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in so many ways. Lord, especially we
want to thank you for our town that we

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live in. We want to thank thee for those
who serve so faithfully in the offices

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of the town. We ask that you give them
wisdom to be able to decide those things

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which come before them as they go
through these meetings. Lord, be with

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them tonight and be with all of the town
employees and workers so that they would

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work to the best of their ability. And
Lord, even be with the people who

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sometimes might be disgruntled about
this or that, but give them patience and

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understanding and and so that we can all
continue as citizens of this town to

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work together and go forward according
to that which is right. Lord, bless each

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of us in in every way. And we thank thee
once again for for this tongue, for the

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servants, but most of all, we thank thee
for Jesus who his suffering death on a

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cross. His glor
glorious resurrection. Through that we

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have eternal life. In Jesus name we
pray.

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» Amen.
>> Thank you. [clears throat]

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» Thanks John.

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» Thank you.
>> All right.

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» Have a good night.

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» How you doing?
>> Good afternoon chief.

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» Evening.
>> That water looks tasty.

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» Yeah.
rather be swimming, but here I am.

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[laughter]
>> Rather be swimming.

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» Yeah, I love to swim.
>> Love being in the lake of the water.

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» Love it.
>> Water's nice and warm this time of year.

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Still,
>> you know, peak.

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» Yeah, I was out. It was 72 to 73 all
day.

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» Really?
>> Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

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» Yeah. We were out
>> out on the boat.

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» Yeah.
>> First time in two years. Jeez, really

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got it done.
>> Yeah, we've got out there.

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» Yeah, nice. Awesome.
>> Yeah, same.

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» Kids had a blast.
>> Oh, cool.

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» Yeah, it's one of my favorite things
about boing.

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» Yeah,
>> it's definitely

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» It's uh
>> good time.

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» What did they What do they say? It's
long periods of relaxed enjoyment

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interrupted by [laughter]
brief moments of full adrenaline.

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» Yeah.
>> Yeah. You get that.

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» Yeah. and money, right?
>> Oh, and money. Yeah.

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» But they're worth it.

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» Just to remind you,
>> in the

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select office.
>> Oh,

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» I just did. You were looking for a
minute ago.

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» Oh, yeah. He's
>> He's wandering around the building

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somewhere.
>> Well, he'll be here.

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» Yeah.
>> Okay.

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Yeah, he just pulled in.
>> Yeah, I'll wait to get

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[clears throat]
>> Yeah, I just want to remind you to sign

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the stuff in the drawer because there's
two pay things in there and the payroll

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is in there. The AP will be in there
tomorrow.

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» Yeah.
>> If you have an ability to sign up

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tomorrow, that' be great.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

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» That is how it has been going.

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00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:45,360
Hey, good evening. Hi, everybody.
>> Good afternoon. Evening.

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» Good night.
>> How are you?

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» Hi, Stephanie. Hi.

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» [snorts]

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» All right.
Can we

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open this meeting with the pledge?

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Pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.

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» All right. Good evening everyone.

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Once again, a light agenda.
I think these light agendas are going to

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be a thing of the past soon as we head
into budget season.

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So, we'll enjoy it. While we have it, uh
we have Chief Ael here to discuss uh

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police detail billing rates and some
proposed changes both to the rates and

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to the ordinance.
And

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we have Stephanie
just here

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as well as Mary. Okay. And then we have
round table.

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» Further ado to not delay the chief. Why
don't you do him first?

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» Yeah, that's I think that's all we have.
Oh, on our agenda printed off it says

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update from administrator. But I would
like to sure.

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» Yeah, as usual.

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the chief wants to go over his.

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» Yep. Floor is yours.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh yeah, I just was

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want to come before the board and the
town today just to propose um some

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amendments uh that hopefully will be
adopted to our town of Winter's town

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ordinance, please details. Um this
ordinance was originally adopted in

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October of 202.
Yeah, almost a few years ago. Um, my

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main focus this time as I did draft the
letter for the board. Um, just

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explaining what our billing fee
structure was in October 23 and then

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what I'm proposing u for the fee
structure and uh for this um adoption if

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taken. So 2026 do we have that letter?
>> This right here.

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» Yep.
>> Is that the bottom?

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» Correct.
>> The bottom is 2026.

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00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:31,840
» Correct. Yes sir. Yeah. So the top two
tables are our current uh fees and the

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00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:38,400
bottom two tables would be the proposed
changes to our fees.

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And most of the changes that would be uh
that I'm requesting would affect um

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00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:49,360
section 6.0
or section six of the detail rates. Um

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00:07:47,039 --> 00:07:55,039
and I did draft a proposal of the
changes and uh they should be in red and

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I think I gave them to It'll be in
faint.

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» It'll be in faint on years. These are
the changes.

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00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,440
» Basically,
>> so that's a 60.

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00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,319
» Yeah. On section six.
>> Okay.

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» Yeah.
>> And I tried to do it a little bit more

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00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:15,840
detailed this time because some of the
um businesses that were using our

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services um they would we came up with
some regular questions. I'm like, well,

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maybe I can make it more clear in detail
ordinance what the fee structure is. So

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that's why I did that in a table um
underneath uh 6.5 with the proposed new

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rates. Um so that that's what it is. Um
I'm proposing that the the detail rate

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00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:44,720
paid to the officers go up to $72 $60
the admin fee of 25 cruiser fee of 16

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00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:55,920
with a total billing of $113 an hour. Um
that's up um $13 from the 2023

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00:08:49,680 --> 00:09:02,320
um uh costs. Um and then on the um
after eight hours holidays and weekends

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pay um that went from $90 an hour, 37.50
50 for admin, 15 for cruiser for a total

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00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:17,600
of 142 uh to a new total of $100 for the
office of admin fee is 33 cruiser 16 a

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00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:22,800
total of 149 so up $7.
So those are really the proposal of the

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00:09:19,839 --> 00:09:29,680
changes and the reason for my request is
you know officers take these as a extra

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00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:36,640
duty pay um paid primarily by private
companies or um establishments or groups

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00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:44,080
um and to stay competitive what with
what other um agencies are offering um

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00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:48,320
would keep us in the realm. I did a
study um

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00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:53,360
with eight other agencies and what their
current uh officer rate is. So,

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00:09:50,959 --> 00:09:59,279
Hillsboro County Sheriff Office pays the
officers get 94 an hour. Ring is 75 an

113
00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:06,240
hour. Francis P 75 an hour. Peter 74 an
hour. Greenfield 70. Jeffrey 6966,

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00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:13,040
Temple Green was 65, Bolton PD 65.
That's $587 and change divided by eight

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00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:20,120
is the average of $7345
was the average. So that's how I came up

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with $72. Stick around the average.

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00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,320
» What were
Could you read them off a little slower?

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00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,640
» Yeah, you want
>> I just like Oh, you have a print out of

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it.
>> Oh, okay.

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00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:36,279
» This one's cleaner. I give you this one.
This one has a bunch of

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» Thank you.

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00:10:53,120 --> 00:11:01,440
So there was none of these.
We were

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quite a bit lower.
>> Yeah.

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00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,360
» What about for the other Do you want to
take a look at that,

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00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:10,399
» please?
>> For the other um

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» aspects of the fees.
>> Yeah.

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00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,880
» Yeah. Very similar.
>> Crew.

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00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:17,360
» Cruiser.
>> Yeah. I'm seeing somewhere between $10

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00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:20,839
and $20 an hour for the cruisers with
the other agencies.

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Is the admin fee correct or
>> um which

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00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,279
» I mean I think
>> Yep.

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» I think we're at we're at 25 but I think
you're

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Is it because it's a different u I think
the current admin position is higher

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than that.
>> Yeah, that's just the fees that the town

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pays is get gets paid for and part of
the detail structure. So we're not

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paying the admin that we're getting that
money in. Okay.

137
00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:55,120
» Right.
>> Is is that when it comes back into the

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town?
>> I think it's like an overhead.

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00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:01,200
» Yeah. Cover that.
>> So that would cover

140
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:05,680
accounting and
>> it covers Yeah. the retire somebody's

141
00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:11,200
got to answer the phone, make the
schedule, reach out to things just

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estimate overhead.
Oh [clears throat]

143
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,200
yeah.

144
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,440
» And then so parts

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00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:32,160
everything you see in that detailed
building construction is what's coming

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00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:39,639
in to the agency for
in the town.

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00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,639
So this this billing

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00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:46,720
will it be how does this work? You'll
contact say Eversource. They're probably

149
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:49,519
one of the most common.
>> Yeah. Aspen, Eversource, power

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00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,880
companies. Yeah.
>> So do you contact them, they contact

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00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,839
you?
>> No, they typically reach out to us. So

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they reach out to us and they'll say,
"Hey, like today they were working uh in

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town
>> and they said, "Hey, we're going to have

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00:13:00,079 --> 00:13:07,760
a project on Turnpike Road at 572. uh
we're going to be in the road uh

155
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requesting a police detail. Um they're
very good about it. They call all the

156
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:15,440
time like when they're going to have
road work. Um

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00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:20,880
we'll say, "Okay, we'll we'll see if we
can fill it." So we get that detailed

158
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request. We have a schedule. We call um
officers and say, you know, try to fill

159
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that request. And if it's filled, we
call every source back and say, "Yeah,

160
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we have found an officer to fill the
detail. Um where would you like to

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meet?" And we get all that contact
information and then the officer comes

162
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:41,360
in, performs the private, you know,
extra duty detail,

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00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:46,160
completes the detail, comes back,
my town, my police administrator then

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fills out the invoice and then mails it
out or emails it to the company

165
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:55,040
depending on their preference. They get
the bill for the invoice. They send back

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00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,600
a check. We take the check, the invoice
and then give it to the Treasury

167
00:13:56,399 --> 00:14:02,560
Department here at the police
department. I mean at the top office. So

168
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:07,320
we track the details coming you know
that we perform and then the payments

169
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:07,320
coming in.

170
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,160
» So has there ever been a time

171
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,160
when we've used

172
00:14:21,839 --> 00:14:28,680
section 8 penalty?
>> Not yet. Nope.

173
00:14:28,959 --> 00:14:37,600
But it is there as a
deterrence, right? That if they were to

174
00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:41,920
not follow the town or the lens, kind of
like riding bicycles in the memorial

175
00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:46,040
park, there should be some type of fine
structure for that.

176
00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:01,839
Has there ever been like a dispute
between

177
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:05,279
like hours work. Do they like sign the
ticket or just

178
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:12,079
» No, not that I'm aware of. No. Yeah. A
lot of times like Eversource or

179
00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:15,920
» Aspen it's it's on and off when they
actually have a slip, right?

180
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:20,160
» They'll have a slip that we sign off
that goes back to their corporation and

181
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:22,399
vice versa. We have a detail slip that
they fill out. It's our detail

182
00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:26,639
application. Okay.
>> And we track the hours there and then we

183
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,800
submit the bill. So we
>> haven't had disputes.

184
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,519
» Uh we have, you know, cases where, you
know, we've had to like nag them like,

185
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:38,480
"Hey, you're falling behind in your
payments, you know, beyond the

186
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:42,320
» the um request for payment in the detail
ordinance." And that's where, you know,

187
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:45,920
our town keeps saying that police
administrator um you know, makes phone

188
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:50,880
calls just like anybody else trying to
collect money and and I say, "Hey,

189
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:56,639
you're 30 days late or 60 days or um
>> but currently to date for 2026, we're

190
00:15:53,759 --> 00:16:01,079
100% up to date on what's been built and
um

191
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,079
That's where we're at

192
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,399
» other than like the detail over the
weekend and today, you know, those those

193
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,399
bills will go out this week.
>> Yeah.

194
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:16,399
» So, is there ever a time that a a
resident might want to consider

195
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:20,240
» a detail?
>> Yeah.

196
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:25,120
» Yeah. We we get um the biggest ones we
get for residents are one has been

197
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:29,279
served the domestic violence order of
protection and they can't be at the

198
00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:33,199
residence legally without a police
officer presence and they want to move

199
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:38,399
out. So they'll call and say, "Hey, I
need a civil standby. I want to get my

200
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:41,759
property at the house." And our normal
course of action says, "We can give you

201
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:45,279
10 or 15 minutes free. We'll come and
stand by for 10 or 15 minutes. If we get

202
00:16:43,839 --> 00:16:48,000
called away within that 10 or 15
minutes, we're going to ask you to

203
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,320
leave. you got to leave immediately. And
then they're like, well, I need to move.

204
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,519
They're like, well, how long do you
need? I need 4 hours. And they say,

205
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,480
well, you can get a police detail. So,
I'm not going to pay, you know, you

206
00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:02,160
can't give an officer dedicated four
hours to be there. So, that's rare, but

207
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:06,559
that's probably the most common that we
get for a citizen. Uh, sometimes like

208
00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:11,280
Old Homestead Farm will have an event
that they'll call us for um police

209
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:16,160
detail, graduation, graduation
ceremonies, weddings if they feel it's

210
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:19,919
necessary. Um, I think they're growing
up there. I'm not entirely sure, but

211
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,919
those are some examples.
>> Yeah.

212
00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:28,600
» Any comments?
>> No.

213
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:44,760
» Well, the rates aren't that much
different from what they were back in

214
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,760
2023.

215
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:54,760
The admin fee went down for holidays.

216
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:04,480
» Yeah, correct. Was that just done in the
same manner of average

217
00:18:03,679 --> 00:18:08,799
or
>> it was a little bit to do with the

218
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:15,360
average and was also trying not to have
a a major increase between the 142 and

219
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:19,520
the 149 and still cover the admin fees.
>> Um,

220
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:22,520
so that was my thought process behind
that.

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You have any thoughts on it, Jack?
>> No, I think it's pretty standard. Um,

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you know, the idea is there's no reason
to put this on the back of the

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00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:42,880
taxpayers. So, you're trying to price it
generously enough so that you know

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00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:46,400
you're covering your costs. I mean, you
know, the cruisers running out there for

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00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:50,960
hours and hours and hours on hills. You
know, they're 70 or 80,000 bucks.

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00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:55,520
So, you know, it's not it's not
inexpensive and it does take a lot of

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00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:58,160
time, but it's built into the system and
they don't have to come here. They're

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00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,160
working and they could go to any
community police detail. You know,

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00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,200
sometimes they'll I'm sure the chief
reaches out to other towns, but if they

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00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,039
can't get the coverage, they'll come
over. You see it all the time. So,

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00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,960
» and you know, if they don't want to use
a police detail, they can use a flagger.

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00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,600
They make that choice.
>> Yeah.

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00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,880
» Yeah. And we work with them. There's a
lot of details we can't film, plain and

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00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:22,559
simple, right? And we don't stop them
for it. We say just make sure you have

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00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:26,160
the road covered with certified flaggers
and do your job, right? And that's

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00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,679
something we're very fair with. I mean,
ever so

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00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:33,600
» is in town today and tomorrow. We don't
have anybody for them. Aspen right now

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00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,799
has five trucks a day in town for the
last three months. Most of those we

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00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:43,600
don't we can't fill that request. But
the details ordinance allows them allows

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00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,720
us to say, "Hey, at least ask us." So we
know one we know where you are and two

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00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:50,400
if we can put a police detail there we
will and if we can't please use flaggers

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00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,160
do your business right we don't we're
not in the business of stopping people

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00:19:52,000 --> 00:20:00,160
from stop from doing their business
we're just saying you know when you use

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00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:05,120
us this is the fees you know um and uh
works out well so I said [clears throat]

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00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,840
one's been in town for months and I
think they're going to be here for a few

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00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:10,880
more months
>> and the police like to know because not

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00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:14,400
everybody's always nice when there's
vehicles in the road and there's delays

248
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,679
So
>> if there's an incident,

249
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:18,640
» then at least they know what the deal
is.

250
00:20:17,919 --> 00:20:21,919
» Yeah.
>> And it's nice to know where they are.

251
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,600
Like daily right now, I get emails are
scheduled from ask of the roads they're

252
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,520
going to be on.
>> So if somebody calls and says, "Hey,

253
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:34,159
there's construction and it's not
properly flagged or posted, you know,

254
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,720
like, oh yeah, I saw out there or asks
out there. I know who's out there." Then

255
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,640
they can go take a ride out there and
take a look and see what's going on. And

256
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,320
sometimes we'll roll up and say, "Yeah,
there is absolutely nobody flagging it."

257
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:49,280
It's a onelane road and it's you know
not in the best position for visibility

258
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:53,120
for approaching traffic or pedestrians
and you know the the other part some

259
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,480
people say why details and you know the
other part is you know the police

260
00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:59,520
department patrols these streets every
single day we respond to all the

261
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,640
accidents we respond to all the
emergencies we assist disabled motorists

262
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:08,799
we assist the stranded motors motorists
in distress why shouldn't we be out

263
00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:14,080
there another cop on the road is a good
thing right and U

264
00:21:12,159 --> 00:21:18,520
we are responsible for a lot of that as
a police department. So

265
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:29,039
» can I ask a question about this?
>> Absolutely.

266
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:32,240
» Um so for the record, one of my brothers
is a former Rochester officer. So I'm

267
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,679
very
>> New Hampshire.

268
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:40,000
» Yes.
>> I'm very pro police. I wish we had a 247

269
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:43,360
funded force, but my only concern
concern from a finance standpoint. I

270
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,919
understand that these companies
regardless of the rates, you know, pay

271
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:52,880
for you, your officers to do that during
that time, but I have concerns about

272
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:58,000
then that taking away coverage or then
driving overtime if something else

273
00:21:54,720 --> 00:22:03,280
happens during that given week. So then
we end up we end up paying more as a

274
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,039
town because we're covering the shift or
things like that.

275
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:10,559
» So that's this doesn't
>> Yeah, it's extra duty. So, it's beyond

276
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:14,320
their scheduled 40 hours. So,
>> no, no, I understand. But if something

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00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,960
happens and you already got a guy on
detail, you got to call somebody in.

278
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:22,640
Now, they're on overtime, right? Because
somebody else was or Unless you break

279
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,600
the detail. And
>> yeah, I I mean, if I have to call

280
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:30,480
somebody in, I'm sure it's going to be
overtime anyway for any reason. Um,

281
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:33,760
and we've had guys break away from
details because we'll have a critical

282
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,559
incident in town and like I the
personnel and they'll clear or they'll

283
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,600
make contact with the company and say,
"Hey, I can't do traffic. Can you get

284
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:44,640
somebody here or shut down? I got to
leave right now." Right? Well, you know,

285
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:47,840
it happens. And as a chief, I'm like,
it's nice to know that extra officer's

286
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:53,919
in town. Even though he's on an extra
duty, hey, when I really need someone,

287
00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:59,360
they can come, right? You know, and
that's that is another I guess a benefit

288
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:03,520
to it. I guess is a benefit. Um, that
happens once in a while. Probably of all

289
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:07,360
the details we do annually, two or three
times a year, well, some guy will come

290
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:12,799
off a paid detail to come over and
assist us in a what we call a hot call

291
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:17,039
or an emergency.
So, that's nice, too.

292
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,400
» So, hopefully we can straighten out
straighten out the revolving fund and

293
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,919
how that's all getting paid too because
that's still a mess.

294
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,760
» So, what was your other
>> That was that was my major concern about

295
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,480
pulling
>> losing our resources,

296
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:36,799
» right? Because we have limited
resources, right? And we're not able to

297
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:40,000
staff 24/7. So that that was my major
concern,

298
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,280
» right? And but it is a latent concern
because you can always have a special

299
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,720
event even without a detail and have to
call somebody and it's the same minimum

300
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:53,200
over time
>> connection or whatever. But I get it.

301
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:57,440
No, it's not it's not not a bad point.
>> I just don't see I mean how many times

302
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:01,880
would that happen.
>> It doesn't not my exper

303
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:08,240
» detrimental to the
>> Yeah.

304
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:11,240
» Yeah. It it it doesn't really happen.
>> Yeah.

305
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:17,360
» My my officers know like if there's an
overtime shift versus a detail shift,

306
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:20,720
they would never take the detail. I
wouldn't give it to them, right? Like

307
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:26,159
this is I need you here for for overtime
to cover a shift, but you that's not

308
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,039
going to happen.
And you have a budget to run by, you

309
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:34,039
know.
>> Y

310
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,039
to make sure.

311
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:45,640
» Well, first of all, Jack, if it possible
to get copies of whatever was presented

312
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,640
tonight,

313
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:54,640
we can take this right here.
>> I don't want to take something that

314
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:56,640
belongs. No, that's a that's a
>> This is an extra.

315
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:02,080
» Is there
>> It's not in red. There's a little more

316
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:07,120
italics or
>> section 6.0 is what we have.

317
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:11,360
» Well, it's offered to you.
>> Is there anything else?

318
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:19,640
» Is there any kind of legal RSAs or
anything like that that

319
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:19,640
justifies these rates for billing rates?

320
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,760
» Not that I know. one.
>> Oh, yeah.

321
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:31,039
» You actually It's actually in your uh
>> and not the rates, the actual use of the

322
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:34,000
» Yeah, it was 1059.
So, I think we're talking to all of us.

323
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:39,400
You didn't specifically ask anybody. So,
I was just responding. It's just normal

324
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,400
course, I think.

325
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:50,640
» Here's a copy of your
talking about it and the reference

326
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:55,520
material that's brought in there.
What you're what he references is two

327
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:58,320
things. One is the guidelines for state
of New Hampshire Department of

328
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,240
Transportation
>> DOT. Yeah.

329
00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:07,600
» And the second one is RSA 105
9

330
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:14,559
wherever it is. I have a copy if you
need it. But if you read this, first of

331
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:20,480
all, this isn't standalone.
There's actually

332
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:26,240
here you go. This is the policy letter
that goes with this.

333
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:31,919
And it says right in there that we the
state strongly recommends the use of

334
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:37,440
flagman and rarely recommend uniform
police officers. That's throughout this

335
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:46,039
entire book.
The if I meant I don't mean it. I left

336
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,039
my copy back for sure.

337
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:53,200
On the last page of this thing that's
listed in your ordinance, the very last

338
00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:59,840
thing lists
where you should char find out the

339
00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:04,720
billing rates. It says section 618.
>> Mhm.

340
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:08,000
» Of here's a Department of Transportation
guidelines and it sites. Here's a copy

341
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:12,400
for you.
>> Yeah.

342
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:18,120
» And here is section 618.
At the very bottom it says rates of

343
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,120
payment.

