1
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:14,559
Hey there. Good evening. Hello. All right, Amy,

2
00:00:14,559 --> 00:00:20,455
you're making all the board members co hosts.

3
00:00:20,455 --> 00:00:38,250
Okay. Great. And your staff, obviously. So who

4
00:00:38,250 --> 00:00:41,130
are we waiting for? We're waiting for Janet.

5
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,640
Welcome everyone. I'm gonna wait one more minute

6
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:39,880
to see if Janet arrives. Ami, are you

7
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:55,295
letting in the public? I am. There she

8
00:01:55,295 --> 00:02:17,585
is. There she is. Yeah. Joanne, do you

9
00:02:17,585 --> 00:02:20,785
see Janet? Yes. She just came in. Okay.

10
00:02:20,785 --> 00:02:32,810
To unmute. There she is. Hi. Amy, Trish

11
00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:37,205
Allen is part of the garden group so

12
00:02:37,205 --> 00:02:40,805
I'm not sure why her video is on

13
00:02:40,805 --> 00:02:47,444
from your perspective. Not your bad Trish, just

14
00:02:47,444 --> 00:02:52,980
we're trying to. Them's the rules. Yeah. That's

15
00:02:52,980 --> 00:02:57,780
there you go. Trish Allen. Should not be

16
00:02:57,780 --> 00:03:01,459
a cohost. Not yet. Yeah. No. They're not

17
00:03:01,459 --> 00:03:07,805
now. So let me. Been promoted, Trish. Let

18
00:03:09,245 --> 00:03:25,170
me see how to do that. I'm hearing

19
00:03:25,170 --> 00:03:27,650
some background noise. Anybody know where that's from?

20
00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:39,175
No. And what about Sally? Yeah, Sally shouldn't

21
00:03:39,175 --> 00:03:42,295
be on the video either. Some I mean,

22
00:03:42,295 --> 00:03:46,295
it's nothing it's not bad, but Yeah. I

23
00:03:46,295 --> 00:03:51,970
don't know how that happened. What kind of

24
00:03:51,970 --> 00:03:55,170
background noise are you hearing? It's off now.

25
00:03:56,129 --> 00:03:58,050
I'm not sure who's that was. Okay, I

26
00:03:58,050 --> 00:04:03,215
think we're ready. Welcome everyone. This is a

27
00:04:03,215 --> 00:04:06,255
city of Northampton Board of Health meeting. It's

28
00:04:06,255 --> 00:04:15,739
01/19/2023. Time is 05:33. Tonight we have all

29
00:04:15,739 --> 00:04:19,899
members of our board present Doctor. Cynthia Swopis,

30
00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:24,060
Doctor. Suzanne Smith, Nurse Dallas Dukar, Janet Grant,

31
00:04:24,139 --> 00:04:27,340
and myself, Doctor. Joanne Levin. We also have

32
00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:32,845
some staff from the Department of Health, Director

33
00:04:33,005 --> 00:04:39,085
Amy Hutchins of the Department of Environmental Health

34
00:04:39,085 --> 00:04:43,485
and Human Services. And I'll ask you later

35
00:04:43,485 --> 00:04:46,445
to introduce the other staff members. Great. Yeah.

36
00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:51,110
Great. First, we'll start with the public comment

37
00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:54,630
session. We would we're always interested in hearing

38
00:04:54,630 --> 00:04:57,030
from the public. We ask that you limit

39
00:04:57,030 --> 00:05:00,470
your comments to two minutes. And Suzanne, are

40
00:05:00,470 --> 00:05:04,365
you up for being timer? Oh, you're muted.

41
00:05:04,365 --> 00:05:10,525
Yes. Great. And because of the way our

42
00:05:10,525 --> 00:05:13,005
Zoom is set up that the public doesn't

43
00:05:13,005 --> 00:05:18,430
generally have their videos enabled. We can't see

44
00:05:18,430 --> 00:05:20,750
you if you're waving. So for people who

45
00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:22,670
want to give public comment, please use your

46
00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:25,310
electronic hand, which is found in the reactions

47
00:05:25,310 --> 00:05:28,785
department down in your lower menu. So if

48
00:05:28,785 --> 00:05:30,705
you would like to give public comment, please

49
00:05:30,705 --> 00:05:39,105
raise an electronic hand. I don't see anyone

50
00:05:39,745 --> 00:05:43,100
give it one more minute anyone here for

51
00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:49,020
public comment okay I don't see anyone here

52
00:05:49,020 --> 00:05:51,900
for public comment session we'll close the public

53
00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:58,245
comment session Then would someone like to make

54
00:05:58,245 --> 00:06:03,205
a motion to open to convene the meeting

55
00:06:03,205 --> 00:06:06,085
of the Northampton Board of Health? Move to

56
00:06:06,085 --> 00:06:11,200
open. Is there a second? Second. Any comment

57
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,800
or discussion? All in favor, we'll do a

58
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,520
roll call for votes. Cynthia? Yes. Suzanne? Yes.

59
00:06:20,155 --> 00:06:26,155
Dallas? Yes. Janet? Yes. And me. Yes. Okay.

60
00:06:26,155 --> 00:06:29,035
Board of Health meeting is now open. Welcome,

61
00:06:29,035 --> 00:06:38,330
everyone. This meeting is being recorded. And I've

62
00:06:38,330 --> 00:06:40,570
already mentioned who's here. We are all here.

63
00:06:41,290 --> 00:06:43,530
I'm just gonna mention that, I may need

64
00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:45,370
to leave early if we are going to

65
00:06:45,370 --> 00:06:49,725
go for an extended time, but we'll see

66
00:06:49,725 --> 00:06:54,125
how that goes. The first thing on our

67
00:06:54,125 --> 00:06:57,165
agenda was a continuation of the hearing for

68
00:06:57,165 --> 00:07:01,245
Jim's Variety. Do we have a representative from

69
00:07:01,245 --> 00:07:05,210
Jim's Variety here? Amy, do you know if

70
00:07:05,210 --> 00:07:07,210
they were invited to come to the department?

71
00:07:07,530 --> 00:07:09,610
They were and we reached out to them

72
00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:11,050
to see if they'd like to join us

73
00:07:11,050 --> 00:07:13,930
at the department itself because they had some

74
00:07:13,930 --> 00:07:17,995
technical difficulties last time and they assured that

75
00:07:17,995 --> 00:07:19,275
they were going to be all set and

76
00:07:19,275 --> 00:07:22,715
that they would be here. Okay do you

77
00:07:22,715 --> 00:07:25,435
see any of these names representing? I don't

78
00:07:25,435 --> 00:07:30,410
and the only The one thing is that

79
00:07:30,410 --> 00:07:33,450
it appears on the agenda that the hearing

80
00:07:33,450 --> 00:07:36,810
is to start at 05:45. Oh, that's a

81
00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:39,530
very good point. So we need to give

82
00:07:39,530 --> 00:07:45,415
them that time. Okay, good. Let's move on

83
00:07:45,415 --> 00:07:47,015
and we'll come back to them. Let's move

84
00:07:47,015 --> 00:07:49,495
to public health nursing updates. Do you want

85
00:07:49,495 --> 00:07:55,335
to introduce your staff, Amy? Absolutely. Kelly Hughes

86
00:07:55,335 --> 00:07:57,335
is with us tonight. She's our new public

87
00:07:57,335 --> 00:08:00,340
health nurse. Kelly, if you'd like, why don't

88
00:08:00,340 --> 00:08:02,660
you tell us a little bit about yourself

89
00:08:02,660 --> 00:08:07,379
and what you do at DHHS? Hi there.

90
00:08:07,379 --> 00:08:10,500
Is everybody able to hear me? I'm going

91
00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:13,605
to mute myself because I'm hearing Oh, you're

92
00:08:13,605 --> 00:08:16,405
here twice. Of my voice. You're actually You're

93
00:08:17,605 --> 00:08:20,005
here twice. Are you able to hear me

94
00:08:20,005 --> 00:08:24,165
if I do that? Yes. Yes? Okay. Hi,

95
00:08:24,645 --> 00:08:26,965
sorry about that. So, my name is Kelly

96
00:08:26,965 --> 00:08:30,060
Hughes. I'm an LPN that's been working in

97
00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:33,419
ambulatory care, primary care in the Valley for

98
00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:36,540
about eight years or so, seven, eight years.

99
00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:39,980
I worked with the health department as part

100
00:08:39,980 --> 00:08:44,735
of the COVID-nineteen contact tracing nurse collaborative for

101
00:08:44,735 --> 00:08:47,134
a couple of years, and that's how I

102
00:08:47,134 --> 00:08:49,375
got connected with the health department. And I'm

103
00:08:49,375 --> 00:08:53,950
also an MRC volunteer from about 2016 till

104
00:08:53,950 --> 00:08:57,870
now. I'm excited to join the team and

105
00:08:58,029 --> 00:09:00,269
work with Amy and Elliot and Meredith and

106
00:09:00,269 --> 00:09:04,430
everybody else seems really lovely. I'm excited to

107
00:09:04,750 --> 00:09:08,274
start this new adventure. Great. Well, thank you

108
00:09:08,274 --> 00:09:12,995
and welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Elliot's also

109
00:09:12,995 --> 00:09:15,074
with us. I think Elliot's going to do

110
00:09:15,074 --> 00:09:18,195
an update on the respiratory illness. Yeah. So

111
00:09:18,195 --> 00:09:23,980
I'm going to share my screen. And I'm

112
00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:29,019
sharing straight from the Northampton City website where

113
00:09:29,019 --> 00:09:31,019
anyone who wants to can find this information

114
00:09:31,019 --> 00:09:35,180
every week. So, here's our dashboard for this

115
00:09:35,180 --> 00:09:37,985
week. Now, we had a pretty significant bump

116
00:09:37,985 --> 00:09:40,705
over the holidays, and I know last week,

117
00:09:41,425 --> 00:09:44,385
our test positivity rate rose to eleven percent.

118
00:09:45,025 --> 00:09:46,705
So, that was kind of worrying. But then,

119
00:09:46,705 --> 00:09:48,465
when you dig into the numbers, it was

120
00:09:48,465 --> 00:09:51,345
actually for the week that included New Year's,

121
00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:56,360
and there were very few tests performed, which

122
00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,120
I think just meant that the only tests

123
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,600
that were being done basically were probably through

124
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,079
like hospitals and things like that, where they're

125
00:10:03,079 --> 00:10:04,600
testing people who are sicker. So, I think

126
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,395
that's positivity rate temporarily like doubled for only

127
00:10:08,395 --> 00:10:13,515
a week. Our hospitalization rate in the county

128
00:10:13,515 --> 00:10:16,955
is about the same as it was, and

129
00:10:16,955 --> 00:10:19,675
our wastewater has had a huge decline. So,

130
00:10:20,510 --> 00:10:24,190
it's all pretty good to see. It seems

131
00:10:24,190 --> 00:10:28,350
like we're probably coming down from our holiday

132
00:10:28,350 --> 00:10:31,470
peak, particularly based on the wastewater and the

133
00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:36,155
fact that our hospitalizations have stopped climbing. Although,

134
00:10:36,155 --> 00:10:39,995
of course, we know hospitalizations lag cases, so

135
00:10:40,155 --> 00:10:43,035
they're still kind of high. So you can

136
00:10:43,035 --> 00:10:46,155
see our wastewater data here. The blue is

137
00:10:46,395 --> 00:10:50,250
Northampton, the green is Hampshire County, and the

138
00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:52,890
gray is nationally. And you can see our

139
00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:55,529
two local numbers here, they've declined quite a

140
00:10:55,529 --> 00:10:58,490
lot. They're kind of back to almost pre

141
00:10:58,490 --> 00:11:06,025
Thanksgiving levels. And flu, luckily, seems to have

142
00:11:06,025 --> 00:11:09,305
collapsed. I mean, if you look at it,

143
00:11:09,305 --> 00:11:13,720
we're really back to a typical season. Flu

144
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,120
is not gone, but it's not at these,

145
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,280
like, extremely high levels that we were seeing

146
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,240
for a while, which is great to see.

147
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,360
Now, I know that experts are predicting that

148
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,040
later in the season, most likely we're going

149
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,880
to get a second spike of flu B.

150
00:11:28,545 --> 00:11:32,225
It's hard to say how bad that'll be,

151
00:11:32,225 --> 00:11:35,904
but I know that I was hearing from

152
00:11:35,904 --> 00:11:38,305
DPH that they are expecting a second spike

153
00:11:38,305 --> 00:11:40,225
later in the season for flu. And then

154
00:11:40,225 --> 00:11:42,145
we know RSV is still circulating but at

155
00:11:42,145 --> 00:11:45,630
pretty low levels, so that also has quieted

156
00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:49,070
down. So all in all, right now, seems

157
00:11:49,070 --> 00:11:52,830
like cautiously good news for the time being

158
00:11:52,830 --> 00:11:57,195
in terms of respiratory illnesses. And as always,

159
00:11:57,274 --> 00:12:00,714
people should use the same techniques they've been

160
00:12:00,714 --> 00:12:04,795
using in terms of social distancing, masking, indoor

161
00:12:04,795 --> 00:12:08,634
ventilation, testing, staying home if they're sick, and

162
00:12:08,634 --> 00:12:17,710
all of that. Elliot, just the transmission rate.

163
00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:19,470
I'm sorry. The slide went by really quickly.

164
00:12:19,470 --> 00:12:24,045
We're still high with the transmission rate? Yeah,

165
00:12:24,045 --> 00:12:25,805
so we are still at the high level.

166
00:12:26,125 --> 00:12:30,125
Okay. And our best indicator now because of

167
00:12:30,125 --> 00:12:34,445
PCR testing and home testing is wastewater, is

168
00:12:34,445 --> 00:12:38,445
that correct? It seems like it. And I

169
00:12:38,445 --> 00:12:42,900
just was in a webinar with the CDC

170
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:46,020
about wastewater today, and they were saying that

171
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:52,740
wastewater has very, very reliably predicted hospitalizations. And

172
00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:55,545
so they're seeing that it really is a

173
00:12:55,545 --> 00:13:02,265
pretty good indicator. Great. Thank you. Thank you.

174
00:13:02,505 --> 00:13:04,745
I think, what I see at the hospital

175
00:13:04,745 --> 00:13:08,459
also reflects what you were saying. We had,

176
00:13:08,459 --> 00:13:10,380
and I don't remember which week it was,

177
00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:12,459
maybe the week after Christmas, we had an

178
00:13:12,459 --> 00:13:16,220
enormous jump in hospitalizations, like doubled, like wild,

179
00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:18,940
and then it went right back down. So

180
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:20,620
I'm not, you know, I think it was

181
00:13:20,620 --> 00:13:25,175
real, but definitely in a better place than

182
00:13:25,175 --> 00:13:33,895
it was. Any questions for Elliot? Okay, thank

183
00:13:33,895 --> 00:13:39,400
you so much. All right, I think we'll

184
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:45,640
go back to our hearing. Amy do you

185
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,720
remember, do we need to officially open and

186
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:54,095
close the hearing. Does anybody remember? I'm gonna

187
00:13:54,095 --> 00:13:56,495
think we do do that. I feel like

188
00:13:56,495 --> 00:13:58,334
we do. I don't know that for sure.

189
00:13:58,815 --> 00:14:04,680
Yeah. Okay. It would be safer to do

190
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:09,560
that. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought oh, there's

191
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:14,360
Hamed. Do you wanna let mister Habib be

192
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:27,195
a cohost? You got it. Okay. Where is

193
00:14:27,195 --> 00:14:35,030
he? Mister Habib, are you with us? Hi.

194
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:38,470
Yes. Hi. How are you today? Good. Welcome.

195
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:40,150
Do you want to turn on your video?

196
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:42,310
You don't have to, obviously. But you are

197
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:46,125
welcome to if you want to. There you

198
00:14:46,125 --> 00:14:49,805
are. Okay, great. So would someone like to

199
00:14:49,805 --> 00:14:54,125
make a motion to open the hearing regarding

200
00:14:54,125 --> 00:14:58,285
Jim's Variety Store? I'll motion. Is there a

201
00:14:58,285 --> 00:15:03,820
second? Second. Thank you. Any discussion? All in

202
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:10,140
favor? Suzanne? Yes. Dallas? Yes. Janet? Yes. Cynthia?

203
00:15:10,380 --> 00:15:15,735
Yes. Joanne, yes. Okay. Welcome back, Mr. Habib.

204
00:15:15,735 --> 00:15:20,935
Thank you. Thank you so much. So the

205
00:15:20,935 --> 00:15:23,894
last time we met, we had talked about

206
00:15:26,454 --> 00:15:32,870
the findings. And we had talked about the

207
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:37,430
fact that we were using the new state

208
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:41,910
regulations and that we had proposed the fine

209
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:47,215
of $1,000 but we were undecided about what

210
00:15:47,615 --> 00:15:56,335
is appropriate for that ban on sales. Meredith,

211
00:15:56,335 --> 00:16:00,810
unfortunately, couldn't be here tonight, but her recommendation

212
00:16:00,810 --> 00:16:10,330
is that because they cited rule six sixty

213
00:16:10,330 --> 00:16:14,235
five, which is the state reg, that we

214
00:16:14,235 --> 00:16:17,514
couldn't use our local reg. And then there

215
00:16:17,514 --> 00:16:19,915
was the whole issue about the state regs

216
00:16:19,915 --> 00:16:22,154
sort of because they were new, everyone was

217
00:16:22,154 --> 00:16:27,269
sort of starting fresh. There was a question

218
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:30,709
that Meredith had at that time about whether

219
00:16:30,709 --> 00:16:35,990
there was a mandatory ban on sales in

220
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:38,470
the state reg. But we discovered later that

221
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:40,834
that was only true if sales to a

222
00:16:40,834 --> 00:16:42,834
minor was the issue, which was not the

223
00:16:42,834 --> 00:16:47,954
issue here. So Meredith's recommendation is that we

224
00:16:47,954 --> 00:16:51,235
go with the fine and not with the,

225
00:16:51,875 --> 00:16:57,030
sales ban and complete this case. Does anybody

226
00:16:57,030 --> 00:17:08,734
have any comments? And Cheryl, welcome. Cheryl Sabar

227
00:17:08,734 --> 00:17:10,895
is with Thank you. I had a hard

228
00:17:10,895 --> 00:17:17,454
time getting on. What's new? So Cheryl, maybe

229
00:17:17,454 --> 00:17:20,000
I'll ask you to introduce yourself. So we

230
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,599
have some new members, and maybe we'll go

231
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,880
around and introduce ourselves because of this hearing,

232
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,600
there may be questions for you. Sure. I

233
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,159
am Cheryl Sabara. I am the Executive Director

234
00:17:32,159 --> 00:17:35,315
and Senior Staff Attorney for the Massachusetts Association

235
00:17:35,555 --> 00:17:38,035
of Health Boards. And in that capacity, I

236
00:17:38,035 --> 00:17:41,715
provide legal education and technical assistance to boards

237
00:17:41,715 --> 00:17:44,755
of health throughout the Commonwealth. I think what

238
00:17:44,755 --> 00:17:49,850
occurred here is that the state law now

239
00:17:49,850 --> 00:17:55,450
requires a suspension for the first offense of

240
00:17:55,450 --> 00:17:58,730
selling to someone under the age of 21.

241
00:17:59,610 --> 00:18:04,315
But that is the only mandatory suspension requirement

242
00:18:04,315 --> 00:18:07,355
in the state law for a first sale.

243
00:18:07,755 --> 00:18:12,794
And I believe that's why Meredith is suggesting

244
00:18:12,875 --> 00:18:17,710
that the fine alone would suffice in this

245
00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:24,909
case. Any questions for Mr. Habib, for me,

246
00:18:24,910 --> 00:18:32,365
or for Cheryl? I guess I kind of

247
00:18:32,365 --> 00:18:34,125
have a question, although I don't know who

248
00:18:34,125 --> 00:18:38,045
it's for. I just, pretty new to the

249
00:18:38,045 --> 00:18:40,285
Board of Health, and this was the first

250
00:18:40,679 --> 00:18:43,799
thing like this that has come up. I

251
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,120
remember, Meredith saying that this actually had not

252
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,399
been a first offense. And I don't know

253
00:18:53,399 --> 00:18:56,625
how that's counted or, you know, I think

254
00:18:56,625 --> 00:18:58,945
it was maybe, it was a first offense

255
00:18:58,945 --> 00:19:02,385
since these new regs, but it's not overall

256
00:19:02,385 --> 00:19:05,585
the first offense. So I find that a

257
00:19:05,585 --> 00:19:09,185
little concerning. I can give a little explanation

258
00:19:09,185 --> 00:19:13,040
of that if I'm allowed to. Sure, go

259
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,960
ahead. So I'm managing the store since last

260
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:22,400
ten years. Currently, I was actually going through

261
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,355
the state rules and regulations that if you

262
00:19:25,355 --> 00:19:27,435
have a violation and then for the next

263
00:19:27,435 --> 00:19:30,235
three years, you do not have any more

264
00:19:30,235 --> 00:19:33,835
violation than the previous one gets expunged from

265
00:19:33,835 --> 00:19:36,555
your record. So if after three years you

266
00:19:36,555 --> 00:19:40,300
have a new offense, new violation, then that

267
00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:43,740
is considered as the first one. So far

268
00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:46,700
in ten years, we never had any state

269
00:19:46,780 --> 00:19:53,500
related violations. For the city of Northampton, we

270
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:58,175
did had two violations before, but that also

271
00:19:58,175 --> 00:20:00,735
been a very, very long time ago. Our

272
00:20:00,735 --> 00:20:04,495
first violation was about eight years ago. It

273
00:20:04,495 --> 00:20:06,335
was selling to a miner. At that time

274
00:20:06,335 --> 00:20:08,909
we had a new employee and same thing

275
00:20:08,909 --> 00:20:13,389
happened. It's almost four years now since our

276
00:20:13,389 --> 00:20:18,190
last violation. So as far as anything else

277
00:20:18,190 --> 00:20:22,830
is concerned, this is our first violation on

278
00:20:23,525 --> 00:20:29,125
not selling to a minor. A point of

279
00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:33,285
clarification is that we have local regulations which

280
00:20:33,285 --> 00:20:36,164
are slightly different from the state ones, and

281
00:20:36,164 --> 00:20:39,419
ours tend to be more strict. And so

282
00:20:39,419 --> 00:20:44,460
our regulations say that there is no, what

283
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:46,380
they call, tolling period, meaning you get to

284
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:49,020
wipe your slate clean after three years, even

285
00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:53,065
though the state offers that. Our regulations don't,

286
00:20:53,065 --> 00:20:54,745
and that is something on our agenda tonight

287
00:20:54,745 --> 00:21:01,385
to discuss going forward. Cheryl, tell me if

288
00:21:01,385 --> 00:21:04,184
I'm correct. Because ours are more strict, we

289
00:21:04,184 --> 00:21:09,080
can go by ours. Yes, you can. That

290
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,000
the state law specifies that if the local

291
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,600
regulation is stricter, then you certainly can use

292
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,885
your own regulation. And I'd like to add

293
00:21:20,885 --> 00:21:23,684
Donna Bowman, Inspector Bowman is here with us

294
00:21:23,684 --> 00:21:26,804
who did the inspection and has the file

295
00:21:26,804 --> 00:21:29,365
for Jim's variety. So I'm not sure if

296
00:21:29,365 --> 00:21:32,804
you'd like her to speak to the history

297
00:21:32,804 --> 00:21:36,610
as well and that side to it. If

298
00:21:36,610 --> 00:21:39,090
you guys have any questions regarding that, Donna

299
00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:42,450
is here with us. Sure. Donna, do you

300
00:21:42,450 --> 00:21:43,730
have anything you want to add? I think

301
00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:46,450
we reviewed the specifics last time, but I

302
00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:47,730
don't know if you want to summarize them.

303
00:21:48,365 --> 00:21:51,965
Thank you for coming. Sure. Hi. Good evening,

304
00:21:51,965 --> 00:21:53,885
everyone. I don't have anything to add. I

305
00:21:53,885 --> 00:21:57,165
know we have reviewed everything that was on

306
00:21:57,885 --> 00:22:01,245
the violation list. There is nothing new or

307
00:22:02,765 --> 00:22:07,990
different to be reviewed. So, I don't have

308
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:14,230
anything else to offer with more news. Thank

309
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:17,855
you. Cheryl, just one question is, I guess

310
00:22:17,855 --> 00:22:22,095
Meredith had recommended that or said that the

311
00:22:22,095 --> 00:22:24,894
state had recommended that everybody get a clean

312
00:22:24,894 --> 00:22:28,414
slate because these new regs came in and

313
00:22:28,414 --> 00:22:29,934
we had sort of old regs and new

314
00:22:29,934 --> 00:22:32,575
regs. How do you recommend we approach that?

315
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:38,310
Well, is the recommendation normally given because of

316
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:40,950
the different tolling periods, because the effective date

317
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:44,790
of the regulation was during COVID, and boards

318
00:22:44,790 --> 00:22:48,735
weren't out actually enforcing for some time, And

319
00:22:48,735 --> 00:22:53,615
what the standard operating procedure at most boards

320
00:22:53,615 --> 00:22:56,495
was to start new with the thirty six

321
00:22:56,495 --> 00:23:00,575
months. However, with with Northampton, because you don't

322
00:23:00,575 --> 00:23:05,490
have a tolling period at all, the tolling

323
00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:07,890
period really isn't the issue. The issue is

324
00:23:07,890 --> 00:23:13,890
how do you wanna wipe out the old

325
00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:16,530
ones just because of the new law or

326
00:23:16,530 --> 00:23:18,495
do you wanna keep them in? And that's

327
00:23:18,495 --> 00:23:21,855
a judgment call that the board needs to

328
00:23:21,855 --> 00:23:30,255
make. Yeah. Meredith's recommendation is to let everyone

329
00:23:30,255 --> 00:23:36,100
start fresh, But it's up to you guys.

330
00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:49,815
Any thoughts? But does that impact this particular

331
00:23:49,815 --> 00:23:57,255
case? Or is that another discussion? Because Mr.

332
00:23:57,255 --> 00:24:00,055
Habib is acknowledging I don't have the data

333
00:24:00,055 --> 00:24:01,495
in front of me that this is this

334
00:24:01,495 --> 00:24:06,450
third offense, Yeah. It would impact this discussion

335
00:24:06,450 --> 00:24:11,809
if we decided not to let him start

336
00:24:11,809 --> 00:24:13,970
fresh and have this be his first offense,

337
00:24:13,970 --> 00:24:15,250
then we'd have to look at our regs,

338
00:24:15,250 --> 00:24:18,745
what the consequences are for a third offense

339
00:24:18,745 --> 00:24:22,425
if I'm reading the letter correctly that was

340
00:24:22,425 --> 00:24:27,625
sent to Mr. Habib it's listed as a

341
00:24:27,625 --> 00:24:32,600
first violation that That is what we notified

342
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,200
him about. So I would think that it

343
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,520
would not be right at this point to

344
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,360
change that. Oh, actually, the law that was

345
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,075
cited was the state law. So this was

346
00:24:45,075 --> 00:24:49,475
the first offense under the state law. But

347
00:24:49,795 --> 00:24:53,315
it was, that is how he was notified.

