1
00:00:00,112 --> 00:00:05,250
And you know, we always say sign in, but
we really don't want you to sign in.

2
00:00:05,250 --> 00:00:08,386
We want you to print so we'll know who you
are,

3
00:00:08,386 --> 00:00:11,589
because some of you got that doctor's
signature.

4
00:00:11,589 --> 00:00:16,726
But we're glad you're here, and we'd like
to— a couple of housekeeping items.

5
00:00:16,726 --> 00:00:18,862
Please silence your cell phones.

6
00:00:18,862 --> 00:00:20,330
And also at the front,

7
00:00:20,330 --> 00:00:24,934
we had a copy of the ordinance that we're
about to pass this evening.

8
00:00:24,934 --> 00:00:30,338
If you didn't get a copy of that, I've got
some copies here. Anybody want a copy?

9
00:00:30,338 --> 00:00:35,743
Didn't get a copy? I've got a couple here
and they'll be back on the table if you

10
00:00:35,743 --> 00:00:40,947
need them. And I want to turn it over to
Mayor Grimes and he's going to get us

11
00:00:40,947 --> 00:00:46,152
started. Thank you. Also, if you come up
to speak, speak into this microphone.

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And also, when you step up here, we'd like
to give your—

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like you to give your name and address.
And so we can record that as we go.

14
00:00:54,893 --> 00:00:56,294
All right, thank you.

15
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All right, thank you. Let's come to order.
And glad to see everybody.

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00:01:03,443 --> 00:01:10,488
Appreciate you all coming and appreciate
your interest in what we're

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doing.

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The first—

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the next item on our agenda Our
introductions,

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and we'll begin with the city attorney.

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00:01:21,553 --> 00:01:25,808
I'm Marshall Albritton, the city attorney.
David DeMarco, commissioner.

22
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Dale Grimes, mayor.

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Winston Evans, commissioner. Scott Price,
commissioner. Steve Collie, city manager.

24
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And we have some staff in the back.
Desiree Lohr, city recorder.

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00:01:37,621 --> 00:01:40,034
Tommy Campsey, your second recorder.

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Jeff Sharp, building commissioner.

27
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Okay, thank you. Uh,

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please join me in the Pledge of
Allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of

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America and to the Republic for which it
stands,

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one nation under God, indivisible,

32
00:02:03,001 --> 00:02:11,232
with liberty and justice for all. Thank
you.

33
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Next item on our agenda is the approval of
the agenda,

34
00:02:18,938 --> 00:02:25,911
and I have one note for an agenda change,
and that would be that we move item 9,

35
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new business, both parts A and B, to— at
this point,

36
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right after we approve the agenda. So it
would go before number 5.

37
00:02:36,195 --> 00:02:36,374
Second.

38
00:02:38,605 --> 00:02:41,803
And I so move. Is there a second?

39
00:02:41,803 --> 00:02:44,108
Second.

40
00:02:44,108 --> 00:02:47,812
Any discussion? All in favor say aye.

41
00:02:47,812 --> 00:02:48,696
Aye.

42
00:02:48,696 --> 00:02:51,856
Any opposed? All right. That's 4-0.

43
00:02:51,856 --> 00:02:57,363
Any other changes to the agenda that are
proposed? All right.

44
00:02:57,363 --> 00:03:04,315
Seeing none, we will then move immediately
into new business number 9, which—

45
00:03:04,315 --> 00:03:06,121
and we will go to A.

46
00:03:06,121 --> 00:03:13,163
The public hearing on Ordinance 2026-05,
an ordinance of the City of Oak Hill,

47
00:03:13,163 --> 00:03:20,386
Tennessee, amending the Municipal Code,
Chapter 14, Zoning and Land Use Control,

48
00:03:20,386 --> 00:03:25,894
Section 14-123, Walls, Gatehouses, Entry
Monuments and Gates.

49
00:03:25,894 --> 00:03:30,137
So, the floor is now open for a public
hearing.

50
00:03:30,137 --> 00:03:33,839
And this is a formal part of the process.

51
00:03:33,839 --> 00:03:40,520
This is not just like public comments that
we have at all of our meetings,

52
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:47,291
but this is actually a formal hearing
where we take residents' comments and

53
00:03:47,291 --> 00:03:47,743
where we take residents' comments and
their

54
00:03:47,743 --> 00:03:54,424
statements, their positions for or against
or for parts and against parts.

55
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And we welcome all of that and we have a
very—

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Thank you.

57
00:03:58,896 --> 00:04:02,129
Healthy crowd here, healthy-sized crowd
anyway.

58
00:04:02,129 --> 00:04:06,806
I hope you're all healthy too, but we're
glad, glad everyone's here.

59
00:04:06,806 --> 00:04:11,828
Just one note on this is that it's a
public hearing. It's not a colloquy.

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00:04:11,828 --> 00:04:14,579
It's not a question and answer with the,

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00:04:14,579 --> 00:04:19,325
with the commissioners or the city manager
or anybody up here unless,

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00:04:19,325 --> 00:04:22,627
unless it's something that absolutely has
to be—

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00:04:22,627 --> 00:04:25,782
Yes. Corrected.

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00:04:25,782 --> 00:04:30,038
But other than that, please just make your
comments to us.

65
00:04:30,038 --> 00:04:35,542
We're here to listen to them. We've gotten
a number of comments in writing.

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00:04:35,542 --> 00:04:37,524
These are just recent ones.

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00:04:37,524 --> 00:04:43,101
We've had lots of them over the course of
the period of time that we've been

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00:04:43,101 --> 00:04:48,018
discussing this fence ordinance, which has
been a number of months,

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00:04:48,018 --> 00:04:52,054
and which I hope all or most of you have
been aware of,

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00:04:52,054 --> 00:04:57,264
that it's something that's Yes. It's been
going on for quite some time.

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00:04:57,264 --> 00:05:02,768
But we do have a proposed ordinance that
is before us. It's a formal thing.

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00:05:02,768 --> 00:05:07,465
It was recommended by the Commission to
the Planning Commission.

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00:05:07,465 --> 00:05:12,895
Planning Commission, as you know, held a
hearing at their last meeting in—

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00:05:12,895 --> 00:05:19,060
earlier this month. And they had a hearing
and then they made their recommendations,

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00:05:19,060 --> 00:05:23,169
which is part of the formal process under
state statute.

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00:05:23,169 --> 00:05:28,453
And sent their views back to us. And we
have discussed it at a workshop.

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00:05:28,453 --> 00:05:32,563
And I think that what you have seen in the
latest draft,

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which I believe there is a copy for
everybody, is that correct?

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00:05:37,186 --> 00:05:37,668
Yes.

80
00:05:37,668 --> 00:05:43,052
Okay. So there should be a copy for
everybody at this table at the front.

81
00:05:43,052 --> 00:05:48,288
And that is what we are considering
tonight. And this is first reading.

82
00:05:48,288 --> 00:05:51,312
There will be a second reading in August.

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00:05:51,312 --> 00:05:56,696
We are going to have to have a special
meeting for that, assuming it goes

84
00:05:56,696 --> 00:05:57,286
meeting for that, assuming it goes
forward,

85
00:05:57,286 --> 00:06:03,038
because we have 2 Commissioners who are
going to be rolling off the Commission

86
00:06:03,038 --> 00:06:08,275
August 28th when they are sworn in— when
their successors are sworn in.

87
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And so we will have a special called
meeting on August—

88
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29th.

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00:06:13,012 --> 00:06:13,302
What was that?

90
00:06:13,302 --> 00:06:13,979
19th.

91
00:06:13,979 --> 00:06:15,444
August 19th?

92
00:06:15,444 --> 00:06:16,733
Yes, Wednesday, August 19th.

93
00:06:16,733 --> 00:06:19,664
Wednesday, August 19th at 6:00—

94
00:06:19,664 --> 00:06:20,292
No, 1:00.

95
00:06:20,292 --> 00:06:23,118
At 1:00, I'm sorry, 1:00 in the afternoon.

96
00:06:23,118 --> 00:06:28,636
That's when we'll have the second reading,
and only after that will it become law.

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00:06:28,636 --> 00:06:33,010
So with all that, I invite any of you who
want to make a comment,

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00:06:33,010 --> 00:06:36,442
speak here in this public hearing, to come
forward.

99
00:06:36,442 --> 00:06:40,008
And just be sure to state your name and
your address.

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00:06:40,008 --> 00:06:44,988
Speak into the microphone, come to the
podium and speak in the microphone,

101
00:06:44,988 --> 00:06:49,900
and we'll be glad to hear you. So who
would like to be first? Come on up.

102
00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:55,875
I'm Miles McDonald. I live at 807 Forest
Acres Drive,

103
00:06:55,875 --> 00:07:01,286
just up the road, 3 houses in off Franklin
Road.

104
00:07:01,286 --> 00:07:07,036
Could you speak into the mic, if you
wouldn't mind?

105
00:07:07,036 --> 00:07:10,080
It's fine, but I'll adjust.

106
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,162
Yeah, you can pull it out if you need to.
You can pull the mic, it'll separate.

107
00:07:15,162 --> 00:07:17,182
We'll get there in a few words.

108
00:07:17,182 --> 00:07:17,615
Oh.

109
00:07:17,615 --> 00:07:21,975
Is this okay? Yeah, that's good. Is this
all right? About 3 inches of the mic.

110
00:07:21,975 --> 00:07:24,300
Yeah, it doesn't pick up very far.

111
00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:25,309
Is this okay?

112
00:07:25,309 --> 00:07:26,512
Yeah, that's it. There we go.

113
00:07:26,897 --> 00:07:29,175
All right. So first thing,

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I'd like to point out that we have been
incorporated as a city for 74 years,

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since 1952. And to the extent that we have
a bucolic landscape today,

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00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:48,627
I've got to ask you how we did that while
allowing chain link and solid cedar

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00:07:48,627 --> 00:07:54,235
fences. They're all over Oak Hill. I'm 5
foot 10 or thereabouts.

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00:07:54,235 --> 00:08:01,332
When I look at trees, I have a tendency to
look up, not look level to the ground.

119
00:08:01,332 --> 00:08:08,605
There's nothing about the cedar fence that
runs across my property at the rear line

120
00:08:08,605 --> 00:08:15,527
of my house that obscures the ash trees
and the crape myrtle in the backyard or

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00:08:15,527 --> 00:08:15,877
and the crape myrtle in the backyard or
even

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00:08:15,877 --> 00:08:19,995
part of the snowball that's above the
roofline.

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00:08:19,995 --> 00:08:27,180
This ordinance does not seem to seek to
preserve the character of Oak Hill as much

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00:08:27,180 --> 00:08:34,365
as it does to impose someone's aesthetic
sense On all of the residents of Oak Hill

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00:08:34,365 --> 00:08:41,112
at the expense of increasing the cost to
residents to fence their yards while

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simultaneously prohibiting the most
durable and long-lasting type of fence,

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making fences much less capable of keeping
things in and keeping things out,

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one of their primary purposes, because of
the height restrictions,

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00:09:00,126 --> 00:09:05,821
and removing residents' right to privacy.
in their own backyards.

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00:09:05,821 --> 00:09:12,656
Nothing speaks more to this overbearing
imposition of aesthetic standards than

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00:09:12,656 --> 00:09:13,006
imposition of aesthetic standards than
that

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residents in Zone A, B, and C can only
have a 4-foot fence in their backyard,

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00:09:19,753 --> 00:09:24,835
but residents in Zone D, E, and F can have
a 5-foot fence.

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00:09:24,835 --> 00:09:29,742
There's a similar disparity for front yard
fence height.

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00:09:29,742 --> 00:09:36,664
I've got to ask, from a practical point of
view how the needs of those in A, B,

136
00:09:36,664 --> 00:09:42,096
and C differ from the practical needs of
those in D, E, and F.

137
00:09:42,096 --> 00:09:44,813
And by the way, if you go look,

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the recommended height for dogs for a
fence is 6 feet.

139
00:09:49,544 --> 00:09:53,049
The recommended height to keep deer out,

140
00:09:53,049 --> 00:09:58,569
according to a University of
Nebraska-Lincoln study, is 8 feet.

141
00:09:58,569 --> 00:10:04,965
I'm not recommending that we go with an
8-foot fence height, and in fact,

142
00:10:04,965 --> 00:10:12,150
you can go smaller than 8 feet as long as
you have a solid fence so the deer can't

143
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:16,269
see where they're going to land. I have to
ask.

144
00:10:16,269 --> 00:10:19,686
There's a recommended color for fences.

145
00:10:19,686 --> 00:10:25,381
What is the problem with my cedar fence
being painted light gray,

146
00:10:25,381 --> 00:10:29,937
the same as my house and garden shed? I'm
at a loss.

147
00:10:29,937 --> 00:10:35,107
This ordinance allows 6-foot fences for
construction sites,

148
00:10:35,107 --> 00:10:39,488
but not for residents' yards. I've got to
ask you.

149
00:10:39,488 --> 00:10:46,235
Why is it that security of equipment and
materials is more important than the

150
00:10:46,235 --> 00:10:49,565
security of the residents of Oak Hill?

151
00:10:49,565 --> 00:10:55,172
There are no setback restrictions for
fences, as I read in here,

152
00:10:55,172 --> 00:10:58,852
in backyards from from the property lines.

153
00:10:58,852 --> 00:11:05,950
The ordinance requires that 90% of the
height of a vinyl-coated chain-link fence.

154
00:11:05,950 --> 00:11:09,717
Be obscured from the neighbor's view of
it.

155
00:11:09,717 --> 00:11:15,325
Does that mean if I put the fence adjacent
to the property line,

156
00:11:15,325 --> 00:11:20,495
I have to make landscaping decisions in my
neighbor's yard?

157
00:11:20,495 --> 00:11:27,680
Does it mean that I have to trespass in
order to prune and fertilize those plants?

158
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:29,958
It's not well thought out.

159
00:11:29,958 --> 00:11:36,004
Is the obscuration requirement based upon
when the plants are mature,

160
00:11:36,004 --> 00:11:40,998
or is it from day one? There's a huge
difference in cost.

161
00:11:40,998 --> 00:11:47,219
Subject the obscuration requirements and
the landscaping subject to the

162
00:11:47,219 --> 00:11:48,271
the landscaping subject to the
satisfaction

163
00:11:48,271 --> 00:11:53,177
of the Board of Zoning Appeals—that just
doesn't cut it.

164
00:11:53,177 --> 00:11:58,435
Why would any resident of Oak Hill allow
an unelected board?

165
00:11:58,435 --> 00:12:05,620
to make landscaping decisions for them,
specific landscaping decisions. That's it.

166
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:12,717
If I had wanted to live in a homeowners
association governed by busybody voyeurs,

167
00:12:12,717 --> 00:12:14,557
I would have done so.

168
00:12:14,557 --> 00:12:15,473
All right.

169
00:12:15,473 --> 00:12:18,188
But I chose—

170
00:12:18,188 --> 00:12:19,891
Let's please hold that.

171
00:12:19,891 --> 00:12:23,693
But I chose to live in Oak Hill. Let's not
screw it up.

172
00:12:23,693 --> 00:12:27,053
Thank you. Next person.

173
00:12:27,053 --> 00:12:28,853
Can I come up?

174
00:12:28,853 --> 00:12:29,657
Yes, ma'am.

175
00:12:29,657 --> 00:12:36,806
Yes. I missed the early discussions

176
00:12:36,806 --> 00:12:43,751
that went on. Can you give us your

177
00:12:43,751 --> 00:12:50,287
name and address, please, ma'am?

178
00:12:51,155 --> 00:12:51,558
Pardon me?

179
00:12:51,558 --> 00:12:55,306
Name and address. Oh, yes, of course.

180
00:12:55,306 --> 00:13:00,575
I'm Julie Jones, and I live at 1115
Ridgeview Drive.

181
00:13:00,575 --> 00:13:07,565
You want my phone number now too? Yeah, no
matter. That's good. Okay.

182
00:13:07,565 --> 00:13:14,555
My husband and I missed the early several
months of discussions about

183
00:13:14,555 --> 00:13:21,445
this matter, but we moved here to Oak Hill
When our daughter was 14,

184
00:13:21,445 --> 00:13:27,827
and she is now 54. What's made— what has
made Oak Hill special?

185
00:13:27,827 --> 00:13:35,121
Limit to residential and churches, variety
of lots of all sizes, shapes,

186
00:13:35,121 --> 00:13:41,504
and architectural styles. The streets,
they're not just a grid.

187
00:13:41,504 --> 00:13:43,647
They curve.

188
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:50,491
They're straight, they're meandering, and
this is a sign of freedom.

189
00:13:50,491 --> 00:13:54,624
But Oak Hill is also uniquely restrictive.

190
00:13:54,624 --> 00:13:58,954
Single-family dwellings, one house, one
lot.

191
00:13:58,954 --> 00:14:06,039
I was appalled when one in our
neighborhood complained that she couldn't

192
00:14:06,039 --> 00:14:12,435
stand an unusual house that she couldn't
even see from her house.

193
00:14:12,435 --> 00:14:16,470
And she thought it should not be allowed.

194
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:23,358
As a matter of fact, her own house was not
to everyone's taste either.

195
00:14:23,358 --> 00:14:30,246
The people attracted to the freedom and
the unique limitations need to

196
00:14:30,246 --> 00:14:37,724
preserve Oak Hill. The proposed highly
restrictive Ordinance limits freedoms

197
00:14:37,724 --> 00:14:43,235
and will affect property values at least
to some extent.

198
00:14:43,235 --> 00:14:49,631
This is true not only for teardowns, which
is where our house is,

199
00:14:49,631 --> 00:14:52,977
but also maybe to a lesser extent,

200
00:14:52,977 --> 00:14:57,700
but also existing structures who are put
off by—

201
00:14:57,700 --> 00:14:59,746
Okay.

202
00:15:00,572 --> 00:15:03,504
I can't even read my own writing.

203
00:15:03,504 --> 00:15:08,836
That are put off by opacity, for one
thing, and landscaping.

204
00:15:08,836 --> 00:15:15,057
As we were on our way here, I saw so much
lush— so much lush greenery.

205
00:15:15,057 --> 00:15:21,544
Most of it was natural greenery. Some of
it was landscaping, but not all.

206
00:15:21,544 --> 00:15:23,765
And some it was You know,

207
00:15:23,765 --> 00:15:30,430
natural up and then right around the house
there was beautiful landscaping.

208
00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:37,272
But there's a big difference between
requiring landscaping here and there and

209
00:15:37,272 --> 00:15:37,805
requiring landscaping here and there and
let it

210
00:15:37,805 --> 00:15:44,648
be where the homeowners want to pay for it
and love and like it to be lovely,

211
00:15:44,648 --> 00:15:51,579
but not to make everybody else mow down
their natural greenery and replace it.

212
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:55,518
Yes.

213
00:15:55,518 --> 00:15:59,196
If this goes back to the property values,

214
00:15:59,196 --> 00:16:06,284
why would someone want to come into Oak
Hill in situations that will require an

215
00:16:06,284 --> 00:16:12,744
expert to interpret and apply all the
detail in this proposed ordinance.

216
00:16:12,744 --> 00:16:20,191
And another problem is that people might
not want to live where there is set up the

217
00:16:20,191 --> 00:16:27,547
potential for conflict with neighbors. You
know, you're not supposed to have that.

218
00:16:27,547 --> 00:16:32,482
That's in the ordinance. Well, but I We
got a variance.

219
00:16:32,482 --> 00:16:35,712
What do you mean you got a variance?

220
00:16:35,712 --> 00:16:38,672
And speaking of a variance, okay,

221
00:16:38,672 --> 00:16:45,312
so let's say if you don't want to do
something that's in the ordinance, oh

222
00:16:45,312 --> 00:16:45,760
something that's in the ordinance, oh
well,

223
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,721
you can just come get a variance.

224
00:16:48,721 --> 00:16:52,848
Well, now that takes delay, it takes
planning,

225
00:16:52,848 --> 00:16:57,244
sometimes it takes a lawyer to present
your case,

226
00:16:57,244 --> 00:17:02,179
and it certainly has a potential for
significant Delay,

227
00:17:02,179 --> 00:17:09,087
because you can't just waltz in any day
and say, well, I want a variance now,

228
00:17:09,087 --> 00:17:15,278
here it is. You know, there are all these
old clichés. Time is money.

229
00:17:15,278 --> 00:17:20,481
Delay is the enemy of something. I
couldn't remember what.

230
00:17:20,481 --> 00:17:27,928
But what is limited for all of us so that
if we want a variance but have to put off

231
00:17:27,928 --> 00:17:34,118
construction, remodeling, repainting
changes and pay for that expert.

232
00:17:34,118 --> 00:17:38,425
Maybe some people just don't want to fool
at it.

233
00:17:38,425 --> 00:17:45,871
They come and look at your lovely home and
they think, well, this is a lovely home,

234
00:17:45,871 --> 00:17:51,703
and somebody says, well, you know, these
changes need to be made,

235
00:17:51,703 --> 00:17:56,279
or you have to comply with this, and they
go, well,

236
00:17:56,279 --> 00:18:03,456
we saw another really nice house in X
community, maybe we'll— Go somewhere else.

237
00:18:03,456 --> 00:18:09,736
Think this over. So I'm not, I'm not
attacking specific items in this,

238
00:18:09,736 --> 00:18:16,824
although we do have plans to put in a
smaller area than our horrible chain-link

239
00:18:16,824 --> 00:18:21,400
fence that got made looking awful during
the storm.

240
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,604
So we are Going to have a smaller area.
We've measured it.

241
00:18:26,604 --> 00:18:33,332
It's my understanding that if it's not
more than 6 feet, it should be okay.

242
00:18:33,332 --> 00:18:40,420
And we want it to be one of the required
colors, which are green, brown, black,

243
00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:46,790
or white. And so we decided on brown, and
then I looked more carefully.

244
00:18:46,790 --> 00:18:51,635
Well, it can't just be brown. It has to be
dark brown.

245
00:18:51,635 --> 00:18:55,941
So the fellow who's going to put our
fencing in,

246
00:18:55,941 --> 00:18:59,440
he's on the search for some dark brown.

247
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:06,349
We are, we are more likely to be a
teardown considering how old our house has

248
00:19:06,349 --> 00:19:06,708
teardown considering how old our house has
been

249
00:19:06,708 --> 00:19:11,373
there. The problem is all the time we've
been there,

250
00:19:11,373 --> 00:19:17,833
we have accumulated things that relate
most dearly to us and our family.

251
00:19:17,833 --> 00:19:25,190
family, or to my desire to have been an
interior designer when I couldn't do that.

252
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:29,855
And so for us to move out would be a
humongous task.

253
00:19:29,855 --> 00:19:37,212
It would be the biggest yard sale and the
saddest yard sale for us that we've ever

254
00:19:37,212 --> 00:19:39,006
seen. I can imagine.

255
00:19:39,006 --> 00:19:46,184
So we're trying to figure out how we can
afford to keep the house at its present

256
00:19:46,184 --> 00:19:53,540
value and not sell it for enough so that
we could live in one of the bigger houses

257
00:19:53,540 --> 00:20:00,808
in O'Keeffe. So that's all I have to say.
I am a little bit emotional about this.

258
00:20:00,808 --> 00:20:07,447
I was afraid— actually, I have this
allergy and I tend to sort of tear up.

259
00:20:07,447 --> 00:20:14,086
And one of the things I'm allergic to is
speaking before a group of highly

260
00:20:14,086 --> 00:20:21,084
intelligent but not necessarily agreeing
group of wonderful people. Thank you.

261
00:20:21,084 --> 00:20:26,795
Thank you. Okay, we'll be here all night.

262
00:20:26,795 --> 00:20:31,810
Okay, who's, who's going to be next?

263
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:36,128
Yes, please come forward. Okay.

264
00:20:36,128 --> 00:20:39,053
My name is Rafael C.,

265
00:20:39,053 --> 00:20:45,042
and I'm speaking on behalf of myself and
my

266
00:20:45,042 --> 00:20:46,296
wife, Dr.

267
00:20:46,345 --> 00:20:51,126
Sarah C., who unfortunately cannot be here
because

268
00:20:51,126 --> 00:20:55,524
of illness. We are over at 913 Van Leer
Drive.

269
00:20:55,524 --> 00:20:56,098
S-E-E?

270
00:20:56,098 --> 00:20:56,571
What's that?

271
00:20:56,571 --> 00:21:00,202
S-E-E. Yeah, I signed in. I printed. Okay.
Thank you.

272
00:21:00,202 --> 00:21:05,410
Well, Sarah and I have followed the
conversation on fencing closely over the

273
00:21:05,410 --> 00:21:05,684
conversation on fencing closely over the
last

274
00:21:05,684 --> 00:21:08,630
year and we wanted to mention our
concerns.

275
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:14,248
Our concern is that the current revision
as it stands does not represent all parts

276
00:21:14,248 --> 00:21:19,319
of the city fairly. Oak Hill is a very
diverse city in terms of lot sizes,

277
00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:21,374
home construction, topography,

278
00:21:21,374 --> 00:21:27,061
and the concerns of citizens on 3 acres of
rolling property are very different from

279
00:21:27,061 --> 00:21:31,446
someone living on a 10th of an acre in
another area of Oak Hill.

280
00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:36,516
Zoning ordinances in Oak Hill have
historically been differentiated by the

281
00:21:36,516 --> 00:21:37,065
historically been differentiated by the
zones of

282
00:21:37,065 --> 00:21:39,257
the city according on lot sizes,

283
00:21:39,257 --> 00:21:44,053
and we feel that the ordinance being
presented should be no different.

284
00:21:44,053 --> 00:21:48,027
Bucolic views are not available in many
areas of Oak Hill.

285
00:21:48,027 --> 00:21:49,877
Just as a baseline reality.

286
00:21:49,877 --> 00:21:55,290
And while this ordinance may be suitable
for lot sizes of in excess of around 2

287
00:21:55,290 --> 00:22:00,429
acres, it is— we don't believe it is
appropriate for smaller lots in denser

288
00:22:00,429 --> 00:22:05,705
neighborhoods. Furthermore, as parents of
young children in this day and age,

289
00:22:05,705 --> 00:22:11,049
we unfortunately cannot assume that
everyone enjoying our view of the backyard

290
00:22:11,049 --> 00:22:11,255
everyone enjoying our view of the backyard
has

291
00:22:11,255 --> 00:22:13,927
the children's best interests at heart.

292
00:22:13,927 --> 00:22:16,804
As an example, in the street next to ours,

293
00:22:16,804 --> 00:22:22,217
a homeless person illegally occupied a
partially demolished property for months

294
00:22:22,217 --> 00:22:23,930
before he was discovered.

295
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:27,562
As aforementioned, there's construction
all the time,

296
00:22:27,562 --> 00:22:31,878
a lot of current turnover with people
moving in and out of our—

297
00:22:31,878 --> 00:22:33,317
of the neighborhoods.

298
00:22:33,317 --> 00:22:38,867
An enclosed backyard is an area in which
there should be a reasonable expectation

299
00:22:38,867 --> 00:22:39,004
there should be a reasonable expectation
of

300
00:22:39,004 --> 00:22:44,348
privacy, and the privacy fence is a key
component in providing that safety and

301
00:22:44,348 --> 00:22:44,965
security.

302
00:22:45,526 --> 00:22:46,296
Yes.

303
00:22:46,296 --> 00:22:50,389
Our preference would be for a 6-foot limit
on all rear yard fencing,

304
00:22:50,389 --> 00:22:55,385
although a 5-foot privacy fence within the
setbacks of the property of the backyard

305
00:22:55,385 --> 00:22:57,371
could be a reasonable compromise.

306
00:22:57,371 --> 00:23:01,464
However, we firmly believe that 50%
opacity is not adequate privacy,

307
00:23:01,464 --> 00:23:04,895
especially particularly for families with
young children,

308
00:23:04,895 --> 00:23:08,988
and unfortunately relying on a 5-foot
privacy fence is not adequate.

309
00:23:08,988 --> 00:23:12,719
Evergreens and tree covers, as we've all
recently experienced,

310
00:23:12,719 --> 00:23:15,909
is unreliable due to loss, disease, and
storm damage.

311
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:20,905
So in conclusion, while we also love the
views provided by the larger lots in parts

312
00:23:20,905 --> 00:23:24,035
of Oak Hill as much as anyone, we believe
that this—

313
00:23:24,035 --> 00:23:28,790
that the privacy and security for young
families who have chosen to raise their

314
00:23:28,790 --> 00:23:33,184
children here must be strongly considered
to equal or greater importance.

315
00:23:33,184 --> 00:23:37,939
We are grateful to have leadership that
works hard to meet the needs of all its

316
00:23:37,939 --> 00:23:42,694
constituents, and we are appreciative of
your time and efforts that ask that we

317
00:23:42,694 --> 00:23:47,750
continue working on this ordinance to make
Oak Hill family-friendly for neighbors in

318
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:49,736
all parts of the city. Thank you.

319
00:23:49,736 --> 00:23:52,519
Thank you. Thank you.

320
00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:56,628
I'm going to have to get out my

321
00:23:56,628 --> 00:23:59,824
gavel again now.

322
00:24:02,824 --> 00:24:08,781
Michael Carlson. I live at 993 Overton Lee
Road with my wife Patricia,

323
00:24:08,781 --> 00:24:15,589
who couldn't be here tonight because she's
caring for her 99-and-a-half-year-old

324
00:24:15,589 --> 00:24:17,717
father in West Tennessee.

325
00:24:17,717 --> 00:24:24,440
First of all, I commend all of you for the
hard work and effort you've put into

326
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,950
this, and the Planning Commission and the
city staff.

327
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:33,971
And for most of it, I'm in favor of most
of the provisions.

328
00:24:33,971 --> 00:24:39,247
But I noticed when I looked over what we
received in the mail,

329
00:24:39,247 --> 00:24:45,375
the version for the notice of public
hearing and what's published on the

330
00:24:45,375 --> 00:24:45,970
hearing and what's published on the
website

331
00:24:45,970 --> 00:24:52,693
have some important differences. And I
don't know if anybody else noticed that.

332
00:24:52,693 --> 00:24:58,140
I assume that what we got this evening is
what we're discussing,

333
00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:04,012
but what we received in the mail has some
important differences. Yes.

334
00:25:04,012 --> 00:25:08,863
Important differences that let me just
point out briefly.

335
00:25:08,863 --> 00:25:12,607
First of all, under the definitions
section,

336
00:25:12,607 --> 00:25:17,713
the mailed version has no definition for a
chain link fence,

337
00:25:17,713 --> 00:25:20,436
whereas the online version does.

338
00:25:20,436 --> 00:25:24,351
In terms of the height and location of
fences,

339
00:25:24,351 --> 00:25:29,287
as I think has been measured already or
mentioned already,

340
00:25:29,287 --> 00:25:35,244
The online version says no front yard
fences in Districts A, B, and C,

341
00:25:35,244 --> 00:25:40,690
whereas the mailed version said 3-foot
fences in the front yard.

342
00:25:40,690 --> 00:25:47,158
And then probably most importantly, the
final section in the mailed version,

343
00:25:47,158 --> 00:25:50,903
Section E, refers to existing walls,
fences,

344
00:25:50,903 --> 00:25:55,753
and associated structures that would be
grandfathered in.

345
00:25:55,753 --> 00:26:00,519
And can be repaired or replaced as they
currently exist.

346
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:05,455
And that verbiage has been left out of the
mailed version.

347
00:26:05,455 --> 00:26:09,795
So I'm glad to see that it's in the online
version.

348
00:26:09,795 --> 00:26:14,561
I particularly like the restrictions on
retaining walls.

349
00:26:14,561 --> 00:26:19,922
And restrictions about concrete block
walls without any facing.

350
00:26:19,922 --> 00:26:25,284
But as many of the people commented
already, I think it's a bit

351
00:26:25,284 --> 00:26:26,730
already, I think it's a bit
over-restrictive.

352
00:26:26,730 --> 00:26:33,198
I live in residential zone F, the largest
minimum lot size, 4-acre minimums.

353
00:26:33,198 --> 00:26:37,368
Many of my neighbors have 8, 10 acres or
or more.

354
00:26:37,368 --> 00:26:44,346
And I think it's unreasonable to restrict
fence size in those large lots to 4 or 5

355
00:26:44,346 --> 00:26:51,069
feet. I would be strongly in favor of
6-foot fences in all yards in District F,

356
00:26:51,069 --> 00:26:53,963
especially in rear and side yards.

357
00:26:53,963 --> 00:27:00,260
I think chain-link fences should be
black-clad only because The black clad

358
00:27:00,260 --> 00:27:07,324
essentially causes the fence to disappear
and it blends into the background better.

359
00:27:07,324 --> 00:27:14,047
I agree that it's unreasonable to require
the BZA to approve our landscaping of

360
00:27:14,047 --> 00:27:19,919
chain link fences. I don't think that's
something that we need to do.

361
00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:25,280
As an example of why I think we need
6-foot fences In our zone,

362
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:32,428
a couple of years ago, our neighbor, Judge
Gloria Dumas and her husband Ken Lavitan,

363
00:27:32,428 --> 00:27:37,109
discovered a homeless man living in their
outdoor shed.

364
00:27:37,109 --> 00:27:41,534
He'd been living there apparently for
several weeks.

365
00:27:41,534 --> 00:27:47,577
He was sleeping in the shed and taking
water from their outdoor spigot.

366
00:27:47,577 --> 00:27:51,236
And when she saw him and called the
police,

367
00:27:51,236 --> 00:27:55,406
This man fled up into the woods behind our
house,

368
00:27:55,406 --> 00:28:01,448
and that was quite alarming to my wife,
who was home alone at the time.

369
00:28:01,448 --> 00:28:05,703
In addition, we're inundated with deer and
coyote,

370
00:28:05,703 --> 00:28:11,064
and so a six-foot fence would at least
help to discourage them.

371
00:28:11,064 --> 00:28:17,787
It may not totally prevent the deer, but
it would at least discourage them and.

