1 00:00:04,359 --> 00:00:04,714 Good evening. 2 00:00:05,989 --> 00:00:08,995 Welcome to the Nolensville, 3 00:00:08,995 --> 00:00:15,562 Tennessee Planning Commission meeting of August 11th, 2026. 4 00:00:15,562 --> 00:00:22,019 I'm calling the meeting to order, and we do have a quorum, 5 00:00:22,019 --> 00:00:27,362 so please rise and join me in saying the pledge. 6 00:00:27,362 --> 00:00:33,485 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 7 00:00:33,485 --> 00:00:39,830 America, Okay, we have the next item on the agenda is the 8 00:00:39,830 --> 00:00:46,398 approval of the July 14th, 2026 minutes. Is there a motion? 9 00:00:46,398 --> 00:00:48,161 Motion to approve. 10 00:00:48,161 --> 00:00:49,064 Second. 11 00:00:49,064 --> 00:00:52,078 Okay, there it is. Okay, any discussion? 12 00:00:52,078 --> 00:00:56,750 Hearing none, all those in favor please signify by saying aye. 13 00:00:57,585 --> 00:00:57,633 Aye. 14 00:00:58,099 --> 00:01:01,503 Opposed? Passed unanimously. Announcements, staff? 15 00:01:01,503 --> 00:01:07,148 Uh, one thing I did want to mention was I sent out an email, I don't know, 16 00:01:07,148 --> 00:01:13,174 a couple weeks ago regarding a training session that was videotaped regarding I 17 00:01:13,174 --> 00:01:18,971 don't know if it's section or whatever that the new state law 1044 was as it 18 00:01:18,971 --> 00:01:19,505 that the new state law 1044 was as it relates 19 00:01:19,505 --> 00:01:25,073 to various procedural requirements for planning departments and submittal 20 00:01:25,073 --> 00:01:29,116 requirements. I do think that it would be beneficial. 21 00:01:29,116 --> 00:01:35,219 We have been trying to send out any and all training opportunities that we find. 22 00:01:35,219 --> 00:01:40,329 Just reminder is that if you weren't able to attend Uh, there is a, 23 00:01:40,329 --> 00:01:43,991 a videotaped recording of that, of that session. 24 00:01:43,991 --> 00:01:49,559 And, uh, to make sure you're logging any and all training hours you have, 25 00:01:49,559 --> 00:01:54,899 there is a requirement for 4 training hours through the calendar year. 26 00:01:54,899 --> 00:01:59,933 So as we get closer to that November, October fall, uh, I'm gonna— 27 00:01:59,933 --> 00:02:05,044 we're gonna really need to start getting those certification memos, 28 00:02:05,044 --> 00:02:09,239 and I'm happy to send those out. Whenever you're ready. 29 00:02:09,239 --> 00:02:14,045 I just need them when you've completed all 4 hours of training. 30 00:02:14,045 --> 00:02:18,300 Did you mention how they can access that online version? 31 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,351 I believe it was on the online— I believe it was the link I sent. 32 00:02:21,351 --> 00:02:23,181 I believe there's the, the thing there. 33 00:02:23,631 --> 00:02:26,857 And if not, do me a favor, would you send it again please for everyone, 34 00:02:26,857 --> 00:02:28,175 just in case people get busy? 35 00:02:28,175 --> 00:02:29,267 Sure, be happy to. 36 00:02:29,267 --> 00:02:30,595 Thank you very much. 37 00:02:30,595 --> 00:02:35,644 I will say, having participated in that, and I know some of you did as well, 38 00:02:35,644 --> 00:02:40,758 Even though it's directed primarily at people who work full-time in planning, 39 00:02:40,758 --> 00:02:46,272 there's a new bit of legislation that will affect the way a lot of things are done. 40 00:02:46,272 --> 00:02:51,453 So it is really valuable for planning commissioners to have the opportunity to 41 00:02:51,453 --> 00:02:51,785 commissioners to have the opportunity to grasp 42 00:02:51,785 --> 00:02:54,176 some of that because it does matter. 43 00:02:56,193 --> 00:02:56,274 Okay. 44 00:02:57,327 --> 00:02:59,791 Citizen comments. So far no one has signed up. 45 00:02:59,791 --> 00:03:02,201 Is there anyone here who would like to speak? 46 00:03:02,201 --> 00:03:02,315 Yes. 47 00:03:04,332 --> 00:03:06,836 Okay, I'll close citizen comments. 48 00:03:06,836 --> 00:03:11,476 Consent agenda— I don't believe we have anything on the consent 49 00:03:11,476 --> 00:03:13,686 agenda. Surety actions, staff. 50 00:03:13,686 --> 00:03:15,314 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 51 00:03:15,314 --> 00:03:20,606 This is a request for a surety for 7209 Nolensville Road requesting transition 52 00:03:20,606 --> 00:03:20,878 Nolensville Road requesting transition from 53 00:03:20,878 --> 00:03:22,710 performance to maintenance. 54 00:03:22,710 --> 00:03:27,120 They are requesting, following the most recent extension request, 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,716 allowing additional time to complete Um, at the time, 56 00:03:30,716 --> 00:03:35,736 all the required improvements are completed and the applicant has provided 57 00:03:35,736 --> 00:03:35,940 completed and the applicant has provided the 58 00:03:35,940 --> 00:03:39,400 required supporting documentation and paid the fee, 59 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,421 and the surety amount will remain the same, and staff recommends approval. 60 00:03:44,421 --> 00:03:50,183 Okay, I'll entertain a motion. 61 00:03:50,183 --> 00:03:53,642 Motion to approve. 62 00:03:53,642 --> 00:03:55,074 Is there a second? 63 00:03:55,074 --> 00:03:56,055 I second. 64 00:03:56,055 --> 00:04:01,967 Discussion? Is there anyone here from the vape shop? 65 00:04:01,967 --> 00:04:02,946 Yes, sir. 66 00:04:02,946 --> 00:04:06,620 Okay, why don't you come forward and maybe you'll— if you can, 67 00:04:06,620 --> 00:04:10,058 if you have something you'd like to tell us, that's great. 68 00:04:10,058 --> 00:04:14,384 If you just want to be prepared to answer questions, that's fine as well. 69 00:04:14,384 --> 00:04:15,984 Okay, Mike, any discussion? 70 00:04:15,984 --> 00:04:17,996 Just a comment for staff. 71 00:04:17,996 --> 00:04:24,597 The timeline that— I don't know which one of you all JoJo, that was excellent and, 72 00:04:24,597 --> 00:04:29,990 and really helpful. So appreciate those kinds of things. Thank you. 73 00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:32,921 Any additional discussion? 74 00:04:32,921 --> 00:04:37,319 Hearing none, all those in favor please 75 00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:39,799 signify by saying aye. 76 00:04:39,799 --> 00:04:40,682 Aye. 77 00:04:40,682 --> 00:04:44,397 Opposed? Motion passes unanimously. 78 00:04:44,397 --> 00:04:46,520 Okay, surety report. 79 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:52,039 Anybody have anything they'd like to say about that? 80 00:04:52,039 --> 00:04:57,665 This is not a voting item. Okay, unfinished business? 81 00:04:57,665 --> 00:04:58,971 None. 82 00:04:58,971 --> 00:05:01,513 New business? Ordinance 26-16, 83 00:05:01,513 --> 00:05:05,918 an ordinance amending the zoning map of Nolensville, 84 00:05:05,918 --> 00:05:11,087 Tennessee to rezone property referenced as 0 Rocky Fork Road, 85 00:05:11,087 --> 00:05:17,865 also referenced as Motion to change the zoning of the property at the address on 86 00:05:17,865 --> 00:05:19,728 map 056, parcel 11701, 87 00:05:19,728 --> 00:05:26,337 in the Williamson County tax maps from rural large character district CD-2L to 88 00:05:26,337 --> 00:05:32,776 neighborhood center character district CD-4. Greenbrook East rezoned. Staff? 89 00:05:32,776 --> 00:05:34,888 Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. 90 00:05:34,888 --> 00:05:41,392 I wanted to point out that we have an error in the staff report regarding the 91 00:05:41,392 --> 00:05:46,967 acreage that was reported. We accidentally said it was 9.22 acres. 92 00:05:46,967 --> 00:05:49,163 It's actually 19.22 acres. 93 00:05:49,163 --> 00:05:55,245 So we will get that amended for the records and update the staff report. 94 00:05:55,245 --> 00:05:59,299 Just wanted to point that out to you guys first. 95 00:05:59,299 --> 00:06:04,537 But yes, this is the rezoning request of Map 56, Parcel 11701. 96 00:06:04,537 --> 00:06:08,845 They are requesting CD-4. They are currently CD-2L. 97 00:06:08,845 --> 00:06:15,940 This parcel is located at the triangle of Newsome Lane and Nolensville Park Road and 98 00:06:15,940 --> 00:06:22,782 Rocky Fork Road. Staff is recommending an approval to the Board of Commissioners. 99 00:06:22,782 --> 00:06:25,991 Would you discuss a little bit what they want, what their concept plan suggests? 100 00:06:25,991 --> 00:06:26,247 Sure. 101 00:06:26,343 --> 00:06:31,762 Yeah, they, they have submitted a concept plan which is non-binding as part of our 102 00:06:31,762 --> 00:06:34,075 checklist. Um, so it's, it's there. 103 00:06:34,075 --> 00:06:35,695 How many units? What type of units? 104 00:06:35,695 --> 00:06:37,107 21 townhomes. 105 00:06:37,380 --> 00:06:43,991 Thank you. OK. Is there anyone here from— please identify yourself, sir. 106 00:06:43,991 --> 00:06:45,440 Eric Olson, Anderson DelGaps. 107 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,589 Yeah, the purpose of this rezoning is kind of continuation of the Green Book North, 108 00:06:49,589 --> 00:06:52,738 kind of there to the west. It'll be the similar type townhomes. 109 00:06:52,738 --> 00:06:56,836 I know also one other point is, you know, we're showing a right-of-way dedication, 110 00:06:56,836 --> 00:06:59,636 and that is to dedicate the right-of-way that, you know, 111 00:06:59,636 --> 00:07:03,634 the town has provided us with a plan that they're doing the improvements on that 112 00:07:03,634 --> 00:07:06,883 intersection. I've got copies if anybody would like to see those. 113 00:07:06,883 --> 00:07:10,982 And we're also working with Metro Sewer as far as providing some easement for them 114 00:07:10,982 --> 00:07:12,781 to upgrade that sewer trunk as well. 115 00:07:12,781 --> 00:07:15,330 So if there's any questions, I'd be glad to answer. 116 00:07:15,330 --> 00:07:16,658 Thank you. Would you repeat your name again? 117 00:07:16,658 --> 00:07:18,006 Eric Olson. 118 00:07:18,006 --> 00:07:19,029 Eric Olson? 119 00:07:19,029 --> 00:07:19,517 Yes, sir. 120 00:07:19,517 --> 00:07:22,360 Thank you. Okay, I'll entertain a motion. 121 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:29,378 For discussion, I'll move approval with staff recommendations. 122 00:07:31,001 --> 00:07:32,345 And I'll second. Discussion? 123 00:07:32,345 --> 00:07:37,815 Do we know how much space is actually usable for this? 124 00:07:37,815 --> 00:07:43,083 Of the 19.22 acres, how much space you can actually— 125 00:07:43,083 --> 00:07:46,298 Yeah, we got the flood line there and it kind of hugs those units, 126 00:07:46,298 --> 00:07:48,295 so there'll be some cut and fill on that, 127 00:07:48,295 --> 00:07:50,535 but a good portion of it is in the floodplain. 128 00:07:50,535 --> 00:07:53,798 And I know there have been some discussions with the town as far as 129 00:07:53,798 --> 00:07:54,529 discussions with the town as far as dedicating as a 130 00:07:54,529 --> 00:07:58,474 park area because I know he's done that To the south of Greenbrook South and also 131 00:07:58,474 --> 00:07:59,302 Greenbrook North. 132 00:07:59,480 --> 00:07:59,625 So... 133 00:07:59,625 --> 00:08:04,492 We don't have an acreage estimate of those? 134 00:08:04,492 --> 00:08:05,866 I don't have an acreage on here, no, I don't. 135 00:08:05,866 --> 00:08:09,425 The townhomes themselves, 136 00:08:09,425 --> 00:08:14,123 are they located within the flood 137 00:08:14,123 --> 00:08:14,835 zone? 138 00:08:14,835 --> 00:08:16,195 Some of them are sitting right on it, 139 00:08:16,195 --> 00:08:18,879 but they'll all have to be filled above the floodplain to meet floodplain 140 00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:21,489 requirements. So— and then we'll have to offset any fill with some cut. 141 00:08:24,004 --> 00:08:27,348 So what does that do to the floodplain on units? 142 00:08:27,348 --> 00:08:31,179 You've got 19, 20, and 21 sitting in the 100-year plan, 143 00:08:31,179 --> 00:08:34,035 which basically means 1% chance annually. 144 00:08:34,035 --> 00:08:39,607 And it has— we have certainly had several 100-year floods in the last few years. 145 00:08:39,607 --> 00:08:43,717 I assume what you're saying— let me make sure I understand. 146 00:08:43,717 --> 00:08:48,245 You're saying you basically build up where those are going to be? 147 00:08:48,245 --> 00:08:48,359 Yes. 148 00:08:48,630 --> 00:08:52,689 What does that do to push the water? Where does the water then go? 149 00:08:52,689 --> 00:08:56,114 Since that's what we're saying, like we fill up right here, we'll cut right here. 150 00:08:56,114 --> 00:08:57,805 So you're provided storage volume. Okay. 151 00:08:57,805 --> 00:08:59,581 So normally when we do that, we'll offset, 152 00:08:59,581 --> 00:09:01,949 provide a little extra just to be as a factor of safety. 153 00:09:01,949 --> 00:09:04,190 So we'll raise those units above the flood elevation, 154 00:09:04,190 --> 00:09:07,234 which I think we've got some flood sections on there with the elevation. 155 00:09:07,234 --> 00:09:10,701 So it'll be kind of a cut-fill balance to make sure we're not reducing that volume 156 00:09:10,701 --> 00:09:12,350 of stormwater that can be stored there. 157 00:09:12,350 --> 00:09:13,450 So, okay. Thank you. 158 00:09:14,256 --> 00:09:18,483 I know you're not bound by the concept plan, 159 00:09:18,483 --> 00:09:21,364 but you have 20 acres roughly. 160 00:09:21,364 --> 00:09:23,766 What's your thinking? If— 161 00:09:23,766 --> 00:09:25,562 is it— What was that? 162 00:09:25,562 --> 00:09:26,935 What's your thinking about— 163 00:09:26,935 --> 00:09:30,544 are you thinking along the lines of this is really what you want to do? 164 00:09:30,544 --> 00:09:32,577 You're not bound by it. I'm just asking. 165 00:09:32,577 --> 00:09:34,634 Yeah, this is what he had planned because, you know, 166 00:09:34,634 --> 00:09:37,285 he has the similar townhomes to the west there at Greenbrook North. 167 00:09:37,285 --> 00:09:37,558 Okay. 168 00:09:37,558 --> 00:09:40,903 So that's kind of what he wants to do is kind of continue that out, 169 00:09:40,903 --> 00:09:43,400 kind of make it a nice little road front. So Okay. 170 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,502 Yeah, I kind of agree, Len, or what you're— maybe I'm thinking what you're 171 00:09:48,502 --> 00:09:49,123 you're— maybe I'm thinking what you're thinking, 172 00:09:49,123 --> 00:09:51,467 you know, going from CD-2 to CD-4. 173 00:09:51,467 --> 00:09:56,294 Not saying there's a rug pull, but, you know, I'm thinking if there's— 174 00:09:56,294 --> 00:09:59,672 with this parcel, what'd be like best use for it? 175 00:09:59,672 --> 00:10:02,706 And I do think townhomes do look, look nice. 176 00:10:04,926 --> 00:10:05,008 The— 177 00:10:05,351 --> 00:10:09,855 not the issue is, is if this project doesn't go forth, 178 00:10:09,855 --> 00:10:16,362 the townhomes We've just rezoned it for CD-4, which means retail, multifamily, 179 00:10:16,362 --> 00:10:20,949 senior living, multi-use— yeah, multi-use, multifamily. 180 00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:25,954 And not sure that's the direction that I would go with that. 181 00:10:25,954 --> 00:10:30,578 The thing about that is, that's important, it might not be what we would want. 182 00:10:30,578 --> 00:10:31,289 Correct. 183 00:10:31,289 --> 00:10:37,343 But if we make this approval, they could come in with something like that, 184 00:10:37,343 --> 00:10:41,516 and if they satisfy all of the zoning requirements, 185 00:10:41,516 --> 00:10:43,561 including protecting the— 186 00:10:43,561 --> 00:10:43,932 Yeah. 187 00:10:43,932 --> 00:10:45,943 —the homes from flood, 188 00:10:45,943 --> 00:10:51,609 they would have the opportunity to go ahead with that project. 189 00:10:51,609 --> 00:10:57,733 So without speculating as to what they may or may not do, you know, 190 00:10:57,733 --> 00:11:04,314 the question really comes down to whether we believe that a CD-4 zone is 191 00:11:04,314 --> 00:11:09,615 appropriate in that space. Staff has suggested that it is. 192 00:11:09,615 --> 00:11:16,604 The piece to keep in mind, too, is that because it is greater than 10 acres, 193 00:11:16,604 --> 00:11:22,766 10 acres or greater, only 85% of the structures can be residential. 194 00:11:22,766 --> 00:11:29,664 15— at least minimum 15% have to be Non-residential according to our zoning 195 00:11:29,664 --> 00:11:31,503 ordinance right now. 196 00:11:31,503 --> 00:11:33,718 So this would be in violation because there's— 197 00:11:33,718 --> 00:11:36,741 That would, just as it is right now, that would be in violation. 198 00:11:36,741 --> 00:11:39,533 Again, this would be if this was actually what they were presenting. 199 00:11:39,533 --> 00:11:41,702 Right, I understand. Okay. And that's what I'm saying. 200 00:11:41,702 --> 00:11:44,305 Are you aware, sir, of what Commissioner— 201 00:11:44,305 --> 00:11:47,084 I think we have a list here at 9.22 acres. 202 00:11:47,084 --> 00:11:47,679 Pardon? 203 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,510 I think we have it listed as 9.22 acres. 204 00:11:49,510 --> 00:11:53,178 You do, but we're— we were just told that it's actually almost 20 acres. 205 00:11:53,178 --> 00:11:53,748 It's 19.22. 206 00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:54,986 That's what we were just told. 207 00:11:55,585 --> 00:11:58,576 I mean, we could break off some and dedicate that to the town right away and 208 00:11:58,576 --> 00:11:58,773 dedicate that to the town right away and break 209 00:11:58,773 --> 00:12:00,701 that off if that would make you more comfortable. 210 00:12:00,701 --> 00:12:02,935 You mean you only want to use the 9.22? 211 00:12:02,935 --> 00:12:05,495 Yeah, I mean, we— our only intention is to do residential, 212 00:12:05,495 --> 00:12:07,878 so anything that would limit that, I'm fine with that. 213 00:12:07,878 --> 00:12:10,371 Well, thank you, but whether the town would, 214 00:12:10,371 --> 00:12:14,848 would want to accept that land is not something that we're going to decide here 215 00:12:14,848 --> 00:12:15,301 tonight. 216 00:12:15,301 --> 00:12:15,705 Yeah. 217 00:12:15,705 --> 00:12:16,449 Okay. 218 00:12:16,449 --> 00:12:22,296 I would like to amend my motion Given that there are some concerns, 219 00:12:22,296 --> 00:12:28,840 I would move that we approve or a recommendation for rezoning or to— excuse 220 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:29,102 recommendation for rezoning or to— excuse me— 221 00:12:29,102 --> 00:12:36,083 to just simply remove that it stays right now as Character District CD-2L until— 222 00:12:36,083 --> 00:12:38,439 2012. Uh, we can't— I mean, 223 00:12:38,439 --> 00:12:45,595 it's either that or table it because we're kind of in that position of, all right, 224 00:12:45,595 --> 00:12:50,045 well, now you're saying you're going to shorten it. 225 00:12:50,045 --> 00:12:53,186 Well, we need to see how that looks. 226 00:12:53,186 --> 00:13:00,429 So I don't know whether it's to defer it if you wish to withdraw till you come back 227 00:13:00,429 --> 00:13:04,618 and take a look at that, or if we just need, uh, 228 00:13:04,618 --> 00:13:10,377 to not approve because it's already in the town. I'm sorry, I was— 229 00:13:10,377 --> 00:13:13,672 You really want to withdraw the motion? You want to withdraw your motion? 230 00:13:13,672 --> 00:13:16,576 Yeah, I want to withdraw my motion, I think, at this point. 231 00:13:16,576 --> 00:13:20,913 So I'm going to— for discussion purposes, 232 00:13:20,913 --> 00:13:27,261 I'm going to make a motion that we approve this request with 233 00:13:27,261 --> 00:13:31,280 staff comments. And is there a second? 