[3:47] Thank you very much. Welcome to the
council meeting Monday, July 27th, 2026.
[3:53] Could everybody please rise for the
singing of O Canada and could you please
[3:56] remain standing for a moment of silent
contemplation? Thank you.
[5:41] Thank you. Please be seated.
[5:50] At the town of Nuda comes, we
acknowledge that we're on the treaty
[5:53] lands and traditional territory of the
Nishanabi peoples, specifically the
[5:58] Ojiu, Chipawa, Odawa, and Pawatami
peoples, collectively known as the Three
[6:03] Fires Confederacy. This land is now home
to many diverse First Nations, Inuit,
[6:08] and Miti peoples.
New Dumps is covered by the Lake Simco
[6:11] Navasaga Treaty number 18 signed on
October 17th, 1818 with the Chipoa
[6:17] Nation. We acknowledge that we're all
treaty people and accept our
[6:20] responsibility to honor all our
relations and move forward in the spirit
[6:23] of reconciliation and respect. Thank
you. So, I'm going to go to awards and
[6:28] recognitions, please. Councelor Bis.
>> Uh, thank you, worship. Um, once again,
[6:34] I'd like to congratulate uh our senior
of the year, Donna Jeb. She's in the
[6:40] audience again tonight uh for being
awarded the Adelaide Hunter Hoodless
[6:44] Canadian Woman of the Year for her
outstanding leadership, inspiration to
[6:48] others, and support to the community
both locally, nationally, and
[6:53] internationally. Congratulations, Donna.
Well done again.
[7:03] No, thank you very much. And I just like
to acknowledge um everybody knows, but
[7:07] Donna was a counselor and the former
deputy mayor of the town of New
[7:10] Thompson, too. So, thank you for all
those years of dedication. Donna, and it
[7:15] was actually kind of nice, Donna, Rick
Mill, myself, and Mark Bis from the
[7:19] former council actually got to see each
other tonight. Did you want to say why?
[7:27] » Uh, thank you, worship. Um, so for the
people at home, um, before council met,
[7:32] uh, met this evening, um, we had the
honor of doing a dedication for the JJ
[7:37] Paul Whiteside Executive Boardroom. We
invited, uh, Mr. Paul Whiteside's family
[7:42] to come, friends, neighbors, former
counselors, the mayors, etc. and and we
[7:48] celebrated uh a life well-lived, a man
who served our community uh faithfully
[7:54] for many many years and a person and a
family that um that we can never forget
[7:59] and it's his name has been immortalized
on his executive boardroom. So, thank
[8:03] you worship for helping us to to put
that together.
[8:06] » Oh, thank you councelor Bis. Councelor
Masters, please.
[8:11] » Thank you worship. We have a couple
announcements. Um the first announcement
[8:15] is I'd just like to say I've just come
back from New Brunswick where um I was
[8:20] with my um my grandson who's playing in
the Canadian National Ball Hockey
[8:26] Championships and uh with TNT which is
one of the Canada's number one of North
[8:33] America's largest groups in ball hockey
and uh I don't have all the final
[8:38] numbers with me but um our teams did
exceedingly well I I think winning gold,
[8:44] silver, bronze and uh at all levels and
um just very proud of uh what TNT um put
[8:51] forward uh in these championships.
Um I think there's a photo up there
[8:57] somewhere.
[9:01] Managed to take a photo there.
[9:07] Let me
[9:11] while I find that I'll go into the next
one. Um um blood donors. Um just a note,
[9:18] I'm sure you've seen it on the TV and um
and other media that we're really in
[9:24] need of blood
>> [clears throat]
[9:26] » um this time of year. Um especially now
um Blood Canada is looking u for uh for
[9:34] extra help in um and bringing their
supplies back up to where they should
[9:39] be. And um so with that in mind, we have
two clinics coming up. One is at the AMA
[9:46] on uh Thursday, July the 30th, and the
other one is a Tottenham Community
[9:51] Fitness Center on Saturday, September
the 19th. Um, please go uh and check uh
[9:58] for blood.ca because the some of the
times are changing now. They're trying
[10:02] to get more people in throughout the
day. So, you know, it may be instead of
[10:06] 1 to uh you know, 9 to1, it might be uh
10 to 2 or something like this. So,
[10:11] please check for your local um for the
local times for your own for your own
[10:16] clinics. Um, and that photo was up there
was a quick photo I took of some of the
[10:21] sake.
>> Thank you very much.
[10:24] » And the boys celebrating.
>> Thank you very much, councelor Masters.
[10:27] Councelor Rapin, please
[10:32] » have a look at the photo. Everybody
[snorts]
[10:36] » All right. Uh, thank you very much, Mr.
Mayor. over uh the last four years I've
[10:42] had the the privilege to participate in
a lot of things and um I've been very
[10:47] envious of um Tottenham and uh this year
beaten in terms of their cash draws that
[10:54] they've been running uh the Tottenham
one I I was there and I was volunteering
[10:57] at it and people were coming in and
saying hi to their neighbors from 20
[11:01] years ago. They haven't lived in the
community for 20 years, but they could
[11:04] go to the cash drawer, the car drawer,
whatever it was, and they'd run into
[11:07] each other. And and I I I envied that.
And I was wondering
[11:12] how can we do that in Alist? And I and I
know for a fact that we used to we used
[11:16] to have a car draw and we also had Relay
for Life, where we would see our old
[11:20] neighbors and and our community together
and we'd have an opportunity. Um, but
[11:24] with that in mind, I've created the
tragically hip day, which is August
[11:28] 22nd. And forgive me for telling you
about it in July, but we don't have
[11:32] council until after the tragically hip
day. So, I thought I'd tell you now. Um,
[11:36] Tragically Hips uh con last concert they
ever performed in Kingston was 10 years
[11:40] ago, August 22nd. And uh CBC will be
releasing the the concert uh that night
[11:47] at 7:00. We will be having a big screen
in the band shell and we'll be playing
[11:51] that concert for anyone who wants to
come for free to um to watch it. And
[11:55] leading into that, we've got six or
seven bands that will also be playing
[11:58] their own songs as well as hip songs.
And I'm sure for those of you that are
[12:02] going, "Big deal, I don't like the hip."
Well, we've got Cora Dairy. So, uh, that
[12:07] that might that might get you there. Uh,
they'll they'll be serving out the
[12:11] tragically chipped ice cream flavor,
which is really hard to get. Uh, so
[12:16] anyway, hope to see you all there. It
should be a lot of fun. Uh, try and walk
[12:19] or bike to it. Please don't don't drive.
Could be kind of busy. Thank you.
[12:25] » No, thank you, Councelor Rapin. And
you're right. Ice cream brings everybody
[12:28] to events. Yeah. No, it certainly does.
Any more from members of council? Hey, I
[12:34] just want to take this opportunity to
give a happy 90th birthday shout out to
[12:38] former two-time mayor in two different
municipalities,
[12:42] longtime counselor here, very involved
in the community, approximately 30 years
[12:46] of a municipal service that she has
dedicated, Francis Sainsbury. And I
[12:51] always like to call her Francis because
she gives me that look. So anyhow, if
[12:55] you're watching, Francis, on behalf of
the entire council, happy 90th birthday.
[12:59] Thank you.
>> Okay, Madam Clerk, I don't see anything
[13:03] else on my screen, so I'm going to go to
the clerk to identify any items to add
[13:06] or delete to the agenda, please. Madam
clerk,
[13:09] » thank you. Your worship, there are no
items to add or delete this evening.
[13:12] » Thank you. So, we have a motion to be
resolved to the agenda for the council
[13:16] meeting held on July 27th, 2026. be
confirmed as circulated. Councelor Best,
[13:22] thank you. Councelor Masters, thank you.
All those in favor? That's carried.
[13:26] Thank you. Disclosure of peunary
interest. Are there any members of
[13:29] council have a disclosure of pecunary
interest?
[13:34] Councelor Gabbert, please.
>> Thank you, your worship. Uh R-3, my
[13:38] spouse is an employee at Honda of
Canada.
[13:41] » Thank you, Councelor Gabbert.
[13:46] Okay, I'm not seeing any other. So, we
need a motion now. Adoption of council
[13:50] minutes be resolved that the minutes of
the council meeting dated July 13th,
[13:54] 2026 be adopted as circulated. Deputy
mayor, would you move that please? Thank
[13:57] you. Uh, councelor Harrison McIntyre,
you're here virtually. Would you second
[14:02] that? Thank you.
All those in favor? And that's carried.
[14:07] Thank you.
So, I can go to the clerk now identify
[14:11] items for separate discussion and the
reason thereof, please, madam clerk.
[14:15] » Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening
we just have item R3 as there is a
[14:19] disclosure of pecunary interest. Uh the
follow-up report Canada North vehicles
[14:24] initiative costs resources allocated and
measurable outcomes. Thank you.
[14:28] » Thank you. I'm going to go to council
now to identify items for separate
[14:31] discussion.
Councelor Masters please
[14:35] R-3 and CW1-2.
You worship.
