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Thank you. I will call the Newcastle County Personnel Subcommittee meeting to order. It's 3 p.m. on January 20th.

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Present are Councilperson Smiley, Cartier, Durham, Carter, Hollands, Valerie George.

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On line I see Kinect Go and Tackett and Mr. Street's picture is there, I don't actually

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see him.

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But if anybody comes on beyond that.

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I'm here.

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Oh, thank you.

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He's here.

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Can I have approval of the minutes from the 10, 21, 25 percent?

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Official approval is posted.

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Second.

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Second.

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All in favor?

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Aye.

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Any opposed?

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So this is a dual-purpose meeting today.

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We've been going through the handbook chapters.

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We are on Chapter 7.

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Chapter 7 is a fairly long chapter,

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and I just handed out, for those of you that are here,

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a synopsis of each section of that chapter.

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Council Migliore.

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Okay, just scratch everything I just said.

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Not long.

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What could I say?

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Right.

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Okay.

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I'm going to go through it, but I'm not going to read it to you.

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I'm just going to take it off of the synopsis, and if there's any questions, Counsel to Counsel

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Migliore is here, and he will help to answer those.

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You should also have a copy of Chapter 7 with you.

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All right.

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So we will go through payout of sick leave.

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Your payout is divided into two areas.

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One is if you retire or involuntary separation.

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That would be if your council person, for our AIDS, if your council person is off,

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or I'm sorry, if the council person, if you lose the count or you retire,

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the council person comes under this upon resignation.

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I would presume that would go for all of us.

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So it goes through how they do their calculation,

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how many work days you will be paid for, and the definitions for the payout that come under this would be personal injury, illness, medical, dental, optical, quarantine, intensive care of a family member.

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And upon resignation, your paid leave days change.

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change.

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And we're going to leave FLMA to go ahead with that. Okay, so FLMA, you can be

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granted up to 12 work weeks of unpaid leave during a 12 month period. It gives you the

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number of days that if this is foreseeable that you should give notice through the clerk.

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It talks about being able to use other accrued pay leaves such as workers comp, depending on the situation,

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and that you need to provide medical documentation to the clerk.

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You may elect to continue health care during FLA, and with some exceptions, it's titled to return the same or equivalent position upon return.

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That is not guaranteed, but they will obviously try to come as close as they can to the position that you left.

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For military, for full or limited term employees, we would move over to personnel policy 3.13.

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For jury duty, it's a leave of absence with pay, and you are not required to remit jury fees.

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For bereavement, it comes in immediate family and extended family.

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So for immediate family, you would get four days of paid for the death of an immediate family member.

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And those are specified as spouse, children, siblings, parents, and in-laws.

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And for the extended family, you get one day for a family member.

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and that would be first cousin, uncle, aunt, grandparents, brother, sister-in-law, nephews

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and nieces.

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So for unpaid personal leave, those are emergencies not covered by other policies.

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It's approved through your supervisor and the clerk.

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You request it in writing if that is up to 60 days in advance, if it's something

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that you know ahead of time.

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And a reasonable effort will be to reinstate the employee to the original or comparable position.

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But reinstatement, again, is not guaranteed.

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If you need an extension, those extensions can be granted through the clerk.

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For a community service leave, an employee is entitled to 21 hours of leave each fiscal year.

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And the purpose of that is to assist nonprofit organizations.

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and the authorization is the leave must be approved in advance from the council member or the clerk.

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So a leave of absence without pay may include non-work-related disability, military leave, personal reasons,

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and it can be granted for any period of time, not exceeding one year,

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and any extension would be subject to the council.

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The request would be submitted to the supervisory council member and the clerk with dates of

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approval and ending dates for under 30 days.

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The request for over 30 days needs council approval.

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Benefit status.

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So if you're taking a leave, an unpaid leave under 30 days, all employee benefits continue

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except employee will receive sick leave credits only for the months that the employee worked

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a complete month of service.

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If it's over 30-day leave, unpaid leave in excess of 30 days, the employee would be

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placed on non-active payroll status and benefits will be affected.

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And there is a benefits section at the end, I believe, that shows what the specific

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benefits are for each one of these categories.

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So for health insurance, the benefit will terminate effective in the first day of the month following the leave.

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So if you leave on the 15th, it's effective on the first.

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But if you leave on the first, the coverage ceases immediately.

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And for re-engagement, the benefit will be picked up on the first day of the next month following the employee's return to work.

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If the employee returns on the first day of the month, the benefit will be picked up immediately.

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and for continuation options, the employee may continue coverage under the group premium

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by making arrangements to pay for this coverage through the pensions and benefits section.

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For life insurance during unpaid leave in excess of 30 days,

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the benefit terminates immediately when the unpaid leave begins

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and the benefit resumes on the day the employee returns to work.

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For adjusted pension service date in excess of 30 days, the employee will not accrue service credit for pension benefits during the period of an unpaid leave.

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Upon re-engagement, the pension service date will be adjusted to reflect the length of the leave.

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For a sick day in excess of 30 days, no accumulation during that period of unpaid leave.

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For a vacation credit, the employee will not be credited for vacation vesting purposes for months or parts thereof of unpaid leave of absence.

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Upon re-engagement, vacation credit will be adjusted to reflect the length of absence.

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The anniversary date, the date will be adjusted forward to reflect the exact number of days of the employee's absence on unpaid leave.

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performance review date. Upon return, the employee's performance review date will

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be changed to a date exactly four months prior to the new anniversary date. Any

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performance review at or near that return date will be delayed for 30 days.

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Merit increases scheduled shortly after return will be delayed until a receipt

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of satisfactory evaluation. The holiday pay, there will be no holiday pay

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while on unpaid leave. If the first day of unpaid leave follows a holiday or if the last

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day of unpaid leave precedes a holiday, pay is at the discretion of the supervisory council

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member in consultation with the clerk. Early return from unpaid leave. Request

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for early return must be made no less than three weeks prior to the revised date of

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return. Decisions will be made by the supervisory council member in consultation with the

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who may consult with the Office of Human Resources.

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The clerk advises the employee of the decision.

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Extending paid leave?

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You can extend extension for no longer than one year in total unless approved by council.

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The request must be made no less than three weeks prior to the original date scheduled to return to work.

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Submission is made to the supervisory council member and the clerk who may consult with the Office of Human Resources.

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Clerk will advise the employee whether the request has been approved and the clerk notifies HR of that extension.

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Notification to HR on employees returning to work.

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HR adjusts the anniversary date, performance review, vacation service date and pension service date.

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HR notifies employee in writing of the changes to the affected dates.

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at the time of vacation, the vacation vesting,

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the clerk in collaboration with HR

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notifies the employee of the number of days of vacation.

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If days are less than what the employee would have received,

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if not on leave.

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Responsibility of employee,

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it's the responsibility of the employee

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to notify the pension and benefits section

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to reactivate terminated benefit coverage.

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And we, let's see, leave of absence

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to participate in political campaigns 30 days or less.

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A three-month unpaid leave may be granted during election years.

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You submit a request in writing to the supervisory council member and the clerk with the dates of the absence.

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Supervisory council and clerk determine recommendation to council.

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Council approves or disapproves the request.

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The clerk notifies in writing employee of the decision via letter including leave and returning date.

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Notice of unpaid status is reported to HR.

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Leave for less than 30 days does not need to change notice form.

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For less than 30 days, all employee benefits will continue except sick leave will not accumulate

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for any months in which the employee did not work the entire month.

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The employee will not be placed on non-active payroll status.

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If it's over 30 days, it follows all of the procedures for any other leave that's over 30 days.

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And the last page, the procedure for unpaid leaves in excess of 30 days, it is all spelt out in a synopsis in the last page.

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I don't think that I need to read it all for you because basically it's just reiteration of what we went through.

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Any questions?

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So I will take questions or Mike will take questions now, but

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he will and then the presentation

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will continue following that.

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So Mr. Koneko.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Madam Chair.

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That was a lot to get through, so I appreciate you agreeing that through us all.

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I want to ensure this is we're talking about just for county council employees, right?

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Yes.

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Okay. And then I would ask Mike, on the military leave policy,

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are we meeting the same standards that the state meets at the county level?

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I don't know the answer to that.

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I don't know the answer. Mike with the already council to council.

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I'm not certain that we align with what the state is.

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We do align with what Newcastle County is a whole under policy 3.13, but I can look into

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that though.

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Hey, I would just ask to make sure we take a look into that.

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We have lots of county employees obviously who are in the Delaware National Guard who

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are, you know, you know, so I just want to ensure that I've got some reachbacks.

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I'm still looking into this, that we're hitting the same leave policy the state

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of Delaware does for military members at this time.

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And if there's anything I can assist or help in that, please let me know.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Mike McLeory.

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Was there a particular issue that you had in mind, or were you just thinking generally

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about this?

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It was about the time of the days that they can take a military leave.

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I know it's been extended in certain states and I want to ensure per our last conversation

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that Newcastle County employees, not just county council employees, Newcastle County

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employees have the same military leave policies that have been being extended because obviously

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as you see our Delaware National Guard and our state national guards across the country

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have been being utilized a little more and I want to ensure that we have those

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protections in place.

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That's all.

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Okay, Mike McGuire, there is a process, and I'll look into this as it pertains to the

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state.

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But there is a process for the county generally that we've adopted under Rule 3.13, and it's

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bifurcated for 10 days or less or more than 10 days.

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So I'll get a copy of that to you, and then I'll also look at what the state provides

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for.

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Right.

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And I think that we have to get a little more liberal at that.

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I think we have to provide more leave time for military members within our county government

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to be able to go on, you know, a month or longer status and still be paid by the county.

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So what we could talk about that more, but just something I want to raise.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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Any other questions from Councilmembers?

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Mr.

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I'm just curious, do we really still need this leave of absence for participation in political

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campaigns? If somebody wants to take a leave of action for personal reasons and do that,

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it seems to be covered. I don't know, it really matters. I mean, I'm certainly not going to

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have my legislative assistant taking a leave of absence to work on a campaign or anything.

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I don't know. I mean, it's not a big deal that's left there. I'm just wondering if

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to see what needs to be in there anymore.

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Mr. Smiley, I'm just sitting over here imagining

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the legislative assistant applying for three months to work for your opponent, and then

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when they lose, coming back to work.

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Let's consider the worst case scenario here.

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Just from a perspective, looking at it from the public, this is like a carryover from

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the old patronage system. I don't know that we even need it in our code anymore.

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And correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but if I'm going to take a leave for a campaign,

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it's going to be for somebody higher than where we are. You know, I mean, some people

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may want to go work for the president. Who knows.

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But they could do that under the personal reasons that are in the other one. I don't

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know that we need it in there. I mean, it's not the council. I just don't see

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a need for it.

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based on some of the things in the past with county officials

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outside of council.

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I think it's good to have just so to protect the employee

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if they're out there doing something

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and somebody's going to raise the issue on them.

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I just think it's a good cover for the employee.

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And they combine it onto the other days, too.

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I mean, I look at it there.

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I was a merit system employee for 30 years.

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So you could go three months three months three months. I would never ask. I think under the campaign you lose less

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And if you start going out farther than 30 days, then you fall into basically a whole different category of

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Unpaid leave. Yeah, and at that point Mike McGlory at that point you may not have your job secured

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Me put that here. It's allowed

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under the put the

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The leave for the politics you have allowed to leave for up to, I think it's 90 days, three months.

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Right, three months.

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Madam President.

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Mr. Hollins.

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I think it's necessary to have it in there because it's optional.

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And you have the Hatchack involved.

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There are people who may want to work for a political campaign outside of council,

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like a presidential campaign, as you mentioned.

233
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,240
Thank you.

