:07:12] that the communities I'm sure including Needham,
[1:07:16] are already facing the households that pay these bills.
[1:07:19] So the MWA advisory board
[1:07:21] who represents our member communities,
[1:07:24] they created a dashboard that allows individual communities
[1:07:27] to see what the impacts, what those increased costs are
[1:07:30] for each of the levels of control that we looked at.
[1:07:32] The three plans looking out to 2072, which is the tail end
[1:07:37] of the projected debt service using that dashboard.
[1:07:42] I'll give you guys kind of the bottom line of it tonight,
[1:07:44] or the punchline using the head dashboard.
[1:07:47] NEEDHAM'S cost for the draft plan
[1:07:49] that is currently under review is about $28 million over
[1:07:54] between FY 29 and 2072.
[1:07:58] So that's for just the plan that's currently on the table
[1:08:01] to go to the highest level of control, which is
[1:08:03] that 25 year storm event
[1:08:05] that is about $85 million to need for Needham.
[1:08:08] Yeah. So adults are about $57 million from that
[1:08:13] zero CSOs in the typical year up to that,
[1:08:15] that 25 year storm event.
[1:08:20] And do you know, sorry, may I ask a couple questions?
[1:08:22] Do you know, you know, in the peak year
[1:08:25] or the average year, what the impact would be
[1:08:29] to a typical rate payer? So
[1:08:32] That one's a little bit harder
[1:08:34] and I don't know, Steve, if you,
[1:08:35] I think there's a couple different
[1:08:36] ways of thinking about that.
[1:08:38] Each community needs to take their piece.
[1:08:41] And so the advisory board's chart shows
[1:08:44] how much the incremental cost would be to need them,
[1:08:47] for example, in each year.
[1:08:49] Each community needs to take that
[1:08:50] and assume how that's going to move from their
[1:08:55] rate structure to their rate payers,
[1:08:57] including any other costs.
[1:08:59] It's a fairly substantial sum of money.
[1:09:01] The hard thing on all these things is you can always find a
[1:09:04] way to make it a tiny little number,
[1:09:06] but it's one way or the other.
[1:09:08] It's a large number.
[1:09:10] It's a couple billion dollars across the region on top
[1:09:13] of all of the other projects we're working on, one
[1:09:17] of the things that we've heard some of the advocates say is,
[1:09:21] well, deer Island's being paid off.
[1:09:23] So of course you have a lot of money.
[1:09:25] Well, that would be true if in fact
[1:09:29] what you built in the late 1990s could go forever
[1:09:33] without being maintained.
[1:09:35] We're in the midst right now of beginning to make sort
[1:09:38] of major renovation projects on Deer Island.
[1:09:40] We have a $300 million project looking at the clarifiers
[1:09:45] that the treatment vessels, there's a series of projects
[1:09:48] that are between two and $300 million on Deer Island
[1:09:51] over the next few years.
[1:09:53] So basically the bills
[1:09:56] that we paid back to build the Boston Harbor project
[1:10:00] have been mostly paid off,
[1:10:02] but we're spending actually a pretty much the same amount
[1:10:05] of money over the next decade or so.
[1:10:07] Keeping that facility running, keeping Boston Harbor clean.
[1:10:11] The same thing is true for facilities upstream of that
[1:10:14] and in at your level, at each individual community,
[1:10:17] there's continued investments in the wastewater pipes
[1:10:20] to keep them from degrading
[1:10:22] and bringing more clean water into those pipes, sending it
[1:10:26] to Dry Island and raising your local
[1:10:28] share of the total cost.
[1:10:29] So that's a lot of money on the table. Yeah.
[1:10:32] Can I ask another question? I, I guess I see this
[1:10:34] as a public benefit project.
[1:10:36] Like it, it doesn't benefit only the communities within
[1:10:39] the MWRA system.
[1:10:40] So, I mean, I almost see Needham as a much of a beneficiary
[1:10:44] as Worcester, but
[1:10:46] because they're not part of the MWR system,
[1:10:48] they're not being, they don't bear any
[1:10:51] of the costs, correct?
[1:10:53] Yeah, I mean we would, it would be wonderful in a,
[1:10:57] in a world in which the Commonwealth
[1:10:59] or the US government felt
[1:11:01] that this was a high enough priority for them
[1:11:03] to not just require it,
[1:11:06] but to, the reason we're doing the project is it's required
[1:11:09] by the state and federal government,
[1:11:11] but it was a high enough priority for them
[1:11:13] to not just require that the 43 communities do it,
[1:11:16] but contribute to the cost.
[1:11:18] Most of Deer Island was paid for by the cities
[1:11:21] and towns that fund the MWRA sewer district.
[1:11:25] The same thing is, is likely to be true here.
[1:11:29] I would say if you could send us a letter on this plan,
[1:11:32] you might wanna also wanna send a letter to your, your
[1:11:36] Senators and representatives and suggest that they do that.
[1:11:41] The state provides us a token payment each year,
[1:11:45] a few hundred thousand dollars towards
[1:11:48] our almost a billion dollar water and sewer budget.
[1:11:53] You've got a couple of more comprehensive
[1:11:57] plans here on the table.
[1:11:59] Can you help us understand the qualitative difference
[1:12:02] between the plan that costs
[1:12:04] well will cost Needham $28 million versus the plan
[1:12:09] that will cost Needham $85 million?
[1:12:12] Like what, what is, what are we getting
[1:12:14] for those, don't you?
[1:12:16] The technical one? Yes. Yeah. So those larger,
[1:12:20] Because we do have, we do, we have had folks come in
[1:12:23] to advocate for the larger plans.
[1:12:24] So I wanna understand like what are we giving up? Yeah.
[1:12:27] Or what are, what are we purchasing if we
[1:12:29] Yep, no, that's absolutely right.
[1:12:31] So the larger, so that $85 million plan is
[1:12:34] for the upper level, that's the 25 year
[1:12:36] level of control, right?
[1:12:37] So in a 25 year event, you would have no CSO discharges
[1:12:41] to any of the three water bodies to do that.
[1:12:44] We are looking at a large deep tunnel
[1:12:48] that would collect the flows and kind of carry it.
[1:12:51] So that's where some of that large cost comes from, right?
[1:12:53] You're building extremely large infrastructure to do this.
[1:12:57] But I will say even with that, I know
[1:13:00] 'cause one of the talking points, which is the, you know,
[1:13:02] fishable swimmable days in the Charles for example,
[1:13:06] that doesn't change as you go up in the levels of control
[1:13:09] because until
[1:13:12] or may have heard sewer separation as one of the kind
[1:13:15] of gold standards as well is until the stormwater
[1:13:19] piece is really taken care of
[1:13:21] and treated, you aren't gonna see any additional days
[1:13:25] of swimming in the Charles
[1:13:26] because every storm event, storm water, which is,
[1:13:29] has pollutants in it, right?
[1:13:30] It's not clean that goes in every storm event.
[1:13:33] Whereas a CSO is discharged periodically
[1:13:36] depending on how large a storm was.
[1:13:37] So I think from a, taking the step back from a,
[1:13:40] what you get from it,
[1:13:43] you may see less CSO discharges in the ongoing events,
[1:13:47] but you aren't gonna see that increase to water quality
[1:13:49] to make that so bowl fishable the entire year
[1:13:51] until you rarely start treating the storm water
[1:13:55] balloons that go into it.
[1:13:57] So that was the kind of technical part.
[1:13:58] Yeah. One of the, one
[1:14:00] of the difficulties in being the folks who have
[1:14:02] to engineer the projects is you're required
[1:14:04] to actually look in great detail at all of the issues
[1:14:09] and think of it comprehensively.
[1:14:11] So as I think about it, if we,
[1:14:15] if over the next 30 years the communities in the,
[1:14:18] the 35 communities that feed into state
[1:14:21] of Charles River all spent many tens of billions of dollars
[1:14:25] to com completely treat the thousands of stormwater outfalls
[1:14:30] that go into the Charles at
[1:14:33] that point then not having the CSO volume in a larger
[1:14:36] storm would yield benefit.
[1:14:38] But until all of those storm water
[1:14:41] dirty storm water discharges into the river are res are
[1:14:44] cleaned up, you're still on every single storm going
[1:14:49] to have pollution in the river,
[1:14:50] which results in it not being meeting, meeting the fishing,
[1:14:53] the swimming bowl standards.
[1:14:55] Now River does meet swimmable standards on quite a few days
[1:14:58] in the year, but it doesn't meet it
[1:15:00] for any significant rainfall, primarily in most cases
[1:15:03] because of flows that are coming down upstream
[1:15:07] of the Watertown Dam, which are, it's dirtier upstream,
[1:15:11] can causing a lower portion of the river
[1:15:13] to be not meet those standards.
[1:15:16] The river doesn't meet standards after rainfall.
[1:15:20] If this, even on days when the CSOs are all, when
[1:15:23] combined source all heading to Deer Island
[1:15:25] and none of it's making to the river,
[1:15:27] the river's not swimable.
[1:15:29] We really, this is a, I think that it's a, it's a long,
[1:15:33] long, long term issue.
[1:15:35] Nothing we're doing in this plan prohibits us
[1:15:38] or from being able to come back
[1:15:41] at a point when the rivers cleaner
[1:15:43] because of all the storm water and deal with this.
[1:15:46] But it seems like a reasonable effort to reduce the impact
[1:15:50] that the CSOs have on the river
[1:15:52] even without necessarily making it swimmable.
[1:15:57] One of my things I've said at all the meetings is
[1:16:00] folks are saying it's gonna be swimmable.
[1:16:03] They're gonna be in an awkward spot
[1:16:07] when we build whatever project we build.
[1:16:09] And it's not ought
[1:16:11] to be something more than a bumper sticker
[1:16:13] as you're doing these kind of investments.
[1:16:15] Okay. Bill, any questions? No, I'm good. Thank you.
[1:16:21] All right, Kathy. Yes,
[1:16:25] I thank you.
[1:16:26] This has been really helpful and interesting.
[1:16:29] I'm just looking at the list
[1:16:30] of all the different communities
[1:16:31] and I'm wondering how is the cost allocated
[1:16:34] amongst those 35 communities?
[1:16:37] So the, the MWRA sewer charges are based
[1:16:42] primarily on flow to a, a complicated format
[1:16:46] that includes monthly flow averaged over three years,
[1:16:51] peak month flow averaged over three years.
[1:16:55] Some factors for population in each community
[1:16:59] and all the communities.
[1:17:01] We sum all the costs
[1:17:02] and we divide it up by your share of flow, your share
[1:17:05] of population in essence.
[1:17:07] So it's essentially a flow based
[1:17:09] or impact based charge.
[1:17:13] Each community pays their share based on those numbers.
[1:17:18] So in that case, does Needham benefit from having some
[1:17:21] of our water come from our town wealth?
[1:17:25] No. Is wastewater flow waste water,
[1:17:28] waste water flow, of course, yeah.
[1:17:29] Your water bill is lower,
[1:17:31] your water charge from us is lower 'cause you buy less water.
[1:17:34] Yeah, but the sewer flow is
[1:17:35] wastewater is based on wastewater flow.
[1:17:36] We do meter that flow,
[1:17:37] of course that's what leaves the town.
[1:17:39] Okay. We would be happy to over the next couple months
[1:17:43] provide an input your, your staff needs
[1:17:47] as they're thinking about trafficking this
[1:17:49] and getting a letter to you
[1:17:50] to send off any additional information we can provide.
[1:17:53] We'd be happy to do Thank you
[1:17:55] for the opportunity to be here. Certainly.
[1:17:57] And I'll just note there are two more slides in there.
[1:17:59] I don't think they need to be pulled
[1:18:00] up, but you have 'em in your packet.
[1:18:01] It just shows the next steps,
[1:18:03] which we've already touched on and then the project.
[1:18:06] So yeah, so the next slide steps,
[1:18:08] the comment period now is extended to end of October.
[1:18:12] So this is a little bit outdated
[1:18:13] that was fresh off the presses this afternoon.
[1:18:16] And then project implementation going between the, you know,
[1:18:20] say 2027 to the 2050s.
[1:18:21] But noting during that timeframe some
[1:18:23] of the smaller projects will be coming online.
[1:18:26] And then the next slide if you could, is just the,
[1:18:30] has the link to the joint CSO planning site that we share
[1:18:34] with between the three partners
[1:18:37] and folks that are interested in this program can look,
[1:18:39] the draft plan is there, past public meetings are all
[1:18:42] recorded, the slideshows are there.
[1:18:44] So if anybody needs more information
[1:18:45] and certainly we're always happy to answer questions
[1:18:47] And that's where the the, for any cities who wants to
[1:18:50] comment the portal
[1:18:52] to the provide comments electronically is on that site.
[1:18:55] All the ways to comment are there. So.
[1:18:57] Okay. Well we, we appreciate your time.
[1:19:00] This is a very significant project
[1:19:02] Come In here.
[1:19:03] So thank you much
[1:19:09] Madam, if you apologize for having a little
[1:19:12] trouble finding out why this won't go away.
[1:19:14] Okay.
[1:19:20] I give everyone a little extra time to jot it down.
[1:19:25] Ma'am, check. Can I move the consent agenda?
[1:19:28] Please do. Yes. All right. I move the consent agenda
[1:19:31] Second.
[1:19:32] Alright, so we'll
[1:19:37] vote on the consent.
[1:19:38] Kathy, we'll go to you. Yes. Bill? Yes.
[1:19:43] Josh? Yes. Kevin? Yes. And I vote yes as well. Thank you.
[1:19:49] Okay, the next item on our agenda tonight is the local
[1:19:52] initiative program at 1 93 gar,
[1:19:56] the Garden Street Proposal Gardener's
[1:19:59] Nest Condominium project.
[1:20:01] Hello. We're gonna welcome Mrs.
[1:20:06] Toulie. Yes,
[1:20:09] George Junta And is Mary au as well.
[1:20:12] Okay, come on up.
[1:20:17] So it's good to see you all back. Thank you. A joint summer.
[1:20:22] Thank you. Thank for your time today.
[1:20:25] So I will turn it over to you guys to present on
[1:20:30] the project as it stands currently. Alright,
[1:20:32] Great.
[1:20:33] Thank you very much. George Center junior
[1:20:35] attorney representing Mr.
[1:20:38] Oli and his entity that own owns the property is proposing
[1:20:42] this 40 B project.
[1:20:44] And as the board knows,
[1:20:45] 'cause we've been here a couple of times before,
[1:20:47] this is an ongoing process
[1:20:49] and one of the aspects of a lip,
[1:20:51] a local initiative project is
[1:20:54] that it is a cooperative project.
[1:20:56] It essentially is a form almost of a partnership
[1:20:59] between the town and the developer.
[1:21:00] So here we are at the next,
[1:21:03] the next check-in if you will on this project.
[1:21:06] So we last met and discussed this back in April.
[1:21:09] So it's been a little bit of time
[1:21:11] since we last talked about this.
[1:21:13] Since then there's been a couple of things
[1:21:15] that have taken place that directly address some
[1:21:17] of the comments and concerns that have been raised.
[1:21:20] First off, probably most important is the survey has been
[1:21:24] completed, the land survey of the property,
[1:21:26] which we hadn't had before.
[1:21:28] We only had sort of preliminary plans and so on.
[1:21:30] But now the survey has actually been done.
[1:21:32] So we now know the exact dimensions of the property.
[1:21:35] The boundaries have been fixed and most importantly the
[1:21:38] topography has been surveyed.
[1:21:40] So we now have the topography of the property set.
[1:21:43] And with that I'll just mention basically
[1:21:45] it's roughly what we thought.
[1:21:47] That the property is relatively flat
[1:21:49] for about three quarters of the way back ish.
[1:21:51] And then there's a slope basically from there.
[1:21:55] Now in addition there was a wetlands
[1:21:57] delineation that was completed.
[1:21:59] So Mary Trudeau who's here with us this evening, went out
[1:22:02] and flagged the wetlands, the surveyor went
[1:22:04] and I then located where those flags were
[1:22:06] and that's on one of the plans
[1:22:08] that I think you have in your packets.
[1:22:10] So we now know with a reasonable degree of certainty
[1:22:13] where the wetlands line is and that
[1:22:15] therefore informs us where the buffer zone is.
[1:22:18] The two buffer zones, the 50 foot and the a hundred foot.
[1:22:22] We also have advanced our design.
[1:22:25] So the prelim, the design is still not final,
[1:22:27] it's still a bit preliminary but it's been advanced
[1:22:30] and is still in keeping with what you have seen previously.
[1:22:34] But basically the location of the houses
[1:22:37] we're still proposing 10 units in five duplexes.
[1:22:40] But the exact location has changed a bit.
[1:22:43] The shape has changed a bit.
[1:22:45] If you remember on one of the earlier versions there were
[1:22:48] these little sort of cutouts where the garages were
[1:22:50] and those have now been disposed with
[1:22:52] and it's just a flat kind of garage face.
[1:22:55] Instead of having cars have to come in
[1:22:57] and negotiate these little cutout areas,
[1:23:01] we've had discussions with the fire department
[1:23:03] and they have given us feedback that they're looking
[1:23:05] for a 16 to 18 foot clear space to be able
[1:23:10] to get in with their vehicles and equipment.
[1:23:13] And so we've taken that into account when we,
[1:23:15] when we located the houses.
[1:23:18] And then, let's see, yeah,
[1:23:21] and then we've basically just tweaked the design a little
[1:23:23] bit to sort of take into account
[1:23:25] the information that we now have.
[1:23:27] We still, there's still sprinkled, there's still, oh
[1:23:30] and most recently on the fire department
[1:23:32] they have advised us that they would like
[1:23:34] to see the building sprinkled
[1:23:36] and we're perfectly fine with that.
[1:23:37] And so that's something that we'll be incorporating.
[1:23:39] It's not in any of your materials yet
[1:23:41] 'cause we just, that was just learned that recently.
[1:23:43] So we'll incorporate that in
[1:23:44] and that will be a part going forward.
[1:23:47] So as I indicated, the project remains 10 total units in
[1:23:51] five duplexes
[1:23:53] and while it is not a cast in stone standard,
[1:23:58] it has generally been the rule of thumb for the board
[1:24:01] of appeals when they evaluate 40 B projects as well
[1:24:04] as in a general zoning context that you look
[1:24:07] for roughly 16 units per acre as your sort
[1:24:10] of your target maximum density.
[1:24:12] If you do the math based on that, then you wind up
[1:24:15] with this site would support roughly 12 units
[1:24:20] and we are at 10 units below that.
[1:24:22] So we, we still think
[1:24:23] that this is an appropriate size development based on that.
[1:24:26] Now as I said, it's not a cast and stone thing,
[1:24:28] but it has has been a standard that has been used
[1:24:31] to evaluate I think pretty much every 40 B
[1:24:33] that has gone through the board of appeals.
[1:24:34] And certainly a lot of other projects
[1:24:36] that have come through the town as well.
[1:24:39] 30% of the units will, units will be affordable.
[1:24:43] This is something we have now defined
[1:24:45] and that is in excess of the 25%
[1:24:47] that is required by Chapter 40 B.
[1:24:49] So we're going over and above on that.
[1:24:51] Now with the wetlands having been delineated said,
[1:24:54] we now know where the 50 foot
[1:24:55] and the a hundred foot buffer is for the,
[1:24:58] for any board members that aren't aware
[1:25:00] of the way the wetlands bylaw works
[1:25:02] and the way the Wetlands Protection Act works,
[1:25:04] generally speaking, towns have discretion over how much
[1:25:08] they wanna regulate
[1:25:09] and condition work that's done within a
[1:25:11] hundred feet of a wetlands.
[1:25:13] Some towns are, are sort of lenient
[1:25:16] and they let you basically go right up to the line
[1:25:19] and other towns are more strict.
[1:25:20] Needham is on the stricter side of the scale.
[1:25:23] Generally speaking, they don't want your,
[1:25:25] they certainly don't want you touching anything
[1:25:27] within the first 25 feet.
[1:25:28] They really don't like anything within the first 50 feet.
[1:25:30] But then once you get further out, basically sort of,
[1:25:34] you know, 70, 75 feet plus you can do certain work
[1:25:38] but you have to go through a process
[1:25:39] to get an order of conditions from them.
[1:25:42] And so that is something we do anticipate that we will need
[1:25:45] to do and we're comfortable doing that
[1:25:47] and working within the ordinary wetlands program.
[1:25:51] So nothing, so we don't expect anything sort of
[1:25:54] beyond the scope of what any other project
[1:25:56] would necessarily require.
[1:25:57] But we will be going into the buffer zone a bit up
[1:26:00] to about 70 feet from the wellins.
[1:26:02] So there's about 30 feet
[1:26:03] of the buffer we'll be doing some work in.
[1:26:06] And we now know that because of the wetlands, alienation
[1:26:08] and the survey, we also now know based on the
[1:26:13] information from the fire department
[1:26:16] that they want 16 to 18 feet clear.
