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Good evening. Welcome to the September 2nd meeting of the Amherst Planning Board.

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First order of business, we have a member that isn't in tonight.

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Doug, would you vote in his place, please? Thank you.

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Our first case tonight, we'll open them both up at the same time.

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This is McGrellan Gam Realty Trust, case

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PZ12164-121619 and case

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PZ13773-021221.

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One is for a non-residential site plan application, and the other is for a

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wetland and watershed conservation district conditional use permit.

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And I guess to start off tonight, we were thinking of beginning the evening off

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talking about the conditional use permit, focusing on that for the time being, and

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then get into the rest of the application.

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Sure.

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So.

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Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

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For the record, my name's Chad Brandon.

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I'm a civil engineer and principal owner with Field Stone Land Consultants.

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With me this evening is Eli Leno, who's the project attorney with Bernstein Shur,

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and together we'll be representing Gam Realty Trust this evening with the site plan

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and conditional use permit application that's before you.

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I guess just a brief update since our last meeting.

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We'll start with the conditional use permit for the wetlands.

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But just to bring the board up to speed, we have worked on

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and submitted and gone through one iteration of a review of the legal documents for

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the project, which was one of the items that was discussed at the last meeting.

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I also did submit a landscaping exhibit that

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formalizes some additional buffering along Hollis Road, which was one of the

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outstanding items.

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Unfortunately, we were not able to

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solicit the services of the former landscape architect because they're no longer in

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business. I understand he's retired.

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So we did submit that a little bit late, but the addition is pretty

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minor, so we're hoping to have an opportunity to at least review that with the

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board. And then at the convenience, or kind of as requested at the

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last hearing, some of the board members suggested it might be a good idea for us to

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address and update everybody on the conditional use permit and Integrative

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Innovative Housing Ordinance and how we satisfied that criteria through the

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conditional use permitting approval from January of 2019.

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So I did compile the old conditional use permit

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criteria as well as the IHO site density worksheet

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criteria and tried to summarize that in a document, which was provided

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yesterday, I believe. And so it was late, but it's really a document that

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summarizes the board's findings from some time ago.

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And so I was hoping to just walk through that this evening when the time is

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appropriate, Mr. Chairman. And I also wanted to, before I get into the wetlands

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criteria, I'd like to hand the floor over to the attorney so he can give an update

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on his side.

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Yeah.

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Again, for the record, Eli Leno, Bernstein Shur.

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I, as Chad mentioned, provided document, received comments on the condominium

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documents, and actually on Friday, sent Gloria a turn.

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So there's just one more update to those.

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No doubt, town counsel and I will keep working on that, but that's been collegial

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at this point. So I think we're well down the road.

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And our client is unable to be here, sends his regrets on that, but did implore me

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to tell you that several dumpsters worth of refuse have been removed from the site.

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So heard the board loud and clear, and I'm sorry Mr.

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Cullen's not here to hear that, but against my thoughts on the necessity of it, he

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has done the right thing and cleaned up a lot of this.

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And the condition about it being cleaned up will still be-- I think it's a

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reasonable conclusion, but we're on the path to compliance for the board's request.

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And so, transitioning into the conditional use permit, we

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had made a submission for this permit back in 2021.

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There's significant amount of work that has gone into the review,

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both before the board, but also before the Conservation Commission as it relates to

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the design that we have in front of you with the-- not only the crossing, but

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really the restoration of the buffer area for your project.

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Many of you had an opportunity to do the site walk with us, and I think what you

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probably saw is there's not a lot of vegetation that is within that 100-foot

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buffer, which is positioned just behind the clubhouse, and it completely bisects

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the site. And I'll pull a plan up here shortly and kind of review that.

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The

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wetland impact that's being proposed for this project is 577 square

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feet.

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It does have 96 square feet of what we would consider a temporary

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impact. It's just inlet and outlet control stuff.

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We're proposing a 48-inch diameter reinforced concrete

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pipe, which is the materials that New Hampshire Fish and Game has been requesting

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for these types of crossings that don't rise to the level of a box culvert.

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But they like the materials because it's favorable to species and

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such that would migrate through that particular crossing.

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With the

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proposed wetland impact, we do have associated buffer areas.

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The

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design of this project initially started, and I'm just going to pull a plan up here

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briefly, but additionally started with the stormwater design being inside the

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100-foot buffer. The Conservation Commission and the planning board had some

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feedback relative to that many years ago, and they felt that it wasn't appropriate

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to have the stormwater located entirely within the buffer area.

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And so what we did is we took that stormwater management area, and we moved it to

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the other side of the roadway and out of the buffer.

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That revision was done to address comments relative to improving the buffer

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restoration through that area, but also to address concerns relative to potential

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stormwater impacts to the jurisdictional wetland, both from

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a just location, but also potential temperature impacts.

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And so we provided additional separation and buffer, basically

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distance. The stormwater on the site takes advantage of the soil, so we are

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infiltrating, and that's a practice that is recommended in sensitive areas like

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where we are here. We actually, the alteration of terrain regulations has a higher

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level standard for

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stormwater areas that are located in proximity to a brook like Penchuck Brook,

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where you're basically a cold water fishery situation.

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So the design has been done to meet and exceed that criteria.

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I can ultimately work my way through the

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conditional use criteria if the board feels that is necessary.

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But what I want to touch on real quick is the

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landscaping plan that deals with the buffer restoration.

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We're not seeing any plan.

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I'm going to share it.

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Okay.

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I just was throwing to it. I appreciate it.

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And so what you'll see here on this plan is this is the wetland crossing

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area here.

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And so

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we're crossing at a narrow spot. We're avoiding the impacts to the greatest

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extent. We've addressed all this criteria with this

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layout in the past, but just to rehash it, we have designed the crossing to

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meet local and state standards And then you'll see along

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this corridor, there's a lot of landscaping proposed to

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reestablish that

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buffer area immediately adjacent to the jurisdictional wetland area, which again

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bisects the site right through here.

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This is, for those of you who attended the site walk, it's really a

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man-made jurisdictional wetland area that basically it's been dug,

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and over time, because you're in the water table, it's just established itself as a

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wetland.

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And so it doesn't have high functions and values, and that's addressed in the

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conditional use permit. But nonetheless, it does rise to the level of a

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jurisdictional area, and so requires the appropriate permitting locally and on a

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state level. But I think what you likely saw, if you were on that site walk, is

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that there is a number of areas where that's kind of been man

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impacted. You have a couple culverts.

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We're taking advantage of the other existing crossings that are quite narrow.

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You can see one of them here, this little location here, and

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there's another one here, and we're utilizing those existing crossings for trail

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connectivity. Again, that layout was reviewed extensively

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with the planning board for the conditional use permit that we obtained for the

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integrative innovative housing ordinance because the trails,

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those components on many levels were part of the evaluation for additional

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density bonus for this project. And so the layout, the road layout, the trail

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layout, subdivision layout, the open space layout, all of those components played

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directly into that January 2019 approval where

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this project was deemed up to the 54-unit

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density. And if we could pull up the plans from 2019, what you'll

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notice is the road layout, the trail layout, and essentially the geometry of the

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development has not changed at all since then.

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I do think it's notable to jump in for one second that where it's up to 54, the two

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units that were removed from that count to the current 52-unit plan were located in

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that spot where you moved the stormwater basin.

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Right. Those two units that we removed were right here, situated adjacent to the

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roadway. And so when we took the stormwater basin out, and that's a very good

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point, when we took it out of the buffer, it was located here, and we moved it over

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here. We dropped the density count down to 52 units.

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We could have

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contemplated additional duplexes, but rather than doing that, it was just, hey,

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the layout was deemed to be on our end deemed to be good

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and the

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diversity and such, so that we just kind of eliminated two units as I

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just stated.

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And so that's the

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kind of the description of how this came to be.

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Certainly, we believe we're minimizing the impact.

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We're restoring a good large buffer area.

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I think what you'll notice is we've had favorable feedback from the Conservation

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Commission on a number of occasions.

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They actually voted the last meeting that we were at the Conservation Commission,

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they voted to not change their support of this project and the design from

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their original hearing. And so we hope that the board has that information at your

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disposal. And the reason why they didn't make any changes is we haven't

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changed the design in the wetlands or in the buffer area since their

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last

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letter. And so they

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were very consistent on that, which we appreciated.

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We essentially explained to them what the changes have been since the last time we

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were in front of them.

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They asked if there was any stormwater changes, and we explained that there wasn't,

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that we were consistent with everything that they had reviewed before.

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And that really it was an overhaul of just the type of development, offering this

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as a 55 and older is further restricting the type of housing,

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but still adhering to all the other IHO conditional use

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permit criteria.

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And so that's the summary. I'm happy to go through the criteria.

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I did bring it with me. I would have to reference that in some of the responses

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because I'm not a licensed wetlands individual that addressed the functions and

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values. But it's on the record, and we have reviewed it with the board before, but

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I do understand that we could go through that again if necessary.

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Yeah. Probably makes sense to just go through them quickly.

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Okay.

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Summarize.

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Summarize. Okay, perfect. So I'm going to stop sharing the screen just because I

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have to pull it up here on my computer real quick.

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So taking a look at the criteria

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from Article 411.

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The first one is accessory structures associated with a legally

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existing primary structure. That one's not applicable.

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Here, the construction of streets, roads, and other access ways, including

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driveways, footpaths, bridges, and utilities, if essential to the productive use of

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land. Beyond the wetland and watershed conservation districts, these uses shall be

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located and constructed in such a way to minimize the potential for detrimental

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impacts to the district and be planned, designed, and constructed in a manner

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consistent with the applicable state and local standards.

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Such construction may be permitted within the district, but with no viable

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alternatives available.

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What we've summarized in here is that the wetland that we're looking to cross

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transects the property, and so we have to cross it with a formal crossing, and

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so we pick a location where we can minimize that

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crossing area. Again, 577 square feet with 96 square feet of

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temporary impact. It's a flush-perennially forested, emergently seasonally

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saturated wetland, which is partially drained, ditched, and excavated

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throughout.

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It's basically a poorly drained intermittent

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wetland that

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runs through that section. And we're proposing a 60-foot long by 48-inch diameter

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reinforced concrete pipe, which will provide for

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hydraulic connectivity within that area.

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It is appropriately

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sized and designed to meet local and state standards.

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This wetland area does completely dry in certain seasons, so it's not an

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intermittent stream or doesn't really have those characteristics.

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It does have flow characteristics at times, but our consultant or our wetlands

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scientist said that it's certainly not perennial or a stream throughout the

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season.

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We are proposing that type of culvert because of recommendations that we have

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received through Fish and Game review.

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That was a while ago, but we do have to submit for the state permit again

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or

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in the future as we hopefully secure local approvals.

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We do have some drainage outfalls from the stormwater basins for

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the larger storms. The majority of the stormwater is infiltrated into the ground,

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but in the very large storms, there is an outfall that will daylight into the

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buffer area. Those outfall areas have been appropriately designed, and there's

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erosion and sedimentation controls at those outfalls to make sure that there's no

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negative impacts to the buffer and ultimately jurisdictional area.

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One of the things that we say in here addressing the criteria is most of the

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existing 100-foot buffer throughout the site was a maintained

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hayfield. And I think you saw that at different times of the year, it does get

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maintained mowed. And so what we've done is we've proposed

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00:18:43,608 --> 00:18:45,018
that significant

239
00:18:46,248 --> 00:18:50,928
revegetation plan within that 100-foot buffer area, especially locus to the

240
00:18:50,958 --> 00:18:56,568
jurisdictional wetland which will be, again, a restoration and improvement to the

241
00:18:56,808 --> 00:18:58,008
jurisdictional area.

242
00:19:03,048 --> 00:19:07,397
And I'll move on, Mr. Chairman, unless you want... Feel free to stop me with any.

243
00:19:07,503 --> 00:19:11,448
There's quite a few criteria that are addressed through this particular conditional

244
00:19:11,508 --> 00:19:13,803
use permit, so I'll do my best to touch on them.

245
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:15,978
I'm sure there'll be some redundancy, but-

246
00:19:16,038 --> 00:19:17,508
Yep, please.

247
00:19:17,538 --> 00:19:23,388
And so, number three under this section is water encampments for the

248
00:19:23,478 --> 00:19:27,483
purposes of creating a water body for wildlife, fire protection, storm water

249
00:19:27,558 --> 00:19:28,068
management.

250
00:19:29,508 --> 00:19:32,418
I'm not going to read that whole section because this one is not applicable.

251
00:19:32,478 --> 00:19:37,998
We're not impacting or creating water encampment here in this jurisdictional

252
00:19:38,358 --> 00:19:41,928
area. In fact, we took the storm water basin and pulled it out of the buffer, as

253
00:19:41,988 --> 00:19:42,738
you recall. So

254
00:19:46,909 --> 00:19:49,968
number four is non-conforming uses and structures.

255
00:19:50,028 --> 00:19:55,218
That also is not applicable to this project as none of those exist within

256
00:19:56,149 --> 00:19:57,198
this proposal.

257
00:20:00,768 --> 00:20:03,858
Number five is also not applicable.

258
00:20:05,298 --> 00:20:10,368
I don't know if you want me to read what that section is, but if you want me to

259
00:20:10,399 --> 00:20:12,828
abbreviate, I'll just say it's not applicable.

260
00:20:15,318 --> 00:20:20,358
When you go on to the conditional use permit review criteria,

261
00:20:22,428 --> 00:20:27,738
you have part one says the planning board shall, in addition to

262
00:20:27,828 --> 00:20:32,628
referencing the findings referenced in the preceding sections, consider all

263
00:20:32,659 --> 00:20:35,328
relevant facts and information prior to making the decision.

264
00:20:36,288 --> 00:20:41,718
Part A under here deals with the proposed activity minimizes

265
00:20:41,778 --> 00:20:46,368
degradation of land situated within the district and offsets

266
00:20:48,978 --> 00:20:53,089
potential adverse impacts to the function and values of the wetland surface waters

267
00:20:53,628 --> 00:20:58,248
and vernal pools, including, but not limited to, their capacity to...

268
00:20:58,488 --> 00:21:00,918
And it goes on to list a number of items.

269
00:21:00,978 --> 00:21:05,673
Support fish and wildlife, attenuate flooding, supply and protect surface and

270
00:21:05,718 --> 00:21:10,548
groundwater resources, remove sediments, remove pollutants, support wetland

271
00:21:10,608 --> 00:21:11,298
vegetation,

272
00:21:12,558 --> 00:21:17,058
promote public health and safety, and moderate fluctuations in surface water

273
00:21:17,149 --> 00:21:17,598
levels.

274
00:21:21,048 --> 00:21:26,899
Basically, we have designed this crossing to meet all this criteria.

275
00:21:27,168 --> 00:21:32,013
This criteria is also reviewed through the state permitting process to make sure

276
00:21:32,058 --> 00:21:35,793
that we're not proposing something that's going to have adverse impacts to these

277
00:21:36,047 --> 00:21:41,388
situations. Generally speaking, the crossing itself is sized appropriately.

278
00:21:41,448 --> 00:21:47,103
In fact, it's oversized if you look at upstream and downstream crossings were

279
00:21:47,149 --> 00:21:51,722
significantly larger, so we're definitely not going to be restricting or changing

280
00:21:51,738 --> 00:21:56,478
the flow through this channeled area through this proposed crossing.

281
00:21:58,788 --> 00:22:02,868
The crossing will support wildlife, and we are proposing

282
00:22:04,518 --> 00:22:09,948
stormwater mitigation that'll appropriately mitigate the qualitative and

283
00:22:10,008 --> 00:22:15,108
quantitative aspects of the stormwater prior to it discharging into a

284
00:22:16,428 --> 00:22:21,409
jurisdictional zone. The buffer restoration in itself will improve

285
00:22:21,708 --> 00:22:26,358
stormwater flow and treatment into that jurisdictional area as well.

286
00:22:27,438 --> 00:22:31,518
Flooding will be attenuated by the stormwater management designs.

287
00:22:32,208 --> 00:22:35,118
Those have been reviewed and approved by Keegan and Ardstrom.

288
00:22:35,478 --> 00:22:40,038
And so, certainly they'll be reviewed and approved at a state level too, through

289
00:22:40,098 --> 00:22:42,798
the alteration of train permitting.

290
00:22:44,238 --> 00:22:48,618
The crossing has been designed to allow for passage of

291
00:22:50,388 --> 00:22:54,409
critters as well, amphibians, as necessary.

292
00:22:55,098 --> 00:22:57,288
So it's an oversized structure.

293
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:06,738
We do touch on how, in this section, just take a quick read.

294
00:23:07,128 --> 00:23:11,808
We do touch on how the stormwater has been designed to mitigate

295
00:23:11,868 --> 00:23:17,778
any potential temperature increases with the distance to the jurisdictional area,

296
00:23:18,258 --> 00:23:23,748
the separation to the seasonal high water, and really the flow path that

297
00:23:24,048 --> 00:23:29,688
stormwater will go. And the buffer areas are proposed to be planted with native

298
00:23:29,988 --> 00:23:30,468
species.

299
00:23:33,138 --> 00:23:38,598
Part B deals with the proposed activity will have no adverse negative

300
00:23:38,659 --> 00:23:39,258
impact

301
00:23:40,608 --> 00:23:46,548
on environmental features, which it measures that to abutting

302
00:23:46,578 --> 00:23:51,858
or downstream properties and/or hydrologically connected

303
00:23:52,128 --> 00:23:56,538
water and/or wetland resources, including, and it lists a number

304
00:23:57,798 --> 00:24:02,808
here, increased potential for erosion, siltation, and turbidity of surface waters.

305
00:24:03,288 --> 00:24:07,788
Loss of fish and wildlife habitat, loss of unique habitat having demonstrated

306
00:24:07,878 --> 00:24:13,698
natural, scientific or educational value, loss or decrease in beneficial

307
00:24:13,714 --> 00:24:18,108
aquatic organisms and wetland plants and their habitat.

308
00:24:18,198 --> 00:24:22,534
Increased danger of flooding and/or transport of pollutants, destruction of

309
00:24:22,578 --> 00:24:27,618
economic, aesthetic, recreational, and/or other public and private uses and values

310
00:24:28,068 --> 00:24:29,508
of the wetlands to the community.

311
00:24:30,858 --> 00:24:35,478
This proposed development within the buffer area, the jurisdictional area,

312
00:24:38,178 --> 00:24:40,998
will actually restore the

313
00:24:42,288 --> 00:24:48,228
buffer, will serve to enhance all of the above-listed functions in this section.

314
00:24:48,767 --> 00:24:52,308
All of the existing and proposed runoff will be captured and infiltrated through

315
00:24:52,399 --> 00:24:54,738
the stormwater management basins.

316
00:24:56,118 --> 00:25:01,668
The existing wetlands is essentially a vegetated drainage swale, which is to be

317
00:25:01,698 --> 00:25:06,858
maintained. There'll be no restrictions in flow as I had stated before.

318
00:25:07,399 --> 00:25:13,233
Existing buffer areas will be restored and augmented with native plants as we've

319
00:25:13,233 --> 00:25:17,538
detailed on our plans and the landscaping plans.

320
00:25:17,568 --> 00:25:21,978
And the proposed culvert is embedded to ensure continuity of the wetland and allow

321
00:25:22,458 --> 00:25:24,108
for wildlife passage.

322
00:25:25,548 --> 00:25:28,683
And certainly, we could touch on a lot of things here, but the erosion and

323
00:25:28,758 --> 00:25:33,438
sedimentation design for this site is designed to ensure that there's no

324
00:25:33,468 --> 00:25:36,198
degradation of these sensitive areas, too.

325
00:25:37,698 --> 00:25:43,399
Moving on to C, the proposed activity or use cannot practically be located

326
00:25:43,488 --> 00:25:47,538
otherwise on-site to eliminate or reduce the impact of the wetland and watershed

327
00:25:47,628 --> 00:25:52,938
conservation district. And our response to this within the application was that the

328
00:25:52,998 --> 00:25:58,279
proposed impact area is the result of a carefully designed

329
00:25:59,508 --> 00:26:04,548
site where we're taking into consideration the topography and the features, where

330
00:26:04,578 --> 00:26:06,468
you're crossing at a narrow location.

331
00:26:06,558 --> 00:26:12,408
We're enhancing the existing buffer area as part of this design, and these will

332
00:26:12,468 --> 00:26:18,258
improve the water quality within this area.

333
00:26:19,698 --> 00:26:23,748
The proposed wetland crossing is necessary to provide for the safe and responsible

334
00:26:24,378 --> 00:26:28,818
development of the property, and the impact is offset by the proposed buffer

335
00:26:28,878 --> 00:26:30,438
restoration and the reduction

336
00:26:31,698 --> 00:26:37,248
in basically flow path to, or the

337
00:26:37,488 --> 00:26:40,578
increase in flow path to the jurisdictional area.

338
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:45,228
As part of this project, we're also reducing curb cuts along the highway.

339
00:26:45,618 --> 00:26:51,514
We're protecting lands and conservation area, or open

340
00:26:51,618 --> 00:26:56,583
space area rather and providing for responsible and

341
00:26:56,779 --> 00:27:00,214
reasonable, practical use of the property.

342
00:27:02,118 --> 00:27:04,518
And when you look at the impact, it's quite minor.

343
00:27:04,548 --> 00:27:10,339
We're again, under 1,000 square feet in the wetland, and we're actually

344
00:27:10,399 --> 00:27:11,358
enhancing the buffer.

345
00:27:14,988 --> 00:27:20,149
Moving on to D, the proposed activity incorporates the use of those best management

346
00:27:20,178 --> 00:27:24,843
practices recommended by the New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services

347
00:27:24,919 --> 00:27:30,822
and/or other state agencies having jurisdictions And the answer to this is, yes, we

348
00:27:30,882 --> 00:27:33,822
are employing best management practices.

349
00:27:34,513 --> 00:27:37,182
Those will be followed through the completion of the project.

350
00:27:37,842 --> 00:27:42,402
In addition to the best management practices, additional project

351
00:27:44,263 --> 00:27:49,393
redesign of the stormwater management area was done, where we're not only meeting

352
00:27:49,513 --> 00:27:55,033
those state standards, but we've relocated the stormwater to meet local

353
00:27:55,542 --> 00:28:00,792
requests and increased buffer restoration with this design.

354
00:28:01,302 --> 00:28:05,982
And so we certainly feel we're meeting and exceeding those requirements.

355
00:28:07,932 --> 00:28:09,192
Moving on to E,

356
00:28:11,533 --> 00:28:15,447
all applicable federal and/or state permits have been received for the proposed

357
00:28:15,522 --> 00:28:18,102
activity in accordance with the New Hampshire code.

358
00:28:19,092 --> 00:28:21,882
And then it references that section.

359
00:28:24,132 --> 00:28:29,953
Those permits have not been secured yet, but we look

360
00:28:30,013 --> 00:28:34,107
forward to applying for them. So those are typically standard conditions of

361
00:28:34,152 --> 00:28:39,057
approval. So we just stated such in this conditional use permit, that the New

362
00:28:39,072 --> 00:28:42,852
Hampshire DES Wetlands Bureau standard dredge and fill permit will be required.

363
00:28:43,917 --> 00:28:47,203
Their alteration of terrain permit will be required.

364
00:28:47,592 --> 00:28:50,742
The Subsurface Bureau approvals will be required.

365
00:28:51,072 --> 00:28:55,542
State subdivision approval is required in New Hampshire.

366
00:28:55,872 --> 00:29:01,542
DOT access permits are required. We look forward to successfully completing

367
00:29:01,692 --> 00:29:03,102
that permit process.

368
00:29:05,322 --> 00:29:06,972
As you move on to F,

369
00:29:08,712 --> 00:29:10,152
where applicable,

370
00:29:13,542 --> 00:29:17,292
proof of application to all required state or federal permits.

371
00:29:17,382 --> 00:29:22,063
And, we put that this isn't necessarily applicable because we have to apply to

372
00:29:22,092 --> 00:29:26,112
those in order to secure final approval, typically.

373
00:29:26,172 --> 00:29:30,013
So, we would hope that the board would consider those conditions, and I think that

374
00:29:30,072 --> 00:29:35,112
would be consistent with standard practice. Moving on to G.

375
00:29:38,442 --> 00:29:42,013
Prior to making a decision in regard to the possible approval of any conditional

376
00:29:42,072 --> 00:29:43,813
use permit, just outlines

377
00:29:45,342 --> 00:29:47,052
what the planning board should do.

378
00:29:47,172 --> 00:29:51,252
So I'm not sure we have to necessarily address that particular item.

379
00:29:51,313 --> 00:29:56,832
I'm happy to read it for consideration, but it's really a statement under the

380
00:29:56,862 --> 00:30:02,412
regulations. And then it goes through a number of items that we have to

381
00:30:02,442 --> 00:30:06,942
address within the plans, and we do believe we've addressed all of those criteria.

382
00:30:08,862 --> 00:30:13,302
It basically is a checklist of, do you have these elements within the plan set?

383
00:30:13,393 --> 00:30:16,002
Which we certainly do.

384
00:30:21,192 --> 00:30:26,563
We did do the functions and values for the wetland

385
00:30:26,622 --> 00:30:28,842
area as part of this application.

386
00:30:30,763 --> 00:30:33,042
And that was outlined within the report.

387
00:30:33,313 --> 00:30:36,192
I'm just touching on all the items in here.

388
00:30:37,362 --> 00:30:41,951
We provide computation of the impacts that we're talking about.

389
00:30:43,182 --> 00:30:48,552
We did provide for the stormwater management report that was ultimately reviewed

390
00:30:48,912 --> 00:30:49,242
through

391
00:30:51,192 --> 00:30:52,752
the peer review.

392
00:30:54,042 --> 00:30:59,502
We addressed the volume of the stormwater as well as the peak rate.

393
00:31:00,132 --> 00:31:05,306
Ultimately, it was verified that we are providing the required infiltration

394
00:31:05,352 --> 00:31:08,682
on-site that's required by the state permit as well.

395
00:31:08,742 --> 00:31:13,992
A lot of the criteria locally mirrors the New Hampshire DES alteration of terrain

396
00:31:14,052 --> 00:31:17,337
requirements. So, certainly by default, we've addressed that.

397
00:31:17,742 --> 00:31:21,192
We do have erosion and sedimentation controls in the plan set.

398
00:31:21,222 --> 00:31:26,367
That's one of the requirements. Maintenance for those

399
00:31:27,643 --> 00:31:31,122
is a requirement. Certainly as part of the

400
00:31:33,252 --> 00:31:36,042
state permitting, we go through the NHB screening.

401
00:31:36,102 --> 00:31:38,862
We've done that on this project a number of times.

402
00:31:38,893 --> 00:31:43,722
We actually had a wildlife study completed for this project that you may recall, or

403
00:31:44,412 --> 00:31:45,852
maybe you guys have taken a look at.

404
00:31:46,092 --> 00:31:51,402
So we definitely addressed all of that criteria back when we

405
00:31:52,242 --> 00:31:57,432
were originally talking about this and during the conditional use permit phase.

406
00:31:57,462 --> 00:32:01,902
There's no hazardous material storage proposed or anticipated on this site.

407
00:32:01,992 --> 00:32:06,942
So that addresses one of the other elements.

408
00:32:08,533 --> 00:32:13,932
We do intend to prohibit the use of lawn chemicals and de-icing compounds, and so

409
00:32:13,992 --> 00:32:17,922
that's one of the things that we had committed to as well.

410
00:32:21,162 --> 00:32:25,542
Within the buffer area? Is that what you're talking about, or on the entire site?

411
00:32:28,482 --> 00:32:30,372
I believe we noted that

412
00:32:32,143 --> 00:32:38,022
within the-- I think we agreed to that with the entire site, for the chemicals.

413
00:32:39,732 --> 00:32:42,372
Yeah, that's my recollection. The-

414
00:32:44,143 --> 00:32:46,033
So the UNH ag requirements.

415
00:32:46,182 --> 00:32:47,563
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

416
00:32:49,182 --> 00:32:52,601
We have the construction sequencing and everything defined within the plan set.

417
00:32:53,862 --> 00:32:58,092
We detailed the edge of the jurisdictional areas and everything within the plan

418
00:32:58,182 --> 00:33:04,092
set. And then within the package, there's all the supporting information

419
00:33:04,152 --> 00:33:07,692
and such. So I definitely think we've addressed the criteria.

420
00:33:08,742 --> 00:33:13,902
I think the favorable feedback that we received from the Conservation Commission

421
00:33:14,143 --> 00:33:18,072
speaks to that. I can assure you the first few letters were not favorable.

422
00:33:18,763 --> 00:33:18,942
Mm-hmm.

423
00:33:18,972 --> 00:33:22,513
And so we worked diligently to address those early on in this project.

424
00:33:25,393 --> 00:33:26,682
You all set? You done?

425
00:33:26,742 --> 00:33:28,002
That's what I have for now, Mr. Chairman.

426
00:33:28,063 --> 00:33:30,567
I'm happy to try to answer any questions you may have.

427
00:33:30,597 --> 00:33:32,563
Yep. Why don't we go around with some questions?

428
00:33:34,482 --> 00:33:37,542
If I can do them. So

429
00:33:39,283 --> 00:33:43,393
did you apply for a wetland permit on the previous application or no?

430
00:33:43,647 --> 00:33:43,647
No.

431
00:33:43,842 --> 00:33:48,192
So you haven't made an application to DES for a wetland permit.

432
00:33:48,552 --> 00:33:50,352
You're going through the town first, right?

433
00:33:50,922 --> 00:33:53,263
Correct. We did not make a formal application.

434
00:33:53,352 --> 00:33:58,602
We consulted with the Wetlands Bureau and with the Fish and Game, early on.

435
00:33:58,692 --> 00:34:03,192
The wildlife biologist that we had working on the project, I do believe, had some

436
00:34:03,252 --> 00:34:06,551
communications with them as well. But we never made a formal application.

437
00:34:06,763 --> 00:34:12,552
Okay. But with 550 square feet of impact, does that qualify for an expedited

438
00:34:12,612 --> 00:34:13,002
minimum?

439
00:34:13,362 --> 00:34:13,783
It does.

440
00:34:14,052 --> 00:34:19,783
So that just so the board's aware, that's the lowest level of DES

441
00:34:19,873 --> 00:34:24,612
wetland permit, where as long as the Con Com signs off on it,

442
00:34:25,932 --> 00:34:29,007
they can get an expedited review and approval of the permit.

443
00:34:29,143 --> 00:34:29,412
So-

444
00:34:29,743 --> 00:34:30,342
That's correct.

445
00:34:30,522 --> 00:34:34,453
Okay. That was my question. Oh, one other thing.

446
00:34:35,442 --> 00:34:37,182
In the stormwater treatment,

447
00:34:41,382 --> 00:34:46,362
you had said that the majority of the stormwater runoff was going to be

448
00:34:46,422 --> 00:34:47,533
infiltrated, right?

449
00:34:47,862 --> 00:34:48,013
Mm-hmm.

450
00:34:48,252 --> 00:34:52,783
So is it like the 25-year storm or the 50-year storm that overflows into the

451
00:34:53,862 --> 00:34:54,312
wetland?

452
00:34:54,822 --> 00:34:58,572
That's a great question. I could pull up the stormwater report.

453
00:34:58,812 --> 00:35:00,357
It's my recollection that,

454
00:35:02,143 --> 00:35:07,422
in the 50-year storm, I think we start getting some flows, but we have a

455
00:35:07,452 --> 00:35:09,612
reduction in all the storms.

456
00:35:09,792 --> 00:35:10,062
Okay.

457
00:35:10,272 --> 00:35:15,702
And so even though we get some flow through the 50-year storm, we're still

458
00:35:15,762 --> 00:35:18,852
mitigating those impacts.

459
00:35:19,002 --> 00:35:22,542
What I was thinking about was, where is that

460
00:35:24,672 --> 00:35:27,972
inlet or outlet from the pond in terms of elevation?

461
00:35:28,512 --> 00:35:34,302
Because you wouldn't want to have water sitting in that pond to the extent that

462
00:35:34,332 --> 00:35:40,242
it's ever going to sit in that pond and gain temperature and then have

463
00:35:40,272 --> 00:35:45,942
that flow. I'm not concerned about the, you get up and you get overflow

464
00:35:46,752 --> 00:35:48,042
because that's all-

465
00:35:48,102 --> 00:35:48,357
Yeah

466
00:35:48,357 --> 00:35:52,362
... clean and clear and cold water. Right?

467
00:35:52,393 --> 00:35:57,537
But if you have water sitting there and it overflows into the pond, then that is

468
00:35:57,582 --> 00:36:01,662
likely to be higher temperature and Witchery Brook is very sensitive to

469
00:36:01,752 --> 00:36:03,342
temperature, as I'm sure you're aware.

470
00:36:04,032 --> 00:36:09,402
Yeah. And the pond has to drain within, and I'm not suggesting it takes this long,

471
00:36:09,462 --> 00:36:11,082
but within 72 hours.

472
00:36:12,102 --> 00:36:12,117
Okay.

473
00:36:12,117 --> 00:36:14,952
And so it's designed, this particular

474
00:36:16,362 --> 00:36:21,702
basin is designed to, whether it's infiltration or metering flows out in

475
00:36:21,762 --> 00:36:24,762
combination, that's the design element.

476
00:36:24,852 --> 00:36:25,782
Okay. All right.

477
00:36:26,232 --> 00:36:29,877
And so we're not looking to hold it for long periods of time and just-

478
00:36:29,907 --> 00:36:31,197
So it's not extended detention. It's-

479
00:36:31,227 --> 00:36:33,192
Correct. Which is when it would heat up. Yeah.

480
00:36:33,252 --> 00:36:35,382
Okay. That's all. Okay.

481
00:36:37,062 --> 00:36:41,052
Got a few questions. This first one's going to probably sound stupid, but-

482
00:36:41,532 --> 00:36:47,442
You made the comment relating to the bridge, that area, we have

483
00:36:47,502 --> 00:36:50,292
to cross it. Why exactly do we have to cross it?

484
00:36:52,362 --> 00:36:54,222
Well, it bisects the property.

485
00:36:55,422 --> 00:37:00,522
And so, it runs all the way through the property.

486
00:37:00,537 --> 00:37:06,117
And so in order to have any kind of internal layout for a development, you would

487
00:37:07,422 --> 00:37:13,152
have to cross that area. And one of the things that I want to

488
00:37:13,302 --> 00:37:18,567
be clear about is the layout has already been reviewed and

489
00:37:18,612 --> 00:37:23,862
approved by this board through the conditional use permit process.

490
00:37:23,922 --> 00:37:29,472
Like that, when you're evaluating the IHO conditional use permit,

491
00:37:29,862 --> 00:37:35,442
you're evaluating the layout, all the elements that you can get a density bonus

492
00:37:35,532 --> 00:37:37,572
for. Is it harmonious with the neighborhood?

493
00:37:37,632 --> 00:37:41,757
Those things were evaluated through that layout.

494
00:37:41,802 --> 00:37:47,352
And so, it was determined by the board at that time that it was reasonable

495
00:37:47,772 --> 00:37:51,162
to cross this wetland, as long as we do it in the right location.

496
00:37:52,572 --> 00:37:57,312
And so, when you look at a community like this, in order for it to be a true

497
00:37:57,852 --> 00:38:03,643
community and have the right means of ingress and egress, I

498
00:38:03,672 --> 00:38:07,873
think you have to, in my opinion, you have to cross this wetland to tie everything

499
00:38:07,902 --> 00:38:08,262
together.

500
00:38:09,252 --> 00:38:12,612
Okay. And I guess, kind of along those same lines,

501
00:38:14,262 --> 00:38:18,402
that particular section, H2, that you referenced, construction of streets and

502
00:38:18,492 --> 00:38:24,102
roads, says if-- maybe permitted if-- or that's my words, maybe permitted if.