234
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:54,520
And I personally believe that we need to have the division from campaign to anything else in your life that goes on.

235
00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:02,160
I think there are people out there who are going to try to blame anybody associated with

236
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a campaign for getting something from the government that the rest of them maybe don't.

237
00:18:08,860 --> 00:18:15,480
But I just think that we need to separate out campaign from everything else, just my

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personal opinion.

239
00:18:19,620 --> 00:18:22,380
It's okay, I just raised a question.

240
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Any other comments?

241
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:26,280
Do we have any public comment?

242
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:40,720
And seeing none, we will continue and Council to Council Migliori will take the rest of this.

243
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:43,780
Thank you, Madam Chair.

244
00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:47,880
The balance that we saved kind of the best for last.

245
00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:54,180
It was the change that Council authorized enacted in section 7.3 on page 25.

246
00:18:54,180 --> 00:19:00,620
That's the Delaware Paid Family and Medical Leave, which is subject to state law,

247
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:04,940
Delaware State Law, and became effective at the beginning of this month in January 1.

248
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:11,280
And so in addition to the other benefits available under the handbook,

249
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employees may be entitled to leave under what's referred to as the Healthy Delaware Families Act.

250
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:37,240
Benefits under the policy run concurrently with the family medical leave, which is the federal law, where applicable, and may also run concurrently, in other words, running at the same time with sick leave and or vacation leave consistent with applicable law.

251
00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:44,200
To be eligible for benefits under the policy, an employee must have been employed by the county for 12 months,

252
00:19:44,820 --> 00:19:50,060
have worked 1,250 hours in the 12 months, immediately preceding the first day of leave,

253
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and must be seeking leave for a covered purpose.

254
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And those covered purposes are fourfold.

255
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One is recovery and bonding, following the birth adoption or fostering of a child.

256
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:12,200
Second is time off to care for a child, spouse or parent due to the serious health condition of one of them.

257
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,180
Third is time off to recover from the team member's own serious health condition.

258
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:28,920
And fourthly, the following reason is qualified exigencies relating to the military deployment of a team member's child, spouse or parent.

259
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Individuals who qualify for paid leave under the policy may receive up to 80% of the regular

260
00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:45,560
weekly wages. Currently I believe the county has provided for coverage of that. Whether

261
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,060
or not that will be continued in the future remains to be seen, but I think for at least

262
00:20:50,060 --> 00:20:56,120
for the first year that's held. Things will play out. Additional information about

263
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Without Delaware-paid family and medical leave benefits, maybe you can get those from the

264
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Court's office.

265
00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:09,160
Employees wishing to obtain benefits under the policy also need to contact the Court's

266
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,040
office immediately upon becoming aware of the need for such leave.

267
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,860
In the event of any conflict between this policy and an insurance policy, the terms

268
00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:19,380
of the insurance policy will govern.

269
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Coordination of benefits.

270
00:21:21,980 --> 00:21:26,340
benefits. We're an employee eligible for both short-term disability benefits in Delaware

271
00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:32,140
paid family and medical leave. Both benefits run concurrently and the employee may receive

272
00:21:32,140 --> 00:21:38,200
income replacement from two sources. Similarly, employees are permitted to use a crude but

273
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:46,620
unused paid time off. So it's PTO, which is vacation time, sick days, cop time. And

274
00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:51,840
then we use that to supplement any benefits available under the policy. Under no circumstances,

275
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May an employee receive more than 100% of the regular weekly wage through any combination

276
00:21:57,940 --> 00:21:58,520
of sources?

277
00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:05,260
To the extent there's any conflict between our handbook and any insurance policies, again

278
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:09,020
the plan under the insurance policies is going to govern.

279
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:18,280
If you haven't seen the HR department distribute recently within the last two weeks an FAQ

280
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:29,500
which goes through questioning for the new policy and does a really a fantastic job in addressing a lot of questions.

281
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,820
I'll just go through a few of them.

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00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:36,220
So first, the Delaware Paid Family and Medical Leave, which is PFML for short,

283
00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:43,960
is a state-required program that helps employees replace a portion of their wages while they're out of work for the reasons we discussed.

284
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,060
Again, the PFML LA began January 1.

285
00:22:52,860 --> 00:22:57,560
One of the questions is, does PFML guarantee that I will keep my job when I return?

286
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:58,640
The answer is yes.

287
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:01,540
PFML includes job protection.

288
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,540
When it ends, you will be restored to the same or equivalent position with the equivalent

289
00:23:06,540 --> 00:23:08,820
pay benefits and working conditions.

290
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:17,080
An interesting question, how is PFML different from the Federal FMLA, which we've all become

291
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:17,860
accustomed to?

292
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,800
And the answer is, FMLA provides job protection, job protected leave only.

293
00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:25,100
It does not provide income replacement.

294
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:33,400
PFML provides partial income replacement plus job protection and benefit continuation.

295
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:38,660
Obviously, the employee, as we talked about, can supplement that 80 percent to get them

296
00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:40,600
to full 100%.

297
00:23:42,580 --> 00:23:44,600
We talked about who's eligible for PFML.

298
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Question do I have to use my own leave before using PFML?

299
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,360
Answers no.

300
00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:55,920
PFML does not require you to exhaust your own sick or vacation leave first.

301
00:23:56,580 --> 00:24:02,700
On an interim basis before PFML leave is approved, you may use sick or vacation leave

302
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:07,200
which will be reimbursed to your balance once the PFML leave is approved.

303
00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:14,600
As we talked about before, can you supplement the PFML to receive 100% of the pay?

304
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:15,680
Answer is yes.

305
00:24:15,820 --> 00:24:19,220
You may voluntarily supplement to get to your 100%.

306
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,280
Can it be used intermittently?

307
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,560
And the answer is yes.

308
00:24:24,820 --> 00:24:30,340
It may be taken as continuous leave, one block of days or weeks, or intermittent

309
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:32,080
leave, which is separate days.

310
00:24:39,490 --> 00:24:43,510
When do PFML payments start and how often are they paid?

311
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:50,670
Under the Healthy Delaware Families Act, the first PFML payment is made within 30 days

312
00:24:50,670 --> 00:24:54,170
after your claim is filed, and then at least once every two weeks.

313
00:24:57,500 --> 00:24:58,860
What if a person doesn't

314
00:24:58,860 --> 00:25:05,100
use all of their approved PFML time? Any unused amount remains available within the

315
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:09,200
period, subject to eligibility and medical certification requirements.

316
00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:15,900
You can also use the sick leave bank work.

317
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,920
It's a separate benefit, as we know, that may provide up to six months at 100% pay

318
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,860
for your own catastrophic health condition.

319
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,200
If you have two plus years of service, you're an active sick leave bank member

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00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,080
and you exhaust all paid leave.

321
00:25:31,620 --> 00:25:35,020
And in addition to that, you're approved for a two-week sick leave extension.

322
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:41,400
Your condition meets the applicable medical definition, and your request is approved through the eligibility process.

323
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:48,750
Will the person continue to earn personal leave accrual while on PFML?

324
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:50,130
The answer is yes.

325
00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:55,730
While the person is on approved leave, the personal leave will continue to accrue.

326
00:25:56,930 --> 00:26:04,370
And then perhaps in addition to all the legal part that's very important, the factual piece, how does a person file the claim?

327
00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:13,590
I think part of that's being worked through, but if possible, they start the PFML final

328
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:16,430
process 30 days before the lead begins.

329
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:20,950
Nellie and I were talking about that before.

330
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:26,150
Nellie, I don't know if she's on, but if she wants to provide any information regarding

331
00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:27,010
the actual process.

332
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,400
Nellie, are you?

333
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:31,820
I am.

334
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:32,440
Can you hear me?

335
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Yes.

336
00:26:33,660 --> 00:26:34,760
Sorry to put you on the spot.

337
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:41,760
No that's okay. So the process right now is that the and this form was also sent

338
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:48,000
out in that email which will refer to everybody but the employee submits a

339
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,400
form to the state program and their eligibility is determined that way and

340
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:59,240
then once the eligibility is provided we would help them through the county

341
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,400
process at that point.

342
00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:05,720
So basically it's the state that makes the decision

343
00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:14,520
correct about eligibility correct and I believe the employee submits like any

344
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:21,200
doctors notes that they would have that type of thing and

345
00:27:23,670 --> 00:27:24,230
is this a little

346
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:31,350
different than what we had previously is this a more expanded process my

347
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:36,970
understanding is that this leave is paid for our process previously was that

348
00:27:36,970 --> 00:27:43,570
But those who were going out would file FMLA, but they would use their accrued sick and

349
00:27:43,570 --> 00:27:46,470
or vacation time while they were out.

350
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:53,210
But this is the family medical leave, but the paid leave that now the county is paying.

351
00:27:53,590 --> 00:28:00,250
So as Mike stated, for certain circumstances it pays 100%, but others it's 80%, but you

352
00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:04,070
can supplement with the leave that you have accrued.

353
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:05,830
Okay. Do you have more?

354
00:28:06,610 --> 00:28:09,150
Sure. One final thing, I guess.

355
00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:10,070
Four questions.

356
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:12,510
The Mike McGlory Council.

357
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:20,390
When Nellie was referring to the request form that got submitted to the county,

358
00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:22,110
and I think they work in conjunction with the state,

359
00:28:22,450 --> 00:28:25,290
that was part of the packet that HR sent around a couple weeks ago.

360
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:29,890
So it provides something tangible.

361
00:28:30,050 --> 00:28:32,170
You can take a look at it and get a better understanding of exactly

362
00:28:32,170 --> 00:28:36,870
what would be required for somebody who's going to submit for PFML.

363
00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:46,080
So first the state has to confirm eligibility and basically what the county process is to

364
00:28:46,660 --> 00:28:49,640
make sure that everything is logged correctly within our system.

365
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,060
Yes, I believe that's correct.

366
00:28:52,740 --> 00:28:53,240
Janet?

367
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:53,900
Yeah.

368
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:54,300
Yeah.

369
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:02,180
So actually if say someone had to have like emergency surgery they wouldn't need the

370
00:29:02,180 --> 00:29:07,500
state to confirm their eligibility before they could go out. So that's what Mike was referring to,

371
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:13,620
they could use their accrued time. And then once they submitted the paperwork and the state

372
00:29:13,620 --> 00:29:19,620
confirmed eligibility, they could get that time back. Okay, so it's someone doesn't have to like,

373
00:29:20,420 --> 00:29:24,080
obviously there's going to be circumstances where you have to go out and you're probably

374
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,320
going to qualify and the county's probably going to be able to tell us, yes, they'll

375
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,220
probably be deemed eligible and then they can get that time back. So they don't have

376
00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:36,840
to wait for the state to say yes before they can use time.

377
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:38,660
Okay.

378
00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:41,380
Councilor McFadcher?

379
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:48,680
One second. So my presumption is that looking at how council works these days, that this

380
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:55,940
may have been more important before we had virtual, but this really in my mind is

381
00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:59,700
more important to the aides and the other employees of council.

382
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,920
It's probably true. I can't speak for you all, but it may be true.

383
00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:06,500
Okay. Mr. Canneco?

384
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:21,300
Yeah, so just so I'm clear, on the funding portion of this, we get approved by the state, and then the state is paying for it or is the county paying for it?

385
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:22,160
I just want to be clear.

386
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,020
No, the county is paying for it.

387
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:27,940
Up to 80%, I believe.

388
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,220
Okay, all right. Just want to clarify. Thank you. Any other questions from health

389
00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:42,980
members? This is just an FYI. They could decide to pass the costs on to the employees,

390
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:45,800
but they have decided not to do that for the first year.