[14:47] I'm going to come back to this in a
moment to see if there's any other
[14:50] members of council. Okay, I'm not seeing
any in regards to CW-2.
[14:57] » I'll hand it over to you, clerk.
>> Thank you, your worship. Um, as it would
[15:02] follow the same procedure as it did at
committee, you would need a twothirds
[15:05] vote to even reconsider the motion. Then
the motion would be on the floor and you
[15:09] would need a majority vote to pass.
>> Okay. So, as per the clerk's
[15:14] instructions, require a majority of
councel to allow this on the floor.
[15:17] Correct. Twothirds.
>> Yeah. First, we need the twothirds vote
[15:21] to to reconsider the motion. Then you
would need to reconsider the motion.
[15:26] » So, all those in favor of reconsidering
the motion, put your hands up, please.
[15:31] » Okay. Councelor Rapens declared a
pecunior interest. All those in favor of
[15:34] reconsidering the motion, put your hands
up.
[15:38] Okay, that does not pass. Councelor
Masters, as per our procedural bylaw, it
[15:42] will not be pulled on tonight's agenda
meeting. Thank you.
[15:46] So, we have a motion be resolved item CW
Sorry, can someone let Councelor Rapid
[15:50] Oh, there he is. Be resolved at that
item CW1 to CW5 and the committee of the
[15:54] whole meeting report dated July 13,
2026,
[15:58] including additional information
memorandums with the exception of those
[16:01] items identified for separate discussion
be approved and the recommendations
[16:05] therein be adopted. and further that
communication items and any other items
[16:09] listed on the council meeting agenda
dated July 27th 2026
[16:13] with the exception of those items
identified for separate discussion to be
[16:16] received and or adopted. Uh councelor
Rapin, would you move that please? Thank
[16:19] you. Councelor Gabrick, would you second
that? Thank you.
[16:23] Deputations. Sorry. All those in favor.
Thank you. Deputations requiring
[16:28] statutory or public meetings. I don't
have any. Deputations relating to new
[16:33] matters. There's none on the docket.
So, we're going to go to R-3
[16:40] that was pulled by councelor Gabri for
canary interest.
[16:45] So, I have a motion. It's uh be resolved
of report number GI2026-07
[16:51] regarding the Canada North Vehicles
Initiative follow-up costs, resources
[16:56] allocated, and measurable outcomes be
received. Um, councelor Cox, would you
[17:00] move that? Thank you. Councelor Bis,
would you second that? Thank you. All
[17:03] those in favor? That's carried. Thank
you. Thank you, councel.
[17:12] » Okay, madam clerk, I'm going to move on
to the bylaws, please.
[17:20] » Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Councilor Masters
Rdash.
[17:27] » It's a comment I'd like to pass on to
staff regarding Canada North
[17:32] Association. I think this is a at this
economic time for Ontario and Canada. I
[17:37] think this is a great um effort that's
put forward by everybody. I just want to
[17:41] suggest make a recommendation that
Canada North Association
[17:46] set up communications for information
with JAMAMAR the Japanese automobile
[17:50] association. Jammer's communicators are
more broad and include much of Japan's
[17:55] auto industry from a political general
industry overview and group directors
[18:00] affecting the globe including Canada. So
I think there's um more connections that
[18:05] we can make by using the JAMAMA group
which is the group that uh sets the pace
[18:10] for the auto industry in Japan. Thank
you.
[18:14] » Thank you for those comments. So it was
moved by councelor Cox, seconded by
[18:17] councelor Bis. All those in favor that's
carried. Thank you. Going to move on to
[18:22] the bylaws now. Please madam clerk. So,
we have a motion be resolved that the
[18:26] following bylaws be read a first,
second, and third time, and enacted.
[18:30] Bylaw 2026-067,
bylaw 2026-068.
[18:37] Councelor Masters, would you move that?
>> Thank you. Councelor Ha McIntyre, will
[18:41] you second that? Thank you. All those in
favor? That's carried. Thank you,
[18:45] councel. General information
announcements. I don't have any. We have
[18:50] no public notices.
So we have the confirming bylaw be it
[18:54] resolved that bylaw 2026-069
to confirm the proceeding of council at
[18:59] its meeting on July 27th 2026 be read at
first second and third time enacted
[19:04] deputy mayor would you move that thank
you councelor Rapin will you second that
[19:07] thank you all those in favor that's
carried thank you so we have adjournment
[19:12] be resolved with the meeting adjourn at
6:16 please councelor Gabri would you
[19:17] move that thank you councelor Cox thank
you all those in favor that's carried
[19:21] thank you councel
Madam Clerk, I'm going to go right into
[19:24] the committee meeting.
[19:36] So, we're going to do the confirmation
of agenda. We have a recommendation that
[19:40] the agenda for the committee of the
whole meeting held on July 27th, 2026 be
[19:43] confirmed as circulated. Councelor Bis,
thank you. Councelor Masters, you'll
[19:47] second that. Thank you. All those in
favor? That's carried. Thank you. Any
[19:52] disclosures of pecuniary interest
please?
[19:55] » Council Rapid
[20:00] on CW42
of the suggestions is property that
[20:04] backs onto my onto my property.
>> Thank you, Councelor Gabri.
[20:11] » Thank you, your worship. Um I'm I'm
declaring on the same uh number as well
[20:15] for the uh same reason stated before.
Thank you.
[20:19] » Okay. CW42, you're declaring one. Thank
you.
[20:25] Okay. Thank you.
So, I'm gonna go to the clerk now.
[20:29] » Oh, you're not.
>> Thank you.
[20:31] » Oh, you're already on.
>> Yeah. I don't know how that happened.
[20:34] Um, I'd like you to declare on CW51,
accessible parking and traffic by
[20:39] updates. I live on the 13th line.
>> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, councelor
[20:44] Bus.
[20:53] Okay.
So,
[20:59] just [clears throat] one second here.
So, madam clerk, can you lift us off the
[21:04] items for separate discussion and the
reason they're up, please? Because I
[21:06] have just want to make sure I've
captured them all.
[21:10] » Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening
we have item CW42 as there is a
[21:15] disclosure of pecunary interest proposed
acquisition of environmental protection
[21:19] lands for habitat compensation and CW51
also a disclosure of pecunary interest
[21:24] on accessible parking and traffic bylaw
updates.
[21:27] » Okay. Thank you madam clerk. So those
three items have been pulled for
[21:30] pecunary interest but will still come
up. So I'm going to go to council now to
[21:34] identify items for separate discussion
please. Councelor Rapen
[21:38] » CW52 please.
[21:46] Thank you, Councelor Masters. CW53, you
worship. Thank you.
[21:52] » Thank you, Councelor Gabbert, please.
>> Thank you. Uh CW11, please.
[22:04] » Thank you.
So, I'm going to go to the members of
[22:07] the public now. Are there any members of
the public? if they would like to speak
[22:10] to any of the items on the agenda,
please.
[22:14] » Yes, sir. Which item, sir?
[22:18] » Okay. And your name, please, sir? Uh,
you don't have to come right now. I'll I
[22:21] just make a note of it.
[22:29] » Thank you. Any other members of the
public?
[22:32] Okay. I'm not seeing any. So, I'm going
to the clerk to summarize all items
[22:37] identified for separate discussion,
please.
[22:40] Thank you, your worship. Item CW11, from
the ground, land for non-market housing.
[22:45] A written motion from councelor Harrison
McIntyre. Uh CW42,
[22:50] proposed acquisition of environmental
protection lands for habitat
[22:53] compensation as there is a disclosure of
pecunary interest. CW51, accessible
[22:58] parking and traffic bylaw updates as
there is a disclosure of pecunary
[23:02] interest. CW52
Church Street North Road and Bridge
[23:07] improvements update to item C-2 Council
May 25th, 2026. Petition regarding
[23:12] Church Street North bike lanes and
sidewalk and CW53
[23:17] Beaten Community Center redevelopment
project refinements and design
[23:21] direction. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Madam Clerk.
[23:28] So we have a recommendation that all the
items not identified for separate
[23:31] discussion be received and the
recommendations therein be recommended
[23:34] to council for adoption. Councelor
Harrison McIntyre, will you move that
[23:38] please? Thank you. Deputy mayor, will
you second that please? Thank you. All
[23:41] those in favor?
That's carried. Thank you very much.
[23:47] So the first item was CW1
one from the ground land for non-market
[23:53] housing. Councelor, it's a written
motion, I believe,
[23:59] from councelor Harrison McIntyre. You
pulled that item. Councelor Gabbert,
[24:03] would you like to speak, please? Thank
you.
[24:06] » Thank you, your worship. I just had a
quick question. I know that the
[24:08] information will come back to council.
um including the property's value to our
[24:12] taxpayers, but I'm just wondering from
staff what types of property could fall
[24:17] under non-market housing and could this
include supportive housing or emergency
[24:22] uh shelters or is the intent strictly
affordable housing for the long term?
[24:29] » I will look to um I guess director
Saget, would you answer that or GM
[24:35] Hoppy, do you want me to How would you
What would you prefer?
