1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,880
C commission I mean welcome uh welcome

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,720
everybody. Thank you for being here

3
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,240
tonight.

4
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,360
Um we have a fairly full agenda and it

5
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,840
has been requested that we really hug

6
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,480
these microphones tonight so that um we

7
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,240
can hear. So just kind of keep that in

8
00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:20,800
mind. Um and I'll do the same. Feel free

9
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,640
to remind me. Um,

10
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,400
we have the invocation or thought by

11
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,080
Commissioner Bailey and the pledge of

12
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,400
allegiance by Commissioner Jorgensson.

13
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,160
And we'll go that far.

14
00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,640
>> All right. Well, thanks everyone for

15
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,200
being here. My my thought is somewhat

16
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,160
surrounded uh some other planning

17
00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,800
commission and consequences

18
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,640
recently in the state of Utah. I've been

19
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,480
seeing comments online. It's not in

20
00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:49,920
North Agn. I think we all know what I'm

21
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,160
talking about, but

22
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:53,680
it it just brought the thought of maybe

23
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,879
unintended consequences. So, we have a

24
00:00:56,879 --> 00:01:00,800
heavy burden on our shoulders to do our

25
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,920
best to interpret our code, our zoning

26
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,479
code, our ordinances, and make a

27
00:01:06,479 --> 00:01:09,439
recommendation to our elected officials.

28
00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:11,840
But with everyone here today voicing an

29
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,680
opinion, it does it does add to the

30
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,400
conversation to ensure that we get it

31
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,040
right according to our code, according

32
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,680
to our citizens,

33
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,320
and importantly according to property

34
00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:29,600
owners in North Ogden as well. So

35
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,400
there's just a a really interesting

36
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,880
balance there. And if you look at some

37
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,280
of these other, you know, consequences

38
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,920
of decisions that you see around the

39
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,840
state,

40
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,360
you know, digging a little deeper,

41
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,040
there's there's a little bit of a

42
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,000
history of unintended consequences

43
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,320
that sometimes lead to those things you

44
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,320
didn't see coming. So, we do our best to

45
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,439
uh understand our precedent that we set,

46
00:01:57,439 --> 00:01:59,840
but our hands are sometimes tied by a

47
00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,560
precedent that was set before us. So

48
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,640
that's kind of my thought for today.

49
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,240
Thanks.

50
00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,560
>> Okay,

51
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,520
>> everyone would join and uh rise and join

52
00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,239
us in the pledge of allegiance.

53
00:02:14,239 --> 00:02:18,160
>> I aliance to the flag of the United

54
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,200
States of America and to the republic

55
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,239
for which it stands, one nation under

56
00:02:24,239 --> 00:02:27,440
God, indivisible, with liberty and

57
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,190
justice for all.

58
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,840
Thank you, Commissioner Bailey. Thank

59
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,640
you, Commissioner Jorgensson. Uh, roll

60
00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,879
call today. Well, we we'd like to excuse

61
00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:44,160
Commissioner Green. Um, she has previous

62
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,959
notice. She won't be here tonight. Um,

63
00:02:46,959 --> 00:02:50,400
and I would look for a motion to approve

64
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,040
the minutes of the May 20th meeting,

65
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,760
2026.

66
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,110
>> So moved.

67
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,560
Jorgensson.

68
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,959
>> All right. With Commissioner Swanson

69
00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:04,640
motion to approve the meetings or

70
00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:06,720
meeting minutes and Commissioner

71
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,680
Jorgensson seconded the motion. Voice

72
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,680
vote. All in favor?

73
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,159
>> I.

74
00:03:12,159 --> 00:03:15,280
Great. Any conflict of interest or

75
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,440
exparte communications or disclosures?

76
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,120
Okay.

77
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,519
>> Look at us cruising through it. All

78
00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:27,360
right. Uh we'd like to open up uh for

79
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,840
public comments for items not on the

80
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,879
agenda. Um these are specifically

81
00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:34,799
comments that maybe don't fit in with

82
00:03:34,799 --> 00:03:36,959
the agenda tonight. I wanted to read

83
00:03:36,959 --> 00:03:40,239
this. Um this this what I read now will

84
00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:43,280
go through um not only comments that

85
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,120
will be said now, but during the public

86
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,280
hearing as well. Time is made available

87
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,200
for anyone in the audience to address

88
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,720
the commission concerning matters

89
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,040
pertaining to city business. Citizens

90
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,040
will be asked to limit their remarks to

91
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,040
five minutes. We'll have a timer just in

92
00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,439
case. Um any materials that are

93
00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,280
displayed are referenced with pictures,

94
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,120
written materials, part of the record,

95
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,280
and must be left with the commission.

96
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,120
Speakers are required to have signed in

97
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,040
at the door and will state their name

98
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,840
and city residing before beginning

99
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,000
remarks. If you agree with the previous

100
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,840
speaker, state your agreement to avoid

101
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,479
repetitious remarks. Speakers shall

102
00:04:18,479 --> 00:04:20,000
address the commission from the podium

103
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,759
or microphone and shall address all

104
00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:25,440
comments to the planning commission.

105
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,960
Uh with that being said, find first page

106
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,400
again. Um any public comments for items

107
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,230
not on the agenda?

108
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:43,110
» Uhhuh. Yep.

109
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,639
» I've only done one to one other of these

110
00:04:44,639 --> 00:04:46,800
medies. Anyway, this I'm Janine Mcnite.

111
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,720
I live here in North Ogden and I have

112
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,080
lived here since August of 1993.

113
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,479
When I moved in, there was only one

114
00:04:54,479 --> 00:04:56,240
block above us on the hill and

115
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,040
everything was mountain. So I have seen

116
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,000
numerous changes, many of which of

117
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,560
course have made it more noisy and busy

118
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,880
and and some of that in the name of

119
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,080
progress is good and some may not be.

120
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,240
So, um, in items not on the agenda, I

121
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,560
didn't see anything about the

122
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,520
convenience store on 3100. And that's

123
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,120
what I wanted to address. I wanted to

124
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,199
find out in coming tonight what the

125
00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:26,880
process is of of zoning and how you

126
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,160
reszone, if that's put to a vote of the

127
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,800
citizens or you just hear comment and

128
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,320
then you make a vote and it's your

129
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,240
majority. How is that done?

130
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,510
Um,

131
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,479
» so uh the you'll see it happen tonight.

132
00:05:44,479 --> 00:05:44,880
Okay.

133
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,240
>> Not for that property that you're

134
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,880
talking about, but essentially someone

135
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,720
creates a petition, comes before this

136
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,160
group, and this group makes a

137
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,320
recommendation to the city council.

138
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:55,840
>> The city council is the one that has a

139
00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:57,840
final vote, but this is where the public

140
00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:59,199
hearing is held that gives you the

141
00:05:59,199 --> 00:06:01,840
chance to make comment during the public

142
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,160
hearing. Uh, city council does allow for

143
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,759
public comments, just not during the

144
00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:08,080
agenda item. when they hear any things

145
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,080
like that. So,

146
00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,560
>> okay. So, then not on the agenda since

147
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,880
it's not then I want to make So, I have

148
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,600
to go to a city council meeting as well

149
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,120
or you can pass the word.

150
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,120
>> So, if when the reszone request comes,

151
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,560
it will come here first for a public

152
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,880
hearing and then there will be a city

153
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,800
council meeting after. So, potentially

154
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,560
there's two more meetings to come to.

155
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:29,919
>> Okay. So, it won't make any difference

156
00:06:29,919 --> 00:06:34,800
if I voice my opposition right now. It it always helps just in case maybe

157
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,319
you're out of town that day or

158
00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:36,720
>> Yeah.

159
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,560
>> because that I would like to do because

160
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,000
I live above 3100 and you know I've seen

161
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,600
all the changes with the houses being

162
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,560
you know the training of the the fire

163
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,319
department and and and now the the road

164
00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:55,120
being closed and I would just hate to

165
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,360
see residential turned commercial. So

166
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:09,670
I'll leave you with that. Thank you.

167
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,240
My name is Alex Hoff. Um, I do live here

168
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,479
in North Ogden. I've lived here the

169
00:07:14,479 --> 00:07:18,400
first time in 2013 to 2016 and I'm back

170
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,759
since 2020. And I also have a concern

171
00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:24,960
with this convenience store on the at

172
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,240
that property. Um, I may or may not be

173
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,360
here for the next meeting. So, I'm going

174
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,080
to voice my concern.

175
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,160
Um, first of all, I think it's a really

176
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,919
bad idea that will bring more traffic up

177
00:07:35,919 --> 00:07:38,000
there. I don't know if you're aware that

178
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,680
there is a high school and elementary

179
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,360
school and other schools. So, that's a

180
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,000
very busy road. For those of you who may

181
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,000
not know, the Utah drivers here do not

182
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,639
like to stop for red lights. I don't

183
00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:50,400
know how many times I've actually tried

184
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,199
to cross that intersection when I had

185
00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:56,479
the go um walking sign for me to go

186
00:07:56,479 --> 00:07:57,840
through and some idiots going to come

187
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,160
through and try to run me over. Also

188
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,039
realize that there's a lot of the the

189
00:08:03,039 --> 00:08:05,280
cross country track

190
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560
teams also use that road to run across

191
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,479
and go across that intersection. So I

192
00:08:10,479 --> 00:08:13,039
think this would be a very dangerous

193
00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:16,319
um idea and would endanger a lot of kids

194
00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:19,280
and adults and that sort of thing. So

195
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,879
just please keep that in mind when you

196
00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:23,680
are looking into this conversion. I also

197
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,440
believe agree with her that we need to

198
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,080
keep the residential residential and the

199
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,240
fact that you have a another Maverick

200
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,240
less than a mile away. It makes

201
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:33,839
absolutely no sense unless somebody's

202
00:08:33,839 --> 00:08:36,399
just trying to make some money on a city

203
00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:38,320
council to do this because it really

204
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,000
makes no sense for a business to be that

205
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,159
close to another business. In fact, if

206
00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:44,159
you look at uh Radio Shack, that's one

207
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:45,279
reason why they went out of business

208
00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:48,000
because they had too many businesses

209
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:55,269
next to each other. Thank you.

210
00:08:55,279 --> 00:08:58,870
» Okay.

211
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,399
» Good evening, members of the planning

212
00:09:00,399 --> 00:09:02,959
commission. Um, I've written down my

213
00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:05,360
comments so that I could keep them um,

214
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,320
concise. Um, my name is Maryanne Varner.

215
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,399
Um, I am standing here tonight alongside

216
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:12,480
my neighbors to speak on behalf of the

217
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,880
future of North Ogden. We are here to

218
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,680
present a community first vision, one

219
00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:20,000
that prioritizes long-term character of

220
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,600
our neighborhoods over short-term

221
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,440
commercialization.

222
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,360
Those of us who live here know that

223
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,560
North Ogden is a rare sanctuary. It's as

224
00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:31,440
peaceful, quiet, and exceptionally safe.

225
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,360
There is a deep pride of ownership in

226
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,920
our neighborhoods. People pay a premium

227
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,800
to live here, to retire here, to raise

228
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,600
their families here because they want

229
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,320
the specific uh quality of life that we

230
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,760
offer. We have room to breathe. We have

231
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,279
stunning views of the mountains and

232
00:09:49,279 --> 00:09:51,279
valley and passing wildlife through our

233
00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:53,440
properties. This isn't just a place

234
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,600
where people buy a starter home. This is

235
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,440
a place where people plant lifelong

236
00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,279
roots, where neighbors walk and talk,

237
00:09:59,279 --> 00:10:00,800
and where they choose to spend the rest

238
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,360
of their lives. Now, we often hear that

239
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:04,880
commercial development is about

240
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,279
convenience. But let's look at the

241
00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,600
reality. We can already reach a gas

242
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,680
station and a grocery store in less than

243
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,320
five minutes. Our daily needs are fully

244
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,040
met. As residents, we are more than

245
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,959
willing to drive an extra three to five

246
00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:21,440
minutes for minor conveniences if it

247
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,600
means keeping commercial noise, bright

248
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,040
lights, and traffic out of our

249
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,440
residential backyards.

250
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,920
For us, preserving our quiet culture far

251
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,800
outweighs raw proximity.

252
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,880
Bringing high density commercial

253
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,399
projects directly adjacent to

254
00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,279
residential homes introduces three

255
00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:42,959
severe risks. First, traffic. Few roads

256
00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:46,240
lead into our quiet community. Forcing

257
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,560
commercial traffic onto an already busy,

258
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:50,800
strained intersection is a major safety

259
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,480
concern. Second, youth and safety.

260
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,720
Placing highdensity commercial hangouts

261
00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,640
next to homes encourages late night

262
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,880
loitering, drawing kids away from their

263
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,079
homes and schools. And third, direct

264
00:11:04,079 --> 00:11:07,440
residential impact. sitting uh citing

265
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,360
these projects right next to homes

266
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,519
degrades our property values, ruins our

267
00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:13,519
dark night skies, and takes away our

268
00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:16,160
peace of mind. To capture the emotional

269
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,160
heart of this issue, I want to share a

270
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,399
sentimental echo by so many of our

271
00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:23,600
community. People choose to buy, retire,

272
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,640
and stay here for life because of what

273
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,440
we have. We pay more to protect our

274
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,920
peace, safety, and mountains. Let's not

275
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,000
lose the culture that makes North Ogden

276
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,120
special. To the members of the planning

277
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,760
commission, you live here, too. You

278
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,839
choose North You chose North Oregon for

279
00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:44,399
the exact same reasons that we did. You

280
00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:45,920
appreciate the quiet streets, the

281
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,519
mountain views, and the safety of our

282
00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:50,480
town. Tonight, we look to you to

283
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,000
represent us, to protect our

284
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,760
neighborhoods, and to defend the unique

285
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,399
character of the place we all call home.

286
00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:57,680
Thank you for your service to our

287
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:13,509
community.

288
00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:16,240
My name is Kevin Defes and I'm a

289
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,079
resident of North Ogden. I've lived here

290
00:12:18,079 --> 00:12:23,040
for over 40 years and uh I'm also one of

291
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,639
the neighbors that live up above 3100

292
00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:30,240
and Washington Boulevard is our direct

293
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,959
way in and out to our homes. Otherwise,

294
00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:34,320
we got to go over and go through

295
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,079
Pleasant View to get there. And I when I

296
00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:39,760
heard about this uh commercial

297
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,120
development, I had a big concern about

298
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,760
that, knowing that the junior high would

299
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,440
bring a lot of foot traffic through

300
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,839
there. The high school, if you've ever

301
00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:51,680
gone down to the Maverick on their lunch

302
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,560
hour, it's hard to get in out of that

303
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:56,639
bigger intersection, get in out of those

304
00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:00,959
places. And so, uh,

305
00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:02,880
before they put the turn lane down there

306
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,279
by McDonald's, there would be sometimes

307
00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,360
I would sit to try to get down through

308
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,839
two traffic lights to get in and out.

309
00:13:09,839 --> 00:13:11,680
And I just don't want to see commercial

310
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,560
development cause a real problem and

311
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,440
bottleneck for North Ogden City. That

312
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,839
road is a main thoroughfare for a lot of

313
00:13:19,839 --> 00:13:22,880
us that live up there above 3100.

314
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,440
And I just think commercial development

315
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,600
would just hinder that.

316
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,000
And I'm here tonight because I know that

317
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,839
you guys don't make the laws, the city

318
00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:35,440
council does, but they take under

319
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,800
advisement what you guys discuss and do.

320
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,720
We are going to have a lot of traffic in

321
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,880
North Ogden with some of the apartment

322
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,240
buildings going on and over there by the

323
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,200
Benlman golf course. when those homes go

324
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,959
in, they're going to come into North

325
00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:54,240
Ogden and use the grocery stores and the

326
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,120
different restaurants that are there and

327
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,399
just if we can avoid bottlenecks. I I

328
00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:02,240
realize that, you know, commercial

329
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,480
growth brings revenue for the city,

330
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,079
which is always good. Um, I'm one of

331
00:14:08,079 --> 00:14:10,959
those uh

332
00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:12,800
people that would rather not see him

333
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,079
raise our property taxes and so cutting

334
00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:18,320
cost and keeping our property taxes out

335
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,560
of it. It takes commercial growth to

336
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,519
help do that. I I realize that. But when

337
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:26,160
it comes to traffic, that should be a

338
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,320
big priority to making sure we can get

339
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,800
in and out of the city without having

340
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,760
problems. and and there's other places

341
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,839
for commercial development. I think that

342
00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:37,680
would bring revenue to the city, but it

343
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,079
would be in a safer area than near

344
00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:42,399
junior highs, grade schools, and high

345
00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:45,600
school traffic. And so, I'd appreciate

346
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,959
when this comes up in future meetings

347
00:14:48,959 --> 00:14:51,519
that you would understand that the

348
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,360
citizens, and it's not just me, my

349
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,040
neighbors all around me. I've talked to

350
00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:00,399
them and they're all in agreeance. They don't like it. And uh we just want

351
00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:04,959
to let our voice be known and uh thank

352
00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:17,030
you for your time.

353
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,199
We go ahead and assume that pause is an

354
00:15:21,199 --> 00:15:23,680
end to public comments for items not on

355
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,760
the agenda. Do we have anybody online

356
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,760
that would like to make no hand raised?

357
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,360
Oh, hands raised. Yeah.

358
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,519
>> Great. All right. We will move to item

359
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:35,760
five on the administrative side. Site

360
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,920
plan review for Coopertown commercial

361
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,320
building. Consideration and action for a

362
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,480
site plan approval for the Coopertown

363
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,079
commercial building. Presenter Ryan Nun.

364
00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:48,560
>> Thank you, Planning Commission.

365
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,320
Um,

366
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,279
this site plan review

367
00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:55,920
um for the Coopertown commercial

368
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,519
building

369
00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:01,440
uh is is part of a a larger development

370
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,880
in the master plan community zone uh for

371
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,399
Coopertown

372
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:12,079
that includes a development agreement as well. So the

373
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:14,880
review includes uh the code for the

374
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,079
language in the development agreement

375
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:18,480
and then the code for the master plan

376
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,720
community zone. Um

377
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,440
in the staff report

378
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,279
um

379
00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:32,000
essentially there there was a building permit for this. We realized

380
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,600
based on the deal of agreement it needed

381
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,920
its own site plan review. So that's why

382
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,240
it's being brought forth uh forward to

383
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,800
the planning commission.

384
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,639
Uh the language is pretty clear on

385
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:44,800
what's required for the commercial

386
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,759
building. Um it in this master plan

387
00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:52,000
community all the buildings need to look

388
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,320
very similar. The language stated in the development agreement is uh

389
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,839
approximately 40% brick and 60% uh

390
00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,720
cement board siding.

391
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,959
Um if uh based on the elevations of the

392
00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:08,400
build of this commercial building,

393
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,880
they're proposing a full

394
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,480
uh apparently 100% brick veneer. That'll

395
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,760
be a something for planning commission

396
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,000
to consider. Staff's opinion is that would that's actually an that would

397
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:30,080
be an improvement for the building um to have that full brick exterior.

398
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,720
Um the

399
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,559
it's meeting everything else based on

400
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,799
heights and setbacks.

401
00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:40,640
Uh a couple items to note

402
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,960
uh in regards to parking for the the

403
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,440
commercial building

404
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,039
there. They're proposing I um

405
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:53,679
about I think it's 17 parking stalls

406
00:17:53,679 --> 00:17:55,760
or one thing I should clarify there's no

407
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,559
use known for these uh these these uh

408
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,840
commercial stalls that they're building.

409
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,160
Uh so staff reviewed it just generally

410
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,600
as a as an office use uh which required

411
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,600
one stall per 250 square feet of the of

412
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,919
the whole floor area.

413
00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:18,080
And so they are short with the stalls

414
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,600
that are being provided on the north and

415
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:25,520
east side. Uh but based on the DA uh

416
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,919
where it states that all the parking in

417
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:30,799
this area is generally to be shared. We

418
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,360
recommend that there should be a a

419
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,919
shared parking agreement

420
00:18:35,919 --> 00:18:39,360
provided just to ensure

421
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,919
uh the neighboring parking stalls will

422
00:18:41,919 --> 00:18:45,360
can be used by the commercial use.

423
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,720
The other thing is the stalls were were

424
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,080
short. Uh the DA and our land use codes

425
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,120
say that parking stalls be 9 ft by 19.

426
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,480
They showed 9 by 18 ft. Um we've made

427
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,480
that a um note to the developer and

428
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,039
they're working on fixing that. uh so

429
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:07,840
they will meet that 9 by19

430
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,559
and and also maintain the required 24

431
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:13,919
foot dry vial but we recommend to have

432
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:15,600
it as a condition of approval for this

433
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,160
site plan.

434
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,600
Uh finally in the development agreement

435
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,480
or sorry two more things the or sorry

436
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,960
the there is a monument side needed for

437
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,559
the whole development uh that is the the

438
00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:31,760
development agreement specifies that

439
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,400
needs its own permit. So, we want to and

440
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,280
it's shown to be on the same lot as the

441
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,480
commercial building. So, we recommend

442
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,919
that it's a condition of approval that

443
00:19:41,919 --> 00:19:50,000
it receives its own uh application and the DA does say it

444
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,200
needs to come before planning

445
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,880
commission.

446
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,039
The other two are building lights. We

447
00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:56,720
recommend that be reviewed at the time

448
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,520
of the building permit to ensure they

449
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:00,799
meet the development agreement and our

450
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:04,480
city code in regards to to directional

451
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,480
and flood lights and all those

452
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,120
standards. And then the last is the

453
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,679
development agreement was specific that

454
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:15,280
the commercial new use needs a bike rack

455
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,039
on

456
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:19,600
um I believe on Washington Boulevard

457
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,720
side and that was lacking. Uh they

458
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,679
they're they do show improvements to a

459
00:20:25,679 --> 00:20:29,520
bus stop that include a bike rack, but

460
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,679
to meet the DA, we recommend that an

461
00:20:31,679 --> 00:20:33,679
additional one be provided at the

462
00:20:33,679 --> 00:20:35,440
building.

463
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,470
Um

464
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,960
yes, those so that that those are they

465
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,200
meet the majority. Those are the few

466
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,200
conditionals of approval recommend.

467
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,840
Otherwise, staff does recommend approval

468
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,840
of this and uh recommends the planning

469
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,720
commission discuss and I'm happy to help

470
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,960
answer any questions

471
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,440
um any questions you have. Thanks.

472
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,440
>> So, is there any businesses that would

473
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,919
go in that would increase

474
00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:10,000
the need for additional parking spots?

475
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,559
So that that's the intent of of getting

476
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:14,880
the shared parking agreement is if there

477
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,200
is a use that based on our parking code

478
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,320
would need more parking stalls,

479
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,000
they're able to use the neighboring

480
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,640
parking and the like the guest parking

481
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,720
for the residential side as part of the

482
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,320
commercial use where they are they just

483
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,600
don't have the space to have more

484
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,360
parking.

485
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,120
But if the but if they're like late

486
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,919
night businesses that would impede on

487
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:41,919
parking for the residents of the

488
00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:44,240
housing, right?

489
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,559
So the development agreement specified

490
00:21:46,559 --> 00:21:48,240
how many parking stalls the whole

491
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,080
development needs and so so that's just

492
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,559
kind of the constraint is as long as

493
00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:58,480
they provide that many

494
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,880
they're meeting the DA right what that

495
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,760
requirement even if there's a use that

496
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,440
maybe requires more so it's we're asking

497
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,440
to we're recommended to do the develop

498
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,000
the shared parking agreement so any

499
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,960
future uses is they are aware that um

500
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,440
that's an issue with the property and

501
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,280
that but they have that I guess

502
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,919
um they have that option or they have

503
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:27,919
that

504
00:22:27,919 --> 00:22:30,480
>> trying to think of the words remedy to

505
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,240
with the parking issue and and there is

506
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,559
>> they're right next to 1500 North which

507
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,200
would allow for on street parking there

508
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,799
>> but they just would not meet the off-

509
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:41,919
streetet parking

510
00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:44,240
>> so The residential buildings, are they

511
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,159
already approved?

512
00:22:46,159 --> 00:22:49,440
>> Uh, no. We have

513
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,240
>> we do have a few

514
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,080
going through building permit currently.

515
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,559
>> Are they going to be sell or lease?

516
00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:57,919
They're going to be lease.

517
00:22:57,919 --> 00:22:58,960
>> I don't know.

518
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,840
>> Yeah.

519
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,240
>> U, but that I believe if I'm correct,

520
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,760
the shared parking agreement is within

521
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,080
the developer. It's the same developer,

522
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:12,559
right?

523
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:12,880
>> Yes.

524
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,039
>> So, he's sort of agreeing

525
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:19,280
>> to build the parking spaces later when

526
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,520
>> whatever buildings go up go up.

527
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,240
>> Exactly.

528
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,120
>> Okay.

529
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,559
>> And then if a more intense use comes in,

530
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:29,360
like a tenant improvement that pushes

531
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,400
the parking demand beyond that allotted,

532
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,039
that gets addressed later in a in a

533
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:36,880
building permit. Does that make a tenant

534
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,720
improvement building permit?

535
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,400
>> Does that make sense?

536
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,640
Okay.

537
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,039
The uh the development agreement

538
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:48,320
requires 304 parking stalls in total.

539
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,799
Correct. For the commercial and

540
00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,280
residential use.

541
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,880
>> That that's what's in the staff report.

542
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:01,600
>> Yeah, I think that it was Yes. There was a number I think just for

543
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,640
residential and then but then there

544
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,480
there's language that states they

545
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,440
>> Oh, I see. It is 304 for residential and

546
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,760
then additional for the commercial

547
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,200
>> and that they should be um shared

548
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,470
essentially

549
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,720
» and the commercial is short two spots,

550
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,400
right? It's supposed to be 19 for the

551
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,039
square footage.

552
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:28,720
>> Yeah, just looking at it as what it is potentially just office space. It is

553
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,000
short the

554
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,080
>> depending what goes in the office space,

555
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,240
>> right?

556
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,000
Ryan, I had a question regarding uh

557
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,520
future uses in this commercial. Uh what

558
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,640
if a food service wants to go in there?

559
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:52,400
Um is there room to provide for grease

560
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,120
traps and things like that?

561
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,200
the utilities if they

562
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,640
>> I would say based on the these these uh

563
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,240
concerns with parking that might

564
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,960
prohibit that type of use and so they

565
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,159
would not move in. Um, I know you can

566
00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:10,320
install grease traps later as part of a

567
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,520
tenant improvement, but speaking with

568
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,120
the developer, they recognize that the de the development agreement and

569
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,520
these kind of constraints will really

570
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,559
filter who who will want to move in and

571
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,880
occupy these these uh this building. Uh

572
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,200
I I tend to recall as this was going be

573
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,440
for the planning commission earlier

574
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,360
under Coopertown

575
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:39,679
that that commercial building possibly

576
00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:42,320
had a second story

577
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,720
or was it always a single story?

578
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,120
>> Um it just had a height limit

579
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:47,760
>> a height.

580
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,799
>> And so I think uh this is just it had a

581
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:52,880
height and then the building materials.

582
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,000
I don't um

583
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,919
I don't recall the development agreement

584
00:25:57,919 --> 00:25:59,760
having an exhibit of the commercial,

585
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,080
>> but this is consistent with what was

586
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,279
originally proposed.

587
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:05,039
>> Correct. Yeah, they're under that that

588
00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:08,320
height limit and they're um they have

589
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,000
the the needed materials as that was

590
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,440
specified in the development agreement.

591
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,520
And in front of this uh on Washington

592
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,679
Boulevard, they'll be with the

593
00:26:19,679 --> 00:26:22,480
commercial installing the required

594
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840
street lighting and street trees and

595
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,000
those required improvements, the wider

596
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,840
sidewalk.

597
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,559
>> Yes. Yeah. So, I know I think our 10

598
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:33,840
foot sidewalk's already in.

599
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,240
>> Okay.

600
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,480
>> And then they

601
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,000
um I don't know if I included the land

602
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,919
they do have a landscape plan that that

603
00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:46,070
is meeting what was approved. Okay,

604
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,279
» thank you.

605
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:49,279
>> Right, there's no more questions for

606
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:57,669
Ryan. Let's discuss.

607
00:26:57,679 --> 00:26:59,120
» I mean,

608
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:00,880
>> I have I have concerns about the parking

609
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,919
with that many people already. Um, and

610
00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:05,279
depending on what goes in that

611
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:07,760
commercial building,

612
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,120
uh, will make residents unhappy if they

613
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,600
can't find parking because

614
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,960
businesses in there are taking up spots

615
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,640
that could potentially be theirs.

616
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Um,

617
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,760
I guess I wouldn't have a problem

618
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,440
because during the daytime most people

619
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,440
are at work. So if there's businesses,

620
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,200
they're day businesses, but those that

621
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,919
go after, let's say, 5:00

622
00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:35,440
have the potential to impede on

623
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,200
parking stalls for people that are

624
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,279
living there. And I think that

625
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,520
>> plays a part in how they feel about

626
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,960
living there. And so I guess that's my

627
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,960
concern. Um cuz it looks looking at the

628
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,720
plans it looks like a large project like a it looks like a

629
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,880
lot of people are going to live there.

630
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:03,279
>> It's hard to to discuss specific

631
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:04,799
commercial

632
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,200
uh projects that are going in there when

633
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,200
we're just talking general

634
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,440
>> commercial issues.

635
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:18,960
But I would think that the size of the offices would sort of dictate the

636
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,720
type of business that goes into that

637
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,080
office

638
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,960
>> and therefore would dictate the parking.

639
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,200
And

640
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,360
I would think that if if the parking

641
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:33,600
in general, like when it's all done, if

642
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,440
the parking meets the requirements as an

643
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,240
entire entity,

644
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,360
then we're two stalls short on the first

645
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,679
part. You know what I'm saying?

646
00:28:45,679 --> 00:28:47,440
Challenge me, please. Like I'm I'm

647
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,600
really trying to piece this together in

648
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,200
my brain because I think that when it's

649
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,480
all said and done, they'll meet the

650
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,480
parking requirements and there will

651
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,880
probably be some like, you know, people

652
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,320
parking on top of each other maybe

653
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,480
during the day or whatever, you know,

654
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,799
saying, "Hey, this is, you know, whose

655
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:08,720
space is this really?" But once it's in,

656
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,760
that should be alleviated possibly.

657
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,840
>> Yeah. I would I'm not sure. No,

658
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,919
>> as long as I mean I don't I don't like

659
00:29:15,919 --> 00:29:17,360
to see more hard service. I'm not

660
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,880
looking to add more hard service where

661
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,679
we don't need it. Um

662
00:29:21,679 --> 00:29:23,360
if there are guest spots in that

663
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:24,799
apartment complex that they're going to

664
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:27,200
designate that can be guested for the

665
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,279
commercial and guests for the apartments

666
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:31,600
that would then meet meet the

667
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,600
requirement for both. I think I'd be

668
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,039
okay with it. I mean it is two spots. I

669
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:38,240
see the concern though. I mean, if it's

670
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,679
an office building and you have a bunch

671
00:29:39,679 --> 00:29:42,159
of employees that are coming in and then

672
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:45,200
they use all 17 spots, you have nowhere

673
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,039
for business patrons to come in.

674
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:51,360
Is there Ryan, can I still ask you a

675
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:52,320
question?

676
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,960
>> Is there is there enough parking on the

677
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,640
street that kind of offset that

678
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,960
>> that you're aware of to like talk about

679
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,360
that? based on the calculation, they're

680
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,440
just two stalls short and so that can

681
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:08,799
based on the development agreement

682
00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:11,200
saying stalls should be shared between

683
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,720
uses.