[1:26:17] We've located the buildings so that the, the separation
[1:26:21] between the wall of the building
[1:26:23] and the property line generally is at least 18 feet,
[1:26:26] but it's really functionally 20 feet.
[1:26:28] So we've got adequate space there.
[1:26:30] So we now know that previously we didn't have a set number
[1:26:33] on that at 20 feet it is well in excess
[1:26:36] of the 14 foot minimum side yard setback in the,
[1:26:39] that applies in the district. So
[1:26:40] It says 18 feet here.
[1:26:42] Are you saying that that's changed to 20
[1:26:44] Feet?
[1:26:45] So it's, it's 18 feet at certain points,
[1:26:46] but like at the garage portions it's 20 feet
[1:26:52] with that and, and with the survey having been complete,
[1:26:54] although we don't have a finished drainage design
[1:26:57] that's still a bit off, we do now have a good idea
[1:27:00] of the topography and the likely grading of the site.
[1:27:03] So we are confident
[1:27:05] and we don't expect needing any waivers
[1:27:08] or any extraordinary relief when it
[1:27:10] comes to stormwater control.
[1:27:11] We think that we'll be able to manage that on site.
[1:27:13] We can't say that for absolute thousand percent certain just
[1:27:17] yet because we do have to do some test pits on the site.
[1:27:20] But as the board is aware, I think Mr.
[1:27:22] Toi did do the project next door,
[1:27:24] which was substantially similar.
[1:27:25] So he has some working knowledge of what the,
[1:27:27] the underground conditions likely will be based on that.
[1:27:30] And if they do turn out to be what we expect,
[1:27:32] then we should be able to meet
[1:27:35] and comply with the applicable stormwater bylaw
[1:27:37] and not have to get any special relief on that front.
[1:27:44] And then we also, now that the survey's been done
[1:27:47] and we know the grades and the slope
[1:27:49] and we have our sort
[1:27:50] of first preliminary projected grading done, we know
[1:27:53] that we likely we won't need to bring any fill to the site
[1:27:56] and in fact we'll probably have
[1:27:57] to remove some material from the site and take it off.
[1:28:00] 'cause there's probably gonna be too much there. All right.
[1:28:02] Now, now that we've got all this done,
[1:28:04] we also have a better idea of what sort
[1:28:06] of waivers we might need.
[1:28:07] And this was one of the questions
[1:28:08] that the board had for us last time.
[1:28:10] And now that we've gone through this,
[1:28:12] we know we can cite the buildings to comply
[1:28:16] with setback requirements.
[1:28:18] We know that we can, they will comply with a number
[1:28:20] of things but there are, there are a few waivers
[1:28:23] that we definitely will need.
[1:28:25] Three of the waivers are sort of part
[1:28:27] and parcel with the nature of a project like this.
[1:28:29] They're just, this is just
[1:28:30] what you get when you have a multi-unit sort of dense
[1:28:34] or some somewhat dense project.
[1:28:35] So first off, we are gonna be needing a waiver on use
[1:28:39] because this is a single family residential zoning district.
[1:28:41] So we obviously we'll need a waiver with respect to use
[1:28:45] in connection with that.
[1:28:46] We'll also need a waivers for percentage of lot coverage
[1:28:50] because in the SRB district you're limited
[1:28:53] to only 25% and we are over that.
[1:28:55] We'll also need a waiver from floor area ratio.
[1:28:58] And both of those sort
[1:28:59] of are tied part and parcel with the nature.
[1:29:01] 'cause obviously you're doing multiple units,
[1:29:04] multiple buildings, you're gonna be over the,
[1:29:05] the single family threshold.
[1:29:07] And then we expect, we think
[1:29:09] that there's a reasonable possibility
[1:29:11] that we might need a waiver on height.
[1:29:13] We don't know that for sure yet
[1:29:14] because we're still working with the design on the buildings
[1:29:18] and also on the final, the sort of the fine points
[1:29:20] of the grading and the way height is
[1:29:23] calculated in the bylaw.
[1:29:25] You know, it's based on, there's a couple
[1:29:26] of different ways you can do it
[1:29:27] and we need
[1:29:29] to do final calculations based on the final design
[1:29:31] of the houses to know whether we're above the height or not.
[1:29:35] If we are above, we don't think we're gonna be above
[1:29:37] by a huge amount, but we may need a waiver on the height.
[1:29:40] We just don't know yet. So I'm putting that out there just
[1:29:42] so it's not, if we do need it,
[1:29:43] you can't say we didn't tell you,
[1:29:45] but other than those waivers, we don't expect
[1:29:48] to need any other zoning related waivers.
[1:29:51] Alright, so unlike other projects that need a laundry list,
[1:29:55] so Chestnut Street comes to mind
[1:29:58] that needed quite a few zoning waivers.
[1:30:00] We really won't need a lot.
[1:30:02] And in fact, really three three
[1:30:04] of the four waivers we will need are, are
[1:30:07] really essential part of the project itself.
[1:30:09] And you would need almost regardless of size
[1:30:11] or scope, if you're doing any sort of project like this,
[1:30:13] you'd need those waivers.
[1:30:15] Then we technically will also need
[1:30:17] waivers for parking design.
[1:30:20] Each unit is proposed to have a two car garage,
[1:30:23] so there's adequate parking spaces.
[1:30:25] But the way the parking design guidelines work,
[1:30:28] there's certain things that, like the spaces are supposed
[1:30:31] to be configured in a certain way
[1:30:32] and having them inside a garage just they automatically
[1:30:34] don't comply with certain aspects.
[1:30:36] So we will need a waiver from that.
[1:30:38] But I'll point out that an ordinary project
[1:30:42] can ask for a waiver under the zoning bylaw anyways.
[1:30:45] So, so needing a waiver under
[1:30:46] that is not a unusual condition.
[1:30:48] Many commercial projects actually request
[1:30:51] and receive waivers for design
[1:30:53] because the design requirements are specific.
[1:30:56] And for example, one of them is you have to, you're supposed
[1:30:58] to illuminate all of your parking areas,
[1:31:02] a one foot candle per inch
[1:31:03] and invariably many parking areas, if you do that,
[1:31:06] you're gonna have, they're gonna be actually two bright
[1:31:08] or you're gonna have lights where you don't want 'em.
[1:31:10] And so typ, that's a typical waiver
[1:31:12] that is often given in connection with projects.
[1:31:16] And then finally a project
[1:31:18] of this size would typically require major project site plan
[1:31:21] review with the planning board.
[1:31:22] And so that's a waiver that we would need more
[1:31:24] of a procedural waiver than an actual
[1:31:26] substantive zoning waiver.
[1:31:29] So now we've identified sort of our base waivers.
[1:31:32] We've got, we've, we've, we've fine tuned our project a bit.
[1:31:35] We know what the property is, we know the grading,
[1:31:37] we know the wetlands and so on.
[1:31:38] So now we're at the point where we're teeing up to do more
[1:31:43] complete drainage design and getting into that
[1:31:45] and fine tuning our design of the houses.
[1:31:47] So this was, this is a very good time to meet with the board
[1:31:51] and ask for your continued input.
[1:31:53] We know that this is a process
[1:31:55] and it will continue to go on.
[1:31:57] Michael has had meetings with the neighbors.
[1:31:59] He just hit another one recently
[1:32:00] and I expect we'll have several more as we go forward.
[1:32:02] But we do wanna make sure to touch base with the board
[1:32:05] because as I indicated at the outset,
[1:32:07] this is a lip is a cooperative joint kind of project.
[1:32:10] And if the board is inclined to support us on this, it,
[1:32:12] it's sort of, I mean it has to be kind of a two way street
[1:32:15] and we have to be giving the project
[1:32:17] that the board wants on behalf of the town.
[1:32:19] So we would love to hear your input
[1:32:22] and any questions that you might have at this point.
[1:32:25] Excellent. We're just gonna go down the line here
[1:32:28] 'cause I'm sure that everyone has things to say.
[1:32:31] Kevin, do you wanna get us started?
[1:32:33] Sure. Okay. Garages, are they underneath?
[1:32:38] Yes. Are they? Okay.
[1:32:40] So as I look at it, how long are these dry?
[1:32:43] What's the, the driveways look short.
[1:32:47] What's the pitch on them to go underneath?
[1:32:49] Michael, do You wanna answer?
[1:32:50] Yeah, I'm not clear on your question.
[1:32:52] Okay. So as I'm looking at,
[1:32:54] there's a access road coming in on either side,
[1:32:58] then there's a proposed driveway that looks,
[1:33:01] I don't have a measurement on the length of it.
[1:33:03] Are we talking about the from front street
[1:33:06] to back of property or? No, from
[1:33:08] Side to side?
[1:33:09] From side to side. So you gotta turn into your garage.
[1:33:12] You have a proposed driveway
[1:33:13] that looks like maybe it's five feet,
[1:33:17] The, And it goes down.
[1:33:19] So what's your pitch to clear a garage door?
[1:33:23] So the garage floor is about four feet below the street.
[1:33:26] Okay. So it's not, it's a,
[1:33:28] So the rise over run is what?
[1:33:30] But is that below?
[1:33:32] So he's asking the driveway that comes down the side
[1:33:35] and then the garage that comes off of that.
[1:33:37] The difference between the, the driveway
[1:33:39] on the side and the garage,
[1:33:41] That's fairly level.
[1:33:42] It'll be pitched enough to force our water to go
[1:33:46] to our collection basis,
[1:33:49] but it's, it, it's insignificant.
[1:33:52] So it's not a full garage under, it's not a full floor
[1:33:54] Under No, it, No, it's a full garage under,
[1:33:56] but it's the, so what we're proposing is
[1:34:01] going down four feet Yeah.
[1:34:04] With the garage floor from the street
[1:34:07] and then we'll be four feet above
[1:34:10] that gives us our full eight feet.
[1:34:11] Yeah. Underneath from the grading.
[1:34:16] And maybe it's time to show, I don't know
[1:34:20] if this will help any working at this.
[1:34:24] Our grading here,
[1:34:31] the floor is at 2 2 73.
[1:34:35] I'm sorry. First floor is
[1:34:38] 2 73, 2 64.
[1:34:42] We're 2 64 here.
[1:34:44] And the street is at 2 67 above grade.
[1:34:49] I'm sorry, what is that number? Three feet difference.
[1:34:52] Got it. Variation of three feet from the street.
[1:34:55] So that's a very reasonable pitch as it grades down
[1:35:00] and as it comes down, it will
[1:35:04] always be pitched away from the garage,
[1:35:05] four from the garage floor.
[1:35:07] So we'll maintain our swale on the, on the road itself
[1:35:11] or on the, on the driveway itself
[1:35:14] and push it to our collection basins that we'll have
[1:35:19] Right on the driveway.
[1:35:20] But now for a motorist going into the drive,
[1:35:23] into the garage, they're gonna take a hard turn.
[1:35:26] Right turn. Suppose what's the rise
[1:35:29] over run on that driveway?
[1:35:31] At the driveway level?
[1:35:33] It's gonna be fairly, we will drop quickly Yeah,
[1:35:35] from the street down to our 2 64.
[1:35:39] Okay. So that's fairly, that's fairly flat.
[1:35:44] So and then going into the, and going into the garage.
[1:35:47] Yeah. So basically from the street drops down and then it's,
[1:35:50] Yeah, it drops on essentially
[1:35:51] At the garage level, but so there's not another Yeah.
[1:35:54] So you're envisioning like a drop and then a drop and
[1:35:57] No, I'm a road drop.
[1:35:58] But I'm wondering what's our angle,
[1:36:01] because this seems really tight. I,
[1:36:05] It's, to answer your question, it's fairly level through.
[1:36:08] It will be pitched. Yeah. So we can control the water. Okay.
[1:36:12] But it'll be fairly pitched, it'll be very easy to maneuver.
[1:36:16] You have much tighter spaces around town.
[1:36:19] Okay. Speaking of water, so we're collecting an inch
[1:36:23] and a half off the roof and all hardscapes, right?
[1:36:26] Correct. So has to be, it'll be treated
[1:36:30] as well right off the hardscapes.
[1:36:33] Right. Okay. So in the bylaw it's three
[1:36:37] before each S-C-S-C-M that you have,
[1:36:40] and I'm counting, I'm just looking at them in precise map.
[1:36:44] Okay. The plant is 36 SCM chambers. Right.
[1:36:48] That you have on here.
[1:36:50] A again, we haven't done our test pits,
[1:36:52] but I know it's gravel and it's probably a one minute perk.
[1:36:57] And if that means anything to you,
[1:36:59] the water just basically goes through
[1:37:01] it, it drops a foot in a minute.
[1:37:03] Okay. And our water table, when I dug next door,
[1:37:07] we dug down 12 feet and saw no water and no staining either.
[1:37:11] So I'm very confident in what,
[1:37:15] what our soil conditions are Right.
[1:37:17] As well as our water level.
[1:37:18] And we can contain whatever water volume we need to,
[1:37:22] to pick up the roof and any of the hardscape.
[1:37:24] Yeah. So, and the design right now is 36 s scms right?
[1:37:29] On this? Yeah, that's an estimate. Okay.
[1:37:33] It's, but there'll be calculations that we'll have
[1:37:36] to prove out to prove exactly
[1:37:38] what we have to do there. Alright,
[1:37:39] So then there'll be three,
[1:37:41] two inch cper trees per chamber, correct.
[1:37:44] As by the bylaw.
[1:37:46] So those, you will have by this,
[1:37:49] you're gonna have 108 saplings on this property.
[1:37:56] That might be a lot.
[1:37:59] I, I could tell you we had to,
[1:38:03] we we did a double lot in Wellesley.
[1:38:06] Yeah. And we probably put that many on less than a half an
[1:38:11] or about a half an acre.
[1:38:12] Okay. Okay.
[1:38:17] But I think you're gonna have to,
[1:38:18] that'll be the standard to go.
[1:38:21] There's there were also alternatives to
[1:38:23] that if it gets too crowded, I mean we can
[1:38:26] contribute to funds and
[1:38:28] So let's check that out.
[1:38:31] I'm not sure.
[1:38:36] Okay.
[1:38:38] Anything else Kevin? Well actually I gotta say
[1:38:41] ultimately if you want my editorializing, I mean,
[1:38:44] I'm interested in that part.
[1:38:45] This just feels too dense.
[1:38:47] It feels like five feet between buildings is too dense.
[1:38:52] I, my, as I look at this now,
[1:38:55] I'm really not in favor of this.
[1:38:58] If you took out the, I don't care what you do,
[1:39:02] but you build what you want, what you're,
[1:39:04] what you think you can sell.
[1:39:06] But I would remove one, the one
[1:39:11] of the buildings and spread the other ones out
[1:39:14] to make something a bit more breathable.
[1:39:16] I mean, but I think it just feels for the
[1:39:21] location for the neighborhood, it feels too tight.
[1:39:24] It's just too dense.
[1:39:27] And then you don't have to plan as many saplings
[1:39:30] because you won't have, your algebra will change.
[1:39:34] But that's my sense. I think it just feels too tight.
[1:39:38] Okay. Josh, Thank you.
[1:39:41] I guess I, I've said before, I'm not a fan
[1:39:43] of the, the 40 B process.
[1:39:46] I mean, I think we have zoning
[1:39:47] and that that's how I'd prefer to do things.
[1:39:50] I guess it, you know, if we,
[1:39:52] if we do end up using this process,
[1:39:54] I I would really first want
[1:39:56] to get comments from town departments so that we have,
[1:39:59] I know you've spoken with the fire department,
[1:40:00] we haven't seen those comments
[1:40:02] or comm from other departments.
[1:40:03] So that, that would be something important to me
[1:40:05] because there are a lot of tech technical aspects that I,
[1:40:08] I'm not an expert in and I can't evaluate.
[1:40:10] I mean, I, I do look at this map
[1:40:12] and I see that nearly the entire
[1:40:16] back building is within the a hundred foot wetland area.
[1:40:20] I, I don't know how to evaluate that,
[1:40:22] but I know that that is something the Conservation
[1:40:24] commission would, would flag.
[1:40:29] The other thing that that is concerning is, is the waiving
[1:40:32] of site plan review because that is the mechanism
[1:40:35] for the town to, to protect its interests.
[1:40:38] I mean, we talk about, you know, the MBTA zoning
[1:40:41] that we just put in place, even that has site plan review.
[1:40:44] So I would not be in favor of a project that,
[1:40:47] that seeks a waiver of all site plan review. Can,
[1:40:50] Can I just address that one point?
[1:40:52] Yeah. Just, just so the process is clear
[1:40:54] and I know not all the board members have followed a 40 B
[1:40:57] through all the way through, but it's a,
[1:41:00] it's almost a technical waiver
[1:41:01] because even though we ask for the waiver
[1:41:04] of major project site plan review, what ends up happening,
[1:41:07] we file with the board of Appeals, board
[1:41:08] of Appeals conducts their full hearing.
[1:41:10] And as a part of that,
[1:41:12] the planning board issues their opinion.
[1:41:15] And typically, especially on a project like this, we appear
[1:41:17] before the planning board and we have a whole presentation
[1:41:19] with them essentially in substance almost exactly like
[1:41:24] what we would do with the major project site plan process.
[1:41:27] Except we don't submit a site plan
[1:41:29] application to the planning board.
[1:41:31] They review it and they make their recommendation
[1:41:33] to the board of appeals and then board
[1:41:34] of appeals makes the decision.
[1:41:36] So it doesn't technically go through site plan review,
[1:41:39] but it, as a matter of practice, it does, you know,
[1:41:43] in all practicality, it goes through the planning board
[1:41:45] and it goes through engineer
[1:41:46] and goes through all the departments.
[1:41:47] So they comment and they review it
[1:41:50] and that, so the concern that you're talking about, yeah,
[1:41:53] it, that, that gets addressed in the process.
[1:41:54] It's just in 40 bs it gets addressed a little bit
[1:41:57] differently than it would in your
[1:41:58] customary commercial project.
[1:42:00] Rather than having to go to three or four
[1:42:02] or five different boards, you go to the ZBA
[1:42:05] and the ZBA is sort
[1:42:06] of the collecting point for everybody else.
[1:42:09] I, I guess, but maybe this, this goes to Kevin's point.
[1:42:11] The reason why it triggers the major product site plan is
[1:42:13] because of its mass, because of its scale.
[1:42:16] And, and I guess an easy way to,
[1:42:20] to avoid it without asking for a
[1:42:22] waiver would be to reduce the scale.
[1:42:23] The reason why we have that trigger is
[1:42:24] because large projects demand more scrutiny.
[1:42:29] I I don't disagree on that point,
[1:42:31] but essentially anything other than a single
[1:42:35] or, well basically certainly four units are
[1:42:38] above would likely trigger major
[1:42:39] project site plan review here.
[1:42:41] 'cause the threshold is low enough,
[1:42:42] it's 10,000 square feet of area.
[1:42:44] And so basically at,
[1:42:46] so these units are roughly 22, 2300 square feet per
[1:42:49] unit, four units.
[1:42:50] You know, you're rough almost there. Right.
[1:42:52] So probably, you know, any development
[1:42:57] that would be in, in keeping with the size of the site
[1:43:00] and for example, in keeping with the project
[1:43:02] that was done next door is gonna trigger major projects like
[1:43:04] Plan Rio just 'cause of the size.
[1:43:05] So I'm not sure that scaling it back, like you'd have
[1:43:09] to scale it back to like a duplex
[1:43:11] or a single, you know, maybe three, which is kind of
[1:43:15] almost the opposite of what the concept is here.
[1:43:19] If I could also have Mary, maybe discuss a little bit
[1:43:23] with the wetlands issues.
[1:43:27] Yeah, good evening. I, as George had noted,
[1:43:32] I had gone out and done the wetlands delineation,
[1:43:35] which is an evaluation that looks at both soils, hydrology
[1:43:39] and wetlands vegetation.
[1:43:42] The wetland area is located on an adjacent property,
[1:43:47] but that doesn't matter under the Wetlands Protection Act
[1:43:50] because it's, it takes a holistic view of it.
[1:43:54] In Needham, the Conservation Commission typically has a very
[1:43:58] strict zero to 25 foot no disturb zone.
[1:44:01] And that's just blanket across most projects
[1:44:06] that are in front of the Conservation commission.
[1:44:08] Because this project has a naturally wooded,
[1:44:13] albeit filled with invasives
[1:44:15] and non-native species slope, I believe
[1:44:18] that the Conservation commission will impose a 50 foot
[1:44:21] no disturbed zone on this property.
[1:44:24] So in light of that, Mike has pulled his unit back
[1:44:28] to about 70 feet from the edge of wetland.
[1:44:32] As you may be aware,
[1:44:34] the buffer zone is a regulated area.
[1:44:37] It's not a resource area like the bordering vegetated
[1:44:40] wetlands down at the bottom of the hill.
[1:44:42] Those are one of the most highly protected
[1:44:44] resources in Massachusetts.
