[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[8:39] Go over some housekeeping items first. Excuse me. Good evening, I will call on planning commissioners to speak on public item one by one. Each public item one by one, following staff's presentation. When speaking, please announce your name and speak slowly. Each item will require motion and a roll call vote.
[9:09] three minutes except applicants may have longer comment periods. I would like to remind everyone to
[9:14] please place your microphones on mute when you are not speaking. So at this point a special meeting
[9:20] of the North Planning Commission is called to order and let's begin with the flag salute please.
[9:27] Please stand if you're able put your hand over your heart ready begin.
[9:57] First on agenda is approval of the minutes of the special planning commission meeting of August 12th, 2026, can I have a motion?
[10:07] I'll approve the I move to approve the minutes of the special planning commission meeting of August 12th, 2026, as submitted.
[10:14] All right, I'll second that roll call, please.
[10:18] Commissioner Maceeyes.
[10:20] Aye.
[10:21] Commissioner Vanola Salas.
[10:23] Aye.
[10:23] Yeah, Abu Daga.
[10:24] Aye.
[10:26] Next on the agenda is a public hearing to consider Director Approval Request, number 2026-09
[10:32] and conditional use permit, number 2026-04.
[10:38] Ruth, public notice information, please.
[10:41] Yeah, Abu Daga, a name of the planning commission.
[10:43] On August the 13th, notice of this public hearing was mailed to 127 property owners within
[10:52] a 500-foot radius posted at the city's three designated posting sites and published
[10:59] in the Norwalk Patriot on August the 14th.
[11:03] As of today, no response has been received.
[11:06] All right.
[11:06] Thank you, Ruth.
[11:07] Staffer, please.
[11:09] Thank you, Chair.
[11:11] are we have our assistant planner, Stephanie Topia,
[11:14] who will be providing the presentation.
[11:17] Okay, thank you.
[11:26] Good evening, Chair and members of the commission.
[11:30] The item before you tonight is Director of Provo Request
[11:34] number 2026-09, and conditional use permit number
[11:39] 2026-04 for Norway Gonzales Market, located at 11660
[11:46] Firestone Boulevard.
[11:51] The subject site is located at the southwest corner of
[11:54] Firestone Boulevard and Pioneer Boulevard. The property is approximately 9 at
[12:00] 4.97 acres and is developed with the existing Norway grocery market. The site
[12:07] has a general plan designation of General Commercial. The surrounding areas are
[12:12] consists primarily of general commercial users to the north, east, and west, and residential
[12:19] users to the south. The neighboring residential use to the south is buffered by an approximately
[12:26] a hundred-foot-wide section of railroad right away.
[12:34] Norge has historically operated as a neighborhood
[12:37] grocery market serving residents of Norwok since 2007. In 2007, the planning commission approved
[12:45] approved precise development plan number 1777 for an interior and exterior remodel that
[12:54] established the current Norway.
[12:57] Including the existing bona fide restaurant with indoor and outdoor dining, operations similar
[13:03] to a food court or a food hall.
[13:07] In the same year, conditional use permit number A61 was approved for ABC type 21 of sale
[13:15] general license establishing operational standards for alcohol sales including restrictions
[13:22] on the sales of single containers and alcohol beverages.
[13:26] In 2016, conditional use permit number 936 was approved for the instructional testing
[13:35] under ABC type 86 license.
[13:39] Norway has an established grocery market, restaurant, and alcohol operation that requires
[13:46] before the commission involved modifications and additions to the existing operations.
[13:56] The applicant is proposing to expand the existing Norway into American-style dining experience.
[14:03] The proposed renovations include specialty food puestos, a bar, a bar area, an expanded
[14:11] indoor seating and improvements intend to enhance the connection between the
[14:18] market, dining and patio areas. The applicant identifies the cost-a-mess allocation
[14:24] as the first Norway to introduce the mercado concept. For reference the cost-a-mess
[14:31] mercado includes culinary kiosk, indoor and outdoor dining, a bar, entertainment
[14:37] space and other improvements. I want to clarify that this proposed
[14:43] Mercado renovations are separated from the entitlements
[14:46] currently proposed before the commission. The request before the commission to
[14:53] 29, D-A-R number 2026-309, and C-U-P-20-—
[15:00] Section 26-04, as specifically related to the proposed on-site alcohol and life entertainment component, and the modification of the existing of the alcohol condition. The Mercado renovations itself is now what the commission is being asked to approve through this application.
[15:30] For the commission's reference on page number six, the following images illustrate the existing Mercado concept.
[15:39] at Norgate Costa Mesa location. As shown, the concept incorporates specialty food
[15:46] puestos indoor dining and bar areas, as well as outdoor dining areas. This
[15:53] provides a commission with an example of the Mercado concept that the applicant
[15:57] is proposing to bring to the Norwalk location.
[16:04] There are two related requests
[16:05] before the commission tonight. The applicant is requesting director approval
[16:11] request number 2026-09 to allow the Ancillary Self of Beer, Wine, and Distilled Spirits
[16:19] alcohol beverage control ABCI-47 license for on-site consumption and live entertainment
[16:27] as far as the bona fide restaurant operations within Norgegon Salas Market, Norgegate and
[16:34] In conditional use primary number 2026-04, to modify the conditions of the existing
[16:41] CUP number 861 to allow Norge to sell single containers of beer, wine, and distilled
[16:49] spirits for off-site consortium under ABC type 21 license.
[16:58] The Norge is located within an existing 4.97 acre shopping center.
[17:03] It is designed with customer parking and vehicular circulation areas surrounding the building.
[17:11] The existing site configuration will remain the same.
[17:15] No exterior building additions or expansions of the existing building footprint are proposed as part of this application.