684
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:13,440
Um,

685
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,960
>> but if they decide to park on the

686
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,559
street, is there anything to prevent

687
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:20,720
customers from parking on the street?

688
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,559
>> No. No.

689
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:24,399
>> So, there's enough there's enough room

690
00:30:24,399 --> 00:30:27,200
on the side of those streets to handle

691
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,960
people parking and driving.

692
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360
>> Yeah. 1,500. And I think technically

693
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,279
even Washington

694
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:38,240
you could you could park not in the bus not in front of the bus stop but

695
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,080
those are both public roads and and

696
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,159
would allow off or on street parking

697
00:30:44,159 --> 00:30:47,520
um to to alleviate the the specific

698
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,799
commercial lot shortage. But um it's

699
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:51,840
difficult because the development

700
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,320
agreement kind of recognizes it and then

701
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,960
just states that they'll they'll be

702
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,039
shared between the uses. Yeah.

703
00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:03,679
>> Does the on street parking consideration

704
00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:05,919
include wintertime when we have no on

705
00:31:05,919 --> 00:31:08,880
street parking ordinances in the city? I

706
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,960
I'm thinking of another business that's

707
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,880
on Washington a little bit north of this that uses a lot of on street

708
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,760
parking and has come before city council

709
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,960
to ask for variances on that parking

710
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,000
because they can't in the wintertime. um

711
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,080
they've been granted variances to allow

712
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,320
parking where you ordinarily wouldn't in

713
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,200
the winter. So, how does that play into

714
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,080
this?

715
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,559
>> Yeah, those those uh wintertime parking

716
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:42,240
restrictions would apply here as well.

717
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,840
Um that's why really we recommend the

718
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,200
developer even though it's right now

719
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,679
it's with themselves establish that

720
00:31:49,679 --> 00:31:52,159
shared parking agreement so whatever use

721
00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:54,640
goes in there is aware

722
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,519
that there's short parking but there is

723
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:01,840
ways to to alleviate it to that there

724
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,360
are these additional parking stalls in

725
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,679
the residential guest parking or

726
00:32:05,679 --> 00:32:09,269
wherever it is.

727
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:10,320
The other thing we don't have for

728
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,240
tonight is the sign design. That's part

729
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,039
of this. Correct. So without that I I

730
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:16,240
mean I think it'd be hard to approve it

731
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:17,519
anyways, right? If we don't know what

732
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:19,600
the sign if it doesn't

733
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,000
>> the the monument sign is for the whole

734
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,399
>> right

735
00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:25,679
>> residential and commercial and would

736
00:32:25,679 --> 00:32:27,440
need to be its own permit.

737
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,200
>> Okay. So it's a separate permit. Okay. I

738
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,480
thought it was falling under the same

739
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,200
one.

740
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,200
>> It is its own permit. And then the de

741
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,720
the development agreement says that

742
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,640
permit which usually is just staff

743
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,000
approval

744
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,919
>> does also go to planning commission.

745
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:40,880
>> Thank thank you for

746
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,840
>> but that sign is on this property. It is

747
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,039
on this plot.

748
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:46,720
>> They're showing on the site plan that it

749
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,039
would be on the corner of 1500 in

750
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:49,760
Washington.

751
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,120
>> Oh, I see it. Thank you.

752
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,519
>> Yeah.

753
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:57,600
>> Does does anyone have concerns about

754
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,080
uh building materials? It sounds like

755
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,679
they're going all with

756
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:02,720
>> Yeah. Looks great.

757
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:03,360
>> I like that.

758
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,240
>> I liked it.

759
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,080
>> I'm okay with that.

760
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,760
>> Yeah, I thought I thought the design of

761
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,230
the building looked really good.

762
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,840
» Back to the parking for a moment. You

763
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,880
mentioned earlier that the the parking

764
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,600
spots that they have marked out on the

765
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,000
site plan are 9 by8 ft, not the required

766
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,600
9 by19.

767
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,320
>> It was eight or yeah, 9 by 18. Correct.

768
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,279
>> 9 by 18. So correcting that to the 9

769
00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:34,159
by19 which is one of the conditions that

770
00:33:34,159 --> 00:33:38,080
is recommended. Uh how will that affect

771
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,080
spacing?

772
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,960
It sounds like they did 9 by 18 because

773
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,360
that's what space allowed.

774
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,200
Is that going to reduce the number of

775
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,360
parking spaces? Is it going to

776
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,720
negatively affect or impact?

777
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,840
>> No. I um

778
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,039
speaking with the developer they were uh

779
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:01,919
they missed that requirement and so they

780
00:34:01,919 --> 00:34:03,919
were they were they understood they

781
00:34:03,919 --> 00:34:04,640
needed to fix it.

782
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,240
>> So the space is there.

783
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,119
>> They have the space they just needed to fix it.

784
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:11,760
>> Yeah. And by 19 more odd than 19,

785
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:23,349
>> right?

786
00:34:23,359 --> 00:34:25,440
1500 North.

787
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,000
Um, how much of that will be developed

788
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,359
with this?

789
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:29,919
>> It's all done.

790
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:31,679
>> It's done, right? Okay.

791
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,040
>> They built the whole thing. Yeah.

792
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,240
>> I just wanted to make sure.

793
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:35,839
>> There's no dumb questions.

794
00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:38,639
>> Yeah. No, that one was dumb. Coke hasn't

795
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:46,869
kicked in yet.

796
00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:49,119
And chair, just one thing on that. The

797
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:51,200
property that's south of 1500 was

798
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,040
originally contemplated in the

799
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,839
development agreement back in 2021 with

800
00:34:55,839 --> 00:34:57,839
a negotiation between Ogden City and

801
00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:00,240
North Ogden City to align the boundary

802
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:02,160
on the southern side of this project and

803
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,119
that failed. And so right now there's a

804
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:08,079
strip of land in Ogden and then 1500

805
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:10,000
north and then north Ogden. So, the

806
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,760
development agreement was amended in

807
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,440
2023 to reduce the parking number,

808
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,440
reduce the total number of residential

809
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,240
units to just those on the northern

810
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:24,640
portion of 1500 North. And that slightly

811
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,640
amends the DA, but this building C is

812
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,680
required to come up out of the ground as

813
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,520
part of phase one, which includes the

814
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,920
residential units. So, it's a

815
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,320
requirement for the developer and the

816
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,160
development agreement through city

817
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,440
council in 2021 approved the site plan

818
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,440
of the commercial buildings. So, those

819
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:46,800
have already been issued building

820
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,560
permits and they're coming up out of the

821
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,240
ground. There's footing in foundations

822
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,640
right now, but they won't be able to

823
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,800
receive certificate of occupancy until

824
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,119
the commercial building is constructed.

825
00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:59,760
So, this is the next step. And then the

826
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,320
development agreement also states that

827
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,480
the landscaping plan will come back to

828
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,839
planning commission. So establishing the

829
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:09,920
commercial building, the remainder of

830
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,079
the parking, making sure that they hit

831
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:14,800
their 20% landscape requirement per the

832
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,119
DA, there's one more set of plans

833
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:19,440
that'll come to you. And we sort of

834
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,839
wanted to put the monument sign and the

835
00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:24,000
landscaping plan together. So you get

836
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,079
all of the functional structures come up

837
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:28,079
out of the ground together. And then

838
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:29,280
planning commission would have an

839
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,160
opportunity to review the landscaping

840
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,880
plan content of that sidewalk,

841
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,839
streetscape and monument sign all

842
00:36:37,839 --> 00:36:40,160
together as one package is the way we

843
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,720
discussed it with the developer.

844
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:44,800
That was our recommendation.

845
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,359
So this can be there's nothing in the DA

846
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:50,640
that says all of it has to be approved.

847
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,240
It's just planning commission has to

848
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:57,280
approve these individual components. Um,

849
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,280
and so we presented to you tonight the

850
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,680
commercial portion so that the developer

851
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,520
continue moving can continue moving

852
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,079
forward with the project and building

853
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:10,710
their apartments.

854
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:13,520
Can Can you pull up page 21 real quick

855
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,950
just so I can make sure

856
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,630
it's uh

857
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,000
I think it's further down that

858
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,240
>> so I just have the site plan documents

859
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,839
what 21 it's the oneeneral it has the o

860
00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:39,510
overlay of the whole property

861
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,280
Yeah, one more page. Let's go to the

862
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,280
next page.

863
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,440
Is this on building A? Are those covered

864
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,440
spots that are directly behind the

865
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,800
commercial? Was that what that's

866
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:51,599
supposed to be?

867
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:53,119
>> That X above it.

868
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:54,000
>> Yes.

869
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,760
>> Where 11 and five are. Those are covered

870
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,520
spots, right? So the garage garage or

871
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,920
>> so just so the others can see that

872
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,560
the extra spots are going to be caddy

873
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,480
corner to

874
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,640
um where the commercial building is

875
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,400
since we were talking about parking.

876
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,480
>> Yeah,

877
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,079
>> they won't be directly behind them.

878
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:17,839
you're going to have to

879
00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:20,320
>> so where John's cursors are, that's

880
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,040
actually garages and then to the north

881
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,640
is

882
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,320
covered spaces there along the north

883
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,119
side. And typically those are leased as

884
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:31,440
part of the apartment.

885
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,040
You know, we don't I don't know. I'm not

886
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,720
the apartment manager, right? But those

887
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,640
spaces are leased as part of the unit

888
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,880
that you lease would be a covered space.

889
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,359
So it' be where the word phase 2 is east

890
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:43,839
of building B and then you have the

891
00:38:43,839 --> 00:38:46,079
whole parking lot adjacent to the top

892
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:48,640
lot in the center. There would be some

893
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,280
amount of shared parking between them.

894
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,040
And even most of our office uses if you

895
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,200
go up and down whether it's dental

896
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,599
offices or insurance offices, title

897
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,119
offices, there are it's parking is not

898
00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:05,280
maximized in most of those areas. We're

899
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,920
generally overparked I would say in most

900
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,000
of our areas. So, while there's two

901
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,800
spaces that we think of when we go

902
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,480
general office that are missing, I think

903
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,000
that it's reasonable to assume there

904
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,560
will be some some sharing of parking,

905
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,320
but that's self-limiting and the

906
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,320
developer understands that that the uses

907
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,599
would be reviewed at the time of

908
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:26,320
business license and if there isn't

909
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,320
enough parking, they have to produce

910
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,720
shared parking, dedicated parking, or

911
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,520
that business license fails.

912
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,520
>> Yeah, not a concern for Yeah, I just

913
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:36,720
like I said, I wanted to bring it up

914
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:38,240
because just to make sure others didn't

915
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,680
think it was directly behind,

916
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,119
>> right? The shared

917
00:39:41,119 --> 00:39:42,960
>> the shared will be a little bit away

918
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,320
from the commercial area.

919
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,270
>> Yep.

920
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,870
» Okay.

921
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,520
» I would entertain a motion if we're

922
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:07,910
done.

923
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,240
I would also stab at that motion if

924
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:14,000
you'd like. Um, a motion to approve the

925
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,000
site plan for Coopertown commercial

926
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,599
building uh as a consideration or excuse

927
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:21,839
me on condition of approval that we

928
00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:24,720
lengthen those stalls to 19 ft. We see

929
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,000
the monument on its own application

930
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,400
um and the landscape plan. the monument

931
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,839
and landscape plan on its own

932
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:34,079
application. Uh, and we see building

933
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:38,079
lights and and bike rack.

934
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:43,589
>> I'll second that.

935
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:45,280
» Okay.

936
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,599
So, I motion to approve it. Commissioner

937
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:49,760
Settlemire seconded the motion. Let's

938
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,599
have a roll call vote. Commissioner

939
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:52,640
Bailey,

940
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:53,440
>> yes.

941
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,800
>> Commissioner Gardner,

942
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,359
>> yes.

943
00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:56,800
>> Commissioner Settlemire,

944
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,319
>> yes.

945
00:40:58,319 --> 00:40:59,520
Commissioner Swanson,

946
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:00,319
>> yes.

947
00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:02,800
>> And Commissioner Jorgensson,

948
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,359
>> yes.

949
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:09,109
>> And I'm a yes as well. That passes.

950
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:12,720
Let's move to item number six.

951
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:17,040
Zoning map amendment 2026-6

952
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,960
2742 North, 400 East. reszone property

953
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,760
from residential city center RCC to

954
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,520
small lot residential zone R15

955
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,880
as a fill-in project. Uh this will be a

956
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,000
public hearing. Uh we'll have a

957
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,240
recommendation by Scott Hes, community

958
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,319
and economic development director.

959
00:41:38,319 --> 00:41:40,319
>> Thank you, chair. So we have an

960
00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:42,640
application by John W. Hansen for a

961
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,240
reszone of this 1.22 acre property. It

962
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,280
has two existing homes on the west side

963
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,960
near Washington Boulevard that have

964
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,000
frontage there. Um they're perceived to

965
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,760
be on their own individual lots. They're

966
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,839
just two standalone single family homes,

967
00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:00,400
but they have forever been on one single

968
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,280
property. Um there's been several

969
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,720
conversations with the property owner

970
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:06,640
and the developer about what to do with

971
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,040
those homes, assumptions about traffic

972
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,520
circulation in the area and zoning

973
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,079
densities generally. And the application

974
00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:17,599
was made for a small lot residential R15

975
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:19,839
reszone that would run on a private

976
00:42:19,839 --> 00:42:22,800
drive on the south. So your net increase

977
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,720
in units as proposed would be five units

978
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:29,599
tucked into that space between the

979
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,400
property lines north to south. Um there

980
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,079
is not currently an extension of 2700

981
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:38,480
contemplated to go west and connect to

982
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,640
Washington Boulevard.

983
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,040
And this is an interesting one. when you

984
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,800
look at the general plan guidelines, the

985
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,800
surrounding properties and what to do

986
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,040
with zoning. So, this particular

987
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,640
property is functionally adjacent to uh

988
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,880
several civic and commercial uses both

989
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,520
north and south on Washington Boulevard.

990
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,839
The property west across Washington

991
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:01,760
Boulevard is currently zoned residential

992
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,560
R4 um multifamily even though the

993
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,920
majority of it is used as office space.

994
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,560
You have residential city center which

995
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,359
is a makeup of apartments, old

996
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:15,119
historical agricultural properties,

997
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:17,760
small lot single family duplexes. It's a

998
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,960
really wide variety of uses. Um, and

999
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,440
then the general plan in this area,

1000
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,560
which is the uh downtown neighborhood,

1001
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,440
states in one of its goals under

1002
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,680
encouraging multifamily in the downtown

1003
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,160
area and for areas to the west along

1004
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,079
2700 North to show higher densities on

1005
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:40,240
the future land use map to the west

1006
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,760
along 2700 North. So, as this is an

1007
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,319
infill property, as it's single family

1008
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:49,040
residential, it would meet the concept

1009
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,720
plan as designed meets the requirements

1010
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:53,440
of the residential R15. if the fire

1011
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:54,960
department and the city engineer will

1012
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,000
sign off on the private drive. Um

1013
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:03,680
staff's recommendation is that this be found largely in compliance with

1014
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,160
the general plan in conformance with the

1015
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,960
neighborhood and our recommendation is

1016
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,640
to recommend approval to the city

1017
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,119
council to reszone the property to

1018
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:16,160
residential R15. It's a public hearing.

1019
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,760
It's been noticed as a public hearing

1020
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,880
with mailers that have gone out. Um, so

1021
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,640
that'd be part of the process. And then

1022
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,119
planning commission, you we also have

1023
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:27,520
the applicant John Hansen here to

1024
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,440
represent the project as well and happy

1025
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,870
to answer any questions.

1026
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,680
for Scott? Nope. Yes.

1027
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:47,270
Okay. No questions. Um

1028
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,599
let's uh go ahead and open the public

1029
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,800
hearing. Uh invite the applicant to come

1030
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,960
up and uh and then uh and then we'll

1031
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,440
have comments. Applicant first and then

1032
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,440
comments. And chair, just one thing

1033
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:02,960
really quickly is that

1034
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,359
>> while reszone applications often come

1035
00:45:05,359 --> 00:45:07,359
with a concept plan,

1036
00:45:07,359 --> 00:45:08,800
>> the planning commission's function

1037
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,440
tonight is to apply a land use zone to

1038
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,359
the property. So concept plans are

1039
00:45:13,359 --> 00:45:15,440
helpful to look at, but it wouldn't be

1040
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,839
approving this particular plan. This is

1041
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:20,720
one layout based on the property if it

1042
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,119
were to be reszoned as R15. So just to

1043
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:25,119
wish to make sure that you know we're

1044
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:27,440
not approving a subdivision or approving

1045
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,680
the concept plan. It's just applying a

1046
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:30,319
land use code.

1047
00:45:30,319 --> 00:45:31,760
>> So these lots could be different.

1048
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,599
>> The lots, the layout, all of it could be

1049
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,040
different dependent on

1050
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:36,400
>> and would that come back to here or

1051
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:37,599
would that Okay.

1052
00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:38,560
>> Yeah.

1053
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,030
>> Yep.

1054
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:53,750
» Uh applicant, would you like to come up?

1055
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,520
I'm John Hansen from 1165 West 4000

1056
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,960
North in Pleasant View. I'm representing

1057
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,440
Doug Young who has bought this property

1058
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,640
from the Shubes, a longtime name in

1059
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,400
North Ogden.

1060
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,319
Uh Scott, will you put that

1061
00:46:12,319 --> 00:46:14,160
>> picture?

1062
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,000
U

1063
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,240
what this Mr. Young would like to do is

1064
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:22,240
build single family homes there.

1065
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:25,119
And uh the frontage I believe is between

1066
00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:28,800
48 and 60 ft frontage.

1067
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,880
The homes would be approximately 2500

1068
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,640
square ft on two levels.

1069
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,560
Uh I don't know what else to tell you.

1070
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,280
The the drawings of them are terrific.

1071
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:42,640
It would really enhance that

1072
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,839
neighborhood. Our problem has been to

1073
00:46:45,839 --> 00:46:48,640
Washington Boulevard and Scott's pointed

1074
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,119
out that it's better just to deadend it

1075
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:54,560
and not compleimement or what's the word

1076
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,839
I want? Uh

1077
00:46:57,839 --> 00:47:00,079
compromise the

1078
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:01,920
Washington Boulevard and all the traffic

1079
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,160
that goes there.

1080
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,520
So we thought about putting that on the

1081
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,160
north end close to 2700.

1082
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,720
Our engineers here, Mr. split. He

1083
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:17,280
There's a 7ft slope from north to south

1084
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,119
and it makes more sense to have the

1085
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:22,079
retention basin down on the southwest

1086
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:24,079
corner.

1087
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:26,160
So, one of our questions, you know, we'd

1088
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,760
like to see if you'd reszone that to the

1089
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,720
5,000 square foot lots is what to do

1090
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:36,640
with lot one. That home is uninhabitable

1091
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,000
basically. I have not been in it, but

1092
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,400
I've been told by the manager that they

1093
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,040
won't even lease it. So, we're trying to

1094
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,319
decide whether they're going to raise

1095
00:47:46,319 --> 00:47:49,359
that or maybe get another new building

1096
00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:51,760
there. I'm not sure.

1097
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,200
So, I don't know if you have any

1098
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,920
questions. Uh, it's pretty

1099
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,119
straightforward there. There's one home

1100
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:01,599
on 27

1101
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:06,560
on 450 East that faces west.

1102
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,720
Uh that's the only home that would even

1103
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:11,520
be close to it. Along the other south

1104
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,720
bound is the Baptist Church and Fields.

1105
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:17,440
And then there's another home north of

1106
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:24,400
lot one that uh faces 450 East also.

1107
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,119
So we hope that you'd consider that. We

1108
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:29,599
need some smaller homes for some

1109
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,160
families to come in there. And I think

1110
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,760
that's what your city uh city center

1111
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,319
ordinance says. They'd like to, you

1112
00:48:38,319 --> 00:48:41,440
know, maintain the city a city feel in

1113
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,880
there. Any questions?

1114
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,240
>> Now talk loud. Lauren

1115
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:49,119
>> John, would you you be building the

1116
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:49,920
buildings?

1117
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:50,559
>> What's that?

1118
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:52,559
>> Would you be building the buildings?

1119
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:54,480
>> I will not be building them. No, but I

1120
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,040
will be over the construction. There's

1121
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,280
several builders that would like to

1122
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,240
build those buildings.

1123
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,119
>> Okay. And they're going to be for sale

1124
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:05,119
or owner occupied.

1125
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:06,480
>> Yes. Not rentals.

1126
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:07,359
>> Okay.

1127
00:49:07,359 --> 00:49:11,829
>> Owner occupied.

1128
00:49:11,839 --> 00:49:18,230
This is really embarrassing for me.

1129
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:22,160
» Any other questions for the applicant?

1130
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,280
Hi, John. Thank you.

1131
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,870
>> Thank you.

1132
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:36,390
» Any other comments?

1133
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:37,920
Good evening, commission. My name is

1134
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,160
Trevor Davis. I'm a resident here in

1135
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,680
North Ogden. Um, I'm not here to debate

1136
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,400
the city's growth, but to formally place

1137
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,400
my existing property rights into the

1138
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,119
legislative record. My property operates

1139
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:53,200
under current agricultural allowances,

1140
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,440
and I own and keep horses on this land.

1141
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,000
I want it explicitly clear for the

1142
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,680
record that my right to maintain

1143
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,040
livestock is a legally protected vested

1144
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,680
non-conforming use. Regardless of what

1145
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,040
happens to the neighboring parcel

1146
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,599
tonight, my agricultural rights are

1147
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:12,720
grandfathered in under Utah law. Because

1148
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:15,200
this reszone introduces highdensity

1149
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,599
residential lots directly against my

1150
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:21,839
fence, the city is actively creating a

1151
00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:24,240
future land use conflict. To mitigate

1152
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,960
this, Utah's right to farm laws are very

1153
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,440
clear. Non-residentidential encroachment

1154
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,680
cannot declare a pre-existing

1155
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,559
agricultural operation a nuisance due to

1156
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:37,280
standard dust, odor, or noise.

1157
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,280
Therefore, if the commission chooses to

1158
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,240
approve the reszone tonight, I ask that

1159
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:44,319
you protect both myself and the city

1160
00:50:44,319 --> 00:50:46,880
from future litigation by attaching

1161
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,720
three mandatory conditions to the

1162
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:50,720
development agreement. First, the

1163
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:52,960
developer must be required to place a

1164
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,119
good neighbor disclosure or deed

1165
00:50:55,119 --> 00:50:57,680
restriction on every single lot, plat,

1166
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,920
and HOA closing document legally

1167
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,000
notifying incoming buyers that they are

1168
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,319
moving next to an active livestock

1169
00:51:04,319 --> 00:51:07,839
property and wave their right to file

1170
00:51:07,839 --> 00:51:10,640
city nuisance complaints. Second, the

1171
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,480
financial burden of buffering this

1172
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,880
impact belongs to the developer. I

1173
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,880
request a mandatory condition requiring

1174
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,400
the developer to install a

1175
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,440
commercial-grade 6-foot privacy fence or

1176
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,079
an engineered landscape buffer on their

1177
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:26,160
side of the property line before any

1178
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,040
construction begins. Third, because of

1179
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,520
my current corral layout requires me to

1180
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,640
utilize a manure staging area near the

1181
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,200
fence line for daily barn maintenance

1182
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,920
and introduction or the introduction of

1183
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,000
small residential lots will create an

1184
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,440
immediate setback conflict. This is an

1185
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,920
active operational staging area where

1186
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,680
waste is collected and hauled off

1187
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,160
appropriately. Because North Ogden code

1188
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,960
requires a 75- ft buffer between animal

1189
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,440
struct or animal structures and adjacent

1190
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,680
dwellings, I request that developer be

1191
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,559
required to design a non-buildable

1192
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:04,960
common area or extended property setback

1193
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,200
on their side of the line to mirror this

1194
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,520
buffer. I am voicing these concerns

1195
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,280
tonight so they are part of the

1196
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,359
permanent record. If North Ogden City

1197
00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:15,599
creates a conflict by changing the zone,

1198
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:17,359
the city must protect its historic

1199
00:52:17,359 --> 00:52:19,520
property owners from frivolous code

1200
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,480
enforcement when the new residents move

1201
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:30,950
in. Thank you for your time.

1202
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,800
Um,

1203
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,240
I was wondering if you could put that

1204
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:37,359
picture back up of where the the homes

1205
00:52:37,359 --> 00:52:38,079
would be.

1206
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:39,839
>> Would you state your name and address?

1207
00:52:39,839 --> 00:52:43,359
>> Yes, of course. Um, my name is Jessica

1208
00:52:43,359 --> 00:52:45,760
Howick Davis and I own the property

1209
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,079
directly adjacent to the parcel under

1210
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:51,599
review at 27,

1211
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:55,920
sorry, 40 north, 400 450 East. So,

1212
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,440
basically,

1213
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,520
lot

1214
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,680
3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 um are right next to

1215
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,079
my property line. Um,

1216
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:10,000
okay.

1217
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,800
And thank you for pulling that up. So,

1218
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,040
my family and I have lived in this North

1219
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,440
Ogden and Pleasant View area for over 40

1220
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,079
years. Growing up here, my family had

1221
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,200
horses and we experienced this exact

1222
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,079
scenario firsthand when development

1223
00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:28,800
began pressing in. I have seen the real

1224
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,800
world problems, the safety hazards, and

1225
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,280
the friction it causes when high density

1226
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,920
residential lots are forced

1227
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,000
right against established livestock

1228
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,319
lines.

1229
00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:43,119
Beyond being a longtime resident, I'm

1230
00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:44,880
also a sixth grade teacher here in our

1231
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,160
community. and

1232
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,240
um I teach my students that their voices

1233
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:53,440
matter and that they need to believe

1234
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,280
that they can make a difference. So

1235
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,440
standing at this microphone tonight is

1236
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,559
me practicing exactly what I preach. I

1237
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:02,480
couldn't look at my students in the eye

1238
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,400
next year if I didn't step up tonight to

1239
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,640
abdicate for the safety of the

1240
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,880
neighborhood and protection of the local

1241
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:14,069
agricultural roots that we have.

1242
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:17,359
Okay. Sorry, I'm really nervous.

1243
00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:19,839
>> Um, I'm here tonight to vote my strong

1244
00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:22,640
opposition to reszoning it. Our

1245
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,240
immediate neighborhood is anchored by

1246
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:27,440
the historic scale and architectural

1247
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,520
breathing room of the residential city

1248
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,680
center zone, shifting this specific

1249
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,960
parcel to an R-15 small lot residential

1250
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,480
zone represents a completely

1251
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,800
incompatible highdensity island that

1252
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,200
disrupts the establishment fabric of our

1253
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,839
community. But my opposition isn't just

1254
00:54:45,839 --> 00:54:47,440
about the neighborhood character, but it

1255
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:48,960
is a matter of immediate safety,

1256
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,760
liability, and the land use conflict. My

1257
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,000
active livestock fence runs directly

1258
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,319
along the property line of these,

1259
00:54:56,319 --> 00:54:58,640
especially my horses are right where

1260
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,079
four, five, and six are like they they

1261
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:05,359
lean on that fence.

1262
00:55:05,359 --> 00:55:08,240
Um

1263
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:11,680
Okay. Um, I run a legally permitted

1264
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:13,760
agriculture operation with horses,

1265
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,079
possible future cows, chickens, and

1266
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:18,400
dogs. Keeping livestock inherently

1267
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,040
involves dust, noise, and odors. The

1268
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,040
current zoning provides larger setback

1269
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,440
requirements that act as a vital buffer

1270
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,200
between my animals and neighboring

1271
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,119
homes. By packing tightly squeezed, high

1272
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:33,280
density micro lots right against my

1273
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,280
fence line, you are actively creating a

1274
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,680
dangerous situation. When you put

1275
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,680
suburban backyards directly against a

1276
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,760
livestock fence, people who do not

1277
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,359
understand

1278
00:55:43,359 --> 00:55:45,920
agriculture move in. And this creates an

1279
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,160
immediate danger to children, domestic

1280
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,960
pets, and my own animals. And again, I

1281
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,480
do speak from experience when this

1282
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,079
happened to me and my family in Pleasant

1283
00:55:54,079 --> 00:55:55,680
View.

1284
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,520
Too often, suburban neighbors treat

1285
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,599
horse fences like a petting zoo. They

1286
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:01,280
think they can feed my horses whatever

1287
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,000
they want, which causes fatal collic. or

1288
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:05,839
worse, kids throw rocks and debris over

1289
00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:07,440
the fence to get the animals to move,

1290
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,520
which puts my horses and cows or other

1291
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,760
animals at risk of severe injury.

1292
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,839
Controversy, a curious child or a loose

1293
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:16,160
domestic dog getting too close to a

1294
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,160
spooked horse or cow creates massive

1295
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,480
physical safety hazard and severe

1296
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,359
liability trap. North A density code

1297
00:56:23,359 --> 00:56:25,440
requires strict separation setbacks

1298
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,280
between dwellings and animal pens to

1299
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,160
minimize these exact impacts. Forcing a

1300
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,920
high density zone into this boundary

1301
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,559
line completely ignores that intent. It

1302
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:36,720
forces a land use conflict where my

1303
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:38,799
established farm operations will face

1304
00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:42,000
ineedible ongoing nuisance complaints

1305
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,680
from new residents who shouldn't have

1306
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,680
been built that close to an active fence

1307
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,480
line in the first place.

1308
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,400
And just also coming really from a

1309
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,599
personal experience with this that I've

1310
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:55,119
had.

1311
00:56:55,119 --> 00:56:58,000
Um

1312
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,720
the complaints do come and even with

1313
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:03,280
things like when I train my horses it

1314
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,559
looks abusive or and I know that are

1315
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:08,240
some of you that do know my family the

1316
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:10,720
howics and that we've had horses there

1317
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:13,359
for a very long time and they constantly

1318
00:57:13,359 --> 00:57:15,200
got calls when we were training our

1319
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,760
colts and training our horses that were

1320
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,000
abusing them or it's caused more flies

1321
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,480
or dust or whatever.

1322
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:27,280
and it just gets to the point where

1323
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,520
they get pushed out and I don't want to

1324
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,760
see that.

1325
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,520
So I strongly urge the planning

1326
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,400
commission to vote against recommending

1327
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,640
this map.

1328
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,240
Please protect the integrity of North

1329
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,240
Ogden's existing residential zones and

1330
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,880
protect our local agricultural spaces.

1331
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:55,829
Thank you.

1332
00:57:55,839 --> 00:57:59,040
Hi, I'm Lisa Dreeze and I just want to

1333
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,640
um I support her and I don't know how

1334
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,559
many of you were here when Country Boy

1335
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:09,359
Dairy was our dairy. It was an amazing

1336
00:58:09,359 --> 00:58:12,160
part of North Ogden. And once they

1337
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,640
started building the homes behind

1338
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,680
Country Boy Dairy, the Hancocks had so

1339
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,480
many complaints about the smell of the

1340
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,079
cows. They were they've been there. They

1341
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:26,079
had been there for years and years. And all the residents that were

1342
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:27,839
moving in complained about the smell of

1343
00:58:27,839 --> 00:58:30,880
the cows and the odor and everything

1344
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,319
that went along with it. And what

1345
00:58:32,319 --> 00:58:34,960
happened to Country Boy Dairy? they shut

1346
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,200
him down because of all the complaints

1347
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,760
of the resident. So, I want to back her

1348
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,000
because um that's part of what North

1349
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,960
Ogden is is um country. It's a little

1350
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,599
bit of country living. And I also

1351
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:52,160
strongly oppose um this density housing

1352
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,480
and the commercial

1353
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,359
um going in along the west side of

1354
00:58:57,359 --> 00:58:59,920
Washington. Um, we've, me and my

1355
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:01,280
husband, like he said, have lived in

1356
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,079
North Ogden for 40 years and we've loved

1357
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:08,240
North Ogden. Um, but it's becoming a

1358
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:16,400
real concern um of having commercial. I see these this duplex that's just down

1359
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,119
by Curts on the west side of the street.

