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This is just audio check online. Thank

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you.

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Um,

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well, at home you might have a secure

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one. So, it's really I mean, you're just

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accessing Sorry.

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Good evening everyone and welcome to our

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regularly scheduled council meeting for

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May the 26th. Uh I'm Kevin Murdoch the

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mayor of Oak Bay and it's my pleasure to

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welcome you all. Uh as we start our

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meeting, we just like to take some time

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to acknowledge that we are gathered on

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the traditional territories of the coast

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and straight Salish peoples and

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specifically we acknowledge the Lquangan

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people known today as the Songhes and

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Casapsum nations and how the connections

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to these lands and adjoining waters

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continues to this day. Uh up first in

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orders of business is approval of the

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agenda. Can have a mover and a seconder.

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Moved and seconded. Thank you. Any

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changes or amendments? No. All those in

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favor? Any opposed? Not opposed. We have

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adoption of minutes of May 12th, the 6

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and 7 p.m. Moved and seconded. Um any

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other

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discussion? Seeing none, all those in

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favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Uh we

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have received the committee minutes. Oh,

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I should just make a clarification um to

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Miss Plof on the council minutes. Uh

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there was a change there. Was that

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correction made in the um in the

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minutes? Uh yes, your worship. Yes, that

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was just the notice of motion wording

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was slightly off. So, thank you for

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changing that. Make sure we approve the

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right ones. Uh, and then moving to 4.1,

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which is committee of the whole minutes.

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Um, sorry, this is receipt of the

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minutes moved and seconded. All those in

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favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Uh, we

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have a rise and report. Uh, we don't

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need to do anything other than move the

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rise and report and move and second.

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Thank you. All those in favor? Any

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opposed? None opposed. If we get to move

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through some procedural things fairly

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quickly at the beginning of our

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meetings. Trust me, it'll slow down uh

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probably faster than you want. Um

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mayor's remarks. Uh I just want to

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express my appreciation to the

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organizers of the Oak Bay half marathon

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which happened on Sunday. Uh a great

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event. I think probably the most

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smileiest run I've I get to have a

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chance of attending. Um, I also just

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want to let people know a few weeks ago

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council uh supported an ask uh that was

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made by the view royal council uh asking

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the school district 61 to explore

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electoral area representation on school

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boards. Uh something they've agreed to

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do and have called their first meeting

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on that for the mayors of the various uh

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uh u communities that make up school

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district 61. So we'll see where that

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goes. It's early exploration time for

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that.

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Uh I want to just remind people that we

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have a community survey uh that's gone

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out and that's closing on July 2nd. So

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if there's um it went out with the tax

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notices and also with a mail

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notification. Um but you have until July

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2nd to provide that. That gives helps

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gives us some feedback as we go into uh

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priorities in the fall. Uh and we also

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have official community plan

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engagements. So two of uh inerson events

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have completed with great turnout. So

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thank you everybody who's made it. Um,

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but there's two more coming up this week

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as well. On Thursday at uh UIC and

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Saturday at the Windsor Pavilion. Uh, if

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you have the opportunity, it's worth

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going in person. There's a lot of really

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good uh panel boards and things to

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inform and uh and you can provide your

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feedback either in person or through a

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um through the online uh survey process

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as well. Um, but just I keep reiterating

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this to people. this is our chance to

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inform where uh and what kind and what

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shape of housing we want in our

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community. Um it's probably the the best

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chance we have to have that conversation

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in the next number of years. So we

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really do look for public input on that

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on that decision-m

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process. Um those are all the things

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directly related here. I just uh going

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to take a moment to do something I very

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very rarely do which is speaking on

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matters that are related to other levels

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of government. Um, but I just wanted to

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take a moment and just amplify uh some

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significant concerns raised by the unit

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of BC municipalities and quite a few

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others regarding the bills of 13 and 15

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that are uh sitting at the province

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right now. We're waiting approval in

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legislature. Um, and it's just really

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for awareness. The, uh, as described,

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there's a Vancouver Sun article a couple

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weeks ago, uh, which described bill 13,

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which was named the Miscellaneous

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Statutes Amendment Act, amends the

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Housing Supply Act, and the local

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government act to give the provincial

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government the power to nullify any

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municipal bylaw that conflicts with

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provincial housing mandates. So, that's

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zoning, subdivision controls, building

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permits, affordable housing provisions.

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There are all uh, they would all be

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subordinate to the provincial um, uh,

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input. And bill 15 probably has had more

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press, but it's noted same article, the

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infrastructure projects act allows the

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province to take over permitting for any

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infrastructure project deemed to be a

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provincial significance. Um, so

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obviously particularly in areas with a

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designated transit areas, it's

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essentially total provincial planning

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authority within those. So I raise it

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just um province has long had their

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right uh we delegated authority from the

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province to overrule municipalities uh

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in areas that they feel are critical. Um

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but that's been a public process and and

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clear um this essentially just enables

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the um bypass of local municipal

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knowledge and authority. Um

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theoretically under the community

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charter we uh these kind of changes are

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supposed to happen in consultation with

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municipalities but as the union of BC

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municipalities has noted um that

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consultation has not happened. Um I'm

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just raising it tonight just to raise

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awareness. I think a lot of these things

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bypass unnoticed. uh they are out of the

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realm of our authority obviously at the

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municipal level but I think uh for

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anybody interested in uh good governance

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they're probably of of probably some

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personal

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interest thank you that concludes my

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remarks I am now going to open it up for

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we have a section of the every council

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and committee of the whole meeting

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allowing for public input um this is for

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items not on the agenda this evening but

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items that might be of general interest

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to the community um so With that, I'm

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just going to invite uh we can if you're

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on the online application, you can raise

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your hand to speak to council. If you're

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uh in the room, you can just put up your

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hand and come

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forward. Please come

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forward.

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Oh, you can be our our demo here.

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There's Cochran. Uh so, yes, push the

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button in the middle to turn it on. Is

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it not turning on? We may have to turn

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turn the whole thing

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on. Oh, there we

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go. Uh, name, municipality of residence,

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and then you have up to three minutes.

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Thank you so much. My name is Heather

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Cochran. I am an Oak Bay resident, and

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I'm here to talk to you this evening

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about pedestrian safety at Windsor Park

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and in particular the need for a

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crosswalk. I have handed to the director

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of corporate services a map as a visual

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aid for my little presentation. And I've

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also handed up a petition with over 200

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signatures uh collected in just one

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week's time in favor of a crosswalk as

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well as other trafficcoming measures at

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Windsor Park. As you all know, I'm sure

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Windsor Park has a great new playground.

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It's home to expanded recreational

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facilities, licensed child care, soon to

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start up summer camps, sporting events.

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There's also a wonderful new ice cream

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shop across the street, as well as the

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Windsor Cafe. As my six-year-old child,

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sitting behind me, will attest, it is a

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child's dream come true. Except for one

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thing. There are no crosswalks anywhere

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around Windsor Park. There are not even

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curb cuts that would allow you to easily

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roll a stroller, a scooter, or a

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children's bike easily across the road.

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So instead, pedestrians need to contend

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with buses, traffic, trucks, and those

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raised curbs to access the park. I

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actually called the engineering

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department about this um last week and

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when I asked them if they considered

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putting in a crosswalk at Windsor Park,

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they told me that they didn't think

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there was any need because most people

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drive to Windsor Park and there's

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parking available on the playground side

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of the park, which is true that there's

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parking there and there's parking across

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the street, but it's this council's

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priority to encourage active

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transportation. And if you walk down to

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Windsor Park on a weekday evening or on

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a weekend, then as any parent of young

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children or other park user will attest,

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it's full of people who bike, walk,

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scooter, stroller down there, as well of

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course as dog walkers who make regular

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use of the park on foot and on paw.

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Um, so as I said, we started a petition

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to gauge whether it's just us or whether

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there's public support for this. And

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indeed, in just over one week between

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working and whatnot, we collected over

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200 signatures while Elliot very

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obligingly played on the playground. Um,

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and I chatted with other park users. Um,

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so as you'll know, pursuant to section 4

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sub 2 subc of the streets and traffic

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bylaw, council may designate crosswalks.

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And we would like to urge council to

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designate a crosswalk for Windsor Park,

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especially sooner rather than later

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before the summer season truly kicks in

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and we have more playground users and

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ice cream shop visitors who

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unfortunately have to dodge between

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those vehicles to access that. On the

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map that I've handed up, I've

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highlighted the playground in purple in

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the bottom left. Um, do you have the

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map? We do. Okay, thank you. Um, and

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I've shown the ice cream shop and cafe

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in orange in the top right. In red, I've

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shown where there's stall parking along

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one stretch of the north side of Windsor

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Park, but there's only a sidewalk, which

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I've shown in blue on the other side.

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So, even if you do drive to Windsor

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Park, there's not going to be a sidewalk

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to assist you on that side, and you'll

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still struggle to cross the road if you

269
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,200
choose to get something from the cafe.

270
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,880
So, again, I would urge council to at

271
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,440
least designate a crosswalk where I've

272
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,600
placed a yellow X on the map. I've also

273
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,679
shown in some kind of inset photos to

274
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,000
the best of my technological abilities

275
00:24:15,679 --> 00:24:20,000
what the view is like looking across

276
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,240
that paved pathway in front of Windsor

277
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,000
Park to the property across the street.

278
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,240
And we've got the owner of that property

279
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,039
here who's going to speak to you as well

280
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,480
um in support of this. Um and I would

281
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:32,080
suggest as well other trafficcoming

282
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,480
measures on other parts of the the

283
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,400
street or the around the park. So I'm

284
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,480
sure my three minutes is up. It's just 5

285
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,840
seconds over now. So thank you very much

286
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,000
background. Thanks so much for your

287
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,360
time. Thank you. Uh and certainly invite

288
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,919
the next person to come forward to

289
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:47,039
speak. I think I saw a hand at the one

290
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:50,480
in the front and one in the middle

291
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:52,159
second row, third row. I uh also want to

292
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,320
uh as you come forward uh just

293
00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:56,559
procedurally here, thank you for the

294
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,039
request. Uh just procedurally here we

295
00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:01,200
would consider perhaps uh notices a

296
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,400
motion uh at the in in under new

297
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,760
business at the end of our meeting. So

298
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,679
we don't at the um public input portion

299
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,159
have any motions arising at this point.

300
00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:11,120
So, just make that clear there in case

301
00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:12,400
anybody's wondering what we're doing

302
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,559
with these comments. I really do

303
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,039
appreciate your your your comments. Uh,

304
00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:19,440
welcome. Uh, thank you. Hello. My name

305
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:20,880
is Eric Zelka. I am an Oak Bay resident.

306
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,440
Um, is that the information you need

307
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,960
from me? That is it. Welcome, Mr. Zulka.

308
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,400
Thank you. Uh, first of all, let me

309
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,720
start my comments by saying God saved

310
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,440
the king. uh so pleased to see that uh

311
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:35,120
our sovereign is uh is uh in in the

312
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:36,880
country and I do note that uh the

313
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:38,880
picture of the of our head of state is

314
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,840
not on the wall. I took the liberty of

315
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,320
getting a copy uh of the latest official

316
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:49,520
version that if you'll allow me to give

317
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:51,600
to um our CEO uh for possible framing as

318
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,360
as council sees fit, I would very much

319
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,720
appreciate that. I certainly you could

320
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:57,360
give a gift to the district. I will let

321
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,039
you know, Mr. Zelka that we did uh put a

322
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,880
request in and receive our official

323
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:04,240
portrait and it's just in the process of

324
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,440
being framed for this room. So, I'm not

325
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,279
sure what we're going to where that's

326
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,279
going to hang because we already have a

327
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,919
version that's going to be coming in

328
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:13,360
here. Um so, I don't want you to give

329
00:26:11,919 --> 00:26:14,559
that away if you have another good use

330
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,600
for it because I'm not sure what we're I

331
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,240
think I can get another one. It's all

332
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:21,440
right. Okay. U allow me to continue. Um

333
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:24,000
uh first of all uh to uh m uh um your

334
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,799
your uh your honor uh mayor and

335
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,799
counselors uh I wish to make um uh uh

336
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:30,640
reference to uh I I don't believe I'm

337
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:34,000
may not be allowed to to speak to one of

338
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,440
the items on the agenda 11.1 um since it

339
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,120
doesn't say not for public input. I'm

340
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,600
hoping everyone here knows that I'm not

341
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:41,039
in favor of bike lanes and uh and uh

342
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,120
that's probably going to be going going

343
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,200
to be enough for the comments for that.

344
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:47,200
But I did want to make reference to the

345
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,919
whole concept of compromise. Um I did

346
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,679
note in Oak Bay news um a very

347
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:53,200
interesting article about uh this

348
00:26:51,679 --> 00:26:56,640
particular item that's coming forward uh

349
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,559
on today's agenda and um I just want uh

350
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,240
I'm very much looking forward to seeing

351
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:02,080
uh the counselors demonstrate what

352
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,159
compromise looks like. I know there's

353
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,000
the deadlock and I know that this is

354
00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:08,799
very contentious issue and I know

355
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,279
there's people from across uh uh the

356
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:12,799
Victoria area not Oakberry residents who

357
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:15,120
are would love to speak and love to see

358
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,720
changes here. I am an Oak Bay resident.

359
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,159
I don't want to see changes here. I

360
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,840
think uh the way we have it right now

361
00:27:18,159 --> 00:27:22,240
where it's a shared space for our very

362
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,000
small roads, if there is any action that

363
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,520
needs to be done, I would hope that you

364
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,640
would just simply lower the speed limit.

365
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,799
I think that might be the appropriate

366
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,039
thing. In which case, the only speeding

367
00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:33,200
tickets would be from the cyclists as

368
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:35,120
they zoom through crosswalks and those

369
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,440
other things. But we'll we'll we'll see

370
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:40,559
whether whether that happens or not. Um,

371
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,559
I did also note um that the province has

372
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:45,440
brought forward uh their comments with

373
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:46,880
respect to uh bylaw changes. I'm so

374
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,799
pleased to see you're receiving them and

375
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,120
I do look forward to you enacting them

376
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:52,720
as quickly as possible. I do note that

377
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,720
some of the suggestions have been before

378
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,799
council three or four times. It would be

379
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,559
great to see them done so that staff can

380
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:01,440
actually do some work without everything

381
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:02,960
being micromanaged at the uh head table.

382
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,120
So, thank you very much and I do look

383
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,960
forward to seeing some common sense.

384
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:09,320
Cheers.

385
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,720
Thank you. Mr.

386
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,720
Za, please come

387
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:24,760
forward. Um, Mr. Mayor, your honor and

388
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,159
council members, my name is Karen

389
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:31,520
Wonders. I live at the corner of uh

390
00:28:28,159 --> 00:28:33,840
Windsor Road and uh transit. And so

391
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:37,520
that's where the uh Oak Bay Half

392
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:39,120
Marathon began and ended on Saturday. I

393
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,600
think maybe a thousand people were

394
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:46,159
there. It's very well-known corner. And

395
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:49,520
um uh I've circulated now a letter I

396
00:28:46,159 --> 00:28:52,640
wrote uh eight years ago in 2017

397
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:56,399
regarding uh traffic uh problems on

398
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:58,919
Windsor Road. And I've just um written

399
00:28:56,399 --> 00:29:01,760
another letter today uh some of the same

400
00:28:58,919 --> 00:29:04,640
points. And um so I don't I don't think

401
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,640
I need to address those points. Um

402
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:12,320
Heather's done a good job on that. What

403
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:14,399
I'd like to just uh mention is uh my uh

404
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,440
experience, which is virtually every day

405
00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:20,159
I I meet my neighbor in the park. She

406
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:23,440
has a dog and I have two dogs. Uh the

407
00:29:20,159 --> 00:29:27,360
mayor has met my dogs, I believe, almost

408
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:30,480
adopted one. Um, and Joselyn Harris has

409
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:33,399
lived on Windsor Road and Oliver for

410
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,760
over 50 years. And she's a

411
00:29:33,399 --> 00:29:39,760
psychotherapist. Her office is here on

412
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,760
Oak Bay Avenue. Um, and she she comes to

413
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,200
the park with her dog and we walk

414
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:48,559
through the park and then uh to get her

415
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,480
home she takes the asphalt path that was

416
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:53,279
put in I don't know about 10 years ago.

417
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,760
Bay got a grant in order to make um some

418
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:58,159
sort of pavement from the pavilion to

419
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,480
the play park. There was no way for

420
00:29:58,159 --> 00:30:02,960
people in wheelchairs or with strollers

421
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,520
to get easily to the park. So, there was

422
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,520
a pathway created inside the park. So,

423
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:11,120
we go down that pathway and then we get

424
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,360
to the corner of uh transit and Windsor

425
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,559
and there's no sidewalk on the south

426
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,840
side of Windsor Road. It's an extra wide

427
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:23,840
road and the intersection there is extra

428
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:27,600
wide and so I have to go with her um

429
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:30,880
across uh first uh transit and then

430
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:33,760
across Windsor and it's very difficult

431
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:37,919
because she's a mobility challenge.

432
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:41,279
She's 87 years old uh moves with great

433
00:30:37,919 --> 00:30:44,559
um difficulty and is in pain and is very

434
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:47,760
slow. So we we go together and with all

435
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:50,640
the dogs and just pray that whoever is

436
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:54,240
coming down uh Windsor Road toward the

437
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,559
park is if uh they see us that they will

438
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,679
slow down because we can't get across

439
00:30:56,559 --> 00:31:01,799
that road fast enough and and this is my

440
00:30:59,679 --> 00:31:04,080
daily experience and it's really

441
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:06,880
nerve-wracking and I think it needs to

442
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,279
be addressed. Um I I mention in my

443
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:13,120
letter I've seen two dogs hit by

444
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:15,520
speeding uh cars and I myself was hit on

445
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,760
Windsor Road two weeks ago. Windsor Road

446
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:21,840
is not a small road. It's a it's a wide

447
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:26,480
road and I was uh cycling and and over

448
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:30,399
to the side and it certainly uh was just

449
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:32,880
um totally frightening to be uh accosted

450
00:31:30,399 --> 00:31:37,360
from behind a driver, an aggressive

451
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:40,000
driver. And uh I I'm very concerned that

452
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,399
uh the traffic issues be addressed

453
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,480
especially at the park where there are

454
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:46,399
so many people that that is our three

455
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,760
minutes. So thank you very much. No,

456
00:31:46,399 --> 00:31:49,519
thank you very much. I'll just try and

457
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,640
keep people on time so that we have make

458
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:54,200
sure everybody has a chance to speak.

459
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,200
Yes, please come forward.

460
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:02,399
Honorable mayor and council, it's

461
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,840
Kathleen Matthews. I also live at

462
00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:06,880
Windsor Park and I'm absolutely

463
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:10,000
delighted to have learned that there is

464
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,320
a survey that has gone on with now 200

465
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,320
signatures I know and my name is on that

466
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,640
I have sat here a couple of times and

467
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,880
mentioned the need for crosswalks into

468
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,279
Windsor Park and I have sent many

469
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,279
emails. I've never had any response and

470
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:25,120
nothing's ever happened. I'll speak to

471
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:26,799
the Curry side of the street. I too have

472
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,720
a dog and I have grandchildren that come

473
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:31,279
to

474
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:33,360
visit in the morning with the dogs. It's

475
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:36,080
not the dog drivers much. It's the

476
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,960
people coming into Oak Bay to do

477
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,320
gardening repairs, you know, very

478
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,679
they're coming in in their in their big

479
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,399
pickup trucks. They come around the

480
00:32:41,679 --> 00:32:47,279
corner at transit and they, you know,

481
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:49,200
Curry is a really straight flat road and

482
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,120
they just roar down there. They don't

483
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,720
see the stop signs. They don't see the

484
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,240
warnings. They don't see anything. And

485
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,240
there is, of course, Monterey School at

486
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,720
the end of that. There's a lot of people

487
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,559
going back and forth on that sidewalk. I

488
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,000
think I would like to be clear. I think

489
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:04,159
you need I was going to say three

490
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,000
sidewalks, but having listened to the

491
00:33:04,159 --> 00:33:08,320
ice cream shop one, you need four

492
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,360
sidewalks. You need two coming in where

493
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:14,480
the pavement is to Windsor Park, you

494
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,760
need one where the rugby shack is, and

495
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,519
you need another one, I guess, from the

496
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,279
ice cream shop. People are just

497
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:21,600
wandering all over the place. And when

498
00:33:19,279 --> 00:33:23,360
my grandkids come, they just I can't

499
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,120
say, you know, go to the crosswalk and

500
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,679
make sure you're careful. They just run

501
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,600
all over the place. So I think I really

502
00:33:27,679 --> 00:33:31,600
support the need and I have for many

503
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,720
years. So I'm just so grateful for you

504
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,320
folks for having come up with a a survey

505
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,960
and so thank you very much. I just want

506
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,039
to let you know it is so essential

507
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,760
especially when the number of cars but

508
00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:45,600
also it's the workers they they just

509
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,519
roar down there and then young people

510
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,440
too down and then these bicycles that

511
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:52,080
roar down there as well. Okay. Thank you

512
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:54,240
Miss Matthews.

513
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,120
Anybody else wish to speak to council on

514
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,120
matters? Yeah, please come

515
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,600
forward. You learn the process now. Just

516
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,279
name and municipality and you're welcome

517
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,600
to speak. Do I need to press Oh, you

518
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:09,359
don't. Perfect. All right. Uh my name is

519
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,760
Sonia Sun. I live here in uh Oak Bay and

520
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:14,240
I am just speaking on behalf of

521
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:17,040
supporting the crosswalk at Windsor

522
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:19,280
Park. I too have a young child. Um she

523
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,200
is 5 years old and we go to Windsor

524
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,000
Park. Uh we're walking distance to the

525
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,679
park and we go there on a very regular

526
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,119
basis, especially since the ice cream

527
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:32,480
shop has opened. And I have to say that

528
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:34,639
um um I am always nervous when we

529
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,560
approach the park from both sides, both

530
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,639
coming from the curry side of the street

531
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:43,280
as well as when we go to the ice cream

532
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:45,440
shop and come back. um many times um

533
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,760
when we're about to cross um because

534
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,079
there are cars parked on both sides of

535
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,839
the street as well right up to where the

536
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:56,000
uh air the the marked part of it it is

537
00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:57,760
um the cars will come and it is very

538
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,560
difficult for us to see the cars and the

539
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,960
bikes and so in terms I'll keep it short

540
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,560
because I believe that my neighbors have

541
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,240
done a good job explaining but I wanted

542
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:11,520
to just add my voice to uh to u the

543
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,520
thank you thank you

544
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:16,640
Uh, anybody else in the room or

545
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:22,040
online last chance to come talk to us

546
00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:24,960
about anything of interest in Oak

547
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,720
Bay? Okay, I will uh conclude this

548
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,599
portion of the meeting. Thank you very

549
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,800
much to all those who spoke. Um, we

550
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:32,400
don't hold it against you. If you've

551
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,480
come here to speak but want to leave,

552
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,839
you're more than welcome to do so.

553
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,839
Appreciate, especially with families,

554
00:35:35,839 --> 00:35:42,400
it's sometimes nice to head out again.

555
00:35:38,839 --> 00:35:44,440
Um um moving on to section to number

556
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,480
8.1, we have a streets and traffic bylaw

557
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,800
amendment, elephant's feet, quote

558
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,480
unquote. Uh we have Mr. Renick, our

559
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,680
director of engineering and public works

560
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:56,000
here to do a brief introduction.

561
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,079
Uh thank you very much uh Mr. Mayor,

562
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,320
members of council. Uh as the mayor

563
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:02,560
said, I'll be very brief. Elephant's

564
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,359
feet crossing are a type of marking that

565
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,359
is being used in a lot of jurisdictions

566
00:36:05,359 --> 00:36:09,680
around British Columbia, particularly in

567
00:36:07,359 --> 00:36:11,839
the capital region. An elephant's feet

568
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,680
crossing indicates an area where a

569
00:36:11,839 --> 00:36:15,839
cyclist is allowed to cross a road

570
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,320
without dismounting. Some people refer

571
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:19,680
to them as cross rides because they

572
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,920
operate in the same manner as a

573
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:25,040
crosswalk where a pedestrian has the

574
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:28,240
right of way. Cross bikes or elephants

575
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,920
feet markings themselves do not alone

576
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:32,240
indicate right ofway, but they are often

577
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,000
used in conjunction with another form of

578
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:37,680
traffic control such as a flashing

579
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:40,079
beacon. Uh the amendments before you

580
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,880
tonight are simply to allow Oak Bay to

581
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:45,040
have the ability to create these. We are

582
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,359
not currently seeking to add any.

583
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:50,320
However, there are a few elephants feet

584
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:53,760
marking in the Henderson and Hala

585
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,599
design. Uh so as was referenced when the

586
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,119
Henderson Hala design was first brought

587
00:36:55,599 --> 00:37:00,160
to council, there would need to be a

588
00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:01,839
bylaw amendment in order to uh authorize

589
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,839
the creation of elephants feet marking

590
00:37:01,839 --> 00:37:05,599
and so that bylaw amendment is before

591
00:37:03,839 --> 00:37:08,240
you tonight. I am happy to take any

592
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:09,520
questions. Uh thank you Mr. Renick. I

593
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,640
think this is fairly straightforward but

594
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,680
I'll turn to council and see if there's

595
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,170
any questions. Oh councelor Green and

596
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,320
then Patterson.

597
00:37:16,170 --> 00:37:19,839
[Music]

598
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,079
Thank you. Thank you very much and

599
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:26,079
through you to Mr. Renick. Thank you for

600
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:28,320
the report and the bylaw draft. Um just

601
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:30,000
one question and that is what is the

602
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,640
experience from other communities? I'm

603
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:36,000
thinking of Sanin Victoria in the use of

604
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,520
elephants feet. Um I'm I'm just

605
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,760
wondering what their what their

606
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,160
experiences have been like in terms of

607
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:45,280
traffic patterns and movement and so on.

608
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:47,119
Thank you, Mr. Renick. uh through the

609
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,520
mayor. Elephant's feet have generally

610
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:52,240
been wellreceived. Um they're generally

611
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:55,599
advocated for by uh through the

612
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:57,920
provincial design guidance. Um I think

613
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:59,599
that they're used in a lot of places.

614
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,680
City of Victoria has used them on the

615
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:05,200
crossings on Bay Street. Districts of

616
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,800
Sanage uses them a great deal and uh

617
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,400
they generally seem to be wellreceived

618
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,680
and I have not heard a lot of uh

619
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:14,560
negative feedback on them. Thank you,

620
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,560
Councelor Patterson.

621
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Yeah. Yes. Thank you, Mayor, and through

622
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:22,640
you to um Director Renick, if I could um

623
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:26,079
just just for clarification. Thank you

624
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,320
for the report. Um where the elephant

625
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:30,800
feet crosswalks would be used. If they

626
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,720
are used in conjunction with pedestrians

627
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:36,800
and you have two-way pedestrian paths

628
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:36,800
and two-way um cycling

629
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:44,160
paths, does that not expand the amount

630
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:47,680
of um width of the uh the corridor? And

631
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,359
if so, um how how did how is it

632
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,000
accommodated?

633
00:38:49,359 --> 00:38:54,000
Mr. Renick, through the mayor, there's

634
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,079
two types of applications that are used.

635
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,480
There's ones that are combination of

636
00:38:56,079 --> 00:39:00,640
bike and crosswalks and there are also

637
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,720
areas where there are separate bike

638
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,400
crossings from separate crosswalks.

639
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,560
Really depends on how much room you have

640
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,480
available. We tried to keep the bylaw

641
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,520
language flexible. But I would note that

642
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:14,000
in the proposed bylaw, it states that a

643
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,760
person riding a bicycle in a crosswalk

644
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,839
must yield the right of way to

645
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,240
pedestrians who are using that same

646
00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:22,320
crosswalk. just to address that

647
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:24,240
hierarchy of movement that pedestrians

648
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,000
always have the right of way over

649
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:29,000
cyclists who are using shared

650
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,000
facilities.

651
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,760
Any? Yes, thank you. And and just

652
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,480
another um clarification if I might uh

653
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:42,000
mayor through you to Mr. Renick. um just

654
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:44,119
to perhaps share with us where how the

655
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,040
decisions are made where um

656
00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:49,760
circumstances are crosswalks limited to

657
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:54,000
pedestrians only and where where you do

658
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:55,760
the elephant feet crossings

659
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,520
through the mayor. The elephant's feet

660
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,880
crossings would typically be restricted

661
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,800
to areas that are on a designated

662
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:04,800
bikeway. Um we are not looking to

663
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:08,000
wholesale replace pedestrian crosswalks

664
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,920
with cross rides at this time.

665
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,240
Thank you. I didn't see any other hands.

666
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,160
So, um this is good practice for the

667
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:16,079
audience if uh this is our standard

668
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,800
process. Uh we have matters that come

669
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:19,920
before council. Staff will do a brief

670
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,280
introduction. Uh members of council have

671
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,800
the opportunity to ask questions and

672
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,640
then I turn to the a where there's

673
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,320
public input uh allowed under a

674
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,160
procedure bylaw. I will turn to members

675
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,520
of the public if they wish to if they

676
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,680
have questions or have any comments on

677
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:36,000
an item. Mr. Zulka will come and

678
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:37,680
demonstrate uh the uh uh we'll just

679
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,599
invite people up but the conclusion of

680
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,200
public input. We will close the public

681
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:43,839
input portion and come back here and

682
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,760
seek a motion from council to advance or

683
00:40:43,839 --> 00:40:47,440
direct next steps for the matter at

684
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,280
hand. Um we have a number of items on

685
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,359
the agenda tonight that are for public

686
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:54,000
input. So uh this will be the standard

687
00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:56,560
process. Staff introduction, council

688
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,880
questions, public input and then back to

689
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,240
this table for direction. Mr. Zelka,

690
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,440
welcome. Uh, your honor, mayor,

691
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,200
councelors, thank you for this

692
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,280
opportunity to speak to this item. Uh,

693
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,480
my name is Eric Zaka. I live in Oak Bay.

694
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,480
In fact, I live in the northern part of

695
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,480
Oak Bay. I'm very pleased to see that

696
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,599
Oak Bay has been piloting Elephant's

697
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:16,880
Feet in the uh um University of Victoria

698
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:18,400
area. uh uh the corner of Midgard and um

699
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,599
and Gordon Head if anyone is familiar

700
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:24,000
with that that that uh that uh corner.

701
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:26,319
Uh I go by there every almost every day

702
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:29,520
taking my child up to uh Mount Doug High

703
00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:32,800
School and I get to see uh the effects

704
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:35,440
of um these elephant feeds in Oak Bay.

705
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,359
Um uh first of all, they're in Oak Bay

706
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,079
and I see they're just being made legal

707
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:41,599
possibly today. Very strange to see

708
00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:43,119
something already in use. But on the

709
00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:45,359
other hand, maybe there was a a

710
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:48,240
temporary by I wasn't familiar with but

711
00:41:45,359 --> 00:41:50,800
uh I didn't wasn't aware of. Um my

712
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:54,720
experience as a as a uh first of all as

713
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:58,400
a as a um vehicle um um uh driver is

714
00:41:54,720 --> 00:42:02,640
that uh this elephant feet uh has makes

715
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,880
the crosswalks much less safe. Um what I

716
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,400
found um at the time usually is at the

717
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,680
beginning of school or at the end of

718
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,480
school when there's lots of children

719
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,079
around. Um, of course you you I'm I'm

720
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,680
busy as a driver trying to be very very

721
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:15,359
careful already. It's it's a reduced

722
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,359
speed limit and and at that particular

723
00:42:15,359 --> 00:42:20,160
intersection it it's even got a got a

724
00:42:17,359 --> 00:42:21,920
raised crosswalk. So uh you have to slow

725
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:25,400
down no matter what. But even with all

726
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:28,000
of those um shall we say traffic calming

727
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,079
mechanisms. What um absolutely surprised

728
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,319
me was the number of bicyclists who

729
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:34,880
would fly through the intersection. They

730
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:36,079
would come down Midgard. I I I I there's

731
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,560
nobody in the intersection. And I think

732
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,839
I've got got a way through. And I if

733
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,839
they didn't hit me, I would have hit

734
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:44,560
them. Unbelievable how fast they would

735
00:42:41,839 --> 00:42:45,920
go through. Not bothering to stop, not

736
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,000
bothering to press the button, not

737
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,040
bothering to flash the lights, but

738
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,480
basically taking the right of way. Now,

739
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,760
this is what concerns me about some of

740
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,240
the comments that I heard from your from

741
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,480
your um from your staff that that that

742
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:00,000
there's no as of right uh right of way

743
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,760
with the elephant feet. But

744
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,520
unfortunately with some of the signs

745
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,160
that we've been putting up for our our

746
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:09,200
for our um bicyclists with with words

747
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,359
such as take the lane, we are teaching

748
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,520
our cyclists to be very not just

749
00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:15,680
assertive but frankly aggressive and

750
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,200
they think they have the right of way.

751
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,040
What I would like to see as an amendment

752
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,800
to this, and I would suggest you take

753
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,480
option three on this and ask staff to

754
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,839
come back with amendment, is to please

755
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,480
put a stop sign on both sides of a

756
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:31,119
crosswalk with elephant feet because at

757
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,040
on the Oak Bay side of this particular

758
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:35,040
intersection at Midgard, there is no

759
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,040
stop sign essentially. And and now

760
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,960
there's a there's a lovely little uh um

761
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,040
opportunity there for a cyclist to

762
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,680
possibly stop, press the button, and

763
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,119
then proceed and cycle across.

764
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,480
Unfortunately, there's no stop sign

765
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:49,599
there. They don't have to do that. In

766
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:52,160
fact, most cyclists weren't doing this.

767
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:55,040
So, please put a stop sign in to let the

768
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,960
cyclist know they have to stop to make

769
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,280
sure the way is clear and that they do

770
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,119
not have the right of way unless there

771
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,800
is an obvious sign up in there. And in

772
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:05,359
this case, there isn't. The second place

773
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,520
I noticed where where um elephant feets

774
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:10,400
are in use is at the southern end of uh

775
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:12,480
Oak Bay, excuse me, of UC campus. uh uh

776
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,119
at at at the at the bike lane that goes

777
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,960
across the the circle into the campus.

778
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:19,200
Um the signs there are all over the

779
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,880
place. I'll admit it it I'm sure the

780
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,520
whoever designed that did was trying to

781
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:26,400
do a good job. Uh again, there's no stop

782
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,480
signs on either side giving the um uh no

783
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,319
indication that the bicyclist cyclists

784
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,599
need to stop for the pedestrians and no

785
00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:34,160
indication that they need to stop for

786
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:36,640
for for cars who may not see them.

787
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,400
Please, dear God, we want this to be

788
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:42,319
safe. We want this to be traffic

789
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:44,400
calming. I do hear calls for uh for um

790
00:44:42,319 --> 00:44:46,000
crosswalks to be put in all around

791
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,160
because there's a belief that it's

792
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,839
traffic calming. Unfortunately, those of

793
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,800
us who pay attention to mathematics and

794
00:44:49,839 --> 00:44:54,920
statistics know the most unsafe place in

795
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,680
the entire road is a controlled

796
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,960
intersection for a pedestrian. That's

797
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,760
where all the accidents are because

798
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:04,000
pedestrians think they're safe with

799
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:07,200
those magic lines. Unfortunately,

800
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:10,000
they're not. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

801
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,760
Zulka.

802
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,720
Anyone else wish to address council on

803
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,720
this item? Please come forward.

804
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,240
Welcome.

805
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,960
Oh, we need to push the button to turn

806
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:29,200
on. I think I think it's on. It's not.

807
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:31,040
You just need to push. There we go. It's

808
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,280
on. There you go. My name is Judith

809
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,359
Slimman. I live in Oak Bay. I wasn't

810
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,000
intending to talk tonight, but the these

811
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:41,920
elephants feet uh have brought up a

812
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:44,560
question for me um through the mayor. Am

813
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,200
I to understand that the elephant's feet

814
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:50,200
at a

815
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:54,240
crosswalk means that a person on a

816
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:57,520
bike can ride their bike across a

817
00:45:54,240 --> 00:46:00,000
crosswalk? Is is that what elf's feet

818
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,040
are intended to do? No. Uh um I was

819
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,800
going to answer your question, but I

820
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,960
think I'll hand this over to Mr. Renick

821
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,520
just maybe just take a moment. Uh I

822
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,880
appreciate it's not common terminology.

823
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,160
So why don't we explain and perhaps Mr.

824
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,160
Renick you could also just talk to I

825
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,079
know in the current designs where we've

826
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,839
contemplated them as been stop signs but

827
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:18,400
uh perhaps just talk a little bit about

828
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:21,599
best practices for design.

829
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,599
Uh thank you very much Mr. Mayor. There

830
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:25,680
are a number of different bre best

831
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:27,440
practice treatments and it would depend

832
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,119
on the type of road that's being

833
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,800
crossed. Sometimes they are paired with

834
00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:33,440
stop signs. Sometimes they're paired

835
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,359
with a traffic light. Uh in response to

836
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,839
the direct question from the resident,

837
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:39,839
yes, a crosswalk with an elephant's feet

838
00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:42,079
does indicate that a cyclist may use it

839
00:46:39,839 --> 00:46:46,480
without dismounting their bicycle. Thank

840
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:48,800
you. So that but but it's not just a

841
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,560
bikeway. It's also a pedestrian

842
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,280
crosswalk. Is that accurate? So it's

843
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,800
combining both a pedestrian c crosswalk

844
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,040
and a bike.

845
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,319
So there's they're they're called

846
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,560
they're as he's mentioned they're

847
00:46:58,319 --> 00:47:02,160
sometimes called a a rideway. So they're

848
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,720
just an indicating like a crosswalk that

849
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,000
it's a place that bicycles may be

850
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,040
crossing. So um I'm sure there's

851
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,119
anything else you wish to add to that

852
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,599
Mr. Renick.

853
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:14,400
Um just as I I'm sorry through the

854
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:16,640
mayor. Um, as I stated earlier in the

855
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,480
proposed bylaw language for council in

856
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,480
situations where a cyclist and a

857
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,240
pedestrian may be using one of these at

858
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,079
the same time, the proposed bylaw

859
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:26,560
language is that the cyclist must give

860
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:29,359
way to any pedestrian using the

861
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,520
crossing. Thank you. The comment I have

862
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:33,520
to make about that, which is an ongoing

863
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:37,040
concern that I have on our roads in Oak

864
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:40,560
Bay, is that in reality that does not

865
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:43,920
happen. In reality, what happens is that

866
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:45,359
pedestrians give way to bikes because

867
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,760
they're afraid if they don't, they're

868
00:47:45,359 --> 00:47:51,119
going to get hit. That is just the

869
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:53,760
reality of those two different ways of

870
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:55,640
getting around when when they're in the

871
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,400
same space, pedestrians

872
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:00,560
yield. So, I'm not sure that it's an

873
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,800
effective thing. Thank you. Thank you

874
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,319
for your

875
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:08,000
comments. Uh, anyone else wish to

876
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:09,920
address council on this item?

877
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,240
Don't see any other hands either online

878
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,319
or here. So I'm going to bring back to

879
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:16,400
this

880
00:48:13,319 --> 00:48:17,520
table. Uh probably any any other

881
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,839
questions we'll take first and if not

882
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,599
I'll go to motions. Last seen questions.

883
00:48:19,839 --> 00:48:23,359
Go ahead. Councelor Appleton. I thought

884
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:26,160
you were move receipt of the staff

885
00:48:23,359 --> 00:48:28,400
report. Moved and seconded. Thank you.

886
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,240
Any discussion for receipt usually? All

887
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,800
those in

888
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:34,240
favor? Opposed? Not opposed.

889
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,240
Uh your worship I would move that

890
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:38,200
streets and traffic bylaw number 4100

891
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:41,920
2000 amendment bylaw number

892
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:44,559
4908205 be read a first and second time

893
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,319
and seconded. Thank you. Um this is our

894
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:48,559
chance to debate and discuss any

895
00:48:46,319 --> 00:48:49,920
discussion.

896
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:52,319
Yeah. Go ahead. Councelor Smart is a

897
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,640
second and then councelor Green.

898
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:56,559
Oh thank you. I I just want to um

899
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,480
address and I really appreciate um

900
00:48:56,559 --> 00:49:00,079
members of um the public coming up and

901
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,520
and sharing their concerns today that

902
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:03,599
what we have in front of us right now is

903
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:06,480
a a bylaw allowing us to use this new

904
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:09,280
tool and I as we go forward and use this

905
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,680
tool in new situations. We um will very

906
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,440
much have your thoughts. Um thank you

907
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,240
very much

908
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:19,520
Green. Thank you. I I would really

909
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:22,240
appreciate some use user data on on on

910
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,440
these um on these mitigations, elephant

911
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,359
feet. I'm not saying that they're not

912
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,359
popular or that they don't work, but I

913
00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:30,400
am mindful of the comments from from

914
00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:33,119
pedestrians and I myself have have

915
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:36,319
experienced that as well in a crosswalk.

916
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:39,280
Um, so it would be I would really

917
00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:42,480
appreciate more information um and some

918
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:45,040
traffic uh some traffic data from other

919
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,960
communities, specific data to the use of

920
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,240
this tool. I'm not against using the

921
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,800
tool, but I think I need more

922
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:53,760
information. Thank you.

923
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:56,319
Thank you, Councelor Appleton.

924
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,559
Thank you, worship. So, in in favor made

925
00:49:56,319 --> 00:50:00,079
the motion. Uh the the thing with

926
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:02,559
elephants feet, you know, being on the

927
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:04,559
on the on on the road network and and

928
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:07,119
cycling pretty regularly is is that

929
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:08,880
they're in the greater Victoria area,

930
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:10,800
they're more or less cosmopolitan now.

931
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,960
They've become sort of the standard

932
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,280
indication that a bicycle may cross at

933
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,359
that point. And so I I take the view

934
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,319
that actually because we haven't been

935
00:50:17,359 --> 00:50:23,280
able to employ that really uh distinct

936
00:50:20,319 --> 00:50:24,960
visual cue for all types of road users

937
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,319
in Oak Bay because we haven't been able

938
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,480
to because there's been no bylaw that

939
00:50:26,319 --> 00:50:30,880
allows it. Uh we actually stand kind of

940
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:33,520
apart from the rest of municipalities.

941
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,040
The these were uncommon maybe 10 years

942
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,640
ago but are now pretty much

943
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:40,079
cosmopolitan. All types of road

944
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:43,200
crossings all through the CRD. Um, so I

945
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:44,559
think staying consistent with standard

946
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,920
practice across the region actually

947
00:50:44,559 --> 00:50:47,760
makes things more predictable for all

948
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,520
road users.

949
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:54,160
Thank you, Maria. Thank

950
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:55,920
you. See any other discussion? Uh, I'm

951
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,520
just going to speak in support of the uh

952
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,200
of the amendments to the bylaw. I think

953
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,680
it's another tool that we can use in our

954
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,200
design pieces. Uh, I take the point that

955
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,280
it's true that most accidents do happen

956
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,720
in crossings. Even marked crossings are

957
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,400
are a key problem. Um I do think there

958
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:11,680
is going to be pros and cons to this

959
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,520
that we'll have to look at. But I think

960
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,880
there is one of the positive approaches

961
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,359
and this is touched on by councelor

962
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,119
Appleton. Um just having this this the

963
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:20,960
pieces on the road. Uh these can exist

964
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:23,520
where there's not a crosswalk. Uh and

965
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,040
they can indicate um crossing so that uh

966
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,880
cars and other bicycles can be aware

967
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,480
that there may be cyclists crossing at

968
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,400
that point which hopefully will erase

969
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,520
some of that awareness. So I think it's

970
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,480
useful to have these tools in our

971
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,920
toolkit and uh supportive of that uh

972
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,559
just having that tool in our tool

973
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,160
toolbox. Go ahead, councelor Patterson.

974
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:42,319
Yes, thank you, Mayor. And I do

975
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:44,559
appreciate people coming forward um from

976
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:47,200
the gallery to speak about this because

977
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:49,640
yes, crosswalks can be um quite

978
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:54,800
intimidating places for um for

979
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:56,720
pedestrians and um and uh unfortunately

980
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,559
it doesn't really matter what you're

981
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:02,079
driving. Aggressive drivers are

982
00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:04,880
aggressive drivers and and um cautious

983
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:06,480
drivers are cautious drivers. I what the

984
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,720
what I I will support this though

985
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:11,520
because the bylaw enables it doesn't

986
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:15,839
mandate us to do it. It enables us to do

987
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:19,520
it and um monitor whatever changes are

988
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:23,040
made. And so uh by just allowing us to

989
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:26,000
enable it, it allows us to in fact um to

990
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:29,040
utilize these and to monitor how they

991
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:32,480
are used and whether more modifications

992
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:34,960
are necessary. Thank you. Oh, councelor

993
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,880
Reed for a second time. Very quickly, I

994
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,680
I will support the motion, but I want to

995
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,200
say that I would like us to practice

996
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,880
real v

997
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,119
vigilance on this particular bylaw and

998
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,040
that in fact that we do monitor it and

999
00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:49,200
and make sure that people are safe

1000
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:52,760
because the mix is challenging

1001
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:54,720
especially with ebikes. Thanks. House

1002
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,680
agreeing. Seeing no other hands, I'm

1003
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:57,400
going to call the question. This is for

1004
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,240
first and second reading. All those in

1005
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:03,119
favor? Any opposed? None oppose. Can I

1006
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:04,240
have a mover third reading?

1007
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:06,400
Your worship, I would move the streets

1008
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:09,200
and traffic by line number 4100 2000

1009
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,160
amendment bylaw number 4908 2025 be read

1010
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:14,880
a third time. Is there a seconder? Thank

1011
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,079
you. Uh all those in favor. Any opposed?

1012
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,920
None opposed. That'll come back for

1013
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:20,559
consideration of adoption at the next

1014
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,480
council meeting. Uh we move to item

1015
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:23,680
number

1016
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,680
8.2. I'm not surprised that there isn't

1017
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,359
a didn't think anybody was here just to

1018
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,280
see that one item. So we'll continue on

1019
00:53:27,359 --> 00:53:31,559
to other items on the agenda. uh

1020
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:35,839
development variance permit DVP

1021
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:37,359
000175 at 181383 St. David Street. We

1022
00:53:35,839 --> 00:53:39,119
have Mr. Green, our deputy director of

1023
00:53:37,359 --> 00:53:41,920
community building and planning uh to

1024
00:53:39,119 --> 00:53:43,960
introduce the item. Welcome.

1025
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,400
Uh good evening worship members of

1026
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:48,000
council. Uh the district has received a

1027
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,559
development variance permit application

1028
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,880
for the property located at 1383 St

1029
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:54,880
David Street. The requested variance is

1030
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:58,720
to reduce the setback for the sighting

1031
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:01,440
of a new heat pump from 1.5 m to 1.5 to

1032
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:04,400
1.0 meters from the property line, a

1033
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,160
variance of.5 m. The new heat pump

1034
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,920
replaces an existing heat pump that was

1035
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,440
subject to a bylaw compliance file

1036
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,440
following complaint that the district

1037
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,119
receive. Staff are recommending that the

1038
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,000
requested various be supported and

1039
00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:18,160
development variance permit DVP 00175

1040
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,319
for 1383 St David Davis Street be

1041
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,359
approved. Two pieces of correspondence

1042
00:54:20,319 --> 00:54:22,559
have been received following the

1043
00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:24,319
district giving notice of the

1044
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:26,800
application and which is attached to

1045
00:54:24,319 --> 00:54:28,000
council's agenda. The applicant is also

1046
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,880
here to answer any questions that

1047
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:33,119
council may have on the application and

1048
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,480
likewise I'm also yeah concludes my

1049
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:35,760
presentation and happy to answer any

1050
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,319
questions that council may have on the

1051
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,920
application.

1052
00:54:38,319 --> 00:54:42,160
Thank you very much Mr. Green. We have

1053
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,160
the report in front of us. Uh are there

1054
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:47,119
questions from members of council either

1055
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:49,520
to the applicant or to staff? Please go

1056
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:51,119
ahead. Councelor Smart.

1057
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,040
Uh, thank you. Um, through Merit to

1058
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:55,200
staff, I I just wondered if it could be

1059
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:57,839
clarified a little bit further. Um, in

1060
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,839
the report, it mentions um anticipating

1061
00:54:57,839 --> 00:55:02,880
causing the least disturbance to

1062
00:54:59,839 --> 00:55:04,559
neighboring properties. I was having um

1063
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,880
difficulty in looking at the drawings

1064
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:09,119
and reading the report and understanding

1065
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,480
how placing the heat pump in the front

1066
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:15,040
yard, which seems to be more than 25 ft

1067
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,319
away from a sidewalk, could actually be

1068
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:20,079
more disturbing than placing a heat

1069
00:55:17,319 --> 00:55:22,160
pump, just feet away from a neighboring

1070
00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:23,520
house. Um but maybe I'm missing

1071
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,200
something. So, I just wondered if staff

1072
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:31,359
could clarify how uh the front location

1073
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:32,359
would be more disruptive. Thank you.

1074
00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:34,319
Mr.

1075
00:55:32,359 --> 00:55:36,640
Green for your worship. I think the

1076
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:38,559
applicants are proposing or suggesting

1077
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,720
that it would be more visually intrusive

1078
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:42,960
if that heat pump was located on the on

1079
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:44,400
the on the on the in the front yard or

1080
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,599
on the on the front of the property, I

1081
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,960
should add. It would have been in the

1082
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:48,640
front yard. It would be on the front of

1083
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,079
the house. And so I think they think

1084
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,520
from a visual perspective that they

1085
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:53,280
think it would be better to be screened

1086
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,440
in the side of the house rather than the

1087
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,760
front. and uh the need for further

1088
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,079
screening to uh to u which is now

1089
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,359
required in in the

1090
00:55:59,079 --> 00:56:02,960
bylaw. Now I believe that if the the

1091
00:56:01,359 --> 00:56:05,599
applicant may wish to add something to

1092
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:09,359
that effect if they are here I believe

1093
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:11,680
they were invited to the meeting. Seeing

1094
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:14,160
them yes good afternoon Mr. Mayor and

1095
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,640
council. Thank you. Um yes to answer

1096
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:19,040
that question um I believe the the the

1097
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:22,160
essential essentially the um the

1098
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:24,000
variance is requesting for 0.5 meters.

1099
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,440
um should we essentially looked at two

1100
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,960
locations with one which is the current

1101
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,680
location where we require the variance

1102
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:31,440
of 0.5 meters um and in that location

1103
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,119
and the current location um which is

1104
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,680
again only one meter from the property

1105
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:37,839
line there is a 6ft cedar fence that

1106
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,520
runs along the entire property line so

1107
00:56:37,839 --> 00:56:42,079
the heat pump in its current location

1108
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,599
and where we're requesting a variance to

1109
00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:45,680
retain it we're replacing it of course

1110
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:48,799
with a new high efficiency quiet model

1111
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:50,400
um would be essentially equally or even

1112
00:56:48,799 --> 00:56:53,440
more quiet for the immediate neighbors

1113
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,880
at 1387 given that um six foot cedar

1114
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,319
fence which does not exist at the front

1115
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,520
of the house. So the alternative

1116
00:56:56,319 --> 00:56:59,200
location at the front of the house would

1117
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,200
not only be visible from the street, it

1118
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,640
would also not have that that cedar

1119
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,400
fence between the property line which we

1120
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:07,040
believe would would essentially mean

1121
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,960
that extra 0.5 meters would would not

1122
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,079
reduce the sound any further. Hopefully

1123
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,599
that answers your question. Yes. Thank

1124
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:13,200
you. Mr. Borland, can I just ask you to

1125
00:57:11,599 --> 00:57:15,280
just state your name and municipality of

1126
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:18,160
residents just for the record? Sure.

1127
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:20,960
Mark Borland, Oak Bay, 138 David Street.

1128
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:23,839
Thank you very much. Um, smart. Anything

1129
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:25,520
else? No other questions? Any other

1130
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:27,319
questions for members of council for the

1131
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,760
applicant or

1132
00:57:27,319 --> 00:57:30,960
staff? Okay. Uh, at that point then

1133
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,200
we're going to go to members of the

1134
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:36,000
public. We have received some

1135
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:38,960
correspondence on this uh expressing uh

1136
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,200
their opinions on the application. Um,

1137
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:44,040
happy to uh take anybody who wishes to

1138
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,480
speak to us in person as

1139
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,079
well. and we can take if this if

1140
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,760
anybody's online and wishes to speak,

1141
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:52,160
you can raise your hand within the Zoom

1142
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,160
app by using the react tab. If you're

1143
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,640
listening and calling into the 1855

1144
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:59,599
number, you would hit star 9. It's star

1145
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,359
9, not pound 9, star9 to uh uh raise

1146
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:03,119
your hand. I see one hand raised online,

1147
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:04,880
but we have a somebody in the audience.

1148
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:06,799
Uh please state your name. Municipality

1149
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,960
residents and welcome. Thank you, Mr.

1150
00:58:06,799 --> 00:58:12,319
Mayor. John Armitage. I'm a resident of

1151
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:15,680
Oak Bay. I I came here not intending to

1152
00:58:12,319 --> 00:58:18,160
speak to this issue but um

1153
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,799
professionally as an architect I've had

1154
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:25,040
fair bit of experience with heat pumps

1155
00:58:20,799 --> 00:58:27,359
of various size up to multi-ton units

1156
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,720
one of which uh was required to be shut

1157
00:58:27,359 --> 00:58:33,119
down on a project

1158
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:35,599
because it was placed on a roof with uh

1159
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:39,000
an upstand wall of about a story or so

1160
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:42,359
behind it and that projected the sound

1161
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:44,599
out uh a very large

1162
00:58:42,359 --> 00:58:46,720
distance such that

1163
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:49,119
neighbors at the other end of a sports

1164
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,720
field and across the road were disturbed

1165
00:58:49,119 --> 00:58:55,119
by it because these things come on at

1166
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:57,280
2:00 a.m. and so forth and it's so um

1167
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:58,480
that's my professional experience and my

1168
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,760
professional experience dealing with

1169
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:05,480
acoustic engineers is that um a

1170
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,760
hedge is acoustically

1171
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:09,240
transparent. A cedar fence is

1172
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,839
acoustically

1173
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,960
transparent. Um, any kind of house

1174
00:59:11,839 --> 00:59:16,640
structure is a

1175
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:19,160
reflector. So, it doesn't matter whether

1176
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:23,200
it's half a meter variance

1177
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:26,000
or some other number. Um, it will still

1178
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:28,160
project whatever sound, which may be

1179
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,359
minimal when the unit is new, it will

1180
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,040
project that onto the neighboring

1181
00:59:29,359 --> 00:59:33,200
property. If it's at the front of the

1182
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:36,240
house, you can screen it visually by

1183
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:38,799
other means. Um, and it will project

1184
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:41,440
that sound over a greater distance where

1185
00:59:38,799 --> 00:59:44,160
there's more environmental friction in

1186
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:47,040
the way of uh other vegetation and and

1187
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:49,440
obstacles that break up the uh the

1188
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:52,640
impact of of sound. So that's the extent

1189
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:55,799
of my comments. Thank you. Thank you

1190
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,799
very much.