344
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:28,400
Now the rates of payment according to
the state of New Hampshire

345
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:37,360
is the cost of a the salary cost of your
officer plus 5% for overhead which means

346
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:42,480
it shouldn't be $90 an hour. If
Davey for example pulls a detail it

347
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:46,880
should be 3180 an hour.
plus 5% for overhead.

348
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:53,000
That's what the state of New Hampshire
puts in the guidelines that's cited in

349
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,000
your

350
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:07,440
» So there is a a documented rate that we
should be charging.

351
00:28:07,299 --> 00:28:10,640
[clears throat]
>> Well, it's recommendation. It's

352
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,880
recommendation.
It's not recommendation.

353
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:21,440
» It's not our policy even
department of transportation guidelines

354
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:26,960
on how much you charge basis of payment
and

355
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:30,640
that's what's cited in your
ordinance.

356
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:35,279
So we're not really following that.
>> Yeah. In here section 3.0 procedure

357
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:40,799
chief may reference the New Hampshire
DOT flag uniform officer work zone

358
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:46,399
guidelines and say I shall it says I may
and that's that's a a guideline that we

359
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:53,440
look at to use flaggers and to set up
work zones safely um and so that's there

360
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:58,399
as a reference
>> then the question would become what

361
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:02,240
we're leaving the authority to run a
detail at all

362
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:05,960
» uh 1059
If you read 1059,

363
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:19,760
» 1059 says
any person desiring to conduct a public

364
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:24,320
dance, circus, or carnival.
That's what it applies to. I don't know

365
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:28,480
that a road detail has either a public
dance, circus, or carnival.

366
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,720
» I can read the rest of it. I believe it
talks about lane blockage and other

367
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:37,200
things like that in the RCA.
Section section two goes on to say the

368
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:42,080
chief of police shall have a authority
to assign police details to any public

369
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:46,399
meetings or functions which he
determines

370
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:52,399
may potentially involve traffic related
problems lead to a public disturbance or

371
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:56,720
public nuisance or endanger public
health safety or welfare.

372
00:29:55,039 --> 00:30:00,080
» That's where the road work would
probably come in.

373
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,799
» Sure. Listen, every agency in New
Hampshire does it this way.

374
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,360
» Yeah.
>> Market driven.

375
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:10,159
» So what you quoted was section one and
then there's there's actually a section

376
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:16,000
two.
>> I understand. But section two can also

377
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:20,799
to the first part which is this is the
areas that you are interested.

378
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:25,279
Now, when we say things like Eversource
and so on and so forth, those are state

379
00:30:23,679 --> 00:30:30,320
contracts,
not town contracts that are governed by

380
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:34,720
the Department of Transportation's
guideline, which I just gave to Select

381
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:38,960
Summer,
and they lay out [clears throat] who

382
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:44,159
should be pulling the detail, and they
flat out oppose

383
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:51,279
uniform police officers except in
specific places in the state. For

384
00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:55,240
example, route 101 between ports or
whatever if

385
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:17,120
the policy actually says
if you miss some if you read on the

386
00:31:13,919 --> 00:31:22,559
policy letter about halfway down it says
polic policy and the state says flaggers

387
00:31:19,679 --> 00:31:25,520
will be a primary source of providing
dynamic temporary traffic control work

388
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:30,559
areas.
>> So is that the case in switch?

389
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:37,360
» Uh I'm not sure what was the question.
>> No, our flagger is generally the

390
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,399
» I would say especially speaking of this
year we're not filling the vast majority

391
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,200
of the detail requests.
>> That's right.

392
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:47,120
» That's there's probably five or six
detailed requests of the day right now.

393
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:51,440
We're lucky to fill one and we don't
stop them from working. We like I said

394
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:56,000
before, if they can do work with a
flagger, we let them do that. We don't

395
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:59,279
say like for instance, Donna Wrench's
policy says if you don't have a police

396
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:04,000
detail, you don't you don't get in the
road. We don't do that. My job is to say

397
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:08,880
if we can provide one, we will. If we
can't use flaggers and move on, right?

398
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,880
Do your job.

399
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,840
This is the same thing you already have.
I highlighted

400
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,399
that line.
You can have that more. And if you look

401
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:26,240
through this, this is the guidelines.
And you can read everywhere. It says

402
00:32:23,919 --> 00:32:30,559
uniform officers will be used in
specific areas

403
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:34,039
and preferred
not at all.

404
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:47,840
And then we have a training requirement.
And then of course we go back to how

405
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:52,360
much they should be paid.
If we're going to use that as a

406
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,480
site for the appendix B, then we should
follow it.

407
00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:00,799
» It's a reference.
>> That's all it is.

408
00:32:59,679 --> 00:33:04,720
» You referenced it.
>> I didn't. It says a maybe reference.

409
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:08,320
police made reference
>> if we're going to put it

410
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,080
» at the end of the day. Every police
agency, every community does it the way

411
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:17,120
you described.
>> You can see that in the statistics. So,

412
00:33:14,399 --> 00:33:21,279
I understand your point on this one. I
think you're wrong and I think every

413
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:27,279
community in the state would agree.
>> I understand you do it no matter what.

414
00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:32,960
» But the policy that he references
>> says that we should be paying the guys

415
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:37,760
their salary plus 5% for overhead.
not $200 or 100 whatever it comes to.

416
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:43,120
» Okay.
>> The other thing is you read the actual

417
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:48,559
policy
>> pretty much nobody that it applies to

418
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:54,080
because all the road most of the road
work is done by state contract which

419
00:33:51,600 --> 00:34:01,919
they follow that regulation.
And then the exceptions that we have,

420
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:08,960
we've accept exempted everybody
in town.

421
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:13,679
All nonprofits or civic groups
are deemed necessary to enhance the

422
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:17,599
sense of community in town. I can't
think of a nonprofit or civic group

423
00:34:15,413 --> 00:34:20,919
[clears throat] that would not fall into
that category.

424
00:34:34,399 --> 00:34:42,480
I would suggest that you think about
resending the ordinance completely and

425
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:47,760
suspending detail activity until you
come up with a better, more precise

426
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:51,440
ordinance instead of
I want to get paid hundreds of dollars

427
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:55,679
an hour. I disagree. I think this
ordinance is uh fine the way it is and

428
00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:59,680
it's sustainable and we've been
operating this without any complaints

429
00:34:57,359 --> 00:35:05,839
from businesses or other people in town
other than Mr. Doyle and uh it seems to

430
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:11,359
work. It keeps our community safe. He
has another officer out on the road

431
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:15,760
directing traffic. Um and again the
appendix to N DOT flag is a uniform is a

432
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:20,400
reference so we can reference material
if we need to. Uh it's not a it's not

433
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:24,359
the new switch police department's
policy by any stretch.

434
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,200
» I'm trying to find where you said
everybody is exempt.

435
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:48,000
» Well, it's a matter
>> in our policy in the

436
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:52,720
» polic. I don't see where everybody is
exempt.

437
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:59,040
» Exemptions is section 50
>> and 51 says nonprofit and civic groups

438
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:03,920
that are deemed to enhance the sound
sense of uh the town's [snorts]

439
00:36:01,839 --> 00:36:09,599
sense of community
>> as defined by the board of select. Well,

440
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:14,400
» if traffic control is deemed necessary
by the police chief, these groups shall

441
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:19,280
pay the wages and associated benefits of
full-time officers at the overtime rate

442
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:24,560
rather than the detail rate or part-time
officers at the overtime rate if no

443
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:30,079
full-time officers are available. So, I
don't see I don't understand why you

444
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:34,640
said everybody's exempt. I'm saying very
few people would apply

445
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,160
» and that may be true as when I asked the
chief that he did say very few

446
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,560
» would be exempt
>> very few residents

447
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:47,520
um end up using this
>> they would be exempt

448
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:53,720
» well against the community sense of
community and you support the children's

449
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,720
fair so

450
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:03,040
difficult to find a community event that
does not enhance the community. If it

451
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,640
doesn't enhance the community, you
wouldn't bother calling it a community

452
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:11,599
event.
>> Yeah. I I'm just not following your

453
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,200
train about it that everybody's exempt.
>> Chief, did you have something?

454
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,680
» Yeah, I was [clears throat] just going
to say an example would be we do uh

455
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:21,280
sports games at the high school. If
there's a lot of crowds, large crowds,

456
00:37:20,125 --> 00:37:27,920
[clears throat] we go, they pay the
detail or the overtime, you know, so

457
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:31,200
they possibly could be exempt, but they
asked us to be there, right? Because

458
00:37:29,839 --> 00:37:36,320
there could be problems. We had an
assault happen two years ago in the

459
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:39,440
soccer field. Um, you know, there was no
police there and that's when I realized

460
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:46,560
we probably should have police, you
know, so those we we do basketball

461
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:53,359
games, could do soccer games. Um, so the
that those are that would be an example

462
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:58,560
» where you know a town civic group or
organization such as the scenic school

463
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:03,359
district request our presence for
detail.

464
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:08,320
» Mr. And historically the same school
district and other sporting events get

465
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:14,800
charged significantly
less than what is outlined in this which

466
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:20,079
is a lot closer to the officer's actual
salary plus 5%.

467
00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:26,880
But isn't wouldn't that be in compliance
with this?

468
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:35,040
Because it says that the chief may
um wouldn't be at detail rates if it's

469
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:39,200
something that we're discussing. So I
would think that would be complying with

470
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:44,880
the ordinance
because it's a school event.

471
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:50,480
Have you seen anything in there that
would change your thoughts on this?

472
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:53,040
» I haven't. Not yet. I haven't fully read
everything, but

473
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:58,960
» there's a few.
>> I'm I'm just wondering like what is the

474
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:06,800
other than the guidelines that you
present here? What is the

475
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:09,440
what is the negative to having a police
detail?

476
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:14,480
» To having a police detail.
>> Yeah. the cost to the taxpayers.

477
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:18,800
» How he's billing for it though.
>> Well, he's billing them, but the

478
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:22,400
taxpayers are paying the officers and we
don't necessarily

479
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:26,079
have that money transferred over to the
town, which is why we have an accounting

480
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:31,520
problem with some of that. That's one
thing. Eversource is going to relay that

481
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:37,599
cost to you and me, whether it's
directly out of tax or our increased

482
00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:42,560
billing. It costs them more.
The one of the invoices I p two officers

483
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:49,200
were out there for a total of 12 hours.
It was like a $2,500 bill or some

484
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:53,280
ridiculous amount to Eversource or one
of the companies like that. And they

485
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:58,240
don't absorb that. They're going to pass
that on to the customers, you and me and

486
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:03,119
the rest of the Eversource customers,
whether it's electric or cable or

487
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:06,560
whoever that's going to be passed on.
And those contracts, by the way, are run

488
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,720
by the state
>> and should be following the guidelines.

489
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:14,000
» The state, if you ever look at some of
these, they all have the state

490
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:18,640
requirements. You have
>> they have an officer, a flag on each

491
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:23,680
side with the thing, dress in yellow,
regardless how hot it is.

492
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:28,240
» They've met the state requirements.
>> We're simply imposing an additional

493
00:40:25,839 --> 00:40:33,200
requirement and an additional cost on to
them. And it's not like it's either we

494
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:38,000
need it there because How many have you
passed where there's no officer there?

495
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:42,400
» But they're the ones initiating.
I don't I don't think we're going to

496
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:47,040
them saying, "Hey, we need a have a
somebody out here, right?" Don't they

497
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:51,520
come to the police and say, "Hey,
we want somebody here or need somebody

498
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:55,520
here or how does that work?"
>> Yeah, I think the vast majority of them

499
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:58,880
will call us and request. There are
there has been instances where we'll see

500
00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:03,119
somebody out on the road that's not
using a flagger and they're doing, you

501
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:06,160
know, obstructing traffic.
>> Um,

502
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,960
yeah. And we'll solve we'll address it.
We're like, "Hey, this isn't safe." And

503
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,680
sometimes we receive complaints
complaints from citizens and we don't

504
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,280
even know they're there until somebody
tells us because, you know, this is 32

505
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,400
miles in town, square miles. We'll go
out there and we'll explain to them

506
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:22,640
that, you know, for safety reasons, you
should have flaggers and properly mark

507
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:26,400
the road at both ends that there's a
construction zone ahead. flagger ahead,

508
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:31,760
one lane road, whatever the sign package
needs to be. Um, and you know, so so

509
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:35,760
sometimes they don't do that, right? And
that's, you know, an education part on

510
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:39,200
our our part of the PD when we go up to
these uh people that are doing that. And

511
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:43,200
then, you know, we also give them the
town ordinance so they understand what's

512
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,200
uh the ordinance of the towns and what's
expected.

513
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:50,880
» And just for balance, this is
[clears throat]

514
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,680
obviously the state of New Hampshire,
they have their own things when they're

515
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:56,480
building
roads and bridges. So, they're trying to

516
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:00,720
control their costs. They'd rather have
a flyer than a car because they spend

517
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,640
tens of millions of dollars on bridges
and roads. They want to control their

518
00:42:02,319 --> 00:42:11,520
costs. A splint is a private company.
They get hired by a by these utilities.

519
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:15,920
And I don't I would disagree with oil
that these are state contracts. It's a

520
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:22,200
utility contract with a private company.
And the fact is again every single

521
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,200
community

522
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:31,200
charges these rights for these just the
way it is. Every community that I've

523
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:34,720
ever worked in love with the air
and I called New Hampshire State Police

524
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:38,560
and I don't quote me on this but I think
was the troopers are getting $72 an hour

525
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,839
and that's what the state so if you
reference this their own people aren't

526
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:46,960
even doing it you know if that if that's
what we're looking at. Um, plus their

527
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:52,680
fees are a lot higher than ours. They
have uniform fees and you know other

528
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,680
things. But anyway, that's

529
00:42:54,240 --> 00:43:02,560
» all right. Any other discussion on the
proposed changes?

530
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:07,119
» I would like to see some of the
surrounding police departments and you

531
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:13,680
know
what would be comparative

532
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:19,000
um to the what they what they charge and
how they do it compared to what we're

533
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,000
doing.

534
00:43:21,035 --> 00:43:28,359
[clears throat]
>> Those are current rates.

535
00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:28,359
» Okay.

536
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:34,160
» And those listed there, Mr. Alvarez, are
the officers pay rate, not all the fees

537
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,160
combined.
>> Okay.

538
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:41,240
Any

539
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,200
other discussion?

540
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:57,800
» Does that satisfy what you were?
>> Oh, I'm just looking at it right now.

541
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,800
So, go ahead and and and

542
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:03,000
speak to it.

543
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:13,880
» Well, I was going to uh it up. We there
>> that's your prerogative.

544
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:22,720
» I suppose it is chairman.
>> It is my prerogative.

545
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,720
» Make a motion to
>> Yeah, this is what But I wanted to know.

546
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,440
» Oh, yeah. I'm just Yeah, I'm just
looking at the at the details here.

547
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:36,000
» Yeah.
>> And we can go ahead and Yeah, you could

548
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:41,520
wrap it up if you'd like and then um
that'll give me the next until the next

549
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:46,000
week or so to uh to review this. That's
all.

550
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,440
Unless you don't want me to take this
with me.

551
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,440
» Oh,

552
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:59,760
so you don't feel comfortable voting on
a motion at this time?

553
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:04,240
» I didn't accept this.
>> Oh, okay. Can I have a motion?

554
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:11,359
» I
I'll make motion to accept new policy

555
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:16,720
changes for police department
for 2026

556
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:21,079
outlined in
the paper that we got here.

557
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:31,200
Second it.
All in favor?

558
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:35,160
» I tap.
>> All right, the motion carries.

559
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,480
That's yours.

560
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:54,000
» Okay. How is the uh new trainee coming
along?

561
00:45:53,359 --> 00:45:57,760
» Good.
>> Good.

562
00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:03,200
» Yeah. Okay. A little over a week out of
the academy, so it's going pretty good.

563
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:06,640
lots to learn and you know it's a
probably a four or five year journey

564
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:12,720
before they really get comfortable. But
it's a it does get us to fully staffed

565
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:18,400
as far as you know the numbers are six
full-time officers and uh

566
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:21,359
um you know he's still quite a burden to
us versus useful because we got to train

567
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,319
him and he's going to be with an officer
all the time. But we're hoping in a

568
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:29,040
couple months that he'll be a solo
officer and patrolling on his own and uh

569
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:32,880
» Jeez, just a couple of months.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we we got a chance to

570
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:37,440
train him a little bit before he left
the academy while he was pending the the

571
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:41,040
start of the police academy. They
finished up his 16 weeks there and

572
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,480
everything went well.
>> Excellent.

573
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:49,040
» We're in a good spot. Um Jackie Bouedi
is uh the police administrator. Today

574
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:53,040
was her last day, so I'm actively
filling trying to fill that position.

575
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:57,440
» Today was her last day.
>> She's going to work a couple part-time

576
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:01,839
hours Wednesday and Thursday. So, we uh
we threw a little party today. We had a

577
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:05,040
little bit of pizza and some cake and um
prosecution group stopped in to say

578
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:09,280
thank you because she works closely with
them. U all the st a lot of the staff

579
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:14,720
returned even on their day off today to
come and attend and say thank you.

580
00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:19,119
» We do as well
>> the board offers.

581
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:23,680
» Thanks for having Yeah. So it was sad to
see her go but she's going to move on to

582
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:26,640
the next chapter in her life and we got
to go start to do some adventuring. So,

583
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,880
uh,
>> there wasn't enough adventures at the

584
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:33,280
PD.
>> They got a fifth wheel trailer and, uh,

585
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,280
they're going to just kind of poke
around and have some fun and see where

586
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:41,440
they land and and life's going to throw
them some adventure, you know.

587
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:46,800
» So, we're pretty happy for us to see her
go. She was an amazing employee and

588
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:51,839
dedicated to us. Uh, real crucial to our
our success at the police department.

589
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:55,839
Um, awesome performing employee, you
know.

590
00:47:53,359 --> 00:48:01,119
So, we'll we're working on it. Phil,
>> Chief, can I ask you a question? I

591
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:05,680
noticed that instead of a an hourly rate
range, you just listed, I think the rate

592
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:09,040
that Jackie is currently at, like the
26, 10 or whatever it is. I'm just

593
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:13,359
wondering if it would be more
appropriate to have listed a range

594
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:18,079
because I mean to me that kind of rate
somebody that's got at least 5, seven,

595
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:22,160
10 years experience.
Yeah, I I I posted it for what the

596
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:26,160
position is budgeted for and I I
honestly think that it's low, right? So,

597
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:30,240
I might as well pay somebody what I have
in the budget and try to attract a

598
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:34,319
quality candidate. And to be frank, one
of the persons that applied has five

599
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:38,640
years and works for another agency and
she applied to the job. Had it been

600
00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:42,720
less, I don't think she's done, right?
So, I think it worked and I'm pretty

601
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,640
happy and I stand behind my decision to
post it that way. Um, I'm trying to draw

602
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,880
talent and I'm trying to get people in
the role to support our agency and

603
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:54,240
complete our mission. Um, and I want the
best I can get.

604
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:58,000
» Are you going to have that person clean
the office as well?

605
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,599
» Uh, I'm going to offer to if she feels
like this person feels like they want

606
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:07,119
that task. If they don't, then I'll have
to well, they're going to come up with a

607
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:11,839
plan, right, to get it close. Um, but,
uh, you know, that's where we're at. and

608
00:49:09,839 --> 00:49:16,400
we used uh you know we we were able to
advertise and we actually got I think

609
00:49:14,319 --> 00:49:22,640
right now I have really three real solid
candidates for the position and uh very

610
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:28,079
fortunate right so um yeah we're moving
forward been very successful u we've

611
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:31,920
been interviewing for two or three weeks
yeah

612
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:35,520
» thank you good
>> and if if I can speak to one other

613
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:38,480
matter if this one's closed I give you I
just want to give a heads up it's

614
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:46,160
nothing that I would need to be here Um,
I did apply for a grant u from the

615
00:49:42,319 --> 00:49:50,240
department of safety um to help us get
new computers for the cruisers and

616
00:49:48,079 --> 00:49:53,839
hardware and try to get on what we call
the J1 program where we can start

617
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:59,920
submitting
uh citations and complaints and crash

618
00:49:56,319 --> 00:50:04,960
reports electronically versus paper.
Um,

619
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:08,079
» this is something that's different than
the um

620
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:12,160
» software. Yes, the records management.
>> Yeah, this is a state initiative to try

621
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:16,400
to get more agencies to use their
electronic transfer of data versus

622
00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:20,559
paper. Like right now, we print out
every accident report and put it in the

623
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:24,400
mail and send it to the state where we
could be sending that electronically.

624
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:29,200
Uh but anyway, I just want you I did
apply for that grant. We are are going

625
00:50:26,319 --> 00:50:32,319
to be awarded the grant. Um, I have to
go through and wait for one more piece

626
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,720
of paper, but I just want you to know
that's coming that there'll be a

627
00:50:34,319 --> 00:50:40,240
certificate of authority. I'll have to
touch base with Jack on the certificate

628
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:45,040
of authority saying that we can accept
the grant. I'll give you guys the terms

629
00:50:41,839 --> 00:50:49,760
of the grant. Uh, this grant is um for
$37,750

630
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:56,240
for all new computer equipment.
It's 100% grant. Um, we do have to buy

631
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:00,559
and submit a reimbursement request for
that uh equipment, but it's 100%. It's

632
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:06,720
not a match. So, I thought that's pretty
exciting news. Um, good good stuff. So,

633
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:10,079
in the future, probably next week, I
might submit it for review and then

634
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:12,880
maybe get back on the agenda in a week
or two and see if we can have a

635
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:18,559
conversation about
>> Do they have Do you have the terms or

636
00:51:15,260 --> 00:51:22,800
[clears throat] the the fine print?
>> Yes, sir. It's all right here.

637
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:26,480
» Okay. You can Absolutely. That's what I
mean by next week I maybe I'll submit

638
00:51:24,319 --> 00:51:30,000
all the paperwork to you for review
>> and then you know if you don't take the

639
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:36,319
grant then you know that is what it is
but uh you know it's it's a way to help

640
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:40,240
offset some of our future costs and um
you know it's out there being offered by

641
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:45,119
the by the state to try to promote
agencies that are small like us to start

642
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:48,400
using the the the technology.
>> I assume it'll save your staff hours too

643
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,800
and the officers hours.
>> Yeah. between the new record management

644
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:57,440
system and being able to do like this
kind of using this kind of equipment.

