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Thank you very much. Welcome to the
council meeting Monday, July 27th, 2026.

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Could everybody please rise for the
singing of O Canada and could you please

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remain standing for a moment of silent
contemplation? Thank you.

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Thank you. Please be seated.

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At the town of Nuda comes, we
acknowledge that we're on the treaty

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lands and traditional territory of the
Nishanabi peoples, specifically the

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Ojiu, Chipawa, Odawa, and Pawatami
peoples, collectively known as the Three

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Fires Confederacy. This land is now home
to many diverse First Nations, Inuit,

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and Miti peoples.
New Dumps is covered by the Lake Simco

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Navasaga Treaty number 18 signed on
October 17th, 1818 with the Chipoa

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Nation. We acknowledge that we're all
treaty people and accept our

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responsibility to honor all our
relations and move forward in the spirit

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of reconciliation and respect. Thank
you. So, I'm going to go to awards and

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recognitions, please. Councelor Bis.
>> Uh, thank you, worship. Um, once again,

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I'd like to congratulate uh our senior
of the year, Donna Jeb. She's in the

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audience again tonight uh for being
awarded the Adelaide Hunter Hoodless

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Canadian Woman of the Year for her
outstanding leadership, inspiration to

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others, and support to the community
both locally, nationally, and

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internationally. Congratulations, Donna.
Well done again.

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No, thank you very much. And I just like
to acknowledge um everybody knows, but

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Donna was a counselor and the former
deputy mayor of the town of New

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Thompson, too. So, thank you for all
those years of dedication. Donna, and it

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was actually kind of nice, Donna, Rick
Mill, myself, and Mark Bis from the

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former council actually got to see each
other tonight. Did you want to say why?

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» Uh, thank you, worship. Um, so for the
people at home, um, before council met,

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uh, met this evening, um, we had the
honor of doing a dedication for the JJ

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Paul Whiteside Executive Boardroom. We
invited, uh, Mr. Paul Whiteside's family

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to come, friends, neighbors, former
counselors, the mayors, etc. and and we

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celebrated uh a life well-lived, a man
who served our community uh faithfully

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for many many years and a person and a
family that um that we can never forget

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and it's his name has been immortalized
on his executive boardroom. So, thank

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you worship for helping us to to put
that together.

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» Oh, thank you councelor Bis. Councelor
Masters, please.

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» Thank you worship. We have a couple
announcements. Um the first announcement

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is I'd just like to say I've just come
back from New Brunswick where um I was

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with my um my grandson who's playing in
the Canadian National Ball Hockey

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Championships and uh with TNT which is
one of the Canada's number one of North

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America's largest groups in ball hockey
and uh I don't have all the final

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numbers with me but um our teams did
exceedingly well I I think winning gold,

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silver, bronze and uh at all levels and
um just very proud of uh what TNT um put

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forward uh in these championships.
Um I think there's a photo up there

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somewhere.

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Managed to take a photo there.

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Let me

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while I find that I'll go into the next
one. Um um blood donors. Um just a note,

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I'm sure you've seen it on the TV and um
and other media that we're really in

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need of blood
>> [clears throat]

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» um this time of year. Um especially now
um Blood Canada is looking u for uh for

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extra help in um and bringing their
supplies back up to where they should

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be. And um so with that in mind, we have
two clinics coming up. One is at the AMA

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on uh Thursday, July the 30th, and the
other one is a Tottenham Community

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Fitness Center on Saturday, September
the 19th. Um, please go uh and check uh

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for blood.ca because the some of the
times are changing now. They're trying

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to get more people in throughout the
day. So, you know, it may be instead of

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1 to uh you know, 9 to1, it might be uh
10 to 2 or something like this. So,

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please check for your local um for the
local times for your own for your own

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clinics. Um, and that photo was up there
was a quick photo I took of some of the

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sake.
>> Thank you very much.

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» And the boys celebrating.
>> Thank you very much, councelor Masters.

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Councelor Rapin, please

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» have a look at the photo. Everybody
[snorts]

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» All right. Uh, thank you very much, Mr.
Mayor. over uh the last four years I've

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had the the privilege to participate in
a lot of things and um I've been very

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envious of um Tottenham and uh this year
beaten in terms of their cash draws that

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they've been running uh the Tottenham
one I I was there and I was volunteering

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at it and people were coming in and
saying hi to their neighbors from 20

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years ago. They haven't lived in the
community for 20 years, but they could

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go to the cash drawer, the car drawer,
whatever it was, and they'd run into

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each other. And and I I I envied that.
And I was wondering

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how can we do that in Alist? And I and I
know for a fact that we used to we used

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to have a car draw and we also had Relay
for Life, where we would see our old

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neighbors and and our community together
and we'd have an opportunity. Um, but

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with that in mind, I've created the
tragically hip day, which is August

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22nd. And forgive me for telling you
about it in July, but we don't have

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council until after the tragically hip
day. So, I thought I'd tell you now. Um,

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Tragically Hips uh con last concert they
ever performed in Kingston was 10 years

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ago, August 22nd. And uh CBC will be
releasing the the concert uh that night

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at 7:00. We will be having a big screen
in the band shell and we'll be playing

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that concert for anyone who wants to
come for free to um to watch it. And

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leading into that, we've got six or
seven bands that will also be playing

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their own songs as well as hip songs.
And I'm sure for those of you that are

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going, "Big deal, I don't like the hip."
Well, we've got Cora Dairy. So, uh, that

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that might that might get you there. Uh,
they'll they'll be serving out the

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tragically chipped ice cream flavor,
which is really hard to get. Uh, so

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anyway, hope to see you all there. It
should be a lot of fun. Uh, try and walk

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or bike to it. Please don't don't drive.
Could be kind of busy. Thank you.

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» No, thank you, Councelor Rapin. And
you're right. Ice cream brings everybody

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to events. Yeah. No, it certainly does.
Any more from members of council? Hey, I

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just want to take this opportunity to
give a happy 90th birthday shout out to

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former two-time mayor in two different
municipalities,

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longtime counselor here, very involved
in the community, approximately 30 years

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of a municipal service that she has
dedicated, Francis Sainsbury. And I

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always like to call her Francis because
she gives me that look. So anyhow, if

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you're watching, Francis, on behalf of
the entire council, happy 90th birthday.

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Thank you.
>> Okay, Madam Clerk, I don't see anything

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else on my screen, so I'm going to go to
the clerk to identify any items to add

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or delete to the agenda, please. Madam
clerk,

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» thank you. Your worship, there are no
items to add or delete this evening.

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» Thank you. So, we have a motion to be
resolved to the agenda for the council

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meeting held on July 27th, 2026. be
confirmed as circulated. Councelor Best,

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thank you. Councelor Masters, thank you.
All those in favor? That's carried.

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Thank you. Disclosure of peunary
interest. Are there any members of

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council have a disclosure of pecunary
interest?

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Councelor Gabbert, please.
>> Thank you, your worship. Uh R-3, my

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spouse is an employee at Honda of
Canada.

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» Thank you, Councelor Gabbert.

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Okay, I'm not seeing any other. So, we
need a motion now. Adoption of council

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minutes be resolved that the minutes of
the council meeting dated July 13th,

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2026 be adopted as circulated. Deputy
mayor, would you move that please? Thank

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you. Uh, councelor Harrison McIntyre,
you're here virtually. Would you second

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that? Thank you.
All those in favor? And that's carried.

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Thank you.
So, I can go to the clerk now identify

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items for separate discussion and the
reason thereof, please, madam clerk.

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» Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening
we just have item R3 as there is a

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disclosure of pecunary interest. Uh the
follow-up report Canada North vehicles

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initiative costs resources allocated and
measurable outcomes. Thank you.

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» Thank you. I'm going to go to council
now to identify items for separate

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discussion.
Councelor Masters please

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R-3 and CW1-2.
You worship.

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I'm going to come back to this in a
moment to see if there's any other

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members of council. Okay, I'm not seeing
any in regards to CW-2.

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» I'll hand it over to you, clerk.
>> Thank you, your worship. Um, as it would

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follow the same procedure as it did at
committee, you would need a twothirds

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vote to even reconsider the motion. Then
the motion would be on the floor and you

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would need a majority vote to pass.
>> Okay. So, as per the clerk's

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instructions, require a majority of
councel to allow this on the floor.

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Correct. Twothirds.
>> Yeah. First, we need the twothirds vote

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to to reconsider the motion. Then you
would need to reconsider the motion.

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» So, all those in favor of reconsidering
the motion, put your hands up, please.

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» Okay. Councelor Rapens declared a
pecunior interest. All those in favor of

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reconsidering the motion, put your hands
up.

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Okay, that does not pass. Councelor
Masters, as per our procedural bylaw, it

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will not be pulled on tonight's agenda
meeting. Thank you.

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So, we have a motion be resolved item CW
Sorry, can someone let Councelor Rapid

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Oh, there he is. Be resolved at that
item CW1 to CW5 and the committee of the

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whole meeting report dated July 13,
2026,

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including additional information
memorandums with the exception of those

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items identified for separate discussion
be approved and the recommendations

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therein be adopted. and further that
communication items and any other items

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listed on the council meeting agenda
dated July 27th 2026

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with the exception of those items
identified for separate discussion to be

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received and or adopted. Uh councelor
Rapin, would you move that please? Thank

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you. Councelor Gabrick, would you second
that? Thank you.

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Deputations. Sorry. All those in favor.
Thank you. Deputations requiring

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statutory or public meetings. I don't
have any. Deputations relating to new

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matters. There's none on the docket.
So, we're going to go to R-3

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that was pulled by councelor Gabri for
canary interest.