[1:44:46] Buffer zone is regulated
[1:44:48] and it is protected in the sense that it is protective
[1:44:52] of the down gradient wetlands.
[1:44:54] So it doesn't have a strict set of performance standards
[1:44:58] because it's supposed to be unique
[1:44:59] and it, it looks at what's happening here.
[1:45:02] The plan that we have proposed on this site plan,
[1:45:07] I think is approvable
[1:45:08] by the Needham Conservation Commission under both the local
[1:45:11] bylaw and the State Wetlands Protection Act
[1:45:14] that we wouldn't necessarily need any waivers at all from
[1:45:18] their traditional book.
[1:45:21] See, at a project like this, we will have
[1:45:26] to meet stormwater management under the mass DEP regulations
[1:45:29] because we're more than four units, which is an extra level
[1:45:33] of protection above what your local bylaw has,
[1:45:37] that it looks at several different interests
[1:45:39] that towns typically do.
[1:45:41] But it makes for a fairly rigorous review
[1:45:44] by your local conservation commission.
[1:45:46] My guess is that they probably would go out
[1:45:48] for a third party review depending
[1:45:51] who is on their commission right now in terms
[1:45:53] of engineering expertise, you know, so
[1:45:55] that you would be getting part of that site plan review
[1:45:58] from the commission as well in their permitting process.
[1:46:03] No, thank you for that. I, and I respect your expertise.
[1:46:06] I think I would want to also ask for the expertise
[1:46:09] of our director of conservation.
[1:46:10] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
[1:46:12] No, I'm, I'm a hired gun. You know, you can talk.
[1:46:17] All right, bill,
[1:46:19] As you may know, we're getting a lot of comments on this,
[1:46:21] you know, and, and some of the things that we've just heard
[1:46:24] recently is, you know, the, you know, neighbors
[1:46:27] and people who are nearby are concerned about you're gonna
[1:46:30] have to build some retaining walls.
[1:46:32] How are we gonna do that? How how's that gonna be done?
[1:46:34] So it'll look good. It won't
[1:46:37] infringe on the properties next door.
[1:46:39] And the other talk about the 132 trees, that's a, that,
[1:46:43] that all goes into screening, you know,
[1:46:44] how how's the screening gonna be done
[1:46:46] because, you know, the, the driveways are on this side
[1:46:49] and that your other previous project, which is great
[1:46:51] and you know, has been great for a long time.
[1:46:54] You know, how, how we, how are we gonna be able
[1:46:56] to screen some from that with, with, with some
[1:46:58] of the concerns that, that I see.
[1:47:01] So the, we would not require a, a retaining wall
[1:47:06] above four feet under any circumstances anyway.
[1:47:09] We can always slope from the other property.
[1:47:11] I've also had some comments from one of the neighbors
[1:47:15] that maybe we share some space in between and,
[1:47:19] and do some landscaping in between,
[1:47:20] which we'd be more than happy to do
[1:47:25] the, I'm sorry, your on the,
[1:47:28] The screening that you said.
[1:47:29] Should you share that basic?
[1:47:32] We, we have most of these comments
[1:47:35] that we're hearing now are the same comments we heard when
[1:47:39] we did Brown Whitney 24, 22 years ago.
[1:47:45] And after it was done, everybody thought it was beautiful.
[1:47:48] Change is always hard for people to visualize
[1:47:52] and it seems impactful.
[1:47:54] These buildings are only a few feet higher than the
[1:47:57] brown Whitney buildings.
[1:47:58] And in volume they're, they're on the first
[1:48:02] and second floor are probably less than 15% Difference.
[1:48:07] Times have changed. Demands have changed.
[1:48:09] People want different things than what,
[1:48:12] we can't just build something
[1:48:14] and hope somebody's gonna want it.
[1:48:16] We have to listen to the marketplace.
[1:48:18] And we've all seen that the changes
[1:48:20] that have come in the size of construction
[1:48:23] that's happened over the years.
[1:48:26] We have not led that charge on bigger properties.
[1:48:30] We've, if you look at most of the things we build,
[1:48:33] we build undersize
[1:48:34] and we get punished a little bit for it financially,
[1:48:37] but it's what we try to do.
[1:48:39] We tried, we care about the town, we like the town, we want
[1:48:43] to drive by something and be happy that we built it.
[1:48:48] It we're, my family has been in this town
[1:48:51] for a very long time, and if you drive around
[1:48:54] and look at the different properties
[1:48:56] that we've built over the years
[1:48:58] and there's well over a hundred, they, the ones
[1:49:02] that are well taken care of, which is most of them,
[1:49:06] most people appreciate.
[1:49:07] We, we won an award for building, for doing Brown Whitney,
[1:49:12] and a lot of the neighbors that opposed us
[1:49:17] ended up coming up to me later
[1:49:20] and apologizing for all the, of what they put us through.
[1:49:26] Now we wanna work with the neighbors
[1:49:28] and we wanna work with the board.
[1:49:31] Our hope was,
[1:49:32] and the reason we came in with the five buildings
[1:49:35] as we were trying to get that extra affordable unit for
[1:49:40] some family that, you know, would benefit for it.
[1:49:44] And we're in a position where, you know, if the board wants
[1:49:49] that extra room, we're willing to do that.
[1:49:51] If they're not, we're willing to listen to the concerns that
[1:49:55] as well as with the neighbors on, on
[1:49:58] how to go forward with this.
[1:50:01] Are you all set? I I don't think the, I mean,
[1:50:03] of course we wanna follow up our housing for everyone,
[1:50:05] but I think the density is more important
[1:50:08] than the affordable housing.
[1:50:10] And we're here asking for that feedback too.
[1:50:13] That's just my personal opinion.
[1:50:15] Sure. Kathy?
[1:50:18] Yes. Actually, on the point of the affordable units,
[1:50:21] I'm interested in, in the pricing.
[1:50:25] So the market rate units
[1:50:27] targeted at 1.75 million
[1:50:30] and the affordable at seven to 800,000.
[1:50:33] Does that track to a percentage of
[1:50:37] median area income
[1:50:39] or how, how does that affordable number come about?
[1:50:43] It's built around the median income of Needham.
[1:50:46] It's designed and the, the regulation determines what
[1:50:50] that we don't determine the price we have
[1:50:52] to fit into whatever the town.
[1:50:54] And, and so I put a range in there only
[1:50:57] because I don't, I did some quick math,
[1:50:59] but that's gonna have to be approved by right
[1:51:04] by the, the powers to be on that.
[1:51:08] Okay. Anything else Kathy? No, that I'm all set.
[1:51:13] Okay. Well, for, for myself, I would say
[1:51:17] my concern is not density.
[1:51:19] I think that density in particular places is,
[1:51:23] is not only okay, it's good for the town
[1:51:26] and specifically good in this kind of configuration
[1:51:29] where you have the sort of the central grassy area.
[1:51:32] My concern is about the size of the buildings.
[1:51:36] I think that there's, these houses are, are quite large
[1:51:42] and I I do think
[1:51:44] that they are a bit unrealistic for the space.
[1:51:47] I guess my question is really that the,
[1:51:52] a lip profit is limited by state statute to 20%
[1:51:56] of the development cost.
[1:51:58] So it seems to me,
[1:52:02] and I'm not a real estate mogul,
[1:52:05] but I will say that if, if you are, if you are basing
[1:52:10] all of the, the math on your development costs
[1:52:13] and it seems as though it might be worth your while
[1:52:16] to consider reducing the size of the buildings,
[1:52:20] I think personally that that would bring you into
[1:52:24] competition for some of the folks who would like to downsize
[1:52:27] as well as new families.
[1:52:29] I note that the previous, the Brown Whitney development,
[1:52:34] those, those buildings are much smaller
[1:52:37] and we received letters from families
[1:52:40] that moved into those houses and remain in those houses
[1:52:43] and were able to comfortably raise families and stuff.
[1:52:46] I do understand that modern living
[1:52:49] perhaps has some amenities that we've all become used to,
[1:52:52] but I do think that these do seem to be
[1:52:56] quite large given that your profit
[1:52:59] is hinging on your development costs.
[1:53:04] I do wonder if, you know,
[1:53:06] if your development costs were reduced, that
[1:53:08] that might make it easier for you.
[1:53:09] I think it also might make it a little easier to,
[1:53:11] to gain this board's approval
[1:53:13] and to gain the approval of the neighbors
[1:53:15] because many of the letters
[1:53:16] that we received actually indicated support for the concept.
[1:53:20] But a feeling that the mass
[1:53:22] of the buildings was just too much.
[1:53:25] I mean, I I hear you about the height.
[1:53:29] I think that height is an issue across town
[1:53:32] and that it doesn't make sense to necessarily replicate,
[1:53:35] you know, that we have a, a height, a,
[1:53:38] a warrant about amending our heights across town, coming
[1:53:41] to our special town meeting in October.
[1:53:44] So I guess I would say that generally speaking,
[1:53:49] I would be supportive of this project,
[1:53:51] but I would like to see the size more
[1:53:56] in line with what the rest of the street is.
[1:53:59] You know, the development that you've already done next door
[1:54:02] and the single family residences.
[1:54:04] I mean, that would allow you a good deal more spot
[1:54:08] for all your trees, for example.
[1:54:12] So IIII will also say that I do have
[1:54:15] confidence in the ZBA to run the process appropriately
[1:54:19] to manage all the oversight that is required
[1:54:21] and is mandated by state law.
[1:54:23] So that to me is not an issue.
[1:54:26] I think for me the issue is just the size,
[1:54:29] but again, the density I think is as demonstrated
[1:54:32] by the development next door.
[1:54:34] Not really the issue. It's really the, the mass.
[1:54:39] So does that give you the kind of clarity
[1:54:42] that you need across
[1:54:43] The board?
[1:54:44] If I, if I could talk a little bit about the,
[1:54:45] now we're staying under, we, we do
[1:54:49] anticipate there's a potential of a height
[1:54:53] adjustments coming.
[1:54:56] We are staying under that with these buildings.
[1:54:59] So just so you know, we did take that into consideration.
[1:55:04] Again, we're only about 2200 square feet on,
[1:55:08] on two floors.
[1:55:10] The Brown Whitney doesn't have a third floor dormers
[1:55:14] or any, there were a lot of the zoning issues that came up
[1:55:17] that, that have have evolved since then.
[1:55:22] And one of the things that we were trying
[1:55:25] to do here was have a first floor bedroom
[1:55:29] and that takes up space in footprint.
[1:55:32] So it becomes problematic in trying to shrink it too much.
[1:55:35] But we will take a look at it.
[1:55:37] I'm not saying that we won't,
[1:55:38] I'm just giving you an explanation
[1:55:39] of why Sure. We did what we did.
[1:55:41] I mean, I wonder if you could make that
[1:55:44] a flexible floor plan.
[1:55:45] So a young, an older downsizing couple could use it
[1:55:49] as a bedroom and a family could use it
[1:55:52] as an office, for example.
[1:55:53] I mean, you know, it seems like there's ways to, but
[1:55:56] That space itself, in order to include
[1:55:59] that on a first floor
[1:56:02] and still have a family room that works for,
[1:56:05] for most people, we need, we need that extra space now.
[1:56:10] We can, we can take a look at our design, we will do that.
[1:56:14] Sure. But we're, we're just trying
[1:56:17] to accommodate those things.
[1:56:18] And we also saved a space for somebody
[1:56:21] that might want an elevator coming up from the basement
[1:56:25] to the, to that first floor level.
[1:56:30] So if somebody wanted, they could, with the garage under,
[1:56:34] knowing that a lot of the people
[1:56:37] that are gonna buy these have a potential of being retirees,
[1:56:42] don't wanna walk those stairs
[1:56:43] or bring groceries up those stairs.
[1:56:45] Sure. But I mean, generally I think the location is,
[1:56:48] is terrific for this kind of development
[1:56:51] and I I hope that you'll find a way
[1:56:53] to make it just a little bit more palatable. Okay.
[1:56:55] Thank you. Okay. Thanks very much
[1:56:57] for coming in. Thank you all.
[1:56:58] Thanks. Thank you.
[1:57:10] Excuse me. A
[1:57:14] I'm sticking to the chair too.
[1:57:29] Okay. Now that it's seven 20, we'll move on
[1:57:33] to the proposed installation of the, the Accidental Artist,
[1:57:38] A public mural at 1299 Highland Avenue
[1:57:42] and subbing in for Abby Bernstein
[1:57:44] who couldn't be here Tonight will be our Deputy town manager
[1:57:49] and our director of Economic Development.
[1:57:53] Welcome. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:57:56] So As you mentioned, Abby couldn't be here tonight.
[1:57:59] She's the chair of the Needle Council for Arts
[1:58:00] and Culture due to a family emergency.
[1:58:03] So I just wanna be clear at the outset
[1:58:04] that I'm very much here relaying Abby's sentiments in the
[1:58:07] work of the NCAC.
[1:58:09] John is our current liaison to the council,
[1:58:11] but I had the privilege of serving as the liaison last fall
[1:58:14] and into the early winter, which overlapped with some
[1:58:17] of the formative steps of this project.
[1:58:18] So I bore witness to the tremendous amount of thought, time,
[1:58:22] care, and effort that Abby
[1:58:23] and the council put into getting this right.
[1:58:26] We didn't want Abby's absence
[1:58:27] to delay the board's presentation.
[1:58:28] Tonight, the artist is prepared to begin almost immediately,
[1:58:32] once the remaining accounting
[1:58:34] and administrative documents are wrapped up.
[1:58:35] So we wanted to keep the project moving.
[1:58:38] You have Abby's very detailed report in your packet,
[1:58:42] which walks through the artwork.
[1:58:43] Its symbolism, the site, community feedback,
[1:58:46] and the evolution of the design.
[1:58:48] So if you're looking for the artistic interpretation,
[1:58:50] I will direct you there because I'm
[1:58:51] decidedly not the artist in the room.
[1:58:54] The report does a wonderful job explaining the many Needham
[1:58:56] references incorporated into the final design,
[1:58:58] which I think John has larger versions for you,
[1:59:03] and the ways that the design evolved in response
[1:59:05] to the tremendous community feedback.
[1:59:07] What I do wanna emphasize tonight is the process,
[1:59:09] because I think that it is an
[1:59:11] important part of this project.
[1:59:12] It was new territory for the NCAC.
[1:59:14] It's their first public private partnership in public art
[1:59:17] with the town and the Grossman company sharing both the
[1:59:20] investment and the project and
[1:59:21] the participation in the process.
[1:59:23] So that meant the NCAC was trying
[1:59:25] to apply a traditional municipal call for artists framework
[1:59:27] to something that frankly wasn't a
[1:59:29] traditional municipal art project.
[1:59:31] So there were challenges along the way.
[1:59:32] After the initial call for artists
[1:59:34] and first round of public input, it became clear
[1:59:37] that the process needed to evolve.
[1:59:39] So rather than simply pushing forward the NCAC sought
[1:59:42] guidance from the town and from the Massachusetts Cultural
[1:59:44] Council, and they pivoted, the process was reopened.
[1:59:47] All three original finalists, artists were compensated
[1:59:50] for the additional work in a second round of design,
[1:59:52] development and public input was undertaken.
[1:59:56] I think that it's worth emphasizing
[1:59:57] that when the original process didn't quite fit the
[1:59:59] realities of this new partnership, the council adjusted,
[2:00:02] they worked hard to ensure the artists
[2:00:04] were treated equitably.
[2:00:05] The property owner had an
[2:00:07] appropriate voice as a true partner.
[2:00:09] And importantly that the community's voice was heard
[2:00:10] and reflected in the ultimate design, it went
[2:00:12] through several iterations.
[2:00:14] The second survey alone generated more than 50 pages
[2:00:16] of written public feedback.
[2:00:19] The result before you tonight is really the product
[2:00:21] of that iterative process.
[2:00:22] The NCAC sees this as a pilot
[2:00:24] and hopefully a starting point.
[2:00:26] They learned a tremendous amount about how
[2:00:27] to navigate a public private partnership like this.
[2:00:30] And they hope those lessons can provide a framework
[2:00:32] for similar projects in the future as budgets
[2:00:34] and opportunities allow.
[2:00:36] And with that, I'm happy to answer the questions
[2:00:37] that are within my non-artist lane.
[2:00:43] All right, well, colleagues who,
[2:00:45] Who owns that building again?
[2:00:46] Grossman Companies. And so
[2:00:49] what if they sell it tomorrow?
[2:00:52] Is there anything in it that says you have
[2:00:54] to keep the mural for a while or anything?
[2:00:56] There is not in the agreement between the three parties.
[2:00:58] No.
[2:01:01] That's a bummer. I think that's
[2:01:03] The same for other murals in town too, right?
[2:01:05] Well, they're on public property.
[2:01:07] No, if they're on private property, right? They're private.
[2:01:09] Yeah.
[2:01:11] So that would be like the side of the
[2:01:13] Crest, The side of the building with the alley,
[2:01:17] the Chapel Street there.
[2:01:18] Yes. Thank you. Yeah.
[2:01:22] Kathy, any comments? I, I think it's cool.
[2:01:27] I'm excited that it's getting done.
[2:01:31] Great, Josh. I think it's great. Yeah. Kevin,
[2:01:35] You know, it's interesting reading
[2:01:38] The stuff.
[2:01:39] I understand the Grossman company didn't want a colorful
[2:01:43] or more matic,
[2:01:45] and this is kind of interesting to see the two,
[2:01:47] someone tried to marry them together and it kind of works.
[2:01:52] I get that they didn't want the brick
[2:01:53] and it creates a weird optical effect,
[2:01:58] but it, the color punches are kind of like,
[2:02:01] this is what you can do with color.
[2:02:03] And the monochromatic is of an interesting effect too. So,
[2:02:06] And the orange is from like their logo color too,
[2:02:09] so it makes it all work nicely. Yeah, that's
[2:02:11] Pretty good.
[2:02:12] All right. So it's is an interesting solution.
[2:02:17] Well, I, I guess I'd just like to say thank you
[2:02:20] to all of the folks involved.
[2:02:22] I, I, you and you in your roles with the committee.
[2:02:26] The committee obviously, and the artists.
[2:02:30] But I, I guess I want to just
[2:02:34] especially say thank you to the property owner.
[2:02:37] I think it's, it's really, it's really fantastic.
[2:02:40] I have, I feel a great deal of appreciation
[2:02:42] to our private property owners who acknowledge
[2:02:45] and embrace their role in bringing art into our public
[2:02:49] spaces and acknowledging that their property as part
[2:02:53] of the town's public space.
[2:02:57] So their support of the arts is part of what makes
[2:03:02] this town and towns like it.
[2:03:04] Awesome. So I just wanna acknowledge that without the side
[2:03:09] of the building, we wouldn't be able to do this.
[2:03:11] So thank you to everyone involved.
[2:03:14] Thank you. If I could, looks great.
[2:03:16] I just add one thing too. It's great that it's right next to
[2:03:17] that math place because there's so many kids
[2:03:19] that are gonna be going, you know, you'll drive
[2:03:22] by in your car and you see, but they're gonna
[2:03:24] be walking, they're gonna be there.
[2:03:25] It's great that it's right there for, and they're
[2:03:26] Gonna have a little scavenger hunt type thing
[2:03:29] that they can find the different images in
[2:03:30] The, that's awesome.
[2:03:32] Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Yay. Thank you. Great project.
[2:03:36] Thank you.
[2:03:42] Alright, so next up we're gonna joined
[2:03:46] by Amy Helson, our director of communications
[2:03:49] and community engagement
[2:03:50] to talk about a whole bunch of stuff.
[2:03:53] So fill us in. Hi, nice to see you. Nice
[2:03:58] To be here.
[2:03:59] Thank you for having me.
[2:04:01] Okay, so we are gonna start out talking about
[2:04:07] the national community survey.
[2:04:09] May, are you running the slide deck? I am. Okay, thank you.
[2:04:15] So the National Community Survey,
[2:04:18] it's basically a report about the livability of Needham.
[2:04:22] So we've done this every two years since 2008,
[2:04:26] with the exception of 2020
[2:04:28] because of the pandemic we skipped that year.
[2:04:33] So a livable community is basically a place
[2:04:35] that's not just simply habitable, but it's desirable.
[2:04:39] It's a place where you, where you wanna live.
[2:04:43] And, and so the questions
[2:04:47] that were in the National Community Survey,
[2:04:50] this has really been perfected.
[2:04:52] They've been doing this for so long,
[2:04:54] and there are benchmarks.
[2:04:56] So Needham is compared to 400 other communities nationwide
[2:05:01] that also participate in the National Community Survey.
[2:05:05] In addition, there are local benchmarks.
[2:05:08] There are six Massachusetts communities that have also
[2:05:14] done the NCS.
[2:05:15] And so as we walk through the results,
[2:05:18] and it's a pretty dense report.
[2:05:20] I've already uploaded it to the town's website.
