[9:42] Let's talk about an approval of
tonight's agenda. And if you're if
[9:44] you're willing, uh, give me a motion and
also have a look at minutes from our
[9:48] last meeting.
[9:55] Go ahead and make a motion to approve
the agenda for those three speech. I
[10:00] have a motion
[10:04] and a second from Nathan. That motion is
to approve last minutes meeting and
[10:08] tonight's agenda. Any discussion on
that, please?
[10:11] Seeing none, those in favor, please say
I. I. Any oppose? Okay. Motion passes.
[10:17] Appreciate it. Cheryl, great job on the
minutes as always. your argument. Uh,
[10:22] now we can do public comment period. I'm
in a hurry because I know Kendall is got
[10:27] another appointment tonight. So, um, not
that not that not that you have to say
[10:32] anything. This is open mic uh moment for
anyone who would like to address the
[10:36] council about any topic that they would
like to. Um,
[10:42] you can you can uh can like I think if
you're here, that's what I'm trying to
[10:47] say. If you're here for another agenda
item uh and you are proponent or uh
[10:53] involved in that agenda item, we'll give
you plenty of time to speak on that
[10:56] agenda item. So, you don't have to
address the council at this moment.
[11:00] You're welcome to. Uh with that, Kendall
Welker
[11:05] [clears throat] 4,300
[11:13] » that I still named.
Anyways, just here representing the
[11:18] parks and wreck to give you a little bit
of an update on our meeting last night.
[11:21] We hadn't met for two months because
summer gets crazy. Heritage Days, we
[11:25] paid June the July off. Um, one of the
items we talked about or we had a
[11:31] presentation from the Cash Valley RC
club. Um, and we also had invited Craig
[11:37] Marlo to join us. He was the one that
wanted to take the Andrew bike park um
[11:42] and revamp that. and the RC club wants
part of that bike the bike bike route
[11:49] for their RC cars. So they presented to
us um and we came to a conclusion of
[11:56] Craig was willing to work with them. We
said okay you guys work together come up
[11:59] with the proposal come back to us and
we'll help you refine it to then come to
[12:04] you guys in the near future. So that was
one of the things we talked about. Um,
[12:08] another item was in Norreck as always
and we we say in the floor push on don't
[12:15] let things mainly the county stop us.
Um, any so that was took a long time to
[12:22] get that to not not to get to that point
but lots of discussion. Um, and then the
[12:27] third item um, our committee member
Mandy Mandy Leis he has been in theater
[12:34] most of his life. His daughter is a one
of our citizens, Allison Leler. She's an
[12:41] updator as well. Anyways, he proposed a
while ago about a community theater in
[12:46] Italy. They did a survey results. Um,
and so we talked about what the next
[12:52] steps were. Um, and B, he talked about
lots of different options that don't
[12:58] cost a lot of money, if any at all. Um
and so um we're gonna uh he wants to
[13:05] form a committee, get committee members
and then move forward with some things.
[13:09] One of the ideas he talked about was a
dinner theater um based on survivor and
[13:16] uh he's like he's done it many many
years before. Another one was the
[13:20] nutcracker and having it being a a
family friendly nutcracker. Anyways,
[13:25] excited about that. um things things for
you guys just to know about and that may
[13:31] come in the future.
>> So, perfect.
[13:34] » Um we're not since it's not on since
anything you've talked about is not on
[13:38] the agenda, we won't have a policy
discussion on it, but we can exchange
[13:42] information. You have questions for
Kendall.
[13:48] um of the things you mentioned and
talked about moving forward with parks
[13:52] and rec committee. If you need something
from the council, then let us know.
[13:57] Please let me just know or a council
member.
[14:02] Try to help you help us.
>> Okay. Okay.
[14:06] » We got to stop somewhere.
>> Thank you, Kendall.
[14:12] Okay. If you're if you just come in,
we're in uh public comment period. This
[14:17] is a chance for anyone to speak to the
council about anything they would like.
[14:22] If you're here as an affected party of
something on the agenda,
[14:27] I've promised residents of 2600 South.
Okay. They will have an opportunity to
[14:32] to speak during that agenda item. You
have something else. Let's have it.
[14:36] Thank you.
>> Thank you. Thank the council and did the
[14:40] work to get it by
the pump track. It's awesome.
[14:45] when grandkids haven't give us your
name.
[14:49] » Oh, I'm sorry. Can't see. Thank you.
>> 13.99.
[14:53] » And then the other thing, but that's
that's the good thing. The bad news is
[14:58] got only three days a weekend, but the
parking on West during the uh school
[15:06] time exchange, especially for the middle
school,
[15:11] total mess. I tried to come down the
street the other day with just a tiny
[15:15] trailer and
I'm lucky to get out of there without
[15:19] hitting another car. So that's all but u
that's just brand new pretty new problem
[15:25] for us.
>> Thank you Ken. And again we can exchange
[15:30] information. Um we know of problems with
the new middle school and pick up and
[15:34] drop off. 3200 South was certainly
affected as well. Um, we'll be chatting
[15:39] with principles and staff
to help figure that out. Thanks for your
[15:44] comments. Anyone else like to address
the council?
[15:50] Okay. If not, I'll close the public
comment period and we will go to
[15:56] planning and planning commission report.
Please.
[16:00] » Yes. So, both items that were discussed
and considered at planning commission
[16:04] are on the agenda tonight. So I can I
can give more detail at at the time u at
[16:10] at that time.
>> Perfect. Then we have a chance for brief
[16:15] staff reports. We move this to the front
of the meeting so you all don't have to
[16:19] stay all night long. You guys do.
But anyway, Steve Talon, do you have
[16:27] anything for us? Go ahead. Steve a
licensed public works director.
[16:32] » Yeah, let's take a minute. Uh so for the
summer coming to an end, you've all seen
[16:37] 3200 12 West our new road treatment. Um
I think we are depleted. We have just a
[16:44] little bit of painting left to do, but
it's in anybody's eyesight of what it
[16:49] is. So that was exciting. I don't know.
Probably one of the best chip seal
[16:54] projects I've ever been involved in. It
was spectacular. The guys really did a
[17:00] great job. I hope everybody else feels
the same. There may be some different
[17:05] observations, but yeah, that was good.
Um, one other thing, uh, today we added
[17:10] our other employee to the streets
department. They just wanted to thank
[17:14] you guys and a thank you from public
works for that behalf and it'll be great
[17:20] success to that team and us as
[clears throat] well. So, his name's
[17:24] Danny and Lee and I. So, we're excited
to add to our team.
[17:31] That's it. Any questions?
Eric.
[17:34] » Um, yeah. So, did you work with Logan
then? Uh, when they put up the new rapid
[17:40] flashing beacon at the Creek Parker,
>> Tom can give us my thought on that. He
[17:47] was very involved.
>> And you're welcome to do that now if you
[17:53] invite Tom
>> or if we catch any unawares, we can wait
[17:58] till the end of the meeting too. Either
way, be glad to be good. So, for a
[18:03] couple years, I've been trying to get
Logan to commit to a rapid flashing
[18:06] beacon from Strata that came midblock to
the Firefly Park. It seemed like a great
[18:12] opportunity. The the development to the
east wasn't done yet. Um, I really
[18:17] didn't want I feel uncomfortable having
kids cross on 800 West without
[18:22] supervision. That's one of our bit that
is our busiest road in Nipley, believe
[18:26] it or not. that section of 800 West.
My efforts failed. The mayor stepped in
[18:32] and Justin stepped in and they
collaborated with some higherups and
[18:37] » we didn't achieve a solution. Tom wanted
>> no I had to concede to the powers to be
[18:42] but u hopefully one day we will get that
mid block crossing so people can use the
[18:46] park and not have to go two blocks to
the east. But anyway um they committed
[18:51] to get it done. They tried to get it
done before school started. He missed by
[18:55] a day or two, but it's it's now up and
functioning.
[19:00] » Yeah. Thank you, Tom. Is that
>> Yeah.
[19:04] » Anything else? Uh I I'll say one thing.
I said this to Tom. I'll say to you,
[19:10] Steve, as well. I I I was so opposed to
Ny City doing Chipsy cuz it doesn't ride
[19:18] a bike well. But this was a good thing.
I mean, me back and forth to city hall
[19:25] on 3200 South, I thought the Chipill
project was fantastic. I thought it went
[19:30] really well even for cyclists and you
can nod your head one way or another or
[19:34] stay out of it if if you could.
>> Okay.
[19:37] » Yeah, I [clears throat] think Chip
Hill's come a long ways.
[19:39] » It's come a long way since we're not
leaving a bunch of a bunch of stuff. Can
[19:44] I add to that? I think we're so used to
what Logan does. They have that chip
[19:49] sale and it's slag. They they grabbed
slag from new corn. They truck it all
[19:53] winter preparation for that. And so if
you're judging that, yeah, I don't like
[19:58] that either. In in this selection, Steve
and Chad were very conscious of the bike
[20:03] riders and alternative users. So we
selected a product that was more fine in
[20:08] nature, had a lot of fines and would
bind really well. And it
[20:13] » And then you got the sealer on it.
>> Yeah. And then they sealed that and it
[20:16] just locked everything in. So, right,
kudos to Steve and Chad and they did a
[20:20] great job.
>> Yeah. And while we're on the the the
[20:23] painted bike lanes on the road,
>> appreciated
[20:29] that. Yeah, I see other thumbs up. So,
good job. Um, the road is safer for
[20:34] everybody having painted bike lanes.
That's advice from the Federal Highway
[20:38] Administration and I see it in action.
Great. So,
[20:45] » even though they have painted bike, some
of those that do.
[20:49] » Yeah.
>> Okay. Sorry. Um, one other thing that we
[20:56] did do, um, the crossing lights down on
12 and 3,00 are now east and west
[21:03] instead of north and south and then east
and west. Roundabout. This is on the
[21:08] roundabout. Now that the sidewalk is
completed all the way on the south side
[21:13] of 3200. So before we had the two lights
on 3200. Now we've switched them to 12.
[21:20] So all our kids are staying on the north
side or the south side. South side comes
[21:26] all the way to 9 crosses.
So that's one change we made to slope.
[21:33] » Okay.
>> All right. So,
[21:36] » and that's in conjunction with
principles and school community
[21:40] councils.
>> Yeah, we
[21:41] » perfect. We met with them and updated
all that stuff. So, they updated their
[21:47] smart plan as well. So,
>> okay. Yep. Thanks.
[21:53] Anything else, council? All right. Good
job. Thank you. We Let's move on to
[21:58] update from the Nibbly Morgan farm.
Roxy, are you the star or is Mike the
[22:04] star or bring your star?
>> Forgot to click her
[22:11] gonna tag team us.
>> Yeah, here while she
[22:16] » Yeah.
[22:19] » Um
here we just started doing our annual
[22:24] review which has been our lease
agreement to do so once a year. um we
[22:28] feel like after the fair is a really
good time to kind of um let everybody
[22:33] know where we're at and so that's what
this is um tonight. So, um, can sorry I
[22:41] need to switch
>> and Roxy, can you speak like put your
[22:46] face right in that mic if you lose?
>> We're very popular when you get You may
[22:51] not.
>> Oh, did you just want to go to the next
[22:53] slide or did you want to go to the
video?
[22:56] » Sorry, I thought you meant the video.
[23:06] um way back started. And so just to kind
of remind everybody that we are staying
[23:13] within those goals that we did set. Um
the Brooklyn is like a historic type of
[23:19] you know we want to take historic feel
um take care of the place that way. And
[23:25] then um we also uh have three other
goals. One is community garden. Oh,
[23:32] thanks. Um one is community garden, the
other is um like kind of a community
[23:38] piece. Um and then thirdly, we have a 4.
So we kind of these four things. And so
[23:43] as we go through tonight, we hope that
you can see the correlation between
[23:47] those. Um but what we really feel like
we really hit a home run in this year
[23:54] was our um outreach, our public any
outreach to um any and all. So anyway,
[24:01] that's what we're going to spend just a
few highlights really is all we're going
[24:04] to talk about tonight and of course you
can any questions. Um so our first one
[24:10] is our flag field. It was wildly popular
and we'll go ahead and let Savannah talk
[24:15] about it. um she sort of was the brain
behind like had the idea but then she
[24:20] kind of took over on that.
>> Yeah. So we we founded in these um flags
[24:28] that we got to us um and it was just
like a little we actually had a
[24:34] photographer come one night the day of
heritage days and just randomly asked if
[24:39] could take some pictures with the vibes
up. So we took some pictures and then we
[24:44] were like, "Hey, we should open this up
to lots of people to take pictures." So
[24:48] we posted it about it on our Instagram
and we had a lot of interest. We had one
[24:53] or two photographers there at night for
about a month. We had people coming down
[24:58] Lake kind of all over cuz it's kind of a
unique barn flag escape. Uh, and then
[25:05] someone that was getting to Florida to
draw his family, um, and took pictures
[25:09] there. Someone that was just graduating
from what was it called? Boot camp came
[25:14] and took pictures. So, there's a fun
littleish atmosphere.
[25:19] And incidentally, um, the kids on the
screen, the reason we chose this one is
[25:23] because it kind of draws back to Nibbly.
Um, these are Ruth's grandkids and those
[25:30] hats on those kids are um her late
husband Kelly and her daughter did this
[25:35] beautiful post about him and so we
thought that was really appropriate to
[25:41] bring that picture with us and of course
we got the [snorts]
[25:45] um all right so here's just a few
pictures um we had even like fashion
[25:51] models come which was wildly weird for
[laughter]
[25:54] But it's like the real deal, I guess, in
the fashion world. Uh, but that's just
[26:00] to share a little bit. Um, if you do get
time later, any of these little
[26:03] Instagram things, these are the posts
that are related to that event that we
[26:08] that we're talking about. Um, all right,
we're going to go ahead and move on and
[26:13] talk about our arm, which has also been
super popular.
[26:18] Yeah, I feel like this has really helped
on our community outreach this year. um
[26:22] Utah State Extension donated this shed
to us. It was their old 4 shed and we
[26:28] had been we tried last year to do a
little farm stand and it didn't really
[26:31] work out very good. So we took this
opportunity for this week shed um to
[26:37] fill it with products and we really
tried to the way it's set up is people
[26:42] who we tried to keep it midly people who
came to do it in midly they can sell
[26:48] their products that they make
handcrafted products um out of this box
[26:52] and we sell our flowers
local honey just a bunch of stuff and
[26:58] it's been a really cool place of
community where they'll I don't know can
[27:03] just meet each other and kind of show
off your talent. So that means that it's
[27:09] beginning of June.
Yeah.
[27:14] And um also the Morgan farm landed in a
magazine. I don't know a lot about it.
[27:21] I'm going to be truthful, but it
apparently has international reach. Um,
[27:26] so this is part of this picture here
that we included is kind of
[27:30] [clears throat] the the main piece. Um,
the and then the rest of the story comes
[27:36] later. But, uh, Savannah ended up being
in uh, with these other models, which
[27:43] also looks wildly different than the
rest. This actually was taken after
[27:47] heritage days, and we were just cleaning
up. So, she is not um, model ready, if
[27:53] you will. [snorts] And then there's all
these models pictures and then which was
[27:57] pretty funny to see. But um anyway, we
thought it was cool. Also, the person
[28:02] who's behind.
[28:12] All right. Um so then we'll talk about
the flower garden and some things that
[28:16] we are doing with that. We have some um
things we don't use on it. So we'll
[28:22] never talk about those.
[28:27] » Yeah. So our started last year is a big
success. Um we hosted lots of events
[28:32] here. We try and keep them really
affordable for the community. So we've
[28:38] had a few what we call upic events where
the community can come and they kind of
[28:43] get free rain of the flower garden. They
can cut whatever flowers they want, make
[28:47] their own bouquet, keep it to a dollar
instead just to make it nice and
[28:52] affordable. Um, we did a back to school
night. We did a flower crown night.
[28:58] We have like a birthday party which is
hosting here.
[29:04] Last year we went
um a couple
[29:08] assisted living homes and did
like bouquet making or harvested flowers
[29:15] brought them to them and then they were
able to kind of create their own bouquet
[29:18] for their their room. Um
what events oh we donated to both
[29:25] Ridgeline and Malcross culture class
last year and plan to do the same again
[29:29] this year. Um,
oh, and this year we also did the
[29:35] flowers for the nibbly
nibbly Utah.
[29:41] So, we did all the little bookcase all
day. So, it's been a lot of fun. Um, and
[29:46] I feel like it's a big eye catch for new
people.
[29:52] Additionally, we use this as an
educational space for each kids. um were
[29:57] able to go in and um they helped us with
some planting of both the garden and the
[30:04] flowers and then as they check on them
grow through the summer they're able to
[30:09] come in and take whatever they want um
and do some entries that they're too
[30:14] little.
[30:18] All right. Um, this is the thing that
I'm most excited about, but we piloted
[30:23] with um, Utah State University Extension
um, some assisted learning. Um, this is
[30:28] kind of a big process and kind of a big
deal because every horse that's used has
[30:34] to be safety assessed, which means we
have to do a lot of work with these
[30:38] animals. They don't just sit in the
field and then get pulled out and used
[30:42] here and there. they're consistently
constantly um being desensitized and
[30:47] work with so that they are safe for the
people that work with them and we are
[30:52] not the ones that do the assessing. We
have um State University does that for
[30:56] us. So, it's a third party. Um, and we
were also able to partner with another
[31:03] scale United and we ran um an adult
session in the fall and we did a teen
[31:10] session during the winter and um it
focused on mental health. And then um in
[31:18] the summer we did um was called 143
and that was quite popular and we are
[31:25] again ready to run that. We have two
different sessions going. We have a
[31:28] school session during the day and then
we have a public school session um in
[31:33] the earlier like
um we posted that yesterday and it is
[31:39] already more than full. And so this is
something that's really popular. has a
[31:45] research pieces to it and we'll also
detect research on these um kids that
[31:50] came in. We already have everything set
up with USU um for uh doing research
[31:56] with you. So um that is ready to go and
we're very excited about it.
[32:03] Um here is some of our just to show you
like our flyer that went out yesterday
[32:08] and then just a few pictures of some of
the um different um sessions that we
[32:15] did.
That brings us to the 4
[32:20] and um ultimately they have to be fair
rodeo. Um we had a huge group of 4 this
[32:27] year. um or age for some reason we
didn't at the office. They didn't have
[32:32] it like listed at a certain age. So we
had tons of kids that were younger than
[32:37] they're even supposed to be, but we just
ran with it and it was like we're going
[32:41] to pay off every time we had it. But we
um took each week was a throw. And so
[32:48] like I said earlier, we started with
like the flowers in the garden and got
[32:53] those in the grounded and then we moved
on to each week. For example, we did go
[32:58] dogs and I think we did or maybe we did
horses so that they have the um that
[33:04] interaction with each of those different
types of animals. They were able to
[33:08] learn to deborm goats and what are for
and they were able to see how it go from
[33:14] poopy to shaved and what do we do if
they're fiber now and this is what it
[33:18] looks like when it comes off. So, we had
a lot of different learning
[33:21] opportunities. Um, probably my favorite
things
[33:26] and so just enjoying the space. Uh, the
goats were probably forever traumatized
[33:31] by the ch the children, but it's good.
Um, it it makes for a better end. Um, we
[33:39] also have a lot of agricultural
leadership and youth um, education that
[33:45] have gone on in this space down at the
farm. So, we've had a lot of different
[33:49] groups request to come in and learn
about whether it be um like rodeo
[33:55] cleanings. They have some girl scouts
that came in and they did a whole um we
[34:00] have scouts come in and um we did a
whole a whole program with them. So,
[34:05] we're trying to always do some sort of
education where we part of that program.
[34:12] So, this is just a little bit of just a
few pictures of some of the kids with
[34:16] their entries and um taking these
animals to the bear. Um like the the
[34:23] bottom picture there with the the horse,
the 2-year-old horse, we have to take
[34:28] her and get her used to all sorts of
different experiences so that she will
[34:33] be able to be safe and used with the
console and the programming. Um and then
[34:38] finally if you look at the upper left
that picture is just some of our kids at
[34:44] the closing. So for 4 we when you are
part of for a service and so our service
[34:52] project this year was to do a
humanitarian kid drive or little lambs.
[34:57] we like to support them whenever we can
and Ted is great to work with and so we
[35:02] did a little drive and um took that over
to his place and um sent some hot dogs
[35:08] and and had a good time. So anyway, that
is kind of how the 4 went here that was
[35:14] fan captive. Um this is just to show you
our 2020 biography
[35:21] it was to put in that um roadway. I call
it a road. Some people call it a
[35:26] walkway, but anyways, gravel is space.
Um, and Steve has been so helpful in
[35:32] getting it done in. So, we want to make
sure and
[35:35] and we couldn't without these guys. Um,
but so helpful in in making these.
