[0:18] room 124
with the provisions of MGL chapter 38
[0:22] section 20. Notice is hereby given that
the planning board will meet on Tuesday,
[0:26] September 8th, 2026. It's in town hall,
meeting room 124. Members of the public
[0:30] are welcome to attend this in person at
1 Liberty Lane, Norfolk, Mass. Zoom
[0:35] connection provided. Please note that
the in-person meeting will not be
[0:38] suspended or terminated if technological
problems interrupt the remote
[0:41] connection.
[0:45] On the board to my left, we have Dan
Seager, preser
[0:50] » present.
>> I am Chris Montford. We have Melissa
[0:52] Mayo
>> here.
[0:53] » And Gary Sullivan.
>> Hello.
[0:55] » All right. So, we're calling the meeting
to order and our first appointment is 5
[0:59] Sharon Avenue. Information discussion
regarding a parking lot expansion. Rich.
[1:08] » Yeah, sure.
>> Come on up. Sit down over here in that
[1:10] nice brown chair. Give us an intro
introduction of who you are and the
[1:14] location that you represent.
>> Okay. Hi, I'm um Hey Sona. Um I'm doctor
[1:21] and veterinarian. I'm open I'm uh plan
to open the veterinary hospital in the
[1:27] five Sharon. Um and before I open I um
like thinking maybe it's a good idea
[1:33] just to get a little extra parking space
uh for less like congestion and
[1:39] » like a traffic flow. So uh we're working
on the interior right now. So um maybe
[1:45] it's a good idea we can I can just uh
discuss this informally. Um so uh my
[1:53] goal is um like making approximately two
to four parking space. Um current
[1:59] parking space is four uh and have a one
accessible parking lot. So um
[2:06] uh so I was just uh that's a like I was
just checking um whether that's a good
[2:12] like a comfortable with a board and then
I'm going to hire um engineer and then
[2:19] surveyor um but I just want to hear
about
[2:24] um board.
>> Okay, sounds good. So this is the um
[2:29] property that was previously an animal
clinic at one point, right?
[2:33] » Yes. Yes, correct.
>> And um so you said that it has two spots
[2:37] now.
>> Um it has a four spot.
[2:39] » Has four spots. And do you want to add
additional four?
[2:41] » Uh additional two to four.
>> Two to four. Okay.
[2:45] » All right.
>> It's kind of hard to see the
[2:49] » It's definitely zooming in there.
>> If it's easier, I can I print out some u
[2:55] picture.
>> I'm also looking at it on Google Maps.
[2:59] Um the street view is actually not that
bad besides the bulldozer that's sitting
[3:03] right in front of the house.
>> Um so the reason why I get some informal
[3:10] feedback is because
in terms of trying to put this the
[3:14] parking spaces in the front which would
be angle parking that that would require
[3:21] a special permit.
>> Yeah. So, I wanted to kind of get a
[3:24] sense from the board if that seems to be
something that the board would give
[3:30] consideration to before he gets into
doing design.
[3:34] » Yes.
>> Permaning.
[3:35] » Currently, as shown there, and I see
here on the on the uh street view, we've
[3:40] got the four spots there with kind of
like that hammer turn and then there's
[3:44] another driveway to the right of the
property as well. It has a couple of
[3:47] additional spaces. And so the proposed
location that you're looking at is right
[3:51] where the tree is.
>> Yes, correct.
[3:53] » Okay. So you would remove the tree and
clean up some of that landscaping and
[3:57] just expand out that way.
>> Yes.
[3:59] » Okay.
[4:02] Um
you do have a neighbor abuing you
[4:06] directly across the street.
>> Those are the new buildings.
[4:10] » That's commercial.
>> That's commercial.
[4:14] And then you have somebody to your right
still.
[4:19] And then I know there's an electrical
company further up the street as well
[4:23] before you get to the police station.
And then
[4:27] Crowley still hasn't done anything on
that corner or no Crowley's on the other
[4:31] side on the opposite street.
>> Oh, yeah.
[4:37] » No, they haven't moved forward on that.
>> Yeah.
[4:39] » And then so we've got two residential
remaining on this street. Is that
[4:43] correct?
One, two.
[4:47] There's three.
>> Three residents.
[4:48] » Oh, yeah. Hold on. Sorry.
One, two. No, it's actually four.
[4:53] » Four. Okay.
>> 7 9 11 and six.
[5:01] » So, here's the thing for me. I'm not
vehemingly opposed to the idea
[5:05] considering the nature of the district
that you're in um and kind of like the
[5:10] changing nature of the property and the
area. Um, but I would be interested in
[5:14] hearing what the abuters have to say.
Um, not that we would make a decision
[5:19] solely off of their recommendations or
requests, but I do want to make sure
[5:23] that they're, you know, aware and
they're not concerned with, you know,
[5:28] too much of uh,
what's going on. I know there's a lot
[5:33] already going on in that neighborhood
and it's a lot of change, but um, I
[5:38] think it'd be valid to hear from them as
well. Any other comments from the board?
[5:44] » Are there plans to expand the clinic at
all or is the footprint of the building
[5:48] will be the same? Same amount
>> same but like um Yeah, I think it'll be
[5:52] easier like for the drop off and pick up
and
[5:55] » Mhm.
>> and then staff parking.
[5:58] » Mhm. But the capacity of the clinic
isn't going to change.
[6:01] » No, it'll be same.
>> And it looks like it's appointment only,
[6:06] not like an emergency clinic. You don't
have
[6:08] » no emergency just Yeah. Just a Yeah.
Regular
[6:12] » like a
>> basically limited to the people that
[6:14] you're serving at that time.
>> Exactly. Exactly.
[6:18] » And no boarding or anything?
>> No boarding. Nothing.
[6:23] » The property next door 7
think might be close to could be in
[6:29] contingent right now.
>> It is
[6:31] » right. Mhm.
>> I think um
[6:33] » do we know what the uh intended
>> Well, we if I recall correctly, I think
[6:38] I had a couple realtors
that approached about somebody bringing
[6:43] their business like operate live there
but also operate their business.
[6:47] » Yeah.
[6:52] » And then the other two neighbors are
like decently set back. Yeah. on the
[6:57] opposite side.
[7:04] » Melissa, Gary, Hillary,
>> I'm okay with this. I
[7:07] » I think it's fine. But yeah, I mean, I
think it's fair to see what a butters
[7:11] have.
>> I agree. I think it definitely the flow
[7:14] would be better with the new design. Um,
and you know, as long as there's some
[7:21] nice landscaping out front, I think,
>> yeah, my only other concern would be,
[7:25] you know, that's going to be a pathway
that the police are going to be taking
[7:27] in and out of the station. And so, um,
somebody reversing as a police officer
[7:32] is coming down that could present a kind
of an issue. Um, so that's the only
[7:37] thing I'd like for you to make sure that
you're taking into consideration when
[7:39] you have the engineer on board and the
architect looking at this.
[7:42] » Okay, I got Um, but again, I I think
you've got a pretty decent signal to
[7:47] move forward to design and you know,
let's see what they come up with.
[7:51] » All right, sounds great. Yeah.
>> Anybody else?
[7:54] » Sounds good.
>> All right, awesome. Thank you so much.
[7:56] Looking forward to seeing what look
like.
[7:59] » Thank you.
[8:04] » All right, that's our 6:30. Um, so can
we do eight Sharons? Stay on Sharon for
[8:09] now.
>> Sure. All right. So, request for
[8:12] occupancy.
Didn't get
[8:15] » I didn't hear back from um beta.
>> No, it did not
[8:24] permit on this one. Oh, picking my feet.
[8:32] The request is for
[8:37] Sorry, I got to get my brain around.
Sorry.
[8:41] So, I did reach out to Beta a couple of
times. Um, I sent them the asill plan
[8:47] and asked him to review that and
unfortunately I didn't even think to
[8:52] reach out to him today.
[8:56] » Was it permanent or
>> they were looking for Well,
[9:02] I think they were looking for
permanent but
[9:10] Um I don't think they have
[9:18] cuz they don't have any temp right now.
>> What's that?
[9:21] » They don't have anything.
>> They don't have anything. No.
[9:24] » So I think the safest thing
or the the efficient thing to do would
[9:31] be to recommend a temp
>> at least until our next meeting.
[9:34] » I mean what's what's outstanding?
Uh they said nothing but
[9:39] » they said nothing but we haven't had B
to go out and do a site inspection
[9:42] compared to the the approved plan versus
the asbuilt to make sure that everything
[9:46] was
built to conformance with the approved
[9:49] site plan.
>> Yeah.
[9:51] » Um
>> I mean did they know that did they know
[9:54] that they were up for discussion today?
>> Yeah, I emailed I Yeah, I've emailed him
[9:58] a couple of times but
>> and nobody showed up
[10:02] » obviously talking about the owner.
>> Oh,
[10:04] » nobody's here to represent. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[10:07] » No, he's not.
>> Um,
[10:09] » one of the uh
>> Hold on. Let me check my
[10:18] So, the building inspector did give him
a temporary occupancy until tonight.
[10:25] Um,
[10:29] » so I think if you don't mind, I think it
just makes sense to continue to next
[10:33] meeting.
That's the only thing I'd be willing to
[10:36] do.
>> I mean, that's essentially the only
[10:40] » Yeah,
>> that's the baseball one. The baseball.
[10:43] » Yeah. So, what give them a temporary
until next October?
[10:48] » Till October.
>> Good with this.
[10:52] » Sounds good.
>> All right. Looking for a motion to
[10:54] extend the temporary occupancy uh to 8
Sharons Avenue
[10:59] » to move October 13th.
>> Till October 13th.
[11:03] So moved.
>> Do I have a second?
[11:05] » Second.
>> All those in favor? I
[11:07] » All right. Hairs.
>> Thank you.
[11:11] » Valerie, you're up.
>> Um I had a couple edits. Did you see
[11:16] those in
>> I did. I did make those. Thank you.
[11:19] » So they were pretty minor. Like a word
here, a word there, but those were in
[11:24] the folder.
[11:27] » That's all I got for you.
>> All right. to uh review and approve the
[11:32] August 11, 2026 meeting minutes as
amended.
[11:37] » So moved.
>> Do I have a second?
[11:40] » Second.
>> All those in favor?
[11:42] » I.
>> All right. Thank you.
[11:50] We've got street acceptances. That'll be
a little bit of time. No,
[11:54] » not really.
>> 2 minutes.
[11:56] » Go pretty quick.
>> Let's go.
[11:58] Um
what I would ask the planning board
[12:02] would be to recommend to the select
board to accept Norway Norway Farms
[12:06] Drive. That's done.
>> Good.
[12:09] » It is done. There's a couple of things
they have to do, but at least this start
[12:12] there's a a patch that needs to be done,
but there's time. Um this so in terms of
[12:17] process
goes to select board. The select board's
[12:20] going to refer it back to you for a
recommendation which will include
[12:25] review. DPW's already been reviewing it.
>> Okay.
[12:28] » But DPW will make a recommendation back
to the plan board and then also back to
[12:32] the select board. But just to keep it on
queue to go forward, it would just be
[12:35] Norway Farm Drive. The other Bristol PT
states there's there's probably too many
[12:41] things that I'd be concerned we might
not be able to get done by the end of
[12:45] the calendar year.
>> Yeah.
[12:46] » So that one should wait for now.
>> And as far as I recall, we have a pretty
[12:51] healthy bond still in place
>> with for no. Yeah,
[12:56] » we just didn't we just last meeting
>> reduced it down.
[12:59] » We reduced it, but it's not like
>> Yeah.
[13:01] » Is that work going to be done and
complete before town meeting?
[13:06] » Yes.
>> Okay.
[13:07] » So, like if there's if they do that
work, we'll we'll be able to be pretty
[13:12] confident additional issues aren't going
to pop up.
[13:16] » Correct.
>> Yeah. And if they don't, we can say no
[13:18] by the time it comes back to us from the
select board.
[13:22] » Yes. Is that piece of sidewalk complete
that they were going to do from Norway
[13:26] Farms out to Medway, I believe?
>> Yeah. The section between that and Crest
[13:31] Road, I
>> believe. So,
[13:33] » y that's been done for a while.
>> Okay.
[13:35] » Yeah.
>> Um the only thing there was a gate valve
[13:39] that needed to be patched that was at
the end of the closet from the we
[13:42] reduced the bond. You remember last?
>> Yep.
[13:46] » Last month,
>> the patch was the one thing that needed
[13:48] to be done. We've already have the
asbelt plans. funds but we need to
[13:54] » has beta gone through them yet.
>> So this is not going through
[13:58] peer review. Okay.
>> In terms of third party it's being done
[14:01] by our office and DPW.
>> Okay.
[14:04] » But um we have the asbel plans. I think
everything
[14:08] » just referred back to the DPW director.
Make sure everything's in order. But I
[14:11] think we're in pretty good shape. It
shouldn't be an issue to uh I know the
[14:15] association
pretty anxious to get the
[14:18] » Yeah, I bet. accept it over as a as a
town road.
[14:22] » Okay.
>> Like I said, if something were to come
[14:24] up, you could always be there's there's
time in the process. And
[14:28] » this was just those little like pothole
sink holes, right?
[14:32] » Sack.
>> Yeah. I'll be happy to put this one to
[14:34] bed soon.
>> Yeah. So, if you would recommend that
[14:38] for acceptance,
refer back to the select board, then
[14:41] they're going to refer back to you.
Okay.
[14:46] We don't need to do like a hearing on
these, right?
[14:49] » No. Okay.
>> No, you don't do it. The the select
[14:53] board as the role commissioners will do
a
[14:56] meeting, not a hearing
>> cuz it's
[15:01] » um and so Bristol Pond, you're not sure
if that one's going to be done by town
[15:03] meeting. So, should we include that for
now and then?
[15:06] » No. Yeah, just discard that. So, that's
that's a future.
[15:10] » So, it's really just Norway Farms Drive.
What about these other two? Blue Heron
[15:15] and Malard.
>> Oh, they're all associnates.
[15:21] Got it.
>> Thanks. Yeah.
[15:24] » All right. So then looking for a motion
to recommend to the select board uh
[15:28] Norway Farms Drive for uh street
acceptance at the fall special town
[15:32] meeting.
>> Second.
[15:35] » All those in favor? I
>> All right.
[15:38] We've got our 645 Liberty Green, 7 and 9
Liberty Lane, review of conceptual site
[15:43] plan with PY Homes.
Please join us.
[15:46] » How you doing?
>> Hello.
[15:47] » Well, how are you?
>> Welcome back.
[16:00] » All right. Thank you very much. Uh, Ess
Petri with PY Homes in New England.
[16:05] Dan Skolski DMS Design. We're the
architects for the project.
[16:08] » And recognizing that this is kind of our
informal presentation to you guys. And
[16:13] really our goal here tonight is to give
you a high level uh overview of the
[16:18] project. I'll skip through some of the
formalities for tonight. Um and uh just
[16:22] because we're looking to get some
feedback with our expectation is we'd
[16:26] like to submit um for uh permit
application within the next month or so.
[16:30] So we're here tonight to to hear from
you and get some feedback. Um, so if you
[16:35] don't mind going to probably let's skip
through a couple slides because it's
[16:40] more skip please again I can go I'll go
through this kind of stuff uh more
[16:45] detail when we actually present but I
wanted to get your feedback on the
[16:48] actual site plan and project at this
point. Uh great. Yeah, this is perfect.
[16:52] Thank you. So, um, the image on the left
shows, uh, the project location just
[16:58] down the street from here from town hall
on Liberty Lane. And then on the right,
[17:03] uh, highlighted in red is the site
itself. I'm sure everyone is familiar
[17:07] with it. uh Liberty Lane uh traveling
kind of along the top of the screen. Uh
[17:12] the MBTA parking lot on uh the left if
you will of the site and then Meeting
[17:19] House Hill Road or excuse me, Meeting
House Road on the right and then uh
[17:23] there's a couple condo associations uh
sitting up behind it. Um the site itself
[17:29] is is pretty flat uh specifically along
Liberty Lane and along the MBTA parking
[17:34] lot as you go up Meeting House Road. Uh
it does elevate till you get to the back
[17:40] um where the condos are and it's a about
a 30ft difference in elevation um from
[17:45] Liberty Lane. Next slide, please. Just a
couple of other graphics to help orient
[17:51] uh I want to in particularly call out uh
image one because we do feel that this
[17:56] is a really important um um site view
and and aspect of this location. This
[18:03] will kind of be the entryway coming from
town hall area um and uh kind of
[18:07] entering into the site area at the
intersection of meeting house. And then
[18:12] two is just kind of showing that slope
going up the hill there. And then the
[18:16] view uh at slide three is just uh uh
looking uh from at top of the hill kind
[18:20] of down back over the site uh towards um
Liberty uh lane. So uh next slide
[18:28] please. Uh, and just again I'm going
quickly only because again I want to get
[18:33] to the meet for tonight. Um, we're happy
to spend as much time as as you want on
[18:37] on anything in particular, but um, you
know, from a site characteristic
[18:41] perspective um, it was really uh,
important for the design of this site.
[18:45] And as I mentioned, the elevation change
coming from Liberty Lane up meeting
[18:49] house is a roughly 30 foot elevation
change. It almost creates a a bowl uh if
[18:55] you will um from where you are at the
where uh the project level would be
[19:00] versus where the um foundation level of
the condos um the closest uh residential
[19:05] units up behind it. It's at least a 30
uh foot uh difference in elevation.
[19:11] And then another critical element that
drove a lot of our site design is you
[19:15] can see in the bottom left in the kind
of red dot rectangle. It's an existing
[19:19] drainage structure related to
uh part of the original design of this
[19:25] area. Um there was originally intended
to be a stop and shop on this site as
[19:29] part of an overall larger development.
This drainage structure takes some of
[19:33] the drainage from the condo associations
up on top of the hill. And so as part of
[19:38] our project, we're obviously maintaining
that and preserving that and respecting
[19:42] that. So that you know, although there
is when you look at it from a site plan,
[19:46] there's a big chunk of land there, it's
not something that we can design on or
[19:49] use. I think that you'll see we will try
and activate the space because it is a
[19:53] subsurface drainage system uh with an
opportunity for maybe a walking trail or
[19:58] something, but as far as any sort of a
structure or design that uh that area is
[20:02] is off limits.