234 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,512 Okay, the motion fails without a second. 235 00:13:37,719 --> 00:13:44,096 So, Charles, we— that means it moves on with a negative recommendation. 236 00:13:44,096 --> 00:13:47,710 It becomes a negative recommendation or no recommendation? 237 00:13:47,710 --> 00:13:49,927 I mean, it's the same. 238 00:13:49,927 --> 00:13:53,974 Can I— I'll go ahead and second it so we can have further discussion. 239 00:13:53,974 --> 00:13:57,457 Okay. Can they come back? Is there a timeline? 240 00:13:57,457 --> 00:14:01,016 How— if we don't pass this, can they come back? 241 00:14:01,016 --> 00:14:06,921 There's no limit to how quickly they can come Nothing is actually being denied 242 00:14:06,921 --> 00:14:07,527 tonight. 243 00:14:07,736 --> 00:14:09,421 It is just a recommendation item. 244 00:14:09,421 --> 00:14:13,738 Well, at this point we have got the motion back on the table, Charles. 245 00:14:13,738 --> 00:14:18,055 And so we are having discussion. It may be denied. It may be approved. 246 00:14:18,055 --> 00:14:22,195 Okay. All right. Well, regardless, it is a recommendation or a— 247 00:14:22,195 --> 00:14:26,448 Yes, it is a recommendation to the Board of Commissioners. Correct. 248 00:14:26,448 --> 00:14:26,641 Yes. 249 00:14:26,641 --> 00:14:27,315 Okay. 250 00:14:27,892 --> 00:14:29,449 Do we have some further discussion? 251 00:14:29,787 --> 00:14:32,146 Do you have— and so I'm looking on this, right? 252 00:14:32,146 --> 00:14:35,660 And I don't know the answer to this, so I'm going to ask the question. 253 00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:39,074 That's Rocky Fork where they would be coming in and out of, correct? 254 00:14:39,074 --> 00:14:39,594 Yes. 255 00:14:39,594 --> 00:14:42,058 Okay, so that's really congested. 256 00:14:42,058 --> 00:14:47,733 Um, as someone that has been driving in school traffic for the last 3 hours, 257 00:14:47,733 --> 00:14:52,063 which I know it's just the start of school and it happens, 258 00:14:52,063 --> 00:14:54,005 but I know in the morning, 259 00:14:54,005 --> 00:14:59,978 I know when there's baseball and we have a very popular baseball team right now. 260 00:14:59,978 --> 00:15:06,101 Like, you've got traffic that I feel is super congested that I don't know it makes 261 00:15:06,101 --> 00:15:06,175 super congested that I don't know it makes a 262 00:15:06,175 --> 00:15:09,610 lot of sense for us to add to that congestion. 263 00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:15,509 Um, and secondly, I wanted to ask if we know if all the townhomes in Greenbrook 264 00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:19,914 North are, are, uh, spoken for. I believe they're all sold. 265 00:15:19,914 --> 00:15:24,170 Yes, everything in Greenbrook North. Greenbrook North is— 266 00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:26,811 Yeah. And Greenbrook South is the one he's about to start. 267 00:15:26,811 --> 00:15:30,180 I think there's some delay on that, working out the sewer with the public. 268 00:15:30,650 --> 00:15:31,810 So, okay. 269 00:15:31,810 --> 00:15:34,223 And do you have a timeline on the sewer upgrades? 270 00:15:34,223 --> 00:15:37,030 Because I'm understanding that that's going to take time. 271 00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:39,925 Yeah, that's Metro. I know the one up north near Mill Creek is— 272 00:15:39,925 --> 00:15:42,774 that's supposed to be in operation within the next year or so. 273 00:15:42,774 --> 00:15:45,302 So, I mean, he still wouldn't be able to tie into that. 274 00:15:45,302 --> 00:15:49,162 We wouldn't be able to get plans approved through Metro Sewer until that capacity is 275 00:15:49,162 --> 00:15:49,530 granted. 276 00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:52,859 So Do you have any idea on the timeline? 277 00:15:52,859 --> 00:15:55,503 No, I know they're still working on easements because I know they've 278 00:15:55,503 --> 00:15:56,047 easements because I know they've approached him 279 00:15:56,047 --> 00:15:59,041 about working with him on easements on here. So I think they're still at that 280 00:15:59,041 --> 00:15:59,275 here. So I think they're still at that stage. 281 00:15:59,275 --> 00:16:00,208 So it may be 2, 3 years. 282 00:16:00,208 --> 00:16:07,106 Staff, I'd like to ask, to Commissioner Adams' point, if this were a 9.22-acre 283 00:16:07,106 --> 00:16:07,549 Adams' point, if this were a 9.22-acre plot, 284 00:16:07,549 --> 00:16:13,474 would a— would it— for them to be able to build Those 21 townhomes, 285 00:16:13,474 --> 00:16:18,073 would they need a CD-4? Yeah, that's what I thought. 286 00:16:18,073 --> 00:16:23,468 And so the idea of deferring it— postponing it, I should say— 287 00:16:23,468 --> 00:16:26,563 wouldn't change anything, actually. 288 00:16:26,563 --> 00:16:33,816 So I think this is a situation where we either move forward with a recommendation, 289 00:16:33,816 --> 00:16:37,530 a positive recommendation, recommendation, 290 00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:42,041 or we move forward with a recommendation to say no. 291 00:16:42,041 --> 00:16:45,401 And we will be making recommendations. 292 00:16:45,401 --> 00:16:52,123 The Board of Commissioners, I hope you understand, would have the final say. 293 00:16:52,123 --> 00:16:52,864 Yeah. 294 00:16:52,864 --> 00:16:54,829 Okay, further discussion? 295 00:16:54,829 --> 00:17:00,742 Can we just get some clarification on what Commissioner Adams brought up with the 296 00:17:00,742 --> 00:17:03,078 percentages on the total parcel? 297 00:17:03,078 --> 00:17:08,626 Because I feel like there's a lot of variables that's happening right now on 298 00:17:08,626 --> 00:17:14,247 possible donating land to the town, and that's out of our scope and above our 299 00:17:14,247 --> 00:17:14,685 that's out of our scope and above our heads. 300 00:17:17,407 --> 00:17:18,637 So what— what— 301 00:17:18,912 --> 00:17:25,185 Commissioner Adams, I was just going to say, let me just— Adam, 302 00:17:25,185 --> 00:17:29,567 if you can bring up, uh, I think it's 5.9.1. 303 00:17:29,567 --> 00:17:36,736 Okay, that's— that's just under the— under the codes. It's written down. 304 00:17:36,736 --> 00:17:42,711 I don't have it memorized. I think it's either— there it is. 305 00:17:42,711 --> 00:17:49,283 And there's a table if you go the other direction. Up or down? Up. 306 00:17:49,283 --> 00:17:53,193 That should be it right there. Principal use. 307 00:17:53,193 --> 00:17:55,164 No, there's another chart. 308 00:17:55,164 --> 00:17:58,120 Are you sure? That's your 85% residential. 309 00:17:58,120 --> 00:17:58,863 Oh, okay. 310 00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:00,344 Yeah. 311 00:18:00,344 --> 00:18:03,379 Yeah. OK. I'm sorry. There it is. Yeah. 312 00:18:03,379 --> 00:18:08,670 So I guess what I'm saying to the applicant is our concern is you're 313 00:18:08,670 --> 00:18:09,292 applicant is our concern is you're building 314 00:18:09,292 --> 00:18:14,817 townhouses. And I don't have a problem. I have mixed feelings about it. 315 00:18:14,817 --> 00:18:19,641 But I mean, we're trying to work it out because if you've got— 316 00:18:19,641 --> 00:18:24,543 if you want to be strictly residential and you've got 19 acres, 317 00:18:24,543 --> 00:18:30,457 That says you got to put 15% into something other than your residential, and 318 00:18:30,457 --> 00:18:31,002 something other than your residential, and that's— 319 00:18:31,002 --> 00:18:36,682 and that would, I think, be a problem for what you all are wanting to do. 320 00:18:36,682 --> 00:18:36,955 Mm-hmm. 321 00:18:36,955 --> 00:18:42,168 So we're just— that's what we're— at least that's what I'm struggling with, 322 00:18:42,168 --> 00:18:44,392 is how do we get it for you all? 323 00:18:44,392 --> 00:18:49,883 And rather than approving it necessarily now, let you all come back with, okay, 324 00:18:49,883 --> 00:18:54,748 here's 9.9 acres that we can make this work so that you don't have to— 325 00:18:54,748 --> 00:19:00,239 that you'll be under that requirement, because the requirement kicks in at 10%— 326 00:19:00,239 --> 00:19:01,073 at 10 acres. 327 00:19:01,073 --> 00:19:05,796 Mr. Olson, having heard Commissioner Adams' point, what's your pleasure? 328 00:19:05,796 --> 00:19:09,047 Um, can we also grant, you know, conditional on a variance, you know, 329 00:19:09,047 --> 00:19:12,346 saying that we can do 100% residential? Is that a possibility as well? 330 00:19:12,346 --> 00:19:15,210 I'm not sure I follow you. 331 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,926 You would have to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals to ask for a variance of 332 00:19:18,926 --> 00:19:19,060 Zoning Appeals to ask for a variance of the 333 00:19:19,060 --> 00:19:21,526 zoning ordinance. Then I'm not so sure that that would— 334 00:19:21,526 --> 00:19:24,014 You want to defer it and get this sorted out, or— 335 00:19:24,014 --> 00:19:26,400 We can defer a meeting if that's what's needed. 336 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,204 Okay. 337 00:19:27,204 --> 00:19:29,715 Yeah, you have— 338 00:19:29,715 --> 00:19:32,225 I'd say we should— would you at least want to— 339 00:19:32,225 --> 00:19:35,717 you'd be in the same place if we say yes or no, really, correct? 340 00:19:35,717 --> 00:19:36,714 Correct. 341 00:19:36,714 --> 00:19:39,703 So would you want to know what our choice is before you— 342 00:19:39,703 --> 00:19:41,519 What do you mean we'd be in the same place? 343 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:46,898 Like, if we, if we make the recommendation and let's say we vote No, or on this, 344 00:19:46,898 --> 00:19:49,117 they're okay with a postponement. 345 00:19:49,117 --> 00:19:53,959 Okay, I would say, should they know which way or which way or the other? 346 00:19:53,959 --> 00:19:57,328 I mean, are you allowed to add why you said no to your recommendation? 347 00:19:57,328 --> 00:20:01,316 Well, at this point we're talking postponement, which is neither yes nor no. 348 00:20:01,316 --> 00:20:03,998 Well, if you made the recommendation to the Board of Commissioners that this was 349 00:20:03,998 --> 00:20:04,836 your reasoning behind it, 350 00:20:04,836 --> 00:20:07,115 and by the time we get to Board of Commissioners we had that problem 351 00:20:07,115 --> 00:20:07,417 Commissioners we had that problem resolved. 352 00:20:07,417 --> 00:20:09,864 Yes. 353 00:20:12,864 --> 00:20:16,221 I'm just having PTSD from last time we said— we looked through this, 354 00:20:16,221 --> 00:20:18,886 where then we had to— a little bit of a fire drill to— 355 00:20:18,886 --> 00:20:22,736 Yeah, I think we need an address. We need to give him an answer. 356 00:20:22,736 --> 00:20:27,007 It— even if you come back with the amendments and everything you do, I, 357 00:20:27,007 --> 00:20:31,940 I do not believe that CD-4 is appropriate for this location. I will still be a no. 358 00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:32,550 Okay. 359 00:20:32,550 --> 00:20:35,693 Okay, maybe we have a motion on the floor. 360 00:20:35,693 --> 00:20:40,558 Maybe the best thing we can do, if there's no further discussion, 361 00:20:40,558 --> 00:20:42,429 is to simply call a vote. 362 00:20:42,429 --> 00:20:47,892 Or does anyone, before I do that, have something else they'd like to say? 363 00:20:47,892 --> 00:20:52,831 I'm talking to the commissioners at this point. Call the question. 364 00:20:52,831 --> 00:20:53,169 I'm fine. 365 00:20:53,169 --> 00:20:53,783 Yep. 366 00:20:53,928 --> 00:20:57,542 Okay, we can defer. He's fine waiting for the next meeting. 367 00:20:57,542 --> 00:20:58,672 I've already called the question. 368 00:20:58,849 --> 00:21:04,389 All those in favor of Approving the request for rezoning 369 00:21:04,389 --> 00:21:09,830 with staff comments as a recommendation to the Board of 370 00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:15,370 Commissioners, signify by saying aye. All those opposed? 371 00:21:15,370 --> 00:21:17,776 Aye. Nay. 372 00:21:17,776 --> 00:21:18,770 Okay, thank you. 373 00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:27,279 Okay. 374 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:34,574 I believe we're ready to move into our discussion, 375 00:21:34,574 --> 00:21:38,868 and tonight we are going to be focused, I believe, 376 00:21:38,868 --> 00:21:39,985 on Article 8. 377 00:21:39,985 --> 00:21:42,374 Yes, sir. 378 00:21:42,374 --> 00:21:42,908 Staff? 379 00:21:42,908 --> 00:21:48,640 Um, yes, Mr. Chairman, it was— I guess the first thing I want to ask is, 380 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:54,532 was there anything else of any of the other articles we wanted to touch on 381 00:21:54,532 --> 00:21:55,010 other articles we wanted to touch on before 382 00:21:55,010 --> 00:21:58,354 moving into Article 8, either 3 through 7. 383 00:21:58,354 --> 00:22:04,166 If there was anything else, this would be the good time to talk about it. 384 00:22:04,166 --> 00:22:09,818 And again, reminder, we will bring this all back together in, you know, 385 00:22:09,818 --> 00:22:11,570 in a unified document. 386 00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:16,586 But we left it, you know, last month with Article 7, and we've— 387 00:22:16,586 --> 00:22:19,133 I've sent a revision to you all. 388 00:22:19,133 --> 00:22:23,592 So if nothing else, We can move on to 8, or let me know. 389 00:22:23,592 --> 00:22:27,658 I know I owe you comments on the section. 390 00:22:27,658 --> 00:22:28,333 Sure. 391 00:22:28,333 --> 00:22:31,034 About the tree, the tree canopy. 392 00:22:31,034 --> 00:22:34,352 Sure. And that's on— that'll be on— that'll be on 6. 393 00:22:34,352 --> 00:22:36,648 Yeah, I know we talked about it yesterday, 394 00:22:36,648 --> 00:22:39,929 and I apologize I did not get my comments in, but it's okay. 395 00:22:39,929 --> 00:22:41,824 Um, so hearing none— 396 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,654 Terry's comment earlier about the percentage For retail for CD4. 397 00:22:47,654 --> 00:22:49,820 I was looking through that. 398 00:22:49,820 --> 00:22:52,708 I had the new CD4 up from, um, here, 399 00:22:52,708 --> 00:22:58,003 and I don't see anything listed in there for a retail requirement. 400 00:22:58,003 --> 00:23:04,341 Is that going to be a separate table in there, or am I just missing that piece? 401 00:23:04,341 --> 00:23:09,927 I would— I don't know the answer off the top of my head if that was either 402 00:23:09,927 --> 00:23:14,305 relocated, that, that matrix, or, or where we may have We, 403 00:23:14,305 --> 00:23:18,155 we may have put it in Article 4 because that would— 404 00:23:18,187 --> 00:23:21,820 because I'm looking at right now Article 4, commercial districts, 405 00:23:21,820 --> 00:23:23,999 in your accepted comments. I don't see— 406 00:23:24,368 --> 00:23:26,680 then it might be in 5. That's kind of where I'm like, I'm not sure. 407 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,723 It was in 5. 408 00:23:27,723 --> 00:23:33,364 It's in 5 currently, and I couldn't remember if we moved it when we were in— 409 00:23:33,364 --> 00:23:38,039 the idea originally was 4 would be your districts, your zoning, 410 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:43,828 5 would be transportation, 6 would be landscape, 7 was signs, 8 is procedures, 411 00:23:43,828 --> 00:23:47,984 and so on and so forth. And then 9 would be definitions. 412 00:23:47,984 --> 00:23:53,477 So unfortunately, I, I didn't know that this would come up, and, you know, 413 00:23:53,477 --> 00:23:57,187 I didn't look at this section to know where it is. 414 00:23:57,187 --> 00:24:02,754 You know, one additional thing that we were talking about a little bit with 415 00:24:02,754 --> 00:24:03,273 were talking about a little bit with regards 416 00:24:03,273 --> 00:24:04,832 to that section that, 417 00:24:04,832 --> 00:24:09,582 that was being discussed was the language even that it mentions, 418 00:24:09,582 --> 00:24:15,074 because there's a definition of development parcel that has been kind of a 419 00:24:15,074 --> 00:24:20,418 challenging, I think, definition throughout the entire zoning ordinance. 420 00:24:20,418 --> 00:24:25,613 And development parcel is defined as 10 or more acres, something else, 421 00:24:25,613 --> 00:24:27,617 and then a road through it. 422 00:24:27,617 --> 00:24:33,183 But what was interesting is about the section that Adam and I were speaking 423 00:24:33,183 --> 00:24:33,554 section that Adam and I were speaking about 424 00:24:33,554 --> 00:24:36,300 was that one section mentions 5.1.10: 425 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:41,124 within each district of a development parcel of 10 or more acres, 426 00:24:41,124 --> 00:24:46,468 there shall be a mix So that may be something that we need to even think 427 00:24:46,468 --> 00:24:46,913 something that we need to even think about, 428 00:24:46,913 --> 00:24:52,628 is that, you know, given tonight's discussion, we may need to think— is that— 429 00:24:52,628 --> 00:24:52,851 discussion, we may need to think— is that— do— 430 00:24:52,851 --> 00:24:55,448 there's been other times where, uh, 431 00:24:55,448 --> 00:25:00,050 we may just need to give extra attention to it wherever it is. 432 00:25:00,050 --> 00:25:04,874 Or if it was removed, does it need to return in a different form? 433 00:25:04,874 --> 00:25:09,327 I don't know if that answered any question at all, but I, I— 434 00:25:09,601 --> 00:25:14,967 it's helpful. I mean, I think tonight this gave us a lot to think about, right? 435 00:25:14,967 --> 00:25:20,332 Like, we have, you know, they came with 9.22 is what he was referencing, right? 436 00:25:20,332 --> 00:25:24,747 But even in that space, having that 85%, 15% concept seemed like— 437 00:25:24,747 --> 00:25:29,637 I don't know if that makes sense, if we need to change the acreage, sir, 438 00:25:29,637 --> 00:25:31,471 or think about it at least. 439 00:25:31,471 --> 00:25:32,928 Sure. 440 00:25:33,206 --> 00:25:36,739 What is it that doesn't I think the density in that space— 441 00:25:36,739 --> 00:25:40,577 and I think we have to keep acknowledging we have 2-lane roads. 442 00:25:40,577 --> 00:25:44,720 And I don't know if developmentally, from a development perspective, 443 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,278 it makes sense for us just to ignore that, 444 00:25:47,278 --> 00:25:50,629 like keep acting like they're going to change sometime. 445 00:25:50,629 --> 00:25:52,700 And we don't have control of that. 446 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:56,660 But we can control congestion, and people already get frustrated. 447 00:25:57,173 --> 00:26:01,519 So why add to the frustration and make the In essence, we, 448 00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:06,764 we can control whether we allow an upzone, right, in that area, right? 449 00:26:06,764 --> 00:26:11,260 Okay, understood. So, so are we still talking about what we— 450 00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:15,229 I have something, um, prior, prior to 8. 451 00:26:15,229 --> 00:26:17,424 7.1.2, my favorite one. 452 00:26:17,424 --> 00:26:19,138 Is this window signs? 453 00:26:19,138 --> 00:26:23,748 Yes, sir. Um, so, uh, I'm seeing the 33% was initiated. 454 00:26:23,748 --> 00:26:30,034 Um, I do feel like there needs to be a limitation, the overall glass front. 455 00:26:30,034 --> 00:26:36,739 So right now, I believe the way it reads is you can have 33% max on each window. 