[35:42] Um, and then we got a 2026 grant that
will put in an additional opening good
[35:50] for the channel with a training area
that keeps the animals off of the main
[35:55] lanes and keeps the public safe while
the kids can in a space that's better
[36:00] for them as well. So, uh, that brings us
to our trailer. So, if someone will
[36:06] please, now listen, this did not exist
in
[36:11] giving me grace. We wanted to show you
>> and goes on. And that's it. That's all
[36:17] we've got for today.
[36:24] » Oh, sorry.
[36:30] » Oh,
listen to it.
[36:46] While Levi's working on that, if we
don't distract you, Levi, maybe you can
[36:50] ignore us. Um, comments, questions for
the council or
[36:55] uh Roxy Savannah.
[clears throat]
[36:59] » I'm sorry.
[37:08] program
this year or that's still in process.
[37:12] » Yeah. So, we uh we moved all of ours
down to that property. Um we we worked
[37:18] it out with uh the the previous lease
that with the fencing down there. So, we
[37:24] got that all worked out with it. So, we
were able to use the back part. Um our
[37:28] plan next year is is to use the front
part as well. Um if if it all works out
[37:33] and we get the infrastructure down
there, we could even house some like
[37:37] steer down there as 4 project. So I mean
that's that's saving the you know the
[37:43] animals cost a lot to feed and for the
community and so that having being able
[37:48] to preserve the farm and not overg graze
down there having another place where
[37:51] they can graze has been invaluable for
us to be able to others out there. So
[37:57] » yeah. Well, just to add, that's why
we're able to do the
[38:02] that's why we're able to make the black
field happen because that field open and
[38:07] let it grow. So, we had our
So, that was good. And then one more
[38:14] question. Um, is there anything that you
specifically need from the city or like
[38:19] any additional support that you could
use from us in the coming year?
[38:23] Um, this was a question that I've been
chatting with Justin about. I don't know
[38:27] if now's the opportunity to talk about
that. Um, so the Petersons were leasing,
[38:33] Clark Peterson, their family was leasing
the is it 40 acres? I'm not sure what
[38:38] the lot size is downsh
[38:42] is at. Um, we were hoping to
>> this is our regional park.
[38:47] » Yeah.
>> Hope someday
[38:50] the fourth dimension. Yeah, we were just
hoping to maybe utilize that property to
[38:55] uh um be able to harvest the the the
grass hay down there or even if it alo
[39:02] um to help number one feed the animals
that's down there. So, we would, you
[39:06] know, continue to have it bail cut and
bailed and watered or maintained. Um and
[39:11] then any extra stuff that we had in the
federal could sell it um to help fund
[39:16] the a bit more as a funding
piece. So that's something we're hoping
[39:21] for. But the one of the other things
that we would like to possibly do is we
[39:25] did have them we had some 4 kids down
there. They were interested in learning
[39:29] how to um cut hay and and bail hay. And
we actually got them hooked up with who
[39:36] was it the the Zinger guy that does cuts
hay in the valley. And so we would like
[39:41] this to be an opportunity for us to hook
kids and youth in to be able to to learn
[39:46] how to maintain pastures and Petart's uh
farmland. So
[39:52] » I think they should be doing it on a
75year-old farm.
[39:57] [laughter]
That's that's
[40:00] » appreciate
appreciate what it takes.
[40:04] » Yeah.
um you know something that you know
[40:09] they're discussing that um has maybe an
um
[40:15] uh there are many times where like
extension are like learning environments
[40:20] for hay and I myself would like to learn
a little bit more about it but every
[40:24] time I look at them they're like two
dollars don't want that other stuff um
[40:30] and so we would like to open that up as
something because we have an affiliation
[40:35] with extension and because certain um
people have like part of their they have
[40:41] extensions um and so that's something
that they can come down and do is teach
[40:47] the whoever you know we can open it up
just like we have one of these other um
[40:51] programming where learning about growing
a is something that is learned how you
[40:57] take care of all of that that can be
done for a minimal charge or no no
[41:01] charge um and so um as we talking about
it. Um, I said, you know, like
[41:08] everything to me is a is an outdoor
classroom learning opportunity. So when
[41:13] someone drives by the farm, they see a
farm. When I'm there, I see an outdoor
[41:18] classroom of 8 acres and limited
possibilities for children for children.
[41:23] Um, and and anyone who should be there.
So
[41:31] question. Um, do we have a or do you all
have a vision guess maybe an internal
[41:36] timeline for what the barn is in terms
of what your hopes are? Um, I'm forgive
[41:41] me if I should probably know this
already, but
[41:44] » well
>> maybe maybe timeline especially.
[41:46] » Happy birthday by the way.
>> Oh, thanks. Yeah.
[41:49] » Um, well Justin and I are meeting
together this week about the farm. So we
[41:54] are in conversation um about that. Any
any chance? Yeah, I'll take any chance.
[42:01] Even if I know it's probably not going
to turn out to be something, I'll take
[42:05] it anyway because if I don't do it, it's
for sure. And so, I did apply for a
[42:10] grant earlier this year. Um, I worked
really hard on it and I hoped and hoped,
[42:15] but I kind of knew before I did in
because I had met with with um the
[42:19] people in charge that our space was too
developed for what they were looking
[42:23] for. Um they wanted really just you know
five years ago perfect where we had a
[42:30] concept plan that Utah State University
had already done and we we had something
[42:35] in motion we almost became ineligible.
Um so we didn't get it and you know you
[42:42] spill yourself when you get a grant.
>> Um yeah we'll we'll take anything. Um
[42:47] this is just a a lead we we worked off
of. Um, it is our hardest thing, right?
[42:53] That barn. Um, and it's like I told
Jess, well, I was telling everyone in
[42:58] the meeting that like if the barn wasn't
there as far as what happens in like day
[43:04] in day out, nothing changes because we
can't use the barn. Everything still
[43:08] happens. But it's that piece that's
missing that makes it feel so important.
[43:14] And so historically, it connects. That's
why the flag pole was important to us is
[43:19] because we wanted people to have their
feet on on the ground in the flag by
[43:25] because that does something to a person
and and my grandfather was a World War
[43:32] II vet and I've always had great respect
for um what his purpose was and I wanted
[43:38] I wanted to give anyone a chance who
could be in a flag of that armed um
[43:45] additionally We had some we had an event
the other night on Saturday. We had some
[43:50] people from our city who stopped by and
like we saw this place and we're like
[43:55] what is this? And it was the bar and now
they're like we this is amazing. So
[44:02] trying to keep that up is is the thing I
care so much about but it's it is the
[44:08] hardest hurdle to jump
to talk about that.
[44:13] » Yeah. That's just a I mean we had an
engineer go and look at it uh 7 8 years
[44:17] ago and that's kind of when the doors
got locked and it was restricted to you
[44:22] know pretty much staff only as needed
and the cost estimates back then were
[44:27] pretty staggering um to do much else
other than to stand it up. So when Mike
[44:32] and Roxy took over, Mike went in and did
some cable tying and did some things to
[44:36] try to stabilize it whatnot for with
what he could do. But, uh, it's just a
[44:40] matter of money, getting the money to
take care of and deciding what you
[44:44] really want to do with it. Do you want
to just keep it up in the air the way it
[44:47] is, or do you want to make it into some
sort of functioning facility where maybe
[44:51] you could rent it for weddings or
gatherings or whatever? I mean, the
[44:55] sky's is the limit on what you can do.
It just depends on where how much money
[44:59] we can gather up.
Okay. It would be a shame to see all
[45:07] just and just one more thing. I just
want to thank you all for all the effort
[45:10] you put in. My daughter participated in
the summer program and she comes home
[45:15] one day and says, "Dad, I dewormed a
goat." And I'm like, that's not that was
[45:21] not a sentence that I would have ever
expected.
[45:25] But just the fact that this is an
opportunity for uh newly citizens to
[45:30] have it's such a special thing. So just
[45:35] » and thank you for all of your support
and thanks everybody.
[45:41] » Are we queued up? I I have some council
has some say you want to watch the video
[45:47] first.
[45:52] » There's a couple of them.
[47:12] Okay.
[48:15] thoughts.
Um,
[48:19] I have to say I Savannah, I viewed the
flag field as a tractor swallow course
[48:26] [laughter]
and the kids in the wagon that were
[48:29] getting rides really enjoyed it.
[48:33] Boy, did a boy. What? I always managed
to kick the fun out of everything. How's
[48:39] your 501c3 nonprofit coming along? You
guys getting that organized to operate
[48:46] things? And so if if people here don't
know, the property is owned by Nibbly
[48:52] City, owned by US Nibbly citizens. And
then we lease the property to a
[48:56] nonprofit organization called the Morgan
Farm. I think
[49:01] » Morgan Farm,
[49:05] Billy. So, so you're operating
underneath that non-toxic organization.
[49:09] How's that coming along that transition
and did if it's not you don't have to
[49:14] say any more than you want to?
>> I think it's coming along pretty well.
[49:18] They could also speak to it. Um, we also
someone mentioned like meeting in the
[49:24] summer is hard. He was already here. Um,
I found that to be true last summer. Um
[49:30] it's difficult but um otherwise I mean I
think we're learning getting things put
[49:36] together but it is like put together
running and um just figuring out you
[49:43] know jumping through the hoops as they
they come.
[49:46] » Okay. Yeah. We have found that we by
having the nonprofit I mean we're open
[49:53] to more grants um but then also we
people are more than happy to donate. So
[49:59] a lot of the things that were donated
for the kids to plant um in the high
[50:04] tunnel and such that was donated by USU
on their greenhouse
[50:09] um that they have uh the name of it but
they're the one you can go buy stuff. Um
[50:15] they donated all of that stuff and and
we had a garden gateway donated a bunch
[50:21] of pumpkins. And so it's really really
great to have that like community
[50:28] connection and people always say but
it's for the kids, right? Like that's
[50:32] we're happy to do it. We try to take
that we we don't take that light. They
[50:39] we want to be good.
>> Okay, perfect. Thank you. Um, one of the
[50:45] things we'll come back to, Mike, is uh,
lease of the property
[50:51] um, for a production. Like you said, the
Petersons don't want to arm that
[50:55] anymore. I've started that conversation
with individual council members, but
[50:59] we'll bring it to an we'll bring it to a
head. We started that in light of some
[51:04] other properties for council to think
about individually
[51:08] um, as well, but we'll we'll bring that
to a conclusion. We we need to have that
[51:13] figured out
before it's time to start paying.
[51:17] » Yeah. So like by next uh February like
this coming February or something. Yeah.
[51:22] So we can plan for how to irrigate it
what you know that kind of stuff gets
[51:28] somebody lined up to cut it. So
>> and yeah we should make that
[51:34] in time while the Petersons are still
involved to transfer some knowledge
[51:39] about irrigation. Exactly. Okay. Okay.
Thank you. Anything else? You guys are
[51:46] knocking that out of the park. Thank you
so much. You add a lot to our community.
[51:50] Truly appreciate it.
[51:54] » Okay. Uh next we have a discussion which
will be an update on the 2600 South
[52:03] sidewalk project.
Yes. [clears throat] Tom. Oh, sorry
[52:08] you're jumping ahead. Um, so we'll have
Tom give us a recap of the objectives
[52:14] for that project. If if uh just as a
reminder uh how we did on achieving
[52:19] those objectives, issues that may have
come up during the construction issues
[52:25] that may not have been resolved yet. U
this is this is just here an update on
[52:30] the project. I have flood residents of
2600 know there's been there's been a
[52:35] substantial amount of correspondence
devoted to this. So, there's an
[52:39] opportunity for the residents to be part
of our discussion. Um, I'm not sure if
[52:46] you chose a spokesman. You didn't have
to. I suggest that or now. Um, but
[52:50] that's fine. If you all want to speak,
if however you want to work it out, we
[52:56] welcome you to be part of the
discussion. We'll start with Tom to lead
[52:59] it off.
>> I've got a couple pages of notes. I
[53:02] don't know how condensed of a report
you'd like but and go through how this
[53:06] project started. Came to us a request
from the principal of Nibbling Middle or
[53:12] Nibbling Elementary School. She was
concerned with the kids walking on the
[53:16] narrow sidewalk. They're getting out in
the mud. They're getting out in the road
[53:20] on bikes trying to get around the mud
and it just she felt it was unsafe. So
[53:25] went with her got some objectives.
Student sa student safety was the
[53:28] primary objective. I put together some
cost estimates and we got it budgeted in
[53:34] the 202526
budget here. So primary objectives as I
[53:39] said were student safety, there was
history of historic flooding, standing
[53:44] water and some front yards
and the other primary objectives was to
[53:49] minimize impact to property owners. Now
that doesn't eliminate the impact but is
[53:54] to minimize impact. The way that was
done was to we explored different things
[54:00] on the width of the sidewalk. We didn't
want to encroach into the property lines
[54:04] and the existing curbs on either end of
this lacking section. We ended up
[54:09] shifting the sidewalk 10 ft on the east.
It's 10 ft wide on the east end, but
[54:15] then we had to narrow it down to stay
within the ride ofway boundary on the
[54:18] west side. So it it's not uniformly 10
ft. We wanted to maximize maximize the
[54:23] width, but due to the property lines and
the existing
[54:27] existing curb and gutter, we ended up
just kind of tapering it, shifting it
[54:31] just slightly there to keep in the right
of way. Um
[54:36] Justin and I talked about other ways to
minimize impacts. One was to possibly
[54:43] bring the sidewalk down at each
driveway, flatten it out, and then bring
[54:49] it back up on the other side. But the
risk there was the drainage. We wouldn't
[54:54] meet the drainage mitigation and the
flooding mitigation. So, we decided,
[54:57] okay, we're going to narrow the sidewalk
to four feet on the backside and and
[55:02] minimize the approach
percentage on the approach. So, we we
[55:07] tried to do that. And then typically a
sidewalk would be a two 2% cross slope
[55:12] which would bring it up over 10 ft. It'd
be 2% so two or yeah 2 ft. So roughly
[55:21] 3 4 in. So we lowered that as as far as
we could to about a one and a half% just
[55:27] to minimize the height differential from
the existing. And then as we reached the
[55:32] west end, we actually shifted the the
cross slope toward the properties to
[55:38] minimize it even further. So all in all
from one end to the other, the grade
[55:43] differential from existing to the new
grade was between 67 feet, which is
[55:52] 2/3 of a foot. My math my math isn't
math. That's
[55:57] » Yeah, exactly. So 67 ft on one end and
about 2 feet on the other. So 2 and 12
[56:04] in to 8. Thank you. So and that's just
because the curve we had to match that
[56:11] curve and and there the other things
that we did is instead of what it's
[56:17] called a daylight. So where that that
sidewalk ends to where it catches. So
[56:23] you have to grade back down. You don't
want a vertical cliff at the edge of the
[56:26] sidewalk. to create this daylight. And
typically a standard would be 3:1. We
[56:33] chose 10 to one. We tried to do it at
much slower or much more shallow slope
[56:38] to so it's not so vertical. It's it's
more appeasing and it's easier to
[56:42] maintain as well. So we use the American
Public Works standards, APWA, American
[56:49] Public Works Association standards, and
it gives us how to design things. It
[56:53] tells us what the crossover is. that
that's the percentage change from the
[56:58] crown of the road to the approach of the
driveway. It gives us the cross slope on
[57:03] the sidewalk and the running slope. And
then it also gives us an acceptable
[57:09] daylight from the back of the sidewalk
to tie into existing driveways that are
[57:14] impacted with new construction. So these
things are are adopted by multiple
[57:19] communities in Utah pretty uniformly
adopted. Other larger cities have their
[57:24] own standards which would they're pretty
much based on the APWA standards but
[57:28] they they'll modify it for certain
things like water lines or specific
[57:32] things that they want to do but we use
the APWA standards. So and then in so
[57:37] doing we also I ask that instead of
meeting that to this to the nth degree
[57:43] that we minimize it even more. For
example, the crossover slope from the
[57:48] road and up to the driveways is 16%.
That's just really a big steep thing. So
[57:55] I says we need to minimize that where we
can. So we got it down to like 12 13%.
[58:00] And then also the the uh crossover slope
in the back and sideway to tie into
[58:04] those is up to 12% and we tried to hit
around 8 to 10% just to minimize that
[58:12] steep tie in from the back of the
sidewalk to tie to the existing
[58:17] driveways.
We worked together with Justin. I I
[58:23] tasked him with the public outreach to
make first contact with the the uh
[58:29] property owners. He he made his
attempts. He reported back to me and
[58:34] where when we did that it's not like he
went out with nothing in his hands. We
[58:39] had a 60% drawing which basically 60%
drawing is a a relative horizontal
[58:44] alignment. So you can see about where
the curve is going to be, the sidewalk's
[58:47] going to be. Then you also have that
vertical element that's approximate at
[58:52] that point. But you can on that plan
that he was given, it showed the great
[58:57] differential at each driveway. So he was
able to present that to the people that
[59:02] he met with and they can visualize and
and measure out what 67 ft is.
[59:09] After he gave me the green light to go,
we finished the plans and we went to
[59:12] bid. We started construction right after
school got out. I gave a a wide window
[59:17] of construction because I wanted some
pretty good pricing to just get cheaper
[59:22] pricing from the developer from a
contractor, but they decided to get
[59:27] right on it. I gave them till September
15th to clean everything up like any
[59:32] last minute landscaping or signs or
something like that. So, they're still
[59:36] within their contractual window, but
they they've uh done just about
[59:41] everything. They're they're missing the
flashing stop sign that was specked out
[59:47] on
8ighth West.
[59:50] For some reason, that's really
backorded, but they're hoping to get it
[59:53] by Tuesday. I just got a report this
this afternoon. They're hoping to get it
[59:56] Tuesday. And then, let's see.
[1:00:05] I want to talk about some other public
outreach that we did. There was at least
[1:00:09] three door hangers posted by a city
staff and I knocked on every one of the
[1:00:13] doors. That was about a week before the
construction that says a
[1:00:17] pre-construction notice. This thing's
coming. Following up on Justin's
[1:00:21] meetings. Then there was another one in
June from the contractor that says,
[1:00:26] "Hey, we're going to be placing curb.
Please park over at the the park parking
[1:00:31] lot across the way." And then we did a
landscape flyer on June 30th that says,
[1:00:35] "Hey, this is a bad time to do
landscaping. We know this, but we want
[1:00:39] this landscaping to survive. So, we're
going to give you a $100 credit on your
[1:00:43] water bill to keep it alive." And they
finished that up around
[1:00:49] July, the first week of July, the
hottest week. And uh the landscape
[1:00:55] contractor
fabricated all these sprinklers for
[1:00:58] everybody. and all they had to do was
connect their hose and turn it on and
[1:01:02] then then it gave pretty good coverage
for it. So by the first second week of
[1:01:07] July all the landscaping was done. So
I'm going to back up to once the heart
[1:01:12] surfaces were complete couple days after
the driveways were done all the sidewalk
[1:01:16] was done by this time the curb and
gutter and all the pading was done. We
[1:01:20] did a walk through we found one of the
driveways was out of spec. And when I
[1:01:23] when I say out of spec,
what happened was they they put it in
[1:01:29] and when they when we started measuring
up, they had an actual belly in it and
[1:01:34] they tried to fix it in the field by
taking a weed burner, heating up the
[1:01:39] asphalt and using rakes and scraping it
and trying to use shovels to try to get
[1:01:44] it to slope in the direction that the
plan showed. And in so doing, instead of
[1:01:49] a good transition, there was like
picture taking a pipe and cutting it in
[1:01:54] half. So it went down and then this
little belly curve and then went back up
[1:01:59] and says that that wasn't the intent. So
when we said, "Hey, this needs to be
[1:02:04] replaced." I said, "Well, that's really
a tight tolerance." They asked if they
[1:02:07] could take out some more side or some
more of the driveway so we can have a
[1:02:11] easier tolerance to get that cross slope
to get it to drain into the grass. And
[1:02:16] we agreed to that. finally split some
cost and and taken out a little bit
[1:02:19] more. They did replace that. I
don't have my notes on there. It's
[1:02:26] probably the end of July, probably 22nd,
23rdish, and then it took him another
[1:02:33] week or so to get back there to restore
the max where they've done that as well.
[1:02:38] So, I mentioned that it's we tried to
minimize the impacts, but it's not
[1:02:44] impact free. Whenever you have these
great differentials, we have to figure
[1:02:47] out what to do with driveways.
And in this case, with it being higher,
[1:02:53] we ended up having to dish these and
follow our American Public Works
[1:02:57] Association standards and try to direct
the drainage into a grassy or landscaped
[1:03:03] area. Now, I did some research on the
soils that are in the area, and it it
[1:03:10] when it gets wet, all everything runs
down and puddles and pools, and then it
[1:03:15] pushes off into these landscape areas,
and it should be drying up or
[1:03:19] percolating at about a half an inch per
hour. So, if we get two inches of rain,
[1:03:26] it's going to be four hours of puddling.