391
00:30:49,670 --> 00:30:52,010
As far as coming out of our pay

392
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:59,790
checks, is that correct? Correct. An amount deemed that would fund the fund. Right. So,

393
00:30:59,790 --> 00:31:06,190
So small businesses or businesses right now, I believe, have already started that process

394
00:31:06,190 --> 00:31:09,230
where they're deducting more from each paycheck, correct?

395
00:31:10,090 --> 00:31:10,430
Correct.

396
00:31:10,570 --> 00:31:15,610
And what you're telling us is that the county and the state have not done that yet, but most

397
00:31:15,610 --> 00:31:17,690
likely will after following this first year.

398
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:22,170
I don't know about the state, I just know that the county has decided for this first

399
00:31:22,170 --> 00:31:23,650
year not to charge employees.

400
00:31:24,270 --> 00:31:24,590
Okay.

401
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:27,330
But all of this will be affected once that goes in.

402
00:31:28,090 --> 00:31:28,450
Correct.

403
00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:39,890
Okay, Mr. Smiley, I've had some discussion on this previously, so I'd just like to add that the county had to submit a plan to the state to get the approval to operate this way.

404
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:50,090
So the state's still, you know, the main one, but yeah, eventually, you know, just like bloom energy and everything else, you're going to see it coming out of your check.

405
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:53,350
Out of your check or in your building.

406
00:31:53,850 --> 00:31:54,130
Okay.

407
00:31:55,050 --> 00:31:55,570
Okay.

408
00:31:56,090 --> 00:31:56,950
Mr. McGlory.

409
00:31:57,390 --> 00:31:57,870
Thank you.

410
00:31:59,970 --> 00:32:05,070
I think it may be helpful, if everyone disagrees to let me know, but I think it may be helpful

411
00:32:05,070 --> 00:32:11,630
to distribute a copy of the FAQs as well as the form that someone would need to fill out

412
00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:12,570
to apply for it.

413
00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:15,890
And I'll place those in your mailboxes, or I'll email them around rather.

414
00:32:18,190 --> 00:32:21,630
Yeah, I think, well, at least I know it's in my email box, I don't know if everybody

415
00:32:21,630 --> 00:32:22,530
got it previously.

416
00:32:22,530 --> 00:32:24,890
Okay, that's wrong, but I'll make sure they do.

417
00:32:24,890 --> 00:32:28,470
Yeah, because the fact page is in there and I remember seeing the application.

418
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,090
Any other questions from council members?

419
00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:35,650
Any questions or comments online?

420
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,680
I see one member in the audience.

421
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,540
Did you want to have a comment?

422
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,120
Are you good?

423
00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:45,600
Okay.

424
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:46,380
Thank you.

425
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,440
All right.

426
00:32:51,580 --> 00:32:55,120
Moving on to the second phase of this meeting,

427
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,660
we have an ethics training.

428
00:32:58,100 --> 00:33:00,140
This is a mandatory ethics training.

429
00:33:00,140 --> 00:33:09,780
And we have Johanna Bishop from the Ethics Commission in the audience who will be coming up and giving us the training.

430
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,220
She told me before this meeting that she has shortened it some.

431
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,220
So as opposed to being the full hour, she's got it down to 45 minutes.

432
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,520
So none of us will starve to death tonight.

433
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:29,440
councilwoman yes and I've been on since 302 so I just want to make sure I'm

434
00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:36,260
since this is mandatory that's all thank you we've clocked you in you don't

435
00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:42,120
want to do it twice Joanna if you do you want to come this this side would be

436
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:50,400
and just state your name and your purpose and it is all yours I'm Johanna

437
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:56,060
Bishop. I am a long-standing ethics commissioner and I am flying solo here

438
00:33:56,060 --> 00:34:01,160
today to give the Newcastle County Council their ethics training, annual

439
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:07,940
mandatory ethics training. I will do my best to be entertaining and to get you

440
00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:12,680
involved in this ethics training so that the bottom line is we want you to

441
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,540
remember some of the important points and avoid the red flags so that you

442
00:34:17,540 --> 00:34:22,040
get yourself the trouble and can I just say that she has trained for this

443
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,140
meeting through the last few weeks she's been hiking in Iceland so she is ready

444
00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:30,720
for anything you want to give her yes

445
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:37,300
you okay

446
00:34:40,660 --> 00:34:44,900
do you need a break now I

447
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:50,980
think they're good you're good just sitting there okay this is a Mac book

448
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:52,400
This is going to be interesting.

449
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,080
Are you done?

450
00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:56,100
Almost.

451
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:57,440
OK.

452
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,100
That laptop is for us.

453
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,420
Please tell her not to touch that.

454
00:35:00,420 --> 00:35:01,740
I have a technology challenge.

455
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,740
You can't use that one.

456
00:35:03,820 --> 00:35:04,960
I brought my own laptop.

457
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:06,920
If somebody can help me hook it up.

458
00:35:08,460 --> 00:35:09,820
You can use that side.

459
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:11,080
Yeah.

460
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,880
And if you want to, is Nellie still on?

461
00:35:15,340 --> 00:35:15,780
Nellie can.

462
00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:18,480
So she just needs to log on to the Zoom.

463
00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:20,540
And then we can promote her as a panelist

464
00:35:20,540 --> 00:35:21,580
and she can share screen.

465
00:35:22,220 --> 00:35:22,320
Okay.

466
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,000
So if you go to your laptop and log on through Zoom.

467
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,660
What's her email address?

468
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,020
I can, if you want to,

469
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,540
does she have a county email address?

470
00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:37,700
I can email her the link.

471
00:35:38,060 --> 00:35:40,320
It's outofjailatethics.com.

472
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:41,760
Go Hannah.

473
00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:45,290
Use this one.

474
00:35:46,050 --> 00:35:47,130
Where she can email me,

475
00:35:57,100 --> 00:36:01,400
I'm sorry when I left the chamber I heard something about shorter time 45

476
00:36:05,620 --> 00:36:06,180
minutes

477
00:36:10,180 --> 00:36:14,340
well if anybody needs a break now's the time to do it then I got the three minute

478
00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:14,720
the timer.

479
00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:38,060
What is

480
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,900
your county way of getting online? I can't get my V to be on to work

481
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:49,180
here.

482
00:36:52,370 --> 00:36:59,450
Can you do it from your machine? You might jump drive if you want to do this.

483
00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:00,730
That might be easiest

484
00:37:02,830 --> 00:37:05,350
You mean loan or give because I'll take it

485
00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:14,410
The last time I had the fruit

486
00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:41,310
I thought he had a breathing tube, he talked about a breathing tube, or at least a vince.

487
00:37:42,970 --> 00:37:44,530
No, that's my understanding.

488
00:37:45,210 --> 00:37:47,830
That's probably right, so I don't think he would be talking as clearly as he did.

489
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:58,140
If it really gets too hot, we could open the door.

490
00:37:58,620 --> 00:38:01,320
You don't realize how hot it is to walk out there and come back here.

491
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:01,500
Yeah.

492
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:02,140
I

493
00:38:07,450 --> 00:38:12,510
don't hear any complaining when there's icicles from the ceiling next time.

494
00:38:13,730 --> 00:38:14,790
Okay, any of it?

495
00:38:15,590 --> 00:38:21,850
It's 2026 New Council County Council.

496
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:25,650
You can just download it to your computer.

497
00:38:26,970 --> 00:38:28,350
So there must be a difference.

498
00:38:30,110 --> 00:38:32,630
You could review it on your own time.

499
00:38:33,490 --> 00:38:37,470
Oh yeah, I'd love a little late night, early morning reading.

500
00:38:37,630 --> 00:38:39,690
Okay, it's the 2026 NCC Ethics Training.

501
00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:40,970
Yep, that's the one.

502
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,420
Let me do it in slide show mode here.

503
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,400
Okay, Nellie, she's going to be on my account.

504
00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:02,380
Can you see me?

505
00:39:20,070 --> 00:39:21,130
You're up on mine.

506
00:39:21,790 --> 00:39:22,270
There it is.

507
00:39:22,450 --> 00:39:22,770
Okay.

508
00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:25,170
Oh, wonderful.

509
00:39:25,550 --> 00:39:26,010
You're a genius.

510
00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:26,290
Yes.

511
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:29,410
Where's my delete button?

512
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:31,650
Thank you, Councilman.

513
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:34,630
It's all about how to win friends and influence people.

514
00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:37,650
It's a presentation I did with my college students

515
00:39:37,650 --> 00:39:38,990
the other day because you know what?

516
00:39:39,350 --> 00:39:41,150
Nobody knows how to talk to each other anymore

517
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:44,630
ever since the pandemic, if you stop and think about it.

518
00:39:44,650 --> 00:39:46,170
OK, ethics training.

519
00:39:46,570 --> 00:39:47,590
Let's get into this, people.

520
00:39:50,610 --> 00:39:52,270
OK, mandatory training.

521
00:39:53,570 --> 00:39:54,750
You've been through this before.

522
00:39:55,830 --> 00:39:57,670
So today, say

523
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,900
here, why can't we not move this forward,

524
00:40:13,860 --> 00:40:14,820
Councilman George?

525
00:40:20,260 --> 00:40:27,020
Yeah, I'm trying to get to the bottom here, but it's covered up by this other stuff.

526
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:29,540
You've got all of this. I'm going to get rid of us.

527
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:33,820
Do you want to just stay here and be my assistant? This will be wonderful.

528
00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:36,140
Okay. How about that?

529
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:37,640
There you go.

530
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,800
Okay. So here's what I'm going to talk about.

531
00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:40,360
Here's what

532
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:46,180
I'm going to talk about just briefly.

533
00:40:47,220 --> 00:40:50,540
Since it's a one-hour session, we're going to try to do this and lessen that.

534
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:55,600
We're going to review the ethics code and explain the potential pitfalls

535
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:02,240
and then remind you of the things that you're obligated to for your citizens who elected you, right?

536
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:06,560
Because one of the obligations that you have, you have people who elected you

537
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,880
you made promises to but on the other hand when you get into office as you

538
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,520
will know because I'm looking around the room and you're all experienced people

539
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:23,220
there's some people online that I don't know who I don't know and you get into

540
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:28,160
the reality of the situation and you think oh holy cow I made some promises

541
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,800
and I am not so sure that I can really keep those promises that's the

542
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:38,380
reality of office. Do I have that right? Yes, probably pretty much. Okay, next slide.

543
00:41:40,180 --> 00:41:45,900
So, what do we do? We're going to be talking about ethical values in a

544
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:51,360
democratic society. This is why we're doing what we're doing. Public service is a

545
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:57,840
public trust. We transparency, accountability, stewardship. You know, this is

546
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:04,820
democracy, right? Democracy is important. And to keep that democracy, we all have to

547
00:42:04,820 --> 00:42:10,260
do our part. Because if we don't do our part, we can already see pretty much in the world

548
00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:16,600
what's happening today what happens. Without being political, I won't go there. But as

549
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:24,140
the Newcastle County Commissioner and Councilperson, you know that you have to be transparent

550
00:42:24,140 --> 00:42:30,320
with your people. You have to understand that you have to file your statement of financial interest.

551
00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:36,660
You have to understand that you are limited in gifts and you have to have full disclosure of any

552
00:42:36,660 --> 00:42:41,500
gifts. And you have to practice ethical decision making. Next slide.

553
00:42:44,370 --> 00:42:45,430
So where do you find the

554
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:54,550
ethics code? Well the ethics code is right there where that file path is. You can also find

555
00:42:54,550 --> 00:43:00,330
that the Newcastle County Ethics Commission has its own website. So there's

556
00:43:00,330 --> 00:43:04,890
part of Newcastle County on the whole that talks about the Ethics Commission

557
00:43:04,890 --> 00:43:08,870
but the Ethics Commission also has its own website. Next slide.