1360
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:21,760
That is an eyesore. It is a complete

1361
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,000
eyesore. Do you know that years ago the

1362
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,480
barber that lived right next to there

1363
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,040
was moved out of his home and they tore

1364
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,280
down his home and he moved because they

1365
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:34,480
said they were going to build something

1366
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,880
there. Those that duplex is still there.

1367
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,200
There's graffiti on it. Kids have gone

1368
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,319
in and destroyed. You see things hanging

1369
00:59:42,319 --> 00:59:45,680
down from the windows. What is Why can't

1370
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,720
we do something there? residential or

1371
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,599
commercial and that is there a reason

1372
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:53,680
why that's still sitting there that

1373
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,240
duplex.

1374
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:57,599
Do you guys know what I'm talking about

1375
00:59:57,599 --> 00:59:58,160
across?

1376
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,119
>> Yep, we do.

1377
00:59:59,119 --> 00:59:59,760
>> Okay.

1378
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:00,319
>> The property

1379
01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:02,240
>> is there any I mean they were going to

1380
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,480
do something with that property probably

1381
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:05,839
25 years ago.

1382
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:07,680
>> That you probably want to talk to the

1383
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,880
property owner. It it's I mean it's not

1384
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,920
our decision to put something there.

1385
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,839
>> I agree it's an isore. I really do.

1386
01:00:15,839 --> 01:00:17,760
Okay. But Mayor Taylor took those homes

1387
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,400
away from the residents 10 years ago.

1388
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,319
The Jensen, they they raised their

1389
01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:25,200
family there. Mayor Taylor went in and

1390
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,680
condemned those homes and moved them out

1391
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,520
and bought those homes. The city has

1392
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,240
owned those homes for 10 years and

1393
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,599
rented them out making money off of

1394
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:38,160
those homes. And now they've been torn

1395
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,880
down. And my understanding was it was to

1396
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,280
widen the road. or when Connie Jensen

1397
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,119
was bought out, it was because there was

1398
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:47,119
going to be a roundabout put there. That

1399
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:50,079
was 10 years ago and the city has has

1400
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:52,079
brought in rent money from those homes.

1401
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:55,589
Am I correct?

1402
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:57,280
» I can. Yes, that's correct.

1403
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:58,240
>> That is correct.

1404
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,359
>> They were not condemned. All of sold

1405
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:03,599
their home voluntarily.

1406
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:07,200
>> Not not in my understanding. Connie

1407
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,040
Jensen was a teacher at Greenacres

1408
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,119
Elementary and she came to schools

1409
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:12,960
>> in mention this is part of the reason we

1410
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,520
don't do the back and forth. I was in

1411
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,280
the living rooms during the those

1412
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,680
negotiations. It was all voluntary.

1413
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,920
There weren't any condemnation con

1414
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,319
condem condemnation that was used

1415
01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:25,920
because the money we used actually

1416
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,240
didn't allow for condemnation unless the

1417
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,760
project was happening in the next two

1418
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,720
years. So,

1419
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:33,839
>> okay. Okay. Well, I'm not going to go

1420
01:01:33,839 --> 01:01:36,000
back and forth, but all I'm saying is

1421
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,200
they were, as far as my understanding,

1422
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,119
they were pretty much taken. And I've talked to several residents

1423
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:45,040
that lived there. So, that's just my

1424
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,680
understanding. But, I'm just backing her

1425
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,200
and I'm opposing any commercial

1426
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,200
property, any anything along above

1427
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,280
Le.

1428
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:18,710
So, thank you

1429
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,200
My name is uh Kent Bell. I'm a lifelong

1430
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,839
resident of North Ogden. And my home's

1431
01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:27,440
going to be is on the south side of the

1432
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,480
uh this lot right where the driveway is

1433
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:34,559
going to be with uh five individual

1434
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:37,599
homes there. There's going to be what,

1435
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:39,680
at least uh

1436
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,559
four or five people in each home with

1437
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:44,319
two or three cars pulling in and out of

1438
01:02:44,319 --> 01:02:48,160
there and a lot of uh lights on and off

1439
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,000
there. It's going to make it harder to

1440
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,760
pull out of your drive pull out of our

1441
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,720
driveway and it's going to totally ruin

1442
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,240
the privacy that we have in our

1443
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:57,839
backyard.

1444
01:02:57,839 --> 01:02:59,680
If you guys live next to it, you would

1445
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,319
not want that either. So, I'm totally

1446
01:03:02,319 --> 01:03:05,040
against this reszoning

1447
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:10,000
and I think that uh like uh Trev and his

1448
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,599
wife Jess have said that it would uh be

1449
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:16,960
a big impact on their uh animals and

1450
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,480
horses and everything there. And

1451
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,119
this part of North Ogden should not be a

1452
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:26,000
multi-

1453
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,200
house dwelling there. It's supposed to

1454
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,160
be for individual homes and not uh high

1455
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:45,750
density homes like that. Thank you.

1456
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,599
My name is Deian Burns and I agree with

1457
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:51,680
Lisa Defreeze

1458
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,559
in the eyesore and stating of country

1459
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:58,319
boy dairy. And I also as a citizen of

1460
01:03:58,319 --> 01:04:01,039
North Ogden, I am using my first

1461
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:03,119
amendment right and I don't think we

1462
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:05,839
should be chastised for coming up and

1463
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:08,319
using that. You as the planning

1464
01:04:08,319 --> 01:04:10,720
commission do not have to reply and you

1465
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:22,150
don't have to be rude about it.

1466
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,480
My name is David Parkinson. I live at

1467
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,440
470 East, 2750 North, which is just

1468
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,960
around the corner. Um,

1469
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,280
and uh, 2700 North, sorry. And, uh, I

1470
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,319
agree with the Davis family. Um, I have

1471
01:04:38,319 --> 01:04:39,920
horse property right next to my

1472
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,400
property. I know what kind of smells. I

1473
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,520
know what kind of flies that that fly

1474
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,280
around. I know what kind of dust they

1475
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,760
kick up. I grew up in the country and

1476
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:53,440
I'm all right with it. Um, I took steps

1477
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,760
at my house to enclose my back deck

1478
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,359
because I didn't like the dust getting

1479
01:04:57,359 --> 01:05:00,079
all over my furniture all the time so I

1480
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:02,640
could go out and, you know, do things.

1481
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,599
And uh, but I know that if you put in

1482
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:07,200
those kind of lots, you'll get

1483
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,280
complaints. There will be no doubt in my

1484
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:10,880
mind you'll get complaints on those

1485
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:14,720
things. Uh, Camp Bell has a beautiful

1486
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:20,079
home right there and uh

1487
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:22,799
it would be a travesty

1488
01:05:22,799 --> 01:05:25,359
to put all these highdensity homes right

1489
01:05:25,359 --> 01:05:29,440
next to his. Um,

1490
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,079
that lot situated perfectly for another

1491
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:34,640
beautiful home just like his. that would

1492
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,319
uh complement the area, have a huge

1493
01:05:38,319 --> 01:05:42,079
backyard, allow for, you know, the horse

1494
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:44,240
dust to come over in the yard and

1495
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,400
fertilize the the ground and do

1496
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,480
whatever, but it wouldn't bother the

1497
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,240
home. And I think that's just

1498
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,640
it isn't right to do those kinds of

1499
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,559
things. I know the property owner has

1500
01:05:56,559 --> 01:05:59,119
rights and I know that uh they'll want

1501
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:00,960
to do what they want to do, but the Shaw

1502
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,760
owned that for many years and uh refused

1503
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,160
to develop it because they knew that the

1504
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,160
neighbors had horses. They knew that

1505
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,920
they used to have horses and stuff

1506
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:16,079
there. So, I just think it's uh not the

1507
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:20,000
right thing to do for this property. And

1508
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,109
uh

1509
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:25,680
I think it'll also affect the traffic a

1510
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:30,160
lot in that area. Um when you get five

1511
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,680
homes with up to three cars each, two

1512
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,680
cars, there's a lot of people coming in

1513
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:42,640
and out of there all day long. Kids, get older and start driving. And

1514
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:44,480
this area has a lot of kids walking

1515
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,640
around. Kids coming down on skateboards

1516
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,720
to come to the park and stuff. It

1517
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,400
doesn't need any more high traffic.

1518
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:51,839
Doesn't need people going up and down

1519
01:06:51,839 --> 01:06:55,440
the street like they do. Um, it would be

1520
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,760
just a much safer place if there was

1521
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,079
just a single home built there. I don't

1522
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:02,240
have a problem breaking the two lots up

1523
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,480
out front, but maybe they could

1524
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:06,559
subdivide off the back and sell it as

1525
01:07:06,559 --> 01:07:09,599
one big lot and get a nice home there

1526
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:12,160
that would complement the area. Thank

1527
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:23,589
you.

1528
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:25,680
Hello, Jim Flint, Hansen and Associates,

1529
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,520
538 North Main, Brigham City. I think

1530
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:34,559
looking at this, the key word is infill.

1531
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:37,200
There's we've got agricultural existing,

1532
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,760
historical on both sides, but at the end

1533
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:43,520
of the day, this is just a 1.2 2 acre

1534
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,920
infill project that would that would be

1535
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,559
slated for orderly development within

1536
01:07:48,559 --> 01:07:52,720
the city and um I can sympathize with

1537
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,920
some of the others. I um

1538
01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:01,039
my bedroom is 40 feet from a dairy.

1539
01:08:01,039 --> 01:08:02,799
I'm fortunate because it doesn't affect

1540
01:08:02,799 --> 01:08:06,799
me at all. But um

1541
01:08:06,799 --> 01:08:12,319
I don't think that the longtime agricultural

1542
01:08:12,319 --> 01:08:14,480
activities

1543
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,960
should overpower

1544
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,679
the s the simplistic view that this is

1545
01:08:19,679 --> 01:08:22,799
basically an infill development. Thank

1546
01:08:22,799 --> 01:08:37,910
you.

1547
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:41,120
My name is Douglas Varnner. I live at 36

1548
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:42,799
3671

1549
01:08:42,799 --> 01:08:45,759
Lake View Drive. Um, I have prepared

1550
01:08:45,759 --> 01:08:47,120
comments. I'll keep it under five

1551
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,600
minutes. I will mention that several of

1552
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,839
my neighbors have read my comments and

1553
01:08:51,839 --> 01:08:54,080
have approved of my comments to be given

1554
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:55,920
tonight.

1555
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,480
Good evening, commissioners. I am here

1556
01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:01,440
tonight in strict opposition to the

1557
01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:07,189
reszone of parcel 18-021-00006

1558
01:09:07,199 --> 01:09:09,279
from RCC

1559
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:12,000
to R15

1560
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,960
and the discussed gas station and

1561
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,440
commercial zone at 3100 north and north

1562
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:22,159
450 east.

1563
01:09:22,159 --> 01:09:24,400
This intersection is a literal doorstep

1564
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:29,759
and gateway to our hillside neighborhood

1565
01:09:29,759 --> 01:09:32,880
at the top of Lake View. When my family

1566
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,120
and our neighbors invested our life

1567
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,159
savings in our homes here, we did so

1568
01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:40,799
based on the city's promised zoning

1569
01:09:40,799 --> 01:09:44,080
maps. We trusted that the residential

1570
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,440
city center designation would protect

1571
01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:50,080
the single family character of our

1572
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,080
neighborhood.

1573
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,560
The current unannounced construction on

1574
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:59,520
the lower end of 400 North 450 East with

1575
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,719
his associated detours has already

1576
01:10:02,719 --> 01:10:05,760
severely alienated this section of our

1577
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:09,040
North Ogden community.

1578
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,199
Communication has broken down, leaving

1579
01:10:11,199 --> 01:10:14,080
residents dependent on rumors for

1580
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,159
development plans and scheduled

1581
01:10:16,159 --> 01:10:18,400
completion dates for street

1582
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:19,920
construction.

1583
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,960
Now, these proposed actions

1584
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,840
threaten tonight threaten to to compound

1585
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,880
that damage and sour public opinion

1586
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,760
permanently. This is no longer just a

1587
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,159
zoning debate.

1588
01:10:34,159 --> 01:10:37,040
It is a question of representation and

1589
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,000
sound planning principles.

1590
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:41,520
First, let's look at the planning

1591
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:46,000
reality. A high density R15

1592
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,440
reszone paired with a major commercial

1593
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:52,480
gas station completely ignores

1594
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:54,560
neighborhood compatibility.

1595
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:58,400
The North Ogden General Plan explicitly

1596
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,920
tasked this commission with protecting

1597
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:05,199
established single family neighborhoods.

1598
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:09,920
Downgrading this prop this parcel to R15

1599
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,400
and slapping the commercial zone next to

1600
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,040
it is the literal definition of

1601
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:16,560
incompatible

1602
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,640
spot zoning.

1603
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:22,000
It fails to provide any reasonable

1604
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,719
transition or buffer zone between

1605
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:27,840
intense commercial activity and quiet

1606
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,400
residential doorsteps.

1607
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,719
Second, consider the immediate

1608
01:11:32,719 --> 01:11:35,679
infrastructure and safety strain. The

1609
01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:39,679
intersection of 3100 North and 450 East

1610
01:11:39,679 --> 01:11:43,520
is not built to safely handle the heavy

1611
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,480
fuel tankers, constant idling delivery

1612
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:50,320
vehicles, and high volume 247 cutth

1613
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,880
through traffic that a major convenience

1614
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,800
store requires.

1615
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,199
Furthermore, placing a hightraic

1616
01:11:57,199 --> 01:12:00,080
commercial business like a Maverick gas

1617
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,719
station, which sells vaping and tobacco

1618
01:12:02,719 --> 01:12:04,960
products directly in the path of our

1619
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,760
high school students going to and from

1620
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:10,960
school, raises severe safety and health

1621
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,760
concerns that this commission cannot

1622
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:15,040
ignore.

1623
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,520
We are intentionally introducing a

1624
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,679
massive attractive nuisance and severe

1625
01:12:21,679 --> 01:12:24,800
pedestrian vehicle conflict points right

1626
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,440
where our children walk. The

1627
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:30,000
consequences of your choices tonight

1628
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,960
will be felt for generations. If this

1629
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,000
body chooses to prioritize commercial

1630
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:40,400
expansion and dense developer profits

1631
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,640
over safety, stability, and express will

1632
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,600
of citizens who live here. We will

1633
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,560
respond at the ballot box. We are not

1634
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,360
just a handful of disgruntled neighbors.

1635
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,840
We are organized. We are talking

1636
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:58,320
doortodoor. and we will actively

1637
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,040
campaign to replace every elected

1638
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:03,760
official who fails to represent the

1639
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:06,719
citizens clear will. We will remember

1640
01:13:06,719 --> 01:13:09,520
who voted to protect our children, our

1641
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:11,760
property values, and who voted to

1642
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,480
dismantle them. Please follow the

1643
01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:17,440
directives of our general plan, protect

1644
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:21,199
the safety of our student pathways,

1645
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:24,239
deny this reszone, and protect our

1646
01:13:24,239 --> 01:13:37,910
neighborhood gateway. Thank you.

1647
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:40,000
There any more comments? Any comments

1648
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,440
online? No hands raised. Um, invite the

1649
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:45,040
developer back up if you'd like to

1650
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:50,320
answer any of the concerns raised. Uh,

1651
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:51,040
>> chairman.

1652
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,080
>> Yes.

1653
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,560
Before we do that, we are talking only

1654
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,080
about the 1.1. We're not talking about

1655
01:13:58,080 --> 01:13:59,360
the commercial at this point.

1656
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:01,679
>> I guess the man I'm not involved in the

1657
01:14:01,679 --> 01:14:01,920
Oh,

1658
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,239
>> right. This the public hearing.

1659
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:04,800
>> Yeah.

1660
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,320
>> Or the 1.1 acres only has nothing to do

1661
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:09,040
with the commercial.

1662
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,199
>> The commercial under consider this

1663
01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:14,239
moment. So bear in mind those comments

1664
01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:15,920
moved back and forth I think a little

1665
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,760
bit but certainly to be considered but

1666
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,679
not particularly

1667
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:24,239
all of the comments for this specific

1668
01:14:24,239 --> 01:14:24,960
item

1669
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,600
>> and and it's related just to the reszone

1670
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:31,679
not to the site plan those five new lots

1671
01:14:31,679 --> 01:14:32,480
>> correct

1672
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:35,280
>> so

1673
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:36,800
yeah I have nothing to do with the

1674
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,159
commercial and that's a whole separate

1675
01:14:40,159 --> 01:14:43,360
item for me. I empathize with the people

1676
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,600
who have the horses. I've had horses for

1677
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,480
45 years. I've had them with my

1678
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:50,960
neighbors. Uh yeah, there's problems

1679
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,199
that come up. One time they got out and

1680
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:55,520
went through the neighbor's garden and I

1681
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,600
had to fix it. But as a whole,

1682
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,679
uh I didn't really have a lot of

1683
01:15:01,679 --> 01:15:04,239
problems. And I don't know what North

1684
01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:06,640
Ogden zoning is. How many large animals

1685
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,440
can you have per acre? What does the

1686
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:14,390
zoning say?

1687
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,120
Does anyone know that? I don't know how

1688
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,280
many animals these people are running.

1689
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,159
Sounds like a whole ranch.

1690
01:15:22,159 --> 01:15:23,760
So, I think that's something that ought

1691
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,679
to be considered. And we don't there's

1692
01:15:27,679 --> 01:15:29,760
no problem with us putting up a privacy

1693
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,320
fence. I think it's a good idea. I like

1694
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,120
the other gentleman's comments.

1695
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,960
So, you know, no one likes development.

1696
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:40,560
They always want it to be somewhere

1697
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,679
else. And it's the same story in every

1698
01:15:43,679 --> 01:15:46,400
city. When a developer comes in and

1699
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,440
wants to change the environment, no one

1700
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:52,239
wants it changed. The fellow who spoke

1701
01:15:52,239 --> 01:15:54,320
from Lake View, I was around when that

1702
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,320
was developed. That caused a big

1703
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:58,800
problem. But you know what? They allowed

1704
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,560
it to go and he's happy living up there

1705
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:04,080
in Lake View. So, it's the same story

1706
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:05,920
over and over again. And we don't want

1707
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,640
to be bad neighbors. We want to be good

1708
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:10,800
neighbors. We don't want to cause anyone

1709
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,920
any problems. And I like his idea of the

1710
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:16,880
six-foot privacy fence. I think that's a

1711
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,159
great idea to do it. So, would

1712
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:24,320
appreciate your consideration and uh

1713
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:31,350
that's all I have to say. Thank you.

1714
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:32,159
» All right.

1715
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:34,640
>> I I mean I can answer that question. So

1716
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,560
on properties in the R18 AG zone, so

1717
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:40,320
this is the properties immediately

1718
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:42,719
around it are zoned R18. So it's a

1719
01:16:42,719 --> 01:16:45,360
standard 8,000 foot zoning. So these

1720
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:46,640
animal keeping rights would be

1721
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,560
considered legal non-conforming uses

1722
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,640
that wouldn't go away or change until

1723
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,880
that property owner sold the property,

1724
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:55,679
changed the use. If they were to abate

1725
01:16:55,679 --> 01:16:57,679
the use for at least one year, you know,

1726
01:16:57,679 --> 01:17:00,080
the city could potentially enforce no

1727
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,320
animals coming back. But the current

1728
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,760
zoning requires at least one acre and up

1729
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,719
to five acres in size. Animals and fowl

1730
01:17:08,719 --> 01:17:11,280
are limited to four horses, cows, sheep,

1731
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,760
or goats or combination thereof per

1732
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:17,120
acre. Um, so you would need to have

1733
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:18,880
today if you were going to get animal

1734
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,840
keeping rights in the R18 AG zone, you

1735
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:23,280
would have to have at least one acre of

1736
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,280
property in order to get any large

1737
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:29,669
animals on there.

1738
01:17:29,679 --> 01:17:31,360
» Thank you.

1739
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:33,520
Scott, I I have a question.

1740
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:34,960
>> Should we close the public hearing

1741
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,719
first? Okay. Uh motion to close the

1742
01:17:38,719 --> 01:17:40,239
public hearing.

1743
01:17:40,239 --> 01:17:41,280
>> Second.

1744
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,480
>> Great. Let's go ahead and close that.

1745
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:46,320
>> Go ahead and with your question,

1746
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,880
>> Scott. Uh when we talk about high

1747
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:50,560
density

1748
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:54,640
and as it relates to R15, what is the

1749
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,360
current definition of high density? So

1750
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,840
the general plan's current definition of

1751
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:03,120
high density is 18 units per acre up to

1752
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,600
40 units per acre. And to give a little

1753
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,080
context, the highest density that the

1754
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,320
city has currently would be the

1755
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:12,000
apartment portion of Village at

1756
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:13,360
Prominence Point that are being

1757
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,480
constructed now north of 1700 North is

1758
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:19,520
right about 17 units per acre if you

1759
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,080
extract just the apartment component out

1760
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:26,560
of it. Um, rural residential is lots

1761
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,560
that are half acre or larger. Low

1762
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,440
density residential is 8,000 square ft

1763
01:18:31,440 --> 01:18:35,120
or larger, which is uh what the R18A or

1764
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,000
R18 zone is. Medium density residential

1765
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,520
is 4,000 to 8,000 square ft, as well as

1766
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:43,280
attached housing types and densities in

1767
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:46,560
the range of 6 to 18 units per acre. um

1768
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:49,280
this particular downtown area. It's in

1769
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,600
the downtown mixeduse area of the

1770
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,280
general plan and within walking distance

1771
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,120
north and south of this particular

1772
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,679
property, you have a 10plex apartment

1773
01:18:59,679 --> 01:19:02,800
and 10 duplexes to the south and then 10

1774
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:06,159
duplexes just one block north and to the

1775
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:09,280
east. So, it's a difficult it's a

1776
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:10,800
difficult area of the city to pin down

1777
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:14,960
what exactly is the right use. So an R15

1778
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,760
is a medium density. It is not a high

1779
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:18,320
density.

1780
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:20,000
>> It would be medium density by our

1781
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,600
definitions in our general plan.

1782
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,679
>> All right, Scott, I have a question for

1783
01:19:23,679 --> 01:19:24,159
you.

1784
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:25,679
>> Yeah.

1785
01:19:25,679 --> 01:19:27,360
>> What can be built in residential city

1786
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,120
center, which is zoned right now? What

1787
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:30,080
could be built there now?

1788
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,320
>> So right now you could do 8,000 foot

1789
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:34,560
lots with a 9,000 square foot on the

1790
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,600
corner. Given the property size and the

1791
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,000
configuration of a private street today,

1792
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:42,159
they could build

1793
01:19:42,159 --> 01:19:43,920
depending on the configuration between

1794
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:46,320
three and four of those lots as it

1795
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,480
currently is depending on the fire

1796
01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:51,199
turnaround required on the west side.

1797
01:19:51,199 --> 01:19:52,880
>> And you're saying that with maintaining

1798
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,880
the two homes that are there on the

1799
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:55,600
Washington side?

1800
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,600
>> Yep. So that would be just the portion

1801
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,760
the rear yard portion of the property

1802
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:01,760
could be potentially. And I haven't, you

1803
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:03,120
know, I don't design it. I don't draw

1804
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:05,840
it. I don't I just did some basic basic

1805
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:09,440
math on lot widths and lot sizes. You

1806
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:12,239
could get at least three and potentially

1807
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:14,480
four under current zoning today. So it

1808
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:18,229
wouldn't require the reszone.

1809
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:20,640
» Scott. Oh, sorry. Did I jump in front of

1810
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:23,120
somebody? Sorry. Side of my eyes aren't

1811
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:27,120
working real well. Jump over. um

1812
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,080
a couple of blocks south

1813
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:33,440
of this at the corner of 450 and 2700

1814
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:36,960
North on the southwest corner. Um you'll

1815
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,760
remember back when I was on council that

1816
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,960
there was a long discussion about I I

1817
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,159
believe we approved duplexes on that. We

1818
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:46,800
did not.

1819
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,600
>> It's R1. It's actually R4. So it's

1820
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:51,760
>> it's R4 that we approved.

1821
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:53,440
>> Okay. I couldn't remember the zone that

1822
01:20:53,440 --> 01:20:55,440
we approved there, but I do remember the

1823
01:20:55,440 --> 01:20:57,440
discussion. There being lots of

1824
01:20:57,440 --> 01:20:59,120
discussion amongst planning commission

1825
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:03,840
and council at the time about

1826
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,880
while this R5 isn't high density, it's

1827
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,760
technically medium density, but we did

1828
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:11,440
have conversation

1829
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:13,760
and con concern about the creep of

1830
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,280
higher density slowly block by block

1831
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,640
going further and further north. Um,

1832
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:24,960
that's the only concern I have. It When

1833
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:27,040
I first looked at this, I was trying to

1834
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:28,480
figure out how in the world they were

1835
01:21:28,480 --> 01:21:30,880
going to get out onto 400, out onto

1836
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:33,199
Washington. Then I looked a little

1837
01:21:33,199 --> 01:21:34,400
deeper and saw that they were going to

1838
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:38,320
get out onto 450 East. Um, so I I think

1839
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:43,440
there's a lot to consider here. Um,

1840
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:44,880
okay. That was what I wanted to know,

1841
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:46,560
though, was what we had zoned that one

1842
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:54,070
corner. Thank you. Right.

1843
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:55,840
We'll uh if there are no more questions

1844
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:57,280
for Scott, we'll open it up to

1845
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:00,800
discussion amongst ourselves here.

1846
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:02,000
>> Well, maybe I have a question. Maybe

1847
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:06,709
it's just leading into the discussion.

1848
01:22:06,719 --> 01:22:09,040
the ascertation of the agricultural

1849
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:11,280
private private property rights that we

1850
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:14,800
heard. Are are there means and methods

1851
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:19,750
we can do to

1852
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,560
address any of those? I mean, he's got

1853
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:25,040
horses. It seems pretty common sense to

1854
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:28,000
someone buying a home

1855
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:29,679
>> that it's going to smell like manure

1856
01:22:29,679 --> 01:22:31,360
here and there. You know, July is going

1857
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:34,790
to be really ripe.

1858
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,000
Do we do we have the means to address

1859
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:41,679
anything like that or is that more of a

1860
01:22:41,679 --> 01:22:44,560
I guess I'm more just concerned as comp

1861
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,199
if there are complaints how does the

1862
01:22:47,199 --> 01:22:50,400
city address that is there does it get

1863
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:52,400
addressed does everything have to be

1864
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:56,000
investigated and talked about or is it a

1865
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,000
yeah

1866
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,080
there's horses there

1867
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,639
>> it's basically they're moving to the

1868
01:23:02,639 --> 01:23:04,719
nuisance And I'm not a land use lawyer,

1869
01:23:04,719 --> 01:23:07,120
but when that happens, the prevailing

1870
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:10,000
uses rights exist. So the animal keeping

1871
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,800
rights wouldn't be impacted other than

1872
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,199
maybe, you know, noisy neighbors that

1873
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:17,679
move into those homes, but they moved

1874
01:23:17,679 --> 01:23:21,760
into the nuisance essentially. And right

1875
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:25,040
now, the residential city center zoning,

1876
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:27,760
you could have a single family home with

1877
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,560
the rear yard being 20 ft from the

1878
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,000
property line. Um, so it's not I guess

1879
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,239
that the change from the current zoning

1880
01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:40,239
to the R15 one permits the splitting of

1881
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:41,920
those homes out on Washington Boulevard

1882
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,080
into their own individual lots. So it

1883
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:45,679
doesn't keep it doesn't have a

1884
01:23:45,679 --> 01:23:47,520
nonconformity of lot width because lot

1885
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:51,199
widths are 55 ft. But right now they

1886
01:23:51,199 --> 01:23:54,000
could develop R18, a small infill

1887
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,199
subdivision with functionally similar

1888
01:23:57,199 --> 01:24:01,520
setbacks and it's legal in the code the

1889
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,000
permitted use of the property today. So

1890
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,320
there's not really

1891
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:08,480
I guess the answer is no. Like we we

1892
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:10,960
can't require this property owner to

1893
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,040
separate their structures based on their

1894
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,679
zoning further away from an existing use

1895
01:24:15,679 --> 01:24:17,760
just because of potential nuisance

1896
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,880
claims. And and just as an example, the

1897
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:23,520
current proposals, two existing, five

1898
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:26,800
new. If everything was to be raised and

1899
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,920
just go R18, do you have an idea of what

1900
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:31,440
that number is? Is it in the six or

1901
01:24:31,440 --> 01:24:33,679
seven range as well?

1902
01:24:33,679 --> 01:24:35,440
>> Hold on one second.

1903
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:36,080
>> Probably not.

1904
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:37,600
>> We'll use the only number that matters

1905
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:40,480
in planning, which is 43,560

1906
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:43,600
ft per acre times 1.22.

1907
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,320
So you have 53,143.

1908
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,560
If you divide that by 8,000 square foot

1909
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:52,560
lots, it's 6.6. So that's that's the

1910
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,159
number I got where you have the two and

1911
01:24:54,159 --> 01:24:56,400
then potentially, you know, three plus

1912
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,800
potentially one more

1913
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:00,960
um is what if they were to take

1914
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,040
everything down and do one infill

1915
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:04,880
private drive development approximately

1916
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,920
what they'd be able to get.

1917
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:13,040
Scott, uh, could we provide an

1918
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,360
additional buffer to that agricultural

1919
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:20,000
use by possibly when they proposed a

1920
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,520
subdivision,

1921
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,320
maybe flip the street and put it on the

1922
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:25,360
north side?

1923
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:26,960
>> Yeah. And that was that was originally

1924
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,679
staff's recommendation just based on the

1925
01:25:29,679 --> 01:25:33,040
lining up the road to 2700 North. I

1926
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,360
think if you look historically at the

1927
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:37,360
property ownerships there as it gets out

1928
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,080
to Washington Boulevard, 2700 was likely

1929
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:42,719
supposed to connect, but it creates an

1930
01:25:42,719 --> 01:25:44,239
offset intersection.

1931
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:44,719
>> It does

1932
01:25:44,719 --> 01:25:47,120
>> between Lmen View and 2700 that

1933
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,280
>> that's already a dangerous lefthand

1934
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:49,760
turn,

1935
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,639
>> but I I'm talking just private street

1936
01:25:52,639 --> 01:25:53,440
maybe.

1937
01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:56,080
>> So, uh it's it gives an additional

1938
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,280
buffer

1939
01:25:57,280 --> 01:25:58,719
>> to the homes.