[24:40] your worship. Um I staff have I've just
received this so I don't think we um we
[24:45] have all the information before us but
uh I don't know if councelor Harrison
[24:48] McIntyre has anything to add to the
conversation at this point.
[24:52] » Okay. All right. So duly noted that you
are requiring more information. So if
[24:58] that is that okay council camera. Thank
you. So we have item CW1-1
[25:03] from the ground land for non-market
housing. Everyone has read the motion.
[25:06] Do you require it to be read again?
I'm not seeing that. So, councelor
[25:10] Harrison McIntyre, would you move that?
Thank you, Councelor Gabrick. Sure.
[25:15] Thank you. All those in favor? It's
carried. Thank you, councel.
[25:20] We're going to move on to CW41.
[25:25] And we have two conflicts pulled on
CW41.
[25:30] And uh that was by councelor Rapen and
councelor Gabri
[25:34] or sorry 42. I mean, yeah, 42.
And we also Okay, so just let me get
[25:41] there, please.
[25:50] » So this is a proposed acquisition of
environmental protection lands for
[25:54] habitat compensation.
Councelor Cox.
[26:00] » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Three you to
staff. Um, I see through the
[26:04] compensation land we're compensating for
86 hectare build through Honda. Um, I
[26:10] didn't see a size listed for option one.
Option two was around 28 hectares with
[26:17] 20 of that being able to be
environmentally protected. Can I get the
[26:21] sizing for option one, please?
[26:26] » Thank you. I'll go over to Director
Saget, please.
[26:30] » Thank you, your worship. I'm going to
ask uh um
[26:35] Caitlyn Cosg Gro or um manager of
development to assist in that regard.
[26:40] She was um um instrumental in pulling
this report together. So hopefully she's
[26:45] got that detail for us.
>> Thank you. Welcome manager Cosgrove.
[26:51] » And through you to councelor Cox. Uh the
compensation lands that we are looking
[26:56] for are to account for habitat. So
there's a particular habitat size that
[26:59] we're looking for. It's just under 14
acres of habitat lands for compensation.
[27:05] » Okay.
>> Supplementary if I could through you,
[27:08] Mr. Mayor.
>> Thank you.
[27:10] » Um I know that the M ZO lands are are
being used for this and the um
[27:15] environmental component that's unable to
be built on. Do we know offhand if those
[27:19] M zo lands will require a compensation
component for being built on? And if so,
[27:25] how does that relate or fit into um
these compensation properties being used
[27:29] for Honda
>> manager?
[27:33] » Through you, Mr. Mayor, to councelor
Cox. The compensation, there would be no
[27:37] monetary compensation of lands. These
lands were scheduled to come to the town
[27:42] through a plan of subdivision process.
So, there's no exchange of money other
[27:47] than the $1 exchange that occurs with,
you know, um the exchange of property.
[27:54] » Okay. Sorry, just supplementary. Maybe I
I probably wasn't clear with my
[27:57] question. So, when the M ZO lands are
built on, will there be a compensation
[28:01] component for Flat to pay for their M ZO
property being built on? Did they do an
[28:07] environmental impact study that may be
attributed to breeding bird habitat or
[28:12] anything? So, is or is that something
that they've already established is not
[28:18] needed because the MTO property? I just
want to make sure that uh if there's any
[28:23] compensation land required for Flat to
provide that this they're maybe not
[28:27] doubling up on the Honda property.
>> Manager
[28:31] » through you mayor to councelor Cox. Uh
to the best of my knowledge there has
[28:35] not been any environmental study
completed for the flat uh plan of
[28:40] subdivision as it was brought forward
through a minister's zoning order. So
[28:44] that was not a requirement of the
process as the province stepped in and
[28:48] approved that plan of subdivision.
>> Sorry, just one more supplementary just
[28:53] so we can make sure that when that M Zo
I guess plan of subdivision comes
[28:58] forward. If there is a compensation
component, I'd like to make sure that
[29:02] we're not going to be doubling up on
that environmentally sensitive and
[29:05] compensation land that there will be a
requirement probably for additional
[29:09] lands to be added for that component.
[29:14] Sorry, I sorry. Go ahead, man.
>> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. You councelor
[29:20] Cox, your comments are noted. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, we have CW-4
[29:25] Strategic Services. It's proposed
acquisition of environmental protection
[29:29] lands for habitat compensation.
Councelor Bis, would you Thank you,
[29:33] Councelor Masters. Thank you. All those
in favor? That's carried. Thank you.
[29:37] Councelor Gabric and Councelor Rapen,
you're back in, please.
[29:44] The next one is CW51. It's accessible
parking and traffic bylaw updates.
[29:49] Councelor Bis has declared a conflict of
interest on that. Thank you, Council
[29:52] Bess. Any comments or questions?
Okay, I'm not seeing any.
[30:01] So, CW51 accessible parking traffic
bylaw updates and there's a
[30:05] recommendation that report
number-2026-15
[30:09] be received. Um, everyone's has the
motion. Is there a requirement to read
[30:14] it? Okay, I'm not seeing that. All those
in favor? Well, going to have a mover in
[30:19] second or so. Deputy mayor and councelor
uh councelor Rappen. All those in favor?
[30:25] And that's carried. Thank you. Councelor
Bis, you're back in, please, sir. Okay,
[30:30] we're going to move to CW52. We do have
uh that was pulled by councelor Rapen,
[30:34] but we do have a member of the audience,
Brent, that would like to speak. Would
[30:37] you like to come up now, sir?
[30:43] Welcome.
[30:49] » Good evening and thank you for listening
to uh tonight. I can only speak for
[30:53] myself and my wife, but I'm sure that I
speak for many Church Street North
[30:56] residents. To say that hearing of the
plan to proceed with the original plan
[31:01] was disappointing would be a gross
understatement. A number of Church
[31:06] Street residents
shared their thoughts, concerns, and
[31:11] reasons as to why the original plan is
both poor and not needed. And it is
[31:15] clear that you, the council and
incumbent mayor, did not take us
[31:20] seriously. To start with, I believe that
before any final decisions are made, the
[31:25] secondary plans
placed at the very bottom of your latest
[31:29] information release, one which included
no bike lanes and the other having no
[31:34] sidewalk and bike lanes, be revisited
and implemented. Both these options save
[31:41] money, acknowledge that there is no need
for a sidewalk on the east side or bike
[31:46] lanes, and demonstrate that the needs of
voting residents actually matter.
[31:52] It is odd to me that during the 20 May
25th meeting, one counselor recommended
[31:56] that no bike lanes be put in and another
counselor brought up great points such
[32:01] as the subdivision on the north end has
been built and as such the population is
[32:06] what it is and the volume of traffic is
what it is. No in-depth traffic surveys
[32:12] were done warranting the sidewalk or
bike lanes. Two elected counselors
[32:16] expressed clear reasons as to why the
original plan should not proceed and yet
[32:21] here we are. So who then has the voice,
the real voice or power? Why don't the
[32:28] voices of counselors acting on behalf of
Worn W citizens not count? Our voices
[32:34] matter. Our [clears throat] concerns are
real. But what we have seen is that they
[32:39] don't.
They don't matter at all. How can they
[32:43] if input from elected officials don't?
Councilors and all elected officials
[32:48] have the duty and responsibility not
just to listen to constituents but to
[32:53] act on their behalf. Apparently not in
this case. Furthermore, during the May
[32:58] 25th meeting, only one counselor seemed
to know anything of substance about the
[33:03] plan. He brought up great points,
excellent questions to the engineer,
[33:07] spoke with insight and demonstrated a
thorough understanding of the plan, its
[33:11] issues and faults therein.
All of our counselors remain silent,
[33:17] seemingly almost afraid to speak. Very
few demonstrated any real understanding
[33:22] of the issue or were simply not willing
to share their thoughts or do not care
[33:27] enough. Not good enough.
While reading the latest release of
[33:33] information about how you would like to
proceed, it was hard not to notice how
[33:38] hard you worked to neutralize all of the
elements you did so poorly throughout
[33:43] this process. You identified most of
them, i.e. the doorners, and then had
[33:48] the gall to suggest that the door
knockers were handed out to give
[33:51] residents more time.
[33:55] You brought up the cost and savings
associated with putting in sidewalks or
[33:59] not putting in sidewalks and then
marginalized them and made it sound as
[34:03] if these cost-saving measures for
completely unneeded infrastructure are
[34:07] wrong and would negatively impact us. It
was quite a read complete with all the
[34:13] necessary little coverups. Change
happens. Yeah. But to disrupt lives,
[34:18] take away property, and conduct
yourselves in ways which place
[34:22] significant doubts in our democratic
system is deeply disturbing and not the
[34:27] type of change we as voting citizens
need at a time when we all need to do
[34:32] better. You have not. Change happens
yet. But the changes to our properties,
[34:38] loss of parking, and unneeded bike
lanes, which I might add the ward one
[34:42] counselor even acknowledged was
unnecessary.
[34:45] when he finally decided to speak do not
need to happen. I believe even your
[34:50] lawyers said this
that the original plan does not need to
[34:54] go ahead as planned and yet again here
we are. The people who vote for you or
[35:00] even let you put a sign in their front
yard have been cast aside and for what?