645
00:51:55,119 --> 00:52:01,599
It's it's very much more efficient. You
know, now we'll be able to take a

646
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:06,960
license in the cruiser and scan it once
we in that position. There's a barcode

647
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:11,200
scanner on there, puts that person's
information into the call, you know,

648
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:16,160
stuff like that. um that you'll be able
to print the citation out right in the

649
00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:21,280
cruiser versus handwriting one out
>> which takes all that time and then when

650
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:26,800
we're done that that summons or ticket
is transferred electronically through

651
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:30,400
the web back out to the state. Um, those
are all steps that take manpower. And

652
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,280
anyway, I don't want to get on a
tangent, take up a bunch of your time,

653
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:37,760
but you I'm going to send you some of
that.

654
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:42,319
» Be between that and the update on the um
reporting software.

655
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:45,920
» There could be there could be a lot of
>> the workload of these of your officers.

656
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,160
» Yeah.
>> Could be relieved and they can be

657
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,800
spending more.
>> Yes, sir. Yeah. it when we finally get

658
00:52:50,319 --> 00:52:59,040
this all up and running by go live date
of May next year. I mean, it's going to

659
00:52:54,960 --> 00:53:02,960
make a big impact on our our efficiency
for sure.

660
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:04,480
» And then that in turn improves morale
>> does

661
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,119
» because nobody
>> and we're going to get up to modern

662
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:11,040
technology where a lot of agencies are
already doing this. We we're not we're

663
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:14,240
way behind the curve.
>> Yeah. But I bet we're ahead of some

664
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:18,880
» some. Yes, we are. We are definitely
ahead of some. We are not we are not

665
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,440
behind everybody. Some some police
departments still don't have computers

666
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:26,480
in their cruisers,
>> which

667
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:31,760
» is really really old school, right? Like
I started 20 something years ago.

668
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:36,400
We had computers in the cars,
>> right? Some agencies don't have anyway.

669
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:41,200
Uh exciting news for you know that that
grant was a a bit of work. I got the the

670
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:45,599
letter from the state last week saying
that it's going to go through and uh

671
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:49,839
that this got signed off by the
governor's council. etc. So,

672
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:54,720
» so we'll be a Did you say you'll be able
to email the three of us to so we can

673
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:59,920
» Yep. I'll get everything compiled and
say here this is what the agreement is,

674
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:03,359
scope of work, and the um certificate of
authority.

675
00:54:01,359 --> 00:54:06,319
» Yeah. If you could send it earlier than
like just at a meeting where [cough]

676
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,520
» Yeah.
>> If I get it to you next week, I probably

677
00:54:07,839 --> 00:54:13,760
won't be asked to get on the agenda for
a week or two after. Perfect. Right.

678
00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:20,480
» And that way we can cover if this
questions Yeah.

679
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:25,200
All right, I have one other question.
Um, you see a lot on the news now of

680
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:28,480
video surveillance,
>> right? You I'm sure you've seen like

681
00:54:27,359 --> 00:54:32,960
cameras everywhere.
>> Flock is the is the is the the name

682
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:39,680
going around for sure.
>> And I'm wondering that

683
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:41,839
um gifted radar thing that we accepted.
Yep.

684
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:46,480
» Is that a part of that network?
>> No, it is not. is not linked to like an

685
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,880
automatic license plate here where it's
running a license plate back to the DMV

686
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:56,079
or anything like that. No,
>> it's capturing speeds.

687
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:58,960
» But then there was a there was a camera.
>> Yeah, there's supposed to be an anti-

688
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:02,160
theft camera there. So, if you somebody
stole it that perhaps you could get a

689
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:06,960
picture of somebody who stole the sign
and vandalized it. I've never used it.

690
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:13,280
I've never had to and I'm not even sure
how to access that to be frank. Right.

691
00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:16,079
Um, so the police is not using it as a
surveillance tool other than to monitor

692
00:55:15,359 --> 00:55:20,880
speed.
>> And so you get a report.

693
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:28,319
» I can print a report. Yep. So I I can
log in and see the traffic patterns

694
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:32,240
speed patterns.
>> All right.

695
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:36,559
» Very good.
>> We we do have two we do have a camera at

696
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:40,720
Hybridge and and not us, but there is a
camera at Hybridge and 1241 123.

697
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,319
» That's a DOT camera.
>> That's a DOT camera. My understanding

698
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,040
that's a live feed only. They don't
record it. They just monitor the

699
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:49,839
intersection. That's what I was told.
I've never seen any footage from it or

700
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:53,839
used it.
>> And I've had people come into the office

701
00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:56,160
and be like, "You own that camera within
the last couple months." Right.

702
00:55:55,359 --> 00:55:59,520
» Yeah. Because it's really
>> They want to know if it's a FL camera

703
00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:02,720
basically. And I'll be like, "No, it's
DOT. If you have questions, go see the

704
00:56:01,599 --> 00:56:10,559
DOT."
I wonder if this board has any footing

705
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:16,400
to ask the state
why that's there and can it be removed.

706
00:56:13,599 --> 00:56:21,680
» Well, my understanding is they just
monitor road conditions like in winter

707
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:25,280
if there's a car off the road or snow
accumulation or that sort of thing. But

708
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,720
» I don't know that there's any other
purpose. But

709
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:31,119
» yeah,
>> and I've been up to the control center

710
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:34,079
up there and it's it's impressive. They
have

711
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,839
hundreds and hundreds of cameras around
the state monitoring the interstates

712
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:43,440
mostly the interstates and the troubled
intersections off ramps on ramps um and

713
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:47,680
that is useful tool to direct resources
to accidents and hazardous conditions

714
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:53,040
but I can't speak to surveillance and
running plates and what they do but they

715
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:58,079
do have a pretty comprehensive
um camera surveillance sort of you know

716
00:56:56,160 --> 00:57:01,760
monitoring system at the department of
transportation

717
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:04,079
» I I remember when they put it up and I
was told very similar.

718
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,880
» Yeah.
>> Whether they said it was to monitor the

719
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:09,680
bridge.
>> Yeah.

720
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:14,319
» And I think one point we had a bus
accident right at the intersection and I

721
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:17,359
I think I called and was like, "Can I
get the footage?" And they're like, "No,

722
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:20,640
it's just monitored." Cuz I was like, I
wanted to see if I had evidence of

723
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:23,839
wrongdoing.
>> Somebody rammed the bus coming out of

724
00:57:22,319 --> 00:57:27,920
the library or whatever the scenario. I
can't quite read the scenario. This was

725
00:57:25,839 --> 00:57:31,119
six years ago, seven years ago. But, you
know, I remember you, oh man, can I get

726
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:33,760
footage from that camera [clears throat]
to see what happened?

727
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:37,640
» Yeah, but it's not available.
>> I was told it was not available.

728
00:57:42,319 --> 00:57:46,119
» Well, thank you for coming in.

729
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:52,000
» Thank you.
>> Have a good night.

730
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,440
» Thank you.
>> Good job on that grant.

731
00:57:53,440 --> 00:58:00,400
» Thank you.
>> We got to see the pine gray.

732
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:07,640
It's It's promising.
>> It sounds very promising and and a and a

733
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,640
good resource for the department.

734
00:58:08,799 --> 00:58:16,400
» All right. I don't I don't actually have
much to report since I've only been back

735
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:22,480
five hours. But
>> um but I do, you know, I do um kind of

736
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:29,520
want to continue the conversation about
the um the finance software module that

737
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:33,920
we discussed a month or two or three
ago.

738
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:37,200
» I don't know if you want to talk about
that at all.

739
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,680
» Please.
>> Yes.

740
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:47,520
Yeah. So, um I can speak to that a
little bit. Um,

741
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:56,480
I we I went and attended a meeting this
week with Mary and Pete and

742
00:58:52,640 --> 00:59:00,880
kind of went over the overall picture of
what's happening within the finance

743
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:05,200
departments and the accounting and the
practices between

744
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:11,599
uh
finance and the treasurer.

745
00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:16,480
And most of the problems or a lot of
problem that we have is pointing towards

746
00:59:13,599 --> 00:59:20,559
limited limited functions of our
software.

747
00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:24,559
And
there's I didn't dig into all the

748
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:30,079
numbers and that per se, but I was just
trying to figure out where the

749
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:35,599
bottlenecks are within the town to have
the proper channels for who's doing what

750
00:59:32,799 --> 00:59:41,839
and how it's supposed to be going on.
Um,

751
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:46,000
and so without the software, we're not
allowed to

752
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:53,599
set up, from what I understand, the
accounts properly to post

753
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:57,839
the treasures revenues and they need
expense accounts to go along with them

754
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:01,920
and
it all filtered back towards two

755
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:07,599
limitations that our software is not
correct.

756
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:11,680
So, um I think previous meetings we've
had

757
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:16,079
the discussion that the modules to get
what we need was like around 15,000

758
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,160
maybe a little over.
>> Well, that came through an email.

759
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:25,280
» Yeah.
>> A few weeks back.

760
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:30,079
So in my opinion from what I see versus
trying to go back to like an Excel or

761
01:00:27,839 --> 01:00:39,680
switch the software midstream where we
are, I I just think we will disrupt more

762
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:45,680
than getting the proper software that we
already own

763
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:47,920
to abandon our whole old system or our
system currently.

764
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:51,440
» BSNA.
>> Yeah. It just seems

765
01:00:50,799 --> 01:00:56,640
» that might
>> they might be

766
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:59,839
we've already came this far and
implementing something else is going to

767
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:03,119
cost way more than just getting the
module.

768
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:08,240
» And we actually priced out with another
company. They actually declined and they

769
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:12,240
said, "Listen, you have BSNA. If you had
bought the modules that you should have

770
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:19,119
bought,
you wouldn't have this problem." And so

771
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:22,240
they weren't actually interested in they
kind of talked themselves out because

772
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:26,960
you know the SNA will work for you but
you have to get the other modules and

773
01:01:25,359 --> 01:01:33,040
you you bought part of the modules
because you didn't think the other half

774
01:01:29,839 --> 01:01:35,760
of the equation was necessary for some
reason or other.

775
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:40,720
Yeah,
>> that has been

776
01:01:38,799 --> 01:01:46,960
our throne in the side
>> for a long time and

777
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:51,119
I'm glad to see there's some
direction going forward. It's not an

778
01:01:48,799 --> 01:01:58,160
ideal year to just be because we've
already done this, you know, approved

779
01:01:54,960 --> 01:02:06,559
expenses like
that weren't budgeted for.

780
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:12,160
Part of the problem we have is this
whole issue makes it difficult to make

781
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:17,920
decisions like this on the fly because
we don't have

782
01:02:14,319 --> 01:02:20,799
that complete picture of our revenue.
which which

783
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:24,319
» at least we're getting that we've
identified where the problem area is.

784
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:28,240
» Yeah.
>> Okay.

785
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:32,079
» And that's Pete and Mary and Jack have
been working all summer on that trying

786
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:37,280
to get to the bottom and
>> and that's a start.

787
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:44,960
» Yeah. So now at least we're at the base
of trying to identify what we need to

788
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:50,640
get, what modules to get to what you
know I don't know enough about BSNA to

789
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:54,960
uh to make any recommendations but
>> but they they have recommended to us we

790
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:59,280
know what modules are needed.
>> Well they recommended to us for a lot of

791
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:05,680
other things before
>> and they didn't pan out.

792
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:11,520
Well, I don't think that we have we have
not changed the BSNA program since we

793
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:18,480
purchased it. And so, this would be the
first

794
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:21,680
um advised change that we I think we
should implement it. I don't know where

795
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:27,960
the money I can't tell you. Hey, we're
going to pull it out of I mean, if we

796
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,960
all

797
01:03:28,079 --> 01:03:35,760
» surrendered our salary, that would give
another what 800 bucks.

798
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:40,160
» Yeah, it's almost an emergency.
>> I think so. I think we're going to have

799
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:43,119
to scrape this money up somewhere.
>> That's how I feel. This has gone on so

800
01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:50,079
long.
>> The longer it goes on, the worse it and

801
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:55,359
that was something we discussed is like
If we don't fix,

802
01:03:52,799 --> 01:04:00,559
it's not necessary like we just don't
have the tools and if we don't fix and

803
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:03,839
kind of like draw the line in the sand,
say this is this is how we do this going

804
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:08,240
forward.
>> Yeah.

805
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:14,880
» We are just going to be in the same
>> thing in next year.

806
01:04:10,319 --> 01:04:18,480
» And as a new selectman, I I do I do want
to get this

807
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:24,640
» as an old selectman.
I really want to be able to pass on

808
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:29,680
readable
finances so

809
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:34,559
» many select men can actually look and
say yes or no.

810
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:37,920
» You have to wonder why it took so long
to come to that conclusion.

811
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:41,520
» Well, I don't think we're going to go
there tonight. There is some

812
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:46,799
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. extenduating circumstances

813
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:50,559
throughout the years, we'll say.
>> But it's not just the two modules that

814
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:55,280
you need for the accounts receivable
cash receipts there. There was also some

815
01:04:52,640 --> 01:05:00,960
underlying account structure that needed
to get fixed and accounts put in. So

816
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:03,520
it's not that straightforward that we do
this.

817
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:06,640
» This isn't a magic button. There's also
a lot of work

818
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:10,880
» and that's what I was saying the
software is that

819
01:05:08,799 --> 01:05:18,400
» but there's also
>> possibility of bringing in or the extra

820
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:22,559
time to set up the accounts correctly
>> correct

821
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:26,559
» just to get the the accounting going
forward correct

822
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:32,960
» then we still need to go back
>> and I'm suggesting just

823
01:05:30,319 --> 01:05:36,559
» call bygones bygones and is get the
audit

824
01:05:34,319 --> 01:05:43,200
» for 2025
>> good enough for the auditors

825
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:47,200
» and obviously if there's question we
have to go kind of what I call

826
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:50,960
scavenging hunting for the numbers for
them

827
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:57,200
» because I don't see where we can
>> got to get the road

828
01:05:52,240 --> 01:06:02,319
» spend so much time going reverse versus
>> trying to move forward

829
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:07,680
» the staff has put in a lot of effort on
We understand that.

830
01:06:04,319 --> 01:06:11,200
» But you at some point you you have to
just do the right thing.

831
01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:15,039
» Well, and this will just give you the
proper tool, the right hammer for the

832
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:18,000
job.
>> Yes.

833
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:20,880
» It won't do the job for you. You still
have to do the job, but it's going to

834
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,880
give you the right
>> tools.

835
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:26,559
» Yeah.
>> And then it'll be a matter of a still a

836
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:30,640
lot of coordination from what I
understand.

837
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:36,319
» A lot of coordination needed to get this
Well, Mary and and

838
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:40,960
Pete and others have spent a lot of time
on on the phone and on Zoom with BSNA at

839
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:43,839
the moment just
getting familiar with the layout, the

840
01:06:42,559 --> 01:06:47,200
setup of the accounts, that sort of
thing. What's missing, what

841
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:51,119
» what the elements we have can do and
what they can't do.

842
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:55,760
» So, that's
a lot of what we can't do. Yeah. And and

843
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:59,359
they all say the same thing too, like
don't co it because that's pretty much

844
01:06:57,839 --> 01:07:06,319
what we've been doing. There was there
was a a a little glimmer of hope at one

845
01:07:03,119 --> 01:07:11,119
time that maybe we can make it work
using not having the modules but that

846
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:15,520
seems to have evaporated.
>> Yeah, I think yeah I don't

847
01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:19,359
» it it would have been distorted.
>> It would have been just a cop like

848
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,839
» which would have had to been addressed
at some point.

849
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:24,720
» Correct.
>> Yeah.

850
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:29,839
» And if you don't
then you're back to

851
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,839
» you know

852
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:38,559
So, is that a motion to approve the
proposal that was submitted a couple

853
01:07:36,799 --> 01:07:44,119
weeks ago that you reviewed?
>> Yeah. When was that came through the

854
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:44,119
email?

855
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:57,799
» There was no motion.
>> I'm just asking.

856
01:07:54,799 --> 01:07:57,799
» Yeah.

857
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:11,200
Has anyone called or followed up with
them?

858
01:08:08,799 --> 01:08:17,520
» You got trained with them,
>> right? But did they I know the last time

859
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:20,880
that we went reviewed the
potential cost,

860
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,880
» how long it was good for.
>> Yeah.

861
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:30,799
No, but I can tomorrow.
>> It's typically 60 days.

862
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:34,640
» Yeah,
>> it's past the quoted date, but I just

863
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,880
want to make sure
>> if they'll

864
01:08:38,719 --> 01:08:42,520
reach out to them tomorrow.

865
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:56,359
So,
>> so that is that quote was 15,000.

866
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:06,719
» You can make a motion that it's up to
say 17,000 or within 10% of the more

867
01:09:04,719 --> 01:09:12,839
than that we just come back. But at
least if it's within the boundary, then

868
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,839
we'll just get her down.

869
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:25,520
And then we'll actually end up at some
point saving on overtime to our finance

870
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:30,920
» in about 6 months.
>> In about 6 months.

871
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,920
» Assuming there's cooperation.

872
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:51,239
I'm looking back at my notes.

873
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:09,880
She's going to go get that email if you
have any.

874
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:19,120
I'm wondering back in May we approved
$3675

875
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:22,400
» that was
>> for consultation

876
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:25,760
» that was for training and trying to help
solve these

877
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:30,080
» Yeah. Can we burn up all that money?
>> Not yet. But I think I think this week

878
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,719
may finish it off.
>> Yeah.

879
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:37,840
» Remember there's layers to this. First
one was we

880
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:41,679
» we took the BSNA platform half of it
because

881
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:46,880
that replicated the method that you were
using here which wasn't working. But it

882
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:52,159
also
um we had to understand with some of

883
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:58,480
that consultation and training what
happened to the

884
01:10:54,800 --> 01:11:03,679
account set up to get
to set the software up. There were

885
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:06,320
errors and mistakes with that. And so we
had to kind of figure out well how was

886
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:11,440
this set up in the first place because
some of the accounts didn't make sense.

887
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:16,520
And then what can it do? And then what
are we missing? What's taking the

888
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,520
numbers?

889
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:29,280
» Yeah, I was I was just asking that
thinking some of that money

890
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:32,880
unused money if there was any leftover
it would go towards helping with this.

891
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:38,480
But
purchasing these modules does that you

892
01:11:36,159 --> 01:11:42,640
don't probably don't know if that comes
with a certain amount of consultation.

893
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:45,120
There is
>> there's a project management.

894
01:11:44,159 --> 01:11:50,719
» It talks about
>> fee in there covered.

895
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:54,400
» I think it was like 40 of my memory.
It's like 4200 [clears throat]

896
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:58,480
» was in the 50.
>> Okay, that was a good part of it.

897
01:11:56,719 --> 01:12:00,800
» They aren't just going to here download
the software.

898
01:11:59,679 --> 01:12:03,360
» They have to set it up. They have to
make sure the accounts line up what it's

899
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:06,400
supposed to be. They have to train
people to use it.

900
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:12,560
» But I think if we have
>> that's going to be the challenge

901
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:12,560
» if we can get it and we have the

902
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:21,199
some extra personnel or whatever in here
to help

903
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:26,480
implement it. I think it would be
beneficial.

904
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:30,400
» Is that even possible though? Can you
can you put a whole team on it?

905
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:34,400
Let's
>> take the first step first.

906
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:39,920
» Yeah. I mean, and um
>> let's get it get it set up.

907
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:44,880
» Yeah. get file with it moving forward
and then I think we've already talked to

908
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:52,239
Nancy for example she's got some
familiarity I believe with

909
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:56,560
so you may have some internal resources
>> no that's not it

910
01:12:54,960 --> 01:13:00,800
» was that the quote Mary
>> no this isn't that's

911
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:05,520
» that's mine but Pete did the other one
that was from a year before

912
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:10,080
» a year before cuz I I see it in my notes
back in May.

913
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:15,920
» I think I recommend you do what Jack
said, you know, to say up to 17,000%

914
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:21,640
of the
>> cost estimate and come back if you need

915
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,640
to come back.

916
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:30,040
» Give another 2,000 in there.

917
01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:35,520
» That's an up. So
>> it'll be whatever.

918
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:38,640
» Yeah. Everybody's aware
>> you don't need to spend it. Don't spend

919
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:43,199
it.
>> I think everyone's aware of that.

920
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:50,480
» If not, we can make a decree from the
board of selectmen. You must be aware.

921
01:13:48,159 --> 01:13:55,679
» I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion
to

922
01:13:52,400 --> 01:14:03,719
purchase the extra modules outlined in
our proposal up to

923
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:03,719
date. Let's call it 16,000

924
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:07,239
and

925
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:16,760
» 16,000. If it be over, it would have to
come back to the board for view and

926
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,760
approval.

927
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:24,960
» A second. I'll second that.
>> All in favor? I

928
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:28,239
» you are authorized
to move forward.

929
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:32,080
» Thank you. I will call them in the
morning and

930
01:14:30,159 --> 01:14:35,360
send an email.
>> No,

931
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:38,239
» thank you.
>> You can help me just hang with the

932
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:41,360
original price.
>> Mhm.

933
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:45,840
» Yeah, they have to
>> cuz we're going to need the extra cost.

934
01:14:44,159 --> 01:14:50,159
» We never told them you were authorized.
>> No,

935
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:52,480
» they can watch.
>> You know, the fee shouldn't have to

936
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:56,960
change very much, right?
>> It should have what it is.

937
01:14:53,840 --> 01:15:00,320
» It is what is what it is.
>> Yes. Thank you.

938
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,960
Well, that was good.
>> Yeah,

939
01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:07,040
» good stuff.
>> I really feel

940
01:15:05,679 --> 01:15:16,640
» it. Sounds like you guys had a
productive meeting last week

941
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:24,239
» and we'll continue to um meet um with
I've asked the auditors to send somebody

942
01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:31,840
out next Thursday as well as
to meet with Arlene and Mary and me and

943
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:39,840
you guys if you're available.
>> And I know that um

944
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:44,560
the Jaffrey Town finance director has
helped you out in the past and she's

945
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:49,120
willing to come and help out again. So,
we'll get we'll get a number of people

946
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:54,239
focus in on it.
>> Now, she's familiar. I forget her last

947
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:56,640
name. Her name Fitzgerald.
>> Alisa.

948
01:15:55,280 --> 01:16:01,960
» Alicia. Okay.
>> It's Alisa.

949
01:15:57,440 --> 01:16:01,960
» Alisa, I think Es

950
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:10,640
» Yeah, she has helped in the Yeah, I
spoke to her today.