[2:05:23] So if you go under our government
[2:05:25] and under publications reports, it's already there.
[2:05:28] So you can walk through
[2:05:30] and I'm just gonna touch the highlights because
[2:05:32] otherwise I'd be here for two hours
[2:05:34] and I know you have a long agenda.
[2:05:37] So, so without further ado, we'll sort of walk through
[2:05:42] the, the key pieces of this.
[2:05:44] So the study method, so 3000 Needham residents were invited
[2:05:48] to participate and they are randomly chosen.
[2:05:50] And so people received a postcard in the mail, inviting them
[2:05:54] to participate, and they had a special URL
[2:05:57] that they logged on to.
[2:05:59] So that was open so that those were targeted for two weeks.
[2:06:03] And then after two weeks, the rest
[2:06:05] of the community was invited to participate.
[2:06:08] Out of the 3000 residents, 562 responded to the survey,
[2:06:14] and there's a margin of error of 4.1%,
[2:06:17] and the response rate was about 20%.
[2:06:19] So it's a little bit lower than it was in 2024.
[2:06:22] And then it's also important to note
[2:06:23] that the survey results were weighted.
[2:06:25] So the demographic profile is more indicative of Needham.
[2:06:29] So what that means is, if we got a glut of responses
[2:06:34] from a certain age population,
[2:06:36] what they would do is they take the demographics of Needham
[2:06:38] and sort of, you know, adjust them so
[2:06:41] that it's more representative of the demographics in town.
[2:06:46] As I already mentioned, 400 communities
[2:06:49] and six Massachusetts communities.
[2:06:51] So let's jump right into the results.
[2:06:53] So the overall highlights, good news is
[2:06:58] 97% of those responded say,
[2:07:03] Needham is excellent
[2:07:04] or good place to live, 93% rate,
[2:07:07] the overall quality is excellent
[2:07:09] or good, 81% rate, the quality
[2:07:12] of town services provided is excellent or good.
[2:07:14] And we'll get into how that compares
[2:07:16] to previous years in the next couple of slides.
[2:07:19] But there's a few things that jump out.
[2:07:22] At first, safety, the majority of residents perceive Needham
[2:07:25] as a very safe place to live.
[2:07:28] And not to jump too far ahead and,
[2:07:32] and sort of take away the, the excitement announcement,
[2:07:36] exciting announcement is that the storm water management,
[2:07:39] all of that hard work
[2:07:40] that you all put into storm water management,
[2:07:43] 12% increase in satisfaction in storm water management.
[2:07:46] So, yay.
[2:07:49] And I'm also excited to share that with public engagement,
[2:07:53] there was an increase from 2024 in people attending
[2:07:57] or watching public meetings,
[2:07:59] contacting elected officials or the town.
[2:08:02] So overall, from those four categories,
[2:08:04] there was a 23% increase in people's engagement
[2:08:08] with the town, which I think is awesome.
[2:08:11] You know, the fact that folks know how to reach out
[2:08:14] to the town
[2:08:15] or to elected officials, how to share their opinions
[2:08:19] and make their voices heard is really tremendous.
[2:08:24] So inclusivity continues to be both a strength
[2:08:26] and an opportunity for continued growth.
[2:08:28] Housing affordability continues to be a concern.
[2:08:32] And governance confidence in government, local
[2:08:34] and federal has declined.
[2:08:35] But this is a national trend.
[2:08:37] So it's not specific to Needham,
[2:08:40] but it's certainly something we
[2:08:41] of course wanna keep an eye on.
[2:08:43] Okay, so we're gonna go to the next slide.
[2:08:46] I'm just gonna highlight a few of these things here.
[2:08:49] Under quality of life, as we discussed, as a place to live,
[2:08:52] overall quality of life, those ranked very high.
[2:08:56] So what these numbers mean is when you is the percent
[2:08:59] positive is that 97% of the respondents said
[2:09:04] that Needham was an Exeter a good place to live.
[2:09:06] But what the national percentile means is that
[2:09:09] we ranked higher than 92%
[2:09:14] of the 400 communities.
[2:09:16] Okay? So that means that we're on the top 8%,
[2:09:18] which is pretty tremendous.
[2:09:21] And then you'll see the, the changes from 2024,
[2:09:26] because even though it's interesting to compare ourselves
[2:09:30] to these 400 other communities, what we're really wanting
[2:09:32] to do is compare ourselves to two years ago to see,
[2:09:35] you know, how are we measuring up to
[2:09:37] what we did back in 2024?
[2:09:40] So versus the local benchmark, you can also see
[2:09:43] how our results were.
[2:09:44] And all of these results are, are similar
[2:09:47] to the local benchmark, but higher in areas of overall image
[2:09:52] or reputation is in its quality of life.
[2:09:55] Next slide, please. Okay.
[2:09:58] Public safety need
[2:10:01] and ranked much higher than the national benchmark.
[2:10:04] So we ranked higher than 98% of the communities,
[2:10:08] which is pretty terrific.
[2:10:11] And also, versus the local benchmark,
[2:10:13] we also ranked higher crime prevention.
[2:10:18] Also much higher in that,
[2:10:21] that actually increased 4% from just two years ago.
[2:10:25] So all of the great work
[2:10:26] that the Needham Police Department is doing
[2:10:28] is certainly being noticed.
[2:10:31] And then fire prevention
[2:10:32] and education is also higher than it was a couple
[2:10:35] of years ago, as well as emergency preparedness.
[2:10:39] So that's pretty, pretty interesting to note.
[2:10:44] Okay, we're gonna go to the next one.
[2:10:45] For governance, I was particularly excited about
[2:10:49] public information services.
[2:10:51] The change from 2024 was an increase of 7%.
[2:10:56] And so we're also higher the national benchmark similar
[2:10:59] to local, but
[2:11:01] that's certainly trending in the right direction.
[2:11:03] So that was great to see overall quality services
[2:11:07] by the town, that did go down a little bit,
[2:11:11] 4% lower than it was in 2024.
[2:11:14] The overall direction Needham is taking
[2:11:17] was also lower than it was in 2024 by 9%.
[2:11:22] And generally acting in the best interest of the community
[2:11:25] also decreased by 10%.
[2:11:30] Jumping down to towards the bottom, contacting the town
[2:11:34] for help or information, again in an increase of 8%,
[2:11:38] which is, which is really nice to see. Can I, yeah,
[2:11:42] Does that mean that the, whether the respondent had
[2:11:45] ever contacted the town,
[2:11:47] It didn't ask if it was the first time.
[2:11:49] It just means did you contact the town?
[2:11:51] You know, have you contacted the town
[2:11:53] to get more information or ask questions?
[2:11:55] Okay, so that was an increase
[2:11:58] of 8% from 2024.
[2:12:01] And then the overall quality
[2:12:02] of services from the federal government,
[2:12:04] you can see a huge drop.
[2:12:07] It, it's 27% in 2026,
[2:12:11] and it's, you know, that's, that's trending nationally.
[2:12:14] So again, while we wanna, I think keep an eye on, you know,
[2:12:19] the results here, the acting in the best in sort the
[2:12:21] community and the, and the, you know,
[2:12:26] how folks feel about local government, that's, that's also
[2:12:30] a nationwide trend.
[2:12:32] So something to keep an eye on,
[2:12:35] but just so that you know, it's in context that that
[2:12:39] compared to other communities,
[2:12:40] they're experiencing the same, that's a
[2:12:41] 30% drop on federal government,
[2:12:44] Correct?
[2:12:46] Yes. All right. So we're gonna jump to the economy.
[2:12:50] The overall economic health of Needham,
[2:12:54] it's higher than the national benchmark.
[2:12:56] It did change a little bit from 2024,
[2:12:58] but also versus the local benchmark, it's, it's higher.
[2:13:03] Needham is a place to work that increased by 6%
[2:13:08] and is is higher than the national national benchmark.
[2:13:13] Similar to local cost of living,
[2:13:17] you know, that continues.
[2:13:18] That was, you know, the area,
[2:13:20] the concern about affordability of, of Needham, it continues
[2:13:23] to resonate in all of the surveys
[2:13:27] that we've done in recent years.
[2:13:30] And then health and wellness continues
[2:13:32] to rank very high versus, you know,
[2:13:34] in the national benchmark, very high scores on those.
[2:13:39] Next slide please. Under mobility,
[2:13:45] I just focused on a handful.
[2:13:47] As I mentioned, this survey is very dense
[2:13:50] and you can see every single one of the questions
[2:13:52] that was asked in this survey on the report that is uploaded
[2:13:56] to the town's website.
[2:13:59] Interestingly, where we compare to local,
[2:14:03] the other six local communities, the ease of parking, ease
[2:14:06] of travel by bicycle and walking,
[2:14:08] all ranked higher than the six communities in Massachusetts.
[2:14:14] Stormwater management, again, 12% increase.
[2:14:19] Kevin is Josh obviously very excited about
[2:14:22] that, which he should be.
[2:14:23] That's, that's terrific. And
[2:14:26] That's perception.
[2:14:27] I mean, like in reality, we, we passed a bylaw,
[2:14:30] but like the actual act
[2:14:33] of improving storm water comes a little later.
[2:14:37] But they know you're working on it.
[2:14:38] They know we're working on it. Exactly. Yeah.
[2:14:42] The other thing, the overall quality
[2:14:44] of utility infrastructure ranks higher
[2:14:49] than the national benchmark as well.
[2:14:51] And our drinking water ranked higher than the other six
[2:14:54] local communities.
[2:14:55] So next slide please.
[2:14:59] So we go to education, arts and culture.
[2:15:04] Not surprisingly, this is trended this way
[2:15:07] for the last several years.
[2:15:10] In fact, if I went back to 2008, I'm,
[2:15:13] I'm sure it would probably show very similar results.
[2:15:16] But the quality of K to 12 education
[2:15:19] is much higher than the national benchmark
[2:15:22] and higher than the six other Massachusetts communities,
[2:15:28] community support for the arts,
[2:15:30] it's also 68%.
[2:15:34] So we didn't have a change from two years ago.
[2:15:39] Public library services, again, 97%,
[2:15:43] which is terrific.
[2:15:46] Everybody loves the library
[2:15:48] versus the national benchmark is also higher.
[2:15:53] Next slide please. Okay. So community connection.
[2:15:57] People generally feel a very good, you know,
[2:16:00] very close sense of community.
[2:16:02] Needham is a place to raise children. 95%.
[2:16:06] That's pretty extraordinary.
[2:16:09] You know, I would say a,
[2:16:10] a change in 2% really isn't significant.
[2:16:13] So it's not anything to I think be concerned about.
[2:16:18] Neighbor, I loved this one.
[2:16:20] The neighborliness of residents in Needham
[2:16:23] higher than the national benchmark.
[2:16:25] And it's, it's trended very similar
[2:16:29] numbers in the last several surveys.
[2:16:33] And then opportunities to participate in community matters
[2:16:36] also higher than,
[2:16:40] than the national benchmark.
[2:16:43] Openness and acceptance of community towards people
[2:16:45] of diverse backgrounds is also,
[2:16:51] it, it that increased as well.
[2:16:53] 7%. And then this also, this, this last one here got me,
[2:16:58] you know, very excited that residents campaigned to advocate
[2:17:01] for a local issue cause or candidate that
[2:17:03] that increased by 9%.
[2:17:05] So I think, you know, we're,
[2:17:08] we're seeing it trending in the right direction
[2:17:09] that people are feeling informed
[2:17:12] and are feeling that they have an opportunity
[2:17:15] to be involved.
[2:17:17] Okay. Custom questions.
[2:17:21] So the national community survey allows us
[2:17:23] to ask custom questions
[2:17:26] before custom questions at the end of the survey.
[2:17:30] So there's, because they're custom to us,
[2:17:33] we can't compare them to any other community.
[2:17:37] But that was interesting that the town's website actually
[2:17:42] is the largest source of information for folks
[2:17:44] to find out about what's going on
[2:17:46] with the newsletter coming in behind it at just under 50%.
[2:17:50] And then the, the, the alerts, the alert need, you know,
[2:17:54] that's the sort of the reverse 9 1 1 and the notify me texts
[2:17:58] and emails where folks can go to the website to sign up
[2:18:01] for notifications on anything from a public meeting to,
[2:18:07] you know, the, the water restrictions
[2:18:09] or if their building is closed because of a snowstorm.
[2:18:12] Those types of things.
[2:18:13] So can gonna continue to push that
[2:18:16] because I think those are really effective ways
[2:18:18] to continue to communicate with folks.
[2:18:20] I feel like this may be showing the bias
[2:18:22] of the sample a little bit
[2:18:24] because, so I mean,
[2:18:26] all the percentages add up to more than a hundred.
[2:18:28] So, so people are using more than one system in town.
[2:18:30] Correct. And I wonder if that that's
[2:18:32] how they learned about the survey to get involved.
[2:18:37] I, I, I think sampling people
[2:18:40] who didn't, I mean, this is hard.
[2:18:41] People who didn't take the survey,
[2:18:42] I think necessarily are probably less
[2:18:45] plugged into the news channels
[2:18:47] and so didn't know
[2:18:48] to take the survey in the first place. It was mailed in your house
[2:18:51] Though.
[2:18:52] Well, yeah, 3000. The, so
[2:18:53] what you're looking at actually are the, the,
[2:18:56] these results are the, from the 3000 postcards Okay.
[2:18:59] That were mailed. Okay.
[2:19:01] So, okay, that's good then. Thank you.
[2:19:04] And then the barriers the residents currently perceive
[2:19:06] to living in Needham age being, you know,
[2:19:11] the, the top one at only 31%
[2:19:15] and you can see the rest there.
[2:19:18] So that, that's a lot of information to share.
[2:19:22] Again, i, I picked sort of the highlights
[2:19:24] because there is a lot of data.
[2:19:29] Does anybody have any questions?
[2:19:30] Yes. Actually, just a comment.
[2:19:31] First of all, thank you very much.
[2:19:32] Yes, this is great about the stormwater
[2:19:37] real credit goes to DPW.
[2:19:40] They've done so many projects to work on this
[2:19:42] and address issues project by project
[2:19:45] and talk to neighborhoods.
[2:19:47] So they, they're the ones who push those numbers up.
[2:19:51] Good for that. Agreed.
[2:19:52] Great. Anything else?
[2:19:56] Anyone helpful?
[2:19:58] You're hanging out. We have more stuff to cover.
[2:20:00] Yes, we do, we do. Done, I'm not done.
[2:20:04] I I have a question. Sure. For a comment.
[2:20:08] I guess one of the worst
[2:20:11] marks on here actually I think directly reflects on the
[2:20:13] select board, which is the governance,
[2:20:16] the overall direction that Needham is taking.
[2:20:19] And generally even worse than that, I guess in my mind,
[2:20:22] the generally acting in the best interest of the community
[2:20:25] that we lost ground
[2:20:27] and that our numbers are lower here than in other places.
[2:20:31] Do we have any ideas?
[2:20:33] I I, were there,
[2:20:35] do people write anything or just check a box?
[2:20:37] Do we have any ideas what this is about? So
[2:20:40] There is no open response
[2:20:44] ability in, in this particular survey.
[2:20:47] So it, it was basically multiple choice.
[2:20:50] So to expand upon that, all I can comment is that again,
[2:20:53] this is, this is trending not only locally, but nationally.
[2:20:58] There's a decline in trust in government across the board.
[2:21:03] I think we see that Every, I guess putting the national
[2:21:06] aside for a moment, I mean if we look at the six
[2:21:10] peer communities in Massachusetts,
[2:21:12] did they go down on these measures?
[2:21:16] They did. They're, they rank similar
[2:21:20] to, to where we did.
[2:21:25] But were they lower last survey as well
[2:21:28] That I can look into?
[2:21:30] I can't, I don't have that date in front of me,
[2:21:32] but I can, I can check on that for you.
[2:21:34] Thank you.
[2:21:39] Anything else, Kathy? No, that was it.
[2:21:43] Okay. Okay, Moving along.
[2:21:49] So as everybody knows, the New Town Seal was adopted
[2:21:51] by town, meaning in May of 2026
[2:21:56] and the New Town Seal is being rolled out.
[2:22:01] Town manager and I met with the town clerk to
[2:22:07] discuss and review what constitutes an official document
[2:22:11] because the Town seal should only be used on
[2:22:14] official town documents, whereas the New Town logo is going
[2:22:18] to be used on other things, you know, like vehicles
[2:22:21] and trash cans and clothing, that sort of thing.
[2:22:25] So with the New Town Seal, one of the things
[2:22:30] that does go on is our Town flag.
[2:22:33] And the Town flag, as you may all know, is actually hung,
[2:22:37] there's 351 flags from each municipality in
[2:22:41] the Hall of Flags at the
[2:22:43] Massachusetts State House in Boston.
[2:22:46] And so we are going to need to replace the flag,
[2:22:50] which I actually have here to show you,
[2:22:53] but there's two different versions of it.
[2:22:55] And so Katie
[2:22:56] and I thought it would be a nice exercise to go through
[2:23:01] to show you what the flags look like,
[2:23:03] and then you can decide which one.
[2:23:05] But I'm in touch with Representative Taki's office to see
[2:23:09] how we might be able to schedule some type
[2:23:12] of ceremonial flag raising of sorts to replace,
[2:23:16] because, you know, in, in our lifetime, this will
[2:23:19] probably be the only time the flag is replaced.
[2:23:26] So, So there are two different versions.
[2:23:30] There is the version on a white background.
[2:23:35] This is a completely white version.
[2:23:42] So that's What that looks like.
[2:23:46] Front big screen TV you can talk to.
[2:23:50] Okay. And then Her
[2:23:56] Selectman themes request, we put it on
[2:24:02] a Navy background
[2:24:07] and I'll add that, you know, Kevin chaired the town branding
[2:24:12] and Town Needham branding and Town Seal committee,
[2:24:16] and it was many, many months worth of
[2:24:20] conversations about the Town Seal
[2:24:23] to, to bring us to this point.
[2:24:25] And so now we have two options here for the flag
[2:24:28] to be raised at the State House.
[2:24:32] Kevin, why did you choose Blue?
[2:24:36] I think there's a joke somewhere that a lot
[2:24:38] of them just do the bed sheet, like, yeah, so many flags.
[2:24:40] There's, oh, it's just another bed sheet
[2:24:42] with a seal on it. So it's like, let's,
[2:24:44] Let's try Blue.
[2:24:46] IIII go to haul the flags every year for an event
[2:24:49] and it's very hard when there's 351 flags up there
[2:24:53] to find the flag because they're all white.
[2:24:55] Yes. So it would be helpful, I think, to be a blue.
[2:25:00] I mean, they have a little interactive thing
[2:25:01] where you could press button and they say, look at,
[2:25:03] you know, the third row up, the 12 flag down.
[2:25:05] But even with that, when there so many white
[2:25:08] that I would, I'm down with blue.
[2:25:10] That one blue. All right. Yeah. Yeah.
[2:25:14] I think blue's got my vote too.
[2:25:15] It seems like it's got more gravitas.
[2:25:17] I don't, you can kind of see through the white a little bit.
[2:25:20] It, yeah, I, I'm not, I don't think it,
[2:25:24] this is also just more our colors blue and yellow.
[2:25:27] Gold. Gold, yeah. You know, that's good. You agree? Yeah.
[2:25:31] Done all well, thanks. Just fix a tight Thank you, Jackie.
[2:25:35] Kathy? Kathy, do you have a, oh, we lost Kathy.
[2:25:38] No bed sheet. No bed sheet. All thank you. All right.
[2:25:42] No one will also go in Powell Hall, right? Yes,
[2:25:46] Correct.
[2:25:47] Yes. Excellent. Okay.
[2:25:52] All right, so moving right along
[2:25:53] and I will try to be brief about this.
[2:25:56] I know you have lots still on your agenda.
[2:25:59] Just wanted to walk through some communication highlights
[2:26:01] over the last year.
[2:26:02] I was here just one year ago giving you an update.
[2:26:06] So as we just talked about, worked with a need and branding
[2:26:08] and Town Seal committee developed the new
[2:26:10] town branding of the Town Seal.
[2:26:12] The logo had was rolled out about a year and a half ago.
[2:26:16] And so everything that needed to have the logo on it is,
[2:26:20] is already does, including all of the big belly trash cans
[2:26:24] around town, the vehicles, et cetera.
[2:26:29] So the other highlights increased outreach
[2:26:32] to stakeholders of the last year.
[2:26:33] Social media followers grew by 8%.
[2:26:36] It's so fascinating to me to, to watch, to see
[2:26:40] what gets people excited.
[2:26:42] One of the, you know, every,
[2:26:44] anytime we have anything about veterans
[2:26:45] or there's any kind of ceremony
[2:26:47] that gets a lot of engagement.
[2:26:49] But then last summer we actually had our new conservation
[2:26:51] specialist saved a snapping turtle in
[2:26:56] the reservoir along with the assistant town engineer.