It should dissipate and percolate in the
[1:03:30] ground according to the the research I
did. and and ran some numbers on the
[1:03:35] percolation rates that after every
rainstorm there there's going to be some
[1:03:39] some standing water and it should
dissipate and and saturated ground. So a
[1:03:45] a question was posed early on when
there's some a ball of emails running
[1:03:49] back and forth that know is this legal
to do that? You've checked with our city
[1:03:54] attorney at this at that time and it is
it is an allowable practice to change
[1:04:00] the grade on the road and have a
homeowner maintain their own swarm.
[1:04:08] I hope I haven't missed anything. If you
have any specific questions, I'd be glad
[1:04:12] to answer them now. Okay. As of now,
again, what's missing is the the stop
[1:04:18] sign. I didn't mention any parking
potentially, but
[1:04:23] at one point during the design and and
bidding, we we like, "Hey, why do we
[1:04:29] restrict parking
there? Why do we say, hey, all your kids
[1:04:34] are at school,
but don't pick them up there. Go
[1:04:37] somewhere else to pick them up."
And question, well, is it dangerous? Is
[1:04:42] it congestion? Is it is it dangerous to
kids because they're running out? And we
[1:04:47] says, "Well, let's try without it. Let's
let's say let's allow the parking a
[1:04:51] pickup and drop off along here. It's on
the same side of the road as the kids
[1:04:56] are getting out of school. They people
could park there, pick up their kid, and
[1:05:01] take off. Um on the first day of school,
I was out there in the afternoon, which
[1:05:05] is the most concentrated.
It was 7 minutes from the time kids
[1:05:10] started walking down the sidewalk to the
time that that [clears throat] sidewalk
[1:05:14] was cleared." And in that that after
seven minutes there was one car still
[1:05:20] parked there and it was actually the
crossing guard's car. So she had to stay
[1:05:24] there another 15 to get people out
there. So
[1:05:31] » any other questions?
>> We'll just let the conversation move
[1:05:34] along. Any last questions now? Council
>> Justin, do you have Sorry. Randy, do you
[1:05:39] have something to ask?
Um well maybe if I had water pulling on
[1:05:45] me grass I would probably install a
drain myself. I would do that if you get
[1:05:49] some gravel and I just see it you know I
would do that. Is the city willing to
[1:05:56] where there is water standing any amount
of time are they willing to put a small
[1:06:00] drain in and dig down some gravel so
that it just goes down or is that
[1:06:04] something on the table or or not? I
wasn't part of that discussion, but I
[1:06:08] think that was actually specifically
mentioned something that they call it a
[1:06:12] sump where we could come back and and
and dig a gravel area that the water
[1:06:17] could saturate into immediately and then
dissipate into the ground rather than
[1:06:22] being standing for the two hours that it
might be in the in the calculations that
[1:06:28] are
>> Okay. And it gives me maybe the second
[1:06:32] thought is I was just curious um no me
and I the drive
[1:06:40] realize I'd be raised up most every time
you see a home with the driveway we
[1:06:45] always wor slow but they just good right
we did that was there any conversation
[1:06:52] with the residents about maybe saying
we're going to have to put a little
[1:06:56] asphalt in here to kind of smooth it so
it's not so sloping
[1:07:00] if I can use that
conserve.
[1:07:03] Was there any conversation of saying
this could be expensive, but if we're
[1:07:07] here to do a new driveway,
they would, [clears throat] you know,
[1:07:11] fork out most of the bill on that. Was
there a conversation with the residents
[1:07:15] to see if you want to put in a new
driveway that would actually have a
[1:07:19] small slope to the road that would look
like most of the drive?
[1:07:24] » So, there was one homeowner that did
reach out to the contractor on site and
[1:07:28] they did get a price for it. I believe
it was somewhere in the $4,400 range,
[1:07:32] $4,500 range. They they chose not to
employ the contractor.
[1:07:40] » Okay. Thank you.
[1:07:46] » Uh affected parties, uh our only ask is
that you tell us identify yourselves.
[1:07:52] You can pass that mic around. You can do
that. The second ask is that you speak
[1:07:57] into the microphone.
stay here.
[1:08:00] » You can sit there and pass that
microphone around if you'd like.
[1:08:05] » So, I'll just maybe go first. I didn't I
apologize. I have to
[1:08:10] u
[1:08:14] » um I think our [clears throat] biggest
thing is to just make sure that
[1:08:18] » please please speak directly to Thank
you.
[1:08:21] » You know, we we tried to do a lot of
work on the back end before this to get
[1:08:26] the information and our perspective. We
do feel like we have pretty unique
[1:08:30] perspective and input on all this. Um,
but just a couple of points. Um, I would
[1:08:36] say on the outreach that Tom mentioned,
I think a lot of that was more like the
[1:08:42] execution of the plan. I would say that
that was maybe because
[1:08:48] did realize what the plans were going to
entail as it relates to the driveway and
[1:08:53] the impacts there and those things. So I
think that was one challenge that we
[1:08:57] had. Um I think going forward what we're
trying to understand is you know we it
[1:09:03] wasn't ideal I think for all of us as
home owners to have this dip in our
[1:09:07] driveway. Um but we did get promise from
the city that things would be made
[1:09:13] right. Um and so we're just trying to um
monitor a few things going forward. So,
[1:09:20] we do have concerns that there will be
some pooling in the driveway still in
[1:09:26] some of the driveways. Our driveway is
pretty good with a thin layer that
[1:09:30] remains, but right now it's been
evaporating. Um, but we do we've seen
[1:09:36] some of the other driveways definitely
fully in the driveway as well in the
[1:09:40] grass. So there's some concerns there
and we just don't want some kind of
[1:09:44] statute of limitation on this to run
where we say oh
[1:09:50] make that work. Okay. So we're just
trying to get on the same page there. Um
[1:09:54] and where's that little you know we
worry that
[1:10:03] um I have three or four other points
that I c I need to go through those.
[1:10:10] Tom, you mentioned the the Steines. We
do have a perspective there. I think it
[1:10:15] takes typically much longer than that
was the timed
[1:10:20] run there. We are concerned just about
safety, our ability to back out. It
[1:10:25] causes a major challenge for my wife in
that time. Uh as well as safety, trying
[1:10:30] to get into the driveway. You can't see
and who knows kids are running or have
[1:10:35] their bikes and there could be a there.
Um,
[1:10:40] so anyways, I I will vouch that Justin
did uh tell us that they would do it
[1:10:47] like a drain, you know, if things aren't
draining well in the grass. So, we're
[1:10:51] appreciative of that. I don't think any
of that's been done to any of the
[1:10:55] properties yet, but that would be
something that we would be interested in
[1:10:58] request if we identified like there's
one homeowner that they definitely have
[1:11:04] like in their grass area. It's
[1:11:10] there. So anyways, those are kind of my
two cents.
[1:11:19] » Sir, can I get your name, please?
>> Your name.
[1:11:22] » Your name.
>> Oh, sorry, Rich.
[1:11:25] » Thank you.
[1:11:28] » Um, my name is Nik and I just wanted to
add a couple things. Um why we weren't
[1:11:34] [clears throat] aware of this project
until started and that caused some
[1:11:39] feelings and distress.
Um [clears throat]
[1:11:44] we're at where we're at right now. Um we
are having on our driveway and the water
[1:11:51] is running into our grass and John will
talk a little more about that here in
[1:11:56] just a minute. um we're not
[clears throat] always home when the
[1:12:01] students are coming and going. So I
asked my daughter-in-law today um she
[1:12:06] observed as she's in her heart and she's
expressing the same concern as Amanda
[1:12:12] has been seeing in that it is extremely
difficult to see students coming from
[1:12:17] the school. It's extremely difficult to
see cars coming um with the cars parked
[1:12:23] on the side of the road right there. And
um they had a back to school night
[1:12:28] tonight and I was coming from
[clears throat] from the east and we are
[1:12:34] at the first house right next to the
school and [clears throat]
[1:12:38] somebody pulled out in front of me at
stop sign. Um can't think of the street
[1:12:43] name but it's on the the most eastern
part. There's just so much going on with
[1:12:50] cars parked and people moving and
bicycles and um we've seen an increase
[1:12:56] in speed and what scooters bikes are
going down there when I'm backing up you
[1:13:02] know the day you go to work there was
one coming
[1:13:06] scooter coming rapidly and I mean I had
plenty of time to get out but I think
[1:13:11] sometimes what if he wasn't further I
mean I just don't know I've had kids in
[1:13:15] the
stand behind my vehicle when I'm trying
[1:13:18] to back up. I've had kids try to race me
um as I'm trying to back out. So, it is
[1:13:26] a safety
um not being able to see. Um Ashlin
[1:13:32] specifically mentioned that she was
having a hard time seeing as she's
[1:13:36] coming out of the driveway anything
going oops a telephone pole there and um
[1:13:42] some things like that. And I wish our
class card would stop traffic so I can
[1:13:47] back out when we have to go to work.
>> Yeah. Do you mind if I ask questions as
[1:13:53] we go along? Thank you for offering
that. Um I'm you mentioned back to
[1:13:58] school night and then we've also talked
about pickup and drop off. Are you
[1:14:02] advocating for no parking on that road
whatsoever to eliminate those problems
[1:14:07] or are you saying no pickup and drop
off? So, um, until I talked to Ashlin, I
[1:14:14] » Who's Ashel?
>> My daughter.
[1:14:16] » Okay. Okay.
>> I have grandkid
[1:14:19] and she parks in my driveway for
[1:14:25] so I asked for her experience and before
then I was like, I haven't experienced
[1:14:30] this problem. But to hear her say what
she experiences every day um for the
[1:14:35] last several years um I feel there is a
need for parking where there no parking
[1:14:43] » no parking at all along the street.
>> No parking during school hours
[1:14:46] especially
>> during pickup and drop off or all the
[1:14:50] time during school hours.
>> Okay.
[1:14:54] They're sort of problems during school
hours. You see some congestion with
[1:14:59] soccer games and baseball games and
stuff. Um it's it's just a narrow road
[1:15:04] and since we've lived there they've
widened it twice and it just seems to
[1:15:09] this wide sidewalk which is nice has
impacted some of the traffic coming and
[1:15:16] going in. the other day. I was astounded
at how far back the traffic was backed
[1:15:22] up and from the stop sign into our
house. I
[1:15:26] » So, so let me ask about that. Does is it
the compounding effects of
[1:15:34] parking
on that road or is it the traffic that's
[1:15:38] backed up?
>> It's two separate issues. The the
[1:15:41] traffic and see I'm not there most of
the day. I leave for work at 20 after 8.
[1:15:47] Sometimes with staff meaning I have to
leave at 7:30. Um and I'm not leaving
[1:15:52] till 7 night. So I'm not seeing all the
traffic congestion that others are
[1:15:56] seeing. But the other day I did I looked
out my window. What the heck was going
[1:16:00] on out there and opened the door and
there were cars back uh um past my house
[1:16:07] trying to get through the stop sign on
8. And my understanding is some of that
[1:16:13] I mean it's always been there a little
bit but it's worse this year and I
[1:16:17] believe it's because parents are just
trying to get their kids to the new
[1:16:20] middle school and there's some extra
circumstances there's no busing um so
[1:16:26] parents are moving at that time of day
and it seems to be going stretching
[1:16:31] further into the day and then when the
kids are using the sidewalks I have
[1:16:35] observed this on a few days I'm home
they're um
[1:16:39] not as actually because we're only 3
days into school 4 days.
[1:16:42] » Okay. But
>> so I I just want to be clear that
[1:16:46] » parking or no parking during pickup and
drop off is a different issue than cars
[1:16:51] backing up in the lane of traffic.
>> Well,
[1:16:54] » on 2600 South Tra
and Rick might be addressing this
[1:16:59] experience.
>> She's leaving she's leaving during those
[1:17:04] hours of pick up and drop off. So is it
is it fair to summarize? So that the the
[1:17:09] pickup and drop off issue and rightfully
rightfully so is well stated. It's a
[1:17:14] it's a what can I see on the sidewalk
>> while parked or parked on the road. Is
[1:17:20] that correct?
>> That's the challenge is
[1:17:23] » um to be to be able to back out of our
driveway. You've got cars parked all
[1:17:28] along there. get happening straight
before I [clears throat] can even see
[1:17:32] » and you know it's just not a good
situation with my with my kids that are
[1:17:36] starting to drive online
mentioned it before but coming into our
[1:17:42] driveway if you've got cars there then
you can't see kids that might be
[1:17:47] » yeah it's a sight issue it's a sight
safety issue it's
[1:17:51] » we get that there's I think be Okay.
[1:17:57] School.
>> Okay. No, there there is traffic there
[1:18:00] when there's gangs at the park and thing
that we work through, you know, we
[1:18:04] figure it out.
>> Okay. That helps me very much.
[1:18:09] » When my kids,
[1:18:13] there was a specific pattern uh where
those kids should be going. And the plan
[1:18:18] last I heard was they cross the street
with a crossing guard and then they go
[1:18:23] to pickup at Elorn Park and that is not
happening much of this.
[1:18:29] » Okay, we can uh we can talk about
Principal King is at back to school
[1:18:34] night as you know but that's a followup
for us as well. I want to make sure I'm
[1:18:38] making a list of uh things to follow up
on. Not necessarily salt tonight, but
[1:18:43] the sumps to absorb
as Randy mentioned to to absorb dry
[1:18:50] water.
Okay,
[1:18:54] sir. Jim Wilkins losing my voice a
little bit
[1:19:00] first
school. Um, I am there at between
[1:19:06] sometimes 12:30 or 2:30, 2:30. So, I see
it just about every [clears throat] day
[1:19:10] that I go leaving somewhere else.
Um,
[1:19:15] and the kids, they trickle out, then it
gets real heavy, then they, you know,
[1:19:22] blow trickle again. And it happens
pretty I would I would say a little bit
[1:19:25] longer than seven minutes but I don't I
don't know why I have the number time
[1:19:29] just seemed like maybe bit long but 710
you know it's the same thing. Um there
[1:19:36] are kids walking a lot of kids walking a
lot of kids riding bikes and they're
[1:19:41] staying on the on the sidewalk going
three four times as fast as the kids
[1:19:46] that are walking and that is a safety
issue there.
[1:19:51] Yeah, the kids the kids on scooters and
bikes should be walking along that
[1:19:56] stretch. They should not be riding their
scooters, electric scooters, their
[1:20:02] ebikes, and everything else that we
they're going fast. I don't know if you
[1:20:06] noticed that, but they they are moving
it two times this week, but that's the
[1:20:12] way it always has been. Um,
[1:20:18] as [clears throat] far as getting
notified about this project, first thing
[1:20:21] I saw was 6 days before it uh to take
place to get to start on it and and
[1:20:33] we
[1:20:36] go ahead.
>> We we couldn't hear Mrs. Spoken. I I
[1:20:41] don't remember the
I remember meeting one or two I I read
[1:20:47] for God and he went on the
[clears throat] first one of the ones
[1:20:51] that I did remember because it was it
was
[1:20:55] um standing to me was that uh it said
that every we we knocked on every door
[1:21:02] and talked to every resident about this
project and we had not been talked to by
[1:21:08] anybody. that was new to me. So,
[clears throat] um, we didn't we didn't
[1:21:14] get notified of it. We weren't of it.
Um,
[1:21:21] so my driveway is at least almost twice
as wide as as the others. I I didn't
[1:21:28] measure anything, but it's it's the
double double driveway. And uh we had a
[1:21:34] storm this last week. It was incredible
storm. lots of lots of wind and rain. It
[1:21:41] came down really hard in sheets and uh
we saw what a heavy rainstorm would do
[1:21:47] to the drainage and to to water coming
down to that area. Um it puddled. It was
[1:21:53] a big puddle. It did run off pretty
quick. They didn't get out there in time
[1:21:57] either, but in the morning there were
there were weren't big puddles, so it
[1:22:01] did its job and drained off. But there
was an area about three to five three to
[1:22:05] four or five feet out in the yard that
was total muddy. Total muddy squish.
[1:22:12] » It was standing water or it was
squishless.
[1:22:15] » Squishy squish or step bottom.
>> Okay.
[1:22:20] » I didn't I didn't.
[1:22:26] » It was what I thought would happen in
this kind of situation. If that storm
[1:22:31] wouldn't go on for another hour,
who knows what the yard out in the
[1:22:36] middle,
that was a good test. Um the other the
[1:22:41] other ones we had have been very small
and didn't really give us an idea what
[1:22:45] it would look like. But we hope we're
going to get more water. We need it. We
[1:22:50] need it. But uh going into my yard is
it's not a good solution. without some
[1:22:57] kind of a drain. We are open to that
drain. Okay. But I want to have I don't
[1:23:02] want to have somebody just come out to
my door and put something in and say,
[1:23:05] "Oh, by the way, here's sign. We put we
put a drain in." I'd like to have a
[1:23:10] discussion on that.
So I know what's happening. Give input.
[1:23:15] Say I don't think that's enough, you
know, be part of that team. I can't say
[1:23:20] that everybody is. I have heard that
some are engaged in that as well.
[1:23:29] One more thing. Um, this has come up
several times. I know that um when this
[1:23:35] project started um and we were talking
to um Justin and um he he made a comment
[1:23:43] he thought the city was plowing that
side about him. As residents we have
[1:23:47] always that sidewalk and now with it
much wider we want to know whose
[1:23:53] responsibility it is to that sidewalk.
Um we
[1:24:00] often aren't told as we've already said
to file a sidewalk and it's much larger.
[1:24:06] Um there was some talk that the city may
be responsible to do that now in the
[1:24:10] future as well as the school district
but we just need a clear definition of
[1:24:14] who's who is going to be responsible for
that.
[1:24:20] » Okay. I don't have an answer.
[clears throat] Well, I did talk to
[1:24:23] somebody here in this whole process and
it seems like they had a little piece of
[1:24:27] paper in their hand says these are the
these are the sidewalks that the city's
[1:24:32] taking care of right now. And if I
remember correctly, it was this the
[1:24:36] sidewalks along Highway where nobody
lives. There's no cars and they they
[1:24:42] take care of that. Um
the the school has has for years taken
[1:24:49] care of if they get up if I get up early
I If they get up earlier, they not all
[1:24:55] of it quite a bit. It's much smaller
then than it is now. So, I don't know
[1:25:01] what they let anything. Um,
do you have any input on that, Justin?
[1:25:07] We just need to talk to the principal.
>> Yeah, we'll need to talk to the
[1:25:11] principal. It's a great question that we
need definitely need to figure out and
[1:25:14] iron out. Um, when I was out there
speaking with the Wilkins, I just
[1:25:17] couldn't remember. We do have a map.
It's It is online, right? posted online.
[1:25:21] Our sidewalk map
>> online
[1:25:23] » I believe so in our like snow
information page. Typically we do clear
[1:25:30] quite a bit of sidewalks. It is pretty
taxing on staff, but we do clear those
[1:25:35] sidewalks. We have a priority just to
give you an idea. You obviously we start
[1:25:40] with the priority streets, the big ones,
the ones that are heavily trafficked and
[1:25:43] then we move into neighborhoods and then
we move into culde-sacs and our fourth
[1:25:47] priority is sidewalks that we do get to.
So oftent times it does take us a while
[1:25:51] to get to them, especially on big
storms. But um we're happy to have that
[1:25:55] discussion with the with the school
district and with you all to figure out
[1:25:59] and and certainly public works because
uh it's it it's a big deal and we put a
[1:26:06] lot of time and uh a lot of effort into
cleaning those sidewalks and it's
[1:26:10] getting bigger and bigger every year
that people expect and want those
[1:26:15] sidewalks to clean. So once you've done
it once, it's hard to quit. And so
[1:26:19] that's what we're faced with now is just
continuing that and um you know keeping
[1:26:24] control of it but also making sure you
guys understand what that means and what
[1:26:28] that takes for staff to do.
[1:26:33] We we've never taken the pros we're
going to wait for them. There's some
[1:26:38] days we just couldn't get out. They
they've done it. It's not 50/50. It's
[1:26:44] probably
6040.
[1:26:49] Um, I want to talk to the the gentleman
who does that though. He's got a 4Runner
[1:26:53] and a fourwheeler and a blade. And um,
quite often he's he's pushed the snow
[1:27:00] off into the grass and hoping, you know,
pushed the grass back to I've never got
[1:27:05] over there and got mad at anybody. But
I might want to talk to them and say,
[1:27:11] "Please don't do that.
[1:27:17] We just want to be a part of what's
happening on our property moving
[1:27:21] forward. We just want to be a part.
[1:27:27] So I just want one other thing on the
snow. I go to work sometimes where I
[1:27:32] punch it in at 4:35 a.m. I'm not going
to get out there before before that time
[1:27:37] and do any snow work. So that when I
come home at about 12 or 1:00
[1:27:43] melted so I don't have to do it. There
was some there still at that time I
[1:27:47] remember getting still blown out. Um
that's well beyond the time the kids
[1:27:53] were going to eat. So doesn't do a whole
lot of good for that.
