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To the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it

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stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice

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for all.

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» Okay. Before we get started, I'd like to
announce that after our work session

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last week, council met in executive sk
session to discuss ongoing litigation.

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I would also like to welcome members of
Troop Scout 29 who are here with us

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tonight to observe their local
government uh to get their citizenship

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in the community merit badge. Welcome.
>> Okay, moving on to public to be heard.

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Does anyone have any uh public to be
heard for items not listed on tonight's

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agenda?

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» Please enter the conference pin number.
>> Sorry, we have someone joining us

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remotely.

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That pin is invalid for this conference.
Please enter the conference pin number.

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» That pin is invalid for this conference.
Please enter the conference pin.

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» Judy, can you go see if there's anything
we can do to at least turn the volume

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down a little bit so we can keep going?
Thank you.

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Um, so I see no public to be heard for
items not on the agenda.

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Okay. Then before we move on to our
presentations, I'd just like to ask, is

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there anyone here um on behalf of their
certificate of appropriateness being

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heard tonight?

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Okay. Well, then I was going to move
those forward if we had someone uh here

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present, but since we don't, we'll move
on and we'll start with the EAC Bowman's

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Hill plant grant presentation.

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I think by way of introduction this is
the reason for this presentation or are

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you going to be saying that some
>> you can

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» you'll let me do it. Okay. Um, okay. The
New Town received a grant from um

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Bowman's um Hill Wildflower uh
um for planting native plants in three

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locations in the burrow, one being
Patriots Park, one being the New Town

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Common Park, and the other being um
along a drainage swale off of Chancellor

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Street. The two parks have signs in them
that have educational information in

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them regarding native plants, but the
swale does not have that and we are

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required to have an educational
component to receive this grant and

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summer u bound from the uh EAC has
kindly offered to make that presentation

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to us.
>> All right. Well, good evening. My name

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is Summer and I'm a member of the
environmental advisory council here in

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New Town Burough. Um, as Julia said, I'm
here to, uh, present the educational

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component of the Bowman's Hill
Wildflower Preserve Grant that was

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awarded to the burrow last fall.
Uh, this presentation will focus on New

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Town Burrow's beloved storm water
discharge system named Old Skunky. We

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will go over fun information about Old
Skunky, Old Skunky's role in storm water

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management, and how native plants are
helping to maintain New Town Burough's

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storm water systems. What we won't talk
about is how Old Skunky got its name.

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I'll leave that for interpretation.

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Before we get into the thick of Old
Skunky's history, here's a map of where

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Old Skunkkey flows through the burrow.
It starts at the northeast corner of

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Washington Avenue and flows southwest
towards South Street or South State

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Street and eventually discharges into
the New Town Creek.

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Now, here's some history about ye old
skunky.

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Old skunky was originally considered a
tributary of the New Town Creek. A

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tributary is a stream or river that
flows into a larger river or body of

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water. Now, a fun fact, New Town Creek
is a tributary of the Namin Creek, which

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flows into the Delaware River drainage
basin. The Delaware River Basin provides

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fresh drinking water to over 15 million
people spanning four states and includes

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major cities like Philadelphia and New
York City.

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Old Skunky is one of two surface water
resources in the burrow and is

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considered an open storm water sewer
system. So for reference, the EPA

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defines storm water as rainwater or
melted snow that runs off streets,

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lawns, and other sites. When storm water
is absorbed into soil, it is filtered

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and ultimately replenishes aquafers or
flows into streams and rivers.

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Storm water runoff has also been
identified as a number one cause of

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pollution to rivers and streams, which
is the source of our drinking water. As

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New Town became more developed, Old
Skunky's channel was diverted. There is

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a section of Old Skunky between
Chancellor Street and Lincoln A where

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the stream was enclosed. The enclosure
causes the intersection of Penn and

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Chancellor Streets to flood due to its
incapacity to handle excess storm water.

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More development in the burrow meant
more issues for our dear old Skunky. You

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might even say Skunky was having a
stinky time.

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In the 1960s, when Washington Village
was being developed, stormwater

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management was not typically a
consideration in cons in construction

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planning. More development means more
impervious pave surfaces. This was bad

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news for Old Skunky. Since there was no
storm water management plan, poor old

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Skunky experienced more runoff,
flooding, and erosion. The flooding was

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so severe that eventually the burrow had
to replace the inlets and piping under

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South State Street.

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Excessive runoff from flooding and waste
disposal may give you a hint to what

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earned Old Skunky its endearing name,
but that's just a guess. After decades

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of what old skunky may have called the
H2O no years, restoration projects were

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underway. For example, the retention
basin at New Town Station alleviates

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some of Old Skunky's water load. The
basin can carry approximately 600,000

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gallons of water. That's about 5 million
pounds.

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Recent projects have studied New Town
Burough storm water management and the

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importance of Old Skunky's role. These
projects have helped with slope

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regrading, bank stabilization, and the
installment of native plants.

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For a burrow with a population of about
2,300 people, Old Skunky is a vital

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system for storm water management. It is
responsible for 23 of the burough storm

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water discharge.
Despite its wary and sometimes stinky

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past, Old Skunky continues to flow.

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So, now that you know about Old Skunky,
let's learn about Old Skunky's swale.

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Old Skunky's swale is a vegetative area
where Old Skunky runs through Chancellor

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Street. The swale is about 300 ft long
and 20 to 30 feet wide. A swale is

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simply defined as a lowlying space or
depression between ridges. If you make a

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fist and look at the indented space
between your knuckles, that is what a

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swell looks like. A swell's main purpose
is to collect and manage storm water.

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Storm water can be thought of as water
looking for a safe place to go. When it

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doesn't have when it doesn't have
somewhere to go, it causes flooding.

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During its search, storm water picks up
pollutants along the way. A swale

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provides storm water a place to flow
into and to gradually seep into the

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ground. This is how a swale slows the
storm water's infiltration rate.

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Infiltration rate is a measure of how
fast water enters soil. As the storm

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water seeps into the ground, the soil
also filters a storm water of its

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pollutants. So instead of the storm
water flooding and polluting the New

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Town Creek, Old Skunky Swale offers
storm water a chance to collect, slow

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down, get filter through the soil, and
infiltrate our water table.

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Swells can also be a hospitable
landscape for diverse ecosystems.

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A soil with native plants creates
habitat and food for animals and

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pollinators, which in turn benefits our
community as a whole. The generous grant

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from Bowman Hill Wildflower Preserve has
given us the opportunity to add

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additional native plants to the swale's
embankment areas.

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So, here's some pictures of the swale
during the drought last summer. A cool

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thing about swailes is that they have an
amazing ability to retain moisture,

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especially with the help of native
plants and their root systems. You can

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see the vegetation around the soil is
still pretty green despite how dry it

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was.

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Old skunky and it swale playing an
essential row role in the burrow's MS4

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program. MS4 stands for municipal
separate storm sewer system. You can try

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saying that 10 times fast.
As defined by the PA,

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MS4s are conveyances or systems of
conveyances, including roads with

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drainage systems, municipal streets,
catch basins, curbs, gutters, ditches,

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man-made channels, or storm drains that
are owned or operated by a public

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entity. They are designed or used for
collecting or conveying storm water and

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are not a combined sewer or part of a
publicly owned treatment works. MS4 is a

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required program/permit that is
regulated by the DP, the Department of

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Environmental Protection.
MS4 program's main goal is to regulate

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storm water, how it is discharged, and
the associated pollutants.

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Every MS4 permittee establishes a storm
water management program. The program

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addresses the impacts of stormwater
runoff and solution plans.

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The S SWMP requires a focus on six
minimum control measures. Some of these

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include construction site runoff
control, pollution prevention,

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education, and outreach amongst others.

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Now, after all this talk about Old
Skunky and storm water management, what

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is storm water management? How do native
plants help with storm water management?

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Well, I'm so glad you all asked. By
definition, storm water management is

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the use of practices to reduce, detain,
slow down, or remove pollutants from

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surface water runoff and can be used to
restore natural processes previously

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provided by nature. Old skunky and its
swale have the ability to do all these

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things, especially with the help from
native plants.

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So, what are native plants? Native
plants are defined as a species that

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occurs naturally in a given location
either because it evolved there or

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dispersed to that location without
benefit of human activity.

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Native plants have a plethora of
benefits for the environment, animals

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and humans. So next we will see how
native plants contribute to storm water

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management, erosion control and
biodiversity.

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Native plants have remarkable abilities
to fix many man-made problems. To quote

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the infamous Io Wilson, "There can be no
purpose more inspiring than to begin the

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age of restoration, reweaving the
wondrous diversity of life that still

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surrounds us."
End quote. As opposed to non-native or

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exotic exotic plants, native plants have
an extensive root system that can hold

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on to soil. Their roots prevent erosion,
increase storm water retention, and

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slows down the infiltration rate of
groundwater while filtering out

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pollutants.
Native plants provide necessities like

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food and habitat for local fauna and
flora. This is also how native plants

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increase biodiversity.
For example, echynasia, the common name

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is cone flower, feeds our pollinators
and animals with its nectar and seeds.

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When the seasons change, burrowing bees
will overwinter in the woody stems.

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Echanasia also has medicinal properties
for humans as a remedy for colds and

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immune support. As an extra bonus,
native plants minimize maintenance

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costs. They require less mowing, less
watering, and no chemical or fertilizer

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applications.
Sounds like a pretty good deal.

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So, this is a list of the plants that we
planted uh around the soil at Old Skunky

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from Bowman's Hill.
Here are some of the plants being

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installed. They don't look like much in
these photos, but once they're

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established, they will fill out nicely.
So to wrap up this presentation, I'd

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like to showcase a couple of the native
plants we received from Bowman Hill

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Wildflower Preserve.
This one's called Clethral on a also

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known as summer sweet or sweet pepper
bush. It has fragrant and very

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attractive flowers. Excellent food
source for pollinators and it's also

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deer resistant. It tolerates wet
landscapes and does well in sandy soils.

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In fact, it's often used for erosion
control along bodies of water. The next

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time you go down the shore, notice how
erosion has affected the shoreline. You

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might notice that these areas with dunes
and plants are much more stable than

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those without. So for those of you with
shore houses and experiencing the

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effects of erosion, this native is a
great plant to keep in mind.

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This is picntheum, also known as
mountain mint. Oh, the picture didn't

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show up. Well, it's not an aggressive
spreader like other mints you might find

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at a garden center. It's fragrant and
can act as a natural repellent for

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mosquitoes and ticks. It's also deer and
rabbit resistant. It enjoys moist areas,

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so it's a great plant choice for old
skunky. Is also fairly drought tolerant.

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It's a wonderful food source for
pollinators. If you plant this, your

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yard will also be humming with
honeybees, hummingbirds, and

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butterflies. The leaves have culinary
uses as a seasoning or a tea to treat

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colds, help with anxiety, insomnia,
tummy aches, and so many other ailments.

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Because it's a native plant, it doesn't
require fertilizer or pesticides, so it

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also reduces landscaping costs and will
save you money.

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There's the picture. There we are.
Uh on behalf of the New Town Bureau and

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the EAC, I'd like to extend a ginormous
thank you to Bowman's Hill Wildflower

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Preserve for awarding us this grant uh
making our community a more

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environmentally sound and wonderful
place to live. I thank you all for

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00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:09,519
listening and being here today. I hope
you enjoyed this presentation and maybe

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00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:13,360
learned something. If you're feeling
inspired, reach out to your local

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environmental advisory council or
township about how you can get involved

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00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:21,920
in projects that make a difference.
Because without a thriving environment,

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00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,959
where would we be? Uh, you can stay
tuned to New Town Burrow's new

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00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:30,880
newsletters and the environmental
advisory council's new web page for more

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updates about upcoming projects. And uh,
I thank you.

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00:15:55,839 --> 00:16:00,759
are currently the only person in this
conference.

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00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:14,880
So now we'll move on to our next
presentation which is about the Liberty

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Center development proposal.
Are you all using the technology as

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00:16:16,959 --> 00:16:21,199
well? Okay, great.
>> I'm not, but we are.

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» Okay. [laughter]
>> Uh, I'm Ed Murphy. Um, I'm here tonight

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with Jim Worthington and a host of other
project consultants to

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uh discuss
about the Liberty Development proposal.

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Please continue. Sorry.
>> Okay. Um, I'm here tonight with Jim

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Worththington and uh multiple of the
project consultants to discuss a project

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that has probably been one of the most
discussed publicly um in the history of

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00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:14,799
the burrow. It used to be known for many
years as the steeple view project that

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00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:19,120
went on seemingly for almost a
generation and resulted in various

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00:17:16,959 --> 00:17:25,360
levels of approval.
Uh Jim Worthington purchased the

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property almost 14 months ago in uh
early 2025

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and uh we had our first informal
workshop session with um a handful of

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burough administration staff and several
council people last mid July when we

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made everyone aware of Jim's acquisition
and also some tenative plans he had for

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how he would uh look to modify the
previously approved plan. Uh we spent

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the balance of the summer and early fall
um doing um due diligence on the plan

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various uh reached out to some u local
stakeholders to get their sense of it.

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And then we met for the first time in
early November last year with your

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planning commission and we presented at
that time a a sketch plan. Uh we did

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have the benefit of a review
uh from Michelle Fountain's office when

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we did have that first meeting. And much
like the first staff meeting in mid July

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where we got a fair amount of feedback
of issues to be uh thinking about as we

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embarked on any revision to the plan. We
had that same kind of feedback from your

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planning commission last November 3rd
and we've since that meeting have

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followed up again with um different um
groups stakeholders if you will within

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the burrow. Uh Jim's had a number of
listening sessions which I'm sure you're

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familiar with because some of you
attended those and uh more recently we

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made u a more formal submission of the
revised sketch plan and a companion

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uh overlay ordinance that we call the
green rate greenway redevelopment

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ordinance or the grow ordinance. that
would be a vehicle that would allow the

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plan that we're going to present to you
tonight if everybody thinks it makes

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sense uh to move forward. So, uh, this
opportunity tonight is to allow Jim

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briefly and then the project architects
and then, um, the project planner to

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talk about the design elements that
we've incorporated into the plans since

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some of you saw it last July and
hopefully the uh, benefit of that we see

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in considering this amendment as opposed
to relying on the prior most recent

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amended final approval for the steeple
view project. So, uh, with that as

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background, Jim wants to make only a
very brief commentary and then we'll

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turn it over to the project architects
who will have a more visual presentation

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of uh, the work product we've developed
since last July.

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My name is Jim Worthington and thanks
[clears throat] for having us tonight. I

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just want to give you a little brief
history. Uh very brief. Um two years uh

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prior to purchasing the uh project from
Allan Smith, who I admire dearly. I

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think he's done tremendous things for
the burrow and the township. uh myself

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and a friend of mine spent uh
virtually dozens of meetings with Allen

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trying to get familiar with the project
and I was very excited about it in terms

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of because he's he's a visionary and he
does really good things. Um during that

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two-year project, we also were talking
to different stakeholders, residents

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around the site, which was then Steeple
View, uh business owners on State Street

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and surrounding areas. And we found out
that the what Allen's vision was did not

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coincide with what the folks around
there thought. And I came in with very

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excited about, hey, I'm going to buy
this plane. I'm going to just do it. But

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that wasn't the feeling. and sense we
got from the people there, they were

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concerned about a number of things uh
that that that I wasn't aware of. And

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then after I purchased it in January of
uh of that year, uh we dug further into

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it with my experts and people that were
working on my project to find out that

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all the fears of the people that were um
not thrilled with the the plan and were

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looking for something different came
true. So, for instance, the plan that

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Allen had uh versus the plan we have had
1,700 more cars per week per week than

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our plan that we developed, which is
85,000 cars more a year. That was a

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problem. People were concerned about
traffic. That's what we were repeatedly

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told. People were concerned about
off-site parking that was in Allen's

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plan down at the stocking works saying,
you know, this doesn't make sense

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because people aren't going to go down
there and park. We realized that was

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true, too. So, we came up with a plan
that basically park right on site.

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People were concerned about the fact
that there was going to be limited

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public parking. We provided much more
public parking in our new plan. Um there

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was a a plaza space that was uh very
much needed and wanted. It was something

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that the burrow I think insisted upon.
We saw that uh plaza space which was

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nice but it was 5,000 square feet. We
said hey there's room to do much better.

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We made it 15,000 square feet. We
tripled the size of it. Every place we

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looked at where we could improve Allen's
plan. We did. Um, and the biggest thing

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was the business community was
definitely afraid of more competition.

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They didn't want another restaurant.
They wanted no more coffee shops. They

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said it's hard enough to to now
business-wise to compete. And here we

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are going to bring in more people, which
is going to cause more traffic and

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decimate the people there. What they
wanted was people that lived in the

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community. So, what I originally thought
I was going to do, which would have been

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really easy, we scrapped because it
wasn't right for the community. And I've

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done business in New Town now in two
years, 50 years. Some of you have been

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members of my club. And we try to do
things that are exemplary. And we try to

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do things that give back to the
community. People may not like some of

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the things I do outside of my business,
but the fact of the matter, I've always

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have thought that what I could do best
for our community, whether it's raising

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money for charities or uh supporting
different businesses or whatever the

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case may be. Um, so the plan we're going
to present tonight, I think you'll get

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the facts from our our experts here, is
a far better plan than Allen. And that

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doesn't mean that Allen didn't have a
great vision. He did. But at the time he

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came up with that many many years ago,
New Town has burrow has changed quite

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quite a bit. And I think this plan on
its merits uh really really adds to the

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community. Really I think it's it's a
wonderful community. I you may or may

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not have heard I've most recently um uh
I will be buying the Burden Hand

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Building uh on April 15th. I have two or
three other uh sites right on State

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Street that I own. I have a vested
interest in making sure we do a plan

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that really really contributes to the
community. So, that's all I really

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wanted to tell you. I'm I'm honored to
be able to stand here and say I have an

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opportunity, I think, to do something
that's a really gamecher for the burrow

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and I think the surrounding community.
And I'm very proud and blessed to say I

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will do everything I can to make that a
huge success. And I think um we do have

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information that we and I do want to
tell you we did we did go around and uh

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one of my employees, Linda Mitchell, who
will be celebrating our 45th uh work

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anniversary this May, uh basically went
on foot, which is pretty good for

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somebody 75 years old, and went door to
door every every surrounding business,

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every resident she could with unbiased
asking, "How do you feel about this

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project?" not asking them for their
support, just playing it right down the

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middle. And I think if we get a chance
to show you the results of that, it was

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pretty overwhelming that people uh
people really want to see this happen.

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So anyway, thank you very much for
listening to me and I appreciate it.

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So, what you're going to see next is um
a visual

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uh and a descriptive presentation from
David Mow and Michael Lawson. Uh both uh

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00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:27,440
members of Minnow and Wasco, which is a
regional architectural firm

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headquartered in Lambertville. Uh Dave
and Michael have been working with us

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from the get-go since um Jim's
acquisition of the property last year

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and um I think uh hopefully you'll feel
as we do that the changes that um they

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will visually review with you and Jim's
overview description of that are

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I think provide real municipal benefits
to um the burrow and to a greater area

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outside the burrow when you see the
changes that hopefully uh you'll think

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are worthy of incorporating into any new
revised plan. So with that as

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background, I'll turn it over to David
and Mike.

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» Good evening. I'm David Mow um with
Minnow and Wasco Architects and

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Planners. And I have a big smile on my
face tonight. I'm a New Town burrow

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resident and this plan I think is going
to be uh what New Town needs in this

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location. We've had an eyesore in this
location for years and years and we'd

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like that to end and do something beyond
just be a development project uh for a

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developer to make money. This is
something very special that uh the

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community needs and will benefit from.
Uh Do you advance? Go ahead.

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So, uh, this is our development team,
Jim and his partner Bob Weller, myself,

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Michael Lawson, Lynn Yahaya, who's a
landscape architect,

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our civil engineer, Ron Monree, Ed who
you know, Jeff Manard who works with

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Jim, and John Kennedy who's a who's a
planner.

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Why don't you move on? I think Jim has
covered some of these main points. So,

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I'm going to reiterate a little bit of
what Jim said, not much, but um we have

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created a 14 to 15,000 square foot
uh town square on the property. And this

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is a place that can be activated by New
Town Burrow to do various things whether

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it's a Christmas tree lighting or bull
market carts. Uh any kind of festival

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that we want to have. It can have
entertainment. Uh we have a a covered

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pavilion where groups can perform and
it's a space that New Town really

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doesn't have and it does happen to be
right in the center of town.

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We've enhanced the greenway trail. It
was always contemplated

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uh in the plan uh that was approved
prior to this, but we've made some very

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special changes to it and it's going to
be a great walkway for the community.

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It's open to the public. It's not a
private amenity all along New Town Creek

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in this section of the property.
the um

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public parking spaces. We've got
55 u public parking spaces.

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We have 20 parking spaces set aside for
phase one residential. The building uh

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the residents who live over the liquor
store off of State Street are just

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parking with everyone else in that beat
up parking lot. So we've got reserved

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now 20 specific spaces for those
residents.

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We've got 20 spaces for the existing
retailers, the liquor store and our

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favorite croissant store.
So we've provided the parking that we

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need not only for the commercial and for
public, but we've also got the required

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number of parking spaces for our
residents.

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Um, one of the things you'll see about
our parking that's quite different from

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the prior approved plan by Alan Smith is
that our parking u, much of it for the

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residential portion is underneath the
buildings and out of sight. And this is

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something that makes it a higher quality
project all around. It's a elegant way

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to live. You can park under your
building and take an elevator up uh, and

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avoid the inclement weather when you're
bringing groceries in. And so it's a

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very very nice way to live.
We've uh the project now includes 125

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rental uh apartments and we expect our
renters here to be in two basic groups.