1191
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,559
We have a hand up online. Uh uh Johan

1192
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,000
Boseman, if you could just again state

1193
01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:03,440
your name, municipality of residents,

1194
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:06,559
and uh you're welcome to address

1195
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:09,440
council. Yeah. Um good evening, mayor

1196
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:11,520
and council. I'm Yan Bosman, 1387 St.

1197
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,960
David Street, and I'm speaking to oppose

1198
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:16,400
this development uh development variance

1199
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,160
permit. Um this variant seeks to

1200
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:20,160
legitimize a heat pump that's placed

1201
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:23,359
just 1 meter from my property line and

1202
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:25,680
directly opposite our bedroom windows.

1203
01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:28,400
Uh there are three critical reasons to

1204
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:30,240
uh deny this application. Um first of

1205
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,559
all, there's no real hardship here.

1206
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:35,359
There's only convenience. Uh the

1207
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:37,160
applicants own a large 10,000t property

1208
01:00:35,359 --> 01:00:39,599
that offers them many compliant

1209
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:41,680
locations, including the entire south

1210
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:43,640
side of the property where there are no

1211
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:47,200
direct neighbors and a right-of-way

1212
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:48,799
laneway and also front and uh rear yard

1213
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,280
locations that would be much further

1214
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:53,359
away from the property line.

1215
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,920
We are the uh only property directly

1216
01:00:53,359 --> 01:00:57,599
affected by this noise pollution and

1217
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,280
literally any other location on their

1218
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:02,079
property would have less or zero noise

1219
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:05,040
impact to us as their neighbors and also

1220
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:06,880
not require a variance. Uh the reason

1221
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:09,440
that there's existing duct work is not a

1222
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,960
hardship, it's a convenience. Uh the

1223
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,559
reason to avoid the south side of the

1224
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,440
property is simply because that's where

1225
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:16,720
all the applicants bedroom windows are

1226
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,720
located. They're not facing hardship.

1227
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,400
They're just seeking convenience at our

1228
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,760
expense.

1229
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,839
The second reason, uh, there's

1230
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:26,400
documented noise nuisance and health

1231
01:01:23,839 --> 01:01:28,480
impact. Uh, this isn't theoretical. We

1232
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,799
filed many repeat noise complaints,

1233
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:33,280
sound level recordings, even a log book

1234
01:01:30,799 --> 01:01:35,359
documenting all the noise pollution. And

1235
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:37,280
for nearly 2 years, we've endured uh,

1236
01:01:35,359 --> 01:01:40,079
sleepless nights due to continuous

1237
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,440
mechanical noise and compressor cycling,

1238
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:43,440
uh, forced closure of our bedroom

1239
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:46,240
windows at night with no ventilation or

1240
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,200
fresh air, and real health impacts from

1241
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:50,799
chronic sleep disruption. Uh, the heat

1242
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,799
pump's location directly opposite our

1243
01:01:50,799 --> 01:01:55,119
bedroom window makes a normal quality of

1244
01:01:52,799 --> 01:01:56,720
sleep almost impossible, especially

1245
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:58,480
during the colder months when the heat

1246
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,599
pump is always cycling on or off and

1247
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:03,040
almost constantly

1248
01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:05,680
running. Uh, in third, uh, they're

1249
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:08,319
acting in in bad faith. Um they've

1250
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,880
violated the bylaws multiple times and

1251
01:02:08,319 --> 01:02:12,559
after operating the heat pump illegally,

1252
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,720
receiving many repeat noise complaints

1253
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:16,640
without taking action and finally

1254
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:19,040
disabling the equipment as instructed by

1255
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:21,920
the district. Uh they've now installed a

1256
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:25,040
new heat new heat pump in the exact uh

1257
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:26,559
same illegal location just last week uh

1258
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:29,680
without approval on this variance

1259
01:02:26,559 --> 01:02:31,440
application pending before you. During

1260
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,119
that installation, the HVAC company

1261
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,760
cycled on the new heat pump several

1262
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:37,520
times to verify proper installation and

1263
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,640
the noise level at the property line

1264
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:42,240
averaged 58 dB while in operation uh

1265
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,799
which does not meet the allowable noise

1266
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:48,480
level set by OP bylaw especially the

1267
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:50,160
maximum 45 dB at night. So this proves

1268
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:53,280
that the proposed sighting cannot meet

1269
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:55,280
the maximum allowable noise level. In

1270
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,799
summary, there's no hardship. Uh there

1271
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,119
are many alternate sighting options

1272
01:02:56,799 --> 01:03:00,720
available. Uh this is directly affecting

1273
01:02:59,119 --> 01:03:02,640
our enjoyment of our property, our

1274
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:04,640
sleep, and our health. Uh there's a

1275
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,799
lengthy documented bylaw file with noise

1276
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,720
pollution complaints. Uh the noise

1277
01:03:06,799 --> 01:03:10,880
limits can simply not be met in this

1278
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,799
location, and the applicants have acted

1279
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,359
in bad faith by installing a new heat

1280
01:03:12,799 --> 01:03:16,280
pump without variance

1281
01:03:14,359 --> 01:03:18,720
approval. So there are viable

1282
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,240
alternatives. Uh they've simply chosen

1283
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:22,000
not to use them because it's more

1284
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:24,720
convenient and less expensive to violate

1285
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:27,119
the bylaw. So, I ask that you deny this

1286
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:28,880
various application, that you uphold

1287
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:30,960
OPE's new zoning setbacks for heat

1288
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,960
pumps, and that you require immediate

1289
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:35,119
compliance with the existing bylaw.

1290
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:38,000
Thank you. Thank you for your comments,

1291
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:39,839
Mr. Boseman. Uh, we can't address the

1292
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,440
compliance issues at this table, but I

1293
01:03:39,839 --> 01:03:44,119
appreciate they're related to the to the

1294
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:46,480
variance concerns.

1295
01:03:44,119 --> 01:03:49,640
Um, anybody else wish to speak? Please

1296
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,640
come forward.

1297
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:03,440
I'm Terry Batrit and I'm in Oak Bay and

1298
01:04:00,319 --> 01:04:07,200
I was the original installer of the heat

1299
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,640
pump in 1383 St. David Street. I wrote a

1300
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,960
letter to council. I'm just going to

1301
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,720
read it again so that we do have your

1302
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,839
letter on here so you don't need to read

1303
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:17,839
it aloud. So then I will um maybe

1304
01:04:15,839 --> 01:04:21,200
correct some of the misinformation in

1305
01:04:17,839 --> 01:04:25,000
the letter uh that you received from the

1306
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:28,319
neighbor opposing this. By the way,

1307
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:31,640
um we did not illegally install the heat

1308
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:36,799
pump. There were no bylaws when it was

1309
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:39,680
installed. Um the new unit, the the the

1310
01:04:36,799 --> 01:04:41,599
current owners installed the new unit to

1311
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,599
be in compliance.

1312
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:47,200
We installed the new we installed the

1313
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:50,480
heat bomb originally because we wanted

1314
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,720
to be environmentally conscious and to

1315
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:55,480
do our

1316
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:59,280
part. Um, so you understand that when we

1317
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:01,839
heard that we uh our neighbors left

1318
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:04,400
their bedroom windows open all the time,

1319
01:05:01,839 --> 01:05:06,480
we changed uh the cycles of the heat

1320
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,319
pump and after that there were no

1321
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:11,280
problems, no complaints. So, the only

1322
01:05:08,319 --> 01:05:12,839
complaints about the heat pump are from

1323
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:17,680
the current

1324
01:05:12,839 --> 01:05:21,119
owners. Um, when this uh the

1325
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:23,119
complaintant who just spoke spoke about

1326
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:24,680
the zoning regulations and protections

1327
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:28,440
of the neighborhood

1328
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:31,760
character. I I find

1329
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:34,920
it startling that they would say that

1330
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:37,400
after having received a much larger

1331
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:41,440
variance to have

1332
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:44,119
a secondary dwelling on their property

1333
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:47,119
that hadn't been

1334
01:05:44,119 --> 01:05:50,160
approved. Um I think that contradicted

1335
01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:52,400
the neighborhood's character and I think

1336
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:54,000
that the current owners are trying to do

1337
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,799
everything they can to make this

1338
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:59,400
situation work.

1339
01:05:56,799 --> 01:06:01,760
um they're being environmentally

1340
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:05,079
responsible and I think their efforts

1341
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:08,799
should be um applauded and

1342
01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:12,000
encouraged. Um there's also just there's

1343
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:13,839
some errors in the timeline for when it

1344
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,680
was installed. It was not installed in

1345
01:06:13,839 --> 01:06:19,000
2008

1346
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:21,280
um and things like that. But the only

1347
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,520
uh and I think it's important to

1348
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:26,000
understand that yeah, the current heat

1349
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:28,200
pump is well within the guidelines and

1350
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:32,240
they're asking for only a half a meter

1351
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:34,240
variance. So I would encourage you to u

1352
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,680
approve this variance. Thank you. Oh,

1353
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:38,000
and I wanted to say thank you for all

1354
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:40,960
the work you do. I know it's a thankless

1355
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:43,839
job and I appreciate it. See, not a

1356
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:45,240
thankless job. You said thank you. Thank

1357
01:06:43,839 --> 01:06:47,520
you.

1358
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:50,720
Uh any other members of the public wish

1359
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,720
to speak? Please come

1360
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,640
forward. Just want to point out we had a

1361
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,920
couple of comments are drifting off into

1362
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,440
other aspects. I just really want to

1363
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,960
keep our focus both at this table and

1364
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:01,119
from the public on the merits or lack

1365
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,720
thereof of the variance application. So

1366
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:04,000
welcome sir and just the same process

1367
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,359
name and municipality of residence. You

1368
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,039
do have to hit the button on the on the

1369
01:07:05,359 --> 01:07:10,039
microphone.

1370
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:14,400
James Stockell uh resident of Oak Bay

1371
01:07:10,039 --> 01:07:17,200
1397 St. David Street. Uh my wife uh

1372
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:21,359
Deborah Stockdale and I uh support this

1373
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:24,359
uh variance. We are two houses away from

1374
01:07:21,359 --> 01:07:27,680
uh the house that is requesting this

1375
01:07:24,359 --> 01:07:32,240
variance. I I believe this is an issue

1376
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:35,440
related to sound. It's not a uh any

1377
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:38,480
other issue involved. The distances I I

1378
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:41,280
understand are uh in the bylaws saying

1379
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:44,640
you should place a heat pump but it's

1380
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:48,000
basically about sound. From what I

1381
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:51,039
understand uh it has not been connected.

1382
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:54,559
They have not connected uh the owners uh

1383
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:59,039
at any time or the company providing uh

1384
01:07:54,559 --> 01:08:02,240
the heat pump. Uh so some thoughts or

1385
01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:05,039
suggestions that it had been done are I

1386
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:07,200
believe incorrect. I think the owners uh

1387
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:11,680
when they speak to you will be able to

1388
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:14,960
uh clarify uh that situation. Um cuz I

1389
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:19,920
believe that uh this heat pump only puts

1390
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:21,920
out 48 uh dB and uh that will decrease

1391
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:24,480
uh as you get close to the property

1392
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:27,239
line. and I think it's a decibel uh per

1393
01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:32,480
foot which should put it in the

1394
01:08:27,239 --> 01:08:36,799
acceptable range. I the owners of 1383

1395
01:08:32,480 --> 01:08:40,400
have gone to uh considerable efforts uh

1396
01:08:36,799 --> 01:08:43,279
to mitigate the sound uh with the uh

1397
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:46,480
cedar uh fence that they've placed up

1398
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:49,640
and putting in an expensive heat pump

1399
01:08:46,480 --> 01:08:51,960
that's uh I understand is

1400
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:55,759
state-of-the-art.

1401
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:58,640
Uh I I think the thought of putting it

1402
01:08:55,759 --> 01:09:02,400
in front of the house is aesthetically

1403
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:05,759
not pleasing and not necessary and would

1404
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:08,719
incur a significant further sum of money

1405
01:09:05,759 --> 01:09:10,400
on top of what they have already spent.

1406
01:09:08,719 --> 01:09:12,719
And we're talking about a young couple

1407
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:15,920
here with two young children. And I

1408
01:09:12,719 --> 01:09:21,440
think we have to be respectful of uh of

1409
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:24,640
their uh very sensible wise uh uh

1410
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:27,759
approach here. And I would think uh the

1411
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:30,480
mayor, if I could paraphrase one of your

1412
01:09:27,759 --> 01:09:34,799
statements, is this would seem to be a

1413
01:09:30,480 --> 01:09:37,600
very reasonable ask of the or Thank you.

1414
01:09:34,799 --> 01:09:39,520
Thank you.

1415
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,120
Uh, any other members of the public

1416
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,359
online or in person who wish to speak to

1417
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,880
the

1418
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:46,480
application? Yep. Oh, I see Mark online.

1419
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,719
Please go ahead. Are you the uh are you

1420
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:50,799
the owner? Yes, that's correct. I am the

1421
01:09:48,719 --> 01:09:52,400
applicant, Mark Borland, 1383 St. David.

1422
01:09:50,799 --> 01:09:54,640
Um, yes. I just want to clarify. I'm not

1423
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,760
going to go into um some of the the he

1424
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,760
said she said. I just want to clarify

1425
01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:00,400
that we did speak with five different

1426
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,760
HVAC companies and um they each carry

1427
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,120
multiple models of heat pump and the

1428
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:06,000
heat pump that we have chosen to replace

1429
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:08,800
the existing unit is the single quietest

1430
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:11,760
model that we can find. It produces 48

1431
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,360
dB as Mr. Stockdale said at the unit

1432
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,920
which uh 3 ft away from the property

1433
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:18,320
line translates to 45 dB at the property

1434
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:21,199
line. So even at with only 1 meter from

1435
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:23,280
the property line it will produce 45 dB.

1436
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:25,760
We also understand that that um regular

1437
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,960
servicing is necessary and the warranty

1438
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:29,679
on the heat pump requires annual

1439
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:32,080
servicing to be valid. So um rest

1440
01:10:29,679 --> 01:10:34,480
assured that we will continue to ensure

1441
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:37,199
that it stays at 45 dB at the property

1442
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:38,560
line. Um yeah, that's pretty much all I

1443
01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:40,080
have to say and uh thank you for your

1444
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,320
consideration.

1445
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,360
Thank you, Mr.

1446
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,719
Borland. Any other members of the public

1447
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,480
wish to talk to council on this matter

1448
01:10:44,719 --> 01:10:48,800
before I bring it back to this table?

1449
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:51,040
Oh, do I see a hand online? Yes, I do.

1450
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:53,440
Uh Pamela online, please name and

1451
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:55,840
municipality of residence. Yeah, I'm

1452
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:58,920
Pamela. I'm the next door neighbor at

1453
01:10:55,840 --> 01:11:02,480
1387 St. David Street, uh Oak

1454
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:04,320
Bay. Um we are the only neighbor that

1455
01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:08,239
hears this heat pump and I would hope

1456
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:12,159
that you would take our uh lengthy

1457
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:14,120
history into consideration. Um, if I had

1458
01:11:12,159 --> 01:11:17,280
confidence

1459
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:19,600
that this heat pump could be maintained

1460
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:22,400
and that I could have communications

1461
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:26,159
with the neighbor to to discuss the

1462
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:29,199
matter or if bylaw could support any

1463
01:11:26,159 --> 01:11:32,239
issues I'm having in in sleeping at

1464
01:11:29,199 --> 01:11:33,520
night, um, then, you know, it might be a

1465
01:11:32,239 --> 01:11:37,840
different story. But I've got two and a

1466
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:40,000
half years of documented problems. Uh

1467
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:42,159
initially we we went to them directly

1468
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,360
and talked to them about it and it's

1469
01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:45,040
actually not true that the previous

1470
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,560
owners of our house did not have uh

1471
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:50,000
problems. Uh they they did have

1472
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:51,440
problems. We found out later. Um we also

1473
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,960
have young children. We can't put in

1474
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:56,400
earplugs because we need to hear our

1475
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:58,520
children at night. Um we can't sleep

1476
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:03,320
with windows closed because it's you

1477
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:05,920
know it's not uh conducive to sleeping.

1478
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,760
Um, and what has been said already is

1479
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:10,159
that the new PE heat pump has already

1480
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,679
been installed. Um, and when it was

1481
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:13,760
installed, we called bylaw and bylaw

1482
01:12:11,679 --> 01:12:18,199
came to visit and we provided them the

1483
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:22,239
readings from the property line of of 58

1484
01:12:18,199 --> 01:12:24,400
dB. And so bylaw allowed that heat pump

1485
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:25,679
to continue being installed. They did

1486
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,040
not stop the installation. They

1487
01:12:25,679 --> 01:12:29,679
authorized a continuation of the

1488
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:32,239
installation. And so that was an

1489
01:12:29,679 --> 01:12:34,800
additional frustration on our part given

1490
01:12:32,239 --> 01:12:39,800
the you know 2 and a half year history

1491
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:43,440
um we've had with this issue. Um

1492
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:46,080
I know you have to be able to take um

1493
01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:47,360
comments from everybody but I think you

1494
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,440
know the history of this part of the

1495
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:52,159
neighborhood and um I would hope that

1496
01:12:49,440 --> 01:12:54,960
you do not consider opinions of people

1497
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:57,120
who do not sleep in my bedroom at night.

1498
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,960
Uh I appreciate the previous architect's

1499
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:02,040
comments. Uh it is completely true that

1500
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:05,440
a hedge and a fence do not block sound.

1501
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,440
Um and

1502
01:13:05,719 --> 01:13:11,679
um that heat pumps can actually be run

1503
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:13,600
up to 150 ft away from the source of

1504
01:13:11,679 --> 01:13:15,440
ducting. And so even turning it around

1505
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:17,840
the corner to face the front yard of

1506
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:20,760
which there is a large roto which would

1507
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:23,199
hide the the heat pump from the public.

1508
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:25,120
Um you know I think there are still

1509
01:13:23,199 --> 01:13:26,440
other locations that would not disturb

1510
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:29,360
anybody.

1511
01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:31,120
Um, so you know, that's all I have to

1512
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,960
say. It's not very eloquent, but you

1513
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,719
know, this is since we moved into this

1514
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,159
house, it's been a problem and it's

1515
01:13:34,719 --> 01:13:37,760
pretty upsetting when you can't get a

1516
01:13:36,159 --> 01:13:40,000
good night's sleep uh and can't speak to

1517
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:42,880
your neighbor about it and can't depend

1518
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:45,920
on bylaw to help enforce things. So, I I

1519
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:47,800
we ask that you deny this variance and

1520
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:50,640
thank you very much. Thank you, Miss

1521
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:54,480
Uvea. Um, anybody else wish to speak to

1522
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:56,080
the council on this matter?

1523
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:59,440
See no other members of the public

1524
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:01,600
wishing to speak. I will uh just bring

1525
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:02,960
it back to this table. We have the uh

1526
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,480
the report in front of us. I'm going to

1527
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,560
ask that we have a motion to receive the

1528
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:08,640
report. Thank you. Moved and seconded.

1529
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,080
All those in favor? Any opposed? Un

1530
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:12,239
opposed. I'll move the staff

1531
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:15,040
recommendation. Uh just to be clear,

1532
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:16,960
this is the uh to approve the variance.

1533
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,120
Moved. Is there a seconder for the move?

1534
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:21,520
Move and seconded. Motion is now live on

1535
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:23,040
the floor for debate. Go to councelor

1536
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:25,120
Smart.

1537
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:27,280
Yeah, thank you. I won't be supporting

1538
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,800
um uh the motion on the table. I already

1539
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:32,719
expressed concern when we recently

1540
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:35,120
revised our bylaws to the um 5t away

1541
01:14:32,719 --> 01:14:39,120
from the property line and and because

1542
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:41,040
there's not been enough room to create

1543
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,600
soundproofing when there are issues in

1544
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:46,560
this very situation. Um I also work in

1545
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:49,040
architecture. This comes up a lot. Um

1546
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:52,080
and I concur with the comments about a a

1547
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:53,920
fence um you know often if nothing else

1548
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:56,320
making uh the sound issues worse and

1549
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,400
certainly not better. Uh this is a

1550
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:00,960
quality of life issue for the neighbor

1551
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:02,560
and there are many other um locations

1552
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,640
particularly in the front yard that

1553
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:06,719
would be available without a variance

1554
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:10,080
that would have less impact on

1555
01:15:06,719 --> 01:15:12,159
neighbors. Um there is not enough space

1556
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,840
with this reduced variance to create

1557
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:16,560
what would be needed to mitigate the

1558
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:18,159
sound, which would be um a structure

1559
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,520
with insulation. There's a lot of

1560
01:15:18,159 --> 01:15:21,199
different structures out there, but in

1561
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:22,560
creating such a structure to mitigate

1562
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:24,719
the sound, you wouldn't be able to

1563
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:27,280
actually access access that side of the

1564
01:15:24,719 --> 01:15:31,400
house with such a small setback. So I'm

1565
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:31,400
not in favor of this.

1566
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:37,600
Thank you. Any other

1567
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:40,159
discussion, Appleton? No, thank you.

1568
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:44,000
worship. So, I too am not in favor of

1569
01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:45,440
the variance uh on the floor. If if for

1570
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,760
no other reason than I think it's really

1571
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:48,960
important we we as councelor Smart

1572
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,960
mentions, we've had we've had an

1573
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:53,840
extensive discussion around the council

1574
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:56,000
table quite recently about proper

1575
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:58,880
sighting and placement of heat pumps. Um

1576
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:00,880
and I think it's a timely one because

1577
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,800
with the push to electrification, you

1578
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:05,040
know, this is just going to become a

1579
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:09,120
very very significant issue. So I would

1580
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:11,199
like to see us be as consistent and as

1581
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,800
uh and following as closely as possible

1582
01:16:11,199 --> 01:16:16,239
the standard that council has just

1583
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:17,080
adopted. Thank you worship.

1584
01:16:16,239 --> 01:16:22,080
Thank

1585
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:22,080
you. Uh other discussion around the

1586
01:16:22,199 --> 01:16:28,159
table don't see any. Um thank you. Um I

1587
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,920
think there's anything I want to talk

1588
01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:32,400
this one I will just say I struggle with

1589
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:34,800
a little bit. I I hear the uh the

1590
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:37,199
comments made by my uh counselors around

1591
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:39,280
the table here um both sides of the

1592
01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:41,199
equation. I do I tend to be fairly

1593
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:44,800
flexible on these if the owner has gone

1594
01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:47,199
to significant lengths to reduce noise

1595
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,239
and um just recognize these are

1596
01:16:47,199 --> 01:16:51,040
sometimes difficult especially if

1597
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:52,800
they're replacing legacy. Um, so I think

1598
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:54,960
the owner has gone to lengths that they

1599
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:57,280
can to mitigate noise. And so the

1600
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,880
question then becomes whether or not we

1601
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,800
control this by the sighting in this

1602
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:03,920
situation or do we do it by the noise

1603
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:05,360
bylaw uh aspects of it. I think that's a

1604
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:07,440
tricky part about this. We are here

1605
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,960
considering the variance versus for

1606
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:10,960
sideyard. But it's really ultimately

1607
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:13,760
going to be the impact on the noise to

1608
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,800
the neighbors. So um I I struggle with

1609
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:16,159
that one. I'm not going to lie. I think

1610
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,719
there's there's pros and cons to both

1611
01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:20,320
sides of this equation. I'd be happy to

1612
01:17:18,719 --> 01:17:21,679
hear anybody else's thoughts before I

1613
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,320
call the question, but Oh, there we go.

1614
01:17:21,679 --> 01:17:26,400
Councelor Watson.

1615
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:30,719
Yeah, very interesting multifaceted

1616
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:33,440
issue. Um I um having heard an architect

1617
01:17:30,719 --> 01:17:36,480
speak and our own counselor SM speak on

1618
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:39,120
this issue um while I first thought you

1619
01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:42,239
know it's minor whatever just I I do

1620
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:44,800
think that um it makes sense to approve

1621
01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:46,800
it because if we grant the variance and

1622
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,640
there isn't and then there becomes an

1623
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:50,719
issue we do have a mechanism to deal

1624
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:53,520
with that and so then it's kind of in a

1625
01:17:50,719 --> 01:17:55,760
way at the owner's risk if they they've

1626
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:59,480
come with an application that that seems

1627
01:17:55,760 --> 01:18:02,920
in very in many ways minor and uh u with

1628
01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:06,159
um uh

1629
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:08,560
um cert sort of certifying or suggesting

1630
01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:13,040
that there won't be an issue if things

1631
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:15,360
are left as they are. Um so um I'm

1632
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:18,800
prepared to support the variance request

1633
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:21,360
and then um things will you know follow

1634
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:23,600
the course they follow. So that's my

1635
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:26,320
it's a more expedient approach to it I

1636
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:28,880
think but I'm happy to do that.

1637
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:31,840
Thank you, Council Patterson. Yes, thank

1638
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,840
you, Mayor. Um, you know, I'm I'm kind

1639
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:36,480
of on a third generation heat pump, I

1640
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:39,840
think, in the home that I'm in. And and

1641
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:42,640
obviously, the first two were um uh

1642
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:44,880
certainly produced more sound. However,

1643
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:47,360
the newer units, particularly if they

1644
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:51,199
are highquality units, are extremely

1645
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:55,040
quiet. And we do have many situations in

1646
01:18:51,199 --> 01:18:57,679
Oak Bay where um the installations of

1647
01:18:55,040 --> 01:19:00,320
the duct work etc inside the house were

1648
01:18:57,679 --> 01:19:03,840
done for where heat pumps were cited and

1649
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:06,880
we haven't until recently had um any

1650
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:10,000
guidance for for homeowners on that. So

1651
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:11,920
I will support this as it is and I

1652
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:14,719
believe as the staff recommendation

1653
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:17,520
before us and um I believe too that

1654
01:19:14,719 --> 01:19:20,560
there is uh remedy through the through

1655
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:23,199
the noise bylaw if that should occur.

1656
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:26,480
However, with with a quality system in

1657
01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:28,560
quality maintenance, it really should be

1658
01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:31,920
the the sound quality should be

1659
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:34,640
minimized. Thank you.

1660
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:37,360
Thank you. I don't see any other hands.

1661
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:38,480
I appreciate the the the debate. I'm

1662
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,400
going to call the question. The motion

1663
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:42,440
of the floor is to approve the variance

1664
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:44,960
as put here. All those in

1665
01:19:42,440 --> 01:19:47,199
favor and those opposed. I have

1666
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:49,520
councelor Smart and Appleton opposed.

1667
01:19:47,199 --> 01:19:52,080
That motion carries. With that, the

1668
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:53,760
variance is approved. Um I hope the two

1669
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,120
neighbors can have open communication.

1670
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,280
So if there is noise issues, you can

1671
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:59,600
share it and the owner of the heat pump

1672
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:02,239
can make any mitigations required to

1673
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:04,800
keep the neighbors happy. Moving on to

1674
01:20:02,239 --> 01:20:07,159
8.2, Two, we move to uh development

1675
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:12,040
variance permit DVP

1676
01:20:07,159 --> 01:20:15,679
0000001 175 at 1383. Oops,

1677
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:19,040
sorry, forgot to change my uh page 8.3

1678
01:20:15,679 --> 01:20:21,679
developments variant for DBP 00174 at

1679
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:24,719
1311 Victoria Avenue. Uh we have Mr.

1680
01:20:21,679 --> 01:20:26,640
Green again to introduce the matter.

1681
01:20:24,719 --> 01:20:28,080
Thank you, your worship. Uh the district

1682
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,600
has received a development variance

1683
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:32,960
permits application for the property

1684
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:35,120
located at 1311 Victoria Avenue. The

1685
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:37,159
requested variances are to facilitate a

1686
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:39,360
proposed accessory dwelling unit on the

1687
01:20:37,159 --> 01:20:41,280
property. The following variances are

1688
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:42,960
being requested by the applicant. A

1689
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:46,600
reduction to the required exterior

1690
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:49,760
sidelot lane setback from 3.7 m to 1.53

1691
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:54,159
m. An increase to the maximum permitted

1692
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:57,199
building height from 4.4 m to 5.71 m. a

1693
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:58,960
difference of 1.31 meters. Uh I should

1694
01:20:57,199 --> 01:21:01,920
note that the staff report noted a

1695
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:03,679
building height of 6.01 meters, but

1696
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:06,800
further plan checkers identified that

1697
01:21:03,679 --> 01:21:09,679
this should be 5.71 m lowering the

1698
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,360
proposed building height. And thirdly,

1699
01:21:09,679 --> 01:21:14,960
an increase to the maximum permitted

1700
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:18,080
roof height from 6 m to 7.23 m, a

1701
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:19,520
different a difference of 1.23 m. Mr.

1702
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:22,480
Green, can you just repeat those so we

1703
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:24,320
can jot them down? Yeah. A reduction to

1704
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:28,640
the required exterior sidelot line set

1705
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:30,159
back from 3.7 meters to 1.53 mters. An

1706
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:35,040
increase to the maximum permitted

1707
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:37,719
building height from 4.4 m to 5.71 m a

1708
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:40,320
difference of 1.31

1709
01:21:37,719 --> 01:21:44,480
m and an increase to the maximum

1710
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:47,840
permitted roof height from 6 m to 7.23 m

1711
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:50,239
a difference of 1.23 m. I should note

1712
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:53,679
also that the front west elevation join

1713
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:57,520
that is included in council's agenda uh

1714
01:21:53,679 --> 01:22:00,960
on attachment six uh in page 72 does

1715
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:03,760
show a peak roof of a peak of the roof

1716
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:05,840
beyond the 7.23 mters but the applicant

1717
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:08,480
has identified that this is an error and

1718
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:10,400
has resubmitted a revised building plan.

1719
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:12,000
Uh but I should note that this does not

1720
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:14,320
affect the variance that is being

1721
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,080
requested and which is correct in the

1722
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:18,120
staff report and the draft permit that

1723
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:20,239
is attached to the council

1724
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:22,239
report. Staff are recommending that the

1725
01:22:20,239 --> 01:22:24,360
v requested variances be supported and

1726
01:22:22,239 --> 01:22:27,840
development variance permit DVP

1727
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:29,760
00174 for 1311 Victoria having be be

1728
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,040
approved. Uh several pieces of

1729
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,400
correspondence have been received

1730
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:34,080
following the district giving notice of

1731
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,320
the application and which is attached to

1732
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:38,800
the council agenda. uh both the

1733
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:40,320
applicant and the owner are both here to

1734
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:42,560
answer any questions that council may

1735
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:43,840
have and I'm also happy to answer any

1736
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:46,800
questions that council may have on the

1737
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:48,320
application.

1738
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:51,040
Thank you very much Mr. Green. I have

1739
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:54,239
councelor Short to begin.

1740
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:56,480
Thank you um through Mayor to Mr. Green.

1741
01:22:54,239 --> 01:22:59,440
I was wondering if you could just remind

1742
01:22:56,480 --> 01:23:01,040
us we had an infill um bylaw before us.

1743
01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:04,400
I believe it was in February with

1744
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:06,400
regards to increasing the height of um

1745
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:09,280
ADUs and that went back for just one

1746
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:10,560
small request to look at permeable area

1747
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,000
percentages and it was going to come

1748
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:15,199
back to council in March. We haven't

1749
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:20,199
seen it yet. Um so I'm wondering if that

1750
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:23,040
bylaw had passed already um would this

1751
01:23:20,199 --> 01:23:24,400
um particular project be within height

1752
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:28,280
compliance for for building height and

1753
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:28,280
roof height? Thank you.

1754
01:23:29,199 --> 01:23:33,920
Mr. B or Mr. Green, my recollection is

1755
01:23:32,159 --> 01:23:35,760
some of that is completed, has it not?

1756
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,040
But any I'll hand it over to you. Yeah,

1757
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:38,239
through your worship, uh, obviously,

1758
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:42,080
yeah, February the 10th, council

1759
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:44,080
received an update on the infill uh uh

1760
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,800
infill program and some refinements to

1761
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:48,880
the bylaws and there was uh two changes

1762
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:51,679
to accessory dwelling units in relation

1763
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:53,679
to both roof height and building height.

1764
01:23:51,679 --> 01:23:56,080
Um, as I talk, I'm trying to remember

1765
01:23:53,679 --> 01:24:02,360
exactly. I believe there was increasing

1766
01:23:56,080 --> 01:24:04,800
the roof height from uh to 7.5

1767
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:08,639
m, but I can't remember what the

1768
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:09,920
building height change was.

1769
01:24:08,639 --> 01:24:12,960
Thank you. That answers my question

1770
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:16,159
enough. Appreciate it.

1771
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:17,679
Okay. Thank you. Uh are there any Yeah,

1772
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:19,040
go ahead. Councelor Breathweight. Um

1773
01:24:17,679 --> 01:24:20,880
thank you very much. I'm just wondering

1774
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:23,120
I mean looking at this um and we call

1775
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,800
this an ADU. Um, what's the difference

1776
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:27,800
between an ADU and a single family

1777
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,800
dwelling?

1778
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:33,199
Mr. Green, uh, through your worship, the

1779
01:24:31,679 --> 01:24:34,320
definition of an accessory dwelling

1780
01:24:33,199 --> 01:24:36,159
unit, it says that the accessory

1781
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:39,360
dwelling unit must be smaller than the

1782
01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:41,440
principal building on the lot, which in

1783
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,199
this case when you take the gross floor

1784
01:24:41,440 --> 01:24:45,280
area of the single family dwelling

1785
01:24:43,199 --> 01:24:47,360
compared to the gross floor area of the

1786
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:50,400
ADU, the ADU is smaller than the

1787
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:51,760
principal building.

1788
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:55,199
Thank you. And can you just remind me

1789
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:59,000
what the floor square area of the advis

1790
01:24:55,199 --> 01:24:59,000
of the ADU is?

1791
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:03,199
Mr. Green, do you have that information

1792
01:25:00,639 --> 01:25:06,000
handy?

1793
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:07,600
I think I've got it in my Let me just

1794
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:09,920
through your worshippers, give me one

1795
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:11,239
minute to find that um calculation.

1796
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:15,560
Total floor

1797
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:19,560
area 137.05 square meters or

1798
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:19,560
1475.2 ft.

1799
01:25:23,679 --> 01:25:27,920
Any other questions? Councley. Thank

1800
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:30,159
you.

1801
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:31,800
Go ahead, Councelor Watson. Uh, thank

1802
01:25:30,159 --> 01:25:34,159
you, Mayor

1803
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:37,600
Tharification. Could you just um please

1804
01:25:34,159 --> 01:25:39,679
let me know again for um what the

1805
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:41,760
maximum lot coverage is for this

1806
01:25:39,679 --> 01:25:47,320
property and what the maximum lot

1807
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:47,320
coverage is for the ADU on it by itself.

1808
01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:57,600
might be best if I ask the applicant to

1809
01:25:55,920 --> 01:26:00,400
answer that question if that's okay who

1810
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:02,080
is probably most familiar with the the

1811
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:04,000
drawings.

1812
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,760
Sure. I'm happy to welcome be Mr.

1813
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:09,719
Collins. We can be willing to come

1814
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:09,719
forward and answer that question.

1815
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:17,320
We have live landscaping coverage

1816
01:26:14,159 --> 01:26:21,239
required 20

1817
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:23,600
percent that has it here is 50%

1818
01:26:21,239 --> 01:26:25,120
but I can come back to that question if

1819
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,040
people want to look up the answers to it

1820
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:30,480
and because sometimes finding the exact

1821
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:33,880
number you're asking for the coverage

1822
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:33,880
coverage maximum

1823
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,560
we've made it more confusing with the

1824
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,080
live lot coverage and the paving

1825
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:43,080
percentages

1826
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:43,080
So,

1827
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:01,920
Mr. Green, welcome back.

1828
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:03,520
Yes. So, the proposed lot coverage is

1829
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:08,639
37.7

1830
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:11,120
uh% and the requirement is 40%.

1831
01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:13,040
Thank you. Anything else? Counc is there

1832
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:15,280
anything in is there anything about the

1833
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:18,719
lot coverage for an ADU or is it just

1834
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:21,040
all included as one total?

1835
01:27:18,719 --> 01:27:21,040
Mr.

1836
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:26,639
Deip, it's a lot coverage of the site.

1837
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:28,239
However, there is that essentially when

1838
01:27:26,639 --> 01:27:29,760
the infill bylaws were presented to

1839
01:27:28,239 --> 01:27:31,440
council where council wanted to retain

1840
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:34,400
an existing single family dwelling.

1841
01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:36,320
There is that ability to um increase the

1842
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:38,159
lot coverage by an additional 10% if the

1843
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:40,159
single existing single family home is

1844
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:42,320
being retained. But it does that doesn't

1845
01:27:40,159 --> 01:27:43,760
mean to say that the ADU then has a lot

1846
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:46,639
coverage of 10%. It means that the

1847
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:48,800
overall site has a maximum of 10 of 40%.

1848
01:27:46,639 --> 01:27:50,880
So this could go up to just to clarif

1849
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:52,239
for for this site this could be 50% and

1850
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:56,960
that would still be within the bylaw

1851
01:27:52,239 --> 01:28:00,320
framework. Yes. 40 + 10. No, it's 40%.

1852
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:01,760
30 plus 10%. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

1853
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:02,960
Thank you for that clarifying questions.

1854
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:04,320
We're also getting used to the new

1855
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:05,840
rules. Uh go ahead, Council

1856
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:08,239
Braithweight. Oh, thank you. I did have

1857
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:11,520
one other question. Um I I noticed that

1858
01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:14,480
this is this is set very far far back at

1859
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,639
the back of the lot. And I wonder um why

1860
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:18,239
it was not and it's it tends to be up on

1861
01:28:16,639 --> 01:28:20,080
a little bit of a hill. Um, and I'm

1862
01:28:18,239 --> 01:28:23,360
wondering why it was not moved a little

1863
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:24,639
bit closer to the um, main residence so

1864
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:28,800
that it wouldn't have as much of an

1865
01:28:24,639 --> 01:28:30,400
impact on um, on 2144 Brighton.

1866
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,840
The why questions I have to give to the

1867
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:34,840
applicant. So, why don't you come

1868
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,840
forward

1869
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,960
for your worship? I think that question

1870
01:28:36,159 --> 01:28:41,120
is best answered by Mr. Collins that to

1871
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:42,400
do so. Um, for the record, can you just

1872
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:44,159
state your name and municipality

1873
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:46,560
residence at the beginning of your Russ

1874
01:28:44,159 --> 01:28:48,679
Collins from Zebra Design? Thank you.

1875
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:52,159
Thank you.

1876
01:28:48,679 --> 01:28:54,400
Um, so sorry, the question was was why

1877
01:28:52,159 --> 01:28:56,800
was it situated uh so far back on the

1878
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:58,960
lot um as opposed to because we want to

1879
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:00,960
save the trees that are on the property.

1880
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:02,719
As it is, we're affecting two trees

1881
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:05,199
where we put it and if we put it any

1882
01:29:02,719 --> 01:29:06,719
closer closer to the other house, we're

1883
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:10,280
going to start losing some fairly

1884
01:29:06,719 --> 01:29:10,280
substantial trees.

1885
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:14,080
Thank you. I'll let you stay there for a

1886
01:29:12,719 --> 01:29:16,159
moment as we get see if there's any

1887
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:18,080
other questions. Uh any other questions

1888
01:29:16,159 --> 01:29:20,320
directed to the applicant or to staff at

1889
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:20,320
this

1890
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:27,199
time? Can I just have one question which

1891
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,760
just relate regarding the glazing? Uh

1892
01:29:27,199 --> 01:29:31,920
appreciate the efforts made here uh on

1893
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:34,719
reducing glazing facing onto the the two

1894
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:37,520
neighboring properties. Um can you share

1895
01:29:34,719 --> 01:29:39,120
uh what um what overlook that is? Are

1896
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:41,679
those frequently used rooms or would

1897
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:43,120
they be relatively lightly used um rooms

1898
01:29:41,679 --> 01:29:44,639
that are that would be doing the

1899
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:48,000
overlook?

1900
01:29:44,639 --> 01:29:49,840
Oh, sorry. Uh, just curious about the um

1901
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:51,840
the nature of the I said I appreciate

1902
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:53,600
the the reduced glazing on looking onto

1903
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,719
neighboring properties, but I am just

1904
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,880
curious a little bit on the second

1905
01:29:54,719 --> 01:29:58,639
story. What is the the nature of those

1906
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:01,120
those windows? Are they looking over

1907
01:29:58,639 --> 01:30:04,320
like are they sort of uh high social

1908
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:05,840
area uh windows or are they um you know

1909
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:08,159
intended to be sort of like bedrooms and

1910
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:11,679
and bathroom windows? All of the main

1911
01:30:08,159 --> 01:30:14,639
windows of of the proposed um ADU face

1912
01:30:11,679 --> 01:30:18,000
either the street or internally to the

1913
01:30:14,639 --> 01:30:19,600
other house. We only have um one window

1914
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,360
on the second floor which is at the end

1915
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:22,480
of a hallway as you turn to go down the

1916
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:23,920
stairs. So, it's something that you're

1917
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:25,679
going to be passing by. You're not going

1918
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:28,600
to be standing there staring at the

1919
01:30:25,679 --> 01:30:31,120
neighbor. And then um I'm trying to

1920
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:34,000
remember what was on the other There's

1921
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:37,000
one top left glazing on the uh south

1922
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,000
elevation.

1923
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,960
Yeah, we have a sewing room that is

1924
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:47,520
facing the

1925
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:48,880
um north property and then there's a a

1926
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:50,159
dining room windows that are going to be

1927
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:52,560
facing the north property, but there's

1928
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:54,080
also going to be a fence like six foot

1929
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,199
high fence. So, that window in the

1930
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:57,360
dining room shouldn't be have any

1931
01:30:55,199 --> 01:30:58,560
overlook to the neighbor to the north.

1932
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:00,639
Right. I was just thinking of second

1933
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:03,280
story windows at this case. So, okay. I

1934
01:31:00,639 --> 01:31:05,199
appreciate the answers. Okay.

1935
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:07,199
Um, yeah, Council Watson, and then I'll

1936
01:31:05,199 --> 01:31:08,400
go to I keep glancing down and seeing

1937
01:31:07,199 --> 01:31:09,840
council, your your name tags are

1938
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,120
switched, so councelor Appleton's name

1939
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:12,639
is in front of you, so it keeps throwing

1940
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:15,120
me off when I look down. Go ahead,

1941
01:31:12,639 --> 01:31:17,440
councelor Watson. As long as the votes

1942
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:19,679
are recorded properly. Um, uh, thank

1943
01:31:17,440 --> 01:31:21,360
you. I have one further question for

1944
01:31:19,679 --> 01:31:25,199
probably Oh, no, it'll be for the

1945
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:30,400
applicant actually. um uh in terms of

1946
01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:34,239
the um effect of the requested increases

1947
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:37,040
in height on the neighbor uh immediately

1948
01:31:34,239 --> 01:31:39,120
adjacent to the east. There's quite a

1949
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:41,560
lot of slope between those two lots and

1950
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:45,159
I just wonder um

1951
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:48,960
uh what will happen to their

1952
01:31:45,159 --> 01:31:51,280
outlook on that in that last I guess um

1953
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,800
1.3 meters that are that would be added

1954
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:54,520
above what you would be allowed as of

1955
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,960
right if you could give me a sense of

1956
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:59,520
that. they've got they've got they're

1957
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:01,280
facing looking west into the evening sun

1958
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:03,040
and and the you know I guess south kind

1959
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:04,480
of west southwest really they're

1960
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:06,080
capturing that and I just kind of want

1961
01:32:04,480 --> 01:32:10,360
to know what the impact would be of that

1962
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:13,280
additional amount you're requesting. So,

1963
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,719
um, one of the things I guess I was I

1964
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:18,000
wasn't quite sure how it was answered

1965
01:32:14,719 --> 01:32:19,600
earlier. The question about the, um, why

1966
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:21,600
did we pick these heights that we're

1967
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:23,120
proposing? It's, it is because it was

1968
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,960
the height that we thought was going to

1969
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:26,960
be in front of council and approved by

1970
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:28,719
now. We didn't actually expect that we'd

1971
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:31,440
be asking for variances on this at this

1972
01:32:28,719 --> 01:32:33,360
point. It just turned out that that

1973
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:35,120
hasn't come to council yet for approval.

1974
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:36,760
So, that's what our variances were

1975
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:39,120
applied for.

1976
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:40,719
Um, we do have a hip roof which is

1977
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:42,480
sloping away from the neighbor. So, it's

1978
01:32:40,719 --> 01:32:44,080
not like we don't have a gable facing

1979
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:47,120
them. We we're trying to keep the height

1980
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:50,120
as minimal as possible. We've also

1981
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:52,800
designed this ADU with only 8ft

1982
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:55,040
ceilings. So, there's no standard height

1983
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:57,360
nowadays in a regular house is 9 ft on

1984
01:32:55,040 --> 01:33:00,159
the main floor, sometimes 10 and 9 ft

1985
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:02,560
upper floors. We're proposing 8T and 8T,

1986
01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:07,120
which is basically minimum that you'd

1987
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:07,120
want to have for a a ceiling height.

1988
01:33:07,679 --> 01:33:12,639
Thank you. Anything else? Councelor

1989
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:14,800
Wilson. Go to councelor Green.

1990
01:33:12,639 --> 01:33:17,760
Thank you very much. Um first of all,

1991
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:20,239
just to councelor um Smart's earlier

1992
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:22,560
question about the the bylaw coming or

1993
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:26,080
yes, the bylaw coming back to us through

1994
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:27,840
you to Mr. Green. Um could you tell us

1995
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:34,360
when that bylaw might be coming back to

1996
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:34,360
us then on on height? Um thank you.

1997
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:40,320
Mr. Green. Yeah, we've just been uh

1998
01:33:38,480 --> 01:33:42,800
working with our design on the uh

1999
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:44,639
addressing council um sent by those

2000
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:46,080
bylaws back for some refinement in

2001
01:33:44,639 --> 01:33:48,000
relation to the impermanal servicing.

2002
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:49,520
So, we are hoping to bring those bylaws

2003
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,159
back for council's consideration of

2004
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:55,360
readings in sometime in June, the

2005
01:33:52,159 --> 01:33:59,040
current timetable.

2006
01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:01,679
Um, just further, I happen to know 2144

2007
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:03,120
on Brighton because uh, Fred and I tried

2008
01:34:01,679 --> 01:34:05,360
to buy that little house when we first

2009
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:08,080
moved here. So, we've been through it a

2010
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:09,679
lot and we know it well. My concern

2011
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:13,280
follows on the questions from councelor

2012
01:34:09,679 --> 01:34:16,280
Watson and that is light um and evening

2013
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:18,960
sun and shadowing and and that kind of

2014
01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:20,960
thing because if we look at the house on

2015
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,280
granite across the street, they have

2016
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:26,000
lost all of their light to the west

2017
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:27,920
because of height. So, I'm just hoping

2018
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:30,239
that perhaps

2019
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:33,040
um you you could assure us that that

2020
01:34:30,239 --> 01:34:36,000
isn't going to happen to 2144 Brighton

2021
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:39,360
because um Evening Sun I I think there's

2022
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:40,800
also quite an active garden on at 2144.

2023
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:43,520
I'm sure there are gardens on both

2024
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:45,760
properties, but I think that would be a

2025
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:48,560
concern, the overlook and the loss of

2026
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:49,960
light. Thank you.

2027
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,800
Go ahead,

2028
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:56,199
Mr. Push the button. Sorry about that.

2029
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:59,360
Um, we've also kept the the

2030
01:34:56,199 --> 01:35:01,440
the full depth of the house quite narrow

2031
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:04,400
at that point when it comes closer to

2032
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:06,960
the lot so that the actual depth of the

2033
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:08,639
house is is um an additional looks like

2034
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:10,679
at least 10 ft further away from the

2035
01:35:08,639 --> 01:35:13,120
property line as it comes towards

2036
01:35:10,679 --> 01:35:15,840
Brighton. So, we tried to minimize the

2037
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:18,560
the depth of it. It's only 23 I believe

2038
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:20,239
23 feet deep that portion of the house.

2039
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:24,320
It's very small. That's the depth of

2040
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:24,320
like a a double car garage

2041
01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:29,440
basically. And also, if you look on the

2042
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:31,840
site plan that we're showing, it says

2043
01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:33,440
where it says number 2144, you can see

2044
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:35,920
the the line that's drawn there. That's

2045
01:35:33,440 --> 01:35:37,600
the edge of that existing house. And

2046
01:35:35,920 --> 01:35:40,800
there's quite a distance between the two

2047
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:42,719
houses. It's actually very close, if not

2048
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:45,360
the same, as what you'd expect between

2049
01:35:42,719 --> 01:35:47,440
houses anywhere in Oak Bay. Like a 5ft

2050
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:49,360
setback on one side and 10t close to 10

2051
01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:51,679
ft on the other. So, it's very normal if

2052
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:54,239
if these were lots that all ran this

2053
01:35:51,679 --> 01:35:55,840
way, that would be very normal to have

2054
01:35:54,239 --> 01:35:58,080
the house placed that close to the other

2055
01:35:55,840 --> 01:36:00,080
one. Thanks very much. I appreciate

2056
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:02,880
that.

2057
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:04,719
Thank you. I'm not seeing a lot other

2058
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,239
questions popping up here. So, perhaps

2059
01:36:04,719 --> 01:36:07,760
the applicant can sit and we'll if

2060
01:36:06,239 --> 01:36:09,760
there's any members of the public who

2061
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:12,080
wish to speak to council on this matter.

2062
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:13,280
All is subject to public input. So, I

2063
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:15,600
see a hand raised. Why don't you come

2064
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,639
forward?

2065
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:19,040
You can just state your name and

2066
01:36:16,639 --> 01:36:20,159
municipality of residence and uh you

2067
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:22,440
have up to three minutes to talk to

2068
01:36:20,159 --> 01:36:24,960
council.

2069
01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:27,199
Uh that's good. We can hear you. Yep. My

2070
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:29,760
name is Mitchell Tempmpkin. I uh a

2071
01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:32,080
resident of Oak Bay. I live at uh 1311

2072
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:33,679
Victoria Avenue. I am in the homeowner

2073
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:36,400
the homeowner of the house under

2074
01:36:33,679 --> 01:36:38,520
question. And I just like to make a a

2075
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:42,639
few quick points.

2076
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:44,239
Um, one is I would just like to restate

2077
01:36:42,639 --> 01:36:46,159
because this is very very important to

2078
01:36:44,239 --> 01:36:48,840
us that the purpose of our building, the

2079
01:36:46,159 --> 01:36:51,440
successory dwelling unit is to enable

2080
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:54,400
intergenerational living. Our daughter

2081
01:36:51,440 --> 01:36:56,480
and her husband were raised in Oak Bay.

2082
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:58,800
He was born there. Ours wasn't. They

2083
01:36:56,480 --> 01:37:00,719
have three small children. Uh, they

2084
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:02,480
currently live in the Nimo. They have an

2085
01:37:00,719 --> 01:37:05,119
opportunity through his work to come

2086
01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:06,880
back to Victoria. They would love to

2087
01:37:05,119 --> 01:37:08,880
move back to Oak Bay where all their

2088
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:11,360
friends are, but like so many young

2089
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:14,800
people now, they can't afford to do it.

2090
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:16,960
Uh the fi the dynamics of this project

2091
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:18,960
will allow them to do it. I don't need

2092
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:21,840
to go into the details, but I'm happy to

2093
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:25,320
explain afterwards to anyone. So, this

2094
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:27,280
is uh very important for us for

2095
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:29,920
intergenerational living and for our

2096
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:31,840
support as we grow older. I also think

2097
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:33,600
it's really important for the community

2098
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:36,480
that there be intergenerational

2099
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:39,360
succession. If people who have grown up

2100
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:41,440
in Oak Bay, um ultimately when they go

2101
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:44,239
out into the work world can't afford to

2102
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:47,440
move back here or to live here at all,

2103
01:37:44,239 --> 01:37:50,560
um the uh whole community I think will

2104
01:37:47,440 --> 01:37:53,840
lose a lot of its vitality and could

2105
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:56,320
become sort of a monotone a monotone

2106
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:57,920
enclave for the wealthy, which I'm sure

2107
01:37:56,320 --> 01:38:00,639
is, you know, we're halfway there

2108
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:02,880
already. it's not entirely desirable.

2109
01:38:00,639 --> 01:38:06,400
So, that's is extremely important for us

2110
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:08,639
that our grandkids will be there. Uh,

2111
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:11,119
someone asked a question about why we

2112
01:38:08,639 --> 01:38:13,679
didn't want to move the house, the new

2113
01:38:11,119 --> 01:38:16,080
dwelling closer to the existing house.

2114
01:38:13,679 --> 01:38:19,040
Uh Russ said, "Yes, there are three

2115
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:21,840
mature Gary Oaks in the way, but by

2116
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:26,080
positioning the houses as we have, um we

2117
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:28,560
have uh an interior safe play space in a

2118
01:38:26,080 --> 01:38:31,280
yard for our grandchildren between the

2119
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:34,080
two houses where there is eyes on."

2120
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:36,960
Someone in a submission suggested that

2121
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:39,440
we, you know, move the house only, you

2122
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:42,239
know, 3.17 meters or whatever the code

2123
01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:44,560
requirement is from the existing house.