[1:27:57] Um,
this might be a little controversial,
[1:28:01] but I'm going to say it. [snorts] And
and I I don't speak for anybody
[1:28:08] down the road heard that there are
comments about this. And I I understand
[1:28:12] that Amanda Arnell Senate 5H do I know
what was in that if she addressed this
[1:28:18] at all, but
[1:28:22] we uh Vicki and I and sure who else we
believe that this solution took away
[1:28:29] from the problem.
Um, we had we had a drain to the the
[1:28:35] sidewalk into the burl was there for 35
years and that was taken away from us.
[1:28:42] Liability was was in the street and on
the sideline for all those years. There
[1:28:48] have been several occasions where kids
have slipped and fallen and gotten hurt
[1:28:55] and it wasn't with us. has another
another family and the parents
[1:29:01] threatened to sue. So that's not that's
not beyond the reason of happening now.
[1:29:08] But the slippery part is also going to
be an army down where the liability is
[1:29:15] of course and we're happy about that. We
would [clears throat] love to see the
[1:29:20] city take that. You're not going to I
know asked you but it is there and
[1:29:25] [clears throat] we're aware of it and uh
you stay aware of this problem.
[1:29:33] We think that we've
been something has been taken away from
[1:29:37] us and the city has made no effort or
desire or even said that they're not
[1:29:42] going to give that back to us which is
the slope to the sidewalk and to the
[1:29:52] that's what we feel that we need to be
made whole through this project. We the
[1:29:57] city has stated that
I think that's all.
[1:30:03] Okay. Thank you. Thank you for sharing.
Um council, this is a this is a spot
[1:30:08] where I feel like I need to work on my
relationship with you.
[1:30:13] Um,
I believe you, it was reported to me
[1:30:18] that I got a copy of what was an email
to you where I was quoted as saying that
[1:30:25] on a visit to this neighborhood. I
promised that if there were any negative
[1:30:30] impacts to the residents property after
the project that they would be made
[1:30:36] right by the city
and I think we referenced that tonight.
[1:30:41] um as is that statement oversteps my
authority.
[1:30:45] Uh that authority belongs to the council
and I chose my words carefully that
[1:30:51] night during the visit to avoid claiming
authority that is not mine.
[1:30:56] And the correct reference which I wrote
down as soon as I left the meeting so
[1:31:02] that I would be sure to have it right is
that
[1:31:07] I promised that if there were
unreasonable
[1:31:11] that's the new word that's the qualifier
negative impacts to the resident's
[1:31:16] property after the project they would be
made right by the city by the city with
[1:31:23] appropriate mitigation.
So, you know, I'm a me a member of
[1:31:29] council. I'm a non- voting member. I'm h
I I'm I'm I'm happy to be part of this
[1:31:34] conversation
uh in the discussion, but I want you to
[1:31:37] know that I think it's important to
clear that up that I did not step in
[1:31:42] front of your authority
and I did not make promises that you all
[1:31:47] have to I did not write a check that you
all have to sign
[1:31:51] because of those qualifiers.
With that, I'll turn it to you.
[1:32:02] » Um, I feel like uh the information has
been good. The discussion like there's
[1:32:07] been a lot before this meeting as well.
Um, I don't know necessarily if we have
[1:32:14] objectives with tonight's meeting been
kind of a catchup. Um, but I think there
[1:32:19] are some step marching orders that you
know that we've got. So, I don't Is
[1:32:23] there another objective that staff or
the citizens maybe would like out of
[1:32:29] tonight before we
There's [clears throat]
[1:32:33] » I'm just going to say um we're not all
here tonight. Not everybody can be here.
[1:32:39] So, if there's a time when everybody
could get together and talk, I know that
[1:32:44] would um make some of the others who
have a vested interest in this um it
[1:32:52] would come forward and list their
thoughts and concerns that can't happen
[1:32:57] tonight because not everyone
>> and that can happen willy-nilly with the
[1:33:04] council because the Utah Open Public
Meetings Act requires that we do the
[1:33:09] public's business in public and so if we
assemble a quorum this is this is great
[1:33:14] legislation I think you would prefer
that we not get together behind closed
[1:33:18] doors and burn ourselves so so uh just
to finish just to finish so if we as
[1:33:24] these guys know this if we assemble a
quorum of the council so everybody can
[1:33:28] get together let me know so we can get
it properly noticed and get it get it on
[1:33:33] uh uh on the Utah public notice website
and we can get minutes taken
[1:33:41] » [clears throat]
>> everyone
[1:33:44] talking because many years ago there was
that happened
[1:33:50] behind closed doors that shouldn't have
and that was the way to handle the
[1:33:55] situation.
So we wanted to move forward and
[1:34:02] and all be on the same page. I will I
raised my family here.
[1:34:09] I love the hard.
[1:34:17] I have still in here.
[1:34:23] And this has been hard
to not have a voice.
[1:34:29] And because of what happened years ago,
I came to believe that I don't know the
[1:34:35] voice.
I would like to
[1:34:39] change.
[1:34:45] So my intent to answer your question is
I think we have uh some
[1:34:51] what of a punch list. We we need to
think about
[1:34:55] uh no parking during pickup and drop
off. We need to think about uh snow plow
[1:35:01] um renewable removal. We need to think
about the the risk of bicycles and scoot
[1:35:07] and motorized scooters on sidewalks.
That's a problem we have to solve
[1:35:12] throughout the city. So, welcome
uh I'm not being sarcastic. Welcome to
[1:35:18] that conversation. We need to figure out
how to how to keep 25 20 mph electric
[1:35:24] scooters off. I I have I have
pedestrians tell me they walk in the
[1:35:29] street because they don't feel safe on
the sidewalk because of these other
[1:35:33] transportations.
[1:35:36] Um and so
that's that's that's what I've got for a
[1:35:42] bunch of
>> Can I just explain the sump every so
[1:35:44] we're all on the same page? So typically
when we've had this issue that the idea
[1:35:49] of the sump is to infiltrate the water
faster. So typically if there's tighter
[1:35:53] soils you'll have a puddle for longer.
So, when we've had that happen in areas
[1:35:57] around town where we've conducted
streetside swells and things like that,
[1:36:01] what we'll do is we'll take a back truck
and we'll go to the property. We'll cut
[1:36:05] out a 2x two sizeish
piece of grass. We'll set that to the
[1:36:10] side. We'll take the vac tube and we
will suck down four or five feet maybe
[1:36:15] you know a foot foot and a half in
diameter or so fill that back up with
[1:36:19] pearavevel put four or five inches of
top soil on top of that and put the
[1:36:23] grass back on top of it and that that's
what we have you know considered to be a
[1:36:28] sump and have found success in
eliminating undesirable puddles in the
[1:36:33] past. So that's what I've offered to uh
anybody if we were to have this problem.
[1:36:37] And we we that takes that's very minimal
cost. That's very you know we could do
[1:36:42] all of them probably in an afternoon if
we needed to. Um but it's also on their
[1:36:46] property and if if if people want that I
would appreciate, you know, they just
[1:36:50] they just got to communicate to us, tell
us and and we can make that happen. Um I
[1:36:55] don't know that doesn't need to be a big
city council or deal. We can do that.
[1:37:00] So if someone wants to come to
>> be clear the city can do that.
[1:37:04] » Yeah. Yeah. We'll take the citizens
expense not the citizens all of the
[1:37:09] citizens expense.
>> Correct.
[1:37:14] Question I have some
water table
[1:37:20] being 40 in.
I mean, is that sufficient
[1:37:26] to do something still like a trained
pulling anyway or does that need to be
[1:37:32] somehow or connected to the storm drain
or I'm just I looked at that and that's
[1:37:38] my my concern with some is the water
table low enough that actually work.
[1:37:43] » Yeah. So
>> yeah, Tom already talked about soil
[1:37:47] types and
>> Yeah. And then we did install the drain
[1:37:50] and that drain we we excavated probably
three and a half feet. So and we didn't
[1:37:57] run in any water. It's kind of that lomy
soil and it infiltrates rather quickly.
[1:38:02] It's about a half inch per per hour.
>> Okay. So even this this what he's
[1:38:07] describing, you're still going to get
ponding because it's got to make it
[1:38:10] through that first 6 in of the top soil
which is more clay, but then it'll hit
[1:38:15] this and then it'll provide an area
storage and it'll just gradually
[1:38:19] infiltrate out into that only sort of.
So I I don't think that the groundwater
[1:38:23] would be a big issue. And most of these
locations where they they're directed
[1:38:28] into the landscaped area, they're very
far away from the the homes. It's not
[1:38:34] like right next to the home. It's These
things are maybe within 8 to 10 ft of
[1:38:40] where the sidewalk is.
>> Okay. Thanks. Question.
[1:38:45] » Go ahead. [clears throat]
>> What was I going to say?
[1:38:49] Um speak into the mic, please.
>> Trying to turn over two things really
[1:38:54] quick. So,
um, this is outside this scope is just a
[1:39:00] little bit, but some additional law
enforcement presence in the evening on
[1:39:07] 2600 would be greatly appreciated.
There's there's trucks that are going 60
[1:39:13] mph
constant. There's kids on ebikes that
[1:39:18] are riding wheelies, you know, 100 yards
down the road in front of our houses.
[1:39:22] » The motorcycles.
>> Yes.
[1:39:25] Yeah, it's sensitive copy to me.
>> I don't know if everybody look, but I
[1:39:31] drive a bus.
What I did ride a bus? I see ebikes all
[1:39:36] day long. Those things can go 40 miles
and they're bright.
[1:39:42] Um
[1:39:51] » um [clears throat]
we have some dry so you're going to see
[1:39:54] the table not
but we did a couple years ago and
[1:40:01] there's a lot of water so um I I don't
know what it is right now but I would
[1:40:09] appreciate anything to help get the
water you a drain or anything like that,
[1:40:14] but I do know where we just put down the
water table and we done the sewer line.
[1:40:21] They hit water and dirt. So,
>> okay. Um for let's just just for fun the
[1:40:28] 40 in if that's the right number and Tom
we've had we've had holes in that area
[1:40:34] with the pipes and stuff that are in
there. Um, a big storm in Cash Valley is
[1:40:41] one inch of precipitation.
So, if we talk about a 40 in available
[1:40:47] space, we have to worry about area
calculations as well. But if if half of
[1:40:52] the of the gravel
it consume if the gravel consumes half
[1:40:57] of that 40 in available volume, so base
is 20 in, we get 18 in.
[1:41:05] I'm doing math in public. Don't hold me
to this. We get 18 inches of
[1:41:09] precipitation a year in Castell.
So, I'm not I'm not saying that it
[1:41:15] doesn't get done without engineering and
without the appropriate without the
[1:41:18] appropriate measures, but I'm just
putting the putting the numbers in. But
[1:41:24] I think we have a shot and we'll rely on
the engineers to make it make it. So,
[1:41:30] » you want the real numbers. The
[laughter] real numbers of what the 80
[1:41:36] percentile storm is 6 in in the valley
floor. So 80% of the storms are6 in of
[1:41:43] rain or less and we give those
periodically. So even if we just give a
[1:41:48] little bit it's going to take care of
80% of the storm. So if we want to go
[1:41:52] the whole 100year storm which is three
and a half inches, we can calculate
[1:41:57] easily how much.
>> So you're going to criticize me for
[1:41:59] rounding up to one inch? No, no. I just
>> always woring.
[1:42:03] » Accuracy for sure. [laughter]
[1:42:08] Thanks.
If you want to go down a rabbit hole
[1:42:11] sometime, look at permeable concrete.
They have some amazing ability. There
[1:42:18] are some amazing There are some products
out there with the amazing ability to
[1:42:23] not divert. It's expensive. not divert
water into an area where it can be
[1:42:29] percolated, but you actually percolate
it right through concrete. Now, that
[1:42:32] only works if you also tear up the
surface or tear up the the strata that's
[1:42:37] underneath permeable concrete. Can't you
can't just absorb concrete can't work
[1:42:42] like a sponge. So, we but they can make
concrete that will pass water down to a
[1:42:48] sum below the concrete instead of
[1:42:55] » Yeah, you like it. That's why he has
sump pump.
[1:42:58] » Sump is a different word there. Go
ahead, please.
[1:43:01] » I remember. [clears throat] I think this
is in Amanda's information. She sent it
[1:43:06] as well. I thought Reion too, but uh we
would like this issue of where the water
[1:43:12] goes and how it works when it's raining
and the winter time when it freezes have
[1:43:19] be an open discussion that we we know
what it's going to look like. So we need
[1:43:26] we need we're asking to see a summer and
a winter how the how the whole thing
[1:43:31] works. Maybe water draining in and then
the ground whether it's ice or snow or
[1:43:38] or rain water.
So we're asking that this discussion be
[1:43:42] open. There may be some issues during
the winter that we haven't thought of
[1:43:46] need to be addressed.
>> That's right. I think that's fair. Yeah,
[1:43:49] we we understand that. Um, as a guy that
uh has a swell at the bottom of his
[1:43:54] driveway like you do,
um, I'm going to ask you this question
[1:44:00] and I think I know the answer. Do you
regularly clear the smell from your
[1:44:05] driveway?
[1:44:08] » Yes. But you know what? For the last two
years, it's only been one, [laughter]
[1:44:11] right? But when it's
>> my experience with a sump at the bottom
[1:44:17] of my driveway at my house, that's my
driveway draining out. Not a sump,
[1:44:21] excuse me, a swell.
>> It has It can't get up onto the road.
[1:44:27] Same problem you guys have.
it. I move a lot of water off my
[1:44:33] driveway by keeping up with snow removal
on my driveway to get that snow out into
[1:44:40] the grassy areas on the side of the
driveway instead of letting it melt on
[1:44:44] the driveway and run running down into
that.
[1:44:46] » We we try to keep on top of it because
it always happens.
[1:44:49] » That's if it's if it's a real warm
morning after the snow, it's it's always
[1:44:53] melt.
>> You probably do better than I do. That's
[1:44:56] good practice.
Then we'll take off this.
[1:45:00] » Okay. Any anything council?
If you can stick around to hear what the
[1:45:05] council has
council has been saying.
[1:45:10] » Anything to add? This wasn't brought up,
but one thing I thought on this uh
[1:45:15] talking, you know, the residents of Mary
want to be part of these conversations
[1:45:18] that we want them to be as well. See?
Um, but the idea and concept of
[1:45:24] suggesting alternative landscaping
solutions that might also help like I
[1:45:28] don't know if so like the last house
there's just grab sidewalk and fence.
[1:45:34] Um, I think if residents
want to I don't know some some advice
[1:45:40] maybe engineering advice of what
alternative landscaping they may want
[1:45:43] that is even better brass or just
adisement on what they might want to do.
[1:45:48] It's good.
It's good thought.
[1:45:53] » Yeah,
Nathan,
[1:45:56] the the grass comes down and goes up to
the sidewalk. Not a lot, but it it is
[1:46:01] enough. So, the the place where draining
is about two or three feet away from the
[1:46:07] side in every case.
But I'll tell you, after being married
[1:46:12] to this guy for 40 years, I might
suggest because
[1:46:19] [clears throat] you notice the new trees
I finally got
[1:46:22] here.
[1:46:26] » Glad you guys worked that out.
[1:46:34] » The correct term is you're escaping with
an X, not a zero.
[1:46:40] No landscaping,
>> nothing
[1:46:43] nothing landscaping.
>> Okay, we'll conclude this item. Thank
[1:46:47] you for coming and sharing with us
tonight. We appreciate it. We we have
[1:46:50] things to look on to think about.
>> Thanks for that.
[1:46:53] » Yeah.
Uh move right on council or Okay, let's
[1:46:58] do it. This is uh another reading on the
solicitation
[1:47:06] replacement for solicitation. Thanks for
being here tonight. Thanks for your work
[1:47:10] on this.
[1:47:13] » I appreciate the brief moment to present
to the council again. Um
[1:47:20] I believe uh the solicitation code was
read at another city council meeting. I
[1:47:25] was um absent. Um but um during that
meantime, staff has made um some minor
[1:47:33] revisions
and also our city attorney has reviewed
[1:47:38] it and didn't have any comments really
and all the background said
[1:47:44] perfect.
We have the draft before you
[1:47:49] after review from the attorney. So,
so in teams, I mean, you've probably
[1:47:56] already seen there's the old one that
you had uh before and then the new one
[1:48:00] that should have the red highlighted
adjustments removing some things that
[1:48:05] were suggested by
[1:48:14] church council. May I make a motion to
approve
[1:48:19] ordinance
substituting this station? Thank you,
[1:48:24] Nathan. I have a motion to Nathan, a
second from Nick to approve this
[1:48:28] ordinance as presented with the red
dots.
[1:48:33] Discussion, please.
Yeah, I have a couple items to
[1:48:39] thank.
So in uh 2.2 2.1.
[1:48:49] » Oh, just kidding. That's normal. Sorry.
Five. Um 5.08.05.
[1:48:56] So point
[1:49:02] um I understand the language there says
uh basically describe what you're
[1:49:07] getting for right when they apply for
the license or certificate to
[1:49:15] um I understand it says uh including but
not limited to. I'm just wondering um
[1:49:20] how staff feels about it being so
definitive.
[1:49:24] uh was anything on there when I read it,
including the exam has to be on there no
[1:49:28] matter what. And so I didn't know if we
were like we just say like you just have
[1:49:34] to fill out a form so that that form can
change over time if we need fewer or
[1:49:38] more things. Anyway, just thought I'd
bring that up so that a little less
[1:49:43] prescriptive. Maybe we [clears throat]
would just maybe considering
[1:49:48] everything out in the bullets. um just
kind of saying there will be a form we
[1:49:53] fill it out. So it's you guys that have
to do that make the forms. So just
[1:49:58] something to consider there. Um I'll
just jump to the next one. You guys want
[1:50:01] to
[1:50:05] » Sure.
>> Levi, you have to you you help people
[1:50:08] fill out the form, right?
>> Yeah. Uh sometimes it's helpful to have
[1:50:13] it in code.
>> Okay.
[1:50:14] » I'll just say that. Um,
and occasionally there's something in
[1:50:20] there that it's like, do we really need
that? But
[1:50:25] it hasn't been it hasn't really been a
huge issue on in other for other forms
[1:50:29] that we've done that I that I've
observed. So
[1:50:35] » yeah, I kind of further on
[1:50:40] I mean with my role this will have
people that questions about wanting to
[1:50:47] want to serve and it's easier to point
towards code that we're trying to be no
[1:50:52] about your status and certain things but
you're soliciting within nibly city you
[1:50:57] want to encourage local businesses or or
you
[1:51:02] general economics in general, but we
want to ensure the safety of our
[1:51:07] citizens. And so we're pointing to some
of the things that that uh we feel are
[1:51:11] necessary to that
voice. We have people walking on the
[1:51:17] prison property of our residents that we
represent. I don't I'm not grinned about
[1:51:23] being seen. They walk on public
property, that's another story, but
[1:51:28] walking on private property and knocking
on doors. So,
[1:51:33] » uh, that's great. Thank you. Um,
so with E, can you just give me an idea
[1:51:38] of what marketing information we would?
Um, generally, um, it just helps Levi
[1:51:45] and Amy who are the main, um, reviewers,
um, of these applications. Um if they do
[1:51:52] have marketing information such as
pamphlets, flyers that they will be
[1:51:56] handing out, we want to ensure that the
student implies whether you know we
[1:52:01] haven't had anything but you want to
make sure people are handing out things
[1:52:04] that are
[1:52:08] » uh appropriate while also not limiting
care to not limit those personalities
[1:52:14] speech.
>> I I think I think it also helps just
[1:52:18] with investigating the business. I think
we're trying we're trying to make sure
[1:52:22] that it's a legitimate business and it
just just helps with that research.
[1:52:30] » In there are some companies that uh go
around soliciting textbooks. They'll
[1:52:37] have exchange students come in and some
cities choose to uh take a picture with
[1:52:44] that solicitor in front of the city hall
and say this person's approved. Please
[1:52:48] listen to their theme. you know, they
are approved by so and so city or town.
[1:52:53] And we've had people approach us at
Negro City asking if we'll do that and
[1:52:56] we decline. Not because we don't want
them to to solicit even though they
[1:53:01] might have a license with us, but we
don't want to um give an inappropriate
[1:53:06] perception that we are endorsing this
product.
[1:53:19] I have
>> Oh, continue.
[1:53:22] Um all right so 5 point well 120
duties of solicitors.
[1:53:34] I think this is just minor but in uh
item D. We're missing a word. I think
[1:53:40] we're missing a verb. Yeah. Think that
word might be ask
[1:53:45] or requested or something to let I had
asked. I had asked as well. So, so let's
[1:53:50] uh let's make that uh give you a chance
to read it. Any solicitor who is at any
[1:53:56] time by any occupant of a resident or
shall leave immediately.