[2:26:59] And that just blew up and it was shared a million times
[2:27:01] and people love sort of the heartwarming feel good stuff.
[2:27:04] So any opportunity I have to be able to share sort
[2:27:08] of the human side of,
[2:27:09] of local government, I, I try to do that.
[2:27:11] Our newsletter subscribers grew by 8%, which is also,
[2:27:16] which is also great, heading in the right direction.
[2:27:19] We still have the popup screen when you go to the website
[2:27:22] that asks you if you want to subscribe.
[2:27:25] If you're sick of seeing it, you could, you could hit close
[2:27:27] and do not show again.
[2:27:28] So it doesn't keep popping up.
[2:27:30] And then continuing to increase the number
[2:27:33] of social media posts
[2:27:34] and news flashes, poco surveys
[2:27:37] beyond the national community survey.
[2:27:40] We, I also worked to publish
[2:27:45] a few other surveys that, which
[2:27:46] we're gonna get into in a second.
[2:27:47] And then continuing to cultivate
[2:27:49] relationships with local media.
[2:27:50] So Needham is viewed as a valuable resource
[2:27:53] for local news outlets.
[2:27:55] So because we're fortunate to have, you know, NBC 10
[2:27:59] and also WCBB Channel five here locally,
[2:28:03] they often will call
[2:28:04] and if they, you know, it's, it's convenient for them
[2:28:06] to just come down, you know, Highland Avenue to
[2:28:09] find somebody to interview.
[2:28:11] So we often, I often get phone calls saying like, oh,
[2:28:15] you know, we need to local sha and Carig is always wonderful
[2:28:18] and, and in and accommodating requests for interviews,
[2:28:22] especially during storms.
[2:28:25] But they, they love to have the need and perspective
[2:28:29] and also, not just because we're convenient, but also
[2:28:32] because we're a respected source for information
[2:28:35] and, and expertise.
[2:28:36] So the public health department has been interviewed a lot.
[2:28:39] And even most recently I get a call
[2:28:42] during the first heat wave of the summer from
[2:28:47] the assignment editor at Channel five
[2:28:48] and said, can we do the weather broadcast
[2:28:51] from the Rosemary pool?
[2:28:52] And so I called Stacy Mulroy and she said, send 'em on down.
[2:28:55] So, you know, as long as we don't have,
[2:28:58] you know, children in the background.
[2:28:59] So they, they just wanted a nice background
[2:29:01] and they've also done the reservoir.
[2:29:03] So I like to be accommodating whenever possible,
[2:29:06] but that's a great opportunity to,
[2:29:08] to get Needham on the map.
[2:29:10] Alright, so jumping to communication tools, the website,
[2:29:13] we did a re I did a refresh last September,
[2:29:18] moved things around because I can see the Google analytics
[2:29:22] and I kind of nerd out sometimes
[2:29:24] and see what people are searching
[2:29:26] and what are the most frequently visited pages.
[2:29:29] The calendar section continues to be one of the tops.
[2:29:33] So having it now in the top right hand corner allows people
[2:29:35] to get the information right away that they're seeking.
[2:29:39] So new photos, fresh graphics, we have, you know,
[2:29:42] the hot topic buttons at the bottom
[2:29:43] that change occasionally depending on, you know,
[2:29:46] what is considered a hot topic at the time.
[2:29:49] And then the how do I, you know,
[2:29:53] letting folks find the information
[2:29:55] quickly that they're seeking.
[2:29:57] Like, how do I get an RTS sticker?
[2:29:59] How do I register to vote?
[2:30:00] How do I get a license for my dog? That sort of thing.
[2:30:04] How do I sign up for the Memorial Park line board?
[2:30:10] Okay, next slide please.
[2:30:14] Okay, so newsflash and notify me.
[2:30:17] So newsflash, I can post
[2:30:21] newsworthy items
[2:30:22] that we wanna get people's attention right when they go
[2:30:24] to the website and, and folks can sign up for notifications
[2:30:28] for, for newsflash, in fact.
[2:30:30] So let me jump to the next thing.
[2:30:32] Notify me if you go to the,
[2:30:33] if it's just needham ma.gov/notify me, you can sign up for,
[2:30:37] as I mentioned earlier, you know, public meeting notices,
[2:30:40] water restriction alerts, that sort of thing.
[2:30:42] But when I do news flashes to let folks know, for example,
[2:30:45] yesterday that the
[2:30:47] water restrictions were downgraded to level one.
[2:30:51] I did that as a news flash and it it went out.
[2:30:55] Okay, next slide please.
[2:30:58] The newsletter continues to be very popular
[2:31:03] and I, you know, check every week to see
[2:31:05] what the open rate is
[2:31:06] and I can tell whether or not people open it.
[2:31:08] So if you don't open up your newsletter, I can actually
[2:31:11] tell, I don't, I don't spy that closely.
[2:31:15] But it, the analytics actually are, are pretty fascinating.
[2:31:18] And I posted also to social media
[2:31:20] and we get a lot of readers through,
[2:31:22] through the posts of social media as well.
[2:31:25] So we're up to about 8,000 subscribers now, which is,
[2:31:29] which is again really awesome.
[2:31:31] It's heading in the right direction. Okay.
[2:31:35] Social media, we're up to about 5,700 followers.
[2:31:40] Instagram about 3000.
[2:31:42] Anybody who likes anything on our page, I immediately check,
[2:31:46] it's a slight obsession of mine
[2:31:48] to see if they actually already follow our page.
[2:31:49] And if they don't, I immediately invite them.
[2:31:51] So I can also see how people like our page
[2:31:55] because they saw one of our reels or they saw a post
[2:31:59] and then I can see actually how they came to us.
[2:32:01] So that's kind of fascinating.
[2:32:04] And in Blue Sky and Threads I've been asked about
[2:32:06] that They don't currently have the ability
[2:32:09] to be backed up on our social media archive software.
[2:32:13] That is actually through Civic Plus.
[2:32:14] I've asked when they're gonna do that
[2:32:16] and I, there's no definitive date, so we don't use those
[2:32:20] as platforms to post to because they cannot be backed up.
[2:32:23] And so if there was ever, you know,
[2:32:24] a FOIA request specific to that.
[2:32:27] So that's why we don't use it. But we have handles saved.
[2:32:30] So should, should they be integrated into social media
[2:32:34] archive, we can start using those as well and test.
[2:32:37] Okay. Poco surveys. Next slide please.
[2:32:42] We just talked about National Community survey,
[2:32:45] but we also, I also did surveys
[2:32:47] through large house envisioned center.
[2:32:50] That was a huge, that was about
[2:32:52] 2,800 responses to that survey.
[2:32:56] The mural design for Highland Ave that John
[2:33:00] and Liz were just talking about and the street design guide.
[2:33:03] So we had about 4,200 responses through the survey,
[2:33:07] through surveys this year.
[2:33:10] Next slide please. In community engagement, I continue
[2:33:14] to try to connect with local nonprofits.
[2:33:18] They reach out to me all the time asking me
[2:33:20] to include their information on our community calendar,
[2:33:23] the website, and also in the newsletter.
[2:33:25] I love to go out
[2:33:27] and visit with the residents whenever possible.
[2:33:30] I've now been to Wingate a couple of times
[2:33:34] and have spoken to residents there just to talk
[2:33:37] to them about the town, how to volunteer opportunities
[2:33:40] or how to stay informed and engaged.
[2:33:41] And they, they were a really, you know, excited group
[2:33:45] of folks and they had some really great questions.
[2:33:48] So very interested in, in, you know, projects and
[2:33:53] because, you know, the,
[2:33:54] the former Muzzy site is right across the street from them.
[2:33:57] They wanna know what's going on,
[2:33:58] but they, they have a lot of questions
[2:34:00] and they're very well informed.
[2:34:02] So that's been, it's been really rewarding.
[2:34:04] So hope to do more of that in the year ahead.
[2:34:08] So other things in process, I am working on a template
[2:34:12] for a town wide mailing
[2:34:13] that we are talking about doing twice a year in the
[2:34:17] fall and in the spring.
[2:34:19] And so it would be information that would be a preview
[2:34:23] for folks On major initiatives, how
[2:34:28] to stay informed, how to get involved,
[2:34:30] how to provide their feedback.
[2:34:32] And also if there is public, you know,
[2:34:34] public engagement sessions coming up, it's really important
[2:34:38] to, you know, try to get that out.
[2:34:39] And so speaking of community engagement,
[2:34:41] when we do have public engagement sessions,
[2:34:43] public information sessions, it's not just the usual,
[2:34:46] you know, throw it up on the website
[2:34:48] or put the newsletter, it's sharing flyers, you know,
[2:34:51] going over to the Ham housing authority
[2:34:53] and sharing them there, bringing 'em over to the library
[2:34:55] to cath, trying to get people, you know, where they are
[2:34:58] and so they, they know what's going on.
[2:35:02] So that is it in a nutshell.
[2:35:07] I tried to be brief,
[2:35:08] but if anybody has any questions, I am glad to answer them.
[2:35:13] Thank you. This is quite a lot of activity. Yeah.
[2:35:19] Much appreciated and takes some time to digest,
[2:35:23] but much appreciated.
[2:35:24] Great. I look forward to looking at all
[2:35:26] of the information on the grape site. What,
[2:35:28] What communication challenges
[2:35:31] or hurdles do you look to overcome in the coming year?
[2:35:37] I often say I, I don't ever wanna hear people say,
[2:35:40] I had no idea that was going on.
[2:35:42] So that continues to be, you know, my, my biggest challenge.
[2:35:45] So I try to think through, you know, if you're,
[2:35:48] if you're not on social media, if you're not subscribed
[2:35:50] to the newsletter, you know,
[2:35:52] how are you gonna find out about what's going on?
[2:35:54] And we're fortunate to have, you know,
[2:35:56] two local news outlets here in Needham that,
[2:35:59] that folks are very well informed of,
[2:36:01] but constantly sort of thinking outside of the box.
[2:36:03] So, you know, doing a lot of sort
[2:36:05] of the grassroots outreach, I think is, is effective.
[2:36:09] So connecting with nonprofits and,
[2:36:11] and building rapports with, with folks like that.
[2:36:13] And, and I think generally just providing sort
[2:36:18] of a, an opportunity for, for people to, to connect.
[2:36:23] I, I get responses all the time from the newsletter I've
[2:36:26] got, I've gotten suggestions on things, you know,
[2:36:28] to improve the newsletter and I appreciate the feedback.
[2:36:31] So I just, you know, I wish there were more hours in a day.
[2:36:34] I would love to be able to do more, more with video, more
[2:36:39] with, you know, feature stories.
[2:36:41] So
[2:36:42] Thank you.
[2:36:43] We'll get there. Thank you. Of course.
[2:36:46] I would just, you know, local government is a communications
[2:36:50] business and so thank you for doing it
[2:36:52] 'cause this is a big part of what we do.
[2:36:54] Great. Thank you.
[2:36:56] Thank you. Alright. Excellent. Terrific. Thanks very much.
[2:36:59] Thank you. I'm gonna propose a five minute recess
[2:37:04] or at least I'm going to take a short recess.
[2:37:07] So,
[2:37:14] so we're, we're resuming our meeting
[2:37:17] and we are here with our traffic regulation amendments
[2:37:21] with our director of DPWK SIG
[2:37:25] and Justin Cullen who is the chair of the
[2:37:29] traffic safety committee.
[2:37:30] Thank you. Traffic safety committee.
[2:37:32] I can remember which one all.
[2:37:34] So tell us all the things, maybe
[2:37:38] We'll start like an overview
[2:37:40] and then we can go into each one.
[2:37:41] Yes please. But these are all items that have been brought
[2:37:44] to the town through the Traffic Safety Committee.
[2:37:47] The Traffic Safety Committee has vetted
[2:37:49] through all these items, all the abutters have been notified
[2:37:52] and communicated with to see if there's any concerns
[2:37:54] about these regulations.
[2:37:56] And relatively speaking, they're sort
[2:37:58] of small incremental changes.
[2:38:00] The first one you have in front of you is this a change
[2:38:02] to a small portion of Grove Street
[2:38:05] where there is an island in the middle of the road
[2:38:07] and it is just delineating that the side of the road
[2:38:13] that would typically have outbound traffic will be one way
[2:38:16] and not two way traffic.
[2:38:18] Okay. There Been incidents,
[2:38:23] No specific incidents,
[2:38:24] but then it was brought to the attention
[2:38:26] of the TSC by Abutters.
[2:38:28] Yeah. So there it was anecdotally it wasn't,
[2:38:30] we didn't confirm through police
[2:38:32] or any sort of accident data,
[2:38:33] but it was anecdotally brought up to us
[2:38:35] with regards to that anecdote.
[2:38:36] It did lead to potentially
[2:38:39] increased conflict between vehicles.
[2:38:41] Kind Of. I see on the proposal
[2:38:44] that you gave us property one, you know
[2:38:45] where you're gonna place the one way signs
[2:38:48] and if you've spoken to that homeowner,
[2:38:50] that homeowner is who's on both sides of, he agreed
[2:38:52] because it almost looks like he's, he if he comes outta
[2:38:56] that driveway, I don't know whether the blockage,
[2:38:57] but it won't matter that much
[2:38:58] because he turned him right onto one way.
[2:39:00] So I don't think it'll matter that much,
[2:39:02] but I just don't know whether you've spoke the him
[2:39:04] They're aware and they're aware of the location of the,
[2:39:08] Just quick question on,
[2:39:13] on the other side of the island, is that two way
[2:39:16] or is it just, so it's, there are two ways to go on
[2:39:20] to Charles River Street, correct?
[2:39:22] Correct. Correct. Okay. Yes.
[2:39:25] I mean I'm not suggesting we do a project where you just
[2:39:29] combine the island with the other side
[2:39:32] because that costs money but this is a sign change. Right.
[2:39:34] I do know and obviously cares can disc it.
[2:39:37] I know there have been talks about future project
[2:39:39] that maybe would some sort of road improvement be done there
[2:39:42] to either eliminate that island or do something,
[2:39:45] but I think that's kind of like a blue sky Okay thing.
[2:39:47] But it had been touched as that could be some sort
[2:39:49] of geometric improvement in the future. Okay.
[2:39:52] Seems considerably lower cost.
[2:39:54] Yes. Right.
[2:39:56] Yeah. Okay great.
[2:40:00] I definitely always feel like a
[2:40:04] dork when I come up to one of these intersections
[2:40:06] and realize that I could have taken the two lane
[2:40:09] but I took the one lane and now I have to go.
[2:40:11] But it's worth it to reduce potential conflicts
[2:40:15] between vehicles so people will learn their way
[2:40:18] around it. Quickly enough
[2:40:20] Madam Chair, I would move that the board vote to approve
[2:40:23] and sign the notice of traffic regulation permit number R 26
[2:40:26] dash oh eight dash 11 requiring that the rest,
[2:40:29] the West fork portion of Grove Street southbound
[2:40:32] of Charles River Street be designated as a one way street.
[2:40:34] Second.
[2:40:36] All right, so we'll take a vote. Kathy? Yes.
[2:40:41] Bill? Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin. Aye. And I vote yes as well.
[2:40:46] So excellent.
[2:40:47] That one is disposed of as they say next.
[2:40:52] The next one is at the intersection of Forest Street
[2:40:57] and Central Avenue and you'll see from the rendering
[2:41:00] that you have, it would be adding a no turn on ri,
[2:41:04] a red sign from central onto forest.
[2:41:07] This is a, a crosswalk that is heavily utilized I think
[2:41:13] oftentimes by families who are utilizing the farm next door.
[2:41:16] We have talked to Valante about the change
[2:41:18] and they are aware of it as well.
[2:41:22] Okay. Does, does this walkway have one
[2:41:24] of those lights light that light up or no,
[2:41:27] This is a fully signaled intersection
[2:41:30] but the issue is, is if somebody,
[2:41:32] in theory you have a red light you can pause
[2:41:35] and then you can go and take a right hand
[2:41:36] Turn.
[2:41:37] Like if it's flashing you're not gonna go.
[2:41:38] There's no indication when you're at a typical signaled
[2:41:41] intersection if it's for a pedestrian phase
[2:41:43] or if it's for the opposite lane of traffic.
[2:41:45] So there's no distinction.
[2:41:47] It's just a regular red light that you would have
[2:41:49] as if forest had a green light.
[2:41:51] I mean my own and I and I haven't done traffic study
[2:41:54] but I've seen Central Avenue in the afternoon
[2:41:56] how far backed up it gets
[2:41:57] and I don't know whether it's gonna back it up
[2:41:59] more because you can't take a right turn.
[2:42:00] It probably would be minimal. But
[2:42:03] I do know that our traffic engineering
[2:42:07] has taken a look at this and I know it did not send any
[2:42:10] concerns through our engineering division.
[2:42:14] Okay. I also know that
[2:42:16] because of the bump out at the curb, you have to,
[2:42:19] if you were to take a right, you have
[2:42:20] to go into the center of the
[2:42:22] Correct.
[2:42:23] That was one of the concerns of why we would do this change.
[2:42:26] Yes, you're
[2:42:30] Given its proximity to the farm
[2:42:32] and then I, I think the school kids,
[2:42:36] this is a school route so I mean I think this makes sense.
[2:42:39] I, I agree I would be worried about the backup
[2:42:42] but for pedestrian safety it strikes me as worth where the
[2:42:46] Trade off, if engineering did not bring
[2:42:48] that up then it wouldn't be a concern
[2:42:49] 'cause they would probably have brought it up.
[2:42:51] Usually when it comes to right turn on reds,
[2:42:53] it's not like a major right congestion reducer
[2:42:56] because you have to have the vehicle
[2:42:57] that's teed up at the intersection at
[2:43:00] that time wanting to take a Right.
[2:43:01] As soon as somebody wants to go straight, forget it,
[2:43:04] you no longer have that benefit.
[2:43:06] Right. Okay.
[2:43:09] So would anybody like to make a, a motion Madam
[2:43:11] Chair?
[2:43:12] I make a motion to the board vote to approve
[2:43:14] and sign the notice
[2:43:15] of traffic regulation permit number NTOR 26 dash
[2:43:20] zero seven dash 21 requiring
[2:43:22] that a no turn on red restriction be established
[2:43:25] for Central Avenue southbound at the intersection
[2:43:28] of Forest Street second.
[2:43:31] Okay. And we'll vote again. Kathy? Yes. Bill? Yes.
[2:43:36] Josh? Yes. Kevin Aye And I vote yes as well.
[2:43:41] Thank you. Okay. And then the last,
[2:43:46] The last one that we have is a parking restriction on
[2:43:48] Greendale Avenue towards Webster Street.
[2:43:51] The butters actually came to the TSC with a petition
[2:43:55] to request that one side
[2:43:57] of this section be limited for parking.
[2:44:00] The town evaluated which side would be the least impactful.
[2:44:02] And this side was indicated the temple has been made aware
[2:44:06] of this particular request
[2:44:08] and the, they've indicated that they're supportive of it.
[2:44:12] We do know that we've talked with them regarding sort
[2:44:16] of high holiday events or high function events when they
[2:44:18] often engage a police detail officer anyways.
[2:44:21] And that would be at the discretion of the detail officer
[2:44:23] how to manage that intersection during those events.
[2:44:26] Okay. I mean this isn't
[2:44:31] gonna reduce the number of cars, it's just gonna move them
[2:44:34] to park different places.
[2:44:35] I think the concern was people getting out
[2:44:36] of their driveways and then maneuvering, you know,
[2:44:39] between cars staggered on either side as opposed to Correct.
[2:44:43] Limiting the number of cars.
[2:44:46] Okay, so if they're all parked on one side then you
[2:44:51] have more space to go through.
[2:44:53] I know people yeah. Yeah people on my street all the time.
[2:44:56] People park on both sides of the street
[2:44:58] and then you're like trying to squeeze through,
[2:45:02] which is, can be challenging
[2:45:04] And I think from a, you know,
[2:45:05] an emergency vehicle access perspective, just like it was on
[2:45:09] across from Dio Georgia jacket.
[2:45:12] Yeah J yeah there was concern there of, you know,
[2:45:14] cars on both sides just as like, like it came in front
[2:45:16] of the, the select board here before this is kind of
[2:45:17] that same scenario where you have a very narrow road
[2:45:20] and you do have potentially a lot of cars that do park.
[2:45:23] So for both residents as well
[2:45:25] as the A Temple overflow. Okay.
[2:45:27] So that makes sense Madam Chair would move
[2:45:29] that the board vote to approve it silently notice
[2:45:31] of traffic regulation permit number R 26 dash eight dash 11
[2:45:35] requiring that parking be prohibited on the east side
[2:45:38] of Greendale lab between Webster Street and Davenport Road.
[2:45:41] Second. Thanks Bill. Thanks Kevin.
[2:45:44] Okay, any, any more discussion?