951
01:16:06,719 --> 01:16:14,159
» We've hired her before.
>> So, she's

952
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:19,199
advantage to using her is she's very
familiar with the towns.

953
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:24,440
» I think she helped you with your trial
balance a couple few years ago.

954
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:24,440
» Yeah.

955
01:16:25,199 --> 01:16:29,239
» Well, hopefully it works out.

956
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:39,800
That was the big one. Any uh small round
table discussion?

957
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,760
» Thank you for coming.
>> Good night.

958
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:50,640
» Good night, Stephanie.
>> Good night.

959
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:55,640
» Hello.
>> Nothing I can talk about.

960
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,640
» No old business.

961
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,280
All right.

962
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:16,560
I can I can say that the hunt for a town
administrator permanent position

963
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:20,320
continues.
>> It does.

964
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:24,003
» It continues. And we thank everybody who
has submitted applications.

965
01:17:23,348 --> 01:17:28,960
[snorts]
[clears throat]

966
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:33,280
The board is still deliberating.
Does anybody come

967
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:38,239
um
in the top five?

968
01:17:35,679 --> 01:17:41,520
» We haven't.
>> I think the short answer is probably no.

969
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:45,600
» Okay.
>> I did forward another one on to you um a

970
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:48,560
couple hours ago.
>> I'm sorry. What was that?

971
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:52,760
» I forwarded another resume on to you a
couple hours ago.

972
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:52,760
» Oh, did you? Okay.

973
01:17:53,199 --> 01:18:00,000
» Sorry. I just came down from
>> Yeah. No, sorry. No problem. No rush.

974
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:03,400
» Another job. Yeah,
>> it's all good.

975
01:18:04,239 --> 01:18:13,840
» All right, we do have uh primary
elections coming up September 8th. Polls

976
01:18:10,239 --> 01:18:16,840
will be open 7 to 7 at the scenic
Auditorium.

977
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:26,880
» Do you think uh
is it beneficial to keep the polls open

978
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:30,239
a little later or is seven like good?
>> That's been a torical. I don't think you

979
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:32,400
want to go too much later on primaries.
It probably in my this is all my

980
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:37,120
opinion.
>> Yeah.

981
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:44,400
» Um primaries won't be an issue. Uh
townbo vote and presidential,

982
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:51,119
you know, the big the fouryear
>> Mhm.

983
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:54,320
» Yeah. The pole workers end up staying
[clears throat]

984
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:56,320
» probably at least four hours after the
poll.

985
01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:59,520
» It's a long day.
>> It's a long

986
01:18:57,679 --> 01:19:03,840
Yeah, they're there.
>> So that to leave it open even longer

987
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:10,719
than that.
>> I was just wondering if it's 7:00

988
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:13,360
in the morning. Is it better to open it
a little later and keep

989
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,440
» Well, is that what you were go You were
on the front end of it.

990
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:19,040
» Yeah.
>> Ah,

991
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:21,920
» I just don't know. I haven't been here
to see the history.

992
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:26,159
» Yeah, I think there is. You generally
get a morning rush of of people.

993
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:29,199
» You get a morning rush here. people on
their way to work,

994
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:34,239
» they'll stop and vote.
>> There'll be a huge when people are uh

995
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,440
coming out of work.
>> Yeah.

996
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:40,800
» Um
>> and then it's all afterwards, it's

997
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:45,920
counting the votes and and sorting them
out and doing the other and that's the

998
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:49,679
part that goes in from about
>> 7:00 until 1 or 2 o'clock in the

999
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:54,159
morning.
>> So, it's a long day. So, I wouldn't want

1000
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:57,280
to keep the full me personally as a town
moderator. Yeah,

1001
01:19:55,040 --> 01:20:01,120
» I know those hours and you know after
you've worked 12 hours and then you

1002
01:19:58,719 --> 01:20:03,760
actually have to do the real work making
sure you're counting all the balls and

1003
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,199
all the numbers line up and all the
forms filled out.

1004
01:20:04,719 --> 01:20:08,159
» Yeah,
>> that's

1005
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:13,920
» I
highly recommend that you take a lunch

1006
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:19,040
hour or go take a nap. [laughter]
>> I haven't done that yet. I do take a

1007
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:24,239
little bit of a lunch break. We are
required by law to be there as

1008
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:29,040
» the moderator's
faithful servants.

1009
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:33,120
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1010
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:35,920
» So that's September 8th, 7 to 7.
>> Yeah. And so we should be there a little

1011
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:38,000
beforehand.
>> Yeah.

1012
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:43,280
» As select.
>> Do you know if we got our new

1013
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:47,840
voting machine?
>> It's there. He said he's going to have

1014
01:20:45,199 --> 01:20:49,920
it on standby if I recall from our last
meeting.

1015
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:55,199
» He
>> There was an email that came out that

1016
01:20:52,719 --> 01:20:59,440
said it was paid for,
>> right? Cuz we authorized we had it in

1017
01:20:58,239 --> 01:21:01,199
our possession. Okay.
>> Right. We did.

1018
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:05,199
» We were leasing since
>> the last election.

1019
01:21:02,480 --> 01:21:10,880
» It was a a lease to buy agreement.
>> And so that's why it was only

1020
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:15,280
» another $3,500 I think
>> to purchase it. So

1021
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:19,840
» you have one machine to have two now.
>> We have two.

1022
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:23,120
» They're new machines with that photo
scanning.

1023
01:21:21,199 --> 01:21:28,000
» They work pretty slick.
>> They're they're pretty accurate.

1024
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:34,400
» All right. I would say very accurate.
>> Yeah. Good night, Alan.

1025
01:21:32,719 --> 01:21:38,719
» Yeah.
I was always a little suspicious of

1026
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:47,360
electronic machines
>> like being a part of the process has

1027
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:52,560
» I can't say these things are not to be
trusted because of what I've seen hand

1028
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:54,480
counting and these new ones they have an
optical scanner

1029
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:59,440
» right
>> that records

1030
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:01,679
um and it'll print off
>> Oh yeah

1031
01:22:00,239 --> 01:22:05,360
» right in votes
>> which that was a long time it took took

1032
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:10,239
us to tally right in
>> boats.

1033
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:15,199
» This thing does it. And so, um, Debbie
Deon was helping us last year and Debbie

1034
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:22,960
and I just asked the moderator if he
minded if we just we double checked. We

1035
01:22:18,719 --> 01:22:26,639
didn't have to because the state sends
it like you just got the email of the

1036
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:29,920
election guidelines.
>> So, it's not a requirement, but I wanted

1037
01:22:29,199 --> 01:22:35,360
to see.
>> Yeah. because we are um election

1038
01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:40,800
officials and we do sign it
>> and I was impressed.

1039
01:22:38,480 --> 01:22:46,560
» I was very impressed with the accuracy
how it was able to take handwriting

1040
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:49,360
and tabulate a list for us.
>> Wow.

1041
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:53,120
» And the list was good.
>> I like that. I like the idea that you

1042
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:55,840
can see it on a screen. So if you have
people are observing it, they can

1043
01:22:54,480 --> 01:23:00,080
actually see the ballot.
>> It's an optical scan you can see. So

1044
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:04,719
it's picking up any little mark that's
either inside or within the range

1045
01:23:02,639 --> 01:23:09,280
» and then you add those list and tallies
it up. I used to have three tables, two

1046
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:15,600
people at a table divy up all the
ballots and there'd be two sets of eyes

1047
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:20,560
on them. So I'd have one group of people
and then another one writing down the

1048
01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:24,320
names and then you switch then that
person goes through the same pile

1049
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:30,480
compares it to make sure you didn't miss
anybody. So every ballot get got

1050
01:23:28,159 --> 01:23:32,639
looked at separately by at least two
people

1051
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:35,920
» to make sure you didn't miss anything.
>> Oh, wow.

1052
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:38,239
» So, when when Debbie and I were doing,
>> right?

1053
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:42,800
» Yeah. You need a lot of people to do
that. But when we were doing this,

1054
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:47,760
» at first it came out wrong and I said,
"No, let's go through and check. Maybe

1055
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:54,800
we tallied wrong. It was like one vote
off." And we went through all over

1056
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:58,400
again. And it was we had tallied wrong.
That's the other thing is there's

1057
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:01,600
there's great potential for math errors
particularly on the supervisor of the

1058
01:24:00,159 --> 01:24:07,280
checklist because they have to go
through all their books

1059
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:10,480
» and they total up everybody that signed
in and got a ballot but well like 20 30

1060
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,159
pages.
>> Yeah.

1061
01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:17,040
» And uh
>> not only that

1062
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:18,880
» wicked math there it is there's a lot
that goes into it.

1063
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:22,639
» There's a lot of
>> So they're going to be doing a ballot

1064
01:24:20,719 --> 01:24:25,760
machine test I saw in the sign out
there.

1065
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:29,840
» Yeah. I'm doing my tomorrow morning
>> and I think that's tomorrow morning here

1066
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:31,920
as well.
>> Was that the date?

1067
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:37,040
» Yeah, I think it is tomorrow.
>> It would be good to to observe that

1068
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:41,679
» to see what goes into these.
>> This is tomorrow morning when where

1069
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:44,320
» it's on the sign outside. I can't
remember the time. Might have been 8:00

1070
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:48,159
in the morning.
>> I don't you get you have to

1071
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:51,280
» I shouldn't say a time. Somebody wants
to observe that they can show up and

1072
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:52,960
observe it.
>> Yeah. [clears throat]

1073
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:56,000
» Yeah. I'd like to be here with that.
>> You usually run 50

1074
01:24:53,840 --> 01:25:00,159
» Well, look at the sign outside.
>> You usually run 50 balls through every

1075
01:24:58,159 --> 01:25:06,000
which way. So, you end up running about
200 ballots through [snorts] face up,

1076
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:11,120
face down, and dim in and you compare
the numbers to make sure the optical

1077
01:25:07,679 --> 01:25:15,280
reader saw the same ballot all four
times, no matter how it was put in.

1078
01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:20,239
» Yeah, I think yeah, Claudia is part of
that group.

1079
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:25,120
» Yeah. Yeah. So, that being said, like
when I was first elected,

1080
01:25:22,639 --> 01:25:30,080
there was a recount
that was um

1081
01:25:28,239 --> 01:25:34,000
needed on just on one of the Warren
articles.

1082
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:39,120
» And so, when you do a recount on that,
you're hand counting. And we had people

1083
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:44,639
all around the table and the moderator
was supervising and then the the people

1084
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:52,880
who petitioned for a recount were
walking and watching and

1085
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:56,400
And again, the machine was
very accurate.

1086
01:25:54,639 --> 01:26:01,040
» Now,
I don't know. I can't speak for other

1087
01:25:58,639 --> 01:26:06,400
like big cities and all of that. I can't
speak for that. So, I'm not saying,

1088
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:10,159
» "Hey, go Dominion. We love
>> I'm just saying my experience.

1089
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:14,880
» I have never seen an issue with the
machines here.

1090
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:18,000
» And if we don't have them, we will need
a lot more volunteers."

1091
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:20,880
» Yeah.
But it's okay.

1092
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:25,280
» Tough to find militaries because you
know

1093
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:31,360
» there's not a lot of young people
actually participating in the work.

1094
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:36,080
» I've been elected into an election with
older folks.

1095
01:26:34,239 --> 01:26:38,239
» The older some people get, the more
mistakes they make.

1096
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:42,639
» What?
>> I heard that. That's not about us. Well,

1097
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:45,600
» it's other people. Okay.
>> Thanks for clarification.

1098
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:48,880
» Can happen.
>> Can happen.

1099
01:26:47,199 --> 01:26:52,719
So, I think you're going to get a good
>> Yeah.

1100
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:56,159
» because you're being a relatively light,
>> right?

1101
01:26:53,280 --> 01:27:00,239
» Um I mean, you never know. People can
surprise you.

1102
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:04,719
» A huge light election.
>> It it appears that it's going to be

1103
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:08,560
» what what election
>> this this primary

1104
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:14,719
» really. Well, the turnout is not going
to be like we have had. Like if there's

1105
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:21,199
a fiery march,
you know, if the deliberatives stoke a

1106
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:25,280
lot of energy, then them can go along
>> and then the November votes when it's

1107
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:28,159
presidential
tend to go.

1108
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:34,719
» So,
>> this this will be a nice nonpicky

1109
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:41,159
» election for you to
>> be inaugurated into. Yep.

1110
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,159
» Be able to see the process.

1111
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:53,719
» So, I have a little bit left on or a few
things for um the DPW being the liaison.

1112
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:53,719
» Oh, okay.

1113
01:27:54,639 --> 01:28:04,080
» One thing I have is
I met with Peter Thursday and went kind

1114
01:28:01,440 --> 01:28:09,679
of to the the shop and checked out the
equipment.

1115
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:15,679
kind of went over some of his budget
stuff for next year. Um trying to put

1116
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:22,880
together some stuff together with him.
One of the couple things that came up is

1117
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:27,440
um he was wondering about if we could
set up a time

1118
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:32,239
and a place and I'm not familiar with so
I need you guys' help with doing a

1119
01:28:30,159 --> 01:28:38,480
public hearing I believe for a scenic
road

1120
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:41,520
um out at um Timbertop.
It's a there's a section in there that's

1121
01:28:40,239 --> 01:28:48,000
a scenic road.
>> Okay. And there's trees that are being

1122
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:55,520
hit with the plow
that are like right on the the road. And

1123
01:28:51,520 --> 01:29:00,239
he said that when he plows the between a
lot of like if a car is coming, he's had

1124
01:28:58,159 --> 01:29:06,239
in the past have to back the plow truck
up, let the car by and then come

1125
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:12,639
through. Um,
um, I've been told that there was a a

1126
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:17,280
small either accident or something in
the past with the plow in a car or

1127
01:29:15,679 --> 01:29:20,159
vehicle.
Um,

1128
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,440
» it's hard to see the edge of the rain
cloud.

1129
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:24,719
» Yeah.
>> Um, when you're driving at 20 miles an

1130
01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:30,560
hour,
>> right?

1131
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:36,880
So from my understanding is [snorts]
um there's the on a scenic road you are

1132
01:29:34,159 --> 01:29:41,360
not allowed to touch any tree that's
greater than 15 in

1133
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:44,560
» in circumference.
>> So

1134
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:49,760
» we just we just had something like that
over on um is it Collins route across

1135
01:29:48,639 --> 01:29:52,320
from the ambulance?
>> Yeah,

1136
01:29:50,159 --> 01:29:56,480
» I think that's
>> where I remember the

1137
01:29:54,960 --> 01:30:00,159
the procedure. Yeah.
>> But go on.

1138
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:07,520
» So what he's asking is that he would he
could go out and mark potential

1139
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:12,000
tree or trees that he's considering that
needs to be taken out to help the

1140
01:30:09,679 --> 01:30:20,239
plowing situation.
And we would hold a public hearing

1141
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:28,239
to for any resident or anybody that
wants to go look. They would be marked.

1142
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:31,760
Markham and just see if we could help
out that situation with the polling

1143
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:37,840
coming this winter.
>> So, are you looking at or thinking about

1144
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:44,320
just giving that an offset from from the
trees and and mark that spot?

1145
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:48,800
» What he was saying is he would drive the
road because he knows which trees they

1146
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:53,440
are and identify them with some kind of
flag.

1147
01:30:50,480 --> 01:30:55,520
each one that he wants to remove and
then

1148
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:58,080
» so he wants to remove them rather than
protect them,

1149
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:03,120
» right? He wants to cut them down.
>> You get them beyond this the

1150
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:09,120
» toow. Doesn't that
>> Okay. So, we have a um somebody who's a

1151
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:12,800
forester who
manages that. I believe it's Becky.

1152
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:17,520
» Wow.
I think on a scenic road from what my

1153
01:31:15,679 --> 01:31:20,719
understanding and this is just it's new
to me so I don't I haven't completely

1154
01:31:19,679 --> 01:31:26,080
read [snorts]
>> but in in the hard road to travel book

1155
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:30,960
we read kind of the RSA of what he's
allowed or not allowed to do and right

1156
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:36,239
now we're not allowed to touch them.
>> Correct.

1157
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:41,920
» However, there is a way to address the
issue with the public by holding a

1158
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:46,639
public
hearing of a public meeting before

1159
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:50,800
winter
that we could

1160
01:31:48,639 --> 01:31:54,880
and what we were suggesting or Peter was
suggesting is he'll go out pre-mark

1161
01:31:53,199 --> 01:32:00,800
everything so nobody's wondering what
trees would be taken out pre-mark

1162
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:05,120
everything so before the hearing so
everybody can go drive it or do what

1163
01:32:02,480 --> 01:32:10,400
they're going to do and then we can have
a a boat on it or

1164
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:15,960
» it seems like
On top of that, he could use his

1165
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:15,960
portable sign.

1166
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:19,679
» Yeah.
>> Right out on timber top, you know,

1167
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:22,159
public here.
>> Yeah.

1168
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:26,480
» Yeah. We would do all the posting and
all the proper things. But I'm I guess

1169
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:30,480
what I'm asking as a board is he's
asking me to ask us that. Can we set

1170
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:38,080
this up
>> and give us some trees we're talking?

1171
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:42,480
» Um, no. But he will go and do it. I
don't it it doesn't sound like it's a

1172
01:32:40,159 --> 01:32:45,199
lot, but there's enough out there where
he's saying that.

1173
01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:49,440
» You know, if we would take the trees
down using our own staff for you to

1174
01:32:47,679 --> 01:32:55,360
something we have to spend money on, but
>> I think he would do it. I'm pretty sure

1175
01:32:51,679 --> 01:33:01,280
he would take them down.
>> Well, it still has to go through to take

1176
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:09,679
the trees down. I believe it has to go
through a a state um

1177
01:33:06,159 --> 01:33:14,560
» arburist arborist.
>> Well, either an arborist or you have

1178
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:16,880
state permission to take them down even
if you were taking.

1179
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:20,560
» Do you are you aware of the laws with
scenic roads?

1180
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:24,800
» I don't I'm going to have to look it up.
I haven't

1181
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:28,960
pleasure of
cutting trees on a scenic road. So, I

1182
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:35,600
don't really know. Well, that's where
apparently like I was saying is [snorts]

1183
01:33:32,159 --> 01:33:42,159
there's the biggest factor me as a for
one for me being le liaison talking with

1184
01:33:38,639 --> 01:33:48,480
Peter is it's a major safety problem
>> and the fact that I hear him saying that

1185
01:33:46,639 --> 01:33:52,960
he's got to, you know, when he sees
somebody and it's so tight they got to,

1186
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:58,000
you know, basically slam the brakes on,
lift the wing up, back the truck kind of

1187
01:33:56,159 --> 01:33:59,760
on the side of the road, let the car by
and go.

1188
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:02,480
» Yeah. No, it's
>> I mean that's a hazard.

1189
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:04,639
» It can be dangerous because then because
the plow can also bounce off the tree

1190
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,960
into the
>> Well, and that was the other thing he

1191
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:10,880
was [clears throat] saying is that he
said if you want if you kind of want to

1192
01:34:08,480 --> 01:34:12,960
know the trees, most of them have plow
dings on them right now.

1193
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:14,480
» Yeah,
>> they're already marked.

1194
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:18,239
» Yeah,
>> you don't need to flag them,

1195
01:34:16,239 --> 01:34:22,400
» but he will go and flag them. So,
>> and people complain about them.

1196
01:34:20,239 --> 01:34:24,080
» But that's important to get this
procedure down.

1197
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:29,040
» Yeah.
>> Before he flags anything. Yeah,

1198
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:30,239
» we need to we need to publicly know the
procedure.

1199
01:34:29,679 --> 01:34:34,400
» Yeah,
>> I'll look up the procedure

1200
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:38,880
» and be sure that uh it's something that
>> he can send out some guys with chainsaw

1201
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:41,440
and chipper and get it done,
>> right?

1202
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:43,760
» As opposed to what Lou brought up. It
may be that you need

1203
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:46,400
» Yeah.
>> more

1204
01:34:45,440 --> 01:34:49,040
» permission.
>> Yeah.

1205
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:54,639
» And typically people who have beautiful
trees along the road don't really want

1206
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:58,159
to give them up,
>> but This would be within the rightway of

1207
01:34:56,880 --> 01:35:03,679
the highway.
>> Well, I don't know because it's a scenic

1208
01:35:00,159 --> 01:35:10,639
road. So, I there stipulations that says
I know I read the RS

1209
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:16,000
» uh that said that you you cannot it's
you can he can remove any I think

1210
01:35:12,639 --> 01:35:21,520
there's a height limitation like 4T and
under 15 inches in circumference.

1211
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:24,480
» Do you have this guy?
>> I don't. No, I was reading it down in

1212
01:35:23,679 --> 01:35:28,560
his
>> his office. We kind of went through it,

1213
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:32,880
» but
>> yeah,

1214
01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:34,560
» 15 in is not very big. It's like
>> circumference

1215
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:39,280
» six or seven inch.
>> We hit this problem

1216
01:35:36,480 --> 01:35:41,760
» probably three or four years ago.
>> Oh, wasn't that on Collins Road?

1217
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:43,600
» Collins Road.
>> Yeah.

1218
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:48,000
» And what ended up happening? Were they
able to date?

1219
01:35:44,480 --> 01:35:51,920
» A lot of people were pissed off.
>> Okay.

1220
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:57,120
» What about the procedure that I think I
think they were less than 6 in

1221
01:35:54,639 --> 01:36:01,040
» and that's why he just I think he marked
them out and said these are coming down

1222
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:05,199
» and we're allowed to.
>> Now I'm curious if there's any

1223
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:09,520
conservation
organizations along that scenic road

1224
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:13,120
stretch cuz
>> could be you know

1225
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:21,840
» if there's a conservation easement along
there then they have a say. The other

1226
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:23,679
option of course is send a smaller truck
but

1227
01:36:22,239 --> 01:36:26,560
» for one stretch of the road
>> option of course is what?

1228
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:28,560
» Send a smaller truck.
>> Yeah. Pickup truck.

1229
01:36:27,679 --> 01:36:33,440
» Yes.
>> Rather than a 10 wheeler, you know, send

1230
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:37,199
a [snorts] 350 something. But
>> the issue is is most of the road is

1231
01:36:36,639 --> 01:36:40,480
wide.
>> Yeah.