348
00:24:53,795 --> 00:24:56,515
So this would be, I don't think that

349
00:24:56,515 --> 00:25:00,650
this would be an opportune time to change

350
00:25:00,650 --> 00:25:05,370
that to a second or third offense. Does

351
00:25:05,370 --> 00:25:07,930
anyone have any other questions or thoughts or

352
00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:11,865
would someone like to make a proposal? May

353
00:25:11,865 --> 00:25:13,945
I just say, I apologize, but may I

354
00:25:13,945 --> 00:25:17,385
just say one other thing that I always

355
00:25:17,385 --> 00:25:19,305
say, and again, this is something for the

356
00:25:19,305 --> 00:25:23,465
board to consider, but what public health is,

357
00:25:23,465 --> 00:25:26,320
what we try to do in public health

358
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,560
is to get to compliance. We're not about

359
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,400
punishment, we're about compliance. That's the goal of

360
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960
everything that we do. So I just want

361
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,880
that to be out on the table in

362
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,445
public. Can I add something on on that

363
00:25:41,445 --> 00:25:46,325
part? We we have the tobacco as well

364
00:25:46,325 --> 00:25:49,124
as beer and wine in our store, and,

365
00:25:49,524 --> 00:25:54,500
we have some strong rules and regulations in

366
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,580
the store as well as far as checking

367
00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:59,220
IDs and making sure that none of the

368
00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:01,940
miners in our community are getting what they're

369
00:26:01,940 --> 00:26:05,825
not supposed to get. Beer and wine, as

370
00:26:05,825 --> 00:26:08,145
everybody knows, is required to have at least

371
00:26:08,145 --> 00:26:11,505
21 and over. We have zero violations in

372
00:26:11,505 --> 00:26:15,105
the history of this store. For the tobacco,

373
00:26:15,105 --> 00:26:17,770
yes, we had two selling to minor one,

374
00:26:17,770 --> 00:26:20,730
eight years ago, one, four years ago. Again,

375
00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:23,610
it's 100% agree that should not have happened.

376
00:26:23,610 --> 00:26:28,410
But when an employee changes, we get a

377
00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:30,845
new employee sometime. It does get a little

378
00:26:30,845 --> 00:26:33,405
difficult, but then I also understand that is

379
00:26:33,405 --> 00:26:35,405
our problem just to make sure that we

380
00:26:35,405 --> 00:26:39,885
have everything in place to train new employees

381
00:26:39,885 --> 00:26:44,639
better. So as far as compliance is concerned,

382
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,120
we have a very strict rules and regulations.

383
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,240
And if I have to make those stricter,

384
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,279
I will do anything to make sure that

385
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,635
these mistakes won't happen in the future. We

386
00:26:57,635 --> 00:27:00,355
appreciate that. You know, we take these regulations

387
00:27:00,355 --> 00:27:06,035
quite seriously. I myself have a 15 year

388
00:27:06,035 --> 00:27:07,395
old and a nine year old, and I

389
00:27:07,395 --> 00:27:11,110
definitely understand that how our community, you know,

390
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:14,149
people feel if their kids, you know, either

391
00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:17,830
smoking or, you know, drinking under the age

392
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:21,510
of 21, I completely understand that being father

393
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:25,565
myself. So I am doing it, plus further

394
00:27:25,565 --> 00:27:28,684
I'll do anything in my hands to make

395
00:27:28,684 --> 00:27:33,565
sure that these violations don't happen again. Great.

396
00:27:35,485 --> 00:27:40,790
Board members, anybody have any other questions? Or

397
00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:49,430
would someone like to make a motion? I

398
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:53,845
move to impose the $1,000 fine for this

399
00:27:53,845 --> 00:27:58,325
violation of our tobacco regulations and the fine

400
00:27:58,325 --> 00:28:05,845
only. I second. Any other comments, discussion, questions?

401
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:11,040
I mean, think actually procedurally we had already

402
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,920
done that. Had already I think we talked

403
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,600
about it, but I think we didn't vote.

404
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,815
That's what Meredith said. Oh, okay. I thought

405
00:28:20,815 --> 00:28:23,455
we had separated the fine from the suspension.

406
00:28:26,495 --> 00:28:34,175
Any other questions or comments? All in favor,

407
00:28:34,175 --> 00:28:41,369
Suzanne? Yes. Dallas? Yes. Janet? Yes. Cynthia? Yes.

408
00:28:41,530 --> 00:28:45,049
Joanne? Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you

409
00:28:45,049 --> 00:28:47,370
for coming, Mr. Habib. Thank you so much.

410
00:28:47,370 --> 00:28:50,215
And Wishing you good luck in the future.

411
00:28:50,215 --> 00:28:55,895
Thank you so much. Would someone like to

412
00:28:55,895 --> 00:29:02,855
close the hearing? Go ahead. Go ahead, Suzy.

413
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:07,299
Motion to close the hearing. Thanks, Suzanne. Second.

414
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:14,179
Any questions or comments? All in favor, Suzanne?

415
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:21,915
Yes. Dallas? Yes. Janet? Yes. Cynthia? Yes. Joanne,

416
00:29:21,915 --> 00:29:25,995
yes. Thank you all. I, I actually do

417
00:29:25,995 --> 00:29:30,635
have one comment just, listening to what Mr.

418
00:29:30,635 --> 00:29:33,035
Habib said about, you know, wanting to do

419
00:29:33,035 --> 00:29:36,100
anything he can to try to make sure

420
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:39,940
that it doesn't happen, particularly sales to minors.

421
00:29:39,940 --> 00:29:43,140
And I just really wanna emphasize the idea

422
00:29:43,140 --> 00:29:48,419
of training new employees, making them feel what

423
00:29:48,419 --> 00:29:52,325
you feel as a father young, you know,

424
00:29:52,325 --> 00:30:00,085
of young people. Then periodically checking in with

425
00:30:00,085 --> 00:30:04,245
them about it. I 100% agree with that.

426
00:30:04,245 --> 00:30:07,040
I'm already have started that. In fact, sometime

427
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,680
I use my family members or friends that

428
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,240
my employees haven't seen. I send them in

429
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,320
the store, hey, try to go. I sent

430
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,720
my niece who's 17 years old and I

431
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,005
sent her that, hey, try to go biopsy

432
00:30:21,005 --> 00:30:23,485
and let's see what happens. And I'm glad

433
00:30:23,485 --> 00:30:25,645
that, you know, it was in compliance. So

434
00:30:25,645 --> 00:30:27,565
I'm doing stuff like that as well just

435
00:30:27,565 --> 00:30:30,924
to make sure that, you know, we are

436
00:30:30,924 --> 00:30:37,780
there. Great. Thank you. Great. Thank you. And,

437
00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:40,019
mister Habib, if you could turn off your

438
00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:41,940
if you could mute and turn off your

439
00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:45,540
video, that would be helpful. Thank you. Okay.

440
00:30:52,554 --> 00:30:58,475
Is Robin here? Robin's here. Amy, can you

441
00:30:58,475 --> 00:31:05,210
unmute Robin and Rachel, please. Our next business

442
00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:08,330
is discussing racism at the community gardens. We

443
00:31:08,330 --> 00:31:14,330
have Robin McKeown and Rachel Ehrlich with us

444
00:31:15,875 --> 00:31:19,794
to present. You have documents you've received regarding

445
00:31:19,794 --> 00:31:22,195
this, both a letter that they sent to

446
00:31:22,195 --> 00:31:24,914
the board in December, as well as a

447
00:31:24,914 --> 00:31:29,330
statement that they proposed that they're looking for

448
00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:35,330
our endorsement. So Robin and Rachel, you may

449
00:31:35,330 --> 00:31:39,490
take it away. Thank you. Good evening. Thank

450
00:31:39,490 --> 00:31:41,490
you, Chair Levin, members of the board for

451
00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:44,515
having us tonight to discuss the racial equity

452
00:31:44,515 --> 00:31:48,195
initiative at the community garden in Northampton. I'm

453
00:31:48,195 --> 00:31:50,915
joined by several community gardeners and community members

454
00:31:50,915 --> 00:31:53,395
who are involved in this effort, including, I

455
00:31:53,395 --> 00:31:55,635
believe, Ellie Cook as well as Rachel Ehrlich.

456
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,760
Ellie and Rachel and I are the three

457
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,560
cosigners of the letter submitted to the board

458
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,840
last month describing the initiative, its proposal, and

459
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,400
the request that the board endorse the proposal.

460
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,080
So I'm gonna turn it over here to

461
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Rachel to present a summary of the initiative,

462
00:32:10,305 --> 00:32:12,625
the proposal, and our request to the board.

463
00:32:12,705 --> 00:32:15,105
And following that, we're all available to address

464
00:32:15,105 --> 00:32:18,385
any questions you may have. Amy, could you

465
00:32:18,385 --> 00:32:24,410
also give Ellie make her co host so

466
00:32:24,410 --> 00:32:27,530
she can put on her video and unmute.

467
00:32:28,170 --> 00:32:30,490
Is l oh, is Ellie the oh, there

468
00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:34,250
we go. The e. Yep. And I see

469
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:37,050
Robin. Where is Rachel? I got I am

470
00:32:37,050 --> 00:32:39,355
right here. Nice to meet There you are.

471
00:32:39,355 --> 00:32:42,075
Can everyone hear me all right? Yes. Great.

472
00:32:42,075 --> 00:32:45,195
Good evening, Chair Levin and other members of

473
00:32:45,195 --> 00:32:46,795
the Board of Health. We're really happy to

474
00:32:46,795 --> 00:32:49,355
be here. Thank you so much for taking

475
00:32:49,355 --> 00:32:51,550
the time to hear from us tonight about

476
00:32:51,550 --> 00:32:54,270
the Racial Equity Initiative at the Northampton Community

477
00:32:54,270 --> 00:32:57,710
Garden. I'm Rachel Ehrlich. I use sheher pronouns.

478
00:32:57,710 --> 00:32:59,550
I'm a gardener at the community garden and

479
00:32:59,550 --> 00:33:01,070
part of a group of gardeners that have

480
00:33:01,070 --> 00:33:04,030
been working on this initiative. I'm going to

481
00:33:04,030 --> 00:33:06,510
present tonight a brief summary of the initiative,

482
00:33:06,510 --> 00:33:09,174
its nexus us to public health, and our

483
00:33:09,174 --> 00:33:11,815
request for the board's endorsement of our proposal.

484
00:33:12,375 --> 00:33:15,095
The Northampton Community Garden is located on Burt's

485
00:33:15,095 --> 00:33:18,934
Pit Road. It offers four twenty garden pots,

486
00:33:18,934 --> 00:33:21,510
garden by over two fifty gardeners. It's a

487
00:33:21,510 --> 00:33:24,390
program of the Parks and Recreation Department, and

488
00:33:24,390 --> 00:33:26,870
is managed by a volunteer garden committee and

489
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:30,309
maintained by a community of gardeners. In recent

490
00:33:30,309 --> 00:33:34,115
years, multiple black gardeners have left the community

491
00:33:34,115 --> 00:33:36,674
gardens because of failures to address concerns of

492
00:33:36,674 --> 00:33:39,875
racial bias, and both past and present Black

493
00:33:39,875 --> 00:33:42,835
gardeners and other gardeners of color continue to

494
00:33:42,835 --> 00:33:45,154
report acts of bias and racism in our

495
00:33:45,154 --> 00:33:49,549
garden community. Recognizing the need to address the

496
00:33:49,549 --> 00:33:52,349
impacts of racial bias and related issues of

497
00:33:52,830 --> 00:33:56,029
safety, access, equity, and dignity on our community,

498
00:33:56,029 --> 00:33:58,029
a growing group of gardeners has been working

499
00:33:58,029 --> 00:33:59,455
for the past year and a half to

500
00:33:59,455 --> 00:34:02,015
ask that the Northampton Community Garden address these

501
00:34:02,015 --> 00:34:05,135
issues in both its policies and its practices.

502
00:34:06,095 --> 00:34:08,655
This group of gardeners has developed a proposed

503
00:34:08,655 --> 00:34:12,574
equity sustainability statement, which you have for adoption

504
00:34:12,574 --> 00:34:15,135
by the community garden. You've seen this statement

505
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,820
and accompanying FAQs. They were submitted to the

506
00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:21,380
board last month as attachments to the letter

507
00:34:21,380 --> 00:34:24,820
that we sent. The proposed statement articulates both

508
00:34:24,820 --> 00:34:29,054
an explicit commitment to addressing racial equity and

509
00:34:29,054 --> 00:34:32,094
importantly establishes a framework for development by the

510
00:34:32,094 --> 00:34:35,214
community gardeners of a plan of action. The

511
00:34:35,214 --> 00:34:38,494
group's proposal specifically asks that the Northampton Community

512
00:34:38,494 --> 00:34:43,690
Guard, one, adopt this equity and sustainability statement,

513
00:34:43,690 --> 00:34:47,369
and two, create a dedicated committee position on

514
00:34:47,369 --> 00:34:50,489
the garden committee for a volunteer representative to

515
00:34:50,489 --> 00:34:54,889
coordinate implementation of specific actions in support of

516
00:34:54,889 --> 00:34:59,325
this initiative. Similar initiatives undertaken by other community

517
00:34:59,325 --> 00:35:01,965
gardens have resulted in a range of actions,

518
00:35:01,965 --> 00:35:05,565
including implementation of frameworks to address equity and

519
00:35:05,565 --> 00:35:08,750
access in the assignment of garden plots, development

520
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:11,870
of safety protocols that reflect alternatives to increase

521
00:35:12,109 --> 00:35:16,270
police presence, providing educational resources to gardeners, and

522
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:19,790
partnering with local organizations to help amplify and

523
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:23,425
enhance the effectiveness of this work. I want

524
00:35:23,425 --> 00:35:25,984
to briefly now summarize the outreach that we've

525
00:35:25,984 --> 00:35:28,385
conducted to date. Over the past year and

526
00:35:28,385 --> 00:35:31,105
a half, this initiative has included outreach to

527
00:35:31,425 --> 00:35:34,224
the Parks and Recreation Department, the Garden Committee,

528
00:35:34,224 --> 00:35:37,829
gardeners, and neighbors to the garden, community members,

529
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:40,710
and city representatives. The garden committee and parks

530
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:43,430
and recreation have in the past indicated that

531
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:45,990
they don't have the expertise or capacity to

532
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:48,915
address these issues. And while we have deep

533
00:35:48,915 --> 00:35:50,915
respect for their work, we also believe that

534
00:35:50,915 --> 00:35:54,195
making real progress on an existing municipal commitment

535
00:35:54,355 --> 00:35:57,075
to issues of safety, equity, and dignity cannot

536
00:35:57,075 --> 00:36:00,275
be further delayed. So we continue our efforts

537
00:36:00,275 --> 00:36:02,619
while we look forward to a future opportunity

538
00:36:02,619 --> 00:36:04,300
to work with the garden committee and the

539
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,060
parks and recreation toward these goals. In the

540
00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:11,580
meantime, this past August, we began additional outreach

541
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:14,714
to gardeners to share the proposal. And despite

542
00:36:14,714 --> 00:36:17,595
starting somewhat late in the gardening season, over

543
00:36:17,595 --> 00:36:20,075
20% of gardeners have been already reached and

544
00:36:20,075 --> 00:36:22,474
signed on to support of the proposal. This

545
00:36:22,474 --> 00:36:24,315
fall and into the winter, we continued a

546
00:36:24,315 --> 00:36:27,035
series of informal conversations with community members and

547
00:36:27,035 --> 00:36:30,540
city representatives to familiarize themselves with them with

548
00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:33,900
the initiative. Responses to all of this outreach

549
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:38,700
has been really overwhelmingly positive and supportive. Finally,

550
00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:39,980
and I know thank you so much for

551
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:41,660
continuing to listen. I know I've been talking

552
00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:43,175
for a bit. I want to address the

553
00:36:43,175 --> 00:36:45,575
nexus to public health. As all of you

554
00:36:45,575 --> 00:36:48,135
are aware, the social conditions in the environments

555
00:36:48,135 --> 00:36:51,575
where we live, learn, work and recreate affect

556
00:36:51,575 --> 00:36:54,295
our health and our quality of life. Racism

557
00:36:54,295 --> 00:36:57,279
and racial bias in these environments correlate to

558
00:36:57,279 --> 00:37:02,160
significant measurable negative health outcomes. Understanding this, both

559
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,760
the City Council and the Board of Health

560
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,960
have adopted resolutions that explicitly identify racism as

561
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,255
an ongoing public health crisis, identify action at

562
00:37:10,255 --> 00:37:13,295
the local level as essential and importantly, commit

563
00:37:13,295 --> 00:37:15,695
to ongoing action to address this public health

564
00:37:15,695 --> 00:37:18,575
crisis. As you know, the Board of Health's

565
00:37:18,575 --> 00:37:21,055
twenty twenty resolution declaring racism a public health

566
00:37:21,055 --> 00:37:23,935
emergency acknowledged that the ongoing public health crisis

567
00:37:23,935 --> 00:37:26,869
of racism results in health disparities and unequal

568
00:37:26,869 --> 00:37:29,670
access. And for those reasons, the board resolved

569
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:32,070
to commit to ongoing work around racial justice.

570
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:35,430
In that context, endorsement of our proposal is

571
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:37,269
aligned with the City Council and the Board

572
00:37:37,269 --> 00:37:40,815
of Health's resolutions, and represents a small but

573
00:37:40,815 --> 00:37:43,055
real step toward the stated commitment to address

574
00:37:43,055 --> 00:37:44,895
the public health crisis of racism in our

575
00:37:44,895 --> 00:37:50,175
community. Underscoring this, the racial equity initiative underway

576
00:37:50,175 --> 00:37:51,855
at the Community Garden has been presented to

577
00:37:51,855 --> 00:37:54,300
the Northampton Human Rights Commission, and the Human

578
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:57,420
Rights Commission has voted to endorse the proposal.

579
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:01,500
Finally, in closing, we're heartened to know that

580
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,100
both the City Council and the Board of

581
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:05,740
Health have explicitly committed to addressing racial equity

582
00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:09,305
and racial disparities as a public health concern.

583
00:38:09,385 --> 00:38:11,385
In keeping with this commitment, we're here tonight

584
00:38:11,385 --> 00:38:13,545
to request that the Board of Health stand

585
00:38:13,545 --> 00:38:16,505
with the Northampton Human Rights Commission and endorse

586
00:38:16,505 --> 00:38:19,065
the proposal that the Northampton Community Garden adopt

587
00:38:19,065 --> 00:38:22,829
the equity and sustainability statement with its embedded

588
00:38:22,829 --> 00:38:26,190
framework for action and create a dedicated position

589
00:38:26,190 --> 00:38:28,829
on the garden committee for a volunteer representative

590
00:38:28,829 --> 00:38:33,230
to coordinate implementation of this necessary work. Should

591
00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:35,630
the board vote to endorse this proposal, we

592
00:38:35,630 --> 00:38:38,204
ask that the board consider summarizing its endorsement

593
00:38:38,204 --> 00:38:40,925
in a brief written statement or titled letter.

594
00:38:41,404 --> 00:38:43,244
I want to end by thanking you all

595
00:38:43,244 --> 00:38:44,845
for your time, and note that there are

596
00:38:44,845 --> 00:38:46,365
several of us here tonight who would be

597
00:38:46,365 --> 00:38:48,605
happy to answer questions. Thank you again so

598
00:38:48,605 --> 00:38:56,550
much for listening. Thank you so much. Board

599
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:59,910
members, does anybody have any questions? We've got

600
00:38:59,990 --> 00:39:04,310
Rachel, Robin and Ellie here representing folks from

601
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:07,585
the garden. Any questions? You should have received

602
00:39:07,585 --> 00:39:10,385
the copy of the letter as well as

603
00:39:10,385 --> 00:39:13,585
the statement that they're asking for us to

604
00:39:13,585 --> 00:39:22,460
endorse. Any questions? Comments? I have two questions.

605
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:27,020
As we move forward to try to help

606
00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:31,435
address racism as a public health issue, information

607
00:39:31,435 --> 00:39:33,675
about what's going on would be very helpful

608
00:39:33,675 --> 00:39:38,555
to me. So acknowledging that you've said that

609
00:39:38,555 --> 00:39:41,675
there have been events, it would help me

610
00:39:41,675 --> 00:39:45,510
to know the nature of these, the context

611
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:49,190
in which they occurred. That would just help

612
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:51,830
me on a personal level. And my second

613
00:39:51,830 --> 00:39:55,350
question is, how will our support help your

614
00:39:55,350 --> 00:40:05,245
efforts? Those are excellent questions. Thank you so

615
00:40:05,245 --> 00:40:07,485
much. Robin, I'm gonna ask you to unmute

616
00:40:07,485 --> 00:40:09,245
if it's okay so we can address this

617
00:40:09,245 --> 00:40:13,725
together. Robin, would you start by detailing just,

618
00:40:13,885 --> 00:40:15,485
so first of all, I wanna say, Chris,

619
00:40:15,485 --> 00:40:17,470
thank you so much for your question. We're

620
00:40:17,470 --> 00:40:19,710
not in a position, obviously, to detail all

621
00:40:19,710 --> 00:40:21,550
of the events that have been experienced by

622
00:40:21,550 --> 00:40:24,430
black gardeners or gardeners of color, but we're

623
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:26,830
happy to enumerate an example of the kinds

624
00:40:26,830 --> 00:40:29,390
of things that we have heard. Robin, would

625
00:40:29,390 --> 00:40:30,750
you take that, and then I'll answer the

626
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:34,225
second part of Chris's question. Sure. I'm aware

627
00:40:35,585 --> 00:40:39,585
from conversations with gardeners of color of a

628
00:40:39,585 --> 00:40:41,425
range of experiences. And I'll just start with

629
00:40:41,425 --> 00:40:43,665
my own experience as a white gardener. I've

630
00:40:43,665 --> 00:40:45,505
been a gardener for over ten years. I've

631
00:40:45,505 --> 00:40:47,105
spent a lot of time in the garden,

632
00:40:47,330 --> 00:40:50,050
and I have never once been questioned as

633
00:40:50,050 --> 00:40:53,570
to whether I belong there, when I'm gardening

634
00:40:53,570 --> 00:40:56,050
or walking through the garden. The most common

635
00:40:56,050 --> 00:40:59,890
story that I've heard is the level of

636
00:40:59,890 --> 00:41:03,045
interrogation that gardeners of color experience over time,

637
00:41:03,045 --> 00:41:06,005
the questioning about whether they belong, what are

638
00:41:06,005 --> 00:41:08,645
they doing in that plot, is it their

639
00:41:08,645 --> 00:41:12,485
plot, those types of interactions. There was an

640
00:41:12,485 --> 00:41:14,485
event, a little over a year and a

641
00:41:14,485 --> 00:41:17,580
half ago that spurred on this current work.

642
00:41:18,619 --> 00:41:23,819
A young black child was verbally assaulted and

643
00:41:23,819 --> 00:41:29,099
accused of theft. And that event, in combination

644
00:41:29,099 --> 00:41:31,985
with others, led to multiple black gardeners leaving

645
00:41:31,985 --> 00:41:34,225
the garden, feeling that there was a failure

646
00:41:34,225 --> 00:41:37,345
to address both what had transpired in that

647
00:41:37,345 --> 00:41:39,265
event and and the larger issue of of

648
00:41:39,265 --> 00:41:41,185
racial bias and and white privilege and how

649
00:41:41,185 --> 00:41:42,545
all of these things play out in a

650
00:41:42,545 --> 00:41:45,740
majority white space, which is what this community

651
00:41:45,740 --> 00:41:50,940
garden is. I each of the gardeners of

652
00:41:50,940 --> 00:41:53,260
color, past and present, that I have spoken

653
00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:55,660
with have had their own story to tell

654
00:41:55,660 --> 00:42:00,055
about an experience. And, you know, as Rachel

655
00:42:00,055 --> 00:42:04,215
said, it's not my place really to, I

656
00:42:04,215 --> 00:42:06,695
think, go much further into their stories and

657
00:42:06,695 --> 00:42:10,135
their experiences in the garden. But to say

658
00:42:10,135 --> 00:42:13,690
that these are the stories we hear all

659
00:42:13,690 --> 00:42:16,329
over our country, right, coming out of majority

660
00:42:16,329 --> 00:42:18,569
white spaces. I don't think there's I don't

661
00:42:18,569 --> 00:42:21,369
think we're an outlier, in the community garden.

662
00:42:21,529 --> 00:42:25,484
But I think that as with the rest

663
00:42:25,484 --> 00:42:27,724
of our our community and our communities across

664
00:42:27,724 --> 00:42:29,964
this country, we we do need to acknowledge

665
00:42:29,964 --> 00:42:31,565
that these things are happening and we need

666
00:42:31,565 --> 00:42:34,204
to act. So I hope that answers enough

667
00:42:34,204 --> 00:42:37,885
of your question, Chris. Yeah. Regarding the nature

668
00:42:37,885 --> 00:42:41,270
and context. I apologize. That's the wrong name.

669
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:48,310
I'm Suzanne. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so

670
00:42:48,310 --> 00:42:50,310
sorry too. Sorry about that, Suzanne. You have

671
00:42:50,310 --> 00:42:52,630
no way of knowing. How would you know?

672
00:42:53,295 --> 00:42:54,734
Has to be changed at the beginning of

673
00:42:54,734 --> 00:42:58,815
the meeting and skip right past that. That's

674
00:42:58,815 --> 00:43:03,615
very helpful to me. In reading through the

675
00:43:03,615 --> 00:43:07,694
materials, recognize you need to honor people's privacy

676
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:13,880
and not trigger people by having their particular

677
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:19,160
stories spoken about in public without their consent.

678
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,445
But I had no idea the nature of

679
00:43:23,445 --> 00:43:26,165
what you were referring to. So what you

680
00:43:26,165 --> 00:43:30,325
have said was very helpful. Rachel, did you

681
00:43:30,325 --> 00:43:33,045
want to answer the second question? I'm happy

682
00:43:33,045 --> 00:43:40,059
to answer the second question. Change specifically around

683
00:43:40,059 --> 00:43:42,380
racism in this country and in our community

684
00:43:42,380 --> 00:43:48,300
is slow. And the endorsement of your body

685
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:51,260
in particular in relation to issues of public

686
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:54,644
health and emphasizing that this is a public

687
00:43:54,644 --> 00:43:57,845
health issue amplifies this issue in the community,

688
00:43:58,085 --> 00:44:00,005
and that is necessary in order for us

689
00:44:00,005 --> 00:44:03,444
to continue to spur change. We're trying to

690
00:44:03,444 --> 00:44:06,900
put some pressure to move and also create

691
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:09,380
some collaborative bodies that will help us continue

692
00:44:09,380 --> 00:44:12,099
to do this work. Robin, did you want

693
00:44:12,099 --> 00:44:13,700
to add anything else to the second part

694
00:44:13,700 --> 00:44:19,380
of that question? No, that's perfect, Rachel. So

695
00:44:19,380 --> 00:44:25,515
I have some questions. I don't know a

696
00:44:25,515 --> 00:44:27,275
whole lot about the garden. I'm not a

697
00:44:27,275 --> 00:44:31,035
gardener, but I live very close by and

698
00:44:31,035 --> 00:44:36,315
walk through there. And my understanding is that

699
00:44:36,315 --> 00:44:42,090
the guarding committee itself is all volunteer. So

700
00:44:42,730 --> 00:44:46,650
I guess I'm just wondering, I mean, honestly,

701
00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:48,250
to me, this is a little bit of

702
00:44:48,250 --> 00:44:51,210
a no brainer in terms of what you're

703
00:44:51,210 --> 00:44:57,315
asking, but I'm wondering why it I understand

704
00:44:57,315 --> 00:44:59,395
the second part about getting the endorsement from

705
00:44:59,395 --> 00:45:04,675
the Board of Health, but I'm wondering why

706
00:45:05,635 --> 00:45:09,119
the guarding committee just hasn't said, Sure, if

707
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:13,920
you wanna have a representative, great. So that's

708
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,920
a question, I guess. I know they're all

709
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:22,640
very hardworking volunteers with good intent, so that's

710
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,935
a question. I'm wondering if there are any

711
00:45:29,015 --> 00:45:31,975
Black or brown people that are part of

712
00:45:31,975 --> 00:45:36,535
your group, thinking about the whole thing of

713
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:41,430
nothing about us without us. It feels a

714
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:45,990
little funny to me if everybody in your

715
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:49,670
group are white people who are saying this

716
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:52,565
is what kind of needs to happen. So

717
00:45:52,565 --> 00:45:54,165
there's that. And I guess the third thing

718
00:45:54,165 --> 00:45:57,525
is just around governance in general of the

719
00:45:57,525 --> 00:46:02,165
guarding committee. Is there a decision making process

720
00:46:02,165 --> 00:46:04,805
for how things happen there? What is the

721
00:46:04,805 --> 00:46:10,849
governance so that this could move forward? If

722
00:46:10,849 --> 00:46:12,130
you don't mind, I'm gonna take your questions

723
00:46:12,130 --> 00:46:13,809
a little bit out of order and speak

724
00:46:13,809 --> 00:46:16,210
to first the fact that we are a

725
00:46:16,369 --> 00:46:18,289
group of white people, although I will say

726
00:46:18,289 --> 00:46:20,289
that some gardeners of color have signed on

727
00:46:20,289 --> 00:46:22,825
to our initiative, but as a body of

728
00:46:22,825 --> 00:46:24,425
people who has been working together, we are

729
00:46:24,425 --> 00:46:29,305
the delight people. In no way would we

730
00:46:29,305 --> 00:46:32,345
ever presume to speak for or stand in

731
00:46:32,345 --> 00:46:34,760
the way of any initiative brought to the

732
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,680
garden by people of color. And I firmly

733
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,640
believe that this is a white problem that

734
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,640
exists in the community garden, and it's time

735
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,640
for white people to step up and respond

736
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,995
to that problem so that people of color

737
00:46:47,995 --> 00:46:50,395
can go about the business of gardening in

738
00:46:50,395 --> 00:46:52,555
the garden in a safe and thoughtful and

739
00:46:52,555 --> 00:46:55,355
in a way that in which they feel

740
00:46:56,795 --> 00:46:59,755
welcomed and white people have not created that.