503
00:38:24,312 --> 00:38:29,352
If it's essential to the productive use of land beyond the wetland and watershed

504
00:38:29,442 --> 00:38:30,762
conservation district.

505
00:38:32,472 --> 00:38:38,352
I'm just curious, and I guess I'll follow up with that, and it says, "Such

506
00:38:38,382 --> 00:38:42,373
construction may be permitted within the district only when no viable alternative

507
00:38:42,402 --> 00:38:47,652
is available." So as far as the productive land goes, all of the productive land is

508
00:38:47,682 --> 00:38:49,452
accessible via the frontage, is it not?

509
00:38:50,802 --> 00:38:53,217
It is, but you're restricted in curb cuts from

510
00:38:54,672 --> 00:38:58,707
DOT. So there's so many things that we're contemplating.

511
00:38:58,752 --> 00:39:04,498
It's really hard to evaluate this project now on that particular statement.

512
00:39:04,992 --> 00:39:09,672
I think what we have to do is understand that this project has been evaluated in

513
00:39:09,702 --> 00:39:15,432
the past on that same standard, because what we've provided with this layout is

514
00:39:15,492 --> 00:39:18,282
significant buffering to the abutting lands.

515
00:39:19,002 --> 00:39:24,162
We've provided recreational areas that can be used by the community and by the

516
00:39:24,192 --> 00:39:29,922
public. And so when you go through, and we don't have the innovative integrated

517
00:39:29,982 --> 00:39:35,502
housing ordinance anymore, but when that ordinance was live and when you went

518
00:39:35,592 --> 00:39:41,082
through what is the type of project that would make sense and are we willing to

519
00:39:41,143 --> 00:39:45,582
give you a density bonus based on so many different criteria?

520
00:39:46,182 --> 00:39:49,751
You, the board, is evaluating a layout.

521
00:39:50,082 --> 00:39:54,072
And so they're evaluating, is this the right development for the project?

522
00:39:54,132 --> 00:39:59,772
Because you can't give somebody a density bonus credit on open space unless you

523
00:39:59,832 --> 00:40:03,252
determine that, yeah, that open space is appropriate.

524
00:40:03,342 --> 00:40:07,498
You can't give them a density bonus on, and I say this,

525
00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:12,492
not that it's defined this way, but this is the process that we went through.

526
00:40:12,972 --> 00:40:17,952
We didn't get the density bonus on trails unless we could prove that it

527
00:40:18,672 --> 00:40:23,143
serviced the whole community, had the potential to tie into the surroundings.

528
00:40:23,172 --> 00:40:26,847
And if you're evaluating that, you're evaluating the layout.

529
00:40:27,117 --> 00:40:33,042
And so that's why the fact that we have that conditional use permit

530
00:40:34,302 --> 00:40:39,132
speaks to the reasonable nature of this layout and the fact that this layout was

531
00:40:39,222 --> 00:40:45,132
approved by this board and never considered as two separate pods bisected

532
00:40:45,192 --> 00:40:46,002
by a pad.

533
00:40:47,292 --> 00:40:48,822
Well, I guess just to follow up on that.

534
00:40:48,882 --> 00:40:54,732
In the conditional use discussion, you didn't know how many units there

535
00:40:54,762 --> 00:41:00,552
were, so you obviously couldn't have had a final plan available, a final layout.

536
00:41:00,942 --> 00:41:01,393
Well, we had-

537
00:41:01,452 --> 00:41:02,802
More conceptual at that point

538
00:41:02,922 --> 00:41:08,712
... we had 61 units in the beginning, and then we were evaluating 61

539
00:41:08,802 --> 00:41:13,182
units with the planning board back in 2019, '18.

540
00:41:14,802 --> 00:41:19,332
And the board landed on-- And so we lost units through that evaluation.

541
00:41:19,812 --> 00:41:25,212
In order to evaluate units, you have to evaluate a layout, and how that layout

542
00:41:26,382 --> 00:41:30,582
exists on the plan, what the inherent impacts are, what the buffers are.

543
00:41:31,002 --> 00:41:32,893
It was a very

544
00:41:34,242 --> 00:41:39,672
interactive review. And the board landed on up to 54

545
00:41:39,732 --> 00:41:45,312
units because they liked the plan that we were able to generate at

546
00:41:45,492 --> 00:41:49,152
54 units. They liked the buffering. They liked all the amenities.

547
00:41:50,352 --> 00:41:55,212
And that plan, and I can pull it up, is exactly like this plan and shows this

548
00:41:55,272 --> 00:41:57,402
crossing exactly where we have it today.

549
00:41:58,812 --> 00:41:58,992
Okay.

550
00:42:01,602 --> 00:42:04,542
So I guess that's really the issue I'm having with this.

551
00:42:04,752 --> 00:42:04,782
I

552
00:42:06,643 --> 00:42:09,852
hear what you're saying on the other things, but it's also fair to say that the

553
00:42:09,882 --> 00:42:13,272
wetlands permit never came up during that session, so.

554
00:42:13,587 --> 00:42:18,282
Well, it absolutely did. We applied for it. It was actively on the table.

555
00:42:18,342 --> 00:42:20,352
I think the staff memo clearly states that.

556
00:42:20,367 --> 00:42:20,862
It was on the table.

557
00:42:21,072 --> 00:42:22,992
We submitted it in 2021.

558
00:42:23,262 --> 00:42:23,472
Yeah.

559
00:42:23,532 --> 00:42:26,143
We have a support letter from the Conservation Commission.

560
00:42:26,442 --> 00:42:31,512
They evaluated this conditional use permit. It absolutely was part of the plan.

561
00:42:31,572 --> 00:42:36,582
Yeah. I'm just having a hard time getting past the thing saying,

562
00:42:36,627 --> 00:42:42,102
"This may be permitted when there are no other viable alternatives."

563
00:42:42,762 --> 00:42:44,577
And I just don't think that's the case here.

564
00:42:45,522 --> 00:42:45,657
It's also-

565
00:42:46,393 --> 00:42:46,542
Huh?

566
00:42:46,932 --> 00:42:51,252
I don't mean to interrupt you. It's also a site with existing crossings as well.

567
00:42:51,342 --> 00:42:54,822
And as mentioned by Chad, a manmade wetland that's being improved through

568
00:42:55,182 --> 00:43:00,222
thoughtful revegetation and appropriate size by the various pieces of it.

569
00:43:00,282 --> 00:43:04,482
So the condition to this wetland is improved by the proposal in front of you.

570
00:43:05,802 --> 00:43:10,962
It could be. But this says we can't permit it if there's another alternative for

571
00:43:10,976 --> 00:43:14,412
accessing the productive land. Which there is.

572
00:43:14,952 --> 00:43:19,152
Where your curb cuts are now are more than sufficient to access all the permitted

573
00:43:19,902 --> 00:43:22,092
land, or the productive land.

574
00:43:22,123 --> 00:43:27,402
Well, I would state for the record that this board deemed that this crossing was

575
00:43:27,492 --> 00:43:31,212
necessary and appropriate as part of the review of this project.

576
00:43:31,542 --> 00:43:35,682
We wouldn't be how many years down the road.

577
00:43:36,192 --> 00:43:42,072
This wasn't a shot in the dark. The conditional use permit was part of

578
00:43:42,132 --> 00:43:42,702
the review.

579
00:43:44,292 --> 00:43:47,922
In the beginning, it was part of the-- this board, the planning board, the same

580
00:43:47,982 --> 00:43:52,092
board that approved the conditional use permit for the IHO with the layout,

581
00:43:53,832 --> 00:43:59,562
approved this layout. And I think this board does have the latitude to

582
00:43:59,592 --> 00:44:04,512
approve a crossing, especially if it's a crossing-- And if you read that section,

583
00:44:04,632 --> 00:44:09,748
you read all the words. It says, "Unless appropriate mitigation is provided."

584
00:44:10,498 --> 00:44:16,393
And at the time, the appropriate mitigation was reestablishing the

585
00:44:16,452 --> 00:44:21,042
vegetation through this corridor, the buffer through this corridor, and the fact

586
00:44:21,072 --> 00:44:24,462
that the crossing is minimal in nature.

587
00:44:25,123 --> 00:44:29,172
And the board weighed that with all the amenities.

588
00:44:29,772 --> 00:44:34,542
It's somewhat challenging. I think your job is challenging, and I'll respect that

589
00:44:34,932 --> 00:44:36,612
because the regulation doesn't exist.

590
00:44:37,752 --> 00:44:43,062
But at the time, this was the regulation that the town wanted, and they were

591
00:44:43,092 --> 00:44:49,018
evaluating it on its merits. And one of the things that was important to the board,

592
00:44:49,062 --> 00:44:52,902
and I can't speak for the board, but I can share the dialogue, was creating a

593
00:44:52,962 --> 00:44:56,382
community and creating a neighborhood.

594
00:44:57,012 --> 00:45:00,282
And you don't create that if you're parceling it out.

595
00:45:03,042 --> 00:45:06,732
Okay. Lisa. You want me to mention Lisa?

596
00:45:06,852 --> 00:45:08,637
Oh, I don't think we should mention her.

597
00:45:08,742 --> 00:45:09,282
Doug?

598
00:45:09,432 --> 00:45:09,612
No.

599
00:45:10,482 --> 00:45:14,922
No. So just one second. Anyone from the audience have any comments?

600
00:45:17,172 --> 00:45:17,292
No.

601
00:45:19,393 --> 00:45:23,232
Nobody online. Okay. You go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

602
00:45:24,912 --> 00:45:25,422
It's okay?

603
00:45:25,842 --> 00:45:26,832
Yes, go ahead.

604
00:45:27,192 --> 00:45:28,873
Jeanne Lout, Three School Street.

605
00:45:29,922 --> 00:45:33,252
It's just really hard to keep up because

606
00:45:34,632 --> 00:45:40,182
this project has a history, and I just wondered if someone could share

607
00:45:40,242 --> 00:45:45,666
with me. It seems like- Um, there have been some improvements made since the last

608
00:45:45,726 --> 00:45:46,596
time I attended

609
00:45:48,067 --> 00:45:51,276
this presentation on this project.

610
00:45:52,626 --> 00:45:54,216
But I'm just trying to remember,

611
00:45:55,567 --> 00:46:00,096
was it rejected by the planning board at the time?

612
00:46:01,326 --> 00:46:02,677
And what were the reasons?

613
00:46:05,047 --> 00:46:05,256
The

614
00:46:06,456 --> 00:46:11,496
site plan was rejected. And I believe the reasoning was it was damaging to rural

615
00:46:11,586 --> 00:46:11,976
character.

616
00:46:13,326 --> 00:46:16,431
Is that correct? That was the board's rejection for it.

617
00:46:16,536 --> 00:46:20,286
It was then overturned at the Housing Appeals Board and upheld by the Supreme

618
00:46:20,346 --> 00:46:22,746
Court. Yeah. So that was the reason.

619
00:46:23,106 --> 00:46:28,986
So has anything changed regarding the issue of rural character being

620
00:46:29,047 --> 00:46:29,616
a problem?

621
00:46:30,096 --> 00:46:34,536
Well, the only thing that's changed is the judge specifically ordered this board to

622
00:46:34,626 --> 00:46:35,826
not consider that issue.

623
00:46:37,236 --> 00:46:38,885
He said that horse has left the barn.

624
00:46:39,996 --> 00:46:45,876
So, that's off the table for us to consider per the

625
00:46:45,936 --> 00:46:48,006
judge's instructions in the order.

626
00:46:50,047 --> 00:46:50,976
Okay. Thank you.

627
00:46:54,021 --> 00:46:57,396
Yeah. Okay. No other comments? I guess we'll come back to the board.

628
00:46:57,456 --> 00:47:01,956
I don't know whether the board thinks we're ready to have a discussion and a vote

629
00:47:02,016 --> 00:47:06,996
on this, or if we want to hold off for the time being and move on to the next set

630
00:47:07,056 --> 00:47:07,836
of criteria.

631
00:47:08,317 --> 00:47:09,666
Hold on, we have one more though.

632
00:47:10,026 --> 00:47:11,706
We have what? Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

633
00:47:12,666 --> 00:47:14,736
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know. I'm sorry.

634
00:47:15,396 --> 00:47:19,956
Just a little Luke Trevel Street, chair of the Heritage Commission.

635
00:47:21,456 --> 00:47:26,677
If I heard right, Tom, whenever you made a statement that

636
00:47:27,396 --> 00:47:31,506
the Supreme Court said that you could not judge or

637
00:47:33,396 --> 00:47:39,366
maintaining the rural character could not be judged in this particular

638
00:47:39,456 --> 00:47:39,906
plan?

639
00:47:40,806 --> 00:47:45,666
Yes, and the reason being is that the judge specifically said that that was an item

640
00:47:45,726 --> 00:47:49,596
that should've been addressed as a conditional use permit stage.

641
00:47:50,616 --> 00:47:55,297
That's one of the criteria for approving a conditional use permit, which they did

642
00:47:55,356 --> 00:47:55,656
get.

643
00:47:57,006 --> 00:47:57,396
Okay.

644
00:47:58,626 --> 00:48:02,181
Yeah, the other thing I wish... This has been going on since, what?

645
00:48:02,346 --> 00:48:08,317
2019, 2018, roughly. It would be nice if the public had a

646
00:48:08,376 --> 00:48:14,286
Venn diagram of the process that a planning board goes

647
00:48:14,346 --> 00:48:18,442
through. Just a one-pager that steps through the CUP, and

648
00:48:19,956 --> 00:48:25,911
reviews and all that. Because like what Jeannie said, you get lost in some of the

649
00:48:26,016 --> 00:48:31,896
detail for the public, and I think that would be a good service that the planning

650
00:48:31,927 --> 00:48:34,776
board could do for the town. If there's just a one...

651
00:48:34,986 --> 00:48:40,911
Maybe there is something already out there that you could easily see, easily look

652
00:48:40,986 --> 00:48:46,956
at and say, "Hey, it should be at this stage, but it's not," or vice versa.

653
00:48:47,946 --> 00:48:52,776
And if somebody from the planning board wants to work on that, I will help them.

654
00:48:54,486 --> 00:48:54,756
Okay?

655
00:48:55,026 --> 00:48:55,776
Yeah. Thank you.

656
00:48:56,166 --> 00:48:56,317
Yeah.

657
00:48:56,345 --> 00:48:59,405
It'd just be a little difficult sometimes because every application's different.

658
00:48:59,766 --> 00:49:04,356
Not every application requires a conditional use permit or things like that.

659
00:49:04,386 --> 00:49:07,116
There could be waivers involved.

660
00:49:07,206 --> 00:49:08,976
Mr. Chairman, if I might.

661
00:49:08,991 --> 00:49:08,991
Yeah. Sure.

662
00:49:09,036 --> 00:49:14,241
Well, this project is unique

663
00:49:15,547 --> 00:49:21,456
in that it was approved, the conditional use permit was approved, and the site plan

664
00:49:21,516 --> 00:49:25,476
was denied under the IIHO, which subsequently went away.

665
00:49:25,836 --> 00:49:28,866
So this process doesn't exist anymore.

666
00:49:30,666 --> 00:49:36,186
But here we are. And the judge, it went to the Supreme Court, and it was remanded

667
00:49:36,246 --> 00:49:40,146
back to us for action with limited review.

668
00:49:40,746 --> 00:49:45,486
So that's where we are, whether any of us like it.

669
00:49:45,547 --> 00:49:48,547
I'm sure the applicant has had enough of this process as well.

670
00:49:50,616 --> 00:49:56,166
But that's where we are. So this particular process is not going to happen

671
00:49:56,256 --> 00:49:59,661
again until we, in our wisdom, might

672
00:50:01,086 --> 00:50:05,286
adopt other zoning that would allow for this to take place.

673
00:50:05,766 --> 00:50:10,686
Yeah. That Venn diagram I was talking about was not for the IIHO in the least.

674
00:50:10,776 --> 00:50:16,266
It was for a nominal application that comes through. What are the steps?

675
00:50:16,297 --> 00:50:18,036
Because I think that would help the public.

676
00:50:19,297 --> 00:50:22,026
Maybe there'd be more hearing from the public.

677
00:50:24,996 --> 00:50:25,686
With that as well.

678
00:50:26,106 --> 00:50:26,466
Okay.

679
00:50:27,096 --> 00:50:28,116
So if you're welcome to reach out to us-

680
00:50:28,146 --> 00:50:32,346
I'll be running stuff, that research stuff before.

681
00:50:33,396 --> 00:50:34,116
Okay. Thank you.

682
00:50:37,297 --> 00:50:37,536
Okay.

683
00:50:38,916 --> 00:50:44,196
I think one question I have is has the lawyer reviewed all of the HOA

684
00:50:44,286 --> 00:50:46,536
documents and has any concerns?

685
00:50:46,596 --> 00:50:48,936
Well, we're not dealing with that part of it yet.

686
00:50:49,236 --> 00:50:50,047
Not yet? Okay.

687
00:50:50,286 --> 00:50:50,466
Yeah.

688
00:50:50,526 --> 00:50:51,216
That's too late.

689
00:50:51,726 --> 00:50:53,016
That'll be the next discussion.

690
00:50:53,736 --> 00:50:59,317
So I guess I feel like we certainly have enough information on the

691
00:51:01,266 --> 00:51:06,966
wetland and watershed conservation district conditional use permit to act on it.

692
00:51:07,086 --> 00:51:11,061
So I would like to make a motion, if that's appropriate.

693
00:51:11,076 --> 00:51:11,976
Sure. Go ahead.

694
00:51:15,396 --> 00:51:17,601
I move that the board finds the application,

695
00:51:19,057 --> 00:51:22,491
satisfies the criteria of Section 4.11I1

696
00:51:25,057 --> 00:51:30,006
of the zoning ordinance, addressing the findings required for approval of

697
00:51:30,036 --> 00:51:35,797
conditional use permit for the Wetlands and Watershed Conservation District, and

698
00:51:35,826 --> 00:51:39,802
further, that the board finds the application satisfies the criteria of Section

699
00:51:40,116 --> 00:51:45,936
4.11H2 of the zoning ordinance addressing findings required for

700
00:51:45,996 --> 00:51:49,446
approval of construction of streets, roads, and other access ways.

701
00:51:49,506 --> 00:51:51,427
And further, to approve Case

702
00:51:51,576 --> 00:51:58,266
PZ13773-0211221

703
00:51:58,326 --> 00:52:03,351
for Gann Realty Trust, for a conditional use permit to construct a private road

704
00:52:03,396 --> 00:52:08,075
across a wetland and a 100-foot buffer area in the Wetland and Watershed

705
00:52:08,136 --> 00:52:12,277
Conservation District with the following conditions, and the conditions precedent

706
00:52:12,366 --> 00:52:17,766
are indicated in the staff memo of September 2, 2026.

707
00:52:17,826 --> 00:52:20,496
If you'd like, I can read those into the record.

708
00:52:20,616 --> 00:52:21,427
Go ahead. Sure.

709
00:52:22,716 --> 00:52:27,036
Submission of plans. Conditions precedent, submission of the plans and other

710
00:52:27,096 --> 00:52:27,966
documentation.

711
00:52:31,236 --> 00:52:35,826
And I'm summarizing here. Two submissions, submission of any required legal

712
00:52:35,886 --> 00:52:38,076
language for review and approval by town council.

713
00:52:38,886 --> 00:52:43,236
Three, payment of any outstanding fees for the CUP application, including any fees

714
00:52:43,686 --> 00:52:45,936
for recording at the Hillsborough County

715
00:52:47,466 --> 00:52:52,656
Registry of Deeds as applicable. And then conditions subsequent are

716
00:52:53,706 --> 00:52:58,177
that the applicant shall comply with all of Amherst's regulations.

717
00:52:59,646 --> 00:53:03,726
That this approval is based on plan specifications and testimony submitted to the

718
00:53:03,756 --> 00:53:07,791
planning board. Any alterations, additions, or changes to the plans are not

719
00:53:07,896 --> 00:53:12,307
authorized and may require additional planning board approval.

720
00:53:12,396 --> 00:53:17,736
And three, subsequent substantial construction must commence within one year of

721
00:53:17,841 --> 00:53:19,837
planning board approval of the conditional use permit.

722
00:53:20,557 --> 00:53:24,337
If construction is not commenced within this period, the conditional use permit may

723
00:53:24,396 --> 00:53:30,006
be extended for up to one additional year upon approval with the Amherst

724
00:53:30,216 --> 00:53:31,087
Planning Board.

725
00:53:33,307 --> 00:53:35,106
So that's my motion.

726
00:53:36,516 --> 00:53:37,566
Is there a second anywhere?

727
00:53:37,807 --> 00:53:38,256
I second.

728
00:53:39,096 --> 00:53:44,166
Okay. So ask for discussion. Start over on your side, Doug. I love it.

729
00:53:45,337 --> 00:53:45,636
Lisa?

730
00:53:46,656 --> 00:53:51,500
I just feel like they have fulfilled, especially with the Conservation Commission,

731
00:53:51,666 --> 00:53:57,291
their comments, that means a lot. So, and the fact that they kind of said, "Don't

732
00:53:57,366 --> 00:54:01,777
change anything this time around," because they didn't change anything, I feel

733
00:54:01,837 --> 00:54:05,136
confident that they met the spirit and intent of it.

734
00:54:06,696 --> 00:54:12,606
Okay. I'm going to echo some of my earlier comments, which that particular

735
00:54:12,636 --> 00:54:17,811
part of the use ordinance says that the construction of streets, roads, and other

736
00:54:17,886 --> 00:54:18,696
access ways

737
00:54:20,797 --> 00:54:25,266
may be constructed if essential to the productive use of land beyond the Wetland

738
00:54:25,297 --> 00:54:28,927
and Watershed Conservation District. I just don't think that's true.

739
00:54:29,136 --> 00:54:34,326
It's all accessible via the frontage, and it can be accessed by the three proposed

740
00:54:35,587 --> 00:54:37,386
access ways on the plan.

741
00:54:40,386 --> 00:54:45,307
And it says such construction may be permitted within the district only when no

742
00:54:45,337 --> 00:54:46,837
viable alternative is available.

743
00:54:48,060 --> 00:54:50,266
And there absolutely is a viable alternative.

744
00:54:50,310 --> 00:54:55,740
There are viable alternatives available. So as a result, I'm reading this strictly.

745
00:54:56,190 --> 00:54:59,101
I understand that plan probably was reviewed by the prior board.

746
00:54:59,550 --> 00:55:04,891
We weren't a part of that. I'm reading this strict reading of it, and as far as I'm

747
00:55:04,951 --> 00:55:07,409
concerned, it doesn't meet that. So thank you.

748
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:09,570
I have nothing.

749
00:55:11,851 --> 00:55:16,920
So I'm struggling a little bit because I agree with Lisa's comments with regards to

750
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,971
conservation and coming back, but I also agree with you, Tom.

751
00:55:21,030 --> 00:55:26,940
I guess where I'm struggling is I can still see it as a community, even if

752
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,540
it's not a continuous roadway through it.

753
00:55:31,065 --> 00:55:36,601
So right now, that's kind of torn. I take into account

754
00:55:37,201 --> 00:55:40,920
comments that are made by the other boards and I take that under consideration.

755
00:55:41,310 --> 00:55:47,190
But I agree with you that I don't visualize a need for a

756
00:55:47,250 --> 00:55:47,910
continuous

757
00:55:49,231 --> 00:55:53,910
road there because you could still have a community built.

758
00:55:54,330 --> 00:55:56,101
So I'm kind of struggling right now.

759
00:55:59,310 --> 00:56:04,231
I agree. That's where I'm struggling, too, and you were talking about that road.

760
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:05,490
Part of it too is,

761
00:56:06,690 --> 00:56:12,630
we're talking about a half acre of permanent buffer removal. Roughly half acre.

762
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:16,080
A little shy of half an acre. So it's not a small amount that we're talking about

763
00:56:16,110 --> 00:56:16,290
here.

764
00:56:16,351 --> 00:56:18,270
It's 5,000 square feet.

765
00:56:18,481 --> 00:56:18,810
Buffer.

766
00:56:19,050 --> 00:56:19,981
500 square feet.

767
00:56:20,070 --> 00:56:21,000
That's wetland.

768
00:56:22,020 --> 00:56:24,059
Right. So the wetland impact is-

769
00:56:24,090 --> 00:56:26,370
The buffer impact is what I'm talking about.

770
00:56:27,451 --> 00:56:29,295
I don't believe that that's true.

771
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:30,090
It is true.

772
00:56:30,330 --> 00:56:33,180
Yeah. We have the road going in. It's 100 foot buffer-

773
00:56:33,330 --> 00:56:35,040
Oh, on either side

774
00:56:35,250 --> 00:56:35,266
... on either side.

775
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,090
It's about 20,000 square feet of permanent impact.

776
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:40,830
Well, but it's also

777
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,410
well over that in buffer restoration.

778
00:56:46,455 --> 00:56:51,000
And that buffer is just an unmowed hay field right now.

779
00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:55,050
And so they're proposing to restore it to native vegetation.

780
00:56:55,471 --> 00:56:58,469
It is a minimal impact.

781
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:04,530
And I'll be honest

782
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:10,351
with you, I am not a strict constructionist, and all the language

783
00:57:11,731 --> 00:57:12,870
in all of the wetland

784
00:57:17,250 --> 00:57:20,520
statutes and so forth allow for

785
00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:27,360
the notion of impact if it serves a larger purpose to the

786
00:57:27,420 --> 00:57:29,460
project, and I believe that this does.

787
00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:32,025
And not only that, but

788
00:57:33,601 --> 00:57:38,670
correct me if I'm wrong, but these are areas where there are existing crossings.

789
00:57:40,201 --> 00:57:44,580
There are areas where there's existing impacts within the buffer area.

790
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,891
Right. So I just don't see this as an issue.

791
00:57:52,351 --> 00:57:55,471
So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

792
00:57:55,710 --> 00:57:56,010
That's...

793
00:57:57,510 --> 00:58:02,550
Looking at this, this was all discussed back in 2019, 2020,

794
00:58:02,759 --> 00:58:08,580
2021. Okay. And I'm sure

795
00:58:08,701 --> 00:58:13,530
the Conservation Commission weighed in heavily at that point and everything, and I

796
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:19,471
don't believe the planning board at that time would've approved it if it

797
00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:24,240
didn't make sense. Okay. They haven't changed anything.

798
00:58:25,650 --> 00:58:30,990
I struggle a bit now with a new board going back and

799
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:36,451
changing things that had been approved. Nothing's changed.

800
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,471
Okay. And

801
00:58:42,540 --> 00:58:46,694
through other things on the subdivision application, everything,

802
00:58:49,110 --> 00:58:53,250
moving up to the Supreme Court and getting remanded back.

803
00:58:56,101 --> 00:58:56,971
I don't know if I'm not--

804
00:58:58,951 --> 00:59:01,201
What does it say for the

805
00:59:03,481 --> 00:59:08,670
integrity of rulings of the board if you get a bunch of new people in there

806
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:15,524
and they change everything? Okay, because there's nothing in this

807
00:59:17,580 --> 00:59:21,180
that is horrendous or

808
00:59:21,300 --> 00:59:27,210
doesn't pass the reasonableness test, if you

809
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:32,851
will. But I hear what you're saying, and if this was the first time through,

810
00:59:33,601 --> 00:59:36,391
I think we'd have a case, but we're now

811
00:59:37,770 --> 00:59:41,820
retrying things that had gone through before.

812
00:59:41,835 --> 00:59:46,770
And I think I agree with the board in here that the impact

813
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:51,990
is ultimately minimal at this point.

814
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,930
May I also add some stuff, Mr. Chairman?

815
00:59:55,020 --> 00:59:55,471
Sure.

816
00:59:55,530 --> 00:59:57,601
And I just want to give this in perspective.

817
00:59:57,870 --> 01:00:03,000
We went all the way to revote on this application all the way to the end, and the

818
01:00:03,210 --> 01:00:07,500
conditional use permit for wetlands was secondary to the primary application.

819
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,885
The board did not have any--

820
01:00:12,180 --> 01:00:16,201
The planning board, and I'm going to share some support for this, but the planning

821
01:00:16,260 --> 01:00:21,000
board wanted this road to connect through and to tie these projects together.

822
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,860
And that was really discussed, and I have the plan up here on a number of levels.

823
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,540
And I keep making reference to the conditional use permit under the IHO regulations

824
01:00:30,601 --> 01:00:33,030
because that is an imperative

825
01:00:34,231 --> 01:00:38,370
part of how this project was launched. It's that the layout was launched.

826
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,620
We have that approval. And so this board would be voting against the approval of

827
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,710
2019 if you vote this down.

828
01:00:48,420 --> 01:00:50,190
And I'm going to bring up some key points here.

829
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,620
The prior board did feel like this had to be connected in order to be a community.

830
01:00:55,710 --> 01:01:00,780
They also felt like we had to have sidewalks on this roadway, which is shown on the

831
01:01:00,810 --> 01:01:03,420
plan that I have in front of you on the

832
01:01:05,101 --> 01:01:09,540
west side of the road. They felt like we had to have sidewalks along the roadway

833
01:01:10,141 --> 01:01:14,490
that provided connectivity to all of the site amenities, the clubhouse.

834
01:01:14,940 --> 01:01:19,351
ADA-accessible access from all of the units to the clubhouse.

835
01:01:19,951 --> 01:01:25,141
You can't have that if you don't have a crossing where we're proposing this.

836
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:31,320
And so I would just state for the record that it is my opinion that this

837
01:01:31,410 --> 01:01:37,201
board would be contradicting the vote of January 2019

838
01:01:37,590 --> 01:01:39,990
if you didn't support this wetland application.

839
01:01:40,050 --> 01:01:44,160
We wouldn't have the Conservation Commission support if the planning board didn't

840
01:01:44,190 --> 01:01:46,141
feel that this crossing was necessary.

841
01:01:46,590 --> 01:01:51,210
Because everybody here knows that the Conservation Commission is very critical of

842
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:53,400
impacts to resource areas.

843
01:01:54,660 --> 01:01:57,360
The Conservation Commission understood.

844
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:59,715
The Conservation Commission chairman at the time, Mr.

845
01:01:59,851 --> 01:02:05,490
Klemmens, attended the planning board meetings, and this was a very thorough and

846
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:06,391
critical review.

847
01:02:07,650 --> 01:02:12,721
All I can do is share my recollection of the process and

848
01:02:13,590 --> 01:02:17,670
the pedestrian connectivity and the board.

849
01:02:18,780 --> 01:02:24,630
A strict interpretation of every rule doesn't necessarily meet

850
01:02:24,690 --> 01:02:26,835
all the regulations that existed at the time.

851
01:02:27,451 --> 01:02:32,940
The Integrated Innovative Housing Ordinance and the board that wrote and

852
01:02:32,971 --> 01:02:37,351
adopted that regulation and lobbied for it was the active board at the time we were

853
01:02:37,380 --> 01:02:40,080
in front of them reviewing this project.

854
01:02:40,410 --> 01:02:45,705
They felt like this layout, which has not changed, the wetland crossing has not

855
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:51,210
changed. The location has not changed, was needed in order to support the

856
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:55,471
risk, the findings of that IHO conditional use permit.

857
01:02:55,500 --> 01:03:00,076
And this wetlands permit was not really-- It was a rider to the site plan

858
01:03:00,090 --> 01:03:04,380
application, and there was never any issues relative to that.

859
01:03:05,101 --> 01:03:09,601
There was no inference on the denial at the planning board relative to this.

860
01:03:10,020 --> 01:03:13,800
And I think it speaks to the fact that this was not an issue.

861
01:03:14,820 --> 01:03:20,295
And I just, as one other rider to that piece, the town employs Keach Nordstrom for

862
01:03:20,370 --> 01:03:24,960
peer review, and Steve Keach is one of my favorite people in this state, but also

863
01:03:24,990 --> 01:03:30,750
an incredible stickler about if you are non-compliant, this either can't be done or

864
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,779
you need a waiver, or you need a variance or whatever the case may be.

865
01:03:34,201 --> 01:03:38,971
He's peer-reviewed this throughout and is still involved seven years later and has

866
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:44,701
never, as part of the independent peer review, said, "You can't do this." Which I

867
01:03:44,731 --> 01:03:50,340
think lies on the fact that for that to be the developable area, if you consider it

868
01:03:50,370 --> 01:03:55,050
to be, I can't remember the language specifically, but that it's the productive

869
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:55,755
development

870
01:03:56,664 --> 01:04:01,464
I think it seems as though the history of this board is that this road was

871
01:04:01,525 --> 01:04:07,044
necessary for that productivity, despite understanding you are in one understanding

872
01:04:07,074 --> 01:04:10,824
of it, that if there are curb cut availability, you can come in.

873
01:04:11,035 --> 01:04:13,914
It seems as though that wasn't how it was interpreted previously.

874
01:04:16,494 --> 01:04:19,824
Well, I guess I would also question whether

875
01:04:23,304 --> 01:04:28,194
revisions to the layout, per se, are

876
01:04:29,214 --> 01:04:31,375
permissible under the court decision.

877
01:04:35,125 --> 01:04:38,875
I don't have an answer to that. I think I wouldn't guess that.

878
01:04:39,054 --> 01:04:41,304
Speaking personally,

879
01:04:42,984 --> 01:04:43,074
I

880
01:04:44,574 --> 01:04:44,844
would

881
01:04:46,134 --> 01:04:50,155
say that this is a reasonable app, notwithstanding your reading of the

882
01:04:52,134 --> 01:04:53,334
language of the ordinance.

883
01:04:55,794 --> 01:05:01,584
I think that this is a perfectly reasonable application of our discretion.

884
01:05:03,324 --> 01:05:09,234
Can I just go back? Just two items. I think I agree with you that

885
01:05:09,354 --> 01:05:11,065
a CUP was approved, absolutely.

886
01:05:12,984 --> 01:05:16,854
That's all that was approved for this, as far as I know. Right?

887
01:05:16,868 --> 01:05:21,969
The application ultimately was denied, different reason, but CUP was

888
01:05:22,014 --> 01:05:27,954
approved. I'd be surprised if there was tons and tons of talk about this

889
01:05:27,984 --> 01:05:29,785
particular issue at the CUP stage.

890
01:05:31,884 --> 01:05:36,655
That discussion would generally, in my experience, comes up later on in the

891
01:05:36,684 --> 01:05:41,949
process. CUP is setting an initial density, and whether that project that's

892
01:05:41,994 --> 01:05:46,449
proposed met the IIHO conditions.

893
01:05:47,304 --> 01:05:52,224
We went through the design approval process, and the Conservation Commission signed

894
01:05:52,285 --> 01:05:57,264
off on this project. Your Conservation Commission is recommending approval, and

895
01:05:57,414 --> 01:06:02,349
the buffer restoration was done. Do you think that was done as part of the site

896
01:06:02,349 --> 01:06:06,834
plan or the wetlands CUP? It was done as part of the CUP.

897
01:06:07,494 --> 01:06:08,994
There would be no reason for us to-

898
01:06:09,084 --> 01:06:13,584
In any case, I guess my point is that wetlands CUP was not approved.

899
01:06:13,674 --> 01:06:14,125
Yeah.

900
01:06:14,184 --> 01:06:16,644
It wasn't approved. You may think it would've been approved.

901
01:06:16,914 --> 01:06:18,444
You might think it would've been a-

902
01:06:18,535 --> 01:06:21,474
Well, the layout was, and that's our stance.

903
01:06:21,894 --> 01:06:22,375
Could be.