2124
01:38:42,239 --> 01:38:47,679
um really then the grandchildren don't

2125
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:50,480
have a safe play area anymore if we do

2126
01:38:47,679 --> 01:38:52,639
that. So trees and grandchildren um

2127
01:38:50,480 --> 01:38:57,199
along with puppies everybody loves them

2128
01:38:52,639 --> 01:39:01,000
but th those are our our reasons. Um

2129
01:38:57,199 --> 01:39:04,480
um uh when I read some of the comments

2130
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:06,199
uh that were submitted uh regarding our

2131
01:39:04,480 --> 01:39:09,520
plan,

2132
01:39:06,199 --> 01:39:12,639
um many people seem to think uh either

2133
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:15,440
by uh misapprehension or misinformation

2134
01:39:12,639 --> 01:39:18,360
perhaps that we have actually requested

2135
01:39:15,440 --> 01:39:23,199
a setback variance along the property

2136
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:26,159
line between our lot and 2144. But the

2137
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:30,000
the setback along that property line is

2138
01:39:26,159 --> 01:39:33,040
as per code. And you know, when I walk

2139
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:35,679
around Oak Bay, I have my guess is that

2140
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:38,159
the majority of Oak Bay residents live

2141
01:39:35,679 --> 01:39:41,199
in houses that are appro approximately

2142
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:45,760
6, seven or 8 m from their neighbors

2143
01:39:41,199 --> 01:39:49,280
next door. This is by design. This is

2144
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:52,719
often the case for twostory houses of,

2145
01:39:49,280 --> 01:39:56,000
you know, different heights. um and uh

2146
01:39:52,719 --> 01:39:58,400
it is actually completely normal and I

2147
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:02,480
don't see why there should be uh a

2148
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:04,600
special exception in this case. Um

2149
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:07,199
finally, the last

2150
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:09,840
uh question I'd like to address is the

2151
01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:12,400
one of the mass of the houses because

2152
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:15,920
some people have remarked to me, well,

2153
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:17,679
it's just too big. It's just too big. Uh

2154
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:21,119
too big for what is the question. We're

2155
01:40:17,679 --> 01:40:23,760
surrounded by very large houses. uh uh

2156
01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:26,679
compared to which both 2144 and our

2157
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:32,800
proposed new house look dimminitive

2158
01:40:26,679 --> 01:40:34,880
frankly. Um um and the fact is that you

2159
01:40:32,800 --> 01:40:38,800
know thinking just about the visual mass

2160
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:41,320
of the house uh uh what we're proposing

2161
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:45,760
is very similar to the house at

2162
01:40:41,320 --> 01:40:50,239
2144. Two houses side by side per code

2163
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:53,280
uh of similar proportions. Uh the the

2164
01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:58,320
footprint at 2144 is a little smaller,

2165
01:40:53,280 --> 01:41:02,000
650 ft. I believe we're 740 something

2166
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:05,840
something like that. But um the uh house

2167
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:08,440
at 2144 uh the footprint is L-shaped,

2168
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:12,880
meaning the exterior perimeter walls are

2169
01:41:08,440 --> 01:41:17,520
longer. Um and they have a I believe a

2170
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:20,159
gable end on the to the roof on the side

2171
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:22,960
facing our lot. So you know the the

2172
01:41:20,159 --> 01:41:25,119
visual perception of mass of that house

2173
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:27,119
is pretty much going to be identical uh

2174
01:41:25,119 --> 01:41:29,440
to the visual perception of mass in our

2175
01:41:27,119 --> 01:41:34,560
house. I think the point is actually

2176
01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:37,600
moot. Um uh the the house at 2144 also

2177
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:39,520
sits very close almost upon the road and

2178
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:41,360
we're even with the variance that we

2179
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:45,520
have requested

2180
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:47,920
uh uh along Brighton Avenue. Um we still

2181
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:51,199
sit farther back than that house and

2182
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:53,760
there is uh you know going to be light

2183
01:41:51,199 --> 01:41:55,679
uh entering there. Uh the question of

2184
01:41:53,760 --> 01:42:00,800
light is is also interesting to me

2185
01:41:55,679 --> 01:42:04,719
because right now we have a massive uh

2186
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:06,560
mature uh uh arbutus which we're going

2187
01:42:04,719 --> 01:42:08,840
to lose if we build this house. I

2188
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:11,119
completely regret it. We had long

2189
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:15,040
conversations with the arborist about

2190
01:42:11,119 --> 01:42:19,199
how it might be saved. Um and his advice

2191
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:22,159
was that uh it would be risky to try to

2192
01:42:19,199 --> 01:42:24,800
do so. trying to save it would probably

2193
01:42:22,159 --> 01:42:27,040
weaken it. And it's already lost two

2194
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:30,560
large limbs which have fallen on on our

2195
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:33,880
outuildings now. So, um it's going to go

2196
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:37,920
it blocks already an enormous amount of

2197
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:40,080
light in the afternoon from the west. Um

2198
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:42,159
when it goes, we can't grow anything

2199
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:44,719
under it. No vegetables, no grass,

2200
01:42:42,159 --> 01:42:45,600
nothing. Um when it goes, Mr. Tin, I'm

2201
01:42:44,719 --> 01:42:46,560
going to ask you just to kind of wrap it

2202
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:49,119
up. You know, come back to you for

2203
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:54,800
questions if there are any, but wrap it

2204
01:42:49,119 --> 01:42:56,639
up. I think that yes there will be

2205
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:58,560
uh there there will be more light due to

2206
01:42:56,639 --> 01:43:00,159
the loss of the arbutus. There will be

2207
01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:02,800
less light due to the structure of the

2208
01:43:00,159 --> 01:43:04,560
building. But with respect to the to

2209
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:06,960
shadows between buildings, they are

2210
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:08,880
reciprocal between buildings. We won't

2211
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:12,000
have morning light. They'll have less

2212
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:15,520
afternoon light. Um you know it's it's

2213
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:18,000
sort of equal. Thank you very much.

2214
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:19,679
Mr. Hamkin. Others wishing to speak

2215
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:23,000
either online or in person are welcome

2216
01:43:19,679 --> 01:43:23,000
to come forward.

2217
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:29,600
I'm hearing mumbling but no hands.

2218
01:43:27,440 --> 01:43:32,480
There's somebody coming forward. There

2219
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:34,320
we go.

2220
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:36,080
If you can come forward. Same process as

2221
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:38,719
before. Just the name and municipality

2222
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:40,639
of residents and uh just asking people

2223
01:43:38,719 --> 01:43:43,639
to speak to the variances which is the

2224
01:43:40,639 --> 01:43:46,880
the uh sideyard setback and

2225
01:43:43,639 --> 01:43:49,199
heights. Welcome.

2226
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:51,199
Thank you. My name is Helen Richardson,

2227
01:43:49,199 --> 01:43:53,920
although I'm commonly called Jake. So,

2228
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:57,199
you're all very welcome to call me that.

2229
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:58,880
Uh, my comments are extremely brief

2230
01:43:57,199 --> 01:44:02,719
because you should have in front of you

2231
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:06,960
a full presentation of written letters,

2232
01:44:02,719 --> 01:44:10,960
uh, some dimensional uh, notations and

2233
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:13,679
also some simulations of what the mass

2234
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:15,040
of this proposed building is going to

2235
01:44:13,679 --> 01:44:17,679
look at.

2236
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:21,639
So, I've been a homeowner and a taxpayer

2237
01:44:17,679 --> 01:44:25,440
obviously uh in Oak Bay since

2238
01:44:21,639 --> 01:44:29,000
1978. Uh Mitchell's right. There have

2239
01:44:25,440 --> 01:44:30,600
been some uh some misinformation, some

2240
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:34,000
confusion,

2241
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:35,840
misconceptions, whatever. Uh in the

2242
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,080
immediate neighborhood regarding the

2243
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:39,679
application, but we have several people

2244
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:42,400
here tonight from the neighborhood and

2245
01:44:39,679 --> 01:44:44,320
they can speak to you about that if they

2246
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:46,880
so wish.

2247
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:50,480
I need to say that I obviously would

2248
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:52,280
prefer not to have any trees lost and

2249
01:44:50,480 --> 01:44:55,280
not to have any

2250
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:57,440
building because

2251
01:44:55,280 --> 01:45:01,199
uh but there's nothing we can do about

2252
01:44:57,440 --> 01:45:05,600
that. Mr. Eie tells us what to do on

2253
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:09,280
that. Okay. Now, Mitchell and I have

2254
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:12,080
been good neighbors for 20 years. We

2255
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:15,560
still have each other's house keys. and

2256
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:18,719
I thought the trust that that

2257
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:21,440
implies. Nonetheless, one day in April,

2258
01:45:18,719 --> 01:45:24,480
Mitchell announced, "We are building and

2259
01:45:21,440 --> 01:45:26,360
laid out drawings on my kitchen table."

2260
01:45:24,480 --> 01:45:29,600
Seemingly a fate to

2261
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:30,639
complete. No notice. M. Richardson, I'm

2262
01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:32,400
just going to ask in the interest of

2263
01:45:30,639 --> 01:45:34,239
time if we can just speak to the varian.

2264
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:35,920
I am under three minutes. Oh, no. I just

2265
01:45:34,239 --> 01:45:37,040
just for the interest of of just because

2266
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:38,159
we have a decision to make on the

2267
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:39,760
variances. The more you can speak to the

2268
01:45:38,159 --> 01:45:41,840
variances themselves, the that more this

2269
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:44,080
helps us. Okay. Thank you. I'm sure

2270
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:46,719
you're familiar with the technicalities

2271
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:49,199
of this application which largely ignore

2272
01:45:46,719 --> 01:45:51,520
the Oak Bay guidelines for infill

2273
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:56,239
housing. I have a big problem with that

2274
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:59,199
and certainly the spirit of it and uh to

2275
01:45:56,239 --> 01:46:01,800
acknowledge uh Councelor Green, let us

2276
01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:05,360
avoid any semblance of the sighting

2277
01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:09,520
tragedy that was visited upon 2149

2278
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:13,280
Granite Street. Built as drawn, and this

2279
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:18,000
is a fact. Two, this twostory over

2280
01:46:13,280 --> 01:46:20,719
height 1,800 square feet 1814 actually

2281
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:24,560
house will block significant light and

2282
01:46:20,719 --> 01:46:27,600
air and completely obliterate the view

2283
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:31,040
from my living room windows. The view is

2284
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:34,639
of that abutist tree.

2285
01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:37,119
It is sufficiently large that I don't

2286
01:46:34,639 --> 01:46:40,719
even have any window coverings because I

2287
01:46:37,119 --> 01:46:41,960
don't need it. I have the arbutus. Okay,

2288
01:46:40,719 --> 01:46:45,280
you've seen the

2289
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:46,960
illustrations. I presume I can't imagine

2290
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:48,280
why my neighbors want to live that close

2291
01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:52,280
to me.

2292
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:57,199
Besides, okay,

2293
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:59,920
now in closing, I guess my house is the

2294
01:46:57,199 --> 01:47:03,760
ultimate downsize, and it's my

2295
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:07,320
affordable home. It costs me onethird of

2296
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:13,199
my income to maintain ownership of my

2297
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:15,280
850 ft house on a 2400 square foot lot.

2298
01:47:13,199 --> 01:47:18,400
Not sure that'll hold after this year's

2299
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:20,880
tax bill, but we'll see.

2300
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:23,920
This is very important. The streetscape

2301
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:27,080
of this portion of the Centennial Trail

2302
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:29,760
on the Brighton on the Brighton

2303
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:32,760
Greenway. This trail is enjoyed by

2304
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:36,800
walkers and runners including the school

2305
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:40,080
teams. Okay. Dogs, cyclists, garden

2306
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:42,719
gazers and liloos of all kinds and

2307
01:47:40,080 --> 01:47:44,639
mobilities.

2308
01:47:42,719 --> 01:47:46,600
Proincially, this does nothing to

2309
01:47:44,639 --> 01:47:49,280
address density or

2310
01:47:46,600 --> 01:47:52,960
affordability. It will simply devalue my

2311
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:56,639
house in dollar terms. And a good thing,

2312
01:47:52,960 --> 01:48:00,080
it would give Oak Bay uh one unit for

2313
01:47:56,639 --> 01:48:02,880
their density quotota. Okay. Please

2314
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:06,400
consider my request for improved

2315
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:08,960
sighting, which also precludes paving

2316
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:10,960
over Paradise for at least some of the

2317
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:13,840
parking.

2318
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:17,040
I bought this house 20 years ago,

2319
01:48:13,840 --> 01:48:20,760
setting myself up to age in place. Now

2320
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:23,920
I'm over 80. I feel like I'm being

2321
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:27,320
evicted. All I want is to live out my

2322
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:30,600
days in peace in my small affordable

2323
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:33,840
home in this little slice of Oak

2324
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:33,840
Bay. Thank

2325
01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:39,199
you very much, Miss Richardson. I think

2326
01:48:37,199 --> 01:48:41,280
I saw a second hand popping up. Anybody

2327
01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:44,600
else wish to come forward to speak?

2328
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:44,600
Please do.

2329
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:51,040
Welcome and municipality and then

2330
01:48:49,679 --> 01:48:52,800
speaking to the variances. It's helpful

2331
01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:54,320
sometimes if we have the upfront if you

2332
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:56,960
if you know if you're for or against the

2333
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:59,440
variances being requested. Okay. Uh my

2334
01:48:56,960 --> 01:49:04,239
name is Steven. Uh I am a resident of

2335
01:48:59,440 --> 01:49:07,119
Victoria uh on the Oak Bay board. Um uh

2336
01:49:04,239 --> 01:49:10,800
I am currently against uh the

2337
01:49:07,119 --> 01:49:14,239
application uh simply because of the

2338
01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:18,000
size of the building and there was some

2339
01:49:14,239 --> 01:49:20,400
question about whether this ADU is

2340
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:22,480
larger than the main house and I never

2341
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:24,960
did I didn't get a solid answer from

2342
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:27,639
that but according to the application

2343
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:30,600
the main house is 1400 something square

2344
01:49:27,639 --> 01:49:33,360
feet and the ADU is

2345
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:37,040
1,814 square ft which tells me it's

2346
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:38,320
larger than the main house.

2347
01:49:37,040 --> 01:49:40,400
I might just turn that question to

2348
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:42,080
staff. Um or if you want to continue or

2349
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:44,639
finish your speaking, I can I can deal

2350
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:48,000
with No, that that's the main the main

2351
01:49:44,639 --> 01:49:49,600
point uh I have. The the drawings do

2352
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:51,440
seem to indicate that the but I'm not

2353
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:53,360
sure if that's the way that the old

2354
01:49:51,440 --> 01:49:54,960
house is measured uh that they include

2355
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:56,960
the the total size is including a

2356
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:59,119
basement or something. But Mr. green

2357
01:49:56,960 --> 01:50:00,719
then the the supplied drawings do show

2358
01:49:59,119 --> 01:50:02,880
and my apologies I read out the wrong

2359
01:50:00,719 --> 01:50:06,159
number that the I I read the existing

2360
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:08,960
house not the new house exactly yeah Mr.

2361
01:50:06,159 --> 01:50:10,800
Can you just confirm that? I mean, sure.

2362
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:12,639
Yeah. Through your worship. Yeah. We

2363
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:14,800
believe the the gross flow area for the

2364
01:50:12,639 --> 01:50:20,320
existing single family dwelling is just

2365
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:23,440
over 272 m and the ADU is uh just over

2366
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:24,960
168 square meters.

2367
01:50:23,440 --> 01:50:26,480
So, but that's not what the application

2368
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:28,719
says. That's not what the actual drawing

2369
01:50:26,480 --> 01:50:30,320
says. So, why don't you continue your

2370
01:50:28,719 --> 01:50:32,880
comments and I may just turn to the to

2371
01:50:30,320 --> 01:50:35,960
the applicant afterwards and and uh get

2372
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:39,199
that clarification for sure. Okay.

2373
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:42,400
Um so when I reviewed uh that

2374
01:50:39,199 --> 01:50:44,719
application that's uh one of the issues

2375
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:48,000
I saw with the application. The second

2376
01:50:44,719 --> 01:50:52,560
issue uh was the uh building height

2377
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:56,880
which I believe was corrected. Uh the

2378
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:58,320
uh building height was measured from the

2379
01:50:56,880 --> 01:51:02,159
you can direct your question at me and I

2380
01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:05,719
can the main floor uh elevation and not

2381
01:51:02,159 --> 01:51:08,480
the uh um average grade

2382
01:51:05,719 --> 01:51:09,639
elevation. So there was a discrepancy in

2383
01:51:08,480 --> 01:51:13,040
in that

2384
01:51:09,639 --> 01:51:17,600
measurement. Uh and the there was one

2385
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:22,600
comment made that the uh setbacks uh on

2386
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:25,679
the exterior lot line

2387
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:29,440
uh it's quite a quite a significant

2388
01:51:25,679 --> 01:51:30,960
intrusion into the exterior lot line and

2389
01:51:29,440 --> 01:51:31,800
the

2390
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:35,040
uh

2391
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:38,400
that uh intrusion into the exterior lot

2392
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:41,159
line causes a lot more light to be

2393
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:44,960
blocked from the neighboring house, the

2394
01:51:41,159 --> 01:51:47,679
2144. So, u the house itself looks

2395
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:49,599
fantastic. It looks like a really nice,

2396
01:51:47,679 --> 01:51:52,320
attractive house. It does suit the

2397
01:51:49,599 --> 01:51:55,480
neighborhood. Uh I think moving that

2398
01:51:52,320 --> 01:52:00,239
house further away from uh

2399
01:51:55,480 --> 01:52:03,199
2144 will uh balance the streetscape out

2400
01:52:00,239 --> 01:52:04,800
and but it would also uh provide uh or

2401
01:52:03,199 --> 01:52:08,400
help keep some of the light and some of

2402
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:10,719
the view uh that 2144 has. And I'm not

2403
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:13,040
sure if you've got uh uh some of that

2404
01:52:10,719 --> 01:52:15,199
imagery that was created uh to support

2405
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:17,040
that.

2406
01:52:15,199 --> 01:52:18,239
Thank you. I think some may have had it

2407
01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:19,679
circulated but not all. So we should

2408
01:52:18,239 --> 01:52:21,119
include that in the in the package. We

2409
01:52:19,679 --> 01:52:22,960
don't want people having mixed mixed

2410
01:52:21,119 --> 01:52:25,280
information. But I will take your

2411
01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:27,840
questions to staff this time. So if if

2412
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:30,800
the main house is the size that you say

2413
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:35,040
and it is larger then the calculation

2414
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:38,960
for uh the uh so I don't know the name

2415
01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:41,840
of it but it's the 6 is the allowable

2416
01:52:38,960 --> 01:52:45,920
percentage or the allowable point uh of

2417
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:48,440
the um lot coverage. So that means if

2418
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:51,520
the main house is larger then they've

2419
01:52:48,440 --> 01:52:53,440
miscalculated how much ratio there

2420
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:55,119
actually is how much uh total ratio

2421
01:52:53,440 --> 01:52:57,040
there actually. Okay. I'm happy to put

2422
01:52:55,119 --> 01:52:58,400
that question to staff as you anybody

2423
01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:00,000
else wishes to come forward. I'll I'll

2424
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:03,040
turn and turn that question over to to

2425
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:04,719
staff or the applicant. Um perhaps you

2426
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:07,840
can just we can just confirm the uh

2427
01:53:04,719 --> 01:53:09,440
those ratios that the ADU is smaller and

2428
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:10,480
therefore those ratios apply. I just

2429
01:53:09,440 --> 01:53:11,840
want to make sure we're we're not

2430
01:53:10,480 --> 01:53:13,440
missing something. I think if we have to

2431
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:17,119
get that clarified before we deal with

2432
01:53:13,440 --> 01:53:19,040
this, that's okay to do. Mr. Green.

2433
01:53:17,119 --> 01:53:21,599
Well, in terms of gross floor area, in

2434
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:24,760
terms of square footage, then the single

2435
01:53:21,599 --> 01:53:29,360
family dwelling is bigger than the

2436
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:31,599
ADU. If you take an F, but uh then the F

2437
01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:33,040
of the ADU will be bigger than the

2438
01:53:31,599 --> 01:53:35,360
single family dwelling, but that's

2439
01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:37,520
because there is a significant exemption

2440
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:39,920
in relation to basement for an existing

2441
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:41,440
single family dwelling.

2442
01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:44,719
So that's that's the answer is that the

2443
01:53:41,440 --> 01:53:46,320
the square footage includes the basement

2444
01:53:44,719 --> 01:53:48,880
um because it includes that as as part

2445
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:51,040
of its the comparison for size but not

2446
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:52,480
and the floor area ratio. Yeah. So from

2447
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:54,480
staff's perspective our interpretation

2448
01:53:52,480 --> 01:53:56,480
of the definition of excessive dwelling

2449
01:53:54,480 --> 01:53:58,000
unit when it says that the ADU must be

2450
01:53:56,480 --> 01:54:00,239
smaller than the principal building

2451
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:03,599
we're applying that in terms of gross

2452
01:54:00,239 --> 01:54:05,280
floor area the ADU must be smaller than

2453
01:54:03,599 --> 01:54:07,040
the single family dwelling. We're not

2454
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:09,040
we're comparing apples with apples

2455
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:12,080
rather than apples with orange. we

2456
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:14,080
started to compare areas of a single

2457
01:54:12,080 --> 01:54:16,480
family dwelling that are exempted from

2458
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:18,760
floor rate ratio i.e. basement or

2459
01:54:16,480 --> 01:54:20,960
covered landings and things like that.

2460
01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:23,360
Okay, thank you for that clarification.

2461
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:24,480
That's helpful. There was just also make

2462
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:25,560
sure I didn't miss anything else in

2463
01:54:24,480 --> 01:54:29,679
terms of those

2464
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:31,760
questions. Uh I think the height yes

2465
01:54:29,679 --> 01:54:33,360
height is measured from average grade

2466
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:37,040
rather than from the main floor

2467
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:39,280
elevation. So yes, today we did a uh we

2468
01:54:37,040 --> 01:54:41,440
triple checked the plans. So which led

2469
01:54:39,280 --> 01:54:44,000
to uh yeah some discussions with the

2470
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:46,159
applicants as well as internally and we

2471
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:47,920
confirmed that the as I mentioned at the

2472
01:54:46,159 --> 01:54:50,880
start of my presentation that the actual

2473
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:53,280
building height has decreased. However,

2474
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:55,040
the roof height is remains the same.

2475
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:56,840
That's in the the staff report and the

2476
01:54:55,040 --> 01:55:00,840
draft permit. Thank you for that

2477
01:54:56,840 --> 01:55:00,840
clarification. Welcome

2478
01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:06,800
John Armitage. Uh I live on Victoria

2479
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:10,280
Avenue. Um I know both of the

2480
01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:13,280
u parties to this current debate quite

2481
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:16,960
well. Um I sent in a submission this

2482
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:19,440
afternoon, so I'm I was after the um the

2483
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:21,840
deadline, so begging your indulgence. I

2484
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:26,119
would like to take 20 seconds to read

2485
01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:29,920
not all of my letter, but bits of it.

2486
01:55:26,119 --> 01:55:32,599
Um 1311 Victoria Avenue is located on a

2487
01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:34,599
charming portion of the

2488
01:55:32,599 --> 01:55:36,880
pedestrianoriented Brighton Avenue

2489
01:55:34,599 --> 01:55:39,199
streetscape and will be very close to

2490
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:41,480
the original carriage house next door.

2491
01:55:39,199 --> 01:55:44,239
Maybe it's a gate house. Carriage

2492
01:55:41,480 --> 01:55:47,520
house. This dwelling is as charming and

2493
01:55:44,239 --> 01:55:49,520
non-conforming as anywhere in Oak Bay.

2494
01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:53,280
It may not be as small as a certain

2495
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:55,320
house in Upland border, but it must be

2496
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:58,080
close.

2497
01:55:55,320 --> 01:56:00,080
Um, so it makes a compelling case for a

2498
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:03,599
flexible appro approach to planning

2499
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:04,440
constraints. What that means is just use

2500
01:56:03,599 --> 01:56:07,800
the

2501
01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:11,040
bylaw as guides, not

2502
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:13,880
rigid because the beauty of Jake's house

2503
01:56:11,040 --> 01:56:16,000
is how much it doesn't

2504
01:56:13,880 --> 01:56:17,760
conform. However, the important

2505
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:19,639
relationship between the two has not

2506
01:56:17,760 --> 01:56:22,320
been presented for

2507
01:56:19,639 --> 01:56:24,480
evaluation and is likely to be awkward

2508
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:26,960
and overbearing.

2509
01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:29,000
I might be proven wrong, but we we we

2510
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:31,920
can't tell from what's been

2511
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:34,480
submitted. The exterior sideyard setback

2512
01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:36,080
variance is contextually appropriate.

2513
01:56:34,480 --> 01:56:38,639
I.e.,

2514
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:40,560
uh it's not as bad as Jake's house.

2515
01:56:38,639 --> 01:56:41,920
That's fine. In fact, any house there

2516
01:56:40,560 --> 01:56:45,199
should build right up to the property

2517
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:47,040
line, not away from it. So, that's fine.

2518
01:56:45,199 --> 01:56:50,960
It can be supported as is. It could even

2519
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:53,440
be alleviated by 230 mm by reducing the

2520
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:55,360
north side set back to 1.5. In other

2521
01:56:53,440 --> 01:56:56,960
words, there's a little bit of space at

2522
01:56:55,360 --> 01:56:59,520
the northeast corner of the subject

2523
01:56:56,960 --> 01:57:00,840
property where if you really were

2524
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:04,000
worried about

2525
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:05,840
it. The two height variances, however,

2526
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:08,400
will likely create a problematic and

2527
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:10,679
unbalanced relationship to 2144 Brighton

2528
01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:13,760
Avenue. The proposed design is very

2529
01:57:10,679 --> 01:57:16,960
complex and is predicated on full height

2530
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:20,400
upper floor walls throughout.

2531
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:24,080
However, a Carl Lassenesque cottage

2532
01:57:20,400 --> 01:57:27,119
design such as this, and man, am I glad

2533
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:28,639
to see a design this is just delightful.

2534
01:57:27,119 --> 01:57:30,920
And if they follow through with a Carl

2535
01:57:28,639 --> 01:57:35,920
Lassen color scheme,

2536
01:57:30,920 --> 01:57:38,880
yay. Um, that can go in the record. Yay.

2537
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:40,880
um such as this is ideally suited to a

2538
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:42,719
more picturesque composition with

2539
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:44,560
variations in wall height that adjust to

2540
01:57:42,719 --> 01:57:47,760
circumstances and reduce its height and

2541
01:57:44,560 --> 01:57:50,199
massing adjacent to 2144 Brighton. In

2542
01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:52,719
other words, it could be sculpted a bit

2543
01:57:50,199 --> 01:57:55,679
more and simplified which I think would

2544
01:57:52,719 --> 01:57:58,520
help it. Terms of design DNA a hip roof

2545
01:57:55,679 --> 01:58:01,119
on a car len type cottage is

2546
01:57:58,520 --> 01:58:02,880
wrong. Attached or I attached some

2547
01:58:01,119 --> 01:58:04,480
sketches of what that might be. Uh I

2548
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:06,560
believe the proposed design is almost

2549
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:09,199
there but should be sent back for

2550
01:58:06,560 --> 01:58:11,040
reconsideration of height and massing

2551
01:58:09,199 --> 01:58:13,320
including a study of the relationship to

2552
01:58:11,040 --> 01:58:16,080
the neighboring carriage

2553
01:58:13,320 --> 01:58:18,639
house. And lastly, I bemoan the loss of

2554
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:21,360
the arbutus.

2555
01:58:18,639 --> 01:58:23,840
The 30,000 square uh 30,000 foot view of

2556
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:25,599
this project is we're going to see

2557
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:28,320
dozens and dozens like this in the

2558
01:58:25,599 --> 01:58:30,920
future where magnificent community

2559
01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:34,320
assets are muscled out of the

2560
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:37,080
way. In this case, the applicant is

2561
01:58:34,320 --> 01:58:39,920
limiting the damage as much as

2562
01:58:37,080 --> 01:58:41,360
possible. Um too bad it's nabas because

2563
01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:44,320
they they never get replaced. They're

2564
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:46,440
too hard to propagate.

2565
01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:50,560
[Music]

2566
01:58:46,440 --> 01:58:53,880
Um, and fortunat perhaps fortunately,

2567
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:56,639
the slope of the land might

2568
01:58:53,880 --> 01:59:00,159
mitigate some of the effects of the

2569
01:58:56,639 --> 01:59:03,320
proposed house towards Jake's house, but

2570
01:59:00,159 --> 01:59:05,760
I don't know. We don't we don't see that

2571
01:59:03,320 --> 01:59:08,000
study. That study would all it would

2572
01:59:05,760 --> 01:59:09,599
need to be is a composite elevation of

2573
01:59:08,000 --> 01:59:11,840
exist of the two existing houses with

2574
01:59:09,599 --> 01:59:13,639
the new one in between with the slope of

2575
01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:19,159
the land.

2576
01:59:13,639 --> 01:59:23,040
Um and last thing um I'd like to say is

2577
01:59:19,159 --> 01:59:25,440
the reference has been made to oh sorry

2578
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:27,840
such an elevation would reveal that

2579
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:31,119
regardless of floor areas the existing

2580
01:59:27,840 --> 01:59:33,440
house would clearly be the main house

2581
01:59:31,119 --> 01:59:35,560
because it's much longer. It would

2582
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:38,080
clearly look much larger than the other

2583
01:59:35,560 --> 01:59:39,520
one. On the subject of its proximity to

2584
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:43,360
the property line and I am going to wrap

2585
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:46,119
up very very quickly. This is more like

2586
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:48,880
two sideyard

2587
01:59:46,119 --> 01:59:51,000
setbacks. It's a bit of an anomaly that

2588
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:54,599
one of these setbacks is a rear yard

2589
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:57,599
setback and there are different

2590
01:59:54,599 --> 02:00:01,360
requirements applied for ADUs than

2591
01:59:57,599 --> 02:00:03,040
principal um principal dwellings. If it

2592
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:04,440
were a sideyard setback with a principal

2593
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:06,480
principal dwelling like we see

2594
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:08,320
everywhere, yes, there'd only be a five

2595
02:00:06,480 --> 02:00:11,599
foot setback and then there'd be another

2596
02:00:08,320 --> 02:00:14,480
five feet at the second story.

2597
02:00:11,599 --> 02:00:16,480
And that massing provision that's been

2598
02:00:14,480 --> 02:00:19,199
in our bylaws for a long time to survive

2599
02:00:16,480 --> 02:00:21,440
many variations is intended to control

2600
02:00:19,199 --> 02:00:26,159
the massing and protect adjacent

2601
02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:28,000
properties uh view and outlooks. So um

2602
02:00:26,159 --> 02:00:30,239
you can't strictly speaking apply that

2603
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:32,639
here but that's the principle that

2604
02:00:30,239 --> 02:00:36,119
applies here. So we have a situation

2605
02:00:32,639 --> 02:00:38,960
like that normally but this time we have

2606
02:00:36,119 --> 02:00:41,040
this. Thank you.

2607
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:42,719
Happy to take any questions if I wasn't

2608
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:44,960
here.

2609
02:00:42,719 --> 02:00:47,360
Thank you. Does anybody else wish to

2610
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:50,520
speak to us on this matter? Yeah, please

2611
02:00:47,360 --> 02:00:50,520
come forward.

2612
02:00:55,840 --> 02:01:00,000
Good evening. Uh my name is Doug Laura

2613
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:02,880
Spletch and I'm a resident of Oak Bay

2614
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:06,320
for 41 years. Welcome. And uh I'm here

2615
02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:09,360
to support both parties because the

2616
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:13,040
reality is that with the way the um the

2617
02:01:09,360 --> 02:01:16,639
law has changed this house can be built.

2618
02:01:13,040 --> 02:01:19,360
The problem is for Jake and the size and

2619
02:01:16,639 --> 02:01:23,119
I know Mitchell spoke about the massing

2620
02:01:19,360 --> 02:01:24,880
but the there has to be a a sort of

2621
02:01:23,119 --> 02:01:26,480
compromise here and I heard that word at

2622
02:01:24,880 --> 02:01:28,400
the beginning from another individual

2623
02:01:26,480 --> 02:01:30,880
and I think the compromise needs to be

2624
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:32,480
dealt with with the variances and I

2625
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:35,280
think there's some confusion on numbers

2626
02:01:32,480 --> 02:01:37,840
both in the planning department and uh

2627
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:41,119
the architect etc and I think it needs

2628
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:42,880
to go back and be revisited

2629
02:01:41,119 --> 02:01:45,280
uh but I believe a compromise guys can

2630
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:49,679
solve the situation and we can live

2631
02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:51,159
happily ever after. Thank you.

2632
02:01:49,679 --> 02:01:55,440
Thank

2633
02:01:51,159 --> 02:01:57,119
you, Mr. B. Thank you, mayor. Um I'd

2634
02:01:55,440 --> 02:01:59,280
like to close the loop on a question

2635
02:01:57,119 --> 02:02:00,800
from the very start. Uh one of the

2636
02:01:59,280 --> 02:02:03,440
councils asked about the proposed

2637
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:07,360
regulation in February. I just want to

2638
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:09,360
clarify that um under the existing um

2639
02:02:07,360 --> 02:02:11,599
regulations for ADUs for accessory

2640
02:02:09,360 --> 02:02:14,080
dwelling units, two stories is in bylaw.

2641
02:02:11,599 --> 02:02:15,360
It's part of our program. Uh secondly,

2642
02:02:14,080 --> 02:02:16,400
there were some changes in the works.

2643
02:02:15,360 --> 02:02:18,719
There are changes in the works that

2644
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:20,639
haven't been implemented yet. And those

2645
02:02:18,719 --> 02:02:24,400
height limits for the roof height and

2646
02:02:20,639 --> 02:02:27,560
and the building height um would would

2647
02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:30,560
exceed or would be about what is uh that

2648
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:32,000
is what what is proposed. So when the uh

2649
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:34,000
designer was commenting on they were

2650
02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:35,520
anticipating these changes, uh I just

2651
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:37,199
wanted to clarify in response to the

2652
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:40,400
question that is indeed that those would

2653
02:02:37,199 --> 02:02:42,239
be higher height limits. So um that's my

2654
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:44,880
response to that question. Thank you.

2655
02:02:42,239 --> 02:02:46,400
Thank you Mr. B. That helps.

2656
02:02:44,880 --> 02:02:48,159
Uh you can well let me just go for

2657
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:51,119
continue the the any other members of

2658
02:02:48,159 --> 02:02:51,119
the public who wish to address

2659
02:02:51,159 --> 02:02:54,960
council. Seeing people scrimming in our

2660
02:02:53,360 --> 02:02:56,560
uncomfortable seats and no hands raised.

2661
02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:58,480
I think I'm ready to bring it back to

2662
02:02:56,560 --> 02:02:59,760
the table here. Nope. We have one person

2663
02:02:58,480 --> 02:03:02,360
who wishes to come forward and address

2664
02:02:59,760 --> 02:03:06,159
council. Please come

2665
02:03:02,360 --> 02:03:07,920
forward. Speaking to the variances.

2666
02:03:06,159 --> 02:03:09,920
I'm going to speak to the general idea

2667
02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:13,040
of the variances and these laneway

2668
02:03:09,920 --> 02:03:14,320
so-called houses. And I'm just learning

2669
02:03:13,040 --> 02:03:15,520
a lot tonight. And I've been learning

2670
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:17,520
because I've been walking around and

2671
02:03:15,520 --> 02:03:19,440
seeing some of these what were supposed

2672
02:03:17,520 --> 02:03:21,639
to be laneweed cottages turning into

2673
02:03:19,440 --> 02:03:23,840
these really giant houses in people's

2674
02:03:21,639 --> 02:03:25,920
backyards. And I'm concerned that if you

2675
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:29,599
start approving all of these variances

2676
02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:32,719
of height and setback that it's going to

2677
02:03:29,599 --> 02:03:35,199
create a precedent and I think these

2678
02:03:32,719 --> 02:03:38,320
requirement or this the ability to have

2679
02:03:35,199 --> 02:03:40,480
these big backyard houses now is really

2680
02:03:38,320 --> 02:03:43,599
concerning. But I think we need to do

2681
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:45,599
not create precedences that allow so

2682
02:03:43,599 --> 02:03:47,599
many variances that things like light

2683
02:03:45,599 --> 02:03:49,760
don't get into people's backyard and

2684
02:03:47,599 --> 02:03:51,520
that we're ruining the people that are

2685
02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:54,560
living around that. So if you can figure

2686
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:56,159
out a way to, you know, we have to do

2687
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:58,080
what we have to do, but at the same

2688
02:03:56,159 --> 02:04:00,800
time, I'm getting increasingly concerned

2689
02:03:58,080 --> 02:04:02,400
when I see some of these monster laneway

2690
02:04:00,800 --> 02:04:06,560
cottages that we were kind of excited

2691
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:08,639
about um in people's backyards. So I I

2692
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:11,360
mean I don't know enough about I would I

2693
02:04:08,639 --> 02:04:13,040
would say please don't accept do do what

2694
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:16,080
people are suggesting is to try to make

2695
02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:18,800
it work but but not in a way that is so

2696
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:21,520
disruptive on the people and their light

2697
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:26,360
and their ability to live their life out

2698
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:26,360
comfortably in their house. Thank you.

2699
02:04:26,480 --> 02:04:29,360
Anybody else wish to

2700
02:04:30,119 --> 02:04:34,599
speak? Please come forward.

2701
02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:42,480
Hello. My name

2702
02:04:40,440 --> 02:04:45,119
is There you go. There we go. Hi.

2703
02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:49,080
Welcome Webb. Uh, and I'm a homeowner in

2704
02:04:45,119 --> 02:04:51,520
Oak Bay. I'm actually the neighbor um to

2705
02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:55,199
the other side of both Jake and

2706
02:04:51,520 --> 02:04:57,520
Mitchell. Um, and I oppose this variance

2707
02:04:55,199 --> 02:05:00,880
on the basis of the that the mass of the

2708
02:04:57,520 --> 02:05:03,199
ADU is too large. Um it seems a little

2709
02:05:00,880 --> 02:05:07,040
unnecessary to have two stories for a

2710
02:05:03,199 --> 02:05:09,119
secondary um unit that's going to and I

2711
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:11,440
support intergenerational

2712
02:05:09,119 --> 02:05:14,000
um housing and having that option, but

2713
02:05:11,440 --> 02:05:15,599
the secondary unit would be for my

2714
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:17,760
understanding would be for Mitchell and

2715
02:05:15,599 --> 02:05:20,159
his wife and the primary unit would be

2716
02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:24,719
for his children. Um, and it just seems

2717
02:05:20,159 --> 02:05:27,280
excessive and uh too much change and too

2718
02:05:24,719 --> 02:05:29,599
much impediment on Jake's view of her

2719
02:05:27,280 --> 02:05:32,880
living room and her main living area, a

2720
02:05:29,599 --> 02:05:36,480
loss of light and a loss of um air space

2721
02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:37,480
that she enjoys. So, thank you for

2722
02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:40,159
speaking, Miss

2723
02:05:37,480 --> 02:05:41,119
Web. Uh, sorry, I don't want to give the

2724
02:05:40,159 --> 02:05:42,159
impression that we don't want to hear

2725
02:05:41,119 --> 02:05:43,679
from you. So, if there's anybody else

2726
02:05:42,159 --> 02:05:45,000
who wishes to come forward, please do so

2727
02:05:43,679 --> 02:05:47,520
at this

2728
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:49,360
time. I don't see anybody else. So, I'm

2729
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:51,679
going to bring us back to the council

2730
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:53,679
table. Uh, councelor Bracefit, you had a

2731
02:05:51,679 --> 02:05:56,000
question. Um, yeah, just um through you

2732
02:05:53,679 --> 02:05:57,760
to staff um in regards to accessory

2733
02:05:56,000 --> 02:06:00,320
dwelling units being allowed to be two

2734
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:02,400
stories. Um, and a question I think from

2735
02:06:00,320 --> 02:06:05,520
Mr. Armitage or a point from Mr.

2736
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:06,960
Armitage. Um, why is there we don't have

2737
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:10,000
any concession in there to have a five

2738
02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:12,239
foot setback like we do on a on a single

2739
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:13,159
family dwelling? Is that correct? on the

2740
02:06:12,239 --> 02:06:16,480
second

2741
02:06:13,159 --> 02:06:19,040
story or it's 5 foot. Yeah, it's 5 foot.

2742
02:06:16,480 --> 02:06:21,040
Um, sure to give it to Mr. Green, but at

2743
02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:22,960
this point that isn't uh in place yet.

2744
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:24,159
And the rear yard. Yeah, through your

2745
02:06:22,960 --> 02:06:26,000
worship. Yeah, there is no second

2746
02:06:24,159 --> 02:06:28,239
service setback like there is with a

2747
02:06:26,000 --> 02:06:30,800
principal building on a on a on a

2748
02:06:28,239 --> 02:06:33,440
accessory dwelling unit. If that answers

2749
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:35,000
your question.

2750
02:06:33,440 --> 02:06:38,079
Thank

2751
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:39,520
you. Any other questions? If not, oh,

2752
02:06:38,079 --> 02:06:41,840
councelor Green Watson and then

2753
02:06:39,520 --> 02:06:44,480
Appleton.

2754
02:06:41,840 --> 02:06:46,560
Thank you. And through you to Mr. Green,

2755
02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:50,159
just for the information of the public,

2756
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:52,239
can you um can you explain? Oh, you

2757
02:06:50,159 --> 02:06:54,320
know, I just had it and then it it went

2758
02:06:52,239 --> 02:06:56,400
um I'm sorry. I I I'll think about it

2759
02:06:54,320 --> 02:06:58,719
and come back. Thank you. Here's Council

2760
02:06:56,400 --> 02:07:01,760
Watson.

2761
02:06:58,719 --> 02:07:04,800
Yes. Thank you. This may actually be a

2762
02:07:01,760 --> 02:07:06,960
question for you, Mayor Murdoch. Um, as

2763
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:09,040
we all know, certainly the seven of us

2764
02:07:06,960 --> 02:07:11,280
and maybe others in the in the in the

2765
02:07:09,040 --> 02:07:13,520
chambers right now, we've been recently

2766
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:15,520
criticized quite openly by the housing

2767
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:17,760
advisor about how we consider

2768
02:07:15,520 --> 02:07:21,040
applications like this. So, I just like

2769
02:07:17,760 --> 02:07:23,199
you to clarify what it is we are allowed

2770
02:07:21,040 --> 02:07:25,679
to focus our attention to when this

2771
02:07:23,199 --> 02:07:27,520
comes before us. the public have been

2772
02:07:25,679 --> 02:07:30,480
talking about things beyond the scope of

2773
02:07:27,520 --> 02:07:32,560
the variances uh which are context to

2774
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:35,440
the whole situation and I'm struggling

2775
02:07:32,560 --> 02:07:37,599
with how I separate the context from the

2776
02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:39,920
very specific request. So I I'm really

2777
02:07:37,599 --> 02:07:42,079
looking for some guidance since James

2778
02:07:39,920 --> 02:07:44,159
Ridge has been quite harsh in his

2779
02:07:42,079 --> 02:07:46,639
judgment of us as a decision-making

2780
02:07:44,159 --> 02:07:48,159
body. Thank you.

2781
02:07:46,639 --> 02:07:51,520
Sure. Thank you, Council Watson. I can

2782
02:07:48,159 --> 02:07:53,520
only share my opinion. Um I did read his

2783
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:54,800
comments in that report. Uh I was

2784
02:07:53,520 --> 02:07:58,320
actually queried about it when I was

2785
02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:59,679
doing a media piece with on CFAX. Um

2786
02:07:58,320 --> 02:08:02,239
I'll try and remember what exactly what

2787
02:07:59,679 --> 02:08:04,560
I said there. I can't exactly but my my

2788
02:08:02,239 --> 02:08:05,760
take of it is that I think we have and

2789
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:08,560
I've asked people to speak to the

2790
02:08:05,760 --> 02:08:10,639
variance as much as possible. But my

2791
02:08:08,560 --> 02:08:12,119
read of the legislation is that we are

2792
02:08:10,639 --> 02:08:15,440
required to have public input on

2793
02:08:12,119 --> 02:08:17,360
variances. Um, and obviously the context

2794
02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:20,159
of the ask is important because we're

2795
02:08:17,360 --> 02:08:22,079
often adjudicating the reasonleness of

2796
02:08:20,159 --> 02:08:24,400
the of the ask for variance from the

2797
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:26,560
standard bylaws. So I think it's helpful

2798
02:08:24,400 --> 02:08:28,719
for us to understand the why things were

2799
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:32,400
done and I think also the potential

2800
02:08:28,719 --> 02:08:36,159
impact of the uh ask for variances on

2801
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:38,560
the community. Um I think we uh I think

2802
02:08:36,159 --> 02:08:40,480
the the question about you know getting

2803
02:08:38,560 --> 02:08:43,520
spinning into sort of broader policy

2804
02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:46,320
questions is gets outside of that realm

2805
02:08:43,520 --> 02:08:50,079
but I think uh I would also say that in

2806
02:08:46,320 --> 02:08:52,560
my opinion um we are changing our zoning

2807
02:08:50,079 --> 02:08:55,199
and bylaws. We've iterated them a couple

2808
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:58,560
of times. We're still in that process

2809
02:08:55,199 --> 02:09:00,079
and I would generally feel like these uh

2810
02:08:58,560 --> 02:09:01,520
these are informative as we have these

2811
02:09:00,079 --> 02:09:04,320
applications coming forward under the

2812
02:09:01,520 --> 02:09:05,760
new rules. I personally don't mind

2813
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:07,040
leaving a bit of latitude because I

2814
02:09:05,760 --> 02:09:08,400
think we're we're also trying to

2815
02:09:07,040 --> 02:09:12,079
understand what the impacts of the

2816
02:09:08,400 --> 02:09:14,320
policies are, right? We we have guidance

2817
02:09:12,079 --> 02:09:16,560
and input um in the principles and we

2818
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:17,679
look at some studies, but until you see

2819
02:09:16,560 --> 02:09:18,800
some of these coming through, it's hard

2820
02:09:17,679 --> 02:09:20,400
to know whether they're meeting the

2821
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:21,760
expectations of ourselves in the

2822
02:09:20,400 --> 02:09:24,079
community. So, that's where I'll leave

2823
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:26,960
it. I I I think there's at the end of

2824
02:09:24,079 --> 02:09:28,560
the day, we are we have to consider and

2825
02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:30,400
speak to the variance, not to the

2826
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:31,760
broader social issues or other things.

2827
02:09:30,400 --> 02:09:33,360
Uh so I think that's very important from

2828
02:09:31,760 --> 02:09:35,199
our perspective but I tend to think that

2829
02:09:33,360 --> 02:09:36,719
it's helpful for us to understand where

2830
02:09:35,199 --> 02:09:38,560
people are how other people are viewing

2831
02:09:36,719 --> 02:09:40,320
these things and and asking the the

2832
02:09:38,560 --> 02:09:44,480
questions of why is not an unreasonable

2833
02:09:40,320 --> 02:09:44,480
question. Does that help?

2834
02:09:44,840 --> 02:09:48,880
Okay. I had councelor Green you remember

2835
02:09:47,440 --> 02:09:50,400
what you were going to say? Okay.

2836
02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:53,280
Welcome. Welcome. Thank you for Thank

2837
02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:55,840
you for um coming back to me and through

2838
02:09:53,280 --> 02:09:58,320
you to Mr. Green. Mr. green for the

2839
02:09:55,840 --> 02:10:00,880
benefit of the general public in plain

2840
02:09:58,320 --> 02:10:05,040
language. Could you explain what governs

2841
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:07,360
the size of an ADU on a lot? Um, I think

2842
02:10:05,040 --> 02:10:09,840
that's I think that's information that

2843
02:10:07,360 --> 02:10:11,679
people need to understand. What are the

2844
02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:17,040
the the guidelines and what are the

2845
02:10:11,679 --> 02:10:19,679
restrictions? Thank you, Mr. Green.

2846
02:10:17,040 --> 02:10:23,520
Um well the definition of a accessory

2847
02:10:19,679 --> 02:10:25,679
dwelling unit um basically says that um

2848
02:10:23,520 --> 02:10:27,679
it must be located in a building smaller

2849
02:10:25,679 --> 02:10:30,480
than a principal building located on the

2850
02:10:27,679 --> 02:10:32,760
same lot. Obviously there are also other

2851
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:35,840
height regulations or setback

2852
02:10:32,760 --> 02:10:37,760
regulations. Um there is also total lot

2853
02:10:35,840 --> 02:10:39,440
coverage as well as flow area ratio

2854
02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:42,599
regulations that apply to the placement

2855
02:10:39,440 --> 02:10:44,639
of au on on a

2856
02:10:42,599 --> 02:10:46,400
property. Does that answer your

2857
02:10:44,639 --> 02:10:48,239
question?

2858
02:10:46,400 --> 02:10:50,159
Yeah, I just I think I'm responding to

2859
02:10:48,239 --> 02:10:51,440
the comments that it's too big and I

2860
02:10:50,159 --> 02:10:53,440
just wanted to make sure the public

2861
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:56,639
understood how the how the size and

2862
02:10:53,440 --> 02:10:59,440
massing are estimated or calculated.

2863
02:10:56,639 --> 02:11:01,079
Thank you. Yes. So there's no maximum

2864
02:10:59,440 --> 02:11:03,599
size

2865
02:11:01,079 --> 02:11:06,400
um essential yeah an access to a

2866
02:11:03,599 --> 02:11:08,400
dwelling unit under the definition u

2867
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:11,280
that in relation to when that new

2868
02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:13,280
definition was uh placed in the bylaw by

2869
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:15,040
council last June then that is the

2870
02:11:13,280 --> 02:11:17,280
definition that it must still must be

2871
02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:21,679
small there is no maximum size of an ADU

2872
02:11:17,280 --> 02:11:23,440
in relation to square footage uh or um

2873
02:11:21,679 --> 02:11:24,719
yeah things like that it's just needs to

2874
02:11:23,440 --> 02:11:27,199
be smaller than the principal building

2875
02:11:24,719 --> 02:11:30,199
that is located on the same lot. Thank

2876
02:11:27,199 --> 02:11:30,199
you.

2877
02:11:30,320 --> 02:11:33,520
Thank you, worship. So, through you two

2878
02:11:32,159 --> 02:11:35,599
staff, I'm going to be pedantic because

2879
02:11:33,520 --> 02:11:38,560
Mr. Mr. Bull just said this, but for the

2880
02:11:35,599 --> 02:11:42,560
purpose of of of uh for the public's

2881
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:44,719
edification, uh this uh these variances

2882
02:11:42,560 --> 02:11:46,159
are based on essentially for once for

2883
02:11:44,719 --> 02:11:48,159
all intents and purposes the first

2884
02:11:46,159 --> 02:11:51,199
iteration of our small scale multi-unit

2885
02:11:48,159 --> 02:11:53,520
infill housing that has recently been uh

2886
02:11:51,199 --> 02:11:56,320
reviewed and amended by council. So just

2887
02:11:53,520 --> 02:11:58,639
for the public's clarity, uh the

2888
02:11:56,320 --> 02:12:00,079
variance that is specified here is

2889
02:11:58,639 --> 02:12:02,960
because of the current standard of

2890
02:12:00,079 --> 02:12:05,280
bylaw, but in the revised bylaw, this

2891
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:07,920
height would not constitute a variance.

2892
02:12:05,280 --> 02:12:11,320
Is that correct,

2893
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:11,320
Mr. B?

2894
02:12:12,960 --> 02:12:16,079
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yes, that's

2895
02:12:14,400 --> 02:12:18,239
correct. In the proposed regulations.

2896
02:12:16,079 --> 02:12:19,320
Thank you.

2897
02:12:18,239 --> 02:12:20,840
Thank

2898
02:12:19,320 --> 02:12:23,920
you.

2899
02:12:20,840 --> 02:12:25,360
Um I'm just going to ask one I'm going

2900
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:27,280
to ask the applicant to come forward and

2901
02:12:25,360 --> 02:12:29,679
I have one question and that's just a

2902
02:12:27,280 --> 02:12:31,199
little bit about recognizing this. If I

2903
02:12:29,679 --> 02:12:32,639
can get the applicant to come forward

2904
02:12:31,199 --> 02:12:34,480
I'm I'm going to just I have one

2905
02:12:32,639 --> 02:12:38,239
question and that's just the one

2906
02:12:34,480 --> 02:12:40,079
remaining is that is the um um the shape

2907
02:12:38,239 --> 02:12:43,000
of the building that we had questions

2908
02:12:40,079 --> 02:12:45,599
about setbacks and heights and things.

2909
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:47,679
Um it's hard not to notice the lot is a

2910
02:12:45,599 --> 02:12:49,840
bit of a uh it's a diminishing size

2911
02:12:47,679 --> 02:12:53,119
towards the back and perhaps could you

2912
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:55,840
speak to um what drove sort of the shape

2913
02:12:53,119 --> 02:12:57,440
of the house was is it is it the width

2914
02:12:55,840 --> 02:12:59,520
is it these other aspects I'm just

2915
02:12:57,440 --> 02:13:01,119
because there is that the house is you

2916
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:02,239
know it is it is a height that's being

2917
02:13:01,119 --> 02:13:04,800
asked for and I think it might be

2918
02:13:02,239 --> 02:13:06,840
helpful to understand the the the why

2919
02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:10,719
it's the shape it is

2920
02:13:06,840 --> 02:13:14,639
um in the context of that lot

2921
02:13:10,719 --> 02:13:16,280
I I guess the shape it is is because um

2922
02:13:14,639 --> 02:13:20,280
we want it to

2923
02:13:16,280 --> 02:13:22,880
be parallel to the rear property line

2924
02:13:20,280 --> 02:13:24,480
and I guess parallel to the because it's

2925
02:13:22,880 --> 02:13:26,880
the north property line that has a

2926
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:28,960
slight angle to it and so we had we have

2927
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:31,360
a bit more space on on the north side

2928
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:33,440
with just a little bit is f as you go

2929
02:13:31,360 --> 02:13:35,360
further left you can see that the

2930
02:13:33,440 --> 02:13:36,880
setback gets a little bit greater so

2931
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:39,119
we're just keeping it parallel to the

2932
02:13:36,880 --> 02:13:42,119
street and parallel to the rear property

2933
02:13:39,119 --> 02:13:42,119
time.

2934
02:13:42,320 --> 02:13:46,560
Thank you for that. Um, I don't see any

2935
02:13:45,040 --> 02:13:47,679
other questions, so I'm going to turn to

2936
02:13:46,560 --> 02:13:49,199
members of council. We can certainly get

2937
02:13:47,679 --> 02:13:50,960
a motion to receive the report at this

2938
02:13:49,199 --> 02:13:52,560
point to start with. Moved and seconded.

2939
02:13:50,960 --> 02:13:55,760
There's a debate receipt. All those in

2940
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:57,079
favor? Any opposed? None opposed? Um,

2941
02:13:55,760 --> 02:14:00,000
seeking a

2942
02:13:57,079 --> 02:14:02,960
motion. Councelor Smart. I'll move the

2943
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:04,639
staff staff recommendation.

2944
02:14:02,960 --> 02:14:08,239
Second it. Just for clarification, staff

2945
02:14:04,639 --> 02:14:09,599
recommendation uh here is that the DVP

2946
02:14:08,239 --> 02:14:11,920
uh be development variance permit,

2947
02:14:09,599 --> 02:14:13,040
sorry, be approved so we're clear about

2948
02:14:11,920 --> 02:14:15,760
what we're speaking to. Go ahead,

2949
02:14:13,040 --> 02:14:17,520
councelor Smart. Yeah, thank you. Um

2950
02:14:15,760 --> 02:14:19,760
speaking just directly to the variances

2951
02:14:17,520 --> 02:14:22,560
that are in front of us uh today um with

2952
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:26,239
regards to the height um I've already

2953
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:28,639
spoken in in favor of the current um um

2954
02:14:26,239 --> 02:14:31,119
height um increases that we looked at

2955
02:14:28,639 --> 02:14:35,520
around this um council table a few

2956
02:14:31,119 --> 02:14:37,599
months ago. Um, so allowing accessory

2957
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:39,040
dwelling units to have modest heights

2958
02:14:37,599 --> 02:14:41,599
such as this with I really appreciate

2959
02:14:39,040 --> 02:14:43,360
the 8ft ceilings. Um, as well as an

2960
02:14:41,599 --> 02:14:45,360
attention to detail with creating a a

2961
02:14:43,360 --> 02:14:48,320
pleasant massing at the top of the roof

2962
02:14:45,360 --> 02:14:50,159
form while keeping the height low. Um,

2963
02:14:48,320 --> 02:14:52,639
and then with regards to the setbacks,

2964
02:14:50,159 --> 02:14:53,840
they seem quite reasonable um to me

2965
02:14:52,639 --> 02:14:56,800
because they demonstrate a typical

2966
02:14:53,840 --> 02:14:59,360
sideyard setback situation while also

2967
02:14:56,800 --> 02:15:01,440
prioritizing saving the trees. So just

2968
02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:04,000
speaking directly to the two variances

2969
02:15:01,440 --> 02:15:06,880
at the table, I do find the variances

2970
02:15:04,000 --> 02:15:08,719
reasonable.

