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Board meeting of May 2nd. The first item on the agenda is a public hearing for what was once

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known as Fuelco is now called North Salem Food Mart. Donna, I'd like confirmation that

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the notice appeared in the newspaper and have you received the confirmation from the applicant

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of notice to neighbors. Thank you. I'm going to give a very quick history of this and then ask

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Kevin, let me say Masiovecchio, to take over.

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So just for everybody's edification, this applicant, this application is for the event

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and gas station, that is at the corner of Filslein and Hardscrable Road.

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The fact that it closed down for more than a year meant that it needed a use variance from

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the Board of Appeals. We actually worked very closely with the ARB, the Board of Appeals,

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and all the other involved agencies to come to a conclusion in an approvals a year ago.

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But absent the approval from the city, the applicant came in and wanted to do some slight

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modifications to the main building on this site. And that is what's prompted this current

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review and this public hearing. So with that, Kevin, would you please introduce

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anybody who's here tonight on behalf of the applicant and then give us a quick

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overview on the changes. Great. Good evening. I'm Kevin Meshevecchio with the

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JMC and here tonight is Giuseppe, the project architect and Sam Oli, as well

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the tenant. And we're here to open the public hearing tonight and we're here to

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that the previous meeting and if there are any other questions with the site plans we're

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here to answer them and we're here to answer any questions you may have with the building

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or any other changes since the last meeting.

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Okay and is there any there aren't any members of the public here for this tonight now?

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Let's see that. So at the last meeting we actually re-issued the negative declaration and we also

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So it was either the last meeting or the one before it.

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We, the planning board, were happy with everything that was being proposed.

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We've sent you over to the Board of Appeals for the few variances that you need.

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And more importantly, we've sent you over to the Architectural Review Board because, unlike

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the previously designed building, the one that was presented to us most recently, last one

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we saw.

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Has severe absence of windows and R2 viewsheds that we were concerned about was the frontage

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on field's lane and the side that faces hard-scrable road?

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So I believe that you've gone over to the architecture view board and you're still in the middle

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of that conversation with that?

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Yes.

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I think you guys might have received a plan that we sent over today and I was going to ask

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So just have to come up and explain a little more,

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if you guys will like.

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OK, you can do that, but we're not going to get too involved.

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We really want you to finish up with the ARB.

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But sure, come on up and do a quick one.

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Just grab a new one.

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Do

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you want me to reduce this or show anything else?

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Just let me know.

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Yeah, no, I mean, the main facade is this.

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So, as you can see, the big difference from the previous elevation was we had the glasses,

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we had the windows on the size of the main entrance and also the pavement on the main entrance

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above with the cupola on top. So in this way, we just reflected and respect

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towards the previous meeting, the comments, what was. This is the typical

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architecture, maybe also in this area. And on the right, on the left side we

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Yeah, they'll also the windowed.

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You added the window.

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The windowed.

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So, I mean, just one minute, Mike.

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What's important to us is that we

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see that you are going to maintain some stone

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to the front, and these are remains.

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And you're still working with the ARB.

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The one thing I do want to point out to you

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is when you go back to the ARB and you start working with them

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through all of these features, you should really pull up

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the last one that was approved and review what the-

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Board of Appeals said, because I think they had some commentary on it too. I don't think we really want to get too involved with it. We'd much rather see you finish your work with the ARB. Get them to a point where they really like the character of this building that it reflects what we're looking for for North Salem and then come back to us with that. Mike Palmer, the chair of the ARB is here. Mike, go ahead. Sure.

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Yes, it is and you know what I want to show you Mike which the reason I really don't

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want us to get too involved with this right now is we're missing we saw the March 14th.

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I think you saw another version and now this is another version based on your comments.

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So, I think what the ARB did last time, you know, the planning board was very happy with,

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I mean, the memory serves me right.

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I think the zoning board of appeals weren't too happy with the cupola.

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And that's that.

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So, we'll leave it to your board to continue.

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Yeah, and they're going to go, when are you going to the...

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May 10th.

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May 10th.

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So they're going to be going over to the ZBA before or after they go back to you.

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I don't think we have any schedule just yet because of the action.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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I mean, you know, I think to make sure that this doesn't keep bouncing back and forth, maybe

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you want to communicate with the ZBA, that you are still working with the applicant on this.

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If you don't have a meeting before May 10th, because I'd hate to see the ARB make changes and

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and then you guys,

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no, I don't want to be the one.

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I don't want to do a lot of this needs,

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but I feel like you don't want to sell it.

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Yeah.

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So is there anything else that any clinical or number

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wants to add or just let this day out,

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be here with they gonna do?

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Do you have the virtual plan?

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I probably have a good call it up.

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You want to even know what we're talking about?

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I'm not sure.

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Well, no, his office did it.

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Well, maybe his office,

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but he did it some of the time.

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Let me see.

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And Mark's also is my ear, so Mark sends Kevin and Fred and said to me, to say, yeah, and that part of the comment has been from the same officer.

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I know they're from the same office, but they haven't talked.

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So basically all the changes that happen to the building is because we actually change

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the size of the building so everything has to change with it.

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And instead of having a square building, now we have a rectangle building.

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So the plan that was submitted or the elevation that was submitted with the change, all

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it is just the stretched that building and they kept the same amount of windows there.

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So originally with the square building, the glass was about 90% of the face.

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But when they switched it, they just put walls, so we need to add more glass there.

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So we did.

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And that's what we did.

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They made the windows on the side.

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So we did put windows on the side.

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So this is the original one that was there.

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This is the original one.

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Yeah, so when we switch it out, and we also have, like, for our locations, like, almost,

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It's like an image that we have for all our location that reflects our, yeah, so we tried

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to change that design just to fit North Salamloch.

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So our original design does not have, you know, millions on the, so we had to put millions

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on the glass to make it fit.

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Our design did not have that bond look so we added a bond look and they have to make it look good.

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I will. Thank you.

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So we're going to leave the public hearing open. We have to wait for the board of appeals to consider the variances. We have to wait for the architecture board to get back to us on the building design. And then you'll be back in front of us. Great. Thank you. Any of the board members and any more questions?

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questions at this point.

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Get going with construction, I think.

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Thank you.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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The next item.

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Yes.

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No, no.

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Okay. Thank you, Mike.

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The next item on the agenda under pre-applications.

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Michael Ligori asked that we carry the Abrams.

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There's a lot of changes over to the next meeting because he could not be here tonight, so we're going to move to number three, which is a proposed two lot subdivision on a lot on Holly Road.

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We have Barry Naderman representing the apple.

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Yes, good evening, folks.

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Barry Native and Native Land Planning and Engineering.

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I'm also pleased to be a resident in North Salem.

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And we're here tonight for a 29.8 acre parcel on Holy Road,

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which we're going to see in a moment.

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Going to reduce it, because I'm going to ask you a few questions

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about your calculations here.

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Oh, okay.

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Since I have it here, my curiosity was when you were putting up

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These areas is this representing 100% or they're 50% that you use for the reduction

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No, what we're no what we're doing is we're showing that once we once we deduct the wetlands and the steep slopes

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That's why it's wondering okay, and then I thought that after the deduct I thought it was written that you deduct those and

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the net light area has to be more than 50 percent of the minimum light requirement.

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But either way, both lot, we can recalculate that.

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Both lots are well.

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So just reread this.

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Both lots are well.

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Maybe I was right.

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Yeah.

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Well and compliance.

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I know we're used to seeing that there's a certain percentage of well-lanciductive and certain

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percentage of steep, closely ducted and then whatever your net light acreage has to meet

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the minimum light area.

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And I'm kind of going through this.

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So that chart is showing the total wetland area,

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the total steep slope.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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That's all I need to talk about.

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So let me go back and put it up so you can talk about it.

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I'm going to reduce it a little bit.

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Sure.

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You're driving.

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Well, I'm going to get it up for you.

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And then you're going to take over.

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There we go.

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really even smaller.

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There we go.

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So the overall property is 29.882 acres

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and then R4 acres in the family residence.

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Holy Road is up top,

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doesn't work on there, up top up there.

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And the existing property consists of,

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to the left, the existing residence and tennis court

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and pool and amenities and driveway access.

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And what we're proposing to do is spin off

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a 7.8 acre lot for residents that would have access off of an existing driveway on the

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property that serves the adjoining residents and in this way there's no new curb cuts or

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accesses off of Holy Road and minimizes obviously the disturbance to the site and so on. We have

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steve slopes are represented in the shaded areas so where there's no impact to any steve slopes whatsoever

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and also in the bottom right-hand corner of that lot, we have a small potential wetland.

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And we do know that we're going to have to get, you know, full surveys of wetland

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delineation and verification and soil testing for the septics and so on and so forth.

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But we're here tonight to just get the initial impression of the board.

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So we can move forward with the serious stuff.

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So

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this is the existing driveway that currently serves the neighbor, so he has an easement over.

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Yes, I believe he does. That's one thing that we have to verify, but the driveway is clearly on our property.

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He doesn't have a necessary apartment as well, does he? Oh, I don't know that answer. I could certainly find out.

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that's making us rethink all of this.

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But the way this stands is just gonna be

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pre-existing driveway to serve two houses.

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Correct.

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I mean, we can go to the,

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well, not that they would show that there's an apartment there,

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but if the aerial photograph down below

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might help us see just what's going on on that adjoining property.

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No, I guess the only question is,

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if it's serving two residences,

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The question is if you bring a third residence under the driveway do you have to bring that driveway up to a different standard?

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Right, fine.

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He just sent all of this over.

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I think it's digestible.

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Okay.

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That's the existing residence on the existing residence on the existing property.

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And his driveway leaves around like this.

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Oh,

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no, there was just a general question about whether or not how many residences there were on the joining property.

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So the driveway for the pre-existing home over here is way over here?

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Yes.

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So it's a pretty simple two-lots subdivision?

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We think so.

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A lot of self-dividing is vacant?

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Yes.

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Well, no, the lot where sub-dividing has the existing residents,

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but the lot that we're creating is vacant, yes.

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Is that

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a joining residence in the town of Loisboro or is it in the town of North Salem?

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No, that's still in the town of North Salem.

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That black line is the town line.

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Yeah, it seems to be bisected.

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Yeah, there's a survey seem to show there's about a ten foot sliver in the back that is over the line.

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Well, that's an interesting question.

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We're not doing anything but...

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You're talking about this part down here.

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Yeah, that little sliver in the back.

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What we've done, we've done a node jurisdiction approval.

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I don't know if Lou Sprow does reciprocate the same way.

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You don't have to find out.

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You're really not creating anything.

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Now, would you are redefining the property in the description?

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Well, for one reason, the existing residence has a tennis court that's right there, that

236
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:31,060
we have to meet the side yard setback, so we can't bring that lot line further over.

237
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:31,460
Yeah.

238
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:37,700
And plus, you don't want to compromise the value of that live, either by encroaching on it

239
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:38,660
too much.

240
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:39,660
Yeah.

241
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:43,290
This line?

242
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:46,550
Oh, yeah.

243
00:18:46,890 --> 00:18:48,150
That's just a tile on the area.

244
00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:53,930
It's just the, the, the areas come in panels and it's just the edge of one of the panels

245
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:54,470
of the area.

246
00:18:54,750 --> 00:18:54,850
Yep.

247
00:18:58,380 --> 00:19:01,180
I'm going to bring the, I'll bring the subterge map back up.

248
00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:14,440
So this is what I had up before which shows that you're meeting all of the, the bulk requirements

249
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:21,220
of the code and this is how you calculated the net area of the lots and so this is a hundred

250
00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:21,560
percent.

251
00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:22,900
Right.

252
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:24,100
And

253
00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:37,270
when we get an update survey, we'll see exactly if the town line is indeed over the property line.

254
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:46,090
Yeah, because this is the town line.

255
00:19:48,990 --> 00:19:51,590
Well, the existing pool looks like it might be over the line.

256
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:51,850
Yep.

257
00:19:52,610 --> 00:19:53,730
Yep.

258
00:19:54,290 --> 00:19:54,890
And

259
00:19:58,860 --> 00:20:00,000
before, more time is coming.

260
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:21,100
Okay. And by the way, just another simple note, where we are coming off that existing driveway, there is sort of a little wood road path between those between those two steep slopes that that extend up into the house side. Yeah. So there'll be very little grading going on in there as well.

261
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:29,540
Do you know the grade of the existing driveway? Is it meet our code off fan? I don't, but I'll check on that.

262
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,440
But everything else you're designing will meet the code. Oh, sure.

263
00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:44,570
Is this a propote like a

264
00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:47,310
turnaround area? Yeah, it's a front motor cord.

265
00:20:51,930 --> 00:20:53,710
I don't have any other questions

266
00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:54,510
anybody else.

267
00:20:56,550 --> 00:21:00,570
So I assume you're going to move forward with an application for

268
00:21:00,570 --> 00:21:00,870
separation.

269
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:06,690
Unless you're going to be compelling reason why not?

270
00:21:09,580 --> 00:21:16,220
Unless Lewis Barrow says Barrow. All right, so I'm going to have you stay at the podium

271
00:21:16,220 --> 00:21:22,260
because we're going to bring out the next item on the agenda which is a grant

272
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,580
road property. And I'm

273
00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:30,830
still barren at them and I'm normally planning an

274
00:21:30,830 --> 00:21:31,090
engineering.

275
00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:38,700
Alright we are in the R2 zoning district now on grant road.

276
00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:48,590
Correct. Here we have 15.38 acres in the R2 zone and again there's an existing

277
00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:50,690
residents that we see and

278
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:59,270
existing residents and tennis court closer to the road and an

279
00:21:59,270 --> 00:22:05,410
existing pool in the rear. And in the very back of the property there's a very low-lying

280
00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:15,870
floodplain wetland, don't go near it, type area. So you know we're certainly we're going to be

281
00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:23,490
creating this 4.7 acre lot, which will, again,

282
00:22:23,650 --> 00:22:25,070
orient everybody.

283
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:25,330
Okay.

284
00:22:25,850 --> 00:22:27,370
And this is the Titicus River.

285
00:22:27,550 --> 00:22:31,110
And on the other side is the ball field behind the No Semifire House.

286
00:22:32,050 --> 00:22:34,530
So it looks like across the river from the ball field.

287
00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:36,870
Okay.

288
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:41,570
So, I mean, you really can't see anything from the ball field because it's all of this woods.

289
00:22:43,290 --> 00:22:45,550
And yes, the Titicus River goes on the back of the property.

290
00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:50,910
And when you're on Grant Road, this tennis court is the one that has all those pine trees around it.

291
00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:51,370
Right.

292
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:55,610
This is kind of stands out because it's like the only pine trees in the area.

293
00:22:57,010 --> 00:22:59,530
By the intersection with June Road or...

294
00:22:59,530 --> 00:23:00,430
It's south of...

295
00:23:00,430 --> 00:23:06,750
June would be over here, going up and down, and Grant Road would come up and meet 116, which goes across the top.

296
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:09,390
So if I bring this location map back up,

297
00:23:10,270 --> 00:23:19,150
This is June. This is Grant Road 121, taking you up to Titicus Road going across. So it's

298
00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:23,150
like in the middle of that triangle. And here is the firehouse.