456 00:26:36,739 --> 00:26:40,092 So if I have 8 windows on my storefront, 457 00:26:40,092 --> 00:26:45,624 I'm able to have a sign that takes up a third on every single one. 458 00:26:45,624 --> 00:26:50,820 I do feel like we need to Also say 33% of your total frontage. 459 00:26:50,820 --> 00:26:56,268 So if you have 3 glass panels, you can have 1 sign in the window. 460 00:26:56,268 --> 00:27:02,555 If you have 6 panels, you can have 2. If you have 9 panels, you can have 3. 461 00:27:02,555 --> 00:27:08,841 So I think there should be a limitation both on the window and on the total 462 00:27:08,841 --> 00:27:09,679 aggregate. 463 00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:17,114 Why do you think that? I'm not disagreeing, I just like to know. 464 00:27:17,296 --> 00:27:22,716 Yeah, unfortunately I deal with sign codes in a lot of municipalities. 465 00:27:22,716 --> 00:27:25,659 Um, that is quite normal, I would say. 466 00:27:25,659 --> 00:27:28,137 Um, you know, at our restaurant, 467 00:27:28,137 --> 00:27:33,867 if I wanted to put a sign in every window in Davidson County, in Franklin, 468 00:27:33,867 --> 00:27:39,055 in Wilson County— Wilson County may allow it, but the others won't. 469 00:27:39,055 --> 00:27:45,172 So it does start to look a little maybe unpleasant to the eye when you start to 470 00:27:45,172 --> 00:27:45,482 unpleasant to the eye when you start to have 471 00:27:45,482 --> 00:27:48,734 a, a window or a sign in every single one. 472 00:27:48,734 --> 00:27:53,303 I also think we should talk about like colors and so forth. 473 00:27:53,303 --> 00:27:58,181 Like, do we allow a single color, a multicolored, like if it's, 474 00:27:58,181 --> 00:28:00,117 if it's lit and so forth? 475 00:28:00,117 --> 00:28:06,157 So I do think that we could be a little bit more stringent in what we're maybe 476 00:28:06,157 --> 00:28:09,099 allowing some businesses to to put up. 477 00:28:09,099 --> 00:28:10,692 I would agree with that. 478 00:28:10,692 --> 00:28:14,941 And I would like to see, particularly for the lit windows, that— 479 00:28:14,941 --> 00:28:17,264 and I don't know if we can do that— 480 00:28:17,264 --> 00:28:22,442 is limit the lighting during hours of operation so that you don't at 2 o'clock 481 00:28:22,442 --> 00:28:22,575 operation so that you don't at 2 o'clock in 482 00:28:22,575 --> 00:28:26,359 the morning have a storefront all lit up, uh, with their, 483 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:32,666 their glaring signs so you look like the fireworks stands down in Jasper. 484 00:28:35,666 --> 00:28:40,766 Staff, you've taken that? Yeah. Do you have any questions? 485 00:28:40,766 --> 00:28:45,461 We'll just ultimately need some determination amongst the greater 486 00:28:45,461 --> 00:28:46,255 determination amongst the greater commission, 487 00:28:46,255 --> 00:28:51,095 you know. Point being, you know, Commissioner Gray says I want 33%. 488 00:28:51,095 --> 00:28:55,356 Is there an additional things you can— is there additional— 489 00:28:55,356 --> 00:28:58,606 can we apply it 33% to the total facade area? 490 00:28:58,606 --> 00:29:02,218 Well, then we got to quantify that, which is fine, 491 00:29:02,218 --> 00:29:05,685 but we got to quantify that Is that okay? Right. 492 00:29:05,685 --> 00:29:10,018 I mean, like, from my perspective, I hear Commissioner Gray. 493 00:29:10,018 --> 00:29:15,797 Is there something else that— is there— is there— is there— does everyone agree? 494 00:29:15,797 --> 00:29:17,169 Is there a concern? 495 00:29:17,169 --> 00:29:19,186 I agree. Okay. Anyone else? 496 00:29:19,186 --> 00:29:21,154 So you're asking us for a head shake? 497 00:29:21,154 --> 00:29:23,536 Correct. Is there— is it— you get what I mean? 498 00:29:23,536 --> 00:29:27,628 Is that if there was just one member that says I want that and everybody shakes 499 00:29:27,628 --> 00:29:31,616 their head no, you know, I want to make sure that But that's being discussed. 500 00:29:31,616 --> 00:29:33,584 Okay, so we can add something to that. 501 00:29:33,584 --> 00:29:36,018 It's gonna— for total area is what I'm hearing. 502 00:29:36,018 --> 00:29:38,578 Well, I think I just want to add the point, like, 503 00:29:38,578 --> 00:29:40,773 so are we expecting staff to monitor that? 504 00:29:40,773 --> 00:29:46,145 Yes. Okay, the, the nighttime one, to be honest, I'm not sure how we— 505 00:29:46,145 --> 00:29:50,116 you know, codes enforcement goes home and so do we. 506 00:29:50,116 --> 00:29:51,751 And so we could have— 507 00:29:52,269 --> 00:29:56,500 they could do complaints of, of Well, if you can't do it in Franklin, 508 00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:57,910 how do they monitor it? 509 00:29:57,910 --> 00:30:01,785 Don't know. There's— 510 00:30:02,204 --> 00:30:06,853 I think it's a rule set type of a deal, because if you don't have a rule, 511 00:30:06,853 --> 00:30:11,884 you get what's happened in some of our businesses in town where the whole front 512 00:30:11,884 --> 00:30:12,011 businesses in town where the whole front of 513 00:30:12,011 --> 00:30:16,405 the building is one big LED sign across every single window at night. 514 00:30:16,405 --> 00:30:19,652 And so help me picture which— like, can you give me an example? I'm sorry. 515 00:30:19,652 --> 00:30:21,634 Like right across the street. 516 00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:26,680 The vape shop? Is that what you're talking about? 517 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,258 Okay, because I think of Twice Daily and they're open all night and I'm good with 518 00:30:31,258 --> 00:30:31,541 that. 519 00:30:31,541 --> 00:30:35,501 Yeah, yeah, I, I, yeah, I don't, I don't see any issue with, with, 520 00:30:35,501 --> 00:30:37,481 with what they're, they're doing. 521 00:30:37,481 --> 00:30:41,681 I just think if you don't have any rules, you get the wild, wild west. 522 00:30:41,681 --> 00:30:43,841 Um, you know, when I get a citation, 523 00:30:43,841 --> 00:30:47,801 I might get a citation like once a year from the city saying, hey, 524 00:30:47,801 --> 00:30:52,301 just take down this, this picture out the window because you have too many. 525 00:30:52,301 --> 00:30:56,141 And I looked at him like, oh, they're right, I do have too many. 526 00:30:56,141 --> 00:30:58,121 So I wouldn't say it's an active, 527 00:30:58,121 --> 00:31:01,541 but it's just more things like you have it in a tool bag. 528 00:31:01,541 --> 00:31:04,781 So if somebody does complain, you're able to point to— 529 00:31:04,781 --> 00:31:09,007 It's not something that would have to be constantly monitored, but if you see it— 530 00:31:09,007 --> 00:31:12,013 And a lot of stuff is done by complaint, to be honest. 531 00:31:12,013 --> 00:31:14,518 I mean, a lot of stuff is enforced, you know. 532 00:31:14,518 --> 00:31:16,127 And you've got something to to hang your hat on. 533 00:31:16,127 --> 00:31:17,569 We're telling you to stop this because you— 534 00:31:17,569 --> 00:31:19,865 Because, right. We can't— if we didn't have a rule— 535 00:31:19,865 --> 00:31:22,515 And that kind of thing gets around, and it's less likely to happen. 536 00:31:22,515 --> 00:31:23,205 So Franklin— 537 00:31:23,205 --> 00:31:24,554 That's how you avoid the Wild West. 538 00:31:24,554 --> 00:31:28,176 Franklin, for example, has a— in case where windows are grouped, 539 00:31:28,176 --> 00:31:31,175 the sign area shall not— excuse me— shall not exceed— 540 00:31:31,175 --> 00:31:33,213 but shall not exceed 5 window signs. 541 00:31:33,213 --> 00:31:36,099 Would that be easier than doing a percentage-based? 542 00:31:36,099 --> 00:31:39,695 I think so. I don't think— I mean, percentage-based just starts to feel— 543 00:31:42,213 --> 00:31:43,161 I gotta get a calculator. 544 00:31:43,161 --> 00:31:46,230 Yeah, let me get a calculator. And if I'm a business owner, like— 545 00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:50,723 But 5 window signs, if I— so if I have a window that's a sheet of, like, 546 00:31:50,723 --> 00:31:54,156 size of sheet of plywood, 32 square feet, and I have a, 547 00:31:54,156 --> 00:31:58,899 a sign that is 4 foot by 8 foot, which is 32 square feet, could I fill that? 548 00:31:58,899 --> 00:32:00,584 And that's one window sign. 549 00:32:00,584 --> 00:32:04,391 So now I have 5 of those windows on the front of my building. 550 00:32:04,391 --> 00:32:09,571 I fill every single window with that, and that's That's 5 pictures. That's 5 signs. 551 00:32:09,571 --> 00:32:12,773 Is it a maximum of 33% of the glass onto which it is applied? 552 00:32:12,773 --> 00:32:16,490 So that's— 553 00:32:16,704 --> 00:32:21,423 so you're saying that's also in there for the other 33% in addition to 5? 554 00:32:21,423 --> 00:32:23,879 Are you saying like add the 5 maximum? 555 00:32:23,879 --> 00:32:27,667 I mean, the other part, just to be blunt, that concerns me— 556 00:32:27,667 --> 00:32:30,942 and it was funny because I saw a few on my way, uh, 557 00:32:30,942 --> 00:32:35,500 driving through town earlier You know, there were signs that were like, 558 00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:40,315 end of each window would have like congrats or 2027 or, or some things like 559 00:32:40,315 --> 00:32:40,636 congrats or 2027 or, or some things like that. 560 00:32:40,636 --> 00:32:44,232 And I'm like, am I gonna have to go, is a number a sign? 561 00:32:44,232 --> 00:32:47,892 You know, when we start, generally we consider a sign as, 562 00:32:47,892 --> 00:32:51,680 as stating commercial intent is kind of how I would say it. 563 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,211 Come try this $5 something or other. Come try this new— 564 00:32:55,211 --> 00:32:57,635 And I think we could probably say like, well, 565 00:32:57,635 --> 00:33:01,190 this would make that rule ridiculous and that would be Irrelevant. 566 00:33:01,190 --> 00:33:04,638 But I think more to Clark's point, it's, it's the, hey, there's, 567 00:33:04,638 --> 00:33:06,146 there's people abusing that. 568 00:33:06,146 --> 00:33:10,563 And so then that would be a complaint and not necessarily you all going around and 569 00:33:10,563 --> 00:33:12,341 saying, you, you wrote, you know, 570 00:33:12,341 --> 00:33:15,681 Merry Christmas in your window and that covered more than 33%. 571 00:33:15,681 --> 00:33:19,276 I think the 33% is a simple— it's just one-third. 572 00:33:19,276 --> 00:33:21,550 Um, it's easier to— because if, 573 00:33:21,550 --> 00:33:27,126 if you have a small retail shop and you have 5 windows, Hey, with that rule, 574 00:33:27,126 --> 00:33:29,620 I can plaster every single window. 575 00:33:29,620 --> 00:33:35,636 If— and so, I mean, that's why you go by a percentage both on the glass and on the 576 00:33:35,636 --> 00:33:36,736 total frontage. 577 00:33:36,736 --> 00:33:42,345 Okay, y'all tell me what, what should I change or what should I update? 578 00:33:42,345 --> 00:33:47,583 Brad, maybe I owe you— can I send you an email with some, some ideas? 579 00:33:47,583 --> 00:33:47,984 That would be great. 580 00:33:47,984 --> 00:33:49,182 And then you can— 581 00:33:49,182 --> 00:33:50,711 And then I'll bring it up, right? 582 00:33:50,711 --> 00:33:54,048 And then I'll bring it up and I'll say, do we all like this? Yeah, okay. 583 00:33:54,048 --> 00:33:55,763 Um, that's fine, that's fine with me. 584 00:33:55,763 --> 00:34:00,269 Okay, are we ready to move to Article 8? 585 00:34:00,269 --> 00:34:02,152 Anything else? 586 00:34:02,152 --> 00:34:06,436 Are we ready? Article 8? Okay. 587 00:34:06,436 --> 00:34:12,471 Okay, Article 8, big picture things to consider. What encompasses Article 8? 588 00:34:12,471 --> 00:34:18,267 Article 8 is essentially the procedures and processes Article at the very 589 00:34:18,267 --> 00:34:19,061 and processes Article at the very beginning, 590 00:34:19,061 --> 00:34:25,017 four and eight were going to be the the bigger problems or the more I think 591 00:34:25,017 --> 00:34:31,608 discussion that was going to be there to kind of get it out front at the beginning. 592 00:34:31,608 --> 00:34:37,404 I don't imagine we will finish the entirety of Article Eight before we're 593 00:34:37,404 --> 00:34:38,039 entirety of Article Eight before we're ready to 594 00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:40,898 go, and maybe we do, maybe we don't. 595 00:34:40,898 --> 00:34:46,059 But I fully imagine bringing Article Eight back again next month. 596 00:34:46,059 --> 00:34:50,427 Regardless whether or not we get it all the way or not, 597 00:34:50,427 --> 00:34:53,047 there's enough substance in here. 598 00:34:53,047 --> 00:34:58,844 And generally staff has met internally much more to go over some of this. 599 00:34:58,844 --> 00:35:05,275 So there's a lot more questions and back and forth and things like that on the in 600 00:35:05,275 --> 00:35:06,864 the comment section. 601 00:35:06,864 --> 00:35:12,978 The so no matter what, we're planning on bringing this back again next month. 602 00:35:12,978 --> 00:35:18,457 Again, Article Eight has to do with essentially. Who are the players? 603 00:35:18,457 --> 00:35:21,474 You know, who are the approval bodies? 604 00:35:21,474 --> 00:35:26,556 Pre-application review requirements, public notice requirements, 605 00:35:26,556 --> 00:35:32,273 and a list of all of the procedures, applications, and what you have to— 606 00:35:32,273 --> 00:35:35,926 Submittal requirements, as it currently reads. 607 00:35:35,926 --> 00:35:39,420 So I would almost— because there is so much, 608 00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:45,455 I would almost want to kind of break it down into sections is that was there 609 00:35:45,455 --> 00:35:51,251 anything within the creating or the stating of who the players are, so to 610 00:35:51,251 --> 00:35:51,728 stating of who the players are, so to speak, 611 00:35:51,728 --> 00:35:55,777 which is about 8.1 to 8.7, I believe it is, or 8.4. 612 00:35:55,777 --> 00:36:00,304 Is there anything in the creation of these are who these— 613 00:36:00,304 --> 00:36:04,830 whether it's Board of Commissioners, Planning Commission, 614 00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:11,023 Historic Zoning Commission, Board of Zoning Appeals, Zoning Administrator, Uh, 615 00:36:11,023 --> 00:36:16,343 design team, design review team, whatever it ended up being titled. 616 00:36:16,343 --> 00:36:21,028 Was there any questions on that portion all the way to 8.5? 617 00:36:21,028 --> 00:36:24,681 So page 1 to page 17, if you have comments on. 618 00:36:24,681 --> 00:36:31,017 Okay, do we need a design review committee per se, or is that required, 619 00:36:31,017 --> 00:36:37,978 or because we're using a third party Do we even need a design review committee 620 00:36:37,978 --> 00:36:38,513 in it? 621 00:36:38,513 --> 00:36:42,346 Unsure. So we have mentioned, you know, 622 00:36:42,346 --> 00:36:46,770 that commission was created prior and exists, 623 00:36:46,770 --> 00:36:53,060 and we've kind of tried to mention that this role can be done by 624 00:36:53,060 --> 00:36:55,419 this third-party aspect. 625 00:36:55,419 --> 00:37:01,513 That's a good question and one I'm not fully sure on what the— 626 00:37:01,513 --> 00:37:03,086 Right answer is— 627 00:37:03,086 --> 00:37:07,674 Okay, that would be one I don't think we necessarily need. 628 00:37:07,674 --> 00:37:12,183 And then you have that, uh, Development Review Committee, 629 00:37:12,183 --> 00:37:17,799 and since it's all in-house— and I think on the side note, you use the— 630 00:37:17,799 --> 00:37:20,884 there's a DRT, so I assume that's team. 631 00:37:20,884 --> 00:37:26,816 I think it would be more appropriate to call it a team since it's in-house, 632 00:37:26,816 --> 00:37:30,376 because a committee, you tend to think, okay, 633 00:37:30,376 --> 00:37:35,834 they're going to be other people from the community or whatever on a, 634 00:37:35,834 --> 00:37:41,450 on a committee. So I would just encourage to say, yeah, make it a team, 635 00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:45,089 it's in-house, and, and, and leave it at that. 636 00:37:45,089 --> 00:37:49,044 Uh, somebody, one of you all made the comment DAR. 637 00:37:49,044 --> 00:37:53,552 What is DA and R on that chart that's down on, uh, 8.5.3? 638 00:37:53,552 --> 00:37:57,112 You've got D's and A's and R's. It's page 20. 639 00:37:57,112 --> 00:38:00,864 Yeah, there's comments that got removed. 640 00:38:00,864 --> 00:38:08,273 That is essentially a, a table that is going to showcase essentially, um, okay, 641 00:38:08,273 --> 00:38:15,307 essentially who— where does the buck stop? Okay, who is the decision maker? 642 00:38:15,307 --> 00:38:19,059 Who reviews it? Who do you appeal it to? 643 00:38:19,059 --> 00:38:20,193 I got you. Okay. 644 00:38:20,193 --> 00:38:24,934 And, and you, you can see that, that That legend still exists in the current one. 645 00:38:24,934 --> 00:38:26,277 Okay. It just wasn't there. 646 00:38:26,277 --> 00:38:29,222 It just didn't— it didn't transcribe for some reason. 647 00:38:29,222 --> 00:38:32,081 Why are you removing nonprofits? 648 00:38:32,081 --> 00:38:34,940 Coming from the nonprofit world, 649 00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:39,585 I don't mind giving us a break. You removed it from— 650 00:38:39,585 --> 00:38:41,498 You're referencing the fee schedule? 651 00:38:41,498 --> 00:38:42,478 From the fee schedule. 652 00:38:42,478 --> 00:38:47,678 Our fees are still the same. So that's my recommendation. 653 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,349 Okay. 654 00:38:50,349 --> 00:38:52,291 Our costs still exist. 655 00:38:52,339 --> 00:38:58,935 And, um, the— yeah, yeah, I understand. I just gotta speak up for my nonprofits. 656 00:38:58,935 --> 00:38:59,112 Sure. 657 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,166 I think it was like $200 or $100. 658 00:39:01,343 --> 00:39:08,000 So, uh, the other one where you have, uh, this is under D-1 in that same section, 659 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,849 you have, uh, how to contact or Yes. Or how to make notice. 660 00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:14,903 It's about notifications. 661 00:39:14,903 --> 00:39:21,067 I'd like to see something in there that if you're making a zoning change to 662 00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:25,012 connecting properties, that it's mailed to them. 663 00:39:25,012 --> 00:39:31,669 Particularly, I'm thinking as we get into more of our urban growth and you've got 664 00:39:31,669 --> 00:39:34,628 older residents who have properties, 665 00:39:34,628 --> 00:39:41,367 they may not be able to pull off on the side of the road to look at a zoning sign. 666 00:39:41,367 --> 00:39:48,188 Uh, may not have at this point necessarily the, the wherewithal, skills to look on, 667 00:39:48,188 --> 00:39:50,654 come to town hall or whatever. 668 00:39:50,654 --> 00:39:56,571 But I think if we're going to do, uh, any kind of, uh, change like that, 669 00:39:56,571 --> 00:40:01,584 that we ought to notify the, the immediate neighbors by mail. 670 00:40:01,584 --> 00:40:07,361 And we have that listed as any rezoning is, is marked as Published, posted, 671 00:40:07,361 --> 00:40:13,061 and mailed. So rezonings are included in all 3 of those, those categories. 672 00:40:13,061 --> 00:40:14,945 Okay. So it would be mailed to the neighbors? 673 00:40:14,945 --> 00:40:16,120 It would be mailed. 674 00:40:16,168 --> 00:40:18,088 And I'm checking just to make sure that it says— 675 00:40:18,088 --> 00:40:19,674 Because I didn't see it specific. 676 00:40:19,674 --> 00:40:20,742 Is it on page 26? 