2971
02:15:06,880 --> 02:15:11,280
You does anybody else wish to speak to

2972
02:15:08,719 --> 02:15:13,119
the Go ahead, councelor Appleton. Thank

2973
02:15:11,280 --> 02:15:16,800
you, worship. So yeah, speaking in favor

2974
02:15:13,119 --> 02:15:19,599
of the the variances, uh most primarily

2975
02:15:16,800 --> 02:15:22,239
because as I just confirmed with staff,

2976
02:15:19,599 --> 02:15:25,520
the proposed revisions to small-cale

2977
02:15:22,239 --> 02:15:28,000
multi-unit uh specifications that

2978
02:15:25,520 --> 02:15:30,560
council has recently debated would

2979
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:32,639
accommodate this height. So I think that

2980
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:34,719
we've had a recent conversation where

2981
02:15:32,639 --> 02:15:37,360
we've reviewed what we believe to be

2982
02:15:34,719 --> 02:15:39,360
acceptable heights and have revised the

2983
02:15:37,360 --> 02:15:41,599
current standard in order to accommodate

2984
02:15:39,360 --> 02:15:44,079
that. And I think that how that

2985
02:15:41,599 --> 02:15:46,560
manifests itself in this particular

2986
02:15:44,079 --> 02:15:49,280
building is a is a two-story building

2987
02:15:46,560 --> 02:15:52,560
that is uh I guess I would say complete

2988
02:15:49,280 --> 02:15:56,719
in its floor plan. Uh you know a a home

2989
02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:59,280
that really can be used uh again either

2990
02:15:56,719 --> 02:16:01,679
for downsizing and a multigenerational

2991
02:15:59,280 --> 02:16:03,840
use or for other uses as well. It's sort

2992
02:16:01,679 --> 02:16:06,159
of a a complete structure with a couple

2993
02:16:03,840 --> 02:16:08,880
of bedrooms and some additional space.

2994
02:16:06,159 --> 02:16:11,599
So it it it appeals to a number of

2995
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:14,400
different occupants and has that has

2996
02:16:11,599 --> 02:16:17,599
that additional space. So and it's

2997
02:16:14,400 --> 02:16:20,880
extremely important to be looking at the

2998
02:16:17,599 --> 02:16:23,360
variances uh in well I guess interior

2999
02:16:20,880 --> 02:16:25,679
setback in order to protect the trees

3000
02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:27,199
and and the loss of the arbutus is is

3001
02:16:25,679 --> 02:16:29,520
very regrettable and I very much

3002
02:16:27,199 --> 02:16:32,479
sympathize with that. Um doing what we

3003
02:16:29,520 --> 02:16:34,559
can to conserve the remaining trees is

3004
02:16:32,479 --> 02:16:37,200
also really really critical. So there's

3005
02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:39,920
no doubt that small-cale multi-unit

3006
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:42,880
housing on the lots the in Oak Bay that

3007
02:16:39,920 --> 02:16:44,719
that vary a lot in size and dimensions

3008
02:16:42,880 --> 02:16:46,800
and just the nature of how they're laid

3009
02:16:44,719 --> 02:16:49,840
out is always going to be challenging

3010
02:16:46,800 --> 02:16:52,080
and this is uh there are some things

3011
02:16:49,840 --> 02:16:54,719
which stand uh outside of the ideal

3012
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:56,639
here. I think on based on on all balance

3013
02:16:54,719 --> 02:16:59,920
of factors and on merits I'm I'm

3014
02:16:56,639 --> 02:17:01,679
interested in supporting. Thank you.

3015
02:16:59,920 --> 02:17:04,000
Thank you councelor Appleton. Councelor

3016
02:17:01,679 --> 02:17:05,599
Briew. Um, thanks very much, Mayor. Um,

3017
02:17:04,000 --> 02:17:08,319
and thanks for the comments that we've

3018
02:17:05,599 --> 02:17:09,679
heard so far around the table. Um, I'm

3019
02:17:08,319 --> 02:17:12,399
really struggling with this one because

3020
02:17:09,679 --> 02:17:15,040
I I I do realize that, um, when the

3021
02:17:12,399 --> 02:17:18,479
revised bylaw comes back that the height

3022
02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:20,479
will fit in with this. Um, I I I think

3023
02:17:18,479 --> 02:17:22,160
the design of this house is beautiful. I

3024
02:17:20,479 --> 02:17:23,760
think that, um, Mr. Collins, you've done

3025
02:17:22,160 --> 02:17:27,359
a wonderful job of the design of this

3026
02:17:23,760 --> 02:17:30,080
house. Um, I I think to to to my

3027
02:17:27,359 --> 02:17:32,000
property and and my house is 820 ft. I'm

3028
02:17:30,080 --> 02:17:35,120
in trouble when I want to make a when I

3029
02:17:32,000 --> 02:17:36,399
want to build a secondary or an an ADU

3030
02:17:35,120 --> 02:17:38,240
because I'm going to have to build it at

3031
02:17:36,399 --> 02:17:42,319
like 800 square feet which is going to

3032
02:17:38,240 --> 02:17:43,840
be really teeny. But anyhow, um I um so

3033
02:17:42,319 --> 02:17:45,760
I think that the design of this house is

3034
02:17:43,840 --> 02:17:50,439
beautiful. Um I understand that the

3035
02:17:45,760 --> 02:17:52,960
height um would will in the future um be

3036
02:17:50,439 --> 02:17:55,439
acceptable. What I struggle with is the

3037
02:17:52,960 --> 02:17:57,359
positioning of of this h of this

3038
02:17:55,439 --> 02:17:59,840
accessory dwelling unit so close to the

3039
02:17:57,359 --> 02:18:01,679
house at 2144 Brighton. Um, and that's

3040
02:17:59,840 --> 02:18:05,280
where I really struggle. I I I

3041
02:18:01,679 --> 02:18:06,880
understand that this this house um will

3042
02:18:05,280 --> 02:18:08,639
probably get built and it's great that

3043
02:18:06,880 --> 02:18:10,800
we're going to have um a house that's

3044
02:18:08,639 --> 02:18:12,960
there for intergenerational use,

3045
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:15,120
intergenerational living. Um, I wish

3046
02:18:12,960 --> 02:18:17,519
that the house could move just a little

3047
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:20,479
bit closer to the to the main house. And

3048
02:18:17,519 --> 02:18:22,880
I understand that that might that might

3049
02:18:20,479 --> 02:18:26,399
take another tree out, but I think for

3050
02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:27,840
the sake of of of the context of how

3051
02:18:26,399 --> 02:18:31,760
this house is going to look on the

3052
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:33,840
street and how um how it affects the

3053
02:18:31,760 --> 02:18:36,880
neighbor the surrounding neighbors, it

3054
02:18:33,840 --> 02:18:40,160
would it would almost be worth moving

3055
02:18:36,880 --> 02:18:42,399
it, you know, a 10 ft closer in so that

3056
02:18:40,160 --> 02:18:45,280
that it gives a little bit more space

3057
02:18:42,399 --> 02:18:46,599
between 2144 and this accessory

3058
02:18:45,280 --> 02:18:49,120
dwelling.

3059
02:18:46,599 --> 02:18:51,679
So, I I am really struggling with this,

3060
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:55,200
but I I my I'm leaning towards um voting

3061
02:18:51,679 --> 02:18:58,000
against um this um this proposal because

3062
02:18:55,200 --> 02:19:00,399
I I do think that it could come back in

3063
02:18:58,000 --> 02:19:02,160
a in a better position on the lot, but I

3064
02:19:00,399 --> 02:19:05,120
do love the look of the house. Thank

3065
02:19:02,160 --> 02:19:06,479
you.

3066
02:19:05,120 --> 02:19:08,960
Thank you, Councelor Braithweight.

3067
02:19:06,479 --> 02:19:10,960
Council,

3068
02:19:08,960 --> 02:19:13,840
thank you and thanks to everybody who

3069
02:19:10,960 --> 02:19:16,880
spoke. Um there are two compelling

3070
02:19:13,840 --> 02:19:18,559
stories here um from each of the the

3071
02:19:16,880 --> 02:19:20,240
parties. Um one is about

3072
02:19:18,559 --> 02:19:22,200
intergenerational living and the need

3073
02:19:20,240 --> 02:19:26,399
for that and I'm very sensitive to that

3074
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:29,200
myself. The other is the concern about

3075
02:19:26,399 --> 02:19:30,880
the interference with the existing home

3076
02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:33,920
and the owner who has lived there for

3077
02:19:30,880 --> 02:19:36,080
many many decades. Um this is a really

3078
02:19:33,920 --> 02:19:39,599
difficult one but the reality is that in

3079
02:19:36,080 --> 02:19:41,439
June if if all goes well this would not

3080
02:19:39,599 --> 02:19:43,399
have come to council at all because

3081
02:19:41,439 --> 02:19:49,439
there would not be any variances

3082
02:19:43,399 --> 02:19:52,160
required. Um this would have no no sorry

3083
02:19:49,439 --> 02:19:55,120
um but anyway what I'd like to say is

3084
02:19:52,160 --> 02:19:58,080
that they are two compelling stories. I

3085
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:59,200
am also struggling with it. Um and I I

3086
02:19:58,080 --> 02:20:01,200
would like to hear the rest of my

3087
02:19:59,200 --> 02:20:04,720
colleagues before I make a final vote.

3088
02:20:01,200 --> 02:20:08,040
Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Green,

3089
02:20:04,720 --> 02:20:10,880
Councelor Watson, and then Patterson.

3090
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:12,720
Um, perhaps maybe what I'm going to say

3091
02:20:10,880 --> 02:20:15,000
are really just more observations about

3092
02:20:12,720 --> 02:20:18,479
the situation we are in at the moment.

3093
02:20:15,000 --> 02:20:21,439
Um uh with respect to the variances

3094
02:20:18,479 --> 02:20:25,680
themselves, I would say that um they

3095
02:20:21,439 --> 02:20:28,399
aren't they aren't huge, but um I have

3096
02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:30,720
argued previously with respect to a

3097
02:20:28,399 --> 02:20:33,439
request that we're really just setting

3098
02:20:30,720 --> 02:20:36,240
up our framework and trying to evaluate

3099
02:20:33,439 --> 02:20:39,280
it as we go along. And what we're

3100
02:20:36,240 --> 02:20:42,640
hearing is that some of the implications

3101
02:20:39,280 --> 02:20:44,399
of those decisions we've made um what

3102
02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:47,840
they're already having. I I would say

3103
02:20:44,399 --> 02:20:50,319
it's probably not fair to refer to the

3104
02:20:47,840 --> 02:20:52,000
bylaw we might adopt the one that we've

3105
02:20:50,319 --> 02:20:54,319
sent away for review because that

3106
02:20:52,000 --> 02:20:56,800
actually isn't the law right now in Oak

3107
02:20:54,319 --> 02:20:59,040
Bay. And whether it will or not be the

3108
02:20:56,800 --> 02:21:01,840
law, we'll only know when it comes back

3109
02:20:59,040 --> 02:21:03,920
for discussion and decision. But what

3110
02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:07,680
I've heard from um the public

3111
02:21:03,920 --> 02:21:10,479
participating in this is that um well

3112
02:21:07,680 --> 02:21:12,800
certainly from the architect is that

3113
02:21:10,479 --> 02:21:14,720
some of what is actually contextual

3114
02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:18,880
relates to the fact that this is a

3115
02:21:14,720 --> 02:21:21,120
laneway and we've designed a bylaw that

3116
02:21:18,880 --> 02:21:23,520
considers this sideline as something

3117
02:21:21,120 --> 02:21:25,920
different than what it's perceived of in

3118
02:21:23,520 --> 02:21:27,680
the street. And that's certainly an

3119
02:21:25,920 --> 02:21:29,359
issue that we probably we may not have

3120
02:21:27,680 --> 02:21:31,439
considered. I know I didn't think about

3121
02:21:29,359 --> 02:21:33,280
that actively when we were discussing

3122
02:21:31,439 --> 02:21:36,240
our framework before and I think that's

3123
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:38,920
an important consideration that may need

3124
02:21:36,240 --> 02:21:42,800
a further looking at.

3125
02:21:38,920 --> 02:21:46,080
Um and I and I also think that what is

3126
02:21:42,800 --> 02:21:49,600
being asked for in the community is just

3127
02:21:46,080 --> 02:21:52,479
um as somebody well put it really quite

3128
02:21:49,600 --> 02:21:55,439
nicely is just sort of some kind of um

3129
02:21:52,479 --> 02:21:58,000
collaborative approach or or um working

3130
02:21:55,439 --> 02:22:00,640
together to achieve an outcome in the in

3131
02:21:58,000 --> 02:22:02,399
the form of this building that wouldn't

3132
02:22:00,640 --> 02:22:04,640
necess that wouldn't require these

3133
02:22:02,399 --> 02:22:07,760
variances and white address some other

3134
02:22:04,640 --> 02:22:10,160
concerns. So, I'm really struggling in

3135
02:22:07,760 --> 02:22:12,080
permitting or and in voting to approve

3136
02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:16,080
variances when I think there might still

3137
02:22:12,080 --> 02:22:19,359
be a better outcome um if we say no to

3138
02:22:16,080 --> 02:22:21,200
them and then the designer, the owner

3139
02:22:19,359 --> 02:22:23,760
have to go away and think about how they

3140
02:22:21,200 --> 02:22:28,080
would realize this this ADU on this

3141
02:22:23,760 --> 02:22:29,439
particular piece of property. Um, and

3142
02:22:28,080 --> 02:22:31,600
yeah, I think that's all I want to say

3143
02:22:29,439 --> 02:22:32,800
at the moment. I'm not I'm not entirely

3144
02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:35,520
sure how I'm going to vote at the

3145
02:22:32,800 --> 02:22:37,040
moment, but I am really torn about the

3146
02:22:35,520 --> 02:22:39,600
whole situation that we find ourselves

3147
02:22:37,040 --> 02:22:41,680
in as we're in such early days about

3148
02:22:39,600 --> 02:22:48,399
figuring out how we how we create and

3149
02:22:41,680 --> 02:22:50,960
maintain beauty and um uh and a a some

3150
02:22:48,399 --> 02:22:53,640
kind of coherence I think to our to our

3151
02:22:50,960 --> 02:22:56,319
our streetscapes while

3152
02:22:53,640 --> 02:22:58,600
permitting wonderful new homes. like I

3153
02:22:56,319 --> 02:23:01,040
don't think this thing is too large

3154
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:04,240
necessarily. Um I think it makes a

3155
02:23:01,040 --> 02:23:06,319
lovely uh additional living unit in our

3156
02:23:04,240 --> 02:23:08,399
community, but there are there are

3157
02:23:06,319 --> 02:23:10,399
issues at large that will never be

3158
02:23:08,399 --> 02:23:12,399
addressed if we approve these variances

3159
02:23:10,399 --> 02:23:13,760
tonight.

3160
02:23:12,399 --> 02:23:15,280
Thank you, Councelor Watson. Councelor

3161
02:23:13,760 --> 02:23:18,800
Patterson.

3162
02:23:15,280 --> 02:23:20,960
Yes. Thank you, Mayor. And um I share

3163
02:23:18,800 --> 02:23:22,680
some of Councelor Watson's concerns. I

3164
02:23:20,960 --> 02:23:25,920
realize that

3165
02:23:22,680 --> 02:23:29,439
uh when we when we look at at some of

3166
02:23:25,920 --> 02:23:32,319
what we have uh decided um as a council

3167
02:23:29,439 --> 02:23:35,479
we would um accept as changes to the

3168
02:23:32,319 --> 02:23:38,720
bylaw um then and looking at this

3169
02:23:35,479 --> 02:23:43,280
this kind of meets meets those those

3170
02:23:38,720 --> 02:23:47,359
needs if it comes back and is approved.

3171
02:23:43,280 --> 02:23:49,120
But um uh it it is it is very difficult

3172
02:23:47,359 --> 02:23:51,000
as we're going through this process

3173
02:23:49,120 --> 02:23:54,720
because

3174
02:23:51,000 --> 02:23:57,200
um what we are looking at in in adopting

3175
02:23:54,720 --> 02:23:58,800
some of these new standards is really

3176
02:23:57,200 --> 02:24:02,080
based on kind of a cookie cutter

3177
02:23:58,800 --> 02:24:05,120
approach and so many lots in Oak Bay

3178
02:24:02,080 --> 02:24:09,040
just don't fit that they don't fit that

3179
02:24:05,120 --> 02:24:13,280
model and certainly this case is um a

3180
02:24:09,040 --> 02:24:16,000
clear example of where uh uh Yeah, a

3181
02:24:13,280 --> 02:24:18,319
more collaborative approach um could

3182
02:24:16,000 --> 02:24:21,120
perhaps work better for the community

3183
02:24:18,319 --> 02:24:23,520
over over the long term. So I too

3184
02:24:21,120 --> 02:24:26,640
struggle with approving what is before

3185
02:24:23,520 --> 02:24:30,240
us tonight, which conceptually I think

3186
02:24:26,640 --> 02:24:33,359
is good design. Um it provides good

3187
02:24:30,240 --> 02:24:36,000
housing solutions uh to suit the purpose

3188
02:24:33,359 --> 02:24:39,439
of why it is is being proposed and

3189
02:24:36,000 --> 02:24:41,840
before us. I certainly um commend the

3190
02:24:39,439 --> 02:24:44,160
fact that we've we've gone for eight

3191
02:24:41,840 --> 02:24:47,040
foot ceilings, not not tried to push the

3192
02:24:44,160 --> 02:24:50,479
ceiling height more and tried to uh

3193
02:24:47,040 --> 02:24:53,359
maintain as many trees as possible on on

3194
02:24:50,479 --> 02:24:57,280
the lot. But this is one of these

3195
02:24:53,359 --> 02:24:59,920
situations where um what we what we as a

3196
02:24:57,280 --> 02:25:01,439
council have decided we would adopt and

3197
02:24:59,920 --> 02:25:03,560
move forward for housing in the

3198
02:25:01,439 --> 02:25:06,960
community.

3199
02:25:03,560 --> 02:25:08,760
um it it it it is not it's less than

3200
02:25:06,960 --> 02:25:12,960
ideal for this

3201
02:25:08,760 --> 02:25:15,600
situation. So I I'm I'm not totally

3202
02:25:12,960 --> 02:25:19,359
confirmed that we should move forward

3203
02:25:15,600 --> 02:25:21,840
with it um tonight and and instead refer

3204
02:25:19,359 --> 02:25:23,920
back to uh to staff to continue working

3205
02:25:21,840 --> 02:25:26,640
with the applicant and hopefully find a

3206
02:25:23,920 --> 02:25:28,560
a better um collaborative approach to

3207
02:25:26,640 --> 02:25:32,439
it. But I'm listening to all of the

3208
02:25:28,560 --> 02:25:32,439
comments around the table.

3209
02:25:32,720 --> 02:25:36,800
Uh thank you. I guess I'll speak my

3210
02:25:34,240 --> 02:25:39,160
piece on this one and I I do want to um

3211
02:25:36,800 --> 02:25:42,000
just really focus on the

3212
02:25:39,160 --> 02:25:44,240
um on the variances and the impacts the

3213
02:25:42,000 --> 02:25:45,680
rabbi. I think this is a like many of

3214
02:25:44,240 --> 02:25:46,880
these that we have coming forward as a

3215
02:25:45,680 --> 02:25:48,960
good learning experience. I don't think

3216
02:25:46,880 --> 02:25:51,280
when we were contemplating our our

3217
02:25:48,960 --> 02:25:52,640
bylaws and looking at rear yard setbacks

3218
02:25:51,280 --> 02:25:54,479
that we were contemplating that would be

3219
02:25:52,640 --> 02:25:57,600
a sideyard setback in some situations

3220
02:25:54,479 --> 02:26:00,240
like this. So um but we're not looking

3221
02:25:57,600 --> 02:26:02,640
for variances uh at that point on that.

3222
02:26:00,240 --> 02:26:05,600
We're looking at them on the sideyard,

3223
02:26:02,640 --> 02:26:07,680
but I think I could have no argument

3224
02:26:05,600 --> 02:26:09,520
with the sideyard setbacks. I think the

3225
02:26:07,680 --> 02:26:10,880
um the context of the neighboring

3226
02:26:09,520 --> 02:26:13,680
buildings, this is actually set back

3227
02:26:10,880 --> 02:26:15,520
from those um the articulated front face

3228
02:26:13,680 --> 02:26:17,760
of the building. I really don't have any

3229
02:26:15,520 --> 02:26:19,920
issue with those variances uh with that

3230
02:26:17,760 --> 02:26:21,680
variance. And I certainly Yeah, I think

3231
02:26:19,920 --> 02:26:25,120
that's uh it's pretty hard to argue that

3232
02:26:21,680 --> 02:26:27,359
that isn't a positive uh benefit. Um so

3233
02:26:25,120 --> 02:26:30,080
the really then boils down to the uh

3234
02:26:27,359 --> 02:26:33,120
concern of the impact of uh allowing the

3235
02:26:30,080 --> 02:26:34,640
variances of the extra 1.3 meters or so

3236
02:26:33,120 --> 02:26:38,240
uh in the height building and roof

3237
02:26:34,640 --> 02:26:40,880
height um uh to 2144 Brighton and that's

3238
02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:43,840
a hard one because um as noted we are

3239
02:26:40,880 --> 02:26:45,760
contemplating that as a piece um uh and

3240
02:26:43,840 --> 02:26:48,560
probably good reminder that the context

3241
02:26:45,760 --> 02:26:51,520
of that the rationale for it is uh we do

3242
02:26:48,560 --> 02:26:53,920
allow two stories um the the argument

3243
02:26:51,520 --> 02:26:56,479
for the change of allowing for a higher

3244
02:26:53,920 --> 02:26:57,760
above ground height uh really rotated

3245
02:26:56,479 --> 02:27:00,240
around the fact that we were trying to

3246
02:26:57,760 --> 02:27:01,840
minimize blasting uh for these kinds of

3247
02:27:00,240 --> 02:27:04,000
accessory dwelling units, trying to make

3248
02:27:01,840 --> 02:27:05,680
sure there is adequate space above

3249
02:27:04,000 --> 02:27:08,800
ground without having them required to

3250
02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:10,399
go down into the ground. Um and there is

3251
02:27:08,800 --> 02:27:11,880
benefit to that to the community as

3252
02:27:10,399 --> 02:27:14,560
well.

3253
02:27:11,880 --> 02:27:16,240
Um I, you know, if I'm looking at this

3254
02:27:14,560 --> 02:27:19,200
and assessing it, I have to kind of use

3255
02:27:16,240 --> 02:27:21,600
my my best effort guesses. I'm familiar

3256
02:27:19,200 --> 02:27:24,640
with the house at 2144

3257
02:27:21,600 --> 02:27:26,640
um Brighton as well. Um, and I certainly

3258
02:27:24,640 --> 02:27:28,080
wouldn't want to cause any, um, lack of

3259
02:27:26,640 --> 02:27:31,200
light going into that house. It's a

3260
02:27:28,080 --> 02:27:32,960
beautiful house on a very small lot. Um,

3261
02:27:31,200 --> 02:27:36,080
uh, that being said, so I'm really then

3262
02:27:32,960 --> 02:27:39,920
down to is the is the variance ask on

3263
02:27:36,080 --> 02:27:42,240
the height um, reasonable? And I tend to

3264
02:27:39,920 --> 02:27:44,399
follow on the side that it is. Um, I do

3265
02:27:42,240 --> 02:27:46,479
appreciate that, you know, if if not

3266
02:27:44,399 --> 02:27:49,040
seeking significant blasting to ask

3267
02:27:46,479 --> 02:27:51,600
people to go down and we really can't

3268
02:27:49,040 --> 02:27:53,280
have less than 8ft heights into the

3269
02:27:51,600 --> 02:27:55,040
ceiling heights, then this is kind of

3270
02:27:53,280 --> 02:27:57,960
where we ended up, why we ended up at

3271
02:27:55,040 --> 02:28:00,720
the heights that we're at in our ADU uh

3272
02:27:57,960 --> 02:28:02,319
discussion. Um, I don't think we did

3273
02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:03,920
contemplate it. But I I will say the

3274
02:28:02,319 --> 02:28:07,760
plus side of this as well is because of

3275
02:28:03,920 --> 02:28:09,359
the the close the farther setback um the

3276
02:28:07,760 --> 02:28:10,800
building is set farther north than the

3277
02:28:09,359 --> 02:28:16,160
adjacent house. So it does allow more

3278
02:28:10,800 --> 02:28:18,160
light to that house. Uh it also um uh uh

3279
02:28:16,160 --> 02:28:19,680
it is not I say directly south of the

3280
02:28:18,160 --> 02:28:21,600
house that would block the light

3281
02:28:19,680 --> 02:28:23,760
meaningfully. It would it will block

3282
02:28:21,600 --> 02:28:25,840
let's be realistic uh a significant

3283
02:28:23,760 --> 02:28:28,319
portion of the evening light coming in.

3284
02:28:25,840 --> 02:28:30,240
Um so on the balance of those aspects I

3285
02:28:28,319 --> 02:28:33,120
do believe that the variances being

3286
02:28:30,240 --> 02:28:35,120
asked for are reasonable. Um, I'm not

3287
02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:36,880
trying to downplay the the impact on the

3288
02:28:35,120 --> 02:28:40,479
neighbors, but I do think that there is

3289
02:28:36,880 --> 02:28:42,240
a rationale for the ask here that is at

3290
02:28:40,479 --> 02:28:44,080
least compelling enough to consider. So,

3291
02:28:42,240 --> 02:28:45,600
I do appreciate the thoughts that other

3292
02:28:44,080 --> 02:28:47,399
members of council have shared here and

3293
02:28:45,600 --> 02:28:49,680
how they're weighing their their

3294
02:28:47,399 --> 02:28:51,200
thoughts. Uh, any other discussion

3295
02:28:49,680 --> 02:28:54,399
before I call the question on the main

3296
02:28:51,200 --> 02:28:56,160
motion? Yes, go ahead, Council Green.

3297
02:28:54,399 --> 02:28:57,680
Before I vote, I do hope there is a

3298
02:28:56,160 --> 02:28:59,840
compromise. I hope the neighbors can

3299
02:28:57,680 --> 02:29:02,479
come together and work something out.

3300
02:28:59,840 --> 02:29:04,080
there is time to do that and they have

3301
02:29:02,479 --> 02:29:06,160
good professionals working with them

3302
02:29:04,080 --> 02:29:07,840
including our staff. So I would be

3303
02:29:06,160 --> 02:29:10,880
encouraging those two neighbors to sit

3304
02:29:07,840 --> 02:29:12,080
down. Thank you.

3305
02:29:10,880 --> 02:29:15,120
Thank you councelor Green Council

3306
02:29:12,080 --> 02:29:16,720
Watson. And finally, because I I I I

3307
02:29:15,120 --> 02:29:18,960
just am mused about my own thoughts, but

3308
02:29:16,720 --> 02:29:20,720
I just think that um whatever happens

3309
02:29:18,960 --> 02:29:22,800
here, one of the things that is really

3310
02:29:20,720 --> 02:29:24,960
lovely is that we have an owner who is

3311
02:29:22,800 --> 02:29:28,880
going to retain an existing home that is

3312
02:29:24,960 --> 02:29:30,560
really a gem um and uh and is looking

3313
02:29:28,880 --> 02:29:32,240
for a plan that will make that happen.

3314
02:29:30,560 --> 02:29:34,240
So, that's definitely one of our values

3315
02:29:32,240 --> 02:29:36,640
and things we want to do. It's a very

3316
02:29:34,240 --> 02:29:39,200
complicated situation with many things,

3317
02:29:36,640 --> 02:29:41,120
many many issues to balance in terms of

3318
02:29:39,200 --> 02:29:43,920
making a decision. So, I just wanted to

3319
02:29:41,120 --> 02:29:46,479
say that

3320
02:29:43,920 --> 02:29:47,760
Thank you. All right, I'm going to call

3321
02:29:46,479 --> 02:29:49,359
the question on this. So, the motion on

3322
02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:52,000
the floor, just we're all clear, is a

3323
02:29:49,359 --> 02:29:53,600
varote to vote in favor is a vote to

3324
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:55,200
approve the variance. That's where we're

3325
02:29:53,600 --> 02:29:56,760
at at this point. Uh, so I'm going to

3326
02:29:55,200 --> 02:30:00,479
call the question. All those in

3327
02:29:56,760 --> 02:30:02,399
favor and those opposed. None opposed.

3328
02:30:00,479 --> 02:30:04,960
That Oh, sorry. Councelor Braith, my

3329
02:30:02,399 --> 02:30:08,040
apologies. I didn't My peripheral vision

3330
02:30:04,960 --> 02:30:10,319
apparently weak on the side.

3331
02:30:08,040 --> 02:30:14,080
U looking for you over in Spain, but you

3332
02:30:10,319 --> 02:30:16,560
weren't there. Um uh so that carries. So

3333
02:30:14,080 --> 02:30:18,960
the variances are approved. Uh building

3334
02:30:16,560 --> 02:30:21,439
will go ahead. I certainly uh share the

3335
02:30:18,960 --> 02:30:22,720
the things I um if there are things you

3336
02:30:21,439 --> 02:30:25,359
can do to mitigate the impacts on the

3337
02:30:22,720 --> 02:30:28,240
neighbors, please do um and look forward

3338
02:30:25,359 --> 02:30:29,439
to how that works out. Uh that took a

3339
02:30:28,240 --> 02:30:30,720
little longer than I was anticipating.

3340
02:30:29,439 --> 02:30:33,280
There's a number of people here who came

3341
02:30:30,720 --> 02:30:35,520
for this application. So I will give a

3342
02:30:33,280 --> 02:30:39,240
moment for people to leave before we

3343
02:30:35,520 --> 02:30:39,240
move on to the next item.

3344
02:30:39,280 --> 02:30:42,479
As people take one minute to move

3345
02:30:40,960 --> 02:30:43,760
around, if anybody wishes to stand up,

3346
02:30:42,479 --> 02:30:44,720
stretch in place, we're not going to

3347
02:30:43,760 --> 02:30:48,439
leave. We're just going to come back

3348
02:30:44,720 --> 02:30:48,439
here in less than a minute.

3349
02:30:50,399 --> 02:30:54,000
God, I can I

3350
02:31:04,040 --> 02:31:08,760
can come to recess at

3351
02:31:31,760 --> 02:31:36,880
Okay, now that the

3352
02:31:34,200 --> 02:31:38,960
uh we we're doing a switch over into the

3353
02:31:36,880 --> 02:31:42,240
next stage of the uh of the agenda

3354
02:31:38,960 --> 02:31:44,560
package. Uh we have uh section nine

3355
02:31:42,240 --> 02:31:46,240
which is reports and memorandums. Um

3356
02:31:44,560 --> 02:31:47,840
they are still subject to public input.

3357
02:31:46,240 --> 02:31:49,120
So if anybody from the public wishes to

3358
02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:51,280
address council, you're more than

3359
02:31:49,120 --> 02:31:55,040
welcome to do so. Um we're going to take

3360
02:31:51,280 --> 02:31:56,960
a brief int introduction by Mr. Sukovich

3361
02:31:55,040 --> 02:31:59,120
who's a manager of engineering capital

3362
02:31:56,960 --> 02:32:01,439
projects. Welcome. Uh and then we'll get

3363
02:31:59,120 --> 02:32:02,880
to questions from council

3364
02:32:01,439 --> 02:32:04,319
uh questions from our comments from the

3365
02:32:02,880 --> 02:32:08,240
public and then back to this table for

3366
02:32:04,319 --> 02:32:11,359
consideration. Welcome Mr. Sukovich.

3367
02:32:08,240 --> 02:32:13,439
Thank you, mayor. Uh, good evening.

3368
02:32:11,359 --> 02:32:14,880
Um, yeah. Is this the first time you

3369
02:32:13,439 --> 02:32:16,319
you've been in this chamber? No, it's

3370
02:32:14,880 --> 02:32:18,160
the second. No, it's the second time. I

3371
02:32:16,319 --> 02:32:19,280
thought so. I thought just I saw you

3372
02:32:18,160 --> 02:32:20,720
looking for the button. I wasn't sure if

3373
02:32:19,280 --> 02:32:22,960
we had the first time. I'm asking for

3374
02:32:20,720 --> 02:32:25,840
money. No,

3375
02:32:22,960 --> 02:32:28,720
fair enough. There you go. Yeah. Thank

3376
02:32:25,840 --> 02:32:31,120
you for your time today.

3377
02:32:28,720 --> 02:32:33,600
No, no, no. That's right. Hopefully, do

3378
02:32:31,120 --> 02:32:36,960
this. Okay. All right. Yeah. Thank you

3379
02:32:33,600 --> 02:32:39,600
for uh the time uh this evening to um

3380
02:32:36,960 --> 02:32:41,359
request uh approval for an increase uh

3381
02:32:39,600 --> 02:32:45,359
for the authorized expenditure amount

3382
02:32:41,359 --> 02:32:47,120
for the Estavan project. Um they're uh

3383
02:32:45,359 --> 02:32:49,359
this is one of our major capital

3384
02:32:47,120 --> 02:32:52,479
projects uh happening right now in the

3385
02:32:49,359 --> 02:32:55,280
district of Oak Bay. And um this project

3386
02:32:52,479 --> 02:32:58,560
was expanded during uh the detail design

3387
02:32:55,280 --> 02:33:00,720
stage to include um in addition to the

3388
02:32:58,560 --> 02:33:03,200
uh storm outfalls uh an additional

3389
02:33:00,720 --> 02:33:05,600
catchment to the storm outfalls, a water

3390
02:33:03,200 --> 02:33:08,399
main uh service and some additional

3391
02:33:05,600 --> 02:33:12,080
sanitary lines as well. Uh with that

3392
02:33:08,399 --> 02:33:15,120
addition uh the consulting engineers um

3393
02:33:12,080 --> 02:33:18,080
requested additional funds and uh as

3394
02:33:15,120 --> 02:33:20,880
well planned for the uh engineer record

3395
02:33:18,080 --> 02:33:22,960
uh services during construction. Uh the

3396
02:33:20,880 --> 02:33:25,920
reason this wasn't provided uh earlier

3397
02:33:22,960 --> 02:33:28,880
in January uh when we first kind of got

3398
02:33:25,920 --> 02:33:31,040
notice of it is that um we didn't have

3399
02:33:28,880 --> 02:33:33,200
the level of detail uh supporting that

3400
02:33:31,040 --> 02:33:36,080
scope of work and we wanted to ensure

3401
02:33:33,200 --> 02:33:38,319
that um there was adequate uh input from

3402
02:33:36,080 --> 02:33:40,640
the subconultants um reporting to the

3403
02:33:38,319 --> 02:33:43,280
prime consultant including archaeology

3404
02:33:40,640 --> 02:33:45,760
and um foreshore engineering and

3405
02:33:43,280 --> 02:33:47,840
environmental uh support as those are

3406
02:33:45,760 --> 02:33:51,359
major risk um aspects of these

3407
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:53,520
delivering these projects. So, I guess

3408
02:33:51,359 --> 02:33:55,600
um it would have been ideal to have had

3409
02:33:53,520 --> 02:33:56,960
this ready at the time that we approved

3410
02:33:55,600 --> 02:33:58,880
the construction budget to have it

3411
02:33:56,960 --> 02:34:01,040
together with the consulting fees, but

3412
02:33:58,880 --> 02:34:03,200
we didn't have that organized. So, I'm

3413
02:34:01,040 --> 02:34:05,359
here tonight to uh request that uh the

3414
02:34:03,200 --> 02:34:08,640
budget be expanded to for the project to

3415
02:34:05,359 --> 02:34:08,640
include the additional

3416
02:34:09,160 --> 02:34:13,040
$585,470 for the prime consultant

3417
02:34:11,840 --> 02:34:14,960
through the completion of the

3418
02:34:13,040 --> 02:34:17,120
construction. Thank you for that

3419
02:34:14,960 --> 02:34:18,720
overview. Um turn to members of council

3420
02:34:17,120 --> 02:34:20,720
if there's any questions. Councelor

3421
02:34:18,720 --> 02:34:22,800
Braithweight. Uh, thanks very much and

3422
02:34:20,720 --> 02:34:24,800
through you mayor to staff. Can you tell

3423
02:34:22,800 --> 02:34:28,640
me where in the budget this money comes

3424
02:34:24,800 --> 02:34:30,960
from? Mr. Simukovich.

3425
02:34:28,640 --> 02:34:34,319
Thank you. And through the mayor. Um,

3426
02:34:30,960 --> 02:34:37,120
this would come from the setup uh

3427
02:34:34,319 --> 02:34:40,319
project uh amount. Um, and it would

3428
02:34:37,120 --> 02:34:44,640
actually be funded through additional um

3429
02:34:40,319 --> 02:34:46,080
storm and water um capital funds. Uh,

3430
02:34:44,640 --> 02:34:48,160
but we would have to add it to the

3431
02:34:46,080 --> 02:34:50,800
project uh amount.

3432
02:34:48,160 --> 02:34:52,560
Mr. Renick. Yes. Uh just to clarify in

3433
02:34:50,800 --> 02:34:54,479
response to that question, no additional

3434
02:34:52,560 --> 02:34:56,160
transfers from reserve would be required

3435
02:34:54,479 --> 02:34:58,560
to authorize this. This would be

3436
02:34:56,160 --> 02:35:02,000
approved funding in the 2025 capital

3437
02:34:58,560 --> 02:35:03,920
plan. Thank you,

3438
02:35:02,000 --> 02:35:05,920
Dr. Watson.

3439
02:35:03,920 --> 02:35:08,160
Thank you, Mayor. Just a question to

3440
02:35:05,920 --> 02:35:11,520
staff, either one of the gentlemen in

3441
02:35:08,160 --> 02:35:13,520
attendance. Um um as I understand it and

3442
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:16,560
you can correct me if I'm wrong, the

3443
02:35:13,520 --> 02:35:19,040
project was um the pro this project was

3444
02:35:16,560 --> 02:35:22,160
bundled as a design and construction

3445
02:35:19,040 --> 02:35:24,399
project. Is that typical practice? And

3446
02:35:22,160 --> 02:35:26,479
in what cases would design occur first

3447
02:35:24,399 --> 02:35:28,080
and then construction be tendered

3448
02:35:26,479 --> 02:35:30,399
separately?

3449
02:35:28,080 --> 02:35:32,960
Okay, thank you. Uh so it would it was

3450
02:35:30,399 --> 02:35:35,200
design uh and construction services by

3451
02:35:32,960 --> 02:35:38,640
the design engineer, not a design and

3452
02:35:35,200 --> 02:35:40,080
construction by with the contractor. So,

3453
02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:43,359
thank you. I misunderstood that and

3454
02:35:40,080 --> 02:35:45,840
that's helpful. Thank you. I don't see

3455
02:35:43,359 --> 02:35:47,359
other questions from members of council.

3456
02:35:45,840 --> 02:35:49,600
So, I'm going to go to members of the

3457
02:35:47,359 --> 02:35:52,240
public. Is anybody here in the public

3458
02:35:49,600 --> 02:35:54,920
wish to speak to council about item 9.1,

3459
02:35:52,240 --> 02:35:57,800
the Estabban storm sewers and outfall

3460
02:35:54,920 --> 02:35:59,680
replacement, budget change

3461
02:35:57,800 --> 02:36:01,600
request. Don't see a lot of hands

3462
02:35:59,680 --> 02:36:02,800
popping up. So, I'm going to come Not

3463
02:36:01,600 --> 02:36:05,040
seeing any online. I'm going to come

3464
02:36:02,800 --> 02:36:07,200
back to this table. Moved and seconded

3465
02:36:05,040 --> 02:36:09,040
for receipt. All those in favor? Any

3466
02:36:07,200 --> 02:36:10,800
opposed? None opposed. I'll move the

3467
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:12,319
staff recommendation.

3468
02:36:10,800 --> 02:36:15,160
Moved and second. This is to approve the

3469
02:36:12,319 --> 02:36:18,800
contract amount of

3470
02:36:15,160 --> 02:36:18,800
$585,470. Any further

3471
02:36:19,000 --> 02:36:23,399
discussion? All those in favor? Any

3472
02:36:22,160 --> 02:36:26,680
opposed? None

3473
02:36:23,399 --> 02:36:28,439
opposed. Good luck with the

3474
02:36:26,680 --> 02:36:31,200
project. Thank

3475
02:36:28,439 --> 02:36:32,319
you. Uh we move now to section 10 for

3476
02:36:31,200 --> 02:36:34,720
committee of the whole recommendations

3477
02:36:32,319 --> 02:36:36,399
from the meeting held May 20th. Um these

3478
02:36:34,720 --> 02:36:38,240
are two items for optimized development

3479
02:36:36,399 --> 02:36:40,720
processes and grant and aid applications

3480
02:36:38,240 --> 02:36:42,479
that had public input at the committee

3481
02:36:40,720 --> 02:36:43,760
of the whole. Uh committee of the whole

3482
02:36:42,479 --> 02:36:45,280
doesn't make decisions. So those

3483
02:36:43,760 --> 02:36:47,120
recommendations come from committee to

3484
02:36:45,280 --> 02:36:48,479
this table. Uh I'm just going to see if

3485
02:36:47,120 --> 02:36:51,000
is there anybody members of the public

3486
02:36:48,479 --> 02:36:53,280
who wish to address either of these two

3487
02:36:51,000 --> 02:36:54,399
uh that perhaps didn't make it to the

3488
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:56,240
committee of the whole or wish to add

3489
02:36:54,399 --> 02:36:58,319
something to the public input. We'll

3490
02:36:56,240 --> 02:36:59,920
take them on either item at this time.

3491
02:36:58,319 --> 02:37:01,200
Otherwise, we'll typically just go to

3492
02:36:59,920 --> 02:37:06,040
council, that's the worst, and have a

3493
02:37:01,200 --> 02:37:08,000
procedural receipt uh of the of the

3494
02:37:06,040 --> 02:37:08,880
recommendations. No, seeing no hands

3495
02:37:08,000 --> 02:37:10,880
from the public. I'm going to come back

3496
02:37:08,880 --> 02:37:12,160
to this table. So, 10.1 uh the

3497
02:37:10,880 --> 02:37:13,680
recommendation from the committee of the

3498
02:37:12,160 --> 02:37:15,840
whole is here for signing off on part

3499
02:37:13,680 --> 02:37:16,960
two of the project. So, we just move the

3500
02:37:15,840 --> 02:37:19,840
recommendation that came from committee

3501
02:37:16,960 --> 02:37:22,160
of the whole. Uh any further discussion?

3502
02:37:19,840 --> 02:37:24,319
All those in favor? Any opposed? None

3503
02:37:22,160 --> 02:37:25,840
opposed. And 10.2, the grant aid

3504
02:37:24,319 --> 02:37:28,319
application, basically approving the

3505
02:37:25,840 --> 02:37:30,560
process in place. Moved and seconded.

3506
02:37:28,319 --> 02:37:33,520
Any further discussion? All those in

3507
02:37:30,560 --> 02:37:35,840
favor? Any opposed? None opposed. That

3508
02:37:33,520 --> 02:37:38,720
carries. Uh that concludes section 10.

3509
02:37:35,840 --> 02:37:40,640
We now move to section 11. Uh which is

3510
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:41,920
reports and memorandums. Uh we have the

3511
02:37:40,640 --> 02:37:43,600
Henderson and Halting estimate

3512
02:37:41,920 --> 02:37:45,680
neighborhood bikeways. Uh and this

3513
02:37:43,600 --> 02:37:49,040
includes the estimated cost breakdown.

3514
02:37:45,680 --> 02:37:52,000
Uh Mr. Renick, third times a charm. You

3515
02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:54,640
provide a brief overview of the report.

3516
02:37:52,000 --> 02:37:56,399
Uh yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

3517
02:37:54,640 --> 02:37:59,359
In response to the motion that was

3518
02:37:56,399 --> 02:38:01,680
passed by council on May 12th, uh staff

3519
02:37:59,359 --> 02:38:05,040
has prepared a bit more of a breakdown

3520
02:38:01,680 --> 02:38:07,040
of the class B estimate that associated

3521
02:38:05,040 --> 02:38:09,520
uh that was associated with the 90%

3522
02:38:07,040 --> 02:38:11,600
design submission. And uh I'm happy to

3523
02:38:09,520 --> 02:38:15,319
take any questions that council has to

3524
02:38:11,600 --> 02:38:15,319
facilitate their deliberation.

3525
02:38:15,680 --> 02:38:20,319
Much Mr. Renick. Um we're sort of back

3526
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:22,960
here again sort of considering the whole

3527
02:38:20,319 --> 02:38:25,359
of the uh of the ask. Um I'm certainly

3528
02:38:22,960 --> 02:38:29,120
taking any questions related to the

3529
02:38:25,359 --> 02:38:31,359
report uh from staff on the costs uh or

3530
02:38:29,120 --> 02:38:36,040
any other aspect at this point. Are

3531
02:38:31,359 --> 02:38:41,120
there any questions of staff on the

3532
02:38:36,040 --> 02:38:42,800
report? I'm not seeing any. So um uh

3533
02:38:41,120 --> 02:38:44,319
we've had this matter before us a couple

3534
02:38:42,800 --> 02:38:47,760
of times and tried a couple of different

3535
02:38:44,319 --> 02:38:49,359
ways of of advancing it. Um I've uh I

3536
02:38:47,760 --> 02:38:51,439
circulated ahead of this meeting just

3537
02:38:49,359 --> 02:38:52,479
some suggestions. Everybody, if you

3538
02:38:51,439 --> 02:38:55,439
check your emails, if you haven't seen

3539
02:38:52,479 --> 02:38:58,399
it, some suggested approach to motions

3540
02:38:55,439 --> 02:39:00,479
um that might allow us to clarify what

3541
02:38:58,399 --> 02:39:04,160
council wishes to see in the design

3542
02:39:00,479 --> 02:39:05,680
aspects of this and um and a possible

3543
02:39:04,160 --> 02:39:07,680
approach. Councelor Green, you mentioned

3544
02:39:05,680 --> 02:39:10,240
to me that you may want to have a a

3545
02:39:07,680 --> 02:39:11,439
motion before that. Um so, I'm happy to

3546
02:39:10,240 --> 02:39:12,960
go to you if there's something you wish

3547
02:39:11,439 --> 02:39:14,319
to to raise. I really I really

3548
02:39:12,960 --> 02:39:17,520
appreciate that. But I do have a motion

3549
02:39:14,319 --> 02:39:20,800
that I would like to make um before we

3550
02:39:17,520 --> 02:39:24,720
get into the minutia of the of the

3551
02:39:20,800 --> 02:39:26,319
issue. Um and it concerns um the Carrick

3552
02:39:24,720 --> 02:39:29,040
Trail. So I wondered if I could make

3553
02:39:26,319 --> 02:39:31,680
that motion and with your permission and

3554
02:39:29,040 --> 02:39:35,359
see if if there's any support at the

3555
02:39:31,680 --> 02:39:37,359
table. Uh sure. Is it my my suggestion

3556
02:39:35,359 --> 02:39:39,280
might be that we consider that uh it

3557
02:39:37,359 --> 02:39:40,960
changes to the design within the motions

3558
02:39:39,280 --> 02:39:43,120
of amendment. But if you wish to make it

3559
02:39:40,960 --> 02:39:44,399
at the beginning, I'm I'll take that. We

3560
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:47,760
don't really have a a motion on the

3561
02:39:44,399 --> 02:39:49,200
floor right now to a amend right

3562
02:39:47,760 --> 02:39:51,920
procedurally. So it's a bit hard to take

3563
02:39:49,200 --> 02:39:54,160
a motion to on the carrot trail at this

3564
02:39:51,920 --> 02:39:56,560
point because we don't actually have a a

3565
02:39:54,160 --> 02:39:58,399
proposed path forward. So I might

3566
02:39:56,560 --> 02:40:01,680
suggest because the path I I put here

3567
02:39:58,399 --> 02:40:04,240
was the um that we put essentially a

3568
02:40:01,680 --> 02:40:06,880
direction to to amend the original

3569
02:40:04,240 --> 02:40:08,880
design as as desired by council. And so

3570
02:40:06,880 --> 02:40:10,880
that if your motion is to amend the

3571
02:40:08,880 --> 02:40:11,920
design then that or to remove something

3572
02:40:10,880 --> 02:40:14,479
from the design that would be the

3573
02:40:11,920 --> 02:40:16,479
appropriate place I would think. So not

3574
02:40:14,479 --> 02:40:18,319
now then no if that's the motion to

3575
02:40:16,479 --> 02:40:19,359
remove like an aspect of the design I

3576
02:40:18,319 --> 02:40:23,280
think it would be better done in the

3577
02:40:19,359 --> 02:40:24,640
context of a motion to uh to advance

3578
02:40:23,280 --> 02:40:27,280
subject to the following changes and

3579
02:40:24,640 --> 02:40:29,600
then we could take a motion to from that

3580
02:40:27,280 --> 02:40:31,760
design.

3581
02:40:29,600 --> 02:40:33,439
Okay. So back to this table. Councelor

3582
02:40:31,760 --> 02:40:35,520
Smart.

3583
02:40:33,439 --> 02:40:37,439
Uh thank you. Um, I'd like to make a

3584
02:40:35,520 --> 02:40:39,120
general motion then to start us off that

3585
02:40:37,439 --> 02:40:41,120
the detailed designs for the Henderson

3586
02:40:39,120 --> 02:40:43,040
Hallane Estan neighborhood bikeways be

3587
02:40:41,120 --> 02:40:45,600
endorsed as presented with the following

3588
02:40:43,040 --> 02:40:47,840
amendments.

3589
02:40:45,600 --> 02:40:49,040
Okay.

3590
02:40:47,840 --> 02:40:51,280
Would you like me add a couple of

3591
02:40:49,040 --> 02:40:53,359
amendments to start and then or do you

3592
02:40:51,280 --> 02:40:56,800
want do you want um a seconder on just

3593
02:40:53,359 --> 02:40:58,319
the uh initial?

3594
02:40:56,800 --> 02:41:02,960
It's a good question. procedurally here.

3595
02:40:58,319 --> 02:41:05,439
I think um I think what I need to do um

3596
02:41:02,960 --> 02:41:09,040
what I'll do is I think put a motion on

3597
02:41:05,439 --> 02:41:10,800
the floor to to to approve the design.

3598
02:41:09,040 --> 02:41:14,080
Um if that's moved and seconded, then we

3599
02:41:10,800 --> 02:41:16,240
take a motion to that the following um

3600
02:41:14,080 --> 02:41:18,960
uh amendments to to change it would be

3601
02:41:16,240 --> 02:41:21,160
the appropriate process. So um I think

3602
02:41:18,960 --> 02:41:22,960
the process would be to approve as

3603
02:41:21,160 --> 02:41:23,920
designed kind of like we tried last

3604
02:41:22,960 --> 02:41:26,319
time, but I think we have a few

3605
02:41:23,920 --> 02:41:29,120
suggestions of maybe advancing this. So

3606
02:41:26,319 --> 02:41:30,960
motion to approve as designed. Moved and

3607
02:41:29,120 --> 02:41:33,200
seconded. Oh no question question for

3608
02:41:30,960 --> 02:41:35,200
clarity your worship. The original staff

3609
02:41:33,200 --> 02:41:38,399
reporting materials was to approve the

3610
02:41:35,200 --> 02:41:40,960
90% design. So that is my still my

3611
02:41:38,399 --> 02:41:43,120
understanding that we're still using the

3612
02:41:40,960 --> 02:41:46,240
original staff recommendation to approve

3613
02:41:43,120 --> 02:41:47,760
the 90% design and amending from there.

3614
02:41:46,240 --> 02:41:48,960
Uh correct. I think the only design we

3615
02:41:47,760 --> 02:41:51,600
have in front of us right now is that

3616
02:41:48,960 --> 02:41:53,200
90% design. Seconded your worship. And

3617
02:41:51,600 --> 02:41:55,520
then you wanted to make a motion that

3618
02:41:53,200 --> 02:41:58,160
the um I think we just take amendment

3619
02:41:55,520 --> 02:42:00,240
motions to that. And in my suggestions,

3620
02:41:58,160 --> 02:42:02,319
I suggested that we take iterative

3621
02:42:00,240 --> 02:42:04,399
approaches to that uh to that amendment

3622
02:42:02,319 --> 02:42:06,880
process. Uh I did actually offer to

3623
02:42:04,399 --> 02:42:08,080
councelor Green that uh that an a motion

3624
02:42:06,880 --> 02:42:09,280
to amend would be appropriate at this

3625
02:42:08,080 --> 02:42:11,600
point. So I think I'll go back to her

3626
02:42:09,280 --> 02:42:17,920
for that. Um so the motion would be then

3627
02:42:11,600 --> 02:42:19,359
to uh amend um uh that the basically uh

3628
02:42:17,920 --> 02:42:22,399
basically the following be referred back

3629
02:42:19,359 --> 02:42:24,640
to staff to incorporate um a an aspect.

3630
02:42:22,399 --> 02:42:28,319
So that's that's okay. I have I have

3631
02:42:24,640 --> 02:42:30,479
wording, but um so my motion is to amend

3632
02:42:28,319 --> 02:42:33,439
and it would be that and refer back to

3633
02:42:30,479 --> 02:42:34,960
staff um that the Henderson Road Trail

3634
02:42:33,439 --> 02:42:37,359
referred to as the Carrick Trail by

3635
02:42:34,960 --> 02:42:39,760
local residents be removed from the

3636
02:42:37,359 --> 02:42:42,319
Henderson and Holene Estan neighborhood

3637
02:42:39,760 --> 02:42:45,359
bikeway plan and then I can speak to

3638
02:42:42,319 --> 02:42:46,880
that if you'd like. Okay. Uh there is a

3639
02:42:45,359 --> 02:42:48,720
seconder. So you can speak to your

3640
02:42:46,880 --> 02:42:50,880
motion. Thank you.

