[0:05] This is NHTV2, North Haven Government Television, a service of North Haven
[0:10] Community Television.
[0:13] The following program is brought to you through the support of
[0:19] the Town of North Haven.
[0:24] All right. Good evening, everyone.
[0:26] I'd like to have everyone take their seats, please.
[0:28] I'm Mike Freed, North Haven's Selectman, and welcome to our October Board of
[0:32] Selectman meeting. Joined as always by our second Selectman, Mr.
[0:36] William Piper, and our third Selectman, Mr. David Cohen.
[0:40] Let's rise for our pledge of allegiance.
[0:43] I pledge allegiance
[0:44] To the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it
[0:49] stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
[0:59] Before we get started, I want to have a motion made, and I want to explain
[1:05] why I'm going to make this motion to change the order of this agenda.
[1:10] As many of you know, I have a very good relationship with the media, so I have
[1:14] Channel Eight coming in here. Channel Eight will be here for the drone portion of
[1:19] this meeting. I want them to come in. Preston Stover's going to be here.
[1:23] We work very closely together, because I'm going to be making a presentation so
[1:27] that not only everyone here, everybody on North Haven TV, and everybody watching on
[1:32] Channel Eight is going to be updated in terms of what's happening on this Amazon
[1:35] drone issue here in North Haven. So Preston Stover will be here at
[1:41] 7:12. So I'm going to make a motion to amend this agenda to reverse the order of
[1:47] this. So item number four, which is the first Selectman's overview, which is this
[1:52] presentation I'm going to give, goes after item number five, which now
[1:58] will become four, which is the veterans exemption.
[2:02] Is there a motion? I'm making the motion.
[2:05] Before we, and if-
[2:07] Yes
[2:07] ... if the press isn't here yet, we could push that. You want to push it even more?
[2:12] Yes.
[2:12] Yeah, I would agree with that. That maybe, we have all these other resolutions and-
[2:17] We can do the bonding.
[2:18] Yeah, maybe we'll do the bonding. Yes.
[2:19] Do some of it.
[2:21] And then there's a second part to this.
[2:22] We agree to-
[2:23] Yes. And I'll second your-
[2:25] Yes
[2:25] ... your motion here to
[2:28] move the agenda around, and I guess we'll be a little flexible-
[2:31] Yes
[2:32] ... with which items we address first.
[2:34] We'll, of course, get to every item on the agenda, but we'll move it around as
[2:38] necessary and wait for press to get here.
[2:41] And in conjunction with this, what we're going to do to wait for Channel Eight to
[2:45] come in, we will have public comment after I deliver this presentation.
[2:51] And we'll also have public comment to the issue about the petition of the firetruck
[2:57] rather than wait till the end of the meeting for public comment.
[3:00] We'll still have public comment on other issues.
[3:03] So what we're going to be proposing here in this motion through the discussion is
[3:06] that I'm having Channel Eight come in, and we will allow public comment while
[3:11] Channel Eight's here on this drone issue that I'm going to present and give
[3:15] everybody an update, and we'll do the same thing on the petition on the firetruck.
[3:21] Right. And to clarify, so for each, I'm totally on board with that.
[3:26] A lot of folks have asked us to do that generally, that they would like to comment
[3:30] on agenda items before we get to the end of the meeting.
[3:33] So with respect to the drone update, folks will be able to come up and speak to it
[3:38] so it gets recorded,
[3:40] so the media can see it. And then also agenda item six, which is the petition with
[3:45] respect to the new fire engine.
[3:48] Yeah.
[3:48] The canceled fire engine. So we'll do both of those.
[3:51] And in respect of each, once that agenda item's done, we'll go to the next one, and
[3:56] people will be able to speak to that as well.
[3:58] And then at the end of the night, please don't come back up and raise those two
[4:02] agenda items. So those will be specific and exclusive to those two agenda items.
[4:07] And then at the end of the night, when we have normal public comment, it'll just be
[4:11] for anything other than those two agenda items.
[4:14] Want to talk about the timeline?
[4:15] Yes.
[4:16] Plus, I think we're going to also ask that you, so that everybody has a chance to
[4:20] speak, you limit your comments to no more than five minutes like you would at a
[4:24] town meeting or a special town meeting.
[4:26] And then if you have more comments to make after everybody has spoken, then you
[4:30] could get back up on either of those agenda items and speak again.
[4:34] So this way, at least,
[4:38] as opposed to somebody talking for 15 minutes, you can still talk for 15 minutes,
[4:42] but you need to do that in five minutes and let other people speak.
[4:46] And then ultimately, if there's nobody left, finish your comments.
[4:49] I think that's a fair thing to do as opposed to dominating the floor, and that's
[4:54] exactly what we do for a town meeting.
[4:58] Yeah.
[5:00] Okay. That works. We'd be able to-
[5:02] And hopefully that takes care of it.
[5:04] It's great that we have such a good turnout tonight.
[5:08] Yeah.
[5:08] Thank you.
[5:09] And when I have Channel Eight come in, we're going to allow them a few minutes to
[5:12] set up so they can film this meeting and film public comment.
[5:15] Okay, great.
[5:15] Very good.
[5:16] So, second the motion.
[5:18] Okay. We'll have a motion, second, any other discussion?
[5:21] No.
[5:21] All right. Hearing none, we'll call for that vote. All those in favor?
[5:24] Aye.
[5:25] Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
[5:26] Thank you.
[5:27] Okay. Item number two, any public comments relative to the agenda?
[5:32] Okay. Very good. Item number three, the approval of the minutes of the Board of
[5:36] Selectmen meeting from September 3rd. Is there a motion?
[5:41] Make a motion to approve the minutes from September 3rd, 2026, the Board of
[5:44] Selectmen meeting.
[5:45] I'll second that motion.
[5:46] Okay. We have a motion, we have a second. Any other discussion?
[5:50] Hearing none, we'll call for that vote. All those in favor?
[5:53] Aye.
[5:53] Thank you very much. Okay. Now, item number four is now item number five.
[5:58] So,
[6:00] was item number five.
[6:02] Right.
[6:02] So we're going to read the consideration.
[6:05] David and Bill, would you like to participate?
[6:07] Sure. Bill, I'll have you start. To consider, so new item number four, to consider
[6:12] and vote upon whether to recommend that the town meeting adopt Article 13,
[6:18] exemptions for veterans with total service-connected disability and surviving
[6:21] spouses of residents killed in action of the taxation ordinance at Chapter 184 of
[6:26] the ordinances of the Town of North Haven.
[6:30] Result, to recommend that the town meeting adopt Article 13, exemptions for
[6:34] veterans with total service-connected disability and surviving spouses of residents
[6:39] killed in action of the taxation ordinance at Chapter 184 of the ordinances of the
[6:44] Town of North Haven.
[6:46] Okay. Is there a second?
[6:49] I'll second.
[6:50] Okay. In the discussion,
[6:53] you see here a copy of the proposed ordinance.
[6:58] Now, for those that don't know, Bill Piper,
[7:01] retired lieutenant colonel, United States Army.
[7:05] He is the municipal liaison between the town and the veterans.
[7:11] So I'm going to turn this over to Bill to go through the ordinance, and we've
[7:15] invited our town assessor here, Lynn here.
[7:17] She's here also to offer some commentary or answer any questions. Bill?
[7:24] This exception actually, these are actually
[7:29] exceptions that we can approve at the municipal level.
[7:33] There's a mandatory exception that already exists under Connecticut statute,
[7:38] where municipalities must provide an exemption to eligible participants who are
[7:43] 100% permanently and totally disabled.
[7:47] But these are two other situations that we locally can approve.
[7:53] The ones that I just mentioned, the general one, is mandatory, and I think we're
[7:59] already, as Lynn's going to mention as our town assessor, is already being
[8:05] applied and given to people,
[8:07] or veterans rather, that are entitled to that
[8:14] property relief. But these are ones that would extend it maybe to a few more people
[8:19] who do deserve it, that may not quite fall under the complete statutory
[8:26] arrangement that for permanently and totally disabled.
[8:29] And I think including the
[8:33] surviving spouses for somebody that we may not even have anybody that regrettably
[8:38] were killed in action, and would be entitled to this if it ever happened in the
[8:44] future. So, I
[8:46] think it's a good thing. I think it recognizes that there are veterans, the state
[8:51] statute does, and our extension may be the state statute into some cases that are
[8:56] technically maybe not covered by the state statute, but where the veterans are
[9:01] permanently and totally disabled, they will have tax relief, and they will not be
[9:05] paying taxes on their primary residence up to, I think, two acres of land.
[9:11] No, not the two acres, just one of them. I'm sorry, just one.
[9:14] So we got the assessor here. Just one acre of land.
[9:17] They don't own- No, just the dwelling. Pardon? Just the dwelling, no acreage.
[9:21] Oh, just the dwelling, I'm sorry. Just the dwelling. Just the dwelling, no acreage.
[9:24] And, if they don't have a dwelling, it would apply to 100% on one vehicle.
[9:29] On one vehicle. Mm-hmm. So maybe
[9:32] after that, I think maybe it would be appropriate for our assessor to come up and
[9:37] maybe provide some further comments.
[9:39] Sure.
[9:39] That maybe actually clarifies what I've said.
[9:42] Lynn, the floor is yours, Lynn.
[9:44] Well, thank you, Bill, for your service. My husband is also a Marine.
[9:51] Well, not retired but ex.
[9:55] So the state rolled this program out for veterans who are 100%
[10:00] P&T. It began in '24.
[10:04] Initially, when they wrote the statute, they had ambiguity about the percentage of
[10:10] disability, whether it was permanent.
[10:14] So in '25, they rewrote the statute, or they actually rewrote it
[10:20] before the 25 grand list was effective, but they made it effective with the 25
[10:25] grand list that it would be somebody who has 100% permanent and
[10:33] total disability.
[10:37] It allows the dwelling of that individual, as Bill pointed out, to be fully
[10:43] exempted or their motor vehicle to be exempted if they don't have any real estate.
[10:49] What happened was is there's a group of individuals who are veterans
[10:55] who have a disability that isn't 100%, but they get
[11:01] paid at the 100% rate because they're unemployable, and it's permanent and total.
[11:06] So those were not included in the statute when they wrote that.
[11:11] So what the state did is they allowed municipalities to adopt this statute to
[11:17] include that population and afford the exemption to them.
[11:24] As of the 25 grand list, we only have 12 TDIU, nine of them have
[11:30] real estate and three motor vehicle.
[11:33] I don't know if there's anything else I can elaborate on.
[11:36] Sure. Thank you so much, Lynn.
[11:37] Oh, you're welcome.
[11:38] So this is an expansion of the state's statute, right?
[11:41] We're kind of filling in the gaps.
[11:43] Right. The state is not mandating us to do this.
[11:46] They're allowing the municipality to decide whether or not that they want to do it
[11:50] because the state does not reimburse for this.
[11:53] And does the state reimburse for the statute that they promulgated?
[11:56] They do not.
[11:57] No. Okay.
[11:59] Have most municipalities taken up the offer to expand the statute itself and
[12:05] fill in the holes here?
[12:09] I don't know the complete statistics on that.
[12:12] I do know that there are quite a few towns and municipalities have not
[12:18] adopted it.
[12:19] Okay.
[12:20] So.
[12:22] And then the second piece is-
[12:23] Trumbull, I know it did.
[12:26] From talking to other municipal veteran drafts, it sounds like a lot of towns, if
[12:29] they've not done it, are considering it.
[12:30] Are considering it.
[12:31] Right. Yes.
[12:32] I'm sure they are.
[12:32] Yeah.
[12:32] I think they gave us that ability because
[12:35] the way the statute was drafted maybe wasn't as encompassing as it was initially
[12:41] intended.
[12:41] Right. And tying it to employability was the way to give the folks who clearly
[12:47] could fall into this the opportunity to take advantage of the exemption. Okay.
[12:51] Right.
[12:51] And I think one of the things that I was mistaken about the land, because we could
[12:55] do that as an exemption on a future basis for up to two acres.
[13:00] Yes.
[13:01] Because I think the way it was drafted originally, again, by the state legislature,
[13:06] talked about dwelling and not the property.
[13:09] Mm-hmm.
[13:11] Okay.
[13:11] Right. That is correct. You can exempt it up to two acres.
[13:17] So again, a lot of this language came after they were pushing to get the
[13:23] exemptions afforded to the veterans as they deserve.
[13:28] But there was a lot of ambiguity because there is a complexity in the way the VA
[13:34] assigns disability ratings. So you can be 100% and not permanent and total,
[13:41] and your percentage of disability at 100% could go down to 50. It could change.
[13:47] So
[13:49] it was my understanding the same could occur even if they assigned less than 100%
[13:54] and it was P&T. So they just had to redefine it and make it less
[14:00] ambiguous.
[14:01] Mm.
[14:02] A lot of it has to do with the VA defining disability in a couple of different
[14:08] ways based on how they can maybe most
[14:14] properly pay benefits for veterans who are really 100% permanently and totally
[14:19] disabled-
[14:20] Right
[14:20] ... in terms of home healthcare and trying to allocate it properly.
[14:24] The other thing that I think is important to know is, and Lynn you can help me with
[14:28] that too, is that it is something, unfortunately, you think if you're 100%
[14:33] permanently and totally disabled, you'd always be that way.
[14:36] Sometimes the VA changes that disability, and they have to apply by January 1st of
[14:41] every year.
[14:44] Yeah.
[14:44] You can comment on it a little bit more.
[14:45] I think you understand that better than I do.
[14:47] So it was my understanding that that can change more variably with
[14:52] 100% and not P&T.
[14:57] There are exceptions where if you are 100% P&T, that permanent and total
[15:03] disabled, that it could change. It's not likely to get
[15:09] that percentage of disability. You'd have to really demonstrate
[15:14] a significant
[15:17] qualification for that. So I am not really that well-versed in terms of
[15:24] what that entails. But I do know that it is possible to go below the
[15:30] 100%, but not likely to.
[15:33] Okay.
[15:33] It is more likely if you were just 100% and not P&T.
[15:36] Right.
[15:36] I'm not really clear as to why they made them require to come in and
[15:42] apply annually, but I guess it's just to make sure that they in fact still
[15:48] qualify more than anything, possibly not even really truly understanding
[15:55] the whole ins and outs of that disability rating.
[15:59] Yeah.
[16:00] Mm-hmm.
[16:01] I think that's very helpful. And then the second prong of this is still in action.
[16:06] Spouses of service members killed in action.
[16:09] Yes.
[16:10] The exemption applies as well.
[16:11] Yes.
[16:11] Is this an expansion or is-
[16:14] This would be an expansion, not mandated. This is just a municipal option.
[16:19] Okay.
[16:19] And it's for anyone. They call them Gold Stars.
[16:22] Yep.
[16:23] But we don't have anyone, luckily-
[16:27] Norhaven-
[16:27] ... in Norhaven as of this point. Yes.
[16:31] That we're aware of that sometimes, unfortunately, not everyone is aware
[16:37] of the program. But I do know that the VA and a lot of the representatives did go
[16:42] out and try to reach out to as many members as they possibly could.
[16:48] But as far as I am aware, we do not have anyone.
[16:53] Right.
[16:53] There's also, and again, it just complicates Lynn's job from an assessor's
[16:58] standpoint, is that if you've been in another town and move into North Haven-
[17:03] Mm-hmm
[17:03] ... and you've already applied by January 1's portability.
[17:06] Okay.
[17:07] Right.
[17:07] Actually, I talked to a veteran in another, not in North Haven, but if he's in
[17:12] South Haven or Plainville, who'd moved, somebody who I knew was a veteran.
[17:16] We talked about that, and I told them.
[17:18] He did have the documentation and moved-
[17:20] Mm-hmm
[17:20] ... and they should accept, the assessor in the other town should accept the
[17:25] documentation that approved in the prior town. So.
[17:30] Yeah. Usually, they have to have their DD 214 filed in the other
[17:36] town, and they have to provide it to us within the assessment year.
[17:42] But yeah, and in any case, to qualify, they have to have their DD 214
[17:48] filed by September 30th, regardless of what town they are in.
[17:54] So.
[17:56] And this is all separate from the standard
[17:59] exemption we have in the town of North Haven for any veteran who served, $3,000
[18:05] that
[18:07] is deducted from their assessed value.
[18:13] Right.
[18:14] Which again, is based on our mill rate, is about maybe a savings of about $90
[18:20] to $100.
[18:21] Yeah.
[18:21] Right.
[18:22] At 31 mills, a $3,000 exemption.
[18:25] But there are additional-
[18:26] Additional ones too. Unlimited ones
[18:28] ... so you have others that have a disability rating, and so they'll get a range of
[18:34] a greater exemption benefit. It's also based on income.
[18:40] So you could qualify if you didn't meet the income threshold.
[18:46] Then there's a local exemption you could get if you met the income threshold and
[18:50] you had a disability rating, or even if you met the income level and didn't have a
[18:57] disability rating. It's a fun chart.
[18:59] If you ever want to pop in, I'll be happy to show you.
[19:03] Actually, it raises an important question that people have asked me before.
[19:06] Do we have a dedicated space on our town website where people can find-
[19:13] It's probably not in the chart, but the information or chart, if there's something
[19:17] that they can-- There's a resource we have so that folks who can qualify for some
[19:21] of these programs, be it at the state or municipal level or a combination thereof,
[19:25] how do we make sure that folks have that information?
[19:27] So we do have some application forms on there and some general
[19:33] information for veterans.
[19:37] One of the goals that I just started in at the end of April, but one of my
[19:43] goals is to improve and enhance and utilize that website as a tool.
[19:49] Great.
[19:50] But it's not to where it needs to be right now.
[19:54] So some of the other information that we have out there right now has been updated,
[19:57] like for personal property that's going on right now.
[20:01] I was waiting for this to get final before I started putting out information, so I
[20:07] knew where we stood in terms of what we can communicate to our veterans, because
[20:12] that will matter. We are intending to send out letters to all the veterans who have
[20:17] a disability rating of 10% or more, and the chance that they may end up
[20:22] qualifying.
[20:24] Just so that we make sure we got that
[20:29] well communicated. They are
[20:34] welcome to call our office. We have information for them available, and we're
[20:40] willing to walk through and hold their hand through the whole process.
[20:44] But I can put something out there for them.
[20:47] I just haven't quite committed to that yet.
[20:50] Part of it was just to make sure, again, with this meeting and decision as to
[20:55] whether the town was going to adopt it. It made more sense to then finalize it.
[20:59] Great.
[20:59] So on the town webpage, I have a veteran site under community that actually has a
[21:04] link to the assessor's office, links to the VA, to the Connecticut Department of
[21:10] Veterans Affairs, to veterans discounts, and all kinds of stuff.
[21:15] So I think, if you go to the website,
[21:20] I can show you where that link is.
[21:22] Yeah.
[21:23] But
[21:24] it is on our main webpage.
[21:28] Yeah.
[21:28] And from time to time, I do make sure that the links still work.
[21:32] Yeah.
[21:32] And there is a link to the assessor's office on that site.
[21:36] That's great. And I also think it would be wonderful if we made the navigation of
[21:40] these pages really simple for folks so they can go on, not just for veterans, but
[21:44] there may be a lot of people out there who qualify for a variety of exemptions of-
[21:49] Of town benefits. Yeah
[21:50] ... services.
[21:50] And town benefits, yes.
[21:50] Yeah, or town benefits, either from the state or the municipal level, who don't
[21:54] know it-
[21:54] Right
[21:54] ... maybe because they're not aware of it.
[21:57] So having a very simple, almost like a flowchart, like, "Hey, this is who I am.
[22:02] Who are you?" And you fill it out, and it tells you, "These are the things you
[22:05] might be able to access. What are your basic background and
[22:10] information?" And just giving people a sense, okay, I can check out these things
[22:15] and go ask these people.