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We and we see this all over in downtown
redevelopment. The first group would be

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young uh professional type people who
are just starting out and running an

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apartment uh employed in the area. And
the second group which we see in

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particularly important in the New Town
project is an empty neester market. Um

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we have many people who have lived in
New Town and the surrounding communities

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for a long time who may be at a point
where they're selling their home and

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want to keep a a residence in New Town.
Maybe they're buying a home in Florida

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00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:42,159
or the Carolas, but they want to keep a
residence here because this is where

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their relationships are. This is where
their families are. This is where they

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worship. This is their home, and they
want to stay here in a in a very, very

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nice building. So, that's that's kind of
who we seek coming to this project.

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The other thing that Jim mentioned was
that we have 85,000 fewer

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annual car trips to this project than
the prior approval.

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And a lot of that is based on the fact
that we have removed the retail

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component that was in the prior approved
plan. And as Jim mentioned, the retail

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that was contemplated here was
competitive with our good merchants on

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State Street and other locations within
town on Sycamore.

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And uh there was really not the proper
parking to support it. And it created

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this uh influx of parking even in the
evening which would have been in a

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little bit of a competition with the
residents and a nuisance for the

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residents to have cars coming in
throughout the evening for retail uses.

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So we think that this is a benefit to
reduce the amount of traffic that's

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coming in and out of this site.
Um the architecture that we're going to

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be presenting tonight is a high quality
architecture that really works well with

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the phase one architecture. We did meet
with Harb and we got comments from them

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that they wanted to see an
interpretation of

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uh what was done in phase one and the
idea there I think is that it's a

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it's a site that did hold industrial
uses back in the day. We actually

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00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:33,039
consulted with Jeff Marshall who helped
us figure out what existed on this site

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way back in the day. And as you may
know, larger businesses tended to locate

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00:33:36,399 --> 00:33:45,200
in two places historically. One was
along rail railroad tracks and the other

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was along streams or waterways. And on
this site in particular, there was a

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00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:54,799
very large millwork company that was
located right there along the New Town

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Creek. There was also a a huge complex
of green houses in that location. So,

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architecturally, you know, we can play
off of that idea of older industrial

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00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:09,440
buildings that have been renovated into
newer residences. And that's what we've

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00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:15,839
done. And I'll let Michael, my partner,
u describe that in a little bit more

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detail. Next slide.
Uh this is just an area that I think

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points out the uh supporters and
solicitation of people to comment on

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00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:37,000
this on this project. This is where we
handed out um uh you know leaflets and

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00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:37,000
gave information. Next,

399
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:46,240
so this slide is a portion of the
approved Allen Smith slide. This is the

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northern end. Center Avenue is on the
right hand side of the sheet. And this

401
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:59,119
was the approved plan. And he had a
great deal of retail on this end of the

402
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:04,160
site in buildings two and three. And the
small plaza area that he had next to the

403
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:08,560
creek was located right there adjacent
to Center Street.

404
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:16,720
But he has very very little parking
there for that retail. Um and as you uh

405
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:22,000
the park the public parking which is
sort of in the center of the site was

406
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:28,240
too far away for the state street
merchants uh to be effective for them.

407
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:34,400
Next slide.
This is more of the um southern end of

408
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the site where he had uh small
residential buildings perpendicular to

409
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:45,040
the creek sort of lined up. um no
parking under the building, all surface

410
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:50,640
parking. And in fact, he didn't make the
parking work on site. I think 50 spaces

411
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:55,599
to support this project where at the
stocking works, which I think was a

412
00:35:53,280 --> 00:36:00,160
difficult thing for the boards here to
approve, even though they did, but I

413
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:05,680
don't think personally I don't think it
worked. People really weren't going to

414
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:11,040
walk that far to either uh park for the
residents or park for retail.

415
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:16,880
Also, this uh big circle in the center
of the site ate up a lot of land and

416
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:21,839
really didn't do much u for the site at
all. So, that's one thing that we we saw

417
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:29,520
as a as a big problem right from the
get-go. Next,

418
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:35,680
so here is a a portion of or this is our
site plan. Uh we have three residential

419
00:36:33,359 --> 00:36:42,079
buildings. one, two, one on the left,
two in the middle, three on the right.

420
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:48,400
And these buildings have 43 units in the
first building, 49 in the second, and 33

421
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,720
in the third.
And as you look on the right hand

422
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:58,320
portion of the plan, we've got a greatly
enlarged town park and pavilion

423
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:02,960
building. and you'll see renderings of
what this looks like, but we've taken

424
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:07,760
the entry that's uh sort of behind
Starbucks and the hardware store and

425
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:13,440
we've made that a a special paving
street as you come in that ties right

426
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:19,520
into the plaza itself.
And on days when you'd be having

427
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:25,040
functions there, music or performance or
whatever, we can close off that portion

428
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:31,119
of the street and have it be an even
larger uh plaza that would include the

429
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:36,480
street area itself. So that that's
something that I've seen done

430
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:41,359
successfully in in several towns uh in
downtown areas.

431
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:46,960
um our parking and I'll I'll let Michael
go through it but much of it is

432
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:55,599
underneath the building. We have 241
residential spaces for 125 units and we

433
00:37:51,680 --> 00:38:02,400
have 133 of those as garage spaces. So
there are more than one to one spaces uh

434
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:05,440
garage spaces for the residents.
And I'm going to let Michael take over

435
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:12,480
and show you some beautiful
architecture. I must say that our client

436
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:19,520
Jim has said, "I want to make this a
legacy project." Um, and he said that in

437
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:24,160
relation to the quality of all the
materials to be used in this project and

438
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:29,119
the design of the buildings. He wants it
to be something that will look good on

439
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:34,079
all four sides. It's not going to have a
beautiful front and vinyl siding on the

440
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:40,240
back. It's going to be a wonderful
four-sided project. And um I'll let

441
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:43,520
Michael describe the architecture. Thank
you.

442
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:47,119
» Thank you, Dave.
>> Perfect.

443
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:51,520
» Thank you so much. As Dave alluded to,
my name is Michael Loss. I'm a partner

444
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:55,760
uh with Dave at Mano and Wasco and we
specialize in these kinds of

445
00:38:52,960 --> 00:39:01,839
developments in downtown areas where we
try to rehabilitate areas that are not

446
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:07,760
succeeding. Um, and I think Dave really
illustrated how the vision now for

447
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:12,720
Liberty Center as well as ownership um,
really looked and saw what different

448
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:17,839
components needed to be enhanced. Dave
alluded to the fact that we have this

449
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:22,800
beautiful now retail or uh, events plaza
located here with the pavilion. We also

450
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:28,000
have located the public parking closest
to the Starbucks and closest to State

451
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:33,440
Street so that those people that are
using that public parking can have an

452
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:38,480
easy and accessible uh walk back up to
where all the businesses are located. As

453
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:46,240
we come down into the site, we've really
taken a uh view that we have to minimize

454
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:50,640
the the size of the buildings through
shaping them and creating view

455
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:56,320
corridors. And one of the things that we
did here was you can see on each of

456
00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:00,880
these corridors heading down towards uh
the inner side of the site, that is

457
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:05,280
where we've located our main entry, our
architectural feature. You can also see

458
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:10,560
that we've done that here in this
location. We've in we've included even a

459
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:15,839
park uh next to this area for green
space. And you can see this kind of

460
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:20,800
working through the whole site plan.
There are different nodes that occur as

461
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:25,680
you walk through and you experience the
site. And that's really what we wanted

462
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:31,800
to do. That's how it integrates into the
burrow and the downtown here uh in New

463
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,800
Town.

464
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:40,640
Yes. So, as you look at at the at the
plan that you have here, this is a

465
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:44,720
ground floor plan. The gray areas are
that parking those parking uh spaces

466
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:49,839
that are on the ground floor. They are
the garage parking spaces. They're these

467
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:54,560
light gray areas here and here. This
building actually has them in a basement

468
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:59,440
level underneath it. So, there's even
parking underneath this this uh building

469
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:06,240
here in building one. So each of these
buildings has that level of parking. The

470
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:10,800
pink areas is where we have those nodes
and that's where we have that lobby

471
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:15,119
space and amenity space. That's going to
include a few different things and I

472
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:20,160
have uh some imagery of that as we get
further along. But in there you'll have

473
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:25,440
an elegant lobby space. You'll have a
club room, fitness areas, co-working

474
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:30,079
spaces, all the amenities that come and
are expected now in these kinds of

475
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:34,960
communities throughout the Northeast.
And then um as you see these plans as we

476
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:39,200
progress further, you'll see that the
yellow components are the residential

477
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,520
units, how they stack in the building
and how they step back in different

478
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:46,520
locations as we move up the the plan
here.

479
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:53,599
some of the areas that we're looking to
enhance. Um, and these are some theme

480
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:58,960
imagery of the public spaces that we're
we're hoping to create, the public

481
00:41:55,839 --> 00:42:03,520
plazas, the entertainment areas. Um,
areas that you can have a Christmas tree

482
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:09,200
lighting or manora lighting or an event
for your holidays. Um, as well as like

483
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:14,720
Dave mentioned, you could have uh areas
for food trucks and festivals and those

484
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:19,280
kinds of things, but also for leisure.
the the walkway along the creek is an

485
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:24,400
very important piece of this
development, but also of the the entire

486
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:29,440
downtown New Town Burough. And that
really allows us to connect both the

487
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:34,400
residential to that natural perspective
that you see into the creek um but also

488
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:38,400
to the downtown and the walkability of
downtown.

489
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:42,400
These are some of the images that I just
alluded to for the interior amenities.

490
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:47,200
These are this is the level of amenity
that is expected at these kinds of of

491
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:52,319
projects and and these types of new
residences. So you can see the the the

492
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:56,880
private dining areas for the residents
of the community, the club rooms, the

493
00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:02,160
fitness areas, as well as the level of
design that's brought into each of the

494
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:06,720
residential units. As Dave said, the the
people that we expect to be living here

495
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:10,640
and renting here are people that have a
high quality of living. They want to see

496
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:15,359
these kinds of amenities and they want
to see wood floors. They want to see a

497
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:22,240
beautiful kitchen. Those are the things
that make this community that much

498
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:26,800
special for uh New Town Burough.
As we go up to the next floor plan, this

499
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:30,960
is actually a typical floor plan. And
this this shows that on the upper floors

500
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:35,920
of the building, you have all
residential units. This is where we have

501
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:42,960
a mix of one uh bedrooms, two bedrooms,
and three-bedroom units that really

502
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:47,280
enhance and create different uh size of
units for the different income levels,

503
00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:52,079
but also for what people are looking
for. We think that we have the correct

504
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:56,640
mix uh that's warranted for this uh
downtown environment. And as Dave

505
00:43:54,319 --> 00:44:01,200
alluded to, we do have the correct
amount of parking to park these uh uh

506
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:05,920
these residences both in the surface
parking as well as the garage parking

507
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:10,400
underneath the buildings.
This is then the roof plan. And you can

508
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:15,040
see that on the roof plan, this is where
we hide our mechanical units, but also

509
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:19,760
we have an amenity up here as well. And
on buildings two and three in this

510
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:24,560
location and this location, we're
providing for rooftop amenity decks.

511
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:28,880
This was really important for Jim and
his and his development team that we

512
00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:32,720
created an an area that you could go up
to the top of the building and you could

513
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,920
look over the creek, look over the
natural environment, as well as look

514
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:43,599
over downtown uh the downtown area. In
these areas, you'll see that you have

515
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:49,119
fire pits, you have areas for lounging,
you have areas to uh allow you to

516
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:53,520
sunbathe in in certain areas, um as well
as barbecue grills and areas uh so that

517
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,240
you can actually cook um and bring those
things back down to your

518
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,480
» Wi-Fi
>> as well as work outside and Wi-Fi, which

519
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:08,000
is very important nowadays in in our
technology communities.

520
00:45:03,839 --> 00:45:13,680
So that leads us into the vision of what
this is going to look like. And I bring

521
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:19,599
up this is um the an image looking from
our our central street um at building 2

522
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:24,240
at the entry to building 2 where the
park is um that we've created at the

523
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:28,240
center of the site. And as Dave had
said, we met with Harb and we worked

524
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:33,760
with them um through a pallet of
materials that includes an elegant gray

525
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:38,960
brick um as well as traditional brick
detailing um with modern accents. And

526
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:46,000
you can see those modern accents at the
center uh entry area where we have uh a

527
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:51,040
a larger glazing area on that on the
building that denotes where we believe

528
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:55,440
the node is on the building. the
important piece where people are drawn

529
00:45:52,880 --> 00:46:01,520
to, but it also has a contextual
element. Even on this building, as you

530
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:05,839
as you came in, it has a large glass
entryway. On several other buildings

531
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:10,720
throughout the burrow, it has this
vernacular. We wanted to use that as

532
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:14,800
well here to bring in some context in
terms of how buildings have been

533
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:19,520
rehabilitated in the burrow. You can
also see that on um several of the

534
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:24,240
different architectural elements, we've
created a residential feel. And you can

535
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:28,400
see that in the gable pitched roofs that
we're creating, the bay windows that we

536
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:33,440
have on the on the building, the
balconies that we've incorporated into

537
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:39,520
the language of the ins and outs, as
well as the [clears throat]

538
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:43,760
the divided lights in each of the
windows on the lower portion of the

539
00:46:41,359 --> 00:46:48,000
building. This breaks down the scale of
the building and allows for a more

540
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:53,257
residential typology that we think
merges well uh with the the aesthetic

541
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:55,277
that we were trying to create on site.
[clears throat]

542
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,319
The next image just takes you slightly
around is looking at the same building

543
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:06,640
at a different perspective here. Um you
can see how we're pushing in the

544
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:11,280
building in different locations. That's
where we have several of our balconies

545
00:47:08,319 --> 00:47:15,599
as well as our um stepbacks in the
building. On the top floor of the

546
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:20,800
building for a lot of the proportion of
it, we do have a pretty considerable

547
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:25,839
step back. A step back is a push back of
the building on the top floor. This

548
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:30,240
allows for the eye to be stopped at that
one story below where we have that

549
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:34,560
cornis line and that glass railing as
you walk past it. It's another way that

550
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:39,200
we're breaking down the scale of those
buildings.

551
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:44,079
This is now a view of the same building
on the walkway side. And here you can

552
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:48,880
see that on the one side we have the
creek, we have the walkway, and then we

553
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:53,200
have our parking on the ground floor and
three stories of residential above.

554
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:57,760
We've changed the materials as we get
higher in the building to a panel

555
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:02,880
material rather than a masonry material.
It allows for a softness as we go up the

556
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:06,960
building, but also allows for us to step
back the building here above the

557
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:12,280
parking. That allows for larger private
terraces for those first floor of

558
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:12,280
residential units.

559
00:48:12,319 --> 00:48:19,280
This is an image looking at the entry of
building one. This is that L-shaped

560
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:23,520
building that we looked at on the plan.
You can see here we have a slightly

561
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:28,000
different um style. We have the two
gable roofs on either side. We've really

562
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:34,559
minimized the height in this location,
bringing those uh top gables down into

563
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:40,000
that top floor. Um, as well as creating
that entry node that we talked about um

564
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:44,559
as well throughout the presentation.
Here on this side of the building, we

565
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:50,400
have a much larger at uh right above the
parking podium uh amenity area that can

566
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:56,960
be used for public or private events as
well as barbecue grills, lounge areas

567
00:48:53,119 --> 00:49:00,800
for the residents of the community.
>> And you can see the entry of the parking

568
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:05,200
going down underneath the building using
the grading of the site to our benefit.

569
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:09,920
That's another thing that I did want to
bring up. As you can see, we're sitting

570
00:49:07,839 --> 00:49:15,680
at the lowest point of the site in a lot
of these areas. South State Street is

571
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:20,160
actually almost a story higher um at
that level. So, the buildings, even

572
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:25,280
though they are four stories tall, do
sit much lower in the site. As you as

573
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:29,040
you kind of know if you've ever been to
the liquor store, which I'm sure you all

574
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:33,280
have, that liquor store actually sits a
story lower for its entry. from South

575
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:37,680
State Street, you go down the hill and
you enter in on the lower level. That

576
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:42,319
allows for these buildings to minimize
the height and we think that it's still

577
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:47,680
very much appropriate uh to then add
this height in this location. As Dave

578
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:51,440
said, historically this site has had
larger buildings on it, more

579
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:56,880
manufacturing buildings, those kinds of
things. This is now what makes sense for

580
00:49:54,240 --> 00:50:02,240
downtown areas. Manufacturing doesn't
make sense. residential walking wallets,

581
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:06,960
people who are going to activate your
downtown. Really makes a lot of sense

582
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:11,599
here.
This is uh as we now progress towards

583
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:16,480
the public plaza. This is building
three. This is a a smaller building. You

584
00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:20,640
can see the same kind of architectural
details that we've added to the

585
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:24,400
building. You might say, "Okay, so it
looks a little bit the same from

586
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:31,040
building to building." That was actually
a comment from Harb. They wanted a a

587
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:35,200
harmonious and a similar contextual
feeling on each of the different

588
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:39,599
buildings. Originally, we had proposed
several different brick varieties, some

589
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:43,520
different materials. The guidance that
we received back from them is that they

590
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:46,960
wanted it to be more streamlined. We
heard that and we prepared a

591
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:53,839
presentation and designed the buildings
appropriately in that manner.

592
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:59,599
This is now a view as we progress closer
to that public plaza on the walkway

593
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:04,240
side. On this side, we actually are able
to put our fitness center and some of

594
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:09,920
our amenities activating that walkway uh
at that level here. So, we have large uh

595
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:15,480
open windows um areas that you can see
the activity on the inside as you're

596
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:15,480
walking by on the walkway.

597
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:23,440
And you can see in the back right there
that we have the First National Bank.

598
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:28,960
We've imported that into our models. And
you can see that in relationship to the

599
00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:33,599
Heights, it is very similar. Um, and
that's right across the street from our

600
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:39,200
public plaza as well as, you know, this
building fronts on that public plaza as

601
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:44,000
well. So now this is now turned around
and and this is an image from that that

602
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:49,359
that bank and from Center Street. And
you can see the the road that we've

603
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:54,559
created here that really uses the same
materiality. We use ballards and and

604
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:59,839
different color treatments to to denote
where the driving area is and where the

605
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:04,240
pedestrian realm is. But during festival
times, during public events, you can

606
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:08,720
close that street down and it becomes an
extension of that. That's how you get an

607
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:14,640
even larger area for those kinds of
events. on a on a weekend, you could

608
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:19,440
have um a line of uh food trucks sitting
there activating that public plaza,

609
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:24,079
which a lot of downtowns have. You can
also see that we've added a pavilion

610
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:32,400
located at the end. We think that this
is a great opportunity uh for music, for

611
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:35,839
sound to really enthral and activate not
only Liberty Center, but the whole

612
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:40,400
downtown area with that kind of
activity.

613
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:45,280
And then you can also see the walkway on
the right. This actually creates that

614
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:50,480
conclusion in some ways or that center
area that activates that walkway. It

615
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,599
allows for an area that somebody could
walk to the public plaza and then walk

616
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,440
back.
>> I think this is phase one.

617
00:52:55,359 --> 00:53:02,160
» And then you can also see phase one
located there um in the rendering which

618
00:52:59,839 --> 00:53:07,119
is where the liquor store and uh and the
bakery is. So you can see that does sit

619
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:11,280
higher on the site because it is one
story higher along South State Street

620
00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:15,599
and you can see the heights of that are
relative to the heights that we have

621
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:21,440
proposed for for our new buildings in
the rear of the site.

622
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:26,240
So that concludes our presentation for
tonight. It gives you a great overview

623
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:31,760
of what we are proposing, the vision
that we are proposing here. And we

624
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:36,800
really are very excited to bring this to
an area of your downtown that needs a

625
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:40,400
little inspiration. And we believe that
this is the correct inspiration for the

626
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:45,119
right time and the architecture that
that follows. So we really welcome you

627
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:50,520
to downtown living in New Town Burough
and we think that this vision is that.

628
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,520
Thank you so much.

629
00:53:51,807 --> 00:53:53,827
» [applause]

630
00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:07,440
» Um the next and uh final presenter would
be uh our planner, John Kennedy. Uh John

631
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:13,760
is a longtime municipal planner. Uh he
represents many municipalities in Bucks

632
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:19,520
and Montgomery counties and um he and I
have collaborated on multiple projects

633
00:54:15,839 --> 00:54:25,440
on the private side as well. And I
thought this particular assignment was

634
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:31,440
tailor made for John because um he does
a lot of work with other uh developing

635
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:38,000
or redeveloping burrows such as Hatboro.
Um we're also working on another project

636
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:44,480
in in Doylestown. And uh the task that
John had was to try to develop a

637
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:49,520
framework for which um a municipality
could consider a project that uh David

638
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:53,920
and Mike just described uh and
recognizing the inherent limitations of

639
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:58,240
the split zoning that exists today on
the site. part of the site. It's, as we

640
00:54:56,319 --> 00:55:07,040
all know, it's almost nine acres, but
it's owned town center and VR2, village

641
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:13,280
village center, too. Um, and neither of
those individually uh are zoning

642
00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:20,000
districts that are easily accommodated
by a project like this. So John's task

643
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:25,760
was to identify a overlay that we've
called, as I indicated a few minutes

644
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:30,960
ago, uh the uh greenway
uh redevelopment overlay as a possible

645
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:35,520
vehicle for to consider something like
this. So I'd like John to talk about the

646
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:40,000
ordinance. We submitted that draft
ordinance with the sketch that u we made

647
00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:44,559
the formal submission of a couple weeks
back. So like John to provide some

648
00:55:42,319 --> 00:55:49,359
planning concepts why he considered it,
what values and benefits we think it

649
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:54,119
serves. Uh so you can consider that as
you consider the other elements of the

650
00:55:51,119 --> 00:55:54,119
project.