904
01:06:22,464 --> 01:06:24,324
That's kind of a moot point because-

905
01:06:24,684 --> 01:06:25,914
I agree it's moot

906
01:06:26,035 --> 01:06:26,259
... but

907
01:06:28,224 --> 01:06:33,414
the fact is that in the denial for the site plan, which would have relied on the

908
01:06:33,474 --> 01:06:36,294
CUP, they sort of took it out of order apparently,

909
01:06:37,494 --> 01:06:41,724
if the CUP wasn't approved for the wetland impacts.

910
01:06:41,844 --> 01:06:43,554
But the

911
01:06:46,914 --> 01:06:47,483
wetland

912
01:06:49,254 --> 01:06:50,125
CUP

913
01:06:51,594 --> 01:06:55,824
was not a matter that was discussed as a reason for denying the plan,

914
01:06:57,414 --> 01:06:58,254
to my knowledge.

915
01:06:58,644 --> 01:07:04,074
It wasn't, and it wasn't, to turn Lionel's point, it wasn't raised in Keach

916
01:07:04,194 --> 01:07:07,854
Arnstrom's letter as an issue. It wasn't raised in the Conservation Commission

917
01:07:07,914 --> 01:07:13,494
letter as an issue. It wasn't raised anywhere as an issue, and that's all evidenced

918
01:07:13,554 --> 01:07:14,125
in the record.

919
01:07:16,644 --> 01:07:19,944
The other thing I guess I would just say, too, is we're not that board.

920
01:07:20,214 --> 01:07:22,344
This is a different board, six years later.

921
01:07:22,704 --> 01:07:23,004
Yeah.

922
01:07:23,424 --> 01:07:28,239
But in any case, I think my bottom line here is what this particular thing is

923
01:07:28,285 --> 01:07:32,275
intended for is if you own a piece of property that's completely blocked by a

924
01:07:32,334 --> 01:07:32,754
wetland,

925
01:07:34,285 --> 01:07:39,234
gives you means to access land in the back. That's not the case here.

926
01:07:39,354 --> 01:07:42,309
So anyway, we have a motion on the floor.

927
01:07:42,354 --> 01:07:44,664
Yeah, I'd like to call the question.

928
01:07:44,754 --> 01:07:48,174
Okay. So we have a motion and a second.

929
01:07:48,294 --> 01:07:52,448
All in favor of approving this wetlands CUP, say "aye."

930
01:07:54,114 --> 01:07:54,219
Aye.

931
01:07:54,219 --> 01:07:54,775
All opposed.

932
01:07:56,484 --> 01:07:56,994
Not me.

933
01:07:58,224 --> 01:07:58,584
Thanks.

934
01:08:00,054 --> 01:08:02,065
You have to do another motion to get--

935
01:08:03,324 --> 01:08:03,594
Another what?

936
01:08:03,894 --> 01:08:06,878
You have to do another motion until you get something in the affirmative if we're

937
01:08:06,894 --> 01:08:07,464
at a tie.

938
01:08:19,374 --> 01:08:20,634
All right. Somebody else want to try?

939
01:08:22,224 --> 01:08:24,684
Well, okay. Let me just throw one thing out. All right.

940
01:08:24,745 --> 01:08:29,485
We have a tie here, so chances are another motion is going to result in another

941
01:08:29,544 --> 01:08:33,745
tie. Right? I can't imagine what a different motion would be that would break a

942
01:08:33,804 --> 01:08:36,324
tie. Can you think of anything?

943
01:08:36,414 --> 01:08:36,684
I-

944
01:08:37,764 --> 01:08:41,874
The only other motion to make is a motion to not approve it.

945
01:08:41,964 --> 01:08:43,824
And now we've broken the tie.

946
01:08:44,694 --> 01:08:49,134
So maybe that being the case, we know we're deadlocked on the wetlands CUP.

947
01:08:49,914 --> 01:08:50,785
Maybe we move on to the

948
01:08:53,454 --> 01:08:55,194
site plan.

949
01:08:56,424 --> 01:09:02,065
Yeah. I'm going to request findings as well

950
01:09:02,155 --> 01:09:02,485
here.

951
01:09:03,714 --> 01:09:04,285
Absolutely.

952
01:09:05,934 --> 01:09:09,294
Well, I can't give you findings on a motion that didn't pass.

953
01:09:11,815 --> 01:09:12,309
Or failed.

954
01:09:12,354 --> 01:09:14,499
Or at least get the motion to approve.

955
01:09:14,964 --> 01:09:15,594
Is that under-

956
01:09:17,004 --> 01:09:17,214
Oh.

957
01:09:17,275 --> 01:09:17,440
Either-

958
01:09:17,604 --> 01:09:21,788
Something until there's a vote in the affirmative of the motion, whether that's

959
01:09:21,804 --> 01:09:22,525
approved or not.

960
01:09:24,174 --> 01:09:26,694
So we can't just end on a tie.

961
01:09:28,824 --> 01:09:34,434
Well, we could end on a tie because that's a failure.

962
01:09:34,554 --> 01:09:35,394
Motion doesn't carry.

963
01:09:36,594 --> 01:09:36,834
Right.

964
01:09:37,104 --> 01:09:37,315
Right.

965
01:09:37,495 --> 01:09:39,745
But that doesn't close the application.

966
01:09:39,864 --> 01:09:41,035
No. Right. Correct.

967
01:09:41,079 --> 01:09:41,334
No. Yeah.

968
01:09:43,285 --> 01:09:47,334
Can you continue this to the next meeting? There's an odd number of people.

969
01:09:48,235 --> 01:09:49,150
That is-

970
01:09:49,644 --> 01:09:51,025
Seven years old.

971
01:09:52,104 --> 01:09:54,174
I know, and my

972
01:09:57,654 --> 01:10:03,174
feeling continues to be that this is a de minimis application.

973
01:10:03,204 --> 01:10:08,019
There's substantial betterment from the restoration plan that was put forward and

974
01:10:08,094 --> 01:10:10,674
reviewed and approved by our Conservation

975
01:10:11,874 --> 01:10:13,344
Commission. And

976
01:10:14,874 --> 01:10:20,394
the layout of this particular plan was substantially

977
01:10:20,454 --> 01:10:26,274
approved via the conditional use permit that was approved in 2017, and I don't

978
01:10:26,333 --> 01:10:29,814
believe that the court gave us permission to change that.

979
01:10:31,884 --> 01:10:34,974
So here we are. I

980
01:10:38,904 --> 01:10:42,204
guess I agree with the applicant that the

981
01:10:47,844 --> 01:10:52,884
notion of productive use of the land is involved with the entirety of the plan,

982
01:10:53,634 --> 01:10:55,974
and this crossing

983
01:10:58,134 --> 01:11:03,203
and impact is essential to that productive use of the land.

984
01:11:03,894 --> 01:11:04,584
So, I

985
01:11:06,745 --> 01:11:09,324
continue to believe that we should approve this.

986
01:11:13,854 --> 01:11:17,664
Well, I hate to see huge developments go in, to be honest.

987
01:11:18,294 --> 01:11:22,285
When you look at this, they have an approved density bonus.

988
01:11:23,124 --> 01:11:27,879
They wouldn't have been able to get those number of units that they did

989
01:11:29,664 --> 01:11:35,514
without that crossing. Okay? It would've had accessibility

990
01:11:35,574 --> 01:11:36,714
issues for

991
01:11:38,245 --> 01:11:39,894
ADA

992
01:11:42,144 --> 01:11:47,785
people. It would've impacted the use of a lot of the open space.

993
01:11:48,354 --> 01:11:49,764
So somewhere along the way,

994
01:11:51,114 --> 01:11:56,829
the prior planning board looked at it in entirety and said,

995
01:11:57,084 --> 01:12:02,364
"Yes, this meets the intent of the IIHO and the intent of all these

996
01:12:02,424 --> 01:12:07,704
regulations." Okay? There is a net positive

997
01:12:07,824 --> 01:12:11,304
gain from their view at that point in time,

998
01:12:12,444 --> 01:12:14,514
where

999
01:12:17,035 --> 01:12:23,004
they approve the CUP. If somebody was coming in with

1000
01:12:23,064 --> 01:12:27,804
this right now fresh without it, would it be approved or not? I don't know.

1001
01:12:27,954 --> 01:12:28,254
But

1002
01:12:31,344 --> 01:12:36,294
going back and playing Monday morning quarterback and rethinking things that have

1003
01:12:36,324 --> 01:12:38,574
been approved before

1004
01:12:41,035 --> 01:12:42,384
just kind of

1005
01:12:44,094 --> 01:12:49,854
takes away from the integrity of the boards and town because that

1006
01:12:49,914 --> 01:12:55,495
was subject anything that was approved in the past to be reapproved

1007
01:12:56,184 --> 01:12:58,374
in the future every time the board changed.

1008
01:12:59,484 --> 01:13:03,324
And I'm not sure that's a path we want to go down.

1009
01:13:05,191 --> 01:13:08,820
May I just share that the plan that I have in front of me right now is the

1010
01:13:09,481 --> 01:13:13,441
conditional use permit plan that was approved for the IHO COP.

1011
01:13:14,731 --> 01:13:16,890
How can a planning board approve this plan

1012
01:13:18,390 --> 01:13:21,120
if they don't intend on approving that wetland process?

1013
01:13:23,310 --> 01:13:26,701
No way. There's no nexus. You can't get here.

1014
01:13:28,590 --> 01:13:28,890
It's

1015
01:13:30,300 --> 01:13:36,090
completely unreasonable to think that a board-- You're the same board, you have to

1016
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:36,870
look at it that way.

1017
01:13:38,250 --> 01:13:42,840
In 2019, January, approved this plan.

1018
01:13:43,020 --> 01:13:45,030
It's the same plan,

1019
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,570
same process, same wetlands. Does this layout look any different?

1020
01:13:54,990 --> 01:13:59,701
Coupled with quote from the hab that's upheld, that quite frankly, it's unfortunate

1021
01:13:59,731 --> 01:14:01,920
that the parties could not effectively collaborate.

1022
01:14:02,191 --> 01:14:08,160
Yeah, but- This feels like a situation where we are so far down the line,

1023
01:14:08,250 --> 01:14:12,150
and this has been, as noted, peer-reviewed, reviewed by the Conservation

1024
01:14:12,210 --> 01:14:18,060
Commission, reviewed at length by this board, to at what feels

1025
01:14:18,150 --> 01:14:23,820
beyond the 11th hour, say, "Well, this whole plan is non-compliant with the wetland

1026
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:29,130
CUP, you can't get that." That's the kind of thing that at early review could've

1027
01:14:29,191 --> 01:14:33,780
been discussed so that waivers could've been sought, et cetera. They weren't.

1028
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:39,360
There's a degree of detrimental reliance on this after seven years that, that

1029
01:14:39,481 --> 01:14:41,489
originalist, if you will, argument-

1030
01:14:43,441 --> 01:14:48,990
Right. Let's- It's almost an unfair rationale to advocate. It looks like bad faith.

1031
01:14:49,140 --> 01:14:50,055
And I know that's not--

1032
01:14:52,470 --> 01:14:57,210
I'm not trying to be ad hominem here, but from our position where it seems like

1033
01:14:57,270 --> 01:15:01,335
we've tried to be collaborative, we've provided the things, we've changed, we've

1034
01:15:01,410 --> 01:15:03,750
sharpened the plan in ways that have been requested.

1035
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:10,830
And to then go back to court conceivably and say, "Well, now seven years later,

1036
01:15:10,890 --> 01:15:12,600
they said this piece doesn't work."

1037
01:15:14,670 --> 01:15:18,300
And let's look at the criteria for that conditional use permit, because I think the

1038
01:15:18,330 --> 01:15:22,050
answer is there. Like, the one that's approved, right?

1039
01:15:22,170 --> 01:15:26,865
The first criteria, that the property in question is in conformance with the

1040
01:15:26,941 --> 01:15:31,606
dimensional requirements of the zone or meets the planning board standards for the

1041
01:15:31,650 --> 01:15:36,691
reduction in dimensional requirements, and that the proposed use is consistent with

1042
01:15:36,750 --> 01:15:41,490
the Amherst Master Plan. Approved in January of 2019.

1043
01:15:41,580 --> 01:15:44,400
So if this is a non-compliant plan, it can't have been voted.

1044
01:15:44,490 --> 01:15:49,830
That the proposal meets the purposes of the ordinance under which the application

1045
01:15:49,890 --> 01:15:51,675
is proposed. Approved.

1046
01:15:53,250 --> 01:15:58,290
That there will be no significant adverse impacts resulting from the proposed use

1047
01:15:58,350 --> 01:16:02,880
upon the public health, safety, and general welfare of the neighborhood in the town

1048
01:16:02,910 --> 01:16:08,595
of Amherst. Approved. That the proposed use will not be more objectionable to the

1049
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:13,650
properties, by nearby properties by reason of noise, fumes, vibration, or

1050
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:18,990
inappropriate lighting, excuse me, than any use of the property

1051
01:16:19,620 --> 01:16:24,390
permitted under the existing zoning district ordinances. Again, approved.

1052
01:16:25,170 --> 01:16:30,330
That the proposed use will not adversely affect the groundwater resources in

1053
01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:36,330
Amherst, in particular, the Aquifer Protection District, as defined in 413

1054
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:41,220
of the Amherst Zoning Ordinance. And then the last one, the applicant shall file a

1055
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,970
non-residential site plan in accordance with the non-residential site plan

1056
01:16:45,780 --> 01:16:48,451
regulations with the Amherst Planning Board.

1057
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:54,540
And we received an approval with very few conditions on

1058
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:59,550
this conditional use permit. And they're outlined in the staff memo.

1059
01:17:00,030 --> 01:17:03,990
So walls, et cetera. But none of them relate to-- I mean, we had to get the

1060
01:17:04,050 --> 01:17:08,760
conditional use permit for the wetlands, but none of them, nobody said, "Hey,

1061
01:17:09,210 --> 01:17:12,240
you're going to want to be careful because we're probably not going to approve this

1062
01:17:12,300 --> 01:17:16,170
wetlands process, even though we just approved the conditional use permit for a

1063
01:17:16,231 --> 01:17:20,670
layout which contemplates the full development of the land." It contemplates the

1064
01:17:20,731 --> 01:17:22,981
conservation area that abuts everywhere.

1065
01:17:23,070 --> 01:17:27,150
It contemplates pedestrian access internally, which means you have to contemplate

1066
01:17:27,180 --> 01:17:33,060
the road. It contemplates emergency access, traffic,

1067
01:17:33,691 --> 01:17:38,356
curb cuts, general public welfare. I mean, it contemplates all this.

1068
01:17:38,865 --> 01:17:41,520
And it really can't be looked at any other way.

1069
01:17:41,550 --> 01:17:44,235
And a general design preference against dead ends.

1070
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,390
This is public safety with two accessways here. Right.

1071
01:17:51,900 --> 01:17:56,790
How about if I

1072
01:17:56,850 --> 01:17:58,425
revise my

1073
01:18:00,540 --> 01:18:05,595
original motion to include a stipulation or requirement

1074
01:18:06,691 --> 01:18:09,720
that site plan approval would be granted?

1075
01:18:12,090 --> 01:18:15,960
I don't know where else to go with this because,

1076
01:18:17,941 --> 01:18:19,410
as you said, the

1077
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:22,725
conditional use permit is really,

1078
01:18:24,570 --> 01:18:25,725
in a lot of ways,

1079
01:18:30,900 --> 01:18:32,580
kind of subservient to site plan.

1080
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:38,070
So,

1081
01:18:41,100 --> 01:18:45,120
and the site plan, as has been stated, hasn't changed since.

1082
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:51,570
It hasn't changed in its layout. It has changed in detail in terms of buffering

1083
01:18:51,630 --> 01:18:51,780
and

1084
01:18:53,191 --> 01:18:57,060
that sort of thing, but not in terms of

1085
01:18:59,430 --> 01:19:00,420
layout from

1086
01:19:02,430 --> 01:19:04,410
what the board saw. So,

1087
01:19:12,390 --> 01:19:15,900
I guess I would like to make that motion if I would.

1088
01:19:16,530 --> 01:19:22,231
The previous motion, including the stipulation that it is only in

1089
01:19:22,260 --> 01:19:25,800
effect if the site plan application is granted.

1090
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:29,609
And Gordon, one other- Just real quickly.

1091
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:35,070
One other thing, too, is I believe it's my prerogative to abstain from any

1092
01:19:35,130 --> 01:19:37,680
particular vote that I want to. Yeah.

1093
01:19:37,769 --> 01:19:38,520
Normally,

1094
01:19:40,740 --> 01:19:46,320
it's more important if you're looking to not have an even number.

1095
01:19:46,410 --> 01:19:49,935
But in this case, we're looking to not have an even number, so I will abstain from

1096
01:19:49,951 --> 01:19:54,330
this particular vote. Okay. Well, so that's my motion.

1097
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:55,050
I second.

1098
01:19:57,780 --> 01:19:58,650
All in favor?

1099
01:19:59,400 --> 01:19:59,731
Aye.

1100
01:20:01,095 --> 01:20:01,680
Aye. Opposed?

1101
01:20:03,270 --> 01:20:06,180
Motion passes four to one. Okay. Sorry.

1102
01:20:06,510 --> 01:20:10,995
And the findings of facts are included in

1103
01:20:11,010 --> 01:20:15,856
the staff memo of September 2nd,

1104
01:20:16,410 --> 01:20:17,415
2026.

1105
01:20:19,020 --> 01:20:20,220
They appear to be

1106
01:20:24,030 --> 01:20:25,350
fairly standard.

1107
01:20:27,660 --> 01:20:32,941
So without objection, I guess we would include those in as our findings- I didn't

1108
01:20:32,970 --> 01:20:38,460
hear you. I'm sorry. The findings of facts are included in the staff memo of

1109
01:20:39,210 --> 01:20:44,191
September 2nd, and without objection, I guess we would just adopt those as our

1110
01:20:44,220 --> 01:20:48,930
findings of facts. So I make a motion to adopt those as the findings of facts.

1111
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:51,180
I second.

1112
01:20:51,210 --> 01:20:52,800
All in favor? Aye.

1113
01:20:53,145 --> 01:20:53,145
Aye.

1114
01:20:53,191 --> 01:20:57,990
All opposed? One abstention. Okay, so we move on.

1115
01:20:59,460 --> 01:21:00,600
Okay, onto the

1116
01:21:02,460 --> 01:21:03,060
site plan.

1117
01:21:04,441 --> 01:21:05,100
Go ahead.

1118
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:11,760
I'm just going to open up

1119
01:21:13,710 --> 01:21:14,220
the one

1120
01:21:16,350 --> 01:21:20,624
revision that we had from the... Sorry, here.

1121
01:21:20,820 --> 01:21:23,400
It's in the wrong-- From the last meeting.

1122
01:21:27,060 --> 01:21:30,060
And what we did here is we formalized the

1123
01:21:31,710 --> 01:21:34,500
landscaping plan along Hollis Road.

1124
01:21:35,191 --> 01:21:40,380
And you may recall, we had talked about this a little bit with some of the members

1125
01:21:40,500 --> 01:21:45,840
on our site walk. Basically, there was a

1126
01:21:45,870 --> 01:21:51,060
consensus, I think, from us and the board that we could do better with the

1127
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:56,370
buffering, certainly within the area of the units and the highway.

1128
01:21:57,481 --> 01:22:03,300
And so we revisited the plan, and what we ultimately found is we can save

1129
01:22:03,810 --> 01:22:08,880
four of the large existing trees, and so we detailed them on here.

1130
01:22:08,910 --> 01:22:14,430
There'd be one, two, three- Four. And then we've

1131
01:22:14,550 --> 01:22:20,070
augmented the area, basically from those four trees

1132
01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:26,520
to the highway, where we are proposing 21 additional trees.

1133
01:22:27,060 --> 01:22:32,460
There would be Austrian pine, white fir, and white spruce

1134
01:22:33,330 --> 01:22:37,335
proposed, and those are blended. You can see the kind of darker

1135
01:22:39,630 --> 01:22:45,060
random kind of planting scheme here along the front, kind of in line with those

1136
01:22:45,076 --> 01:22:50,280
existing trees. And then if you see this gray hatch area here, which doesn't stand

1137
01:22:50,340 --> 01:22:53,220
out real well. I'm going to zoom in because I think you'll

1138
01:22:54,990 --> 01:23:00,240
see some of the line work. But this gray hatch area here along this area, that's a

1139
01:23:00,270 --> 01:23:05,566
proposed wildflower mix. And so that area will be kind of

1140
01:23:05,610 --> 01:23:11,220
unmaintained, so unmanicured. It'll be a nice wildflower mix, which will cast

1141
01:23:11,250 --> 01:23:15,510
between the homes and some of that existing

1142
01:23:17,850 --> 01:23:21,930
vegetation. When I say existing vegetation, we are maintaining all the vegetation

1143
01:23:22,020 --> 01:23:26,910
along the stone wall area. That's referenced here.

1144
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:32,370
Infilling some of the areas where we're closing the old curb cuts.

1145
01:23:32,580 --> 01:23:34,170
And so that's always been on the plan.

1146
01:23:34,830 --> 01:23:39,120
But so what we're adding here is, we're saving these four mature trees.

1147
01:23:39,930 --> 01:23:41,460
We added 21 additional

1148
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:48,405
plantings with species that we kind of shared with us would be appropriate for this

1149
01:23:48,420 --> 01:23:51,240
location, and then doing that wildflower mix.

1150
01:23:51,330 --> 01:23:55,981
And so we hope the board would consider that appropriate, and certainly an

1151
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:58,410
improvement that reflects.

1152
01:24:01,860 --> 01:24:07,050
The only other thing that I submitted since the last meeting, and we

1153
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:08,955
actually just touched on it

1154
01:24:10,170 --> 01:24:15,900
with the prior vote, was the conditional use permit criteria that a couple members

1155
01:24:15,930 --> 01:24:19,981
asked for us to kind of bring forward, even though the vote was already done.

1156
01:24:20,580 --> 01:24:26,130
And then the IHO density and kind of just outlined how we

1157
01:24:26,220 --> 01:24:31,890
met the criteria. And one thing that I would say in reviewing the staff memo,

1158
01:24:33,900 --> 01:24:39,856
there's a table that was very nicely prepared by staff, and there appeared to be

1159
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:44,220
a few items that says compliance not yet verified.

1160
01:24:44,250 --> 01:24:49,530
And I think many of these items were verified through the IHO.

1161
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:54,960
So if we take a look at that table real briefly, Regulation 215

1162
01:24:55,380 --> 01:25:00,150
pertains to pedestrian walks. We are proposing sidewalks

1163
01:25:01,410 --> 01:25:06,630
internally for this project, and that was at the request of the planning board.

1164
01:25:06,660 --> 01:25:10,620
It was tied to density bonuses for the project.

1165
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:16,350
And so those are detailed within the plan set. We certainly have trails as well.

1166
01:25:17,370 --> 01:25:20,640
So we thought that that one was likely addressed.

1167
01:25:21,420 --> 01:25:26,879
Under the non-residential cycling regulations, it's 2.182,

1168
01:25:27,389 --> 01:25:29,731
which is pedestrian and bike safety access.

1169
01:25:29,790 --> 01:25:33,930
I think that's also addressed through that same comment.

1170
01:25:34,335 --> 01:25:35,100
And so I know

1171
01:25:36,930 --> 01:25:41,731
we kind of just formally provided how we met all that criteria, so maybe that

1172
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:42,074
helped.

1173
01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:49,231
Moving down to 2.186, it says water supply, wastewater disposal, and solid

1174
01:25:49,290 --> 01:25:52,981
waste disposal compliance not yet verified.

1175
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:58,620
Well, we need septic approvals through the state as a condition of this

1176
01:25:58,650 --> 01:26:03,180
development. And so most certainly those approvals will be done locally and at the

1177
01:26:03,210 --> 01:26:08,460
state level. The state did change, so for everybody's edification, the state did

1178
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:14,010
change the design flow requirements for 55 and older developments to be 150

1179
01:26:14,070 --> 01:26:18,840
gallons per day per bedroom. And so each unit will require a 300-gallon

1180
01:26:20,490 --> 01:26:25,951
design. But we've allocated and we've shown areas where we can

1181
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:31,441
accomplish that. We ultimately-- That's been reviewed through the process.

1182
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:34,231
All we have to do is submit for the state permit.

1183
01:26:34,350 --> 01:26:40,260
So I would suggest that that compliance has to be done by default

1184
01:26:40,350 --> 01:26:45,270
through the state permitting process, which really shouldn't hold up movement

1185
01:26:45,570 --> 01:26:46,574
before the board, I would hope.

1186
01:26:48,645 --> 01:26:53,850
And then the only other one pertains to sufficient monitoring requirements to

1187
01:26:53,910 --> 01:26:58,725
evaluate impacts during the build-out and up to five years.

1188
01:26:58,740 --> 01:27:03,600
And I'm sorry, I meant to say this is under-- it's the last page of the table, but

1189
01:27:03,630 --> 01:27:06,300
it's under the IHO regulations,

1190
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:11,356
5.02.4 or 502.4, excuse me.

1191
01:27:12,691 --> 01:27:17,130
And that says compliance not yet verified, but I would offer that we submitted a

1192
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:19,981
fiscal impact report for this project.

1193
01:27:20,100 --> 01:27:23,160
So we've kind of outlined and addressed that with that report.

1194
01:27:24,691 --> 01:27:29,550
We did submit a phasing plan with the project that's been in the plan set for a

1195
01:27:29,610 --> 01:27:33,330
long time now. It was proposed as a four-phase development

1196
01:27:34,740 --> 01:27:37,860
with permits split over that four-year period.

1197
01:27:38,731 --> 01:27:40,680
That's when it was a market rate development.

1198
01:27:41,610 --> 01:27:44,340
I would suggest and hope we can talk about

1199
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:51,930
many times with these 55 and older developments, the impacts are reduced on a

1200
01:27:52,770 --> 01:27:55,020
municipal level and often the

1201
01:27:56,280 --> 01:28:01,350
boards consider, we'd like to see it go as fast as possible, so that we're not

1202
01:28:01,410 --> 01:28:05,835
dragging out a construction window for abutting properties or neighboring

1203
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:11,580
properties, knowing that this project's not going to have a negative impact on the

1204
01:28:11,790 --> 01:28:14,340
school system, which is normally the big trigger.

1205
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:19,170
And it's not going to have a negative impact, really, on the traffic conditions

1206
01:28:19,231 --> 01:28:22,110
because we've talked about this in detail.

1207
01:28:22,154 --> 01:28:26,010
We provided an updated traffic report, which doesn't contemplate the phasing, it

1208
01:28:26,130 --> 01:28:28,860
contemplates the build-out of the development.

1209
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:32,370
And that was deemed to show that there's negligible impact.

1210
01:28:32,415 --> 01:28:33,300
So,

1211
01:28:36,359 --> 01:28:40,874
although we're willing to stand by the phasing plan, we would suggest that the

1212
01:28:40,890 --> 01:28:46,201
board may want to consider not phasing this project and letting the market

1213
01:28:46,500 --> 01:28:50,370
determine how fast the build-out can be.

1214
01:28:50,701 --> 01:28:53,850
That might be a more favorable option for the neighborhood.

1215
01:28:54,030 --> 01:28:56,580
But nonetheless, we think we have addressed

1216
01:28:57,390 --> 01:29:02,790
5.02.4, keep wanting to throw a point in there,

1217
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:09,330
pertaining to this through the materials that we have submitted in the past.

1218
01:29:10,050 --> 01:29:14,040
So we hope we've addressed the outstanding items.

1219
01:29:14,100 --> 01:29:17,580
We were close, and there was some cleanup that the board was looking for.

1220
01:29:17,970 --> 01:29:20,701
We did prepare to submit legal documents.

1221
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:25,441
We got review comments back from town council, and we look forward to addressing

1222
01:29:25,470 --> 01:29:31,231
those. But certainly, I think the review comments were in large part consistent

1223
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:36,540
with a normal review, and we think that we're at a point where we're hoping the

1224
01:29:36,570 --> 01:29:39,540
board would consider a vote this evening on the site plan as well.

1225
01:29:44,310 --> 01:29:44,850
You all set?

1226
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:46,050
So far.

1227
01:29:46,110 --> 01:29:46,620
All right.

1228
01:29:50,100 --> 01:29:54,255
I guess my question is, and if we can't revisit it because it's already been

1229
01:29:54,255 --> 01:29:59,580
approved, but when I was going through the IHO, the density worksheet,

1230
01:30:02,100 --> 01:30:07,890
to me, it just seemed like there was a couple of bullets that you're getting units

1231
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:12,150
for. And again, this, we can't talk about it, I don't know. Tell me you're not.

1232
01:30:12,750 --> 01:30:18,120
Well, I think my understanding is we're

1233
01:30:19,020 --> 01:30:20,385
stuck with the density that we're stuck with.

1234
01:30:20,430 --> 01:30:22,410
Oh, okay.

1235
01:30:22,576 --> 01:30:24,810
Because I think we talked about that before.

1236
01:30:24,900 --> 01:30:27,015
There are some double-dipping-

1237
01:30:27,060 --> 01:30:30,600
Yeah. It's just when you read it, you start to really say, like, I have to applaud

1238
01:30:30,630 --> 01:30:32,475
you. I appreciate you putting the document together.

1239
01:30:32,534 --> 01:30:36,210
I thought it was excellent and well thought, and it helped me go through it.

1240
01:30:36,270 --> 01:30:40,050
But as I was reading it and I went through that worksheet especially, I really

1241
01:30:40,110 --> 01:30:44,250
started saying, "Wait a minute." But there's no talking about it. Okay.

1242
01:30:44,310 --> 01:30:48,720
That's all I have. The reason that ordinance doesn't exist anymore.

1243
01:30:48,780 --> 01:30:48,975
Yeah.

1244
01:30:48,990 --> 01:30:50,490
There's many reasons.

1245
01:30:50,550 --> 01:30:51,300
Yes. Okay.

1246
01:30:51,930 --> 01:30:52,830
Oh, you also.

1247
01:30:53,100 --> 01:30:53,790
Yeah, I'm good.

1248
01:30:56,280 --> 01:31:02,160
Just so everybody knows, I did get a chance to look at the landscape plan, and I

1249
01:31:02,220 --> 01:31:07,845
agree with your assessment. It includes species that

1250
01:31:08,430 --> 01:31:13,110
keep their branches down to the ground, so it should provide much better screening

1251
01:31:13,170 --> 01:31:14,610
than a bunch of white pines in there.

1252
01:31:16,344 --> 01:31:22,164
So, and thank you for that. I mean, I do have to say that it

1253
01:31:22,194 --> 01:31:25,644
would've been nice to get it a week in front of the meeting rather than the day

1254
01:31:25,704 --> 01:31:26,394
before the meeting.

1255
01:31:26,874 --> 01:31:29,904
And I understand, and I appreciate your latitude with that.

1256
01:31:30,745 --> 01:31:30,984
But

1257
01:31:32,334 --> 01:31:35,184
I don't need to slap you around for that.

1258
01:31:35,424 --> 01:31:37,524
I was expecting it, and it's deserved.

1259
01:31:38,274 --> 01:31:39,549
We're dealing with some things that-

1260
01:31:40,524 --> 01:31:45,984
I mean, just to note, in the future, we may not be as, uh, lenient on it.

1261
01:31:46,104 --> 01:31:46,870
I would imagine.

1262
01:31:49,674 --> 01:31:51,594
I think that...

1263
01:31:54,594 --> 01:32:00,535
I mean, with that being said, I guess I agree that

1264
01:32:00,714 --> 01:32:04,404
with respect to the issues that are noted in the staff report as

1265
01:32:06,144 --> 01:32:06,444
not

1266
01:32:07,824 --> 01:32:13,495
yet verified or not complete, these are things that really

1267
01:32:13,674 --> 01:32:16,254
are typically subsequent to

1268
01:32:17,844 --> 01:32:18,414
approval,

1269
01:32:20,364 --> 01:32:22,764
because they involve state permitting and so forth.

1270
01:32:22,884 --> 01:32:23,948
So I'm--

1271
01:32:25,704 --> 01:32:31,464
Just one question. When you originally sought approval

1272
01:32:31,614 --> 01:32:32,724
for the project,

1273
01:32:34,434 --> 01:32:34,884
uh,

1274
01:32:36,954 --> 01:32:42,894
were the current DES, um, alteration of terrain standards

1275
01:32:42,924 --> 01:32:46,704
in effect, soils based and all of that?

1276
01:32:46,884 --> 01:32:46,899
Yeah.

1277
01:32:46,944 --> 01:32:48,294
So all of that,

1278
01:32:49,974 --> 01:32:54,144
which ultimately was adopted in our own regulation, um,

1279
01:32:55,524 --> 01:32:58,584
was in effect under the original design, correct?

1280
01:32:58,794 --> 01:32:59,769
That is correct, yes.

1281
01:32:59,844 --> 01:33:05,739
Okay. So, and would remain in effect when you go for your alteration of

1282
01:33:05,785 --> 01:33:08,049
terrain permit this time around?

1283
01:33:08,124 --> 01:33:08,785
That's correct.

1284
01:33:08,904 --> 01:33:09,114
So-

1285
01:33:09,294 --> 01:33:09,414
Yeah

1286
01:33:09,745 --> 01:33:15,084
... there's not only our review, but, uh, the belt and suspenders of a state review

1287
01:33:15,264 --> 01:33:20,154
that will be required. And that also has to do with

1288
01:33:20,844 --> 01:33:25,239
threatened and endangered species and all that good stuff, right?

1289
01:33:25,285 --> 01:33:29,394
That's correct. The threatened and endangered species, uh, regulations as of this

1290
01:33:29,454 --> 01:33:34,434
year are handled on the DES level. Uh, so they adopted or they, they

1291
01:33:35,904 --> 01:33:39,054
started an ecological review board.

1292
01:33:39,714 --> 01:33:43,014
They basically hired, you know, a few people from Fish and Game.

1293
01:33:43,524 --> 01:33:43,884
Okay.

1294
01:33:44,245 --> 01:33:45,834
Staff, you know, this commission.

1295
01:33:45,924 --> 01:33:51,084
So they, they got rid of the, uh, New Hampshire Heritage Bureau. It's now at DES.

1296
01:33:51,894 --> 01:33:52,164
Um-

1297
01:33:52,495 --> 01:33:52,660
Okay

1298
01:33:52,704 --> 01:33:55,374
... and they do reviews specific to projects.

1299
01:33:56,035 --> 01:33:59,394
Um, you know, this project, we already had a wildlife study, so we'll take, you

1300
01:33:59,424 --> 01:34:05,245
know, take benefit of that. But, uh, the reality is, is the, the state

1301
01:34:05,334 --> 01:34:10,464
permitting process requires, um, somebody, whether it's Fish and Game or somebody

1302
01:34:10,495 --> 01:34:15,624
at the Ecological Review Board, to certify that the project will not have an

1303
01:34:15,774 --> 01:34:20,634
adverse impact on the existence of, uh, threatened and endangered species.

1304
01:34:20,904 --> 01:34:24,774
And so they monitor that, and, and it's part of that movement.

1305
01:34:24,894 --> 01:34:30,774
Okay. And, uh, right. And there's some things that everybody has to deal with,

1306
01:34:30,864 --> 01:34:32,814
like a northern long-eared bat and-

1307
01:34:32,844 --> 01:34:35,995
Yeah. Restrictions for cutting at windows.

1308
01:34:36,234 --> 01:34:37,495
Right. Um,

1309
01:34:40,104 --> 01:34:41,604
okay, I don't think I've got anything else.

1310
01:34:43,434 --> 01:34:48,594
Uh, I kind of follow off of our last discussion a little bit about things that were

1311
01:34:48,654 --> 01:34:50,964
settled, um, by the previous board.