299
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:34,090
And on this lot, we do have a wetland slash watercourse that traverses across the frontage

300
00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:39,370
of the property. So what we're looking to do for access here to avoid any additional

301
00:23:39,370 --> 00:23:46,170
crossings of the wetland slash water course. There was a subdivision next door

302
00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:56,310
that had a driveway proposed as shown and once it gets across that crossing we

303
00:23:56,310 --> 00:24:01,130
could readily come off of that location and come in and access the

304
00:24:01,130 --> 00:24:07,290
additional residence without impacting the crossing again and the crossing is

305
00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:13,770
actually is actually there. The Breiter Trail Association has a trail that comes

306
00:24:13,770 --> 00:24:18,110
off along that driveway and there is a culvert in head walls and filled that

307
00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:22,630
are across the watercourse at this point. I don't know when that was done it was

308
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:29,730
like that when they bought the property but that is existing and again we'll have

309
00:24:29,730 --> 00:24:34,290
full surveys and well-inverification and so on.

310
00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:36,950
That's in this area?

311
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:37,550
Yes.

312
00:24:37,910 --> 00:24:39,390
That's the existing crossing.

313
00:24:40,030 --> 00:24:43,170
But just to be clear, this driveway was never built.

314
00:24:43,790 --> 00:24:46,070
No, but it's a trail.

315
00:24:46,450 --> 00:24:47,170
It is a trail now.

316
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:48,250
But it was never built.

317
00:24:48,670 --> 00:24:48,850
Correct.

318
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:53,770
Do you know the accrued plans for that include an upgrade to that call for crossing?

319
00:24:55,670 --> 00:24:59,950
No, I think the cover crossing came after the...

320
00:25:13,060 --> 00:25:23,560
That was on the planning board when this was re-established. And we didn't go through a full review because

321
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,820
it was like a pre-existing lot with a resetting, I think it had a lot line with that.

322
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:31,400
Yes, I think it was a lot line change, yeah.

323
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,500
Yeah, so it was given that it was a pre-existing lot.

324
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,000
And do you know if they're crossing existed at that time?

325
00:25:38,380 --> 00:25:42,660
Well, this is a section of the-

326
00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:43,900
Right, you were kind enough to-

327
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:44,200
That was a mile.

328
00:25:45,020 --> 00:25:49,260
Right, but you were kind enough to give me a copy of that as well.

329
00:25:52,370 --> 00:25:55,810
And I think if I pull the file out of the vault, I'm not going to find any detail.

330
00:26:01,390 --> 00:26:12,190
which kind of makes me ask the question, they're going to have to go through a wetland permit process and kind of reestablish that this driveway is viable as proposed.

331
00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:17,210
It's been a long time since those wetlands were looked at and verified.

332
00:26:19,230 --> 00:26:22,150
It's going to be where it's going to land, but we don't know that.

333
00:26:22,370 --> 00:26:27,770
And we do know that there's going to be improvements within 100 feet of the wetland, so therefore absolutely a wetland permit.

334
00:26:28,270 --> 00:26:38,910
I mean, this is obviously only a one little piece of the entire puzzle of that application, but one of the things I noted is that it doesn't even recognize if there's a stream or on the map.

335
00:26:39,270 --> 00:26:39,370
Right.

336
00:26:39,370 --> 00:26:45,070
But it doesn't mean the other maps don't, but that's kind of interesting.

337
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:49,990
Very approach to the owner about getting the needs and to use them.

338
00:26:52,030 --> 00:26:54,730
Yes, and there is the ability to do that.

339
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:56,170
It's the same owner, isn't it?

340
00:26:57,010 --> 00:26:57,110
No.

341
00:26:57,250 --> 00:27:00,390
Different LLCs but the underlying owner is the same.

342
00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:04,620
That won't be an issue.

343
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:05,500
It won't be an issue.

344
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:06,100
The

345
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,920
line is not simply as before we put the subdivision

346
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,740
in light for a little better understanding of that right way.

347
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:17,320
It needs to be done to make it.

348
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:18,400
Yes.

349
00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:19,740
Oh, sure.

350
00:27:20,020 --> 00:27:20,940
I've been here again.

351
00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:21,700
I'll ask about the other one.

352
00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:22,900
About that drive line.

353
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,920
We need surveys, designs, wetland verification.

354
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:26,520
Yeah.

355
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,260
I'll make you know the simultaneously with the subdivision.

356
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,360
Not only that, this is going to be a DOT permit here, because this is a state road.

357
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:36,380
We would need improvements.

358
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:41,260
So that we don't know if the DOT ever approved the cut where it is.

359
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,260
So we have to do that.

360
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,220
Is there a wood road there or is it just a cold report?

361
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:47,840
It's done.

362
00:27:49,260 --> 00:27:50,680
Do you want to hear us?

363
00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:52,120
This is what's there now.

364
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:53,200
This.

365
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,120
It's a trail.

366
00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:55,720
There you go.

367
00:27:57,460 --> 00:28:01,540
Fine, I just wanted to go back to the map if it isn't all that developed.

368
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:02,620
That's the actual

369
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:11,080
Yeah, okay, you have the area, so we'll see if there's more of us.

370
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:12,060
Yeah, sure.

371
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:17,200
How do you just want me to take the driveway section?

372
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:22,740
It wasn't developed today, and I don't know, but out walking in and out and seeing the grade doesn't look terrible.

373
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:31,440
I wonder if there's an opportunity to redefine not the Cobra crossing, but where that driveway comes in and how

374
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,860
I don't maybe get it further out of the buffer.

375
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:34,640
This one?

376
00:28:34,980 --> 00:28:37,460
Not that portion, that portion.

377
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:38,080
Okay.

378
00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:41,900
I don't know if that's a null or something that's going on

379
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:44,860
that pushes you down there, but you know,

380
00:28:44,860 --> 00:28:46,920
whether it's something better here.

381
00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:50,620
Walking it, yeah, walking it is my recollection.

382
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,940
It's really pretty gentle through there.

383
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:54,860
But what was it that?

384
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,540
Yeah, the more you can get away from the wetlands,

385
00:28:57,140 --> 00:28:57,960
maybe the better.

386
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,440
I don't know about the site when you have a good site.

387
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:02,900
Sure.

388
00:29:04,180 --> 00:29:11,480
I mean, one of the earlier things you want to do is to have someone state the wetland

389
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,060
and have it verified by our wetland.

390
00:29:13,140 --> 00:29:13,500
Absolutely.

391
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:20,820
So as soon as you file the application, that would trigger us sending the wetlands inspector

392
00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:21,220
out.

393
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,880
Well, we'd probably somehow find a way to do that in advance because when we, you know,

394
00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:31,820
if we're going to be getting some surveys, we'd certainly want to have that delegation

395
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:32,600
verified.

396
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,820
They put on a survey, don't go out and verify the line before the app.

397
00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:39,240
It's just that we haven't established an S.

398
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:39,420
Why?

399
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,680
They would sort of do that.

400
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:41,300
They would have done that before.

401
00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:41,860
Okay.

402
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,200
We would have.

403
00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:47,440
If you want to do it under this pre-app, we don't have an S-grow on it, do we?

404
00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:51,700
Okay, so yeah, we'll work off of that.

405
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:53,720
You might have to supplement the escrow.

406
00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:54,040
Sure.

407
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,220
So he'll go ahead, Frank.

408
00:29:58,540 --> 00:29:59,960
Yeah, I just want to say it's a-

409
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Establishing that driver almost knew, I mean, in terms of the culture and its capacity. So I think you need to analyze and let us know. Make sure whoever put that there was a good size. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know what it's.

410
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:24,870
Exactly. Can the fire truck go over?

411
00:30:28,270 --> 00:30:28,870
Yeah.

412
00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:32,810
Yeah. This is the

413
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,400
I

414
00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:55,760
mean, the conundrum on that is that if it wasn't there today, that pie would be different.

415
00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:00,610
Well, if it needs improvement.

416
00:31:01,130 --> 00:31:05,090
Well, we would have piloted this on a fondness project.

417
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:06,630
Is that right?

418
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:09,170
Yeah, but I'm trying to get that equated.

419
00:31:09,970 --> 00:31:10,310
No, it's better.

420
00:31:10,570 --> 00:31:11,910
I'm just nervous.

421
00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:12,810
I can't wait to start.

422
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:13,350
Right.

423
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:14,190
The

424
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:32,280
board have any more comments or suggestions at this point before they file a formal application?

425
00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:40,680
Just about that big wetland, I think the river, I guess, associated wetlands, put it in the back.

426
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:48,600
I need to show the one that's 100-year-old coin, and see how that impacts that.

427
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:58,980
The earlier plot had actually prescribed for this from the 70s, but the earlier plot had actually prescribed that as

428
00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:04,140
being a proximate bottom of Steve Bank.

429
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,800
Is that this one, the bottom land?

430
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:10,400
Yes, the bottom land was correct.

431
00:32:11,140 --> 00:32:15,300
And then there's the Southern vision had a building and encroachment line.

432
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:27,040
But we do want the pipeline line, shall we?

433
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:36,530
Would the applicant, here come the microphones.

434
00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:41,570
There's no conservation easement back here now.

435
00:32:41,850 --> 00:32:43,550
Would the applicant consider that?

436
00:32:44,390 --> 00:32:53,350
Probably, I think the plan does have restrictions on what is noted as the bottom area, so I don't know if that.

437
00:32:53,770 --> 00:33:13,470
So if we could formalize that in a conservation easement, because most of the lands to the west have conservation easements in one form or another, especially along the Titicus, our goal was to form a whole strip of conservation easements along the Titicus from June Road.

438
00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:18,610
over, and we accomplished quite a bit of that over the years with the different subdivision,

439
00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:18,910
so.

440
00:33:19,230 --> 00:33:20,290
Yeah, I don't want to be nice.

441
00:33:20,570 --> 00:33:22,990
I can't fathom that that would be much of an issue.

442
00:33:23,370 --> 00:33:23,710
Thank you.

443
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,420
So, this slide is from another subdivision, or are you talking about the neighboring

444
00:33:32,420 --> 00:33:32,740
lots?

445
00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:38,220
Possibly misunderstanding the question.

446
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:40,320
The subject lot?

447
00:33:40,780 --> 00:33:40,960
Yes.

448
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,580
That you want to subdivide.

449
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:48,060
Is that from another subdivision, or when you were just talking about subdivision and existing

450
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,760
was that on the neighboring property?

451
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,100
No, the area outlined in blue

452
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,780
was part of a subdivision map from 1973.

453
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:02,860
Right, that's right.

454
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:03,480
There's 74.

455
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,920
With the property further up here, right?

456
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,120
In this direction?

457
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,420
So Cindy, you can get me a copy of that.

458
00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:12,860
Correct.

459
00:34:13,060 --> 00:34:15,400
The one parcel that, right, that line

460
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:22,200
is the subdivision of the overall parcel at that time and further to the

461
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:28,720
northeast is another residence and that is on five acres. Was it just the two

462
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:31,400
lots of the vision back then in the 70s? Yes, okay.

463
00:34:40,260 --> 00:34:42,000
Do you have the five map numbers

464
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:55,100
so me one time. 8 2 3. Last my 10. 8 2 3 9. 8 2 3 9. Yes.

465
00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:59,990
Was that the

466
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,100
File, subdivide. This is rake. Oh, yeah, rake.

467
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:07,390
Okay.

468
00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:19,570
For this new

469
00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:28,190
lot, house driveway and also the improvements related to the driveway. How much

470
00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:29,470
We're going to have now.

471
00:35:29,530 --> 00:35:33,270
So everything on this one, I'll be including, you know, proofs.

472
00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:33,630
Sure.

473
00:35:34,030 --> 00:35:34,170
Yeah.

474
00:35:34,270 --> 00:35:34,630
The whole time.

475
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:36,170
It's up to the system.

476
00:35:36,670 --> 00:35:39,590
Is it too late for the trigger for the city?

477
00:35:39,790 --> 00:35:40,570
Is that what we're getting at?

478
00:35:41,250 --> 00:35:41,790
Well, no.

479
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:42,990
It's more flowing now.

480
00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:44,050
And that post-concerction?

481
00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:45,290
One acre of five dozen.

482
00:35:45,550 --> 00:35:47,630
The fee, the city, kicks in too.

483
00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:48,270
Yeah.

484
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:49,070
Yeah.

485
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:51,550
No, it's probably going to be more than an acre of disturbance.

486
00:35:51,590 --> 00:35:56,870
So we'll have to do a full stormwater pollution prevention plan and notice of intent.

487
00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:08,130
I don't. That one was from 2006 and that was just a lot of line change. No, no, he's

488
00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:12,370
talking about the Holly from the 70s. Oh, I'm sorry, Holly Road. Same question there.

489
00:36:13,490 --> 00:36:17,730
That actually, you know, I'll have to take a look at that. But if it's over Naker, we'll obviously

490
00:36:17,730 --> 00:36:19,090
address it fully.

491
00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:23,410
Yes, for stormwater.

492
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:26,850
Yes, we're aware of those.

493
00:36:26,850 --> 00:36:27,290
Yes.

494
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,520
When I part of the submission, you'll have to submit a proposed easement agreement to

495
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:42,640
the driveway.

496
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,360
And I think we'd like to see the one that exists for the other driveway.

497
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:48,820
Boy road.

498
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:49,120
Yeah.

499
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,740
Anything else in the board?

500
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,440
I'm sorry?

501
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:02,840
Go and send no more.

502
00:37:03,820 --> 00:37:04,400
I'm sorry?

503
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:04,760
Darn.

504
00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:07,480
All right folks.

505
00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:07,780
Great.

506
00:37:08,060 --> 00:37:08,540
Thank you so much.

507
00:37:08,740 --> 00:37:09,020
Thank you.

508
00:37:09,140 --> 00:37:10,620
Thank you very much.

509
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:16,850
Thank you very much.

510
00:37:18,980 --> 00:37:20,560
These are several of the details.

511
00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:22,560
What's that?

512
00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:31,220
Next item on the agenda is the farmer's fish.

513
00:37:34,330 --> 00:37:35,630
So did you need this back?

514
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:37,010
You may have that.

515
00:37:43,420 --> 00:37:45,260
Do you go fishing for the farmer and the fish?

516
00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:54,530
Okay.

517
00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:57,710
So we're going to consider a waiver of site plan.

518
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:04,940
It's Mike here tonight. Mike is here tonight.

519
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,000
You want to go up to the microphone.

520
00:38:07,220 --> 00:38:08,580
Both owners are here tonight.

521
00:38:08,580 --> 00:38:12,620
And Taylor and Mike Caffin, let me get this up.

522
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,260
So I think all everybody knows is familiar with the farmer and the fish restaurant.

523
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:31,280
This happens to be a structure on the local and the state registry of historic places.

524
00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:35,500
Where's the, let me get up the big one, here we go.

525
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,160
So a few years ago, we approved this site plan.

526
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,460
and here's the actual restaurant building.

527
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,060
And in the back there's already one cooler,

528
00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:51,420
and they're proposing to put a second walk-in cooler here.

529
00:38:52,220 --> 00:38:54,580
There's fencing that offers nice screening,

530
00:38:55,420 --> 00:38:57,020
fencing here and fencing there.

531
00:38:57,260 --> 00:38:58,240
It's behind the building.

532
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:02,140
There is a 10 foot perimeter that they have to stay away

533
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:05,760
from, which was set by the Historic Preservation Commission

534
00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:10,080
to protect the building, and they are away from that.