558
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:11,900
So the Ethics

559
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:18,240
Code. What does the Ethics Code say? The Ethics Code really talks about

560
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:25,200
public trust. It talks about what you are prohibited from doing and it

561
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,220
prohibits conflicts of interest.

562
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,560
And this is the gray fuzzy wuzzy one.

563
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,260
It's the appearance of impropriety.

564
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,320
And Judge Toliver, Charles Toliver, always says something

565
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,740
that I really, really like.

566
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:44,180
And he says, it's all about what would your mother think

567
00:43:44,180 --> 00:43:47,020
if they saw the headlines in the news journals?

568
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,660
So keep that in mind, right?

569
00:43:50,540 --> 00:43:53,660
If what you're doing, if you have a question about that,

570
00:43:53,660 --> 00:43:57,580
Would it make a headline that your mother wouldn't want to read?

571
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:03,580
You're all mature grown-up people. I don't think you're there anymore, right?

572
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:07,380
So that's about the ethics code. Next slide.

573
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,060
What are the major functions of the Ethics Commission?

574
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:16,960
I'm going to see how many people really want to participate.

575
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,020
So who would like to read this slide for us?

576
00:44:21,980 --> 00:44:23,380
Do we have any volunteers?

577
00:44:23,380 --> 00:44:25,720
I can read it.

578
00:44:26,220 --> 00:44:26,440
Great.

579
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,300
Not close enough with or without glasses.

580
00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:30,600
There you go.

581
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,280
Provides formal and informal advice to county officials and employees.

582
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,740
Provides information about the ethics code and how it applies.

583
00:44:40,460 --> 00:44:43,100
Maintains files of financial disclosure forms.

584
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,180
Enforces the ethics code when violations are proven.

585
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,500
That's pretty straightforward, right?

586
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:50,520
Any questions about that?

587
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:52,960
There's nothing new here.

588
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,140
Nothing that you haven't already heard.

589
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:56,260
Okay.

590
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,720
Basically, what you know is that we have seven commissioners on the ethics commission.

591
00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:11,240
Four of them are appointed by people like yourself, and three of them are appointed by the county executive.

592
00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:18,700
So right now, we have one vacancy on the ethics commission, and that is a vacancy from the executive's office.

593
00:45:19,780 --> 00:45:27,520
Now, here's the deal. We have some county council vacancies coming up this year, including mine.

594
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:34,180
I am stepping down and the reason is because our terms are three-year terms

595
00:45:34,180 --> 00:45:42,420
and for a long long time until recent times we have said that after two three

596
00:45:42,420 --> 00:45:47,480
year terms we need to step down because it's important to organizational health

597
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:54,780
to have fresh new blood and new minds especially in ethics to come into

598
00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:57,120
to being, and that has not been happening.

599
00:45:57,940 --> 00:46:00,460
And when that happens, alliances form,

600
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:06,340
and then you develop a staid, dull organization.

601
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:08,980
I don't know of any other way to put it.

602
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:11,340
It happens not only in the Ethics Commission,

603
00:46:11,620 --> 00:46:14,880
it happens in any organization, business, industry,

604
00:46:14,980 --> 00:46:17,100
education, government, whatever.

605
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:21,440
So it is important to have that turnover.

606
00:46:22,540 --> 00:46:27,900
We are not in the business of screening people and appointing people.

607
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:31,120
That's your job. That's the executive's job.

608
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,880
What we can do, hopefully, if we do our job, is we can try to find our replacements.

609
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,640
I kind of recommend people to you.

610
00:46:40,140 --> 00:46:43,420
But you really need to put it out there to your constituents.

611
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,000
We have openings on the Ethics Commission.

612
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:52,320
And Councilman George asked me earlier, why should I ask anybody to sit on the ethics commission?

613
00:46:53,220 --> 00:47:03,060
I'm going to tell you, it is one of the most exciting offices and opportunities to serve in government that I can ever promote to somebody.

614
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:10,480
It is the one time that I always tell people when they say, well, what do you do as an ethics commissioner?

615
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,160
And I say, you know what?

616
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,680
I get to help hold the government accountable.

617
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:19,760
I get to help hold people honest.

618
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:21,980
And they sort of laugh and chuckle,

619
00:47:22,060 --> 00:47:23,320
and we have a good joke about that.

620
00:47:23,540 --> 00:47:24,300
But it's true.

621
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:27,940
And it is the one time you learn so much

622
00:47:27,940 --> 00:47:30,880
about the functioning of democracy and democracy at work.

623
00:47:31,540 --> 00:47:33,400
So I think you have to give this pitch

624
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,320
and really make it exciting for people

625
00:47:35,820 --> 00:47:36,900
because it is so true.

626
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,100
I have been a longstanding ethics commission.

627
00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:46,520
I stepped down for a couple of years. I was asked to come back, but it is time for new people to come in.

628
00:47:47,340 --> 00:47:52,100
So we have Mr. Bob Hicks, who's our chair this year. He's been our chair last year.

629
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:57,140
He's sitting right over there. He's been a great chair. Love Mr. Hicks as our chair.

630
00:47:57,780 --> 00:48:03,600
But we also have Sally Jensen, who's been a longstanding ethics commissioner.

631
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,620
We have Dr. Alan Zabak, Mr. George Thompson.

632
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:10,800
Who am I missing here?

633
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:14,460
We have, who am I missing, Bob?

634
00:48:15,940 --> 00:48:16,520
Okay.

635
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,600
So we have seven commissioners.

636
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,840
We are served by a part-time person, Ms. Allison Lewis.

637
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,140
She's a part-time Newcastle County employee.

638
00:48:25,980 --> 00:48:29,340
We use the services of Ms. Julie Sebring,

639
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,580
who is a contract part-time legal counsel.

640
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:41,880
And then we also have a part-time, well, not a unit part-time, but we use the contract services of an investigator when we need an investigator.

641
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,760
So that's how the ethics commission functions.

642
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,860
Okay. Next slide.

643
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,100
Yes. What we do is we are an independent bipartisan body.

644
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:55,460
We're never all one party.

645
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,280
We make sure that we're balanced between Democrats, Republicans, independents.

646
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:08,820
We investigate complaints and we enforce sanctions when needed and we issue advisory opinions.

647
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,860
So that's our basic function.

648
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:22,260
We're going to the next slide there. There we go.

649
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:30,440
So we prohibit conflicts of interest and the appearance of impropriety. That's the big one.

650
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:37,940
Usually, we find out about that when people file complaints or when something comes to

651
00:49:37,940 --> 00:49:38,920
us one way or another.

652
00:49:39,540 --> 00:49:43,300
We don't just initiate these investigations on our own.

653
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:48,820
We do require annual statements of financial interest.

654
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:51,880
You have to file a financial interest statement.

655
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:59,360
This is the season, by May 1st, when new people come in, usually within 90 days,

656
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,940
when new employees are hired, not all employees, but some employees, and they will hear from

657
00:50:04,940 --> 00:50:08,620
Alice and Lewis and be told that they have to file a statement of financial interest,

658
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,940
and all of this is enforced by the Ethics Commission, and it's enforced by the Ethics

659
00:50:13,940 --> 00:50:14,260
Code.

660
00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:16,140
Next slide.

661
00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:22,280
So, what's the function of a governmental ethics commission?

662
00:50:23,540 --> 00:50:30,400
This is something that I went to a governmental ethics textbook for, because I wanted us

663
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:38,240
to think about this. Why do we have this? Why do we do this? And I want a volunteer to

664
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:45,500
read this for us. I can do this. Councilor George is ready. Thank you. Government ethics

665
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:50,320
involves not only the reality of obligations and the underlying relationships, but also

666
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,320
the appearance of these obligations and relationships. Do you want me to read them all?

667
00:50:58,100 --> 00:50:58,280
Government

668
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,600
facilitate the handling of conflict situations.

669
00:51:01,460 --> 00:51:03,960
Government ethics programs provide training and advice

670
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,060
to further facilitate the handling of conflict situations.

671
00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:10,020
Government ethics programs also require financial

672
00:51:10,020 --> 00:51:12,600
and relationship disclosures which provide information

673
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,300
to help the public as well as officials

674
00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:17,500
better determine the conflicts if conflicts might exist

675
00:51:17,820 --> 00:51:20,200
so that they are more likely to be dealt with responsibly.

676
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:23,500
The principal goal of local government ethics programs

677
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:26,520
to further the public's trust in those

678
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:31,320
who govern their communities to put their personal interests aside in favor of the public interest.

679
00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:36,180
And without this trust, people tend not to participate in their government, even as voters,

680
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,320
and they feel as if their government was something apart from their community, an organization

681
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,740
designed to benefit its members rather than an organization that serves and manages

682
00:51:44,740 --> 00:51:45,320
the community.

683
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,780
So what is the one word in all of that language that stands out to you?

684
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:52,700
What's the one word that stands out?

685
00:51:54,300 --> 00:51:54,480
Trust.

686
00:51:55,380 --> 00:51:56,680
That's a big one, right?

687
00:51:58,100 --> 00:51:59,640
What happens when you lose that trust?

688
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,180
You can't get that trust back with just one action.

689
00:52:04,860 --> 00:52:08,100
You can't get that trust back with just one term.

690
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:14,940
You lose that trust and it's going to take a long time before you get that trust back.

691
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:18,600
So you have to think about what you're doing.

692
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:24,000
It's all about developing that public trust because at the same time you lose that

693
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,900
trust you're losing your voters. You all know that. I'm preaching to the choir

694
00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:34,520
here. But we need to say it because we need to hear it and we need to remind

695
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,040
ourselves.

696
00:52:38,490 --> 00:52:42,930
Statements of financial interest. Any questions about that? It's

697
00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:47,090
old hat to you. You know that you have to file that, right? Okay.

698
00:52:49,540 --> 00:52:49,960
If you have

699
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,680
any questions about statement of financial interest or if there's

700
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,860
something on there or you have trouble navigating that system, we have

701
00:52:55,860 --> 00:53:02,180
problems with that sometimes. Just contact Alison Lewis, you know, Councilman Cartier,

702
00:53:02,380 --> 00:53:08,280
right? Yes. You nodding, yes? I think the same thing, and I'll be calling. I've been doing

703
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,220
it so many years. I'll say, Alison, help me out here. So there's no shame in calling

704
00:53:12,220 --> 00:53:18,240
Alison, and she'd rather help you out and get it done. She's great that way. So conflicts

705
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:23,980
of interest. It's one of the many, many issues that confront all of you, confront

706
00:53:23,980 --> 00:53:30,100
not all of us, no matter what our jobs are, conflicts of interest.

707
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:38,680
They can be personnel interests, financial, family interests that overlap with your official

708
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:38,980
duties.

709
00:53:39,460 --> 00:53:45,740
Think about it, you were elected and then after you were elected, how many times did

710
00:53:45,740 --> 00:53:50,200
somebody come up to you and say, hey, now that you're elected, I really need help

711
00:53:50,200 --> 00:54:01,560
with and you're kind of thinking yeah well you know can I really do that yeah

712
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,740
you know we all have these questions I'm director of behavioral science

713
00:54:05,740 --> 00:54:11,420
programs at Wilmington University sometimes people come up to me and say

714
00:54:11,420 --> 00:54:17,140
hey you know the people who know me the people I've I've had interactions with

715
00:54:17,140 --> 00:54:21,440
because I'm involved in the community and they'll say you know my kid is

716
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,180
coming to school there. Can you help with this, that, or the other thing? You do your

717
00:54:26,180 --> 00:54:33,660
best, but you have to know your boundaries. You have to know your limits. All of this

718
00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:39,420
can lead to bias decision-making. That's what we have to watch out for is the bias decision-making.