[17:23] The
[17:30] subject site is developed with approximately 57,081 square-footed market operated by Norge
[17:38] Gonzalez Market.
[17:40] The storefront also includes El Patio de Dognadina, which serves as an outdoor dining area.
[17:48] I would like to show the commission the existing interior conditions of the Norge Market.
[17:53] As shown in these pictures on slide number 10, the existing facility already includes
[18:00] prepared food and dining areas, along with existing grocery market areas that will enhance
[18:07] that will be enhanced as part of the proposal.
[18:14] Norgate the existing operation include a bona fide restaurant component consistent of prepared
[18:21] food service with indoor and outdoor dining.
[18:24] While the primary grocery market use will remain unchanged, Norway is proposing a substantial
[18:31] interior renovation.
[18:33] The proposed interior renovation will maintain the existing grocery market and restaurant
[18:39] operations while expanding the mercado concept with specialty culinary sections, including
[18:46] in Carnitas, Saviteria, Huacamoleria, Guizados,
[18:51] Samaleria, Taqueria, and Tortilleria puestos.
[18:55] The renovation will also include the Placita Express,
[19:00] a cell checkout area to enhance the overall customer service.
[19:06] The proposed interior renovation will also include
[19:09] the Entrenos Bar and La Licoreria, a express puesto.
[19:15] To complement the food service offerings
[19:17] and enhance the overall customer experience.
[19:21] This proposed interior renovations are separate
[19:24] from the entitlements currently
[19:26] before the planning commission
[19:27] and are not part of the commissions approval tonight.
[19:38] Moving into the business operation,
[19:41] Norway operates seven days a week from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m.
[19:46] The outdoor patio areas will operate from 11 a.m.
[19:50] to 10 p.m. Monday through Sunday.
[19:52] The alcohol service is intent to complement the food service component of the Mercado
[19:59] concept, rather than operate as an standalone bar used with specialty food, kiosk, providing
[20:06] food and beverages for immediate consumption and customer-oriented amenities and gathering
[20:13] spaces.
[20:14] Alcohol services, alcohol sales and service cannot begin before 11 a.m. and must cease
[20:22] not leading the 60 minutes before the business closes, or immediately when the kitchen
[20:28] closes whichever occurs first. On Saturday and Sundays, alcohol service might begin early
[20:35] at 7 a.m. to only upon demonstration of breakfast or brunch menu.
[20:41] The alcohol service and live entertainment are intended to complement the food service
[20:48] component of the mercado.
[20:55] The applicant is requesting approval of the AR number 2026-09 to allow the ancillary
[21:03] self-obtier, wine, and distilled spirits for on-site consumption under ABC type 47 license
[21:11] assistance as part of the Norway existing bona fide restaurant operations.
[21:17] The applicant is also proposing live entertainment consisting of occasional live music, including
[21:24] installing mariachi performance.
[21:27] The entertainment will occur indoors during the business normal hours of operation and
[21:33] will complement the food service operations.
[21:36] The proposed alcohol service and entertainment will be subject to the recommended conditions
[21:42] of approval.
[21:47] The applicant's proposed live entertainment was initially processed as a conditional
[21:52] use permit 2026-02.
[21:56] To put forth in review of the normal municipal code, staff determine that the proposed live
[22:02] entertainment is include within the restaurant bar use category, which is permitted by
[22:08] right in the general commercial C3 zone. Therefore, the UP number 2026-02 was withdrawn and no action
[22:18] is being requests for the commission on that application. Any live entertainment will take place
[22:24] indoors during the business normal hours of operation and will be intended to complement the
[22:31] markets would service operations.
[22:34] No outdoor entertainment is proposed as part of this request.
[22:39] Live entertainment remains addressed
[22:41] as an operational component of the AR number 2026-309.
[22:51] The applicant is requesting approval
[22:54] to modify conditional use permit number 861
[22:58] by deleting conditions of approval number 24 and 25.
[23:02] to allow the cell of a qualifying single containers of alcohol beverages in quantities of 25
[23:09] ounces or less. Conditional use perme number 24 currently prohibits the cell of wine or
[23:17] spirits in containers smaller than 750 milliliters. Conditional number 25 prohibits the cell of single
[23:26] containers of beer, malt beverages, or wine coolers, unless these items are sold in multi-unit
[23:33] quantities prepackaged by the manufacturer. The request does not involve the issuance of a new
[23:40] or additional alcohol beverage license. Rather, the request will modify the existing conditions
[23:47] approval that currently restrict the size and quantity of alcohol beverages for off-site consumption.
[23:54] The proposed modification will allow the grocery market to offer qualifying single container
[24:02] alcoholic beverages of 25 ounces or less while continuing to operate under the existing
[24:10] type 21 license and the remaining conditions of CUP number A61.
[24:23] The following subject site conditions in relation to the alcohol sales is for planning commissions
[24:30] considerations. ABC recommends no more than 3 on-cell licenses within track 5520.02.
[24:41] According to ABC, there are currently 2 on-cell alcohol establishments within this census
[24:47] track. Therefore, the census track 5520.02, area complies with the number of allow on-cell
[24:57] licenses. For the also establishments, ABC, ABC recommends no more than two licenses.
[25:05] There are currently three existing of sale establishments within the Census Struct. Because
[25:12] CUP number 2026 actually for modified Norway existing type 21 operations and it does not
[25:21] established and new of cell licenses, this request will not increase existing concentration
[25:28] of cell establishments.
[25:34] In our analysis, the staff consider the surrounding uses compatibility and public safety.