535
00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:21,960
Somewhere I have the height of this cooler and Mike, you mentioned that maybe some of the equipment that you originally thought was going to be on the top, you know, long ago put on the top so could you address that?

536
00:39:22,740 --> 00:39:34,160
There's two condensers that were shown to be on the top and I think it would be best off if we actually attached them to the side, the right side where they'd be screened.

537
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,300
Yeah, where they'd be screened by the fences, that's why even as you drive down the road you can't see the cool

538
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:43,740
Or you don't want to see the condensers on the roof either. So you want to see them over the fence. Correct. Yeah

539
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,800
One thing that we did notice is that there are two

540
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:53,360
Propane above ground propane tanks here and I spoke to the building inspector

541
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:59,880
I was trying to they're not on the last approved site plan, but I had a conversation with Mike and he confirmed that when

542
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:28,880
The restaurant opened. Smaller tanks were replaced with these. So it was an oversight that this wasn't shown on the previous approved site plan. So I think by our action tonight, if the board is immutable, we would just acknowledge that those were changed out and they are on the site. Because this document that he sent us is actually equivalent of an as-built. It's a current survey from November of 2017. So it's showing us all the improvements.

543
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,720
It's up until now.

544
00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:43,000
As far as I can understand, this cooler will meet all the criteria for the Board to consider

545
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,680
a waiver of the site plan procedures.

546
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,520
It's an as of right use, the restaurant is an as of right use.

547
00:40:49,220 --> 00:40:51,280
It's very small, et cetera.

548
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,040
Do we have to notify the one neighbor?

549
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:04,600
The neighbor is the landlord, and he's already signed off on the application that everyone

550
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:06,180
should have a copy of.

551
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,780
He technically is the applicant.

552
00:41:13,220 --> 00:41:21,860
Yeah, the owner of record has actually leased the land to another party and there's a lot

553
00:41:21,860 --> 00:41:24,260
a lot of parties involved in this piece of property.

554
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:33,980
The one other thing that I spoke to Mike about is this odd piece of property is actually

555
00:41:33,980 --> 00:41:39,840
has professional office zoning in the front and it has R1 zoning in the back.

556
00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:47,900
The restaurant as part of its operation has been creating more and

557
00:41:47,900 --> 00:42:05,420
more gardens to produce food for the restaurant, and the latest addition was sheep, and since you're in an R1 zone, I pointed out to the applicant that he's going to have to go to the board of appeals for the keeping of more than two sheep.

558
00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:11,700
So I would just make it a condition of this waiver that they take care of that matter.

559
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:21,640
We don't get involved with that use in any way shape of form, it's an accessory use as

560
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:22,980
of right in the R1 zone.

561
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,680
So it's just a matter of being able to have as many of the little critters that they

562
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:29,100
would like.

563
00:42:29,260 --> 00:42:29,880
How many are you going to have?

564
00:42:30,540 --> 00:42:30,900
I'm sorry.

565
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:31,920
How many are you going to have?

566
00:42:32,380 --> 00:42:33,660
We have 15.

567
00:42:35,220 --> 00:42:36,660
I thought how many are you going to keep?

568
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:37,640
Three.

569
00:42:39,860 --> 00:42:40,240
There's 12.

570
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:41,380
We're going to be served for dinner.

571
00:42:41,380 --> 00:42:49,820
Mr. Timber yeah it's like a rotating crop exactly yeah every spring you got them they

572
00:42:49,820 --> 00:42:55,040
graze how tall is the walking cooler I know Cynthia asked I'm looking at the

573
00:42:55,040 --> 00:43:02,100
plans I think I can bring it up there was a drawing up yeah I see it's 14 it

574
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:10,760
looks like it's 14 by 8 feet length and width I can't see the height I actually turned

575
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,300
I've learned in technical drawing, I believe.

576
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:14,900
I'm sure you did.

577
00:43:16,780 --> 00:43:17,700
Give me a second.

578
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:21,120
There we go.

579
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:21,520
There we go.

580
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:22,820
It's on this one.

581
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:24,040
It's eight foot.

582
00:43:24,540 --> 00:43:25,540
He's seven, six and a half.

583
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:26,540
Seven, six and a half.

584
00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:26,900
Yeah, okay.

585
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:31,770
That's the overall type.

586
00:43:33,530 --> 00:43:33,710
Yep.

587
00:43:37,150 --> 00:43:37,870
This is the door.

588
00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:38,850
I got this.

589
00:43:38,990 --> 00:43:39,270
I should.

590
00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:40,130
Correct.

591
00:43:40,330 --> 00:43:42,390
Make it life easier for people in roadtapes.

592
00:43:44,610 --> 00:43:45,130
There you go.

593
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:54,560
Not a pretty building, but it's way in the back and it's all screened.

594
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:55,780
And it's fencing.

595
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:03,540
So does anyone have a problem with my fashioning a resolution to wave site plan approval for

596
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:03,700
this?

597
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,000
No, I just want to have one of the quick questions.

598
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:06,760
Sure, go ahead.

599
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,240
You propane tanks.

600
00:44:09,460 --> 00:44:09,980
Yes.

601
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:15,400
The distance criteria from any electrical 10 foot minimum.

602
00:44:15,780 --> 00:44:19,340
And that's what you have with the condensers.

603
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,860
Yes, there will be 10 foot minimum.

604
00:44:20,860 --> 00:44:24,720
Currently, yes, there's two, it's there.

605
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,140
I was actually going to make that a condition of the waiver.

606
00:44:27,140 --> 00:44:30,760
30, 40 feet from the building, and yeah, the tanks were inspected.

607
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:34,000
Okay, as long as you meet the criteria for separation.

608
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:35,180
Yes, that's not it.

609
00:44:35,900 --> 00:44:40,740
Yeah, since Paul was not aware that those tanks were there, so I was going to make it a condition

610
00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:45,900
of the waiver that they get a sign off by the building inspector on them.

611
00:44:47,790 --> 00:44:59,630
So I will propose that the North Salem Planning Board grant waiver of site development plan procedures for the addition of a

612
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:10,380
Walk-in cooler and recognition of the pre-existing two of our ground propane tanks with a condition

613
00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:16,880
that the applicant receive a sign-off from the building inspector on the propane tanks

614
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:28,000
and that the applicant proceed with the necessary variance for the keeping of accessory farm

615
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:37,180
animals in the R2 district of the property. I will make that motion do I have a second all in

616
00:45:37,180 --> 00:45:43,520
favor. And when I write it up, it the actual resolution where we reflect all of the documentation

617
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:51,960
that we received and all of the dimensions of that documentation. Thank you. Thank you.

618
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:52,800
They're

619
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:01,100
cute.

620
00:46:01,340 --> 00:46:02,340
You can see them from the road.

621
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,020
All right.

622
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,020
Go for it.

623
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,580
Thank you, gentlemen.

624
00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:15,080
We're still wrestling with this road, gentlemen.

625
00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:16,600
Linda.

626
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:17,980
Madam.

627
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:19,040
Good evening.

628
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:19,920
Good evening.

629
00:46:20,620 --> 00:46:23,580
Linda, would you take a second to introduce everybody to?

630
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:29,020
Linda Whitehead from McCulloch, Alberta, and Stout with me are our engineers, Pete Gregory

631
00:46:29,020 --> 00:46:33,060
and Alan Pilch and our client, Rich Morganty.

632
00:46:33,580 --> 00:46:39,520
We received the memos today, so we haven't had a whole lot of time to go through them.

633
00:46:40,140 --> 00:46:43,840
But there's a number of things that are simple comments that we can address,

634
00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:47,060
and we'll address in our next submission.

635
00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:50,940
But we're happy to talk about the roads some more.

636
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,080
And I'm going to let Alan primarily discuss it.

637
00:46:55,080 --> 00:47:01,320
But I think that we felt that by reducing it further, bringing it down to 11.8 for only

638
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,080
20 feet.

639
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,080
So it's really like a car length or just over a car length.

640
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:13,020
It's really a barely noticeable section that is still over 10%.

641
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,180
We were hoping that would be acceptable.

642
00:47:15,860 --> 00:47:24,100
So Allen did provide some text about why what would happen if it was made 10% did not actually

643
00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:26,640
provide a sketch, but I'm going to let him address it.

644
00:47:26,980 --> 00:47:32,020
Okay. Before you do that, Ellen, I'm just going to, for, you've noticed we have a new board

645
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:39,700
member, Dan Seymour. This property has a lot of history. I just, I used to be a brunette

646
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:43,140
on the planning board a long time ago when this application first came in, but you're from

647
00:47:43,140 --> 00:47:48,080
this brunette without a plan. So that's how long I've been looking at this piece of

648
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:54,080
property, but at one point in time, we were looking at a road from overlook that would

649
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:59,580
only serve four homes. And it's all to road from Oak Ridge Road coming up and serving

650
00:47:59,580 --> 00:48:05,500
four. And we've, as we were getting into the road design in the stormwater, things were

651
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:11,060
getting dicey, as they often are with this piece of property. Once before someone tried

652
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:16,100
to road, taken a highway this way, the high route this way, and that didn't work either.

653
00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:23,140
So this latest one we're exploring resulted in the loss of one lot, so it's now seven

654
00:48:23,140 --> 00:48:23,460
lots.

655
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,700
They're trying to come in and serve them all from here with a private road for seven

656
00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:28,020
lots.

657
00:48:29,220 --> 00:48:34,440
And the other tricky thing that's being thrown into this is the building inspector is reminding

658
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:40,100
us that under the new uniform building, international building code, is that what it is, Frank?

659
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:49,020
That we have to pay attention that our private road specifications may not be up to code with the with of pavement.

660
00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:54,860
And even serving like this driveway here is going to serve three lots.

661
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,680
We might have to take a little closer look at all of those issues.

662
00:49:02,020 --> 00:49:14,280
But just the planning board and Frank absent that we're still looking at and wrestling with the grade, the grade of this road and I'm going to let Alan walk us through the grade of this road.

663
00:49:17,060 --> 00:49:22,080
Well, is that also on the curve though, the steepest part is on the curve, my correct?

664
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:30,400
Yes, let me just say also the road is 20 feet and width from the face of curve to face of curve.

665
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:42,190
That is correct, the steepest portion, if you will, at 11.8% is by 20 feet and it occurs this location here,

666
00:49:42,190 --> 00:49:46,750
which is just after this is the straight section

667
00:49:46,750 --> 00:49:49,430
and that's about where it occurs.

668
00:49:49,590 --> 00:49:51,510
It's just because of the debugger, but that's what happens.

669
00:49:53,530 --> 00:49:55,750
And from there, it's the vertical curve

670
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:59,990
that goes down to under 10% before reaching the cul-de-sac work.

671
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:08,420
It's just under 3%, which is the requirement. And there, as I explained before, and I understand

672
00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:14,760
you were looking for the sketch and I, you know, there were a couple reasons why it seemed

673
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:21,320
more appropriate to leave the design, I'll call it the amended design, we presented the

674
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:31,960
last meeting tapped and not go to like the 10%. The first was that the 10% grade results

675
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:39,180
in was a more fill that's required. If you could look, if you look at the profile, you'll

676
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:45,140
see that what happens is as you're coming off of, there's a rock out crop that's essentially

677
00:50:45,140 --> 00:50:54,460
around here. When you're coming off of it, you're trying to meet rates. If you're starting off, do you want to minimize the

678
00:50:54,460 --> 00:51:04,400
rock type? So what happens is you're saying, you're saying essentially on grade, then descending down the slope. And so by coming down the,

679
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:16,740
down at 11.8%, it's unique rate, closer to rate, more quickly than you would at 10%.

680
00:51:16,990 --> 00:51:23,220
As a result, where it is in closest proximity to the very yards of the houses, on Oak Ridge,

681
00:51:23,220 --> 00:51:34,360
the, if you will, the fill section that would be required for a 10% road in this area

682
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:42,700
right here, and that's about where the maximum amount would be about 50 and a half feet,

683
00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:53,060
whereas with an 11.8% grade going to a, about a 9.8% grade, that fill section

684
00:51:53,060 --> 00:52:01,660
is about 12 feet, and that's a significant amount, because these signs lost from the edge of road

685
00:52:01,660 --> 00:52:07,760
toward, you know, in both directions. So what it does is it pulls the disturbance, if you will,

686
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:14,960
closer to the rear yards of these houses. So it reduces the, you know, the buffering, if you will,

687
00:52:15,100 --> 00:52:20,260
that's provided by the woods, which are present between the rear yards of the houses and this

688
00:52:20,260 --> 00:52:28,860
subdivision road. So not only is the field section taller but there'll be less buffering

689
00:52:28,860 --> 00:52:35,060
if you will from the trees. So that's one reason where it just seems to make more sense

690
00:52:35,060 --> 00:52:46,500
to leave it at 11.8% versus going to a straight 10% road. The other factor too is the impact

691
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:49,820
of a 10% road on the elevation of the cul-de-sac,

692
00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:55,880
and we reviewed that, it would have raised the elevation

693
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,980
of the cul-de-sac by almost 4.75 feet.

694
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:05,760
And what happens, too, is that the driveway grades

695
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,940
to both lots, 6 and 7, they really start approaching

696
00:53:10,940 --> 00:53:11,600
the maximum.

697
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:15,440
Essentially, a level pad coming off of the cul-de-sac,

698
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,400
than descent at the maximum slope to reach the level pad

699
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:20,520
or where the houses are.

700
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,160
And to our way of looking at it,

701
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,440
that's really not acceptable to have both situations

702
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,060
like that.

703
00:53:29,020 --> 00:53:31,440
Each one of those dryways about 250 feet and length.

704
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:40,920
And it's by far the, I'll just say there's less grating

705
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:41,960
on each of those lots.

706
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:48,960
and there's less disturbance on lot six and seven and the driveways become less

707
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:57,300
steep. They're more acceptable on those two lots by leaving the driveway at by

708
00:53:57,300 --> 00:54:08,620
using that you know that segment that's 11.8% to about 9.8%. I don't recall where

709
00:54:08,620 --> 00:54:19,080
where we've left this, if at all, with emergency vehicle and the first responder look at this.

710
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:26,580
I mean, after all that we've been through and the variations on different access points,

711
00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:34,200
this in almost all instances in my view is the best yet,

712
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:42,760
But having such a steep grade, ready to be getting over the end of a meaningful curve is a little worrisome in

713
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:51,620
employment weather when you have icy road conditions, so that's the, I think the only issue, otherwise it's a

714
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:58,320
But I'm going to ask an interesting question to me.

715
00:54:58,880 --> 00:54:59,460
This...

716
00:54:59,460 --> 00:54:59,840
We have

717
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:29,980
Three homes down here, and we have three homes here. The seventh one is straight off of the road. For these three, we're going through the trouble of having this huge cul-de-sac, which is good for the fire equipment and all of that. Does this really work for three homes here? How do the, how do the fire trucks turn around and are they going to be doing all these backing? See, I don't see how they can manipulate

718
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:32,220
over and back up and go down again.

719
00:55:34,410 --> 00:55:37,530
And is it, Frank, is it okay to have a driveway so close

720
00:55:37,530 --> 00:55:40,530
to this road?

721
00:55:41,650 --> 00:55:43,710
I don't think there's anything in the regulations

722
00:55:43,710 --> 00:55:45,330
that prevent that.

723
00:55:46,270 --> 00:55:47,430
But is it good, is it good?

724
00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:48,690
Is it safe?

