To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all.
» Okay. Before we get started, I'd like to announce that after our work session
last week, council met in executive sk session to discuss ongoing litigation.
I would also like to welcome members of Troop Scout 29 who are here with us
tonight to observe their local government uh to get their citizenship
in the community merit badge. Welcome. >> Okay, moving on to public to be heard.
Does anyone have any uh public to be heard for items not listed on tonight's
agenda?
» Please enter the conference pin number. >> Sorry, we have someone joining us
remotely.
That pin is invalid for this conference. Please enter the conference pin number.
» That pin is invalid for this conference. Please enter the conference pin.
» Judy, can you go see if there's anything we can do to at least turn the volume
down a little bit so we can keep going? Thank you.
Um, so I see no public to be heard for items not on the agenda.
Okay. Then before we move on to our presentations, I'd just like to ask, is
there anyone here um on behalf of their certificate of appropriateness being
heard tonight?
Okay. Well, then I was going to move those forward if we had someone uh here
present, but since we don't, we'll move on and we'll start with the EAC Bowman's
Hill plant grant presentation.
I think by way of introduction this is the reason for this presentation or are
you going to be saying that some >> you can
» you'll let me do it. Okay. Um, okay. The New Town received a grant from um
Bowman's um Hill Wildflower uh um for planting native plants in three
locations in the burrow, one being Patriots Park, one being the New Town
Common Park, and the other being um along a drainage swale off of Chancellor
Street. The two parks have signs in them that have educational information in
them regarding native plants, but the swale does not have that and we are
required to have an educational component to receive this grant and
summer u bound from the uh EAC has kindly offered to make that presentation
to us. >> All right. Well, good evening. My name
is Summer and I'm a member of the environmental advisory council here in
New Town Burough. Um, as Julia said, I'm here to, uh, present the educational
component of the Bowman's Hill Wildflower Preserve Grant that was
awarded to the burrow last fall. Uh, this presentation will focus on New
Town Burrow's beloved storm water discharge system named Old Skunky. We
will go over fun information about Old Skunky, Old Skunky's role in storm water
management, and how native plants are helping to maintain New Town Burough's
storm water systems. What we won't talk about is how Old Skunky got its name.
I'll leave that for interpretation.
Before we get into the thick of Old Skunky's history, here's a map of where
Old Skunkkey flows through the burrow. It starts at the northeast corner of
Washington Avenue and flows southwest towards South Street or South State
Street and eventually discharges into the New Town Creek.
Now, here's some history about ye old skunky.
Old skunky was originally considered a tributary of the New Town Creek. A
tributary is a stream or river that flows into a larger river or body of
water. Now, a fun fact, New Town Creek is a tributary of the Namin Creek, which
flows into the Delaware River drainage basin. The Delaware River Basin provides
fresh drinking water to over 15 million people spanning four states and includes
major cities like Philadelphia and New York City.
Old Skunky is one of two surface water resources in the burrow and is
considered an open storm water sewer system. So for reference, the EPA
defines storm water as rainwater or melted snow that runs off streets,
lawns, and other sites. When storm water is absorbed into soil, it is filtered
and ultimately replenishes aquafers or flows into streams and rivers.
Storm water runoff has also been identified as a number one cause of
pollution to rivers and streams, which is the source of our drinking water. As
New Town became more developed, Old Skunky's channel was diverted. There is
a section of Old Skunky between Chancellor Street and Lincoln A where
the stream was enclosed. The enclosure causes the intersection of Penn and
Chancellor Streets to flood due to its incapacity to handle excess storm water.
More development in the burrow meant more issues for our dear old Skunky. You
might even say Skunky was having a stinky time.
In the 1960s, when Washington Village was being developed, stormwater
management was not typically a consideration in cons in construction
planning. More development means more impervious pave surfaces. This was bad
news for Old Skunky. Since there was no storm water management plan, poor old
Skunky experienced more runoff, flooding, and erosion. The flooding was
so severe that eventually the burrow had to replace the inlets and piping under
South State Street.
Excessive runoff from flooding and waste disposal may give you a hint to what
earned Old Skunky its endearing name, but that's just a guess. After decades
of what old skunky may have called the H2O no years, restoration projects were
underway. For example, the retention basin at New Town Station alleviates
some of Old Skunky's water load. The basin can carry approximately 600,000
gallons of water. That's about 5 million pounds.
Recent projects have studied New Town Burough storm water management and the
importance of Old Skunky's role. These projects have helped with slope
regrading, bank stabilization, and the installment of native plants.
For a burrow with a population of about 2,300 people, Old Skunky is a vital
system for storm water management. It is responsible for 23 of the burough storm
water discharge. Despite its wary and sometimes stinky
past, Old Skunky continues to flow.
So, now that you know about Old Skunky, let's learn about Old Skunky's swale.
Old Skunky's swale is a vegetative area where Old Skunky runs through Chancellor
Street. The swale is about 300 ft long and 20 to 30 feet wide. A swale is
simply defined as a lowlying space or depression between ridges. If you make a
fist and look at the indented space between your knuckles, that is what a
swell looks like. A swell's main purpose is to collect and manage storm water.
Storm water can be thought of as water looking for a safe place to go. When it
doesn't have when it doesn't have somewhere to go, it causes flooding.
During its search, storm water picks up pollutants along the way. A swale
provides storm water a place to flow into and to gradually seep into the
ground. This is how a swale slows the storm water's infiltration rate.
Infiltration rate is a measure of how fast water enters soil. As the storm
water seeps into the ground, the soil also filters a storm water of its
pollutants. So instead of the storm water flooding and polluting the New
Town Creek, Old Skunky Swale offers storm water a chance to collect, slow
down, get filter through the soil, and infiltrate our water table.
Swells can also be a hospitable landscape for diverse ecosystems.
A soil with native plants creates habitat and food for animals and
pollinators, which in turn benefits our community as a whole. The generous grant
from Bowman Hill Wildflower Preserve has given us the opportunity to add
additional native plants to the swale's embankment areas.
So, here's some pictures of the swale during the drought last summer. A cool
thing about swailes is that they have an amazing ability to retain moisture,
especially with the help of native plants and their root systems. You can
see the vegetation around the soil is still pretty green despite how dry it
was.
Old skunky and it swale playing an essential row role in the burrow's MS4
program. MS4 stands for municipal separate storm sewer system. You can try
saying that 10 times fast. As defined by the PA,
MS4s are conveyances or systems of conveyances, including roads with
drainage systems, municipal streets, catch basins, curbs, gutters, ditches,
man-made channels, or storm drains that are owned or operated by a public
entity. They are designed or used for collecting or conveying storm water and
are not a combined sewer or part of a publicly owned treatment works. MS4 is a
required program/permit that is regulated by the DP, the Department of
Environmental Protection. MS4 program's main goal is to regulate
storm water, how it is discharged, and the associated pollutants.
Every MS4 permittee establishes a storm water management program. The program
addresses the impacts of stormwater runoff and solution plans.
The S SWMP requires a focus on six minimum control measures. Some of these
include construction site runoff control, pollution prevention,
education, and outreach amongst others.
Now, after all this talk about Old Skunky and storm water management, what
is storm water management? How do native plants help with storm water management?
Well, I'm so glad you all asked. By definition, storm water management is
the use of practices to reduce, detain, slow down, or remove pollutants from
surface water runoff and can be used to restore natural processes previously
provided by nature. Old skunky and its swale have the ability to do all these
things, especially with the help from native plants.
So, what are native plants? Native plants are defined as a species that
occurs naturally in a given location either because it evolved there or
dispersed to that location without benefit of human activity.
Native plants have a plethora of benefits for the environment, animals
and humans. So next we will see how native plants contribute to storm water
management, erosion control and biodiversity.
Native plants have remarkable abilities to fix many man-made problems. To quote
the infamous Io Wilson, "There can be no purpose more inspiring than to begin the
age of restoration, reweaving the wondrous diversity of life that still
surrounds us." End quote. As opposed to non-native or
exotic exotic plants, native plants have an extensive root system that can hold
on to soil. Their roots prevent erosion, increase storm water retention, and
slows down the infiltration rate of groundwater while filtering out
pollutants. Native plants provide necessities like
food and habitat for local fauna and flora. This is also how native plants
increase biodiversity. For example, echynasia, the common name
is cone flower, feeds our pollinators and animals with its nectar and seeds.
When the seasons change, burrowing bees will overwinter in the woody stems.
Echanasia also has medicinal properties for humans as a remedy for colds and
immune support. As an extra bonus, native plants minimize maintenance
costs. They require less mowing, less watering, and no chemical or fertilizer
applications. Sounds like a pretty good deal.
So, this is a list of the plants that we planted uh around the soil at Old Skunky
from Bowman's Hill. Here are some of the plants being
installed. They don't look like much in these photos, but once they're
established, they will fill out nicely. So to wrap up this presentation, I'd
like to showcase a couple of the native plants we received from Bowman Hill
Wildflower Preserve. This one's called Clethral on a also
known as summer sweet or sweet pepper bush. It has fragrant and very
attractive flowers. Excellent food source for pollinators and it's also
deer resistant. It tolerates wet landscapes and does well in sandy soils.
In fact, it's often used for erosion control along bodies of water. The next
time you go down the shore, notice how erosion has affected the shoreline. You
might notice that these areas with dunes and plants are much more stable than
those without. So for those of you with shore houses and experiencing the
effects of erosion, this native is a great plant to keep in mind.
This is picntheum, also known as mountain mint. Oh, the picture didn't
show up. Well, it's not an aggressive spreader like other mints you might find
at a garden center. It's fragrant and can act as a natural repellent for
mosquitoes and ticks. It's also deer and rabbit resistant. It enjoys moist areas,
so it's a great plant choice for old skunky. Is also fairly drought tolerant.
It's a wonderful food source for pollinators. If you plant this, your
yard will also be humming with honeybees, hummingbirds, and
butterflies. The leaves have culinary uses as a seasoning or a tea to treat
colds, help with anxiety, insomnia, tummy aches, and so many other ailments.
Because it's a native plant, it doesn't require fertilizer or pesticides, so it
also reduces landscaping costs and will save you money.
There's the picture. There we are. Uh on behalf of the New Town Bureau and
the EAC, I'd like to extend a ginormous thank you to Bowman's Hill Wildflower
Preserve for awarding us this grant uh making our community a more
environmentally sound and wonderful place to live. I thank you all for
listening and being here today. I hope you enjoyed this presentation and maybe
learned something. If you're feeling inspired, reach out to your local
environmental advisory council or township about how you can get involved
in projects that make a difference. Because without a thriving environment,
where would we be? Uh, you can stay tuned to New Town Burrow's new
newsletters and the environmental advisory council's new web page for more
updates about upcoming projects. And uh, I thank you.
are currently the only person in this conference.
So now we'll move on to our next presentation which is about the Liberty
Center development proposal. Are you all using the technology as
well? Okay, great. >> I'm not, but we are.
» Okay. [laughter] >> Uh, I'm Ed Murphy. Um, I'm here tonight
with Jim Worthington and a host of other project consultants to
uh discuss about the Liberty Development proposal.
Please continue. Sorry. >> Okay. Um, I'm here tonight with Jim
Worththington and uh multiple of the project consultants to discuss a project
that has probably been one of the most discussed publicly um in the history of
the burrow. It used to be known for many years as the steeple view project that
went on seemingly for almost a generation and resulted in various
levels of approval. Uh Jim Worthington purchased the
property almost 14 months ago in uh early 2025
and uh we had our first informal workshop session with um a handful of
burough administration staff and several council people last mid July when we
made everyone aware of Jim's acquisition and also some tenative plans he had for
how he would uh look to modify the previously approved plan. Uh we spent
the balance of the summer and early fall um doing um due diligence on the plan
various uh reached out to some u local stakeholders to get their sense of it.
And then we met for the first time in early November last year with your
planning commission and we presented at that time a a sketch plan. Uh we did
have the benefit of a review uh from Michelle Fountain's office when
we did have that first meeting. And much like the first staff meeting in mid July
where we got a fair amount of feedback of issues to be uh thinking about as we
embarked on any revision to the plan. We had that same kind of feedback from your
planning commission last November 3rd and we've since that meeting have
followed up again with um different um groups stakeholders if you will within
the burrow. Uh Jim's had a number of listening sessions which I'm sure you're
familiar with because some of you attended those and uh more recently we
made u a more formal submission of the revised sketch plan and a companion
uh overlay ordinance that we call the green rate greenway redevelopment
ordinance or the grow ordinance. that would be a vehicle that would allow the
plan that we're going to present to you tonight if everybody thinks it makes
sense uh to move forward. So, uh, this opportunity tonight is to allow Jim
briefly and then the project architects and then, um, the project planner to
talk about the design elements that we've incorporated into the plans since
some of you saw it last July and hopefully the uh, benefit of that we see
in considering this amendment as opposed to relying on the prior most recent
amended final approval for the steeple view project. So, uh, with that as
background, Jim wants to make only a very brief commentary and then we'll
turn it over to the project architects who will have a more visual presentation
of uh, the work product we've developed since last July.
