Thank you very much. Welcome to the council meeting Monday, July 27th, 2026.
Could everybody please rise for the singing of O Canada and could you please
remain standing for a moment of silent contemplation? Thank you.
Thank you. Please be seated.
At the town of Nuda comes, we acknowledge that we're on the treaty
lands and traditional territory of the Nishanabi peoples, specifically the
Ojiu, Chipawa, Odawa, and Pawatami peoples, collectively known as the Three
Fires Confederacy. This land is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit,
and Miti peoples. New Dumps is covered by the Lake Simco
Navasaga Treaty number 18 signed on October 17th, 1818 with the Chipoa
Nation. We acknowledge that we're all treaty people and accept our
responsibility to honor all our relations and move forward in the spirit
of reconciliation and respect. Thank you. So, I'm going to go to awards and
recognitions, please. Councelor Bis. >> Uh, thank you, worship. Um, once again,
I'd like to congratulate uh our senior of the year, Donna Jeb. She's in the
audience again tonight uh for being awarded the Adelaide Hunter Hoodless
Canadian Woman of the Year for her outstanding leadership, inspiration to
others, and support to the community both locally, nationally, and
internationally. Congratulations, Donna. Well done again.
No, thank you very much. And I just like to acknowledge um everybody knows, but
Donna was a counselor and the former deputy mayor of the town of New
Thompson, too. So, thank you for all those years of dedication. Donna, and it
was actually kind of nice, Donna, Rick Mill, myself, and Mark Bis from the
former council actually got to see each other tonight. Did you want to say why?
» Uh, thank you, worship. Um, so for the people at home, um, before council met,
uh, met this evening, um, we had the honor of doing a dedication for the JJ
Paul Whiteside Executive Boardroom. We invited, uh, Mr. Paul Whiteside's family
to come, friends, neighbors, former counselors, the mayors, etc. and and we
celebrated uh a life well-lived, a man who served our community uh faithfully
for many many years and a person and a family that um that we can never forget
and it's his name has been immortalized on his executive boardroom. So, thank
you worship for helping us to to put that together.
» Oh, thank you councelor Bis. Councelor Masters, please.
» Thank you worship. We have a couple announcements. Um the first announcement
is I'd just like to say I've just come back from New Brunswick where um I was
with my um my grandson who's playing in the Canadian National Ball Hockey
Championships and uh with TNT which is one of the Canada's number one of North
America's largest groups in ball hockey and uh I don't have all the final
numbers with me but um our teams did exceedingly well I I think winning gold,
silver, bronze and uh at all levels and um just very proud of uh what TNT um put
forward uh in these championships. Um I think there's a photo up there
somewhere.
Managed to take a photo there.
Let me
while I find that I'll go into the next one. Um um blood donors. Um just a note,
I'm sure you've seen it on the TV and um and other media that we're really in
need of blood >> [clears throat]
» um this time of year. Um especially now um Blood Canada is looking u for uh for
extra help in um and bringing their supplies back up to where they should
be. And um so with that in mind, we have two clinics coming up. One is at the AMA
on uh Thursday, July the 30th, and the other one is a Tottenham Community
Fitness Center on Saturday, September the 19th. Um, please go uh and check uh
for blood.ca because the some of the times are changing now. They're trying
to get more people in throughout the day. So, you know, it may be instead of
1 to uh you know, 9 to1, it might be uh 10 to 2 or something like this. So,
please check for your local um for the local times for your own for your own
clinics. Um, and that photo was up there was a quick photo I took of some of the
sake. >> Thank you very much.
» And the boys celebrating. >> Thank you very much, councelor Masters.
Councelor Rapin, please
» have a look at the photo. Everybody [snorts]
» All right. Uh, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. over uh the last four years I've
had the the privilege to participate in a lot of things and um I've been very
envious of um Tottenham and uh this year beaten in terms of their cash draws that
they've been running uh the Tottenham one I I was there and I was volunteering
at it and people were coming in and saying hi to their neighbors from 20
years ago. They haven't lived in the community for 20 years, but they could
go to the cash drawer, the car drawer, whatever it was, and they'd run into
each other. And and I I I envied that. And I was wondering
how can we do that in Alist? And I and I know for a fact that we used to we used
to have a car draw and we also had Relay for Life, where we would see our old
neighbors and and our community together and we'd have an opportunity. Um, but
with that in mind, I've created the tragically hip day, which is August
22nd. And forgive me for telling you about it in July, but we don't have
council until after the tragically hip day. So, I thought I'd tell you now. Um,
Tragically Hips uh con last concert they ever performed in Kingston was 10 years
ago, August 22nd. And uh CBC will be releasing the the concert uh that night
at 7:00. We will be having a big screen in the band shell and we'll be playing
that concert for anyone who wants to come for free to um to watch it. And
leading into that, we've got six or seven bands that will also be playing
their own songs as well as hip songs. And I'm sure for those of you that are
going, "Big deal, I don't like the hip." Well, we've got Cora Dairy. So, uh, that
that might that might get you there. Uh, they'll they'll be serving out the
tragically chipped ice cream flavor, which is really hard to get. Uh, so
anyway, hope to see you all there. It should be a lot of fun. Uh, try and walk
or bike to it. Please don't don't drive. Could be kind of busy. Thank you.
» No, thank you, Councelor Rapin. And you're right. Ice cream brings everybody
to events. Yeah. No, it certainly does. Any more from members of council? Hey, I
just want to take this opportunity to give a happy 90th birthday shout out to
former two-time mayor in two different municipalities,
longtime counselor here, very involved in the community, approximately 30 years
of a municipal service that she has dedicated, Francis Sainsbury. And I
always like to call her Francis because she gives me that look. So anyhow, if
you're watching, Francis, on behalf of the entire council, happy 90th birthday.
Thank you. >> Okay, Madam Clerk, I don't see anything
else on my screen, so I'm going to go to the clerk to identify any items to add
or delete to the agenda, please. Madam clerk,
» thank you. Your worship, there are no items to add or delete this evening.
» Thank you. So, we have a motion to be resolved to the agenda for the council
meeting held on July 27th, 2026. be confirmed as circulated. Councelor Best,
thank you. Councelor Masters, thank you. All those in favor? That's carried.
Thank you. Disclosure of peunary interest. Are there any members of
council have a disclosure of pecunary interest?
Councelor Gabbert, please. >> Thank you, your worship. Uh R-3, my
spouse is an employee at Honda of Canada.
» Thank you, Councelor Gabbert.
Okay, I'm not seeing any other. So, we need a motion now. Adoption of council
minutes be resolved that the minutes of the council meeting dated July 13th,
2026 be adopted as circulated. Deputy mayor, would you move that please? Thank
you. Uh, councelor Harrison McIntyre, you're here virtually. Would you second
that? Thank you. All those in favor? And that's carried.
Thank you. So, I can go to the clerk now identify
items for separate discussion and the reason thereof, please, madam clerk.
» Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening we just have item R3 as there is a
disclosure of pecunary interest. Uh the follow-up report Canada North vehicles
initiative costs resources allocated and measurable outcomes. Thank you.