725
00:55:49,230 --> 00:55:50,690
No, there's no problem with it.

726
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:52,810
The graphic conflict is going,

727
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:54,050
it's not going to be that much trusted.

728
00:55:54,270 --> 00:55:54,470
Okay.

729
00:55:56,890 --> 00:55:59,090
I mean, should I be concerned about fire

730
00:55:59,090 --> 00:56:04,330
with a shared driveway situation versus a cul-de-sac

731
00:56:04,330 --> 00:56:05,750
and individual driveways.

732
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,240
I think we probably have to talk a little bit about

733
00:56:11,730 --> 00:56:16,440
those regulations and how they overlay with this

734
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:17,780
particular situation, too.

735
00:56:20,220 --> 00:56:22,180
You're talking about that universal code, yeah.

736
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:30,200
So, in this particular one, I know what it says in there

737
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,140
about some of these access ways being designed

738
00:56:34,140 --> 00:56:36,580
so that two fire trucks could pass,

739
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,980
but in that situation, I don't think that's

740
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:42,440
what you're looking for.

741
00:56:42,580 --> 00:56:44,460
I thought that was if it's four or more homes.

742
00:56:45,540 --> 00:56:46,480
Yeah, I think it's four more homes.

743
00:56:46,580 --> 00:56:50,400
And this is really only two, because the one comes

744
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,740
a lot off so quickly, so you're really talking about two.

745
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,520
The driveways themselves are shorter than some

746
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,100
of the other driveways that serve only one house.

747
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:06,660
And also, just so we did modify the alignments to accommodate the SU-30, which is shown

748
00:57:06,660 --> 00:57:10,420
in the world we're going to provide to better accommodate them.

749
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:15,640
Yeah, but you're not showing the turning movements so that we can see how it's going to back

750
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,340
up and I work, but I want to see those on there.

751
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,640
Well, I think they would just back up down the driveway.

752
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,640
Well, no, we're looking to see that they don't have to back up.

753
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,520
The only thing is that we have a hammerhead type situation.

754
00:57:25,740 --> 00:57:28,820
We want them to be able to turn around right now to avoid that.

755
00:57:29,940 --> 00:57:32,940
So you're looking more as big or what that would do.

756
00:57:33,900 --> 00:57:34,560
All right, this way.

757
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,120
So like this.

758
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:36,480
Right.

759
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:37,920
So you could use both of those.

760
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:38,420
Right.

761
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,980
We can't have something more creative over here,

762
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,180
rather than all of this.

763
00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:54,340
What's so weird to me is this homeowner, he's going to come in.

764
00:57:54,340 --> 00:57:57,800
And he's not going to go around and go in.

765
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,400
He's going to cut right over and in.

766
00:58:05,830 --> 00:58:07,830
Your code requires the cul-de-sac.

767
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:10,310
And it requires the cul-de-sac of a certain dimension.

768
00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:13,310
So we've complied with the code.

769
00:58:15,470 --> 00:58:17,210
Because it's the end of a private road.

770
00:58:18,930 --> 00:58:19,990
It's the dead end road.

771
00:58:25,220 --> 00:58:26,200
Is it a center island?

772
00:58:26,820 --> 00:58:27,580
Not yet.

773
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:28,920
Are we having a center island?

774
00:58:29,460 --> 00:58:31,240
There's still, or is that always one?

775
00:58:31,620 --> 00:58:32,140
There is one.

776
00:58:32,900 --> 00:58:34,420
What's complicating it now is the fact

777
00:58:34,420 --> 00:58:40,040
there's a turning radius of an SU-30 vehicle being shown on that plan. Just a sort of

778
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:45,840
little strength that it can make the turn, you know, inside. What size vehicle is this?

779
00:58:46,180 --> 00:58:50,960
An SU-30, which is a single unit with a 30-foot long vehicle, it's like an UPS turn.

780
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:58,560
And the grades are such that you really can't connect six and seven. Correct. Yes.

781
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,360
that the grade is right there,

782
00:59:00,580 --> 00:59:01,120
and

783
00:59:07,780 --> 00:59:10,000
wanted we could look to see whether or not

784
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,800
the grade was closer to the year,

785
00:59:13,100 --> 00:59:18,220
you know, closer to where it's still in the...

786
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:20,380
So it's an easier left hand turn?

787
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,300
Yeah, we could take a look at that.

788
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,220
I think that would be...

789
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:26,660
Oh, I don't know.

790
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:27,640
Is that a better design?

791
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:28,780
I'm not sure.

792
00:59:29,540 --> 00:59:32,440
There's something that says that I should try to...

793
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:32,700
Yeah.

794
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:32,900
Yeah.

795
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:35,360
More of a right angle.

796
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:35,940
I know the roads.

797
00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:37,480
It is for roads.

798
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:42,720
Driveways don't get as much traffic.

799
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:43,240
Right.

800
00:59:43,380 --> 00:59:44,780
There's not a lot of traffic at the end there.

801
00:59:45,300 --> 00:59:46,320
Oh, there's no left.

802
00:59:47,580 --> 00:59:47,940
You're going left.

803
00:59:49,180 --> 00:59:50,500
You're just going into the driveway.

804
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,180
A little more confused as well.

805
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:53,860
It's not going to find that way.

806
00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:56,400
It's kind of meld into one.

807
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:57,480
It's not.

808
00:59:58,580 --> 00:59:59,900
You're not dealing with a whole wood.

809
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:24,020
You're doing very limited traffic, right? I mean, but with respect to emergency vehicles coming into lots two and three, I don't know, did I, do we hear anything final on how they're getting? Are they driving in and backing out? That's, that's what we're talking about. There has to be some kind of jumping around on different topics. That's all right.

810
01:00:24,020 --> 01:00:41,600
I mean, we're not thinking, we're talking to a gentleman waiting there, but I mean, what's happening here, that this location actually, the access is, or the, uh, the, uh, the, maybe it's access path to the stormwater, that's what's happening there.

811
01:00:42,100 --> 01:00:43,240
So is it that's dropping?

812
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,400
I mean, you could use the first, you did that as that driveway.

813
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:48,620
Thank you.

814
01:00:48,620 --> 01:00:50,780
It does, the grade is dropping there.

815
01:00:51,540 --> 01:00:55,220
You know, the grade slopes towards the room, or it's above.

816
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:56,760
Well, you got to drop that driveway, too, though.

817
01:00:57,340 --> 01:00:57,640
Correct.

818
01:00:57,900 --> 01:01:02,400
So, you could use the first section of that to go there and then peel off and go to the maintenance.

819
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,080
I mean, you've someone's driveway for the access road for the maintenance.

820
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:13,950
Well, the first point of view or something, I could get access that often.

821
01:01:20,300 --> 01:01:27,880
And just because we were jumping around a little to go back on the issue of the road.

822
01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:32,340
We kind of looked at it as a balance.

823
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,000
We talked about this a little bit last time.

824
01:01:34,260 --> 01:01:40,140
The balance of the impacts of the additional fill and the raising up the cul-de-sac sort

825
01:01:40,140 --> 01:01:46,980
of what happens if we make it 10% versus having this short section, which is now shorter than

826
01:01:46,980 --> 01:01:52,140
it was when we were here last month, and the slope is a little bit less than it was.

827
01:01:53,660 --> 01:02:00,360
So it's really about, you know, your code does give this board the authority to modify

828
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:10,360
that, the 10 percent slightly, so we're within what you're permitted to do, and we've really

829
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:16,360
reduced it out and really looked hard at it and reduced it down to really just about

830
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:24,980
20 feet. So we've really tried to balance the impacts of that versus the impacts of

831
01:02:24,980 --> 01:02:28,400
the additional fill in the call of the second. It just seems like the impacts of trying

832
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,880
to make it 10 percent. The impacts were much greater for not a lot of benefit.

833
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:54,260
Could I say, you're presenting the geometry in just one way and you're focusing on flattening the grade, coming down and adding fill at the bottom, but we would, the Chairman asked specifically last time was to look into the other way, reducing the grade.

834
01:02:54,340 --> 01:02:57,860
And we talked about that, and that's more rock cut. So again, it's part of the balance.

835
01:02:57,980 --> 01:03:01,000
Right. That's what we wanted to see.

836
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:02,600
What kind of we're talking about?

837
01:03:03,420 --> 01:03:10,960
And, you know, the short stretch of 11.8 percent, yes, it's a short stretch, but, again,

838
01:03:13,020 --> 01:03:17,100
it's combined with the vertical curves getting up to that point and coming down.

839
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:24,740
If it wasn't that stretch, you'd have a longer area, you know, that you're dealing with that's a

840
01:03:24,740 --> 01:03:34,980
ship more shallow grade and I don't know the last thing I guess I want to say is it's yes it is a small stretch of a

841
01:03:36,990 --> 01:03:52,490
higher steeper grade that maybe noticeable may not be noticeable but it's I think it's an issue of liability that you want to consider in the long and also liability to who.

842
01:03:58,330 --> 01:04:10,690
But you're regulations give you the specific authority to do this, you're not doing something that's safe, and that's the white ability if it's not safe, and we deemed it safe.

843
01:04:11,010 --> 01:04:12,130
That's our white ability.

844
01:04:12,130 --> 01:04:15,110
Yeah, but we don't do that.

845
01:04:15,490 --> 01:04:15,890
Miniscule.

846
01:04:16,350 --> 01:04:16,470
Yeah.

847
01:04:16,610 --> 01:04:19,210
Well, the way you do it, because you're going to realize that.

848
01:04:19,210 --> 01:04:20,250
I defer to your council.

849
01:04:20,590 --> 01:04:20,870
I didn't.

850
01:04:20,990 --> 01:04:27,190
We don't ensure the safety of the traveling public on a road that's approved, but I have

851
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:28,830
a maybe a more basic question.

852
01:04:28,910 --> 01:04:32,930
Somebody mentioned at the beginning, but are we all on agreement about the that the width

853
01:04:32,930 --> 01:04:37,930
of the proposed road is going to be acceptable to the building department?

854
01:04:38,130 --> 01:04:38,330
We are.

855
01:04:38,330 --> 01:04:43,070
Yes, because our regs say 18 feet, they've already brought it up to 20, and that's the

856
01:04:43,070 --> 01:04:43,130
minute.

857
01:04:43,150 --> 01:04:43,370
I'm sorry.

858
01:04:43,590 --> 01:04:44,710
I wanted to make sure that.

859
01:04:44,790 --> 01:04:45,390
No, that's okay.

860
01:04:45,570 --> 01:04:46,630
And you've got to catch up.

861
01:04:46,730 --> 01:04:48,150
We're happy to help you catch up.

862
01:04:48,470 --> 01:04:51,910
And we have to be the Marine Guard because we've seen so many different versions.

863
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:52,930
Yes.

864
01:04:53,210 --> 01:04:54,270
20 is okay.

865
01:04:54,490 --> 01:04:54,930
Okay, good.

866
01:04:55,290 --> 01:04:55,730
So, anyway.

867
01:04:55,810 --> 01:04:59,290
But there might be other issues with situations like this that.

868
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:28,700
We have to study a little more, maybe talk to the Billion Inspector. And we can modify that to make more of a turnaround. You know, it's the same thing with some of the other long driveways. You know, these, if you're talking about a FedEx truck or UPS truck, they back out all the time. There's not a lot of traffic here, so it's not a traffic issue for them to take two minutes to back out into the road. But we can certainly look at making a turnaround.

869
01:05:28,700 --> 01:05:32,520
around more of a hammerhead type thing up there.

870
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,700
And again on the other, you know, we can give you the sketches and the analysis, Alan tried

871
01:05:39,700 --> 01:05:41,460
to give you some analysis in words.

872
01:05:42,220 --> 01:05:43,840
We can give it to you in sketches.

873
01:05:44,500 --> 01:05:49,920
We were trying to balance the other concerns we've heard from this board have been impacts

874
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,300
on rock removal and cut and fell.

875
01:05:52,700 --> 01:05:57,780
So what we tried to do was minimize both of those and in minimizing both of those, we ended

876
01:05:57,780 --> 01:06:04,140
up with this 20 feet of steeper road so we can give you more information and I

877
01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:07,700
yes we'll continue this discussion because I don't know that there's a

878
01:06:07,700 --> 01:06:12,440
consensus on the board to go one way or the other yet. This area right here is

879
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:17,520
heavy rock right yes you can't you can't start the swing a little bit more.

880
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:23,820
We also the town has required radii, so that's where we're trying to get there.

881
01:06:25,380 --> 01:06:25,740
Yep.

882
01:06:26,220 --> 01:06:29,460
Well, the more you straighten out the road, the harder it is to get the grade you want anyway.

883
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:30,400
Oh, no.

884
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,620
If you lengthen the road.

885
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:33,240
As I meant.

886
01:06:33,700 --> 01:06:34,060
You can.

887
01:06:34,380 --> 01:06:35,920
You'll have more.

888
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:37,560
Yeah, more length to get down the slope.

889
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:38,400
So it might help you.

890
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:39,520
That's not all easy.

891
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:41,760
It would, but all things considered.

892
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,740
But the grade does drop off in that direction.

893
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,340
It drops off towards the sun.

894
01:06:47,340 --> 01:06:47,620
I know.

895
01:06:48,380 --> 01:06:50,500
And so it is a balancing act, true.

896
01:06:51,020 --> 01:06:51,700
Yeah, I don't know.

897
01:06:51,780 --> 01:06:57,120
I mean, again, I'm repeating myself maybe, but I do think that balancing all considerations

898
01:06:57,940 --> 01:07:05,700
and given what we've been through, this is maybe with some little adjustments here and there

899
01:07:05,700 --> 01:07:08,720
with the individual access roads as we discuss.

900
01:07:08,740 --> 01:07:14,060
I think this is the best possible situation, you know, it's not perfect.

901
01:07:15,620 --> 01:07:20,020
I mean, it's 10% grade before a curve, I think it's too much, I mean, I know it's allowed,

902
01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:22,980
but still 12% is 20% more than that.

903
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:28,800
So, you know, it is what it is, but I don't know that we can do better under the circumstances.

904
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:36,800
I don't want to see tons of rock blasting to try to reduce the grade or fill that compromises

905
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,600
the woods between the road and the neighbors.

906
01:07:40,020 --> 01:07:40,560
So I don't know.

907
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:45,760
Does it snaking the road a little more up here by giving it more length?

908
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,000
Does that help or are you running into curve issues?

909
01:07:50,200 --> 01:08:01,920
Curve and septic issues, we have a septic system that's in here, we're trying to maintain some separation distance between the unwanted and the, also, the, um, with the rock and the little spot.

910
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,920
I'll just say we also looked at a lot of hurtful furniture.

911
01:08:10,700 --> 01:08:13,480
That's the road, but bring it out further this way.

912
01:08:15,540 --> 01:08:21,180
And none of them ever seem to, you know, if you bring the road up closer this way,

913
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:26,760
there's less radius if you want to tighten the turret.

914
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:33,380
It's too, is that it just shortens the length of the road, which makes great use of this.

915
01:08:33,380 --> 01:08:40,040
If you raise the height of the cul-de-sac to lessen the curve, it doesn't hurt this

916
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,140
driveway or this driveway.

917
01:08:42,700 --> 01:08:44,220
It's this one that's-

918
01:08:44,220 --> 01:08:46,040
No, it's both six and seven.

919
01:08:46,820 --> 01:08:48,380
They're the ones that are most impacted.