[35:05] There must be reasons as transparency
throughout this process has not been the
[35:10] strong suit and we the voting public are
not privy to the behind-the-scenes
[35:14] goings on.
It doesn't take much of an imagination
[35:18] to come up with some disturbing and sad
reasons why these decisions have been
[35:21] made. All of which by the way do not
meet the needs of the constituents in
[35:25] this area or the town. Especially given
the fact the fact that the proposed
[35:30] sidewalks and bike lanes again are not
needed.
[35:34] Town council, by choosing not to put in
unnecessary sidewalk and bike lanes, you
[35:40] a save money, which could be better
spent
[35:44] on other needed projects such as a new
beaten arena, or as I just received a
[35:48] text from uh Nelson Street West, use
taxpayer dollars appropriately to
[35:52] rebuild and fix a bridge in desperate
need of repair, upgrade aging water and
[35:57] sewer infrastructure,
and allow voting citizens to keep their
[36:02] property in significantly
uh decrease disruption to our everyday
[36:06] lives. We may be a small number of
people in a growing town, but our needs,
[36:12] concerns, and beliefs matter. So far,
that has not been the case.
[36:19] Town council, act and make decisions not
based on pressures from people who do
[36:25] not know our town, its needs, concerns,
or people. act and make decisions not
[36:31] based on companies or people who are
looking out for themselves and their
[36:35] financial or political gains. Instead,
council act and make decisions on behalf
[36:42] of the people who voted for you so that
you can sit in the chairs you currently
[36:47] occupy. Anything less is unacceptable.
Church Street North does not need a
[36:53] sidewalk on the east side or bike lanes.
do right
[36:59] by us and make the s necessary
adjustments to this plan. Thank you.
[37:08] Thank you very much.
That was the only gentleman I had uh
[37:15] asking to speak about the church street
north. So, councelor Rapid.
[37:22] » Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Uh,
thank you Brent for your presentation.
[37:29] Getting used to seeing you every couple
months. So hopefully it'll be for
[37:34] something else the next time. Let's see
if we can solve this. Um, the way
[37:39] this is this is a a four-year learning
curve for me as well. When I see stuff
[37:44] and I think, "Oh, that doesn't seem like
the right way." I'll I'll ask staff.
[37:48] They'll explain it. And sometimes I do
see it their way, and sometimes I still
[37:52] don't see it the right way. and I still
just see it my way and uh and then
[37:57] that's when I discuss with others and uh
eventually come up with a decision. So
[38:04] for me just today I biked Church Street
North six times, not to bike it to to
[38:11] show people I'm on it, but to get to the
pool, to get to downtown, to get to the
[38:15] things I I use it quite a bit. Um I also
bike a few other spots quite a bit now.
[38:21] Uh,
forgive me for the preamble. One of the
[38:25] there's three spots I really like biking
in our town. Uh, King Street,
[38:31] uh, King Street North going to
Barntormers, not because of Barntormers,
[38:35] but just going along that stretch.
Albert Street and part of the ag
[38:43] new Tcumpa town line where they've got a
one and a half to 2 meter paved shoulder
[38:48] with a a white line along it and it
gives me lots of it's not declared a
[38:52] bike lane. It's just it just narrows the
road to sort of induce traffic calming I
[38:58] think and it gives me some space to
bike. Uh King Street you'll see it
[39:03] Albert Street's a little wider. It's
it's much wider. I'm not 100% sure of
[39:07] it. You're still allowed to park on
those roads, but it gives you a feeling
[39:11] that you can bike safely and I
understand. I' I've been down Church
[39:15] Street quite a bit and there's some days
there's a pool party happening and
[39:18] there's like five or six cars parked on
the road and I understand. I'm assuming
[39:21] it's a pool party. Never been invited,
but uh [laughter]
[39:25] but um there there's those things. So, I
understand those concerns. Um so, I
[39:32] recognize that. So, the the first thing
I'm going to recommend to council is
[39:36] that um
the we don't put in official bike lanes,
[39:42] but we create these um these paved
shoulders with the white lines. There
[39:46] are some other options. I was showed
some other options where there's these
[39:49] uh white triangles emanating out of the
the curb that just sort of makes traffic
[39:54] go a little bit further away from the
curb. It doesn't really mean anything, I
[39:57] don't think, but it just but it allows
some space for bikers. So, it's not an
[40:01] official bike lane and yes, you can park
in it. Um, so I'm going to be recommend
[40:06] recommending that and I've sent a um
an attempt at a mo an amendment or or
[40:12] whatever for that. The next thing is um
I've been uh I've had a few
[40:19] conversations about the sidewalk on the
east side and and I've talked to the
[40:24] residents as well about it and I've made
this suggestion. This shouldn't come in
[40:28] as any surprise, but I'm going to be
recommending that the the sidewalk on
[40:32] the east side be a curbside
so that way there's no boulevard that
[40:36] leads to the sidewalk so that your
driveway will be longer. Now, staff has
[40:41] told me that this is harder to maintain.
And I fully understand that because when
[40:45] the snow plow when the the sidewalk plow
goes by and cleans it, the snow plow
[40:50] will always go by right after and put
snow back on. I understand that. Um,
[40:55] let's say that happens 10 times a year.
I'm okay with that because we will have
[41:01] a crosswalk at the bottom at Evans to
take us across to the west side. So on
[41:05] the days where that sidewalk doesn't
work because of that clearing aspect of
[41:10] it, they can go across the street and
get safely up on the west side as well.
[41:16] Um, so those are the two I don't know if
are they considered amendments or uh so
[41:24] uh I think this is sort proposed
sidewalk extending from or along the
[41:28] east side of the curb of Church Street
and uh traffic calming white lines known
[41:32] as urban shoulder uh instead of bike
lanes. I I I welcome any questions from
[41:39] staff or from from council but council
can also ask staff what they think.
[41:43] That's fine.
>> Thank you.
[41:44] » You're welcome. So, I'm just going to
look to the clerk. Do you have
[41:47] clarification of it? Are you able to
read it out just so white so we know
[41:52] what you have, please?
>> Yep. Thank you, your worship. Um would
[41:58] be that report 2026-16
be received and further that council
[42:03] direct staff to proceed with the church
street north road and bridge
[42:06] improvements uh substantially designed
including sidewalk. No. Substantially
[42:11] designed, including um as outlined in
report ENG 2026-16 as amended to include
[42:18] curb sidewalks along the east side of
Church Street North between Evans Road
[42:23] and Hussy Street from the current scope
of work. and further that council direct
[42:28] staff to remove the proposed bike lanes
along Church Street North and replace
[42:31] them with trafficcoming white lines
known as urban shoulder um from this
[42:36] project scope and maintain the on street
parking north of Fletcher Crescent
[42:41] subject to minor updates in keeping with
the recommendations of the
[42:44] transportation needs study.
>> Okay, thank you councelor Rapen
[42:48] captures. Okay, thank you. Any comments
or questions in regards to the
[42:52] amendment?
So, the clerk has just read the
[42:56] amendment. Oh, sorry, Councelor Bess.
>> Uh, thank you, worship. Um,
[43:01] [clears throat] I don't have any
questions per se to the the amendment. I
[43:04] just want to highlight and I think um
Mr. Smile actually pointed to it uh in
[43:09] his comments. I turn people to to page
four of 11. And I think this is really
[43:14] important for us as a council. It's a
precedent setting moment because as we
[43:18] move forward, I think we've struggled
townwide with sidewalks and with bike
[43:24] lanes. We've seen a lot of different all
the different communities have have
[43:29] resisted this. And I think this is an
important moment for us to to consider.
[43:33] And I'll just read a little bit. Uh you
know, council, this was during the the
[43:37] last session we had. We requested
clarification regarding the town's legal
[43:41] obligation to install sidewalks and
bicycle lanes as part of the Church
[43:45] Street North reconstruction project. And
I thank staff for going to the town
[43:49] solicitor who advised that the official
plan in the multimmoal transportation
[43:54] master plan is a council adopted policy
document that guides the planning and
[43:59] design of transportation infrastructure
projects. Um while staff are expected to
[44:04] implement council approved policies,
council retains the authority in its
[44:09] legislative capacity to amend or deviate
from those policies through a subsequent
[44:15] decision, which means that we not we're
not beholden to it. The town solicitor
[44:20] further advised that there is no known
provincial requirement mandating the
[44:24] installation of sidewalks or bicycle
lanes. In this context, decisions
[44:28] regarding the provision of sidewalks,
bicycle lanes, and similar
[44:31] transportation facilities are policy
decisions of council and in themselves
[44:35] do not create liability for the town.