[22:16] Mm-hmm.
[22:17] I think that would be really helpful.
[22:19] Yeah.
[22:19] I love your goal.
[22:21] It's, yes.
[22:22] Yeah. It's a good goal.
[22:23] Yes.
[22:24] It's an important goal.
[22:24] And we're getting there.
[22:25] Yeah.
[22:25] We're getting there, too.
[22:26] Good.
[22:27] It is very helpful. I do have links to the website in the automated email
[22:32] responses. So you do your out-of-office reply, is basically what it is.
[22:38] So instead of getting, "We're out of the office," I'll actually give them an email
[22:42] that has links to our website and all the information that they can get.
[22:46] So it's pretty useful. Hint, hint.
[22:50] Yeah.
[22:50] Lots of information about motor vehicles, personal property-
[22:53] Yeah
[22:54] ... just real estate in general. And of course, we're always available to help
[22:59] answer any questions you have.
[23:00] Great. That's great. Thank you. Yeah.
[23:01] Lynn, I want to thank you, and just so the public knows that we were very fortunate
[23:06] to have Lynn join us about three ago, was it about three months?
[23:09] It's about five now.
[23:10] Five months now.
[23:11] Yeah.
[23:11] Right. So our assessor, Gary Johnson, retired, and what we're finding in
[23:16] government, that it's awfully difficult to find directors of finance, assessors,
[23:20] building officials. Very, very difficult.
[23:25] And we're grateful to have Lynn because of her municipal experience.
[23:28] She came to us from another municipality, and she's well-versed in, as you can see
[23:33] here tonight, in some of the things she spoke about.
[23:36] So we're grateful to have you, Lynn.
[23:38] Well, I'm very grateful to be here, and thank you very much for the opportunity,
[23:42] and I am happy to serve the town of North Haven.
[23:46] Thank you. Thank you.
[23:46] Thank you.
[23:46] It sounds like you had a goal when you started work.
[23:49] You started work in April, it sounds like.
[23:51] Yeah.
[23:51] Yeah. So you set those goals in April.
[23:53] Oh, yeah.
[23:54] I love it.
[23:54] I'm making everybody earn it.
[23:55] I love it. It's great.
[23:58] Thank you.
[23:58] They may not like it, but they're good, and I have a good staff, so.
[24:02] The more information people can have access to, the better.
[24:05] Yes.
[24:05] Yeah.
[24:05] Yes, and that's ultimately our goal. So all right.
[24:10] That's why we redid your office.
[24:11] Yeah.
[24:11] To make it so-
[24:14] And it's very nice. It's very, very comfortable. Thank you.
[24:17] That's great.
[24:17] All right.
[24:18] So before we continue, the goal here tonight is to vote on this
[24:24] resolution and then bring it to a town meeting.
[24:27] Now, I just noticed that it says September.
[24:30] Val, it should be- That is- ... the town meeting. I don't know ...
[24:34] the town meeting is-
[24:35] I don't know.
[24:36] I think it's the-
[24:36] It comes later.
[24:37] It comes later. Okay.
[24:38] It comes later.
[24:39] It's October-
[24:40] So it's October 20th.
[24:42] Very good. Okay. That's very good.
[24:44] Just vote whether or not to recommend it, and then it will come later.
[24:47] Then it comes later. Back later, okay. So very good. So we have a motion for this?
[24:51] Bill, second. Bill, second? Yeah. All right. Motion and a second.
[24:55] Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor?
[24:59] Aye.
[24:59] Thank you.
[25:02] All right. We're about eight minutes away from Channel 8 coming in, but just wanted
[25:08] to see if that's him out there.
[25:12] Maybe we do the bonding real quick. Let's go to the bonding.
[25:14] Yeah, let's do the bonding.
[25:19] Okay. Okay.
[25:21] David, do you want to do an overview, or want me to go through the-
[25:23] Yeah. I'll do an overview. So
[25:26] it's important to note here that what you're going to see is a series of
[25:30] resolutions that we're going to ask at the town meeting to
[25:36] bond for these projects.
[25:39] One of the most important points that I'd like you to remember about this is other
[25:43] than the $7 million worth of road paving,
[25:47] every other resolution on here that you'll see is fully reimbursed with state
[25:53] grants. So the $7 million in road paving will be road
[25:59] paving for next year, starting in April, May, and then up to September.
[26:05] That is not reimbursable. Everything else you see, the dollars you see here, like
[26:10] Sackett Point Road you're going to see, all of that is reimbursable.
[26:14] So the way it works is that
[26:17] consider it like a revolving loan at a bank, okay? We have to do the bonding.
[26:22] I have to go to the rating agencies now for a rating call.
[26:25] I have to go for a rating call in October, and we're going to get re-rated or rated
[26:30] or holding our rating. I have to present the profile.
[26:33] I have to present the corporation of North Haven.
[26:36] And these, as I've said before, they're some of the smartest financial people in
[26:39] the United States. So we have to be on our game,
[26:43] and that is what's going to happen in the rating call.
[26:46] So I'll be dealing with S&P 500, presenting the town of North Haven, all of its
[26:50] intricacies, all of its finances, and the economic development, and anything else
[26:55] that they ask.
[26:57] So from there, we bring it to the town meeting.
[27:01] And then what happens is in the bonding, because our
[27:05] town has been very-- People have been very interested in our town's
[27:11] notes, because when I say notes, the bonding, okay? We have to take loans out.
[27:16] They're bonds. We get a lot of financial people, financial people that come in and
[27:21] bid on the bonds. And when that happens, is we get the lower rate
[27:26] because our town is so attractive to the outside investors that we get
[27:32] five, six, eight, 10, 15 people bidding on our paper, we call it. Okay?
[27:37] And that's what we want to see, because when you only have one or two people, you
[27:41] don't have the ability to get the lowest interest rate.
[27:45] So that's why the strength of this organization from a financial standpoint
[27:51] is appealing to the investors.
[27:54] So that's an overview. We're going to go through the resolutions.
[27:57] David and Bill are going to read the resolutions.
[28:00] But remember, when you see all these numbers, only $7 million is not reimbursable.
[28:06] Everything else is reimbursable. David and Bill?
[28:09] Yeah, that's not any, I think, different than it has been over the years-
[28:13] Yes
[28:13] ... where so much of what we have to bond for initially,
[28:17] eventually
[28:19] does get reimbursed because there is state reimbursement for it.
[28:24] So this is no different. I think it just goes through the same process.
[28:27] The other thing, I think, and I should have brought my- Brett, the numbers
[28:33] with me, but the other thing to note is we have a maximum level that we
[28:39] can bond. We're substantially below that bonding level.
[28:43] Yeah.
[28:43] I think only
[28:45] half or 60% of maybe what we could bond as a...
[28:48] So I think from a debt service standpoint, if
[28:53] you've looked at the town's financials over the years, we've been very good about
[28:59] not extending our bonding to such a level that we have no flexibility to bond in
[29:05] the future.
[29:06] Exactly. One of the things that I'm trying to accomplish before I leave at the end
[29:09] of December is, over the past seven years, we've been
[29:14] calculating what the debt service reduction will be.
[29:18] Right.
[29:19] So you'll see that after I leave. You'll see that over the course of the next few
[29:24] years, all of a sudden there's going to be a sliding debt, which means that that is
[29:29] less money that has to be put in town budgets in future years.
[29:33] However, what generally happens is that if there's other capital projects that are
[29:39] needed, let's say it's a new building, let's say, okay?
[29:42] That the key is to try to not add on debt, but to add the debt
[29:48] as other debt is falling off the books.
[29:52] So that'll be something that you'll see in the next couple of years, that the debt
[29:57] service will be sliding, which is a good thing.
[30:00] It'll offer capacity for the new administration to come forward with
[30:06] other projects that need to be bonded for.
[30:09] And that new administration will then be able to utilize the sliding debt scale
[30:15] and replace debt with things that are needed from capital expenditures in the
[30:19] future.
[30:21] Okay.
[30:22] Just a question on that. Are the projects that are kind of falling away or we're
[30:27] making our payments and paying it down, are those the firehouse and police
[30:32] and high school and middle school? Are those the big capital projects?
[30:35] That's a great question, Dan. We've talked about this before.
[30:38] So a lot of times, ladies and gentlemen, that when you see a new building built
[30:42] like four new firehouses back in 2012, '13, or you see a new police department, or
[30:47] you see a $69-million middle school that's been built, people think it's already
[30:52] paid for. That's when the debt service begins.
[30:55] So to David's question here, we're closing out the debt on the firehouses.
[31:01] We still have the debt on the police department.
[31:04] We probably have another nine years to 10 years on the middle school.
[31:09] So that's the way it works. And even when you pave roads, okay?
[31:13] That's adding debt service that over the course of time, we have to add to our
[31:19] budget on debt service because these projects now that are built, the
[31:25] debt pretty much starts.
[31:29] So always remember that in the future, folks.
[31:31] When you see a building that's built, that doesn't mean it's paid for.
[31:34] It's like taking a mortgage out on a house.
[31:36] You're going to pay it out over 20 years, let's say.
[31:40] And it's no different than in government.
[31:42] So, good question, and I think that's a good discussion to have here.
[31:45] Yeah, absolutely. And opening up capacity for future capital projects.
[31:49] Future capital projects, that's right.
[31:50] That's a great thing for town.
[31:53] All right, so let's get into it. So the first one I'm going to read is the only
[31:57] one, to Michael's point, that is on the town budget. The rest will be reimbursable.
[32:03] This is Sackett Point Road. "Consider an act upon a resolution recommending a
[32:07] $7-million appropriation and bond authorization for reconstruction of Sackett Point
[32:13] Road. The project shall consist of the reconstruction, milling, and paving of the
[32:17] roadway,
[32:19] installation and repair of sidewalks,
[32:22] lighting, signage, traffic controls, drainage, and other related improvements and
[32:26] repairs." That could be the resolution then, Bill?
[32:28] Yeah.
[32:29] "Resolved, that the Board of Selectmen recommends that the Town of North Haven
[32:32] appropriate $7 million for reconstruction of Sackett Point Road.
[32:36] The project shall consist of the reconstruction, milling, and paving of the
[32:39] roadway, installation and repair of sidewalks, lighting, signage, traffic controls,
[32:43] drainage, and other related improvements and repairs.
[32:47] The appropriation may be spent for design, construction, demolition and removal
[32:50] costs, materials, installation, easements, equipment, engineering fees, other
[32:55] consultants' fees, legal fees, net temporary interest and other financing costs,
[32:59] and other expenses related to the project.
[33:01] And that the town shall issue bonds or notes and temporary notes in an amount not
[33:05] to exceed $7 million to finance the appropriation.
[33:09] The total amount of the bonds issued shall be reduced by the amount of grants or
[33:14] other funds received and not separately appropriated for the project."
[33:19] So we'll, I'll make a motion for the motion.
[33:22] I'll second that motion.
[33:23] All right, we have a motion and a second. Any other discussion on this item?
[33:27] So again, just to be clear, we have three more bonding-- Actually one, two, three,
[33:33] four more. This is the only one that is-
[33:36] No. Let me-- So there's two $7 million.
[33:40] What I was saying earlier is the $7 million on road paving is-
[33:44] Oh, road paving.
[33:45] Sackett Point Road. They happen to be the same numbers.
[33:47] Seven million. Okay. Forgive me. I'm sorry. I was mistaken. So that's for 10.
[33:50] So we'll come back to that. So this one is reimbursable.
[33:54] This one's reimbursable.
[33:55] Yeah. Okay, great. Motion and second. Any other discussion?
[33:59] I think it's what, 90% reimbursable?
[34:02] If I remember right
[34:04] from the Board of Finance meeting, I think when you discussed it.
[34:07] Yeah, there are some ancillary fees for the design side, I think, so I'm not sure
[34:13] if it's 90 or whatever it might be.
[34:14] But it's a significant portion.
[34:15] Basically. In other words, let's say it's 5%.
[34:19] You've got to pay five to get 90% of $7 million.
[34:24] But this is primarily reimbursable.
[34:27] Mm-hmm.
[34:28] So.
[34:29] Okay.
[34:30] Okay.
[34:30] And I'll second that resolution.
[34:33] All right. All those in favor?
[34:35] Aye.
[34:35] Aye.
[34:36] Now, we have Charlie here. Preston, how are you?
[34:39] I'm good.
[34:39] So I think procedurally, I'd like to make a motion to maybe pause this, okay?
[34:45] Sure.
[34:45] We'll get into the Amazon presentation.
[34:48] Preston, as we spoke earlier, I've made arrangements here to have public comment
[34:53] after this presentation.
[34:55] Sure.
[34:55] And answering questions for the public.
[34:57] Thank you for making that change.
[34:58] I thought you came for the bonding.
[35:00] That too, yeah.
[35:01] Yeah. That's the most exciting thing we do.
[35:03] Exactly. All right. So, okay. So we'll pause right here now.
[35:08] So here we are, and I direct everyone's attention to the TV camera here, okay?
[35:14] Preston, if you're okay.
[35:16] Yes.
[35:16] Right there. Thank you.
[35:19] We'll do an audio check, Preston. How does that sound?
[35:22] Yeah. Count to three real quick.
[35:23] Okay. One, two, three. We're good? Okay. All right.
[35:30] So the purpose of this presentation is to tell you what's happening here
[35:36] and what
[35:38] we are doing about this, okay? So let's start,
[35:42] if you look ahead here,
[35:47] the Amazon Prime Air drone delivery. I'm going to go to the next slide here.
[35:54] It's important for me to tell you that this North Haven Amazon distribution
[35:59] facility, the one we have here in North Haven, and its local management, is
[36:05] not the driving factor for these drones. They're not the driving factor.
[36:13] It's Amazon corporate
[36:16] on a national basis that's the driving factor in bringing this project forward.
[36:21] And right now, it's about 15 states all over the country.
[36:26] We happen to have the facility in North Haven.
[36:30] And because we have the facility in North Haven, the facility is essentially
[36:36] almost mandated by this project to move forward with this project
[36:42] in the event it passes through the FAA and the Connecticut
[36:48] Department of Environmental and Energy Protection. Is everyone clear on that?
[36:54] I'm going to go step by step on this.
[36:57] Any-
[36:58] Well, why is it important that it's not the local management and it's a national?
[37:03] Because they're coming.
[37:05] Yes. It's important because people think that Amazon locally is driving this, okay?
[37:11] It's Amazon corporate. But people don't understand that there's almost two separate
[37:16] entities here. It's a perspective that I want to share with you before we move
[37:20] forward here.
[37:22] So if you just bear with us here, okay? You can get up after this, okay?
[37:25] Also, to answer that question, it's we as a municipality do not control
[37:31] anything above the ground. The FAA does.
[37:34] Okay. We're going to get to that.
[37:35] The EP does.
[37:36] We'll get to that. All right, let's go to this.
[37:40] So the North Haven Planning and Zoning Commission did not authorize drones being
[37:44] flown in the airspace, because that seems to have been an area of confusion here.
[37:50] So because the North Haven Planning and Zoning, nor does
[37:56] any other planning and zoning, have any authority to authorize
[38:02] drones being done in the airspace.
[38:05] So I feel like a lot of people, they think, why did Planning and Zoning authorize
[38:08] this? They didn't authorize the drones being flown.
[38:16] What happened here was that Amazon applied to the town for a site plan approval
[38:23] for a planned drone facility at its distribution center at 409 Washington
[38:29] Avenue.
[38:30] What this means is it was planned
[38:35] the drone facility would take place only if the FAA and
[38:41] the DEEP organizations authorized the drones being flown.
[38:48] The town's approval, Planning and Zoning,
[38:51] five Planning and Zoning commissioners, Democrats and Republicans,
[38:58] they voted for the site plan approval for the improvements
[39:04] necessary for the drone handling and preparation in the event the drone was
[39:10] authorized by the FAA and the DEEP.
[39:16] In other words, if the drone airspace flying is not
[39:22] authorized by DEEP and the FAA, this
[39:28] facility probably will not be built.
[39:31] So I want to make sure that everyone understands that.
[39:35] So due to the nature of the application that was presented back in May to Planning
[39:39] and Zoning as a site plan application and the nature of the proposed ancillary use
[39:44] itself, the commission was limited in its scope of review.
[39:50] Again, no authority to authorize drones.
[39:56] All aspects of the drone operations and airspace are essentially what I just
[40:00] mentioned. They're within the exclusive jurisdiction of the FAA, and the town has
[40:06] no authority or any aspect of drone flight path elevation, time of
[40:12] day, restrictions, method of delivery, noise, or privacy.
[40:18] We have no jurisdiction over that, no authority.
[40:20] And by the way, so we're not happy with it, but that's the reality.
[40:26] So all over social media,
[40:30] there's been people who have been accepting our suggestion to send
[40:36] your testimony in to the FAA and to DEEP.
[40:41] So
[40:44] the concerns really need to go to both organizations, FAA and DEEP.
[40:50] As part of the FAA approval process, Connecticut DEEP
[40:55] has it been included for a coastal area management review, which is under their
[41:00] jurisdiction. Residents, and I said this before, may also, we encourage it.
[41:06] We encourage that they provide public comment to DEEP during the review process.
[41:12] Now,
[41:14] October 1st was the deadline, which is today, but I know that hundreds and hundreds
[41:18] of people have already submitted testimony, as I have, as our state delegation has,
[41:24] and even talking to our
[41:27] third congressional district, they have. They called me.
[41:31] So all of that has been submitted, and we have copies here for those that want to
[41:36] read it.
[41:40] The FAA, based on some feedback back to the residents in North Haven,
[41:47] some of the residents who
[41:49] actually went on the FAA email,
[41:54] some of them have been responded back to, and the FAA has advised those
[42:00] town residents. Is Alex here tonight?
[42:03] No.
[42:03] Okay. So Alex was one of them, because he sent me a message and I talked to him.
[42:07] We've been talking to people all week on this, in the last two weeks.
[42:12] This is the FAA telling some of our residents.
[42:14] The matters that are specific to the Amazon drone delivery operations,
[42:21] the FAA is advising those residents, if they have any questions, to call
[42:27] Amazon directly at this number and on the website, submit your testimony.
[42:33] I think that even though DEEP and
[42:38] FAA, that sunsets, October 1st is the sunset, that I think that testimony
[42:44] can still be sent to Amazon,
[42:47] and we can supply these websites and phone numbers again.
[42:52] So, the last couple weeks, I've expressed my own concern.
[42:56] And I talked to Amazon corporate, and right from the beginning, and I explained
[43:01] that there should have been public meetings on this in every city and town,
[43:07] specifically in the 7.5-mile zone, because a lot of my colleagues, I'm friendly
[43:12] with all the mayors in the area. A lot of my colleagues also share the same
[43:16] concerns. There have been no public meetings.
[43:21] So that's going to change.
[43:25] So I've asked Amazon, I have asked Amazon, to pause this project until all
[43:31] meetings take place throughout the region where the people can be heard
[43:37] and where the people can ask their own questions and express their individual
[43:42] points of view in these public meetings. So where are we right now?
[43:48] I mentioned that I've written to both FAA and Connecticut DEEP, and what I've said,
[43:52] basically, I'm not going to get behind this project and that public meetings need
[43:55] to be taking place.
[44:00] I'm also working with my colleagues in the south central region, the mayors and
[44:03] first selectmen in the area. And what we're doing is, and I tried to do this back
[44:08] in September, to have a mayors meeting.
[44:10] I had all the mayors in the area on board with this, but it was canceled by Amazon.
[44:15] They
[44:17] had other things
[44:19] relating to this that they felt they needed to present.
[44:23] So
[44:25] we're concerned that
[44:28] the way it's unfolded is not the right way,
[44:34] and we're not happy because it's not the right way.