[25:42] For the AR number 2026-09, the proposed alcohol service and life entertainment will operate
[25:51] As ancillary components to the Norway existing bona fide restaurant operations for CUP
[25:58] number 2026-04, the request will modify the conditions of the existing CUP A61 to allow
[26:07] qualifying single containers, alcoholic beverages, cells for off-site consumption,
[26:19] The proposed alcohol uses are ancillary to the existing grocery market and bona-fi restaurant operations.
[26:28] The project does not involve an expansion of the existing building footprint, and staff has conclude
[26:34] conditions has include conditions addressing alcohol cells, entertainment, security, and other
[26:42] operation standards.
[26:44] The requests are consistent with the applicable zoning code requirements and general plan
[26:50] policies for the general commercial C3 zone.
[26:55] Finally, the staff has determined that the project qualifies for a class one exemption under
[27:01] SQL guidelines section 153014 existing facilities.
[27:10] Based on the analysis, the staff determine
[27:13] that the necessary findings can be made for both applications. The proposed uses are consistent
[27:20] with the general plan and see three zoning, and the recommended conditions are intended to ensure
[27:27] that the operations remain compatible with surrounding properties and project and protect
[27:33] public health, safety and welfare.
[27:38] Therefore, I recommend that the Planning Commission
[27:41] adopts resolution number 26-11, approving director approval request number 2026-09.
[27:52] Adobe resolution 26-12, approving conditional use permit number 2026-04, and consider and
[28:02] find that the project is exempt from CEQA pursuant to section 15301 class existing facilities.
[28:12] That concludes the staff's presentation.
[28:15] The staff and the applicant are available to answer any questions.
[28:19] Thank you.
[28:21] All right.
[28:21] Thank you.
[28:22] Any questions or staff?
[28:27] I just want to have one thing.
[28:28] Thank you guys for this.
[28:29] It's very thorough.
[28:30] It took me a long time to read this.
[28:32] Thank you to the staff.
[28:33] There's a lot of stuff on here, so I have a question of staff.
[28:40] Is there anywhere else in town that we allow the sale of the single use containers?
[28:45] Or this would just be the first offsite sale of the single use container?
[28:50] Or would this be our first site?
[28:53] Because I don't recall this allowing this before.
[28:55] I think it was just pre-packaged from the manufacturer, maybe two in a pack.
[29:04] The request for the single cell is also because of the component or the restaurant, but
[29:11] no, we don't allow the single service cell of other.
[29:18] I believe there is one location that we allow it, but I would have to look more into to
[29:23] let you know which exact location is the one that that permitted.
[29:27] Okay, because I guess my question is the two requests.
[29:30] The one is for the on sale because of the live entertainment and
[29:35] the new concept of selling the liquor inside the facility.
[29:41] And then the second one, 2026-04, to sell single containers, beer wine,
[29:48] distilled for off-site consumption.
[29:50] So that means to sell through the cash register and take home with you, single use.
[29:55] Is that what you're saying?
[29:56] Correct.
[29:57] Okay.
[30:00] That's really not related to the first one. It's just separate. It's just separate request. So, the first request, as you are mentioning, is to allow the on-site consumption. So that's 547 ABC license, which is to allow the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption with a dining restaurant. You're eating dining. Correct. Okay. But again, it has to have the dining component, which Norge already has a restaurant.
[30:27] And then the conditional you spray me 2026, actually, or four is to allow the single cells to take home. So it's totally separate.
[30:37] Correct. Okay. Any other questions of moment?
[31:07] Okay. All right. Let's continue then. Is the applicant here? And do you wish to speak? We may have some questions.
[31:14] Make
[31:20] sure that microphone's on.
[31:22] There.
[31:23] There we can hear you.
[31:25] Great.
[31:29] There we go.
[31:30] Hi.
[31:30] Good evening.
[31:31] My name is Steve Rollings.
[31:32] I am here on behalf of the
[31:34] North Gaugher.
[31:35] I'm also joining me this evening is
[31:39] Diana Cabrera, who's the director of
[31:42] Merrick's experience.
[31:44] And Jacqueline Delgado, who is
[31:46] business manager or coordinator.
[31:50] and they would be available for any questions that anybody may have.
[31:54] I'd like to first say echo your comments. Stephanie, that was an excellent staff report.
[32:02] So my compliments to the staff for that, so I appreciate, is very thorough.
[32:08] But I do want to take a little bit of time and add a little bit to kind of the concept,
[32:13] as well as tell you a little bit more about Northgate Gonzalez.
[32:17] Northgate Gonzalez, but also for the record.
[32:20] We agree with your staff's recommendation and do agree to all the draft commitments
[32:24] of approval.
[32:25] A little bit about Northgate Gonzalez.
[32:28] They were founded in 1984, I believe, early 80s by an immigrant family.
[32:35] And they are the quintessential success story, Southern California and the United States.
[32:42] They now have over 50 stores.
[32:45] their first store was a pretty small store. Their largest store now is about a 75,000 square foot store.
[32:51] This store is about 58,000 square feet, and they now have about 50 of them.
[32:57] There is now 9,000 employees, and it is still very much family owned.
[33:04] I don't know the number of Gonzales family members that are employed there, but I suspect it's...
[33:12] Yeah, it's a hundred or more. So this is a family-owned business and a lot of companies
[33:20] like to say that they treat their employees like family. Northgate actually does. And
[33:25] I'll give you an anecdote here. They have hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands of employees
[33:32] that have been working for the Gonzalez family for decades. There's a lot of 30-year
[33:39] customer employees and I think that's one of the best testimonies you can give about
[33:44] how good this employer is.
[33:46] They offer benefits and a great work environment and most of the people are personally known
[33:54] by somebody in the Gonzalez family.