741
00:46:59,755 --> 00:47:03,420
So I agree with what you said, you

742
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:07,180
know, nothing for us without us. I think

743
00:47:07,180 --> 00:47:11,260
that that is excellent, and I also believe

744
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:12,780
that it's time for white people to do

745
00:47:12,780 --> 00:47:16,060
this work. I will say that at one

746
00:47:16,060 --> 00:47:19,484
point in the process, shortly after the incident

747
00:47:19,484 --> 00:47:23,885
that Robin mentioned, we were offered to take

748
00:47:23,885 --> 00:47:27,005
a seat on the garden committee to speak

749
00:47:27,005 --> 00:47:30,980
to issues of racism and racial equity. And

750
00:47:30,980 --> 00:47:33,700
that offer was retracted. And we don't really

751
00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:37,059
know why that is. The only thing we've

752
00:47:37,059 --> 00:47:40,420
heard with regard to why the garden committee

753
00:47:40,420 --> 00:47:42,339
has not been able to work with us

754
00:47:43,235 --> 00:47:46,835
is a response about capacity and timing. And

755
00:47:46,835 --> 00:47:48,515
I think Robin can speak a little bit

756
00:47:48,515 --> 00:47:50,595
more to some of the opaqueness of how

757
00:47:50,595 --> 00:47:56,700
the garden committee works. Well, my answer to

758
00:47:56,700 --> 00:47:58,780
the question about governance structure and how it

759
00:47:58,780 --> 00:48:00,140
works is that I I I don't I

760
00:48:00,140 --> 00:48:04,620
don't know. I I have the same questions,

761
00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:07,020
I think, that you do. I know some

762
00:48:07,020 --> 00:48:08,700
of the members of the committee, though I'm

763
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:10,865
not aware of who all of them are.

764
00:48:10,865 --> 00:48:14,305
We have, throughout the process of doing this

765
00:48:14,305 --> 00:48:16,625
work, reached out a number of times to

766
00:48:16,625 --> 00:48:18,625
the committee to share our concerns, to share

767
00:48:18,625 --> 00:48:21,665
our suggestions, to share our interest, to provide

768
00:48:21,665 --> 00:48:25,105
updates. But, the response we've received is that

769
00:48:26,250 --> 00:48:27,530
at one point, it was that they didn't

770
00:48:27,530 --> 00:48:29,770
have the expertise to discuss the issue. At

771
00:48:29,770 --> 00:48:31,210
another point, it was that they didn't have

772
00:48:31,210 --> 00:48:32,810
time to meet with us. So I I

773
00:48:32,810 --> 00:48:36,250
I don't know enough about the governance structure

774
00:48:36,250 --> 00:48:38,890
or how committee members are selected or how

775
00:48:38,890 --> 00:48:41,015
decisions are made to to answer that question.

776
00:48:41,015 --> 00:48:43,815
I apologize about that. I wish I did.

777
00:48:44,055 --> 00:48:46,215
I just want to Oh, could I say

778
00:48:46,215 --> 00:48:50,135
something, Rachel? Are you Okay. Thing number one,

779
00:48:50,135 --> 00:48:53,735
it's very opaque. The whole governance governance of

780
00:48:53,735 --> 00:48:56,510
the garden committee is opaque. There are a

781
00:48:56,510 --> 00:48:59,550
couple of people who seem to be running

782
00:48:59,550 --> 00:49:02,750
everything and they get a lot of work

783
00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:05,790
done and they're very effective in the actual

784
00:49:05,790 --> 00:49:08,135
work of the garden in terms of you

785
00:49:08,135 --> 00:49:10,135
know getting the hay the straw to be

786
00:49:10,135 --> 00:49:12,855
delivered and the compost and all that and

787
00:49:12,855 --> 00:49:15,575
to get people to do some garden work

788
00:49:15,575 --> 00:49:17,415
but I'd also like to point out that

789
00:49:17,415 --> 00:49:20,214
we have very few black gardeners or brown

790
00:49:20,214 --> 00:49:22,615
ones either and I think that a lot

791
00:49:22,615 --> 00:49:24,910
of that is because quite a few of

792
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:30,830
them have left and the one I've spoken

793
00:49:30,830 --> 00:49:32,990
to a couple of the black gardeners who

794
00:49:32,990 --> 00:49:35,630
are actually more than a couple the brown

795
00:49:35,630 --> 00:49:38,350
gardeners just aren't interested in getting involved in

796
00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:41,155
this They just don't want to. And I

797
00:49:41,155 --> 00:49:43,474
spoke to one black gardener and he said

798
00:49:43,474 --> 00:49:48,195
he just just was like no because he

799
00:49:48,195 --> 00:49:50,915
was I think he was afraid but I

800
00:49:50,915 --> 00:49:54,560
don't know that. I've also seen, I've witnessed

801
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:59,520
evidence of this kind of challenging people of

802
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,000
color who come to the garden for some

803
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,720
reason or another, and they're asked why they're

804
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:07,704
there. And I've seen that happen twice in

805
00:50:07,704 --> 00:50:10,425
my time there which I'm sure it's happened

806
00:50:10,425 --> 00:50:13,224
more often and we do have one black

807
00:50:13,224 --> 00:50:16,744
gardener who thought about leaving when everybody else

808
00:50:16,744 --> 00:50:20,184
left but she decided to stay and she

809
00:50:20,619 --> 00:50:24,859
has a beautiful garden, amazing garden and she

810
00:50:24,859 --> 00:50:27,180
and so does the gentleman who didn't want

811
00:50:27,180 --> 00:50:29,740
to be involved and she and there aren't

812
00:50:29,740 --> 00:50:32,220
that many there just aren't that many black

813
00:50:32,220 --> 00:50:35,474
people. There are quite a few there's like

814
00:50:35,474 --> 00:50:41,474
a large contingent of Guatemalan gardeners formerly Guatemalan

815
00:50:41,474 --> 00:50:46,515
now American gardeners who are really prolific gardeners

816
00:50:46,515 --> 00:50:49,020
wonderful gardeners but they are not just not

817
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:52,780
interested in all the ins and outs of

818
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:56,940
our discussion so that's my been my experience

819
00:50:56,940 --> 00:51:00,060
and I walked around asking people to sign

820
00:51:00,380 --> 00:51:03,105
so I've had a lot of experience just

821
00:51:03,105 --> 00:51:06,785
trying to figure out who was interested and

822
00:51:06,785 --> 00:51:09,505
who wasn't or who was afraid and I

823
00:51:09,505 --> 00:51:12,545
felt fear you know from the man and

824
00:51:12,545 --> 00:51:15,905
from the woman she's willing to join on

825
00:51:15,905 --> 00:51:18,145
and I'm pretty sure she will be part

826
00:51:18,145 --> 00:51:22,560
of this group our group very soon. So

827
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:25,760
other than that, I mean, think I know

828
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,480
of only one other black gardener besides those

829
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,640
two I mentioned, and there may be more,

830
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,715
but this this is the problem. We're not

831
00:51:32,715 --> 00:51:35,435
we're not making it accessible we're not bringing

832
00:51:35,435 --> 00:51:38,075
people in and so if we're not bringing

833
00:51:38,075 --> 00:51:40,635
people in and people have left it gets

834
00:51:40,635 --> 00:51:43,595
wider and wider and wider you know okay

835
00:51:43,595 --> 00:51:45,035
so that's really all I had to say

836
00:51:45,035 --> 00:51:49,579
I'm sorry. Thanks, Sally. Is it true that

837
00:51:49,579 --> 00:51:53,339
the garden falls under Parks and Recreation? That

838
00:51:53,339 --> 00:51:55,819
is correct. It's a program of the Department

839
00:51:55,819 --> 00:51:58,299
of Parks and Rec. Have you approached them

840
00:51:58,299 --> 00:52:00,925
at all about how what what the governance

841
00:52:00,925 --> 00:52:02,525
structure is and how one gets on the

842
00:52:02,525 --> 00:52:04,925
garden committee and that kind of thing? We

843
00:52:05,565 --> 00:52:08,445
all of the conversation that we have had

844
00:52:08,445 --> 00:52:11,885
about, our work has been transmitted both to

845
00:52:11,885 --> 00:52:14,270
the garden committee and to the parks and

846
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:19,950
rec commissioner. Actually, director of the department. Sorry.

847
00:52:19,950 --> 00:52:21,950
And the director of the department of recs.

848
00:52:21,950 --> 00:52:27,095
And again, the response back has been minimal

849
00:52:27,095 --> 00:52:32,214
at best. Thank you. Any other questions or

850
00:52:32,214 --> 00:52:38,230
comments from the board members? I'd just like

851
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:42,950
to comment that the city has a gem

852
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:46,710
with the community garden, this beautiful piece of

853
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:51,110
land. I just want to harken back to

854
00:52:51,110 --> 00:52:55,145
some work Grow Food Northampton does, not owned

855
00:52:55,145 --> 00:52:58,425
by the city but on city property, and

856
00:52:58,425 --> 00:53:07,430
how they outreach to several populations equating food

857
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:10,630
and justice and health as all the same

858
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:14,790
thing. For their plots and their land, the

859
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:17,829
process is completely transparent. As a matter of

860
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:22,355
fact, it's on sliding scale and land is

861
00:53:22,355 --> 00:53:26,835
often donated to gardeners of color. Gardeners of

862
00:53:26,835 --> 00:53:28,755
color that may not even know how to

863
00:53:28,755 --> 00:53:31,770
farm or garden are taught that. And so

864
00:53:31,770 --> 00:53:35,530
we have an example in the community. It's

865
00:53:35,530 --> 00:53:38,330
a nonprofit. And I just think we have

866
00:53:38,330 --> 00:53:41,290
so much potential to do the same thing

867
00:53:41,370 --> 00:53:44,435
in the city's community garden. And I just

868
00:53:44,435 --> 00:53:47,155
want to harken back to the city council's

869
00:53:47,155 --> 00:53:51,395
resolution similar to our resolution. The city council

870
00:53:51,395 --> 00:53:53,715
said in 2020 that they were going to

871
00:53:54,595 --> 00:53:57,955
establish a department of diversity, equity and inclusion.

872
00:53:58,770 --> 00:54:02,210
They never have. So the Human Rights Commission

873
00:54:02,210 --> 00:54:06,210
is kind of carrying that and with very

874
00:54:06,210 --> 00:54:11,730
little authority. We too adopted a resolution saying

875
00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:17,415
linking racism to health. And so I think

876
00:54:17,415 --> 00:54:20,775
we have an opportunity here. So I hope

877
00:54:20,775 --> 00:54:26,455
we can endorse the recommendations and also perhaps

878
00:54:26,455 --> 00:54:29,770
write a letter of support. I'm going to

879
00:54:29,770 --> 00:54:33,690
share, see if I can share my screen,

880
00:54:33,690 --> 00:54:37,050
and I'll just put up the proposed language.

881
00:54:38,650 --> 00:54:51,445
Let's see if this works. Does that work?

882
00:54:55,670 --> 00:55:00,309
Okay. So this is the statement that, the

883
00:55:00,309 --> 00:55:02,710
garden committee that you guys are looking for

884
00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:05,589
us to endorse. And we would put it

885
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:13,585
in a letter form. Joanne, may I add

886
00:55:13,585 --> 00:55:17,185
one thing? Sure. Mhmm. Just to clarify, the

887
00:55:17,185 --> 00:55:18,865
proposal that we would be looking for you

888
00:55:18,865 --> 00:55:22,599
to endorse is essentially two parts. One is,

889
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,640
adoption of the statement, and the second is

890
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:28,440
creation of a dedicated seat on the garden

891
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,440
committee to essentially lead facilitate implementation of the

892
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,040
effort. So there's the two parts to the

893
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:40,025
proposal. Well, I think as part of the

894
00:55:40,105 --> 00:55:42,665
in the role of Board of Health, we

895
00:55:42,665 --> 00:55:45,945
can choose to adopt a statement. But, I

896
00:55:45,945 --> 00:55:47,785
mean, I think we could support the idea

897
00:55:47,785 --> 00:55:49,850
of a dedicated position on the garden committee,

898
00:55:49,850 --> 00:55:52,730
but obviously we don't have authority over that.

899
00:55:53,050 --> 00:55:57,050
My thought was simply endorsement of our proposal.

900
00:55:57,050 --> 00:55:58,970
Of course, you don't have authority to enact

901
00:55:58,970 --> 00:56:08,875
any of those things. Right. Any other comments?

902
00:56:08,875 --> 00:56:19,020
Does anyone want to make a motion? I

903
00:56:19,020 --> 00:56:22,300
think your work is certainly in line with

904
00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:27,065
the statement that we put together a couple

905
00:56:27,065 --> 00:56:30,904
of years ago about racial disparity and health

906
00:56:30,904 --> 00:56:37,384
and how they're intertwined. Would anyone like to

907
00:56:37,384 --> 00:56:44,560
make a motion? I move that the Board

908
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,640
of Health adopt and support the resolution that

909
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,119
was presented to us by the, what's called

910
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:58,635
the Community Garden Committee and perhaps write a

911
00:56:58,635 --> 00:57:03,115
formal endorsement as well. So you're proposing adopting

912
00:57:03,115 --> 00:57:08,849
that statement or acknowledging that statement and supporting

913
00:57:08,849 --> 00:57:11,890
the dedicated position on the garden committee, both

914
00:57:11,890 --> 00:57:18,130
parts? Yes. With a letter. Did that affect?

915
00:57:19,650 --> 00:57:24,545
Yes. Thanks, Joanne. Is there a second for

916
00:57:24,545 --> 00:57:28,785
that? I'll second it. Thank you, Dallas. Any

917
00:57:28,785 --> 00:57:39,710
other discussion? I guess I just wish we

918
00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:44,030
had a little more information from the guarding

919
00:57:44,030 --> 00:57:47,630
committee itself or the Parks and Rec, like

920
00:57:51,724 --> 00:57:59,724
Because I just don't understand why with the

921
00:57:59,724 --> 00:58:04,260
explanation that this group has been given, which

922
00:58:04,260 --> 00:58:11,700
is not really an explanation, I I don't

923
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:13,940
know if there's something, if we're going to

924
00:58:13,940 --> 00:58:18,644
do this, if we can also in our

925
00:58:18,644 --> 00:58:24,085
letter make a statement about how we, I

926
00:58:24,085 --> 00:58:30,579
mean, all the boards, everything's interconnected an effort

927
00:58:30,579 --> 00:58:35,700
to be a healthy community. So we would

928
00:58:35,700 --> 00:58:41,140
want to see, like, the Parks and Rec

929
00:58:41,140 --> 00:58:51,535
Committee be involved in this? Do you want

930
00:58:51,535 --> 00:58:56,815
to make an amendment to Cynthia's proposal that

931
00:58:57,135 --> 00:58:58,815
asks for Parks and Recs to have transparency?

932
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:01,880
Well, I guess I'd like to know what

933
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:10,599
Board members think of that idea. I just

934
00:59:10,599 --> 00:59:15,215
think that asking Parks and Rec to come

935
00:59:15,215 --> 00:59:18,335
to the Board of Health meeting on this

936
00:59:18,335 --> 00:59:24,895
particular issue, think I have to trust the

937
00:59:24,895 --> 00:59:27,775
presenters having gone to the Parks and Rec

938
00:59:28,495 --> 00:59:31,870
Commission And also, I think you all went

939
00:59:31,870 --> 00:59:34,510
to their meetings, right, and made statements. Have

940
00:59:34,510 --> 00:59:39,710
you done that, just to clarify? So I

941
00:59:39,710 --> 00:59:44,545
can address that. Our anticipated, next stop, and

942
00:59:44,545 --> 00:59:47,745
we've been making our choices about who we've

943
00:59:47,745 --> 00:59:49,905
spoken with and who we presented to based

944
00:59:49,905 --> 00:59:53,025
on really support and recommendations we've been receiving

945
00:59:53,025 --> 00:59:57,520
from individuals and representatives throughout the city, I

946
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:00,079
I anticipate our next stop is to go

947
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,319
back to parks and rec to the Commission.

948
01:00:02,319 --> 01:00:04,480
HAB We were hoping to be added to

949
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,319
their agenda I'm not sure that that's going

950
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:08,559
to happen, so I expect our next stop

951
01:00:08,559 --> 01:00:11,454
will be public comment at a Parks and

952
01:00:11,454 --> 01:00:16,015
Rec Commission meeting. One of the and so

953
01:00:16,015 --> 01:00:18,655
to be able to appear there with the

954
01:00:18,655 --> 01:00:20,575
same message we provided to you and to

955
01:00:20,575 --> 01:00:23,535
indicate support from both the Human Human Rights

956
01:00:23,535 --> 01:00:27,030
Commission and Board of Health would be powerful,

957
01:00:27,590 --> 01:00:30,230
I think. But that that is our anticipated

958
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:33,990
next stop, if that helps fill in some

959
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:38,710
of them. That's good. Yeah. I think that

960
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:42,905
that's appropriate. Absolutely, appropriate than perhaps us calling

961
01:00:42,905 --> 01:00:45,945
in or calling out parks and recs this

962
01:00:45,945 --> 01:00:48,585
point. Yeah, no, I wasn't suggesting that we

963
01:00:48,585 --> 01:00:53,530
do that. I just was trying to figure

964
01:00:53,530 --> 01:00:58,970
out how we do understand them, understand what

965
01:00:58,970 --> 01:01:06,145
is the perspective. Mhmm. Rachel? It might be

966
01:01:06,145 --> 01:01:07,825
useful to hear, and I'm sorry that I

967
01:01:07,825 --> 01:01:09,265
didn't mention this earlier, and I know that

968
01:01:09,265 --> 01:01:10,785
you're in the middle of a vote, that

969
01:01:10,785 --> 01:01:15,184
the outreach to the garden committee when black

970
01:01:15,184 --> 01:01:20,000
gardeners left the garden was significant. Several gardeners

971
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,600
wrote letters, several garden neighbors wrote letters. There

972
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:38,915
was Oh, we've lost you. We lost you

973
01:01:38,915 --> 01:01:41,795
for a minute, Rachel. Are you back? I'm

974
01:01:41,795 --> 01:01:44,435
back. I'm back. Can you did you hear

975
01:01:44,435 --> 01:01:46,035
the part that I said that after several

976
01:01:46,035 --> 01:01:48,130
black gardeners left the garden? So let me

977
01:01:48,130 --> 01:01:51,170
reiterate. After several black gardeners left the garden,

978
01:01:51,330 --> 01:01:55,330
there was tremendous outreach from gardeners and garden

979
01:01:55,330 --> 01:01:59,570
neighbors to the garden committee to to say

980
01:01:59,570 --> 01:02:01,730
this is a problem, and there was no

981
01:02:01,730 --> 01:02:06,265
response to any of those. So, Janet, your

982
01:02:06,825 --> 01:02:09,865
I share in your being confounded about the

983
01:02:09,865 --> 01:02:13,145
lack of responsiveness. The only thing that we

984
01:02:13,145 --> 01:02:14,985
have been told is that it's a capacity

985
01:02:14,985 --> 01:02:17,465
and timing issue. We haven't heard anything else.

986
01:02:18,579 --> 01:02:24,900
Dallas? Yeah. Thank you. To me, this feels

987
01:02:25,060 --> 01:02:26,579
you know, while it's important to know the

988
01:02:26,579 --> 01:02:29,940
context and important to know what you know,

989
01:02:29,940 --> 01:02:31,380
how Parks and Rec and others may have

990
01:02:31,380 --> 01:02:35,085
responded or not or the the garden committee,

991
01:02:35,405 --> 01:02:38,125
the proposal on the table around the equity

992
01:02:38,125 --> 01:02:41,005
and sustainable statement in advancing racial equity and

993
01:02:41,005 --> 01:02:43,965
enhancing the health of the natural environment. I

994
01:02:43,965 --> 01:02:46,445
mean, that seems like something that would be

995
01:02:46,445 --> 01:02:49,900
in line of what we voted before as

996
01:02:49,900 --> 01:02:52,540
a board in our philosophy in general. And

997
01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:56,140
so regardless of how others may have reacted

998
01:02:56,140 --> 01:02:58,860
to this, it seems like the proposal on

999
01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:02,234
the table is in line with what our

1000
01:03:02,234 --> 01:03:08,395
mission generally. Right? Thank you. Any other comments?

1001
01:03:08,395 --> 01:03:11,195
We do have a proposal on the table.

1002
01:03:12,714 --> 01:03:21,960
Any other discussion? Comments? Board members? Cynthia, do

1003
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,680
you want to restate your or is that

1004
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:29,480
too hard? I think you wanted to adopt

1005
01:03:30,845 --> 01:03:33,645
the proposal, which was two parts, adopt the

1006
01:03:33,645 --> 01:03:41,885
statement and support their interest in a dedicated

1007
01:03:41,885 --> 01:03:43,964
position on the garden committee, and we would

1008
01:03:43,964 --> 01:03:47,520
put that information in a letter. Was that

1009
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,359
your Well said for the motion. Thank you.

1010
01:03:52,400 --> 01:04:02,525
Point of clarification, letter to whom? I mean,

1011
01:04:02,525 --> 01:04:05,485
I'm just thinking here. I would recommend the

1012
01:04:05,485 --> 01:04:10,200
director of Parks and Recreation and also perhaps

1013
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,119
the mayor. I was going to say Parks

1014
01:04:14,119 --> 01:04:16,280
Recreation, the mayor and city council. I mean,

1015
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,599
this should be sort of. It's my understanding

1016
01:04:20,599 --> 01:04:22,839
that some city councilors are involved in this

1017
01:04:22,839 --> 01:04:25,960
initiative. Robin or Rachel, can you verify that

1018
01:04:26,275 --> 01:04:28,675
or have been made aware of this issue?

1019
01:04:28,755 --> 01:04:30,995
There are a number of city councilors who've

1020
01:04:30,995 --> 01:04:32,835
been made made aware of the issue whom

1021
01:04:32,835 --> 01:04:35,555
we've had informal conversations with. Those that I'm

1022
01:04:35,555 --> 01:04:38,750
aware of have all expressed strong support. I

1023
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:41,390
believe there are still a handful we may

1024
01:04:41,390 --> 01:04:44,670
not have yet had conversations with, but I

1025
01:04:44,670 --> 01:04:47,790
believe the majority is aware of this initiative.

1026
01:04:49,390 --> 01:04:54,425
All right. Any other questions or comments? You're

1027
01:04:54,425 --> 01:04:56,905
ready for a vote? I'm going go around

1028
01:04:56,905 --> 01:05:05,465
my screen. Suzanne? Yes. Cynthia? Yes. Janet? Yes.

1029
01:05:05,785 --> 01:05:10,960
Dallas? Yes. Joanne? Yes. Thank you very much.

1030
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,640
Thank you all for your hard work. We

1031
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,040
appreciate your coming, and we appreciate all that

1032
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,640
you have done. You've taken a lot of

1033
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,120
time and gathered a lot of people to

1034
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,895
do this work. So thank you. Thank you

1035
01:05:25,895 --> 01:05:29,735
so much. Will formalize that and get a

1036
01:05:29,735 --> 01:05:32,455
copy of that to you. Thank you so

1037
01:05:32,455 --> 01:05:34,055
much to all of you. We really appreciate

1038
01:05:34,055 --> 01:05:38,130
your time and engagement and support. Thank you.

1039
01:05:38,130 --> 01:05:43,730
Thank you so much. Thank you. All right.

1040
01:05:45,570 --> 01:05:48,370
I apologize to the other people on our

1041
01:05:48,370 --> 01:05:50,770
agenda for having to wait around, but we're

1042
01:05:50,770 --> 01:05:56,985
moving along. Amy, do you want to introduce

1043
01:05:56,985 --> 01:06:00,345
Kiko? Hi, Kiko. Welcome. If you'd like to

1044
01:06:00,345 --> 01:06:02,585
introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about

1045
01:06:02,585 --> 01:06:06,040
you and what you do at DHHS. Thanks,

1046
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,520
Amy, and hello, everyone. Thank you, Chair Levin

1047
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,440
and everyone for having me this evening. Can

1048
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,280
you hear me okay? Yes. Okay. So my

1049
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,600
name is Keiko Mallon, and I am the

1050
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,095
Prevention Team Director for the City of Northampton

1051
01:06:19,095 --> 01:06:21,015
Department of Health and Human Services, and I'm

1052
01:06:21,015 --> 01:06:23,815
grateful to Commissioner O'Leary for making some time

1053
01:06:23,815 --> 01:06:28,855
on the agenda for me today. I would

1054
01:06:28,855 --> 01:06:30,215
love to learn more about all of you

1055
01:06:30,215 --> 01:06:32,215
and what you do. I've met Dallas before,

1056
01:06:32,215 --> 01:06:34,840
but everyone else I don't know. But I

1057
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:36,119
guess my goal here is just to tell

1058
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:38,359
you a little bit about myself and what

1059
01:06:38,359 --> 01:06:41,560
I do at DHHS. I don't know how

1060
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,640
much background you all have about this work,

1061
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:44,599
so I'm just going to try to give

1062
01:06:44,599 --> 01:06:46,599
a high level overview. If there are questions,

1063
01:06:47,655 --> 01:06:50,215
please feel free to jump in. Just a

1064
01:06:50,215 --> 01:06:52,695
little bit about myself. I am a seasoned

1065
01:06:52,695 --> 01:06:54,695
public health professional. I've been doing public health

1066
01:06:54,695 --> 01:06:58,375
work for more than three decades. I'm a

1067
01:06:58,375 --> 01:07:00,535
Massachusetts native. I grew up in the Boston

1068
01:07:00,535 --> 01:07:02,490
area, but I moved out West in the

1069
01:07:02,490 --> 01:07:05,770
late 80s. First public health job was working

1070
01:07:05,770 --> 01:07:08,090
for a feminist women's health center in Portland,

1071
01:07:08,090 --> 01:07:10,490
Oregon. We were an abortion provider, so I

1072
01:07:10,490 --> 01:07:12,810
cut my public health teeth on public health

1073
01:07:12,810 --> 01:07:15,450
activism, women's health, and being on the front

1074
01:07:15,450 --> 01:07:17,610
lines of a very controversial line of work.