[44:37] So we've urged Amazon, myself, as I mentioned here, and my colleagues to
[44:43] reschedule the public meetings, which they've agreed to do.
[44:47] We don't have dates on that yet. But
[44:50] we also got them to agree
[44:54] that it'll be the mayors meeting before the public meetings, will be either the
[45:00] third or fourth week of October, this month.
[45:04] Amazon has also informed me that they're also going to be providing virtual
[45:08] meetings on Monday, October 5th, with all the state senators and all the state
[45:12] representatives across the state of Connecticut.
[45:17] Our delegation, our legislation,
[45:21] our state colleagues, they've all submitted their own recommendations, as have
[45:25] other members of the State House and State Senate.
[45:32] So what do we see happening in the future?
[45:36] We don't know what the FAA or DEEP is going to end up saying, but I
[45:42] think that the fact there is some agreement now that the mayors meetings will take
[45:47] place first after the meetings with state senators and state representatives, and
[45:52] there'll be a lot of people on that call to ask their own questions.
[45:57] And then to follow it up with the public meetings, that's going to be able to
[46:02] thoroughly vet this out so the public is satisfied or not satisfied with whatever
[46:07] the answers are. And that's the story right now, ladies and gentlemen.
[46:13] Now I'm going to open up the public comment one by one.
[46:15] Identify yourself, your address, and please stand up.
[46:18] Yes
[46:23] Just, I'm so sorry to interrupt. Just a reminder, we're going to try to limit it to
[46:26] five minutes.
[46:27] Oh, yeah. I don't have long.
[46:30] Sharon Sarasoli, 48 Vista Road, town resident for maybe 28 years.
[46:35] And thank you, Mike, for that presentation. That was helpful.
[46:38] I guess my only thought from the presentation would've been, is rather, I found out
[46:44] about this through an article in "The Register," so I didn't hear anything from
[46:46] town. I didn't hear anything from
[46:49] Planning and Zoning. I just wonder if there's a different way to disseminate
[46:53] information in the future. We don't have a town newspaper anymore.
[46:55] We don't have a great way to disseminate, and I was talking to people in the rec
[46:59] center today who still didn't know this was going on.
[47:01] So my concern is just how are we, and I don't have an answer to that, but how are
[47:05] we going to inform all the residents?
[47:07] Yeah, I think, Sharon, first of all, nice seeing you here tonight.
[47:09] I didn't recognize you with the mask on, by the way.
[47:11] Right.
[47:11] So,
[47:13] I want to let you know that
[47:15] we weren't the ones, not us, all the citizens, we weren't the ones hosting the
[47:20] public meetings.
[47:20] Right.
[47:21] It was Amazon that had agreed to host the meetings.
[47:23] Not the public meeting, on the fact that Planning and Zoning approved the site
[47:29] piece of it back in May.
[47:31] Yes.
[47:31] And this is the first time hearing of it a week and a half ago.
[47:34] Yeah.
[47:34] So what happened there that disconnected town residents didn't know?
[47:37] Yeah, I think here's what I think happened.
[47:38] I wasn't at the Planning and Zoning meeting.
[47:39] Yeah, no.
[47:40] It was May 4th. It was a public meeting. Yeah.
[47:43] But it was a public meeting that was televised on TV. Okay?
[47:46] So we realize sometimes that people aren't watching these TV shows.
[47:50] They're not watching the town meetings, right?
[47:52] But the minutes were posted, so Planning and Zoning and the staff did what they're
[47:57] obligated to do.
[47:59] Right.
[47:59] They're not obligated to hold another public meeting.
[48:01] No, and I don't want to use up my time necessarily all on this.
[48:04] I will just say, I just think there's a way for them to disseminate information.
[48:07] I'm just going to put that nugget there that to just rely on us watching a public
[48:11] meeting virtually to get the information in this day and age is just not a good way
[48:15] to do it-
[48:16] Okay
[48:16] ... in my opinion.
[48:17] Fair.
[48:18] Okay. So, sorry. Thank you, though. I appreciate that.
[48:20] So I'm absolutely, completely opposed to the drones.
[48:23] Other than corporate profit and maybe trying to get people's dopamine hits going, I
[48:27] really don't understand why this is necessary.
[48:31] I was totally in support of the Amazon facility because of the jobs created, and
[48:34] this is doing the opposite of that, right? This is not creating jobs.
[48:37] It's going to be taking away if it's a drone that's manned, say it's a $30,000 or
[48:40] $40,000 drone.
[48:43] So I think it's completely unnecessary.
[48:46] I'm concerned about the potential harm to the animals, pets, environment, water,
[48:51] you name it, just the environment.
[48:53] I did send emails to both
[48:56] entities. I'm concerned about the noise level.
[48:59] I don't know how many people have read "The New York Times" article or seen some of
[49:02] the videos online from Richardson, Texas, and it's pretty astounding to hear their
[49:06] comments.
[49:08] One guy quote said, "I get up in the morning, the drones are there. I go to work.
[49:12] I come home. The drones are there." They interviewed several people who said they
[49:16] can't even enjoy the outdoors anymore because of the constant, constant irritant of
[49:20] the noise. And we have a nice quality of life here.
[49:23] I just don't want to sacrifice it so people can get their item in 30 minutes, if
[49:28] that's accurate, or an hour instead of overnight.
[49:31] When I go online now, I usually order, and I don't order that much from them
[49:34] actually, truly, because I'm not a fan of Bezos.
[49:37] But when I go online and order, it usually is next-day delivery or for an extra $2
[49:41] to $2.99, you can get it first thing in the morning, 4:00 to 8:00 AM.
[49:46] So I just, again, think it's completely unnecessary. Noise level issues.
[49:50] Some of the videos said that the drones have hit property or hit the house.
[49:54] What happens if they damage property? What about the surveillance?
[49:57] I know we're relying on all these corporate entities in the US to police themselves
[50:01] to get rid of the surveillance information. Where really is that going?
[50:06] And that's a total trust issue. I'm supposed to trust this mega corporation to get
[50:11] rid of any personal information flying around my neighborhood, people are outside,
[50:14] kids are outside. That's a total privacy violation.
[50:18] To me, the bottom line is it's going to be decreased housing values.
[50:21] I've noticed, unrelated to this, quite an increase in the noise level just in the
[50:26] Avelo Airlines going overhead. And when Tweed finishes their expansion, just wait.
[50:30] And this to me is just look at your housing, what it's going to be worth if you
[50:34] have these constant drones. Because again, look at the Richardson, Texas, videos.
[50:37] Look at the article by "The Times," I think this past week or so, and it's very
[50:42] clear the quality of life is impacted there,
[50:46] and then the reduced employees, I think.
[50:48] So that's, yeah, as you can tell, I'm 100% completely opposed, and I think what I'm
[50:52] going to write Amazon is if this passes, I know it's going to be hard, but I will
[50:56] just not order from them again. I will boycott them totally because it's not in the
[50:59] best interest of our town. It's just not.
[51:01] So Sharon-
[51:02] And not just our town, but Hampton, North Haven, Longford, and I believe parts of
[51:05] New Haven, anybody in the 7.5 mile radius.
[51:10] So it should be noted also, Sharon, for those that don't know, that we don't know
[51:14] what their end up decision's going to be.
[51:16] Sure.
[51:17] But it's important to know that you have the ability to opt out.
[51:20] So because it's a fee-based-
[51:22] But that's not going to affect it if everybody else in my neighborhood is opting
[51:25] in.
[51:25] I know.
[51:26] I will not opt in, but I'm just concerned with people's impulsivity and wanting to
[51:31] get things so quickly that it's going to ruin it for the rest of us.
[51:34] Right. I guess what I was trying to say is that if you have family and friends, if
[51:38] you don't want it, you might have the ability to have it opted out in other-
[51:42] I can do it, but I think as a community, we need to come together and really stand
[51:44] up.
[51:45] I agree.
[51:46] And that's the only way we're going to make change.
[51:47] I'll email Amazon, but honestly, I don't think that this is, as you said, driven by
[51:52] corporate. To me, it's driven by greed.
[51:54] Right.
[51:54] The bottom line, the dollar, and they're not going to listen to us is my opinion.
[51:57] Okay.
[51:58] Just my opinion.
[51:58] Thanks, Sharon.
[51:59] Thank you.
[52:00] It's very frustrating that it's not something that we control directly
[52:05] locally.
[52:06] Oh, yeah. Totally. I totally get that.
[52:07] I appreciate your comments, and Mike has totally-
[52:09] You'd think for sure that we would control-
[52:12] Yeah
[52:12] ... the space over our heads and-
[52:14] Exactly
[52:15] ... and I would not have known before this that-
[52:17] Kind of science fiction, right?
[52:18] Yeah. That we're dependent on the FAA to say no.
[52:22] Exactly.
[52:24] Or actually do it in a reasonable way where you wouldn't have things like noise
[52:28] problems or potential injury to pets or-
[52:31] Or even-
[52:32] I did read the article you're talking about.
[52:33] Even the 6:00 AM to 10:30, I've been told that they've opted out of that because
[52:37] it's in the air, but that's an absolutely ridiculous timeframe for delivery.
[52:41] But I will say that at whatever the meeting is, too. Thank you very much.
[52:45] Okay.
[52:45] Thank you.
[52:46] Next. Anyone else who would like to speak?
[52:48] Mary White. Yes.
[53:05] Mary White, Summer Lane. Okay, so I would like to start off by giving people, I
[53:10] guess we have until midnight,
[53:13] the correct emails that you want to send comments to in
[53:19] opposition. So for Connecticut DEEP, it's
[53:22] karen.michaels@ct.gov, and it's exactly like it
[53:28] sounds. So
[53:29] K-A-R-E-N.M-I-C-H-A-E-L-S
[53:36] @C-T.gov. And for the FAA, the name of the
[53:42] individual is Christopher Hurst.
[53:44] Hurst is spelled H-U-R-S-T, and it's a long email, so I'll
[53:50] go slow. First I'll say it. So it's
[53:54] 9-FAA-drone-environmental@faa.gov.
[54:02] So we're going to go nine, and then the number nine. A dash.
[54:07] And then FAA is capitalized. And another dash.
[54:11] And then drone, the D is capitalized, R-O-N-E.
[54:15] A dash, and then the word environmental,
[54:18] E-N-V-I-R-O-N-M-E-N-T-A-L
[54:23] @F-A-A.gov. Okay. So
[54:27] for Connecticut DEEP, the proposed operations of the Amazon Prime Air deliveries
[54:33] are not consistent with the Federal Coastal Zone Management Act's enforceable
[54:38] policies. So there was a 2021 nesting season drone
[54:43] harassment incident, and I think that that's enough for Connecticut DEEP to say no
[54:49] to Amazon Prime Air. So what happened was,
[54:54] in the 2021 nesting season, a pair of American oystercatchers and a pair of
[55:00] nesting piping plovers where the birds received the drone as a threat, which caused
[55:05] them to dive bomb the drone because it was such a disturbance, which
[55:10] caused the oystercatcher to sustain a leg injury, and then later
[55:15] on, the little birds did not hatch, so infertility.
[55:22] And then it also caused the abandonment of their nests.
[55:25] So These are a never-ending nuisance for the birds.
[55:33] So we have actually endangered species and threatened birds.
[55:37] So examples are short-eared owl, king rail, saltmarsh sparrow, piping
[55:43] plover, great egret, and the bald eagle.
[55:46] So North Haven provides the low disturbance and quiet coastal habitat.
[55:50] The hundreds and hundreds of flights daily, 6:00 AM to 10:30 PM, the birds will be
[55:56] harassed. They'll become distressed, injured, and like I said, leading to nest
[56:00] abandonment and
[56:03] infertility. And what else? So this will cause destruction of a
[56:08] fragile, natural
[56:11] ecosystem, and will guarantee those threatened and endangered bird species will
[56:16] become extinct.
[56:21] The previous speaker mentioned Richardson, Texas.
[56:24] So Prime Air is operational there.
[56:26] Residents report the drones' loud buzzing noises are louder than a lawnmower and
[56:32] can be heard over the television indoors.
[56:35] Residents report the drone flight patterns are below promised altitude range.
[56:42] Residents also report hundreds and hundreds of drone flights daily, day and
[56:48] night, over their homes.
[56:53] The drones will have cameras. We know they're operating 6:00 AM to 10:30 PM.
[56:59] That leaves 7.5 hours of quiet time.
[57:03] I personally need eight hours of sleep and quiet. That's not enough for me.
[57:08] So we will have no peace, no privacy.
[57:11] Whether you're going for a walk in your neighborhood or you're trying to enjoy your
[57:15] pool in the backyard, there is no privacy.
[57:18] So I definitely am against this, and I encourage everybody, you have until
[57:22] midnight. If you haven't sent an email to Connecticut DEEP, or you haven't sent an
[57:26] email to the FAA, I strongly encourage you to do so. Thank you.
[57:32] Thank you, Mary.
[57:34] Next. Anybody else?
[57:37] Nobody else?
[57:39] You going?
[57:40] No, you're-
[57:41] Oh, boy.
[57:43] Can I say one quick thing before you-
[57:45] Sure
[57:45] ... just really quick? I'm just going to be really quick.
[57:52] Stephanie Magnuson, Seven Manor Drive.
[57:54] So just really quickly, on the note of the planning and zoning, I just did want to
[57:58] make one point with their agenda. If you look at the agenda items, it does say
[58:03] Amazon, but there's no mention of it actually being a drone site building.
[58:10] So there was nothing there to sort of alert the public that this was something that
[58:14] they were approving or denying that day.
[58:16] So that was just something that I noticed when I was looking into it.
[58:20] I know those agendas are-- Because it was actually their lawyers, I believe, that
[58:23] were there and not Amazon, is from what I understand, and you guys can correct me
[58:28] if I'm wrong.
[58:29] You can have a seat.
[58:31] Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead, Steph.
[58:32] No, I'm good. That's it. That's all I want to say, is that the agenda was just a
[58:36] little bit-- There was nothing there that would've alerted us to say they're
[58:40] approving a drone site building.
[58:42] Yeah.
[58:43] So to the public, they wouldn't have known whether to show up to that meeting to
[58:48] make public comment on a thing like that.
[58:50] Okay.
[58:50] That's only thing.
[58:52] Okay. Yeah.
[58:52] Thanks.
[58:53] Can I just say one thing in response?
[58:55] Yeah, sure.
[58:56] Sorry. Normally, don't do this, but
[59:02] Mary White-Zermolen again. I just want to respond. I'm very familiar with zoning.
[59:07] I go to the meetings every month. So it's under site plan, and even if they had
[59:13] said in the description that it was about the drone docking station that they want
[59:18] to build, the public cannot speak.
[59:21] So even if we knew about it, it's a site plan application.
[59:24] There is no public comment. It's not a public hearing.
[59:27] So I just want to tell you
[59:29] that.
[59:30] We might have known about it.
[59:30] Recognize that.
[59:30] Yeah, we might have known about it.
[59:31] Right. But because-
[59:33] But thank you for that, though. I appreciate that.
[59:35] I think Mary's at every plan and zoning.
[59:38] I know. I watch them all on YouTube. I'm sitting at home.
[59:40] I actually think the town should hire Mary to tell everybody what's happening at
[59:44] all the meetings in town.
[59:47] All right. Next. Yes, sir.
[59:49] Yeah.
[1:00:03] Mr. Freda, thank you for taking the time. Mr. Cohen, nice to see you.
[1:00:08] You too.
[1:00:09] Mr. Piper,
[1:00:11] I'm curious about what's going to happen at the end of the year with your
[1:00:14] departure.
[1:00:14] Can you identify yourself, please?
[1:00:15] Sure. My name is Adam Francis. I live at 24 Vista Road, right here in North Haven,
[1:00:20] Connecticut, about 3.2 miles away from the distribution center.
[1:00:26] You've given a good presentation, and I understand that the town does
[1:00:30] not have the capability to do a lot, but I'd still like to read some stuff into the
[1:00:35] record-
[1:00:35] Absolutely
[1:00:36] ... so that you can hear that.
[1:00:37] Yes.
[1:00:37] So that the folks here can hear
[1:00:40] my concerns.
[1:00:44] Yeah.
[1:00:44] So I've been following the proposed Amazon drone operation because I have some very
[1:00:48] basic questions about what happens when we put potentially thousands of commercial
[1:00:53] aircraft into the skies over our community.
[1:00:59] The property may be in North Haven,
[1:01:03] but the operation won't stay there.
[1:01:06] The FAA's documents for Amazon MK30 contemplates up to 1,000 delivery flights a
[1:01:11] day, operating from 6:00 AM to 10:30 PM.
[1:01:16] That's 16 and a half hours a day. That's an average of more than 60 flights an
[1:01:21] hour, essentially one flight every five minutes, for 16 and a half hours a day.
[1:01:27] Potentially 365 delivery operations a year from one facility,
[1:01:33] covering a potential operating area of 174 miles.
[1:01:38] And Amazon won't necessarily be the only company.
[1:01:43] What happens when Walmart,
[1:01:45] Wing,
[1:01:47] Zipline,
[1:01:49] UPS, or any medical delivery company decides to do drone delivery in the area?
[1:01:56] How many commercial drones can occupy the same low-altitude airspace before we have
[1:02:02] reached too much?
[1:02:06] And who decides?
[1:02:09] And it isn't some distant hypothetical either.
[1:02:13] So here's my question:
[1:02:16] How do we meaningfully evaluate the impact on a particular community before we know
[1:02:21] exactly where the drones are going to fly?
[1:02:28] Where exactly are these drones going to fly if the routes are fixed?
[1:02:33] Let's see them. Let's see which neighborhoods are underneath them.
[1:02:38] Let's see which homes are underneath them.
[1:02:39] Let's see what happens around schools, businesses, and parks.
[1:02:44] And yes,
[1:02:46] Sleeping Giant. Not in this town, but five minutes away from my home.
[1:02:53] Who's going to be underneath these flight paths? Who is going to hear them?
[1:02:57] Who is going to have cameras and sensors passing over their property?
[1:03:02] I currently volunteer with the Sleeping Giant Park Association trail crew.
[1:03:07] I'm out there helping maintain trails that generations of volunteers have cared for
[1:03:12] for more than 100 years.
[1:03:17] So I care about what's happening there.
[1:03:19] But it's not just about Sleeping Giant.
[1:03:21] It's about the quality of life of everyone living underneath this proposed flight
[1:03:26] area. It's about noise, it's about privacy, it's about surveillance.
[1:03:30] These drones use cameras and sensors to navigate.
[1:03:37] Amazon says those cameras aren't being watched by live people.
[1:03:43] Okay.
[1:03:45] But what exactly is being collected?
[1:03:48] How long is it retained?
[1:03:51] Who owns it? Who can access it? Can law enforcement obtain it?
[1:03:57] Can it be subpoenaed? Can it be used to improve Amazon's technology or artificial
[1:04:02] intelligence? And what protection does a person underneath that drone have,
[1:04:06] particularly when that person is not an Amazon customer?
[1:04:13] The FAA position is clear. The FAA does not regulate privacy.
[1:04:19] It says state and local privacy laws may apply.
[1:04:25] But Connecticut law also says municipalities generally cannot regulate the use of
[1:04:30] operation of commercial unmanned aircraft, except where otherwise authorized by
[1:04:34] state or federal law.
[1:04:37] So I have a very simple question.
[1:04:41] Who does?
[1:04:43] Who is responsible for the privacy? For the noise?
[1:04:48] Who monitors the operations? Who receives complaints?
[1:04:52] Who has the authority to make Amazon change something?
[1:04:56] And most importantly,
[1:04:59] what protections are in writing?
[1:05:03] Not what Amazon says it will do, not what we're told at a meeting.
[1:05:09] What is legally enforceable?
[1:05:12] That is not an unreasonable question.
[1:05:17] Connecticut is asking some of those same questions right now.