My name is Jim Worthington and thanks [clears throat] for having us tonight. I
just want to give you a little brief history. Uh very brief. Um two years uh
prior to purchasing the uh project from Allan Smith, who I admire dearly. I
think he's done tremendous things for the burrow and the township. uh myself
and a friend of mine spent uh virtually dozens of meetings with Allen
trying to get familiar with the project and I was very excited about it in terms
of because he's he's a visionary and he does really good things. Um during that
two-year project, we also were talking to different stakeholders, residents
around the site, which was then Steeple View, uh business owners on State Street
and surrounding areas. And we found out that the what Allen's vision was did not
coincide with what the folks around there thought. And I came in with very
excited about, hey, I'm going to buy this plane. I'm going to just do it. But
that wasn't the feeling. and sense we got from the people there, they were
concerned about a number of things uh that that that I wasn't aware of. And
then after I purchased it in January of uh of that year, uh we dug further into
it with my experts and people that were working on my project to find out that
all the fears of the people that were um not thrilled with the the plan and were
looking for something different came true. So, for instance, the plan that
Allen had uh versus the plan we have had 1,700 more cars per week per week than
our plan that we developed, which is 85,000 cars more a year. That was a
problem. People were concerned about traffic. That's what we were repeatedly
told. People were concerned about off-site parking that was in Allen's
plan down at the stocking works saying, you know, this doesn't make sense
because people aren't going to go down there and park. We realized that was
true, too. So, we came up with a plan that basically park right on site.
People were concerned about the fact that there was going to be limited
public parking. We provided much more public parking in our new plan. Um there
was a a plaza space that was uh very much needed and wanted. It was something
that the burrow I think insisted upon. We saw that uh plaza space which was
nice but it was 5,000 square feet. We said hey there's room to do much better.
We made it 15,000 square feet. We tripled the size of it. Every place we
looked at where we could improve Allen's plan. We did. Um, and the biggest thing
was the business community was definitely afraid of more competition.
They didn't want another restaurant. They wanted no more coffee shops. They
said it's hard enough to to now business-wise to compete. And here we
are going to bring in more people, which is going to cause more traffic and
decimate the people there. What they wanted was people that lived in the
community. So, what I originally thought I was going to do, which would have been
really easy, we scrapped because it wasn't right for the community. And I've
done business in New Town now in two years, 50 years. Some of you have been
members of my club. And we try to do things that are exemplary. And we try to
do things that give back to the community. People may not like some of
the things I do outside of my business, but the fact of the matter, I've always
have thought that what I could do best for our community, whether it's raising
money for charities or uh supporting different businesses or whatever the
case may be. Um, so the plan we're going to present tonight, I think you'll get
the facts from our our experts here, is a far better plan than Allen. And that
doesn't mean that Allen didn't have a great vision. He did. But at the time he
came up with that many many years ago, New Town has burrow has changed quite
quite a bit. And I think this plan on its merits uh really really adds to the
community. Really I think it's it's a wonderful community. I you may or may
not have heard I've most recently um uh I will be buying the Burden Hand
Building uh on April 15th. I have two or three other uh sites right on State
Street that I own. I have a vested interest in making sure we do a plan
that really really contributes to the community. So, that's all I really
wanted to tell you. I'm I'm honored to be able to stand here and say I have an
opportunity, I think, to do something that's a really gamecher for the burrow
and I think the surrounding community. And I'm very proud and blessed to say I
will do everything I can to make that a huge success. And I think um we do have
information that we and I do want to tell you we did we did go around and uh
one of my employees, Linda Mitchell, who will be celebrating our 45th uh work
anniversary this May, uh basically went on foot, which is pretty good for
somebody 75 years old, and went door to door every every surrounding business,
every resident she could with unbiased asking, "How do you feel about this
project?" not asking them for their support, just playing it right down the
middle. And I think if we get a chance to show you the results of that, it was
pretty overwhelming that people uh people really want to see this happen.
So anyway, thank you very much for listening to me and I appreciate it.
So, what you're going to see next is um a visual
uh and a descriptive presentation from David Mow and Michael Lawson. Uh both uh
members of Minnow and Wasco, which is a regional architectural firm
headquartered in Lambertville. Uh Dave and Michael have been working with us
from the get-go since um Jim's acquisition of the property last year
and um I think uh hopefully you'll feel as we do that the changes that um they
will visually review with you and Jim's overview description of that are
I think provide real municipal benefits to um the burrow and to a greater area
outside the burrow when you see the changes that hopefully uh you'll think
are worthy of incorporating into any new revised plan. So with that as
background, I'll turn it over to David and Mike.
» Good evening. I'm David Mow um with Minnow and Wasco Architects and
Planners. And I have a big smile on my face tonight. I'm a New Town burrow
resident and this plan I think is going to be uh what New Town needs in this
location. We've had an eyesore in this location for years and years and we'd
like that to end and do something beyond just be a development project uh for a
developer to make money. This is something very special that uh the
community needs and will benefit from. Uh Do you advance? Go ahead.
So, uh, this is our development team, Jim and his partner Bob Weller, myself,
Michael Lawson, Lynn Yahaya, who's a landscape architect,
our civil engineer, Ron Monree, Ed who you know, Jeff Manard who works with
Jim, and John Kennedy who's a who's a planner.
Why don't you move on? I think Jim has covered some of these main points. So,
I'm going to reiterate a little bit of what Jim said, not much, but um we have
created a 14 to 15,000 square foot uh town square on the property. And this
is a place that can be activated by New Town Burrow to do various things whether
it's a Christmas tree lighting or bull market carts. Uh any kind of festival
that we want to have. It can have entertainment. Uh we have a a covered
pavilion where groups can perform and it's a space that New Town really
doesn't have and it does happen to be right in the center of town.
We've enhanced the greenway trail. It was always contemplated
uh in the plan uh that was approved prior to this, but we've made some very
special changes to it and it's going to be a great walkway for the community.
It's open to the public. It's not a private amenity all along New Town Creek
in this section of the property. the um
public parking spaces. We've got 55 u public parking spaces.
We have 20 parking spaces set aside for phase one residential. The building uh
the residents who live over the liquor store off of State Street are just
parking with everyone else in that beat up parking lot. So we've got reserved
now 20 specific spaces for those residents.
We've got 20 spaces for the existing retailers, the liquor store and our
favorite croissant store. So we've provided the parking that we
need not only for the commercial and for public, but we've also got the required
number of parking spaces for our residents.
Um, one of the things you'll see about our parking that's quite different from
the prior approved plan by Alan Smith is that our parking u, much of it for the
residential portion is underneath the buildings and out of sight. And this is
something that makes it a higher quality project all around. It's a elegant way
to live. You can park under your building and take an elevator up uh, and
avoid the inclement weather when you're bringing groceries in. And so it's a
very very nice way to live. We've uh the project now includes 125
rental uh apartments and we expect our renters here to be in two basic groups.
We and we see this all over in downtown redevelopment. The first group would be
young uh professional type people who are just starting out and running an
apartment uh employed in the area. And the second group which we see in
particularly important in the New Town project is an empty neester market. Um
we have many people who have lived in New Town and the surrounding communities
for a long time who may be at a point where they're selling their home and
want to keep a a residence in New Town. Maybe they're buying a home in Florida
or the Carolas, but they want to keep a residence here because this is where
their relationships are. This is where their families are. This is where they
worship. This is their home, and they want to stay here in a in a very, very
nice building. So, that's that's kind of who we seek coming to this project.
The other thing that Jim mentioned was that we have 85,000 fewer
annual car trips to this project than the prior approval.
And a lot of that is based on the fact that we have removed the retail
component that was in the prior approved plan. And as Jim mentioned, the retail
that was contemplated here was competitive with our good merchants on
State Street and other locations within town on Sycamore.
And uh there was really not the proper parking to support it. And it created
this uh influx of parking even in the evening which would have been in a
little bit of a competition with the residents and a nuisance for the
residents to have cars coming in throughout the evening for retail uses.
So we think that this is a benefit to reduce the amount of traffic that's
coming in and out of this site. Um the architecture that we're going to
be presenting tonight is a high quality architecture that really works well with
the phase one architecture. We did meet with Harb and we got comments from them
that they wanted to see an interpretation of
uh what was done in phase one and the idea there I think is that it's a
it's a site that did hold industrial uses back in the day. We actually
consulted with Jeff Marshall who helped us figure out what existed on this site
way back in the day. And as you may know, larger businesses tended to locate
in two places historically. One was along rail railroad tracks and the other
was along streams or waterways. And on this site in particular, there was a
very large millwork company that was located right there along the New Town
Creek. There was also a a huge complex of green houses in that location. So,
architecturally, you know, we can play off of that idea of older industrial
buildings that have been renovated into newer residences. And that's what we've
done. And I'll let Michael, my partner, u describe that in a little bit more
detail. Next slide. Uh this is just an area that I think
points out the uh supporters and solicitation of people to comment on
this on this project. This is where we handed out um uh you know leaflets and
gave information. Next,
so this slide is a portion of the approved Allen Smith slide. This is the
northern end. Center Avenue is on the right hand side of the sheet. And this
was the approved plan. And he had a great deal of retail on this end of the
site in buildings two and three. And the small plaza area that he had next to the
creek was located right there adjacent to Center Street.
But he has very very little parking there for that retail. Um and as you uh
the park the public parking which is sort of in the center of the site was
too far away for the state street merchants uh to be effective for them.
Next slide. This is more of the um southern end of
the site where he had uh small residential buildings perpendicular to
the creek sort of lined up. um no parking under the building, all surface
parking. And in fact, he didn't make the parking work on site. I think 50 spaces
to support this project where at the stocking works, which I think was a
difficult thing for the boards here to approve, even though they did, but I
don't think personally I don't think it worked. People really weren't going to
walk that far to either uh park for the residents or park for retail.
Also, this uh big circle in the center of the site ate up a lot of land and
really didn't do much u for the site at all. So, that's one thing that we we saw
as a as a big problem right from the get-go. Next,
so here is a a portion of or this is our site plan. Uh we have three residential
buildings. one, two, one on the left, two in the middle, three on the right.
And these buildings have 43 units in the first building, 49 in the second, and 33
in the third. And as you look on the right hand
portion of the plan, we've got a greatly enlarged town park and pavilion
building. and you'll see renderings of what this looks like, but we've taken
the entry that's uh sort of behind Starbucks and the hardware store and
we've made that a a special paving street as you come in that ties right
into the plaza itself. And on days when you'd be having
functions there, music or performance or whatever, we can close off that portion
of the street and have it be an even larger uh plaza that would include the
street area itself. So that that's something that I've seen done
successfully in in several towns uh in downtown areas.
um our parking and I'll I'll let Michael go through it but much of it is
underneath the building. We have 241 residential spaces for 125 units and we
have 133 of those as garage spaces. So there are more than one to one spaces uh
garage spaces for the residents. And I'm going to let Michael take over
and show you some beautiful architecture. I must say that our client
Jim has said, "I want to make this a legacy project." Um, and he said that in
relation to the quality of all the materials to be used in this project and
the design of the buildings. He wants it to be something that will look good on
all four sides. It's not going to have a beautiful front and vinyl siding on the
back. It's going to be a wonderful four-sided project. And um I'll let
Michael describe the architecture. Thank you.
» Thank you, Dave. >> Perfect.
» Thank you so much. As Dave alluded to, my name is Michael Loss. I'm a partner
uh with Dave at Mano and Wasco and we specialize in these kinds of
developments in downtown areas where we try to rehabilitate areas that are not
succeeding. Um, and I think Dave really illustrated how the vision now for
Liberty Center as well as ownership um, really looked and saw what different
components needed to be enhanced. Dave alluded to the fact that we have this
beautiful now retail or uh, events plaza located here with the pavilion. We also
have located the public parking closest to the Starbucks and closest to State
Street so that those people that are using that public parking can have an
easy and accessible uh walk back up to where all the businesses are located. As
we come down into the site, we've really taken a uh view that we have to minimize
the the size of the buildings through shaping them and creating view
corridors. And one of the things that we did here was you can see on each of
these corridors heading down towards uh the inner side of the site, that is
where we've located our main entry, our architectural feature. You can also see
that we've done that here in this location. We've in we've included even a
park uh next to this area for green space. And you can see this kind of
working through the whole site plan. There are different nodes that occur as
you walk through and you experience the site. And that's really what we wanted
to do. That's how it integrates into the burrow and the downtown here uh in New
Town.
Yes. So, as you look at at the at the plan that you have here, this is a
ground floor plan. The gray areas are that parking those parking uh spaces
that are on the ground floor. They are the garage parking spaces. They're these
light gray areas here and here. This building actually has them in a basement
level underneath it. So, there's even parking underneath this this uh building
here in building one. So each of these buildings has that level of parking. The
pink areas is where we have those nodes and that's where we have that lobby
space and amenity space. That's going to include a few different things and I
have uh some imagery of that as we get further along. But in there you'll have
an elegant lobby space. You'll have a club room, fitness areas, co-working
spaces, all the amenities that come and are expected now in these kinds of
communities throughout the Northeast. And then um as you see these plans as we
progress further, you'll see that the yellow components are the residential
units, how they stack in the building and how they step back in different
locations as we move up the the plan here.
some of the areas that we're looking to enhance. Um, and these are some theme
imagery of the public spaces that we're we're hoping to create, the public
plazas, the entertainment areas. Um, areas that you can have a Christmas tree
lighting or manora lighting or an event for your holidays. Um, as well as like
Dave mentioned, you could have uh areas for food trucks and festivals and those
kinds of things, but also for leisure. the the walkway along the creek is an
very important piece of this development, but also of the the entire
downtown New Town Burough. And that really allows us to connect both the
residential to that natural perspective that you see into the creek um but also
to the downtown and the walkability of downtown.
These are some of the images that I just alluded to for the interior amenities.
These are this is the level of amenity that is expected at these kinds of of
projects and and these types of new residences. So you can see the the the
private dining areas for the residents of the community, the club rooms, the
fitness areas, as well as the level of design that's brought into each of the
residential units. As Dave said, the the people that we expect to be living here
and renting here are people that have a high quality of living. They want to see
these kinds of amenities and they want to see wood floors. They want to see a
beautiful kitchen. Those are the things that make this community that much
special for uh New Town Burough. As we go up to the next floor plan, this
is actually a typical floor plan. And this this shows that on the upper floors
of the building, you have all residential units. This is where we have
a mix of one uh bedrooms, two bedrooms, and three-bedroom units that really
enhance and create different uh size of units for the different income levels,
but also for what people are looking for. We think that we have the correct
mix uh that's warranted for this uh downtown environment. And as Dave
alluded to, we do have the correct amount of parking to park these uh uh
these residences both in the surface parking as well as the garage parking
underneath the buildings. This is then the roof plan. And you can
see that on the roof plan, this is where we hide our mechanical units, but also
we have an amenity up here as well. And on buildings two and three in this
location and this location, we're providing for rooftop amenity decks.