719
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:44,440
We have to be aware of when we're putting ourselves in the effort to want to please

720
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:49,360
somebody else, in the effort to want to help somebody else. Let's face it, you're

721
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,560
You're not making a million dollars by serving in this public capacity, right?

722
00:54:54,540 --> 00:55:01,120
You are doing this because you felt compelled to do something in government to make the world

723
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:01,840
a better place.

724
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,980
That's why you're sitting in these seats or you're online right now, because you're

725
00:55:06,980 --> 00:55:07,600
good people.

726
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:14,100
You wanted to do this, but at the same time, there are going to be times when you put

727
00:55:14,100 --> 00:55:16,300
in that situation, you have to watch out for it.

728
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:24,920
Okay. Next slide. Conflicts of interest. Here's an example. Voting on zoning near

729
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:32,520
family-owned property. Anybody ever have that one? I see smiles, you don't have to

730
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:37,680
admit to it. What do you do? I mean, what do you do when you do that? I see a

731
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:42,500
lot of chuckles. Doesn't seem to be too uncommon. Next click.

732
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:45,320
Accepting

733
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:50,160
Consulting fees from a vendor with county contracts. Is that a red flag or not?

734
00:55:52,930 --> 00:55:53,430
Is it?

735
00:55:54,110 --> 00:55:56,490
Would you accept a consulting fee?

736
00:55:57,630 --> 00:56:01,350
From a vendor who has county contracts. Is that okay to do?

737
00:56:02,990 --> 00:56:04,770
Councilman Smiley you get an A today

738
00:56:05,470 --> 00:56:09,550
He says no, I can't do that like them then I'll take their money and get them that

739
00:56:12,330 --> 00:56:14,350
Okay, all right next click

740
00:56:16,210 --> 00:56:19,850
Overlapping campaign contributions and council decisions.

741
00:56:21,810 --> 00:56:23,350
Oh, okay.

742
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:26,630
Councilman George says, oh, she's mouthing something there.

743
00:56:26,990 --> 00:56:29,690
And she's taking her head no.

744
00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:31,690
So she's already saying this is not good.

745
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:32,730
Next slide.

746
00:56:35,230 --> 00:56:35,510
Okay.

747
00:56:35,770 --> 00:56:37,610
Let's go down a decision tree here.

748
00:56:38,010 --> 00:56:38,890
Conflict of interest.

749
00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:40,150
Okay.

750
00:56:42,490 --> 00:56:45,810
Are you involved in a decision, a transaction?

751
00:56:49,050 --> 00:56:51,410
or what's the next word for negotiation?

752
00:56:51,790 --> 00:56:53,310
For activity for the organization.

753
00:56:53,590 --> 00:56:54,090
There you go.

754
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:58,570
I have to attribute this wonderful flow chart to Ray Carr who couldn't be here today.

755
00:57:00,230 --> 00:57:01,830
So, start the flow chart.

756
00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:05,650
If the answer is no, then there's no conflict of interest.

757
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:08,050
However, what do we do if the answer is yes?

758
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:09,830
We go to the next slide.

759
00:57:10,550 --> 00:57:21,850
Do you or your immediate family member or close associate have a personal financial professional interest in this site?

760
00:57:22,550 --> 00:57:28,790
If there's no conflicts of interest, you end. If it's yes, we go to the next slide.

761
00:57:33,550 --> 00:57:35,390
Janet, do you want to read that one?

762
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:35,790
Sure.

763
00:57:37,110 --> 00:57:42,750
Could this interest reasonably influence or appear to influence your judgment or actions?

764
00:57:44,930 --> 00:57:46,050
And if it's no?

765
00:57:48,010 --> 00:57:48,930
Then it's done, right?

766
00:57:48,930 --> 00:57:49,310
It's done.

767
00:57:50,270 --> 00:57:51,630
What do we do if it's yes?

768
00:57:52,510 --> 00:57:53,950
We move to the next slide.

769
00:57:55,010 --> 00:57:55,910
She's got it.

770
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:57,430
Okay.

771
00:57:59,090 --> 00:58:01,490
So the next slide, I can't read it this.

772
00:58:01,610 --> 00:58:02,070
I'll read it.

773
00:58:02,070 --> 00:58:06,690
Is the interest prohibited by law, regulation, policy, or contract?

774
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:07,830
Okay.

775
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:11,150
So if it says yes, then what?

776
00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:14,900
Prohibited conflict of interest.

777
00:58:15,540 --> 00:58:16,680
Yeah, it's prohibited.

778
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,180
Immediate disclosure.

779
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,720
You recuse yourself or remove yourself.

780
00:58:24,340 --> 00:58:26,700
You turn it over to some sort of management.

781
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:28,740
I mean, who would you turn it over to?

782
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,500
Probably the Ethics Commission, right?

783
00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:39,480
a legal review and that would be the end. But if it's no, then what happens? If it's

784
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:47,560
no, can this conflict be effectively mitigated? If it's yes, it's a managed

785
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:52,960
conflict of interest, you disclose it in writing, your recusal from

786
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:59,740
decisions, independent review, you put in safeguards, ongoing monitoring, and

787
00:58:59,740 --> 00:59:00,960
And that's the end of that story.

788
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:02,420
So there are ways to manage this.

789
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:03,820
Councilman Smiley.

790
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:09,020
One thing that we've run into, not a lot, just a couple of times over the years that

791
00:59:09,020 --> 00:59:13,840
we have addressed it as a council, a couple of things that we've run into a couple of

792
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,960
times here on council over the years, and we've addressed it as a council, is some

793
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:22,100
people don't realize when you recuse yourself, you're not only recusing yourselves from

794
00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:26,700
voting, you're not to be in the discussion part of it, either, to say it to influence.

795
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:30,580
Some people think when they're recusing, you're just recusing from the vote.

796
00:59:31,100 --> 00:59:31,320
No, no, no.

797
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,500
It's from all discussion and all matters related to it.

798
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:35,120
No.

799
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:36,540
A lot of people don't realize it.

800
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,060
We shut.

801
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:40,440
They're not here anymore.

802
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:48,520
When you're recusing yourself, it's even just better to remove yourself from the room,

803
00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:50,460
from the entire discussion.

804
00:59:50,460 --> 00:59:53,820
Go to another room, excuse yourself from that whole discussion.

805
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,520
Don't even be near the discussion.

806
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,080
What is what recusal is? You don't vote, but you don't take part of the discussion.

807
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:09,160
I've got a conflict with this meeting. I've removed myself.

808
01:00:09,580 --> 01:00:14,780
You're doing your job. No, you don't get to recuse yourself. You get to sit here and listen to it all until I'm done.

809
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,840
I'm telling you. Remember, I just gave you that, hey, you got to stay here.

810
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,820
Okay. Next slide. Okay.

811
01:00:24,860 --> 01:00:28,740
I think we're almost done here with that one.

812
01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:36,760
If it's an unmanageable conflict of interest, we reassign the duties and we divest the interests,

813
01:00:37,020 --> 01:00:42,040
we decline the transaction of the role, we document the resolution, and it's the end

814
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:42,680
of the story.

815
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,960
So the documentation of all of this is really, really important.

816
01:00:48,020 --> 01:00:50,520
So it's documentation, documentation, documentation.

817
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,280
It's the thing that is going to save the day.

818
01:00:55,540 --> 01:00:59,840
I have to do it as an educator with problem student issues.

819
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:05,960
Something as simple as that, but you might think a problem student issue is just very

820
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:07,800
simple compared to what you have to handle.

821
01:01:08,140 --> 01:01:12,960
You would be amazed at the legalities involved in a lot of this.

822
01:01:13,780 --> 01:01:19,140
So we live in a day and age because of technology, because of transparency, because

823
01:01:19,140 --> 01:01:23,740
Because of everything else, it's documentation that saves the day for everything.

824
01:01:24,460 --> 01:01:25,480
So protect yourself.

825
01:01:26,340 --> 01:01:26,840
Next slide.

826
01:01:28,100 --> 01:01:28,380
Okay.

827
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:29,320
Conflict resolution.

828
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,580
How do we manage conflict resolution?

829
01:01:33,260 --> 01:01:36,480
First of all, you disclose the conflict.

830
01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:43,040
Secondly, we recuse from the discussion and the vote.

831
01:01:43,820 --> 01:01:49,120
And I disagree with Ray when he said, if necessary, I say always you do that.

832
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:55,520
and you document the actions for transparency. Next slide. Appearance of

833
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,820
impropriety. Okay, there's a lot of language here. I'm going to leave this

834
01:01:59,820 --> 01:02:03,360
slideshow with you. I'm not going to read all of this. I'm going to summarize this.

835
01:02:04,020 --> 01:02:09,460
One of the advantages ethics commissioners have is COGEL. You may have

836
01:02:09,460 --> 01:02:13,300
heard about COGEL. It's the Council on Governmental Laws and Ethics, or

837
01:02:13,300 --> 01:02:18,240
Governmental Ethics and Laws. And we take advantage. We have a Commission

838
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:23,680
membership to Kogel and every year we have one or two commissioners who attend

839
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:29,600
Kogel. I have attended Kogel myself several times. It's been an annual

840
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:34,480
conference where you really get to learn a lot about governmental ethics and

841
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:40,380
laws and the appearance of impropriety is always a topic for discussion.

842
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:47,520
It's

843
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:54,020
stated regulation, but the appearance doesn't really look good. It's the

844
01:02:54,020 --> 01:02:59,860
objects. So you have to be really careful about, you know, follow your own

845
01:02:59,860 --> 01:03:05,660
intuition. If something doesn't look or smell good, maybe it has an appearance of

846
01:03:05,660 --> 01:03:10,280
impropriety. And Kogel has another definition around that with the next

847
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:16,440
slide, if you could go to that. Kogel also says that the appearance of

848
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:22,420
different propriety. Ms. George, if you don't mind, go to the next slide. Thank you. I really

849
01:03:22,420 --> 01:03:30,400
appreciate your help and all this. This is worth reading. Could we do a round robin and

850
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,580
could somebody read number two, number one? Who will volunteer to read number one?

851
01:03:34,660 --> 01:03:38,720
I got it. Appearance of impropriety, key components of the definition of reasonable

852
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:44,240
person standard. The perception is not based on suspicion or conjecture but on what

853
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,920
a reasonable person would think you have to review the facts.

854
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:47,780
Perfect.

855
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:48,420
Thank you.

856
01:03:49,060 --> 01:03:49,540
Number two?

857
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:50,960
I'll read that.

858
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:57,240
Beyond actual conflict, it applies to actions that are technically legal but still look improper

859
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:58,440
or self-serving.

860
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:00,320
Number three?

861
01:04:00,980 --> 01:04:05,280
Number three, erosion of public confidence, the standard aims to protect public trust

862
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,940
in government, recognizing that perceived misconduct is as damaging as actual misconduct.

863
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:11,680
Number four?

864
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:18,760
Scope. It covers actions that might create the appearance that an employee is viling the law or ethical standards.

865
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:21,580
Okay. And the last bullet?

866
01:04:23,220 --> 01:04:35,760
The principle is that we must ensure that officials avoid situations such as specific personal relationships or financial injuries that might raise ethical questions.

867
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:42,700
Excellent. So those are valuable points. This is really what Kogel says about appearance of impropriety.

868
01:04:42,700 --> 01:04:48,320
So you can see it's really kind of a gray area. It's not all that black and white.

869
01:04:48,740 --> 01:04:49,860
So going to the next slide.

870
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:56,020
Remember, as an elected official, you're always going to be under scrutiny.