1232
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:45,280
» And then it goes into the scenic road.
>> So what would you do? all the the little

1233
01:36:43,199 --> 01:36:48,000
bit or not little bit but the portion of
the road with one truck and then you're

1234
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:50,880
sending in another.
>> It's it's it's that would be labor

1235
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:56,800
intensive.
>> Yeah. Well, it's Yeah. And then I mean

1236
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:59,199
usually when you have a lot of snow and
you don't have a lot of room to push it

1237
01:36:58,719 --> 01:37:02,480
out,
>> right?

1238
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:06,239
» I mean a pickup truck may not even be
able to pile it at times, right?

1239
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:12,187
» And then you got the issue of salt and
sand back. But I get it.

1240
01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:15,760
So anyway, I'd like to know how to
[clears throat]

1241
01:37:12,719 --> 01:37:22,199
do that. Um, and then
the second thing that I have is

1242
01:37:19,199 --> 01:37:22,199
um

1243
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:32,400
is that he was um he's got a request to
add a street light.

1244
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:39,119
» Powerful. A street light.
>> A street light. Yeah, I saw that. and we

1245
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:44,000
just want to know like what's associated
with that kind of project or what is our

1246
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:47,840
procedure as a town. I don't I'm not
sure.

1247
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:51,760
» I guess it would depend on the location.
Further information on that.

1248
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:54,760
» Um they're saying it's on Spindle Back
Lane.

1249
01:37:55,119 --> 01:38:03,280
So, there was a request from a resident
for a to add a street light on a power

1250
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:09,040
pole
and

1251
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:14,400
Peter was wanting to know basically
he knows that there's cost associated

1252
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:18,880
with the project and he's just wondering
if we get more information on the

1253
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:25,360
process and also
>> just to let it know let the resident

1254
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:32,960
know how it works. And we have had
in my time as selectman at least three

1255
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:35,440
requests to remove street lights
>> by people who live next door there.

1256
01:38:34,719 --> 01:38:39,679
» Yeah.
>> Why is there a street light?

1257
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:43,600
» Well, it it does frequently cost about
30 bucks a month

1258
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:48,480
» for a street light depending on
>> That's about right. Yeah.

1259
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:56,639
» Pay them to put it up or whatever, but
I' I'd imagine it's just a vote from the

1260
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:59,440
board to add another street light
>> but

1261
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,119
» I would like to know how many we have
and pay for

1262
01:39:00,159 --> 01:39:05,119
» that was my question
>> it should be in AP [snorts]

1263
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:07,360
» yeah one of
>> separated

1264
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:11,040
» a number of years ago
>> um

1265
01:39:09,679 --> 01:39:16,080
your electrical utility
>> ever so typically they they identify by

1266
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:24,880
cost and location
>> yeah uh all the street lights and Um

1267
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:27,920
because a lot of times
you never know whether the street light

1268
01:39:26,159 --> 01:39:31,119
is out until somebody complains and you
call up the utility and say, "Hey, I'm

1269
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:36,560
paying 30 bucks a month whether this
thing is on or not. This one's out.

1270
01:39:34,159 --> 01:39:40,639
» Fix it."
>> But

1271
01:39:38,480 --> 01:39:44,719
then let me try to look into it.
Some of the people that were complaining

1272
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:49,520
about the street lights were always in
the middle of the park um because the

1273
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:55,280
cotton lights weren't going down until
after 11:00 11 p.m.

1274
01:39:53,440 --> 01:40:01,119
» Weren't going on until after
>> until 10 or 11 p.m.

1275
01:39:58,480 --> 01:40:05,280
So, uh you know, their complaint was it
was coming right into their living room

1276
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:12,080
or whatever.
>> And um I don't remember how it got

1277
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:17,679
settled out, but I remember
what the the length of time was or or

1278
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:22,159
anything else, but we've become much
more sensitive to it.

1279
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:30,040
» This was especially when they were
bringing in new street lights for night

1280
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:30,040
games for the league group.

1281
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:36,280
» Have you have you gone through any sort
of transition from

1282
01:40:36,480 --> 01:40:45,440
halli lights or sodium vapor to LEDs.
>> Yeah, that was when I was both when we

1283
01:40:42,719 --> 01:40:48,920
were first come on. It was winding down.
>> So, your LED.

1284
01:40:48,994 --> 01:40:51,014
[clears throat]

1285
01:40:55,280 --> 01:41:04,960
» Yeah, that's a good question.
>> I I'll look at it. I'm pretty sure

1286
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:09,719
it should be easy to know how many
they're building and

1287
01:41:06,719 --> 01:41:09,719
» Yeah.

1288
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:19,840
It it
joged my memory on an email

1289
01:41:17,199 --> 01:41:24,880
that I received
maybe a month and a half ago of a

1290
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:30,800
resident
asking if we could get fiber optic cable

1291
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:35,760
put into town. I guess it's not cable at
that point, fiber optic internet. I

1292
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:42,880
asked Jack if there was any kind of
processes

1293
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:49,679
uh he pointed me to some of the RSAs
that would authorize the select men to

1294
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:54,119
there's a few different avenues that are
available in doing it.

1295
01:41:54,719 --> 01:42:04,480
» From what I read, the town could
actually offer a financing package to a

1296
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:07,840
company to come in and run the fiber
optics. [snorts]

1297
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,840
» We have
had fiber optic

1298
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:14,400
» and this is where
>> throughout the whole town until this

1299
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:20,639
that snowstorm
the one that that knocked down

1300
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:26,400
» I'm not aware of that
>> it was all the whole town was wired up

1301
01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:29,119
for fiber optic and then when that
snowstorm came around and

1302
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:32,800
» the ice storm
>> the ice storm

1303
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:39,920
» that took that cut
>> that broke every utility pole in

1304
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:44,480
at the base.
>> You can kind of picture that.

1305
01:42:41,679 --> 01:42:51,199
» I mean, I I understand we have Comcast
cable and I'm not clear why that's not

1306
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:54,480
sufficient,
but I did a little bit of looking into

1307
01:42:53,040 --> 01:43:01,440
it and it sounds like the town could
offer up a bond. So, we would loan the

1308
01:42:57,199 --> 01:43:06,159
money based on the our taxpayers would
be backing it to a company to come in

1309
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:10,159
and
get infrastructure in.

1310
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:15,360
» Well, I think that's what's happening
over in Greenville right now.

1311
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:22,880
» Yeah, there's frequently a broadband
initiative and um the company that would

1312
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:26,960
install the broadband does the math in
terms of how many potential customers

1313
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:35,280
they could get.
>> And then that drives the investment

1314
01:43:30,639 --> 01:43:43,520
number for them. and then they
um pay off the loan, right, based on

1315
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:50,880
their subscriber fees, right?
>> And um basically, um the town's not

1316
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:56,320
really on the hook for if there's enough
potential subscribers for them to pay

1317
01:43:53,119 --> 01:44:00,719
off the bond, they simply do that. It
just saves the utility from having to

1318
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:06,080
take out to do that. The town does it,
but the is

1319
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:11,280
has a hold list so that they won't be on
the hook for it

1320
01:44:08,239 --> 01:44:15,040
» once the utility signs on that's hey we
can pay for this then they own it

1321
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:18,639
basically you borrow the money they're
going to pay it off

1322
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:24,239
» it has some risk
>> and you go ahead and tell which lines

1323
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:32,800
have have or which utility poles have
fiber optic because they'll usually be

1324
01:44:26,719 --> 01:44:37,119
the fiber optic is um uh painted or
covered over uh with

1325
01:44:36,480 --> 01:44:40,000
orange
>> orange. Yeah.

1326
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:44,080
» On the top of the pole.
>> Well, the the line itself you can see it

1327
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:47,360
on the pole.
>> So, they usually run on the poles and

1328
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:50,480
not under
>> on the utility.

1329
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:52,960
» Oh, right. You wouldn't There's not
enough money on Earth to run all

1330
01:44:51,679 --> 01:44:56,320
underground
>> because we grow rocks around here. So,

1331
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:58,880
the digging is terrible. You know that,
right?

1332
01:44:56,800 --> 01:45:04,000
» Yeah. No, they they string it right up
and and so generally

1333
01:45:01,440 --> 01:45:07,199
The lower voltage is closer to
>> it's the lowest one.

1334
01:45:05,679 --> 01:45:08,639
» The higher up you go on the pole, the
higher the voltage is.

1335
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:11,600
» Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1336
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:16,800
» And then they just work out the spacing.
>> Well, actually the second line up which

1337
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:19,840
would be red is for alarm systems.
>> Also,

1338
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:25,119
» in any case,
>> it looked like the options that I saw

1339
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:31,119
for the board and you could do your own
research.

1340
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:37,520
I think I had left them papers at home
on my office desk. They didn't they

1341
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:43,600
didn't appear to me to be um what I
would consider a viable option for us.

1342
01:45:41,440 --> 01:45:48,480
They they carried risk.
>> Yeah.

1343
01:45:44,639 --> 01:45:55,560
» The options that are available
and

1344
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:55,560
» and I mean nowadays the

1345
01:45:55,840 --> 01:46:03,280
internet off of the cable is pretty fast
now compared to where it used to be.

1346
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:06,320
» And
>> yeah, you'd have to do your own test at

1347
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:08,560
home.
>> Yeah.

1348
01:46:06,639 --> 01:46:11,119
» Your up and down speeds.
>> Yeah.

1349
01:46:09,199 --> 01:46:13,920
» But I'm just saying in general,
>> your broadband is got to be 10 times the

1350
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:15,440
download.
>> Yeah.

1351
01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:16,960
» That your cable is.
>> Yeah.

1352
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:20,960
» Imagine.
>> That's true. Yeah.

1353
01:46:18,719 --> 01:46:26,800
Uh, and in fact, that's what I don't
know if you've noticed, but AT&T is uh

1354
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:29,440
having their AT&T
over the air

1355
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:33,920
program.
>> Oh, are they?

1356
01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:39,920
» When is that? Is that available now?
>> It is. Just you call them up and they'll

1357
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:42,920
tell you if uh if it'll actually reach
you.

1358
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:49,119
» I've heard of that. And it's all
>> long time ago. I heard that's how all

1359
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:51,920
the internet was going to be
>> and it it'll be

1360
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:55,280
» digital air waves.
>> Well, you know, you also have satellite

1361
01:46:54,639 --> 01:46:57,119
stuff.
>> Yeah.

1362
01:46:55,600 --> 01:47:02,639
» And that's kind of
>> that's a biggie for Elon Musk.

1363
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:07,119
» Yeah.
>> It's working.

1364
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:14,159
I mean and and even if the risks are
very low to the town, I am more prone to

1365
01:47:10,639 --> 01:47:20,800
be let the market
do what it does. If if a provider sees

1366
01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:25,840
an opportunity in our town, I would
think they would be approaching

1367
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:31,440
us
>> and we wouldn't have to have 20, 30 year

1368
01:47:28,239 --> 01:47:37,199
bonds being [snorts] let out possibly.
>> It's, you know,

1369
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:44,080
It all depends. If AT&T has got a a good
market in a particular area,

1370
01:47:40,159 --> 01:47:47,080
um they're using 5G for uh for their
internet.

1371
01:47:49,040 --> 01:48:05,440
» Unfortunately, we have a great
um antenna up uh

1372
01:47:56,880 --> 01:48:13,040
by wherever that the road is. Um and
that uh the top lines over there are not

1373
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:17,840
AT&T. They're something else
>> on your road.

1374
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:22,080
» No, this is the one. What was the what
was the place that we were we were put

1375
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:26,320
having the um
um

1376
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:31,480
the tower?
>> Oh, older.

1377
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:31,480
» Older room.

1378
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:45,679
And we have an antenna. Uh we we had a
contract on on the application

1379
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:51,679
where um we allowed them to put it in
the way they wanted to, but we had to

1380
01:48:48,239 --> 01:48:53,520
have the top space for that.
>> Yeah. That

1381
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:59,600
» that line
>> last year it was shot down

1382
01:48:56,800 --> 01:49:04,080
on the March ballot. We were we had a
quote to get our emergency services set

1383
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:08,480
up there and it
>> but that was going to be a hard one

1384
01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:12,400
because it was about 186 or 189,000.
>> Now it's probably going to be more

1385
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:15,600
because another year went by,
>> right?

1386
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:24,080
» Yep.
And that's the vertex tower, which we're

1387
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:27,080
unsure of where the uh bond is
extra.

1388
01:49:28,239 --> 01:49:36,480
All right. Do you have any other items,
>> Lou?

1389
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:43,840
» No.
>> I did want to bring up again our uh

1390
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:46,320
warrant for next year. Any thoughts on
it?

1391
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:57,760
just we have to draft up the warrant for
next March. So you look at last year's

1392
01:49:54,560 --> 01:50:02,119
and then consider if the board wants to
put another article in here.

1393
01:50:11,199 --> 01:50:19,040
It's something something we should be
thinking about. And for every year that

1394
01:50:16,159 --> 01:50:26,280
I've been on board, I've said I'd like
to see an article that establishes an

1395
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:26,280
actual budget committee,

1396
01:50:27,440 --> 01:50:35,119
which we have had in the past.
What would that look like?

1397
01:50:32,239 --> 01:50:41,679
» That would be that would take away your
power to set the budget as a select.

1398
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:47,600
» So you could set it up. So basically
it's I believe it's a two3 two vote

1399
01:50:45,119 --> 01:50:53,600
maybe just some
>> um to establish a budget committee and

1400
01:50:49,679 --> 01:50:58,239
then you have the wording and um you
could have the budget committee

1401
01:50:55,600 --> 01:51:04,880
comprised of so many members
probably elected. So they they'd get

1402
01:51:02,159 --> 01:51:10,560
elected town meeting
>> and um they would kind of do what what

1403
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:14,719
Stephanie does, which is that they would
meet with department heads, review their

1404
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:20,400
budgets, make recommendations,
and um and then the board gets to weigh

1405
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:25,280
in
and um on what the budget committee has

1406
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:30,400
done. You could decide you like what
they've done or not like what they've

1407
01:51:26,639 --> 01:51:35,520
done or um and and usually there's a
select board representative on a budget

1408
01:51:32,480 --> 01:51:39,520
committee so that this this body can
kind of be kept in the loop of what that

1409
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:45,040
body is doing.
>> And um and if you want to try to

1410
01:51:42,560 --> 01:51:50,320
influence their decisions on budget just
based based on your experience as a

1411
01:51:47,119 --> 01:51:54,239
select board, you put that input in and
then the budget committee has a public

1412
01:51:52,560 --> 01:52:01,280
hearing on the budget and they present
it to the public and then it goes to

1413
01:51:58,159 --> 01:52:07,599
meeting and there'll be a warn article
recommending it one way or another.

1414
01:52:04,080 --> 01:52:13,360
» So, but it but it does put the budgeting
process into that committees.

1415
01:52:10,639 --> 01:52:18,080
» It does and the authority of the budget.
>> So, it kind of reverses what we have

1416
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:25,360
now. The selectman become more of an
advisory to the budget committee if I'm

1417
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:34,520
understanding it correctly. Yep. Yep.
>> I know last year we had on the ballot to

1418
01:52:29,599 --> 01:52:34,520
turn this to a five member board.

1419
01:52:34,639 --> 01:52:40,880
» And did that pass?
>> No.

1420
01:52:37,679 --> 01:52:45,760
» It's the same.
It was a petitioned article.

1421
01:52:43,199 --> 01:52:51,440
» Yeah.
>> Right here.

1422
01:52:48,480 --> 01:52:59,239
» But I think
In my mind, uh there's a lot that comes

1423
01:52:55,679 --> 01:52:59,239
to this board.

1424
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:12,400
» Yeah, I was pushing that raising the the
board to five.

1425
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:19,280
» Um because that in my opinion it gives
you a a wider spread on ideas from each

1426
01:53:16,639 --> 01:53:23,760
of the people.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We went through pros and

1427
01:53:21,199 --> 01:53:29,080
cons. I was
pretty neutral

1428
01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:29,080
on it,

1429
01:53:31,199 --> 01:53:38,000
but my thought is is that there's a lot
that comes here

1430
01:53:36,400 --> 01:53:46,400
» and
that having a an actual budget committee

1431
01:53:42,239 --> 01:53:51,920
would allow this board to focus on
things that,

1432
01:53:49,119 --> 01:53:58,960
you know, like building number two and
all these things that just have such a

1433
01:53:55,520 --> 01:54:03,599
hard time getting traction
because

1434
01:54:01,440 --> 01:54:07,520
you might just start the ball rolling
and now it's budget season

1435
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:11,360
» but it was taking all the power away
from

1436
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:16,159
» it was for the budget. Yeah, we we the
the select men would become managers of

1437
01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:20,520
what the budget committee
>> but they didn't have the right

1438
01:54:21,199 --> 01:54:27,679
to go against the budget committee.
>> Well, I mean, you can voice your

1439
01:54:25,440 --> 01:54:31,119
opinion. It's America
>> and you're an elect you're elected to

1440
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:34,400
represent the people and if you feel
that the budget committee is going

1441
01:54:32,719 --> 01:54:37,920
against the people, it would be your
duty

1442
01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:42,480
to tell that budget committee you are
not

1443
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:45,440
doing what the people elected and I
don't know if you can do a whole lot

1444
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:49,920
more than that, but you can at least do
that.

1445
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:56,080
» Well, of course, you work with to see
what roads he wants to tackle and get

1446
01:54:53,920 --> 01:55:00,080
some general pricing on that that you
build in.

1447
01:54:58,320 --> 01:55:02,880
» Yeah, we do have an active road
committee.

1448
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:04,960
» Oh, okay.
>> Have you been to any of the meetings

1449
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:06,960
yet?
>> No.

1450
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:12,239
» So, I think they usually have one
towards the end of the year to review.

1451
01:55:10,719 --> 01:55:14,639
Right now, it's ongoing.
>> Yeah.

1452
01:55:12,639 --> 01:55:18,000
» The projects that they slated for this
year.

1453
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:24,639
» Yeah. So I think they will typically
have one to review how that went

1454
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:28,920
and then
double check the list.

1455
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:36,000
» Pretty hard on road because they still
have to do the top coat.

1456
01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:38,239
» I [clears throat] believe I read that
they're working on

1457
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:41,040
» Yeah.
>> Is the paving crew in town yet or do you

1458
01:55:40,639 --> 01:55:45,880
know?
>> Haven't seen

1459
01:55:41,599 --> 01:55:45,880
» they haven't done yet.

1460
01:55:46,239 --> 01:55:57,679
So this budget committee so what um so
the purpose or the reasoning you're

1461
01:55:54,000 --> 01:56:04,239
thinking is
is it similar to the finance committee?

1462
01:56:00,239 --> 01:56:07,280
» No it's it would turn the dynamics that
the if you want to call it the power

1463
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:14,080
dynamics
>> it would be turned on its head.

1464
01:56:09,360 --> 01:56:17,199
» Yeah. They would have the authority.
>> Yeah. Well, is the finance committee

1465
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:20,560
just a
>> their advisory

1466
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:23,760
» volunteer? So, this would probably
actually replace the finance committee.

1467
01:56:22,239 --> 01:56:28,560
Yeah, it would it would evolve
>> and then the budget committee would hold

1468
01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:33,119
I'll say quarterly meetings as often as
they want but quarterly meetings to

1469
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:37,119
monitor the budget produce a report
quarterly budget report [clears throat]

1470
01:56:35,119 --> 01:56:40,639
that could be presented here or at their
own meeting or but somehow you get it

1471
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:43,040
out there so that people can monitor the
budget.

1472
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:47,239
» That was my next question is could they
go further and

1473
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:54,000
do the quarterlys
you know or be in charge of ing them or

1474
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:58,000
assembling it,
>> right?

1475
01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:59,840
» You know, and then presenting that to
the select board,

1476
01:56:59,280 --> 01:57:04,320
» right?
>> Just as a review. And

1477
01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:09,119
» yeah, and you you could we could look at
wording

1478
01:57:06,159 --> 01:57:13,520
that petitioner say no less. They the
budget committee would meet no less than

1479
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:19,520
quarterly. Yeah. Report their results to
the select board.

1480
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:21,360
» Something like that.
>> Yeah. So

1481
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:30,080
» yeah,
>> it hasn't been met with welcome arms by

1482
01:57:26,159 --> 01:57:33,280
no matter who I've served with. Um,
and that's okay. I didn't I haven't

1483
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:38,080
pushed the issue.
>> So, you know, it it's actually

1484
01:57:36,239 --> 01:57:42,080
it's actually not a bad dynamic to have
a five member board and a budget

1485
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:46,639
committee because it it actually
increases the public participation and

1486
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:52,400
transparency in view.
And you know, communities like that. Not

1487
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:55,520
not all of them, but
>> yeah.

1488
01:57:53,599 --> 01:57:58,000
» But then you then you have to actually
find people that want to

1489
01:57:57,280 --> 01:58:01,760
» do the work.
>> This is the problem. That was one of my

1490
01:58:00,159 --> 01:58:06,320
because I like I said, I was pretty
neutral on the fiveman board.

1491
01:58:04,639 --> 01:58:13,280
» There there's definite advantages and
then the disadvantages.

1492
01:58:09,199 --> 01:58:20,480
One that really stuck out at me is you
may end up with a permanently

1493
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:26,960
appointed board members because so the
election happens and nobody puts a name

1494
01:58:22,400 --> 01:58:31,520
in. Now by law we don't
the select men then

1495
01:58:29,440 --> 01:58:36,080
appoint the unfilled thing until next
year.

1496
01:58:33,040 --> 01:58:40,800
So you could it could backfire on you
and you could end up with a more stacked

1497
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:46,719
board.
>> So it was a well if nobody runs then you

1498
01:58:44,239 --> 01:58:53,199
stay three. I mean you get to fill a
vacancy but

1499
01:58:49,440 --> 01:58:59,199
I guess we'd actually want to check
procedurally whether I mean a vacancy

1500
01:58:56,639 --> 01:59:04,560
could be you run you win and then you
die or you move. That's a vacancy.

1501
01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:07,599
But when is a vacancy not a vacancy?
Well, maybe when somebody didn't run in

1502
01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:09,920
the first place.
>> That's just

1503
01:59:08,400 --> 01:59:13,520
» Okay. So, I suppose
>> so we'd have to answer that question.

1504
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:15,440
» It would depend on what So, it's a
quorum.

1505
01:59:14,159 --> 01:59:18,480
» Yeah. Otherwise, you could stack your
own deck. You know what I mean?