1075
01:07:18,805 --> 01:07:20,805
From there, did lots of other things, ended

1076
01:07:20,805 --> 01:07:23,365
up in California when I did my master's

1077
01:07:23,365 --> 01:07:25,685
in public health at UC Berkeley, and also

1078
01:07:25,685 --> 01:07:28,645
social work. I have a dual degree. I

1079
01:07:28,645 --> 01:07:30,645
came back to the East Coast actually after

1080
01:07:30,645 --> 01:07:32,245
that, and I was in Vermont for a

1081
01:07:32,245 --> 01:07:35,900
while running a startup nonprofit called Grounds for

1082
01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:37,819
Health, which is still in existence today that

1083
01:07:37,819 --> 01:07:40,059
was founded by Green Mountain Coffee Roasters and

1084
01:07:40,059 --> 01:07:42,220
a couple of other coffee companies in Vermont

1085
01:07:42,220 --> 01:07:45,020
to provide healthcare services to women in coffee

1086
01:07:45,020 --> 01:07:48,135
growing communities. So that was a wonderful I

1087
01:07:48,135 --> 01:07:50,775
really loved being back in New England. California

1088
01:07:50,775 --> 01:07:52,535
called me back. I went back for another

1089
01:07:52,535 --> 01:07:55,255
almost two decades and I'm now back in

1090
01:07:55,255 --> 01:07:58,455
Massachusetts because my mother is getting older and

1091
01:07:58,830 --> 01:08:00,510
felt the need to be closer by. So

1092
01:08:00,510 --> 01:08:02,590
I'm actually living in a big house with

1093
01:08:02,590 --> 01:08:06,510
my husband, my father-in-law, and my mother, which

1094
01:08:06,510 --> 01:08:09,950
has been interesting. In making this huge plan

1095
01:08:09,950 --> 01:08:11,870
to come to Western Mass, I was so

1096
01:08:11,870 --> 01:08:14,675
fortunate to meet Meredith and to be able

1097
01:08:14,675 --> 01:08:17,314
to find this job that I'm now loving

1098
01:08:17,314 --> 01:08:19,555
at the Department of Health and Human Services.

1099
01:08:19,555 --> 01:08:21,555
So my background really is in maternal child

1100
01:08:21,555 --> 01:08:22,835
health. Most of the work that I've done

1101
01:08:22,835 --> 01:08:25,314
is women's health, maternal child health. I'm learning

1102
01:08:25,314 --> 01:08:28,620
about substance misuse prevention, substance use prevention. That's

1103
01:08:28,620 --> 01:08:30,940
the work that our prevention team does. But

1104
01:08:30,940 --> 01:08:33,979
my knowledge of public health principles, my commitment

1105
01:08:33,979 --> 01:08:36,380
to racial equity this last conversation is very

1106
01:08:36,380 --> 01:08:37,660
much in line with so much of the

1107
01:08:37,660 --> 01:08:39,625
work that I've done in public health. My

1108
01:08:39,625 --> 01:08:41,705
last job was working for Alameda County Public

1109
01:08:41,705 --> 01:08:44,185
Health Department, which has a pretty good national

1110
01:08:44,185 --> 01:08:46,425
reputation for being on the cutting edge of

1111
01:08:46,425 --> 01:08:48,984
understanding that public health is social justice and

1112
01:08:48,984 --> 01:08:51,304
that racial justice is integral to ensuring the

1113
01:08:51,304 --> 01:08:54,550
health of all members of our community, that

1114
01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:56,390
no one is free when others are oppressed.

1115
01:08:56,390 --> 01:08:58,949
This is certainly an ideology that I embody

1116
01:08:58,949 --> 01:09:01,109
in all of my work. Getting to know

1117
01:09:01,109 --> 01:09:03,109
the demographics here in Western Mass, which are

1118
01:09:03,109 --> 01:09:05,750
very different from those of Oakland, California, I

1119
01:09:05,750 --> 01:09:08,034
think you can probably imagine. So that's been

1120
01:09:08,034 --> 01:09:09,395
a shift. A big part of my work

1121
01:09:09,395 --> 01:09:11,554
in the past has been looking at the

1122
01:09:11,554 --> 01:09:14,354
disparate rates of infant mortality, that Black babies

1123
01:09:14,354 --> 01:09:15,875
die at two to three times the rate

1124
01:09:15,875 --> 01:09:18,114
of White babies, Black mamas die at three

1125
01:09:18,114 --> 01:09:19,954
to four times the rates of White mamas,

1126
01:09:19,954 --> 01:09:21,474
and how this is something that is a

1127
01:09:21,474 --> 01:09:23,750
result of structural racism and can only be

1128
01:09:23,750 --> 01:09:27,430
addressed by dismantling structural racism. So, is the

1129
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:29,110
sort of the viewpoint that I bring into

1130
01:09:29,110 --> 01:09:31,350
my work. What I do at the Department

1131
01:09:31,350 --> 01:09:33,030
of Health and Human Services is I have

1132
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:35,670
five staff who report to me. One of

1133
01:09:35,670 --> 01:09:38,164
them is the Hampshire Hope Coalition Coordinator. So

1134
01:09:38,164 --> 01:09:40,404
Hampshire Hope is our coalition that was founded,

1135
01:09:40,404 --> 01:09:43,284
I believe, in 2015 to address the opioid

1136
01:09:43,284 --> 01:09:49,925
epidemic, a multidisciplinary, very diverse stakeholder organization that's

1137
01:09:49,925 --> 01:09:53,219
been doing incredible work engaging people in the

1138
01:09:53,219 --> 01:09:55,460
community to understand how we can work together

1139
01:09:55,460 --> 01:09:59,300
to reduce deaths from opioid overdoses. Out of

1140
01:09:59,300 --> 01:10:01,699
that program, so the Hampshire Hope coordinator is

1141
01:10:01,699 --> 01:10:04,020
a fairly new person named Taylor McAndrew, who's

1142
01:10:04,020 --> 01:10:05,985
been on the job for about six months.

1143
01:10:05,985 --> 01:10:08,145
She reports to me and is beginning to

1144
01:10:08,145 --> 01:10:10,545
think deeply with the coalition about the opioid

1145
01:10:10,545 --> 01:10:12,304
settlement funds and how those can be used

1146
01:10:12,304 --> 01:10:16,625
to address this ongoing issue in our community

1147
01:10:16,625 --> 01:10:19,080
and really the voices of people who use

1148
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,480
drugs and their families and understanding the best

1149
01:10:21,480 --> 01:10:24,840
way to spend that money, which was people

1150
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:26,520
who were hurt by what happened in the

1151
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,280
opioid industry are the ones who should be

1152
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:29,640
helping us to figure out how to spend

1153
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,005
those funds. So excited about that work that

1154
01:10:32,005 --> 01:10:34,804
she'll be thinking about. Out of Hampshire hope

1155
01:10:34,804 --> 01:10:36,965
came a program called the Drug Addiction Recovery

1156
01:10:36,965 --> 01:10:39,284
Team or DART, which is fairly well known

1157
01:10:39,284 --> 01:10:43,684
in Northampton. We've expanded from Northampton out into

1158
01:10:43,684 --> 01:10:46,140
many communities in Hampshire County, as well as

1159
01:10:46,140 --> 01:10:49,100
Hampden County and Berkshire County. The Drug Addiction

1160
01:10:49,100 --> 01:10:51,980
Recovery Team is a post opioid overdose outreach

1161
01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:54,620
effort. So we work with first responders, law

1162
01:10:54,620 --> 01:10:57,660
enforcement, EMS, fire. It varies from community to

1163
01:10:57,660 --> 01:11:00,054
community. The people who are responding to the

1164
01:11:00,054 --> 01:11:02,215
scene of an overdose and helping to get

1165
01:11:02,215 --> 01:11:05,094
that person the attention that he or she

1166
01:11:05,094 --> 01:11:07,655
or they might need. So really very client

1167
01:11:07,655 --> 01:11:11,175
centered, the referral is made into our system,

1168
01:11:11,175 --> 01:11:13,470
and then we connect person with a recovery

1169
01:11:13,470 --> 01:11:16,030
coach who can really understand what that person's

1170
01:11:16,030 --> 01:11:19,390
goals are. Harm reduction focused really just it's

1171
01:11:19,390 --> 01:11:21,950
about saving lives. It's not necessarily about getting

1172
01:11:21,950 --> 01:11:24,910
people to detox or mandating recovery. It's about

1173
01:11:24,910 --> 01:11:27,315
understanding what's going on with folks and connecting

1174
01:11:27,315 --> 01:11:28,995
them to those resources that they most need

1175
01:11:28,995 --> 01:11:31,395
to be the healthiest they can be. That

1176
01:11:31,395 --> 01:11:34,755
program is an amazing program that is going

1177
01:11:34,755 --> 01:11:36,755
through lots of changes now as we expand,

1178
01:11:36,755 --> 01:11:39,180
and we have also two new staff, our

1179
01:11:39,180 --> 01:11:41,180
two DART coordinators who report to me who

1180
01:11:41,180 --> 01:11:42,860
are doing this work and getting to know

1181
01:11:42,860 --> 01:11:45,340
them and getting to know our partners and

1182
01:11:45,340 --> 01:11:47,580
understanding how we can strengthen and further expand

1183
01:11:47,580 --> 01:11:49,500
the DART program has been really interesting for

1184
01:11:49,500 --> 01:11:51,020
me in these last six months that I've

1185
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:54,565
been on the job. We also have Kara

1186
01:11:54,565 --> 01:11:58,725
McLaughlin, who is the Northampton Prevention Coalition Coordinator.

1187
01:11:58,725 --> 01:12:02,245
So that's our primary prevention coalition. So substance

1188
01:12:02,245 --> 01:12:05,340
use prevention, she works mostly with youth in

1189
01:12:05,340 --> 01:12:07,900
the Northampton Public School System, primarily in the

1190
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:11,020
high school, but is also engaged with elementary

1191
01:12:11,340 --> 01:12:13,260
school staff and students, as well as the

1192
01:12:13,260 --> 01:12:16,540
middle school. And Kara is also somebody who

1193
01:12:16,540 --> 01:12:19,074
is really a champion for and racial equity

1194
01:12:19,074 --> 01:12:23,074
in our community and involving young people. So

1195
01:12:23,074 --> 01:12:25,474
again, nothing about us without us, really wanting

1196
01:12:25,474 --> 01:12:28,915
to have much more authentic youth engagement on

1197
01:12:28,915 --> 01:12:31,875
the coalition and to encourage everyone to think

1198
01:12:31,875 --> 01:12:36,710
about our privilege as white people. Many of

1199
01:12:36,710 --> 01:12:39,110
us in this work are white people. I'm

1200
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:40,630
used to working in an environment that's much

1201
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:42,710
more diverse. So I think we're all really

1202
01:12:42,710 --> 01:12:44,790
thinking about what that means and how we

1203
01:12:44,790 --> 01:12:46,865
can diversify our work workforce, and Cara is

1204
01:12:46,865 --> 01:12:49,905
certainly at the forefront of that conversation. And

1205
01:12:49,905 --> 01:12:52,625
then finally, I work also with Melissa Alouisi,

1206
01:12:52,625 --> 01:12:55,105
who is a brilliant technology manager who is

1207
01:12:55,105 --> 01:12:58,385
helping us to think about our database infrastructure

1208
01:12:58,385 --> 01:13:02,600
and a burgeoning health information exchange data repository

1209
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:04,680
that will be a place where we can

1210
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:09,160
sort of collect data sets of publicly available

1211
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:12,304
de identified data related to opioid overdose, but

1212
01:13:12,304 --> 01:13:14,304
also other public health concerns that the public

1213
01:13:14,304 --> 01:13:16,864
can access. We're working on building that. It's

1214
01:13:16,864 --> 01:13:18,945
a ways off, but she is the person

1215
01:13:18,945 --> 01:13:21,105
championing that and is really doing a wonderful

1216
01:13:21,105 --> 01:13:23,105
job. I didn't mention the names of the

1217
01:13:23,105 --> 01:13:25,824
two DART coordinators. They are Kathy Cotunio and

1218
01:13:25,824 --> 01:13:28,730
Kate Shapiro. So I think that's kind of

1219
01:13:28,730 --> 01:13:30,090
the high level of what I do. I

1220
01:13:30,090 --> 01:13:32,250
also have some responsibility for the Public Health

1221
01:13:32,250 --> 01:13:34,170
Excellence Grant, which I think some of you

1222
01:13:34,170 --> 01:13:36,650
may be familiar with, which is really about

1223
01:13:36,890 --> 01:13:40,245
regional infrastructure building for public health in the

1224
01:13:40,245 --> 01:13:43,925
Commonwealth Of Massachusetts and in Western Mass, where

1225
01:13:43,925 --> 01:13:46,245
we have fewer public health resources compared to

1226
01:13:46,245 --> 01:13:48,405
the Eastern part of the state. So really

1227
01:13:48,405 --> 01:13:50,245
thinking about how we can share our expertise

1228
01:13:50,245 --> 01:13:52,480
in the city of Northampton to help smaller

1229
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:54,400
boards of health be able to meet the

1230
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,080
public health needs in their communities. I do

1231
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,679
some administrative responsibilities related to that grant. I

1232
01:13:59,679 --> 01:14:02,320
know I'm a fast talker, something that East

1233
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:03,760
Coast people are a little bit more open

1234
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:05,760
to than West Coast people, but I hope

1235
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,564
I didn't overwhelm you with too much information.

1236
01:14:08,565 --> 01:14:10,885
That was fairly clear, and I'm happy to

1237
01:14:10,885 --> 01:14:13,764
take any questions. Thank you. That was very

1238
01:14:13,764 --> 01:14:18,244
clear and very comprehensive, and welcome. You. Board

1239
01:14:18,244 --> 01:14:21,780
members, any questions? Do we say your name

1240
01:14:21,780 --> 01:14:27,860
Kiko? It's Kiko. Yeah, Kiko Mallon. Questions? Comments?

1241
01:14:28,740 --> 01:14:31,460
Not a question. Just so happy you're here.

1242
01:14:31,460 --> 01:14:33,060
It's just going to be great to work

1243
01:14:33,060 --> 01:14:35,995
with you. Thank you so much. It's wonderful

1244
01:14:35,995 --> 01:14:37,595
to meet all of you and to listen

1245
01:14:37,595 --> 01:14:39,835
to this conversation today. Really appreciate all of

1246
01:14:39,835 --> 01:14:43,675
your thoughts about these issues. Thank you for

1247
01:14:43,675 --> 01:14:49,530
coming. Sure. Thanks, Kiko. Oh, I forgot one

1248
01:14:49,530 --> 01:14:50,810
thing. Could I if I just could have

1249
01:14:50,810 --> 01:14:52,970
one more minute, which is that February is

1250
01:14:52,970 --> 01:14:55,850
Black History Month. And I was chatting with

1251
01:14:55,850 --> 01:14:58,330
Meredith about what we might do as a

1252
01:14:58,890 --> 01:15:00,890
Department of Health and Human Services to recognize

1253
01:15:00,890 --> 01:15:03,534
that. I'm thinking about it's an opportunity to

1254
01:15:03,534 --> 01:15:06,175
obviously reinvigorate our commitment to racial justice, but

1255
01:15:06,175 --> 01:15:08,895
it's also really an opportunity to celebrate Black

1256
01:15:08,895 --> 01:15:12,655
excellence, Black joy. What is it that we

1257
01:15:12,655 --> 01:15:15,135
want to do? I don't know that we've

1258
01:15:15,135 --> 01:15:18,270
decided just yet. We're thinking about APHA and

1259
01:15:18,270 --> 01:15:22,910
other public health associations will obviously put out

1260
01:15:22,910 --> 01:15:25,630
language and messaging about Black History Month, and

1261
01:15:25,630 --> 01:15:28,350
we may do some posts on our Facebook

1262
01:15:28,350 --> 01:15:30,510
page. There was maybe some thought about a

1263
01:15:30,510 --> 01:15:33,445
proclamation or some kind of statement, So I

1264
01:15:33,445 --> 01:15:35,125
just wanted to raise that as something maybe

1265
01:15:35,125 --> 01:15:37,285
for you all to think about as we

1266
01:15:37,285 --> 01:15:42,085
also figure out what we're doing internally. If

1267
01:15:42,085 --> 01:15:45,445
anybody has any recommendations or thoughts about that,

1268
01:15:46,300 --> 01:15:48,540
we could send them to Kiko or Meredith.

1269
01:15:48,540 --> 01:15:50,620
And if you have a proposal for us,

1270
01:15:50,620 --> 01:15:53,340
why don't you bring that through Meredith, and

1271
01:15:53,340 --> 01:15:55,260
she can send it to us. How's that?

1272
01:15:55,660 --> 01:15:57,980
That sounds great. I'll do that. Thank you.

1273
01:15:57,980 --> 01:16:04,994
Great. Thank you so much. All right. Darrell,

1274
01:16:04,994 --> 01:16:09,394
thanks for staying with us. No problem. All

1275
01:16:09,394 --> 01:16:12,675
right. Next on our agenda is to review

1276
01:16:12,835 --> 01:16:24,390
the model, state tobacco regulation recommendations. And so

1277
01:16:24,390 --> 01:16:26,630
we got a lot of information and some

1278
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:32,465
confusing documents. So we have a document that's

1279
01:16:32,465 --> 01:16:35,905
called twenty twenty two model regs. And that

1280
01:16:35,905 --> 01:16:38,945
has some checkboxes on that front page. And

1281
01:16:38,945 --> 01:16:42,350
then we got one that was 2023. And

1282
01:16:42,350 --> 01:16:44,430
it's a little confusing because there was nothing

1283
01:16:44,430 --> 01:16:47,870
checked on the front of that one. But

1284
01:16:47,870 --> 01:16:51,550
I think I reviewed this with Meredith and

1285
01:16:51,550 --> 01:16:53,550
I think we're going to use the 2023

1286
01:16:53,550 --> 01:16:56,110
document. And what I did is I sort

1287
01:16:56,110 --> 01:16:59,005
of checked off the boxes on that front

1288
01:16:59,005 --> 01:17:00,685
page. So let me see if I can,

1289
01:17:01,405 --> 01:17:04,525
we can use that front page as sort

1290
01:17:04,525 --> 01:17:07,805
of a way to frame our discussion, of

1291
01:17:07,805 --> 01:17:10,205
take a topic, one topic at a time.

1292
01:17:10,365 --> 01:17:14,920
Cynthia? Yes. Joanne, can I just give a

1293
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,239
little background for our Yes, yes, sure? So

1294
01:17:19,719 --> 01:17:24,440
this is really making the sausage, Janet, and

1295
01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:26,765
Dallas. So What we have done up to

1296
01:17:26,765 --> 01:17:29,165
this point has been a little bit different.

1297
01:17:30,605 --> 01:17:33,565
To let you know, Cheryl Sabara has been

1298
01:17:33,565 --> 01:17:36,525
in the tobacco world work for many, many

1299
01:17:36,525 --> 01:17:43,390
years. Forty five. Oh, jeez. Okay. Hi, Janet.

1300
01:17:43,870 --> 01:17:46,270
I worked with her for the first ten

1301
01:17:46,270 --> 01:17:50,190
of them maybe. And the reason Cheryl's here

1302
01:17:50,190 --> 01:17:52,270
is because she has so much history. And

1303
01:17:52,270 --> 01:17:54,030
the reason we do what we do here

1304
01:17:54,030 --> 01:17:57,605
is that Meredith reminded me today we had

1305
01:17:57,605 --> 01:18:01,605
regs in 2012, '20 '14, '20 '15, '20

1306
01:18:01,605 --> 01:18:05,284
'18 and 2020. So about every two years

1307
01:18:06,325 --> 01:18:10,090
what happens is the tobacco companies get smart

1308
01:18:10,090 --> 01:18:12,970
and then people like Cheryl go to court

1309
01:18:13,130 --> 01:18:15,290
and find out if we could just tweak

1310
01:18:15,290 --> 01:18:17,370
our language a little bit we wouldn't have

1311
01:18:17,370 --> 01:18:19,770
lost so many cases. And so that's why

1312
01:18:19,770 --> 01:18:22,650
Cheryl is here. And so I think I'm

1313
01:18:22,650 --> 01:18:24,330
going to steal your word Cheryl, this is

1314
01:18:24,330 --> 01:18:27,725
a whack a mo game doing this kind

1315
01:18:27,725 --> 01:18:30,605
of policy. We do it on a regular

1316
01:18:30,605 --> 01:18:33,565
basis. It appears to be pretty tedious but

1317
01:18:33,565 --> 01:18:37,485
I think the way it's outlined tonight, what

1318
01:18:37,780 --> 01:18:40,420
our history in Northampton has been is that

1319
01:18:40,420 --> 01:18:44,980
we're a little bit more aggressive in our

1320
01:18:44,980 --> 01:18:47,780
tobacco regulations. Is that the right word Cheryl?

1321
01:18:48,180 --> 01:18:52,565
Yes, although the state law was much more

1322
01:18:52,565 --> 01:18:56,165
comprehensive than we ever anticipated it would be.

1323
01:18:56,325 --> 01:18:59,685
And when did state law get updated? That

1324
01:18:59,685 --> 01:19:01,525
was just this fall? It was passed by

1325
01:19:01,765 --> 01:19:04,245
It was signed by Governor Baker in November

1326
01:19:04,245 --> 01:19:08,270
of twenty nineteen. It went into effect immediately

1327
01:19:08,510 --> 01:19:12,110
as to the electronic nicotine delivery systems. The

1328
01:19:12,110 --> 01:19:15,150
combustible pieces went into effect in June of

1329
01:19:15,150 --> 01:19:18,270
twenty twenty. Oh, I thought it was more

1330
01:19:18,270 --> 01:19:21,864
recent than that. Well, COVID makes it seem

1331
01:19:21,864 --> 01:19:24,025
much more recent because there wasn't a lot

1332
01:19:24,025 --> 01:19:27,305
of activity, when the law actually went into

1333
01:19:27,305 --> 01:19:30,905
effect because no one was going into stores.

1334
01:19:30,905 --> 01:19:33,969
Yeah. So just to give you that history,

1335
01:19:33,970 --> 01:19:36,370
the state had a set of regulations but

1336
01:19:36,370 --> 01:19:39,330
we always had a stronger set in this

1337
01:19:39,330 --> 01:19:43,330
community because we really take serious the impact

1338
01:19:43,330 --> 01:19:46,534
of tobacco on children. So now the state

1339
01:19:46,534 --> 01:19:48,375
has kind of upped its game, but we

1340
01:19:48,375 --> 01:19:51,815
want to make sure that our regulations reflect

1341
01:19:52,054 --> 01:19:54,695
with this board how we want to approach

1342
01:19:54,695 --> 01:19:57,255
this particular issue. I just wanted to give

1343
01:19:57,255 --> 01:19:59,815
you that background. Suzanne has been here forever.

1344
01:20:00,260 --> 01:20:03,060
She knows how we tweak these things and

1345
01:20:04,900 --> 01:20:07,620
we have some opportunities tonight to do some

1346
01:20:07,620 --> 01:20:10,580
different things. Just wanted to provide you with

1347
01:20:10,580 --> 01:20:11,780
that because I know there were a lot

1348
01:20:11,780 --> 01:20:14,385
of documents going back and forth But I

1349
01:20:14,385 --> 01:20:16,224
think the latest latest one you got that

1350
01:20:16,224 --> 01:20:18,224
says yes and no and may not have

1351
01:20:18,224 --> 01:20:20,465
colors on it. I think, we could walk

1352
01:20:20,465 --> 01:20:23,184
through that. So thank you for that time.

1353
01:20:23,744 --> 01:20:26,784
Yeah. So Cheryl has been our guide and

1354
01:20:26,784 --> 01:20:30,730
we often and usually take her recommendations. I'm

1355
01:20:30,730 --> 01:20:33,370
going to share let's try my share my

1356
01:20:33,370 --> 01:20:44,645
screen again. So this is the 2023 sample

1357
01:20:44,645 --> 01:20:47,845
regulations. And what I did is I answered

1358
01:20:47,845 --> 01:20:51,365
these yesno questions. Meredith put it in this

1359
01:20:51,365 --> 01:20:55,045
format basically to say which things we already

1360
01:20:55,045 --> 01:20:57,880
have in our regulations and which things we

1361
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,240
need to discuss. So if it says yes,

1362
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:03,640
that means we've already approved it and it's

1363
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:07,320
in our current local regs. And if it's

1364
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,400
no, that it's something we need to address

1365
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,094
whether we want to include it or how

1366
01:21:11,094 --> 01:21:15,574
we want to include it. So Meredith suggested

1367
01:21:15,574 --> 01:21:17,735
that we go through this checklist. I thought

1368
01:21:17,735 --> 01:21:20,135
we'd do that first and then we can

1369
01:21:20,135 --> 01:21:22,775
go through the document. And I have colors

1370
01:21:22,775 --> 01:21:24,375
on my document. I don't know if you

1371
01:21:24,375 --> 01:21:27,010
do, but I have green and yellow, yellow

1372
01:21:27,010 --> 01:21:30,770
being the state regs and green being the

1373
01:21:31,010 --> 01:21:33,170
proposed local regs. But we can do that

1374
01:21:33,170 --> 01:21:37,010
in a minute. I'm sorry, Joanne. Meredith asked

1375
01:21:37,010 --> 01:21:39,105
me to remind everyone that we are not

1376
01:21:39,105 --> 01:21:42,224
voting on anything. We are just having a

1377
01:21:42,224 --> 01:21:46,224
discussion about a direction and then we'll get

1378
01:21:46,224 --> 01:21:49,985
a draft and then probably another draft. So

1379
01:21:49,985 --> 01:21:52,065
there's no votes tonight. That's the way I

1380
01:21:52,065 --> 01:21:55,590
understand it, right? Right. Yeah. So once we

1381
01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:57,430
sort of have this discussion and sort of

1382
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:59,590
have a proposal of what we would want

1383
01:21:59,590 --> 01:22:02,470
to include in our new regs, Meredith will

1384
01:22:02,470 --> 01:22:04,870
put it all together. And we'll have a

1385
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:08,585
draft document. And we can discuss that. And

1386
01:22:08,585 --> 01:22:10,345
we're not actually going to vote on it

1387
01:22:10,345 --> 01:22:12,905
until we have a hearing, a forum, a

1388
01:22:12,905 --> 01:22:16,185
public forum, so we can get input from

1389
01:22:16,185 --> 01:22:18,105
the public. And that would be the time

1390
01:22:18,105 --> 01:22:20,105
that we vote. But we would probably want

1391
01:22:20,105 --> 01:22:22,570
to come to a consensus on what we

1392
01:22:22,570 --> 01:22:25,290
are interested in including in our proposal that

1393
01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:28,889
goes that gets presented to the public. Does

1394
01:22:29,449 --> 01:22:33,290
that sound right, Cheryl? Yes. So let's go

1395
01:22:33,290 --> 01:22:37,545
through these. No permit renewal if there's an

1396
01:22:37,545 --> 01:22:41,065
outstanding fine. We already have that in our

1397
01:22:41,065 --> 01:22:44,504
regs. Unless someone has a problem with that,

1398
01:22:44,905 --> 01:22:46,344
I don't think we need to have any

1399
01:22:46,344 --> 01:22:48,264
further discussion. Just stop me if you have

1400
01:22:48,264 --> 01:22:51,970
a question. No permit renewal if three sales

1401
01:22:51,970 --> 01:22:54,930
to persons 21. I believe we already have

1402
01:22:54,930 --> 01:22:58,690
that in our regs. I need to I

1403
01:22:58,690 --> 01:23:03,570
don't think you do. But we can check

1404
01:23:03,570 --> 01:23:07,555
on that. Okay. Because that's a relatively new

1405
01:23:07,555 --> 01:23:11,555
strategy. Do you have any comments on We

1406
01:23:12,515 --> 01:23:16,115
had started going through this before. I can't

1407
01:23:16,115 --> 01:23:17,955
see the top of this. Is this still

1408
01:23:17,955 --> 01:23:20,929
say 2022 on it? This top of this

1409
01:23:20,929 --> 01:23:24,770
one is the 2023. It's slightly different. This

1410
01:23:24,770 --> 01:23:27,570
the last thing that got sent out? Yes.