So, uh, uh, next slide. It goes to, uh,
[20:08] yeah, right to the meat of the the site
plan. And so, um, the site itself is
[20:13] just under six acres total. Uh, what we
are proposing are two 50 unit fourstory
[20:20] residential buildings with, uh, garages
under on on both of them. Each building,
[20:26] uh, is proposed to have 27 two-bedroom
and 23 one-bedroom units. Uh and again
[20:31] these are all home ownership condos. So
uh no rentals in any of this. Uh each of
[20:37] the garages will have uh 50 parking
spaces as well underground or under
[20:43] building.
Uh there is a um amenity space uh shown
[20:48] in the back there for the the homeowners
that will have uh gas grills, seating
[20:53] areas, benches, and some some cafe style
um patio tables. Uh from a utility
[21:00] perspective, uh these are all electric
buildings. So um there's no gas or or um
[21:06] or fossil fuel on site. Um we have
coordinated with DPW at a high level
[21:12] from a water perspective. There's water
available as well as from a sewer
[21:16] perspective. There is um one of the few
spots in town where there is municipal
[21:22] sewer and there is capacity there. And
um my we've we've had some initial
[21:26] conversations with the condo
associations as well. We've started to
[21:30] meet with them. Um they seem excited at
least at the initial conversation to get
[21:35] some additional users on uh that uh that
sewer system. Uh and in talking with uh
[21:42] at least with the previous DPW director,
I we have not met with the new DPW
[21:47] director yet, but uh uh Blair had uh and
been con uh he convinced us or he was um
[21:53] uh confident that there was plenty of uh
capacity to service the project from
[21:58] both a sewer and water perspective.
Uh so some of you may remember we've
[22:04] been, you know, kind of playing around
with this site for, you know, almost a
[22:07] year and a half, two years now. And uh
uh next slide please. Uh one more
[22:12] please. Um so this was kind of some of
the architecture that we originally
[22:16] presented. Uh we received uh a lot of
feedback. Um you know from a design
[22:22] perspective but also um from a a height
perspective while anything that we
[22:27] propose you know from a residential
perspective will be within the um we're
[22:32] anticipating to be within the the height
requirements of the 46 ft height. Um, we
[22:37] recognized there was a lot of discussion
when the the zoning change and amendment
[22:42] was going to place regarding four
stories versus three stories. Um, and
[22:48] there was some discussion about an
opportunity to try and bury the fourth
[22:52] floor, so to speak, a little bit better
from an architectural perspective. And
[22:55] Dan will do a much better job of of
talking from an architectural uh way and
[23:00] on and how they want to do that. And so
that's why we brought Dan and his team
[23:03] on to kind of uh dive into the
architecture with a little more detail
[23:08] um in in how we can kind of um you know
better meet what the the the fit was for
[23:14] this this area from a height perspective
but also from a design perspective. So
[23:18] um Dan and his team next slide please. U
have taken it through a couple different
[23:23] iterations. This was one
that we presented. Um we met with the
[23:28] design review board
3 weeks ago I think at this point. Two
[23:32] two three weeks ago. Um got some great
feedback from them as well which has
[23:36] allowed us to further um adjust uh what
we're you know what we're looking to
[23:42] include from an architecture perspective
in our uh permit application.
[23:47] You running now? Do you mind? Thank you.
[23:54] Yep. And so this was uh I believe this
was the iteration that we presented to
[23:58] the design review board recently. Um and
again we got a lot of great feedback and
[24:03] then now we've taken that feedback and
further adjusted to uh next slide
[24:09] please.
[24:14] » What the
>> big reveal? Guess I'm not working to go
[24:20] with my left hand. Okay.
>> Oh, here we go. So, and I'm going to now
[24:26] turn it over to Dan to to speak to it
from an architectural perspective.
[24:30] » So, after after meeting with uh design
review board, they were um pretty clear
[24:35] and pretty friendly with the concept,
site usage, site coverage, unit count,
[24:41] and even and even the height. uh but
they felt that we're missing the mark a
[24:45] little bit on uh local downtown
regulations for for design and uh
[24:51] specifically in terms of um kind of
breaking down that mass, breaking down
[24:55] that box. So they they they had a lot of
uh commentary on that and that sort of
[24:59] led to the moves that we did here. So um
we heard them, we went back, we we we
[25:05] reread the regulations and uh and and we
have this and what we're doing here are
[25:09] a couple different things. one we um by
the way just before again this be when
[25:15] we went into that meeting and everything
before that meeting each building was
[25:20] identical they're mirror images of each
other but they're completely identical
[25:23] and for this one we're making uh one
change we think is meaningful which is
[25:27] creating this tower element that we see
on the right of this elevation over here
[25:32] um which is really that focal point if
you if you remember when ESI was
[25:35] presenting uh that was photograph number
one really the corner site meeting house
[25:39] road and and Liberty. That's, you know,
we coming out of downtown. It really
[25:43] marks the site and uh so we are adding a
little bit of height there to accomplish
[25:48] that. We are also uh adding a hipped
roof to that area and we are changing
[25:52] the siding that be some sort of a uh
vertical board and batten what we're
[25:56] we're proposing there and and the color
change will be there. So that really
[25:59] marks the site that element and and only
that element happens on building one not
[26:04] on building two. The rest of the thing
is uh they are identical. The other
[26:08] thing that we worked on is try to create
um you know a bit more vertical
[26:13] striation in the thing. So we have some
we have some brick elements. We've got
[26:18] so the red is brick. We've got some blue
siding. Uh 4-in clapboard um would would
[26:24] be there. We did do have a mantar roof
to wrap the entire thing but we did
[26:28] break it in in strategic points. We
completely changed the design of the
[26:33] balconies. Previously, the balconies
were um can't leave and written. They
[26:37] were tied back with some with some metal
support rods and that seems to not fit
[26:41] the architecture of the town, sort of
the New England nature of the town. So,
[26:44] we went with more of a porch look.
These, this version has columns that go
[26:47] all the way down to the ground. And
also, um it gives a chance to have some
[26:52] roofs on them. We do have this gable
roof on the top, which uh a a big part
[26:56] of um the New England vernacular in
general. And what you're trying to work
[27:01] with downtown is uh having bisecting
roofs and having things to break that up
[27:05] because that gives us this element, a
nice uh a nice shadow line and a nice
[27:09] way way to break that up. Those run
across. Um we also uh you know, as you
[27:15] can see, we we have some the mant roof
and it stops for the middle portion. So,
[27:20] um, we have some verticality differences
there. And then, um, you know, color
[27:27] differences, some trim, the roofs, the
balconies, the tower elements. And so,
[27:31] all all these things come together and
kind of make it a lot more um what what
[27:35] what the what the goal was um in the um
in the design regulations, which by the
[27:40] way, I will say, we read a lot of design
regulations. Yours are extremely well
[27:44] written and extremely well uh
illustrated. So what you're going for is
[27:49] clear and good job to the volunteer
group that did that. Like it's really
[27:53] like uh a lot of thought was put into
that. So if you want to go to the next
[27:57] slide.
So this uh shows you what the ends of
[28:02] the building look like. Again, we can
see that tower element that we have in
[28:05] building one that's on the left here. Uh
that's that's a that's a bay that
[28:09] projects out um about a foot or 18 in
that we see with the blue with the white
[28:13] siding on top. And oh, we another change
we made that I forgot to point out. We
[28:18] went into design view board with um one
over one double hung windows which is
[28:22] you know no divisions and now we're
we're proposing six over one. Again
[28:26] another little nod towards a traditional
New England vernacular there and we sort
[28:30] of um detailing the trim work around
those windows and doors getting a lot
[28:35] more traditional what we have uh
proposed and and versus what we had then
[28:40] and then um we are still honing some of
that. So the next time we go to designer
[28:44] view board, we'll have even more detail
on on how that looks and the drawings
[28:48] will have some shadow lines and be even
a little clearer here, a little more
[28:51] conceptual uh tonight so we can get your
feedback. But we're going to we're going
[28:54] to take that the next level before we
meet with design board again. Uh and
[28:58] next slide.
And this is building two, which again
[29:02] sort of shows you um a lot of
similarities and and how it works for
[29:06] building one. And this is the next slide
is just the uh the ends of the building
[29:10] again.
and you can go to the next slide.
[29:15] » All right. So, before we get to this, if
you don't mind, can you go back to the
[29:18] site plan? I apologize. I I forgot to
talk about a pretty important critical
[29:22] element of the site plan.
>> Um, thank you very much. So, yes,
[29:26] perfect. Um, so in this um view,
obviously, you see our two residential
[29:31] buildings there kind of set in the back
of the site. And then what we're showing
[29:34] here and what we're proposing to include
as part of our our site plan application
[29:38] are uh two 2800 square foot uh
commercial retail spaces which we would
[29:43] plan to stub out. Um but PY does not do
commercial retail. Um so uh you know we
[29:51] have started to we we've been looking in
the market and to be just honest we have
[29:56] not really found any any um uh dying
interest to get involved with it from a
[30:01] commercial retail perspective. if it's a
tough market right now just in general
[30:04] to agree into. So this is what we are
including um in in as far as a um again
[30:10] the utilities we will stub out and
design to but um right now we do not
[30:16] have a uh a direct use for those and so
um what we've done is we've been talking
[30:22] with Richard and others in the town
about potential options for that uh
[30:27] Liberty Lane space and you know PY is
willing to um kind of coordinate with
[30:33] the town as far as kind of uh
short-term, medium-term, long-term kind
[30:37] of activation and um um you know how we
want to program that space. Um but
[30:42] again, from a planning board site plan
application, this is what we're going to
[30:46] include, what our approach is to include
in this with the idea that we the space
[30:51] can be flexible and we want to
coordinate and work with the town on on
[30:54] what that might look like. And so, uh if
you don't mind going back to where we
[30:58] were, I apologize. Um,
so one thing that we had talked about is
[31:05] the potential to activate this space.
And Richard, I know, do you mind talking
[31:09] a little bit about this because I know
that this is where it would kind of be a
[31:13] transfer from U. PY to the municipality
as far as kind of what that space looks
[31:18] like and how it's activated. Again, PY
is um we're motivated and um, you know,
[31:23] look forward to working with the town on
it. activating that space is going to
[31:27] benefit, you know, our homeowners as
well. It's it's a benefit for everyone.
[31:30] And so that's why we wanted to
coordinate with the town on kind of what
[31:33] ma might make sense there.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
[31:37] So we talked about was that there's been
particularly discussion with park and
[31:44] wreck about maybe doing some additional
programming space or um actually they
[31:51] actually want
you may not be aware of this necessarily
[31:55] but the the other property across the
street 6 and 8 Liberty Lane which is the
[32:00] another vacant piece of property they've
had an interest to be able to utilize
[32:06] that space for additional programming
for outdoor space um a gamut of
[32:13] different activities to do it. Um but
what we talked about was that you know
[32:19] that's somebody who really hasn't moved
forward with anything on the property in
[32:23] terms of development wise whereas this
site is coming forward and there could
[32:28] be an opportunity to program and to
attract and and kind of quite frankly
[32:34] mimic what's going to be going on and is
going on in Planeville where you know
[32:38] they have a
an active space outdoor space for people
[32:42] to get together um activity wise and and
they have the beer garden there and
[32:48] there's other things that seem to be uh
rather popular. But also that this space
[32:55] could also be for instance we wanted to
have
[32:58] ice skating there. You could have a
pop-up ice skating rink be available as
[33:02] an activity. So trying to be creative.
>> Do you mind going to the next slide real
[33:06] quick please?
>> Yeah jump ahead. Sorry. Uh so you see
[33:09] ice skating rink. So, we kind of have a
a plan of action to be able to kind of
[33:13] activate that space now. And with the
because they like Essex said, they don't
[33:17] necessarily do commercial development.
They're more residential to try to look
[33:22] for commercial developers are interested
in partnering with them, but also with
[33:27] the town to kind of activate the space.
The restaurant, as we know, and it's
[33:30] high on everyone's list from a community
perspective. Um so we would again try to
[33:37] reach out to restaurant tours that want
to come forward that we have a location
[33:41] for them in the center and maybe it
builds towards a permanent restaurant
[33:47] there you know and help. So trying to be
creative um and knowing that you know
[33:54] the challenges of trying to attract
people to build a space because we don't
[33:59] understandably don't want to see an
empty building
[34:03] but we also don't want to see empty
space either. So it's something that
[34:07] hopefully that gets community support to
be able creative to build with that
[34:12] space out front.
>> Yeah.
[34:13] » This is or sorry
>> just an interim solution essentially.
[34:16] So, like you were saying, Esica, we'd
have our short-term, midterm and
[34:19] longterm. So, this could be something
where we could get people to come to the
[34:22] downtown or maybe have an L runs on
cake. You never know. Something, you
[34:26] know, like have more of that like
container style, you know, a popup type
[34:30] thing or a little restaurants, food
trucks, things like that to get people
[34:33] downtown. But then, like Rich mentioned
the Planeville Square. Um, having like,
[34:37] you know, cornhole or whatever, like
some some little like fun games to get
[34:41] people down there. And, um, I don't know
about the wreck team. We probably don't
[34:44] want we don't want the recck department
out there with a beer garden, but you
[34:47] know.
>> No, no, no, no.
[34:49] » Absolutely. Right. No, they're not going
to do a beer garden. But
[34:51] » and that's where, you know, we started
to come up with some of those just to
[34:54] give context of the space. There's
actually is a decent amount of space in
[34:57] there to to program. So, you can
actually um get really creative with
[35:02] what opportunities um you know could be
uh activated there.
[35:06] So this will be instead of the
commercial buildings that you
[35:09] » uh well at least in the short term like
you know and and you know that
[35:14] conversation would happen um you know
essentially with the municipality and um
[35:18] you know in moving forward but that
would be as of right now we don't have a
[35:23] commercial tenant or retail tenant. Um
so that would be the initial short-term
[35:28] um approach.
>> But then you'd still be committed to
[35:31] building the commercial building if you
did find a tenant. Well, are you looking
[35:36] for somebody to come in and build
>> someone would? Yeah. Like, so again, we
[35:39] would we would make it, you know, we'll
call it quoteunquote pad ready. That can
[35:42] mean a number of different things and
how it can what that final um you know,
[35:47] looks like, but we have the utilities
stubbed out and the space ready, whether
[35:51] whether we end up grassing it and and ve
putting some shrubs and you know, how
[35:55] how we end up finishing it, you know, in
that short term, we can coordinate with
[35:59] the town and see what's most um you
know, effective. So the earlier site
[36:03] plan that had the two commercial
buildings there isn't actually what
[36:08] » you're proposing.
>> That would be in our application. It's
[36:11] just a concept though. Yes. And we've
looked at a couple different um kind of
[36:15] um uses for that space. We we did also
sketch out a uh 100 seat restaurant
[36:20] which would fit in there. So that you
know where we showed those two buildings
[36:24] again is just a an idea. U but there is
opportunity. There is space there to fit
[36:29] a 100 space restaurant as well as one of
those buildings. um you know uh in a
[36:33] variety of different things.
>> And I know I mean this isn't really what
[36:35] you're here to talk about, but would
that commercial space also be hooked
[36:38] into the wastewater system?
>> Yep. And that was um part of the
[36:43] calculation that we did for what was
left. Yeah. As far as availability.
[36:49] » Excellent.
>> And so where it plays into now where you
[36:51] set because of the changes from May,
you have some flexibility on how you
[36:57] could design and permit this. So it
still has to be the commercial. So
[37:00] ultimately
that's it's not commercialless. It's a
[37:06] word if you will. Um so
>> no we can get creative and come up with
[37:10] » Yeah. But it's not they're not
necessarily putting anything commercial
[37:13] there.
>> No I no but I mean if somebody jumps
[37:18] forward right now they can certainly do
it um sooner than later. It's just just
[37:23] trying to be conservative and think that
we might not get somebody out of the
[37:26] gate necessarily to but have a plan so
that there's a plan to act activate that
[37:33] space from the beginning.
>> I I know you guys are here to get
[37:36] feedback on the architecture. So,
>> well, no, it's everything site plan.
[37:40] » I want to dive into that a little more.
Or I think maybe when you guys file
[37:43] permits just to get our heads a little
more around
[37:46] » how how that actually worked, how it's
ties in with how we envisioned the
[37:51] commercial components of downtown, etc.
>> from an architectural perspective.
[37:57] » Not architectural.
>> Oh, not architectural. Okay. But no,
[37:59] we're if you any feedback you've got um
you know, honestly tonight. Yeah.
[38:03] » No, I mean I'm really not. I'm just
responding in in real time. Okay. All
[38:07] right.
And I think one of the So if you want to
[38:12] so it's going to be kind of fluid
situation. I mean if you want to do
[38:16] another meeting to talk a little bit
further before they get ready to hard
[38:19] and come in with a site plan we could do
that too. So I mean you don't have to
[38:24] commit obviously.
>> Yeah I totally understand that. But if
[38:27] you have some different thoughts
certainly forward to making
[38:30] » yeah it's a little bit of a unique
situation in that we are we're preparing
[38:33] it to be commercial retail ready. We're
just not proposing to build that because
[38:37] we just don't have a tenant or anyone
that's ready to build there. So, what we
[38:40] wanted to do was as opposed to coming
forth with a a plan that may leave that
[38:45] empty, we wanted to develop a plan an
approach with the town that could
[38:49] activate that space u in that short or
medium-term in between before it becomes
[38:54] » looking to lease that property or would
you be looking to sell that property to
[38:58] the owner? either uh you know we'd be
open to it working with open to
[39:03] coordinating with the the town or or any
you know future commercial retail
[39:07] tenant. I mean yeah the I mean the two
things that jump into mind are one um
[39:13] you know is it is it more viable as a
commercial space if you actually build
[39:18] something there and then go to lease out
a building versus looking for a tenant
[39:22] and then building it. And then two, you
know what I don't want is for this to be
[39:27] built as open space, be programmed for
one or two summers, and then be sitting
[39:34] there empty.