» Thank you. I'm going to go to council now to identify items for separate
discussion. Councelor Masters please
R-3 and CW1-2. You worship.
I'm going to come back to this in a moment to see if there's any other
members of council. Okay, I'm not seeing any in regards to CW-2.
» I'll hand it over to you, clerk. >> Thank you, your worship. Um, as it would
follow the same procedure as it did at committee, you would need a twothirds
vote to even reconsider the motion. Then the motion would be on the floor and you
would need a majority vote to pass. >> Okay. So, as per the clerk's
instructions, require a majority of councel to allow this on the floor.
Correct. Twothirds. >> Yeah. First, we need the twothirds vote
to to reconsider the motion. Then you would need to reconsider the motion.
» So, all those in favor of reconsidering the motion, put your hands up, please.
» Okay. Councelor Rapens declared a pecunior interest. All those in favor of
reconsidering the motion, put your hands up.
Okay, that does not pass. Councelor Masters, as per our procedural bylaw, it
will not be pulled on tonight's agenda meeting. Thank you.
So, we have a motion be resolved item CW Sorry, can someone let Councelor Rapid
Oh, there he is. Be resolved at that item CW1 to CW5 and the committee of the
whole meeting report dated July 13, 2026,
including additional information memorandums with the exception of those
items identified for separate discussion be approved and the recommendations
therein be adopted. and further that communication items and any other items
listed on the council meeting agenda dated July 27th 2026
with the exception of those items identified for separate discussion to be
received and or adopted. Uh councelor Rapin, would you move that please? Thank
you. Councelor Gabrick, would you second that? Thank you.
Deputations. Sorry. All those in favor. Thank you. Deputations requiring
statutory or public meetings. I don't have any. Deputations relating to new
matters. There's none on the docket. So, we're going to go to R-3
that was pulled by councelor Gabri for canary interest.
So, I have a motion. It's uh be resolved of report number GI2026-07
regarding the Canada North Vehicles Initiative follow-up costs, resources
allocated, and measurable outcomes be received. Um, councelor Cox, would you
move that? Thank you. Councelor Bis, would you second that? Thank you. All
those in favor? That's carried. Thank you. Thank you, councel.
» Okay, madam clerk, I'm going to move on to the bylaws, please.
» Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Councilor Masters Rdash.
» It's a comment I'd like to pass on to staff regarding Canada North
Association. I think this is a at this economic time for Ontario and Canada. I
think this is a great um effort that's put forward by everybody. I just want to
suggest make a recommendation that Canada North Association
set up communications for information with JAMAMAR the Japanese automobile
association. Jammer's communicators are more broad and include much of Japan's
auto industry from a political general industry overview and group directors
affecting the globe including Canada. So I think there's um more connections that
we can make by using the JAMAMA group which is the group that uh sets the pace
for the auto industry in Japan. Thank you.
» Thank you for those comments. So it was moved by councelor Cox, seconded by
councelor Bis. All those in favor that's carried. Thank you. Going to move on to
the bylaws now. Please madam clerk. So, we have a motion be resolved that the
following bylaws be read a first, second, and third time, and enacted.
Bylaw 2026-067, bylaw 2026-068.
Councelor Masters, would you move that? >> Thank you. Councelor Ha McIntyre, will
you second that? Thank you. All those in favor? That's carried. Thank you,
councel. General information announcements. I don't have any. We have
no public notices. So we have the confirming bylaw be it
resolved that bylaw 2026-069 to confirm the proceeding of council at
its meeting on July 27th 2026 be read at first second and third time enacted
deputy mayor would you move that thank you councelor Rapin will you second that
thank you all those in favor that's carried thank you so we have adjournment
be resolved with the meeting adjourn at 6:16 please councelor Gabri would you
move that thank you councelor Cox thank you all those in favor that's carried
thank you councel Madam Clerk, I'm going to go right into
the committee meeting.
So, we're going to do the confirmation of agenda. We have a recommendation that
the agenda for the committee of the whole meeting held on July 27th, 2026 be
confirmed as circulated. Councelor Bis, thank you. Councelor Masters, you'll
second that. Thank you. All those in favor? That's carried. Thank you. Any
disclosures of pecuniary interest please?
» Council Rapid
on CW42 of the suggestions is property that
backs onto my onto my property. >> Thank you, Councelor Gabri.
» Thank you, your worship. Um I'm I'm declaring on the same uh number as well
for the uh same reason stated before. Thank you.
» Okay. CW42, you're declaring one. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. So, I'm gonna go to the clerk now.
» Oh, you're not. >> Thank you.
» Oh, you're already on. >> Yeah. I don't know how that happened.
Um, I'd like you to declare on CW51, accessible parking and traffic by
updates. I live on the 13th line. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, councelor
Bus.
Okay. So,
just [clears throat] one second here. So, madam clerk, can you lift us off the
items for separate discussion and the reason they're up, please? Because I
have just want to make sure I've captured them all.
» Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening we have item CW42 as there is a
disclosure of pecunary interest proposed acquisition of environmental protection
lands for habitat compensation and CW51 also a disclosure of pecunary interest
on accessible parking and traffic bylaw updates.
» Okay. Thank you madam clerk. So those three items have been pulled for
pecunary interest but will still come up. So I'm going to go to council now to
identify items for separate discussion please. Councelor Rapen
» CW52 please.
Thank you, Councelor Masters. CW53, you worship. Thank you.
» Thank you, Councelor Gabbert, please. >> Thank you. Uh CW11, please.
» Thank you. So, I'm going to go to the members of
the public now. Are there any members of the public? if they would like to speak
to any of the items on the agenda, please.
» Yes, sir. Which item, sir?
» Okay. And your name, please, sir? Uh, you don't have to come right now. I'll I
just make a note of it.
» Thank you. Any other members of the public?
Okay. I'm not seeing any. So, I'm going to the clerk to summarize all items
identified for separate discussion, please.
Thank you, your worship. Item CW11, from the ground, land for non-market housing.
A written motion from councelor Harrison McIntyre. Uh CW42,
proposed acquisition of environmental protection lands for habitat
compensation as there is a disclosure of pecunary interest. CW51, accessible
parking and traffic bylaw updates as there is a disclosure of pecunary
interest. CW52 Church Street North Road and Bridge
improvements update to item C-2 Council May 25th, 2026. Petition regarding
Church Street North bike lanes and sidewalk and CW53
Beaten Community Center redevelopment project refinements and design
direction. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk.
So we have a recommendation that all the items not identified for separate
discussion be received and the recommendations therein be recommended
to council for adoption. Councelor Harrison McIntyre, will you move that
please? Thank you. Deputy mayor, will you second that please? Thank you. All
those in favor? That's carried. Thank you very much.
So the first item was CW1 one from the ground land for non-market
housing. Councelor, it's a written motion, I believe,
from councelor Harrison McIntyre. You pulled that item. Councelor Gabbert,
would you like to speak, please? Thank you.