372
00:28:17,787 --> 00:28:21,787
Perhaps a solid privacy fence would do the
job.

373
00:28:21,787 --> 00:28:28,936
And then lastly, I think fences should be
allowed on public easements as long as the

374
00:28:28,936 --> 00:28:32,850
utility has reasonable access to the
easement.

375
00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:35,148
As an example, in our yard,

376
00:28:35,148 --> 00:28:41,361
we have a 20-foot-wide public sewer
easement that crosses deeply into our

377
00:28:41,361 --> 00:28:41,786
easement that crosses deeply into our
front

378
00:28:41,786 --> 00:28:48,254
yard, and at the apex It's probably 150
feet off of our front property line.

379
00:28:48,254 --> 00:28:52,764
So if we had to make a fence around that,
that would—

380
00:28:52,764 --> 00:28:59,402
that would not be the aesthetics I don't
think anybody would be interested in.

381
00:28:59,402 --> 00:29:00,253
Thank you.

382
00:29:00,253 --> 00:29:03,995
Thank you.

383
00:29:03,995 --> 00:29:07,737
All right.

384
00:29:07,737 --> 00:29:13,350
Next person who

385
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:20,086
would like to come

386
00:29:20,086 --> 00:29:26,447
Vishnu Jayamohan.

387
00:29:26,495 --> 00:29:30,128
I'm here with my wife, Katarina Jayamohan,
and we live at 835 Brentview Drive.

388
00:29:30,128 --> 00:29:31,851
I couldn't quite hear you. I'm sorry.

389
00:29:31,851 --> 00:29:35,065
I won't make you spell the name out, so
I'll give you my credit card.

390
00:29:35,065 --> 00:29:36,602
Okay, good, very good. Thank you.

391
00:29:36,602 --> 00:29:37,261
Credit card.

392
00:29:37,646 --> 00:29:42,865
What is your address, please? 835
Brentview Drive, just about a mile up the

393
00:29:42,865 --> 00:29:43,213
Brentview Drive, just about a mile up the
road.

394
00:29:43,213 --> 00:29:47,040
Appreciate your time today and indeed
everybody else's.

395
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,310
Thank you for the credit card back, by the
way.

396
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:55,598
One of the reasons, you know, one of the
reasons we moved to Oak Hill, among

397
00:29:55,598 --> 00:29:56,085
reasons we moved to Oak Hill, among
others,

398
00:29:56,085 --> 00:30:01,582
Yes. One of the reasons I chose the area
was some of the reasons that have been

399
00:30:01,582 --> 00:30:05,479
pointed out here, the variety that you see
in the homes.

400
00:30:05,479 --> 00:30:07,636
You get large lots, small lots,

401
00:30:07,636 --> 00:30:11,324
older homes and multimillion-dollar new
construction.

402
00:30:11,324 --> 00:30:16,055
And it brings with it a really healthy mix
of backgrounds and folks.

403
00:30:16,055 --> 00:30:21,692
And I think that really is— I was a little
bit surprised to read about, you know,

404
00:30:21,692 --> 00:30:25,867
the character is defined very much by the
bucolic landscape.

405
00:30:25,867 --> 00:30:27,258
I think, personally,

406
00:30:27,258 --> 00:30:31,920
I think the character is defined by the
people in the neighborhood.

407
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,861
We used to live in a neighborhood with an
HOA and with it, it has many,

408
00:30:36,861 --> 00:30:42,636
many benefits. To me, they kinda layer up
on sort of, let's say, to be a bit nerdy,

409
00:30:42,636 --> 00:30:44,584
Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

410
00:30:44,584 --> 00:30:46,741
And so, you have your security,

411
00:30:46,741 --> 00:30:51,334
but then HOA above that gives you kind of
a very homogeneous look,

412
00:30:51,334 --> 00:30:54,882
a very repeatable landscape and certain
conditions.

413
00:30:54,882 --> 00:30:57,874
That's not the reason we moved to Oak
Hill.

414
00:30:57,874 --> 00:31:03,441
It's one of the reasons we left HOA and we
moved to a neighborhood like Oak Hill

415
00:31:03,441 --> 00:31:07,338
where there is this beautiful differences
and diversity.

416
00:31:07,338 --> 00:31:11,513
We live— we're fortunate to live on a
larger lot and for us,

417
00:31:11,513 --> 00:31:15,896
I'm struggling to understand how, when I
look at that triangle,

418
00:31:15,896 --> 00:31:20,628
I think any neighborhood deserves to have—
Yes. A level of security.

419
00:31:20,628 --> 00:31:25,846
I shouldn't be able to necessarily
infringe on my neighbor's aesthetics or,

420
00:31:25,846 --> 00:31:31,135
or comfort. Me on 3 acres putting up a
fence of really any height that's not

421
00:31:31,135 --> 00:31:31,622
fence of really any height that's not
visible

422
00:31:31,622 --> 00:31:35,379
to any home on any direction, no matter
how tall I go,

423
00:31:35,379 --> 00:31:40,459
or at least if I go anything less than 15
feet, to me just doesn't quite—

424
00:31:40,459 --> 00:31:44,007
I don't quite understand how that becomes
an issue.

425
00:31:44,007 --> 00:31:49,226
And is it really worth committing
resources to enforce a permit around that

426
00:31:49,226 --> 00:31:49,783
resources to enforce a permit around that
and then

427
00:31:49,783 --> 00:31:52,775
really tell me what— how it should be
done?

428
00:31:52,775 --> 00:31:56,950
We are very fortunate to have a lot of
deer on our property.

429
00:31:56,950 --> 00:32:01,055
We're also fortunate to have a very active
German Shepherd,

430
00:32:01,055 --> 00:32:03,908
and those two don't always mix very well.

431
00:32:03,908 --> 00:32:07,178
But we love the deer, so we try to keep
her in.

432
00:32:07,178 --> 00:32:12,606
But my point is to say that If at some
point I felt the need to put up a fence

433
00:32:12,606 --> 00:32:12,884
point I felt the need to put up a fence
that

434
00:32:12,884 --> 00:32:16,989
again is completely not visible to anyone
in any direction,

435
00:32:16,989 --> 00:32:22,765
and it happens to be eight feet tall and
have zero or a hundred percent blockage or

436
00:32:22,765 --> 00:32:26,105
opacity, I think that's that's a
reasonable ask.

437
00:32:26,105 --> 00:32:31,393
And so I think while the spirit of it is
intended to preserve the aesthetic,

438
00:32:31,393 --> 00:32:32,854
I highly urge you to.

439
00:32:32,854 --> 00:32:36,194
to consider what really makes Oak Hill Oak
Hill,

440
00:32:36,194 --> 00:32:39,952
which I think is a little bit more than
the aesthetic.

441
00:32:39,952 --> 00:32:43,431
And secondly, if it's done in somebody's
backyard,

442
00:32:43,431 --> 00:32:45,866
they're doing what they want to do.

443
00:32:45,866 --> 00:32:50,876
That also is very much part of what brings
wonderful people to Oak Hill.

444
00:32:50,876 --> 00:32:52,546
So that's it. Thank you.

445
00:32:52,546 --> 00:32:53,304
Thank you.

446
00:32:53,304 --> 00:32:57,754
One, just a little clarification.

447
00:32:57,754 --> 00:33:05,171
I did verify with my neighbor right here
that I said we

448
00:33:05,171 --> 00:33:09,621
wanted a 6-foot chain-link fence.

449
00:33:09,621 --> 00:33:13,127
We have 5-inch increments,

450
00:33:13,127 --> 00:33:19,735
and my confusion is that 5 feet is 6 feet
inches.

451
00:33:19,735 --> 00:33:23,241
I don't propose 6 of them.

452
00:33:23,241 --> 00:33:25,505
All right. Okay. Please come forward.

453
00:33:25,505 --> 00:33:31,316
Thank you. Good evening. My name is Dan
Benedetti. I live at 852 Glendale Lane.

454
00:33:31,316 --> 00:33:32,787
My wife is not here,

455
00:33:32,787 --> 00:33:38,597
but she and I were at a prior meeting on
this topic last fall that was, I would

456
00:33:38,597 --> 00:33:38,891
this topic last fall that was, I would
say,

457
00:33:38,891 --> 00:33:45,070
similarly passionate and a large group of
people at that time that really weighed in

458
00:33:45,070 --> 00:33:51,101
on how seemingly unnecessarily restrictive
this was on people's freedom to protect

459
00:33:51,101 --> 00:33:55,808
their homes with fences of locations and
sizes that they wanted.

460
00:33:55,808 --> 00:34:01,766
And so we were very surprised to see the
revised version of this preserve much of

461
00:34:01,766 --> 00:34:07,723
the language that would restrict people
from putting in fences where they feel is

462
00:34:07,723 --> 00:34:12,725
appropriate for the safety of their homes.
We live on Glendale Lane.

463
00:34:12,725 --> 00:34:16,329
At some point, that street was not a
cut-through,

464
00:34:16,329 --> 00:34:22,507
but it is very common now that when we try
and leave Glendale and go out to Franklin

465
00:34:22,507 --> 00:34:26,920
Yes. We find the street backed up to the
Governor's Mansion.

466
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,143
We have to wait 10 to 20 minutes to get
out if you want to go that way.

467
00:34:32,143 --> 00:34:36,703
People drive down that road that aren't
residents of Oak Hill.

468
00:34:36,703 --> 00:34:42,660
And so we very much are worried about the
ability to put in a fence that we would

469
00:34:42,660 --> 00:34:47,515
want to protect our young children who can
play in their backyard.

470
00:34:47,515 --> 00:34:53,693
We remodeled our home Not too long ago and
planned with the design to be able to put

471
00:34:53,693 --> 00:34:58,621
our fence in based on the current
language. We have bids right now.

472
00:34:59,007 --> 00:35:01,190
Our current fence, we have a permit for
it.

473
00:35:01,335 --> 00:35:02,731
If this goes into effect,

474
00:35:02,731 --> 00:35:07,198
we are going to have to break a contract
probably with the fence company because

475
00:35:07,198 --> 00:35:07,645
what is—

476
00:35:07,902 --> 00:35:08,882
we are a corner lot.

477
00:35:09,203 --> 00:35:14,306
What is deemed the back of our house would
actually shrink our fenceable property

478
00:35:14,306 --> 00:35:18,276
dramatically. It just doesn't make sense.
This isn't necessary.

479
00:35:18,276 --> 00:35:22,812
I was walking around the neighborhood and
looking at mostly Lot C homes,

480
00:35:22,812 --> 00:35:27,663
which ours is, and there are many fences
that go up to— within people's front

481
00:35:27,663 --> 00:35:28,041
that go up to— within people's front
yards.

482
00:35:28,041 --> 00:35:29,805
There's not so many, though,

483
00:35:29,805 --> 00:35:34,657
that it makes it impossible to look around
and see beautiful yards and trees.

484
00:35:34,657 --> 00:35:39,760
This just doesn't seem like there's an
epidemic of people throwing up fences that

485
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,044
are ruining the nature of our
neighborhood. Thank you. Neighborhood.

486
00:35:44,044 --> 00:35:48,833
We've been here for 8 years and I have not
seen this influx of fences go up.

487
00:35:48,833 --> 00:35:52,361
So this feels like just an unnecessary
step to make our—

488
00:35:52,361 --> 00:35:57,149
infringe upon our ability to design the
homes and our yards the way we want.

489
00:35:57,149 --> 00:36:00,300
Our neighbor across the street from us is
a D lot,

490
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:02,757
so they get different rules than we do.

491
00:36:02,757 --> 00:36:07,797
I think some of it has to do with size of
lots, but also the The streets, right?

492
00:36:07,797 --> 00:36:12,396
The if you're down on Crestwood or sorry
Curtiswood, that's a big street.

493
00:36:12,396 --> 00:36:14,161
A lot of people drive on it.

494
00:36:14,161 --> 00:36:19,138
A lot of those are the lot Ds that can
have a fence in their front yard if they

495
00:36:19,138 --> 00:36:24,241
want. So our neighbor can, but we can't
because we're on the border between C and

496
00:36:24,241 --> 00:36:24,367
because we're on the border between C and
D.

497
00:36:24,367 --> 00:36:28,085
It just the inconsistency doesn't make
sense. We have dogs.

498
00:36:28,085 --> 00:36:30,038
They are going to be out there,

499
00:36:30,038 --> 00:36:34,448
and we want to be able to have enough of a
fence in place with enough.

500
00:36:34,448 --> 00:36:39,488
Privacy so that they're not just barking
at every person that walks by our home.

501
00:36:39,488 --> 00:36:41,820
Again, it's a relatively busy street,

502
00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:46,923
and yet because of the lovely nature of
our neighborhood, there aren't sidewalks.

503
00:36:46,923 --> 00:36:49,758
People still are walking all around
Glendale.

504
00:36:49,758 --> 00:36:52,593
Our dogs will be out there barking at
people,

505
00:36:52,593 --> 00:36:57,760
and we will have to constantly be pulling
them in and out of the home just for the

506
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,973
nature of someone walking their dog past
our house.

507
00:37:00,973 --> 00:37:05,887
The ability to have a privacy fence
protects They won't see those dogs walking

508
00:37:05,887 --> 00:37:06,076
protects They won't see those dogs walking
by.

509
00:37:06,076 --> 00:37:10,802
We won't have to hear from our neighbors,
hey, your dogs are barking again,

510
00:37:10,802 --> 00:37:12,251
that's really annoying.

511
00:37:12,251 --> 00:37:15,905
Again, there's many reasons why the degree
of restriction—

512
00:37:15,905 --> 00:37:19,370
I'm struck by the current section 123 is
one paragraph.

513
00:37:19,370 --> 00:37:24,600
So now we're going from one paragraph to 5
full pages of new restrictions that need

514
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,010
to be monitored For a reason that still
has not been made clear to me.

515
00:37:29,010 --> 00:37:33,987
I just— I think we need to step back and
really pare this down to what is truly

516
00:37:33,987 --> 00:37:39,154
necessary to preserve things and yet gives
the citizens of Oak Hill the freedom to

517
00:37:39,154 --> 00:37:43,690
make decisions for their own property and
their own families. Thank you.

518
00:37:43,690 --> 00:37:49,820
Thank you. Okay. I'm going to ask you one
more question. I'll say it one more time.

519
00:37:49,820 --> 00:37:54,990
Yeah, I worked for a federal judge when I
first got out of law school.

520
00:37:54,990 --> 00:37:56,910
His name was Clure Morton.

521
00:37:56,910 --> 00:38:01,637
I don't know if any of you still remember
Judge Morton, but yes,

522
00:38:01,637 --> 00:38:04,000
my co-clerk recognized the name.

523
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,022
Anyway, he— when he put down the mallet,
when he put down the gavel,

524
00:38:09,022 --> 00:38:15,226
we had a room full of A courtroom full of
spectators came in for one particular case

525
00:38:15,226 --> 00:38:20,691
that everybody were all very interested
in, public interest kind of thing.

526
00:38:20,691 --> 00:38:25,123
And the first time there was applause, I'm
telling you what,

527
00:38:25,123 --> 00:38:28,742
I thought that they were all going to be
in jail.

528
00:38:28,742 --> 00:38:31,548
So Judge Morton didn't put up with it.

529
00:38:31,548 --> 00:38:35,758
So I'm being— I'm being— I'm being— trying
to be lenient,

530
00:38:35,758 --> 00:38:41,149
but please just let us keep on going
without applause. Thank you. So next

531
00:38:41,149 --> 00:38:41,666
without applause. Thank you. So next
person.

532
00:38:41,666 --> 00:38:43,291
Love to hear from you.

533
00:38:43,291 --> 00:38:46,112
My name is John Patterson.

534
00:38:46,112 --> 00:38:52,949
I live at 926 Van Leer Drive, and I've
been there for 28 years.

535
00:38:52,949 --> 00:39:00,545
I really appreciate the effort and time
that the commissioners and Oak

536
00:39:00,545 --> 00:39:04,885
Hill— City of Oak Hill is put into this.

537
00:39:04,885 --> 00:39:13,024
It's a— no good deed goes unpunished. And
situations change, cities change.

538
00:39:13,024 --> 00:39:20,294
I've been in construction for over 50
years, 3 different countries.

539
00:39:20,294 --> 00:39:27,022
I'm a general contractor, commercial,
industrial, residential.

540
00:39:27,022 --> 00:39:31,037
We develop property and own property.

541
00:39:31,037 --> 00:39:32,186
Right.

542
00:39:33,746 --> 00:39:37,010
This is a standard issue that comes up and
up.

543
00:39:37,010 --> 00:39:40,983
And everyone says, oh, I want all the
freedom I can get.

544
00:39:40,983 --> 00:39:44,389
Well, the better and more valuable the
property,

545
00:39:44,389 --> 00:39:47,014
the more restrictions that are on it.

546
00:39:47,014 --> 00:39:52,548
And it's because of time and issues that
keep coming up that someone says, oh,

547
00:39:52,548 --> 00:39:57,302
I didn't know you could build an 8-foot
fence around your property.

548
00:39:57,302 --> 00:40:02,553
And then there's a big discussion and they
put a restriction on the fence.

549
00:40:02,553 --> 00:40:08,158
You can do anything you want if you go to
Somalia, but you go to New York City,

550
00:40:08,158 --> 00:40:12,273
Belle Meade, you're going to have
restrictions everywhere.

551
00:40:12,273 --> 00:40:16,530
And that's what keeps property values up,
believe it or not.

552
00:40:16,530 --> 00:40:20,574
If you want freedom to do what you want,
go to Donaldson.

553
00:40:20,574 --> 00:40:25,399
You can put an 18-car garage there. You
cannot do that in this city.

554
00:40:25,399 --> 00:40:27,953
You cannot have density in the city.

555
00:40:27,953 --> 00:40:33,771
Everything you guys do is a restriction on
my rights to do whatever I want with my

556
00:40:33,771 --> 00:40:36,539
property. That's the whole code you do.

557
00:40:36,539 --> 00:40:41,009
It sets an understanding on how to do
business within the city.

558
00:40:41,009 --> 00:40:46,117
You can't put 2 houses on a lot here.
Well, that's a restriction on your

559
00:40:46,117 --> 00:40:46,685
Well, that's a restriction on your
ability.

560
00:40:46,685 --> 00:40:49,523
And the issue with fences in particular,

561
00:40:49,523 --> 00:40:55,057
as opposed to anything that comes before
the board, is when you build a fence,

562
00:40:55,057 --> 00:40:59,598
your neighbours get a fence whether
Whether they like it or not.

563
00:40:59,598 --> 00:41:01,088
That is a real issue.

564
00:41:01,088 --> 00:41:06,906
Now, if I add a bathroom to my property or
I add a garage, you don't get a garage.

565
00:41:06,906 --> 00:41:11,589
But with a fence, if I put an 8-foot fence
all around my property,

566
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:14,285
all my neighbours get an 8-foot fence.

567
00:41:14,285 --> 00:41:19,394
And therefore, there is an implied
understanding what is there going to—

568
00:41:19,394 --> 00:41:23,509
there needs to be some guidelines on what
needs to happen.

569
00:41:23,509 --> 00:41:28,688
And when you put up a fence, And it is
within code. It is for perpetuity.

570
00:41:28,688 --> 00:41:30,817
And we've been there 30 years,

571
00:41:30,817 --> 00:41:34,648
and you could have a fence on that line
for 100 years.

572
00:41:34,648 --> 00:41:38,976
So this is not just about, I want all the
freedoms I can get.

573
00:41:38,976 --> 00:41:44,511
If you go to a fancy neighborhood, you're
going to have a ton of restrictions.

574
00:41:44,511 --> 00:41:46,214
It's just the way it is.

575
00:41:46,214 --> 00:41:50,471
And I spoke with passion about this thing
a number of times.

576
00:41:50,471 --> 00:41:53,380
It is the front yards where if you fence,

577
00:41:53,380 --> 00:41:58,559
you will have a really impact on the whole
landscape of the whole street.

578
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:01,823
In the backyard, when you're private, you
can—

579
00:42:01,823 --> 00:42:03,609
I'm sorry.

580
00:42:05,942 --> 00:42:09,364
You can— there is a requirement for dogs'
privacy.

581
00:42:09,364 --> 00:42:13,608
The front yard is the streetscape, which
is open to everybody.

582
00:42:13,608 --> 00:42:16,551
As we used to say when we designed
gardens,

583
00:42:16,551 --> 00:42:20,452
it is the connection between your property
and the world.

584
00:42:20,452 --> 00:42:25,380
Also, one of the things I used to do and
train with is the police force.

585
00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:30,924
And a fenced yard, a back fenced yard, or
Although you think you keep people out,

586
00:42:30,924 --> 00:42:35,578
when someone— when we do home invasions,
you run into your backyard,

587
00:42:35,578 --> 00:42:39,000
they will get you because you cannot run
anywhere.

588
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,407
If you've got an open backyard, you can
get to neighbours, you can get to help.

589
00:42:44,407 --> 00:42:50,020
Having done that in a number of precincts,
a fence you think will keep people out,

590
00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:52,415
but it stops you from getting away.

591
00:42:52,415 --> 00:42:56,248
And having— on a home invasion— And the
training we did—

592
00:42:56,248 --> 00:43:00,423
Is you always want to leave. You want to
leave your premises.

593
00:43:00,423 --> 00:43:04,461
Don't stand there and guard it. Leave your
premises and go.

594
00:43:04,461 --> 00:43:06,309
Everything can be replaced.

595
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:10,690
And by fencing it in, you put an 8-foot
fence around your house,

596
00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:12,127
you're going nowhere.

597
00:43:12,127 --> 00:43:15,549
So while it is considered— stops people
coming in,

598
00:43:15,549 --> 00:43:20,477
it also stops people from going out. And
that is a major safety concern.

599
00:43:20,477 --> 00:43:22,325
And I appreciate your time.

600
00:43:22,325 --> 00:43:22,517
Thank you.

601
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:25,647
I appreciate your effort on this
difficult—

602
00:43:25,647 --> 00:43:29,266
every code is going to tick somebody off,
it just is.

603
00:43:29,926 --> 00:43:31,520
Thank you. Thank you.

604
00:43:33,549 --> 00:43:39,220
Thank you. Good evening. Austin McMullen,
955 Greerland Drive. Drive.

605
00:43:39,220 --> 00:43:45,712
I agree with many of the comments that
have been made expressing concerns about

606
00:43:45,712 --> 00:43:45,959
have been made expressing concerns about
the

607
00:43:45,959 --> 00:43:52,369
ordinance. The gentleman who lives on
Glendale Lane mentioned that there is an

608
00:43:52,369 --> 00:43:56,725
existing ordinance already that's one
paragraph long,

609
00:43:56,725 --> 00:44:03,382
and so nobody nobody is arguing that there
shouldn't be some sort of restriction.

610
00:44:03,382 --> 00:44:09,299
There is a restriction in place, and part
of that is that it limits any.

611
00:44:09,299 --> 00:44:14,395
Fence to 6 feet. So there's already that
restriction in place.

612
00:44:14,395 --> 00:44:20,394
But you're hearing a lot of people who are
concerned about going further,

613
00:44:20,394 --> 00:44:24,668
which is what this several-page-long
ordinance does.

614
00:44:24,668 --> 00:44:29,763
I know for me, I'm concerned about the
opaqueness requirement.

615
00:44:29,763 --> 00:44:31,900
50% has to be see-through.

616
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:37,242
The height restriction and the complete
prohibition on Thank you.

617
00:44:37,242 --> 00:44:39,872
I think all of those go too far,

618
00:44:39,872 --> 00:44:46,200
and it seems like a lot of other people
who are here tonight agree with that.

619
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,625
One other point that I would make is that
this proposed ordinance,

620
00:44:51,625 --> 00:44:55,487
it increases the burdens both on the
residents,

621
00:44:55,487 --> 00:45:02,226
but it also increases the burdens on the
city because it is It is going to require

622
00:45:02,226 --> 00:45:02,309
city because it is It is going to require
a

623
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:08,226
lot more permitting and hearings and
things like that to take place, BZA

624
00:45:08,226 --> 00:45:08,966
things like that to take place, BZA
hearings.

625
00:45:08,966 --> 00:45:15,705
The city zoning official and city staff
are going to have to do a lot more work on

626
00:45:15,705 --> 00:45:19,156
permitting of things under this ordinance.

627
00:45:19,156 --> 00:45:23,266
And, you know, you've got a limited staff
already.

628
00:45:23,266 --> 00:45:30,087
I don't think you want to be imposing more
restrictions on them for something that—

629
00:45:30,087 --> 00:45:30,168
Yes.

630
00:45:31,518 --> 00:45:33,904
You know, I think a lot of people are
against.

631
00:45:33,904 --> 00:45:37,639
So my recommendation would be to, to, uh,
to not move forward with this.

632
00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:39,922
I know y'all have put a lot of time into
it.

633
00:45:40,534 --> 00:45:45,163
Uh, and I respect that and I appreciate
all of your efforts.

634
00:45:45,163 --> 00:45:50,485
Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank
you. Uh, next, next person.

635
00:45:50,485 --> 00:45:53,494
Do we have someone who wishes to speak?

636
00:45:56,099 --> 00:45:59,384
I wouldn't be last.

637
00:45:59,384 --> 00:46:02,720
You may be.

638
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:07,572
My name is Vicki

639
00:46:07,572 --> 00:46:10,301
McNamara.

640
00:46:10,542 --> 00:46:16,222
I live at 4621 Franklin Pike, and I have
been here as of August 1st, 35 years.

641
00:46:16,222 --> 00:46:21,319
I look around the room, a lot of you are
in the same bracket Age-wise,

642
00:46:21,319 --> 00:46:25,396
kind of with me. Cities do change. Our
city is changing.

643
00:46:25,396 --> 00:46:30,784
It's interesting to see who's here
tonight, and a lot of the newcomers are

644
00:46:30,784 --> 00:46:31,076
tonight, and a lot of the newcomers are
not.

645
00:46:31,076 --> 00:46:34,571
That's fine. I want to keep it to one— 2
things.

646
00:46:34,571 --> 00:46:40,396
6-foot privacy fences, we already have a
restriction, and I think that's enough.

647
00:46:40,396 --> 00:46:45,493
I've talked to David and I've talked to
Winston, they know how I feel.

648
00:46:45,493 --> 00:46:48,333
I don't know whether it matters or not.

649
00:46:48,333 --> 00:46:52,483
And the aspect of being opaque, I think
that's important.

650
00:46:52,483 --> 00:46:56,124
I took some notes for things that people
had said.

651
00:46:56,124 --> 00:46:59,837
They talk about a fence is boundary, it's
security,

652
00:46:59,837 --> 00:47:05,590
it's protection for your children and your
dogs. It also protects the wildlife.

653
00:47:05,590 --> 00:47:07,774
I have a 6-foot privacy fence.

654
00:47:07,774 --> 00:47:13,599
I had a 6-foot privacy fence back in 1991
when I bought the house. It was there.

655
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:18,405
I've repaired it and replaced it over the
years, but it was there.

656
00:47:18,405 --> 00:47:21,755
It was there to make my gardens look
prettier,

657
00:47:21,755 --> 00:47:25,541
which I've tried to maintain over the last
35 years.

658
00:47:25,541 --> 00:47:30,420
So we already have a fence restriction,
and having an opaque fence,

659
00:47:30,420 --> 00:47:35,225
if you drive up and down, you're going to
see I see a lot of them.

660
00:47:35,225 --> 00:47:40,468
There are stone walls. There are walls
covered. There are wooden fences.

661
00:47:40,468 --> 00:47:45,492
There are— there's so many. Go down
Franklin Road. You can't see any.

662
00:47:45,492 --> 00:47:50,880
My 2 doors down from me, you can't see in
the house, anywhere in the yard,

663
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,487
because there's a huge wall. And they've
even put black paper over the gates.

664
00:47:56,487 --> 00:48:01,366
So for their construction that's been
going on for 2 years. Anyway.

665
00:48:01,366 --> 00:48:04,278
That is another subject for another day.

666
00:48:04,278 --> 00:48:10,103
Regarding the bucolic views, if I look in
one direction, I have a privacy fence.

667
00:48:10,103 --> 00:48:16,001
The reason I have it is because I don't
want to see what the neighbors are doing,

668
00:48:16,001 --> 00:48:21,754
particularly. Sometimes they've been
interesting and I didn't want to see them.

669
00:48:21,754 --> 00:48:27,142
Now I don't want to see them because
they're building a 15,000-square-foot

670
00:48:27,142 --> 00:48:27,579
they're building a 15,000-square-foot
house.

671
00:48:27,579 --> 00:48:29,909
That's 15,000-square-foot right.

672
00:48:29,909 --> 00:48:35,443
house next door to me, and I'm going to
have construction again for 2 years.

673
00:48:35,443 --> 00:48:40,831
I can turn the other way, and because I
own the next 7 acres, it's pretty.

674
00:48:40,831 --> 00:48:43,234
My neighbors are really far away.

675
00:48:43,234 --> 00:48:47,749
You know, the best fence is space, but we
can't all have that.

676
00:48:47,749 --> 00:48:53,719
So I don't think there's anything wrong
with us having a 6-foot fence and it being

677
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,030
opaque. It's okay.

678
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:55,367
Thank you.

679
00:48:55,753 --> 00:48:57,879
You can still see the world.

680
00:48:57,879 --> 00:49:04,029
So I would recommend that y'all table this
or at least change parts of it so that

681
00:49:04,029 --> 00:49:09,952
it's— apparently the vast majority of
people don't mind having a 6-foot fence.

682
00:49:09,952 --> 00:49:16,178
And they live here and they love 4-plank
fences and they love lush landscaping and

683
00:49:16,178 --> 00:49:18,835
we love the diversity of neighbors.

684
00:49:18,835 --> 00:49:23,619
So I would like to consideration for those
thoughts. Thank you.

685
00:49:23,619 --> 00:49:28,585
Thank you very much. Yes, sir.

686
00:49:28,585 --> 00:49:30,343
My name is Matt Hearn.

687
00:49:30,343 --> 00:49:36,498
My wife Mary and I have lived at 895 Van
Leer Drive for the past 27 years and

688
00:49:36,498 --> 00:49:36,977
Leer Drive for the past 27 years and
raised

689
00:49:36,977 --> 00:49:43,451
our 2 sons here. As the discussion tonight
has shown, this is not a simple issue.

690
00:49:43,451 --> 00:49:45,050
This is complicated.

691
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:49,286
Living on Franklin Road on an estate that
is 4, 5, 6,

692
00:49:49,286 --> 00:49:55,520
or 10 acres is a very different thing from
living on Van Leer Drive on 1 acre.

693
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:01,754
There are different considerations for
those 2 different areas of the place we

694
00:50:01,754 --> 00:50:02,074
those 2 different areas of the place we
call

695
00:50:02,074 --> 00:50:07,589
Oak Hill. They are 2 very different
neighborhoods with very different

696
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:08,308
neighborhoods with very different
concerns.

697
00:50:08,308 --> 00:50:14,622
I can't afford a fence-free vista. Because
my lot is only about 100 yards wide.

698
00:50:14,622 --> 00:50:21,016
And what my— what someone mentioned about
the fact that if my neighbor puts up a

699
00:50:21,016 --> 00:50:27,410
fence from his back line all the way down
the side of our property line into the

700
00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:33,485
ditch and it's 6 or 8 feet high, I have a
6 or 8-foot-high fence to look at.

701
00:50:33,485 --> 00:50:38,600
And if my neighbor on the other side puts
one up, I'm fenced in.

702
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:38,795
Right.

703
00:50:39,296 --> 00:50:43,023
I didn't want a fence, but now I have to
live with 2 of them.

704
00:50:43,023 --> 00:50:45,161
And when I pull out of my driveway,

705
00:50:45,161 --> 00:50:50,292
I have to pull out far enough to see if I
can see what's coming over the hill around

706
00:50:50,292 --> 00:50:55,057
the fence. Children who are playing in the
driveway can't see the cars coming.

707
00:50:55,057 --> 00:51:00,128
My point is, this is a complicated issue
and Oak Hill is not a single neighborhood.

708
00:51:00,128 --> 00:51:04,343
It's a set of different neighborhoods,
each which has its own issues.

709
00:51:04,343 --> 00:51:04,487
Thank you.

710
00:51:04,696 --> 00:51:07,462
its own different kinds of character.

711
00:51:07,462 --> 00:51:13,442
I think the fact that we are having this
discussion is an attempt to address the

712
00:51:13,442 --> 00:51:19,571
fact that we don't all feel the same about
what our particular neighborhood should

713
00:51:19,571 --> 00:51:25,177
look like and how it should be protected
in order to maintain the kind of a

714
00:51:25,177 --> 00:51:29,288
neighborhood it is. When I walk around my
neighborhood,

715
00:51:29,288 --> 00:51:35,567
I don't walk around looking at the tops of
the trees because I'll fall into a ditch,

716
00:51:35,567 --> 00:51:41,846
but I walk around looking at the beautiful
yards. I see my neighbors on their porch.

717
00:51:41,846 --> 00:51:47,901
We wave at each other. Our children come
out and play. We walk our dogs together.

718
00:51:47,901 --> 00:51:52,162
If I lived on Overton Lee or if I lived on
Franklin Pike,

719
00:51:52,162 --> 00:51:55,750
I wouldn't be walking the neighborhood
that way.

720
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:59,786
It's a different world, different kinds of
properties.

721
00:51:59,786 --> 00:52:04,794
And so I think this is not a simple issue
of freedom or no freedom.

722
00:52:04,794 --> 00:52:07,934
It's certainly not an HOA or no HOA issue.

723
00:52:07,934 --> 00:52:13,540
It's an issue that's complex because we
have a complex city with different,

724
00:52:13,540 --> 00:52:17,726
differently flavored, differently layered
neighborhoods.

725
00:52:17,726 --> 00:52:22,286
And a restriction, although it's
complicated and aggravating,

726
00:52:22,286 --> 00:52:26,546
And it's doomed not to make everybody
happy all the time.