This was really important for Jim and his and his development team that we
created an an area that you could go up to the top of the building and you could
look over the creek, look over the natural environment, as well as look
over downtown uh the downtown area. In these areas, you'll see that you have
fire pits, you have areas for lounging, you have areas to uh allow you to
sunbathe in in certain areas, um as well as barbecue grills and areas uh so that
you can actually cook um and bring those things back down to your
» Wi-Fi >> as well as work outside and Wi-Fi, which
is very important nowadays in in our technology communities.
So that leads us into the vision of what this is going to look like. And I bring
up this is um the an image looking from our our central street um at building 2
at the entry to building 2 where the park is um that we've created at the
center of the site. And as Dave had said, we met with Harb and we worked
with them um through a pallet of materials that includes an elegant gray
brick um as well as traditional brick detailing um with modern accents. And
you can see those modern accents at the center uh entry area where we have uh a
a larger glazing area on that on the building that denotes where we believe
the node is on the building. the important piece where people are drawn
to, but it also has a contextual element. Even on this building, as you
as you came in, it has a large glass entryway. On several other buildings
throughout the burrow, it has this vernacular. We wanted to use that as
well here to bring in some context in terms of how buildings have been
rehabilitated in the burrow. You can also see that on um several of the
different architectural elements, we've created a residential feel. And you can
see that in the gable pitched roofs that we're creating, the bay windows that we
have on the on the building, the balconies that we've incorporated into
the language of the ins and outs, as well as the [clears throat]
the divided lights in each of the windows on the lower portion of the
building. This breaks down the scale of the building and allows for a more
residential typology that we think merges well uh with the the aesthetic
that we were trying to create on site. [clears throat]
The next image just takes you slightly around is looking at the same building
at a different perspective here. Um you can see how we're pushing in the
building in different locations. That's where we have several of our balconies
as well as our um stepbacks in the building. On the top floor of the
building for a lot of the proportion of it, we do have a pretty considerable
step back. A step back is a push back of the building on the top floor. This
allows for the eye to be stopped at that one story below where we have that
cornis line and that glass railing as you walk past it. It's another way that
we're breaking down the scale of those buildings.
This is now a view of the same building on the walkway side. And here you can
see that on the one side we have the creek, we have the walkway, and then we
have our parking on the ground floor and three stories of residential above.
We've changed the materials as we get higher in the building to a panel
material rather than a masonry material. It allows for a softness as we go up the
building, but also allows for us to step back the building here above the
parking. That allows for larger private terraces for those first floor of
residential units.
This is an image looking at the entry of building one. This is that L-shaped
building that we looked at on the plan. You can see here we have a slightly
different um style. We have the two gable roofs on either side. We've really
minimized the height in this location, bringing those uh top gables down into
that top floor. Um, as well as creating that entry node that we talked about um
as well throughout the presentation. Here on this side of the building, we
have a much larger at uh right above the parking podium uh amenity area that can
be used for public or private events as well as barbecue grills, lounge areas
for the residents of the community. >> And you can see the entry of the parking
going down underneath the building using the grading of the site to our benefit.
That's another thing that I did want to bring up. As you can see, we're sitting
at the lowest point of the site in a lot of these areas. South State Street is
actually almost a story higher um at that level. So, the buildings, even
though they are four stories tall, do sit much lower in the site. As you as
you kind of know if you've ever been to the liquor store, which I'm sure you all
have, that liquor store actually sits a story lower for its entry. from South
State Street, you go down the hill and you enter in on the lower level. That
allows for these buildings to minimize the height and we think that it's still
very much appropriate uh to then add this height in this location. As Dave
said, historically this site has had larger buildings on it, more
manufacturing buildings, those kinds of things. This is now what makes sense for
downtown areas. Manufacturing doesn't make sense. residential walking wallets,
people who are going to activate your downtown. Really makes a lot of sense
here. This is uh as we now progress towards
the public plaza. This is building three. This is a a smaller building. You
can see the same kind of architectural details that we've added to the
building. You might say, "Okay, so it looks a little bit the same from
building to building." That was actually a comment from Harb. They wanted a a
harmonious and a similar contextual feeling on each of the different
buildings. Originally, we had proposed several different brick varieties, some
different materials. The guidance that we received back from them is that they
wanted it to be more streamlined. We heard that and we prepared a
presentation and designed the buildings appropriately in that manner.
This is now a view as we progress closer to that public plaza on the walkway
side. On this side, we actually are able to put our fitness center and some of
our amenities activating that walkway uh at that level here. So, we have large uh
open windows um areas that you can see the activity on the inside as you're
walking by on the walkway.
And you can see in the back right there that we have the First National Bank.
We've imported that into our models. And you can see that in relationship to the
Heights, it is very similar. Um, and that's right across the street from our
public plaza as well as, you know, this building fronts on that public plaza as
well. So now this is now turned around and and this is an image from that that
that bank and from Center Street. And you can see the the road that we've
created here that really uses the same materiality. We use ballards and and
different color treatments to to denote where the driving area is and where the
pedestrian realm is. But during festival times, during public events, you can
close that street down and it becomes an extension of that. That's how you get an
even larger area for those kinds of events. on a on a weekend, you could
have um a line of uh food trucks sitting there activating that public plaza,
which a lot of downtowns have. You can also see that we've added a pavilion
located at the end. We think that this is a great opportunity uh for music, for
sound to really enthral and activate not only Liberty Center, but the whole
downtown area with that kind of activity.
And then you can also see the walkway on the right. This actually creates that
conclusion in some ways or that center area that activates that walkway. It
allows for an area that somebody could walk to the public plaza and then walk
back. >> I think this is phase one.
» And then you can also see phase one located there um in the rendering which
is where the liquor store and uh and the bakery is. So you can see that does sit
higher on the site because it is one story higher along South State Street
and you can see the heights of that are relative to the heights that we have
proposed for for our new buildings in the rear of the site.
So that concludes our presentation for tonight. It gives you a great overview
of what we are proposing, the vision that we are proposing here. And we
really are very excited to bring this to an area of your downtown that needs a
little inspiration. And we believe that this is the correct inspiration for the
right time and the architecture that that follows. So we really welcome you
to downtown living in New Town Burough and we think that this vision is that.
Thank you so much.
» [applause]
» Um the next and uh final presenter would be uh our planner, John Kennedy. Uh John
is a longtime municipal planner. Uh he represents many municipalities in Bucks
and Montgomery counties and um he and I have collaborated on multiple projects
on the private side as well. And I thought this particular assignment was
tailor made for John because um he does a lot of work with other uh developing
or redeveloping burrows such as Hatboro. Um we're also working on another project
in in Doylestown. And uh the task that John had was to try to develop a
framework for which um a municipality could consider a project that uh David
and Mike just described uh and recognizing the inherent limitations of
the split zoning that exists today on the site. part of the site. It's, as we
all know, it's almost nine acres, but it's owned town center and VR2, village
village center, too. Um, and neither of those individually uh are zoning
districts that are easily accommodated by a project like this. So John's task
was to identify a overlay that we've called, as I indicated a few minutes
ago, uh the uh greenway uh redevelopment overlay as a possible
vehicle for to consider something like this. So I'd like John to talk about the
ordinance. We submitted that draft ordinance with the sketch that u we made
the formal submission of a couple weeks back. So like John to provide some
planning concepts why he considered it, what values and benefits we think it
serves. Uh so you can consider that as you consider the other elements of the
project.
Thank you. Uh my name is John Kennedy. I'm the principal of Kennedy Associates
Planners and Landes Consultants. Uh just to briefly give you a little bit
of my background, I have been a professional planner for 46 years. I
have had my own consulting firm for the last 36 years. Uh we work for a wide
variety of private developers, nonprofits, and also we have municipal
clients. Um currently I am the planning consultant for Lansdale Burough. Uh also
the planning consultant for Hatboro. In the past I've I also worked with uh
Amler Burough, with Richland Township, Abington Township. uh typically in those
cases on special projects when um in and in addition to that uh I
have also spent 26 years serving on two planning commissions, one in Lansdale
Burough and one in Lower Southford Township. Um 12 years in in Lansdale, 14
years in Lower Salford. So I have a pretty good understanding of both sides
of the table and how things work. uh Jim brought me in and Ed brought me
in to uh take a look at the plan and review the existing ordinance and some
of the existing planning documents uh of the bureau. So we started as we often do
by looking at the existing districts and then we go on to the comprehensive plan
and I am glad to see that you have recently updated your comprehensive plan
in uh 22. uh not all townships and burrows are
that uh prompt at renewing their comprehensive plan. So kudos for that.
Um when I started looking at this, I I in talking to the whole team, I realized
that uh there had been quite a bit of of input and thought put into this this
plan. and and Jim uh does care very much about uh the way New Town looks and the
downtown area. And so um we started looking at different ways that we might
be able to implement this proposed plan. And like most things, there's more than
one way to do that. Um, probably the the typical way that most people might
approach this would be to provoke uh, excuse me, propose uh, some kind of text
amendment on the underlying zoning. Unfortunately, in this case, we have two
zoning districts, the TC and the B2. And the downside to that would be it starts
to then affect other properties in the bureau that have that same zoning
district. So that may not be the best way to approach it. Uh another thing we
could do way we could uh implement the proposed plan would be to make an
application to the zoning hearing board and we would have a long list of
variances that we would need. Uh however, my own opinion, I'm not an
attorney, but I don't think that that would be successful in this case because
of the high legal bar that we need to uh overcome for variances and and obviously
the use does have the property does have a a use due to the fact that it has an
approved plan on it. So, I don't know that that would be the best path either.
So, we started to talk about an overlay uh district, which I know that you do
not have many overlays. I believe only one, just a flood plane overlay
district, which is actually very common. Uh many municipalities use overlays for
flood planes, deep slopes, and riparian corridors. Um but I actually utilize
overlays for many, many different types of projects. Uh we utilize them in
Lansdale Burrow. We utilize them uh in Hatboro quite a bit. Uh and in many of
the other projects that uh I work on uh we do use overlays. One of the
advantages of it in um in my opinion is that we're not changing the underlying
zoning map. It all stays the same. The regulations stay the same. All you're
really doing is you're applying uh you're you're giving the land owner
another development option on that piece of land. So, it sits on top of the
existing zoning and you could develop it either under the existing zoning or you
could develop it under the overlay. One thing you don't get to do is pick and
choose which regulations you want to do. We get people doing that occasionally in
Landdale where they'll they'll say I'll take this from the business district and
this from the downtown overlay district. Um but you cannot do that. Um, so
looking at the the work that uh Dave and Michael have produced and going and and
visiting the site and walking around the town, uh, I really think that this is
probably the the best way to be able to solve this this little bit of a puzzle
in being able to implement a project such as this uh, on a site like this
where you have two different uh, zoning districts. uh but we need to be able to
bring them together so that we can have one coherent project.
So while there are uh two different zoning districts, that said,
those two zoning districts are not really that far apart. They they may be
far apart in your minds. I I get that. But I've worked on sites where, you
know, half of it's R3 and the other half's industrial. So we don't have that
here. If you examine the the TC district and then you examine the um the gateway
district, the B2, many of the same uses are still allowed.
It's just it there's the allowance for residential uses and the allowance for
non-residential uses. They're just regulated in different ways, which was
one of the main reasons why I thought that an overlay is ideal for this
particular site. I became even more convinced after I
dove into the comprehensive plan because what
jumped out at me and rather surprised me is the fact that uh this project has the
ability to uh align with many many of the goal
statements in your comprehensive plan which I was a little bit surprised at
that one project could kind of check so many boxes in a comp plan.
Um, and many of those are uh laid out in the intent statement. I'm not going to
go through this line by line because I know you have a a large agenda, but I'm
just going to briefly go through it and then I will more than happy to answer
any questions you have. Uh, but in the intent district, I do want to just spend
a moment there. The intent statement, uh, we we have five um, eight different
intent statements. Many of these are are taken directly from your comprehensive
plan or they reference to the comprehensive plan. They also um many of
these are taken from another document which is a little bit older uh 2011,
the New Town Creek Wershed Conservation Plan prepared by the Heritage
Conservancy. And that was a really interesting plan
because it gets into um many other topics other than just the
creek itself and the watershed and the hydraology of it all. It actually does
get into um things like parking, land uses,
housing. uh I was actually quite surprised and once again many of these
goals or recommendations in that case uh in that study uh also do align with this
particular project and I think there's the uh ability to maybe check some of
those boxes off too. So um basically I will go through and at
least read these. Um the first one is to implement the recommendations of the new
town bureau comprehensive plan specifically core recommendations for
sustainability, mobility, resilience and balance.
Also to establish and preserve a greenway ribbon along the New Town
Creek, to redevelop underutilized
sites along the New Town Creek, to establish a greater variety of uses
to complement local burrow businesses. to provide a greater variety of housing
types within the burrow to provide additional community
gathering areas in the burrow to create pedestrian connections with
nearby recreational facilities which was one thing that actually was not
mentioned and that is the uh bridge connection to the park over in New
Township. Uh and then finally to provide access
from the burough's commercial core to burrow recreation facilities, both the
the greenway itself and then the park uh further south.
Um the way the overlay is structured is what we call a mapped overlay. There's
actually a couple of different types. Uh you can either define an area on your
zoning map just like you have for other district uh districts.
uh or they also sometimes overlays are done uh where it would apply on an
entire district say on the whole R3 district or something. In this case
we're talking about specific area that is mapped.