1312
01:34:51,894 --> 01:34:57,504
Um, I think you would agree that the previous board settled, um, on,

1313
01:34:57,864 --> 01:35:03,834
on fact that this was a mixed-use development that was approved by the

1314
01:35:04,074 --> 01:35:07,404
CUP for up to fifty-four units. Right?

1315
01:35:07,794 --> 01:35:12,745
That mixed-use development that that board approved included restricted housing,

1316
01:35:13,554 --> 01:35:14,904
non-restricted housing,

1317
01:35:16,314 --> 01:35:20,094
uh, rentals, things like that.

1318
01:35:21,564 --> 01:35:26,964
I'm just curious, like from, from your perspective, why, why is it okay now to

1319
01:35:26,995 --> 01:35:31,839
propose something different than what was previously approved, what was previously

1320
01:35:31,914 --> 01:35:35,004
approved and discussed with that conditional use permit that was approved?

1321
01:35:35,904 --> 01:35:41,304
So when, when we revisited this project over, um, you know,

1322
01:35:41,724 --> 01:35:47,064
many years of review, the diversity of housing,

1323
01:35:47,785 --> 01:35:53,334
um, and you reviewed the denial. I mean, part of the denial was

1324
01:35:53,364 --> 01:35:59,334
the, um, diversity of housing and having these potential for two homeowners

1325
01:35:59,394 --> 01:36:01,794
associations in one development.

1326
01:36:02,349 --> 01:36:08,154
And when that was reviewed, we met with staff, we met with everybody, um, there was

1327
01:36:08,214 --> 01:36:12,535
this general theme of how can we simplify the project.

1328
01:36:13,704 --> 01:36:16,344
Um, and so when you take a look, we met with Mr.

1329
01:36:16,614 --> 01:36:22,434
Keith, we met with Zach, and the guiding factor was you can

1330
01:36:22,495 --> 01:36:27,564
make changes to the project as long as you meet the conditional use permit

1331
01:36:27,954 --> 01:36:33,804
conditions. So when you take a dive, and I would...

1332
01:36:33,864 --> 01:36:37,194
You know, and we've, we've had many discussions about this.

1333
01:36:37,584 --> 01:36:43,554
We take a dive into the IHO regulations, it promotes density based on a

1334
01:36:43,614 --> 01:36:48,774
number of factors. Um, it doesn't say you have to provide this much market rate

1335
01:36:48,804 --> 01:36:51,384
housing. You can further restrict it.

1336
01:36:52,118 --> 01:36:58,104
And so we are offering to further restrict the development to simplify the,

1337
01:36:58,794 --> 01:37:01,314
basically the enforcement mechanism out here.

1338
01:37:01,824 --> 01:37:05,394
And that was part of the reason why this board denied it.

1339
01:37:05,694 --> 01:37:11,664
And so it was, it was part of the reason why, um, you know, we felt it was a good

1340
01:37:11,785 --> 01:37:16,614
solution, uh, moving forward. And so what that does

1341
01:37:17,214 --> 01:37:20,995
is it doesn't change anything in the conditional use permit.

1342
01:37:21,429 --> 01:37:26,964
We never had a dialogue with that board relative to, uh, making this all

1343
01:37:26,995 --> 01:37:31,254
fifty-five and older, because that board would have never denied the project based

1344
01:37:31,344 --> 01:37:35,634
on the way that the board, in my opinion, or the way that the board at the time

1345
01:37:35,664 --> 01:37:39,264
denied it, because they, they were looking for the community.

1346
01:37:39,384 --> 01:37:45,054
Um, and so interestingly enough, just over time, to simplify it, we, we came up

1347
01:37:45,084 --> 01:37:48,354
with a conclusion that further restricting it is allowed.

1348
01:37:49,779 --> 01:37:53,814
Nowhere in the old IHO regulations does it say that you cannot further restrict the

1349
01:37:53,874 --> 01:37:59,394
project. Uh, and so we're offering to further restrict it to make it all

1350
01:37:59,484 --> 01:38:04,614
fifty-five and older with a, you know, um, some sixty-two and older in order to

1351
01:38:04,704 --> 01:38:10,344
simplify the homeowners association and, uh, meet, you know, some of the

1352
01:38:10,464 --> 01:38:13,044
feedback that we received from, um,

1353
01:38:14,274 --> 01:38:18,684
you know, staff and peer consultants. And correct me if I said that any...

1354
01:38:19,495 --> 01:38:21,384
If I said- No, I think that's all said.

1355
01:38:21,535 --> 01:38:27,144
And just fur-further, you know, we had discussion about the rental housing, and you

1356
01:38:27,234 --> 01:38:29,124
had said, "Well, you know,

1357
01:38:31,285 --> 01:38:37,254
what if we made it all for sale?" And, you know, my personal opinion on that

1358
01:38:37,344 --> 01:38:37,824
would be

1359
01:38:39,684 --> 01:38:44,785
have at it if you want to lose the two and a half units or whatever it was

1360
01:38:45,745 --> 01:38:50,498
that we're reliant in the density calculations on having rental housing.

1361
01:38:50,844 --> 01:38:51,354
Right.

1362
01:38:51,774 --> 01:38:56,664
And so, so I mean, you can't have it both ways is my point.

1363
01:38:57,204 --> 01:39:02,124
And, and, uh, so I, I don't think that the, that the,

1364
01:39:03,114 --> 01:39:03,804
uh, the

1365
01:39:06,264 --> 01:39:12,114
getting rid of, uh, market rate has a material impact on the IA--

1366
01:39:12,594 --> 01:39:14,064
from the IHS perspective.

1367
01:39:14,574 --> 01:39:19,554
I agree. And, and at the time, the fifty-five and older regulations, my

1368
01:39:19,584 --> 01:39:24,054
understanding, was, was governed through the IHO regulations as well.

1369
01:39:24,174 --> 01:39:28,194
So the density for that would've been the same evaluation.

1370
01:39:28,374 --> 01:39:33,804
Um, it just wasn't the project that my client was proposing at the time, which was

1371
01:39:33,924 --> 01:39:38,664
market rate. And so, um, you know, quite simply, we...

1372
01:39:39,745 --> 01:39:44,064
You know, nobody has insinuated that we have to go back to, you know, to modify the

1373
01:39:44,094 --> 01:39:46,584
condition use permit. We meet all the criteria.

1374
01:39:47,004 --> 01:39:50,124
We've gone through all the criteria. I think it's spelled out.

1375
01:39:50,245 --> 01:39:55,074
You know, none of the, you know, the, the approval didn't say as long as this many

1376
01:39:55,164 --> 01:39:57,160
are, are market rate and this many...

1377
01:39:57,294 --> 01:40:01,269
You know, the only condition was because it was a density bonus that you have to

1378
01:40:01,374 --> 01:40:07,209
have, you know, you know, a certain amount of, uh, you know, bedrooms and, um, you

1379
01:40:07,254 --> 01:40:10,344
know, restrictions on all these features, which I'm happy to walk down through.

1380
01:40:10,674 --> 01:40:14,394
But none of them were a function of market rate or fifty-five and older.

1381
01:40:14,454 --> 01:40:18,966
The fifty-five and older is us- Further restricting the project.

1382
01:40:19,506 --> 01:40:24,876
Okay. I guess the reason I'm asking that question is, I do think there's

1383
01:40:25,416 --> 01:40:30,351
the potential that certain types of projects would've gotten different bonus

1384
01:40:30,397 --> 01:40:34,807
density treatment due to the subjective nature of the bonus densities through the

1385
01:40:34,926 --> 01:40:39,441
IHO. If somebody's really excited about something, they might be a little bit more

1386
01:40:39,486 --> 01:40:43,836
generous in handing out some bonus density for this or this.

1387
01:40:45,036 --> 01:40:45,051
I'm

1388
01:40:47,526 --> 01:40:50,106
almost getting the impression that

1389
01:40:51,486 --> 01:40:56,016
you're advocating that it's development type agnostic, so long as it still

1390
01:40:56,046 --> 01:41:02,016
complies. To use an extreme example, workforce housing is also allowed at

1391
01:41:02,046 --> 01:41:04,386
the time under IHO, right?

1392
01:41:05,121 --> 01:41:06,876
That's not true.

1393
01:41:07,116 --> 01:41:07,807
Yeah. No, it is.

1394
01:41:08,496 --> 01:41:10,147
That's not true. We had a standalone

1395
01:41:11,766 --> 01:41:12,936
workforce housing unit.

1396
01:41:13,446 --> 01:41:14,151
Yeah. What about-

1397
01:41:14,706 --> 01:41:20,647
I think it was modified after 2020 to incorporate

1398
01:41:20,706 --> 01:41:22,326
into IHO.

1399
01:41:22,836 --> 01:41:28,401
No. If you look up the regs that we have in our Dropbox, it's one of the three

1400
01:41:28,446 --> 01:41:31,716
types. It's elderly, PRD, and

1401
01:41:32,976 --> 01:41:37,311
workforce. Those are the three that fall under IHO, at least as far as what we have

1402
01:41:37,326 --> 01:41:40,356
in our Dropbox, which I assume to be the 2019 ordinance.

1403
01:41:40,776 --> 01:41:41,436
Okay.

1404
01:41:41,586 --> 01:41:47,316
So, if you assume a workforce project, they're

1405
01:41:47,346 --> 01:41:51,066
allowed virtually unlimited density because it has to be economically viable.

1406
01:41:51,126 --> 01:41:53,272
That's one of the conditions in workforce housing.

1407
01:41:54,216 --> 01:41:58,356
So it would be entirely possible that they could go through with a workforce

1408
01:41:58,446 --> 01:42:04,086
housing proposal under IHO and get awarded some huge number of units to make it

1409
01:42:04,116 --> 01:42:09,307
economically feasible. Could you then

1410
01:42:09,426 --> 01:42:14,571
say, after you get your conditional use permit for that, "We don't want to make

1411
01:42:14,616 --> 01:42:18,741
that workforce anymore. We want to make that market-rate housing." And what would

1412
01:42:18,876 --> 01:42:20,421
be the difference between going from

1413
01:42:21,696 --> 01:42:26,016
basically a mixed-use development plan PRD to an elderly house?

1414
01:42:26,346 --> 01:42:30,696
Because I think the difference on that is basically the direction the restriction's

1415
01:42:30,727 --> 01:42:35,526
flowing. That in your design where we say, "Let's pick 200 units of workforce

1416
01:42:35,556 --> 01:42:40,986
housing," if we then say, "No, we want to do market rate," any bonuses we received

1417
01:42:41,016 --> 01:42:46,852
in density due to workforce conditions at the IHO and state regulations, you can't

1418
01:42:46,866 --> 01:42:48,966
then go backwards to the less restrictive.

1419
01:42:49,477 --> 01:42:55,326
Whereas we receive a certain amount of density based on unrestricted, and then

1420
01:42:55,386 --> 01:42:57,816
decided willingly to make it more restrictive.

1421
01:42:57,936 --> 01:43:03,411
So at the same time, if we were approved for 54 and decided that, okay, now we'd

1422
01:43:03,426 --> 01:43:08,256
prefer to make them workforce, I think we probably have the right to make that more

1423
01:43:08,316 --> 01:43:12,397
restrictive. That's not obviously what we're proposing, but is that you can't go

1424
01:43:12,456 --> 01:43:15,786
back to the less restrictive from the more restrictive because that's how we

1425
01:43:15,891 --> 01:43:20,196
achieve the density. I think you kind of answered the question, too, in the way you

1426
01:43:20,227 --> 01:43:23,076
presented that, is that workforce is an exception, right?

1427
01:43:23,136 --> 01:43:28,836
You can have a lot more density because there's an economically

1428
01:43:28,897 --> 01:43:34,776
viable analysis for that. That leaves the calculation of

1429
01:43:35,107 --> 01:43:40,566
density or any of these criteria. So it's really different.

1430
01:43:41,107 --> 01:43:45,727
When you look at the criteria that we're talking about and the reports that

1431
01:43:45,786 --> 01:43:49,417
supported it, fiscal impact, traffic,

1432
01:43:51,306 --> 01:43:56,121
all of those reports get better if you more restrict it the way we're doing.

1433
01:43:56,316 --> 01:44:02,107
The fiscal impact gets better, meaning it's a net positive in the right direction

1434
01:44:02,196 --> 01:44:07,836
for 55 and older. The traffic comes down because there's less peak users, so

1435
01:44:08,227 --> 01:44:11,647
it's better for the surrounding areas.

1436
01:44:12,397 --> 01:44:18,306
But I think a board does have to consider that potential

1437
01:44:18,336 --> 01:44:24,096
change. But what I do think is important is that the conditions don't

1438
01:44:24,157 --> 01:44:27,336
mention a breakdown or diversity of housing.

1439
01:44:27,816 --> 01:44:33,006
The list in the

1440
01:44:33,397 --> 01:44:38,227
density bonuses is not tied to market rate.

1441
01:44:38,272 --> 01:44:41,826
It just says, "This is how many minimum

1442
01:44:46,236 --> 01:44:50,016
two bedrooms you have to have. This is how many single floor units you have to

1443
01:44:50,046 --> 01:44:55,160
have. This is how many attached units you have to have, how many ADA units you have

1444
01:44:55,206 --> 01:45:00,066
to have, how many two bedrooms you have to have." And then there was one section

1445
01:45:00,157 --> 01:45:05,496
for the elderly 62 and older, "This is how many you have to have to get the density

1446
01:45:05,526 --> 01:45:10,522
bonus." We meet all of those criteria, even in a 55 and older development.

1447
01:45:10,716 --> 01:45:14,990
So, which you said is allowed under the section.

1448
01:45:15,336 --> 01:45:20,346
When you look at amenities, the amenities are not necessarily an

1449
01:45:20,526 --> 01:45:25,746
age-based amenity, right? You're talking about, will the site be

1450
01:45:25,836 --> 01:45:26,917
walkable?

1451
01:45:28,236 --> 01:45:30,636
Are there improved access to public spaces?

1452
01:45:31,836 --> 01:45:36,546
Community space open to the public, community space restricted to residents, open

1453
01:45:36,607 --> 01:45:40,776
space under restrictive covenant, open space improved and open to the public.

1454
01:45:42,696 --> 01:45:43,881
Rental restrictions,

1455
01:45:46,296 --> 01:45:50,046
repurposing existing structures, utility betterments.

1456
01:45:50,466 --> 01:45:55,836
None of those are specific to a market rate versus

1457
01:45:56,107 --> 01:45:59,346
55 and older. We're further restricting it.

1458
01:45:59,676 --> 01:46:05,091
We're improving the impacts on the neighborhood, and we're trying to address one of

1459
01:46:05,136 --> 01:46:09,516
the concerns that the board that denied the application had with the project.

1460
01:46:09,907 --> 01:46:15,636
And so it was a progressive, productive attempt to make this more palatable for

1461
01:46:16,147 --> 01:46:16,596
the board.

1462
01:46:19,596 --> 01:46:22,417
And I guess just two more questions.

1463
01:46:25,626 --> 01:46:31,326
When this was initially proposed, it was proposed as an elderly in

1464
01:46:31,386 --> 01:46:35,466
the conceptual or design review stage,

1465
01:46:36,816 --> 01:46:37,776
a conceptual

1466
01:46:39,366 --> 01:46:43,296
elderly housing development. And then there were some discussions.

1467
01:46:43,806 --> 01:46:47,376
Obviously, it's been kind of hard to figure out what exactly happened back there,

1468
01:46:47,466 --> 01:46:52,326
but it sounds like there was some discussion with Town Hall about not-- I think you

1469
01:46:52,386 --> 01:46:56,917
went in for 66 units or something like that in the conceptual stage or design

1470
01:46:56,946 --> 01:46:57,336
review.

1471
01:46:58,386 --> 01:47:02,076
That predated the IHO. It predated us.

1472
01:47:02,136 --> 01:47:07,897
That plan was actually done by a different company, and it utilized the

1473
01:47:07,956 --> 01:47:10,086
property differently. They went way into the back.

1474
01:47:10,596 --> 01:47:14,736
They were not preserving open space areas. There was not site amenities.

1475
01:47:15,216 --> 01:47:18,727
And so you can't really evaluate that proposal.

1476
01:47:18,786 --> 01:47:21,905
It was a completely different regulation.

1477
01:47:22,326 --> 01:47:26,857
And then the IHO regulations came out, and they started evaluating elderly under

1478
01:47:26,917 --> 01:47:31,506
that same regulation, and it had the same density provisions.

1479
01:47:31,776 --> 01:47:33,756
So I just want to be careful how we compare that.

1480
01:47:34,116 --> 01:47:37,746
Okay. All right. I guess I'll probably go. Last question.

1481
01:47:39,261 --> 01:47:43,296
This has obviously been proposed as a PRD all along.

1482
01:47:44,016 --> 01:47:48,486
Still even to your last filing here, it's still calling it a PRD.

1483
01:47:49,176 --> 01:47:53,376
Is that a fair set of rules to evaluate it under or...?

1484
01:47:55,056 --> 01:48:00,036
I would have to look at the IHO, but I think the PRD is a section in that

1485
01:48:00,486 --> 01:48:01,326
development, so-

1486
01:48:01,596 --> 01:48:06,336
Right. Yeah. PRD, elderly, and workforce, those all fall under.

1487
01:48:06,397 --> 01:48:10,657
You have to pick one of the three when you do an IHO application.

1488
01:48:10,746 --> 01:48:13,806
Okay. I don't have the ordinance in front of me, but that could be.

1489
01:48:14,286 --> 01:48:18,352
Yeah. So if there was no development type, there'd really be no rules on the

1490
01:48:18,426 --> 01:48:22,026
development other than setting up number of units you could have, and that would be

1491
01:48:22,116 --> 01:48:25,417
pretty much it. That's pretty much all the IHO does.

1492
01:48:25,746 --> 01:48:28,776
It's the mechanism of implementation for those other three.

1493
01:48:28,986 --> 01:48:31,866
It was a very short regulation when we were working with it.

1494
01:48:31,956 --> 01:48:32,136
Yeah.

1495
01:48:32,196 --> 01:48:33,727
It's been improved over time.

1496
01:48:33,907 --> 01:48:34,056
Yep.

1497
01:48:34,086 --> 01:48:38,796
It was expanded over time, but there was basically a worksheet to work with when we

1498
01:48:38,826 --> 01:48:41,647
were dealing with it in the early stages.

1499
01:48:41,691 --> 01:48:41,691
Yeah.

1500
01:48:41,706 --> 01:48:45,620
And so when you think about it, when we got the conditional use permit in 2019,

1501
01:48:46,296 --> 01:48:49,596
that's the IHO regulations that we were vested under.

1502
01:48:49,776 --> 01:48:49,956
Yep.

1503
01:48:50,016 --> 01:48:53,946
Not the ones in 2000, when we got the denial.

1504
01:48:54,186 --> 01:48:54,276
Okay.

1505
01:48:54,306 --> 01:48:57,876
So I just want to make sure we're talking about the right regulation.

1506
01:48:58,116 --> 01:48:58,296
Yep.

1507
01:48:59,616 --> 01:49:03,816
So looking at it under the planned residential development section of our

1508
01:49:03,846 --> 01:49:04,971
ordinance, it

1509
01:49:06,186 --> 01:49:08,526
goes into that because that's what it's called.

1510
01:49:08,586 --> 01:49:11,407
There are certain things we have to look at.

1511
01:49:11,436 --> 01:49:15,306
I just want to make sure because we're talking elderly PRD.

1512
01:49:17,046 --> 01:49:19,357
I'm not sure we can change it at this point because-

1513
01:49:20,124 --> 01:49:22,884
I mean, we would have addressed all that criteria then if that's the case.

1514
01:49:22,944 --> 01:49:25,929
Yeah. Okay. That's what town hall, that's what staff means-

1515
01:49:25,974 --> 01:49:30,594
You don't complete the PRD ordinance piece of it, because that was a standalone

1516
01:49:30,654 --> 01:49:31,344
piece, right?

1517
01:49:32,094 --> 01:49:36,219
No. Well, I mean, it's a separate part of the ordinance, but the IHO said that-

1518
01:49:36,624 --> 01:49:36,955
Yeah, okay

1519
01:49:36,984 --> 01:49:42,534
... those three fall-- The IHO is the mechanism of implementation, I think, is

1520
01:49:42,594 --> 01:49:43,479
exactly what it says-

1521
01:49:43,539 --> 01:49:47,274
But my point is the PRD still exists.

1522
01:49:47,334 --> 01:49:50,455
Right. It's different now, but it does still exist.

1523
01:49:50,755 --> 01:49:53,184
Okay. Do you know what changes were made?

1524
01:49:54,564 --> 01:49:59,109
The PRD ordinance that exists today is quite a bit different than the one that

1525
01:49:59,154 --> 01:49:59,874
we're-

1526
01:49:59,964 --> 01:50:00,819
Okay.

1527
01:50:00,894 --> 01:50:02,154
There are a lot of changes to it.

1528
01:50:02,664 --> 01:50:02,904
Okay.

1529
01:50:03,459 --> 01:50:08,784
I mean, it caps density to 125% for PRDs.

1530
01:50:10,164 --> 01:50:11,649
There were a number of other things.

1531
01:50:11,995 --> 01:50:17,830
Clearly defined visual qualities of the environment, certain things like

1532
01:50:17,830 --> 01:50:18,024
that.

1533
01:50:18,294 --> 01:50:18,654
Yeah.

1534
01:50:18,774 --> 01:50:20,755
So much different.

1535
01:50:21,534 --> 01:50:21,804
Okay.

1536
01:50:22,974 --> 01:50:24,745
Okay, I guess I'm all set.

1537
01:50:25,914 --> 01:50:28,404
I have a question about the condo docs.

1538
01:50:28,495 --> 01:50:29,064
Sure.

1539
01:50:29,245 --> 01:50:32,724
I think it's listed as age 62 for the age restriction.

1540
01:50:32,934 --> 01:50:33,069
Correct.

1541
01:50:33,069 --> 01:50:34,255
Should that be 65?

1542
01:50:34,464 --> 01:50:38,304
Was based on the federal rule, that was part of what came through from the

1543
01:50:38,455 --> 01:50:43,689
previous, let's go with Kirk Fuckle, from the debate about the-

1544
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:45,745
Oh. It was changed, okay.

1545
01:50:47,034 --> 01:50:52,734
Again, the documents from the housing appeals board, as approved, talk about

1546
01:50:52,794 --> 01:50:55,794
complying both with town and federal laws.

1547
01:50:55,973 --> 01:50:56,214
Okay.

1548
01:50:56,964 --> 01:50:59,214
So that's not a typo. It was a-

1549
01:50:59,575 --> 01:50:59,755
Okay

1550
01:50:59,844 --> 01:51:00,444
... purpose.

1551
01:51:00,624 --> 01:51:03,024
All right. And then you're keeping the seven rental units?

1552
01:51:03,084 --> 01:51:03,234
Yes.

1553
01:51:03,325 --> 01:51:06,774
Just to confirm. All right. Those are the only questions we had.

1554
01:51:06,924 --> 01:51:11,394
Yeah. Get back to the density calculation.

1555
01:51:11,515 --> 01:51:17,380
I know at one point you were wanting to convert the rentals to

1556
01:51:17,544 --> 01:51:19,974
selling units. Okay.

1557
01:51:22,434 --> 01:51:24,265
What is your plan on that?

1558
01:51:26,334 --> 01:51:30,955
The plan is to keep the rentals, because I think we had a conversation early on,

1559
01:51:31,015 --> 01:51:34,944
and I don't know if you were at that meeting, but just for updating.

1560
01:51:35,664 --> 01:51:40,884
It was clearly stated that that would appear to be a change to the conditional use

1561
01:51:40,974 --> 01:51:46,194
permit. And so, we were not interested in revisiting that, and so we

1562
01:51:46,794 --> 01:51:50,559
still have the rental restrictions incorporated in the project.

1563
01:51:50,604 --> 01:51:56,064
And your HOA plan, I didn't get all the way through it.

1564
01:51:56,484 --> 01:52:00,325
Reading those documents is not my forte.

1565
01:52:00,444 --> 01:52:03,384
Addresses people who are renting

1566
01:52:05,394 --> 01:52:10,314
there, and I guess who owns the properties that they're renting, I guess is

1567
01:52:11,455 --> 01:52:12,384
really the question.

1568
01:52:13,794 --> 01:52:19,734
Yeah, those are all very fair questions that we're not at

1569
01:52:19,765 --> 01:52:21,474
the point of determining that yet.

1570
01:52:21,594 --> 01:52:27,384
I will say that there will be more notations of

1571
01:52:27,444 --> 01:52:32,934
documents. They're currently, I believe, with town council again, hopefully. Okay.

1572
01:52:33,024 --> 01:52:33,234
Yeah.

1573
01:52:34,854 --> 01:52:38,694
So we'll keep working on that. And then again, the attorney general's office also

1574
01:52:38,755 --> 01:52:43,495
gets a review of the documents for a condominium development of this size.

1575
01:52:44,304 --> 01:52:49,944
So assuming we're approved for this piece, we can figure out the mechanism of

1576
01:52:50,094 --> 01:52:53,544
if it's association-owned or if it's

1577
01:52:54,955 --> 01:52:59,394
maintained by a carry-on successor owner of those seven units.

1578
01:53:00,024 --> 01:53:03,774
There's multiple options, and some of it comes down to just business decisions of

1579
01:53:03,804 --> 01:53:07,164
how our client would prefer to operate those.

1580
01:53:08,364 --> 01:53:08,904
Okay. And

1581
01:53:10,404 --> 01:53:16,224
just to kind of put it in perspective, all of the existing units along Rocky Hill

1582
01:53:16,314 --> 01:53:19,884
Road, I believe, are rental units right now.

1583
01:53:19,914 --> 01:53:20,515
That's correct.

1584
01:53:21,114 --> 01:53:26,274
And there's rental units on the property right now, and so there's a good

1585
01:53:26,364 --> 01:53:31,134
likelihood that our client may choose to retain them and just rent them out.

1586
01:53:31,224 --> 01:53:31,914
But,

1587
01:53:33,924 --> 01:53:35,484
that's the plan.

1588
01:53:36,234 --> 01:53:38,844
So through the condominium documents, they're not

1589
01:53:41,844 --> 01:53:47,005
segmented out. So if they maintain either ownership by our client or are sold

1590
01:53:48,384 --> 01:53:53,859
for the use of rentals to an entity that conglomerate owns those units, they would

1591
01:53:53,934 --> 01:53:59,124
still each be entitled to a vote under the regulations, same as any other

1592
01:53:59,154 --> 01:54:00,054
individual unit owner.

1593
01:54:00,205 --> 01:54:02,034
Now you bring up another question.

1594
01:54:02,394 --> 01:54:06,834
Somebody, another entity came in and bought those rental units.

1595
01:54:07,194 --> 01:54:11,755
Is there anything in the thing that says they always have to stay rental units,

1596
01:54:11,769 --> 01:54:14,664
they can no longer be-

1597
01:54:15,325 --> 01:54:16,614
They're deed restricted.

1598
01:54:16,644 --> 01:54:17,005
Right.

1599
01:54:17,664 --> 01:54:21,774
It says in it that the IHO regulation requires that they're deed restricted.

1600
01:54:25,374 --> 01:54:29,214
And I will say, I just opened the 2019 IHO regulation.

1601
01:54:29,274 --> 01:54:32,154
There's no reference to the PRD in there. It's a separate section.

1602
01:54:32,484 --> 01:54:36,054
Section 416 was the IHO,

1603
01:54:37,765 --> 01:54:41,648
and the PRD is actually 417.

1604
01:54:42,354 --> 01:54:47,394
Right. But it also says in the IHO, that's the mechanism of implementation for

1605
01:54:47,424 --> 01:54:49,794
those other sections.

1606
01:54:50,934 --> 01:54:52,974
Can I repeat one slide?

1607
01:54:57,024 --> 01:54:57,594
P1?

1608
01:54:57,864 --> 01:54:58,075
Yeah.

1609
01:55:03,414 --> 01:55:07,374
Okay. That's fair. Good. I thought you meant they were in the same section.

1610
01:55:07,434 --> 01:55:07,705
No.

1611
01:55:09,684 --> 01:55:09,939
I think-

1612
01:55:10,495 --> 01:55:10,914
Go ahead.

1613
01:55:11,874 --> 01:55:13,524
Excuse me, Pam. Just were you also done?

1614
01:55:13,944 --> 01:55:14,274
Yeah.

1615
01:55:14,664 --> 01:55:15,174
Okay.

1616
01:55:15,234 --> 01:55:16,974
Going back to the rentals.

1617
01:55:19,825 --> 01:55:23,604
Are most of these units that are going to be sold are going to be owner-occupied?

1618
01:55:24,039 --> 01:55:27,114
And if they're owner-occupied, can they rent it out?

1619
01:55:27,984 --> 01:55:31,194
We don't have a restriction presently drafted.

1620
01:55:31,344 --> 01:55:35,844
I don't know what your short-term or long-term rental rules in this town are.

1621
01:55:36,774 --> 01:55:37,734
Because a lot of people-

1622
01:55:37,884 --> 01:55:38,679
We have none

1623
01:55:38,755 --> 01:55:44,349
... that live in condominiums, they rent, they started out as something,

1624
01:55:44,934 --> 01:55:49,374
and then they moved away because they wanted to kind of-- And then they rent their

1625
01:55:49,614 --> 01:55:51,294
units out for years.

1626
01:55:51,353 --> 01:55:51,548
Mm-hmm.

1627
01:55:52,103 --> 01:55:54,205
Or months or whatever, kind of thing.

1628
01:55:54,294 --> 01:55:58,104
So that's what I was kind of wondering, because I was trying to read the documents,

1629
01:55:58,134 --> 01:56:03,009
going, "I don't understand a lot of it." But that's what I was wondering is if it's

1630
01:56:03,054 --> 01:56:08,964
owner-occupied, are they allowed to rent their properties out for months

1631
01:56:08,995 --> 01:56:12,969
or years of the summer or maybe just sublet them out?

1632
01:56:13,255 --> 01:56:17,934
I didn't specifically restrict that piece of that in here.

1633
01:56:19,554 --> 01:56:25,164
One thing about writing as declarant in these versus as the

1634
01:56:25,224 --> 01:56:31,015
board and unit owners later is if they determine that we'd like people

1635
01:56:31,075 --> 01:56:35,784
to own or occupy these, or we absolutely hate short-term renters or whatever the

1636
01:56:35,844 --> 01:56:40,884
case may be, there are opportunities to amend based on a certain amount of vote.

1637
01:56:41,394 --> 01:56:46,884
So this is still New Hampshire and a live free or die process here that

1638
01:56:48,414 --> 01:56:52,015
Mr. Tancredi is not going to be the end user living in these.

1639
01:56:52,089 --> 01:56:55,974
So I try not to put my thumb too hard on the scale for those decisions that will

1640
01:56:56,005 --> 01:57:00,624
eventually be made by the owners. But your question, again, is very well taken.

1641
01:57:01,464 --> 01:57:04,344
Sure, but just bring something about that again.

1642
01:57:04,705 --> 01:57:08,484
All those properties are going to be restricted to be 55 or older?

1643
01:57:10,434 --> 01:57:12,174
Only one has to be 55.

1644
01:57:12,534 --> 01:57:17,814
Right. And again, we're still working on the mechanism for how that will work.

1645
01:57:18,564 --> 01:57:22,194
Again, in terms of compliance review,

1646
01:57:24,234 --> 01:57:29,964
questions about if there's a restriction of 62 plus is that...

1647
01:57:32,245 --> 01:57:34,434
Yes, it needs to be complied with. That's clear.

1648
01:57:34,674 --> 01:57:37,104
But what level of restriction is necessary?

1649
01:57:37,134 --> 01:57:40,719
Because I don't want to necessarily devalue a property owner's--

1650
01:57:42,444 --> 01:57:45,174
Nobody prefers deed restrictions where they're unnecessary.

1651
01:57:45,654 --> 01:57:48,774
As title is run and you try to divest yourself of that property.

1652
01:57:49,314 --> 01:57:55,104
So if a 55-year-old buys it and lives there for 15 years, at some point, seven

1653
01:57:55,134 --> 01:58:00,955
years in, they're 62. Trying to figure out how compliance with that required

1654
01:58:01,044 --> 01:58:06,594
mix of 14 and 62 units is something that I'd actually ask the

1655
01:58:06,684 --> 01:58:10,223
board what the general preference is for that piece of this.

1656
01:58:10,644 --> 01:58:13,464
You're not even going that far. You're selling this-

1657
01:58:13,644 --> 01:58:14,005
65

1658
01:58:14,019 --> 01:58:17,304
... as a 55 plus community.

1659
01:58:17,934 --> 01:58:18,174
Mm-hmm.

1660
01:58:18,325 --> 01:58:20,664
Okay? How are you going to ensure

1661
01:58:22,158 --> 01:58:25,249
That the properties stay 55 plus.

1662
01:58:25,728 --> 01:58:25,803
Yeah.

1663
01:58:25,908 --> 01:58:31,879
I kind of look at this as there's companies out there that have

1664
01:58:31,908 --> 01:58:37,098
a bunch of houses and use them for corporate leases for people that are coming in

1665
01:58:37,249 --> 01:58:41,028
for three or six or eight months. Okay?

1666
01:58:41,178 --> 01:58:45,738
That's one of the things that's created some of the housing shortage nationwide.

1667
01:58:46,129 --> 01:58:49,323
I see 50 homes going in there,

1668
01:58:51,018 --> 01:58:55,518
somebody buying up a few of those and utilizing them as that where you no longer

1669
01:58:55,608 --> 01:59:01,458
have 55 plus. So how are we going to prevent things like

1670
01:59:01,488 --> 01:59:05,418
that happening? And like I said, I haven't gotten through the whole document, and I

1671
01:59:05,478 --> 01:59:10,008
probably don't understand it well enough anyways, so I'm kind of looking for the

1672
01:59:11,418 --> 01:59:14,868
30 second elevator pitch just saying, "Here's how we're going to control that."

1673
01:59:15,049 --> 01:59:18,738
Yeah. So again, because you have control through a board of directors of the

1674
01:59:18,799 --> 01:59:24,438
association as voted on by their peer owners here, what you have, you also have

1675
01:59:24,858 --> 01:59:30,828
the same general mechanisms of if you're parking a junk car on your lot, they

1676
01:59:30,858 --> 01:59:34,038
can tell you why you can't do that. At the same time, there is the clear

1677
01:59:34,188 --> 01:59:39,858
restriction that the whole community is 55 plus, 30% of it, 14 units, is

1678
01:59:40,158 --> 01:59:45,768
62 plus. So there's the opportunity for self-policing via the board here as

1679
01:59:45,858 --> 01:59:48,799
well, and then in compliance with FHA regulations.

1680
01:59:48,948 --> 01:59:49,338
I know.

1681
01:59:49,398 --> 01:59:50,898
So the homeowners association-

1682
01:59:52,608 --> 01:59:55,758
It's going to be addressed in the homeowners association.

1683
01:59:56,059 --> 02:00:01,457
It's 55 and older, and so you have to be 55 and older to buy in one person.

1684
02:00:01,788 --> 02:00:04,158
But what if you have a 39-year-old living with you?

1685
02:00:04,848 --> 02:00:06,228
You can. One person-

1686
02:00:06,319 --> 02:00:07,428
Two households.

1687
02:00:07,473 --> 02:00:07,473
Yeah.

1688
02:00:07,488 --> 02:00:10,458
I mean, yeah. You could, yeah. But

1689
02:00:11,688 --> 02:00:15,018
in the 55, you have to meet the 55 and older requirement.

1690
02:00:15,108 --> 02:00:15,288
Right.

1691
02:00:15,379 --> 02:00:17,598
Yeah. I mean, you got Summerfield right down the road.