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So, I have a motion. It's uh be resolved
of report number GI2026-07

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regarding the Canada North Vehicles
Initiative follow-up costs, resources

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allocated, and measurable outcomes be
received. Um, councelor Cox, would you

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move that? Thank you. Councelor Bis,
would you second that? Thank you. All

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those in favor? That's carried. Thank
you. Thank you, councel.

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» Okay, madam clerk, I'm going to move on
to the bylaws, please.

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» Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Councilor Masters
Rdash.

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» It's a comment I'd like to pass on to
staff regarding Canada North

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Association. I think this is a at this
economic time for Ontario and Canada. I

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think this is a great um effort that's
put forward by everybody. I just want to

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suggest make a recommendation that
Canada North Association

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set up communications for information
with JAMAMAR the Japanese automobile

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association. Jammer's communicators are
more broad and include much of Japan's

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auto industry from a political general
industry overview and group directors

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affecting the globe including Canada. So
I think there's um more connections that

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we can make by using the JAMAMA group
which is the group that uh sets the pace

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for the auto industry in Japan. Thank
you.

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» Thank you for those comments. So it was
moved by councelor Cox, seconded by

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councelor Bis. All those in favor that's
carried. Thank you. Going to move on to

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the bylaws now. Please madam clerk. So,
we have a motion be resolved that the

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following bylaws be read a first,
second, and third time, and enacted.

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Bylaw 2026-067,
bylaw 2026-068.

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Councelor Masters, would you move that?
>> Thank you. Councelor Ha McIntyre, will

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you second that? Thank you. All those in
favor? That's carried. Thank you,

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councel. General information
announcements. I don't have any. We have

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no public notices.
So we have the confirming bylaw be it

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resolved that bylaw 2026-069
to confirm the proceeding of council at

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its meeting on July 27th 2026 be read at
first second and third time enacted

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deputy mayor would you move that thank
you councelor Rapin will you second that

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thank you all those in favor that's
carried thank you so we have adjournment

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be resolved with the meeting adjourn at
6:16 please councelor Gabri would you

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move that thank you councelor Cox thank
you all those in favor that's carried

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thank you councel
Madam Clerk, I'm going to go right into

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the committee meeting.

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So, we're going to do the confirmation
of agenda. We have a recommendation that

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the agenda for the committee of the
whole meeting held on July 27th, 2026 be

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confirmed as circulated. Councelor Bis,
thank you. Councelor Masters, you'll

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second that. Thank you. All those in
favor? That's carried. Thank you. Any

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disclosures of pecuniary interest
please?

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» Council Rapid

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on CW42
of the suggestions is property that

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backs onto my onto my property.
>> Thank you, Councelor Gabri.

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» Thank you, your worship. Um I'm I'm
declaring on the same uh number as well

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for the uh same reason stated before.
Thank you.

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» Okay. CW42, you're declaring one. Thank
you.

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Okay. Thank you.
So, I'm gonna go to the clerk now.

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» Oh, you're not.
>> Thank you.

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» Oh, you're already on.
>> Yeah. I don't know how that happened.

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Um, I'd like you to declare on CW51,
accessible parking and traffic by

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updates. I live on the 13th line.
>> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, councelor

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Bus.

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Okay.
So,

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just [clears throat] one second here.
So, madam clerk, can you lift us off the

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items for separate discussion and the
reason they're up, please? Because I

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have just want to make sure I've
captured them all.

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» Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening
we have item CW42 as there is a

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disclosure of pecunary interest proposed
acquisition of environmental protection

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00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:27,039
lands for habitat compensation and CW51
also a disclosure of pecunary interest

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on accessible parking and traffic bylaw
updates.

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» Okay. Thank you madam clerk. So those
three items have been pulled for

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pecunary interest but will still come
up. So I'm going to go to council now to

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identify items for separate discussion
please. Councelor Rapen

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» CW52 please.

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Thank you, Councelor Masters. CW53, you
worship. Thank you.

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» Thank you, Councelor Gabbert, please.
>> Thank you. Uh CW11, please.

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» Thank you.
So, I'm going to go to the members of

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the public now. Are there any members of
the public? if they would like to speak

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to any of the items on the agenda,
please.

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» Yes, sir. Which item, sir?

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» Okay. And your name, please, sir? Uh,
you don't have to come right now. I'll I

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just make a note of it.

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» Thank you. Any other members of the
public?

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Okay. I'm not seeing any. So, I'm going
to the clerk to summarize all items

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identified for separate discussion,
please.

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00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:47,600
Thank you, your worship. Item CW11, from
the ground, land for non-market housing.

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00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:52,559
A written motion from councelor Harrison
McIntyre. Uh CW42,

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proposed acquisition of environmental
protection lands for habitat

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00:22:53,919 --> 00:23:00,880
compensation as there is a disclosure of
pecunary interest. CW51, accessible

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00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:05,200
parking and traffic bylaw updates as
there is a disclosure of pecunary

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00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:09,919
interest. CW52
Church Street North Road and Bridge

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00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:14,320
improvements update to item C-2 Council
May 25th, 2026. Petition regarding

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Church Street North bike lanes and
sidewalk and CW53

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00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:24,960
Beaten Community Center redevelopment
project refinements and design

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direction. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Madam Clerk.

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So we have a recommendation that all the
items not identified for separate

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discussion be received and the
recommendations therein be recommended

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to council for adoption. Councelor
Harrison McIntyre, will you move that

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00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:43,360
please? Thank you. Deputy mayor, will
you second that please? Thank you. All

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00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:50,480
those in favor?
That's carried. Thank you very much.

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So the first item was CW1
one from the ground land for non-market

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housing. Councelor, it's a written
motion, I believe,

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from councelor Harrison McIntyre. You
pulled that item. Councelor Gabbert,

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00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:07,360
would you like to speak, please? Thank
you.

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00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,960
» Thank you, your worship. I just had a
quick question. I know that the

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information will come back to council.
um including the property's value to our

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00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:19,760
taxpayers, but I'm just wondering from
staff what types of property could fall

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00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:24,799
under non-market housing and could this
include supportive housing or emergency

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uh shelters or is the intent strictly
affordable housing for the long term?

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00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:37,760
» I will look to um I guess director
Saget, would you answer that or GM

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00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:43,120
Hoppy, do you want me to How would you
What would you prefer?

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00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:47,360
your worship. Um I staff have I've just
received this so I don't think we um we

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00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,480
have all the information before us but
uh I don't know if councelor Harrison

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00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:56,240
McIntyre has anything to add to the
conversation at this point.

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00:24:52,960 --> 00:25:00,080
» Okay. All right. So duly noted that you
are requiring more information. So if

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00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:05,440
that is that okay council camera. Thank
you. So we have item CW1-1

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00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,360
from the ground land for non-market
housing. Everyone has read the motion.

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00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:13,200
Do you require it to be read again?
I'm not seeing that. So, councelor

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00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:18,000
Harrison McIntyre, would you move that?
Thank you, Councelor Gabrick. Sure.

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00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:24,679
Thank you. All those in favor? It's
carried. Thank you, councel.

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00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,679
We're going to move on to CW41.

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00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:32,320
And we have two conflicts pulled on
CW41.

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00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:38,720
And uh that was by councelor Rapen and
councelor Gabri

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or sorry 42. I mean, yeah, 42.
And we also Okay, so just let me get

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00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,600
there, please.

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00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:58,240
» So this is a proposed acquisition of
environmental protection lands for

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00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:02,080
habitat compensation.
Councelor Cox.

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00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:06,320
» Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Three you to
staff. Um, I see through the

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00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:14,240
compensation land we're compensating for
86 hectare build through Honda. Um, I

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00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:19,520
didn't see a size listed for option one.
Option two was around 28 hectares with

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00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:25,799
20 of that being able to be
environmentally protected. Can I get the

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00:26:21,679 --> 00:26:25,799
sizing for option one, please?

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00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,400
» Thank you. I'll go over to Director
Saget, please.

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00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:39,120
» Thank you, your worship. I'm going to
ask uh um

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00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:43,760
Caitlyn Cosg Gro or um manager of
development to assist in that regard.

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00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:47,600
She was um um instrumental in pulling
this report together. So hopefully she's

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00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:54,640
got that detail for us.
>> Thank you. Welcome manager Cosgrove.

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00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:58,080
» And through you to councelor Cox. Uh the
compensation lands that we are looking

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00:26:56,159 --> 00:27:02,400
for are to account for habitat. So
there's a particular habitat size that

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we're looking for. It's just under 14
acres of habitat lands for compensation.

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00:27:05,679 --> 00:27:09,039
» Okay.
>> Supplementary if I could through you,

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00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,760
Mr. Mayor.
>> Thank you.

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00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:17,200
» Um I know that the M ZO lands are are
being used for this and the um

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00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:22,480
environmental component that's unable to
be built on. Do we know offhand if those

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00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:28,159
M zo lands will require a compensation
component for being built on? And if so,

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00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:32,480
how does that relate or fit into um
these compensation properties being used

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00:27:29,919 --> 00:27:35,360
for Honda
>> manager?

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00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,919
» Through you, Mr. Mayor, to councelor
Cox. The compensation, there would be no

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00:27:37,919 --> 00:27:45,039
monetary compensation of lands. These
lands were scheduled to come to the town

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00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:51,039
through a plan of subdivision process.
So, there's no exchange of money other

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00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:55,840
than the $1 exchange that occurs with,
you know, um the exchange of property.