1506
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:21,360
» So, I'm just not sure the answer to
that. But,

1507
01:59:19,520 --> 01:59:25,199
» you're right. I didn't think of that.
Three might be the quorum and there

1508
01:59:23,679 --> 01:59:28,800
would be no need.
>> Three would be.

1509
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:34,080
» Yeah. So there might be no need to
appoint

1510
01:59:31,679 --> 01:59:37,760
» maybe I don't know I didn't research
>> I think nor did I think the board would

1511
01:59:35,920 --> 01:59:42,800
have the option
>> I think there'd be a certain amount of

1512
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:46,800
pressure to fill a vacant seat
>> because once the town votes for five

1513
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:50,400
they kind of want five. They don't want
three. They wanted three. They would

1514
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:53,840
have voted for five. So there's a fair
amount of pressure to to replace that

1515
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:59,840
seat
>> to carry out the wishes of the voters.

1516
01:59:57,040 --> 02:00:05,599
Yeah. The the push for the people who
didn't want it was that well now you're

1517
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:10,400
going to be paying three five salaries
instead of three salaries.

1518
02:00:07,119 --> 02:00:13,040
» Well, the the pay rate
>> we make a whole

1519
02:00:12,943 --> 02:00:17,760
[clears throat]
>> that was that was probably from a few

1520
02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:22,880
individuals
>> would say that.

1521
02:00:20,480 --> 02:00:26,599
Well, that's a that's a good point
because um

1522
02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:37,000
you probably want to fix the price in
there so that the budget committee

1523
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:37,000
couldn't

1524
02:00:37,178 --> 02:00:45,599
[laughter]
right put a dollar in there.

1525
02:00:43,280 --> 02:00:52,000
So that that's that's Yeah. So those are
things that which is why a lot of times

1526
02:00:48,000 --> 02:00:55,360
you're elected treasurer have a statuto
warrant article fee and it's not up to

1527
02:00:53,679 --> 02:00:59,440
the board to decide I'm not going to pay
the treasurer. You can't do that because

1528
02:00:57,840 --> 02:01:05,440
they're an independent elected official.
So they typically are associated with a

1529
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:08,760
fixed amount of compensation determined
by the voters.

1530
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:16,719
» Interesting.
So, we're not drafting the warrant now,

1531
02:01:13,440 --> 02:01:24,560
but I want to put that
>> I think it would be beneficial in that

1532
02:01:20,880 --> 02:01:29,679
there are people that we hear from
whose only

1533
02:01:27,040 --> 02:01:32,960
concern is finances.
>> Sure.

1534
02:01:30,639 --> 02:01:38,239
» That's their only concern. And then we
have others who are like, "Hey,

1535
02:01:36,080 --> 02:01:45,639
» what are you doing with building two?" I
mean, I know they're very closely

1536
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:45,639
related, the finances and that, but

1537
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:52,960
» there's a lot of work and and I think as
sitting in this chair

1538
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:57,599
» and people ask how much time do you have
to give

1539
02:01:54,880 --> 02:02:02,000
» have to give you got to come to these
meetings

1540
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:07,040
at least most of them all right if you
want to go minimum

1541
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:10,800
but could give
80 hours a week

1542
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:15,280
» or more.
>> Yeah, you could. And so

1543
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:21,199
» yeah,
>> and certainly

1544
02:02:16,639 --> 02:02:24,880
» town administrator point of view
>> um I mean you are responsible for

1545
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:28,560
running the town and you do get to make
those decisions

1546
02:02:26,159 --> 02:02:32,639
» and so yeah you you it's not just
showing up at meetings because you have

1547
02:02:30,239 --> 02:02:36,480
to you have to understand enough about
the operations and the departments in

1548
02:02:34,880 --> 02:02:40,480
order to get to a meeting like this and
make sound decisions with the

1549
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:42,639
information. So yeah, no, it's a
commitment.

1550
02:02:41,679 --> 02:02:45,360
» It's a commitment.
>> It is.

1551
02:02:43,199 --> 02:02:51,840
» But but that in a way that also makes
five person board easier because you can

1552
02:02:47,679 --> 02:02:54,480
say, well, you're DPW, you're police,
fire, you're somebody else, you're

1553
02:02:53,119 --> 02:02:58,000
somebody else. You kind of divvy up the
workload

1554
02:02:56,000 --> 02:03:05,880
and then those people kind of report in
just like you

1555
02:02:59,840 --> 02:03:05,880
» on on, you know, what what's going on.

1556
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:16,239
» Yeah. I just wonder on
I mean I can see for the future reality.

1557
02:03:14,159 --> 02:03:24,880
It's probably
something that I guess I don't know my

1558
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:31,360
what I think of it, but I do know like
as a board like um

1559
02:03:28,880 --> 02:03:36,960
I wouldn't want to
pile more onto another committee

1560
02:03:34,639 --> 02:03:42,480
without
knowing exactly like I don't know if

1561
02:03:39,199 --> 02:03:46,560
it'd be a good idea to add one now.
>> Yeah. Well, And that would it would go

1562
02:03:44,480 --> 02:03:49,119
on the one right next year.
>> Yeah.

1563
02:03:47,199 --> 02:03:50,719
» We can't that's something only the
voters can do.

1564
02:03:50,159 --> 02:03:52,800
» Correct.
>> Is this budget committee

1565
02:03:52,239 --> 02:03:56,320
» Yeah.
>> idea. Yeah.

1566
02:03:56,300 --> 02:04:00,719
[clears throat]
>> And in fact I think the same applies

1567
02:03:58,239 --> 02:04:04,320
with the finance advisory committee. It
is the voters who approve it.

1568
02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:07,679
» Are those elected position?
>> They're not elected. Okay.

1569
02:04:05,599 --> 02:04:10,800
» There's an advisor you appoint them
>> but the selectmen are okay.

1570
02:04:09,760 --> 02:04:15,280
» The appointees.
>> Okay.

1571
02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:21,119
winters. Sorry.
>> Yeah.

1572
02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:27,840
» Well, you know, you you've had Is this
your third default budget in 10 years or

1573
02:04:24,800 --> 02:04:32,320
so? At least the second, isn't it?
>> It could be

1574
02:04:30,239 --> 02:04:37,280
somewhere in there.
So maybe

1575
02:04:34,239 --> 02:04:40,400
maybe a budget committee would help help
people

1576
02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:44,480
learn about the budget, understand the
budget, get more involvement. You know,

1577
02:04:42,800 --> 02:04:50,880
the budget committee could make periodic
reports in whatever way they want. Just

1578
02:04:47,679 --> 02:04:56,719
go right on the website or
newsletter or something or report it out

1579
02:04:52,960 --> 02:05:02,159
here in minutes. But
there is a process that's helpful to

1580
02:04:59,440 --> 02:05:05,520
educate the public on the budget so they
can understand what it is they're paying

1581
02:05:03,679 --> 02:05:08,719
for, particularly if it goes up.
Obviously, if it goes up because it's

1582
02:05:06,800 --> 02:05:12,159
going to go up forever. It'll go up
forever. Utilities are going to cost

1583
02:05:10,800 --> 02:05:16,560
more. Labor is going to cost more.
Health insurance is going to cost more.

1584
02:05:13,440 --> 02:05:21,920
On and on it goes. And and you're not
necessarily adding services.

1585
02:05:19,280 --> 02:05:30,719
It's just I mean look at the 30%
increase in dump trucks for example.

1586
02:05:26,080 --> 02:05:35,920
» I mean fire engines gone from 800,000 to
1.2 million.

1587
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:37,599
» So the select can also do that as well.
>> Yeah.

1588
02:05:36,239 --> 02:05:41,119
» I mean the select can
>> No, that's absolutely true.

1589
02:05:38,719 --> 02:05:44,560
» Once we get the full understanding of it
to be able to present it,

1590
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:49,199
» we will have to
>> hold a budget hearing, public hearing

1591
02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:54,040
just like a budget committee would.
Yeah,

1592
02:05:50,239 --> 02:05:54,040
» that's coming up.

1593
02:05:54,159 --> 02:06:01,920
» Yeah. So, that was one thought I had and
we will be voting on our next year's

1594
02:05:59,679 --> 02:06:05,119
warrant at some point of what we're
going to have.

1595
02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:09,679
» Do you typically get any communication
from the planning board or zoning? They

1596
02:06:08,159 --> 02:06:14,400
will
they

1597
02:06:11,119 --> 02:06:25,679
» planning boards ends up
having CIP trying to um

1598
02:06:20,239 --> 02:06:32,719
target as to when the next police car or
>> or um um police car,

1599
02:06:31,520 --> 02:06:38,960
» right?
>> Yeah. dump truck

1600
02:06:36,239 --> 02:06:45,199
would be targeted to come in. And
actually, I did one that went back like

1601
02:06:42,079 --> 02:06:52,320
20 years. And you know, it actually
stayed fairly consistent that a dump

1602
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:52,320
truck was good for 12 years.

1603
02:06:52,560 --> 02:07:01,119
A um
the back hole was good for

1604
02:06:58,719 --> 02:07:04,800
I think it was like nine years and then
traded in for a new one because that way

1605
02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:08,560
it still had some value.
>> Yeah.

1606
02:07:06,159 --> 02:07:12,960
» Etc. etc.
>> So you're talking zoning ordinances or

1607
02:07:11,599 --> 02:07:16,719
» Yeah. sort of a thing.
>> Yeah.

1608
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:18,480
» Yeah. They they typically are working
>> Okay.

1609
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:24,719
» independent of us.
>> Okay. and we'll just we'll see when

1610
02:07:21,440 --> 02:07:29,440
they're done, we'll find out
what article number our budget is and

1611
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:32,440
then we begin from there.
>> Mhm.

1612
02:07:32,639 --> 02:07:42,560
» So, the other one I had in mind was um
breaking apart

1613
02:07:39,040 --> 02:07:48,159
what was article 9 last year uh the
capital reserves and expendable trust.

1614
02:07:46,320 --> 02:07:52,320
I've noticed
towns do it

1615
02:07:50,560 --> 02:08:00,239
similar to this in other towns. Just
break them right apart

1616
02:07:55,199 --> 02:08:07,679
and it makes for a long warrant. We have
one, two, three, four,

1617
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:13,760
» nine of them in one article.
I think it could be combined like

1618
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:20,719
highway department expendable trust,
building maintenance expendable trust.

1619
02:08:17,840 --> 02:08:25,679
them could be together.
>> Yeah. Fire has three. Them could go

1620
02:08:23,119 --> 02:08:31,000
together.
>> And then pool and parks and rec could go

1621
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,000
together.

1622
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:40,880
» How does your town do it?
>> Um, it's a mix, but I think we kind of

1623
02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:43,119
break them up into categories.
>> Yeah.

1624
02:08:41,280 --> 02:08:47,040
» I mean, you know, some people like the
fire department, they don't like the

1625
02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:50,480
police. Some people like
Okay, they just pass the whole thing.

1626
02:08:48,800 --> 02:08:54,800
But
>> but

1627
02:08:52,480 --> 02:08:58,159
um
I think for the moderator it can be a

1628
02:08:56,560 --> 02:09:03,760
little easier. I mean I read all of
these and make sure that people

1629
02:08:59,520 --> 02:09:07,520
understand what's in there just because
and so you throw out too many numbers

1630
02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:10,239
and by the time you get to the fourth
number, you've forgotten the first

1631
02:09:08,639 --> 02:09:16,639
number.
>> You know, you've got a good moderator.

1632
02:09:13,920 --> 02:09:23,760
But you you saw what happened last year.
The whole thing was voted down and it

1633
02:09:20,560 --> 02:09:28,880
may have been because of
I don't know. It's hard to say what it

1634
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:35,040
was, but possibly
some of them may have passed

1635
02:09:33,119 --> 02:09:40,000
had they been separate had they been
separated.

1636
02:09:36,719 --> 02:09:44,320
» But you know that but you could you can
always make an amendment from the floor.

1637
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:51,760
I move that we
amend article 9 by

1638
02:09:47,840 --> 02:09:57,440
deleting X and X and if the crowd wants
to do it then that article goes amended

1639
02:09:54,880 --> 02:10:02,000
» that was that deliberative session.
>> Yeah, that was attempted at the

1640
02:09:58,719 --> 02:10:07,360
deliberative but somehow
the

1641
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:14,079
person who was not trying to make this
adjustment to it got sidetracked.

1642
02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:20,159
» Okay. and got thrown off course I think
because of the discussion it ended up

1643
02:10:16,639 --> 02:10:27,599
starting to going to
I I [snorts] don't recall but

1644
02:10:23,440 --> 02:10:31,679
I think it would make sense to have
four

1645
02:10:29,960 --> 02:10:34,639
[clears throat] it's something again
we're not voting on it tonight but it's

1646
02:10:33,360 --> 02:10:41,119
something for the board to think about
and I've had a few a few people um

1647
02:10:39,040 --> 02:10:45,360
request
both within the town

1648
02:10:44,800 --> 02:10:50,239
and
>> and request what?

1649
02:10:47,760 --> 02:10:54,440
» Separated capital reserves.
>> Reserves. Yeah.

1650
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:54,440
» Requests.

1651
02:10:54,719 --> 02:11:04,880
» Yeah.
>> Well, we had, you know, some big numbers

1652
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:09,520
there because as far as the uh the tower
that was going to beundred, I think it

1653
02:11:07,119 --> 02:11:15,119
was 86. That was Yeah, that was just a
warrant and I I hope it comes on again

1654
02:11:11,599 --> 02:11:19,040
because I think we need it. That was a
communication for the emergency

1655
02:11:17,119 --> 02:11:25,040
services. Yeah, you're right. It was
180,000.

1656
02:11:20,639 --> 02:11:32,800
» Yeah. Yeah. And [clears throat] um
but there was also a small cadre of of

1657
02:11:29,280 --> 02:11:39,599
individuals that was on a push of you
know we don't want anything out there

1658
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:42,880
because it's going to cost money and
we're paying too much taxes as it is

1659
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:48,000
now. [clears throat]
>> That was in a small cadre. That was the

1660
02:11:44,960 --> 02:11:51,199
majority. That's why everything got
voted no right through us and through

1661
02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:57,280
the school.
>> There was a small cadre that started off

1662
02:11:54,880 --> 02:12:01,360
you know with that whole concept and
then that uh got spread out throughout

1663
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:03,280
all the
>> Yeah.

1664
02:12:02,079 --> 02:12:07,760
» I don't know. I'll leave it to the
political analysts they can figure out

1665
02:12:05,199 --> 02:12:12,440
what happened. All I heard was too much
money being spent.

1666
02:12:13,440 --> 02:12:18,800
Yeah. Then we had a we'll have petition
work,

1667
02:12:16,639 --> 02:12:21,840
» you know, look at what the that things
that we had no control over like the

1668
02:12:20,639 --> 02:12:23,920
school budget.
>> Yeah.

1669
02:12:22,079 --> 02:12:25,920
» Right. The school budget went up to what
24 million.

1670
02:12:25,119 --> 02:12:31,119
» Mhm.
>> Yeah.

1671
02:12:28,400 --> 02:12:34,159
And uh and that's a big kick.
>> Yeah.

1672
02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:37,920
» You know, especially for a school that's
got what 800 students or something like

1673
02:12:36,880 --> 02:12:41,760
that.
>> Now, when we had the reps here, they

1674
02:12:40,306 --> 02:12:46,480
[clears throat] confirmed what the
moderator said. there is going to be a

1675
02:12:44,400 --> 02:12:52,079
school
um budget tax cap.

1676
02:12:50,480 --> 02:12:56,320
I don't know. Is that a referendum
question? Kind of.

1677
02:12:54,400 --> 02:12:59,920
» It's kind of a real weird dynamic
because the state is putting it on the

1678
02:12:58,239 --> 02:13:05,760
ballot.
If our towns vote for it, we're

1679
02:13:03,440 --> 02:13:10,960
the school board then has to institute
it, which

1680
02:13:07,119 --> 02:13:14,400
» unless unless it's there's a override
vote by the taxpayers

1681
02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:16,400
» on the March vote.
>> Yeah.

1682
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:22,560
» So,
>> yeah, write it. I think

1683
02:13:19,599 --> 02:13:27,599
» I think it's might even be two vote.
>> Yeah, I think so.

1684
02:13:25,119 --> 02:13:31,679
» But something but you can override it, I
think.

1685
02:13:28,000 --> 02:13:37,520
» And you can do it temporarily
>> for a year. you can say no this year we

1686
02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:41,599
need to go more than so there's that was
attempted

1687
02:13:39,199 --> 02:13:46,079
three years ago here
and then subsequent years and it was

1688
02:13:43,679 --> 02:13:49,920
attempted last year with both the town
and the school

1689
02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:56,800
» yeah I mean in a matter of three years
it went from it was

1690
02:13:53,280 --> 02:14:02,159
17,000 18,000 to
I'm sorry

1691
02:13:57,679 --> 02:14:09,760
» million million rather up to
And that's a big jump for an area with

1692
02:14:06,800 --> 02:14:16,239
with this many students.
>> And like I said during the the um

1693
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:22,719
conference with the um
with the people running is that um you

1694
02:14:19,920 --> 02:14:28,960
know they're only graduating
um 18 to 24 students

1695
02:14:26,400 --> 02:14:33,920
per year out of the out of the high
school. And you you're paying $24

1696
02:14:32,079 --> 02:14:38,480
million to
>> Yeah. The numbers change. Yeah. I don't

1697
02:14:36,639 --> 02:14:43,360
know what the
>> Well, in large measure, the numbers

1698
02:14:40,719 --> 02:14:48,800
change at the school level because the
state pulls back the funding that

1699
02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:52,000
they've historically done. Like they
required

1700
02:14:50,320 --> 02:14:56,560
transportation for out of school
placement for disabilities and so forth

1701
02:14:55,119 --> 02:14:59,440
and they used to fund it. Well, then
they decided, well, we're not going to

1702
02:14:57,679 --> 02:15:03,360
pay that bill anymore. So you have to
pay it. They still require you to

1703
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:06,320
provide all these services,
>> but now you have to pay for it. You

1704
02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:09,199
didn't have to pay for it before.
>> But that wasn't happening here.

1705
02:15:08,159 --> 02:15:12,320
» Oh yes, it is.
>> It just happen.

1706
02:15:10,000 --> 02:15:15,920
» It has because you're subject to the
same state funding for transportation,

1707
02:15:14,079 --> 02:15:19,199
special ed, out of school placement, and
all the rest because it's just part of

1708
02:15:17,440 --> 02:15:21,280
the state budget.
>> So

1709
02:15:19,760 --> 02:15:24,239
» yeah. Well, it could be part of the
state budget, but

1710
02:15:22,079 --> 02:15:28,800
» but it's important, I think, for the
taxpayers to understand

1711
02:15:26,880 --> 02:15:33,760
what are the expenses that we've
actually increased because we made that

1712
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:38,239
decision and what's the impact of cost
shifting at the state level because the

1713
02:15:36,800 --> 02:15:41,199
state always likes to say, "Oh, we're
living within our means." Well, no,

1714
02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:45,040
they're not. They're just not paying the
bills anymore and they're shoving them

1715
02:15:43,360 --> 02:15:50,000
down to you and you can't avoid them
because otherwise you'll violate the

1716
02:15:46,960 --> 02:15:54,480
statute. And so, there's the shifting
argument, but then there's also the

1717
02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:59,840
local increase itself and you have to be
able to distinguish those.

1718
02:15:56,159 --> 02:16:02,880
» So, how can the town fight that
>> elect different people to the

1719
02:16:01,119 --> 02:16:05,520
legislature to actually fund the
promises and stop breaking them?

1720
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:10,159
» It did the same.
>> I'm just saying if the state decided to

1721
02:16:07,679 --> 02:16:13,920
say, hey, it's your problem now.
>> They've been doing it for a decade.

1722
02:16:11,440 --> 02:16:17,440
» Well, they've been doing it over
>> it was discussed and the problem I think

1723
02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:21,040
I think that
>> that's been 15 years that Yeah.

1724
02:16:20,560 --> 02:16:26,159
» Claremont.
>> What's it down? Claremont. Yeah.

1725
02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:29,679
» And it's just, you know, the judges came
down on them or the Supreme Court came

1726
02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:33,519
down on them saying, "You have to pay
this."

1727
02:16:30,880 --> 02:16:38,479
» And and nobody's doing it,
>> right? And you know why? Because

1728
02:16:36,639 --> 02:16:42,639
» the Supreme Court can say, "Hey, you
should fund education better."

1729
02:16:40,319 --> 02:16:46,160
» But they don't have the ability, the
authority to appropriate the money,

1730
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:50,240
» the money to make [clears throat] that
happen. That's the legislature. So

1731
02:16:48,880 --> 02:16:53,679
Supreme Court can say whatever they
want. They can't force the legislature

1732
02:16:51,760 --> 02:16:57,280
to fund it. They just can't. They never
have. That's why it's been unresolved 15

1733
02:16:56,559 --> 02:17:00,880
years.
>> So, so there is

1734
02:16:58,479 --> 02:17:07,040
» the municipal level
um the state encouraged every community

1735
02:17:04,399 --> 02:17:10,719
to join the state retirement system and
they promised that they would pay a

1736
02:17:08,880 --> 02:17:14,880
substantial percentage. That was the
endorsement. They made that promise.

1737
02:17:13,040 --> 02:17:20,800
Well, then four or five years ago, they
decided maybe not so much. So, they

1738
02:17:18,800 --> 02:17:26,319
pulled the funding from like 50% now
back to 35%. And then they went to zero.

1739
02:17:23,679 --> 02:17:28,399
That added millions and millions of
dollars onto the back of the property

1740
02:17:27,840 --> 02:17:31,359
taxpayer.
>> Oh, check out the retirement line on on

1741
02:17:30,800 --> 02:17:35,519
payroll.
>> Yeah. You never used to pay that because

1742
02:17:33,359 --> 02:17:38,559
the state broke its promise and they
said, "Oh, we can't afford that

1743
02:17:37,040 --> 02:17:42,080
anymore."
What they done down here at the

1744
02:17:40,559 --> 02:17:46,479
property? We said, "What are we supposed
to do?" Oh, you'll just have to pay it.

1745
02:17:44,399 --> 02:17:50,719
So, yeah, the state lived within its
means because they're picking your

1746
02:17:48,399 --> 02:17:55,359
pocket and they're forcing their bills
down onto you

1747
02:17:53,280 --> 02:17:59,280
» and that's why most people's property
taxes have increased.