[33:58] So they have this story in Norwalk for quite some time and we're coming here to this evening
[34:06] because there's a concept that Northgate Gonzales has begun to roll out into their stores with great success.
[34:15] And it is actually rather unique from all other grocery stores and the very first one of these new
[34:23] concepts type of stores is in Costa Mesa, California. It's a very large store about 75,000 square feet.
[34:29] I think they took over like a home depot or a Lowe's door and they converted it into a traditional
[34:37] grocery store, but they created this entire Mercado concept where there are many things to buy
[34:46] that are freshly made, definitely alluded to the Mollies. Of course, they do a huge tortilla business
[34:55] and the VJ and prepared actual meals that people can actually purchase. Some people take it to
[35:04] go, but a lot of people nowadays actually stay in the store just because of the inviting environment
[35:10] and it really encourages families. My understanding is that on Sunday mornings, especially after church,
[35:16] this is a large, large gathering place for families and they come and they eat, enjoy down in
[35:24] to Mesa, they enjoy strolling mariaches as well as other types of entertainment that they
[35:29] offer there. So we're bringing this to Norwalk. There is one other store that's under construction
[35:39] that is doing this concept. I'm very happy to say that we will be submitting tenant improvement
[35:48] the first week in September, so this is a reality that's coming to Norwalk, the investment
[35:55] of the Gonzalez family is going to be making is going to be near $10 million to retrofit
[36:01] this store and bring a completely different environment and a completely different experience
[36:05] that nobody has seen before.
[36:08] The request does involve adding alcohol service for on-site consumption to the facility.
[36:18] We have an outdoor dining area and we will be adding a little bit more sit-down dining
[36:23] there, but it is designed as you know obviously kind of part of a food hall if you would.
[36:29] We use the word Mercado type of concept with many Puestos serving food.
[36:36] There is a single spot that you can buy the alcohol.
[36:38] There is actually a bar right there that you can purchase the alcohol and people will
[36:44] take that and, you know, sit back at their table or continue with their shopping.
[36:50] In terms of the offsite fails, which we talked a little bit about too, we are requesting
[36:57] the ability to bail with cell single beers.
[36:58] And there's a very, very distinct reason for that is we have for years done what they
[37:07] call tastings or samplings.
[37:09] So if you're a craft beer manufacturer, you actually have the opportunity at North
[37:14] Gate Gonzales to actually set up a table, kind of cordon off a roped area within the store
[37:20] there and invite customers to come and taste your beer.
[37:26] And oftentimes we're coming with an IPA or a logger and so on and so forth, so it's an opportunity for customers to be able to experience that.
[37:37] That's very closely regulated by the way.
[37:40] You can only get three one ounce pours of beer and other products just filled spirits.
[37:45] You get a quarter ounce, so it's not designed to sit there and drink or anything like that.
[37:49] But it gives an opportunity for our partners, our alcohol partners to be able to come in and highlight their product there.
[37:57] And what's important for us in terms of the single sales is oftentimes these manufacturers would prefer to sell them as single cans, which we would prefer to too.
[38:09] And oftentimes you might come in and buy a beer from this craft manufacturer.
[38:16] And then there's another one over here, and so you may actually check out with a collection
[38:21] of two or three, but they're different brands of beverages.
[38:27] We have the ability to sell singles in most of our stores there, obviously we're a very
[38:32] large format grocery store.
[38:35] There are 200 employees at this particular store, not to say all 200 of them are working at
[38:41] same time, but there's over 100 people that are Northgate employees and obviously, we're
[38:49] like any other retailer.
[38:53] We certainly don't like to see a product leave without it being paid
[38:57] for. So we pay very, very close attention. We have many managers, so whenever you walk into
[39:04] a Northgate there's going to be a lot of people there. We pride ourselves on customer service.
[39:08] If somebody is wandering around looking for something, we, you know, are the employees
[39:14] approach them and say, hey, can I help you out with something and help the customers?
[39:19] So we have not had big issues in other communities with the selling of single beers.
[39:29] Not 100% sure what the underlying reasoning is for limiting the ability to sell single
[39:40] beers. In some respects, if somebody just is coming in and all they want is a 16-ounce beer,
[39:47] why do they have to walk out with three? You know,
[39:52] it's a true question that I ask a lot of people,
[39:57] but in some people say that, hey, it's easy to shop. Well, we understand that. And as a retailer,
[40:03] or we go through reasonable measures to do what we can to deter that.
[40:10] We don't have high shrinkage levels, but there is some of that that does go on.
[40:18] So it is important for Northgate to just have the flexibility to do that.
[40:23] Obviously we're not selling the big 40 ounce old English 800s or Colt 45s.
[40:30] it's limited to, you know, kind of your traditional beers,
[40:32] so it's a much smaller size,
[40:34] and it's a preference of a lot of customers,
[40:38] and as I gave the example before,
[40:41] it gives the ability to be able to purchase
[40:43] from this craft beer, and this craft beer, this craft beer,
[40:49] instead of having to only, you know,
[40:50] buy three beers at the same manufacturer.
[40:53] So, that's important to us,
[40:56] and we appreciate your consideration on that,
[40:59] and hopefully you'll support this.
[41:01] That request, I know that your senior management
[41:04] has kind of reviewed the request,
[41:06] and I believe that your public safety department
[41:08] has reviewed that,
[41:09] and they don't seem to have any particular issues
[41:12] with allowing Northgate to be able to do that.
[41:17] In terms of the, going back a little bit to the Palescos
[41:22] and the Mercado,
[41:25] This concept has been so well received down in Costa Rica.
[41:30] I don't know if anybody's had a chance to go down there, but I encourage you down there.
[41:33] It is an experience like you.
