[0:00] Oh, very
>> perfect.
[0:03] » Okay.
>> Okay.
[0:05] » It is 5:01 p.m. We have a quorum of 11
people and I'm going to call this
[0:12] meeting to order. My name is Lily
Tryman. I am the town clerk and until we
[0:16] elect a chair and a vice chair, I am in
charge of this meeting. Um, the first
[0:22] order on our agenda tonight is to elect
a chair. Would anybody like to nominate
[0:27] someone for the position of chair? I
would like to nominate Cheryl Lindsley.
[0:32] » Is there a second for that nomination?
>> No second needed.
[0:35] » Oh, no second. Thank you for keeping me
honest and straight about rules of
[0:39] procedure.
>> Why is there no second meeting?
[0:43] » Because Robert's rule says no second
needed when you nominate an office.
[0:48] » It's select board has done it that way.
Right, Matt? I think we
[0:52] » Anybody else want to nominate anyone
else for the position of chair?
[0:58] Seeing no other nominations, we need to
do a roll call vote because we have an
[1:03] online presence today. So Kristen, could
you please lead us off?
[1:07] » Yes.
>> Uh Matt,
[1:10] » yes.
>> Yep.
[1:11] » Going around.
>> Yes.
[1:13] » Y
>> I'm a yes.
[1:15] » Yep.
>> Yes.
[1:17] » Yes.
>> That is unanimous. And now I'm gonna
[1:19] hand it over to you for the vice chair.
>> Okay. So, I would like to accept any
[1:24] nominations available for vice chair
position. Anybody like to nominate
[1:29] someone?
>> I'll nominate Pam Smith for vice chair.
[1:34] » Thank you.
[1:37] Anybody else wish to nominate anyone for
vice chair?
[1:43] Okay, seeing none, uh, how do we vote?
Matt,
[1:46] » yes.
>> Elix,
[1:48] » yes.
>> Emily,
[1:49] » yes.
>> Yes.
[1:52] Yes.
>> Yes. I
[1:56] » Oh, yes. Don't because we don't have a
quorum.
[1:58] » It's a the quorum a majority of those
present.
[2:02] » Okay. Good. And
>> Kristen
[2:04] » Kristen.
>> Yes.
[2:07] » Okay. So, we now have a chair and a vice
chair. So,
[2:12] agenda is to review and approve the
agenda.
[2:16] Is there any changes being offered on
the agenda? Any changes? If not, I'll
[2:22] take a motion to approve it.
>> Second. Thank you.
[2:29] » Hang on.
>> Second.
[2:33] Do you have a
[2:37] » sorry
[2:41] » to approve the agenda as submitted and
Ernie seconded that?
[2:47] Any discussion?
Seeing none, I'll um I'll do the roll
[2:51] call. Matt,
>> yes.
[2:55] » Emily,
>> sorry.
[2:56] » Okay, I'm calling all the names. Carlin,
>> Lily,
[2:59] » yes.
>> Ernie, yes. Pam,
[3:02] » David, Cheryl, yes. Okay,
[3:07] » I thought I Oh, she it was the owl, not
>> sorry.
[3:12] » All right, so we've done that. On to the
next item, which is the approval of the
[3:16] minutes for January 6th, 2025. our last
meeting and they were sent out by town
[3:24] clerk.
>> Everybody's had a chance to review them.
[3:29] Does anybody have any edits that they
noted?
[3:35] » I don't have a copy of the agenda.
>> Okay. Elix made a motion to approve the
[3:39] minutes.
>> I'll second.
[3:40] » Pam Smith second.
Okay. Any further discussion? Matt, how
[3:45] do you vote? Um, if I wasn't there, I
wasn't part of these minutes. Can I
[3:49] still
wasn't part of
[3:55] » So,
we can see how it goes.
[4:03] » I think it's your comfort level.
>> Okay.
[4:07] » Yes.
>> Emily, yes.