677 00:40:20,742 --> 00:40:21,976 26 is where it begins. 678 00:40:21,976 --> 00:40:26,349 I just want to make sure because at one point it did say all adjacent property 679 00:40:26,349 --> 00:40:26,742 owners. 680 00:40:26,742 --> 00:40:27,192 Okay. 681 00:40:27,192 --> 00:40:29,878 Um, but we can verify. There it is. 682 00:40:29,878 --> 00:40:34,177 F, letter shall be mailed to all owners of property that 683 00:40:34,177 --> 00:40:35,712 Is adjacent to that. 684 00:40:35,809 --> 00:40:39,234 I just want to make sure that stays in there. So, okay. 685 00:40:42,234 --> 00:40:46,799 When it says mail, are you also able to— is that in for email as well? 686 00:40:46,799 --> 00:40:51,220 No, no. And what, what we've removed is one of the big things we've done is a 687 00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:51,565 one of the big things we've done is a class— 688 00:40:51,565 --> 00:40:55,355 is we're getting rid of first class, or excuse me, certified mail. 689 00:40:55,355 --> 00:40:59,604 And also the town was having to bear that cost because this said we'd did. 690 00:40:59,604 --> 00:41:03,681 And so we're not— we're going to change that. We'd like to change that. 691 00:41:03,745 --> 00:41:08,160 So it's not going to be certified mail and it's only going to be regular USPS mail? 692 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,864 It'll be first-class mail and the applicant will be required to do so. 693 00:41:12,864 --> 00:41:14,052 Okay. 694 00:41:14,052 --> 00:41:15,509 Versus us having— I mean, 695 00:41:15,509 --> 00:41:19,995 I have to keep a line item on my budget annually for mailing others for their 696 00:41:19,995 --> 00:41:24,423 project. That's not how Franklin does it and it's not how I've ever done it. 697 00:41:24,423 --> 00:41:27,227 I mean, I don't have a problem with the mail. 698 00:41:27,227 --> 00:41:30,779 I'm just I was thinking about people that disregard mail. 699 00:41:31,891 --> 00:41:34,948 You know, there's some point— there's an email. 700 00:41:34,948 --> 00:41:40,281 The public notice requirement at any time, and my— it is, you can only do so much, 701 00:41:40,281 --> 00:41:45,028 right? We've got— if we put it on the property, we put it on the website, 702 00:41:45,028 --> 00:41:49,776 which we're required to by state law, we do agenda postings, we mail you, 703 00:41:49,776 --> 00:41:55,044 put it in 3 places around town, and it even sometimes goes to the paper for some— 704 00:41:55,044 --> 00:41:57,060 for certain things. And I have, 705 00:41:57,060 --> 00:42:01,547 I have various questions about the what we can and can't do with, um, 706 00:42:01,547 --> 00:42:06,620 notice requirements to a newspaper of general circulation, but that's another— 707 00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:08,246 that's a bigger question. 708 00:42:08,246 --> 00:42:11,418 Yeah, I just wondered about, you know, honestly, 709 00:42:11,418 --> 00:42:13,863 the social media opportunity with it. 710 00:42:13,863 --> 00:42:16,398 Yeah, and there's that opera, and, and there's that too. 711 00:42:16,398 --> 00:42:17,859 I mean, I honestly feel like that's where— 712 00:42:17,859 --> 00:42:19,364 I would, I would agree. 713 00:42:19,364 --> 00:42:23,421 And, and as we're also batting a little bit against state law. 714 00:42:23,421 --> 00:42:26,038 So there is a public notice requirement. 715 00:42:26,038 --> 00:42:28,329 I don't want to speak fully for it, 716 00:42:28,329 --> 00:42:33,432 but I've tried to verse up a little more on it with— I'm trying to remember— 2 717 00:42:33,432 --> 00:42:33,760 on it with— I'm trying to remember— 2 days, 718 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,377 2 places. It should be 2 days, 3 places. 719 00:42:36,377 --> 00:42:39,649 Something like that is kind of your general thing. 720 00:42:39,649 --> 00:42:44,229 And if I recall, my state law history is that they've essentially You— 721 00:42:44,229 --> 00:42:47,566 the Tennessee Supreme Court essentially said, yeah, 722 00:42:47,566 --> 00:42:51,296 you kind of know it when you see it, kind of a, you know, 723 00:42:51,296 --> 00:42:53,783 if it's adequate public notice or not. 724 00:42:53,783 --> 00:42:58,625 So not a lot to hang the hat on, but what has generally been accepted was— 725 00:42:58,625 --> 00:43:03,009 and I'm probably misquoting something— but post it multiple places. 726 00:43:03,009 --> 00:43:08,506 A new state law that just went into effect required any and all agendas to be posted 727 00:43:08,506 --> 00:43:13,086 on a town website if you have one. We do have one. We post it already. 728 00:43:13,086 --> 00:43:13,232 Okay. 729 00:43:14,412 --> 00:43:15,711 On our agenda. 730 00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:20,722 So again, just trying to think culturally where everybody's at, you know, 731 00:43:20,722 --> 00:43:25,951 not saying you're not doing it. I get— I hear you, I get you, I agree with you. 732 00:43:25,951 --> 00:43:28,665 I just try to think culturally of player— 733 00:43:28,665 --> 00:43:32,174 Agree. This just doesn't mean this is where we can only place it, 734 00:43:32,174 --> 00:43:35,251 the only ways to do it. There's other avenues we can use. 735 00:43:35,251 --> 00:43:37,842 This is just the minimum standard for us, right? 736 00:43:37,842 --> 00:43:42,052 So we can explore those later, and they can And this is just minimum standard. 737 00:43:42,052 --> 00:43:44,552 I just didn't know if we could do it based on what was in here, that's all. 738 00:43:44,552 --> 00:43:47,036 But then you're setting a minimum standard then. 739 00:43:47,036 --> 00:43:50,089 If you're calling something out, that's what we have to do. 740 00:43:50,089 --> 00:43:53,452 And that might be something that's passed at that point. So yeah. 741 00:43:53,452 --> 00:43:57,914 So the published is kind of at least how I— is how I'm interpreting. 742 00:43:57,914 --> 00:44:00,802 The published can be published on a website. 743 00:44:00,802 --> 00:44:06,248 And then how that information is done, I mean, we'd post it on that CHAMPS website, 744 00:44:06,248 --> 00:44:10,055 live streams, agendas, that same how everybody gets to it. 745 00:44:10,055 --> 00:44:15,370 Go down to Planning Commission, click it, and our agenda is posted when we do it, 746 00:44:15,370 --> 00:44:16,945 however many days prior. 747 00:44:19,466 --> 00:44:21,387 Okay, we're in the first section. 748 00:44:22,065 --> 00:44:23,518 Yeah, if there's anything— I mean, we— 749 00:44:24,487 --> 00:44:26,392 anybody have anything else in the first section? 750 00:44:26,811 --> 00:44:30,042 Kind of trying to keep us between 8.1 and 8.5. 751 00:44:30,417 --> 00:44:37,038 If you have something else, let's stick with Okay. 752 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:38,810 One other— so 8.5.1, 753 00:44:38,810 --> 00:44:44,102 we've talked a little bit about the summary of review authority, who does 754 00:44:44,102 --> 00:44:44,465 summary of review authority, who does what. 755 00:44:44,465 --> 00:44:49,612 Common review procedures, which is essentially this impacts any and all 756 00:44:49,612 --> 00:44:50,119 essentially this impacts any and all review, 757 00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:55,339 any and all applications. Public notice that we just talked about. Okay. 758 00:44:55,339 --> 00:45:01,284 And then the differing requirements, you know, as such, whether published, posted, 759 00:45:01,284 --> 00:45:06,576 mailed, we have a list of the applications that are required to do those. 760 00:45:06,576 --> 00:45:12,521 So, you know, some are going to have to have, you know, annexations are published, 761 00:45:12,521 --> 00:45:15,348 posted, and mailed, so on and so forth. 762 00:45:15,348 --> 00:45:19,843 Rezonings and what we're ultimately calling development plans, 763 00:45:19,843 --> 00:45:23,613 would require those as well, and we'll get to those. 764 00:45:23,613 --> 00:45:28,397 The next portion then gets into essentially the different types of 765 00:45:28,397 --> 00:45:29,340 essentially the different types of applications. 766 00:45:29,340 --> 00:45:32,312 The real big one that we've talked about, 767 00:45:32,312 --> 00:45:36,155 and there was some supplementary information in that, 768 00:45:36,155 --> 00:45:41,882 is one of the things we're looking to do is implement modification of standard. 769 00:45:41,882 --> 00:45:45,724 We've talked about this now for a little bit of time, 770 00:45:45,724 --> 00:45:51,161 and so Essentially what it would be is that if you think of it kind of the— 771 00:45:51,161 --> 00:45:57,033 if you start from the very beginning of any type of development application that, 772 00:45:57,033 --> 00:46:02,688 you know, do the longest thing you could do, let's say you're not in the town, 773 00:46:02,688 --> 00:46:04,356 you need to be annexed. 774 00:46:04,356 --> 00:46:09,503 You need to be annexed, you would need to be— and you ask for rezoning. 775 00:46:09,503 --> 00:46:14,940 Then the question then becomes, are— is your proposed development by right? 776 00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:20,377 Does it follow whatever's Zoning classification that you have requested and 777 00:46:20,377 --> 00:46:20,522 classification that you have requested and in 778 00:46:20,522 --> 00:46:23,132 theory been granted, or does it not? 779 00:46:23,132 --> 00:46:27,482 Are there some modifications as to which you are requesting? 780 00:46:27,482 --> 00:46:31,977 If the answer is you are doing it by right, it is a site plan. 781 00:46:31,977 --> 00:46:37,849 It is a excuse me a site plan if you are non-resi do you have any non-residential 782 00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:37,994 non-resi do you have any non-residential or 783 00:46:37,994 --> 00:46:43,794 attached residential? If the answer to that question is yes, you're a site plan. 784 00:46:43,794 --> 00:46:49,376 If the answer is no. You're you're you're going through the platting process. 785 00:46:49,376 --> 00:46:54,088 You're going to plat different lots for to from one larger tract. 786 00:46:54,088 --> 00:46:58,220 Now going back up, if your development plan or excuse me, 787 00:46:58,220 --> 00:47:03,948 if you are asking for development and you say there there's some things in this 788 00:47:03,948 --> 00:47:09,602 zoning ordinance that I cannot or would like to discuss if I'm able to achieve 789 00:47:09,602 --> 00:47:09,965 like to discuss if I'm able to achieve those 790 00:47:09,965 --> 00:47:15,910 rules and regs. We're talking about the possibility of a modification of standard. 791 00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:18,737 Modification of standard is, I believe, 792 00:47:18,737 --> 00:47:23,087 a little bit different than the PUDs from the previous time. 793 00:47:23,087 --> 00:47:28,814 And what I mean by that is that how we've attempted to write— to draft this up, 794 00:47:28,814 --> 00:47:34,179 and the other document that we sent kind of gave into more detail on that. 795 00:47:34,179 --> 00:47:39,978 Is that there would be a list of things that you could ask for modifications of. 796 00:47:39,978 --> 00:47:42,661 And if we wanted to be more specific, 797 00:47:42,661 --> 00:47:48,388 we could say these are items or sections that you cannot ask for modifications. 798 00:47:48,388 --> 00:47:53,608 Staff has talked internally about density. You cannot vary from density. 799 00:47:53,608 --> 00:47:57,812 There's been discussions about height. So on and so forth. 800 00:47:57,812 --> 00:48:01,655 If you ask for a modification of standard, you would— 801 00:48:01,655 --> 00:48:07,164 very similar to the other processes that we have currently that come to this 802 00:48:07,164 --> 00:48:09,557 commission, get a recommendation, 803 00:48:09,557 --> 00:48:14,632 and then ultimately go to the Board of Commissioners for a resolution. 804 00:48:14,632 --> 00:48:20,431 So, and each one of those modifications of standard would be separately voted on 805 00:48:20,431 --> 00:48:26,159 from the development plan. This is how, you know, a sister city of ours handles 806 00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:26,376 you know, a sister city of ours handles it. 807 00:48:26,376 --> 00:48:26,593 Okay. 808 00:48:27,562 --> 00:48:30,405 Was, let's say for example, there is the— 809 00:48:30,405 --> 00:48:35,120 there is a site and they are asking for 3 modifications to standard. 810 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,627 One is for instead of 25— I'm making numbers up— 25-foot setback, 811 00:48:39,627 --> 00:48:41,984 front yard setbacks, they want 20. 812 00:48:41,984 --> 00:48:47,462 And another one, they want to throw away all the standards and the window signs 813 00:48:47,462 --> 00:48:53,078 because they want— they love window signs. And C, they want to do something else. 814 00:48:53,078 --> 00:48:53,175 Okay. 815 00:48:53,455 --> 00:48:54,987 Something unrelated. 816 00:48:54,987 --> 00:49:00,194 The Board of Commissioners could essentially say, on modification of 817 00:49:00,194 --> 00:49:01,036 essentially say, on modification of Standard 1, 818 00:49:01,036 --> 00:49:06,780 do I have a vote? Aye. All, you know, they pass it. Number 2, they deny it. 819 00:49:06,780 --> 00:49:10,992 And number modification of Standard 3, they approve it. 820 00:49:10,992 --> 00:49:16,735 Then they would go back to the original development plan with the requisite 821 00:49:16,735 --> 00:49:23,092 modification of standards and then approve or deny the entirety of the development. 822 00:49:23,092 --> 00:49:25,389 Plan. It's a different change. 823 00:49:25,389 --> 00:49:30,290 It is a little bit— it is different from how we currently do it. 824 00:49:30,290 --> 00:49:36,417 Currently we have site development plan, then you have to do a preliminary plat, 825 00:49:36,417 --> 00:49:38,331 even if you are by right. 826 00:49:38,331 --> 00:49:41,394 And, you know, there's development that, 827 00:49:41,394 --> 00:49:47,597 that down the street essentially that came in under CD-3 and had Site development 828 00:49:47,597 --> 00:49:50,737 plan, preliminary plat, and a final plat. 829 00:49:50,737 --> 00:49:56,404 This would, you know, if you were by right and you had no non-residential— 830 00:49:56,404 --> 00:49:57,556 Yes, correct. 831 00:49:57,556 --> 00:50:01,364 If you had no non-residential, no attached residential, 832 00:50:01,364 --> 00:50:06,419 you could go just a preliminary plat, which is, I think, fairly standard. 833 00:50:06,419 --> 00:50:10,643 That is a process, and maybe not sure if I explained it Well, 834 00:50:10,643 --> 00:50:15,836 but the idea is that it allows a little bit of flexibility but still enough 835 00:50:15,836 --> 00:50:16,321 bit of flexibility but still enough control 836 00:50:16,321 --> 00:50:21,653 that it goes ultimately to the Board of Commissioners as well for them to do. 837 00:50:21,653 --> 00:50:27,192 And it doesn't add— it's not an ordinance to do so, it is a resolution to do so, 838 00:50:27,192 --> 00:50:29,685 at least that's how I understand it. 839 00:50:29,685 --> 00:50:33,115 So you're discussing this bottom document, 840 00:50:33,115 --> 00:50:37,198 it was the last document, 10 pages on the list on, 841 00:50:37,198 --> 00:50:38,341 on our agenda. 842 00:50:38,470 --> 00:50:38,551 Yes. 843 00:50:38,551 --> 00:50:39,620 Item. It's the last one. 844 00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:39,815 Yes. 845 00:50:39,815 --> 00:50:43,873 Okay, then I do have some questions about this, 846 00:50:43,873 --> 00:50:46,981 if that's what we're discussing now. 847 00:50:46,981 --> 00:50:49,917 Okay, um, under the first section, 848 00:50:49,917 --> 00:50:55,616 it's got an A through E proposed modification will enhance design. 849 00:50:55,616 --> 00:51:01,314 Is that an all or none, or if a developer comes in and says, well, 850 00:51:01,314 --> 00:51:04,336 I've met this one, am I okay to go? 851 00:51:06,586 --> 00:51:07,404 Um, let me pull— let me pull it. 852 00:51:07,404 --> 00:51:10,498 Yeah, go ahead. Because it's confusing. 853 00:51:10,498 --> 00:51:17,084 You have a modification of standard allows the consideration of a request to modify 854 00:51:17,084 --> 00:51:23,194 a development standard of this ordinance where, and then you have a number of 855 00:51:23,194 --> 00:51:23,670 where, and then you have a number of items. 856 00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:26,923 But then on the 3rd page under Section 8, 857 00:51:26,923 --> 00:51:31,446 You have approval criteria for modification of standards, 858 00:51:31,446 --> 00:51:37,158 and no modification may be granted under this section unless— and again, 859 00:51:37,158 --> 00:51:43,030 there's a new list, A, B, C, D, E, and it's different from the front list. 860 00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:48,108 So it's kind of like, all right, so which one do I have to meet? 861 00:51:48,108 --> 00:51:51,397 One is more of you have the ability to request— and that's kind of— 862 00:51:51,397 --> 00:51:53,999 and it's highlighted, and there's a comment in there. 863 00:51:53,999 --> 00:51:57,240 Don't— I wouldn't pay too much attention to what those are, right? 864 00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,922 Because we may say, well, I think open space Should never be, or should be. 865 00:52:00,922 --> 00:52:03,720 That's just an example of different things, right? Where— 866 00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:05,030 Well, no, I'm above that. 867 00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:06,422 I don't think that's the question he's asking. 868 00:52:06,422 --> 00:52:08,477 I understand. I'm getting there. 869 00:52:08,477 --> 00:52:08,800 Yeah. 870 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:15,703 Those are the sections to which you can ask for that modification of 871 00:52:15,703 --> 00:52:20,169 standard. The second one in 8A through E is— 872 00:52:20,169 --> 00:52:27,275 I think it's more of a how Board of Zoning Appeals makes the decision. 873 00:52:27,275 --> 00:52:31,640 It has 3 state law requirements that, that, 874 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,715 that govern essentially what is an apt one or not. 875 00:52:36,715 --> 00:52:41,644 So it is an all or none, just like in the Board of Zoning Appeals. 876 00:52:41,644 --> 00:52:44,332 You've got to meet all the criteria. 877 00:52:44,332 --> 00:52:48,371 It does seem to be. Let's be sure that everyone's clear on this. 878 00:52:48,371 --> 00:52:51,653 Yeah, this is not what you are proposing that we do. 879 00:52:51,653 --> 00:52:56,891 This is a document that you're giving us to look at, to ask us, how does this look? 880 00:52:56,891 --> 00:52:58,658 What changes would you make? 881 00:52:58,658 --> 00:53:02,192 For example, if I said— I'm just using it as an example— 882 00:53:02,192 --> 00:53:06,988 there is no way we should ever allow a modification of standard for parking, 883 00:53:06,988 --> 00:53:10,711 we might all come to an agreement on that, or we might not. 884 00:53:10,711 --> 00:53:15,949 But ultimately, every bit of this document is something for us to be looking at and 885 00:53:15,949 --> 00:53:18,852 scrutinizing carefully. It's really important. 886 00:53:18,852 --> 00:53:23,396 I want to emphasize that because right now, there are no modification of 887 00:53:23,396 --> 00:53:24,027 now, there are no modification of standards. 