1411
01:23:27,570 --> 01:23:30,530
Just went with the agenda, but there were

1412
01:23:30,530 --> 01:23:32,850
lots of documents. At least on my computer,

1413
01:23:33,365 --> 01:23:35,045
they end up all over the page and

1414
01:23:35,045 --> 01:23:37,845
I miss some of them. A little confusing,

1415
01:23:37,845 --> 01:23:41,765
but I do, I have, when we started

1416
01:23:41,765 --> 01:23:44,245
going over the same thing that said 2022

1417
01:23:44,245 --> 01:23:46,645
on the top. They really are the same.

1418
01:23:46,645 --> 01:23:50,230
It did say that we had discussed that

1419
01:23:50,230 --> 01:23:53,510
we did have that number two. That's what

1420
01:23:53,510 --> 01:23:57,270
Meredith has said. What I have for your

1421
01:23:57,270 --> 01:24:02,550
2022 says you don't. But I can just

1422
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:04,390
follow-up with that. That's no big deal. Okay.

1423
01:24:05,344 --> 01:24:07,344
Well, let's talk about it. How do people

1424
01:24:07,344 --> 01:24:09,425
feel about that? If there's three sales to

1425
01:24:09,425 --> 01:24:11,585
persons 21, which we think is sort of

1426
01:24:11,585 --> 01:24:19,740
a big no no, Do we not renew

1427
01:24:19,740 --> 01:24:24,460
their permit? Cheryl, the state regs are thirty

1428
01:24:24,460 --> 01:24:27,420
six months? The state regs are thirty six

1429
01:24:27,420 --> 01:24:30,620
months and what you would do before you

1430
01:24:30,620 --> 01:24:32,735
would not renew a permit, you would have

1431
01:24:32,735 --> 01:24:35,855
them in for a hearing determine whether or

1432
01:24:35,855 --> 01:24:42,655
But if our regs say that the, what

1433
01:24:42,655 --> 01:24:44,735
do you call it, tolling? Tolling period. The

1434
01:24:44,735 --> 01:24:47,135
tolling period. That's a question you're going to

1435
01:24:47,135 --> 01:24:50,630
have to decide. Right, because like in the

1436
01:24:50,630 --> 01:24:54,230
case we just discussed, if the three times

1437
01:24:54,230 --> 01:24:56,790
happened over a period of eight years, that's

1438
01:24:56,790 --> 01:24:59,990
a very different thing to consider than if

1439
01:24:59,990 --> 01:25:02,070
it happened over a period of thirty six

1440
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:05,784
months. That's one of the issues that you

1441
01:25:05,784 --> 01:25:08,505
need to think about. You want to keep,

1442
01:25:08,905 --> 01:25:13,625
well, we're jumping all over right now, there

1443
01:25:13,625 --> 01:25:18,749
are two potentials here. Number one, you could

1444
01:25:18,830 --> 01:25:22,429
go with the state penalty and tolling period

1445
01:25:22,670 --> 01:25:26,989
if you want for all of the sections

1446
01:25:26,989 --> 01:25:29,715
that are in the state law, And you

1447
01:25:29,715 --> 01:25:33,795
could continue doing what you do locally, which

1448
01:25:33,795 --> 01:25:37,395
is no tolling period for those that are

1449
01:25:37,395 --> 01:25:41,235
unique to Northampton. That's one approach. The other

1450
01:25:41,235 --> 01:25:44,150
approach would be to get rid of tolling

1451
01:25:44,150 --> 01:25:48,870
periods altogether and just go back to the

1452
01:25:48,870 --> 01:25:51,989
beginning of time and if, you know, there

1453
01:25:51,989 --> 01:25:57,030
are three violations in twenty years or whatever,

1454
01:25:58,705 --> 01:26:01,105
you know, you could do it that way.

1455
01:26:01,105 --> 01:26:03,745
It's really up to you how you want

1456
01:26:03,745 --> 01:26:06,304
to do that. Do you have any, do

1457
01:26:06,304 --> 01:26:10,304
you have a recommendation? Well, I mean, years

1458
01:26:10,304 --> 01:26:17,050
is a long time. I don't know. It

1459
01:26:17,050 --> 01:26:19,770
would really be up to you and your

1460
01:26:19,770 --> 01:26:22,810
staff. Do you have records that would go

1461
01:26:22,810 --> 01:26:25,210
back? I mean, how long do your records

1462
01:26:25,210 --> 01:26:30,175
go back? I don't know. You know, and

1463
01:26:30,175 --> 01:26:32,574
how long do they go back for each

1464
01:26:33,455 --> 01:26:37,455
retailer? Is it different? I don't know. So,

1465
01:26:38,770 --> 01:26:41,170
I've been asked this question once before and

1466
01:26:41,170 --> 01:26:43,330
now I think it's probably, it was probably

1467
01:26:43,330 --> 01:26:46,610
Lisa, my colleague from MMA, that asked it

1468
01:26:46,610 --> 01:26:50,290
because of you. We don't have any municipalities

1469
01:26:50,290 --> 01:26:53,805
that don't have any tolling period. In fact,

1470
01:26:53,805 --> 01:26:57,485
most municipalities had either twenty four or thirty

1471
01:26:57,485 --> 01:27:01,165
six months. Now they can, the twenty four

1472
01:27:01,165 --> 01:27:05,005
months are invalid because they're less strict than

1473
01:27:05,005 --> 01:27:07,870
the state. But again, you know, I it's

1474
01:27:07,870 --> 01:27:10,750
it's up to you. You don't have, you

1475
01:27:10,910 --> 01:27:13,550
could have, you know, forty eight month, you

1476
01:27:13,550 --> 01:27:14,990
could have a four year instead of a

1477
01:27:14,990 --> 01:27:19,870
three year. It's really your decision. It's it's

1478
01:27:19,870 --> 01:27:25,195
not frequent that we, well, we haven't seen

1479
01:27:25,435 --> 01:27:30,635
no tolling period at all. But except in

1480
01:27:30,635 --> 01:27:34,395
Northampton. I guess our goal was just not

1481
01:27:34,395 --> 01:27:40,150
to continue to permit recurrent offenders like what's

1482
01:27:40,150 --> 01:27:44,070
going to change? Well, that is why and

1483
01:27:44,070 --> 01:27:46,870
I checked your regulation does not have it.

1484
01:27:47,110 --> 01:27:50,070
Your current regulation does not have it. But

1485
01:27:50,305 --> 01:27:54,465
if someone sells three times within a three

1486
01:27:54,465 --> 01:27:58,145
year period, that's egregious and you may want

1487
01:27:58,145 --> 01:28:01,345
to revoke that permit, not suspend it, but

1488
01:28:01,345 --> 01:28:05,280
revoke it. There's another section in the new

1489
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,400
regulation that would say if there's any, if

1490
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:12,560
if the board thinks any violations, if if

1491
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:14,640
you have four or more violations and they're

1492
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,145
egregious, then you may want to revoke it.

1493
01:28:18,145 --> 01:28:21,265
I mean, it's, there are two different sections

1494
01:28:21,265 --> 01:28:26,545
that deal with revocations of permits. So it's,

1495
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:30,880
you may just want to reconsider it, whether

1496
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:35,200
you want to do no time limit at

1497
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,840
all, or you want to stay with what

1498
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:42,425
the state law says. I'm looking at the

1499
01:28:42,425 --> 01:28:45,065
proposed regulations here in the case of four

1500
01:28:45,065 --> 01:28:50,425
violations or repeated egregious violations of any section

1501
01:28:50,425 --> 01:28:53,625
of the regulation as determined by the Board

1502
01:28:53,625 --> 01:28:56,425
of Health and what we put in here

1503
01:28:56,490 --> 01:28:59,290
is within a thirty six month period, the

1504
01:28:59,290 --> 01:29:01,530
board shall hold a hearing, and after the

1505
01:29:01,530 --> 01:29:04,490
hearing, may permanently revoke the tobacco sales permit.

1506
01:29:04,890 --> 01:29:07,050
That's a pretty big stick if you're going

1507
01:29:07,050 --> 01:29:09,705
to permanently revoke it. What do you consider

1508
01:29:09,705 --> 01:29:11,625
egregious? Are there some things that are more

1509
01:29:11,625 --> 01:29:14,745
egregious than others? Well, yeah. I mean, I

1510
01:29:14,745 --> 01:29:17,705
think not having signs up is probably not

1511
01:29:17,705 --> 01:29:21,225
egregious. I think selling to someone under the

1512
01:29:21,225 --> 01:29:26,320
age of 21 once a year is pretty

1513
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:31,120
egregious. I think selling flavored tobacco products is

1514
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:34,720
pretty egregious and what we're seeing, what's happening

1515
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:38,435
now is that because the law is so

1516
01:29:38,435 --> 01:29:41,875
strict, the state law is so strict, those

1517
01:29:41,875 --> 01:29:44,915
stores that are tobacconists, you call them, we

1518
01:29:44,915 --> 01:29:47,955
call them adult only retail tobacco stores, those

1519
01:29:47,955 --> 01:29:51,820
stores now cannot sell flavored products. So the

1520
01:29:51,820 --> 01:29:57,100
only advantage they have over a regular convenience

1521
01:29:57,100 --> 01:29:59,660
store is that they can sell high test

1522
01:29:59,660 --> 01:30:02,955
liquid nicotine. That's it. They can't sell anything

1523
01:30:02,955 --> 01:30:05,995
else. So what we're seeing across the state

1524
01:30:06,155 --> 01:30:12,075
is we're seeing these stores, needing to either

1525
01:30:12,075 --> 01:30:15,675
change their business plan or they're selling illegal

1526
01:30:15,675 --> 01:30:19,510
product product because they can't survive as a

1527
01:30:19,510 --> 01:30:22,790
smoke shop that can only sell unless they're

1528
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:25,830
high end tobacconists that sell, you know, that

1529
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:29,990
have always sold, you know, high expensive cigars.

1530
01:30:30,435 --> 01:30:36,034
Otherwise, smaller tobacconists, their business plan is not,

1531
01:30:36,034 --> 01:30:38,994
has been basically wiped out by the new

1532
01:30:38,994 --> 01:30:42,675
state law. Cheryl, would we not have to

1533
01:30:42,675 --> 01:30:48,880
define egregious, which sounds like a complicated matter?

1534
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:52,160
Well, egregious is one of those words that

1535
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:56,720
I would not have used, but for violations

1536
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:01,515
or repeated violations. So if, you know, we

1537
01:31:01,515 --> 01:31:06,235
have some really unfortunately, we have some stores

1538
01:31:06,235 --> 01:31:10,715
that are selling out of the back windows.

1539
01:31:10,715 --> 01:31:15,460
They're hiding their flavored tobacco products in microwaves,

1540
01:31:16,180 --> 01:31:18,739
and taking them out when they know people

1541
01:31:18,739 --> 01:31:23,380
that are coming in. They're selling tobacco that

1542
01:31:23,380 --> 01:31:26,215
doesn't have any excise stamps on it or

1543
01:31:26,215 --> 01:31:29,655
that has out of state excise stamps on

1544
01:31:29,655 --> 01:31:35,015
them. The DOR is confiscating cases and cases

1545
01:31:35,015 --> 01:31:41,480
of menthol tobacco. So, think it's egregious is

1546
01:31:41,480 --> 01:31:45,960
really, it's hard when you see it, you

1547
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:49,079
know it. When they've been reported to the

1548
01:31:49,079 --> 01:31:52,965
Department of Revenue and, you know, you're getting

1549
01:31:52,965 --> 01:31:55,445
calls and complaints about them. You know, we

1550
01:31:55,445 --> 01:31:59,045
caught a furniture store selling flavored tobacco products

1551
01:31:59,045 --> 01:32:01,445
to the kids that knew to go to

1552
01:32:01,445 --> 01:32:05,320
that furniture store after school. So if it

1553
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:06,920
walks like a duck and talks like a

1554
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:10,520
duck, it's a duck and that's where the

1555
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:15,080
egregious piece comes in. So, I would go

1556
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:17,800
ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead, Suzanne. I was

1557
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:20,804
gonna say, if we're at the point of

1558
01:32:22,164 --> 01:32:30,324
contemplating withdrawal of a licensure, think there would

1559
01:32:30,324 --> 01:32:34,420
be substantial pushback if we had not defined

1560
01:32:34,420 --> 01:32:39,540
egregious. I hope we don't get there, but

1561
01:32:39,540 --> 01:32:43,780
that all leads me to the fact that

1562
01:32:43,780 --> 01:32:47,074
I think that we had, I go back

1563
01:32:47,074 --> 01:32:49,955
to a wise person, Cheryl Sabaro, who once

1564
01:32:49,955 --> 01:32:52,515
said earlier on this call, we're all about

1565
01:32:52,515 --> 01:32:59,955
compliance. Compliance, right. Not being punitive. And I

1566
01:32:59,955 --> 01:33:05,180
think that there's trying to get to compliance

1567
01:33:05,180 --> 01:33:08,140
and the other is confusing people who have

1568
01:33:08,140 --> 01:33:10,860
to follow these regulations. And I think when

1569
01:33:10,860 --> 01:33:15,715
we diverge from the state regs, especially updated

1570
01:33:15,715 --> 01:33:21,475
state regs, we cause confusion, which does not

1571
01:33:21,475 --> 01:33:26,995
help compliance. Correct. So by and large, unless

1572
01:33:26,995 --> 01:33:29,940
there's something that really jumps out at me

1573
01:33:29,940 --> 01:33:34,420
in this list, my perspective is to go

1574
01:33:34,420 --> 01:33:39,220
with the new regs. Well, I think it's

1575
01:33:39,220 --> 01:33:41,795
not really a question of going with the

1576
01:33:41,795 --> 01:33:43,715
new regs. We have to take the state

1577
01:33:43,715 --> 01:33:46,755
regs. No, I mean not going any stricter.

1578
01:33:47,235 --> 01:33:50,995
We've always gone stricter. Half of our statement

1579
01:33:50,995 --> 01:33:56,929
has been things other than And Cheryl's recommendation

1580
01:33:57,409 --> 01:34:00,130
have been items that have not been in

1581
01:34:00,130 --> 01:34:03,730
the state reg. So we've always done that.

1582
01:34:04,145 --> 01:34:05,985
Can I jump in for a second? I

1583
01:34:05,985 --> 01:34:09,505
know that, when we, do adapt regulations and

1584
01:34:09,505 --> 01:34:11,745
we go to the hearing and it passes

1585
01:34:11,745 --> 01:34:14,065
that the plan would be to have like

1586
01:34:14,065 --> 01:34:17,510
a really strong education plan to like get

1587
01:34:17,510 --> 01:34:21,190
them there because it is confusing for them.

1588
01:34:21,190 --> 01:34:23,510
They're still confused on no menthol so we

1589
01:34:23,510 --> 01:34:26,870
want to you know really do our best

1590
01:34:26,870 --> 01:34:28,870
to to get them there. And then I

1591
01:34:28,870 --> 01:34:31,495
know I'm jumping because Cheryl said we're still

1592
01:34:31,495 --> 01:34:33,974
up at like, I think number two. But

1593
01:34:33,975 --> 01:34:36,135
Cynthia, when we talked to Meredith today and

1594
01:34:36,135 --> 01:34:39,335
we talked about the first violation, the state

1595
01:34:39,335 --> 01:34:41,335
says one in seven, she was clear on

1596
01:34:41,335 --> 01:34:44,230
saying one and second violation, seven days and

1597
01:34:44,230 --> 01:34:47,350
third violation, thirty days. She wanted to say

1598
01:34:47,350 --> 01:34:54,230
fourth violation would be permit revocation. That whether

1599
01:34:54,230 --> 01:34:59,625
regardless of egregious, that would be her step

1600
01:34:59,625 --> 01:35:04,665
as far as, like, the the violations that

1601
01:35:04,665 --> 01:35:06,585
then will match up, I think, with the

1602
01:35:06,585 --> 01:35:10,489
fines. Well, and then you need to consider

1603
01:35:10,490 --> 01:35:13,050
if you don't have a tolling period, it's

1604
01:35:13,050 --> 01:35:16,650
four violations from the beginning of time. Yeah.

1605
01:35:16,650 --> 01:35:19,130
And I think that's what Suzanne was getting

1606
01:35:19,130 --> 01:35:22,250
at, was saying we're about compliance, not about

1607
01:35:22,250 --> 01:35:25,355
punishment. If someone hasn't had an offense for

1608
01:35:25,355 --> 01:35:29,995
ten years and then has one that's technically

1609
01:35:29,995 --> 01:35:33,115
a fourth offense, but they happened back in

1610
01:35:33,115 --> 01:35:38,280
the 30s, do you really, does that, is

1611
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:41,000
that, are you getting compliance there or are

1612
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,040
you punishing? Right, right. Well, I think we

1613
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:47,480
would start fresh from these new regs. So,

1614
01:35:47,480 --> 01:35:49,639
me just tell you what Conquer did a

1615
01:35:49,639 --> 01:35:52,795
couple of nights ago. They did something that

1616
01:35:52,795 --> 01:35:57,594
Suzanne has sort of suggested here. They have

1617
01:35:57,594 --> 01:36:00,715
asked me to draft a reg that just

1618
01:36:00,715 --> 01:36:04,909
incorporates the state law and that also has

1619
01:36:04,909 --> 01:36:09,790
whatever is currently in existence in your own

1620
01:36:09,790 --> 01:36:15,630
regulation, your own local strategies that are already

1621
01:36:15,630 --> 01:36:18,425
in this reg. And that's what they wanted

1622
01:36:18,425 --> 01:36:22,585
to do first. And they wanted to vote

1623
01:36:22,585 --> 01:36:25,784
on that. And then, you know, a little

1624
01:36:25,784 --> 01:36:28,585
bit, you know, further down the line, they

1625
01:36:28,585 --> 01:36:32,310
would consider looking at other issues. And one

1626
01:36:32,310 --> 01:36:34,630
of the reasons they wanted to do that

1627
01:36:34,949 --> 01:36:40,309
is because right now, every retailer in Northampton

1628
01:36:40,710 --> 01:36:43,270
has to comply with the state law, whether

1629
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:45,745
it's in your regulations or not. And Donna

1630
01:36:45,745 --> 01:36:51,265
can attest to that. The collaborative and Meredith,

1631
01:36:51,265 --> 01:36:53,825
there's been a lot of education, a lot

1632
01:36:53,825 --> 01:36:56,225
of outreach, a lot of visits about what

1633
01:36:56,225 --> 01:37:00,190
the state law says. Everyone's aware of what

1634
01:37:00,190 --> 01:37:02,590
the state law says or should be because

1635
01:37:02,590 --> 01:37:07,469
they've received written information, emails, and in person

1636
01:37:07,469 --> 01:37:11,675
visits. So if you did just adopt the

1637
01:37:11,675 --> 01:37:16,315
state, incorporate the state sections into what you

1638
01:37:16,315 --> 01:37:19,995
currently have, you could do that even without,

1639
01:37:19,995 --> 01:37:22,155
you could do it by voting, but you

1640
01:37:22,155 --> 01:37:23,915
wouldn't even need to hold a public hearing

1641
01:37:23,915 --> 01:37:28,449
because you're not changing anything. You're just incorporating

1642
01:37:28,449 --> 01:37:31,810
what is already the law and then ones

1643
01:37:31,810 --> 01:37:34,929
that have been the law since 2020. That's

1644
01:37:34,929 --> 01:37:43,005
one approach that's pretty simple. Although in your

1645
01:37:43,005 --> 01:37:44,765
case you would have to determine what you

1646
01:37:44,765 --> 01:37:48,445
want to do with that tolling period. So

1647
01:37:48,925 --> 01:37:52,365
I'm a little confused. Are you proposing that

1648
01:37:52,365 --> 01:37:55,110
we keep our local regs and sort of

1649
01:37:55,110 --> 01:37:56,870
mix in the state regs, which is what

1650
01:37:56,870 --> 01:37:59,030
we're I'm saying that's an easy way to

1651
01:37:59,030 --> 01:38:03,510
do it, but it doesn't incorporate some of

1652
01:38:03,510 --> 01:38:06,955
the new strategies that we have. But it

1653
01:38:06,955 --> 01:38:10,715
doesn't eliminate the strategies we've already put in

1654
01:38:10,715 --> 01:38:14,554
place. It does not eliminate them at all,

1655
01:38:14,795 --> 01:38:17,514
but it doesn't add some of the strategies,

1656
01:38:18,155 --> 01:38:20,795
like the density strategies that are out there

1657
01:38:20,795 --> 01:38:25,970
now. It doesn't incorporate them, you know, then

1658
01:38:25,970 --> 01:38:27,970
you can do it the traditional way and

1659
01:38:27,970 --> 01:38:30,290
just we'll look at all of this, we'll

1660
01:38:30,290 --> 01:38:32,370
have a few working sessions, we'll go through

1661
01:38:32,370 --> 01:38:36,370
it. There aren't that many new strategies that

1662
01:38:36,370 --> 01:38:39,614
are in here for you because you've adopted

1663
01:38:40,094 --> 01:38:43,855
a lot of these already. So it's up

1664
01:38:43,855 --> 01:38:46,014
to you how you want to do this.

1665
01:38:46,335 --> 01:38:48,494
And I know we're just on number two

1666
01:38:50,574 --> 01:38:55,310
now. Yeah. There's so much to discuss. It

1667
01:38:55,310 --> 01:38:58,510
seems to me that the tolling period's really

1668
01:38:58,510 --> 01:39:03,469
crucial. It is. In all of these in

1669
01:39:03,469 --> 01:39:06,875
all of It is. Mean, shouldn't we start

1670
01:39:06,875 --> 01:39:11,034
with that knowing and making a decision about

1671
01:39:11,034 --> 01:39:14,715
that? I that would be a prudent way

1672
01:39:14,715 --> 01:39:18,155
to approach it because that really colors everything.

1673
01:39:19,670 --> 01:39:23,590
Right. If I can just jump in for

1674
01:39:23,590 --> 01:39:25,190
one second, I want to reiterate something that

1675
01:39:25,190 --> 01:39:27,430
Cheryl just brought up, being a tobacco control

1676
01:39:27,430 --> 01:39:30,790
officer with the Pioneer Valley Tobacco Control, we

1677
01:39:31,190 --> 01:39:34,594
visit each and every store in Western Mass,

1678
01:39:34,915 --> 01:39:39,715
29 towns, actually 31 towns now, multiple times

1679
01:39:39,715 --> 01:39:43,315
throughout the year. Not only educating, we're visiting

1680
01:39:43,315 --> 01:39:45,870
and doing price checks for the state. We're

1681
01:39:45,870 --> 01:39:48,110
bringing youth in to try and purchase tobacco.

1682
01:39:48,110 --> 01:39:49,870
But the education part of it is the

1683
01:39:49,870 --> 01:39:51,870
biggest part we do. And we spend a

1684
01:39:51,870 --> 01:39:53,870
lot of time with the owners and the

1685
01:39:53,870 --> 01:39:56,989
clerks, any anybody who's working at the store,

1686
01:39:56,989 --> 01:40:01,555
answering questions, pointing out some of the items

1687
01:40:01,555 --> 01:40:04,435
that they're carrying that may be, something they

1688
01:40:04,435 --> 01:40:06,835
shouldn't have on their shelves, including still menthol

1689
01:40:06,835 --> 01:40:09,955
and flavored items as they've known, you know,

1690
01:40:09,955 --> 01:40:12,275
in three years now. So, we're repeating and

1691
01:40:12,275 --> 01:40:15,875
repeating and repeating and repeating, the same information

1692
01:40:16,010 --> 01:40:18,970
over and over. So, that egregious word comes

1693
01:40:18,970 --> 01:40:22,090
in because I think mainly because, you know,

1694
01:40:22,090 --> 01:40:25,050
you still get after all this education over

1695
01:40:25,050 --> 01:40:26,970
and over and over multiple times throughout the

1696
01:40:26,970 --> 01:40:28,730
year, they still say, oh, I didn't know.

1697
01:40:29,205 --> 01:40:32,085
So, it's hard to really, you know, say,

1698
01:40:32,085 --> 01:40:34,645
Oh, okay. So, how do we get that

1699
01:40:34,645 --> 01:40:39,445
point across? We really do spend a lot

1700
01:40:39,445 --> 01:40:40,645
of time with each and every one of

1701
01:40:40,645 --> 01:40:42,980
them. We give out our cards, we give

1702
01:40:42,980 --> 01:40:45,860
them our personal numbers, you know, we're constantly

1703
01:40:45,860 --> 01:40:49,700
bringing in, guidance, you know, handouts, you know,

1704
01:40:49,700 --> 01:40:52,580
answering any questions they might have, any anything

1705
01:40:52,580 --> 01:40:55,175
at any time. If they have even a,

1706
01:40:55,175 --> 01:40:57,094
you know, a vendor in the store saying,

1707
01:40:57,094 --> 01:40:58,454
You can buy these, go ahead. You know,

1708
01:40:58,454 --> 01:40:59,895
you can carry these. Don't worry about it.

1709
01:40:59,895 --> 01:41:02,375
It's not in your estate laws. They can

1710
01:41:02,375 --> 01:41:04,054
call us and say, Hey, before I purchase

1711
01:41:04,054 --> 01:41:05,574
this, what do you think about this? Are

1712
01:41:05,574 --> 01:41:07,494
they pulling the wool over our eyes? So,

1713
01:41:07,494 --> 01:41:09,730
I mean, we really are out there giving

1714
01:41:09,730 --> 01:41:12,849
them an abundance of education on where these

1715
01:41:12,849 --> 01:41:18,210
laws are and even their local laws. Thank

1716
01:41:18,210 --> 01:41:29,575
you. So, where to start? Well, I think

1717
01:41:29,575 --> 01:41:32,535
Janet is on to something, but I think

1718
01:41:32,535 --> 01:41:35,735
we can go through the checklist if you

1719
01:41:35,735 --> 01:41:39,840
want to share your screen again. I think

1720
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:44,639
we if we just concentrate on these strategies

1721
01:41:44,639 --> 01:41:46,880
and whether you have them or don't have

1722
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:50,239
them, I think that's a good idea. And

1723
01:41:50,239 --> 01:41:56,145
is that this is, is that how you

1724
01:41:56,145 --> 01:41:58,864
circle these? Because normally when we circle these,

1725
01:41:58,864 --> 01:42:00,465
we circle these as to this is what

1726
01:42:00,465 --> 01:42:03,825
I like to include in the regulation. This

1727
01:42:03,825 --> 01:42:08,650
is whether they're currently in our policy or

1728
01:42:08,650 --> 01:42:10,650
not. So I think number two is written

1729
01:42:10,650 --> 01:42:12,730
wrong, as you say, that you think that's

1730
01:42:12,730 --> 01:42:16,170
not currently in our policy. Number three is

1731
01:42:16,170 --> 01:42:19,594
wrong, and number three is wrong also. We

1732
01:42:19,594 --> 01:42:22,155
do have a cap, but I guess we

1733
01:42:22,155 --> 01:42:24,955
do a Yes. Yeah. We do, but the

1734
01:42:24,955 --> 01:42:27,275
question was whether we wanted to modify that.