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00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:59,440
» Okay. Sorry, just supplementary. Maybe I
I probably wasn't clear with my

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00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:05,120
question. So, when the M ZO lands are
built on, will there be a compensation

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00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:09,919
component for Flat to pay for their M ZO
property being built on? Did they do an

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00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:16,399
environmental impact study that may be
attributed to breeding bird habitat or

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00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:20,559
anything? So, is or is that something
that they've already established is not

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00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:25,679
needed because the MTO property? I just
want to make sure that uh if there's any

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00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:31,200
compensation land required for Flat to
provide that this they're maybe not

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00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:34,240
doubling up on the Honda property.
>> Manager

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00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,919
» through you mayor to councelor Cox. Uh
to the best of my knowledge there has

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00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:42,000
not been any environmental study
completed for the flat uh plan of

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00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:46,000
subdivision as it was brought forward
through a minister's zoning order. So

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00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:52,000
that was not a requirement of the
process as the province stepped in and

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00:28:48,399 --> 00:28:57,360
approved that plan of subdivision.
>> Sorry, just one more supplementary just

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00:28:53,600 --> 00:29:00,640
so we can make sure that when that M Zo
I guess plan of subdivision comes

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00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:03,360
forward. If there is a compensation
component, I'd like to make sure that

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00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,039
we're not going to be doubling up on
that environmentally sensitive and

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00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:13,960
compensation land that there will be a
requirement probably for additional

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00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,960
lands to be added for that component.

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00:29:14,159 --> 00:29:22,320
Sorry, I sorry. Go ahead, man.
>> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. You councelor

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00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:27,600
Cox, your comments are noted. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, we have CW-4

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00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:31,679
Strategic Services. It's proposed
acquisition of environmental protection

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00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:35,679
lands for habitat compensation.
Councelor Bis, would you Thank you,

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00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:39,200
Councelor Masters. Thank you. All those
in favor? That's carried. Thank you.

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00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,760
Councelor Gabric and Councelor Rapen,
you're back in, please.

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00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:51,440
The next one is CW51. It's accessible
parking and traffic bylaw updates.

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00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:56,480
Councelor Bis has declared a conflict of
interest on that. Thank you, Council

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00:29:52,799 --> 00:30:00,440
Bess. Any comments or questions?
Okay, I'm not seeing any.

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00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:06,799
So, CW51 accessible parking traffic
bylaw updates and there's a

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00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,799
recommendation that report
number-2026-15

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00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:17,520
be received. Um, everyone's has the
motion. Is there a requirement to read

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00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:22,720
it? Okay, I'm not seeing that. All those
in favor? Well, going to have a mover in

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00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:27,360
second or so. Deputy mayor and councelor
uh councelor Rappen. All those in favor?

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00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:32,720
And that's carried. Thank you. Councelor
Bis, you're back in, please, sir. Okay,

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00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:36,080
we're going to move to CW52. We do have
uh that was pulled by councelor Rapen,

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00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:41,240
but we do have a member of the audience,
Brent, that would like to speak. Would

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00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,240
you like to come up now, sir?

324
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Welcome.

325
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,279
» Good evening and thank you for listening
to uh tonight. I can only speak for

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00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:59,360
myself and my wife, but I'm sure that I
speak for many Church Street North

327
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:04,640
residents. To say that hearing of the
plan to proceed with the original plan

328
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:08,640
was disappointing would be a gross
understatement. A number of Church

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00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:13,039
Street residents
shared their thoughts, concerns, and

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00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:18,320
reasons as to why the original plan is
both poor and not needed. And it is

331
00:31:15,919 --> 00:31:23,360
clear that you, the council and
incumbent mayor, did not take us

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00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:27,919
seriously. To start with, I believe that
before any final decisions are made, the

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00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,559
secondary plans
placed at the very bottom of your latest

334
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:38,559
information release, one which included
no bike lanes and the other having no

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00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:44,320
sidewalk and bike lanes, be revisited
and implemented. Both these options save

336
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:49,360
money, acknowledge that there is no need
for a sidewalk on the east side or bike

337
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:54,159
lanes, and demonstrate that the needs of
voting residents actually matter.

338
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:59,440
It is odd to me that during the 20 May
25th meeting, one counselor recommended

339
00:31:56,399 --> 00:32:03,840
that no bike lanes be put in and another
counselor brought up great points such

340
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:09,440
as the subdivision on the north end has
been built and as such the population is

341
00:32:06,159 --> 00:32:14,399
what it is and the volume of traffic is
what it is. No in-depth traffic surveys

342
00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:18,880
were done warranting the sidewalk or
bike lanes. Two elected counselors

343
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:25,679
expressed clear reasons as to why the
original plan should not proceed and yet

344
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:30,480
here we are. So who then has the voice,
the real voice or power? Why don't the

345
00:32:28,399 --> 00:32:36,799
voices of counselors acting on behalf of
Worn W citizens not count? Our voices

346
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:41,519
matter. Our [clears throat] concerns are
real. But what we have seen is that they

347
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:46,799
don't.
They don't matter at all. How can they

348
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:51,200
if input from elected officials don't?
Councilors and all elected officials

349
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:56,320
have the duty and responsibility not
just to listen to constituents but to

350
00:32:53,360 --> 00:33:01,200
act on their behalf. Apparently not in
this case. Furthermore, during the May

351
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:05,919
25th meeting, only one counselor seemed
to know anything of substance about the

352
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:09,840
plan. He brought up great points,
excellent questions to the engineer,

353
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:14,799
spoke with insight and demonstrated a
thorough understanding of the plan, its

354
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:21,039
issues and faults therein.
All of our counselors remain silent,

355
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:25,600
seemingly almost afraid to speak. Very
few demonstrated any real understanding

356
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:31,440
of the issue or were simply not willing
to share their thoughts or do not care

357
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:35,440
enough. Not good enough.
While reading the latest release of

358
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:40,960
information about how you would like to
proceed, it was hard not to notice how

359
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:45,679
hard you worked to neutralize all of the
elements you did so poorly throughout

360
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:50,240
this process. You identified most of
them, i.e. the doorners, and then had

361
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:55,720
the gall to suggest that the door
knockers were handed out to give

362
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:55,720
residents more time.

363
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:01,519
You brought up the cost and savings
associated with putting in sidewalks or

364
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:05,840
not putting in sidewalks and then
marginalized them and made it sound as

365
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:10,879
if these cost-saving measures for
completely unneeded infrastructure are

366
00:34:07,919 --> 00:34:15,760
wrong and would negatively impact us. It
was quite a read complete with all the

367
00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:20,879
necessary little coverups. Change
happens. Yeah. But to disrupt lives,

368
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:24,320
take away property, and conduct
yourselves in ways which place

369
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:29,679
significant doubts in our democratic
system is deeply disturbing and not the

370
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:35,760
type of change we as voting citizens
need at a time when we all need to do

371
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:40,000
better. You have not. Change happens
yet. But the changes to our properties,

372
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,280
loss of parking, and unneeded bike
lanes, which I might add the ward one

373
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,760
counselor even acknowledged was
unnecessary.

374
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:52,639
when he finally decided to speak do not
need to happen. I believe even your

375
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:56,639
lawyers said this
that the original plan does not need to

376
00:34:54,240 --> 00:35:01,760
go ahead as planned and yet again here
we are. The people who vote for you or

377
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:08,320
even let you put a sign in their front
yard have been cast aside and for what?

378
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:12,480
There must be reasons as transparency
throughout this process has not been the

379
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:16,320
strong suit and we the voting public are
not privy to the behind-the-scenes

380
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,680
goings on.
It doesn't take much of an imagination

381
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,599
to come up with some disturbing and sad
reasons why these decisions have been

382
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:28,320
made. All of which by the way do not
meet the needs of the constituents in

383
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:33,200
this area or the town. Especially given
the fact the fact that the proposed

384
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:37,359
sidewalks and bike lanes again are not
needed.

385
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:42,560
Town council, by choosing not to put in
unnecessary sidewalk and bike lanes, you

386
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:46,079
a save money, which could be better
spent

387
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:51,040
on other needed projects such as a new
beaten arena, or as I just received a

388
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:54,880
text from uh Nelson Street West, use
taxpayer dollars appropriately to

389
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,440
rebuild and fix a bridge in desperate
need of repair, upgrade aging water and

390
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:04,560
sewer infrastructure,
and allow voting citizens to keep their

391
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:09,200
property in significantly
uh decrease disruption to our everyday

392
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:16,400
lives. We may be a small number of
people in a growing town, but our needs,

393
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:23,200
concerns, and beliefs matter. So far,
that has not been the case.

394
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:27,680
Town council, act and make decisions not
based on pressures from people who do

395
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:34,079
not know our town, its needs, concerns,
or people. act and make decisions not

396
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:38,800
based on companies or people who are
looking out for themselves and their

397
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:44,880
financial or political gains. Instead,
council act and make decisions on behalf

398
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:51,200
of the people who voted for you so that
you can sit in the chairs you currently

399
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:57,760
occupy. Anything less is unacceptable.
Church Street North does not need a

400
00:36:53,440 --> 00:37:02,480
sidewalk on the east side or bike lanes.
do right

401
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:08,440
by us and make the s necessary
adjustments to this plan. Thank you.

402
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:17,119
Thank you very much.
That was the only gentleman I had uh

403
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:25,280
asking to speak about the church street
north. So, councelor Rapid.

404
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:30,320
» Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Uh,
thank you Brent for your presentation.

405
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:35,680
Getting used to seeing you every couple
months. So hopefully it'll be for

406
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:41,839
something else the next time. Let's see
if we can solve this. Um, the way

407
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:45,760
this is this is a a four-year learning
curve for me as well. When I see stuff

408
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,240
and I think, "Oh, that doesn't seem like
the right way." I'll I'll ask staff.

409
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:54,240
They'll explain it. And sometimes I do
see it their way, and sometimes I still

410
00:37:52,000 --> 00:38:01,200
don't see it the right way. and I still
just see it my way and uh and then

411
00:37:57,839 --> 00:38:08,560
that's when I discuss with others and uh
eventually come up with a decision. So

412
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:13,920
for me just today I biked Church Street
North six times, not to bike it to to

413
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:19,040
show people I'm on it, but to get to the
pool, to get to downtown, to get to the

414
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:23,520
things I I use it quite a bit. Um I also
bike a few other spots quite a bit now.