727
00:52:26,546 --> 00:52:32,452
An ordinance that protects the specific
neighborhood qualities of the different

728
00:52:32,452 --> 00:52:32,676
neighborhood qualities of the different
Oak

729
00:52:32,676 --> 00:52:38,506
Hill neighborhoods is unfortunately
something we need because without any kind

730
00:52:38,506 --> 00:52:38,656
something we need because without any kind
of

731
00:52:38,656 --> 00:52:40,525
more complex restriction,

732
00:52:40,525 --> 00:52:45,084
my neighborhood is going to start to look
like Franklin Road.

733
00:52:45,084 --> 00:52:50,915
That's not a— That's not the kind of a
world those of us in our particular Oak

734
00:52:50,915 --> 00:52:51,214
world those of us in our particular Oak
Hill

735
00:52:51,214 --> 00:52:53,381
neighborhood want to live in.

736
00:52:53,381 --> 00:52:59,212
On the other hand, I recognize absolutely
that if I did live on Franklin Road,

737
00:52:59,212 --> 00:53:04,444
I would want those kinds of fences. My lot
is a different kind of lot.

738
00:53:04,444 --> 00:53:09,079
I'm not looking for a neighborhood if I
live on Franklin Road.

739
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:12,218
I'm looking for a large piece of property.

740
00:53:12,218 --> 00:53:17,600
In my neighborhood, I'm looking place to
raise my kids and walk my dogs.

741
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,786
That's what's really making your job
really complicated,

742
00:53:21,786 --> 00:53:27,990
and I hope that you will not assume that
no regulation is better regulation or that

743
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:30,158
one size fits all. Thank you.

744
00:53:30,158 --> 00:53:35,948
Okay. Thank you. Okay. Yes, sir.

745
00:53:35,948 --> 00:53:40,759
Hi. My name is Harold Lambert. I live at
1024 Gateway Lane. Actually, I'm a newbie.

746
00:53:40,759 --> 00:53:42,614
I've been in here about 3 years,

747
00:53:42,614 --> 00:53:46,382
and I've been in your position in several
communities I lived in,

748
00:53:46,382 --> 00:53:49,744
and I think it's important to consider
what is being said.

749
00:53:49,744 --> 00:53:53,106
I think this turnout says a lot about the
overall concern.

750
00:53:53,106 --> 00:53:57,279
I think one thing is interesting is that I
think fences are complicated.

751
00:53:57,279 --> 00:54:00,641
I don't think there is necessarily a
broad-based solution,

752
00:54:00,641 --> 00:54:03,597
but it seems like to me that this solution
doesn't.

753
00:54:03,597 --> 00:54:06,379
I'm not sure what problem we're trying to
solve.

754
00:54:06,379 --> 00:54:09,278
I couldn't see that in the information
that I saw.

755
00:54:09,278 --> 00:54:12,640
And my wife, who is a very intelligent
woman, always says,

756
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,596
what problem are we trying to solve?
What's broken?

757
00:54:15,596 --> 00:54:18,320
And maybe that would help understand, you
know,

758
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,581
what's driving the broad-based changes.

759
00:54:20,581 --> 00:54:25,102
And I think there's been a lot of concerns
brought up tonight about, you know,

760
00:54:25,102 --> 00:54:28,174
different fences that in some communities
don't work.

761
00:54:28,174 --> 00:54:32,927
I think Visibility when you're exiting a
property certainly can be a factor if the

762
00:54:32,927 --> 00:54:34,898
fence is, you know, blocking that.

763
00:54:34,898 --> 00:54:39,419
But does that mean someone can't have a
fence in their yard that's only 3 feet

764
00:54:39,419 --> 00:54:39,709
fence in their yard that's only 3 feet
high?

765
00:54:39,709 --> 00:54:43,013
That peculiar— is very peculiar to me, the
3-foot height.

766
00:54:43,013 --> 00:54:47,071
It seems like someone decided
aesthetically that was what was going to

767
00:54:47,071 --> 00:54:47,650
aesthetically that was what was going to
look good.

768
00:54:47,650 --> 00:54:51,650
And I drove around and measured a bunch of
fences before I came here,

769
00:54:51,650 --> 00:54:54,490
and it's interesting. I have an acre and a
third.

770
00:54:54,490 --> 00:54:57,852
A lot of my neighbors across from me will
2 acres or more.

771
00:54:57,852 --> 00:55:01,794
And it does seem weird to me, why would
they have a differentiation?

772
00:55:01,794 --> 00:55:06,663
I think on impervious, you know, land and
that kind of stuff, it makes sense, right?

773
00:55:06,663 --> 00:55:08,286
But when it comes to fences,

774
00:55:08,286 --> 00:55:12,981
why should they be able to have a fence in
their front yard that's different than

775
00:55:12,981 --> 00:55:16,111
mine when I look right across the street
at it, right?

776
00:55:16,111 --> 00:55:17,734
The other thing is, I think,

777
00:55:17,734 --> 00:55:22,313
is interesting is that I think dogs and
privacy and personal security, I think,

778
00:55:22,313 --> 00:55:26,081
is really hard to measure broad-based on a
piece of paper. Right?

779
00:55:26,081 --> 00:55:29,964
Some people, if they feel more secure in a
different kind of fence,

780
00:55:29,964 --> 00:55:32,863
I think that's important to kind of
consider that.

781
00:55:32,863 --> 00:55:36,804
You know, I have an iron fence and it's
not only expensive to do it,

782
00:55:36,804 --> 00:55:40,340
I think it was $30,000 or something, but
in addition to that,

783
00:55:40,340 --> 00:55:44,861
I spent another $5,000 because it didn't
keep skunks out or small dogs, right?

784
00:55:44,861 --> 00:55:48,745
So the cost is a factor. Is it, you know,
acceptable for everybody?

785
00:55:48,745 --> 00:55:49,019
Yes.

786
00:55:49,442 --> 00:55:52,258
I think the cost has been brought up a
little bit tonight,

787
00:55:52,258 --> 00:55:54,929
and I think that's something that's fair
to weigh that.

788
00:55:54,929 --> 00:55:55,900
And maybe, you know,

789
00:55:55,900 --> 00:55:59,445
a good policy would be to focus on quality
and aesthetics that says, hey,

790
00:55:59,445 --> 00:56:02,116
if there's deterioration of a fence, is
that— you know,

791
00:56:02,116 --> 00:56:04,689
I don't know if we're already addressing
that or not,

792
00:56:04,689 --> 00:56:07,263
but maybe that's part of what a good fence
policy is,

793
00:56:07,263 --> 00:56:10,662
is that if we're concerned about how they
look and that kind of stuff,

794
00:56:10,662 --> 00:56:13,867
that people are required to keep, you
know, keep maintaining them.

795
00:56:13,867 --> 00:56:14,829
Thank you.

796
00:56:16,290 --> 00:56:23,081
I did make a list of some fences I thought
were interesting on Suwannee and at like

797
00:56:23,081 --> 00:56:29,545
1143 Suwannee Road. That fence has been
there probably 50-some years, and it's—

798
00:56:29,545 --> 00:56:35,273
I don't know if anyone lives at that
house, but it's a beautiful home,

799
00:56:35,273 --> 00:56:41,082
but it's half stone and half iron at the
top, right? And it looks fine.

800
00:56:41,082 --> 00:56:42,719
It's 48 inches high.

801
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,010
And it makes me think, well,

802
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:51,147
why would someone not be able to do
something similar that would look nice,

803
00:56:51,147 --> 00:56:51,638
something similar that would look nice,
right?

804
00:56:51,638 --> 00:56:54,501
Why does it have to only be 3 feet?

805
00:56:54,501 --> 00:57:00,965
So I'm struggling with the 3 feet number,
especially when I think we live in a,

806
00:57:00,965 --> 00:57:07,020
you know, sometimes where people are
trying to maintain dogs into an area,

807
00:57:07,020 --> 00:57:13,648
and I'm not sure if 3 feet does it for
everyone's security and enclosure of their

808
00:57:13,648 --> 00:57:18,803
property. So I just think this needs to be
looked at some more,

809
00:57:18,803 --> 00:57:25,431
and I would appreciate you going back to
the table and thinking about it a little

810
00:57:25,431 --> 00:57:30,831
bit more before we go forward with it.
Thank you. Okay, thank you.

811
00:57:30,831 --> 00:57:35,986
I'm Stephanie McGurk. I live at 905 Van
Leer. Stephanie McGurk.

812
00:57:35,986 --> 00:57:42,122
Stephanie McGurk, 905 Van Leer. Wendell
and I have lived here for 36 years.

813
00:57:42,122 --> 00:57:48,914
And as of today, I have a fence because my
neighbors decided to put in a fence real

814
00:57:48,914 --> 00:57:52,596
quick before it was no longer legal, I
guess.

815
00:57:52,596 --> 00:57:58,405
There haven't been any front yard fences
in our neighborhood until now.

816
00:57:58,405 --> 00:58:01,842
What is the problem we're trying to solve?

817
00:58:01,842 --> 00:58:08,470
Perhaps the problem we're trying to solve
has to do with what is it going to look

818
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:14,361
When the next neighbor and the next
neighbor decide to fence their front

819
00:58:14,361 --> 00:58:14,852
neighbor decide to fence their front
yards,

820
00:58:14,852 --> 00:58:19,107
this is a tall fence. It is a solid wood
tall fence.

821
00:58:19,107 --> 00:58:25,652
It looks to be heading in that direction.
It just—they just started building it.

822
00:58:25,652 --> 00:58:32,280
When we moved here. We saw the beauty of
this open— all the— it's like Matt said,

823
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:38,744
your front yards, your front yards are all
this contiguous place of, of shared,

824
00:58:38,744 --> 00:58:43,653
and it's shared community. It's, it's,
it's being neighbors.

825
00:58:43,653 --> 00:58:48,236
And it's also just the rest of what do you
see when you,

826
00:58:48,236 --> 00:58:50,527
when you look at your space.

827
00:58:50,527 --> 00:58:53,309
Backyards are not so much visible,

828
00:58:53,309 --> 00:58:59,936
but the front yards are this one piece of
beautiful shared property that bring us

829
00:58:59,936 --> 00:59:02,064
together and create value.

830
00:59:02,064 --> 00:59:07,546
It's like we came into this beautiful
place and we, we bought this,

831
00:59:07,546 --> 00:59:11,146
this house that nobody had made an offer
on.

832
00:59:11,146 --> 00:59:17,365
We were really happy that that we were the
first ones who wanted this house,

833
00:59:17,365 --> 00:59:22,356
because what we saw was almost like a
forest we're living in.

834
00:59:22,356 --> 00:59:26,529
And so you can't have— you can't have that
anymore.

835
00:59:26,529 --> 00:59:32,747
You can't have what Van Leer Drive has
been for all these years if these big

836
00:59:32,747 --> 00:59:33,238
been for all these years if these big
fences

837
00:59:33,238 --> 00:59:39,375
are going to be cutting— cutting
everybody's yards into these little boxes.

838
00:59:39,375 --> 00:59:40,627
Thank you.

839
00:59:41,621 --> 00:59:46,691
It's just not the same place. And it's not
the beautiful landscape.

840
00:59:46,691 --> 00:59:49,718
It's something completely Green Hills-y.

841
00:59:49,718 --> 00:59:52,820
You just— you can go live some— you know,

842
00:59:52,820 --> 00:59:58,799
you can go live in these kinds of places
if you want front yards that are boxed

843
00:59:58,799 --> 01:00:04,171
in. But if you come to Oak Hill, you get a
big kind of piece of forest.

844
01:00:04,171 --> 01:00:05,836
You get to live in it.

845
01:00:05,836 --> 01:00:06,175
Yeah.

846
01:00:07,181 --> 01:00:14,629
And as of today, I lose that. And I guess
it's grandfathered in.

847
01:00:14,629 --> 01:00:21,728
I guess some grandfathers are younger than
others. But, yeah.

848
01:00:21,728 --> 01:00:22,310
Okay.

849
01:00:22,407 --> 01:00:22,890
Thank you.

850
01:00:25,389 --> 01:00:31,258
Yes. I'm Theresa George. I live at 926 Van
Leer Drive. I agree with Stephanie.

851
01:00:31,258 --> 01:00:34,794
We have a street that has no front yard
fences.

852
01:00:34,794 --> 01:00:39,534
We are against— my husband and I are
against front yard fences.

853
01:00:39,534 --> 01:00:45,178
We feel like if you want a fenced-in
compound that's fenced all the way in,

854
01:00:45,178 --> 01:00:46,758
go to Northumberland.

855
01:00:46,758 --> 01:00:52,551
There's lots of places in Nashville and
all around Middle Tennessee that have

856
01:00:52,551 --> 01:00:52,928
all around Middle Tennessee that have
that.

857
01:00:52,928 --> 01:00:55,862
But we really wanted front yard fences.

858
01:00:55,862 --> 01:01:00,301
A lot of our neighbors all over Oak Hill
feel the same way.

859
01:01:00,301 --> 01:01:02,559
from north in Oak Hill, south,

860
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:08,728
and over 200 people said that they wanted
to keep no front yard fences and no side

861
01:01:08,728 --> 01:01:12,490
yard fences because they want to keep what
we had.

862
01:01:12,490 --> 01:01:14,372
And you have to consider,

863
01:01:14,372 --> 01:01:19,714
if you don't have an ordinance that
protects against front yard fences,

864
01:01:19,714 --> 01:01:25,733
you have to look at not the first house
that does it or the But what is Oak Hill

865
01:01:25,733 --> 01:01:31,752
going to look like 20 years from now? What
is the 50th fence going to look like?

866
01:01:31,752 --> 01:01:35,815
Because now it will be, you know, just a
free-for-all.

867
01:01:35,815 --> 01:01:41,007
And the studies also show that
neighborhood and community is built by

868
01:01:41,007 --> 01:01:41,835
neighborhood and community is built by
having open

869
01:01:41,835 --> 01:01:46,048
front yards. And also as a security issue,
for security,

870
01:01:46,048 --> 01:01:49,209
studies show that it's not done by fences.

871
01:01:49,209 --> 01:01:54,551
It's done by surveillance cameras and
people have cameras up, you know,

872
01:01:54,551 --> 01:02:00,269
for their houses and that if you're going
to rob somebody or you're going to

873
01:02:00,269 --> 01:02:06,514
burglarize a home, that they look at the
surveillance cameras more than the fences.

874
01:02:06,514 --> 01:02:09,387
So thank you. Thank you.

875
01:02:12,387 --> 01:02:12,837
All right.

876
01:02:12,837 --> 01:02:16,244
One more time to make a suggestion. No.

877
01:02:18,132 --> 01:02:24,650
Let's make sure everybody else has spoken
once. But yes, yes, you may.

878
01:02:24,650 --> 01:02:31,167
All right. Who's next? I know we haven't
heard from— there's somebody.

879
01:02:31,167 --> 01:02:33,978
You've heard from me before.

880
01:02:33,978 --> 01:02:38,996
First of all, let me say my name is Trevor
Howell.

881
01:02:38,996 --> 01:02:43,814
I live at 4721 Sewanee Road and have since
1981.

882
01:02:43,814 --> 01:02:47,528
I've loved it, raised a family there.

883
01:02:47,528 --> 01:02:52,447
I've given my spiel before this board
previously,

884
01:02:52,447 --> 01:02:55,458
so I won't go on and drone on,

885
01:02:55,458 --> 01:03:02,785
but I think maybe emphasizing some points
may be proper just because some

886
01:03:02,785 --> 01:03:08,005
of the people may be new and not heard
some of this.

887
01:03:08,005 --> 01:03:15,332
But a petition was filed In early July
with over 220 people that were not

888
01:03:15,332 --> 01:03:19,247
in favor of allowing front yard fences.

889
01:03:19,247 --> 01:03:26,675
Those 220 people are just as serious as
many of you are that want to leave

890
01:03:26,675 --> 01:03:33,701
that open. Okay, so I understand that. I
love America. I love freedom.

891
01:03:33,701 --> 01:03:41,229
But sometimes you have to have a little
regulation to keep things in order.

892
01:03:41,229 --> 01:03:46,449
And I've been here since 1981— 1985, I'm
sorry, '85.

893
01:03:46,449 --> 01:03:51,769
Mindy, you'll set me straight. That's a
lot of years.

894
01:03:51,769 --> 01:03:59,297
But what's a lot of years is this area was
developed 70-some-odd years ago.

895
01:03:59,297 --> 01:03:59,799
1970.

896
01:04:00,069 --> 01:04:02,199
years ago. Winston, you know this.

897
01:04:04,130 --> 01:04:06,495
Oak Hill didn't just happen.

898
01:04:06,495 --> 01:04:11,563
It was intentionally plotted out to be the
way it is, folks.

899
01:04:11,563 --> 01:04:17,983
It just didn't go pop, here we are, isn't
this great, now let's fence it in.

900
01:04:17,983 --> 01:04:20,264
The people, the developers,

901
01:04:20,264 --> 01:04:27,106
the founders of Gateway Acres and some
other neighborhoods The neighborhoods that

902
01:04:27,106 --> 01:04:33,357
all make up the city of Oak Hill had
definite plans about what they wanted

903
01:04:33,357 --> 01:04:33,779
definite plans about what they wanted
here.

904
01:04:33,779 --> 01:04:35,637
And when I moved here,

905
01:04:35,637 --> 01:04:41,719
I was absolutely just mesmerized by the
beauty of the hills of Oak Hill,

906
01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:48,055
Harpeth Hills. Changed my viewpoint about
where I wanted my family to live,

907
01:04:48,055 --> 01:04:53,545
and I got a house right on Suwannee Road
and love it to this day.

908
01:04:53,545 --> 01:05:00,134
I think what's happened is over these
years fences have started to appear more

909
01:05:00,134 --> 01:05:07,061
rapidly. For those who have lived here a
long time, we know that. We see it. Okay?

910
01:05:07,061 --> 01:05:13,565
It's not just You know, a chain-link fence
may be one thing you don't notice,

911
01:05:13,565 --> 01:05:17,873
but we're seeing very, very formidable
type fences.

912
01:05:17,873 --> 01:05:21,336
And I understand the reasoning behind it,

913
01:05:21,336 --> 01:05:26,235
but there are different interests that we
need to balance.

914
01:05:26,235 --> 01:05:29,699
You know, I've said this a million times,

915
01:05:29,699 --> 01:05:34,429
that the founders of New York City planned
Central Park.

916
01:05:34,429 --> 01:05:38,990
They could have had skyscrapers all over
Central Park.

917
01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:43,721
They leave— they left it wide open, folks,
for a reason.

918
01:05:43,721 --> 01:05:46,170
And these developers did too.

919
01:05:46,170 --> 01:05:53,266
And people who have purchased their homes
over the years, over decades, me included,

920
01:05:53,266 --> 01:05:59,010
have relied on that. We like that scheme
of development. We like it.

921
01:05:59,010 --> 01:06:03,318
Oak Hill can't be You know, it's just not
possible.

922
01:06:03,318 --> 01:06:10,075
So this board, this commission has the
arduous task of balancing those interests

923
01:06:10,075 --> 01:06:10,329
arduous task of balancing those interests
and

924
01:06:10,329 --> 01:06:16,411
doing the best they can with all the
factors that they have to weigh in.

925
01:06:16,411 --> 01:06:22,999
They hear you. They hear the other side.
They hear me too often on this issue.

926
01:06:22,999 --> 01:06:25,365
I think that's a good point.

927
01:06:25,365 --> 01:06:30,011
But I think they're taking the facts as
they have them,

928
01:06:30,011 --> 01:06:36,261
whether it's a 220-person petition saying
we don't want front yard fences,

929
01:06:36,261 --> 01:06:43,103
or someone that says, you know, I've got a
dog, I don't want them running around.

930
01:06:43,103 --> 01:06:46,820
Ever heard of invisible fencing? But
anyway.

931
01:06:46,820 --> 01:06:52,395
Ever heard of a German Shorthaired
Pointer? Runs right through it.

932
01:06:52,395 --> 01:06:59,237
No, I don't know how many of those I don't
think there are, but if there were 50,

933
01:06:59,237 --> 01:07:05,995
maybe it would be relevant. But one, I
don't know. But I see what you're saying.

934
01:07:05,995 --> 01:07:09,458
But we can't be everything to all people.

935
01:07:09,458 --> 01:07:13,259
And I just want to commend you all like I
do.

936
01:07:13,259 --> 01:07:19,933
And this manager right here, I'm going to
commend him for managing all of this.

937
01:07:19,933 --> 01:07:24,494
And thank you so much for all of your
volunteer hours.

938
01:07:24,494 --> 01:07:24,930
Thank you.

939
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,620
Non-paid hours. Thank you so much,

940
01:07:28,620 --> 01:07:33,636
and I apologize for that guy that
applauded back there.

941
01:07:33,636 --> 01:07:37,101
He was overzealous. Thank you so much.

942
01:07:37,101 --> 01:07:41,184
Thank you. All right, who's next?

943
01:07:41,184 --> 01:07:45,391
We'd love to hear from all of you.

944
01:07:45,391 --> 01:07:49,969
You came with something on your mind,

945
01:07:49,969 --> 01:07:56,650
so I'd love to hear from you. We all
would. All right.

946
01:07:56,650 --> 01:07:57,764
Yes, sir.

947
01:07:57,764 --> 01:08:05,318
I'm going to just say I'm Bill King. My
wife and I live at 3627 Rainbow Place.

948
01:08:05,318 --> 01:08:12,872
Bill King, K-I-N-G. And I think I can take
part of the responsibility for this

949
01:08:12,872 --> 01:08:19,555
thing for one reason. I've been on Rainbow
Place since December 1972.

950
01:08:19,555 --> 01:08:27,303
We had a neighbor 2 years ago put a fence
up with a building permit that all the

951
01:08:27,303 --> 01:08:29,627
paperwork was not clear.

952
01:08:29,627 --> 01:08:35,245
She didn't just put a fence up, she put it
up an easement.

953
01:08:35,245 --> 01:08:42,896
A shared driveway from the backyard to the
street right next door to our house.

954
01:08:42,896 --> 01:08:46,770
You go out your driveway, you can't see.

955
01:08:46,770 --> 01:08:51,225
She backed out her driveway, she couldn't
see.

956
01:08:51,225 --> 01:08:58,101
The girl on the other side that she
blocked her driveway could not see.

957
01:08:58,101 --> 01:09:05,946
It was a safety feature. It was a horrible
streetscape. She destroyed our street.

958
01:09:05,946 --> 01:09:13,500
These gentlemen and the building board
listened to me twice on the fence issue

959
01:09:13,500 --> 01:09:13,790
listened to me twice on the fence issue
and

960
01:09:13,790 --> 01:09:18,730
getting that fence down. It just settled
this year.

961
01:09:18,730 --> 01:09:24,541
It started in December of '24, and it just
settled in court.

962
01:09:24,541 --> 01:09:31,707
These gentlemen have listened to it. They
have rewritten this whole issue.

963
01:09:31,707 --> 01:09:36,744
Front yard fences with a 3 or 4-foot limit
are nice.

964
01:09:36,744 --> 01:09:44,201
When I moved here in '72, there was no
code except you're going to do it this

965
01:09:44,201 --> 01:09:44,588
code except you're going to do it this
way.

966
01:09:44,588 --> 01:09:49,624
And he remembers it, and some of these
gentlemen do.

967
01:09:49,624 --> 01:09:56,791
That new city The manager is gone. There
was nothing written. He said, Mr.

968
01:09:56,791 --> 01:10:04,636
King, you can have a 6-foot fence in the
back and nothing more than 3 feet in the

969
01:10:04,636 --> 01:10:12,287
front. No more. He stuck by that. I put 3
fences, 2 with him. It didn't change.

970
01:10:12,287 --> 01:10:18,970
These gentlemen have rewritten about 3
lines of fencing instructions.

971
01:10:18,970 --> 01:10:23,522
They deserve a lot of credit and a lot of
time.

972
01:10:23,522 --> 01:10:31,463
But I just want you to know that's how it
started and that's where all this really

973
01:10:31,463 --> 01:10:38,921
began because they got into it and they
were not aware of some of the fencing

974
01:10:38,921 --> 01:10:44,150
changes in Oak Hill and they have really
looked at it.

975
01:10:44,150 --> 01:10:51,414
So give them the credit that they deserve
at this time and I appreciate it.

976
01:10:51,414 --> 01:10:55,966
Thank you, sir, for listening to me. Thank
you.

977
01:10:56,018 --> 01:10:59,371
Thank you, Mr. King. Uh, Steve, that
sounds like a good idea.

978
01:10:59,371 --> 01:11:02,339
Just says the city manager decides what
the rules are.

979
01:11:02,452 --> 01:11:04,871
Well, you know, case-by-case basis.

980
01:11:04,871 --> 01:11:09,362
Yeah, um, if we get all this applause,
then it might be worth it.

981
01:11:11,931 --> 01:11:18,428
All right, who, who would like to speak

982
01:11:18,428 --> 01:11:22,593
next? Anybody? I got you.

983
01:11:22,593 --> 01:11:29,091
All right, everybody has had their say.

984
01:11:29,091 --> 01:11:33,589
Who wants to say something?

985
01:11:33,589 --> 01:11:39,420
All right, please come back to the—

986
01:11:39,420 --> 01:11:45,751
Podium for one, one second round here.

987
01:11:45,751 --> 01:11:50,567
Again, Miles McDonald. I live at 807
Forest Acres Drive.

988
01:11:50,567 --> 01:11:57,016
Um, listening to this tonight, uh, there's
a lot of crosscurrents going on,

989
01:11:57,016 --> 01:12:03,637
and the reason there are is because this
ordinance covers 3 different things.

990
01:12:03,637 --> 01:12:09,571
To simplify it, it covers It covers front
yards. It covers backyards.

991
01:12:09,571 --> 01:12:12,666
It covers retaining walls and walls.

992
01:12:12,666 --> 01:12:19,374
I haven't heard any pushback tonight about
restrictions on front yard fencing.

993
01:12:19,374 --> 01:12:24,017
There's safety issues with tall fences in
front yards.

994
01:12:24,017 --> 01:12:30,724
There are community issues with it in
terms of the character of neighborhoods,

995
01:12:30,724 --> 01:12:36,658
the become fenced-off compounds. There's
just not been much pushback.

996
01:12:36,658 --> 01:12:41,387
The pushback on this has been about
people's backyards.

997
01:12:41,387 --> 01:12:46,203
And the pushback primarily is in 2 things:
practicality,

998
01:12:46,203 --> 01:12:52,050
which comes down to 3 things: keeping
things in, keeping things out,

999
01:12:52,050 --> 01:12:58,586
obstructing a view, intentionally
obstructing a view. Leave the backyards at

1000
01:12:58,586 --> 01:12:59,188
obstructing a view. Leave the backyards at
6 feet.

1001
01:12:59,188 --> 01:13:03,745
If there's a real problem with galvanized
chain link,

1002
01:13:03,745 --> 01:13:08,303
require that it be vinyl coated and leave
it at that.

1003
01:13:08,303 --> 01:13:15,268
This would be a lot easier for there to be
a consensus in this crowd if the front

1004
01:13:15,268 --> 01:13:22,233
yard fencing requirements or restrictions
were based upon safety and character of

1005
01:13:22,233 --> 01:13:26,705
the neighborhood in terms of the sense of
community,

1006
01:13:26,705 --> 01:13:32,896
not so much that they all look just the
same, to quote Malvina Reynolds,

1007
01:13:32,896 --> 01:13:37,798
and leave it at that. That makes sense to
a lot of folks.

1008
01:13:37,798 --> 01:13:44,591
But these— the low height requirement and
the opacity requirements for backyard

1009
01:13:44,591 --> 01:13:49,837
fencing is— seems to have been the biggest
source of concern.

1010
01:13:49,837 --> 01:13:55,254
So I would just like to leave you with
that thought. Thank you.

1011
01:13:55,254 --> 01:13:57,078
Okay. Thank you. All right.

1012
01:13:57,078 --> 01:14:02,415
Leave the door open here for a few more
minutes or a few seconds maybe I should

1013
01:14:02,415 --> 01:14:02,618
minutes or a few seconds maybe I should
say

1014
01:14:02,618 --> 01:14:07,617
if somebody has got something they would
like to say. Anybody? Yes, ma'am.

1015
01:14:07,617 --> 01:14:15,239
My name is Mary Hearn and I live at 895
Van Ness I'm not going to talk as long as

1016
01:14:15,239 --> 01:14:15,427
Van Ness I'm not going to talk as long as
my

1017
01:14:15,427 --> 01:14:23,049
husband did. I'm so surprised I actually
agree with you. Why? I'm not a criminal.

1018
01:14:23,049 --> 01:14:29,825
As I listened to everybody, it did seem to
me that it's the front yards.

1019
01:14:29,825 --> 01:14:31,801
It's the front yards.

1020
01:14:31,801 --> 01:14:37,258
Backyards, really different circumstances
for most people,

1021
01:14:37,258 --> 01:14:43,375
but Front yards are really where
everything changes in this area.

1022
01:14:43,375 --> 01:14:50,338
And I know that the larger lots, it's
different, but most neighborhoods, I

1023
01:14:50,338 --> 01:14:50,903
different, but most neighborhoods, I
think,

1024
01:14:50,903 --> 01:14:58,337
would not like to have those fences all
around with possible security gates for

1025
01:14:58,337 --> 01:15:05,677
many, many reasons. But so I just wanted
to say that I actually I found myself

1026
01:15:05,677 --> 01:15:10,852
agreeing with you for most of what you
said. Thank you.

1027
01:15:10,852 --> 01:15:16,644
Thank you. All right, anyone else have any
comments?

1028
01:15:16,644 --> 01:15:22,707
I want to say one more thing about
chain-link fences.

1029
01:15:22,707 --> 01:15:25,681
What we're putting in now,

1030
01:15:25,681 --> 01:15:28,998
it comes closer to the house.

1031
01:15:28,998 --> 01:15:34,193
Julie, we can't, we can't hear you. You
need to come up to the microphone.

1032
01:15:34,193 --> 01:15:38,617
We gotta limit this to one time. We're
gonna be here all night.

1033
01:15:38,617 --> 01:15:39,740
We're all right.

1034
01:15:39,740 --> 01:15:45,301
We had a huge big chain-link fence when we
had Border Collies,

1035
01:15:45,301 --> 01:15:49,068
and that fence was for the Border Collies.

1036
01:15:49,068 --> 01:15:56,334
What we're gonna do now is we're gonna put
a chain-link fence that cannot be seen

1037
01:15:56,334 --> 01:16:00,011
from the street. It's gonna to be 6 feet.

1038
01:16:00,011 --> 01:16:06,739
It's going to fence in the bird feeders
and the birdseed and the birdbaths,

1039
01:16:06,739 --> 01:16:09,609
and agile deer can get in there.

1040
01:16:09,609 --> 01:16:15,798
We have all kinds of animals that get in,
but not the dangerous ones.

1041
01:16:15,798 --> 01:16:22,884
But the idea that we have it smaller and
it's going to be dark brown Because we

1042
01:16:22,884 --> 01:16:23,243
it's going to be dark brown Because we
have

1043
01:16:23,243 --> 01:16:27,100
brown trees, we don't have any black
trees.

1044
01:16:27,100 --> 01:16:34,455
We— so we've decided it needs to blend and
it's going to be lovely and we're going

1045
01:16:34,455 --> 01:16:38,222
to try to get done before this is enacted.

1046
01:16:38,222 --> 01:16:43,245
And one more thing is I'm 83, my daughter
is 63, not 53,

1047
01:16:43,245 --> 01:16:49,075
and so we We have really been here a long,
long time. We love it.

1048
01:16:49,075 --> 01:16:51,407
We don't want to leave it.

1049
01:16:51,407 --> 01:16:54,636
And— but we don't want to say, well,

1050
01:16:54,636 --> 01:17:00,108
you just can't have a chain-link fence
because they're tacky.

1051
01:17:00,108 --> 01:17:06,297
Well, ours, you just don't have to come
look at it and it'll be fine.

1052
01:17:06,297 --> 01:17:09,894
All right. Thank you.

1053
01:17:09,894 --> 01:17:15,717
Does anybody have anything else to

1054
01:17:15,717 --> 01:17:18,458
say? Yes, ma'am.

1055
01:17:18,458 --> 01:17:20,922
Are these comments just about fences?

1056
01:17:20,922 --> 01:17:25,689
This is a public hearing for the fences,
yes. You're here for some other reason?

1057
01:17:25,689 --> 01:17:28,588
Yes, but that's okay.

1058
01:17:28,588 --> 01:17:29,957
Okay. If you can wait.

1059
01:17:29,957 --> 01:17:33,754
It's going to be— we're going to have a
discussion now. Okay.

1060
01:17:33,754 --> 01:17:37,987
Does anybody else want to speak about
fences in this public hearing?

1061
01:17:37,987 --> 01:17:39,064
Actually, I do.

1062
01:17:39,064 --> 01:17:41,177
You do? Okay. Come forward.

1063
01:17:41,177 --> 01:17:45,315
My name is Grace Dent, and I live at 1155
Suwannee Road.

1064
01:17:45,315 --> 01:17:50,710
I was not planning to speak about this,
and I'm actually very much a rule

1065
01:17:50,710 --> 01:17:51,375
and I'm actually very much a rule
follower.

1066
01:17:51,375 --> 01:17:57,287
So the fact that we have a white kind of
farm fence in our front yard is sort of

1067
01:17:57,287 --> 01:18:02,017
panicking me. But I did want to speak I've
got 3 young children,

1068
01:18:02,017 --> 01:18:06,451
and when we were looking for somewhere to
live in Nashville,

1069
01:18:06,451 --> 01:18:11,698
there are just not as many neighborhoods
as the town that I grew up in,

1070
01:18:11,698 --> 01:18:15,245
and a lot of cut-through streets and busy
roads,

1071
01:18:15,245 --> 01:18:18,940
and that's just not what we imagined for a
family.