1735
01:42:28,554 --> 01:42:30,715
Okay. Well, you have a simple cap and

1736
01:42:30,715 --> 01:42:36,280
you have the reducing cap. Okay. And I

1737
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:38,840
don't know you have a different license for

1738
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:42,679
a tobacconist than you do for a retail

1739
01:42:42,679 --> 01:42:52,385
tobacco store. We do. Yep. I don't know

1740
01:42:52,385 --> 01:42:54,864
what the difference is because I don't see

1741
01:42:55,185 --> 01:42:58,705
a difference in the capping, but we can

1742
01:42:58,705 --> 01:43:00,305
look at it. But you do. You have

1743
01:43:00,305 --> 01:43:03,870
a separate, you have a tobacconist establishment permit

1744
01:43:03,870 --> 01:43:08,910
holder and a regular permit holder. Oh, it's

1745
01:43:08,910 --> 01:43:11,790
not clear whether that includes both? The cap

1746
01:43:11,790 --> 01:43:18,455
includes both? No, the tobacco establishment is your

1747
01:43:18,455 --> 01:43:23,574
definition of tobacconist, which is a store that

1748
01:43:23,574 --> 01:43:28,650
doesn't allow anyone in who's 21. So you

1749
01:43:28,650 --> 01:43:30,489
have two different permits and then you have

1750
01:43:30,489 --> 01:43:33,370
a permit holder. So you have a tobacconist

1751
01:43:33,370 --> 01:43:37,370
permit holder and a permit holder. I'm not

1752
01:43:37,370 --> 01:43:42,005
sure why you have two. Well, think the

1753
01:43:42,005 --> 01:43:44,885
tobacconists used to be able to sell flavors.

1754
01:43:44,885 --> 01:43:46,965
Is that right? Yes, they did use to

1755
01:43:46,965 --> 01:43:50,165
be able to sell flavors. Right. So maybe

1756
01:43:50,165 --> 01:43:53,045
that's why you, but so did the, well,

1757
01:43:53,570 --> 01:43:55,970
so did the convenience stores, but I, that's

1758
01:43:55,970 --> 01:43:58,130
all right. Well, we can work on, I

1759
01:43:58,130 --> 01:43:59,970
don't know that you need two separate permits

1760
01:43:59,970 --> 01:44:04,290
is what I'm Unless you want to cap

1761
01:44:04,290 --> 01:44:08,115
the number of tobacconists in the town versus

1762
01:44:08,115 --> 01:44:11,075
the number of permit holders. Sounds like the

1763
01:44:11,075 --> 01:44:14,594
new regulations cap Make it so strict. Yeah.

1764
01:44:16,595 --> 01:44:19,955
There's no advantage to being a tobacconist anymore

1765
01:44:20,119 --> 01:44:24,199
Unless you're a high end cigar shop and

1766
01:44:24,199 --> 01:44:28,119
then you've always been that. I think Meredith

1767
01:44:28,119 --> 01:44:30,599
wanted to look at what was our cap

1768
01:44:30,679 --> 01:44:32,840
and then if we were under our cap,

1769
01:44:33,079 --> 01:44:36,755
could we reduce it to where we were

1770
01:44:36,755 --> 01:44:39,075
now? So say our cap is 20 and

1771
01:44:39,075 --> 01:44:41,475
we only have 16 permits out there, let's

1772
01:44:41,475 --> 01:44:43,715
reduce it to 16 and then we could

1773
01:44:43,875 --> 01:44:45,555
always keep going if that's what we wanted

1774
01:44:45,555 --> 01:44:47,870
to do, or we could stay there. I

1775
01:44:47,870 --> 01:44:49,790
I Yeah. What we norm what the normal

1776
01:44:49,790 --> 01:44:52,350
language is is that you set a cap

1777
01:44:52,510 --> 01:44:54,510
and then the way you do it, also

1778
01:44:54,510 --> 01:44:57,230
have the advanced cap so you would retire

1779
01:44:57,230 --> 01:45:01,230
permits that were not that were returned because

1780
01:45:01,230 --> 01:45:04,215
the person doesn't sell tobacco anymore or they

1781
01:45:04,215 --> 01:45:07,335
close the business and don't sell it to

1782
01:45:07,335 --> 01:45:09,735
someone else who wants a convenience store. And

1783
01:45:09,735 --> 01:45:12,215
then you put language in there that says

1784
01:45:12,215 --> 01:45:16,215
and the number of permits shall be reduced

1785
01:45:17,140 --> 01:45:19,060
based on the number of permits that have

1786
01:45:19,060 --> 01:45:21,700
been turned in. Right now your reg says

1787
01:45:21,700 --> 01:45:30,605
29. Right. I remember discussion about the difficulty

1788
01:45:30,605 --> 01:45:35,645
in reducing the cap upon a sale of

1789
01:45:35,645 --> 01:45:39,965
a business. We've cleaned that up. Okay. In

1790
01:45:39,965 --> 01:45:44,780
the new language, it's much more clear. This

1791
01:45:44,940 --> 01:45:48,300
is why I advocate starting from the position

1792
01:45:48,300 --> 01:45:50,620
of the new state regs. Yeah, but the

1793
01:45:50,620 --> 01:45:53,660
new state regs, of course, doesn't, don't address

1794
01:45:53,660 --> 01:45:57,695
capping in the new state regs. So we've

1795
01:45:57,695 --> 01:46:00,974
cleaned up, the TA providers have cleaned up

1796
01:46:00,974 --> 01:46:04,175
the language on the capping section that I

1797
01:46:04,175 --> 01:46:05,935
think will make you very happy because it

1798
01:46:05,935 --> 01:46:09,660
it it's much cleaner. And you clearly, I

1799
01:46:09,660 --> 01:46:13,180
don't think you have 29 anymore, right? Yeah,

1800
01:46:13,180 --> 01:46:15,260
I don't think so. Yeah, so you would

1801
01:46:15,260 --> 01:46:18,620
start with whatever the current number is. At

1802
01:46:18,940 --> 01:46:20,460
one of the meetings I was at, and

1803
01:46:20,460 --> 01:46:23,205
I've only been to a few, I think

1804
01:46:23,205 --> 01:46:25,605
Meredith must have said that we have 24

1805
01:46:25,605 --> 01:46:30,325
currently. Okay, that would make sense. So we

1806
01:46:30,325 --> 01:46:32,805
could start there and then decrease them as

1807
01:46:32,805 --> 01:46:35,780
they get returned. It seems as though we

1808
01:46:35,780 --> 01:46:38,420
have decreased that cap every single time we

1809
01:46:38,420 --> 01:46:41,139
have revisited these regs. Yeah. Which is great

1810
01:46:41,139 --> 01:46:45,940
news. Which is great. That's a success. Absolutely.

1811
01:46:46,735 --> 01:46:49,535
So if a business is sold, they can

1812
01:46:49,535 --> 01:46:53,935
still transfer that license? The business, and this

1813
01:46:53,935 --> 01:46:57,935
is a political decision, if the business is

1814
01:46:57,935 --> 01:47:01,780
sold, let's say one convenience store is selling

1815
01:47:01,780 --> 01:47:05,540
their entire business to a new owner. Okay.

1816
01:47:06,260 --> 01:47:08,900
The new owner has the ability to capture

1817
01:47:08,900 --> 01:47:12,420
that permit because when you're selling your business,

1818
01:47:12,420 --> 01:47:14,500
you're selling your business with all the permits

1819
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:20,045
that you have. So, Newburyport tried years ago

1820
01:47:20,205 --> 01:47:22,765
to change that and say once the business

1821
01:47:22,765 --> 01:47:25,645
was sold, the permit gets retired and caught

1822
01:47:25,645 --> 01:47:27,645
so much heat for it because the person

1823
01:47:27,645 --> 01:47:31,910
who was selling their business had certain permits

1824
01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:35,110
that allowed that business to operate. If they

1825
01:47:35,110 --> 01:47:37,910
got rid of the tobacco sales permit, then

1826
01:47:37,910 --> 01:47:40,950
that business wasn't as valuable as it was

1827
01:47:41,030 --> 01:47:43,705
when it had the tobacco sales permit. So,

1828
01:47:43,705 --> 01:47:45,785
as much as we might want to say

1829
01:47:45,785 --> 01:47:49,385
we can't convert to a new owner, it

1830
01:47:49,385 --> 01:47:52,665
just doesn't work politically. As long as it's

1831
01:47:52,665 --> 01:47:55,510
a bonafide purchaser for value. You don't want

1832
01:47:55,510 --> 01:47:57,510
sham sale. You want to make sure it's

1833
01:47:57,510 --> 01:48:00,070
a real person who's coming in and buying

1834
01:48:00,070 --> 01:48:02,070
it and someone's not just transferring it to

1835
01:48:02,070 --> 01:48:05,350
their spouse or their child or something along

1836
01:48:05,350 --> 01:48:07,990
those lines. I think our regs say that

1837
01:48:07,990 --> 01:48:09,510
they can do that, but they have to

1838
01:48:09,510 --> 01:48:12,935
reapply. Yes. We just clean the language up

1839
01:48:12,935 --> 01:48:16,935
so that it's much easier to make sense

1840
01:48:16,935 --> 01:48:21,575
of. So can I do we want to

1841
01:48:21,575 --> 01:48:24,375
agree on that about reducing to whatever our

1842
01:48:24,375 --> 01:48:32,260
current number is? Any comments on that? That's

1843
01:48:32,260 --> 01:48:34,260
been our history and it's worked well for

1844
01:48:34,260 --> 01:48:37,860
us. Yeah. Anybody else? You can't reduce it

1845
01:48:37,860 --> 01:48:40,179
lower than what you currently have because then

1846
01:48:40,179 --> 01:48:42,285
somebody has to turn in their permit for

1847
01:48:43,325 --> 01:48:45,405
Yeah, I think actually one year we did

1848
01:48:45,405 --> 01:48:48,285
the number we had plus one or something

1849
01:48:48,285 --> 01:48:53,965
like that. Yeah, yeah, probably. Any other comments

1850
01:48:53,965 --> 01:49:01,080
about that? Recommendation about no new permits within

1851
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:03,400
500 feet of a school. We don't have

1852
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:08,200
that. No, we don't. Permits within existing within

1853
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:11,000
certain number of feet of an existing permitee.

1854
01:49:11,665 --> 01:49:16,784
So those are density strategies. Meredith thought we

1855
01:49:16,784 --> 01:49:21,824
should hold off on those because looking at

1856
01:49:21,824 --> 01:49:27,750
environmental justice considerations. Yep. It's a thought and

1857
01:49:27,750 --> 01:49:33,670
what you usually will find and DPH can

1858
01:49:33,750 --> 01:49:36,150
run this for you is when you look

1859
01:49:36,150 --> 01:49:39,565
at where your sales permits are and you

1860
01:49:39,565 --> 01:49:42,764
map it out, you'll see that they're normally

1861
01:49:42,764 --> 01:49:48,844
clustered in EJ districts. That's where you see

1862
01:49:48,844 --> 01:49:53,900
the most permits, which is why there's the

1863
01:49:53,900 --> 01:49:56,860
no new permit within x number of feet

1864
01:49:56,860 --> 01:49:58,780
from an existing one to try to get

1865
01:49:58,780 --> 01:50:02,860
to those clusters. But I get that. If

1866
01:50:02,860 --> 01:50:05,994
you wanna wait on those two, then wait

1867
01:50:05,994 --> 01:50:09,275
on those two. Cheryl, am I understanding that

1868
01:50:09,275 --> 01:50:11,994
the four and five are not in the

1869
01:50:11,994 --> 01:50:16,474
new state regs? Yes, those are local. Are

1870
01:50:16,474 --> 01:50:18,715
local. Those are local strategies. All the capping

1871
01:50:18,715 --> 01:50:23,600
strategies are local. Okay. So the things that

1872
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:26,239
we do currently have is the ban of

1873
01:50:26,239 --> 01:50:28,960
smoking bars. It's not in this regulation. It's

1874
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:30,880
in our indirect It's in your secondhand smoke

1875
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:36,304
regulation. Minimum cigar packaging You have that. Pricing.

1876
01:50:37,105 --> 01:50:39,425
Banning blunt wraps, we have that. You have

1877
01:50:39,425 --> 01:50:43,105
that. Banning free distribution, we have that. You

1878
01:50:43,105 --> 01:50:46,909
have the coupons. You have the self-service. You

1879
01:50:47,710 --> 01:50:50,270
don't have an exemption for tobacconists, but I

1880
01:50:50,270 --> 01:50:52,989
don't think you I don't know. I mean,

1881
01:50:52,989 --> 01:50:56,270
the reason we added that exemption language is

1882
01:50:56,270 --> 01:51:00,244
just because now that youth can't get into

1883
01:51:00,244 --> 01:51:03,764
those stores, is there a rationale anymore for

1884
01:51:03,764 --> 01:51:09,844
banning self-service displays? That's a decision you can

1885
01:51:09,844 --> 01:51:12,450
make. And with some of these that you

1886
01:51:12,450 --> 01:51:15,570
already have, we do have some better language,

1887
01:51:16,850 --> 01:51:21,090
but it's the same regulation. So that's what's

1888
01:51:21,090 --> 01:51:23,490
highlighted in green in the rest of this

1889
01:51:23,490 --> 01:51:25,890
document is sort of Yeah, the green are

1890
01:51:25,890 --> 01:51:32,215
the local strategies, know, statewide the local strategies.

1891
01:51:32,535 --> 01:51:35,095
Yellow are the ones that are in the

1892
01:51:35,095 --> 01:51:43,240
state law. So number 12. We have educational

1893
01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:49,560
institutions. Right. Then the finding structure. That's the

1894
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:51,960
big one. It's a big one and the

1895
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:55,965
tolling period. Thirteen and fourteen. We want to

1896
01:51:55,965 --> 01:52:00,205
align our finding structure to be the same

1897
01:52:00,205 --> 01:52:05,805
as the state and basically I think Meredith's

1898
01:52:05,805 --> 01:52:08,205
proposal is you take the state regs and

1899
01:52:08,205 --> 01:52:10,845
our local regs and make them one document

1900
01:52:11,220 --> 01:52:14,980
so that local stores have one document to

1901
01:52:14,980 --> 01:52:18,180
look at. It's all in one place and

1902
01:52:18,180 --> 01:52:20,900
our finding structure would be at the end

1903
01:52:20,900 --> 01:52:23,380
and it's the same as the state structure.

1904
01:52:24,045 --> 01:52:26,525
So it's not so confusing. Like, you know,

1905
01:52:26,525 --> 01:52:28,925
we were all confused with this last hearing

1906
01:52:28,925 --> 01:52:30,605
because is it a state reg or a

1907
01:52:30,605 --> 01:52:33,324
local reg and all that stuff. So I

1908
01:52:33,324 --> 01:52:36,605
think that's the proposals we do what the

1909
01:52:36,605 --> 01:52:40,450
state does. Does that sound right, Cheryl? Yeah,

1910
01:52:40,450 --> 01:52:43,250
that's what what many people are doing. Some

1911
01:52:43,650 --> 01:52:47,490
municipalities like Medford, for instance, their Board of

1912
01:52:47,490 --> 01:52:53,330
Health did not want to find someone a

1913
01:52:53,330 --> 01:52:57,945
thousand dollars for a local penal for a

1914
01:52:57,945 --> 01:53:01,465
local violation because they were concerned that these

1915
01:53:01,465 --> 01:53:04,425
fines are so high and most of their

1916
01:53:04,425 --> 01:53:08,389
stores are mom and pop stores. So they

1917
01:53:08,389 --> 01:53:11,030
wanted to separate them out because their board

1918
01:53:11,030 --> 01:53:15,190
was very concerned about the high level of

1919
01:53:15,190 --> 01:53:20,710
fines. The other option the rationale behind unifying

1920
01:53:20,710 --> 01:53:23,695
them is that it's really hard for a

1921
01:53:23,695 --> 01:53:30,494
collaborative that has 31 different municipalities to know

1922
01:53:30,575 --> 01:53:35,775
which are the local strategies versus the state

1923
01:53:35,775 --> 01:53:40,179
strategies if they're working with an old regulation.

1924
01:53:40,500 --> 01:53:45,219
Our new regulation, we have a program that

1925
01:53:45,219 --> 01:53:47,620
we divide them out so that it's very

1926
01:53:47,620 --> 01:53:52,885
clear for your tobacco inspectors to see which

1927
01:53:52,885 --> 01:53:56,085
are state and which are local. So those

1928
01:53:56,085 --> 01:53:58,485
are the pros and cons of both of

1929
01:53:58,485 --> 01:54:03,364
them. So the fining structure is not in

1930
01:54:03,364 --> 01:54:06,340
the new state regs? Yes, it is. Oh,

1931
01:54:06,340 --> 01:54:09,940
it is. It is. The fining structure for

1932
01:54:09,940 --> 01:54:14,420
the violations of the state law are 1,000,

1933
01:54:14,500 --> 01:54:20,094
two thousand, five thousand. You determine the days

1934
01:54:20,335 --> 01:54:24,255
of suspension, but it's 1,000, 2 thousand, 5

1935
01:54:24,255 --> 01:54:27,775
thousand. So that's for selling to someone 21,

1936
01:54:28,094 --> 01:54:32,250
not having the signage, selling flavored tobacco products,

1937
01:54:32,250 --> 01:54:36,330
not having the manufacturer's letters, it's it's it's

1938
01:54:36,330 --> 01:54:40,490
for almost any everything. Ban on free distribution,

1939
01:54:40,490 --> 01:54:43,370
self-service out of package, those are all state

1940
01:54:43,370 --> 01:54:47,975
laws. Selling without a permit, having a high

1941
01:54:47,975 --> 01:54:52,775
nicotine contact in electronic delivery systems, most of

1942
01:54:52,775 --> 01:54:57,094
the stuff is pursuant to the state law.

1943
01:54:57,094 --> 01:54:59,895
The ones that wouldn't be are the sale

1944
01:54:59,895 --> 01:55:04,730
of blunt wraps, ban on smoking bars, that

1945
01:55:04,730 --> 01:55:08,970
those are local, the regulation of cigars, having

1946
01:55:08,970 --> 01:55:13,610
tobacco sales in healthcare institutions and educational institutions,

1947
01:55:14,975 --> 01:55:18,815
a requirement of displaying the mass DOR licenses,

1948
01:55:19,615 --> 01:55:25,935
you know, violating the density minimums, those would

1949
01:55:25,935 --> 01:55:28,700
be local. So the vast majority are state

1950
01:55:28,700 --> 01:55:31,020
and then there are like a dozen or

1951
01:55:31,020 --> 01:55:34,940
so local penalties. It would seem to me

1952
01:55:35,420 --> 01:55:40,539
having two different fining structures would be extraordinarily

1953
01:55:40,940 --> 01:55:44,865
confusing to us going forward and to the

1954
01:55:44,865 --> 01:55:48,625
people with these licenses. Yeah, I yeah, that's

1955
01:55:48,625 --> 01:55:54,865
what most people think. Are most municipalities keeping

1956
01:55:54,865 --> 01:55:57,025
these documents separate or are they merging them

1957
01:55:57,025 --> 01:56:03,000
into one? They're merging them. Janet? I guess

1958
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:06,200
I'm unclear about the idea of the two

1959
01:56:06,200 --> 01:56:08,680
in terms of the fines with what you

1960
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:10,840
just said about, I think you said Medford.

1961
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:15,845
Because doesn't Medford, like all of us have

1962
01:56:15,845 --> 01:56:19,925
to, I mean, might feel that it's too

1963
01:56:19,925 --> 01:56:22,645
high a fine, but they still have to

1964
01:56:22,645 --> 01:56:24,885
fine. Oh yeah, they have to fine at

1965
01:56:24,885 --> 01:56:28,320
the 1,000, 2 thousand 5 thousand, except for

1966
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:31,119
the ones that I just talked about. Instance,

1967
01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:34,639
they have a cigar packaging regulation that's not

1968
01:56:34,639 --> 01:56:37,360
in the state law. So if you violate

1969
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:40,515
the cigar packaging regulation, you can get a

1970
01:56:40,515 --> 01:56:42,755
$100 fine because it's not part of the

1971
01:56:42,755 --> 01:56:45,875
state law. Okay. But so did they keep

1972
01:56:45,875 --> 01:56:48,195
it as two separate documents or not? No,

1973
01:56:48,195 --> 01:56:50,355
they put it in one document. Right. And

1974
01:56:50,355 --> 01:56:52,595
then I can't share my screen right now,

1975
01:56:53,050 --> 01:56:55,850
but then we have a list of which

1976
01:56:55,850 --> 01:56:59,050
policies are subject to the state law fines

1977
01:56:59,130 --> 01:57:01,690
and which are subject to the local regulation

1978
01:57:01,690 --> 01:57:04,090
fines. So even though they thought that a

1979
01:57:04,090 --> 01:57:07,885
thousand is too much. They can't do anything

1980
01:57:07,885 --> 01:57:09,885
about that. I just wanted to be clear

1981
01:57:09,885 --> 01:57:12,285
about that. Yeah, except if it's just a

1982
01:57:12,285 --> 01:57:15,325
local strategy, not a state one. And we

1983
01:57:15,325 --> 01:57:17,405
put them in one document. You still are

1984
01:57:17,405 --> 01:57:19,725
just gonna have one document. You're just gonna

1985
01:57:19,725 --> 01:57:22,980
have two columns with which fines are state

1986
01:57:22,980 --> 01:57:24,980
fines and which fines are just local. And

1987
01:57:24,980 --> 01:57:28,659
is your organization willing to actually put that

1988
01:57:28,659 --> 01:57:31,940
document together? We've already done it. I mean,

1989
01:57:31,940 --> 01:57:38,475
for us. Meredith sent you over a sample

1990
01:57:38,475 --> 01:57:41,195
template. Oh, yeah. Just scroll down and you'll

1991
01:57:41,195 --> 01:57:43,675
see it. It all the way up to

1992
01:57:43,675 --> 01:57:47,755
13. Yeah. So this combines so that what's

1993
01:57:47,755 --> 01:57:51,580
in green is Key local. And what's yellow

1994
01:57:51,580 --> 01:57:53,900
is mandatory is from the state. So But

1995
01:57:53,900 --> 01:57:56,140
keep going. Go. Go. Go. Go. All the

1996
01:57:56,140 --> 01:57:58,780
way down to 13, and you'll see how

1997
01:57:58,780 --> 01:58:03,275
it's set up, Janet. The fines? Yes. I

1998
01:58:03,275 --> 01:58:04,955
mean, it just So here you go, next

1999
01:58:04,955 --> 01:58:07,195
page. So here's what we did. Again, we

2000
01:58:07,195 --> 01:58:10,155
should have only one document. This is one

2001
01:58:10,155 --> 01:58:12,875
document. But here it is. If you go

2002
01:58:12,875 --> 01:58:16,080
with not unifying the fines, then you have

2003
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:19,840
a list that we created this list. Obviously,

2004
01:58:19,840 --> 01:58:22,639
that's all the state fines, which is the

2005
01:58:22,639 --> 01:58:25,840
same for everyone. And then the local policies

2006
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:28,400
are going to be unique to Northampton, whatever

2007
01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:31,645
Northampton has, which isn't hard for us to

2008
01:58:32,285 --> 01:58:35,485
take out. Right, so as long we decide

2009
01:58:37,325 --> 01:58:39,565
that we wanna stick with all of what

2010
01:58:39,565 --> 01:58:42,045
the state says and not go Then we

2011
01:58:42,045 --> 01:58:45,770
take out both of these columns. Right. The

2012
01:58:45,770 --> 01:58:49,050
columns are there for those folks like Medford

2013
01:58:49,050 --> 01:58:54,730
who want separate finding structures. So now I'm

2014
01:58:54,730 --> 01:58:56,650
confused, Ian, because I thought what you're saying

2015
01:58:56,650 --> 01:58:59,405
is we wouldn't have, we'd have the same

2016
01:58:59,405 --> 01:59:01,965
finding structure for all the things that are

2017
01:59:01,965 --> 01:59:05,485
under state reg. Yes. But then for additional

2018
01:59:05,485 --> 01:59:07,885
things, we have to have our own finding

2019
01:59:07,885 --> 01:59:09,805
structure because you don't have a finding structure

2020
01:59:09,805 --> 01:59:11,565
for things that aren't in the state regs.

2021
01:59:11,790 --> 01:59:14,190
No, I'm making it more confusing than it

2022
01:59:14,190 --> 01:59:18,669
needs to be. You can have these fines

2023
01:59:18,829 --> 01:59:21,230
have to be 1,000, 2 thousand, 3 thousand

2024
01:59:21,230 --> 01:59:24,429
for those that are state. Those that are

2025
01:59:24,429 --> 01:59:28,215
in your local regulation, you can either choose

2026
01:59:28,215 --> 01:59:31,255
to make all the fines the same as

2027
01:59:31,255 --> 01:59:34,935
the state's or you have the legal authority

2028
01:59:35,175 --> 01:59:40,489
to make your own violations 100, two hundred,

2029
01:59:40,489 --> 01:59:42,489
three hundred or whatever. You can do whatever

2030
01:59:42,489 --> 01:59:45,850
you want with ones that with violations that

2031
01:59:45,850 --> 01:59:50,730
are not state violations. Right. Is that clear?

2032
01:59:51,065 --> 01:59:53,945
Yeah. Okay. And then we put it all

2033
01:59:53,945 --> 01:59:55,784
on one document. You put it up like

2034
01:59:55,784 --> 01:59:57,784
this. You put it all on one document.

2035
01:59:59,705 --> 02:00:02,264
Then you will have, if you see, you

2036
02:00:02,264 --> 02:00:04,905
know, we say for the violations of all

2037
02:00:04,905 --> 02:00:10,070
sections specific to Northampton, the fines are one,

2038
02:00:10,070 --> 02:00:13,990
two, and three, or whatever it is. And

2039
02:00:13,990 --> 02:00:15,830
then there's a section that says for those

2040
02:00:15,830 --> 02:00:18,630
that are state violations, the fines are this.