[1:05:21] Governor Lamont called for statewide review of camera and surveillance technology,
[1:05:26] including drones, asking what data is collected, how long it can be stored, who can
[1:05:31] access it, and how it can be shared.
[1:05:35] And that's a larger issue for me. This just isn't about whether Amazon can build a
[1:05:41] facility in North Haven.
[1:05:44] It's about whether we understand what we are actually approving.
[1:05:49] Because once you establish the infrastructure, the technology can scale.
[1:05:55] One company becomes several companies, one facility become multiple facilities,
[1:06:01] and one flight path becomes a network of flight paths over communities.
[1:06:06] I'm not asking North Haven to stop technology.
[1:06:11] I'm asking North Haven to slow this down long enough to answer the questions before
[1:06:16] the skies are filled with it.
[1:06:19] Tell us where the drones will fly.
[1:06:21] Tell us who is responsible. Tell us what the limits are.
[1:06:25] Tell us what data is collected. Tell us who owns it.
[1:06:28] Tell us how long it is retained. Tell us who can access it.
[1:06:34] Tell us what residents can do when something goes wrong.
[1:06:41] Put those protections in writing.
[1:06:45] Because once we have 1,000 flights a day, and potentially multiple companies doing
[1:06:49] the same thing, it becomes much harder to have a meaningful conversation about
[1:06:54] whether we should have started at that scale.
[1:06:59] Before you ask residents to accept the operation, can residents see the
[1:07:04] operation?
[1:07:07] Time.
[1:07:08] Thank you.
[1:07:10] You did a nice job here, Adam. Nice job.
[1:07:16] Thank you.
[1:07:16] Adam, thank you very much, and I would 100% read that exact speech
[1:07:22] at the Amazon meeting that's going to be held.
[1:07:24] Yes, I agree.
[1:07:25] Those are all vital questions.
[1:07:28] And Adam, thank you for the correspondence packet that you sent to Valerie.
[1:07:32] That was very helpful.
[1:07:33] Valerie, who-
[1:07:34] Right
[1:07:35] ... Bill-
[1:07:36] Right
[1:07:36] ... Dave-
[1:07:37] Regarding the-
[1:07:37] ... Laura
[1:07:39] ... regarding the 188 number that you provided.
[1:07:42] That was very important for us to know. Thank you.
[1:07:48] Okay, anything else?
[1:07:51] All right. Yes.
[1:07:53] Yes.
[1:07:54] Yes, Chris. Come on up, Chris. All right, Chris. Good.
[1:08:00] Good evening. Christopher Hoffman, 25 Janet Drive.
[1:08:04] Okay.
[1:08:05] I'm not quite sure what to add here.
[1:08:06] I think people have done a fantastic job, especially Adam.
[1:08:11] Yes.
[1:08:11] Yes, talking about these things.
[1:08:15] Just a couple of other things that I would-- And I agree with everything everyone
[1:08:19] said,
[1:08:21] especially the Pandora's box that has been opened up by this.
[1:08:26] Because we have a UPS facility, a large UPS facility, we have a large FedEx
[1:08:30] facility, we have a Target, I don't see how they're not going to want the same
[1:08:35] thing, and I don't see how that is viable, and we're going to look like wartime
[1:08:41] Ukraine in no time at all. And just one perspective on these things,
[1:08:47] when we talk about the size of them, they're five by five.
[1:08:49] So essentially, what you have is a riding lawnmower in the sky,
[1:08:55] 200 feet above your-- What, 225 to 400 feet?
[1:08:58] Mm-hmm.
[1:08:59] So that's not that far above your roof.
[1:09:02] Between 200 to 400. 200 in roof drop off, 400 on the way back.
[1:09:07] 400 on the way back. So that's still, most houses are what about, two-story house
[1:09:12] is-- It's not that high.
[1:09:15] So
[1:09:17] one thing I wanted to talk about is the PCC.
[1:09:21] And a very good point was made here about the agenda, because I look at the agenda.
[1:09:26] I spent my career as a reporter. I've looked at more agendas than I even want to
[1:09:29] talk about and think about. And that agenda was not clear.
[1:09:33] No one would've ever looked at that agenda and said, "Oh, they're talking about a
[1:09:38] drone facility." So
[1:09:41] I don't know how that happened, but that should've been clearer.
[1:09:46] I would also point out that the Amazon representative, I watched the tape,
[1:09:51] misstated
[1:09:53] the hours. He said an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset.
[1:09:59] That's what he told them. That's not what we're being told now.
[1:10:05] I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I would question, does that mean that perhaps the
[1:10:09] approval could be set aside? Because it was based on incorrect
[1:10:13] information.
[1:10:18] I also want to point out, and I know you guys have no power over what they do.
[1:10:22] I understand that they're an independent entity, and you can't tell them what to
[1:10:25] do.
[1:10:26] Having said that,
[1:10:29] if you look online, you can see, particularly in Westborough, Massachusetts, the
[1:10:33] planning commission slowed it down.
[1:10:36] The planning commission immediately said, "Wait a minute. This is a very big deal.
[1:10:41] We're not going to do this right away. We're going to take our time.
[1:10:45] We're going to get more information.
[1:10:46] We want you to come back with more."
[1:10:49] I really don't understand why the PCC didn't do that.
[1:10:54] This is a hugely consequential decision.
[1:11:00] I understand that
[1:11:02] the FAA ultimately has the jurisdiction over this, and I understand that this is
[1:11:06] not an easy thing to push back against.
[1:11:09] But I believe very strongly that if everybody got on the same page,
[1:11:16] that we would have a real chance of stopping this.
[1:11:20] Mm-hmm.
[1:11:21] And I want to say, by the way, Mike, thank you very much here.
[1:11:24] I think you're definitely-- I think these are great steps that you're talking about
[1:11:28] here.
[1:11:30] But if all the towns could get together, and if you could bring in the delegation.
[1:11:36] You could bring in the federal elected official, the two senators, and the
[1:11:39] congresswoman, and perhaps the governor, and perhaps AG Tong,
[1:11:46] and everybody came out and said, "No, we don't want this." Or got
[1:11:51] creative with some law that was passed in the upcoming session that somehow, I
[1:11:56] think these ideas about privacy are also very, very relevant,
[1:12:00] that there would be a chance to stop this.
[1:12:03] I think you're right, Chris.
[1:12:04] Okay.
[1:12:04] Because the way the momentum's going right now, putting aside the P&Z issue, this
[1:12:08] board doesn't put the agendas together. We have our own agendas.
[1:12:11] But what I'm seeing here is, because I mentioned earlier about all the other
[1:12:14] mayors, everybody's on board with this right now.
[1:12:17] These are 15 mayors and first selectmen who I work very closely with.
[1:12:22] The fact that the state is going to be involved with this Teams meeting or Zoom
[1:12:27] meeting, there's going to be a lot of questions asked.
[1:12:31] The fact that Rosa DeLaura called me up and said, "Mike, I want to support you on
[1:12:34] this." And you see, she sent me a letter on this.
[1:12:37] That's great news.
[1:12:39] So we
[1:12:42] are doing everything we can here, and I'm kind of leading the charge on this.
[1:12:46] And I'll tell you what, because the facility is in North Haven, so a lot of the
[1:12:50] mayors say to me, "Mike, what's your position on this?" Right?
[1:12:53] So there are a lot of questions. My colleagues in East Haven, New Haven, Tweed
[1:12:58] Airport, drones dropping in flight zones with the airplanes coming in.
[1:13:03] The momentum now is shifting the other way.
[1:13:07] But what we don't know is that--
[1:13:12] It was almost like what Adam sent to us, okay, this information.
[1:13:17] It was almost like the FAA basically flipped it back to the local municipalities.
[1:13:22] Mm-hmm.
[1:13:23] When I read that, Valerie read it, I read it.
[1:13:26] It was a, I hate to say it, folks, it was like a cop-out.
[1:13:29] Mm-hmm.
[1:13:30] Instead of accepting responsibility-
[1:13:31] Absolutely.
[1:13:32] Yes.
[1:13:32] What did they say?
[1:13:33] Well, they basically said, "Well, we don't have jurisdictions over having
[1:13:37] meetings," right? Instead of saying, "We have the jurisdiction over the airspace,
[1:13:41] and we hope that there are meetings that are going to take place at the municipal
[1:13:46] level." I look at that as a cop-out, Adam.
[1:13:49] It was.
[1:13:50] Total cop-out.
[1:13:51] Mm-hmm.
[1:13:52] So I think though, Chris, coming back to the issue here,
[1:13:56] the momentum's going the other way now
[1:13:58] Yeah.
[1:13:59] We don't know, though, what the outcome's going to be. We don't know.
[1:14:01] It may also be that the technology is ahead of the federal law.
[1:14:06] And I think maybe, again, this is not unique to us, obviously.
[1:14:11] So I think maybe something, again, that's where it's good that you've gotten our
[1:14:16] congressional elected officials-
[1:14:18] Yes
[1:14:18] ... involved, because it really affects everybody.
[1:14:21] And maybe, again, the reason the FAA is copping out is because the law doesn't
[1:14:27] provide guidance because it's not anticipated yet.
[1:14:30] And all the things that have been brought up tonight, and everybody's concerns,
[1:14:34] really, the law, I don't think properly-- The FAA doesn't really think about or has
[1:14:40] the authority to even maybe address, because the technology is moving in a way that
[1:14:46] the Congress at the national level hasn't done anything with yet.
[1:14:50] Yeah.
[1:14:51] That's true with data centers as well.
[1:14:54] Yeah.
[1:14:55] Yeah. I think this could end up being as big or bigger than data centers.
[1:14:58] I think it could be-
[1:14:59] Yeah
[1:15:00] ... equally problematic, similar issues. So, okay.
[1:15:03] But again, thank you, and
[1:15:06] anything that, I think I'm speaking for everyone here, anything we can do to help,
[1:15:10] let us know.
[1:15:11] Keep speaking.
[1:15:13] Keep speaking.
[1:15:14] Okay.
[1:15:14] Thanks for the-- We exchanged emails together, so thank you for that.
[1:15:17] Yeah.
[1:15:17] Okay. But I hope that everyone sees that there are efforts being made
[1:15:24] to change the momentum on this.
[1:15:26] Yeah.
[1:15:27] So.
[1:15:27] Excellent. Thank you very much.
[1:15:29] Okay.
[1:15:29] Yeah.
[1:15:29] Good seeing you. Thank you.
[1:15:30] Chris, thank you very much. Some of the things that are interesting to me-- I'm
[1:15:34] sorry. Does anyone else want to speak?
[1:15:37] I just have one more thing.
[1:15:38] Of course.
[1:15:38] Sorry.
[1:15:53] Mary White, Stillwater Lane.
[1:15:56] I wanted to mention the
[1:16:00] part about,
[1:16:02] I'm just going to say drone wars. We're familiar with
[1:16:06] the war in Ukraine, the non-war
[1:16:12] in Iran. And so I don't know how many of you heard about it, but
[1:16:18] earlier in the non-war, Iran war, a girl school was hit,
[1:16:23] an all-girl school, was hit with more than 165 killed.
[1:16:28] The facility or the school was
[1:16:35] a military compound, from what I understand.
[1:16:38] They moved out, and the girls' school moved in.
[1:16:41] And from what I've read, it was a drone that calculated
[1:16:47] that this was a site for attack, and that's what happened.
[1:16:52] So why am I bringing that up? Because you hear about hacking all the time,
[1:16:58] different federal agencies and local agencies, there's just hacking occurring all
[1:17:03] over the place. So my concern is about, is there a
[1:17:08] possibility that America's enemies, terrorists, that they could create,
[1:17:14] copy an Amazon 80-pound drone in size and color,
[1:17:21] and then load it up with explosives and then,
[1:17:25] because they can operate it from seven miles from where its destination or
[1:17:30] whatever, and then fly this thing over a school, fly this over the town green.
[1:17:35] And so I think that there's a safety issue that I'm not hearing anybody talk
[1:17:41] about. And I think if a drone in the wartime can
[1:17:47] bomb a girls' school, how did we not know that there were red-- Oh, I'm sorry.
[1:17:54] Red, what do you call those things? The highlight, when they show the body heat.
[1:17:59] How did we not know that there
[1:18:02] were little ones, that there were girls there?
[1:18:05] So I'm just concerned that this is not even being spoken about.
[1:18:09] And I think that there's a possibility of either hacking or duplication and that
[1:18:13] we're really--
[1:18:16] It's just something we should think about, and I wanted to bring that forth.
[1:18:19] Thank you.
[1:18:19] Thank you, Mary.
[1:18:21] All right, seeing no other comment, I'd like to offer, do we have our town attorney
[1:18:25] here who's been waiting-
[1:18:26] Yes
[1:18:26] ... because we have the next issue with the town petition.
[1:18:28] Yeah, of course.
[1:18:28] So, we good, Preston? Yeah. I have a question. Yeah.
[1:18:32] Is it a Zoom meeting with the FAA when this all comes to a head?
[1:18:36] Is there a date for that meeting? Well, the meeting on October 5th, Preston, I'll
[1:18:41] text you on this, okay? Sure. Whether it's going to be Teams or Zoom, whatever it
[1:18:44] may be, okay? Awesome. I'll get back to you on this, okay? Absolutely. Thank you.
[1:18:48] Thank you.
[1:18:48] Thank you very much.
[1:18:49] Okay.
[1:18:49] What is the status of the pause that you asked for, Brandon?
[1:18:53] Until all of the meetings take place, Adam, with the ma-
[1:18:56] No, what is the status of what Amazon said?
[1:19:00] It's a good question. It's kind of ambiguous right now.
[1:19:03] That they-
[1:19:03] Because you have asked, but they have not responded, correct?
[1:19:05] They have not responded in terms of time frames when the public meetings will take
[1:19:10] place. They did say, in general, there will be public meetings to take place.
[1:19:15] They gave me the date of October 5th with the state senators and state reps.
[1:19:20] We've got the meeting with the mayors on, I think it's October 22nd or 24th, that
[1:19:24] last week in October, I think it is.
[1:19:27] So my interpretation, although they didn't say it directly, is that they're going
[1:19:31] to start the meetings after the meetings with the state and the meetings with the
[1:19:35] mayors.
[1:19:36] But they haven't paused anything. They are continuing on with their program.
[1:19:39] I think-
[1:19:40] Like the zoning meeting, they're like, "This is just the first step.
[1:19:43] Now we have other steps." So I take that to be you've asked for a pause-
[1:19:46] Yes
[1:19:47] ... they're not pausing. They're just simply giving us a crumb of something they
[1:19:50] should have given us five months ago.
[1:19:52] Right. They give-
[1:19:52] Essentially saying, "We are going to proceed."
[1:19:55] It's possibly the interpretation. You might be right about this, yes.
[1:19:58] I wonder about the site plan that was approved by planning and zoning, and
[1:20:05] how far along the construction is-
[1:20:08] Oh, no
[1:20:08] ... at the Amazon facility.
[1:20:09] There's no construction-
[1:20:10] It doesn't have one yet
[1:20:12] ... there's no planned construction, from what I'm told, until there's a decision
[1:20:17] made on the drones. So until the decision from-
[1:20:22] The FAA
[1:20:22] ... from the FAA, which I believe the FAA has given them approval to fly.
[1:20:26] Is that correct?
[1:20:27] No, I've never heard that, no.
[1:20:29] There's been no approval to fly?
[1:20:31] No, that's the whole purpose of the whole thing.
[1:20:33] Well, the thing ends October 1st-
[1:20:36] Right
[1:20:36] ... was for public comment.
[1:20:37] I thought the approval was subject to DEEP or the local regulator, the state level
[1:20:42] regulator, approving the flight paths with respect to the coverage of DEEP.
[1:20:49] I think it's an overall approval for the thing to happen here.
[1:20:51] I don't know if DEEP has authority beyond
[1:20:55] certain areas of the Quinnipiac and the marsh areas.
[1:20:58] Okay.
[1:20:59] That's what's not clear to me-
[1:21:01] Okay
[1:21:01] ... where the authority rests, who has authority, how far DEEP can go to slow this
[1:21:06] down.
[1:21:06] Right.
[1:21:07] And then if it does slow it down, does that mean Amazon says, "Fine, we're going to
[1:21:11] carve out these particular areas and fly in these areas"?
[1:21:14] Yeah.
[1:21:14] I think the FAA has given,
[1:21:18] my understanding is, it's provisional authority subject to DEEP confirming that it
[1:21:22] complies with state environmental laws.
[1:21:25] If that's true, that's not good news.
[1:21:27] I'm not positive about that, and it's unclear to me.
[1:21:30] Right.
[1:21:32] So to the point that's been made about slowing this down,
[1:21:37] and I know we want to get to Jeff, too, but to the point that was made about
[1:21:40] slowing this down, and again, it's not entirely clear to me where this sits from a
[1:21:44] legal perspective, like where the FAA comes in, where DEEP comes in.
[1:21:47] But the letters that I've read
[1:21:50] are specifically addressing DEEP, and DEEP's coverage of this
[1:21:56] issue, and where DEEP sits in terms of its jurisdiction.
[1:22:01] And that's a pathway to slowing this down, that DEEP can, as a state-level
[1:22:07] regulator, slow this down because they can say, "Look, you're not complying with a
[1:22:12] variety of state environmental codes and regulations." And then Amazon would have
[1:22:17] to respond to that. The other thing I think might be interesting is where these
[1:22:21] site plans sit and how far along that construction is, because maybe they've
[1:22:24] started to do some stuff on site.
[1:22:26] Well, we'll check that because that bears watching. I would agree with that.
[1:22:30] Yeah.
[1:22:31] We'll let everybody know on that, okay?
[1:22:32] If there's any construction on the actual site.
[1:22:36] But-
[1:22:37] Because I think it was contingent on overall approval.
[1:22:41] Yeah, I don't know how much more the FAA is going to be involved.
[1:22:45] That is my question. I think they've now kind of handed over
[1:22:50] to the
[1:22:52] state level environmental authority, which in our case is DEEP, and said, "Hey,
[1:22:55] does this comply with what you need it to comply with?" And then once that is
[1:22:59] approved
[1:23:01] These folks can build their site and start flying, is how I understand it.
[1:23:05] So the way to push this back and to slow it down is to use our
[1:23:11] friends at DEEP, is to use our local representatives, including Congressman
[1:23:16] DeLauro, Congresswoman DeLauro, and also any other...
[1:23:20] What's amazing to me that you've mentioned multiple times is the bipartisan
[1:23:24] opposition to this.
[1:23:25] Yes.
[1:23:26] It's fascinating to me. How many times of recent note have we seen such bipartisan,
[1:23:30] passionate opposition to something-
[1:23:32] Right
[1:23:32] ... like this?
[1:23:33] Right.
[1:23:33] And so that to me tells us really everything we need to know, that
[1:23:38] there's going to be a real push from every level,
[1:23:43] every state apparatus, and also every local person, every local rep, and the people
[1:23:48] in these towns to push back against this.
[1:23:50] And I think that's a really good thing, and that's the way we need to approach it.
[1:23:54] And I think, again, my point earlier was, I think maybe there's a lack of federal
[1:24:03] legislation that needs to provide maybe more guidelines than exist.
[1:24:08] Because I actually know drone operators, and they out west do things like
[1:24:14] lay down insecticides and fertilizer. They track power lines.
[1:24:19] They do all kinds of agricultural tasks now, that before, you'd have people on the
[1:24:24] ground doing.
[1:24:25] Yeah.
[1:24:26] So I think other parts of the country are already seeing it in terms of they just
[1:24:30] happen to be maybe less populated than we are.
[1:24:34] Yeah. The Richardson case is instructive for us as a community because they clearly
[1:24:39] have authority to fly there, because they're flying. Right? This is happening.
[1:24:44] So the FAA clearly has already given them authority to fly in that community.