[2:45:47] I, I anticipate that this is going to lead to other,
[2:45:52] like there may be knock on effects that people,
[2:45:54] because people can't park here,
[2:45:55] they will park on other streets
[2:45:56] and people on those streets will come
[2:45:58] and ask for no parking signs and,
[2:46:03] And we'll monitor.
[2:46:04] 'cause that was actually, that was something
[2:46:05] that came up when I think the town probably 10 years ago
[2:46:08] started to do no parking
[2:46:10] around commuter rail stations in order to reduce the amount
[2:46:12] of cars that we parking during the day.
[2:46:14] And I don't think it really manifested too much.
[2:46:17] I think it was just like, you know,
[2:46:18] it's the other guy was saying change is sometimes
[2:46:20] hard, but I don't know.
[2:46:21] We'll, we'll carefully monitor that.
[2:46:23] But yes, that's something that I've always said at the,
[2:46:26] at the TSC for like the 10 years that I've been on it is,
[2:46:28] you know, we can't just put signs everywhere
[2:46:30] but this is, you know, something that made a good case
[2:46:33] and obviously with the temples, with the, an officer
[2:46:35] who would be able to at least allow
[2:46:37] that if in fact they needed overflow parking
[2:46:40] during the high holidays
[2:46:41] and to, to be able to manage that on,
[2:46:43] on those few days a year I think is appropriate
[2:46:46] And hopefully the temple can help to inform their,
[2:46:49] The congregation Yes. Their
[2:46:50] Congregation about the need to make sure
[2:46:53] that emergency vehicles can pass. So
[2:46:56] Yeah, I think the main concern that came
[2:46:57] to the committee was really on the regular work days
[2:47:01] and related to the childcare facility that's there.
[2:47:06] And so what I sort of heard was it's not parked, you know,
[2:47:10] on a regular basis on both sides of the road, it's
[2:47:13] that people aren't thoughtful about where they park
[2:47:15] so they don't stagger necessarily
[2:47:16] and you get these choke points.
[2:47:18] So by diverting everybody onto one side of the road,
[2:47:20] you're at least creating sort of more
[2:47:21] of an orderly system than what we currently have.
[2:47:24] Okay. All right.
[2:47:25] Well so we'll we'll try it
[2:47:27] and if there's issues we'll adjust.
[2:47:29] We'll figure Yep. Yeah. Okay. I think that makes sense.
[2:47:34] And we have a motion on the table and a second
[2:47:37] and so if there are no more discussions then we will go
[2:47:41] to a vote and we'll start with Kathy.
[2:47:44] Yes, bill? Yes, Josh? Yes. Kevin.
[2:47:47] Aye Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:47:52] All right, fantastic.
[2:47:55] Enjoy the rest of your evening. Thank
[2:47:57] You.
[2:47:59] Next we're gonna talk about Dedham Avenue intersection at
[2:48:01] South Street and improvements.
[2:48:04] Excellent. So I am here, Tyler is actually remote.
[2:48:07] He had a, a situation that required him to be at home,
[2:48:11] but we wanted to update you on the progress of a grant
[2:48:15] that the town has applied for the town applied for the
[2:48:19] masts local bottleneck grant.
[2:48:21] This is the second time we've applied for the grant.
[2:48:23] The first time we did was
[2:48:24] for the two intersections in the
[2:48:26] downtown on Great Plain Avenue.
[2:48:28] Just a little bit explaining how this grant works
[2:48:32] 'cause it's a little different than some of the ones
[2:48:33] where you're seeking specific funding.
[2:48:35] This is sort of a engineering grant with construction sort
[2:48:39] of as a secondary application.
[2:48:42] The primary grant is really to look at intersections
[2:48:44] that we have within the town that meet criteria
[2:48:46] as identified by the state
[2:48:48] where we feel like there might be congestion issues
[2:48:50] or bottlenecks currently.
[2:48:51] And then the state
[2:48:52] and get gauges their own engineering's process
[2:48:56] to help consult the town on what could be done
[2:48:58] to alleviate those congestion items.
[2:49:01] So sometimes that results in construction
[2:49:04] and sometimes it really results in limited work
[2:49:06] like we saw in the downtown.
[2:49:08] So when we enter into this process,
[2:49:09] we don't necessarily know what the outcome will be.
[2:49:13] So when the last round came up,
[2:49:16] Dedham Abbot South Street was on our list of intersections
[2:49:19] to be evaluated and
[2:49:20] because of its proximity to the highway met much
[2:49:23] of the criteria that was identified as part of this grant.
[2:49:26] We applied for the grant, received it,
[2:49:29] and are in the earlier phases of the design process
[2:49:33] after alternatives were rolled out for looking at
[2:49:36] that intersection, including things like rotaries
[2:49:39] or other treatments that could be used.
[2:49:41] And we wanted to present where we are
[2:49:43] and where we think this project will go as far
[2:49:46] as moving forward for funding for construction.
[2:49:49] So that I'll turn it over to Tyler.
[2:49:57] Good evening everybody. So this project,
[2:50:01] as Caris was explaining, is you don't need
[2:50:05] to have identified necessarily a solution
[2:50:09] before application.
[2:50:10] So the, the process is intended to
[2:50:16] address congestion issues at intersections,
[2:50:18] but it can also incorporate improvements for
[2:50:23] safety reasons, upgrading the technology
[2:50:27] of the signals as a way to enhance
[2:50:33] the performance of the intersection.
[2:50:35] So the main changes that are proposed as part
[2:50:39] of this project and so far we have a,
[2:50:45] it's it's, it's more, more like a 75% design,
[2:50:48] but essentially we have all
[2:50:50] of the surface level infrastructure is is designed
[2:50:54] traffic signal equipment improvements.
[2:50:58] A lot of the equipment at the intersection is, is quite old.
[2:51:01] You can see that it's more of the basic
[2:51:06] technology than some
[2:51:07] of the other signals that we have in town.
[2:51:10] It has only magnetic loop detection at the side streets.
[2:51:16] The side street approaches on, on South Street.
[2:51:20] The project would propose installing
[2:51:24] traffic camera detection in all direction that
[2:51:28] that has 360 degree view traffic in all directions
[2:51:33] and can actuate the signal based on inputs
[2:51:36] from all four directions.
[2:51:38] The other changes are the addition
[2:51:41] of a dedicated left turn lane coming out of town
[2:51:46] south eastbound on Dham Avenue.
[2:51:50] That is primarily
[2:51:52] because of the current condition where if there's cars
[2:51:56] that are, are queuing to go
[2:51:59] north up Dun Avenue into town from the other direction
[2:52:05] or they're turning left onto South Street, rather
[2:52:08] they queue up in the lane
[2:52:09] and that can block sight lines of oncoming traffic for those
[2:52:12] that are heading out of town.
[2:52:14] So when you're, when you're trying
[2:52:15] to make a left onto South Street, you kind of have
[2:52:18] to inch into the intersection so that you can see traffic
[2:52:22] around the, the line of cars waiting to turn left.
[2:52:25] So having a dedicated lane with a dedicated arrow signal
[2:52:30] would make that much safer.
[2:52:33] The other thing is that the South Street approach coming
[2:52:38] north eastbound across South Street to meet up
[2:52:43] with Dunham Avenue.
[2:52:45] Currently it is not striped as though it's two lanes,
[2:52:48] but it functionally is acting as if it is two lanes.
[2:52:51] And that's because of the dimensions are just short of
[2:52:57] allowing for two standard size lanes there.
[2:53:01] So this project would slightly adjust the dimensions, so
[2:53:05] to allow it to be striped as a dedicated turn lane for,
[2:53:10] for traffic turning right again heading out
[2:53:13] of town onto D Avenue from South Street.
[2:53:17] So this was, these recommendations were made
[2:53:20] after traffic data was collected by the consultant
[2:53:26] CHA that we're working with.
[2:53:29] So the, the, the changes were modeled through traffic,
[2:53:34] data, traffic projection software synchro
[2:53:38] to model the,
[2:53:40] how these changes would affect the intersection.
[2:53:43] The other thing that's important to mention is that the,
[2:53:46] the installation of pedestrian signals at this intersection.
[2:53:50] So there is a, a sidewalk at the very, the end of
[2:53:55] of Dham Avenue right in front of DPW
[2:53:58] that currently does not lead anywhere.
[2:54:01] This project would install
[2:54:05] a DA compliant ramps
[2:54:06] and pedestrian signals at that intersection
[2:54:10] to both make the existing pedestrian traffic safer.
[2:54:15] 'cause right now we have observed people
[2:54:18] crossing the intersection without any sort
[2:54:20] of signal just kind of dodging traffic,
[2:54:23] which is very unsafe.
[2:54:24] So it would allow for
[2:54:26] that exclusive phase when the button is pressed
[2:54:29] and enable us to explore future connection
[2:54:34] to Edgewater Drive neighborhood over the,
[2:54:37] the culvert that exists there.
[2:54:40] Those are the, the, the extent of the changes
[2:54:43] and how they, what is involved with this project.
[2:54:47] Currently we are in a phase where we are negotiating the
[2:54:53] utility pole relocations, which are kind of the, the thing
[2:54:57] that's gonna determine a lot of the project schedule.
[2:55:00] If we're not able to get those poles moved,
[2:55:01] then we're not gonna be able to fit all the equipment
[2:55:03] in its intended location.
[2:55:05] The other thing is that we're, there is a small
[2:55:10] overlap on the corner, one of the,
[2:55:14] the southwest corner with a property on Edgewater Drive
[2:55:19] and we've approached that a but
[2:55:21] and explained that this would be a small taking by the town,
[2:55:25] so that would require
[2:55:29] a town meeting approval of that.
[2:55:33] So that's, that's pretty much where, where the progress
[2:55:36] that we've made to this point.
[2:55:39] So we're still working through those utility pole
[2:55:41] relocations and taking,
[2:55:45] I just wanted to add too about the
[2:55:48] proposed projects developing off of 1 28 and Dham.
[2:55:52] So one thing I'll just sort
[2:55:54] of indicate is the general overall enhancements
[2:55:58] that are gonna be made as part of this project are going
[2:56:00] to increase the capacity
[2:56:01] that can be processed through this intersection.
[2:56:04] And the information that we have so far about
[2:56:06] what the intended throughput
[2:56:08] through this intersection will be has been conveyed
[2:56:11] to the engineer and will be taken into
[2:56:13] consideration as part of the design.
[2:56:17] And Yeah, they, that information,
[2:56:20] I'm under the impression that we also reached out to the,
[2:56:23] to the MEPA review with some information about this new
[2:56:27] proposed scheme.
[2:56:30] Yes. Everything you're getting presented, Tyler asked
[2:56:33] that we share with Mepa as an addendum to our comments
[2:56:36] to the campus at 1 28 project. And so we've done that
[2:56:38] Because this will be done
[2:56:39] before that project decision's made.
[2:56:42] Correct, yes. Okay, great.
[2:56:45] And Tyler, I'm sorry if I missed it,
[2:56:48] but I know that South Street is a big cyclist route.
[2:56:54] Is there possibility of getting some of those, you know,
[2:56:57] four feet signs
[2:56:59] and whatever else that might need to go up
[2:57:02] to protect those folks as this,
[2:57:05] as this is built to carry more traffic?
[2:57:08] So I think one of the con we,
[2:57:10] we've had this conversation about the signage
[2:57:13] and I think South Street's a perfect example.
[2:57:15] I think of the concerns we've had
[2:57:17] and it's sort of a philosoph philosophical decision, but
[2:57:21] because of the forefoot requirement
[2:57:24] that you must give a cyclist four feet
[2:57:26] of clearance when you pass them,
[2:57:29] I would say on many parts of South Street.
[2:57:32] So sort of two things. One is you are telling people they
[2:57:35] have to cross a double yellow line,
[2:57:37] which they're not supposed to cross.
[2:57:39] We know they do, but like from a truly
[2:57:42] road control perspective, they're not supposed to cross.
[2:57:44] And because of the topography of South Street,
[2:57:49] which is very curved,
[2:57:51] there are very few places where it's safe.
[2:57:53] And I think one of the concerns we've had is that if we sign
[2:57:56] that and somebody does give four feet of grace
[2:57:58] to a bicyclist and they get hit on a head on collision
[2:58:01] because there's no, there's not sufficient space
[2:58:04] for both vehicles to fit
[2:58:06] and also give forfeit of clearance if there isn't some,
[2:58:09] some responsibility or liability.
[2:58:11] So I know there are many communities
[2:58:13] that have installed them and they felt
[2:58:14] that this is an okay, you know, decision.
[2:58:17] I think we at public works have been concerned about
[2:58:19] what the implications would be
[2:58:22] because effectively on South Street in many locations you
[2:58:26] really have to go at the speed of a bicyclist
[2:58:28] because there is not sufficient space to pass.
[2:58:31] What is the speed limit on South Street? It
[2:58:34] Varies between 30 and 25 miles an hour
[2:58:39] 30 in this section.
[2:58:41] Yeah, I guess I'm wondering if that's appropriate, given
[2:58:46] what you said, like the the topography
[2:58:49] or the, the curvy nature
[2:58:50] or the road, if you can only see far enough ahead
[2:58:54] that you can't figure out how to safely pass,
[2:58:58] which you know, we should all know how to do
[2:59:00] because that's part of driving.
[2:59:03] Then I wonder if the speed limit should potentially come
[2:59:06] down because at that the kind of cyclist who's on that road
[2:59:12] is not like, it's not a child
[2:59:15] or a family cyclist, those are road bikers.
[2:59:19] They're moving at at a reasonable speed for that
[2:59:23] particular road for the most part.
[2:59:26] Not all the time of course, but for the most part.
[2:59:28] So I wonder if that's something
[2:59:30] that we should just think about.
[2:59:33] Yeah, the only comment I'll make is
[2:59:35] that typically speaking you set
[2:59:37] speed limits at 80% of the median speed.
[2:59:40] And I'll just say anecdotally from the RFPs
[2:59:42] or the feed speed feedback signs we've put out,
[2:59:46] many people are going well above 30 miles
[2:59:47] an hour in that section.
[2:59:50] Understood. But yes,
[2:59:51] but I don't know that that
[2:59:53] that's something we wanna condone.
[2:59:55] So
[2:59:57] Other I may, I it's, I think it's just important to note
[3:00:00] that changing the speed limit does not
[3:00:05] necessarily on its own influence speeding behavior.
[3:00:10] So we understood, we, you know, I think we're open
[3:00:14] to exploring that and,
[3:00:16] and we're not against it by any means.
[3:00:19] I think that we just don't want to change a number
[3:00:23] and then ev nothing really changes
[3:00:24] and then all of a sudden we have a bunch
[3:00:26] of non-compliant drivers who are
[3:00:29] dangerously above the speed limit.
[3:00:31] So we, we want to also do
[3:00:36] that in combination with other strategies if
[3:00:38] that's the goal is to reduce that, the functional speed.
[3:00:44] Sure. I think generally I'm hearing can we integrate
[3:00:46] more bicycle safety into this intersection?
[3:00:50] Yeah, I mean, I just think that we have to acknowledge
[3:00:53] that this in particular is, is frequented by
[3:00:59] cyclists and one particular kind of cyclist.
[3:01:02] So it's not, it's not like the variability
[3:01:04] that we might talk about through other sections of town.
[3:01:08] But just as Tyler is saying, just
[3:01:12] because you changed the science doesn't
[3:01:14] change the circumstance.
[3:01:15] I think just because, you know, I mean
[3:01:17] this condition exists, they're there,
[3:01:19] so we should just make sure
[3:01:20] that everyone's can be safe gentlemen,
[3:01:25] Hang. Go ahead Bill.
[3:01:26] So I have three questions
[3:01:29] right now coming down South Street.
[3:01:32] I see in the new plan actually that there's no turn on red
[3:01:35] onto Tima, whether you're coming down south
[3:01:38] and wanna take a right to go to Tima
[3:01:39] or if you're coming down south
[3:01:41] and wanna take a right into Needham, is that currently no.
[3:01:44] Turn on red? It is for both of those, yes.
[3:01:46] And then you were talking about the sidewalk.
[3:01:48] The sidewalk goes in front of the DPW building
[3:01:50] and then it just ends, doesn't it at South Street
[3:01:52] or does it go around the corner or?
[3:01:53] So it just ends, I'll say there's sort of two things
[3:01:56] that are crossing people or causing people to cross.
[3:01:59] So one is the proximity
[3:02:01] of the boat launch across the street.
[3:02:02] There's a lot of people who recreate
[3:02:03] between those two locations.
[3:02:05] So they end up sort
[3:02:06] of having a circuit or a loop that they do.
[3:02:08] And then the other one is really from
[3:02:10] that community at Edgewater.
[3:02:12] We do see a lot of people who will cut through,
[3:02:14] they'll walk, you know, sort of on people's yards basically
[3:02:18] to get over to that intersection and then they will cross.
[3:02:21] One other thing I just wanted to note,
[3:02:23] 'cause you highlighted already
[3:02:25] that we have no turn on red on South.
[3:02:27] We do have some frequency of accidents at this intersection.
[3:02:30] I can just say from having my building adjacent to it,
[3:02:33] it is not uncommon to have have accidents there
[3:02:38] and that those accidents have physically impacted the
[3:02:41] signals and that they have hit the
[3:02:43] signals repeatedly in the past.
[3:02:45] And so was the goal though,
[3:02:46] to have the crosswalk then have a sidewalk like go up south
[3:02:49] to the both lodge or have a sidewalk go up to Edgewater?
[3:02:52] I think that's the goal that we're looking,
[3:02:53] we're moving towards, there are just a few pieces in place,
[3:02:57] the culvert on South Street being the primary obstacle,
[3:03:00] trying to figure out how we could either accommodate it in
[3:03:02] the current right of way or cantilever it.
[3:03:04] And then I would say the same conversation could be had on
[3:03:07] the other side of South Street as well.
[3:03:09] And then I notice on this map that I have in front
[3:03:12] of me right now, it has the little planter where the welcome
[3:03:15] to Needham sign is
[3:03:16] and it says RET, which I hope that does not mean retire.
[3:03:19] I don't know what that means. What? What's it mean?
[3:03:25] It means retain. Okay, thanks.
[3:03:28] That's what I was Good answer.
[3:03:30] Thank you. Okay. Alright.
[3:03:32] Alright. Josh, Bill, you answered,
[3:03:34] you asked most of my questions.
[3:03:36] The other one was, was about biking the,
[3:03:40] it's particularly busy on South Street on the weekends.
[3:03:42] The, the survey says at most four bikes per hour.
[3:03:47] Do you know when the survey was conducted?
[3:03:49] I'd have to defer to Tyler,
[3:03:51] but I agree with you it's, it's more frequent on weekends,
[3:03:53] although it comes in spurts. Yeah,
[3:03:54] Yeah, for sure.
[3:03:56] The groups. Yeah, there was a memo
[3:03:58] that was distributed in your packet
[3:04:03] that describes the observation.
[3:04:07] I'm afraid I didn't get to
[3:04:08] read through the whole thing. Yeah,
[3:04:09] I it, yeah.
[3:04:10] So the it page,
[3:04:15] it's page four of the memo that's appended before the plans
[3:04:20] and it says, it talks about the data collection.
[3:04:24] It said that the, the counts were conducted Wednesday,
[3:04:28] April 15th and April 16th, 2025. Okay,
[3:04:33] Thank you.
[3:04:35] And I, I know you haven't gotten a chance yet
[3:04:37] and neither has Kathy, can I just ask,
[3:04:39] does the grant cover the total cost of this work or
[3:04:43] I'll have to, it's a, there's a small match from the town
[3:04:45] but Tyler, do you just wanna go through
[3:04:47] what the anticipated costs are?
[3:04:49] Yep. So after the plans in your packet,
[3:04:54] there is also a estimate
[3:04:58] provided from the, the designer.
[3:05:02] The total estimated total
[3:05:04] with contingency on this project is just shy
[3:05:07] of 700,000.
[3:05:11] The project, the grant that we're talking about,
[3:05:15] the bottleneck reduction grant will cover the first 500,000
[3:05:19] of the construction if the engineer determines that to be
[3:05:25] an a, a, an improvement either safety or
[3:05:28] or traffic performance.
[3:05:31] So the delta of that would would be covered
[3:05:36] by the town through either through local funds
[3:05:40] or through a chapter 90 allocation.
[3:05:46] This is yet to be finalized.
[3:05:50] Okay. And then if any
[3:05:55] alterations to this intersection were required
[3:05:59] or suggested for the function
[3:06:03] of the campus at 1 28, that would be,
[3:06:08] I'll just say like we And future.
[3:06:10] Yeah and we've sort of talked about it internally
[3:06:12] and you have a space limited area in which you can only
[3:06:17] develop to a certain extent
[3:06:19] and we believe that the design
[3:06:21] that we're working on will maximize the throughput.
[3:06:24] Trying to say, you know, you have a bridge on one side,
[3:06:27] you have dead a MAV
[3:06:29] and you have property owners on either side, right?