415
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:28,000
Uh,
forgive me for the preamble. One of the

416
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:33,839
there's three spots I really like biking
in our town. Uh, King Street,

417
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:37,280
uh, King Street North going to
Barntormers, not because of Barntormers,

418
00:38:35,599 --> 00:38:46,079
but just going along that stretch.
Albert Street and part of the ag

419
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:51,040
new Tcumpa town line where they've got a
one and a half to 2 meter paved shoulder

420
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:55,440
with a a white line along it and it
gives me lots of it's not declared a

421
00:38:52,640 --> 00:39:01,359
bike lane. It's just it just narrows the
road to sort of induce traffic calming I

422
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:05,119
think and it gives me some space to
bike. Uh King Street you'll see it

423
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,960
Albert Street's a little wider. It's
it's much wider. I'm not 100% sure of

424
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:13,440
it. You're still allowed to park on
those roads, but it gives you a feeling

425
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:17,119
that you can bike safely and I
understand. I' I've been down Church

426
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,079
Street quite a bit and there's some days
there's a pool party happening and

427
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,200
there's like five or six cars parked on
the road and I understand. I'm assuming

428
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:28,560
it's a pool party. Never been invited,
but uh [laughter]

429
00:39:25,839 --> 00:39:34,079
but um there there's those things. So, I
understand those concerns. Um so, I

430
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:38,800
recognize that. So, the the first thing
I'm going to recommend to council is

431
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:44,640
that um
the we don't put in official bike lanes,

432
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:48,000
but we create these um these paved
shoulders with the white lines. There

433
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,000
are some other options. I was showed
some other options where there's these

434
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:55,680
uh white triangles emanating out of the
the curb that just sort of makes traffic

435
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,520
go a little bit further away from the
curb. It doesn't really mean anything, I

436
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:03,200
don't think, but it just but it allows
some space for bikers. So, it's not an

437
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:10,560
official bike lane and yes, you can park
in it. Um, so I'm going to be recommend

438
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:16,320
recommending that and I've sent a um
an attempt at a mo an amendment or or

439
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:21,599
whatever for that. The next thing is um
I've been uh I've had a few

440
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:26,400
conversations about the sidewalk on the
east side and and I've talked to the

441
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,760
residents as well about it and I've made
this suggestion. This shouldn't come in

442
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:35,119
as any surprise, but I'm going to be
recommending that the the sidewalk on

443
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:38,720
the east side be a curbside
so that way there's no boulevard that

444
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:43,920
leads to the sidewalk so that your
driveway will be longer. Now, staff has

445
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:48,720
told me that this is harder to maintain.
And I fully understand that because when

446
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:52,800
the snow plow when the the sidewalk plow
goes by and cleans it, the snow plow

447
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:58,240
will always go by right after and put
snow back on. I understand that. Um,

448
00:40:55,119 --> 00:41:03,520
let's say that happens 10 times a year.
I'm okay with that because we will have

449
00:41:01,359 --> 00:41:07,680
a crosswalk at the bottom at Evans to
take us across to the west side. So on

450
00:41:05,839 --> 00:41:13,200
the days where that sidewalk doesn't
work because of that clearing aspect of

451
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:19,839
it, they can go across the street and
get safely up on the west side as well.

452
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:26,880
Um, so those are the two I don't know if
are they considered amendments or uh so

453
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:30,480
uh I think this is sort proposed
sidewalk extending from or along the

454
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:35,200
east side of the curb of Church Street
and uh traffic calming white lines known

455
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:41,760
as urban shoulder uh instead of bike
lanes. I I I welcome any questions from

456
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:44,079
staff or from from council but council
can also ask staff what they think.

457
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,000
That's fine.
>> Thank you.

458
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,680
» You're welcome. So, I'm just going to
look to the clerk. Do you have

459
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:55,520
clarification of it? Are you able to
read it out just so white so we know

460
00:41:52,480 --> 00:42:00,880
what you have, please?
>> Yep. Thank you, your worship. Um would

461
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:05,440
be that report 2026-16
be received and further that council

462
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:09,520
direct staff to proceed with the church
street north road and bridge

463
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:14,160
improvements uh substantially designed
including sidewalk. No. Substantially

464
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:21,920
designed, including um as outlined in
report ENG 2026-16 as amended to include

465
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:25,599
curb sidewalks along the east side of
Church Street North between Evans Road

466
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:30,000
and Hussy Street from the current scope
of work. and further that council direct

467
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:33,359
staff to remove the proposed bike lanes
along Church Street North and replace

468
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:38,560
them with trafficcoming white lines
known as urban shoulder um from this

469
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:42,880
project scope and maintain the on street
parking north of Fletcher Crescent

470
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:46,480
subject to minor updates in keeping with
the recommendations of the

471
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:51,280
transportation needs study.
>> Okay, thank you councelor Rapen

472
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:54,480
captures. Okay, thank you. Any comments
or questions in regards to the

473
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:58,880
amendment?
So, the clerk has just read the

474
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:02,560
amendment. Oh, sorry, Councelor Bess.
>> Uh, thank you, worship. Um,

475
00:43:01,384 --> 00:43:07,040
[clears throat] I don't have any
questions per se to the the amendment. I

476
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:12,880
just want to highlight and I think um
Mr. Smile actually pointed to it uh in

477
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:16,560
his comments. I turn people to to page
four of 11. And I think this is really

478
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:21,280
important for us as a council. It's a
precedent setting moment because as we

479
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:27,280
move forward, I think we've struggled
townwide with sidewalks and with bike

480
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:31,359
lanes. We've seen a lot of different all
the different communities have have

481
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:35,200
resisted this. And I think this is an
important moment for us to to consider.

482
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,359
And I'll just read a little bit. Uh you
know, council, this was during the the

483
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:43,280
last session we had. We requested
clarification regarding the town's legal

484
00:43:41,359 --> 00:43:48,079
obligation to install sidewalks and
bicycle lanes as part of the Church

485
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:52,400
Street North reconstruction project. And
I thank staff for going to the town

486
00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:57,599
solicitor who advised that the official
plan in the multimmoal transportation

487
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:01,119
master plan is a council adopted policy
document that guides the planning and

488
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:06,960
design of transportation infrastructure
projects. Um while staff are expected to

489
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:12,480
implement council approved policies,
council retains the authority in its

490
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:18,400
legislative capacity to amend or deviate
from those policies through a subsequent

491
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:22,960
decision, which means that we not we're
not beholden to it. The town solicitor

492
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:26,319
further advised that there is no known
provincial requirement mandating the

493
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,079
installation of sidewalks or bicycle
lanes. In this context, decisions

494
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:33,599
regarding the provision of sidewalks,
bicycle lanes, and similar

495
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:38,079
transportation facilities are policy
decisions of council and in themselves

496
00:44:35,359 --> 00:44:41,520
do not create liability for the town.
Municipal liability generally arises

497
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:45,839
from the negligent implementation of
construction operation or maintenance of

498
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:49,119
infrastructure rather than from
council's policy decisions respecting

499
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:53,119
the hype, sorry, the type of
infrastructure be to be provided. As

500
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,480
such, while the proposed sidewalks and
bus lanes are consistent with the

501
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,599
official plan, the town's engineering
standards, and the multimodal

502
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:04,800
transportation master plan, we may
choose to amend the proposed design and

503
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:09,359
associated policy direction through this
its decision on this matter. So I mean I

504
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:13,200
I I understand the compromise that
councelor Rapen is making but I think

505
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:19,040
it's also important for all of us as a
learning as as a moment of learning to

506
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:23,359
understand that it is up to council for
us to make these decisions that there

507
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:29,119
would be there's no one else forcing us
to create bike lanes or there is no um

508
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:33,599
uh there is no polit provincial
requirement mandating these for us. So

509
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:38,000
I'm glad that staff pointed that out so
we can if this comes to us in other

510
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:41,560
iterations we'll be able to understand
that going forward.

511
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:53,760
» Thank you uh councelor Masters please.
>> Uh thank you worship and u I agree with

512
00:45:49,839 --> 00:45:57,839
councel bis um that um you know we have
policies and guidelines and some of them

513
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:03,440
are legal. you know, if there's a safety
issue involved and somebody gets hurt or

514
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:10,720
god forbid even lose their life, then we
could be at a very lialous position. Um,

515
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:15,200
I empathize with Mr. um, Snell's um,
issue he has there. I had the same issue

516
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:18,720
when I lived in Beaton in the very early
days. They wanted to put a a sidewalk

517
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:24,880
down the front of my house, which they
did. But any what um my what I'd like to

518
00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:31,280
say is that um I did go to staff
originally when this first came forward

519
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:35,920
and the the um the inference I got was
that uh this is part of the big plan for

520
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:39,520
the town. We're a developing town and
one of the issues was that the hospital

521
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:43,040
is going to be double in size very
shortly and the amount of traffic that

522
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:48,079
it's going to bring is going to spill
over into all the surrounding streets.

523
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:52,000
So that's one issue and of course
there's other development to happen at

524
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:57,520
the north end of the beaten I believe
and um so this is not for now. I think

525
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:01,520
this decision was made for things that
are going to be happening in the near

526
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:07,200
future. We're going from 44,000 people
to 89,000 people. I I'd wonder if one of

527
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:12,240
the members of staff could can confirm
that that's true what I'm saying that

528
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:17,359
you know it's it's in preparation for
the development that's to for the for

529
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:23,560
the volume of traffic that is to come.
Thank you.

530
00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:23,560
» Thank you.