[1:54:01] » It might better read us your version.
>> I request
[1:54:06] » any solicitor
>> any solicitor who is at any time
[1:54:12] asked by occupant of a residence or
dwelling to leave shall immediately and
[1:54:17] peacefully.
I'm going to ask cons for that. Amen.
[1:54:25] Any objection?
[1:54:30] » Um, and I would propose we really highly
consider how needed H is.
[1:54:40] Um,
[1:54:44] I know the attorney looked at it, but I
think there's some some risk there that
[1:54:49] is
Could you read it to us?
[1:54:52] » Yeah, it says the solicitor shall not
use obscene language or gestures
[1:54:58] um without context, right? That sounds
like we're trying to speech things like
[1:55:03] that. I get what we're trying to do with
that, but I I'd recommend we just
[1:55:09] [clears throat] I don't know.
It's a motion. That's an option.
[1:55:13] Have a motion to amend. I'll state it
removing H. Do we have a second?
[1:55:21] Okay, let's talk about the motion. Uh,
that was a notion from a motion.
[1:55:26] There was a motion from Nathan, second
from a motion from me. [laughter]
[1:55:34] Although adult can don't say behaviorist
they should tell people they can do
[1:55:43] we can't we cannot tell people to not
swear at us in public. We might be able
[1:55:49] to say they can't swear at people in
private
[1:55:59] makes sense. I think
>> you read a lot of the feedback from the
[1:56:03] attorney. You read a lot about make sure
we're not sorry that whether it's
[1:56:09] applied or directly.
>> Okay, we like to vote on the amendment.
[1:56:15] Any objection voting on the amendment?
Seeing none. Those in favor of the
[1:56:18] amendment by removing the please say I
post. Okay. Amendment is carried.
[1:56:26] » All right. Final one. Um, this one's
more general. We have quite a few
[1:56:31] references to
the identification badge.
[1:56:36] Um, and the reference is often
capitalized and kind of feels like
[1:56:41] there's a definition somewhere. And I
think this might be a little bit of
[1:56:44] playable from previousish. Um, it's
mentioned, I mean, if you just search
[1:56:49] for the word badge, you see it's
mentioned three times. Um,
[1:56:55] myself too here. So one is in the
definition of fees I thought I think
[1:57:01] that's the first time it's brought up
[1:57:07] » um in a previous version identification
badge was actually defined so that's why
[1:57:14] in those instances is capitalized and
then per direction council and staff
[1:57:20] that was so it would be appropriate for
those I mean that could be added this
[1:57:27] now if you'd like or in the final
printed copy to me that's not such
[1:57:32] significant change to to make that a
lower case but yeah I think that was
[1:57:39] previously defined in there just removed
to allow flexib
[1:57:48] just all lowercase badges
[1:57:55] accepts
appropriate for I think it's your
[1:57:59] motion. Is that a motion or consent to
make it case badge? Okay. Uh is there an
[1:58:07] objection? Okay. We'll make it so it's
all all mine. Thank you. Good.
[1:58:14] What else? Nick
>> question. Um 58130 on time of day
[1:58:19] restrictions.
Um I I brought that last time. Um I I I
[1:58:27] would it would make sense to me to
either we deate
[1:58:30] summer hours versus
or just restrict the time earlier so
[1:58:36] that it's you know 9:00 [clears throat]
in January February that's dark dark
[1:58:42] right um in school and all that kind of
stuff. So either to me I would like to
[1:58:46] see us either specify leave it at 9 p.m.
and specify summer hours or just
[1:58:52] restrict it to earlier.
[1:58:58] What's the most give us a proposal?
[1:59:07] » My number was eight.
>> Okay.
[1:59:09] » ATM. So I would I was ready to make our
opinion
[1:59:14] » an attempted [laughter] to
>> but I think maybe can we just do further
[1:59:19] discussion would we?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Instead of making a motion
[1:59:22] either or I think would be amenable in
the summertime
[1:59:28] and then we restrict it during
non-summer or just
[1:59:34] if people have an appetite for that two
weeks
[1:59:36] » or it it we have to make it so
complicated about what are what time of
[1:59:42] the count what time of the year what
months of the year some hours and which
[1:59:47] are winter and it doesn't change all at
once.
[1:59:50] Yeah.
>> So, I mean, if you want to go with uh
[1:59:54] sunrise and sunset, I have a I have a
timer that opens and closes the chicken
[1:59:59] door on the coupe that is actually
sync. It knows sunrise and sunset time.
[2:00:06] We could make the solicitation hours the
same as the chicken doors, 30 minutes
[2:00:12] after sunset.
[laughter]
[2:00:17] [clears throat]
All right. Thank you. Can I make a
[2:00:21] motion to change the 558 51830 to
change the after 7 p.m.? Have a motion
[2:00:31] from Nick, a second from Garrett. Let's
change the stop time to 7 p.m.
[2:00:38] discussion on the motion to amend.
[2:00:45] Any objection to voting on the motion to
amend? Seeing none, those in favor of
[2:00:48] changing the stop time to 7 p.m., please
say I. Any opposed? Thank you, Nick.
[2:00:55] If I might um just share, the most
restrictive I found was 10:30 a.m. to 4
[2:01:02] p.m.
>> Can I make a new [laughter]
[2:01:08] people are working? [laughter]
[2:01:13] Thank you.
Anything else?
[2:01:19] ready to vote.
Okay, I see no objection to voting. So,
[2:01:23] let's call the role, please. We have an
amended motion if you have any questions
[2:01:27] about what the amendments are. I think
we've I think and thank you for Thank
[2:01:32] you. We are on screen. Thank you. Thank
you for bringing those specific
[2:01:36] suggestions to to us. Um Cheryl, if
you'll call the roll, please.
[2:01:42] » 12 vote.
>> In favor?
[2:01:45] » Yeah. in favor
[2:01:49] in favor
[2:01:53] by in favor none opposed. So
>> appreciate your appreciate your work on
[2:01:58] that.
>> Let's talk about a development agreement
[2:02:03] on Hall Road. We discussed this for
first reading before uh the foronents
[2:02:10] are here. Thank you for coming. We'll
give you plenty of opportunity to speak
[2:02:12] to the council. Uh but we'll ask Levi
for an introduction.
[2:02:18] » Yeah. So the uh the council task staff
to ask ask a few questions of the
[2:02:25] attorney in regards to the fee and Lou.
So I'm just going to give an update on
[2:02:29] that. It was the the full response was
shared with the council and there's a
[2:02:33] summary in the in the meeting packet. Uh
but really it it it came came down to
[2:02:39] these two questions. one is that you
know whether there was the the fee and
[2:02:45] loo would be tied to specifically to the
frontage improvements. So in other
[2:02:49] words, do does if the city takes the fee
in LW, do we have to use them
[2:02:53] specifically for that that specific
project? And the the attorney said uh
[2:03:00] that they do need to benefit the
specific subdivision have a relationship
[2:03:03] to the needs created by the subdivision,
but uh they they don't need to be tied
[2:03:08] to that specific project. So it can be
for something different as long as it
[2:03:14] meets those other objectives. And then
um also there's no time limit for
[2:03:20] expending those those funds. There's a
question on you know do we have to spend
[2:03:24] it within a certain amount of time.
[clears throat]
[2:03:26] So that that's pretty much it. Uh I I I
did ask a followup question of does it
[2:03:32] make it any different where it's a
development agreement? Um and he said
[2:03:36] no. So
[2:03:42] » yeah, you guys saw that in the packet.
in the public information and u uh
[2:03:49] we'll give you guys a chance. Um if you
have something you like to say come up
[2:03:53] and say
[2:04:00] not much just thank you for coming. Oh
yeah.
[2:04:03] » Yep. Michael 4150.
Um thank you for considering this
[2:04:10] development agreement. Um if we um
express our thoughts and concerns and I
[2:04:15] think we have patiently
make a decision.
[2:04:19] » Perfect.
>> Thank you. And we
[2:04:22] huge blessing benefit.
[2:04:37] » So just to follow up with Levi. So
things like it doesn't have to be used
[2:04:42] on disadvantage, but if there was a fee
in charge, uh it would need to be used
[2:04:47] something to benefit sub.
So could that be something like if we
[2:04:51] were chipping ceiling the road that fund
what types of things would that be used
[2:04:57] to?
>> I mean, we didn't we didn't get into a
[2:05:00] specific discussion with the attorney,
but he it did say it needs to benefit
[2:05:05] this, but not solely benefit this. So it
can go beyond the benefit can go beyond
[2:05:11] this this specific subdivision.
[2:05:21] » I I'm maybe I don't know
>> that's how I
[2:05:26] » and I'm
we have a safety problem
[2:05:32] on North.
a difficult resection to get on to 165
[2:05:38] because of limited sight distance.
I know our master transportation plan
[2:05:43] we're working on with the impact is
we'll have at least one comment
[2:05:49] about trying to fix that. Uh but there's
limited and it and it's even a bigger
[2:05:54] problem trying to go south. It's it's
not squared up. There's the the
[2:06:01] topography makes it hard. So,
I have no doubt that the city needs to
[2:06:07] work on that one of these days. And
certainly the subdivision would not be
[2:06:11] the sole benefactor
of that, but I think the new law would
[2:06:16] be a benefactor of a project like that.
When will that happen? I don't have a I
[2:06:23] don't have a time schedule that
>> we also don't have a time limitation on
[2:06:27] when we need to use script. So,
[2:06:44] You can go first. I was going to say AR
kind of kicked that as I read that
[2:06:50] attorneys know we're had to benefit the
subdivision and we all agreed last time
[2:06:56] that there's probably never going to be
her guard sidewalk on Hall of Road at
[2:07:01] least in our lifetime. Uh didn't even
make sense but anyway some of that and
[2:07:07] so appreciate that.
[2:07:14] » Okay.
There we go.
[2:07:15] » You know, I was I was here last time to
get into the the bulk of the beginning
[2:07:20] of this conversation. So, I'm coming to
this meeting on that, but my as I looked
[2:07:26] at it and read what I could and to the
applicant,
[2:07:31] I just um where I sit today from my
perspective, I just wonder if it's a
[2:07:36] good idea if we extract this fee
um
[2:07:42] from the applicant. I I feel like we're
almost um
[2:07:46] we have a develop you know obviously
you're going to you're going to have to
[2:07:50] pay
to to develop anything but it's like
[2:07:54] we're double taxing here almost
and I'm uncomfortable with that
[2:08:00] and we always have an impact fee but I
feel like you know we're impacting feet
[2:08:04] twice
because we're really not going to have a
[2:08:07] sidewalk there and so well I think we
could extract the fee. I think we could
[2:08:12] I think we you go through the legal and
absolutely could and that could benefit
[2:08:16] projects on hollow world in the future
but should we though
[2:08:21] should this applicant you know very
blunt of that because they want to
[2:08:26] develop in a place that's never going to
get signed by so I just wonder if that's
[2:08:31] the right thing to do
[2:08:35] so I don't know what the council's
opinion amount is on that but that's
[2:08:39] from where I sit and I missed the last
conversation
[2:08:41] It just doesn't smell right that this is
a good idea. Citizen have to pay his
[2:08:45] feet.
So maybe I need to be helped on on
[2:08:50] » So here's some of the discussion we had.
I if you guys want me to jump in. Um
[2:08:56] certainly the rest of road will probably
it'll be over my dead body have carbon
[2:09:02] gutter and sidewalk
in part because of the zoning.
[2:09:07] Right. So bar e 2acre zoning
um
[2:09:15] it it can be waved
to not do a sidewalk.
[2:09:21] So you know we've we've had a petition
for annexation on
[2:09:27] 20 acres south of nibly current.
It's up to the council, I think, to wave
[2:09:35] the requirement for urban gutter outside
law in the re zone. That's 2 acres only.
[2:09:42] Um the the the the problem you guys are
dealing with is the code says that's
[2:09:49] only agricultural and relying
that the sidewalk requirement can be
[2:09:55] waved. And the code says, even though
we're working on a development brief,
[2:10:00] code says in R1A,
we shall have sidewalks. And if we don't
[2:10:05] have sidewalks, we shall have the fee
collected sidewalks.
[2:10:10] And so it it sounds like a a burden
on this property compared to the rest of
[2:10:19] road, but in fact it's the R1A
zoning
[2:10:24] that makes this project
possible at all.
[2:10:31] Um,
the other concern that we talked about
[2:10:34] was
[2:10:38] how much exposure do you want to other
developers
[2:10:44] in R1A that's a sidewalk doesn't make
sense here and my project.
[2:10:52] So, it's it's
we we have to
[2:10:59] and I appreciate you as neighbors and I
love it that you're citizens of Midway,
[2:11:02] but we're considering a request from a
developer.
[2:11:08] They they are also citizens, but this is
a requirement of developers in the R1A
[2:11:14] zone and the other zones except RE and
agriculture. It's not a requirement of
[2:11:19] citizens. It's a requirement of the
developer.
[2:11:25] » Does that kind of capture the things we
talked about? I'm not trying to not
[2:11:30] trying to sway this. I'm just trying to
answer your question about what we
[2:11:34] talked about.
>> Yeah.
[2:11:38] » There
we have that journey in because we're
[2:11:42] like, well, do you collect the speed
when you hold this indefinitely? It
[2:11:47] doesn't have to be used for feature
sidewalks which don't believe will ever
[2:11:51] happen on Hall Road. That is why we have
to try to get different
[2:11:57] you know they had for sidewalks
long haul road
[2:12:04] makes sense
[2:12:08] but if it can be used for anything any
project it benefit then maybe I guess
[2:12:16] makes sense as it is in the coding
required
[2:12:19] um [clears throat]
I don't make an exception She is when
[2:12:23] you make only
[2:12:29] Nathan.
>> Yeah, I also just want to keep saying
[2:12:33] there's never going to be PSI on the
road. Don't say that.
[2:12:38] » Never is a very long time in my
lifetime. Never was a very long time.
[2:12:43] And
>> and I will not live forever. Can make
[2:12:46] good on your promise.
[2:12:54] » [laughter]
[2:12:57] » about
um this property
[2:13:02] is two three lots of an existing
sidewalk on Hollow Road,
[2:13:08] right? It's it's not an a known thing.
Um
[2:13:14] and so I think that's why we kind of
thought that you make sense because we
[2:13:18] don't know the future. We think we do
think we'll be dead here. U but I I just
[2:13:26] think that's important. So um
you know there's been projects to try to
[2:13:31] make hall road
[2:13:35] safer but like more
not necessarily putting curve gut and
[2:13:40] sidewalk but other alternatives.
And those are projects that at one point
[2:13:44] were I thought in the budget that we
never did because of county problems or
[2:13:50] things like that. But this is a great
example of why that could be just
[2:13:55] painting some sort of lines that we can
use a lot of people on the road. But in
[2:13:59] the end I think making a safer road for
pedestrians.
[2:14:04] So even
think there are things that also needs
[2:14:09] with this
br
[2:14:17] otherwise we make them put in a lot of
concrete ways in our lifetime.
[2:14:31] » Thank you Nathan Eric.
>> I make a motion. this to approve
[2:14:34] ordinance 261 with the condition that
the applicant
[2:14:47] agreement which includes uh the side
[2:14:53] [laughter] get clarification um is the
language basically what is suggested by
[2:14:59] staff you're proposing
[2:15:06] Okay.
Clarification.
[2:15:14] » I think yes sir. I I I agree a lot with
what you say there. I think it really
[2:15:18] comes down to I mean it's in the code
that's a requirement. I just want I just
[2:15:23] I think you have to be really careful
with um any developer that comes to any
[2:15:28] rate and and reducing the likelihood
that this is a negotiation all time. I
[2:15:34] just don't know if that's great for the
city. So just think sense
[2:15:42] and and to be clear
the council has the authority to not
[2:15:47] follow the code. That's why we're having
this discussion.
[2:15:51] So a middle ball question then who
determines how much the output have to
[2:15:56] pay then
>> probably
[2:15:59] that as an engineer or you you or a
design company you
[2:16:05] » so we can do it a number of ways and I
know Michael and I can come to a good
[2:16:10] resolution. We can go to get three bids.
I have cost estimates from other
[2:16:14] developments that I can compare a single
bid to just see if it is. I I know we
[2:16:20] can work it out and have something
that's reasonable.
[2:16:26] » The council doesn't need to get
involved.
[2:16:30] » I was just curious process that would be
involved in that.
[2:16:34] That that doesn't seem fair.
I hear every what everyone is saying. I
[2:16:39] I hear that I'm in a memory of my
thoughts on this and I I'm from the
[2:16:45] council's perspective.
I still I think it's a good example to
[2:16:50] have an exception. I I really do. I just
think that
[2:16:57] it's a burden that we should have to
bear in this one parcel of land.
[2:17:03] the best nation.
[2:17:09] Okay. Any other comments, thoughts,
any opposition to voting? Before we
[2:17:14] vote, thank you for working through this
with us. You guys been patient and
[2:17:19] gracious. Thank you for that. Uh since I
did not see an objection to voting,
[2:17:25] let's proceed with it. And Cheryl, we
call the roll. Council
[2:17:29] » members object.
[2:17:33] Thank you.
[2:17:40] » In favor
in favor.
[2:17:45] » Thank you.
>> Four in favor. One opposed. So the
[2:17:48] development agreement is stopped. Can't
wait to see you guys not build sidewalks
[2:17:54] but build other things.
Thank you.
[2:18:01] Let's go right into ordinance 2613.
[2:18:08] » Oh yeah. Thank you for helping me on
that. So without objection, we'll take
[2:25:55] No, no, no, no. Now we are.
>> Hey,
[2:26:00] if we come back to order, please.
Let's talk about uh permitted science.
[2:26:07] Levi, will you lead us into that,
please?
[2:26:11] » Yes. So, um this was
this review was brought up by a uh a
[2:26:19] bill in the state legislature which
basically prohibits cities from um
[2:26:26] prohibiting political signs and park
strips as long as long as the adjacent
[2:26:32] property owner consents to the political
sign being there. So, but when you know
[2:26:38] as as we often do once we open up the
the book, we kind of start poking holes
[2:26:45] in other things. So, that's kind of what
we did here. There's there's a number of
[2:26:48] other changes with the planning
commission as we reviewed the sign code
[2:26:52] uh that that are being suggested. So
yeah, that that first one obviously is
[2:26:59] mandate from the state legislature that
we basically are going to, you know,
[2:27:04] leave political signs alone in the park
strip unless and and I think in practice
[2:27:09] kind of what what I've said um that I
think makes the most sense at least from
[2:27:15] you know an enforcement standpoint is
probably what's going to happen is
[2:27:19] unless they're adjacent to a city
property, we're probably just not going
[2:27:22] to touch them because we're not going to
go survey residents and say, "Hey, is is
[2:27:27] that allowed?" Unless we get a complaint
from somebody that says, "Hey, there's a
[2:27:31] political sign out front. I didn't let
them put it there." Then at that point,
[2:27:35] we would probably pull the sign. But
anyway, the state legislature passed
[2:27:40] that law, so we've it's in this
amendment.
[2:27:45] Um, let's see here. The
other than that, uh we we did review the
[2:27:54] this uh sign code and there we did
update the definition and and some
[2:28:00] regulations on temporary signage
and
[2:28:05] uh really tried to clarify it a little
bit more. Uh we did have add a time
[2:28:11] frame of in in this amendment of 90 day
up to 90 days. Um or 48 hours after if
[2:28:20] it's if it's advertising event it' be 48
hours after an event. Um so that that
[2:28:26] was added that was clarified. I I can go
into the code for specifically what it
[2:28:31] says but I just wanted to summarize
here. Uh in the in the code right now,
[2:28:37] there's a chart that spells out which
signs need a building permit and which
[2:28:42] signs don't. And most of them do show
building permit. So rather than
[2:28:47] rather than um pointing at, you know,
specific signs and whether they need a
[2:28:52] building permit or not, uh we're we're
just referencing the building code. And
[2:28:57] so if it requires a a building permit or
a building code then then uh we would
[2:29:04] that you know that would be pursued. And
I'll say that that that somewhat relates
[2:29:10] to
uh another change and that is that you
[2:29:15] know currently it requires most signs
require conditional use permit. We don't
[2:29:21] have really a staff administered sign
permit u process. U so if it's a
[2:29:28] permitted sign they can just build it.
Um but if it's if it's a conditional use
[2:29:36] then they have to go to planning
commission for a conditional use permit.
[2:29:39] What this changes is that it's a
any sign listed is a permitted use but
[2:29:46] it requires a signed permit. So it it
that would be administered by staff. So,
[2:29:50] we would we would create an application.
It'd be similar to what we do with
[2:29:55] fences currently or accessory buildings.
It's basically a zoning clearance. And
[2:30:00] then when that's reviewed, then then we
can determine if they would need a
[2:30:04] building permit for that for that sign.