1072
01:18:18,940 --> 01:18:22,856
And we found this house in Oak Hill on
Suwannee Road,

1073
01:18:22,856 --> 01:18:26,847
and the particular lot is very wide and
not very deep,

1074
01:18:26,847 --> 01:18:31,503
and so my kids play in the front yard.
That's the soccer field.

1075
01:18:31,503 --> 01:18:33,424
That's the baseball field.

1076
01:18:33,424 --> 01:18:37,119
And we had a number of really scary safety
issues,

1077
01:18:37,119 --> 01:18:40,001
even with me being out there with them,

1078
01:18:40,001 --> 01:18:44,583
because Suwannee is a little bit more of a
cut-through street,

1079
01:18:44,583 --> 01:18:49,756
especially around pickup time, people
trying to go to Oak Hill School.

1080
01:18:49,756 --> 01:18:55,298
And so we— I emailed about a permit, never
heard back from the of Oak Hill.

1081
01:18:55,298 --> 01:19:01,136
I'm a new homeowner. And so we put the
fence up because of the safety concerns.

1082
01:19:01,136 --> 01:19:04,462
So I guess in the realm of this
conversation,

1083
01:19:04,462 --> 01:19:10,152
I really tried to honor the character of
the neighborhood and do a fence that

1084
01:19:10,152 --> 01:19:10,595
the neighborhood and do a fence that
really

1085
01:19:10,595 --> 01:19:12,517
felt in fitting with that.

1086
01:19:12,517 --> 01:19:17,320
But as a lot of people have talked about
with the different lots,

1087
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:18,946
and there wasn't much—

1088
01:19:18,946 --> 01:19:25,006
it was a difficult thing to think of any
other way we could put a fence that would

1089
01:19:25,006 --> 01:19:27,075
protect my kids in our yard.

1090
01:19:27,075 --> 01:19:30,844
So just— I just— I guess I just wanted to
speak to—

1091
01:19:30,844 --> 01:19:35,943
I love that Oak Hill has all these
restrictions, and honestly, we've—

1092
01:19:35,943 --> 01:19:42,003
we're hoping to add on to our house and
have really tried to follow all the rules,

1093
01:19:42,003 --> 01:19:44,146
but there are different lots,

1094
01:19:44,146 --> 01:19:49,910
and just how can we keep that in mind and
the safety of our families and kids?

1095
01:19:49,910 --> 01:19:50,186
Thank you.

1096
01:19:51,140 --> 01:19:54,880
And just— that's all I have to say about
that. Thank you.

1097
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,093
Okay. Great. Thank you.

1098
01:20:01,093 --> 01:20:01,255
Okay.

1099
01:20:03,902 --> 01:20:11,711
Anybody else now? Yes, sir.

1100
01:20:11,711 --> 01:20:14,052
I'm still John Patterson.

1101
01:20:14,052 --> 01:20:20,232
Do we ever do a roll call of the room,
like who is for or against,

1102
01:20:20,232 --> 01:20:25,288
that people may not be confident to come
up and speak?

1103
01:20:25,288 --> 01:20:28,941
I'm not aware of doing that. I just want
to see on procedure.

1104
01:20:28,941 --> 01:20:30,678
Thank you for the suggestion.

1105
01:20:33,570 --> 01:20:33,668
Okay.

1106
01:20:34,326 --> 01:20:36,890
Does anybody else want to speak?

1107
01:20:36,890 --> 01:20:42,979
Some of you I see here, I know you've
spoken before, and you're not speaking

1108
01:20:42,979 --> 01:20:43,299
spoken before, and you're not speaking
now,

1109
01:20:43,299 --> 01:20:49,148
but I— I've heard you before, so you— we
keep all those comments in mind.

1110
01:20:49,148 --> 01:20:52,032
But if there's nobody else to speak,

1111
01:20:52,032 --> 01:20:56,519
then I'm going to go ahead and close the
public hearing.

1112
01:20:56,519 --> 01:21:01,646
And we will now go to the next item on the
agenda, which is— um,

1113
01:21:01,646 --> 01:21:03,649
I always lose the agenda.

1114
01:21:03,649 --> 01:21:09,418
It's, uh, it's actually going to be
deliberation on the ordinance that's

1115
01:21:09,418 --> 01:21:10,219
deliberation on the ordinance that's
before us.

1116
01:21:10,219 --> 01:21:16,148
There we go. Um, so This is review and
consideration for adoption on first

1117
01:21:16,148 --> 01:21:16,789
consideration for adoption on first
reading,

1118
01:21:16,789 --> 01:21:22,157
Ordinance 2026-05, an Ordinance of the
City of Oak Hill, Tennessee,

1119
01:21:22,157 --> 01:21:27,685
amending the Municipal Code, Chapter 14,
Zoning and Land Use Control,

1120
01:21:27,685 --> 01:21:33,213
Section 14-123, Walls, Gatehouses, Entry
Monuments and Gates. Second.

1121
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:34,729
Yes.

1122
01:21:34,729 --> 01:21:39,756
All right. So we are on that now on the
floor.

1123
01:21:39,756 --> 01:21:46,094
We can— I guess we probably ought to have
a motion to move

1124
01:21:46,094 --> 01:21:52,541
this onto the floor so that we can go
ahead and discuss it.

1125
01:21:52,541 --> 01:21:58,988
So is there a motion to approve the
section that I was just

1126
01:21:58,988 --> 01:22:00,409
referring to.

1127
01:22:00,409 --> 01:22:04,590
I'll make them— I'll make a motion to
approve it.

1128
01:22:04,590 --> 01:22:06,899
Okay. And is there a second?

1129
01:22:06,899 --> 01:22:10,966
For purposes of discussion, I'll second.

1130
01:22:10,966 --> 01:22:13,837
Yeah, for purposes of discussion. Okay.

1131
01:22:13,837 --> 01:22:17,886
All right, so it's officially on the, on
the floor now.

1132
01:22:17,886 --> 01:22:21,052
Um, so we've got a motion and a second,
uh,

1133
01:22:21,052 --> 01:22:25,249
and I will ask Vice Mayor Evans I'm going
to ask you, Mr.

1134
01:22:25,249 --> 01:22:28,120
Evans, to speak first if you'd like to.

1135
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:34,604
I'm persuaded. I don't think there's any
pushback about—

1136
01:22:34,604 --> 01:22:38,193
first of all, we had, you know,

1137
01:22:38,193 --> 01:22:41,667
a 3-foot trying to compromise.

1138
01:22:41,667 --> 01:22:45,719
All of this is a compromise, folks.

1139
01:22:45,719 --> 01:22:50,930
And we talked about 3-foot front yard
fences.

1140
01:22:50,930 --> 01:22:54,635
And we decided that didn't work.

1141
01:22:54,715 --> 01:23:01,007
And what we've got now is no front yard
fences, but only in A, B,

1142
01:23:01,007 --> 01:23:05,653
and C. So that's in quarter-acre,
half-acre lot,

1143
01:23:05,653 --> 01:23:08,170
and 1-acre lots generally.

1144
01:23:08,427 --> 01:23:11,141
And those A, B, and C are generally—

1145
01:23:11,895 --> 01:23:14,859
sometimes, you know, we've got all these
irregularities,

1146
01:23:14,859 --> 01:23:16,923
nonconforming lots throughout the city.

1147
01:23:17,824 --> 01:23:24,303
But that's so that generally you would
have no 1-acre—

1148
01:23:24,303 --> 01:23:31,262
no front yard, no fences in the front yard
in those zones.

1149
01:23:31,262 --> 01:23:38,220
D, E, and F, in so many words, okay, you
can have a fence,

1150
01:23:38,220 --> 01:23:41,100
and I think it's 4 feet.

1151
01:23:41,100 --> 01:23:41,568
4 feet.

1152
01:23:42,700 --> 01:23:49,436
In the front yard, like a farm fence. It's
spoken in opacity.

1153
01:23:49,436 --> 01:23:56,503
You'll see a lot of these regulations
written by various cities,

1154
01:23:56,503 --> 01:24:02,686
municipalities, and they say opacity
means, for example,

1155
01:24:02,686 --> 01:24:07,214
you can't see through it in simple terms.

1156
01:24:07,214 --> 01:24:14,060
Um, The trouble is coming with the
backyard fences. I hear it.

1157
01:24:14,060 --> 01:24:20,354
I hear the problem with the quarter-acre,
half-acre lots.

1158
01:24:20,354 --> 01:24:28,194
A lot of— I've gotten a lot of emails from
folks on A and B lots saying

1159
01:24:28,194 --> 01:24:31,396
we need to have solid fences,

1160
01:24:31,396 --> 01:24:38,132
and the I didn't see anybody pushing for
fences in the front.

1161
01:24:38,132 --> 01:24:45,420
I think there is a question of whether 6
feet or 5 feet or 4 feet.

1162
01:24:45,420 --> 01:24:53,259
I think we can probably make a compromise
at 5 feet for solid fences in

1163
01:24:53,259 --> 01:24:58,891
the rear. Those are my initial thoughts.
There are—

1164
01:25:00,417 --> 01:25:04,447
There's some technicalities here that
nobody's addressed.

1165
01:25:04,624 --> 01:25:09,767
Well, somebody's addressed them in one of
the emails about, um,

1166
01:25:09,767 --> 01:25:13,359
where you can have a retaining or fill
wall.

1167
01:25:13,359 --> 01:25:18,257
And Marshall, this is more of a question
for you from me on—

1168
01:25:18,257 --> 01:25:24,542
and I'm getting off the subject of front
yard and rear yard fences. There are

1169
01:25:24,542 --> 01:25:25,032
yard and rear yard fences. There are
other—

1170
01:25:25,032 --> 01:25:25,129
Yes.

1171
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:28,806
And it says in 14-123,

1172
01:25:28,806 --> 01:25:33,777
no retaining wall or fill retaining wall
may be

1173
01:25:33,777 --> 01:25:39,805
constructed or permitted within 10 feet of
any easements.

1174
01:25:39,805 --> 01:25:45,093
Should that be within public or utility
easements?

1175
01:25:45,093 --> 01:25:50,487
I'm sorry, can you direct me again to that
section?

1176
01:25:50,487 --> 01:25:50,551
Oh.

1177
01:25:51,842 --> 01:25:58,385
C, that's the— we're on the retaining
walls. C, Romanette 4. Yeah, Romanette 4.

1178
01:25:58,385 --> 01:26:02,526
And I know we had the problem about the
fella, Mr.

1179
01:26:02,526 --> 01:26:09,068
King's problem with the person just— This
says within 10 feet of any easements.

1180
01:26:09,068 --> 01:26:14,203
That's what, what your ordinance, the
proposed ordinance says,

1181
01:26:14,203 --> 01:26:16,853
within 10 feet of any easements.

1182
01:26:16,853 --> 01:26:20,829
Okay, so that would include— that would
be— yes,

1183
01:26:20,829 --> 01:26:24,721
that would include public or utility
easements.

1184
01:26:24,769 --> 01:26:28,186
So we're not going to be

1185
01:26:28,186 --> 01:26:31,176
interfering with, um,

1186
01:26:31,176 --> 01:26:33,027
with private—

1187
01:26:33,027 --> 01:26:37,327
you don't, you don't want a retaining wall
building on a private easement, right?

1188
01:26:37,327 --> 01:26:37,634
Right.

1189
01:26:37,634 --> 01:26:44,245
And you don't want a public or utility You
don't want a retaining wall built on a

1190
01:26:44,245 --> 01:26:46,449
public or utility easement.

1191
01:26:46,449 --> 01:26:51,999
So I guess now that I've gone through it,
I think that line is okay.

1192
01:26:51,999 --> 01:26:57,059
It's certainly something that you can
decide as commissioners.

1193
01:26:57,059 --> 01:26:58,017
Okay.

1194
01:26:58,017 --> 01:27:00,359
If you're pleased with it.

1195
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:05,853
On the color of the fence, there was some
concern about that.

1196
01:27:05,853 --> 01:27:13,419
But I think if you look in the fencing, it
says materials fences. It says materials.

1197
01:27:13,419 --> 01:27:20,804
Fences shall be constructed with material
that blends with the natural environment

1198
01:27:20,804 --> 01:27:24,767
and is compatible with associated
structure.

1199
01:27:24,767 --> 01:27:31,252
Examples of such preferred material
include the following: wood, Natural

1200
01:27:31,252 --> 01:27:31,792
include the following: wood, Natural
stone,

1201
01:27:31,792 --> 01:27:36,386
cultured stone, brick, painted metal,
wrought iron,

1202
01:27:36,386 --> 01:27:40,078
wood stained dark brown or painted white.

1203
01:27:40,078 --> 01:27:47,464
Such fence may— fences may include fencing
attached to the interior of the primary

1204
01:27:47,464 --> 01:27:54,219
fence, i.e., the side of the fence
oriented toward the principal portion of

1205
01:27:54,219 --> 01:27:54,940
oriented toward the principal portion of
the lot.

1206
01:27:54,940 --> 01:27:57,191
Now, 2 things about that.

1207
01:27:57,191 --> 01:28:04,036
I think you can see This is not limited to
what your fence has to look like.

1208
01:28:04,036 --> 01:28:07,549
It's wide open as long as it blends in.

1209
01:28:07,549 --> 01:28:13,854
Then there's fences may include wire
fencing attached to the interior.

1210
01:28:13,854 --> 01:28:18,627
What that is for is when you're not on a
solid fence,

1211
01:28:18,627 --> 01:28:22,230
but when you've got a 50% opacity fence,

1212
01:28:22,230 --> 01:28:28,805
you can put a wire there and like people
do To keep dogs and kids inside.

1213
01:28:28,805 --> 01:28:33,038
So I want to explain that. I think that's
good.

1214
01:28:33,038 --> 01:28:35,218
D.

1215
01:28:35,218 --> 01:28:40,611
But the height and location of the fences,
I think,

1216
01:28:40,611 --> 01:28:46,321
is probably the critical thing everybody's
looking at.

1217
01:28:46,321 --> 01:28:48,965
So let's look at Section—

1218
01:28:49,710 --> 01:28:51,503
Romanette, Yes.

1219
01:28:51,503 --> 01:28:53,298
It's D, Romanette 2.

1220
01:28:53,298 --> 01:28:58,951
Fences are not permitted in the front
yards of any lot which is

1221
01:28:58,951 --> 01:29:02,720
in District A, B, or C. So that's quarter—

1222
01:29:03,063 --> 01:29:06,066
generally quarter-acre, half-acre, and
1-acre lot.

1223
01:29:07,347 --> 01:29:10,866
And I think that would cover the folks on
Van Leer.

1224
01:29:10,866 --> 01:29:14,248
I think they are in 1-acre, I believe,
generally.

1225
01:29:14,248 --> 01:29:19,906
Now, we've got a fence located in the rear
yard of a The height of the side lot in

1226
01:29:19,906 --> 01:29:25,289
any section of the fence from the rear
corners of the primary structure to the

1227
01:29:25,289 --> 01:29:25,565
corners of the primary structure to the
side

1228
01:29:25,565 --> 01:29:31,016
lot line, which is in Districts D, E, and
F, shall not exceed 5 feet in height.

1229
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:38,409
Now, that's where we're getting into the
problems about rear yards.

1230
01:29:38,843 --> 01:29:43,956
Now, those are the D, E, and F. Those are
2 acres and on up.

1231
01:29:43,956 --> 01:29:44,610
Okay.

1232
01:29:47,610 --> 01:29:53,755
And so you can have a 5-foot in height in
D, E, and F.

1233
01:29:55,033 --> 01:29:58,665
Then it says any other fence shall not
exceed 4 feet in height.

1234
01:29:58,745 --> 01:30:03,200
Well, we're going to have to blend that
with—

1235
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:09,634
I think with folks wanting to have a rear
lot that's solid fence.

1236
01:30:09,634 --> 01:30:11,515
Yes. In A, B, or C?

1237
01:30:13,036 --> 01:30:16,925
I would propose 5 foot in height for a
compromise.

1238
01:30:16,925 --> 01:30:19,492
Then when you get to D, E, and F,

1239
01:30:19,492 --> 01:30:21,126
what do you do there?

1240
01:30:21,190 --> 01:30:24,889
Are we going to have solid rear fences?

1241
01:30:24,889 --> 01:30:29,441
I'm not persuaded to have solid rear
fences in 2

1242
01:30:29,441 --> 01:30:30,864
acres and more.

1243
01:30:32,740 --> 01:30:35,202
I'll, I mean, I'll keep an open mind on
it,

1244
01:30:35,202 --> 01:30:37,778
but that just seems to me to be That's
right.

1245
01:30:37,778 --> 01:30:40,927
That's going to be just too much to have a
solid fence.

1246
01:30:41,911 --> 01:30:43,695
I've got no problem.

1247
01:30:43,695 --> 01:30:49,135
I think we've written it on the— you will
have a D, E, and F,

1248
01:30:49,135 --> 01:30:55,110
one of those larger lots, you could have a
farm fence, 50% opacity.

1249
01:30:57,067 --> 01:31:00,529
Otherwise, it says the fence shall not
exceed 4 feet in height.

1250
01:31:01,958 --> 01:31:06,622
One of these larger lots, there would be a
4-foot max,

1251
01:31:06,622 --> 01:31:12,236
but you can do it 5 feet in height, but
you've got a 50% opacity.

1252
01:31:12,236 --> 01:31:17,849
Now, what about somebody wants to have a
solid fence inside that?

1253
01:31:17,849 --> 01:31:23,118
You know, they— a lot of folks have a
room, a 2-acre, 4-acre,

1254
01:31:23,118 --> 01:31:29,077
have a pool or something like that. Well,
we've got solid fences. Oh.

1255
01:31:29,077 --> 01:31:31,927
100% passivity are not permitted.

1256
01:31:31,927 --> 01:31:36,332
This is going to have to be limited to D,
E, and F.

1257
01:31:37,543 --> 01:31:41,289
And that says— this would be D, E, and F.

1258
01:31:41,677 --> 01:31:46,567
And I'm suggesting we modify this from
what it's right now.

1259
01:31:46,567 --> 01:31:50,545
But I would suggest for D, E, and F, we
keep it—

1260
01:31:50,545 --> 01:31:53,197
you can have a solid fence. Yes.

1261
01:31:53,197 --> 01:31:58,081
On D, E, and F, provided it—

1262
01:31:59,019 --> 01:32:05,114
note that it, in so many words, it has to
stay within the house.

1263
01:32:05,114 --> 01:32:11,018
So you're not going to have a big solid
fence going out to the

1264
01:32:11,018 --> 01:32:11,494
side.

1265
01:32:11,574 --> 01:32:18,253
Hopefully you'll have room to have your
pool house or whatever you want to have

1266
01:32:18,253 --> 01:32:18,507
pool house or whatever you want to have
the

1267
01:32:18,507 --> 01:32:25,439
solid fence so you can And keep it within
the confines, if you will, of the house.

1268
01:32:26,220 --> 01:32:30,494
Now, if you want to have the pool out to
the side, fine.

1269
01:32:30,494 --> 01:32:33,929
You can put— you've got to have a pool
fence,

1270
01:32:33,929 --> 01:32:39,043
but you can do that without having a solid
fence because, you know,

1271
01:32:39,043 --> 01:32:43,699
I think it's 4 inches is what— and I may
be wrong about this,

1272
01:32:43,699 --> 01:32:49,806
but I think it's 4 inches is what the
maximum that the codes allow so kids can't

1273
01:32:49,806 --> 01:32:55,683
squeeze into it. But in so many words,
that's kind of what I'm, I'm thinking.

1274
01:32:55,731 --> 01:32:57,462
I want to hear what everybody else says.

1275
01:32:58,570 --> 01:33:03,568
So, so many words, no front yard fences in
A, B, and C,

1276
01:33:03,568 --> 01:33:08,930
which we already got, but we're going to
have solid fences.

1277
01:33:08,930 --> 01:33:09,294
Yes.

1278
01:33:10,820 --> 01:33:11,173
Not C.

1279
01:33:11,173 --> 01:33:15,150
Because that's what I— so why do I say A
or B?

1280
01:33:15,150 --> 01:33:20,942
Because I've gotten a lot of— those are
quarter and half-acre lots,

1281
01:33:20,942 --> 01:33:25,438
and that's what people have written me
about saying,

1282
01:33:25,438 --> 01:33:28,637
we want to have A and B solid fences.

1283
01:33:28,637 --> 01:33:35,208
I haven't heard anything— a lot, I mean, I
mean, maybe it's debatable about—

1284
01:33:35,208 --> 01:33:41,951
and I can go one way or the other about
whether in C, Zone C, which is 1 acre,

1285
01:33:41,951 --> 01:33:46,706
whether you could have solid fences all
the way around.

1286
01:33:46,706 --> 01:33:53,277
But keep in mind, you got to remember what
these 2 gentlemen over here said.

1287
01:33:53,277 --> 01:33:59,934
You put a fence up, you're putting another
fence on the other man's property.

1288
01:33:59,934 --> 01:34:04,083
Right. That's the one that hits me.

1289
01:34:04,083 --> 01:34:10,616
And I'm also— another thing I want to say
that I'm concerned about is an old

1290
01:34:10,616 --> 01:34:17,407
adage: you can put a lot more water in the
cake mix, but you can't take it out.

1291
01:34:17,407 --> 01:34:21,017
And maybe the best thing to do is go slow.

1292
01:34:21,017 --> 01:34:27,637
We have all these fences come in, and then
we're going to think, ooh, We got—

1293
01:34:27,637 --> 01:34:33,912
this got too much, and I, I would rather
err in the— call it restrictive,

1294
01:34:33,912 --> 01:34:37,780
but that's the way I sort of feel like on
it.

1295
01:34:37,780 --> 01:34:41,791
Okay, thank you. Uh, Commissioner DeMarco,

1296
01:34:41,791 --> 01:34:44,178
do you have any comments?

1297
01:34:44,178 --> 01:34:46,374
Um, Commissioner Price?

1298
01:34:46,374 --> 01:34:52,375
Well, um, I have lived on Tyne Boulevard—
I'm sorry,

1299
01:34:52,375 --> 01:34:57,222
I've lived on Tyne Boulevard for 43 years,

1300
01:34:57,222 --> 01:35:03,684
and Oak Hill is prettier now than when I
moved out here.

1301
01:35:03,684 --> 01:35:09,916
Having been here for 70 years, I take
offense to that.

1302
01:35:09,916 --> 01:35:12,916
You were gone for a while.

1303
01:35:12,916 --> 01:35:18,340
For a while, but I came back, better for
Worse.

1304
01:35:18,340 --> 01:35:26,072
And so I have great confidence in the
common sense of my neighbors,

1305
01:35:26,072 --> 01:35:32,765
and I have listened to my fellow
commissioners for a long,

1306
01:35:32,765 --> 01:35:39,227
long time as we have hashed and rehashed
this ordinance,

1307
01:35:39,227 --> 01:35:46,267
and I am still not persuaded that That
this is not regulatory

1308
01:35:46,267 --> 01:35:51,229
overreach. I've tried to keep an open
mind.

1309
01:35:51,229 --> 01:35:56,537
I, I do feel like your backyard in
particular,

1310
01:35:56,537 --> 01:36:01,384
for all the reasons that have been stated,

1311
01:36:01,384 --> 01:36:05,423
is appropriate for you to fence in.

1312
01:36:05,423 --> 01:36:11,078
It seems to me that if you want a security
fence,

1313
01:36:11,078 --> 01:36:14,193
6 feet is not Unreasonable.

1314
01:36:14,193 --> 01:36:17,078
I just feel like this is—

1315
01:36:17,078 --> 01:36:23,656
I hadn't heard until tonight it being
compared to an HOA,

1316
01:36:23,656 --> 01:36:29,772
but it just strikes me as being regulatory
overreach.

1317
01:36:29,772 --> 01:36:33,004
That I'm uncomfortable with.

1318
01:36:33,004 --> 01:36:39,812
And I'll say again, I really have
confidence in the people.

1319
01:36:39,812 --> 01:36:44,197
As some— as one of you spoke and said,

1320
01:36:44,197 --> 01:36:52,045
what really makes Oak Hill is not our
houses and yards so much as it

1321
01:36:52,045 --> 01:36:57,930
is the people. I really agree with that
philosophy.

1322
01:36:57,930 --> 01:36:59,400
Thank you.

1323
01:37:00,413 --> 01:37:07,262
We have loved our neighbors and have
enjoyed trying to be a good neighbor.

1324
01:37:07,262 --> 01:37:11,798
And so that's, that's what I would urge us
to do.

1325
01:37:11,798 --> 01:37:19,202
And I, I don't have a magic pill or magic
answer of how to go forward from this,

1326
01:37:19,202 --> 01:37:23,460
but this seems to me to be an overreach.
Okay.

1327
01:37:25,590 --> 01:37:26,477
Okay, thank you.

1328
01:37:26,477 --> 01:37:32,114
I thought it would be good for people here
at both ends of the spectrum because

1329
01:37:32,114 --> 01:37:35,253
we're not united necessarily over the
thing.

1330
01:37:35,253 --> 01:37:38,392
As Winston said, this has been a
compromise.

1331
01:37:38,392 --> 01:37:42,245
And here, just a point of information—
Can't hear you.

1332
01:37:42,342 --> 01:37:43,227
You got to get closer.

1333
01:37:43,227 --> 01:37:48,294
Sorry, sorry. This has been a compromise
between all of us.

1334
01:37:48,294 --> 01:37:54,134
Probably you heard from the two ends of
the spectrum on the thought.

1335
01:37:54,134 --> 01:38:00,060
And somebody said we had different
versions on the web versus on the—

1336
01:38:00,060 --> 01:38:01,778
what was mailed out.

1337
01:38:01,778 --> 01:38:07,876
Well, what was mailed out, we then had a
public hearing— no, we didn't—

1338
01:38:07,876 --> 01:38:11,654
a public hearing in the Planning
Commission.

1339
01:38:11,654 --> 01:38:16,378
And we got a lot of correspondence. And so
we modified.

1340
01:38:16,378 --> 01:38:16,539
Okay.

1341
01:38:17,326 --> 01:38:21,670
To eliminate allowing fences in the front
yard.

1342
01:38:21,670 --> 01:38:28,693
And what was the other significant
modification that was made after feedback

1343
01:38:28,693 --> 01:38:29,063
modification that was made after feedback
from

1344
01:38:29,063 --> 01:38:33,129
residents? We put the grandfather clause
in.

1345
01:38:33,129 --> 01:38:38,028
Clarified by specifically stating
grandfather clause.

1346
01:38:38,028 --> 01:38:45,698
And so And we put the definition of chain
link in because we had heard of a case in

1347
01:38:45,698 --> 01:38:52,999
South Carolina where there was a very
technical argument in the courtroom about

1348
01:38:52,999 --> 01:38:53,369
technical argument in the courtroom about
what

1349
01:38:53,369 --> 01:38:55,587
is or is not chain link.

1350
01:38:55,651 --> 01:38:59,814
So that's why the long definition of what
chain link is.

1351
01:38:59,926 --> 01:39:04,456
We didn't want to leave any doubt about
that. Yeah.

1352
01:39:05,087 --> 01:39:05,330
And so—

1353
01:39:05,330 --> 01:39:08,316
And then there was one other thing.

1354
01:39:08,316 --> 01:39:11,218
We have a problem with putting up—

1355
01:39:11,218 --> 01:39:17,617
we're putting a prohibition on people
taking mesh and hanging it on fences,

1356
01:39:17,617 --> 01:39:23,846
such as the example on the northwest
corner of Franklin Road and Harding.

1357
01:39:23,846 --> 01:39:29,990
Uh, there was— the Planning Commission did
not like that one, and so we—

1358
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:34,086
I think we've We included a prohibition on
that.

1359
01:39:34,086 --> 01:39:37,755
If you're going to have a fence, it's
fine.

1360
01:39:37,755 --> 01:39:44,069
Otherwise, the translucent mesh or
whatever it is— And so that— excuse me—

1361
01:39:44,069 --> 01:39:47,055
response we got from the residents,

1362
01:39:47,055 --> 01:39:52,431
it's the first time since I've been here
we proposed something,

1363
01:39:52,431 --> 01:39:57,466
and the overwhelming response was, we want
more regulation.

1364
01:39:57,466 --> 01:40:03,268
We don't want to allow fences in the front
yard, you know, which is—

1365
01:40:03,268 --> 01:40:05,316
previously been allowed.

1366
01:40:05,316 --> 01:40:10,009
So, so we adjusted it to deny fences in
the front yard,

1367
01:40:10,009 --> 01:40:14,275
which were previously allowed in what we
proposed.

1368
01:40:14,275 --> 01:40:21,016
But in general sense, I favor 6-foot
fences in the backyard, certainly in A and

1369
01:40:21,016 --> 01:40:21,187
fences in the backyard, certainly in A and
B,

1370
01:40:21,187 --> 01:40:24,173
because that's a different element.

1371
01:40:24,173 --> 01:40:28,525
And I could be Persuaded to— I'm on the
fence on C.

1372
01:40:28,525 --> 01:40:32,303
Unintended pun.

1373
01:40:32,303 --> 01:40:36,886
I live in C. I have a neighbor who has a
6-foot fence.

1374
01:40:36,886 --> 01:40:42,402
Personally, I don't care for it, but I'm
okay with them doing it.

1375
01:40:42,402 --> 01:40:46,306
You know, I don't resent their right to do
it.

1376
01:40:46,306 --> 01:40:51,823
So anyway, just in summary, I agree I
tried to draft some change,

1377
01:40:51,823 --> 01:40:55,133
but I'm not sure I did a very good job.

1378
01:40:55,133 --> 01:41:01,243
But before the meeting, that would allow
fences in the rear yard 6 foot.

1379
01:41:01,243 --> 01:41:07,948
And, and really, I think they ought to be
allowed not just within the accessory

1380
01:41:07,948 --> 01:41:12,361
setback, but really to the property line
in A and B,

1381
01:41:12,361 --> 01:41:19,405
because I think it would be goofy To have
to pull them into the accessory structure

1382
01:41:19,405 --> 01:41:23,818
setback, which is less space than the full
backyard,

1383
01:41:23,818 --> 01:41:30,693
and then you've got this kind of funky
area between. I agree with you on A and B.

1384
01:41:30,693 --> 01:41:37,227
What we're talking about— I'm thinking
about on the solid fencing in A and B,

1385
01:41:37,227 --> 01:41:42,235
you could put those on the boundary in the
rear. Okay. Yes.

1386
01:41:42,235 --> 01:41:46,563
The question is going to be 6 feet or 5
feet. Yeah.

1387
01:41:46,563 --> 01:41:47,910
Are you talking about solid fences?

1388
01:41:47,910 --> 01:41:49,483
Solid fences, 6 feet.

1389
01:41:49,483 --> 01:41:51,447
In A and B?

1390
01:41:51,447 --> 01:41:58,916
In A and B. A and B. And I'm open on C.
All right.

1391
01:41:59,013 --> 01:42:00,157
What about D, E, and F?

1392
01:42:00,157 --> 01:42:04,621
Can— as it's currently written,

1393
01:42:04,621 --> 01:42:10,814
Or they are allowed to build a fence
within

1394
01:42:10,814 --> 01:42:14,990
the accessory setback, right?

1395
01:42:14,990 --> 01:42:18,590
Um, is that solid or not?

1396
01:42:18,590 --> 01:42:19,222
That's solid.

1397
01:42:19,222 --> 01:42:21,662
Okay, I think that's adequate.

1398
01:42:21,662 --> 01:42:25,809
A private solid fence within the accessory
setback,

1399
01:42:25,809 --> 01:42:29,712
I think that's fine. I think I'm okay with
that.

1400
01:42:29,712 --> 01:42:37,486
But limited to a 5-foot and 50% Opacity
around the rest of the backyard or—

1401
01:42:37,486 --> 01:42:38,845
I would be fine with 6 feet.

1402
01:42:38,845 --> 01:42:40,814
Solid?

1403
01:42:40,814 --> 01:42:43,928
Solid. Around the accessory structure.

1404
01:42:43,928 --> 01:42:48,624
Accessory, right. I'm talking about the
rest of the rear yard.

1405
01:42:48,624 --> 01:42:50,896
It's okay if you don't have a—

1406
01:42:50,896 --> 01:42:52,947
Say again. I thought—

1407
01:42:52,947 --> 01:42:56,298
If we're talking about— I thought—

1408
01:42:56,298 --> 01:43:04,378
are you saying that you also would agree
with a 6-foot fence around the rear yards

1409
01:43:04,378 --> 01:43:09,996
in D, E, and F, um, that is solid and it's
6 feet within—

1410
01:43:09,996 --> 01:43:16,894
on the accessory structure, on the outside
boundaries of the property.

1411
01:43:16,894 --> 01:43:24,641
It doesn't matter. I, I could argue either
way. So I will—

1412
01:43:24,641 --> 01:43:29,601
Okay. Well, then I don't know why you're

1413
01:43:29,601 --> 01:43:34,809
not sure about C. You're leaving them out.

1414
01:43:34,809 --> 01:43:36,542
Yeah. What are your thoughts?

1415
01:43:36,542 --> 01:43:42,386
My thoughts— well, my thoughts on this was
I was very glad when the

1416
01:43:42,386 --> 01:43:48,491
gentleman came forward to reveal to one
and all exactly where this all

1417
01:43:48,491 --> 01:43:51,718
began, however many years ago it was.

1418
01:43:51,718 --> 01:43:57,910
by a privacy solid board fence that went
from the backyard to the front

1419
01:43:57,910 --> 01:44:01,486
street in Zone B— District A. District A.

1420
01:44:01,486 --> 01:44:02,739
Down the middle of the driveway.

1421
01:44:02,739 --> 01:44:05,815
Down the middle of a driveway, a shared
driveway.

1422
01:44:05,815 --> 01:44:10,836
And that's, ladies and gentlemen, what—
you know, you want to know what problem—

1423
01:44:10,836 --> 01:44:14,540
what problem are we trying to solve? That
was— that was it.

1424
01:44:14,910 --> 01:44:15,824
Can I make one quick comment?