>> I think this is where the economic
[39:37] development corporation comes in. That's
what we need in the town. So, it's part
[39:41] of the master plan. We can try to maybe
work on that. I know you've wanted
[39:45] economic development forever. So, maybe
we can figure this would probably be the
[39:48] perfect time to have something like
that.
[39:50] My preference is straight to build. I I
know there's been a couple of instances
[39:56] where business owners have looked at
properties on uh in town center and they
[40:01] haven't been viable for whatever reasons
and that's moved them outside of the
[40:05] town to you know open up their shops.
And so if there was something available
[40:09] and it was already built that would have
been a no-brainer for them. So in my
[40:13] mind you might not be finding people
right now but I think if you build it
[40:17] they will come. Well, it's also the
builder. You need to find a builder who
[40:20] will build it.
>> Yeah. And and then you lose your
[40:24] flexibility for what that next, you
know, opportunity could be if if you you
[40:29] know, you're built to fit.
[40:33] » So, it could
that's a fair point. I mean, there could
[40:37] be a couple variations because there's
actually, you know, you saw the two two
[40:42] pad version of this. There's actually a
three pad version of this as well that
[40:45] you had looked at previously. But for
me, that goes more to what the B1 was uh
[40:50] kind of putting together. That's more of
like what the master plan's trying to
[40:54] do. And that's more towards like the tax
incentive that we're trying to build,
[40:58] you know, take off the burden off the
citizen and put the burden onto the
[41:02] business from a tax perspective.
So, I mean, we're ticking a lot of boxes
[41:07] by putting in more of these locations
for businesses to go in. Not putting it
[41:11] in now feels like a a miss in my mind.
What if what if the data suggests those
[41:18] buildings are empty
for a like
[41:24] for economic development purposes, you
really only look at a 10-year horizon
[41:28] for the entirety of the 10 years.
>> I think that's
[41:33] show me the data and I'll make a
different decision. But
[41:38] » I agree.
>> Yeah. So with this sort of stuff when
[41:42] you try to build this up and we've done
this in cities and towns before um it
[41:47] comes down to foot traffic which we
simply don't have
[41:49] » but we're building it
>> no that's not enough that's
[41:54] » but we do have the village at Norfolk
meeting house like it's it is being
[41:57] built you know
>> it's being built and there's a there's a
[42:00] lot of future there um and I would
absolutely prefer buildings um but you
[42:05] know I also work in the seapport which
is super hot right now and also
[42:10] surrounded by empty
>> retail space, right? Because that's just
[42:13] that's just the way it is right now.
It's just a it's a weird world.
[42:17] » Um
>> I'm also thinking of the transient
[42:19] traffic from the commuter rail as well.
I mean, it's a perfect location for a
[42:23] business.
>> Yeah. No, I absolutely agree. Um that
[42:28] that's my that's my preference as well.
But I I think that in um if if there's
[42:33] an option to take some or I mean ideally
not all but some of that space and and
[42:39] have some sort of a community focused
activation. I think what's happening in
[42:43] Planeville has been a hit. You know it's
only been open it's not been open long
[42:47] enough to say like that's a hit forever
but that sort of space seems to be
[42:51] » I I'm out of the loop on what's going on
there.
[42:54] » Well Betsy has a link. Do you want to
pull that up for the Planeville Square?
[42:57] » Give me Keep on talking.
>> It's awesome. So Jeff Kenny, the author
[43:01] of Diary of a Wimpy Kid, bought all of
that space downtown and has an amazing
[43:06] plan for it. And some of it's going to
be brick and mortar,
[43:08] » and some of it's going to be more of
like pop-up shops, more like modern
[43:12] container style.
>> It hasn't been built yet, but that's the
[43:15] plan.
Some of it's open and built, the beer,
[43:18] » those container ones are, and that's
where the beer garden is. Really cool
[43:21] little area. Um,
>> also has that concentrated population
[43:26] already,
>> right? What? No, not that
[43:29] » downtown's No, their downtown isn't
>> I I didn't even know that was their
[43:33] downtown until my friend and Bloomfield
told me.
[43:36] » Um,
>> but yeah, so Betsy has the link to pull
[43:41] it up, but it's um the whole design from
they have it has its own website with
[43:44] what they're planning and part of it is
what um and and so Gary and I were in
[43:48] that meeting with Essex. So that's when
he's saying some people it's it was us.
[43:51] So that's people who are trying, you
know, we have the same goals as you
[43:54] guys. Um, but we were thinking for phase
one if we could get creative and do
[43:58] something like that and then midterm or
longterm is the buildings. But maybe
[44:02] maybe this is like a proof of concept
when Betsy pulls it up, but like see
[44:05] those little the area up top there. Um
you know where I don't know if that's
[44:09] food trucks or containers or whatever,
but like something up there.
[44:12] » Um or an ice rink, but if we have an
area there, maybe that can be a proof of
[44:16] concept for small businesses to be like,
you know, build up their business and
[44:19] then be like, oh, you know, talk to the
owners like we I actually need like, you
[44:23] know, maybe half of that building, then
maybe we can, you know, divide it in
[44:26] half and make sure that it's going to be
filled. It's just it's it derisks the
[44:30] project from a construction perspective
if you have that. But I think we could
[44:33] also give those business owners like
you're talking about Chris that have
[44:36] left the town because there was nowhere
to go. Give them an opportunity to have
[44:39] a lowcost rental situation for now.
>> I also do hear what you're saying. We
[44:43] can definitely com uh do some digging
for some data and bring some you know
[44:47] data to support kind of each of those
different segments short, medium and
[44:51] long-term kind of approaches to it and
what that's what what our thought
[44:54] process is and what it's coming from
>> cuz I mean the other boxes that you're
[44:58] ticking are water and sewer which have
been the other reasons why people
[45:02] haven't been developing in the center of
town and you're scoring on both of
[45:05] those. So like to me it just it seems
like a no-brainer. going to show her
[45:09] where.
>> Sorry, I sent you in the link and I
[45:12] didn't tell you where.
>> I would be interested in sort of a
[45:15] combination of the two. As a small
business owner in town, um I have no
[45:19] intention of ever opening a bakery. I
don't want to I don't want to be owned
[45:23] by a building and I think I'd have to
charge like a million dollars for a
[45:26] custom cake. But if there was like a
popup space that was a container that I
[45:32] could work out of for a month or however
long and you could have small business
[45:36] owners like me who are say a cottage
bakery or whatever crafter but don't
[45:41] want to support a brick and mortar. That
would be really enticing for like a
[45:46] farmers market type of small business as
opposed to like a brick and mortar type
[45:51] of thing
>> like a restaurant owner.
[45:54] » But that would need something to be
built. this one.
[45:57] » Even if it's just like the container,
>> right?
[46:00] » Like if there was a couple of the
container things and a building
[46:02] » sales are for actually baking for sale.
Okay. So that makes sense. Yeah.
[46:09] » Okay. So that's
>> that's the one in Planeville if anyone
[46:12] hasn't seen the
>> Yeah. So a couple things that you that
[46:15] were scrolled through as well showed
kind of like an indoor space where you
[46:19] could have similar as well. I'm assuming
like multiple shops inside.
[46:22] » Yeah. They have actual buildings that
are going to be built. I think this was
[46:25] more like the shortterm if I had to
guess from a planning perspective
[46:28] short-term just get people out, get
people downtown and you know open up
[46:31] some of these businesses and they had
the outdoor area which is amazing for
[46:34] the summer. So it was probably more of a
timing thing and then also those really
[46:38] pretty buildings that they'll be
building going forward.
[46:41] » Yeah. Outside of this specific
conversation, if we talk about economic
[46:45] development committee work versus
economic development corporation work,
[46:50] corporations are usually the ones that
go and find the funding to build the
[46:53] things, right? Because they know what
the need is and then they take that like
[46:57] Moses was saying, they derisk for the
developer to say,
[47:00] » you know, it's like, hey, don't worry
about that. We have this covered and we
[47:04] will go find the people. But those are
like next steps, future state um stuff I
[47:09] guess I have to work on. Yeah,
>> I'll help you.
[47:13] » I mean, my only concern stems from, you
know, the current state of what I've
[47:17] seen from the wreck department, right?
We've got the the old park that was
[47:22] slated to be a walking path that's
nothing now. We've got the park at Pawn
[47:26] Street that's in disrepair, but we've
gone and approved a uh pickle ball uh
[47:33] stadium, let's call it. Um, you know,
>> court.
[47:38] It's obscuring like the rest of the
park, right? Like to meet a a need of
[47:43] design change and approach and all of
that stuff. But we've got sheds on that
[47:47] property that are in disrepair. We've
got fences that are broken. We've got an
[47:51] old skate park that turned into a
urinal. I mean, I don't necessarily
[47:55] trust them to be able to manage this.
>> No, totally understand. So, that was
[47:59] just an example. I wouldn't get too
hyperfocused on like the idea of a park
[48:03] and rack. The idea is community space.
So, for instance, if you had a downtown
[48:06] association, they could work on getting
a baker down there. They could go have a
[48:11] holiday stroll. They could have
different type of things that people
[48:15] could come, which kind of leads to one
of the things that we kind of talked
[48:18] about before.
And we need to kind of move up on the
[48:22] timeline of business improvement
district because a business improvement
[48:25] district captures some of the revenue as
the student development happens, which
[48:29] then can fund downtown activities, could
be outreach, you know what I mean? So it
[48:33] it's more like having a downtown. It's
almost like the
[48:37] an organization that's going to do that
kind of program in that space cuz you
[48:41] don't Yeah. It's not I just use them as
an example.
[48:45] » Yeah. I mean that just requires a a
bunch of human capital people who are
[48:49] interested in doing it. Um as well as
you know somebody in the government
[48:53] who's going to help oversee it and all
of that stuff. It's it's yet another
[48:56] committee at the end of the day. Right.
So it's more bureaucracy it's more
[48:59] process. it's it's more waiting at the
end of the day, right? So, um again, my
[49:05] concern there. Additionally, we're
talking about things that are going to
[49:09] require some sort of funding at some
point and we're in a huge deficit at
[49:13] this point in time, right? There's a lot
of concerns around money and all of that
[49:16] stuff. We're looking to generate revenue
from taxes, from businesses, and this
[49:20] doesn't necessarily tick that box
because this becomes a state or a town
[49:24] sponsored activity.
>> Not necessarily. It could be potentially
[49:28] » you pay for that space.
>> Yeah. you and there's also a ton of
[49:30] grants to have a tenth there,
>> right? But it's not from the order of
[49:34] magnitudes of what you would expect from
a tenant that's paying actually property
[49:39] taxes on that from the value property
tax.
[49:42] » So you're still operating it at a
deficit. You're subsidizing it.
[49:46] » Well, yeah. Or or or you get nothing for
a period of time.
[49:49] » So, you know, so I think when they get
ready to come in and submit the site
[49:52] plan, one of the things they're going to
prepare for you all as part of the
[49:55] permanent process is a fiscal analysis.
Yeah.
[49:58] » So part of that fiscal analysis there'll
be commercial component but part of the
[50:03] other fiscal analysis be you know 100
condominiums that are going to be sold
[50:10] on the market as one
>> which I've been told aren't enough from
[50:13] a foot traffic perspective to warrant a
restaurant. So I mean we're having the
[50:17] circular conversation about
>> restaurant is or other bigger required
[50:22] foot foot traffic than
>> than a popup. Well, what I was going to
[50:26] say, what I was kind of leading towards
was saying the site is vacant right now,
[50:30] right?
>> So, the tax revenue is generating is
[50:33] certainly not anywhere near what it
could be as
[50:36] » 100%. I'm not saying no to the property
development. I love the idea of the
[50:40] property development. I think the
architectural looks smart. I like the
[50:42] way that the grading is working in the
favor of everything. I'm having a
[50:47] contention around the two buildings
being there at day one or not. Right.
[50:50] That's my concern.
>> Yeah. and and and we can definitely um
[50:54] do again the fiscal analysis but also do
some more analysis on kind of the state
[50:58] of of commercial retail um you know
locally and and you know more regionally
[51:03] as far as and balancing that with kind
of a short-term medium-term approach and
[51:07] a plan and see what makes sense.
>> Yeah. And additionally, is this being
[51:11] planned as a one-story uh building if it
was something that
[51:14] » we had what we had put together is we
had looked at something that was more
[51:17] like a two and a half story similar to
the Walgreens and the the building
[51:21] direct next door. It kind of provides
that step up to the buildings behind it,
[51:24] you know, from a pedestrian streetscape
scale. So that was kind of what we would
[51:29] have would envision something.
>> And so ideally it could be something
[51:32] where it's, you know, it's retail on the
first floor and then you have offices or
[51:35] similar on the top. I I guess that's why
I'd have to look dig into the zoning to
[51:39] see what But in theory, yeah, we there's
a space potentially for that. Yes.
[51:43] » Well, it could be mixed use still,
right? Even though we're separating the
[51:46] two, it could still be
>> they wouldn't be responsible for it.
[51:48] We'd have to have somebody else do it.
But yes,
[51:51] » yes.
>> So, potentially. Yes.
[51:55] » Certainly mixed use minus
residential because they'd be maxing out
[52:01] their
>> Right. That's residential this.
[52:03] » That's the key.
>> Oh, right. So it would have to be
[52:06] office,
>> right? Yeah.
[52:07] » Yeah.
>> What? Why?
[52:09] » Because they're maxing out their
residential capacity on the two
[52:12] buildings for the
>> Didn't we We took out the percentages,
[52:14] right?
>> Yeah. There's ac the acreage per acre.
[52:18] » Oh, gotcha.
>> Yeah. The density.
[52:21] » Okay.
>> Well, there's your co-working space.
[52:24] » That's the co-work.
>> Yeah.
[52:26] » Yeah. I think there's other
opportunities that we should look into
[52:29] from that perspective at least. So,
Richard, we got some work to do with you
[52:33] to to
>> One other thing I want you to work on is
[52:35] the gas. I know you like this all
electric, which I kind
[52:37] » That was the one question I did, right?
Like, why no natural gas knowing that
[52:41] it's available at the center of town?
>> I'm like,
[52:43] » it's I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh. I
only laugh because it's
[52:47] 95% of the time you go into a town, you
know, you're talking, it's it's um
[52:52] everything all electric is preferred and
and um
[52:56] » electrically killing us. We bring gas.
Yeah. I mean the past past 5 years
[53:02] electricity prices are through the roof
right now. I know gas isn't necessarily,
[53:05] you know, all too different, but at the
same time, like we can't bring gas all
[53:10] throughout the town if it's not inching
across the property lines, you know.
[53:13] » Yeah. Um, as of right now, our our our
plan and our approach is to to continue
[53:18] building all electric. It's just um, you
know,
[53:21] » you're providing gas fireplaces in the
back and gas grills.
[53:25] » And they would be Well, they're the the
grills would be propane. Yeah.
[53:28] » Right. Yep. Yep.
>> Feels like a missed opportunity.
[53:31] » Feels like a long stretch of gas for a
girl.
[53:34] » I hear you. I hear you. But still like
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[53:38] » So restaurants
>> a restaurant would prefer gas 100%.
[53:43] » I I don't disagree with that. I I need
that.
[53:45] » But I mean at this time I'm assuming the
gas is at the street level here. So that
[53:49] wouldn't be too The gas is on main
street. It's it's a decent stretch down.
[53:54] » Decent it's a decent stretch down.
>> So there's the answer. It's a cost issue
[54:00] » and and to be honest with you now that
was initially we like I said we met with
[54:03] on this probably two years ago initially
and we did um we did reach out to I
[54:08] can't remember if it's ever source or
national grid at this point but um
[54:12] » now everything that we're doing you know
from across all of our trade working
[54:15] with the state everything is
everything's all electric it's um
[54:17] » I know there's a huge push for it and
>> I do understand perspective we're
[54:23] screwing the
>> yes
[54:25] » maybe are you going to do any solar Do
you think?
[54:28] » No, we don't. There's not just not
enough room on our roofs um because all
[54:32] the equipment for the all electric goes
up on the roof.
[54:34] » So, the amount of we we looked at it and
the what the actual space after you get
[54:39] past safety regulations as far as fall
distance from the edge of the roof and
[54:43] the distance from the equipment on the
uh the mechanical equipment on the roof,
[54:47] the amount of space that's available for
a solar array, it's just not financially
[54:51] feas. tried renting out leasing out our
roof space in a project in Wuburn to a
[54:55] solar provider and we looked into it. It
just wasn't worth it.
[54:58] » It's also would stretch energy code
you no one's going to spend a lot of
[55:04] money on electric in a build. You have
to have now you have to have vents.
[55:09] They're so closed in with and so
airtight that you have to have vents to
[55:13] go out. It's almost too tight now. It's
crazy. So it's but it's also helpful for
[55:18] utility bills. does keep it does help
with the electric bill from that
[55:20] perspective and you're more efficient
but
[55:23] » sure um so we have some conversations to
have on the program but just before we
[55:29] go and I know that we are probably above
our time already but from a site plan
[55:34] perspective we talked a lot about that
activation the program on Liberty Lane
[55:38] but you know generally from our site
plan perspective I didn't get a ton of
[55:42] feedback or comment so I think that
we'll probably feel that we'll move
[55:46] forward with that general site plan um
for the residential piece and we'll work
[55:50] with Richard on um you know kind of how
we work through the the piece along
[55:54] Liberty in the commercial retail space
and and uh as far as what our
[55:58] application looks like.
>> Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. I think
[56:01] the only other comment I would have is
make sure that the um fire chief does
[56:05] take a look at this just you know from
an access perspective.
[56:09] » Yep. And as you showed that to Gary and
I when we were in the meeting, the
[56:13] design of it and I didn't give you
feedback because I wanted it to go to
[56:16] design review and they would give you
their feedback and it's exactly what I
[56:19] expected and I think it looks so much
better.
[56:22] » Definitely.
>> That's Dan and his team and that. Yeah.
[56:24] No, absolutely. Um it was a great
conversation uh that we had with them
[56:28] and so um we haven't they haven't seen
that
[56:31] » next version yet, but we look forward to
sharing with them and continuing to um
[56:36] you know uh you know move forward.