[41:35] And the community has embraced it.
[41:39] And we're really happy to be able to start rolling that concept out to existing stores.
[41:45] And we've developed a very, very loyal following here in Norwalk.
[41:50] talk. We would like to bring this to the citizens of Norrock. I think it's a great addition.
[41:57] It's a great investment into your community by an excellent employer, an excellent retailer,
[42:04] and we appreciate your consideration and hope that you'll support our request this evening.
[42:10] And I'm available for any questions.
[42:13] Okay, so, and I'll tell you that you're the North source fabulous even the way it is. And
[42:19] I can't wait to see the new concept and we appreciate that you're investing, and your
[42:25] team is investing all of this, you know, for this new concept.
[42:30] And I think it's wonderful.
[42:31] I don't have any problem with the alcohol consumption onsite.
[42:35] The only thing is the off cell single and I'll tell you the reason behind what we've noticed
[42:41] or the reason behind the way we've always felt about it over the years is a lot of times
[42:48] As the folks won't go and gather up enough money to just buy a beer.
[42:53] And they stand outside and either ask for money or they go recycle, right?
[42:58] Enough to get three bucks or four bucks and then they walk in and they buy a beer.
[43:03] That's all they buy, like you said, it's not, it's not your me buying 12 craft bears to give it a try.
[43:08] It's the folks that were concerned with that buy a single beer, hang out outside, ask somebody else for $3.
[43:16] go back inside by. You know what I mean, it's that type of environment. And I'm not saying that it would, it's just you or your store, I'm sure your folks are well educated and someone so far, I just don't know.
[43:30] I'm just, I'm just trying to understand. I'm glad you brought up the fact that it's about, you know, maybe sampling the craft beers and buying one of each.
[43:39] I totally understand that.
[43:41] It's the folks that don't have that concept in their mind
[43:45] and they're out there getting a cycle of 25 cans
[43:49] somehow to get four bucks to go by a bear
[43:51] and then hang out.
[43:53] That's my concern.
[43:55] If I could add or make some comments,
[43:58] do that.
[43:58] I understand that.
[44:00] What we have found in the sale,
[44:03] I represent also a lot of convenience stores
[44:07] as well as this Northgate Gonzalez, which is a large format in grocery store, you're definitely
[44:15] going to see that behavior far more at a smaller convenience store than you do a grocery store.
[44:22] The grocery store is set up, you have to walk a little distance to get to where the beer is,
[44:28] there's a lot of people around and we have a lot of staff around and we actively
[44:37] monitor the activity out in our parking lot.
[44:40] You want to scare customers away, then have some people out there panhandling a parking lot and making people feel uncomfortable.
[44:47] That's a really great way to drive away customers.
[44:51] In Northgate knows that, and we have always been very proactive with that, and we've worked with law enforcement on occasions.
[44:58] and what happened.
[45:00] This is after a while when they know that a Northgate manager is going to come out, say something to you, or if the situation isn't appropriate, then we're just going to make a phone call to the local law enforcement. Those folks get the idea pretty quickly and they move because they don't want to have conversations with police officers. So I understand that concern. I'm just telling you, it doesn't happen at the large group format.
[45:29] grocery stores. I've worked in a lot of communities where their policy is that they put some restrictions
[45:35] on convenience stores or stores of a certain certain size but they allow the large-scale grocery
[45:41] stores to operate a little bit differently because that's not the type of customer. If you're
[45:47] if you're just looking for a beer or something like that they're going to hang out a liquor store,
[45:53] they're going to hang out at a different convenience store, they're not hanging out at a very family-friendly
[45:58] active parking lot, active management to come in and buy a cheap beer and then hang out
[46:04] and look parking lot.
[46:05] We're not going to let them hang out and look parking lot for very long.
[46:08] And I think that that's a true, you know, I believe that that's a really true scenario.
[46:14] And I know it's a little bit anecdotal, but I have seen this in action.
[46:20] You don't see that type of activity with folks in at a large format grocery store.
[46:27] I only ask because you saw the recycling center out there where folks, there's a large
[46:34] population of folks that I'm referring to that are out your recycling center at the
[46:39] back of your store and I think that we remove that from there and you're right.
[46:45] I mean recycling centers sometimes have an tendency to grow that.
[46:49] Is it still there?
[46:52] And that's my concern and I'll just be honest.
[46:54] Yes, we had a Ralph Scrocery on Rose Grant, and it had a recycling center.
[46:59] And the folks would recycle all their cans and then walk in with their slip to redeem
[47:04] the money.
[47:05] You know, at that point, I don't know if you guys do that or not, but they would redeem
[47:08] those tickets and you probably don't redeem the tickets, but they're probably getting cash.
[47:16] Okay.
[47:18] I understand the concern and this is a very responsible business that's making a very
[47:25] large investment.
[47:26] We would like at least the opportunity to run the business that we would like, but I
[47:30] think we've proven that we're a very responsible week.
[47:32] And I'm not, yeah, I'm not questioning absolutely not the question.
[47:36] And so to have a blanket policy that says everybody has to do that, I think there's room
[47:42] for allowances for other types of businesses like this.
[47:47] I don't think that you're finding the Ralph stores as actively managed as you would
[47:52] in Northgate, Gonzalez store, and I know that just from experience.
[47:57] I've got a lot of Ralph stores, and there's hardly anybody working there in Northgate.
[48:03] There's people all over the place, so I understand conceptually the issues, but at any time
[48:12] A use permit can be called back in for modification of conditions if it's a public safety issue.
[48:20] Your local policing agency always has the ability to say, hey, we're having massive problems
[48:27] out here and we should take a look at the operations.