3641
02:42:48,720 --> 02:42:54,960
When this active transportation plan was

3642
02:42:50,880 --> 02:42:57,920
conceived and adopted 11 years ago now,

3643
02:42:54,960 --> 02:43:01,520
the natural riding environment did not

3644
02:42:57,920 --> 02:43:03,439
include ebikes. That that um that

3645
02:43:01,520 --> 02:43:05,640
predominance now of ebikes has changed

3646
02:43:03,439 --> 02:43:08,399
the riding landscape

3647
02:43:05,640 --> 02:43:09,920
significantly. Um we've all seen the

3648
02:43:08,399 --> 02:43:12,399
Carrick Trail. We've I believe we

3649
02:43:09,920 --> 02:43:14,880
visited the area. It is a natural

3650
02:43:12,399 --> 02:43:18,080
environment, significant green space in

3651
02:43:14,880 --> 02:43:20,479
a highly densified neighborhood. It is

3652
02:43:18,080 --> 02:43:22,479
primarily a pedestrian pathway, a play

3653
02:43:20,479 --> 02:43:25,439
area for children, and a location that

3654
02:43:22,479 --> 02:43:28,359
attracts multi-use, including excursions

3655
02:43:25,439 --> 02:43:31,920
from daycare and school children. No

3656
02:43:28,359 --> 02:43:33,680
ebikes. As I said, when this ATP was

3657
02:43:31,920 --> 02:43:35,840
active transportation plan was adopted

3658
02:43:33,680 --> 02:43:37,600
11 years ago. Ebikes have completely

3659
02:43:35,840 --> 02:43:41,680
changed the cycling landscape because of

3660
02:43:37,600 --> 02:43:43,439
travel, speed, motorcycle parallels

3661
02:43:41,680 --> 02:43:44,960
without the safety of clothing,

3662
02:43:43,439 --> 02:43:47,120
training, and licensing. And I was a

3663
02:43:44,960 --> 02:43:49,920
motorcycle rider for nearly 20 years. I

3664
02:43:47,120 --> 02:43:53,359
know that these ebikes are traveling at

3665
02:43:49,920 --> 02:43:55,920
at least 30 kilometers in most instances

3666
02:43:53,359 --> 02:43:58,720
without the benefit of safety clothing,

3667
02:43:55,920 --> 02:44:01,439
proper helmets, training and licensing.

3668
02:43:58,720 --> 02:44:03,800
So there is a hazardous mix that we are

3669
02:44:01,439 --> 02:44:06,800
asking to put on this very small

3670
02:44:03,800 --> 02:44:08,560
trail. The removal of chicane gates also

3671
02:44:06,800 --> 02:44:12,319
creates a shoot through. That's a term

3672
02:44:08,560 --> 02:44:15,600
that was defined by the um Victoria Bike

3673
02:44:12,319 --> 02:44:18,240
Network, a shoot through which in in my

3674
02:44:15,600 --> 02:44:21,600
parliament means a really fast little

3675
02:44:18,240 --> 02:44:23,520
route to um another corridor. So that

3676
02:44:21,600 --> 02:44:25,240
would encourage high speed and increased

3677
02:44:23,520 --> 02:44:27,920
safety hazards.

3678
02:44:25,240 --> 02:44:31,160
Again, there are reasonable and nearby

3679
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:33,600
alternate routes halting East Newton to

3680
02:44:31,160 --> 02:44:36,319
Estavan for cyclists traveling through

3681
02:44:33,600 --> 02:44:39,120
this area and the neighborhood has been

3682
02:44:36,319 --> 02:44:43,040
very vocal about their concern of the

3683
02:44:39,120 --> 02:44:46,240
loss of um the Carrick Trail. So, I

3684
02:44:43,040 --> 02:44:47,680
would ask for support for this motion. I

3685
02:44:46,240 --> 02:44:49,680
think this would certainly help to lower

3686
02:44:47,680 --> 02:44:52,160
the temperature on the anxiety in this

3687
02:44:49,680 --> 02:44:55,760
neighborhood about the plan going

3688
02:44:52,160 --> 02:44:58,240
forward and um that is my motion. Thank

3689
02:44:55,760 --> 02:44:59,600
you.

3690
02:44:58,240 --> 02:45:01,760
Thank you, Councelor Green. We have a

3691
02:44:59,600 --> 02:45:03,680
motion on the floor to remove it from

3692
02:45:01,760 --> 02:45:04,880
the bikeway. Um other discussion on

3693
02:45:03,680 --> 02:45:06,399
that, I'm just going to ask us to keep

3694
02:45:04,880 --> 02:45:07,439
the debate as as pointed as possible

3695
02:45:06,399 --> 02:45:09,680
because we have a number of things to

3696
02:45:07,439 --> 02:45:12,479
get through. Uh councelor Smart, anybody

3697
02:45:09,680 --> 02:45:13,800
else wish to speak? Watson.

3698
02:45:12,479 --> 02:45:16,319
No, thank you.

3699
02:45:13,800 --> 02:45:18,640
Um uh I won't be supporting uh the

3700
02:45:16,319 --> 02:45:20,880
motion on the table. I do fully agree

3701
02:45:18,640 --> 02:45:24,160
that the Carrot Greenway is an extremely

3702
02:45:20,880 --> 02:45:26,640
special place. Um uh I do think it needs

3703
02:45:24,160 --> 02:45:28,479
to have a safe pedestrian pathway and I

3704
02:45:26,640 --> 02:45:30,560
do think it needs to remain a place for

3705
02:45:28,479 --> 02:45:32,800
children to play, but I am confident

3706
02:45:30,560 --> 02:45:35,520
that there can be a sensitive and

3707
02:45:32,800 --> 02:45:38,000
innovative light touch design that still

3708
02:45:35,520 --> 02:45:39,640
allows for it to be part of our our

3709
02:45:38,000 --> 02:45:43,920
network.

3710
02:45:39,640 --> 02:45:46,640
Um I yeah I I'd like to see a um

3711
02:45:43,920 --> 02:45:49,200
revitalized um light touch design um

3712
02:45:46,640 --> 02:45:50,880
come back um to council to look at and

3713
02:45:49,200 --> 02:45:53,600
review, but I'm not in favor of taking

3714
02:45:50,880 --> 02:45:56,720
it out of the route. Thank you.

3715
02:45:53,600 --> 02:45:59,920
You have councelor Watson and Appleton.

3716
02:45:56,720 --> 02:46:01,600
Thank you, Mayor. Um and um I I will not

3717
02:45:59,920 --> 02:46:04,560
be supporting the motion either. there

3718
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:06,960
isn't possibly another u proposed one we

3719
02:46:04,560 --> 02:46:09,520
could get to next which talks about

3720
02:46:06,960 --> 02:46:11,040
doing a doing a redesign to address

3721
02:46:09,520 --> 02:46:14,080
concerns that have been raised about

3722
02:46:11,040 --> 02:46:16,720
this this special part of the route but

3723
02:46:14,080 --> 02:46:19,600
I am not supportive of anything that

3724
02:46:16,720 --> 02:46:21,600
will change the route per se the routes

3725
02:46:19,600 --> 02:46:24,640
east west and north south have been

3726
02:46:21,600 --> 02:46:28,080
consulted on quite extensively now and

3727
02:46:24,640 --> 02:46:29,680
at at this kind of point in the process

3728
02:46:28,080 --> 02:46:32,399
starting discussions about what would

3729
02:46:29,680 --> 02:46:34,080
replace this log logical corridor going

3730
02:46:32,399 --> 02:46:35,840
north south I think it would be really

3731
02:46:34,080 --> 02:46:37,200
detrimental to the whole process of

3732
02:46:35,840 --> 02:46:40,160
trying to move forward our active

3733
02:46:37,200 --> 02:46:42,800
transportation strategy

3734
02:46:40,160 --> 02:46:44,560
thank you Watson council sir Appleton

3735
02:46:42,800 --> 02:46:46,880
thank you worship yeah not in support of

3736
02:46:44,560 --> 02:46:48,960
the amendment as it stands I think we've

3737
02:46:46,880 --> 02:46:50,399
heard loud and clear from folks that

3738
02:46:48,960 --> 02:46:52,160
they want to see an alternative design

3739
02:46:50,399 --> 02:46:54,240
from what was presented in the 90%

3740
02:46:52,160 --> 02:46:56,319
design for the Carrot Greenway and that

3741
02:46:54,240 --> 02:46:58,399
was also presented in his amendment last

3742
02:46:56,319 --> 02:47:00,800
time this was debated by council so I

3743
02:46:58,399 --> 02:47:03,760
think there's absolutely a need for a

3744
02:47:00,800 --> 02:47:05,680
revised design that's sensitive to that

3745
02:47:03,760 --> 02:47:07,600
specific area. Uh community has been

3746
02:47:05,680 --> 02:47:10,319
very very clear about that. I think that

3747
02:47:07,600 --> 02:47:14,479
there's a way to do that and accomplish

3748
02:47:10,319 --> 02:47:16,479
that goal and uh accomplish a a safe and

3749
02:47:14,479 --> 02:47:18,880
uh low impact environment for everybody

3750
02:47:16,479 --> 02:47:21,600
and keep the connectivity of the

3751
02:47:18,880 --> 02:47:23,040
proposed bikeway uh as it was originally

3752
02:47:21,600 --> 02:47:25,680
proposed. So I think there's a way

3753
02:47:23,040 --> 02:47:28,560
forward there. um not favor in favor of

3754
02:47:25,680 --> 02:47:30,640
the detour, but rather a redesign of uh

3755
02:47:28,560 --> 02:47:32,000
what's currently proposed to address the

3756
02:47:30,640 --> 02:47:33,520
community's concerns. Thank you, your

3757
02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:34,640
worship.

3758
02:47:33,520 --> 02:47:36,240
Thank you, Councelor Appleton. I have

3759
02:47:34,640 --> 02:47:39,200
councelor Patterson next. Yes. Thank

3760
02:47:36,240 --> 02:47:43,040
you, mayor. Um, and I will support the

3761
02:47:39,200 --> 02:47:46,240
motion because I I too agree that um it

3762
02:47:43,040 --> 02:47:48,080
will um it will help lower the

3763
02:47:46,240 --> 02:47:52,760
temperature of some of the discussions

3764
02:47:48,080 --> 02:47:56,560
and will still allow for a cycling um

3765
02:47:52,760 --> 02:47:59,920
pathway. But for me it comes down to um

3766
02:47:56,560 --> 02:48:02,880
is is this a cycling pathway or is it in

3767
02:47:59,920 --> 02:48:06,000
fact a shared use pathway? um because I

3768
02:48:02,880 --> 02:48:07,439
have h had a distinct feeling um from

3769
02:48:06,000 --> 02:48:09,439
some of the discussion that has been

3770
02:48:07,439 --> 02:48:12,880
going on that really there there's a

3771
02:48:09,439 --> 02:48:15,439
strong desire to um push the cycling

3772
02:48:12,880 --> 02:48:17,120
aspect of it uh rather than the active

3773
02:48:15,439 --> 02:48:20,319
transportation and the shared juice

3774
02:48:17,120 --> 02:48:24,880
facility and I think that there there

3775
02:48:20,319 --> 02:48:28,479
there are places where um the shared

3776
02:48:24,880 --> 02:48:30,479
juice model does is not conducive in the

3777
02:48:28,479 --> 02:48:32,319
best interests of the community and I

3778
02:48:30,479 --> 02:48:34,960
think this is one of those places. I

3779
02:48:32,319 --> 02:48:37,439
think allowing the community to uh

3780
02:48:34,960 --> 02:48:40,479
embrace it and move forward with it as

3781
02:48:37,439 --> 02:48:44,080
uh as part of the the cool kit program

3782
02:48:40,479 --> 02:48:49,680
and keep enhancing enhancing it as such.

3783
02:48:44,080 --> 02:48:53,200
Uh provides u a very safe pedestrian

3784
02:48:49,680 --> 02:48:56,319
place for the uh for the neighborhood

3785
02:48:53,200 --> 02:48:57,640
residents um and those visiting the area

3786
02:48:56,319 --> 02:49:02,319
to use it.

3787
02:48:57,640 --> 02:49:05,920
um independent of a shared use cycling

3788
02:49:02,319 --> 02:49:07,359
path. So I will support the motion.

3789
02:49:05,920 --> 02:49:10,000
Thank you. Any other discussion on the

3790
02:49:07,359 --> 02:49:11,680
motion on the floor?

3791
02:49:10,000 --> 02:49:13,760
I'll uh speak to it briefly because I

3792
02:49:11,680 --> 02:49:15,279
always I I and I appreciate the the

3793
02:49:13,760 --> 02:49:16,960
spirit in which it's brought and I it

3794
02:49:15,279 --> 02:49:18,399
may reduce temperature, but I can't

3795
02:49:16,960 --> 02:49:22,319
support the motion as it is just to

3796
02:49:18,399 --> 02:49:23,600
remove it. Um, I think that u there's a

3797
02:49:22,319 --> 02:49:25,680
I would certainly like to give the

3798
02:49:23,600 --> 02:49:27,920
opportunity to give some direction back

3799
02:49:25,680 --> 02:49:30,880
to staff to consider a redesign that

3800
02:49:27,920 --> 02:49:32,640
would allow for uh the safe joint use of

3801
02:49:30,880 --> 02:49:35,200
bikes and pedestrians. I think there's

3802
02:49:32,640 --> 02:49:38,240
ways of of prioritizing pedestrians on

3803
02:49:35,200 --> 02:49:40,160
that. Um I'm fine I'd rather have that

3804
02:49:38,240 --> 02:49:41,680
opportunity and to look at it before

3805
02:49:40,160 --> 02:49:45,120
making a decision not to include it at

3806
02:49:41,680 --> 02:49:46,240
all. So that was my my piece. So I'm not

3807
02:49:45,120 --> 02:49:48,479
going to support the motion as it is.

3808
02:49:46,240 --> 02:49:49,960
I'm very supportive of a motion that

3809
02:49:48,479 --> 02:49:53,120
would

3810
02:49:49,960 --> 02:49:54,000
uh um yeah that would think so I'm not

3811
02:49:53,120 --> 02:49:58,040
going to support the motion on the

3812
02:49:54,000 --> 02:50:00,000
floor. Any other discussion on the

3813
02:49:58,040 --> 02:50:01,200
motion? Um thank you. I'm just

3814
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:02,160
circulating anything. I circulated by

3815
02:50:01,200 --> 02:50:04,720
email just to make sure everybody's got

3816
02:50:02,160 --> 02:50:06,880
a hard copy of it in case they need it.

3817
02:50:04,720 --> 02:50:07,760
Um not seeing any other discussion. I'm

3818
02:50:06,880 --> 02:50:09,200
going to call the question on the

3819
02:50:07,760 --> 02:50:11,600
motion. The motion right now is to amend

3820
02:50:09,200 --> 02:50:14,960
the design to remove the Carrick

3821
02:50:11,600 --> 02:50:16,439
Henderson trail from that design. Uh I'm

3822
02:50:14,960 --> 02:50:19,680
going to call the question. All those in

3823
02:50:16,439 --> 02:50:21,920
favor and those opposed. I have Watson,

3824
02:50:19,680 --> 02:50:25,600
Appleton, Smart, and myself opposed.

3825
02:50:21,920 --> 02:50:27,920
That motion fails. Um, moving on to go

3826
02:50:25,600 --> 02:50:31,120
councelor Appleton. Your worship, just

3827
02:50:27,920 --> 02:50:33,520
based on uh your comments and and based

3828
02:50:31,120 --> 02:50:35,920
on the uh the the discussion around that

3829
02:50:33,520 --> 02:50:38,560
previous item, I'd like to uh propose an

3830
02:50:35,920 --> 02:50:40,800
alternative uh amendment with respect to

3831
02:50:38,560 --> 02:50:42,479
the Carrot Greenway uh in line with what

3832
02:50:40,800 --> 02:50:44,640
you have presented, which I think has

3833
02:50:42,479 --> 02:50:46,880
merit. So, I would like to move an

3834
02:50:44,640 --> 02:50:48,640
amendment to the motion on the floor to

3835
02:50:46,880 --> 02:50:50,240
revise the design for the Henderson

3836
02:50:48,640 --> 02:50:52,800
Trail, also known as the Carrick Trail,

3837
02:50:50,240 --> 02:50:54,560
between Hala and Newton, to minimize

3838
02:50:52,800 --> 02:50:56,560
elevation changes or widening of the

3839
02:50:54,560 --> 02:50:58,560
trail, to provide a design and signage

3840
02:50:56,560 --> 02:51:00,720
that keeps bicycle speed compatible with

3841
02:50:58,560 --> 02:51:02,479
pedestrian enjoyment of the trail, and

3842
02:51:00,720 --> 02:51:05,120
to protect and enhance the green space

3843
02:51:02,479 --> 02:51:07,520
of the corridor.

3844
02:51:05,120 --> 02:51:09,840
Seconded.

3845
02:51:07,520 --> 02:51:13,279
Um, so this is a mo motion to amend the

3846
02:51:09,840 --> 02:51:15,000
design to include uh for those changes

3847
02:51:13,279 --> 02:51:18,560
to come back with the revised

3848
02:51:15,000 --> 02:51:20,319
design. So speaking to the she just

3849
02:51:18,560 --> 02:51:21,600
briefly your worship. So again just to

3850
02:51:20,319 --> 02:51:23,439
my earlier point I think we've heard

3851
02:51:21,600 --> 02:51:26,000
loud and clear that there is an interest

3852
02:51:23,439 --> 02:51:29,200
in creating a sensitive design for the

3853
02:51:26,000 --> 02:51:32,319
Carrick Trail. Um and so I think sending

3854
02:51:29,200 --> 02:51:34,080
this to staff for a design revision that

3855
02:51:32,319 --> 02:51:37,040
responds to some of the concerns that

3856
02:51:34,080 --> 02:51:39,840
were raised and addressing bicycle speed

3857
02:51:37,040 --> 02:51:41,600
and shared use of the corridor I think

3858
02:51:39,840 --> 02:51:44,240
is eminently reasonable. So I think that

3859
02:51:41,600 --> 02:51:47,359
this is a a good amendment that keeps

3860
02:51:44,240 --> 02:51:49,640
the alignment as was directed by council

3861
02:51:47,359 --> 02:51:52,240
when the original uh concept was

3862
02:51:49,640 --> 02:51:54,319
approved and allows us to respond to

3863
02:51:52,240 --> 02:51:56,960
what the community is telling us. Thank

3864
02:51:54,319 --> 02:52:00,720
you. Thank you. I have councelor Green

3865
02:51:56,960 --> 02:52:04,160
and then smart and then Breathway.

3866
02:52:00,720 --> 02:52:06,080
Um I will not support this motion and um

3867
02:52:04,160 --> 02:52:08,399
I will remind councelor Appleton that

3868
02:52:06,080 --> 02:52:10,560
when we approved this plan we did not

3869
02:52:08,399 --> 02:52:12,560
have the information we have today. We

3870
02:52:10,560 --> 02:52:14,960
did not have the input and data from the

3871
02:52:12,560 --> 02:52:19,200
neighborhood. We did not have um

3872
02:52:14,960 --> 02:52:21,760
sufficient consultation and so I I am

3873
02:52:19,200 --> 02:52:24,640
quite comfortable in changing my mind

3874
02:52:21,760 --> 02:52:27,120
given that I have been informed um in in

3875
02:52:24,640 --> 02:52:30,319
in a much different way since that time.

3876
02:52:27,120 --> 02:52:32,880
I will also add that what whatever you

3877
02:52:30,319 --> 02:52:35,200
do a light touch means what exactly and

3878
02:52:32,880 --> 02:52:38,279
I think these term terms are very

3879
02:52:35,200 --> 02:52:40,640
confusing for the public. light touch uh

3880
02:52:38,279 --> 02:52:42,560
redesign. I think no one knows what that

3881
02:52:40,640 --> 02:52:45,040
means. And if if we're going to do that,

3882
02:52:42,560 --> 02:52:46,880
then I would encourage us to collaborate

3883
02:52:45,040 --> 02:52:50,000
with with the neighborhood that will be

3884
02:52:46,880 --> 02:52:52,399
mostly most impacted by by any changes

3885
02:52:50,000 --> 02:52:55,840
that are made, but I will not support

3886
02:52:52,399 --> 02:52:57,520
the motion as it is. Thank you.

3887
02:52:55,840 --> 02:52:59,040
Thank you, Councelor Green. Uh councelor

3888
02:52:57,520 --> 02:53:02,160
Braithweight, I think you had next or

3889
02:52:59,040 --> 02:53:05,279
smart, sorry, then Brie.

3890
02:53:02,160 --> 02:53:06,880
Yeah, thank you. Um just speaking to um

3891
02:53:05,279 --> 02:53:08,720
supporting the motion and just wanted to

3892
02:53:06,880 --> 02:53:10,399
add to what has already been said just

3893
02:53:08,720 --> 02:53:13,439
the ability to keep some of the

3894
02:53:10,399 --> 02:53:15,040
beautiful bedrock outcroppings um that

3895
02:53:13,439 --> 02:53:17,520
really provide a sense of character in

3896
02:53:15,040 --> 02:53:19,760
the space as well as reducing the the

3897
02:53:17,520 --> 02:53:22,240
paving and really looking at innovative

3898
02:53:19,760 --> 02:53:24,160
um approaches of of paving less and even

3899
02:53:22,240 --> 02:53:27,040
where some of the trees are potentially

3900
02:53:24,160 --> 02:53:28,160
you know having smaller paths one

3901
02:53:27,040 --> 02:53:29,600
directional paths. There's so many

3902
02:53:28,160 --> 02:53:32,479
different opportunities to be a little

3903
02:53:29,600 --> 02:53:37,200
bit more innovative um uh a little bit

3904
02:53:32,479 --> 02:53:38,960
more minimal um while still um basically

3905
02:53:37,200 --> 02:53:41,680
um addressing the fact that this already

3906
02:53:38,960 --> 02:53:43,600
is a path that bicycles can go on. So

3907
02:53:41,680 --> 02:53:46,720
let's actually deal with making it

3908
02:53:43,600 --> 02:53:49,040
making it better for everybody.

3909
02:53:46,720 --> 02:53:50,800
So brief. Uh thanks very much. I I would

3910
02:53:49,040 --> 02:53:54,399
agree with Councelor Green's comments.

3911
02:53:50,800 --> 02:53:56,160
Um, and and when I look at some of the

3912
02:53:54,399 --> 02:53:57,680
wording here, like minimize elevation

3913
02:53:56,160 --> 02:53:59,279
changes or widening of the trail,

3914
02:53:57,680 --> 02:54:01,479
provide a design and signage that keeps

3915
02:53:59,279 --> 02:54:04,319
bicycle speed compatible with pedestrian

3916
02:54:01,479 --> 02:54:05,680
enjoyment. Um, and protect and enhance

3917
02:54:04,319 --> 02:54:07,200
the green space of the corridor. Well,

3918
02:54:05,680 --> 02:54:09,279
what better way to protect the and

3919
02:54:07,200 --> 02:54:12,319
enhance the green space of the corridor

3920
02:54:09,279 --> 02:54:15,359
by not doing um by not removing any of

3921
02:54:12,319 --> 02:54:17,120
the of the um green space by by not

3922
02:54:15,359 --> 02:54:19,760
blasting out any of the rock. I mean,

3923
02:54:17,120 --> 02:54:21,920
for me, I like the way it looks right

3924
02:54:19,760 --> 02:54:24,560
now. I think that it's used as a bike

3925
02:54:21,920 --> 02:54:26,479
way right now. Um, and it's used

3926
02:54:24,560 --> 02:54:28,080
successfully as a bike way right now.

3927
02:54:26,479 --> 02:54:30,479
There doesn't seem to me to be any

3928
02:54:28,080 --> 02:54:32,160
change. We can keep it in the plan, but

3929
02:54:30,479 --> 02:54:34,640
we don't need to make any changes to it

3930
02:54:32,160 --> 02:54:36,319
whatsoever in my humble opinion. And I

3931
02:54:34,640 --> 02:54:38,319
think having the gates there really

3932
02:54:36,319 --> 02:54:39,840
helps um to not have it as a speed

3933
02:54:38,319 --> 02:54:43,040
through or shoot through or whatever the

3934
02:54:39,840 --> 02:54:46,000
terminology is. So, um even though I

3935
02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:50,240
appreciate that this is trying to um

3936
02:54:46,000 --> 02:54:54,319
move us forward to inclusive and keep

3937
02:54:50,240 --> 02:54:57,200
the keep this um design as a a a full

3938
02:54:54,319 --> 02:54:58,479
design of of this space. I I actually

3939
02:54:57,200 --> 02:55:01,600
personally don't think we need to make

3940
02:54:58,479 --> 02:55:03,760
any changes to it. Um and so it scares

3941
02:55:01,600 --> 02:55:05,359
me when I I see the minimize elevation

3942
02:55:03,760 --> 02:55:07,200
changes or widening of the trail because

3943
02:55:05,359 --> 02:55:11,120
I don't want to see any of that. So, I

3944
02:55:07,200 --> 02:55:12,880
will be voting against the motion.

3945
02:55:11,120 --> 02:55:14,880
Mr. Patterson.

3946
02:55:12,880 --> 02:55:18,000
Yes. Thank you, Mayor. I will also speak

3947
02:55:14,880 --> 02:55:21,760
against the motion. I I do um I do

3948
02:55:18,000 --> 02:55:23,200
appreciate that um that uh council

3949
02:55:21,760 --> 02:55:26,399
members have been listening to members

3950
02:55:23,200 --> 02:55:28,800
of the public that have have um spoken

3951
02:55:26,399 --> 02:55:32,080
extensively about this and the need to

3952
02:55:28,800 --> 02:55:34,960
protect it. I'm less confident that um

3953
02:55:32,080 --> 02:55:36,640
that uh just minimizing elevations

3954
02:55:34,960 --> 02:55:38,720
changes or widening the trail and

3955
02:55:36,640 --> 02:55:40,479
particularly providing design and

3956
02:55:38,720 --> 02:55:42,800
signage that keeps bicycle speed

3957
02:55:40,479 --> 02:55:45,279
compatible with pedestrian enjoyment. I

3958
02:55:42,800 --> 02:55:48,640
think it's it's you know it's wishful

3959
02:55:45,279 --> 02:55:51,680
thinking to think that signage will um

3960
02:55:48,640 --> 02:55:54,800
in fact uh achieve reduction of of speed

3961
02:55:51,680 --> 02:55:56,399
to u maintain not just pedestrian

3962
02:55:54,800 --> 02:55:58,640
enjoyment. It's not just pedestrian

3963
02:55:56,399 --> 02:56:02,640
enjoyment. it's pedestrian safety on the

3964
02:55:58,640 --> 02:56:05,120
trail. Um, and I don't see that uh

3965
02:56:02,640 --> 02:56:08,080
expressed as a concern in here. So, I

3966
02:56:05,120 --> 02:56:10,960
think that that the the trail in its

3967
02:56:08,080 --> 02:56:15,600
present form has existed for decades

3968
02:56:10,960 --> 02:56:17,800
now. Um it is it is used by extensively

3969
02:56:15,600 --> 02:56:22,080
by pedestrians, predominantly by

3970
02:56:17,800 --> 02:56:25,359
pedestrians and uh by some some cyclists

3971
02:56:22,080 --> 02:56:28,560
who who are not riding perhaps ebikes

3972
02:56:25,359 --> 02:56:32,160
but they are they are riding um standard

3973
02:56:28,560 --> 02:56:34,240
bicycles at at a moderate pace um

3974
02:56:32,160 --> 02:56:36,680
respecting the chicane gates that are

3975
02:56:34,240 --> 02:56:39,680
are there that uh provide safety for

3976
02:56:36,680 --> 02:56:43,200
pedestrians. So, um, what I see before

3977
02:56:39,680 --> 02:56:45,760
me, while it it's it's a step towards

3978
02:56:43,200 --> 02:56:47,359
recognizing that pedestrians also have a

3979
02:56:45,760 --> 02:56:50,240
right on the path, it still is

3980
02:56:47,359 --> 02:56:52,000
predominantly, uh, promoting this as a

3981
02:56:50,240 --> 02:56:54,080
cycling path rather than a pedestrian

3982
02:56:52,000 --> 02:56:55,680
path.

3983
02:56:54,080 --> 02:56:56,880
Thank you, Councelor Patterson. Council

3984
02:56:55,680 --> 02:56:59,279
Watson, did you wish to speak? And then

3985
02:56:56,880 --> 02:57:00,960
I'll go to second time speakers. Just

3986
02:56:59,279 --> 02:57:02,560
very briefly, I will be supporting the

3987
02:57:00,960 --> 02:57:03,760
motion. I think it's very clearly

3988
02:57:02,560 --> 02:57:07,880
worded. there are really clear

3989
02:57:03,760 --> 02:57:10,960
objectives about in uh doing things to

3990
02:57:07,880 --> 02:57:14,319
enhance a treasured space that will make

3991
02:57:10,960 --> 02:57:16,080
it better for both sets of users. And as

3992
02:57:14,319 --> 02:57:17,680
I've argued here before, there are

3993
02:57:16,080 --> 02:57:19,520
certainly aspects of the existing

3994
02:57:17,680 --> 02:57:21,920
arrangement which are not conducive to

3995
02:57:19,520 --> 02:57:23,520
pedestrian activity through the area

3996
02:57:21,920 --> 02:57:25,479
particularly for anybody that has any

3997
02:57:23,520 --> 02:57:28,960
kind of physical mobility problem or

3998
02:57:25,479 --> 02:57:31,120
impairment. So I think to get a just as

3999
02:57:28,960 --> 02:57:34,640
we are designing this this whole network

4000
02:57:31,120 --> 02:57:38,640
to allow bicycles and cars to share the

4001
02:57:34,640 --> 02:57:42,720
road uh giving um you know support to

4002
02:57:38,640 --> 02:57:45,680
cyclists here we I the outcome if these

4003
02:57:42,720 --> 02:57:49,040
objectives are met will be to create a

4004
02:57:45,680 --> 02:57:53,200
way to share this special space uh where

4005
02:57:49,040 --> 02:57:55,680
pedestrians um are are protected um and

4006
02:57:53,200 --> 02:57:57,439
I think that's possible. So, um it's an

4007
02:57:55,680 --> 02:58:00,319
important part of the trail and I think

4008
02:57:57,439 --> 02:58:02,000
we could achieve um a really special

4009
02:58:00,319 --> 02:58:04,640
outcome if we do a little bit of work on

4010
02:58:02,000 --> 02:58:06,160
the space. Thank you.

4011
02:58:04,640 --> 02:58:08,000
Thank you, Council Wson. Before I go to

4012
02:58:06,160 --> 02:58:12,080
second time speakers, I'll just want to

4013
02:58:08,000 --> 02:58:14,479
speak to the motion. Um so, I uh I am

4014
02:58:12,080 --> 02:58:18,720
supportive of this approach. I just I

4015
02:58:14,479 --> 02:58:21,600
guess my hope here is um uh we look at

4016
02:58:18,720 --> 02:58:24,240
this as a whole and and look at every

4017
02:58:21,600 --> 02:58:26,399
opportunity as does the motion improve

4018
02:58:24,240 --> 02:58:28,000
it and if I think we had a chance to

4019
02:58:26,399 --> 02:58:30,319
have a discussion around removal of this

4020
02:58:28,000 --> 02:58:32,880
from the bikeways and that didn't pass.

4021
02:58:30,319 --> 02:58:35,840
Um, so now I guess my my thought on this

4022
02:58:32,880 --> 02:58:38,240
is if not removing it then we still have

4023
02:58:35,840 --> 02:58:40,160
this pathway that's going to right now

4024
02:58:38,240 --> 02:58:42,319
has substantive changes to it with

4025
02:58:40,160 --> 02:58:45,279
significant widening, removal of green

4026
02:58:42,319 --> 02:58:47,600
space, blasting, reorienting. Um, my

4027
02:58:45,279 --> 02:58:49,040
appro my opinion is is shared by I think

4028
02:58:47,600 --> 02:58:51,600
what I heard from the people who are

4029
02:58:49,040 --> 02:58:54,160
currently indicating non-sup support. I

4030
02:58:51,600 --> 02:58:57,040
think that the trail as it is meets most

4031
02:58:54,160 --> 02:58:59,279
of the needs of the community. Um that

4032
02:58:57,040 --> 02:59:01,680
being said, I think that allowing this

4033
02:58:59,279 --> 02:59:05,359
to go back with these guidelines

4034
02:59:01,680 --> 02:59:07,200
attached to it um you know without

4035
02:59:05,359 --> 02:59:08,880
prescribing exactly what that is will

4036
02:59:07,200 --> 02:59:11,520
allow it to come back to this table if

4037
02:59:08,880 --> 02:59:13,439
the whole goes forward. I think it will.

4038
02:59:11,520 --> 02:59:16,160
So I guess I might ask here is that if

4039
02:59:13,439 --> 02:59:18,319
you if you support changes to that then

4040
02:59:16,160 --> 02:59:21,359
I would suggest you support the motion

4041
02:59:18,319 --> 02:59:22,960
at the end of the time. um if you don't

4042
02:59:21,359 --> 02:59:24,399
support the overall changes that are put

4043
02:59:22,960 --> 02:59:25,920
in there, then we can't support the

4044
02:59:24,399 --> 02:59:28,240
overall motion and that's that's the way

4045
02:59:25,920 --> 02:59:30,399
this goes. Um but I do think that our

4046
02:59:28,240 --> 02:59:32,399
job at every iterative approach is does

4047
02:59:30,399 --> 02:59:35,040
the motion on the floor improve the

4048
02:59:32,399 --> 02:59:36,399
design so that if it does go forward, it

4049
02:59:35,040 --> 02:59:38,160
would be a better design at the end of

4050
02:59:36,399 --> 02:59:39,720
it. And that's how I'm looking at this.

4051
02:59:38,160 --> 02:59:42,240
I'm looking at this. Are these

4052
02:59:39,720 --> 02:59:43,880
recommendations back to staff to say

4053
02:59:42,240 --> 02:59:46,240
improve the pedestrian

4054
02:59:43,880 --> 02:59:48,399
safety, you know, minimize if if not

4055
02:59:46,240 --> 02:59:50,240
eliminate any removal of rock, uh

4056
02:59:48,399 --> 02:59:52,160
maintain green space, focus the design

4057
02:59:50,240 --> 02:59:54,960
to make sure that the design and the

4058
02:59:52,160 --> 02:59:56,319
signage, but I think primarily design uh

4059
02:59:54,960 --> 02:59:58,720
helps with pedestrian safety and

4060
02:59:56,319 --> 03:00:00,240
enjoyment. Um that's my that's just so

4061
02:59:58,720 --> 03:00:03,040
people understand my philosophy on this

4062
03:00:00,240 --> 03:00:04,560
one. It's not is it going to I I don't

4063
03:00:03,040 --> 03:00:07,760
not trying to presuppose it. I'm trying

4064
03:00:04,560 --> 03:00:09,279
to uh give back to staff guidelines that

4065
03:00:07,760 --> 03:00:10,800
will help them come back with options

4066
03:00:09,279 --> 03:00:13,120
that that address the concerns that have

4067
03:00:10,800 --> 03:00:14,160
been raised here. So, um that's kind of

4068
03:00:13,120 --> 03:00:15,439
the spirit I think that if we're going

4069
03:00:14,160 --> 03:00:17,200
to go through this process that we kind

4070
03:00:15,439 --> 03:00:19,680
of look at it. So, sorry, Council Green,

4071
03:00:17,200 --> 03:00:22,560
over to you for a second time.

4072
03:00:19,680 --> 03:00:24,960
I guess my point is that why are we

4073
03:00:22,560 --> 03:00:28,720
touching this lane at all? It works for

4074
03:00:24,960 --> 03:00:30,960
bicycles now. It has for decades. Um

4075
03:00:28,720 --> 03:00:32,720
what concerns me about this new approach

4076
03:00:30,960 --> 03:00:35,600
is that it's through the lens only of

4077
03:00:32,720 --> 03:00:37,920
cycling. is a cycling centric approach

4078
03:00:35,600 --> 03:00:40,240
and I'm really concerned about that. Why

4079
03:00:37,920 --> 03:00:42,160
would we alter something that already

4080
03:00:40,240 --> 03:00:44,640
works for everybody? And and we've been

4081
03:00:42,160 --> 03:00:47,520
told that over and over again. It is

4082
03:00:44,640 --> 03:00:51,279
used by cyclists now safely. It's used

4083
03:00:47,520 --> 03:00:54,080
by pedestrians now safely as it is. And

4084
03:00:51,279 --> 03:00:57,359
they've even now incorporated it into

4085
03:00:54,080 --> 03:00:59,600
the cool kit program. They're rewing uh

4086
03:00:57,359 --> 03:01:02,000
the native plants. They're they're doing

4087
03:00:59,600 --> 03:01:04,960
all kinds of things to make in a very

4088
03:01:02,000 --> 03:01:06,800
high dense area to make a green space

4089
03:01:04,960 --> 03:01:09,200
that's very special and serves the needs

4090
03:01:06,800 --> 03:01:12,399
of the neighborhood as it is. Why do we

4091
03:01:09,200 --> 03:01:14,800
want to alter it? I just I guess I I I

4092
03:01:12,399 --> 03:01:16,560
don't understand that. Which is why I

4093
03:01:14,800 --> 03:01:20,080
thought it made sense to pull it out of

4094
03:01:16,560 --> 03:01:23,680
the plan because it's still there. It

4095
03:01:20,080 --> 03:01:26,240
still takes bicycles. But if it's if

4096
03:01:23,680 --> 03:01:28,560
you're wanting to improve it to make a

4097
03:01:26,240 --> 03:01:30,240
commuting trail, then I'm very concerned

4098
03:01:28,560 --> 03:01:32,240
because that's what will happen. Any

4099
03:01:30,240 --> 03:01:35,760
improvements you make, you will up the

4100
03:01:32,240 --> 03:01:38,200
speed of those ebikes particularly. Um

4101
03:01:35,760 --> 03:01:41,200
it will no longer be a

4102
03:01:38,200 --> 03:01:44,800
quiet contemplative place to be. It will

4103
03:01:41,200 --> 03:01:46,640
be a shoot through and I think that is

4104
03:01:44,800 --> 03:01:49,920
going to spoil the whole thing. But

4105
03:01:46,640 --> 03:01:51,520
anyway, those are my comments. I I I

4106
03:01:49,920 --> 03:01:55,120
really wish people would reconsider, but

4107
03:01:51,520 --> 03:01:56,960
that's the way it is. Counc Patterson.

4108
03:01:55,120 --> 03:02:00,880
Uh, thanks very much and and I I do

4109
03:01:56,960 --> 03:02:03,120
appreciate the the um this coming back,

4110
03:02:00,880 --> 03:02:06,960
this this um this motion in its in its

4111
03:02:03,120 --> 03:02:08,880
wording, etc. Um and and you know, but

4112
03:02:06,960 --> 03:02:10,640
does it improve the design? And and I

4113
03:02:08,880 --> 03:02:12,479
don't think it does. And when it comes

4114
03:02:10,640 --> 03:02:15,200
back, because it looks to me like this

4115
03:02:12,479 --> 03:02:16,800
is going to move forward. Um but when it

4116
03:02:15,200 --> 03:02:19,200
comes back, then we have the opportunity

4117
03:02:16,800 --> 03:02:20,880
to to approve it. it when we see what

4118
03:02:19,200 --> 03:02:22,560
staff staff brings back. So, I think

4119
03:02:20,880 --> 03:02:24,960
that voting against it now doesn't mean

4120
03:02:22,560 --> 03:02:26,720
that that we're not going to when when

4121
03:02:24,960 --> 03:02:28,399
it comes back to us, we might look at

4122
03:02:26,720 --> 03:02:30,000
that design and say, "Yeah, that's

4123
03:02:28,399 --> 03:02:32,000
really great. We we want to approve

4124
03:02:30,000 --> 03:02:33,840
that." Um, and I just want to clarify

4125
03:02:32,000 --> 03:02:37,600
something that Councelor Watson said in

4126
03:02:33,840 --> 03:02:40,240
regards to um the um mobility vehicles

4127
03:02:37,600 --> 03:02:42,080
and how they they how they can get or

4128
03:02:40,240 --> 03:02:43,359
that they can't get through that space

4129
03:02:42,080 --> 03:02:45,279
right now. And I I don't think that's

4130
03:02:43,359 --> 03:02:47,840
correct, Councelor Watson. I believe,

4131
03:02:45,279 --> 03:02:49,359
and I'm not sure if staff has has the um

4132
03:02:47,840 --> 03:02:52,399
information on this, but I believe that

4133
03:02:49,359 --> 03:02:54,479
those gates are actually wide enough for

4134
03:02:52,399 --> 03:02:57,439
um wheelchairs, etc. to pass through

4135
03:02:54,479 --> 03:02:59,439
them. Um they I I believe they are 48 in

4136
03:02:57,439 --> 03:03:02,240
wide, and I believe a wheelchair is

4137
03:02:59,439 --> 03:03:04,800
something like 33.5 in wide. So, I think

4138
03:03:02,240 --> 03:03:06,960
as as those gates stand right now, they

4139
03:03:04,800 --> 03:03:09,920
are they are passable with mobility

4140
03:03:06,960 --> 03:03:11,760
vehicles.

4141
03:03:09,920 --> 03:03:13,439
I'm just going to ask everybody to just

4142
03:03:11,760 --> 03:03:15,439
not speak directly to anybody else just

4143
03:03:13,439 --> 03:03:16,399
through to me. Uh just to make this

4144
03:03:15,439 --> 03:03:18,000
because I think this is a bit of a

4145
03:03:16,399 --> 03:03:19,359
contentious topic at times and just that

4146
03:03:18,000 --> 03:03:20,800
wasn't anything rude, but I just want to

4147
03:03:19,359 --> 03:03:22,120
make sure that we just keep that the

4148
03:03:20,800 --> 03:03:26,080
quorum.

4149
03:03:22,120 --> 03:03:28,319
Um is the uh councelor Patterson next?

4150
03:03:26,080 --> 03:03:31,040
Yes. Thank you, mayor. I I do appreciate

4151
03:03:28,319 --> 03:03:33,520
that this is is attempting to move this

4152
03:03:31,040 --> 03:03:36,800
forward and I I I suppose I have an

4153
03:03:33,520 --> 03:03:41,520
additional ask then if um if this goes

4154
03:03:36,800 --> 03:03:44,720
through um and uh and that would be that

4155
03:03:41,520 --> 03:03:49,760
um we actually use the tool that we we

4156
03:03:44,720 --> 03:03:53,439
have now available and um we also u

4157
03:03:49,760 --> 03:03:58,080
engage the uh accessibility advisory

4158
03:03:53,439 --> 03:03:58,080
committee to review this

4159
03:03:58,560 --> 03:04:02,240
Thank you, councelor Patterson. I might

4160
03:04:00,000 --> 03:04:03,680
suggest uh the motion right now is for

4161
03:04:02,240 --> 03:04:05,600
directing, you know, whether this goes

4162
03:04:03,680 --> 03:04:07,920
back to staff for some amendments um and

4163
03:04:05,600 --> 03:04:09,359
a redesign to come back. Um I think at

4164
03:04:07,920 --> 03:04:10,800
the end of that, if this does get

4165
03:04:09,359 --> 03:04:12,319
referred back to staff, I think an

4166
03:04:10,800 --> 03:04:14,720
appropriate motion arising would be to

4167
03:04:12,319 --> 03:04:16,760
also if that's will of council to to to

4168
03:04:14,720 --> 03:04:20,720
include that as part of the the feedback

4169
03:04:16,760 --> 03:04:22,160
loop. Um I don't see any other hands on

4170
03:04:20,720 --> 03:04:24,800
this particular question. So right now

4171
03:04:22,160 --> 03:04:26,560
the motion to amend is as read out to

4172
03:04:24,800 --> 03:04:29,439
direct staff to revise the design of the

4173
03:04:26,560 --> 03:04:31,920
Henderson Trail or Carrick Trail um in

4174
03:04:29,439 --> 03:04:33,840
with those parameters. So if this passes

4175
03:04:31,920 --> 03:04:35,279
the design will be sent back to to staff

4176
03:04:33,840 --> 03:04:37,760
and they will come back with a revised

4177
03:04:35,279 --> 03:04:40,880
design. If it fails then this the design

4178
03:04:37,760 --> 03:04:43,359
remains as is um for them have other

4179
03:04:40,880 --> 03:04:45,760
motions to to amend. I'm going to call

4180
03:04:43,359 --> 03:04:47,920
the question. All those in favor and

4181
03:04:45,760 --> 03:04:50,640
those opposed councelor Patterson

4182
03:04:47,920 --> 03:04:53,399
Braithweight and Green opposed. So, that

4183
03:04:50,640 --> 03:04:56,319
amendment carries.

4184
03:04:53,399 --> 03:04:58,319
Um, go ahead, council briefly. Um, I'd

4185
03:04:56,319 --> 03:05:01,200
like to make a motion that the district

4186
03:04:58,319 --> 03:05:02,960
work with SD61 to address compatibility

4187
03:05:01,200 --> 03:05:04,800
of the Goldsmith parking lot changes to

4188
03:05:02,960 --> 03:05:07,040
align with the planned track entrance

4189
03:05:04,800 --> 03:05:09,520
design and explore future options to

4190
03:05:07,040 --> 03:05:11,279
continue biking path south onto SD61

4191
03:05:09,520 --> 03:05:14,319
property to the crossing at Epworth and

4192
03:05:11,279 --> 03:05:14,319
Cadbury Bay.

4193
03:05:14,680 --> 03:05:19,120
Second, do you wish to speak to it?

4194
03:05:17,600 --> 03:05:22,000
I just think that it's really important

4195
03:05:19,120 --> 03:05:24,479
with the changes to the um track that

4196
03:05:22,000 --> 03:05:26,399
are coming up um that um the district

4197
03:05:24,479 --> 03:05:30,319
does have that conversation with them to

4198
03:05:26,399 --> 03:05:32,640
see what um design plans they have for

4199
03:05:30,319 --> 03:05:35,840
the front of the track in particular um

4200
03:05:32,640 --> 03:05:38,240
as that might um cause some issue with

4201
03:05:35,840 --> 03:05:40,640
um where the biking path is proposed to

4202
03:05:38,240 --> 03:05:42,160
be.

4203
03:05:40,640 --> 03:05:43,520
Thank you. And just for clarification,

4204
03:05:42,160 --> 03:05:45,040
the second part of that is not part of

4205
03:05:43,520 --> 03:05:48,319
this design. That's a future options

4206
03:05:45,040 --> 03:05:50,840
piece. Okay. Thank you. Um, any other

4207
03:05:48,319 --> 03:05:53,200
discussion on

4208
03:05:50,840 --> 03:05:54,399
that? So, I moved and seconded. Right.

4209
03:05:53,200 --> 03:05:57,960
I'll call the question. All those in

4210
03:05:54,399 --> 03:06:01,439
favor? Any opposed? None oppose. That

4211
03:05:57,960 --> 03:06:03,600
carries. Were they all that easy?

4212
03:06:01,439 --> 03:06:05,920
I I'd also I'd also like to make a

4213
03:06:03,600 --> 03:06:07,520
motion that we remove the speed humps

4214
03:06:05,920 --> 03:06:10,800
from the design except we're used to

4215
03:06:07,520 --> 03:06:13,600
reduce cut through traffic.

4216
03:06:10,800 --> 03:06:15,279
Move and seconded. To speak to that? Um,

4217
03:06:13,600 --> 03:06:18,640
yeah. I think that when I look at the

4218
03:06:15,279 --> 03:06:21,920
design with all of these speed humps um

4219
03:06:18,640 --> 03:06:23,920
that are proposed um a lot of them don't

4220
03:06:21,920 --> 03:06:26,160
make a lot of sense to me. Um and I

4221
03:06:23,920 --> 03:06:28,240
think that they um they they would be

4222
03:06:26,160 --> 03:06:30,560
very good on certain roads and I think

4223
03:06:28,240 --> 03:06:33,840
probably Florence and Epworth would be

4224
03:06:30,560 --> 03:06:36,560
places where they they might be good. Um

4225
03:06:33,840 --> 03:06:38,560
and I think in the other um areas like

4226
03:06:36,560 --> 03:06:40,240
on Estavan it doesn't make any sense to

4227
03:06:38,560 --> 03:06:42,640
me at all to have those speed humps

4228
03:06:40,240 --> 03:06:45,840
there. I think that they would actually

4229
03:06:42,640 --> 03:06:48,840
detract from um from the the bikeway

4230
03:06:45,840 --> 03:06:48,840
itself.

4231
03:06:48,960 --> 03:06:54,800
Thank you. Uh councelor Smart then

4232
03:06:51,120 --> 03:06:59,359
Appleton. Yeah. Um uh speaking uh

4233
03:06:54,800 --> 03:07:01,520
against the motion um I'm I'm riding an

4234
03:06:59,359 --> 03:07:03,600
electric bike myself at times. I'm very

4235
03:07:01,520 --> 03:07:06,240
aware of the importance of speed humps

4236
03:07:03,600 --> 03:07:08,479
to slow um bicycles down as as well as

4237
03:07:06,240 --> 03:07:12,080
traffic. I do not want to play traffic

4238
03:07:08,479 --> 03:07:13,600
engineer at this table and Um, I see the

4239
03:07:12,080 --> 03:07:15,680
speed humps as a critical part of this

4240
03:07:13,600 --> 03:07:18,720
design to slow down um, traffic speeds

4241
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:22,880
of both bicycles and cars. Um, so I'm

4242
03:07:18,720 --> 03:07:25,760
not comfortable um, with this motion.

4243
03:07:22,880 --> 03:07:27,520
Thank you, Dr. Appleton. Well, thank you

4244
03:07:25,760 --> 03:07:30,160
your worship. Speaking against the the

4245
03:07:27,520 --> 03:07:32,800
motion on the floor, um, similarly,

4246
03:07:30,160 --> 03:07:36,240
speed humps um, very important for

4247
03:07:32,800 --> 03:07:38,720
neighborhood bikeway traffic calming. Um

4248
03:07:36,240 --> 03:07:40,080
and I've heard very very clearly you

4249
03:07:38,720 --> 03:07:41,600
know through both through this process

4250
03:07:40,080 --> 03:07:43,439
and in the initial discussions around

4251
03:07:41,600 --> 03:07:45,439
some of the other bike lanes folks have

4252
03:07:43,439 --> 03:07:47,520
raised on numerous different occasions

4253
03:07:45,439 --> 03:07:49,520
you know their cons their concerns and

4254
03:07:47,520 --> 03:07:53,040
their interest about how do we achieve

4255
03:07:49,520 --> 03:07:54,800
all ages and abilities uh standards

4256
03:07:53,040 --> 03:07:57,680
without significant level street

4257
03:07:54,800 --> 03:07:59,600
interventions and what I've been what

4258
03:07:57,680 --> 03:08:02,399
the design guidelines and and how we

4259
03:07:59,600 --> 03:08:05,200
achieve that in in a large scale is

4260
03:08:02,399 --> 03:08:08,479
reducing car volumes and reducing our

4261
03:08:05,200 --> 03:08:11,200
speeds. So, speed humps are actually a

4262
03:08:08,479 --> 03:08:14,479
really effective way to lower vehicle

4263
03:08:11,200 --> 03:08:17,279
speeds and get us closer to an all ages

4264
03:08:14,479 --> 03:08:19,439
and abilities cycling network without

4265
03:08:17,279 --> 03:08:21,120
having to do largecale street

4266
03:08:19,439 --> 03:08:22,960
interventions that folks have raised

4267
03:08:21,120 --> 03:08:26,399
concerns about. So, it's really

4268
03:08:22,960 --> 03:08:28,640
important to me that we address try to

4269
03:08:26,399 --> 03:08:30,479
get ourselves as close to that AAA

4270
03:08:28,640 --> 03:08:32,479
standard that council has endorsed as

4271
03:08:30,479 --> 03:08:34,080
possible and we do that by lowering

4272
03:08:32,479 --> 03:08:36,960
vehicle speeds has all kinds of

4273
03:08:34,080 --> 03:08:39,279
ancillary benefits to vehicular traffic

4274
03:08:36,960 --> 03:08:41,200
as well. So, I think that there's a

4275
03:08:39,279 --> 03:08:43,200
great number of benefits in that regard

4276
03:08:41,200 --> 03:08:46,080
and uh I think that the streets that are

4277
03:08:43,200 --> 03:08:48,399
involved in this particular design uh

4278
03:08:46,080 --> 03:08:50,000
can do with that traffic calming. I

4279
03:08:48,399 --> 03:08:52,880
think we've heard repeatedly from the

4280
03:08:50,000 --> 03:08:54,640
public about people about people cutting

4281
03:08:52,880 --> 03:08:56,000
through and people traveling too that

4282
03:08:54,640 --> 03:08:58,560
fast through that corridor. Heard it

4283
03:08:56,000 --> 03:09:00,640
loud and clear. Speed humps are a

4284
03:08:58,560 --> 03:09:02,000
critical element in achieving that

4285
03:09:00,640 --> 03:09:03,439
additional safety and that's for

4286
03:09:02,000 --> 03:09:06,000
everybody that's in and around the road

4287
03:09:03,439 --> 03:09:07,520
space, not just cyclists. So, thank you

4288
03:09:06,000 --> 03:09:08,680
worship.

4289
03:09:07,520 --> 03:09:12,160
Councelor

4290
03:09:08,680 --> 03:09:13,760
Appleton, other speakers? Chanc Watson.

4291
03:09:12,160 --> 03:09:15,040
Thank you. Just to add, I will not be

4292
03:09:13,760 --> 03:09:17,840
supporting the motion either. I think

4293
03:09:15,040 --> 03:09:20,720
that the plan that includes the speed

4294
03:09:17,840 --> 03:09:22,720
bumps humps is an integrated plan and so

4295
03:09:20,720 --> 03:09:24,080
those speed humps play a role in the

4296
03:09:22,720 --> 03:09:27,439
section of the road where they've been

4297
03:09:24,080 --> 03:09:30,800
designed and uh and included. So um I

4298
03:09:27,439 --> 03:09:33,760
think it's uh we we can't be um we can't

4299
03:09:30,800 --> 03:09:35,680
be um designing this ourselves because

4300
03:09:33,760 --> 03:09:37,680
we don't have the experience to do that

4301
03:09:35,680 --> 03:09:40,720
and know how the pieces fit together and

4302
03:09:37,680 --> 03:09:44,720
and actually modify behavior. So I don't

4303
03:09:40,720 --> 03:09:47,520
want to start um redesigning this oursel

4304
03:09:44,720 --> 03:09:49,600
by taking something out that clearly the

4305
03:09:47,520 --> 03:09:51,279
design engineers feel are necessary to

4306
03:09:49,600 --> 03:09:54,160
create the effects we're looking for

4307
03:09:51,279 --> 03:09:55,600
which is commerce streets.

4308
03:09:54,160 --> 03:09:58,160
Thank you councelor Green. And then I'm

4309
03:09:55,600 --> 03:10:00,399
going to get a motion to extend.

4310
03:09:58,160 --> 03:10:03,279
I I I will support the motion. I think

4311
03:10:00,399 --> 03:10:05,520
that speed humps are good and bad. Um

4312
03:10:03,279 --> 03:10:07,439
they I' I've watched in Sanage and I've

4313
03:10:05,520 --> 03:10:09,840
driven through Sanage a lot. people

4314
03:10:07,439 --> 03:10:12,880
speed between the bumps and bounce over

4315
03:10:09,840 --> 03:10:15,200
the top. So, I think really um where we

4316
03:10:12,880 --> 03:10:18,160
can minimize speed humps and encourage

4317
03:10:15,200 --> 03:10:20,080
lower speed limits and and and better uh

4318
03:10:18,160 --> 03:10:21,359
safety that that would be preferable.