888 00:53:24,027 --> 00:53:28,697 You either satisfy the requirements in the zoning ordinances or you don't. 889 00:53:28,697 --> 00:53:33,494 This says that a developer can come in and say, yeah, I like all this stuff, 890 00:53:33,494 --> 00:53:38,416 but you know what? I think it'd be really great if we didn't have to use those 891 00:53:38,416 --> 00:53:42,834 setbacks here. Here's why we want to do it. Here's what we want to do. 892 00:53:42,834 --> 00:53:47,567 A couple of things that I've noticed in I think there are 2 things that are 893 00:53:47,567 --> 00:53:50,596 important here. One is that it stipulates minor— 894 00:53:50,596 --> 00:53:53,499 grant minor relief from development standards. 895 00:53:53,499 --> 00:53:58,611 The key word being minor and how we define that. I think that really does matter. 896 00:53:58,611 --> 00:53:58,725 Yes. 897 00:53:58,725 --> 00:54:02,370 The other is that it does appear to me that as it's written, 898 00:54:02,370 --> 00:54:04,314 to Commissioner Adams' question, 899 00:54:04,314 --> 00:54:07,655 it seems to me that you do have to satisfy A through E. 900 00:54:07,655 --> 00:54:12,515 That any one of these that you want to change must at least satisfy A through E. 901 00:54:12,515 --> 00:54:15,856 And I'm a bit confused too about this, the second list. 902 00:54:15,856 --> 00:54:16,884 That's, that's what— 903 00:54:16,884 --> 00:54:18,698 yeah, yeah, exactly. 904 00:54:18,810 --> 00:54:21,429 That, that summed it up. Thank you. 905 00:54:21,429 --> 00:54:26,142 The— and it then has, you know, the Planning Commission review. 906 00:54:26,142 --> 00:54:30,931 It limits us to— we can make recommendations to the BOC That the 907 00:54:30,931 --> 00:54:32,053 recommendations to the BOC That the modification of 908 00:54:32,053 --> 00:54:37,665 standard will not be detrimental to public safety, health, general welfare, 909 00:54:37,665 --> 00:54:43,351 or be injurious to other property or improvements to a neighboring property. 910 00:54:43,351 --> 00:54:48,588 So we don't get to consider— I would, you know, all these other items, 911 00:54:48,588 --> 00:54:54,050 and I would think we would be the initial screening for that A through E, 912 00:54:54,050 --> 00:54:56,893 or maybe it's A through F, G, H, I, J. 913 00:54:56,893 --> 00:55:02,655 I think that's A through J if you combine those 2 lists on page 1 and page 3. 914 00:55:02,655 --> 00:55:08,266 But whatever, I mean, it kind of says to, to the Planning Commission, well, 915 00:55:08,266 --> 00:55:13,803 the only thing you need to be concerned about is public safety and health. 916 00:55:13,803 --> 00:55:14,925 The rest of it— 917 00:55:14,925 --> 00:55:16,035 Where does it say that? 918 00:55:16,035 --> 00:55:17,925 If you look at number 7. 919 00:55:17,925 --> 00:55:18,361 Okay. 920 00:55:18,361 --> 00:55:20,191 Planning Commission review. 921 00:55:20,191 --> 00:55:22,970 In reviewing a modification of standards, 922 00:55:22,970 --> 00:55:27,309 the Planning Commission shall make findings of fact establishing 923 00:55:27,309 --> 00:55:28,190 findings of fact establishing circumstances 924 00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:30,698 justifying the need for modification. 925 00:55:30,698 --> 00:55:34,901 Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the Board of 926 00:55:34,901 --> 00:55:36,121 recommendation to the Board of Commissioners that 927 00:55:36,121 --> 00:55:41,205 the modification standard will not be detrimental to public health, safety, 928 00:55:41,205 --> 00:55:41,747 detrimental to public health, safety, general— 929 00:55:41,747 --> 00:55:47,170 and, and that's it. And I would think we would be wanting to look at those other 930 00:55:47,170 --> 00:55:50,424 criteria even before the Board of Commissioners. 931 00:55:50,424 --> 00:55:54,091 Well, interestingly enough, The second one— no, go ahead. 932 00:55:54,091 --> 00:55:57,115 The Board of Commissioners action is identical. 933 00:55:57,115 --> 00:56:02,133 It may be that the wording— maybe that the wording really needs to be broader. 934 00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:04,606 That's, that's it. I just think we— yeah. 935 00:56:04,606 --> 00:56:10,168 Well, I think that, you know, Charles, are we able to, in our capacity, 936 00:56:10,168 --> 00:56:12,910 to make those other determinations, 937 00:56:12,910 --> 00:56:18,863 or are we limited only to findings of fact such as public health and safety, 938 00:56:18,863 --> 00:56:22,780 things No, you can go through both the lists that— 939 00:56:22,780 --> 00:56:25,835 In the capacity that we are doing here? 940 00:56:25,835 --> 00:56:29,311 Yeah, because you're not actually approving anything. You're recommending. 941 00:56:29,311 --> 00:56:34,726 Correct. We will be a recommending body when someone 942 00:56:34,726 --> 00:56:40,246 requests— when a developer requests a modification to 943 00:56:40,246 --> 00:56:41,287 standards. 944 00:56:43,146 --> 00:56:48,805 Is there any issue— I know this discussion came up last week about the monuments for 945 00:56:48,805 --> 00:56:54,262 communities, and there was a concern that we were trying to think of more nuanced 946 00:56:54,262 --> 00:56:57,024 ways, I guess, is the best way to put it, 947 00:56:57,024 --> 00:57:02,077 to have these kind of really nice monuments like McFarland Woods is putting 948 00:57:02,077 --> 00:57:02,548 monuments like McFarland Woods is putting in that 949 00:57:02,548 --> 00:57:06,186 according to our new zoning ordinance does not comply. 950 00:57:06,186 --> 00:57:11,508 So we said, well, is there a way we could Have it where we can use judgment and 951 00:57:11,508 --> 00:57:13,395 approve something like that? 952 00:57:13,395 --> 00:57:15,551 And the consensus was, well, no, 953 00:57:15,551 --> 00:57:19,458 because then it's very much opening ourselves up to, well, 954 00:57:19,458 --> 00:57:24,106 why is that okay based on an ordinance approved and someone else can, 955 00:57:24,106 --> 00:57:29,092 can request a variance and we go, no, we're not going to approve that one? 956 00:57:29,092 --> 00:57:31,382 Like, does that— And, and Charles, 957 00:57:31,382 --> 00:57:36,098 I know your stance is it's a recommendation and not Really an approval 958 00:57:36,098 --> 00:57:36,570 recommendation and not Really an approval denial, 959 00:57:36,570 --> 00:57:42,094 but does that cause us legal issues where we could potentially, for one applicant, 960 00:57:42,094 --> 00:57:47,753 approve something that we would then turn around and deny for another applicant with 961 00:57:47,753 --> 00:57:51,593 no real statute we're citing other than we don't like it? 962 00:57:51,593 --> 00:57:53,658 I think it's a great— I mean, we had— 963 00:57:53,658 --> 00:57:56,392 that's exactly what we talked about last meeting. 964 00:57:56,392 --> 00:58:00,298 Yeah, that's the tricky part of even, you know, we were joking, right, 965 00:58:00,298 --> 00:58:03,758 about If they want to be that bougie, let them be that bougie. 966 00:58:03,758 --> 00:58:06,660 And it was like, well, they can't put an obelisk in. 967 00:58:06,660 --> 00:58:08,900 Yeah. All right. 968 00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:13,340 And, you know, so it is as firm as we can be because again, for all of us, 969 00:58:13,340 --> 00:58:17,780 we might all move to Bora Bora and we don't know who's going to sit in our 970 00:58:17,780 --> 00:58:18,140 don't know who's going to sit in our seats. 971 00:58:18,140 --> 00:58:21,320 So if we leave it open, we don't know who's going to— 972 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,924 Charles, it looks like you're going to say something. Is that— is that a challenge? 973 00:58:24,924 --> 00:58:26,140 Is that a cause for concern? 974 00:58:26,140 --> 00:58:27,587 Depends on context. I mean, 975 00:58:27,587 --> 00:58:31,822 I can't tell you one way or the other right now if you deny one thing and allow 976 00:58:31,822 --> 00:58:32,894 another thing. It's— 977 00:58:32,894 --> 00:58:33,056 Yeah. 978 00:58:35,548 --> 00:58:38,950 But does that— I guess earlier you said since it's a recommendation and not an 979 00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:40,694 approval or denial, it shouldn't matter. 980 00:58:40,694 --> 00:58:44,182 Well, at some point it would matter. 981 00:58:44,247 --> 00:58:50,659 I mean, because it's got to still go up to the BOC. But at this body, I mean, no. 982 00:58:53,659 --> 00:58:58,159 I would just— to continue on just real quickly, and then I'm, I'm done. 983 00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:01,709 On the number 3, the standards may be considered height. 984 00:59:01,709 --> 00:59:06,716 I would have a real problem with somebody being able to go more than 3 stories. 985 00:59:06,716 --> 00:59:10,328 I think the community has loudly said that over and over, 986 00:59:10,328 --> 00:59:14,892 and we've got it within our, our new zoning ordinances limiting it to 3. 987 00:59:14,892 --> 00:59:16,846 Uh, density. 988 00:59:18,329 --> 00:59:21,897 I don't think we need to do anything with density. 989 00:59:21,897 --> 00:59:24,894 We've got reasonable densities throughout. 990 00:59:24,894 --> 00:59:30,389 I think the Town Square Program that when we originally started talking about 991 00:59:30,389 --> 00:59:31,816 character districts, 992 00:59:31,816 --> 00:59:37,453 we had a character district of 5 with 24 density that we reduced to 18 that was 993 00:59:37,453 --> 00:59:40,094 eventually part of the agreement Yes. 994 00:59:40,094 --> 00:59:44,233 With Town Square and they've actually reduced the density. 995 00:59:44,233 --> 00:59:50,084 So I think that— I don't think there's a need for us to give that much wiggle room 996 00:59:50,084 --> 00:59:55,650 because I think every developer will come in and go, well, I really need more. 997 00:59:55,650 --> 00:59:59,290 They're always going to want more. And so that one. 998 00:59:59,290 --> 01:00:04,998 And I would want to take a look at open space because we've got some percentages 999 01:00:04,998 --> 01:00:10,779 where we're wanting to maintain our open space and I don't know how much We would 1000 01:00:10,779 --> 01:00:10,921 space and I don't know how much We would be 1001 01:00:10,921 --> 01:00:16,202 wanting to take a look at those, but those would be my 3 concerns on this. 1002 01:00:16,202 --> 01:00:20,666 There are some ways, as I understood it from our meeting yesterday, 1003 01:00:20,666 --> 01:00:22,665 that using the height example, 1004 01:00:22,665 --> 01:00:28,129 that we could put some parameters that the word height alone need not stand alone. 1005 01:00:28,129 --> 01:00:33,460 That in effect, you could say you can request a modification of standard related 1006 01:00:33,460 --> 01:00:33,593 request a modification of standard related to 1007 01:00:33,593 --> 01:00:36,258 height, but it will not exceed 4 floors. 1008 01:00:36,258 --> 01:00:40,856 Using that as an example, and that's one way to handle this, correct? 1009 01:00:40,856 --> 01:00:45,625 Yes. And this may go in a different direction, so stop me if it— 1010 01:00:45,625 --> 01:00:51,140 but one of the notes, and this was, I thought, a pretty good segue for it, 1011 01:00:51,140 --> 01:00:55,835 one of the notes that we wanted to also ask this board was the— 1012 01:00:55,835 --> 01:01:00,008 within the modification of standard, whatever we choose, 1013 01:01:00,008 --> 01:01:05,374 let's kind of put that over here, and whatever we say is allowable to be 1014 01:01:05,374 --> 01:01:06,044 whatever we say is allowable to be modified. 1015 01:01:06,044 --> 01:01:11,037 If we say you can modify this, let's use height as just an example, 1016 01:01:11,037 --> 01:01:14,838 do we want to give additional parameters around it, 1017 01:01:14,838 --> 01:01:17,297 I think was kind of the question. 1018 01:01:17,297 --> 01:01:17,831 Yes. 1019 01:01:17,831 --> 01:01:23,392 Where, yes, you could ask for modification of— maybe height's a bad one. 1020 01:01:23,392 --> 01:01:28,413 Let's do setbacks or something that's— A little less troublesome. 1021 01:01:28,413 --> 01:01:34,129 If you wanted to do a setback, you could ask for modification of standard, 1022 01:01:34,129 --> 01:01:39,999 but it could only be 50% of the existing standard, something to that nature. 1023 01:01:39,999 --> 01:01:40,497 Yeah. 1024 01:01:40,497 --> 01:01:44,308 And that was even one that staff has kind of gone back and forth. 1025 01:01:44,308 --> 01:01:47,240 Again, to my point of we haven't really come to a— 1026 01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,755 a lot of times we have generally come to a consensus other than a few things, 1027 01:01:51,755 --> 01:01:55,625 but this is a more troublesome article, and so there's a lot more. 1028 01:01:55,625 --> 01:02:00,022 So one of the questions that we've had batted back and forth internally was 1029 01:02:00,022 --> 01:02:00,433 batted back and forth internally was within— 1030 01:02:00,433 --> 01:02:04,596 and I'd almost like to go back to the beginning— do we even want these? 1031 01:02:04,596 --> 01:02:06,003 But if we do want these, 1032 01:02:06,003 --> 01:02:10,166 and if modification to standard is something continuing that we want to 1033 01:02:10,166 --> 01:02:10,811 something continuing that we want to continue to 1034 01:02:10,811 --> 01:02:15,326 talk about and think about, if yes, then which modifications are appropriate? 1035 01:02:15,326 --> 01:02:19,958 And from there, are there any additional guardrail or whatever word you want to 1036 01:02:19,958 --> 01:02:20,192 guardrail or whatever word you want to put, 1037 01:02:20,192 --> 01:02:23,886 additional standards Standards that we kind of place that, yes, 1038 01:02:23,886 --> 01:02:26,701 you may ask for a modification of standard of X, 1039 01:02:26,701 --> 01:02:30,512 but it can only be varied or changed by a percentage amount of Y. 1040 01:02:30,512 --> 01:02:34,131 When you raise the question— I'm sorry, please. 1041 01:02:34,131 --> 01:02:34,405 Go ahead. 1042 01:02:34,405 --> 01:02:38,849 When you raise the question, do we want modification of standards, 1043 01:02:38,849 --> 01:02:40,667 it probably helps, I think, 1044 01:02:40,667 --> 01:02:44,640 to point out for us what are the advantages to having them, 1045 01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:49,529 what are the disadvantages. 1046 01:02:52,529 --> 01:02:52,736 Sir? 1047 01:02:52,736 --> 01:02:56,396 To— even if we just talk about window signs, 1048 01:02:56,396 --> 01:03:02,302 a fairly benign minor thing in the totality of the world, to be honest, 1049 01:03:02,302 --> 01:03:08,458 there are so many variables that it is impossible to regulate it with any— 1050 01:03:08,458 --> 01:03:15,280 and it is I should back that up a little bit. It is very difficult to regulate it. 1051 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:21,602 There will always be a what about. What about this one? What about that one? 1052 01:03:21,602 --> 01:03:27,092 Well, they didn't think of this. Or what about this other portion? 1053 01:03:27,092 --> 01:03:32,998 A minor amount of flexibility, an amount of flexibility can be helpful. 1054 01:03:32,998 --> 01:03:37,407 Can be helpful to say the rigidity of rules and regu— 1055 01:03:37,407 --> 01:03:43,813 and of these rules and regs when on certain things can be permissible as long 1056 01:03:43,813 --> 01:03:44,229 certain things can be permissible as long as it 1057 01:03:44,229 --> 01:03:46,890 then follows a path of approval. 1058 01:03:46,890 --> 01:03:53,296 And, and the path we've asked is that it goes ultimately to the fully elected 1059 01:03:53,296 --> 01:03:53,795 goes ultimately to the fully elected board. 1060 01:03:53,795 --> 01:03:58,620 Um, so there is a cost, so to speak, for that flexibility. 1061 01:03:58,620 --> 01:04:03,528 You can do by right and you can do this path, it's quicker, 1062 01:04:03,528 --> 01:04:08,519 or you can ask for flexibility and it takes a little longer. 1063 01:04:09,624 --> 01:04:14,693 Does a modification of standards ultimately say, just the existence of one, 1064 01:04:14,693 --> 01:04:17,261 that when you write zoning ordinances, 1065 01:04:17,261 --> 01:04:20,437 all the requirements and how detailed they are, 1066 01:04:20,437 --> 01:04:24,762 that it's not likely that you can get it right 100% of the time? 1067 01:04:24,762 --> 01:04:29,696 And that as time goes on, certain things change, even materials, building 1068 01:04:29,696 --> 01:04:30,372 change, even materials, building materials, 1069 01:04:30,372 --> 01:04:32,737 costs, there are lots of variables. 1070 01:04:32,737 --> 01:04:34,967 Which would lend to the argument, 1071 01:04:34,967 --> 01:04:40,509 which would favor the argument that that's why you have modifications of standard, 1072 01:04:40,509 --> 01:04:44,226 because what we have right now leaves zero flexibility. 1073 01:04:44,226 --> 01:04:44,563 Agreed. 1074 01:04:44,563 --> 01:04:47,180 And we have heard from developers that it's a struggle. 1075 01:04:47,180 --> 01:04:52,600 Agreed. And then it is up to ultimately this Commission and then the Board to say 1076 01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:55,611 if, you know, kind of follow that train back, 1077 01:04:55,611 --> 01:05:00,629 is that if modifications of standards are appropriate, is the path, is the, 1078 01:05:00,629 --> 01:05:04,242 you know, all the Accoutrements that go along with it. 1079 01:05:04,242 --> 01:05:08,457 What we've asked for are these six, seven, eight, ten, fifteen, 1080 01:05:08,457 --> 01:05:13,074 a hundred things you can ask for appropriate, and if so, what amount? 1081 01:05:13,074 --> 01:05:17,155 And if so, what? But but to answer your question, absolutely, 1082 01:05:17,155 --> 01:05:20,567 it is the the amount of breadth that this document, 1083 01:05:20,567 --> 01:05:23,846 even with being four hundred and sixty-one pages, 1084 01:05:23,846 --> 01:05:27,191 that attempts to cover is anything and everything. 1085 01:05:27,191 --> 01:05:30,470 And so this allows to the— there will be various— 1086 01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:32,064 If I may do a quick poll, 1087 01:05:32,064 --> 01:05:37,036 is there anyone on the Commission at this point who feels that modification of 1088 01:05:37,036 --> 01:05:41,626 standards is not something we should be discussing, we don't need these? 1089 01:05:41,626 --> 01:05:46,535 So we should proceed then on the basis that we do think that these are a good 1090 01:05:46,535 --> 01:05:46,790 that we do think that these are a good idea 1091 01:05:46,790 --> 01:05:51,890 and our real task here is to determine which items make the most sense and under 1092 01:05:51,890 --> 01:05:53,293 Under what conditions? 1093 01:05:53,293 --> 01:05:57,628 Like, I have, for example, some concerns about using the word minor. 1094 01:05:57,628 --> 01:05:59,732 I think it's very hard to define. 1095 01:05:59,732 --> 01:06:04,895 I think it's somewhat in the eye of the beholder, and there are some risks there. 1096 01:06:04,895 --> 01:06:10,059 We should also acknowledge the fact that in approving modifications of standards, 1097 01:06:10,059 --> 01:06:12,035 there are some real risks here. 1098 01:06:12,035 --> 01:06:17,072 You know, you— if I'm a developer and I see an opportunity to make some changes 1099 01:06:17,072 --> 01:06:17,327 see an opportunity to make some changes here 1100 01:06:17,327 --> 01:06:21,088 that would reduce Reduce my costs, make my build go faster. 1101 01:06:21,088 --> 01:06:25,614 There's no harm in me asking, but it could bog us down pretty severely. 