[4:11] » Yes. and that
>> David.
[4:16] » Okay. So, we only have one abstension
now.
[4:21] » So, the uh minutes are approved
and we can get those finalized by some
[4:29] time in December. Great.
>> Okay. according to the rules of
[4:34] procedure.
Uh the meeting uh the um abatement
[4:38] meeting has been called to order already
by the town clerk at the beginning. Um
[4:46] the
abatement hearing is for
[4:52] Judith Van
>> D
[4:55] » D. Miller who lives at 177 New Boston
Road in Norwich. And the partial ID
[5:01] number is 10-113.0000.
[5:07] I would like to ask the individual here
with us um does she have the paperwork
[5:12] you needed for
>> Okay. Thank you for bringing that just
[5:16] to raise your hand and take the
following oath please. That under the
[5:19] pains and penalties of purge solemnly
swear that the evidence you give in the
[5:25] cause under consideration shall be the
whole truth and nothing but the truth.
[5:30] Thank you. Miss document for her to see
it.
[5:33] » She has it.
>> She has it. Okay, great.
[5:37] » Sounds like the doorbell rang.
>> Yeah, I chemo is here.
[5:40] » Okay.
>> The witness.
[5:42] » Yes.
[5:47] » All right. The next item under the
procedures is to request that are any
[5:52] members here any conflict of interest?
Does anyone have a conflict of interest
[5:55] or any exparte communication that has
taken place with the opponent?
[6:04] » Seeing none. All right. And I'll ask the
appellent if you have received the rules
[6:09] of procedure and you understand them.
Any questions?
[6:12] » Okay. Great.
Well, from there we go right on to
[6:16] asking you to identify the statutory
abatement category and your request for
[6:21] abatement.
And you have about 10 minutes or less.
[6:27] » Yes, ma'am.
>> We can do that. Sure. Would that be
[6:31] helpful to everybody? Sure. Let's go
around and introduce ourselves and how
[6:35] we're part of the board of abatement in
the town of Norwich. Matt, I'm going to
[6:39] start
>> public justice of the peace.
[6:44] facility.
>> Suzanne Lighter, Justice
[6:48] Corin Johnson,
>> Lily Chryman, town clerk and board of
[6:52] abatement clerk. Cheryl Lindberg, I am
treasurer and blister Kelly. Listister
[6:58] and JP
[7:01] » Dave Kriml, justice of the peace.
>> Thank you. El
[7:04] » Christ, justice of the peace. [laughter]
>> Teemo Greg's select board member.
[7:12] » Perfect. Now we've done everyone
>> I think so. Yeah.
[7:14] » Okay. Great. So now please proceed.
>> Okay. Amy Everheart. I'm Judy Miller's
[7:21] daughter. Um she and I represented her
quarter here. And um so the I guess the
[7:28] story is we paid our what we thought
were our taxes in September duties
[7:32] taxes. Um and then my prior to that my
father died about a year ago. So their
[7:40] taxes were filed for abstension and we
finally got them filed not until
[7:48] September based on through the ordeal of
the death. Um so when the taxes were
[7:54] filed in September I understand that
there was not an extension made on the
[7:58] homestead act we didn't have any idea
about that. Um, and so when we paid our
[8:06] normage taxes in September, we then got
a late fee in October saying that we
[8:11] hadn't paid our full taxes, which was
not our intention. Um, so then I filed a
[8:16] request to say we thought we paid our
taxes and then we got a fee saying we
[8:21] didn't pay the full amount because you
filed for an extension, but you didn't
[8:27] actually know what.
>> So I think one one I just interrupt
[8:31] quickly. the one piece, it's the HS122
form that doesn't get extended with the
[8:37] extension of a tax return. So, by not
filing that on April 15th or before that
[8:43] when it finally gets filed is late filed
and that's what created the penalty.