531
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:30,640
» Um
one second off then answer the question

532
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:37,240
sir.
Who who's

533
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,240
» Oh, Ian, go ahead Ian. Thank you

534
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:44,720
» to your worship to council masters. Yes,
this is part of a big plan within the

535
00:47:42,319 --> 00:47:48,880
attachment. Uh the reports included the
multim modal transportation master plan

536
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:53,920
all the and the future DC projects which
shows church street south industrial

537
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:56,880
parkway uh which goes as far as 14th
line which is a another environmental

538
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:02,480
assessment we're working on that
includes multi-use trails to bring the

539
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:06,960
east part of all to the west part of all
uh so it is part of the the the larger

540
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:12,640
picture.
>> Thank you councelor Gabbert please.

541
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:16,160
» Thank you your worship. Um, yeah. I also
have some uh concerns about setting

542
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:20,720
precedents as we move forward uh
installing sidewalks and bike lanes as

543
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:25,280
we uh redo our streets, streetscapes.
And so I'm just wondering if councelor

544
00:48:22,319 --> 00:48:30,400
Rapins amendment will meet the needs of
the residents along Church North. So if

545
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:36,200
we approve the amendments,
uh if that's

546
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,200
going to do it justice.

547
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:44,720
Um thank you very much for the question.
So I guess I'll go back to Ian, please.

548
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:49,839
or general manager horn. Did you want me
to Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

549
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:55,440
» It's your worship to councelor Gabri. Um
I'm not entirely sure how to respond to

550
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:59,359
that. Um while it might meet some needs
uh again for the ultimate picture of the

551
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:05,640
master plan, official plan, complete
streets, it may not meet the ultimate

552
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:05,640
picture for the for those folks.

553
00:49:07,839 --> 00:49:13,520
» Okay. Are you fine with that, Councelor
Gabbert? That answer. Thank you very

554
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:17,920
much. So, councelor Rappen, you have put
an amendment on the floor and everyone's

555
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:21,240
heard it. So, you're going to move that.
Councelor Rappen.

556
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,520
» Sir, did you go ahead?
>> No, but please come up to the

557
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:30,760
microphone.
>> Thank you.

558
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:41,520
You're talking about a 600 meter area
that narrows into

559
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:47,520
a newly constructed traffic narrowing
zone. This is a bottleneck of all

560
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:55,559
bottlenecks. So
with a sidewalk already in place, the

561
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,559
crosswalk that's been suggested

562
00:49:56,559 --> 00:50:05,040
there, there is no need to take away
the east side of the street. I

563
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:10,720
understand what you're saying. Growth is
going to happen. It needs to happen.

564
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:14,960
But in a 600 meter stretch, which goes
into a bottleneck, there's already not

565
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:19,119
enough parking. And I believe in the uh
the the piece that you guys put out, it

566
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:26,800
said people can park on adjacent
streets. Well, where's that?

567
00:50:22,319 --> 00:50:31,680
I mean, it's it's ridiculous. And so
growth is going to happen. It has to and

568
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:37,440
it will. Change will happen. It needs to
and it will. But to your point, uh, Miss

569
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:43,680
Gabbert, will it meet the needs of the
people who can't get oxygen in, who

570
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:49,715
can't get their sons or daughters in to
help them with cancer treatments? Will

571
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:54,400
it meet the needs of people in
[sighs]

572
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:58,000
No, it won't. So, at Christmas time or
whatever it might be, when my family

573
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:03,200
wants to come over or many families want
to have their families over, we simply

574
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:08,559
can't park.
It's if it if it was an absolute

575
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:13,119
necessity, I wouldn't be standing here.
I wouldn't

576
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:17,760
and I wouldn't call into question what
you do and how you go about your

577
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:23,720
business because I'm not you and I'm
simply not entitled to to what you know.

578
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:35,359
But to say that to replace 600 meters
and take away property for the sake of a

579
00:51:32,319 --> 00:51:39,680
sidewalk in a bike lane, which I'm glad
you rode your bike, but I also saw you

580
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:46,160
drive by
is not enough to warrant the disruption.

581
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:52,079
Do we need new water lines? Yes. Do we
need new sewer lines? Yes. Does that

582
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:57,359
bridge need to be done? Unequivocally.
But I challenge any of you to sit here

583
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:01,680
and look me in my eyes and tell me that
ripping off the east side of the street,

584
00:51:59,359 --> 00:52:06,559
putting a sidewalk in is going to make
the difference that you're suggesting it

585
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:10,640
needs. It's not.
The sidewalk on the west side is big

586
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:15,960
enough.
The crosswalk at the top works just

587
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,960
fine.

588
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:24,240
I'm sorry. I don't buy it. Nor does
anybody on Church Street North. And

589
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:29,280
furthermore, again, the last time we
were here, it was said that when

590
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:35,040
decisions and information came out about
this,

591
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:40,880
that it would be emailed out.
Well, it wasn't.

592
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:46,400
My neighbor Gary was told that someone
would come and talk to him. Didn't

593
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:51,599
happen.
So, you'll forgive me

594
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:57,599
for being
Kurt,

595
00:52:54,079 --> 00:53:03,440
but we're not talking about
a little thing here.

596
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:08,559
We're talking about massive unnecessary
disruption

597
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:12,880
that does not meet our needs
and that

598
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:17,280
needs to be discussed. And if there is
no legal precedent to say that we need

599
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:22,480
to rip up that side of the street, take
it away, then why are you doing it?

600
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:28,920
Why?
That sidewalk on the west side handles

601
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:28,920
more than enough traffic.

602
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:38,480
Parking for hospital employees should be
a an issue. Why do why do they have to

603
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:43,680
park at the donor diamond? Hopefully
that gets remedied.

604
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:49,000
» Okay. But there are bigger issues here.
>> Thank you, sir. I'm going to go to the

605
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,000
deputy clerk, please.

606
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:55,640
Thank you, Council Harrison McIntyre.
Thank you, director Clerk.

607
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:07,839
» Thank you, Worship. Um,
I was I I hear what's being said and and

608
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:12,880
um the deputent made a point which is um
I just wanted to put a suggestion

609
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:16,720
forward. When you go north on Church
Street, it does narrow and there is no

610
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,440
sidewalk on the east side of the street.
So there's only sidewalk on the west

611
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:24,800
side. So we would be putting in a
sidewalk that connected to Victoria

612
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:30,880
Street. Yes. But then um up at the top
of Church, you I just wonder if it makes

613
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:34,559
sense to um perhaps not install a
sidewalk at all on the east side of the

614
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:40,319
road, but stick with doing bike lanes
because as we know um it's we're doing

615
00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:43,440
this for future planning connecting to
other bike lanes that are going to be

616
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:47,119
done in other parts of the municipality.
So, this is just like right now it looks

617
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:51,839
like it's in the middle of nowhere, but
eventually it will be hopefully a

618
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:57,520
connected trail uh trail connected
network. Um, so just I mean I'm not

619
00:54:55,359 --> 00:55:01,839
trying to there's already deputation.
There's already amendment on the floor

620
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:06,400
that we need to vote on. However, I just
thought I would put that out as part of

621
00:55:03,839 --> 00:55:10,559
the discussion. Um,
because as a deputent said, there is no

622
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:15,680
sidewalk north of on Highway 9 on
Highway 9, excuse me. North

623
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:19,440
Sorry.
>> No, thank you for that. And um I'm sure

624
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:25,359
you can do a friendly amendment. Am I Is
that allowed, Madame Clerk?

625
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:30,240
» Thank you, your worship. If um councelor
Rappen is open to the friendly amendment

626
00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:34,480
or he could ask to vote on his
amendment.

627
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:38,000
» I believe the amendment would be keeping
the bike lanes and my answer is no. I

628
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,480
will not accept that. That would be a
hostile amendment.

629
00:55:41,839 --> 00:55:48,799
» Okay. Councelor Cox. Sorry, councelor. I
had to give you the opportunity to

630
00:55:45,839 --> 00:55:53,359
respond.
>> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I just

631
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:57,760
wanted to make sure I heard it clear.
So, we're not putting in the bike lanes,

632
00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:02,079
but we are putting in the white line
lines. We have that similar on Patterson

633
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:06,880
Street. We're actually waiting for um a
connector before we turn those into bike

634
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:10,960
lanes. um which will probably take uh
still a number of years which would

635
00:56:08,319 --> 00:56:16,319
probably still be uh the same for this
also which means that you can still park

636
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:21,520
on the street. When it comes to the
sidewalk, um since this is on committee,

637
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:27,920
if I could potentially ask staff to come
back with how that's going to affect the

638
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:32,000
driveway parking now that um the
amendment to this recommendation is

639
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:37,920
going to have the sidewalks curbside and
we can see how that affects the uh on

640
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:42,160
driveway parking. That would be great um
at our next meeting. But I am supportive

641
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:46,880
of also painting the white lines. It is
a good traffic calming measure and if

642
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:51,839
there's still able to be on street
parking then I think that's good for the

643
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:55,599
residents also.
>> Thank you for that. So that was

644
00:56:53,920 --> 00:57:00,960
direction for the next meeting to come
back if that information can be

645
00:56:57,359 --> 00:57:04,720
provided. Correct. Okay. Okay. Councelor
Rappen, you have moved your motion.

646
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:12,359
Thank you. Is there a second for
councelor Rapin's motion? Councelor Cox.

647
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:12,359
Everyone's heard it. All those in favor

648
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:20,440
one, two, three, four. Does not carry.
So I'll read the original motion.

649
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:26,960
Church Street North Road and Bridge
improvements update to item C-2.

650
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:31,040
Council,
the recommendations that report number

651
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:34,880
ENG2026-16
be received and further council direct

652
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:38,480
staff to proceed with the street church
street north road and bridge

653
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,599
improvements substantially as designed
including sidewalk and bike lane

654
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:45,640
installation as outlined in report
number 2026-16.