1102 01:06:25,614 --> 01:06:30,141 And then there's also the risk that you get into, maybe without trying, 1103 01:06:30,141 --> 01:06:35,049 but you can get into a situation where you're heading towards a quid pro quo. 1104 01:06:35,049 --> 01:06:39,002 Well, if you want to do that, what are you going to do for us? 1105 01:06:39,002 --> 01:06:39,131 Yeah. 1106 01:06:39,131 --> 01:06:41,734 I think that's a very slippery slope, 1107 01:06:41,734 --> 01:06:46,518 one that we really should try our best to protect That said, though, 1108 01:06:46,518 --> 01:06:52,357 I think it would be great to walk through this document and let everyone make their 1109 01:06:52,357 --> 01:06:57,070 thoughts known and any recommendations or suggestions that we have. 1110 01:06:57,070 --> 01:07:02,714 We can do that. We haven't even really come to a full consensus as staff on this 1111 01:07:02,714 --> 01:07:06,170 either, but it doesn't mean that I don't want to— 1112 01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:10,050 if there are any very large items or Items on number 3, 1113 01:07:10,050 --> 01:07:15,270 the ones that are highlighted, like Commissioner Adams mentioned with open 1114 01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:15,694 Commissioner Adams mentioned with open space, 1115 01:07:15,694 --> 01:07:17,104 height, and density. 1116 01:07:17,104 --> 01:07:23,030 If there's any other ones that, that, that say, whoa, I really want to talk about X, 1117 01:07:23,030 --> 01:07:26,064 Y, and Z, that'll help guide our direction. 1118 01:07:26,064 --> 01:07:31,072 So I may say or recommend that, that the discussion be mainly on those. 1119 01:07:31,072 --> 01:07:36,575 Let's get the big ones in terms of if there's at least a general acceptance to 1120 01:07:36,575 --> 01:07:36,927 there's at least a general acceptance to let's 1121 01:07:36,927 --> 01:07:41,301 continue to discuss When we discuss modifications to standard, 1122 01:07:41,301 --> 01:07:46,310 which of these are either the non-negotiables or the— negotiable is the 1123 01:07:46,310 --> 01:07:47,086 non-negotiables or the— negotiable is the wrong word, 1124 01:07:47,086 --> 01:07:48,426 but the allowables? 1125 01:07:48,426 --> 01:07:52,599 I hate to say this, but for example, just the first one, parking. 1126 01:07:52,599 --> 01:07:55,231 I didn't memorize what the standards are. 1127 01:07:55,231 --> 01:07:59,789 I don't know what the standards are for parking off the top of my head. 1128 01:07:59,789 --> 01:08:04,282 I'd have to go look at that, but that might be a great place to start. 1129 01:08:04,282 --> 01:08:06,272 for us to be able to say, yeah, 1130 01:08:06,272 --> 01:08:10,381 we probably should be able to allow for some room there, or not. 1131 01:08:10,381 --> 01:08:12,173 Right. And just a thought. 1132 01:08:12,173 --> 01:08:16,861 And even with parking, if you recall back to Article 5, we took— we, 1133 01:08:16,861 --> 01:08:21,549 we kind of have already— we built that in a little bit, essentially, 1134 01:08:21,549 --> 01:08:26,236 in a very kind of similar context where we said we were, instead of, 1135 01:08:26,236 --> 01:08:31,820 of stating thou shalt have for a— I mean, think of the most obscure use possible, 1136 01:08:31,820 --> 01:08:35,957 4 spaces per 100 square foot of a textile mill or, you know, 1137 01:08:35,957 --> 01:08:40,575 something of that nature. We said these are the ones we care about. 1138 01:08:40,575 --> 01:08:45,952 These are the, the big land uses that, that we have standards for, and we, we— 1139 01:08:45,952 --> 01:08:48,158 these are the important pillars. 1140 01:08:48,158 --> 01:08:52,088 The other ones, show your work, show us how you got here, 1141 01:08:52,088 --> 01:08:55,397 and then we can present it essentially in a way. 1142 01:08:55,397 --> 01:09:00,774 Now, whether or not that kind of falls into the same category as this, that'll 1143 01:09:00,774 --> 01:09:00,981 into the same category as this, that'll be— 1144 01:09:00,981 --> 01:09:06,082 that's a great example of one that something we talked about in Article 5. 1145 01:09:06,082 --> 01:09:06,579 Yep. 1146 01:09:06,579 --> 01:09:11,336 And then how that relates to our understanding of, of, of the systems now. 1147 01:09:11,336 --> 01:09:14,421 But I think parking is one that could, you know, 1148 01:09:14,421 --> 01:09:18,406 I may advocate that for it to remain because, for example, if, 1149 01:09:18,406 --> 01:09:22,520 if they say 20 parking spaces is appropriate and you all say no, 1150 01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:27,084 or Or something to that— maybe that one gets a little more contentious, 1151 01:09:27,084 --> 01:09:32,162 but essentially, could they ask for a modification of standard to ask for that? 1152 01:09:32,162 --> 01:09:36,715 For example, where I could see— and since we're talking parking, 1153 01:09:36,715 --> 01:09:41,908 I've got a warehouse with so many square feet, and the standard is, what, 1154 01:09:41,908 --> 01:09:45,678 4 spaces per 1,000 or whatever the square footage is. 1155 01:09:45,678 --> 01:09:51,084 The owner or the whoever comes back or the guy who's building it says, look, 1156 01:09:51,084 --> 01:09:56,704 this is going to be a situation where there's only going to be 5 people here at 1157 01:09:56,704 --> 01:09:56,917 there's only going to be 5 people here at any 1158 01:09:56,917 --> 01:10:01,541 one time because that's what this whole building is designed for. 1159 01:10:01,541 --> 01:10:03,604 There just won't be any more. 1160 01:10:03,604 --> 01:10:09,437 Can I use this parking space to pull my trucks into rather than having a dedicated 1161 01:10:09,437 --> 01:10:14,274 parking spot or, you know, to load or unload or something like that? 1162 01:10:14,274 --> 01:10:19,183 That makes sense to It's when they start kind of like Len was saying, 1163 01:10:19,183 --> 01:10:24,802 when they start getting into things like, well, you know, we want to— you know, 1164 01:10:24,802 --> 01:10:26,225 I'm like on density. 1165 01:10:26,225 --> 01:10:29,853 Well, if we just had 5 more, you know, or whatever, 1166 01:10:29,853 --> 01:10:33,552 and you start getting into the wheeling and dealing. 1167 01:10:33,552 --> 01:10:39,243 And that, I think, was one of the issues when we first developed this new zoning 1168 01:10:39,243 --> 01:10:39,456 when we first developed this new zoning was 1169 01:10:39,456 --> 01:10:41,590 to try to get away from, well, 1170 01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:45,930 you give us this and then you give us 10 acres here for that, 1171 01:10:45,930 --> 01:10:50,340 and trying to avoid all of that, uh, that we need to stick to. 1172 01:10:50,340 --> 01:10:54,751 But I think there are— the, the word is minimum, minor relief, 1173 01:10:54,751 --> 01:11:00,086 and that's the question I think that probably for all of these needs to get 1174 01:11:00,086 --> 01:11:04,923 identified. What's minor relief? And I agree with, with Len on that. 1175 01:11:04,923 --> 01:11:09,100 Yes, because I could say minors— I'm only changing one thing. 1176 01:11:09,100 --> 01:11:13,277 Or minor is I'm just fudging every single thing across, like, 1177 01:11:13,277 --> 01:11:14,509 just a little bit. 1178 01:11:14,509 --> 01:11:18,852 Yeah, I would almost ask— Len has brought up guardrails. Yeah. Okay. 1179 01:11:18,852 --> 01:11:24,088 So we could— is there an agreement about guardrail limitations to the modification 1180 01:11:24,088 --> 01:11:27,792 of standards, or is it something we can come and show you? 1181 01:11:27,792 --> 01:11:31,364 I think there should be limitations, but I'm— how do you— 1182 01:11:31,364 --> 01:11:33,808 I feel like this is too open, but like, 1183 01:11:33,808 --> 01:11:38,320 I'm almost thinking we shouldn't say here's the things you could modify. 1184 01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,140 If we're allowing a modification of standard, 1185 01:11:41,140 --> 01:11:45,025 it could say here's examples of things that could be modified, 1186 01:11:45,025 --> 01:11:47,406 but this shouldn't be a holistic list. 1187 01:11:47,406 --> 01:11:47,519 Yeah. 1188 01:11:47,519 --> 01:11:51,732 Because I know there was things when I was building that, like, I was fine, 1189 01:11:51,732 --> 01:11:55,721 but this one thing just— we can't figure out how to fit it in the code. 1190 01:11:55,721 --> 01:12:00,103 But it could be some oddball thing that we might run into Once every 10 years. 1191 01:12:00,103 --> 01:12:04,653 And I don't want us to limit ourselves of, well, if only it was this other thing, 1192 01:12:04,653 --> 01:12:06,282 we could have done it, right? 1193 01:12:06,282 --> 01:12:09,573 I agree. Um, I don't think we should have listed anything. 1194 01:12:09,573 --> 01:12:12,297 We can always say no, right? Yeah, modification. 1195 01:12:12,297 --> 01:12:15,588 Because here's the deal, there's new techniques that come, 1196 01:12:15,588 --> 01:12:17,460 there's stuff that gets outdated. 1197 01:12:17,460 --> 01:12:21,149 I grease containment systems, which it's the latest and greatest, 1198 01:12:21,149 --> 01:12:25,461 but yet I can't put them in because it's archaic, because it's 30 years old, 1199 01:12:25,461 --> 01:12:27,788 because they wrote the laws 30 years ago. 1200 01:12:27,788 --> 01:12:32,100 So things are always going to progress with building materials and so forth. 1201 01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:34,107 Would, would there be— well, 1202 01:12:34,107 --> 01:12:38,981 that was one of the discussion points even internally amongst staff, 1203 01:12:38,981 --> 01:12:42,708 was we should have some limitations to these things. 1204 01:12:42,708 --> 01:12:48,227 And then the other side of it essentially said they're already asking for the 1205 01:12:48,227 --> 01:12:52,026 modification, they're asking for the thing to modify. 1206 01:12:52,026 --> 01:12:56,112 And so For example, at the BZA level, the variance level, 1207 01:12:56,112 --> 01:13:00,627 there's no limits to your variance. You can ask for a variance. 1208 01:13:00,627 --> 01:13:06,361 And, and you want to change your front yard setback from the required 1,000 feet 1209 01:13:06,361 --> 01:13:06,505 yard setback from the required 1,000 feet to 1210 01:13:06,505 --> 01:13:11,952 1? Yeah, they probably— more than likely going to say no, but there's not a, 1211 01:13:11,952 --> 01:13:17,471 a rule and regulation from either the state or the municipality that says you 1212 01:13:17,471 --> 01:13:17,758 state or the municipality that says you must 1213 01:13:17,758 --> 01:13:21,987 limit your request for the exception or whatever it may be. 1214 01:13:21,987 --> 01:13:25,786 So what if I— what if I maybe turned it a little bit? 1215 01:13:25,786 --> 01:13:31,305 What if instead of listing the things in which a modification may be allowed, 1216 01:13:31,305 --> 01:13:36,394 are there any non-negotiable— in no way are we interested in something? 1217 01:13:36,394 --> 01:13:40,991 So, I mean, for some food for thought, like I've just been looking, right? 1218 01:13:40,991 --> 01:13:43,475 'Cause we're on this conversation today. 1219 01:13:43,475 --> 01:13:48,072 I like the idea that I don't know that we— I agree not to not have a list, 1220 01:13:48,072 --> 01:13:52,917 number one. And number two is I think we can at least have categories and talk 1221 01:13:52,917 --> 01:13:53,227 can at least have categories and talk about 1222 01:13:53,227 --> 01:13:56,395 things we encourage and things we would discourage, 1223 01:13:56,395 --> 01:14:01,489 is what I found in one of the guidelines that I've been able to look at that seems 1224 01:14:01,489 --> 01:14:03,725 to make— it seems applicable for us. 1225 01:14:03,725 --> 01:14:08,135 Because we can't cover everything, but we have to have some guidelines. 1226 01:14:08,135 --> 01:14:08,322 Yeah. 1227 01:14:09,098 --> 01:14:13,697 And I'm wondering if that is a way to write it so that we are 1228 01:14:13,697 --> 01:14:18,146 open to what people may bring, but we have some way to say— 1229 01:14:18,146 --> 01:14:25,110 The only issue I would have with that is that the zoning ordinance is essentially a 1230 01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:29,724 rulebook, and it almost has to be very binary in a way. 1231 01:14:29,724 --> 01:14:32,828 We, we could add those, those things. 1232 01:14:32,828 --> 01:14:38,618 Like, these are things that we imagine they would be, but they would— 1233 01:14:38,618 --> 01:14:44,994 at least as they would not really have any weight. They would be additional. 1234 01:14:44,994 --> 01:14:50,951 Like, it would need to say, you know, we need to say you shall do this. 1235 01:14:50,951 --> 01:14:56,656 And, and the zoning ordinance is your rule book, is how I've always— 1236 01:14:56,656 --> 01:14:56,851 Mm-hmm. 1237 01:14:56,851 --> 01:15:02,596 Your comp plan or some of these other things can be more of the Inspirational or 1238 01:15:02,596 --> 01:15:04,248 aspirational documents. 1239 01:15:04,248 --> 01:15:09,203 And but the zoning ordinance is your thou shalt do 25 feet, you know, 1240 01:15:09,203 --> 01:15:10,783 or whatever it may be. 1241 01:15:10,783 --> 01:15:15,666 So understanding that, and we, we could, we could create guidelines, 1242 01:15:15,666 --> 01:15:17,964 but they would be unenforceable. 1243 01:15:17,964 --> 01:15:18,462 Mm-hmm. 1244 01:15:18,462 --> 01:15:22,212 So, right, it would say, what can you ask a modification— 1245 01:15:22,212 --> 01:15:25,435 what can you ask a modification of standard from? 1246 01:15:25,435 --> 01:15:29,711 The answer is anything, for example. Then the answer is anything. 1247 01:15:29,711 --> 01:15:33,657 We would recommend you do not do XYZ, but you can still ask. 1248 01:15:33,657 --> 01:15:38,920 And that would be more of a, almost an administrative, put it on the website or, 1249 01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:43,130 or discuss with something like that is kind of what I would say. 1250 01:15:43,130 --> 01:15:45,983 Yeah, because I could see, you know, you could justify any— like, 1251 01:15:45,983 --> 01:15:48,222 there's always something you can find for a reason. 1252 01:15:48,334 --> 01:15:53,636 So I think limiting what they can ask for, you already have You kind of do that, 1253 01:15:53,636 --> 01:15:55,160 right, in 1A through E? 1254 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:56,027 Yep. 1255 01:15:56,027 --> 01:15:57,922 You're kind of already laying out— 1256 01:15:57,922 --> 01:15:58,307 Yeah. 1257 01:15:58,307 --> 01:16:01,220 —things you cannot ask or we would not accept. 1258 01:16:01,220 --> 01:16:06,349 Maybe we can expand that list if you want to, but you're already generally doing— 1259 01:16:06,349 --> 01:16:10,971 like, doesn't, you know, diminish the ability of town to provide service, 1260 01:16:10,971 --> 01:16:14,011 doesn't impact future plans or things like that. 1261 01:16:14,011 --> 01:16:19,203 So you're already kind of saying these are things you cannot ask for modification. 1262 01:16:19,203 --> 01:16:22,496 And I agree, we wouldn't be able to guess, you know, 1263 01:16:22,496 --> 01:16:27,055 like a list of everything you can ask for. So I agree, don't put a list. 1264 01:16:27,055 --> 01:16:29,635 Like, for example, one statement that— 1265 01:16:29,635 --> 01:16:34,795 or one kind of floating thought that has been mentioned internally has been, 1266 01:16:34,795 --> 01:16:39,548 you know, are there things within Article 5— let's just pick that one, 1267 01:16:39,548 --> 01:16:41,856 which is transportation— you know, 1268 01:16:41,856 --> 01:16:46,541 do we say you can ask for modifications to standard within Article 5? 1269 01:16:46,541 --> 01:16:50,886 Article 6, Article 7. Do you limit it in terms of full articles? 1270 01:16:50,886 --> 01:16:55,435 But then you're essentially just— I thought I'd throw it out there. 1271 01:16:55,435 --> 01:16:59,170 I mean, I'm almost hearing it's kind of split in a way. 1272 01:16:59,170 --> 01:17:04,669 So what I'm thinking is we will come back with revisions to this and either we'll 1273 01:17:04,669 --> 01:17:09,626 show you what we got, is— unless I'm reading it wrong. No, I think that's 1274 01:17:09,626 --> 01:17:10,033 reading it wrong. No, I think that's right. 1275 01:17:10,412 --> 01:17:16,302 Regardless of whether we have a list, the guiding principle is in those 5 items. 1276 01:17:16,302 --> 01:17:22,339 You can ask for anything you want, but if it doesn't meet or satisfy these things, 1277 01:17:22,339 --> 01:17:23,738 it's not happening. 1278 01:17:23,738 --> 01:17:27,228 Sure. And we could— it could meet those things and we could still say no. 1279 01:17:27,228 --> 01:17:29,190 Right. But we could say yes. 1280 01:17:29,190 --> 01:17:34,447 And I guess part of, you know, if I was going to plant my flag on anything, 1281 01:17:34,447 --> 01:17:38,162 it would just be density. I can look at other things. 1282 01:17:38,162 --> 01:17:42,297 But I think density is one of those. Don't even come to us. 1283 01:17:42,297 --> 01:17:47,063 We've set our density because what it will become is a used car lot. 1284 01:17:47,063 --> 01:17:49,446 Well, we want to increase density. 1285 01:17:49,446 --> 01:17:52,249 Well, they're not going to want to go 5, 1286 01:17:52,249 --> 01:17:57,646 but let's ask 5 and maybe we can come to doing 3 more and just say, you know, 1287 01:17:57,646 --> 01:18:02,412 I think that's one that I would definitely go, no, it is what it is. 1288 01:18:02,412 --> 01:18:02,541 Yes. 1289 01:18:03,504 --> 01:18:05,998 We're not going to be changing that. 1290 01:18:05,998 --> 01:18:10,846 Things like lot size because there's a heritage tree in the middle of, 1291 01:18:10,846 --> 01:18:14,933 of something and somebody's saying, can I— I've got 2 lots, 1292 01:18:14,933 --> 01:18:20,335 if I can make them a little bit less than a quarter of an acre rather than the 1293 01:18:20,335 --> 01:18:25,946 required quarter acre to get so I don't have to cut this tree down or work around 1294 01:18:25,946 --> 01:18:26,569 whatever. 1295 01:18:26,569 --> 01:18:26,764 Yeah. 1296 01:18:28,322 --> 01:18:31,937 I think those are the kinds of things that I would consider minor. 1297 01:18:31,937 --> 01:18:36,647 But so just as a thought experiment here, so we're looking at— 1298 01:18:36,647 --> 01:18:42,268 let's look at the piece of property that just came in, asked for rezoning, 1299 01:18:42,268 --> 01:18:43,939 9.22 acres, let's say. 1300 01:18:43,939 --> 01:18:48,649 And let's say they gifted us those 10 and they had 9.22 acres. 1301 01:18:48,649 --> 01:18:53,662 Right now it's a CD-2. Under the new— that's 0.5 units per 1 acre. 1302 01:18:53,662 --> 01:18:58,676 So if they said, well, we want to build 5 houses on that property, 1303 01:18:58,676 --> 01:19:01,790 That is too much density by a little bit. 1304 01:19:01,790 --> 01:19:04,677 But 5 single-family homes meeting all— 1305 01:19:04,677 --> 01:19:09,994 meeting all the look and feel of all the neighboring properties, like, 1306 01:19:09,994 --> 01:19:12,653 that's something that we could say. 1307 01:19:12,653 --> 01:19:12,879 Wow. 1308 01:19:12,879 --> 01:19:17,240 Well, yeah, it's close. It's 5 acres really on 19, but we're saying it's only 1309 01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:17,580 really on 19, but we're saying it's only on 10. 1310 01:19:17,580 --> 01:19:18,995 We're okay with it. Like, 1311 01:19:18,995 --> 01:19:23,073 it's just something that we could potentially look at that we would stop 1312 01:19:23,073 --> 01:19:23,413 potentially look at that we would stop there. 1313 01:19:23,413 --> 01:19:24,942 meeting the current zoning. 1314 01:19:24,942 --> 01:19:28,662 But here's where I would get into that. 1315 01:19:28,662 --> 01:19:33,241 I have 8/10 of an acre, okay, in my subdivision. 