[8:49] » Yeah. And so that's the part that um was
news to us and I I don't know whether
[8:55] the tax accountant should have been the
person to tell us that or whether the
[8:58] town should have told us that. No, it's
part of the forms [clears throat] for
[9:02] anybody's tax return. So, it's in the
directions that says, you know, you if
[9:07] you can extend your return, but you may
not extend the HS122 filing.
[9:11] » Yeah.
>> So, that has to be done by April 15th or
[9:14] whatever that date is right around there
that the state asks.
[9:17] » Yeah. So it's
>> so in her case I guess there wasn't
[9:20] there wasn't ability to do that if
>> if our child was late um due to the
[9:25] death because you know figuring out
where the information was if my parents
[9:30] and [clears throat] my mother doesn't
live there moved her to assisted living.
[9:35] So, there was a bit of paperwork that
was
[9:37] » Yeah, we had a scrambling going.
>> Yeah, I I guess I should have done that,
[9:41] but I have not asked her whether she
knew that or why she didn't
[9:46] probably should have had before this
meeting, I guess. But I don't know why
[9:49] she didn't that. Nevertheless, she
didn't file for September. We got news
[9:54] that we were late. Was not our intention
to do that. Um, and we ask that the town
[9:59] wave those%
I think and then the additional 1% that
[10:05] slate as of now. I would like to pay
what you
[10:09] » sure that just wondering if they would
wave the the fee because it wasn't a bit
[10:16] of a problem getting over there.
>> So, did you um identify a category for
[10:22] your abatement that you wanted us to use
for the request? I I didn't see a
[10:27] written
>> thing other than what Brennan sent.
[10:30] » Brennan just sent the hardship.
>> The hardship
[10:32] » hardship. Yeah.
>> I guess that's was
[10:35] » a homestead penalty based on hardship
that nobody came to.
[10:38] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. It says here's hardship in the
[10:40] case of the death of her spouse which
came from Bren.
[10:48] » So the appeal is a hardship or not.
I think in the statute does it have
[10:56] » identify
>> you don't when it's a hardship on the
[10:59] homestead penalty you don't have to that
that is the basis for the
[11:03] » okay
>> that's when it's coming to abatement
[11:05] rather than for the lister it is right
>> there's none of the statutory reasons
[11:11] need apply just the hardship based on
the
[11:14] » death okay I can I can understand that
all right and anything else you want to
[11:20] share before we ask for any questions
that people might have.
[11:25] » I think that's it. Yeah, we'd like to
pay the full amount,
[11:30] » but request that the penalty be waved.
Yeah, understood. Okay,
[11:35] » so I'll look around for anybody that
have a question.
[11:38] » Just just what is the penalty?
[11:50] » Yeah. And the total now is over 800
something that is owed. I think I
[11:59] » So what we're looking at right now is
the amount that was in the
[12:04] » amount as of October 14
because of
[12:08] » 41828 was the penalty for the late
filing of the HS122.
[12:14] » I will add one other thing was that we
got two different bills. So after we
[12:18] were late, we then got one bill and we
got another bill. Um so I didn't come
[12:22] right in with because I didn't know
which bill to pay. Um and then since
[12:27] then we filed with you to prove that be
be reduced. So I don't actually we we
[12:33] clarified on email which one it was, but
we did receive two different bills which
[12:37] sort of added to the confusion. It does
because what happened was you went from
[12:41] a nonh homestead tax rate which is lower
in Norwich. Yeah. Then the homestead tax
[12:46] rate which is was on the revised bill.
So you now are build as a homestead. So
[12:53] that's a higher tax rate
>> than the non and then you got the
[12:56] penalty was assigned as well.
>> So the additional taxes are due
[13:01] » for the homestead rate
>> right
[13:04] » calculation. I think it may have been
calculated
[13:08] » time. So one once on October 2nd and
then again on October
[13:15] right after that. Um will she receive a
revised tax bill once the decision is
[13:21] made if we decide to remove this
penalty? Does she get a a revised tax
[13:26] bill?