1425
01:44:15,824 --> 01:44:16,385
Yes.

1426
01:44:16,385 --> 01:44:21,770
Yeah, one thing I think I've learned from
being on this board is it's not

1427
01:44:21,770 --> 01:44:25,606
possible to predict what people might do
in advance,

1428
01:44:25,606 --> 01:44:27,819
and that's one of those cases.

1429
01:44:27,819 --> 01:44:32,122
Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's, that's
very true.

1430
01:44:32,122 --> 01:44:37,522
And, you know, we, we try very hard to, to
draft our ordinances.

1431
01:44:37,522 --> 01:44:40,982
We've done some, some very difficult Yes.

1432
01:44:40,982 --> 01:44:47,395
We have had some difficult ones in the
last several years involving the bulk

1433
01:44:47,395 --> 01:44:49,673
standards, involving trees,

1434
01:44:49,673 --> 01:44:56,423
and they have required listening to lots
of people with different circumstances.

1435
01:44:56,423 --> 01:45:01,401
And I think that the people who have
pointed out, you know,

1436
01:45:01,401 --> 01:45:07,561
the variability of the yards and the
structures and so forth in Oak Hill,

1437
01:45:07,561 --> 01:45:12,033
even within the districts, makes this very
difficult.

1438
01:45:12,033 --> 01:45:18,445
It's difficult for us to try to come up
with a rule that's going to fit even

1439
01:45:18,445 --> 01:45:18,952
with a rule that's going to fit even
within

1440
01:45:18,952 --> 01:45:23,002
just one district, much less for the whole
city.

1441
01:45:23,002 --> 01:45:29,921
And so it is a daunting task, and we can
do our very best, and then lo and behold,

1442
01:45:29,921 --> 01:45:36,755
a developer or an ingenious homeowner will
come up with a loophole that we didn't

1443
01:45:36,755 --> 01:45:43,337
think about, such as putting the fence
down the middle of a shared driveway to

1444
01:45:43,337 --> 01:45:43,590
down the middle of a shared driveway to
the

1445
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:46,459
street, and that causes a problem.

1446
01:45:46,459 --> 01:45:52,618
And it looks like we're stupid, which
sometimes we may be. Try not to be.

1447
01:45:52,618 --> 01:45:58,946
My thoughts on this are that I'm not
totally comfortable with where we are.

1448
01:45:58,946 --> 01:46:02,321
We have worked on this and worked on it.

1449
01:46:02,321 --> 01:46:08,987
And Commissioner— Vice Mayor Evans gets
credit for the laboring oar and holding

1450
01:46:08,987 --> 01:46:09,240
credit for the laboring oar and holding
the

1451
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:16,328
pen on this process and being sent back to
the drawing board to come up with another

1452
01:46:16,328 --> 01:46:22,572
version that changes this or tweaks that.
And I appreciate that very much.

1453
01:46:22,572 --> 01:46:22,898
Thank you.

1454
01:46:23,010 --> 01:46:25,306
And I've said that so many times now.

1455
01:46:25,306 --> 01:46:27,714
Yeah, right, yeah.

1456
01:46:27,714 --> 01:46:33,618
But it is true. And I would really hate
for this to get sent back yet again.

1457
01:46:33,618 --> 01:46:39,599
But I think that there are still some
things, the privacy fence, let me just—

1458
01:46:39,599 --> 01:46:42,707
so there was a gentleman who said, well,

1459
01:46:42,707 --> 01:46:49,154
I was here when the whole room was filled
with people who were against doing any of

1460
01:46:49,154 --> 01:46:54,825
this, and so I'm really surprised when I
read that you're doing it again.

1461
01:46:54,825 --> 01:46:58,554
Well, in order to get the full view that
we get,

1462
01:46:58,554 --> 01:47:04,924
you have to come to every meeting because
we have a different audience every time.

1463
01:47:04,924 --> 01:47:11,216
And sometimes we have the people who came
in and they're all hot about, you know,

1464
01:47:11,216 --> 01:47:17,120
overregulation, and then the next crowd
that will come in will say, my gosh,

1465
01:47:17,120 --> 01:47:19,917
we can't have fences in front yards.

1466
01:47:19,917 --> 01:47:22,791
And so So it's been a back and forth,

1467
01:47:22,791 --> 01:47:29,239
and we've just tried to take it all in and
come up with, you know, what's going to—

1468
01:47:29,239 --> 01:47:35,453
what is going to solve the problem for
most people. And that's really all we can

1469
01:47:35,453 --> 01:47:35,686
most people. And that's really all we can
do.

1470
01:47:35,686 --> 01:47:40,891
The, you know, solid fences— and so here's
why I'm getting to that,

1471
01:47:40,891 --> 01:47:44,076
or going to that, and now I'll come back.

1472
01:47:44,076 --> 01:47:49,980
So many people who have expressed
Concerned about solid fences have compared

1473
01:47:49,980 --> 01:47:50,368
Concerned about solid fences have compared
us to

1474
01:47:50,368 --> 01:47:56,738
Green Hills. Or more typical of my route
to downtown would be through 12 South and

1475
01:47:56,738 --> 01:48:02,953
where you see lots of these privacy fences
that have gone up just like overnight

1476
01:48:02,953 --> 01:48:08,002
that really have created little fortresses
around the properties.

1477
01:48:08,002 --> 01:48:11,343
Properties, that to me is very
unappealing.

1478
01:48:11,343 --> 01:48:17,557
And so— and that's— and we've had a lot of
people in here talking about this who

1479
01:48:17,557 --> 01:48:21,752
have been— thought that that was not a
good way to go,

1480
01:48:21,752 --> 01:48:25,326
that they don't want to look like Green
Hills.

1481
01:48:25,326 --> 01:48:30,064
As lovely as Green Hills is and whatever
part of Green Hills,

1482
01:48:30,064 --> 01:48:36,279
I think someday we're going to have to
have a survey of what do you I don't know

1483
01:48:36,279 --> 01:48:41,251
what you mean when you say I don't want to
look like Greenhills,

1484
01:48:41,251 --> 01:48:45,679
because Greenhills has some— still has
some lovely parts.

1485
01:48:45,679 --> 01:48:51,816
But I think that it's sounding to me like
there are a number of people who want

1486
01:48:51,816 --> 01:48:57,797
solid fences in the back, and I think
particularly I was moved by some emails

1487
01:48:57,797 --> 01:48:58,108
particularly I was moved by some emails
Yes.

1488
01:48:58,108 --> 01:49:04,478
And one of the comments that we received
from people who live in A and B who said,

1489
01:49:04,478 --> 01:49:08,673
you know, we have quarter-acre or
half-acre lots here.

1490
01:49:08,673 --> 01:49:12,246
We don't have a big acre— even a big acre
lot.

1491
01:49:12,246 --> 01:49:18,305
And, you know, we're looking right into
our neighbor's backyard and, you know,

1492
01:49:18,305 --> 01:49:22,190
we really would like to be able to fence
that off.

1493
01:49:22,190 --> 01:49:25,064
Well, that makes— that appeals to me.

1494
01:49:25,064 --> 01:49:31,356
I've lived on Overton Lee Road for the
past 28 years and lived on Oak Valley Lane

1495
01:49:31,356 --> 01:49:33,376
for the previous 13 years.

1496
01:49:33,376 --> 01:49:37,726
So I've been in a 1-acre and then in a
larger hilly lot—

1497
01:49:37,726 --> 01:49:41,377
acre flat lot and a larger hilly lot
situation.

1498
01:49:41,377 --> 01:49:44,718
And both times our solution to that was
to—

1499
01:49:44,718 --> 01:49:51,087
we moved in and there was lots of We had a
honeysuckle bush growing all around the

1500
01:49:51,087 --> 01:49:53,030
yard and we just left it.

1501
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:57,613
Now, that didn't allow our— keep our
children in very well,

1502
01:49:57,613 --> 01:50:03,517
and so we did have to keep an eye on them.
But there are a lot of solutions.

1503
01:50:03,517 --> 01:50:08,644
And as Commissioner DeMarco said at one of
our meetings, you know,

1504
01:50:08,644 --> 01:50:15,014
you can't tell somebody they can't fence
in their property because they can always

1505
01:50:15,014 --> 01:50:19,286
grow evergreens all the way around it. And
that's true.

1506
01:50:19,286 --> 01:50:25,346
So my view is that the front yard fences
in A, B, and C, I think that's a done

1507
01:50:25,346 --> 01:50:25,734
in A, B, and C, I think that's a done
deal.

1508
01:50:25,734 --> 01:50:30,007
I don't think we've gotten really any
pushback on that.

1509
01:50:30,007 --> 01:50:34,201
I think we did get one email today that
spoke to that,

1510
01:50:34,201 --> 01:50:36,765
but I think that most people Yes.

1511
01:50:36,765 --> 01:50:41,581
I think that most of the people in A, B,
and C have said that,

1512
01:50:41,581 --> 01:50:47,718
and I think that most of the people who
were hot about not being allowed to put

1513
01:50:47,718 --> 01:50:52,923
fences in their front yards live in D, E,
and F, best I could tell.

1514
01:50:52,923 --> 01:50:59,138
And many of them— one of the people who
was so vociferous about it, as I recall,

1515
01:50:59,138 --> 01:51:02,167
and I'm not trying to identify anybody,

1516
01:51:02,167 --> 01:51:07,217
but he has around his entire yard a
wrought iron see-through Yes.

1517
01:51:07,217 --> 01:51:12,654
Fence all the way across his front yard
and everything, but, you know,

1518
01:51:12,654 --> 01:51:16,461
he thought that our proposal was too
restrictive.

1519
01:51:16,461 --> 01:51:21,200
And, you know, maybe he's got other plans
now, but, you know,

1520
01:51:21,200 --> 01:51:24,851
so I think that we've got those people
covered.

1521
01:51:24,851 --> 01:51:30,521
Front yard fences in D, E, and F and no
front yard fences in A, B, and C.

1522
01:51:30,521 --> 01:51:36,425
The backyard You know, it sounds to me
like we've still got some work to do,

1523
01:51:36,425 --> 01:51:42,407
frankly. You know, whether it's a 5-foot
or a 6-foot, whether it's solid, not

1524
01:51:42,407 --> 01:51:42,873
or a 6-foot, whether it's solid, not
solid.

1525
01:51:42,873 --> 01:51:45,293
I got a suggestion.

1526
01:51:45,293 --> 01:51:49,619
Okay. If I interrupt you. Are you trying
to cut me off?

1527
01:51:49,619 --> 01:51:53,400
When you're ready, I got a proposal.

1528
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:56,937
Okay. I'm sure all these people would be
interested.

1529
01:51:56,937 --> 01:51:59,182
I'm glad to hear that and not me.

1530
01:51:59,182 --> 01:52:01,223
But I do think that, you know,

1531
01:52:01,223 --> 01:52:06,597
this is something that I don't think we're
going to be able to please everybody

1532
01:52:06,597 --> 01:52:11,223
ultimately. And I don't think we're ever
going to please the 4 or 5—

1533
01:52:11,223 --> 01:52:13,127
there's one missing tonight.

1534
01:52:13,127 --> 01:52:18,365
But I think Commissioner DeMarco again
said that well at one of our meetings.

1535
01:52:18,365 --> 01:52:23,875
The reason this is so hard is because we
like parts of it and we don't like parts

1536
01:52:23,875 --> 01:52:24,011
like parts of it and we don't like parts
of

1537
01:52:24,011 --> 01:52:28,841
it, and different ones of us like
different parts and dislike different

1538
01:52:28,841 --> 01:52:29,249
different parts and dislike different
parts.

1539
01:52:29,249 --> 01:52:31,222
So it's— Cut it down to size.

1540
01:52:31,222 --> 01:52:35,848
Yeah, well, yeah, and I think there's
something to be said for that.

1541
01:52:35,848 --> 01:52:41,222
At one point I thought we should just go
back to saying don't put a solid fence

1542
01:52:41,222 --> 01:52:41,494
back to saying don't put a solid fence
from

1543
01:52:41,494 --> 01:52:42,854
front to the street—

1544
01:52:42,854 --> 01:52:47,480
from back to the street down a shared
driveway and leave it at that.

1545
01:52:50,052 --> 01:52:50,698
Yes.

1546
01:52:50,698 --> 01:52:56,142
I think Commissioner Price has a great
point, trusting the wisdom of the

1547
01:52:56,142 --> 01:52:56,898
point, trusting the wisdom of the
neighbors.

1548
01:52:56,898 --> 01:53:03,174
But then, you know, I'm very disturbed by
hearing the story about a neighbor who is

1549
01:53:03,174 --> 01:53:07,786
suddenly, I guess, having heard that we
were working on this,

1550
01:53:07,786 --> 01:53:09,525
has now put up a solid—

1551
01:53:09,525 --> 01:53:15,348
or is putting up a solid wood 6-foot fence
all the way to their front street.

1552
01:53:15,348 --> 01:53:17,011
And that's disturbing.

1553
01:53:17,011 --> 01:53:22,531
That's very disturbing to me that, you
know, I wish that we could all go—

1554
01:53:22,531 --> 01:53:28,126
I'm going to ask Commissioner Price to
quote his James Madison quote here,

1555
01:53:28,126 --> 01:53:30,924
but if all men were angels and women.

1556
01:53:30,924 --> 01:53:36,973
But, you know, we have to have rules and
we have to have these rules and I think

1557
01:53:36,973 --> 01:53:38,636
that's been well said.

1558
01:53:38,636 --> 01:53:39,498
Thank you. Yes.

1559
01:53:39,498 --> 01:53:45,922
One of our neighbors who didn't come
tonight, but he spoke early on about this,

1560
01:53:45,922 --> 01:53:51,777
Brock Baker, said, you know, if you're
arguing against having any rules,

1561
01:53:51,777 --> 01:53:56,005
you've lost that already. That's— the law
is zoning.

1562
01:53:56,005 --> 01:54:01,942
We have zoning and zoning is nothing but
rules. And I think that's right.

1563
01:54:01,942 --> 01:54:08,366
And I think that having rules and some
consistency does improve property values

1564
01:54:08,366 --> 01:54:11,700
overall. I don't want us to overregulate.

1565
01:54:11,700 --> 01:54:15,196
And so I— after all, after saying all
that,

1566
01:54:15,196 --> 01:54:21,051
I'm not sure this is something that we can
quickly fix tonight, frankly.

1567
01:54:21,051 --> 01:54:25,117
But I'm certainly willing to listen to a
proposal.

1568
01:54:25,117 --> 01:54:27,560
I have a disagreement with you.

1569
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:30,319
I think we need to get this moving,

1570
01:54:30,319 --> 01:54:33,551
and this is the prime example, this lady—

1571
01:54:33,811 --> 01:54:38,322
this man and lady right here. Well, what I
think— let me take that back.

1572
01:54:38,322 --> 01:54:43,521
I would— I'm— I don't want to leave here
without passing the front yard prohibition

1573
01:54:43,521 --> 01:54:44,461
in A, B, and C.

1574
01:54:44,461 --> 01:54:51,989
Well, here's— I've got sort of a— I try to
draw a graph here.

1575
01:54:51,989 --> 01:54:58,899
Front yard, A no, B no, C no, No. D, 50%,
4-foot height.

1576
01:54:58,899 --> 01:55:06,797
E, 50% opacity, 4-foot height. F, 50%,
4-foot height. Rear yard.

1577
01:55:06,797 --> 01:55:14,201
A, solid fence, okay at 5 feet. B, okay
for solid at 5 feet.

1578
01:55:14,201 --> 01:55:20,001
For all C through F, 50% opaque, 5-foot
height.

1579
01:55:20,001 --> 01:55:25,677
Height, but if you want to have a solid
fence,

1580
01:55:25,677 --> 01:55:31,107
you can still have it within the
limitation—

1581
01:55:31,284 --> 01:55:41,263
what we call the accessory setbacks. When
I said— and that's C.

1582
01:55:44,263 --> 01:55:48,067
Solid fences would have to change that.

1583
01:55:48,067 --> 01:55:54,504
Well, Solid fences are— that would— this
would only apply to D, E,

1584
01:55:54,504 --> 01:56:00,064
and F when it says there's— excuse me, C,
D— C through F.

1585
01:56:00,064 --> 01:56:03,283
Where solid fences, 100% opacity,

1586
01:56:03,283 --> 01:56:10,988
are not permitted except for fences which
are within the setbacks applicable to

1587
01:56:10,988 --> 01:56:13,036
accessory structures.

1588
01:56:13,036 --> 01:56:20,352
See Section 14.132 from minimum yard
requirements for accessory structures,

1589
01:56:20,352 --> 01:56:23,765
pool houses, pools, and pool decks.

1590
01:56:23,765 --> 01:56:31,081
In addition, no part of any solid fence
shall be located closer to the side

1591
01:56:31,081 --> 01:56:38,786
property lines than the primary structure
is located to the side property line.

1592
01:56:38,786 --> 01:56:45,126
Solid fences must also comply with all
other 14-123 requirements.

1593
01:56:45,126 --> 01:56:51,759
So you could have on C, D, and F a pool or
some accessory structure.

1594
01:56:51,759 --> 01:56:58,879
You could still have a pool fence without
having a solid fence within the

1595
01:56:58,879 --> 01:57:02,000
accessory setback. This is just—

1596
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:04,263
Yeah. Just to point out on that,

1597
01:57:04,263 --> 01:57:09,921
we rewrote that so that you don't have to
have a pool or an accessory structure.

1598
01:57:09,921 --> 01:57:15,014
It's just fences within the setbacks
applicable to accessory structures.

1599
01:57:15,014 --> 01:57:17,984
That's a little bit of a nuance, but yeah.

1600
01:57:17,984 --> 01:57:22,298
In other words, you don't have to have
built something there.

1601
01:57:22,298 --> 01:57:27,674
It's just that's the— if you were going to
build something or put a pool in,

1602
01:57:27,674 --> 01:57:33,120
that's where you could have it. And now
you can have a solid fence down those

1603
01:57:33,120 --> 01:57:33,544
you can have a solid fence down those
lines.

1604
01:57:33,544 --> 01:57:37,637
Yes. If it's going to be a solid fence,
but again,

1605
01:57:37,637 --> 01:57:39,766
you can have a pool house,

1606
01:57:39,766 --> 01:57:42,140
a pool without a solid fence.

1607
01:57:42,140 --> 01:57:46,122
Again, it just goes back to there's so
much variability.

1608
01:57:46,122 --> 01:57:50,245
I'm thinking about the gentleman, I don't
know who it was,

1609
01:57:50,245 --> 01:57:56,005
but who lives in C on Glendale Lane and
has a corner lot so that the backyard now

1610
01:57:56,005 --> 01:58:00,484
under Under the way we're defining it for
accessory structures,

1611
01:58:00,484 --> 01:58:04,537
instead of being like this, is now going
to be like that.

1612
01:58:04,537 --> 01:58:10,082
And, you know, if the idea is to keep your
children from visibility, you know,

1613
01:58:10,082 --> 01:58:15,486
you're going to have a— not be able to use
much of your backyard. All right.

1614
01:58:15,486 --> 01:58:16,197
All right.

1615
01:58:16,262 --> 01:58:20,768
Then would you want to have solid as the

1616
01:58:20,768 --> 01:58:23,809
compromise to be okay on C?

1617
01:58:23,809 --> 01:58:25,724
For solid 5 feet.

1618
01:58:25,724 --> 01:58:26,981
For all rear foot fencing.

1619
01:58:26,981 --> 01:58:27,867
For rear foot.

1620
01:58:27,867 --> 01:58:33,866
Rear yard, you mean? Yeah. Did I say rear
foot? I'm thinking of horses.

1621
01:58:33,866 --> 01:58:35,950
Forefoot.

1622
01:58:35,950 --> 01:58:41,715
Okay. We got to do something.

1623
01:58:41,715 --> 01:58:46,478
Yeah, the logistics are kind of difficult
here because we want to do something.

1624
01:58:46,478 --> 01:58:50,036
We agree with parts of it. We don't agree
with parts of it.

1625
01:58:50,036 --> 01:58:54,257
I think the consensus is the backyard
fences and A, B, and possibly C,

1626
01:58:54,257 --> 01:58:57,211
and the height and how to measure where
they are.

1627
01:58:57,211 --> 01:58:59,382
Is it— let me ask the attorney this.

1628
01:58:59,382 --> 01:58:59,704
Yes.

1629
01:58:59,704 --> 01:59:05,563
Is it— what can— between the first and
second reading, you can make some changes,

1630
01:59:05,563 --> 01:59:11,494
but they can't be tremendous changes. All
these changes would be less restrictive.

1631
01:59:11,494 --> 01:59:17,064
Would it be possible to pass this tonight
and then between now and the second

1632
01:59:17,064 --> 01:59:22,995
reading make, make it looser to allow for
the backyard fences and still keep it on

1633
01:59:22,995 --> 01:59:27,769
track? Yeah, my recommendation is if
you're going to make changes,

1634
01:59:27,769 --> 01:59:30,735
make them tonight on first reading. Okay.

1635
01:59:30,735 --> 01:59:36,232
Just my suggestion is you go through this
Romanette 2 and And somebody move—

1636
01:59:36,232 --> 01:59:41,657
somebody who wants to do the word
smithing, move to amend where you want to

1637
01:59:41,657 --> 01:59:42,091
smithing, move to amend where you want to
amend.

1638
01:59:42,091 --> 01:59:47,589
And I don't think it's going to be that
complicated listening to all of you.

1639
01:59:47,589 --> 01:59:52,435
I don't really think— I think number 1,
everybody agrees with that.

1640
01:59:52,435 --> 01:59:54,894
Okay, so you don't touch number 1.

1641
01:59:54,894 --> 01:59:58,222
That says no front yard fences in A, B,
and C,

1642
01:59:58,222 --> 02:00:01,983
and then you can have front yard fences D,
E, and F.

1643
02:00:01,983 --> 02:00:04,442
At not to exceed 4 feet in height.

1644
02:00:04,442 --> 02:00:10,229
I haven't heard anybody— now, somebody
might want to go up in that height for D,

1645
02:00:10,229 --> 02:00:10,374
might want to go up in that height for D,
E,

1646
02:00:10,374 --> 02:00:14,714
and F, but I haven't heard that. So you
could leave 1 alone.

1647
02:00:14,714 --> 02:00:19,922
Then you get to number 2, and it says a
fence in the rear yard of a lot.

1648
02:00:19,922 --> 02:00:23,249
And then where it says which is in
District D,

1649
02:00:23,249 --> 02:00:27,010
just take that out so that you're not
treating A, B,

1650
02:00:27,010 --> 02:00:30,555
and C differently when it comes to the
rear yard.

1651
02:00:30,555 --> 02:00:35,763
And just say a fence located in the rear
yard of a lot shall not exceed,

1652
02:00:35,763 --> 02:00:37,426
and select your height.

1653
02:00:37,426 --> 02:00:43,141
I've heard some people say they're fine
with 5, but if somebody wanted to do 6,

1654
02:00:43,141 --> 02:00:45,528
I've heard a lot of people say 6.

1655
02:00:45,528 --> 02:00:51,314
So that would be the first amendment,
would be to take out which is in Districts

1656
02:00:51,314 --> 02:00:51,459
would be to take out which is in Districts
D,

1657
02:00:51,459 --> 02:00:55,799
E, and F, shall not exceed, and then pick
your height there.

1658
02:00:55,799 --> 02:01:01,007
If you're fine with 5, leave it. If you
want to do 6, put that in there.

1659
02:01:01,007 --> 02:01:06,938
Then, I believe 3 can just, I think, can
just come out. I think. Isn't that right?

1660
02:01:06,938 --> 02:01:10,772
Because haven't you covered everything at
that point?

1661
02:01:10,772 --> 02:01:14,475
What about D and F in the front?

1662
02:01:14,475 --> 02:01:18,991
In the front. Yeah, you're right. Yeah,
that's covered number 1.

1663
02:01:18,991 --> 02:01:21,320
Yeah, so you can just take 3 out.

1664
02:01:21,320 --> 02:01:25,766
But you've got to figure out what your
pleasure is on number 2,

1665
02:01:25,766 --> 02:01:31,693
whether you want 5 or you want to go up to
6, because I've heard different comments.

1666
02:01:31,693 --> 02:01:34,304
And then 4 is the one that will take—

1667
02:01:34,304 --> 02:01:37,903
I'm a little confused on what you're
wanting there,

1668
02:01:37,903 --> 02:01:40,797
and I think you all are not in agreement.

1669
02:01:40,797 --> 02:01:44,466
But I would say that figure out what you
want to do,

1670
02:01:44,466 --> 02:01:48,488
but the way you can word it is solid
fences and then set—

1671
02:01:48,488 --> 02:01:50,535
Instead of are not permitted,

1672
02:01:50,535 --> 02:01:54,910
say are permitted in the rear yard in
Districts such and such,

1673
02:01:54,910 --> 02:01:58,862
and then figure out whether you want it in
the setbacks.

1674
02:01:58,862 --> 02:02:04,366
And then I think you're done with it.
Marshall, I got a graph. Can you look at

1675
02:02:04,366 --> 02:02:04,719
Marshall, I got a graph. Can you look at
this?

1676
02:02:04,719 --> 02:02:07,739
Well, we hadn't done anything with 5.

1677
02:02:07,739 --> 02:02:12,430
I don't think you need to. Opacity of all
other facilities.

1678
02:02:12,430 --> 02:02:16,724
So that's anything you haven't covered in
1 through 4.

1679
02:02:16,724 --> 02:02:22,290
And you may not want to have any opacity
regulations. That's fine too.

1680
02:02:22,290 --> 02:02:24,278
You can just take it out.

1681
02:02:24,278 --> 02:02:30,559
But I haven't heard a lot of— I haven't
heard of consensus or even suggestions,

1682
02:02:30,559 --> 02:02:33,819
except of course from Commissioner Price.

1683
02:02:33,819 --> 02:02:41,191
I just want to be sure. There's the graph
I've got.

1684
02:02:41,191 --> 02:02:45,094
You're out of order, ma'am.

1685
02:02:45,094 --> 02:02:52,901
Ma'am Jones, if you can just hold if you
can just hold

1686
02:02:52,901 --> 02:02:58,249
on for a minute. We we've passed the.

1687
02:02:58,249 --> 02:03:01,140
Public hearing part,

1688
02:03:01,140 --> 02:03:08,946
and we're now trying to figure out what
we're doing up

1689
02:03:08,946 --> 02:03:15,307
here. So thank you. Oh, I don't think
we're—

1690
02:03:15,307 --> 02:03:22,824
we're not worried about chain-link fences
right now.

1691
02:03:22,824 --> 02:03:28,317
Solid. Solid. Solid. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

1692
02:03:28,398 --> 02:03:29,146
Okay. On C.

1693
02:03:29,472 --> 02:03:30,067
All right, now—

1694
02:03:30,067 --> 02:03:32,510
But it'd be 5 feet in height.

1695
02:03:32,510 --> 02:03:39,332
So you're going to get 5-foot height solid
in A, B, and C up to 5 feet in height.

1696
02:03:39,332 --> 02:03:43,374
Okay. And then— And then what about D, E,
and F?

1697
02:03:43,374 --> 02:03:50,028
All right, the front yards, 50% of them.
That's all taken care of. 50%, 5-foot.

1698
02:03:50,028 --> 02:03:54,997
And if a guy wants to have a solid fence
in D, A, E, and F,

1699
02:03:54,997 --> 02:03:58,956
you've got to comply with that one right
there.

1700
02:03:58,956 --> 02:04:01,947
Okay. All right, who's going to put,

1701
02:04:01,947 --> 02:04:06,267
put this out in words so the rest of us
can hear it?

1702
02:04:06,267 --> 02:04:12,190
I am. I'm going to try, Mayor. Mr. Mayor,
let me make a comment, please.

1703
02:04:12,190 --> 02:04:18,277
Um, I'm going to ask everyone to hold
your, uh, conversations to yourself.

1704
02:04:18,277 --> 02:04:24,529
The reason being is that I don't mind you
really talking amongst yourselves,

1705
02:04:24,529 --> 02:04:30,863
but our recorder is in the back of the
room and she is taking down all of the

1706
02:04:30,863 --> 02:04:34,483
changes for us to be able to read this
back.

1707
02:04:34,483 --> 02:04:39,583
So for other— for her to hear that, we
need quiet in the room.

1708
02:04:39,583 --> 02:04:46,164
So if you want to speak, you're fine to do
that, but we ask you to step outside.

1709
02:04:46,164 --> 02:04:46,389
Thank you.

1710
02:04:46,889 --> 02:04:48,718
But while we're in this process,

1711
02:04:48,718 --> 02:04:53,235
our recorder's in the back room because
she has a computer back there and she's

1712
02:04:53,235 --> 02:04:57,008
making these changes as we go. I just want
to make a point to you.

1713
02:04:57,008 --> 02:04:58,894
We're not mad at you or anything.

1714
02:04:58,894 --> 02:05:03,353
We just need you to be quiet so we can— so
she can hear all the nuances. Okay.

1715
02:05:03,353 --> 02:05:05,754
Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1716
02:05:05,754 --> 02:05:09,112
Thank you. All right.

1717
02:05:09,112 --> 02:05:13,430
While y'all are doing that,

1718
02:05:13,430 --> 02:05:20,787
I think I'll just go ahead and make a
couple I

1719
02:05:20,787 --> 02:05:25,904
have a couple of other comments.

1720
02:05:25,904 --> 02:05:32,781
I'm just— I'm surprised other than A and
B,

1721
02:05:32,781 --> 02:05:40,297
which I do agree with about the solid
fences in

1722
02:05:40,297 --> 02:05:47,974
the back. You know, you were talking about
in A,

1723
02:05:47,974 --> 02:05:55,490
B, C, and D only in the solid fence only
in the

1724
02:05:55,490 --> 02:05:57,889
accessory area.

1725
02:05:57,889 --> 02:05:59,940
No, no.

1726
02:05:59,940 --> 02:06:01,274
Is that what— I thought that's what—

1727
02:06:01,274 --> 02:06:03,548
No. saying is—

1728
02:06:03,564 --> 02:06:07,144
hold on, hold on, I'm asking to walk up.

1729
02:06:07,144 --> 02:06:11,260
Um, oh, A, B, and C, solid fences in the
back.

1730
02:06:11,260 --> 02:06:14,661
The entire back or the accessory back?

1731
02:06:14,661 --> 02:06:19,019
Um, certainly the entire back in A and B.
Yes.

1732
02:06:19,019 --> 02:06:23,094
Um, C, I'm willing to discuss. You're
what?

1733
02:06:23,094 --> 02:06:27,831
I couldn't— He's— I'm just answering his
question.

1734
02:06:27,831 --> 02:06:30,025
Yeah, I'm just asking about I think I got
it.

1735
02:06:30,090 --> 02:06:32,732
I'll read it to you and you see what you
think.

1736
02:06:32,732 --> 02:06:38,060
The guy facing the tent? Yeah, I do. All
right.

1737
02:06:38,060 --> 02:06:38,511
All right.

1738
02:06:38,946 --> 02:06:39,671
You all finished?

1739
02:06:39,671 --> 02:06:40,622
Yeah.

1740
02:06:40,622 --> 02:06:41,540
Okay.

1741
02:06:41,540 --> 02:06:47,922
And I think that— Make sure you're
speaking into that mic. Yes, sir, I will.

1742
02:06:47,922 --> 02:06:50,357
All right. This is a subject—

1743
02:06:50,357 --> 02:06:55,060
listening to what especially Commissioner
Evans has Yes.

1744
02:06:55,060 --> 02:07:01,610
And that's what we just kind of started
with, and I've heard other discussion.

1745
02:07:01,610 --> 02:07:06,648
It's a suggestion only trying to coalesce
all that verbiage.

1746
02:07:06,648 --> 02:07:12,274
So we're in Enrollment Act 2, Section D.
Number 1 would stay as is.

1747
02:07:12,274 --> 02:07:18,320
That's fences are not permitted in front
yards in Districts A, B, and C.

1748
02:07:18,320 --> 02:07:22,015
are permitted in front yards in D, E, and
F,

1749
02:07:22,015 --> 02:07:26,046
provided they shall not exceed 4 feet in
height.

1750
02:07:26,046 --> 02:07:31,548
Okay. No change to that?

1751
02:07:31,548 --> 02:07:36,919
No change. And then you would read 5 into
that because the opacity

1752
02:07:36,919 --> 02:07:41,232
of fences shall be consistently not in
excess of 50%.

1753
02:07:41,232 --> 02:07:46,684
So that's going to cover the opacity of
fences in the front yard of

1754
02:07:46,684 --> 02:07:47,661
D, E, and F.

1755
02:07:47,661 --> 02:07:49,331
So you have to add 5?

1756
02:07:49,331 --> 02:07:53,676
It just covers it. Just remember, you
don't add it.

1757
02:07:53,676 --> 02:08:00,066
Just remember it says the opacity of all
other fences shall be consistently

1758
02:08:00,066 --> 02:08:01,855
not in excess of 50%.

1759
02:08:01,855 --> 02:08:03,412
Got it. Okay.

1760
02:08:03,412 --> 02:08:06,062
So that's going to apply. That is going to
apply.

1761
02:08:06,062 --> 02:08:09,865
Okay. All right. Let me check with the
recorder.

1762
02:08:09,865 --> 02:08:13,588
Desiree, are you getting— Are you getting
this,

1763
02:08:13,588 --> 02:08:15,331
or is this impossible?

1764
02:08:15,331 --> 02:08:23,286
Now, that's— sit up here with me.

1765
02:08:23,286 --> 02:08:26,123
That's a good idea.

1766
02:08:26,123 --> 02:08:29,905
As you all can tell,

1767
02:08:29,905 --> 02:08:35,956
our city recorder is Absolutely.

1768
02:08:35,956 --> 02:08:43,142
I'm going to keep talking through this

1769
02:08:43,142 --> 02:08:47,870
and she can look at that.