4319
03:10:20,080 --> 03:10:23,840
Thank you. So, I will support the

4320
03:10:21,359 --> 03:10:26,560
motion.

4321
03:10:23,840 --> 03:10:28,880
Thank you, Council Patterson.

4322
03:10:26,560 --> 03:10:31,520
Yeah, I will I will support the motion.

4323
03:10:28,880 --> 03:10:33,520
I and I'm not I agree with Councelor

4324
03:10:31,520 --> 03:10:37,279
Watson. We're not um transportation

4325
03:10:33,520 --> 03:10:41,120
engineers. uh and the goal is to to

4326
03:10:37,279 --> 03:10:43,680
reduce um speed. However, I don't I

4327
03:10:41,120 --> 03:10:46,000
don't know that the the speed humps do

4328
03:10:43,680 --> 03:10:49,760
it because as councelor Green has said,

4329
03:10:46,000 --> 03:10:51,680
what happens is uh the cars do speed up

4330
03:10:49,760 --> 03:10:55,200
as soon as they're over them. But more

4331
03:10:51,680 --> 03:10:56,880
importantly, they quickly also learn

4332
03:10:55,200 --> 03:11:01,200
what streets they're on and what streets

4333
03:10:56,880 --> 03:11:04,720
they're not on. And so the um the in in

4334
03:11:01,200 --> 03:11:07,840
fact can just divert the problem to to a

4335
03:11:04,720 --> 03:11:10,319
neighboring street. And so um I'll

4336
03:11:07,840 --> 03:11:12,920
support the motion as presented um and

4337
03:11:10,319 --> 03:11:15,760
see what comes back in the

4338
03:11:12,920 --> 03:11:16,800
design. Uh thank you. Uh can I get a

4339
03:11:15,760 --> 03:11:18,720
motion to extend the meeting? We're

4340
03:11:16,800 --> 03:11:20,760
going to probably need to at least 10

4341
03:11:18,720 --> 03:11:23,439
say 10:45 is probably a reasonable

4342
03:11:20,760 --> 03:11:26,319
expectation. Moved and seconded. All

4343
03:11:23,439 --> 03:11:29,120
those in favor?

4344
03:11:26,319 --> 03:11:30,880
Any opposed?

4345
03:11:29,120 --> 03:11:33,680
All right, we'll keep it to 10:45 at all

4346
03:11:30,880 --> 03:11:35,040
costs. How's that? Um, all right. I'll

4347
03:11:33,680 --> 03:11:38,560
speak briefly to the motion that's on

4348
03:11:35,040 --> 03:11:41,040
the floor then. Um, and um, so I'm I'm

4349
03:11:38,560 --> 03:11:42,240
in I'm supportive of this. I think, you

4350
03:11:41,040 --> 03:11:44,080
know, I think the wording here where

4351
03:11:42,240 --> 03:11:46,160
it's carefully it's not banning them,

4352
03:11:44,080 --> 03:11:49,040
but just using them really carefully

4353
03:11:46,160 --> 03:11:50,319
where to use them to to uh to reduce cut

4354
03:11:49,040 --> 03:11:52,800
through traffic. That's where they're

4355
03:11:50,319 --> 03:11:54,560
most effective. Um they're also the

4356
03:11:52,800 --> 03:11:56,240
easiest to my mind to add in if we're

4357
03:11:54,560 --> 03:11:58,479
seeing that other traffic calming issues

4358
03:11:56,240 --> 03:12:01,200
aren't in place. And for those who've

4359
03:11:58,479 --> 03:12:02,880
gone through the report in detail, they

4360
03:12:01,200 --> 03:12:06,800
um they're substantially used on the

4361
03:12:02,880 --> 03:12:08,560
Henderson uh part north of of Newton um

4362
03:12:06,800 --> 03:12:09,920
where there is a uh there's already

4363
03:12:08,560 --> 03:12:12,319
there one of the other additions is in

4364
03:12:09,920 --> 03:12:14,160
there is a multiple new uh stop signs

4365
03:12:12,319 --> 03:12:16,319
that prevents through. So there's

4366
03:12:14,160 --> 03:12:18,640
there's multiple stops on that route

4367
03:12:16,319 --> 03:12:20,880
down that I think should meet it. And as

4368
03:12:18,640 --> 03:12:23,200
someone who doesn't ride an ebike, uh,

4369
03:12:20,880 --> 03:12:24,720
but rides up hills, I even with a a

4370
03:12:23,200 --> 03:12:27,840
carving in the middle, those things are

4371
03:12:24,720 --> 03:12:29,760
are not necessarily um attractive for

4372
03:12:27,840 --> 03:12:31,359
cyclists or for some of the newer things

4373
03:12:29,760 --> 03:12:33,040
with the fatter wheeled bicycles or the

4374
03:12:31,359 --> 03:12:35,040
or the hoverboards and other things or

4375
03:12:33,040 --> 03:12:36,640
scooters. So I think this just at this

4376
03:12:35,040 --> 03:12:38,720
point that's seems the easiest one that

4377
03:12:36,640 --> 03:12:40,240
we can try and if we're seeing that it's

4378
03:12:38,720 --> 03:12:42,399
not achieving the goals, then we can

4379
03:12:40,240 --> 03:12:44,160
easily add them in again. Um, so I'm

4380
03:12:42,399 --> 03:12:45,600
supportive of that approach. Um, but I

4381
03:12:44,160 --> 03:12:47,279
don't want to ban them from the design.

4382
03:12:45,600 --> 03:12:48,880
I just think that we should minimize

4383
03:12:47,279 --> 03:12:50,319
them where possible. I want to tell one

4384
03:12:48,880 --> 03:12:52,560
quick anecdote on that as well and that

4385
03:12:50,319 --> 03:12:55,600
is we actually historically I think

4386
03:12:52,560 --> 03:12:58,479
about 25 years ago or so they put speed

4387
03:12:55,600 --> 03:13:00,240
bumps on Estan as a test to try and slow

4388
03:12:58,479 --> 03:13:01,920
people down and they found that it

4389
03:13:00,240 --> 03:13:03,120
attracted motorcycle clubs coming down

4390
03:13:01,920 --> 03:13:04,720
and trying to get as much air as they

4391
03:13:03,120 --> 03:13:06,560
could off of them which wasn't

4392
03:13:04,720 --> 03:13:08,160
necessarily the intended outcome of the

4393
03:13:06,560 --> 03:13:09,920
of the design. Not that that would

4394
03:13:08,160 --> 03:13:11,279
necessarily happen again but uh they're

4395
03:13:09,920 --> 03:13:12,800
not always affect they don't always have

4396
03:13:11,279 --> 03:13:14,080
the intended outcome. Uh, sorry,

4397
03:13:12,800 --> 03:13:16,399
council. I'm going to second time

4398
03:13:14,080 --> 03:13:17,439
speakers here. Councelor Smart, I'd just

4399
03:13:16,399 --> 03:13:22,720
like to make an amendment to the

4400
03:13:17,439 --> 03:13:25,680
amendment. Sure. Um, uh, and where, um,

4401
03:13:22,720 --> 03:13:27,439
speed humps are removed and traffic

4402
03:13:25,680 --> 03:13:30,239
speeds are anticipated to be greater

4403
03:13:27,439 --> 03:13:33,680
than 30 km an hour, alternate traffic

4404
03:13:30,239 --> 03:13:35,080
calming measures are proposed.

4405
03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:37,920
Can you say that

4406
03:13:35,080 --> 03:13:40,479
again? where speed humps are removed

4407
03:13:37,920 --> 03:13:43,279
from the design and where traffic speeds

4408
03:13:40,479 --> 03:13:45,040
are expected to exceed 30 kilometers an

4409
03:13:43,279 --> 03:13:48,560
hour that alternate trafficcoming

4410
03:13:45,040 --> 03:13:52,960
measures are provided.

4411
03:13:48,560 --> 03:13:55,040
Movement seconded. Go ahead. Um I just I

4412
03:13:52,960 --> 03:13:57,120
would not be able to sleep at night um

4413
03:13:55,040 --> 03:13:59,279
if we are providing and encouraging

4414
03:13:57,120 --> 03:14:01,040
people to cycle on a bikeway route and

4415
03:13:59,279 --> 03:14:03,600
have not provided adequate traffic

4416
03:14:01,040 --> 03:14:05,760
calming. When we use a shar approach, we

4417
03:14:03,600 --> 03:14:09,600
must make sure that the traffic speeds

4418
03:14:05,760 --> 03:14:11,040
and the traffic counts are meeting um

4419
03:14:09,600 --> 03:14:12,880
safe requirements. Otherwise, it's

4420
03:14:11,040 --> 03:14:15,279
unethical for us to be designing a

4421
03:14:12,880 --> 03:14:19,040
bikeway and putting people in harm's

4422
03:14:15,279 --> 03:14:20,640
way. Thank you.

4423
03:14:19,040 --> 03:14:23,279
Other speakers. Go ahead, Watson. And

4424
03:14:20,640 --> 03:14:25,760
then Appleton. I I think Mr. Appleton

4425
03:14:23,279 --> 03:14:27,600
was ahead of me. Way. Go ahead,

4426
03:14:25,760 --> 03:14:29,520
Councelor Appleton. Thank you, your

4427
03:14:27,600 --> 03:14:30,800
worship. Yeah. So, in speaking in favor

4428
03:14:29,520 --> 03:14:32,880
of the amendment, because I really think

4429
03:14:30,800 --> 03:14:34,880
we need to if if the speed hump approach

4430
03:14:32,880 --> 03:14:36,640
is not the favored one, then I really

4431
03:14:34,880 --> 03:14:38,640
think we need to do we do need to look

4432
03:14:36,640 --> 03:14:40,720
at other types of interventions to

4433
03:14:38,640 --> 03:14:42,399
achieve that that safety outcome that

4434
03:14:40,720 --> 03:14:44,960
everybody wants to see happen. And this

4435
03:14:42,399 --> 03:14:46,880
is again not just for cyclists who will

4436
03:14:44,960 --> 03:14:49,680
be using the neighborhood bikeway, which

4437
03:14:46,880 --> 03:14:52,080
is what we're designing here. Um, but

4438
03:14:49,680 --> 03:14:55,200
also for all road users, like I would

4439
03:14:52,080 --> 03:14:57,359
really like to see road speeds on these

4440
03:14:55,200 --> 03:14:58,960
neighborhood roads come down. we have

4441
03:14:57,359 --> 03:15:00,479
the ability through the implementation

4442
03:14:58,960 --> 03:15:02,880
of this bike way to create

4443
03:15:00,479 --> 03:15:05,279
infrastructure that can lower vehicle

4444
03:15:02,880 --> 03:15:06,319
speeds and that's just a benefit for

4445
03:15:05,279 --> 03:15:09,359
everybody that lives in that

4446
03:15:06,319 --> 03:15:10,720
neighborhood. So, however we do it, if

4447
03:15:09,359 --> 03:15:12,800
speed humps are not the preferred

4448
03:15:10,720 --> 03:15:14,880
option, um then I would really like to

4449
03:15:12,800 --> 03:15:16,319
see us use a different tool so that we

4450
03:15:14,880 --> 03:15:17,840
can achieve that achieve that safe

4451
03:15:16,319 --> 03:15:19,279
outcome that everybody wants. And that's

4452
03:15:17,840 --> 03:15:21,040
what really everybody's talking about.

4453
03:15:19,279 --> 03:15:22,880
So many of the neighbors that that spoke

4454
03:15:21,040 --> 03:15:25,040
to me talked about the speed of traffic

4455
03:15:22,880 --> 03:15:27,840
and talked about how unpredictable the

4456
03:15:25,040 --> 03:15:29,279
traffic was. Uh, and I would just really

4457
03:15:27,840 --> 03:15:32,080
like to see us address this through

4458
03:15:29,279 --> 03:15:34,479
this. So, this is not exclusively

4459
03:15:32,080 --> 03:15:36,560
uh a bikeway or a bike improvement

4460
03:15:34,479 --> 03:15:38,000
project, but I I see it as a

4461
03:15:36,560 --> 03:15:39,200
neighborhood safety project and

4462
03:15:38,000 --> 03:15:41,120
responding to what the community is

4463
03:15:39,200 --> 03:15:42,479
telling us. So, if we don't use speed

4464
03:15:41,120 --> 03:15:45,760
homes, I'd like to see us use something

4465
03:15:42,479 --> 03:15:48,000
else. Thank you, Worship.

4466
03:15:45,760 --> 03:15:50,640
Watson. Thank you. I won't be supporting

4467
03:15:48,000 --> 03:15:53,279
the motion or the motion as amended. Um

4468
03:15:50,640 --> 03:15:55,120
I think that um what we've heard and

4469
03:15:53,279 --> 03:15:58,160
people comment about it all the time is

4470
03:15:55,120 --> 03:16:01,520
that um some cars speed and if you have

4471
03:15:58,160 --> 03:16:03,520
a speed hump their their motion through

4472
03:16:01,520 --> 03:16:05,040
the area because of the physical

4473
03:16:03,520 --> 03:16:07,920
limitations the constraints of the

4474
03:16:05,040 --> 03:16:10,080
roadway must change their behavior.

4475
03:16:07,920 --> 03:16:13,120
Dropping speed limits by putting up 30

4476
03:16:10,080 --> 03:16:16,960
km an hour signs alone do not have that

4477
03:16:13,120 --> 03:16:19,279
effect. And I think it is um too late in

4478
03:16:16,960 --> 03:16:22,080
the day to us to be thinking about

4479
03:16:19,279 --> 03:16:25,359
basically significant redesigns to to

4480
03:16:22,080 --> 03:16:27,279
portions of this route uh if we if we um

4481
03:16:25,359 --> 03:16:29,520
remove speed humps. So while I

4482
03:16:27,279 --> 03:16:31,520
understand the intent of the the

4483
03:16:29,520 --> 03:16:32,960
amendment, I I I just don't think that's

4484
03:16:31,520 --> 03:16:35,279
the way to go right now. We're trying to

4485
03:16:32,960 --> 03:16:38,399
move forward an active transportation

4486
03:16:35,279 --> 03:16:41,200
neighborhood bikeway where speed humps

4487
03:16:38,399 --> 03:16:43,560
will provide the calming that we're

4488
03:16:41,200 --> 03:16:46,319
looking for to create this as a shared

4489
03:16:43,560 --> 03:16:48,720
roadway. So I am not in favor of the

4490
03:16:46,319 --> 03:16:50,560
motion or the amendment. Thank you

4491
03:16:48,720 --> 03:16:53,279
councelor Watson. Anybody else wish to

4492
03:16:50,560 --> 03:16:54,720
speak on the amendment?

4493
03:16:53,279 --> 03:16:56,800
I'll just I'll speak briefly and then

4494
03:16:54,720 --> 03:16:59,120
I'll go to second time speaker. Just I'm

4495
03:16:56,800 --> 03:17:01,200
I I really appreciate the intent of this

4496
03:16:59,120 --> 03:17:03,279
um motion. I think it's asking for a

4497
03:17:01,200 --> 03:17:05,359
significant relook at at multiple other

4498
03:17:03,279 --> 03:17:08,080
pieces. I think a motion I would be

4499
03:17:05,359 --> 03:17:10,720
supportive of is to uh to track the

4500
03:17:08,080 --> 03:17:13,200
speed of these areas and to consider

4501
03:17:10,720 --> 03:17:14,479
again I I don't have a I don't

4502
03:17:13,200 --> 03:17:15,680
personally like speed humps that much,

4503
03:17:14,479 --> 03:17:16,880
but if they're the if they're the best

4504
03:17:15,680 --> 03:17:18,960
approach, I don't want to take it off

4505
03:17:16,880 --> 03:17:20,720
the table, but I would much rather us

4506
03:17:18,960 --> 03:17:22,399
try the implementation as is. If we're

4507
03:17:20,720 --> 03:17:25,120
seeing that the speeding is occurring,

4508
03:17:22,399 --> 03:17:26,640
then add those in. Uh I think asking

4509
03:17:25,120 --> 03:17:28,479
essentially for well let's do something

4510
03:17:26,640 --> 03:17:30,319
else before we've had a chance to see if

4511
03:17:28,479 --> 03:17:31,840
they're the best option possible isn't

4512
03:17:30,319 --> 03:17:32,960
isn't my preferred approach. So I have a

4513
03:17:31,840 --> 03:17:35,359
hard time supporting a motion as it's

4514
03:17:32,960 --> 03:17:37,120
made. Go ahead councelor Smart. Oh thank

4515
03:17:35,359 --> 03:17:39,279
you three. Is it possible just to ask a

4516
03:17:37,120 --> 03:17:41,279
question of staff as to whether the um

4517
03:17:39,279 --> 03:17:42,960
current speeds and traffic counts were

4518
03:17:41,279 --> 03:17:45,279
taken into consideration with the design

4519
03:17:42,960 --> 03:17:48,080
of the speed humps? Yeah, you can always

4520
03:17:45,279 --> 03:17:49,600
ask that question. Uh Mr. Renick. Uh

4521
03:17:48,080 --> 03:17:51,600
thank you very much through the chair.

4522
03:17:49,600 --> 03:17:55,040
Yes, vehicle speed and volume counts

4523
03:17:51,600 --> 03:17:57,760
were conducted to support uh this design

4524
03:17:55,040 --> 03:17:59,200
and uh speed humps are one of the

4525
03:17:57,760 --> 03:18:00,720
recommended tools in the active

4526
03:17:59,200 --> 03:18:04,680
transportation design guide, but they

4527
03:18:00,720 --> 03:18:04,680
are not the only tool.

4528
03:18:05,359 --> 03:18:10,239
Thank you. Um yes, so I just wanted to

4529
03:18:06,960 --> 03:18:12,560
expand upon um my amendment. Um, I like

4530
03:18:10,239 --> 03:18:14,560
while it potentially could include

4531
03:18:12,560 --> 03:18:16,000
signage to low to lower speeds, I was

4532
03:18:14,560 --> 03:18:18,080
thinking of it more strategically

4533
03:18:16,000 --> 03:18:20,239
around. There's other ways of traffic

4534
03:18:18,080 --> 03:18:21,600
calming in certain situations. Um,

4535
03:18:20,239 --> 03:18:23,920
sometimes they involve like little

4536
03:18:21,600 --> 03:18:25,439
concrete islands with signs in order to

4537
03:18:23,920 --> 03:18:28,319
um narrow the feeling of the road.

4538
03:18:25,439 --> 03:18:31,439
There's other approaches um uh as we've

4539
03:18:28,319 --> 03:18:33,040
just heard from engineering um that the

4540
03:18:31,439 --> 03:18:35,120
best practices often include speed

4541
03:18:33,040 --> 03:18:37,120
humps, but there are other strategies

4542
03:18:35,120 --> 03:18:39,920
out there. I want to make sure that we

4543
03:18:37,120 --> 03:18:42,720
leave the consultant with the option to

4544
03:18:39,920 --> 03:18:44,960
come back to us and flag the fact that

4545
03:18:42,720 --> 03:18:46,479
may you know maybe it isn't a good idea

4546
03:18:44,960 --> 03:18:49,080
to remove these speed humps. I don't

4547
03:18:46,479 --> 03:18:51,120
feel like the motion as it stands

4548
03:18:49,080 --> 03:18:54,560
unmended really allows for the

4549
03:18:51,120 --> 03:18:58,239
consultant to to object to what I see as

4550
03:18:54,560 --> 03:19:00,399
an operational um uh and traffic

4551
03:18:58,239 --> 03:19:01,760
engineering um design motion from

4552
03:19:00,399 --> 03:19:03,520
council which makes me extremely

4553
03:19:01,760 --> 03:19:06,000
uncomfortable.

4554
03:19:03,520 --> 03:19:09,359
Thank you, councelor Smart. Councelor

4555
03:19:06,000 --> 03:19:12,239
Patterson. Yes. Uh quite interesting

4556
03:19:09,359 --> 03:19:14,960
conversation about traffic calming and

4557
03:19:12,239 --> 03:19:17,680
uh but I I will speak just from my

4558
03:19:14,960 --> 03:19:19,920
experience as a pedestrian

4559
03:19:17,680 --> 03:19:21,760
um extensively throughout the district

4560
03:19:19,920 --> 03:19:23,840
where there are speed humps and where

4561
03:19:21,760 --> 03:19:25,920
they're used too widely. Uh my

4562
03:19:23,840 --> 03:19:29,439
experience has been that it that

4563
03:19:25,920 --> 03:19:32,000
actually um encourages the cyclists to

4564
03:19:29,439 --> 03:19:35,880
use the sidewalks instead of the roads.

4565
03:19:32,000 --> 03:19:38,720
So, um uh it

4566
03:19:35,880 --> 03:19:42,800
it's they don't necessarily work to

4567
03:19:38,720 --> 03:19:45,359
reduce the um the vehicle traffic on the

4568
03:19:42,800 --> 03:19:48,080
streets as effectively as we would want.

4569
03:19:45,359 --> 03:19:51,279
I would rather see different um uh

4570
03:19:48,080 --> 03:19:53,399
methodologies used to uh to have traffic

4571
03:19:51,279 --> 03:19:55,920
calming, but

4572
03:19:53,399 --> 03:19:58,080
um it it certainly has been my

4573
03:19:55,920 --> 03:20:01,439
experience that cyclists don't like the

4574
03:19:58,080 --> 03:20:03,359
speed humps either. And so, uh, yes, I

4575
03:20:01,439 --> 03:20:05,840
know that you can create narrow channels

4576
03:20:03,359 --> 03:20:08,560
and they can go through them, but, um,

4577
03:20:05,840 --> 03:20:12,000
many of the particularly young cyclists

4578
03:20:08,560 --> 03:20:13,520
or those now on ebikes just, um, go up

4579
03:20:12,000 --> 03:20:15,920
onto the sidewalk and travel the

4580
03:20:13,520 --> 03:20:17,920
sidewalks instead.

4581
03:20:15,920 --> 03:20:20,560
Okay, we have the motion, the amendment

4582
03:20:17,920 --> 03:20:22,760
motion right now, which is to if, uh,

4583
03:20:20,560 --> 03:20:25,200
and to look at other uh, calming

4584
03:20:22,760 --> 03:20:27,120
measures. So, this is a this is a call

4585
03:20:25,200 --> 03:20:27,960
on the amendment. All those in favor of

4586
03:20:27,120 --> 03:20:30,640
the

4587
03:20:27,960 --> 03:20:34,239
amendment and those opposed. I have

4588
03:20:30,640 --> 03:20:36,239
Green, Watson, myself, Braithweight, and

4589
03:20:34,239 --> 03:20:38,160
Patterson. I see your hand up. Opposed.

4590
03:20:36,239 --> 03:20:40,920
Okay, that the amendment motion fails,

4591
03:20:38,160 --> 03:20:44,880
but we're back to the main motion.

4592
03:20:40,920 --> 03:20:47,840
Um, I might again uh I'll leave that

4593
03:20:44,880 --> 03:20:51,200
there for now. So, back to the main me

4594
03:20:47,840 --> 03:20:53,520
that one amendment motion, which is uh

4595
03:20:51,200 --> 03:20:55,200
at least consider most speed humps, but

4596
03:20:53,520 --> 03:20:58,399
not all to be removed. So that's a

4597
03:20:55,200 --> 03:21:00,560
motion on the floor. All those in favor

4598
03:20:58,399 --> 03:21:03,439
and those opposed. I have councelor

4599
03:21:00,560 --> 03:21:07,120
Smart, Watson, and Appleton opposed.

4600
03:21:03,439 --> 03:21:09,080
That does carry. Um any other motions

4601
03:21:07,120 --> 03:21:12,080
here that people wish to see move

4602
03:21:09,080 --> 03:21:13,680
forward? Council Green.

4603
03:21:12,080 --> 03:21:17,120
One of the motions that I I've been

4604
03:21:13,680 --> 03:21:20,239
contemplating um is as we send all of

4605
03:21:17,120 --> 03:21:22,920
this back to staff to look at and and

4606
03:21:20,239 --> 03:21:25,399
potentially revise

4607
03:21:22,920 --> 03:21:27,760
um neighbors have talked a lot about

4608
03:21:25,399 --> 03:21:29,920
collaboration with neighborhood w with

4609
03:21:27,760 --> 03:21:32,439
the neighborhood most impacted and I'm

4610
03:21:29,920 --> 03:21:35,359
wondering if if that requires a motion

4611
03:21:32,439 --> 03:21:38,239
to encourage collaboration wherever

4612
03:21:35,359 --> 03:21:39,760
possible on these projects uh while

4613
03:21:38,239 --> 03:21:40,960
they're under revision. I think that

4614
03:21:39,760 --> 03:21:42,479
would be a really important step

4615
03:21:40,960 --> 03:21:44,640
forward. It would also be consistent

4616
03:21:42,479 --> 03:21:47,279
with what we learned in a a community

4617
03:21:44,640 --> 03:21:48,880
engagement workshop a few weeks ago. I'm

4618
03:21:47,279 --> 03:21:50,720
going to suggest procedurally that'd be

4619
03:21:48,880 --> 03:21:52,319
best done again as a motion arising at

4620
03:21:50,720 --> 03:21:54,000
the end of the meeting. Okay. I'll do it

4621
03:21:52,319 --> 03:21:56,239
I'll do it as a motion arising. Thank

4622
03:21:54,000 --> 03:21:58,960
you. Thank you.

4623
03:21:56,239 --> 03:22:01,120
Right. Councelor Patterson. Yes. I would

4624
03:21:58,960 --> 03:22:02,720
like to move uh number one on here.

4625
03:22:01,120 --> 03:22:04,880
Review the intersection design at the

4626
03:22:02,720 --> 03:22:06,560
corner of Cadboro Bay and Estavan to

4627
03:22:04,880 --> 03:22:10,680
ensure the needs of commercial and

4628
03:22:06,560 --> 03:22:10,680
pedestrian traffic are met.

4629
03:22:10,960 --> 03:22:15,200
The motion thing is off. Motion moves

4630
03:22:12,319 --> 03:22:17,200
and seconded. Um do you wish first of

4631
03:22:15,200 --> 03:22:18,720
all see if anybody wishes to debate

4632
03:22:17,200 --> 03:22:21,720
that. If not I won't ask you to

4633
03:22:18,720 --> 03:22:21,720
motivate.

4634
03:22:21,840 --> 03:22:26,000
Yeah. So go ahead councelor Patterson

4635
03:22:23,359 --> 03:22:29,760
and then go to councelor Smart. Yes.

4636
03:22:26,000 --> 03:22:32,560
Thank you mayor. And um I the the plans

4637
03:22:29,760 --> 03:22:35,600
that were presented do of course um show

4638
03:22:32,560 --> 03:22:38,279
the the cycling crossing at that corner.

4639
03:22:35,600 --> 03:22:42,239
they are uh they do not have any

4640
03:22:38,279 --> 03:22:46,720
clarifications on the the loading areas

4641
03:22:42,239 --> 03:22:50,399
in in uh that are located there now. And

4642
03:22:46,720 --> 03:22:52,880
I think that it is it's important as we

4643
03:22:50,399 --> 03:22:54,720
look at this that we also consider the

4644
03:22:52,880 --> 03:22:58,160
needs of the commercial areas that are

4645
03:22:54,720 --> 03:23:01,479
also vital to the um to the community.

4646
03:22:58,160 --> 03:23:04,640
And uh that we we don't just push them

4647
03:23:01,479 --> 03:23:08,800
aside or ignore them in any way, but we

4648
03:23:04,640 --> 03:23:11,279
actually um engage and actively state

4649
03:23:08,800 --> 03:23:14,319
what the intent is, how it will be meet

4650
03:23:11,279 --> 03:23:17,840
the needs of the commercial district and

4651
03:23:14,319 --> 03:23:20,880
um offer the the commercial tenants in

4652
03:23:17,840 --> 03:23:25,600
the area um something that they can

4653
03:23:20,880 --> 03:23:27,359
actually speak to and um uh share their

4654
03:23:25,600 --> 03:23:29,120
comments with us because right now there

4655
03:23:27,359 --> 03:23:32,160
is nothing on the design work for them

4656
03:23:29,120 --> 03:23:35,880
to look at.

4657
03:23:32,160 --> 03:23:35,880
Thank you, Councelor Smart.

4658
03:23:35,920 --> 03:23:41,040
Um, thank you. Um, I I will vote in

4659
03:23:38,399 --> 03:23:42,720
favor of the um motion. I just um

4660
03:23:41,040 --> 03:23:44,239
appreciate having a little bit more

4661
03:23:42,720 --> 03:23:45,920
explanation there because it is sort of

4662
03:23:44,239 --> 03:23:48,880
such a light touch at that corner. I

4663
03:23:45,920 --> 03:23:51,359
didn't see um the concerns, but I I

4664
03:23:48,880 --> 03:23:53,040
appreciate what has been said and I'm um

4665
03:23:51,359 --> 03:23:56,040
supportive of the communication piece

4666
03:23:53,040 --> 03:23:56,040
there.

4667
03:23:56,560 --> 03:24:01,359
Well, thank you, worship, uh through

4668
03:23:58,000 --> 03:24:03,279
your question for staff. Uh I just

4669
03:24:01,359 --> 03:24:05,359
looking for confirmation that there is

4670
03:24:03,279 --> 03:24:07,680
an established loading zone there, the

4671
03:24:05,359 --> 03:24:09,200
council itself itself established uh

4672
03:24:07,680 --> 03:24:13,120
there next to the old farm market. And

4673
03:24:09,200 --> 03:24:16,720
so was the existence of the loading zone

4674
03:24:13,120 --> 03:24:19,760
factored into the design?

4675
03:24:16,720 --> 03:24:21,520
Mr. Renick, uh through the mayor, no

4676
03:24:19,760 --> 03:24:26,560
changes are proposed to that loading

4677
03:24:21,520 --> 03:24:27,640
zone uh as a result of this design.

4678
03:24:26,560 --> 03:24:31,160
Thank

4679
03:24:27,640 --> 03:24:33,680
you. Anything else? Any other

4680
03:24:31,160 --> 03:24:35,120
comments? I'll just speak briefly. I

4681
03:24:33,680 --> 03:24:36,560
this may be one of those ones that

4682
03:24:35,120 --> 03:24:38,000
doesn't result in any changes at all,

4683
03:24:36,560 --> 03:24:39,760
but I think it's just important to make

4684
03:24:38,000 --> 03:24:41,760
sure that there's any anything there

4685
03:24:39,760 --> 03:24:43,760
that has been missed or looked at then

4686
03:24:41,760 --> 03:24:45,479
we we should consider it. So certainly a

4687
03:24:43,760 --> 03:24:47,840
critical part for that that commercial

4688
03:24:45,479 --> 03:24:49,399
area. Um seeing no other hands, I'll

4689
03:24:47,840 --> 03:24:53,760
call the question. All those in

4690
03:24:49,399 --> 03:24:55,840
favor? Any opposed? Opposed?

4691
03:24:53,760 --> 03:24:59,359
Go ahead, Councman. Uh, thanks. I'd like

4692
03:24:55,840 --> 03:25:01,680
to um move that uh we revise the design

4693
03:24:59,359 --> 03:25:03,359
of Eastbound Road, the Easttown Halane

4694
03:25:01,680 --> 03:25:05,840
intersection, and Florence Epworth and

4695
03:25:03,359 --> 03:25:08,640
Hala streets to reduce cut through

4696
03:25:05,840 --> 03:25:11,359
traffic onto Hala, enhance pedestrian

4697
03:25:08,640 --> 03:25:13,920
crossing safety, reduce conflict between

4698
03:25:11,359 --> 03:25:16,080
southbound, east on eastbound vehicle

4699
03:25:13,920 --> 03:25:18,560
traffic and eastbound bicycle on a

4700
03:25:16,080 --> 03:25:20,640
haltane at the intersection, and reduce

4701
03:25:18,560 --> 03:25:24,560
parking losses.

4702
03:25:20,640 --> 03:25:26,880
second move and seconded. Uh you can

4703
03:25:24,560 --> 03:25:28,560
speak to it if you wish. Uh sure. I

4704
03:25:26,880 --> 03:25:30,960
think that this is really important. I

4705
03:25:28,560 --> 03:25:34,000
mean this is obviously um where we've

4706
03:25:30,960 --> 03:25:35,600
heard so much from our residents. Um we

4707
03:25:34,000 --> 03:25:38,319
heard loud and clear from our residents

4708
03:25:35,600 --> 03:25:40,640
what what um their their feelings were

4709
03:25:38,319 --> 03:25:43,040
around this particular area. And I think

4710
03:25:40,640 --> 03:25:45,680
that um they did come up with some some

4711
03:25:43,040 --> 03:25:48,399
good um information for us to take into

4712
03:25:45,680 --> 03:25:51,279
consideration. I also think that uh uh

4713
03:25:48,399 --> 03:25:54,080
we we perhaps didn't take into account

4714
03:25:51,279 --> 03:25:55,600
the um amount of construction that will

4715
03:25:54,080 --> 03:25:57,840
be going on around there and the

4716
03:25:55,600 --> 03:25:59,920
increase in densification and how that

4717
03:25:57,840 --> 03:26:02,640
might affect this design. So I would

4718
03:25:59,920 --> 03:26:04,960
really like to see us um look at and

4719
03:26:02,640 --> 03:26:07,680
look at this and perhaps revise that

4720
03:26:04,960 --> 03:26:09,840
design to encompass those things. Thank

4721
03:26:07,680 --> 03:26:12,560
you,

4722
03:26:09,840 --> 03:26:15,760
Councelor Smart. Then go ahead,

4723
03:26:12,560 --> 03:26:17,760
councelor Smart. Uh thank you. Um I'm in

4724
03:26:15,760 --> 03:26:19,439
in favor of almost all of this motion.

4725
03:26:17,760 --> 03:26:21,600
So I would like to um propose an

4726
03:26:19,439 --> 03:26:24,399
amendment to the amendment. Um and that

4727
03:26:21,600 --> 03:26:26,880
would be um for the last point reduce

4728
03:26:24,399 --> 03:26:28,960
parking losses to read reduce parking

4729
03:26:26,880 --> 03:26:30,720
losses if safe conditions for

4730
03:26:28,960 --> 03:26:33,720
pedestrians and cyclists can be

4731
03:26:30,720 --> 03:26:33,720
maintained.

4732
03:26:34,640 --> 03:26:39,439
Moved and seconded. Sure. Go ahead.

4733
03:26:37,600 --> 03:26:41,760
Thank you. I just want to um make sure

4734
03:26:39,439 --> 03:26:44,960
that we're again not playing traffic

4735
03:26:41,760 --> 03:26:47,200
engineer and um potentially um

4736
03:26:44,960 --> 03:26:49,920
encouraging parking spots to be removed

4737
03:26:47,200 --> 03:26:52,319
and therefore um creating situations

4738
03:26:49,920 --> 03:26:57,279
where there are not sight lines between

4739
03:26:52,319 --> 03:26:59,120
motorists and cyclists and pedestrians.

4740
03:26:57,279 --> 03:27:00,160
Thank you. Go ahead, councelor Appleton

4741
03:26:59,120 --> 03:27:01,520
and then I'm going to ask a quick

4742
03:27:00,160 --> 03:27:02,880
question of staff before I go to the

4743
03:27:01,520 --> 03:27:04,800
next speaker. Go ahead. Thank you,

4744
03:27:02,880 --> 03:27:06,960
worship. Yeah, and we heard really and

4745
03:27:04,800 --> 03:27:09,840
so definitely in favor of this amendment

4746
03:27:06,960 --> 03:27:11,439
to then the bulk of this proposed

4747
03:27:09,840 --> 03:27:13,120
amendment to the design I think is

4748
03:27:11,439 --> 03:27:15,279
great. I do appreciate this additional

4749
03:27:13,120 --> 03:27:17,040
amendment to speak to the parking thing

4750
03:27:15,279 --> 03:27:20,080
specifically because it's really

4751
03:27:17,040 --> 03:27:23,439
important to note that the parking uh

4752
03:27:20,080 --> 03:27:25,520
the parking some of the parking removal

4753
03:27:23,439 --> 03:27:27,359
will need to the most critical places

4754
03:27:25,520 --> 03:27:29,279
where it's removed is in and around

4755
03:27:27,359 --> 03:27:31,920
intersections where we know is you know

4756
03:27:29,279 --> 03:27:35,120
a safe is a problematic area for safety

4757
03:27:31,920 --> 03:27:37,840
both for pedestrians and for cyclists.

4758
03:27:35,120 --> 03:27:39,600
So being able to create those curb

4759
03:27:37,840 --> 03:27:42,800
extensions, being able to create that

4760
03:27:39,600 --> 03:27:45,359
that safer uh pedestrian uh crossing

4761
03:27:42,800 --> 03:27:47,279
environment and also uh the cycling

4762
03:27:45,359 --> 03:27:48,560
infrastructure is is really really key.

4763
03:27:47,279 --> 03:27:50,399
The sight lines around infrastru we've

4764
03:27:48,560 --> 03:27:52,160
heard it a couple of times tonight.

4765
03:27:50,399 --> 03:27:53,760
Intersections are the place where the

4766
03:27:52,160 --> 03:27:56,479
most conflict occurs both for

4767
03:27:53,760 --> 03:27:57,920
pedestrians and for cyclists. So, I

4768
03:27:56,479 --> 03:28:01,040
think we should look at the parking

4769
03:27:57,920 --> 03:28:03,600
topic, but there are some very key areas

4770
03:28:01,040 --> 03:28:06,720
that parking may need to be removed in

4771
03:28:03,600 --> 03:28:08,319
order to achieve a much safer situation.

4772
03:28:06,720 --> 03:28:11,439
So, I think that there's probably some

4773
03:28:08,319 --> 03:28:12,720
stuff on mid block that could go either

4774
03:28:11,439 --> 03:28:14,080
way, but especially around the

4775
03:28:12,720 --> 03:28:15,600
intersections piece, I think we need to

4776
03:28:14,080 --> 03:28:17,520
really cast our minds to the safety

4777
03:28:15,600 --> 03:28:19,399
element of it because everybody wants to

4778
03:28:17,520 --> 03:28:21,920
see that both for pedestrians and

4779
03:28:19,399 --> 03:28:23,359
walkers and better visibility for cars

4780
03:28:21,920 --> 03:28:26,560
as they approach the intersection as

4781
03:28:23,359 --> 03:28:29,000
well. So, I'm I'm definitely in in uh in

4782
03:28:26,560 --> 03:28:32,880
support of this because it considers how

4783
03:28:29,000 --> 03:28:34,399
significant the removal of some limited

4784
03:28:32,880 --> 03:28:36,080
amount of parking, especially in

4785
03:28:34,399 --> 03:28:37,760
intersections, creates a much safer

4786
03:28:36,080 --> 03:28:41,120
consideration, much safer condition.

4787
03:28:37,760 --> 03:28:42,800
Thank you, Sure. Thank you. I'm just

4788
03:28:41,120 --> 03:28:45,680
going to just just in interest of just

4789
03:28:42,800 --> 03:28:47,800
clarifying the wording here. Uh I just

4790
03:28:45,680 --> 03:28:49,840
that wording if safe conditions can be

4791
03:28:47,800 --> 03:28:52,399
maintained. I'm just want to make sure

4792
03:28:49,840 --> 03:28:54,000
that's what that means. So I might just

4793
03:28:52,399 --> 03:28:59,120
go to the mover and then I might have to

4794
03:28:54,000 --> 03:29:01,840
go ahead counc. Um thank you. Um if the

4795
03:28:59,120 --> 03:29:04,960
safe conditions proposed by the 90%

4796
03:29:01,840 --> 03:29:09,880
design can be maintained would that

4797
03:29:04,960 --> 03:29:09,880
clarify the question? Um

4798
03:29:10,000 --> 03:29:13,359
guess maybe just it helps me just with

4799
03:29:11,600 --> 03:29:14,720
the intent. So the intention is that no

4800
03:29:13,359 --> 03:29:17,120
change that the changes here would have

4801
03:29:14,720 --> 03:29:18,680
no negative impact on the safety at all.

4802
03:29:17,120 --> 03:29:21,359
Is that the

4803
03:29:18,680 --> 03:29:23,520
intent? Okay. Getting a nod. Uh, okay.

4804
03:29:21,359 --> 03:29:25,200
Thank you. Go ahead, councelor Green.

4805
03:29:23,520 --> 03:29:26,880
Thank you. This is a really good example

4806
03:29:25,200 --> 03:29:29,680
of where neighborhood collaboration

4807
03:29:26,880 --> 03:29:32,920
would be perfect. Um, because there is

4808
03:29:29,680 --> 03:29:35,359
new density proposed for Easttown. Um, I

4809
03:29:32,920 --> 03:29:37,920
believe and we don't know what the

4810
03:29:35,359 --> 03:29:39,920
impacts of that will be and parking as I

4811
03:29:37,920 --> 03:29:41,520
learned when I attended the briefly the

4812
03:29:39,920 --> 03:29:43,120
neighborhood meeting on April 29th,

4813
03:29:41,520 --> 03:29:46,319
parking is a huge challenge in that

4814
03:29:43,120 --> 03:29:48,640
area. So before we remove parking, we

4815
03:29:46,319 --> 03:29:51,120
also have to make sure that residents

4816
03:29:48,640 --> 03:29:53,680
who live there have access to their

4817
03:29:51,120 --> 03:29:56,000
homes and those who are disabled have

4818
03:29:53,680 --> 03:29:59,040
access to their homes. And so whatever

4819
03:29:56,000 --> 03:30:01,600
we do, I think I think that the um that

4820
03:29:59,040 --> 03:30:03,279
this would be a great topic also to be

4821
03:30:01,600 --> 03:30:05,439
referred to the accessibility committee

4822
03:30:03,279 --> 03:30:06,960
for their review before we start

4823
03:30:05,439 --> 03:30:08,880
removing parking spaces. I don't

4824
03:30:06,960 --> 03:30:11,200
disagree with the intersection issue. I

4825
03:30:08,880 --> 03:30:12,720
I understand it completely, but I think

4826
03:30:11,200 --> 03:30:14,960
we have to be really careful how we

4827
03:30:12,720 --> 03:30:16,560
approach this and talking to the people

4828
03:30:14,960 --> 03:30:19,920
who actually live and park there would

4829
03:30:16,560 --> 03:30:22,560
be a good approach, I think. Thank you.

4830
03:30:19,920 --> 03:30:25,040
Thank you. Uh, any other discussion on

4831
03:30:22,560 --> 03:30:27,120
the motion? Go ahead, Councelor Watson.

4832
03:30:25,040 --> 03:30:30,399
Yes. Thank you, mayor. I'm I'm really

4833
03:30:27,120 --> 03:30:32,319
hesitant about amending it to try and

4834
03:30:30,399 --> 03:30:34,479
make it more palatable. I just think

4835
03:30:32,319 --> 03:30:36,880
that reduced parking losses losses

4836
03:30:34,479 --> 03:30:39,920
should come out of this entirely. And I

4837
03:30:36,880 --> 03:30:41,840
think that equivalent to a motion we now

4838
03:30:39,920 --> 03:30:43,359
have approved to remove speed humps,

4839
03:30:41,840 --> 03:30:45,040
we're doing this in the absence of

4840
03:30:43,359 --> 03:30:47,279
really understanding how the whole thing

4841
03:30:45,040 --> 03:30:50,319
works as a whole. So we're getting into

4842
03:30:47,279 --> 03:30:53,479
the weeds now at least twice in this

4843
03:30:50,319 --> 03:30:55,080
overall design. Um

4844
03:30:53,479 --> 03:30:58,800
and

4845
03:30:55,080 --> 03:31:01,359
safety is becomes very subjective when

4846
03:30:58,800 --> 03:31:05,600
you discuss it in a community context

4847
03:31:01,359 --> 03:31:07,760
and how will we know or measure whether

4848
03:31:05,600 --> 03:31:10,560
we have we have maintained the same

4849
03:31:07,760 --> 03:31:13,640
safety level because we right now we

4850
03:31:10,560 --> 03:31:17,279
don't have safety. So I I

4851
03:31:13,640 --> 03:31:19,439
I would just would prefer that we don't

4852
03:31:17,279 --> 03:31:22,560
have reduced parking loss as an issue at

4853
03:31:19,439 --> 03:31:26,640
all. the road. This is a public right of

4854
03:31:22,560 --> 03:31:29,600
way in a neighborhood bike way that is

4855
03:31:26,640 --> 03:31:31,520
supposed to be providing safe access for

4856
03:31:29,600 --> 03:31:34,080
bikes in a space that is not shared at

4857
03:31:31,520 --> 03:31:36,640
the moment. Our focus in my view should

4858
03:31:34,080 --> 03:31:38,319
not be concerned about parking at all.

4859
03:31:36,640 --> 03:31:41,680
It should be concerned about how do we

4860
03:31:38,319 --> 03:31:44,239
share this roadway with cyclists while

4861
03:31:41,680 --> 03:31:46,800
as a as a consequence also it will be

4862
03:31:44,239 --> 03:31:49,680
made more safe for pedestrians. So I am

4863
03:31:46,800 --> 03:31:52,000
so against the idea of having parking as

4864
03:31:49,680 --> 03:31:54,720
an issue that's being discussed in this

4865
03:31:52,000 --> 03:31:57,600
recommendation at all. Appreciate the

4866
03:31:54,720 --> 03:31:59,439
passion. Councelor was uh councelor

4867
03:31:57,600 --> 03:32:02,040
Patterson.

4868
03:31:59,439 --> 03:32:05,800
Yes. Thank you mayor. And

4869
03:32:02,040 --> 03:32:08,239
um you know it yes safety is very

4870
03:32:05,800 --> 03:32:09,960
important. So is parking though. And you

4871
03:32:08,239 --> 03:32:13,520
know the the the

4872
03:32:09,960 --> 03:32:17,160
the dilemma here is we are just now

4873
03:32:13,520 --> 03:32:21,279
engaging in undertaking a revised

4874
03:32:17,160 --> 03:32:24,239
OCP for and some of these bike pathways

4875
03:32:21,279 --> 03:32:27,840
in fact uh that we're they were trying

4876
03:32:24,239 --> 03:32:30,160
to um accommodate in the community now

4877
03:32:27,840 --> 03:32:32,479
were the same ones that were proposed

4878
03:32:30,160 --> 03:32:34,880
back when the first OCP was done and the

4879
03:32:32,479 --> 03:32:37,279
first report on this was done. And in

4880
03:32:34,880 --> 03:32:39,880
fact, um, even what we're discussing

4881
03:32:37,279 --> 03:32:43,920
here tonight, um, once

4882
03:32:39,880 --> 03:32:46,640
we complete our our public engagement on

4883
03:32:43,920 --> 03:32:48,880
the OCP and start the revision of the

4884
03:32:46,640 --> 03:32:51,040
OCP could change all of this again

4885
03:32:48,880 --> 03:32:52,720
dramatically. And I don't think we're we

4886
03:32:51,040 --> 03:32:55,800
I don't even think that we can really

4887
03:32:52,720 --> 03:32:58,239
discuss with any um credibility and

4888
03:32:55,800 --> 03:33:00,399
intelligence what exactly will be

4889
03:32:58,239 --> 03:33:02,880
required by way of transportation in

4890
03:33:00,399 --> 03:33:06,560
that area and certainly how we will

4891
03:33:02,880 --> 03:33:08,800
accommodate uh people living, people uh

4892
03:33:06,560 --> 03:33:11,680
walking, people cycling and people

4893
03:33:08,800 --> 03:33:16,160
parking in the area until we review the

4894
03:33:11,680 --> 03:33:18,080
OCP process also. So um uh you know

4895
03:33:16,160 --> 03:33:21,600
we're we're trying to to push this

4896
03:33:18,080 --> 03:33:24,479
through rapidly I think to to um

4897
03:33:21,600 --> 03:33:26,720
accommodate uh some of what we have been

4898
03:33:24,479 --> 03:33:30,000
asked to do but we are doing it with

4899
03:33:26,720 --> 03:33:32,720
very limited inter uh information until

4900
03:33:30,000 --> 03:33:36,120
we in fact um engage with the community

4901
03:33:32,720 --> 03:33:36,120
on the OCP.

4902
03:33:36,319 --> 03:33:41,359
Thank you. Um I'll just speak briefly to

4903
03:33:39,600 --> 03:33:42,800
this. I I'm not crazy about the

4904
03:33:41,359 --> 03:33:45,800
amendment. I think that is sort of

4905
03:33:42,800 --> 03:33:48,399
implied, but I um I'm accepting of that

4906
03:33:45,800 --> 03:33:50,960
wording. Um I do I do think that

4907
03:33:48,399 --> 03:33:53,920
reducing parsing losses is a laudable

4908
03:33:50,960 --> 03:33:55,760
goal. There is um you know there is a

4909
03:33:53,920 --> 03:33:57,520
serious parking crunch in that in that

4910
03:33:55,760 --> 03:33:59,200
neighborhood and I don't think that we

4911
03:33:57,520 --> 03:34:01,760
should ignore that. So I think including

4912
03:33:59,200 --> 03:34:05,200
that as one of the design guidelines to

4913
03:34:01,760 --> 03:34:06,640
go back is a good one. Um uh so I'll

4914
03:34:05,200 --> 03:34:10,080
I'll support the amendment. I don't

4915
03:34:06,640 --> 03:34:12,560
think it it it's harmful. It is a gray

4916
03:34:10,080 --> 03:34:15,680
area. I'm going to say safety is always

4917
03:34:12,560 --> 03:34:17,439
uh you know is if it's if it's 1% safer

4918
03:34:15,680 --> 03:34:19,359
but it loses 50 parking spots I'm not

4919
03:34:17,439 --> 03:34:21,279
going to support that. If it's you know

4920
03:34:19,359 --> 03:34:22,479
90% safer and you lose one parking spot

4921
03:34:21,279 --> 03:34:24,319
I of course support that. So I don't

4922
03:34:22,479 --> 03:34:26,000
think this is as clearcut but I think

4923
03:34:24,319 --> 03:34:28,160
the intention of the of the motion here

4924
03:34:26,000 --> 03:34:30,800
is is is understood that we don't want

4925
03:34:28,160 --> 03:34:33,279
to be making that poor tradeoff where

4926
03:34:30,800 --> 03:34:34,800
possible. And so I think I'm supportive

4927
03:34:33,279 --> 03:34:38,080
of the of the languages for the

4928
03:34:34,800 --> 03:34:40,800
amendment for that reason. Uh any other

4929
03:34:38,080 --> 03:34:42,319
discussion on the amendment?

4930
03:34:40,800 --> 03:34:44,560
This is to add the words if safe

4931
03:34:42,319 --> 03:34:48,040
conditions can be maintained. All those

4932
03:34:44,560 --> 03:34:50,720
in favor and those

4933
03:34:48,040 --> 03:34:53,279
opposed council Watson opposed. So back

4934
03:34:50,720 --> 03:34:54,960
to the main motion which uh suggesting

4935
03:34:53,279 --> 03:34:56,800
the revision of the of those changes

4936
03:34:54,960 --> 03:34:58,560
with the to reduce cut through traffic,

4937
03:34:56,800 --> 03:35:00,880
enhance pedestrian crossing safety,

4938
03:34:58,560 --> 03:35:03,479
reduce conflict between the the east

4939
03:35:00,880 --> 03:35:06,439
down and halt traffic and reduce parking

4940
03:35:03,479 --> 03:35:09,479
losses. Any other discussion on

4941
03:35:06,439 --> 03:35:11,560
that? All right. Uh all those in

4942
03:35:09,479 --> 03:35:15,840
favor and

4943
03:35:11,560 --> 03:35:17,520
opposed none opposed. Um there is one

4944
03:35:15,840 --> 03:35:19,120
more on here if anybody wishes to move

4945
03:35:17,520 --> 03:35:20,720
discuss it. I'll move that we refer

4946
03:35:19,120 --> 03:35:22,560
intersection changes on Estavan between

4947
03:35:20,720 --> 03:35:24,920
Musgrave and Beach to the village area

4948
03:35:22,560 --> 03:35:27,279
planning process scheduled to begin in

4949
03:35:24,920 --> 03:35:28,960
2026 but advance the push button

4950
03:35:27,279 --> 03:35:31,200
crossing for bikes and pedestrians at

4951
03:35:28,960 --> 03:35:34,080
Beach Drive as part of this design.

4952
03:35:31,200 --> 03:35:36,160
Second. Move and seconded. You can speak

4953
03:35:34,080 --> 03:35:37,920
to it if you wish. Yeah, I I I I will

4954
03:35:36,160 --> 03:35:39,040
very briefly. Um, I think it's really

4955
03:35:37,920 --> 03:35:40,720
important that we advance the push

4956
03:35:39,040 --> 03:35:42,160
button crossing for the bikes. Um,

4957
03:35:40,720 --> 03:35:44,239
especially on Beach Drive. It's a very

4958
03:35:42,160 --> 03:35:47,600
busy I live right there. It's a very

4959
03:35:44,239 --> 03:35:50,560
busy um, bikeway. Um, but I do think

4960
03:35:47,600 --> 03:35:52,000
that there's merit in um, referring

4961
03:35:50,560 --> 03:35:53,920
these intersection changes to the

4962
03:35:52,000 --> 03:35:55,439
village area planning process. That's

4963
03:35:53,920 --> 03:35:57,920
something that is coming up and it's

4964
03:35:55,439 --> 03:36:02,080
something that would um be able to speak

4965
03:35:57,920 --> 03:36:05,279
to um and help with um with making any

4966
03:36:02,080 --> 03:36:06,800
suggestions on on what uh changes they

4967
03:36:05,279 --> 03:36:11,200
might like to see at that intersection

4968
03:36:06,800 --> 03:36:13,520
between Estavan and Musgrave. Thank you.

4969
03:36:11,200 --> 03:36:16,560
Any other discussion on this? Councelor

4970
03:36:13,520 --> 03:36:18,800
Smart. Well, thank you. I won't be

4971
03:36:16,560 --> 03:36:21,359
supporting this motion. I really like

4972
03:36:18,800 --> 03:36:22,960
these intersection improvements. This is

4973
03:36:21,359 --> 03:36:26,000
such a dangerous intersection. And I've

4974
03:36:22,960 --> 03:36:28,479
seen so many close calls um at this

4975
03:36:26,000 --> 03:36:30,720
intersection and this is one of my

4976
03:36:28,479 --> 03:36:33,920
favorite pedestrian improvements of the

4977
03:36:30,720 --> 03:36:38,080
whole project. Uh I don't see a reason

4978
03:36:33,920 --> 03:36:40,880
um to wait uh to do something that looks

4979
03:36:38,080 --> 03:36:44,319
um like such a great um improvement. So

4980
03:36:40,880 --> 03:36:46,720
I won't be voting in favor of this.

4981
03:36:44,319 --> 03:36:48,319
Per counc.