>> Even the colors too. I mean I'm not an
[56:39] architect. which I know some of the
people on Design Review are and they're
[56:42] very good at it. Um, but even just the
colors, they're more kind of New England
[56:46] colonial. I think they'll appreciate
that.
[56:48] » Um, and then the brick is always nice.
>> Yeah, the brick does look red, white,
[56:53] and blue, right?
>> Yeah.
[56:55] » Yeah. But no, I do it looks I like it a
lot now.
[56:58] » Great. Thank you. And just to close out,
I'm not opposed to having some sort of
[57:03] community aspect to this. I just want to
make sure that we're not leaving, you
[57:06] know, tax dollars on the table here that
we could be benefiting from, especially
[57:11] if that's something that the uh town's
been very adamant about, especially
[57:15] within this area of town
>> and and we'll be prepared to have a more
[57:20] full conversation on that at our, you
know, an application. We'll have some
[57:24] the financial an analysis as well as
some of the other documentation to go
[57:28] » and then when time comes, we'll have
traffic studies and all of that stuff as
[57:31] well.
>> Yep. Awesome.
[57:34] Appreciate it.
>> Great. Thank you very much. Thank you
[57:37] very much. Thank you.
>> All right,
[57:42] that was our 645. We've got a 7:15
interview. Stephen,
[57:46] » I'm sorry.
>> Actually, we have a 7 p.m. first.
[57:48] » 7 p.m. first. Woo. All right. 90929600
and 100 RPO streets. Modification of
[57:54] previously approved site plan and storm
water management permit for the proposed
[57:56] construction of a large scale ground
mounted photo solar voltaic system.
[58:02] How we doing?
>> Doing great. That was a fun conversation
[58:05] for me. I got my masters in urban
planning with a emphasis on placemaking
[58:10] around rail. So this was
>> that was everything for you then.
[58:13] » So I've been entertained. Thanks guys.
>> That's great.
[58:16] » Appreciate your patience. Thank you.
>> Um yeah. So um we've been visiting you
[58:21] guys on this project, this specific
rendition of this project since
[58:25] » Just reintroduce yourself for everybody
on TV.
[58:28] » My name is Daniel Serber. I'm the
director of development with NextG Grid.
[58:32] Um the first time here is Chris Seawall.
He is our new project manager of
[58:36] construction. Um that's kind of going to
lead the charge to get this project on
[58:41] track from a SWIP perspective. Um and we
will show you some pictures. We've made
[58:46] a long way since just two weeks ago. Um
we hired a new construction company. Uh
[58:52] so now we're working with a company
called Helios and Zane um construction.
[58:57] Um Chris will tell you about that and
walk you through a SWIP response report
[59:01] just so you can see our progress. I know
um ZBA's been very interested. Um but uh
[59:08] one of the big things you guys have been
waiting for is the hazard mitigation
[59:12] analysis report which uh was finally in
and uh fully approved by your peer
[59:18] reviewer Jensen and Hughes. Um so you
know they were color coding our
[59:23] responses and we had some yellows
outstanding. Now, now we're fully green.
[59:27] Um, and so that has been approved. Um,
you know, I know it took a while. It's
[59:32] not from lack of trying. I want you guys
to know, you know, the HMAs weren't
[59:36] required when we've been submitted this.
And since then, Massachusetts adopted
[59:40] the new National Electric Code, which
made the HMA um required and and you
[59:45] know, we decided to go ahead and provide
that. Um, and it's the first one we've
[59:50] been through. So, um, glad to get that
under our belts and get that over to you
[59:54] guys. So, um I know that was the last
thing on the battery side you guys were
[59:58] waiting for and you know I'll give you
the opportunity to comment on that and
[1:00:05] tell me if you if you don't want me to
go through the SWIP report um and leave
[1:00:09] that to the ZBA tell me and we'll get on
our way faster. It's up to you guys.
[1:00:14] » I'd love to see the updated photos. I've
driven past the site several times. I've
[1:00:17] seen the additional fencing. I've seen
the um additional material keeping all
[1:00:21] the uh debris inside. I haven't seen the
um dust mitigation. Um but it doesn't
[1:00:27] look as bad as it used to. Um so I think
we just go through the photos real
[1:00:33] quick, see what's changed.
>> I would actually like to I don't want to
[1:00:38] just breeze right over it. If we could
actually get a little detail on this.
[1:00:42] » Yeah, I'll let I'll let Chris comment on
the specific pictures and the things
[1:00:45] we've
>> Yeah, definitely. So, um like Daniel
[1:00:49] mentioned, we have Zayn out there.
they're they're working to address the
[1:00:52] uh the outstanding issues. Um with
anything SWIP related is obviously we're
[1:00:57] addressing what's what's going on today,
but also it's an ongoing process um
[1:01:01] throughout the rest of the construction
of the site. So,
[1:01:05] um, they've they've been working out
there, um, you know, last week, this
[1:01:10] week. Um, we plan to have everything
that's on the SWIP report fully
[1:01:14] addressed, um, by the end of the week.
Um, with, you know, if we could get some
[1:01:19] more rain out there, more of the grass
could could take hold, that would be
[1:01:22] wonderful for everybody. But, uh, at
least as far as stabilizing the site,
[1:01:26] um, you know, we're looking to have that
done by Thursday. maybe it would spill
[1:01:30] onto Friday for for having everything uh
currently outstanding addressed. Um so
[1:01:36] they were out there uh installing new
rolls of silt fence, making sure it's
[1:01:40] properly keyed into the ground, you
know, fully 6 in down so that when it
[1:01:43] does rain, the water doesn't just wash
it out.
[1:01:45] » Sorry, are are you guys controlling the
slideshow or is it
[1:01:49] » which one?
>> Oh, that's
[1:01:52] you can start moving through the
pictures. Thanks. So they uh picture one
[1:01:56] is new silt fence that was um or
existing sil fence that was restored and
[1:02:00] maintained. They added in new um silt
sock in front of those fenced areas
[1:02:07] staking it in place. Um go to the next
slide. I think we have one. Um here
[1:02:14] they're they were in the woods today
pulling out some of the silt that had
[1:02:18] gone past the fence while they were
repairing the existing lines. Um, you
[1:02:23] can see here this has been rekeyed in um
to make sure that water isn't going to
[1:02:28] to penetrate underneath it anymore. Um,
yeah. So, that top left is an area of
[1:02:35] the woods that had had silt on top of
it. They were out there um getting that
[1:02:39] all shoveled out. Same with the bottom
right picture as well. Uh, kind of that
[1:02:44] same same woods area that water had uh
had overrun the fences before. Um
[1:02:53] uh this is a section here kind of at the
front of the site in front of one of the
[1:02:56] retention basins. Um making sure that
any of that water that's coming down in
[1:03:00] this section in particular some of the
site roads um going down the hill where
[1:03:05] water likes to to run faster and pick up
some sediment. Uh making sure the silt
[1:03:09] sock and uh that silt fence that you can
kind of see right behind it um that was
[1:03:14] all rekeyed in today um to make sure
that that is solid. Um, I think we still
[1:03:20] have a couple more photos if we keep
going.
[1:03:23] Um,
the area
[1:03:28] top right I believe is the area um where
the cell tower access road is in front
[1:03:34] above that. Um, they just added in a
whole actually that's still above the uh
[1:03:40] the basin there. Um, repaired all that.
They added in a whole se new section of
[1:03:44] sil fence in front of where the old
tower access road was. um because there
[1:03:48] had been some some water getting getting
around there before. Um
[1:03:54] the two bottom right photo or two bottom
photos are on the um I guess it's kind
[1:04:00] of the northeast side on Pond Street
where that that final um final basin is
[1:04:05] before the the water leaves the site. um
replacing the the silt socks in that um
[1:04:12] in the catch basin to make sure that the
uh the sediment that it has caught has
[1:04:16] been removed and that there's new new
controls in place that have capacity to
[1:04:21] to take up any silt that that gets down
there.
[1:04:25] » See some grass coming in which is nice.
>> Yeah, it's it's starting
[1:04:29] » the optimist
>> here and there. Um it is it is starting
[1:04:33] to come in. Um
they they're one of the things that
[1:04:38] they're still going to finish up uh
later this week is to bring in more more
[1:04:42] hay and more um straw mats to help um
stabilize while we are waiting for more
[1:04:48] of that grass seed to come in and kind
of make sure we're tackling the problem
[1:04:52] further up on the slope before it
actually is getting down to where kind
[1:04:56] of our our sill fence and our that's our
last line of defense. We need to make
[1:05:00] sure we're we're slowing it down
beforehand.
[1:05:03] Um, if you can keep going, I don't
remember exactly how many pictures are
[1:05:07] are in the report. Um, bottom right is
the construction entrance. Um, there's
[1:05:13] not really any issues there anymore. Um,
no no mutter or silt is making it out to
[1:05:19] the road through through all that
significant rip wrap um, portion
[1:05:25] and just more more straw and and hay
going down to uh to help stabilize the
[1:05:30] site.
keep going.
[1:05:34] Um,
[1:05:37] uh, one of the things was making sure
that the the sign, the Nifty's, um,
[1:05:42] permit sign was posted. So, that's up.
>> That's huge. Like, I hadn't seen that at
[1:05:46] all throughout the entire
>> Not sure why that wasn't up before. Um,
[1:05:51] Daniel said, I I just started with Next
Grid about a week ago. Um, but certainly
[1:05:56] we we uh will stay on top of all this.
Um, so this is just kind of a view of
[1:06:02] the site from the uh the street here.
Um, going up that construction entrance.
[1:06:08] » I think even just having the fencing on
the property now as you're looking over
[1:06:11] from the street as you're driving by
really helps,
[1:06:14] » you know, define the area of the
property that's being addressed here.
[1:06:18] And obviously, there's going to be new
plantings and grasses and things that
[1:06:21] are growing back to cover the space. So,
I'm hoping that those that are watching
[1:06:25] online and those the immense group that
we have here in front of us uh are
[1:06:29] appreciating that as well.
>> Yes. So, the the like you said, there's
[1:06:34] the fence all the way across the the
front of the site. Um that's all
[1:06:39] currently still temporary fence, but
there's also ongoing everyday more
[1:06:43] progress onto the permanent sight fence.
Um and once once that permanent sight
[1:06:48] fence is in place, um some of these
storm water controls are going to move
[1:06:52] in front of the fence um to make sure
that they're accessible for um for
[1:06:56] checking and maintaining during the the
rest of the course of this project.
[1:07:00] » Yeah. And additionally, the the
neighboring property, the auto body
[1:07:03] shops, no longer parking on the property
proper anymore. They're actually off
[1:07:08] onto their own property instead of
extending into yours on
[1:07:13] » the shared property at this point.
[1:07:17] Uh next page.
Uh so this is more along the I guess the
[1:07:25] southeast side. Uh this was a whole new
section. This is in front of where the
[1:07:30] uh the tower access is. A whole new
section of sil fest that goes in and
[1:07:34] curves around and goes kind of up the
slope to make sure that no water can get
[1:07:38] by. This one wasn't quite adequate
enough to uh to capture that corner. Um
[1:07:47] and uh the ones on the bottom are just
as as you continue up up that sight
[1:07:51] line. Um just adding in more silt sock
tow uh keying in um repairs on the the
[1:07:58] silt fence.
>> Next slide, please.
[1:08:05] Um, this is once again closer to Pawn
Street on the uh on the retainage basin
[1:08:13] side of things. Um,
so part of what we're looking to do is
[1:08:20] is to look at getting some of the um
some of the material removed out of the
[1:08:25] bottom of those basins to make sure that
anything that has been trapped there um
[1:08:29] gets removed so that there's still the
sufficient capacity to to capture the
[1:08:33] storm water.
[1:08:38] Uh, next slide.
>> I think that's it. All right. Yeah.
[1:08:44] Is this all of your work from the past
week that you've been at?
[1:08:49] » Yeah, for for the the swift stuff. Yes.
>> Wow.
[1:08:52] » A lot of it was repairs. So, it's not
all brand new, but you can see that
[1:08:56] they've
>> Yeah, the stuff we got green is is new
[1:09:00] and kind of the stuff that's old and
faded is is from previous, but um yeah,
[1:09:05] Zayn's been hitting it real hard to uh
to make sure that we we get it brought
[1:09:09] to where it needs to be. Well,
>> we appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah.
[1:09:12] Great.
I drove by and I saw the uh sign. I was
[1:09:16] like, "Wow."
>> Just the little things.
[1:09:19] » The little things make us happy.
>> So now, just for clarification, you're
[1:09:25] is he
[1:09:29] swapping out with the other previous
person that was from next on on the
[1:09:33] site?
>> No, Christian is still with us and he's
[1:09:35] still going to he still spends a lot of
time there. And and Scott is still our
[1:09:38] VP of construction. He's still with us.
>> Landon, what? Uh Landon is still with
[1:09:43] Next Grid. He's not spending as much
time on this project in particular.
[1:09:46] » Okay.
>> Um
[1:09:48] » and then Zayn is working directly for
Next Grid to do the
[1:09:53] » So we we have a new group. We'll
introduce the ZBA to next week called
[1:09:57] Helios. They work with us on a ton of
projects and and I know some people on
[1:10:01] your ZBA board are actually familiar
with them from other jobs of their life.
[1:10:06] Um so we've had a lot of success with
them. They're taking over as the GC and
[1:10:11] Zayn is their civil subcontractor.
>> Okay. And then Capital, like you
[1:10:16] mentioned, is not doing the construction
anymore,
[1:10:18] » right? Capital's completely off the job
or
[1:10:22] » uh Yeah.
>> Yeah. Just making sure.
[1:10:24] » Well, they still have some equipment on
the job, but it's in the process of
[1:10:26] changing over to to Helios and Zane.
>> Okay.
[1:10:34] So, when you said you expect this work
to be complete by the end of this week,
[1:10:38] » the SWIP stuff um addressed right now
the schedule says Thursday. I say the
[1:10:42] end of the week just to in case
something goes wrong, we got we get an
[1:10:45] extra day there.
[1:10:49] But at the speed they've been going so
far, you know, Thursday seems like it's
[1:10:53] probably a good bet.
And I I haven't had an opportunity to go
[1:10:59] back out and look at it since I a little
bit. So, it's prior to vacation, so I
[1:11:03] certainly like to go out and take a
peek.
[1:11:06] » Yeah, definitely. Let let us know. We'll
make sure that either myself or or
[1:11:09] Christian, someone's available on site
to to walk you through.
[1:11:15] » And as you said, this is this is the
first step to to correcting the issue,
[1:11:20] but we obviously need to maintain this
for the rest of the project. So, it's by
[1:11:25] no means are when we say we're done
Thursday, are we done managing SWIP?
[1:11:30] It's it's an ongoing process until we
are, you know, fully seated and
[1:11:34] vegetated at the edge of the end of the
project.
[1:11:37] » Yeah. I mean, I I hope you will be
paying as much attention to this as you
[1:11:43] clearly have the past couple weeks going
forward.
[1:11:46] » We will.
[1:11:51] It's certainly very
[1:11:56] » Yeah, it's it's this project is my
highest priority right now. So we we
[1:12:01] will stay on top of it.
Okay.
[1:12:07] » So is there any additional questions for
about the battery or SWIP or
[1:12:14] » looking at the hazard mitigation plan?
Um couple contradictions in here just
[1:12:20] with regards to which NFPA
um you're adhering towards. You've
[1:12:25] mentioned 2020 in here a couple times.
You've got 2023 in here. um it kind of
[1:12:30] makes it difficult to go back and forth
between the citations and making sure
[1:12:33] that they're correct and you're pulling
from the right ones. So, that's
[1:12:36] something that I would want resolved.
It's not something that's necessarily
[1:12:40] going to keep us from making a decision
or anything, but I will provide some
[1:12:43] notes um to Rich that he can share with
you guys. There's a couple of other
[1:12:48] areas where things are just typed wrong,
right? Um, ANC7535,
[1:12:53] it's Z535. Uh, fur control instead of
for control, cabinet penal instead of
[1:12:59] panel. Um, so some typos, little things
like that. Um, you called out 144 cells
[1:13:05] at one point, but it's 114 cells. Um, so
little things like that um need to be
[1:13:12] just kind of uh addressed as well. Um,
[1:13:26] See,
yeah, I'm happy to put this into an
[1:13:30] email and have that shared across.
[1:13:35] There's like some questions around the
UL9540 listing as well. Um, that's
[1:13:41] mostly from the product level because
the product doesn't say it's
[1:13:44] specifically 9540, but it does list the
internal as 9540. The outside is UL1973
[1:13:50] as they describe it. So, that's just
something that should get rectified as
[1:13:54] well.
Um, freeze protection as well. There's
[1:13:59] that 7 kW heater that everything kind of
like would fail on if we did have to
[1:14:04] suppress and put water into it in the
winter or anything like that. So, like
[1:14:08] what's the backup plan for that? There's
nothing called out specifically for it.
[1:14:12] Um,
[1:14:18] distance from the containers to the
surrounding tree lines not stated.
[1:14:30] Carbon monoxide is mentioned, but
hydrogen fluoride is not. But hydrogen
[1:14:34] fluoride is typically what governs the
toxic consequence modeling for lithium
[1:14:38] ion phosphate thermal runway. So that
should be addressed in there as well.
[1:14:47] And then um what were we doing with
water on the property as well? There's
[1:14:53] no hydrant.
>> There's a hydron at at the street.
[1:14:56] » There's a hydrant at the street. What
was the distance? You remember? It's
[1:15:00] sufficient that Chief was confident he
could get a hose out to it and
[1:15:03] everything, right?
>> Yeah, he is. Okay. I'm looking to see
[1:15:08] » because there's not one on site, per se.
>> Not on site specifically. No, but the
[1:15:14] hydrogen is they're actually using the
hydrogen right now to fill the
[1:15:20] the uh water truck.
>> The water truck.
[1:15:22] » Okay.
[1:15:25] » Let's see.
[1:15:31] Yeah. And then another little thing is
like page nine's placing the container
[1:15:35] the battery containers 200 ft southwest
of Pond Street, but then the table on
[1:15:39] page uh table one on page 11 is saying
it's 118 ft to the nearest public way.