1940
01:25:58,719 --> 01:26:00,560
>> You could do that. And the the great

1941
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:02,560
thing about a reasonzoning process or

1942
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:04,480
any legislative process is that

1943
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:06,000
stipulations could be put on the

1944
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,080
property. So right now it's a reszone

1945
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:09,760
request not with a development

1946
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:11,520
agreement. It's just to a you know

1947
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,840
standard R15 and then we develop it

1948
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:17,840
under legal standards. So unless the

1949
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:19,440
reszone were to come in with the

1950
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:20,960
requirement that the street be on the

1951
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:25,199
north side, it would be however can you, know, how can you make this property

1952
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:28,719
culinary water, sewer, storm water, do

1953
01:26:28,719 --> 01:26:30,480
all of the the legal requirements for

1954
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:32,400
the subdivision process, but that's

1955
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:33,679
something the planning commission,

1956
01:26:33,679 --> 01:26:35,760
should you make a recommendation, could

1957
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,920
recommend to city council as part of the

1958
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:41,360
legislative decision. But otherwise, a

1959
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:44,000
home could be built 20 ft from the

1960
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,320
property line and meet the current

1961
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:47,679
>> meet the currents of

1962
01:26:47,679 --> 01:26:50,639
>> requirements.

1963
01:26:50,639 --> 01:26:51,360
>> Yes, John.

1964
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:56,239
>> I I think it's important to note uh that

1965
01:26:56,239 --> 01:26:58,400
uh when you're talking non-conforming

1966
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,560
uses, nuisances, there's a whole lot of

1967
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,639
like factual things that come into play

1968
01:27:02,639 --> 01:27:05,920
there. And so it's hard to say in in any

1969
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:08,639
given situation without thoroughly

1970
01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:12,080
exploring everything um whether what

1971
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,440
rights would prevail. Um I do think for

1972
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:19,280
example that um

1973
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,159
the the longevity of the use has some

1974
01:27:22,159 --> 01:27:26,080
impact but it's not it's not always

1975
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:27,840
protected which is why courts fight over

1976
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,880
nuisances all the time. It's not

1977
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:32,400
something the city would be involved in

1978
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:33,840
typically. It's typically something

1979
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:44,310
between two neighboring property owners.

1980
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:50,560
I think R18 fits better in this spot. I there's no R15 surrounding it and I I

1981
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:52,480
think R18 would fit better, which is

1982
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:54,880
very similar to what's already there.

1983
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:57,120
And

1984
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:00,239
you know there's R14 across Washington

1985
01:28:00,239 --> 01:28:02,159
but there's no R1. You know

1986
01:28:02,159 --> 01:28:04,080
>> that puts it closer to R15 but there's

1987
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:05,920
no R15 on this side. And if you look at

1988
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:07,360
the road which is going into the

1989
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:09,520
neighborhood towards the school the rest

1990
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:14,629
of them are all roughly R R1A.

1991
01:28:14,639 --> 01:28:17,040
It's my understanding too that this is a

1992
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,320
request to change it to R15. So, we

1993
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:23,760
don't necessarily need to provide

1994
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,280
suggestions.

1995
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:28,560
We can simply deny the request if that's

1996
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:31,360
the way the council moves. I'm just I'm

1997
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:34,239
just saying there's not a lot of reason

1998
01:28:34,239 --> 01:28:35,760
to say, well, what if you did it this

1999
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,040
way or what if you did it that way?

2000
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:39,280
>> Well, we're we're recommending to the

2001
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:40,239
council.

2002
01:28:40,239 --> 01:28:40,560
>> Correct.

2003
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:41,760
>> I was going to say it's we're not we're

2004
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:43,120
not approving or denying. It's a

2005
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:43,440
recommend.

2006
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:44,800
>> Yes. Thank you. That's what I meant to

2007
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,639
say. But you know what I mean? like we

2008
01:28:46,639 --> 01:28:47,120
can say

2009
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:49,360
>> well and and the basis of my question to

2010
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:55,430
Scott on the R18 zoning is

2011
01:28:55,440 --> 01:29:00,159
» we're getting 6.6 six homes on the R18

2012
01:29:00,159 --> 01:29:04,709
reszone or not.

2013
01:29:04,719 --> 01:29:11,120
And and so that's where I'm at where the effect the effect of the reszone

2014
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:14,800
allows some older home character to be

2015
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,280
preserved. And with a denial of a

2016
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:19,920
reszone, those homes are going down and

2017
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,320
we're getting 6.6 six homes

2018
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:28,400
on the same property.

2019
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,239
You know, the the actual number of

2020
01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:32,639
residents is not something that our

2021
01:29:32,639 --> 01:29:35,199
decision is likely going to affect. Does

2022
01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:38,080
that make sense? Just the existing

2023
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:42,080
zoning at R18 fitting.

2024
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:46,480
It does fit the zone, but it also does,

2025
01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:48,159
you know, I spoke about ramifications

2026
01:29:48,159 --> 01:29:51,920
earlier. The ramifications are

2027
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:54,320
we know one of the two homes is likely

2028
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:56,560
going to be raised on Washington. They

2029
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:58,639
the developer is seeing some value in

2030
01:29:58,639 --> 01:30:01,520
retaining one of the older homes with a

2031
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,360
denial.

2032
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:06,400
We in essence could be putting into

2033
01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:09,440
effect a removal of that second home so

2034
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:11,600
that the same, you know, proposed

2035
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:26,709
density ends up occurring anyway.

2036
01:30:26,719 --> 01:30:30,390
Well,

2037
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:32,560
I would entertain a motion. I would also

2038
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,440
entertain further discussion. I my

2039
01:30:35,440 --> 01:30:40,719
opinion here um I don't it's really hard

2040
01:30:40,719 --> 01:30:46,000
to for me to say

2041
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:47,920
um

2042
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,360
uh you know to to pass this at R15 with

2043
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:54,159
the given

2044
01:30:54,159 --> 01:30:57,120
plan that we have here with the road I

2045
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,320
just it seems clunky to me but that's my

2046
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:01,440
opinion

2047
01:31:01,440 --> 01:31:04,320
>> right in my opinion just based on

2048
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:06,480
projects I've worked on with turnarounds

2049
01:31:06,480 --> 01:31:09,120
and driveways dealing with a fire

2050
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,440
marshal. I don't know how far their

2051
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:15,360
conversations have gone,

2052
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:17,040
but I'm not overly hopeful on the

2053
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:18,960
drawing that I've seen, but that is not

2054
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,360
the exhibit in which necessarily we make

2055
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:22,400
the decision on.

2056
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:23,520
>> Right.

2057
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:26,080
>> And they still have to get approval from

2058
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:27,280
the fire marshal.

2059
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:30,560
>> Exactly. So I again just to second what

2060
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,719
I said. I don't I don't think the number

2061
01:31:32,719 --> 01:31:36,800
of units on the property is going to be

2062
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:40,159
a direct change no matter what. It it

2063
01:31:40,159 --> 01:31:43,440
might cost a developer more money

2064
01:31:43,440 --> 01:31:46,800
to do so. But at R18,

2065
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,360
>> the project is likely more feasible and

2066
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:50,639
they don't have to do the fire

2067
01:31:50,639 --> 01:31:53,440
turnaround. It can be a through street.

2068
01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:56,239
>> Well, it's currently an RCC. It's not an

2069
01:31:56,239 --> 01:31:57,040
R18.

2070
01:31:57,040 --> 01:31:58,480
>> Correct. But we don't have the I don't

2071
01:31:58,480 --> 01:32:00,639
think we have the precedent to not go to

2072
01:32:00,639 --> 01:32:03,120
R18 based on the neighboring zoning

2073
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:04,000
being. So

2074
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:06,800
>> the the two are functionally the same.

2075
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:09,360
So the the zoning standards between R18

2076
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,639
and RCC are essentially the same. Um RCC

2077
01:32:12,639 --> 01:32:15,920
allows for some actually nuanced other

2078
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:17,600
interesting things. You can do attached

2079
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:19,120
dwelling units, planned unit

2080
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:22,239
development. So we, you know, looking at

2081
01:32:22,239 --> 01:32:24,400
the code, it's potential they could do

2082
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:26,639
twin homes, but there's some specifics

2083
01:32:26,639 --> 01:32:27,920
you have to meet in the attached

2084
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,000
dwelling units. But the RCC is a very

2085
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:32,400
open zone. But as far as lot widths,

2086
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,360
overall lot sizes, uh, setbacks, it's

2087
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:36,880
functionally R18.

2088
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:37,280
>> Yeah.

2089
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:39,679
>> And I understand what Commissioner

2090
01:32:39,679 --> 01:32:41,120
Bailey is saying,

2091
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,840
>> that the the residents may not get what

2092
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:45,600
they want, and that's not something that

2093
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:47,280
we have control because it is already

2094
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:49,280
zoned that way. But but we're we're

2095
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:51,440
deciding tonight if we're we're

2096
01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:54,000
recommending R15 and and I would

2097
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:55,120
>> I would put forward

2098
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:59,360
>> my reasons that I gave are directly

2099
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:00,880
related to that.

2100
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:03,040
>> Okay,

2101
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:04,800
I mean let's not dismiss those reasons.

2102
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,920
We're talking about an R15 versus an R1A

2103
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:11,040
and it's systematically ending up the

2104
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:13,600
same. But if we look at unintended

2105
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,159
consequences,

2106
01:33:16,159 --> 01:33:18,800
leaving it R1A and the landowner raises

2107
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,280
everything might be worse for everybody.

2108
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:24,000
It's just a consideration.

2109
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:27,280
>> I I got Thank you for that. I appreciate

2110
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:29,360
that. I I like that perspective. I

2111
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:31,360
didn't have that perspective necessarily

2112
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:35,280
before. Um,

2113
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:38,400
>> but if we're playing the long game here,

2114
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:38,880
>> good

2115
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,880
>> and we deny the change to R15, we will

2116
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:46,550
see another

2117
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:49,520
um, we'll see this again. Is that

2118
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:51,199
correct?

2119
01:33:51,199 --> 01:33:53,920
>> Possibly they could under the RCC

2120
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:54,560
>> RCC

2121
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:56,480
>> because they could effectively do the

2122
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:59,760
R18. Right. Right. 8,000. And as Scott

2123
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:02,000
mentioned a minute ago, the RCC zone is

2124
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:03,920
a little bit broader in what you can

2125
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:07,520
build than just the straight R18.

2126
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:12,400
>> Um, so it gives them effectively an R18

2127
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:15,600
just to leave it as it is. Um, with

2128
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:20,239
broader opportunity for twin homes and those kinds of things

2129
01:34:20,239 --> 01:34:24,080
um where going to the R5,

2130
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:26,239
it may preserve one of those homes out

2131
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:29,120
front, it might not. But it, you know,

2132
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:30,960
it uh it sounds like one of them is

2133
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:35,120
definitely going um

2134
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:37,199
Scott, if they

2135
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:40,880
end up coming back with uh

2136
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:44,960
keeping it the the existing zoning,

2137
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:47,920
>> that ends up being a minor subdivision

2138
01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:49,760
and we never see it.

2139
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:51,440
>> It depends on if there's any roadway

2140
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:53,199
dedications. Okay. Planning commission

2141
01:34:53,199 --> 01:34:56,400
accepts roadway dedication. There's it's

2142
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:58,560
likely the ride ofway width out there in

2143
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:00,560
front of North Ogden Park in the skate

2144
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:01,920
park. I think that's the full right

2145
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:03,280
ofway width. So they'd need to build

2146
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:05,840
sidewalk curb and gutter. So you may not

2147
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:07,760
see it. It might just come back as a

2148
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:09,600
private subdivision which is under 10

2149
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:11,679
lots and

2150
01:35:11,679 --> 01:35:13,520
no

2151
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:15,280
sorry under 10 lots and no roadway

2152
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:17,840
dedication or public dedication like

2153
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:26,470
storm detention basins.

2154
01:35:26,480 --> 01:35:28,880
We typically bring back small lot

2155
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:30,800
subdivisions that are on private streets

2156
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,639
that the private street is narrower than

2157
01:35:32,639 --> 01:35:34,639
a public street standard to the planning

2158
01:35:34,639 --> 01:35:37,120
commission because it requires by code a

2159
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:39,199
specific recommendation or permission

2160
01:35:39,199 --> 01:35:41,840
from the city engineer to do that. So

2161
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:43,520
we're usually fairly cautious on those

2162
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:45,360
items, but those are administrative.

2163
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:46,960
They're not legislative. They're not

2164
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:49,040
public hearings. public comments are

2165
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:51,199
encouraged, but it's a different process

2166
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:54,800
than what the reason looks like.

2167
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:56,320
>> So,

2168
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:58,320
you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking both

2169
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:00,960
ways and and and I'm I'm leaning toward

2170
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:03,760
an approval because I'm an imagining

2171
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:06,239
the creativity we create in a in a

2172
01:36:06,239 --> 01:36:09,040
denial to go back and look at the RCC

2173
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:11,679
zone and what can be done on the

2174
01:36:11,679 --> 01:36:13,840
property. I know it's not what everyone

2175
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:15,360
came in, you know, neighbors and stuff

2176
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:18,000
came in wanting, you know, with more

2177
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:21,120
homes, but it's likely

2178
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:23,040
going to be the same outcome. But I'm

2179
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:24,400
also sitting here going, we have an

2180
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,400
applicant asking for an R15, and in the

2181
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:30,159
RCC, it could be something

2182
01:36:30,159 --> 01:36:33,040
with some more creativity that could

2183
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:35,120
affect them in a more negative manner.

2184
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:38,239
and I'm seeing the limited sketch we

2185
01:36:38,239 --> 01:36:40,400
have and I'm a little bit leaning on a

2186
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,600
fire marshal and experience there. So,

2187
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:45,360
it might sound counterintuitive, but

2188
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:47,360
that's why I would lean for the reszone,

2189
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:51,119
lock it in those five lots. You know, I

2190
01:36:51,119 --> 01:36:52,480
know there's there's the potential that

2191
01:36:52,480 --> 01:36:55,360
they come back in for a change of zone

2192
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:57,280
on the front parcel and we would be

2193
01:36:57,280 --> 01:37:00,320
dealing with that later.

2194
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:02,400
But again, if you think of what more

2195
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:04,480
heads together and creativity and a

2196
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:06,880
straight through street with six homes,

2197
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:13,669
it's in essence the same outcome.

2198
01:37:13,679 --> 01:37:15,920
It's It would reszone the front lots

2199
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:17,520
though too. Correct. It's not

2200
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:19,280
>> It's all one lot. Correct. Yeah, this

2201
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:20,400
would reszone everything.

2202
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:21,119
>> Both lots.

2203
01:37:21,119 --> 01:37:24,480
>> Yep. If they were to subdivide and zone,

2204
01:37:24,480 --> 01:37:26,400
>> if they wanted to keep both homes out

2205
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:27,600
front and put them on their own

2206
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:29,040
individual lot,

2207
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:32,639
>> they need a a different zone than RCC.

2208
01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:34,960
There's only 141 ft of frontage. There's

2209
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:36,480
not enough width to get both of them

2210
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:41,119
there. The R15 at uh 55 foot frontages

2211
01:37:41,119 --> 01:37:43,119
would permit them to separate those onto

2212
01:37:43,119 --> 01:37:45,199
their own individual lots. That's kind

2213
01:37:45,199 --> 01:37:47,280
of its own issue of those the home

2214
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:49,920
viability on Washington Boulevard. But

2215
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,719
at the size of lot that they have 1.22

2216
01:37:52,719 --> 01:37:54,719
acres, you know, multiplied by the gross

2217
01:37:54,719 --> 01:37:56,560
density permitted, they could take

2218
01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:58,159
everything down and and just as

2219
01:37:58,159 --> 01:38:00,960
Commissioner Bailey is saying, have a an

2220
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:02,800
administrative process to just create a

2221
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:04,719
subdivision in there that planning

2222
01:38:04,719 --> 01:38:13,109
commission may not see.

2223
01:38:13,119 --> 01:38:14,880
But to subdivide the front lots, it

2224
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:16,639
would require a reszone or some other

2225
01:38:16,639 --> 01:38:18,239
type of

2226
01:38:18,239 --> 01:38:20,400
>> permission. Basically, they can't do it

2227
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,400
in the RCC zone.

2228
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:24,960
>> And R15 is the only way to make those

2229
01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:27,679
two lots on 450.

2230
01:38:27,679 --> 01:38:29,360
>> Yeah. On individual lots on

2231
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:30,880
>> on individual lots. Yeah.

2232
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:41,350
>> Yeah.

2233
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:43,360
Well, you know, I I I think everyone's

2234
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:44,880
going to have their opinion, and I think

2235
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:47,199
everyone's opinion is based on the same

2236
01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:50,080
protections of the property rights of

2237
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:54,080
the owner and the neighbors rights. I

2238
01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:55,760
don't know if there's a huge difference

2239
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:58,639
in in in

2240
01:38:58,639 --> 01:39:00,719
either decision.

2241
01:39:00,719 --> 01:39:04,080
So, if we wanted to keep going, we could

2242
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:05,840
or

2243
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:08,960
we could put it up to vote.

2244
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:10,239
>> Is that a motion?

2245
01:39:10,239 --> 01:39:11,840
>> I don't know. I don't know what the

2246
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:13,760
motion would be at this moment in time,

2247
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,000
but

2248
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:18,719
again, I I'm I'm with what's going on

2249
01:39:18,719 --> 01:39:22,550
around I'm I'm I'm

2250
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:23,920
I don't know if we're going to come to

2251
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,480
an agreement without just going for it.

2252
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:30,229
So I

2253
01:39:30,239 --> 01:39:36,709
let's see it's open somewhere.

2254
01:39:36,719 --> 01:39:42,239
So, I would make a motion to approve the zoning map

2255
01:39:42,239 --> 01:39:44,400
amendment

2256
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:48,080
for 2742 North 400 East to reszone the

2257
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:50,400
property from residential

2258
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:55,119
city center, which is effectively R18

2259
01:39:55,119 --> 01:39:59,040
to small lot residential R15 as an

2260
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,360
infill project

2261
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:04,480
with an added point on that approval

2262
01:40:04,480 --> 01:40:08,400
that This potentially allows some

2263
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:11,040
preservation of the home along

2264
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:12,480
Washington Boulevard.

2265
01:40:12,480 --> 01:40:14,159
>> And that's a recommendation.

2266
01:40:14,159 --> 01:40:15,520
>> That's a recommendation to approve.

2267
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:16,239
>> City council

2268
01:40:16,239 --> 01:40:19,040
>> to city council to approve.

2269
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:22,159
>> I'll second that.

2270
01:40:22,159 --> 01:40:22,880
>> Thank you.

2271
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,920
>> All right. Commissioner, excuse me,

2272
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:28,000
Commissioner Bailey mentioned uh excuse

2273
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:29,520
me, motion to approve the zoning

2274
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:31,119
amendment and Commissioner Gardner

2275
01:40:31,119 --> 01:40:33,600
seconded the motion. Let's go ahead and

2276
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:35,840
take a vote.

2277
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:37,280
Commissioner Bailey,

2278
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:38,000
>> yes.

2279
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:39,119
>> Commissioner Gardner,

2280
01:40:39,119 --> 01:40:39,679
>> yes.

2281
01:40:39,679 --> 01:40:41,040
>> Commissioner Settlemire,

2282
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:42,639
>> no.

2283
01:40:42,639 --> 01:40:43,679
>> Commissioner Swanson,

2284
01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:44,880
>> no.

2285
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:46,480
>> Commissioner Jorgensson,

2286
01:40:46,480 --> 01:40:48,239
>> no.

2287
01:40:48,239 --> 01:40:52,080
>> And I vote no on that as well. Um, so

2288
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:59,510
that doesn't pass. We move uh

2289
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,480
I guess just to sending an unfavorable

2290
01:41:02,480 --> 01:41:04,480
recommendation to the council. Yeah,

2291
01:41:04,480 --> 01:41:07,280
thank you. I'm having trouble with

2292
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:08,560
>> I think it's important that everyone

2293
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:09,840
understands that while our

2294
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:13,199
recommendation as a planning commission,

2295
01:41:13,199 --> 01:41:16,480
the vote is no, recommending not to do

2296
01:41:16,480 --> 01:41:20,400
it, city council has full purview to do

2297
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:23,440
whatever it is they think is right. So,

2298
01:41:23,440 --> 01:41:25,679
we it happened when I was on council, it

2299
01:41:25,679 --> 01:41:28,000
still happens today. The council may

2300
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,760
look at things differently than we do,

2301
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:31,679
and they decide on their own that yes,

2302
01:41:31,679 --> 01:41:34,080
they're going to approve this. So, um,

2303
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:36,320
you have a recommendation from planning

2304
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:38,400
commission and then city council will

2305
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:43,030
make that final determination.

2306
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:46,480
Thank you, Commissioner Swanson.

2307
01:41:46,480 --> 01:41:50,000
All right, with that

2308
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:53,360
taken care of, let's move to item number

2309
01:41:53,360 --> 01:42:00,229
seven, zoning map amendment 2026-05-3425

2310
01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:03,280
North Mountain Road. reszone property

2311
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:08,000
from mixed zones including R110, R112.5,

2312
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:10,560
and HP3 residential, which is the

2313
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:14,400
majority of the piece to HP2

2314
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:17,600
hillside protection. This is a public

2315
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,709
hearing.

2316
01:42:20,719 --> 01:42:25,199
» Uh, what did I say? Oh, two HP2

2317
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:27,760
>> HP2 hillside protection. No problem.

2318
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:29,440
>> Um, this is a public hearing and work

2319
01:42:29,440 --> 01:42:31,040
session. We will be hearing from Scott

2320
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:33,119
Hess, but at the request of the

2321
01:42:33,119 --> 01:42:35,360
applicant, um, no mailers were sent out,

2322
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:36,800
so we will hear this again at a

2323
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:39,440
different public hearing. Uh, presenter

2324
01:42:39,440 --> 01:42:40,960
Scott Hes, correct me if I'm wrong

2325
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:41,440
there?

2326
01:42:41,440 --> 01:42:44,159
>> Nope, that's correct. We we have spoken

2327
01:42:44,159 --> 01:42:46,159
staff has spoken with the applicant uh

2328
01:42:46,159 --> 01:42:48,000
several times about the concept plan

2329
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:49,600
about the geotechnical work that would

2330
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:51,679
need to be done and at the applicant's

2331
01:42:51,679 --> 01:42:54,159
request they wanted a work session with

2332
01:42:54,159 --> 01:42:56,159
the planning commission but in order to

2333
01:42:56,159 --> 01:42:58,639
meet the state's 10day public notice

2334
01:42:58,639 --> 01:43:00,960
period time frame we had already posted

2335
01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:02,800
the public hearing notice as part of the

2336
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:05,119
applied or the application the paid for

2337
01:43:05,119 --> 01:43:07,600
application but because no mailers were

2338
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:09,600
sent to property owners within 300 ft of

2339
01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:12,320
this area there's no decision or

2340
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:14,239
recommendation that can be rendered by

2341
01:43:14,239 --> 01:43:15,520
the planning commission tonight. So,

2342
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:18,000
we'll look at this as a work session and

2343
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:20,239
we'll talk through some of the nuances.

2344
01:43:20,239 --> 01:43:23,040
So, this property on the southern side

2345
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:26,880
touches 1050 East and Mountain Road and

2346
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:29,199
then on the north end it's it touches

2347
01:43:29,199 --> 01:43:31,440
Michelle Lane that comes out of the

2348
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:33,520
southern end of the cove. So, it's a

2349
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:35,840
significant sized piece of property from

2350
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:39,040
north to south. Uh on the south end near

2351
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:41,920
1050, there's a sliver of property that

2352
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:45,440
is zoned 10,000 square foot lot uh

2353
01:43:45,440 --> 01:43:48,320
effectively quarter acre zoning R110.

2354
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:49,840
There's another little sliver above it

2355
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:52,719
that's R12 which is not quite a third of

2356
01:43:52,719 --> 01:43:55,360
an acre lot. And then the rest of it is

2357
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:58,320
hillside protection 3 which requires two

2358
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:01,920
acres per lot. Um, this is an area of

2359
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:04,080
the city that was identified in our

2360
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:06,560
1990,

2361
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:09,440
I think seven, I think 1997, the

2362
01:44:09,440 --> 01:44:12,239
hillside protection zone area. And if

2363
01:44:12,239 --> 01:44:13,760
you think of North Ogden kind of like

2364
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:16,960
the crook of an elbow, that property or

2365
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,679
that mountain side that faces west, um,

2366
01:44:19,679 --> 01:44:21,920
I learned from a previous city engineer

2367
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:24,800
is a historic aluvial fan. So, it's

2368
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:26,400
essentially a giant landslide that

2369
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:29,360
happened however many, you know, orders

2370
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:31,679
of magnitude years ago. And you can see

2371
01:44:31,679 --> 01:44:34,159
it when you're driving in from I-15 down

2372
01:44:34,159 --> 01:44:36,480
2700 north. You can once you realize

2373
01:44:36,480 --> 01:44:38,400
what that geological, you know,

2374
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:40,880
structure is, you can visually see that

2375
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:45,119
hillside um landslide. And because of

2376
01:44:45,119 --> 01:44:48,560
that, that whole area of the city was

2377
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:52,080
downzoned to two acre lots as in a way

2378
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,560
to protect the public interest, protect

2379
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:57,119
those structures, protect the city, uh

2380
01:44:57,119 --> 01:44:59,840
limit liability, not put so many hill

2381
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:01,600
houses up on the hill that would be at

2382
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:04,560
risk. And in some of those areas, we

2383
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:06,320
estimate that you may be able to find

2384
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:08,480
the fault line, but they could be it

2385
01:45:08,480 --> 01:45:10,159
could be 100 feet deep. We don't really

2386
01:45:10,159 --> 01:45:11,760
know where the fault line falls under

2387
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:15,360
this massive hillside. So staff's

2388
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:17,920
concern with the development proposal as

2389
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:19,760
it was proposed or the reason as it was

2390
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:22,400
proposed is we just simply don't have

2391
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,639
enough information to make an informed

2392
01:45:24,639 --> 01:45:27,440
decision on whether or not this property

2393
01:45:27,440 --> 01:45:30,639
in particular is more similar to the

2394
01:45:30,639 --> 01:45:33,440
cove which is hillside HP2 hillside

2395
01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:35,760
protection 2. And while the cove was

2396
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:37,920
developed with really large lots, its

2397
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:40,400
underlying zoning is a third of an acre

2398
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:43,520
lot. So if you look at Jordan Park, the

2399
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,280
new subdivision that continues Mountain

2400
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:47,840
Road, that's more similar to this

2401
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,880
development than what the Cove would be.

2402
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:52,639
And if you look at the two subdivisions

2403
01:45:52,639 --> 01:45:55,199
that happened immediately north of this

2404
01:45:55,199 --> 01:45:57,360
one, which is Wasach Hills and Hidden

2405
01:45:57,360 --> 01:45:59,440
Hills, those have both been developed

2406
01:45:59,440 --> 01:46:01,840
under Hillside Protection 3 with at

2407
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:05,280
least 2 acre kind of estate lots

2408
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:07,840
essentially. So you're sandwiched

2409
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:09,119
between some really interesting

2410
01:46:09,119 --> 01:46:12,480
development here, but staff, at least

2411
01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:13,760
planning staff, hasn't seen enough

2412
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:16,080
geotechnical work to know whether or not

2413
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,960
this is good, bad, or indifferent. Um,

2414
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:20,960
and then we're also concerned about, you

2415
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:23,520
know, road steepness and and other

2416
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:25,760
things. So, for that reason, we don't

2417
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:27,760
have a recommendation. It's just hold

2418
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:29,679
the public hearing. We have the

2419
01:46:29,679 --> 01:46:31,360
applicant representative here to

2420
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,199
represent the project. And then we're

2421
01:46:33,199 --> 01:46:34,880
happy to answer questions. And way in

2422
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:37,199
the back, we have our city engineer Tim

2423
01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:39,040
here as well. Um, if we have any

2424
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:42,960
questions for engineering

2425
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:46,639
with that, I'll take any questions.

2426
01:46:46,639 --> 01:46:50,239
Can we require all of that to answer the

2427
01:46:50,239 --> 01:46:52,320
concerns of staff and planning?

2428
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:54,560
>> It is required. So the hillside the HP

2429
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:57,440
zones generally and we we drew a line.

2430
01:46:57,440 --> 01:47:01,440
We I mean the the study here in 1997

2431
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:03,760
essentially drew a line of this point

2432
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:06,159
north said this area is more

2433
01:47:06,159 --> 01:47:08,320
geologically sensitive than the areas

2434
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:12,480
south. And so it provides a wide variety

2435
01:47:12,480 --> 01:47:14,880
of geologic studies that we can require

2436
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:18,159
as staff to best under you understand

2437
01:47:18,159 --> 01:47:20,239
what's going on on the property to

2438
01:47:20,239 --> 01:47:21,520
create safety for everybody.

2439
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:24,880
>> So because so because staff doesn't have

2440
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:27,280
a recommendation and we don't have

2441
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:31,119
enough information to really make a wise

2442
01:47:31,119 --> 01:47:34,790
recommendation.

2443
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:36,880
We would we can we can request

2444
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:38,400
additional

2445
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:41,280
>> so that we can make a better decision

2446
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:43,520
>> and we have and since we had posted the

2447
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:45,360
public notice the application has been

2448
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:47,600
applied for we have an applicant who's

2449
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:49,920
supplied information. Tonight is really

2450
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:52,480
a discussion between the applicant

2451
01:47:52,480 --> 01:47:56,080
>> and yourselves and thinking about what

2452
01:47:56,080 --> 01:47:58,239
are the risks to be mitigated? What

2453
01:47:58,239 --> 01:47:59,920
information would you like to see? you

2454
01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:01,679
know, we we know on that side the

2455
01:48:01,679 --> 01:48:03,360
geologic studies that we'll look at,

2456
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:05,199
wildlife studies, the wildland urban

2457
01:48:05,199 --> 01:48:07,920
interface. Um, so there are some things

2458
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:10,000
that as the planning commission you

2459
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:11,679
could or should consider, which are

2460
01:48:11,679 --> 01:48:14,320
things like maxim maximizing zoning

2461
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:18,480
density or um there are often

2462
01:48:18,480 --> 01:48:21,360
tradeoffs between the impacts of

2463
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:24,320
increased zoning and what we might be

2464
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:26,320
like losing I want to say or you know

2465
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:28,480
trail connectivity or open space or

2466
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:30,400
other things. So, there's bits of the

2467
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:32,000
conversation the planning commission

2468
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,159
should and could have, but I would say

2469
01:48:34,159 --> 01:48:36,080
that you're really waiting until you

2470
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:38,239
have a more clear geologic picture

2471
01:48:38,239 --> 01:48:40,639
before staff would recommend that

2472
01:48:40,639 --> 01:48:41,679
planning commission make a

2473
01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:43,760
recommendation to the city council.

2474
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:47,840
>> Okay. And the current zoning is the

2475
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,080
hillside protected too.

2476
01:48:50,080 --> 01:48:50,960
>> HP3.

2477
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,199
Okay. And then there's a sliver

2478
01:48:53,199 --> 01:48:55,760
that's kind of zoned odd at the B at the

2479
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:57,679
southern portion.

2480
01:48:57,679 --> 01:48:58,719
>> Yep.

2481
01:48:58,719 --> 01:49:01,600
It's hard to I mean John might be able

2482
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:03,679
to pull it up but yeah there was just

2483
01:49:03,679 --> 01:49:04,800
like the

2484
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:06,480
>> you could you could build a handful of

2485
01:49:06,480 --> 01:49:08,480
lots on that southern side with mountain

2486
01:49:08,480 --> 01:49:10,560
road coming down through

2487
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:12,400
>> um but you wouldn't you wouldn't be able

2488
01:49:12,400 --> 01:49:14,880
to do a whole lot going north up through

2489
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:16,960
the canson property. Okay.

2490
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:17,840
>> Okay.

2491
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:21,199
>> Scott, does this does this property have

2492
01:49:21,199 --> 01:49:24,800
uh water rights for secondary water?