[48:30] Well, I have a question.
[48:32] You're going to understand you're asking for this, but you're going to have more alcohol
[48:37] being sold, because now you're going to have not only have the rest dropped, but you're
[48:41] going to be having a bar so you're going to have more people consuming alcohol in there
[48:45] because by the wires are shopping, the men are going to be able to just sit there and
[48:49] drink while the kids are being, I don't know what, is the bar completely separate from
[48:56] the restaurant? The bar is inside the restaurant.
[48:59] The bar is right kind of in the side of the particular store there and that's where you
[49:04] would purchase an alcoholic beverage ticket to your seat. You could potentially sit there
[49:09] But fun fact, nobody on the age of 21 is allowed to sell at a bar, whether they're drinking
[49:14] or not.
[49:15] But you can walk around the store too drinking, right?
[49:18] So my point is you're going to have more alcohol being consumed, so are you guys going
[49:22] to have security?
[49:23] So you're asking now also to have small accounts of alcohol being sold, single accounts, single
[49:27] accounts of alcohol, are you going to have security now, more security, maybe, in the store
[49:33] that possibly can be in the parking lot, watching the parking lot, that's my concern now because
[49:39] because you're going to have more people.
[49:41] And you know, especially right now,
[49:43] it's hot outside.
[49:44] People are going to consume more alcohol.
[49:46] And you know, little tippers get flared
[49:48] as someone backs up their car,
[49:50] and someone's cussing at somebody
[49:51] because they backed into somebody
[49:52] or just because they're trying to walk
[49:54] and somebody backs up.
[49:55] So my point is now you guys are going to consume more alcohol
[49:58] that's what you're asking us to let you do.
[50:00] And you're asking us to give you single cans.
[50:03] Are we going to have security controlling all of this now?
[50:06] To go along with all of this.
[50:08] to control the problem that may occur.
[50:12] So, the North-Key Gonzalez stores, if there becomes any types of problems, we haven't
[50:20] hesitated to hire and bring on security people.
[50:23] We don't believe that the activity that we're seeing in Costa Mesa, if we brought that concept
[50:29] here, wouldn't necessitate the idea of having a full-time security guard.
[50:33] However, if operationally we start having some problems, we're not going to hesitate
[50:37] because as I mentioned to you before, the fastest way to drive customers away is make them feel uncomfortable out in the parking lot and they just quit coming.
[50:45] Have you been out to this Northgate to see what clientele is around it right now, though, because you're against the railroad tracks.
[50:53] The one in Costa Mesa is not against the railroad tracks. This one has a lot of homeless that are around that area.
[51:00] And like she said, right there by the recycling center, they're constantly there.
[51:04] So I'm not saying the client tell that comes in out of the market because let me tell you there are great people that go
[51:09] out of the market eye shop there, but there are times I will walk out of that market and let me tell you the city
[51:15] characters that walk up to us begging for money are not very good people and we need people in that
[51:21] parking lot as well as now that alcohol is going to be sold inside the market and man's going to come out of that
[51:26] market somebody's going to say something to his wife or girlfriend and things are going to happen and that's
[51:31] That's what I'm asking.
[51:32] Is there going to be security now that people are going to be consuming alcohol in the
[51:37] store?
[51:38] There are plans to have security there right now.
[51:41] My point to you is that if the security that we're providing now is not adequate, we will
[51:47] certainly add security there, but we do intend to have security on the premises.
[51:54] Again, your points are valid.
[51:57] We don't want that activity and sometimes it does take that extra measure to have security.
[52:03] We understand the location of the store by the tracks, we understand that there's a unhoused population very nearby.
[52:10] However, we're choosing to make an additional $10 million investment into that location because we believe in this community and that's not deterring this.
[52:20] I know a lot of the retailers that would not be making this investment, given some of
[52:27] that.
[52:28] But this company is dedicated to this community, we're dedicated to running a great operation.
[52:33] We are providing security, and if more security is necessary, we will certainly add to that.
[52:40] And those of the assurances I can give you, your points are very, very valid.
[52:44] And I think that Norwalk is certainly, I look around and there's so much new development just walking by the City Hall and seeing the pretty pictures here.
[52:54] And you've got somebody like Northgate on a different part of town making another investment.
[53:00] This town is really alive and I think that's a compliment to planning commissioners and obviously your city manager and your planning department.
[53:09] And again, we're happy to make the investment.
[53:12] And we're just asking for a little bit of ability
[53:15] to kind of run the business the way it would like to.
[53:22] If I recall, the recycling center was in the back
[53:25] and you guys moved it to the front
[53:27] because you had so many issues
[53:29] because I was on planning when that got moved
[53:33] in the front corner.
[53:35] It was in the back by the, it was in the back
[53:38] and you moved it towards the front
[53:40] because of all the issues that you had because there was a big discussion over where the how to block that off and keep people from getting into your dumpsters at the time.
[53:50] So it's been moved to my knowledge. Is that right?
[53:54] I recall commissioners. I just want to point out that the existing recycling is to the left of the main entrance and is towards the end.
[54:06] But towards the street, towards the corner, but in the back, but in the back, and it's, it isn't enclosed.
[54:12] You used to be in the back.
[54:14] They moved.
[54:15] Yes.
[54:16] Yes.
[54:16] They wanted to see it for the street, but it used to be in the back.
[54:19] It is safer.
[54:20] And that's why you've been.
[54:21] And there was a reason for moving that.
[54:22] Exactly.
[54:23] But I can say that there was a problem.
[54:24] There was a problem.
[54:25] We moved it.
[54:26] Yeah.
[54:26] We're proactive about policing it and trying to reduce the issues out there.
[54:30] So it did get moved because of issues.