[1:24:49] And whatever local and state-level ordinances in Texas they've had to comply with,
[1:24:53] they have, and so they're currently operating.
[1:24:56] And so I think that's what is probably happening here, right?
[1:25:02] There's a sequence of events that needs to happen.
[1:25:05] The first thing at the municipal level was the approval of the site plan for
[1:25:10] construction, which as you discussed, was a very limited purview and a very limited
[1:25:14] review. And then the next thing that needs to happen is DEEP needs to say whether
[1:25:19] or not, as we've been discussing, where they are out of
[1:25:24] step with local and state-level environmental controls and laws.
[1:25:30] So I think that's where this sits.
[1:25:33] And so using DEEP as a way to really slow the train here, I think is a good path.
[1:25:38] Well, all of our state legislators, Republican and Democrat, have sent letters to
[1:25:41] DEEP. So
[1:25:44] our congresswoman has done so. And what this might explain, an
[1:25:50] article I just read, that there's 15 states in litigation with the FAA.
[1:25:55] I just read this earlier.
[1:25:57] Yeah, because-
[1:25:58] That's been going on for a couple of months.
[1:25:59] Couple of months. Yeah.
[1:26:00] Yeah. Because I think part of this is if we as a municipality
[1:26:06] don't approve the site plan, Amazon will respond and say, "Well, why?
[1:26:10] What's wrong with-- You have no legal reason to not approve our site plan."
[1:26:14] Right.
[1:26:15] And so that would create potentially friction with Amazon, and they may sue us, and
[1:26:20] we may have to respond to that. Now, whether or not that actually happens, who
[1:26:23] knows? But I think that threat is out there, that the limited purview of the
[1:26:28] Planning and Zoning Commission is such that they had no rational or logical or
[1:26:33] reasonable reason to say no to the site plan.
[1:26:37] And so
[1:26:39] now that Amazon has that approval, they can start building subject to the approval
[1:26:45] of the state-level authority. I think that's where this sits.
[1:26:48] Could be.
[1:26:49] But the bipartisan opposition I think it's
[1:26:54] great, and I think it really is one of our best halfways to slowing this down.
[1:27:01] Can I just-
[1:27:01] I know, but if I--
[1:27:06] Oh, sorry. I feel like we're kind of speculating where things are at with the FAA.
[1:27:09] Can we find that out?
[1:27:09] Yeah, absolutely.
[1:27:10] Instead of like, is there a way that you guys can find that out and report back?
[1:27:13] Yeah, we can try to figure that out.
[1:27:15] Because otherwise, we're just kind of bouncing it around what we think it is-
[1:27:18] Yeah
[1:27:18] ... as opposed to what it is.
[1:27:19] I don't think we can. I don't think they're going to respond to us.
[1:27:21] Oh, okay.
[1:27:22] That email that Adam shared with us, but I think we can engage our federal
[1:27:26] delegation to find out.
[1:27:27] I think that's great. Yeah. Good idea.
[1:27:29] Yeah. I'll work on that.
[1:27:30] Rose and just-- Yeah, exactly. Thanks.
[1:27:32] Thanks.
[1:27:34] Yes, Chris.
[1:27:34] I'll make it quick. I know you guys want to move on to other things.
[1:27:38] It just occurred to me, just talking about keeping people informed.
[1:27:43] I don't know if you have someone who writes press releases for you or if you write
[1:27:46] your own press releases, but maybe a press release every time, for example, when
[1:27:51] you're going to have this meeting with Amazon. Here's what happened.
[1:27:55] You could put it on the website. You could share it with the different
[1:28:00] groups on Facebook, with like Know North Haven.
[1:28:04] I know there's two that are called North Haven Community.
[1:28:06] Yeah.
[1:28:06] There's two different ones, and just make an arrangement with whoever is operating
[1:28:10] those that you can send them this press release. You could send it to Channel 8.
[1:28:15] So an idea just as far as keeping everyone informed as to what's going on and
[1:28:19] particularly when these public forums are going to happen and so on. An idea, so.
[1:28:24] Yeah, absolutely.
[1:28:26] All right. So, thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
[1:28:29] Thank you, Channel 8, Preston, for being here.
[1:28:32] The idea here was with Preston and I that this gets pulsed out all over the Greater
[1:28:37] New Haven County area. So thank you.
[1:28:40] Yeah. Thank you.
[1:28:41] Thanks.
[1:28:43] We'll see you next time, Preston, okay?
[1:28:45] Yeah.
[1:28:45] We'll talk to you again.
[1:28:46] Is tonight or tomorrow morning?
[1:28:48] It's tonight at 11:00.
[1:28:49] Thank you.
[1:28:49] We have it on our website.
[1:28:50] Thank you, North Haven Public TV, too, because they're still filming as well.
[1:28:54] Yeah. Perfect.
[1:28:55] So we got double filming with-- Thank you for coming.
[1:28:58] Thanks. Good seeing you, Preston. Talk to you soon. All right.
[1:29:02] So I think we can-
[1:29:03] Absolutely.
[1:29:04] Yes.
[1:29:04] So sorry.
[1:29:06] He's been very, very patient.
[1:29:08] Yes. Which number is this?
[1:29:12] This is number six, right?
[1:29:13] Well-
[1:29:13] There's no Yankee game on tonight
[1:29:15] ... I think it's going to be seven.
[1:29:17] Seven.
[1:29:18] Oh. Was former six and now?
[1:29:20] The former six, yeah.
[1:29:21] Former six. Okay.
[1:29:23] That's where we are, yes.
[1:29:24] The real problem is-
[1:29:24] Okay.
[1:29:25] Former six.
[1:29:27] So Michael, I'm happy to read.
[1:29:29] Please read.
[1:29:29] Okay. So this is the former number six on the agenda.
[1:29:33] Consider and act upon a petition filed with the town clerk on September 14th, 2026,
[1:29:37] requesting the Board of Selectmen warn and convene a special town meeting pursuant
[1:29:42] to Connecticut General Statutes 7-1.
[1:29:48] I'd like to invite our town attorney, Jeff D'Onofrio.
[1:29:51] Jeffrey, sorry to keep you waiting here, but thank you.
[1:29:54] Hi, folks.
[1:29:55] Council.
[1:29:56] Hi, how are you?
[1:29:58] So I was asked to come tonight to provide an opinion on a
[1:30:04] petition that was filed with the town on September 14th that requests
[1:30:10] that the board, under Connecticut General Statute 7-1 and under the town
[1:30:15] charter, warn a special town meeting with respect to the three questions that are
[1:30:21] presented in the petition.
[1:30:24] We don't get a lot of petitions for special town meetings in North Haven.
[1:30:30] I think this is probably the third in the last 20 years that we've had.
[1:30:36] So just as a refresher, under the Home Rule Act in Connecticut,
[1:30:41] municipalities have the power to adopt a charter to serve as the
[1:30:47] organic law of the municipality. North Haven has a charter.
[1:30:52] The extent of the town meeting's involvement and authority is set forth
[1:30:58] in Section 901 of the charter. So whenever there's a petition
[1:31:04] submitted asking the board to warn a special meeting of the town
[1:31:10] meeting, we have to look at whether those questions are proper. Okay?
[1:31:14] We have to determine if the proposed questions are within the purview of the town
[1:31:19] meeting, because a special town meeting, any town meeting, pursuant to
[1:31:25] Connecticut General Statute 7-1, which is cited in the petition, can only be held
[1:31:30] for the transaction of proper business before that meeting.
[1:31:36] So the petition at issue has three proposed questions.
[1:31:41] I'm going to take them in inverse order because when I looked at it, they kind of
[1:31:48] required that sort of analysis. Okay?
[1:31:52] So item three asks that you warn a town meeting to
[1:31:57] appropriate $1,251,797.49 by municipal bond
[1:32:03] for the purchase of an item.
[1:32:06] The Board of Finance under Section 709 would have to recommend any
[1:32:12] borrowing or any bond issuance. So item three is not a proper purpose for a town
[1:32:17] meeting. There's been no Board of Finance recommendation for an appropriation or
[1:32:23] for issuance of bonds, because town meeting does not have authority to do that.
[1:32:27] Okay?
[1:32:28] Item number two seeks to direct the Board of Selectmen to deliver a full public
[1:32:34] accounting and written report to the town within 30 days, detailing the
[1:32:40] execution, terms, cancellation, and financial liabilities of the fire engine
[1:32:45] contract signed without voter authorization.
[1:32:49] The town meeting does not have authority under the charter over the Board of
[1:32:53] Selectmen. Okay? It's a separation of powers issue. Okay?
[1:32:57] The town meeting has certain authority under the charter, and the First Selectman
[1:33:03] under the charter is responsible for all purchasing done in the name of the town,
[1:33:08] and the First Selectman is responsible for making periodic reports to the Board of
[1:33:12] Selectmen and the Board of Finance under charter Section 502.
[1:33:17] The town meeting has no supervisory authority over the Board of Selectmen and has
[1:33:21] no authority to compel the Board of Selectmen to perform
[1:33:25] whatever is being requested here, a full public accounting.
[1:33:29] I don't know if that means
[1:33:31] from the outside auditors, from an investigation, but whatever it is, the town
[1:33:37] meeting doesn't have jurisdiction to direct the Board of Selectmen to do that.
[1:33:41] Item number one asks for a town meeting to adopt a resolution
[1:33:47] prohibiting the expenditure or transfer of any municipal funds, including the sum
[1:33:53] of $31,294.94, for penalties, fees, or
[1:33:58] damages associated with the canceled fire engine contract, unless and until such
[1:34:04] expenditure is explicitly approved by a vote of the town meeting.
[1:34:09] So item number one essentially seeks to prevent a contract from being canceled.
[1:34:15] The town meeting does not have authority under the charter to direct the town to
[1:34:19] enter into contracts. That authority is granted to the First Selectman.
[1:34:23] My understanding is that the $31,294.94
[1:34:29] used to cancel that contract was appropriated from the
[1:34:35] contingency line in the current fiscal year budget by the Board of Finance, which
[1:34:39] is their purview. So there's no appropriation needed because the contingency line
[1:34:44] is already appropriated in part of the budget, so transferring money out of the
[1:34:48] contingency line does not require a town meeting approval.
[1:34:54] So my opinion is that none of these questions are proper questions for the town
[1:34:59] meeting. The town meeting doesn't have jurisdiction over these items.
[1:35:04] Thank you, Jeff.
[1:35:06] Jeff, thank you so much. Sorry that it was such a long time before you got a chance
[1:35:10] to speak.
[1:35:10] No problem.
[1:35:11] Can you discuss what would be a proper purpose under general statutes here in
[1:35:17] Connecticut and under our charter?
[1:35:19] Well, if you look at Section
[1:35:26] 901 of the charter,
[1:35:27] "The town
[1:35:33] meeting shall have the power to enact ordinances not inconsistent with this
[1:35:37] charter, or the Connecticut General Statutes shall have power to amend or repeal
[1:35:40] such ordinances. The town meeting has authority to establish offices, boards,
[1:35:45] commissions, set their powers, duties, numbers, terms of qualification, abolish,
[1:35:49] consolidate, alter the powers, duties, numbers, terms of any board, commission, or
[1:35:54] agency, except those specified elsewhere in the charter.
[1:35:58] The town meeting also, except as otherwise provided in this charter, the
[1:36:01] legislative power of the town shall be vested in the town meeting." So the town
[1:36:04] meeting is the legislative body of the town.
[1:36:07] "It shall exercise and perform all the rights, powers, duties, and obligations of
[1:36:10] the town, except as the same may be assigned by this charter to some other office,
[1:36:16] board, commission, or agency." Okay?
[1:36:19] So, the law in Connecticut interpreting the jurisdiction of town meetings has
[1:36:25] always been in towns that have a charter, you look to the charter to see what
[1:36:30] power, what authority has been given to the town meeting, and if
[1:36:36] a specific
[1:36:40] role or a specific duty or responsibility or power is given to another
[1:36:46] board or town official, then that's who has that role.
[1:36:53] Obviously, the town meeting has a role in adopting a budget.
[1:36:58] That's part and parcel of
[1:37:02] the function of the legislative body in any town.
[1:37:07] And in North Haven, it happens to be the town meeting.
[1:37:12] There's also case law that
[1:37:15] stands for the proposition that a charter's silence as to authority for a town
[1:37:21] meeting to specifically act as to a matter is evidence of the town's intent not to
[1:37:26] imbue the town meeting with such authority.
[1:37:30] So in this case,
[1:37:33] number three, item three, there can't be any debate about.
[1:37:38] It would be completely illegal, and you would never get an opinion from Bond
[1:37:42] Counsel saying otherwise, to go and borrow money without the Board of Finance
[1:37:47] recommending it. It's not possible.
[1:37:50] You would never even be able to issue
[1:37:53] a public offering statement and go to the bond market with it because you wouldn't
[1:37:57] get an opinion from me, and you wouldn't get an opinion from Bond Counsel, and you
[1:38:00] wouldn't even have a resolution from the Board of Finance, okay?
[1:38:04] So that one, don't even waste a second thinking about it.
[1:38:07] Mm-hmm.
[1:38:09] The first one,
[1:38:12] about prohibiting the expenditure of funds until there's an
[1:38:18] appropriation, there is an appropriation.
[1:38:20] Mm-hmm.
[1:38:22] It's the contingency line in the existing fiscal year budget.
[1:38:29] And, if somebody thinks it's not an appropriate use of the contingency, then they
[1:38:34] deal with that at the Board of Finance.
[1:38:35] The town meeting doesn't have authority over that.
[1:38:38] So what's an example, a kind of simple example of something that--
[1:38:43] Just, I think, just to take a step back, I do not know if everyone is aware of the
[1:38:47] fact that there is a petition that was signed by about 20 or so folks, maybe 20
[1:38:53] to 30 people. And Jeff just read through the three items that the petition was
[1:38:58] seeking.
[1:39:00] And we as a board asked Jeff to give an opinion and render an opinion as to why,
[1:39:05] whether or not this was a valid petition.
[1:39:08] And Jeff is now explaining why, in his estimation, from a legal perspective, it
[1:39:14] is not a valid petition, and why.
[1:39:18] It's not that it's not a valid petition, it's that the purposes-
[1:39:21] The petition itself is valid, yes
[1:39:21] ... for which the town meeting is being asked to convene are not within the purview
[1:39:26] of the town meeting.
[1:39:28] Thank you. That's an important clarification.
[1:39:29] The petition itself, so under our general statutes, 20 people can create a petition
[1:39:34] if they want. That's a completely valid thing to do.
[1:39:37] It's whether or not the items on this petition are valid in and of themselves.
[1:39:42] And that's what Jeff is explaining right now.
[1:39:45] What's a simple
[1:39:50] thing a town meeting could get 20 people and sign a petition and force the Board of
[1:39:54] Selectmen to do?
[1:39:55] Ordinance.
[1:39:56] An ordinance.
[1:39:57] Abolish an ordinance, repeal, amend, adopt an ordinance, create a
[1:40:03] committee.
[1:40:05] That kind of thing.
[1:40:06] Again, assuming it doesn't conflict with anything else in the charter or the
[1:40:11] general statutes. Okay?
[1:40:13] Mm-hmm.
[1:40:14] So let's say you wanted to create a, I'm going to pick on him because he's sitting
[1:40:17] there looking at me. Let's say you want to create a fire commission oversight
[1:40:22] committee,
[1:40:23] somebody to keep an eye on the fire commission.
[1:40:25] Mm-hmm.
[1:40:26] My opinion would be that's not proper because there's a statute.
[1:40:30] Same thing with the police commission.
[1:40:31] Mm-hmm.
[1:40:32] Okay? There are other boards and commissions that are not creatures of statute,
[1:40:37] right? A
[1:40:39] lot of towns have more, unfortunately for me, in the towns that I represent, a lot
[1:40:45] of towns have more boards, commissions, and committees than North Haven,
[1:40:49] significantly more. Architectural review boards, downtown beautification
[1:40:54] committees, standing building committees, permanent project building committees.
[1:40:58] If the town meeting wanted to present, we don't have it under the charter, it's not
[1:41:03] somebody else's role. If the town meeting wants to call a special town meeting to
[1:41:08] talk about that Take action on it. It's perfectly within their purview under the
[1:41:12] charter.
[1:41:13] And if they had 20 people sign a petition saying, "We want to create a
[1:41:17] beautification commission for the green," they could present that to us, it would
[1:41:22] be a valid purpose, and we would have no choice but to call a town meeting for that
[1:41:26] purpose.
[1:41:26] Correct.
[1:41:28] So anything having to do with the spending of money, appropriation of money, where
[1:41:34] does that sit? Where does the authority to spend the dollars of this town sit?
[1:41:37] I think you've already said that in terms of starting with the board of finance.
[1:41:40] I just said, yes, I just want you to speak on it one more time.
[1:41:49] If the idea is you want an answer about whether the town meeting in
[1:41:55] a vacuum and without the participation of the board of finance can just spend
[1:42:00] money, the answer is no.
[1:42:02] So let's, so Bill, there was a reason why I was asking.
[1:42:05] Go ahead. Sorry.
[1:42:07] No, it's totally fine. What would happen if 20 people could get together and force
[1:42:12] the board of selectmen to call a town meeting to spend money?
[1:42:14] What would be the result of that?
[1:42:19] Well, the problem becomes, where are we getting the money from?
[1:42:27] There's only a couple places that we get money from.
[1:42:30] One is the unappropriated fund balance, one is the budget.
[1:42:35] Right.
[1:42:35] Right? So depending on how much money you're talking about,
[1:42:41] and whether, are we going to try to borrow it?
[1:42:45] Where's it coming from?
[1:42:46] Right.
[1:42:47] If it's not in the budget.
[1:42:50] The town meeting gets a machine vote on the budget,
[1:42:55] and it's been that way for 25 years now.
[1:42:57] It used to be just in the gym or in the auditorium at the
[1:43:03] high school. But it's been going on machine vote for about 25 years now.
[1:43:07] Right.
[1:43:07] So that's the budget, right? Once the budget's adopted, you can't-
[1:43:11] Spend money
[1:43:12] ... petition for, "Okay, I want to change the budget."
[1:43:16] Or, "I want to spend beyond the four corners of it."
[1:43:18] Well, that's a special appropriation. You go to the board of finance for that.
[1:43:22] Right. The reason I'm asking is I think it would be chaos.
[1:43:25] If you could have 20 people who could prepare a petition-
[1:43:29] How do you set a mill rate?
[1:43:30] Not only how do you set a mill rate, but
[1:43:34] if you could have 20 people prepare a petition and force the board of selectmen to
[1:43:37] call a town meeting to spend funds outside of the budget that haven't been
[1:43:41] appropriated.
[1:43:44] Chaos would ensue, right? You would have-
[1:43:46] There's no authority in the charter to do that.
[1:43:47] There's no authority, but it would also create terrible situations.
[1:43:52] Somebody could say, "I want to spend $3 million on this pet project of mine.
[1:43:56] I have 20 people who signed this petition."
[1:43:58] Yeah.
[1:43:58] "I want you to call a town meeting."
[1:43:59] Well, if you're asking me the practical import of it-
[1:44:01] Yes
[1:44:02] ... your bond rating would go to junk bond status.
[1:44:05] Right.
[1:44:06] Because there's no reliability, predictability, or stability in your budget.
[1:44:12] I'm sorry to monopolize. I just want to drive the point home here.
[1:44:14] And that's what we're doing today with the resolutions that we've, the one we've
[1:44:19] read and the other ones we're going to read.
[1:44:21] They were actually sent to the board of selectmen by the board of finance.
[1:44:26] They were sent from finance to us.
[1:44:29] Right.
[1:44:29] Yeah.