» Thank you, your worship. I just had a quick question. I know that the
information will come back to council. um including the property's value to our
taxpayers, but I'm just wondering from staff what types of property could fall
under non-market housing and could this include supportive housing or emergency
uh shelters or is the intent strictly affordable housing for the long term?
» I will look to um I guess director Saget, would you answer that or GM
Hoppy, do you want me to How would you What would you prefer?
your worship. Um I staff have I've just received this so I don't think we um we
have all the information before us but uh I don't know if councelor Harrison
McIntyre has anything to add to the conversation at this point.
» Okay. All right. So duly noted that you are requiring more information. So if
that is that okay council camera. Thank you. So we have item CW1-1
from the ground land for non-market housing. Everyone has read the motion.
Do you require it to be read again? I'm not seeing that. So, councelor
Harrison McIntyre, would you move that? Thank you, Councelor Gabrick. Sure.
Thank you. All those in favor? It's carried. Thank you, councel.
We're going to move on to CW41.
And we have two conflicts pulled on CW41.
And uh that was by councelor Rapen and councelor Gabri
or sorry 42. I mean, yeah, 42. And we also Okay, so just let me get
there, please.
» So this is a proposed acquisition of environmental protection lands for
habitat compensation. Councelor Cox.
» Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Three you to staff. Um, I see through the
compensation land we're compensating for 86 hectare build through Honda. Um, I
didn't see a size listed for option one. Option two was around 28 hectares with
20 of that being able to be environmentally protected. Can I get the
sizing for option one, please?
» Thank you. I'll go over to Director Saget, please.
» Thank you, your worship. I'm going to ask uh um
Caitlyn Cosg Gro or um manager of development to assist in that regard.
She was um um instrumental in pulling this report together. So hopefully she's
got that detail for us. >> Thank you. Welcome manager Cosgrove.
» And through you to councelor Cox. Uh the compensation lands that we are looking
for are to account for habitat. So there's a particular habitat size that
we're looking for. It's just under 14 acres of habitat lands for compensation.
» Okay. >> Supplementary if I could through you,
Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you.
» Um I know that the M ZO lands are are being used for this and the um
environmental component that's unable to be built on. Do we know offhand if those
M zo lands will require a compensation component for being built on? And if so,
how does that relate or fit into um these compensation properties being used
for Honda >> manager?
» Through you, Mr. Mayor, to councelor Cox. The compensation, there would be no
monetary compensation of lands. These lands were scheduled to come to the town
through a plan of subdivision process. So, there's no exchange of money other
than the $1 exchange that occurs with, you know, um the exchange of property.
» Okay. Sorry, just supplementary. Maybe I I probably wasn't clear with my
question. So, when the M ZO lands are built on, will there be a compensation
component for Flat to pay for their M ZO property being built on? Did they do an
environmental impact study that may be attributed to breeding bird habitat or
anything? So, is or is that something that they've already established is not
needed because the MTO property? I just want to make sure that uh if there's any
compensation land required for Flat to provide that this they're maybe not
doubling up on the Honda property. >> Manager
» through you mayor to councelor Cox. Uh to the best of my knowledge there has
not been any environmental study completed for the flat uh plan of
subdivision as it was brought forward through a minister's zoning order. So
that was not a requirement of the process as the province stepped in and
approved that plan of subdivision. >> Sorry, just one more supplementary just
so we can make sure that when that M Zo I guess plan of subdivision comes
forward. If there is a compensation component, I'd like to make sure that
we're not going to be doubling up on that environmentally sensitive and
compensation land that there will be a requirement probably for additional
lands to be added for that component.
Sorry, I sorry. Go ahead, man. >> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. You councelor
Cox, your comments are noted. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we have CW-4
Strategic Services. It's proposed acquisition of environmental protection
lands for habitat compensation. Councelor Bis, would you Thank you,
Councelor Masters. Thank you. All those in favor? That's carried. Thank you.
Councelor Gabric and Councelor Rapen, you're back in, please.
The next one is CW51. It's accessible parking and traffic bylaw updates.
Councelor Bis has declared a conflict of interest on that. Thank you, Council
Bess. Any comments or questions? Okay, I'm not seeing any.
So, CW51 accessible parking traffic bylaw updates and there's a
recommendation that report number-2026-15
be received. Um, everyone's has the motion. Is there a requirement to read
it? Okay, I'm not seeing that. All those in favor? Well, going to have a mover in
second or so. Deputy mayor and councelor uh councelor Rappen. All those in favor?
And that's carried. Thank you. Councelor Bis, you're back in, please, sir. Okay,
we're going to move to CW52. We do have uh that was pulled by councelor Rapen,
but we do have a member of the audience, Brent, that would like to speak. Would
you like to come up now, sir?
Welcome.
» Good evening and thank you for listening to uh tonight. I can only speak for
myself and my wife, but I'm sure that I speak for many Church Street North
residents. To say that hearing of the plan to proceed with the original plan
was disappointing would be a gross understatement. A number of Church
Street residents shared their thoughts, concerns, and
reasons as to why the original plan is both poor and not needed. And it is
clear that you, the council and incumbent mayor, did not take us
seriously. To start with, I believe that before any final decisions are made, the
secondary plans placed at the very bottom of your latest
information release, one which included no bike lanes and the other having no
sidewalk and bike lanes, be revisited and implemented. Both these options save
money, acknowledge that there is no need for a sidewalk on the east side or bike
lanes, and demonstrate that the needs of voting residents actually matter.
It is odd to me that during the 20 May 25th meeting, one counselor recommended
that no bike lanes be put in and another counselor brought up great points such
as the subdivision on the north end has been built and as such the population is
what it is and the volume of traffic is what it is. No in-depth traffic surveys
were done warranting the sidewalk or bike lanes. Two elected counselors
expressed clear reasons as to why the original plan should not proceed and yet
here we are. So who then has the voice, the real voice or power? Why don't the
voices of counselors acting on behalf of Worn W citizens not count? Our voices
matter. Our [clears throat] concerns are real. But what we have seen is that they
don't. They don't matter at all. How can they
if input from elected officials don't? Councilors and all elected officials
have the duty and responsibility not just to listen to constituents but to
act on their behalf. Apparently not in this case. Furthermore, during the May
25th meeting, only one counselor seemed to know anything of substance about the
plan. He brought up great points, excellent questions to the engineer,
spoke with insight and demonstrated a thorough understanding of the plan, its
issues and faults therein. All of our counselors remain silent,
seemingly almost afraid to speak. Very few demonstrated any real understanding
of the issue or were simply not willing to share their thoughts or do not care
enough. Not good enough. While reading the latest release of
information about how you would like to proceed, it was hard not to notice how
hard you worked to neutralize all of the elements you did so poorly throughout
this process. You identified most of them, i.e. the doorners, and then had
the gall to suggest that the door knockers were handed out to give
residents more time.