[54:32] Also, I would like to point out that for the self of any alcoholics, beverages for
[54:39] off-site consumption, as staff are creating a specific condition or approval, it is on
[54:44] page 11, it says that the self of any alcoholic beverages for off-site consumption on premises
[54:52] is prohibited.
[54:53] And appropriate science, both inside and outside establishment, the study in the drinking
[54:59] on the premises is prohibited by large while be posted.
[55:06] So commission, a couple of things.
[55:08] Number one, Nancy can speak to the recycling center.
[55:11] And number two, there are very robust conditions of approval in this series of entitlements.
[55:18] We work very closely with public safety, I should say, to make sure that from monitoring to signage,
[55:27] that their conditions were as robust as they possibly could be.
[55:33] So we're confident that this can be managed, should anything arise.
[55:37] And I think Nancy can speak to the recycling center.
[55:40] Yes, the recycling center in our research for the previous item we brought to you last month,
[55:47] the other recycling center, that recycling center on site does have an active business license with the city.
[55:57] I just know it was close to the road track, originally, and it was a big deal when we approved that because some people did not want to have it be seen from the street.
[56:07] So it was somewhat controversial, but we said, yes, let's move it. It's a safer place. It's a better, you know, and it's fine.
[56:14] But that's the reason we had to move is because we did have some problems.
[56:17] I do have another question.
[56:19] You guys want to begin sales of alcohol, serving alcohol services at 7 a.m. on the weekends?
[56:26] Isn't that awfully early to be doing alcohol services?
[56:29] Well, we would just like the flexibility to be able to do that.
[56:33] Obviously, if we don't have any customers, there are any need for it, we're probably not.
[56:39] But, you know, we find that Saturday and Sunday mornings are active there.
[56:42] as I mentioned on Sundays, we are very active there and you know things like
[56:49] mimosas can be very popular type of drink. I don't think that you're going
[56:53] to have people you know necessarily bloody marries and mimosas are sometimes
[56:59] very popular so yeah and weekends we would like the flexibility to be able to
[57:04] do that if the need we see some business.
[57:10] Any other questions?
[57:13] I just have one
[57:14] And then so the AB type, 47 license, that basically gives us all the information that
[57:19] he just said.
[57:20] Basically that covers everything from, you know, the no alcohol beverages shall sell, you
[57:24] know, for people on the 21 and all that.
[57:27] But I think it's very detailed information and if there is something that arises, we can
[57:32] bring it back to the table and then we can work on that moving forward if something twists
[57:36] to happen.
[57:37] My other question is, I do see the conditions of approval, so it does say, you know, the
[57:41] offside alcohol cells, entertainment, and security.
[57:44] So one of them was that you said you guys do have security.
[57:47] Is there going to be additional security?
[57:48] So like for instance, one of the questions that was asked
[57:51] is if you guys start selling alcohol at seven o'clock,
[57:54] is that security going to be there available at 6 a.m.?
[57:57] So that was my question because we want to make sure
[58:00] that it is on here and it's indicated
[58:03] that there's additional security.
[58:40] Okay, thank you.
[58:41] Yeah, because I noticed that the area where the image was at
[58:43] is right outside the front on the right hand side of the entrance, so I just wanted to ask
[58:48] that question because I did see that, you know, additional security would be added.
[58:52] Thank you, and I'm looking forward to it.
[58:57] Perfect.
[58:57] Thank you very much.
[58:58] All right.
[58:59] So now we will hear anyone in the audience in favor of
[59:05] wishing to speak.
[59:07] I've seen none.
[59:09] We will ask if there's anyone in opposition of in the audience.
[59:14] Okay, I've seen none and staff were there any public comments in favor that were received
[59:23] prior to this meeting and was there any I'm sorry and was there any public comments in
[59:29] opposition and we see all right okay so at this point I'll declare the public testimony
[59:36] and we'll bring it back to the discussion back to the Planning Commission and we'll ask again, Commissioner Macias, do you have any further questions or comments?
[59:47] No, at this time, everything was answered. Thank you.
[59:49] In commission of Rinalo Salas?
[59:51] None at the time, they were all right.
[59:53] Thank you.
[59:54] All right, and I again, thank you for all of your questions.
[1:00:00] Thank you for your time and investment in our community, and I look forward to this. I'm also a regular shopper at your store, and I enjoy it. Like I said, today, without any enhancements, I think it's a wonderful place to shop. And so does, I think about every resident in North because that parking lot is packed seven days a week, super popular. So congratulations on that. All right. With that, I'll take a motion.
[1:00:25] I move to adopt Resolution No. 26-11 to approve Director Approval Request, No. 2026-09,
[1:00:34] subject to the conditions of approval containing Exhibit A and adopt Resolution No. 26-12 to approve
[1:00:41] conditional use permit No. 2026-04, subject to conditions of approval containing Exhibit A and
[1:00:50] consider and find the project is exempt from the California Environmental Act, Quality
[1:00:55] Act, CEQA, Guidelines pursuant to Section 515301, Class 1, Existing Facilities.
[1:01:03] Oh, seconded.
[1:01:05] All right, we have a motion of second.
[1:01:07] Can I have a roll call, please?
[1:01:08] The mission of my CS?
[1:01:10] Aye.
[1:01:11] The mission of the Nono Salad?
[1:01:12] Aye.
[1:01:13] Yeah, Abu Daga.
[1:01:14] Aye.
[1:01:15] All right.
[1:01:15] Thank you.
[1:01:19] All right.
[1:01:20] Public hearing to consider its own change number 2026-01.
[1:01:24] Ruth, public notice information please?
[1:01:27] Yeah, Apadaca and members of the Planning Commission.