2493
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:26,560
>> That's a good question. So that's I mean

2494
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:29,760
we have applicant representative

2495
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:32,000
>> but we don't have a again we don't have

2496
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:34,000
a subdivision application. So this is a

2497
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,960
reszone um which would you know preede

2498
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:38,320
any of those

2499
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:40,719
>> will serve letters and other other items

2500
01:49:40,719 --> 01:49:42,000
as part of a subdivision.

2501
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:45,119
>> Do we have a a time scheduled for this

2502
01:49:45,119 --> 01:49:46,719
work session?

2503
01:49:46,719 --> 01:49:48,719
>> We don't have a time limit I guess. And

2504
01:49:48,719 --> 01:49:50,000
you can we can settle.

2505
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:53,119
>> No, I met with the city council. I mean,

2506
01:49:53,119 --> 01:49:55,119
tonight I mean tonight is effectively a

2507
01:49:55,119 --> 01:49:57,440
work session. So, there's two ways the

2508
01:49:57,440 --> 01:49:59,679
planning commission could go. One is you

2509
01:49:59,679 --> 01:50:04,239
could uh postpone this item to a future

2510
01:50:04,239 --> 01:50:07,840
date meeting, but staff felt it's you

2511
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:09,520
have enough information to have a

2512
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:11,199
discussion with the the applicant

2513
01:50:11,199 --> 01:50:13,679
representative. you know, they've waited

2514
01:50:13,679 --> 01:50:15,440
almost two hours. So, I feel like it's

2515
01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:16,880
worthwhile to have that conversation

2516
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:19,040
with them, but it's just it won't be a

2517
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:20,480
work session between city council and

2518
01:50:20,480 --> 01:50:22,400
planning commission. It's just that you

2519
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:24,320
cannot make a recommendation based on

2520
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:26,560
public hearing notice requirements. So,

2521
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:28,480
tonight is a discussion.

2522
01:50:28,480 --> 01:50:31,360
>> And just one more question.

2523
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:34,719
You know, it it wasn't presented.

2524
01:50:34,719 --> 01:50:37,199
It's not rude for us to say, you know,

2525
01:50:37,199 --> 01:50:39,040
there's no back and forth, right, on the

2526
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:42,320
pre on the previous topic. It was it was

2527
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:44,159
seen as we were being rude, but that's

2528
01:50:44,159 --> 01:50:46,080
sort of the general rule of no back and

2529
01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:47,040
forth.

2530
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:50,320
>> Does it seem

2531
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:52,719
appropriate that this might be a back

2532
01:50:52,719 --> 01:50:53,679
and forth?

2533
01:50:53,679 --> 01:50:55,119
>> Well, when you're when you have an

2534
01:50:55,119 --> 01:50:56,800
applicant and the planning commission,

2535
01:50:56,800 --> 01:50:59,119
it is a back and forth conversation that

2536
01:50:59,119 --> 01:51:00,800
I guess the traditional like Robert's

2537
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:02,880
rules would say that during a public

2538
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:04,400
comment period,

2539
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:06,320
>> they are making public comment, but it

2540
01:51:06,320 --> 01:51:08,880
isn't a dialogue between the

2541
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:10,480
>> I mean, I'm playing a little dumb. I

2542
01:51:10,480 --> 01:51:12,800
just it wasn't rude before and I wanted

2543
01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:13,360
to

2544
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:15,119
>> put that on the record and then lead

2545
01:51:15,119 --> 01:51:16,800
into that there's going to be a back and

2546
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:19,360
forth and for the reasons that you

2547
01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:20,719
stated.

2548
01:51:20,719 --> 01:51:22,400
>> So there isn't a five minute limit to

2549
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:23,840
our discussion.

2550
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:29,189
>> Whatever you want that depends on

2551
01:51:29,199 --> 01:51:33,750
» I want pizza. Scott

2552
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:35,119
eat dinner.

2553
01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:36,239
>> I have a question.

2554
01:51:36,239 --> 01:51:39,440
>> Yes. for the applicant if you want to

2555
01:51:39,440 --> 01:51:40,880
come to the mic.

2556
01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:42,000
>> Um, we

2557
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:43,840
>> can we get your name?

2558
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:45,760
>> Should we open Wait a minute. Should we

2559
01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:47,440
open public hearing if we're gonna have

2560
01:51:47,440 --> 01:51:49,040
the applicant or it's not?

2561
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:49,440
>> It is.

2562
01:51:49,440 --> 01:51:51,920
>> It has to be public hearing because we

2563
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:54,560
posted it as well. It just can't be the

2564
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:56,880
decision because we didn't. It's like a

2565
01:51:56,880 --> 01:51:57,760
>> 50% of the

2566
01:51:57,760 --> 01:51:59,440
>> We are holding the public hearing. We're

2567
01:51:59,440 --> 01:52:02,080
not making the decation.

2568
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:02,400
>> Okay.

2569
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:04,480
>> Right. And we will hold another one.

2570
01:52:04,480 --> 01:52:07,280
>> Okay. So, let's officially open the

2571
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:08,239
public hearing.

2572
01:52:08,239 --> 01:52:09,119
>> Yes.

2573
01:52:09,119 --> 01:52:12,000
>> And invite the applicant up.

2574
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:14,320
>> Thanks, Scott. Um, my name is Hunter

2575
01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:16,960
Murray. I represent the Holland Group

2576
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:19,199
and we're from Kisville.

2577
01:52:19,199 --> 01:52:21,520
>> Uh,

2578
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:23,679
yeah. So I think that sorry if we rocked

2579
01:52:23,679 --> 01:52:25,520
the boat in any way with our process and

2580
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:26,960
everything but we've had a couple

2581
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:29,440
internal meetings with um the planning

2582
01:52:29,440 --> 01:52:32,400
department as well as engineering and

2583
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:35,119
the the thought and the reasoning behind

2584
01:52:35,119 --> 01:52:37,760
having more of this open discussion

2585
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:41,119
verse um maybe just simply presenting it

2586
01:52:41,119 --> 01:52:43,440
and going straight to a vote was exactly

2587
01:52:43,440 --> 01:52:45,040
what Scott had mentioned and I'm sure

2588
01:52:45,040 --> 01:52:46,560
we'll talk a little bit about tonight

2589
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:49,119
and that's that with this being on the

2590
01:52:49,119 --> 01:52:50,960
hillside there's going to be geological

2591
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:54,320
multle questions and multiple different

2592
01:52:54,320 --> 01:52:57,679
details that we are ironing out as we

2593
01:52:57,679 --> 01:52:59,599
go. And so the thought behind this

2594
01:52:59,599 --> 01:53:03,199
meeting was really to say assuming that

2595
01:53:03,199 --> 01:53:05,920
those geological questions are resolved

2596
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:09,679
and they pass and they look good. Um can

2597
01:53:09,679 --> 01:53:13,840
we have an open conversation about the

2598
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:15,360
reason,

2599
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:18,000
the site plan, the density, things of

2600
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:22,400
that sort? Um, when the Canudson's

2601
01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:25,119
showed me this land years ago,

2602
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:26,800
immediately fell in love with this

2603
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,119
piece. I mean, I think that the the

2604
01:53:29,119 --> 01:53:32,080
area, the views,

2605
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:33,760
everything about the surrounding

2606
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:36,000
subdivisions, this is a really, really

2607
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:38,159
special piece that I think we're as

2608
01:53:38,159 --> 01:53:40,159
developers holding really close to us.

2609
01:53:40,159 --> 01:53:42,880
And we're here to make it right. we we

2610
01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:44,719
want to make this project right and we

2611
01:53:44,719 --> 01:53:47,599
really value your input and your

2612
01:53:47,599 --> 01:53:49,760
comments and this discussion to to

2613
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:52,239
accomplish that. So that was the purpose

2614
01:53:52,239 --> 01:53:55,199
was to

2615
01:53:55,199 --> 01:53:57,199
converse and hear from one another about

2616
01:53:57,199 --> 01:54:00,719
what we're trying to accomplish on this piece.

2617
01:54:00,719 --> 01:54:05,119
>> What uh what kind of geological studies

2618
01:54:05,119 --> 01:54:08,880
are you working on to answer your

2619
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:11,360
questions? So, right now we've done, you

2620
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:13,360
know, our standard phase ones and and

2621
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:16,480
hired CMT to do our geological um

2622
01:54:16,480 --> 01:54:18,880
engineering. The additional things that

2623
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:21,679
we are working through um to Scott's

2624
01:54:21,679 --> 01:54:25,520
point are the fault line as well as the

2625
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:29,040
aluvial fan. Um,

2626
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:34,000
from a quick analysis that CMT, our our

2627
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:37,920
geotech engineers did, um, this land is

2628
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:42,719
outside of both the statemapped areas of

2629
01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:45,840
concern with the fault line. It's also

2630
01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:49,040
out of the areas of concern with the

2631
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:51,520
state approved maps for the aluvial fan.

2632
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:55,760
Now, we understand that just because

2633
01:54:55,760 --> 01:54:58,000
it's outside of that area doesn't mean

2634
01:54:58,000 --> 01:55:00,960
that we don't need to still do some

2635
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:02,639
additional testing to make sure. I think

2636
01:55:02,639 --> 01:55:04,960
we can acknowledge that sometimes those

2637
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:07,040
maps can be a little generic and maybe

2638
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:10,960
not very precise. And so our goal when

2639
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:14,000
it comes to um the engineering details

2640
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:18,320
is to um make sure that we can have that

2641
01:55:18,320 --> 01:55:20,480
CMT provides a clear answer for that

2642
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:23,119
fault line and that aluvial fan and more

2643
01:55:23,119 --> 01:55:26,080
importantly working closely with Tim um

2644
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:27,920
and Scott and everyone involved at the

2645
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:30,400
city to make sure that um they've seen

2646
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:32,320
eyes on it and they they concur with

2647
01:55:32,320 --> 01:55:36,639
what our engineers have have found. And

2648
01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:39,360
with CMT and the is it just like pit

2649
01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:41,119
testing is that are they

2650
01:55:41,119 --> 01:55:42,880
>> that's what we're doing right now. Yes.

2651
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:46,960
>> And just an estimate on the north south

2652
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:49,599
portion you know that length

2653
01:55:49,599 --> 01:55:52,400
you know how many how many test pits are

2654
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:53,840
you have you done? How many are you

2655
01:55:53,840 --> 01:55:55,280
planning? Cuz

2656
01:55:55,280 --> 01:55:59,679
>> so I I believe we're north of I want to

2657
01:55:59,679 --> 01:56:01,520
say we're north of 12. I think we're

2658
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:04,159
probably closer to 18 or 20. I don't

2659
01:56:04,159 --> 01:56:07,760
have the exact number. Um, we had that

2660
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:09,679
discussion with CMT and and I believe

2661
01:56:09,679 --> 01:56:12,480
we're again north of 12, but probably in

2662
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:14,880
that 18 to 20 range throughout this

2663
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:16,960
project

2664
01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:18,719
>> in in this process through the

2665
01:56:18,719 --> 01:56:21,040
discussion. I'm not an engineer by any

2666
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:23,280
stretch. Had a dream once that I was and

2667
01:56:23,280 --> 01:56:26,000
it was the worst nightmare of my life.

2668
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:28,560
But so for me, I'm going to have to rely

2669
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:30,960
on the technical abilities and knowledge

2670
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:33,679
of engineers who do this for a living.

2671
01:56:33,679 --> 01:56:36,320
There was a reason back in 1997 that

2672
01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:39,280
this area was designated as HP3.

2673
01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:39,679
>> Yeah.

2674
01:56:39,679 --> 01:56:42,719
>> Um because of the aluvial fan because of

2675
01:56:42,719 --> 01:56:45,760
the the fault line remnants that run off

2676
01:56:45,760 --> 01:56:49,360
through this area. Um, I mean, a little

2677
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,239
bit further east of this is a a very

2678
01:56:52,239 --> 01:56:54,880
large landslide that came down roughly

2679
01:56:54,880 --> 01:57:00,000
12,000 years ago. Um, it's um,

2680
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:04,159
so for me, I'm going to have to see some

2681
01:57:04,159 --> 01:57:06,880
good information that says this is safe

2682
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:09,840
to change it from an HP3. It It got made

2683
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:11,599
HP3 for a reason.

2684
01:57:11,599 --> 01:57:14,320
>> Yeah. Um, for me, I'm gonna have to see

2685
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:18,320
some rely on Tim on Lauren with your

2686
01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:21,679
engineering background. Um,

2687
01:57:21,679 --> 01:57:25,599
with your design knowledge,

2688
01:57:25,599 --> 01:57:28,480
right now I would say can't do it

2689
01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:30,560
because I haven't seen anything that

2690
01:57:30,560 --> 01:57:33,119
says this is this is what the engineers

2691
01:57:33,119 --> 01:57:34,960
said previously. This is why we

2692
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:37,840
designated it this way and this is why

2693
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:40,400
we're now saying it's safe.

2694
01:57:40,400 --> 01:57:41,840
>> Yeah. Does that make sense?

2695
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:43,440
>> Yeah. And I think Commissioner Swanson,

2696
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:45,599
we're in the same boat as you. I don't

2697
01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:50,480
claim to be an engineer. And so I I we heavily rely on those third party

2698
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:52,080
companies to provide us with that

2699
01:57:52,080 --> 01:57:54,080
information. I think, you know,

2700
01:57:54,080 --> 01:57:59,119
sometimes when 30 years ago when you're mapping out areas of

2701
01:57:59,119 --> 01:58:02,080
concern, did we did this piece draw the

2702
01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:03,920
short end of the stick, so to speak, and

2703
01:58:03,920 --> 01:58:06,400
the line just went one way when it could

2704
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:09,199
have gone another? Maybe. or maybe this

2705
01:58:09,199 --> 01:58:11,440
land has some really big concerns that

2706
01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:14,320
we're going to discover as we finish up

2707
01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:17,360
our geological testing. And so, um, I

2708
01:58:17,360 --> 01:58:19,679
think from the initial feedback from our

2709
01:58:19,679 --> 01:58:22,719
engineers is that it is looking really

2710
01:58:22,719 --> 01:58:26,400
positive. Um, with that being said, we

2711
01:58:26,400 --> 01:58:29,920
absolutely acknowledge that

2712
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:32,480
the process to make sure everyone feels

2713
01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:34,639
good is to make sure that our

2714
01:58:34,639 --> 01:58:36,960
engineering team has signed off on it

2715
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:38,480
and

2716
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:40,639
concurrently or excuse me, at the same

2717
01:58:40,639 --> 01:58:43,760
time, uh,

2718
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:46,000
North Ogden City has also signed off on

2719
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:47,840
it. So, we want to make sure that we're

2720
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:49,920
essentially comparing notes and both

2721
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:53,760
parties feel good before we um can

2722
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:56,639
really make any big statements, I guess,

2723
01:58:56,639 --> 01:58:57,199
on that.

2724
01:58:57,199 --> 01:59:01,280
>> And Commissioner Swanson, I think, too,

2725
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:04,560
just just with your experience, I I do

2726
01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:07,040
think there is some general dialogue

2727
01:59:07,040 --> 01:59:09,280
taking away the the information that is

2728
01:59:09,280 --> 01:59:11,760
not there. Just zooming back out, we

2729
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:14,639
didn't hear about aluvial fans

2730
01:59:14,639 --> 01:59:19,040
to voice an opinion just purely based on on just the reszone.

2731
01:59:19,040 --> 01:59:21,679
>> I could I think considering even if it's

2732
01:59:21,679 --> 01:59:24,800
C, you know, even if it's HP3,

2733
01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:27,920
um the same studies occur, the same

2734
01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:30,159
mitigated risks occur. So, I I guess

2735
01:59:30,159 --> 01:59:31,760
what I'm saying is it doesn't just have

2736
01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:33,920
to be, you know, people that, you know,

2737
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:37,280
have an opinion or knowledge of,

2738
01:59:37,280 --> 01:59:40,159
you know, aluvial fans and and stuff

2739
01:59:40,159 --> 01:59:42,320
like that, but I do think you have a

2740
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:44,880
valuable valuable opinion as a resident

2741
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:47,040
of North Ogden and and what you think

2742
01:59:47,040 --> 01:59:49,760
the just the reszone in general.

2743
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:53,760
>> I I appreciate that. And and I I was I I

2744
01:59:53,760 --> 01:59:56,320
was going to say that the the overall

2745
01:59:56,320 --> 01:59:58,320
layout, the overall plan I used to live

2746
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:02,320
just uh right on 3,300 just just below

2747
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:04,400
where this is going to be. I've spent a

2748
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,080
lot of time in these hills as you have,

2749
02:00:06,080 --> 02:00:07,760
Lauren, and I think probably everybody

2750
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:10,080
up here, so I know this area very well.

2751
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:15,599
Um I generally like the proposal. Um I I

2752
02:00:15,599 --> 02:00:20,960
love the larger lots to the east. Um

2753
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:23,760
If it came back

2754
02:00:23,760 --> 02:00:27,679
that from a geologic standpoint that we

2755
02:00:27,679 --> 02:00:30,320
were that we were okay, I would give

2756
02:00:30,320 --> 02:00:34,239
serious consideration to this. Um

2757
02:00:34,239 --> 02:00:35,679
I I think it would be a beautiful

2758
02:00:35,679 --> 02:00:37,280
neighborhood. It's it's a it's a great

2759
02:00:37,280 --> 02:00:41,040
piece of land. Um, but that that's my

2760
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:44,560
only hold up at at this point is

2761
02:00:44,560 --> 02:00:46,719
finding that being presented with

2762
02:00:46,719 --> 02:00:49,520
evidence that says this is why you can

2763
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:51,040
believe what we're saying versus what

2764
02:00:51,040 --> 02:00:54,080
the engineers in 1997 said.

2765
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:56,159
>> Well, and I think labeling it as a as an

2766
02:00:56,159 --> 02:01:02,239
area of of concern when they when they do this testing.

2767
02:01:02,239 --> 02:01:05,520
>> Yeah. it becomes a long report and it

2768
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:07,840
actually has recommendations for like

2769
02:01:07,840 --> 02:01:09,199
structural engineers.

2770
02:01:09,199 --> 02:01:09,520
>> Sure.

2771
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:10,800
>> You know, pounds per square foot,

2772
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:13,599
bearing capacity, some areas with peers

2773
02:01:13,599 --> 02:01:17,440
or whatnot. So, you know, I I don't know

2774
02:01:17,440 --> 02:01:19,920
how much of an impediment it is in the

2775
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:22,719
overall uh feasibility of the project,

2776
02:01:22,719 --> 02:01:25,760
what it's likely. Well, I think you can

2777
02:01:25,760 --> 02:01:30,080
build homes here any, you know, in any

2778
02:01:30,080 --> 02:01:33,360
way that is recommended by the

2779
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:35,840
geological engineer, the geotechnical

2780
02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:39,040
engineer on this. So, I don't know how,

2781
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:40,320
you know, there's a chance that it's

2782
02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:42,960
just not

2783
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:46,320
affordable to mitigate those risks.

2784
02:01:46,320 --> 02:01:48,880
>> Right. Right. Yeah.

2785
02:01:48,880 --> 02:01:52,159
One thing that I want to bring up, we've

2786
02:01:52,159 --> 02:01:54,000
been talking a lot of general plan stuff

2787
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,080
in previous meetings and and one of the

2788
02:01:56,080 --> 02:01:58,480
concerns was that in the the last time

2789
02:01:58,480 --> 02:01:59,920
the general plan was put together is

2790
02:01:59,920 --> 02:02:01,760
building up the mountain side. People

2791
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,239
were against it in 2015.

2792
02:02:04,239 --> 02:02:08,800
So we are putting if if this geological

2793
02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:11,280
study comes back and says it's good, one

2794
02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:13,040
thing we have to consider is we are now

2795
02:02:13,040 --> 02:02:15,920
building they're they're it's more dense

2796
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:17,679
than what was than what is in the

2797
02:02:17,679 --> 02:02:19,199
previous general plan layout.

2798
02:02:19,199 --> 02:02:19,599
>> Yeah,

2799
02:02:19,599 --> 02:02:23,040
>> we are we are it's going what from if it

2800
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:26,080
was HP3 it's 15 homes to 71 I think is

2801
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:28,480
what I saw in the staff report. So it is

2802
02:02:28,480 --> 02:02:30,880
quite a bit denser. They're still very

2803
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:33,599
big lots, but it's, you know, we have to

2804
02:02:33,599 --> 02:02:34,560
make sure we take that into

2805
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:36,159
consideration what people were seeing on

2806
02:02:36,159 --> 02:02:38,400
the general plan from 2015 to now. And

2807
02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:40,639
then they're like then all a sudden we

2808
02:02:40,639 --> 02:02:43,280
reszone this to HP2 if it if it passes

2809
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:47,199
geological survey. So just something we need to think about as this

2810
02:02:47,199 --> 02:02:50,800
moves forward. And to that point, a

2811
02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:54,560
question for the applicant is

2812
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:57,280
does this pencil at all as HP3 with

2813
02:02:57,280 --> 02:03:00,159
estate laws, things like that? Uh, it

2814
02:03:00,159 --> 02:03:04,400
would not be our intent to do it. Um,

2815
02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:08,239
yes, there's there's that component. Um,

2816
02:03:08,239 --> 02:03:10,480
I think the

2817
02:03:10,480 --> 02:03:12,000
I guess the answer is no. That would not

2818
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:15,760
be our intent to to do that. And not

2819
02:03:15,760 --> 02:03:17,280
that this matters, but it was somewhat

2820
02:03:17,280 --> 02:03:20,400
interesting is is you know pole patch up

2821
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:24,960
there north Pleasant View. It was it was

2822
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:29,199
developed as those large five acre lots,

2823
02:03:29,199 --> 02:03:33,040
but every single lot up there is more or

2824
02:03:33,040 --> 02:03:35,360
less in an aluvial fan. And every single

2825
02:03:35,360 --> 02:03:42,880
lot, goes and does this study and it's on the homeowner and the or the

2826
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:45,280
land owner, I guess, they have to go do

2827
02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:47,199
these same studies and go through the

2828
02:03:47,199 --> 02:03:49,760
same process like individually. It's

2829
02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:53,440
just an interesting thing. It it

2830
02:03:53,440 --> 02:03:56,639
in my opinion it's an incumbrance on on

2831
02:03:56,639 --> 02:03:59,520
the land owner. It becomes

2832
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:02,000
it just becomes a roadblock and and and

2833
02:04:02,000 --> 02:04:05,040
nothing is really ever recommended

2834
02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:08,000
that's all that crazy to do. Most of it

2835
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:10,400
is like on-site excavation. You keep you

2836
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:12,719
know home I had a home up there that

2837
02:04:12,719 --> 02:04:14,080
they didn't want a basement. Well, they

2838
02:04:14,080 --> 02:04:16,480
got a 12-footer, you know, it just they

2839
02:04:16,480 --> 02:04:20,000
had to keep digging and digging and get, you know, so I think

2840
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:24,480
there is a there's a benefit to future

2841
02:04:24,480 --> 02:04:26,719
residents or or residents that would

2842
02:04:26,719 --> 02:04:28,239
live here is that there would be a

2843
02:04:28,239 --> 02:04:30,960
blanket geotechnical report for the

2844
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:33,920
development with guidelines on how to do

2845
02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:36,960
that. Again, just we're hearing a lot

2846
02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:39,840
about these reports and it's kind of

2847
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:42,719
made um

2848
02:04:42,719 --> 02:04:45,199
development up there in Pole Patch a

2849
02:04:45,199 --> 02:04:47,760
little sporadic and they've had to

2850
02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:50,719
really to not encumber the private

2851
02:04:50,719 --> 02:04:53,119
property rights of the land owners.

2852
02:04:53,119 --> 02:04:56,719
Pleasant View City has had to make some

2853
02:04:56,719 --> 02:04:58,880
pretty big concessions to their own

2854
02:04:58,880 --> 02:05:02,480
zoning to allow people to build in

2855
02:05:02,480 --> 02:05:05,360
certain areas of their own property

2856
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:09,750
based on these reports

2857
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:12,400
and just just like comments not to like

2858
02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:14,000
say that it wouldn't get like that we

2859
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:15,679
would re I would recommend either way.

2860
02:05:15,679 --> 02:05:18,880
just more if if to be prepared that

2861
02:05:18,880 --> 02:05:20,480
residents may come and and voice

2862
02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:22,400
opinion, have some kind of comment

2863
02:05:22,400 --> 02:05:23,040
towards it.

2864
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:25,840
>> And I absolutely see that um from the

2865
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:30,000
current zoning of essentially 15 uh lots

2866
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:33,360
to what we're working on right now is an

2867
02:05:33,360 --> 02:05:36,480
increase. Our our

2868
02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:38,320
original

2869
02:05:38,320 --> 02:05:41,440
thought or assumption with the HP3 was

2870
02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:44,080
that it was designed to protect the

2871
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:47,840
property so that if if the geotechnical

2872
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:50,639
>> passes, there's a further conversation

2873
02:05:50,639 --> 02:05:52,639
to maybe hold a little bit. And so I

2874
02:05:52,639 --> 02:05:55,920
think um we're trying to find that fine

2875
02:05:55,920 --> 02:05:58,480
line of of

2876
02:05:58,480 --> 02:06:01,040
let's make sure the geotech looks good

2877
02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:03,760
and then and then assuming it does, how

2878
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:06,080
do we work with the city to go provide a

2879
02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:09,520
really nice, clean, special subdivision

2880
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:11,599
that I think everyone is is happy and

2881
02:06:11,599 --> 02:06:15,280
can take pride in. And so um no, I I

2882
02:06:15,280 --> 02:06:17,040
appreciate the comment. Absolutely. One

2883
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:17,520
great

2884
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:19,840
>> one other thing that I

2885
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:22,239
>> I'm I'm a big nature guy. There are you

2886
02:06:22,239 --> 02:06:24,320
can see them on on your map right here.

2887
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:26,080
All the trails that go through it.

2888
02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:28,960
>> At least having a way to maintain that

2889
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:30,960
trail connectivity after the fact.

2890
02:06:30,960 --> 02:06:31,599
>> Yes.

2891
02:06:31,599 --> 02:06:32,000
>> Whether

2892
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:34,639
>> I think that would be

2893
02:06:34,639 --> 02:06:35,920
>> that would work really well in your

2894
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:36,560
favor if

2895
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:38,800
>> the public would likely enjoy that a

2896
02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:39,040
lot.

2897
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:40,639
>> I I think I think you're absolutely

2898
02:06:40,639 --> 02:06:42,159
right. I didn't see any green space

2899
02:06:42,159 --> 02:06:46,079
here. Um, unless you count the detention

2900
02:06:46,079 --> 02:06:49,440
pond. Um, and I didn't see any any

2901
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:51,280
allocation for the trail system that's

2902
02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:53,599
there. I I get it. It's on private

2903
02:06:53,599 --> 02:06:55,599
property, but

2904
02:06:55,599 --> 02:06:57,040
>> you know, it's something that we could

2905
02:06:57,040 --> 02:06:57,840
say

2906
02:06:57,840 --> 02:06:59,760
>> they're asking for a reasonzone and

2907
02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:02,639
we're having a work session and,

2908
02:07:02,639 --> 02:07:05,360
>> you know, no green space is, you know,

2909
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:07,280
it's it's a thing there.

2910
02:07:07,280 --> 02:07:09,599
>> But if you retain access

2911
02:07:09,599 --> 02:07:11,599
>> Yeah. to green space, you're giving up

2912
02:07:11,599 --> 02:07:13,440
less land, but you're also setting a

2913
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:15,199
precedent for maybe the next person that

2914
02:07:15,199 --> 02:07:17,040
comes in above them or east.

2915
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:18,800
>> And you know, it there's a lot of trail

2916
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:21,119
connectivity. A green space could be a

2917
02:07:21,119 --> 02:07:22,960
nice place for people to start their

2918
02:07:22,960 --> 02:07:24,960
recreation from, like maybe a little

2919
02:07:24,960 --> 02:07:27,440
park with a parking lot that is open to

2920
02:07:27,440 --> 02:07:30,800
the public to then access those trails.

2921
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:34,079
>> Yeah. I in in some ways I was hesitant.

2922
02:07:34,079 --> 02:07:37,440
we've we've made a lot of um

2923
02:07:37,440 --> 02:07:40,079
internal decisions and assumptions as we

2924
02:07:40,079 --> 02:07:41,920
kind of play around and configure and

2925
02:07:41,920 --> 02:07:43,280
different things like that. And in some

2926
02:07:43,280 --> 02:07:46,239
ways I'm almost hesitant to show this

2927
02:07:46,239 --> 02:07:48,960
because I I just want to let everyone

2928
02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:51,760
know that the trail connectivity for us

2929
02:07:51,760 --> 02:07:54,800
is equally a priority. It's it's not

2930
02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:57,840
reflected on this. Um,

2931
02:07:57,840 --> 02:08:00,320
and that's one reason why I was like,

2932
02:08:00,320 --> 02:08:02,560
"Oh." But, uh, at the same time, I want

2933
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:05,760
to just reflect that we do anticipate to

2934
02:08:05,760 --> 02:08:08,480
make sure that trail connectivity is,

2935
02:08:08,480 --> 02:08:11,119
um, not just in there, but but a big

2936
02:08:11,119 --> 02:08:11,760
focus,

2937
02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:13,280
>> big focus of our project.

2938
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:16,800
>> One other concern that, uh, the city has

2939
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:19,760
is preservation of some of the

2940
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:22,239
vegetation out there.

2941
02:08:22,239 --> 02:08:27,040
And the way I see these lots laid out,

2942
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:29,679
a lot of that's going to be gone. So

2943
02:08:29,679 --> 02:08:32,239
maybe consideration of maybe some

2944
02:08:32,239 --> 02:08:33,840
clustering

2945
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:35,520
so you can preserve some of that

2946
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:37,440
vegetation.

2947
02:08:37,440 --> 02:08:38,960
Um,

2948
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:42,239
another comment regarding the geological

2949
02:08:42,239 --> 02:08:46,400
issues. Uh there's been a lot of better

2950
02:08:46,400 --> 02:08:49,760
understanding since the general plan was

2951
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:53,830
originally

2952
02:08:53,840 --> 02:08:57,760
the our or the uh HP

2953
02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:03,840
3 designation was put in here. Um

2954
02:09:03,840 --> 02:09:07,119
once those uh studies are done, our

2955
02:09:07,119 --> 02:09:10,480
state geologist, the state engineer can

2956
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:13,040
have some input on those because they

2957
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:16,719
have dealt with a lot of the issues

2958
02:09:16,719 --> 02:09:18,800
on various communities across the

2959
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:22,960
Wasatch front. So, um getting him

2960
02:09:22,960 --> 02:09:25,920
involved to maybe do some extra review

2961
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:28,079
on those

2962
02:09:28,079 --> 02:09:32,719
uh may give us a better uh understanding

2963
02:09:32,719 --> 02:09:34,960
of what those

2964
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:38,079
results are are happening there. So,

2965
02:09:38,079 --> 02:09:39,920
>> we we definitely want to compare notes.

2966
02:09:39,920 --> 02:09:42,239
We want to be able to provide our

2967
02:09:42,239 --> 02:09:44,960
findings from who we've hired and and

2968
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:50,560
deliver them to the city and let um we want the city to feel comfortable as

2969
02:09:50,560 --> 02:09:50,960
well.