920
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:49,040
This one too.

921
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:49,580
Correct.

922
01:08:50,460 --> 01:08:50,720
Yes.

923
01:08:52,900 --> 01:08:55,260
Remember, it's only a three percent grade across the cul-de-sac.

924
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,740
So it's, this, this is, there's, really is-

925
01:08:59,740 --> 01:09:03,920
Well, what if this cut served both?

926
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,400
There's a great issue here, that's why.

927
01:09:07,780 --> 01:09:09,460
Here, is the greatest issue in the house.

928
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,360
That's where the house is, is much lower.

929
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:11,800
Correct.

930
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,240
So if, let's continue with that thought,

931
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,820
if the cul-de-sac went up two feet,

932
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,460
the advantage is that you might be able to reduce this grade.

933
01:09:27,220 --> 01:09:31,260
How much of a disadvantage is it for this driveway?

934
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:40,700
Did you look at that did the driveway is about 250 feet in length and generally the drop from

935
01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:42,680
the you know from the

936
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:46,760
Presonally is about 20

937
01:09:47,700 --> 01:09:54,280
There'll be about 23 from be about 21 feet of gray drop in about 250 feet of length

938
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:59,120
That's what it is to where that house is located. What's it called the sack where it is?

939
01:10:05,060 --> 01:10:19,420
And if the driveway were over here, what are we looking at? Great. I wish we had. Do we have the contour one? Yeah, it's I'm looking at it now. It came with the, all the other. Let me, let me see if I can get a contour one up.

940
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:26,730
What? Let me

941
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:45,240
just try to get this right, the cul de sac.

942
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:45,980
So

943
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:58,640
let's say generally this is around 4.52 here and about 4.50 there, and so just in place

944
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:05,120
seeing how it's here, the finish for elevation is around 6.4

945
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,000
.31. So we're really going from

946
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:19,340
4.52 to 4.31 and about 250 foot. And so from here it's a shorter length that's the profit.

947
01:11:19,340 --> 01:11:29,620
So the reason the driveway is this long is that you can imagine that if you lift it up

948
01:11:29,620 --> 01:11:35,080
another couple feet or four feet, they're just more grade change to, you know, two.

949
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:41,340
Right now, the way is designed is that the upper portion is fairly level,

950
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:49,320
you know, it's

951
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,820
it just as it does here and in the sort of pad around the

952
01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:56,180
garage, it's flat and down to 50%.

953
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:02,260
But in the driveways, the steepest portion of the driveway section

954
01:12:02,260 --> 01:12:05,400
there, it's probably like 10% or 11% or so on the driveway.

955
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:07,320
I just go take a look and see what it is.

956
01:12:07,700 --> 01:12:10,680
But I'm just saying that what happens is if you raise the driveway

957
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:14,160
up four feet, there's four feet of extra gray to make up.

958
01:12:14,260 --> 01:12:16,300
And that's why, again, it's a balancing act

959
01:12:17,420 --> 01:12:22,880
I'm trying to, you know, work with the grades that we have.

960
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:30,820
You're pushing in lock seven house up is only going to push the house down the hill, right?

961
01:12:31,500 --> 01:12:36,080
If you move the house either this way or that way, you know.

962
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:40,360
Well, now you're just that, but just up, but you run out of room for the driveway, right?

963
01:12:40,660 --> 01:12:44,680
So, we're trying to get more length, but all that to do is say put the driveway in as that

964
01:12:54,460 --> 01:13:01,180
I have to go look at it, but as I say, they're not at the maximum at all, they're probably

965
01:13:01,180 --> 01:13:01,680
looking around.

966
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,700
I think they're probably done at 10% or so at max.

967
01:13:08,170 --> 01:13:15,130
Then, as you can see, as it reaches the house, it flattens out, which is advantageous for

968
01:13:15,130 --> 01:13:19,050
It's about, it wasn't more like six or eight, because then you could raise this up, and

969
01:13:19,050 --> 01:13:19,630
up a little.

970
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:32,020
I mean the bottom line is you're going from a maximum of about 500 feet down to 430 or

971
01:13:32,020 --> 01:13:35,800
the 4 houses. I mean it's a 70 foot drop you know in total.

972
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:42,660
That's going downhill over some

973
01:13:43,820 --> 01:13:54,780
And I was saying before, it was that the speed was portion, you have 11.8%, actually there's

974
01:13:54,780 --> 01:14:00,900
right around here and through the 10% and you push it back into the rock area, which you

975
01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:03,520
can see is here, there's some rock here.

976
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:09,900
So we're trying to be as close as possible to really easily by doing a lot of cut.

977
01:14:09,900 --> 01:14:10,820
You can hear me, sir.

978
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:12,320
You can touch me.

979
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:15,420
Yes.

980
01:14:16,780 --> 01:14:20,800
I'm sure that most of us now, we have even more lock cut people.

981
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:27,020
We can say we also have, it's just extending the grading and the disturbance

982
01:14:27,020 --> 01:14:30,020
towards the rear yards of the houses on the bridge.

983
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,220
Anyone else who do that, if you cut the rock, we're seeing it.

984
01:14:34,980 --> 01:14:35,980
You'd have to cut the rock.

985
01:14:36,700 --> 01:14:39,180
Right, in closer proximity to an existing house.

986
01:14:42,330 --> 01:14:47,070
I have to say I live on a street that has a big curve and the big curve is on the steepest

987
01:14:47,070 --> 01:14:47,790
part of the street.

988
01:14:48,030 --> 01:14:50,030
I think it's probably a lot steeper than that.

989
01:14:50,670 --> 01:14:53,210
I think when you look at older roads it's not that.

990
01:14:53,610 --> 01:14:55,090
No one goes flying off into the woods.

991
01:14:55,630 --> 01:14:55,710
No.

992
01:14:58,190 --> 01:14:59,970
Now, everybody knows to be...

993
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,120
Careful in bad weather.

994
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:10,480
And it serves more than seven houses. Or really, it's only three, you know,

995
01:15:10,620 --> 01:15:15,040
past this point. It's really only three houses driving on that section of it.

996
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:28,780
So we can give

997
01:15:28,780 --> 01:15:33,020
you more information if you'd like. I don't know, you know, all we can do is really diagram

998
01:15:33,020 --> 01:15:34,420
it. I think we've explained it.

999
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,120
What I could see you've optimized the amount of disturbance

1000
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,020
versus the toughs that go on.

1001
01:15:44,180 --> 01:15:44,940
It's a bad one, right?

1002
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:48,780
Try to minimize the amount of disturbance

1003
01:15:48,780 --> 01:15:51,900
and try to balance the earthwork as best we can.

1004
01:15:52,820 --> 01:15:54,540
You've got the flow that I had.

1005
01:15:54,700 --> 01:15:56,700
You were talking about those three houses together

1006
01:15:56,700 --> 01:15:57,780
in a common driveway.

1007
01:15:59,020 --> 01:16:00,940
If there is concern about turnaround

1008
01:16:00,940 --> 01:16:05,120
with those two driveways meet, if you're just

1009
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,020
cooking, maybe try and go out of that thing there.

1010
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:10,140
Yeah, we'll modify that.

1011
01:16:10,140 --> 01:16:10,580
That's fine.

1012
01:16:11,100 --> 01:16:11,640
If we...

1013
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:16,320
No, I don't know that fly trucks would really care.

1014
01:16:16,460 --> 01:16:18,600
I think I want someone who want to turn around and come out.

1015
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:20,660
Or they're going to back out, to be honest.

1016
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,160
Even if you put a turn around there, they may back out.

1017
01:16:25,100 --> 01:16:26,360
They usually drive where they want to drive.

1018
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:28,840
They usually drive where they need to drive.

1019
01:16:29,540 --> 01:16:30,360
Yeah, I would tell you that.

1020
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:33,760
But we'll put it there.

1021
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:34,740
We'll make a turn around.

1022
01:16:35,820 --> 01:16:37,380
Well, with us two driveways meet.

1023
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:37,820
Yes.

1024
01:16:37,820 --> 01:16:37,920
Yes.

1025
01:16:38,180 --> 01:16:40,900
Just a great note to tell you that you are making a, yeah.

1026
01:16:41,220 --> 01:16:41,600
We're trying.

1027
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:42,120
Sure.

1028
01:16:45,220 --> 01:16:49,080
I still would like to know if this couldn't go up just a little bit.

1029
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:54,060
If this, do you lose this lot or will it could still work?

1030
01:16:56,160 --> 01:17:00,440
Because it looks like you might be okay with this one.

1031
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:01,720
You'll be okay with that one.

1032
01:17:02,540 --> 01:17:07,700
And what difference would a foot make or two feet make?

1033
01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:14,880
We can look at, you know, if we can bring that down to 11% how much does that raise the cul-de-sac?

1034
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:23,480
Does the cul-de-sac, by our code, doesn't Frank do you know if the cul-de-sac have to be a certain grade?

1035
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,100
You can only have a 5% grade change. And what are they showing here?

1036
01:17:28,540 --> 01:17:31,620
I thought it was three. I thought I could only have three.

1037
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:35,760
Can the planning, does the planning go to the authority to waive that a little bit?

1038
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:40,000
I have three. It's an action of 3% across the country.

1039
01:17:41,380 --> 01:17:43,280
Because we were just over and we brought it down.

1040
01:17:44,340 --> 01:17:46,960
If it could be slightly more, yes it would probably.

1041
01:17:48,380 --> 01:17:50,940
I wonder if the planning board has any flexibility with that.

1042
01:17:51,180 --> 01:17:52,260
I'll have to check the code.

1043
01:17:54,580 --> 01:17:55,920
Would that help the situation?

1044
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,200
Is it a three, a good number to stick with?

1045
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,300
Or if we went to four or five, is that feasible?

1046
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:12,020
You don't have the answer right now, but this is looking at some of our municipalities.

1047
01:18:12,780 --> 01:18:17,840
I mean, you've got to remember your driveway connections are there at the end where you're

1048
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,540
going to have where you're going to be dropping, where you're dropping it more.

1049
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:21,060
Right.

1050
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:22,860
So that's not the best situation.

1051
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:29,280
No, but if this were lower, it would help with this because you're going down.

1052
01:18:31,460 --> 01:18:32,860
And this were higher.

1053
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:34,960
We won't help with this.

1054
01:18:35,060 --> 01:18:37,860
I think three is pretty typical in other municipalities.

1055
01:18:39,060 --> 01:18:39,340
Okay.

1056
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,420
I'm not very specific. Three was the requirement.

1057
01:18:42,660 --> 01:18:42,920
Okay.

1058
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,620
Do you have, as far as the rest of the comments go, do you have any questions?

1059
01:18:48,180 --> 01:18:50,180
Sorry, do you need any clarification on any of them?

1060
01:18:50,700 --> 01:18:51,580
Will you address them?

1061
01:18:56,290 --> 01:18:57,350
No, I think the other ones are.

1062
01:18:57,410 --> 01:18:59,250
Pretty clear on the rest of them.

1063
01:18:59,490 --> 01:19:01,650
You know, we have some information we have to get here.

1064
01:19:02,570 --> 01:19:05,690
I have two things based on what we're looking at these drawings.

1065
01:19:05,690 --> 01:19:10,450
Is this one? This is the right way, right?

1066
01:19:11,650 --> 01:19:12,170
Yes.

1067
01:19:19,890 --> 01:19:20,410
Do

1068
01:19:27,260 --> 01:19:28,340
you want me to do more?

1069
01:19:36,050 --> 01:19:38,950
I don't think I raised that in this room.

1070
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:46,090
Having these areas here that are being labeled in the plan is

1071
01:19:51,570 --> 01:19:59,770
So, you know, in the past, we've had other plans with detection of trees.

1072
01:20:00,270 --> 01:20:07,430
There are various reasons. I've seen to come back and haunt us for various reasons. So I'm trying

1073
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:12,690
to understand, I don't remember how those one are legally going to be protected over time,

1074
01:20:12,690 --> 01:20:18,870
if they're actually forming a drainage function. As treaties. We could add, you know, into

1075
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:23,570
the declaration of restriction that those areas aren't to, you know, to be disturbed or treason,

1076
01:20:23,670 --> 01:20:28,730
those areas can't be removed. We could do that. I mean, it would relate to what the function.

1077
01:20:28,730 --> 01:20:31,390
They have a particular function.

1078
01:20:31,870 --> 01:20:37,610
The purpose is generally in those locations, those are lawn areas about the septic system

1079
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:42,810
and the idea is whether the wood area, wooded area for some type of treatment, if you will,

1080
01:20:42,970 --> 01:20:46,010
for the runoff from the lawn area of the septic system.

1081
01:20:46,270 --> 01:20:53,730
So if the trees give it value and give it purpose, then we would need something that says if

1082
01:20:53,730 --> 01:20:58,030
If a storm comes along and knocks the trees down, they're going to have to be replaced.

1083
01:20:59,170 --> 01:21:04,490
Because what's happening in these other situations that Will was hinting at is the storm comes,

1084
01:21:04,630 --> 01:21:08,490
knocks the trees down, or the people go to the building inspector and say, the trees are

1085
01:21:08,490 --> 01:21:11,870
too close to my house or the kid's swing set, you know, they've got to come down.

1086
01:21:11,970 --> 01:21:15,210
The next thing, you know, the trees are coming down and there's nothing about putting them

1087
01:21:15,210 --> 01:21:15,510
back.

1088
01:21:15,990 --> 01:21:22,490
So if they're serving a purpose, then I think we also need to say something has to go

1089
01:21:22,490 --> 01:21:22,750
back.

1090
01:21:22,750 --> 01:21:28,130
I don't know if it has to be a full-blown tree or does it have to be vegetation other than lawn?

1091
01:21:28,450 --> 01:21:29,150
Is that what you're saying?

1092
01:21:29,310 --> 01:21:31,150
Look at the whole picture because it's not just trees.

1093
01:21:31,450 --> 01:21:35,270
It's supposed, the way they're proposing it, it's supposed to remain intact.

1094
01:21:36,030 --> 01:21:38,650
So the undisturbed vegetation is providing a function, too.

1095
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:42,710
So technically, if the trees should be protected, it should also say.

1096
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:44,550
May the area be made, remain undisturbed?

1097
01:21:44,850 --> 01:21:46,610
Yeah, the shatter more wetter than anything else.

1098
01:21:46,770 --> 01:21:47,870
I don't have a problem with that.

1099
01:21:48,010 --> 01:21:52,730
I'm just saying if the tree itself provides a value, if they come down,

1100
01:21:52,730 --> 01:21:58,390
down do they have to be put back, trees have to be put back, or can you, if it turns into

1101
01:21:58,390 --> 01:22:03,130
just low lying shrub that no one's touching. There's value in that.

1102
01:22:03,170 --> 01:22:06,650
There is value in that. Correct. First is being long, that's, you know,

1103
01:22:06,750 --> 01:22:10,450
the value in fertilized. Correct. So it's not that it needs to be a

1104
01:22:10,450 --> 01:22:14,670
tree to area, it needs to be an undisturbed area. Correct. That's the idea. And that's the

1105
01:22:14,670 --> 01:22:20,210
value. And I think there are areas that you get back there and plant any kind of significant

1106
01:22:20,210 --> 01:22:21,850
entry is not going to be easy.

1107
01:22:23,690 --> 01:22:26,930
But we can certainly provide that those areas will remain

1108
01:22:27,610 --> 01:22:28,050
undisturbed.