Municipal liability generally arises
[44:39] from the negligent implementation of
construction operation or maintenance of
[44:43] infrastructure rather than from
council's policy decisions respecting
[44:47] the hype, sorry, the type of
infrastructure be to be provided. As
[44:51] such, while the proposed sidewalks and
bus lanes are consistent with the
[44:54] official plan, the town's engineering
standards, and the multimodal
[44:57] transportation master plan, we may
choose to amend the proposed design and
[45:02] associated policy direction through this
its decision on this matter. So I mean I
[45:07] I I understand the compromise that
councelor Rapen is making but I think
[45:11] it's also important for all of us as a
learning as as a moment of learning to
[45:16] understand that it is up to council for
us to make these decisions that there
[45:20] would be there's no one else forcing us
to create bike lanes or there is no um
[45:27] uh there is no polit provincial
requirement mandating these for us. So
[45:31] I'm glad that staff pointed that out so
we can if this comes to us in other
[45:36] iterations we'll be able to understand
that going forward.
[45:42] » Thank you uh councelor Masters please.
>> Uh thank you worship and u I agree with
[45:49] councel bis um that um you know we have
policies and guidelines and some of them
[45:55] are legal. you know, if there's a safety
issue involved and somebody gets hurt or
[46:00] god forbid even lose their life, then we
could be at a very lialous position. Um,
[46:06] I empathize with Mr. um, Snell's um,
issue he has there. I had the same issue
[46:12] when I lived in Beaton in the very early
days. They wanted to put a a sidewalk
[46:17] down the front of my house, which they
did. But any what um my what I'd like to
[46:21] say is that um I did go to staff
originally when this first came forward
[46:27] and the the um the inference I got was
that uh this is part of the big plan for
[46:33] the town. We're a developing town and
one of the issues was that the hospital
[46:37] is going to be double in size very
shortly and the amount of traffic that
[46:41] it's going to bring is going to spill
over into all the surrounding streets.
[46:46] So that's one issue and of course
there's other development to happen at
[46:50] the north end of the beaten I believe
and um so this is not for now. I think
[46:55] this decision was made for things that
are going to be happening in the near
[46:59] future. We're going from 44,000 people
to 89,000 people. I I'd wonder if one of
[47:05] the members of staff could can confirm
that that's true what I'm saying that
[47:09] you know it's it's in preparation for
the development that's to for the for
[47:14] the volume of traffic that is to come.
Thank you.
[47:20] » Thank you.
[47:24] » Um
one second off then answer the question
[47:28] sir.
Who who's
[47:32] » Oh, Ian, go ahead Ian. Thank you
[47:37] » to your worship to council masters. Yes,
this is part of a big plan within the
[47:42] attachment. Uh the reports included the
multim modal transportation master plan
[47:46] all the and the future DC projects which
shows church street south industrial
[47:51] parkway uh which goes as far as 14th
line which is a another environmental
[47:55] assessment we're working on that
includes multi-use trails to bring the
[47:59] east part of all to the west part of all
uh so it is part of the the the larger
[48:04] picture.
>> Thank you councelor Gabbert please.
[48:10] » Thank you your worship. Um, yeah. I also
have some uh concerns about setting
[48:14] precedents as we move forward uh
installing sidewalks and bike lanes as
[48:18] we uh redo our streets, streetscapes.
And so I'm just wondering if councelor
[48:22] Rapins amendment will meet the needs of
the residents along Church North. So if
[48:28] we approve the amendments,
uh if that's
[48:32] going to do it justice.
[48:36] Um thank you very much for the question.
So I guess I'll go back to Ian, please.
[48:42] or general manager horn. Did you want me
to Thank you. Go ahead, sir.
[48:48] » It's your worship to councelor Gabri. Um
I'm not entirely sure how to respond to
[48:52] that. Um while it might meet some needs
uh again for the ultimate picture of the
[48:57] master plan, official plan, complete
streets, it may not meet the ultimate
[49:01] picture for the for those folks.
[49:07] » Okay. Are you fine with that, Councelor
Gabbert? That answer. Thank you very
[49:10] much. So, councelor Rappen, you have put
an amendment on the floor and everyone's
[49:16] heard it. So, you're going to move that.
Councelor Rappen.
[49:22] » Sir, did you go ahead?
>> No, but please come up to the
[49:26] microphone.
>> Thank you.
[49:31] You're talking about a 600 meter area
that narrows into
[49:37] a newly constructed traffic narrowing
zone. This is a bottleneck of all
[49:44] bottlenecks. So
with a sidewalk already in place, the
[49:51] crosswalk that's been suggested
[49:56] there, there is no need to take away
the east side of the street. I
[50:03] understand what you're saying. Growth is
going to happen. It needs to happen.
[50:08] But in a 600 meter stretch, which goes
into a bottleneck, there's already not
[50:12] enough parking. And I believe in the uh
the the piece that you guys put out, it
[50:16] said people can park on adjacent
streets. Well, where's that?
[50:22] I mean, it's it's ridiculous. And so
growth is going to happen. It has to and
[50:29] it will. Change will happen. It needs to
and it will. But to your point, uh, Miss
[50:35] Gabbert, will it meet the needs of the
people who can't get oxygen in, who
[50:41] can't get their sons or daughters in to
help them with cancer treatments? Will
[50:45] it meet the needs of people in
[sighs]
[50:50] No, it won't. So, at Christmas time or
whatever it might be, when my family
[50:55] wants to come over or many families want
to have their families over, we simply
[50:59] can't park.
It's if it if it was an absolute
[51:05] necessity, I wouldn't be standing here.
I wouldn't
[51:10] and I wouldn't call into question what
you do and how you go about your
[51:14] business because I'm not you and I'm
simply not entitled to to what you know.
[51:24] But to say that to replace 600 meters
and take away property for the sake of a
[51:32] sidewalk in a bike lane, which I'm glad
you rode your bike, but I also saw you
[51:36] drive by
is not enough to warrant the disruption.
[51:44] Do we need new water lines? Yes. Do we
need new sewer lines? Yes. Does that
[51:48] bridge need to be done? Unequivocally.
But I challenge any of you to sit here
[51:54] and look me in my eyes and tell me that
ripping off the east side of the street,
[51:59] putting a sidewalk in is going to make
the difference that you're suggesting it
[52:03] needs. It's not.
The sidewalk on the west side is big
[52:08] enough.
The crosswalk at the top works just
[52:12] fine.
[52:16] I'm sorry. I don't buy it. Nor does
anybody on Church Street North. And
[52:21] furthermore, again, the last time we
were here, it was said that when
[52:27] decisions and information came out about
this,
[52:31] that it would be emailed out.
Well, it wasn't.
[52:36] My neighbor Gary was told that someone
would come and talk to him. Didn't
[52:43] happen.
So, you'll forgive me
[52:49] for being
Kurt,
[52:54] but we're not talking about
a little thing here.
[53:00] We're talking about massive unnecessary
disruption
[53:05] that does not meet our needs
and that
[53:10] needs to be discussed. And if there is
no legal precedent to say that we need
[53:14] to rip up that side of the street, take
it away, then why are you doing it?
[53:19] Why?
That sidewalk on the west side handles
[53:25] more than enough traffic.
[53:29] Parking for hospital employees should be
a an issue. Why do why do they have to
[53:35] park at the donor diamond? Hopefully
that gets remedied.
[53:41] » Okay. But there are bigger issues here.
>> Thank you, sir. I'm going to go to the
[53:45] deputy clerk, please.
[53:50] Thank you, Council Harrison McIntyre.
Thank you, director Clerk.
[53:56] » Thank you, Worship. Um,
I was I I hear what's being said and and
[54:04] um the deputent made a point which is um
I just wanted to put a suggestion
[54:10] forward. When you go north on Church
Street, it does narrow and there is no
[54:14] sidewalk on the east side of the street.
So there's only sidewalk on the west
[54:18] side. So we would be putting in a
sidewalk that connected to Victoria
[54:21] Street. Yes. But then um up at the top
of Church, you I just wonder if it makes
[54:27] sense to um perhaps not install a
sidewalk at all on the east side of the
[54:32] road, but stick with doing bike lanes
because as we know um it's we're doing
[54:37] this for future planning connecting to
other bike lanes that are going to be
[54:41] done in other parts of the municipality.
So, this is just like right now it looks
[54:45] like it's in the middle of nowhere, but
eventually it will be hopefully a
[54:48] connected trail uh trail connected
network. Um, so just I mean I'm not
[54:55] trying to there's already deputation.
There's already amendment on the floor
[54:58] that we need to vote on. However, I just
thought I would put that out as part of
[55:03] the discussion. Um,
because as a deputent said, there is no
[55:08] sidewalk north of on Highway 9 on
Highway 9, excuse me. North
[55:13] Sorry.
>> No, thank you for that. And um I'm sure
[55:17] you can do a friendly amendment. Am I Is
that allowed, Madame Clerk?
[55:22] » Thank you, your worship. If um councelor
Rappen is open to the friendly amendment
[55:27] or he could ask to vote on his
amendment.
[55:32] » I believe the amendment would be keeping
the bike lanes and my answer is no. I
[55:36] will not accept that. That would be a
hostile amendment.
[55:41] » Okay. Councelor Cox. Sorry, councelor. I
had to give you the opportunity to
[55:45] respond.
>> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I just
[55:51] wanted to make sure I heard it clear.