871
01:04:56,300 --> 01:04:57,780
And you know that. Next slide.

872
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,700
So transparency and disclosure.

873
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:10,520
The following may always be called in for review, for evidence, open meetings, FOIA,

874
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:16,540
obligations, public records, emails, texts, group chats, statements of financial

875
01:05:16,540 --> 01:05:23,820
interest. Next slide. Use of county resources. Pay attention to this one. Do

876
01:05:23,820 --> 01:05:32,920
not use county staff for campaign tasks. Use county vehicles for personal or

877
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:38,560
political activity, and blend county and campaign events,

878
01:05:39,260 --> 01:05:40,540
especially finances.

879
01:05:41,980 --> 01:05:45,360
And you have to keep in mind that this

880
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:50,640
has to be a shared or an equitable allocation

881
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:51,420
of resources.

882
01:05:51,740 --> 01:05:54,960
You have to be careful about the gifts and favors.

883
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:56,240
You all know about that.

884
01:05:56,380 --> 01:05:58,000
You can't accept gifts and favors.

885
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:00,840
Keep in mind, we hope that your office,

886
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,000
that all of your offices have gift logs.

887
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,100
I know that when we do training for county employees,

888
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:09,120
a lot of them have said that they do have gift logs

889
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,420
and some of them have said they don't know

890
01:06:11,420 --> 01:06:12,600
where the gift log is.

891
01:06:13,180 --> 01:06:14,580
So we always tell everybody,

892
01:06:14,820 --> 01:06:16,340
if you don't know where the gift log is,

893
01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:18,780
make sure you find out where the gift log is

894
01:06:18,780 --> 01:06:20,760
because that's important.

895
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,540
So the next click on this slide is

896
01:06:23,540 --> 01:06:27,780
there's no acceptance of gifts to official influence.

897
01:06:27,780 --> 01:06:35,260
There's no box seats, no trips, no meals, all high-risk stuff.

898
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:41,560
There is no reportable, even if no act is taken.

899
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,780
I was reading something online at Kogel the other day where somebody asked,

900
01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:52,980
what's the

901
01:06:52,980 --> 01:06:55,340
name for the gambling establishment, casino.

902
01:06:55,340 --> 01:06:59,960
You know, our casino rewards reportable gifts.

903
01:07:00,740 --> 01:07:02,540
And I thought, isn't that interesting?

904
01:07:03,100 --> 01:07:05,020
That came from somebody in Massachusetts.

905
01:07:05,980 --> 01:07:07,760
So think about that one.

906
01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:09,200
That's something that may come up.

907
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:10,740
So next slide.

908
01:07:12,340 --> 01:07:16,120
Gifts and resources do as undone, politely decline them,

909
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,360
report gifts or favors.

910
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,820
If they meet disclosure thresholds,

911
01:07:22,820 --> 01:07:26,620
use county resources only for official business. Next slide.

912
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,380
Okay. Councilman George, you want

913
01:07:32,380 --> 01:07:34,340
to read that? I can't read that from here.

914
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:39,060
Give some resources to us and don't. Don't. Except free tickets, meals or trips from

915
01:07:39,060 --> 01:07:43,900
lobbyists or vendors. Don't use staff or vehicles for campaign or personal work and

916
01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:46,620
don't blur the line between county duties and political activities.

917
01:07:46,620 --> 01:07:52,480
and that's not blurring the line is a really tough one because you have this

918
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:57,300
role and then you have that role so I think that's the biggest challenge is

919
01:07:57,300 --> 01:08:01,700
keeping those lines really distinct and that's a sort of a stress and

920
01:08:01,700 --> 01:08:03,800
attention that you're faced with all the time.

921
01:08:06,530 --> 01:08:08,630
Okay, do you want to go into

922
01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:12,150
scenarios or do you just want me to get to the bottom line? What is your

923
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:20,870
preference bottom line bottom line we'll skip the scenarios okay top 10

924
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:24,610
commandments we're going to do a round-robed reading of the top 10

925
01:08:24,610 --> 01:08:28,890
commandments and then we're almost done implement internal control standard

926
01:08:28,890 --> 01:08:34,090
procedures and code of ethics institute checks and balances rotate

927
01:08:34,090 --> 01:08:42,910
responsibility over personal friendship. Empower employees to do the right thing.

928
01:08:51,250 --> 01:08:59,350
Communicate with those who need to know. Be transparent, learn from the incident.

929
01:08:59,350 --> 01:09:09,820
Okay. I mean, these are good things to keep in mind all the time. Okay. Next slide. We'll

930
01:09:09,820 --> 01:09:16,420
skip that scenario. There are ethics tools that you can use. Keep them in mind. The Ethics

931
01:09:16,420 --> 01:09:25,320
Commission is here for you. We're not a punitive entity. Ask for an advisory opinion if you're

932
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:26,640
not sure about something.

933
01:09:27,480 --> 01:09:30,460
The statement of financial interests always are there.

934
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:31,680
Answer them honestly.

935
01:09:31,940 --> 01:09:32,940
They're there to help you.

936
01:09:33,300 --> 01:09:34,720
They will protect you also.

937
01:09:36,260 --> 01:09:37,860
You can file an ethics complaint.

938
01:09:39,440 --> 01:09:41,980
There's nothing wrong with filing an ethics complaint.

939
01:09:42,180 --> 01:09:42,960
We look at that.

940
01:09:43,060 --> 01:09:44,040
We investigate it.

941
01:09:44,220 --> 01:09:47,040
It could be, yeah, it's not really an ethics complaint.

942
01:09:47,140 --> 01:09:49,280
Or it could be, yeah, there's something there.

943
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:50,800
And we need to investigate it.

944
01:09:51,380 --> 01:09:52,880
It's there to protect you.

945
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,500
And then there are state whistleblowing protections.

946
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:58,880
So these are ethics tools that you can use.

947
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:00,120
Next slide.

948
01:10:04,220 --> 01:10:05,840
The ethical decision framework.

949
01:10:06,440 --> 01:10:08,240
Just a series of steps.

950
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:10,080
Just click through them all.

951
01:10:10,620 --> 01:10:14,740
Just basically, you know, identify the stakeholders,

952
01:10:15,380 --> 01:10:17,940
clarify the duties to evaluate the options,

953
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,240
apply transparency tests, you know,

954
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:23,860
the front page headline test that Charles Toliver talks about.

955
01:10:23,860 --> 01:10:31,340
and then make a decision but at the same time document it. The ethical

956
01:10:31,340 --> 01:10:36,500
decision checklist there for you is, you know, who are the stakeholders that are

957
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:41,660
affected and does the ethics code allow this action? With this past the front

958
01:10:41,660 --> 01:10:47,500
page test, does it create an appearance of favoritism or misuse? And am I

959
01:10:47,500 --> 01:10:53,360
comfortable documenting this publicly? You know, if not then you ask for an

960
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:58,560
advisory opinion. Now, here's the thing about advisory opinions. Don't ask for an advisory

961
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:06,720
opinion after the fact. Ask for it beforehand. We cannot bless you off after you've committed

962
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:12,320
the sin. We are not the priests. We're not the confessional. We're not the Catholic

963
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:19,420
church. I say that, yes, I'm Catholic, but, you know, you've got to be grown up

964
01:11:19,420 --> 01:11:23,220
about this and fill up your big boy pants, big girl pants.

965
01:11:23,980 --> 01:11:25,220
Okay, next slide.

966
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:26,700
The gifts dilemma.

967
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:28,660
Oh, here's a good one.

968
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:29,540
We'll ask you this one.

969
01:11:29,940 --> 01:11:32,800
A lobbyist offers you box seats to a sports game.

970
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:33,480
What do you do?

971
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,540
Well, you politely decline or disclose it.

972
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,200
You disclose it, but you still decline it.

973
01:11:41,380 --> 01:11:42,420
You don't accept it.

974
01:11:43,380 --> 01:11:44,100
Next slide.

975
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,140
Top 10 red flags.

976
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:51,520
Okay.

977
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:57,740
These red flags are things that are important for you to know and I know that

978
01:11:57,740 --> 01:12:05,360
you know them, but this can also be applied to your staff because

979
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:10,760
remember it's not just you who is under pressure with people but it's your

980
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:20,980
staff because your staff may be approached somebody will say, oh well

981
01:12:20,980 --> 01:12:29,980
need help with this, you know, that's how it works too. So extraordinary in netness, particularly

982
01:12:29,980 --> 01:12:37,880
record keeping, keeping up with the Kardashians. Again, you're going to have this whole slideshow.

983
01:12:38,860 --> 01:12:42,520
Councilman George, if you wouldn't mind distributing it with all the council

984
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:48,720
members, that would be great. You'll see, you know, all in the family when family members

985
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:55,960
are hired and inappropriately so every day is Friday the 13th meaning meaning

986
01:12:55,960 --> 01:13:01,840
is constantly a disaster and married to the mob that everybody is you know married

987
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:08,840
to all the contractors what not so these are just all red flags and signals

988
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:18,340
for you to remember and the next slide is the common pitfall the blind spot we

989
01:13:18,340 --> 01:13:25,200
We all seek moral justification for all of our actions.

990
01:13:25,620 --> 01:13:32,260
We can justify with a moral reason everything we do, no matter how bad it is.

991
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,460
And that's human nature.

992
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:44,580
So avoid that pitfall, avoid that blind spot, just do the right thing.

993
01:13:44,580 --> 01:13:52,920
when you get that creepy willy-nilly's, it's wrong. Just don't do it. And the last

994
01:13:52,920 --> 01:14:01,320
slide is, that's the end. Aristotle said, we learn to be just by doing things that

995
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:08,820
are just. Okay? That's all folks. That's all I have to share with you today. Be

996
01:14:08,820 --> 01:14:17,780
Well thank you so much sorry I'm sorry to see your term is up in that you're

997
01:14:17,780 --> 01:14:23,540
leaving been wonderful for council wonderful for the county and we

998
01:14:23,540 --> 01:14:29,920
appreciate all of the trainings that you've put us through and mr. Hicks when

999
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,860
I said there was only one person in the audience from up here I didn't

1000
01:14:32,860 --> 01:14:40,770
recognize you I apologize or I would have introduced you you know there's

1001
01:14:40,770 --> 01:14:45,050
that fine line between needing glasses and not needing glasses and he was

1002
01:14:45,050 --> 01:14:48,950
trying to hide anyone yeah I know but thank you for coming

1003
01:14:51,830 --> 01:14:55,490
comment madam chairwoman is there is there an opportunity to ask questions or

1004
01:14:55,490 --> 01:14:59,310
no yes okay mr. Koneko

1005
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:06,040
Great training and a lot of good information. And, you know, as we look at ethics throughout

1006
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:14,400
different jurisdictions, I would like to ask the opinion if the, let's say we have legislation

1007
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:22,520
that said a developer cannot contribute to a campaign within 90 days when they are pending

1008
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:28,720
developing developments before somebody. How do you feel that would be ethically?

1009
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:36,120
Johanna, did you hear that question? I heard the first part of that question.

1010
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,700
Do you repeat the last part of the question? The developer?

1011
01:15:40,900 --> 01:15:45,600
The rest of the jurisdictions have done this legislation that says that if you're a developer,

1012
01:15:45,940 --> 01:15:51,420
you can't contribute 90 days to maybe 120 days prior to an election to a candidate

1013
01:15:51,420 --> 01:15:56,280
when you have pending buildings or, you know, plans before them,

1014
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:00,120
how do you feel that would be through an ethical standpoint?

1015
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:00,820
I'm just curious.

1016
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,660
I'm not so sure that that would fall within the Ethics Commission purview.