1692
02:00:18,138 --> 02:00:21,168
I mean, 55 and older developments are very common.

1693
02:00:21,198 --> 02:00:24,874
It's regulated, it's quite successful, um-

1694
02:00:24,948 --> 02:00:29,538
I'm just trying to understand how this is going to be regulated successfully.

1695
02:00:29,553 --> 02:00:30,213
Right. Yeah.

1696
02:00:30,258 --> 02:00:33,888
On that. And to me, that's an important-

1697
02:00:35,059 --> 02:00:35,178
Sure

1698
02:00:35,448 --> 02:00:40,008
... feature in whether or not this is a viable subdivision, right?

1699
02:00:40,158 --> 02:00:41,538
Because how are we going to

1700
02:00:43,069 --> 02:00:46,428
ensure that? I understand keeping the rentals, that's great.

1701
02:00:46,968 --> 02:00:52,158
Are we just going to covet those so I don't get a bunch of college kids

1702
02:00:52,999 --> 02:00:56,358
renting those? Okay, so these are...

1703
02:00:57,559 --> 02:00:57,768
Right.

1704
02:00:57,948 --> 02:00:59,958
Rentals make it a little more challenging.

1705
02:01:00,258 --> 02:01:05,118
So it's restricted. I mean, you have to meet that criteria in order to

1706
02:01:06,198 --> 02:01:10,549
buy into the development. Right. Early on in this document, at the 2.7 statement of

1707
02:01:10,608 --> 02:01:14,478
condominium use, the condominium is exclusively intended for age-restricted

1708
02:01:14,569 --> 02:01:19,428
residential use and occupancy. In all units, at least one full-time resident must

1709
02:01:19,488 --> 02:01:25,309
be age 55 or over. In 14 units, one full-time resident must be age 62 or over.

1710
02:01:26,208 --> 02:01:31,999
Um, and then that you're allowed to have your kids or short-term guests visit at a

1711
02:01:32,059 --> 02:01:36,559
younger age, but less relevant. So there are these mechanisms and there is

1712
02:01:36,588 --> 02:01:42,468
enforcement through here. Again, some of it does come down to while we

1713
02:01:42,499 --> 02:01:47,629
are declarant and owner, we market these as 55 and 62 restricted units.

1714
02:01:48,799 --> 02:01:54,559
I see that there is conceivably some potential that some 39-year-old, which is

1715
02:01:54,618 --> 02:01:58,968
my age, decides that I want to move desperately into a 55 plus community.

1716
02:01:59,088 --> 02:02:04,908
But I think because we control the original sales, we will be

1717
02:02:05,059 --> 02:02:09,004
compliant with that, and then I think inertia goes as a 55 plus community.

1718
02:02:09,468 --> 02:02:13,833
Okay, but here I'm a 73-year-old, and let me decide I'm going to buy up six of

1719
02:02:13,908 --> 02:02:19,638
those and I'm going to use them as corporate housing and get $3,000 a

1720
02:02:19,668 --> 02:02:23,823
month for people that are working in the area for six months at a time.

1721
02:02:23,838 --> 02:02:29,178
But it'd be non-compliant, and then the homeowners association could...

1722
02:02:29,538 --> 02:02:32,254
There's a legal mechanism to stop you from doing that.

1723
02:02:32,299 --> 02:02:36,168
Right. That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm trying to understand.

1724
02:02:36,228 --> 02:02:36,678
Yes.

1725
02:02:36,708 --> 02:02:37,218
Here, so.

1726
02:02:37,624 --> 02:02:39,438
Yeah. These documents are enforceable.

1727
02:02:39,648 --> 02:02:42,408
They'll be enforced by the homeowners association.

1728
02:02:42,438 --> 02:02:42,602
There's

1729
02:02:43,819 --> 02:02:45,468
rules and bylaws as well.

1730
02:02:45,559 --> 02:02:51,124
I mean, how, if, as Doug says, if

1731
02:02:51,168 --> 02:02:57,078
somebody buys a unit and they comply, if there's no deed restriction,

1732
02:03:00,528 --> 02:03:02,538
which would tie it to financing.

1733
02:03:03,858 --> 02:03:05,147
If there's financing.

1734
02:03:05,268 --> 02:03:07,262
If there's financing. But, I mean,

1735
02:03:09,138 --> 02:03:12,588
what enforcement options are there?

1736
02:03:12,978 --> 02:03:16,249
I mean, a homeowners association can't

1737
02:03:18,228 --> 02:03:20,148
file a lien or can't-

1738
02:03:21,288 --> 02:03:22,127
Yes, they can.

1739
02:03:22,218 --> 02:03:22,293
Oh, they can? Yeah.

1740
02:03:22,293 --> 02:03:25,368
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and this is like, I mean, think about it.

1741
02:03:25,938 --> 02:03:29,102
Well, first of all, I really think in a housing situation like this-

1742
02:03:29,102 --> 02:03:29,102
Oh, yeah

1743
02:03:29,358 --> 02:03:31,428
... we would have issues like this all over the place.

1744
02:03:31,668 --> 02:03:32,088
I agree.

1745
02:03:32,148 --> 02:03:36,408
We've done a lot of these types of developments, and they self-police very well.

1746
02:03:37,038 --> 02:03:39,768
Retired people self-police very well.

1747
02:03:40,218 --> 02:03:41,088
I mean-

1748
02:03:43,879 --> 02:03:44,268
We do.

1749
02:03:46,788 --> 02:03:50,838
I would be willing to bet Gloria could attest to that.

1750
02:03:50,898 --> 02:03:53,343
I mean, they spend a lot of time-

1751
02:03:54,918 --> 02:03:56,749
Walking around

1752
02:03:56,838 --> 02:03:57,948
... walking around.

1753
02:03:57,963 --> 02:03:59,674
Patrolling. Virtual patrolling.

1754
02:04:00,379 --> 02:04:05,208
Mr. Lee, just because I happen to get to this answer in your lien question, is 7.7

1755
02:04:05,238 --> 02:04:08,358
of the bylaws, enforcement of liens for unpaid common charges.

1756
02:04:08,388 --> 02:04:11,838
The association shall have a lien on a unit for any assessment levied against the

1757
02:04:11,868 --> 02:04:17,178
unit which remained unpaid, plus any interest accrued on said assessment from the

1758
02:04:17,208 --> 02:04:21,198
time the assessment is made. The association's lien may be foreclosed in like

1759
02:04:21,288 --> 02:04:22,908
manner as a mortgage on real estate.

1760
02:04:22,968 --> 02:04:28,698
The provisions of RSA 356B.46 are expressly incorporated into the provision of this

1761
02:04:28,758 --> 02:04:29,238
section.

1762
02:04:29,658 --> 02:04:29,928
Okay.

1763
02:04:30,438 --> 02:04:35,629
That's, again, not directly on point to the first question, but there is a

1764
02:04:35,688 --> 02:04:37,458
statutory right to lien here.

1765
02:04:37,743 --> 02:04:37,758
Okay.

1766
02:04:37,788 --> 02:04:43,698
And 55, I would say, and this is my take, but I would say this development

1767
02:04:43,788 --> 02:04:49,578
being all 55 and older is far more enforceable than a blended community

1768
02:04:49,668 --> 02:04:54,499
where you're expected to see a playground, and you're expected to see 55 and older,

1769
02:04:54,528 --> 02:04:58,938
which is what was kind of happening with the original plan.

1770
02:04:59,299 --> 02:05:01,458
This community, I mean,

1771
02:05:04,518 --> 02:05:07,698
it's not just who's living there, it's the activity outside.

1772
02:05:07,743 --> 02:05:13,488
It's the stuff that comes with a younger family or whatever.

1773
02:05:13,549 --> 02:05:17,868
It just is not acceptable in a community like this. It wouldn't.

1774
02:05:17,928 --> 02:05:18,858
It just doesn't exist.

1775
02:05:19,938 --> 02:05:22,908
Yeah. Right. Just... You all set?

1776
02:05:24,258 --> 02:05:26,898
I guess just one general comment and we'll go to you.

1777
02:05:28,038 --> 02:05:32,268
One of the things, since we're on the topic of the condo docs, I have never seen a

1778
02:05:32,299 --> 02:05:38,013
situation where you're

1779
02:05:38,028 --> 02:05:41,898
bumping up against federal and state law, obviously, with HOPA on this.

1780
02:05:42,874 --> 02:05:47,733
And generally speaking, a homeowners association can be one or the other.

1781
02:05:47,778 --> 02:05:53,598
It can be 55 plus or 62 plus. But I've never seen anywhere where it can be

1782
02:05:53,629 --> 02:05:59,358
both. And I think there are actually some towns in New Hampshire that don't allow

1783
02:05:59,418 --> 02:06:04,218
those two to be commingled. I forget the name of the town offhand, but I did find

1784
02:06:04,309 --> 02:06:08,088
one. So, I think you got to be really careful with how you do this.

1785
02:06:08,148 --> 02:06:11,208
I mean, I've seen one way of doing it is having a master association with two

1786
02:06:11,328 --> 02:06:14,688
sub-associations or something like that where they're separate.

1787
02:06:14,988 --> 02:06:20,358
Because I think we're obviously getting bonus density to make sure that

1788
02:06:21,049 --> 02:06:23,448
one part is 55 plus and one is 62 plus.

1789
02:06:23,508 --> 02:06:23,809
Right.

1790
02:06:24,049 --> 02:06:27,408
And I think the way these documents are written right now won't ensure that.

1791
02:06:28,608 --> 02:06:34,249
But I think town council went through and put a bunch of 62s here and there because

1792
02:06:34,278 --> 02:06:35,868
there weren't any in the original document.

1793
02:06:35,928 --> 02:06:39,228
I think that's probably the way you intended it, because I think you intended it to

1794
02:06:39,258 --> 02:06:43,938
be 55 plus, and then also say some can be 62 plus.

1795
02:06:44,238 --> 02:06:46,638
But I don't think those would be legally 62 plus.

1796
02:06:46,908 --> 02:06:51,918
I think that would open you up to some problems, with age discrimination.

1797
02:06:52,038 --> 02:06:52,278
Yeah.

1798
02:06:52,578 --> 02:06:57,738
So what if somebody that was over 55 but was, let's say 61,

1799
02:06:58,488 --> 02:07:03,049
and wanted to buy one of those units that was 62 plus? How would you stop them?

1800
02:07:03,828 --> 02:07:06,633
Yeah. And that is, again, the FHA piece of all of that.

1801
02:07:06,708 --> 02:07:07,008
Right.

1802
02:07:09,499 --> 02:07:14,778
So I don't know. I think those documents have a ways to go.

1803
02:07:15,049 --> 02:07:19,999
Look, I'm no expert, but I have operated condo associations before.

1804
02:07:20,028 --> 02:07:23,928
I've just never seen that. So I think it's a similar problem you would've bumped

1805
02:07:23,958 --> 02:07:25,788
into with the way it was before, so.

1806
02:07:26,958 --> 02:07:27,138
Okay

1807
02:07:27,408 --> 02:07:33,348
... of financial management people that do the finances, and the HOA takes care

1808
02:07:33,408 --> 02:07:37,368
of everything around them. At least of the HOAs that I've dealt with.

1809
02:07:37,549 --> 02:07:37,668
Yeah.

1810
02:07:37,908 --> 02:07:42,588
They have two separate things. One's financial, one's maintenance. I get your call.

1811
02:07:42,678 --> 02:07:44,508
Okay. I just have,

1812
02:07:46,819 --> 02:07:48,948
well, a comment and question.

1813
02:07:50,418 --> 02:07:56,208
I would direct you for the purposes of

1814
02:07:56,268 --> 02:08:01,968
looking at short-term rentals. We did just pass a short-term rental

1815
02:08:02,028 --> 02:08:07,999
restriction, so you'll want to take a look at that, and it should be

1816
02:08:08,148 --> 02:08:09,348
referenced or addressed

1817
02:08:10,608 --> 02:08:12,047
in your documents.

1818
02:08:13,338 --> 02:08:17,208
In terms of compliance, it's like people when they're--

1819
02:08:20,059 --> 02:08:25,578
I mean, I've never bought a place with the expectation that I'm going to just rent

1820
02:08:25,638 --> 02:08:26,569
it out short-term.

1821
02:08:26,629 --> 02:08:26,838
Right.

1822
02:08:26,898 --> 02:08:32,299
But there are those that do, and I think we need to be explicit about

1823
02:08:32,328 --> 02:08:35,118
that's not something that's allowed in Amherst.

1824
02:08:35,688 --> 02:08:37,608
So

1825
02:08:39,768 --> 02:08:41,793
my question is, what--

1826
02:08:44,613 --> 02:08:49,444
I'm not going to say in here you can't sell illegal drugs out of your unit or

1827
02:08:49,458 --> 02:08:53,809
something like that either, because there are certain things where anybody buying a

1828
02:08:53,838 --> 02:08:56,358
building understands compliance with.

1829
02:08:57,768 --> 02:09:01,698
I think that if I were going to buy one of these for the explicit purpose of

1830
02:09:01,848 --> 02:09:07,698
renting them short-term, as part of my due diligence, I need to know what the

1831
02:09:07,728 --> 02:09:11,613
local restriction is, and I don't think that comes from the condominium documents

1832
02:09:11,658 --> 02:09:17,088
because this is conceivably a largely perpetual document, whereas short-term

1833
02:09:17,148 --> 02:09:20,028
housing may be the coolest thing in the world in two decades.

1834
02:09:20,148 --> 02:09:21,228
But the condominium-

1835
02:09:22,549 --> 02:09:24,049
I doubt that very seriously, but-

1836
02:09:24,319 --> 02:09:25,758
I do too. But you know,

1837
02:09:27,093 --> 02:09:30,618
the IHO existed for a while too, and these things.

1838
02:09:30,678 --> 02:09:31,053
So it's-

1839
02:09:31,129 --> 02:09:34,908
All right. Fair enough. I mean, I just bring it up as an issue.

1840
02:09:35,028 --> 02:09:38,208
I don't disagree with you. I'm just not sure condominium documents are the

1841
02:09:38,238 --> 02:09:42,948
mechanism for alerting someone that their business model isn't appropriate or

1842
02:09:43,069 --> 02:09:43,668
permitted.

1843
02:09:43,999 --> 02:09:45,978
That would be why we passed the ordinance. Yeah.

1844
02:09:46,038 --> 02:09:46,368
That would be-

1845
02:09:47,958 --> 02:09:51,559
I mean, if I was targeting short-term rentals, I probably wouldn't target a

1846
02:09:51,588 --> 02:09:52,728
restricted development.

1847
02:09:53,538 --> 02:09:57,528
No, fair enough. The other question I have is,

1848
02:09:59,928 --> 02:10:02,208
and I don't want to open up a whole can of worms here, but

1849
02:10:02,688 --> 02:10:08,073
are there waiver

1850
02:10:08,118 --> 02:10:08,868
requests

1851
02:10:11,358 --> 02:10:12,858
as a part of this application?

1852
02:10:13,968 --> 02:10:15,978
I mean, I think-

1853
02:10:16,098 --> 02:10:16,684
Because the

1854
02:10:18,918 --> 02:10:21,438
staff report indicates that in 2020,

1855
02:10:23,358 --> 02:10:28,398
planning board denied waiver requests for environmental, hydrogeology, and traffic

1856
02:10:28,458 --> 02:10:30,049
studies. I know we have traffic studies.

1857
02:10:30,198 --> 02:10:30,934
We have all of those.

1858
02:10:31,069 --> 02:10:32,268
We have all of those studies.

1859
02:10:32,299 --> 02:10:32,313
Yeah.

1860
02:10:32,328 --> 02:10:38,088
And so in lieu of the waiver, you

1861
02:10:38,148 --> 02:10:41,868
guys prepared the applicable studies and that's all taken care of.

1862
02:10:41,882 --> 02:10:42,362
Yeah. Those were-

1863
02:10:42,379 --> 02:10:45,648
So there are no other... I mean, there were-

1864
02:10:46,758 --> 02:10:49,158
We did get waivers on road width, I believe.

1865
02:10:49,309 --> 02:10:49,848
Right. Those-

1866
02:10:49,908 --> 02:10:51,768
And those were approved already.

1867
02:10:52,098 --> 02:10:53,208
Right. Okay.

1868
02:10:53,282 --> 02:10:54,138
Yeah.

1869
02:10:54,198 --> 02:10:57,618
Okay. So your position is that they would be part of this approval as well?

1870
02:10:58,398 --> 02:10:58,668
Oh, yeah.

1871
02:10:58,819 --> 02:10:59,749
Part of this application.

1872
02:10:59,809 --> 02:11:05,388
Yeah. I think that they got remanded back to the board, which means all votes that

1873
02:11:05,418 --> 02:11:09,799
the board had, in my opinion, all votes that the board had on the application up to

1874
02:11:09,858 --> 02:11:10,997
that point are valid.

1875
02:11:11,418 --> 02:11:15,903
Okay. All right. Fair enough. Like I said, I didn't want to open up a whole can of

1876
02:11:15,948 --> 02:11:16,908
worms. I just wanted to-

1877
02:11:17,898 --> 02:11:18,738
No new waivers.

1878
02:11:19,098 --> 02:11:23,268
No new waivers. Okay. We're all good here. Anybody in the audience?

1879
02:11:24,438 --> 02:11:28,518
Nobody? Nobody online? All right.

1880
02:11:30,918 --> 02:11:33,513
I don't know. What's everybody's druthers right now?

1881
02:11:36,049 --> 02:11:40,879
I'm a little concerned that condo docs aren't really that close yet, I don't think,

1882
02:11:40,999 --> 02:11:41,238
but...

1883
02:11:43,069 --> 02:11:49,023
I mean, typically we make those a conditional approval because we don't really

1884
02:11:49,069 --> 02:11:50,838
have all that much to do with them anyway.

1885
02:11:51,018 --> 02:11:51,379
Yeah.

1886
02:11:52,938 --> 02:11:55,218
But I would defer to

1887
02:11:56,898 --> 02:11:58,188
whatever we would do.

1888
02:11:59,658 --> 02:11:59,809
Fair

1889
02:12:01,129 --> 02:12:01,143
enough.

1890
02:12:01,158 --> 02:12:04,578
Well, we can have a vote. We'll table the conversation.

1891
02:12:04,638 --> 02:12:05,868
And we're dealing all the notifications.

1892
02:12:05,928 --> 02:12:06,319
Yes.

1893
02:12:06,408 --> 02:12:08,928
We also didn't discuss phasing.

1894
02:12:09,049 --> 02:12:11,749
Yeah. I mean, why don't we talk about phasing?

1895
02:12:13,549 --> 02:12:19,069
I mean, I feel comfortable saying just go for it.

1896
02:12:19,488 --> 02:12:19,728
Yeah.

1897
02:12:21,319 --> 02:12:23,809
I mean, we do have phasing in our ordinance.

1898
02:12:24,198 --> 02:12:24,978
Yep.

1899
02:12:25,728 --> 02:12:30,799
And that is where something this size would be four years, wouldn't it?

1900
02:12:31,158 --> 02:12:34,848
Well, it says ours goes up to 20 lots.

1901
02:12:34,938 --> 02:12:40,578
So it says that takes four years, and then not more than 25% of the dwelling units

1902
02:12:40,608 --> 02:12:43,218
receiving building permits in any one-year period.

1903
02:12:43,278 --> 02:12:44,493
Not more than 20%.

1904
02:12:44,898 --> 02:12:45,258
25.

1905
02:12:45,738 --> 02:12:46,578
25%.

1906
02:12:46,819 --> 02:12:49,924
Lots. Right. And it's, it talks about-

1907
02:12:49,952 --> 02:12:52,069
I mean, but the

1908
02:12:53,328 --> 02:12:59,208
applicant is correct that the reason for phasing is not only is

1909
02:12:59,268 --> 02:13:03,078
traffic impacts and school impacts and all of that.

1910
02:13:04,758 --> 02:13:10,278
But the reality of the marketplace is that they're not going to be able to build

1911
02:13:10,309 --> 02:13:12,978
and sell 50 units in-

1912
02:13:14,898 --> 02:13:15,438
Mm-hmm

1913
02:13:15,452 --> 02:13:20,088
... less than four years in. I mean, I don't think.

1914
02:13:20,658 --> 02:13:24,379
I mean, look at what Brett Blonds' doing, and he's building three houses a year.

1915
02:13:26,088 --> 02:13:27,379
Yeah.

1916
02:13:27,438 --> 02:13:30,588
But then there was also that little one by local school.

1917
02:13:31,038 --> 02:13:32,809
They put them all up pretty much at once.

1918
02:13:32,958 --> 02:13:33,167
Yeah.

1919
02:13:34,249 --> 02:13:35,194
The one on, was it-

1920
02:13:35,299 --> 02:13:36,768
They're not all sold, though.

1921
02:13:36,888 --> 02:13:40,518
No, they're almost there. I think they just sold the last one.

1922
02:13:40,578 --> 02:13:41,823
Yeah. The last one, I think, is one-

1923
02:13:41,928 --> 02:13:43,292
But those all were pretty much built at once.

1924
02:13:43,292 --> 02:13:44,718
It's pretty fast. Yeah.

1925
02:13:44,898 --> 02:13:45,049
So.

1926
02:13:46,038 --> 02:13:49,428
So the proposed conditions,

1927
02:13:50,657 --> 02:13:55,129
we have a couple of questions and comments, and that also does include phasing,

1928
02:13:55,188 --> 02:13:59,012
which we flagged for discussion. It might make sense to just work through-

1929
02:13:59,088 --> 02:13:59,299
Okay

1930
02:13:59,328 --> 02:14:00,799
... staff's list.

1931
02:14:00,858 --> 02:14:01,338
Okay.

1932
02:14:04,458 --> 02:14:07,338
For the first-- Second. Excuse me.

1933
02:14:07,398 --> 02:14:12,528
For conditions precedent on 12 is the development

1934
02:14:12,588 --> 02:14:18,049
agreement. I think that generally probably relates to a more

1935
02:14:18,108 --> 02:14:24,093
complex project, a little less homogenous than the type of housing we're

1936
02:14:24,138 --> 02:14:29,299
building here. I don't know your thoughts on a development agreement in addition to

1937
02:14:29,358 --> 02:14:29,898
approval.

1938
02:14:31,188 --> 02:14:33,723
Okay. Any thoughts?

1939
02:14:34,158 --> 02:14:34,174
No.

1940
02:14:34,174 --> 02:14:39,588
Well, I mean, I think typically development agreements are when there are, or

1941
02:14:39,648 --> 02:14:44,988
relate to timing of exactments and timing of infrastructure

1942
02:14:45,049 --> 02:14:45,738
improvements-

1943
02:14:45,918 --> 02:14:46,098
Right

1944
02:14:46,129 --> 02:14:47,538
... or public improvements.

1945
02:14:49,098 --> 02:14:50,374
There aren't a lot of those.

1946
02:14:51,648 --> 02:14:57,319
And that's really nothing. And I don't see that section in the 2019 version of the

1947
02:14:57,408 --> 02:15:00,993
IHO. Am I missing something, Britt?

1948
02:15:05,898 --> 02:15:10,458
Because that section was 4.16, and this is

1949
02:15:10,999 --> 02:15:12,198
5.084.

1950
02:15:12,288 --> 02:15:15,499
There's a section 4.16, and then there's also-

1951
02:15:16,278 --> 02:15:19,174
Those are the regulations. Yeah. You would call that-

1952
02:15:19,203 --> 02:15:20,299
The part five. Yeah.

1953
02:15:23,718 --> 02:15:29,613
I mean, is it necessary to, and maybe I haven't gotten

1954
02:15:29,688 --> 02:15:32,868
a chance to go through this whole big document yet, but

1955
02:15:36,799 --> 02:15:37,249
is it

1956
02:15:39,738 --> 02:15:40,999
necessary to

1957
02:15:43,338 --> 02:15:47,478
craft an agreement with the town with regard to

1958
02:15:50,868 --> 02:15:56,118
payment and timing of inspections or

1959
02:15:57,678 --> 02:15:58,968
other actions

1960
02:16:01,188 --> 02:16:04,338
by the town for the development?

1961
02:16:08,778 --> 02:16:11,538
I mean, having had recent experience in that regard.

1962
02:16:11,629 --> 02:16:14,658
Oh, just a lot of quick points of clarification.

1963
02:16:14,898 --> 02:16:19,999
The 5.4 does say, "Execution of a development agreement or other similar

1964
02:16:20,059 --> 02:16:24,379
instruments specifying the phasing, timing, and sequence of the improvements within

1965
02:16:24,408 --> 02:16:28,518
the IHO project." So I guess it doesn't have to be a development agreement if

1966
02:16:28,549 --> 02:16:32,239
there's something else that addresses those

1967
02:16:32,748 --> 02:16:34,819
criteria.

1968
02:16:34,832 --> 02:16:34,832
Like a deed?

1969
02:16:34,848 --> 02:16:35,778
A what?

1970
02:16:35,838 --> 02:16:38,313
Yeah, like a random agreement or something like that.

1971
02:16:40,363 --> 02:16:42,702
I mean, especially with something that lays out dates.

1972
02:16:42,793 --> 02:16:47,681
We also have, as we continue through here, there's questions about when the project

1973
02:16:47,742 --> 02:16:50,067
bests number of complete, and I think-

1974
02:16:50,652 --> 02:16:53,997
I feel like your conditional approval letters are becoming a development agreement.

1975
02:16:54,057 --> 02:16:55,122
They're very thorough.

1976
02:16:56,652 --> 02:16:58,902
They detail a lot.

1977
02:17:01,632 --> 02:17:02,637
And I mean that in a very-

1978
02:17:02,682 --> 02:17:03,898
No, it is-

1979
02:17:03,942 --> 02:17:09,582
I mean that in a very positive direction. But it is very itemized, which is...

1980
02:17:10,572 --> 02:17:13,782
It does outline everything that you would see in a development agreement.

1981
02:17:14,113 --> 02:17:14,532
I think so.

1982
02:17:15,402 --> 02:17:21,043
And so I would suggest that if we can walk through this, that this document

1983
02:17:21,192 --> 02:17:24,372
in the way it's presented addresses all the elements.

1984
02:17:24,732 --> 02:17:27,613
Approval with conditions, which would outline-

1985
02:17:27,762 --> 02:17:29,863
Yeah, the impact fees, the launch-

1986
02:17:29,877 --> 02:17:31,872
Okay. So what else?

1987
02:17:32,682 --> 02:17:38,262
Okay. Conditions subsequent. Number

1988
02:17:38,382 --> 02:17:42,192
nine, all work on the roads shall be subject to the monitoring and oversight of the

1989
02:17:42,222 --> 02:17:46,332
director of public works and town's consultant engineer at the applicant's expense,

1990
02:17:46,482 --> 02:17:51,087
bonding for the road, road acceptance by the town, if applicable, inspections,

1991
02:17:51,222 --> 02:17:56,187
as-built plans, and any other applicable regulations as detailed in Section 211 of

1992
02:17:56,202 --> 02:17:59,712
the Amer Subdivision regulations are required.

1993
02:17:59,802 --> 02:18:05,337
With roads intended to be kept private throughout,

1994
02:18:06,432 --> 02:18:11,262
that seems like a lot of inspections and a lot of time spent by town staff and

1995
02:18:11,293 --> 02:18:16,992
consulting engineers. We typically do a restoration bond on

1996
02:18:17,232 --> 02:18:22,872
private property like this, because there's no liability on the

1997
02:18:22,932 --> 02:18:28,662
town at all, relative to people. They're not taking the road over, so

1998
02:18:28,722 --> 02:18:31,182
the inspections are typically done.

1999
02:18:31,932 --> 02:18:36,627
We do weekly inspections for stormwater and erosion control on projects as part of

2000
02:18:36,673 --> 02:18:41,562
the alteration of train permit and EPA, general construction permit.

2001
02:18:42,462 --> 02:18:47,773
But there's not typically an inspection requirement

2002
02:18:48,192 --> 02:18:48,492
by

2003
02:18:50,502 --> 02:18:55,662
the town or your consultant on private projects relative to that.

2004
02:18:56,052 --> 02:18:59,023
Now we certainly have no objection to

2005
02:19:00,972 --> 02:19:04,452
Mr. Keach or K&A inspecting stormwater elements.

2006
02:19:04,603 --> 02:19:08,113
We have to do that as part of the alteration of train permit.

2007
02:19:08,532 --> 02:19:12,673
But if the board feels that he needs to look at that element as it relates to

2008
02:19:12,702 --> 02:19:16,978
making sure that there's compliance, we're fine with that, but-

2009
02:19:16,992 --> 02:19:22,543
Will there be an engineer certification that the project

2010
02:19:23,232 --> 02:19:26,082
meets or exceeds the standards in the approved documents?

2011
02:19:26,412 --> 02:19:30,853
Yeah. We do provide that at the... We could do that as a compliance component of

2012
02:19:30,882 --> 02:19:31,452
the project.

2013
02:19:31,482 --> 02:19:32,427
Yeah. I mean-

2014
02:19:32,502 --> 02:19:35,322
We have to do that for the alteration of train permits nowadays.

2015
02:19:35,652 --> 02:19:36,222
Oh, okay.

2016
02:19:36,613 --> 02:19:41,173
Where we have to certify that the elements were constructed in accordance with the

2017
02:19:41,202 --> 02:19:41,501
plan.

2018
02:19:41,562 --> 02:19:44,412
And what concerns me

2019
02:19:45,762 --> 02:19:48,238
about that is that,

2020
02:19:49,872 --> 02:19:52,016
fast forward 30 years from now,

2021
02:19:53,293 --> 02:19:56,756
and you've got an owners' association that

2022
02:19:59,052 --> 02:20:04,287
may or may not be adequately capitalized to deal with

2023
02:20:05,142 --> 02:20:10,543
replacement of a roadway, and somebody's looking to the town saying, "How did you

2024
02:20:10,572 --> 02:20:11,502
let them build this?"

2025
02:20:12,882 --> 02:20:15,912
Which is kind of like Cub Circle comes to mind.

2026
02:20:19,602 --> 02:20:19,842
So,

2027
02:20:22,842 --> 02:20:22,872
I

2028
02:20:25,482 --> 02:20:30,613
trust that it will be constructed correctly, don't get me wrong, but

2029
02:20:32,412 --> 02:20:38,293
I don't want anything coming back to the town

2030
02:20:40,062 --> 02:20:45,942
in general, or to this board specifically, to say, "You guys dropped the ball

2031
02:20:45,972 --> 02:20:49,632
on this, and you let this developer get away with something."

2032
02:20:50,382 --> 02:20:53,982
The other thing to consider that might be helpful is,

2033
02:20:55,722 --> 02:20:58,782
Attorney Linnell mentioned the attorney general's process.

2034
02:20:58,842 --> 02:20:59,802
Episode as well.

2035
02:20:59,832 --> 02:21:05,817
The attorney general approval for a project like this over 25 units, requires that

2036
02:21:05,892 --> 02:21:10,092
the developer bond the project through at that level.

2037
02:21:10,602 --> 02:21:11,352
And so when

2038
02:21:12,972 --> 02:21:18,822
local entities require it bonding, it's a double hit on the developer.

2039
02:21:18,912 --> 02:21:24,807
So they do the research to make sure that it's secured,

2040
02:21:24,852 --> 02:21:29,652
and they also require bonding at the AG level to make sure that future homeowners

2041
02:21:30,522 --> 02:21:33,897
that are buying into the project don't have risk on that-

2042
02:21:33,927 --> 02:21:38,202
So there's a bond in place for the benefit of homeowners?

2043
02:21:38,922 --> 02:21:40,332
Yeah. That's part of-

2044
02:21:41,202 --> 02:21:43,062
And how long does that bond stay in place?

2045
02:21:43,543 --> 02:21:48,912
I don't know specifically. I have several AG approvals pending right now, so I

2046
02:21:48,972 --> 02:21:49,617
could look into that, but-

2047
02:21:49,632 --> 02:21:54,522
I mean, so, and it does raise another sort of check mark for your

2048
02:21:55,422 --> 02:21:57,102
condominium documents.

2049
02:21:58,812 --> 02:21:58,856
Yes.

2050
02:22:00,447 --> 02:22:05,577
Given what has happened down in Florida with condominium associations and

2051
02:22:05,832 --> 02:22:10,272
collapsing buildings because homeowners can't afford to fix them.

2052
02:22:12,702 --> 02:22:18,072
It's an issue. And I would hope that the

2053
02:22:18,102 --> 02:22:20,412
developer would be required to

2054
02:22:25,302 --> 02:22:29,952
put the homeowners association off on the right foot with some level of

2055
02:22:30,012 --> 02:22:32,082
capitalization for future improvements.

2056
02:22:32,232 --> 02:22:35,802
I mean, I don't know whether that's standard, but

2057
02:22:37,062 --> 02:22:42,732
adequate capitalization of these projects is something that I think is critical and

2058
02:22:42,793 --> 02:22:44,981
probably is usually overlooked.

2059
02:22:45,222 --> 02:22:49,812
Right. So one thing to consider, and I don't disagree with you at all, is

2060
02:22:50,652 --> 02:22:55,032
capitalization for a building is way different than capitalization for

2061
02:22:55,332 --> 02:22:57,432
infrastructure, like site work infrastructure.

2062
02:22:57,552 --> 02:22:58,272
Right.

2063
02:22:58,332 --> 02:23:02,712
And what I mean by that is there's a lifespan with everything.

2064
02:23:03,492 --> 02:23:09,072
But when you look at a condominium association and creating capital accounts, which

2065
02:23:09,131 --> 02:23:15,027
we don't really get involved in a lot, but they're starting at ground zero with a

2066
02:23:15,043 --> 02:23:20,802
brand new construction project. So the pavement's not an issue for 15 to 20

2067
02:23:20,832 --> 02:23:25,182
years, and so that capital account gets to grow

2068
02:23:26,412 --> 02:23:27,522
for a long period of time.

2069
02:23:28,962 --> 02:23:33,988
And there has to be allocations and stuff, but that is something that's policed by

2070
02:23:34,062 --> 02:23:40,032
the homeowners association. And I just think that it's different when

2071
02:23:40,062 --> 02:23:43,122
you're... And they own the building, so it's their own investment.

2072
02:23:43,182 --> 02:23:46,812
They have to account for the structures themselves.

2073
02:23:48,252 --> 02:23:50,802
The multifamily structures is a completely different animal.

2074
02:23:50,863 --> 02:23:52,092
Yeah. Granted.

2075
02:23:52,242 --> 02:23:52,302
Yeah.

2076
02:23:52,363 --> 02:23:57,522
I'm not saying that that level of tragedy is going to happen here, but

2077
02:23:59,322 --> 02:24:02,322
homeowners being who they are, have different

2078
02:24:03,672 --> 02:24:04,692
levels of

2079
02:24:07,902 --> 02:24:11,502
sophistication with regards to looking at those issues.

2080
02:24:11,562 --> 02:24:12,252
And that's where-

2081
02:24:12,297 --> 02:24:15,642
And sometimes, when you're writing that check to the homeowners association, it's

2082
02:24:15,672 --> 02:24:20,622
like, "Huh, I wonder if there's any way to pair this back," so you get the board in

2083
02:24:20,712 --> 02:24:25,212
place, and before you know it, there's no money to do what needs to be done.

2084
02:24:25,272 --> 02:24:30,072
And that's where projects of, frankly, this size are more successful, because you

2085
02:24:30,162 --> 02:24:31,422
have a more active and

2086
02:24:33,702 --> 02:24:35,472
more vibrant

2087
02:24:36,672 --> 02:24:40,077
homeowners association, typically, and the collection is

2088
02:24:41,952 --> 02:24:45,087
better. I'm sure the enforcement's better. But, yeah.