651
00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:02,640
Thank you. Uh my name is John Kennedy.
I'm the principal of Kennedy Associates

652
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:06,720
Planners and Landes Consultants.
Uh just to briefly give you a little bit

653
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:11,119
of my background, I have been a
professional planner for 46 years. I

654
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:17,200
have had my own consulting firm for the
last 36 years. Uh we work for a wide

655
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:24,240
variety of private developers,
nonprofits, and also we have municipal

656
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:29,599
clients. Um currently I am the planning
consultant for Lansdale Burough. Uh also

657
00:56:26,799 --> 00:56:34,880
the planning consultant for Hatboro. In
the past I've I also worked with uh

658
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:40,799
Amler Burough, with Richland Township,
Abington Township. uh typically in those

659
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:48,000
cases on special projects
when um in and in addition to that uh I

660
00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:52,319
have also spent 26 years serving on two
planning commissions, one in Lansdale

661
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:58,559
Burough and one in Lower Southford
Township. Um 12 years in in Lansdale, 14

662
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:03,920
years in Lower Salford. So I have a
pretty good understanding of both sides

663
00:57:00,319 --> 00:57:09,440
of the table and how things work.
uh Jim brought me in and Ed brought me

664
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:14,640
in to uh take a look at the plan and
review the existing ordinance and some

665
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:20,960
of the existing planning documents uh of
the bureau. So we started as we often do

666
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:26,319
by looking at the existing districts and
then we go on to the comprehensive plan

667
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:31,760
and I am glad to see that you have
recently updated your comprehensive plan

668
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:37,680
in uh 22.
uh not all townships and burrows are

669
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:44,640
that uh prompt at renewing their
comprehensive plan. So kudos for that.

670
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:50,640
Um when I started looking at this, I I
in talking to the whole team, I realized

671
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:57,359
that uh there had been quite a bit of of
input and thought put into this this

672
00:57:53,200 --> 00:58:05,760
plan. and and Jim uh does care very much
about uh the way New Town looks and the

673
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:11,440
downtown area. And so um we started
looking at different ways that we might

674
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:16,799
be able to implement this proposed plan.
And like most things, there's more than

675
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:21,680
one way to do that. Um, probably the the
typical way that most people might

676
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:27,440
approach this would be to provoke uh,
excuse me, propose uh, some kind of text

677
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:32,799
amendment on the underlying zoning.
Unfortunately, in this case, we have two

678
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:38,400
zoning districts, the TC and the B2. And
the downside to that would be it starts

679
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:42,720
to then affect other properties in the
bureau that have that same zoning

680
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:49,760
district. So that may not be the best
way to approach it. Uh another thing we

681
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:53,680
could do way we could uh implement the
proposed plan would be to make an

682
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:59,839
application to the zoning hearing board
and we would have a long list of

683
00:58:56,079 --> 00:59:03,520
variances that we would need. Uh
however, my own opinion, I'm not an

684
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:09,119
attorney, but I don't think that that
would be successful in this case because

685
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:14,880
of the high legal bar that we need to uh
overcome for variances and and obviously

686
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:20,799
the use does have the property does have
a a use due to the fact that it has an

687
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:27,440
approved plan on it. So, I don't know
that that would be the best path either.

688
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:33,839
So, we started to talk about an overlay
uh district, which I know that you do

689
00:59:31,119 --> 00:59:37,760
not have many overlays. I believe only
one, just a flood plane overlay

690
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:42,720
district, which is actually very common.
Uh many municipalities use overlays for

691
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:49,280
flood planes, deep slopes, and riparian
corridors. Um but I actually utilize

692
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:55,760
overlays for many, many different types
of projects. Uh we utilize them in

693
00:59:51,920 --> 01:00:02,880
Lansdale Burrow. We utilize them uh in
Hatboro quite a bit. Uh and in many of

694
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:08,319
the other projects that uh I work on uh
we do use overlays. One of the

695
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:12,960
advantages of it in um in my opinion is
that we're not changing the underlying

696
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:18,480
zoning map. It all stays the same. The
regulations stay the same. All you're

697
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:23,359
really doing is you're applying
uh you're you're giving the land owner

698
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:29,040
another development option on that piece
of land. So, it sits on top of the

699
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:33,599
existing zoning and you could develop it
either under the existing zoning or you

700
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:37,440
could develop it under the overlay. One
thing you don't get to do is pick and

701
01:00:35,359 --> 01:00:41,520
choose which regulations you want to do.
We get people doing that occasionally in

702
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:45,440
Landdale where they'll they'll say I'll
take this from the business district and

703
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:52,400
this from the downtown overlay district.
Um but you cannot do that. Um, so

704
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:57,599
looking at the the work that uh Dave and
Michael have produced and going and and

705
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:04,240
visiting the site and walking around the
town, uh, I really think that this is

706
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:09,119
probably the the best way to be able to
solve this this little bit of a puzzle

707
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:14,480
in being able to implement a project
such as this uh, on a site like this

708
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:18,720
where you have two different uh, zoning
districts. uh but we need to be able to

709
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:25,040
bring them together so that we can have
one coherent project.

710
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:30,160
So while there are uh two different
zoning districts, that said,

711
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:35,839
those two zoning districts are not
really that far apart. They they may be

712
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:39,200
far apart in your minds. I I get that.
But I've worked on sites where, you

713
01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:45,440
know, half of it's R3 and the other
half's industrial. So we don't have that

714
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:51,359
here. If you examine the the TC district
and then you examine the um the gateway

715
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:55,920
district, the B2,
many of the same uses are still allowed.

716
01:01:53,839 --> 01:01:59,520
It's just it there's the allowance for
residential uses and the allowance for

717
01:01:57,599 --> 01:02:03,359
non-residential uses. They're just
regulated in different ways, which was

718
01:02:01,839 --> 01:02:08,559
one of the main reasons why I thought
that an overlay is ideal for this

719
01:02:05,839 --> 01:02:14,160
particular site.
I became even more convinced after I

720
01:02:11,119 --> 01:02:17,839
dove into the comprehensive plan because
what

721
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:23,920
jumped out at me and rather surprised me
is the fact that uh this project has the

722
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:29,119
ability to
uh align with many many of the goal

723
01:02:26,799 --> 01:02:33,599
statements in your comprehensive plan
which I was a little bit surprised at

724
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:40,960
that one project could kind of check so
many boxes in a comp plan.

725
01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:44,799
Um, and many of those are uh laid out in
the intent statement. I'm not going to

726
01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:48,640
go through this line by line because I
know you have a a large agenda, but I'm

727
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:53,520
just going to briefly go through it and
then I will more than happy to answer

728
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:57,760
any questions you have. Uh, but in the
intent district, I do want to just spend

729
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:03,760
a moment there. The intent statement,
uh, we we have five um, eight different

730
01:03:00,319 --> 01:03:07,599
intent statements. Many of these are are
taken directly from your comprehensive

731
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:13,520
plan or they reference to the
comprehensive plan. They also um many of

732
01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:19,920
these are taken from another document
which is a little bit older uh 2011,

733
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:23,599
the New Town Creek Wershed Conservation
Plan prepared by the Heritage

734
01:03:21,839 --> 01:03:28,079
Conservancy.
And that was a really interesting plan

735
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:34,079
because it gets into
um many other topics other than just the

736
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:38,240
creek itself and the watershed and the
hydraology of it all. It actually does

737
01:03:36,319 --> 01:03:43,839
get into
um things like parking, land uses,

738
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:50,640
housing. uh I was actually quite
surprised and once again many of these

739
01:03:47,359 --> 01:03:56,799
goals or recommendations in that case uh
in that study uh also do align with this

740
01:03:54,640 --> 01:04:01,920
particular project and I think there's
the uh ability to maybe check some of

741
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:07,680
those boxes off too.
So um basically I will go through and at

742
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:10,880
least read these. Um the first one is to
implement the recommendations of the new

743
01:04:09,359 --> 01:04:16,079
town bureau comprehensive plan
specifically core recommendations for

744
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:20,480
sustainability, mobility, resilience and
balance.

745
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:24,160
Also to establish and preserve a
greenway ribbon along the New Town

746
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:30,640
Creek,
to redevelop underutilized

747
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:37,039
sites along the New Town Creek,
to establish a greater variety of uses

748
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:41,920
to complement local burrow businesses.
to provide a greater variety of housing

749
01:04:39,119 --> 01:04:46,400
types within the burrow
to provide additional community

750
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:52,480
gathering areas in the burrow
to create pedestrian connections with

751
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:56,000
nearby recreational facilities which was
one thing that actually was not

752
01:04:53,680 --> 01:05:00,319
mentioned and that is the uh bridge
connection to the park over in New

753
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:04,880
Township.
Uh and then finally to provide access

754
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:10,559
from the burough's commercial core to
burrow recreation facilities, both the

755
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:16,000
the greenway itself and then the park uh
further south.

756
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:20,319
Um the way the overlay is structured is
what we call a mapped overlay. There's

757
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:25,520
actually a couple of different types. Uh
you can either define an area on your

758
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:31,520
zoning map just like you have for other
district uh districts.

759
01:05:27,839 --> 01:05:37,359
uh or they also sometimes overlays are
done uh where it would apply on an

760
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:42,640
entire district say on the whole R3
district or something. In this case

761
01:05:40,079 --> 01:05:45,880
we're talking about specific area that
is mapped.

762
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:58,880
Um in order to qualify for this um there
must be a minimum gross tract area of 8

763
01:05:54,880 --> 01:06:04,720
acres. There must be a minimum of 1,000
feet of frontage along the new town

764
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:09,920
creek and the track must have 300 feet
of frontage on State Street. So that's

765
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:14,000
what you use to really tighten it down
and

766
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:19,920
really just apply it to this one area.
If any of those

767
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:23,280
uh standards were tweaked, it may apply
to other properties, but when I looked

768
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:28,240
around, I could not find any that it
would apply to. the standards would have

769
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:31,599
to be radically reduced uh like going
from a thousand feet of frontage on the

770
01:06:29,839 --> 01:06:36,640
creek to 300 feet of frontage on the
creek. And I don't I don't know that uh

771
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:41,920
certainly we are not interested in that
and I'm not sure that the burrow is but

772
01:06:38,559 --> 01:06:48,000
you could do that at your own uh leisure
if you wanted to in the future.

773
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:54,079
Um in terms of uses uh they're laid out
here. It's a a variety of residential

774
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:59,280
which are multif family uh dwellings,
apartment style units and then a wide

775
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:03,520
variety of uh non-residential. The
reason for that is that as some of the

776
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:08,079
spaces may come up, we want to make sure
that there are a lot of different uses

777
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:11,599
that could go in those spaces.
Uh we then get into the development

778
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:19,440
regulations
uh on page two which provide once again

779
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:24,400
the tracked area. It regulates mix uh
gets into the mixture of non-residential

780
01:07:21,839 --> 01:07:33,599
and residential. Also uh there is an
open space requirement.

781
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:38,426
Uh 25% of a GRRO tract uh must be uh
remain in open space. In addition to the

782
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:42,480
open space regulations just
[clears throat] the simple percentage,

783
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:48,160
there's also further refinement of the
open space standards. For instance, 70%

784
01:07:45,599 --> 01:07:52,880
of the minimum required open space must
be designated as a public greenway along

785
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:59,119
the creek. We we want to make sure that
you get the the the walkway along the

786
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,839
creek as opposed to any kind of bait and
switch. That's why they're all

787
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:07,039
specifically written into this
ordinance.

788
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:11,440
Uh in addition, 10% of the minimum
required open space shall be improved

789
01:08:09,359 --> 01:08:17,040
community open space. This is something
that I'm very big on. Um, I know in

790
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:20,880
Bucks County it's very popular to say
we're going to take 50% or 60% of the

791
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:26,159
land and preserve it as open space. And
you got yourself a nice feel, but this

792
01:08:23,839 --> 01:08:31,440
is a burrow. You have people who use the
streets. It's active. You want to have

793
01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:36,159
improved open space. Uh, it doesn't need
to be huge because improved open space

794
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:42,400
is much more expensive than natural open
space. But once again, we want it in the

795
01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:46,000
ordinance which is why it's here. Uh and
then we also have limitations on the

796
01:08:44,239 --> 01:08:50,960
amount of impervious surface that can be
within the open space.

797
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:56,960
Uh below that we have some standards for
the greenway in terms of the uh width

798
01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:04,040
standards accessibility.
Uh and then at the bottom of page three

799
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:04,040
we get into dimensional regulations.

800
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:14,880
We uh
dimensional uh standards are on page

801
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:20,480
four. Uh and then at the bottom are
design standards. Uh and then we have

802
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:24,880
design standards for buildings, street
access drives,

803
01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:29,199
uh parking, off- streetet loading and
trash, streetscape and streetscape

804
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:34,560
amenities.
And then there are uh at the very end of

805
01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:38,159
it there is the uh statement that the
the site is also in the historic

806
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:43,920
district which I'm sure many of you are
aware of and those regulations do have

807
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:49,520
to be followed. So in kind of a quick
nutshell that's the ordinance that we

808
01:09:45,839 --> 01:09:54,480
have proposed. I think that
uh it's a way that you could

809
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:58,480
uh implement this development.
Personally, from a planning standpoint,

810
01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:03,120
I think it's a wonderful opportunity.
When I go out there and look at the

811
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:07,840
site, I look at the creek and quite
frankly, it needs some love. It really

812
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:13,679
does. Not just fixed up, but also people
that will use it. People that will walk

813
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:18,719
down the the the walkway and will cross
over the creek into the the park in New

814
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:23,760
Township.
And I think it's something that also

815
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:29,679
would provide some uh
additional um positive impact for the

816
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:34,320
local businesses. I was especially
struck by the uh the one comment I think

817
01:10:32,719 --> 01:10:38,880
it was in the comprehensive plan where
they

818
01:10:36,159 --> 01:10:42,640
you want open space in the downtown, but
you want it to be accessible to the main

819
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:47,360
commercial areas. And I think that
that's actually a great idea. It's sort

820
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:52,800
of unusual, but part of it is because
you've got this unusual uh landscape.

821
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:59,840
The fact that you have this creek that
is right smack up against your downtown.

822
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:05,280
And uh my own personal feeling is it is
a real opportunity. Uh this is our first

823
01:11:03,199 --> 01:11:09,199
presentation. Obviously, some of these
things are going to get tweaked and

824
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:14,239
changed a little bit, but uh we welcome
your input and welcome your questions.

825
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,239
And that that concludes our
presentation.

826
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:27,840
» Uh John's right. Um that's the extent
tonight of the formal uh presentation.

827
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:32,560
Obviously, we would solicit any comments
uh that anyone would have about anything

828
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:39,360
you saw or heard this evening.
recognizing it's a lot to digest in one

829
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:44,640
meeting but um it's a important first
step for us and I'm sure u as well for

830
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:49,360
council as well as the other
stakeholders um in terms of the process

831
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:54,000
that we at least the way I think about
it um

832
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:58,480
our thought would be our next step would
be to return to the planning commission

833
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:04,320
to continue the conversation we started
in November

834
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:08,000
um and to continue to flesh out the
information that we presented to you

835
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:11,760
this evening, which uh planning
commission hasn't seen anything since

836
01:12:09,679 --> 01:12:17,280
November. So, some of what we presented
tonight might be somewhat new or

837
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:21,440
different to them. Um, one of the, uh,
encouragements we did receive from your

838
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:26,960
planning commission in November was to
reach out to the community, make sure

839
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:32,640
others uh, are consulted that have both
in a direct and maybe a less direct

840
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:38,719
impact, which we have, I think, done a
better job than we did pre-Nvember

841
01:12:36,159 --> 01:12:44,480
uh, when, uh, some of the planning
commission folks thought we had not done

842
01:12:40,719 --> 01:12:49,440
enough uh, listening to other community
segments. So I think we've done much

843
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:53,920
better since November to do that. Um and
we will continue to do that with any

844
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:59,120
feedback you provide us and as we go
through the process any other feedback

845
01:12:55,520 --> 01:13:03,920
we receive. So um I know there are
people here in the audience that may or

846
01:13:00,719 --> 01:13:09,360
may not want to speak. One unrepresented
group uh that's not here tonight that

847
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:16,159
I'm authorized to report to you is the
phase one condominium unit owners with

848
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:21,679
whom we've had a lot of engagement uh
over multiple issues not just uh what

849
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:29,120
would phase two look like but also
addressing lingering issues they had as

850
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:35,280
residents there today which Jim in large
measure has addressed But none of the

851
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:40,800
residents that reside there today could
attend tonight. But I am authorized to

852
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:46,000
tell you that there is unanimous support
for what you've seen and heard this

853
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:49,360
evening by that small group. Now, I'm
sure they will be able to come at

854
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:54,640
subsequent meetings to comment as well,
but wanted you to they wanted me to

855
01:13:51,679 --> 01:14:00,159
share that with you tonight as you think
about what you've seen and heard. So,

856
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:04,719
uh, David and and Michael and John, uh,
can answer any other questions and Jim

857
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:09,679
answer any other questions you may have
tonight. Uh, and hopefully you would

858
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:14,080
offer folks in the audience if they
choose to to speak good or positively or

859
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:18,360
otherwise about what they've seen and
heard tonight. Thanks.

860
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:45,360
Thank you. Um, first of all, uh, to Jim
Worthington and the whole team, thank

861
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:49,120
you. It was a very wellorganized
presentation and we appreciate the

862
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:54,640
thoughtfulness in terms of how you put
it together and the thoughtfulness in

863
01:14:51,520 --> 01:15:00,080
which uh that you um have have shown in
terms of developing the plan. Um I have

864
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:04,960
a question I think maybe best addressed
to the architects with respect to um

865
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:10,480
maybe if you could summarize what the
differences are between this plan and

866
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:14,560
the plan that you had presented
previously to the planning commission.

867
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:21,120
Was that's mostly architectural or were
there site plan changes as well?

868
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:25,280
» You know, it's funny. I just asked Ed if
I could just kind of simplify this and

869
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:29,600
you just asked the question I was going
to answer, but he'll give you more

870
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:34,640
detail. If you really want to simplify
this plan, [clears throat]

871
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:41,120
the Staple View planet, just so we're
clear, had 88 apartments, but they also

872
01:15:37,679 --> 01:15:49,600
had a restaurant pad and other retail.
Our our plan is 125 apartments. So, it's

873
01:15:45,679 --> 01:15:52,400
really 37 apartments different, but not
all the mess that creates all the

874
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:54,000
traffic.
>> Yeah.

875
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,520
» All the parking problems.
>> Can I just interrupt you for a sec?

876
01:15:55,120 --> 01:16:01,600
Sure.
>> Because uh I def I definitely appreciate

877
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:07,760
that difference. Um and I I'm familiar
with that plan. I was more focusing on

878
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:11,840
the previous concept plan that you guys
had presented to the planning commission

879
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,760
that you had presented to the planning
commission.

880
01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:15,760
» Our concept that we presented to the
commission.

881
01:16:14,159 --> 01:16:20,560
» Okay. Well, can I just finish my thought
and then he'll answer that. So I'm sorry

882
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:23,840
I misre but I I think for the audience I
because you see hear all this stuff you

883
01:16:22,159 --> 01:16:29,760
think wow what's the difference between
the two? It was what that I had said

884
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:33,199
earlier that it it's a it's really just
getting rid of all the retail and the

885
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:37,760
restaurant pads and everything that
creates all the traffic and it just you

886
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:43,280
know it Allan had a lot of apartments
88. We have 125. We don't have that many

887
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:49,679
more than him but we eliminate all the
problems with the off-site parking the

888
01:16:46,239 --> 01:16:56,080
1,700 cars per week, 85,000 cars per
year. We uh eliminate the uh we we have

889
01:16:53,360 --> 01:17:00,560
um more private uh public parking for
all the people right on center ABS so

890
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:05,280
they can walk right into town. And you
know, of course, we've expanded the uh

891
01:17:02,719 --> 01:17:10,159
the the uh plaza space three times
bigger. We've enhanced the the walkway

892
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:14,080
trails. We have a lot of public uh
things like the street lights and things

893
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:19,120
like that that are surrounding that area
that we're going to be fixing. But I

894
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:23,360
will tell you I believe pretty strongly
there isn't a whole lot of change from

895
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:27,760
what we originally came with to what we
get because one of the the f things I

896
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:32,719
directed the architect I said we're not
coming in with a plan where we're saying

897
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:37,679
hey let's ask for the moon and let's
negotiate down. I'm not into that. I

898
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:44,000
wanted to come in with a plan that we
can make it work for everybody but is

899
01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:50,480
not over the top that that doesn't need
to be, you know, negotiated from this

900
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:54,880
number down. I I'm that's not my style.
We came in with the minimum we could do

901
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:59,120
to make this plan work, not just for us,
but more so for the for the town. I

902
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:02,239
think you're going to see we haven't we
haven't changed much of anything. I

903
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:06,000
mean, people told me come in for with
200 apartments. I I'm not doing that.

904
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:09,199
We're just not playing those games.
We're going to come in with what we

905
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:15,360
think and it isn't a heck of a lot more
than what Allan had ironically. Yet,

906
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:18,239
it's and God bless him. I love him. It's
a far greater plan for this community.

907
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:24,880
So, go ahead.
>> Thank you. So, as Jim alluded to, that's

908
01:18:21,679 --> 01:18:28,800
my favorite word tonight. Um, we uh did
not change too much. It's more

909
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:32,880
advancement of the architecture. um
advancement of some of the details that

910
01:18:30,480 --> 01:18:36,640
you see in the renderings as well as
some of the balconies and those kinds of

911
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:40,640
architectural elements on the
architecture. Those are the advancements

912
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:46,159
that we've made in terms of the
locations of the buildings um where we

913
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:49,520
have the main components of the plan
that has all remained consistent with

914
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:53,679
what we presented to the planning
commission in November. There has been

915
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:58,239
some advancements in the overall
landscaping design. So certain things

916
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:02,480
have been advanced further as we work
through the design process but

917
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:07,640
everything in terms of the components
the locations of those components have

918
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,640
remained consistent.