2041
02:00:18,630 --> 02:00:19,750
And the state one is going to be

2042
02:00:19,750 --> 02:00:21,784
above that, I think. I think it'll be

2043
02:00:21,784 --> 02:00:24,824
on page 11 or something. Yes. And we

2044
02:00:24,824 --> 02:00:28,104
specify here, if you go back down, I'm

2045
02:00:28,985 --> 02:00:31,545
sorry. If you go back down under the

2046
02:00:31,545 --> 02:00:35,570
penalty section, you'll see violations. And then we

2047
02:00:35,570 --> 02:00:39,250
have option one, which is to have state

2048
02:00:39,250 --> 02:00:43,010
local distinctions between the fines. And then we

2049
02:00:43,010 --> 02:00:47,650
have an option two, which is to have

2050
02:00:47,650 --> 02:01:01,105
unified fines. Option two. Unified fines. And you

2051
02:01:01,105 --> 02:01:03,540
don't need to make this decision tonight. You

2052
02:01:03,540 --> 02:01:05,940
know, I can draft a regulation for you

2053
02:01:06,020 --> 02:01:08,100
that has both of these options and you

2054
02:01:08,100 --> 02:01:11,220
can decide, you know, when you're good and

2055
02:01:11,220 --> 02:01:18,405
ready, what you what you wanna do. You

2056
02:01:18,405 --> 02:01:22,005
want me to go home, I'm sure. Or

2057
02:01:22,005 --> 02:01:25,765
just leave the meeting. So do you have

2058
02:01:25,765 --> 02:01:29,285
a recommendation? So you said Medford is having

2059
02:01:29,285 --> 02:01:32,965
their own? Well, I think it's much easier

2060
02:01:33,660 --> 02:01:37,500
to just have a unified finding structure, especially

2061
02:01:37,500 --> 02:01:39,980
since the vast majority of the regulations are

2062
02:01:39,980 --> 02:01:43,740
going to be state violations anyway. But it's

2063
02:01:43,740 --> 02:01:46,300
also, you know, you're increasing a fine from

2064
02:01:46,300 --> 02:01:51,255
$100 for not selling cigars in the right

2065
02:01:51,255 --> 02:01:55,095
packaging to a thousand. So, you know, it's

2066
02:01:55,095 --> 02:01:59,175
unfortunately or fortunately for me, it's a decision

2067
02:01:59,415 --> 02:02:03,110
that you need to make. Can I ask

2068
02:02:03,110 --> 02:02:05,430
Donna a question about that Donna as far

2069
02:02:05,430 --> 02:02:07,909
as like writing up that order to correct

2070
02:02:07,990 --> 02:02:12,470
cease and desist stopping selling flavored tobacco and

2071
02:02:12,470 --> 02:02:15,350
then defining both the state fines at a

2072
02:02:15,350 --> 02:02:19,795
different price and then the local fines at

2073
02:02:19,795 --> 02:02:22,514
their currently lower price? Does that make it

2074
02:02:22,514 --> 02:02:26,114
more difficult or does it make sense? No,

2075
02:02:26,114 --> 02:02:27,635
no, makes it more difficult as long as

2076
02:02:27,635 --> 02:02:30,489
it's clear in the regulation on what the

2077
02:02:30,489 --> 02:02:33,369
fine structure is and what falls under those.

2078
02:02:33,770 --> 02:02:37,530
It's pretty clear. Okay. That's why we did

2079
02:02:37,530 --> 02:02:39,929
the columns so that an inspector would have

2080
02:02:39,929 --> 02:02:42,889
the regulation and could see which is which.

2081
02:02:44,965 --> 02:02:46,805
Where it gets tough is when you have

2082
02:02:46,805 --> 02:02:50,405
different, communities, different municipalities that are doing different

2083
02:02:50,405 --> 02:02:53,045
things. Just got to familiarize yourself with what

2084
02:02:53,045 --> 02:02:54,965
they're doing, and take a look at that.

2085
02:02:54,965 --> 02:02:56,965
Which is challenging. Yeah, it is. That's where

2086
02:02:56,965 --> 02:03:02,770
it gets confusing. And the suspension periods we

2087
02:03:02,770 --> 02:03:07,650
decide? Yeah, the state requires that they be

2088
02:03:07,650 --> 02:03:11,010
not less than or not, yeah, for a

2089
02:03:11,010 --> 02:03:15,114
second offense, it's not less than one or

2090
02:03:15,114 --> 02:03:18,474
more than seven unless a municipality wants them

2091
02:03:18,474 --> 02:03:22,155
to be higher. So they give a lot

2092
02:03:22,155 --> 02:03:25,594
of leeway on, except for that first sale

2093
02:03:25,594 --> 02:03:28,480
to someone under 20 one. So yeah, you

2094
02:03:28,480 --> 02:03:31,840
can set them. I think Meredith talked about

2095
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:34,880
where first violation says one to seven. She

2096
02:03:34,880 --> 02:03:37,520
was just thinking one and then second violation

2097
02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:40,560
seven. I think that makes perfect sense. And

2098
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:43,905
the third thirty. Third thirty. And then fourth,

2099
02:03:43,905 --> 02:03:46,625
she really was talking about bringing them in

2100
02:03:46,625 --> 02:03:48,225
to see whether they want to revoke the

2101
02:03:48,225 --> 02:03:53,185
permit. And we have municipalities that have revoked

2102
02:03:53,185 --> 02:03:57,850
permits, which has never happened before. We have

2103
02:03:57,850 --> 02:04:00,330
this non no tolling period, but I've been

2104
02:04:00,330 --> 02:04:02,409
on this board. I don't know how many

2105
02:04:02,409 --> 02:04:05,290
years it is now. Fourteen, fifteen years. We've

2106
02:04:05,290 --> 02:04:11,744
never revoked one. But we could have today.

2107
02:04:11,744 --> 02:04:14,304
We could have in the hearing. Yeah. Based

2108
02:04:14,304 --> 02:04:20,160
on So, I mean, it just shows how

2109
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:26,480
having a lack of a tolling period means

2110
02:04:26,480 --> 02:04:31,120
you could be giving different judgments to different

2111
02:04:31,120 --> 02:04:35,815
establishments based on number of years or how

2112
02:04:35,815 --> 02:04:39,574
closely they're clustered or whatever, which is a

2113
02:04:39,655 --> 02:04:44,695
judgment call. It's cleaner if we just use

2114
02:04:44,695 --> 02:04:55,560
a unified finding structure does anyone have any

2115
02:04:55,560 --> 02:04:57,800
thoughts about the tolling period because our current

2116
02:04:57,800 --> 02:05:00,040
regs say no tolling period but it is

2117
02:05:00,040 --> 02:05:08,735
pretty harsh Any other thoughts on that? Has

2118
02:05:08,735 --> 02:05:10,335
it ever gotten in the way of anything

2119
02:05:10,335 --> 02:05:17,489
that we tried to do? I would have

2120
02:05:17,489 --> 02:05:21,730
to I think the way to I'm wondering,

2121
02:05:21,730 --> 02:05:23,489
and I don't know the answer to this,

2122
02:05:23,489 --> 02:05:28,050
but I'm wondering if Northampton is actually looked

2123
02:05:28,050 --> 02:05:31,585
at when someone violates the law, if they

2124
02:05:31,585 --> 02:05:34,945
actually look at the previous offenses. I don't

2125
02:05:34,945 --> 02:05:36,705
know. And I don't know if Donna would

2126
02:05:36,705 --> 02:05:39,585
know, because I don't think she's You've been

2127
02:05:39,585 --> 02:05:41,585
doing this for a few years, right? Yeah,

2128
02:05:41,585 --> 02:05:44,760
I've been doing the control of the CCO

2129
02:05:44,760 --> 02:05:47,320
for about five years, but not at Northampton.

2130
02:05:47,880 --> 02:05:51,400
Yeah, so going back, I don't remember Meredith

2131
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:57,080
ever mentioning to me a revocation because someone

2132
02:05:57,080 --> 02:06:00,485
had three offenses that went back. No, no.

2133
02:06:00,485 --> 02:06:02,965
I don't recall that either. I haven't I've

2134
02:06:02,965 --> 02:06:04,965
looked back at some of the violations that

2135
02:06:04,965 --> 02:06:06,804
have happened in the city and I've never

2136
02:06:06,804 --> 02:06:09,685
seen where that's ever happened. Yeah. So I

2137
02:06:09,685 --> 02:06:12,005
don't know whether you've been She has looked

2138
02:06:12,005 --> 02:06:15,050
back like in this case, we did hear

2139
02:06:15,050 --> 02:06:17,369
that there were two violations in the I

2140
02:06:17,530 --> 02:06:20,170
don't know how far back they go. And

2141
02:06:20,170 --> 02:06:22,010
I think moving forward, if we did it,

2142
02:06:22,010 --> 02:06:24,329
we would start fresh. Everyone would have to

2143
02:06:24,329 --> 02:06:28,085
start fresh because it's all new. But I

2144
02:06:28,085 --> 02:06:30,165
guess that brings up the question is having

2145
02:06:30,165 --> 02:06:35,285
no tolling period, is that fair? Well, you're

2146
02:06:35,285 --> 02:06:37,125
also, I think, gonna have to look at

2147
02:06:37,125 --> 02:06:41,750
what the violation actually is because selling to

2148
02:06:41,750 --> 02:06:46,309
someone 21 is a relatively new law. So

2149
02:06:46,309 --> 02:06:48,789
are you gonna go you probably could go

2150
02:06:48,789 --> 02:06:51,989
back to someone 18 with not too much

2151
02:06:52,725 --> 02:06:58,405
resistance, but selling flavored tobacco products, you did

2152
02:06:58,405 --> 02:07:02,405
it in 2020. So there wasn't that law

2153
02:07:02,405 --> 02:07:08,280
in effect fifty years ago. So would you

2154
02:07:08,280 --> 02:07:09,960
know, I don't know how I mean, you'd

2155
02:07:09,960 --> 02:07:12,119
have to look at what the violation is.

2156
02:07:13,079 --> 02:07:15,960
Then years and years ago, the violation was

2157
02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:19,000
just selling to someone 18. There weren't all

2158
02:07:19,000 --> 02:07:21,614
of these other do you have a permit?

2159
02:07:21,614 --> 02:07:24,014
Do you sell flavor? Do you sell e

2160
02:07:24,014 --> 02:07:28,414
cigarettes? They didn't exist. So the tolling period,

2161
02:07:28,415 --> 02:07:33,215
someone could argue that, wait a minute, isn't

2162
02:07:33,454 --> 02:07:40,040
a second violation because never because it's a

2163
02:07:40,040 --> 02:07:43,640
new law. I mean, could be argued. I

2164
02:07:43,640 --> 02:07:47,000
mean, defend against that by saying, look, but

2165
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:50,655
you've had violations for tobacco sales before. But

2166
02:07:50,655 --> 02:07:53,295
I don't. And so, the other thing I

2167
02:07:53,295 --> 02:07:55,534
can mention too, is that we also get

2168
02:07:55,534 --> 02:07:59,614
notices from state, who do their own, and

2169
02:07:59,614 --> 02:08:01,215
also FDA who go in and do their

2170
02:08:01,215 --> 02:08:03,135
own. So, they will let us know that

2171
02:08:03,135 --> 02:08:05,219
they've had a sale. So, it may not

2172
02:08:05,219 --> 02:08:07,059
be us locally doing it and it may

2173
02:08:07,059 --> 02:08:10,019
not be the coalition doing it, but, we're

2174
02:08:10,019 --> 02:08:13,539
getting notices that it's happening elsewhere also. Are

2175
02:08:13,539 --> 02:08:15,539
sales happening. And as far as the tolling

2176
02:08:15,539 --> 02:08:16,820
period, when, you know, I do a lot

2177
02:08:16,820 --> 02:08:18,579
of hearings in a lot of different towns

2178
02:08:18,905 --> 02:08:21,305
and when the, where the tolling period kind

2179
02:08:21,305 --> 02:08:23,465
of comes into play is when, you know,

2180
02:08:23,465 --> 02:08:25,225
they have repeat offenders and they're trying to

2181
02:08:25,225 --> 02:08:26,905
go back to see when the last sale

2182
02:08:26,905 --> 02:08:28,905
was. And when they have that tolling period

2183
02:08:28,905 --> 02:08:30,985
in place, it never fails. They just missed

2184
02:08:30,985 --> 02:08:32,905
it by a day or a week. And

2185
02:08:32,905 --> 02:08:35,199
they're like, well, we got to throw that

2186
02:08:35,199 --> 02:08:38,239
one out because we just passed that thirty

2187
02:08:38,239 --> 02:08:42,239
six month mark. What about the fact that

2188
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:44,560
I think with this last one that we

2189
02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:48,000
had, there was more than one violation. So

2190
02:08:48,000 --> 02:08:51,165
are those count, is it I mean, you

2191
02:08:51,165 --> 02:08:54,365
went in, Donna, at one time, but there

2192
02:08:54,365 --> 02:08:57,725
were many violations. So municipalities do that. They

2193
02:08:57,725 --> 02:08:59,405
compile. So if you go in and you

2194
02:08:59,405 --> 02:09:01,885
find multiple violations, they can say, here's number

2195
02:09:01,885 --> 02:09:04,045
one, here's number two, here's number three, boom,

2196
02:09:04,045 --> 02:09:06,750
you're already at that Right, so then you

2197
02:09:06,750 --> 02:09:11,230
get to keep that. Most municipalities don't stack

2198
02:09:11,230 --> 02:09:14,430
them unless it's a really bad actor, but

2199
02:09:14,430 --> 02:09:16,750
that's certainly up to you whether you want

2200
02:09:16,750 --> 02:09:23,685
to stack them or not. It sounds harsh

2201
02:09:23,685 --> 02:09:26,085
what we're doing but it also gives us

2202
02:09:26,645 --> 02:09:30,805
a history right? I mean as opposed to

2203
02:09:30,805 --> 02:09:32,965
the clock stopped and now we have a

2204
02:09:32,965 --> 02:09:36,670
clean slate is I don't know it's a

2205
02:09:36,670 --> 02:09:39,630
little bothersome to me. Well you could also

2206
02:09:39,630 --> 02:09:43,310
increase the tolling period if you want to

2207
02:09:43,310 --> 02:09:47,310
five years or to ten years. I'm just

2208
02:09:47,310 --> 02:09:51,255
concerned with no tolling period at all. Okay.

2209
02:09:51,975 --> 02:09:54,775
But you could certainly you could be stricter

2210
02:09:54,775 --> 02:09:56,695
than the state law and have a much

2211
02:09:56,695 --> 02:10:04,230
longer tolling period if you want. Our local

2212
02:10:04,230 --> 02:10:06,550
regs as they are now, is it may

2213
02:10:07,430 --> 02:10:10,230
suspend and not shall? It shall. No, it

2214
02:10:10,230 --> 02:10:12,390
shall. It is shall. Okay. Because I was

2215
02:10:12,390 --> 02:10:14,310
wondering why maybe that's why we didn't have

2216
02:10:14,310 --> 02:10:16,710
suspensions because we could make that discretion. But

2217
02:10:16,710 --> 02:10:23,225
if it was shall, then So we gave

2218
02:10:23,225 --> 02:10:26,665
an exemption to our own regs earlier this

2219
02:10:26,665 --> 02:10:33,900
evening. Well, because the regs, the violation was

2220
02:10:33,900 --> 02:10:35,659
on the state regs and the state regs

2221
02:10:35,659 --> 02:10:39,820
were new. Right. That was Meredith's recommendation. Yeah,

2222
02:10:39,820 --> 02:10:42,219
that make, that's what everyone has been doing.

2223
02:10:42,219 --> 02:10:50,865
Okay. Shell and may could be very important

2224
02:10:51,905 --> 02:10:56,225
if we don't have a tolling period and

2225
02:10:56,225 --> 02:10:59,989
we purposely closed shell because we didn't want

2226
02:10:59,989 --> 02:11:04,150
to have the wiggle room to be swayed

2227
02:11:04,150 --> 02:11:08,870
by one factor or another. We wanted to

2228
02:11:08,870 --> 02:11:12,264
be make sure we were fair to everyone.

2229
02:11:14,824 --> 02:11:25,660
That's why you have Shell. So I think

2230
02:11:25,660 --> 02:11:28,060
the two issues that are still outstanding are

2231
02:11:28,060 --> 02:11:31,100
the tolling period and whether we're going to

2232
02:11:31,100 --> 02:11:33,340
keep the state fines for everything or have

2233
02:11:33,340 --> 02:11:38,380
our own fines. Yep. And you've already you've

2234
02:11:38,380 --> 02:11:40,795
got the cap. We know we want to

2235
02:11:40,795 --> 02:11:43,755
reduce the core number and then we want

2236
02:11:43,755 --> 02:11:46,715
to clean up the language. We're going to

2237
02:11:46,715 --> 02:11:50,074
hold off on the buffer zone around schools

2238
02:11:50,074 --> 02:11:54,610
and around new retailers. I don't know whether

2239
02:11:54,610 --> 02:11:57,969
you want to increase the the price amount

2240
02:11:57,969 --> 02:12:01,250
for the minimum cigar packaging. Oh, that was

2241
02:12:01,250 --> 02:12:03,969
a yeah. Yeah. We tied it to the

2242
02:12:03,969 --> 02:12:09,135
consumer price index and it went up. Cheryl,

2243
02:12:10,175 --> 02:12:18,495
if we specify a price, do we need

2244
02:12:18,495 --> 02:12:20,974
to redo the regs every time we change

2245
02:12:21,375 --> 02:12:26,950
that price? You would need to amend the

2246
02:12:26,950 --> 02:12:33,110
reg because it's now a stricter Well, it's

2247
02:12:33,110 --> 02:12:35,465
tied to the consumer price index. Okay, well

2248
02:12:35,465 --> 02:12:36,824
that So you wouldn't need to because it

2249
02:12:36,824 --> 02:12:38,425
says right in it, it's tied to the

2250
02:12:38,425 --> 02:12:41,145
consumer price index. So no, you wouldn't need

2251
02:12:41,145 --> 02:12:42,905
to do that. You would just send a

2252
02:12:42,905 --> 02:12:45,545
notice to all the retailers saying due to

2253
02:12:45,545 --> 02:12:49,429
the CPI, the prices are now this because

2254
02:12:49,510 --> 02:12:51,350
they know it's tied to the consumer price

2255
02:12:51,350 --> 02:12:56,310
index. That's the adjustment that I was looking

2256
02:12:56,310 --> 02:12:58,949
for. Yeah. Or else we have to have

2257
02:12:58,949 --> 02:13:03,355
a new hearing? No, you don't have to

2258
02:13:03,355 --> 02:13:06,315
do that. Even though it's stricture, but you

2259
02:13:06,315 --> 02:13:07,675
would want to send a letter out to

2260
02:13:07,675 --> 02:13:12,395
them. Sure. All right, I think it's reasonable

2261
02:13:12,395 --> 02:13:22,570
to include that. So tolling period, fining, suspensions,

2262
02:13:24,250 --> 02:13:36,445
and revoking where we're stuck. And it's just

2263
02:13:36,445 --> 02:13:39,085
a draft, right? You might want to talk

2264
02:13:39,085 --> 02:13:45,165
more to Meredith about that and see what

2265
02:13:45,165 --> 02:13:52,860
she thinks. Amy? Because I'm just not certain.

2266
02:13:54,380 --> 02:13:56,700
And again, she would know and Donna would

2267
02:13:56,700 --> 02:13:58,700
know much better than I am, whether you've

2268
02:13:58,700 --> 02:14:00,700
run into cases where you've had to go

2269
02:14:00,700 --> 02:14:04,165
back like twenty years and see what the

2270
02:14:04,165 --> 02:14:07,285
violations have been. I just don't do you

2271
02:14:07,285 --> 02:14:11,365
know Donna whether you've. Yeah, we haven't had

2272
02:14:11,365 --> 02:14:12,805
to go back twenty years, but I don't

2273
02:14:12,805 --> 02:14:14,805
think we would be able to find that

2274
02:14:14,805 --> 02:14:20,150
much history. That's what I'm thinking. You're sort

2275
02:14:20,150 --> 02:14:22,550
of saying even logistically it doesn't make sense.

2276
02:14:23,110 --> 02:14:25,349
Logistically you should have some kind of cap

2277
02:14:25,349 --> 02:14:29,030
on it. Every time someone has come to

2278
02:14:29,030 --> 02:14:32,724
us I just know no matter who the

2279
02:14:32,724 --> 02:14:37,125
inspector was there always was a history. It

2280
02:14:37,125 --> 02:14:40,724
seems like we had the history I don't

2281
02:14:40,724 --> 02:14:43,045
know if the filing system has changed or

2282
02:14:43,045 --> 02:14:46,460
whatever. Well, you would have had the history

2283
02:14:46,460 --> 02:14:50,140
for, let's see, how many Dennis Lacourse did

2284
02:14:50,140 --> 02:14:54,540
some of your inspections, right? Would be records

2285
02:14:54,540 --> 02:15:00,175
of that. Before Dennis, I don't know. Well,

2286
02:15:00,175 --> 02:15:04,015
let's put it, tobacco control, the regulation started

2287
02:15:04,015 --> 02:15:08,575
in about 1994. So I think that's when

2288
02:15:10,175 --> 02:15:13,500
the history probably, the history wouldn't go back

2289
02:15:13,500 --> 02:15:16,540
before that, put it that way. Yeah. Sure.

2290
02:15:17,020 --> 02:15:18,860
Yeah. Most of our stores probably have new

2291
02:15:18,860 --> 02:15:24,665
owners since then, but Yeah. Not all. True.

2292
02:15:24,665 --> 02:15:26,505
So then you'd have to take that into

2293
02:15:26,505 --> 02:15:29,545
consideration because the violation goes with the owner.

2294
02:15:29,865 --> 02:15:34,905
Right. Instead of saying amount of years, can

2295
02:15:34,905 --> 02:15:38,560
we say going back say till 2010, like

2296
02:15:38,560 --> 02:15:41,360
put a year on it? Sure, you can

2297
02:15:41,360 --> 02:15:45,920
do anything. So it'll keep getting longer as

2298
02:15:45,920 --> 02:15:48,400
time goes on, but it wouldn't be anything

2299
02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:52,685
prior to your You could do that. For

2300
02:15:52,685 --> 02:15:54,764
some reason, and I don't know what it

2301
02:15:54,764 --> 02:15:57,485
is, Amy, when you and I were meeting

2302
02:15:57,485 --> 02:16:01,244
with Meredith today, she was, no, we're gonna

2303
02:16:01,244 --> 02:16:04,045
continue our current practice. Well, then that's why

2304
02:16:04,045 --> 02:16:06,140
I said you may wanna talk to because

2305
02:16:06,620 --> 02:16:10,140
they have a reason and she may have

2306
02:16:10,140 --> 02:16:13,820
a strategy and a standard operating procedure for

2307
02:16:13,820 --> 02:16:17,820
this that we just don't know. Yeah. I

2308
02:16:17,820 --> 02:16:19,500
mean, far as fines go, I would say

2309
02:16:19,500 --> 02:16:21,340
let's go with the state fines. They're higher,

2310
02:16:22,515 --> 02:16:24,675
You know, let's just go with that. They

2311
02:16:24,675 --> 02:16:27,875
are. It is easier. Easier. I I mean,

2312
02:16:27,875 --> 02:16:30,915
I feel comfortable with that. With the unified,

2313
02:16:30,915 --> 02:16:34,594
right? Yeah. And then we'll take the lower

2314
02:16:34,594 --> 02:16:36,516
end of the suspensions of one, seven and

2315
02:16:36,516 --> 02:16:41,840
thirty. Mhmm. And potentially the fourth as a

2316
02:16:42,160 --> 02:16:45,440
permit revocation. Mhmm. And we can take out

2317
02:16:45,440 --> 02:16:50,799
the word egregious. Because his hand doesn't like

2318
02:16:50,799 --> 02:16:54,075
this. Well, just think I don't blame you.

2319
02:16:54,075 --> 02:16:57,596
If it's not defined, I think people can

2320
02:16:57,596 --> 02:17:00,315
always protest it and I would prefer it

2321
02:17:00,315 --> 02:17:04,090
to be cleaner. You know, Suzanne, that word

2322
02:17:04,090 --> 02:17:06,410
came up again this afternoon when Amy and

2323
02:17:06,410 --> 02:17:10,330
I were talking Meredith and Donna you probably

2324
02:17:10,330 --> 02:17:13,770
know this that each inspector sort of has

2325
02:17:13,770 --> 02:17:16,730
a sense of what's egregious or not and

2326
02:17:17,290 --> 02:17:20,405
know and it's one of those gut level

2327
02:17:20,405 --> 02:17:24,405
things and to put a definition around it

2328
02:17:24,805 --> 02:17:30,004
it's situational it is contextual. Oh I appreciate

2329
02:17:30,004 --> 02:17:36,101
that but if we're going to have the

2330
02:17:36,340 --> 02:17:41,459
our penalties based on egregious and we haven't

2331
02:17:41,459 --> 02:17:44,975
defined it, I think that's problematic. I totally

2332
02:17:44,975 --> 02:17:46,415
agree with you. It's just funny the word

2333
02:17:46,415 --> 02:17:49,295
just keeps coming up. Well, I guess the

2334
02:17:49,295 --> 02:17:51,535
question is, you know, if someone's having a

2335
02:17:51,535 --> 02:17:54,334
fourth violation and where you know can revoke

2336
02:17:54,334 --> 02:17:57,455
their permit, and their only violation is that

2337
02:17:57,455 --> 02:18:02,080
they charge $2.50 a whatever a cigar instead

2338
02:18:02,080 --> 02:18:04,400
of $2.90. Are we going to feel good

2339
02:18:04,400 --> 02:18:08,721
about that? Well, believe the language for that,

2340
02:18:08,799 --> 02:18:18,334
for the egregious section, says May. May permanently

2341
02:18:18,334 --> 02:18:22,174
revoke. So there's discretion there with the egregious

2342
02:18:22,174 --> 02:18:25,215
piece. So if we're for violations of not

2343
02:18:25,215 --> 02:18:28,734
having a sign or selling a single cigar,

2344
02:18:29,190 --> 02:18:31,990
you may revoke it. You don't have to

2345
02:18:31,990 --> 02:18:35,270
revoke it. Mhmm. That's the only place where

2346
02:18:35,270 --> 02:18:44,245
it says May. And what about like the

2347
02:18:44,245 --> 02:18:50,725
signs, signage? The signage drives me crazy. Because

2348
02:18:50,725 --> 02:18:54,830
not only, you know, the DPH, when they

2349
02:18:54,830 --> 02:18:58,351
draft, when DPH drafted the regulations that accompany

2350
02:18:58,351 --> 02:19:02,110
this law, they added an additional $50 fine

2351
02:19:02,110 --> 02:19:05,311
for not having the signs. So it's technically

2352
02:19:05,391 --> 02:19:08,511
a thousand dollars and a thousand $50 if

2353
02:19:08,511 --> 02:19:11,785
you don't have these signs, which we testified

2354
02:19:12,186 --> 02:19:14,425
in opposition to that, but they left it

2355
02:19:14,425 --> 02:19:17,065
in. When I say we, was at the

2356
02:19:17,065 --> 02:19:19,065
time it was I testified in opposition to

2357
02:19:19,065 --> 02:19:21,706
it and DJ did at the public council

2358
02:19:22,186 --> 02:19:33,150
hearing, but they left it in. So, yeah.

2359
02:19:34,030 --> 02:19:38,235
It seems silly to me. But again, inspectors

2360
02:19:38,235 --> 02:19:39,995
do, and I'm sure Donna does it as

2361
02:19:39,995 --> 02:19:41,834
well, if they don't have the signs, you

2362
02:19:41,834 --> 02:19:43,516
go in and you bring them the sign.