1109
01:22:28,810 --> 01:22:32,250
Just to find out that we're in the drawing.

1110
01:22:32,710 --> 01:22:34,870
Well, we'll put it on the drawing and we'll also add it

1111
01:22:34,870 --> 01:22:35,170
into the drawing.

1112
01:22:35,170 --> 01:22:38,130
Probably should address the fact that if a tree does fall down

1113
01:22:38,130 --> 01:22:41,010
and is, unsightly, the owners are going to want to remove it.

1114
01:22:41,210 --> 01:22:44,670
So under certain circumstances, if there's a dead tree there,

1115
01:22:44,670 --> 01:22:45,690
it would be a lot to do.

1116
01:22:46,170 --> 01:22:46,310
Right.

1117
01:22:49,690 --> 01:22:52,610
We're not going to see those areas stay undisturbed.

1118
01:22:53,190 --> 01:22:56,030
That's Will's point and I think it's a very valid point.

1119
01:22:58,650 --> 01:23:00,270
They're far away from the houses.

1120
01:23:00,430 --> 01:23:02,250
It's not like it's an area right next to the house

1121
01:23:02,250 --> 01:23:03,950
that someone's going to want to clear for long.

1122
01:23:04,170 --> 01:23:08,410
Their neighbors are all woods, so they may want to clear their own property.

1123
01:23:11,650 --> 01:23:13,350
Because the septic curve will certainly be cleared.

1124
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:20,750
I guess where I'm going with it is there another way of achieving what you're trying

1125
01:23:20,750 --> 01:23:27,530
to achieve from a storm order standpoint other than just saying you can't do any, you

1126
01:23:27,530 --> 01:23:28,670
can't disturb this area.

1127
01:23:31,230 --> 01:23:34,550
Would it require some other storm order treatment be installed?

1128
01:23:35,470 --> 01:23:35,990
No.

1129
01:23:36,050 --> 01:23:39,470
Usually downgrading a septic system is not the place to do that.

1130
01:23:39,870 --> 01:23:44,270
And typically my own experience with New York City DEP is they looked at those areas remain

1131
01:23:44,270 --> 01:23:46,730
I mean, I'll call it natural, right?

1132
01:23:46,730 --> 01:23:48,370
Because it's what DEP is going to want.

1133
01:23:48,810 --> 01:23:50,110
Okay, so let's.

1134
01:23:50,350 --> 01:23:53,210
No, I mean, really not treating an impervious surface,

1135
01:23:53,210 --> 01:23:55,610
really just treating, it's for a lawn area

1136
01:23:55,610 --> 01:23:56,630
above a separate system.

1137
01:23:56,770 --> 01:23:58,110
That's really the purpose of it.

1138
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:04,320
Now, in this way, it's not a fertilized area,

1139
01:24:04,340 --> 01:24:09,760
which is typically the concern of DMP, for example,

1140
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,180
and stormwater runoff is that it's not carrying

1141
01:24:12,180 --> 01:24:14,260
phosphorus and nitrogen into the water bottles.

1142
01:24:14,260 --> 01:24:17,520
by having woods there and especially with leaf litter.

1143
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:20,120
Maybe not with the woods, but shrubs with leaf litter.

1144
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:21,980
It has an opportunity to infiltrate into the ground

1145
01:24:21,980 --> 01:24:24,140
because there's something that intercepts the flow.

1146
01:24:25,220 --> 01:24:27,280
Enough stuff there to slow the water down.

1147
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:32,500
Yeah, so that's good if you added to the plan.

1148
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:34,300
And you added the decoration.

1149
01:24:35,060 --> 01:24:37,140
You know, the key then will be for the villains

1150
01:24:37,140 --> 01:24:38,260
who are going to have to get built

1151
01:24:38,260 --> 01:24:40,400
to stuff they can install or those.

1152
01:24:44,150 --> 01:24:44,930
We will add.

1153
01:24:45,230 --> 01:24:47,130
So on the plot, those areas will be identified

1154
01:24:50,630 --> 01:24:53,170
What's the what's the proximate distance here?

1155
01:25:00,180 --> 01:25:02,320
That's the one that's closest to a house.

1156
01:25:18,190 --> 01:25:38,510
So all these, the trees that are here, if this is where the house is going to be. I can see the letter go into the building inspector. I'm worried about these trees falling on my house. Because that's exactly what happened in the other situation. They're less than 100.

1157
01:25:38,510 --> 01:25:47,050
If this is 100 feet, they're going to claim I want the trees down because they could fall on my house.

1158
01:25:51,020 --> 01:25:52,320
So I'm wondering if,

1159
01:25:56,830 --> 01:26:00,450
okay, so it's not really about the trees, it's about just don't disturb the area.

1160
01:26:00,550 --> 01:26:03,570
You can get the area down and still leave the area, basically, to start.

1161
01:26:05,070 --> 01:26:05,310
Okay.

1162
01:26:05,790 --> 01:26:10,590
I think the understory vegetation problem provides most of the trees.

1163
01:26:10,630 --> 01:26:11,770
Yeah, the more of the benefits.

1164
01:26:11,770 --> 01:26:17,050
So the condition has to be not just that the area remain undisturbed.

1165
01:26:17,230 --> 01:26:24,210
I think it has to be more clarified, shall not be turned into a lawn or, you know, a whatever.

1166
01:26:24,490 --> 01:26:32,230
So I think maybe if you expand upon it, people will get the picture and understand its purpose and intent.

1167
01:26:33,090 --> 01:26:37,890
Because in the other situation, we just said it shouldn't be disturbed and everyone was saying, well, what has disturbed me?

1168
01:26:37,890 --> 01:26:38,370
I don't know.

1169
01:26:38,770 --> 01:26:40,010
We'll go the whole more.

1170
01:26:40,110 --> 01:26:41,130
Thank you.

1171
01:26:42,350 --> 01:26:42,930
You're right.

1172
01:26:43,150 --> 01:26:43,770
How much should be clear?

1173
01:26:44,170 --> 01:26:44,270
Yeah, no.

1174
01:26:44,510 --> 01:26:46,210
We just went through it.

1175
01:26:46,250 --> 01:26:47,050
That's the only reason.

1176
01:26:47,210 --> 01:26:48,550
We're learning our lesson here.

1177
01:26:48,950 --> 01:26:51,090
We have no problem writing this.

1178
01:26:51,090 --> 01:26:52,670
But aren't these working sufficient?

1179
01:26:53,350 --> 01:26:59,330
Proposed filter strip would an area to remain undisturbed to provide buffer from a fill one

1180
01:26:59,330 --> 01:26:59,510
area.

1181
01:27:00,290 --> 01:27:02,410
I'm going to use that language and I'll throw it on the line.

1182
01:27:02,410 --> 01:27:02,890
It's right here.

1183
01:27:03,530 --> 01:27:04,890
It's going to go into the declaration.

1184
01:27:04,890 --> 01:27:11,310
That means you can't take down the tree, so that's the quantity because there are claimants

1185
01:27:11,310 --> 01:27:15,750
on the state, the underfeated vows, which is what they've already done on property.

1186
01:27:16,310 --> 01:27:16,510
Yeah.

1187
01:27:18,590 --> 01:27:22,590
You can say except unsafe trees can be removed with permission of the town.

1188
01:27:24,150 --> 01:27:25,090
Well, that will be all the trees,

1189
01:27:27,490 --> 01:27:28,530
that's what we've experienced.

1190
01:27:29,030 --> 01:27:32,290
It should rein in the natural state and no lawns.

1191
01:27:32,370 --> 01:27:36,410
I mean, I want the two extremes mentioned because this is exactly what we went through with

1192
01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:37,230
the other applicant.

1193
01:27:39,010 --> 01:27:47,890
I don't recall it was part of what you submitted for our approval, the downpourable and state

1194
01:27:47,890 --> 01:27:49,330
DEC approval.

1195
01:27:49,770 --> 01:27:56,030
You could try to remove it and when it gets to the DEP, no, they're going to want the

1196
01:28:01,850 --> 01:28:06,170
is going to say maybe you could try to submit it to them if they don't require it.

1197
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,640
Okay, are we good with the other points?

1198
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:12,840
You're going to address them?

1199
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:14,580
No other clarification needed?

1200
01:28:15,980 --> 01:28:17,800
Any of the board members have any more comments?

1201
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:19,760
I don't.

1202
01:28:21,140 --> 01:28:21,640
I don't.

1203
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:22,660
Either at this point.

1204
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:25,740
Thank you very much.

1205
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:26,460
Thank you.

1206
01:28:30,500 --> 01:28:33,180
I don't know that we can get all of this addressed.

1207
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:38,320
No, we just keep the public hearing open through all of this discussion.

1208
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:38,880
Okay.

1209
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:39,540
Thank you.

1210
01:28:39,780 --> 01:28:40,800
Thank you.

1211
01:28:40,980 --> 01:28:42,960
All right.

1212
01:28:43,100 --> 01:28:45,420
We have the minutes of April 4th and April 18th.

1213
01:28:45,420 --> 01:28:48,360
Are the board members in a position to move on them?

1214
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:50,520
Yeah, board approval.

1215
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:52,080
I'll second that.

1216
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:53,060
on favor.

1217
01:28:56,560 --> 01:29:03,440
The financial report for April I'll make a motion to approve. Do I have a second?

1218
01:29:04,980 --> 01:29:12,380
On favor. With the loss of Charlotte we need a new deputy chair. It would be helpful to have

1219
01:29:12,380 --> 01:29:18,720
someone who is here during the week so I believe a couple of meetings ago I asked Gary if you are

1220
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:24,100
sort of available during the day, so Gary, would you accept the position?

1221
01:29:24,460 --> 01:29:28,670
Right, thanks position. Chris, you are out.

1222
01:29:29,210 --> 01:29:30,610
I'm not even around on the weekend.

1223
01:29:31,010 --> 01:29:31,490
Oh,

1224
01:29:34,510 --> 01:29:35,710
come on, Gary, it's fine.

1225
01:29:37,970 --> 01:29:42,890
All right, I'll make a motion to appoint Gary and Jacobi's deputy chair.

1226
01:29:45,530 --> 01:29:48,070
Actually, just by announcement, whatever.

1227
01:29:49,510 --> 01:29:58,210
at the end of the work session, I'd like to go into executive session with the town attorney to discuss a variety of legal issues, so I'll make the motion.

1228
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,880
We went to executive session with the town attorney. At the end of the work session, do I have a second?

1229
01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:05,900
So yes.

1230
01:30:06,300 --> 01:30:06,800
All in favor?

1231
01:30:07,100 --> 01:30:07,540
No, you can't.

1232
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:09,500
Okay, on the work session.

1233
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:22,700
At our next meeting on May 16th, the town board is going to join us the first half hour or so, so we can present to them the sign ordinance.

1234
01:30:24,140 --> 01:30:41,600
Now, I know Bill, you've had it for a few weeks, and Dan, you're very new to this, but I'd like to do a quick run through tonight and see whether or not the two of you may have any issues because I'd like it to go as smoothly as possible when we have the town board here to talk to us.

1235
01:30:42,900 --> 01:30:48,480
This all came about almost three years ago now when the town attorney mentioned to us

1236
01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:55,140
that because of recent court cases, we had to take a look at some sections of our sign

1237
01:30:55,140 --> 01:30:59,540
ordinance to make sure that they were something, what content neutral, right?

1238
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:07,760
So we did that and we made it, we decided to do a few other little quick changes to it

1239
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:29,760
And we would thought we were done with it when one of the applicants who did not want to do signs as part of her site plan approval told us that she was a new member of the Chamber of Commerce, and she thought that other businesses may have concerns, and could we wait until she pulled the members of the Chamber of Commerce, and maybe we talked about some other changes.

1240
01:31:30,460 --> 01:31:33,940
So we waited and waited a few months, and we did not hear from her.

1241
01:31:33,940 --> 01:31:38,320
her, but she did send a memo to the town board, which was a little confusing.

1242
01:31:38,740 --> 01:31:45,640
So we finally got her connected with her, and she did not do a survey of the businesses,

1243
01:31:45,980 --> 01:31:47,840
but she did submit a list of questions.

1244
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:55,620
And it was very good for us because of the questions we understood that people still weren't

1245
01:31:55,620 --> 01:32:02,320
following our sign ordinance, and Will said, you know what, if we kind of rearranged it

1246
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:08,100
and redrafted it. It might be more helpful. And she also had a few suggestions in there

1247
01:32:08,100 --> 01:32:13,540
that we thought were good, for instance, when a new business comes to town, they like

1248
01:32:13,540 --> 01:32:18,880
to have some signage that says we're new or open. So we listened to, we went through all

1249
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:24,100
of her questions, we picked up on a few that made some sense, and with that we redrafted

1250
01:32:24,100 --> 01:32:30,740
the sign ordinance. One of the things that we did hold on to and we held on to very strongly

1251
01:32:30,740 --> 01:32:40,140
was the size of signs and to support that position, I put together in this book, this book

1252
01:32:40,140 --> 01:32:44,760
sits in my office and you're welcome to come in and take a look at it. It is a summary

1253
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:51,420
of every sign that I could get my hands on. There's also a, like an Excel spreadsheet

1254
01:32:51,420 --> 01:32:58,260
in there of which ones needed a variance, which ones were pre-existing, et cetera. So that

1255
01:32:58,260 --> 01:33:00,220
That was a very handy tool that we had.

1256
01:33:01,220 --> 01:33:06,540
We also brought up on the screen every commercial district in town, and we actually physically

1257
01:33:06,540 --> 01:33:10,760
looked at the buildings, the frontage, the distance to the road.

1258
01:33:11,580 --> 01:33:19,480
To get a better handle on what the impact might be, if you change the size of a sign, it

1259
01:33:19,480 --> 01:33:24,600
might be okay in one area of town, but it might be horrible and like croat and falls or

1260
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:26,260
parties to have bigger signs.

1261
01:33:26,260 --> 01:33:26,400
science.

1262
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:33,140
So we went through that exercise and at the end of the day, we were the then five members

1263
01:33:33,140 --> 01:33:36,440
of the planning board were pretty unanimous that we wanted to keep the size of the sign

1264
01:33:36,440 --> 01:33:37,080
the way it was.

1265
01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:43,080
But we did one change that actually increased the size of the sign.

1266
01:33:43,480 --> 01:33:48,580
We decided in the way you look at it, this is the face of the sign and most signs have

1267
01:33:48,580 --> 01:33:53,760
trim around it, so you don't have to count trim up to six inches around.

1268
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:58,180
So basically changed the square footage of a sign from 8 square feet to 10 square feet.

1269
01:33:58,740 --> 01:34:00,920
We thought that was a good compromise for people.

1270
01:34:02,580 --> 01:34:08,480
So with that, if you could give a very quick overview of, I think everyone now has a packet

1271
01:34:08,480 --> 01:34:20,780
in front of them of the sign ordinance, done, put it in your packets, and if you just highlight

1272
01:34:20,780 --> 01:34:25,700
some of the changes, particularly with the content neutral stuff?

1273
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:27,480
Yeah.

1274
01:34:29,460 --> 01:34:39,660
In looking at assigned regulations and bringing them up to date with current practices, we've

1275
01:34:40,980 --> 01:34:46,500
added a bunch of definitions and the added definitions came in because of the other changes

1276
01:34:46,500 --> 01:34:49,600
that were made throughout the code.