Um in order to qualify for this um there must be a minimum gross tract area of 8
acres. There must be a minimum of 1,000 feet of frontage along the new town
creek and the track must have 300 feet of frontage on State Street. So that's
what you use to really tighten it down and
really just apply it to this one area. If any of those
uh standards were tweaked, it may apply to other properties, but when I looked
around, I could not find any that it would apply to. the standards would have
to be radically reduced uh like going from a thousand feet of frontage on the
creek to 300 feet of frontage on the creek. And I don't I don't know that uh
certainly we are not interested in that and I'm not sure that the burrow is but
you could do that at your own uh leisure if you wanted to in the future.
Um in terms of uses uh they're laid out here. It's a a variety of residential
which are multif family uh dwellings, apartment style units and then a wide
variety of uh non-residential. The reason for that is that as some of the
spaces may come up, we want to make sure that there are a lot of different uses
that could go in those spaces. Uh we then get into the development
regulations uh on page two which provide once again
the tracked area. It regulates mix uh gets into the mixture of non-residential
and residential. Also uh there is an open space requirement.
Uh 25% of a GRRO tract uh must be uh remain in open space. In addition to the
open space regulations just [clears throat] the simple percentage,
there's also further refinement of the open space standards. For instance, 70%
of the minimum required open space must be designated as a public greenway along
the creek. We we want to make sure that you get the the the walkway along the
creek as opposed to any kind of bait and switch. That's why they're all
specifically written into this ordinance.
Uh in addition, 10% of the minimum required open space shall be improved
community open space. This is something that I'm very big on. Um, I know in
Bucks County it's very popular to say we're going to take 50% or 60% of the
land and preserve it as open space. And you got yourself a nice feel, but this
is a burrow. You have people who use the streets. It's active. You want to have
improved open space. Uh, it doesn't need to be huge because improved open space
is much more expensive than natural open space. But once again, we want it in the
ordinance which is why it's here. Uh and then we also have limitations on the
amount of impervious surface that can be within the open space.
Uh below that we have some standards for the greenway in terms of the uh width
standards accessibility. Uh and then at the bottom of page three
we get into dimensional regulations.
We uh dimensional uh standards are on page
four. Uh and then at the bottom are design standards. Uh and then we have
design standards for buildings, street access drives,
uh parking, off- streetet loading and trash, streetscape and streetscape
amenities. And then there are uh at the very end of
it there is the uh statement that the the site is also in the historic
district which I'm sure many of you are aware of and those regulations do have
to be followed. So in kind of a quick nutshell that's the ordinance that we
have proposed. I think that uh it's a way that you could
uh implement this development. Personally, from a planning standpoint,
I think it's a wonderful opportunity. When I go out there and look at the
site, I look at the creek and quite frankly, it needs some love. It really
does. Not just fixed up, but also people that will use it. People that will walk
down the the the walkway and will cross over the creek into the the park in New
Township. And I think it's something that also
would provide some uh additional um positive impact for the
local businesses. I was especially struck by the uh the one comment I think
it was in the comprehensive plan where they
you want open space in the downtown, but you want it to be accessible to the main
commercial areas. And I think that that's actually a great idea. It's sort
of unusual, but part of it is because you've got this unusual uh landscape.
The fact that you have this creek that is right smack up against your downtown.
And uh my own personal feeling is it is a real opportunity. Uh this is our first
presentation. Obviously, some of these things are going to get tweaked and
changed a little bit, but uh we welcome your input and welcome your questions.
And that that concludes our presentation.
» Uh John's right. Um that's the extent tonight of the formal uh presentation.
Obviously, we would solicit any comments uh that anyone would have about anything
you saw or heard this evening. recognizing it's a lot to digest in one
meeting but um it's a important first step for us and I'm sure u as well for
council as well as the other stakeholders um in terms of the process
that we at least the way I think about it um
our thought would be our next step would be to return to the planning commission
to continue the conversation we started in November
um and to continue to flesh out the information that we presented to you
this evening, which uh planning commission hasn't seen anything since
November. So, some of what we presented tonight might be somewhat new or
different to them. Um, one of the, uh, encouragements we did receive from your
planning commission in November was to reach out to the community, make sure
others uh, are consulted that have both in a direct and maybe a less direct
impact, which we have, I think, done a better job than we did pre-Nvember
uh, when, uh, some of the planning commission folks thought we had not done
enough uh, listening to other community segments. So I think we've done much
better since November to do that. Um and we will continue to do that with any
feedback you provide us and as we go through the process any other feedback
we receive. So um I know there are people here in the audience that may or
may not want to speak. One unrepresented group uh that's not here tonight that
I'm authorized to report to you is the phase one condominium unit owners with
whom we've had a lot of engagement uh over multiple issues not just uh what
would phase two look like but also addressing lingering issues they had as
residents there today which Jim in large measure has addressed But none of the
residents that reside there today could attend tonight. But I am authorized to
tell you that there is unanimous support for what you've seen and heard this
evening by that small group. Now, I'm sure they will be able to come at
subsequent meetings to comment as well, but wanted you to they wanted me to
share that with you tonight as you think about what you've seen and heard. So,
uh, David and and Michael and John, uh, can answer any other questions and Jim
answer any other questions you may have tonight. Uh, and hopefully you would
offer folks in the audience if they choose to to speak good or positively or
otherwise about what they've seen and heard tonight. Thanks.
Thank you. Um, first of all, uh, to Jim Worthington and the whole team, thank
you. It was a very wellorganized presentation and we appreciate the
thoughtfulness in terms of how you put it together and the thoughtfulness in
which uh that you um have have shown in terms of developing the plan. Um I have
a question I think maybe best addressed to the architects with respect to um
maybe if you could summarize what the differences are between this plan and
the plan that you had presented previously to the planning commission.
Was that's mostly architectural or were there site plan changes as well?
» You know, it's funny. I just asked Ed if I could just kind of simplify this and
you just asked the question I was going to answer, but he'll give you more
detail. If you really want to simplify this plan, [clears throat]
the Staple View planet, just so we're clear, had 88 apartments, but they also
had a restaurant pad and other retail. Our our plan is 125 apartments. So, it's
really 37 apartments different, but not all the mess that creates all the
traffic. >> Yeah.
» All the parking problems. >> Can I just interrupt you for a sec?
Sure. >> Because uh I def I definitely appreciate
that difference. Um and I I'm familiar with that plan. I was more focusing on
the previous concept plan that you guys had presented to the planning commission
that you had presented to the planning commission.
» Our concept that we presented to the commission.
» Okay. Well, can I just finish my thought and then he'll answer that. So I'm sorry
I misre but I I think for the audience I because you see hear all this stuff you
think wow what's the difference between the two? It was what that I had said
earlier that it it's a it's really just getting rid of all the retail and the
restaurant pads and everything that creates all the traffic and it just you
know it Allan had a lot of apartments 88. We have 125. We don't have that many
more than him but we eliminate all the problems with the off-site parking the
1,700 cars per week, 85,000 cars per year. We uh eliminate the uh we we have
um more private uh public parking for all the people right on center ABS so
they can walk right into town. And you know, of course, we've expanded the uh
the the uh plaza space three times bigger. We've enhanced the the walkway
trails. We have a lot of public uh things like the street lights and things
like that that are surrounding that area that we're going to be fixing. But I
will tell you I believe pretty strongly there isn't a whole lot of change from
what we originally came with to what we get because one of the the f things I
directed the architect I said we're not coming in with a plan where we're saying
hey let's ask for the moon and let's negotiate down. I'm not into that. I
wanted to come in with a plan that we can make it work for everybody but is
not over the top that that doesn't need to be, you know, negotiated from this
number down. I I'm that's not my style. We came in with the minimum we could do
to make this plan work, not just for us, but more so for the for the town. I
think you're going to see we haven't we haven't changed much of anything. I
mean, people told me come in for with 200 apartments. I I'm not doing that.
We're just not playing those games. We're going to come in with what we
think and it isn't a heck of a lot more than what Allan had ironically. Yet,
it's and God bless him. I love him. It's a far greater plan for this community.
So, go ahead. >> Thank you. So, as Jim alluded to, that's
my favorite word tonight. Um, we uh did not change too much. It's more
advancement of the architecture. um advancement of some of the details that
you see in the renderings as well as some of the balconies and those kinds of
architectural elements on the architecture. Those are the advancements
that we've made in terms of the locations of the buildings um where we
have the main components of the plan that has all remained consistent with
what we presented to the planning commission in November. There has been
some advancements in the overall landscaping design. So certain things
have been advanced further as we work through the design process but
everything in terms of the components the locations of those components have
remained consistent.
» Thanks that that that was my question. Now one really sort of simple really
basic question in the uh the illustrations the brick look brown and
you had mentioned gray. So, um, is it just a matter of how it comes out on the
screen or what is it that you're using? >> So, we're proposing a beige brick. Um,
so I I thought that I had said beige. If I had if I'm mistaken, I'm sorry, but um
it's it's going to be a beige brick, which I think is very elegant um for for
the for the building. It's brownish. It has some hues of different things. And
during the planning commission process, we can bring in some samples to show
kind of the selection that we're choosing. We think it works well with a
lot of the downtown uh buildings along South State Street um that have the the
variety of brick color in terms of some yellows, some browns, some grays. We
think that this matches rather well. When we were at Harb, we had proposed
several red or uh burgundy uh colored bricks and we advised that they would
rather see uh the beige palette as something that we do consistent on all
of the buildings. >> Thank you. Any
other questions or comments from council?
» I do. I have one. Um, so the uh your your sketch plan indicates that you are
developing a TND. Are you still anticipating that you're following our
TND ordinance?
Thi this would take some elements from the TND ordinance uh but primarily we
are drawing everything from the proposed GRO overlay district.
» Right. >> So that that leads me to my second
question. What are the major differences between the GRRO and the TND ordinance
knowing that the majority of your project is actually in the V2 district
that there's very little building most of the building is on that side which
does permit the TND >> there there's uh differences in terms of
the types of units and the mixture uh if I recall I'd actually have to have my
full notes because we did look at that carefully um there's there's not
necessar necessarily big differences between these two districts. Um,
so I'm I'm >> so my I took a quick look at your o your
overlay >> and it appears to me that it is very
similar to our TND with the exception of the sizes of the buildings that they are
taller, they are longer and they have more units than our TND ordinance and
our regular ordinance would permit. and that the the mixeduse element which was
very important when the TND ordinance was put together seems to be lost in
this development. >> Well, I I think one of the things is
that this is uh the the the one of the differences between the
proposed ordinance and uh the previous plan and and the existing zoning is it's
encouraging more commercial than might be able to be leased or sold. Uh that's
that's just a trend that we're seeing everywhere uh across this state and
actually across the country. Um so it's pulling back on some of the commercial
uh what is more important um and we actually see this a lot in um well
really in both Lansdale and Hapo uh where the business owners they just want
more households. It's as simple as that. They want more households to support the
local businesses. you can add uh just a a little bit of commercial. Even then,
it's going to depend on its actual location because right now we're seeing
a lot of empty commercial spaces of all different varieties.
» Thanks.
» I do want to comment on the hype briefly. Um,
one of the things that uh I think it might have been Dave mentioned this
which is very important and a lot of people cavalerely throw this around and
that is the idea of why don't you put all the parking spaces underneath the
building. That is incredibly expensive to do. And so in order to accomplish
that the developer see needs to make it
worthwhile. I mean, just to be completely honest about it, this plan
would look completely different. Even if it had less units, but you put
all the parking on the surface, would not be nearly as attractive.
And so, you do have to accommodate that within
the architecture. And I think that's a very important point to make.
Well, I'm certainly sympathetic to that and and I appreciate that a lot of the
parking is being hidden because we are trying to get away from seas of asphalt.
Yeah. >> Um and I understand that and I know that
you have to balance the obviously the economics of building something.
» Um and as been told to us for years as this property has been out there to be
developed that you're trying to figure out how you can afford to do it by doing
this or that or something else. And I I certainly understand that. I guess the
end product though is what the town will have and so that that's important. So I
don't want to go into a lengthy discussion about it now. I was just
curious to get your feedback. >> Just want to make sure that that the
point was made because it is very very important.
» Sure. >> Any additional comments or questions
from council?
I just want to say it's it's very encouraging and um I look forward to
working with this through and there's been debates back and forth on a lot of
issues and I don't know I think we can come to an agreement and really make
this thing work. >> Thanks Gail. So, um, Greg and I talked
about, you know, you brought up process. So, we're going to take, um, the rest of
the next few weeks of March for council to review not only the proposed text
amendments you said sent, but also our engineers review of those. Um, and then
we plan on, uh, discussing in our April cycle at our work session. Um, moving
forward to sending this to planning commission for additional re review or,
uh, going back to you um, with, you know, our thoughts on on the proposal
and what needs to change, etc., etc., before we send anything forward. So, we
plan on having that on our next cycle in April.
» Okay.
» You have any other questions or comments for us?
» Unless you're going to not solicit public comment. I think there are people
came tonight wanting to speak. So, I don't know if that's appropriate now or
do you want to wait? But >> I mean, we typically don't um unless
we're making a motion, but I I'm okay with that if anyone would like to speak.
Good evening. I'll keep this uh brief and first of all, thank you for your
service. I know that um these late nights are are not something for
everyone, so appreciate that. I'm Dave Marcola. Uh I own three uh businesses
here in the burrow uh in the real estate industry, commercial, residential, and
uh estate sales. and I also serve as the president of the New Town Business
Association for the past six years. Um, I just wanted to give a few comments.