1770
02:08:48,015 --> 02:08:48,337
Okay.

1771
02:08:48,804 --> 02:08:53,702
So again, 1 stays the same and the opacity
of the front yard fences in D, E,

1772
02:08:53,702 --> 02:08:56,280
and F is going to be covered by 5. Okay.

1773
02:08:56,280 --> 02:09:00,856
So you're going to have 4-foot fences in
the front yard of D, E, and F,

1774
02:09:00,856 --> 02:09:03,176
but they're going to be 50% opacity.

1775
02:09:03,176 --> 02:09:07,623
And you're not going to have fences in the
front yard in A, B, and C.

1776
02:09:07,623 --> 02:09:08,538
Got it.

1777
02:09:08,538 --> 02:09:11,604
2, now we've moved to the rear yard,

1778
02:09:11,604 --> 02:09:17,736
and all we're going to do is take out
which is in Districts D, E, and F.

1779
02:09:17,736 --> 02:09:22,335
So now it will read, a fence located in
the rear yard—

1780
02:09:22,335 --> 02:09:27,701
and you've got the parenthetical, which
doesn't need to change—

1781
02:09:27,701 --> 02:09:33,663
shall not exceed 5 feet in height. Unless
you want to go to 6. Can we?

1782
02:09:33,663 --> 02:09:40,050
I would go to 6. You would stay at 5? I'd
like to have the compromise at 5.

1783
02:09:40,050 --> 02:09:46,353
I'm 5 for the 10. What's the point of a
privacy fence if it comes to here?

1784
02:09:46,353 --> 02:09:48,056
You're out of order.

1785
02:09:48,056 --> 02:09:52,759
Okay. Yeah. Well, I'm less moved by that,
I suppose,

1786
02:09:52,759 --> 02:09:58,638
than I am about About dogs that I think I
heard the minimum was 6

1787
02:09:58,638 --> 02:09:59,904
feet for that.

1788
02:09:59,904 --> 02:10:02,907
Most, all but the very largest.

1789
02:10:02,907 --> 02:10:08,189
Okay. Yeah. That's a rare dog that can
jump a 5-foot fence.

1790
02:10:08,189 --> 02:10:10,116
Can we each give our thoughts on that?

1791
02:10:10,116 --> 02:10:11,369
On that particular point?

1792
02:10:11,369 --> 02:10:12,380
On that particular point.

1793
02:10:12,380 --> 02:10:12,733
Okay.

1794
02:10:12,733 --> 02:10:15,736
Because that'll solve that sentence.

1795
02:10:15,736 --> 02:10:17,871
Okay. Okay. Go.

1796
02:10:17,871 --> 02:10:18,417
6 feet.

1797
02:10:19,590 --> 02:10:20,103
For 6 feet?

1798
02:10:20,103 --> 02:10:20,633
Yeah, for 6.

1799
02:10:20,633 --> 02:10:23,940
Okay. All right. What are you— you're for
5?

1800
02:10:23,940 --> 02:10:27,698
I like 5, but I can tell I'm about to be
outvoted.

1801
02:10:27,698 --> 02:10:28,822
He would go for 6.

1802
02:10:28,822 --> 02:10:31,407
6, right? Okay. And go to 6.

1803
02:10:32,306 --> 02:10:33,286
Oh, what is it going to be?

1804
02:10:33,286 --> 02:10:36,015
Just— I'm going to say 6.

1805
02:10:36,015 --> 02:10:39,837
Okay. Um, these are only rear yard fences
now.

1806
02:10:39,837 --> 02:10:40,881
Yeah, rear yard.

1807
02:10:40,881 --> 02:10:47,505
Yeah, I'm afraid we're building a coffin
to folks in the You get 6 feet in A, B,

1808
02:10:47,505 --> 02:10:54,211
and C in the rear yard, I'm just afraid
that— Okay. Then number 3 would come out.

1809
02:10:54,211 --> 02:10:56,502
Yeah.

1810
02:10:56,502 --> 02:10:58,318
There would just be no need for it.

1811
02:10:58,318 --> 02:10:58,784
That's right.

1812
02:10:58,784 --> 02:11:06,843
So now, 4 becomes number 3, and we're
moving to the backyard with solid fences.

1813
02:11:06,843 --> 02:11:13,269
And I think, based on what I've heard, I
think this will do it.

1814
02:11:13,269 --> 02:11:19,593
Solid Solid fences, 100% opacity, are
permitted— take out not—

1815
02:11:19,593 --> 02:11:26,224
are permitted in the rear yards of
Districts A, B, and C, period.

1816
02:11:26,224 --> 02:11:33,364
Solid fences are permitted in the rear
yards of Districts D, E, and F,

1817
02:11:33,364 --> 02:11:38,669
except That such fences must be within the
setbacks.

1818
02:11:38,669 --> 02:11:46,013
And then it just stays the way it is
applicable to accessory structures.

1819
02:11:46,013 --> 02:11:48,582
Okay. Can you, can you do that again?

1820
02:11:48,582 --> 02:11:53,645
Yeah. So the first sentence is just going
to apply to A, B, and C,

1821
02:11:53,645 --> 02:11:55,563
and it says solid fences,

1822
02:11:55,563 --> 02:12:00,934
100% opacity are permitted in the rear
yards of Districts A, B, and C.

1823
02:12:00,934 --> 02:12:03,235
And then in the next sentence,

1824
02:12:03,235 --> 02:12:09,219
what we're going to do is say they're
permitted in the rear yards of D, E, and

1825
02:12:09,219 --> 02:12:09,373
permitted in the rear yards of D, E, and
F,

1826
02:12:09,373 --> 02:12:13,976
but they have to be within the accessory
structure setbacks.

1827
02:12:13,976 --> 02:12:16,584
That's going to be the difference.

1828
02:12:16,584 --> 02:12:22,875
You can have a 100% solid privacy, 100%
opacity in A, B, and C up to the lot line,

1829
02:12:22,875 --> 02:12:27,018
and in D, E, and F, you can only— You
can't have that.

1830
02:12:27,018 --> 02:12:31,698
do it within the setbacks applicable to
accessory structures.

1831
02:12:31,698 --> 02:12:33,899
Within D, E, and F?

1832
02:12:33,899 --> 02:12:40,003
In D, E, and F. So you're keeping that
accessory structure for the larger lot.

1833
02:12:40,003 --> 02:12:42,741
You're going to pull that fence in.

1834
02:12:42,741 --> 02:12:46,732
It doesn't mean they can't put a boundary
fence up.

1835
02:12:46,732 --> 02:12:49,314
It just won't be a privacy fence.

1836
02:12:49,314 --> 02:12:54,870
So somebody, you know, in D, E, and F
could have a fence in their yard,

1837
02:12:54,870 --> 02:13:00,191
but they have a pool. Or they don't have
to make it a privacy fence.

1838
02:13:00,191 --> 02:13:03,008
It can be typical pool fence. Right.

1839
02:13:03,008 --> 02:13:09,581
So that's what I've been hearing, and that
goes along with your graph that you made.

1840
02:13:09,581 --> 02:13:15,763
And then I believe the only other change
would be to go past the parenthetical.

1841
02:13:15,763 --> 02:13:20,301
In addition, no part of any solid fence In
Districts D, E,

1842
02:13:20,301 --> 02:13:26,405
and F shall be closer to the side property
lines than the primary structure is

1843
02:13:26,405 --> 02:13:29,065
located at the side property line.

1844
02:13:29,065 --> 02:13:35,560
So it's, again, that bringing that fence
in to the accessory structure boundary is,

1845
02:13:35,560 --> 02:13:40,020
is being done in D, E, and F and not done
in A, B, and C,

1846
02:13:40,020 --> 02:13:43,933
I suppose because of the size of those
small lots.

1847
02:13:43,933 --> 02:13:44,095
Yes.

1848
02:13:44,286 --> 02:13:48,666
I make a motion that we amend the
ordinance,

1849
02:13:48,666 --> 02:13:52,647
the proposed ordinance on first reading,

1850
02:13:52,647 --> 02:13:57,524
to include the changes just described by
Attorney

1851
02:13:57,524 --> 02:14:01,406
Albritton. And shown on the— All right.

1852
02:14:04,110 --> 02:14:09,175
You can make a motion to amend. That was
by Evans. Is there a second?

1853
02:14:11,451 --> 02:14:14,790
I'll second for purposes of discussion and
ask a question.

1854
02:14:14,790 --> 02:14:16,790
Okay, DeMarco seconds.

1855
02:14:16,790 --> 02:14:18,145
Motion to amend, right?

1856
02:14:18,145 --> 02:14:19,516
Motion to amend.

1857
02:14:19,516 --> 02:14:26,542
Let me add, by the way, if y'all think
we're overregulating,

1858
02:14:26,542 --> 02:14:30,641
go to Forest Hills and Belle Meade,

1859
02:14:30,641 --> 02:14:38,019
and there's some other cities and places
like Lookout Mountain,

1860
02:14:38,019 --> 02:14:41,298
Mountain Brook. Yes, he did.

1861
02:14:41,298 --> 02:14:45,004
Okay, so my— I had a question about that,

1862
02:14:45,004 --> 02:14:49,703
and that's where is it that we define the
rear yard?

1863
02:14:49,703 --> 02:14:53,138
Is that— that's in 2, is that correct?

1864
02:14:53,138 --> 02:14:58,086
Uh, no, your, your rear yard is defined in
the ordinance.

1865
02:14:58,086 --> 02:15:01,038
There's a definition of rear yard,

1866
02:15:01,038 --> 02:15:06,073
but There are some conditions because it
says in number 2,

1867
02:15:06,073 --> 02:15:10,240
it says a fence located in the rear yard
of lot,

1868
02:15:10,240 --> 02:15:17,272
including any section of the fence from
the rear corners of the primary structure

1869
02:15:17,272 --> 02:15:17,446
the rear corners of the primary structure
to

1870
02:15:17,446 --> 02:15:22,134
the side lot line. That's where your rear
yard starts.

1871
02:15:22,134 --> 02:15:25,815
A fence located in the rear yard of a lot,

1872
02:15:25,815 --> 02:15:32,038
including any section of the fence from
the rear corners of the primary

1873
02:15:32,038 --> 02:15:35,720
structure. Okay. And then we took care of—

1874
02:15:35,720 --> 02:15:39,051
that may be why we need to leave 3 in,

1875
02:15:39,051 --> 02:15:45,800
because if we have somebody who's got a
fence going from the front corners to

1876
02:15:45,800 --> 02:15:52,286
the side, then that's going to be limited
to the same level as what we had

1877
02:15:52,286 --> 02:15:56,230
decided for the Well, that's what you've
got.

1878
02:15:56,294 --> 02:15:57,989
Yeah, yeah, you may be right.

1879
02:15:57,989 --> 02:16:00,503
If you all don't want to change that,
then—

1880
02:16:00,503 --> 02:16:03,134
so you've got what the mayor's talking
about.

1881
02:16:03,134 --> 02:16:06,817
You're looking at a house and you've got—
you're going to have—

1882
02:16:06,817 --> 02:16:09,330
you're allowing a 6-foot fence in the
rear.

1883
02:16:09,330 --> 02:16:13,715
What are you going to do between the
corners of that house and the side lot

1884
02:16:13,715 --> 02:16:14,007
corners of that house and the side lot
line?

1885
02:16:14,007 --> 02:16:16,813
Do you want that to be 6 feet to match the
rear,

1886
02:16:16,813 --> 02:16:21,373
or do you want that to be 4 feet so it's
lower? I think it's 6 feet. I'd say 4

1887
02:16:21,373 --> 02:16:21,665
lower? I think it's 6 feet. I'd say 4
feet.

1888
02:16:21,665 --> 02:16:24,705
Then you leave number 3 in? Leave number 3
in. Okay.

1889
02:16:24,705 --> 02:16:28,352
Well, that's what— that's again, that was
a compromise.

1890
02:16:28,352 --> 02:16:33,326
That's what we came up with last time in
trying to decide whether to treat,

1891
02:16:33,326 --> 02:16:35,647
you know, how to treat a side yard.

1892
02:16:35,647 --> 02:16:39,759
Is it from the back corners of the house
or the front corners?

1893
02:16:39,759 --> 02:16:40,097
Right.

1894
02:16:40,097 --> 02:16:41,031
Yeah. Okay.

1895
02:16:43,889 --> 02:16:48,574
So you've clarified that somebody will
need to make that—

1896
02:16:48,574 --> 02:16:54,327
if you want to do that, Mr. Evans, you
want to make that motion again?

1897
02:16:54,327 --> 02:16:59,423
I make— let me withdraw my motion and make
a new motion. Okay.

1898
02:16:59,423 --> 02:17:05,094
I make a motion. Now, you've described it,
just to be sure, Marshall.

1899
02:17:05,094 --> 02:17:08,628
Yes, sir. That paragraph 3 is still in
now.

1900
02:17:08,628 --> 02:17:09,063
That's right.

1901
02:17:09,256 --> 02:17:12,478
Okay, so with that understanding,

1902
02:17:12,478 --> 02:17:17,945
I make a motion that we amend at first
reading the fence

1903
02:17:17,945 --> 02:17:20,260
ordinance, which is—

1904
02:17:23,260 --> 02:17:26,127
I don't have the— what's the ordinance
number?

1905
02:17:26,127 --> 02:17:29,164
2026-5.

1906
02:17:29,164 --> 02:17:30,192
Thank you.

1907
02:17:30,192 --> 02:17:33,142
And then, Mr. DeMarco, do you want to
second that again?

1908
02:17:33,142 --> 02:17:34,880
Yes, I'll I'll second that again.

1909
02:17:34,880 --> 02:17:38,726
Okay, so now we're back on just discussing
whether you want to make those

1910
02:17:38,726 --> 02:17:39,305
amendments.

1911
02:17:39,305 --> 02:17:43,941
Okay, so thank you, we're back on that.

1912
02:17:43,941 --> 02:17:49,171
So Commissioner DeMarco, you had a
question.

1913
02:17:49,171 --> 02:17:52,143
You said, should we move—

1914
02:17:52,726 --> 02:17:55,068
5 only applies to Item 1 now.

1915
02:17:55,068 --> 02:18:00,319
I'll just make this as a separate— let's
get this one cleared up.

1916
02:18:00,319 --> 02:18:05,811
It applies to every fence except what's in
4. Okay. Then never mind.

1917
02:18:05,811 --> 02:18:10,092
And those— that's the privacy fence in the
rear yard.

1918
02:18:10,092 --> 02:18:15,019
If it's not a solid fence, it can't be
more than 50% opacity.

1919
02:18:15,019 --> 02:18:20,404
And that applies to D, E, and F.

1920
02:18:20,404 --> 02:18:23,881
It applies to all fences.

1921
02:18:23,881 --> 02:18:24,577
Everything.

1922
02:18:24,577 --> 02:18:30,816
Except paragraph 4. where you have solid
fences are permitted in the rear yards of

1923
02:18:30,816 --> 02:18:35,990
A, B, and C, and they're permitted in the
rear yards of D, E, and F,

1924
02:18:35,990 --> 02:18:38,957
but only within the accessory setbacks.

1925
02:18:38,957 --> 02:18:45,569
Okay. Right. So all— okay. So the opacity
then applies.

1926
02:18:45,569 --> 02:18:49,897
Does the— does the— Accessory lines,

1927
02:18:49,897 --> 02:18:53,023
setback lines on the rear,

1928
02:18:53,023 --> 02:18:59,515
are they contiguous with the rear property
line or are

1929
02:18:59,515 --> 02:19:04,925
they some recess from the rear property
line?

1930
02:19:04,925 --> 02:19:07,240
They are recessed. They are recessed,

1931
02:19:07,240 --> 02:19:10,806
but you're only talking about doing this
for D, E, and F.

1932
02:19:10,806 --> 02:19:15,124
A, B, and C, you're letting them go all
the way to the property line,

1933
02:19:15,124 --> 02:19:19,566
I suppose because of the lot are smaller,
and when the lots are bigger,

1934
02:19:19,566 --> 02:19:22,006
you're pulling those privacy fences in.

1935
02:19:22,006 --> 02:19:23,974
So does this say that on A, B, and C,

1936
02:19:23,974 --> 02:19:27,273
that it can go all the way to the rear
property line? It does.

1937
02:19:27,321 --> 02:19:31,590
The first sentence says solid fences are
permitted in the rear yards of Districts

1938
02:19:31,590 --> 02:19:31,696
permitted in the rear yards of Districts
A,

1939
02:19:31,696 --> 02:19:32,170
B, and C.

1940
02:19:32,170 --> 02:19:32,668
Ah.

1941
02:19:32,668 --> 02:19:35,044
Period. It's just very simple.

1942
02:19:35,044 --> 02:19:37,886
Yeah, you're right. I see that. I see
that.

1943
02:19:38,159 --> 02:19:43,223
Good. And then the next sentence says
solid fences are permitted In the rear

1944
02:19:43,223 --> 02:19:43,556
solid fences are permitted In the rear
yards

1945
02:19:43,556 --> 02:19:48,086
of Districts D, E, and F within the
setbacks applicable to accessory

1946
02:19:48,086 --> 02:19:49,019
setbacks applicable to accessory
structures and

1947
02:19:49,019 --> 02:19:50,618
then that parenthetical.

1948
02:19:50,618 --> 02:19:51,919
Mm-hmm.

1949
02:19:51,919 --> 02:19:57,166
And then it says, in addition, no part of
any solid fence in Districts D, E,

1950
02:19:57,166 --> 02:19:58,616
and F shall be close—

1951
02:19:58,616 --> 02:20:04,278
located closer to the side property lines
than the primary structure is located to

1952
02:20:04,278 --> 02:20:05,935
the side property lines.

1953
02:20:05,935 --> 02:20:10,975
So you're preserving all those changes you
made trying to pull things in.

1954
02:20:10,975 --> 02:20:12,701
4 districts, D, E, and F.

1955
02:20:12,701 --> 02:20:18,017
And then solid fences must also comply
with the other requirements of 14-123.

1956
02:20:18,017 --> 02:20:22,781
So what we've done, we're now before—
after first reading as amended.

1957
02:20:22,781 --> 02:20:25,831
But it hadn't been amended yet.

1958
02:20:25,831 --> 02:20:28,641
Okay, that's— that is on the table.

1959
02:20:28,641 --> 02:20:30,215
Okay, so that's on the table.

1960
02:20:30,215 --> 02:20:30,648
Seconded.

1961
02:20:30,648 --> 02:20:35,640
Let's have a vote. Moved and seconded. And
so let me just Yes.

1962
02:20:35,640 --> 02:20:41,921
I would just say I'm still just not very
comfortable with this except for what

1963
02:20:41,921 --> 02:20:42,324
comfortable with this except for what
we're

1964
02:20:42,324 --> 02:20:45,706
doing for front yard fences in A, B and C.

1965
02:20:45,706 --> 02:20:47,397
You know, it sort of—

1966
02:20:47,397 --> 02:20:54,080
I sort of thought we were beginning with
the idea that we didn't want to have a lot

1967
02:20:54,080 --> 02:21:00,844
of enclosed properties in Oak Hill and now
it looks like we are going all the way to

1968
02:21:00,844 --> 02:21:05,514
enclosing as many properties as we can
with 6-foot fences,

1969
02:21:05,514 --> 02:21:11,231
even if they've got 50% opacity. And
that's not where I thought we were

1970
02:21:11,231 --> 02:21:11,876
that's not where I thought we were
heading.

1971
02:21:11,876 --> 02:21:17,432
I didn't think that's where the tenor of
most people's comments were,

1972
02:21:17,432 --> 02:21:21,860
and I didn't think that we were going to
wind up there.

1973
02:21:21,860 --> 02:21:28,463
And so— and let me be the first to admit
that in spite of the number of hours that

1974
02:21:28,463 --> 02:21:33,697
I've sat through this, Not tonight, but
other nights and tonight.

1975
02:21:33,697 --> 02:21:38,690
I'm not an expert on fences. I'm not an
expert on landscaping.

1976
02:21:38,690 --> 02:21:43,763
And I don't think any of the rest of us
are on this commission.

1977
02:21:43,763 --> 02:21:47,064
And, and, and are you? Maybe you are now.

1978
02:21:47,064 --> 02:21:51,757
Anybody that can try to describe a
Chain-link fence, right?

1979
02:21:51,757 --> 02:21:53,825
Artfully, as he described.

1980
02:21:54,613 --> 02:21:58,535
That's right. Sorry about that.

1981
02:21:58,535 --> 02:22:05,492
But I think, I think that we— please,
please. We can't.

1982
02:22:05,492 --> 02:22:13,170
We can't. Okay. All right. All right.

1983
02:22:16,170 --> 02:22:17,944
Because D is just—

1984
02:22:17,944 --> 02:22:24,743
All right. Well, we haven't gotten to
that, but we will.

1985
02:22:24,743 --> 02:22:27,779
Well, we may not. Anyway,

1986
02:22:27,779 --> 02:22:32,271
I'm just not really thrilled with it.

1987
02:22:32,271 --> 02:22:33,435
What is your concern?

1988
02:22:33,435 --> 02:22:39,057
My concern is that we're going to have a
whole lot of fences around properties in

1989
02:22:39,057 --> 02:22:42,111
Oak Hill and in spite of the fact that,
yes,

1990
02:22:42,111 --> 02:22:46,970
you can see them when When you drive down
Franklin Pike, I mean, yeah,

1991
02:22:46,970 --> 02:22:52,315
and they are lovely and they are all
different. Right. Which would you drive?

1992
02:22:52,315 --> 02:22:57,104
I am not sure. Well, I don't know. I mean,
it depends on the context.

1993
02:22:57,104 --> 02:22:57,363
I know.

1994
02:22:57,363 --> 02:23:01,014
Well, hold on. Let me just finish. Let me
just finish.

1995
02:23:01,014 --> 02:23:03,854
Frankly, you know, the concern I have had,

1996
02:23:03,854 --> 02:23:09,467
and this was the one that the Chairman of
the Planning Commission And that is that,

1997
02:23:09,467 --> 02:23:15,011
you know, we didn't really employ anybody
to help us design this ordinance like we

1998
02:23:15,011 --> 02:23:20,083
did when we did the bulk building
standards. And, you know, he did a lot of

1999
02:23:20,083 --> 02:23:20,421
standards. And, you know, he did a lot of
work.

2000
02:23:20,421 --> 02:23:25,898
We had to pay him, but he was somebody who
could bring in a perspective that knew

2001
02:23:25,898 --> 02:23:30,293
things that I certainly didn't know. I
think that's a good point.

2002
02:23:30,293 --> 02:23:35,297
And I think we do need to have an
ordinance on it because I don't think we

2003
02:23:35,297 --> 02:23:35,770
ordinance on it because I don't think we
want to

2004
02:23:35,770 --> 02:23:40,503
have just willy-nilly people putting up
all different kinds of fences.

2005
02:23:40,503 --> 02:23:43,952
I mean, I have to say that I think that
that would—

2006
02:23:43,952 --> 02:23:46,589
we would not be happy with the outcome.

2007
02:23:46,589 --> 02:23:52,134
As much as we might say we want to have
absolute sovereignty over our own property

2008
02:23:52,134 --> 02:23:55,582
and what we do on it, we wouldn't be happy
with it.

2009
02:23:55,582 --> 02:23:58,084
We wouldn't be happy with the result.

2010
02:23:58,084 --> 02:23:58,375
Yes, sir.

2011
02:23:59,649 --> 02:24:04,023
So we've got to do something. But I'm
just— I'm concerned.

2012
02:24:04,023 --> 02:24:07,266
I'm concerned about the solid board
fences.

2013
02:24:07,266 --> 02:24:13,375
I'm also concerned and I'm conflicted on
that because I hear people talking about

2014
02:24:13,375 --> 02:24:19,409
children and children living in a world
that was not the one that either I or my

2015
02:24:19,409 --> 02:24:23,104
children grew up in. And that's concerning
to me.

2016
02:24:23,104 --> 02:24:28,912
So I feel like we've got to do something.
Whether this does it, I don't know.

2017
02:24:28,912 --> 02:24:35,020
I suppose the only thing that I would say
in favor of doing this beyond the front

2018
02:24:35,020 --> 02:24:40,526
fences in the front yards of A, B, and C
is that we need to do something.

2019
02:24:40,526 --> 02:24:43,920
Let's do this and then let's see how it
goes.

2020
02:24:43,920 --> 02:24:49,652
And And if a lot of people have problems
with it, they've run into problems,

2021
02:24:49,652 --> 02:24:54,780
then they'll come into the city manager or
the codes people and say,

2022
02:24:54,780 --> 02:24:59,456
I got a real problem with this. And then
we'll hear from that.

2023
02:24:59,456 --> 02:25:05,565
And, you know, I guess we'll just have to
deal with it like we have with the bulk

2024
02:25:05,565 --> 02:25:11,749
building standards where we've had to go
back to the well a couple of times to try

2025
02:25:11,749 --> 02:25:15,898
to tighten it up. But this is still very
hard, I think.

2026
02:25:15,898 --> 02:25:18,009
And I just don't want us to,

2027
02:25:18,009 --> 02:25:23,062
out of a sense of expediency or let's just
get this done, you know,

2028
02:25:23,062 --> 02:25:24,646
start making changes.

2029
02:25:24,646 --> 02:25:28,568
Because I think you said you had some
other changes,

2030
02:25:28,568 --> 02:25:34,526
some technical changes that needed to be
made. So we got that out to the staff.

2031
02:25:34,526 --> 02:25:37,173
I think they've been answered.

2032
02:25:37,173 --> 02:25:42,998
People were asking questions about the
language for the easements.

2033
02:25:42,998 --> 02:25:50,146
Marshall and Steve have addressed that
time and time again about the easement and

2034
02:25:50,146 --> 02:25:55,705
what— when you can put a fence on an
easement. You can't do it.

2035
02:25:57,901 --> 02:25:59,014
You can't do it.

2036
02:25:59,014 --> 02:25:59,838
Cannot.

2037
02:25:59,838 --> 02:26:04,350
Well, but can you— can't you do one around
an easement?

2038
02:26:04,350 --> 02:26:09,519
I mean, if you've got a sewer easement
through your front yard,

2039
02:26:09,519 --> 02:26:15,591
you don't have to bisect your yard and
leave a channel there for the sewer

2040
02:26:15,591 --> 02:26:18,134
easement to go through, do you?

2041
02:26:18,134 --> 02:26:24,455
The section I read was on walls. Yeah,
that was on walls.

2042
02:26:24,455 --> 02:26:26,110
Oh, he said it was on easements.

2043
02:26:26,110 --> 02:26:30,507
No, walls. Retaining— that's right. That's
on retaining walls. I got it. I'm sorry.

2044
02:26:30,507 --> 02:26:33,314
I got you. He asked me about retaining
walls earlier.

2045
02:26:34,158 --> 02:26:34,479
Okay.

2046
02:26:34,479 --> 02:26:38,533
And you might not want to put a retaining
wall close to a sewer easement,

2047
02:26:38,533 --> 02:26:39,922
even if you're not on it.

2048
02:26:39,922 --> 02:26:41,319
Yeah, no, no, I can see that.

2049
02:26:41,319 --> 02:26:43,487
I'm sorry, I had you confused.

2050
02:26:43,712 --> 02:26:45,590
I didn't explain— I didn't make that
clear.

2051
02:26:45,719 --> 02:26:48,835
I was talking about retaining walls.

2052
02:26:48,835 --> 02:26:54,116
Now, somebody in all of the emails we've
got, or maybe about—

2053
02:26:54,116 --> 02:26:58,790
I'm concerned about the height of the
retaining walls.

2054
02:26:58,790 --> 02:27:05,109
We've been through this with the Planning
Commission time and time again,

2055
02:27:05,109 --> 02:27:12,035
from everything from the mess on Brentview
where they built it up, you know, we—

2056
02:27:12,035 --> 02:27:18,354
and then the 15-foot retaining wall on
Stonewall Jackson Court, you know,

2057
02:27:18,354 --> 02:27:20,518
and that's just too much.

2058
02:27:20,518 --> 02:27:21,378
Yeah.

2059
02:27:21,378 --> 02:27:24,185
In my opinion, and that's why we've got
that.

2060
02:27:24,512 --> 02:27:27,095
You know, I'm not concerned about
retaining walls.

2061
02:27:27,095 --> 02:27:29,935
I was referring about— I was concerned
about easements.

2062
02:27:29,935 --> 02:27:31,846
You can put a fence over an easement.

2063
02:27:31,846 --> 02:27:35,462
Oh yeah, an underground or an above-ground
easement. Sure. Yeah. Okay.

2064
02:27:36,538 --> 02:27:37,726
All right, we want to make sure about
that.

2065
02:27:37,790 --> 02:27:39,222
Sorry about that. Yeah. Okay.

2066
02:27:39,222 --> 02:27:42,727
But okay, so that's what you were
referring to was the retaining walls,

2067
02:27:42,727 --> 02:27:46,429
and you don't have any other things that
need— that you want to change? No.

2068
02:27:46,429 --> 02:27:49,319
So, Mayor, the alternative to— so Mr.

2069
02:27:49,319 --> 02:27:54,161
Evans has proposed an amendment which has
been seconded by Mr.

2070
02:27:54,161 --> 02:27:58,301
DeMarco, and it has all these things we've
worked on.

2071
02:27:58,301 --> 02:28:02,128
If it's the will of the board not to do
all that,

2072
02:28:02,128 --> 02:28:05,720
but to still cover front yards in A, B,
and C,

2073
02:28:05,720 --> 02:28:12,047
then what you could do is amend this and
just include items 1, 2, and possibly 3,

2074
02:28:12,047 --> 02:28:15,405
regular Yeah. Or even take out the
opacity.

2075
02:28:15,405 --> 02:28:18,920
But that's the alternative play, if you
will.

2076
02:28:18,920 --> 02:28:23,294
The amendment might pass and then it might
get approved.

2077
02:28:23,294 --> 02:28:26,418
I'm not suggesting one way or the other.

2078
02:28:26,418 --> 02:28:32,588
But there's an easy way to still do what
you're talking about, get this passed,

2079
02:28:32,588 --> 02:28:38,680
because there's a lot of good stuff in
here and everybody apparently wants The

2080
02:28:38,680 --> 02:28:42,351
restrictions on A, B, and C in the front
yards,

2081
02:28:42,351 --> 02:28:48,443
and you can get that done tonight even if
you can't reach an agreement on rear

2082
02:28:48,443 --> 02:28:52,817
privacy fences. You can still get this
other stuff done.

2083
02:28:52,817 --> 02:28:55,863
You said we didn't hire a professional.

2084
02:28:55,863 --> 02:29:01,096
However, we started with Forest Hills, and
what Winston did was he,

2085
02:29:01,096 --> 02:29:07,266
in his document that he drafted, he had
footnotes. Is this from Goodlettsville?

2086
02:29:07,266 --> 02:29:10,312
This is— what cities did you draw from?

2087
02:29:10,312 --> 02:29:16,248
I can tell you how I did it because I've
got some history with Forest Hills.

2088
02:29:16,248 --> 02:29:21,481
When I was on the Planning Commission at
Forest Hills, we hired Mr.

2089
02:29:21,481 --> 02:29:27,026
Greg Gamble, I believe it was, and we
redid the zoning in Forest Hills.

2090
02:29:27,026 --> 02:29:32,493
And as I recall, he also got into the
fencing. That's my recollection.

2091
02:29:32,493 --> 02:29:38,819
And so when we came to grips with the fact
we needed to have a fencing ordinance,

2092
02:29:38,819 --> 02:29:41,631
I sat down with Mr. Collie and said,

2093
02:29:41,631 --> 02:29:46,005
let's see if we can't mirror what Forest
Hills has done.

2094
02:29:46,005 --> 02:29:49,207
Because, you know, at that point in time,

2095
02:29:49,207 --> 02:29:52,566
that ordinance is still in effect and
it's—

2096
02:29:52,566 --> 02:29:58,267
they've had no problems with it and it's
gone on for 10 or 15 years. Yes.

2097
02:29:58,267 --> 02:30:02,797
I think, and that's just my recollection,
it's about 2011.

2098
02:30:02,797 --> 02:30:07,171
I may be wrong about that, but it's what I
think it was.

2099
02:30:07,171 --> 02:30:10,373
At any rate, they've done fine with that,

2100
02:30:10,373 --> 02:30:14,044
so I simply took that and used that as a
model.

2101
02:30:14,044 --> 02:30:19,277
And then everybody started raising
questions, so I started looking.

2102
02:30:19,277 --> 02:30:20,917
I saw one in Florida.

2103
02:30:20,965 --> 02:30:22,155
I saw one in Texas.

2104
02:30:22,155 --> 02:30:23,280
I saw one in Texas.

2105
02:30:23,612 --> 02:30:25,537
I looked at one and I've looked at—

2106
02:30:27,397 --> 02:30:31,102
I know I looked at Lookout Mountain. I saw
Signal Mountain. I know I've—

2107
02:30:31,280 --> 02:30:33,491
obviously I've looked at Forest Hills and
Belle Meade.

2108
02:30:34,118 --> 02:30:40,471
I've looked at the city of Gallatin. None
of those were HOAs that you looked at?

2109
02:30:40,471 --> 02:30:43,330
No, none of these were HOAs. No, no.

2110
02:30:43,330 --> 02:30:47,857
And so what I did was pick what, in
whatever my judgment,

2111
02:30:47,857 --> 02:30:54,131
I thought would be palatable to everybody
and in the best interest of the city.

2112
02:30:54,131 --> 02:30:57,740
And then we went to work on it.

2113
02:30:57,740 --> 02:31:01,135
And went to work on it, and then we
revised it,

2114
02:31:01,135 --> 02:31:07,058
and we talked about it and revised it. And
it's probably the 6th or 7th amendment.

2115
02:31:07,058 --> 02:31:10,020
You probably can't even recognize it now.

2116
02:31:10,020 --> 02:31:11,483
Yeah.

2117
02:31:11,483 --> 02:31:15,392
Because everybody quite rightly raised a
lot of questions.