1316 01:19:33,241 --> 01:19:36,199 I can build 2 units on an acre. 1317 01:19:36,199 --> 01:19:40,873 So can I now go, well, it's just 2/10 of an acre, 1318 01:19:40,873 --> 01:19:43,544 I've got plenty of backyard, 1319 01:19:43,544 --> 01:19:49,268 can't I put a second house back here because I'm, I'm close? 1320 01:19:50,041 --> 01:19:52,600 And that was the option. We can at least look at it. You can always say no. 1321 01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:54,010 Yeah, that's what I mean. 1322 01:19:54,010 --> 01:19:57,176 I guess that's what I'm saying. Like, we can always say no. 1323 01:19:57,176 --> 01:20:00,128 That's like— I, I hate limiting ourselves to say, well, 1324 01:20:00,128 --> 01:20:04,637 this is an absolute no-go when it could be just a fraction different to make it work 1325 01:20:04,637 --> 01:20:07,159 because of a floodplain or something like that. 1326 01:20:07,159 --> 01:20:11,659 Well, maybe that's where we come in with the minor of a, OK, 1327 01:20:11,659 --> 01:20:16,983 you can make an adjustment within a percentage some percentage point or 1328 01:20:16,983 --> 01:20:17,883 percentage some percentage point or something if 1329 01:20:17,883 --> 01:20:19,683 you're going to do that. 1330 01:20:19,683 --> 01:20:25,232 But, but I just don't want us to get into, well, if I built 10 townhouses, 1331 01:20:25,232 --> 01:20:26,357 can I build 12? 1332 01:20:26,357 --> 01:20:31,134 Or we can say no. I guess that's my big thing. We can always say no. 1333 01:20:31,134 --> 01:20:34,225 There's— why, why limit what we can approve? 1334 01:20:34,225 --> 01:20:37,525 Because, because boards change and membership changes. 1335 01:20:37,525 --> 01:20:39,297 And that would be my concern, 1336 01:20:39,297 --> 01:20:44,247 is that say in 3 years the next members of the board come in and go, yeah, let's— 1337 01:20:44,247 --> 01:20:47,852 sure, we'll increase density on this lot, on this property, 1338 01:20:47,852 --> 01:20:52,680 and then we're increasing density on the next developer and the next developer. 1339 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,407 So now our density is actually, instead of 10 units per acre, 1340 01:20:56,407 --> 01:20:59,768 it's now 12 because we've allowed all of these changes. 1341 01:20:59,768 --> 01:21:01,968 That would be my concern on density. 1342 01:21:01,968 --> 01:21:05,980 The question, though, that I would ask, just using your 8 tents, 1343 01:21:05,980 --> 01:21:07,924 you want to put 2 houses? Yeah. 1344 01:21:07,924 --> 01:21:11,811 If you go through the A through E, The question ultimately is, 1345 01:21:11,811 --> 01:21:14,256 does it affect any one of those things, 1346 01:21:14,256 --> 01:21:18,581 that putting that second home on 0.8 instead of 1 full acre, does it, 1347 01:21:18,581 --> 01:21:22,594 does it do anything? Does it do violence to any of these things? 1348 01:21:22,594 --> 01:21:25,728 And if the answer is no, then we might approve it. 1349 01:21:25,728 --> 01:21:28,048 And as Brad said, we can also say no. 1350 01:21:28,048 --> 01:21:31,308 I assume, by the way, Charles, that we could say no. 1351 01:21:31,308 --> 01:21:33,177 Yeah. Okay. 1352 01:21:33,177 --> 01:21:33,453 Yes. 1353 01:21:33,453 --> 01:21:34,941 So we can also say no. 1354 01:21:34,941 --> 01:21:40,555 One of the questions that arises is it now becomes really important to be satisfied 1355 01:21:40,555 --> 01:21:45,560 that A through E really covers the waterfront and says it appropriately so 1356 01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:46,033 waterfront and says it appropriately so that we 1357 01:21:46,033 --> 01:21:51,241 don't get ourselves into a situation that is not in the town's best interest. 1358 01:21:51,241 --> 01:21:53,541 That becomes really important now. 1359 01:21:53,541 --> 01:21:57,870 And let me— is there any— is there another, uh, 1360 01:21:57,870 --> 01:22:03,212 large item that falls in the same level as density. Right? 1361 01:22:03,212 --> 01:22:06,712 So great points, I think, made by all. 1362 01:22:06,712 --> 01:22:14,172 But density is one that I can— you know, that's what I brought up essentially as, 1363 01:22:14,172 --> 01:22:15,554 you know, what— 1364 01:22:15,554 --> 01:22:20,377 The only one I don't know about height, if we're talking 3-story versus 4-story, 1365 01:22:20,377 --> 01:22:23,512 that we just say, you know, 3-story is what you get. 1366 01:22:23,512 --> 01:22:25,678 Sure. Those were the two, to be fair. 1367 01:22:25,678 --> 01:22:28,898 Those were the two that— As we discussed it internally, 1368 01:22:28,898 --> 01:22:32,410 density and height were the two that kind of came up as the— 1369 01:22:32,410 --> 01:22:36,793 I think the only one that could sneak up on people that don't think about— 1370 01:22:36,793 --> 01:22:40,583 and Commissioner Gray could probably speak to this a little bit— 1371 01:22:40,583 --> 01:22:42,774 is the mechanical systems placements. 1372 01:22:42,774 --> 01:22:46,091 That's something that seems like, oh yeah, I just think— 1373 01:22:46,091 --> 01:22:50,592 but when you have massive chillers or HVAC units sitting outside that become 1374 01:22:50,592 --> 01:22:55,567 eyesores to the general public, And people go, why the heck did they put that there? 1375 01:22:55,567 --> 01:22:59,535 Like, well, it was easier, so I asked for a variance and we did it. 1376 01:22:59,535 --> 01:23:04,391 That's one of those things that not a lot of people consider but can be a problem. 1377 01:23:04,391 --> 01:23:06,612 And there can be screening requirements, 1378 01:23:06,612 --> 01:23:09,610 and/or other municipalities will do it by actual feet. 1379 01:23:09,610 --> 01:23:13,552 So instead of 3 stories, because you can have a tall 1-story, you know, 1380 01:23:13,552 --> 01:23:15,384 it's where others will put it at. 1381 01:23:15,384 --> 01:23:19,826 Um, I've looked at so many ordinances I can't remember if it was our own or not, 1382 01:23:19,826 --> 01:23:22,824 but it was Like finished foot elevation. It was right. 1383 01:23:22,824 --> 01:23:24,933 It was 42 feet or something like that. 1384 01:23:24,933 --> 01:23:27,876 And that was even though it said a 3-story, you know, 1385 01:23:27,876 --> 01:23:31,818 and it said 3 stories or 42 feet or, you know, something in that range. 1386 01:23:31,818 --> 01:23:34,794 Would you add letter F and just say, you know, 1387 01:23:34,794 --> 01:23:38,610 could be unpleasing to the eye of some formal legal jargon? 1388 01:23:39,349 --> 01:23:42,062 Right. Doesn't look good. 1389 01:23:42,062 --> 01:23:44,005 But I like how HVAC units look. 1390 01:23:44,663 --> 01:23:49,118 Does anyone have any The document is about 4 pages long, I guess. 1391 01:23:49,118 --> 01:23:51,311 Aside from what we've discussed, 1392 01:23:51,311 --> 01:23:56,519 does anyone have any other areas on this document that they want to discuss? 1393 01:23:56,519 --> 01:24:00,451 Yeah, really quickly, because about how is— you know, Charles, 1394 01:24:00,451 --> 01:24:05,144 you mentioned this is a recommendation. We would recommend a modification. 1395 01:24:05,144 --> 01:24:08,441 The commissioners would ultimately accept it or not. 1396 01:24:08,441 --> 01:24:11,232 What if we— so what happens if we do say no? 1397 01:24:11,232 --> 01:24:15,100 Is it a no recommendation and they can It still goes to them? 1398 01:24:15,100 --> 01:24:15,696 Yes. 1399 01:24:15,696 --> 01:24:16,179 Okay. 1400 01:24:16,179 --> 01:24:20,382 That's how— that's how I'm intending for it to be. 1401 01:24:20,382 --> 01:24:20,688 Okay. 1402 01:24:20,688 --> 01:24:25,392 So very similar to the other action that occurred earlier this evening, 1403 01:24:25,392 --> 01:24:30,361 it moves to the Board of Commissioners with a negative recommendation or an 1404 01:24:30,361 --> 01:24:34,071 unfavorable recommendation from the Planning Commission. 1405 01:24:34,071 --> 01:24:37,185 So ultimately similar— and I've said it before— 1406 01:24:37,185 --> 01:24:42,286 similarly to like my staff report is non-binding to you. In that kind of way. 1407 01:24:42,383 --> 01:24:45,528 And is it in this document— sorry, Commissioner Adams, 1408 01:24:45,528 --> 01:24:47,857 you said like it's either a yes or a no, 1409 01:24:47,857 --> 01:24:52,457 there's no like haggling where they're like, I want X number of parking spaces, 1410 01:24:52,457 --> 01:24:56,475 and we're like, well, we won't give you 10, we won't let you lose 10, 1411 01:24:56,475 --> 01:24:57,873 but we'll let you use 5. 1412 01:24:57,873 --> 01:25:00,377 There's non-negotiable where it's either a— 1413 01:25:00,377 --> 01:25:04,162 this is what they're presenting and it's a straight up yes or no, 1414 01:25:04,162 --> 01:25:08,937 not a let's barter. them ask high and then get us to move off of our line a little 1415 01:25:08,937 --> 01:25:10,451 bit. Does that make sense? 1416 01:25:10,451 --> 01:25:11,773 Yes, it does. 1417 01:25:11,773 --> 01:25:17,552 I'm not sure what we can do to limit that. 1418 01:25:17,552 --> 01:25:20,290 Well, one way would simply be to say no. 1419 01:25:20,290 --> 01:25:22,116 We force a resubmittal. 1420 01:25:22,116 --> 01:25:24,068 Yeah, if they ask for 10, we say no. 1421 01:25:24,068 --> 01:25:27,268 They want to come back and ask for 5, I suppose they could. 1422 01:25:27,268 --> 01:25:33,001 Well, what I'm— I think what Commissioner Gray is saying is let's assume it goes 1423 01:25:33,001 --> 01:25:37,945 Somebody wants to do one additional unit somewhere. You guys say yes. 1424 01:25:37,945 --> 01:25:42,675 Goes Board of Commissioners. Commissioners say, yeah, that's nice. 1425 01:25:42,675 --> 01:25:47,404 What about something else? I don't know that I have. I don't have. 1426 01:25:47,404 --> 01:25:51,059 They are the legislative body. I'd look to Charles. 1427 01:25:51,059 --> 01:25:55,860 As long as they're as long as they're abiding by state law, I mean, 1428 01:25:55,860 --> 01:25:57,938 I guess they couldn't do any. 1429 01:25:57,938 --> 01:26:02,238 thing that went against their own— you know, maybe we could. 1430 01:26:02,238 --> 01:26:05,045 Charles, is there legal jargon we can put in? 1431 01:26:05,045 --> 01:26:08,786 I was having a little bit of trouble following that. 1432 01:26:08,786 --> 01:26:10,241 Essentially, if, if it— 1433 01:26:10,241 --> 01:26:14,921 if there's a modification of standards request and it says that, you know, 1434 01:26:14,921 --> 01:26:15,427 request and it says that, you know, they're— 1435 01:26:15,427 --> 01:26:20,044 the zoning ordinance allows them 10 units, 10 residential units by right, 1436 01:26:20,044 --> 01:26:24,155 there's a modification of standard request for 15 units by right, 1437 01:26:24,155 --> 01:26:26,874 or within the modification of standard, uh, 1438 01:26:26,874 --> 01:26:31,301 Planning Commission recommends approval to the Board of Commissioners, 1439 01:26:31,301 --> 01:26:35,729 goes to the Board of Commissioners, they say, yeah, we'll give you 15, 1440 01:26:35,729 --> 01:26:38,005 but something, something, something. 1441 01:26:38,005 --> 01:26:41,547 Would anything— A, I guess, are they allowed to do that? 1442 01:26:41,547 --> 01:26:46,480 B, is there anything we could put within the zoning ordinance that would limit 1443 01:26:46,480 --> 01:26:46,797 the zoning ordinance that would limit that? 1444 01:26:46,797 --> 01:26:51,603 Would to say, is if that modification of standard changes in any capacity Or 1445 01:26:51,603 --> 01:26:54,892 increases in any capacity from the original request, 1446 01:26:54,892 --> 01:26:59,003 it must be returned back to the Planning Commission or something. 1447 01:26:59,003 --> 01:27:00,481 Essentially, because— 1448 01:27:00,481 --> 01:27:04,065 You lost me a little bit. Yeah, that's something, something, something. 1449 01:27:04,065 --> 01:27:07,043 It's but something, something, something. I need something. 1450 01:27:07,043 --> 01:27:09,618 I need to hear something specific to understand it. 1451 01:27:09,618 --> 01:27:10,748 10 units to 15 units. 1452 01:27:10,748 --> 01:27:14,516 Planning Commission or Board of Commissioners says give me $1 million. 1453 01:27:14,516 --> 01:27:18,489 Or give me a variance, or you need to gift us this land as a variance, 1454 01:27:18,489 --> 01:27:22,689 or a I was trying not to be too specific on something, but I think that's, 1455 01:27:22,689 --> 01:27:24,051 that's a critical point. 1456 01:27:24,228 --> 01:27:25,656 They ask for something else. 1457 01:27:25,928 --> 01:27:29,881 Yeah, they ask for something else because this is essentially an ordinance 1458 01:27:29,881 --> 01:27:33,994 amendment. If it is a change that is significant enough to potentially change 1459 01:27:33,994 --> 01:27:34,154 significant enough to potentially change the 1460 01:27:34,154 --> 01:27:38,267 recommendation of any Planning Commission member, it would need to come back. 1461 01:27:38,267 --> 01:27:41,052 Okay, now it— does this have to be an ordinance? 1462 01:27:41,052 --> 01:27:43,952 And this is one thing we— this is live discussion. 1463 01:27:43,952 --> 01:27:47,723 Does this need to be an ordinance, or could this be a resolution, 1464 01:27:47,723 --> 01:27:49,406 the modification of standard? 1465 01:27:49,406 --> 01:27:53,119 provision, I guess, because if we're changing the ordinance, we, 1466 01:27:53,119 --> 01:27:57,876 we may have added 2 months to the thing, I guess, is the, is the, is the question. 1467 01:27:57,876 --> 01:27:59,442 But we can talk about that. 1468 01:27:59,442 --> 01:28:04,751 Um, Charles, what I was trying to say was if somebody asks, um, you know, 1469 01:28:04,751 --> 01:28:07,733 like if you want money from your parents, 1470 01:28:07,733 --> 01:28:12,242 you ask for a lot thinking that they'll meet me in the middle. 1471 01:28:12,242 --> 01:28:17,915 So what I'm wondering is if there's something we can put to where if they come 1472 01:28:17,915 --> 01:28:18,060 something we can put to where if they come in 1473 01:28:18,060 --> 01:28:22,860 and want kind of a crazy variance to get us to go off of the line. 1474 01:28:22,860 --> 01:28:25,187 Um, like there's no negotiation. 1475 01:28:25,187 --> 01:28:29,624 It's either they ask for what they want and it's a yes or no. 1476 01:28:29,624 --> 01:28:32,097 So it's forcing the commission to, 1477 01:28:32,097 --> 01:28:37,042 to yes or no and not negotiate on the variance that they're wanting. 1478 01:28:37,042 --> 01:28:41,165 I mean, at the end of the day, I think you come back to the same thing of they say, 1479 01:28:41,165 --> 01:28:43,947 well, if you came back to us with 12, then we'd say yes. 1480 01:28:44,663 --> 01:28:48,899 So, okay, but that would still put it back through the— like, 1481 01:28:48,899 --> 01:28:51,469 they couldn't approve 12 in the room. 1482 01:28:51,469 --> 01:28:56,122 They couldn't say, well, we'll approve that at 12, it's now passed. 1483 01:28:56,122 --> 01:28:58,275 They would say come back to us, 1484 01:28:58,275 --> 01:29:03,969 which would then kick it back through here for us to review it again before we get 1485 01:29:03,969 --> 01:29:04,525 to that. 1486 01:29:04,525 --> 01:29:05,393 Is that correct? 1487 01:29:05,393 --> 01:29:09,664 It— 1488 01:29:09,664 --> 01:29:13,501 but if it is, couldn't we pass a resolution that said we will approve this 1489 01:29:13,501 --> 01:29:13,760 resolution that said we will approve this at 12 1490 01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:14,693 units It's not 15. 1491 01:29:14,693 --> 01:29:17,216 Right. And this goes to Charles— yeah, 1492 01:29:17,216 --> 01:29:22,395 I believe this goes to Charles's comment about is if the request substantially 1493 01:29:22,395 --> 01:29:24,320 changes, it should come back. 1494 01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:27,441 I mean, there's been discussions about that on, 1495 01:29:27,441 --> 01:29:31,889 on other rezonings or annexation procedures where if you all gave a 1496 01:29:31,889 --> 01:29:32,818 procedures where if you all gave a recommendation 1497 01:29:32,818 --> 01:29:36,868 for CD3 and there's a request to change it to something else, 1498 01:29:36,868 --> 01:29:39,989 would that be required to come back to you all? 1499 01:29:40,724 --> 01:29:45,846 But I think what the chairman was saying though is if someone submits a request for 1500 01:29:45,846 --> 01:29:47,574 a variance of one thing, it— 1501 01:29:47,574 --> 01:29:52,140 could we approve it at a lower variance without requesting a resubmission? 1502 01:29:52,140 --> 01:29:56,892 So they come in, they can only do 10, they submitted at 15, and we say, well, 1503 01:29:56,892 --> 01:30:00,101 we will approve this at 12, and then it is approved, 1504 01:30:00,101 --> 01:30:02,446 approved at 12 without a resubmission. 1505 01:30:02,446 --> 01:30:08,087 I'm unsure. You as the Planning Commission? 1506 01:30:08,087 --> 01:30:11,830 Yeah, well, that we approve the recommendation of 12 and they would have 1507 01:30:11,830 --> 01:30:12,402 recommendation of 12 and they would have to bring an 1508 01:30:12,402 --> 01:30:14,638 updated plan to the Board of Commissioners. 1509 01:30:14,638 --> 01:30:16,196 I think you could. 1510 01:30:16,196 --> 01:30:21,162 Yeah, it would seem to me that, for example, you would have a motion that 1511 01:30:21,162 --> 01:30:21,706 example, you would have a motion that said, I, 1512 01:30:21,706 --> 01:30:27,012 I'll make a motion that we approve this with staff conditions and an amendment 1513 01:30:27,012 --> 01:30:27,284 with staff conditions and an amendment that 1514 01:30:27,284 --> 01:30:32,046 changes it from 15 to 12. More elegant, of course, but yeah. I'm just— 1515 01:30:32,046 --> 01:30:37,826 and I'm asking, you know, one thing that may be beneficial— now we're, 1516 01:30:37,826 --> 01:30:44,184 now we're truly, you know, I'm not— I'm spitballing here— is, A, is it legal? 1517 01:30:44,184 --> 01:30:47,240 A, is it possible? B, that's a given. 1518 01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:52,937 But B, the next question would be to Commissioner Gray's perspective, 1519 01:30:52,937 --> 01:30:58,883 is that maybe there's some merit in if it changes That it should return, 1520 01:30:58,883 --> 01:31:04,663 so that they've got to be very careful. How much do I roll these dice? 1521 01:31:04,663 --> 01:31:05,907 100%. 1522 01:31:05,907 --> 01:31:10,154 Do I go— that's what I'm going— do I try to roll for, you know, 1523 01:31:10,154 --> 01:31:11,906 for double 6s here or not? 1524 01:31:11,906 --> 01:31:15,614 Um, because if something for us to maybe chew on, yeah, 1525 01:31:15,614 --> 01:31:20,804 a little bit about is there a— the resubmittal procedure and any changes must 1526 01:31:20,804 --> 01:31:21,006 resubmittal procedure and any changes must do, 1527 01:31:21,006 --> 01:31:24,714 right? And we'll have to be careful with the words too. 1528 01:31:24,714 --> 01:31:30,174 Changes has gotten me in trouble before. We can either say increases or whatever. 1529 01:31:30,174 --> 01:31:32,867 Well, they have to pay a fee again. They got to go through the process again. 1530 01:31:32,867 --> 01:31:34,930 So they need to be very careful of what they're asking for. 1531 01:31:34,930 --> 01:31:38,983 And this is the article in which we would have to specify that. 1532 01:31:38,983 --> 01:31:44,195 Article 8 would be what is the procedure. I need to know exactly when I pay fees. 1533 01:31:44,195 --> 01:31:47,026 I need to know where those fees are located. 1534 01:31:47,026 --> 01:31:51,465 I need to know who— to whom do I submit The fees, so on and so forth. 1535 01:31:51,465 --> 01:31:54,682 So this is the portion for us to consider, though. 1536 01:31:54,682 --> 01:31:55,925 Okay. 1537 01:31:56,200 --> 01:32:00,552 Does anybody have anything else on the modification standards that you'd like to 1538 01:32:00,552 --> 01:32:00,987 discuss? 