You know, over the years I've been involved in New Town, lived or worked in
the community for the past 26 years. Um, I uh had the opportunity to run First
Night New Town for anybody that remembers that back in the day on New
Year's Eve. Uh, currently our parade, our holiday parade and uh our car show
and welcome day. And so I can say that there's a lot of excitement from the
folks who put those events on to have space like a plaza, to have space that
doesn't require costly inconveniences of closing roads. And so we're excited
about that. I also wanted to share that we gave uh Jim and his team the
opportunity to share this plan with our members. We're over 300 business members
strong at our January member meeting and uh it was very wellreceived. I know
Linda, as you heard, spent a lot of time on the streets, uh, talking to
businesses as well, hundreds of businesses. And so, I've reviewed all of
that. I've reviewed the original plans, and I reviewed the plan that you saw
here tonight. And I do think that, you know, over the 26ome years that I've
been here, we've all seen change, right? We've all seen a lot of progress. And,
uh, we've also seen a lot of things done really well. On the residential front, I
can't tell you how many times a week I tell people, unfortunately, no, there's
just nowhere here to live. On the commercial front, I can't tell you how
many times I tell people, you probably can't afford that commercial rent in New
Town. All of that means we're doing something really well. We're a desirable
community that people want to be in. They want to be a part of. I live right
now, um, sad to admit, in Pennington, New Jersey, as I'm rehabbing a a 200-y
old farmhouse and look forward to coming back to New Town. But every day my car
is in New Town. Everything I do is in New Town. Work to gym to eat to you name
it. So, um, and that's because it's the perfect balance. And I think that's
something Julia you mentioned about striking the balance. I think the time
that's been spent reviewing and the the efforts of the experts. Um, I think you
guys know your job obviously, but I think I feel like myself as well that I
would agree that I think we're in a place where a lot of those things that
come with progress that are unfortunately challenges um have been
met headon with this current plan. Um, I don't think we'll ever have perfect.
There is no such thing, but I like what I see and I wanted to just share my
support from my community here in New Town. Thank you.
» Thank you very much. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to
speak, please?
Good evening. I'm Lisa Flmer. I'm the executive director of Lower Bucks County
Chamber of Commerce and we recently moved into the stocking works um this
past year and um we're very excited to be a part of New Town Burrow uh not just
for our membership but also for the businesses that we represent and the
burrow itself is well known for so many various cultural activities in addition
to the niche that you have of feeling like a hometown town and what Jim has
done and I've I've worked with Jim when I served on the Middletown Township
Board of Supervisors so in the early 2000s and he ran our Middletown Country
Club. He doesn't do anything halfway. He also ensures that he takes into
consideration all of the stakeholders and their needs and their requirements.
Um so not just the municipalities but also the businesses. You could see that
from every single aspect of this plan completely ditching the former plan to
what he has created now. Taking into account the hindrances um that would
have you know befell the community but also ensuring that what he is building
what he is presenting to this community blends with this community. It is
aesthetically pleasing. It takes care of your walkway along the creek to provide
not only access to nature for the residents there, but for those that come
and have business in the community who decide that they want to dine in the
community in addition to the entertainment that could reside at the
pavilion. I think one of the things that I enjoy
most in my capacity is the number of residents that will now be a part of
your community that will then frequent the commercial sector of your community.
That only bodess well for the businesses along State Street and throughout the
burrow, but it also bodess well for their future and their success, which
then also adds to the value of this community. this beautiful community that
you continue to create, foster, and ensure that for generations to come,
they will know exactly the history and legacy of New Town Burough, not only
maintain it, but sustain it for its legacy. So, thank you for your time this
evening. I really hope that you consider this plan in its entirety and bring this
forth for not only the burough residents but also the commercial sector and for
the future of the burough. Thank you. Thank you very much. Would anyone else
like to speak? Please come up to the podium.
» Hello, my name is Excuse [clears throat] me. My name is John Monahan. I live at
202 South State Street, so I would be right across from this building. And I I
just have to tell the board members how how much better I think this plan is
than the the plan that was in effect when I purchased.
I think the the buildings architecturally the buff brick m u
doesn't imitate but echoes the building directly across state street on the
corner of pen and also the first uh national bank of new town building which
you would see from these buildings and I think the mixeduse idea sounded good 15
or 20 years ago but really it would not work in this location. And also, if I
were a business, if I had a business on on State or or Sycamore Street, I would
just like, do I need the competition? The answer to me would be no. But do I
need customers? The answer would be yes. And one reason I moved from Pipersville
to this building was I wanted to be in a place where I could walk to to the
restaurants and the other businesses that are right here. And I think you
will find that uh as one of the uh people stated, you're going to find a
lot of people who are downsizing who live in New Town or nearby and they go,
"Yes, I want to I want this, but I don't want to buy." So the rental, I think,
also makes a better idea. You may get younger people who are going to be
renting as well. And there really isn't that much rental in New Town Burrow. I
go by, I see the Laroo building and a few others in the small small rentals
down the street down State Street at 440 State Street, but you don't see all that
much more uh rental space. And also, I think we need to move ahead on this. And
one more thing is that the speaker who was talking about the wild flowers,
let's also keep in mind that the bank of the new town creek is going to be
improved. It's it's one of the few places you'll be able to access. In
fact, I think it's the only place you'll be able to access uh and walk along New
Town Creek and it'll be cleaned up. The rusty shopping carts will be out and
it'll be much nicer. So, I'm also authorized to speak for the people in
202 who were unable to attend tonight because they're away. And uh without
exception, everybody is in favor of this and would like to move forward as
expeditiously as possible. Thank you. >> Thank you very much.
Anyone else, please?
Hi, my name is uh Jim Wis, 2011 Penn Street. Um, some of the other people
already mentioned some of the things that I wanted to talk about, but I've
been involved with a lot of things in the community, been around town as much
as anybody doing various things and working in the community way back when.
We all love Allen and I was on a committee with Allen probably in year
2000 where we talked about improving the creek and the you know doing a creek
walk and here we are 25 years later we're still talking about doing
improvements along the creek and an asset that we have there that we're not
using. In addition to that, I see five, six empty buildings around town. I agree
with everybody else that including more retail down there is probably not the
best opportunity when we already have vacant
things and and like the guy said before, you need clients if you want to have
retail and and people using those things. So, I'm also in support of it.
There's some things that I don't know if it's going to be phased or not. maybe
this isn't the time to bring it up, but an important part to me also is that
public space that's down along the creek. And I just would like to ensure
that that gets built as part of if there is any phasing and I don't know if
there's any phasing or not that that is one of the first phases that's done
because I also think that's an big draw to to everybody and importance to
everybody. So those couple things I'm in support traffic is always going to be an
issue. You're never going to make everybody happy like somebody else said,
but we need a spark in this town to get some things rolling in a better
direction and uh I think this will help. >> Thanks.
» Thank you very much. Anyone else?
Okay, thank you gentlemen very much. >> Thank you.
» Okay, so we're going to move on to certificates of appropriateness. Chris,
» thank you. If it's okay with uh our solicitor and
council, I'd like to group the first three together. They're all going to be
proposed for um approval. >> Is that all right?
» Y. So I would uh move to follow the
recommendations of the historical architectural review board and direct
the president of council to sign the following certificates of
appropriateness thereby approving the historical appropriateness of the
applications with final approval by the code enforcement officer. The first
application is COA 2026-9. It's 159 North State Street and the
applicant is Mike Hutchinson. The applicant seeks a certificate of
appropriateness for the demolition of an existing shed addition on the back of
the house and an early 20th century shed at the rear of the property.
[snorts] Harb recommended approving the application for demolition, noting that
neither the shed addition nor the rear shed has architectural nor historic
significance.
Our second application is COA 2026-6 and 20267.
This is for 105 and 107 North Chancellor Street. Our applicants are Christopher
Grimes and Charles and Barbara Lewis. The applicant seeks a certificate of
appropriateness for repairs to the shared front porch of this twin house.
Again, that's both halves of the twin house. Harb recommended approving both
applications for 105 and 107 North Chancellor Street with the following
changes. The main three posts will be repaired
using Dutchman or epoxy. The railing will be salvaged if possible or replaced
in exact kind in terms of proportion and detailing. The ballusters will be
salvaged. Necessary new ballasters will be turned to match the existing.
And third, we have COA 2026-8. This is 110 East Center Avenue. And this
applicant is Peggy and Doug Levvin. The applicant seeks to seeks a certificate
of appropriateness for alterations to the rear porch. Harb recommended
approving the application as presented. >> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second? >> Second.
» Thank you. Any comments or questions from council on these COAs?
Okay. I know I asked this earlier, but are any of the applicants present?
Any public comment on these COAs? All those in favor?
» I >> I
» I. >> Any nays? Motion passes.
» Okay. Now, uh I move to follow the recommendation of the historic
architecture review board and deny the following certific certificate of
appropriateness. This is COA 2026-00005
for 17 North State Street. The applicants are Caroline and Janine El
Classen Trust. The applicants seek a certificate of
appropriateness for installation of a fence. Harb recommended denying the
application, emphasizing that if the PVC fence had become had come before HARB
before its construction, it would have been denied.
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. Any comments or questions
from council on this motion? >> Is the applicant present?
Any public comment? All those in favor? I
» I any >> any nays? Motion passes.
» Okay. Seeing as we are missing our dear Chief Sabbath, um we'll move on to the
mayor's report who we are also missing. Um so I would just uh say that we have
two events on here that we will make motions for tonight to um approve. Um so
I would entertain a motion for Arbor Day.
I'll make a motion to approve Arbor Day sponsored by the recreation board on
Friday, April 17, 2026 from 9:00 am to 11:30 a.m. at Brian S. Greg Park. Rain
date is April 24th, 2026. >> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second? >> Second.
» Thank you. Any comments or questions from councel?
Any public comment? All those in favor?
» I. >> Any nays? Motion passes. Uh, I'd
entertain a motion for the Memorial Day parade.
» I'll make a motion to approve the Memorial Day parade sponsored by the
American Legion Morell Smith Post 440 on Monday, May 25th, 2026, 9:00 a.m. to
11:30 a.m. along a designated parade route. No rain date.
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. Any comments or questions
from councel? Any public comment?
All those in favor? >> I
» I >> I
» Any nays? Motion passes. Now, there's an additional uh item under uh the mayor's
report. Uh but I don't know what Tara was planning on saying about it. It's
just about uh that Saturday, August 8th will be New Town celebrates America's
250th. Um we'll add this to the next agenda so she can give us more detail
about that.
» Okay, Greg. Moving on to the solicitor's report.
» Great. Uh the first thing I'm going to take up under the solicitor's report are
actually moving from the president's report up to the solicitor's report
which is an update on the fire services agreement. As council may be aware um
the township did approve on their end a uh I guess our offer uh for the amount
to enter back into a fire services agreement with the township at their
previous meeting. We received a draft agreement after the work session uh last
week. Um and so that's in review. We're asking for a little bit more
information. There was some documentation missing from the
transmission that we got. And so that's under review and we'll be bringing that
to council for review and discussion during the April and and and hopeful
approval uh during the April session. So that's just an update on that. Um then
next item on the solicitor's report is the continued appeal hearing for 239
Court Street, which is a Harve appeal. Are the deacons present? You want to
come up? We'll we'll continue where we left off. As a reminder for the board,
we looked at this um at a previous meeting. Um this is regarding a
retaining wall at 239 Court Street um that uh was erected prior to receiving
any approvals. Um at the last meeting, council elected to remand uh the
application to HARB uh for a recommendation on uh what they would
recommend to be placed there uh had uh it gone through the normal review
process to inform council's decision in this appeal. Um so HARB did take it up
at their meeting on the 25th of February. Uh, and the minutes reflect
the um following statement. And I'll just read that in as we as we um
did at the last one. Uh Harb recommends a well the it was stated that the if the
application had come before the wall as built, it would have been denied. Harb
recommends a simpler, more appropriate stone wall. The stone shouldn't be laid
in an ashlar pattern uh but rather more closely match the irregular and roughly
dressed stone of the house's foundation. The cap should be less formal than the
existing rectangular cut blue stone top. A more appropriate stone cap should be
of the same stone as the wall. Um and so the ultimate was that they would they
denied it still but made those recommendations for council's benefit in
this hearing. So, as we reconvene now, um, as the deacons have come forward,
um, I don't know if if the deans would have anything, uh, that they would like
to offer council at this time based on that recommendation made by HARB as to
where you are in the process or we can open it back up to uh, council's
discussion, but I would give the first opportunity to begin.
» No, I mean, I I don't, as I said before, I don't um, you know, first of all, we
obviously didn't try to do anything sneaky. There's a thousand cars drive by
our our house every day on on Court Street. So, we didn't get a permit. We
screwed it up. Um, you know, as I mentioned before, and I don't you know,
you guys are here long enough, but we've we stole the idea off the house on
Washington Street. It's a brick house. Um, their stone is very similar to ours.
I don't pretend to know the names of the stones and all that stuff, but but their
stone is very, very similar to ours. As I said to you guys before, that's where
I got the idea or my wife and I got the idea. The other thing is there's it was
mentioned that the stone doesn't match the stone of the foundation of the
house, but the home across um from the funeral home has a similar wall. It's
not it's different. So, I'm not I'm not acting like it's exactly the same, but
it certainly doesn't match the foundation of theirs. So again, we're
not, you know, we're not trying to do anything to be sneaky. If we owe money
for the permit, that's fine. You know, if whatever we're not we're not trying
to be difficult, but I feel like we got a tennis match going on. I'm going back
and forth, you know. Um I think it looks nice. We've gotten a lot of compliments,
you know. Um I mean, I don't know what else to say. I don't, as I said, I I
don't think we've uh I don't think the top piece looks any different than
multiple homes in the area. So, I don't really understand that. But again, we're
not we're not trying to be difficult. We're easy to get along with, but I
mean, at some point, I mean, I I think we tried to do the right thing. The
house looks nicer, I think. Again, I'm not totally objective, I guess, but you
know, it just I feel like we're being a little nitpicky to be truthful with you,
but and I'm not trying to be difficult. We'll do whatever we got to do. I'm not
it just as I say I think there's other homes in the area that look exactly the
same who are very very similar that apparently didn't get get their hands
slapped. Make a long story short. >> Thank you Mr. Deacon. council, we'll
open it back up to I mean, we we were already in discussion and certainly you
can ask any additional questions of the deans related to this in light of the
recommendation or or I know it's a recommendation the evaluation made by
HARB.