So, uh amending that process. Um
[2:30:12] there there's also a a current setback
of 10 ft or all signs which the planning
[2:30:21] commission felt was quite restrictive
and so it's being amended to 3 ft with
[2:30:26] this ordinance
um for signs.
[2:30:31] There's
I think there's some language in there
[2:30:35] that says that you know it can't
constitute a a sight distance hazard or
[2:30:41] anything like that but you know traffic
hazard but reduction they they just felt
[2:30:47] like 10 ft was pretty unreasonable in a
lot of cases. So sorry go ahead
[2:30:55] » the property line. So not from the
roadway but from the property line. So
[2:30:59] if you think, you know, you've got a a
sidewalk, usually back of sidewalk, um
[2:31:05] one foot behind the back of sidewalk,
another 10 feet. So you're really 11 ft
[2:31:10] from the sidewalk is what the
restriction is. I don't know how many
[2:31:14] signs are compliant with that, but that
is what's written in the code. So
[2:31:20] um the the the Maverick sign that they
just put in that that it that does
[2:31:25] comply with that 10- foot setback. um
just for reference, but
[2:31:33] that's that's being recommended to be
changed.
[2:31:37] And then this last one came from legal
review. It wasn't it wasn't a no one was
[2:31:44] necessarily clamoring for this, but it
it was removing there. There's this
[2:31:49] restriction for electronic message
display signs that they can't be for
[2:31:55] sexually oriented businesses. And the
the attorney just commented that we this
[2:32:02] could be scrutinized for content
neutrality kind of first amendment
[2:32:07] issues where we're we're getting into
the content of the sign, not not the you
[2:32:13] know, not the type of sign or the So
anyway, he he said that there could be
[2:32:19] there could be a path forward if we want
to restrict this, but planning
[2:32:23] commission and staff's recommendation
was just to strike that specific
[2:32:27] provision
[2:32:31] and let's see so that's a summary of the
changes
[2:32:37] um
planning commission staff
[2:32:41] recommendations a little bit different
so planning commission's recommendation
[2:32:44] is to approve the ordinance as as uh
recommended
[2:32:49] staff staff has reviewed this further
actually since the
[2:32:54] um the last or since planning commission
recommended this. And one one uh
[2:33:01] revision that we're requesting be
incorporated is there's currently in in
[2:33:07] the current draft, not not in the
ordinance, but in the current draft,
[2:33:10] there is an exception for um signs in
the park strip for that are temporary
[2:33:18] signage advertising city sponsored, city
approved events.
[2:33:23] Um
and and we're we're s we're recommending
[2:33:29] as staff to strike that provision. So
basically that we would have to Yeah.
[2:33:34] And Justin could speak to that.
>> I'll speak to that. I just feel like
[2:33:37] it's not a great look for us to be not
following our own code. So I've had some
[2:33:41] discussions with Chad about this. Chad's
not happy with this. Frankly, I haven't
[2:33:46] had a lot of discussion with Chad about
it, but I've told him that this
[2:33:49] ordinance is being looked at and that uh
I I would like staff to follow whatever
[2:33:56] the code says and not make special
exceptions for the city and for city
[2:34:00] events. I've I've just felt that over
the years from numerous uh public
[2:34:04] officials and people. So, I just think
it's a good idea. Um
[2:34:09] that's why I made that recommendation.
So does this apply even in parks? So we
[2:34:15] can't advertise city events with signs
even parks just parks
[2:34:23] » only.
[2:34:32] » Well, that's a good question. I didn't
know if that was limited to political
[2:34:35] signs only or any sign. That's a
question.
[2:34:39] Yeah, I
I that's something I still wanted to
[2:34:43] follow up with Mo on. I did go to a
training. Some cities are interpreting
[2:34:49] this code, this new
state code to say we can't regulate any
[2:34:56] of these signs in the park strip because
again back to content neutrality. We we
[2:35:03] can't we can't say okay well this
political sign's allowed but this sign
[2:35:07] that is advertising something here is
not allowed. that the attorney didn't
[2:35:13] um didn't go that far to to say that. I
was going to follow back up with him. I
[2:35:18] haven't had a chance to do that. So, I
can do that if you want to take this to
[2:35:21] second reading. But
I I don't know. I think I think there's
[2:35:28] based on some training I've been to, I
think there's going to be maybe some
[2:35:33] followup in the next legislative session
on that because a lot of cities are
[2:35:37] saying, "Well, we don't we don't like to
get into what is on the sign, whether
[2:35:42] it's a political sign, because it's a
first amendment issue, and
[2:35:46] » we're not going to regulate whether it's
a political sign or someone's business
[2:35:49] or or whatever."
>> Yeah. And with the state,
[2:35:55] » they did. They did.
>> They defined it. But again, they don't
[2:36:01] trump,
I guess, the the First Amendment. So,
[2:36:07] » anyway,
>> they do. [laughter]
[2:36:11] » I don't know.
I guess
[2:36:14] » it shall be tested. That's what some
That's what some cities I like in in the
[2:36:20] trainings I've been to, that's what
they've said. I don't I'm not saying
[2:36:22] that we need to go in that direction,
but that's just something I'm looking
[2:36:27] at.
>> Yeah, the mere state code. Yes.
[2:36:39] » I'll maybe just add on I had some
discussion. I those those signs are
[2:36:42] fairly effective. So my my goal is not
to remove the signs, but just to put us
[2:36:46] on the same playing field and not be out
taking out other people's signs when our
[2:36:51] signs are out in the park.
>> Yeah. I I think the Utah League has
[2:36:58] published data that says
unfortunately in my opinion the most
[2:37:04] effective campaign method is science
that people look at that don't do any
[2:37:11] more research than how many signs they
see
[2:37:15] any more research before they go out
that how many signs they
[2:37:22] unfortunate
So corrup we take all political sides
[2:37:28] out of and people would vote in total
ignorance instead of partial. [laughter]
[2:37:34] » That's sarcastic.
[2:37:39] » Yeah.
So, Levi, the draft in the box is
[2:37:47] applying the same code to city events,
advertising city events or are city I I
[2:37:54] look for, but our city
>> city uh signs advertising city events
[2:38:00] still
uh exempted from park sites. The one the
[2:38:06] one that's in the
>> in teams is is uh
[2:38:13] the planning commission recommendation
which includes that exemption and that
[2:38:18] was staff's recommendation to the
planning commission to be to be clear
[2:38:22] after the meeting and with further
review we I guess we amended it
[2:38:27] » staff's recommendation at the time but
[clears throat] you've you the staff has
[2:38:31] thought about it since then.
>> Yeah. and talked about eliminating the
[2:38:37] exemption for city sites.
>> Yeah.
[2:38:40] » Being regulated.
>> Yes.
[2:38:48] » Oops. Do we guess I'm not remembering
clearly as a city? Do we often place our
[2:38:56] advertisements, our yard signs in the
park strip or they more typically on the
[2:39:01] past, you know, closer past the sidewalk
on the actual parks grass?
[2:39:06] » There's a ton of them in the park strip
and and in and in medians. That would be
[2:39:11] the other thing because public rideway.
So
[2:39:14] » yeah, there's a lot of them.
[2:39:20] » Well, this question about
regulating political science.
[2:39:25] » Yeah.
>> And public property or we strips and
[2:39:29] means or we regulating all science
because neutral content neutrality
[2:39:34] and scripts and we need to figure that
out.
[2:39:38] » Yeah, it's a great question.
>> Yeah.
[2:39:44] » So then
right now
[2:39:48] signs being allowed in the park.
[2:39:53] » [clears throat]
>> Well, it sounds like something
[2:39:54] politicians would vote for. [laughter]
[2:39:59] » And I'm not sure that the legislature
um said anything beyond you can't
[2:40:07] prohibit political signs in the park
strip. And so cities may have other
[2:40:13] restrictions on signs in park strips,
but I I think the legislature
[2:40:19] said you can't prohibit political
yard kind of signs.
[2:40:24] » Yep.
>> I will give you a motion
[2:40:30] [clears throat]
to approve ordinance 2613
[2:40:35] for first reading.
Motion second from Nick to advance this
[2:40:40] to second.
You can talk some more. So, you know,
[2:40:46] do you understand Levi? We've got some
questions to answer
[2:40:50] about uh
whether it's just political science or
[2:40:55] whether it's all science. Yeah.
>> Okay.
[2:41:01] » I'm not sure there's any research for
statue on the history.
[2:41:06] U I mean it's related but depending on
how it come down. um if on advertising
[2:41:14] city events.
So either we keep that exemption on
[2:41:19] prohibition or we don't.
And I'm not sure there's any research to
[2:41:25] do. I mean you go talk to Chad.
>> I know. Yeah.
[2:41:29] » Sorry. You know Chad is out of town. I
had a brief discussion with Curtis about
[2:41:33] it. That's why I mentioned they they say
they're effective and they we did he
[2:41:38] took a look at uh
the
[2:41:42] I'm trying to remember exactly what this
was. It was the questionnaire for people
[2:41:46] that end up on waiting list
>> for soccer. One of the questions how did
[2:41:51] you know about this or hear about our
program and there was a big chunk of
[2:41:54] them that were said road signs. So again
I I am not against the road signs. I
[2:41:59] just want us to live by the same rules
as everybody else.
[2:42:04] And if that's the case,
then we're not going to prohibit
[2:42:08] political science. We're not we're going
to live by the same rules. The city's
[2:42:12] going to live by the same rules as
everyone else. We wouldn't want to keep
[2:42:16] city science. We need to get we need to
not prohibit anybody science.
[2:42:20] I think it's [clears throat] a bad one
with you. I think people don't I think
[2:42:25] candidates don't understand. I think
window washing companies don't
[2:42:29] understand
that they can't advertise in the park
[2:42:33] strips. And why would they understand
that? Because they see all these other
[2:42:38] sites. They don't notice that they're
all advertising nibbly city events.
[2:42:45] But why wouldn't they think it's okay?
[2:42:54] I understand cuz Cheryl tells of me or
told me many times.
[2:43:00] » So kudos to you, Cheryl. I understand.
[2:43:06] Oh, bird came on.
>> I remember this day that Levi went out
[2:43:12] and rounded up a bunch of my sign
[laughter]
[2:43:16] and I swear to goodness those signs were
on the front yard side of the sidewalk
[2:43:23] when I planted them and then they mowed
the grass [laughter]
[2:43:30] » and the resident moved it into the
parking and I got busted for it.
[2:43:35] wouldn't do it anymore.
[2:43:39] » When you see your sign
placed properly, we need to put there
[2:43:44] some or someone in your staff, whatever,
but it's there somewhere on the property
[2:43:49] or the owner and then it's share and I
do as many as I possibly could. I would
[2:43:54] apologize if that was the case, but I
always the park share is that that's not
[2:43:59] my land, but I maintain it for the city.
You've been citizens
[2:44:12] like my other part of my life.
>> And there are a lot of people that
[2:44:18] believe the park strip and the sidewalk
are their rent.
[2:44:23] » Yeah.
>> And we've gone through that, right? I
[2:44:26] didn't I didn't park on the sidewalk. I
parked in my driveway,
[2:44:31] you know, in in in this part where the
van diagram intersects.
[2:44:37] That's not a sidewalk. That's my drive.
Whether the ideal science can be there
[2:44:45] is I think it opens Canada.
[2:44:52] question for 20 seconds. [clears throat]
Uh interpreting the state law which I've
[2:44:58] not read.
Uh can we So we're saying here that they
[2:45:03] have to ask permission.
Is that allowable say ask that they
[2:45:10] asked for permission?
>> Yeah, we can. I just know practically.
[2:45:14] Are we going to go knock on people's
door and say is did they did they let
[2:45:18] you put that sign there? No,
>> we can't. We can't condition
[2:45:22] We can.
>> So one option
[2:45:26] something
is you know how polical candidates have
[2:45:31] to like endorse their things. Maybe we
implement it within that just res says
[2:45:37] I'm okay with the sign being here.
>> Sign it.
[2:45:40] » They have to like sign it or put a
message on the sign that says I'm okay
[2:45:43] with the sign being there.
>> That's just a thoughtpie.
[2:45:47] » Yeah. They don't be like super sick. We
say no has to give proof that they're
[2:45:53] okay with being there because we have
residents who
[2:45:59] may not have the courage to like call
the city and
[2:46:07] it forces the candidates to do the work
required to get the permission.
[2:46:15] See if there's a I just want to see
action.
[2:46:29] for people distributing this school.
[2:46:34] » So we can look for an emblem
[2:46:39] » statement of approval from
who would hold that state.
[2:46:46] Oh,
>> I approve of this message. [laughter]
[2:46:58] [laughter]
[2:47:00] [clears throat]
[2:47:05] » Yeah, just curious.
>> We don't have to be stupid.
[2:47:13] The only way I see us being able to
[2:47:18] If state allows it allows it
if the conditionals are there.
[2:47:28] » So that's question from
the week.
[2:47:39] » Greg, it's a property a rights issue.
You want to weigh in on this? It's not a
[2:47:43] public hearing, but I'm
>> okay.
[2:47:50] » I got a 2 by you can lease
[clears throat]
[2:47:55] where you're Okay.
[2:48:01] » He's here every
and we're going to consider a property.
[2:48:06] We're going to consider this as a
property Francis as we speak. uh from
[2:48:10] from failure is definitely uh for sale
real estate. We really do like as leeway
[2:48:18] as we can to put for some for uh to help
our clients. We also will frequently
[2:48:25] have opening. So [clears throat] those
are a temporary sign and we we do like
[2:48:30] leniency on that to be able to market
home. uh thumb cities are not as
[2:48:36] accommodated and they actually have
enforcement that will come and take our
[2:48:40] thumbs. We would love to know where they
end up. They probably in the landfield,
[2:48:46] but um th this is nice to see that it's
being discussed and it is being talked
[2:48:53] about. Um, I I think that discussion of
uh whether or not all signs are allowed
[2:49:01] in departure versus just political is
something that would be valuable to
[2:49:06] discuss. I I think in both a pro and
cons sense that that could come up to uh
[2:49:14] that may come up to
[2:49:17] myself on a on a personal business end.
Oh, I would love to put signs in say I
[2:49:23] can help set the and do you become
do you become a billboard in parts of a
[2:49:31] lot of people?
Thank you very much.
[2:49:34] » Yeah, thank you.
[2:49:39] » I would appreciate if there was a clause
that required
[2:49:42] no for sale realtor science in city
manager's garage.
[2:49:49] you. [laughter]
>> Yeah.
[2:49:54] [clears throat]
[2:49:57] » So, it's good we talk about um the
definition of like we have street
[2:50:04] banner, right? So, for instance, there's
a couple times you'll see like
[2:50:09] signs on fences,
right? Whether they're political or
[2:50:15] realtors or whatever. Uh, as I read
this, those do not require the bank.
[2:50:23] » Yeah, I think that'd be considered a
temporary
[2:50:26] I think that'd be considered a temporary
sign.
[2:50:33] » Well, I think we have a limit of 90
days, but
[2:50:38] yeah,
[2:50:42] while we're while we're changing code.
Yeah,
[2:50:51] » I'm trying to find a picture on my
phone. We wonder about what happens to
[2:50:55] those signs that Levi and Evan picked up
and you did your best. They did their
[2:51:01] best to notify the owner of the sign to
come and get your city office. In my
[2:51:07] shop,
I have a
[2:51:11] small overhead garage door
and
[2:51:16] I put some insulation in that door
because it wasn't part of the original
[2:51:20] construction, but it was just like foam
insulation. And so I took those I took a
[2:51:27] collection of those signs
and reused them to a really good thing
[2:51:33] to line the inside door of my [laughter]
over my overhead door in my shop
[2:51:41] right next to the old tractor
tractor.
[2:51:45] » They would have gone to the landfill
otherwise just just for the record. But
[2:51:49] that's where and and they had adequate
time to pick them up, [laughter] but
[2:51:53] they were in Levi's office for 6 months.
And take those if you don't mind. I'll
[2:51:59] keep them.
>> I'm going to patch it around.
[2:52:05] » Leave the public record now.
Let you take a picture. [laughter]
[2:52:14] I have old dog licensing signs that we
obsed when we change the due date.
[2:52:24] » Justin,
>> you [clears throat] could do that with
[2:52:26] the realtor's garage. Okay.
>> Yeah, I need a new screen. Sorry.
[2:52:33] » Do we have a motion?
>> We have a motion to advance second.
[2:52:36] We've been giving staff
um we've been giving staff direction
[2:52:41] things to answer. Anything else to to
look up and deal with before that?
[2:52:48] Okay. Any opposition to voting on first
motion, first reading? Seeing none,
[2:52:53] those in favor of advancing this second
reading, please say I. Any opposed? 5 Z
[2:52:59] passes. Thank you.
[2:53:06] Okay, let's talk about inactive
applications.
[2:53:10] All right,
so we've had this we've had this issue
[2:53:14] of
land use applications where
[2:53:19] you know in in the subdivision process
we have very prescriptive amount of time
[2:53:25] that our staff has to respond to the
applicant. For example, for preliminary
[2:53:30] plat, it's uh 15 business days and it's
20 business days for final plat.
[2:53:37] Uh what we don't have is an expiration
for the applicant.
[2:53:43] And the reason why we're suggesting this
is if it's been if it's been a long
[2:53:51] time, a a lot of times the our codes
have changed. Uh different circumstances
[2:53:58] have changed. And so we we're
recommending a 180day
[2:54:04] um limit for and and really it's it's a
clarification because state code does
[2:54:10] allow us to expire applications within a
you know a reasonably reasonable time
[2:54:15] but we haven't and we have expired
applications before in the past if
[2:54:19] they've gone on for a year or I mean
just kind of a
[2:54:25] a I'll just say a random amount of time.
We just want to standardize it and say
[2:54:31] 180 days. They can ask for a one-time
extension of 100 180 additional days
[2:54:37] from whoever the approval authority is
for the application.
[2:54:42] U but what this does is is it then it
would any expired application would have
[2:54:48] to resubmit and they would have to they
wouldn't be vested under whatever the
[2:54:52] code was previously. they'd have to
adhere to the
[2:54:57] um what whatever [clears throat] the
code is at the time they they submit
[2:54:59] application.
So pretty simple um ordinance
[2:55:05] and it really there there's other times
that we have other time frames in our
[2:55:11] code of like for example when you get
approval for preliminary plat
[2:55:17] uh you have to within a year submit for
final plat. We have other kind of
[2:55:22] deadlines, but really this is speaking
to applications where
[2:55:28] either staff or it could be the
approval, you know, whoever the approval
[2:55:31] authority, it could be council requests
some an update information that's
[2:55:37] necessary for the application and it
just sits for 180 days or longer.
[2:55:42] Nothing happens at at that point. It
would be expired. Um, and the onus would
[2:55:48] be on the on the applicant to come
forward and say, "Hey, I need I need
[2:55:52] some additional time. Can you grant me
another 180 days?" They could do that
[2:55:56] and and they could be granted that
additional time, but both staff and
[2:56:02] planning commission recommend approval
of this ordinance.
[2:56:07] » Nathan, get a motion to approve
ordinance 2612 first reading. Motion
[2:56:14] from Nick and second from Nick.
Discussion please. Nick question for
[2:56:18] Levi. Does are we defining like does
this apply to all types of land use
[2:56:24] applications or are so Yes.
>> Yes.
[2:56:26] » So I want to paint a picture of an
example, right? Like we just had one
[2:56:29] come through recently where we wanted to
we went through this rigorous process,
[2:56:34] right, to update our code particular
board uh type of zoning. remember and so
[2:56:41] this was an annexation right that
happened I remember this was like in
[2:56:45] discussion two years ago almost right
this are you talking this would apply in
[2:56:48] that example where
>> well in that in that specific example
[2:56:52] the one with cart the cartner that they
submitted a new application anyway they
[2:56:58] had a new
>> that that that old application ended up
[2:57:02] getting
>> denied by the council and they submitted
[2:57:06] a new application they it got denied
because of their request they had a new
[2:57:10] application. So, that one
I I guess it wouldn't apply because
[2:57:17] because the the application was already
there there was a new one.
[2:57:22] » Yeah. I love this directive because just
the kind of
[2:57:28] we're not legislating here
in there, but just the like the idea of
[2:57:34] like, hey, I'm going to apply this time
and I want to sit on it. Well, you guys
[2:57:38] do whatever you do, but I still want to
perceive as though we won't be able
[2:57:43] to stand with you. We even allow that
just like no, you say it all the time.
[2:57:50] Your coach's changing.
>> So, I just feel like it's kind of a
[2:57:55] dangerous game that we navigate like
like that. It's like, oh gosh, now this
[2:58:00] was a year and a half ago. Do don't do
you know, they applied under this
[2:58:04] pretenses a year and a half ago, right?
So, do we want to grant them this versus
[2:58:08] no, the city is going in a totally new
direction now?