So, we're not putting in the bike lanes,
[55:55] but we are putting in the white line
lines. We have that similar on Patterson
[55:59] Street. We're actually waiting for um a
connector before we turn those into bike
[56:03] lanes. um which will probably take uh
still a number of years which would
[56:08] probably still be uh the same for this
also which means that you can still park
[56:13] on the street. When it comes to the
sidewalk, um since this is on committee,
[56:18] if I could potentially ask staff to come
back with how that's going to affect the
[56:24] driveway parking now that um the
amendment to this recommendation is
[56:29] going to have the sidewalks curbside and
we can see how that affects the uh on
[56:35] driveway parking. That would be great um
at our next meeting. But I am supportive
[56:40] of also painting the white lines. It is
a good traffic calming measure and if
[56:44] there's still able to be on street
parking then I think that's good for the
[56:49] residents also.
>> Thank you for that. So that was
[56:53] direction for the next meeting to come
back if that information can be
[56:57] provided. Correct. Okay. Okay. Councelor
Rappen, you have moved your motion.
[57:03] Thank you. Is there a second for
councelor Rapin's motion? Councelor Cox.
[57:08] Everyone's heard it. All those in favor
[57:13] one, two, three, four. Does not carry.
So I'll read the original motion.
[57:20] Church Street North Road and Bridge
improvements update to item C-2.
[57:24] Council,
the recommendations that report number
[57:28] ENG2026-16
be received and further council direct
[57:32] staff to proceed with the street church
street north road and bridge
[57:36] improvements substantially as designed
including sidewalk and bike lane
[57:40] installation as outlined in report
number 2026-16.
[57:45] Um, councelor Bis, did you want to move
it or you want to speak to it?
[57:51] » Okay. Um, thank you, worship. I don't I
I didn't I don't think that uh Council
[57:57] Rapins plan went far enough, and I think
that if we had included what Councelor
[58:02] Harrison McIntyre in terms of getting
rid of the the sidewalk, I think it may
[58:06] have passed, but um certainly I won't
support the original motion, and I think
[58:11] um Council Rapid's motion didn't quite
go far enough. So, um I'm it's too bad
[58:17] that they left because I think there's
more to this, more legs to this than
[58:21] than what we're Brad,
[58:25] » before I get there though, um,
[58:30] » okay, Deputy Mayor, go ahead.
>> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I've
[58:34] heard a few members of council speak
about precedent. This precedent has been
[58:39] set through the municipality. We have um
I always say and uh maybe it's not a
[58:45] super popular thing, people love
sidewalks until they're in front of
[58:48] their house and then they absolutely
I've been requested same as other
[58:53] council members for sidewalks in certain
areas of town consistently since I've
[58:58] been on council since 2018.
Um but also when the sidewalks are
[59:03] happening in front of their house,
nobody likes them. And it's generally
[59:07] because they're losing parking. I get
it. I only have a three-car parking lot.
[59:10] If I had a sidewalk in front of my
house, it would go down to two and and
[59:13] that affects how how I operate my my
family and my property. However, we've
[59:19] done road reconstruction in Beaton and
Tottenham and we've we've done the
[59:24] sidewalks. The sidewalks are where I get
sometimes feeling like they're not
[59:29] necessary today, but when you're
reconstructing a road, you're doing it
[59:33] for the next 40 to 50 years of its life.
So what we know today is not going to be
[59:38] the alliston in 10 years, 20 years, 30
years, 40 years. And we do I mean we're
[59:43] we're here for the to listen to the
community, but we we also have to build
[59:48] safe streets and sidewalks are a part of
that. Um
[59:54] it allows I met with some residents on
Church Street. Um, and we met at their
[59:59] house and we sat outside and um, it was
about, I believe, 3:00 in the afternoon
[1:00:06] and it was very easy to explain to to
the residents why this road is
[1:00:11] considered a minor collector. It was
busy there. There was bikes on the
[1:00:15] sidewalk. There was people walking on
the sidewalk. There was tons of cars
[1:00:19] going by. I think I stopped counting
when I got to
[1:00:23] I think it was 40 or 50 cars going by. I
stopped counting. So, it is a very very
[1:00:30] busy very busy street and um side like I
said sidewalks are not popular when
[1:00:36] they're in front of people's roads. I
know in beaten um they did what
[1:00:41] councelor Rapen suggested which was to
move the sidewalk abuing basically the
[1:00:46] curb of the road um which which allowed
some more homeowners to have that third
[1:00:52] or fourth space in in their driveway.
Um, so I I I do appreciate the the
[1:01:00] amendments that councelor RPen put on
and I and I do support those. Thank you,
[1:01:05] » Councelor Rappen, please.
>> Thank you. I'm I'm lost as to where we
[1:01:12] are in this. Uh, I'll just speak for a
second. And, uh, number one, uh, the
[1:01:17] south side of Church Street, they have
curbside. That's what it is there for
[1:01:22] crying out loud. Now, I just want to
take it north and put a sidewalk there.
[1:01:26] We the bike lanes in my assessment and
my walking and talking to the citizens,
[1:01:32] the residents on that street, they're
concerned about the the aspect of
[1:01:36] parking for those times that they need
lots of parking, whether it's daycare
[1:01:40] drop off at 8 in the morning or
something like that. That's why I
[1:01:43] suggested the calming uh white lines
because when those cars aren't parked
[1:01:49] and dropping off a kid or picking up a
kid at a daycare, the bikes will go in
[1:01:53] there. Cars don't purposely drive in
those white lanes. They don't like
[1:01:56] anyone who's driven on on uh Elbert. How
many have driven in the white lane
[1:02:00] there? Probably none of us. So, they're
they're effective. Are they a bike lane?
[1:02:05] No. I'm dis I'm I'm sorry that they're
not an official bike lane. I do
[1:02:09] recognize the fact that what we do now
and I brought this up on many other
[1:02:14] occasions in council with other things.
We're not planning for me and you. I'm
[1:02:21] planning 30 years from now. I'm planning
10 years from now. I'm planning 40 years
[1:02:25] from now. It's I'm So some things are
going to bite a few of us here and
[1:02:29] there, but in the grand scheme of
things, it's the the goal is the
[1:02:33] community. The goal My goal is the
community.
[1:02:37] And I'm I'm I'm shocked that I wasn't
able to relay that to to my c to to
[1:02:43] council. I'm really disappointed that I
I I didn't do my job and get this
[1:02:46] across. And I and I apologize to the
residents for that. Um I thought I had a
[1:02:51] compromise of which some people are the
idea is that everyone's a little bit
[1:02:56] upset with me as opposed to some people
really happy and some people really
[1:03:00] upset. I'd much rather you all be a
little upset at me or that kind of
[1:03:04] scale. I'll take that. But with with
whatever comes out of this, uh, I'm I'm
[1:03:11] I'm afraid that maybe we've we've sort
of let down the residence a little bit
[1:03:17] on this one. I I think the compromise I
had was a good one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry
[1:03:21] that I didn't I wasn't able to uh to
change the effects of anyone else on
[1:03:25] that. So,
>> thank you for those comments. Councelor
[1:03:29] Gabbert, please.
>> Thank you, your worship. I think my um
[1:03:33] word precedent was taken out of context
because I actually meant that going
[1:03:37] forward we're going to have to do this
in a lot more neighborhoods and it's
[1:03:39] going to be a pain point coming up again
and again. And if we do this in this
[1:03:44] instance, it might still not meet the
needs of the residents on Church North.
[1:03:48] So are we setting a dangerous precedent
by doing a peace meal of this project?
[1:03:53] Um, so I thought that councelor Cox had
a really good suggestion to hear back
[1:03:57] from engineering um with what the
lowered sidewalk might do in terms of uh
[1:04:03] future clearing and precedent setting.
>> Okay. Thank you. So is there any other
[1:04:11] comments from members of council? So I
think the request is to refer this back
[1:04:15] to staff for more information that's
been discussed around the table.
[1:04:20] Everybody okay with that? Okay. So then,
uh, Councelor Gabrick, you'll move it.
[1:04:24] Councelor Cox, you'll second it. All
those in favor? That carries. Thank you,
[1:04:28] councel.
[1:04:31] Okay, we're moving on to Give me a
second here, please.
[1:04:39] CW5-3
beaten community center redevelopment
[1:04:43] project refinements and design
direction. Did you uh you pulled that,
[1:04:47] councelor Masters?
[1:04:52] Thank you, worship. Am I on?
>> Thank you, worship. Um, I just have a
[1:04:58] comment really. Um,
you know, the residents of Beaten,
[1:05:02] including myself, prior to moving uh
from the town six years ago after 43
[1:05:07] years. Um, I've been highly focused on
building a new community rec center
[1:05:12] facility for many years now. However, we
should recognize that our town
[1:05:16] population has changed drastically over
the last 20 years. Everything has
[1:05:20] changed moving closer to one TNT
community. Having said this, even though
[1:05:27] this facility is being built and beaten,
we should ensure it will support and be
[1:05:31] able to be used by anyone in the town of
New Dumps. That's my comment. Thank you.
[1:05:39] » Thank you for that. Any other comments
or questions in regards
[1:05:43] story? Mr. Swirl, did you want to come
up please?