[1:44:29] They were sent by board of finance, approved them at the la-- we were both there at
[1:44:33] the last-
[1:44:33] Yeah
[1:44:33] ... board of finance meeting, and we already read one of the resolutions in terms
[1:44:38] of funding. And as it indicates at the very end there, we're going to approve the
[1:44:42] recommendations concerning those appropriations and send that to the town meeting
[1:44:46] for bonding.
[1:44:48] Right. And that's the path of how something gets done in town.
[1:44:53] Right. You could have bond counsel come in and tell you what...
[1:44:57] I review the packet
[1:45:00] before it goes to the town meeting to make sure the right resolutions are in there.
[1:45:05] If there's no board of finance resolution, it never gets to this point.
[1:45:09] Right. Because the board of finance has the-
[1:45:11] Bond counsel won't even draft it for you.
[1:45:13] Right.
[1:45:13] Because it's DOA with the bond market.
[1:45:16] And the point is, we elect folks on the board of finance to make principal choices
[1:45:20] about how we spend our dollars. The town meeting approves the budget, and if
[1:45:25] there's expenditures beyond the budget that need to be made, the board of finance
[1:45:30] has to appropriate those funds either from the contingency fund or the surplus
[1:45:34] fund.
[1:45:35] Or they recommend to the town meeting a special appropriation.
[1:45:38] We've had plenty of those over the years.
[1:45:40] Right.
[1:45:40] If the school needs a capital item like a new boiler or something-
[1:45:43] Which is happening right now, actually
[1:45:44] ... the board of finance recommends a capital item.
[1:45:46] Right.
[1:45:47] We've had it with, in my 35 years, we've had it with fire apparatus before,
[1:45:53] where the board of finance rec-- there's a presentation made by a department head,
[1:45:59] and a request is made for a special appropriation, either because it didn't make it
[1:46:04] into the budget that was approved, or it's interim.
[1:46:08] It's in between when the budgets were approved.
[1:46:11] And there's a need, it goes to the board of finance, they recommend it to the town
[1:46:15] meeting, and then you call the town meeting because the board of finance
[1:46:17] recommended it to you.
[1:46:18] Right.
[1:46:19] And it's-
[1:46:21] And if the board of finance recommended it to you
[1:46:24] and you said, "You know what? We don't want to call the town meeting.
[1:46:29] We don't want to do it." And then 20 people signed a petition saying, "The board of
[1:46:35] finance recommended this, you have to call this town meeting," then I'd be here
[1:46:39] telling you to call a town meeting.
[1:46:40] Because we cannot disobey, or we cannot say no to that
[1:46:46] request from the board of finance.
[1:46:48] If they're appropriating funds, our obligation is to call a town meeting.
[1:46:52] It's a proper purpose for the town meeting.
[1:46:54] Right.
[1:46:54] Yeah.
[1:46:56] So this is all-
[1:46:57] That's also why we have for smaller items, the contingency is just-
[1:47:00] Of course
[1:47:01] ... as Jeff said earlier, for not having to go through those steps because there
[1:47:06] could be smaller items or, that we can't plan for.
[1:47:10] And, the $300,000 contingency I think that we had this year is just a very
[1:47:16] extremely small infinitesimal amount compared to the entire budget.
[1:47:21] It's been $300,000 for a long time, folks.
[1:47:24] Yeah.
[1:47:24] For a long time.
[1:47:25] Yeah.
[1:47:25] Just for
[1:47:27] unforeseen things that we didn't appropriate that needed to be done.
[1:47:31] And just to speak to the where this was all coming from.
[1:47:36] It was coming from a group of concerned citizens who believe that the
[1:47:42] fire engine that was canceled should not have been canceled, and it should have
[1:47:47] been made a priority by the board of finance.
[1:47:50] Money should have been appropriated, and we should have not canceled that contract,
[1:47:53] and we should have an engine coming. So I think it comes from a good place.
[1:47:58] It comes from a fine place-
[1:48:00] I'm sure it does
[1:48:00] ... and a place that we can absolutely discuss.
[1:48:02] I don't question that for one minute.
[1:48:03] Correct. And I want to make that clear that this comes from people who are
[1:48:07] concerned about our fire department and the equipment they have and whether or not
[1:48:11] it meets the needs of the department.
[1:48:13] I mean, yeah-
[1:48:13] But this petition is invalid for the reasons you laid out.
[1:48:17] Right. The other concern that I have, when this was brought to me about,
[1:48:23] I've got to read my own writing, September 15th, okay, when this was sent to me.
[1:48:29] And I asked some questions of the finance director about what
[1:48:34] exactly transpired. There was never a purchase order that was requested or issued.
[1:48:42] So immediately, my concern as the town's counsel was
[1:48:48] how are you going to pay the bill? There's no encumbrance.
[1:48:52] There's no funds that have been encumbered anywhere for this.
[1:48:57] So,
[1:49:00] basically, the town has three choices.
[1:49:02] This goes a little bit beyond the petition, but you brought up the underlying
[1:49:05] circumstances.
[1:49:06] Mm-hmm.
[1:49:06] And I talked to Commissioner Criscuolo about this last week.
[1:49:10] Basically, the town in this situation has three choices.
[1:49:14] You don't cancel the contract, and
[1:49:20] you get notified the apparatus is ready for delivery. We need your $1,251,000.
[1:49:26] Where's that money coming from?
[1:49:29] Under the charter and under Connecticut General Statute 7-348,
[1:49:34] no town official has authority to cut that check, okay?
[1:49:41] Because there's not been an appropriation of $1,251,000. All right?
[1:49:46] So in that situation,
[1:49:48] town's going to get sued.
[1:49:51] Okay? And I understand the market for,
[1:49:56] I represent 23 towns, okay? I understand the shortage of this
[1:50:02] equipment, and I understand the wait list and the wait time.
[1:50:06] And if I'm here, not as a lawyer, but just as a
[1:50:12] ... regular person who's familiar with the municipal equipment market and the
[1:50:17] supply chain, I'm thinking, "Oh, we'll be able to sell it," right?
[1:50:21] If we don't get the money up. But as a lawyer, I can't stand here and say, "Don't
[1:50:26] worry about 7-348. Don't worry about the charter.
[1:50:29] If the Board of Finance doesn't come around and recommend the appropriation, and
[1:50:34] the town meeting doesn't approve it, you'll be able to sell it." Okay?
[1:50:39] Because first of all, I don't know that you're going to be able to take delivery of
[1:50:41] it, so how are you going to sell it?
[1:50:44] Okay? And for all I know, the market changes by the time it gets
[1:50:50] sold, and they sell it for less and come to you for the difference.
[1:50:55] I can't speculate about what the outcome's going to be.
[1:50:58] All I know is what the law says. So scenario number one is not at all attractive to
[1:51:03] the town because it exposes the town to 1,251,000 that hasn't been appropriated.
[1:51:08] Mm-hmm.
[1:51:08] Okay? So doing nothing
[1:51:11] is not very prudent. Okay? Scenario number two is the Board of Finance recommending
[1:51:17] the appropriation and the town meeting appropriating the money.
[1:51:21] I don't have any concern or objection to that. That's not a legal issue.
[1:51:26] That's a how-you-want-to-spend-your-money issue, right?
[1:51:30] And then scenario number three is to cancel it to mitigate the exposure. Okay?
[1:51:35] And that's what was done here. So in terms of...
[1:51:44] The chief, the fire commission, they all do a great job.
[1:51:48] I don't question their judgment. I don't know. I'm not privy.
[1:51:53] I'm not in the meetings where the discussion with the Board of Finance, if there
[1:51:57] was one, happened about why they're not recommending an appropriation.
[1:52:01] All I know is they didn't.
[1:52:04] So the town, in those three scenarios,
[1:52:10] there's not a fourth scenario where we wait it out, and if we change our
[1:52:15] mind, we don't have to pay anything.
[1:52:19] Right. And I believe, and can you tell me if this is correct, did we call the
[1:52:24] manufacturer and ask the question, "Can we continue to hold this until our town
[1:52:29] meeting and budget referendum next year?
[1:52:31] What would be the outcome if we did?" Would that have meant the cancellation fee
[1:52:35] would've been more? What was the answer to that question?
[1:52:37] Well, they said absolutely not. They wanted the money by September 30th.
[1:52:40] They wanted a firm commitment and the money by September 30th.
[1:52:43] Well, the number was going to go up.
[1:52:44] The cancellation fee was going to go up. Okay.
[1:52:47] Right.
[1:52:47] So the decision from Rich Monaco's perspective, the prudent decision was to cancel
[1:52:52] the contract, stop the bleeding, and that was the third option that you just laid
[1:52:58] out.
[1:52:59] Yeah. Again,
[1:53:04] doing nothing
[1:53:07] and hoping that by the time it's ready for delivery, the
[1:53:12] appropriation has happened,
[1:53:15] is a big concern to me because the charter and 7-348
[1:53:22] say that we shouldn't have even gotten this far.
[1:53:24] Right.
[1:53:25] Okay? Nobody has authority to obligate the town to pay that money unless
[1:53:31] it's been appropriated. And then when I found out there was no PO requested and no
[1:53:36] PO issued,
[1:53:40] I don't know how it got this far. But the reality of it is, that's not my-- Just
[1:53:45] like the town meeting has its limitations, I have my limitations.
[1:53:49] I don't get involved in your business decisions.
[1:53:52] I get asked for a legal opinion about what's appropriate under the law, not, "Hey,
[1:53:57] do you think we should have this fire engine or not?" Nobody's asked my opinion,
[1:54:00] nor should they because I don't have-
[1:54:01] Yeah
[1:54:01] ... the expertise they do.
[1:54:05] And we have discussed a number of times about how this happened, and that there was
[1:54:09] miscommunications. You've acknowledged that these things were not done properly
[1:54:15] when it happened, and we addressed it and remedied the last situation
[1:54:21] with an appropriation from the Board of Finance because there was an emergency
[1:54:24] situation with the breakdown of the ladder truck.
[1:54:26] That was a lease, right?
[1:54:27] That was a lease.
[1:54:28] Yep.
[1:54:28] You were permitted to sign the lease.
[1:54:30] So we went through the proper process there to remedy the same situation.
[1:54:35] And in this case, the Board of Finance did not determine that there was a need for
[1:54:39] another appropriation here. So that's the answer.
[1:54:43] There's a disagreement between the fiscal authority of the town and the commission
[1:54:48] responsible for managing the fire department about whether that's necessary.
[1:54:52] And to resolve that-
[1:54:53] It's their disagreement.
[1:54:54] Right.
[1:54:55] It's not the Board of Selectmen being able to circumvent the Board of Finance.
[1:55:00] That's not an option here.
[1:55:01] That's right. And I think to address the larger issue is
[1:55:05] the need of the truck. Do we need this engine? And that's a subjective question.
[1:55:10] And those types of questions should be answered by the town during a referendum
[1:55:15] process. Understanding, and this is my personal opinion, understanding that the
[1:55:20] engines will increase in cost most likely, and they may be delayed getting here
[1:55:26] because of the current market conditions.
[1:55:29] The subjective question, do we need an engine, I think should be asked and answered
[1:55:35] by the town during the referendum process.
[1:55:36] Well, that's an appropriation.
[1:55:41] Still, the Board of Finance has to make that recommendation in order for it to end
[1:55:45] up on a ballot.
[1:55:46] Well, what I'm saying is it would come through the chief's request for a new
[1:55:49] engine.
[1:55:50] Yeah.
[1:55:50] The Board of Finance would say yes to his request.
[1:55:52] It would go to the town and with the aggregate of the budget request, and so I
[1:55:56] think that's the proper place to answer this.
[1:55:58] Yeah, it can be a separate... You can certainly, a lot of towns do that.
[1:56:02] A lot of towns do it with a lot of capital items, whether it's fields or
[1:56:08] equipment, a lot of towns do it. Open space money, you make it a separate question.
[1:56:14] Right. There's no-
[1:56:15] Because that way, if people want to vote for the budget-
[1:56:17] There's no appetite for that right now.
[1:56:18] You know?
[1:56:18] Right.
[1:56:19] There's no appetite in town to do that right now.
[1:56:21] I don't know.
[1:56:22] Yeah. That's been the decision of the Board of Finance.
[1:56:25] Yeah.
[1:56:25] So-
[1:56:25] It's their call. That's the reality of it.
[1:56:32] Bill, anything more? Forgive me. I wanted to make sure we had a full discussion on
[1:56:36] it.
[1:56:36] Mm-hmm.
[1:56:36] It's been a hot topic for a long time here.
[1:56:40] Thank you so much to all of you for-
[1:56:42] Well, I liked Jeff's approach where he went through the
[1:56:46] three items and worked our way through that logically in terms of the petition
[1:56:52] versus the charter, and the respective responsibilities of the Board of Selectmen
[1:56:56] and the Board of Finance under the charter.
[1:56:59] Yeah. It's a great reminder.
[1:57:01] I think it was a good way to explain it.
[1:57:04] Yeah. Good job, Jeff, as always.
[1:57:06] Thank you.
[1:57:07] Thank you, Jeff.
[1:57:08] Are we good?
[1:57:08] We're good.
[1:57:09] Any other questions?
[1:57:11] No.
[1:57:12] Yeah.
[1:57:12] Jeff, we're allowing public comment to this issue now.
[1:57:15] Do you want me to stay?
[1:57:15] That'd be great.
[1:57:16] Okay.
[1:57:16] That'd be great. Thank you.
[1:57:18] I just want to go on the record that you're asking me to stay because my dog is
[1:57:23] home alone.
[1:57:24] Oh.
[1:57:24] My wife is, my daughter's got a medical issue, so my wife is in DC with her.
[1:57:28] I mean, this-
[1:57:29] So when I get home and my dog's been home alone for 13 hours-
[1:57:34] Oh, boy
[1:57:34] ... and my house is a mess-
[1:57:36] Go home
[1:57:36] ... I just want it to be on the record that you're asking me to stay.
[1:57:39] I think, we'll give you-
[1:57:41] I'll stay, but-
[1:57:42] ... 10 minutes.
[1:57:43] In case you need it, Jeff-
[1:57:44] 10 minutes
[1:57:44] ... you can have
[1:57:46] my dog bag.
[1:57:47] I think we're past that.
[1:57:49] Yeah. All right. Let's, yeah.
[1:57:51] Like everyone always says, "In memory of my dog."
[1:57:56] Peter Criscuolo, 54, Fields Lane Court.
[1:57:58] And trust me, I have the utmost respect for counselor.
[1:58:02] What he says, I believe 1,000%. And if you go back to the meetings, I said, "If
[1:58:07] anyone could help us with this, get ahold of Jeff Demario." That's on the record.
[1:58:14] I'm going to direct this partly to what you call the council.
[1:58:16] Yeah.
[1:58:17] Is there a way that you could go back to the vendor
[1:58:23] in, I don't know how much time it would take for, I know we can't do the petition,
[1:58:28] everything else. Maybe go back to the Board of Finance
[1:58:33] some way
[1:58:35] to prolong this maybe 90 or 120 days.
[1:58:40] Even if they say we paid what? 31,000, $32,000, whatever we paid.
[1:58:45] Somebody mentioned about a 2% increase per month if we stall it, okay?
[1:58:52] Is it possible where we can get another 120 days?
[1:58:56] Let's say it costs us 2% a month, 8%.
[1:59:00] Let's say 10% is $3,200, not the end of the world, okay?
[1:59:05] I'm sure we can find that in appropriated funds somewhere.
[1:59:09] Last week we talked about how much money that we have Coming in over our
[1:59:13] anticipated budget, $150,000 a month, half a million dollars we got extra back from
[1:59:20] Board of Ed. That pays for the entire engine just with that on a 12-month basis.
[1:59:25] But let's go beyond that. First and foremost, why did
[1:59:31] someone call from the town, the vendor, and cancel if there was no communication
[1:59:37] from the vendor to us? The vendor, from what I understand, never called the town
[1:59:42] and said, "Hey, your apparatus is coming August the 27th.
[1:59:48] Do you still want it? Do you still want to pay for it, or do you want to get
[1:59:50] penalized?" I don't think anyone called from the vendor, and I may be wrong.
[1:59:56] I don't know that. That's why I'm asking.
[1:59:57] I have no idea.
[1:59:59] I've asked that question at a couple of meetings.
[2:00:01] You can go back on the tapes, and you'll check it. I can't get an answer.
[2:00:06] I understand that September, our finance director poked the bear and said, "We
[2:00:12] can't take it," and that's it. Opened this up for the penalty.
[2:00:17] Took us off the vendors list. It's a 42 to 48-month wait. Okay?
[2:00:24] And I want to stand corrected, last week, the finance director asked me if we can
[2:00:29] get four pieces of apparatus out all at once. I was not sure, so I checked.
[2:00:33] Yes, we can. If we have to get them out, we can get out four because we'll take one
[2:00:38] out of Northeast with a minimum of three volunteers on the engine, the Ridge, three
[2:00:44] on the engine. We'll have three at headquarters, and we'll have three at Mountain
[2:00:48] Lakes. So that would work. And if it was really bad, we could get other volunteers
[2:00:53] to come in, another group of three, and take out a fifth engine.
[2:00:57] So it is possible, okay? We do have a lot of breakdown.
[2:01:01] Even with the engines that are 12, eight years old, we still get breakdowns with
[2:01:06] those. We had them just last week with our ladder.
[2:01:09] Seven weeks old, it was tied up for a month. A month, okay?
[2:01:13] We have apparatus now that is out of shelf time.
[2:01:17] NFPA says 20 years, five years for backup. They're responsible. They run.
[2:01:23] If they're at Selectmen as a volunteer, he said he's been on them, they run.
[2:01:27] Are they dependable? We have brand new ones that aren't dependable, that they break
[2:01:32] down. Now you have something that's already out of date.
[2:01:35] I don't know if our insurance even covers that, that they're out of date, and we're
[2:01:38] still using them. I don't even know if that works, okay?
[2:01:41] So between
[2:01:44] you and I, listen, utmost respect for you. If anybody can do it, it's you.
[2:01:49] Trust me. If we can get this prolonged with the vendor,
[2:01:55] give us 120 days, maybe we could get a special meeting somehow.
[2:01:59] Some way, somehow, through the Board of Finance, we can get some kind of a meeting
[2:02:03] to open this back up again.
[2:02:06] Push comes to shove, I'm sure that after the first of the year, we'll be able to
[2:02:11] put this in a budget for a capital for emergency spending.
[2:02:16] We did an emergency spending because the motor blew on truck one.
[2:02:21] On truck two rather, it blew, and we had to get an emergency spend, and we got the
[2:02:24] Quint. Now we have two engines right now that are out of shelf life,
[2:02:30] two already. We have a third one that's going to come up very shortly, okay?
[2:02:36] If we have to postpone this, and we lose this, and we order it next
[2:02:41] year, we have a four-year wait.
[2:02:45] 70% of our fleet's out of time. We're out of time.
[2:02:48] We're out of shelf life because of the four-year wait.
[2:02:51] It's not like, and I use a police cruiser-
[2:02:53] Pete, I'm so sorry to interrupt. Remember, there's a five-minute limit here.
[2:02:56] Thank you.
[2:02:57] Okay. Keep going.
[2:02:58] The answer to your question-
[2:03:00] It's not five minutes
[2:03:00] ... is in an attorney-client relationship, I'm an attorney.
[2:03:05] So if my client wants me to contact, the town wants me to contact the vendor
[2:03:10] and see what they'd be willing to do by way of holding off, I'll certainly
[2:03:16] do it. But somebody's got to direct me to do that.
[2:03:19] I don't have any contact info for the vendor.
[2:03:22] I haven't had any communications with the vendor.
[2:03:24] I've asked that question from the first meeting I stood up here, and I said to
[2:03:29] everyone up here at both meetings, "Give it to Jeff Donofrio."
[2:03:33] But Pete, to answer, stay.