[1:01:30] On July the 30th, notice of this public hearing was mailed
[1:01:34] to the seven properties and their respective property owners,
[1:01:39] posted at the cities, three designated posting sites,
[1:01:43] and published in the Norbok Patriot on July 31st.
[1:01:46] As of today, no response has been addressed.
[1:01:52] Thank you, Ruth. Staff report, please.
[1:01:56] Thank you. We will have our senior planner, Gabriel Salazar, present.
[1:02:13] Good evening, Chair and members of the Planning Commission.
[1:02:16] We had him before you as zone change number 2026-01.
[1:02:22] This
[1:02:26] is a city initiated request to amend the zoning map to correct the zoning as R1, not C1 due
[1:02:34] to a typographical error for assessor partial numbers 807019-036, 8070-036, 8070-036, 8070-0306,
[1:02:55] 8070-024-007, 8070-024-008, and last, 8070-024-009.
[1:03:11] This slide provides some background information.
[1:03:15] The automobile parking zone was established in 1959.
[1:03:19] It served as a buffer for incompatible land uses, but also limited construction and development
[1:03:24] due to its setback requirements.
[1:03:25] The automobile parking zone, also called the P zone, was removed by the Norfolk Municipal Code and the zoning map in 2024.
[1:03:34] The purpose of the removal of the P zone was to eliminate land use barriers and facilitate development.
[1:03:45] This slide provides a background to the chronology of the actions taken by the Planning Commission and the City Council in 2023 or towards the end of 2023.
[1:03:55] October 11, 2023, the Planning Commission considered an adopted resolution number 23-28 and
[1:04:01] resolution number 23-29 to recommend approval to the City Council the removal of the
[1:04:06] P zone. The City Council subsequently adopted ordinance number 23-1744 and 1N 23-1745 to remove
[1:04:16] Remove the P zone from the North Municipal Code and the Zoning Map.
[1:04:23] In early 2026, staff recognized a discrepancy in the Zoning Map for D7 parcels, also called
[1:04:32] the affected parcels.
[1:04:34] Basically, the proposed Zoning for said parcels was to match the underlying general plan
[1:04:39] line designation as R1, but due to a typographical error, there was zone C1.
[1:04:45] The
[1:04:48] zone change 2020-6-01 is proposed to correct the zoning for these affected parcels and accurately reflect the actions taken by the
[1:04:55] Planning Commission and City Council in 2023.
[1:05:00] This slide before you provides a table of the aforementioned parcels, along with their
[1:05:07] assessor partial number, their address if they have an address, the general plan, land use designation, the zoning that was part of the
[1:05:15] Exhibit back then in 2023 was C1 as you can see on that third to last column and then in the fourth column from left to right is the actual zoning that there was supposed to be, which was supposed to be our one single family residential.
[1:05:35] This slide shows the exhibit of the zone change and zoning texted from from 2023 on the left hand shown shows the green area which was the P zone that was removed on the right hand side shows the slide.
[1:05:51] How these were designated at C1 and this next slide here shows how they were supposed to be designated as R1 single family residential
[1:06:00] So that's why we're here tonight to correct that error on the zoning map
[1:06:04] And then before you as our staff recommendation that the planning commission adopt resolution number 26-13
[1:06:14] To recommend approval to the City Council for zone change number 2026-01 and to consider and find that the project is
[1:06:21] an example of SQL pursuant to SQL guidelines section 15061, B3, the common sense exemption.
[1:06:28] Staff is here to answer any questions.
[1:06:30] Thank you.
[1:06:31] All right.
[1:06:32] Thank you.
[1:06:33] Does the commission have any questions for staff?
[1:06:36] All right.
[1:06:37] The public hearing is now open and we're going to open it and we'll be heard in the following
[1:06:43] order.
[1:06:43] Those in favor, those opposed.
[1:06:44] So, let's go ahead and we'll ask staff whether any public comments in favor that were received prior to this meeting?
[1:06:54] And was chased.
[1:06:55] Okay, is there anyone in the audience who is in favor?
[1:06:59] See, no one in our audience, so I'll bring that back.
[1:07:02] Staff, were there any public comments in opposition that were received prior to this meeting?
[1:07:07] And there is no one in attendance in front of me.
[1:07:09] So at this point, I will declare the public testimony closed and I will bring it back to the Planning Commission.
[1:07:18] We'll start with Commissioner Macias. Any questions, comments?
[1:07:21] No, none.
[1:07:22] All right, Commissioner Vanola Salis.
[1:07:25] None.
[1:07:25] And I have none either, so I will entertain a motion.
[1:07:29] I move to adopt resolution number 26-13 to recommend approval to the City Council for
[1:07:37] For zone change number 2026-01, I recommend City Council adapt a categorical exemption for
[1:07:46] the zone change pursuant to California Environmental Quality Act sequel, Guidelines Section 150-61-B
[1:07:53] and 3, in that it can be seen with the certainty that there is no possibility that the activity
[1:07:58] in the question may have a significant effect on the environment.
[1:08:03] Okay, so we have a motion to second roll call please.
[1:08:07] Commissioner Mattias.
[1:08:10] Aye.
[1:08:10] Commissioner Nona Salas.
[1:08:12] Aye.
[1:08:12] Yeah, Apagaca.
[1:08:13] Aye.
[1:08:15] All right.
[1:08:16] Is there anyone wishing to speak under oral communications?
[1:08:21] Don't see anybody there.
[1:08:23] Do you want any comments from?
[1:08:26] And staff, do you have any comments?
[1:08:29] No comments.
[1:08:29] Thank you very much.
[1:08:30] All right, very good. There being no further business this meeting is now adjourned.