2363
02:19:44,314 --> 02:19:46,555
You don't fine them a thousand dollars and

2364
02:19:46,555 --> 02:19:48,795
a thousand $50, you just bring them the

2365
02:19:48,795 --> 02:19:51,609
sign and they put it Don't you think

2366
02:19:51,609 --> 02:19:53,689
Donna it's more like when you go in

2367
02:19:53,930 --> 02:19:56,250
and you find menthol and you find this

2368
02:19:56,250 --> 02:19:58,569
and you find the no excise and then

2369
02:19:58,569 --> 02:20:00,649
they don't have the signs then you. Right,

2370
02:20:00,729 --> 02:20:03,210
then it almost seems blatant that they're just

2371
02:20:03,210 --> 02:20:06,995
like you know, I'm with Charlotte, the sign

2372
02:20:06,995 --> 02:20:09,075
thing can drive you crazy. You know, there's

2373
02:20:09,075 --> 02:20:10,436
always a reason why they don't have them,

2374
02:20:10,436 --> 02:20:12,195
either they took them down to paint or

2375
02:20:12,275 --> 02:20:13,636
they fell down, they needed a new one,

2376
02:20:13,636 --> 02:20:15,795
it wore out, it's behind something. It's, you

2377
02:20:15,795 --> 02:20:17,716
know, lottery comes in and covers it. So,

2378
02:20:17,716 --> 02:20:20,050
try to peel it, it's gone. So, I

2379
02:20:20,050 --> 02:20:22,850
go through signage. I think the state wants

2380
02:20:22,850 --> 02:20:24,290
to kill me for how much signage I

2381
02:20:24,290 --> 02:20:26,050
go through, but I carry it with me

2382
02:20:26,050 --> 02:20:28,370
every time I go out and I hand

2383
02:20:28,370 --> 02:20:32,290
them out like it's candy. It's, one of

2384
02:20:32,290 --> 02:20:34,290
those things. You just got to keep giving

2385
02:20:34,290 --> 02:20:36,765
them to them. So you, so basically you

2386
02:20:36,765 --> 02:20:40,604
wouldn't cite someone for just that. You just

2387
02:20:40,604 --> 02:20:41,725
give them a sign. No, I would give

2388
02:20:41,725 --> 02:20:43,165
them a sign. And we always put it

2389
02:20:43,165 --> 02:20:44,525
in their notes, you know, when we're educating

2390
02:20:44,525 --> 02:20:45,885
them, know, when we're putting it into post

2391
02:20:45,885 --> 02:20:47,325
or putting it in our reports, we do

2392
02:20:47,325 --> 02:20:50,181
say delivered signage, delivered signage. So, you can

2393
02:20:50,181 --> 02:20:51,460
always go back and look and see that

2394
02:20:51,460 --> 02:20:53,221
history is there. You know, if you were

2395
02:20:53,221 --> 02:20:56,101
trying to come up with, you know, where

2396
02:20:56,101 --> 02:20:57,540
do we go with this? If you're having

2397
02:20:57,540 --> 02:20:58,740
a hearing, where do we go with this?

2398
02:20:58,740 --> 02:21:00,341
You can look at the history and see,

2399
02:21:01,141 --> 02:21:02,645
you know, and kind of use some of

2400
02:21:02,645 --> 02:21:04,565
that to your advantage to say, okay, we've

2401
02:21:04,565 --> 02:21:06,965
been in your store 18 times in the

2402
02:21:06,965 --> 02:21:09,045
last three years, and we've given you signs

2403
02:21:09,045 --> 02:21:13,979
15 of those 18 times. What gives? So

2404
02:21:13,979 --> 02:21:16,939
even though we don't have discretion, you know,

2405
02:21:16,939 --> 02:21:19,580
our regs will say shall fine or shall

2406
02:21:19,580 --> 02:21:22,620
whatever, you have a lot of discretion in

2407
02:21:22,620 --> 02:21:25,660
what you present to us, right? What's education

2408
02:21:25,660 --> 02:21:29,215
and what's what you cite. So that's where

2409
02:21:29,215 --> 02:21:32,495
the discretion comes in. Right. And and municipalities

2410
02:21:32,495 --> 02:21:34,255
are different. Some municipalities are to say, hey,

2411
02:21:34,255 --> 02:21:35,695
we just want you to go in, give

2412
02:21:35,695 --> 02:21:37,455
them that education. If you find things, let

2413
02:21:37,455 --> 02:21:39,535
us know. But we're not out handing out

2414
02:21:39,535 --> 02:21:41,775
tickets and and saying, you know, we got

2415
02:21:41,775 --> 02:21:43,370
you again. We got got you again. We're

2416
02:21:43,370 --> 02:21:46,330
educating, educating, giving them the tools they need.

2417
02:21:46,890 --> 02:21:48,970
And then, you know, the municipalities take it

2418
02:21:48,970 --> 02:21:51,610
from there. Oh, how do you keep it

2419
02:21:51,610 --> 02:21:56,490
straight? Yeah. And do you have municipalities that

2420
02:21:56,490 --> 02:21:58,305
will tell you that even when it comes

2421
02:21:58,305 --> 02:22:02,465
to selling to underage? They don't want you

2422
02:22:02,465 --> 02:22:03,984
to give they don't want you to fine?

2423
02:22:03,984 --> 02:22:06,064
Yeah, we don't do it there. It's up

2424
02:22:06,064 --> 02:22:08,305
to them. Actually make the decision on whether

2425
02:22:08,305 --> 02:22:15,370
the fine is going to happen. And I

2426
02:22:15,370 --> 02:22:17,529
have many towns there are a few towns

2427
02:22:17,529 --> 02:22:19,850
out here in Western Mass that have hold

2428
02:22:19,850 --> 02:22:25,905
permits. Just that's it. They've had more than

2429
02:22:25,905 --> 02:22:30,945
two or three sales too underage. There's no

2430
02:22:30,945 --> 02:22:33,426
questioning. It's in their regs and they pull

2431
02:22:33,426 --> 02:22:36,730
it. They even discuss it. It's a third

2432
02:22:36,730 --> 02:22:41,690
hit and it's done. It sends a pretty

2433
02:22:41,690 --> 02:22:44,971
strong message to the other establishments in their

2434
02:22:44,971 --> 02:22:47,290
towns. I mean, it does, you know, the

2435
02:22:47,290 --> 02:22:49,130
news spreads like wildfire. They talk to each

2436
02:22:49,130 --> 02:22:56,096
other. It's strict, but it's the way they

2437
02:22:56,096 --> 02:22:59,535
chose to write their own. Right. That's the

2438
02:22:59,535 --> 02:23:03,840
end of a business. And it so depends

2439
02:23:03,840 --> 02:23:05,920
on the municipality, I guess, and how they

2440
02:23:05,920 --> 02:23:07,760
feel about it because then other ones will

2441
02:23:07,760 --> 02:23:13,439
say don't even find them. Does the finding,

2442
02:23:13,439 --> 02:23:15,604
do you know this Cheryl, does the fine,

2443
02:23:15,604 --> 02:23:17,364
the fee, does it go into the general

2444
02:23:17,364 --> 02:23:18,965
fund of the municipal? It goes into the

2445
02:23:18,965 --> 02:23:21,845
general fund unless you've set up a special

2446
02:23:21,845 --> 02:23:24,885
fund, a revolving fund for tobacco. And I

2447
02:23:24,885 --> 02:23:27,779
don't think you've done that in Northampton. Yes,

2448
02:23:27,779 --> 02:23:29,140
I mean, you'd set up a special fund

2449
02:23:29,140 --> 02:23:31,220
like maybe for education or would go back

2450
02:23:31,220 --> 02:23:32,979
to the department. You would set up a

2451
02:23:32,979 --> 02:23:36,659
fund that would help you, that would give

2452
02:23:36,659 --> 02:23:38,979
you more resources to use in your time.

2453
02:23:40,226 --> 02:23:42,386
But most of the if you don't have

2454
02:23:42,386 --> 02:23:44,306
a special fund set up, it goes into

2455
02:23:44,306 --> 02:23:51,905
the general fund for the All right. It

2456
02:23:51,905 --> 02:23:55,025
sounds like we need more time to talk

2457
02:23:55,025 --> 02:24:02,729
about fines and suspensions and tolling period. And

2458
02:24:02,729 --> 02:24:05,290
I can start working on the draft and

2459
02:24:05,290 --> 02:24:08,569
I can speak with Meredith and she can

2460
02:24:08,569 --> 02:24:10,649
tell me why, well, and you guys can

2461
02:24:10,649 --> 02:24:13,105
also tell me why she feels strongly that

2462
02:24:13,105 --> 02:24:15,025
she doesn't want a tolling carrier. There's some

2463
02:24:15,025 --> 02:24:23,025
reason, I'm sure. I can't say why. I

2464
02:24:23,025 --> 02:24:25,105
just know that as a group in the

2465
02:24:25,105 --> 02:24:28,700
past, we wanted to be generally strict and

2466
02:24:28,700 --> 02:24:31,420
didn't want repeat offenders to just continue business

2467
02:24:31,420 --> 02:24:33,420
as usual, pay a fine and keep doing

2468
02:24:33,420 --> 02:24:39,436
it. But logistically keeping records, it sounds like

2469
02:24:39,436 --> 02:24:41,355
we really wanna make sure that we do

2470
02:24:41,355 --> 02:24:45,436
it right. We need more information about that.

2471
02:24:46,875 --> 02:24:50,716
Any other comments? I think we could probably

2472
02:24:52,190 --> 02:24:56,510
finish this discussion now and know that Cheryl

2473
02:24:56,510 --> 02:24:58,590
and Meredith would make up a draft, then

2474
02:24:58,590 --> 02:25:02,030
we'll just continue the discussion again. Yeah. We

2475
02:25:02,030 --> 02:25:07,035
just have something to work from. Great. Donna,

2476
02:25:07,035 --> 02:25:11,275
One thing. One of the other forms that,

2477
02:25:11,436 --> 02:25:13,035
Meredith sent you, know she sent you many,

2478
02:25:13,035 --> 02:25:14,875
so they're a bit confusing. She did send

2479
02:25:14,875 --> 02:25:16,875
one that was highlighted in yellow and green

2480
02:25:17,210 --> 02:25:20,810
that, we had done, comparing our regulations to

2481
02:25:20,810 --> 02:25:22,810
the state regulations. And a lot of the

2482
02:25:22,810 --> 02:25:25,610
highlighted yellow are the things that, really just

2483
02:25:25,610 --> 02:25:29,530
changes the language of what's in our regulations

2484
02:25:29,530 --> 02:25:31,745
right So, it's not necessarily adding anything, it's

2485
02:25:31,745 --> 02:25:33,585
just changing the language. And that's really important

2486
02:25:33,585 --> 02:25:37,265
to know because, really making it Yeah, because

2487
02:25:37,265 --> 02:25:39,105
we've run into a lot of, you know,

2488
02:25:39,105 --> 02:25:40,705
what really is a flavor and what really

2489
02:25:40,705 --> 02:25:42,305
is an enhancer and what really is a

2490
02:25:42,305 --> 02:25:45,540
blunt wrap? What really is manufacturer of letter?

2491
02:25:45,540 --> 02:25:49,221
Right, right. So, just clarifies, you know, what

2492
02:25:49,700 --> 02:25:52,020
that means. You know, we're constantly telling them

2493
02:25:52,020 --> 02:25:53,540
what it is and explaining to them what

2494
02:25:53,540 --> 02:25:55,301
it is. But, you know, when you go

2495
02:25:55,301 --> 02:25:57,460
back and you read the regulation, it's really

2496
02:25:57,460 --> 02:26:04,944
not clear. So it sounds like the state

2497
02:26:04,944 --> 02:26:07,585
regs have helped clean up our language quite

2498
02:26:07,585 --> 02:26:13,280
a bit. Yes. Good. Well, you, Cheryl and

2499
02:26:13,280 --> 02:26:15,280
Donna. Thank you so much for your Thank

2500
02:26:15,280 --> 02:26:19,841
you. Guidance. And it's complicated subject, for sure.

2501
02:26:20,240 --> 02:26:24,240
Sure is. We will take it up again.

2502
02:26:24,721 --> 02:26:27,545
Okay. Thank you. Thanks, folks. So much. You.

2503
02:26:27,545 --> 02:26:29,705
Good to see you, Cheryl. Bye bye. All

2504
02:26:32,425 --> 02:26:37,865
right, any closing thoughts about this topic? We'll

2505
02:26:37,865 --> 02:26:40,190
discuss it again. We can take as much

2506
02:26:40,190 --> 02:26:44,270
time as we want. To get it right

2507
02:26:44,351 --> 02:26:47,150
before we have a public forum on it,

2508
02:26:48,030 --> 02:26:51,070
and the only urgency is the fact that

2509
02:26:51,630 --> 02:26:54,351
we now have state regs and our own

2510
02:26:54,351 --> 02:26:56,766
local regs that are different. We have no

2511
02:26:56,766 --> 02:26:59,726
tolling period. There's these two different sets of

2512
02:26:59,726 --> 02:27:03,006
fines, and it's sort of complicated to manage

2513
02:27:03,165 --> 02:27:06,926
for us if there's violation between now and

2514
02:27:06,926 --> 02:27:12,100
when we finalize our regs. So, it'd be

2515
02:27:12,100 --> 02:27:16,979
good to get it together soon. Any other

2516
02:27:16,979 --> 02:27:20,340
thoughts about that? The only other question I

2517
02:27:20,340 --> 02:27:22,260
have is that I noticed a gas station

2518
02:27:22,260 --> 02:27:25,535
Speedway closed so they must have been selling

2519
02:27:25,535 --> 02:27:29,615
tobacco. They weren't? No, I think it had

2520
02:27:29,615 --> 02:27:32,575
more to do with their gas pumps required

2521
02:27:32,575 --> 02:27:36,016
a lot of upgrading and the financial cost

2522
02:27:36,016 --> 02:27:39,159
to that. Yeah. It wasn't why as much

2523
02:27:39,159 --> 02:27:43,080
as if there was another license available. Is

2524
02:27:43,080 --> 02:27:45,960
that the one on Route 10? King Street.

2525
02:27:51,125 --> 02:27:53,285
What happens in the just like you said,

2526
02:27:53,285 --> 02:27:55,205
Joanne, what happens in the interim while we're

2527
02:27:55,205 --> 02:27:56,965
deciding this? Do we just defer to state

2528
02:27:56,965 --> 02:27:59,125
regs at this point like we did today

2529
02:27:59,125 --> 02:28:02,245
because the citation was under state regs if

2530
02:28:02,245 --> 02:28:06,180
there is a violation? I think if there's

2531
02:28:06,180 --> 02:28:08,260
a violation of state regs, we have to

2532
02:28:08,260 --> 02:28:10,500
do what the state says. And if there's

2533
02:28:10,500 --> 02:28:12,500
a violation of local regs, we use our

2534
02:28:12,500 --> 02:28:16,739
current policy. Okay. I think so. It really

2535
02:28:16,739 --> 02:28:19,444
depends what they're cited for. As long as

2536
02:28:19,444 --> 02:28:24,164
it's stricter. As long as it's stricter, you

2537
02:28:24,164 --> 02:28:26,404
said? As long as ours are stricter than

2538
02:28:26,404 --> 02:28:29,445
the states, we can go with ours. Okay.

2539
02:28:29,604 --> 02:28:31,685
We can't be more lenient than the state.

2540
02:28:32,120 --> 02:28:34,280
Yeah. If ours are above and beyond, then

2541
02:28:34,280 --> 02:28:37,560
we do that. But if they didn't violate

2542
02:28:37,560 --> 02:28:39,319
a state reg, they don't have to have

2543
02:28:39,319 --> 02:28:42,920
the state penalty. I think that's I think

2544
02:28:42,920 --> 02:28:47,205
that's how I understand it. Yeah. All right

2545
02:28:47,205 --> 02:28:51,046
so it's to be continued next time. Shall

2546
02:28:51,046 --> 02:28:53,365
we do minutes? Did everyone have a chance

2547
02:28:53,365 --> 02:28:59,840
to look at minutes? November minutes do want

2548
02:28:59,840 --> 02:29:03,040
me to bring them up. Anybody have any

2549
02:29:03,040 --> 02:29:05,199
comments about them let's see if I have

2550
02:29:05,199 --> 02:29:12,720
a couple. Me see if I can find

2551
02:29:12,720 --> 02:29:14,535
them I thought I had them here a

2552
02:29:14,535 --> 02:29:36,850
second. Okay. One second. Where's my share screen?

2553
02:29:36,850 --> 02:29:56,095
It's covering up my share screen. Okay. Suzanne?

2554
02:29:58,550 --> 02:30:02,230
New business first paragraph. I think it would

2555
02:30:02,230 --> 02:30:05,750
be very helpful if in the second line,

2556
02:30:05,830 --> 02:30:10,070
if after COVID wastewater, if it said virus

2557
02:30:10,070 --> 02:30:19,095
concentration. Rather than just wastewater. That is true

2558
02:30:19,095 --> 02:30:31,010
also for the December minutes. Okay. Okay, and

2559
02:30:31,010 --> 02:30:33,330
also in that paragraph, I think it would

2560
02:30:33,330 --> 02:30:36,930
be very helpful if the sentence about flu,

2561
02:30:37,175 --> 02:30:40,135
Elliot reported that seven cases of flu, if

2562
02:30:40,135 --> 02:30:44,535
that came at the end, because the following

2563
02:30:44,535 --> 02:31:04,765
two sentences are about COVID again. Yep. Okay.

2564
02:31:04,925 --> 02:31:09,564
And then discussion of future board under new

2565
02:31:09,564 --> 02:31:17,245
business third paragraph. There. The last sentence, Commissioner

2566
02:31:19,580 --> 02:31:24,300
O'Leary. I didn't even notice that suggested having

2567
02:31:24,300 --> 02:31:30,380
a consultant. And that's what I have. This

2568
02:31:30,380 --> 02:31:32,300
is just a suggestion this doesn't have to

2569
02:31:32,300 --> 02:31:34,585
be done. But as I was looking through

2570
02:31:34,585 --> 02:31:37,306
the department updates, it seemed to me that

2571
02:31:37,306 --> 02:31:40,025
it would be much easier to read if

2572
02:31:40,025 --> 02:31:43,945
the department update dates were bulleted. Because this

2573
02:31:43,945 --> 02:31:46,505
is a paragraph of a lot of unrelated

2574
02:31:46,505 --> 02:31:50,400
topics. Not to change anything but it for

2575
02:31:50,400 --> 02:32:00,800
the future. Okay. Okay. That's it. Okay. Anybody

2576
02:32:00,800 --> 02:32:09,895
else. I'll do the bullets. Is it ready?

2577
02:32:11,654 --> 02:32:18,561
Yep. Does anybody wanna make a motion? I

2578
02:32:18,561 --> 02:32:24,480
make a motion to accept the minutes. Second.

2579
02:32:24,480 --> 02:32:30,561
With edits? With the edits, yes. Any other

2580
02:32:30,561 --> 02:32:38,854
discussion? And all in favor? Dallas? Yep. Suzanne?

2581
02:32:38,854 --> 02:32:44,774
Yes. Janet? Yes. Cynthia? Yes. Joanne? Yes. Thank

2582
02:32:44,774 --> 02:32:48,780
you. And December. Let's see if I can

2583
02:32:48,780 --> 02:33:32,705
find December minutes. Okay. Anybody? Suzanne, do you

2584
02:33:32,705 --> 02:33:35,745
have something else? Yeah, I have just a

2585
02:33:35,745 --> 02:33:42,580
couple. Data updates three, roman numeral three the

2586
02:33:44,899 --> 02:33:50,500
second there is was increased I think it

2587
02:33:50,500 --> 02:33:54,695
should the is should probably go And then

2588
02:33:54,695 --> 02:33:59,976
there should be an and there. No. And

2589
02:34:00,455 --> 02:34:04,855
then also the next line is the wastewater

2590
02:34:04,980 --> 02:34:30,485
virus concentration again. Yeah. Alright. Anything else? Spelling.

2591
02:34:32,030 --> 02:34:37,790
I'm sorry. Old business. I'll fix the spelling

2592
02:34:37,790 --> 02:34:48,035
of concentration. I'm sorry. Old business Roman numeral

2593
02:34:48,035 --> 02:34:57,154
five. Doctor Levin, Cheryl Savaro unable to and

2594
02:34:57,154 --> 02:35:01,970
that the state had just released new model

2595
02:35:01,970 --> 02:35:10,770
regulations. That's it. Alright. Anybody else? If you

2596
02:35:10,770 --> 02:35:14,965
go up to Jim's Variety, I think there's

2597
02:35:14,965 --> 02:35:20,325
an apostrophe after Jim and Jim's. Another grammar

2598
02:35:20,325 --> 02:35:26,165
snob, yay. And I can't recall, so I

2599
02:35:26,165 --> 02:35:28,550
don't know, but I can't recall if counselor

2600
02:35:28,550 --> 02:35:30,870
Mayori also talked about gender affirming care or

2601
02:35:30,870 --> 02:35:35,910
if that was brought up by myself. But,

2602
02:35:37,670 --> 02:35:39,670
yeah, I don't know if there's an edit

2603
02:35:39,670 --> 02:35:45,385
there necessarily. I think that was brought up

2604
02:35:45,385 --> 02:35:47,465
by you and she thought that that might

2605
02:35:47,465 --> 02:35:49,465
be included in her work. Did she say

2606
02:35:49,465 --> 02:35:52,745
that? I just know as a result of

2607
02:35:52,745 --> 02:35:56,470
this, Elliot had created a separate webpage on

2608
02:35:56,470 --> 02:35:59,189
the city's website for gender affirming care, but

2609
02:35:59,189 --> 02:36:01,189
I cannot recall if that was included in

2610
02:36:01,189 --> 02:36:06,790
this discussion. We did talk about putting information

2611
02:36:06,790 --> 02:36:11,695
on the website. And that is up now,

2612
02:36:11,695 --> 02:36:14,735
by the way. Right. Should I put that

2613
02:36:14,735 --> 02:36:22,655
in here? The city information about reproductive health

2614
02:36:22,655 --> 02:36:24,335
care and gender affirming care will be put

2615
02:36:24,335 --> 02:36:31,189
on the city website. Or is on our

2616
02:36:31,189 --> 02:36:37,510
website? It's on the city northamptonma.gov. Oh, it

2617
02:36:37,510 --> 02:36:40,125
is? Okay. Great. The link to it for

2618
02:36:40,125 --> 02:36:43,245
gender affirming care. And then on the sidebar,

2619
02:36:43,564 --> 02:37:03,200
there's also abortion. That sound look right? Yep.

2620
02:37:03,439 --> 02:37:12,675
Mhmm. Anything else? Okay. I might actually sorry.

2621
02:37:12,995 --> 02:37:18,435
I might go back up and put information

2622
02:37:18,435 --> 02:37:22,120
about abortion and reproductive healthcare or just reproductive

2623
02:37:22,120 --> 02:37:31,720
healthcare and strike women's. Okay. Okay, anything else?

2624
02:37:35,565 --> 02:37:39,485
Great. Anybody want to make a motion? I

2625
02:37:39,485 --> 02:37:43,966
motion to approve the minutes as edited. Second.

2626
02:37:44,925 --> 02:37:54,500
Any other discussion? All in favor, Dallas? Yes.

2627
02:37:55,620 --> 02:38:01,996
Suzanne? Yes. Janet? Yes. Cynthia? Yes. Joanne? Yes.

2628
02:38:03,355 --> 02:38:06,636
Thank you. I think oh, the last thing

2629
02:38:06,636 --> 02:38:09,436
to we were gonna go over the calendar.

2630
02:38:13,115 --> 02:38:17,051
So, Janet, you had some conflicts? I do.

2631
02:38:17,051 --> 02:38:21,530
I it was travel that was planned before

2632
02:38:21,530 --> 02:38:25,210
I had the meeting dates for both, unfortunately,

2633
02:38:25,210 --> 02:38:29,465
both February and March. I'm not expecting you

2634
02:38:29,465 --> 02:38:32,425
to change the meeting unless it's problematic for

2635
02:38:32,425 --> 02:38:39,465
others as well. That's it for the year.

2636
02:38:41,720 --> 02:38:44,680
I can't find that document. Meredith was going

2637
02:38:44,680 --> 02:38:45,800
to send it out, but I don't think

2638
02:38:45,800 --> 02:38:49,160
she sent it to me. Does anybody else

2639
02:38:49,160 --> 02:38:51,960
have it? No, but I have a conflict

2640
02:38:51,960 --> 02:38:55,405
in July. So I guess that brings up

2641
02:38:55,405 --> 02:38:57,806
the question which has come up before if

2642
02:38:57,806 --> 02:39:00,205
someone has a conflict do we try to

2643
02:39:00,205 --> 02:39:03,325
move the date, or if only one person

2644
02:39:03,325 --> 02:39:06,285
has a conflict we keep the date. We

2645
02:39:06,285 --> 02:39:08,859
certainly want to have a quorum and it's

2646
02:39:08,859 --> 02:39:12,300
certainly helpful for a lot of us and

2647
02:39:13,180 --> 02:39:16,700
Meredith's office and and to have some regularity

2648
02:39:16,700 --> 02:39:20,140
and predictability and for the public as well.

2649
02:39:22,945 --> 02:39:28,385
How would you like to handle that? I

2650
02:39:28,385 --> 02:39:29,825
I don't think you should move it for

2651
02:39:29,825 --> 02:39:33,025
one person because you'll still have a quorum.

2652
02:39:33,425 --> 02:39:38,420
Mhmm. It becomes very complicated to find another

2653
02:39:38,420 --> 02:39:47,380
date that we all can agree upon. It

2654
02:39:47,380 --> 02:39:49,780
makes we we have a full board now.

2655
02:39:49,780 --> 02:39:52,854
Right? Yes. It makes sense now that we

2656
02:39:52,854 --> 02:39:55,095
have a full board and a schedule for

2657
02:39:55,095 --> 02:39:58,375
the year that we would all be able

2658
02:39:58,375 --> 02:40:01,175
to plan out for the entire year. Mhmm.

2659
02:40:01,175 --> 02:40:06,980
Right. Right. Yep. I would agree not to

2660
02:40:06,980 --> 02:40:14,340
change it. So if someone can't come, they

2661
02:40:14,340 --> 02:40:15,940
should let me know because then if I

2662
02:40:15,940 --> 02:40:18,365
hear from two people then then maybe we

2663
02:40:18,365 --> 02:40:21,966
would consider changing it. A quorum is three,

2664
02:40:21,966 --> 02:40:24,205
right? So we need at least three. I

2665
02:40:24,205 --> 02:40:25,966
guess we could go forward with three, although

2666
02:40:25,966 --> 02:40:29,840
we wouldn't necessarily feel good about voting when

2667
02:40:29,840 --> 02:40:33,840
almost half of us are gone, but, it's

2668
02:40:34,000 --> 02:40:40,240
it would be legal. So I think if

2669
02:40:40,319 --> 02:40:42,319
one person's out, we'll keep it the same.

2670
02:40:42,319 --> 02:40:44,185
If two people are out, we could put

2671
02:40:44,185 --> 02:40:46,104
out a notice and see if there's an

2672
02:40:46,104 --> 02:40:50,265
easy fix. And if there isn't, then we'd

2673
02:40:50,265 --> 02:40:51,865
leave it. And if three people are out,

2674
02:40:51,865 --> 02:40:57,720
we can't really have the meeting. All right.

2675
02:40:57,720 --> 02:41:02,680
So our next scheduled meeting is February 16.

2676
02:41:03,560 --> 02:41:05,800
So right now, everyone can come except for

2677
02:41:05,800 --> 02:41:09,880
Janet. And we'll talk a lot more about

2678
02:41:09,880 --> 02:41:20,405
tobacco. Okay. Anything else? Thank you for all

2679
02:41:20,405 --> 02:41:22,966
your work tonight. It was a lot. Thank

2680
02:41:22,966 --> 02:41:27,061
you. Thank you. Thank all. Alright. We'll see

2681
02:41:27,061 --> 02:41:29,380
you next time. Alright. Feel better. Do we

2682
02:41:29,380 --> 02:41:32,740
have to move to adjourn? Oh, yeah. Move

2683
02:41:32,740 --> 02:41:38,180
to adjourn. Second. Let's race to be to

2684
02:41:38,180 --> 02:41:43,985
second that. Any discussion? All in favor? Dallas?

2685
02:41:43,985 --> 02:41:50,306
Aye. Yes. Suzanne? Yes. Janet? Yes. Cynthia? Yes.

2686
02:41:50,545 --> 02:41:53,186
Joanne, yes. We do it verbally because the

2687
02:41:53,186 --> 02:41:56,460
recording has to hear it, So can't can't

2688
02:41:56,460 --> 02:42:00,700
record our waves. Okay. Thank you, Amy. Alright.

2689
02:42:00,700 --> 02:42:02,061
Thank you. You guys have a good night.

2690
02:42:02,061 --> 02:42:02,540
Bye, everyone.