You brought up the cost and savings associated with putting in sidewalks or
not putting in sidewalks and then marginalized them and made it sound as
if these cost-saving measures for completely unneeded infrastructure are
wrong and would negatively impact us. It was quite a read complete with all the
necessary little coverups. Change happens. Yeah. But to disrupt lives,
take away property, and conduct yourselves in ways which place
significant doubts in our democratic system is deeply disturbing and not the
type of change we as voting citizens need at a time when we all need to do
better. You have not. Change happens yet. But the changes to our properties,
loss of parking, and unneeded bike lanes, which I might add the ward one
counselor even acknowledged was unnecessary.
when he finally decided to speak do not need to happen. I believe even your
lawyers said this that the original plan does not need to
go ahead as planned and yet again here we are. The people who vote for you or
even let you put a sign in their front yard have been cast aside and for what?
There must be reasons as transparency throughout this process has not been the
strong suit and we the voting public are not privy to the behind-the-scenes
goings on. It doesn't take much of an imagination
to come up with some disturbing and sad reasons why these decisions have been
made. All of which by the way do not meet the needs of the constituents in
this area or the town. Especially given the fact the fact that the proposed
sidewalks and bike lanes again are not needed.
Town council, by choosing not to put in unnecessary sidewalk and bike lanes, you
a save money, which could be better spent
on other needed projects such as a new beaten arena, or as I just received a
text from uh Nelson Street West, use taxpayer dollars appropriately to
rebuild and fix a bridge in desperate need of repair, upgrade aging water and
sewer infrastructure, and allow voting citizens to keep their
property in significantly uh decrease disruption to our everyday
lives. We may be a small number of people in a growing town, but our needs,
concerns, and beliefs matter. So far, that has not been the case.
Town council, act and make decisions not based on pressures from people who do
not know our town, its needs, concerns, or people. act and make decisions not
based on companies or people who are looking out for themselves and their
financial or political gains. Instead, council act and make decisions on behalf
of the people who voted for you so that you can sit in the chairs you currently
occupy. Anything less is unacceptable. Church Street North does not need a
sidewalk on the east side or bike lanes. do right
by us and make the s necessary adjustments to this plan. Thank you.
Thank you very much. That was the only gentleman I had uh
asking to speak about the church street north. So, councelor Rapid.
» Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Uh, thank you Brent for your presentation.
Getting used to seeing you every couple months. So hopefully it'll be for
something else the next time. Let's see if we can solve this. Um, the way
this is this is a a four-year learning curve for me as well. When I see stuff
and I think, "Oh, that doesn't seem like the right way." I'll I'll ask staff.
They'll explain it. And sometimes I do see it their way, and sometimes I still
don't see it the right way. and I still just see it my way and uh and then
that's when I discuss with others and uh eventually come up with a decision. So
for me just today I biked Church Street North six times, not to bike it to to
show people I'm on it, but to get to the pool, to get to downtown, to get to the
things I I use it quite a bit. Um I also bike a few other spots quite a bit now.
Uh, forgive me for the preamble. One of the
there's three spots I really like biking in our town. Uh, King Street,
uh, King Street North going to Barntormers, not because of Barntormers,
but just going along that stretch. Albert Street and part of the ag
new Tcumpa town line where they've got a one and a half to 2 meter paved shoulder
with a a white line along it and it gives me lots of it's not declared a
bike lane. It's just it just narrows the road to sort of induce traffic calming I
think and it gives me some space to bike. Uh King Street you'll see it
Albert Street's a little wider. It's it's much wider. I'm not 100% sure of
it. You're still allowed to park on those roads, but it gives you a feeling
that you can bike safely and I understand. I' I've been down Church
Street quite a bit and there's some days there's a pool party happening and
there's like five or six cars parked on the road and I understand. I'm assuming
it's a pool party. Never been invited, but uh [laughter]
but um there there's those things. So, I understand those concerns. Um so, I
recognize that. So, the the first thing I'm going to recommend to council is
that um the we don't put in official bike lanes,
but we create these um these paved shoulders with the white lines. There
are some other options. I was showed some other options where there's these
uh white triangles emanating out of the the curb that just sort of makes traffic
go a little bit further away from the curb. It doesn't really mean anything, I
don't think, but it just but it allows some space for bikers. So, it's not an
official bike lane and yes, you can park in it. Um, so I'm going to be recommend
recommending that and I've sent a um an attempt at a mo an amendment or or
whatever for that. The next thing is um I've been uh I've had a few
conversations about the sidewalk on the east side and and I've talked to the
residents as well about it and I've made this suggestion. This shouldn't come in
as any surprise, but I'm going to be recommending that the the sidewalk on
the east side be a curbside so that way there's no boulevard that
leads to the sidewalk so that your driveway will be longer. Now, staff has
told me that this is harder to maintain. And I fully understand that because when
the snow plow when the the sidewalk plow goes by and cleans it, the snow plow
will always go by right after and put snow back on. I understand that. Um,
let's say that happens 10 times a year. I'm okay with that because we will have
a crosswalk at the bottom at Evans to take us across to the west side. So on
the days where that sidewalk doesn't work because of that clearing aspect of
it, they can go across the street and get safely up on the west side as well.
Um, so those are the two I don't know if are they considered amendments or uh so
uh I think this is sort proposed sidewalk extending from or along the
east side of the curb of Church Street and uh traffic calming white lines known
as urban shoulder uh instead of bike lanes. I I I welcome any questions from
staff or from from council but council can also ask staff what they think.
That's fine. >> Thank you.
» You're welcome. So, I'm just going to look to the clerk. Do you have
clarification of it? Are you able to read it out just so white so we know
what you have, please? >> Yep. Thank you, your worship. Um would
be that report 2026-16 be received and further that council
direct staff to proceed with the church street north road and bridge
improvements uh substantially designed including sidewalk. No. Substantially
designed, including um as outlined in report ENG 2026-16 as amended to include
curb sidewalks along the east side of Church Street North between Evans Road
and Hussy Street from the current scope of work. and further that council direct
staff to remove the proposed bike lanes along Church Street North and replace
them with trafficcoming white lines known as urban shoulder um from this
project scope and maintain the on street parking north of Fletcher Crescent
subject to minor updates in keeping with the recommendations of the
transportation needs study. >> Okay, thank you councelor Rapen
captures. Okay, thank you. Any comments or questions in regards to the
amendment? So, the clerk has just read the
amendment. Oh, sorry, Councelor Bess. >> Uh, thank you, worship. Um,
[clears throat] I don't have any questions per se to the the amendment. I
just want to highlight and I think um Mr. Smile actually pointed to it uh in
his comments. I turn people to to page four of 11. And I think this is really
important for us as a council. It's a precedent setting moment because as we
move forward, I think we've struggled townwide with sidewalks and with bike
lanes. We've seen a lot of different all the different communities have have
resisted this. And I think this is an important moment for us to to consider.