919
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:15,440
» Thanks that that that was my question.
Now one really sort of simple really

920
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:19,920
basic question in the uh the
illustrations the brick look brown and

921
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:23,600
you had mentioned gray. So, um, is it
just a matter of how it comes out on the

922
01:19:21,679 --> 01:19:27,520
screen or what is it that you're using?
>> So, we're proposing a beige brick. Um,

923
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:32,640
so I I thought that I had said beige. If
I had if I'm mistaken, I'm sorry, but um

924
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:38,800
it's it's going to be a beige brick,
which I think is very elegant um for for

925
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:42,159
the for the building. It's brownish. It
has some hues of different things. And

926
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:45,280
during the planning commission process,
we can bring in some samples to show

927
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:50,159
kind of the selection that we're
choosing. We think it works well with a

928
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:55,040
lot of the downtown uh buildings along
South State Street um that have the the

929
01:19:52,719 --> 01:19:59,120
variety of brick color in terms of some
yellows, some browns, some grays. We

930
01:19:57,360 --> 01:20:05,199
think that this matches rather well.
When we were at Harb, we had proposed

931
01:20:01,679 --> 01:20:09,679
several red or uh burgundy uh colored
bricks and we advised that they would

932
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:13,040
rather see uh the beige palette as
something that we do consistent on all

933
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:18,400
of the buildings.
>> Thank you. Any

934
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:23,120
other questions or comments from
council?

935
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:28,159
» I do. I have one. Um, so the uh your
your sketch plan indicates that you are

936
01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:33,239
developing a TND. Are you still
anticipating that you're following our

937
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,239
TND ordinance?

938
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:47,440
Thi this would take some elements from
the TND ordinance uh but primarily we

939
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:51,040
are drawing everything from the proposed
GRO overlay district.

940
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:55,280
» Right.
>> So that that leads me to my second

941
01:20:52,800 --> 01:21:00,400
question. What are the major differences
between the GRRO and the TND ordinance

942
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:04,480
knowing that the majority of your
project is actually in the V2 district

943
01:21:02,719 --> 01:21:09,679
that there's very little building most
of the building is on that side which

944
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:15,280
does permit the TND
>> there there's uh differences in terms of

945
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:19,199
the types of units and the mixture uh if
I recall I'd actually have to have my

946
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:24,719
full notes because we did look at that
carefully um there's there's not

947
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:30,880
necessar necessarily big differences
between these two districts. Um,

948
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:35,600
so I'm I'm
>> so my I took a quick look at your o your

949
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:40,239
overlay
>> and it appears to me that it is very

950
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:45,040
similar to our TND with the exception of
the sizes of the buildings that they are

951
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:49,679
taller, they are longer and they have
more units than our TND ordinance and

952
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:54,320
our regular ordinance would permit. and
that the the mixeduse element which was

953
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:58,639
very important when the TND ordinance
was put together seems to be lost in

954
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:05,440
this development.
>> Well, I I think one of the things is

955
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:09,520
that this is uh the the the
one of the differences between the

956
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:15,840
proposed ordinance and uh the previous
plan and and the existing zoning is it's

957
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:21,360
encouraging more commercial than might
be able to be leased or sold. Uh that's

958
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:26,719
that's just a trend that we're seeing
everywhere uh across this state and

959
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:32,480
actually across the country. Um so it's
pulling back on some of the commercial

960
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:38,400
uh what is more important um and we
actually see this a lot in um well

961
01:22:35,679 --> 01:22:43,040
really in both Lansdale and Hapo uh
where the business owners they just want

962
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:48,960
more households. It's as simple as that.
They want more households to support the

963
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:53,280
local businesses. you can add uh just a
a little bit of commercial. Even then,

964
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:58,000
it's going to depend on its actual
location because right now we're seeing

965
01:22:55,679 --> 01:23:01,239
a lot of empty commercial spaces of all
different varieties.

966
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,360
» Thanks.

967
01:23:05,440 --> 01:23:14,320
» I do want to comment on the hype
briefly. Um,

968
01:23:12,159 --> 01:23:18,960
one of the things that uh I think it
might have been Dave mentioned this

969
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:24,080
which is very important and a lot of
people cavalerely throw this around and

970
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:29,840
that is the idea of why don't you put
all the parking spaces underneath the

971
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:34,719
building. That is incredibly expensive
to do. And so in order to accomplish

972
01:23:32,719 --> 01:23:38,560
that
the developer see needs to make it

973
01:23:36,719 --> 01:23:43,920
worthwhile. I mean, just to be
completely honest about it, this plan

974
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:48,480
would look completely different.
Even if it had less units, but you put

975
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:53,040
all the parking on the surface, would
not be nearly as attractive.

976
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:57,440
And so,
you do have to accommodate that within

977
01:23:55,040 --> 01:24:01,360
the architecture. And I think that's a
very important point to make.

978
01:23:59,679 --> 01:24:05,600
Well, I'm certainly sympathetic to that
and and I appreciate that a lot of the

979
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:08,320
parking is being hidden because we are
trying to get away from seas of asphalt.

980
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:13,760
Yeah.
>> Um and I understand that and I know that

981
01:24:10,159 --> 01:24:19,600
you have to balance the obviously the
economics of building something.

982
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:23,920
» Um and as been told to us for years as
this property has been out there to be

983
01:24:21,679 --> 01:24:27,679
developed that you're trying to figure
out how you can afford to do it by doing

984
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:31,679
this or that or something else. And I I
certainly understand that. I guess the

985
01:24:29,199 --> 01:24:35,840
end product though is what the town will
have and so that that's important. So I

986
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,080
don't want to go into a lengthy
discussion about it now. I was just

987
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:41,920
curious to get your feedback.
>> Just want to make sure that that the

988
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:44,960
point was made because it is very very
important.

989
01:24:42,719 --> 01:24:49,639
» Sure.
>> Any additional comments or questions

990
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,639
from council?

991
01:24:50,159 --> 01:24:59,040
I just want to say it's it's very
encouraging and um I look forward to

992
01:24:55,520 --> 01:25:02,880
working with this through and there's
been debates back and forth on a lot of

993
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:08,080
issues and I don't know I think we can
come to an agreement and really make

994
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:12,480
this thing work.
>> Thanks Gail. So, um, Greg and I talked

995
01:25:10,719 --> 01:25:16,719
about, you know, you brought up process.
So, we're going to take, um, the rest of

996
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:20,639
the next few weeks of March for council
to review not only the proposed text

997
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:25,360
amendments you said sent, but also our
engineers review of those. Um, and then

998
01:25:23,199 --> 01:25:29,440
we plan on, uh, discussing in our April
cycle at our work session. Um, moving

999
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:34,400
forward to sending this to planning
commission for additional re review or,

1000
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:38,239
uh, going back to you um, with, you
know, our thoughts on on the proposal

1001
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:42,320
and what needs to change, etc., etc.,
before we send anything forward. So, we

1002
01:25:40,639 --> 01:25:46,760
plan on having that on our next cycle in
April.

1003
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,760
» Okay.

1004
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:52,400
» You have any other questions or comments
for us?

1005
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:55,440
» Unless you're going to not solicit
public comment. I think there are people

1006
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:58,080
came tonight wanting to speak. So, I
don't know if that's appropriate now or

1007
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:02,480
do you want to wait? But
>> I mean, we typically don't um unless

1008
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:07,480
we're making a motion, but I I'm okay
with that if anyone would like to speak.

1009
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:20,159
Good evening. I'll keep this uh brief
and first of all, thank you for your

1010
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:24,159
service. I know that um these late
nights are are not something for

1011
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:29,360
everyone, so appreciate that. I'm Dave
Marcola. Uh I own three uh businesses

1012
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:34,239
here in the burrow uh in the real estate
industry, commercial, residential, and

1013
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:38,560
uh estate sales. and I also serve as the
president of the New Town Business

1014
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:42,800
Association for the past six years. Um,
I just wanted to give a few comments.

1015
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:48,080
You know, over the years I've been
involved in New Town, lived or worked in

1016
01:26:45,199 --> 01:26:51,920
the community for the past 26 years. Um,
I uh had the opportunity to run First

1017
01:26:50,639 --> 01:26:55,760
Night New Town for anybody that
remembers that back in the day on New

1018
01:26:53,360 --> 01:27:02,000
Year's Eve. Uh, currently our parade,
our holiday parade and uh our car show

1019
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:05,760
and welcome day. And so I can say that
there's a lot of excitement from the

1020
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:10,800
folks who put those events on to have
space like a plaza, to have space that

1021
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:14,400
doesn't require costly inconveniences of
closing roads. And so we're excited

1022
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:18,400
about that. I also wanted to share that
we gave uh Jim and his team the

1023
01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:24,560
opportunity to share this plan with our
members. We're over 300 business members

1024
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:28,400
strong at our January member meeting and
uh it was very wellreceived. I know

1025
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:31,440
Linda, as you heard, spent a lot of time
on the streets, uh, talking to

1026
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:36,080
businesses as well, hundreds of
businesses. And so, I've reviewed all of

1027
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:40,480
that. I've reviewed the original plans,
and I reviewed the plan that you saw

1028
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:45,040
here tonight. And I do think that, you
know, over the 26ome years that I've

1029
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:49,600
been here, we've all seen change, right?
We've all seen a lot of progress. And,

1030
01:27:47,679 --> 01:27:53,760
uh, we've also seen a lot of things done
really well. On the residential front, I

1031
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,679
can't tell you how many times a week I
tell people, unfortunately, no, there's

1032
01:27:55,199 --> 01:28:00,800
just nowhere here to live. On the
commercial front, I can't tell you how

1033
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:04,960
many times I tell people, you probably
can't afford that commercial rent in New

1034
01:28:02,719 --> 01:28:09,520
Town. All of that means we're doing
something really well. We're a desirable

1035
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:13,600
community that people want to be in.
They want to be a part of. I live right

1036
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:18,080
now, um, sad to admit, in Pennington,
New Jersey, as I'm rehabbing a a 200-y

1037
01:28:16,480 --> 01:28:22,880
old farmhouse and look forward to coming
back to New Town. But every day my car

1038
01:28:20,719 --> 01:28:29,280
is in New Town. Everything I do is in
New Town. Work to gym to eat to you name

1039
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:32,400
it. So, um, and that's because it's the
perfect balance. And I think that's

1040
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:37,360
something Julia you mentioned about
striking the balance. I think the time

1041
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:41,440
that's been spent reviewing and the the
efforts of the experts. Um, I think you

1042
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:44,560
guys know your job obviously, but I
think I feel like myself as well that I

1043
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:48,960
would agree that I think we're in a
place where a lot of those things that

1044
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:54,480
come with progress that are
unfortunately challenges um have been

1045
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:57,440
met headon with this current plan. Um, I
don't think we'll ever have perfect.

1046
01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:02,000
There is no such thing, but I like what
I see and I wanted to just share my

1047
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:05,520
support from my community here in New
Town. Thank you.

1048
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:10,000
» Thank you very much.
>> Is there anyone else who'd like to

1049
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:10,000
speak, please?

1050
01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:22,159
Good evening. I'm Lisa Flmer. I'm the
executive director of Lower Bucks County

1051
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:27,760
Chamber of Commerce and we recently
moved into the stocking works um this

1052
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:32,000
past year and um we're very excited to
be a part of New Town Burrow uh not just

1053
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:39,520
for our membership but also for the
businesses that we represent and the

1054
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:45,920
burrow itself is well known for so many
various cultural activities in addition

1055
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:53,199
to the niche that you have of feeling
like a hometown town and what Jim has

1056
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:57,360
done and I've I've worked with Jim when
I served on the Middletown Township

1057
01:29:54,880 --> 01:30:04,639
Board of Supervisors so in the early
2000s and he ran our Middletown Country

1058
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:10,639
Club. He doesn't do anything halfway.
He also ensures that he takes into

1059
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:17,360
consideration all of the stakeholders
and their needs and their requirements.

1060
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:21,520
Um so not just the municipalities but
also the businesses. You could see that

1061
01:30:19,199 --> 01:30:27,360
from every single aspect of this plan
completely ditching the former plan to

1062
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:32,400
what he has created now. Taking into
account the hindrances um that would

1063
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:39,360
have you know befell the community but
also ensuring that what he is building

1064
01:30:36,719 --> 01:30:45,280
what he is presenting to this community
blends with this community. It is

1065
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:50,719
aesthetically pleasing. It takes care of
your walkway along the creek to provide

1066
01:30:47,679 --> 01:30:55,760
not only access to nature for the
residents there, but for those that come

1067
01:30:53,199 --> 01:30:59,600
and have business in the community who
decide that they want to dine in the

1068
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:04,000
community in addition to the
entertainment that could reside at the

1069
01:31:02,159 --> 01:31:10,480
pavilion.
I think one of the things that I enjoy

1070
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:15,760
most in my capacity is the number of
residents that will now be a part of

1071
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:21,199
your community that will then frequent
the commercial sector of your community.

1072
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:26,639
That only bodess well for the businesses
along State Street and throughout the

1073
01:31:23,440 --> 01:31:32,480
burrow, but it also bodess well for
their future and their success, which

1074
01:31:29,199 --> 01:31:38,000
then also adds to the value of this
community. this beautiful community that

1075
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:43,280
you continue to create, foster, and
ensure that for generations to come,

1076
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:48,400
they will know exactly the history and
legacy of New Town Burough, not only

1077
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:52,880
maintain it, but sustain it for its
legacy. So, thank you for your time this

1078
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:58,239
evening. I really hope that you consider
this plan in its entirety and bring this

1079
01:31:55,920 --> 01:32:03,920
forth for not only the burough residents
but also the commercial sector and for

1080
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:08,239
the future of the burough. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Would anyone else

1081
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:11,239
like to speak? Please come up to the
podium.

1082
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:22,320
» Hello, my name is Excuse [clears throat]
me. My name is John Monahan. I live at

1083
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:27,760
202 South State Street, so I would be
right across from this building. And I I

1084
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:33,840
just have to tell the board members how
how much better I think this plan is

1085
01:32:30,480 --> 01:32:38,239
than the the plan that was in effect
when I purchased.

1086
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:46,000
I think the the buildings
architecturally the buff brick m u

1087
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:51,840
doesn't imitate but echoes the building
directly across state street on the

1088
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:58,000
corner of pen and also the first uh
national bank of new town building which

1089
01:32:54,560 --> 01:33:05,120
you would see from these buildings and I
think the mixeduse idea sounded good 15

1090
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:10,560
or 20 years ago but really it would not
work in this location. And also, if I

1091
01:33:08,239 --> 01:33:17,760
were a business, if I had a business on
on State or or Sycamore Street, I would

1092
01:33:14,719 --> 01:33:23,040
just like, do I need the competition?
The answer to me would be no. But do I

1093
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:31,520
need customers? The answer would be yes.
And one reason I moved from Pipersville

1094
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:36,400
to this building was I wanted to be in a
place where I could walk to to the

1095
01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:43,840
restaurants and the other businesses
that are right here. And I think you

1096
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:48,080
will find that uh as one of the uh
people stated, you're going to find a

1097
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:53,040
lot of people who are downsizing who
live in New Town or nearby and they go,

1098
01:33:50,639 --> 01:33:57,840
"Yes, I want to I want this, but I don't
want to buy." So the rental, I think,

1099
01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:02,800
also makes a better idea. You may get
younger people who are going to be

1100
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:07,760
renting as well. And there really isn't
that much rental in New Town Burrow. I

1101
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:14,320
go by, I see the Laroo building and a
few others in the small small rentals

1102
01:34:10,719 --> 01:34:20,960
down the street down State Street at 440
State Street, but you don't see all that

1103
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:25,760
much more uh rental space. And also, I
think we need to move ahead on this. And

1104
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:32,080
one more thing is that the speaker who
was talking about the wild flowers,

1105
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:36,719
let's also keep in mind that the bank of
the new town creek is going to be

1106
01:34:34,159 --> 01:34:40,960
improved. It's it's one of the few
places you'll be able to access. In

1107
01:34:39,199 --> 01:34:47,120
fact, I think it's the only place you'll
be able to access uh and walk along New

1108
01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:53,040
Town Creek and it'll be cleaned up. The
rusty shopping carts will be out and

1109
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:58,320
it'll be much nicer. So, I'm also
authorized to speak for the people in

1110
01:34:55,440 --> 01:35:05,280
202 who were unable to attend tonight
because they're away. And uh without

1111
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:10,880
exception, everybody is in favor of this
and would like to move forward as

1112
01:35:07,199 --> 01:35:17,480
expeditiously as possible. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much.

1113
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:17,480
Anyone else, please?

1114
01:35:25,199 --> 01:35:31,920
Hi, my name is uh Jim Wis, 2011 Penn
Street. Um, some of the other people

1115
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:35,600
already mentioned some of the things
that I wanted to talk about, but I've

1116
01:35:34,239 --> 01:35:39,600
been involved with a lot of things in
the community, been around town as much

1117
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:43,840
as anybody doing various things and
working in the community way back when.

1118
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:48,560
We all love Allen and I was on a
committee with Allen probably in year

1119
01:35:45,679 --> 01:35:54,000
2000 where we talked about improving the
creek and the you know doing a creek

1120
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:58,080
walk and here we are 25 years later
we're still talking about doing

1121
01:35:55,360 --> 01:36:02,320
improvements along the creek and an
asset that we have there that we're not

1122
01:35:59,679 --> 01:36:06,800
using. In addition to that, I see five,
six empty buildings around town. I agree

1123
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:10,800
with everybody else that including more
retail down there is probably not the

1124
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:15,040
best
opportunity when we already have vacant

1125
01:36:12,719 --> 01:36:18,400
things and and like the guy said before,
you need clients if you want to have

1126
01:36:16,719 --> 01:36:21,679
retail and and people using those
things. So, I'm also in support of it.

1127
01:36:20,480 --> 01:36:24,880
There's some things that I don't know if
it's going to be phased or not. maybe

1128
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:29,280
this isn't the time to bring it up, but
an important part to me also is that

1129
01:36:26,639 --> 01:36:33,120
public space that's down along the
creek. And I just would like to ensure

1130
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:36,480
that that gets built as part of if there
is any phasing and I don't know if

1131
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:41,040
there's any phasing or not that that is
one of the first phases that's done

1132
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:45,360
because I also think that's an big draw
to to everybody and importance to

1133
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:48,239
everybody. So those couple things I'm in
support traffic is always going to be an

1134
01:36:47,119 --> 01:36:52,480
issue. You're never going to make
everybody happy like somebody else said,

1135
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:56,480
but we need a spark in this town to get
some things rolling in a better

1136
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:59,679
direction and uh I think this will help.
>> Thanks.

1137
01:36:57,360 --> 01:37:04,159
» Thank you very much.
Anyone else?

1138
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:07,400
Okay, thank you gentlemen very much.
>> Thank you.

1139
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:18,320
» Okay, so we're going to move on to
certificates of appropriateness. Chris,

1140
01:37:16,159 --> 01:37:22,880
» thank you.
If it's okay with uh our solicitor and

1141
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:29,840
council, I'd like to group the first
three together. They're all going to be

1142
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:32,800
proposed for um approval.
>> Is that all right?

1143
01:37:30,639 --> 01:37:36,320
» Y.
So I would uh move to follow the

1144
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:39,679
recommendations of the historical
architectural review board and direct

1145
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:43,119
the president of council to sign the
following certificates of

1146
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:46,800
appropriateness thereby approving the
historical appropriateness of the

1147
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:52,639
applications with final approval by the
code enforcement officer. The first

1148
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:58,080
application is COA 2026-9.
It's 159 North State Street and the

1149
01:37:55,760 --> 01:38:01,600
applicant is Mike Hutchinson. The
applicant seeks a certificate of

1150
01:37:59,679 --> 01:38:07,199
appropriateness for the demolition of an
existing shed addition on the back of

1151
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:11,360
the house and an early 20th century shed
at the rear of the property.

1152
01:38:09,827 --> 01:38:16,239
[snorts] Harb recommended approving the
application for demolition, noting that

1153
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:22,360
neither the shed addition nor the rear
shed has architectural nor historic

1154
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:22,360
significance.

1155
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:34,320
Our second application is COA 2026-6
and 20267.

1156
01:38:30,639 --> 01:38:39,840
This is for 105 and 107 North Chancellor
Street. Our applicants are Christopher

1157
01:38:36,639 --> 01:38:43,600
Grimes and Charles and Barbara Lewis.
The applicant seeks a certificate of

1158
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:48,880
appropriateness for repairs to the
shared front porch of this twin house.

1159
01:38:47,440 --> 01:38:54,639
Again, that's both halves of the twin
house. Harb recommended approving both

1160
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:57,920
applications for 105 and 107 North
Chancellor Street with the following

1161
01:38:56,159 --> 01:39:04,000
changes.
The main three posts will be repaired

1162
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:10,719
using Dutchman or epoxy. The railing
will be salvaged if possible or replaced

1163
01:39:07,440 --> 01:39:15,360
in exact kind in terms of proportion and
detailing. The ballusters will be

1164
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:23,280
salvaged. Necessary new ballasters will
be turned to match the existing.

1165
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:28,880
And third, we have COA 2026-8.
This is 110 East Center Avenue. And this

1166
01:39:26,159 --> 01:39:32,639
applicant is Peggy and Doug Levvin. The
applicant seeks to seeks a certificate

1167
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:38,000
of appropriateness for alterations to
the rear porch. Harb recommended

1168
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:41,520
approving the application as presented.
>> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a

1169
01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:43,760
second?
>> Second.

1170
01:39:42,239 --> 01:39:47,639
» Thank you. Any comments or questions
from council on these COAs?

1171
01:39:48,239 --> 01:39:56,639
Okay. I know I asked this earlier, but
are any of the applicants present?

1172
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:58,560
Any public comment on these COAs?
All those in favor?

1173
01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:00,639
» I
>> I

1174
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:07,520
» I.
>> Any nays? Motion passes.

1175
01:40:04,239 --> 01:40:12,080
» Okay. Now, uh I move to follow the
recommendation of the historic

1176
01:40:09,199 --> 01:40:19,159
architecture review board and deny the
following certific certificate of

1177
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:19,159
appropriateness. This is COA 2026-00005

1178
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:28,400
for 17 North State Street. The
applicants are Caroline and Janine El

1179
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:32,400
Classen Trust.
The applicants seek a certificate of

1180
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:38,880
appropriateness for installation of a
fence. Harb recommended denying the

1181
01:40:35,440 --> 01:40:44,960
application, emphasizing that if the PVC
fence had become had come before HARB

1182
01:40:42,639 --> 01:40:48,800
before its construction, it would have
been denied.