2089
02:24:45,912 --> 02:24:46,092
Okay.

2090
02:24:46,437 --> 02:24:51,942
I just have one question. Since this is a 55 plus, will these roads be up to,

2091
02:24:51,957 --> 02:24:55,677
because I'm sure there'll be a lot of ambulances and fire trucks that will be going

2092
02:24:55,722 --> 02:25:01,332
in there. I know you kind of shrunk the roads. Are they going to be big enough?

2093
02:25:01,467 --> 02:25:02,772
Because we have a big fire truck.

2094
02:25:03,132 --> 02:25:04,257
Oh, yeah.

2095
02:25:04,302 --> 02:25:07,092
I just want to make sure that they can get in and out safely.

2096
02:25:07,182 --> 02:25:12,012
Yeah. The fire department actually has reviewed this plan, in the past.

2097
02:25:13,302 --> 02:25:17,262
The width has changed, but we still have three points of access.

2098
02:25:17,652 --> 02:25:22,302
It's very easily accessible travel-wise.

2099
02:25:22,392 --> 02:25:24,912
The radiuses are favorable on the road.

2100
02:25:25,842 --> 02:25:31,662
And more importantly, the depth of materials meets the regulations for the weight

2101
02:25:31,692 --> 02:25:37,182
of vehicles. And then, on this site especially, we have very good soil, so even the

2102
02:25:37,272 --> 02:25:41,532
underlying soils are quite favorable too. So those have been accounted for.

2103
02:25:41,832 --> 02:25:43,032
Good question.

2104
02:25:44,832 --> 02:25:45,492
What's next?

2105
02:25:47,262 --> 02:25:47,982
On me?

2106
02:25:50,142 --> 02:25:54,177
Number 10, homes in this development shall be chosen from the list of architectural

2107
02:25:54,252 --> 02:25:57,972
options approved by this board, so on and so forth.

2108
02:25:58,932 --> 02:26:04,272
We were hoping something like shall comply with the elements provided by the

2109
02:26:04,363 --> 02:26:09,342
applicant as exemplars. Remember we had the four different...

2110
02:26:09,372 --> 02:26:14,113
We had renderings for buildings. What we were representing is just architectural

2111
02:26:14,172 --> 02:26:20,113
elements and nice architecture. But it wasn't a selection of, "Hey, pick

2112
02:26:20,142 --> 02:26:25,962
this, pick this, pick this." Oh. And so, what is important here, I think,

2113
02:26:26,022 --> 02:26:31,962
is to say that those features and elements will be adopted as part of

2114
02:26:32,052 --> 02:26:35,293
the architectural standards for this plan.

2115
02:26:36,102 --> 02:26:39,012
But we don't have four plans that...

2116
02:26:39,057 --> 02:26:41,682
And we don't want to limit it to four plans either.

2117
02:26:41,742 --> 02:26:46,962
We want the ability to make some modifications as long as the architectural

2118
02:26:47,022 --> 02:26:52,092
elements are consistent with what was- So you're saying instead of shall be chosen

2119
02:26:52,182 --> 02:26:55,752
from the list, should- Shall be consistent ...

2120
02:26:55,767 --> 02:27:01,332
consistent with the plans with the architectural- Renderings provided by the

2121
02:27:01,392 --> 02:27:03,942
applicant for board consideration. Yeah.

2122
02:27:04,032 --> 02:27:04,302
And

2123
02:27:05,652 --> 02:27:06,162
exactly.

2124
02:27:06,552 --> 02:27:11,502
I have a question. So are all these homes going to be two bedroom or less?

2125
02:27:12,702 --> 02:27:16,092
I believe, well, there's some duplexes.

2126
02:27:16,392 --> 02:27:18,882
Yeah, I mean, so there'll be two bedrooms.

2127
02:27:20,982 --> 02:27:22,092
What's likely to be

2128
02:27:23,442 --> 02:27:29,293
the situation is two bedrooms in each unit with a study or a

2129
02:27:29,322 --> 02:27:34,002
hobby room is pretty common. But yeah, it'll be the plan that we have is two

2130
02:27:34,062 --> 02:27:38,021
bedrooms, for each unit.

2131
02:27:38,113 --> 02:27:42,102
And are you going to vary the style of the buildings, or are they all going to be

2132
02:27:42,132 --> 02:27:43,332
the same?

2133
02:27:43,392 --> 02:27:45,702
We would like to vary the style of the buildings.

2134
02:27:45,777 --> 02:27:50,382
We shared four different styles, which had two story and single story options.

2135
02:27:50,952 --> 02:27:56,382
And the majority of these buildings really present inward,

2136
02:27:57,613 --> 02:28:03,582
on the development. The backyards face the roads, and they present

2137
02:28:03,642 --> 02:28:09,432
inward onto the private roads. And so, our intent is we

2138
02:28:09,447 --> 02:28:15,267
want to create plans that match the architectural elements that we have

2139
02:28:15,312 --> 02:28:21,192
provided as examples, because the final design for the plans haven't been completed

2140
02:28:21,252 --> 02:28:21,582
yet.

2141
02:28:24,552 --> 02:28:28,902
That's always something that kind of follows an approval. Right.

2142
02:28:32,592 --> 02:28:35,532
Which brings us to 11, which is where we started.

2143
02:28:35,652 --> 02:28:40,092
The phasing plan shall be as follows, referencing sheet 9B of the approved plan,

2144
02:28:40,992 --> 02:28:46,482
and then an open bullet. So this is certainly open for

2145
02:28:46,543 --> 02:28:52,242
interpretation. As we've discussed, we're not positive it's necessary as

2146
02:28:53,082 --> 02:28:58,842
the elderly design reduces municipal services in terms of school, et cetera.

2147
02:28:59,922 --> 02:29:02,802
So it's very common for boards of late.

2148
02:29:02,832 --> 02:29:08,472
We had a lot of discussions with abutting properties, and everybody wants it to be

2149
02:29:08,502 --> 02:29:13,512
phased to monitor the impact on municipal services.

2150
02:29:13,902 --> 02:29:19,363
But when that doesn't exist, the general consensus always is, when can we just stop

2151
02:29:19,376 --> 02:29:25,286
the construction phase? And so, often, we don't have anybody here this

2152
02:29:25,392 --> 02:29:31,332
evening at this point, but we've found with similar projects, the 55

2153
02:29:31,363 --> 02:29:36,102
and older projects, that especially ones that take access off of a highway like

2154
02:29:36,162 --> 02:29:41,442
this, where the neighborhood is more inclined to just want to see it get to a

2155
02:29:41,863 --> 02:29:47,712
finished construction window. And so we have the phasing plan still in the set,

2156
02:29:47,832 --> 02:29:52,992
but we think it's a worthy discussion and dialogue that we'd like to entertain with

2157
02:29:53,022 --> 02:29:53,412
the board.

2158
02:29:53,802 --> 02:29:56,382
Well, I answered question number one.

2159
02:29:57,852 --> 02:30:03,372
How many houses can a reasonable size crew build in a

2160
02:30:03,492 --> 02:30:08,007
year? Yes, if you bring in a big enough crew, you could build them all in one year.

2161
02:30:08,022 --> 02:30:11,172
And then I would worry about, are we doing the right protections of the

2162
02:30:11,202 --> 02:30:12,027
environment-

2163
02:30:12,732 --> 02:30:12,747
Oh

2164
02:30:12,747 --> 02:30:14,322
... and all the other stuff that goes on.

2165
02:30:14,352 --> 02:30:20,157
So somewhere along the way, building 25% a year, you got

2166
02:30:21,372 --> 02:30:24,613
50 homes, so you're talking a dozen homes a year.

2167
02:30:25,422 --> 02:30:29,352
Okay, you've got to put in the roadways and do all that other stuff at the same

2168
02:30:29,366 --> 02:30:31,122
time.

2169
02:30:31,212 --> 02:30:32,802
Yeah.

2170
02:30:32,863 --> 02:30:35,863
How much faster do you think you can go?

2171
02:30:36,057 --> 02:30:36,462
And

2172
02:30:37,692 --> 02:30:40,122
so that would be one thing I would like to understand,

2173
02:30:42,342 --> 02:30:46,376
doing it for your plan, understanding all the impacts and the monitoring and

2174
02:30:46,422 --> 02:30:48,942
controls that you're going to have in place there.

2175
02:30:49,002 --> 02:30:49,152
Yeah.

2176
02:30:49,347 --> 02:30:53,802
How much can you ramp that up? And then where's the break point on your monitoring

2177
02:30:53,832 --> 02:30:54,552
and controls?

2178
02:30:55,543 --> 02:30:59,113
Yeah. That's a fair question and I think a great question.

2179
02:31:00,282 --> 02:31:00,522
So,

2180
02:31:02,322 --> 02:31:06,522
the site is actually quite favorable from an erosion and sedimentation control

2181
02:31:06,582 --> 02:31:08,293
because it's a pretty flat site, right?

2182
02:31:08,352 --> 02:31:13,902
So we're going to have perimeter controls and controls at the entrances and exits.

2183
02:31:13,992 --> 02:31:19,422
And we do a weekly monitoring. That report is done for federal,

2184
02:31:20,022 --> 02:31:24,942
and state compliance. And if we're tied to an MS4 system, it also helps with local

2185
02:31:25,002 --> 02:31:26,442
compliance, which we're not.

2186
02:31:28,152 --> 02:31:33,672
And so it's not really an issue of compliance because

2187
02:31:33,942 --> 02:31:39,402
there's a very active monitoring process during a construction site.

2188
02:31:39,882 --> 02:31:43,182
I would say that concern would be more relevant on a more challenging site with

2189
02:31:43,722 --> 02:31:47,442
slopes, and can the contractor maintain that.

2190
02:31:47,472 --> 02:31:48,072
We have very

2191
02:31:49,602 --> 02:31:54,432
well-drained soils here. The stormwater in large parts can infiltrate.

2192
02:31:55,662 --> 02:31:58,902
Once the improvements are done, the first thing that happens is the stormwater

2193
02:31:58,992 --> 02:32:01,992
components. Those get stabilized.

2194
02:32:02,022 --> 02:32:04,392
And so everything would be done in the appropriate fashion.

2195
02:32:04,452 --> 02:32:08,442
In fact, we talk about this with the state permit through the Alteration of Terrain

2196
02:32:08,472 --> 02:32:10,543
Bureau. They'll actually take a look at this.

2197
02:32:10,602 --> 02:32:16,543
And generally speaking, they try to reduce the amount of area that's open unless

2198
02:32:16,602 --> 02:32:21,252
you do weekly reporting and they get copies of the weekly reports.

2199
02:32:22,212 --> 02:32:26,922
We have projects where they will respond to our weekly reports and say, "Hey, can

2200
02:32:26,982 --> 02:32:31,872
they just take a look at this area and maybe try to stabilize that a little bit

2201
02:32:31,902 --> 02:32:34,422
more?" It's quite active. It's a

2202
02:32:36,192 --> 02:32:38,892
little more involved than it always has been.

2203
02:32:41,113 --> 02:32:41,382
But

2204
02:32:43,872 --> 02:32:47,592
your question about how fast could this be done, I bet you it's a three or

2205
02:32:47,622 --> 02:32:52,572
four-year project from a marketing, constructing the homes, and selling it.

2206
02:32:53,172 --> 02:32:58,302
The reality is, is you would end out with more of the infrastructure going in in

2207
02:32:58,363 --> 02:33:04,092
that initial phase. So the roads would likely go in faster, and the infrastructure,

2208
02:33:04,272 --> 02:33:09,492
meaning the water, the septics would go in with the units probably, but

2209
02:33:09,552 --> 02:33:15,132
the stormwater would be in place. And so the large

2210
02:33:15,192 --> 02:33:19,002
portion of the construction project might be done within the first two years.

2211
02:33:19,467 --> 02:33:23,652
And then you would see the home sales and the lot development happen over probably

2212
02:33:23,682 --> 02:33:26,382
three to four years, if there was no restrictions.

2213
02:33:26,922 --> 02:33:32,382
If there's restrictions, then it's a more controlled build, which

2214
02:33:33,762 --> 02:33:39,702
doesn't necessarily benefit anybody, in my opinion, in this setting when

2215
02:33:39,762 --> 02:33:40,887
we have a 55 and older-

2216
02:33:40,932 --> 02:33:46,662
So what's on sheet 9B, what did you

2217
02:33:46,842 --> 02:33:49,692
propose back then that you wanted to go faster then?

2218
02:33:49,902 --> 02:33:52,271
I don't have the sheet in front of me, so I don't know.

2219
02:33:52,332 --> 02:33:52,857
Yeah, I'll try to-

2220
02:33:52,932 --> 02:33:57,492
How different is it from your one to two years to get the infrastructure in place,

2221
02:33:58,062 --> 02:34:00,522
and then three to four years to build out the homes?

2222
02:34:08,472 --> 02:34:09,613
I hope you can read that.

2223
02:34:11,442 --> 02:34:14,712
I'm going to do my best. We have the benefit of looking at it this afternoon

2224
02:34:14,772 --> 02:34:20,262
together. So the first phase that we were proposing, with the original plan was,

2225
02:34:22,062 --> 02:34:27,642
this first segment of road here, and we basically build the turnaround at the

2226
02:34:27,672 --> 02:34:28,363
intersection.

2227
02:34:29,802 --> 02:34:35,052
And I believe this is 12 homes in phase one. I can see your cursor.

2228
02:34:35,113 --> 02:34:36,043
Yeah, I can't either.

2229
02:34:36,402 --> 02:34:36,912
Can you see it there?

2230
02:34:37,332 --> 02:34:37,662
Okay.

2231
02:34:37,752 --> 02:34:38,502
It's so flush.

2232
02:34:38,863 --> 02:34:39,252
All right.

2233
02:34:39,642 --> 02:34:43,512
Ah, okay. Yeah. Sorry. And so this is phase one here.

2234
02:34:43,602 --> 02:34:48,072
So you build this entrance, and then you build the turnaround here.

2235
02:34:48,613 --> 02:34:48,702
You

2236
02:34:50,022 --> 02:34:54,432
build all the infrastructure along this section with the stormwater up here at the

2237
02:34:54,462 --> 02:34:58,392
entrance. And then you'd have 12 homes here. That was phase one.

2238
02:34:58,842 --> 02:35:00,372
Okay, and how long does phase one take?

2239
02:35:02,232 --> 02:35:05,172
That's, it'd be done within a year, I would say.

2240
02:35:05,232 --> 02:35:08,682
So you'd be putting the roads, all the stormwater management, everything, and build

2241
02:35:08,712 --> 02:35:09,882
12 homes in a year?

2242
02:35:10,242 --> 02:35:15,312
Oh, without a problem. We just had a project in Nashville, they did 36 in two

2243
02:35:15,372 --> 02:35:15,762
years.

2244
02:35:18,522 --> 02:35:23,293
This site is conducive to construction happening faster.

2245
02:35:24,132 --> 02:35:28,182
The soils are very nice. The grading is very minimal.

2246
02:35:29,682 --> 02:35:35,502
And it's kind of an open, in a large part, kind of an open area.

2247
02:35:36,372 --> 02:35:38,322
So this site could be built faster.

2248
02:35:39,402 --> 02:35:43,722
Well, so why wouldn't it make sense to,

2249
02:35:46,062 --> 02:35:51,642
I guess from a marketing perspective, it seems to me that you would want to

2250
02:35:51,732 --> 02:35:56,622
limit the construction traffic through a developed and sold part of the

2251
02:35:56,652 --> 02:35:57,732
neighborhood.

2252
02:35:57,822 --> 02:35:59,082
Right. And so that would-

2253
02:35:59,352 --> 02:36:00,282
So,

2254
02:36:01,872 --> 02:36:07,422
looking at this plan, it would make sense for me to go in and

2255
02:36:07,482 --> 02:36:09,613
build all of that road.

2256
02:36:10,182 --> 02:36:12,642
Correct. That's what we're asking them to do.

2257
02:36:13,212 --> 02:36:17,712
And build up to,

2258
02:36:19,692 --> 02:36:23,922
there's 12 and 17, up to 30 of the units in the first two years.

2259
02:36:27,162 --> 02:36:30,432
Without restriction on whether it's in one year or in...

2260
02:36:30,762 --> 02:36:32,997
But it's going to take you two years to build 30 units.

2261
02:36:33,072 --> 02:36:34,962
Yeah, so that would be

2262
02:36:36,822 --> 02:36:37,662
very practical.

2263
02:36:38,142 --> 02:36:42,057
And then, so build all of the roads.

2264
02:36:42,162 --> 02:36:46,872
So that would be where your substantial completion or your substantial improvements

2265
02:36:46,902 --> 02:36:50,082
would come in, would be construction of the stormwater

2266
02:36:52,212 --> 02:36:55,662
infrastructure and roads base course.

2267
02:36:57,043 --> 02:36:59,622
And wetlands crossing.

2268
02:36:59,772 --> 02:36:59,922
Yeah.

2269
02:36:59,952 --> 02:37:01,918
And buffer and all that other stuff.

2270
02:37:01,918 --> 02:37:05,802
Because you're going to want to do that upfront too, because your permit's only

2271
02:37:05,832 --> 02:37:06,477
good for so long.

2272
02:37:06,477 --> 02:37:08,232
Maybe five years. Yeah.

2273
02:37:08,293 --> 02:37:14,052
I mean, the goal from an economic standpoint, the

2274
02:37:14,142 --> 02:37:16,572
best way to build it is one contract.

2275
02:37:17,502 --> 02:37:20,652
You get them in there, and they build the infrastructure.

2276
02:37:20,982 --> 02:37:23,922
They're on-site, it's efficient, things are stabilized.

2277
02:37:25,422 --> 02:37:29,082
And then you build the homes as the market allows.

2278
02:37:29,322 --> 02:37:30,327
30 within two years-

2279
02:37:30,402 --> 02:37:30,522
Right

2280
02:37:30,582 --> 02:37:31,932
... would be very fair.

2281
02:37:32,562 --> 02:37:32,712
Yeah.

2282
02:37:32,982 --> 02:37:33,762
Very fair.

2283
02:37:33,882 --> 02:37:39,852
So, you build the large spine road, and then maybe the other

2284
02:37:40,062 --> 02:37:42,372
road closer to 122 is-

2285
02:37:43,752 --> 02:37:44,157
Phase two

2286
02:37:44,172 --> 02:37:45,043
... another phase.

2287
02:37:45,132 --> 02:37:50,262
Yeah. I would say this through road basically would

2288
02:37:50,352 --> 02:37:55,752
be phase one, with the units along that phase,

2289
02:37:56,607 --> 02:37:58,962
that's probably the 30, let's say.

2290
02:37:59,502 --> 02:38:02,293
And then phase two would be this

2291
02:38:03,882 --> 02:38:05,172
road closest to-

2292
02:38:05,412 --> 02:38:05,592
Right

2293
02:38:05,772 --> 02:38:06,852
... the highway here.

2294
02:38:06,942 --> 02:38:07,062
Right.

2295
02:38:07,452 --> 02:38:09,822
That makes complete sense.

2296
02:38:11,922 --> 02:38:12,597
What do you think, John?

2297
02:38:12,822 --> 02:38:14,532
Yeah. Great.

2298
02:38:15,071 --> 02:38:17,262
It would seem to make sense, though.

2299
02:38:18,043 --> 02:38:22,302
You're right. I mean, it would be far less economical to bring guys in to do little

2300
02:38:22,392 --> 02:38:23,442
stretches of it.

2301
02:38:23,532 --> 02:38:25,992
Well, and that would also allow you to build the units.

2302
02:38:26,067 --> 02:38:29,952
So you start at the stream and work your way south.

2303
02:38:30,282 --> 02:38:30,492
Mm-hmm.

2304
02:38:30,942 --> 02:38:34,332
And that way, all the construction, I mean, you've got to drive through the

2305
02:38:34,363 --> 02:38:38,322
construction guys to get to your unit, but, I mean, it seems like you'd want to

2306
02:38:38,352 --> 02:38:39,702
build your way out of the place.

2307
02:38:39,762 --> 02:38:40,392
You go for it.

2308
02:38:40,452 --> 02:38:41,592
Yep.

2309
02:38:41,742 --> 02:38:47,367
I think that makes a lot of sense. That would be, I think, a much better plan.

2310
02:38:47,442 --> 02:38:52,062
And I think that leads into the active and substantial development would be-

2311
02:38:52,962 --> 02:38:53,142
Yeah

2312
02:38:53,832 --> 02:38:58,302
... seem reasonable that it's stormwater infrastructure, the main road,

2313
02:38:59,262 --> 02:39:04,182
the longer loop, and then the wetlands crossing, which is a part of that.

2314
02:39:04,543 --> 02:39:05,082
Yeah.

2315
02:39:05,172 --> 02:39:05,381
Okay.

2316
02:39:05,442 --> 02:39:05,772
Yeah.

2317
02:39:05,802 --> 02:39:10,407
So something like that, is that something that you guys are looking for that phase?

2318
02:39:10,543 --> 02:39:12,552
Here's what we would like to do.

2319
02:39:13,122 --> 02:39:14,863
No, I think we're agreeing to that right now.

2320
02:39:15,012 --> 02:39:17,502
No, you went the direction we were hoping.

2321
02:39:18,282 --> 02:39:19,272
But, so-

2322
02:39:19,872 --> 02:39:20,082
Okay

2323
02:39:20,502 --> 02:39:25,722
... so the first phase, which is one year, two years, 18 months,

2324
02:39:26,412 --> 02:39:27,252
two and a half?

2325
02:39:27,312 --> 02:39:27,327
Two years.

2326
02:39:27,327 --> 02:39:28,662
The next two years.

2327
02:39:28,722 --> 02:39:28,812
Okay.

2328
02:39:28,842 --> 02:39:34,272
The first phase is the two years, and we can build up to 30 units in phase one.

2329
02:39:34,902 --> 02:39:38,922
And then phase two would be the remainder of the units.

2330
02:39:39,312 --> 02:39:39,462
Yeah.

2331
02:39:39,702 --> 02:39:41,291
Over another two-year period.

2332
02:39:41,832 --> 02:39:42,012
Yeah.

2333
02:39:43,032 --> 02:39:44,712
Yeah, it's going to take at least that long.

2334
02:39:44,863 --> 02:39:50,607
Yeah. Okay. But meanwhile, the stormwater, the environmental stuff, all gets

2335
02:39:50,622 --> 02:39:52,002
done in phase one.

2336
02:39:52,092 --> 02:39:55,902
Yeah. And that would be listed as the conditions of active and substantial

2337
02:39:55,932 --> 02:39:56,892
development or building.

2338
02:39:57,282 --> 02:40:00,372
Right. By allowing the through road to be built, you

2339
02:40:01,962 --> 02:40:04,722
would be required to build all of the stormwater in phase one.

2340
02:40:05,187 --> 02:40:09,252
And so that's a very solid plan.

2341
02:40:09,642 --> 02:40:13,932
And it sets the table for development because we're not out of order at that point.

2342
02:40:13,992 --> 02:40:14,562
We have-

2343
02:40:15,432 --> 02:40:17,022
And the public improvements,

2344
02:40:18,702 --> 02:40:22,482
like the community garden and all that, when does that fit in?

2345
02:40:22,543 --> 02:40:23,562
Is that in phase two?

2346
02:40:23,952 --> 02:40:28,543
So I think normally the public improvements are always part of that second phase.

2347
02:40:29,472 --> 02:40:35,426
So you'd have the clubhouse, the community garden, and

2348
02:40:35,502 --> 02:40:41,397
the rehab of the existing buildings, the community garden building and the other

2349
02:40:41,442 --> 02:40:45,012
one. Those would be a phase two component, typically.

2350
02:40:45,192 --> 02:40:48,252
And includes the walking trails and everything?

2351
02:40:48,312 --> 02:40:48,462
Pardon?

2352
02:40:48,552 --> 02:40:51,282
As well? Phase two would include the walking trails?

2353
02:40:51,432 --> 02:40:53,322
Yeah, all the trails would be... I

2354
02:40:56,622 --> 02:41:02,502
do agree that with the 30 units in phase one, I think the clubhouse, that

2355
02:41:02,562 --> 02:41:06,012
should be allowed to be constructed in phase one, so that those...

2356
02:41:06,222 --> 02:41:09,012
It's a complete remodel, right?

2357
02:41:09,102 --> 02:41:12,222
Well, and it's also an amenity for those homes.

2358
02:41:12,297 --> 02:41:12,492
Right. Yeah.

2359
02:41:12,552 --> 02:41:14,082
So that was part of marketing, too.

2360
02:41:14,832 --> 02:41:20,142
So you would put in that other road, the

2361
02:41:21,672 --> 02:41:26,622
third one, the one in the middle that connects to, as part of phase one then, too?

2362
02:41:27,822 --> 02:41:31,182
I think we're talking from, where's our arrow?

2363
02:41:31,242 --> 02:41:32,367
So the northern most-

2364
02:41:32,442 --> 02:41:33,492
Where's the clubhouse at?

2365
02:41:33,522 --> 02:41:34,872
The clubhouse is right here.

2366
02:41:35,037 --> 02:41:36,492
So the existing farmhouse.

2367
02:41:37,032 --> 02:41:37,242
Yeah.

2368
02:41:37,377 --> 02:41:43,122
So you do the big spine road, and you do that road to connect it.

2369
02:41:43,212 --> 02:41:46,482
So if you're going to do the clubhouse, people have to be able to get to it.

2370
02:41:47,442 --> 02:41:49,002
So there's got to be some way to get to it.

2371
02:41:49,032 --> 02:41:54,852
If the other road is part of phase two, how will the existing residents get there?

2372
02:41:54,942 --> 02:41:55,827
That could probably be graveled temporarily.

2373
02:41:55,842 --> 02:41:58,482
And you don't want to route them through-

2374
02:41:58,543 --> 02:42:02,937
There's options, because I was saying that could probably be graveled temporarily

2375
02:42:03,102 --> 02:42:04,077
or something, because-

2376
02:42:04,257 --> 02:42:05,457
Yeah. I'm just looking at-

2377
02:42:06,732 --> 02:42:07,317
I mean, it's our savior

2378
02:42:07,317 --> 02:42:12,552
... the safety of the residents going through that, all active construction's going

2379
02:42:12,567 --> 02:42:12,642
on.

2380
02:42:12,882 --> 02:42:18,702
Agreed, and I think the reason we, you put in those more delicate

2381
02:42:18,732 --> 02:42:22,887
amenities like the garden, et cetera, at the end is you don't want to hit them with

2382
02:42:22,932 --> 02:42:23,592
a bulldozer.

2383
02:42:24,492 --> 02:42:25,363
Yeah. Okay.

2384
02:42:28,032 --> 02:42:28,872
That sound reasonable?

2385
02:42:28,932 --> 02:42:29,952
Yeah.

2386
02:42:29,982 --> 02:42:30,282
Okay.

2387
02:42:30,312 --> 02:42:32,397
What are we talking about for substantial completion?

2388
02:42:33,267 --> 02:42:33,552
Well-

2389
02:42:34,182 --> 02:42:34,543
Oh, so-

2390
02:42:37,332 --> 02:42:40,422
Substantial construction ... substantial construction, not completion.

2391
02:42:40,543 --> 02:42:41,863
So we have two things. We have

2392
02:42:43,332 --> 02:42:45,402
active and substantial development.

2393
02:42:45,418 --> 02:42:46,363
Active construction.

2394
02:42:46,422 --> 02:42:51,912
And substantial completion. So active and substantial development or building, and

2395
02:42:52,032 --> 02:42:53,952
substantial completion improvements.

2396
02:42:55,512 --> 02:42:56,322
Two different things.

2397
02:42:56,682 --> 02:43:02,172
Yeah. I mean, substantial completion would be the roadway to...

2398
02:43:04,062 --> 02:43:08,412
I mean, typically, what we've done in smaller developments is say active and

2399
02:43:08,472 --> 02:43:11,712
substantial development is road and stormwater.

2400
02:43:11,863 --> 02:43:12,012
Right.

2401
02:43:12,282 --> 02:43:15,282
And then substantial completion is-

2402
02:43:15,613 --> 02:43:16,992
Completion

2403
02:43:17,022 --> 02:43:20,113
... foundation in the ground or something like that.

2404
02:43:21,012 --> 02:43:25,152
Oh, okay. I mean, or, uh-

2405
02:43:29,772 --> 02:43:32,037
25% of the house is done or something.

2406
02:43:32,113 --> 02:43:34,543
Yeah. If he has phase... Well,

2407
02:43:39,372 --> 02:43:45,252
completion of the public and shared facilities would be an important part

2408
02:43:45,342 --> 02:43:46,032
of that.

2409
02:43:47,682 --> 02:43:48,252
You know what I mean?

2410
02:43:48,267 --> 02:43:48,267
Yeah.

2411
02:43:48,282 --> 02:43:52,212
It's like public amenities and also the community amenities.

2412
02:43:52,272 --> 02:43:52,602
Yep.

2413
02:43:53,202 --> 02:43:58,363
So the trails, the community garden, the

2414
02:43:58,422 --> 02:44:03,192
clubhouse, the community building, whatever that might be,

2415
02:44:05,952 --> 02:44:06,972
as a-

2416
02:44:10,410 --> 02:44:16,350
And it's not complete unless they build that stuff, because you're representing

2417
02:44:16,410 --> 02:44:18,300
to your buyers that it's going to be there.

2418
02:44:18,840 --> 02:44:18,989
Right.

2419
02:44:19,110 --> 02:44:19,651
So-

2420
02:44:21,000 --> 02:44:23,401
Your density bonus is based off of that, too.

2421
02:44:23,520 --> 02:44:27,901
And the bonus is based off of that. That's... Yeah, that's an excellent point.

2422
02:44:30,090 --> 02:44:32,955
So anything that you are taking,

2423
02:44:35,401 --> 02:44:41,026
substantial completion would include any improvements that are part of the density

2424
02:44:41,040 --> 02:44:41,790
calculations,

2425
02:44:45,840 --> 02:44:48,570
plus any community

2426
02:44:49,830 --> 02:44:50,610
facilities.

2427
02:44:52,140 --> 02:44:54,780
And I honestly don't care when they build the houses.

2428
02:44:56,310 --> 02:45:01,260
Yeah. I mean, the main thing to lock in, that's the seven-year, I mean, the

2429
02:45:01,410 --> 02:45:05,370
ordinance change. You got to have the stormwater, the roads-

2430
02:45:05,461 --> 02:45:05,610
Right

2431
02:45:05,850 --> 02:45:11,190
... and basically anything like that. That satisfies investing.

2432
02:45:11,700 --> 02:45:12,930
That satisfies investing.

2433
02:45:13,410 --> 02:45:14,131
Yeah. Right. So-

2434
02:45:15,690 --> 02:45:19,230
And then the substantial completion could be all the amenities they're listing.

2435
02:45:19,711 --> 02:45:19,950
Right.

2436
02:45:20,520 --> 02:45:23,655
In the dense ones for that. I think we're-

2437
02:45:23,700 --> 02:45:24,360
Did you get that?

2438
02:45:24,480 --> 02:45:24,690
Yeah.

2439
02:45:24,750 --> 02:45:26,550
Yes, I think we're in agreement.

2440
02:45:29,100 --> 02:45:30,540
Did you get that? And then we're in-

2441
02:45:35,820 --> 02:45:36,720
Come on, Gloria.

2442
02:45:37,500 --> 02:45:39,256
Active construction-

2443
02:45:39,330 --> 02:45:39,735
Yes

2444
02:45:40,500 --> 02:45:43,590
... is completion of the roads.

2445
02:45:44,401 --> 02:45:45,075
Like all, all-

2446
02:45:45,211 --> 02:45:48,329
Well, the main road and the stormwater.

2447
02:45:48,631 --> 02:45:48,870
Okay.

2448
02:45:50,010 --> 02:45:50,280
Right?

2449
02:45:50,370 --> 02:45:52,350
And the wetlands.

2450
02:45:52,410 --> 02:45:53,430
And the wetlands, correct.

2451
02:45:53,580 --> 02:45:55,800
So it's a phase one road, which is the through road.

2452
02:45:55,905 --> 02:45:59,730
Phase one road with the infrastructure in place.

2453
02:45:59,790 --> 02:46:00,660
With the infrastructure.

2454
02:46:00,675 --> 02:46:01,800
Phase one road.

2455
02:46:06,151 --> 02:46:06,510
Yeah.

2456
02:46:08,220 --> 02:46:08,235
With infrastructure.

2457
02:46:08,250 --> 02:46:12,540
And then substantial completion is completion of

2458
02:46:13,830 --> 02:46:18,660
all of the roadways, completion of all of the community facilities,

2459
02:46:21,211 --> 02:46:26,685
and essentially anything that contributes to the density calculations we're

2460
02:46:26,730 --> 02:46:28,470
going to mention. Is that fair?

2461
02:46:28,830 --> 02:46:29,131
Yeah.

2462
02:46:29,670 --> 02:46:32,685
Here's the part with the phasing plan, I think I missed it.

2463
02:46:32,700 --> 02:46:33,240
Two phases.

2464
02:46:33,300 --> 02:46:37,770
Phasing plan is two phases. The first phase is the main road,

2465
02:46:39,901 --> 02:46:43,170
along with up to 30 units over a two-year period.

2466
02:46:43,860 --> 02:46:45,870
Along with the stormwater management-

2467
02:46:45,930 --> 02:46:47,010
Along with stormwater management-

2468
02:46:47,070 --> 02:46:47,715
Wetlands

2469
02:46:47,730 --> 02:46:48,555
... and the wetland crossing.

2470
02:46:49,725 --> 02:46:49,725
Yeah.

2471
02:46:49,800 --> 02:46:52,230
And may include the clubhouse.

2472
02:46:52,260 --> 02:46:55,545
And may include the clubhouse. Absolutely.

2473
02:46:57,750 --> 02:47:00,015
And then

2474
02:47:02,401 --> 02:47:07,740
the second phase is the rest of the other development, yeah.

2475
02:47:07,785 --> 02:47:09,330
Yeah. Again.

2476
02:47:17,670 --> 02:47:20,745
I think that's just the three line items. Yeah, conditions.

2477
02:47:20,820 --> 02:47:22,140
We were fine with everything else.

2478
02:47:26,220 --> 02:47:28,740
So there is

2479
02:47:30,540 --> 02:47:32,131
the impact fee.

2480
02:47:32,280 --> 02:47:32,760
Yeah.

2481
02:47:32,940 --> 02:47:34,830
That'll be settled at the time of them.

2482
02:47:36,000 --> 02:47:39,030
The question, I did have one question with the impact fee.

2483
02:47:39,540 --> 02:47:43,350
Is that based on current or is it based on

2484
02:47:43,590 --> 02:47:48,180
2019 or 20-

2485
02:47:48,225 --> 02:47:50,670
They didn't have them in 2019.

2486
02:47:50,910 --> 02:47:56,881
I believe at the time of approval. So it would be

2487
02:47:56,910 --> 02:48:00,060
the current, which I believe is 2023, actually.

2488
02:48:01,410 --> 02:48:02,310
I can double-check that.

2489
02:48:03,060 --> 02:48:06,060
Yeah. We just want it to be at the appropriate time.

2490
02:48:06,330 --> 02:48:06,450
Yeah.

2491
02:48:06,510 --> 02:48:10,350
We're not opposed to the condition, we just think it needs to apply to the

2492
02:48:10,410 --> 02:48:12,060
appropriate date, that's all.

2493
02:48:15,060 --> 02:48:15,930
But it does...

2494
02:48:17,730 --> 02:48:19,530
I mean, are we collecting a

2495
02:48:22,560 --> 02:48:25,651
typical residential with a school impact?

2496
02:48:26,820 --> 02:48:29,910
I think that's all part of the residential one, isn't it?