And I'll just read a little bit. Uh you know, council, this was during the the
last session we had. We requested clarification regarding the town's legal
obligation to install sidewalks and bicycle lanes as part of the Church
Street North reconstruction project. And I thank staff for going to the town
solicitor who advised that the official plan in the multimmoal transportation
master plan is a council adopted policy document that guides the planning and
design of transportation infrastructure projects. Um while staff are expected to
implement council approved policies, council retains the authority in its
legislative capacity to amend or deviate from those policies through a subsequent
decision, which means that we not we're not beholden to it. The town solicitor
further advised that there is no known provincial requirement mandating the
installation of sidewalks or bicycle lanes. In this context, decisions
regarding the provision of sidewalks, bicycle lanes, and similar
transportation facilities are policy decisions of council and in themselves
do not create liability for the town. Municipal liability generally arises
from the negligent implementation of construction operation or maintenance of
infrastructure rather than from council's policy decisions respecting
the hype, sorry, the type of infrastructure be to be provided. As
such, while the proposed sidewalks and bus lanes are consistent with the
official plan, the town's engineering standards, and the multimodal
transportation master plan, we may choose to amend the proposed design and
associated policy direction through this its decision on this matter. So I mean I
I I understand the compromise that councelor Rapen is making but I think
it's also important for all of us as a learning as as a moment of learning to
understand that it is up to council for us to make these decisions that there
would be there's no one else forcing us to create bike lanes or there is no um
uh there is no polit provincial requirement mandating these for us. So
I'm glad that staff pointed that out so we can if this comes to us in other
iterations we'll be able to understand that going forward.
» Thank you uh councelor Masters please. >> Uh thank you worship and u I agree with
councel bis um that um you know we have policies and guidelines and some of them
are legal. you know, if there's a safety issue involved and somebody gets hurt or
god forbid even lose their life, then we could be at a very lialous position. Um,
I empathize with Mr. um, Snell's um, issue he has there. I had the same issue
when I lived in Beaton in the very early days. They wanted to put a a sidewalk
down the front of my house, which they did. But any what um my what I'd like to
say is that um I did go to staff originally when this first came forward
and the the um the inference I got was that uh this is part of the big plan for
the town. We're a developing town and one of the issues was that the hospital
is going to be double in size very shortly and the amount of traffic that
it's going to bring is going to spill over into all the surrounding streets.
So that's one issue and of course there's other development to happen at
the north end of the beaten I believe and um so this is not for now. I think
this decision was made for things that are going to be happening in the near
future. We're going from 44,000 people to 89,000 people. I I'd wonder if one of
the members of staff could can confirm that that's true what I'm saying that
you know it's it's in preparation for the development that's to for the for
the volume of traffic that is to come. Thank you.
» Thank you.
» Um one second off then answer the question
sir. Who who's
» Oh, Ian, go ahead Ian. Thank you
» to your worship to council masters. Yes, this is part of a big plan within the
attachment. Uh the reports included the multim modal transportation master plan
all the and the future DC projects which shows church street south industrial
parkway uh which goes as far as 14th line which is a another environmental
assessment we're working on that includes multi-use trails to bring the
east part of all to the west part of all uh so it is part of the the the larger
picture. >> Thank you councelor Gabbert please.
» Thank you your worship. Um, yeah. I also have some uh concerns about setting
precedents as we move forward uh installing sidewalks and bike lanes as
we uh redo our streets, streetscapes. And so I'm just wondering if councelor
Rapins amendment will meet the needs of the residents along Church North. So if
we approve the amendments, uh if that's
going to do it justice.
Um thank you very much for the question. So I guess I'll go back to Ian, please.
or general manager horn. Did you want me to Thank you. Go ahead, sir.
» It's your worship to councelor Gabri. Um I'm not entirely sure how to respond to
that. Um while it might meet some needs uh again for the ultimate picture of the
master plan, official plan, complete streets, it may not meet the ultimate
picture for the for those folks.
» Okay. Are you fine with that, Councelor Gabbert? That answer. Thank you very
much. So, councelor Rappen, you have put an amendment on the floor and everyone's
heard it. So, you're going to move that. Councelor Rappen.
» Sir, did you go ahead? >> No, but please come up to the
microphone. >> Thank you.
You're talking about a 600 meter area that narrows into
a newly constructed traffic narrowing zone. This is a bottleneck of all
bottlenecks. So with a sidewalk already in place, the
crosswalk that's been suggested
there, there is no need to take away the east side of the street. I
understand what you're saying. Growth is going to happen. It needs to happen.
But in a 600 meter stretch, which goes into a bottleneck, there's already not
enough parking. And I believe in the uh the the piece that you guys put out, it
said people can park on adjacent streets. Well, where's that?
I mean, it's it's ridiculous. And so growth is going to happen. It has to and
it will. Change will happen. It needs to and it will. But to your point, uh, Miss
Gabbert, will it meet the needs of the people who can't get oxygen in, who
can't get their sons or daughters in to help them with cancer treatments? Will
it meet the needs of people in [sighs]
No, it won't. So, at Christmas time or whatever it might be, when my family
wants to come over or many families want to have their families over, we simply
can't park. It's if it if it was an absolute
necessity, I wouldn't be standing here. I wouldn't
and I wouldn't call into question what you do and how you go about your
business because I'm not you and I'm simply not entitled to to what you know.
But to say that to replace 600 meters and take away property for the sake of a
sidewalk in a bike lane, which I'm glad you rode your bike, but I also saw you
drive by is not enough to warrant the disruption.
Do we need new water lines? Yes. Do we need new sewer lines? Yes. Does that
bridge need to be done? Unequivocally. But I challenge any of you to sit here
and look me in my eyes and tell me that ripping off the east side of the street,
putting a sidewalk in is going to make the difference that you're suggesting it
needs. It's not. The sidewalk on the west side is big
enough. The crosswalk at the top works just
fine.
I'm sorry. I don't buy it. Nor does anybody on Church Street North. And
furthermore, again, the last time we were here, it was said that when
decisions and information came out about this,
that it would be emailed out. Well, it wasn't.
My neighbor Gary was told that someone would come and talk to him. Didn't
happen. So, you'll forgive me
for being Kurt,
but we're not talking about a little thing here.
We're talking about massive unnecessary disruption
that does not meet our needs and that
needs to be discussed. And if there is no legal precedent to say that we need
to rip up that side of the street, take it away, then why are you doing it?
Why? That sidewalk on the west side handles
more than enough traffic.
Parking for hospital employees should be a an issue. Why do why do they have to
park at the donor diamond? Hopefully that gets remedied.
» Okay. But there are bigger issues here. >> Thank you, sir. I'm going to go to the
deputy clerk, please.
Thank you, Council Harrison McIntyre. Thank you, director Clerk.
» Thank you, Worship. Um, I was I I hear what's being said and and
um the deputent made a point which is um I just wanted to put a suggestion
forward. When you go north on Church Street, it does narrow and there is no
sidewalk on the east side of the street. So there's only sidewalk on the west
side. So we would be putting in a sidewalk that connected to Victoria
Street. Yes. But then um up at the top of Church, you I just wonder if it makes
sense to um perhaps not install a sidewalk at all on the east side of the
road, but stick with doing bike lanes because as we know um it's we're doing
this for future planning connecting to other bike lanes that are going to be
done in other parts of the municipality. So, this is just like right now it looks
like it's in the middle of nowhere, but eventually it will be hopefully a
connected trail uh trail connected network. Um, so just I mean I'm not
trying to there's already deputation. There's already amendment on the floor
that we need to vote on. However, I just thought I would put that out as part of
the discussion. Um, because as a deputent said, there is no
sidewalk north of on Highway 9 on Highway 9, excuse me. North
Sorry. >> No, thank you for that. And um I'm sure
you can do a friendly amendment. Am I Is that allowed, Madame Clerk?