1277
01:34:51,170 --> 01:35:00,000
The section with regards to permitted signs, exempts.

1278
01:35:01,220 --> 01:35:27,760
We've added clarity to improve what the code is actually saying and what it's allowing. With the whole thing about the, in a sense, uniformity and this issue of contact neutral, that's really a lot of the, that came into play under the exempt signs, where we had to kind of make things pretty much uniform, because you really, when you have one sign for one outfit,

1279
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:30,280
but you can't really do it differently for another,

1280
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:35,280
like a church versus a school versus some other charity type event.

1281
01:35:35,460 --> 01:35:39,820
They really are supposed to have the same ability as far as the size,

1282
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:41,920
durations, and whatnot.

1283
01:35:42,580 --> 01:35:44,180
So we spent a lot of time with that.

1284
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:48,820
And that's what the, in many ways, is those three boxes on pages five and six,

1285
01:35:50,060 --> 01:35:55,060
trying to bring those into conformity with that larger issue that was kind of

1286
01:35:55,060 --> 01:35:56,340
the beginning of all of this.

1287
01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:00,440
And it's also been condensed into those tables.

1288
01:36:00,980 --> 01:36:02,360
It's a little clearer, I think,

1289
01:36:02,580 --> 01:36:06,060
if you pick out which sign it is from that point of view.

1290
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:11,000
With prohibited signs, we added a few other clarifications

1291
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:13,460
as the type of signs obviously that are prohibited.

1292
01:36:15,900 --> 01:36:18,780
Similar with permitted signs, a little bit more clarity

1293
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:20,820
about the different things.

1294
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,200
We've added the thing about the directional signage

1295
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:29,440
at the bottom. And the way these signs kind of go, the main signs, the principal signs

1296
01:36:29,440 --> 01:36:34,480
are the freestanding sign and a wall sign, and then the directional signs are the little

1297
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:36,640
signs that get you in and around the property.

1298
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:44,750
We provided in the design standards which are

1299
01:36:44,750 --> 01:36:45,670
on page 9.

1300
01:36:47,770 --> 01:36:53,290
We move things around, so some things you may see coming out may show up somewhere

1301
01:36:53,290 --> 01:36:56,870
and a different section that made more sense, so that was part of a rearrangement of some

1302
01:36:56,870 --> 01:36:58,070
of the things in the design.

1303
01:36:59,070 --> 01:37:05,690
Again, being more clear or adding more information as to what the town would be expecting with

1304
01:37:05,690 --> 01:37:11,250
the design assigns, and how to measure the signs, that was another big piece here, that's

1305
01:37:11,890 --> 01:37:16,530
section F, the measurement of a wall sign, the measurement of free standing sign, and that

1306
01:37:16,530 --> 01:37:22,310
was one of the things that Cindy just said, the allowance for this outer border, which

1307
01:37:22,310 --> 01:37:25,870
which kind of made the sign a little better than the traditional heat square feet.

1308
01:37:27,770 --> 01:37:32,630
We talked about sign placement and this is some of the things got moved into here from

1309
01:37:32,630 --> 01:37:39,230
other sections and again we talked a little bit about other types of signs such as awning

1310
01:37:39,230 --> 01:37:46,030
signs and window signs, things that hadn't been dealt with but do occur out in the real world.

1311
01:37:47,070 --> 01:37:53,650
The Materials section, I think these are a lot of things that the board has done over

1312
01:37:53,650 --> 01:37:58,090
the years as people came in with sign permits, so we're trying to codify some of those things

1313
01:37:58,090 --> 01:38:04,690
to make it more upfront as to what's expected and one of the things here, we did a recommendation

1314
01:38:04,690 --> 01:38:09,570
of the character heights and the maximums and minimums of lettering basically on the science

1315
01:38:09,570 --> 01:38:16,010
because there actually is some science to the speed on a road of what you can see, what

1316
01:38:16,010 --> 01:38:19,910
and sometimes people put a lot of words on signs

1317
01:38:19,910 --> 01:38:22,310
and they make it very small and you can't read it.

1318
01:38:22,490 --> 01:38:24,910
So it doesn't give them one,

1319
01:38:25,010 --> 01:38:27,130
it's a distraction on the road for a motorist,

1320
01:38:27,310 --> 01:38:29,930
it doesn't also give you an idea of where you are

1321
01:38:29,930 --> 01:38:30,710
or what you're seeing,

1322
01:38:30,970 --> 01:38:32,590
so that doesn't help the business any.

1323
01:38:34,350 --> 01:38:37,210
And in some respects, some people put too much on the sign.

1324
01:38:37,450 --> 01:38:40,190
So we're trying to deal with the minimum letter size.

1325
01:38:40,730 --> 01:38:44,310
So it's visible, it tells what it needs it to say

1326
01:38:44,310 --> 01:38:46,210
and safe on the road.

1327
01:38:47,650 --> 01:38:55,330
We've added the sections with regard to illumination and street identification, obviously that

1328
01:38:55,330 --> 01:38:58,810
towers in with the 911 process or our system.

1329
01:38:59,730 --> 01:39:06,070
And then some minor changes to the enforcement sections, not conforming section, but then

1330
01:39:06,070 --> 01:39:13,030
we added more to help the buildings factor with regards to the ongoing maintenance and replacement

1331
01:39:18,470 --> 01:39:29,650
There's two things I want to point out if you go back to page 4 at the top item B. This has been very handy and I think very helpful.

1332
01:39:30,090 --> 01:39:43,010
We used to make everybody come in for every sign, but in I think in 2015 we changed it so that if you're a new business and there was a previously approved sign,

1333
01:39:43,010 --> 01:39:48,690
you can just take that one down and put yours up unless you change the size

1334
01:39:48,690 --> 01:39:54,690
height color yard setbacks and we even in this round we're even taking out

1335
01:39:54,690 --> 01:39:58,770
the word color so if you stick in with the same size height yard setbacks and

1336
01:39:58,770 --> 01:39:59,410
illumination.

1337
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:07,200
Just put up your new sign for your new business. I think this will be very helpful because we've been criticized for that in the past.

1338
01:40:10,020 --> 01:40:27,700
One other thing, Roland, you told us, I believe, that we're writing this for property, signs on people's individual property, that a sign put out in a street right away is not permitted at all.

1339
01:40:31,620 --> 01:40:35,880
I'm almost thinking we have to actually come right out and say it because people don't believe me.

1340
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:39,840
And I've had so many conversations with the building inspector about it and he says,

1341
01:40:40,020 --> 01:40:44,580
I'm not comfortable removing a sign that's in the right away.

1342
01:40:45,380 --> 01:40:46,420
And I said, why not?

1343
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:51,280
I talked to the town attorney, he's told us that they're not supposed to be there.

1344
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:57,040
So is it just he has the right to do it for town right away or not state or unless

1345
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:05,600
Yes, unless a town board chooses otherwise to permit signs in the right of way, they are

1346
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:11,980
not approved to be there, and its town property, unauthorized signs should be removed, and

1347
01:41:11,980 --> 01:41:17,000
they should be, as other towns do, they don't throw them away, they put them in a centralized

1348
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:22,620
area, they inform the, whoever's ever on the sign where they are and they can be picked

1349
01:41:22,620 --> 01:41:23,760
up and relocated.

1350
01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:24,280
Right.

1351
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:29,720
The same thing whether it's a state right away or a county state does not permit signs on their on their

1352
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:36,540
I was I'm wondering if we almost should somehow put that in here and make it clear to people. Yeah, I you know, it's funny

1353
01:41:36,540 --> 01:41:45,120
I was thinking the same thing as I was reading through this again, and I wasn't quite sure what this meant on premises on page five

1354
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:55,260
on premises, temporary signs specific to the property upon which they are placed, and

1355
01:41:55,260 --> 01:42:00,880
the first three bullets I understand, but the fourth bullet has to do with campaigns

1356
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:05,520
of events of civic, political, religious, philanthropic, and educational institutions.

1357
01:42:05,980 --> 01:42:08,120
They're not going to be specific for property,

1358
01:42:12,290 --> 01:42:13,610
so that's got to be changed.

1359
01:42:13,610 --> 01:42:14,250
But

1360
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:24,820
that's where I think you would make it clear that these exempt signs can be used

1361
01:42:24,820 --> 01:42:27,600
only on private property and not on public property.

1362
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:33,360
But it's a subject to discuss with the town board because they may want to tell you that

1363
01:42:35,140 --> 01:42:39,340
they want to set a different policy and they control the property of the town.

1364
01:42:40,060 --> 01:42:44,660
But they could do it for any right away, whether it's state, county or town.

1365
01:42:44,660 --> 01:42:54,400
For some communities designate, you know, a specific area, maybe like the triangle down that's a perfect area.

1366
01:42:54,640 --> 01:43:00,940
Summers has a similar spot near the elephant hotel that they designate for common signs.

1367
01:43:01,500 --> 01:43:04,820
But the town would have to get permission from the state, for instance.

1368
01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:08,620
At that location, yes. But if you had another location that was town.

1369
01:43:08,620 --> 01:43:08,900
It was a town.

1370
01:43:09,260 --> 01:43:11,100
And it would be a town for word decision.

1371
01:43:11,100 --> 01:43:17,680
Okay, so I think we need to point, I think we need to have this exact same conversation with the top board.

1372
01:43:18,480 --> 01:43:32,000
Well, on that point you were raising that I understand that that bullets of the different kinds of signs, obviously political, I mean that's, I get that doesn't really do specific property.

1373
01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:42,050
Is it the town's interest though to allow, you know, those event signs on everybody's property?

1374
01:43:43,090 --> 01:43:47,310
or are they just for the actual property that's holding the event?

1375
01:43:48,530 --> 01:43:53,670
Kagan- We, in this town, if the boy scouts are doing something, they go along and

1376
01:43:53,670 --> 01:43:56,770
they put up all these temporary signs, if the historical side is doing something.

1377
01:43:57,430 --> 01:43:58,890
And we ask people, we can't put them.

1378
01:43:59,130 --> 01:44:02,170
So we want to be able to do, so it's not specific to the problem.

1379
01:44:02,170 --> 01:44:07,010
Kagan- Right, so the question, like, if the high school is having a musical or something,

1380
01:44:07,370 --> 01:44:09,370
everyone puts it on their yard, but kids in the play.

1381
01:44:09,370 --> 01:44:23,230
So the quicker they should add is we would make another category and it would just stand alone right yeah right okay because the first three bullets make sense yeah it's got to be specific to the property.

1382
01:44:24,370 --> 01:44:27,950
Do we have to say with permission of the property or was that just assumed?

1383
01:44:28,830 --> 01:44:30,610
I think it's assumed.

1384
01:44:30,610 --> 01:44:32,950
As always, the property owner will remove it.

1385
01:44:33,350 --> 01:44:33,490
Okay.

1386
01:44:35,170 --> 01:44:41,770
And maybe under enforcement, we can, if the town board doesn't want to allow them in right

1387
01:44:41,770 --> 01:44:46,790
a ways, maybe under enforcement or somewhere, we should state that these, you know, signs

1388
01:44:50,540 --> 01:44:55,040
place not on private property will be removed by the building inspector.

1389
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:59,800
Do the other towns have similar language or do they or do they

1390
01:45:01,420 --> 01:45:21,230
The other times I'm familiar with, they just, the town board is a policy, just directs the building inspector that, you know, we actually could, we could fix item 254.J on page seven.

1391
01:45:26,450 --> 01:45:35,930
It says that we'll pay seven item J. It says signs which project over street, so we can, say, project on or off that, you know,

1392
01:45:35,930 --> 01:45:41,490
We can we could do something with that sentence to get whatever sentiment because the

1393
01:45:41,490 --> 01:45:45,210
The signs that are of the governmental nature. I think are

1394
01:45:45,870 --> 01:45:50,190
You just say signs that are in right-a-ways if that's what they want you put it right there

1395
01:45:50,190 --> 01:45:56,090
I mean, yeah, we don't have to create a new area right signs within right-a-ways or they project over right-a-ways

1396
01:45:56,090 --> 01:46:04,790
Rather than is our government science exempt somewhere yes and traffic controlling signs

1397
01:46:04,790 --> 01:46:07,270
Right, that's certainly an exam.

1398
01:46:08,030 --> 01:46:14,370
Yeah, so one and two would examine all the typical signs that the town puts in.

1399
01:46:16,430 --> 01:46:22,610
So J would then preclude the school from running its sign, of course, hot scrub or road between

1400
01:46:22,610 --> 01:46:23,230
the two poles.

1401
01:46:23,830 --> 01:46:28,810
So it could be signs within a street right away or which project over street?

1402
01:46:28,810 --> 01:46:30,890
are not subject to term zoning.

1403
01:46:31,830 --> 01:46:34,550
But it's on town property.

1404
01:46:34,730 --> 01:46:36,190
Oh, there's the county road.

1405
01:46:36,190 --> 01:46:36,990
That's the county road.

1406
01:46:37,130 --> 01:46:40,130
Yeah, but they're subject to laws off site.

1407
01:46:40,790 --> 01:46:41,590
OK, so.

1408
01:46:43,050 --> 01:46:44,810
Yeah, they can go put a sign on here.

1409
01:46:44,850 --> 01:46:46,950
What sign do they put up for a festival or something?

1410
01:46:47,590 --> 01:46:48,030
Homecoming.

1411
01:46:48,390 --> 01:46:51,510
They put a stretch of sign across the college gravel road.

1412
01:46:51,950 --> 01:46:52,990
And they've never gotten a permit.

1413
01:46:53,930 --> 01:46:54,050
No.

1414
01:46:57,090 --> 01:46:59,890
Well, it's a conversation with the town board.

1415
01:46:59,890 --> 01:47:02,430
They might want to make exceptions to that.

1416
01:47:04,910 --> 01:47:10,030
So could Jay say something like signs within street right away or which project over a street?

1417
01:47:15,480 --> 01:47:17,960
Actually, I guess you don't have to say the project park exists.

1418
01:47:19,460 --> 01:47:24,480
We're going to have an issue with that, because one of our applicants is already doing it.

1419
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:26,720
She's doing a lot of things now, so.

1420
01:47:32,460 --> 01:47:38,960
So, are the new board members more, more or less comfortable with this?

1421
01:47:40,300 --> 01:47:46,020
We are going to get a lot of resistance and discussion with the town board.

1422
01:47:46,020 --> 01:47:54,160
I've already been put through the ropes, yes, I did say that a few weeks ago, no, a week ago.

1423
01:47:54,160 --> 01:48:04,480
So I sat down with Warren Logus and Peter Gamonstein and the building inspector because the building inspector was sitting and going through it and I said, why are you doing the sign ordinance now?

1424
01:48:04,620 --> 01:48:08,460
He says, well, Warren and I are, come on and talk to me.

1425
01:48:09,340 --> 01:48:13,940
So this is why we're having the joint session.

1426
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:21,440
I think it's really important to have all the town board members understand how we approach this and

1427
01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:28,000
why we wrote it the way we did and I tried to stress this with Warren and Peter that when

1428
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:36,320
you write a code you write it for the entire town you know and if it doesn't work for some

1429
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:41,900
well they can go and get a variance and it's not that difficult or that expensive to get a variance.

1430
01:48:42,680 --> 01:48:47,360
So I'm hoping that having that sit down with them and taken them through everything that we just

1431
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:53,760
discussed here that they're a little more understanding of why we want to keep it conservative

1432
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:56,360
because you can always go and get something.