2497
02:48:29,970 --> 02:48:31,830
I mean, it's strict out for industrial, but-

2498
02:48:33,000 --> 02:48:33,390
Ready?

2499
02:48:33,840 --> 02:48:35,805
Are we collecting a school impact?

2500
02:48:35,881 --> 02:48:41,461
That is part of it. You, as the board, do have the ability to get rid

2501
02:48:41,490 --> 02:48:43,620
of any of the categories if you wish.

2502
02:48:44,940 --> 02:48:48,540
So for example, like there's one for town roads,

2503
02:48:49,740 --> 02:48:54,240
and we will often get rid of the town roads portion if it's on a state road.

2504
02:48:56,280 --> 02:48:56,910
Oh, right. Right.

2505
02:48:59,250 --> 02:49:00,105
So what else is there?

2506
02:49:00,105 --> 02:49:00,540
It's up to you guys.

2507
02:49:00,690 --> 02:49:05,100
I mean, that's it, there's a decode in place, so there's no-

2508
02:49:05,220 --> 02:49:09,975
Yeah. It's police, fire, schools, town roads,

2509
02:49:10,651 --> 02:49:11,970
recreation, I believe.

2510
02:49:13,980 --> 02:49:16,620
And possibly one more. Let me double-check.

2511
02:49:20,100 --> 02:49:20,145
It is-

2512
02:49:20,580 --> 02:49:22,770
Did we... What did we do on the bottom?

2513
02:49:24,690 --> 02:49:27,151
On the, with that two-block subdivision?

2514
02:49:28,320 --> 02:49:32,475
I know on the, when we approved the guest house.

2515
02:49:33,660 --> 02:49:37,080
That was a, I believe, a residential rate, wasn't it?

2516
02:49:38,970 --> 02:49:39,360
Or maybe a-

2517
02:49:39,405 --> 02:49:41,115
Didn't we do a hold on schools?

2518
02:49:41,160 --> 02:49:42,750
I don't know. I don't recall.

2519
02:49:43,830 --> 02:49:48,510
I mean, I guess, well, I just want to be consistent, that's all.

2520
02:49:52,050 --> 02:49:55,711
I mean, I'm reluctant to waive a

2521
02:49:57,720 --> 02:49:59,580
traffic impact

2522
02:50:00,870 --> 02:50:06,631
fee because the reason is that this would have an impact on the network, not

2523
02:50:06,690 --> 02:50:09,240
necessarily... Albeit minimal.

2524
02:50:10,620 --> 02:50:12,090
I don't know how this-

2525
02:50:12,720 --> 02:50:18,195
Well, I think that the traffic aspect of the impact fee, I mean, it's rarely for

2526
02:50:18,240 --> 02:50:19,950
the just the street in front of your house.

2527
02:50:20,100 --> 02:50:20,370
Right.

2528
02:50:20,640 --> 02:50:22,020
It's for the entire system.

2529
02:50:22,200 --> 02:50:22,530
Right.

2530
02:50:22,815 --> 02:50:27,270
So, this and this particular one, this would be no different than any other house.

2531
02:50:27,390 --> 02:50:32,610
I mean, we wouldn't waive the traffic, the roads portion of the impact fee for any

2532
02:50:32,670 --> 02:50:35,430
other house that's built along that road, so.

2533
02:50:35,970 --> 02:50:40,500
Right. We would just want the applicable fees based on the time period, and then we

2534
02:50:40,530 --> 02:50:45,720
would ask, given the type of project being 55 and older, that the board consider

2535
02:50:45,780 --> 02:50:49,800
waiving the school impact fees because we will have no impact.

2536
02:50:49,830 --> 02:50:53,160
Well, that may or may not be true.

2537
02:50:54,360 --> 02:50:57,060
Yeah. So I'm guessing maybe we can-

2538
02:50:57,151 --> 02:51:01,590
Well, here's the thing too, with a 55 plus housing development, unless you make it

2539
02:51:01,651 --> 02:51:07,545
more strict, only 80% of those units have to have somebody that's 80, or 55 or

2540
02:51:07,590 --> 02:51:07,980
older.

2541
02:51:08,070 --> 02:51:08,339
Right.

2542
02:51:08,461 --> 02:51:12,870
So theoretically, 20% of those units could have under 18-

2543
02:51:13,200 --> 02:51:14,190
What did your fiscal

2544
02:51:15,390 --> 02:51:16,530
impact report say?

2545
02:51:17,100 --> 02:51:20,790
Well, the fiscal impact was done based on the market rate.

2546
02:51:21,240 --> 02:51:22,290
We didn't have it redone.

2547
02:51:22,350 --> 02:51:26,565
I mean, to the degree that you can calculate that and have someone with some

2548
02:51:26,610 --> 02:51:31,651
credentials tell us what the expected school-age population might be then,

2549
02:51:32,160 --> 02:51:37,980
versus what the market rate would be, I think that would maybe call for a

2550
02:51:38,040 --> 02:51:40,381
reduction in the school fee.

2551
02:51:40,920 --> 02:51:41,970
Math, excuse me.

2552
02:51:42,840 --> 02:51:48,570
But I'm not... I can't say with any confidence that we should

2553
02:51:48,600 --> 02:51:49,110
waive it.

2554
02:51:49,950 --> 02:51:50,040
No.

2555
02:51:50,160 --> 02:51:54,450
Well, the other thing, too is, I mean, there is no waiver for property taxes,

2556
02:51:54,631 --> 02:51:57,600
basically. So, I mean, it doesn't matter how old we are.

2557
02:51:57,870 --> 02:51:58,125
Right.

2558
02:51:58,140 --> 02:52:00,750
You're still paying a school portion of the property taxes.

2559
02:52:00,795 --> 02:52:00,795
Right.

2560
02:52:00,810 --> 02:52:03,211
So, I think the impact fee should be no different than-

2561
02:52:03,870 --> 02:52:05,760
Oh, I thought of the other way, that-

2562
02:52:05,850 --> 02:52:06,060
Yeah.

2563
02:52:06,840 --> 02:52:09,330
... so they didn't double tax for no benefit.

2564
02:52:09,420 --> 02:52:13,830
Oh, don't get me started on double taxation or anything.

2565
02:52:13,920 --> 02:52:19,785
But yeah, this is probably considering it's like half a million dollars a year-

2566
02:52:19,800 --> 02:52:24,225
Some way of quantifying what the difference might be between...

2567
02:52:24,300 --> 02:52:30,165
Because I don't think you can say that there are

2568
02:52:30,211 --> 02:52:31,860
going to be zero kids.

2569
02:52:35,820 --> 02:52:37,410
It might be three, it might be

2570
02:52:39,690 --> 02:52:40,170
five.

2571
02:52:42,870 --> 02:52:47,131
That number is something crazy right now, like .9 per household.

2572
02:52:47,190 --> 02:52:47,506
No, no.

2573
02:52:47,520 --> 02:52:48,375
Anyways, I don't know.

2574
02:52:49,200 --> 02:52:51,300
I think the number they use is .8.

2575
02:52:51,450 --> 02:52:51,690
Right.

2576
02:52:52,170 --> 02:52:54,105
For a single family, it's only-

2577
02:52:54,180 --> 02:52:56,985
Yeah. It's actually more in the .7 range right now.

2578
02:52:56,985 --> 02:52:59,461
It's actually more in the .5 range.

2579
02:52:59,535 --> 02:53:01,785
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like rounding up.

2580
02:53:02,610 --> 02:53:02,910
Right?

2581
02:53:04,080 --> 02:53:07,740
So the fiscal impact report

2582
02:53:11,310 --> 02:53:13,200
estimated a total

2583
02:53:15,414 --> 02:53:21,294
Of 12 village kids out of the development, and that's when

2584
02:53:21,324 --> 02:53:23,034
it was market rate.

2585
02:53:23,244 --> 02:53:23,859
That was when it was-

2586
02:53:23,859 --> 02:53:25,419
Which is 60% market rate

2587
02:53:25,435 --> 02:53:26,319
... 60% market rate.

2588
02:53:26,334 --> 02:53:31,015
Is very conservative, and is unlikely to be realized is the rest of that sentence.

2589
02:53:31,044 --> 02:53:36,023
Yeah. Well, that's what planners always say. I can tell you that.

2590
02:53:38,754 --> 02:53:44,634
What are you

2591
02:53:45,234 --> 02:53:45,580
guys saying?

2592
02:53:48,084 --> 02:53:51,265
I guess just keep it at the regular residential rate, personally.

2593
02:53:51,414 --> 02:53:56,904
But otherwise, we'd be pressured to cancel it for every

2594
02:53:57,174 --> 02:53:59,049
55 and older development in town,

2595
02:54:00,624 --> 02:54:01,554
which we haven't-

2596
02:54:02,574 --> 02:54:03,189
Which we haven't.

2597
02:54:03,189 --> 02:54:03,189
Which we haven't.

2598
02:54:03,189 --> 02:54:04,435
We haven't had that in a while.

2599
02:54:04,524 --> 02:54:04,719
Yeah.

2600
02:54:05,694 --> 02:54:09,624
I don't know if we've had a new one since the impact fee went into effect.

2601
02:54:09,714 --> 02:54:10,884
No.

2602
02:54:10,944 --> 02:54:13,134
That would be at grand clams on a chicken table.

2603
02:54:13,299 --> 02:54:16,614
Grandchildren, that would be to the schools.

2604
02:54:17,364 --> 02:54:20,244
But I would think the rec department would increase greatly,

2605
02:54:21,564 --> 02:54:23,649
if it's five and older, depending on all kinds of things.

2606
02:54:23,694 --> 02:54:24,144
Well, I-

2607
02:54:25,254 --> 02:54:27,024
Yeah, I think that part of it is certain.

2608
02:54:27,068 --> 02:54:31,464
And there will be a disproportionate effect on EMS services probably.

2609
02:54:31,614 --> 02:54:31,765
Yeah.

2610
02:54:31,824 --> 02:54:35,484
Things like that. So, you might have fewer kids at the schools, but you're going to

2611
02:54:36,444 --> 02:54:38,544
probably have additional impact in other areas.

2612
02:54:39,174 --> 02:54:39,564
Yeah.

2613
02:54:39,654 --> 02:54:41,515
So it's a wash.

2614
02:54:41,544 --> 02:54:43,074
I don't know what to tell you. I'm-

2615
02:54:43,464 --> 02:54:45,534
We're just asking for the board's consideration.

2616
02:54:45,624 --> 02:54:50,064
I think the key is we want to make sure that they are applied at the rate at which

2617
02:54:50,424 --> 02:54:52,194
timely appropriate fee is.

2618
02:54:52,854 --> 02:54:55,494
It is assessed at the time of planning board approval.

2619
02:54:58,044 --> 02:54:58,060
Okay.

2620
02:54:58,104 --> 02:54:59,455
So that'll be the current rate.

2621
02:55:06,234 --> 02:55:08,784
Better approve it fast because I think they're going up soon, aren't they?

2622
02:55:10,614 --> 02:55:12,894
Isn't that everything in front of the select board?

2623
02:55:13,435 --> 02:55:16,449
All right. So did you-- Any other issues?

2624
02:55:16,794 --> 02:55:16,914
No.

2625
02:55:19,134 --> 02:55:21,219
All right. So we had, just to recap,

2626
02:55:24,864 --> 02:55:28,164
in the precedent, what number? It was four?

2627
02:55:32,994 --> 02:55:35,724
It was 12 under precedent, which was a development agreement.

2628
02:55:35,994 --> 02:55:36,310
Oh, okay.

2629
02:55:36,324 --> 02:55:41,904
Which we, I think, agreed that this letter would suffice. Is that fair?

2630
02:55:45,804 --> 02:55:49,554
I think so, but it's pretty thorough, so.

2631
02:55:49,765 --> 02:55:50,064
Yeah.

2632
02:55:50,694 --> 02:55:52,164
All right. So we're going to strike 12,

2633
02:55:53,935 --> 02:55:54,594
and then...

2634
02:55:57,384 --> 02:56:02,574
And then under subsequent, it was number nine, which was the-

2635
02:56:02,754 --> 02:56:03,114
Right.

2636
02:56:04,314 --> 02:56:05,754
All work. All right, so

2637
02:56:07,614 --> 02:56:08,544
how do we deal with that?

2638
02:56:08,724 --> 02:56:09,084
Which one?

2639
02:56:09,294 --> 02:56:09,624
Nine.

2640
02:56:12,144 --> 02:56:13,914
Subject to monitoring and oversight.

2641
02:56:15,714 --> 02:56:15,864
We

2642
02:56:17,334 --> 02:56:19,164
proposed a restoration bond.

2643
02:56:19,734 --> 02:56:23,169
That is a part of another condition, I'm pretty sure, a restoration bond.

2644
02:56:23,214 --> 02:56:24,384
Oh, okay.

2645
02:56:24,534 --> 02:56:24,714
Yeah.

2646
02:56:25,015 --> 02:56:26,544
And then having

2647
02:56:28,044 --> 02:56:29,588
K&A inspect the stormwater.

2648
02:56:29,634 --> 02:56:31,043
Right. They do the stormwater.

2649
02:56:31,464 --> 02:56:31,705
Yeah.

2650
02:56:31,765 --> 02:56:31,974
Mm-hmm.

2651
02:56:32,994 --> 02:56:37,194
And so it would just be an estimate from them for stormwater inspections.

2652
02:56:37,614 --> 02:56:39,714
So we would agree that...

2653
02:56:44,004 --> 02:56:46,644
All right. So bonding for...

2654
02:56:48,444 --> 02:56:51,774
Is there a bond in place for the site improvements? No, just the...

2655
02:56:53,274 --> 02:56:58,194
Okay. Road acceptance by the town, inspections, blah, blah, blah, blah.

2656
02:56:58,254 --> 02:56:59,064
So this really

2657
02:57:06,354 --> 02:57:06,864
comes out.

2658
02:57:07,824 --> 02:57:09,534
I think it comes up, and it's covered under-

2659
02:57:09,624 --> 02:57:13,765
And 14 has the catchall bonding requirements as well.

2660
02:57:14,004 --> 02:57:14,304
Yeah.

2661
02:57:23,694 --> 02:57:24,144
Okay.

2662
02:57:26,124 --> 02:57:26,904
You okay with that?

2663
02:57:27,924 --> 02:57:30,294
Yeah. That's fine. That's okay.

2664
02:57:31,494 --> 02:57:35,274
And then the next one, Mr. Chairman, would be number 10.

2665
02:57:35,574 --> 02:57:37,598
That's consistent.

2666
02:57:37,598 --> 02:57:37,765
Just consistently.

2667
02:57:37,824 --> 02:57:40,284
Right. Okay.

2668
02:57:46,224 --> 02:57:46,554
So

2669
02:57:48,384 --> 02:57:49,524
what are we doing here?

2670
02:57:52,765 --> 02:57:53,364
Is there a motion?

2671
02:57:53,574 --> 02:57:55,374
Should I make a motion? I'll make a motion.

2672
02:57:55,494 --> 02:58:00,984
Case PZ12164-121619,

2673
02:58:01,015 --> 02:58:06,894
Magrella and GAM Realty Trust, owners, and Magrella Realty

2674
02:58:06,984 --> 02:58:12,294
Trust, applicant. Carlson Manor, 153-159 Hollis Road.

2675
02:58:12,414 --> 02:58:17,515
PIN numbers, tax map 1, Lot 8 and

2676
02:58:17,574 --> 02:58:23,394
8-2, tax map 2, Lot 7, 7A, 7B, 3-1 and

2677
02:58:23,634 --> 02:58:26,455
3-3. Subdivision and non-residential site plan.

2678
02:58:27,414 --> 02:58:32,904
Proposed 52-unit condominium style development zoned residential rural.

2679
02:58:32,994 --> 02:58:35,424
You're hereby notified that the final subdivision,

2680
02:58:36,804 --> 02:58:42,354
and I propose that the final subdivision and non-residential site

2681
02:58:42,444 --> 02:58:47,874
plan as cited above has been or will-- That we approve

2682
02:58:48,685 --> 02:58:53,455
the final subdivision and residential site plan as cited above.

2683
02:58:55,134 --> 02:58:57,234
Oh, that's the wrong thing.

2684
02:58:57,384 --> 02:59:00,174
Oh, I'm reading that one. All right.

2685
02:59:00,205 --> 02:59:05,484
For a condominium-style housing for older persons development with frontage on 122

2686
02:59:05,574 --> 02:59:07,404
and Hollis Road with the following conditions.

2687
02:59:07,494 --> 02:59:12,774
Conditions precedent, we've just gone through them all, but I can read them if you

2688
02:59:13,254 --> 02:59:13,914
think I should.

2689
02:59:14,214 --> 02:59:14,994
I think we need to.

2690
02:59:15,084 --> 02:59:17,185
Okay. With the conditions-

2691
02:59:17,515 --> 02:59:18,294
As amended

2692
02:59:18,310 --> 02:59:18,310
... as amended,

2693
02:59:20,304 --> 02:59:22,314
that we just reviewed.

2694
02:59:28,584 --> 02:59:29,919
I just say active and substantial.

2695
02:59:30,054 --> 02:59:34,254
And active and substantial development

2696
02:59:37,644 --> 02:59:40,914
will consist of within three years after the date of approval.

2697
02:59:41,904 --> 02:59:47,754
The items to be completed would be the main spine road in

2698
02:59:47,783 --> 02:59:50,214
phase one, along with

2699
02:59:51,414 --> 02:59:51,955
all of the-

2700
02:59:54,984 --> 02:59:55,824
Stormwater

2701
02:59:55,914 --> 03:00:01,494
... stormwater management improvements, and the wetland crossing, as

2702
03:00:01,584 --> 03:00:02,904
indicated in the plans-

2703
03:00:03,654 --> 03:00:04,599
With the base course

2704
03:00:04,599 --> 03:00:05,994
... and the road to base course.

2705
03:00:11,304 --> 03:00:11,888
And then,

2706
03:00:13,794 --> 03:00:16,074
substantial completion would add

2707
03:00:20,304 --> 03:00:25,659
all of the community improvements along with all of the other roadways and

2708
03:00:25,734 --> 03:00:31,554
stormwater management facilities, as indicated in the plans.

2709
03:00:31,614 --> 03:00:33,984
Yeah. I just want to clarify the phasing too.

2710
03:00:34,224 --> 03:00:39,174
Oh, in-- Yeah, phasing. Well, phasing, you're going to submit a revised phasing

2711
03:00:39,234 --> 03:00:39,594
plan?

2712
03:00:40,705 --> 03:00:42,864
Yeah. But it'll be two phases.

2713
03:00:43,134 --> 03:00:43,974
Two phases.

2714
03:00:44,259 --> 03:00:44,814
Up to 30 units.

2715
03:00:44,874 --> 03:00:50,304
Up to 30 units in the first phase with all of the roadway, the main spine roadway,

2716
03:00:50,814 --> 03:00:53,064
and may include the-

2717
03:00:53,185 --> 03:00:53,619
Yeah. Okay

2718
03:00:53,619 --> 03:00:57,024
... kind of the clubhouse. And

2719
03:00:58,464 --> 03:01:00,744
phase two would be the remainder of the improvements.

2720
03:01:00,864 --> 03:01:01,644
Okay.

2721
03:01:01,705 --> 03:01:07,644
And health and homes. Phase one being over a minimum of two-year period, and then

2722
03:01:08,784 --> 03:01:09,144
phase

2723
03:01:10,884 --> 03:01:12,474
two is after that.

2724
03:01:13,765 --> 03:01:16,224
Okay. So that's my motion, right? Do we have a second?

2725
03:01:16,284 --> 03:01:16,765
I second.

2726
03:01:17,094 --> 03:01:21,324
Okay. All right. I'm going to say it again to avoid a tie, just in case.

2727
03:01:22,314 --> 03:01:23,004
All in favor?

2728
03:01:24,294 --> 03:01:27,804
Aye. All opposed? One obsession.

2729
03:01:29,304 --> 03:01:29,634
Thank you very much.

2730
03:01:30,474 --> 03:01:30,864
Thank you.

2731
03:01:31,015 --> 03:01:31,435
Thank you.

2732
03:01:36,144 --> 03:01:38,935
Now, it's not that we don't want to see you again, but-

2733
03:01:42,354 --> 03:01:44,964
You're going to have to come back next week.

2734
03:01:46,765 --> 03:01:46,779
The

2735
03:01:48,414 --> 03:01:51,054
house looks like it.

2736
03:02:03,084 --> 03:02:03,984
Thank you very much.

2737
03:02:04,254 --> 03:02:04,509
Thank you.

2738
03:02:04,674 --> 03:02:05,034
Thank you.

2739
03:02:06,205 --> 03:02:08,334
Just two housekeeping issues here.

2740
03:02:08,455 --> 03:02:12,609
I know we normally, our rules of procedure say we don't take anything new after

2741
03:02:12,654 --> 03:02:18,429
10:00. I would suggest that we do take this next one if everybody's on board with

2742
03:02:18,504 --> 03:02:18,609
that.

2743
03:02:18,654 --> 03:02:18,984
Absolutely.

2744
03:02:19,944 --> 03:02:20,124
Okay.

2745
03:02:22,164 --> 03:02:25,044
With a full apology, Earl, for the delay.

2746
03:02:31,644 --> 03:02:36,205
Oh, yeah, we can do that. That'll be... That takes most of those people. Yep.

2747
03:02:36,265 --> 03:02:38,214
Yes. Mercifully.

2748
03:02:41,754 --> 03:02:43,134
Two more areas.

2749
03:02:43,705 --> 03:02:44,993
You can blame Chad.

2750
03:02:45,174 --> 03:02:47,304
Oh, yeah. We're going to have to do the other-

2751
03:02:47,724 --> 03:02:48,834
We'll do that afterward

2752
03:02:51,955 --> 03:02:51,999
... okay.

2753
03:02:51,999 --> 03:02:53,904
Poor Earl's been waiting too long already.

2754
03:03:02,904 --> 03:03:06,624
Won't match the CDA hearing, I'll guarantee you.

2755
03:03:06,804 --> 03:03:06,909
That's a lot more than 20

2756
03:03:08,544 --> 03:03:11,424
minutes.

2757
03:03:14,664 --> 03:03:17,844
Oh, that's right. You were there at 1:00 in the morning.

2758
03:03:18,265 --> 03:03:18,594
Yeah.

2759
03:03:20,544 --> 03:03:22,074
So this is a piece of cake.

2760
03:03:22,134 --> 03:03:22,435
Thank you.

2761
03:03:25,464 --> 03:03:25,974
All right.

2762
03:03:27,955 --> 03:03:28,344
Okay.

2763
03:03:30,564 --> 03:03:34,104
Okay, so we've got to open this one up. I've got to turn my brain back on here.

2764
03:03:35,154 --> 03:03:35,604
All right.

2765
03:03:37,705 --> 03:03:38,304
Next up,

2766
03:03:40,254 --> 03:03:46,015
you got Case PZ20043-060526, Zero Rosemary Lane, LLC,

2767
03:03:46,254 --> 03:03:51,594
owner/applicant, New Boston Road and Rosemary Lane, subdivision amendment to amend

2768
03:03:51,624 --> 03:03:55,914
the private road easement to allow for fire truck access to building sites on

2769
03:03:55,944 --> 03:04:00,354
previously approved subdivision, to keep the existing driveway to existing house,

2770
03:04:00,504 --> 03:04:01,944
and to not build the

2771
03:04:03,205 --> 03:04:06,714
proposed new driveway. No change in lots, and only extension of the easement for

2772
03:04:06,774 --> 03:04:11,513
Rosemary Lane. We just add some stormwater improvements, too.

2773
03:04:12,924 --> 03:04:13,749
Floor is yours, Earl.

2774
03:04:13,824 --> 03:04:16,435
All right. Good evening, Chairman, members of the board.

2775
03:04:16,494 --> 03:04:19,884
My name is Earl Sanford of Sanford Surveying and Engineering.

2776
03:04:20,964 --> 03:04:23,185
We've had this before you already,

2777
03:04:25,765 --> 03:04:27,399
but we are pushing through. The

2778
03:04:28,734 --> 03:04:34,015
report staff did hits the nail on the head, so I'm not sure at this late hour I

2779
03:04:34,074 --> 03:04:39,924
want to get into too much detail. But the main thrust is

2780
03:04:39,984 --> 03:04:44,874
that this was all approved back in 2006, I believe,

2781
03:04:46,134 --> 03:04:49,464
but was considered unvested when the lot was sold off.

2782
03:04:50,844 --> 03:04:54,924
And that was sold, that doesn't count, but this was part of both sides of the road

2783
03:04:54,955 --> 03:05:00,624
where the other one was sold off. But it was all done in the same meetings, two

2784
03:05:00,685 --> 03:05:06,205
sides. So just a little history again, Mr.

2785
03:05:06,265 --> 03:05:06,879
Carl Smith

2786
03:05:08,964 --> 03:05:09,234
had--

2787
03:05:10,494 --> 03:05:10,584
He

2788
03:05:12,054 --> 03:05:15,984
made it so there was only this one lane that could feed those four lots.

2789
03:05:17,364 --> 03:05:21,894
He pushed it away from the brook considerably of his...

2790
03:05:21,984 --> 03:05:25,584
If you take an average of the subdivision on this side of the road, it's over seven

2791
03:05:25,644 --> 03:05:31,404
acres per lot. He donated, I think, 11 and some change conservation

2792
03:05:31,494 --> 03:05:36,774
land on the big lot that goes with this house right here,

2793
03:05:37,223 --> 03:05:40,988
and he also donated another five across the road going right along

2794
03:05:44,484 --> 03:05:47,214
Beaver Brook. I believe it's Beaver Brook, right?

2795
03:05:47,334 --> 03:05:47,484
So

2796
03:05:51,234 --> 03:05:52,015
ultimately, then

2797
03:05:53,574 --> 03:05:59,034
Ashley bought these four lots and was just looking to move forward with.

2798
03:05:59,214 --> 03:06:02,994
They've been on the tax maps ever since 2006.

2799
03:06:03,864 --> 03:06:09,474
Interestingly enough, there needed to be a homeowners' agreement type document

2800
03:06:09,504 --> 03:06:14,274
written up and approved by Drescher. That took over six years.

2801
03:06:14,304 --> 03:06:19,344
So theoretically, Drescher should have said, "This is unvested," when that came up.

2802
03:06:19,404 --> 03:06:25,314
But that wasn't the case. We were caught completely by surprise that because it's a

2803
03:06:25,374 --> 03:06:30,084
funded subdivision, that this was considered unvested.

2804
03:06:30,114 --> 03:06:35,185
But that ship has sailed, but we got the variances to allow the

2805
03:06:35,604 --> 03:06:39,444
non-conforming lots due to the zoning change.

2806
03:06:40,284 --> 03:06:41,784
Two of the lots are non-conforming.

2807
03:06:41,904 --> 03:06:47,334
We got those established as ability to remain as on the tax records and as

2808
03:06:47,424 --> 03:06:48,474
originally approved.

2809
03:06:50,244 --> 03:06:53,364
The road was designed back then, approved by Keach.

2810
03:06:55,435 --> 03:06:59,453
And there's been no change to the center line.

2811
03:06:59,604 --> 03:07:05,455
The big change has been we bulged it out after getting the fire department's latest

2812
03:07:05,544 --> 03:07:07,494
model that we want it to be able to handle.

2813
03:07:07,854 --> 03:07:12,624
They have an outside radius of forty-five point two feet to the wall, and we have a

2814
03:07:12,654 --> 03:07:15,534
radius in there of 50 feet. So

2815
03:07:17,004 --> 03:07:21,594
this maneuverability, that was certainly a concern that you'd be able to make that

2816
03:07:21,624 --> 03:07:26,364
hairpin turn. This was done so we could better fit the topography.

2817
03:07:27,504 --> 03:07:32,724
We also kept it at a 16-foot road, things that minimize the amount of

2818
03:07:32,814 --> 03:07:33,594
impervious,

2819
03:07:34,884 --> 03:07:39,054
which to me makes this an environmentally friendly plan in a lot of ways.

2820
03:07:39,114 --> 03:07:44,244
Because if you took individual driveways for those four lots, it would be a

2821
03:07:44,304 --> 03:07:48,099
significantly greater amount of pavement that would be going to them.

2822
03:07:48,864 --> 03:07:49,044
So,

2823
03:07:52,674 --> 03:07:57,594
all the easements, they were in place. They were approved.

2824
03:07:57,654 --> 03:08:03,444
They've been recorded. There was a slight extension, indicated

2825
03:08:03,474 --> 03:08:09,354
shaded here, that due to the fire truck turning, we extended, we added

2826
03:08:09,384 --> 03:08:15,294
two easements. But as soon as the chief gave us his parameters, we met with

2827
03:08:15,324 --> 03:08:19,884
him and we did up those on easement plan, got it recorded.

2828
03:08:19,974 --> 03:08:22,404
So everything is in the registry,

2829
03:08:24,955 --> 03:08:30,939
and we're just looking to... So really, okay, the big change, the consensus I got,

2830
03:08:31,134 --> 03:08:36,324
and hopefully I'm not wrong, was that, yeah, this didn't warrant

2831
03:08:36,444 --> 03:08:42,144
the new regulation since this says that anything over two houses needs to meet town

2832
03:08:42,205 --> 03:08:45,519
standards, and that would blow this out of the water.

2833
03:08:45,594 --> 03:08:48,879
That if we want a 200-foot radius, it would be going way up on the hill, coming

2834
03:08:48,894 --> 03:08:54,594
around. And again, it would be a lot more pavement, and a 24 foot

2835
03:08:54,714 --> 03:09:00,609
or 22, I forget, foot paid width. So I've itemized, and

2836
03:09:00,924 --> 03:09:05,694
it's even itemized better in the staff report what we're looking for for a waiver.

2837
03:09:05,814 --> 03:09:08,994
So we're looking for waiver from those.

2838
03:09:12,054 --> 03:09:17,874
So we're forced, zoning says do it according to town road standards

2839
03:09:19,134 --> 03:09:23,634
and pushed us to you, and now we're asking for a waiver to those standards to be

2840
03:09:23,664 --> 03:09:29,304
able to, again, just keep the plan as it is in terms of the

2841
03:09:31,284 --> 03:09:35,124
center line. I don't know if you can see it, but there's very little cuts and

2842
03:09:35,185 --> 03:09:40,524
fills. We've done our best. It was basically done to try and just follow the

2843
03:09:40,584 --> 03:09:41,574
existing terrain.

2844
03:09:43,435 --> 03:09:47,754
What you didn't give us grace on was updating the stormwater.

2845
03:09:48,174 --> 03:09:50,214
So we did go back to the drawing board.

2846
03:09:51,205 --> 03:09:51,984
As it turned out,

2847
03:09:53,694 --> 03:09:58,868
it had a stormwater report. It just there was a 75-foot treatment swale.

2848
03:09:59,274 --> 03:10:03,324
We had to increase that to 130 feet to meet the current standards.

2849
03:10:04,974 --> 03:10:08,844
Other than that, we've got some here, but we've got 400 feet of overland flow

2850
03:10:09,265 --> 03:10:11,153
before it reaches the brook.

2851
03:10:12,955 --> 03:10:18,864
And we've got a little bit of pavement in here that will sheet for a little bit at

2852
03:10:18,924 --> 03:10:23,874
15%, which is the maximum, before it goes down into the swale.

2853
03:10:25,374 --> 03:10:30,984
But again, that's often tough getting that first bit treated,

2854
03:10:31,314 --> 03:10:33,174
and ultimately it comes out into

2855
03:10:34,524 --> 03:10:40,404
other plunge pools. Really a sediment basin, this 20-foot in diameter

2856
03:10:40,524 --> 03:10:45,174
that really accepts all that water and then makes sure it just goes out in a sheet

2857
03:10:45,234 --> 03:10:51,024
form around the perimeter. Right now, there's a ditch dug into the old

2858
03:10:51,114 --> 03:10:56,784
stone culvert. So we're replacing the old stone culvert with a 36-inch

2859
03:10:57,174 --> 03:10:58,914
culvert with one foot of

2860
03:11:00,534 --> 03:11:04,344
infill to give it a flat bottom so it goes through.

2861
03:11:06,324 --> 03:11:10,614
So that's pretty much it.

2862
03:11:10,944 --> 03:11:15,939
This is showing the

2863
03:11:17,034 --> 03:11:20,185
whole property. So this is the one that was sold.

2864
03:11:20,394 --> 03:11:23,618
This is the conservation easement through here, 11.8 acres.

2865
03:11:24,474 --> 03:11:29,124
We're well away from that. We have wetland up here that we're staying away from.

2866
03:11:30,234 --> 03:11:30,699
That's not-

2867
03:11:32,340 --> 03:11:37,620
Not a high value wetland like it is along the edge of Beaver Brook.

2868
03:11:38,370 --> 03:11:44,310
And at Tom's suggestion, we did go to the Conservation Commission to get

2869
03:11:44,340 --> 03:11:49,620
comments, and they provided their comment, which was pretty short and sweet.

2870
03:11:49,711 --> 03:11:55,139
As long as it's done with a stormwater plan, they were agreeable to the

2871
03:11:55,170 --> 03:11:56,370
plan.

2872
03:11:57,750 --> 03:11:58,395
So I think we're

2873
03:11:59,700 --> 03:12:02,940
trying to get this to the finish line. I think we're pretty close.

2874
03:12:04,500 --> 03:12:08,580
And we have some questions about the conditions,

2875
03:12:10,980 --> 03:12:16,260
whether I went out to discuss, do you want to build the whole thing or can we even

2876
03:12:16,320 --> 03:12:22,050
phase this? Because there was actually maneuverability at the turnaround

2877
03:12:22,110 --> 03:12:22,651
for

2878
03:12:24,480 --> 03:12:27,810
fire truck maneuvers, if that was a thing.

2879
03:12:27,930 --> 03:12:33,211
But it's not a make or break. Whatever you decide is acceptable.

2880
03:12:33,840 --> 03:12:34,680
We'll live with that.

2881
03:12:38,160 --> 03:12:43,050
It talks about having all the construction monitored, sort of like the other one.

2882
03:12:43,080 --> 03:12:44,235
This is obviously a lot

2883
03:12:45,870 --> 03:12:51,211
smaller scale, and we're fine with all the stormwater mechanisms, but we were

2884
03:12:51,240 --> 03:12:56,715
hoping not to get too crazy in terms of having to have someone out there monitoring

2885
03:13:00,060 --> 03:13:03,211
basically the shared driveway as it's being built.

2886
03:13:04,651 --> 03:13:07,949
Again, we're at your mercy. That's not a make or break thing.

2887
03:13:08,070 --> 03:13:08,790
But,

2888
03:13:10,500 --> 03:13:12,870
so I think that

2889
03:13:16,110 --> 03:13:22,080
as far as granting the waiver, I guess you're given two

2890
03:13:22,140 --> 03:13:27,901
options. They look good to me. I would say, would the

2891
03:13:27,930 --> 03:13:31,620
requirement pose an unnecessary hardship to the applicant?

2892
03:13:31,740 --> 03:13:37,575
I would say it would also unnecessary hardship to the environment to put

2893
03:13:37,651 --> 03:13:41,700
a town spec road in for these four lots.

2894
03:13:41,970 --> 03:13:47,580
But again, I think I've made the case of trying to keep impervious

2895
03:13:47,595 --> 03:13:53,055
areas to a minimum. And the other thing we've done to decrease impervious areas, it

2896
03:13:53,100 --> 03:13:57,240
did have a new driveway up to the homestead,

2897
03:13:57,901 --> 03:14:03,765
and the new owner was very hopeful we could keep this and met with the

2898
03:14:03,810 --> 03:14:05,925
fire chief, and he said, "Yeah, that's acceptable

2899
03:14:07,560 --> 03:14:12,090
as an existing driveway." So rather than coming in and having a whole new driveway

2900
03:14:12,151 --> 03:14:15,180
coming up through the edge, which the original plan had,

2901
03:14:16,590 --> 03:14:18,840
and that was mentioned in the comments when you started.