1017
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:13,180
I think that's more of a Newcastle County contractual issue,

1018
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,200
and that's something that Newcastle County has to deal with in the contracts.

1019
01:16:18,620 --> 01:16:19,160
Okay.

1020
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:23,360
Because a lot of the slides you said, we're talking about conflicts of interest and whether

1021
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:28,860
there's money involved and proprietary of how it looks to the public.

1022
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:35,460
So I would think that if a developer gave you a check 60 days before your election and

1023
01:16:35,460 --> 01:16:39,940
had a plan pending before you, that there could possibly be a problem.

1024
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:40,820
Do you not agree with that?

1025
01:16:41,300 --> 01:16:41,840
Okay.

1026
01:16:42,020 --> 01:16:42,500
You're talking.

1027
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:53,760
in the actual contractual campaign of building you're talking about actually

1028
01:16:53,760 --> 01:17:00,540
giving money to somebody before an election yeah I would not think of that's

1029
01:17:00,540 --> 01:17:08,090
very ethical and I would say that that's something that's a problem okay thank

1030
01:17:08,090 --> 01:17:12,570
you very much I think we could debate that one yes I have a when you if you

1031
01:17:12,570 --> 01:17:17,190
think about primaries if you would say that means that you are you are

1032
01:17:17,190 --> 01:17:22,290
telling somebody that they cannot contribute within the legal timeframe of a campaign season.

1033
01:17:22,930 --> 01:17:27,190
Because general and primary are two different seasons for contributions.

1034
01:17:28,390 --> 01:17:29,150
Mr. Smiley.

1035
01:17:29,570 --> 01:17:35,670
The problem you can get into with a scenario like this is, and it's the same thing with

1036
01:17:35,670 --> 01:17:39,990
the SFI, just coming up to an election and you've got an opponent.

1037
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:47,450
it. The ethics violation or alleged violation would only apply to the incumbent member.

1038
01:17:48,850 --> 01:17:55,590
The opponent doesn't have to file an SFI, and the 90s would not apply to them because they

1039
01:17:55,590 --> 01:18:02,270
don't fall under the ethics code unless they're elected and holding office. So that's where

1040
01:18:02,270 --> 01:18:05,570
That's where you run into the situation.

1041
01:18:06,210 --> 01:18:08,950
I mean, I understand what Councilman Konekka is saying

1042
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:09,270
because,

1043
01:18:11,460 --> 01:18:13,600
and I'm sure there may be people out there

1044
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,300
that can be bought for $600.

1045
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:17,700
I just don't think I've met any of them yet.

1046
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:19,680
I hope so.

1047
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,780
Right, I mean, I don't know that we,

1048
01:18:23,100 --> 01:18:24,200
this isn't on the agenda.

1049
01:18:24,300 --> 01:18:26,340
I don't know that we wanna get into this whole discussion

1050
01:18:26,340 --> 01:18:31,120
but I, we in Newcastle County don't set those rules.

1051
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:38,100
Those come, they're state-driven, so I would think that that needs to come through the

1052
01:18:38,100 --> 01:18:41,540
state and the General Assembly if they want to change something.

1053
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:48,940
But I see definite conflicts in who you are backing out of the political system, knowing

1054
01:18:48,940 --> 01:18:52,860
that there's a general and a primary in many, many instances.

1055
01:18:54,220 --> 01:18:59,920
And I tend to agree with you, Councilman Calpatrick, that I do think the state should

1056
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:06,780
take some initiative on this and but if we listen to that training closely and we watch

1057
01:19:06,780 --> 01:19:17,180
those slides, there is definitely an understanding that having certain interests give you money

1058
01:19:17,180 --> 01:19:22,620
in a political campaign while a development plan or something is before a county council

1059
01:19:22,620 --> 01:19:29,420
could clearly, could clearly get a conflict of interest and just something that I raise.

1060
01:19:29,420 --> 01:19:36,420
I know, and I see your point, but I don't see the difference between 60 days and 6 months.

1061
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:41,100
You know, we all started campaigns at least a year ahead of time.

1062
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:45,760
Some of the organizations, whether they have plans in or not, give something on an annual

1063
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:47,920
basis as a continuum.

1064
01:19:48,460 --> 01:19:55,300
So if somebody is going to give me $600 and they give it to me in January, what's

1065
01:19:55,300 --> 01:20:00,140
What's the difference between doing that or giving it to me 60 days before my election?

1066
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,040
They're capped no matter what.

1067
01:20:02,300 --> 01:20:05,420
I think the 60 days is not really the relevant point.

1068
01:20:07,100 --> 01:20:08,680
The time frame is not the point.

1069
01:20:09,420 --> 01:20:15,600
The thing is, the point is to get around it unless you go to self-funded campaigns.

1070
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:18,040
Because we're talking about...

1071
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:18,580
Or government.

1072
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:19,880
We're talking about developers.

1073
01:20:20,180 --> 01:20:23,180
Well, that might as well be self-funded if you're going to use taxpayer money.

1074
01:20:23,180 --> 01:20:29,720
But you're talking about developers, but I look at the other side as well, the non-profits,

1075
01:20:29,860 --> 01:20:34,280
the other organizations who don't consider themselves special interests, but what about

1076
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:39,340
those organizations that oppose the plans that are out there?

1077
01:20:40,300 --> 01:20:44,840
And retrospect, they shouldn't be given either, because that would also be an appearance

1078
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:46,060
of impropriety.

1079
01:20:46,540 --> 01:20:48,760
So the only way to get away from it is...

1080
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:51,260
Great.

1081
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:51,700
Nobody.

1082
01:20:52,100 --> 01:20:52,780
Mr. Hollins.

1083
01:20:53,740 --> 01:20:58,860
I think the challenge for me is the fact that everyone has a right to contribute and

1084
01:20:58,860 --> 01:21:01,580
they're lost in government when there's a conflict.

1085
01:21:02,420 --> 01:21:06,500
At the same time, I know that I personally have been accused of being influenced because

1086
01:21:06,500 --> 01:21:07,900
I receive money from developers.

1087
01:21:08,980 --> 01:21:10,820
I know there are other special interests out there.

1088
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,300
I'm just as ethical as anybody else on council.

1089
01:21:14,220 --> 01:21:18,580
So the paint that picture to me is going on a slippery slope and a very false slope.

1090
01:21:18,580 --> 01:21:21,680
There's special interest on everything that comes before this council.

1091
01:21:22,220 --> 01:21:26,320
But to decide now to develop a community that's the one that's got all the bad apples doesn't

1092
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:27,200
make any sense at all.

1093
01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:29,060
Plus, we have four-year terms.

1094
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,280
How can someone say, I want to make a contribution, but for four years I can't vote the way

1095
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:35,960
I feel without being accused of having some influence?

1096
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,580
Well, I can, I'll just share a story, Mr. Sheldon will like this one.

1097
01:21:41,580 --> 01:21:45,660
Mr. Sheldon and I were in a lawsuit for 12 plus years

1098
01:21:45,660 --> 01:21:50,000
over something that was his district and then became my district.

1099
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:56,060
And every year, the people that we were suing gave us contributions.

1100
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,700
They knew it was not going to change our minds on anything.

1101
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,460
You're putting together so many different things here.

1102
01:22:05,780 --> 01:22:07,780
You have to decide, we do land use.

1103
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:09,800
You have to decide within land use

1104
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:17,940
If this is something that's code compliant, if it is $600 one way or another, I don't think

1105
01:22:17,940 --> 01:22:23,640
it's going to make a difference in any campaign in this county.

1106
01:22:24,340 --> 01:22:31,100
If it does, then I think you need to rethink whether being in county government is something

1107
01:22:31,100 --> 01:22:32,460
that you should really be doing.

1108
01:22:32,740 --> 01:22:33,260
Mr. Carter.

1109
01:22:34,100 --> 01:22:34,360
Yeah.

1110
01:22:35,900 --> 01:22:40,940
Boy, I've had a bite of this apple once before, and I don't even like looking at it.

1111
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:46,500
But the bottom line is campaign finance is the state responsibility, and if they want

1112
01:22:46,500 --> 01:22:49,220
to do campaign finance reform, the state can do it.

1113
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:56,180
What we could do, what I thought I was going to try and do once before, was we do have

1114
01:22:56,180 --> 01:22:59,920
code that asks for those people that have business before us that are influencing

1115
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:01,360
to disclose that.

1116
01:23:01,940 --> 01:23:03,620
And we're not doing a real good job.

1117
01:23:03,620 --> 01:23:06,500
That's to be reported to the clerk or the deputy clerk.

1118
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:09,440
You know, it would be nice to go online.

1119
01:23:09,660 --> 01:23:11,520
I question whether it should be within council

1120
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:15,440
or if those reports should actually be under the ethics board.

1121
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:19,300
I'd love to have the Ethics Commission take a look at that

1122
01:23:19,300 --> 01:23:21,000
and see if that's a better option

1123
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:22,900
because it's about transparency.

1124
01:23:23,420 --> 01:23:24,220
It's about disclosure.

1125
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:27,200
You know, I mean, there are certain districts

1126
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:30,340
that are desperate for new development

1127
01:23:30,340 --> 01:23:31,980
and if developments are contributing,

1128
01:23:31,980 --> 01:23:38,520
my guess is some of those communities that want that work support that and that's

1129
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:42,940
part of the process whether we like it or not you know we all make our own

1130
01:23:42,940 --> 01:23:47,200
choices whether we do or don't accept those funds but I think the disclosure

1131
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:53,860
part and the way we report and and the way we could improve standing county

1132
01:23:53,860 --> 01:23:58,860
code it's the parallel to the state lobbying disclosures at the state level

1133
01:23:58,860 --> 01:24:05,360
So we have something for people influencing already in county code and we just may want

1134
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:09,000
to take a look at it and see whether we're doing a good enough job and whether it belongs

1135
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:13,120
with council or whether that is something that like the financial disclosure stuff

1136
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:15,020
should be tracked by the ethics commission.

1137
01:24:15,540 --> 01:24:16,940
And I'm just going to leave it there.

1138
01:24:17,100 --> 01:24:22,280
I think it's a bad path to go down for the campaign finance stuff.

1139
01:24:22,440 --> 01:24:24,200
That's clearly a state jurisdiction.

1140
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,100
They could do what they want to do there.

1141
01:24:26,100 --> 01:24:28,860
but we can look at transparency and disclosure.

1142
01:24:30,060 --> 01:24:31,880
Mr. Hollins, do you have a comment?

1143
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,360
I've seen it happen quite frankly to me personally

1144
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,120
because we've reported to the state,

1145
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:38,440
I've been mentioned so many times,

1146
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,060
and every time they reach, they know who contributed to my campaign

1147
01:24:42,060 --> 01:24:43,340
because they report it.

1148
01:24:43,740 --> 01:24:46,440
They use it against me because they don't like the one I'm going to vote.

1149
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:48,360
So it's been used as a weapon.

1150
01:24:49,020 --> 01:24:50,660
It's fine as long as you agree with someone.

1151
01:24:50,860 --> 01:24:52,460
As long as you don't disagree with them,

1152
01:24:52,860 --> 01:24:54,880
then you're unethical because you don't agree.

1153
01:24:55,660 --> 01:24:57,440
That's what's used to beat you up with.

1154
01:24:57,720 --> 01:24:58,480
That's what happened to me.

1155
01:24:59,060 --> 01:24:59,920
It happened to all of us.

1156
01:24:59,980 --> 01:25:00,380
All of us.

1157
01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:03,720
Because someone don't like the way you vote, then somehow you are unethical because you

1158
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,860
don't agree with them, that's crazy on his face.

1159
01:25:08,100 --> 01:25:08,800
Mr. Smiley.