1433
01:48:56,540 --> 01:49:01,760
You think you use the word resist, do you think resistance are just need for lots of explanation

1434
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:05,800
because they're kind of looking at this fresh without having had the discussion.

1435
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:10,020
I mean part of it is it was hard, it's a document that's hard to follow and obviously we need

1436
01:49:10,020 --> 01:49:12,180
well there to walk them through it to understand it.

1437
01:49:12,180 --> 01:49:14,940
I mean, even we had difficulties with some of it,

1438
01:49:15,020 --> 01:49:17,340
and we needed to be walked through it.

1439
01:49:18,020 --> 01:49:21,480
There's also Warren has told me that he's received complaints,

1440
01:49:21,900 --> 01:49:23,460
and I said, can you be specific?

1441
01:49:23,700 --> 01:49:25,280
And he's never been specific.

1442
01:49:25,980 --> 01:49:28,020
So I don't know if it's, you know,

1443
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:30,980
one property complaining a lot,

1444
01:49:31,060 --> 01:49:32,480
or if there's a lot of complaints.

1445
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:36,520
Completing that they don't want to go to the planning board.

1446
01:49:36,520 --> 01:49:37,760
It's too expensive.

1447
01:49:38,340 --> 01:49:39,400
It's too this to that.

1448
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:41,500
And I'm saying, first of all,

1449
01:49:41,500 --> 01:49:45,300
Well a sign permit is generally taken care of is part of the site plan.

1450
01:49:46,220 --> 01:49:46,920
That's when you do it.

1451
01:49:47,020 --> 01:49:48,620
It is a part and parcel of site plan.

1452
01:49:48,900 --> 01:49:52,740
We encourage everybody to do their signage, as we're doing with BP, we do it then.

1453
01:49:53,240 --> 01:49:53,680
And they're done.

1454
01:49:54,180 --> 01:49:59,200
Here's it's only those who don't do it as part of their site plan that have to come in

1455
01:49:59,200 --> 01:49:59,840
for process.

1456
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:30,020
It's a fee set by the town, but what's 100 bucks? And it's generally one meeting of the planning board. What is so difficult about that? And if they don't like to follow the regulations, we send them to the board of appeals, and they get their variance, and they're done. And they mentioned, well, maybe we should send them to the architecture review board and have them do in the permitting. And I said, they're not a permitting board. You'd have to rewrite your code. I said, I don't understand who's complaining. I don't understand why.

1457
01:50:30,440 --> 01:50:33,380
You're not going to tell me who it is, how can we fix it?

1458
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:35,680
You do understand who's complaining.

1459
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:40,340
Well, I did mention that I know that there are two businesses that complain.

1460
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:42,680
And I all seem to be based on those two businesses.

1461
01:50:43,340 --> 01:50:48,900
I said, we don't rewrite an entire code because a business in the center of your town

1462
01:50:48,900 --> 01:50:50,460
wants to have a lot of signage up.

1463
01:50:51,560 --> 01:50:53,620
I said, go back and read the company as a plan.

1464
01:50:54,520 --> 01:50:57,800
Let's bring it up into weeks when there are lots of years.

1465
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:00,860
Okay, so that's what we are with that, thank you.

1466
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:03,920
Do we have, is there any overriding thing

1467
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:05,080
on agricultural land?

1468
01:51:06,500 --> 01:51:08,800
No, most of the agricultural signs,

1469
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:10,980
all of the, if I pull out the list,

1470
01:51:11,460 --> 01:51:14,460
they all use the name plate size, which is the force.

1471
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:18,240
You don't let me do agricultural properties.

1472
01:51:19,300 --> 01:51:19,700
Got a pass.

1473
01:51:19,980 --> 01:51:22,140
Some right to do anything they want to do.

1474
01:51:22,260 --> 01:51:24,660
Not the normal world, not with respect to signage.

1475
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:26,420
Okay, I'm just asking the question

1476
01:51:26,420 --> 01:51:30,760
because they have a lot of freedom to do a lot of things that others don't have.

1477
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:31,240
Yeah,

1478
01:51:33,680 --> 01:51:37,480
most of the signs up fall under the exam category.

1479
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:42,480
People like to put their name plate on the phone, which is what I call them.

1480
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:44,840
Pretty good shape.

1481
01:51:46,060 --> 01:51:47,500
Oh, one question they did have.

1482
01:51:47,880 --> 01:51:52,500
Can we have different regulations for different zoning districts?

1483
01:51:53,160 --> 01:51:55,780
And my response to that was, why would you want to do that?

1484
01:51:56,780 --> 01:51:58,440
And they picked out fields.

1485
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:00,520
I said, you might get into this content neutral.

1486
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:01,900
That's the problem with that.

1487
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:04,760
So if you will say, no, you write it

1488
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:06,760
for the whole town on code.

1489
01:52:07,740 --> 01:52:09,740
That will really help squash that one.

1490
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:09,940
Yeah.

1491
01:52:10,460 --> 01:52:12,080
I mean, it's the same idea when you're trying

1492
01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:16,580
have different size signs based on what they say.

1493
01:52:16,940 --> 01:52:17,840
You can't do that either.

1494
01:52:19,300 --> 01:52:19,900
Same principle.

1495
01:52:19,900 --> 01:52:24,960
I mean, they picked out fields lane, and I said, you know, they need variances.

1496
01:52:25,580 --> 01:52:29,360
At this point, they've all got the permit, they're just going to change the business.

1497
01:52:29,740 --> 01:52:31,060
It's like we're done with fields lane.

1498
01:52:31,200 --> 01:52:38,200
Signs have to be kind of neutral, but they haven't attacked yet legally, the commercial sign.

1499
01:52:38,440 --> 01:52:38,960
But they might.

1500
01:52:39,700 --> 01:52:46,120
So, I mean, having a different size, sign, and different commercial districts, that doesn't

1501
01:52:46,120 --> 01:52:46,920
change content.

1502
01:52:47,820 --> 01:52:50,820
No, but it is uniform because you're putting it in a district.

1503
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:52,180
Well, what's the purpose of it?

1504
01:52:52,180 --> 01:52:52,360
Yes.

1505
01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:53,020
Oh, no.

1506
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:54,160
Is the bull from 680?

1507
01:52:54,220 --> 01:52:54,760
No, no.

1508
01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:56,120
I'm not saying to get billboard.

1509
01:52:56,340 --> 01:52:59,440
But if you were to think of that,

1510
01:53:00,660 --> 01:53:04,680
that field plane district is being a more intense commercial district,

1511
01:53:05,820 --> 01:53:08,260
you know, maybe a 10-foot sign makes more sense than a,

1512
01:53:08,360 --> 01:53:08,840
I don't know.

1513
01:53:08,980 --> 01:53:09,620
But that, you know what I mean?

1514
01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:10,440
You don't really have.

1515
01:53:10,920 --> 01:53:12,940
North Ham doesn't have really any of that kind of distance.

1516
01:53:13,480 --> 01:53:15,900
Yeah, I would not encourage anybody to go there.

1517
01:53:16,780 --> 01:53:19,560
I mean, you don't have the post-road, so I mean, yeah.

1518
01:53:20,500 --> 01:53:25,500
And not all the businesses on Fields Lane would fit into the same cat, sorry, they're not

1519
01:53:25,500 --> 01:53:29,040
all set back 300 feet from the road, you know.

1520
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:33,160
And the signs are out on the road, so why would we want to treat that road any different?

1521
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:39,760
It is a small area that it doesn't, okay, then anyway, isn't it?

1522
01:53:40,820 --> 01:53:44,840
All right, I just want to do site plan wave is real quickly, I'm not going to do this subdivision

1523
01:53:44,840 --> 01:53:45,440
ranks tonight.

1524
01:53:46,820 --> 01:53:51,940
Roland, we, the reason I asked Will to give a crack at this

1525
01:53:51,940 --> 01:53:55,340
is because if you are in the first call,

1526
01:53:55,720 --> 01:53:58,120
I use, as of right.

1527
01:53:59,060 --> 01:54:01,300
And it's something small like this cooler.

1528
01:54:01,700 --> 01:54:03,980
You can come to us and we can grant this waiver

1529
01:54:03,980 --> 01:54:05,180
rather than putting through a process.

1530
01:54:05,820 --> 01:54:07,420
The way our code is written right now

1531
01:54:07,420 --> 01:54:10,620
is if you are a special permit use, condition use,

1532
01:54:11,020 --> 01:54:12,000
you can't get a waiver.

1533
01:54:12,500 --> 01:54:12,900
Period.

1534
01:54:12,900 --> 01:54:16,680
which means a public hearing and amended site plan application.

1535
01:54:17,180 --> 01:54:18,800
So I asked Will to take a look at it.

1536
01:54:18,860 --> 01:54:20,840
If there's nothing in town law that prevents us,

1537
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:23,140
I can't even have the wave of provision

1538
01:54:23,140 --> 01:54:27,460
for conditional use and special permit uses.

1539
01:54:27,980 --> 01:54:30,820
If it's a small thing like putting in a condenser,

1540
01:54:30,820 --> 01:54:32,740
a tank, or an air conditioner.

1541
01:54:33,380 --> 01:54:34,960
So Will drafted something that says,

1542
01:54:34,960 --> 01:54:36,720
so long as you're not changing the use,

1543
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:40,580
and we're just talking about a little fix.

1544
01:54:40,580 --> 01:54:43,100
Yeah, I think I don't see any reason why you can't do that.

1545
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:44,600
So that was the whole purpose of it.

1546
01:54:44,820 --> 01:54:47,080
Will drafted something, and I don't know if the board had

1547
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:48,500
a chance to take a look at it.

1548
01:54:49,100 --> 01:54:51,880
I thought he added some really good points.

1549
01:54:52,620 --> 01:54:55,020
If you want to pass on it for tonight, that's fine.

1550
01:54:55,080 --> 01:54:56,080
I like the look at it a little bit.

1551
01:54:56,180 --> 01:54:56,380
Sure.

1552
01:54:57,440 --> 01:54:59,960
So now that Rowan's confirmed that we can go down that road.

1553
01:55:00,050 --> 01:55:30,030
We'll have the next meeting. So I think with that, the only other thing that we have to do, especially with these other applications coming in, is we've got to do some of these side inspections. We're not a board that sets a Saturday or a city for side inspection, but we've been trying to do it for a water view. We're not getting everybody to gather at the same time. I know it's hard. But over the next week, Dawn is going to be emailing you all

1554
01:55:30,030 --> 01:55:37,850
again, if it's possible to do a side inspection before a planning board meeting, if that's

1555
01:55:37,850 --> 01:55:42,590
preferred, speak up, if it's preferred to do it on the weekends, speak up, and that's

1556
01:55:42,590 --> 01:55:47,290
the direction we'll go in, but how do people generally feel about these?

1557
01:55:47,390 --> 01:55:53,050
Generally, I prefer before planning board meeting in the summers, so you can start doing

1558
01:55:53,050 --> 01:55:53,270
that.

1559
01:55:53,270 --> 01:55:56,490
But, well, but sometimes I can't.

1560
01:55:56,610 --> 01:55:56,910
Yeah.

1561
01:55:57,370 --> 01:55:58,690
My schedule allows it.

1562
01:55:58,750 --> 01:55:59,770
I prefer that over weekends.

1563
01:56:00,130 --> 01:56:00,310
OK.

1564
01:56:01,030 --> 01:56:02,050
Dan, how about you?

1565
01:56:02,310 --> 01:56:03,990
I would probably prefer before the plane

1566
01:56:03,990 --> 01:56:04,830
were meeting as well.

1567
01:56:05,250 --> 01:56:05,490
For them?

1568
01:56:05,830 --> 01:56:07,610
Like, you know, 630 or whatever.

1569
01:56:07,910 --> 01:56:09,630
Yeah, it would be like the 630 range.

1570
01:56:10,570 --> 01:56:11,270
It's fine with me.

1571
01:56:11,350 --> 01:56:12,070
I mean, you'll Gary.

1572
01:56:12,830 --> 01:56:15,850
Yeah, for the, you know, through to school starts again.

1573
01:56:16,270 --> 01:56:16,470
OK.

1574
01:56:17,030 --> 01:56:19,450
So, Don, that's what we're going to shoot for with these upcoming.

1575
01:56:20,810 --> 01:56:22,390
And we might actually do one next.

1576
01:56:22,830 --> 01:56:29,690
We have two weeks on the rights on May 16th. May 16th is that possible? We're starting at 7 or 7 30 on the 16th.

1577
01:56:29,710 --> 01:56:34,790
7 30 with the town board. With the town board okay. So we could do a 6 30 site inspection of what are you.

1578
01:56:36,010 --> 01:56:45,270
Second meeting time. I think so. We'll have 45 minutes. Everybody's there. It's it only takes 15 minutes to drive back over here.

1579
01:56:45,270 --> 01:56:53,470
Who beside us who is are you going to invite mark how the day we've already had the walk through with all the emergency

1580
01:56:53,470 --> 01:56:55,570
Fire police etcetera

1581
01:56:56,850 --> 01:57:00,170
So we'll have the applicant there and we'll have will there

1582
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:02,840
630

1583
01:57:05,100 --> 01:57:08,260
Yeah, so we'll check with the applicant see if that's possible

1584
01:57:12,580 --> 01:57:15,180
Okay, and will it works for you? I'll say that

1585
01:57:15,980 --> 01:57:20,700
Waterview. Yeah, I'm good. We could ask Paul to join us because Paul

1586
01:57:21,480 --> 01:57:26,120
could bring in. He was at that meeting with all the emergency people. Help fill in any questions.

1587
01:57:26,540 --> 01:57:35,080
Maybe they're close with 6.45. And I just said that people better, actually, I'm meeting it three that day, but I should be able to get

1588
01:57:35,080 --> 01:57:37,480
questions for you. Excellent. So unless it's-

1589
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:39,800
The work session on June 20th, may I go on?

1590
01:57:40,500 --> 01:57:44,360
Yeah. If that's the third Wednesday, yes.

1591
01:57:46,360 --> 01:58:04,220
It's going back real quick. I have a quick question which you don't need to answer now necessarily but when we consider the site waiver, site plan waiver modifications the 3000 square foot disturbance is there magic to that number or something we should discuss.

1592
01:58:04,220 --> 01:58:09,700
I'm sorry the 3000 square foot disturbance for oh you know what I did I you know that's

1593
01:58:14,380 --> 01:58:19,060
What I did is I took based on the 1,000 square foot building edition

1594
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:28,400
I kind of took a building edition and I drew like a 20 foot radius around it and kind of carefully what that area would be that

1595
01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:33,560
You need to grade and disturb generally now that's not everything because there might be other things with parking you have to do

1596
01:58:33,560 --> 01:58:37,560
And I kind of came up with a 2,500 square foot number and dumped it up to 3.

1597
01:58:38,060 --> 01:58:42,860
I mean, you could make it 4, you could make it 5, I mean, it's really just a comfort level

1598
01:58:42,860 --> 01:58:46,460
of how much you want to, you know, open the door to.

1599
01:58:48,700 --> 01:58:53,440
Okay, with that, I think we're done with the regular meeting and I'd like to go into executive

1600
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:55,960
session so we can turn off the lights.

1601
01:58:55,960 --> 01:58:56,200
Thanks.