» Oh, well I I went to look at your wall again this weekend. Um
I there are there are a number of things
going on here. I would agree with you that you know you did it's similar to
other walls in town and I see where you got the idea actually went and looked at
those walls and you are correct their walls did not match their foundations at
all either. Um and har I think Harvest being inconsistent or maybe they're
being consistent in their inconsistencies because they have
approved walls. They have told other property owners don't make your wall
look like your foundation. I've heard multiple times when people have come to
put walls in their backyard and said, "Oh, we picked this stone to look just
like our house." And the response from Harb was, "No, make it look different."
And and then it is true. There are houses on Washington Avenue that have
stone walls that are recent that were approved that don't reflect the
foundation at all. They're granite and their houses are are um the brown
sandstone Bucks County stone. Um, your wall
has a much has a modern look to it and I'm wondering if you would be willing to
consider replacing just the blue stone top with a rougher stone that matches
the stone of the rest of the wall. I think that might soften the look and
might um, obviously it's not going to match your
foundation and I don't I don't I wouldn't say that it needs to. I would
say that it might take away from the more modern aspect of that wall compared
to the age of your house. >> Yeah. I mean, we'll certainly take a
look at it. As I said, we're not >> No, I get along with I'm more than happy
to have >> Do you want I'm wondering if is there
any kind of photo we could get of what you're talking about because that
definitely seems >> Well, rather that what you have is a is
a modern blue stone which is very popular right now. The top the top
piece. >> Okay. and and Harb actually did say this
that they were suggesting that a more appropriate stone cap would be of the
same stone as the wall. So you have uh stone in the the you know your your
vertical surface is is [snorts] like it was a a concrete block wall that
had a laminate put on right. So the the kind of stone that the front of the wall
is, if you could get you can go to a quarry and get some stone pieces to put
on the top of the wall instead of the blue stone cap that might soften it
better. And then >> we're happy to we're happy to take a
look at it and most likely do that. I'm said I'm not recommendation.
» Yeah. I No, I I I I understand your situation. I I
» Yeah, I get it. Yeah. [snorts] >> I just don't And we're happy to do it.
» Yeah. said, "We're going to do whatever you whatever."
» Right. So, if you were just >> don't understand how there's multiple
homes that have the same top. And again, I don't I don't even care what it cost
us. >> We'll do it. Get it done. I just don't
understand as you're saying earlier, which I appreciate you taking the time
to go look at the homes. Um, you know, but
» there's so many others that are the same is that's all I'm confused about. But
we're happy to do that. No problem at all.
» I do have a question though. So, we need to get a we probably should go before
ARB again. No, they would >> um I don't know. In the past, people
have asked harb to like help them pick the stone, but not necessarily go back
through the whole process again. >> It would be up for council. There's
there would since they've appealed from the har. We're in a harb appeal here and
council ultimately has the the say on what gets installed or not. So, I think
it would be appropriate if council wants to determine
» what it wants to do. It doesn't have to. I mean you can certain you can certainly
send them back to harb like you just did but there is no requirement whatsoever
that they need to go back to harve where they are in this process.
» We might be able to get some advice from harb from the consultant to say what
would be the best stone to do this or what should it look like or how should
it be but not go through the whole har coa process. I don't we don't want to go
through another month of this. [laughter]
Um, hello. Um, may I make a recommendation?
» Yeah, go ahead, Josh. >> Right.
» Um, so, uh, in the past we've had folks bring in materials that they were in
question to our work session and let us take a look at those. Could that be a
possible solution to go ahead and bring in the material uh for the the cap of
the wall as Julia suggested suggested and then council can make a decision
rather than because Harve's recommendation was that it wouldn't be
approved and then they sent it back to be um uh they would they said that they
would want it to look like the foundation and we're kind of in
disagreement over that it sounds like and I appreciate Julia you bringing that
to all of our attention. about the history of that that really adds a lot
of context. So I would recommend they select a material that looks that would
that could be appropriate to match what you were talking about Julia and then
bring that to a work session where we can evaluate it and approve it.
» That that's absolutely an option. >> Yeah.
» Yeah. >> Yes.
» So first of all, sorry for keeping you in purgatory over this.
» No, we're all good. This was my biggest problem. the the reason you're in
purgatory is because we're trying to be thoughtful and and not not jump to
conclusions uh because of the situation. Um and nobody's sent you a uh violation
notice or anything like that. We'll get through it. Okay.
» No, it's all good. I'm not >> um that's the main thing I wanted to say
with respect to uh Julia's suggestion. Um, I just want to mention that, um,
having like rough stone on top is may or may not be an easy thing to do to cap a,
uh, to cap a block wall with. Uh, and to me, the more important piece is that
these the stone itself in color and texture is able to match um match the uh
the wall stone. um and not so much that it's that's it's uh fully rough or
that's there's a whole bunch of different pieces, but um other than
that, I'm open to I'm open to suggestion. I'm open to a practical
solution. >> Thank you. Is there is there a home?
Again, I'm not expecting somebody to give us an address off the top of your
head, but if there's if there's a home we can go look at for what you're
requesting, >> you know, I'm happy to do that. Well,
[laughter] I I I just do want to make the point because you've mentioned it a
few times when when Harborviews these kinds of things, they're not comparing
it to any other house. Every house is >> bas is judged by itself. It's not So
something that could be appropriate for a house on Washington Avenue that was
built 100 years after yours might not be appropriate for yours. That's how Harb
reviews things. So, I just wanted to point that out. But that doesn't mean
there's not another house in town that has the kind of stone uh that Julia is
referencing. So, >> we're not super creative. We like to
have >> Well, who did this wall? Did you work
with the mason? >> Our landscaper that we've used for 25
years. >> So, he laid the stone and everything.
» He did everything. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Um you might talk to him if he's
got some ideas. You might bring this back to them and him and say, "Well,
what would you suggest that's is not as >> um modern."
» Okay. and that would blend better and he might be able to say, "Oh, yeah, I did
this for so and so." and be able to send you that way. If that doesn't work, I'm
sure we can find some resources for you. >> Okay.
» Or Harb could actually >> and and and likely like if he has a
couple suggestions, a couple samples that council could review, um that
probably be better. >> Who would we reach out to? Is it Anna
» when we have um >> you can reach out to Craig?
» Craig. >> Okay.
» Yeah. Our our April work session is >> the 8th. It's a week later.
» Wednesday, April 8th is when we'd have the opportunity to review them.
» Okay. Um, no, that's perfect. And and I do I appreciate you um
» the suggestions we do >> trying to work with us. I'm not um
» and we promise we will always get for every other thing we do.
» I appreciate you working. We'll figure >> if that's if that's the direction of
council. We don't have to do a any formal motion. I would just say that
we'll stand we'll we'll recess this hearing until the April 8th meeting and
that the direction of the deans is to uh source some samples for a cap to the
wall and if you can share them and if you are able to you can also coordinate
with Craig to share them in advance but it will be discussed and we'll resume
this conversation at the April 8th work session with a with an agenda item for
resolution to this as well >> potentially. That's perfect. Is it is it
fair to say that that just to keep this in mind that um and picking up on
Julia's comments, number one, that um uh we don't like the blue stone in the
modern look, right? So, we're looking for something that's a perhaps more uh
of a match to the other stone that's on the wall. Is that what you're saying?
» And secondly, ideally a little bit more rough hune if
possible. Again, matching matching the wall. That's uh
» all on the top piece. >> That's what we're suggesting. you you
take a look at. >> That's perfect.
» Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Have a good night.
» Thank you. >> You too.
» Uh the next item on the
» No, because there's no motion. It was a hearing.
The next item on the uh under the solicitor's report is um the
consideration of a handicap parking space uh with conditions at 446
Washington Avenue. Um this was provided as a resolution for council uh numbered
3-10-2026.
Um this would establish a reserved parking space um with conditions in
front of 446 Washington Avenue. Um and this is established pursuant to um
section 535-32E of of the code of burrow of new town. Um
the resolution re uh I won't read it. Uh the all the whereas clauses but the the
conditions that the resolution establishes is that the reserved parking
space is established in front of 446 Washington Avenue. that the reserved
parking spaces shall be demarcated within the cartway of Washington Avenue
in front of 446 Washington in an appropriate location determined by the
burrow. The burough shall issue a permit to Mallerie Newman for her exclusive use
of the reserved parking space without fee required. The reserve parking space
shall include a sign with such signage restricting use of the parking space
solely and exclusively to the permit holder. The Burrow of New Town shall
delineate the reserve parking space with visible lit linage following the size
and line spacing of section 486-21E of the code of B burrow of New Town and
that the reserved parking space and permit shall be available to the permit
holder for so long as the permit holder resides at 446 Washington Avenue or no
longer holds a handicap placard or license plate.
Thank you. So to begin discussion, I would entertain a motion from council.
» So you want to do the motion >> for the for the parking space? Yes. And
then we will discuss. Yeah. >> Like to make a motion to approve a
reserved handicap parking space with conditions for 446 Washington Avenue.
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. Okay. Okay, now we can open
it up to comments or questions from council.
» I have one I actually have two questions. Um I'm in favor of this
motion, but I just I want to clarify some things. Um Michelle, this is a
state road. Um are there any special requirements that um is are we able to
provide this parking space without any um permitting from PENDOT?
» That's it. That's a good question. You may need to
um get a permit from Pendot at least for the signage. That's something that we
could look into for you. >> Okay. So, having the spot is not the
problem, it's the sign. It may be both. >> Okay. Okay. Um my second question is um
knowing the um
I don't know if the word I want to use the the scarcity of parking at that end
of of the block and given the number of houses that don't have off- streetet
parking that are in the neighborhood of this particular address. I'm wondering
if if the Newmans would be willing, although I don't want to put this into a
motion. I'm just asking since I see that um [snorts] that Matt is at the podium.
Um if if Mallalerie knows she's going to be away for an extended period of time,
like a week or a vacation or something, would there be would you be willing to
um make that spot available to others?
» I'm not quite sure if I'm being directly addressed because I really being invited
up here. I just kind of showed up. Um, yes. I mean, if if if we know that we're
going to be gone for a month for or, you know, a week for a vacation, absolutely
anybody can use that spot. This is just solely so that Mal has the ability to
park in front of her spot when it's she's having a bad day and, you know,
she needs to be close when there's groceries and I'm not home. So yeah, if
I mean we would absolutely work with the neighbors if if that's something you
know there's generally oa there have been occasions where you
know random people will park there but it's generally just our our local
neighbors and we're happy to work with them.
» Okay. Thanks. >> And that would also be an enforcement
issue. So I guess the Newman's could just alert
» Sabbath >> put a bag over the sign
» just alert chief Sabbath that this to not enforce the the permit you know.
Okay. >> During that time,
» so should we um make this uh subject to uh pendot approval? Is that what we're
saying? >> If required. If required.
» Excuse me. >> To the extent required. Yeah.
» Hi. >> Go ahead, Josh.
» I have a question. Um so in regards to the signage, one of our conversations
that we've had as council, will there be any kind of painting of lines or
anything to mark the location? And if so, and if PINDOT approves that, how do
you um then I I I hear the question about working with neighbors when
they're not home, but that seems like a whole another issue of how do you say,
well, those lines don't matter right now. Just throwing that out there. Any
comments on that from U Michelle or Greg? I think Josh I I think as I'm u
mentioned I think it would the lines not mattering would be an enforcement issue
uh for the for the police department. Um they're they're the ones who are going
to be going around and saying there's a there's a car without a permit parked in
a permit spot or or inappropriately parked in half the spot. So if there's a
if there's a time that the Newmans would not be utilizing the spot and they can
advise the the police department of such, they could not enforce it at that
time. Um there there's not there's not a another party that would be enforcing
that parking regulation other than the police department. And the and the
resolution does does state that linage will be painted on the on the roadway to
to allow an appropriate amount of room for a car to park there so that it
wouldn't be uh impossible for Miss Newman to
actually utilize the spot based on other cars being parked on the block.
» Does that answer your question? >> I think I think so. Yes.
So, um, we want to amend the motion to be contingent upon meeting the
requirements of PENDOT should there be any.
» So, >> I think I think we we I think you would
have to understand that we don't really have a choice in that in that matter
that PENDOT would have to ultimately approve.
» Yeah, I I fully understand that we can't skirt the overarching laws that we live
under. >> [laughter]
» So, I guess you can just say as amended. >> Uh, as amended.
» Second. >> Second.
» Okay. Any additional comments or questions from council on this?
Any public comment? All those in favor?
» I >> I.
» Any nays? Motion passes.
Um and the last item on the solicitor's report is regarding a pillar agreement
um with the Newman's for an EV charging post in the right of way in front of 446
Washington Avenue. Um there was some documentation that was supplied to
council on the location uh and the uh schematics of the uh um corresponding uh
electrical work uh to the extent that it was available now um with the
understanding as I think Mr. Dr. Newman understands that anything that would be
installed would have to be uh under a permit issued by the burrow, inspected
and compliant with the the burrow's electrical code and the NEC. Um so that
that has been presented. We do not have a a draft of any pillar agreement, but I
think we would we would ask that if council is inclined to approve this
tonight. It's more so related to whether the pillar can be related there and we
would then work on uh and with Mr. Newman and his council on getting a
pillar agreement together that would satisfy any requirements that would be
uh dictated by council. >> So we're looking for a motion to open
discussion.