2970
02:09:50,960 --> 02:09:51,920
>> Yeah, that's

2971
02:09:51,920 --> 02:09:55,040
>> I think I think we this you and the city

2972
02:09:55,040 --> 02:09:56,639
would be in the same boat in the sense

2973
02:09:56,639 --> 02:09:58,800
is no one wants to be on KSL with houses

2974
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:00,400
sliding down the mountain. let's avoid

2975
02:10:00,400 --> 02:10:02,239
that and we're both

2976
02:10:02,239 --> 02:10:04,880
>> kind of, you know, so I think that's

2977
02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:06,480
going to be a big factor. But

2978
02:10:06,480 --> 02:10:07,199
>> definitely

2979
02:10:07,199 --> 02:10:10,880
>> I I would say that with what we've been

2980
02:10:10,880 --> 02:10:13,599
seeing lately, even the I don't think

2981
02:10:13,599 --> 02:10:16,239
the diagram hurt you at all. I actually

2982
02:10:16,239 --> 02:10:18,000
would argue that the previous applicant,

2983
02:10:18,000 --> 02:10:20,960
the diagram really hurt them. That being

2984
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:23,280
said,

2985
02:10:23,280 --> 02:10:26,159
I'm really This is a good s you know,

2986
02:10:26,159 --> 02:10:29,520
we're This is a goodiz lot. Thank you.

2987
02:10:29,520 --> 02:10:34,560
>> size to me this is this is right in the happy medium. It is going to be

2988
02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:36,560
you know you know maybe in the upper

2989
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:39,040
tier of of middle class affordability

2990
02:10:39,040 --> 02:10:41,119
but we don't see it we haven't seen a

2991
02:10:41,119 --> 02:10:43,199
ton of that in recent years. So I think

2992
02:10:43,199 --> 02:10:45,280
that's

2993
02:10:45,280 --> 02:10:46,800
something you got going for you. But I

2994
02:10:46,800 --> 02:10:49,199
do think that the trail thing I think it

2995
02:10:49,199 --> 02:10:51,679
can be sold as much of an amenity for

2996
02:10:51,679 --> 02:10:52,320
>> we agree

2997
02:10:52,320 --> 02:10:55,199
>> your own customers where we would call

2998
02:10:55,199 --> 02:10:57,199
them the new land owners.

2999
02:10:57,199 --> 02:11:03,199
Um, this is kind this is to Scott and the general plan. Was was your

3000
02:11:03,199 --> 02:11:05,840
comment about the cove going to larger

3001
02:11:05,840 --> 02:11:08,159
lots sort of

3002
02:11:08,159 --> 02:11:10,560
a hint that if this was zoned more that

3003
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:12,800
it still

3004
02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:14,159
follows the general pan because there

3005
02:11:14,159 --> 02:11:15,440
was less density over there.

3006
02:11:15,440 --> 02:11:17,599
>> Yeah, the hillside residential area is

3007
02:11:17,599 --> 02:11:20,480
lots 10,000 square feet and up. So, it's

3008
02:11:20,480 --> 02:11:23,520
assumed HP1 is essentially the R110 zone

3009
02:11:23,520 --> 02:11:26,320
with additional geologic requirements.

3010
02:11:26,320 --> 02:11:29,199
The cove is just it it's just its own

3011
02:11:29,199 --> 02:11:31,119
thing. It was developed in the early

3012
02:11:31,119 --> 02:11:33,760
2000s and it was developed as larger

3013
02:11:33,760 --> 02:11:37,360
lots on these private cold lanes and

3014
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:41,520
it's not reflective of what has to go up

3015
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:44,480
there. It's just what is west of it, but

3016
02:11:44,480 --> 02:11:47,440
it's in the HP2 zone.

3017
02:11:47,440 --> 02:11:50,560
>> Okay, Scott talkative today. If you look

3018
02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:55,040
at this diagram here,

3019
02:11:55,040 --> 02:11:57,520
>> um, right there where 1050 is coming up

3020
02:11:57,520 --> 02:11:59,679
and it curves in,

3021
02:11:59,679 --> 02:12:01,920
you have lot one there to the right. I

3022
02:12:01,920 --> 02:12:02,960
think it's lot one.

3023
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:03,440
>> Yeah.

3024
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:05,520
Lot one there to the right.

3025
02:12:05,520 --> 02:12:07,920
Immediately across 1050 from that is

3026
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:10,079
where North Agnes City has a well

3027
02:12:10,079 --> 02:12:11,040
pre-drilled.

3028
02:12:11,040 --> 02:12:11,760
>> Yeah.

3029
02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:14,000
>> So my question is, you're aware of that,

3030
02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:14,560
right?

3031
02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:15,360
>> Yes. Yeah.

3032
02:12:15,360 --> 02:12:20,880
>> Okay. is lot one, lot five, lot six,

3033
02:12:20,880 --> 02:12:23,280
and all of the um

3034
02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:24,239
>> those are in the

3035
02:12:24,239 --> 02:12:27,119
>> infrastructure are are they look like

3036
02:12:27,119 --> 02:12:28,719
they're going to be within the radius

3037
02:12:28,719 --> 02:12:30,480
that you can't have sewer, you can't

3038
02:12:30,480 --> 02:12:31,920
have water, kind of like we had over at

3039
02:12:31,920 --> 02:12:32,639
the water,

3040
02:12:32,639 --> 02:12:35,760
>> you can there's certain requirements,

3041
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:36,079
>> okay,

3042
02:12:36,079 --> 02:12:38,320
>> to be able to build in those.

3043
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:40,159
>> Okay. I I just was thinking of the

3044
02:12:40,159 --> 02:12:42,159
waterworks experience park.

3045
02:12:42,159 --> 02:12:44,000
>> Yeah. that we couldn't put a bathroom in

3046
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:46,000
and we couldn't do some other things

3047
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:47,920
because it was within what's the

3048
02:12:47,920 --> 02:12:49,360
distance John?

3049
02:12:49,360 --> 02:12:51,040
>> So feet of the of

3050
02:12:51,040 --> 02:12:53,760
>> water there's there's several zones one

3051
02:12:53,760 --> 02:12:54,719
two three

3052
02:12:54,719 --> 02:12:56,719
>> and at the waterworks parks it's in zone

3053
02:12:56,719 --> 02:12:59,280
one so there's no pipe even if it's

3054
02:12:59,280 --> 02:12:59,840
fused

3055
02:12:59,840 --> 02:13:00,320
>> nothing

3056
02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:01,199
>> but

3057
02:13:01,199 --> 02:13:03,040
>> we've actually already ran the sewer in

3058
02:13:03,040 --> 02:13:03,760
this area.

3059
02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:04,159
>> Okay.

3060
02:13:04,159 --> 02:13:07,520
>> Um and it is a fused pipe for a portion

3061
02:13:07,520 --> 02:13:09,199
because it's in zone two. Yeah,

3062
02:13:09,199 --> 02:13:11,119
>> there there should be in the public

3063
02:13:11,119 --> 02:13:14,400
works standards the well protection zone

3064
02:13:14,400 --> 02:13:15,119
>> right

3065
02:13:15,119 --> 02:13:16,000
>> maps that

3066
02:13:16,000 --> 02:13:17,199
>> I just wasn't sure

3067
02:13:17,199 --> 02:13:19,040
>> and be looked at and

3068
02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:19,520
>> yeah I

3069
02:13:19,520 --> 02:13:20,880
>> they have to meet those requirements

3070
02:13:20,880 --> 02:13:23,280
>> and just looking at the diagram I think

3071
02:13:23,280 --> 02:13:28,149
lot one would make a great pocket park

3072
02:13:28,159 --> 02:13:31,040
» hint hint

3073
02:13:31,040 --> 02:13:35,920
>> you know I like the pocket parks but I I mean this is kind of a work session

3074
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:36,719
this has nothing to do with the

3075
02:13:36,719 --> 02:13:39,360
applicant but I I would really like to

3076
02:13:39,360 --> 02:13:42,000
conglomerate a good chunk of land. You

3077
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:44,320
know, more soccer fields, you know, not

3078
02:13:44,320 --> 02:13:46,800
another, you know, plastic playground

3079
02:13:46,800 --> 02:13:48,800
that burns your kids butt in July,

3080
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:50,159
right?

3081
02:13:50,159 --> 02:13:51,840
>> Well, like that.

3082
02:13:51,840 --> 02:13:53,040
>> Nice playgrounds.

3083
02:13:53,040 --> 02:13:53,360
>> Yeah.

3084
02:13:53,360 --> 02:13:55,440
>> It's hard when you're getting up in the

3085
02:13:55,440 --> 02:13:56,560
hilly

3086
02:13:56,560 --> 02:13:59,440
>> areas to make a flat soccer field, you

3087
02:13:59,440 --> 02:14:00,000
know.

3088
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:03,119
>> Would these I don't know, this is way

3089
02:14:03,119 --> 02:14:04,480
early in the process. Are these going to

3090
02:14:04,480 --> 02:14:05,760
be public roads or is this going to be a

3091
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:07,199
private neighborhood? We anticipate

3092
02:14:07,199 --> 02:14:08,320
these to be public.

3093
02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:08,719
>> Okay.

3094
02:14:08,719 --> 02:14:11,199
>> Yeah. Which again for uh maybe a trail

3095
02:14:11,199 --> 02:14:13,280
connectivity or things of that sort,

3096
02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:15,040
public parking on the road, things like

3097
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:17,679
that. Um we plan to I mean they're

3098
02:14:17,679 --> 02:14:19,280
public so they'll they'll be implemented

3099
02:14:19,280 --> 02:14:20,079
that way. Yeah.

3100
02:14:20,079 --> 02:14:21,280
>> Thank you.

3101
02:14:21,280 --> 02:14:22,960
>> And as a point of note, I think this is

3102
02:14:22,960 --> 02:14:26,639
the second time we've seen a an idea in

3103
02:14:26,639 --> 02:14:29,679
a work session for this piece of

3104
02:14:29,679 --> 02:14:32,159
property. The last one was a little bit

3105
02:14:32,159 --> 02:14:33,920
different. I don't know if you brought

3106
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:35,040
it to us.

3107
02:14:35,040 --> 02:14:36,800
>> Uh no.

3108
02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:40,639
But but it almost exactly the same

3109
02:14:40,639 --> 02:14:46,000
amount of homes. Um kind of uh and like

3110
02:14:46,000 --> 02:14:47,520
I think we had the same concerns back

3111
02:14:47,520 --> 02:14:50,400
then which was green space and trails.

3112
02:14:50,400 --> 02:14:53,199
So just just as a point of reference, I

3113
02:14:53,199 --> 02:14:54,880
don't know if that even matters because

3114
02:14:54,880 --> 02:14:56,159
>> it just seems like they're a little

3115
02:14:56,159 --> 02:14:59,040
closer this time to be able to

3116
02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:00,800
>> present with all of I mean

3117
02:15:00,800 --> 02:15:02,800
>> I got I mean I don't know how many pits

3118
02:15:02,800 --> 02:15:05,920
is is normal but when he answered like

3119
02:15:05,920 --> 02:15:08,320
12 to 14 I was going that's pretty good.

3120
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:09,440
You know I was thinking they were going

3121
02:15:09,440 --> 02:15:11,599
to try to do three or five and find a

3122
02:15:11,599 --> 02:15:13,280
fault line and and run with it.

3123
02:15:13,280 --> 02:15:13,599
>> Yeah.

3124
02:15:13,599 --> 02:15:15,199
>> So it seems like they're just a little

3125
02:15:15,199 --> 02:15:17,520
closer this time. And so part of my

3126
02:15:17,520 --> 02:15:18,960
comments are like this is what you could

3127
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:20,800
do to sell everyone on it.

3128
02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:21,280
>> Yeah.

3129
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:25,679
>> And generally the when you build a pit

3130
02:15:25,679 --> 02:15:28,960
or or construct that you're not looking

3131
02:15:28,960 --> 02:15:32,000
for the fault line. The fault lines are

3132
02:15:32,000 --> 02:15:35,440
generally located by trenching

3133
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:38,400
across and you find the fault line and

3134
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:41,599
that the pits give you soil

3135
02:15:41,599 --> 02:15:44,239
characteristics and

3136
02:15:44,239 --> 02:15:47,119
things like that. But if you're looking

3137
02:15:47,119 --> 02:15:49,679
for a fault line, you're going to be

3138
02:15:49,679 --> 02:15:52,800
trenching across trying to

3139
02:15:52,800 --> 02:15:56,639
find it where it crosses. And on aluvial

3140
02:15:56,639 --> 02:15:59,920
fans, they're buried so deep that trench

3141
02:15:59,920 --> 02:16:01,840
has to be hundreds of feet deep

3142
02:16:01,840 --> 02:16:03,520
sometimes.

3143
02:16:03,520 --> 02:16:06,960
And that's almost impossible to do.

3144
02:16:06,960 --> 02:16:09,920
>> Yes. And and and so I think for for us

3145
02:16:09,920 --> 02:16:14,960
like the off the off the bat response um

3146
02:16:14,960 --> 02:16:17,840
from our geotech engineers was that

3147
02:16:17,840 --> 02:16:19,599
they've they've analyzed the state

3148
02:16:19,599 --> 02:16:21,280
approved mapping and we are outside of

3149
02:16:21,280 --> 02:16:24,159
those concerns. With that being said, we

3150
02:16:24,159 --> 02:16:28,079
don't if if that is not acceptable to

3151
02:16:28,079 --> 02:16:32,399
West Point simply just showing those maps and showing that we're out of

3152
02:16:32,399 --> 02:16:35,840
that area, I think we're as a team happy

3153
02:16:35,840 --> 02:16:38,800
to put our heads together and say, are

3154
02:16:38,800 --> 02:16:40,319
there additional studies? Are there one

3155
02:16:40,319 --> 02:16:43,760
or two extra things that um North OG

3156
02:16:43,760 --> 02:16:45,599
North Ogden Engineering and and the

3157
02:16:45,599 --> 02:16:47,840
planning department would like to see in

3158
02:16:47,840 --> 02:16:50,000
order for them to get comfortable? And

3159
02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:51,679
so I think we're kind of at that phase

3160
02:16:51,679 --> 02:16:55,120
right now where we're getting feedback

3161
02:16:55,120 --> 02:16:57,200
and we're getting our reports back from

3162
02:16:57,200 --> 02:16:59,679
our team. We're going to start sharing

3163
02:16:59,679 --> 02:17:02,240
that and comparing notes um with the

3164
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:04,880
city and

3165
02:17:04,880 --> 02:17:06,880
we're hopeful that what we provide on

3166
02:17:06,880 --> 02:17:09,519
the first round is is adequate. uh if

3167
02:17:09,519 --> 02:17:13,679
for whatever reason it's not then we're happy to follow that direction to

3168
02:17:13,679 --> 02:17:16,479
uh go and and pro prove or or find out I

3169
02:17:16,479 --> 02:17:22,870
should say that uh it is or it's not.

3170
02:17:22,880 --> 02:17:24,399
» I'm just thinking I'm I'm a little bit

3171
02:17:24,399 --> 02:17:25,679
of a blabbermouth. This is my last

3172
02:17:25,679 --> 02:17:28,639
comment I think but

3173
02:17:28,639 --> 02:17:29,840
>> just kidding. Just kidding. Sometimes

3174
02:17:29,840 --> 02:17:35,349
I'm quiet, sometimes I'm,

3175
02:17:35,359 --> 02:17:39,439
you know, just recent years we or was it last year we had the the fire up

3176
02:17:39,439 --> 02:17:40,319
there?

3177
02:17:40,319 --> 02:17:42,559
>> So, I like the idea of of retaining

3178
02:17:42,559 --> 02:17:46,479
vegetation, but I also like the idea of

3179
02:17:46,479 --> 02:17:48,800
not costing the city, you know, millions

3180
02:17:48,800 --> 02:17:50,960
to go up there and create a huge buffer.

3181
02:17:50,960 --> 02:17:54,319
But I would be again I it's just selling

3182
02:17:54,319 --> 02:17:55,679
points but I think it might be

3183
02:17:55,679 --> 02:17:58,479
interesting you know to talk to a

3184
02:17:58,479 --> 02:18:00,719
landscape specialist or an arborist or

3185
02:18:00,719 --> 02:18:03,280
things you know that that could be you

3186
02:18:03,280 --> 02:18:05,920
know maybe like a list a list of

3187
02:18:05,920 --> 02:18:07,920
existing plants that you would recommend

3188
02:18:07,920 --> 02:18:10,319
residents to you know if there is the

3189
02:18:10,319 --> 02:18:12,240
there's going to be the clear cutting

3190
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:14,399
but you know a list you know say hey you

3191
02:18:14,399 --> 02:18:15,760
know when we're selling these lots we're

3192
02:18:15,760 --> 02:18:19,920
given some extra information on you know

3193
02:18:19,920 --> 02:18:22,559
what plans you can go buy that are that

3194
02:18:22,559 --> 02:18:25,280
are native to what was there before. So

3195
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:28,000
maybe it's a different patch, but maybe,

3196
02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:30,080
you know, it's something people can put

3197
02:18:30,080 --> 02:18:32,960
in their yards and and whatnot. And then

3198
02:18:32,960 --> 02:18:36,639
I think with that, just a little bit of

3199
02:18:36,639 --> 02:18:39,439
forethought into

3200
02:18:39,439 --> 02:18:40,880
fire coming down that mountain because

3201
02:18:40,880 --> 02:18:42,800
we have planes and everything going on.

3202
02:18:42,800 --> 02:18:43,200
So

3203
02:18:43,200 --> 02:18:44,960
>> yeah. No, I think that's great great

3204
02:18:44,960 --> 02:18:46,960
input and we can we can definitely do

3205
02:18:46,960 --> 02:18:49,920
that. Um, and and this is something that

3206
02:18:49,920 --> 02:18:51,760
we'll still have several conversations

3207
02:18:51,760 --> 02:18:54,639
with fire marshall to make sure that the

3208
02:18:54,639 --> 02:18:56,960
um I've always called it the wooi zone,

3209
02:18:56,960 --> 02:18:59,760
but the wild urban interface. Uh, you

3210
02:18:59,760 --> 02:19:01,599
know, we still going to yeah, we got to

3211
02:19:01,599 --> 02:19:04,719
make those um we're going to have to

3212
02:19:04,719 --> 02:19:06,479
adhere to all of those guidelines and

3213
02:19:06,479 --> 02:19:09,599
things. And so, um,

3214
02:19:09,599 --> 02:19:14,319
yeah, that that'll be a priority for sure to get his uh his sign

3215
02:19:14,319 --> 02:19:17,519
off on that.

3216
02:19:17,519 --> 02:19:19,519
couple couple questions I had that I'd

3217
02:19:19,519 --> 02:19:22,960
love maybe some feedback on um is one

3218
02:19:22,960 --> 02:19:25,519
thought that we had with these lot sizes

3219
02:19:25,519 --> 02:19:30,800
that we are proposing is that um what we

3220
02:19:30,800 --> 02:19:33,280
have found is that

3221
02:19:33,280 --> 02:19:35,120
there's a there's a happy medium

3222
02:19:35,120 --> 02:19:39,359
oftentimes with um open space and and

3223
02:19:39,359 --> 02:19:41,920
also personal backyard space and kind of

3224
02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:43,439
how do we blend the two and make it

3225
02:19:43,439 --> 02:19:46,000
work. Our thought originally with these

3226
02:19:46,000 --> 02:19:48,240
lot sizes was to provide the homeowners

3227
02:19:48,240 --> 02:19:50,319
with large lots, large backyards,

3228
02:19:50,319 --> 02:19:51,680
something that they can feel like

3229
02:19:51,680 --> 02:19:54,560
they've got the ability to,

3230
02:19:54,560 --> 02:19:57,600
you know, have a goodiz backyard. Um,

3231
02:19:57,600 --> 02:19:59,520
and then and then kind of layer that

3232
02:19:59,520 --> 02:20:02,160
with trail connectivity that then opens

3233
02:20:02,160 --> 02:20:06,319
up to um the public land and the you

3234
02:20:06,319 --> 02:20:08,319
know large open space in that aspect. I

3235
02:20:08,319 --> 02:20:11,200
just would love a little bit more maybe

3236
02:20:11,200 --> 02:20:14,960
clarification or feedback on um we

3237
02:20:14,960 --> 02:20:16,720
acknowledge the trail connectivity is

3238
02:20:16,720 --> 02:20:18,479
going to be a priority, but in regards

3239
02:20:18,479 --> 02:20:21,840
to the open space um is there maybe a

3240
02:20:21,840 --> 02:20:23,359
little bit more conversation we could

3241
02:20:23,359 --> 02:20:25,920
have on

3242
02:20:25,920 --> 02:20:27,680
how do we make that a little bit of a

3243
02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:29,920
priority for sure while still keeping

3244
02:20:29,920 --> 02:20:32,720
the integrity of large lots and and and

3245
02:20:32,720 --> 02:20:35,359
uh bigger backyards, things of that

3246
02:20:35,359 --> 02:20:38,389
sort.

3247
02:20:38,399 --> 02:20:42,640
I mean, I said I wouldn't talk. Sorry.

3248
02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:44,000
>> He did ask the question.

3249
02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:45,680
>> I

3250
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:50,240
um I thought I thought last

3251
02:20:50,240 --> 02:20:53,040
the last meeting we had the the larger

3252
02:20:53,040 --> 02:20:56,160
estate lots there east of the cove.

3253
02:20:56,160 --> 02:21:00,720
And I I kind of liked the ringound

3254
02:21:00,720 --> 02:21:03,439
trail that you know that was you know

3255
02:21:03,439 --> 02:21:04,960
they were using as a fire buffer against

3256
02:21:04,960 --> 02:21:06,720
the forest

3257
02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:12,800
land but I I kind of I kind of like that was on the on the perimeter and the

3258
02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:16,319
fringe in my neighborhood

3259
02:21:16,319 --> 02:21:21,439
to get to the canal trail. the the

3260
02:21:21,439 --> 02:21:22,880
proposal was like in some of these

3261
02:21:22,880 --> 02:21:25,200
culde-sac lots,

3262
02:21:25,200 --> 02:21:28,640
you know, you know, here to do like a

3263
02:21:28,640 --> 02:21:31,120
10-ft trail through, but then you

3264
02:21:31,120 --> 02:21:32,800
started going then they started going

3265
02:21:32,800 --> 02:21:34,479
through and, you know, parking and

3266
02:21:34,479 --> 02:21:37,680
everything. So, I almost wonder

3267
02:21:37,680 --> 02:21:39,920
to your point, you know, with that lower

3268
02:21:39,920 --> 02:21:42,160
lot, you know, maybe not pocket park,

3269
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:44,640
but maybe that's the trail head. Maybe

3270
02:21:44,640 --> 02:21:45,920
there's a trail head there

3271
02:21:45,920 --> 02:21:47,600
>> and then you go right and then you then

3272
02:21:47,600 --> 02:21:49,280
you go right around, you know, between

3273
02:21:49,280 --> 02:21:50,800
the existing development. I don't know.

3274
02:21:50,800 --> 02:21:51,920
It's just

3275
02:21:51,920 --> 02:21:52,880
>> Well, combine that.

3276
02:21:52,880 --> 02:21:53,600
>> Yeah. No, that's

3277
02:21:53,600 --> 02:21:54,720
>> it's just kind of answering your

3278
02:21:54,720 --> 02:21:55,200
question.

3279
02:21:55,200 --> 02:21:57,040
>> Yeah.

3280
02:21:57,040 --> 02:21:58,960
>> Similar to 22nd Street trail head and

3281
02:21:58,960 --> 02:21:59,680
Austin.

3282
02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:00,000
>> Yeah.

3283
02:22:00,000 --> 02:22:02,319
And so like that almost seems like

3284
02:22:02,319 --> 02:22:04,319
a instead of going clear to the top of

3285
02:22:04,319 --> 02:22:06,000
those culde-sacs and trying to do it

3286
02:22:06,000 --> 02:22:08,160
that way to actually you know start

3287
02:22:08,160 --> 02:22:10,240
lower and get hoofing around your

3288
02:22:10,240 --> 02:22:12,960
property maybe between the existing

3289
02:22:12,960 --> 02:22:15,120
>> just a you know just again a general

3290
02:22:15,120 --> 02:22:17,520
idea uh you know to answer your

3291
02:22:17,520 --> 02:22:18,399
question. Yeah,

3292
02:22:18,399 --> 02:22:22,000
>> I would add that um you know I I design

3293
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:26,000
a home here and there and I would say

3294
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:29,200
that uh just one we can look at lot

3295
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:32,479
sizes and square footages. Um but I

3296
02:22:32,479 --> 02:22:34,399
would say a majority of the lots are are

3297
02:22:34,399 --> 02:22:37,600
close to 100 feet. Some are more, some

3298
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:40,560
are down in the in the 90s. But I I

3299
02:22:40,560 --> 02:22:42,160
personally think that what people are

3300
02:22:42,160 --> 02:22:44,800
used to seeing, we're really used to

3301
02:22:44,800 --> 02:22:47,760
seeing 100 foot wide lots. You know, a

3302
02:22:47,760 --> 02:22:49,120
lot of the homes you see with the

3303
02:22:49,120 --> 02:22:51,040
threecar garage, the front door, the two

3304
02:22:51,040 --> 02:22:52,640
bedrooms up front, we you know, you

3305
02:22:52,640 --> 02:22:54,640
could walk into a lot of homes and you

3306
02:22:54,640 --> 02:22:57,600
know your way around, but that is that

3307
02:22:57,600 --> 02:23:00,399
generally fits really well on a on

3308
02:23:00,399 --> 02:23:02,880
around that that 90 to 100 foot

3309
02:23:02,880 --> 02:23:05,359
frontage. just if anyone wants to get a

3310
02:23:05,359 --> 02:23:09,040
visualization on what the lot sizes

3311
02:23:09,040 --> 02:23:11,359
would allow besides just the pure square

3312
02:23:11,359 --> 02:23:12,319
footages.

3313
02:23:12,319 --> 02:23:13,120
>> Yeah,

3314
02:23:13,120 --> 02:23:15,439
>> I think you're right on that. I would I

3315
02:23:15,439 --> 02:23:18,160
would say that

3316
02:23:18,160 --> 02:23:21,600
lot one maybe presents itself as a nice

3317
02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:24,080
trail head, but I'm you're sticking a

3318
02:23:24,080 --> 02:23:29,600
trail head next to somebody's house that is there, whereas a different lot

3319
02:23:29,600 --> 02:23:32,960
within that subdivision might make a

3320
02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:34,399
little bit more I mean, I'm not going to

3321
02:23:34,399 --> 02:23:36,640
nitpick here, but they would know what

3322
02:23:36,640 --> 02:23:38,080
they're getting into when they got

3323
02:23:38,080 --> 02:23:39,680
there, right? And

3324
02:23:39,680 --> 02:23:40,240
>> um

3325
02:23:40,240 --> 02:23:41,760
>> and maybe, you know, maybe it's

3326
02:23:41,760 --> 02:23:43,439
somewhere like where the detention pond.

3327
02:23:43,439 --> 02:23:46,319
>> Sure. But I I really thought that was it

3328
02:23:46,319 --> 02:23:47,680
worked out really well in the last

3329
02:23:47,680 --> 02:23:49,600
developer favor, I think.

3330
02:23:49,600 --> 02:23:50,960
>> But I think it worked out really well

3331
02:23:50,960 --> 02:23:54,560
for everyone just to have that buffer

3332
02:23:54,560 --> 02:23:56,800
>> at the fringe of people's yards instead

3333
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:59,120
of in what I experienced when I was

3334
02:23:59,120 --> 02:24:00,560
moving into my neighborhood where they

3335
02:24:00,560 --> 02:24:01,760
were trying to put it in people's

3336
02:24:01,760 --> 02:24:03,040
sideyards.

3337
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:09,680
>> Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And just a thought there.

3338
02:24:09,680 --> 02:24:12,000
Did you say you had any other questions

3339
02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:13,200
for us?

3340
02:24:13,200 --> 02:24:16,960
Um, no. I think, yeah, I think just any

3341
02:24:16,960 --> 02:24:20,080
feedback is is uh is great for us right

3342
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:22,880
now.

3343
02:24:22,880 --> 02:24:25,520
>> In that case, this is still an open

3344
02:24:25,520 --> 02:24:27,680
public hearing and so we would invite

3345
02:24:27,680 --> 02:24:31,040
the public if there are any online or in

3346
02:24:31,040 --> 02:24:33,600
person and then we'll invite you back up

3347
02:24:33,600 --> 02:24:34,560
if that's okay.

3348
02:24:34,560 --> 02:24:35,680
>> Yeah, that's great.

3349
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:41,270
>> Okay.

3350
02:24:41,280 --> 02:24:44,640
Uh, No, in a public hearing, we don't go

3351
02:24:44,640 --> 02:24:49,040
back and forth. Um, and this any any

3352
02:24:49,040 --> 02:24:51,520
comments made right now have to pertain

3353
02:24:51,520 --> 02:24:54,800
specifically to this, but there will be

3354
02:24:54,800 --> 02:24:57,520
an opportunity later.

3355
02:24:57,520 --> 02:25:00,640
>> Uh, Brent Call, North Ogden resident.

3356
02:25:00,640 --> 02:25:03,200
Um,

3357
02:25:03,200 --> 02:25:05,920
I I really appreciate the the the

3358
02:25:05,920 --> 02:25:08,640
discussion and the uh the back and forth

3359
02:25:08,640 --> 02:25:10,880
on this and I think that's a great way

3360
02:25:10,880 --> 02:25:12,160
to

3361
02:25:12,160 --> 02:25:14,479
uh to to start to look at something like

3362
02:25:14,479 --> 02:25:18,399
this. Um but uh as you guys know, I've

3363
02:25:18,399 --> 02:25:20,880
been a little outspoken in the past on

3364
02:25:20,880 --> 02:25:25,520
the general plan and uh and and I would

3365
02:25:25,520 --> 02:25:28,479
agree with Commissioner Swanson and

3366
02:25:28,479 --> 02:25:31,040
Settle Meyer. I at least what I'm

3367
02:25:31,040 --> 02:25:33,439
hearing is is that there better be some

3368
02:25:33,439 --> 02:25:36,560
pretty compelling evidence

3369
02:25:36,560 --> 02:25:40,399
uh to to to

3370
02:25:40,399 --> 02:25:44,560
move away from the current zoning and to

3371
02:25:44,560 --> 02:25:48,800
put a higher density up there. And uh um

3372
02:25:48,800 --> 02:25:53,120
I've talked in the past about this creep

3373
02:25:53,120 --> 02:25:55,600
that seems to be happening uh with

3374
02:25:55,600 --> 02:25:59,040
respect to the general plan and uh

3375
02:25:59,040 --> 02:26:01,760
approving subdivisions and and and

3376
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:05,520
different developments uh that

3377
02:26:05,520 --> 02:26:08,560
in my opinion um really haven't fit into

3378
02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:12,319
what uh the general pan plan represents.

3379
02:26:12,319 --> 02:26:16,160
And uh um you know I agree that there

3380
02:26:16,160 --> 02:26:19,040
are times that needs to happen and uh

3381
02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:20,560
there's good reasons for doing those

3382
02:26:20,560 --> 02:26:22,800
kinds of things. But we have a general

3383
02:26:22,800 --> 02:26:26,080
plan for purpose and I know that and one

3384
02:26:26,080 --> 02:26:27,680
of the main reasons I'm here tonight is

3385
02:26:27,680 --> 02:26:29,520
to hear the discussion about the general

3386
02:26:29,520 --> 02:26:35,120
plan. um that uh

3387
02:26:35,120 --> 02:26:37,680
we need to be very careful and there

3388
02:26:37,680 --> 02:26:39,040
better be some pretty compelling

3389
02:26:39,040 --> 02:26:42,720
evidence to move away uh from what the

3390
02:26:42,720 --> 02:26:46,000
general plan currently represents. And

3391
02:26:46,000 --> 02:26:48,240
so I would highly encourage uh the

3392
02:26:48,240 --> 02:26:52,560
commission and the staff that uh if they

3393
02:26:52,560 --> 02:26:55,120
consider something like this that there

3394
02:26:55,120 --> 02:26:58,000
be very very careful consideration

3395
02:26:58,000 --> 02:27:08,710
uh before moving ahead. Thank you.