» Thank you, your worship. If um councelor Rappen is open to the friendly amendment
or he could ask to vote on his amendment.
» I believe the amendment would be keeping the bike lanes and my answer is no. I
will not accept that. That would be a hostile amendment.
» Okay. Councelor Cox. Sorry, councelor. I had to give you the opportunity to
respond. >> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I just
wanted to make sure I heard it clear. So, we're not putting in the bike lanes,
but we are putting in the white line lines. We have that similar on Patterson
Street. We're actually waiting for um a connector before we turn those into bike
lanes. um which will probably take uh still a number of years which would
probably still be uh the same for this also which means that you can still park
on the street. When it comes to the sidewalk, um since this is on committee,
if I could potentially ask staff to come back with how that's going to affect the
driveway parking now that um the amendment to this recommendation is
going to have the sidewalks curbside and we can see how that affects the uh on
driveway parking. That would be great um at our next meeting. But I am supportive
of also painting the white lines. It is a good traffic calming measure and if
there's still able to be on street parking then I think that's good for the
residents also. >> Thank you for that. So that was
direction for the next meeting to come back if that information can be
provided. Correct. Okay. Okay. Councelor Rappen, you have moved your motion.
Thank you. Is there a second for councelor Rapin's motion? Councelor Cox.
Everyone's heard it. All those in favor
one, two, three, four. Does not carry. So I'll read the original motion.
Church Street North Road and Bridge improvements update to item C-2.
Council, the recommendations that report number
ENG2026-16 be received and further council direct
staff to proceed with the street church street north road and bridge
improvements substantially as designed including sidewalk and bike lane
installation as outlined in report number 2026-16.
Um, councelor Bis, did you want to move it or you want to speak to it?
» Okay. Um, thank you, worship. I don't I I didn't I don't think that uh Council
Rapins plan went far enough, and I think that if we had included what Councelor
Harrison McIntyre in terms of getting rid of the the sidewalk, I think it may
have passed, but um certainly I won't support the original motion, and I think
um Council Rapid's motion didn't quite go far enough. So, um I'm it's too bad
that they left because I think there's more to this, more legs to this than
than what we're Brad,
» before I get there though, um,
» okay, Deputy Mayor, go ahead. >> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I've
heard a few members of council speak about precedent. This precedent has been
set through the municipality. We have um I always say and uh maybe it's not a
super popular thing, people love sidewalks until they're in front of
their house and then they absolutely I've been requested same as other
council members for sidewalks in certain areas of town consistently since I've
been on council since 2018. Um but also when the sidewalks are
happening in front of their house, nobody likes them. And it's generally
because they're losing parking. I get it. I only have a three-car parking lot.
If I had a sidewalk in front of my house, it would go down to two and and
that affects how how I operate my my family and my property. However, we've
done road reconstruction in Beaton and Tottenham and we've we've done the
sidewalks. The sidewalks are where I get sometimes feeling like they're not
necessary today, but when you're reconstructing a road, you're doing it
for the next 40 to 50 years of its life. So what we know today is not going to be
the alliston in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. And we do I mean we're
we're here for the to listen to the community, but we we also have to build
safe streets and sidewalks are a part of that. Um
it allows I met with some residents on Church Street. Um, and we met at their
house and we sat outside and um, it was about, I believe, 3:00 in the afternoon
and it was very easy to explain to to the residents why this road is
considered a minor collector. It was busy there. There was bikes on the
sidewalk. There was people walking on the sidewalk. There was tons of cars
going by. I think I stopped counting when I got to
I think it was 40 or 50 cars going by. I stopped counting. So, it is a very very
busy very busy street and um side like I said sidewalks are not popular when
they're in front of people's roads. I know in beaten um they did what
councelor Rapen suggested which was to move the sidewalk abuing basically the
curb of the road um which which allowed some more homeowners to have that third
or fourth space in in their driveway. Um, so I I I do appreciate the the
amendments that councelor RPen put on and I and I do support those. Thank you,
» Councelor Rappen, please. >> Thank you. I'm I'm lost as to where we
are in this. Uh, I'll just speak for a second. And, uh, number one, uh, the
south side of Church Street, they have curbside. That's what it is there for
crying out loud. Now, I just want to take it north and put a sidewalk there.
We the bike lanes in my assessment and my walking and talking to the citizens,
the residents on that street, they're concerned about the the aspect of
parking for those times that they need lots of parking, whether it's daycare
drop off at 8 in the morning or something like that. That's why I
suggested the calming uh white lines because when those cars aren't parked
and dropping off a kid or picking up a kid at a daycare, the bikes will go in
there. Cars don't purposely drive in those white lanes. They don't like
anyone who's driven on on uh Elbert. How many have driven in the white lane
there? Probably none of us. So, they're they're effective. Are they a bike lane?
No. I'm dis I'm I'm sorry that they're not an official bike lane. I do
recognize the fact that what we do now and I brought this up on many other
occasions in council with other things. We're not planning for me and you. I'm
planning 30 years from now. I'm planning 10 years from now. I'm planning 40 years
from now. It's I'm So some things are going to bite a few of us here and
there, but in the grand scheme of things, it's the the goal is the
community. The goal My goal is the community.
And I'm I'm I'm shocked that I wasn't able to relay that to to my c to to
council. I'm really disappointed that I I I didn't do my job and get this
across. And I and I apologize to the residents for that. Um I thought I had a
compromise of which some people are the idea is that everyone's a little bit
upset with me as opposed to some people really happy and some people really
upset. I'd much rather you all be a little upset at me or that kind of
scale. I'll take that. But with with whatever comes out of this, uh, I'm I'm
I'm afraid that maybe we've we've sort of let down the residence a little bit
on this one. I I think the compromise I had was a good one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry
that I didn't I wasn't able to uh to change the effects of anyone else on
that. So, >> thank you for those comments. Councelor
Gabbert, please. >> Thank you, your worship. I think my um
word precedent was taken out of context because I actually meant that going
forward we're going to have to do this in a lot more neighborhoods and it's
going to be a pain point coming up again and again. And if we do this in this
instance, it might still not meet the needs of the residents on Church North.
So are we setting a dangerous precedent by doing a peace meal of this project?
Um, so I thought that councelor Cox had a really good suggestion to hear back
from engineering um with what the lowered sidewalk might do in terms of uh
future clearing and precedent setting. >> Okay. Thank you. So is there any other
comments from members of council? So I think the request is to refer this back
to staff for more information that's been discussed around the table.
Everybody okay with that? Okay. So then, uh, Councelor Gabrick, you'll move it.
Councelor Cox, you'll second it. All those in favor? That carries. Thank you,
councel.
Okay, we're moving on to Give me a second here, please.
CW5-3 beaten community center redevelopment
project refinements and design direction. Did you uh you pulled that,
councelor Masters?