[3:06:31] So you only have so much space that you could extend for
[3:06:34] alternative turn lanes or something like that.
[3:06:36] So we feel fairly conf confident in this design as far
[3:06:39] as its ability to accommodate that additional traffic.
[3:06:42] Okay, thank you Kevin.
[3:06:44] No, this is really interesting.
[3:06:47] I spend too much time on maps like these.
[3:06:51] I find 'em fascinating and thank you.
[3:06:53] This intersection's always been over for
[3:06:57] how it was originally laid out.
[3:06:58] It's definitely heavily used. So thank you for updating it.
[3:07:04] Kathy, any comments? No, no questions.
[3:07:09] Thanks. Okay, thank you.
[3:07:16] And we'll stay with Kara's Lustig
[3:07:18] and move on to our next item,
[3:07:21] which is a discussion of win waste negotiations.
[3:07:27] For this thank you for,
[3:07:28] For this we're we're bringing up more superstars Stars
[3:07:32] council, Dave Davidson,
[3:07:35] deputy town manager and director of Finance.
[3:07:38] Welcome. Thank you.
[3:07:41] Okay, so the day that Met DeMare has been talking about
[3:07:45] for a long time is finally coming to fruition
[3:07:48] and our 20 year agreement with currently with wind waste
[3:07:53] is set to expire June 30th, 2028.
[3:07:56] That was originally negotiated as part of a large consortium
[3:08:02] that consisted over 30 communities, all
[3:08:05] of which have executed their own individual contracts, some
[3:08:08] of which actually expired June 30th, 2027.
[3:08:12] So while it feels like we are talking about this well in
[3:08:16] advance of our contract expiring, working
[3:08:19] with over 30 communities in order to try to negotiate
[3:08:22] with such a large partner, we know we'll take quite a bit
[3:08:24] of time in order to secure contracts in the time
[3:08:27] that we need in order to have a MSW vendor.
[3:08:32] So as I said for a little bit of history,
[3:08:36] we have a current contract with When Waste, when we
[3:08:40] executed it, it was a 10 year agreement
[3:08:43] with 10 option years.
[3:08:45] At about year eight the company was looking to sell
[3:08:48] and so wanted to get all of its contracts in line.
[3:08:51] So they actually opened up that extension early
[3:08:54] so they could ex extend it for later.
[3:08:56] As a consequence of this,
[3:08:57] we saw a significant reduction in our tonnage tipping fee
[3:09:02] to the point where the tipping fee last year was the first
[3:09:05] time that it matched what our tipping fee was 12 years ago.
[3:09:08] So it took us 12 years to catch back up to where we were.
[3:09:11] Very few things when you are purchasing do you get to take
[3:09:14] that much of a cut and for that long.
[3:09:17] That being said, we are acutely aware
[3:09:19] that we are likely paying under market value
[3:09:23] for our MSW
[3:09:25] and that we are anticipating an increase,
[3:09:27] which we've been discussing for several years.
[3:09:29] About a year ago, all the communities that were part
[3:09:32] of the original agreement met to try to discuss
[3:09:34] how we wanted to move forward.
[3:09:36] We've actually had the addition of about three communities
[3:09:38] come into that group who are not part of it and we had one
[3:09:42] or two smaller communities leave.
[3:09:44] Part of the constraints and the concerns
[3:09:45] that we have about the waste industry in Massachusetts is
[3:09:49] there are no new landfills.
[3:09:50] Most of them are being permitted to close
[3:09:52] or beyond their permit.
[3:09:53] We have no new waste energy facilities being created
[3:09:57] and there's not less trash being generated in the state.
[3:10:00] So we have waste and we need to figure out where to go.
[3:10:04] The AL option alternatives we have to,
[3:10:06] our current contract are really to ship that waste out
[3:10:11] of state on freight largely to Ohio and New York.
[3:10:16] So all the communities that have come together
[3:10:19] have been discussing how we as a group can come together
[3:10:21] to negotiate with win.
[3:10:23] As I mentioned, it was about 20 years ago,
[3:10:25] we lasted our major negotiation
[3:10:27] and as you can imagine, many of the players that were part
[3:10:29] of that contract to be their transition positions
[3:10:31] or are no longer employ, you know, they're all retired.
[3:10:34] So we've been trying to figure out
[3:10:36] and uncover some documentation about the method
[3:10:38] that we used 20 years ago to get this consortium together.
[3:10:43] We ended up discussing
[3:10:44] and talking to the firm that represented this group
[3:10:47] 20 years ago, KP Law.
[3:10:49] And their recommendation was
[3:10:51] to do an interm municipal agreement with Walpole
[3:10:54] and have Walpole manage the contract with KP Law
[3:10:57] for Legal Guidance.
[3:10:59] The group that I'm referring to has created a subcommittee
[3:11:03] that consists of seven different communities.
[3:11:05] Needham is one of those seven communities
[3:11:08] and that subcommittee is gonna be the committee
[3:11:10] in charge of negotiations.
[3:11:11] So it is intended
[3:11:13] that these municipal representatives will be doing the
[3:11:16] primary negotiation
[3:11:17] and that the legal expertise that we're soliciting is really
[3:11:21] to provide legal background and clarity for us.
[3:11:25] So with that I am asking the ability
[3:11:27] to join in this interim municipal agreement with Walpole
[3:11:30] so they can then contract with KP law.
[3:11:33] So that as in, first of all, we are trying to figure out
[3:11:37] how many communities are really
[3:11:39] willing to commit to move forward.
[3:11:41] We have given all the communities the deadline
[3:11:43] of August 31st to try to start our negotiations in earnest.
[3:11:49] And second of all, so we can start engaging
[3:11:52] with win wind waste.
[3:11:54] We haven't started any formal negotiations with them.
[3:11:57] They have given us a tour of the facility so we can sort
[3:11:59] of see the condition of, of what they have,
[3:12:01] what their capital plans are
[3:12:04] and kind of what benefit we have.
[3:12:07] One of the things I'll note is
[3:12:10] that while when waste is a very large entity
[3:12:13] and they have a significant foothold in the waste industry,
[3:12:17] this particular contract has a high value to them,
[3:12:21] we provide the sort of sta stable waste
[3:12:26] in this organi in this entity.
[3:12:28] They get a lot of construction waste
[3:12:29] or other large commercial waste.
[3:12:31] But MSW is sort of that like consistent feed slow burn
[3:12:35] for the incinerator that helps them meet their energy
[3:12:37] guidelines that they're supposed to to secure.
[3:12:41] And I just wanted to articulate,
[3:12:42] the two largest players in this group are Newton
[3:12:45] and Worcester as in terms of size
[3:12:47] and in terms of waste generation.
[3:12:51] Needham is the seventh largest community as part
[3:12:54] of this consortium, but I will indicate we are the fourth
[3:12:56] largest in terms of waste generation.
[3:12:59] Part of that is because we have become somewhat
[3:13:02] of a regional area for commercial waste.
[3:13:04] So we're taking in waste not just from residents,
[3:13:06] but we're also taking it from commercial haulers
[3:13:10] and source other people.
[3:13:11] And many of several of the other communities
[3:13:13] of comparable size to Needham have large,
[3:13:16] larger apartment complexes than Needham does,
[3:13:18] in which they have private entities
[3:13:20] that remove the waste and not the town.
[3:13:24] Okay. That's a lot of information. Kevin, you could
[3:13:28] You all without notes.
[3:13:29] Okay. A few notes. No, this sounds like it makes sense.
[3:13:34] I'm happy we got the ball going and it sounds reasonable.
[3:13:39] So yeah.
[3:13:41] Josh, you wanna, So this is just to negotiate,
[3:13:48] my understanding is like there would be individual contracts
[3:13:50] still between each municipality and wind waste.
[3:13:53] Would, would they have the same terms between all
[3:13:56] of the municipalities or is that subject to negotiation?
[3:13:58] So I think the intent is for them to have the same terms.
[3:14:02] You have many different communities
[3:14:03] who operate significantly different models.
[3:14:06] So you have communities that are fully
[3:14:10] municipally run in our transfer stations,
[3:14:14] all indicate Wellesley was not part of this in the past.
[3:14:17] They are looking to join as part of this program
[3:14:19] because of the capacity issues they have at
[3:14:21] the landfill they have contracted with.
[3:14:24] So you have those, the model similar to Needham,
[3:14:28] we send our materials there on oversized trucks.
[3:14:34] You then have communities
[3:14:36] that run their own collection services
[3:14:39] and then they go there and haul.
[3:14:40] They usually go there twice a day as part
[3:14:43] of their regular routes.
[3:14:44] And then you have communities that outsource their hauling
[3:14:48] and collect to this location.
[3:14:50] So the reason that we would all execute is our
[3:14:53] physical delivery is different.
[3:14:54] I will say for the original
[3:14:56] contract, the terms were all the same. Okay,
[3:14:58] Thank you Bill.
[3:15:01] Well I think it's great. We're getting ahead of it,
[3:15:03] you know, you gotta, I hate wasting time
[3:15:05] because it costs you more money.
[3:15:06] So I think the sooner we can get ahead of it,
[3:15:09] the better off we're gonna be.
[3:15:11] Great. Kathy?
[3:15:13] Yeah, I think this makes entire sense.
[3:15:16] I mean we need the, we need the volume to negotiate.
[3:15:20] You know, we've, we've, it's worked for us well in the past
[3:15:23] and so I I'm supportive of this.
[3:15:27] Can I just ask why, why is wealth the lead?
[3:15:30] So interestingly enough, they were the lead 20 years ago.
[3:15:32] Whether that's a good answer or not, they have chosen
[3:15:36] to sort of take on I guess the administrative burden
[3:15:38] of collecting the information.
[3:15:41] It is a little bit like herding cats trying
[3:15:43] to get over 30 municipalities with different forms
[3:15:45] of government in order to all commit.
[3:15:48] And they also had worked with KP Law in the past,
[3:15:51] as I indicated they were the firm
[3:15:52] that represented this group 20 years ago
[3:15:54] and have some of the institutional records
[3:15:56] that we thought would be useful as part of negotiations.
[3:15:59] Okay, Madam Chair then I would move
[3:16:01] that the select board approve
[3:16:02] and execute the interim municipal agreement between the town
[3:16:06] of WaPo and various municipalities
[3:16:08] regarding solid waste contract negotiations.
[3:16:11] Subject to the additional stipulation
[3:16:13] provided by WaPo that went total fees, cost
[3:16:16] and expenses bill to all parties under section two
[3:16:18] of the agreement exceed $75,000.
[3:16:21] The wall poll representative shall notify all other parties,
[3:16:24] representatives by email at the email addresses set forth in
[3:16:28] this agreement, and the parties shall properly confer
[3:16:31] through their representatives by teleconference
[3:16:33] regarding anticipated future cost
[3:16:36] and continuation of the agreement.
[3:16:38] Second.
[3:16:40] All righty then. So Kathy?
[3:16:44] Yes, Phil? Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin. Aye.
[3:16:49] And I vote Yes. Thank you very much. Appreciate this.
[3:16:55] Okay, next up
[3:17:00] we have Miles Tucker, our support services manager to talk
[3:17:03] to us about digital legal notices, warrant,
[3:17:06] article proposal.
[3:17:09] Thank you Madam Chair. Good evening.
[3:17:10] Members of the board, I will try
[3:17:12] and keep this brief given the hour.
[3:17:15] So Last year goals, this board set as one
[3:17:20] of its initiatives to study a home rule petition
[3:17:22] to permit the town to place legal notices
[3:17:26] on a digital format as opposed
[3:17:27] to having them printed in a newspaper.
[3:17:30] This is a relatively recent option
[3:17:32] provided to communities by the Commonwealth
[3:17:33] and has been successfully completed by other communities,
[3:17:36] Arlington and Lincoln or some of our peers who have passed
[3:17:40] a similar home rule petition.
[3:17:44] This is beneficial to the town in
[3:17:46] that there is a consistently shrinking
[3:17:49] printed newspaper market, especially with the recent
[3:17:52] limited distribution of the last print newspaper name,
[3:17:56] the Hometown Weekly, which no longer
[3:17:58] does home deliveries anymore.
[3:17:59] They deliver to 70 sites in town,
[3:18:01] but it's, it's further limited.
[3:18:04] So in your packet is a draft warrant article containing the
[3:18:07] text of the proposed home rule petition.
[3:18:09] It is nearly identical to two peer communities, Westford
[3:18:13] and Wellesley that have recently passed
[3:18:16] said home rule petition.
[3:18:18] Both of those are still with our friends at the general
[3:18:20] court, but the way that the law was updated,
[3:18:25] it's pretty clear what this language needs to be.
[3:18:29] It would permit the town as well as school department
[3:18:32] to post in five specific locations.
[3:18:36] Those could be printed newspapers,
[3:18:39] a printed newspapers website, a local digital news site,
[3:18:43] a statewide legal notice repository, or a town repository.
[3:18:47] It's worth noting that the town already has a part
[3:18:49] of our website that has public hearings
[3:18:52] and legal notices in one central location.
[3:18:54] So that already exists. Does not change the actual noticing
[3:18:58] requirement time that a legal notice would need
[3:19:01] to be placed in advance or anything.
[3:19:03] Those time limits are still in place.
[3:19:06] Notably, our deputy town manager, director
[3:19:08] of finance highlighted to us
[3:19:10] that tax takings will still need
[3:19:12] to be printed in the newspaper.
[3:19:13] So this applies to most, but not all legal notices.
[3:19:18] Tax takings are a specific thing that need
[3:19:20] to be still printed, representing a
[3:19:25] very, very, very, very, very small percent
[3:19:28] of our overall legal notices.
[3:19:31] A proposed concept for the operating of this
[3:19:34] home rule petition, if it were to be passed
[3:19:36] and passed by the legislature,
[3:19:37] would be using the town's webpage
[3:19:40] that exists right now as the default.
[3:19:42] However, committees
[3:19:44] or the bodies that would be using these that are required
[3:19:49] to post these legal notices would solve the option
[3:19:51] to post any of the five available other sorts of media
[3:19:56] in the event that wider distribution would be
[3:19:59] wanted by that body.
[3:20:02] And with that, the draft article, again,
[3:20:05] is both included in this packet as well as in the draft
[3:20:07] of the special town meeting warrant
[3:20:09] that you will address later in this meeting
[3:20:10] because there's still later in this meeting.
[3:20:14] And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions.
[3:20:16] Miles, what's what happens for the, for the tax takings,
[3:20:21] I mean for those that are required to be in a newspaper,
[3:20:25] what, what happens if there's no newspaper?
[3:20:28] That's a great question. Well, I will say as well,
[3:20:32] it's a newspaper that is distributed here.
[3:20:36] Past practice has been to go with the local newspapers.
[3:20:40] There are also the Boston Globe and Boston Herald.
[3:20:42] Those are distributed here.
[3:20:44] Frankly speaking, the the price is significantly higher than
[3:20:49] the local distribution papers.
[3:20:51] So we've, we've gone to the globe in examples where to,
[3:20:56] to the point of the time notices not being changed in the
[3:20:59] past where, you know,
[3:21:02] I'll admit when I was a new staff member here,
[3:21:04] I missed a posting deadline.
[3:21:05] I believe it was for a cable hearing.
[3:21:07] So we had to go out to the globe
[3:21:09] because we needed it done soon and it was able to be done.
[3:21:14] So there, there are still papers of record
[3:21:16] that are distributed with enough distribution in Needham.
[3:21:18] Okay. So it it doesn't need to be a local paper?
[3:21:21] No, it needs to have, I forget the specific term,
[3:21:25] but it's, it's effectively why Definit
[3:21:26] Circulation of some, yeah.
[3:21:28] Okay. All right.
[3:21:30] Well this is, this is really very comprehensive.
[3:21:33] I am, I'm shocked to see the cost
[3:21:38] spent on printing legal notices in fiscal year 2026 was 30
[3:21:42] over $34,000.
[3:21:44] So it seems to me like not only is this actually
[3:21:49] generally speaking, probably more convenient for folks,
[3:21:53] but also considerably less
[3:21:54] expensive I would hope for the town.
[3:21:56] Do we know what the comparable cost of digital, I mean
[3:22:01] presumably nothing
[3:22:02] but staff time, which is not insignificant
[3:22:05] for the town website, but do other
[3:22:09] local outlets charge for digital notices?
[3:22:13] That's a great question. I don't know at this time.
[3:22:17] For example, we have a few digital only
[3:22:20] publications here in Needham.
[3:22:21] The town is not permitted to notice with them, so Okay.
[3:22:25] That there's not exactly a market. Yeah.
[3:22:28] However, to your point and,
[3:22:30] and to highlight back on what the director of community
[3:22:33] communication and community engagement mentioned earlier,
[3:22:36] we do not want people to not know what's going on.
[3:22:40] This does not restrict the town
[3:22:42] or the schools from posting only to our website.
[3:22:45] The other media are still permitted
[3:22:47] and it actually increases the scope
[3:22:50] by which the town is permitted to communicate,
[3:22:53] which would be beneficial, I would believe.
[3:22:56] Great. Anyone else? No,
[3:23:00] I think this has been official for the town.
[3:23:03] I mean it's, I mean coming,
[3:23:05] it's bringing the town into the times.
[3:23:08] Most people don't subscribe to a newspaper, let alone,
[3:23:11] you know, get a free one anymore.
[3:23:14] I think because Amy was just here talking about,
[3:23:17] you know, how people get their news.
[3:23:19] I do think it's really important to have
[3:23:20] that central repository to at least have all
[3:23:23] of the postings on the town website.
[3:23:25] And then certainly we can add other postings
[3:23:28] in other locations as well.
[3:23:29] Could I suggest like one small change, like to that effect?
[3:23:33] So this would allow posting in any of these five could,
[3:23:37] could we say it's satisfied by posting it
[3:23:39] to the town website plus any of these other locations?
[3:23:43] Because that would just ensure that it's always, always has
[3:23:47] to be posted to the town website so
[3:23:48] that it's in one central location.
[3:23:51] Always.
[3:23:52] That's a good question. I'd have to confer with council.
[3:23:54] Yeah. And, and report back.
[3:23:57] And I just wanna say I appreciate town
[3:23:58] council for drafting this.
[3:23:59] Yeah, yeah. But I think, correct me if I'm wrong,
[3:24:03] but you did say that we are currently keeping all of
[3:24:06] This is something we already do.
[3:24:07] That's correct. It's current practice.
[3:24:08] We already have all the ads, procurement, public meetings,
[3:24:13] they're already posted on the website
[3:24:14] in a central repository.
[3:24:16] Okay. So it's something we're already doing.
[3:24:18] I, I'm just thinking ahead for the future
[3:24:20] because practices can change over time.
[3:24:26] All right. Anyone else? Yeah,
[3:24:31] Kevin, I used to work for a publisher
[3:24:32] who said the legal notices for license to print money.
[3:24:37] And I think though times have changed
[3:24:39] and the reality of it is that websites replace newspapers
[3:24:44] and we have to be and go where people are reading.
[3:24:47] So we should, I'm all for this.
[3:24:49] This is, I mean it's very sad to see the newspapers go.
[3:24:52] Yeah. But the reality is we could
[3:24:56] realize some savings
[3:24:57] but also reach the people we need to reach better.
[3:25:01] Wow,
[3:25:03] That's good.
[3:25:04] Great. Thank you. Kathy has her hand up.
[3:25:07] Oh, Kathy, go ahead.
[3:25:09] Yeah, I think that, you know, it makes sense for us
[3:25:12] to continue the practice of, you know,
[3:25:15] always putting something on our website as, as a way
[3:25:18] to have a record and to have it there.
[3:25:20] I think in terms of the way we draft the law, it,
[3:25:24] it does make sense to model it off of
[3:25:26] what has already worked from these other towns.
[3:25:28] I mean we're talking about a home rule petition.
[3:25:30] These things are a giant pain
[3:25:33] and I would just go with what works.
[3:25:36] Yeah, I suppose we can always add in practice a,
[3:25:41] a secondary if we choose to do that.
[3:25:43] But I, I wonder about requiring it as a point of law
[3:25:48] that, you know, that seems like they could
[3:25:50] be encumbering ourselves.
[3:25:53] Who knows what is gonna happen in the future.
[3:25:57] Have, have these, I think the ones these,
[3:25:59] this is modeled after, haven't been passed. Right?
[3:26:02] Have they, the two specific ones, Westford
[3:26:04] and Wellesley have not, they're still in the general court,
[3:26:06] however extraordinarily comparable
[3:26:10] ones in Lexington and Sudbury for example.
[3:26:12] Have.
[3:26:15] Okay. Now if you could, if you could get
[3:26:16] that answer from time counsel, I think that
[3:26:17] Would be helpful.
[3:26:18] I'd be more than happy to. Thank
[3:26:19] You.
[3:26:20] Thanks Miles. You're welcome.