[1:15:44] So that needs to get figured out.
[1:15:54] But these again, these seem like more
like clerical just inconsistencies that
[1:15:59] just need to be addressed.
[1:16:04] And so
looks like we're all on this email
[1:16:09] anyway. Um, so Rich, should I just reply
all and send this?
[1:16:16] » Don't reply all.
>> Should just reply to you.
[1:16:18] » Yes, please. as noted during our
meeting.
[1:16:23] » I did. All right. So, Rich has that now.
>> Great.
[1:16:27] » Okay. I know that Melissa earlier today
had asked a question to fire chief. I
[1:16:32] don't know a chance to take a look his
response.
[1:16:35] » Yeah. I don't know if you guys did. It
was just today. I sent it to Betsy in
[1:16:38] case you want to put it on the screen,
Bets. the um my question that I had at
[1:16:43] the last meeting when I was asking about
secondary containment. My fear was that
[1:16:48] if there was um and of course all the
experts have said very very very
[1:16:52] unlikely that we'd have a catastrophic
right catastrophic failure but in the
[1:16:58] case that there is right um the F500
encapsulator that the chief mentioned he
[1:17:03] would use to flood
>> the um the container. I was like, "Okay,
[1:17:08] so the F500 itself is eco-friendly and
it's biodegradable, but what happens
[1:17:13] when it's encaps encapsulating something
that's hazardous material or hazardous
[1:17:17] whatever, right?" And where we have the
storm water right at the bottom of that
[1:17:21] hill, I was afraid that it would, you
know, in my mind this would overflow and
[1:17:26] it would go down the hill and now it's
in the storm water basin and now it's in
[1:17:29] the ground. Um, and so I reached out to
the chief and just said, "Can you just
[1:17:33] basically put my mind at ease or tell me
that I'm that you think I'm right?" you
[1:17:36] know, either way. Um, but can you just
let me know your thoughts on this from
[1:17:40] all of your training that you've gone
through? And, um, obviously I'm not I'm
[1:17:43] not a firefighter, so I don't know what
it's like to use F500 and, you know,
[1:17:46] spray it into an enclosed container and
all that. Um, so he wrote back and I
[1:17:51] sent the message to Betsy, um, cuz I
think it was it was very very very well
[1:17:54] written and immediately took away all of
my concerns. Um but he mentioned um I'll
[1:17:59] give you a couple of things that he
mentioned which is basically um even in
[1:18:04] the very very very rare um worst case
scenario that there was a fire and that
[1:18:09] they did have to um flood the container
um even if it was a teeny tiny little
[1:18:14] bit of of the F500 or or even the water
that came out, it's still going to be
[1:18:18] significantly less than a structure
fire, which we have all the time around
[1:18:21] here, or a car fire. Um, and so when you
put it in perspectives like that, you
[1:18:25] know, it just it made me feel a lot
better because we're all thinking when
[1:18:29] you read, you know, Facebook, especially
with folks that are concerned, you
[1:18:33] picture explosions, you picture, you
know, there's going to be like a hose
[1:18:36] going into this container and, you know,
and it's and it's going to spray
[1:18:39] everywhere and it's going to go
downstream and it's going to be in our
[1:18:42] storm water and there's a water body
right across the street. And so I was
[1:18:45] concerned about that, but the chief um,
Betsy, can you pull up that email from
[1:18:48] chief? Thanks.
um was was definitely very very helpful
[1:18:52] and put me at ease.
[1:18:56] » Well, give or take. I would say the
hydrant we could show you on the civil
[1:19:00] too afterwards, but it's probably like
within 50 ft for the entrance drive.
[1:19:05] That's right.
>> Yeah, that's sufficient.
[1:19:07] » Yeah.
[1:19:15] » And I think you guys were copied on the
email, right? So, you saw should send it
[1:19:19] over. Yeah.
[1:19:28] » Yeah. He's become like a statewide
authority in my opinion on
[1:19:32] » Chief Kenny. He's great to work with,
too.
[1:19:35] » Yeah.
>> Um but yeah, he said he's, you know, I
[1:19:38] mean, he said in our in our training,
you know, the forum that we had.
[1:19:41] » Yeah.
>> He's learned so much. you guys have
[1:19:43] said, you know, he obviously, you know,
he's learned a lot, too, cuz you've been
[1:19:46] working with him and your teams have
been. But it's good. I think this was a
[1:19:51] good exercise as much as it was, you
know, delayed your project quite a bit.
[1:19:55] Um, but now you know how to do a hazard
mitigation analysis.
[1:19:57] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:20:02] » Uh, okay. Yep. So, that's Chief's
response to me.
[1:20:12] Where are you guys at with the ZBA?
>> So,
[1:20:18] the last time we met with them, which
was two hearings ago, um they had a a
[1:20:23] couple things they said that they wanted
to see happen on site before they gave
[1:20:27] an approval. And those things have been
accomplished now. Um, so
[1:20:34] you know, I hope we can close out with
the ZBA as well, but I'm not
[1:20:38] » Did the fencing go in on the back there
where they're worried about like the
[1:20:41] grade drop?
>> So, the fencing, all the the um poles
[1:20:46] are in, but they're putting the mesh uh
chain link up in the back still. Um, and
[1:20:52] then we got the temporary protecting the
front and then um around the guy wires.
[1:20:56] So, um it'll be up before we're there.
all the way around.
[1:21:07] » Any other questions?
[1:21:10] » Any questions online?
[1:21:14] » No,
>> we don't have beta tonight, right?
[1:21:19] Beta's not on.
>> No, there wasn't
[1:21:23] any civil
questions left. I think we I think we
[1:21:29] talked about it before, but just making
sure that everything that's been done
[1:21:33] thus far is consistent with what was
previously approved on the site and any
[1:21:40] previous conditions that were part of
that that are relevant to the site to
[1:21:44] date have been met. But I think beta has
confirmed that.
[1:21:49] » Yeah. And
>> in our last call when they were on I
[1:21:53] think
>> Yeah. But even so I took it as so I'm
[1:21:57] putting together just a step further.
I'm going I I took the I don't have it
[1:22:02] for you. I'm working on it for you to
provide the 2022
[1:22:07] decision
2024 decision essentially 22 they never
[1:22:12] really got to build out on it because it
came in for the modification. So I took
[1:22:16] I took the original one and went through
all the conditions and I have an
[1:22:19] explanation for them. I'm going to
provide that to you. Okay. have to plan
[1:22:22] in Brazilian board of appeals to go
back.
[1:22:25] » Um
>> the primary in one respects
[1:22:29] » they have
since I helped draft the decision for
[1:22:35] the planning board back in 2021.
I certainly it's arguable but the fence
[1:22:41] was not intended to be a fence to be put
in in the beginning. was a perimeter
[1:22:46] fence that be done with the project was
a I know it's kind of morphed through
[1:22:50] the process and that's kind of the thing
I want to put in this response because
[1:22:54] that's kind of morphed over time. Um I
applaud them putting out the signage but
[1:22:58] the signage was more for on the
permanency side of it not an interim to
[1:23:02] those kind of things just to clarify. So
want to interpret that those conditions
[1:23:07] were not met. You can have that opinion.
But in terms I want to be able to kind
[1:23:11] of put it to writing. You know what I
mean? So we're not this back and so I'm
[1:23:15] not
>> I really would like to end this back and
[1:23:18] forth.
>> Right. So um the decommissioning plan,
[1:23:22] you know, that was submitted the
interconnection
[1:23:25] stuff that they were submitted, the
racking system that was part of it. It's
[1:23:28] in the file. So I'm trying to go back
through all those things and put it all
[1:23:32] together. So, it's a one like here's the
here's the condition, here's what was
[1:23:38] done. Um,
which is a good exercise anyway. So,
[1:23:42] » 100%. I mean, I think it's in our
interest and your guys' interest to make
[1:23:47] sure that this is buttoned up as tight
as possible.
[1:23:49] » Yeah. So, um, I will have that
>> the goal is to have that absolutely for
[1:23:55] the CPA next week and I'll just follow
the plan, but I don't have it complete
[1:23:58] for tonight. that was there. I was
trying to I was trying
[1:24:02] but
>> Okay.
[1:24:04] » So then I'm looking for a motion to
close the public hearing
[1:24:09] » for 90 92 96 100 on Pond Street.
>> So move
[1:24:14] » just quickly. So the plan would be we
would close the hearing and then next
[1:24:19] meeting
potentially vote on
[1:24:22] » decisions. This is what what I was
envisioning.
[1:24:27] » Yeah. closing the public hearing.
>> We keep it open for decision purposes
[1:24:34] just for decision.
>> So not close it.
[1:24:36] » You can close the public comment portion
public hearing,
[1:24:40] » but keep the hearing open quote unquote
if you need to have something related to
[1:24:44] completion of the decision be finalized
>> and then have it finalized.
[1:24:50] Well, actually drafted in between. It's
already been drafted, but I know there's
[1:24:53] some changes that need to be done to it.
that you could vote on at the October
[1:24:57] meeting.
>> Okay. Yeah, that all sounds great to me.
[1:25:01] Um I just want to see the same level of
diligence on the SWIP updates at the
[1:25:08] October meeting as we got tonight in
order to
[1:25:12] vote to move the project forward. But
otherwise, I'm good.
[1:25:18] » And congratulations on your hazard
mitigation analysis turning all green.
[1:25:22] » Thank you.
[1:25:26] Sorry, I interrupt. So, I'll second
Melissa's motion to close.
[1:25:30] » Do we have to stipulate that it's only
the public portion? Oh,
[1:25:34] » prefer that. All right. So, looking for
a motion to close the public portion of
[1:25:38] the 90929600
100R Pawn Street public hearing.
[1:25:42] » So moved.
>> Have a second. All those in favor? I
[1:25:46] » I
>> All right. The reason why is cuz you had
[1:25:49] asked a question, so I wanted you to be
able to get that info.
[1:25:52] » Sure. And there might be a little
>> I concur.
[1:25:56] » Okay. So then for next time it's so the
hazard mitigation you're going to work
[1:26:00] on that any inconsistencies, right?
>> And then the SWIP updates which you guys
[1:26:04] are obviously doing well on now
>> and then we'll have a decision drafted
[1:26:07] and ready or reviewed because you're
going to send it to us ahead of time and
[1:26:10] we're all going to do homework and then
we're going to agree or disagree and
[1:26:14] we'll make amendments and then we'll
vote on it.
[1:26:19] » Yes.
>> All right. So we've got a a green flag
[1:26:21] right now.
>> Great. digging it. Appreciate the time.
[1:26:25] » All right. Thanks so much.
>> Thank you, everyone.
[1:26:26] » Thank you.
>> All right. Now, we've got our interview
[1:26:31] with Stephen Silski. Did I do good?
>> Awesome. First round.
[1:26:37] » All right. Come on up, Stephen. That
>> was way off from what I was going to
[1:26:40] say.
>> Me, too.
[1:26:42] » I've been sitting here practicing it for
the last 10 minutes.
[1:26:46] » Thank you, everyone.
>> Hello.
[1:26:48] » Hello. Thanks for having me. And we're
45 minutes late for the appointment,
[1:26:52] which is normal for planning.
>> Yeah. Welcome. Welcome to the planning
[1:26:55] board.
>> That wasn't the case last week. Last
[1:26:59] week's meeting wasn't
>> so I don't know
[1:27:04] if you I hope you didn't decide that you
were going to come forward because of
[1:27:07] that meeting because it's usually that
was a really really short one.
[1:27:12] So, please introduce yourself, tell us
where you live, uh, what's interesting
[1:27:16] for you with regards to the position
available and we'll go from there.
[1:27:20] » Sure thing. Um, good evening. Nice to
meet you all. Um, my name is Steve
[1:27:23] Silski. I'm a resident of 33 King Street
in Norol. Um, I've been here with my
[1:27:30] wife for the last 10 years. Um, and I've
been a really passionate commuter to the
[1:27:37] town, but haven't been involved at all.
Uh I woke up a few months ago and
[1:27:41] saying, you know what, this is my town.
This is my community. Um but I haven't
[1:27:46] put any thumbrint on this space. Uh I
don't really know what's going on in the
[1:27:51] town. I don't really know many people.
You know, every day I when I commute
[1:27:55] into Boston, I I sit stand around the
same 12 to 15 people silently sipping
[1:28:00] coffee, but don't have any relationship.
Um and I want to change that. So, um, I
[1:28:06] looked on the website, looked at
committee options and opportunities, and
[1:28:10] I saw that this was one of the options.
Um, I don't have a background in
[1:28:14] planning. Um, don't have the foggiest
idea about planning, but I do have a
[1:28:18] background in psychology. I'm an
organizational psychologist by
[1:28:22] education, which means I understand
systems and people and elements and
[1:28:26] friction points. And um, I think I could
offer some opportunity and some skills
[1:28:31] with that. Awesome.
[1:28:35] So, uh, any comfort level looking at
like some of the plans that you might
[1:28:40] have seen tonight?
>> Um, good at asking questions.
[1:28:44] » Okay,
>> that's important.
[1:28:46] » So, um, comfort low, but um, I'm eager.
I'm willing.
[1:28:50] » That's not a hard skill to pick up, I
will say.
[1:28:52] » Yeah, I I was able to follow what he was
doing and
[1:28:56] » Yeah,
>> that's a witness test. Good job.
[1:28:58] » Thank you. All right.
>> Which train are you on?
[1:29:03] Um the I leave my house at 6:30. So it's
the 642.
[1:29:07] » 6. Yeah. Nice. Okay. I I alternate
between the 6.
[1:29:11] » You hear that everybody? He's he's
looking for a coffee buddy in the
[1:29:13] morning.
>> No, I was just I Your face is vaguely
[1:29:17] familiar. So I think
>> Yeah. I'm usually on the platform.
[1:29:19] » Me too. Yeah. So
>> I'm I'm not
[1:29:25] work reading the Wall Street Journal.
You know,
[1:29:29] » I'm the guy who's trying to get to a
table as soon as possible. so I can hop
[1:29:33] on email before I get to the office.
>> Um, in your tenure here um in town, have
[1:29:40] you seen any of kind of like the
activities that the planning board has
[1:29:44] sponsored with regards to like the
master planning uh sessions or any of
[1:29:48] the um any other stuff? Okay,
>> I haven't. And that's actually one of
[1:29:51] the things I'm really interested in is
is, you know, driving back and forth to
[1:29:55] Route One, seeing all the construction,
um, wondering what's going on there. Um,
[1:30:01] to to learn about the the stop and shop
space and that there's actual movement
[1:30:06] there is is really great, too, cuz
talking to my neighbors about this stuff
[1:30:09] and what's going on. Really don't know.
>> So, um, I haven't,
[1:30:15] » but really curious. This is also a
learning opportunity for us to see how
[1:30:18] well like ours are getting out there,
right? Like
[1:30:22] » um you know, I know you both have been
to like several farmers markets,
[1:30:26] community day events and stuff like that
to try and get the the word out. And I
[1:30:30] know Chief Kenny had had a lot of stuff
going on with the fire place uh the fire
[1:30:34] department um the fireplace
>> the fire department's uh building. Um
[1:30:40] there was uh B1 committee work that
happened uh during that time frame as
[1:30:44] well.
um
[1:30:47] avid reader of the the town's newsletter
>> periodically.
[1:30:52] » Okay. Right. Any other questions?
>> Yeah, I haven't seen one in a while.
[1:30:57] » In your in your 10 years here, is there
something that looked to be a planning
[1:31:03] decision that you questioned or or
>> I've been questioning the space since I
[1:31:08] got here? Wondering
>> which space?
[1:31:10] » The uh
>> downtown here.
[1:31:11] » Downtown space. Okay. you know, you you
drive by and like this is such fertile
[1:31:16] space for something. There's opportunity
for community.
[1:31:20] » And that that's one of the things that
kills me the most is there isn't a space
[1:31:25] where I could trip over somebody and
say, "Oh, hey, you live on King Street,
[1:31:29] too, or whatever." Um, it doesn't
happen. I mean, the places you go to are
[1:31:34] Neados, you go to the Horse, or you go
to um Eaglebrook. Th those are three
[1:31:39] restaurants almost on the edge of town
that really don't serve as a social um
[1:31:46] hub space. Yeah.
>> If you would like to trip over people,
[1:31:49] Honey Bean, other side.
>> I went there today for lunch.
[1:31:52] » Um you Yeah, it's great.
>> I picked up a smoothie for my wife.
[1:31:55] » Yeah.
>> But what you're referencing is the third
[1:31:59] space, right? Which is like, you know,
we have our primary space and our
[1:32:02] secondary space, and it's usually work
and home. And then what's the third
[1:32:06] space? what's the right
>> Starbucks level or coffee shop that
[1:32:10] everybody and and yeah it's very
difficult for towns uh for anywhere to
[1:32:14] establish that it's a building block of
community.
[1:32:17] » Yeah,
>> it's really it's a general issue from
[1:32:19] what I've learned in my planning books
for the design of suburbs in general is
[1:32:24] you know
>> money doesn't solve it either. It
[1:32:26] » does not. No. Um, but yeah, we do need
to build community
[1:32:29] » and there's no I I I want to be careful
with you saying that because I don't
[1:32:34] think we have a shortage of community
because when it comes time for us to put
[1:32:36] together community events, we show up in
>> place making community.
[1:32:40] » Yeah, I think it's that part of the
aspect, right? Like the informal
[1:32:43] » the July fireworks, community day. Um
even uh the farmers market, you know,
[1:32:49] those are huge events for us. Um the
Thursday concerts on the common, those
[1:32:53] are all well attended. and Sunday they
were doing the socials on the town hill,
[1:32:57] you know, so there's no shortage of
community or people wanting to get
[1:33:00] together to do things. I think we're
just
[1:33:04] I don't think we have the human capital
to continuously plan and and always put
[1:33:08] those things on, right? And I think
there's other boundaries that we put
[1:33:11] upon ourselves either from a bureaucracy
perspective or otherwise that, you know,
[1:33:16] precludes us from using Pawn Street in a
certain way or from activating some of
[1:33:20] the other locations in town that we have
access to. Um, you know, not to mention,
[1:33:25] you know, dilapidated old town hall
properties that we could probably
[1:33:28] renovate and do something else with.