Thank you, worship. Am I on? >> Thank you, worship. Um, I just have a
comment really. Um, you know, the residents of Beaten,
including myself, prior to moving uh from the town six years ago after 43
years. Um, I've been highly focused on building a new community rec center
facility for many years now. However, we should recognize that our town
population has changed drastically over the last 20 years. Everything has
changed moving closer to one TNT community. Having said this, even though
this facility is being built and beaten, we should ensure it will support and be
able to be used by anyone in the town of New Dumps. That's my comment. Thank you.
» Thank you for that. Any other comments or questions in regards
story? Mr. Swirl, did you want to come up please?
If you've got this public meeting, please
first of all, thank you very much for allowing me to address the beaten
[sighs and gasps] uh issue. Um, for those who don't know me, I'm the
chair of the committee of adjustment and have been on the committee of adjustment
here in town for the past 14 years. But I'm not here to talk about that. I'm
here to uh actually give you an outline of what's happening with minor hockey
across Canada right now. And um it's my understanding um that
you're about to vote on a proposed new beaten arena. I myself played hockey
extensively as a youngster. Uh my two boys were on rep teams and Bruce can
attest to that because he put them in the penalty box many times. Um my
grandsons are also playing Triple A. Um and just to relieve any preconceived
notions that uh I'm not on board with the idea of a new rank. I am, but there
is some hurdles that need to be crossed. Um I can pick paint you a picture of the
current status of minor hockey throughout Ontario. Figure skating, ice
rentals, etc. that other communities are and have experienced over the past
number of years. They are all singing from the same hymbook. And we'll use New
Market as an example because I was president of New Market of Minor Hockey
back in the day. Um, and I was also on the committee of adjustment thanks to
Pam when I moved to to uh Allison. She grabbed me off the street and got me
involved here. Um, but their ice rinks are the biggest expenditure of the town.
Um, all the rinks in Ontario sit idle from midnight till uh till 4:00 in the
afternoon when the bus drops off to kids from school. The upkeep of any arena is
a 24-hour endeavor and an exorbitant cost to each and every town. The Ray
Twin Complex was a state-of-the-art in its day.
um at double ice pad last winter was shut down Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday all
winter long because the registration for hockey has dropped. When I was running
New Market Minor hockey, we had eight uh 2,800 kids. Today, they have 800 of
which only 200 play house lake. the other four the other 600 or 400 I think
it is four or five that that play rep hockey and now with the advent of the
OMA allowing kids from other centers to go
it even sets aside the number of kids that can play. So
what's really happened is however you know I do believe
» [clears throat] >> um that you have arrived at a 44 to 46
million expenditure for the beaten rink alone and that's what at least was
published. Um, I don't think I have to mention that
this is an election year, but your timing is a way off the mark and trying
to sell this expenditure 140 days prior to the election with an
estimated $500 bump to everyone's taxes in new tech just to cover part of the
project. Uh my question is have you ever explored
the muchneeded community center for host activities in beaten where it is
conducive to each householder and looked on as money well spent and better better
sell to the to all of new tech. That would be an excellent start and well
overdue. Lastly, in addition, prior to building a
new rink, the only [clears throat] way you can
build it is if it's justified. And I assume you've all done your homework and
ice time is at a premium in new tech right now.
What we did in New Market was we asked each individual group that uses ice over
the winter and ball hockey in the summer to give us the hour that they would
spend. So when you get that information, then you can say, "Okay, we need a new
rink or we don't need a new rink." Obviously, I hope you've done your
homework and you're asking for a new rank for $450 million or four45 million.
Um, if you do your homework, it's an easier sell. Soon as that came out in
the paper the other day, it's just gone rampant through town. And you guys don't
hear it, but I hear it. Um and getting comments from each association
uh for the coming year is what you really need. And you certainly should
look at [clears throat] the option of putting a single pad
attached to the current double pad here in town and that's your complex. Um the
infrastructure is there, the parking that uh I'm sure you're going to have to
add, but the lights are there, everything is there to get in and out.
Um and if you take a single pad and put it in along the other two, it's going to
be so much less expensive and a lot easier to sell to the public here in
town. When they see that number of 450, my phone rang off the hooks. They go,
"What the hell are they doing over there?" Um, and whether that's erroneous
or not, I'm not sure, but go ahead with go ahead with the community center in in
uh um Beaton where [clears throat] everybody can use it. You know, they
look at the older people look at the the ice rink and they go, "Well, we don't
use it, you know, but our kids do. We have to provide that. I understand that.
I get that." But I think what you really got to do is take this to the next
level. sit down and make sure you've exhausted every avenue of where you can
put the new rink besides beating. We we know you've done your homework with the
beaten thing, but make sure that you know are we going to save money by
putting in a single pad. Um you still got two pads there. Um but coming down
spending $45 million, it's not now. It's what Mr. Raffin said. Uh, councelor
Rappen said it's five years from now, 10, 15, 20 years, you're going to have
the Ray 20 complexes across Canada, which is happening right now, sitting
empty. And you still have to keep them going. You still have to to, you know,
if they open them up for a day or two days, they still got to have ice in
them. They still got the generators going and so on and so forth. I just ask
on behalf of everybody else that if you would just make sure all avenues are are
uh looked at and uh good luck. >> Thank you very much, sir.
Any other comments from members of the public? Okay, I'm not seeing any. Um
any comments, questions for members of council?
Councelor Cox. Thank you, Mayor Narcross. Uh, thank you
staff for this report and thank you for your deputation regarding the beaten
facility. We are at 99% um capacity for prime time ICE. Um, I understand that
the price tag on this seems high. Um, I can tell you that this council and
myself are going to exhaust every option for grant funding, sponsorship,
everything that was added into the motion before this came to council. Um,
also absent from the report was I know that the timeline was included as to
project milestones. Um, this is not going to be a tax hit
for the 2027 budget. um that's not how we do the funding for these projects.
So, we do have time to get that sponsorship um and that uh fundraising
and grant component. A number of counselors
uh the mayor, deputy mayor, and staff are going to be attending the AMO
conference in the next couple weeks. We have the opportunity to uh get in front
of ministers for the province to um uh get this project in front of them for
additional funding. Uh the federal government just released
uh grant opportunities for arenas and recreation components totaling I believe
it was around a billion dollars. Um
on top of that um I would like to ask staff it's the facility design to pursue
a high level of Rick Hansen Foundation accessibility certification
just is phenomenal. That sounds great. Just a few things missing in the report
for that. if we can get that to come back to the next meeting, how that could
uh potentially um affect the budget because I didn't
see uh any budget implica implications included in that and also the um design
footprint if we can get that back too. Um
and if we can also look into I know that staff is once again asking for an NHL
size ice service. um if we can look into potential sizing similar to the TCFC
which I believe is um kind of an in between the beaten facility currently
and what we have at the NTRC which is NHL size ice. I would appreciate uh that
coming back to look for potential cost savings in that too at the next meeting
please. >> Thank you.
» And sorry I'm I forgot one thing. Go ahead.