2118
02:31:15,392 --> 02:31:20,513
Because that's the same problem you've
got, just like Dale said a while ago.

2119
02:31:20,513 --> 02:31:25,095
Every time you think you've written it,
that it's tight, it's great,

2120
02:31:25,095 --> 02:31:30,015
somebody or some developer comes up with
some angle or twist and oh gosh,

2121
02:31:30,015 --> 02:31:33,384
here it comes again. But what are you
going to do?

2122
02:31:33,384 --> 02:31:38,843
You can't let the good be the enemy of the
perfect. Did I say that the right way?

2123
02:31:38,843 --> 02:31:44,031
Perfect is the enemy of good. Yeah, the
perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the

2124
02:31:44,031 --> 02:31:44,368
perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the
good.

2125
02:31:44,368 --> 02:31:46,457
That's right. I got that wrong.

2126
02:31:46,457 --> 02:31:48,749
So what you got to do— that's why,

2127
02:31:48,749 --> 02:31:52,859
that's why I'm pushing tonight to go ahead
and get it passed,

2128
02:31:52,859 --> 02:31:56,970
particularly with what these poor folks
are being faced with.

2129
02:31:56,970 --> 02:32:00,471
Commissioner Price, do you have any other
comments to add?

2130
02:32:00,471 --> 02:32:00,888
Thank you.

2131
02:32:00,888 --> 02:32:03,329
Commissioner DeMarco?

2132
02:32:03,329 --> 02:32:03,971
No.

2133
02:32:03,971 --> 02:32:09,877
All right, so we've got a motion So
there's a motion and it's seconded, um,

2134
02:32:09,877 --> 02:32:14,760
with these amendments to what was handed
out this evening, um,

2135
02:32:14,760 --> 02:32:17,437
and was on the website apparently.

2136
02:32:17,437 --> 02:32:22,950
Um, and did we decide on number 2, did we
decide that that was 5 or 6?

2137
02:32:22,950 --> 02:32:25,776
6. Decided on 6.

2138
02:32:25,776 --> 02:32:26,835
The amendment is 6.

2139
02:32:26,980 --> 02:32:28,923
Is that correct, Madam Recorder? Yes.

2140
02:32:28,923 --> 02:32:30,047
Okay.

2141
02:32:30,047 --> 02:32:31,219
That's part of the motion.

2142
02:32:31,557 --> 02:32:36,486
All right. All right. Any further
discussion from anybody?

2143
02:32:36,486 --> 02:32:38,695
All right, then let's, uh,

2144
02:32:38,695 --> 02:32:42,774
let's go ahead and have a vote on first
reading.

2145
02:32:42,774 --> 02:32:48,043
Uh, all in favor of the motion to amend,
first of all, um, uh,

2146
02:32:48,043 --> 02:32:49,318
please say aye.

2147
02:32:49,318 --> 02:32:51,054
Aye.

2148
02:32:51,054 --> 02:32:51,783
Aye.

2149
02:32:51,783 --> 02:32:54,846
I'm a nay.

2150
02:32:54,846 --> 02:32:59,732
Nay. 3 to 1. All right, now we're— we have
amended the,

2151
02:32:59,732 --> 02:33:04,795
the ordinance and we are now on the
ordinance as amended.

2152
02:33:04,795 --> 02:33:05,344
Correct.

2153
02:33:05,344 --> 02:33:08,403
Um, and we're ready for a vote.

2154
02:33:08,403 --> 02:33:12,218
Somebody has to move adoption now that
it's been amended.

2155
02:33:12,218 --> 02:33:13,007
Somebody has to what?

2156
02:33:13,007 --> 02:33:15,346
Move adoption of the amended motion.

2157
02:33:15,346 --> 02:33:18,054
Oh, it does? It's not automatically—

2158
02:33:18,054 --> 02:33:19,983
It's been amended. Now you're voting on
the—

2159
02:33:19,983 --> 02:33:21,167
On the— oh yeah, okay.

2160
02:33:21,167 --> 02:33:27,726
I make a motion That we approve on first
reading the proposed

2161
02:33:27,726 --> 02:33:32,350
ordinance with the amendment we've
adopted.

2162
02:33:32,350 --> 02:33:38,264
Did I say that correctly? Yes, sir, you
did. All right.

2163
02:33:38,264 --> 02:33:41,060
Is there a second? Second.

2164
02:33:41,060 --> 02:33:47,332
Second by DeMarco. All right. All in favor
on first reading, please say aye.

2165
02:33:50,332 --> 02:33:50,364
Aye.

2166
02:33:50,364 --> 02:33:51,689
Aye. Aye.

2167
02:33:51,689 --> 02:33:52,755
Nay.

2168
02:33:52,755 --> 02:33:59,954
Okay, it's, it's passed on first reading.
So there you go.

2169
02:33:59,954 --> 02:34:04,670
You've watched the sausage being made.

2170
02:34:04,670 --> 02:34:08,021
Partially, not all the way.

2171
02:34:08,021 --> 02:34:09,972
Watched the last 5%.

2172
02:34:09,972 --> 02:34:13,901
Right. Okay, folks.

2173
02:34:16,901 --> 02:34:20,163
Anybody, uh, permit for building? Thank
you. I don't know. Ask her.

2174
02:34:20,163 --> 02:34:22,012
Okay.

2175
02:34:22,012 --> 02:34:26,336
They couldn't speak English to me. I
wondered.

2176
02:34:26,336 --> 02:34:30,128
All right, we need to move on. Thank you
all very much.

2177
02:34:30,128 --> 02:34:34,086
Just give us 5 minutes to get

2178
02:34:34,086 --> 02:34:38,181
our other people back in here.

2179
02:34:38,181 --> 02:34:38,914
Oh, okay, sure.

2180
02:34:39,510 --> 02:34:41,542
Let's take care of the room.

2181
02:34:41,542 --> 02:34:46,695
Did y'all change it so that the fence
running from the back line of the

2182
02:34:46,695 --> 02:34:49,888
houses to the sidelines is only 4 feet
tall?

2183
02:34:49,888 --> 02:34:52,588
No, from the back corners it's 6.

2184
02:34:52,588 --> 02:34:56,516
Yeah, from the front corners it's 4. Okay,
okay.

2185
02:34:56,516 --> 02:34:58,644
All right, you're welcome.

2186
02:34:58,644 --> 02:35:02,039
Mike, this wasn't enough to be here.

2187
02:35:02,039 --> 02:35:08,170
You didn't— you You didn't get enough at
the Planning Commission.

2188
02:35:08,170 --> 02:35:12,509
He's a glutton for punishment. Say that
again.

2189
02:35:12,509 --> 02:35:18,168
I say you had to go through the Planning
Commission with it.

2190
02:35:18,168 --> 02:35:21,940
Now you're back here watching the— Well,

2191
02:35:21,940 --> 02:35:29,297
I've got to report back and make sure
y'all did what we said. We did it right.

2192
02:35:29,297 --> 02:35:36,276
Well, I would be doing that. That's a good
idea. I would be Thank you, Mr.

2193
02:35:36,276 --> 02:35:41,558
Price. I'm Michael Berry, Lake Montbrello.
Yes, Michael.

2194
02:35:41,558 --> 02:35:44,482
No, one thing I'm surprised at,

2195
02:35:44,482 --> 02:35:51,744
there has not been more discussion about
how the Radnor Lake overload affects

2196
02:35:51,744 --> 02:35:57,309
all the things that we've talked about.
I'm just surprised.

2197
02:35:57,309 --> 02:35:59,412
You're surprised that it does affect?

2198
02:35:59,412 --> 02:36:05,525
I'm surprised there hasn't been more
discussion about smart power.

2199
02:36:05,525 --> 02:36:10,805
How do you mean? Should affect all of this
about fencing,

2200
02:36:10,805 --> 02:36:17,567
because that's a wildlife preserve and
it's our obligation as the city to

2201
02:36:17,567 --> 02:36:19,697
preserve that wildlife.

2202
02:36:21,892 --> 02:36:27,238
Well, I mean, yes, you just reminded me of
a point that somebody did make at a

2203
02:36:27,238 --> 02:36:29,295
previous meeting, and that is,

2204
02:36:29,295 --> 02:36:33,544
I guess it was the people talking about
the front yard fences,

2205
02:36:33,544 --> 02:36:37,999
and they wanted to leave them open so
wildlife could get through.

2206
02:36:37,999 --> 02:36:41,426
But, you know, I don't back directly up to
Radnor,

2207
02:36:41,426 --> 02:36:45,607
but I have one row of lots behind me that
does back up to it.

2208
02:36:45,607 --> 02:36:50,405
And we We get lots of wildlife, but I'd
hate to try to fence them out.

2209
02:36:50,405 --> 02:36:53,147
Good Lord, no telling what would happen.

2210
02:36:53,147 --> 02:36:56,949
What happens, the worst thing is, I think
you've covered it here,

2211
02:36:56,949 --> 02:37:00,868
but when you have the spikes on the top, a
lot of deer get impaled.

2212
02:37:00,868 --> 02:37:02,328
Oh.

2213
02:37:02,328 --> 02:37:07,150
And wildlife had to, of course, they'll
say, come out and kill them.

2214
02:37:07,150 --> 02:37:12,185
Policemen all the time shoot them in the
head, pull them off the fence.

2215
02:37:12,185 --> 02:37:14,951
It's terrible. It's really interesting.

2216
02:37:14,951 --> 02:37:18,568
People think like, I'm going to get a
6-yard fence,

2217
02:37:18,568 --> 02:37:21,050
a 6-foot fence to keep coyotes out.

2218
02:37:21,050 --> 02:37:25,659
Just go to YouTube and look at— yeah, can
a coyote jump a 6-foot?

2219
02:37:25,659 --> 02:37:29,063
And they've got them going up on people's
roofs.

2220
02:37:29,063 --> 02:37:34,594
They can just like get up on the roof. And
a Belgian Malinois can do that too.

2221
02:37:34,594 --> 02:37:40,055
They can climb a fence. Right. 6-foot
fence? Done. They can go right over it.

2222
02:37:40,055 --> 02:37:42,182
They just climb right over it.

2223
02:37:42,182 --> 02:37:47,572
I have, I have on Oak Hill, I was taking
my daughter to, my granddaughter to

2224
02:37:47,572 --> 02:37:48,068
my daughter to, my granddaughter to
school,

2225
02:37:48,068 --> 02:37:53,741
and I looked over, and this is Oak Hill, I
looked up, there's a dog on the roof.

2226
02:37:53,741 --> 02:37:59,202
Yeah, I don't know how the dog got up
there, but he was up there on the roof.

2227
02:37:59,202 --> 02:38:04,095
It wasn't a lab. He said climb ladders.
Find ladders to get up there.

2228
02:38:04,095 --> 02:38:08,208
Good evening, fellas. You did a good job.
Thank you, Mike.

2229
02:38:08,208 --> 02:38:10,804
I think we finally wrapped up the first
step.

2230
02:38:13,750 --> 02:38:15,160
Let's work on the rest of it.

2231
02:38:15,160 --> 02:38:33,234
Oh, yes.

2232
02:38:42,682 --> 02:38:46,377
Well, thank you for putting it to words.

2233
02:38:46,377 --> 02:38:49,332
You did a very good job of that.

2234
02:38:49,332 --> 02:38:50,718
Made it simple.

2235
02:38:50,718 --> 02:38:53,121
I think we're moving on to— Yeah, we would
have—

2236
02:38:53,640 --> 02:38:59,532
that's the kind of thing we would have
debated an hour and a half if he had to

2237
02:38:59,532 --> 02:38:59,835
debated an hour and a half if he had to
just

2238
02:38:59,835 --> 02:39:05,878
sit. Yeah, it works. If anybody had any
public comments, I'm going to screw him.

2239
02:39:05,878 --> 02:39:10,108
She's going to stay and tell you about it.
I understand.

2240
02:39:10,108 --> 02:39:15,925
It's not perfect, but it restricts what
people can do more than what we have.

2241
02:39:15,925 --> 02:39:20,458
Oh God. And we can, you know, I just see
those solid things.

2242
02:39:20,458 --> 02:39:22,951
Everybody's not going to do them.

2243
02:39:22,951 --> 02:39:28,919
Well, they're doing them because they have
small lots, and we're allowing them.

2244
02:39:28,919 --> 02:39:33,527
Lots of that size. In the back, we allow
them for small lots,

2245
02:39:33,527 --> 02:39:39,268
and we're allowing them for— We disagree.
It means we had a good compromise.

2246
02:39:39,268 --> 02:39:44,934
Yeah, you know. Yeah. You got close. I
mean, we had plenty of conversation.

2247
02:39:44,934 --> 02:39:48,787
So that all you see is just— That's all
you can do.

2248
02:39:48,787 --> 02:39:54,377
Yeah, I'm gonna put a 6-foot privacy
fence. Can't get everybody in. That's

2249
02:39:54,377 --> 02:39:54,830
fence. Can't get everybody in. That's
right.

2250
02:39:54,830 --> 02:39:58,456
Although we've done it now to the property
line,

2251
02:39:58,456 --> 02:40:03,215
so that's going to make it next to
impossible. I'm not unhappy.

2252
02:40:03,215 --> 02:40:07,295
Put trees unless you put them in your
neighbor's yard.

2253
02:40:07,295 --> 02:40:13,187
No, no, no, I'm just talking about You
don't see the back, so somebody's back.

2254
02:40:13,187 --> 02:40:18,777
I will sleep tonight. Right in the street.
But you can see the front part.

2255
02:40:18,777 --> 02:40:23,763
That guy covered that one last day. God, I
had a motion yesterday.

2256
02:40:26,730 --> 02:40:28,396
Yeah. And Don Capwell and Albert moving.

2257
02:40:30,668 --> 02:40:37,095
We thought we had a snowball

2258
02:40:37,095 --> 02:40:43,063
chance. It was a motion to

2259
02:40:43,063 --> 02:40:49,949
dismiss, failure to prosecute.

2260
02:40:49,949 --> 02:40:57,294
We filed that. It's been 7 years

2261
02:40:57,294 --> 02:41:03,950
since the events in question,

2262
02:41:03,950 --> 02:41:11,524
6 years, 6 and a half years since

2263
02:41:11,524 --> 02:41:19,328
the case was filed. No activity in

2264
02:41:19,328 --> 02:41:26,214
the case. That was back in the

2265
02:41:26,214 --> 02:41:31,264
'90s. Who's the judge?

2266
02:41:31,264 --> 02:41:33,749
Louis Oliver, of the Oliver family.

2267
02:41:33,749 --> 02:41:37,867
But, um, Chancellor, there was the time
though that our 2,

2268
02:41:37,867 --> 02:41:43,688
maybe 3-year-old daughter went out through
the honeysuckle bushes and followed the

2269
02:41:43,688 --> 02:41:47,096
dog on the other side of the honeysuckle
bushes.

2270
02:41:47,096 --> 02:41:51,782
And my wife called my office and my
secretary came into my office.

2271
02:41:51,782 --> 02:41:55,500
I'm coming over to your house. I'm pretty
sure it's your wife.

2272
02:41:55,530 --> 02:42:01,150
I can't understand a thing she's saying.
And my wife was starting in September.

2273
02:42:01,730 --> 02:42:06,101
Why are you going to come to his house? I
won't be here. I won't be here.

2274
02:42:06,101 --> 02:42:10,533
He's going to come make me sit back there
with Tommy. Well, you know what?

2275
02:42:10,533 --> 02:42:13,706
He's going to come make me sit back there
with Tommy.

2276
02:42:13,706 --> 02:42:18,258
I'm going to make him come to every
meeting. Make him come back? Yeah, yeah.

2277
02:42:18,258 --> 02:42:21,072
Wait, wait, what kind of a Public servant
work.

2278
02:42:21,137 --> 02:42:25,196
You're supposed to be a participating
citizen.

2279
02:42:25,196 --> 02:42:30,666
You've obviously seen the movie The Man
Who Knew Too Much with

2280
02:42:30,666 --> 02:42:31,901
Jimmy Stewart.

2281
02:42:32,385 --> 02:42:37,244
Yeah, you know, they're in Morocco and
who's their son?

2282
02:42:38,182 --> 02:42:40,317
Oh yeah.

2283
02:42:40,608 --> 02:42:43,188
Okay, I move we adjourn.

2284
02:42:43,188 --> 02:42:47,810
No, no, no, it just— well, the fact
though,

2285
02:42:47,810 --> 02:42:52,754
we reached that seriously. Thank you. You
too.

2286
02:42:53,172 --> 02:42:55,263
Let's do it.

2287
02:42:56,228 --> 02:43:01,709
Let's move on.

2288
02:43:01,709 --> 02:43:07,973
Ezra, you ready?

2289
02:43:07,973 --> 02:43:09,930
Okay.

2290
02:43:11,040 --> 02:43:14,845
Okay, we are now back on the record.

2291
02:43:15,185 --> 02:43:18,975
Back on the record. Julie, Mike, can
y'all—

2292
02:43:19,698 --> 02:43:22,889
number 5, number 5 on the agenda,

2293
02:43:22,889 --> 02:43:26,756
and that is the approval of the minutes.

2294
02:43:26,756 --> 02:43:29,753
Move approval. I move approval.

2295
02:43:29,753 --> 02:43:30,946
Second.

2296
02:43:30,946 --> 02:43:36,254
Okay, anybody have any corrections? Oh,
have these been changed? Yeah.

2297
02:43:36,820 --> 02:43:39,690
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear.

2298
02:43:39,690 --> 02:43:41,220
We got— we got— we're on the minutes.

2299
02:43:41,220 --> 02:43:46,550
Yes, I couldn't hear the first and second.
I moved approval. Oh, I'm sorry.

2300
02:43:46,550 --> 02:43:48,010
And Winston Evans seconded.

2301
02:43:48,010 --> 02:43:55,171
Thank you. But now my question— She has—
she's made— you've made corrections,

2302
02:43:55,171 --> 02:43:57,124
haven't you, Desiree?

2303
02:43:57,124 --> 02:44:04,192
There were minor corrections that are in
front of you since it was sent out.

2304
02:44:04,192 --> 02:44:07,075
I have a couple of Picky typos.

2305
02:44:07,075 --> 02:44:14,422
Under approval of the minutes, the first
sentence, it says minutes of May 26th,

2306
02:44:14,422 --> 02:44:19,816
2026. There should be a space after the
comma in the date.

2307
02:44:19,816 --> 02:44:25,954
Yeah, there's a space missing there. May
20th, the date, May 26th.

2308
02:44:25,954 --> 02:44:30,697
And then We need 2 periods, one after new
business.

2309
02:44:30,697 --> 02:44:38,230
Uh, the very last part of that where it
says the motion carried 4-0 should have a

2310
02:44:38,230 --> 02:44:39,811
period behind it.

2311
02:44:39,811 --> 02:44:42,372
Yeah.

2312
02:44:42,372 --> 02:44:46,862
And then also approved this day, the very
last thing approved blank,

2313
02:44:46,862 --> 02:44:51,418
approved this blank day of blank 2026
should have a period behind it,

2314
02:44:51,418 --> 02:44:51,946
I think.

2315
02:44:51,946 --> 02:44:52,666
All right.

2316
02:44:53,280 --> 02:44:58,754
Those are such typographical things, I
don't think you need to approve that.

2317
02:44:58,754 --> 02:45:00,410
Yeah, the first period.

2318
02:45:00,410 --> 02:45:02,480
Yeah, where was that first period?

2319
02:45:02,480 --> 02:45:04,597
It's, uh, new business,

2320
02:45:04,597 --> 02:45:08,648
the last sentence in number 9, new
business.

2321
02:45:08,648 --> 02:45:11,410
Motion carried 4-0. Thank you.

2322
02:45:11,410 --> 02:45:15,115
Oh, okay. And then the second period you
were talking about was at the very end?

2323
02:45:15,115 --> 02:45:15,300
Yes.

2324
02:45:15,300 --> 02:45:15,740
Yeah. Okay.

2325
02:45:15,740 --> 02:45:17,697
Yes, it is. Okay. All right.

2326
02:45:17,697 --> 02:45:21,261
And When you say minor changes, I mean,
were there,

2327
02:45:21,261 --> 02:45:26,712
were there wording changes that were made
between the first and second version

2328
02:45:26,712 --> 02:45:27,061
here?

2329
02:45:27,061 --> 02:45:30,751
Um, I forgot to add a vote.

2330
02:45:30,751 --> 02:45:34,032
Oh, a vote on the agenda

2331
02:45:34,032 --> 02:45:35,125
portion.

2332
02:45:35,125 --> 02:45:39,906
Oh wait, there's a major Problem here.

2333
02:45:39,906 --> 02:45:45,316
D under 12, unless Ann changed
professions,

2334
02:45:45,316 --> 02:45:51,481
I don't think she was recognized by the
Municipal

2335
02:45:51,481 --> 02:45:54,249
Attorneys Association.

2336
02:45:54,249 --> 02:45:58,527
So we need to make a change there.

2337
02:45:58,527 --> 02:46:02,301
Tennessee Medical Association.

2338
02:46:02,301 --> 02:46:04,353
Tennessee Medical Association.

2339
02:46:04,950 --> 02:46:06,356
Okay, thank you.

2340
02:46:06,356 --> 02:46:09,258
Close enough. That's close enough.

2341
02:46:09,258 --> 02:46:12,245
She's deserving of other accolades.

2342
02:46:12,245 --> 02:46:15,403
Yeah, we could give her that one too.

2343
02:46:15,403 --> 02:46:20,651
Yeah, right. Probably more deserving than
most attorneys.

2344
02:46:20,651 --> 02:46:24,426
All right. Uh, okay, I'm glad I saw that.

2345
02:46:24,426 --> 02:46:29,950
Okay, any— anybody else want to just spot
scan it and see if

2346
02:46:29,950 --> 02:46:35,049
you find something?

2347
02:46:38,049 --> 02:46:42,868
The other change was on the very first
paragraph. It said—

2348
02:46:42,917 --> 02:46:50,586
I believe it said originally May. The very
first paragraph of the preamble?

2349
02:46:50,586 --> 02:46:55,393
Yes. And the original minutes that were
sent out,

2350
02:46:55,393 --> 02:46:59,612
they were changed to met on the date
above.

2351
02:46:59,612 --> 02:47:00,495
Oh, okay.

2352
02:47:01,786 --> 02:47:05,278
All right, all right, that's good.

2353
02:47:05,278 --> 02:47:10,720
So we've got a motion by Price and a
second by Evans.

2354
02:47:10,720 --> 02:47:15,547
And all in favor, all in favor, please say
aye.

2355
02:47:15,547 --> 02:47:16,859
Aye.

2356
02:47:16,859 --> 02:47:22,755
Any opposed? Okay, 4-0. All right. What's
that?

2357
02:47:22,755 --> 02:47:25,389
What's that? Ah, yes.

2358
02:47:25,389 --> 02:47:30,533
We're now ready for the financial report.

2359
02:47:30,533 --> 02:47:37,307
And if I could just ask you in advance, at
some point,

2360
02:47:37,307 --> 02:47:44,332
will you please explain what's on the
yellow sheets that

2361
02:47:44,332 --> 02:47:47,970
are not on the various lines?

2362
02:47:47,970 --> 02:47:54,368
The pages after the yellow sheets where
you've got—

2363
02:47:54,368 --> 02:47:59,135
what do you call this— below the line?

2364
02:47:59,135 --> 02:48:01,973
Yep. Okay. A little hard to read.

2365
02:48:01,973 --> 02:48:04,380
Yes, I actually, for myself,

2366
02:48:04,380 --> 02:48:09,883
put them on a separate page because I was
looking at them today.

2367
02:48:09,883 --> 02:48:16,160
I went, I'm getting older, can't read
those numbers. But yes, definitely.

2368
02:48:16,160 --> 02:48:19,513
Okay, Deborah Dutcher, city accountant.

2369
02:48:19,513 --> 02:48:25,274
And we have finished FY26 financials
pending the auditors and their

2370
02:48:25,274 --> 02:48:26,306
pending the auditors and their
adjustments.

2371
02:48:26,306 --> 02:48:33,529
So I was told that normally the board puts
any money they transfer from savings into

2372
02:48:33,529 --> 02:48:38,086
a revenue line item as a transfer from
other sources.

2373
02:48:38,086 --> 02:48:42,386
But technically— and that would be the $4
million—

2374
02:48:42,386 --> 02:48:48,576
but technically that's not revenue. So it
doesn't count towards revenue.

2375
02:48:48,576 --> 02:48:55,541
If it did, then our actuals, the revenue
would be $4,839,923 plus the $4 million,

2376
02:48:55,541 --> 02:48:59,239
and that would be $8,839,923. I can't
hear.

2377
02:48:59,239 --> 02:49:04,742
I'm just going to stand here where you're
going. Oh, okay, sure.

2378
02:49:04,742 --> 02:49:07,665
And the total expenditures are $7.

2379
02:49:07,665 --> 02:49:12,566
$1.4 million, and that if you did it with
the $4 million,

2380
02:49:12,566 --> 02:49:15,662
it would be a positive $1.4 million.

2381
02:49:15,662 --> 02:49:19,875
But since that's not GAAP, we're
discarding that.

2382
02:49:19,875 --> 02:49:20,809
Okay.

2383
02:49:20,809 --> 02:49:26,016
So our revenues were $4,839,923.

2384
02:49:26,016 --> 02:49:30,736
Our expenses were $7,392,423,

2385
02:49:30,736 --> 02:49:36,757
which leads us with a net income of a

2386
02:49:36,757 --> 02:49:40,174
loss of $2.5 million.

2387
02:49:40,174 --> 02:49:44,469
Okay, you're— that's on the next page.
Sorry.

2388
02:49:44,469 --> 02:49:48,169
What page are you on? The yellow sheets?

2389
02:49:48,169 --> 02:49:50,491
I think so, yeah.

2390
02:49:50,813 --> 02:49:57,822
I'm trying to find out. You've got a cheat
sheet here. Yes, I have.

2391
02:49:57,822 --> 02:50:02,843
So I'm trying to find it on this page. Oh,
okay.

2392
02:50:02,843 --> 02:50:09,120
So the $1.4 million is on the first Or on
the yellow sheets.

2393
02:50:09,120 --> 02:50:15,605
On the yellow sheets. And yeah,
$1.44749951 net income. Right.

2394
02:50:15,605 --> 02:50:21,045
But if you look on the yellow sheets in
the actuals,

2395
02:50:21,045 --> 02:50:24,497
our actual revenue was $4.839922.

2396
02:50:24,497 --> 02:50:28,681
If you go over to the expenditures page,

2397
02:50:28,681 --> 02:50:32,238
our total expenses were $7,394.23.

2398
02:50:32,238 --> 02:50:36,946
And that leaves us with a loss of
$2,552,500.

2399
02:50:36,946 --> 02:50:44,164
Steve, the check that I just signed this
afternoon, that was for the,

2400
02:50:44,164 --> 02:50:50,859
for, you know, the cleanup. Is that
Included in that $7,390,000?

2401
02:50:50,859 --> 02:50:55,984
It absolutely is. That was our— that was
the, uh,

2402
02:50:55,984 --> 02:50:59,541
the TDEC ARPA account for the, uh,

2403
02:50:59,541 --> 02:51:05,190
the last payout for the Granny White and
Tyne project.

2404
02:51:05,190 --> 02:51:05,870
Okay.

2405
02:51:05,870 --> 02:51:12,307
So yeah, that, that's, that's, that's, uh,
in the, in the TDEC account. Okay.

2406
02:51:12,307 --> 02:51:18,577
And all that wasn't— that wasn't the
clean— the, the ice storm. Okay, thank

2407
02:51:18,577 --> 02:51:18,912
clean— the, the ice storm. Okay, thank
you.

2408
02:51:18,912 --> 02:51:23,259
But all the expenses for the storm have
been posted.

2409
02:51:23,259 --> 02:51:28,108
So we actually ended up spending
$3,512,777 for the storm,

2410
02:51:28,108 --> 02:51:34,294
and our budget was $4,039,000. So we came
in under our budget by $587,000.

2411
02:51:34,294 --> 02:51:38,047
Wait, I'm sorry, I thought—

2412
02:51:38,047 --> 02:51:40,966
I have $3.45 million.

2413
02:51:40,966 --> 02:51:46,665
For the expenditure of the storm cleanup?

2414
02:51:46,665 --> 02:51:51,140
Oh yes, yes, the budget was $4,039,000.

2415
02:51:51,140 --> 02:51:55,155
Yes, the final cost was $3,451,277.

2416
02:51:55,155 --> 02:52:02,957
Yeah, so we came in at $587,723 under what
we budgeted for the storm

2417
02:52:02,957 --> 02:52:10,300
because at one point we were thinking
we're going to be spending

2418
02:52:10,300 --> 02:52:14,889
about $4 million. Right. Okay. So, okay.

2419
02:52:14,889 --> 02:52:18,331
So in that negative 2.552,500,

2420
02:52:18,331 --> 02:52:24,756
we are going to be getting some
reimbursement from FEMA.

2421
02:52:24,756 --> 02:52:29,116
So if you looked at on my cheat sheet,

2422
02:52:29,116 --> 02:52:33,820
so if you take our net loss of 2.552,500.

2423
02:52:33,820 --> 02:52:40,475
$1,500,000, and we're estimating to get
$3,019,867 in FEMA

2424
02:52:40,475 --> 02:52:47,015
reimbursements. Now, that's calculated by
our total cost.

2425
02:52:47,015 --> 02:52:53,784
We're expected to receive 75%. That's what
our estimate is.

2426
02:52:53,784 --> 02:53:01,242
And we're also getting another 12.5% for
administrative fees from

2427
02:53:01,242 --> 02:53:06,749
TEMA. So our total recovery would be
$3,019,867.

2428
02:53:06,749 --> 02:53:11,453
That's FEMA and FEMA. FEMA and FEMA. Yep.

2429
02:53:11,453 --> 02:53:14,957
Okay, I knew this was going to be
difficult.

2430
02:53:14,957 --> 02:53:16,710
Um, can we— all right,

2431
02:53:16,710 --> 02:53:22,763
I assume this is the way that when we wind
up having a $1.5 million deficit,

2432
02:53:22,763 --> 02:53:26,506
that's the way it's going to be on the
audited.

2433
02:53:26,506 --> 02:53:30,250
It's not the way it's going to be on the
audit.

2434
02:53:30,250 --> 02:53:33,515
We'll be required to record a receivable.

2435
02:53:33,515 --> 02:53:39,350
Okay, this receivable will be on the
government-wide section.

2436
02:53:39,350 --> 02:53:44,611
So there's 2, 2 account financial reports
on the audit.

2437
02:53:44,611 --> 02:53:47,481
One is based on GAAP with its—

2438
02:53:47,481 --> 02:53:52,742
just we do modified accrual accounting So
on that side,

2439
02:53:52,742 --> 02:53:57,429
it will say that we have a negative $2.5
million,

2440
02:53:57,429 --> 02:54:01,830
but we budgeted to have a negative $4
million.

2441
02:54:01,830 --> 02:54:08,047
So, but with the— in government-wide,
we're going to accrue that,

2442
02:54:08,047 --> 02:54:15,700
that recovery we're expecting from FEMA.
Why wouldn't it be on the general fund?

2443
02:54:15,700 --> 02:54:19,239
Because that's where the expense was.

2444
02:54:19,239 --> 02:54:23,831
It will be in the government-wide general
funds,

2445
02:54:23,831 --> 02:54:28,327
but because it's not receivable within 60
days,

2446
02:54:28,327 --> 02:54:33,206
so we're not going to get it by August
30th, so we—

2447
02:54:33,206 --> 02:54:39,997
it's going to be a government-wide
receivable. So, oh yeah, $3 million.

2448
02:54:39,997 --> 02:54:45,545
And so if you look at it, our total costs
were $3,451,277.

2449
02:54:45,545 --> 02:54:52,911
Recovery, we're expecting $3,019,867. So
75%, right? 75% plus the 12.5%, yes.

2450
02:54:52,911 --> 02:55:00,468
So we would only have spent from our money
after FEMA's reimbursement $431,410.

2451
02:55:00,468 --> 02:55:04,947
All right, wait, wait, wait, tell me that
part again.

2452
02:55:04,947 --> 02:55:12,398
So our total costs were $3. $1.4 million.
We're expecting $3 million from FEMA.

2453
02:55:12,398 --> 02:55:18,906
So what we're out of pocket for the entire
storm cleanup is $431,410.

2454
02:55:18,906 --> 02:55:25,131
Is that just FEMA, or is that FEMA plus
FEMA on the reimbursement?

2455
02:55:25,131 --> 02:55:32,864
Um, that's FEMA plus FEMA. So we've got
$258,458 for FEMA recovery, so that's 75%.

2456
02:55:32,864 --> 02:55:36,920
Okay, I see you've got— that includes
TEMA.

2457
02:55:36,920 --> 02:55:44,371
Right, and we're getting $431— So that's
FEMA and TEMA reimbursement? Yes, yes.

2458
02:55:44,371 --> 02:55:48,396
All right, this is my ultimate question.

2459
02:55:48,396 --> 02:55:54,635
And this to me is where numbers start
getting really slippery.

2460
02:55:54,635 --> 02:55:59,565
And I'm just trying— and I can't keep hold
of it.

2461
02:55:59,565 --> 02:56:06,508
What I'd like to know is we moved $4
million into our general budget,

2462
02:56:06,508 --> 02:56:14,055
moved into the budget, okay? And of that
we spent how much? $3.451 million?

2463
02:56:14,055 --> 02:56:14,729
Correct.

2464
02:56:14,729 --> 02:56:21,614
Okay, so $4 million minus that amount is
what we didn't spend that we put in the

2465
02:56:21,614 --> 02:56:24,195
general fund. Into the budget,

2466
02:56:24,195 --> 02:56:31,338
and somehow or another I'd like to see how
that goes back into the fund out of the—

2467
02:56:31,338 --> 02:56:33,920
out of the— out of our budget,

2468
02:56:33,920 --> 02:56:38,567
not as any kind of an excess revenue
because it's not,

2469
02:56:38,567 --> 02:56:43,988
but that it goes back into our fund
balance that we had before.