655
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:55,280
Um, councelor Bis, did you want to move
it or you want to speak to it?

656
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:59,599
» Okay. Um, thank you, worship. I don't I
I didn't I don't think that uh Council

657
00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:04,319
Rapins plan went far enough, and I think
that if we had included what Councelor

658
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:09,040
Harrison McIntyre in terms of getting
rid of the the sidewalk, I think it may

659
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:13,920
have passed, but um certainly I won't
support the original motion, and I think

660
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:19,520
um Council Rapid's motion didn't quite
go far enough. So, um I'm it's too bad

661
00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:25,240
that they left because I think there's
more to this, more legs to this than

662
00:58:21,359 --> 00:58:25,240
than what we're Brad,

663
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,040
» before I get there though, um,

664
00:58:30,319 --> 00:58:37,040
» okay, Deputy Mayor, go ahead.
>> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I've

665
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:42,799
heard a few members of council speak
about precedent. This precedent has been

666
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:47,520
set through the municipality. We have um
I always say and uh maybe it's not a

667
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:51,280
super popular thing, people love
sidewalks until they're in front of

668
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:55,280
their house and then they absolutely
I've been requested same as other

669
00:58:53,359 --> 00:59:01,200
council members for sidewalks in certain
areas of town consistently since I've

670
00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:05,119
been on council since 2018.
Um but also when the sidewalks are

671
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:08,640
happening in front of their house,
nobody likes them. And it's generally

672
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,440
because they're losing parking. I get
it. I only have a three-car parking lot.

673
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:16,319
If I had a sidewalk in front of my
house, it would go down to two and and

674
00:59:13,359 --> 00:59:22,160
that affects how how I operate my my
family and my property. However, we've

675
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:28,160
done road reconstruction in Beaton and
Tottenham and we've we've done the

676
00:59:24,799 --> 00:59:31,920
sidewalks. The sidewalks are where I get
sometimes feeling like they're not

677
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:36,559
necessary today, but when you're
reconstructing a road, you're doing it

678
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:40,640
for the next 40 to 50 years of its life.
So what we know today is not going to be

679
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:45,520
the alliston in 10 years, 20 years, 30
years, 40 years. And we do I mean we're

680
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:51,599
we're here for the to listen to the
community, but we we also have to build

681
00:59:48,559 --> 00:59:57,440
safe streets and sidewalks are a part of
that. Um

682
00:59:54,319 --> 01:00:03,359
it allows I met with some residents on
Church Street. Um, and we met at their

683
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:09,280
house and we sat outside and um, it was
about, I believe, 3:00 in the afternoon

684
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:13,839
and it was very easy to explain to to
the residents why this road is

685
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:17,359
considered a minor collector. It was
busy there. There was bikes on the

686
01:00:15,839 --> 01:00:20,960
sidewalk. There was people walking on
the sidewalk. There was tons of cars

687
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:26,960
going by. I think I stopped counting
when I got to

688
01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:34,960
I think it was 40 or 50 cars going by. I
stopped counting. So, it is a very very

689
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:38,559
busy very busy street and um side like I
said sidewalks are not popular when

690
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:43,920
they're in front of people's roads. I
know in beaten um they did what

691
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:49,520
councelor Rapen suggested which was to
move the sidewalk abuing basically the

692
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:56,000
curb of the road um which which allowed
some more homeowners to have that third

693
01:00:52,960 --> 01:01:01,920
or fourth space in in their driveway.
Um, so I I I do appreciate the the

694
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:09,200
amendments that councelor RPen put on
and I and I do support those. Thank you,

695
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:14,319
» Councelor Rappen, please.
>> Thank you. I'm I'm lost as to where we

696
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:19,760
are in this. Uh, I'll just speak for a
second. And, uh, number one, uh, the

697
01:01:17,359 --> 01:01:23,839
south side of Church Street, they have
curbside. That's what it is there for

698
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:30,640
crying out loud. Now, I just want to
take it north and put a sidewalk there.

699
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:34,400
We the bike lanes in my assessment and
my walking and talking to the citizens,

700
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:38,160
the residents on that street, they're
concerned about the the aspect of

701
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:41,839
parking for those times that they need
lots of parking, whether it's daycare

702
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:46,559
drop off at 8 in the morning or
something like that. That's why I

703
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:50,960
suggested the calming uh white lines
because when those cars aren't parked

704
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:54,720
and dropping off a kid or picking up a
kid at a daycare, the bikes will go in

705
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:59,520
there. Cars don't purposely drive in
those white lanes. They don't like

706
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:03,599
anyone who's driven on on uh Elbert. How
many have driven in the white lane

707
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:08,000
there? Probably none of us. So, they're
they're effective. Are they a bike lane?

708
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:12,559
No. I'm dis I'm I'm sorry that they're
not an official bike lane. I do

709
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:18,160
recognize the fact that what we do now
and I brought this up on many other

710
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:23,040
occasions in council with other things.
We're not planning for me and you. I'm

711
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:28,000
planning 30 years from now. I'm planning
10 years from now. I'm planning 40 years

712
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:31,359
from now. It's I'm So some things are
going to bite a few of us here and

713
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:35,839
there, but in the grand scheme of
things, it's the the goal is the

714
01:02:33,839 --> 01:02:40,960
community. The goal My goal is the
community.

715
01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:45,040
And I'm I'm I'm shocked that I wasn't
able to relay that to to my c to to

716
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:48,799
council. I'm really disappointed that I
I I didn't do my job and get this

717
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:54,720
across. And I and I apologize to the
residents for that. Um I thought I had a

718
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:58,480
compromise of which some people are the
idea is that everyone's a little bit

719
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:01,920
upset with me as opposed to some people
really happy and some people really

720
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:07,520
upset. I'd much rather you all be a
little upset at me or that kind of

721
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:15,520
scale. I'll take that. But with with
whatever comes out of this, uh, I'm I'm

722
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:19,599
I'm afraid that maybe we've we've sort
of let down the residence a little bit

723
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:24,000
on this one. I I think the compromise I
had was a good one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry

724
01:03:21,359 --> 01:03:27,760
that I didn't I wasn't able to uh to
change the effects of anyone else on

725
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:30,880
that. So,
>> thank you for those comments. Councelor

726
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:35,280
Gabbert, please.
>> Thank you, your worship. I think my um

727
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:38,240
word precedent was taken out of context
because I actually meant that going

728
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:41,760
forward we're going to have to do this
in a lot more neighborhoods and it's

729
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:46,079
going to be a pain point coming up again
and again. And if we do this in this

730
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:50,559
instance, it might still not meet the
needs of the residents on Church North.

731
01:03:48,319 --> 01:03:55,760
So are we setting a dangerous precedent
by doing a peace meal of this project?

732
01:03:53,680 --> 01:04:00,480
Um, so I thought that councelor Cox had
a really good suggestion to hear back

733
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:08,480
from engineering um with what the
lowered sidewalk might do in terms of uh

734
01:04:03,839 --> 01:04:13,440
future clearing and precedent setting.
>> Okay. Thank you. So is there any other

735
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:17,839
comments from members of council? So I
think the request is to refer this back

736
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:22,799
to staff for more information that's
been discussed around the table.

737
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:25,680
Everybody okay with that? Okay. So then,
uh, Councelor Gabrick, you'll move it.

738
01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:31,000
Councelor Cox, you'll second it. All
those in favor? That carries. Thank you,

739
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,000
councel.

740
01:04:31,839 --> 01:04:38,119
Okay, we're moving on to Give me a
second here, please.

741
01:04:39,839 --> 01:04:45,440
CW5-3
beaten community center redevelopment

742
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:51,400
project refinements and design
direction. Did you uh you pulled that,

743
01:04:47,359 --> 01:04:51,400
councelor Masters?

744
01:04:52,799 --> 01:05:01,119
Thank you, worship. Am I on?
>> Thank you, worship. Um, I just have a

745
01:04:58,799 --> 01:05:05,119
comment really. Um,
you know, the residents of Beaten,

746
01:05:02,799 --> 01:05:10,880
including myself, prior to moving uh
from the town six years ago after 43

747
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:15,200
years. Um, I've been highly focused on
building a new community rec center

748
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:18,640
facility for many years now. However, we
should recognize that our town

749
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:24,160
population has changed drastically over
the last 20 years. Everything has

750
01:05:20,799 --> 01:05:29,359
changed moving closer to one TNT
community. Having said this, even though

751
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:34,079
this facility is being built and beaten,
we should ensure it will support and be

752
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:40,640
able to be used by anyone in the town of
New Dumps. That's my comment. Thank you.

753
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:46,319
» Thank you for that. Any other comments
or questions in regards

754
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:50,400
story? Mr. Swirl, did you want to come
up please?

755
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:53,400
If you've got this public meeting,
please

756
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:11,920
first of all, thank you very much for
allowing me to address the beaten

757
01:06:09,345 --> 01:06:16,720
[sighs and gasps] uh issue.
Um, for those who don't know me, I'm the

758
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:22,480
chair of the committee of adjustment and
have been on the committee of adjustment

759
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:29,920
here in town for the past 14 years. But
I'm not here to talk about that. I'm

760
01:06:24,799 --> 01:06:35,280
here to uh actually give you an outline
of what's happening with minor hockey

761
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:41,599
across Canada right now.
And um it's my understanding um that

762
01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:47,760
you're about to vote on a proposed new
beaten arena. I myself played hockey

763
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:52,480
extensively as a youngster. Uh my two
boys were on rep teams and Bruce can

764
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:59,760
attest to that because he put them in
the penalty box many times. Um my

765
01:06:55,839 --> 01:07:07,920
grandsons are also playing Triple A. Um
and just to relieve any preconceived

766
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:15,839
notions that uh I'm not on board with
the idea of a new rank. I am, but there

767
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:20,079
is some hurdles that need to be crossed.
Um I can pick paint you a picture of the

768
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:26,400
current status of minor hockey
throughout Ontario. Figure skating, ice

769
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:30,960
rentals, etc. that other communities are
and have experienced over the past

770
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:36,720
number of years. They are all singing
from the same hymbook. And we'll use New

771
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:41,839
Market as an example because I was
president of New Market of Minor Hockey

772
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:48,559
back in the day. Um, and I was also on
the committee of adjustment thanks to

773
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:54,559
Pam when I moved to to uh Allison. She
grabbed me off the street and got me

774
01:07:50,720 --> 01:08:01,680
involved here. Um, but their ice rinks
are the biggest expenditure of the town.