>> Yes.
[13:28] » Okay. So that would give a final amount.
>> Okay.
[13:32] » Yeah. [clears throat] I think that would
I have I have all the bills but that
[13:36] would be useful because I don't actually
know which one it is at this point.
[13:39] » Okay.
>> Right. So if there's any other
[13:43] um delay in payment that created a 1%
interest amount that's not what we would
[13:49] be addressing here today that I'm aware
of. We're just addressing the the
[13:53] penalty for the late filing of the HSN.
>> So there's no because it's November. I
[13:59] was hoping to pay it right away, but
because it's November, it's now 2%, I
[14:03] believe. Is that right, Carol?
>> Well, it's 1% a month.
[14:06] » 1% per each month.
>> For each month for the first three
[14:09] months, right, on that first payment.
>> Yeah. Right.
[14:12] » That that be waved as well because I was
I would be happy to paid it in October
[14:17] 1st. Um I was just waiting for this
meeting to happen before I knew how
[14:21] much.
>> So the So both things, the two 1% bills
[14:27] plus the
the the 4% of the homestead that
[14:32] » is that a delivery discussion.
[14:36] » I guess it is.
>> I think it is.
[14:40] » I mean, you're ch you're essentially
we've been looking at this as the 4%
[14:44] penalty abatement is what's before us.
Whether that can change now in in your
[14:50] request, we to deliberate on that after
the meeting and decide. Okay.
[14:55] » Isn't the interest part of the penalty?
>> No.
[14:59] No, the interest is a separate
calculation from the 4% late file
[15:04] penalty which is what was in front of us
today.
[15:08] » But wouldn't it be on the difference
between the homestead and the non-h
[15:11] homestead rates that the percent 1% is
on that difference in the tax
[15:16] amount because of the change of
category?
[15:19] » No, there's not a penalty
for
[15:24] so your first bill is at the non-h
homestead rate lower. right
[15:28] » now. You get the penalty for the filing
late and then you get your revised tax
[15:34] bill. To my knowledge, there is no no
interest calculation done at that
[15:40] moment.
>> But then when interest [clears throat]
[15:42] does come along, it's only on the
additional taxes due at the home
[15:47] » that first payment, right? So let's say
it was $200 more was due from non-h
[15:52] homestead to homestead. Then the
calculation is 4% on the education taxes
[15:59] [clears throat]
and then the payment would be set for a
[16:03] payment date which you should make sure
you you know you come in and and address
[16:08] the payment date with finance and then
you would know to pay the additional
[16:13] amount and avoid an interest charge
>> by that that new due date when interest
[16:20] would then be charged again. So, I think
that's what I believe is the way it
[16:25] would work. Um, because your revised
bill is really taking you from
[16:29] non-homestead to homestead. That's the
main leap.
[16:33] » And then you got to then you have to pay
that extra amount for the first payment.
[16:37] » Yeah.
>> To get caught up on the first payment.
[16:40] » So, there's going to be additional
payment due either way. And
[16:43] » and the February payment will flush out
to be the full homestead calculation.
[16:49] Yeah. Now, in your mom's case, there may
be a little bit of both nonhomestead and
[16:53] homestead.
>> Yeah.
[16:55] » Does do she have any rentals on her
property?
[16:58] » No. Okay. Then she won't. It'll be all
homestead.
[17:01] » Yeah. I I think the maybe this is just
not understanding it fully. So, we
[17:08] wouldn't have received a late fee at 1%
if we had we didn't intend to have that.
[17:13] We felt we're paying our bill. So to
have that be waved and then the second
[17:18] one I didn't pay because I was waiting
for this meeting. So those two things
[17:22] were sort of I guess they guess my fault
if I should have come in and pay them
[17:26] but I was thinking that they were also
iron out the 4% because those are not
[17:31] related to me not paying the original
one.
[17:35] So and that could be amended as
>> so may I just find out did you make the
[17:40] first payment on time?