3396
02:27:08,720 --> 02:27:12,399
Any other public comment on this item

3397
02:27:12,399 --> 02:27:15,520
and any online

3398
02:27:15,520 --> 02:27:17,840
to close the public hearing?

3399
02:27:17,840 --> 02:27:19,520
>> Do we need to invite the developer back

3400
02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:22,160
up? You have any I don't think we

3401
02:27:22,160 --> 02:27:24,080
necessarily have to.

3402
02:27:24,080 --> 02:27:26,319
>> Okay.

3403
02:27:26,319 --> 02:27:28,720
Well, we need a second and then a

3404
02:27:28,720 --> 02:27:32,550
>> second. Second.

3405
02:27:32,560 --> 02:27:34,399
» All right. Who got the second in there?

3406
02:27:34,399 --> 02:27:35,520
Jorgensson.

3407
02:27:35,520 --> 02:27:36,000
>> Sure.

3408
02:27:36,000 --> 02:27:37,760
>> All right. Commissioner Swanson, motion

3409
02:27:37,760 --> 02:27:38,880
to close the public hearing.

3410
02:27:38,880 --> 02:27:40,399
Commissioner Jorgensson seconded the

3411
02:27:40,399 --> 02:27:44,399
motion. Voice Voice vote.

3412
02:27:44,399 --> 02:27:45,920
>> I I

3413
02:27:45,920 --> 02:27:47,760
>> Thank you.

3414
02:27:47,760 --> 02:27:52,150
>> All right. Um

3415
02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:53,600
there do we have a

3416
02:27:53,600 --> 02:27:56,560
>> we're not making any decisions

3417
02:27:56,560 --> 02:27:58,960
>> we can kind of

3418
02:27:58,960 --> 02:28:01,040
I guess we can discuss but we can also

3419
02:28:01,040 --> 02:28:03,200
move on. I think we I think we're pretty

3420
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:05,359
clear. Are we Did you Did you have a

3421
02:28:05,359 --> 02:28:07,120
comment? I don't want to

3422
02:28:07,120 --> 02:28:08,960
>> I didn't make a comment because I'm

3423
02:28:08,960 --> 02:28:10,160
thinking about it.

3424
02:28:10,160 --> 02:28:11,760
>> Okay.

3425
02:28:11,760 --> 02:28:14,640
>> Well, I think we'll see it again. So,

3426
02:28:14,640 --> 02:28:18,640
>> um I I agree with you. Um, in that case,

3427
02:28:18,640 --> 02:28:21,920
we'll move to item number eight. I'd

3428
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:24,880
like to make a motion that we defer item

3429
02:28:24,880 --> 02:28:27,680
number eight to a later date.

3430
02:28:27,680 --> 02:28:29,200
>> Second.

3431
02:28:29,200 --> 02:28:33,680
>> Okay. Uh, that is altering the agenda.

3432
02:28:33,680 --> 02:28:37,600
Um, just so everybody's aware. And then,

3433
02:28:37,600 --> 02:28:39,760
uh, that moves us to item number nine,

3434
02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:42,080
which is public comments. Right.

3435
02:28:42,080 --> 02:28:43,520
>> Did they vote on the

3436
02:28:43,520 --> 02:28:46,880
>> Oh, vote. Thank you. vote on the Is that

3437
02:28:46,880 --> 02:28:49,200
a Is that a count vote or an I vote?

3438
02:28:49,200 --> 02:28:49,920
>> Just a

3439
02:28:49,920 --> 02:28:51,120
>> You just do a voice

3440
02:28:51,120 --> 02:28:52,720
>> voice vote.

3441
02:28:52,720 --> 02:28:57,270
>> I want to go nay.

3442
02:28:57,280 --> 02:28:58,560
» One nay.

3443
02:28:58,560 --> 02:29:00,080
>> All right.

3444
02:29:00,080 --> 02:29:02,000
>> You're out. But

3445
02:29:02,000 --> 02:29:03,680
>> just because we have public that came

3446
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:05,439
for for that specific reason, we're

3447
02:29:05,439 --> 02:29:07,280
asking them to come back. So I'm just

3448
02:29:07,280 --> 02:29:09,120
making my heard.

3449
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:09,439
>> Okay.

3450
02:29:09,439 --> 02:29:10,000
>> Thank you.

3451
02:29:10,000 --> 02:29:11,520
>> That's fair.

3452
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:14,560
>> Appreciate that. Uh,

3453
02:29:14,560 --> 02:29:17,920
number nine is public comment.

3454
02:29:17,920 --> 02:29:19,920
Do we have anybody that would like to

3455
02:29:19,920 --> 02:29:26,550
comment?

3456
02:29:26,560 --> 02:29:28,080
» Sure.

3457
02:29:28,080 --> 02:29:30,080
>> Refuge. I just want to hear that.

3458
02:29:30,080 --> 02:29:33,120
>> Tell us what you think.

3459
02:29:33,120 --> 02:29:35,200
>> Tell tell us what you think.

3460
02:29:35,200 --> 02:29:36,399
>> Yeah, you can comment.

3461
02:29:36,399 --> 02:29:41,359
>> I wanted to hear about them. Um

3462
02:29:41,359 --> 02:29:44,399
I I suppose that the risk I've I've told

3463
02:29:44,399 --> 02:29:46,479
myself that I wasn't going to interact

3464
02:29:46,479 --> 02:29:47,760
and I got in a little bit of trouble

3465
02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:50,160
earlier for doing so. So I don't want to

3466
02:29:50,160 --> 02:29:54,240
but um we are what that is is we're

3467
02:29:54,240 --> 02:29:56,960
going through the general plan and just

3468
02:29:56,960 --> 02:29:58,800
kind of Scott, do you want to talk a

3469
02:29:58,800 --> 02:29:59,840
little bit more about this? We're going

3470
02:29:59,840 --> 02:30:01,439
through the general plan and deciding if

3471
02:30:01,439 --> 02:30:03,760
it's still relevant and what needs to be

3472
02:30:03,760 --> 02:30:06,640
changed and altered. Y should I sit down

3473
02:30:06,640 --> 02:30:07,280
so you can

3474
02:30:07,280 --> 02:30:09,359
>> No, not so it's still public comments.

3475
02:30:09,359 --> 02:30:11,920
So at your request I'll just make a

3476
02:30:11,920 --> 02:30:13,439
couple of comments and then please make

3477
02:30:13,439 --> 02:30:16,399
public comments. Um but we have a

3478
02:30:16,399 --> 02:30:18,960
general plan that was last text updated

3479
02:30:18,960 --> 02:30:21,920
in 2015 with some minor updates in 2019.

3480
02:30:21,920 --> 02:30:24,800
So it's an old general plan. It's not

3481
02:30:24,800 --> 02:30:26,880
way out of sync with what cities do. You

3482
02:30:26,880 --> 02:30:28,640
know 5 to 10 years they start looking at

3483
02:30:28,640 --> 02:30:31,120
it. Our general plan land use map was

3484
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:33,920
adopted in 2022. So that is actually

3485
02:30:33,920 --> 02:30:36,000
really current compared to some cities

3486
02:30:36,000 --> 02:30:37,439
along the Wasatch front that are

3487
02:30:37,439 --> 02:30:40,319
operating off of older uh land use maps.

3488
02:30:40,319 --> 02:30:43,200
But the city council has directed the

3489
02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:44,960
planning commission to do planning,

3490
02:30:44,960 --> 02:30:46,960
which is what we're here to do. It the

3491
02:30:46,960 --> 02:30:48,960
general plan is one of those elements.

3492
02:30:48,960 --> 02:30:51,359
So as an accountability measure really

3493
02:30:51,359 --> 02:30:52,720
for staff and for our planning

3494
02:30:52,720 --> 02:30:54,399
commission and for everybody, we've been

3495
02:30:54,399 --> 02:30:56,240
stepping through each individual section

3496
02:30:56,240 --> 02:30:58,640
of the general plan having discussions

3497
02:30:58,640 --> 02:31:00,479
about them. And that makes sure that you

3498
02:31:00,479 --> 02:31:02,160
know I' I've worked here five years.

3499
02:31:02,160 --> 02:31:03,920
I've read the general plan, but it's a

3500
02:31:03,920 --> 02:31:06,479
fresh reread of it. And then we have

3501
02:31:06,479 --> 02:31:08,240
these discussions with planning

3502
02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:10,080
commission. So, this is before any

3503
02:31:10,080 --> 02:31:11,760
decisions are made. It's to understand

3504
02:31:11,760 --> 02:31:14,319
what's in the current element, begin

3505
02:31:14,319 --> 02:31:16,640
thinking about what pieces are still

3506
02:31:16,640 --> 02:31:18,720
relevant versus what might be updated,

3507
02:31:18,720 --> 02:31:20,080
and then we'll go through a public

3508
02:31:20,080 --> 02:31:22,160
process where we'll invite really

3509
02:31:22,160 --> 02:31:23,760
everybody around the city to come and

3510
02:31:23,760 --> 02:31:26,479
provide feedback and comments. Um, but

3511
02:31:26,479 --> 02:31:28,560
the process so far has been let's all

3512
02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:30,080
just individually step through these

3513
02:31:30,080 --> 02:31:31,600
pieces of the general plan, these

3514
02:31:31,600 --> 02:31:33,840
chapters, and so we're all familiar with

3515
02:31:33,840 --> 02:31:36,479
what is written in there.

3516
02:31:36,479 --> 02:31:38,319
>> But we'd love to hear your feedback. I

3517
02:31:38,319 --> 02:31:40,160
think there's just been a lot of long

3518
02:31:40,160 --> 02:31:41,359
meetings. And so I don't know if that's

3519
02:31:41,359 --> 02:31:42,880
the reason for the

3520
02:31:42,880 --> 02:31:44,960
>> persist night, but

3521
02:31:44,960 --> 02:31:46,720
>> thank you though for because Yeah,

3522
02:31:46,720 --> 02:31:49,600
because I mean trails I know the canal

3523
02:31:49,600 --> 02:31:51,520
road has been mentioned before tonight.

3524
02:31:51,520 --> 02:31:53,280
It's, you know, that's a big one if

3525
02:31:53,280 --> 02:31:55,040
that's, you know, organized between

3526
02:31:55,040 --> 02:31:57,040
North Ogden City and Pleasant View

3527
02:31:57,040 --> 02:31:59,280
because I know that's and then again all

3528
02:31:59,280 --> 02:32:01,840
the houses going up. I, you know, used

3529
02:32:01,840 --> 02:32:04,160
to walk up there for exercise and now

3530
02:32:04,160 --> 02:32:06,000
they're houses and you can't go there

3531
02:32:06,000 --> 02:32:08,640
and and even, you know, where Frog Rock

3532
02:32:08,640 --> 02:32:10,080
was, that was supposed to be a park and

3533
02:32:10,080 --> 02:32:12,960
now it's it's housing. So, I just, you

3534
02:32:12,960 --> 02:32:14,479
know, wanted I was hoping there would be

3535
02:32:14,479 --> 02:32:16,800
like a general overview of what this

3536
02:32:16,800 --> 02:32:19,200
meant. So, I was looking forward to

3537
02:32:19,200 --> 02:32:21,520
that. And then the transportation plan

3538
02:32:21,520 --> 02:32:23,600
are those the roads I'm guessing the

3539
02:32:23,600 --> 02:32:26,399
road. Yeah. And so part of that Were you

3540
02:32:26,399 --> 02:32:27,040
going to say some?

3541
02:32:27,040 --> 02:32:27,680
>> No. Go ahead.

3542
02:32:27,680 --> 02:32:31,920
>> Oh, is is because of the I thought the

3543
02:32:31,920 --> 02:32:35,280
houses on the west side of of 400 to 450

3544
02:32:35,280 --> 02:32:39,040
was to widen the road and so I wanted to

3545
02:32:39,040 --> 02:32:43,190
find out that as well.

3546
02:32:43,200 --> 02:32:44,160
» So, should I sit down? Is

3547
02:32:44,160 --> 02:32:46,000
>> there a question?

3548
02:32:46,000 --> 02:32:47,680
>> What about the houses on the west side

3549
02:32:47,680 --> 02:32:49,040
of 450? like

3550
02:32:49,040 --> 02:32:52,479
>> those were purchased using rightaway

3551
02:32:52,479 --> 02:32:52,960
funds,

3552
02:32:52,960 --> 02:32:54,880
>> right? And that roadway project is going

3553
02:32:54,880 --> 02:32:58,720
on. Now, the plan that is in the uh

3554
02:32:58,720 --> 02:33:01,280
packet is the active transportation

3555
02:33:01,280 --> 02:33:02,720
plan. And the way to think of active

3556
02:33:02,720 --> 02:33:05,040
transportation is that's walking,

3557
02:33:05,040 --> 02:33:07,439
biking, rollerblades, scootering, folks

3558
02:33:07,439 --> 02:33:09,280
in wheelchairs. It's just

3559
02:33:09,280 --> 02:33:11,520
>> it's not a it's basically walking and

3560
02:33:11,520 --> 02:33:12,000
rolling.

3561
02:33:12,000 --> 02:33:13,920
>> Okay? And that plan, if you look

3562
02:33:13,920 --> 02:33:16,720
through, has specific projects

3563
02:33:16,720 --> 02:33:19,120
identified as trails in some cases, as

3564
02:33:19,120 --> 02:33:21,760
bike lanes, as buffered bike lanes. And

3565
02:33:21,760 --> 02:33:24,000
that's mostly focused with on street and

3566
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:26,319
sidewalk infrastructure. And then that's

3567
02:33:26,319 --> 02:33:28,399
different than the hillside trails that

3568
02:33:28,399 --> 02:33:30,479
we have. And then that's even separated

3569
02:33:30,479 --> 02:33:33,280
from the parks component. So if you read

3570
02:33:33,280 --> 02:33:35,040
the general plan, each of these pieces

3571
02:33:35,040 --> 02:33:37,840
are addressed in their own chapter.

3572
02:33:37,840 --> 02:33:39,200
>> On northden city.

3573
02:33:39,200 --> 02:33:41,680
>> Yeah. Yep. On northden city.gov and then

3574
02:33:41,680 --> 02:33:43,680
under departments planning and you can

3575
02:33:43,680 --> 02:33:46,479
find the general plan the maps as well

3576
02:33:46,479 --> 02:33:48,960
as the uh formal written document as

3577
02:33:48,960 --> 02:33:49,280
well.

3578
02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:50,319
>> Okay, thank you.

3579
02:33:50,319 --> 02:33:57,590
>> Thank you.

3580
02:33:57,600 --> 02:34:01,200
» Sorry um Brent call and uh appreciate

3581
02:34:01,200 --> 02:34:04,000
the no vote. Um, but I also appreciate

3582
02:34:04,000 --> 02:34:06,640
you postponing it uh to a further

3583
02:34:06,640 --> 02:34:08,479
meeting because I think uh we've been at

3584
02:34:08,479 --> 02:34:12,000
it two and a half hours and uh probably

3585
02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:13,920
would not give the general plan the

3586
02:34:13,920 --> 02:34:16,399
attention that it needs. And so I

3587
02:34:16,399 --> 02:34:18,960
appreciate that. maybe a suggestion that

3588
02:34:18,960 --> 02:34:21,280
next time we put it on the agenda, it

3589
02:34:21,280 --> 02:34:24,560
goes first or early in the agenda and we

3590
02:34:24,560 --> 02:34:28,080
can focus on that um and and give it the

3591
02:34:28,080 --> 02:34:29,840
uh attention

3592
02:34:29,840 --> 02:34:32,399
uh that it that it should have. Thank

3593
02:34:32,399 --> 02:34:35,040
you.

3594
02:34:35,040 --> 02:34:41,190
>> Thank you.

3595
02:34:41,200 --> 02:34:44,080
» I guess my only comment would be is that

3596
02:34:44,080 --> 02:34:47,040
my name's Doug Barner. Sorry about that.

3597
02:34:47,040 --> 02:34:47,359
All right.

3598
02:34:47,359 --> 02:34:50,160
>> I guess my only comment would be is that

3599
02:34:50,160 --> 02:34:52,880
I know when I would sit in a college

3600
02:34:52,880 --> 02:34:55,680
class and I was learning there was that

3601
02:34:55,680 --> 02:34:59,840
interchange asking questions and teacher

3602
02:34:59,840 --> 02:35:01,760
would say stuff and you could ask

3603
02:35:01,760 --> 02:35:04,720
questions and clarify and so when I come

3604
02:35:04,720 --> 02:35:07,600
to these meetings I'm not sure

3605
02:35:07,600 --> 02:35:09,760
when I can ask questions when there's

3606
02:35:09,760 --> 02:35:12,800
discussion and sometimes I feel like

3607
02:35:12,800 --> 02:35:15,200
well here's the agenda and this is what

3608
02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:18,000
we're going to talk about, but it's like

3609
02:35:18,000 --> 02:35:20,800
sometimes you make those comments based

3610
02:35:20,800 --> 02:35:23,920
on not having all the knowledge or being

3611
02:35:23,920 --> 02:35:26,240
able to clarify or ask questions. So,

3612
02:35:26,240 --> 02:35:28,560
it' be really nice if maybe if they in

3613
02:35:28,560 --> 02:35:30,720
the agenda or maybe there was a notice

3614
02:35:30,720 --> 02:35:33,200
or something that would say, "Hey, this

3615
02:35:33,200 --> 02:35:36,640
is where you can ask a question." Um, I

3616
02:35:36,640 --> 02:35:40,640
know that living up on Lake View, um,

3617
02:35:40,640 --> 02:35:43,040
there's been a lot of comments

3618
02:35:43,040 --> 02:35:45,280
and a lot of questions being asked about

3619
02:35:45,280 --> 02:35:48,319
the construction. And so those are just

3620
02:35:48,319 --> 02:35:50,399
things that are causing a lot of

3621
02:35:50,399 --> 02:35:52,720
conflict. And if there's some way that

3622
02:35:52,720 --> 02:35:56,720
we could communicate better and get more

3623
02:35:56,720 --> 02:35:59,280
information of what's happening, I think

3624
02:35:59,280 --> 02:36:02,319
it would be a lot less abrasive. And I

3625
02:36:02,319 --> 02:36:03,920
think a lot of the people that are

3626
02:36:03,920 --> 02:36:06,319
coming here that are my neighbors, I

3627
02:36:06,319 --> 02:36:08,880
mean, they made me aware of it. It would

3628
02:36:08,880 --> 02:36:11,359
just make things a lot easier if we

3629
02:36:11,359 --> 02:36:14,160
could have some more interchange of

3630
02:36:14,160 --> 02:36:16,000
knowing what's going on. I don't even

3631
02:36:16,000 --> 02:36:18,080
know. People are asking me, they when

3632
02:36:18,080 --> 02:36:19,680
they found out I was coming tonight,

3633
02:36:19,680 --> 02:36:21,200
well, how long are we going to be doing

3634
02:36:21,200 --> 02:36:24,479
detours? I have no idea. But it also

3635
02:36:24,479 --> 02:36:26,240
appears that I can't even ask that

3636
02:36:26,240 --> 02:36:28,160
question in the meeting. So, I'm just

3637
02:36:28,160 --> 02:36:29,920
thinking it would be really nice if we

3638
02:36:29,920 --> 02:36:32,479
had some forums that we could ask these

3639
02:36:32,479 --> 02:36:34,080
kinds of questions and get some of that

3640
02:36:34,080 --> 02:36:36,479
feedback. Just a comment.

3641
02:36:36,479 --> 02:36:42,469
>> Thank you.

3642
02:36:42,479 --> 02:36:44,240
» Can I make a quick comment? Yeah. with

3643
02:36:44,240 --> 02:36:46,800
that. If one of the one of the great

3644
02:36:46,800 --> 02:36:48,880
ways that you can ask your question, you

3645
02:36:48,880 --> 02:36:50,640
can imagine how long the meetings can be

3646
02:36:50,640 --> 02:36:55,439
if we get into a question and answer and probably the biggest difficulty is

3647
02:36:55,439 --> 02:36:57,120
that the question and answer quickly

3648
02:36:57,120 --> 02:36:59,840
becomes a debate, right? You've got

3649
02:36:59,840 --> 02:37:01,680
individuals asking a question from a

3650
02:37:01,680 --> 02:37:03,680
particular perspective.

3651
02:37:03,680 --> 02:37:05,520
we're answering and and sometimes

3652
02:37:05,520 --> 02:37:07,280
there's a lot of legal ease, a lot of

3653
02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:09,200
code and all that kind of thing that

3654
02:37:09,200 --> 02:37:11,200
doesn't allow us to do a certain thing

3655
02:37:11,200 --> 02:37:12,880
that residents don't understand that

3656
02:37:12,880 --> 02:37:15,359
that's why we're saying no. And it it

3657
02:37:15,359 --> 02:37:17,280
just I mean back in the Brent Taylor

3658
02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:18,960
days when I was on council, we had

3659
02:37:18,960 --> 02:37:20,800
meetings that went to midnight every

3660
02:37:20,800 --> 02:37:23,439
Tuesday night. We were six hours long.

3661
02:37:23,439 --> 02:37:25,439
And I think most people don't want to do

3662
02:37:25,439 --> 02:37:27,920
that. I don't want to do that anymore. I

3663
02:37:27,920 --> 02:37:30,080
was a younger person then. But if you go

3664
02:37:30,080 --> 02:37:33,920
on to North Ogden City's face uh web

3665
02:37:33,920 --> 02:37:36,720
page, okay, down in the lower right hand

3666
02:37:36,720 --> 02:37:40,960
corner, you're going to see a little

3667
02:37:40,960 --> 02:37:44,240
window that says text my gov.

3668
02:37:44,240 --> 02:37:46,640
And if you just simply tap on that, you

3669
02:37:46,640 --> 02:37:48,720
can opt in and you can ask questions.

3670
02:37:48,720 --> 02:37:52,240
Text and you you can you can send in you

3671
02:37:52,240 --> 02:37:54,880
can send your question in. There's also

3672
02:37:54,880 --> 02:37:57,920
the um North Ogden City Official

3673
02:37:57,920 --> 02:38:00,319
Facebook page that you can go on there

3674
02:38:00,319 --> 02:38:03,600
and just comment, just ask a question

3675
02:38:03,600 --> 02:38:05,920
and uh and and it'll get answered. There

3676
02:38:05,920 --> 02:38:07,520
are a couple of council members that

3677
02:38:07,520 --> 02:38:09,920
monitor that. There are staff members

3678
02:38:09,920 --> 02:38:11,760
that monitor that. And then there are

3679
02:38:11,760 --> 02:38:13,760
also several

3680
02:38:13,760 --> 02:38:16,560
private Facebook pages. um the

3681
02:38:16,560 --> 02:38:18,800
unapologetically non-political North

3682
02:38:18,800 --> 02:38:21,840
Ogden Facebook page, the North Ogden

3683
02:38:21,840 --> 02:38:24,000
Utah community Facebook page. There's

3684
02:38:24,000 --> 02:38:26,960
another one. Um you can just join those.

3685
02:38:26,960 --> 02:38:29,040
There's four or 5,000 people that are on

3686
02:38:29,040 --> 02:38:31,439
each of those and ask your question.

3687
02:38:31,439 --> 02:38:33,359
Council members monitor those. Other

3688
02:38:33,359 --> 02:38:35,920
staff members may comment. Uh there are

3689
02:38:35,920 --> 02:38:38,160
others of us that have experience that

3690
02:38:38,160 --> 02:38:41,680
will answer questions as well.

3691
02:38:41,680 --> 02:38:43,120
Yeah, but I think specifically the

3692
02:38:43,120 --> 02:38:45,439
detour question is a perfect text my gov

3693
02:38:45,439 --> 02:38:47,680
>> yeah yeah type type question. I would

3694
02:38:47,680 --> 02:38:49,920
also like to comment that I think it was

3695
02:38:49,920 --> 02:38:52,080
a little bit helpful or no I think it

3696
02:38:52,080 --> 02:38:53,760
was very helpful to hear those comments

3697
02:38:53,760 --> 02:38:55,600
sort of before we discuss that too

3698
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:57,520
although I'm not trying to make that

3699
02:38:57,520 --> 02:38:59,359
decision you know I'm not trying to

3700
02:38:59,359 --> 02:39:01,439
solidify my decision there I see the

3701
02:39:01,439 --> 02:39:02,960
error

3702
02:39:02,960 --> 02:39:05,200
u and and I will be more clear about

3703
02:39:05,200 --> 02:39:06,880
public comment in the future too I've

3704
02:39:06,880 --> 02:39:09,439
added a few changes there so um I really

3705
02:39:09,439 --> 02:39:11,120
appreciate the feedback and the public

3706
02:39:11,120 --> 02:39:16,309
comments are there any more

3707
02:39:16,319 --> 02:39:18,560
right We will move to remarks from the

3708
02:39:18,560 --> 02:39:21,120
planning commissioners. Anybody

3709
02:39:21,120 --> 02:39:22,800
have any remarks?

3710
02:39:22,800 --> 02:39:25,680
>> I have a question for Scott. We've had a

3711
02:39:25,680 --> 02:39:27,680
lot of comments tonight about a

3712
02:39:27,680 --> 02:39:30,800
commercial lot. Is that coming to us

3713
02:39:30,800 --> 02:39:33,200
anytime soon that you can give us an

3714
02:39:33,200 --> 02:39:33,760
idea?

3715
02:39:33,760 --> 02:39:34,319
>> Commercial.

3716
02:39:34,319 --> 02:39:36,880
>> So, we

3717
02:39:36,880 --> 02:39:39,680
>> the city owns a few, you know, two and a

3718
02:39:39,680 --> 02:39:42,960
half acres along 450 east up to 3100

3719
02:39:42,960 --> 02:39:45,600
North. We've had conversations with the

3720
02:39:45,600 --> 02:39:47,040
planning commission about neighborhood

3721
02:39:47,040 --> 02:39:48,560
commercial and where those locations

3722
02:39:48,560 --> 02:39:52,080
should go. We've looked at 3100 as a

3723
02:39:52,080 --> 02:39:54,560
major east west corridor. It does have

3724
02:39:54,560 --> 02:39:56,160
the high school on one side. It's North

3725
02:39:56,160 --> 02:39:58,640
Ogden Divide on the other. You look at

3726
02:39:58,640 --> 02:40:01,760
the 1960s general plan that showed it

3727
02:40:01,760 --> 02:40:03,520
was Bates Elementary actually was a

3728
02:40:03,520 --> 02:40:05,280
commercial center and commercial

3729
02:40:05,280 --> 02:40:09,040
marching up the hill. So staff asked the

3730
02:40:09,040 --> 02:40:11,680
question to the city council during work

3731
02:40:11,680 --> 02:40:16,000
session, what should this use of this

3732
02:40:16,000 --> 02:40:17,840
property that the city owns be

3733
02:40:17,840 --> 02:40:20,800
contemplated as? So it was not we have a

3734
02:40:20,800 --> 02:40:23,040
proposal for a convenience store, there

3735
02:40:23,040 --> 02:40:25,600
should be a gas station here. It was it

3736
02:40:25,600 --> 02:40:27,680
was simply the question we're looking at

3737
02:40:27,680 --> 02:40:29,120
the intersection of two major

3738
02:40:29,120 --> 02:40:31,520
transportation corridors. We're

3739
02:40:31,520 --> 02:40:33,439
attempting to look at commercial

3740
02:40:33,439 --> 02:40:34,960
development in the city that would

3741
02:40:34,960 --> 02:40:38,319
maintain sales tax. Um and and so what

3742
02:40:38,319 --> 02:40:41,280
should it be? And in some ways, right

3743
02:40:41,280 --> 02:40:42,960
now is the time to make that decision

3744
02:40:42,960 --> 02:40:44,560
because you're putting in a brand new

3745
02:40:44,560 --> 02:40:46,640
five-lane road and you would be looking

3746
02:40:46,640 --> 02:40:48,880
at what's the water, sewer, storm water

3747
02:40:48,880 --> 02:40:50,399
infrastructure that should go into these

3748
02:40:50,399 --> 02:40:53,760
lots and our public works department is

3749
02:40:53,760 --> 02:40:55,840
asking what should we plan for? So, if

3750
02:40:55,840 --> 02:40:58,160
it's a commercial corner or some sort of

3751
02:40:58,160 --> 02:40:59,600
neighborhood commercial corner, that's a

3752
02:40:59,600 --> 02:41:01,040
different water meter, different size

3753
02:41:01,040 --> 02:41:03,680
pipe, different sewer outfall than if

3754
02:41:03,680 --> 02:41:07,439
it's some sort of single family. And I,

3755
02:41:07,439 --> 02:41:09,600
you know, planning staff looks at that's

3756
02:41:09,600 --> 02:41:11,920
a five-lane major intersection. The idea

3757
02:41:11,920 --> 02:41:14,399
of having single family homes that back

3758
02:41:14,399 --> 02:41:17,359
out onto that roadway seems impractical.

3759
02:41:17,359 --> 02:41:19,680
Um there haven't been any land use

3760
02:41:19,680 --> 02:41:21,520
changes or decisions made and that would

3761
02:41:21,520 --> 02:41:23,600
go through a public process. But I think

3762
02:41:23,600 --> 02:41:26,240
the comment made at work session of

3763
02:41:26,240 --> 02:41:28,240
should we consider

3764
02:41:28,240 --> 02:41:29,680
neighborhood commercial at the

3765
02:41:29,680 --> 02:41:31,840
intersection of two major streets and at

3766
02:41:31,840 --> 02:41:35,040
the location where like really the last

3767
02:41:35,040 --> 02:41:36,720
stop before you go up over the divide

3768
02:41:36,720 --> 02:41:39,600
would be um is that something we should

3769
02:41:39,600 --> 02:41:42,240
contemplate? So, so if I was concerned

3770
02:41:42,240 --> 02:41:44,160
about that, the best path forward would

3771
02:41:44,160 --> 02:41:45,840
be to go to a city council meeting and

3772
02:41:45,840 --> 02:41:47,359
discuss it there in public public

3773
02:41:47,359 --> 02:41:48,319
comment. Maybe

3774
02:41:48,319 --> 02:41:49,680
>> you're the department, you aren't

3775
02:41:49,680 --> 02:41:52,560
department, you are the body that plans.

3776
02:41:52,560 --> 02:41:54,800
Okay. So, the ultimate

3777
02:41:54,800 --> 02:41:57,359
>> first recommendation would come from you

3778
02:41:57,359 --> 02:41:59,200
and what that should look like and we've

3779
02:41:59,200 --> 02:42:00,479
been talking about neighborhood

3780
02:42:00,479 --> 02:42:03,760
commercial. Um, I really love the 1960

3781
02:42:03,760 --> 02:42:05,680
general plan, mostly because it's a

3782
02:42:05,680 --> 02:42:07,920
handdrawn map and I think it's really

3783
02:42:07,920 --> 02:42:09,680
neat and I got to unroll it one day in

3784
02:42:09,680 --> 02:42:12,800
my office and like find it basically.