775
01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:07,520
Um, all the rinks in Ontario sit idle
from midnight till uh till 4:00 in the

776
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:13,280
afternoon when the bus drops off to kids
from school. The upkeep of any arena is

777
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:20,880
a 24-hour endeavor and an exorbitant
cost to each and every town. The Ray

778
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:26,640
Twin Complex was a state-of-the-art in
its day.

779
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:34,480
um at double ice pad last winter was
shut down Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday all

780
01:08:30,159 --> 01:08:40,719
winter long because the registration for
hockey has dropped. When I was running

781
01:08:38,159 --> 01:08:49,199
New Market Minor hockey, we had eight uh
2,800 kids. Today, they have 800 of

782
01:08:45,199 --> 01:08:55,279
which only 200 play house lake. the
other four the other 600 or 400 I think

783
01:08:52,159 --> 01:09:00,960
it is four or five that that play rep
hockey and now with the advent of the

784
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:08,960
OMA
allowing kids from other centers to go

785
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:16,560
it even sets aside the number of kids
that can play. So

786
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:18,719
what's really happened is however you
know I do believe

787
01:09:18,642 --> 01:09:25,520
» [clears throat]
>> um that you have arrived at a 44 to 46

788
01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:30,319
million expenditure for the beaten rink
alone and that's what at least was

789
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:34,400
published.
Um, I don't think I have to mention that

790
01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:38,480
this is an election year, but your
timing is a way off the mark and trying

791
01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:44,880
to sell this expenditure
140 days prior to the election with an

792
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:50,000
estimated $500 bump to everyone's taxes
in new tech just to cover part of the

793
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:56,000
project.
Uh my question is have you ever explored

794
01:09:52,319 --> 01:10:01,360
the muchneeded community center for host
activities in beaten where it is

795
01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:08,000
conducive to each householder and looked
on as money well spent and better better

796
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:11,600
sell to the to all of new tech. That
would be an excellent start and well

797
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:16,560
overdue.
Lastly, in addition, prior to building a

798
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:20,159
new rink,
the only [clears throat] way you can

799
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:24,800
build it is if it's justified. And I
assume you've all done your homework and

800
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:30,080
ice time is at a premium in new tech
right now.

801
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:36,719
What we did in New Market was we asked
each individual group that uses ice over

802
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:42,960
the winter and ball hockey in the summer
to give us the hour that they would

803
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:46,719
spend. So when you get that information,
then you can say, "Okay, we need a new

804
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:50,239
rink or we don't need a new rink."
Obviously, I hope you've done your

805
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:59,199
homework and you're asking for a new
rank for $450 million or four45 million.

806
01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:03,920
Um, if you do your homework, it's an
easier sell. Soon as that came out in

807
01:11:01,679 --> 01:11:11,440
the paper the other day, it's just gone
rampant through town. And you guys don't

808
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:16,480
hear it, but I hear it. Um and getting
comments from each association

809
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:20,400
uh for the coming year is what you
really need. And you certainly should

810
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:28,080
look at [clears throat]
the option of putting a single pad

811
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:34,719
attached to the current double pad here
in town and that's your complex. Um the

812
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:39,600
infrastructure is there, the parking
that uh I'm sure you're going to have to

813
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:48,560
add, but the lights are there,
everything is there to get in and out.

814
01:11:41,679 --> 01:11:53,760
Um and if you take a single pad and put
it in along the other two, it's going to

815
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:59,679
be so much less expensive and a lot
easier to sell to the public here in

816
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:02,480
town. When they see that number of 450,
my phone rang off the hooks. They go,

817
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:08,320
"What the hell are they doing over
there?" Um, and whether that's erroneous

818
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:12,960
or not, I'm not sure, but go ahead with
go ahead with the community center in in

819
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:16,800
uh um Beaton where [clears throat]
everybody can use it. You know, they

820
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:21,360
look at the older people look at the the
ice rink and they go, "Well, we don't

821
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:25,679
use it, you know, but our kids do. We
have to provide that. I understand that.

822
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:30,719
I get that." But I think what you really
got to do is take this to the next

823
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:36,400
level. sit down and make sure you've
exhausted every avenue of where you can

824
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:41,440
put the new rink besides beating. We we
know you've done your homework with the

825
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:46,320
beaten thing, but make sure that you
know are we going to save money by

826
01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:55,440
putting in a single pad. Um you still
got two pads there. Um but coming down

827
01:12:51,040 --> 01:13:01,120
spending $45 million, it's not now. It's
what Mr. Raffin said. Uh, councelor

828
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:07,280
Rappen said it's five years from now,
10, 15, 20 years, you're going to have

829
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:11,840
the Ray 20 complexes across Canada,
which is happening right now, sitting

830
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:16,480
empty. And you still have to keep them
going. You still have to to, you know,

831
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:20,560
if they open them up for a day or two
days, they still got to have ice in

832
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:26,480
them. They still got the generators
going and so on and so forth. I just ask

833
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:34,640
on behalf of everybody else that if you
would just make sure all avenues are are

834
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:39,600
uh looked at and uh good luck.
>> Thank you very much, sir.

835
01:13:37,679 --> 01:13:47,440
Any other comments from members of the
public? Okay, I'm not seeing any. Um

836
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:51,920
any comments, questions for members of
council?

837
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:56,800
Councelor Cox.
Thank you, Mayor Narcross. Uh, thank you

838
01:13:54,640 --> 01:14:03,840
staff for this report and thank you for
your deputation regarding the beaten

839
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:13,280
facility. We are at 99% um capacity for
prime time ICE. Um, I understand that

840
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:18,080
the price tag on this seems high. Um,
I can tell you that this council and

841
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:22,880
myself are going to exhaust every option
for grant funding, sponsorship,

842
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:29,760
everything that was added into the
motion before this came to council. Um,

843
01:14:27,199 --> 01:14:33,760
also absent from the report was I know
that the timeline was included as to

844
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:40,400
project milestones.
Um, this is not going to be a tax hit

845
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:44,239
for the 2027 budget. um that's not how
we do the funding for these projects.

846
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:50,480
So, we do have time to get that
sponsorship um and that uh fundraising

847
01:14:48,239 --> 01:14:54,000
and grant component. A number of
counselors

848
01:14:52,159 --> 01:14:57,840
uh the mayor, deputy mayor, and staff
are going to be attending the AMO

849
01:14:55,440 --> 01:15:05,600
conference in the next couple weeks. We
have the opportunity to uh get in front

850
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:09,040
of ministers for the province to um uh
get this project in front of them for

851
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:14,960
additional funding.
Uh the federal government just released

852
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:20,239
uh grant opportunities for arenas and
recreation components totaling I believe

853
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:25,120
it was around a billion dollars.
Um

854
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:30,640
on top of that um I would like to ask
staff it's the facility design to pursue

855
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:35,360
a high level of Rick Hansen Foundation
accessibility certification

856
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:39,280
just is phenomenal. That sounds great.
Just a few things missing in the report

857
01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:44,000
for that. if we can get that to come
back to the next meeting, how that could

858
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:48,800
uh potentially
um affect the budget because I didn't

859
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:55,199
see uh any budget implica implications
included in that and also the um design

860
01:15:52,000 --> 01:16:00,800
footprint if we can get that back too.
Um

861
01:15:57,199 --> 01:16:08,800
and if we can also look into I know that
staff is once again asking for an NHL

862
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:15,840
size ice service. um if we can look into
potential sizing similar to the TCFC

863
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:20,640
which I believe is um kind of an in
between the beaten facility currently

864
01:16:18,719 --> 01:16:26,880
and what we have at the NTRC which is
NHL size ice. I would appreciate uh that

865
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:31,679
coming back to look for potential cost
savings in that too at the next meeting

866
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:34,400
please.
>> Thank you.

867
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:37,920
» And sorry I'm I forgot one thing. Go
ahead.

868
01:16:34,719 --> 01:16:44,480
» If we can continue to work with um our
ball hockey user group um and get any of

869
01:16:41,679 --> 01:16:48,960
their questions answered that uh they've
presented to council in the last couple

870
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:52,320
emails uh in the next couple weeks
before we come back to council. Sorry, I

871
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:55,600
guess it's like a month, the next month
before we come back to council. If we

872
01:16:53,600 --> 01:17:00,560
can continue to have staff work with our
ball hockey user group too, please.

873
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:04,000
» Okay. Just for clarity, councelor Cox,
did you not want to make a decision on

874
01:17:02,239 --> 01:17:08,480
this tonight till that information comes
back?

875
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:11,840
» Um, no. We can we can still make a
decision on this, I think, and that can

876
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:16,000
come back. We still it's not passing
completely through. It's only committee.

877
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:19,520
So, we have that ability at uh at
council, but if we have that additional

878
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,760
information while we pass this
recommendation, that would be great.