1539 01:32:00,987 --> 01:32:03,079 And are we allowed to waive those fees for them? 1540 01:32:03,079 --> 01:32:04,909 Are we— do we have the ability to do that? 1541 01:32:04,909 --> 01:32:06,783 Can we recommend that those fees be waived? 1542 01:32:06,783 --> 01:32:08,026 No, no, I don't believe so. 1543 01:32:08,026 --> 01:32:12,652 Or charge them double. 1544 01:32:12,652 --> 01:32:14,568 I think Charles will have a problem with that. 1545 01:32:14,568 --> 01:32:20,099 And $10 for every tree. $1,000 for every tree as well. 1546 01:32:20,099 --> 01:32:24,557 Okay, so, okay, that's it for the modification of standards unless there's 1547 01:32:24,557 --> 01:32:25,099 modification of standards unless there's something 1548 01:32:25,099 --> 01:32:27,629 specific that staff would like to discuss. 1549 01:32:27,629 --> 01:32:29,052 No, I don't think so. 1550 01:32:29,052 --> 01:32:33,999 The other— the only portion I would say is moving on a little bit is that 1551 01:32:33,999 --> 01:32:37,794 development plans, which are now a new application type, 1552 01:32:37,794 --> 01:32:41,453 exist with modification of standards attached to them. 1553 01:32:41,453 --> 01:32:44,638 Essentially, that's the, that's the difference. 1554 01:32:44,638 --> 01:32:47,417 So instead of it being a PUD We work— we, 1555 01:32:47,417 --> 01:32:52,092 we did attempt to be somewhat careful understanding the history with, 1556 01:32:52,092 --> 01:32:56,091 with this community, with PUDs and, and, and some of those, 1557 01:32:56,091 --> 01:33:00,428 those things where we attempted not to just have a PUD district, 1558 01:33:00,428 --> 01:33:05,510 but to say you are going to very specifically ask for what modification you 1559 01:33:05,510 --> 01:33:05,713 specifically ask for what modification you are 1560 01:33:05,713 --> 01:33:10,796 asking for. What— which portion of the ordinance and to what extent are you 1561 01:33:10,796 --> 01:33:11,202 ordinance and to what extent are you asking 1562 01:33:11,202 --> 01:33:16,082 for this flexibility? Is it right-of-way width? Is it this? Is it trees? 1563 01:33:16,082 --> 01:33:18,115 Is it open spaces? What is it? 1564 01:33:18,115 --> 01:33:22,113 Versus a more blanket approach that is allowable, you know, 1565 01:33:22,113 --> 01:33:24,213 and other communities do those, 1566 01:33:24,213 --> 01:33:27,873 but trying to kind of maybe hit a middle ground there. 1567 01:33:27,873 --> 01:33:32,481 So that is— when you see the word development plan, that is what I'm 1568 01:33:32,481 --> 01:33:33,294 development plan, that is what I'm referencing, 1569 01:33:33,294 --> 01:33:36,208 is it is a submittal requirement that— Yes. 1570 01:33:36,208 --> 01:33:39,257 Is, as you would think of it, as a site plan, 1571 01:33:39,257 --> 01:33:44,611 a little not as fleshed out essentially, but a site plan that would go to this, 1572 01:33:44,611 --> 01:33:49,558 to this commission, ask for the modification of standards recommendation, 1573 01:33:49,558 --> 01:33:54,030 goes to the board for either one or whatever process it has to do, 1574 01:33:54,030 --> 01:33:57,012 whether that's a resolution or an ordinance. 1575 01:33:57,012 --> 01:34:00,671 Then if that is approved, they would come back to you. 1576 01:34:00,671 --> 01:34:03,856 Is it a— and again, go back to my question— is, 1577 01:34:03,856 --> 01:34:08,939 does it have non-residential or Or attached housing? Site plan, back to you 1578 01:34:08,939 --> 01:34:09,278 attached housing? Site plan, back to you guys. 1579 01:34:09,278 --> 01:34:14,021 Is it a residential, solely residential preliminary and/or final plat, 1580 01:34:14,021 --> 01:34:17,681 depending on the preliminary and final plat standards? 1581 01:34:17,681 --> 01:34:23,102 So if that kind of helps, I can imagine it well in my head, and I understand we— 1582 01:34:23,102 --> 01:34:27,710 there is a flowchart, but it, you know, it would not matter anymore, 1583 01:34:27,710 --> 01:34:29,879 so we haven't created a new one. 1584 01:34:29,879 --> 01:34:34,825 But I'm trying to kind of, if you think of it, kind of The pyramid shape. 1585 01:34:34,825 --> 01:34:39,840 Are you— do you have a modification to standard? If yes, development plan. 1586 01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,618 If not, you know, continue past go. Okay. 1587 01:34:42,618 --> 01:34:45,939 One additional thing I'll say about the entirety— 1588 01:34:45,939 --> 01:34:46,360 Let me— 1589 01:34:47,170 --> 01:34:50,108 I just want to make sure I'm clear. 1590 01:34:50,108 --> 01:34:54,473 So developer says, I'm going to build A subdivision. 1591 01:34:54,473 --> 01:34:59,426 I'm going to have mixed— I'm going to have some townhouses, 1592 01:34:59,426 --> 01:35:04,799 I'm going to have some 55+, and I'm going to have some whatever. 1593 01:35:04,799 --> 01:35:11,766 But I really need— and I want to stay away from density because I don't personally— 1594 01:35:11,766 --> 01:35:15,712 I don't want to see that change. But I want to— 1595 01:35:15,712 --> 01:35:16,889 Setbacks. 1596 01:35:16,889 --> 01:35:17,603 Setbacks. 1597 01:35:20,603 --> 01:35:24,247 Because it's different than what the code is, the setbacks, 1598 01:35:24,247 --> 01:35:26,964 I would do that first and get that approval. 1599 01:35:26,964 --> 01:35:27,317 Yes. 1600 01:35:27,317 --> 01:35:33,528 And then come with my final— not— I don't want to use the word final. 1601 01:35:33,528 --> 01:35:38,659 I come with, here's my plan, and I've made all the minor— 1602 01:35:38,659 --> 01:35:40,279 emphasis on minor. 1603 01:35:40,279 --> 01:35:41,982 I'm just going to delete the word minor. 1604 01:35:41,982 --> 01:35:46,089 Okay. Uh, I'm gonna— I've made those changes, 1605 01:35:46,089 --> 01:35:50,104 and now I'm really making this presentation. 1606 01:35:50,104 --> 01:35:55,215 And from there, there are no really significant changes. 1607 01:35:55,215 --> 01:35:58,278 If you— you are then moving through what would be the whole rest of— 1608 01:35:58,278 --> 01:35:59,404 what would be the normal— 1609 01:35:59,404 --> 01:36:01,895 So it's adding a step up front. 1610 01:36:01,895 --> 01:36:04,070 It's, it's adding a step up front, 1611 01:36:04,070 --> 01:36:08,293 but in some capacities it's removing a site development plan step. 1612 01:36:08,293 --> 01:36:13,220 Sagebrook— I'll just say Sagebrook, for example, did a site development plan, 1613 01:36:13,220 --> 01:36:15,587 a preliminary plat, and a final plat. 1614 01:36:15,587 --> 01:36:18,594 And I don't think that, that, that is the norm. 1615 01:36:18,594 --> 01:36:23,265 So for example, let's say that they did by right, which is what they did. 1616 01:36:23,265 --> 01:36:26,272 They met the standards of the zoning ordinance. 1617 01:36:26,272 --> 01:36:31,135 They would— but let's pretend they didn't. Well, sorry, let's— they did not. 1618 01:36:31,135 --> 01:36:34,014 They would not have to do a development plan. 1619 01:36:34,014 --> 01:36:37,341 They would go right to preliminary plat, final plat. 1620 01:36:37,341 --> 01:36:41,500 Now let's assume that they did want to vary XYZ development plan. 1621 01:36:41,500 --> 01:36:43,547 So preliminary plat, final plat. 1622 01:36:43,547 --> 01:36:47,696 And, and that's a good example because they went to, 1623 01:36:47,696 --> 01:36:51,766 uh, the Zoning Appeals Board, the— for the garages. 1624 01:36:51,766 --> 01:36:53,789 Yes. Sorry. Yes. 1625 01:36:53,789 --> 01:36:59,993 So instead of going to Board of Zoning Appeals, they would come and say, look, 1626 01:36:59,993 --> 01:37:05,482 we would like a modification on these 2 lots for where the garage is. 1627 01:37:05,482 --> 01:37:08,902 Is that— is it— is that what you're saying? 1628 01:37:08,902 --> 01:37:14,629 And then they— we would say yes or nay, and then they would continue on? 1629 01:37:14,629 --> 01:37:15,110 Yes. 1630 01:37:15,110 --> 01:37:19,516 Okay, okay, then I understand. And I could— 1631 01:37:19,516 --> 01:37:21,673 And in theory, it is more a— 1632 01:37:21,673 --> 01:37:27,529 that's a great example because that request was really a development request 1633 01:37:27,529 --> 01:37:27,991 request was really a development request versus 1634 01:37:27,991 --> 01:37:34,001 this individual lot has a topographical or environmental feature or issue that 1635 01:37:34,001 --> 01:37:37,159 provides me complying with it separately. 1636 01:37:37,159 --> 01:37:38,777 So it may seem minor, 1637 01:37:38,777 --> 01:37:43,708 but there are differences between a modification and a variance. 1638 01:37:43,708 --> 01:37:46,867 A variance would say, I cannot put a, uh, 1639 01:37:46,867 --> 01:37:51,875 a shed or an accessory building in the back because it drops off— 1640 01:37:51,875 --> 01:37:57,577 I live off the edge of a cliff, and so I have to put it in the front yard, 1641 01:37:57,577 --> 01:38:01,968 which is a violation of this due to topographical issues. 1642 01:38:01,968 --> 01:38:06,437 I, I'm asking for a variance, and it would go through BZA, 1643 01:38:06,437 --> 01:38:12,446 Which would be quicker and would be different because it is a variance of just 1644 01:38:12,446 --> 01:38:12,677 different because it is a variance of just the 1645 01:38:12,677 --> 01:38:16,992 topographical reasons for that lot, if that makes sense. 1646 01:38:16,992 --> 01:38:19,118 Yeah. 1647 01:38:19,118 --> 01:38:24,265 One other big thing that kind of goes over all of the application submittals, 1648 01:38:24,265 --> 01:38:29,612 you may see one of the things that has been changed through all the applications 1649 01:38:29,612 --> 01:38:29,746 been changed through all the applications is 1650 01:38:29,746 --> 01:38:34,091 we have removed every list of every single submittal requirement. 1651 01:38:34,091 --> 01:38:38,369 That does not mean we've removed them. I was waiting for a gasp. 1652 01:38:38,369 --> 01:38:40,374 But, um, other municipalities, 1653 01:38:40,374 --> 01:38:44,719 instead of keeping those at the zoning ordinance level, which is— 1654 01:38:44,719 --> 01:38:46,657 we've talked about it before— 1655 01:38:46,657 --> 01:38:52,138 it is ultimately approved by the Board of Commissioners, and it is your rule book. 1656 01:38:52,138 --> 01:38:56,483 If there was a reason or rationale to change one of those things, 1657 01:38:56,483 --> 01:39:01,296 you're looking at a 4-month procedure. And let's say it's a minor error. 1658 01:39:01,296 --> 01:39:04,370 Let's say it's Something, something like that. 1659 01:39:04,370 --> 01:39:09,918 Other municipalities do this as well, and this is what I'm advocating for us to do, 1660 01:39:09,918 --> 01:39:14,731 is that we would ultimately state checklists are available on the town's 1661 01:39:14,731 --> 01:39:15,266 checklists are available on the town's website. 1662 01:39:15,266 --> 01:39:20,212 Any changes— and we'll wordsmith it later, but the intent is what matters— 1663 01:39:20,212 --> 01:39:25,693 is that the checklists can be modified and approved and are ultimately approved by 1664 01:39:25,693 --> 01:39:27,030 Planning Commission. 1665 01:39:27,030 --> 01:39:31,308 So we all would have an approved checklist for development plan. 1666 01:39:31,308 --> 01:39:36,655 These are the submittal requirements that you must do for that development plan, 1667 01:39:36,655 --> 01:39:39,195 for site plan, for whatever it may be. 1668 01:39:39,195 --> 01:39:44,008 If we wanted to change one of those, we would bring it forth to you all. 1669 01:39:44,008 --> 01:39:49,355 So we have approval from the Board of Commissioners that checklists can be Found 1670 01:39:49,355 --> 01:39:51,962 here, and they can be modified by whom? 1671 01:39:51,962 --> 01:39:56,975 You know, you think again of that little matrix that is the decision maker, 1672 01:39:56,975 --> 01:39:59,181 the reviewer. The reviewer is us. 1673 01:39:59,181 --> 01:40:01,320 You guys are the decision maker, 1674 01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:05,130 and the Board of Commissioners has bestowed that upon us. 1675 01:40:05,130 --> 01:40:10,210 Because right now, any require— change to those submittal requirements is a— 1676 01:40:10,210 --> 01:40:14,622 ultimately has to go all the way up to the Board of Commissioners. 1677 01:40:14,622 --> 01:40:18,298 We are not giving that latitude, and neither are y'all. 1678 01:40:18,298 --> 01:40:21,263 And what you just described is how— As a proposal, 1679 01:40:21,263 --> 01:40:24,228 is what's frequently done in other municipalities? 1680 01:40:24,228 --> 01:40:27,148 It is what's done in our peer municipalities. 1681 01:40:27,148 --> 01:40:32,523 Anybody have any comments, thoughts on that? 1682 01:40:35,523 --> 01:40:39,581 Okay, moving on. I'm generally on page 50, just to give you an idea. 1683 01:40:39,581 --> 01:40:43,221 Uh, I'm still scrolling, going through the development plans. 1684 01:40:43,221 --> 01:40:47,995 Is there any— you know, so what we would also have, again, just to give an idea, 1685 01:40:47,995 --> 01:40:49,964 is Development plans, site plans, 1686 01:40:49,964 --> 01:40:54,440 preliminary and final plats are still handled through the subdivision regs. 1687 01:40:54,440 --> 01:40:57,781 And then there's some additional permits and sign plans, 1688 01:40:57,781 --> 01:41:01,899 Historic Zoning Commission's role, Board of Zoning Commission's role, 1689 01:41:01,899 --> 01:41:06,792 with some of the— with the same sentiment I just expressed of a lot of their rules 1690 01:41:06,792 --> 01:41:11,387 and regs and submittal requirements being checklists and then them having the 1691 01:41:11,387 --> 01:41:13,655 ability to update their own checklist, 1692 01:41:13,655 --> 01:41:17,892 whether it's Historic Zoning Commission and/or Board of Zoning Appeals, 1693 01:41:17,892 --> 01:41:20,398 similar to how they would do their bylaws. 1694 01:41:20,398 --> 01:41:24,551 And do you foresee us being able to, like, on our website, again, 1695 01:41:24,551 --> 01:41:26,659 for the ease of developers, like, 1696 01:41:26,659 --> 01:41:30,364 have them get a login and they can track where they're at? 1697 01:41:30,364 --> 01:41:33,463 We have that currently with our submittal software. 1698 01:41:33,463 --> 01:41:34,012 Okay. 1699 01:41:34,012 --> 01:41:36,674 Is that what you mean in terms of where are you in the process, in a way? 1700 01:41:36,674 --> 01:41:38,336 Yeah, where are you in the process and what are your options? 1701 01:41:38,336 --> 01:41:40,342 Yes. Well, we have that— 1702 01:41:40,342 --> 01:41:45,024 our online submittal software is how we review plans and 1703 01:41:45,024 --> 01:41:50,375 submittals and requirements and fees and all those things is how 1704 01:41:50,375 --> 01:41:54,471 we manage this now. Did that answer the question? 1705 01:41:54,471 --> 01:41:56,351 I think so. 1706 01:41:56,351 --> 01:42:01,606 So in terms of— are you asking if they're unsure on what to apply for? 1707 01:42:01,606 --> 01:42:02,554 Right. 1708 01:42:02,554 --> 01:42:06,634 Call me. There's no way I could, you know, They could read the document, 1709 01:42:06,634 --> 01:42:07,937 but that's not helpful. 1710 01:42:07,937 --> 01:42:10,569 Yeah, I hear you. 1711 01:42:10,569 --> 01:42:14,455 It, it goes— and maybe that flowchart, that forthcoming flowchart, 1712 01:42:14,455 --> 01:42:18,518 would be helpful. Are you doing development that creates lots? Right. 1713 01:42:18,518 --> 01:42:19,990 Are you, you know, right? 1714 01:42:19,990 --> 01:42:24,241 Let me ask, just for the sake of discussion at the moment, 1715 01:42:24,241 --> 01:42:28,933 we are at about 8:10. How far would you like to go this evening? 1716 01:42:28,933 --> 01:42:33,990 How does everyone feel? Have we made the progress you wanted to make? 1717 01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:36,556 Do we need to do some more tonight? 1718 01:42:36,556 --> 01:42:40,348 We have made— we have made more progress than I thought. 1719 01:42:40,348 --> 01:42:44,672 Okay, okay. How do you folks feel about 1720 01:42:44,672 --> 01:42:48,774 going further, or are we brain fried? 1721 01:42:48,774 --> 01:42:52,916 I can— I can make a motion to close if you're wanting one, Len. 1722 01:42:52,916 --> 01:42:57,678 It's not allowed. 1723 01:43:00,678 --> 01:43:04,831 Okay. Are you okay? Is everyone okay with closing it out now? 1724 01:43:04,831 --> 01:43:09,461 Again, I don't want to— no one is screaming, let's keep going. Okay. 1725 01:43:09,461 --> 01:43:13,887 I'm glad you felt that we've made more progress than we expected. 1726 01:43:13,887 --> 01:43:18,191 And I guess some closing thoughts. This is a lot. This is a big document. 1727 01:43:18,191 --> 01:43:22,083 We are still working through it. It was a relatively light agenda. 1728 01:43:22,083 --> 01:43:25,739 It will not be a light agenda more than likely for next month, 1729 01:43:25,739 --> 01:43:30,279 so wanted to make sure we got at least this in front of you and maybe some of 1730 01:43:30,279 --> 01:43:30,574 this in front of you and maybe some of these 1731 01:43:30,574 --> 01:43:35,527 bigger picture items such as modification of standard, the removal of the checklist, 1732 01:43:35,527 --> 01:43:37,885 or the changing of where checklists are, 1733 01:43:37,885 --> 01:43:40,893 and additional modification of standards questions. 1734 01:43:40,893 --> 01:43:43,723 So I just wanted to make sure that we have that. 1735 01:43:43,723 --> 01:43:46,671 The other big one is surety component is on there. 1736 01:43:46,671 --> 01:43:49,383 I don't even want to begin to talk about that. 1737 01:43:49,383 --> 01:43:51,919 That one's a— That one's for another night, 1738 01:43:51,919 --> 01:43:56,459 and we need to talk about it as well internally. Um, okay, so yeah, that was— 1739 01:43:56,459 --> 01:43:58,320 All right, next item on our agenda is other. 1740 01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:00,942 Does anyone have anything else they feel they need to discuss? 1741 01:44:00,942 --> 01:44:06,274 Can I just get a confirmation that we did move the Planning Commission 1742 01:44:06,274 --> 01:44:11,453 meeting in October due to fall break, or did we keep it on schedule? 1743 01:44:11,453 --> 01:44:18,388 It's going to be whatever we— whatever is published. 1744 01:44:21,388 --> 01:44:21,726 Down below. 1745 01:44:21,726 --> 01:44:23,991 I showed on the 20th of October. 1746 01:44:23,991 --> 01:44:29,163 So we— I remember us talking about it, and so that's good if we did. 1747 01:44:29,163 --> 01:44:31,139 We have it set for October 20th. 1748 01:44:31,139 --> 01:44:33,517 So that is correct. We— okay, perfect. Thank you. 1749 01:44:33,517 --> 01:44:34,239 We did it. 1750 01:44:34,239 --> 01:44:35,701 Anybody have anything else? 1751 01:44:35,701 --> 01:44:39,375 Well, just to call out, if we're planning next year's calendar, uh, 1752 01:44:39,375 --> 01:44:42,390 just so you guys are aware, that won't be the case, uh, 1753 01:44:42,390 --> 01:44:45,187 With spring break being later next year, um, it'll— 1754 01:44:45,187 --> 01:44:48,915 spring break will be the week after our Planning Commission meeting, 1755 01:44:48,915 --> 01:44:50,176 so we'll be good there. 1756 01:44:50,176 --> 01:44:56,703 Okay, anything else? I'll entertain a motion for adjournment. 1757 01:44:56,703 --> 01:45:00,355 Make a motion to adjourn. 1758 01:45:00,355 --> 01:45:01,053 Second. 1759 01:45:01,053 --> 01:45:03,910 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 1760 01:45:03,910 --> 01:45:04,478 Aye. 1761 01:45:04,478 --> 01:45:06,983 Opposed? Motion passed unanimously. 1762 01:45:06,983 --> 01:45:10,847 Thanks everyone for your great input and help tonight.