[1:05:48] If you've got this public meeting,
please
[1:06:03] first of all, thank you very much for
allowing me to address the beaten
[1:06:09] [sighs and gasps] uh issue.
Um, for those who don't know me, I'm the
[1:06:14] chair of the committee of adjustment and
have been on the committee of adjustment
[1:06:19] here in town for the past 14 years. But
I'm not here to talk about that. I'm
[1:06:24] here to uh actually give you an outline
of what's happening with minor hockey
[1:06:32] across Canada right now.
And um it's my understanding um that
[1:06:39] you're about to vote on a proposed new
beaten arena. I myself played hockey
[1:06:44] extensively as a youngster. Uh my two
boys were on rep teams and Bruce can
[1:06:50] attest to that because he put them in
the penalty box many times. Um my
[1:06:55] grandsons are also playing Triple A. Um
and just to relieve any preconceived
[1:07:04] notions that uh I'm not on board with
the idea of a new rank. I am, but there
[1:07:11] is some hurdles that need to be crossed.
Um I can pick paint you a picture of the
[1:07:18] current status of minor hockey
throughout Ontario. Figure skating, ice
[1:07:22] rentals, etc. that other communities are
and have experienced over the past
[1:07:28] number of years. They are all singing
from the same hymbook. And we'll use New
[1:07:34] Market as an example because I was
president of New Market of Minor Hockey
[1:07:38] back in the day. Um, and I was also on
the committee of adjustment thanks to
[1:07:43] Pam when I moved to to uh Allison. She
grabbed me off the street and got me
[1:07:50] involved here. Um, but their ice rinks
are the biggest expenditure of the town.
[1:07:57] Um, all the rinks in Ontario sit idle
from midnight till uh till 4:00 in the
[1:08:05] afternoon when the bus drops off to kids
from school. The upkeep of any arena is
[1:08:10] a 24-hour endeavor and an exorbitant
cost to each and every town. The Ray
[1:08:17] Twin Complex was a state-of-the-art in
its day.
[1:08:22] um at double ice pad last winter was
shut down Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday all
[1:08:30] winter long because the registration for
hockey has dropped. When I was running
[1:08:38] New Market Minor hockey, we had eight uh
2,800 kids. Today, they have 800 of
[1:08:45] which only 200 play house lake. the
other four the other 600 or 400 I think
[1:08:52] it is four or five that that play rep
hockey and now with the advent of the
[1:08:58] OMA
allowing kids from other centers to go
[1:09:05] it even sets aside the number of kids
that can play. So
[1:09:13] what's really happened is however you
know I do believe
[1:09:18] » [clears throat]
>> um that you have arrived at a 44 to 46
[1:09:22] million expenditure for the beaten rink
alone and that's what at least was
[1:09:28] published.
Um, I don't think I have to mention that
[1:09:32] this is an election year, but your
timing is a way off the mark and trying
[1:09:36] to sell this expenditure
140 days prior to the election with an
[1:09:41] estimated $500 bump to everyone's taxes
in new tech just to cover part of the
[1:09:47] project.
Uh my question is have you ever explored
[1:09:52] the muchneeded community center for host
activities in beaten where it is
[1:09:58] conducive to each householder and looked
on as money well spent and better better
[1:10:04] sell to the to all of new tech. That
would be an excellent start and well
[1:10:09] overdue.
Lastly, in addition, prior to building a
[1:10:14] new rink,
the only [clears throat] way you can
[1:10:17] build it is if it's justified. And I
assume you've all done your homework and
[1:10:22] ice time is at a premium in new tech
right now.
[1:10:26] What we did in New Market was we asked
each individual group that uses ice over
[1:10:33] the winter and ball hockey in the summer
to give us the hour that they would
[1:10:38] spend. So when you get that information,
then you can say, "Okay, we need a new
[1:10:44] rink or we don't need a new rink."
Obviously, I hope you've done your
[1:10:48] homework and you're asking for a new
rank for $450 million or four45 million.
[1:10:56] Um, if you do your homework, it's an
easier sell. Soon as that came out in
[1:11:01] the paper the other day, it's just gone
rampant through town. And you guys don't
[1:11:07] hear it, but I hear it. Um and getting
comments from each association
[1:11:14] uh for the coming year is what you
really need. And you certainly should
[1:11:18] look at [clears throat]
the option of putting a single pad
[1:11:24] attached to the current double pad here
in town and that's your complex. Um the
[1:11:32] infrastructure is there, the parking
that uh I'm sure you're going to have to
[1:11:36] add, but the lights are there,
everything is there to get in and out.
[1:11:41] Um and if you take a single pad and put
it in along the other two, it's going to
[1:11:51] be so much less expensive and a lot
easier to sell to the public here in
[1:11:56] town. When they see that number of 450,
my phone rang off the hooks. They go,
[1:12:01] "What the hell are they doing over
there?" Um, and whether that's erroneous
[1:12:05] or not, I'm not sure, but go ahead with
go ahead with the community center in in
[1:12:10] uh um Beaton where [clears throat]
everybody can use it. You know, they
[1:12:14] look at the older people look at the the
ice rink and they go, "Well, we don't
[1:12:18] use it, you know, but our kids do. We
have to provide that. I understand that.
[1:12:23] I get that." But I think what you really
got to do is take this to the next
[1:12:28] level. sit down and make sure you've
exhausted every avenue of where you can
[1:12:33] put the new rink besides beating. We we
know you've done your homework with the
[1:12:38] beaten thing, but make sure that you
know are we going to save money by
[1:12:43] putting in a single pad. Um you still
got two pads there. Um but coming down
[1:12:51] spending $45 million, it's not now. It's
what Mr. Raffin said. Uh, councelor
[1:12:58] Rappen said it's five years from now,
10, 15, 20 years, you're going to have
[1:13:04] the Ray 20 complexes across Canada,
which is happening right now, sitting
[1:13:09] empty. And you still have to keep them
going. You still have to to, you know,
[1:13:14] if they open them up for a day or two
days, they still got to have ice in
[1:13:18] them. They still got the generators
going and so on and so forth. I just ask
[1:13:23] on behalf of everybody else that if you
would just make sure all avenues are are
[1:13:30] uh looked at and uh good luck.
>> Thank you very much, sir.
[1:13:37] Any other comments from members of the
public? Okay, I'm not seeing any. Um
[1:13:45] any comments, questions for members of
council?
[1:13:49] Councelor Cox.
Thank you, Mayor Narcross. Uh, thank you
[1:13:54] staff for this report and thank you for
your deputation regarding the beaten
[1:13:59] facility. We are at 99% um capacity for
prime time ICE. Um, I understand that
[1:14:07] the price tag on this seems high. Um,
I can tell you that this council and
[1:14:15] myself are going to exhaust every option
for grant funding, sponsorship,
[1:14:21] everything that was added into the
motion before this came to council. Um,
[1:14:27] also absent from the report was I know
that the timeline was included as to
[1:14:31] project milestones.
Um, this is not going to be a tax hit
[1:14:37] for the 2027 budget. um that's not how
we do the funding for these projects.
[1:14:42] So, we do have time to get that
sponsorship um and that uh fundraising
[1:14:48] and grant component. A number of
counselors
[1:14:52] uh the mayor, deputy mayor, and staff
are going to be attending the AMO
[1:14:55] conference in the next couple weeks. We
have the opportunity to uh get in front
[1:15:00] of ministers for the province to um uh
get this project in front of them for
[1:15:07] additional funding.
Uh the federal government just released
[1:15:11] uh grant opportunities for arenas and
recreation components totaling I believe
[1:15:16] it was around a billion dollars.
Um
[1:15:22] on top of that um I would like to ask
staff it's the facility design to pursue
[1:15:28] a high level of Rick Hansen Foundation
accessibility certification
[1:15:33] just is phenomenal. That sounds great.
Just a few things missing in the report
[1:15:37] for that. if we can get that to come
back to the next meeting, how that could
[1:15:41] uh potentially
um affect the budget because I didn't
[1:15:45] see uh any budget implica implications
included in that and also the um design
[1:15:52] footprint if we can get that back too.
Um
[1:15:57] and if we can also look into I know that
staff is once again asking for an NHL
[1:16:03] size ice service. um if we can look into
potential sizing similar to the TCFC
[1:16:12] which I believe is um kind of an in
between the beaten facility currently
[1:16:18] and what we have at the NTRC which is
NHL size ice. I would appreciate uh that
[1:16:24] coming back to look for potential cost
savings in that too at the next meeting
[1:16:28] please.
>> Thank you.
[1:16:32] » And sorry I'm I forgot one thing. Go
ahead.
[1:16:34] » If we can continue to work with um our
ball hockey user group um and get any of
[1:16:41] their questions answered that uh they've
presented to council in the last couple
[1:16:46] emails uh in the next couple weeks
before we come back to council. Sorry, I
[1:16:50] guess it's like a month, the next month
before we come back to council. If we
[1:16:53] can continue to have staff work with our
ball hockey user group too, please.