4982
03:36:46,720 --> 03:36:49,760
Yeah. Thank you worship. Similarly, you

4983
03:36:48,319 --> 03:36:54,560
can't support this amendment just

4984
03:36:49,760 --> 03:36:55,920
because I I can't I I I'm just not uh so

4985
03:36:54,560 --> 03:36:57,840
interested in the pedestrian

4986
03:36:55,920 --> 03:36:59,840
improvements around that that Estavon

4987
03:36:57,840 --> 03:37:01,120
intersection. I mean, long before we

4988
03:36:59,840 --> 03:37:04,160
were talking about this particular

4989
03:37:01,120 --> 03:37:05,600
bikeway, uh folks were raising the issue

4990
03:37:04,160 --> 03:37:07,760
of that intersection. That intersection

4991
03:37:05,600 --> 03:37:09,760
is legendary all over the all over the

4992
03:37:07,760 --> 03:37:11,279
community. So, and there have been some

4993
03:37:09,760 --> 03:37:13,680
interventions that we've done recently

4994
03:37:11,279 --> 03:37:15,439
to improve things and as going through

4995
03:37:13,680 --> 03:37:17,840
on my bike on a pretty regular basis,

4996
03:37:15,439 --> 03:37:19,439
it's definitely better, but uh from a

4997
03:37:17,840 --> 03:37:20,960
pedestrian standpoint, that's still a

4998
03:37:19,439 --> 03:37:23,760
confusing intersection and could still

4999
03:37:20,960 --> 03:37:25,680
deal with a really large upgrade. So, in

5000
03:37:23,760 --> 03:37:27,040
terms of that particular intersection, I

5001
03:37:25,680 --> 03:37:28,399
would hate to for us to lose those

5002
03:37:27,040 --> 03:37:30,319
safety improvements, especially in the

5003
03:37:28,399 --> 03:37:33,600
pedestrian realm, and and just improve

5004
03:37:30,319 --> 03:37:35,359
the the flow of folks and uh and and

5005
03:37:33,600 --> 03:37:36,800
manage the flow of traffic around that

5006
03:37:35,359 --> 03:37:38,479
intersection. So, I' I'd hate for that

5007
03:37:36,800 --> 03:37:40,640
to get lost. So not can't support this

5008
03:37:38,479 --> 03:37:42,880
amendment your worship.

5009
03:37:40,640 --> 03:37:44,000
Yeah. Thank you councelor Appleton. I

5010
03:37:42,880 --> 03:37:46,319
think it's good to have this debate

5011
03:37:44,000 --> 03:37:48,399
here. Councelor Watson.

5012
03:37:46,319 --> 03:37:50,640
Um I think in the case of this

5013
03:37:48,399 --> 03:37:53,120
particular intersection and the overall

5014
03:37:50,640 --> 03:37:54,720
street layout um there needs to be a

5015
03:37:53,120 --> 03:37:57,359
solution to the fact that we have five

5016
03:37:54,720 --> 03:37:58,880
roads approaching somewhere and um I

5017
03:37:57,359 --> 03:38:02,160
think that the design is presented is

5018
03:37:58,880 --> 03:38:04,319
really effective in doing that. um we're

5019
03:38:02,160 --> 03:38:06,800
um the village area planning process I

5020
03:38:04,319 --> 03:38:09,760
cannot anticipate that it would be

5021
03:38:06,800 --> 03:38:12,800
looking at wholesale removing roads or

5022
03:38:09,760 --> 03:38:15,359
changing that underlying grid. So while

5023
03:38:12,800 --> 03:38:17,200
I think that there's um maybe parts of

5024
03:38:15,359 --> 03:38:20,080
the village area planning process that

5025
03:38:17,200 --> 03:38:23,120
would affect what's going on on Estavan

5026
03:38:20,080 --> 03:38:25,239
as traffic as any kind of traffic moves

5027
03:38:23,120 --> 03:38:29,760
through the road itself. the

5028
03:38:25,239 --> 03:38:31,760
intersection I think uh stands alone um

5029
03:38:29,760 --> 03:38:34,160
uh and creates a really safe

5030
03:38:31,760 --> 03:38:37,439
configuration where we haven't had one

5031
03:38:34,160 --> 03:38:41,040
um um before. So uh I do not support

5032
03:38:37,439 --> 03:38:44,680
this motion as it's presented.

5033
03:38:41,040 --> 03:38:46,800
Thank you. Uh any other

5034
03:38:44,680 --> 03:38:49,600
discussion? Councelor Smart, I think I

5035
03:38:46,800 --> 03:38:51,680
had Go ahead. Yeah, I I just wanted to

5036
03:38:49,600 --> 03:38:54,800
add um you know, being that this is part

5037
03:38:51,680 --> 03:38:57,239
of the whole comprehensive design, I'm

5038
03:38:54,800 --> 03:38:59,600
really hesitant to pull this out because

5039
03:38:57,239 --> 03:39:02,800
like again, I just I don't understand

5040
03:38:59,600 --> 03:39:05,760
the implications of how that's going to

5041
03:39:02,800 --> 03:39:08,319
impact the whole bikeway design at that

5042
03:39:05,760 --> 03:39:11,760
particular intersection. So, if we if

5043
03:39:08,319 --> 03:39:13,359
we're, you know, we encouraging more and

5044
03:39:11,760 --> 03:39:17,040
more cyclists to go through an area

5045
03:39:13,359 --> 03:39:21,359
that's a a known dangerous intersection,

5046
03:39:17,040 --> 03:39:24,479
um, yeah, I just uncomfortable with it.

5047
03:39:21,359 --> 03:39:27,680
Thank you. Um, I'll speak to it briefly.

5048
03:39:24,479 --> 03:39:29,439
So, I I I uh was supportive of this when

5049
03:39:27,680 --> 03:39:32,000
in in the when we this discussion

5050
03:39:29,439 --> 03:39:34,239
happened before. This is less about the

5051
03:39:32,000 --> 03:39:36,800
uh the design. I think the design I'm

5052
03:39:34,239 --> 03:39:39,120
supportive of. Um but there's a couple

5053
03:39:36,800 --> 03:39:41,479
of key aspects of this particular area

5054
03:39:39,120 --> 03:39:44,479
that I think are really critically

5055
03:39:41,479 --> 03:39:47,520
important. One is um the village area

5056
03:39:44,479 --> 03:39:49,040
plan for Estavan in particular um really

5057
03:39:47,520 --> 03:39:51,439
is going to have to look at how it's

5058
03:39:49,040 --> 03:39:55,359
connecting to its uh to significant

5059
03:39:51,439 --> 03:39:57,359
potential um uh uh potential clients for

5060
03:39:55,359 --> 03:39:59,120
the commercial area down at the beach

5061
03:39:57,359 --> 03:40:00,880
and how do we connect that to the beach

5062
03:39:59,120 --> 03:40:02,239
in a way that is really meaningful and I

5063
03:40:00,880 --> 03:40:04,160
think that takes a bit more of a

5064
03:40:02,239 --> 03:40:06,640
holistic look. for example, the design

5065
03:40:04,160 --> 03:40:08,239
doesn't consider a a pedestrian crossing

5066
03:40:06,640 --> 03:40:11,439
on the north side of Estavan when it

5067
03:40:08,239 --> 03:40:14,319
hits Beach Drive. Um the other aspect of

5068
03:40:11,439 --> 03:40:16,800
this is that um Estavan as a whole

5069
03:40:14,319 --> 03:40:20,239
struggles to have the ambiance and

5070
03:40:16,800 --> 03:40:21,920
attraction of Oak Bay Village. And so

5071
03:40:20,239 --> 03:40:24,000
while I I actually really like the

5072
03:40:21,920 --> 03:40:26,160
design that's being put forward here, um

5073
03:40:24,000 --> 03:40:28,399
to my mind, this is a permanent design

5074
03:40:26,160 --> 03:40:30,160
approach. This is putting in concrete

5075
03:40:28,399 --> 03:40:32,479
and using that space and perhaps even

5076
03:40:30,160 --> 03:40:34,880
expanding it. So there's more aspect

5077
03:40:32,479 --> 03:40:36,640
space for public gathering space for

5078
03:40:34,880 --> 03:40:38,720
pieces. Um this painting lines in the

5079
03:40:36,640 --> 03:40:41,040
ground, putting in multiple ballards. Uh

5080
03:40:38,720 --> 03:40:43,439
it's going to create a a very cluttered

5081
03:40:41,040 --> 03:40:45,760
and very temporary looking space there.

5082
03:40:43,439 --> 03:40:47,840
And I just think that this is worth

5083
03:40:45,760 --> 03:40:49,200
taking that little bit of extra time

5084
03:40:47,840 --> 03:40:50,560
agreeing on it and then building

5085
03:40:49,200 --> 03:40:53,200
something that's actually really

5086
03:40:50,560 --> 03:40:55,920
substantial and and beneficial. I think

5087
03:40:53,200 --> 03:40:59,040
my my fear here is that advancing this

5088
03:40:55,920 --> 03:41:00,640
portion in this section um will will

5089
03:40:59,040 --> 03:41:02,960
spend money in ways that will won't

5090
03:41:00,640 --> 03:41:05,680
necessarily last very long and may

5091
03:41:02,960 --> 03:41:06,960
actually materially damage the

5092
03:41:05,680 --> 03:41:08,720
effectiveness of the businesses. So

5093
03:41:06,960 --> 03:41:10,080
that's my primary concern. I I agree

5094
03:41:08,720 --> 03:41:11,680
with the other comments made here. I

5095
03:41:10,080 --> 03:41:13,840
think that the changes are are

5096
03:41:11,680 --> 03:41:15,600
worthwhile. I just doing them with paint

5097
03:41:13,840 --> 03:41:17,680
and and multiple ballards and things is

5098
03:41:15,600 --> 03:41:19,120
not to my mind the right approach when

5099
03:41:17,680 --> 03:41:20,960
we have the opportunity and just

5100
03:41:19,120 --> 03:41:22,720
deferring the spending of that money um

5101
03:41:20,960 --> 03:41:24,880
and perhaps spending that uh more

5102
03:41:22,720 --> 03:41:26,720
capital on the on the concrete in a

5103
03:41:24,880 --> 03:41:28,640
short order is is where I'm coming from

5104
03:41:26,720 --> 03:41:29,920
on this one. So I am supportive of the

5105
03:41:28,640 --> 03:41:33,040
motion but I do appreciate the comments

5106
03:41:29,920 --> 03:41:34,880
that have been made by by my peers. Um I

5107
03:41:33,040 --> 03:41:37,160
just want to go to any other first time

5108
03:41:34,880 --> 03:41:39,920
or second time

5109
03:41:37,160 --> 03:41:42,479
speakers and I see your hand. Thank you.

5110
03:41:39,920 --> 03:41:43,920
I'm just hoping that um either the mover

5111
03:41:42,479 --> 03:41:45,439
of the the motion or one of the

5112
03:41:43,920 --> 03:41:47,200
supporters could walk us through the

5113
03:41:45,439 --> 03:41:49,239
drawings. I just want to know how many

5114
03:41:47,200 --> 03:41:51,760
intersections and whether this also

5115
03:41:49,239 --> 03:41:53,840
includes is it including new crosswalks,

5116
03:41:51,760 --> 03:41:56,680
bumpouts, is it including speed humps?

5117
03:41:53,840 --> 03:41:59,200
Could I I need some more clarity around

5118
03:41:56,680 --> 03:42:00,880
um exactly how much is being taken out

5119
03:41:59,200 --> 03:42:02,319
of the project with this motion? Like

5120
03:42:00,880 --> 03:42:04,000
could we could you reference the

5121
03:42:02,319 --> 03:42:07,200
different um pages in the drawing

5122
03:42:04,000 --> 03:42:08,880
package that this refers to?

5123
03:42:07,200 --> 03:42:11,040
do my best to help you with that just so

5124
03:42:08,880 --> 03:42:14,760
it's it's it's clear. So the drawings uh

5125
03:42:11,040 --> 03:42:16,279
run from drawing 16

5126
03:42:14,760 --> 03:42:19,479
cover

5127
03:42:16,279 --> 03:42:22,720
17 and

5128
03:42:19,479 --> 03:42:24,800
18. The speed humps are already removed

5129
03:42:22,720 --> 03:42:26,200
as part of that direct further direction

5130
03:42:24,800 --> 03:42:30,960
if this moves

5131
03:42:26,200 --> 03:42:34,080
forward. Um the um so really just the

5132
03:42:30,960 --> 03:42:36,960
ballards and and and bumpouts in Estan

5133
03:42:34,080 --> 03:42:38,960
Village. Um there's a crosswalk already

5134
03:42:36,960 --> 03:42:41,520
there. So this is just the ballards and

5135
03:42:38,960 --> 03:42:43,359
those pieces and we're then and really

5136
03:42:41,520 --> 03:42:45,600
nothing else on Estavan until it gets to

5137
03:42:43,359 --> 03:42:48,080
Beach Drive and then really just

5138
03:42:45,600 --> 03:42:51,840
advancing all of the pedestrian and

5139
03:42:48,080 --> 03:42:53,680
bicycle um push button crossings for

5140
03:42:51,840 --> 03:42:55,439
that intersection, but it would not

5141
03:42:53,680 --> 03:42:58,479
include the additional concrete work of

5142
03:42:55,439 --> 03:43:00,960
the bumpouts, the greenery, those pieces

5143
03:42:58,479 --> 03:43:00,960
at this

5144
03:43:01,239 --> 03:43:07,359
time. That's on page 18.

5145
03:43:04,640 --> 03:43:09,520
Does that help, Councelor Smart?

5146
03:43:07,359 --> 03:43:11,200
Um, that helps a little bit. So, now

5147
03:43:09,520 --> 03:43:14,080
this is bringing up a question for me of

5148
03:43:11,200 --> 03:43:17,359
what the definition of um um cut through

5149
03:43:14,080 --> 03:43:19,279
is because you're saying like you would

5150
03:43:17,359 --> 03:43:21,040
assume that these speed bumps would be

5151
03:43:19,279 --> 03:43:22,319
removed from the motion you made

5152
03:43:21,040 --> 03:43:25,439
previously. I guess I find that

5153
03:43:22,319 --> 03:43:27,120
definition a bit confusing too. Um so

5154
03:43:25,439 --> 03:43:30,960
there wouldn't be any traffic calming on

5155
03:43:27,120 --> 03:43:33,840
this stretch. So, um, the traffic speeds

5156
03:43:30,960 --> 03:43:35,199
wouldn't, um, I wonder maybe we could

5157
03:43:33,840 --> 03:43:36,960
ask a question to staff of what the

5158
03:43:35,199 --> 03:43:40,720
current, um, traffic speeds and counts

5159
03:43:36,960 --> 03:43:42,560
are here. 30 30 km. No, no, the actual

5160
03:43:40,720 --> 03:43:45,040
like the measured, not I'm sure the

5161
03:43:42,560 --> 03:43:47,040
speed limit says that, but Mr. Reic, do

5162
03:43:45,040 --> 03:43:49,800
you have at hand the 85th percentile for

5163
03:43:47,040 --> 03:43:52,080
Estavan between uh, Dun Levy and Beach

5164
03:43:49,800 --> 03:43:54,000
Drive? Uh, thank you for the question,

5165
03:43:52,080 --> 03:43:55,600
Mr. Mayor. Uh, that's not information

5166
03:43:54,000 --> 03:43:59,239
that I'm able to pull up at my

5167
03:43:55,600 --> 03:44:03,880
fingertips at this time. All right.

5168
03:43:59,239 --> 03:44:03,880
Anything else? Councelor Smart?

5169
03:44:04,080 --> 03:44:09,199
Um, no. I obviously I don't I don't

5170
03:44:06,800 --> 03:44:11,840
support this be because um like we're

5171
03:44:09,199 --> 03:44:13,600
taking traffic come coming out. We're

5172
03:44:11,840 --> 03:44:16,319
getting rid of Yeah. No, I just I don't

5173
03:44:13,600 --> 03:44:18,040
support this at all.

5174
03:44:16,319 --> 03:44:20,319
Okay. Thank

5175
03:44:18,040 --> 03:44:21,680
you. Other discussion? I don't see any

5176
03:44:20,319 --> 03:44:22,880
other hands. The motion's on the floor

5177
03:44:21,680 --> 03:44:25,520
at the moment. Oh, Councelor Patterson,

5178
03:44:22,880 --> 03:44:28,080
my apologies.

5179
03:44:25,520 --> 03:44:30,040
Yes, I I will support this because I

5180
03:44:28,080 --> 03:44:33,040
think that um

5181
03:44:30,040 --> 03:44:34,960
it it could be adapted with the village

5182
03:44:33,040 --> 03:44:37,199
area planning which hopefully will also

5183
03:44:34,960 --> 03:44:39,600
include pedestrian sidewalks through the

5184
03:44:37,199 --> 03:44:43,120
village which are not um incorporated

5185
03:44:39,600 --> 03:44:44,960
into any of this. We all of the all of

5186
03:44:43,120 --> 03:44:47,520
the monies are being allocated for

5187
03:44:44,960 --> 03:44:49,840
really the cycling path and and those

5188
03:44:47,520 --> 03:44:52,000
pedestrian crossings there. We we're not

5189
03:44:49,840 --> 03:44:54,800
addressing the sidewalks yet. So I would

5190
03:44:52,000 --> 03:44:56,720
like to see a more um cohesive uh plan

5191
03:44:54,800 --> 03:44:58,960
that binds it all together when the

5192
03:44:56,720 --> 03:45:02,960
Estaban Village plan comes together. And

5193
03:44:58,960 --> 03:45:04,199
that is not uh very far off. It's uh

5194
03:45:02,960 --> 03:45:08,479
beginning in

5195
03:45:04,199 --> 03:45:11,399
2026. And um I I uh can't help but

5196
03:45:08,479 --> 03:45:13,920
notice that right now in that area on

5197
03:45:11,399 --> 03:45:16,800
Estavan, there are a lot of pipes going

5198
03:45:13,920 --> 03:45:19,040
in and streets being dug up right now.

5199
03:45:16,800 --> 03:45:20,800
So I I think delaying this as part of

5200
03:45:19,040 --> 03:45:22,640
the built village plan makes sense to

5201
03:45:20,800 --> 03:45:25,520
me.

5202
03:45:22,640 --> 03:45:26,800
Okay. Other discussion, councelor Smart,

5203
03:45:25,520 --> 03:45:29,199
I just want to know if this also

5204
03:45:26,800 --> 03:45:31,279
includes getting rid of the elephant um

5205
03:45:29,199 --> 03:45:33,840
feet at the intersection. Um I believe

5206
03:45:31,279 --> 03:45:36,479
by it sounds like if we didn't specify

5207
03:45:33,840 --> 03:45:38,560
otherwise that it it would um it's

5208
03:45:36,479 --> 03:45:41,680
unclear to me. And and does it include

5209
03:45:38,560 --> 03:45:43,520
the sheros? Are we doing sheros here?

5210
03:45:41,680 --> 03:45:45,359
Sure. Thank you. My my understanding is

5211
03:45:43,520 --> 03:45:47,600
that those would continue on. This is

5212
03:45:45,359 --> 03:45:49,040
just the intersection the hard pieces

5213
03:45:47,600 --> 03:45:50,000
but perhaps just for clip I'm going to

5214
03:45:49,040 --> 03:45:51,920
go around the table there just to make

5215
03:45:50,000 --> 03:45:54,000
sure we're very clear the all the

5216
03:45:51,920 --> 03:45:55,840
crosswalks at elephant's feet would

5217
03:45:54,000 --> 03:45:58,560
still be desired to still continue in

5218
03:45:55,840 --> 03:45:59,920
those okay seeing nods around the table

5219
03:45:58,560 --> 03:46:01,080
so thanks for that clarification

5220
03:45:59,920 --> 03:46:04,080
councelor

5221
03:46:01,080 --> 03:46:05,520
Smart please continue

5222
03:46:04,080 --> 03:46:06,640
um thank you I'd like to propose an

5223
03:46:05,520 --> 03:46:08,399
amendment to the amendment then because

5224
03:46:06,640 --> 03:46:10,160
all it says is advancing the push button

5225
03:46:08,399 --> 03:46:11,920
crossing for bikes and pedestrians as

5226
03:46:10,160 --> 03:46:15,359
beach park as part of this design so I

5227
03:46:11,920 --> 03:46:19,600
would um prefer to amend this uh to

5228
03:46:15,359 --> 03:46:21,439
include um sherrows and elephant feet um

5229
03:46:19,600 --> 03:46:22,960
and any I think just street markings

5230
03:46:21,439 --> 03:46:25,920
street markings is probably the better

5231
03:46:22,960 --> 03:46:27,359
way of putting it

5232
03:46:25,920 --> 03:46:32,040
just to make sure that we're not with

5233
03:46:27,359 --> 03:46:35,279
those to include street markings

5234
03:46:32,040 --> 03:46:38,560
okay the motion is to add the words and

5235
03:46:35,279 --> 03:46:40,640
uh advance this and street markings so

5236
03:46:38,560 --> 03:46:41,640
that's clear and seconded any discussion

5237
03:46:40,640 --> 03:46:44,640
on that

5238
03:46:41,640 --> 03:46:45,920
change seeing any all those in favor Any

5239
03:46:44,640 --> 03:46:49,439
opposed? None opposed. Thank you for

5240
03:46:45,920 --> 03:46:50,560
that, Cash Councelor Smart.

5241
03:46:49,439 --> 03:46:52,479
I'm just going to try to look around

5242
03:46:50,560 --> 03:46:54,600
here for any other discussion on the

5243
03:46:52,479 --> 03:46:57,760
motion as it stands as

5244
03:46:54,600 --> 03:47:01,040
amended. All right. All those in favor

5245
03:46:57,760 --> 03:47:04,160
and opposed. Councelor Watson, Appleton,

5246
03:47:01,040 --> 03:47:05,600
and Smart opposed. Any other amendments

5247
03:47:04,160 --> 03:47:08,040
that people wish to see at this point?

5248
03:47:05,600 --> 03:47:10,800
Councelor, uh, sorry, Councelor

5249
03:47:08,040 --> 03:47:13,840
Patterson, past my bedtime. Hopefully my

5250
03:47:10,800 --> 03:47:16,239
name is correct in front of me. Um, yes,

5251
03:47:13,840 --> 03:47:19,279
Mayor. Thank you. Uh, I would also like

5252
03:47:16,239 --> 03:47:21,680
to make a motion to implement traffic

5253
03:47:19,279 --> 03:47:23,680
speed reduction to 10 kilometers per

5254
03:47:21,680 --> 03:47:25,840
hour through the Goldsmith Street

5255
03:47:23,680 --> 03:47:28,160
parking lot. That's shown on drawing

5256
03:47:25,840 --> 03:47:31,160
four.

5257
03:47:28,160 --> 03:47:31,160
Second.

5258
03:47:34,319 --> 03:47:39,359
So, just read that again.

5259
03:47:36,479 --> 03:47:41,359
Yes. uh to implement traffic speed

5260
03:47:39,359 --> 03:47:43,920
reduction to 10 kilometers per hour

5261
03:47:41,359 --> 03:47:46,880
through the Gold Smith Street parking

5262
03:47:43,920 --> 03:47:49,199
lot uh which is shown on uh drawing

5263
03:47:46,880 --> 03:47:51,840
four. Uh thank you for that

5264
03:47:49,199 --> 03:47:55,359
clarification. Is there a seconder? Did

5265
03:47:51,840 --> 03:47:56,880
I hear a second? Seconded. Thank you. Um

5266
03:47:55,359 --> 03:47:59,920
you can speak to it, but it might be

5267
03:47:56,880 --> 03:48:01,520
worthwhile just to my my knowledge of

5268
03:47:59,920 --> 03:48:03,600
speed appropriate speed limits in

5269
03:48:01,520 --> 03:48:05,120
parking lots is very minimal. So, I

5270
03:48:03,600 --> 03:48:06,479
might appreciate if you could just also

5271
03:48:05,120 --> 03:48:08,000
just direct your question to staff about

5272
03:48:06,479 --> 03:48:10,560
what what that might be. But go ahead,

5273
03:48:08,000 --> 03:48:13,359
Councelor Patterson. Yes. and and you

5274
03:48:10,560 --> 03:48:15,680
know it it's a matter of signage I guess

5275
03:48:13,359 --> 03:48:17,840
uh through the area but that parking lot

5276
03:48:15,680 --> 03:48:20,399
particularly as it as it's proposed now

5277
03:48:17,840 --> 03:48:23,520
for the bike lanes there will be quite a

5278
03:48:20,399 --> 03:48:27,279
um a considerable amount of of a variety

5279
03:48:23,520 --> 03:48:32,960
of activities because it's it's uh

5280
03:48:27,279 --> 03:48:36,080
certainly used by um by the some of the

5281
03:48:32,960 --> 03:48:38,640
uh users of the the recreation center

5282
03:48:36,080 --> 03:48:40,560
off of B Street as as overflow parking

5283
03:48:38,640 --> 03:48:43,840
It's also used quite extensively right

5284
03:48:40,560 --> 03:48:46,239
now um as overflow parking to the public

5285
03:48:43,840 --> 03:48:48,160
works. There is a a gate installed in

5286
03:48:46,239 --> 03:48:51,040
the public works yard with a push button

5287
03:48:48,160 --> 03:48:53,600
code so that the staff can leave the

5288
03:48:51,040 --> 03:48:56,239
public works yard, go into the um the

5289
03:48:53,600 --> 03:48:58,960
Goldsmith parking lot and so you have

5290
03:48:56,239 --> 03:49:01,600
heavy vehicles moving through there. Um

5291
03:48:58,960 --> 03:49:04,160
you also have a couple of handicapped

5292
03:49:01,600 --> 03:49:07,520
accessible spots in there. We have a lot

5293
03:49:04,160 --> 03:49:10,560
of pedestrian traffic from the seniors.

5294
03:49:07,520 --> 03:49:12,399
um uh facilities that are adjacent to

5295
03:49:10,560 --> 03:49:14,160
that and apartment buildings that are

5296
03:49:12,399 --> 03:49:16,160
adjacent. Many of them go and use the

5297
03:49:14,160 --> 03:49:19,359
track. So, you've got pedestrian

5298
03:49:16,160 --> 03:49:23,120
traffic. You'll we're introducing new um

5299
03:49:19,359 --> 03:49:27,120
bicycle pathways and we have vehicle

5300
03:49:23,120 --> 03:49:29,439
traffic all converging on that area. And

5301
03:49:27,120 --> 03:49:32,160
um there's not very well delineated

5302
03:49:29,439 --> 03:49:35,520
paths for travel. So, it it's very

5303
03:49:32,160 --> 03:49:38,239
random crossing right now. um some of

5304
03:49:35,520 --> 03:49:40,560
the uh the bicycles going through,

5305
03:49:38,239 --> 03:49:43,680
especially ebikes are traveling very

5306
03:49:40,560 --> 03:49:46,800
quickly. We do also have uh vehicles

5307
03:49:43,680 --> 03:49:49,359
that um pull in and out very rapidly.

5308
03:49:46,800 --> 03:49:52,880
So, by implementing new signage in the

5309
03:49:49,359 --> 03:49:55,359
area, hopefully it will help uh remind

5310
03:49:52,880 --> 03:49:59,520
people to slow down that it is in fact a

5311
03:49:55,359 --> 03:50:03,760
parking lot um with uh multi-use um

5312
03:49:59,520 --> 03:50:05,279
access. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just

5313
03:50:03,760 --> 03:50:08,479
going to ask my question of staff

5314
03:50:05,279 --> 03:50:09,840
because I just uh Mr. Renick um the

5315
03:50:08,479 --> 03:50:12,239
motion here is very specific to a 10

5316
03:50:09,840 --> 03:50:13,359
kmter an hour and I just I've never seen

5317
03:50:12,239 --> 03:50:16,239
I'm not I'm just not familiar with

5318
03:50:13,359 --> 03:50:18,160
parking speeds in parking lots. Um can

5319
03:50:16,239 --> 03:50:20,160
you just make give us some indication of

5320
03:50:18,160 --> 03:50:22,680
is that an appropriate ask at this

5321
03:50:20,160 --> 03:50:25,760
point. Uh is is is 2018

5322
03:50:22,680 --> 03:50:27,840
10 hand over to you.

5323
03:50:25,760 --> 03:50:30,160
Uh thank you very much Mr. Mayor.

5324
03:50:27,840 --> 03:50:32,000
Typically speed limits in parking lots,

5325
03:50:30,160 --> 03:50:34,560
as parking lots are generally private

5326
03:50:32,000 --> 03:50:36,399
property, are essentially established by

5327
03:50:34,560 --> 03:50:38,880
the property owner for whatever it is

5328
03:50:36,399 --> 03:50:42,080
that they like to see. As to whether 10

5329
03:50:38,880 --> 03:50:44,520
km is appropriate. Just for uh

5330
03:50:42,080 --> 03:50:46,640
comparison sake, this parking lot is 15

5331
03:50:44,520 --> 03:50:48,399
km/h. This parking lot's a little bit of

5332
03:50:46,640 --> 03:50:50,720
a different story because it is used as

5333
03:50:48,399 --> 03:50:53,760
a cut through. Um but I would not say

5334
03:50:50,720 --> 03:50:56,319
that 10 km per hour is an inappropriate

5335
03:50:53,760 --> 03:50:57,840
speed for a parking lot. Um perhaps

5336
03:50:56,319 --> 03:50:59,520
maybe if the motion did not have a

5337
03:50:57,840 --> 03:51:01,199
specific speed limit in it that would

5338
03:50:59,520 --> 03:51:04,080
give a little bit more flexibility, but

5339
03:51:01,199 --> 03:51:05,600
I'm I'm okay with 10.

5340
03:51:04,080 --> 03:51:07,680
So the motion on the floor right now is

5341
03:51:05,600 --> 03:51:09,040
to basically direct changes that would

5342
03:51:07,680 --> 03:51:11,359
have the traffic speed reduction in

5343
03:51:09,040 --> 03:51:12,960
Goldmith to 10 km an hour. Leave that to

5344
03:51:11,359 --> 03:51:15,080
signs or design or what have you, but at

5345
03:51:12,960 --> 03:51:17,279
this point just to incorporate that

5346
03:51:15,080 --> 03:51:18,680
intention. Thank you. Is there any other

5347
03:51:17,279 --> 03:51:21,279
discussion on

5348
03:51:18,680 --> 03:51:24,000
that? Fine with that as well. All those

5349
03:51:21,279 --> 03:51:25,600
in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. We

5350
03:51:24,000 --> 03:51:27,680
now have motion as amended. Is there any

5351
03:51:25,600 --> 03:51:30,720
other amendment motions? Councelor

5352
03:51:27,680 --> 03:51:32,560
Green, a motion rising. I haven't called

5353
03:51:30,720 --> 03:51:35,120
the motion the the question on the main

5354
03:51:32,560 --> 03:51:36,640
motion at this point. Yeah. Councelor

5355
03:51:35,120 --> 03:51:38,080
Smart.

5356
03:51:36,640 --> 03:51:39,760
Yeah. I'd like to make an amendment that

5357
03:51:38,080 --> 03:51:41,279
the consultant provide a summary

5358
03:51:39,760 --> 03:51:43,040
highlighting any safety concerns that

5359
03:51:41,279 --> 03:51:46,359
have arisen due to the proposed changes

5360
03:51:43,040 --> 03:51:46,359
in the design.

5361
03:51:51,479 --> 03:51:55,040
Seconded. Go ahead. Can you just read it

5362
03:51:53,600 --> 03:51:56,399
again just so we have Y that the

5363
03:51:55,040 --> 03:51:57,920
consultant provide a summary

5364
03:51:56,399 --> 03:51:59,680
highlighting any safety concerns that

5365
03:51:57,920 --> 03:52:02,920
have arisen due to the proposed changes

5366
03:51:59,680 --> 03:52:02,920
in design.

5367
03:52:06,800 --> 03:52:11,120
Okay. Go ahead.

5368
03:52:08,279 --> 03:52:14,160
Sorry. Thanks. I I just want the um

5369
03:52:11,120 --> 03:52:15,840
there to be a very um brief summary um

5370
03:52:14,160 --> 03:52:18,960
and an opportunity for the consult

5371
03:52:15,840 --> 03:52:20,399
consultant to use their expertise to

5372
03:52:18,960 --> 03:52:21,680
come back to council and say we heard

5373
03:52:20,399 --> 03:52:23,520
all of these things just so you know

5374
03:52:21,680 --> 03:52:24,960
like this one particular thing we're

5375
03:52:23,520 --> 03:52:28,000
really concerned about from a safety

5376
03:52:24,960 --> 03:52:29,199
point of view um um or because we've

5377
03:52:28,000 --> 03:52:30,399
done this and that because we've changed

5378
03:52:29,199 --> 03:52:31,600
so many things I think it's really

5379
03:52:30,399 --> 03:52:33,439
important that we get like at least a

5380
03:52:31,600 --> 03:52:36,000
paragraph back from the consultant that

5381
03:52:33,439 --> 03:52:37,600
highlights um any concerns they have

5382
03:52:36,000 --> 03:52:40,080
about how these changes are impacting

5383
03:52:37,600 --> 03:52:42,960
the overall design. So I just want to

5384
03:52:40,080 --> 03:52:45,279
make sure that we don't um go ahead and

5385
03:52:42,960 --> 03:52:47,680
in a sense become responsible for these

5386
03:52:45,279 --> 03:52:49,359
traffic engineering design changes. Um

5387
03:52:47,680 --> 03:52:52,080
we really need the expert to tell us in

5388
03:52:49,359 --> 03:52:54,160
the end is it going to work. Thank you.

5389
03:52:52,080 --> 03:52:55,680
Might I suggest that we rather than a

5390
03:52:54,160 --> 03:52:59,120
summary of safety concerns which might

5391
03:52:55,680 --> 03:53:01,439
be a little bit of a a report that um

5392
03:52:59,120 --> 03:53:04,399
that maybe just that we give direction

5393
03:53:01,439 --> 03:53:06,239
that that safety concerns that arise can

5394
03:53:04,399 --> 03:53:07,520
be incorporated uh through design

5395
03:53:06,239 --> 03:53:09,520
changes in the in the piece. I don't

5396
03:53:07,520 --> 03:53:10,960
know that we want them to flag it. I'm

5397
03:53:09,520 --> 03:53:12,960
just trying to make should see if that's

5398
03:53:10,960 --> 03:53:14,880
a um I hear what you're saying. I don't

5399
03:53:12,960 --> 03:53:16,399
think providing a summary would take

5400
03:53:14,880 --> 03:53:19,040
that much work. And I think the thing is

5401
03:53:16,399 --> 03:53:22,720
we have actually um directed if should

5402
03:53:19,040 --> 03:53:24,960
these amendments pass um things that are

5403
03:53:22,720 --> 03:53:27,680
going a specific direction. So if they

5404
03:53:24,960 --> 03:53:30,080
don't actually have the ability to go

5405
03:53:27,680 --> 03:53:32,000
against this direction and say no, we

5406
03:53:30,080 --> 03:53:33,279
actually really think that this isn't a

5407
03:53:32,000 --> 03:53:35,199
cut through, but we really need that

5408
03:53:33,279 --> 03:53:37,600
speed bump there and this is why. So, if

5409
03:53:35,199 --> 03:53:39,279
we can't give them a mechanism to

5410
03:53:37,600 --> 03:53:40,399
actually disagree with some of our

5411
03:53:39,279 --> 03:53:43,680
direction at the table, we need to at

5412
03:53:40,399 --> 03:53:45,199
least have a summary um of concerns that

5413
03:53:43,680 --> 03:53:47,520
they might have with the direction we've

5414
03:53:45,199 --> 03:53:49,840
given in the design.

5415
03:53:47,520 --> 03:53:52,319
Sure. Uh go to speakers. I'm going to go

5416
03:53:49,840 --> 03:53:53,520
to council. Did I see your hand council?

5417
03:53:52,319 --> 03:53:56,479
Oh, you just seconded it, but do you

5418
03:53:53,520 --> 03:53:59,279
wish to speak? Yes. I actually like like

5419
03:53:56,479 --> 03:54:01,120
to um though I supported the motion, but

5420
03:53:59,279 --> 03:54:03,279
I'd like to amend it because the wording

5421
03:54:01,120 --> 03:54:05,040
right now says proposed changes, but

5422
03:54:03,279 --> 03:54:07,439
they're actually directed changes

5423
03:54:05,040 --> 03:54:09,199
because we've voted on them. So I if if

5424
03:54:07,439 --> 03:54:11,920
the mover of the motion would agree to

5425
03:54:09,199 --> 03:54:13,840
the amendment to change the wording of

5426
03:54:11,920 --> 03:54:16,080
the main motion and I would that's

5427
03:54:13,840 --> 03:54:19,080
that's my only comment. I find that

5428
03:54:16,080 --> 03:54:19,080
acceptable.

5429
03:54:20,160 --> 03:54:24,760
Would you like me to read out the motion

5430
03:54:21,520 --> 03:54:24,760
as amended?

5431
03:54:25,439 --> 03:54:29,840
Uh yeah to produce a summary of direct

5432
03:54:28,000 --> 03:54:31,840
the consultants to produce a summary of

5433
03:54:29,840 --> 03:54:33,439
safety concerns resulting from directed

5434
03:54:31,840 --> 03:54:36,880
changes.

5435
03:54:33,439 --> 03:54:38,000
Is that is that what you have? Okay. Go

5436
03:54:36,880 --> 03:54:40,800
ahead councelor Green and then councelor

5437
03:54:38,000 --> 03:54:42,479
brief. I find this really interesting

5438
03:54:40,800 --> 03:54:43,800
because the last time we discussed this

5439
03:54:42,479 --> 03:54:46,040
we talked about

5440
03:54:43,800 --> 03:54:47,840
pre-implementation analysis and

5441
03:54:46,040 --> 03:54:50,000
postimplementation and now we want a

5442
03:54:47,840 --> 03:54:51,840
pre-implementation which is what I put

5443
03:54:50,000 --> 03:54:54,840
forward last time and it was turned

5444
03:54:51,840 --> 03:54:57,359
down. So, if if it's a pre

5445
03:54:54,840 --> 03:54:59,359
pre-implementation summary, that's fine.

5446
03:54:57,359 --> 03:55:02,880
That's that's what I was hoping for in

5447
03:54:59,359 --> 03:55:05,680
the first place um last time. So, I will

5448
03:55:02,880 --> 03:55:08,880
support this motion as long as it

5449
03:55:05,680 --> 03:55:11,040
doesn't cause um additional too much

5450
03:55:08,880 --> 03:55:15,000
additional work for staff and that there

5451
03:55:11,040 --> 03:55:15,000
isn't a huge cost associated.

5452
03:55:15,439 --> 03:55:20,880
Counc Patterson. Uh thanks very much. I

5453
03:55:17,920 --> 03:55:24,080
I would assume as a consultant if they

5454
03:55:20,880 --> 03:55:27,040
felt that there was something wrong with

5455
03:55:24,080 --> 03:55:28,479
what we were asking for that they would

5456
03:55:27,040 --> 03:55:31,439
actually come and tell us. If they're

5457
03:55:28,479 --> 03:55:32,800
any any sort of a consultant, they're

5458
03:55:31,439 --> 03:55:34,800
going to come back and tell us. So, I'm

5459
03:55:32,800 --> 03:55:37,279
not sure if this is actually needed

5460
03:55:34,800 --> 03:55:39,920
because my assumption would be that this

5461
03:55:37,279 --> 03:55:42,080
consultant, if they're worth their

5462
03:55:39,920 --> 03:55:43,439
weight um and the money that we're

5463
03:55:42,080 --> 03:55:45,600
paying them, will actually come back and

5464
03:55:43,439 --> 03:55:47,520
say to us, "No, you're making a mistake.

5465
03:55:45,600 --> 03:55:50,000
This is a safety issue and you need to

5466
03:55:47,520 --> 03:55:52,000
keep this in. So I I have trouble with

5467
03:55:50,000 --> 03:55:53,920
this motion.

5468
03:55:52,000 --> 03:55:57,600
Councelor Patterson.

5469
03:55:53,920 --> 03:55:59,520
Yes, Mayor. Um, thank you. Uh, yes, I I

5470
03:55:57,600 --> 03:56:01,359
agree with Councelor Braithwood. I don't

5471
03:55:59,520 --> 03:56:03,520
want a summary of what's wrong with it

5472
03:56:01,359 --> 03:56:05,840
from the consultant after they have

5473
03:56:03,520 --> 03:56:08,960
already designed it. If there are

5474
03:56:05,840 --> 03:56:13,000
problems with what we're proposing, then

5475
03:56:08,960 --> 03:56:16,319
I would um anticipate getting that

5476
03:56:13,000 --> 03:56:18,399
invance of them completing the design. I

5477
03:56:16,319 --> 03:56:20,560
don't think it is uh they they're

5478
03:56:18,399 --> 03:56:22,319
they're going to just design something

5479
03:56:20,560 --> 03:56:27,040
because they've been told to do it

5480
03:56:22,319 --> 03:56:29,040
without um giving us guidance um on that

5481
03:56:27,040 --> 03:56:30,560
and I so I I would expect they would be

5482
03:56:29,040 --> 03:56:33,680
back to staff very promptly on that.

5483
03:56:30,560 --> 03:56:34,960
officer Hilton.

5484
03:56:33,680 --> 03:56:36,239
Thank you, worship. And one of the

5485
03:56:34,960 --> 03:56:37,760
things that I've really heard really

5486
03:56:36,239 --> 03:56:40,000
clearly through this whole thing is what

5487
03:56:37,760 --> 03:56:41,680
I've been uh hoping to explain to folks

5488
03:56:40,000 --> 03:56:43,359
who have been concerned about the how

5489
03:56:41,680 --> 03:56:45,840
the design has been proceeding is is

5490
03:56:43,359 --> 03:56:48,880
that what is the main motion on the

5491
03:56:45,840 --> 03:56:51,040
table is to approve a 90% design and the

5492
03:56:48,880 --> 03:56:53,840
90% design is exactly that the type of

5493
03:56:51,040 --> 03:56:56,399
design that still allows for some type

5494
03:56:53,840 --> 03:56:58,640
of uh you know some type of critical

5495
03:56:56,399 --> 03:57:01,120
revision before implementation. So, I

5496
03:56:58,640 --> 03:57:03,520
find the motion on the floor reasonable

5497
03:57:01,120 --> 03:57:07,120
because I would like that that when that

5498
03:57:03,520 --> 03:57:08,880
90% design is reviewed for the final

5499
03:57:07,120 --> 03:57:10,960
time and is moved forward for

5500
03:57:08,880 --> 03:57:12,640
implementation, then any safety concerns

5501
03:57:10,960 --> 03:57:14,399
or anything that we haven't thought of

5502
03:57:12,640 --> 03:57:15,840
would be brought forward. And I hear the

5503
03:57:14,399 --> 03:57:17,760
comments about whether or not that

5504
03:57:15,840 --> 03:57:19,520
should be just done automatically. Maybe

5505
03:57:17,760 --> 03:57:21,199
it should, you know, maybe that's maybe

5506
03:57:19,520 --> 03:57:22,560
that's reasonable. I think it's still

5507
03:57:21,199 --> 03:57:25,120
worthwhile providing direction from

5508
03:57:22,560 --> 03:57:27,199
council to evaluate that component in

5509
03:57:25,120 --> 03:57:30,399
specific because safety is the primary

5510
03:57:27,199 --> 03:57:32,640
issue here and have that be incorporated

5511
03:57:30,399 --> 03:57:35,120
before the design is finalized. So the

5512
03:57:32,640 --> 03:57:36,720
90% design allows us to do that and

5513
03:57:35,120 --> 03:57:38,560
allows us the flexibility to be able to

5514
03:57:36,720 --> 03:57:40,640
respond. So I think it's reasonable at

5515
03:57:38,560 --> 03:57:42,560
this stage.

5516
03:57:40,640 --> 03:57:44,520
Thank you. Um I am going to need a

5517
03:57:42,560 --> 03:57:47,279
motion to extend.

5518
03:57:44,520 --> 03:57:48,560
Um God. Okay. We're almost there. So,

5519
03:57:47,279 --> 03:57:49,920
I'm know I appreciate trusting

5520
03:57:48,560 --> 03:57:54,840
everybody's willingness to do this, but

5521
03:57:49,920 --> 03:57:56,720
we're we're at 90% 11 p.m. Moved and

5522
03:57:54,840 --> 03:57:59,359
seconded. Call the question. All those

5523
03:57:56,720 --> 03:58:01,439
in favor, please. Any opposed? None

5524
03:57:59,359 --> 03:58:03,840
opposed. Speaking very briefly to this,

5525
03:58:01,439 --> 03:58:06,479
um I appreciate the spirit by which this

5526
03:58:03,840 --> 03:58:09,199
motion is made. Uh I will say that the

5527
03:58:06,479 --> 03:58:12,800
wording of all of the motions has been

5528
03:58:09,199 --> 03:58:16,399
to direct revisions to staff to come

5529
03:58:12,800 --> 03:58:17,680
back with aspects of this. Um I the

5530
03:58:16,399 --> 03:58:20,000
wording there is to that have been

5531
03:58:17,680 --> 03:58:21,439
directed changes. I that that's piece of

5532
03:58:20,000 --> 03:58:23,120
it. The only piece of this I think that

5533
03:58:21,439 --> 03:58:25,199
really touches on that is the is the

5534
03:58:23,120 --> 03:58:27,439
consideration of removal of speed humps.

5535
03:58:25,199 --> 03:58:29,120
I would prefer that that be dealt with

5536
03:58:27,439 --> 03:58:31,600
as we talked about which is the motion

5537
03:58:29,120 --> 03:58:33,359
arising doing some follow on just review

5538
03:58:31,600 --> 03:58:35,120
to make sure that we could add those if

5539
03:58:33,359 --> 03:58:37,120
they're seeing that the the effects are

5540
03:58:35,120 --> 03:58:39,040
not meeting our expectations in terms of

5541
03:58:37,120 --> 03:58:40,800
slowing traffic and so forth. Everything

5542
03:58:39,040 --> 03:58:43,199
else is already going back to the staff

5543
03:58:40,800 --> 03:58:45,040
and consultants to ask them with very

5544
03:58:43,199 --> 03:58:46,720
high level guidance to make some changes

5545
03:58:45,040 --> 03:58:48,640
if they as they see necessary within

5546
03:58:46,720 --> 03:58:50,960
those and giving them guidelines. And I

5547
03:58:48,640 --> 03:58:52,479
I think you know we talked about that

5548
03:58:50,960 --> 03:58:54,160
the the problem with getting into

5549
03:58:52,479 --> 03:58:55,920
specificity. I think this is asking

5550
03:58:54,160 --> 03:58:57,840
asking for a report of safety concerns

5551
03:58:55,920 --> 03:59:00,319
is a is a strange one and because we've

5552
03:58:57,840 --> 03:59:02,479
asked them to design it with taking that

5553
03:59:00,319 --> 03:59:03,680
design and revising it with addressing

5554
03:59:02,479 --> 03:59:05,920
the concerns that have been raised at

5555
03:59:03,680 --> 03:59:08,479
this table uh and ideas raised at this

5556
03:59:05,920 --> 03:59:09,520
table and that design will come back. So

5557
03:59:08,479 --> 03:59:10,880
um they would essentially you're

5558
03:59:09,520 --> 03:59:13,040
essentially asking a consultant to come

5559
03:59:10,880 --> 03:59:14,800
back with a design that's flawed that

5560
03:59:13,040 --> 03:59:17,279
they're going to have to make a report

5561
03:59:14,800 --> 03:59:18,720
to report back on it. So you know my I

5562
03:59:17,279 --> 03:59:20,720
take the point that I think the the

5563
03:59:18,720 --> 03:59:22,479
primary concern here is does that uh

5564
03:59:20,720 --> 03:59:24,000
sign approve of some of the speed humps

5565
03:59:22,479 --> 03:59:26,479
impacted. I think that's a better as as

5566
03:59:24,000 --> 03:59:27,920
a post analysis than a pre-analysis. So

5567
03:59:26,479 --> 03:59:29,920
I can't support the motion as it is

5568
03:59:27,920 --> 03:59:31,760
here. I again I support I understand the

5569
03:59:29,920 --> 03:59:33,359
the rationale for it. I just think it's

5570
03:59:31,760 --> 03:59:35,359
it's it's backwards if we've done our

5571
03:59:33,359 --> 03:59:37,520
job here of directing staff uh which is

5572
03:59:35,359 --> 03:59:39,600
I think what we tried to do. Yeah, go

5573
03:59:37,520 --> 03:59:41,279
ahead. Councelor Swarm. I have question

5574
03:59:39,600 --> 03:59:44,239
through you mayor to to staff. Will the

5575
03:59:41,279 --> 03:59:47,359
consultant be present um so that we can

5576
03:59:44,239 --> 03:59:50,880
ask these types of questions when the

5577
03:59:47,359 --> 03:59:52,399
new design is presented?

5578
03:59:50,880 --> 03:59:54,160
Renick,

5579
03:59:52,399 --> 03:59:56,800
uh through the mayor. That has not

5580
03:59:54,160 --> 03:59:58,239
typically been our approach on these

5581
03:59:56,800 --> 03:59:59,840
projects. However, if that's something

5582
03:59:58,239 --> 04:00:01,680
that council would like us to do, we

5583
03:59:59,840 --> 04:00:04,080
could certainly arrange that with the

5584
04:00:01,680 --> 04:00:06,080
consultant.

5585
04:00:04,080 --> 04:00:08,160
I think having them available online if

5586
04:00:06,080 --> 04:00:09,399
possible would be helpful to just uh

5587
04:00:08,160 --> 04:00:11,359
answer

5588
04:00:09,399 --> 04:00:13,160
questions. That's the general will of

5589
04:00:11,359 --> 04:00:16,160
the council. I don't

5590
04:00:13,160 --> 04:00:18,040
don't council smart.

5591
04:00:16,160 --> 04:00:22,239
Yeah. I I I just I

5592
04:00:18,040 --> 04:00:24,479
I just need to be able to have either a

5593
04:00:22,239 --> 04:00:26,560
report or at least a conversation when

5594
04:00:24,479 --> 04:00:28,720
this design comes back so that I feel

5595
04:00:26,560 --> 04:00:31,439
comfortable that I understand any

5596
04:00:28,720 --> 04:00:33,520
unintended consequences of of all the

5597
04:00:31,439 --> 04:00:35,199
different things that we've put on the

5598
04:00:33,520 --> 04:00:37,760
table here. I need to be able to have

5599
04:00:35,199 --> 04:00:39,560
that conversation. So, I was trying to

5600
04:00:37,760 --> 04:00:41,920
make it um

5601
04:00:39,560 --> 04:00:43,520
um I thought the least amount of work by

5602
04:00:41,920 --> 04:00:45,040
just having them provide a summary, but

5603
04:00:43,520 --> 04:00:46,399
um it would be even better if the

5604
04:00:45,040 --> 04:00:48,479
consultant was present and we could just

5605
04:00:46,399 --> 04:00:50,319
have that conversation. Either way, I

5606
04:00:48,479 --> 04:00:53,199
just need the information um so that I

5607
04:00:50,319 --> 04:00:55,040
can sleep at night.

5608
04:00:53,199 --> 04:00:57,080
Appreciate that. Motion on the floor

5609
04:00:55,040 --> 04:00:59,120
right now is asking for the

5610
04:00:57,080 --> 04:01:00,479
report. Don't see any other hand. I'm

5611
04:00:59,120 --> 04:01:01,920
going to call the question to on the

5612
04:01:00,479 --> 04:01:03,920
motion is to basically provide a summary

5613
04:01:01,920 --> 04:01:05,359
of safety concerns resulting from the

5614
04:01:03,920 --> 04:01:09,439
directed changes. It's the late

5615
04:01:05,359 --> 04:01:13,199
language. Uh all those in favor

5616
04:01:09,439 --> 04:01:15,680
uh and opposed councelor Patterson Raith

5617
04:01:13,199 --> 04:01:18,000
and myself opposed that carries. So that

5618
04:01:15,680 --> 04:01:20,600
report will come back with the with the

5619
04:01:18,000 --> 04:01:24,239
piece. Any other motions

5620
04:01:20,600 --> 04:01:26,239
arising? Councelor Patterson. Yes. Um I

5621
04:01:24,239 --> 04:01:28,080
propose to that we undertake

5622
04:01:26,239 --> 04:01:30,479
transportation network development

5623
04:01:28,080 --> 04:01:33,359
public engagement uh process and

5624
04:01:30,479 --> 04:01:36,000
accessibility advisory committee review

5625
04:01:33,359 --> 04:01:38,160
of the proposed uh design. And when it

5626
04:01:36,000 --> 04:01:40,239
comes back, I'm going to take it as a

5627
04:01:38,160 --> 04:01:42,359
motion arising after the piece. So, I'm

5628
04:01:40,239 --> 04:01:44,800
going to right now we have a motion as

5629
04:01:42,359 --> 04:01:46,640
amended. If passed, it will go back to

5630
04:01:44,800 --> 04:01:48,920
staff with design changes and come back

5631
04:01:46,640 --> 04:01:51,840
to this table for

5632
04:01:48,920 --> 04:01:53,279
consideration. So, we have a 90% design.

5633
04:01:51,840 --> 04:01:55,359
We've made motions here to make

5634
04:01:53,279 --> 04:01:57,760
amendments to it to address concerns

5635
04:01:55,359 --> 04:02:00,319
heard and raise at the table uh and

5636
04:01:57,760 --> 04:02:02,080
ideas and it's now in it's where it is.

5637
04:02:00,319 --> 04:02:04,399
So at this point, this is sort of the

5638
04:02:02,080 --> 04:02:06,319
does the council have the interest in in

5639
04:02:04,399 --> 04:02:08,720
sending this forward at this point uh to

5640
04:02:06,319 --> 04:02:09,760
receive the uh the design back again. So

5641
04:02:08,720 --> 04:02:12,600
I'm going to call the question on the

5642
04:02:09,760 --> 04:02:15,600
main motion as amended. All those in

5643
04:02:12,600 --> 04:02:18,520
favor? Any opposed? None opposed? That

5644
04:02:15,600 --> 04:02:20,720
carries. Crazy.

5645
04:02:18,520 --> 04:02:22,000
Um so now we had a couple motions

5646
04:02:20,720 --> 04:02:25,439
arising. I want to get to them quickly.

5647
04:02:22,000 --> 04:02:27,920
Councelor uh Patterson. Yes, mayor.

5648
04:02:25,439 --> 04:02:29,760
Thank you. Um I would propo I would make

5649
04:02:27,920 --> 04:02:31,520
a motion that we undertake

5650
04:02:29,760 --> 04:02:33,279
transportation network development

5651
04:02:31,520 --> 04:02:36,080
public engagement process and

5652
04:02:33,279 --> 04:02:40,319
accessibility advisory committee review

5653
04:02:36,080 --> 04:02:41,600
of the uh revised plan.