>> I tooured it last week. Love it.
[1:33:33] » Are you going to take it yet?
>> You're going to clean it out?
[1:33:35] » Yeah.
>> Love it.
[1:33:37] » Kevin Roach and I are going to go in
with a dumpster. Or actually, no. We
[1:33:40] decided construction trash bags. If you
would like to get to know people, you
[1:33:44] can come clean out a town hall with us.
>> When's this?
[1:33:47] » I don't know yet, but I'll let you know.
I live near you.
[1:33:51] » Knock and be like, "We're on our
Absolutely.
[1:33:53] » That's enough of me on my soap box,
though. Any other questions?
[1:33:56] » Yeah. And you're aware of the non-
voting status or the rules around the
[1:34:01] position? I assume you guys explain that
to
[1:34:04] » for the this specific
>> for the associate member.
[1:34:07] » Yeah. I don't think I'm trying to
recall. So in terms of the associate
[1:34:10] member,
the only thing I would say voting wise
[1:34:15] statutoily is if there's special permits
before the planning board, you'll be
[1:34:19] able the planning board has treated the
associate member like a member of the
[1:34:24] board for most everything input and so
forth and so on. But in terms of voting
[1:34:29] wise, it's only special permits.
>> Mhm.
[1:34:32] » And that's only if needed based on if
somebody had a missed a meeting or
[1:34:38] not really conflicts per se with this
board cuz they're don't have other
[1:34:42] business things going on. But anyway, so
that's where it comes. Now, I will say,
[1:34:45] however, there is still there is pending
I don't know if it's moving as of yet to
[1:34:51] make associate planning board members to
have full voting rights. I mean, you've
[1:34:55] been saying that since I was an
associate member, Rich.
[1:34:58] » Well, I keep saying
>> you're manifesting it. I'm manifesting
[1:35:02] that. But anyway, but it's a good
proving ground or a testing ground, a
[1:35:06] learning ground for other things.
>> You know what? That makes sense.
[1:35:10] » You think has changed over the year? I'm
sorry. Were you still
[1:35:12] » We have
>> I started off Yeah, I started off as
[1:35:16] » I was going to ask if you um would you
consider running,
[1:35:20] » you know, if you do this for a little
while as running for a full-time
[1:35:23] » seat? Yeah.
Um, I was just going to say I think over
[1:35:27] the years I think my
thought on what the associate position
[1:35:31] is might be different than 10 years ago,
you know, when the board members that
[1:35:36] were on then some of them anyway really
wanted you to have construction
[1:35:39] experience or planning experience or I
think it's it's a good way to get to
[1:35:42] know what's going on in town and it's
low risk. I started as an associate, you
[1:35:46] did too, right? and you
>> um and it was for me I thought it was a
[1:35:50] really good way to learn for a year you
know learn and see if you even like it
[1:35:54] because 3 years is a long time if you're
an elected member and you know so um
[1:35:58] that for me I was like oh great I can
start for a year I can listen to what's
[1:36:01] going on you can contribute um it's just
you know it's five votes typically in
[1:36:06] the off you know Rich mentioned the
special scenarios but um but it's it's
[1:36:10] kind of like a low pressure way to get
involved and to learn and then you get
[1:36:14] to meet other people from other boards
it just happens naturally and you get to
[1:36:17] know what they're doing. Um, so I think
it's a good way to get to know what's
[1:36:20] going on in town and then if you decide
like this isn't for me or maybe I think
[1:36:24] this other board would be better, you
can switch and go to another one. You
[1:36:27] know, it's just I think it's a low risk
and I don't think you need planning
[1:36:30] experience cuz a lot of the time you
just need curiosity and work ethic, you
[1:36:34] know,
>> try to sell him on it. He's here. He's
[1:36:36] » No, I'm just saying like I think over
time like I've heard of people that
[1:36:40] didn't get like people voted against
them for you.
[1:36:42] » Yeah. No, I I love the fact that you're
coming into it without kind of
[1:36:46] experience. I like the fact that you're
coming to it from like a systems
[1:36:49] thinking and organizational perspective
as well. I think that would be a huge
[1:36:54] benefit to be honest.
>> I appreciate you bringing up the
[1:36:57] limitations and I'm not here for the
authority yet.
[1:37:00] » No, no, totally. I just want to make
sure that
[1:37:02] » No, I appreciate the heads up though.
No, some people
[1:37:04] » it would be awkward for me to vote and
be like, "Oh, wait. Sorry."
[1:37:08] No, there is um there have been people
that haven't wanted to be the associate
[1:37:12] because they they would like to be able
to vote and I'm like I would give you my
[1:37:15] vote in a heartbeat. I would I just want
to do the work. I don't really you know.
[1:37:18] » So this year alone we scared away three
people. So
[1:37:22] » well that's because they told them what
it actually was. Nobody actually knew
[1:37:24] what the planning word was before they
asked me and then they weren't
[1:37:27] interested once they knew.
>> Should I have done more work here?
[1:37:33] You're fine with the the commitment the
you know once a month meeting
[1:37:38] » the countless emails at all hours of the
night
[1:37:41] » joking sounds great
>> never never reply to all
[1:37:45] » where I think that this and I'm not
saying this because I'm one of the
[1:37:48] people but I think that this is a very
impressive board and a a good group of
[1:37:53] people who are engaged and you know
thinking concretely about how to advance
[1:37:58] the town in the you know the best way
that respects where it's come from and
[1:38:02] you know where it's going and so I think
you know somebody that shares that um
[1:38:07] motivation and intention would be well
suited to to join as
[1:38:12] » I think it's a really important position
to be a steward of to acknowledge the
[1:38:16] historical like essence I mean we are an
incredible town when you look at the
[1:38:22] other towns and the development of other
towns we've held on to some really
[1:38:27] significant acquaintance you don't get
that
[1:38:29] » really post that Did you post that on
Facebook?
[1:38:32] » There's one specific group,
>> but but I I THINK
[1:38:38] » stay away.
>> I I'm your point is well taken. I
[1:38:43] » I forgot.
>> I appreciate that. If I could give you a
[1:38:45] heart emoji, I would.
>> You can.
[1:38:50] » All right. So, do we have to vote?
>> So, the nuts and bolts of it is Yeah,
[1:38:54] you do have to vote to a joint
appointment between the select board and
[1:38:58] the planning board. select board is
already approved.
[1:39:01] » No, we we to recommend you
>> first off on the uh and
[1:39:09] if you so choose to make the
recommendation, it's probably possible
[1:39:14] it might be able to be on their agenda
next
[1:39:18] Monday.
>> Monday the 14th.
[1:39:20] » The next the select board meets on the
14th next Monday. So it could be that
[1:39:24] quick.
>> All right. So then I am looking for a
[1:39:28] motion to recommend Steven Suzilski for
planning board member or planning board
[1:39:33] associate member to the select board.
>> So moved. Do
[1:39:36] » you have a second?
>> Second.
[1:39:38] » All those in favor.
>> I unanimous.
[1:39:41] » So one more vote and then we'll see you
in October hopefully.
[1:39:44] » Thanks Steve.
>> Pleasure meeting you.
[1:39:46] » Thank you.
>> Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
[1:39:48] Looking forward to it. Thanks for the
chair or vice chair could attend next
[1:39:51] Monday night. And in the meantime, um,
Steve, if you're looking for something
[1:39:55] to read, we have a 200 and something
page master plan on the town website.
[1:39:58] » Just put it into Claude and ask him all
the questions.
[1:40:02] » 200 and how many?
>> It's It's a really good read. Don't
[1:40:05] worry.
>> It's It's 200 something, though.
[1:40:07] » Read it right before bed.
>> Your sales pitch needs work.
[1:40:10] » I know. I know.
>> Um, Richard Rich, um, the meeting next
[1:40:15] Monday. Should I plan on attending that
or is that
[1:40:18] » Mark your calendar? We'll confirm that.
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:40:20] » Great.
>> Thank you all. Thank you.
[1:40:23] » Have a good night.
>> You too.
[1:40:26] » Um I will do my best. It's at what 7.
[1:40:32] » I'm sorry. What? What did you ask?
>> Can you and or I
[1:40:36] » chair vice company Steven to
>> Oh, I'm sorry. And then I started
[1:40:40] talking over you.
>> Yeah. You scared them off.
[1:40:43] » You can meet him by Zoom as well.
>> Yeah, you can by Zoom if you want. You
[1:40:46] know,
>> I'll be on a train from New York.
[1:40:49] » I mean,
>> so I will do my best. I mean, Dan joined
[1:40:52] from a plane the other day. Gary joined
from
[1:40:54] » That's illegal. Every other country
you've gone to.
[1:40:58] » I did not join the Zoom from a plane. I
watched the live Norfolk community
[1:41:03] television stream from a plane.
>> Okay. But you were on it.
[1:41:07] » But I has joined from like 2 a.m. from
>> France, Costa Rica, Aruba.
[1:41:14] I'm missing one.
>> Edinburgh.
[1:41:17] » It's the way to do it.
>> Scotland. So you think so you're on a
[1:41:21] train? You said
>> I'm on a train back from New York.
[1:41:24] » That's not
>> What time's your train live?
[1:41:26] » I don't know. I haven't booked it yet.
>> Conveniently, it's right around that
[1:41:29] time.
>> I know at this point I know of all the
[1:41:33] places where you can get enough service.
>> So I will I will offer this up to we on
[1:41:38] the 28th the select board. So still we
could if the schedule works better that
[1:41:43] way you can do on 28th and then you can
come and he still could be available for
[1:41:46] October. So I mean
>> otherwise
[1:41:48] » two bites of the apple.
>> Otherwise it's the 14th.
[1:41:51] » Yeah.
>> Okay. So if it needs to be if it's the
[1:41:53] 14th I can do it and then if you want to
do if the
[1:41:56] » I'll try and join on the 14th.
>> I've also joined from a hospital bed.
[1:41:59] » Yep.
>> I think I joined from from bed one time
[1:42:04] too when I was deathly ill but we needed
that last vote saying. So find that spot
[1:42:07] on the train.
>> I joined during co dam upgrade for a
[1:42:11] seller and just blind expense it and say
you didn't know the policy. It's very
[1:42:15] admirable that you're joining in the
hospital bed and the plane and that just
[1:42:20] shows the dedication.
>> You joined from
[1:42:23] » All right. Can we change topics now?
>> Master plan implementation update. How
[1:42:27] are we doing? Have we implemented it
yet?
[1:42:29] » Not yet.
>> All right. Next one. Zoning button. No.
[1:42:32] » Wait. No, there is. There's nothing.
>> Um, so I went to the select board last
[1:42:37] week and my
>> You can't go next week. Joking.
[1:42:40] » I said I'm joking. Um, I looked at my
calendar, but no, the um I went last
[1:42:46] week. Dan joined the way that he did
from the plane. Um,
[1:42:51] » the way that
>> the legal way,
[1:42:53] » the legal way
>> in compliance with all FAA rules.
[1:42:59] » Um, and my plan, my goal was to get a
vote from select board that they agree
[1:43:04] with our, you know, with what we're
doing and all the owners because now we
[1:43:08] have owners tied to the different
topics. and I created my charter for my
[1:43:13] category and showed them what it would
look like and then yours would obviously
[1:43:15] be similar. I'll send it out to you all
just so you can see. Um but um but I
[1:43:21] didn't tell Rob or Amanda that I was
expecting a vote until after the notice
[1:43:24] went out. So they are good with uh
select board. They're they like what we
[1:43:29] have done. Um but I have to go back for
a vote because I did not tell them I
[1:43:33] wanted a vote and so they didn't post it
that way. But that's fine.
[1:43:36] » Maybe they could do it on Monday.
>> Why do we need Why do we need the vote?
[1:43:39] I It's like just our
>> municipality stuff.
[1:43:45] » Have him do it Monday.
>> Yeah,
[1:43:46] » could do that.
>> Yeah.
[1:43:47] » Oh, wait. If I'm going to be there
anyway.
[1:43:48] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:43:49] » Save yourself a trip.
>> Serious
[1:43:53] Monday.
>> For the economic development committee
[1:43:56] work stream. Do I have to start like
recruiting people?
[1:43:59] » Oh, okay. So, they did ask about that.
They asked how we were going to recruit
[1:44:02] because typically if it was a
subcommittee, you know, it goes out on
[1:44:04] the website and it goes on the, you
know, the website where nobody really
[1:44:07] looks except um Steve.
And so I was hesitant to do it that way
[1:44:14] because I know that it doesn't, you
know, obviously we have to put it out on
[1:44:16] social media and um and it's not
officially a subcommittee. And so I was
[1:44:19] working through all of like how we do
that. And I figured we because we want
[1:44:23] people to just not be committed to a
certain term and they can't be if it's a
[1:44:26] working group and just have like
different people that have different
[1:44:29] skill sets that want to jump in and help
us with a certain task or something. I
[1:44:32] figured we could all just recruit our
own people however in conversations when
[1:44:36] we meet them. But then um I believe it
was Rob who said, "Well, we could put it
[1:44:40] out on the website and social media as
well so we can do both." Um, so I what I
[1:44:44] was thinking is as soon as we have their
official vote, then we could, you know,
[1:44:48] put an email out in social media or put
it on the website, whatever we decide to
[1:44:52] do, and say, "Here are the the owners
for these particular topics. Here's the
[1:44:55] focus area. Here's their town email. If
you'd like to, you know, help in any
[1:45:00] way, reach out." And I told them that we
would um be giving updates to our, you
[1:45:04] know, at the planning board probably
quarterly. It'll probably be more like
[1:45:07] rolling for us though as we have
updates. So could be monthly at a
[1:45:11] minimum quarterly. I think but and that
we would um give the select board an
[1:45:16] update as well um quarterly they would
like updates and they wanted to make
[1:45:21] sure that um we're working with you know
like the energy committee for example
[1:45:25] would fit into one of the categories I
think maybe it was infrastructure um but
[1:45:30] you know there's already committees that
exist and so they wanted to make sure
[1:45:34] that we're going to interface with them
and not kind of reinvent the wheel and
[1:45:37] create some silo and so yeah so I was
like no no no like we'll definitely be
[1:45:41] working with the with town employees,
with other, you know, boards,
[1:45:45] committees, whomever fits into that
category. Um, and I figured once it's
[1:45:49] all officially approved from the select
board, I can put something together,
[1:45:52] send it out to all of you to make sure
you're okay with it. Or if you have
[1:45:55] feedback, just before we push something
out to everyone saying if you're
[1:45:58] interested in this topic, reach out to
Allerie. If you're interested in this
[1:46:00] one, reach out to Dan. Um, and just, you
know, keep it kind of simple, informal,
[1:46:05] and see what we can do to make some
progress.
[1:46:09] » Yeah, sounds good.
>> I'm ready to go. I have my market data.
[1:46:11] I'm ready to run with this.
>> Nice.
[1:46:14] » I did something last week.
>> Market data.
[1:46:16] » Yeah.
>> Nice.
[1:46:17] » MEAPC had most of it already.
>> That's all right. You found it.
[1:46:19] » And then I just heard from PY that they
they're pulling it, too. So, I'm like,
[1:46:22] damn it. They could have done all the
work.
[1:46:27] » No, but I appreciate it because you had
a good lens in the conversation already.
[1:46:31] » Yeah.
>> It's not It's not good. The data is not
[1:46:34] good. But MAPC pointed that out before
like you're effectively a bedroom
[1:46:37] community. You've trained a whole
generation to go to other towns to do
[1:46:40] stuff like that.
>> True. That's why we need to get
[1:46:42] creative.
>> Yeah.
[1:46:43] » Little bits at a time.
>> But what I'm hearing is that people
[1:46:46] don't want to continue to do that.
Right.
[1:46:48] » Right.
>> Just the outcry for the ice cream store
[1:46:51] that opened up across from Four Kicks
was huge,
[1:46:53] » which twice.
>> Yeah. I heard it's good.
[1:46:57] » So, you know, it's that's the thing that
I don't want to miss out on.
[1:47:02] » No, completely. Yeah. It's just what
what are the do we have to take baby
[1:47:07] steps to get there? I guess is like I
don't want businesses to go out of
[1:47:10] business. So if we can find a lowerc
cost way for phase one
[1:47:15] I mean you're probably like our perfect
case study right here, right? Like you
[1:47:19] already have your business
>> and all of your you don't need to do you
[1:47:23] don't need the costs of a storefront,
you know, you already have it down pat
[1:47:26] and you have all these.
>> Yeah. So it's like
[1:47:29] » but alternatively what if you were just
providing goods to a established
[1:47:34] business that was there
>> that could sell to the state which is
[1:47:37] another layer.
>> There's also
[1:47:39] » Mhm.
>> So like my my vertical here is
[1:47:45] » economic development. I've also broken
record time talked about potential for
[1:47:51] co-op in town
to act as that
[1:47:56] » combining space. So, these are
conversations that I wish weren't
[1:48:01] quarterly.
>> Quarterly, like, but I understand
[1:48:05] they're rolling and like there's not
going to be a set like every month or
[1:48:08] every meeting there's an update, but
these are conversations where
[1:48:13] » I mean, I can't say the timing is right
cuz investment money is really hard to
[1:48:16] come by and getting anybody to
underwrite stuff is really hard.
[1:48:19] » Um, but like the to the point, the time
is now because this is what people want.
[1:48:24] So, and just I don't know if I was I
just want to make sure I said this
[1:48:28] clearly, but the um we will be working
in our own groups on our own whenever we
[1:48:33] want. You know, it could be weekly. It
could be every day if we want. Um
[1:48:37] » I'm going to live and breathe it.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:48:39] » Quit my job.
>> Do your free job, one of your free jobs
[1:48:43] full-time. Um but yeah, so we can be
working on in their working groups where
[1:48:47] you know wherever whenever and then we
just bring the updates back here so that
[1:48:51] we're communicating them out to anybody
that's you know watching our meetings.