[2:58:12] » So, yeah, I like this quite a bit. And I
think the words in the draft talk about
[2:58:20] I'm not sure if they use this word, but
it has to be
[2:58:24] days. Nothing we see from applicants for
days. So if it doesn't mean they have to
[2:58:31] have this all wrapped up with the 180
days because there's a submit
[2:58:35] process submit
but if it's dormant for 180 days then
[2:58:44] one more question. So if let's say it's
dormant that period of time Levi and
[2:58:49] they what kind of a new information
would trigger in your mind a successful
[2:58:57] extension right because again like is a
successful extension a we're still
[2:59:02] thinking about this or do they have to
physically like provide something so
[2:59:05] that you know the city it's it's
fulfilling the spirit of what this is
[2:59:11] because what I want to avoid again is
just saying hey I'm coming back 180 days
[2:59:15] later, we're still thinking about it,
right? I don't want that to be, you
[2:59:19] know, something that we would say, okay,
based on this thing, I'm going to grant
[2:59:23] you another 180 days when in theory, we
could be working through a lot of stuff
[2:59:27] at that time, right?
>> Yeah. It just says demonstrating good
[2:59:30] cause for the delay. So, it could be a
lot of different reasons.
[2:59:33] [clears throat]
>> That would be
[2:59:36] » it would be whoever the land use
authority is for the application. So
[2:59:41] they have to maybe go back
[2:59:49] » question. How many uh applications would
you say
[2:59:55] that
[2:59:59] did leave? He's taking tabs of this
better than I have to be honest. Um I
[3:00:04] » a handful three or four.
>> It's not a lot of cup.
[3:00:08] » Yeah, three or four maybe. Okay. Can we
before second reading
[3:00:13] um ask an attorney
if this will be
[3:00:23] » essentially not?
>> Yeah. Is it retroactive?
[3:00:28] » Do you want that to be retroactive? So,
do you are you asking staff to add
[3:00:32] language that makes it retroactive or
>> I'm asking us to make sure that that's
[3:00:37] legal for us.
Okay.
[3:00:42] » And if it is leaking, sure.
>> I take it out and put it in.
[3:00:50] » I got it.
>> Thanks.
[3:00:51] » I exactly the same question. What do Do
people have I mean, you know, when
[3:00:57] somebody asks you to do something, it's
always a good idea. the person asking it
[3:01:00] should say I'll like this done by you
know and if that time expires is it fair
[3:01:08] to come back and say well
I wanted this done by last week so
[3:01:12] therefore your request
didn't have that deal in I didn't
[3:01:18] understand that in now you know I'm
speaking as if a boss had asked me to do
[3:01:24] something and it's a little different
when someone's in a land use application
[3:01:30] they need to keep performing. So I think
the breath question is very very good.
[3:01:36] » Yeah. I mean how it works in practice
now when it's gone on for a long time, a
[3:01:42] year longer and nothing's happened. A
lot of times what I'll do is I I'll say
[3:01:49] you have 30 days to submit this and if
you don't this is considered inactive.
[3:01:56] And I don't really like that because
it's pretty arbitrary, but at some point
[3:02:01] we do need to do that. And this this
would help us have a definitive time
[3:02:07] frame.
[3:02:11] » Yeah.
>> Okay. For
[3:02:16] here's a question for you by you guys do
all this for a living. This is what you
[3:02:22] do and you you understand this much more
than I do. Do you want the additional
[3:02:27] 180 days or do you feel like we probably
should put it in there as a city
[3:02:32] planner?
You know, you're ask and you're asking
[3:02:36] for an extension that's double that's
the same time
[3:02:40] 180 plus 180, but do you personally feel
like the new doing your job, you don't
[3:02:46] let these guys have an extension?
[3:02:51] » I don't know. Do you have any input on
that, Tom? I don't. Fire.
[3:02:55] If I remember right, one draft said 90
days.
[3:02:59] » It did. Yeah, the first draft said 90. I
think you suggested 180, but
[3:03:02] » yeah, it just historically it seemed 180
days seemed reasonable. Some of these
[3:03:08] larger developments can take a lot of
time to to develop the the transaction
[3:03:13] and the research that's needed, the
betting hurry that's needed. So, if
[3:03:19] they're actively working on it, 180 days
later, say, "Hey, we're getting close.
[3:03:23] We want to extinction. I think it's
reasonable, but we want it shorter.
[3:03:28] » Well, I just want to know if that's if
is what you want, but you have to have
[3:03:33] longer time. If you want to shorten it,
but it's fair
[3:03:37] support, whatever you
>> I think it's a balance because we don't
[3:03:42] we don't want them sitting on their
thumbs and submitting something and not
[3:03:46] when they're not actually ready. But at
the same time, it's almost more painful
[3:03:50] to have to start the process over again
for all parties, you know? So,
[3:03:56] I think that's kind of the balance
there. It's better if we can move
[3:03:59] forward than
>> Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
[3:04:13] » Ready to vote. We're free. Okay. Those
in favor of advanced second be we say I
[3:04:20] oppose. Five in favor post. Perfect.
Thanks Lev by Donald.
[3:04:28] Okay I think we're down to council
reports.
[3:04:34] » You know I just um again I want to thank
Tom and everybody last Jersey barriers
[3:04:41] like water and they're not taken down.
You know, you can tell that that's not
[3:04:45] going to be destroyed or and so I think
they work wonders. Across the street on
[3:04:52] the east side of 12 west, we got a p
house through that pub area.
[3:04:56] » Is there a plan to try to enclose that a
little? It's kind of it's invested and
[3:05:02] you see kids looking in there. Is there
anything we can do to secure that area?
[3:05:07] » This is the irrigation company.
>> They're not. So, we're going to if you
[3:05:12] want us to, we'll go do it, but they're
not good.
[3:05:14] » What? Whatever you guys think. But at
least it is kind of messy. And
[3:05:20] » is the fence panels not on or what's
>> the fence is dilapitated?
[3:05:30] » I wonder.
>> Yeah, they're not going to do anything.
[3:05:35] So, if you want us to, we'll figure
we'll come up with a plan how much it's
[3:05:38] going to cost and come back.
[3:05:53] Okay.
[3:05:57] I don't think the canal board meetings
are open and public meetings. In fact,
[3:06:02] they're they're not an arm of the
government. So, they're not committed by
[3:06:08] meeting.
I mean, I think they have responsibility
[3:06:14] for safety
and that's why I think one option we
[3:06:20] should look at is taking out their fence
that's still advocated
[3:06:24] and then that puts the responsibility
for safety on them, I think. But I don't
[3:06:29] want to get kids hurt.
>> Yeah, they would disagree.
[3:06:36] [laughter]
>> They're not going to do anything. Well,
[3:06:37] thank you for helping stay at the canal
board.
[3:06:40] Okay, Randy, anything else? Nick, happy
birthday, Nick. Help me other than when
[3:06:46] you're older, right?
[3:06:51] There you go. And I made a list of a few
things by left office
[3:06:59] trying my brain up.
[3:07:06] terrible
such things but I guess nothing really
[3:07:11] okay if they come up and it's you know
stuff to take up with staff just reach
[3:07:16] out to them like you know they
appreciate that
[3:07:21] » we got an email from Autumn Zerber few
days ago Wednesday yesterday about a
[3:07:30] landscaping partnership opportunity did
anybody respond to
[3:07:35] You want me to or you two?
>> Yeah. Mayor Mayor reached out to Rod and
[3:07:42] I on that port forwarded on to us and
we're we have a meeting on Monday to
[3:07:47] talk about this with with Becky Jagger
as well. So, just to vet some ideas and
[3:07:54] » with
>> Well, I think we're we're doing it kind
[3:07:58] of more internally first and then we'll
we'll talk to Autumn first. We just kind
[3:08:02] of want to see I mean, if anyone has
ideas, we can put that into the
[3:08:07] discussion.
>> Yeah.
[3:08:15] » Yeah. We'll
I Well, were you going to res respond to
[3:08:20] her?
>> I don't know.
[3:08:22] » My goal is to have
I think one of my versions of emails was
[3:08:28] we meaning not me should respond to
Autumn.
[3:08:31] » Yeah. And I might have taken out the not
me. [laughter]
[3:08:35] » Okay.
I'm I'm h I'm happy to respond to her
[3:08:40] and just
>> and then follow up based on our
[3:08:43] conversation.
to follow up with a lot of
[3:08:45] » Yeah,
>> I I'll talk to Rod and see who wants to
[3:08:48] be kind of the point of contact for
[3:09:01] » Yes. details about what this is about.
We're going to probably set up
[3:09:08] after you guys discuss.
>> Okay, sounds good.
[3:09:11] » No, that's good. I I think we should
present a unified from neighbor city. So
[3:09:17] Nick, you're welcome to be part of
>> Yeah. Do you want to do you want to come
[3:09:20] to the meeting if you're available on
Monday?
[3:09:23] » Sure.
>> Yeah, I can invite you. Yeah.
[3:09:29] » The only reason Becky's involved because
she was thinking about some pollinator
[3:09:33] garden stuff like
[3:09:37] that. It's not because I'm her husband.
you have to be qualified through co
[3:09:44] expertise.
[3:09:47] Um the other thing I just I don't think
I ever told you Cheryl about you told me
[3:09:51] in October and you're probably I want to
go
[3:09:59] » that's okay. Thank you.
[3:10:07] Um, I was asked last meeting questions
about my involvement in county indoor
[3:10:14] recreation study. You say it like it's a
dirty thing.
[3:10:20] [laughter]
[3:10:23] » Happy to report some information for
those that are interested. uh from what
[3:10:28] I understand that first committee looked
very ad hoc never actually
[3:10:34] authorization to give a recommendation
to the candidate. So that's one reason
[3:10:38] this new one has been created.
Part of that was the operating of that
[3:10:43] committee was showed up. That's what the
plan is. Then it's not helpful for
[3:10:49] consultants
is what hold the meeting public. who is
[3:10:54] speaking this meeting or it's this
information just
[3:11:01] » the representatives from UCBO and some
of the people
[3:11:05] » in the room that were part of that
>> they were part of the previous
[3:11:11] » Yeah.
Um they identified three goals
[3:11:17] four and a half. Um essentially to look
at the recommendations as as far as the
[3:11:24] consultants have got in their basic um
answer the question of
[3:11:30] facilities
what those amenities might be possible
[3:11:34] locations all those kind of things
whether or not it's even stom
[3:11:41] and then the operation. So essentially
finishing out phase two of the
[3:11:49] stud they were contracted for and
so
[3:11:54] is the idea and the committee has too
much
[3:12:00] to do what make a recommendation for the
council to
[3:12:08] do and I think they timed it that way so
that cities wanted to continue.
[3:12:14] They say there's still time to get
something on the ballot here.
[3:12:18] Not [clears throat] likely, but it does
give the council the opportunity, the
[3:12:21] county council to put it on board
[3:12:29] 2028,
November 2028. So either cities or the
[3:12:34] council would be
[3:12:39] just met once the idea and plan was to
meet weekly.
[3:12:45] Is that committee subject to open
meetings after?
[3:12:48] » Yeah, we were sworn in and subject to
race. So the agendas and meetings will
[3:12:55] be posted under who's
all
[3:13:01] » I had the same question that we were
that kind of a committee but I think
[3:13:08] » people whose job
>> I'm suggesting and then people would be
[3:13:15] okay thanks for serving that yeah
[clears throat] no
[3:13:19] excited for something.
>> Um,
[3:13:26] I think that's it. Well, you
should you participate in a biking top.
[3:13:41] [laughter]
Um, let me let me just say that we've
[3:13:45] Justin and Chad and I have briefly
discussed, you know, what does this need
[3:13:50] for Nigley on
>> Yeah.
[3:13:53] » on what the county is doing and I think,
you know, you heard it from Kendall,
[3:13:59] heard from lots of residents.
What's the deal? I think I'll give
[3:14:05] Justin credit. We we I won't talk about
it now because we do have a steering
[3:14:10] committee with objectives and things to
do. So um we'll get the steering
[3:14:16] committee back together and discuss
proposals
[3:14:20] about what NI said
[3:14:28] you mentioning K.
[3:14:32] Uh I went to the wreck meeting yesterday
rec meeting meeting yesterday for the
[3:14:39] opening part and uh there was
conversation about uh some struggles
[3:14:45] that I'm having with rups back here as
well as vista's brain
[3:14:57] circles
on I didn't know if that was something
[3:15:02] They need our assistance finding their
stat.
[3:15:04] » Hey, I missed the first part of the
>> So, first part is grubs.
[3:15:08] » Ah,
>> in these fields
[3:15:11] that set is pretty much
they feel confident it's going to be
[3:15:15] okay. Um, then the other was just boring
pressure. No, this
[3:15:20] » if it's if it's staff handling it. I
just thought it was I was there so I was
[3:15:23] like, "Oh, is there something we need
help?" Well, um, so interesting enough,
[3:15:28] um, it's difficult to say, I think, for
sure because I I went through this in my
[3:15:33] own lawn. It's like, I'm going to be a
great example. I'm going to burn my lawn
[3:15:36] up and I'm going to save all this water
and um,
[3:15:42] I only lasted half the summer and then I
just dumped water back on it. And it's
[3:15:47] hard to tell the difference between
water conservation measures and insect
[3:15:52] pest problems.
>> Yeah. And so I I can't say we know for
[3:15:56] sure. I haven't really talked to Rod
about this problem. So I need to get
[3:15:58] with him and maybe do some followup. But
um it's hard to differentiate the two
[3:16:03] while it's happening. Hell, things start
greening back up and for some reason
[3:16:06] parts aren't green back up. So I will
get with Rod on that and maybe shoot you
[3:16:11] an email or something.
[3:16:18] » All right. So, Bike Utah, Lei and I have
been at the Bike Utah Summit.
[3:16:24] Bike Utah is more than the name implies.
It's it's an advocacy group for active
[3:16:30] transportation, including pedestrian
trails and and bikes. Um,
[3:16:37] I
went because I was on a discussion panel
[3:16:42] with
mayor of Carowan and Provo. The topic
[3:16:48] was
from city streets to city hall. How
[3:16:53] three Utah mayors are turning active
transportation vision into reality.
[3:16:58] » That's us we're doing.
[3:17:04] » Slowly.
>> Well, thank you. [clears throat] I don't
[3:17:06] know. That's I didn't have much to say.
>> [laughter]
[3:17:10] » I actually thought the panel discussion
was was was great. And um
[3:17:17] to me I I look at what keeps that
transformation from vision to reality
[3:17:25] from happening and I think it falls into
two categories.
[3:17:31] Um, it's either funding limitations to
build the infrastructure
[3:17:38] or it's a cultural change
from citizens
[3:17:44] to to embrace active transportation.
And it was it was quite different for
[3:17:53] Parawan than it was for Provo than it
was from my perspective for Nibbley.
[3:18:00] Um,
Provo
[3:18:04] has funding limitations in part because
they're a builtout town and so when they
[3:18:10] want to in incorporate active
transportation, they're there are big
[3:18:14] costs involved, especially when they're
a builtout town with limited space. They
[3:18:19] also they also have a lot of students
that want transportation, so they're
[3:18:23] motivated to do that. Parowan being more
of a resort type destination.
[3:18:30] Um
they're also a infrastructure
[3:18:34] pay uh uh financing limit because they
want to
[3:18:39] they want to build things for tourists
as you know when they come down and so
[3:18:47] they're talking about long trails and
you know big things where from my
[3:18:52] perspective nibly it's more of a uh we
don't have the infrastructure cost
[3:18:58] limitations like these other towns
because we're making developers build
[3:19:04] our trail system for us. Now, um
the one case where the developer is not
[3:19:10] doing it, golly, the
department of transportation is willing
[3:19:15] to put $4 million into not a midle trail
system, but into the bikes for Utah
[3:19:21] trail network. So, so I think and you
all have been part of the discussion
[3:19:26] from my perspective.
uh Nimble's limitation [clears throat]
[3:19:31] is about a culture change and maybe we
don't want a culture change. That's the
[3:19:38] kind of thing that we you know we deal
with as elected representatives and
[3:19:42] that's what that's why we write plans
and that's why we have um
[3:19:48] we have meetings about public input and
all that kind of stuff. But certainly,
[3:19:54] you know, the two hardest things that
I've been involved with in city
[3:20:01] government for 25 years, I think one of
them came just before I was involved
[3:20:05] with city government. They revolved
around active transportation.
[3:20:11] Um, one was out on Hollow Road and one
was called Flashfield. They don't have
[3:20:16] to hide, right? That was [clears throat]
that was hard. And so my my objective
[3:20:22] for speaking was not to be moan about
how hard the might pro the process might
[3:20:29] be and how difficult it might be, but to
talk about lessons learned and things
[3:20:34] that we could do differently or not do
at all.
[3:20:40] Um and so so that was my focus.
And
[3:20:45] one of those things was it's hard and I
told you this, it's it's hard for people
[3:20:53] to understand what the impact of active
transportation is going to be to them as
[3:21:02] car drivers.
We can't make space. We can only
[3:21:06] allocate space or we can find new space
that doesn't doesn't affect car driver
[3:21:10] so much. But
um I think 12 West Quest is a good
[3:21:15] example of how what what we try to build
in not just for volume and space but for
[3:21:21] safety
and barriers and all this stuff and and
[3:21:26] and and I threw in um I added to the to
the to the discussion traffic combing
[3:21:33] because I think traffic combing and
active transportation go hand in hand,
[3:21:38] right?
So,
[3:21:42] um
I think that
[3:21:46] we need to do a better job of helping
people
[3:21:50] understand what this is going to look
like when it's done, understand what the
[3:21:55] impacts to them be when it's done.
I was speaking to a room of advocates.
[3:22:01] I'll be very honest about that. And so I
also said we need to um
[3:22:08] as local governments we need to
um make sure everyone is represented
[3:22:17] when we have these discussions about
active transportation and the impacts on
[3:22:24] cars.
And we need people, I mean, we filled a
[3:22:28] room
full of people that want traffic calming
[3:22:32] and active transportation protection on
8 West, Pent West, but those people need
[3:22:39] to stay involved in the process if the
advocates
[3:22:42] [clears throat] want for active
transportation, want to see it happen.
[3:22:48] uh
related to that,
[3:22:53] letting people understand what something
looks like before it's built.
[3:23:00] Um
I'm very excited about a grant, and I
[3:23:06] mentioned this to the group, Safe
Streets for All Grant from the Federal
[3:23:10] Highway Administration,
$380,000
[3:23:14] for demonstration projects. say, "Look,
this is what we're thinking about." have
[3:23:20] both groups,
those that use active transportation and
[3:23:24] those that don't, have a chance to see
what this looks like, see if if that's
[3:23:28] something that's flying.
I I I happened to mention that um just
[3:23:36] that weekend I uh read an article that
made me worry about our funding for that
[3:23:44] because the Federal Highway
Administration
[3:23:49] is moving funding from active
transportation projects
[3:23:54] into well it's moving they're moving
away from active transportation
[3:23:59] projects.
that were that were available in the
[3:24:02] previous administration. And while I try
to keep federal politics out of local
[3:24:07] politics, this one affects us.
I'm worried that will affect us. The the
[3:24:13] quote from Sean Duffy, the
I'm going to get to it. I'm going to say
[3:24:18] it. He said it. This was his quote on X
in July.
[3:24:24] FHWA funds will no longer be used for
DEI bike lanes.
[3:24:31] I don't know what the DEI bike lane is
as that standard. It's his quote.
[3:24:38] And if I take the words that acronym,
I'm trying to figure out what's wrong
[3:24:42] with that kind of bike lane. I'm
obviously an advocate for
[3:24:46] transportation. I readily admit. So
anyway, that led me to say, look, I
[3:24:52] think I think trail advocates have some
headwinds and we may not get the kind of
[3:24:57] help from the federal government uh that
we used to. The the state government got
[3:25:03] involved in
regulating bike lanes in Salt Lake City.
[3:25:10] They put UD do in charge of reviewing
and approving active transportation
[3:25:15] plans in a town that has in a town
happens to be Salt Lake City. Maybe
[3:25:22] that's special, but that's been normally
reserved for local municipalities.
[3:25:29] Though I think there may be some ethics
from the state level from what the
[3:25:32] legislature has done. Anyway, the fact
that I mentioned the Federal Highway
[3:25:37] Administration funds and it wasn't a
wasn't a big complaint. Um, there was
[3:25:42] actually an employee of the Federal
Highway Administration at this
[3:25:47] conference and she came up to me and she
said, "I'm one of the people you're
[3:25:51] worried about."
[3:25:54] And she said, "You're mad at." I didn't
want it be that way. She said, "I
[3:25:59] checked on it. business grant is secure.
You will be receiving the money. It's
[3:26:02] just it's just which Levi already said
it's the way.
[3:26:08] So, I'm I'm still
I'm still excited to
[3:26:14] to to use that money to let us
understand what the stuff looks like.
[3:26:21] Um I was I really enjoyed the connection
that I made
[3:26:26] with Rails to Trails Conservancy.