So, this is just to open the discussion, >> correct? Just like we do every other.
[laughter] >> Everyone's different. I'd like to make a
motion to approve a pillar agreement with Matthew Newman for an EV charging
post in the right of way in the front of 446 Washington Avenue.
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. Um I'll open it up to
comments and questions from council. >> Question number one to Michelle. This is
a state road. Do we have to get a home a highway opening permit or other kinds of
permits from PENDOT to even consider this
» because it's in the rightway is >> in the in the rightway of a state road.
» You may. [laughter]
» Yes. Yes, you may. >> Um my
» Would that be the responsibility of of the burrow as it's in the right of way
or the responsibility of the property owner?
» Property owner. So my second comment is that there has
been a tremendous amount of new information that's come within the last
24 hours. The um proposed design of the post, the the actual charger being
selected, the way the wiring is done, comments, we just at 3:00 this afternoon
got a response from um Barry Iset regarding um the electrical code and
what he would need to be looking for. And it's very complicated. there's a lot
of stuff. Um so, um I would say we're not ready to consider a pillar agreement
at this time. Um if it is going to be referencing a particular design or uh or
whatever. I'm so I'm I'm trying to decide whether
the ability to consider a pillar agreement, which is
saying, "Yeah, we're in favor of a pillar agreement." and all of the the um
who's responsible for what and who's uh and all of the second page of that o
that other draft that was that you had previously given us Greg whether um but
eliminating any reference to any particular design or anything because
that would have to be taken care of separately that would be something that
I might consider but if it's going to have any kind of direct indication of
what we are approving we don't have nearly enough time to review the
information we've received to make sure that we know what's being proposed
before we actually say okay. >> I I think the the primary purpose of the
pillar agreement is to approve the location of the the fixture that would
that would be erected in the right of way. um any any [snorts]
electrical standards, the the charger, however that would uh comply with the
burrow's existing code would be subject to the permit that would have to be
pulled. Um, so whether it's the the cable running under underground, the uh
charger that's installed, the um how it's wired, uh would all be subject
to the review of that permit, subject, you know, under our existing uh
electrical code. Um I think that there are are some things that council could
consider as part of this that were in that uh original agreement um like uh it
being locked or not available for public use. The
And I know that there was some information that this one can't be
physically locked but not available for public use. That could be a condition of
the existence of this pillar in the right of way um that could be separated
off from the uh technical specifications.
Well, to a certain extent I I disagree because the um the pillar as it's
currently being depicted in the latest picture that we got is basically a post
with a charger hanging on it and if I'm interpreting it correctly, a 25 foot
charging cable wrapped around and hanging off a hook on
the side of it. >> [snorts]
» So, if that's what we're looking at right now, then um I'm not in a in a
position to support that. We were previously told this was something that
was going to hide something. That's what went to harm. There's too many things
that are out there and keep changing like hourly. So, um, I would suggest
that we not we that that we can't have an agreement that in any way, shape, or
form is approving what's actually going to get put there. But then the second
half of that is when we've had pillar agreements come before council before,
it's to say, I want to put this ballard or this pillar in the rightway in front
of my house. It looks like this. And council says, okay, it looks like that.
That's what we're going to allow. Therefore, we will write this agreement.
So, you see where I'm stuck. I do >> in the middle of this.
» I do. And I think Mr. Newman may be able to answer some of those questions, if
not all of them. But I I I'm I'm not capable of answering them. I looked at
the same uh materials that that were forwarded to council.
» So, I I have too many questions. So, um that that's where I am on this one.
I I just I guess from a solicitor's perspective in in the eventual
consideration of a pillar agreement, if that's council's choice for this, then
uh I guess I would ask for council's
direction on when we can work on answering those questions so that uh
we we can move move this forward if council so desires. Um whether that's
tonight with Mr. Newman or or in some other other form. Uh that's I think that
direction is necessary so that we're not in uh we're not back here in a meeting
and still have unanswered questions. That that's my concern
» for sure. So based on all of this documentation that's gone back and forth
and and the uh opinions weighed one way or another on all different things, um
it would seem to me that a more detailed um and I would say quote unquote final
um design is presented to us. The one we just got was not even 24 hours old and
it's completely different in terms of components and how things are arranged
and and and so on. So we don't have that. Um just
could I I have a question. >> Yeah.
» Um so would could and and this also is a question for Greg. Could we not um uh
approve the pillar agreement contingent upon it meeting the electrical code and
standards that of which I'm not as aware of but our our permitting office and and
code inspectors are. Um, could we do something like that which would give
them the ability to move forward in good faith and then also to for the Newmans
to work probably a little bit more closely with the permitting office and
um and their recommendations to make sure that this is moving in the right
direction. >> Josh, I I it's certainly feasible to uh
approve a pillar agreement subject to the that type of condition. Um, I will I
will say I agree with with Julia that council needs to um as if you're
approving the pillar agreement then council has to be comfortable with the
the fixture that's going to be erected. Uh I don't I I I'm agree that it can be
contingent whether the the inards and the the electricity of it can be
conditional based on the approval of a permit by the and working with the code
office. Um, but the actual fixture and I would venture to say the the charger
that's mounted there as well is part of what you're con you're considering when
you're approving the pillar agreement. So I I council does have to feel
comfortable with that information. Um, I think that there's been over the course
of this I think there's been three different things that council has seen.
We started with a a post I think with a charger on it. There was a secondary
scheme uh from uh that you saw recently that that it appeared to be hidden. The
most recent one, as Julia mentioned, shows a a mounted charging box. Again, I
think albeit smaller in size than any one that than the previous version of a
mounted charging box, but yes, council has to be comfortable with the post uh
general the general location of the post and and any uh impertinances on that
post. uh but it could absolutely be contingent on the technical electrical
aspects of it being approved by the code office and those with that technical
expertise. >> Um I have a question for you Matt. Um
the the latest plan that we just got yesterday that is different than the
original one. Um, was the original one an actual like
portable plug-in cord that you could have un unplugged and put in your car
when not charging? >> That uh that was never the intent. Uh
I'll be quite honest. Um I was uh a little bit uh expeditious with that
first version. I was just trying to put something together uh per uh in order to
provide some kind of visual impact so that council could understand what we're
looking for the location of it in reg uh respon or regards to the the rightway
and where the parking spot would be. Um I had not gone through the detailed
electrical engineering necessary uh and mechanical engineering necessary in
order to to do that. Um that is what led me to version two which is what was
presented to harb where everything was kind of hidden. Um I was running under
an assumption that that could be a hardwired system. Uh when I again got
into the details there is no provision to hardwire that system. Uh and that
would have required a very large pluggable um outlet that would have been
able to be removed. I I suppose, but I was trying to hide it and make it more
visually appealing for the neighborhood. Um, so when I came to the conclusion
that that was not a NEC uh acceptable installation, I had to move back to an
external charger. But all of the electrics are inside of the pillar in
order to um again reduce the visual impact. Uh there is
the the the the risk in my mind associated with doing uh a removable
charger is one we're talking about somebody who does have mobility issues
sometimes. Uh these cables are fairly heavy. Uh they're difficult to move and
the the in the the main issue from an electrical safety standpoint. Yes, we
would have a large outlet down near the bottom that it could be plugged in.
again, more visually impactful. Those systems are not intended to be plugged
in and removed repeatedly. Uh you'll get wear over time. It's it's just not um
it's not an ideal use case. >> Okay. Thank you.
» May I >> please?
» Yeah. So um uh with respect to so first of all um
in order to accommodate your wife right we have gone a step further than what
the ordinance already allows which is that we can we can establish a um a
handicap parking spot um as a reasonable >> issues though
» talking about that I I know I know but to me one is related to the other. Um,
so I just pointing out that in addition to what would be allowed under
ordinance, we're entering into an agreement that gives you exclusive use
of that with respect. Now, secondly, with respect to the pillar, again, we
have an ordinance that provides for that and I'm perfectly happy with proceeding
um to enter into a pillar agreement um in accordance with whatever the
ordinance allows. The issue to me is the EV charger. We
have no ordinance for an EV charger. We've begun to discuss it. I've
expressed my uh strong concerns with a number of issues with respect to EV
chargers on posts along our streets. We live um in a in a town that's a uh it's
an intimate town with houses close together um with um not everybody has a
driveway. It's not possible. But that doesn't mean we should be putting uh uh
charging posts in the ride of way across the burrow. And I don't see how this
specific situation is any different from the situation with respect to any other
resident in the community. And um so I am 100% against
um any pillar ordinance that would include the EV charger. I think that's a
mistake as a precedent. I think it's a mistake as a policy. Thank you.
» Thank you. Any other comments or questions from council?
» Would it be helpful? I'm sorry. Were you a sec?
» I I have full faith in zoning and electrical.
» Is your mic on? >> I have full faith in the zoning and the
electrical and I I think that we could do this pillar knowing that
they're they're going to do their job and it's it's going to work and it's
going to be good. concern I have is comes back to the cable and the
connector that goes from here to the car and maybe I don't completely understand
it and need to look at this better. Um, but to have cables just hanging out
there just seems to be a way we
we need just to work on it and make sure that we can get a design that doesn't
have that long cable there all the time because if everybody on Washington
Avenue has these pillars, which are great, which are fine, I have no
problems with them, but the cables attached to them.
May may I speak to that? >> Yes.
» Um, so as as far as an untethered EV charger, uh, there is a little blurb at
the at the very back on the decision-making process on that.
Ultimately, you cannot get a ULlisted EV charger in the United States that is
untethered. So, that is ultimately not a possibility. The only
possibility to accomplish that would be to use a portable charger.
» Right. Um, have you thought about um the
possibility of mounting your charger on a post in your
yard and then sending a conduit underneath the sidewalk that comes up to
this post in the right of way and I know this particular charger that you have
currently you're currently looking at because we actually have one and that
can you then take you you can open it up And as you know, you can hardwire it.
You can also detach the charging cord that's current the the charging cable
where it's attached to that unit. Take that and feed it back from the right
ofway under the sidewalk and back up to the charger.
So it's a 25 foot long cable. If it's if you're charging right at your
post, you probably need about five feet on the street side. That right? So, if
what's coming up is your charger cable and when it exits maybe exits your post
from the top of your post, you have about five feet left that you can use
then to get to your car and then when it's not in use that you might be able
to feed that bit of cable back into your hollow post and then flip the cap back
down on the top. Have you thought about something like that?
» Um, I have not. I would entertain that, but that would take a significant amount
of research and engineering to determine if the heat loads for the flex flexible
cables are not intended to be in conduit. So, the EV cable that goes from
the charger to the plug is per the NAC, you're not allowed to put that into
conduit. So, I don't I don't know if there's a method there. Mhm.
» Um, >> but I haven't thought about it much
further than getting to that point in the NEC and saying that's that's a nogo.
» That's interesting. So then the other item I wanted to bring up is that when I
was doing research for the EV ordinance that I'm have presented to council and
that is currently being worked on that um looked at a number of communities
that provide charging curbside charging and they basically have a pillar that
comes up with a receptacle in it and then people are issued an um a charging
cord that they then plug in when they're charging and unplug when they're not
charging. And so I know there are some cities that have these. I also know that
there's at least one company that will do this, like if you have a private
business and you want to provide charging at the street that they will
wire it up for you and that's what you have. And then people who sign up to
this like charging club or whatever are issued these
cords that you these charging cords that you can connect to the pillar and to
your char and to your car. And then there is no um cable hanging out there
that has to be wound around. >> You could point me to a company. Um that
would appreciate it. I my research I have not found any UL listed pieces of
equipment that meet that. >> Okay.
» Description. >> Well, be happy to share information that
that I've found if it will be helpful for your design.
And then I'm wondering if for council's activity if what I should be
doing and I'm not I don't want to do it yet but would be to table the for the
discussion on this motion to enable us to get more um I'm not making the motion
to table just saying if this is something that will be helpful is to
table this so that enable every all parties to get more information and to
be able to address this more concretely at a future meeting. [snorts]
» I have one more question though for Matt.
The way you are charging now, um, is that just a level one charger?
» It is. >> It is. Um, I would assume you'd have a
lot more flexibility with a level one charger. Have you thought about just
having a pillar that could use that? I would imagine you have a lot more
options. I know it takes forever. I have a level one charger still. Um, but is
that at all an option where we wouldn't have some of these issues with a 240?
» Ultimately, I'm not going to speak to
the goal here was to futureproof. >> I'm sorry. It was to what?
» To future proof. >> Okay. I I don't want to be coming back
to council in in 10 years when EV car or combustion cars are banned or whatever
the situation may be. Obviously, the landscape would be different then. But
um I think we can all see electric cars being a benefit to society both to from
an environmental impact but also just from you know the the the absolute chaos
and flux in the world and how that affects gas prices and things of that
nature. Um, so the goal here was to to be able to put a level two charger in if
it comes to it that you know I I I don't really want to
speak further than that, but that's that's where the intent was.
» Any other comments or questions from council?
» May May I make just one more? >> Yeah, I'm I'm going to ask that was my
next question. Does the applicant have anything else to say?
Um there were a couple of things. Um
absolutely I will well I guess the one question I
have for Michelle would be is it our respons I know it's our responsibility
to apply um in the event that we need to uh get an application. Is that our
responsibility to do that research as well?
» I I I can give you a name of somebody at PennDOT.
» Okay. that you could contact to see if you actually need a permit or they can
give you some sort of approval to do that.
» Okay. Thank you. Um
I I kind of have lost my thought here. I've um obviously been trying to figure
out a way to charge my car for a long time. Um I know it's not a great
situation right now, but it does not look like there's going to be a
resolution anytime soon. Um, outside of this discussion, and maybe
I'll speak one more thing. Um,
I I've done I've done a spent a lot of time that I don't really have trying to
figure this out. I think that I've created a a fairly aesthetic
um um design that is safe. It's defensible.