[2:03:38] I believe I asked the question a moment ago.
[2:03:41] The manufacturer was contacted, and we asked what the options were, and the
[2:03:46] response was, "You got to pay me by the end of the month, and if you don't, the
[2:03:50] cancellation fee continues to tick."
[2:03:52] They wanted a 100% commitment from the town that it will accept and pay for the
[2:03:58] truck once it's produced.
[2:04:01] And if we ask, can we continue to hold it and
[2:04:07] pay you an interest fee or a ticking fee or something, and the response was it'll
[2:04:12] keep getting-
[2:04:12] Pete, I'm telling you, they said we needed to say by September 30th.
[2:04:15] They wanted a
[2:04:17] 100% commitment by September 30th that we would take-
[2:04:23] Originally, it was said that we would have to pay a percentage of interest for
[2:04:27] every month after that. It wasn't in full until after we poked the bear again.
[2:04:33] So poking the bear caused this whole problem.
[2:04:36] The point I make it also, if we continue to hold this off, if council can hold this
[2:04:41] off by direction of whatever board, finance or selectmen, if we could hold this
[2:04:47] off for a while, maybe we could get this through an emergency grant like we did
[2:04:53] with the ladder, based on the fact that we don't have equipment that's certified by
[2:04:58] NFPA.
[2:05:00] Pete, so I'll try to address it. Listen, to be clear, your dedication to the
[2:05:05] department is unquestioned. I think what we're saying up here, what the Board of
[2:05:09] Finance is saying, is the need for this engine right now, that's a subjective
[2:05:14] question. They did not believe there's a need for this engine, so they did not
[2:05:18] appropriate the money. Therefore,
[2:05:21] there's no town meeting to call to appropriate additional funds.
[2:05:24] I understand that. If we get an extension, and we could do it under an emergency
[2:05:28] purchase, and you say the Board of Finance didn't think that there's an immediate
[2:05:33] need. How could they say there's not an immediate need
[2:05:38] if we have vehicles, apparatus, that's four, five, and six years old that is out
[2:05:44] of commission for a month at a time because of the work? There's problems.
[2:05:51] There's a new system with diesels. We have to get it.
[2:05:57] Trust me, it's great for the environmental, it's bogging down our equipment, okay?
[2:06:02] Plus the use that we're constantly running.
[2:06:05] Again, we have a ladder truck that at this juncture, that ladder truck should have
[2:06:09] 30 to 32,000 miles on it. Same truck, we're at 60,000 miles.
[2:06:15] We've doubled the use because we're running a piece of apparatus we shouldn't be,
[2:06:20] but it's covering another piece of apparatus.
[2:06:23] Okay, so-
[2:06:25] So Chief will put it in his budget in January.
[2:06:27] The Board of Finance will decide whether or not it's an appropriate expenditure of
[2:06:31] capital funds.
[2:06:32] Exactly. But if we could hold this off till January, we are in October.
[2:06:37] If we could hold this off-
[2:06:38] But we can't.
[2:06:42] We can't.
[2:06:42] January doesn't help us because-
[2:06:44] I would-
[2:06:45] ... the money won't be available till after the beginning of the next business.
[2:06:48] But originally, the vendor-
[2:06:49] That's July
[2:06:50] ... originally, the vendor never called us. We called the vendor. Why?
[2:06:54] I don't know yet. I still don't know why we called the vendor.
[2:06:56] Because we didn't have a purchase order.
[2:06:57] I understand that, but we didn't have a purchase order for the Quint.
[2:07:02] Right.
[2:07:02] But we didn't call the vendor.
[2:07:05] We called the vendor. No one seems to know why the finance director called the
[2:07:10] vendor. He called the vendor on his own.
[2:07:12] And then we-
[2:07:13] Well, that's-
[2:07:13] Once you opened up that can of worms-
[2:07:15] That's not accurate
[2:07:15] ... this is what happened. So it's too late. I mean, it's already done.
[2:07:18] But Pete, that's not an accurate statement.
[2:07:20] The finance director called the vendor because we didn't have the appropriation
[2:07:24] necessary for the engine.
[2:07:26] Well, he could've waited to find out if we could've got it by the first of the year
[2:07:30] instead of calling now.
[2:07:31] I think that was asked and answered of the manufacturer.
[2:07:33] And they said you need a firm commitment for a million two, and the board declined.
[2:07:36] Only after he called them. Had he not called them first, they never would've called
[2:07:41] us.
[2:07:42] Then they would've delivered the truck and we didn't have the money.
[2:07:44] But we had no-
[2:07:45] Now hold on a second. We're past the five minutes.
[2:07:47] We could've waited till August the 27th.
[2:07:50] Pete, just listen. I-
[2:07:52] Go on
[2:07:52] ... the decision has been made by the Board of Finance not to appropriate funds for
[2:07:56] this period.
[2:07:56] And you know that it's another $271,000 to buy the same engine tomorrow.
[2:08:01] I-
[2:08:01] If we order it tomorrow for an emergency purchase, it's $271,000 more.
[2:08:06] All right. So those numbers, we have no idea how much.
[2:08:09] At all. We already told you.
[2:08:12] When we order it, we will get a quote, and there'll be a purchase order issued if
[2:08:16] it's approved by the town meeting Sally Breemy, please. Yes, Pete. Thank you.
[2:08:21] Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Jeff.
[2:08:22] Sally Breemy, five Blossom Drive. Mr. Criscuolo spoke for 12 minutes. I timed him.
[2:08:29] You don't want me taking-
[2:08:30] No, I want 12 minutes.
[2:08:32] Yeah. We're trying.
[2:08:36] I wasn't going to get involved in this, but I just can't help myself, I'm telling
[2:08:40] you. I just can't.
[2:08:45] The circulator came to my house with this petition, and I signed it
[2:08:51] because I believe in the town meeting form of government.
[2:08:54] Third Selectman Cohen wrote in a column about six months ago, he wrote
[2:09:00] very eloquently, how lucky we are to live in a municipality with a town meeting
[2:09:05] form of government where the people make all the big decisions.
[2:09:10] Those were his exact words. So I told her, the circulator
[2:09:16] of this current petition now before this board, 7-1 petition, I will sign it
[2:09:21] because I believe in the town meeting form of government.
[2:09:24] But unlike the quint, which I supported, I supported the need for the quint.
[2:09:30] I didn't support how it was purchased because of 7-348 and the town charter.
[2:09:37] We should have had a town meeting for that.
[2:09:39] But,
[2:09:41] I supported the quint because we needed another ladder truck. We only had one.
[2:09:45] We needed another ladder truck. This is an engine.
[2:09:49] A lot of people don't know the difference between a truck and an engine. I do.
[2:09:52] This is an engine.
[2:09:54] And I told her, "I'll sign your petition.
[2:09:56] I believe in the town meeting form of government, but if there's a town meeting,
[2:10:00] I'm going to
[2:10:02] speak against the purchase." But here's what I want to tell you.
[2:10:07] I don't decide whether I want a town meeting based on whether I'm in favor of
[2:10:12] what's on the agenda or not. I'm always going to support a town meeting because
[2:10:17] that's what our form of government is like.
[2:10:20] And until we have charter revision and we abandon the town meeting form of
[2:10:25] government, I am always going to vote for a town meeting,
[2:10:30] whether I am in favor of the end result of that meeting or not.
[2:10:38] One thing I learned in my 12 years is sometimes the rules are bent a little bit if
[2:10:43] you don't like what's going to be coming up.
[2:10:45] And sometimes the rules are followed to a T if you want the result.
[2:10:50] I don't bend the rules, I follow the rules, or I want to follow the rules all the
[2:10:55] time. So let's talk about 7-1. This is the third
[2:11:00] petition that I am familiar with. The first one that I am very familiar with was in
[2:11:06] 2009. A 7-1 came before the Board of Selectmen on May 4th,
[2:11:12] 2009. Mr. Freda was the third selectman.
[2:11:16] That was a petition by a town employee, and the question was,
[2:11:22] shall the position of engineer two in the Department of Public Works be retained or
[2:11:28] restored to the fiscal year budget?
[2:11:31] It was to restore one position worth maybe $50,000 back then in salary, who knows?
[2:11:39] The Board of Selectmen, again, Mike Freda was the third selectman at the time to
[2:11:44] vote. Board of Selectmen voted to reject the petition. Hold on a second.
[2:11:53] It was a two to one vote. Mr. Freda voted in favor of calling the town meeting.
[2:11:57] He was a good third selectman. And here's what he said. Mr.
[2:12:01] Freda cited case law that he had studied, Morris versus Cogdin,
[2:12:08] where the Supreme Court required the Board of Selectmen to call a town meeting.
[2:12:13] I wonder who gave him the cite of Morris versus Cogdin.
[2:12:17] You did.
[2:12:18] I did not. I was not involved in town government at that time.
[2:12:22] But someone gave him that cite.
[2:12:24] Sorry.
[2:12:25] And it has some companion cases, like Lyon versus Rice, which said,
[2:12:31] and I quote, "As long as the requested hearing is for any legitimate and proper
[2:12:36] purpose, the selectmen must warn the meeting and have no discretion to refuse."
[2:12:42] So what happened in 2009 when despite Mr.
[2:12:47] Freda's vote to hold the town meeting, the Board of Selectmen, the two Democrats,
[2:12:52] the first and second selectmen, voted no town meeting. What happened?
[2:12:57] It went to court on a writ of mandamus, and the town tried to get rid of that.
[2:13:03] A writ of mandamus is something that's filed to compel a public entity or public
[2:13:08] officials to do something, which was to hold the town meeting.
[2:13:11] That was what the writ of mandamus was.
[2:13:13] The town fought that, and the town lost.
[2:13:19] A very esteemed Judge Berdon
[2:13:24] said he quoted Mr. Freda's case. He quoted in his decision,
[2:13:30] Morris v. Cogdin, which was the exact case Mr.
[2:13:33] Freda quoted and is referenced in the minutes where he supported the town meeting.
[2:13:40] And so the judge said, here, 20 people
[2:13:47] have provided for a purpose. Is it for a legitimate, proper purpose?
[2:13:52] And he said, and I quote, this is the judge, "It is obvious that the appointment of
[2:13:57] an engineer two is such a purpose." I think
[2:14:06] a counsel for the town might say, "That's for the board of finance to
[2:14:11] decide." Well, the board of finance took it out of the budget, and this judge said
[2:14:17] that a town meeting could decide whether to put it back in.
[2:14:22] That's what happened. It's right here.
[2:14:24] Have you read Roberts Burns versus Town of North Haven in your-
[2:14:29] Please continue.
[2:14:30] No.
[2:14:32] I don't know how you could hear a 7-1 petition without reading this case, because
[2:14:37] it happened while Mr. Freda was on the board.
[2:14:42] So I think that if
[2:14:46] restoring a position that the board of finance took out of the budget, if a
[2:14:52] judge says restoring it is a legitimate legislative purpose, and so
[2:14:57] the Board of Selectmen should have granted that town meeting, certainly the
[2:15:03] purchase of a $1.2 million fire engine is within the purview
[2:15:09] of a legitimate legislative purpose.
[2:15:12] But town counsel says, number one, says the
[2:15:20] first item in the petition, the town needing to adopt a resolution prohibiting
[2:15:25] funds of 31,000 to cancel the contract. Well, we all know what that means.
[2:15:31] That means that the petitioner wants the contract to stay in force.
[2:15:36] That is a legitimate legislative purpose.
[2:15:39] That's why I signed the petition, even though I do not support the purchase of this
[2:15:44] engine. I believe Mr. Monaco described it correctly.
[2:15:50] I don't always agree with him, but I agreed when he said,
[2:15:54] we can't buy a lot of fire apparatus at the same time.
[2:15:58] We have to
[2:16:00] spread them out. And in 2019, we had a town meeting,
[2:16:05] we bought an engine. 2020, we bought ladder one.
[2:16:10] A couple of years ago, we took delivery of two more new engines.
[2:16:14] Now we bought a new quint. So I believe Mr.
[2:16:18] Monaco actually convinced me that we have to stagger our purchases of fire
[2:16:23] apparatus. We have bought a lot of them in the past six years.
[2:16:27] You don't want them all reaching an old age at the same time.
[2:16:31] So that's the only reason why I don't support this engine, but I did support the,
[2:16:38] I'm one person. There's a lot of people in town.
[2:16:40] I will always support a town meeting and the wisdom of the
[2:16:46] group.
[2:16:48] So I guess what I'm really trying to say is
[2:16:53] maybe it wasn't worded exactly right, but that first item in the petition is really
[2:16:59] saying, let's keep that engine contract going.
[2:17:04] And that to me, if restoring a $50,000 engineer
[2:17:10] position is a legitimate legislative purpose, then restoring a $1.2 million
[2:17:16] purchase of a fire engine is also a legitimate legislative purpose.
[2:17:22] And for that reason, this petition should be granted.
[2:17:28] I also wanna say that the contingency that
[2:17:34] was used, the 31 came from the contingency.
[2:17:38] The Board of Finance did not vote to use the contingency until after this
[2:17:44] petition was filed.
[2:17:47] I found that very interesting.
[2:17:50] It was done after the fact to
[2:17:56] reduce the effectiveness of this petition.
[2:18:00] And everyone on the Board of Finance knew that the petition had been filed.
[2:18:06] The contingency fund was authorized by the Board of Finance after the fact.
[2:18:12] So that's my position. I think that Burns versus
[2:18:19] the Town of North Haven is very clear that
[2:18:24] the 7-1 should be
[2:18:27] granted as,
[2:18:30] again, as he says here, let me get the exact court language.
[2:18:35] Here it is. "As long as the requested hearing is for any legitimate and proper
[2:18:40] purpose, the selectmen must," which was highlighted, "warn the meeting and have no
[2:18:46] discretion to refuse." I support our town meeting form of government, and that's
[2:18:51] why I signed the petition. And
[2:18:56] also, there was a 7-1 in 2017. I was the only member of the Board of
[2:19:02] Selectmen that voted to hold the town meeting, and now we have this petition.
[2:19:06] So in 2009, Third Selectman Freda fought hard for the town
[2:19:12] meeting. In 2017, Third Selectman Buemi fought even harder
[2:19:19] for the town meeting. Both times, those third selectmen lost.
[2:19:24] I paid a price. I had my house vandalized because of that.
[2:19:28] The turf field was the issue. The chrome rubber turf field was the issue, but I
[2:19:34] didn't care about vandalism. I didn't care about threats.
[2:19:38] I believed in the town meeting form of government, just as Mr.
[2:19:41] Freda, as Third Selectman in 2009, believed in the town meeting form of government.
[2:19:47] And that's all I'd like to say. Thank you.
[2:19:51] Okay.
[2:19:51] Just real quick, three things.
[2:19:53] Okay.
[2:19:54] First of all, Morris versus Cogden, that involved the town of Preston, which had no
[2:19:59] charter.
[2:20:01] No charter, unlike North Haven. Okay?
[2:20:06] The whole premise here is the town meeting is granted the authority by the charter.
[2:20:12] Notice how Attorney Buemi didn't tell you where in the charter the town meeting
[2:20:17] gets any of the authority that she thinks they have.
[2:20:20] And I also noticed she didn't bring up item number three. Okay?
[2:20:25] Item number three,
[2:20:28] the notion that the town meeting can bond without Board of Finance
[2:20:34] approval, 1,250,000 is outrageous. Okay? Outrageous.
[2:20:40] So Morris versus Cogden, Town of Preston, unlike North Haven, no charter.
[2:20:45] Secondly, we do have a charter, and you didn't hear any citation to where the town
[2:20:51] meeting supposedly gets the authority to do the things that are requested by the
[2:20:55] petition because it doesn't have the authority. Okay?
[2:20:59] And the last comment that I would make is,
[2:21:06] I'm not opposed. The idea about bending rules, I take great
[2:21:12] exception to that. Okay? That's outrageous to me.
[2:21:15] I've been doing work for the town of North Haven since 1991, okay?
[2:21:19] I've donated personal funds to the fire department. Okay?
[2:21:24] The idea that I'm opposed to this and that somehow taints my opinion, you know
[2:21:30] what? I shouldn't have even stayed because it's ridiculous. Honestly.
[2:21:34] I don't appreciate it one bit. I'm very surprised that somebody who served on the
[2:21:39] Board of Finance-
[2:21:40] Jeff
[2:21:40] ... and the Board of Selectmen would sign a petition calling for the town meeting
[2:21:43] to bond funds knowing full well they have no authority under the charter to do
[2:21:47] that.
[2:21:48] Jeff, you have our unanimous support.
[2:21:50] Yeah. So if you want-
[2:21:50] And you can go home
[2:21:51] ... if you wanna have the town meeting, have the town meeting.
[2:21:53] But if I'm asked for an opinion-
[2:21:54] We're gonna-
[2:21:55] ... about the legality of it-
[2:21:56] Yep
[2:21:56] ... my opinion will be that any outcome from that town meeting is illegal and not
[2:22:00] enforceable.
[2:22:01] We're gonna end the conversation here. Jeff, you have our unanimous support.
[2:22:05] It sounds like I'm-
[2:22:05] I'm not. It's not about me. It's about the petition.
[2:22:07] No, but we're talking about your assistance and support of this town.
[2:22:11] No, I appreciate it.
[2:22:12] You gave us an opinion, and we appreciate it, and you should go home and take care
[2:22:16] of your dog.
[2:22:16] That's what I'm gonna do.
[2:22:17] Thank you.
[2:22:19] Counsel.
[2:22:20] Thank you.
[2:22:20] You have my 100%.
[2:22:23] All right. Let's-
[2:22:23] I only addressed the first issue because that was the only one that I thought was
[2:22:28] appropriate. I agree with town attorney that two and three are not appropriate, but
[2:22:34] one, I thought was.
[2:22:35] Okay. Sally, cherry-picking the petition, I think that doesn't win the day here.
[2:22:40] So we're done with this conversation.
[2:22:41] All you need is one legitimate reason for the petition to be valid.
[2:22:43] We're done with this conversation. Does anyone else have anything?
[2:22:45] I think we've exhausted this conversation.
[2:22:47] I agree with you. Let's move on.
[2:22:49] It's not about the petition.
[2:22:51] We have to move on to our agenda.
[2:22:52] It's not about this.
[2:22:53] I understand. There's time for public comment-
[2:22:55] It's not about this
[2:22:55] ... there's public comment later. Okay.
[2:22:58] Okay. So we're gonna move forward.
[2:23:00] Mary.
[2:23:01] Yeah.
[2:23:01] Can I talk about public comment?
[2:23:02] You know where.
[2:23:03] If you want to make a comment.
[2:23:06] Mary, we're trying to-- Thank you, Mary.
[2:23:08] I know this is a-
[2:23:09] This has been 10 months of this discussion.
[2:23:13] We need to move on here.
[2:23:15] I just had some clarification because I've been trying to understand this.
[2:23:20] Mary White, Summer Lane. So it's about getting on the Board of Finance's agenda.
[2:23:25] The agenda's done by the Board of Finance's chairman, okay?
[2:23:30] How do you get on the Board of Finance's agenda?
[2:23:32] The item is put in the department head's budget at the workshop.
[2:23:37] The budget goes to the Board of Finance.
[2:23:40] The Board of Finance decides whether or not that item stays in the budget, yes or
[2:23:46] no. Also, what we heard tonight is there could be a presentation
[2:23:52] or an event that the Board of Finance and the finance director see,
[2:23:58] and they determine that the use of the contingency fund needs to happen,
[2:24:04] and then therefore, the Board of Finance chairman puts it on the
[2:24:09] agenda as a form of a resolution, and then the resolution goes to the Board of
[2:24:15] Selectmen,
[2:24:17] and then it gets called for a town meeting. I think I got it. Is that right?
[2:24:23] Sounds right.
[2:24:24] Yeah.