Uh Rails to Trails has been around for
[3:26:33] 60 years converting abandoned rail lines
into active transportation.
[3:26:38] They have grown beyond that. I mean they
have a Washington DC to Washington state
[3:26:44] national well to travel that we can go
right on on but they move beyond that
[3:26:51] into
uh being a advocate for
[3:26:56] anti-transportation whether it's
abandoned rail liner and there's a great
[3:27:03] documentary that we got to watch on PBS
PBS produced it um I'm a cheapkate and
[3:27:10] don't have any subscriptions to
anything.
[3:27:15] And if you want to watch PBS shows now,
you actually have to go pay them or
[3:27:20] really
>> have it as part of your hope just comes
[3:27:24] along in chat.
>> Well, I guess the federal government
[3:27:27] doesn't pay.
>> I don't know. Pay for it one day and
[3:27:31] [clears throat]
>> invite the whole community. Invite the
[3:27:34] whole community.
[3:27:38] » That'd be a great move. the bike
>> with a theme.
[3:27:41] » The thing that the thing that interested
me made me excited about connection to
[3:27:47] the Rails of Trails Conservancy is
to learn that we're not really that much
[3:27:52] different than anybody else. Rails to
Trails has been dealing with the thought
[3:28:00] that nobody wants to trail next to their
backyard for 60 years.
[3:28:06] This is not a new thing. It's not a new
thing in cash valley. It's not a new
[3:28:10] thing in nipple. It's not a new thing at
all. And in fact, um,
[3:28:18] major lawsuits
over land owned by the federal
[3:28:23] government that had rail easements on
federal land that were used for trails,
[3:28:32] uh, sorry, rails.
when those easements were abandoned by
[3:28:36] railroad companies, what happens to the
land? Rails trail said, "Well, we know
[3:28:41] we'll turn back transportation."
So, it's not only do people
[3:28:49] not want a trail next to the backyard.
They'd rather not have they'd rather not
[3:28:53] they'd rather have a train in their
backyard than have a trail in the back.
[3:28:58] [laughter]
[3:29:00] I grew up in Pocutello.
I know what it's like to live next door,
[3:29:05] right? Anyway, um so it was good
conference. Um I answer questions if you
[3:29:12] want. Uh more about
Yeah, that's awesome.
[3:29:19] Christmas.
We had multiple times talked about
[3:29:25] walking school buses, doing events like
that and I am on board, but uh is it
[3:29:32] something schools aren't interested in
right now or is it just logistics or
[3:29:35] plus planning yet or?
>> Yeah, we did bring it up to the schools.
[3:29:41] It's been a while to I know to nibbly
elementary. We kind of focused on them
[3:29:47] because they're an allw walk school and
yeah, they kind of bulked at it when we
[3:29:54] talked about it. Well,
[3:29:58] it's hard enough to get volunteers.
You're really going to get a vol. I
[3:30:01] mean, I know the representatives, they
kind of kind of mentioned that, but
[3:30:07] we we thought we thought it was a great
idea. I I don't know if they're going to
[3:30:10] be the ones leading out if we want to if
we want to do that.
[3:30:15] » This year is also excited about we got
two schools school have major problems
[3:30:20] getting kids
school people complaining about traffic
[3:30:24] and my
complaining about traffic. You are the
[3:30:28] traffic [laughter]
you're part of a problem.
[3:30:33] » I don't know. I curious. So it's all
right.
[3:30:36] » Yeah. I think it would be great
>> personally, but
[3:30:44] » and I don't have a big connection to
parents with kids in grade school
[3:30:48] anymore, but when I had a chance, I've
asked parents about it
[3:30:54] and my limited data set is one
encouraging that we're already doing
[3:31:00] that. We don't need your help. And in
fact, it was couple of moms in two
[3:31:05] different neighborhoods.
[3:31:08] We're walking our kids to school. We
have the concerns. We take turns walking
[3:31:14] our kids to school. So essentially,
they're doing the walking school bus.
[3:31:18] And then the other parents were no.
So, so that's a culture change. That's
[3:31:25] what we want to affect.
Um,
[3:31:31] I'll just wrap this up with I was I
attempted to be very cognizant about the
[3:31:37] um
the process we went through in NibLy
[3:31:41] over 12 West and be very respectful of
the multiple points of view that were
[3:31:48] that were presented both by the council
and by our residents.
[3:31:55] » [snorts]
>> Well, I don't have to explain why. I try
[3:31:57] to be very car say, look, people people
have feelings about this. Here's why
[3:32:02] they feel that way. Here's why they told
us they feel that way. And um these are
[3:32:07] the things that u lessons I think I
learned from going through
[3:32:15] the other questions on that. Can I make
a comment on 12th West is just and I've
[3:32:21] thought about this for a long time and
and I just I of course disagreed in
[3:32:28] vacation about sign at 12 West and
you know the traffic calming
[3:32:35] but I haven't disagreeed a lot of that.
I have never disagreed and always
[3:32:39] supported and I think the mayor does a
fantastic job with trying to keep
[3:32:43] everyone safe.
And I think that sincerity of that is is
[3:32:48] so important that you care to keep the
pedestrians safe and the cyclist and the
[3:32:55] driver safe. And so while I might
disagree with a lot of things on 12, I
[3:33:00] never disagree with the intent
of what you've done.
[3:33:06] and what you continue to.
I appreciate that.
[3:33:10] » Well, thank you, Andy. We all share that
we we are responsible for public safety
[3:33:16] and I have no doubt that that's exactly
what each of you on the council and what
[3:33:21] staff is interested in as well. Um,
and I think that's why this this uh this
[3:33:30] panel discussion was relevant.
It was we share that vision. We all want
[3:33:37] that vision of safety and option for
transportation. [clears throat]
[3:33:42] How do we get there? Right. And so I
know we're all we're going to we're
[3:33:46] going to have differences of opinion.
We're going to have differences of ways
[3:33:49] to to get there. And so um thank you for
saying that and and I'll share that
[3:33:54] appreciation that I ask entire staff
that I just have to figure out how to do
[3:34:00] it.
So
[3:34:04] great. Um, briefly
economic I'm just moving on. Is that
[3:34:09] okay? Levi, do you want to add to that?
>> No, thank you. That was good.
[3:34:14] » Um,
governor's economic development
[3:34:20] grants for rural counties are available
and open.
[3:34:26] Uh,
you guys, I don't know if you have
[3:34:29] anything in mind. I have something in
mind.
[3:34:33] » What's it?
>> Um, this is a flyer right now, but I'm
[3:34:39] going to go ahead and talk about I mean
talk to Justin about it. I
[3:34:46] someone came across my email and said,
"Hey, you want to know about sales tax
[3:34:50] in your city?" And I said, "Sure." sent
a contact, sent my contact in and then I
[3:34:56] got a sales call
uh from a consultant whose job it is
[3:35:03] to recruit
uh economic retail development to
[3:35:08] cities.
They have presented a proposal. I'm not
[3:35:13] sure that Nimley is all that different,
but I mean they did some research on it.
[3:35:17] This wasn't just full call. They they
worked on it. Um
[3:35:24] but again the proposal in a nutshell
comes down to like a three-year effort
[3:35:29] to say we identify what type of
commercial especially retail commercial
[3:35:34] would be viable in your town. Um these
are towns we've worked in, these are
[3:35:38] companies that we have match made and
then we talk to you about how we can
[3:35:43] make that introduction and how
we can connect with some of these
[3:35:48] companies. So,
>> um,
[3:35:52] it just so happened, well, of course
they're consultant. I want money
[3:35:56] [clears throat]
$45,000 a year for three years kind of
[3:36:01] thing after one year.
getting into more detail than I need to,
[3:36:06] but I noticed the rural economic grant I
think is available for
[3:36:13] um
uh economic development research to
[3:36:17] connect with with companies maybe.
And I don't know if you got to talk
[3:36:23] about things that you guys have in mind
now or we should get together and talk
[3:36:28] about it. The reason I'm bringing it up
here, if anyone on council, we've got
[3:36:32] I've got a phone call with you guys. I
know it sounds like,
[3:36:36] you know, it's all pie in the sky, but
if someone just send me an email if you
[3:36:41] wanted to be involved in a phone call
with these folks because I'd like to
[3:36:45] have counsel
start.
[3:36:48] It's on September 14.
>> I can give you a quick update on the
[3:36:54] grant. We did actually submit for that
grant last year. Yeah. and we were
[3:36:59] turned down even though we ranked pretty
high, scored fairly well. Part of what
[3:37:04] the feedback we got is we were in the
talking about the blueprint. So now that
[3:37:09] we've done the blueprint and this thing
is in the blueprint, we have a better
[3:37:12] shot. So, we had planned on
requesting basically the same thing we
[3:37:18] requested last time, which was a bunch
of water line to push water out 4,000
[3:37:24] South and then north on 12 West
to help our new well and to help future
[3:37:32] industrial zone
development.
[3:37:36] » Yeah. So, infrastructure cost.
>> Yeah. And I think we submitted that
[3:37:38] letter of intent today.
>> Oh, good. Good. Uh, I do not know if we
[3:37:42] can submit for more than one. I guess we
I could find out about that, but we were
[3:37:47] intending to move forward with that
project.
[3:37:50] » Sherry Stevens number to brag on it. You
know, she was here with the blueprint.
[3:37:56] » Yeah,
>> she was she's available for help.
[3:37:58] » Yeah, she's been helping us with the not
>> been coordinating with her about this
[3:38:04] consultant idea. I'm going to do that.
and say, "So, is this just a fly? Are
[3:38:08] these guys, you know, is it is it money
well spent
[3:38:11] » or are we just
>> we just talking to a consultant?"
[3:38:15] » But I'm focused on
not only a plan, but actually taking
[3:38:22] some steps.
[3:38:27] » Yeah.
>> Okay.
[3:38:29] » I think that'd be a good conversation to
have with Sher and
[3:38:32] » Yeah. I
>> Yeah.
[3:38:33] » Yeah. and she'll probably know these
guys. If not, that makes me nervous.
[3:38:39] Okay, I'm done.
[3:38:44] I
>> think I'm good. You You mentioned the
[3:38:46] arcog grant. Um
yeah, I don't think I have anything new
[3:38:50] else.
>> Appreciate you going to buy.
[3:38:53] » Yeah, it was great.
Thank you.
[3:38:57] » I wanted to give you an update. Nate
asked about this last meeting and I was
[3:39:00] going to give an update at staff board
and then it just blew past it. So, I
[3:39:04] apologize about that, but update on the
Nibbly Gardens Trail issue about selling
[3:39:08] the property to the prop the adjacent
property owners. Um, honestly,
[3:39:14] I hit that pretty hard right after those
discussions we had last there's been
[3:39:19] some resistance honestly on paying for
the property. uh some support and some
[3:39:26] questions and I'm just kind of honestly
got buried with fire and have not been
[3:39:30] able to focus uh
>> much fire
[3:39:34] » consumed [clears throat] by fire and
really haven't had much time to really
[3:39:38] dig into the issue but I did just send
you an email Levi um so anyway it's
[3:39:43] slowed
um I don't know that we have a real time
[3:39:47] crunch other than there's a little bit
of momentum there I'd like to keep it as
[3:39:50] much as we can and try to get somewhere
something done Uh the other announcement
[3:39:54] I have is that the sheriff has employed
a code enforcement officer and pretty
[3:40:00] excited about the direction we're going.
He is former law enforcement um been
[3:40:05] well trained in the field and former
negotiator and really understands the
[3:40:11] message that uh we delivered about being
out there in the community and engaging
[3:40:16] the community and you know working
towards compliance. we're not just out
[3:40:20] there with a stick and tickets and you
know he got it, he understood it. He's
[3:40:25] excited about it and excited to get
going. So staff's going to meet with him
[3:40:29] on Tuesday, the whole uh front desk
staff to kind of talk about some
[3:40:34] preliminary kind of upfront things where
people can call in with complaints or
[3:40:38] concerns and things, some forms that
they've already got built at the
[3:40:41] sheriff's office and whatnot. Levi will
and I will follow up with some of the
[3:40:44] backend stuff. what happens when none of
that works and we have to get to the
[3:40:48] point of citation. There's some things I
think we need to tie up there to make
[3:40:51] sure we're on the right track. And then
they we are planning to have uh
[3:40:56] tentatively I'm getting head nods so far
to have the code enforcement officer as
[3:41:00] well as our animal uh enforcement
officer as well as the new town caller
[3:41:07] deputy if you will here at our next city
council meeting for you all to meet them
[3:41:12] and be able to ask any question you
have. So, I'm I'm started working on
[3:41:15] that this afternoon. Had good results so
far. So, hopefully that'll happen in
[3:41:19] September uh at that meeting. So, uh
other than that, I don't know what do
[3:41:25] you want to say about fire. Um
I'm optimistic about this whole process.
[3:41:31] We've gone from
I think cities very contentious with one
[3:41:36] another at the beginning. Um
cities and counties being contentious
[3:41:41] with one another.
I think by sitting down and actually
[3:41:47] working on things and working out
details, I think that
[3:41:52] um we're going to end up at a good place
for fire protection in EMS
[3:41:57] and it's one that
I'm excited about for nibbly because
[3:42:04] one way or another it leads to a path
for ownership
[3:42:10] of the provider of those services and
the fire district
[3:42:18] involvement resurrection from the ashes
of 1965 actually
[3:42:25] is helping
helping us with helping us potentially
[3:42:29] get there. I shouldn't have said
anything. It's in the it's in the
[3:42:32] newsletter. So
>> did that.
[3:42:36] » Yeah.
>> If I'm not consistent between what I
[3:42:38] just said and what's in the big
>> still the details
[3:42:45] we're working out and we'll come to you
obviously for approval of all this once
[3:42:50] we understand what the options are.
>> Well, so that
[3:42:58] Thomas just a couple things.
We're winding down on the transportation
[3:43:04] master plan update. We we've had we've
been collecting public comment for
[3:43:08] several months. We're going to shut that
down about the middle of next month. And
[3:43:14] mayor, I talked about this earlier. I'd
like to have a joint meeting with the
[3:43:18] planning commission and the city council
on September 24th if possible.
[3:43:26] I believe that's a Thursday that's in
between the planning commission and and
[3:43:30] the city council meeting. It it's a it's
a planning commission meeting.
[3:43:34] » It is a planning commission meeting. So
I stand corrected.
[3:43:37] » I think that's fine. We'd love to see
everyone there. So we're going to
[3:43:41] present where we are with the
transportation master plan has been
[3:43:44] making really good progress. We'll
display the functional classification
[3:43:47] map at that time. Some some phase one
proposed projects for road improvements
[3:43:53] and road or road network.
We'll present some cross-sections. I've
[3:43:59] asked them to also talk how the
transportation master plan is going to
[3:44:04] mesh with the alternative or the
alternate transportation plan and trail
[3:44:10] network and everything else. So, it's
going to be great. It's kind of
[3:44:14] precursor to future meetings where we're
going to be considering adoption of this
[3:44:19] pasture plan as well. And what I was
saying fine too is that I think it's
[3:44:23] fine, Levi, if we do this joint meeting
at the front end of a planning
[3:44:27] commission meeting, then they don't have
to go to a separate meeting. It does ask
[3:44:32] council to go to yet another meeting.
Sorry if you're okay with that. This is
[3:44:38] a good one though. Unlike others,
[3:44:45] » other joint meetings is what I mean.
Unlike the ones that Levi, we're also
[3:44:49] scheduing a public open house to have
the public see this document as well.
[3:44:54] And that'll be on October 14th from 5:30
to 7:00. It'll be here in this room. And
[3:45:01] then shortly thereafter, we're going to
be working with the technical advisory
[3:45:05] committee. I don't know who attended
that on the last one. There's a great
[3:45:10] response from all the other communities
around here, all the stakeholders in New
[3:45:15] Transportation Network, fire, MS, so
hope to see everyone there. I don't know
[3:45:21] if we have to advertise that. If more
than two or three show up, we can get
[3:45:27] that done too.
>> I'm directly open house. I think the the
[3:45:34] declaration of the open chair open. I
think
[3:45:38] » advertising in the open house also
covers open meetings.
[3:45:44] » We will look into it.
>> I think it's good to notice it anyway.
[3:45:47] Okay. Just just so people get notified
that subscribe. I think
[3:45:51] » whether we have to legally I think it's
good to
[3:45:54] » Yeah. I'm been working directly with the
Thomas Edison Charter School developing
[3:45:59] their SNAP plan. Now they finally got a
username and and a password and they're
[3:46:04] they're creating their mouse now. So
we'll see what happens with that. 2980
[3:46:09] Nibbly Park Avenue, excuse me, not 29
Park Avenue, Meadow Lane, 1200 West.
[3:46:16] I meant to meet with them today. We just
ran out of time. So we should be
[3:46:20] starting to finalize that through the
next week or so.
[3:46:25] The Nibi City Center Park, we've been
shut down since July 31st.
[3:46:32] The you ladies trustes have bloomed.
It's a it's a reduced population this
[3:46:36] year, but they're in full bloom. They're
going to seed and within the next 3
[3:46:42] weeks, we should be back to constructing
that. There's a restrooms expected to be
[3:46:48] delivered for the bike park in the next
week or two. They're going to actually
[3:46:51] said that that we don't have to shut
down for that. And then we should start
[3:46:55] seeing some activity also immediately on
direction of the pavilions. So all the
[3:47:00] materials are on site and those aren't
dust generating activity. So we're
[3:47:03] allowed to do those things during the
blooming period. So hopefully we're
[3:47:08] going to have all that wrapped up and
done by fall. So
[3:47:13] you have any questions for me? Everyone
like the traffic this week?
[3:47:18] » It's great.
[3:47:22] get more people on bikes. Um,
>> thank you for your RFPA is a few more
[3:47:27] RSVP. There is no discount for early
registration or however we need to get
[3:47:32] hotel rooms booked or when we run out.
Um, I just wanted to report on the day
[3:47:38] of service that will be September 12th.
Um, there is going to be a flag raising
[3:47:43] ceremony and a flag ceremony here at
city hall at 8:30. Um, it would be great
[3:47:48] if the council could be there. We're
going to raise the flag. Then we have an
[3:47:52] individual from the American Legion.
He's going to we're going to learn about
[3:47:56] the flag and the pledge of allegiance.
We're going to learn how to fold the
[3:47:59] flag and what those solds mean. And then
there will be retirements of flag. So if
[3:48:03] you have bring it then please encourage
veterans or veteran loved ones and your
[3:48:10] families to attend that. Um
I think it's going to be a really nice
[3:48:14] event. Then um after that the n the day
of service will go from 9 until 10 with
[3:48:22] opportunities here at city hall at fire
park and at
[3:48:27] a couple of the projects the pier
project and tree planting had to be
[3:48:32] eliminated for federal grant reasons I
believe and I asked Rob to reach out to
[3:48:37] you specifically and let you know why
that had to be removed from the day of
[3:48:40] service. Um so if you haven't heard from
him I'll remind you again. Um
[3:48:46] um this is advertised on the website. Um
there are posters going out to public
[3:48:51] spaces. Um it will be put on Facebook as
well. And then I did note that I have
[3:48:57] some temporary signs that I've been
working on all day. But
[3:49:01] » better hurry and get them in the park.
[3:49:06] » Yeah, you'll be fine. You're fine. Poor
>> Justin pulls out. [laughter]
[3:49:11] Perfect.
[3:49:21] Uh, so
when do you need the RSVP on?
[3:49:27] » Did you already say when you needed
>> um
[3:49:31] » the 27th and 20th of October? So I
believe that two weeks before we made
[3:49:36] the given up. So at my
>> Yeah, I have a few. That's a Tuesday and
[3:49:43] Wednesday change. Okay, I'm a yes.
>> Weird.
[3:49:47] » I'm retired. I got nothing better to do.
[laughter]
[3:49:52] » Um, I did want to say with regards to
the countywide service that's going on,
[3:49:56] they have all of their projects going on
Friday, September 11th.
[3:50:00] » Yeah,
>> we are encouraging our citizens to
[3:50:02] participate in that as well. And then
typically the service here wraps up
[3:50:06] before 11 o'clock so they can head on
over to the party that's being held at
[3:50:11] little park. So we're definitely
offering support for that and um it's
[3:50:18] all service and it's all great. So why
not participate?
[3:50:22] » Yeah. It turns out from my point of
view, Nibi is so far ahead of what the
[3:50:27] county is working on that we did the
right thing by continuing to do our
[3:50:33] instead of integrating the real tightly.
But there there'll be chance to
[3:50:38] to integrate it county.
I don't mean county and countywide.
[3:50:47] Blair, thank you for being on the
planning commission. You're our hero. Do
[3:50:50] you want to address the council about
anything?
[3:50:54] » No, just happy to be here.
>> Well, we're happy you're here, too.
[3:50:57] » We're at the end of our agenda. Council,
there's anything else to be brought
[3:51:00] forward. Is there an objection to
adjourning to