[1:16:58] » Okay. Just for clarity, councelor Cox,
did you not want to make a decision on
[1:17:02] this tonight till that information comes
back?
[1:17:06] » Um, no. We can we can still make a
decision on this, I think, and that can
[1:17:09] come back. We still it's not passing
completely through. It's only committee.
[1:17:13] So, we have that ability at uh at
council, but if we have that additional
[1:17:18] information while we pass this
recommendation, that would be great.
[1:17:20] Please.
>> No, thank you. We just want to ask for
[1:17:23] clarification. Councelor Masters.
Thank you, worship. Um, I think, um, you
[1:17:30] know, um, as councelor Cox mentioned,
you know, there's some ice choices out
[1:17:36] there. And, um, um, there's basically
three ice choices. We have Olympic size,
[1:17:42] we have our regular HA size, and we have
our beaten size. And, um, I think that
[1:17:48] question was brought forward before. Um
but I noticed that um Carlo, president
[1:17:53] of the ball hockey league is in in in
the audience right now. Um there was a
[1:17:57] discussion um regarding the size of the
ice um and how it would be adaptable for
[1:18:04] the ball hockey league and I think at
that time it was mentioned that um the
[1:18:09] ball hockey league doesn't need the
whole ice there especially in practice
[1:18:13] they can use part partial or half or a
quarter. I'm not sure the exact wording
[1:18:18] at the time. And um if that's the case,
when the ice is taken out, um can we uh
[1:18:25] is there a a sectioning off um equipment
that can be used to divvy up the ice
[1:18:31] according to how the bull hockey league
would like to uh utilize it at that
[1:18:36] time. And um and I I wonder if that if
you have an answer to that or if that
[1:18:42] has been discussed with the bull hockey
league and that would dictate what ice
[1:18:47] we can go with uh you know so uh which
would be so if we decide to go with the
[1:18:53] NHL size ice then perhaps that would
work you know uh well for the ball
[1:18:59] hockey league if we have the proper
dividers to be you be in place. That's
[1:19:06] my question.
[1:19:10] Okay. So, your question I I don't think
they finalized that design yet, but I'll
[1:19:15] go to uh Director Mobs, please.
>> Through your worship to um councelor
[1:19:20] Masters, I do have Philip O Sullivan,
the prime architect with working on the
[1:19:24] project from Perkins Wall. So, I'll if
it's okay with you, Mr. Mayor, I'll pass
[1:19:28] it over to him to answer this question.
Um if council wishes, we can also speak
[1:19:33] to the cost for Rick Hansen
certification as well.
[1:19:37] Thank you.
>> Go ahead, sir.
[1:19:39] » Uh through you, Mr. Mayor to council
masters. Um yes, the answer short answer
[1:19:43] is yes. Um there can be any number of
creative design solutions created to
[1:19:47] utilize the ice, let's say an NHL size
pad um in ways that could accommodate uh
[1:19:53] ball hockey. Uh that's again would take
a great deal of conversation with the
[1:19:57] ball hockey league, which we're happy to
do. We have done in the past already and
[1:20:00] we're happy to continue that
conversation. Um it remains to be seen
[1:20:03] whether or not that'll be satisfactory
to to the ball hockey league. That's
[1:20:07] that's the first thing. Um I will say
just as a a point of note that um to
[1:20:11] your comment about three types of ice
which was quite apt. Um we traditionally
[1:20:16] in my career in the last kind of 25
years have done none other than NHL size
[1:20:21] ice just as a record in terms of
community standard across Ontario and
[1:20:25] even the world if you will. Um and
that's where I'll leave it on that. to
[1:20:29] follow with the Rick Hansen. Um I have
been part of or led the design team that
[1:20:33] has had the great success of of having
Rick Hansen design certification. Um and
[1:20:38] that's a gold they give it gold stars.
Um we have in fact received three as far
[1:20:42] as I recall. Um that process is done in
a two-stage process. It's done both in
[1:20:46] the design phase which is means all the
way up to the end of drawings prior to
[1:20:50] bid. That's when you get your your kind
of first design. They go through it in a
[1:20:54] couple of iterations and ask questions
about that and that's incorporated into
[1:20:57] the design process. That's not that
there's no cost to you save and accept
[1:21:00] um the registration which is relatively
minor compared to the the price tag of
[1:21:04] the building as a whole. Um and secondly
the second part of the certification is
[1:21:08] during what they call occupancy
preoccupancy you do a review and you
[1:21:12] have uh the reviewer who is assigned by
Rick Hansen they come to the building
[1:21:15] and they look at it before you occupy to
make sure there is no kind of
[1:21:18] outstanding um deficiencies I'll call it
in terms of their review from the design
[1:21:22] side and again that is also it's it's
kind of a predium rate relative to how
[1:21:26] many times they've got to come back. So
overall in general without having
[1:21:29] specific project sizes as you say we
haven't finished the design but the cost
[1:21:33] is relatively minor or I would say minor
compared to things like lead
[1:21:38] certification other kind of
certifications that are out there
[1:21:40] relative to building well fit well that
kind of thing.
[1:21:42] » Okay thank you councelor Biss.
>> Uh thank you worship. I think this is a
[1:21:47] great discussion tonight. You know we're
looking at a $46 million project. We
[1:21:52] need to get this right. It's a lot of
money. So, we have to make sure that we
[1:21:55] take all the input from our friends in
ball hockey, our friends at TNT. Um, you
[1:22:01] know, we've got to figure out what we
can do in order to reduce the costs, not
[1:22:05] just the capital cost, but also the
operating costs. Let's make sure that we
[1:22:09] keep that in mind. How much is that how
much that's going to cost the taxpayer
[1:22:12] every year? And so, I think this is
great discussion. And I think um I think
[1:22:16] it's good that we're taking this slowly,
that we're looking at all the options
[1:22:20] and like I like we've talked about
tonight, what is the most appropriate
[1:22:23] size of the ice in order for us to uh
accommodate today's users and
[1:22:28] potentially tomorrow's users. I'm a big
believer that uh there's only right now
[1:22:34] we live in the moment. The future can't
be determined. The past is the past. So
[1:22:38] let's live in the moment and let's
figure out exactly what we need today.
[1:22:42] Um but what we definitely need is to
make sure that we um do this in the most
[1:22:46] cost-effective manner possible. So I
look forward to having more update uh
[1:22:51] another update come the council meeting
next month and um any work that can be
[1:22:55] done in order to accommodate and work
with our user groups so that we can
[1:22:59] ensure that they use it to keep our
operating costs down because at the end
[1:23:03] of the day we've got to make sure that
those user groups that pay the bills are
[1:23:07] still there to pay the bills when we
build this $46 million facility. So, um,
[1:23:12] your worship, I would just ask staff
just keep be cognizant of that fact that
[1:23:15] make sure the user groups are all
consulted that they that we that they
[1:23:19] understand the cost that we're working
on here and that we can continue to
[1:23:23] figure a way to reduce the cost of this
facility. And to councelor Cox's uh uh
[1:23:29] to what she was saying, let's make sure
we do our very best in order to get
[1:23:33] grants from the other levels of
government in order to make this
[1:23:35] affordable despite the fact that we are
going to grow hugely in this this this
[1:23:40] municipality. So we'll have a larger tax
base. Nevertheless, we need to
[1:23:44] understand that this is these these
prices and these costs are going to be
[1:23:48] impacting today's residents and not
tomorrow's.
[1:23:53] » Thank you for those comments. So, um,
I've had nobody offer to refer this till
[1:23:58] the additional information is received.
And the recommendation is that council
[1:24:04] confirm a North American ice surface
measuring approximately 200 feet by 85
[1:24:09] feet as the functional program for the
beaten community center redevelopment
[1:24:13] project and its report number RFC2026-23
be received and for the council direct
[1:24:20] staff and the project consultant to
incorporate universal accessibility
[1:24:24] princip principles into the facility
design and pursue a high level of Rick
[1:24:28] Hansen Foundation RHFAC. including
design considerations to support sledge
[1:24:34] hockey program and participation. And
further, council direct staff to review
[1:24:38] and refine project contingency and soft
cost allowances through detailed design
[1:24:42] and report back to council with updated
estimates at a project at appropriate
[1:24:46] project milestones. So, councelor Cox,
did you want to move that? Okay. Is
[1:24:51] there somebody like to second that? Um,
councelor Rappen. All those in favor?
[1:24:59] It's carried. Thank you. Okay. So, we
look forward to the future report. So,
[1:25:04] thank you very much. And Director Mobs
that we're clear. Yeah, we're fine.
[1:25:07] Okay, great. Thank you so much.
[1:25:16] Okay, we have no public notices
and we're moving on to a German.
[1:25:24] Great job tonight, Madam Clerk. Thank
you.
[1:25:27] So, we have a recommendation that the
and your team recommendation that the
[1:25:31] committee of the whole meeting of July
27, 2026 adjourn at 7:22 p.m. Councelor
[1:25:36] Bish, you'll move that. Councelor
Masters, you'll second that. Thank you.
[1:25:40] Thank you to all the residents that came
out tonight. Thank you to staff.