1183
01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:51,040
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1184
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:55,440
» Second.
>> Thank you. Any comments or questions

1185
01:40:52,400 --> 01:41:01,440
from council on this motion?
>> Is the applicant present?

1186
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:03,360
Any public comment? All those in favor?
I

1187
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:09,280
» I any
>> any nays? Motion passes.

1188
01:41:07,199 --> 01:41:13,199
» Okay. Seeing as we are missing our dear
Chief Sabbath, um we'll move on to the

1189
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:18,159
mayor's report who we are also missing.
Um so I would just uh say that we have

1190
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:23,760
two events on here that we will make
motions for tonight to um approve. Um so

1191
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:29,280
I would entertain a motion for Arbor
Day.

1192
01:41:26,639 --> 01:41:34,960
I'll make a motion to approve Arbor Day
sponsored by the recreation board on

1193
01:41:31,199 --> 01:41:40,960
Friday, April 17, 2026 from 9:00 am to
11:30 a.m. at Brian S. Greg Park. Rain

1194
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:43,440
date is April 24th, 2026.
>> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a

1195
01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:45,440
second?
>> Second.

1196
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:50,000
» Thank you. Any comments or questions
from councel?

1197
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:53,199
Any public comment?
All those in favor?

1198
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:57,520
» I.
>> Any nays? Motion passes. Uh, I'd

1199
01:41:56,000 --> 01:42:00,560
entertain a motion for the Memorial Day
parade.

1200
01:41:59,199 --> 01:42:06,159
» I'll make a motion to approve the
Memorial Day parade sponsored by the

1201
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:12,639
American Legion Morell Smith Post 440 on
Monday, May 25th, 2026, 9:00 a.m. to

1202
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:15,679
11:30 a.m. along a designated parade
route. No rain date.

1203
01:42:14,239 --> 01:42:17,199
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1204
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:21,280
» Second.
>> Thank you. Any comments or questions

1205
01:42:18,639 --> 01:42:25,119
from councel?
Any public comment?

1206
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:26,000
All those in favor?
>> I

1207
01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:29,600
» I
>> I

1208
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:34,480
» Any nays? Motion passes. Now, there's an
additional uh item under uh the mayor's

1209
01:42:32,480 --> 01:42:38,400
report. Uh but I don't know what Tara
was planning on saying about it. It's

1210
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:43,040
just about uh that Saturday, August 8th
will be New Town celebrates America's

1211
01:42:40,239 --> 01:42:48,520
250th. Um we'll add this to the next
agenda so she can give us more detail

1212
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:48,520
about that.

1213
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:53,119
» Okay, Greg. Moving on to the solicitor's
report.

1214
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:56,239
» Great. Uh the first thing I'm going to
take up under the solicitor's report are

1215
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:59,199
actually moving from the president's
report up to the solicitor's report

1216
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:06,960
which is an update on the fire services
agreement. As council may be aware um

1217
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:13,119
the township did approve on their end a
uh I guess our offer uh for the amount

1218
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:16,719
to enter back into a fire services
agreement with the township at their

1219
01:43:14,719 --> 01:43:21,600
previous meeting. We received a draft
agreement after the work session uh last

1220
01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:23,520
week. Um and so that's in review. We're
asking for a little bit more

1221
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:27,040
information. There was some
documentation missing from the

1222
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:30,480
transmission that we got. And so that's
under review and we'll be bringing that

1223
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:35,760
to council for review and discussion
during the April and and and hopeful

1224
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:41,040
approval uh during the April session. So
that's just an update on that. Um then

1225
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:45,280
next item on the solicitor's report is
the continued appeal hearing for 239

1226
01:43:43,679 --> 01:43:50,639
Court Street, which is a Harve appeal.
Are the deacons present? You want to

1227
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:55,199
come up? We'll we'll continue where we
left off. As a reminder for the board,

1228
01:43:52,880 --> 01:44:01,119
we looked at this um at a previous
meeting. Um this is regarding a

1229
01:43:57,040 --> 01:44:08,400
retaining wall at 239 Court Street um
that uh was erected prior to receiving

1230
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:15,600
any approvals. Um at the last meeting,
council elected to remand uh the

1231
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:22,159
application to HARB uh for a
recommendation on uh what they would

1232
01:44:18,719 --> 01:44:26,400
recommend to be placed there uh had uh
it gone through the normal review

1233
01:44:23,679 --> 01:44:31,679
process to inform council's decision in
this appeal. Um so HARB did take it up

1234
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:37,520
at their meeting on the 25th of
February. Uh, and the minutes reflect

1235
01:44:34,239 --> 01:44:45,280
the um following statement. And I'll
just read that in as we as we um

1236
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:51,199
did at the last one. Uh Harb recommends
a well the it was stated that the if the

1237
01:44:48,639 --> 01:44:55,600
application had come before the wall as
built, it would have been denied. Harb

1238
01:44:53,679 --> 01:45:01,280
recommends a simpler, more appropriate
stone wall. The stone shouldn't be laid

1239
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:06,639
in an ashlar pattern uh but rather more
closely match the irregular and roughly

1240
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:11,520
dressed stone of the house's foundation.
The cap should be less formal than the

1241
01:45:08,639 --> 01:45:18,480
existing rectangular cut blue stone top.
A more appropriate stone cap should be

1242
01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:22,400
of the same stone as the wall. Um and so
the ultimate was that they would they

1243
01:45:20,239 --> 01:45:27,920
denied it still but made those
recommendations for council's benefit in

1244
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:32,880
this hearing. So, as we reconvene now,
um, as the deacons have come forward,

1245
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:37,040
um, I don't know if if the deans would
have anything, uh, that they would like

1246
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:41,360
to offer council at this time based on
that recommendation made by HARB as to

1247
01:45:39,199 --> 01:45:45,360
where you are in the process or we can
open it back up to uh, council's

1248
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:48,880
discussion, but I would give the first
opportunity to begin.

1249
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:54,400
» No, I mean, I I don't, as I said before,
I don't um, you know, first of all, we

1250
01:45:52,719 --> 01:45:58,719
obviously didn't try to do anything
sneaky. There's a thousand cars drive by

1251
01:45:56,320 --> 01:46:04,560
our our house every day on on Court
Street. So, we didn't get a permit. We

1252
01:46:01,119 --> 01:46:08,560
screwed it up. Um, you know, as I
mentioned before, and I don't you know,

1253
01:46:06,000 --> 01:46:13,840
you guys are here long enough, but we've
we stole the idea off the house on

1254
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:18,239
Washington Street. It's a brick house.
Um, their stone is very similar to ours.

1255
01:46:16,719 --> 01:46:22,480
I don't pretend to know the names of the
stones and all that stuff, but but their

1256
01:46:20,159 --> 01:46:26,000
stone is very, very similar to ours. As
I said to you guys before, that's where

1257
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:32,639
I got the idea or my wife and I got the
idea. The other thing is there's it was

1258
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:39,199
mentioned that the stone doesn't match
the stone of the foundation of the

1259
01:46:34,239 --> 01:46:44,080
house, but the home across um from the
funeral home has a similar wall. It's

1260
01:46:42,239 --> 01:46:47,920
not it's different. So, I'm not I'm not
acting like it's exactly the same, but

1261
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:52,560
it certainly doesn't match the
foundation of theirs. So again, we're

1262
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:57,040
not, you know, we're not trying to do
anything to be sneaky. If we owe money

1263
01:46:55,199 --> 01:47:02,080
for the permit, that's fine. You know,
if whatever we're not we're not trying

1264
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:07,199
to be difficult, but I feel like we got
a tennis match going on. I'm going back

1265
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:12,080
and forth, you know. Um I think it looks
nice. We've gotten a lot of compliments,

1266
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:16,639
you know. Um I mean, I don't know what
else to say. I don't, as I said, I I

1267
01:47:14,159 --> 01:47:21,040
don't think we've uh I don't think the
top piece looks any different than

1268
01:47:18,639 --> 01:47:25,440
multiple homes in the area. So, I don't
really understand that. But again, we're

1269
01:47:23,040 --> 01:47:30,320
not we're not trying to be difficult.
We're easy to get along with, but I

1270
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:33,199
mean, at some point, I mean, I I think
we tried to do the right thing. The

1271
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:37,920
house looks nicer, I think. Again, I'm
not totally objective, I guess, but you

1272
01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:40,719
know, it just I feel like we're being a
little nitpicky to be truthful with you,

1273
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:46,000
but and I'm not trying to be difficult.
We'll do whatever we got to do. I'm not

1274
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:49,920
it just as I say I think there's other
homes in the area that look exactly the

1275
01:47:47,520 --> 01:47:54,239
same who are very very similar that
apparently didn't get get their hands

1276
01:47:52,159 --> 01:47:57,760
slapped. Make a long story short.
>> Thank you Mr. Deacon. council, we'll

1277
01:47:56,080 --> 01:48:01,760
open it back up to I mean, we we were
already in discussion and certainly you

1278
01:48:00,159 --> 01:48:07,520
can ask any additional questions of the
deans related to this in light of the

1279
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:13,320
recommendation or or I know it's a
recommendation the evaluation made by

1280
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:13,320
HARB.

1281
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:21,520
» Oh, well I I went to look at your wall
again this weekend. Um

1282
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:24,800
I
there are there are a number of things

1283
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:29,119
going on here. I would agree with you
that you know you did it's similar to

1284
01:48:27,119 --> 01:48:32,639
other walls in town and I see where you
got the idea actually went and looked at

1285
01:48:30,719 --> 01:48:39,040
those walls and you are correct their
walls did not match their foundations at

1286
01:48:34,480 --> 01:48:42,639
all either. Um and har I think Harvest
being inconsistent or maybe they're

1287
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:47,920
being consistent in their
inconsistencies because they have

1288
01:48:44,159 --> 01:48:52,800
approved walls. They have told other
property owners don't make your wall

1289
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:56,480
look like your foundation. I've heard
multiple times when people have come to

1290
01:48:54,400 --> 01:49:00,639
put walls in their backyard and said,
"Oh, we picked this stone to look just

1291
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:05,600
like our house." And the response from
Harb was, "No, make it look different."

1292
01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:09,040
And and then it is true. There are
houses on Washington Avenue that have

1293
01:49:07,199 --> 01:49:12,960
stone walls that are recent that were
approved that don't reflect the

1294
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:19,679
foundation at all. They're granite and
their houses are are um the brown

1295
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:24,719
sandstone Bucks County stone. Um, your
wall

1296
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:29,920
has a much has a modern look to it and
I'm wondering if you would be willing to

1297
01:49:27,119 --> 01:49:35,760
consider replacing just the blue stone
top with a rougher stone that matches

1298
01:49:33,520 --> 01:49:41,040
the stone of the rest of the wall. I
think that might soften the look and

1299
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:44,960
might um,
obviously it's not going to match your

1300
01:49:42,320 --> 01:49:49,199
foundation and I don't I don't I
wouldn't say that it needs to. I would

1301
01:49:46,239 --> 01:49:53,360
say that it might take away from the
more modern aspect of that wall compared

1302
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:56,480
to the age of your house.
>> Yeah. I mean, we'll certainly take a

1303
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:58,880
look at it. As I said, we're not
>> No, I get along with I'm more than happy

1304
01:49:58,239 --> 01:50:02,239
to have
>> Do you want I'm wondering if is there

1305
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:03,840
any kind of photo we could get of what
you're talking about because that

1306
01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:08,239
definitely seems
>> Well, rather that what you have is a is

1307
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:10,800
a modern blue stone which is very
popular right now. The top the top

1308
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:15,760
piece.
>> Okay. and and Harb actually did say this

1309
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:19,679
that they were suggesting that a more
appropriate stone cap would be of the

1310
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:24,719
same stone as the wall. So you have uh
stone in the the you know your your

1311
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:29,600
vertical surface is is [snorts]
like it was a a concrete block wall that

1312
01:50:27,119 --> 01:50:34,080
had a laminate put on right. So the the
kind of stone that the front of the wall

1313
01:50:31,679 --> 01:50:38,400
is, if you could get you can go to a
quarry and get some stone pieces to put

1314
01:50:36,400 --> 01:50:42,480
on the top of the wall instead of the
blue stone cap that might soften it

1315
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:46,480
better. And then
>> we're happy to we're happy to take a

1316
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:50,480
look at it and most likely do that. I'm
said I'm not recommendation.

1317
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:55,840
» Yeah. I No, I I I I understand your
situation. I I

1318
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:58,800
» Yeah, I get it. Yeah. [snorts]
>> I just don't And we're happy to do it.

1319
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:01,199
» Yeah. said, "We're going to do whatever
you whatever."

1320
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:04,800
» Right. So, if you were just
>> don't understand how there's multiple

1321
01:51:03,119 --> 01:51:07,040
homes that have the same top. And again,
I don't I don't even care what it cost

1322
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:10,320
us.
>> We'll do it. Get it done. I just don't

1323
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:14,239
understand as you're saying earlier,
which I appreciate you taking the time

1324
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:17,840
to go look at the homes. Um, you know,
but

1325
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:21,760
» there's so many others that are the same
is that's all I'm confused about. But

1326
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:23,920
we're happy to do that. No problem at
all.

1327
01:51:22,159 --> 01:51:28,320
» I do have a question though. So, we need
to get a we probably should go before

1328
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:33,440
ARB again. No, they would
>> um I don't know. In the past, people

1329
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:36,639
have asked harb to like help them pick
the stone, but not necessarily go back

1330
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:40,159
through the whole process again.
>> It would be up for council. There's

1331
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:45,760
there would since they've appealed from
the har. We're in a harb appeal here and

1332
01:51:42,560 --> 01:51:49,760
council ultimately has the the say on
what gets installed or not. So, I think

1333
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:53,599
it would be appropriate if council wants
to determine

1334
01:51:51,599 --> 01:51:57,280
» what it wants to do. It doesn't have to.
I mean you can certain you can certainly

1335
01:51:55,360 --> 01:52:01,040
send them back to harb like you just did
but there is no requirement whatsoever

1336
01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:05,440
that they need to go back to harve where
they are in this process.

1337
01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:09,280
» We might be able to get some advice from
harb from the consultant to say what

1338
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:14,159
would be the best stone to do this or
what should it look like or how should

1339
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:18,062
it be but not go through the whole har
coa process. I don't we don't want to go

1340
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:20,082
through another month of this.
[laughter]

1341
01:52:22,159 --> 01:52:26,960
Um, hello. Um, may I make a
recommendation?

1342
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:31,199
» Yeah, go ahead, Josh.
>> Right.

1343
01:52:28,159 --> 01:52:36,239
» Um, so, uh, in the past we've had folks
bring in materials that they were in

1344
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:41,440
question to our work session and let us
take a look at those. Could that be a

1345
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:48,159
possible solution to go ahead and bring
in the material uh for the the cap of

1346
01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:52,239
the wall as Julia suggested suggested
and then council can make a decision

1347
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:56,159
rather than because Harve's
recommendation was that it wouldn't be

1348
01:52:54,080 --> 01:53:00,560
approved and then they sent it back to
be um uh they would they said that they

1349
01:52:59,280 --> 01:53:03,599
would want it to look like the
foundation and we're kind of in

1350
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:07,520
disagreement over that it sounds like
and I appreciate Julia you bringing that

1351
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:12,719
to all of our attention. about the
history of that that really adds a lot

1352
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:18,159
of context. So I would recommend they
select a material that looks that would

1353
01:53:15,679 --> 01:53:21,520
that could be appropriate to match what
you were talking about Julia and then

1354
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:27,520
bring that to a work session where we
can evaluate it and approve it.

1355
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:29,760
» That that's absolutely an option.
>> Yeah.

1356
01:53:29,199 --> 01:53:32,159
» Yeah.
>> Yes.

1357
01:53:30,639 --> 01:53:35,520
» So first of all, sorry for keeping you
in purgatory over this.

1358
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:38,719
» No, we're all good. This was my biggest
problem. the the reason you're in

1359
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:45,440
purgatory is because we're trying to be
thoughtful and and not not jump to

1360
01:53:42,320 --> 01:53:49,760
conclusions uh because of the situation.
Um and nobody's sent you a uh violation

1361
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:52,560
notice or anything like that. We'll get
through it. Okay.

1362
01:53:50,560 --> 01:53:57,840
» No, it's all good. I'm not
>> um that's the main thing I wanted to say

1363
01:53:54,560 --> 01:54:05,360
with respect to uh Julia's suggestion.
Um, I just want to mention that, um,

1364
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:13,199
having like rough stone on top is may or
may not be an easy thing to do to cap a,

1365
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:18,159
uh, to cap a block wall with. Uh, and to
me, the more important piece is that

1366
01:54:15,280 --> 01:54:26,080
these the stone itself in color and
texture is able to match um match the uh

1367
01:54:23,119 --> 01:54:30,719
the wall stone. um and not so much that
it's that's it's uh fully rough or

1368
01:54:28,880 --> 01:54:35,679
that's there's a whole bunch of
different pieces, but um other than

1369
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:39,920
that, I'm open to I'm open to
suggestion. I'm open to a practical

1370
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:44,400
solution.
>> Thank you. Is there is there a home?

1371
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:47,840
Again, I'm not expecting somebody to
give us an address off the top of your

1372
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:51,440
head, but if there's if there's a home
we can go look at for what you're

1373
01:54:50,320 --> 01:54:54,880
requesting,
>> you know, I'm happy to do that. Well,

1374
01:54:53,299 --> 01:54:58,880
[laughter] I I I just do want to make
the point because you've mentioned it a

1375
01:54:56,239 --> 01:55:03,360
few times when when Harborviews these
kinds of things, they're not comparing

1376
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:09,440
it to any other house. Every house is
>> bas is judged by itself. It's not So

1377
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:14,000
something that could be appropriate for
a house on Washington Avenue that was

1378
01:55:11,360 --> 01:55:18,239
built 100 years after yours might not be
appropriate for yours. That's how Harb

1379
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:21,520
reviews things. So, I just wanted to
point that out. But that doesn't mean

1380
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:25,679
there's not another house in town that
has the kind of stone uh that Julia is

1381
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:27,920
referencing. So,
>> we're not super creative. We like to

1382
01:55:27,119 --> 01:55:31,679
have
>> Well, who did this wall? Did you work

1383
01:55:29,440 --> 01:55:34,560
with the mason?
>> Our landscaper that we've used for 25

1384
01:55:33,840 --> 01:55:37,040
years.
>> So, he laid the stone and everything.

1385
01:55:36,080 --> 01:55:40,400
» He did everything. [clears throat]
>> Yeah. Um you might talk to him if he's

1386
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:46,400
got some ideas. You might bring this
back to them and him and say, "Well,

1387
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:49,920
what would you suggest that's is not as
>> um modern."

1388
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:52,960
» Okay. and that would blend better and he
might be able to say, "Oh, yeah, I did

1389
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:56,719
this for so and so." and be able to send
you that way. If that doesn't work, I'm

1390
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:58,400
sure we can find some resources for you.
>> Okay.

1391
01:55:57,280 --> 01:56:02,560
» Or Harb could actually
>> and and and likely like if he has a

1392
01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:06,000
couple suggestions, a couple samples
that council could review, um that

1393
01:56:04,639 --> 01:56:10,400
probably be better.
>> Who would we reach out to? Is it Anna

1394
01:56:09,199 --> 01:56:12,400
» when we have um
>> you can reach out to Craig?

1395
01:56:11,679 --> 01:56:16,159
» Craig.
>> Okay.

1396
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:21,280
» Yeah. Our our April work session is
>> the 8th. It's a week later.

1397
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:26,080
» Wednesday, April 8th is when we'd have
the opportunity to review them.

1398
01:56:23,199 --> 01:56:29,199
» Okay. Um, no, that's perfect. And and I
do I appreciate you um

1399
01:56:27,920 --> 01:56:33,280
» the suggestions we do
>> trying to work with us. I'm not um

1400
01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:36,480
» and we promise we will always get for
every other thing we do.

1401
01:56:34,320 --> 01:56:41,280
» I appreciate you working. We'll figure
>> if that's if that's the direction of

1402
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:44,960
council. We don't have to do a any
formal motion. I would just say that

1403
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:50,719
we'll stand we'll we'll recess this
hearing until the April 8th meeting and

1404
01:56:47,760 --> 01:56:56,239
that the direction of the deans is to uh
source some samples for a cap to the

1405
01:56:53,360 --> 01:57:00,239
wall and if you can share them and if
you are able to you can also coordinate

1406
01:56:58,159 --> 01:57:03,760
with Craig to share them in advance but
it will be discussed and we'll resume

1407
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:08,960
this conversation at the April 8th work
session with a with an agenda item for

1408
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:13,280
resolution to this as well
>> potentially. That's perfect. Is it is it

1409
01:57:11,520 --> 01:57:18,719
fair to say that that just to keep this
in mind that um and picking up on

1410
01:57:15,679 --> 01:57:21,280
Julia's comments, number one, that um uh
we don't like the blue stone in the

1411
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:26,880
modern look, right? So, we're looking
for something that's a perhaps more uh

1412
01:57:24,639 --> 01:57:31,040
of a match to the other stone that's on
the wall. Is that what you're saying?

1413
01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:36,320
» And secondly,
ideally a little bit more rough hune if

1414
01:57:33,760 --> 01:57:38,239
possible. Again, matching matching the
wall. That's uh

1415
01:57:37,119 --> 01:57:41,599
» all on the top piece.
>> That's what we're suggesting. you you

1416
01:57:40,639 --> 01:57:45,440
take a look at.
>> That's perfect.

1417
01:57:43,760 --> 01:57:47,119
» Okay. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. Have a good night.

1418
01:57:46,639 --> 01:57:53,159
» Thank you.
>> You too.

1419
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:53,159
» Uh the next item on the

1420
01:57:53,360 --> 01:57:58,199
» No, because there's no motion. It was a
hearing.