2902
03:14:18,961 --> 03:14:19,080
So,

2903
03:14:20,730 --> 03:14:26,325
it will be a split off right away. There's just some blending in there, but we've

2904
03:14:26,401 --> 03:14:31,381
also drawn in the profile of that driveway, just so it's on

2905
03:14:31,410 --> 03:14:33,030
record. And

2906
03:14:34,920 --> 03:14:37,830
the site distances were fine. That hasn't changed.

2907
03:14:38,881 --> 03:14:44,280
So basically, it is just taking what was approved in

2908
03:14:44,294 --> 03:14:50,114
'06 and massaging it in terms of drainage and hoping

2909
03:14:50,160 --> 03:14:55,740
to be able to make those lots on the tax records be real.

2910
03:14:57,720 --> 03:14:59,401
And I'll open it up for any questions.

2911
03:15:00,631 --> 03:15:02,910
Okay. Laura, just a quick question.

2912
03:15:04,110 --> 03:15:08,610
The staff report notes that there was an email from Steve Duby and the on-call fire

2913
03:15:08,640 --> 03:15:13,381
inspector in July. I don't recall seeing that in our Dropbox.

2914
03:15:13,410 --> 03:15:15,151
Do you have any idea what that letter said?

2915
03:15:15,660 --> 03:15:16,711
Yeah. Let me take a look.

2916
03:15:45,990 --> 03:15:47,145
Right. It says,

2917
03:15:48,510 --> 03:15:53,790
"The department is in possession of the correct access detail for this subdivision

2918
03:15:53,910 --> 03:15:54,690
and approved."

2919
03:15:56,850 --> 03:15:57,555
They approved of it?

2920
03:15:57,750 --> 03:15:58,381
I think so.

2921
03:15:58,830 --> 03:16:04,440
Okay. All right. That was one of my main concerns was that I didn't see an updated

2922
03:16:04,470 --> 03:16:05,610
comment from them. So,

2923
03:16:07,260 --> 03:16:09,600
okay, we'll start with questions. Where did we start last time?

2924
03:16:09,930 --> 03:16:11,370
I'm good.

2925
03:16:13,920 --> 03:16:15,180
Questions.

2926
03:16:15,660 --> 03:16:21,540
I just got a couple. So, this is going to be outletting into

2927
03:16:21,690 --> 03:16:23,100
a wetland, correct?

2928
03:16:24,120 --> 03:16:30,060
For a well, it's got a 30-foot upland buffer, if you want to call

2929
03:16:30,090 --> 03:16:31,440
it that, before it hits the wetland.

2930
03:16:31,830 --> 03:16:32,040
Okay.

2931
03:16:32,160 --> 03:16:36,180
But yes. I mean, everything on this drains to the brook.

2932
03:16:36,570 --> 03:16:37,381
Yeah. So,

2933
03:16:38,790 --> 03:16:42,990
I guess I was more concerned about the road itself because a lot of that drainage

2934
03:16:43,050 --> 03:16:46,110
is going to end up in your outlet structure at the end is going to be coming mostly

2935
03:16:46,170 --> 03:16:48,345
off the road and driveways, I would imagine.

2936
03:16:48,360 --> 03:16:52,860
Maybe some off the undeveloped areas of the lots, but-

2937
03:16:53,850 --> 03:16:58,980
Right. So this is all rooted down to make it go through the treatment soil.

2938
03:16:59,340 --> 03:16:59,550
Yep.

2939
03:17:01,440 --> 03:17:05,881
This road up to about here will drain into it but won't have the full benefit of it

2940
03:17:05,940 --> 03:17:11,010
because some of this is sheet draining into the side of it.

2941
03:17:11,070 --> 03:17:11,461
Yep.

2942
03:17:12,930 --> 03:17:14,040
And again, we're looking for

2943
03:17:15,540 --> 03:17:19,200
whatever Keith comes up with. If he feels there's any deficiency, we'll certainly

2944
03:17:19,230 --> 03:17:19,651
address-

2945
03:17:19,920 --> 03:17:20,160
Yep

2946
03:17:20,310 --> 03:17:20,881
... that too.

2947
03:17:21,450 --> 03:17:25,381
And that's designed, I think with the requirements for that are total suspended

2948
03:17:25,470 --> 03:17:31,170
solids have to be 90% removed and 60% of nitrogen and phosphorus

2949
03:17:31,530 --> 03:17:36,480
using appropriate treatment measures. Is that as designed to do that?

2950
03:17:43,410 --> 03:17:47,430
How shall I say? They don't give treatment soils.

2951
03:17:48,105 --> 03:17:52,800
They haven't been thoroughly tested, I guess.

2952
03:17:52,830 --> 03:17:57,989
So they don't give in the chart that this removes so much or whatever.

2953
03:17:58,050 --> 03:17:59,461
So, we're

2954
03:18:02,579 --> 03:18:08,401
trying not to have to

2955
03:18:08,461 --> 03:18:09,795
do a

2956
03:18:11,131 --> 03:18:14,401
pond or that they do give ratings to.

2957
03:18:14,820 --> 03:18:15,060
Yeah.

2958
03:18:16,020 --> 03:18:20,160
My personal feeling is that another pond crater put on this would cause more

2959
03:18:20,220 --> 03:18:21,480
problems than

2960
03:18:22,711 --> 03:18:23,100
a good

2961
03:18:25,170 --> 03:18:29,820
AOT compliant soil, is what we're doing, which is three feet, three to four-foot

2962
03:18:29,910 --> 03:18:35,580
wide, 130 feet long, only half a percent slope. It's going to absorb an awful lot.

2963
03:18:35,700 --> 03:18:35,820
So,

2964
03:18:37,200 --> 03:18:39,000
can I say it? I mean,

2965
03:18:44,881 --> 03:18:47,699
we did look to see is there an impairment, and we couldn't find...

2966
03:18:47,940 --> 03:18:49,950
It's not listed as impaired in that area.

2967
03:18:50,280 --> 03:18:55,920
So that's part of our con-- Said, "Okay, we'll just

2968
03:18:55,980 --> 03:18:59,730
increase what was approved last time in terms of

2969
03:19:01,620 --> 03:19:07,050
the vegetative filter strip from above and then the

2970
03:19:10,260 --> 03:19:11,040
treatment soil."

2971
03:19:12,240 --> 03:19:17,070
So I guess my main concern, I guess I have two on that front.

2972
03:19:17,340 --> 03:19:20,940
I think they're going to be getting any fertilizers and whatnot that are going to

2973
03:19:20,970 --> 03:19:25,440
be going directly into the soils as they wash downhill, and

2974
03:19:26,700 --> 03:19:30,300
I think that's where a lot of your nitrogen and phosphorus problems come from.

2975
03:19:30,510 --> 03:19:31,379
Yeah.

2976
03:19:31,440 --> 03:19:31,711
And

2977
03:19:33,000 --> 03:19:37,410
you're also going to get any salt and things like that, that get put on there-

2978
03:19:38,070 --> 03:19:38,340
Well-

2979
03:19:38,370 --> 03:19:39,961
... that aren't going to be infiltrated.

2980
03:19:40,110 --> 03:19:40,470
They're going to be-

2981
03:19:41,490 --> 03:19:47,370
One question I've got about the drainage system actually is, Earl, in

2982
03:19:47,430 --> 03:19:49,950
that upper section, is that a

2983
03:19:51,180 --> 03:19:53,580
grass line ditch, or is it-

2984
03:19:55,320 --> 03:19:55,440
Um-

2985
03:19:55,470 --> 03:19:57,330
What's the conveyance of this?

2986
03:19:57,390 --> 03:20:02,490
So you got mostly grass line ditches coming down through, and you only got it at

2987
03:20:02,520 --> 03:20:07,020
3% or 5 to 3. So I think 5% is where you--

2988
03:20:09,090 --> 03:20:12,901
If you're over 5, you're looking a bit more of a riprap situation.

2989
03:20:12,961 --> 03:20:18,930
Well, I mean, one option that you might have to improve

2990
03:20:20,640 --> 03:20:23,820
water quality off of that would be to do

2991
03:20:25,920 --> 03:20:28,320
stone check dams.

2992
03:20:28,410 --> 03:20:31,020
Oh, we have those. We have multiple of those, yeah.

2993
03:20:31,050 --> 03:20:33,030
And if you put-

2994
03:20:35,466 --> 03:20:40,716
If you put an organic, if you mix the gravel with an

2995
03:20:40,746 --> 03:20:46,056
organic material, it acts as a filter,

2996
03:20:47,616 --> 03:20:51,606
and you get pretty good removal of nitrates and phosphorus.

2997
03:20:51,921 --> 03:20:54,756
So, that's an option as well that-

2998
03:20:55,116 --> 03:20:56,826
And I think we have that. We're calling it-

2999
03:20:58,116 --> 03:20:59,917
It's not just a stone check

3000
03:21:00,066 --> 03:21:00,426
Right.

3001
03:21:00,667 --> 03:21:03,306
You're probably going to get that anyway, just naturally with it.

3002
03:21:03,756 --> 03:21:04,835
Yeah. That's true.

3003
03:21:05,481 --> 03:21:06,486
It usually gets built up.

3004
03:21:06,816 --> 03:21:07,146
Yeah.

3005
03:21:08,076 --> 03:21:11,886
But I don't know. I guess that was my only concern because that was really the only

3006
03:21:11,946 --> 03:21:16,597
comment the ACC made was, "It looks fine as long as it complies with the stormwater

3007
03:21:17,016 --> 03:21:17,796
regulations."

3008
03:21:19,972 --> 03:21:22,926
They didn't really give any guidance as to whether it did or didn't comply.

3009
03:21:22,972 --> 03:21:25,116
They left it in our lap to figure that out.

3010
03:21:25,176 --> 03:21:28,896
So I guess that was the reason for the question.

3011
03:21:29,286 --> 03:21:34,417
Yeah. And I'm sure Steve Keech is going to bust my chops over something on this,

3012
03:21:34,506 --> 03:21:35,076
but we'll see.

3013
03:21:35,946 --> 03:21:39,667
So he has the plans to review but has not provided a review?

3014
03:21:39,726 --> 03:21:41,167
I don't think they've gone to him yet.

3015
03:21:41,226 --> 03:21:43,236
I gave him a call, and he said he hadn't seen them yet.

3016
03:21:43,746 --> 03:21:47,706
Yeah, he hasn't seen them yet, but that is a proposed condition of them.

3017
03:21:49,386 --> 03:21:49,626
Yeah.

3018
03:21:50,196 --> 03:21:50,376
Oh.

3019
03:21:51,456 --> 03:21:55,686
I guess that was really about it. So I was just curious to see if there was

3020
03:21:55,716 --> 03:21:59,436
anything special about that elongated trench that somehow,

3021
03:22:03,097 --> 03:22:04,506
I hate to say for sure, but-

3022
03:22:05,736 --> 03:22:05,946
Yeah

3023
03:22:05,976 --> 03:22:07,731
... with some level of confidence would know.

3024
03:22:07,776 --> 03:22:13,597
I'm sure it definitely filters out suspended solids, because it's at

3025
03:22:14,286 --> 03:22:19,476
basically a flat surface, and it's less than one foot per second of

3026
03:22:19,566 --> 03:22:24,276
flow through it. But some of the other

3027
03:22:25,956 --> 03:22:27,651
under the stormwater manual,

3028
03:22:28,896 --> 03:22:34,266
it isn't classified for it. So, that's where you'd have to get into

3029
03:22:35,466 --> 03:22:37,806
either something more aggressive.

3030
03:22:39,396 --> 03:22:40,476
But if you have

3031
03:22:44,706 --> 03:22:50,167
relatively gentle slopes, as you say you do, there may be

3032
03:22:50,376 --> 03:22:52,686
vegetative options to

3033
03:22:54,156 --> 03:22:59,406
help de-nitrify things. So in other words, instead of having turf grass or some

3034
03:22:59,496 --> 03:23:03,786
kind of similar vegetation, using

3035
03:23:04,866 --> 03:23:09,816
grasses that the water needs to flow through, is

3036
03:23:09,966 --> 03:23:15,847
that you get surface contact with vegetation, and that's

3037
03:23:15,876 --> 03:23:18,486
going to help suck the nitrogen out of it.

3038
03:23:18,606 --> 03:23:22,566
Yeah. And of course, the biggest thing is we do have fertilizer

3039
03:23:24,516 --> 03:23:25,716
restrictions in there.

3040
03:23:25,761 --> 03:23:25,761
Okay.

3041
03:23:25,806 --> 03:23:30,801
So, because you're absolutely right, if someone goes home and gets carried away,

3042
03:23:31,896 --> 03:23:33,276
it's an issue.

3043
03:23:34,806 --> 03:23:38,526
You might even be able to incorporate some plunge pools along the way, too, just to

3044
03:23:40,236 --> 03:23:41,256
settle things.

3045
03:23:41,286 --> 03:23:45,621
But unfortunately, the manual doesn't give you any credit for those, even though I

3046
03:23:45,636 --> 03:23:48,426
know that they're doing good stuff.

3047
03:23:48,606 --> 03:23:49,266
Yeah.

3048
03:23:50,886 --> 03:23:52,656
Okay. I didn't have any other questions.

3049
03:23:55,266 --> 03:23:57,786
That can be whatever you want them to be.

3050
03:23:58,296 --> 03:24:01,206
For the road, well, the road is designed there.

3051
03:24:01,746 --> 03:24:05,076
Take the brand-new truck the fire department's getting.

3052
03:24:06,246 --> 03:24:11,856
The roadbed is thick enough to handle the weight and everything, so the deputy

3053
03:24:11,917 --> 03:24:13,866
chief is happy.

3054
03:24:14,406 --> 03:24:20,256
Yes. And again, I made it, we're not waiving the town standards for

3055
03:24:20,347 --> 03:24:23,796
road gravel thickness and pavement thickness and all that.

3056
03:24:23,886 --> 03:24:29,046
That's staying as a spec. It's just the geometry that says you need these big

3057
03:24:29,136 --> 03:24:31,926
radiuses. You can't go from one radius into another one.

3058
03:24:32,886 --> 03:24:33,350
Okay.

3059
03:24:34,356 --> 03:24:34,506
Yeah.

3060
03:24:34,566 --> 03:24:35,796
Just wanted to get that clear.

3061
03:24:35,976 --> 03:24:39,906
Yes, definitely. It's going to be a straight, straight road.

3062
03:24:42,186 --> 03:24:44,211
Okay. What's that? That's it?

3063
03:24:45,936 --> 03:24:48,997
All right. There's nobody in the audience, nobody online, so I guess it's back to

3064
03:24:49,086 --> 03:24:49,356
us.

3065
03:24:49,446 --> 03:24:49,507
Okay.

3066
03:24:51,156 --> 03:24:53,736
So we do have a couple of things, as you mentioned. We got the waivers.

3067
03:24:53,887 --> 03:24:54,007
Right.

3068
03:24:54,066 --> 03:24:54,696
And we got the

3069
03:24:58,867 --> 03:25:01,926
impact fee is active and substantial, that kind of stuff.

3070
03:25:04,626 --> 03:25:10,236
Okay. On the waivers, I move to grant the waivers as

3071
03:25:10,266 --> 03:25:10,986
requested

3072
03:25:12,247 --> 03:25:17,316
to table 3-1 of the resident utility standards of the board as determined,

3073
03:25:18,906 --> 03:25:22,882
and the board has determined that strict conformity with the requirement would

3074
03:25:23,016 --> 03:25:28,836
impose an unnecessary hardship to the applicant because of the geometry of the

3075
03:25:28,926 --> 03:25:30,126
site and

3076
03:25:31,896 --> 03:25:36,516
the board's desire to limit the environmental impact of this project.

3077
03:25:38,226 --> 03:25:43,836
And that the waiver would not be contrary to the spirit and

3078
03:25:43,896 --> 03:25:46,641
intent of the regulations. Does that make sense?

3079
03:25:47,436 --> 03:25:53,166
Okay. Moved and seconded. I was just curious, Gordon, if you'd consider making a

3080
03:25:53,196 --> 03:25:59,016
part of that motion that proposed conditions precedent five says, "Written approval

3081
03:25:59,046 --> 03:26:02,257
from the fire chief or designee and the director of public works that the plan

3082
03:26:02,316 --> 03:26:05,196
satisfy applicable emergency access and roadway requirements."

3083
03:26:07,476 --> 03:26:11,316
Strike out, "Excluding any relevant waivers granted by the planning board." Because

3084
03:26:11,376 --> 03:26:12,472
we don't have anything.

3085
03:26:12,501 --> 03:26:13,446
Oh, well, that would be in the

3086
03:26:14,766 --> 03:26:16,387
site plan or the-

3087
03:26:16,610 --> 03:26:17,436
Oh, that's true, I guess.

3088
03:26:17,586 --> 03:26:18,306
Just anyways.

3089
03:26:18,456 --> 03:26:19,266
Yeah. Okay.

3090
03:26:19,311 --> 03:26:19,311
Sorry.

3091
03:26:19,507 --> 03:26:22,566
No, you're right. So, okay. No, that's fine. Never mind.

3092
03:26:22,806 --> 03:26:24,306
I'll make that change later.

3093
03:26:26,347 --> 03:26:32,166
Okay. All in favor? All right. Opposed? Motion passes. Okay.

3094
03:26:32,406 --> 03:26:37,176
Okay. So then move on to the plan.

3095
03:26:44,976 --> 03:26:47,016
And I would move to approve case

3096
03:26:47,106 --> 03:26:52,251
PZ200430605260,

3097
03:26:52,986 --> 03:26:56,257
Rosemary Lane, LLC, for the above for

3098
03:26:58,056 --> 03:27:03,516
the subdivision of Map 7, Lot 70, 70-1, 70-2,

3099
03:27:03,757 --> 03:27:05,646
70-3, and 70-4,

3100
03:27:07,117 --> 03:27:11,347
New Boston Road and Rosemary Lane, with the following conditions.

3101
03:27:14,856 --> 03:27:20,046
Conditions precedent must be satisfied prior to signing the plans,

3102
03:27:21,126 --> 03:27:26,016
would be submitted a... Well, they're listed in the staff memo, but I'll

3103
03:27:27,036 --> 03:27:32,676
recap them briefly. Submission of updated application materials and revised plans

3104
03:27:32,706 --> 03:27:38,526
that reflect the application and subdivision and incorporate all

3105
03:27:38,646 --> 03:27:42,861
of the discussions with the planning boards and checklist corrections and approved

3106
03:27:42,876 --> 03:27:44,826
waivers and so forth.

3107
03:27:46,176 --> 03:27:48,726
Waiver should be noted on the plans, actually.

3108
03:27:51,456 --> 03:27:57,291
Submission of the MIL-R for recording at the Registry of Deeds, submission of

3109
03:27:57,336 --> 03:28:02,481
legal documents, approval of same by town counsel, and recording at the Registry of

3110
03:28:02,556 --> 03:28:04,086
Deeds at the applicant's expense.

3111
03:28:05,016 --> 03:28:05,661
Very familiar.

3112
03:28:06,306 --> 03:28:06,456
Yep.

3113
03:28:06,696 --> 03:28:09,622
A little bit. Those have already gone through, all the easements,

3114
03:28:11,257 --> 03:28:13,896
except for the two little added ones. Drescher.

3115
03:28:13,926 --> 03:28:14,106
Okay.

3116
03:28:14,736 --> 03:28:18,306
Drescher, and we went through that, and we haven't changed those easements, and we

3117
03:28:18,396 --> 03:28:20,796
work within the easements with all our drainage.

3118
03:28:20,856 --> 03:28:22,911
So you're satisfied with the condition, is what you're saying?

3119
03:28:24,097 --> 03:28:24,516
Sorry.

3120
03:28:24,786 --> 03:28:26,046
You're one step ahead of me.

3121
03:28:28,356 --> 03:28:33,637
Verification from the town's consulting engineer that the plans including

3122
03:28:33,726 --> 03:28:38,436
stormwater, excuse me, are adequate at the applicant's expense.

3123
03:28:40,356 --> 03:28:45,637
Written approval from the fire chief or designee and the director of public works

3124
03:28:45,666 --> 03:28:50,406
that the plan satisfy applicable emergency access and roadway requirements.

3125
03:28:53,586 --> 03:28:54,666
I would move to strike that.

3126
03:28:54,726 --> 03:28:55,882
Yeah. We're striking all that.

3127
03:28:55,896 --> 03:28:58,747
Excluding any relevant waivers.

3128
03:29:01,656 --> 03:29:02,271
Receipt of-

3129
03:29:02,271 --> 03:29:04,236
Of course, make us go back to-

3130
03:29:04,566 --> 03:29:06,036
No, no. I mean, you-

3131
03:29:06,126 --> 03:29:11,436
Just say if he does have... Since we have nothing from the DPW, and we have a very

3132
03:29:11,556 --> 03:29:13,101
limited comment from-

3133
03:29:13,146 --> 03:29:13,626
Right

3134
03:29:13,641 --> 03:29:16,566
... from a fire inspector or something, not even the chief, right?

3135
03:29:17,076 --> 03:29:17,916
Yeah, I think so.

3136
03:29:18,382 --> 03:29:18,382
So-

3137
03:29:18,426 --> 03:29:19,266
I think it'll be fine

3138
03:29:19,326 --> 03:29:20,466
... should be all right.

3139
03:29:21,336 --> 03:29:26,617
Receipt of any required state or federal permits, except for septic, which will be

3140
03:29:26,706 --> 03:29:27,216
applied

3141
03:29:28,507 --> 03:29:31,146
for and reviewed during the building permit process.

3142
03:29:32,497 --> 03:29:36,666
Payment of any outstanding fees related to the site plan application and/or the

3143
03:29:36,696 --> 03:29:39,336
recording of documents with the Registry of Deeds.

3144
03:29:40,326 --> 03:29:42,456
Conditions subsequent are

3145
03:29:43,956 --> 03:29:46,565
Pretty standard, Lauren?

3146
03:29:47,480 --> 03:29:47,480
Yep.

3147
03:29:47,497 --> 03:29:50,736
These are the standard subsequent conditions.

3148
03:29:50,826 --> 03:29:51,036
Yeah.

3149
03:29:53,466 --> 03:29:55,416
With active and substantial development

3150
03:29:57,186 --> 03:30:00,966
consisting of, dot, dot, dot.

3151
03:30:01,117 --> 03:30:01,507
I guess,

3152
03:30:03,367 --> 03:30:04,747
stormwater and road to base.

3153
03:30:04,896 --> 03:30:07,747
Yeah. Right. Stormwater and road to base.

3154
03:30:10,686 --> 03:30:14,946
Yeah, I think that's reasonable.

3155
03:30:15,186 --> 03:30:19,401
I guess we were discussing if he was just going to build that first house, would

3156
03:30:19,446 --> 03:30:19,656
there

3157
03:30:21,036 --> 03:30:26,166
be the ability to-- Because that is a permanent accountable area, would

3158
03:30:27,007 --> 03:30:28,686
that be a problem if you only-

3159
03:30:29,347 --> 03:30:29,646
Well-

3160
03:30:30,066 --> 03:30:34,176
But I think that putting it to base rather than having to put the pavement on if

3161
03:30:34,206 --> 03:30:34,730
they're not going to-

3162
03:30:35,076 --> 03:30:35,316
Yeah.

3163
03:30:35,617 --> 03:30:35,766
Right.

3164
03:30:35,796 --> 03:30:37,056
Well, it'd be base paving.

3165
03:30:37,117 --> 03:30:37,867
Base paving.

3166
03:30:38,046 --> 03:30:38,946
But the-

3167
03:30:39,186 --> 03:30:39,606
Still pretty-

3168
03:30:39,696 --> 03:30:43,986
You could do base paving up to the first house, and then base material-

3169
03:30:44,347 --> 03:30:44,601
That's-

3170
03:30:45,066 --> 03:30:46,176
... drainage improvements beyond.

3171
03:30:46,446 --> 03:30:47,466
I think that's reasonable.

3172
03:30:48,247 --> 03:30:51,876
That's not going to be substantial. That's not substantial completion.

3173
03:30:52,476 --> 03:30:53,316
Yeah.

3174
03:30:53,466 --> 03:30:55,266
That's the stormwater from there, right?

3175
03:30:56,376 --> 03:30:56,676
Yes.

3176
03:30:57,726 --> 03:30:57,876
So.

3177
03:30:57,997 --> 03:30:59,226
I mean, the stormwater would be

3178
03:31:00,516 --> 03:31:02,556
improved. Yeah.

3179
03:31:04,507 --> 03:31:05,601
The stormwater would not have to-

3180
03:31:05,632 --> 03:31:06,186
But it's likely though-

3181
03:31:06,230 --> 03:31:06,951
... to wait on that

3182
03:31:06,997 --> 03:31:10,190
... you have a dirt road all the way to the top for stormwater that's been done as

3183
03:31:10,206 --> 03:31:14,931
part of that initial completion. Probably going to get-

3184
03:31:14,976 --> 03:31:17,497
Well, DOT gravel is considered a stable

3185
03:31:19,356 --> 03:31:20,436
surface, so

3186
03:31:21,786 --> 03:31:27,637
if you get to the crushed gravel base compacted, from a state perspective, an

3187
03:31:27,696 --> 03:31:28,747
DES perspective,

3188
03:31:30,036 --> 03:31:35,736
it's not harmful to-- That's stable. It's considered stable. It's in the list of...

3189
03:31:37,626 --> 03:31:43,476
I guess the problem we have is that system is not designed, that stormwater

3190
03:31:43,507 --> 03:31:47,992
system is not designed to have a dirt driveway for 60-

3191
03:31:48,126 --> 03:31:53,481
Compact gravel has the same... You have to treat it like it's pavement anyway, so

3192
03:31:58,356 --> 03:31:59,586
if it's compacted there,

3193
03:32:01,597 --> 03:32:06,097
it depends on what the metric is, but it is the same in terms of if I would design

3194
03:32:06,126 --> 03:32:08,556
this as a gravel drive, it wouldn't change anything.

3195
03:32:09,786 --> 03:32:14,586
I just wonder because it's all a slope too, so it's not like it's a flat dirt

3196
03:32:14,646 --> 03:32:15,456
driveway.

3197
03:32:18,816 --> 03:32:20,646
I'm just thinking about what comes out at the end.

3198
03:32:21,216 --> 03:32:21,696
Well, then-

3199
03:32:21,847 --> 03:32:23,181
So, I don't know.

3200
03:32:23,916 --> 03:32:26,361
Then active and substantial construction

3201
03:32:28,086 --> 03:32:29,436
probably should be

3202
03:32:31,176 --> 03:32:32,137
to the first house.

3203
03:32:36,847 --> 03:32:38,406
And nothing above it then.

3204
03:32:38,617 --> 03:32:38,811
Right.

3205
03:32:38,811 --> 03:32:40,086
It's leaving in a natural state.

3206
03:32:40,236 --> 03:32:45,966
Well, if you do whatever you want to do, but that's... Yeah.

3207
03:32:49,956 --> 03:32:53,271
You're not going to be producing any water from impervious if you haven't done

3208
03:32:53,316 --> 03:32:54,486
anything there yet, so.

3209
03:32:54,816 --> 03:32:55,387
Right.

3210
03:32:55,476 --> 03:32:55,492
It's-

3211
03:32:55,507 --> 03:32:59,046
Yeah, I mean, if the rest of it's left in a natural state, that would be fine.

3212
03:32:59,105 --> 03:33:00,696
Yeah. And then-

3213
03:33:00,786 --> 03:33:04,266
It's up to them in terms of how they want to do it.

3214
03:33:04,806 --> 03:33:05,076
Yeah.

3215
03:33:06,396 --> 03:33:08,166
But if you build,

3216
03:33:09,546 --> 03:33:14,106
say, the next house that you build is at the end of the drive, you've got to build

3217
03:33:14,137 --> 03:33:15,111
the whole drive. You know?

3218
03:33:15,216 --> 03:33:17,046
Understood. Yes. Yeah.

3219
03:33:17,166 --> 03:33:22,372
So that's fine. Okay. Got

3220
03:33:22,446 --> 03:33:27,081
that? No. All right, so active and substantial

3221
03:33:28,747 --> 03:33:31,236
would be the construction of the

3222
03:33:33,156 --> 03:33:37,536
lower portion of the road to the first house to base

3223
03:33:37,747 --> 03:33:41,421
pavement with associated drainage improvements,

3224
03:33:42,786 --> 03:33:48,186
and then substantial completion would be the rest of the project.

3225
03:33:51,276 --> 03:33:51,936
Is there-

3226
03:33:53,316 --> 03:33:55,176
Not including the house. It's just the-

3227
03:33:55,747 --> 03:33:58,416
Which is the one that vests it, so we don't run into this again.

3228
03:33:58,476 --> 03:34:01,536
Well, it depends on whether you're talking about a three or a seven year.

3229
03:34:05,376 --> 03:34:11,151
Make sure I get this right. If you get that done within three years, you're

3230
03:34:11,166 --> 03:34:15,936
vested for seven years, and then if you complete

3231
03:34:16,836 --> 03:34:19,266
substantial completion, you're vested for all time,

3232
03:34:20,586 --> 03:34:21,007
I think.

3233
03:34:22,867 --> 03:34:23,226
All right.

3234
03:34:24,816 --> 03:34:27,007
So if you run up against the seven years

3235
03:34:28,896 --> 03:34:29,451
then it would-

3236
03:34:29,466 --> 03:34:30,470
The rest of the road.

3237
03:34:30,470 --> 03:34:32,016
You want to build the rest of the road.

3238
03:34:32,286 --> 03:34:32,466
Yeah.

3239
03:34:32,556 --> 03:34:32,811
Is what they do.

3240
03:34:32,856 --> 03:34:36,007
Before the seven years. Yeah. I mean it.

3241
03:34:36,066 --> 03:34:36,306
Okay.

3242
03:34:36,606 --> 03:34:36,786
Yeah.

3243
03:34:38,046 --> 03:34:38,916
The third one.

3244
03:34:39,966 --> 03:34:43,071
Right. So we got that? Does everybody else have that?

3245
03:34:43,176 --> 03:34:43,326
Yep.

3246
03:34:44,497 --> 03:34:46,117
Okay. That's my motion.

3247
03:34:46,176 --> 03:34:47,122
And impact fees, I thought-

3248
03:34:47,226 --> 03:34:50,586
Oh, impact fees are assessed according to the

3249
03:34:51,816 --> 03:34:52,401
fee schedule.

3250
03:34:52,536 --> 03:34:53,046
Yeah.

3251
03:34:53,106 --> 03:34:53,361
With

3252
03:34:55,566 --> 03:34:57,426
the rate set upon

3253
03:34:59,406 --> 03:35:01,387
building permit. Is that what it is? Or CO.

3254
03:35:03,816 --> 03:35:07,507
Certificate of Occupancy is when it's collected, and it's based on the final square

3255
03:35:07,536 --> 03:35:11,586
footage of the house. And I do believe I forgot to include that as a condition, but

3256
03:35:11,646 --> 03:35:14,916
it's part of the ordinance, so it's just kind of implied to be there.

3257
03:35:16,986 --> 03:35:17,196
Okay.

3258
03:35:17,391 --> 03:35:18,036
Did we get everything?

3259
03:35:18,666 --> 03:35:19,026
That's it.

3260
03:35:19,146 --> 03:35:20,586
All right. I second.

3261
03:35:20,946 --> 03:35:21,036
I second.

3262
03:35:21,097 --> 03:35:21,936
Move to second.

3263
03:35:22,476 --> 03:35:25,266
Fatally seconds. All in favor?

3264
03:35:25,536 --> 03:35:26,497
Aye.

3265
03:35:26,826 --> 03:35:29,646
Opposed. Motion passes. Thank you for your patience.

3266
03:35:31,867 --> 03:35:32,916
Where's the champagne?

3267
03:35:36,367 --> 03:35:37,236
Oh, findings.

3268
03:35:38,286 --> 03:35:38,512
Findings.

3269
03:35:38,512 --> 03:35:43,926
Findings of fact, as indicated in the staff memo of September

3270
03:35:44,376 --> 03:35:45,906
2, 2026.

3271
03:35:49,117 --> 03:35:50,106
Do we need to vote on that?

3272
03:35:50,466 --> 03:35:51,126
I think we do.

3273
03:35:51,276 --> 03:35:52,806
All right. So vote on that?

3274
03:35:52,956 --> 03:35:53,226
Yeah.

3275
03:35:53,856 --> 03:35:54,186
Second.

3276
03:35:54,546 --> 03:35:55,416
All in favor?

3277
03:35:55,507 --> 03:35:55,896
Aye.

3278
03:35:56,376 --> 03:36:00,516
Opposed. Motion passes. Okay, now onto the continuance.

3279
03:36:01,671 --> 03:36:06,696
PZ20030-040626 and

3280
03:36:06,757 --> 03:36:12,591
PZ20031-040626. It's

3281
03:36:12,666 --> 03:36:16,597
both the same. Golden Valley Holdings has requested-

3282
03:36:16,972 --> 03:36:17,872
Both of those are CV.

3283
03:36:18,426 --> 03:36:19,986
Yeah, I thought they normally have different numbers.

3284
03:36:20,016 --> 03:36:22,416
They do. The sequence is different.

3285
03:36:22,507 --> 03:36:23,705
Oh, got it. Okay.

3286
03:36:25,597 --> 03:36:28,416
They've requested a continuance. Do they request any particular date?

3287
03:36:29,106 --> 03:36:29,872
October 7th.

3288
03:36:30,276 --> 03:36:32,347
October 7th. All right.

3289
03:36:39,276 --> 03:36:45,156
I move to continue stated cases till October 7th at 7 o'clock in

3290
03:36:45,186 --> 03:36:45,651
this room,

3291
03:36:47,736 --> 03:36:50,196
assuming statutory deadlines are extended.

3292
03:36:51,276 --> 03:36:51,545
Okay.

3293
03:36:51,816 --> 03:36:52,326
Second.

3294
03:36:52,896 --> 03:36:53,796
All right, all in favor?

3295
03:36:54,426 --> 03:36:55,146
Aye.

3296
03:36:55,266 --> 03:36:56,617
Opposed. Motion passes.

3297
03:36:58,056 --> 03:37:00,456
We're going to skip the minutes for tonight, so we got-

3298
03:37:01,146 --> 03:37:03,936
Oh, good. It was just that continuance.

3299
03:37:04,056 --> 03:37:04,536
Just that.

3300
03:37:05,076 --> 03:37:06,126
Just the continuance, yeah.

3301
03:37:07,507 --> 03:37:12,696
Minutes, we got the wrong set in our package, so that'll be quick on the next week.

3302
03:37:14,646 --> 03:37:16,896
No other business being before the board, we'll-

3303
03:37:17,347 --> 03:37:17,510
Nope

3304
03:37:18,007 --> 03:37:19,206
... take a motion to dismiss.

3305
03:37:19,356 --> 03:37:20,151
I move to dismiss.

3306
03:37:20,166 --> 03:37:20,436
Adjourn.

3307
03:37:20,736 --> 03:37:21,997
I move to dismiss.

3308
03:37:23,586 --> 03:37:24,126
Second.

3309
03:37:24,516 --> 03:37:25,146
All in favor?

3310
03:37:25,251 --> 03:37:25,747
Aye.

3311
03:37:26,497 --> 03:37:26,856
All right.

3312
03:37:27,757 --> 03:37:30,156
And I will not be here for that.