[1:48:54] So I think it's good that we keep it on
the agenda every month and then you know
[1:48:57] select word we can just give them an
update quarterly and I don't know that
[1:49:00] we need to go to the meetings because
Tai is our liaison. So we could also
[1:49:04] just give her an update I think and then
she could bring it there back. Yeah.
[1:49:10] » It's cool though. I like that this is
the next step of the master plan cuz I
[1:49:14] remember when I moved here. It was post
the prior master plan and there was a
[1:49:19] part of the the town website that had
like a video they had created and but
[1:49:23] then there was no this is the fault of
anybody. It was just there just it is
[1:49:28] what it is. There was no like next step,
>> right? It was like this is what we want
[1:49:32] which is awesome.
>> There's no next step. There's no
[1:49:35] engaging with develop, you know, with
with the building owners and see if
[1:49:39] they'd actually tear down their building
and add a second floor emblem.
[1:49:42] » I keep hearing about this video. I've
never seen it. Do you have a a copy
[1:49:46] somewhere that you can share?
>> I'd love that.
[1:49:47] » It's well done.
>> Yeah,
[1:49:49] » it was well done.
>> That was when there's going to be a
[1:49:52] bridge.
>> Yeah.
[1:49:53] » Into the MBTA lot.
>> That's right.
[1:49:56] » Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. I've seen that.
[1:49:59] » We could have used that bridge.
>> Better serviced than Montreal.
[1:50:05] A broken bridge. We don't need another
broken bridge.
[1:50:08] » Is Is that Montreal thing still off of
Sharon's Avenue there? Did everybody
[1:50:13] drive? It's still there.
>> Just like
[1:50:15] » the podway.
>> Yeah, the pod.
[1:50:17] » Yeah. Hasn't
>> hasn't moved in years.
[1:50:20] » No sprouting on the pod yet.
>> Yeah.
[1:50:25] » Still the weirdest thing that's come
across this board, I think.
[1:50:29] » We're forward. We're progressive. What
can I say? All right. zonoting bylaw
[1:50:33] committee updates.
>> So, want to dive in or
[1:50:37] » Yeah, dive. I think two
main updates. Um the first is we had a a
[1:50:46] good discussion at our last meeting um
that Rich put together with Mr.
[1:50:51] Deplactoido. Is that right? Did I say
that right?
[1:50:53] » Um to kind of give us a perspective of a
developer, you know, in town, what what
[1:50:58] they're looking for, what moves the
needle, what doesn't. Um, and I think
[1:51:03] had a good got a good sense from him of,
you know, how to focus some of the the
[1:51:07] work of the the zoning bylaw review
committee. Um, part of the conversation
[1:51:12] was around the open space bylaw and
whether or not, you know, that would
[1:51:18] kind of have the effect that we wanted
it to. Um, and the feedback that we kind
[1:51:22] of got there was not nec not necessarily
that there were some kind of good pieces
[1:51:27] to it, but just kind of charging forward
with that. it was unlikely to kind of
[1:51:32] move the the needle on anything. So I
think our recommendation
[1:51:36] around that would be to not move forward
with that for the fall um town meeting.
[1:51:42] I think what we are what we are going to
do is kind of take that apart and take
[1:51:47] some of the pieces out of it and include
it in sort of a holistic view of you
[1:51:52] know different incentives or or things
that you could do like um density
[1:51:57] bonuses or you know stuff like that. Um
and kind of have a whole aim to have a
[1:52:03] more holistic suite of those things to
propose to the planning board to then go
[1:52:09] to the spring town meeting. Okay.
>> Um, so I think the the sort of next
[1:52:14] steps on on that are um we're kind of
all getting back together as a group at
[1:52:20] our next meeting to kind of put together
like a little bit of a matrix of like
[1:52:24] what are the different ideas or
components or kind of stuff that we
[1:52:28] think could move the needle or make a
difference. what does it look like now
[1:52:33] and what could we propose as a change to
further incentivize the you know right
[1:52:40] type of development that we want to see
>> and you are you basing that on kind of
[1:52:44] like what other tones have done and seen
success with as well or
[1:52:47] » it's it's a little it's kind of
everything like in my mind the first
[1:52:50] step is sort of like a like throw all
the ideas in there and then start to
[1:52:54] like wade through it and see what's
worked what hasn't worked and
[1:52:57] » I think um Mr. Placid O2 was saying like
basically what we were proposing is what
[1:53:03] all towns do and so we're I think we
need to get creative with that too
[1:53:07] because it's not you know he was talking
about like from a cost perspective for a
[1:53:10] developer there frontage like just even
that alone being 50 ft from the road
[1:53:16] versus 200 you save a ton of money in
utility connections right so just get
[1:53:20] thinking outside the box like that he
thought that what we had before was more
[1:53:23] like the copy paste of what towns
typically do but we're at a point where
[1:53:27] we need to start thinking about it
differently. Yeah.
[1:53:31] » Yeah. It would have been really if our
if our goal and intention behind it was
[1:53:35] to add more open space into town, it
would have been a decent thing to try to
[1:53:40] think about. But if our goal is to try
to, you know, incentivize developers to
[1:53:44] not go the 40b route, then that's not
exactly how to how to do it. Um, and
[1:53:50] while I hugely support any and all open
space in town, you know, I think one of
[1:53:55] the things we're really trying to do
with this is figure out how to get
[1:53:58] developers away from 40B into um
other types of of development and also
[1:54:05] looking at smaller house sizes. Is it 40
Y is that the
[1:54:09] » So, that's where it brought forward the
idea of the 40 Y is
[1:54:14] » yet another opportunity that could
accomplish some of the same goals.
[1:54:17] Right. But also on this the note of the
open space that we have in town, we're
[1:54:22] not necessarily good stewards of that
either. There's a ton of open space
[1:54:25] that's overgrown and there's no trail
access except for a sign or and there's
[1:54:30] no parking either in a lot of these
>> if there's even a sign.
[1:54:33] » If there's even a sign and so
>> and then and then some of the idea
[1:54:37] behind is just really how we develop.
Not necessarily that's going to be
[1:54:41] trails. It's like smaller development
footprint for leaving tracks that land
[1:54:48] open and undeveloped. It doesn't nec
have to always be a trail or just
[1:54:51] » Exactly. It could just open space isn't
always for human use.
[1:54:56] » Right. Right. Yeah. It was more Exactly.
habitat and so forth.
[1:54:59] » And I think that's the part that we keep
trying to attach to it as some sort of
[1:55:02] like a human purpose as opposed to just
it being preserved space.
[1:55:06] » Mhm. So really kind of gave credence to
kind of continue to move forward with
[1:55:11] the 40y program in terms of so that's
that was kind of I think the sense of
[1:55:17] that.
>> Yep. Yep. So, we'll be reconvening on
[1:55:20] that in September. And I think um
acknowledging that if we are going to
[1:55:24] kind of put together a comprehensive
um proposal, you know, we really got to
[1:55:31] get cracking and be back here to the
planning board by the very beginning of
[1:55:36] next year in order to potentially do
something for the spring town meeting if
[1:55:40] we if that's the direction we want to
go.
[1:55:44] » Any questions on that?
>> Nothing on that. I do see something in
[1:55:48] here around a moratorium on data
centers.
[1:55:50] » I'm about to get to the second one.
>> All right.
[1:55:52] » So, no questions on the first one.
>> Nothing on the first one.
[1:55:55] » All right. So, the second the second
update is we have discussed a potential
[1:56:00] for a moratorum on um data centers. And
the the issue that we're trying to
[1:56:05] tackle here is not to ban data centers
per se. It's to have an opportunity as a
[1:56:13] town to take a look at uh
take a look at having actual zoning. it.
[1:56:20] Whether or not we would want to have
actual zoning for data centers in town
[1:56:24] that, you know, are are kind of setting
this up in a way um where we do it kind
[1:56:31] of with diligence and with purpose and
not all of a sudden have a proposal come
[1:56:36] in the door and we've got no zoning,
we've got no rules, we got no no idea
[1:56:41] how to respond to it and the whole town
is is up in arms. So kind of taking an
[1:56:45] opportunity to say, you know, we're
going to formally say no data center
[1:56:50] proposals for either one year or two
years, and that's the place that we want
[1:56:53] feedback from from this group while we
actually study it as a potential use in
[1:56:58] town. Um, and get feedback, you know,
from people in the town whether or not
[1:57:04] if if one could be done in a way that
isn't super water intensive, falls
[1:57:11] within the noise ordinances.
um you know is located away from
[1:57:16] residences, stuff like that. Would we
ever actually entertain that? Because
[1:57:19] the reality is like it's a it's a huge
property and commercial tax opportunity
[1:57:26] with next to no impact on town services.
So I think
[1:57:33] the short way of saying it is we want to
be diligent. We want to take a little
[1:57:37] bit of time to look at this. We don't
want something to come in, you know,
[1:57:41] under the radar. um and completely blow
up it in the meantime.
[1:57:49] I agree.
>> Cool. And it may well be that we do this
[1:57:53] moratorum and then
we discuss as a planning board and we
[1:57:58] take input from residents and the final
decision is we're just not going to
[1:58:03] allow this in town and then we would
move forward accordingly with that. But,
[1:58:08] you know, we don't necessarily want to
preclude the opportunity to gather
[1:58:11] feedback to see if there could be a
right way to to to do that.
[1:58:17] » Where would viable space in town even be
for this? Aside from Southwood,
[1:58:22] » two things. One, Southwood is is the
one, but then two, like, you know, a
[1:58:26] data center isn't necessarily like like
Amazon or Meta or something like that is
[1:58:32] not going to come build a data center in
Norfol, right? like the amount of real
[1:58:35] estate that they need is like so
astronomical they would they wouldn't
[1:58:38] even come to New England never mind nor
>> we also wouldn't have like a traditional
[1:58:41] like water cooled one either we don't
have
[1:58:44] » but something but some some sort of like
smaller
[1:58:47] cloud storage operation
like that yeah or like something
[1:58:52] colllocated that you know all of a
sudden everybody could start to spin up
[1:58:57] that oh that's a data you know a data
center and then we don't have anything
[1:59:00] in the zoning or any way to to put kind
guard rails around it. Um,
[1:59:05] » so you get the tax improvements of a
last mile distribution center without
[1:59:09] the
>> traffic. Traffic. Yeah.
[1:59:13] » Cool.
>> And again, you know, not saying not
[1:59:16] prejudging the outcome, just ensuring we
have the opportunity to consider it.
[1:59:21] » I think that's the important piece
because along with the tax revenue, you
[1:59:24] also get like highly skilled labor as
well. That could be like, you know,
[1:59:29] students from Tri County, you know,
their future electricians, plumbers,
[1:59:34] you've got, you know, technicians, all
of that. That's
[1:59:36] » it's a huge thing for the building
trades for sure.
[1:59:39] » Absolutely.
[1:59:42] » So, I think there's two things that we
wanted to run by this group. One is the
[1:59:48] definition as proposed and two is the
timeline, whether it should be one year
[1:59:53] or 2 years. And I think Rich remind me
we've more or less like lifted and
[1:59:58] shifted from what Mansfield had put
together.
[2:00:01] » Yeah, we we built off the moratorium and
Mansfield had done with adding the
[2:00:09] definition. So tell so as we kind of got
into discussion about this
[2:00:14] one approach which the committee didn't
recommend was to just create a
[2:00:18] definition kind of comprehensive
definition go in prohibit it outright
[2:00:23] use table and then do the study and then
come back and change it later on. Um
[2:00:29] that wasn't the preferred method. So,
but in that process, the town council
[2:00:34] forwarded data center definition which I
put into the one that came from
[2:00:39] Mansfield modeled after that. So,
>> what's our um
[2:00:43] » with the exception of definitions, it's
exactly what was in the one from
[2:00:48] Mansfield that got approved by the AG.
>> What's our hit list look like for the
[2:00:52] next 12 months? Like if we're talking
timelines, right? Like we've been
[2:00:55] » So, that's why I was advocating for 2
years.
[2:00:57] » I would not want it to go that long. It
doesn't have to go that long.
[2:01:02] » We can pull it and
>> lift it.
[2:01:03] » You could do it sooner.
>> Okay.
[2:01:06] » But
>> but what's the mechanism by which
[2:01:08] lifting it?
>> Huh?
[2:01:09] » What is the mechanism by which it gets
lifted? Is it a town meeting?
[2:01:13] » You have to go back to town meeting to
lift it early, which I think would be
[2:01:16] very difficult to to do.
>> But we could also extend it
[2:01:20] » by the same mechanism.
>> Right.
[2:01:22] » So I mean for me like
>> I would like to put the pressure on us
[2:01:26] to get something done within a year to
be honest. That's where my head is
[2:01:29] because like I think to this the point
Dan was making earlier like there is
[2:01:33] potential upside to this. It's not a
definite upside but
[2:01:38] we're we're smart and we've moved fast
before.
[2:01:44] You don't you don't trust us. You don't
believe in us.
[2:01:49] » It's not that I don't believe
>> I'd like I'd like us to have this on the
[2:01:54] fall town warrant. Well, that's what
we're aiming to do is
[2:01:57] » and I I'd like to go for a year. That's
my vote.
[2:02:01] » I'm I'm totally fine for a year. I I
think the only other thing is if there
[2:02:05] was concern you could go like instead of
going two years, if you went a year and
[2:02:10] a half
um
[2:02:14] » 18 months,
>> 18 months, you'd be kind of better
[2:02:17] aligned with a town meeting schedule to
either to extend it at the end of that.
[2:02:23] I mean, you went to the spring of 2018.
I could see that versus cuz so basically
[2:02:27] we
>> But then that pulls us into the whole
[2:02:29] fiscal conversation again and then we
have money on the brain.
[2:02:32] » Hold on. Let's play it out though,
right? So the fall is is challenging in
[2:02:35] general with the zoning because you're
coming out of the summer. So you're
[2:02:39] developing a bylaw discussion point of
the what the the bylaw is about to do
[2:02:44] the homework ahead of time to educate
about it is tough in the fall. Mhm.
[2:02:48] » So
that means you'd be like trying to get
[2:02:52] this done next fall and you're coming
out of the summer from next year and if
[2:02:57] you're thinking about trying to do 40
and some other things in the spring of
[2:03:00] 2027
>> alternatively at that point we're
[2:03:02] looking at saying hey you know what we
don't have enough yet we're going to
[2:03:05] push it out another year
>> just can't come in soon
[2:03:09] » or you could do it till you could do it
to December 31st 2020 or January 1st
[2:03:15] 2028 and then if you're not far enough
at the fall 27 town meeting of where you
[2:03:22] want to be. You could add a year to it.
So, you're at least there like a couple
[2:03:28] months right before you could have a
pretty solid sense check of where you're
[2:03:32] going to be
>> in that time.
[2:03:33] » Yeah. We should know if we're going to
make it or not by then. Yeah.
[2:03:36] » And then that's like 14 months instead
of a year, right?
[2:03:43] » Sounds reasonable.
>> Okay. The other thing I'll note, you may
[2:03:48] or may not seen that the governor issued
an executive order in Massachusetts on
[2:03:52] on data centers today. Um what she said
was you're not going to get state
[2:03:57] permits if you don't have community
support. So basically like in order to
[2:04:00] get your permits from the state, you
need a a community benefits agreement
[2:04:04] that's signed on by a town. Um I don't I
don't think that that should change our
[2:04:09] approach here um with the moratorum to
to talk about the the zoning. No, but
[2:04:16] what was I tell you politically?
>> That it's a voting year.
[2:04:19] » That it's an election year. Yeah.
>> Well, aside from that,
[2:04:25] » not the answer Rich.
>> No, I think it's
[2:04:28] » maybe there's some lessons learned.
>> It's take your time. I know you want to,
[2:04:32] you know, whatever. We could we can go.
I just I don't know what the
[2:04:40] We'll go with what you want. I my only
hesitation is and I haven't had the
[2:04:44] opportunity to discuss with councils and
maybe it's fine but generally speaking
[2:04:49] moratoriums are for a set period of time
just go keep going for extensions. So I
[2:04:53] wonder about the legal grounds of like,
all right, we get to hear, well, we're
[2:04:57] not quite ready and we go extend,
>> but you don't have to extend it. You
[2:05:00] could do a new moratorum
next fall.
[2:05:04] » That's
if you're worried about like not
[2:05:07] extending it. You just take another
one-year moratorum effective January
[2:05:10] 1st, 28 to next fall town meeting.
>> Yeah. It's interesting. Is that just
[2:05:15] like segmentation? You you did it once
and then you're going back and stuff.
[2:05:19] It's a
>> I mean we do that with a lot of things,
[2:05:21] » huh?
>> We do that with a lot of things.
[2:05:24] » Well, moritium moratorium is a different
>> Oh, gotchaally per se. Yeah, legally,
[2:05:29] but but would you say January of 28?
>> No, 27.
[2:05:34] » No, 28. Yeah. Yeah.
>> It would end January 1st, 2028.
[2:05:46] I mean at the rate of 28
>> I put in December. So I went
[2:05:52] » at the rate of development of how
everything's going from a technology
[2:05:57] perspective within 5 years the data
center is going to be an appliance in
[2:06:00] your house. Right? So like if there's
something that we want to try and do
[2:06:05] from like a a tax benefit perspective is
going to be to allow something like this
[2:06:10] but within the guard rails that we're
describing, right? Like it's just it's
[2:06:15] going to continue to get closer and
closer to us and we want to be able to
[2:06:18] like relegate how it comes and it's not
something that we want to take our time
[2:06:22] on. It's something that we have to act
quickly on. And I think you can always
[2:06:26] add I I feel my non lawyer lawyer point
of view on this is that you can you can
[2:06:33] add another moratorium and you can't
you're not going to be able to end it
[2:06:36] early or or reduce it. And so
>> I think if you had a bylaw that it's
[2:06:43] ready to go to adopt it
sooner you wouldn't think if you had
[2:06:49] let's just say for discussion you had
the bylaw ready for the spring
[2:06:54] » 27
>> 27
[2:06:57] not 27 is not a good one that that's a
bad example but if you do have it ready
[2:07:02] for the fall
>> well that's a question for to town
[2:07:05] council does a bylaw override a
previously passed moratorum
[2:07:09] So you would really two votes there. One
would be the adoption to first would be
[2:07:14] the remove the moratorum then then to
vote the bylaw.