1421
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:07,040
The next item on the uh under the
solicitor's report is um the

1422
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:12,320
consideration of a handicap parking
space uh with conditions at 446

1423
01:58:09,840 --> 01:58:18,679
Washington Avenue. Um this was provided
as a resolution for council uh numbered

1424
01:58:15,679 --> 01:58:18,679
3-10-2026.

1425
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:27,440
Um this would establish a reserved
parking space um with conditions in

1426
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:33,920
front of 446 Washington Avenue. Um and
this is established pursuant to um

1427
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:42,400
section 535-32E
of of the code of burrow of new town. Um

1428
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:46,560
the resolution re uh I won't read it. Uh
the all the whereas clauses but the the

1429
01:58:45,119 --> 01:58:50,400
conditions that the resolution
establishes is that the reserved parking

1430
01:58:48,480 --> 01:58:55,119
space is established in front of 446
Washington Avenue. that the reserved

1431
01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:59,440
parking spaces shall be demarcated
within the cartway of Washington Avenue

1432
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:03,280
in front of 446 Washington in an
appropriate location determined by the

1433
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:07,199
burrow. The burough shall issue a permit
to Mallerie Newman for her exclusive use

1434
01:59:05,440 --> 01:59:11,599
of the reserved parking space without
fee required. The reserve parking space

1435
01:59:09,599 --> 01:59:15,119
shall include a sign with such signage
restricting use of the parking space

1436
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:20,960
solely and exclusively to the permit
holder. The Burrow of New Town shall

1437
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:26,800
delineate the reserve parking space with
visible lit linage following the size

1438
01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:30,480
and line spacing of section 486-21E
of the code of B burrow of New Town and

1439
01:59:29,119 --> 01:59:34,560
that the reserved parking space and
permit shall be available to the permit

1440
01:59:32,320 --> 01:59:39,199
holder for so long as the permit holder
resides at 446 Washington Avenue or no

1441
01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:44,000
longer holds a handicap placard or
license plate.

1442
01:59:41,599 --> 01:59:48,040
Thank you. So to begin discussion, I
would entertain a motion from council.

1443
01:59:52,159 --> 01:59:57,679
» So you want to do the motion
>> for the for the parking space? Yes. And

1444
01:59:55,679 --> 02:00:02,639
then we will discuss. Yeah.
>> Like to make a motion to approve a

1445
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:07,520
reserved handicap parking space with
conditions for 446 Washington Avenue.

1446
02:00:06,159 --> 02:00:09,119
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1447
02:00:08,320 --> 02:00:11,840
» Second.
>> Thank you. Okay. Okay, now we can open

1448
02:00:10,480 --> 02:00:14,840
it up to comments or questions from
council.

1449
02:00:16,080 --> 02:00:22,560
» I have one I actually have two
questions. Um I'm in favor of this

1450
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:28,880
motion, but I just I want to clarify
some things. Um Michelle, this is a

1451
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:35,199
state road. Um are there any special
requirements that um is are we able to

1452
02:00:32,400 --> 02:00:39,679
provide this parking space without any
um permitting from PENDOT?

1453
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:45,679
» That's it.
That's a good question. You may need to

1454
02:00:42,480 --> 02:00:48,880
um get a permit from Pendot at least for
the signage. That's something that we

1455
02:00:47,360 --> 02:00:53,440
could look into for you.
>> Okay. So, having the spot is not the

1456
02:00:50,560 --> 02:01:02,040
problem, it's the sign. It may be both.
>> Okay. Okay. Um my second question is um

1457
02:00:57,280 --> 02:01:02,040
knowing the um

1458
02:01:02,159 --> 02:01:08,960
I don't know if the word I want to use
the the scarcity of parking at that end

1459
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:11,920
of of the block and given the number of
houses that don't have off- streetet

1460
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:16,400
parking that are in the neighborhood of
this particular address. I'm wondering

1461
02:01:14,239 --> 02:01:21,040
if if the Newmans would be willing,
although I don't want to put this into a

1462
02:01:18,400 --> 02:01:26,400
motion. I'm just asking since I see that
um [snorts] that Matt is at the podium.

1463
02:01:23,599 --> 02:01:31,119
Um if if Mallalerie knows she's going to
be away for an extended period of time,

1464
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:39,000
like a week or a vacation or something,
would there be would you be willing to

1465
02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:39,000
um make that spot available to others?

1466
02:01:40,480 --> 02:01:50,400
» I'm not quite sure if I'm being directly
addressed because I really being invited

1467
02:01:46,239 --> 02:01:54,400
up here. I just kind of showed up. Um,
yes. I mean, if if if we know that we're

1468
02:01:52,239 --> 02:01:57,920
going to be gone for a month for or, you
know, a week for a vacation, absolutely

1469
02:01:56,080 --> 02:02:01,920
anybody can use that spot. This is just
solely so that Mal has the ability to

1470
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:07,040
park in front of her spot when it's
she's having a bad day and, you know,

1471
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:11,599
she needs to be close when there's
groceries and I'm not home. So yeah, if

1472
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:17,040
I mean we would absolutely work with the
neighbors if if that's something you

1473
02:02:13,599 --> 02:02:20,719
know there's generally
oa there have been occasions where you

1474
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:24,000
know random people will park there but
it's generally just our our local

1475
02:02:22,639 --> 02:02:25,920
neighbors and we're happy to work with
them.

1476
02:02:24,639 --> 02:02:29,040
» Okay. Thanks.
>> And that would also be an enforcement

1477
02:02:27,599 --> 02:02:30,880
issue. So I guess the Newman's could
just alert

1478
02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:34,800
» Sabbath
>> put a bag over the sign

1479
02:02:32,639 --> 02:02:38,000
» just alert chief Sabbath that this to
not enforce the the permit you know.

1480
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:44,239
Okay.
>> During that time,

1481
02:02:40,639 --> 02:02:48,000
» so should we um make this uh subject to
uh pendot approval? Is that what we're

1482
02:02:47,199 --> 02:02:51,760
saying?
>> If required. If required.

1483
02:02:51,040 --> 02:02:53,520
» Excuse me.
>> To the extent required. Yeah.

1484
02:02:52,960 --> 02:02:57,599
» Hi.
>> Go ahead, Josh.

1485
02:02:55,119 --> 02:03:01,520
» I have a question. Um so in regards to
the signage, one of our conversations

1486
02:02:59,679 --> 02:03:06,239
that we've had as council, will there be
any kind of painting of lines or

1487
02:03:03,679 --> 02:03:11,920
anything to mark the location? And if
so, and if PINDOT approves that, how do

1488
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:15,199
you um then I I I hear the question
about working with neighbors when

1489
02:03:13,440 --> 02:03:20,159
they're not home, but that seems like a
whole another issue of how do you say,

1490
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:26,480
well, those lines don't matter right
now. Just throwing that out there. Any

1491
02:03:22,719 --> 02:03:32,960
comments on that from U Michelle or
Greg? I think Josh I I think as I'm u

1492
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:38,880
mentioned I think it would the lines not
mattering would be an enforcement issue

1493
02:03:36,400 --> 02:03:41,360
uh for the for the police department. Um
they're they're the ones who are going

1494
02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:45,280
to be going around and saying there's a
there's a car without a permit parked in

1495
02:03:43,040 --> 02:03:50,080
a permit spot or or inappropriately
parked in half the spot. So if there's a

1496
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:55,280
if there's a time that the Newmans would
not be utilizing the spot and they can

1497
02:03:52,800 --> 02:04:02,719
advise the the police department of
such, they could not enforce it at that

1498
02:03:57,599 --> 02:04:06,560
time. Um there there's not there's not a
another party that would be enforcing

1499
02:04:04,719 --> 02:04:12,400
that parking regulation other than the
police department. And the and the

1500
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:18,560
resolution does does state that linage
will be painted on the on the roadway to

1501
02:04:15,920 --> 02:04:22,320
to allow an appropriate amount of room
for a car to park there so that it

1502
02:04:20,239 --> 02:04:28,239
wouldn't be
uh impossible for Miss Newman to

1503
02:04:25,599 --> 02:04:34,159
actually utilize the spot based on other
cars being parked on the block.

1504
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:40,320
» Does that answer your question?
>> I think I think so. Yes.

1505
02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:43,520
So, um, we want to amend the motion to
be contingent upon meeting the

1506
02:04:41,599 --> 02:04:47,199
requirements of PENDOT should there be
any.

1507
02:04:46,400 --> 02:04:51,360
» So,
>> I think I think we we I think you would

1508
02:04:49,679 --> 02:04:55,199
have to understand that we don't really
have a choice in that in that matter

1509
02:04:53,119 --> 02:05:00,000
that PENDOT would have to ultimately
approve.

1510
02:04:56,560 --> 02:05:05,731
» Yeah, I I fully understand that we can't
skirt the overarching laws that we live

1511
02:05:03,520 --> 02:05:09,119
under.
>> [laughter]

1512
02:05:06,560 --> 02:05:12,800
» So, I guess you can just say as amended.
>> Uh, as amended.

1513
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:15,440
» Second.
>> Second.

1514
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:20,800
» Okay. Any additional comments or
questions from council on this?

1515
02:05:18,320 --> 02:05:23,360
Any public comment?
All those in favor?

1516
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:28,520
» I
>> I.

1517
02:05:24,239 --> 02:05:28,520
» Any nays? Motion passes.

1518
02:05:29,199 --> 02:05:36,639
Um and the last item on the solicitor's
report is regarding a pillar agreement

1519
02:05:34,239 --> 02:05:42,320
um with the Newman's for an EV charging
post in the right of way in front of 446

1520
02:05:38,719 --> 02:05:48,159
Washington Avenue. Um there was some
documentation that was supplied to

1521
02:05:44,480 --> 02:05:56,320
council on the location uh and the uh
schematics of the uh um corresponding uh

1522
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:59,920
electrical work uh to the extent that it
was available now um with the

1523
02:05:58,320 --> 02:06:03,679
understanding as I think Mr. Dr. Newman
understands that anything that would be

1524
02:06:01,520 --> 02:06:08,239
installed would have to be uh under a
permit issued by the burrow, inspected

1525
02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:12,800
and compliant with the the burrow's
electrical code and the NEC. Um so that

1526
02:06:11,119 --> 02:06:19,280
that has been presented. We do not have
a a draft of any pillar agreement, but I

1527
02:06:16,719 --> 02:06:23,599
think we would we would ask that if
council is inclined to approve this

1528
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:29,599
tonight. It's more so related to whether
the pillar can be related there and we

1529
02:06:25,840 --> 02:06:32,719
would then work on uh and with Mr.
Newman and his council on getting a

1530
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:40,000
pillar agreement together that would
satisfy any requirements that would be

1531
02:06:36,159 --> 02:06:44,520
uh dictated by council.
>> So we're looking for a motion to open

1532
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:44,520
discussion.

1533
02:06:45,199 --> 02:06:49,760
So, this is just to open the discussion,
>> correct? Just like we do every other.

1534
02:06:49,222 --> 02:06:53,599
[laughter]
>> Everyone's different. I'd like to make a

1535
02:06:51,520 --> 02:06:58,639
motion to approve a pillar agreement
with Matthew Newman for an EV charging

1536
02:06:56,079 --> 02:07:02,079
post in the right of way in the front of
446 Washington Avenue.

1537
02:07:00,639 --> 02:07:03,760
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1538
02:07:03,040 --> 02:07:08,000
» Second.
>> Thank you. Um I'll open it up to

1539
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:13,679
comments and questions from council.
>> Question number one to Michelle. This is

1540
02:07:10,719 --> 02:07:18,239
a state road. Do we have to get a home a
highway opening permit or other kinds of

1541
02:07:16,320 --> 02:07:21,440
permits from PENDOT to even consider
this

1542
02:07:19,840 --> 02:07:27,867
» because it's in the rightway is
>> in the in the rightway of a state road.

1543
02:07:25,760 --> 02:07:32,000
» You may.
[laughter]

1544
02:07:29,040 --> 02:07:36,159
» Yes. Yes, you may.
>> Um my

1545
02:07:34,159 --> 02:07:39,119
» Would that be the responsibility of of
the burrow as it's in the right of way

1546
02:07:37,679 --> 02:07:42,320
or the responsibility of the property
owner?

1547
02:07:39,599 --> 02:07:45,920
» Property owner.
So my second comment is that there has

1548
02:07:44,400 --> 02:07:51,920
been a tremendous amount of new
information that's come within the last

1549
02:07:47,679 --> 02:07:57,199
24 hours. The um proposed design of the
post, the the actual charger being

1550
02:07:54,560 --> 02:08:03,360
selected, the way the wiring is done,
comments, we just at 3:00 this afternoon

1551
02:08:00,480 --> 02:08:07,520
got a response from um Barry Iset
regarding um the electrical code and

1552
02:08:06,079 --> 02:08:12,159
what he would need to be looking for.
And it's very complicated. there's a lot

1553
02:08:09,199 --> 02:08:17,360
of stuff. Um so, um I would say we're
not ready to consider a pillar agreement

1554
02:08:14,239 --> 02:08:24,239
at this time. Um if it is going to be
referencing a particular design or uh or

1555
02:08:22,560 --> 02:08:30,000
whatever. I'm so I'm I'm trying to
decide whether

1556
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:35,760
the ability to
consider a pillar agreement, which is

1557
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:41,280
saying, "Yeah, we're in favor of a
pillar agreement." and all of the the um

1558
02:08:38,320 --> 02:08:45,119
who's responsible for what and who's uh
and all of the second page of that o

1559
02:08:43,199 --> 02:08:50,560
that other draft that was that you had
previously given us Greg whether um but

1560
02:08:48,560 --> 02:08:54,480
eliminating any reference to any
particular design or anything because

1561
02:08:52,480 --> 02:08:58,800
that would have to be taken care of
separately that would be something that

1562
02:08:56,560 --> 02:09:03,840
I might consider but if it's going to
have any kind of direct indication of

1563
02:09:01,679 --> 02:09:08,159
what we are approving we don't have
nearly enough time to review the

1564
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:12,880
information we've received to make sure
that we know what's being proposed

1565
02:09:10,079 --> 02:09:17,360
before we actually say okay.
>> I I think the the primary purpose of the

1566
02:09:15,119 --> 02:09:22,880
pillar agreement is to approve the
location of the the fixture that would

1567
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:29,360
that would be erected in the right of
way. um any any [snorts]

1568
02:09:26,320 --> 02:09:35,119
electrical standards, the the charger,
however that would uh comply with the

1569
02:09:32,639 --> 02:09:39,520
burrow's existing code would be subject
to the permit that would have to be

1570
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:46,800
pulled. Um, so whether it's the the
cable running under underground, the uh

1571
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:51,199
charger that's installed, the um
how it's wired, uh would all be subject

1572
02:09:49,280 --> 02:09:55,840
to the review of that permit, subject,
you know, under our existing uh

1573
02:09:53,760 --> 02:10:00,079
electrical code. Um I think that there
are are some things that council could

1574
02:09:58,239 --> 02:10:05,920
consider as part of this that were in
that uh original agreement um like uh it

1575
02:10:03,760 --> 02:10:08,480
being locked or not available for public
use. The

1576
02:10:07,280 --> 02:10:11,440
And I know that there was some
information that this one can't be

1577
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:16,320
physically locked but not available for
public use. That could be a condition of

1578
02:10:13,679 --> 02:10:21,040
the existence of this pillar in the
right of way um that could be separated

1579
02:10:18,639 --> 02:10:27,119
off from the
uh technical specifications.

1580
02:10:24,159 --> 02:10:33,360
Well, to a certain extent I I disagree
because the um the pillar as it's

1581
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:39,679
currently being depicted in the latest
picture that we got is basically a post

1582
02:10:36,400 --> 02:10:45,199
with a charger hanging on it and if I'm
interpreting it correctly, a 25 foot

1583
02:10:42,480 --> 02:10:48,955
charging cable
wrapped around and hanging off a hook on

1584
02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:51,040
the side of it.
>> [snorts]

1585
02:10:49,040 --> 02:10:57,119
» So, if that's what we're looking at
right now, then um I'm not in a in a

1586
02:10:54,880 --> 02:11:00,480
position to support that. We were
previously told this was something that

1587
02:10:58,880 --> 02:11:03,679
was going to hide something. That's what
went to harm. There's too many things

1588
02:11:02,159 --> 02:11:11,760
that are out there and keep changing
like hourly. So, um, I would suggest

1589
02:11:07,520 --> 02:11:17,520
that we not we that that we can't have
an agreement that in any way, shape, or

1590
02:11:14,800 --> 02:11:21,679
form is approving what's actually going
to get put there. But then the second

1591
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:26,639
half of that is when we've had pillar
agreements come before council before,

1592
02:11:23,920 --> 02:11:30,320
it's to say, I want to put this ballard
or this pillar in the rightway in front

1593
02:11:28,800 --> 02:11:34,400
of my house. It looks like this. And
council says, okay, it looks like that.

1594
02:11:32,719 --> 02:11:38,400
That's what we're going to allow.
Therefore, we will write this agreement.

1595
02:11:36,400 --> 02:11:41,520
So, you see where I'm stuck. I do
>> in the middle of this.

1596
02:11:39,119 --> 02:11:45,760
» I do. And I think Mr. Newman may be able
to answer some of those questions, if

1597
02:11:43,280 --> 02:11:51,840
not all of them. But I I I'm I'm not
capable of answering them. I looked at

1598
02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:56,800
the same uh materials that that were
forwarded to council.

1599
02:11:52,960 --> 02:12:03,920
» So, I I have too many questions. So, um
that that's where I am on this one.

1600
02:12:00,960 --> 02:12:07,920
I I just I guess from a solicitor's
perspective in in the eventual

1601
02:12:05,840 --> 02:12:13,679
consideration of a pillar agreement, if
that's council's choice for this, then

1602
02:12:10,960 --> 02:12:17,599
uh
I guess I would ask for council's

1603
02:12:15,760 --> 02:12:24,880
direction on when we can work on
answering those questions so that uh

1604
02:12:22,239 --> 02:12:31,119
we we can move move this forward if
council so desires. Um whether that's

1605
02:12:27,440 --> 02:12:36,800
tonight with Mr. Newman or or in some
other other form. Uh that's I think that

1606
02:12:35,040 --> 02:12:41,599
direction is necessary so that we're not
in uh we're not back here in a meeting

1607
02:12:39,760 --> 02:12:44,960
and still have unanswered questions.
That that's my concern

1608
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:49,199
» for sure. So based on all of this
documentation that's gone back and forth

1609
02:12:46,639 --> 02:12:56,800
and and the uh opinions weighed one way
or another on all different things, um

1610
02:12:52,079 --> 02:13:02,199
it would seem to me that a more detailed
um and I would say quote unquote final

1611
02:13:02,320 --> 02:13:10,880
um design is presented to us. The one we
just got was not even 24 hours old and

1612
02:13:08,639 --> 02:13:15,679
it's completely different in terms of
components and how things are arranged

1613
02:13:12,639 --> 02:13:22,280
and and and so on.
So we don't have that. Um just

1614
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:31,360
could I I have a question.
>> Yeah.

1615
02:13:28,000 --> 02:13:36,639
» Um so would could and and this also is a
question for Greg. Could we not um uh

1616
02:13:34,639 --> 02:13:43,199
approve the pillar agreement contingent
upon it meeting the electrical code and

1617
02:13:39,679 --> 02:13:48,880
standards that of which I'm not as aware
of but our our permitting office and and

1618
02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:52,159
code inspectors are. Um, could we do
something like that which would give

1619
02:13:50,159 --> 02:13:57,679
them the ability to move forward in good
faith and then also to for the Newmans

1620
02:13:55,679 --> 02:14:02,800
to work probably a little bit more
closely with the permitting office and

1621
02:14:00,159 --> 02:14:05,679
um and their recommendations to make
sure that this is moving in the right

1622
02:14:04,480 --> 02:14:11,040
direction.
>> Josh, I I it's certainly feasible to uh

1623
02:14:09,199 --> 02:14:16,239
approve a pillar agreement subject to
the that type of condition. Um, I will I

1624
02:14:13,760 --> 02:14:21,280
will say I agree with with Julia that
council needs to um as if you're

1625
02:14:20,000 --> 02:14:25,599
approving the pillar agreement then
council has to be comfortable with the

1626
02:14:23,199 --> 02:14:30,639
the fixture that's going to be erected.
Uh I don't I I I'm agree that it can be

1627
02:14:28,719 --> 02:14:34,880
contingent whether the the inards and
the the electricity of it can be

1628
02:14:33,040 --> 02:14:39,760
conditional based on the approval of a
permit by the and working with the code

1629
02:14:36,560 --> 02:14:43,520
office. Um, but the actual fixture and I
would venture to say the the charger

1630
02:14:41,440 --> 02:14:46,960
that's mounted there as well is part of
what you're con you're considering when

1631
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:52,079
you're approving the pillar agreement.
So I I council does have to feel

1632
02:14:49,679 --> 02:14:55,199
comfortable with that information. Um, I
think that there's been over the course

1633
02:14:53,760 --> 02:15:00,000
of this I think there's been three
different things that council has seen.