1748
02:17:56,800 --> 02:18:04,000
» So, that's that is one aspect. And the
retirement thing I I agree with the

1749
02:18:02,479 --> 02:18:10,000
school funding.
>> Um, it depends if you want the thing is

1750
02:18:06,880 --> 02:18:14,800
is if you want the state to take and
start kicking in more

1751
02:18:12,559 --> 02:18:20,240
What happens?
You know what happens is the state now

1752
02:18:17,920 --> 02:18:25,840
because if the state is going to be
funding the majority of our education

1753
02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:30,639
cost, they will control.
>> And it was brought up when we had the uh

1754
02:18:27,920 --> 02:18:35,200
representatives here. They said, not
that it would happen in Newswitch, but

1755
02:18:32,719 --> 02:18:39,359
maybe the state would look and say,
"Hey, you don't have enough students.

1756
02:18:37,760 --> 02:18:43,200
We're shutting your district down.
you're moving your kids

1757
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:48,319
to
>> Limeboro because we're not going to keep

1758
02:18:46,000 --> 02:18:53,840
funding you when you only have this many
students. And so there there is a

1759
02:18:51,280 --> 02:18:58,240
there's a balancing act to be had there.
>> Yeah. But look at the problems that

1760
02:18:55,519 --> 02:19:00,240
Peter or that school district is having
now.

1761
02:18:58,800 --> 02:19:02,800
» Look at every school district.
>> Yeah.

1762
02:19:00,479 --> 02:19:08,639
» Right. I mean Peterbr's lo are they
losing students and then to keep the

1763
02:19:05,599 --> 02:19:12,559
buildings open becomes the
>> yeah you have a certain amount of cost

1764
02:19:10,479 --> 02:19:15,599
regardless of if there's any difference
>> right if you have a 100 less students

1765
02:19:14,080 --> 02:19:18,000
the building costs don't change
>> they don't keep the heat and the lights

1766
02:19:17,760 --> 02:19:22,719
on
>> still mass mass yeah still going to fix

1767
02:19:21,280 --> 02:19:29,760
the roof
>> although you can decommission a building

1768
02:19:26,639 --> 02:19:34,080
and consolidate
True.

1769
02:19:32,319 --> 02:19:39,439
» So that but that can be a local
decision.

1770
02:19:35,920 --> 02:19:42,399
But if if it becomes a state funded
system.

1771
02:19:39,920 --> 02:19:47,599
» Yeah. But but see I don't no see I
disagree because the state used to fund

1772
02:19:44,000 --> 02:19:54,080
it. They decided that they wanted to
give a break. Uh they wanted to reduce

1773
02:19:51,200 --> 02:19:58,560
the revenue they collect from at the
state level from like the business

1774
02:19:55,520 --> 02:20:03,920
enterprise and and that sort of thing.
So they reduced the they reduced their

1775
02:20:01,600 --> 02:20:09,600
budget and they shifted those costs.
They don't have any more or less control

1776
02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:14,560
now than they've ever had. Um they just
don't want to pay for it anymore.

1777
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:16,240
» I've actually done quite a bit of
analysis on it. I have to send you the

1778
02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:20,720
article.
>> I did read your I did read that.

1779
02:20:18,880 --> 02:20:22,880
» The numbers don't lie. Those are state
numbers. Those are the numbers from the

1780
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:25,040
DRA.
>> Can you send me a copy of that?

1781
02:20:24,399 --> 02:20:28,640
» Sure.
>> Maybe

1782
02:20:26,960 --> 02:20:30,399
Jason. I don't know if I can remember
where I saw it [clears throat] when when

1783
02:20:30,080 --> 02:20:33,520
we were
>> It was It was in a news news. It was in

1784
02:20:32,479 --> 02:20:35,600
a magazine.
>> Yeah.

1785
02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:38,640
» Yeah.
>> NHMA magazine.

1786
02:20:36,800 --> 02:20:41,760
» It was NHMA
>> that had the article.

1787
02:20:40,000 --> 02:20:43,920
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, that's interesting.

1788
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:47,600
» Yeah.
>> It was an interesting night with our

1789
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:51,359
» actually if you if you remember my
bottom line,

1790
02:20:49,200 --> 02:20:56,000
» if the state hadn't been downshifting
costs for the last 10 years, the local

1791
02:20:54,000 --> 02:21:00,479
property tax would actually be lower
today.

1792
02:20:57,280 --> 02:21:05,439
than what was 10 years ago.
>> And what would the state property tax

1793
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:07,200
look like with inflation?
>> Whatever it is.

1794
02:21:06,319 --> 02:21:10,000
» Yeah.
>> That's the problem.

1795
02:21:07,920 --> 02:21:13,200
» Would my bill
>> how the bill? No.

1796
02:21:11,439 --> 02:21:16,720
» Because the state collected the revenue
from other sources.

1797
02:21:15,120 --> 02:21:23,359
» Now, you might have paid more on your
business enterprise

1798
02:21:18,880 --> 02:21:25,439
tax or broken meals or something, but
but

1799
02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:29,439
» Yeah.
The numbers are very very good. They

1800
02:21:27,588 --> 02:21:35,600
[laughter] the state has deliberately
lowered the revenue it gets and they've

1801
02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:40,000
shifted but there but their law and the
requirements and the functions haven't

1802
02:21:37,439 --> 02:21:42,479
changed. And so whatever that takes to
pay for it now is on the back of the

1803
02:21:41,439 --> 02:21:47,040
property tax
>> and there is an amendment in our

1804
02:21:45,040 --> 02:21:52,160
constitution
that

1805
02:21:49,280 --> 02:21:58,640
forbids the state from doing that.
>> Sure. The Supreme Court

1806
02:21:55,439 --> 02:22:02,080
» has never bought into that because they
say, "Well, you were paying some

1807
02:22:00,240 --> 02:22:05,520
property tax before you. You
participated a little bit in school

1808
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:13,200
funding, so therefore it's not a new
tax. You're just paying 50% more of it.

1809
02:22:10,479 --> 02:22:16,160
» So, it's a joke, people. It's a joke."
But this is why I say you answer your

1810
02:22:15,040 --> 02:22:21,280
question.
>> What's going to change it? elect people

1811
02:22:18,720 --> 02:22:25,359
to conquer that actually care about the
property tax because right now it's just

1812
02:22:22,960 --> 02:22:30,160
a dumping ground for the state because
they know they can simply say we're not

1813
02:22:27,760 --> 02:22:36,479
going to pay this anymore and you get to
pay it

1814
02:22:31,840 --> 02:22:41,359
» and you have no sales tax,
>> right? That is true. That is true.

1815
02:22:39,439 --> 02:22:44,080
» Yeah, that's a touchy subject.
>> It is.

1816
02:22:42,080 --> 02:22:49,120
» I guess sales and income.
>> Yeah. But I but here I'm not a uh I

1817
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:54,720
don't like the car shifting, but I also
don't think an income tax is is the

1818
02:22:50,960 --> 02:22:59,520
solution because in every state that's
uh implemented an income tax, it hasn't

1819
02:22:57,760 --> 02:23:01,520
changed the budget. People pay just as
much. They just pay differently,

1820
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:08,000
» right?
>> Yeah. I have friends down in like

1821
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:14,560
Boilston, Mass, and they don't pay a lot
less in property tax than me.

1822
02:23:10,479 --> 02:23:20,080
» They pay fairly similar.
And you do pay less, but not by much.

1823
02:23:17,439 --> 02:23:26,080
» And that's the problem with the taxes.
And I think the argument

1824
02:23:23,280 --> 02:23:31,040
for local control,
we got defaulted. When was the last time

1825
02:23:28,240 --> 02:23:36,479
the state got defaulted?
They don't. No, they they actually don't

1826
02:23:34,479 --> 02:23:42,319
need to because they can reduce their
budget and downshift those costs because

1827
02:23:39,439 --> 02:23:45,200
they're the legislature. Remember, the
legisle passed a law, for example, that

1828
02:23:44,160 --> 02:23:50,479
said, "Hey, we're going to share the
Roman meals tax. You're going to get

1829
02:23:46,720 --> 02:23:54,479
$100." And then they said, "Well, I'm
not going to give you the $100." And you

1830
02:23:52,160 --> 02:23:57,200
say, "Well, I know, but the law says
we're going to get $100." They said,

1831
02:23:56,000 --> 02:24:01,520
"Well, guess what? We're going to change
the law." They said, "No, you only get

1832
02:23:58,640 --> 02:24:04,880
$50." So, we've changed the law. We
changed what we're going to give you,

1833
02:24:02,479 --> 02:24:09,760
and you still have to pay the bill. And
they've done that year after year. It's

1834
02:24:07,280 --> 02:24:13,040
amazing. It's amazing. It is like a
house of cards. It's like a slight of

1835
02:24:11,760 --> 02:24:20,680
hand.
They change the laws as to them

1836
02:24:16,160 --> 02:24:20,680
» and they shove the burden down to you

1837
02:24:22,475 --> 02:24:24,494
[laughter]

1838
02:24:26,479 --> 02:24:34,000
» numbers are what they are. Those are
state numbers. I'll send you the article

1839
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:34,000
to find it again.

1840
02:24:34,960 --> 02:24:43,359
So the ideal is that the state would do
these things without being big brother,

1841
02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:48,479
» right? Well,
>> they would fund them and not be

1842
02:24:46,640 --> 02:24:52,640
» taken away the local control.
>> That's fine. If more people ran after

1843
02:24:50,880 --> 02:24:59,040
House of Senate
>> on a platform of property tax reform

1844
02:24:55,920 --> 02:25:04,720
» and getting the state to pay its way,
you'd see a change. But it would it

1845
02:25:02,160 --> 02:25:08,880
would kind of go back to Mr. Doyle's
argument.

1846
02:25:06,880 --> 02:25:11,680
We would still pay.
>> Well, one way or another, somebody's got

1847
02:25:10,319 --> 02:25:16,240
to pay for government.
>> Yeah, that's a problem.

1848
02:25:14,160 --> 02:25:20,479
» Well, yeah. Only if you want roads,
bridges, healthcare, electricity,

1849
02:25:18,800 --> 02:25:23,280
» and don't forget
>> don't forget

1850
02:25:21,200 --> 02:25:25,840
» you go off the grid.
>> Yeah. Roads, bridges.

1851
02:25:24,479 --> 02:25:31,120
» They've actually been throwing a lot of
money into roads.

1852
02:25:27,439 --> 02:25:35,280
» Yeah. over the last five, 10 years.
>> Here's another thing. The the gas tax,

1853
02:25:33,600 --> 02:25:38,240
right? They had a perfectly well
constructed

1854
02:25:36,479 --> 02:25:40,479
» system of maintaining the state growth
by collecting 25 cents from you,

1855
02:25:40,080 --> 02:25:46,319
» right?
>> Or 50 cents when you go through a toll.

1856
02:25:43,280 --> 02:25:50,479
» But they've never actually implemented
because they're so they don't want to

1857
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:56,319
raise the toll and so the roads
deteriorate. And so their aid to roads

1858
02:25:53,760 --> 02:26:00,000
and bridges that some of which came down
to local isn't there anymore. So guess

1859
02:25:58,319 --> 02:26:04,160
what? Now you have to pay for those
roads more than you used to. Why?

1860
02:26:02,560 --> 02:26:07,600
Because they had a perfectly good plan
to maintain the state infrastructure,

1861
02:26:06,080 --> 02:26:09,120
but they're too they don't want to fund
it,

1862
02:26:07,920 --> 02:26:14,000
» right?
>> So there you go.

1863
02:26:12,080 --> 02:26:18,560
» Somebody's got to pay for it.
>> They say like a gas tax is what? Like

1864
02:26:18,000 --> 02:26:21,120
» 40 cents.
>> 40 something.

1865
02:26:19,439 --> 02:26:26,319
» 42 cents.
>> Yeah. that goes to

1866
02:26:24,000 --> 02:26:28,399
» and now the electric cars
>> bypass it.

1867
02:26:27,680 --> 02:26:31,760
» No,
>> well they do

1868
02:26:29,359 --> 02:26:35,439
» electric cars actually their
registration is higher than

1869
02:26:33,680 --> 02:26:40,720
» that was explained to us. They did get
the electric car fee to offset the loss

1870
02:26:38,399 --> 02:26:46,000
in revenue of gas tax. But
>> and with an electric car though there is

1871
02:26:43,920 --> 02:26:52,640
I mean I don't have the data but if you
think about it if you're using power

1872
02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:58,720
that's Also, you know, they it's a lot
of well, it's greener,

1873
02:26:55,600 --> 02:27:02,399
» but you still have a power plant or
something generating the power to be a

1874
02:27:01,120 --> 02:27:05,600
And what's that pollution?
>> Something's chugging away.

1875
02:27:03,439 --> 02:27:12,960
» If you add more to it, you
>> used as many ounces of fossil fuel to

1876
02:27:10,479 --> 02:27:18,000
create the batteries and the currents
and everything as as you would if you

1877
02:27:15,040 --> 02:27:26,399
use if you if you burn.
But there is still at least with the

1878
02:27:21,120 --> 02:27:29,520
» the same amount of of wear and tear
um with electric cars that they do as

1879
02:27:28,960 --> 02:27:30,720
gas cars
>> on the road.

1880
02:27:30,319 --> 02:27:33,200
» On the road
>> and I've heard it's more

1881
02:27:32,560 --> 02:27:36,399
» well they're heavier.
>> They're heavier

1882
02:27:34,080 --> 02:27:41,359
» because of batteries. I don't know if it
gives more weight to generally

1883
02:27:38,479 --> 02:27:44,399
» at least with my gas powered truck I
don't have to park it 200 feet away from

1884
02:27:43,359 --> 02:27:48,120
the building because it might
spontaneously combust.

1885
02:27:49,920 --> 02:27:57,600
Yeah. Anyways, that was good. Good. It
was a good meeting with the reps and it

1886
02:27:54,800 --> 02:28:00,880
spawned this discussion really took up
the bulk of it was education funding.

1887
02:28:00,160 --> 02:28:04,000
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, all they have to do is pay

1888
02:28:02,479 --> 02:28:06,960
what they used to pay. I'm not even
talking about increasing. Just pay what

1889
02:28:05,359 --> 02:28:09,280
you used to pay
>> because [snorts and clears throat] we're

1890
02:28:08,000 --> 02:28:12,399
used to it back then.
>> Yeah.

1891
02:28:10,319 --> 02:28:18,160
So, I'm anticipating we are going to see
another um petitioned article for strict

1892
02:28:15,359 --> 02:28:24,080
operating budget increase
limitation policy.

1893
02:28:20,720 --> 02:28:28,560
» This one passed last year and when it
passed, I said, "Well, there's a

1894
02:28:25,520 --> 02:28:31,120
referendum to the select one."
>> Which one passed?

1895
02:28:29,840 --> 02:28:36,319
» That was number 21.
>> 21. There's a petition article, but

1896
02:28:33,760 --> 02:28:43,120
» it didn't follow the correct
format because the state sets up these

1897
02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:48,000
things that we hear about so often
called RSAs and the procedure wasn't

1898
02:28:45,439 --> 02:28:50,640
followed by this petitioner. And so our
attorney said it's actually not

1899
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:54,720
enforceable.
>> Oh.

1900
02:28:51,840 --> 02:29:01,319
» Because
there was supposed to be another part of

1901
02:28:56,880 --> 02:29:01,319
it before this was submitted.

1902
02:29:01,439 --> 02:29:07,680
However, the point got across and I
think it'll be back and perhaps it'll be

1903
02:29:06,000 --> 02:29:14,720
back
done in the correct policy.

1904
02:29:11,600 --> 02:29:18,880
I mean procedure. Sorry.
>> The problem with the CPI is it doesn't

1905
02:29:16,479 --> 02:29:20,319
really track what you're what government
does.

1906
02:29:20,000 --> 02:29:24,399
» Yeah.
>> You know, nobody's

1907
02:29:22,080 --> 02:29:28,319
» it's a starting point is all it was. And
I think they took that verbiage from the

1908
02:29:26,720 --> 02:29:34,479
state.
>> They might have. thinks so if I recall,

1909
02:29:32,240 --> 02:29:38,319
» but that the CPI has no connection to
the price of a fire engine or an

1910
02:29:36,240 --> 02:29:40,720
ambulance or health insurance.
>> No,

1911
02:29:38,880 --> 02:29:46,800
» you know, nobody's health insurance went
up 3%.

1912
02:29:42,960 --> 02:29:52,240
» Right. Right. Right. So, and most of
what this budget is is labor. Labor and

1913
02:29:50,479 --> 02:29:57,280
heavy equipment.
>> There's a few pens on the side, but it's

1914
02:29:54,720 --> 02:30:00,160
and none of that aligns with the CPI,
>> right?

1915
02:30:01,200 --> 02:30:12,399
I expected to be back. Um, article 22.
>> Well, we're looking I'm sorry. We're

1916
02:30:08,160 --> 02:30:15,399
looking at replacing the um the tobacco,
right?

1917
02:30:17,359 --> 02:30:21,560
Because the um

1918
02:30:25,520 --> 02:30:29,280
» I don't think it's on.
>> Fill me in. I haven't heard anything

1919
02:30:28,560 --> 02:30:33,520
yet?
>> No. Peter had mentioned years ago that

1920
02:30:31,680 --> 02:30:38,000
his long-term goal would be to get a
wheeled excavator and sell the backos

1921
02:30:36,000 --> 02:30:43,359
because the backos are
>> harder to Yeah. They're no good for

1922
02:30:40,960 --> 02:30:46,560
ditching. And I mean, they have some
purpose, but

1923
02:30:44,880 --> 02:30:51,600
» the wheeled excavator would be a much
better

1924
02:30:47,439 --> 02:30:54,160
» Yeah, the lease. The lease is coming due
>> or

1925
02:30:53,120 --> 02:30:57,439
on the on the
>> Yeah, that's the loader. That's the only

1926
02:30:56,240 --> 02:31:01,120
equipment we've leased.
>> Okay.

1927
02:30:58,800 --> 02:31:05,359
» That is coming to be curious to see how
it closes out because you are told what

1928
02:31:03,760 --> 02:31:09,840
you're told and then you see what you
see. And I hope it'll be what we were

1929
02:31:08,000 --> 02:31:15,439
told.
>> We'll see. [laughter]

1930
02:31:12,800 --> 02:31:18,720
» The last one I I just want to talk about
uh article 22. [clears throat]

1931
02:31:17,749 --> 02:31:22,040
[snorts]
The town

1932
02:31:23,200 --> 02:31:35,520
used to have it as a selectman's
um submitted article similar to

1933
02:31:31,680 --> 02:31:39,760
all the way up to article 16.
It was the selectman who would bring

1934
02:31:37,200 --> 02:31:43,760
this to the voters. Do you want to make
donations to people right

1935
02:31:41,680 --> 02:31:50,720
» to organizations?
Um few years back I brought up the point

1936
02:31:46,800 --> 02:31:55,200
that a lot of these things it just they
were politically there is a political

1937
02:31:52,640 --> 02:31:58,800
firestorm. Do you recall that in 2021?
>> I've been through it but

1938
02:31:57,359 --> 02:32:01,040
» I'm saying different communities
>> this ideological thing of

1939
02:32:00,319 --> 02:32:05,600
» oh sure
>> all this

1940
02:32:02,560 --> 02:32:10,000
» all these businesses going political and
pushing different agendas.

1941
02:32:08,160 --> 02:32:14,800
um it still goes on to a little bit
lesser degree right now, but it does

1942
02:32:12,240 --> 02:32:19,680
still go on. And so I
I looked at that article and I said,

1943
02:32:16,960 --> 02:32:26,560
"Three of these things are pushing
agendas that are opposite of what I

1944
02:32:22,479 --> 02:32:34,720
believe in. And if this thing passes,
I my town is forcing me

1945
02:32:31,280 --> 02:32:40,000
to fund
something that I'm

1946
02:32:37,359 --> 02:32:45,120
morally opposed to.
Now, to me, that was like, okay, wait a

1947
02:32:42,720 --> 02:32:52,800
minute. So, I back up and I look, okay,
so maybe I like this one here,

1948
02:32:49,200 --> 02:32:59,680
but my neighbor hates him or my neighbor
has a moral objection to it.

1949
02:32:56,000 --> 02:33:06,160
And I thought, what is the town doing
raising taking money from the taxpayers?

1950
02:33:03,760 --> 02:33:10,240
This would be the selectman at that
time. the selectman would say, "Yeah,

1951
02:33:08,479 --> 02:33:13,680
we're going to take money from you guys
and we're going to give it to this

1952
02:33:11,439 --> 02:33:18,319
person and that one and that one and
this one, but we're not going to give to

1953
02:33:15,280 --> 02:33:23,920
that one." I said, "It just seems like
that's not a

1954
02:33:20,880 --> 02:33:28,240
» but that was the people's choice,
>> but it's not a proper use of public

1955
02:33:26,880 --> 02:33:34,000
funds in
>> it's not a public fund in my opinion. It

1956
02:33:30,880 --> 02:33:38,640
is a a person's choice.
>> Only the people who voted yes

1957
02:33:36,720 --> 02:33:42,720
That was their choice. The people who
voted no

1958
02:33:40,399 --> 02:33:46,720
» are being conscripted by the government
to support a charity.

1959
02:33:45,520 --> 02:33:49,840
» How do you know that they're
conscripted?

1960
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:55,120
» Because if I don't pay my property
taxes,

1961
02:33:51,840 --> 02:33:59,760
this board will send the sheriffs over
there to boot me out and they'll take my

1962
02:33:57,600 --> 02:34:05,280
land away.
And this is raised by

1963
02:34:02,479 --> 02:34:13,840
property taxes.
So here the list is um that I was

1964
02:34:10,479 --> 02:34:22,960
constrained last year. I was forced to
support one, two, three, four, five, 6,

1965
02:34:17,200 --> 02:34:27,040
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 charities who are
nonprofits.

1966
02:34:24,960 --> 02:34:33,520
Um,
>> what was the point? What's the point of

1967
02:34:30,000 --> 02:34:41,200
that? It seems to be a New Hampshire
somewhat some towns do it, some don't.