>> Yes.
[17:44] » Yeah. And that was the the tax bill we
received. We paid our
[17:48] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. But then we received an amended
[17:50] one October 3rd.
>> And we did have not paid that one
[17:54] because that's the one we were agreeing
to based on the
[17:57] » So it's my understanding that you have
30 days from a revised tax bill to pay
[18:02] the new amount. That would be my
understanding because that's the normal
[18:06] amount of time a taxpayer has to pay the
original property tax bill first
[18:12] payment. 30 days from the date of
mailing. The second payment is due in
[18:16] February, which is way more than 30 days
ahead of schedule. So, that's my
[18:21] understanding of it. So, I guess when
you got the revised bill, you had 30
[18:25] days to catch up that first payment was
what you had.
[18:28] » But then, and maybe it was me
misunderstanding, but we were grieving
[18:31] that payment,
>> which is why it
[18:37] » No, you're not grieving the payment of
the taxes because the taxes
[18:40] » Oh, but it was unclear which which one
was which because it's the total bill is
[18:45] $81 which is partly this
>> penalty
[18:48] » this penalty.
>> Yes.
[18:49] » So that that the bill that came to me
included all and I did not go in and say
[18:55] I'll pay part of it. I wait I was
waiting I was thinking I was waiting
[18:58] till the end of this meeting to
determine what do I pay and then I pay
[19:01] it.
>> Yeah.
[19:02] » So that I guess is my question. How can
we lump them all together and figure
[19:06] that out?
>> Yeah. Yeah,
[19:08] » I think part of the 801 though is that
new homestead rate. So I would like to
[19:14] understand if you have a number of how
much was charged for just the interest,
[19:20] the 1% interest.
>> I don't have that clearly. I do have the
[19:24] bills that there is interest, but maybe
I think I share a little probably know
[19:29] better, but I've got I have two bills
that were said um an 803 sent on the 2nd
[19:36] of October and an 811 sent on the 3rd of
November, but they're they don't um
[19:43] there's a principle and an interest. So,
they don't to me it doesn't
[19:47] differentiate what my fees are versus
803 to 811. That's about $8. 1% of
[19:55] » 1%. So that second 1% though.
>> So we're we may be only talking $8 or
[20:00] $16.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[20:05] » Elite says there's a hand up.
>> If you're non homestead, I hear home. If
[20:10] you're not homestead, I hear homestead.
Can someone clarify for me? Was it
[20:15] originally home? And now what's the
difference? Why would it change?
[20:19] » Yes, I can explain that. So when they
received their first tax bill, their
[20:23] HS1, her HS122 was not filed.
So she was build at the nonhomestead tax
[20:31] rate. As soon as the accountant put
through the paperwork in September,
[20:38] it triggered the tax return being filed
and the accountant included the HS122 at
[20:45] that point that needed to be filed on
April 15th. Period. So then the tax bill
[20:51] that came out based on this new filing
of the HS122 took her from nonh
[20:59] homestead over to homestead
>> was a higher higher amount now
[21:03] » higher tax rate
>> tax rate but what's a nonh homestead
[21:07] than what's a homestead
>> like percentage
[21:10] » so if it's your second house if it's
your second house in Norwich and you're
[21:14] not living there as your primary
residence that's a nonh homestead if you
[21:18] live in your house and you live there
most of the year. That's your homestead
[21:22] and you pay that rate.
>> It's your principal dwelling.
[21:27] [clears throat]
>> But in this case, your mom's an assisted
[21:29] living. She has since moved in but not
>> this was as of April 1st of 2025 that
[21:35] this is asking for that HS122
as of April.
[21:40] » The taxes were she was not a homestead.
So it was a lower tax and then the
[21:45] revision was a higher tax. No,
>> I get that part, but I'm trying to
[21:49] understand the difference.
>> Okay.
[21:50] » Yeah.
>> Okay, fair enough.