1634
02:14:57,840 --> 02:15:05,440
We started with a a post I think with a
charger on it. There was a secondary

1635
02:15:02,159 --> 02:15:09,760
scheme uh from uh that you saw recently
that that it appeared to be hidden. The

1636
02:15:08,079 --> 02:15:15,599
most recent one, as Julia mentioned,
shows a a mounted charging box. Again, I

1637
02:15:13,040 --> 02:15:19,199
think albeit smaller in size than any
one that than the previous version of a

1638
02:15:17,520 --> 02:15:24,159
mounted charging box, but yes, council
has to be comfortable with the post uh

1639
02:15:22,159 --> 02:15:29,760
general the general location of the post
and and any uh impertinances on that

1640
02:15:27,199 --> 02:15:35,599
post. uh but it could absolutely be
contingent on the technical electrical

1641
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:39,520
aspects of it being approved by the code
office and those with that technical

1642
02:15:37,599 --> 02:15:43,840
expertise.
>> Um I have a question for you Matt. Um

1643
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:49,520
the the latest plan that we just got
yesterday that is different than the

1644
02:15:46,159 --> 02:15:54,320
original one. Um,
was the original one an actual like

1645
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:59,360
portable plug-in cord that you could
have un unplugged and put in your car

1646
02:15:57,679 --> 02:16:05,679
when not charging?
>> That uh that was never the intent. Uh

1647
02:16:02,000 --> 02:16:10,159
I'll be quite honest. Um I was uh a
little bit uh expeditious with that

1648
02:16:08,320 --> 02:16:16,079
first version. I was just trying to put
something together uh per uh in order to

1649
02:16:13,920 --> 02:16:21,679
provide some kind of visual impact so
that council could understand what we're

1650
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:26,400
looking for the location of it in reg uh
respon or regards to the the rightway

1651
02:16:24,000 --> 02:16:31,520
and where the parking spot would be. Um
I had not gone through the detailed

1652
02:16:28,800 --> 02:16:37,200
electrical engineering necessary uh and
mechanical engineering necessary in

1653
02:16:33,200 --> 02:16:40,800
order to to do that. Um that is what led
me to version two which is what was

1654
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:46,080
presented to harb where everything was
kind of hidden. Um I was running under

1655
02:16:44,399 --> 02:16:52,800
an assumption that that could be a
hardwired system. Uh when I again got

1656
02:16:50,160 --> 02:16:58,479
into the details there is no provision
to hardwire that system. Uh and that

1657
02:16:55,920 --> 02:17:05,120
would have required a very large
pluggable um outlet that would have been

1658
02:17:02,160 --> 02:17:10,080
able to be removed. I I suppose, but I
was trying to hide it and make it more

1659
02:17:07,519 --> 02:17:16,800
visually appealing for the neighborhood.
Um, so when I came to the conclusion

1660
02:17:13,040 --> 02:17:21,280
that that was not a NEC uh acceptable
installation, I had to move back to an

1661
02:17:19,359 --> 02:17:26,639
external charger. But all of the
electrics are inside of the pillar in

1662
02:17:23,519 --> 02:17:33,599
order to um again reduce the visual
impact. Uh there is

1663
02:17:30,479 --> 02:17:39,280
the the the the risk in my mind
associated with doing uh a removable

1664
02:17:36,800 --> 02:17:44,080
charger is one we're talking about
somebody who does have mobility issues

1665
02:17:41,120 --> 02:17:50,240
sometimes. Uh these cables are fairly
heavy. Uh they're difficult to move and

1666
02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:55,280
the the in the the main issue from an
electrical safety standpoint. Yes, we

1667
02:17:52,559 --> 02:17:59,040
would have a large outlet down near the
bottom that it could be plugged in.

1668
02:17:56,880 --> 02:18:03,519
again, more visually impactful. Those
systems are not intended to be plugged

1669
02:18:00,719 --> 02:18:10,559
in and removed repeatedly. Uh you'll get
wear over time. It's it's just not um

1670
02:18:08,000 --> 02:18:14,120
it's not an ideal use case.
>> Okay. Thank you.

1671
02:18:14,880 --> 02:18:20,240
» May I
>> please?

1672
02:18:16,319 --> 02:18:26,639
» Yeah. So um uh with respect to so first
of all um

1673
02:18:23,599 --> 02:18:32,319
in order to accommodate your wife right
we have gone a step further than what

1674
02:18:29,439 --> 02:18:41,280
the ordinance already allows which is
that we can we can establish a um a

1675
02:18:36,960 --> 02:18:44,960
handicap parking spot um as a reasonable
>> issues though

1676
02:18:42,399 --> 02:18:50,559
» talking about that I I know I know but
to me one is related to the other. Um,

1677
02:18:48,160 --> 02:18:53,599
so I just pointing out that in addition
to what would be allowed under

1678
02:18:52,000 --> 02:18:58,960
ordinance, we're entering into an
agreement that gives you exclusive use

1679
02:18:56,080 --> 02:19:03,679
of that with respect. Now, secondly,
with respect to the pillar, again, we

1680
02:19:01,439 --> 02:19:10,240
have an ordinance that provides for that
and I'm perfectly happy with proceeding

1681
02:19:06,960 --> 02:19:14,160
um to enter into a pillar agreement
um in accordance with whatever the

1682
02:19:12,080 --> 02:19:20,639
ordinance allows.
The issue to me is the EV charger. We

1683
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:26,800
have no ordinance for an EV charger.
We've begun to discuss it. I've

1684
02:19:23,359 --> 02:19:33,359
expressed my uh strong concerns with a
number of issues with respect to EV

1685
02:19:28,960 --> 02:19:39,120
chargers on posts along our streets. We
live um in a in a town that's a uh it's

1686
02:19:37,359 --> 02:19:46,639
an intimate town with houses close
together um with um not everybody has a

1687
02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:53,120
driveway. It's not possible. But that
doesn't mean we should be putting uh uh

1688
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:59,439
charging posts in the ride of way across
the burrow. And I don't see how this

1689
02:19:56,479 --> 02:20:05,920
specific situation is any different from
the situation with respect to any other

1690
02:20:01,760 --> 02:20:11,120
resident in the community. And um so I
am 100% against

1691
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:16,880
um any pillar ordinance that would
include the EV charger. I think that's a

1692
02:20:14,479 --> 02:20:23,439
mistake as a precedent. I think it's a
mistake as a policy. Thank you.

1693
02:20:21,040 --> 02:20:28,720
» Thank you. Any other comments or
questions from council?

1694
02:20:26,720 --> 02:20:33,520
» Would it be helpful? I'm sorry. Were you
a sec?

1695
02:20:30,160 --> 02:20:36,960
» I I have full faith in zoning and
electrical.

1696
02:20:34,880 --> 02:20:42,240
» Is your mic on?
>> I have full faith in the zoning and the

1697
02:20:39,040 --> 02:20:45,359
electrical and I I think that
we could do this pillar knowing that

1698
02:20:44,080 --> 02:20:50,000
they're they're going to do their job
and it's it's going to work and it's

1699
02:20:47,280 --> 02:20:54,319
going to be good. concern I have is
comes back to the cable and the

1700
02:20:51,439 --> 02:20:59,439
connector that goes from here to the car
and maybe I don't completely understand

1701
02:20:56,399 --> 02:21:04,000
it and need to look at this better. Um,
but to have cables just hanging out

1702
02:21:02,479 --> 02:21:09,680
there
just seems to be a way we

1703
02:21:07,200 --> 02:21:16,560
we need just to work on it and make sure
that we can get a design that doesn't

1704
02:21:13,040 --> 02:21:20,319
have that long cable there all the time
because if everybody on Washington

1705
02:21:18,479 --> 02:21:24,319
Avenue has these pillars, which are
great, which are fine, I have no

1706
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:28,399
problems with them, but the cables
attached to them.

1707
02:21:27,040 --> 02:21:32,640
May may I speak to that?
>> Yes.

1708
02:21:29,120 --> 02:21:36,399
» Um, so as as far as an untethered EV
charger, uh, there is a little blurb at

1709
02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:41,280
the at the very back on the
decision-making process on that.

1710
02:21:38,319 --> 02:21:46,800
Ultimately, you cannot get a ULlisted EV
charger in the United States that is

1711
02:21:43,680 --> 02:21:51,520
untethered. So, that is
ultimately not a possibility. The only

1712
02:21:48,640 --> 02:21:56,000
possibility to accomplish that would be
to use a portable charger.

1713
02:21:53,600 --> 02:22:01,200
» Right.
Um, have you thought about um the

1714
02:21:58,960 --> 02:22:07,439
possibility of
mounting your charger on a post in your

1715
02:22:04,000 --> 02:22:14,640
yard and then sending a conduit
underneath the sidewalk that comes up to

1716
02:22:10,640 --> 02:22:18,000
this post in the right of way and I know
this particular charger that you have

1717
02:22:16,399 --> 02:22:24,399
currently you're currently looking at
because we actually have one and that

1718
02:22:20,240 --> 02:22:30,319
can you then take you you can open it up
And as you know, you can hardwire it.

1719
02:22:26,479 --> 02:22:35,520
You can also detach the charging cord
that's current the the charging cable

1720
02:22:32,720 --> 02:22:40,160
where it's attached to that unit. Take
that and feed it back from the right

1721
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:46,399
ofway under the sidewalk and back up to
the charger.

1722
02:22:42,560 --> 02:22:50,880
So it's a 25 foot long cable.
If it's if you're charging right at your

1723
02:22:48,479 --> 02:22:57,120
post, you probably need about five feet
on the street side. That right? So, if

1724
02:22:54,080 --> 02:23:01,439
what's coming up is your charger cable
and when it exits maybe exits your post

1725
02:22:59,760 --> 02:23:07,280
from the top of your post, you have
about five feet left that you can use

1726
02:23:04,800 --> 02:23:12,640
then to get to your car and then when
it's not in use that you might be able

1727
02:23:09,040 --> 02:23:17,359
to feed that bit of cable back into your
hollow post and then flip the cap back

1728
02:23:15,680 --> 02:23:21,040
down on the top. Have you thought about
something like that?

1729
02:23:18,640 --> 02:23:25,760
» Um, I have not. I would entertain that,
but that would take a significant amount

1730
02:23:23,760 --> 02:23:30,240
of research and engineering to determine
if the heat loads for the flex flexible

1731
02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:37,600
cables are not intended to be in
conduit. So, the EV cable that goes from

1732
02:23:33,120 --> 02:23:41,200
the charger to the plug is per the NAC,
you're not allowed to put that into

1733
02:23:38,880 --> 02:23:44,560
conduit. So, I don't I don't know if
there's a method there. Mhm.

1734
02:23:43,120 --> 02:23:48,080
» Um,
>> but I haven't thought about it much

1735
02:23:46,399 --> 02:23:51,920
further than getting to that point in
the NEC and saying that's that's a nogo.

1736
02:23:50,399 --> 02:23:55,200
» That's interesting. So then the other
item I wanted to bring up is that when I

1737
02:23:53,520 --> 02:24:01,120
was doing research for the EV ordinance
that I'm have presented to council and

1738
02:23:57,520 --> 02:24:07,200
that is currently being worked on that
um looked at a number of communities

1739
02:24:04,080 --> 02:24:12,960
that provide charging curbside charging
and they basically have a pillar that

1740
02:24:08,880 --> 02:24:20,000
comes up with a receptacle in it and
then people are issued an um a charging

1741
02:24:17,359 --> 02:24:24,399
cord that they then plug in when they're
charging and unplug when they're not

1742
02:24:21,840 --> 02:24:28,960
charging. And so I know there are some
cities that have these. I also know that

1743
02:24:26,160 --> 02:24:32,399
there's at least one company that will
do this, like if you have a private

1744
02:24:30,640 --> 02:24:36,720
business and you want to provide
charging at the street that they will

1745
02:24:34,960 --> 02:24:40,640
wire it up for you and that's what you
have. And then people who sign up to

1746
02:24:38,240 --> 02:24:45,439
this like charging club or whatever are
issued these

1747
02:24:42,720 --> 02:24:48,800
cords that you these charging cords that
you can connect to the pillar and to

1748
02:24:47,439 --> 02:24:53,439
your char and to your car. And then
there is no um cable hanging out there

1749
02:24:51,600 --> 02:24:57,680
that has to be wound around.
>> You could point me to a company. Um that

1750
02:24:55,439 --> 02:25:01,760
would appreciate it. I my research I
have not found any UL listed pieces of

1751
02:25:00,080 --> 02:25:02,640
equipment that meet that.
>> Okay.

1752
02:25:02,080 --> 02:25:07,120
» Description.
>> Well, be happy to share information that

1753
02:25:04,640 --> 02:25:12,319
that I've found if it will be helpful
for your design.

1754
02:25:09,359 --> 02:25:16,160
And then I'm wondering if for
council's activity if what I should be

1755
02:25:14,319 --> 02:25:23,200
doing and I'm not I don't want to do it
yet but would be to table the for the

1756
02:25:18,960 --> 02:25:27,760
discussion on this motion to enable us
to get more um I'm not making the motion

1757
02:25:25,680 --> 02:25:32,800
to table just saying if this is
something that will be helpful is to

1758
02:25:30,080 --> 02:25:37,680
table this so that enable every all
parties to get more information and to

1759
02:25:34,960 --> 02:25:41,785
be able to address this more concretely
at a future meeting. [snorts]

1760
02:25:43,040 --> 02:25:48,720
» I have one more question though for
Matt.

1761
02:25:45,920 --> 02:25:51,200
The way you are charging now, um, is
that just a level one charger?

1762
02:25:50,560 --> 02:25:55,840
» It is.
>> It is. Um, I would assume you'd have a

1763
02:25:53,840 --> 02:26:01,760
lot more flexibility with a level one
charger. Have you thought about just

1764
02:25:58,880 --> 02:26:05,920
having a pillar that could use that? I
would imagine you have a lot more

1765
02:26:04,000 --> 02:26:12,800
options. I know it takes forever. I have
a level one charger still. Um, but is

1766
02:26:10,080 --> 02:26:17,560
that at all an option where we wouldn't
have some of these issues with a 240?

1767
02:26:17,760 --> 02:26:23,240
» Ultimately,
I'm not going to speak to

1768
02:26:24,720 --> 02:26:29,920
the goal here was to futureproof.
>> I'm sorry. It was to what?

1769
02:26:28,960 --> 02:26:34,800
» To future proof.
>> Okay. I I don't want to be coming back

1770
02:26:31,359 --> 02:26:39,840
to council in in 10 years when EV car or
combustion cars are banned or whatever

1771
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:45,120
the situation may be. Obviously, the
landscape would be different then. But

1772
02:26:42,080 --> 02:26:49,600
um I think we can all see electric cars
being a benefit to society both to from

1773
02:26:47,359 --> 02:26:55,120
an environmental impact but also just
from you know the the the absolute chaos

1774
02:26:53,520 --> 02:27:00,720
and flux in the world and how that
affects gas prices and things of that

1775
02:26:57,040 --> 02:27:06,960
nature. Um, so the goal here was to to
be able to put a level two charger in if

1776
02:27:04,000 --> 02:27:10,240
it comes to it that
you know I I I don't really want to

1777
02:27:08,880 --> 02:27:14,280
speak further than that, but that's
that's where the intent was.

1778
02:27:15,359 --> 02:27:19,880
» Any other comments or questions from
council?

1779
02:27:19,920 --> 02:27:25,680
» May May I make just one more?
>> Yeah, I'm I'm going to ask that was my

1780
02:27:24,080 --> 02:27:29,120
next question. Does the applicant have
anything else to say?

1781
02:27:27,359 --> 02:27:32,479
Um
there were a couple of things. Um

1782
02:27:30,720 --> 02:27:37,680
absolutely
I will well I guess the one question I

1783
02:27:35,600 --> 02:27:42,960
have for Michelle would be is it our
respons I know it's our responsibility

1784
02:27:39,439 --> 02:27:46,800
to apply um in the event that we need to
uh get an application. Is that our

1785
02:27:45,120 --> 02:27:50,640
responsibility to do that research as
well?

1786
02:27:47,680 --> 02:27:53,200
» I I I can give you a name of somebody at
PennDOT.

1787
02:27:51,439 --> 02:27:57,680
» Okay. that you could contact to see if
you actually need a permit or they can

1788
02:27:55,520 --> 02:28:02,280
give you some sort of approval to do
that.

1789
02:27:58,160 --> 02:28:02,280
» Okay. Thank you. Um

1790
02:28:02,960 --> 02:28:10,319
I I kind of have lost my thought here.
I've um obviously been trying to figure

1791
02:28:08,479 --> 02:28:15,760
out a way to charge my car for a long
time. Um I know it's not a great

1792
02:28:14,080 --> 02:28:20,880
situation right now, but it does not
look like there's going to be a

1793
02:28:16,800 --> 02:28:29,000
resolution anytime soon. Um,
outside of this discussion, and maybe

1794
02:28:24,319 --> 02:28:29,000
I'll speak one more thing. Um,

1795
02:28:29,120 --> 02:28:35,280
I I've done I've done a spent a lot of
time that I don't really have trying to

1796
02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:41,040
figure this out. I think that I've
created a a fairly aesthetic

1797
02:28:38,240 --> 02:28:48,880
um
um design that is safe. It's defensible.

1798
02:28:44,880 --> 02:28:54,399
It's, you know, the the the coupling of
that to ah this is the the thing that I

1799
02:28:52,720 --> 02:29:00,479
wanted to mention. The coupling of that
to the dedicated parking spot is

1800
02:28:56,960 --> 02:29:06,800
intended in this situation to uh mimic
the driveway that we were denied by

1801
02:29:02,800 --> 02:29:09,920
zoning hearing board. If uh if I quite
frankly had done a little bit more

1802
02:29:08,319 --> 02:29:14,479
research and understood the level of
complexity and the legalities associated

1803
02:29:12,720 --> 02:29:18,080
with zoning hearing board, I probably
would have been a little bit more

1804
02:29:15,520 --> 02:29:23,359
prepared for that situation. Uh we might
not be in this situation right now. We

1805
02:29:19,840 --> 02:29:28,640
might I might be parking there.
The agreement that we had put together

1806
02:29:25,120 --> 02:29:34,240
was intended to alleviate the need for
that zoning variance. And in order to do

1807
02:29:31,840 --> 02:29:40,399
that, we needed a dedicated spot as well
as the ability to plug an electric car

1808
02:29:36,720 --> 02:29:47,200
in in the future that we all know that
is coming. So that's kind of the drive

1809
02:29:44,240 --> 02:29:54,319
here. In my mind, if it's one or the
other, it's not it's not uh an equitable

1810
02:29:51,280 --> 02:30:01,040
trade. Um,
and that's kind of where I'll I'll end

1811
02:29:56,960 --> 02:30:05,120
that discussion. Um, moving forward, I
don't believe that we're going to have

1812
02:30:02,080 --> 02:30:12,399
resolution anytime soon. As I mentioned,
is there some guidance that I can do an

1813
02:30:10,479 --> 02:30:18,479
an ADA compliant cord cover for the
level one charger? Something that we can

1814
02:30:16,240 --> 02:30:23,200
quite frankly get this monstrosity out
of my the front of my yard. I I'm

1815
02:30:20,880 --> 02:30:28,319
looking for guidance. I'm not trying to
be malicious here. I just I want the

1816
02:30:26,160 --> 02:30:35,040
right answer.
Is it possible for for Matt to work with

1817
02:30:32,399 --> 02:30:40,240
Barry Isit, the gentleman who sent us
all of the very technical specs? I mean,

1818
02:30:38,479 --> 02:30:43,760
is that a thing that's done?
>> I mean, I think that he would have to

1819
02:30:42,000 --> 02:30:48,080
work with Anna as our representative.
She is the front-facing person when when

1820
02:30:45,680 --> 02:30:52,720
he would go apply for something and
Greg, tell me if I'm wrong, and she

1821
02:30:49,840 --> 02:30:58,800
would then relay. But that's just
>> it. It would be coordinated through Anna

1822
02:30:55,760 --> 02:31:05,600
and and Craig. uh on a permit level. I I
think the problem here in the the issue

1823
02:31:02,080 --> 02:31:10,160
Matt's referencing is without council
approval, nothing can really be

1824
02:31:07,760 --> 02:31:16,880
installed within the right of way. So
any type of permanent fixture can't go

1825
02:31:14,240 --> 02:31:23,120
forward uh in any way, shape, or form,
whether it's it's burying a cable or or

1826
02:31:19,520 --> 02:31:31,720
a cord or whatever to to provide it. And
from a a liability standpoint, uh having

1827
02:31:27,760 --> 02:31:31,720
a some type of

1828
02:31:31,920 --> 02:31:43,680
uh obstruction or impediment across the
sidewalk uh is is not something that I

1829
02:31:39,600 --> 02:31:48,720
can recommend uh to council at this
juncture, which is why we were this

1830
02:31:46,000 --> 02:31:54,960
which is as Matt stated is the basis of
of this conversation. So I I

1831
02:31:52,800 --> 02:31:58,880
I'm not sure if there is, you know,
there are there are certainly I know

1832
02:31:56,399 --> 02:32:05,200
you're referencing an ADA compliant, you
know, uh, wire cover for certain

1833
02:32:02,640 --> 02:32:11,439
applications, whether in a in an
auditorium or something for for someone

1834
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:17,520
to to transverse. I'm not sure if that
would ever be acceptable in a a public

1835
02:32:14,479 --> 02:32:22,479
right-of-way situation and and absent
maybe Michelle and I reviewing that

1836
02:32:19,920 --> 02:32:25,760
because I can tell by that by Michelle's
gesture there that that I that we don't

1837
02:32:24,399 --> 02:32:31,600
know off the top of our head whether
that exists, we c we can look into it.

1838
02:32:28,880 --> 02:32:36,720
Um, I'm not I I will be honest, Matt.
I'm not confident in any way that there

1839
02:32:34,000 --> 02:32:42,720
is something because the the whole point
of a rightway is that it is unobstructed

1840
02:32:39,680 --> 02:32:47,760
in in all ways. Um, but council's
blessing, we can certainly explore it in

1841
02:32:45,200 --> 02:32:53,680
the in the interim here.
>> So, I have a question. If uh if this

1842
02:32:50,560 --> 02:33:00,319
doesn't get tabled and the motion is
denied, what are the next steps for the

1843
02:32:56,080 --> 02:33:00,319
Newman's? Is it just done?

1844
02:33:01,240 --> 02:33:04,640
» [laughter]
>> I

1845
02:33:02,800 --> 02:33:09,120
» no
>> I mean

1846
02:33:06,560 --> 02:33:12,240
» is it done is um
>> always come back again. I mean it's not

1847
02:33:11,040 --> 02:33:16,399
it's not the end of the
>> I guess my question is they they they

1848
02:33:14,640 --> 02:33:21,120
will have a course of action to be able
to try to do this again should it get

1849
02:33:18,720 --> 02:33:25,760
denied.
This is all discretionary in council's

1850
02:33:23,520 --> 02:33:31,200
th this particular motion to the pillar
agreement is all discretionary for

1851
02:33:27,920 --> 02:33:34,640
council. So it could if it gets denied
it can certainly be added to a future

1852
02:33:33,040 --> 02:33:37,640
agenda again.
>> Um

1853
02:33:38,240 --> 02:33:43,280
that's answering your question.
>> How long cable the permanent cable from

1854
02:33:41,760 --> 02:33:46,640
the pedestal to your car that'll be
there all the time. How long is that?