[2:07:18] » But that's just that makes it a bigger
hurdle to pass to to end the morator
[2:07:25] bylaw.
>> Pass the bylaw. Can you pass the bylaw
[2:07:28] to a date like to the January 1st 2028
in the
[2:07:32] » vote? Yeah, I've definitely seen like
>> because then anybody who's like
[2:07:36] interested
>> would know what's coming like what date
[2:07:39] it would be on the table.
>> Well, I think there's there's consensus
[2:07:44] to to put forth a moratorum for the
fall. Is that true?
[2:07:47] » I think we're looking at a moratorum of
14 months.
[2:07:50] » Mhm.
>> Roughly.
[2:07:51] » I'd rather
do that than not do anything.
[2:07:56] » Yeah. And then if you can rich ask town
council if we found ourselves in a
[2:08:01] position next fall where we felt like we
needed a good chunk of more time could
[2:08:05] we either extend that moratorum or pass
a fresh one-year moratorum to add on to
[2:08:10] that.
>> Okay.
[2:08:15] » But I agree. I think we should really
try in 14 months to understand is this
[2:08:19] something that we don't want to see here
or is this something where under the
[2:08:25] right conditions with the right guard
rails we would be interested in at least
[2:08:30] reviewing and potentially improving.
[2:08:36] Now, the companion to that or this
discussion, oh
[2:08:41] was I sent you an email out of checking
your schedules.
[2:08:45] You would need to hold a special
meeting.
[2:08:47] » You love these.
>> Oh, I forgot to respond to that.
[2:08:49] » I don't even understand this.
>> I didn't see it either, Rich.
[2:08:55] » I did. I just ignored it.
>> Oh, well, at least I appreciate your
[2:09:00] honesty.
>> I just want to be transparent.
[2:09:03] » Transparent that you ignore. Okay. Now,
>> no, I did see it. I just
[2:09:06] » I just want you to know why that's true.
Well, if you read the email, but
[2:09:10] » when did you
>> When did you send that?
[2:09:12] » I remember reading it. No, I don't
remember.
[2:09:13] » It's uh it's called fall zoning bylaws.
It was sent on September 2nd, 6 days
[2:09:18] ago.
>> Oh, you tricked me.
[2:09:23] » The dates I would that Rich would like
us to consider is September 26th,
[2:09:26] September 30th, or October 1st.
>> Oh, you're killing me.
[2:09:29] » Wait a minute. Aren't I
>> September 28th Music Festival, man?
[2:09:35] Well, you mean 28? Isn't the 28th the
steering committee meeting?
[2:09:39] » Yeah, but I think we could squeeze those
in.
[2:09:42] » But I'm just saying your email said the
dates I would like you to consider as
[2:09:45] September 28th, September 30th, and
October 1st.
[2:09:48] » Gary just said the 26th.
>> I can't do the 30th. That's the last.
[2:09:52] Sorry,
>> I can't read.
[2:09:54] » I can only do the 28th.
>> I can do the 28th. I can try to hustle
[2:09:59] back from Ocean City, Maryland by car
and be here on time.
[2:10:04] » Well, so the other opt Well,
so I wasn't necessarily proposing
[2:10:11] proposing it via Zoom, honestly, cuz I
didn't want to compete against meeting
[2:10:15] room.
>> That's fine.
[2:10:16] » You know, so this would be a Zoom only.
It's
[2:10:19] » 6:30.
What time is our
[2:10:25] thing? Is this uh seven?
>> What time does it mean? Oh my goodness.
[2:10:33] Wasn't it a little bit earlier?
>> I thought we said seven. So Mike could
[2:10:36] eat dinner.
>> I think he wanted to go later. That's
[2:10:38] right.
That's correct. Mike wanted to go to 7,
[2:10:42] not 6:30.
>> You want it to be a seven?
[2:10:45] » No, this Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This
is a different
[2:10:47] » different convers. But I would I would I
would move that meeting before I would
[2:10:54] not take this. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. That meeting.
[2:10:58] » Yeah. Like we could try to find like we
could pick another date later in the
[2:11:01] week or something if the 28th works for
>> the planning board.
[2:11:05] » Correct.
>> The 28th is was the next zoning bylaw
[2:11:11] subcommittee. Got it. That's all. Let's
assume just put a message on
[2:11:16] note on Zoom.
She wrote something. Was she ready?
[2:11:24] » She put something in chat.
[2:11:30] » I can't read that.
>> So, which day
[2:11:31] » I have the meeting at 8:00 p.m. on the
20 6 p.m.
[2:11:35] » 6 p.m. on the 29th.
>> What's up?
[2:11:39] » Oh, 6 p.m. I can't do 6 p.m.
>> Oh, so
[2:11:41] » Oh, wait. Is there a select board
meeting?
[2:11:43] » Oh, that's what I knew.
>> That's what That's what it is. We are
[2:11:45] going to meet the 29th because the
select boards meeting on Monday.
[2:11:48] » Yeah.
>> Thank you, Sue.
[2:11:51] » Thank Thank you. All right. So, the 20th
works for the plan, right?
[2:11:54] » 28th.
>> Okay. All right.
[2:11:56] » Is that still good?
>> That's still No, that's good.
[2:11:59] » Okay.
>> And then on that meeting,
[2:12:00] » it'll be at the same time as the select
coordinator.
[2:12:03] » Yeah, which is fine. We'll be on Zoom,
>> right? You'll be on Zoom. And then on
[2:12:07] that meeting, we will add the
recommendations for Norway Farms Drive.
[2:12:14] Okay. Okay.
>> All right. So, we're just So, we're
[2:12:17] talking about
>> Sorry, I'm trying to
[2:12:19] » September 28th.
>> Thank you.
[2:12:20] » What time?
>> 6. Did we say 6:30?
[2:12:24] » 6:30.
>> 6:30.
[2:12:28] » Oh, by Zoom.
>> I'll make it work.
[2:12:30] » What's that?
>> Nothing. Oh, good.
[2:12:32] » I can do seven if I'll make it work.
That's fine.
[2:12:34] » If it's zoom, whatever.
>> Yeah, if it's zoom, then I can take it
[2:12:37] from wherever.
>> Yeah,
[2:12:39] » except the plane.
>> Definitely be zoomed.
[2:12:44] barely this way.
>> I will say I saw a guy across the aisle
[2:12:48] from me was on an actual Zoom.
>> Really?
[2:12:50] » Yeah.
>> How do you
[2:12:53] » just like listen like listening in like
didn't say anything but
[2:12:57] » what?
>> How do you do it?
[2:12:59] » You Wi-Fi.
>> You just do it. They they don't block
[2:13:02] it. They tell you not to.
[2:13:07] » Don't get yourself taken out by scared
people. Is that what I'm saying?
[2:13:10] » All right. Yep.
>> All the time.
[2:13:13] » All right. Anything else on
any?
[2:13:16] » Uh, no, that's it for that. All right.
Any plan updates?
[2:13:19] » All right. So, just so from a process
perspective,
[2:13:23] » so yeah, process I need the planning
board to vote to recommend
[2:13:28] data set moratorum and change the date
because I have a
[2:13:33] » you have December 31st of 2028. We have
to vote that now without seeing uh the
[2:13:40] moratorium written up.
>> It's it's in your share folder.
[2:13:45] » I thought that's what we were meeting
for.
[2:13:48] » No, all the
>> No, you're this is accelerated schedule.
[2:13:52] So, I put together the draft language
for you to vote to recommend tonight.
[2:13:56] » Yep.
>> And we would just have to swap the date
[2:14:00] out.
[2:14:04] » All right. So knowing that right
>> 90% of us didn't read this yet.
[2:14:12] » You're not prepared. Do you think not?
>> No. Not.
[2:14:19] » Okay.
>> Well, 90% would mean that a half a
[2:14:23] person.
[2:14:26] Don't judge.
[2:14:31] Um, so what's the feeling from the
board? Do you guys want to go through
[2:14:34] and read this now or do you want to vote
on this in conjunction?
[2:14:39] » Well, so you I can help you out a little
bit if you don't mind.
[2:14:43] » Please.
>> This is sponsorship.
[2:14:46] » You have a chance to read it if you want
to make amend adjustments. You could do
[2:14:51] that too. So it's not like closed out.
It's just to start the bill process.
[2:14:56] Remember conjunction to two.
Um
[2:15:01] » schoolhouse rock.
>> Yeah. Come on now. We all know that.
[2:15:05] » I'm I'm going to need you to do a
rendition of it for me. Please don't
[2:15:08] remind me.
>> Just to be sure.
[2:15:12] » All right, that's enough.
Never mind.
[2:15:15] » I thought it was conjunction junction.
>> What's your
[2:15:18] » What's your function?
>> Yeah, I'm thinking of the bill. But I'm
[2:15:20] » just a bell.
>> Just a bill.
[2:15:24] » If we had an audience, we lost them.
>> Okay. So, knowing that we can still edit
[2:15:32] this moving forward,
>> I'm fine with making a recommendation.
[2:15:37] » Me, too.
>> Then we can read it and let you know if
[2:15:40] we have any
>> Yeah.
[2:15:41] » recommendations.
>> All right. Looking for a motion to
[2:15:43] approve.
>> Sponsor.
[2:15:46] » Sponsor
a article for temporary moratorium on
[2:15:50] data centers.
>> So move.
[2:15:52] » Second.
>> Second.
[2:15:53] » All those in favor? I
>> with a January 1st
[2:15:58] » January 1st 2028 expiration
>> with a January 1st 2028 expiration
[2:16:04] » to that maybe a second motion or a
friendly motion sorry
[2:16:08] » friendly amendment
>> friendly amendment
[2:16:10] » to the moratorum
>> excellent that's super
[2:16:14] » thank you a second
>> second
[2:16:16] » all those in favor I
>> super
[2:16:21] » super okay uh town planner updates
>> uh Uh, I don't have any.
[2:16:26] » Um, now that we have a DPW person, are
we finding that other guy
[2:16:30] » with that property?
>> 28 Long
[2:16:32] » 28 Long Meadow.
>> Uh, I got to sit down with DPW director
[2:16:36] and conservation agent and town council
and town initi.
[2:16:40] » But they still continue to do what
they're doing over there.
[2:16:43] » Not really, cuz they already did a whole
new one.
[2:16:45] » It's all done now.
>> So now it's just about building. No,
[2:16:48] » no, it's just there's a lot of uh
walking horses by my house mostly now
[2:16:55] and I don't mind it, but my neighbors do
cuz
[2:16:57] » What's that?
>> And controversy over the horses sitting
[2:16:59] on the street.
>> Yes, that's why. Exactly. Why? Yeah,
[2:17:01] they walk by my house.
>> Sure. It's cute.
[2:17:05] » But I didn't realize that it was
bothersome to so many.
[2:17:08] » Oh, there horses do that.
>> Oh, yeah.
[2:17:11] » Well, so just in general, horses.
>> I mean, all animals,
[2:17:14] » there's a book about this.
[2:17:20] I got you.
>> All right.
[2:17:21] » So, yeah, that that was the only tough
crowd right there.
[2:17:26] » It's getting late, folks. Um 2020 states
meeting schedule typically second
[2:17:30] Tuesday of the month. We've got October
13th as our next well the September
[2:17:33] meeting that we just agreed to on the
28th and then following that up on
[2:17:39] » October 13th.
>> Yep.
[2:17:41] » Mhm.
>> That's
[2:17:43] » why the 13th.
>> Do we have to agree?
[2:17:44] » Did you have a vote on?
>> Yeah.
[2:17:47] Wait, why? Hold on before we get that.
Why are we on the 13th instead of the
[2:17:50] 12th?
>> Cuz it's the
[2:17:53] » What?
>> We don't meet on Mondays.
[2:17:55] » What's up?
>> 12th. Oh, I'm looking at 2027.
[2:17:59] » Wow, you're way ahead.
>> Yeah. So, that that
[2:18:02] Jesus, did I do what I think I did? Did
I?
[2:18:06] » Did you change your whole time to the
wrong year?
[2:18:10] » Yeah.
>> Time travel
[2:18:12] to the future.
>> Hold on. Did you take a supersonic jet?
[2:18:16] » Am I free on the 28th?
>> What are we doing on the 28th?
[2:18:20] » Nothing, apparently.
>> No.
[2:18:24] » Guess what?
>> We just said we're
[2:18:27] » No. No.
>> Yeah. Nothing.
[2:18:29] » I got Oh, wait. Hold on. Sorry.
>> On the 28th at 6:30, we're having our
[2:18:35] meeting on the public hearing for the
>> the bylaws and the Nor the vote on the
[2:18:42] Norway farms.
>> Yes. And then on the 29th, it's
[2:18:46] » Do I have time to advertise that?
>> We got almost
[2:18:52] » 3 weeks.
[2:18:56] » It's all ready to
>> Does it usually need two?
[2:19:02] » It's got to go out.
>> Public size
[2:19:05] » before Friday.
>> Hey, you have time.
[2:19:11] » Not a lot of time.
>> Uh, no. I got to get it out this week.
[2:19:14] » Yeah.
>> Okay.
[2:19:16] » All right. 28th still works. Fine. Good.
Um, so the 13th, the 10th, and the 8th,
[2:19:22] how are we feeling about these 10:30
meetings?
[2:19:25] » 10:30. 6:30. I feel horrible about
10:30.
[2:19:30] » Every Monday, we're going to make a
blood pack and we're going to think
[2:19:33] about what comes out of our mouth before
we say it cuz I have so many different
[2:19:38] dates and times that are wrong in
numbers and words.
[2:19:42] It's been a long day.
>> Meetings November 10th.
[2:19:46] » Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[2:19:47] » Oh, we got to change our meeting.
>> So, you do have to change them.
[2:19:50] » You don't have to change that.
>> But, um,
[2:19:52] » before you go there, October is 6:30.
Okay.
[2:19:54] » 6:30.
>> Mhm.
[2:19:56] » Yeah.
>> I like 6:30.
[2:19:58] » You have to vote.
>> It worked fine for me.
[2:20:01] » And then we'll
>> You do need to vote it though.
[2:20:02] » All right. But hold on. Are we just
doing a peace meal again? Like where we
[2:20:06] vote one or two of these or are we just
moving it?
[2:20:08] » I'm safe. Move it. By memory serves, we
voted the schedule for the year earlier
[2:20:12] on. Is that right? I think
>> yeah. Um
[2:20:18] » I'm pretty sure doesn't matter. It could
be. Do
[2:20:21] » you want to just vote it 6:30 till the
end of the end of the year and then when
[2:20:25] we come out with a new schedule?
>> All those in favor of moving the rest of
[2:20:29] our meetings to beginning at 6:30 as
opposed to 700 p.m. Please.
[2:20:34] » I need a second. Someone I got to get
out of here.
[2:20:38] So moved. So moved. Right.
>> A motion. Second.
[2:20:41] » Second.
>> All those in favor?
[2:20:43] » I. All right. This is deteriorating
appropriately.
[2:20:46] » But now we have to move the meeting on
the table, right?
[2:20:49] » Fantastic. Yeah. So, November 10th.
>> Move it to the 17th.
[2:20:53] » I am in Florida.
>> I think we have to go to the Well, we
[2:20:58] can't do the third cuz that's election
day.
[2:20:59] » Yeah.
>> If you guys do the 17th, I'll try to
[2:21:02] dial in.
>> But don't we want to try and get one
[2:21:05] before town meeting?
>> Oh. Oh. Oh. Right. right here.
[2:21:09] » Do you want Is the ninth too close?
>> Oh, no.
[2:21:14] » Do we I mean, do we really We don't
necessarily have to meet right before
[2:21:18] like anything that's
>> No, anything will be done before that.
[2:21:23] » Yeah, but we typically like we go
through flyers and whatever else just to
[2:21:27] make sure like presentations are set and
all that stuff.
[2:21:30] » So, you could be on a Monday, right?
>> What about the fourth?
[2:21:35] » Wednesday.
>> Yeah.
[2:21:38] Uh
>> cuz Tuesday's election day.
[2:21:41] » No, that's the conserv conservation.
>> Yeah, conservation meets in here.
[2:21:46] » Well, we can just do Zoom.
>> Oh,
[2:21:50] » yeah. But
then you have to be in two places at
[2:21:54] once. Do you do conservation?
>> I depending on what
[2:21:58] » I do have to do that one.
>> Yeah.
[2:22:00] » Yeah. We have the pond treatment
>> meeting. Go between the two rooms. I
[2:22:06] can't do the second
and then that brings us back to October.
[2:22:11] So I don't know if that's worth it. So
then literally I can't do the ninth
[2:22:14] either.
So you can plan around me then.
[2:22:25] Fifth. No. Nope. Okay.
[2:22:36] And you said the ninth you can't do,
right?
[2:22:38] » I can't know, but I'm happy to take
myself out of it and provide comment
[2:22:44] ahead of time.
>> We have a I have another option for you.
[2:22:49] » Let's get to October
>> and then choose
[2:22:52] » and let's
>> see where we're at.
[2:22:54] » See where we're at.
>> What needs to happen? That makes sense.
[2:22:56] That's fine.
>> Only if Betsy is okay thinking that she
[2:22:58] has to put up the notice 3 weeks later.
We're good.
[2:23:02] » Feel like
>> we should do create a claude skill that
[2:23:06] auto builds powerpoints based off of
data that we give it and then those that
[2:23:11] last meeting is not necessary.
>> It can it could do that.
[2:23:15] » Yeah. But like using your color scheme
and everything
[2:23:18] » put the template in there.
>> Yeah.
[2:23:20] » I'm pretty sure that's how my husband
does all of his presentations now.
[2:23:24] » Some other unanticipated new business.
>> No, we lost Dan.
[2:23:32] I'm looking for a motion to adjurnn.
>> So, do
[2:23:36] » I have a second?
>> Not doing it without Dan.
[2:23:39] » Oh, god damn you. I'm kidding. Sorry. Is
that a second for me?
[2:23:42] » That was a second.
>> All those in favor?
[2:23:44] » I
>> I
[2:23:45] » All right. Thanks everybody. Have a good