1968
02:34:36,720 --> 02:34:47,520
Like it all I can think of is this is a
way maybe somebody said I am voting no

1969
02:34:45,520 --> 02:34:51,040
on everything, but this is a way they
can say but I'm going to give to

1970
02:34:49,200 --> 02:34:56,000
charity. Well, you're not giving to
charity. You're forcing me to give to

1971
02:34:53,680 --> 02:34:59,840
charity if I want to give to charity.
And you look at some of these numbers

1972
02:34:57,520 --> 02:35:04,800
» an individual. You look at some of these
numbers. They're small numbers. And when

1973
02:35:01,920 --> 02:35:12,479
I when I first brought this up at a
deliberative session, it was never met

1974
02:35:07,920 --> 02:35:18,720
with warmness. People I feel like it's
something that makes people feel good.

1975
02:35:15,280 --> 02:35:22,240
At least, hey, all the, you know, the
complaints they'll have about what the

1976
02:35:20,160 --> 02:35:26,720
town does with the money, but at least I
know this is going to a good cause.

1977
02:35:24,560 --> 02:35:32,160
Well, give it yourself.
120 bucks the town's going to get

1978
02:35:29,280 --> 02:35:35,520
» to this one organization here.
>> Well, a lot a lot of times because I'

1979
02:35:34,000 --> 02:35:39,280
I've been through this for decades
obviously in different settings.

1980
02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:44,640
Sometimes these are petition warrant
articles individually, [snorts]

1981
02:35:41,439 --> 02:35:48,720
» but even still the 15 or 20 people that
send a petition warrant article get to

1982
02:35:46,560 --> 02:35:52,160
submit it in front of the all the voters
and some will vote it up and some will

1983
02:35:50,080 --> 02:35:56,240
vote it down. A lot of times these
numbers are driven by like home

1984
02:35:54,479 --> 02:36:02,160
healthcare.
They come into town and they don't

1985
02:35:59,359 --> 02:36:10,479
decline to provide care for any new
resident uh for want of pay for for want

1986
02:36:07,120 --> 02:36:14,160
of reimbursement and typically they'll
come to the budget committee or the

1987
02:36:12,160 --> 02:36:20,960
fiscal committee or you guys and say you
know we took care of 230 people in town

1988
02:36:17,280 --> 02:36:23,680
» and this is this is how much it costs us
uh because there's not adequate

1989
02:36:22,800 --> 02:36:28,160
reimbursement. [snorts]
So they ask for donations to offset the

1990
02:36:26,319 --> 02:36:31,520
cost of taking care of US citizens.
Yeah.

1991
02:36:28,479 --> 02:36:36,240
» So every agency um they [clears throat]
don't like to make up these numbers

1992
02:36:33,439 --> 02:36:43,040
typically at least in my experience
>> you say where did that number come from?

1993
02:36:37,760 --> 02:36:47,520
How many how many new residents uh
had to get services from Center for

1994
02:36:45,520 --> 02:36:53,120
Violence Prevention or how many people
in town needed meals on wheels and um

1995
02:36:51,200 --> 02:36:58,640
and or 100 night shelter. How many
homeless people came from New Ipsswitch

1996
02:36:55,280 --> 02:37:06,800
and on and on and on. And so you get to
make a decision about

1997
02:37:02,160 --> 02:37:10,240
uh how you take care of your citizens
>> and and you could do your you could just

1998
02:37:08,800 --> 02:37:17,760
take that money and put in the welfare
budget and you could and you could pay

1999
02:37:13,280 --> 02:37:22,800
home healthcare directly. But but that's
the concept and and either the board

2000
02:37:20,080 --> 02:37:27,439
recommends the outside agencies
whose money is used to take care of your

2001
02:37:25,760 --> 02:37:32,080
citizens
or they do a petition war article where

2002
02:37:29,439 --> 02:37:36,319
15 of your people's citizens say, "Hey,
I want to fund home healthcare." Either

2003
02:37:34,160 --> 02:37:38,720
way, it's going to end up on the ballot.
Um

2004
02:37:37,920 --> 02:37:43,040
so
>> possibly. So we didn't have it on the

2005
02:37:40,560 --> 02:37:47,600
ballot for two years.
>> Okay. You didn't find any outside

2006
02:37:44,800 --> 02:37:53,439
agencies? But the people,
>> a number of people came up last year and

2007
02:37:50,880 --> 02:37:55,200
said that they wanted it back on there.
>> Yeah.

2008
02:37:54,080 --> 02:37:58,880
» Oh, yeah. that's happened
>> because we have citizens in town who are

2009
02:37:57,200 --> 02:38:01,680
poor and they need services
>> and they get it

2010
02:37:59,600 --> 02:38:05,040
» and they're going to get it because
statutoily, you know, you can do it

2011
02:38:03,280 --> 02:38:10,880
through your welfare budget.
>> No, but can do it through these agencies

2012
02:38:06,640 --> 02:38:16,560
and maybe so if you take if you take
>> um 100 night shelter on this one, $500.

2013
02:38:15,280 --> 02:38:21,920
» Okay,
>> that wouldn't even be one month's rent.

2014
02:38:19,680 --> 02:38:25,840
» No, but you could probably stay at the
shelter for 60 days.

2015
02:38:24,479 --> 02:38:30,319
for that amount of money
>> would. So are these are you telling me

2016
02:38:28,319 --> 02:38:35,520
that these charities will no longer
provide services for the town people in

2017
02:38:33,359 --> 02:38:39,359
this town if the town
>> if the town doesn't give $120 a year?

2018
02:38:38,399 --> 02:38:42,800
» No, they will.
>> And this is my point. And if and if

2019
02:38:41,280 --> 02:38:47,040
somebody
who's going to pay who's going to pay

2020
02:38:44,479 --> 02:38:50,479
for the bricks these
these here are nonprofits.

2021
02:38:49,280 --> 02:38:53,600
» Well, that doesn't mean they don't have
expenses and they don't need revenue.

2022
02:38:51,760 --> 02:38:59,359
» Understood. Who do you think pays for
nonprofit organizations?

2023
02:38:56,399 --> 02:39:04,080
I hope it's not governments because now
you're just a branch of you're like a

2024
02:39:01,680 --> 02:39:08,560
you're not an NGO anymore. You're just a
branch of the government.

2025
02:39:06,240 --> 02:39:11,040
» There may not be the people of this, but
there are other towns that are willing

2026
02:39:10,319 --> 02:39:14,399
to
>> Oh, absolutely.

2027
02:39:12,630 --> 02:39:20,479
[cough and clears throat] No such tax
voted for this $10,000

2028
02:39:18,080 --> 02:39:27,359
a little bit more than my house. You
could say the voters said all of my

2029
02:39:24,399 --> 02:39:34,560
taxes will go towards
donating to these charities. Now, if I

2030
02:39:30,160 --> 02:39:38,880
like a charity, I don't ask you
to pay for that. [clears throat]

2031
02:39:36,319 --> 02:39:43,840
» And most of these charities, they run
off of people's generosity.

2032
02:39:42,640 --> 02:39:46,319
» He didn't. And so,
>> which is why they're asking for the

2033
02:39:45,280 --> 02:39:52,160
money.
>> But, but what's happening here? Well,

2034
02:39:49,040 --> 02:39:56,080
wait a minute. You did not have to to
accept any one of those.

2035
02:39:54,160 --> 02:40:00,560
» What do you mean?
>> Just because they're on there, you could

2036
02:39:58,479 --> 02:40:02,479
have just said, "I'm not I don't want to
pay."

2037
02:40:01,439 --> 02:40:04,960
» How?
>> Well,

2038
02:40:03,200 --> 02:40:08,720
» I have no choice.
>> My neighbors

2039
02:40:06,399 --> 02:40:13,439
» once it's in the budget.
>> Once it's there, it's there. And and

2040
02:40:10,880 --> 02:40:17,200
what happened last year was my neighbors
told me,

2041
02:40:15,359 --> 02:40:21,920
"Regardless of what you think about
these charities, you are paying it.

2042
02:40:20,240 --> 02:40:24,479
You're paying it this year."
>> That's true.

2043
02:40:22,560 --> 02:40:28,000
» No matter what you think one of these
charities,

2044
02:40:24,880 --> 02:40:31,280
» this comes back to your quasi Christian
roots about who's going to care for the

2045
02:40:29,520 --> 02:40:35,120
poor.
>> There's a church in here.

2046
02:40:33,040 --> 02:40:40,720
» Yeah. St. Paul, that's one of them.
>> They get they get more than everybody.

2047
02:40:38,240 --> 02:40:43,680
Maybe they do more than anybody.
>> I don't know. I mean, but you know,

2048
02:40:42,240 --> 02:40:48,880
honestly, that's part of the dialogue
that you have with them. They come and

2049
02:40:45,520 --> 02:40:53,280
they say, I want X. Well,
>> we just have two things. A, the money

2050
02:40:51,200 --> 02:40:57,439
can only be spent on on the Wford
citizens. And B, I want to see the

2051
02:40:54,960 --> 02:41:01,760
numbers. How many people did showed up?
What what services did you provide? How

2052
02:40:59,120 --> 02:41:07,680
long did they stay? Whatever it is. And
then you get to validate. Well, if I had

2053
02:41:05,439 --> 02:41:14,800
to have my welfare director pay the oil
bill or something else, then I'm still

2054
02:41:11,120 --> 02:41:17,760
paying it. But so those are all kind of
community care decisions.

2055
02:41:16,640 --> 02:41:20,880
» Yeah. because you're always going to
have the poor and somebody's going to

2056
02:41:19,520 --> 02:41:24,399
have to be taking care of them and
somebody's going to have to be paying

2057
02:41:22,160 --> 02:41:32,080
for these agencies to operate
>> and and it has generally

2058
02:41:28,000 --> 02:41:38,319
they don't survive off of NOIPS which is
$120 annual donation they survive. So,

2059
02:41:36,076 --> 02:41:43,920
[clears throat] if I like a charity, I
may give I don't know

2060
02:41:41,120 --> 02:41:47,600
maybe 600,000
dollars a year

2061
02:41:45,600 --> 02:41:51,680
» because I want them to continue what
they're doing. And I said that at the

2062
02:41:49,200 --> 02:41:56,880
deliberative. I take it uh
courtappointed special advocates. That

2063
02:41:53,920 --> 02:42:00,080
one brought some fire. Um my wife and I
went through that and we understand what

2064
02:41:58,800 --> 02:42:08,479
they do.
>> Okay. My wife is, she took on several

2065
02:42:04,640 --> 02:42:10,240
cases for Cassa. We give them $500 a
year.

2066
02:42:09,120 --> 02:42:14,800
» Okay.
>> And I said, "Why?

2067
02:42:13,359 --> 02:42:17,760
» We the
>> town in this one in this particular

2068
02:42:16,960 --> 02:42:22,479
one."
>> And I said, "You know, we're and someone

2069
02:42:20,160 --> 02:42:27,760
said, you know, you're being a Scrooge.
You're just so concerned about No, it's

2070
02:42:25,040 --> 02:42:33,680
not about money
being involved. But I understand there's

2071
02:42:29,920 --> 02:42:39,040
people who don't appreciate something
that happened

2072
02:42:36,399 --> 02:42:43,520
with Cassa. That was something I looked
up when I was in there are people who

2073
02:42:42,232 --> 02:42:45,920
[clears throat] are very unhappy.
>> Not not every story anywhere turns out

2074
02:42:45,520 --> 02:42:49,680
well.
>> Exactly. Exactly point. I'm not saying

2075
02:42:48,160 --> 02:42:53,760
it's justified.
>> I'm not saying it's a justified or a

2076
02:42:51,520 --> 02:42:58,479
reasonable objection. It just is. It's
reality with people.

2077
02:42:55,280 --> 02:43:02,560
» Um and I told the the woman who was
really angry at me for bringing it up.

2078
02:43:01,040 --> 02:43:08,319
If you pass the hat around with the
speech you just made, you would easily

2079
02:43:05,359 --> 02:43:15,840
get more than $500.
So why are we forcing everybody?

2080
02:43:12,240 --> 02:43:20,880
It's just not right. And I I I
looked through

2081
02:43:17,600 --> 02:43:26,800
historically and I found one
prominent politician who said who had a

2082
02:43:23,920 --> 02:43:32,720
speech on it and said absolutely
unethical for the government

2083
02:43:30,160 --> 02:43:40,880
to use public money
um in support of

2084
02:43:35,520 --> 02:43:47,040
a charity. That was Davy Crockett.
So that was the only one I saw. There

2085
02:43:43,359 --> 02:43:53,040
was if you if you look back into the um
founding fathers, you'll see

2086
02:43:49,920 --> 02:43:56,640
» none of them were
supportive of that idea.

2087
02:43:54,319 --> 02:44:00,640
» Yeah, there was something
>> but but you know, every single dollar in

2088
02:43:58,800 --> 02:44:03,600
this budget
>> goes to take care of the citizens of the

2089
02:44:03,040 --> 02:44:07,920
town.
>> Yep. one way or another, whether they're

2090
02:44:05,920 --> 02:44:12,880
poor, whether they're sick, whether
they're getting beaten up, whether they

2091
02:44:10,960 --> 02:44:16,560
have an accident, whether they have a
cardiac arrest, whether they need to get

2092
02:44:15,279 --> 02:44:24,160
out of their home in the middle of a
snowstorm. I mean, everything goes to

2093
02:44:19,840 --> 02:44:28,319
care for New Hood citizens. What makes
these any different? What makes them

2094
02:44:26,399 --> 02:44:34,960
different is they're organizations that
are outside of our

2095
02:44:32,720 --> 02:44:38,720
» taking care of the citizens.
>> Suppose suppose you didn't want to plow

2096
02:44:36,880 --> 02:44:42,399
the roads and and and people couldn't
get out of their home. Why why is it

2097
02:44:40,160 --> 02:44:47,439
your responsibility to plow their road?
>> This is that's a part of the operation

2098
02:44:44,240 --> 02:44:52,960
of the town. This here is a donation to
a charity of your choice. Now, I said,

2099
02:44:50,240 --> 02:44:57,359
"Hey, how about if I convince the
selectman, and I, this was in just a

2100
02:44:55,680 --> 02:45:03,840
conversation with someone, and I named
off some really overtly political, very

2101
02:45:02,000 --> 02:45:10,240
clearly
on this side of the whatever you want to

2102
02:45:06,880 --> 02:45:16,600
call it, um, ideological
war that our culture is in. How about we

2103
02:45:12,720 --> 02:45:16,600
just give a list of them,

2104
02:45:17,760 --> 02:45:23,120
» right?"
>> Yeah.

2105
02:45:19,840 --> 02:45:26,399
No, we don't want I I I'll limit it to
the ones that have actually done work in

2106
02:45:24,960 --> 02:45:28,240
our town.
>> No,

2107
02:45:26,800 --> 02:45:30,960
» all of these have
>> Right. I'm saying my list I'll limit it

2108
02:45:30,080 --> 02:45:35,760
to that.
>> And the answer is still no.

2109
02:45:34,000 --> 02:45:40,640
These have I don't know. I haven't
looked at them recently, but when I

2110
02:45:38,560 --> 02:45:45,200
first brought it up, that's what they
were. Not all of them. There was three

2111
02:45:43,040 --> 02:45:49,040
of them. and I brought it out at the
deliberative session and the moderator

2112
02:45:47,359 --> 02:45:52,240
put me right on the spot and he said
would you like to make an amendment

2113
02:45:51,359 --> 02:45:53,760
» and you said
>> and I said yes

2114
02:45:53,439 --> 02:45:57,359
» okay
>> I would like to strike these three

2115
02:45:56,800 --> 02:46:04,319
» okay
>> and that's when that's when I felt uh

2116
02:46:01,439 --> 02:46:06,800
» the dem the the the thrust of democracy
over

2117
02:46:04,880 --> 02:46:10,399
» yes
so we had a very

2118
02:46:08,720 --> 02:46:15,920
» I think I think it was a very civil
discussion but it was basically me with

2119
02:46:14,560 --> 02:46:19,600
» the audience [clears throat]
resoundingly rejected.

2120
02:46:17,920 --> 02:46:22,000
» No, not resoundingly.
>> Okay.

2121
02:46:20,080 --> 02:46:24,880
» Yeah. And it he actually called for a
standing vote. The moderator did.

2122
02:46:24,240 --> 02:46:30,080
» Okay.
>> Yeah. But they also stood with me for

2123
02:46:27,359 --> 02:46:34,600
putting those back on. [clears throat]
>> Right. And my whole point is

2124
02:46:34,640 --> 02:46:43,359
get to the bottom of it. It's at the
barrel of a gun. You will donate to this

2125
02:46:39,600 --> 02:46:47,840
charity. Now, if that charity becomes a
part of our welfare office, then

2126
02:46:46,080 --> 02:46:48,720
whatever. I mean, that's we're stuck
with.

2127
02:46:48,399 --> 02:46:54,000
» Okay.
>> I I sign off on checks that the welfare

2128
02:46:52,000 --> 02:46:58,319
department writes. And I understand that
I have no choice.

2129
02:46:56,160 --> 02:47:03,279
And who that check goes to has been
arranged by the welfare officer in

2130
02:47:00,880 --> 02:47:09,200
helping out whatever individual needed
it. But the principle of this is what

2131
02:47:07,120 --> 02:47:12,960
gets me.
And yeah,

2132
02:47:10,800 --> 02:47:16,240
» at the county, we've we've been funding
some of these people literally for 40

2133
02:47:14,960 --> 02:47:22,720
years.
>> Um, but we've also have

2134
02:47:20,080 --> 02:47:24,479
said no more outside agencies. We're
funding enough. So,

2135
02:47:24,240 --> 02:47:29,040
» yeah,
>> we're not adding new people to the list,

2136
02:47:26,240 --> 02:47:32,960
just just some of the legacy ones.
>> And then last year, guess what? They

2137
02:47:31,439 --> 02:47:36,000
added a new one.
>> The [clears throat] government would

2138
02:47:33,920 --> 02:47:41,279
never do that.
>> Really? Not everybody. government would

2139
02:47:38,560 --> 02:47:43,920
never say one thing and do another.
>> There's other times where I've looked at

2140
02:47:42,640 --> 02:47:47,120
the balance sheet of some of these
nonprofits. I said, you know, they're

2141
02:47:45,120 --> 02:47:50,560
sitting on $2.5 million. They don't need
our money,

2142
02:47:48,720 --> 02:47:54,080
» but they still get it.
>> But they're helping

2143
02:47:51,439 --> 02:47:58,399
» because it's helping state.
>> Yeah, I know. This is why I say let's

2144
02:47:56,319 --> 02:48:04,720
and we did. We didn't fund these things
for a couple years. and our town

2145
02:48:01,520 --> 02:48:08,000
administrator was not pleased with the
board of selecting because she fielded

2146
02:48:07,040 --> 02:48:11,600
the calls.
>> Oh,

2147
02:48:09,279 --> 02:48:14,399
» what kind of a Scrooge town you
>> at the end of the day, the town

2148
02:48:12,800 --> 02:48:18,560
administrator's job is to carry out the
majority vote to the board.

2149
02:48:15,840 --> 02:48:22,479
» Yeah. And I like what you said there at
the deliberative session and that has

2150
02:48:20,160 --> 02:48:30,319
been a really
good educational thing for me is

2151
02:48:26,880 --> 02:48:39,279
it them deliberative sessions and March
vote really strongly illustrate why

2152
02:48:35,840 --> 02:48:44,560
these people here were deathly afraid of
a true democracy.

2153
02:48:41,840 --> 02:48:50,080
Because it's mob rule. You come to the
deliberative session, you get enough of

2154
02:48:46,319 --> 02:48:51,760
your friends, you own the town.
It's crazy

2155
02:48:50,880 --> 02:48:56,560
» for sure.
>> Yeah, it is wild.

2156
02:48:53,520 --> 02:49:00,000
» That's why
they didn't really form a democracy.

2157
02:48:58,800 --> 02:49:04,800
» They formed a republic.
>> Yep. Exactly. And it was because of

2158
02:49:02,399 --> 02:49:07,760
that. And we get to witness it firsthand
here.

2159
02:49:06,160 --> 02:49:14,000
» Um,
you know, with like the warrant,

2160
02:49:11,600 --> 02:49:20,160
» it was
And and the the reason they were not

2161
02:49:16,800 --> 02:49:27,439
they were afraid of a true democracy
and mob rule is because

2162
02:49:23,600 --> 02:49:31,920
we see emotions
can be stirred up and they they

2163
02:49:30,000 --> 02:49:36,399
experience it there.
>> Yeah. I mean all the tar and feathering

2164
02:49:34,479 --> 02:49:40,560
and stuff a lot of these the founding
fathers they weren't in favor of it but

2165
02:49:38,319 --> 02:49:46,640
that's what happens. people's emotions
get stoked up

2166
02:49:42,479 --> 02:49:50,720
» and watch out. Yeah. So, that's been a
really

2167
02:49:48,240 --> 02:49:53,279
» Well, we don't have as many refs beating
each other over the head with canes like

2168
02:49:52,319 --> 02:49:56,479
we did 200 years ago
>> or duels.

2169
02:49:54,160 --> 02:49:59,359
» DS. Yeah. We're a little more
>> Oh, feed them to the line. I

2170
02:49:57,840 --> 02:50:02,640
» I would not say that we're more
civilized.

2171
02:50:00,800 --> 02:50:06,327
» I would say some of the customs may have
changed.

2172
02:50:03,359 --> 02:50:07,600
» That way you know where it's going.
[clears throat]

2173
02:50:06,720 --> 02:50:13,920
» You do. [laughter]
They do that in Europe. I see them

2174
02:50:09,600 --> 02:50:15,760
brawling over there. Have you seen them?
>> British house.

2175
02:50:14,960 --> 02:50:20,000
» Yeah, they'll start.
>> There's a boot to watch.

2176
02:50:17,760 --> 02:50:24,080
» I don't know. They're a little little up
to on civil, but I will not take up any

2177
02:50:22,080 --> 02:50:28,960
more time. That was my last thought on
the warrant and I'll ask one last call.

2178
02:50:26,560 --> 02:50:30,399
» I had this is about the fourth time, if
not more.

2179
02:50:30,080 --> 02:50:35,760
» What
>> that I've listened to to this whole

2180
02:50:32,960 --> 02:50:40,000
» Yeah. Yeah. And you still disagree. You
you enjoy the fact that I have a gun

2181
02:50:38,000 --> 02:50:42,080
pointed to my head telling me to donate
to these charities.

2182
02:50:41,200 --> 02:50:47,600
» Yeah, but they have
>> you say

2183
02:50:44,240 --> 02:50:53,120
for me for 35 years. It's just
>> Ron said, "Please, can you wind it up

2184
02:50:50,319 --> 02:50:56,760
already?" You're talking in circles. If
anyone has anything