[2:24:24] Sounds right.
[2:24:25] That's okay. Yeah.
[2:24:26] Okay, because an event could be a truck blowing up or something like that.
[2:24:29] We've got to move on.
[2:24:29] I think I got it.
[2:24:30] Okay, we've got to move on to finish this business here, okay?
[2:24:33] Thank you, Mary.
[2:24:34] Let's go back to the bonding.
[2:24:34] Yeah, let's quickly do the bonding here.
[2:24:37] So the seven million for Sackett Point was seconded-
[2:24:40] Seconded.
[2:24:41] They didn't vote on the petition.
[2:24:43] Oh.
[2:24:45] Thank you, Sally.
[2:24:46] Thanks. Okay, so-
[2:24:47] All right. We need to vote on the petition
[2:24:47] ... I would like to make a motion to reject the petition for a special town
[2:24:52] meeting. Do I have a motion, is there a second?
[2:24:55] I'll second.
[2:24:56] Any other discussion?
[2:24:58] Hearing none, all those in favor?
[2:24:59] Aye.
[2:25:00] Aye.
[2:25:00] Aye.
[2:25:00] Let's move on. Okay. All right, so the old number seven, we finished, right?
[2:25:06] We had a second, and we had a-
[2:25:07] Yeah.
[2:25:07] Yes, is that right, though?
[2:25:08] Yes.
[2:25:08] Okay. Great.
[2:25:09] So we're going to old number eight.
[2:25:10] Old number eight. Okay, terrific.
[2:25:13] Consider-- I'm sorry, Bill, would you like to-
[2:25:16] Sure.
[2:25:17] Okay.
[2:25:17] Give you a break.
[2:25:22] Next item on the agenda is consider and act upon a resolution recommending a $2
[2:25:27] million appropriation in bond authorization for pedestrian and safety
[2:25:33] improvements on Church Street. The project shall consist of upgrades to roadway and
[2:25:38] sidewalk conditions, crosswalks, traffic controls, lighting,
[2:25:44] signage, handicap access, and other related improvements and repairs.
[2:25:51] Resolved that the Board of Selectmen recommends that the Town of North Haven
[2:25:56] appropriate $2 million for pedestrian and safety improvements on Church Street.
[2:26:01] The project shall consist of upgrades to roadway and sidewalk conditions,
[2:26:07] crosswalks, traffic controls, lighting, signage, handicap
[2:26:12] access, and other related improvements and repairs.
[2:26:16] The appropriation may be spent for design, construction, demolition, and removal
[2:26:22] costs, materials, installation, easements, equipment, engineering fees,
[2:26:28] other consultant's fees, legal fees, net temporary interest and other financing
[2:26:33] costs, and other expenses related to the project, and that the town issue bonds or
[2:26:41] notes and temporary notes in an amount not to exceed $2 million to finance
[2:26:47] the appropriation. The total amount of bonds issued shall be reduced by the amounts
[2:26:52] of grants or other funds received and not separately appropriated
[2:26:58] for the project. So I'll make a motion for that resolution.
[2:27:02] I'll second.
[2:27:03] All right, motion, second. Any other discussion?
[2:27:07] Hearing none. All those in favor?
[2:27:08] Aye.
[2:27:08] Aye.
[2:27:09] Next.
[2:27:10] Okay, number nine, consider an act upon a resolution recommending a $3 million
[2:27:13] appropriation and bond authorization for construction of drainage improvements on
[2:27:18] Poole Road. The project shall consist of improvements too, including replacements
[2:27:22] of storm trains, sewer pipes, curbs, and runoff pavement repairs, and other related
[2:27:26] improvements and repairs. Resolve that the Board of Selectmen recommends that the
[2:27:30] Town of North Haven appropriate $3 million for construction of drainage
[2:27:33] improvements on Poole Road. The project shall consist of the improvements too,
[2:27:37] including replacements of storm drains, sewer pipes, curbs, and runoff, pavement
[2:27:41] repairs, and other related improvements and repairs.
[2:27:44] The appropriation may be spent for design, construction, demolition, removal costs,
[2:27:47] materials, installation, easements, equipment, engineering fees, other consultants'
[2:27:51] fees, legal fees, net temporary interest and other financing costs, and other
[2:27:55] expenses related to the project. And that the town issue bonds or notes and
[2:27:59] temporary notes in the amount not to exceed three million to finance the
[2:28:02] appropriation. The total amount of bonds issued shall be reduced by the amount of
[2:28:05] grants or other funds received and not separately appropriated for the project.
[2:28:12] Okay. Is there a motion?
[2:28:13] There's-
[2:28:15] Motion on the floor. Is there a second?
[2:28:16] I'll second that motion.
[2:28:18] All right, we have a motion and a second. Any other discussion?
[2:28:21] Hearing none, all those in favor?
[2:28:23] Aye.
[2:28:23] Aye.
[2:28:23] Next.
[2:28:25] Next is consider an act upon a resolution recommending a $7 million appropriation
[2:28:31] bond authorization for the milling and paving of town roadways and drainage
[2:28:35] improvements. The project shall consist of milling and removal of waste materials,
[2:28:40] paving and materials, installation of manholes and drainage risers, traffic
[2:28:45] protection, including signage and police and flag personnel, and other
[2:28:50] related improvements and repairs.
[2:28:57] Resolve that the Board of Selectmen recommends that the Town of North Haven
[2:29:00] appropriate $7 million for the milling and paving of town roadways and drainage
[2:29:06] improvements. The project shall consist of milling and removal of waste materials,
[2:29:11] paving and materials, installation of manholes and drainage risers, traffic
[2:29:17] protection, including signage and police and flag personnel, and other related
[2:29:22] improvement and repairs. The appropriation may be spent for design, demolition,
[2:29:28] and construction costs, equipment, furnishings, materials, site
[2:29:34] improvements, survey costs, architectural fees, engineering fees,
[2:29:39] other consultants' fees, legal fees, net temporary interest and other financing
[2:29:45] costs, and other expenses related to the project, and that the town issue bonds or
[2:29:50] notes and temporary notes in an amount not to exceed $7 million to finance the
[2:29:56] appropriation. The total amount of bonds issued shall be reduced by the amount of
[2:30:01] grants or other funds received and not separately appropriated for the project.
[2:30:07] So I'll make a motion for that resolution.
[2:30:09] I'll second.
[2:30:10] All right. A motion, second. Any other discussion?
[2:30:13] So this is the one bond that is on our books.
[2:30:16] On our books.
[2:30:16] Yep.
[2:30:17] Yes.
[2:30:17] Got it.
[2:30:17] For the roads.
[2:30:18] All those in favor?
[2:30:19] Aye.
[2:30:20] Aye.
[2:30:20] Thank you. Next.
[2:30:22] Consider an act upon a resolution recommending $800,000 appropriation of bond
[2:30:26] authorization for the Connectivity Project.
[2:30:28] The project shall consist of the installation, repair of improvements to sidewalks,
[2:30:32] roads, and other infrastructure in order to make conditions safer and more
[2:30:34] accommodating for pedestrians and bicyclists, improve safety and other related
[2:30:39] improvements and repairs. Resolve that the Board of Selectmen recommends that the
[2:30:43] Town of North Haven appropriate $800,000 for the Connectivity Project.
[2:30:46] The project shall consist of the installation, repair of improvements to sidewalks,
[2:30:50] roads, and other infrastructure in order to make conditions safer and more
[2:30:53] accommodating for pedestrians and bicyclists, improve safety and other related
[2:30:57] improvements and repairs. The appropriation may be spent for design, construction,
[2:31:02] demolition, and removal costs, materials, construction, installation, easements,
[2:31:05] equipment, engineering fees, other consultants' fees, legal fees, net temporary
[2:31:09] interest and other financing costs, and other expenses related to the project, and
[2:31:13] that the town issue bonds or notes and temporary notes in amount not to exceed
[2:31:16] $800,000 to finance the appropriation.
[2:31:20] The total amount of bonds issued shall be reduced by the amount of grants or other
[2:31:23] funds received and not separately appropriated for the project.
[2:31:28] So let's make a motion there.
[2:31:31] I will second that motion.
[2:31:32] All right, motion, second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor?
[2:31:38] Aye.
[2:31:38] Aye.
[2:31:39] Okay, so this is the omnibus resolution
[2:31:45] for all of the things that we will be discussing and voting on at the next town
[2:31:49] meeting scheduled for October 20th.
[2:31:52] Yes.
[2:31:53] Yeah?
[2:31:53] That's it, yes.
[2:31:54] That is.
[2:31:54] Bill, go for it.
[2:31:55] Thank you.
[2:31:57] Consider an act upon a resolution calling for the annual town meeting to be held
[2:32:02] Tuesday, October 20th, 2026, at 6:30 PM in the
[2:32:08] auditorium of the North Haven High School, 221 Elm Street in North Haven,
[2:32:13] Connecticut, to consider, discuss, and act upon the aforesaid resolutions.
[2:32:19] Resolve that the annual town meeting be held Tuesday, October 20th, 2026,
[2:32:25] at 6:30 PM in the auditorium of the North Haven High School, 221
[2:32:31] Elm Street in North Haven, Connecticut, to act upon the following resolutions in
[2:32:37] accordance with the recommendation of the Board of Finance concerning the
[2:32:41] adjustment of appropriations, certain line items among the various departments in
[2:32:47] the fiscal year 2025 to 2026 budget, transferring
[2:32:52] amounts over $20,000 in the total sum of
[2:32:56] $994,382.29.
[2:33:04] To consider and vote upon whether to adopt Article 13,
[2:33:10] exemptions for veterans with total service-connected disability and surviving
[2:33:15] spouses of residents killed in action of the taxation ordinance in
[2:33:21] Chapter 184 of the ordinances of the Town of North Haven.
[2:33:26] In item number C, to consider and vote upon the above recommendations concerning
[2:33:31] the aforesaid appropriations and bond authorizations, and that the notice for the
[2:33:37] annual town meeting presented at this meeting be approved and signed.
[2:33:42] I'll make a resolution for those items.
[2:33:46] All right.
[2:33:47] I'll second.
[2:33:48] Second?
[2:33:48] Yep.
[2:33:49] Okay. Motion and a second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor?
[2:33:54] Aye.
[2:33:54] Aye. Thank you.
[2:33:56] Aye. Sorry.
[2:33:57] Okay. Bond releases.
[2:33:58] Bond releases, individually.
[2:34:01] Yes.
[2:34:02] Number 13, bond releases and reductions.
[2:34:04] Bond number P24-10, Edible Arrangements, 101 Washington Avenue.
[2:34:09] Amount of original bond, $3,000. Current balance of bond, $3,000.
[2:34:12] Release the entire bond balance of $3,000 with the recommendation of Planning and
[2:34:16] Zoning Commission.
[2:34:19] Make a motion to release bond number P24-10.
[2:34:24] Is there a second?
[2:34:26] I'll second.
[2:34:26] Okay. Motion, second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye.
[2:34:32] Aye.
[2:34:33] Aye.
[2:34:34] I'll continue. Bond number P14-26, Central Plan Construction Company, Half Mile and
[2:34:39] Benedict Drive. Amount of original bond, $3,730,000.
[2:34:44] Current balance of bond, $3,730,000.
[2:34:49] Release the entire bond balance of $3,730,000 with the recommendation of the
[2:34:53] Planning and Zoning Commission. Make a motion to release bond number P14-26.
[2:35:01] I'll second that motion.
[2:35:03] Okay, motion, second. Any other discussion? Hearing none.
[2:35:06] A little bit higher than normal amount in terms of a $3 million bond.
[2:35:11] All the backups in there, I think it's all right.
[2:35:12] That's what I was just looking at.
[2:35:13] Okay. All those in favor?
[2:35:16] Aye.
[2:35:16] Aye.
[2:35:16] Okay. David?
[2:35:18] All right. Property tax refunds. We'll do this in one go.
[2:35:22] We have a list of property tax refunds in here,
[2:35:26] very immaterial dollars here across the board.
[2:35:30] I'll make a motion to accept all property tax refunds.
[2:35:34] Okay. Is there a second?
[2:35:36] Don't see anything that I have an issue with.
[2:35:38] I'll second those property tax refunds.
[2:35:41] All right. Motion, second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor?
[2:35:47] Aye.
[2:35:48] Aye.
[2:35:48] Thank you. Item 15, the next regular scheduled meeting of this Board of Selectmen
[2:35:52] is Thursday, November 5th, at 6:30 here in the upstairs conference room at the
[2:35:57] Memorial Town Hall.
[2:36:00] Now we're up for the point of other public comment. Peter?
[2:36:09] Peter Criscuolo, 54 Fieldstone Court.
[2:36:12] Mike, I know you're leaving in January, and sadly missed, and I know all these
[2:36:18] years you were gracious enough
[2:36:22] and unselfish to put yourself in economic development director's role for no pay.
[2:36:28] Nothing. Zero. Okay? I would like, you have a couple more months to think
[2:36:34] about it, if you would stay on after the first of the year as head of economic
[2:36:40] development, president, chair, whatever.
[2:36:43] Because no one's going to do it like you, okay?
[2:36:47] And I don't want to see the infrastructure of this town collapse.
[2:36:53] I will consider it. Not to be the head, but I'm already a member of the commission,
[2:36:58] okay? So I might be able to work this out, because any new
[2:37:04] development that I'm directly involved with bringing in is going to be additional
[2:37:07] customers for the water authorities.
[2:37:11] Oh, okay.
[2:37:13] So I'm going to consider this, okay?
[2:37:16] Thank you very much.
[2:37:17] Interesting.
[2:37:18] I don't mean to put you on the spot, but-
[2:37:19] That's okay.
[2:37:20] Yeah.
[2:37:20] That's okay. Thank you.
[2:37:21] But we need you there.
[2:37:22] Thank you.
[2:37:22] Thank you very much.
[2:37:25] Mary White. Yes.
[2:37:29] Thanks, Pete.
[2:37:38] Mary White, Summer Lane. Just very briefly, the next scheduled Board of Selectmen
[2:37:42] meeting we heard is Thursday, November 5th. Election day is Tuesday, November 3rd.
[2:37:48] I encourage everybody to get out and vote, and I say you can't complain unless
[2:37:54] you get out and vote.
[2:37:55] Absolutely. Thank you, Mary.
[2:37:56] Don't forget, vote.
[2:37:57] Thank you. Mary, I'm serious. You should start a town newspaper.
[2:38:01] Okay.
[2:38:01] You know more than anybody, and you go to these meetings.
[2:38:06] You're incredibly diligent, you're capable, you're articulate, you're thoughtful.
[2:38:11] You should start writing this down. You would have a lot of people who read it.
[2:38:14] I'm totally serious.
[2:38:16] I'll think about it.
[2:38:17] And people would read you, and people would start to learn about what happens at
[2:38:21] these meetings, and I think you'll find a lot of interested parties. Yeah.
[2:38:25] There's plenty of opportunities, Mary, as you say, not only to vote on Election
[2:38:28] Day, but for early voting.
[2:38:30] Right.
[2:38:30] And for-
[2:38:32] You can also request your absentee ballot, I think, as of yesterday.
[2:38:36] Yes. Absolutely.
[2:38:38] And there's actually no-
[2:38:40] No excuse
[2:38:40] ... for the first time, I think there's no-excuse absentee ballots as well.
[2:38:43] So, there were reasons that you could get absentee ballots.
[2:38:47] Now you can just request one. So those are all good points by Mary. Thank you.
[2:38:53] I agree about Mary. I used to think of her as the fourth selectman.
[2:38:58] She should be the town scribe. Absolutely. She'd have her own newspaper.
[2:39:03] I love
[2:39:05] it.
[2:39:05] Sally Blamey, Five Blossom Drive.
[2:39:06] I just wanted to give an update on the Revolutionary War plaque.
[2:39:10] I wanted to thank Mr. Piper, who, when I was here last month, gave me the
[2:39:16] suggestion of meeting with the Post 76, which I did meet with.
[2:39:21] I was with you September 17th, and as a result of that meeting, we have a change
[2:39:27] in the time of the
[2:39:30] ceremony because the Post 76 guys, we were talking at last month's meeting
[2:39:36] about it starting at 11:00, but the Post 76
[2:39:41] members couldn't make it that early because they're tied up at the pancake
[2:39:46] breakfast over at the middle school that morning.
[2:39:49] So we are moving the Revolutionary War plaque to noon with the
[2:39:57] regular veterans ceremony immediately thereafter.
[2:40:01] So I wanted everyone to know about the one-hour change.
[2:40:04] This is still on the second Sunday?
[2:40:05] It's still on Sunday-
[2:40:07] The 8th.
[2:40:08] November 8th.
[2:40:09] Yes. Okay.
[2:40:09] On the green, but not at 11:00, at noon.
[2:40:13] Mm-hmm.
[2:40:13] And so, we definitely wanted to accommodate the veterans at
[2:40:19] Murray Reynolds Post 76. So again, I thank Second Selectman Piper for suggesting
[2:40:25] that I meet with them, and we had a great meeting. And again, great donuts.
[2:40:30] So it was great.
[2:40:31] Well, you've done a great job getting this
[2:40:35] plaque-
[2:40:36] Sorry, I don't understand.
[2:40:38] Somebody's AI is taking over.
[2:40:40] This plaque done. Completed, but also the movement of the other two plaques.
[2:40:46] Yes.
[2:40:46] And actually, I think what we did at the veterans meeting is,
[2:40:50] or at the American Legion meeting, is the Veterans Day ceremony is really one
[2:40:55] ceremony, and it starts off with the
[2:40:59] plaque, but it's also part of the normal ceremony.
[2:41:04] It's just really one-
[2:41:05] Yes.
[2:41:05] It's not two separate ceremonies. It's one big one.
[2:41:07] We're going to do it as one-
[2:41:08] As one
[2:41:09] ... with the regular, very poignant, we have it every year, the Veterans Day
[2:41:14] ceremony led by commander of the Post 76.
[2:41:19] So it'll start at noon. I just wanted to report that change.
[2:41:24] And my final fundraising was $10,405, which,
[2:41:29] after talking at, meeting at length with Finance Director Monaco, was
[2:41:35] certainly enough to pay the $7,600 for the bronze plaque, as well as the
[2:41:41] installation of not just the new Revolutionary War plaque, but the other two that
[2:41:46] you already alluded to, the Civil War plaque and the World War I plaque, which will
[2:41:50] join the Revolutionary War plaque on the back of the existing World War II
[2:41:56] monument. So I was very happy to have been able to raise enough funds for the
[2:42:01] installation of all three. And again, I thank all of the donors who I will be
[2:42:06] thanking individually
[2:42:10] in a list form at the ceremony. So, thank you.
[2:42:14] Noon on Sunday, November 8th. Thank you.
[2:42:17] Thank you, Sally.
[2:42:17] Thank you. Thank you for all you accomplished for-
[2:42:20] Yes.
[2:42:22] And that's a major, I think,
[2:42:25] a great addition to the town green based on what you're doing in terms of
[2:42:29] remembering
[2:42:32] residents of New Haven that were in the Revolution, and also now the Civil War and
[2:42:38] World War I.
[2:42:39] Yeah, there's a very old plaque, but now they'll be seen.
[2:42:43] Where we actually know they're there.
[2:42:45] Yes.
[2:42:45] Great. Thank you. Thank you, Sally.
[2:42:46] Good job. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, seeing no other public comment, the motion to
[2:42:51] adjourn.
[2:42:53] Second?
[2:42:54] No.
[2:42:56] I'll second.
[2:42:58] All right. All those in favor?
[2:42:59] Aye.
[2:43:00] Aye. Thank you very much. Thank you.
[2:43:01] Thank you, everybody.
[2:43:04] The preceding program is brought to you in part through a grant from
[2:43:10] the Town of North Haven.
[2:43:19] Watch town meetings or
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