1160
01:25:09,060 --> 01:25:14,620
I'm just going to say, having had, I don't think I'm up to three charges against me

1161
01:25:14,620 --> 01:25:20,080
so far, but anything that has to do with the campaign is the Department of Elections.

1162
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:26,180
it falls outside the jurisdiction of our ethics commission. The ethics commission is the gifts.

1163
01:25:26,780 --> 01:25:32,300
So lobbyists, whatever, that's a gift. If it's into your campaign, again, you're reporting it

1164
01:25:32,300 --> 01:25:37,420
if they're an attorney with a law firm. That law firm's reporting it. So the reporting is out

1165
01:25:37,420 --> 01:25:41,860
there. If the state wants to do anything about it, let them do it. They'll probably do that

1166
01:25:41,860 --> 01:25:48,860
right after they do the term limits. And I do think that a lot of this is sensationalism.

1167
01:25:48,860 --> 01:25:58,560
You know, anybody that wants to say something to you to make you feel like you've done something wrong or to make others feel like you've done something wrong, this is what they throw out there.

1168
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:06,680
And I have a standard answer for that, that if they truly believe that, it is their responsibility to go to the attorney general and file a complaint.

1169
01:26:07,020 --> 01:26:16,540
And that pretty much shuts it down because 99.9% of the people that call you out on that, they have no clue what your finances even look like.

1170
01:26:16,540 --> 01:26:21,600
It is just hype to try to get people to feel like you're doing something wrong.

1171
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:23,440
Madam President.

1172
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:24,300
Also, I'm going to match her.

1173
01:26:24,900 --> 01:26:26,960
So why don't you just respond to that and saying this.

1174
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:32,060
Can you hold on a minute because we still have the council president that wants to comment.

1175
01:26:32,500 --> 01:26:33,080
Thank you.

1176
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:41,160
I think it's dangerous for us to assume that someone, a developer or a nonprofit,

1177
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:51,760
Anyone gives you a check or a money order towards your campaign to assume that we're going to vote in their favor.

1178
01:26:52,380 --> 01:26:59,820
So you can't say that person, that council person or elected official is going to do that.

1179
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:03,940
And it's a personal choice what your vote is.

1180
01:27:03,940 --> 01:27:13,020
And we should not criticize or even talk about the individual and use it against them, which

1181
01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:19,300
has been done and is still being done, assuming that they're going to vote in favor of those

1182
01:27:19,860 --> 01:27:22,520
individuals that are contributing to their campaign.

1183
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:24,160
So that's a fine line.

1184
01:27:24,300 --> 01:27:29,540
We have to be careful because really we're saying that the council or the elected official

1185
01:27:29,540 --> 01:27:34,080
has no integrity and they have no mind of their own so they can't vote their

1186
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:38,560
conscience or vote what they're believing in because someone is giving them some

1187
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:47,360
funds. Because basically what we vote is what's legal. And Mr. Caneko, sorry. No, I

1188
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,960
appreciate that and I understand there's people at County Council that

1189
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:55,800
will take every developer check they can to run a campaign. However, what I am

1190
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,940
trying to say is that there is a public trust integrity issue in which people

1191
01:27:59,940 --> 01:28:04,180
look at that and say that doesn't look right to me and there has been many

1192
01:28:04,180 --> 01:28:08,300
jurisdictions that have put in six month or nine month jurisdictions the city of

1193
01:28:08,300 --> 01:28:13,140
Los Angeles has done this to say we do not want that happening we do not want

1194
01:28:13,140 --> 01:28:15,500
somebody giving a six hundred dollar check before it comes for county

1195
01:28:15,500 --> 01:28:23,220
We just listened to a 60 minutes 40 60 40 whatever it is minutes.

1196
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,220
All right.

1197
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:37,740
Presentation before the ethics commission in which the other commission basically said, yeah, if you give a $600 check between six to 60 days before a primary election or a general election that might look like impropriety.

1198
01:28:38,180 --> 01:28:39,600
I'm sorry, Council President.

1199
01:28:40,140 --> 01:28:42,580
You can't even file your campaign finances correctly.

1200
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:49,400
Can we not, excuse me, Mr. Canneco, Mr. Canneco, can we not disparage anybody on this council?

1201
01:28:50,220 --> 01:28:55,140
You're talking about filing, you put $500 for gas on your campaign council.

1202
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:56,600
Mr. Canneco, he's out of order.

1203
01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:58,540
Mr. Canneco, this is out of order.

1204
01:28:58,680 --> 01:28:59,840
It is over with.

1205
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,980
If anybody has the ability to shut him off, shut him off.

1206
01:29:03,700 --> 01:29:08,900
I am tired of the disparagement that goes on between people within this council.

1207
01:29:09,380 --> 01:29:11,480
We all believe in what we're doing.

1208
01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:17,320
We do it according to the code and again if you are not doing it because of the law

1209
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:22,740
Then you have an attorney general and you just need to go and contact them

1210
01:29:22,740 --> 01:29:26,160
But we are not going to sit on this council and watch one

1211
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:29,880
We are not going to watch one council person

1212
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,060
Somebody else motion to move

1213
01:29:33,060 --> 01:29:36,680
That would like to make a statement mr. Hicks

1214
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:38,520
Mr. Rob

1215
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:50,900
Can you wait for a minute until we hear from Mr. Hicks and or Ms. Bishop, Mr. Street?

1216
01:29:52,460 --> 01:29:53,400
I have the ball.

1217
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:54,900
Mr. Hicks.

1218
01:29:55,340 --> 01:29:57,420
Okay, so I'm Robert Hicks, I am current.

1219
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:16,700
So I am currently the chair for the Ethics Commission and the councilmen and all of you have

1220
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:24,520
raised very good points. The thing that's most important for us, though, is that on many occasions

1221
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:30,140
contributions. The courts have specifically stated that campaign contributions are free

1222
01:30:30,140 --> 01:30:38,140
speech and therefore it can't be, there's a limit to what we can do with that. As a

1223
01:30:38,140 --> 01:30:43,460
result also that means that to a large extent because it's free speech, it would be very

1224
01:30:43,460 --> 01:30:51,020
difficult for the Ethics Commission to do anything that has to do with campaign finances.

1225
01:30:51,020 --> 01:30:56,560
several of the council members have stated that the proper place for this to be is with

1226
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:03,220
the Department of Elections or whoever specifically enforces campaign contributions that I think

1227
01:31:03,220 --> 01:31:05,480
is a accurate statement.

1228
01:31:06,380 --> 01:31:17,000
And so I see your point as a person and as a member of the Ethics Commission.

1229
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:27,960
I definitely see your point, but it would be very difficult for us as a group or as individuals

1230
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:31,900
to shut down free speech, and that's basically what the courts have stated.

1231
01:31:32,700 --> 01:31:40,340
Now there are other avenues that any of us can go through to try to change the law and

1232
01:31:40,340 --> 01:31:43,980
make this a different scenario.

1233
01:31:43,980 --> 01:31:50,380
but right now we're dealing with what we have right now and what we have right

1234
01:31:50,380 --> 01:31:59,740
now is person has a has a right to freaks feet speaks freely and that's where

1235
01:31:59,740 --> 01:32:06,480
we're at thank you miss Bishop did you want to say something are you thank

1236
01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:07,100
Thank you.

1237
01:32:07,100 --> 01:32:07,440
Thank you.

1238
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:09,960
Thank you.

1239
01:32:10,220 --> 01:32:10,960
Thank you.

1240
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:11,560
Thank you.

1241
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:11,860
Mr. Street.

1242
01:32:15,630 --> 01:32:16,090
Thank you, Madam.

1243
01:32:18,870 --> 01:32:19,830
Thank you, Madam Chair.

1244
01:32:22,510 --> 01:32:27,370
Y'all can sit here for the next two hours and come up with hypotheticals.

1245
01:32:27,990 --> 01:32:34,190
And then we're not going to have universal agreement on what is and what isn't ethical.

1246
01:32:34,850 --> 01:32:42,230
Um, so y'all, y'all keep on having this hypothetical discussion and have fun for the rest of the

1247
01:32:42,230 --> 01:32:45,110
night because I'm not going to continue to deal with it.

1248
01:32:47,370 --> 01:32:55,010
And you know, it looks like now every, every other council meeting, there's an outburst

1249
01:32:56,730 --> 01:32:59,330
and Councilman Conneco, you can do what you want to do.

1250
01:32:59,570 --> 01:33:00,690
Say what you want to say.

1251
01:33:01,090 --> 01:33:02,910
Well, if it's me and you, that's one thing.

1252
01:33:02,910 --> 01:33:09,350
If it's you and Penrose that's one thing, if it's you and Councilwoman Kilpatrick that's

1253
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:14,210
one thing, if it's you and the President that's one thing, but you're the common denominator

1254
01:33:17,910 --> 01:33:18,310
here.

1255
01:33:18,810 --> 01:33:22,730
And if you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem and you're a major part

1256
01:33:22,730 --> 01:33:23,150
of it.

1257
01:33:26,390 --> 01:33:29,710
Mr. Hollins. Thank you, Mr. Streep. Thank you, Madam President.

1258
01:33:30,450 --> 01:33:38,830
What I realized from the public, this council has deteriorated, and it's very true.

1259
01:33:39,790 --> 01:33:43,930
People that are not even on this council are talking about this council, the public impression of us.

1260
01:33:45,310 --> 01:33:47,190
It's just a few characters that's making it happen.

1261
01:33:48,210 --> 01:33:50,610
We need to behave ourselves, stop picking on people.

1262
01:33:51,310 --> 01:33:54,790
You don't like someone? If you've got an idea, bring it before the floor and get a vote on it.

1263
01:33:55,990 --> 01:33:57,030
That's how it works.

1264
01:33:57,850 --> 01:34:03,700
When you don't agree with someone, then somehow you've got a problem and you just stop.

1265
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:08,000
Just bring it to the floor and have a legitimate debate without disparaging anybody.

1266
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:09,860
Thank you.

1267
01:34:10,780 --> 01:34:12,420
Madam President, did you want to?

1268
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:13,580
Was your hand up?

1269
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:14,980
Oh, no.

1270
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:15,900
I'm okay.

1271
01:34:16,100 --> 01:34:16,500
Thank you.

1272
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:16,980
Thank you.

1273
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:17,680
Thank you.

1274
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:18,780
Madam Chair.

1275
01:34:19,440 --> 01:34:20,240
Mr. Canneco.

1276
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:23,720
Let me make something very clear to the members of County Council.

1277
01:34:24,740 --> 01:34:26,940
I am a duly elected representative.

1278
01:34:27,220 --> 01:34:33,000
We are all of us, every last one of us is a duly elected.

1279
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:36,320
So what's so special about that, and I'm going to say it again,

1280
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:40,640
the problem is you're the common denominator, except it

1281
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,800
and deal with it, because all of us are sick of you

1282
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:45,160
and your foolishness.

1283
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:49,340
Madam President, Madam Chair, are you going to allow that

1284
01:34:49,340 --> 01:34:50,580
to happen, or are you going to let me speak?

1285
01:34:51,740 --> 01:34:56,500
You are allowed to speak. Mr. Connect. Okay, because because I'm clearly I'm the problem

1286
01:34:56,500 --> 01:35:00,360
We just witnessed what just happened in the last 10 15 seconds when I'm the problem

1287
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:05,020
So let me let me that they make something very clear. I'll repeat myself. I

1288
01:35:05,020 --> 01:35:08,360
Don't care if Jay Street doesn't like what I'm saying

1289
01:35:11,620 --> 01:35:13,780
Can I have a motion to adjourn?

1290
01:35:20,580 --> 01:35:22,120
This movie is adjourned.