5654
04:02:40,319 --> 04:02:42,800
Can you say that in plain language

5655
04:02:41,600 --> 04:02:46,960
because we understand what you're asking

5656
04:02:42,800 --> 04:02:50,000
for? Uh yes, basically this this is the

5657
04:02:46,960 --> 04:02:51,840
this is would mirror what we um as a

5658
04:02:50,000 --> 04:02:53,920
council have decided we would undertake

5659
04:02:51,840 --> 04:02:56,319
for all of the other cycling routes when

5660
04:02:53,920 --> 04:02:58,960
they come forward. We have already had a

5661
04:02:56,319 --> 04:03:03,760
lot of public input on this. So, it it

5662
04:02:58,960 --> 04:03:05,680
would be just um uh not soliciting uh an

5663
04:03:03,760 --> 04:03:08,239
extensive public engagement. Again,

5664
04:03:05,680 --> 04:03:10,239
we've already got that, but uh more of a

5665
04:03:08,239 --> 04:03:12,080
check-in with them so that the the

5666
04:03:10,239 --> 04:03:16,000
public that that will be impacted by

5667
04:03:12,080 --> 04:03:19,040
this are actually um engaged uh actively

5668
04:03:16,000 --> 04:03:21,880
in the process and that the it also be

5669
04:03:19,040 --> 04:03:24,160
referred to the accessibility advisory

5670
04:03:21,880 --> 04:03:27,359
committee because right now it is still

5671
04:03:24,160 --> 04:03:30,560
presented as a um a cycling rather than

5672
04:03:27,359 --> 04:03:31,920
a shared pathway. But um Okay. Thank

5673
04:03:30,560 --> 04:03:32,960
you. I'm just going to cut you. There's

5674
04:03:31,920 --> 04:03:34,800
a there's a motion. I'm going to ask

5675
04:03:32,960 --> 04:03:36,800
that we sever those two motions though.

5676
04:03:34,800 --> 04:03:39,040
So I'm going to take the first one to

5677
04:03:36,800 --> 04:03:41,040
take your motion as that the revised

5678
04:03:39,040 --> 04:03:43,840
design be shared with the accessibility

5679
04:03:41,040 --> 04:03:46,560
advisory committee. Is there a second

5680
04:03:43,840 --> 04:03:49,960
for that? Any discussion on that?

5681
04:03:46,560 --> 04:03:52,880
Councelor Smart. Um

5682
04:03:49,960 --> 04:03:54,880
apolog we're going to send the current

5683
04:03:52,880 --> 04:03:57,520
design as it is now or the revised

5684
04:03:54,880 --> 04:03:59,399
design once we receive it. You're saying

5685
04:03:57,520 --> 04:04:02,160
it's the revised design. The

5686
04:03:59,399 --> 04:04:04,000
revised smart. Okay. Thanks. I I don't

5687
04:04:02,160 --> 04:04:05,520
think I will be supporting the motion

5688
04:04:04,000 --> 04:04:09,279
because I actually think we need to

5689
04:04:05,520 --> 04:04:11,279
engage them now. Um um and get that

5690
04:04:09,279 --> 04:04:13,760
input as early as possible to actually

5691
04:04:11,279 --> 04:04:18,640
take any comments to put forward into

5692
04:04:13,760 --> 04:04:21,680
this design revision. Um Josh Pson.

5693
04:04:18,640 --> 04:04:23,520
Yeah. No, I I appreciate that comment.

5694
04:04:21,680 --> 04:04:25,359
The only thing is if we send it to them

5695
04:04:23,520 --> 04:04:26,960
now and we get their input, they they

5696
04:04:25,359 --> 04:04:29,920
will actually be giving input on

5697
04:04:26,960 --> 04:04:32,720
something that's going to change. So uh

5698
04:04:29,920 --> 04:04:34,720
that is difficult and and unfortunately

5699
04:04:32,720 --> 04:04:37,120
this is the way this process has had

5700
04:04:34,720 --> 04:04:40,720
rolled out. If we in in fact had

5701
04:04:37,120 --> 04:04:43,040
undertaken the the advisory the the

5702
04:04:40,720 --> 04:04:45,199
accessibility advisory committee review

5703
04:04:43,040 --> 04:04:49,840
earlier on it would have certainly

5704
04:04:45,199 --> 04:04:52,920
benefited this uh uh but we haven't. And

5705
04:04:49,840 --> 04:04:55,680
so to have them

5706
04:04:52,920 --> 04:04:57,760
uh you know and and perhaps this is a

5707
04:04:55,680 --> 04:05:00,160
matter that staff could comment on but

5708
04:04:57,760 --> 04:05:02,080
to have them uh gather as a group and

5709
04:05:00,160 --> 04:05:05,600
comment on what is before them when it's

5710
04:05:02,080 --> 04:05:07,439
going to change uh unless we can provide

5711
04:05:05,600 --> 04:05:09,840
some guidance for them on how that is

5712
04:05:07,439 --> 04:05:12,399
going to change. I think it will be um

5713
04:05:09,840 --> 04:05:14,800
more difficult to get input from them

5714
04:05:12,399 --> 04:05:16,720
particularly on things like that uh the

5715
04:05:14,800 --> 04:05:19,120
caric trail portion of it. I don't know

5716
04:05:16,720 --> 04:05:21,600
how they they will comment on what is on

5717
04:05:19,120 --> 04:05:23,680
the drawings now if it's going to change

5718
04:05:21,600 --> 04:05:26,080
and but I still think that their input

5719
04:05:23,680 --> 04:05:27,279
is important.

5720
04:05:26,080 --> 04:05:28,720
Thank you councelor Patterson and

5721
04:05:27,279 --> 04:05:30,319
councelor Smart. So the motion on the

5722
04:05:28,720 --> 04:05:32,000
floor right now is to refer it the

5723
04:05:30,319 --> 04:05:34,479
revised design to the accessibility

5724
04:05:32,000 --> 04:05:36,560
committee. Councelor Smart. Yeah thank

5725
04:05:34,479 --> 04:05:38,720
you. I will support the motion, but I

5726
04:05:36,560 --> 04:05:40,319
would have had a preference for having

5727
04:05:38,720 --> 04:05:43,199
the conversation now because I think

5728
04:05:40,319 --> 04:05:45,760
that they there's a likelihood that they

5729
04:05:43,199 --> 04:05:47,600
could provide some, you know, general um

5730
04:05:45,760 --> 04:05:50,800
input and advice that could impact the

5731
04:05:47,600 --> 04:05:52,800
current design.

5732
04:05:50,800 --> 04:05:54,800
Okay. The motion right now is to refer

5733
04:05:52,800 --> 04:05:55,840
the revised design. So, just looking

5734
04:05:54,800 --> 04:05:58,080
around the table. I don't see other

5735
04:05:55,840 --> 04:06:00,319
hands popping up. Councelor Patterson.

5736
04:05:58,080 --> 04:06:02,960
Yes, Mayor. I did also add in that

5737
04:06:00,319 --> 04:06:05,840
comment that perhaps we could um you

5738
04:06:02,960 --> 04:06:07,920
know ask staff if they're um if they

5739
04:06:05,840 --> 04:06:10,160
have any advice for how they could go

5740
04:06:07,920 --> 04:06:12,239
forward in presenting this to the

5741
04:06:10,160 --> 04:06:15,120
accessibility committee in a way that

5742
04:06:12,239 --> 04:06:18,479
would actually get meaningful input from

5743
04:06:15,120 --> 04:06:20,239
them without having before them what is

5744
04:06:18,479 --> 04:06:22,560
planned.

5745
04:06:20,239 --> 04:06:24,960
Sure. I might turn to staff and ask that

5746
04:06:22,560 --> 04:06:29,199
question. Mr. Renick. Yes. Thank you

5747
04:06:24,960 --> 04:06:31,680
very much um Mr. Mayor for the question.

5748
04:06:29,199 --> 04:06:34,319
This is a very large piece of work to

5749
04:06:31,680 --> 04:06:37,800
refer to the accessibility advisory

5750
04:06:34,319 --> 04:06:40,720
committee and I think that it would

5751
04:06:37,800 --> 04:06:42,800
be I wouldn't want to presuppose how

5752
04:06:40,720 --> 04:06:44,239
best to present it to them and I would

5753
04:06:42,800 --> 04:06:46,399
be concerned that that might be

5754
04:06:44,239 --> 04:06:48,800
something that would require consultant

5755
04:06:46,399 --> 04:06:51,359
facilitation to ensure that that group

5756
04:06:48,800 --> 04:06:54,840
is able to engage um in the most

5757
04:06:51,359 --> 04:06:54,840
effective manner.

5758
04:06:55,199 --> 04:07:01,760
Council Patterson. No. Okay. Um motion

5759
04:06:58,239 --> 04:07:03,760
is on the floor right now. Um with that

5760
04:07:01,760 --> 04:07:06,880
wave of a of a flag that it might it

5761
04:07:03,760 --> 04:07:08,720
might create some some chaos. Um go

5762
04:07:06,880 --> 04:07:10,640
ahead council Watson. If I could just

5763
04:07:08,720 --> 04:07:13,279
speak to that as the council leazison to

5764
04:07:10,640 --> 04:07:16,080
that group. Um I think that Mr. Renick's

5765
04:07:13,279 --> 04:07:17,840
assessment is a fair one. um that in

5766
04:07:16,080 --> 04:07:19,600
developing for example the first piece

5767
04:07:17,840 --> 04:07:22,319
of work they've had to do they were

5768
04:07:19,600 --> 04:07:25,840
guided through that whole process um

5769
04:07:22,319 --> 04:07:27,680
really um uh considerately by a seasoned

5770
04:07:25,840 --> 04:07:29,520
group of consultants over a much

5771
04:07:27,680 --> 04:07:33,520
narrower range of things. This is a

5772
04:07:29,520 --> 04:07:36,720
highly technical topic um and uh to

5773
04:07:33,520 --> 04:07:38,720
actually get that feedback in a in a a

5774
04:07:36,720 --> 04:07:40,560
constructive way I think would take a

5775
04:07:38,720 --> 04:07:42,560
fair bit of resources. So we we should

5776
04:07:40,560 --> 04:07:44,000
think about that.

5777
04:07:42,560 --> 04:07:45,760
I might make a suggestion, council

5778
04:07:44,000 --> 04:07:48,880
Patterson, that maybe the the motion be

5779
04:07:45,760 --> 04:07:51,920
revised just to to ask uh staff to come

5780
04:07:48,880 --> 04:07:53,199
back with with options for engaging them

5781
04:07:51,920 --> 04:07:54,080
because I think at this point what we're

5782
04:07:53,199 --> 04:07:55,439
hearing is that there might be some

5783
04:07:54,080 --> 04:07:57,199
complex more complexity to this

5784
04:07:55,439 --> 04:07:59,600
originally thought. Yes, thank you,

5785
04:07:57,199 --> 04:08:01,439
mayor. And I realize that this is um

5786
04:07:59,600 --> 04:08:03,840
this is a large package and I don't

5787
04:08:01,439 --> 04:08:05,920
expect that they would engage on in all

5788
04:08:03,840 --> 04:08:08,160
components of it, but certainly things

5789
04:08:05,920 --> 04:08:10,880
like pedestrian crosswalks and whatnot

5790
04:08:08,160 --> 04:08:12,000
could be in involved. So yes, I if if

5791
04:08:10,880 --> 04:08:14,399
staff could come back with a

5792
04:08:12,000 --> 04:08:18,640
recommendation on how best to engage

5793
04:08:14,399 --> 04:08:20,160
them um that that would uh satisfy my

5794
04:08:18,640 --> 04:08:22,000
intent.

5795
04:08:20,160 --> 04:08:24,720
Second or amendable to that? I think

5796
04:08:22,000 --> 04:08:24,720
that was uh

5797
04:08:24,840 --> 04:08:29,840
councly revised motion on the table. Now

5798
04:08:27,439 --> 04:08:31,920
go ahead council. Thank you worship and

5799
04:08:29,840 --> 04:08:33,520
and supportive of the intent here. The

5800
04:08:31,920 --> 04:08:35,680
typical, as I would understand it, the

5801
04:08:33,520 --> 04:08:36,960
typical mechanism that we would go

5802
04:08:35,680 --> 04:08:38,000
through with staff in this type of

5803
04:08:36,960 --> 04:08:39,319
situation where there's a resource

5804
04:08:38,000 --> 04:08:42,720
implication would be a project

5805
04:08:39,319 --> 04:08:44,319
backgrounder. So I would uh be more in

5806
04:08:42,720 --> 04:08:46,239
support of this if the direction to

5807
04:08:44,319 --> 04:08:47,920
staff was to prepare a project

5808
04:08:46,239 --> 04:08:50,560
backgrounder, which of course includes

5809
04:08:47,920 --> 04:08:52,560
an options analysis for how we might do

5810
04:08:50,560 --> 04:08:54,399
this work. And I'm I'm interested in how

5811
04:08:52,560 --> 04:08:56,800
the work might be done, but I do see a

5812
04:08:54,399 --> 04:08:58,720
resource implication. So our typical

5813
04:08:56,800 --> 04:09:00,080
process is the project backgrounder. So

5814
04:08:58,720 --> 04:09:01,439
I might suggest to the mover that the

5815
04:09:00,080 --> 04:09:03,279
project backgrounder might be the way

5816
04:09:01,439 --> 04:09:05,600
forward.

5817
04:09:03,279 --> 04:09:07,279
Sure. I'm I'm the way I took this was an

5818
04:09:05,600 --> 04:09:09,120
ask of this and that the implications of

5819
04:09:07,279 --> 04:09:12,080
different approaches would include staff

5820
04:09:09,120 --> 04:09:13,920
implications, but um I'll turn to to uh

5821
04:09:12,080 --> 04:09:16,720
our CEO and director of engineering. Is

5822
04:09:13,920 --> 04:09:18,720
there a is there a preferred language

5823
04:09:16,720 --> 04:09:20,080
that you would like on this one? I think

5824
04:09:18,720 --> 04:09:21,279
I think trying to keep this as vague as

5825
04:09:20,080 --> 04:09:23,199
possible at this point. We kind of come

5826
04:09:21,279 --> 04:09:25,120
back with with your with some options is

5827
04:09:23,199 --> 04:09:27,199
best. But go ahead, Mr. Renick. Uh thank

5828
04:09:25,120 --> 04:09:30,160
you very much, Mr. Mayor. I actually I

5829
04:09:27,199 --> 04:09:32,080
had another suggestion um which is that

5830
04:09:30,160 --> 04:09:33,840
I think the intent that council is

5831
04:09:32,080 --> 04:09:36,560
looking for is to understand the

5832
04:09:33,840 --> 04:09:39,279
accessibility features that are being

5833
04:09:36,560 --> 04:09:41,120
included in the design and given that we

5834
04:09:39,279 --> 04:09:43,439
are requesting commentary from the

5835
04:09:41,120 --> 04:09:45,760
consultant perhaps it would be amendable

5836
04:09:43,439 --> 04:09:48,640
to council to have a specific commentary

5837
04:09:45,760 --> 04:09:50,560
from the design consultant on what

5838
04:09:48,640 --> 04:09:55,160
accessibility features have been

5839
04:09:50,560 --> 04:09:55,160
incorporated into the design.

5840
04:09:56,640 --> 04:10:01,279
I'll move wishes a change. I'll take

5841
04:09:58,720 --> 04:10:03,439
that. Go ahead, counselor Green. Thank

5842
04:10:01,279 --> 04:10:06,080
you for that through you to Mr. Renick.

5843
04:10:03,439 --> 04:10:08,800
I'm I'm just wondering though where

5844
04:10:06,080 --> 04:10:12,720
where it would be specifically important

5845
04:10:08,800 --> 04:10:14,640
is on on parking reduction. So if if

5846
04:10:12,720 --> 04:10:16,640
because that would be a disability issue

5847
04:10:14,640 --> 04:10:21,080
potentially potentially. So hopefully

5848
04:10:16,640 --> 04:10:21,080
that could be included. Thank you.

5849
04:10:21,600 --> 04:10:25,760
At this point, we just have our the

5850
04:10:23,120 --> 04:10:27,439
motion is to ask staff for options for

5851
04:10:25,760 --> 04:10:29,359
engagement with the accessibility

5852
04:10:27,439 --> 04:10:32,399
committee. So, that's where we're

5853
04:10:29,359 --> 04:10:34,000
sitting. So, take the comment as is. Um,

5854
04:10:32,399 --> 04:10:35,880
it is moved and seconded. Any other

5855
04:10:34,000 --> 04:10:38,239
discussion on the

5856
04:10:35,880 --> 04:10:39,840
motion? I'm just going to say my two

5857
04:10:38,239 --> 04:10:42,160
cents here. I'm supportive of the

5858
04:10:39,840 --> 04:10:43,760
motion, but I do think I'm hoping it's

5859
04:10:42,160 --> 04:10:45,680
just it's kind of to councelor Pat

5860
04:10:43,760 --> 04:10:47,279
Appleton's point, a very short report

5861
04:10:45,680 --> 04:10:49,600
saying here's a couple of ways we could

5862
04:10:47,279 --> 04:10:51,680
engage them with, you know, but here's

5863
04:10:49,600 --> 04:10:54,479
the staff impact and and and and some

5864
04:10:51,680 --> 04:10:56,319
other potential approaches. Um, and

5865
04:10:54,479 --> 04:10:58,000
maybe that might be that they the

5866
04:10:56,319 --> 04:11:00,239
consultant lays out the accessibility

5867
04:10:58,000 --> 04:11:02,319
features and maybe that list is shared

5868
04:11:00,239 --> 04:11:04,080
with accessibility for as an example.

5869
04:11:02,319 --> 04:11:05,520
But I think what I'm hearing right now

5870
04:11:04,080 --> 04:11:07,040
is like let's get something back short

5871
04:11:05,520 --> 04:11:08,239
that gives us some idea of the impact

5872
04:11:07,040 --> 04:11:09,680
and then we can make some decisions

5873
04:11:08,239 --> 04:11:11,439
about how we want to engage at that

5874
04:11:09,680 --> 04:11:13,120
point. I'm seeing nods around the table.

5875
04:11:11,439 --> 04:11:14,399
So I think if that's if that's the

5876
04:11:13,120 --> 04:11:17,040
intention here then I'm supportive of

5877
04:11:14,399 --> 04:11:19,840
it. Okay. Any other discussion on the

5878
04:11:17,040 --> 04:11:21,600
motion? All those in favor? Any opposed?

5879
04:11:19,840 --> 04:11:23,840
None opposed? You had a second one which

5880
04:11:21,600 --> 04:11:24,960
was just as little I know I'm going to

5881
04:11:23,840 --> 04:11:28,960
try and get this done very quickly.

5882
04:11:24,960 --> 04:11:31,040
Yeah. and and that was also to um uh get

5883
04:11:28,960 --> 04:11:34,239
a recommendation from staff on how we

5884
04:11:31,040 --> 04:11:36,080
can undertake um the uh some public

5885
04:11:34,239 --> 04:11:40,279
engagement on the revised drawing

5886
04:11:36,080 --> 04:11:40,279
package when it comes back.

5887
04:11:41,319 --> 04:11:47,359
Okay. So, just to ask staff if there's

5888
04:11:44,800 --> 04:11:50,000
in alignment with the other approach.

5889
04:11:47,359 --> 04:11:51,199
Okay. Um can you maybe just read aloud

5890
04:11:50,000 --> 04:11:53,279
your motion again because I just want to

5891
04:11:51,199 --> 04:11:56,640
make sure I'm clear.

5892
04:11:53,279 --> 04:11:56,640
Yeah. To um

5893
04:11:56,800 --> 04:12:02,479
request staff come back with a

5894
04:11:58,720 --> 04:12:06,560
recommendation for a method to undertake

5895
04:12:02,479 --> 04:12:09,520
um public engagement for the uh I'm

5896
04:12:06,560 --> 04:12:12,720
still calling it a cycling facility uh

5897
04:12:09,520 --> 04:12:16,120
redesign that comes back from the con uh

5898
04:12:12,720 --> 04:12:16,120
from the revisions.

5899
04:12:17,040 --> 04:12:22,000
Okay. Um is there a second for

5900
04:12:22,040 --> 04:12:26,800
that smart seconding? Okay. With

5901
04:12:27,479 --> 04:12:31,120
seconded. Yeah, I need if we're going to

5902
04:12:29,920 --> 04:12:33,600
consider this, we need to have a motion

5903
04:12:31,120 --> 04:12:36,319
to extend the meeting by another 15

5904
04:12:33,600 --> 04:12:38,080
minutes. So, motion to extend to 115.

5905
04:12:36,319 --> 04:12:39,120
Move and seconded. I'm not surpris

5906
04:12:38,080 --> 04:12:40,640
somebody at some point somebody's going

5907
04:12:39,120 --> 04:12:42,000
to drop off of this. I will say I think

5908
04:12:40,640 --> 04:12:43,840
we've gone through the main meat of this

5909
04:12:42,000 --> 04:12:46,080
meeting. So, if people have to leave, I

5910
04:12:43,840 --> 04:12:48,399
do appreciate that. Um motion on the

5911
04:12:46,080 --> 04:12:49,680
floor is to extend to 10 11:15. I'm

5912
04:12:48,399 --> 04:12:52,399
going to call the question on that. All

5913
04:12:49,680 --> 04:12:55,840
those in favor? Any opposed? Not

5914
04:12:52,399 --> 04:12:57,840
opposed. Okay. Uh, councelor Appleton,

5915
04:12:55,840 --> 04:13:00,159
question of clarification for the mover,

5916
04:12:57,840 --> 04:13:02,960
your worship. Uh, public engagement

5917
04:13:00,159 --> 04:13:04,800
takes is pretty broad. Um, so can I get

5918
04:13:02,960 --> 04:13:06,800
a sense of exactly what it is that we're

5919
04:13:04,800 --> 04:13:09,840
asking staff to do in terms of level of

5920
04:13:06,800 --> 04:13:12,080
engagement and in terms of scope?

5921
04:13:09,840 --> 04:13:16,080
I think I yeah what I what I am seeking

5922
04:13:12,080 --> 04:13:18,000
really is um uh greatly reduced public

5923
04:13:16,080 --> 04:13:20,399
engagement than what we would have

5924
04:13:18,000 --> 04:13:22,239
undertaken had we had we done it at the

5925
04:13:20,399 --> 04:13:23,760
start of this process because we've

5926
04:13:22,239 --> 04:13:26,399
already had a lot of feedback from the

5927
04:13:23,760 --> 04:13:29,279
public. In fact that is informing the

5928
04:13:26,399 --> 04:13:32,640
redesign that we are doing. Um and so

5929
04:13:29,279 --> 04:13:34,880
therefore I would still like to have uh

5930
04:13:32,640 --> 04:13:37,760
feedback from those who will be affected

5931
04:13:34,880 --> 04:13:39,920
by this on on what they see before them

5932
04:13:37,760 --> 04:13:44,399
in the redesign. I think that should be

5933
04:13:39,920 --> 04:13:46,720
a um an expedited process because we are

5934
04:13:44,399 --> 04:13:49,920
incorporating a lot of what we what we

5935
04:13:46,720 --> 04:13:52,640
have heard into these design elements.

5936
04:13:49,920 --> 04:13:55,439
So again, I'd like a a recommendation

5937
04:13:52,640 --> 04:13:58,159
from staff on how we might undertake

5938
04:13:55,439 --> 04:13:59,600
that process. Um if it got too

5939
04:13:58,159 --> 04:14:02,640
extensive, of course, then we would need

5940
04:13:59,600 --> 04:14:04,880
a project backgrounder. Uh but I'm

5941
04:14:02,640 --> 04:14:06,960
looking for uh a light touch on the

5942
04:14:04,880 --> 04:14:11,520
public engagement input into the

5943
04:14:06,960 --> 04:14:13,439
redesigned uh cycling route.

5944
04:14:11,520 --> 04:14:15,359
Thank you. I'm not sure I'm entirely

5945
04:14:13,439 --> 04:14:17,040
here yet, but go ahead, Councelor Smart.

5946
04:14:15,359 --> 04:14:20,239
Yeah, I think I I seconded this because

5947
04:14:17,040 --> 04:14:22,319
I think that we can improve on um

5948
04:14:20,239 --> 04:14:23,680
communicating the redesign to the public

5949
04:14:22,319 --> 04:14:26,800
and I know that there's so much interest

5950
04:14:23,680 --> 04:14:28,960
out there and I saw that open to what

5951
04:14:26,800 --> 04:14:31,760
staff comes back with but potentially

5952
04:14:28,960 --> 04:14:33,920
even having the consultant here in a

5953
04:14:31,760 --> 04:14:37,279
meeting walking through the drawings

5954
04:14:33,920 --> 04:14:39,600
clearly explaining the changes um could

5955
04:14:37,279 --> 04:14:41,040
really benefit not only us but the the

5956
04:14:39,600 --> 04:14:45,120
community and really understanding what

5957
04:14:41,040 --> 04:14:47,439
is a very um

5958
04:14:45,120 --> 04:14:51,040
thick drawing set for the average person

5959
04:14:47,439 --> 04:14:54,040
to digest and really understand. So, um

5960
04:14:51,040 --> 04:14:55,640
open to what it is, but I think that

5961
04:14:54,040 --> 04:14:58,479
definitely

5962
04:14:55,640 --> 04:15:00,000
communicating what these changes are um

5963
04:14:58,479 --> 04:15:01,840
is going to be really important this

5964
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:03,600
time around. So, I appreciate the

5965
04:15:01,840 --> 04:15:05,760
attention to making sure that that piece

5966
04:15:03,600 --> 04:15:08,720
is covered.

5967
04:15:05,760 --> 04:15:11,760
Okay. Thank you. Um I'll support the

5968
04:15:08,720 --> 04:15:13,359
motion. I my thought on this one is to

5969
04:15:11,760 --> 04:15:15,760
my mind what I'm hearing is sort of an

5970
04:15:13,359 --> 04:15:17,680
enhanced notification process so that we

5971
04:15:15,760 --> 04:15:20,000
make sure that people have a chance to

5972
04:15:17,680 --> 04:15:21,840
to read it provide feedback and that'll

5973
04:15:20,000 --> 04:15:23,359
help us inform that piece. I will point

5974
04:15:21,840 --> 04:15:25,520
out when this comes back it will be open

5975
04:15:23,359 --> 04:15:26,960
for public input. So that process is

5976
04:15:25,520 --> 04:15:30,000
there. So I think I'm hearing more about

5977
04:15:26,960 --> 04:15:31,520
a notification process if possible than

5978
04:15:30,000 --> 04:15:33,600
more than that. But go ahead councelor

5979
04:15:31,520 --> 04:15:35,760
smirk. Yeah thank you. And in addition

5980
04:15:33,600 --> 04:15:38,840
to notification, which I think is really

5981
04:15:35,760 --> 04:15:43,040
important, I I think actually walking

5982
04:15:38,840 --> 04:15:46,080
through the design um um with the like

5983
04:15:43,040 --> 04:15:47,840
having a a deeper presentation of of

5984
04:15:46,080 --> 04:15:52,000
what the changes have been and what the

5985
04:15:47,840 --> 04:15:55,680
whole route is could be really helpful.

5986
04:15:52,000 --> 04:15:58,080
All right. Um go ahead, Councelor Green.

5987
04:15:55,680 --> 04:16:01,600
This may pertain to my final motion

5988
04:15:58,080 --> 04:16:04,080
before we leave tonight, but um we have

5989
04:16:01,600 --> 04:16:05,920
heard over and over again the uh request

5990
04:16:04,080 --> 04:16:08,399
for some collaboration, opportunities

5991
04:16:05,920 --> 04:16:10,720
for collaboration and and consultation

5992
04:16:08,399 --> 04:16:13,040
and particularly on two and three on

5993
04:16:10,720 --> 04:16:14,359
those revisions. It involves a specific

5994
04:16:13,040 --> 04:16:16,399
neighborhood and they've asked for

5995
04:16:14,359 --> 04:16:18,080
collaboration time and time again. And

5996
04:16:16,399 --> 04:16:22,399
so I'm wondering if there is room to do

5997
04:16:18,080 --> 04:16:24,880
that in this um process for revisions

5998
04:16:22,399 --> 04:16:26,720
number two and number three which is

5999
04:16:24,880 --> 04:16:28,720
revise the design of Easttown Road, the

6000
04:16:26,720 --> 04:16:31,199
Easttown Hala intersection and Florence

6001
04:16:28,720 --> 04:16:33,760
Epworth and Halaine streets and revise

6002
04:16:31,199 --> 04:16:35,439
the design for the Henderson Trail Trail

6003
04:16:33,760 --> 04:16:37,760
also known as the Carrick Trail between

6004
04:16:35,439 --> 04:16:39,600
Halane and Newton. We have talked about

6005
04:16:37,760 --> 04:16:43,040
collaboration before. In fact, for the

6006
04:16:39,600 --> 04:16:45,840
other projects, Mayor, you actually

6007
04:16:43,040 --> 04:16:48,239
altered the um altered the wording from

6008
04:16:45,840 --> 04:16:50,239
inform to consult. So, I'm just

6009
04:16:48,239 --> 04:16:53,520
wondering on these two in particular

6010
04:16:50,239 --> 04:16:55,120
because there has been a request um time

6011
04:16:53,520 --> 04:16:57,120
and time again for some opportunities

6012
04:16:55,120 --> 04:16:59,359
for collaboration that if that could be

6013
04:16:57,120 --> 04:17:03,279
included in the motion. If not, I'll

6014
04:16:59,359 --> 04:17:04,800
make a separate motion. Thank you.

6015
04:17:03,279 --> 04:17:06,000
The mover is not indicating they want to

6016
04:17:04,800 --> 04:17:07,040
change. So, I'm going to take all the

6017
04:17:06,000 --> 04:17:08,319
question on the motion that's on the

6018
04:17:07,040 --> 04:17:10,560
floor and then we'll take a secondary

6019
04:17:08,319 --> 04:17:13,040
motion. Um, so the motion right now is

6020
04:17:10,560 --> 04:17:16,319
essentially refer to uh ask for staff

6021
04:17:13,040 --> 04:17:18,000
input on ways that we can um I guess

6022
04:17:16,319 --> 04:17:19,159
improve awareness of the of the this

6023
04:17:18,000 --> 04:17:21,760
when it comes

6024
04:17:19,159 --> 04:17:23,040
back. Council, does do we have a motion?

6025
04:17:21,760 --> 04:17:24,000
Does staff have a motion they can read

6026
04:17:23,040 --> 04:17:25,040
back? I'm just want to make sure that

6027
04:17:24,000 --> 04:17:26,720
we're clear about what we're asking

6028
04:17:25,040 --> 04:17:28,399
because this has a the risk I think has

6029
04:17:26,720 --> 04:17:29,680
been flagged of being a very big ask or

6030
04:17:28,399 --> 04:17:31,439
a very small ask. And I want to make

6031
04:17:29,680 --> 04:17:33,120
sure that we're we're I'm hearing the

6032
04:17:31,439 --> 04:17:34,319
intent to make keep it a small ask, but

6033
04:17:33,120 --> 04:17:37,120
I want to make sure that the wording is

6034
04:17:34,319 --> 04:17:38,800
supportive of that. Uh thank you, Mr.

6035
04:17:37,120 --> 04:17:41,040
Mayor. The wording that I have is that

6036
04:17:38,800 --> 04:17:43,279
staff be directed to come back with

6037
04:17:41,040 --> 04:17:46,000
recommendations for a method to

6038
04:17:43,279 --> 04:17:49,199
undertake public engagement on the

6039
04:17:46,000 --> 04:17:53,600
proposed design.

6040
04:17:49,199 --> 04:17:56,000
Yeah, I'm sorry. On the revised design.

6041
04:17:53,600 --> 04:17:57,760
Okay. I'm still hearing that that's a

6042
04:17:56,000 --> 04:17:59,840
Yeah. Okay. So, bring back options for

6043
04:17:57,760 --> 04:18:01,439
that is is piece. So, we're not we're

6044
04:17:59,840 --> 04:18:03,159
not directing it. We're asking for just

6045
04:18:01,439 --> 04:18:06,800
what those options might

6046
04:18:03,159 --> 04:18:07,920
be. All right. Uh I'm going to call the

6047
04:18:06,800 --> 04:18:09,640
question then. Not seeing any other

6048
04:18:07,920 --> 04:18:12,319
hands. All those in

6049
04:18:09,640 --> 04:18:14,159
favor? Hesitant, but in favor as well.

6050
04:18:12,319 --> 04:18:15,760
Um okay, I think that's it. Councelor

6051
04:18:14,159 --> 04:18:17,600
Green, you said you had one more motion.

6052
04:18:15,760 --> 04:18:20,239
I have a final motion arising and that

6053
04:18:17,600 --> 04:18:22,960
was to seek opportunities for

6054
04:18:20,239 --> 04:18:26,880
collaboration on revisions number two

6055
04:18:22,960 --> 04:18:28,720
and number three uh as presented with

6056
04:18:26,880 --> 04:18:30,960
the most impacted neighborhood which is

6057
04:18:28,720 --> 04:18:33,520
the cheffy neighborhood and the people

6058
04:18:30,960 --> 04:18:35,279
that live on those streets. So um I know

6059
04:18:33,520 --> 04:18:38,000
this has been an ongoing request for

6060
04:18:35,279 --> 04:18:40,479
some opportunities for collaboration um

6061
04:18:38,000 --> 04:18:43,760
and I think some of the feedback we've

6062
04:18:40,479 --> 04:18:47,359
had has been helpful um to all of us.

6063
04:18:43,760 --> 04:18:50,000
So, I'm hoping that that can be um

6064
04:18:47,359 --> 04:18:51,439
something that is is worked out with

6065
04:18:50,000 --> 04:18:53,040
second before we start motivating too

6066
04:18:51,439 --> 04:18:56,000
far into this. Seconded. Okay. No, it's

6067
04:18:53,040 --> 04:18:57,439
seconded. Go ahead. Is it seconded? Yes.

6068
04:18:56,000 --> 04:19:00,560
I I you know, I don't think I need to

6069
04:18:57,439 --> 04:19:02,239
motivate too strongly. I think that um a

6070
04:19:00,560 --> 04:19:04,159
number of residents have spoken to us

6071
04:19:02,239 --> 04:19:06,880
and and and want to help and want to

6072
04:19:04,159 --> 04:19:09,279
collaborate on the impacts on their own

6073
04:19:06,880 --> 04:19:11,520
in their own neighborhood. And I think

6074
04:19:09,279 --> 04:19:15,040
items two and three involve the greatest

6075
04:19:11,520 --> 04:19:15,040
impacts on residents.

6076
04:19:15,520 --> 04:19:19,399
Thank you, Councelor Green. Motion is

6077
04:19:17,920 --> 04:19:21,680
live on the

6078
04:19:19,399 --> 04:19:24,080
floor. Not seeing anybody speaking to

6079
04:19:21,680 --> 04:19:27,680
it. I'm just going to speak and weirdly

6080
04:19:24,080 --> 04:19:29,520
in opposition to the motion. Um and and

6081
04:19:27,680 --> 04:19:30,880
I'll lay out my my argument for this

6082
04:19:29,520 --> 04:19:33,040
because on the face of it, it makes a

6083
04:19:30,880 --> 04:19:36,399
lot of sense. But I think we have a

6084
04:19:33,040 --> 04:19:39,600
process that is uh quite intentional to

6085
04:19:36,399 --> 04:19:42,640
guide our decision-m and that is we ask

6086
04:19:39,600 --> 04:19:46,399
that uh staff provide their technical

6087
04:19:42,640 --> 04:19:48,319
advice on these pieces. Um and we as a

6088
04:19:46,399 --> 04:19:50,680
council consider those that advice along

6089
04:19:48,319 --> 04:19:55,279
with input from the community and other

6090
04:19:50,680 --> 04:19:59,439
sources. And so we uh in in undertaking

6091
04:19:55,279 --> 04:20:01,279
that process um what we've taken I think

6092
04:19:59,439 --> 04:20:02,880
staff have done a walkthrough with with

6093
04:20:01,279 --> 04:20:04,239
this with the community. We've heard

6094
04:20:02,880 --> 04:20:07,359
loud and clear through much of the

6095
04:20:04,239 --> 04:20:08,880
interfaces what should guide that. Um

6096
04:20:07,359 --> 04:20:10,000
there's nothing stopping them from from

6097
04:20:08,880 --> 04:20:11,199
doing that. If there's a specific

6098
04:20:10,000 --> 04:20:13,199
question to go and speak with the

6099
04:20:11,199 --> 04:20:15,600
neighborhood on that but I don't think

6100
04:20:13,199 --> 04:20:16,479
this is a if we're going to do that we

6101
04:20:15,600 --> 04:20:18,800
should do it with all of the

6102
04:20:16,479 --> 04:20:21,199
neighborhoods for those pieces. Um I

6103
04:20:18,800 --> 04:20:22,960
think at this point we want the staff to

6104
04:20:21,199 --> 04:20:24,960
give their technical advice based on the

6105
04:20:22,960 --> 04:20:26,720
feedback that we've given them and then

6106
04:20:24,960 --> 04:20:28,080
we'll have feedback on that and I think

6107
04:20:26,720 --> 04:20:29,600
that's really important for us to

6108
04:20:28,080 --> 04:20:32,000
personally I think it's important for us

6109
04:20:29,600 --> 04:20:34,159
to separate the inputs into council into

6110
04:20:32,000 --> 04:20:36,880
the technical or professional the

6111
04:20:34,159 --> 04:20:38,239
community um the advisory bodies and

6112
04:20:36,880 --> 04:20:40,239
other aspects so that when we're making

6113
04:20:38,239 --> 04:20:41,520
decisions we're not muddying the water

6114
04:20:40,239 --> 04:20:43,520
too much. I think we just want to get

6115
04:20:41,520 --> 04:20:44,800
the technical advice and we're free and

6116
04:20:43,520 --> 04:20:46,880
I think in this case we've made some

6117
04:20:44,800 --> 04:20:48,479
suggestions of things we want to change

6118
04:20:46,880 --> 04:20:50,880
u that might divert from the pure

6119
04:20:48,479 --> 04:20:53,680
technical advice but still there. So I I

6120
04:20:50,880 --> 04:20:57,080
don't support the motion but I I and

6121
04:20:53,680 --> 04:20:59,600
that's why strange as it is. Councelor

6122
04:20:57,080 --> 04:21:01,199
Appleton. Thank you worship and yeah

6123
04:20:59,600 --> 04:21:02,560
just speaking against for many of the

6124
04:21:01,199 --> 04:21:05,120
same reasons that you have and and

6125
04:21:02,560 --> 04:21:07,600
collaboration is you know is a real is

6126
04:21:05,120 --> 04:21:09,199
is an excellent goal for sure and I

6127
04:21:07,600 --> 04:21:10,960
think that we have you know listened to

6128
04:21:09,199 --> 04:21:12,720
the community's interest in having input

6129
04:21:10,960 --> 04:21:15,040
opportunities and and provided a

6130
04:21:12,720 --> 04:21:18,479
specific focused input opportunity

6131
04:21:15,040 --> 04:21:20,479
beyond the broader community uh the

6132
04:21:18,479 --> 04:21:22,880
community conversation that we had. So

6133
04:21:20,479 --> 04:21:26,159
there's been a specific Chffileled or

6134
04:21:22,880 --> 04:21:27,760
Chffy oriented type of engagement. Um, I

6135
04:21:26,159 --> 04:21:29,359
would also note that, you know, I think

6136
04:21:27,760 --> 04:21:31,199
that there's a significant outcome as

6137
04:21:29,359 --> 04:21:32,960
far as like listening to the community

6138
04:21:31,199 --> 04:21:34,640
about how they want to be involved in

6139
04:21:32,960 --> 04:21:36,720
these types of designs and it would

6140
04:21:34,640 --> 04:21:40,080
would underline the fact that council

6141
04:21:36,720 --> 04:21:43,120
has now implemented an and expanded and

6142
04:21:40,080 --> 04:21:45,760
and quite a bit more detailed engagement

6143
04:21:43,120 --> 04:21:47,840
process for subsequent projects as well,

6144
04:21:45,760 --> 04:21:50,239
which is also an outcome from this

6145
04:21:47,840 --> 04:21:51,840
process. So, you know, I I really

6146
04:21:50,239 --> 04:21:54,159
appreciate the intent that this is that

6147
04:21:51,840 --> 04:21:56,720
this is under and it's really responding

6148
04:21:54,159 --> 04:21:58,399
really clearly to what the community

6149
04:21:56,720 --> 04:22:01,439
has, you know, the concerns that the

6150
04:21:58,399 --> 04:22:03,520
community has raised. Um, I I concur

6151
04:22:01,439 --> 04:22:05,600
this is now going to be into a a

6152
04:22:03,520 --> 04:22:07,680
technical discussion and there is still

6153
04:22:05,600 --> 04:22:09,439
some opportunity for technical

6154
04:22:07,680 --> 04:22:12,239
components to be communicated through to

6155
04:22:09,439 --> 04:22:14,479
staff. um that opportunity remains and

6156
04:22:12,239 --> 04:22:17,120
there's been a substantive change to

6157
04:22:14,479 --> 04:22:18,960
subsequent engagements because of what

6158
04:22:17,120 --> 04:22:20,960
we've learned through this process. So I

6159
04:22:18,960 --> 04:22:22,880
appreciate the intent of this. I won't

6160
04:22:20,960 --> 04:22:24,720
support it at this time but I see a way

6161
04:22:22,880 --> 04:22:26,479
forward for subsequent projects that's

6162
04:22:24,720 --> 04:22:28,640
really going to be informed by this. So

6163
04:22:26,479 --> 04:22:31,920
thank you worship. Thank you councelor

6164
04:22:28,640 --> 04:22:34,479
Robson councelor SM question. Go ahead.

6165
04:22:31,920 --> 04:22:35,840
Uh thank you. Um, speaking against the

6166
04:22:34,479 --> 04:22:38,159
motion on the table, but for

6167
04:22:35,840 --> 04:22:40,319
collaboration, what I see as a way

6168
04:22:38,159 --> 04:22:43,040
forward at this point, particularly with

6169
04:22:40,319 --> 04:22:44,640
um, uh, the Carrick Trail and us still

6170
04:22:43,040 --> 04:22:46,640
needing some more information from

6171
04:22:44,640 --> 04:22:49,279
residents about all the special places

6172
04:22:46,640 --> 04:22:50,880
and and you know, where the path should

6173
04:22:49,279 --> 04:22:53,840
be and where it shouldn't be. Is is that

6174
04:22:50,880 --> 04:22:56,399
our um, ability for residents to email

6175
04:22:53,840 --> 04:22:58,080
us photographs? Um, you know, to even

6176
04:22:56,399 --> 04:23:00,479
like lay out with skipping ropes where

6177
04:22:58,080 --> 04:23:02,239
they see the trail, to send us drawings.

6178
04:23:00,479 --> 04:23:03,680
they've been doing that and I hope the

6179
04:23:02,239 --> 04:23:07,120
community continues to do that and and

6180
04:23:03,680 --> 04:23:10,319
and actually keep sending information to

6181
04:23:07,120 --> 04:23:13,520
engineering as soon as possible about um

6182
04:23:10,319 --> 04:23:15,199
all their ideas. Um and I can see that

6183
04:23:13,520 --> 04:23:18,239
collaborative process still being able

6184
04:23:15,199 --> 04:23:22,319
to exist through email uh to us and to

6185
04:23:18,239 --> 04:23:22,319
engineering. Um

6186
04:23:23,800 --> 04:23:28,880
thanks for second time. I'll make it

6187
04:23:25,840 --> 04:23:31,439
really brief. Yes, it's a technical

6188
04:23:28,880 --> 04:23:34,080
process. It's a technical report, but

6189
04:23:31,439 --> 04:23:36,920
the impacts are also social. They're

6190
04:23:34,080 --> 04:23:39,279
they impact cultural, they impact

6191
04:23:36,920 --> 04:23:42,239
livability, they impact safety and

6192
04:23:39,279 --> 04:23:44,880
health and well-being. So, while it's a

6193
04:23:42,239 --> 04:23:47,520
technical process, it has all these

6194
04:23:44,880 --> 04:23:49,760
other implications. So, I I I want you

6195
04:23:47,520 --> 04:23:51,040
to appreciate that as well. Thank you.

6196
04:23:49,760 --> 04:23:53,359
Yeah. Thank you, Council Green.

6197
04:23:51,040 --> 04:23:55,439
Councelor Patterson. Yes, Mayor. I'll

6198
04:23:53,359 --> 04:23:57,760
speak very briefly about this. I I

6199
04:23:55,439 --> 04:24:00,479
certainly appreciate councelor Green um

6200
04:23:57,760 --> 04:24:02,560
bringing that forward and and

6201
04:24:00,479 --> 04:24:06,399
justifiably so because throughout this

6202
04:24:02,560 --> 04:24:09,120
whole painful process to this route. Um

6203
04:24:06,399 --> 04:24:11,600
councelor Green has con consistently

6204
04:24:09,120 --> 04:24:14,560
asked for engagement with the public and

6205
04:24:11,600 --> 04:24:17,760
I think certainly um once we started

6206
04:24:14,560 --> 04:24:20,159
listening we we there has been better

6207
04:24:17,760 --> 04:24:22,239
collaboration and I hope that that will

6208
04:24:20,159 --> 04:24:24,319
continue into the future. I see number

6209
04:24:22,239 --> 04:24:26,359
two and number three already

6210
04:24:24,319 --> 04:24:29,920
incorporating

6211
04:24:26,359 --> 04:24:33,040
um many of the aspects of what was

6212
04:24:29,920 --> 04:24:35,199
presented by by the community on this

6213
04:24:33,040 --> 04:24:38,159
and hopefully that will transition

6214
04:24:35,199 --> 04:24:41,520
through. Um I also hope that with the

6215
04:24:38,159 --> 04:24:43,760
recommended um engagement process to

6216
04:24:41,520 --> 04:24:45,760
review the redesign drawing that it will

6217
04:24:43,760 --> 04:24:49,040
capture that. So, I won't be supporting

6218
04:24:45,760 --> 04:24:51,840
it, but I I certainly admire um the

6219
04:24:49,040 --> 04:24:54,880
consistency with which councelor Green

6220
04:24:51,840 --> 04:24:59,120
has um pushed us to demand public

6221
04:24:54,880 --> 04:25:01,359
engagement. So, thank you for that.

6222
04:24:59,120 --> 04:25:02,399
I'm not seeing any other discussion on

6223
04:25:01,359 --> 04:25:04,960
this at the moment. So, I'm going to

6224
04:25:02,399 --> 04:25:07,920
call the question on the motion. Uh all

6225
04:25:04,960 --> 04:25:10,000
those in favor and those opposed,

6226
04:25:07,920 --> 04:25:11,600
councelor Watson, Appleton, Patterson,

6227
04:25:10,000 --> 04:25:14,239
Smart, and myself opposed. That motion

6228
04:25:11,600 --> 04:25:16,720
does not carry. I believe that Last

6229
04:25:14,239 --> 04:25:19,279
motion I I saw people intending here

6230
04:25:16,720 --> 04:25:21,040
tonight in terms of motions arising. So

6231
04:25:19,279 --> 04:25:23,520
I'm going to move to item can't believe

6232
04:25:21,040 --> 04:25:26,479
I'm actually getting to do this 12.1.

6233
04:25:23,520 --> 04:25:28,239
This is a notice of motion. Um I might

6234
04:25:26,479 --> 04:25:29,600
just ask that someone move it and second

6235
04:25:28,239 --> 04:25:32,080
it and I'll quickly speak to that. I'm

6236
04:25:29,600 --> 04:25:34,000
going to make a motion.

6237
04:25:32,080 --> 04:25:37,120
So this is just a very odd one, but the

6238
04:25:34,000 --> 04:25:40,239
way our bylaws are written, uh the ask

6239
04:25:37,120 --> 04:25:41,520
of a widening is deemed to be a u not a

6240
04:25:40,239 --> 04:25:43,760
staff determination. Didn't meet the

6241
04:25:41,520 --> 04:25:45,120
criteria for staff to consider it. And

6242
04:25:43,760 --> 04:25:46,640
so it has to come to council, but

6243
04:25:45,120 --> 04:25:48,560
obviously council can't be in a position

6244
04:25:46,640 --> 04:25:51,359
of say approving something without

6245
04:25:48,560 --> 04:25:53,279
having staff input into it. So, um, the

6246
04:25:51,359 --> 04:25:55,520
wording of the motion that's that's in

6247
04:25:53,279 --> 04:25:57,359
here, um, basically just ask staff to

6248
04:25:55,520 --> 04:25:59,760
pro to go ahead and process their their

6249
04:25:57,359 --> 04:26:01,120
request and then review that for safety

6250
04:25:59,760 --> 04:26:03,840
concerns and bring it to council with

6251
04:26:01,120 --> 04:26:05,840
their advice. Um, it's just odd, but in

6252
04:26:03,840 --> 04:26:07,840
that in that language, they just didn't

6253
04:26:05,840 --> 04:26:10,560
feel they could they could accept the

6254
04:26:07,840 --> 04:26:12,960
application. So I'm at the request of

6255
04:26:10,560 --> 04:26:16,560
the applicant uh and of staff of bring

6256
04:26:12,960 --> 04:26:18,800
this forward so it can be considered. So

6257
04:26:16,560 --> 04:26:20,399
uh that's moved and seconded. Is there a

6258
04:26:18,800 --> 04:26:21,920
discussion on it? I know this is a very

6259
04:26:20,399 --> 04:26:23,319
strange one. I guess it's the first of

6260
04:26:21,920 --> 04:26:25,680
this type I've ever seen

6261
04:26:23,319 --> 04:26:27,680
before. Okay. Not seeing any discussion.

6262
04:26:25,680 --> 04:26:31,279
All those in favor? Any opposed? None

6263
04:26:27,680 --> 04:26:34,880
opposed. Uh and then we go to uh

6264
04:26:31,279 --> 04:26:36,560
correspondents from government.

6265
04:26:34,880 --> 04:26:38,479
Oh, is that in that order? My apologies.

6266
04:26:36,560 --> 04:26:41,479
Yep. Sorry. notice a motion. I think we

6267
04:26:38,479 --> 04:26:44,399
had two council and then councelor

6268
04:26:41,479 --> 04:26:47,120
Braithway just read into the into the

6269
04:26:44,399 --> 04:26:49,520
record. Uh thank you worship. So I would

6270
04:26:47,120 --> 04:26:51,920
uh under under yeah notice of motion

6271
04:26:49,520 --> 04:26:53,760
that I would make a motion to request

6272
04:26:51,920 --> 04:26:55,439
that staff prepare a project

6273
04:26:53,760 --> 04:26:58,239
backgrounder on the resource

6274
04:26:55,439 --> 04:27:00,080
requirements to design and install a

6275
04:26:58,239 --> 04:27:02,239
pedestrian controlled crosswalk on

6276
04:27:00,080 --> 04:27:06,920
Windsor Road at the north end of the

6277
04:27:02,239 --> 04:27:06,920
Windsor Park Pavilion Access Road.

6278
04:27:11,800 --> 04:27:16,560
Okay, on the same thing. So, okay, that

6279
04:27:14,159 --> 04:27:19,680
will be coming back for consideration uh

6280
04:27:16,560 --> 04:27:21,359
in the next council meeting, I guess. Uh

6281
04:27:19,680 --> 04:27:22,640
any other discussions or new business?

6282
04:27:21,359 --> 04:27:23,840
Not seeing any. So, then we have

6283
04:27:22,640 --> 04:27:26,560
correspondence from the government,

6284
04:27:23,840 --> 04:27:28,720
other levels of government. Receipt. Uh

6285
04:27:26,560 --> 04:27:31,600
so, we have a motion to receive. Is

6286
04:27:28,720 --> 04:27:32,800
there a second? Thank you. Um I'm going

6287
04:27:31,600 --> 04:27:34,000
to call the question on receipt because

6288
04:27:32,800 --> 04:27:36,880
it's fairly straightforward. Thank you

6289
04:27:34,000 --> 04:27:38,880
everybody. Uh all those in favor for

6290
04:27:36,880 --> 04:27:40,960
receipt any opposed does any other

6291
04:27:38,880 --> 04:27:43,120
direction I mean I I'm going to respond

6292
04:27:40,960 --> 04:27:45,279
basically uh I think but it might be

6293
04:27:43,120 --> 04:27:46,720
helpful to have a direction from council

6294
04:27:45,279 --> 04:27:48,159
to to write a letter back the

6295
04:27:46,720 --> 04:27:50,479
expectation of the government is to I

6296
04:27:48,159 --> 04:27:52,720
would do it probably with by default but

6297
04:27:50,479 --> 04:27:54,159
no harm uh if we had more time I'd

6298
04:27:52,720 --> 04:27:55,520
probably ask for some feedback so maybe

6299
04:27:54,159 --> 04:27:58,720
I'll ask for that offline if there's

6300
04:27:55,520 --> 04:28:00,239
anything people want to cover. Um so can

6301
04:27:58,720 --> 04:28:03,199
I get a motion maybe just to direct

6302
04:28:00,239 --> 04:28:04,720
myself to to respond to move. Yeah moved

6303
04:28:03,199 --> 04:28:06,920
and seconded.

6304
04:28:04,720 --> 04:28:11,120
from members.

6305
04:28:06,920 --> 04:28:13,040
Yeah. Um so that motion is on the floor.

6306
04:28:11,120 --> 04:28:15,120
All those in favor? Any opposed? Un

6307
04:28:13,040 --> 04:28:16,399
opposed. Um since we're all here

6308
04:28:15,120 --> 04:28:18,159
together, I'll just give it verbally.

6309
04:28:16,399 --> 04:28:19,600
Can you just if you have thoughts on it,

6310
04:28:18,159 --> 04:28:21,359
please just share them with me and I'll

6311
04:28:19,600 --> 04:28:23,040
uh I'll do that. I'll I'll share with

6312
04:28:21,359 --> 04:28:25,199
you my general intent on this is not to

6313
04:28:23,040 --> 04:28:26,960
go into the body of the report and start

6314
04:28:25,199 --> 04:28:28,880
picking apart all of the bits and bits

6315
04:28:26,960 --> 04:28:31,520
and pieces. It was really to primarily

6316
04:28:28,880 --> 04:28:32,960
focus on the two directives. Um, but if

6317
04:28:31,520 --> 04:28:34,239
there's aspects, if people feel

6318
04:28:32,960 --> 04:28:36,080
differently in that, please let me know.

6319
04:28:34,239 --> 04:28:38,080
If people want to add anything else,

6320
04:28:36,080 --> 04:28:39,600
kind of some terminology, language or

6321
04:28:38,080 --> 04:28:41,439
tone that you want to see seen, please

6322
04:28:39,600 --> 04:28:42,880
share it with me and I'll do my best and

6323
04:28:41,439 --> 04:28:45,600
I should have time to circulate it for

6324
04:28:42,880 --> 04:28:47,680
some comment before I send it off. So,

6325
04:28:45,600 --> 04:28:50,000
okay, a motion is made and we have a

6326
04:28:47,680 --> 04:28:51,520
motion to adjurnn. Moved and seconded.

6327
04:28:50,000 --> 04:28:53,600
All those in favor? Any opposed? None

6328
04:28:51,520 --> 04:28:57,000
opposed. Thank you for your patience and

6329
04:28:53,600 --> 04:28:57,000
your time tonight.