879
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:26,880
Please.
>> No, thank you. We just want to ask for

880
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:34,400
clarification. Councelor Masters.
Thank you, worship. Um, I think, um, you

881
01:17:30,719 --> 01:17:40,320
know, um, as councelor Cox mentioned,
you know, there's some ice choices out

882
01:17:36,239 --> 01:17:44,880
there. And, um, um, there's basically
three ice choices. We have Olympic size,

883
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:51,199
we have our regular HA size, and we have
our beaten size. And, um, I think that

884
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:55,199
question was brought forward before. Um
but I noticed that um Carlo, president

885
01:17:53,360 --> 01:18:01,520
of the ball hockey league is in in in
the audience right now. Um there was a

886
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:07,360
discussion um regarding the size of the
ice um and how it would be adaptable for

887
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:11,280
the ball hockey league and I think at
that time it was mentioned that um the

888
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:16,480
ball hockey league doesn't need the
whole ice there especially in practice

889
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:21,679
they can use part partial or half or a
quarter. I'm not sure the exact wording

890
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:29,679
at the time. And um if that's the case,
when the ice is taken out, um can we uh

891
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:34,080
is there a a sectioning off um equipment
that can be used to divvy up the ice

892
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:41,040
according to how the bull hockey league
would like to uh utilize it at that

893
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:44,640
time. And um and I I wonder if that if
you have an answer to that or if that

894
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:51,040
has been discussed with the bull hockey
league and that would dictate what ice

895
01:18:47,679 --> 01:18:56,560
we can go with uh you know so uh which
would be so if we decide to go with the

896
01:18:53,120 --> 01:19:02,320
NHL size ice then perhaps that would
work you know uh well for the ball

897
01:18:59,199 --> 01:19:09,040
hockey league if we have the proper
dividers to be you be in place. That's

898
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:09,040
my question.

899
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:18,880
Okay. So, your question I I don't think
they finalized that design yet, but I'll

900
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:22,480
go to uh Director Mobs, please.
>> Through your worship to um councelor

901
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:26,239
Masters, I do have Philip O Sullivan,
the prime architect with working on the

902
01:19:24,480 --> 01:19:30,719
project from Perkins Wall. So, I'll if
it's okay with you, Mr. Mayor, I'll pass

903
01:19:28,239 --> 01:19:34,880
it over to him to answer this question.
Um if council wishes, we can also speak

904
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:38,640
to the cost for Rick Hansen
certification as well.

905
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:41,520
Thank you.
>> Go ahead, sir.

906
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:46,000
» Uh through you, Mr. Mayor to council
masters. Um yes, the answer short answer

907
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:50,400
is yes. Um there can be any number of
creative design solutions created to

908
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:56,000
utilize the ice, let's say an NHL size
pad um in ways that could accommodate uh

909
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:58,800
ball hockey. Uh that's again would take
a great deal of conversation with the

910
01:19:57,440 --> 01:20:01,440
ball hockey league, which we're happy to
do. We have done in the past already and

911
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:05,199
we're happy to continue that
conversation. Um it remains to be seen

912
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:09,199
whether or not that'll be satisfactory
to to the ball hockey league. That's

913
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:13,199
that's the first thing. Um I will say
just as a a point of note that um to

914
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:18,640
your comment about three types of ice
which was quite apt. Um we traditionally

915
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:23,199
in my career in the last kind of 25
years have done none other than NHL size

916
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:27,520
ice just as a record in terms of
community standard across Ontario and

917
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:31,199
even the world if you will. Um and
that's where I'll leave it on that. to

918
01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:35,440
follow with the Rick Hansen. Um I have
been part of or led the design team that

919
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:40,400
has had the great success of of having
Rick Hansen design certification. Um and

920
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:44,719
that's a gold they give it gold stars.
Um we have in fact received three as far

921
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:48,719
as I recall. Um that process is done in
a two-stage process. It's done both in

922
01:20:46,719 --> 01:20:52,719
the design phase which is means all the
way up to the end of drawings prior to

923
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:55,840
bid. That's when you get your your kind
of first design. They go through it in a

924
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:58,880
couple of iterations and ask questions
about that and that's incorporated into

925
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:02,960
the design process. That's not that
there's no cost to you save and accept

926
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:06,480
um the registration which is relatively
minor compared to the the price tag of

927
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:10,159
the building as a whole. Um and secondly
the second part of the certification is

928
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:13,920
during what they call occupancy
preoccupancy you do a review and you

929
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:17,520
have uh the reviewer who is assigned by
Rick Hansen they come to the building

930
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:20,800
and they look at it before you occupy to
make sure there is no kind of

931
01:21:18,480 --> 01:21:24,560
outstanding um deficiencies I'll call it
in terms of their review from the design

932
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:28,080
side and again that is also it's it's
kind of a predium rate relative to how

933
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:31,679
many times they've got to come back. So
overall in general without having

934
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:36,320
specific project sizes as you say we
haven't finished the design but the cost

935
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:39,040
is relatively minor or I would say minor
compared to things like lead

936
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:42,000
certification other kind of
certifications that are out there

937
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:45,280
relative to building well fit well that
kind of thing.

938
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:49,360
» Okay thank you councelor Biss.
>> Uh thank you worship. I think this is a

939
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:54,080
great discussion tonight. You know we're
looking at a $46 million project. We

940
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:58,000
need to get this right. It's a lot of
money. So, we have to make sure that we

941
01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:02,400
take all the input from our friends in
ball hockey, our friends at TNT. Um, you

942
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:07,520
know, we've got to figure out what we
can do in order to reduce the costs, not

943
01:22:05,199 --> 01:22:11,280
just the capital cost, but also the
operating costs. Let's make sure that we

944
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:14,719
keep that in mind. How much is that how
much that's going to cost the taxpayer

945
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:18,480
every year? And so, I think this is
great discussion. And I think um I think

946
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:21,760
it's good that we're taking this slowly,
that we're looking at all the options

947
01:22:20,159 --> 01:22:26,320
and like I like we've talked about
tonight, what is the most appropriate

948
01:22:23,679 --> 01:22:31,600
size of the ice in order for us to uh
accommodate today's users and

949
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:36,480
potentially tomorrow's users. I'm a big
believer that uh there's only right now

950
01:22:34,239 --> 01:22:40,320
we live in the moment. The future can't
be determined. The past is the past. So

951
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:44,239
let's live in the moment and let's
figure out exactly what we need today.

952
01:22:42,480 --> 01:22:49,040
Um but what we definitely need is to
make sure that we um do this in the most

953
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:52,960
cost-effective manner possible. So I
look forward to having more update uh

954
01:22:51,199 --> 01:22:57,120
another update come the council meeting
next month and um any work that can be

955
01:22:55,440 --> 01:23:01,520
done in order to accommodate and work
with our user groups so that we can

956
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:04,560
ensure that they use it to keep our
operating costs down because at the end

957
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:08,960
of the day we've got to make sure that
those user groups that pay the bills are

958
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:13,760
still there to pay the bills when we
build this $46 million facility. So, um,

959
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:17,360
your worship, I would just ask staff
just keep be cognizant of that fact that

960
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:21,040
make sure the user groups are all
consulted that they that we that they

961
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:25,760
understand the cost that we're working
on here and that we can continue to

962
01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:31,600
figure a way to reduce the cost of this
facility. And to councelor Cox's uh uh

963
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:34,639
to what she was saying, let's make sure
we do our very best in order to get

964
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:37,679
grants from the other levels of
government in order to make this

965
01:23:35,679 --> 01:23:42,480
affordable despite the fact that we are
going to grow hugely in this this this

966
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:46,560
municipality. So we'll have a larger tax
base. Nevertheless, we need to

967
01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:51,360
understand that this is these these
prices and these costs are going to be

968
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:55,920
impacting today's residents and not
tomorrow's.

969
01:23:53,440 --> 01:24:02,080
» Thank you for those comments. So, um,
I've had nobody offer to refer this till

970
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:06,800
the additional information is received.
And the recommendation is that council

971
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:11,440
confirm a North American ice surface
measuring approximately 200 feet by 85

972
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:18,239
feet as the functional program for the
beaten community center redevelopment

973
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:22,320
project and its report number RFC2026-23
be received and for the council direct

974
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:26,159
staff and the project consultant to
incorporate universal accessibility

975
01:24:24,159 --> 01:24:32,560
princip principles into the facility
design and pursue a high level of Rick

976
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:36,800
Hansen Foundation RHFAC. including
design considerations to support sledge

977
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:40,239
hockey program and participation. And
further, council direct staff to review

978
01:24:38,239 --> 01:24:44,560
and refine project contingency and soft
cost allowances through detailed design

979
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:49,520
and report back to council with updated
estimates at a project at appropriate

980
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:54,080
project milestones. So, councelor Cox,
did you want to move that? Okay. Is

981
01:24:51,199 --> 01:24:59,400
there somebody like to second that? Um,
councelor Rappen. All those in favor?

982
01:24:59,679 --> 01:25:06,239
It's carried. Thank you. Okay. So, we
look forward to the future report. So,

983
01:25:04,159 --> 01:25:11,880
thank you very much. And Director Mobs
that we're clear. Yeah, we're fine.

984
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:11,880
Okay, great. Thank you so much.

985
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:26,080
Okay, we have no public notices
and we're moving on to a German.

986
01:25:24,239 --> 01:25:29,199
Great job tonight, Madam Clerk. Thank
you.

987
01:25:27,440 --> 01:25:32,239
So, we have a recommendation that the
and your team recommendation that the

988
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:37,440
committee of the whole meeting of July
27, 2026 adjourn at 7:22 p.m. Councelor

989
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:41,440
Bish, you'll move that. Councelor
Masters, you'll second that. Thank you.

990
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:45,719
Thank you to all the residents that came
out tonight. Thank you to staff.