[3:26:24] Okay, so next up we're gonna look at
[3:26:29] the town manager and first on that is referring,
[3:26:33] accepting and referring the zoning.
[3:26:35] Great. The planning board has been having their
[3:26:39] deliberations for articles
[3:26:40] for the October special town meeting.
[3:26:42] And so what's before you tonight is they have asked for you
[3:26:46] to accept and refer back to them
[3:26:48] two articles under the umbrella of the large house review,
[3:26:51] one on half story attic requirements
[3:26:54] and the other on height requirements.
[3:26:57] And this is a procedural vote that you have
[3:26:59] to take under state law.
[3:27:03] Okay. Any thoughts from my colleagues?
[3:27:08] I, all right then
[3:27:11] I would move that the board would accept all
[3:27:13] the proposed zoning articles.
[3:27:14] Article one, amen's zoning, bylaw half story in parent
[3:27:18] at requirements in the single residence B District article
[3:27:22] two, Amen's zoning bylaw height requirements in the single
[3:27:25] residence B District for referral to the planning board
[3:27:28] for its review, hearing and report.
[3:27:32] Second. All right.
[3:27:36] And we'll take a vote. Kathy?
[3:27:41] Yes. Bill? Yes. Josh? Yes Kevin.
[3:27:45] Aye I vote Yes. Thank you.
[3:27:51] Next,
[3:27:53] Next up is asking the board to call
[3:27:55] for an open the special town meeting warrant,
[3:27:58] which will be held on Monday October 19th, 2026.
[3:28:03] We, you are being asked to open the warrant tonight.
[3:28:06] Just looking ahead, you would close the warrant at your next
[3:28:09] meeting September 8th.
[3:28:11] So at that point we'd hopefully have
[3:28:12] no additions after that point.
[3:28:15] But there is, you have a meeting September 22nd,
[3:28:19] which is your final meeting before it goes to print.
[3:28:21] So we could still make changes, withdrawals
[3:28:24] or changes to the article, language, et cetera.
[3:28:28] I do wanna just walk through the draft warrant.
[3:28:31] This is very much first draft, a lot of placeholders,
[3:28:34] but just to give the board and the public a sense
[3:28:38] and just I'll walk through the articles
[3:28:42] and I would love if the board, if there's any
[3:28:44] that you particularly would like a presentation on.
[3:28:47] Just note that and I can start getting those scheduled
[3:28:49] for your next couple of meetings.
[3:28:51] And this is the moment, lemme just pause
[3:28:52] and say it's August, it's summer, and yet here we are
[3:28:56] and we're like headlong into town meeting.
[3:28:58] So this is when things start like ramping up at a speed
[3:29:02] that no one ever anticipates
[3:29:03] until we're in the middle of it.
[3:29:05] So walking through the draft warrant,
[3:29:09] the first article is appropriate
[3:29:11] for the Pollard Middle School.
[3:29:13] And this language has been drafted by town council.
[3:29:16] We will ensure that MSBA has had a chance to review it
[3:29:20] and bond council as well
[3:29:22] before we insert the language into the
[3:29:24] warrant. Basically there will be
[3:29:27] Lots of presentations to come this,
[3:29:29] Yes, many presentations to come.
[3:29:34] The next handful are placeholders should we need them.
[3:29:38] So unpaid bills
[3:29:40] and line item transfers if needed within
[3:29:43] our FY 2027 operating budget.
[3:29:45] And our two enterprise fund budgets for sewer and water.
[3:29:50] So we're gathering if any of those will be needed.
[3:29:55] We have our public education and government programming peg.
[3:29:58] This is pass through funds from cable providers
[3:30:03] to the the Needham channel.
[3:30:05] And so we have this on every warrant to,
[3:30:10] I have a timely expediting pass through.
[3:30:14] It is 9 42.
[3:30:17] The next two articles are the zoning ones
[3:30:19] that you just took the procedural vote on.
[3:30:23] And I guess I pause
[3:30:24] and see if the board would like a presentation on those.
[3:30:28] Yes, absolutely. Yes. Great.
[3:30:31] I will work with the planning board planning director
[3:30:33] to schedule those under
[3:30:37] general articles.
[3:30:39] We're on page six of the draft warrant.
[3:30:41] There's the home rule petition related to the Article 97
[3:30:47] for Warner Field as part of the Pollard project
[3:30:50] that we've discussed at your last few meetings.
[3:30:53] So this is the continuation of the local approvals
[3:30:56] that we would be required to comply with.
[3:30:58] Article 97.
[3:31:00] Madam Chair, the last time we had an Article 97
[3:31:04] article in the warrant, it appeared right
[3:31:07] after the, the article that we were voting on.
[3:31:10] Oh, maybe that might help with the flow if we made
[3:31:14] that article two right after Pollard.
[3:31:17] Let me confer with town counsel on that. Yep.
[3:31:26] Okay. You had a presentation at your last meeting
[3:31:30] regarding the proposed single parcel historic district
[3:31:33] for the White House on South Street.
[3:31:34] So there's a placeholder there.
[3:31:38] One question for the board, the
[3:31:43] proposal for a general bylaw amendment
[3:31:46] around tree protection and preservation.
[3:31:48] I wanted to gauge deferral to May versus
[3:31:53] advancing to the October special time meeting.
[3:31:59] As much as I would like to see this go to October, I,
[3:32:02] I'm a little concerned about the timeline given
[3:32:05] the number of big events.
[3:32:07] I mean not only Pollard, I'm I, all of the stuff that goes
[3:32:09] with that, but also the election.
[3:32:14] We still haven't had,
[3:32:15] we haven't had a public hearing on the part
[3:32:17] of the select board for this bylaw.
[3:32:21] And so it just seems like a lot to squeeze in.
[3:32:23] But if, I mean, if it's feasible, sure
[3:32:28] that would, that would mean I would like to see that.
[3:32:31] But if it's, but I think we have to evaluate whether
[3:32:34] or not it's really feasible in light of all of the,
[3:32:39] the big fixed items on the,
[3:32:45] on the docket for the fall.
[3:32:49] I would lean towards maybe
[3:32:50] 'cause I just don't see how it can be feasible
[3:32:52] to get everything done that we need to get done.
[3:32:54] Yeah, I I mean I'm worried
[3:32:56] About it.
[3:32:57] I'm not, I'm the same. Not
[3:32:57] that I don't want it to be done, but
[3:32:58] As we, as we game out like all of the time that is needed
[3:33:02] for each one of these things, issues, you know,
[3:33:05] I I just worry that this one's
[3:33:06] gonna get knocked off the plate.
[3:33:08] So as we game it out, I, I mean I'd like
[3:33:11] to keep the possibility open I guess,
[3:33:13] until our next meeting.
[3:33:16] But I, I acknowledge that, I think
[3:33:19] that the timeline is really tight.
[3:33:24] I'm just thinking of scheduling wise,
[3:33:28] your next meeting, September 8th is
[3:33:30] immediately after Labor Day.
[3:33:31] So if you wanted to hold the public hearing, I'd recommend
[3:33:34] to do that your September 22nd meeting, you would have,
[3:33:43] if you had the hearing that night,
[3:33:45] that would be your last chance to take it off the
[3:33:48] warrant right then.
[3:33:49] So it's tight I guess.
[3:33:51] And I think it just, you'd have more time
[3:33:54] to process feedback if you received any, if you defer to me.
[3:33:59] Sure. Okay.
[3:34:03] I don't, we don't have
[3:34:04] to make this decision at this moment though.
[3:34:06] I, I can keep the placeholder on Yeah.
[3:34:08] Until your next meeting. Let's
[3:34:09] Do that.
[3:34:10] Okay. And maybe we can, you know,
[3:34:15] we're gonna have our goals meeting next week so we'll see
[3:34:18] how many things are on our plate for the fall
[3:34:21] and once we understand that kind of,
[3:34:24] we can game it out, see if there's enough time.
[3:34:28] But that seems pretty tight. I'd hate to
[3:34:32] To the hearing.
[3:34:33] It feels like you're better fit, but if you want hear it.
[3:34:36] Yeah.
[3:34:40] The next article on the top page seven is the Home Rule
[3:34:44] that Miles just presented to the board
[3:34:46] and it sounds like support to move forward with that.
[3:34:49] So we'll keep that on.
[3:34:51] Deputy time manager director finance is working on potential
[3:34:55] recommendations for real estate tax exemptions.
[3:34:58] So adjustments to our existing programs
[3:35:01] to expand eligibility.
[3:35:04] Next steps on that would be he'll, he will be presenting
[3:35:08] to the board of assessors
[3:35:09] and getting their feedback on that.
[3:35:11] So my plan for the select board is to wait
[3:35:14] for those conversations so then it can be presented
[3:35:16] to you in full with that feedback.
[3:35:19] There's also an abatement related to affordable housing.
[3:35:24] So like if residents rent a unit
[3:35:29] to someone who is, you know, below a certain income level
[3:35:33] that a homeowner is eligible for residential abatement,
[3:35:36] I maybe we can discuss it during the, the board hearing.
[3:35:40] I I, if we wanted to opt in, it would have
[3:35:42] to be on town meeting timing would have to approve it.
[3:35:46] Okay. I'll ask do you To follow up. Okay.
[3:35:52] Okay. And there are two
[3:35:57] articles related to changes to revolving funds.
[3:35:59] I think we discussed briefly at your last meeting.
[3:36:02] One to just move the park
[3:36:04] and rec revolving fund to a more modern, modern structure
[3:36:08] and to replace our current revolving fund
[3:36:12] for traveling meals to replace it
[3:36:15] with a community nutrition revolving fund
[3:36:17] that would just allow it for a broader set of purposes
[3:36:20] around food, food insecurity and community nutrition
[3:36:24] For the park and record revolving fund, does
[3:36:26] that eliminate the existing revolving fund?
[3:36:31] Yes, that's the intent. That's yes.
[3:36:33] And the fund For the, for the community nutrition,
[3:36:39] are we doing this in anticipation of Beth Israel not
[3:36:44] participating in that program or is this
[3:36:45] an expansion of the program?
[3:36:48] So it is not driven by our current arrangement
[3:36:52] with BID Needham.
[3:36:54] The Public Health Division
[3:36:56] and Aging Services has broadly been working on thinking
[3:37:00] about expanded community nutrition programs.
[3:37:03] A part of that would be if we ever needed
[3:37:05] to take on the services that BID Needham provides for us,
[3:37:08] how could we or would we,
[3:37:10] but it's, the motivation
[3:37:12] for this is I think more, more broad.
[3:37:14] We'll have the updated kitchen at the center at the heights
[3:37:17] after construction's completed this year
[3:37:21] and we'll be able to do a lot more offerings in-house.
[3:37:25] So this revolving fund is a way to
[3:37:29] use the existing revolving fund mechanism more broadly.
[3:37:32] I think it'd be great to have a presentation on this
[3:37:34] and learn more about the program.
[3:37:36] Yep. Great.
[3:37:37] I'm actually on the board of the traveling meals
[3:37:39] and we get a lot of requests
[3:37:40] besides just getting the meals delivered
[3:37:43] for things like can, can we bring someone to Cath
[3:37:46] and provide them with breakfast to do things like that.
[3:37:48] So I think it is basically the expansion of,
[3:37:51] of, of the program.
[3:37:52] So when we get requests, you know,
[3:37:55] we will be able to do more things.
[3:38:00] Great. And the last two
[3:38:05] placeholders are takings related to
[3:38:10] infrastructure projects that you've heard from DPW about.
[3:38:15] The first is we have an intersection improvement
[3:38:18] project at Great Plain and Central.
[3:38:20] A voluntary taking would be
[3:38:22] required at the Presbyterian church.
[3:38:25] DPW is in touch with the church
[3:38:27] and they have expressed their willingness to donate the land
[3:38:31] for the improvements that are needed.
[3:38:33] But this would require town meeting action.
[3:38:35] And from the presentation you just heard that
[3:38:40] an easement needed at Dedham Ave and South Street
[3:38:46] Can we, is the design for great plan
[3:38:49] and central at a stage where it's ready for a presentation?
[3:38:52] Yeah, I can follow up with DPW director on that. Okay.
[3:39:02] And I do wanna note that I had mentioned this at your
[3:39:05] previous meeting, but one of the articles
[3:39:07] that you do not see on here is design funds requested
[3:39:10] for Great Plain Avenue improvements that you voted earlier.
[3:39:15] My recommendation is to have that be for the May 27th
[3:39:20] town meeting, given the level of engagement, interest number
[3:39:25] of stakeholders in that project.
[3:39:26] If we defer the article to May,
[3:39:29] that would allow our staff team to be able
[3:39:32] to map out the full design process, bring the process
[3:39:35] to the board to make sure that we are in agreement,
[3:39:38] have the same expectations about how
[3:39:40] that design process would run, what community engagement
[3:39:43] or stakeholder engagement would look like, what staff
[3:39:46] and our technical expertise
[3:39:47] and consultants would be working on.
[3:39:50] And then we'd be able to have that presented
[3:39:53] to the board in advance of Maytown meeting
[3:39:55] when the design funds are requested, we'd be able
[3:39:58] to answer a lot of questions that I anticipate we,
[3:40:00] we would get from town meeting members.
[3:40:03] Yep. Sounds reasonable.
[3:40:09] Madam Chair, I move the board vote to call for
[3:40:11] and open the warrant
[3:40:13] for the October 19th, 2026 special town meeting.
[3:40:16] Second.
[3:40:18] Okay. Kathy? Yes. Bill?
[3:40:23] Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin. Aye. Can I vote? Yes.
[3:40:29] Great. Next
[3:40:35] The Commissioner of trust funds will have a vacancy
[3:40:38] at the end of August and I will be brief
[3:40:41] and I think maybe turn it over to the vice chair just
[3:40:44] to know procedurally the town clerk
[3:40:48] provided the select board
[3:40:49] with a letter outlining the available options
[3:40:52] to the board relative to filling that position by a joint
[3:40:57] appointment process with the commissioner of trust funds
[3:40:59] or via special election.
[3:41:01] The commission did send a letter
[3:41:03] to the board expressing their interest in participating in a
[3:41:05] joint appointment process.
[3:41:07] And I will turn it over
[3:41:09] 'cause I think those conversations are underway.
[3:41:11] Thank you. So I, we, the chair
[3:41:15] of the Commissioner of Trust Hunts
[3:41:17] and I have a meeting scheduled tomorrow night
[3:41:20] in anticipation that the board wants
[3:41:22] to move ahead with appointing.
[3:41:24] If not, we can cancel that meeting.
[3:41:26] But the, the chair has indicated that she wishes to fill it
[3:41:31] as quickly as possible.
[3:41:33] I think we could probably accommodate that.
[3:41:35] I would propose a, a similar process as the Park
[3:41:40] and Rec commission where we notice it
[3:41:42] for two consecutive weeks
[3:41:44] and then I think that would allow us time to
[3:41:49] hold an appointment with a, with a joint appointment
[3:41:53] with both boards during our regular September 22nd
[3:41:56] meeting if that works.
[3:41:59] Sounds fine. Okay.
[3:42:03] Okay, great. Okay,
[3:42:09] Lastly town manager report.
[3:42:11] I just wanna know, we have had two notable retirements
[3:42:15] of DPW foreman this summer.
[3:42:17] So I just wanna share a little bit about them particularly
[3:42:19] because they may be a little bit more
[3:42:21] behind the scenes for some folks.
[3:42:23] They're well known in our eyes.
[3:42:25] But Doug Manje retired on June 30th.
[3:42:29] He's a well recognized member
[3:42:31] of our parks and forestry division.
[3:42:33] He was instrumental in kind of all of the operations of
[3:42:36] that division and ensuring
[3:42:37] that our fields were are safe and beautiful.
[3:42:40] And I'd say particularly in, in talking with the team,
[3:42:44] our most visible events where people really get to access
[3:42:47] and work be in our
[3:42:51] park spaces July 3rd and fourth events
[3:42:54] and the Memorial Day tournament being those two big ones,
[3:42:58] he was instrumental and had a lot of knowledge.
[3:43:02] And I will also note he was our irrigation expert
[3:43:06] and kept the town systems going over the years.
[3:43:09] So I think, you know, we're, we have a lot of systems
[3:43:11] that are different and hand run
[3:43:13] and require the expertise of someone like Doug.
[3:43:18] Jerry Sharp retired on August 7th
[3:43:20] and he is the lead
[3:43:22] of the water sewer drains construction crew.
[3:43:25] They are responsible for responding in all emergencies to
[3:43:30] the distribution systems that we have.
[3:43:32] And this is core life health safety work.
[3:43:35] They Jerry also, in addition to responding to emergencies
[3:43:40] because we have the talent in house, he was able
[3:43:42] with his crew to do a lot of proactive projects
[3:43:45] that are small, smaller in nature.
[3:43:47] So a smaller dia, dia diameter main replacement
[3:43:51] and other utility projects that we didn't have to go
[3:43:55] contract out because we had the
[3:43:56] expertise and the talent in-house.
[3:43:58] So over the years Jerry has trained dozens
[3:44:01] of staff members on how to manage our distribution systems
[3:44:05] and respond to emergencies.
[3:44:06] And this is to the benefit
[3:44:07] of every single person in Needham
[3:44:10] businesses residents alike.
[3:44:11] So they both will be missed
[3:44:13] and we thank them very much for their service. So
[3:44:16] Do we send them a appreciation letter
[3:44:18] like we do for committee members?
[3:44:20] I don't know why we wouldn't for them.
[3:44:22] You know, we haven't had a formal
[3:44:24] System.
[3:44:25] We talked, we talk about that a lot
[3:44:26] with I think that's a great idea.
[3:44:27] Can we formalize? Yeah. Yeah.
[3:44:30] I mean I know both of them
[3:44:31] and they both were unbelievable.
[3:44:32] Yeah. You know, so I think they would
[3:44:35] appreciate something like that too.
[3:44:36] Yep. I mean personally,
[3:44:38] but I think it would be better coming from,
[3:44:41] Yeah. Excellent.
[3:44:43] Congratulations. Both. That's it.
[3:44:48] Okay. So thank you.
[3:44:52] And the next thing is committee reports expect this to be
[3:44:57] reasonably quick 'cause it's a summer.
[3:44:59] We'll start with Kathy. No reports.
[3:45:05] Excellent. Thank you Bill.
[3:45:07] I was lucky enough to go to the Needham night out
[3:45:09] that the Needham Police sponsored last week.
[3:45:11] And it, it was a great event.
[3:45:13] It was great to see so many families there,
[3:45:14] but one of the best things was see how many
[3:45:16] families had repeated.
[3:45:19] They came here after year
[3:45:20] and there was a picture on social media
[3:45:22] of Eddie Tis on his police, the motorcycle.
[3:45:25] And they had brought a picture of when they came nine years
[3:45:27] ago with their child and they came back with that child
[3:45:30] and put 'em on the motorcycle.
[3:45:31] We took it. So it was great to we to see them back there.
[3:45:34] And then Kevin and I attended the Purple Heart
[3:45:38] event the last Friday evening.
[3:45:40] Kevin did a great job
[3:45:41] and I wish we could get more publicity about it,
[3:45:43] get more people there, but we'll that's for another day.
[3:45:47] Good. Great. Thank you. Josh.
[3:45:50] We talked about Commissioner of Trust funds.
[3:45:51] Just wanted to give an update on Park and Rec.
[3:45:54] The interviews will be conducted
[3:45:55] during their regular meeting on August 24th.
[3:46:00] I don't believe that that at 7:00 PM I don't believe
[3:46:02] the location has been announced.
[3:46:05] Park Rosemary Recreational complex multi-purpose room.
[3:46:08] Thank you. Rosemary Recreational. Okay, perfect.
[3:46:11] So ever welcome to,
[3:46:13] to watch including members of Psych board.
[3:46:14] Yeah. And can you remind us how many candidates?
[3:46:17] I believe eight. That's great. Great. Kevin?
[3:46:21] Same. I went to the National Night out on the
[3:46:24] fourth and it was, it was great.
[3:46:26] It was, it was good to see me police
[3:46:29] and do you know, community policing and outreach
[3:46:32] and then the purple head ceremony too. It
[3:46:34] Was great.
[3:46:35] It was actually very nice.
[3:46:37] Excellent. And I'll just say one thing today was the,
[3:46:41] the Red Cross blood drive hosted by the town,
[3:46:45] which is usually held cath caths under construction.
[3:46:47] So it was up in beautiful powers hall
[3:46:50] and really just a spectacular room to do anything in,
[3:46:53] including give blood.
[3:46:55] And so if you too wanna give blood, you can do
[3:46:58] so on November 12th, which is their next, their next
[3:47:03] date in Power Hall for that blood drive. All right.
[3:47:07] Move we adjourn. Second.
[3:47:10] Excellent. Kathy? Yes. Bill? Yes.
[3:47:16] Josh? Yes. Kevin, don't start.
[3:47:18] Yes. And the chair votes. Yes. Thank you.
[3:47:21] And goodnight.