[21:52] » So, the error came with us not filing on
time partly because we get all things.
[22:01] » Okay, good discussion on everything.
Anybody
[22:06] have a further question?
>> Anybody online have a question?
[22:10] » Anybody Oh, is anybody online? I'm
hoping Lily's watching those folks.
[22:13] Anybody have a question?
No, they see me have the
[22:18] » chemo. No,
>> no.
[22:22] » Okay, thanks.
>> Yep.
[22:24] » All right. Well, if there are no further
questions, then I thank you for coming
[22:28] and we will close the hearing. We will
deliberate afterwards tonight
[22:32] » and we will send you our decision within
30 days.
[22:36] » Okay, great. So, do I pay my bills?
[22:43] You know,
It's probably good to check in with the
[22:48] finance office and see where you can
catch up on things to avoid anything
[22:51] further. And by the way, as an aside,
anytime you overpay, it going to get
[22:56] credited to the February payment because
within the year. So if, for example, you
[23:01] now have overpaid because you might have
paid some of the penalty, it'll get
[23:04] credited to the February and it'll stay
on your on her account.
[23:09] » Yeah.
>> So I could come in and pay before I
[23:12] you're effect. You could
>> and to clarify if it gets taken out of
[23:18] the February bill she would she get a
new February bill for clarifying or she
[23:23] actually
>> Yep. Yep. She'll have a new bill. Yes.
[23:27] To look at and know that
[23:32] » do they actually print a new bill or
does she contact finance and ask them
[23:36] what what is the final number?
If so, the decision we make tonight will
[23:43] be determining whether there's a revised
tax bill or not. Correct. Correct.
[23:46] » So, we're getting into territory. We
need to move, you know, finish up the
[23:50] meeting and then discuss.
>> So, the [clears throat] next fee would
[23:53] come December 1st.
>> I should pay it before that. That right?
[23:58] » Say that again.
>> The next 1% would come on December 1st.
[24:01] » Well, I'm not sure the calculation date,
but it sounds like that would be the
[24:05] typical one. Although again, as I said
earlier, with a revised tax bill, I
[24:10] would have thought somebody had 30 days
from the issuance of the bill to make
[24:14] that payment
>> without additional interest being
[24:18] charged.
>> Now, I realize I'm not in the finance
[24:21] office and I don't make those decisions,
but it just makes me think that's what
[24:26] should happen.
>> Okay.
[24:28] » But
>> great. Well, thank you.
[24:32] » Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. and
thank you for being here and helping us
[24:35] on this.
>> I can take both of us in sun pass,
[24:39] please. Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> All right. Um,
[24:46] » pass it down here.
>> So, I will um
[24:51] » Yeah,
>> you told me an excellent story about a
[24:55] monkey on a ship once.
>> Oh, yeah. I'm sure it didn't fall off
[24:58] the ship or something.
>> I think he killed it at some point or it
[25:01] was taken it was taken ashore and killed
is what I remember.
[25:05] » I remember
but I did like to tell it.
[25:09] » Okay. [laughter]
[25:13] » Yeah, that one. Wow. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Thanks so much.
[25:19] » So, is there a motion to adjurnn?
>> Motion to adjourn. So move
[25:25] » seconded.
>> Second
[25:27] » anybody that wants to hear a sec.
>> I got a leak.
[25:30] » Okay.
>> Anyway, um
[25:33] » so that's not debatable. Elix, how do
you vote?
[25:37] » Matt,
>> yes.
[25:39] » Emily,
>> yes.
[25:40] » Yes.
>> Yes. Corin and Lily.
[25:43] » Yes.
>> Cheryl, yes.
[25:46] » David,
>> yes.
[25:47] » Okay, close. It is
>> what time? 528
[25:51] » online
>> online and
[25:54] » yes
[laughter]
[25:58] » and Kristen shook her head there
>> I'm gonna stop the recording uh
[26:02] » we adjourn to
>> finish the