It's, you know, the the the coupling of that to ah this is the the thing that I
wanted to mention. The coupling of that to the dedicated parking spot is
intended in this situation to uh mimic the driveway that we were denied by
zoning hearing board. If uh if I quite frankly had done a little bit more
research and understood the level of complexity and the legalities associated
with zoning hearing board, I probably would have been a little bit more
prepared for that situation. Uh we might not be in this situation right now. We
might I might be parking there. The agreement that we had put together
was intended to alleviate the need for that zoning variance. And in order to do
that, we needed a dedicated spot as well as the ability to plug an electric car
in in the future that we all know that is coming. So that's kind of the drive
here. In my mind, if it's one or the other, it's not it's not uh an equitable
trade. Um, and that's kind of where I'll I'll end
that discussion. Um, moving forward, I don't believe that we're going to have
resolution anytime soon. As I mentioned, is there some guidance that I can do an
an ADA compliant cord cover for the level one charger? Something that we can
quite frankly get this monstrosity out of my the front of my yard. I I'm
looking for guidance. I'm not trying to be malicious here. I just I want the
right answer. Is it possible for for Matt to work with
Barry Isit, the gentleman who sent us all of the very technical specs? I mean,
is that a thing that's done? >> I mean, I think that he would have to
work with Anna as our representative. She is the front-facing person when when
he would go apply for something and Greg, tell me if I'm wrong, and she
would then relay. But that's just >> it. It would be coordinated through Anna
and and Craig. uh on a permit level. I I think the problem here in the the issue
Matt's referencing is without council approval, nothing can really be
installed within the right of way. So any type of permanent fixture can't go
forward uh in any way, shape, or form, whether it's it's burying a cable or or
a cord or whatever to to provide it. And from a a liability standpoint, uh having
a some type of
uh obstruction or impediment across the sidewalk uh is is not something that I
can recommend uh to council at this juncture, which is why we were this
which is as Matt stated is the basis of of this conversation. So I I
I'm not sure if there is, you know, there are there are certainly I know
you're referencing an ADA compliant, you know, uh, wire cover for certain
applications, whether in a in an auditorium or something for for someone
to to transverse. I'm not sure if that would ever be acceptable in a a public
right-of-way situation and and absent maybe Michelle and I reviewing that
because I can tell by that by Michelle's gesture there that that I that we don't
know off the top of our head whether that exists, we c we can look into it.
Um, I'm not I I will be honest, Matt. I'm not confident in any way that there
is something because the the whole point of a rightway is that it is unobstructed
in in all ways. Um, but council's blessing, we can certainly explore it in
the in the interim here. >> So, I have a question. If uh if this
doesn't get tabled and the motion is denied, what are the next steps for the
Newman's? Is it just done?
» [laughter] >> I
» no >> I mean
» is it done is um >> always come back again. I mean it's not
it's not the end of the >> I guess my question is they they they
will have a course of action to be able to try to do this again should it get
denied. This is all discretionary in council's
th this particular motion to the pillar agreement is all discretionary for
council. So it could if it gets denied it can certainly be added to a future
agenda again. >> Um
that's answering your question. >> How long cable the permanent cable from
the pedestal to your car that'll be there all the time. How long is that?
» It's 25 ft. >> I'm sorry. What was that?
» It's 25 ft. >> 25. So, you are going to have a 25 ft
cable. >> I haven't reached out to the
uh manufacturer to find out if there's a sanctioned way to shorten it, but that
is a possibility. Um, as Julia mentioned, I think it can be
disassembled according to the instructions, but whether or not they
would sanction that and it would still be ULlisted, I don't know.
So, my suggestion again is to table this to allow everyone to get more
information so we can reconvene and discuss this with um having some of our
questions answered and Matt doing more research, us doing more research, be
able to talk to our um our consultants, understand this better, and then be able
to look at this again, which might be a little bit easier than voting this
motion down and then having to bring it back again and starting this all over.
So, if you'd like me to make that motion, I'm happy to do it.
» May I comment? So, um I to me it really makes no difference whether we table. I
don't have an objection to tableabling. Um if we were to deny as as Sister said,
it would be we could essentially deny without prejudice. So, um it could be
reintroduced um whenever. So, from that perspective, it it really makes little
difference to me. I mean, my only concern right now is as as
um Mr. Newman said, it's a it's it's a you use the word monstrosity, but
anyway, it's an uncomfortable situation on the street, and the sooner we get
this resolved one way or the other, the better. that you're you're I think um
hoping, anticipating, whatever, that this gets resolved in a way that allows
you to put a post in. Um and so you're trying to keep the car charged in the
meantime. Um from from my perspective, and as I said, I'm not for um allowing
the charging post at this time until such time as we have an ordinance that
allows it. Um, I think it's important that uh we we get some resolution here
so that um if if it's yes, it's yes. And if it's no, you're you're going to have
to deal with the the fact that you have no charger for your car and fix your
hardship that you've created in some other way. But all that being said,
um that was just my editorial comment. It doesn't really change that we can
either table or deny
I mean, in effect, is there really any difference between tableabling or
» or denying without prejudice? Is is >> what would make it easier for Matt to
come back, >> right?
» There there's there is no difference.
» I think >> so.
I would I would prefer to table it if that is the feeling in the room from
fellow counselors that this needs further discussion.
» Okay. I'm going to make a motion to table this pending um the to offer
council the ability to um do further research as previously stated.
» I have a motion to table. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> All those in favor? I
» I I tabled.
I'm sorry. We don't take public comment when we table motions. Sorry.
[laughter] >> Doesn't happen. Sorry.
» There's a public comment period. >> Yeah, there's public comment at the end
that you can speak at.
» So, it's been tabled so we can try to come to a solution
and and introduce it at the April cycle. So, what am I to do with my monstrosity?
» Take it down. >> I would
» Nobody's >> I would tell
» we can what? >> We can certainly talk after the meeting.
» Nobody from Burrow has asked me to take it down, but I did receive a solic uh a
court summon about it. So, I just not sure if everybody's aware here.
» Well, hang hang on. We're we're not approving its existence in any way,
shape, or form. >> I know that, but nobody's asked me to
take it down. You haven't been issued a violation notice yet?
» Yes, he has. He's been citation. He has a court date.
» He was issued a citation. I I can't speak before the citation.
» It went straight It didn't get he didn't get a violation for this. It went
straight to citation. >> It was a violation for the previous post
which has been removed. >> The and
the code officer interpreted that as a continuation of the same violation.
Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Uh, moving on. Manager's
report.
» So, there I have one item of business that um we discussed at the last meeting
regarding um the action to solicit bids for landscaping
services. Um we're looking to get more um performance and for more economical
services which I'm believe we can uh accomplish and we'll do that through
this motion um this evening to solicit bids for the landscaping services.
» I would entertain a motion from council. Um, I'll make a motion to authorize
solicitation of bids for landscaping services.
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Any comments or questions from council
on this? And >> I'll just mention for council's benefit
that we did review the bid package and it's it's ready to go upon your
authorization. >> Thank you. Any public comment on this
motion? >> All those in favor?
» I >> I.
» Any nays? Motion passes. I keep forgetting there's a lag there.
» Yeah. >> Okay. Well, we've moved um the only item
under my report went earlier with Greg's report. So, I will uh move on to the
approval of minutes and entertain motions.
» I'd like to make a motion to approve the February 4th, 2026 work session minutes.
» Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. Any comments or questions
from council on these notes? These minutes?
» All those in favor? I Any? Motion passes.
» I'd like to make a motion to approve the February 26, 2026 council meeting
minutes. >> Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a
second? >> Second.
» Any comments or questions from council on these minutes?
» All those in favor? >> I.
» Any naysay? Motion passes. Okay. Moving on to budget and finance.
I'll entertain a motion for the consolidated expenditure report. I'd
like to make a motion to accept subject to audit the consolidated expenditure
report for the month of February totaling $314,826.17.
Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. Any comments or questions
from council on this? Any public comment?
All those in favor? >> Any nay?
» Any nays? Motion passes. Okay. Gina personnel Uh, no additional activity. We
are still looking for two members for the uh, human relations commission.
» Okay, great. Thank you. Any old business from council?
Any announcements? Public to be heard.
Please come up.
Joe Lovey, 151 North State Street. You guys know me. Uh, it's in reference to
the uh, bear with me. 239 Court Street Wall. I wanted you to there's something
interesting and I think the historical guys are wrong on this. Uh, my house is
233 years old. Every every chimney in the town has blue
stone on the top of the chimney. The reason why they put blue stone on the
top of the chimney, not the regular stone, is because all stones absorb
water. Blue stone have tighter pores. Okay? So what it is is that the reason
why first of all if you look at other places if you use a brownstone it's got
to be almost a foot thick because when the water hits it it absorbs in it it's
going to crack and break. The only wall in our town that we had something like
that was on State Street right next to the Fitch building and if you recall it
had triangles on the top. Do you remember? Okay. That got removed. Okay.
That was historical as ever. The reason why it got removed was is because the
water sat in there, busted it apart and so forth. And they put the blue stone.
So I have to be honest with you, when you put stone on the facade, you can use
many different types of stone, okay? But when you put it on the top, you want the
stone with the most types of pores. That's why, and I use mine as the
example, I put up a new piece on mine years ago. They only put it a half inch
thick. The reason was they couldn't lift it that high. Mine's an inch and a half.
Okay. Reason is is that it's tougher to break through. And all of a sudden, it
it weighs 200 and some odd pounds. They couldn't get it up that high. They were
pulling mules. So, at the end of the day, there is the history, but there is
what is today. And if our founding fathers knew this, they would also use
materials. They wouldn't use stone. We've got better materials.
So, what I'd like you to do is the historical view board is a review board.
It's there. It's a recommendation. They say no. You guys could say yes. I really
want you to think about this is that they violated something. They're willing
to pay the fees and so forth. But I have to be honest with you, if you make them
put it's their investment. If you make them put a different stone on the top,
every good mason out there will tell you that blue stone is the best material to
put on the top. It should also have a ridge on the bottom so when the water
when the water comes down, it hits a drain ridge that the drip doesn't come
down the wall and pop the mortar joints. Whether they did that or not, I don't
know. I I I've just learned all these things. But I have to be honest with you
guys. We have people making the town look
better. Okay, it's a stone, believe it or not. That is, would it look cooler
with the natural stone? Oh, without a doubt. But I'll tell you what, it's got
to be really, really thick. It's going to weigh a ton. It won't even look app
propo because the wall is so big. Okay. I only came up here to help them and to
provide you a guidance. It's not modern. My house has a and and
and and Julia Julia stone remember your you she had a stone a flag stone on the
top of her chimney and when the hurricane came by it blew it off
» the tornado >> the tornado came by it blew it off
that's why it's got to be a certain uh weight and so forth but at the end of
the day I just want you to think about that
that the historical review board they made their decision it's done okay at
the end of the day I have to be honest with you that is the best stone And you
could ask other stone people. You can go to Route One stone quarry and so forth.
That is the best stone for a top of a wall. Two, when the ice and so forth
comes that it will not crack and so forth. I I'm just trying to help. And
this other gentleman. >> Hey Joe.
» Yeah. >> That's So first of all, um, you have it
right in terms of process, right? It's it's been to Harb. It's now to us. We
can kick it back to Harb if we want, but >> you're just going to kick it back and
forth. Yeah. We're not going to do that. >> You have that. You have that right. You
got that right. And I appreciate your comment and um about the about the stone
quality. >> It was just to help you. Okay. So, at
the end of the day, Okay. The other thing is is I was just going to try to
just help this gentleman. >> You got two minutes.
» Okay, that's cool. But [laughter] but at the end of the day, I I sorry I don't
know your name, but I actually thought we were lynching somebody when I went
down the street. >> The only thing I could say is this. If
you're going to keep it up, take all the flowers and so forth off of it because
you're just attracting attention. Okay? But my thing is is that I I I really
believe that that Chris Chris hit the nail on the head. It's a
difficult decision. You don't have an you don't have an ordinance.
You don't have an ordinance. So truthfully, unfortunately, these guys
don't have an ordinance for EV. And I have to be honest with you,
I don't know how you buy a car that all of a sudden you have to charge. Nothing
against you. Don't take it personal. But all of a sudden it's like, where do I
charge it? You're very lucky. We have a Waw Wa now right down the road. So, the
only thing I could say is is that charge it full full steam ahead down at
the road and then you could park your car anywhere and so forth. Is it
inconvenience? It is, but unfortunately there are only about a handful and and I
I I went around. There's probably two handfuls of car of houses on this town
that don't have a driveway and they're your situation. That's equivalent to
living in Philadelphia. Okay. And at the end of the day, it's
going back and forth, legal, not legal, and so forth. We don't have an
ordinance. We have somebody that's handicapped. At the end of the day,
we can give them a handicapped spot, but at the end, let's be realistic.
You guys really don't want to have 20 foot cables. And I will let you know
something. I work for BMW. >> All right, Joe, your time is up. I'll
give you I'll give you 30 more seconds. >> 30 more seconds.
If this gentleman changes any of his electrical
pieces that he buys from the manufacturer, your warranty is null and
void. Okay? But at the end of the day, I'm just going to let you know
something. You probably don't want, you know, because you don't have it. You
don't want these cables hanging out all over on a on a street.
I It's going to be a disaster. Sorry to bother you guys. Just to thank you, Joe,
guys. >> Any additional public to be heard?
All right. Seeing none, I will entertain a motion to adjurnn.
» So moved. >> Do I have a second?
» Second. >> Thank you. All those in favor?
» I >> I.
» Any nays? Motion passes. >> Thank you everybody.