1855
02:33:45,120 --> 02:33:48,479
» It's 25 ft.
>> I'm sorry. What was that?

1856
02:33:47,520 --> 02:33:52,800
» It's 25 ft.
>> 25. So, you are going to have a 25 ft

1857
02:33:50,160 --> 02:33:58,399
cable.
>> I haven't reached out to the

1858
02:33:55,680 --> 02:34:03,680
uh manufacturer to find out if there's a
sanctioned way to shorten it, but that

1859
02:34:00,240 --> 02:34:06,720
is a possibility. Um, as Julia
mentioned, I think it can be

1860
02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:10,319
disassembled according to the
instructions, but whether or not they

1861
02:34:08,560 --> 02:34:14,840
would sanction that and it would still
be ULlisted, I don't know.

1862
02:34:14,880 --> 02:34:21,760
So, my suggestion again is to table this
to allow everyone to get more

1863
02:34:19,280 --> 02:34:28,240
information so we can reconvene and
discuss this with um having some of our

1864
02:34:25,760 --> 02:34:33,439
questions answered and Matt doing more
research, us doing more research, be

1865
02:34:30,720 --> 02:34:37,840
able to talk to our um our consultants,
understand this better, and then be able

1866
02:34:35,760 --> 02:34:41,920
to look at this again, which might be a
little bit easier than voting this

1867
02:34:39,760 --> 02:34:46,960
motion down and then having to bring it
back again and starting this all over.

1868
02:34:45,600 --> 02:34:53,200
So, if you'd like me to make that
motion, I'm happy to do it.

1869
02:34:49,200 --> 02:34:57,439
» May I comment? So, um I to me it really
makes no difference whether we table. I

1870
02:34:55,359 --> 02:35:03,439
don't have an objection to tableabling.
Um if we were to deny as as Sister said,

1871
02:35:01,439 --> 02:35:08,960
it would be we could essentially deny
without prejudice. So, um it could be

1872
02:35:06,080 --> 02:35:12,880
reintroduced um whenever. So, from that
perspective, it it really makes little

1873
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:22,080
difference to me. I mean, my only
concern right now is as as

1874
02:35:15,760 --> 02:35:26,880
um Mr. Newman said, it's a it's it's a
you use the word monstrosity, but

1875
02:35:24,240 --> 02:35:31,040
anyway, it's an uncomfortable situation
on the street, and the sooner we get

1876
02:35:28,479 --> 02:35:38,960
this resolved one way or the other, the
better. that you're you're I think um

1877
02:35:36,080 --> 02:35:45,120
hoping, anticipating, whatever, that
this gets resolved in a way that allows

1878
02:35:40,800 --> 02:35:49,600
you to put a post in. Um and so you're
trying to keep the car charged in the

1879
02:35:46,399 --> 02:35:55,840
meantime. Um from from my perspective,
and as I said, I'm not for um allowing

1880
02:35:52,880 --> 02:36:01,920
the charging post at this time until
such time as we have an ordinance that

1881
02:35:58,000 --> 02:36:09,439
allows it. Um, I think it's important
that uh we we get some resolution here

1882
02:36:06,080 --> 02:36:12,960
so that um if if it's yes, it's yes. And
if it's no, you're you're going to have

1883
02:36:10,960 --> 02:36:18,960
to deal with the the fact that you have
no charger for your car and fix your

1884
02:36:16,479 --> 02:36:25,600
hardship that you've created in some
other way. But all that being said,

1885
02:36:22,960 --> 02:36:30,880
um that was just my editorial comment.
It doesn't really change that we can

1886
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:30,880
either table or deny

1887
02:36:32,479 --> 02:36:41,840
I mean, in effect, is there really any
difference between tableabling or

1888
02:36:38,160 --> 02:36:43,920
» or denying without prejudice? Is is
>> what would make it easier for Matt to

1889
02:36:43,520 --> 02:36:49,240
come back,
>> right?

1890
02:36:44,479 --> 02:36:49,240
» There there's there is no difference.

1891
02:36:50,880 --> 02:36:55,280
» I think
>> so.

1892
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:59,600
I would I would prefer to table it if
that is the feeling in the room from

1893
02:36:57,600 --> 02:37:03,680
fellow counselors that this needs
further discussion.

1894
02:37:02,240 --> 02:37:10,000
» Okay. I'm going to make a motion to
table this pending um the to offer

1895
02:37:07,200 --> 02:37:13,600
council the ability to um do further
research as previously stated.

1896
02:37:12,080 --> 02:37:15,600
» I have a motion to table. Do I have a
second?

1897
02:37:14,720 --> 02:37:21,520
» Second.
>> All those in favor? I

1898
02:37:17,840 --> 02:37:24,080
» I I
tabled.

1899
02:37:25,520 --> 02:37:33,600
I'm sorry. We don't take public comment
when we table motions. Sorry.

1900
02:37:32,414 --> 02:37:36,160
[laughter]
>> Doesn't happen. Sorry.

1901
02:37:34,720 --> 02:37:41,720
» There's a public comment period.
>> Yeah, there's public comment at the end

1902
02:37:37,920 --> 02:37:41,720
that you can speak at.

1903
02:37:42,399 --> 02:37:50,960
» So, it's been tabled so we can try to
come to a solution

1904
02:37:47,359 --> 02:37:55,120
and and introduce it at the April cycle.
So, what am I to do with my monstrosity?

1905
02:37:54,319 --> 02:37:56,640
» Take it down.
>> I would

1906
02:37:55,760 --> 02:37:58,399
» Nobody's
>> I would tell

1907
02:37:57,600 --> 02:38:03,040
» we can what?
>> We can certainly talk after the meeting.

1908
02:38:01,200 --> 02:38:08,080
» Nobody from Burrow has asked me to take
it down, but I did receive a solic uh a

1909
02:38:06,000 --> 02:38:12,000
court summon about it. So, I just not
sure if everybody's aware here.

1910
02:38:10,479 --> 02:38:15,120
» Well, hang hang on. We're we're not
approving its existence in any way,

1911
02:38:14,399 --> 02:38:19,040
shape, or form.
>> I know that, but nobody's asked me to

1912
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:21,920
take it down. You haven't been issued a
violation notice yet?

1913
02:38:20,160 --> 02:38:24,479
» Yes, he has. He's been citation. He has
a court date.

1914
02:38:22,560 --> 02:38:28,240
» He was issued a citation. I I can't
speak before the citation.

1915
02:38:26,720 --> 02:38:31,280
» It went straight It didn't get he didn't
get a violation for this. It went

1916
02:38:29,520 --> 02:38:35,760
straight to citation.
>> It was a violation for the previous post

1917
02:38:33,439 --> 02:38:40,319
which has been removed.
>> The and

1918
02:38:37,840 --> 02:38:45,560
the code officer interpreted that as a
continuation of the same violation.

1919
02:38:46,960 --> 02:38:56,280
Okay. Thank you.
>> All right. Uh, moving on. Manager's

1920
02:38:53,280 --> 02:38:56,280
report.

1921
02:39:00,160 --> 02:39:09,680
» So, there I have one item of business
that um we discussed at the last meeting

1922
02:39:05,280 --> 02:39:18,960
regarding um the
action to solicit bids for landscaping

1923
02:39:12,640 --> 02:39:26,080
services. Um we're looking to get more
um performance and for more economical

1924
02:39:22,560 --> 02:39:33,120
services which I'm believe we can uh
accomplish and we'll do that through

1925
02:39:28,720 --> 02:39:39,840
this motion um this evening to solicit
bids for the landscaping services.

1926
02:39:37,359 --> 02:39:43,840
» I would entertain a motion from council.
Um, I'll make a motion to authorize

1927
02:39:41,920 --> 02:39:46,319
solicitation of bids for landscaping
services.

1928
02:39:44,960 --> 02:39:48,479
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1929
02:39:47,439 --> 02:39:51,680
» Second.
>> Any comments or questions from council

1930
02:39:50,560 --> 02:39:55,120
on this? And
>> I'll just mention for council's benefit

1931
02:39:53,200 --> 02:39:58,319
that we did review the bid package and
it's it's ready to go upon your

1932
02:39:56,720 --> 02:40:03,280
authorization.
>> Thank you. Any public comment on this

1933
02:40:01,439 --> 02:40:05,760
motion?
>> All those in favor?

1934
02:40:05,120 --> 02:40:08,800
» I
>> I.

1935
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:10,560
» Any nays? Motion passes. I keep
forgetting there's a lag there.

1936
02:40:10,160 --> 02:40:15,120
» Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, we've moved um the only item

1937
02:40:13,120 --> 02:40:18,640
under my report went earlier with Greg's
report. So, I will uh move on to the

1938
02:40:17,359 --> 02:40:22,479
approval of minutes and entertain
motions.

1939
02:40:20,800 --> 02:40:27,760
» I'd like to make a motion to approve the
February 4th, 2026 work session minutes.

1940
02:40:26,319 --> 02:40:28,960
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1941
02:40:28,319 --> 02:40:31,840
» Second.
>> Thank you. Any comments or questions

1942
02:40:30,319 --> 02:40:37,200
from council on these notes? These
minutes?

1943
02:40:33,359 --> 02:40:40,160
» All those in favor? I Any? Motion
passes.

1944
02:40:38,560 --> 02:40:44,000
» I'd like to make a motion to approve the
February 26, 2026 council meeting

1945
02:40:43,280 --> 02:40:45,840
minutes.
>> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a

1946
02:40:45,359 --> 02:40:48,000
second?
>> Second.

1947
02:40:46,479 --> 02:40:52,319
» Any comments or questions from council
on these minutes?

1948
02:40:50,160 --> 02:40:55,760
» All those in favor?
>> I.

1949
02:40:53,040 --> 02:40:59,439
» Any naysay? Motion passes.
Okay. Moving on to budget and finance.

1950
02:40:57,520 --> 02:41:03,840
I'll entertain a motion for the
consolidated expenditure report. I'd

1951
02:41:01,600 --> 02:41:08,720
like to make a motion to accept subject
to audit the consolidated expenditure

1952
02:41:06,399 --> 02:41:12,600
report for the month of February
totaling $314,826.17.

1953
02:41:14,319 --> 02:41:17,439
Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second?

1954
02:41:16,800 --> 02:41:21,200
» Second.
>> Thank you. Any comments or questions

1955
02:41:18,800 --> 02:41:25,680
from council on this?
Any public comment?

1956
02:41:23,439 --> 02:41:30,000
All those in favor?
>> Any nay?

1957
02:41:27,040 --> 02:41:35,840
» Any nays? Motion passes. Okay. Gina
personnel Uh, no additional activity. We

1958
02:41:33,280 --> 02:41:41,359
are still looking for two members for
the uh, human relations commission.

1959
02:41:38,800 --> 02:41:46,880
» Okay, great. Thank you. Any old business
from council?

1960
02:41:43,840 --> 02:41:50,520
Any announcements?
Public to be heard.

1961
02:41:52,319 --> 02:41:55,640
Please come up.

1962
02:42:00,880 --> 02:42:09,520
Joe Lovey, 151 North State Street. You
guys know me. Uh, it's in reference to

1963
02:42:05,600 --> 02:42:14,720
the uh, bear with me. 239 Court Street
Wall. I wanted you to there's something

1964
02:42:12,160 --> 02:42:20,640
interesting and I think the historical
guys are wrong on this. Uh, my house is

1965
02:42:18,080 --> 02:42:27,760
233 years old.
Every every chimney in the town has blue

1966
02:42:24,880 --> 02:42:31,520
stone on the top of the chimney. The
reason why they put blue stone on the

1967
02:42:29,439 --> 02:42:37,680
top of the chimney, not the regular
stone, is because all stones absorb

1968
02:42:34,000 --> 02:42:42,640
water. Blue stone have tighter pores.
Okay? So what it is is that the reason

1969
02:42:40,080 --> 02:42:48,479
why first of all if you look at other
places if you use a brownstone it's got

1970
02:42:45,600 --> 02:42:52,479
to be almost a foot thick because when
the water hits it it absorbs in it it's

1971
02:42:50,240 --> 02:42:57,280
going to crack and break. The only wall
in our town that we had something like

1972
02:42:54,399 --> 02:43:01,600
that was on State Street right next to
the Fitch building and if you recall it

1973
02:42:59,920 --> 02:43:07,359
had triangles on the top. Do you
remember? Okay. That got removed. Okay.

1974
02:43:05,280 --> 02:43:11,600
That was historical as ever. The reason
why it got removed was is because the

1975
02:43:09,439 --> 02:43:17,280
water sat in there, busted it apart and
so forth. And they put the blue stone.

1976
02:43:14,240 --> 02:43:23,359
So I have to be honest with you, when
you put stone on the facade, you can use

1977
02:43:20,800 --> 02:43:28,640
many different types of stone, okay? But
when you put it on the top, you want the

1978
02:43:25,840 --> 02:43:35,120
stone with the most types of pores.
That's why, and I use mine as the

1979
02:43:30,960 --> 02:43:40,640
example, I put up a new piece on mine
years ago. They only put it a half inch

1980
02:43:37,840 --> 02:43:45,680
thick. The reason was they couldn't lift
it that high. Mine's an inch and a half.

1981
02:43:43,439 --> 02:43:50,880
Okay. Reason is is that it's tougher to
break through. And all of a sudden, it

1982
02:43:48,399 --> 02:43:54,640
it weighs 200 and some odd pounds. They
couldn't get it up that high. They were

1983
02:43:52,479 --> 02:43:59,840
pulling mules. So, at the end of the
day, there is the history, but there is

1984
02:43:57,760 --> 02:44:05,120
what is today. And if our founding
fathers knew this, they would also use

1985
02:44:03,200 --> 02:44:10,640
materials. They wouldn't use stone.
We've got better materials.

1986
02:44:07,760 --> 02:44:17,040
So, what I'd like you to do is the
historical view board is a review board.

1987
02:44:14,319 --> 02:44:23,840
It's there. It's a recommendation. They
say no. You guys could say yes. I really

1988
02:44:19,760 --> 02:44:27,760
want you to think about this is that
they violated something. They're willing

1989
02:44:25,920 --> 02:44:32,240
to pay the fees and so forth. But I have
to be honest with you, if you make them

1990
02:44:29,840 --> 02:44:36,479
put it's their investment. If you make
them put a different stone on the top,

1991
02:44:34,319 --> 02:44:41,279
every good mason out there will tell you
that blue stone is the best material to

1992
02:44:39,279 --> 02:44:45,279
put on the top. It should also have a
ridge on the bottom so when the water

1993
02:44:43,200 --> 02:44:50,800
when the water comes down, it hits a
drain ridge that the drip doesn't come

1994
02:44:48,479 --> 02:44:55,040
down the wall and pop the mortar joints.
Whether they did that or not, I don't

1995
02:44:52,399 --> 02:44:58,560
know. I I I've just learned all these
things. But I have to be honest with you

1996
02:44:56,720 --> 02:45:04,319
guys.
We have people making the town look

1997
02:45:01,279 --> 02:45:08,560
better. Okay, it's a stone, believe it
or not. That is, would it look cooler

1998
02:45:06,800 --> 02:45:12,560
with the natural stone? Oh, without a
doubt. But I'll tell you what, it's got

1999
02:45:10,720 --> 02:45:18,399
to be really, really thick. It's going
to weigh a ton. It won't even look app

2000
02:45:14,479 --> 02:45:22,399
propo because the wall is so big. Okay.
I only came up here to help them and to

2001
02:45:20,240 --> 02:45:28,720
provide you a guidance.
It's not modern. My house has a and and

2002
02:45:25,840 --> 02:45:32,399
and and Julia Julia stone remember your
you she had a stone a flag stone on the

2003
02:45:30,720 --> 02:45:35,359
top of her chimney and when the
hurricane came by it blew it off

2004
02:45:34,640 --> 02:45:39,760
» the tornado
>> the tornado came by it blew it off

2005
02:45:37,359 --> 02:45:43,359
that's why it's got to be a certain uh
weight and so forth but at the end of

2006
02:45:41,279 --> 02:45:47,600
the day I just want you to think about
that

2007
02:45:44,960 --> 02:45:51,600
that the historical review board they
made their decision it's done okay at

2008
02:45:50,080 --> 02:45:55,600
the end of the day I have to be honest
with you that is the best stone And you

2009
02:45:53,840 --> 02:45:59,279
could ask other stone people. You can go
to Route One stone quarry and so forth.

2010
02:45:57,520 --> 02:46:04,800
That is the best stone for a top of a
wall. Two, when the ice and so forth

2011
02:46:02,240 --> 02:46:07,920
comes that it will not crack and so
forth. I I'm just trying to help. And

2012
02:46:06,880 --> 02:46:08,880
this other gentleman.
>> Hey Joe.

2013
02:46:08,560 --> 02:46:13,120
» Yeah.
>> That's So first of all, um, you have it

2014
02:46:10,880 --> 02:46:17,040
right in terms of process, right? It's
it's been to Harb. It's now to us. We

2015
02:46:15,279 --> 02:46:19,439
can kick it back to Harb if we want, but
>> you're just going to kick it back and

2016
02:46:18,080 --> 02:46:22,399
forth. Yeah. We're not going to do that.
>> You have that. You have that right. You

2017
02:46:20,640 --> 02:46:25,439
got that right. And I appreciate your
comment and um about the about the stone

2018
02:46:24,960 --> 02:46:29,680
quality.
>> It was just to help you. Okay. So, at

2019
02:46:27,439 --> 02:46:32,000
the end of the day, Okay. The other
thing is is I was just going to try to

2020
02:46:30,960 --> 02:46:35,120
just help this gentleman.
>> You got two minutes.

2021
02:46:32,960 --> 02:46:37,920
» Okay, that's cool. But [laughter] but at
the end of the day, I I sorry I don't

2022
02:46:36,479 --> 02:46:40,800
know your name, but I actually thought
we were lynching somebody when I went

2023
02:46:39,439 --> 02:46:44,800
down the street.
>> The only thing I could say is this. If

2024
02:46:42,960 --> 02:46:49,279
you're going to keep it up, take all the
flowers and so forth off of it because

2025
02:46:46,479 --> 02:46:54,800
you're just attracting attention. Okay?
But my thing is is that I I I really

2026
02:46:52,000 --> 02:46:58,080
believe that that Chris
Chris hit the nail on the head. It's a

2027
02:46:56,960 --> 02:47:01,760
difficult decision. You don't have an
you don't have an ordinance.

2028
02:47:00,240 --> 02:47:06,000
You don't have an ordinance. So
truthfully, unfortunately, these guys

2029
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:10,960
don't have an ordinance for EV. And I
have to be honest with you,

2030
02:47:08,319 --> 02:47:14,399
I don't know how you buy a car that all
of a sudden you have to charge. Nothing

2031
02:47:12,560 --> 02:47:19,120
against you. Don't take it personal. But
all of a sudden it's like, where do I

2032
02:47:16,960 --> 02:47:25,040
charge it? You're very lucky. We have a
Waw Wa now right down the road. So, the

2033
02:47:21,920 --> 02:47:28,640
only thing I could say is is that
charge it full full steam ahead down at

2034
02:47:27,279 --> 02:47:33,359
the road and then you could park your
car anywhere and so forth. Is it

2035
02:47:30,479 --> 02:47:37,680
inconvenience? It is, but unfortunately
there are only about a handful and and I

2036
02:47:35,680 --> 02:47:43,920
I I went around. There's probably two
handfuls of car of houses on this town

2037
02:47:41,200 --> 02:47:47,920
that don't have a driveway and they're
your situation. That's equivalent to

2038
02:47:45,920 --> 02:47:52,319
living in Philadelphia.
Okay. And at the end of the day, it's

2039
02:47:50,319 --> 02:47:56,399
going back and forth, legal, not legal,
and so forth. We don't have an

2040
02:47:54,319 --> 02:48:01,760
ordinance. We have somebody that's
handicapped. At the end of the day,

2041
02:47:59,439 --> 02:48:06,800
we can give them a handicapped spot, but
at the end, let's be realistic.

2042
02:48:04,479 --> 02:48:10,000
You guys really don't want to have 20
foot cables. And I will let you know

2043
02:48:08,479 --> 02:48:13,200
something. I work for BMW.
>> All right, Joe, your time is up. I'll

2044
02:48:11,680 --> 02:48:17,680
give you I'll give you 30 more seconds.
>> 30 more seconds.

2045
02:48:14,800 --> 02:48:20,479
If this gentleman changes any of his
electrical

2046
02:48:19,200 --> 02:48:24,720
pieces that he buys from the
manufacturer, your warranty is null and

2047
02:48:22,399 --> 02:48:27,920
void. Okay? But at the end of the day,
I'm just going to let you know

2048
02:48:25,680 --> 02:48:31,200
something. You probably don't want, you
know, because you don't have it. You

2049
02:48:29,040 --> 02:48:36,399
don't want these cables hanging out all
over on a on a street.

2050
02:48:34,720 --> 02:48:39,200
I It's going to be a disaster. Sorry to
bother you guys. Just to thank you, Joe,

2051
02:48:38,240 --> 02:48:43,479
guys.
>> Any additional public to be heard?

2052
02:48:44,640 --> 02:48:49,680
All right. Seeing none, I will entertain
a motion to adjurnn.

2053
02:48:48,640 --> 02:48:51,600
» So moved.
>> Do I have a second?

2054
02:48:50,880 --> 02:48:54,080
» Second.
>> Thank you. All those in favor?

2055
02:48:53,520 --> 02:48:57,520
» I
>> I.

2056
02:48:54,640 --> 02:49:00,840
» Any nays? Motion passes.
>> Thank you everybody.