3785
02:42:12,800 --> 02:42:15,520
Um, but the people who built our

3786
02:42:15,520 --> 02:42:17,439
community could see around corners, you

3787
02:42:17,439 --> 02:42:19,040
know, they looked at Mountain Road, they

3788
02:42:19,040 --> 02:42:22,800
looked at 3100 North, 1050, 450 East to

3789
02:42:22,800 --> 02:42:24,720
Lake View. Those roadways are all on

3790
02:42:24,720 --> 02:42:28,160
there and it was a an empty hillside

3791
02:42:28,160 --> 02:42:30,800
largely at that point. And so they

3792
02:42:30,800 --> 02:42:32,560
contemplated a roadway network that

3793
02:42:32,560 --> 02:42:34,319
we've largely been able to build out.

3794
02:42:34,319 --> 02:42:36,640
They contemplated commercial uses,

3795
02:42:36,640 --> 02:42:39,520
residential uses, trail uses that in

3796
02:42:39,520 --> 02:42:41,200
some ways we've seen happen and in other

3797
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:43,920
ways we have not. And so the question

3798
02:42:43,920 --> 02:42:47,120
about, you know, keeping North Ogden as

3799
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:49,760
North Ogden, it depends on what era you

3800
02:42:49,760 --> 02:42:52,640
were in in future thinking of what that

3801
02:42:52,640 --> 02:42:55,439
North Ogden is. because had they vested

3802
02:42:55,439 --> 02:42:58,479
the 1960 general plan, Bates Elementary

3803
02:42:58,479 --> 02:43:01,600
would be a maverick right now and that's

3804
02:43:01,600 --> 02:43:04,880
just the way that plan was drawn. So for

3805
02:43:04,880 --> 02:43:07,520
us, we're thinking about should there be

3806
02:43:07,520 --> 02:43:10,319
any neighborhood commercial going north

3807
02:43:10,319 --> 02:43:14,640
and just practically for city financing,

3808
02:43:14,640 --> 02:43:16,479
it's a three-legged stool between

3809
02:43:16,479 --> 02:43:18,479
property taxes, sales tax, revenue, and

3810
02:43:18,479 --> 02:43:20,080
I'll call them franchise taxes, but

3811
02:43:20,080 --> 02:43:21,600
that's your service fees, your water,

3812
02:43:21,600 --> 02:43:24,800
sewer, garbage fees. And

3813
02:43:24,800 --> 02:43:27,120
saying no to one thing is saying yes to

3814
02:43:27,120 --> 02:43:30,080
another. So saying no to sales tax

3815
02:43:30,080 --> 02:43:31,920
revenue is saying yes to higher property

3816
02:43:31,920 --> 02:43:34,399
taxes. That's just there are bills that

3817
02:43:34,399 --> 02:43:36,399
need to get paid and that's not a reason

3818
02:43:36,399 --> 02:43:39,280
to do it in this one particular area.

3819
02:43:39,280 --> 02:43:44,000
But between the location leveraging the

3820
02:43:44,000 --> 02:43:46,560
millions of dollars of investment into

3821
02:43:46,560 --> 02:43:48,560
roadways in looking at our major

3822
02:43:48,560 --> 02:43:51,840
roadways as the areas that maybe some in

3823
02:43:51,840 --> 02:43:54,240
higher intensity should be. Those were

3824
02:43:54,240 --> 02:43:55,760
reasons that the staff asked the city

3825
02:43:55,760 --> 02:44:00,560
council the question, you know, what could the future in this area be?

3826
02:44:00,560 --> 02:44:02,560
There's a lot of guard rails in place

3827
02:44:02,560 --> 02:44:04,640
though. The city owns the land. It has

3828
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:06,560
not been reszoned. We we would have to

3829
02:44:06,560 --> 02:44:08,640
go through a public process. So, it

3830
02:44:08,640 --> 02:44:10,319
isn't as if we have a developer knocking

3831
02:44:10,319 --> 02:44:12,640
on our door. It's it's really the city

3832
02:44:12,640 --> 02:44:14,399
would be driving that decision because

3833
02:44:14,399 --> 02:44:15,760
we're the land owner.

3834
02:44:15,760 --> 02:44:20,790
>> Okay. And

3835
02:44:20,800 --> 02:44:22,080
hearing all the questions, I'm just

3836
02:44:22,080 --> 02:44:24,960
going to ask a fishing question.

3837
02:44:24,960 --> 02:44:27,359
Does neighborhood commercial allow a

3838
02:44:27,359 --> 02:44:29,840
Maverick gas station?

3839
02:44:29,840 --> 02:44:33,040
We we have a neighborhood commercial

3840
02:44:33,040 --> 02:44:36,319
zoning code in title 11. We don't have a

3841
02:44:36,319 --> 02:44:38,399
zoning map identification. It's never

3842
02:44:38,399 --> 02:44:40,479
landed on our zoning map. So, it's been

3843
02:44:40,479 --> 02:44:42,800
part of our zoning code for 10 years,

3844
02:44:42,800 --> 02:44:44,479
but it has never landed on the zoning

3845
02:44:44,479 --> 02:44:49,040
map. So, um no, right now it's not the

3846
02:44:49,040 --> 02:44:51,680
convenience stores, automotive uses are

3847
02:44:51,680 --> 02:44:53,520
not considered in the current

3848
02:44:53,520 --> 02:44:56,399
neighborhood commercial zone. And did

3849
02:44:56,399 --> 02:44:58,880
anyone go to Teddy Bears like 100 years

3850
02:44:58,880 --> 02:45:00,960
ago? Your own teddy bears.

3851
02:45:00,960 --> 02:45:03,279
>> Currently Straw Market.

3852
02:45:03,279 --> 02:45:05,760
>> Yes.

3853
02:45:05,760 --> 02:45:07,200
>> You know, that's a little more rural,

3854
02:45:07,200 --> 02:45:08,399
but that's all whenever this

3855
02:45:08,399 --> 02:45:09,920
neighborhood commercial comes up, it

3856
02:45:09,920 --> 02:45:11,760
came up on the town homes down there on

3857
02:45:11,760 --> 02:45:14,000
the Randall property, that little corner

3858
02:45:14,000 --> 02:45:14,960
one.

3859
02:45:14,960 --> 02:45:18,080
>> Everyone's everyone

3860
02:45:18,080 --> 02:45:21,279
it it it does give a nice spot for, you

3861
02:45:21,279 --> 02:45:23,600
know, inter intermediate trips. Go grab

3862
02:45:23,600 --> 02:45:25,439
something. go get a, you know, bite to

3863
02:45:25,439 --> 02:45:27,040
eat. It doesn't, you know, like straw

3864
02:45:27,040 --> 02:45:28,960
market isn't like traffic central, but

3865
02:45:28,960 --> 02:45:30,399
we've all been there.

3866
02:45:30,399 --> 02:45:30,640
>> Yep.

3867
02:45:30,640 --> 02:45:33,040
>> And so the basis of my question was

3868
02:45:33,040 --> 02:45:36,240
give, you know, give someone to go to go

3869
02:45:36,240 --> 02:45:38,319
look up the the neighborhood commercial

3870
02:45:38,319 --> 02:45:40,479
on on the website, get a little bit more

3871
02:45:40,479 --> 02:45:43,359
bearing on what the discussion is based

3872
02:45:43,359 --> 02:45:46,640
around. But, you know, I I'm not overly

3873
02:45:46,640 --> 02:45:48,240
opposed to any neighborhood commercial,

3874
02:45:48,240 --> 02:45:50,479
but I am opposed to like a Maverick.

3875
02:45:50,479 --> 02:45:52,000
Does that make sense? Mhm.

3876
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:53,439
>> That's so you

3877
02:45:53,439 --> 02:45:54,240
>> current form

3878
02:45:54,240 --> 02:45:54,880
>> but

3879
02:45:54,880 --> 02:45:55,840
>> right

3880
02:45:55,840 --> 02:45:57,840
>> just Maverick in general. No Mavericks.

3881
02:45:57,840 --> 02:45:59,200
>> I agree. But

3882
02:45:59,200 --> 02:46:02,080
>> that's not to me. But

3883
02:46:02,080 --> 02:46:03,600
>> hey,

3884
02:46:03,600 --> 02:46:06,479
>> you you can judge the swimming pool uh

3885
02:46:06,479 --> 02:46:08,399
participation at the swimming pool based

3886
02:46:08,399 --> 02:46:10,160
on the number of slushies that are sold

3887
02:46:10,160 --> 02:46:12,800
at Maverick. Like they they buy more

3888
02:46:12,800 --> 02:46:14,399
based on how hot the weather is for the

3889
02:46:14,399 --> 02:46:15,600
swimming pool. So it's kind of

3890
02:46:15,600 --> 02:46:17,120
interesting. But right now

3891
02:46:17,120 --> 02:46:18,960
>> that's why that's why that maverick is

3892
02:46:18,960 --> 02:46:20,720
close to the swimming pool

3893
02:46:20,720 --> 02:46:22,560
>> and not in a neighborhood.

3894
02:46:22,560 --> 02:46:24,800
>> We it still needs to come to the

3895
02:46:24,800 --> 02:46:26,800
planning commission.

3896
02:46:26,800 --> 02:46:28,479
>> Yeah, you would have to do there's it

3897
02:46:28,479 --> 02:46:31,120
would require all of the land use steps.

3898
02:46:31,120 --> 02:46:31,520
I mean,

3899
02:46:31,520 --> 02:46:34,000
>> and there is no proposed

3900
02:46:34,000 --> 02:46:36,000
>> there's no there's no proposal at all.

3901
02:46:36,000 --> 02:46:38,640
And to say all of the entitlement steps

3902
02:46:38,640 --> 02:46:40,240
like it would require a general plan

3903
02:46:40,240 --> 02:46:42,960
amendment and a reszone and then the

3904
02:46:42,960 --> 02:46:44,720
city council to determine the property

3905
02:46:44,720 --> 02:46:47,040
as surplus and then to find a developer

3906
02:46:47,040 --> 02:46:50,080
and sell it to like it it needs it has

3907
02:46:50,080 --> 02:46:52,800
all of the steps, right? This isn't

3908
02:46:52,800 --> 02:46:55,760
>> so so a proactive conversation turned

3909
02:46:55,760 --> 02:46:57,359
into

3910
02:46:57,359 --> 02:46:58,880
>> concern

3911
02:46:58,880 --> 02:47:00,560
>> the a rumor mill.

3912
02:47:00,560 --> 02:47:02,800
>> Yeah. just and people want to I I get

3913
02:47:02,800 --> 02:47:04,080
it. I mean, they want to protect their

3914
02:47:04,080 --> 02:47:05,920
quality of life and what they see around

3915
02:47:05,920 --> 02:47:06,880
them. Absolutely.

3916
02:47:06,880 --> 02:47:09,040
>> There are concerns for sure. So, it's

3917
02:47:09,040 --> 02:47:11,279
not a decision that it isn't even a

3918
02:47:11,279 --> 02:47:12,560
decision. It was more of just a

3919
02:47:12,560 --> 02:47:14,479
question. What What would this corner

3920
02:47:14,479 --> 02:47:15,920
look like? What should this corner look

3921
02:47:15,920 --> 02:47:18,479
like as the city moves from 21,000

3922
02:47:18,479 --> 02:47:20,319
people to 40,000 people?

3923
02:47:20,319 --> 02:47:22,000
>> But as we're doing the general plan,

3924
02:47:22,000 --> 02:47:26,080
it's something we should consider as a future consideration for the

3925
02:47:26,080 --> 02:47:26,960
community.

3926
02:47:26,960 --> 02:47:28,640
>> Yep. And we'll ask the public's opinion

3927
02:47:28,640 --> 02:47:30,399
on that as well. So we'll

3928
02:47:30,399 --> 02:47:32,560
>> it won't be any unilateral decision.

3929
02:47:32,560 --> 02:47:35,680
It's it will get the whole well public

3930
02:47:35,680 --> 02:47:36,880
planning commission and then city

3931
02:47:36,880 --> 02:47:38,479
council as the legislative body will

3932
02:47:38,479 --> 02:47:40,640
ultimately adopt whatever version of the

3933
02:47:40,640 --> 02:47:43,200
map and text we create.

3934
02:47:43,200 --> 02:47:47,910
>> Thank thank you for the clarity.

3935
02:47:47,920 --> 02:47:51,439
» Any other comments I have? I just wanted

3936
02:47:51,439 --> 02:47:55,040
to comment um I agree that having

3937
02:47:55,040 --> 02:47:58,160
something on the agenda

3938
02:47:58,160 --> 02:47:59,920
um

3939
02:47:59,920 --> 02:48:02,479
we should have we should address that.

3940
02:48:02,479 --> 02:48:05,920
So maybe not have something like that on

3941
02:48:05,920 --> 02:48:07,840
the agenda

3942
02:48:07,840 --> 02:48:11,600
when we see three

3943
02:48:11,600 --> 02:48:13,439
potentially,

3944
02:48:13,439 --> 02:48:16,080
you know, questionable items like what

3945
02:48:16,080 --> 02:48:18,399
we had tonight. If we have those like

3946
02:48:18,399 --> 02:48:20,080
tonight we had those three

3947
02:48:20,080 --> 02:48:20,720
>> that's

3948
02:48:20,720 --> 02:48:23,279
>> we should have known a little bit maybe

3949
02:48:23,279 --> 02:48:25,359
had a little bit more foresight to not

3950
02:48:25,359 --> 02:48:29,200
have a discussion on the general plan

3951
02:48:29,200 --> 02:48:31,680
when we see something that like that.

3952
02:48:31,680 --> 02:48:34,800
I'm not trying to point fingers or blame

3953
02:48:34,800 --> 02:48:37,120
anybody. I just say from here on out if

3954
02:48:37,120 --> 02:48:40,399
we if we see items on the agenda maybe

3955
02:48:40,399 --> 02:48:44,319
we we think about tableabling

3956
02:48:44,319 --> 02:48:45,840
um

3957
02:48:45,840 --> 02:48:48,240
tableabling that. so we don't have our

3958
02:48:48,240 --> 02:48:50,880
community members wait to just see it um

3959
02:48:50,880 --> 02:48:52,880
move to another night. I I appreciate

3960
02:48:52,880 --> 02:48:55,120
your comments. Um I would agree with

3961
02:48:55,120 --> 02:48:58,240
that and at the same time I also agree

3962
02:48:58,240 --> 02:49:00,640
that it's not going to get the attention

3963
02:49:00,640 --> 02:49:04,720
that it deserves um this late. So uh

3964
02:49:04,720 --> 02:49:06,960
thank you for your comments and um

3965
02:49:06,960 --> 02:49:09,840
hopefully we can maybe be a little as a

3966
02:49:09,840 --> 02:49:12,399
group be a little bit better on that.

3967
02:49:12,399 --> 02:49:13,040
>> I agree.

3968
02:49:13,040 --> 02:49:14,080
>> It's good feedback.

3969
02:49:14,080 --> 02:49:17,439
>> I agree. I think that however I I think

3970
02:49:17,439 --> 02:49:20,479
a lot of what came up tonight was the

3971
02:49:20,479 --> 02:49:22,640
commercial development that didn't

3972
02:49:22,640 --> 02:49:26,640
really exist and so

3973
02:49:26,640 --> 02:49:30,160
you know that's hard to foresee right um

3974
02:49:30,160 --> 02:49:32,160
but I do think you know maybe less than

3975
02:49:32,160 --> 02:49:34,080
two items on the agenda and we have a

3976
02:49:34,080 --> 02:49:35,760
planning session or something you know

3977
02:49:35,760 --> 02:49:37,439
we can maybe put some hard fast rules

3978
02:49:37,439 --> 02:49:39,920
around it but again you never really

3979
02:49:39,920 --> 02:49:41,439
know what's going to come up and and

3980
02:49:41,439 --> 02:49:44,080
that does put us in another sticky

3981
02:49:44,080 --> 02:49:46,800
situation. But so I appreciate your

3982
02:49:46,800 --> 02:49:50,720
comments and as well as everyone here.

3983
02:49:50,720 --> 02:49:53,120
Um any other remarks?

3984
02:49:53,120 --> 02:49:56,479
>> Okay, we'll have a uh Scott, do you have

3985
02:49:56,479 --> 02:49:57,279
anything for us?

3986
02:49:57,279 --> 02:49:58,720
>> Nope.

3987
02:49:58,720 --> 02:49:59,520
>> John,

3988
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:01,439
>> uh that's good feedback. One thing we've

3989
02:50:01,439 --> 02:50:03,439
talked about is maybe doing an action

3990
02:50:03,439 --> 02:50:05,760
agenda once a month and then kind of a

3991
02:50:05,760 --> 02:50:07,600
planning agenda like long-term once a

3992
02:50:07,600 --> 02:50:10,399
month so that we get that separation.

3993
02:50:10,399 --> 02:50:12,160
um the question about whether

3994
02:50:12,160 --> 02:50:14,000
legislative items are long-term or

3995
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:17,040
short-term may fall into that gray area

3996
02:50:17,040 --> 02:50:20,160
um is unique. And then also it's not

3997
02:50:20,160 --> 02:50:21,680
inappropriate for people to ask

3998
02:50:21,680 --> 02:50:24,080
questions and if if you want to respond

3999
02:50:24,080 --> 02:50:28,960
as a group, but like Phil mentions, it's that back and forth, especially at

4000
02:50:28,960 --> 02:50:30,960
council, it can happen where it it can

4001
02:50:30,960 --> 02:50:34,640
get really bad really quick. And um it's

4002
02:50:34,640 --> 02:50:37,279
usually what the council does is they'll

4003
02:50:37,279 --> 02:50:38,800
write down the questions and then answer

4004
02:50:38,800 --> 02:50:40,960
them at the end. you know, not even of

4005
02:50:40,960 --> 02:50:42,399
the comments. Sometimes I wait till the

4006
02:50:42,399 --> 02:50:45,760
end of the full discussion so that it

4007
02:50:45,760 --> 02:50:47,279
again doesn't turn into this back and

4008
02:50:47,279 --> 02:50:48,960
forth.

4009
02:50:48,960 --> 02:50:50,240
>> Move.

4010
02:50:50,240 --> 02:50:53,279
>> So, and it's, you know, it's it's hard.

4011
02:50:53,279 --> 02:50:54,319
It's

4012
02:50:54,319 --> 02:50:54,720
>> it's

4013
02:50:54,720 --> 02:50:55,840
>> I mean, that's just good to know. I

4014
02:50:55,840 --> 02:50:59,279
mean, because there are just some,

4015
02:50:59,279 --> 02:51:01,359
you know, the gentleman from Lake View,

4016
02:51:01,359 --> 02:51:03,840
I tried guessing the best question I

4017
02:51:03,840 --> 02:51:06,160
could maybe think he wanted to ask. Is

4018
02:51:06,160 --> 02:51:08,479
there a convenience store or gas station

4019
02:51:08,479 --> 02:51:09,520
proposed? So

4020
02:51:09,520 --> 02:51:09,760
>> yeah,

4021
02:51:09,760 --> 02:51:11,120
>> you know, I think

4022
02:51:11,120 --> 02:51:12,560
>> that could have kept the whole thing

4023
02:51:12,560 --> 02:51:15,200
from getting sidetracked if

4024
02:51:15,200 --> 02:51:17,040
>> I mean I think instead of criticizing

4025
02:51:17,040 --> 02:51:18,640
the schedule, I think looking at all of

4026
02:51:18,640 --> 02:51:20,640
us, maybe when those first comments came

4027
02:51:20,640 --> 02:51:22,240
up and we're all sitting here not

4028
02:51:22,240 --> 02:51:23,840
knowing what in the heck we're talking

4029
02:51:23,840 --> 02:51:27,120
about and and the citizens do, maybe we

4030
02:51:27,120 --> 02:51:29,040
could have addressed that right then and

4031
02:51:29,040 --> 02:51:34,720
there and had just a moment of pause and have this short conversation. And the other thing that's a little

4032
02:51:34,720 --> 02:51:36,720
unique and hard with this group is it's

4033
02:51:36,720 --> 02:51:39,200
a little bit more informal and and

4034
02:51:39,200 --> 02:51:42,800
historically has been and and the public

4035
02:51:42,800 --> 02:51:45,439
meetings are set up that anything

4036
02:51:45,439 --> 02:51:48,160
outside of a public hearing. Residents

4037
02:51:48,160 --> 02:51:50,319
get to watch government make its

4038
02:51:50,319 --> 02:51:52,240
decision. They're not involved in the

4039
02:51:52,240 --> 02:51:54,560
process. And that's really hard as a

4040
02:51:54,560 --> 02:51:57,120
resident to to be in the room and feel

4041
02:51:57,120 --> 02:51:59,439
like you're not involved.

4042
02:51:59,439 --> 02:52:00,560
If you've ever been to the state

4043
02:52:00,560 --> 02:52:02,080
legislature again outside of their

4044
02:52:02,080 --> 02:52:04,240
hearing process like that's the way it

4045
02:52:04,240 --> 02:52:05,920
is. You you sit there and you watch and

4046
02:52:05,920 --> 02:52:06,880
they will not

4047
02:52:06,880 --> 02:52:07,279
>> Yeah.

4048
02:52:07,279 --> 02:52:10,240
>> They might not even smile at you. So, um

4049
02:52:10,240 --> 02:52:12,399
but public hearings are the opposite.

4050
02:52:12,399 --> 02:52:15,600
That's the time when we we let people

4051
02:52:15,600 --> 02:52:17,680
talk for their five minutes and let the

4052
02:52:17,680 --> 02:52:19,359
hearing go as long as it needs to for

4053
02:52:19,359 --> 02:52:22,720
everyone to say their comments. And um

4054
02:52:22,720 --> 02:52:26,560
anyways, it's just fun process. We're probably going to do some open

4055
02:52:26,560 --> 02:52:28,960
meetings training is

4056
02:52:28,960 --> 02:52:30,640
council needs some not that they've been

4057
02:52:30,640 --> 02:52:32,800
doing bad things but just they have to

4058
02:52:32,800 --> 02:52:35,120
get it every year to comply with state

4059
02:52:35,120 --> 02:52:37,359
code just like you do. So we'll we'll

4060
02:52:37,359 --> 02:52:39,279
figure out some training that will help

4061
02:52:39,279 --> 02:52:42,800
I think with your process if if you have

4062
02:52:42,800 --> 02:52:46,720
ideas on that send it to Scott and we'll train the areas where you'd like

4063
02:52:46,720 --> 02:52:49,520
help. So

4064
02:52:49,520 --> 02:52:52,080
>> can I make one staff comment as well?

4065
02:52:52,080 --> 02:52:53,760
Um,

4066
02:52:53,760 --> 02:52:56,640
total side note, our we have a planning

4067
02:52:56,640 --> 02:52:59,279
intern this summer with the city that

4068
02:52:59,279 --> 02:53:01,760
we're really excited about, Elisa

4069
02:53:01,760 --> 02:53:04,080
Sangrren, and she's here. Um, we're

4070
02:53:04,080 --> 02:53:06,080
hoping to give her really good

4071
02:53:06,080 --> 02:53:08,399
experience, maybe potentially present

4072
02:53:08,399 --> 02:53:10,880
here. Um, but just wanted to introduce

4073
02:53:10,880 --> 02:53:12,560
her.

4074
02:53:12,560 --> 02:53:14,720
>> Welcome. Welcome.

4075
02:53:14,720 --> 02:53:17,439
>> Um, I don't know if it's

4076
02:53:17,439 --> 02:53:19,760
regarding agenda items. We we generally

4077
02:53:19,760 --> 02:53:21,760
know pretty well what's coming on the

4078
02:53:21,760 --> 02:53:24,720
next meeting or two. So if that's ever a

4079
02:53:24,720 --> 02:53:26,880
concern, I I'd say it's worth worth

4080
02:53:26,880 --> 02:53:30,080
talking to Scott or I if if there is

4081
02:53:30,080 --> 02:53:33,520
this many items that are time consuming

4082
02:53:33,520 --> 02:53:35,680
>> and and generally we try to frontload

4083
02:53:35,680 --> 02:53:37,840
the application or frontload the agenda

4084
02:53:37,840 --> 02:53:40,240
with applicants who have paid for their

4085
02:53:40,240 --> 02:53:42,319
time to come and consider those things.

4086
02:53:42,319 --> 02:53:45,760
And so legislative items are a mixed

4087
02:53:45,760 --> 02:53:47,279
bag. Sometimes they go quickly,

4088
02:53:47,279 --> 02:53:49,600
sometimes they run long. We have had

4089
02:53:49,600 --> 02:53:51,520
several reason applications that have

4090
02:53:51,520 --> 02:53:54,160
been long. So, I would say we've had

4091
02:53:54,160 --> 02:53:55,680
more growth pressure in the last six

4092
02:53:55,680 --> 02:53:57,760
months than I've watched in the four and

4093
02:53:57,760 --> 02:54:00,319
a half years prior to that. Um, and

4094
02:54:00,319 --> 02:54:02,720
we're trying to get away from taking a

4095
02:54:02,720 --> 02:54:04,240
bunch of the planning commission's time

4096
02:54:04,240 --> 02:54:06,720
in administrative items. So, reducing

4097
02:54:06,720 --> 02:54:09,359
the time for things like commercial site

4098
02:54:09,359 --> 02:54:11,279
plans that are compliant as much as

4099
02:54:11,279 --> 02:54:14,560
possible. and staff is, you know,

4100
02:54:14,560 --> 02:54:16,720
determined and we really make a strong

4101
02:54:16,720 --> 02:54:18,880
attempt to not bring an item to planning

4102
02:54:18,880 --> 02:54:20,560
commission that's administrative that

4103
02:54:20,560 --> 02:54:22,319
doesn't comply because you can't

4104
02:54:22,319 --> 02:54:24,800
interpret the law, you can't create law.

4105
02:54:24,800 --> 02:54:27,520
So, we bring those items to you to say

4106
02:54:27,520 --> 02:54:29,439
these are it isn't compliance. Maybe

4107
02:54:29,439 --> 02:54:31,040
these are the few things that you should

4108
02:54:31,040 --> 02:54:35,439
think about um and try to make those as

4109
02:54:35,439 --> 02:54:37,520
expedited as possible. But that's

4110
02:54:37,520 --> 02:54:38,720
generally what we do. We try to

4111
02:54:38,720 --> 02:54:41,359
frontload with applicants and then these

4112
02:54:41,359 --> 02:54:43,920
planning items that are sort of at large

4113
02:54:43,920 --> 02:54:46,240
um not make everybody sit in the room

4114
02:54:46,240 --> 02:54:48,160
and wait if they're trying to get a

4115
02:54:48,160 --> 02:54:51,040
decision on you know their commercial

4116
02:54:51,040 --> 02:54:53,920
location.

4117
02:54:53,920 --> 02:54:56,399
>> Can I make can I make one suggestion?

4118
02:54:56,399 --> 02:54:59,520
>> This is just purely for me as I get old.

4119
02:54:59,520 --> 02:55:01,200
Um

4120
02:55:01,200 --> 02:55:03,279
your staff reports are always wonderful

4121
02:55:03,279 --> 02:55:08,160
and they're detailed. Um but the

4122
02:55:08,160 --> 02:55:11,439
as we go to make a proposal for a

4123
02:55:11,439 --> 02:55:13,920
recommend recommend to approve or

4124
02:55:13,920 --> 02:55:16,240
recommend to deny

4125
02:55:16,240 --> 02:55:18,800
there's often some contingencies and

4126
02:55:18,800 --> 02:55:21,120
they're spread out throughout the

4127
02:55:21,120 --> 02:55:21,760
report.

4128
02:55:21,760 --> 02:55:23,439
>> Yeah. and

4129
02:55:23,439 --> 02:55:24,080
>> summarize

4130
02:55:24,080 --> 02:55:26,080
>> if there were like an executive summary

4131
02:55:26,080 --> 02:55:28,800
at the top where you said this is in

4132
02:55:28,800 --> 02:55:31,600
compliance and the staff is recommending

4133
02:55:31,600 --> 02:55:34,800
these contingencies 1 2 3 four and five

4134
02:55:34,800 --> 02:55:37,920
so that when we go to make a a motion we

4135
02:55:37,920 --> 02:55:40,000
can read that really easily. Obviously

4136
02:55:40,000 --> 02:55:41,200
we're going to go through the meat of

4137
02:55:41,200 --> 02:55:42,720
the thing but then we don't have to

4138
02:55:42,720 --> 02:55:44,399
scroll through trying to remember all

4139
02:55:44,399 --> 02:55:46,080
those it would help this old guy. I

4140
02:55:46,080 --> 02:55:47,279
don't know about these young guys with

4141
02:55:47,279 --> 02:55:48,720
their smart brains but

4142
02:55:48,720 --> 02:55:50,560
>> Yep. Good. That's that's great feedback

4143
02:55:50,560 --> 02:55:52,640
on how we organize the agenda. Thank

4144
02:55:52,640 --> 02:55:54,800
you.

4145
02:55:54,800 --> 02:55:56,000
>> I'm just getting old.

4146
02:55:56,000 --> 02:55:57,760
>> That's okay. We try to have the

4147
02:55:57,760 --> 02:55:59,439
conditions of approval at the bottom

4148
02:55:59,439 --> 02:56:02,080
near your, you know, stated conditions

4149
02:56:02,080 --> 02:56:04,640
and sometimes they're caveed with like

4150
02:56:04,640 --> 02:56:06,399
this is one that staff doesn't really

4151
02:56:06,399 --> 02:56:07,600
know. The planning commission needs to

4152
02:56:07,600 --> 02:56:09,359
weigh in on the height of this fence or

4153
02:56:09,359 --> 02:56:11,200
location of it. But I think that's a

4154
02:56:11,200 --> 02:56:12,880
great great feature. It might make it

4155
02:56:12,880 --> 02:56:14,960
easier for the residents who don't want

4156
02:56:14,960 --> 02:56:17,120
to go through all four 40 pages to get

4157
02:56:17,120 --> 02:56:19,040
to the recommendations at the end.

4158
02:56:19,040 --> 02:56:20,800
>> Why don't they want to read it all?

4159
02:56:20,800 --> 02:56:22,640
>> You know, I don't know because it's the

4160
02:56:22,640 --> 02:56:24,800
best reading I do every week.

4161
02:56:24,800 --> 02:56:28,550
>> I agree.

4162
02:56:28,560 --> 02:56:30,319
It's it's really good feedback and I

4163
02:56:30,319 --> 02:56:31,920
know you know there's finding

4164
02:56:31,920 --> 02:56:33,840
departments that do PowerPoint

4165
02:56:33,840 --> 02:56:36,800
presentations and break it out and we we

4166
02:56:36,800 --> 02:56:40,240
try to simplify and write you know brief

4167
02:56:40,240 --> 02:56:42,640
staff reports that capture the issues.

4168
02:56:42,640 --> 02:56:44,399
Sometimes they're just long site plan

4169
02:56:44,399 --> 02:56:45,840
applications are long. There's a lot of

4170
02:56:45,840 --> 02:56:47,279
code to go through. So

4171
02:56:47,279 --> 02:56:48,880
>> just tell Chad GBT to give you an

4172
02:56:48,880 --> 02:56:52,319
executive summary and be done. Rock,

4173
02:56:52,319 --> 02:56:56,720
>> I refu do not use chat GBT.

4174
02:56:56,720 --> 02:56:58,560
>> No, I I I know I criticized a little

4175
02:56:58,560 --> 02:57:01,279
bit. No, I appreciate what Scott and

4176
02:57:01,279 --> 02:57:04,319
Ryan really do and their notes and their

4177
02:57:04,319 --> 02:57:07,040
staff comments. I mean, it it helps out

4178
02:57:07,040 --> 02:57:10,309
a lot.

4179
02:57:10,319 --> 02:57:12,399
Oh.