» If we can continue to work with um our ball hockey user group um and get any of
their questions answered that uh they've presented to council in the last couple
emails uh in the next couple weeks before we come back to council. Sorry, I
guess it's like a month, the next month before we come back to council. If we
can continue to have staff work with our ball hockey user group too, please.
» Okay. Just for clarity, councelor Cox, did you not want to make a decision on
this tonight till that information comes back?
» Um, no. We can we can still make a decision on this, I think, and that can
come back. We still it's not passing completely through. It's only committee.
So, we have that ability at uh at council, but if we have that additional
information while we pass this recommendation, that would be great.
Please. >> No, thank you. We just want to ask for
clarification. Councelor Masters. Thank you, worship. Um, I think, um, you
know, um, as councelor Cox mentioned, you know, there's some ice choices out
there. And, um, um, there's basically three ice choices. We have Olympic size,
we have our regular HA size, and we have our beaten size. And, um, I think that
question was brought forward before. Um but I noticed that um Carlo, president
of the ball hockey league is in in in the audience right now. Um there was a
discussion um regarding the size of the ice um and how it would be adaptable for
the ball hockey league and I think at that time it was mentioned that um the
ball hockey league doesn't need the whole ice there especially in practice
they can use part partial or half or a quarter. I'm not sure the exact wording
at the time. And um if that's the case, when the ice is taken out, um can we uh
is there a a sectioning off um equipment that can be used to divvy up the ice
according to how the bull hockey league would like to uh utilize it at that
time. And um and I I wonder if that if you have an answer to that or if that
has been discussed with the bull hockey league and that would dictate what ice
we can go with uh you know so uh which would be so if we decide to go with the
NHL size ice then perhaps that would work you know uh well for the ball
hockey league if we have the proper dividers to be you be in place. That's
my question.
Okay. So, your question I I don't think they finalized that design yet, but I'll
go to uh Director Mobs, please. >> Through your worship to um councelor
Masters, I do have Philip O Sullivan, the prime architect with working on the
project from Perkins Wall. So, I'll if it's okay with you, Mr. Mayor, I'll pass
it over to him to answer this question. Um if council wishes, we can also speak
to the cost for Rick Hansen certification as well.
Thank you. >> Go ahead, sir.
» Uh through you, Mr. Mayor to council masters. Um yes, the answer short answer
is yes. Um there can be any number of creative design solutions created to
utilize the ice, let's say an NHL size pad um in ways that could accommodate uh
ball hockey. Uh that's again would take a great deal of conversation with the
ball hockey league, which we're happy to do. We have done in the past already and
we're happy to continue that conversation. Um it remains to be seen
whether or not that'll be satisfactory to to the ball hockey league. That's
that's the first thing. Um I will say just as a a point of note that um to
your comment about three types of ice which was quite apt. Um we traditionally
in my career in the last kind of 25 years have done none other than NHL size
ice just as a record in terms of community standard across Ontario and
even the world if you will. Um and that's where I'll leave it on that. to
follow with the Rick Hansen. Um I have been part of or led the design team that
has had the great success of of having Rick Hansen design certification. Um and
that's a gold they give it gold stars. Um we have in fact received three as far
as I recall. Um that process is done in a two-stage process. It's done both in
the design phase which is means all the way up to the end of drawings prior to
bid. That's when you get your your kind of first design. They go through it in a
couple of iterations and ask questions about that and that's incorporated into
the design process. That's not that there's no cost to you save and accept
um the registration which is relatively minor compared to the the price tag of
the building as a whole. Um and secondly the second part of the certification is
during what they call occupancy preoccupancy you do a review and you
have uh the reviewer who is assigned by Rick Hansen they come to the building
and they look at it before you occupy to make sure there is no kind of
outstanding um deficiencies I'll call it in terms of their review from the design
side and again that is also it's it's kind of a predium rate relative to how
many times they've got to come back. So overall in general without having
specific project sizes as you say we haven't finished the design but the cost
is relatively minor or I would say minor compared to things like lead
certification other kind of certifications that are out there
relative to building well fit well that kind of thing.
» Okay thank you councelor Biss. >> Uh thank you worship. I think this is a
great discussion tonight. You know we're looking at a $46 million project. We
need to get this right. It's a lot of money. So, we have to make sure that we
take all the input from our friends in ball hockey, our friends at TNT. Um, you
know, we've got to figure out what we can do in order to reduce the costs, not
just the capital cost, but also the operating costs. Let's make sure that we
keep that in mind. How much is that how much that's going to cost the taxpayer
every year? And so, I think this is great discussion. And I think um I think
it's good that we're taking this slowly, that we're looking at all the options
and like I like we've talked about tonight, what is the most appropriate
size of the ice in order for us to uh accommodate today's users and
potentially tomorrow's users. I'm a big believer that uh there's only right now
we live in the moment. The future can't be determined. The past is the past. So
let's live in the moment and let's figure out exactly what we need today.
Um but what we definitely need is to make sure that we um do this in the most
cost-effective manner possible. So I look forward to having more update uh
another update come the council meeting next month and um any work that can be
done in order to accommodate and work with our user groups so that we can
ensure that they use it to keep our operating costs down because at the end
of the day we've got to make sure that those user groups that pay the bills are
still there to pay the bills when we build this $46 million facility. So, um,
your worship, I would just ask staff just keep be cognizant of that fact that
make sure the user groups are all consulted that they that we that they
understand the cost that we're working on here and that we can continue to
figure a way to reduce the cost of this facility. And to councelor Cox's uh uh
to what she was saying, let's make sure we do our very best in order to get
grants from the other levels of government in order to make this
affordable despite the fact that we are going to grow hugely in this this this
municipality. So we'll have a larger tax base. Nevertheless, we need to
understand that this is these these prices and these costs are going to be
impacting today's residents and not tomorrow's.
» Thank you for those comments. So, um, I've had nobody offer to refer this till
the additional information is received. And the recommendation is that council
confirm a North American ice surface measuring approximately 200 feet by 85
feet as the functional program for the beaten community center redevelopment
project and its report number RFC2026-23 be received and for the council direct
staff and the project consultant to incorporate universal accessibility
princip principles into the facility design and pursue a high level of Rick
Hansen Foundation RHFAC. including design considerations to support sledge
hockey program and participation. And further, council direct staff to review
and refine project contingency and soft cost allowances through detailed design
and report back to council with updated estimates at a project at appropriate
project milestones. So, councelor Cox, did you want to move that? Okay. Is
there somebody like to second that? Um, councelor Rappen. All those in favor?
It's carried. Thank you. Okay. So, we look forward to the future report. So,
thank you very much. And Director Mobs that we're clear. Yeah, we're fine.
Okay, great. Thank you so much.
Okay, we have no public notices and we're moving on to a German.
Great job tonight, Madam Clerk. Thank you.
So, we have a recommendation that the and your team recommendation that the
committee of the whole meeting of July 27, 2026 adjourn at 7:22 p.m. Councelor
Bish, you'll move that. Councelor Masters, you'll second that. Thank you.
Thank you to all the residents that came out tonight. Thank you to staff.