2470
02:56:43,988 --> 02:56:46,570
Okay, you see what I'm saying?

2471
02:56:46,570 --> 02:56:52,860
Yep. In the financial statements, it'll be
on the government-wide statement.

2472
02:56:52,860 --> 02:56:59,647
Then next year when we receive the money,
it will come in as a FEMA reimbursement,

2473
02:56:59,647 --> 02:57:03,454
so it will hit our bank accounts at that
time.

2474
02:57:03,454 --> 02:57:09,165
And the general fund will also show up on
the general fund? Yes. Yes.

2475
02:57:09,165 --> 02:57:11,317
Because you can put it as—

2476
02:57:11,317 --> 02:57:16,614
I'm going to probably put it in FEMA
reimbursement as a revenue,

2477
02:57:16,614 --> 02:57:22,407
but you could also put it as a FEMA
reimbursement against the expense.

2478
02:57:22,407 --> 02:57:29,028
But either way, it's going to increase our
revenue by being reimbursed for those

2479
02:57:29,028 --> 02:57:34,077
funds from FEMA. What you're asking is—
let me weigh in here.

2480
02:57:34,077 --> 02:57:38,463
And I don't want to get— provide a
different message.

2481
02:57:38,463 --> 02:57:43,512
But you're looking at the figures the way
I look Probably so.

2482
02:57:43,512 --> 02:57:46,078
Okay, because I'm saying, okay,

2483
02:57:46,078 --> 02:57:52,368
we have so much revenue plus that $4
million we set aside out of the— out of

2484
02:57:52,368 --> 02:57:52,699
million we set aside out of the— out of
the—

2485
02:57:52,699 --> 02:57:54,354
out of our reserves.

2486
02:57:54,354 --> 02:57:56,754
So if you add those together,

2487
02:57:56,754 --> 02:58:02,962
you'll see that number right there on the
revenue page of the yellow sheet.

2488
02:58:02,962 --> 02:58:06,272
Right there on the yellow revenue sheet,

2489
02:58:06,272 --> 02:58:13,225
if you go right down below the line and if
you look real close, it's It says actual.

2490
02:58:13,225 --> 02:58:16,866
So your revenue for the year was
$4,839,000.

2491
02:58:16,866 --> 02:58:20,591
Then we use that appropriation of $4
million,

2492
02:58:20,591 --> 02:58:25,060
that added total funds budgeted to spend
$8.8 million.

2493
02:58:25,060 --> 02:58:28,619
Okay, our total expenditures, $7.3
million,

2494
02:58:28,619 --> 02:58:34,661
which included everything we spent money
on, including the debris pickup,

2495
02:58:34,661 --> 02:58:41,282
the TDEC culverts. The other ARPA money
that we had in the bank or in savings or

2496
02:58:41,282 --> 02:58:41,447
that we had in the bank or in savings or
in

2497
02:58:41,447 --> 02:58:47,406
reserves, what— that's all included in our
expenditures at $7.3 million.

2498
02:58:47,406 --> 02:58:54,110
So the money we did not spend, that $1.447
million, is still in the LGIP account.

2499
02:58:54,110 --> 02:58:59,490
It never came out of it because we didn't
have to to pull it out.

2500
02:58:59,490 --> 02:59:04,870
So there's where you're, you're saying the
money's going back in.

2501
02:59:04,870 --> 02:59:10,415
Well, actually, that $1.447 never came
out. It's still in reserves.

2502
02:59:10,415 --> 02:59:17,769
Okay, okay. But see, I can't reconcile— I
mean, that's helpful,

2503
02:59:17,769 --> 02:59:25,240
but that doesn't help me reconcile $1.447
with $5 $130-something

2504
02:59:25,240 --> 02:59:26,291
thousand.

2505
02:59:26,291 --> 02:59:32,719
What she's saying, she's putting that in a
bucket by

2506
02:59:32,719 --> 02:59:38,653
itself. We put $4 million aside for the
cleanup.

2507
02:59:38,653 --> 02:59:42,239
Our spend was $3.451 million.

2508
02:59:42,239 --> 02:59:47,678
So for that bucket, we had $587,000
surplus.

2509
02:59:48,986 --> 02:59:49,245
Right.

2510
02:59:49,245 --> 02:59:51,492
Okay, and that is included,

2511
02:59:51,492 --> 02:59:57,069
that's included in that $1.4 that's still
in LGIP that's not spent.

2512
02:59:57,069 --> 03:00:03,894
I mean, we— because it was, uh, what they
call funding sources other than revenue,

2513
03:00:03,894 --> 03:00:08,388
it doesn't show up on this shallow sheet
because it's,

2514
03:00:08,388 --> 03:00:14,880
it's in an amendment And it's coming out
of revenues and it's funding sources.

2515
03:00:14,880 --> 03:00:21,372
And if you'll remember on our budget
document, we had all of our expenses, all

2516
03:00:21,372 --> 03:00:21,622
document, we had all of our expenses, all
of,

2517
03:00:21,622 --> 03:00:23,536
all of our expenditure.

2518
03:00:23,536 --> 03:00:29,779
I mean, all of our revenue, all of our,
all of our, um, all of our revenue,

2519
03:00:29,779 --> 03:00:33,441
all of our expenses. Then we had
sanitation.

2520
03:00:33,441 --> 03:00:38,185
And right below that, it said other
sources for transfer.

2521
03:00:38,185 --> 03:00:41,930
It had our transfers, then had other
sources.

2522
03:00:41,930 --> 03:00:48,173
So when that is reconciled by the auditors
and by the comptroller's office,

2523
03:00:48,173 --> 03:00:54,665
they have our budget amendments that we
pull that money out of other financial

2524
03:00:54,665 --> 03:01:00,907
sources that's not revenue. So they will
take into account that $4 million.

2525
03:01:00,907 --> 03:01:03,737
Did I say that correctly, Deborah?

2526
03:01:03,737 --> 03:01:06,856
Yes. Almost.

2527
03:01:06,856 --> 03:01:13,658
The auditor or the comptroller's office
knows that we just took $4 million

2528
03:01:13,658 --> 03:01:18,438
of savings to offset the cost for the
storm cleanup.

2529
03:01:18,438 --> 03:01:24,872
So our budget technically said, okay,
we're going to spend $4 million—

2530
03:01:24,872 --> 03:01:31,215
our budget was we're going to spend $4
million over what we budgeted,

2531
03:01:31,215 --> 03:01:34,064
and we ended up spending Right.

2532
03:01:34,306 --> 03:01:40,336
Right. So here's what— so here's what my
simple mind would like to see is we've

2533
03:01:40,336 --> 03:01:40,642
simple mind would like to see is we've
got—

2534
03:01:40,642 --> 03:01:44,764
we still have $4 million over here and
it's red money.

2535
03:01:44,764 --> 03:01:50,336
And over here we've got green money and
that's what our budget was, okay?

2536
03:01:50,336 --> 03:01:56,748
And so we've spent $3.5 million out of the
red money and that left us with $500,000.

2537
03:01:58,877 --> 03:02:01,721
That's budget versus actual. Okay.

2538
03:02:02,332 --> 03:02:06,606
And then on the other side, on the green
money,

2539
03:02:06,606 --> 03:02:10,153
we still were working with a budget of—

2540
03:02:10,153 --> 03:02:14,790
with budgeted revenue of $4,839,922.
That's actual.

2541
03:02:14,790 --> 03:02:20,065
So we had revenue, actual revenue without
that $4 million,

2542
03:02:20,065 --> 03:02:22,316
of $4,839,922.

2543
03:02:25,316 --> 03:02:29,829
Right, our actual budget for revenue is
$4,084,232.

2544
03:02:29,829 --> 03:02:31,864
But the actual revenue—

2545
03:02:31,864 --> 03:02:35,757
But the actual revenue is $4.8 million.
Yes.

2546
03:02:35,757 --> 03:02:39,961
By a considerable amount. Mm-hmm. Yeah,
that's nice.

2547
03:02:39,961 --> 03:02:44,003
Okay, so that's what this is— this is,
believe me,

2548
03:02:44,003 --> 03:02:47,399
this is helping me to look at it this way.

2549
03:02:47,399 --> 03:02:51,684
And so then of that $4,839,000 Of that we
spent what?

2550
03:02:51,684 --> 03:02:54,173
$7,392,420.

2551
03:02:54,173 --> 03:02:58,625
No, see, I'm— we didn't, we didn't spend
that $3.4 million out of,

2552
03:02:58,625 --> 03:03:03,010
out of what I'm talking about. That's over
here in the red money.

2553
03:03:03,010 --> 03:03:08,070
In the green money, we only received
revenue of $4 million, $4.839 million,

2554
03:03:08,070 --> 03:03:11,713
and we spent of that what? That's what I'm
getting at.

2555
03:03:11,713 --> 03:03:16,907
So forget the expenditures I know this is
probably making your mind go crazy,

2556
03:03:16,907 --> 03:03:19,471
but the other is making mine go crazy.

2557
03:03:19,471 --> 03:03:25,364
So if we took our revenue, we subtracted
our expenditures,

2558
03:03:25,364 --> 03:03:29,326
and we added back in the storm cleanup—

2559
03:03:29,326 --> 03:03:34,507
so we're looking at it as the storm never
happened.

2560
03:03:34,507 --> 03:03:41,009
Yes, if, if that happened, we would have
$898,776 as net income.

2561
03:03:41,009 --> 03:03:44,768
I'm sorry, what? What? Oh, be useful.

2562
03:03:44,768 --> 03:03:52,286
And that money came from the fact that we
assumed there was going to be $1

2563
03:03:52,286 --> 03:03:54,826
million in storm cleanup,

2564
03:03:54,826 --> 03:04:01,023
so we cut back some capital expenditures
to cover that. Okay.

2565
03:04:01,023 --> 03:04:09,151
And then obviously Obviously the storm
kept going up and up as far as the costs.

2566
03:04:09,151 --> 03:04:11,589
Now, a bit of a wrinkle.

2567
03:04:11,589 --> 03:04:18,091
We, we saved $63,000 in the monthly
pickup, 3 months of $21,000.

2568
03:04:18,091 --> 03:04:22,663
Not a big deal, but— But still $60,000.
Yeah.

2569
03:04:22,663 --> 03:04:28,115
Yeah, okay, I see that, but that seems
like a little bit of a Extra wrinkle.

2570
03:04:28,115 --> 03:04:32,419
Um, so I'm just trying to see— yeah, we
did save that money,

2571
03:04:32,419 --> 03:04:35,144
I guess you could look at it that way.

2572
03:04:35,144 --> 03:04:40,596
But then by the same token, we weren't
paying that money to Jonathan either.

2573
03:04:40,596 --> 03:04:46,263
I mean, we weren't— it wasn't like we
saved it because we were doing it through

2574
03:04:46,263 --> 03:04:46,478
saved it because we were doing it through
the

2575
03:04:46,478 --> 03:04:48,128
storm cleanup, I guess.

2576
03:04:48,128 --> 03:04:50,713
Which is what we did. We moved it.

2577
03:04:50,713 --> 03:04:56,092
Yeah. Well, anyway, don't let me get off
subject here.

2578
03:04:56,092 --> 03:05:02,169
So I'm just trying to So we had— so we've
got $898,000 there,

2579
03:05:02,169 --> 03:05:08,843
and then we've got $540,000-something from
the, uh, the $4,039,000.

2580
03:05:08,843 --> 03:05:10,736
$540,000-something.

2581
03:05:10,736 --> 03:05:13,232
So that would probably add up to the
$1,447,500.

2582
03:05:13,232 --> 03:05:16,625
To what?

2583
03:05:16,625 --> 03:05:23,647
The $1,447,500. When you add the $4
million you got from your kitty and you

2584
03:05:23,647 --> 03:05:30,294
subtract your total expenditures, you're
actually ahead $1.447 million.

2585
03:05:30,294 --> 03:05:31,230
All right.

2586
03:05:31,230 --> 03:05:32,918
And then now, is that one— oh,

2587
03:05:32,918 --> 03:05:36,630
and so that's the net income including the
$4 million? Yeah. Okay.

2588
03:05:36,630 --> 03:05:40,907
Yes. So I was going to ask, what do you
report to the comptroller?

2589
03:05:40,907 --> 03:05:45,573
Do you say we made $1.447 million? No. Do
you report the actual numbers?

2590
03:05:45,573 --> 03:05:50,628
We lost, uh, In the government-wide— a
government fund, it will be a 2.5 loss,

2591
03:05:50,628 --> 03:05:55,489
right? But it won't count against you
because you'll see what— Oh, exactly.

2592
03:05:55,489 --> 03:06:00,608
Every— every— we're actually probably
doing pretty well because a lot of cities

2593
03:06:00,608 --> 03:06:05,987
don't have them take that into account. Of
course, when they reconcile that, right?

2594
03:06:05,987 --> 03:06:11,172
Yeah, because if you look at— because
they're particular about what is And that—

2595
03:06:11,172 --> 03:06:16,486
that's right, revenues are not rev— you
know, your, your reserves are not revenue.

2596
03:06:16,486 --> 03:06:21,606
That's right. Even though you pull it in
and put it into revenues to spend as a

2597
03:06:21,606 --> 03:06:26,077
revenue source, it's called other
financial sources. Yeah, that makes

2598
03:06:26,077 --> 03:06:26,985
financial sources. Yeah, that makes
perfect sense.

2599
03:06:26,985 --> 03:06:30,355
I mean, well, you wouldn't tell— that's
what I mean,

2600
03:06:30,355 --> 03:06:35,280
you had $4 million in revenue that you
didn't have. You just had it on hand.

2601
03:06:35,280 --> 03:06:37,483
It was prior revenue. Yeah, right.

2602
03:06:37,483 --> 03:06:40,724
Well, you're basically using Your savings
account.

2603
03:06:40,724 --> 03:06:45,454
So if I make $60,000 a year and I take
$10,000 out of my savings to buy a

2604
03:06:45,454 --> 03:06:46,038
$10,000 out of my savings to buy a
vacation,

2605
03:06:46,038 --> 03:06:50,833
I spent $70,000, but $70,000 is not
revenue. Only the $60,000 I earned was

2606
03:06:50,833 --> 03:06:51,352
revenue. Only the $60,000 I earned was
revenue.

2607
03:06:51,352 --> 03:06:56,277
Right, right. And the FEMA and FEMA
reimbursement is for the benefit of this

2608
03:06:56,277 --> 03:06:56,666
reimbursement is for the benefit of this
board,

2609
03:06:56,666 --> 03:07:01,786
but we wouldn't be showing that to the
auditors at all because it's not in hand

2610
03:07:01,786 --> 03:07:02,045
auditors at all because it's not in hand
yet,

2611
03:07:02,045 --> 03:07:06,711
right? We will be presenting our expected
revenue and That will go into—

2612
03:07:06,711 --> 03:07:12,684
And what is that— where is that number
again? That's that $3,019,000?

2613
03:07:12,684 --> 03:07:18,031
Right. Right. So that will be given to the
auditors so that they can put it on our

2614
03:07:18,031 --> 03:07:22,465
government-wide statement, because in the
government-wide statement,

2615
03:07:22,465 --> 03:07:24,878
it's kind of like a regular business.

2616
03:07:24,878 --> 03:07:29,703
If I send out a bill to you in January,
it's revenue right then and there.

2617
03:07:29,703 --> 03:07:34,594
We recognize it as revenue. So the
government-wide statement will recognize

2618
03:07:34,594 --> 03:07:34,790
government-wide statement will recognize
it.

2619
03:07:34,790 --> 03:07:39,289
Modified accrual accounting says we
recognize everything as expenses,

2620
03:07:39,289 --> 03:07:43,723
and anything that is coming in within 60
days of the year-end close,

2621
03:07:43,723 --> 03:07:46,266
we can put that in this year's revenue.

2622
03:07:46,266 --> 03:07:49,005
It's going to take months for FEMA to get—

2623
03:07:49,005 --> 03:07:53,048
Do you issue an amendment to your budget
when it does come in?

2624
03:07:53,048 --> 03:07:58,330
I don't think that's necessary because
we're not really going to spend that extra

2625
03:07:58,330 --> 03:08:02,699
money. We're going to put it back into
savings or our fund balance.

2626
03:08:02,699 --> 03:08:04,394
We will record that asset.

2627
03:08:04,394 --> 03:08:09,741
Yes, we're required to record that asset
as an estimated amount we're going to get

2628
03:08:09,741 --> 03:08:13,849
in government-wide. And then next year
when the money comes in,

2629
03:08:13,849 --> 03:08:18,218
it's reimbursing FEMA, right? That's what
I was telling you, right?

2630
03:08:18,218 --> 03:08:23,435
I'm gonna send you an email because we
need to make sure we do something on that

2631
03:08:23,435 --> 03:08:25,913
because the auditors If we do nothing,

2632
03:08:25,913 --> 03:08:30,542
the auditors will say you had this asset
you didn't have on your books.

2633
03:08:30,542 --> 03:08:33,868
So yeah, no, they'll get a schedule from
us saying—

2634
03:08:33,868 --> 03:08:39,215
And whether we need to put an allowance on
it for any disallowed expenses would be

2635
03:08:39,215 --> 03:08:44,627
the question. Well, what we're doing is we
expect to get 75% of what we're billing.

2636
03:08:44,627 --> 03:08:48,214
So that's our estimate. It's not 100% of
what we spent.

2637
03:08:48,214 --> 03:08:52,648
So that's where, that's where our
allowance comes in. $87.5 million.

2638
03:08:52,648 --> 03:08:54,719
$87.5 million, yeah.

2639
03:08:54,719 --> 03:08:58,012
Right. So yeah, $3.4 million is what we
spent.

2640
03:08:58,012 --> 03:09:01,949
We're saying, hey, we're gonna probably
get $3 million,

2641
03:09:01,949 --> 03:09:05,814
and that's allowing for the not getting
all the money.

2642
03:09:05,814 --> 03:09:12,530
So, so actually then, I know I'm way out
here from normal accounting rules,

2643
03:09:12,530 --> 03:09:18,977
but But if we were saying how much we have
saved in our original budget,

2644
03:09:18,977 --> 03:09:21,216
it would be $898 million.

2645
03:09:21,216 --> 03:09:23,126
Right. If the storm never happened,

2646
03:09:23,126 --> 03:09:25,801
that's what we would have ended up the
year with.

2647
03:09:25,801 --> 03:09:30,396
And, and, but the storm did happen and we
still wound up

2648
03:09:30,396 --> 03:09:32,119
with that because we,

2649
03:09:32,119 --> 03:09:35,483
we didn't have another pot of $4 million.

2650
03:09:35,483 --> 03:09:37,159
We over— we, you know,

2651
03:09:37,159 --> 03:09:42,416
when I came When we came back with the
request for the extra million,

2652
03:09:42,416 --> 03:09:46,912
I was being told we were looking at $3.8
million or higher,

2653
03:09:46,912 --> 03:09:53,083
and I thought we'd get another MOU or bill
back from the MOU. That didn't happen.

2654
03:09:53,083 --> 03:09:56,512
It came out to that— MOU was at $2.3
million,

2655
03:09:56,512 --> 03:10:01,007
so we added that to the $1.1 million that
we already spent.

2656
03:10:01,007 --> 03:10:03,750
That came up to, what, $3.4 million?

2657
03:10:03,750 --> 03:10:03,995
Yeah.

2658
03:10:04,172 --> 03:10:08,170
Everything all included. Yeah. So we had
asked for more.

2659
03:10:08,170 --> 03:10:10,668
That's why that was— yeah, showing,

2660
03:10:10,668 --> 03:10:14,095
because we'd already amended that at $4
million.

2661
03:10:14,095 --> 03:10:14,994
Right.

2662
03:10:14,994 --> 03:10:18,577
We had, we had 2 or 3 amendments that I
think we did.

2663
03:10:18,577 --> 03:10:22,092
One amendment for a million, then another
amendment,

2664
03:10:22,092 --> 03:10:23,038
then we did 2.

2665
03:10:23,038 --> 03:10:23,327
2.

2666
03:10:23,327 --> 03:10:24,178
Yeah.

2667
03:10:24,178 --> 03:10:25,013
And then another one.

2668
03:10:25,013 --> 03:10:28,681
Another one. So we had 3 amendments that
totaled $4 million. Yeah.

2669
03:10:28,681 --> 03:10:32,960
So, yeah, so, but we didn't, you know, we
really— I mean, we didn't spend it.

2670
03:10:32,960 --> 03:10:35,350
We didn't even have to pull it out of
LGIP.

2671
03:10:35,350 --> 03:10:38,676
Yeah, well, and that's, and that's, and
that's great.

2672
03:10:38,676 --> 03:10:43,444
And so, so then that's, I guess, when my
final question then is going to be,

2673
03:10:43,444 --> 03:10:45,515
so of the $4 million we took out,

2674
03:10:45,515 --> 03:10:49,970
we would put back $540,000 even though
it's already not been taken out,

2675
03:10:49,970 --> 03:10:54,739
but we would be putting back $540,000
right now. We could do that right now.

2676
03:10:54,739 --> 03:10:56,370
But it's already in there.

2677
03:10:56,370 --> 03:10:57,043
Yeah.

2678
03:10:57,043 --> 03:11:02,509
So we don't have to do that, but that's
how much it would be.

2679
03:11:02,509 --> 03:11:07,348
And from the, the rest of the budget,
we've got, well,

2680
03:11:07,348 --> 03:11:12,904
basically $900,000, and that $900,000 then
also goes back into

2681
03:11:12,904 --> 03:11:14,517
the, um, reserves.

2682
03:11:14,517 --> 03:11:15,607
That's right.

2683
03:11:15,607 --> 03:11:17,509
Right. Okay. And then,

2684
03:11:17,509 --> 03:11:23,130
and then we'll get our reimbursement And
then the only last thing

2685
03:11:23,130 --> 03:11:28,578
that's unsolved is, so then where do we
make up the $340,000 or

2686
03:11:28,578 --> 03:11:33,075
$350,000 that we possibly are going to be
left with?

2687
03:11:33,075 --> 03:11:38,901
Well, that will come— that's already in
this year's expenses already.

2688
03:11:38,901 --> 03:11:45,148
So because we're saying we've spent all
the money, so everything we spent,

2689
03:11:45,148 --> 03:11:52,156
the storm paid for. And then when we get
the recovery back, we won't get all of it.

2690
03:11:52,156 --> 03:11:57,728
We'll be $431,000 short, but that's
already paid for in this year,

2691
03:11:57,728 --> 03:12:00,683
so it won't really have any impact.

2692
03:12:00,683 --> 03:12:05,487
Right, but it was paid for with reserve
money.

2693
03:12:05,487 --> 03:12:09,184
So that would technically be our portion
of reserve we, we pulled out.

2694
03:12:09,184 --> 03:12:15,874
And that's what I'm just wondering, is it
Would it be the idea that to pay for that—

2695
03:12:15,874 --> 03:12:21,688
I don't know if I'm even saying that
right— to pay for that $400,000— no,

2696
03:12:21,688 --> 03:12:26,148
pay for that $350,000, the 10 to 12%
that's going to be—

2697
03:12:26,148 --> 03:12:29,572
that we're not going to get reimbursed
for.

2698
03:12:29,572 --> 03:12:35,068
To pay for that, we either just say it's
just a wash or— and we just—

2699
03:12:35,068 --> 03:12:40,165
that's just what we had to spend out of
the reserves ultimately.

2700
03:12:40,165 --> 03:12:42,793
Or is that the way to look at it?

2701
03:12:42,793 --> 03:12:47,844
You can also look at it that we— And I'll
just wait till my—

2702
03:12:47,844 --> 03:12:50,286
till I get through my report,

2703
03:12:50,286 --> 03:12:56,599
but I'll tell you that we've already
recouped $590,000 from the TDEC grant.

2704
03:12:56,599 --> 03:13:02,745
It's already in the bank that has come in
from our, from our T-DEF grant.

2705
03:13:02,745 --> 03:13:07,291
So, you know, so we, we spent that. We got
that grant.

2706
03:13:07,291 --> 03:13:12,174
That was what I— well, I don't want to
call it free money,

2707
03:13:12,174 --> 03:13:17,983
but it was money that we didn't, we didn't
have a revenue source for.

2708
03:13:17,983 --> 03:13:21,350
But we spent it on our culvert projects.

2709
03:13:21,350 --> 03:13:25,644
Now we've turned that in, we've submitted
all that,

2710
03:13:25,644 --> 03:13:29,516
and we've received about $85,000. 65% of
that.

2711
03:13:29,516 --> 03:13:31,789
So we still have about, uh,

2712
03:13:31,789 --> 03:13:37,177
we have about $36,000 left that we're
going to recoup from TDEC.

2713
03:13:37,177 --> 03:13:41,386
The other, the other 65 is in the works
right now.

2714
03:13:41,386 --> 03:13:45,343
So when they told— they told me— what is
today?

2715
03:13:45,343 --> 03:13:45,650
Friday.

2716
03:13:45,650 --> 03:13:49,489
They told me Friday that that $283,000 was
approved,

2717
03:13:49,489 --> 03:13:51,704
and we got it, we had checked,

2718
03:13:51,704 --> 03:13:53,919
and we got it deposited today.

2719
03:13:56,865 --> 03:13:56,898
Wow.

2720
03:13:56,898 --> 03:13:59,174
So, so that's, that's, you know,

2721
03:13:59,174 --> 03:14:04,722
as much as I have complained and bitched
and whined around about that, I mean,

2722
03:14:04,722 --> 03:14:09,061
we've got the money back. So we got the
money back. Okay. So.

2723
03:14:09,061 --> 03:14:13,594
Yeah, that's good. That's money that we
spent and now we've gotten that back.

2724
03:14:13,594 --> 03:14:16,656
And so then that's going to go— where
would that go?

2725
03:14:17,287 --> 03:14:20,089
That's already in there. That's already in
the revenue.

2726
03:14:20,680 --> 03:14:25,090
So that's in this $898,000 or $900,000?

2727
03:14:25,090 --> 03:14:27,095
Uh, I don't know. Um, that, uh,

2728
03:14:27,095 --> 03:14:30,846
$283,000 may not be in there because that
only came today.

2729
03:14:30,846 --> 03:14:34,855
So that, that, uh, that came in after
these reports were made.

2730
03:14:34,855 --> 03:14:36,989
Well, all of the revenue for, um,

2731
03:14:36,989 --> 03:14:40,805
the 2 TDEC and ARPA grants have been
recognized as revenue.

2732
03:14:40,805 --> 03:14:45,720
Okay, so it's, it's in the revenue
already. You've posted it already, right?

2733
03:14:45,720 --> 03:14:46,043
already. You've posted it already, right?
Okay.

2734
03:14:46,043 --> 03:14:51,152
The payments don't have anything to do
with the P&L. It just hits savings bank.

2735
03:14:51,152 --> 03:14:54,062
Don't have anything to do with the real
cash.

2736
03:14:54,062 --> 03:14:58,783
It has to do with cash, but revenue is
already recognized. So, all right.

2737
03:14:58,992 --> 03:15:04,885
Well, thank you for— thank you for
answering my questions. I appreciate it.

2738
03:15:04,885 --> 03:15:08,170
It gets confusing. It really does.

2739
03:15:08,170 --> 03:15:15,417
Now, Deborah and I spent a lot of time
Passion back and forth about that $4

2740
03:15:15,417 --> 03:15:18,798
million and how it was not revenue.

2741
03:15:18,798 --> 03:15:25,079
And, um, so I had to look far and wide to
come up with that term—

2742
03:15:25,079 --> 03:15:31,359
appropriations, appropriated financial,
financial appropriations—

2743
03:15:31,359 --> 03:15:37,929
that is not revenue but is recognized in
this as From other sources?

2744
03:15:37,929 --> 03:15:43,243
From other sources, from our savings, our
fund balance.

2745
03:15:43,243 --> 03:15:48,751
So if this ever happens again, next storm,
remember that.

2746
03:15:48,751 --> 03:15:54,355
You know, when you take that out, it's not
revenue. Right.

2747
03:15:54,355 --> 03:15:59,765
That's why you have federal— this is kind
of accounting—

2748
03:15:59,765 --> 03:16:06,722
is why you got the federal government
billions and It keeps us employed.

2749
03:16:06,722 --> 03:16:11,843
All we can do is pity them because we're
not in debt.

2750
03:16:11,843 --> 03:16:17,135
I know. I'm just talking about the way you
recognize it's revenue

2751
03:16:17,135 --> 03:16:22,345
from non-revenue sources or whatever it
is. It is, but it isn't.

2752
03:16:24,621 --> 03:16:27,734
It's a loan from one account to another.

2753
03:16:27,734 --> 03:16:32,170
Now, if we had a water and sewer fund and
a general fund,

2754
03:16:32,170 --> 03:16:36,061
then we could do a transfer in and a
transfer out.

2755
03:16:36,061 --> 03:16:41,275
So the revenue would have appeared to
increase in the general fund.

2756
03:16:41,275 --> 03:16:47,345
But where we're in the general fund, we're
taking money from the general fund.

2757
03:16:47,345 --> 03:16:52,482
There's no transfer in and out. And if it
was, it would be a wash.

2758
03:16:52,482 --> 03:16:57,229
So it wouldn't show up as revenue anyhow,
just to confuse it.

2759
03:16:57,229 --> 03:17:02,988
Then we could build If you go back that
far, remember the Dighton Station?

2760
03:17:03,895 --> 03:17:07,703
They used money from the Metro Water and
Sewer.

2761
03:17:07,703 --> 03:17:12,078
Yeah, we found this money. Okay. All
right. Thank you.

2762
03:17:12,078 --> 03:17:14,022
Deborah, please proceed.

2763
03:17:14,022 --> 03:17:19,153
Okay. So basically, the general fund
revenue was $4.8 million,

2764
03:17:19,153 --> 03:17:24,946
which is 118.5% of the amended budget. So
our revenues were increased.

2765
03:17:24,946 --> 03:17:31,484
We had some higher-than-budget franchise
fees, state sales tax, TVA in lieu of—

2766
03:17:31,484 --> 03:17:33,388
and the franchise fees,

2767
03:17:33,388 --> 03:17:38,685
we actually got about $30,000 more because
the payment was late,

2768
03:17:38,685 --> 03:17:42,657
and so they included all the money that
came in.

2769
03:17:42,657 --> 03:17:43,958
Thank you.

2770
03:17:44,552 --> 03:17:49,309
Up to the date they cut the check. So
that's why we got a little bit more. Oh,

2771
03:17:49,309 --> 03:17:49,614
that's why we got a little bit more. Oh,
okay.

2772
03:17:49,614 --> 03:17:52,362
Okay. And that was on the what?

2773
03:17:52,362 --> 03:17:53,358
Franchise fees.

2774
03:17:53,358 --> 03:17:55,383
Franchise fees. And we got more?

2775
03:17:55,383 --> 03:18:00,966
You got $31,400 more than we budgeted for.

2776
03:18:00,966 --> 03:18:03,850
Oh, I see. Okay.

2777
03:18:03,850 --> 03:18:08,249
And building permits came in at $910,000.
Yeah.

2778
03:18:08,249 --> 03:18:14,802
And we budgeted $600,000, so that's an
extra $300,000, almost $11,000.

2779
03:18:14,802 --> 03:18:22,664
And if you look over to the expenses that
we spent for the, the general engineering,

2780
03:18:22,664 --> 03:18:27,251
those higher expenses were offset by the
revenue.

2781
03:18:27,251 --> 03:18:34,645
So because we spent the engineering, we
were able to recoup the revenue for it.

2782
03:18:34,645 --> 03:18:41,291
And TDEC and ARPA have all been
recognized, and actually they have been

2783
03:18:41,291 --> 03:18:42,321
recognized, and actually they have been
all billed,

2784
03:18:42,321 --> 03:18:48,124
so we are all set, just waiting for money
to come in on those.

2785
03:18:48,124 --> 03:18:51,307
And so that was an extra $257,000.

2786
03:18:51,307 --> 03:18:57,953
And then we had some one-time accounting
adjustment revenue of $58,000.

2787
03:18:57,953 --> 03:19:05,254
In the general fund for expenditures, Like
we talked about, it was $7,392,423,

2788
03:19:05,254 --> 03:19:09,559
which represents 91.44% of the amended
budget.

2789
03:19:09,559 --> 03:19:13,678
So we're coming about $691,000 under
budget.

2790
03:19:13,678 --> 03:19:19,575
Again, we have the FEMA and the storm
cleanups we talked about.

2791
03:19:19,575 --> 03:19:26,408
So garbage and recycling Garbage and
recycle, we were at $793,500 for the

2792
03:19:26,408 --> 03:19:27,157
recycle, we were at $793,500 for the
revenue,

2793
03:19:27,157 --> 03:19:29,684
which is 101.64% of budget.

2794
03:19:29,684 --> 03:19:35,020
$12,000 of that was for a one-time
accounting adjustment.

2795
03:19:35,020 --> 03:19:42,227
So we actually have a surplus in the
garbage and recycle of $21,400, which is

2796
03:19:42,227 --> 03:19:42,695
garbage and recycle of $21,400, which is
good.

2797
03:19:42,695 --> 03:19:47,001
And expenditures were only at 98.9% of
budget,

2798
03:19:47,001 --> 03:19:51,775
so we saved about $8,600 there from budget
as well.

2799
03:19:51,775 --> 03:19:53,834
So all in all, I mean,

2800
03:19:53,834 --> 03:20:00,105
nobody likes to see a negative $2 million
at the end of net income,

2801
03:20:00,105 --> 03:20:05,160
but we are getting reimbursed almost all
of that loss.

2802
03:20:05,160 --> 03:20:09,559
Well, actually more than the $2.5 million
loss,

2803
03:20:09,559 --> 03:20:15,363
so we will be getting that money back. So
it's not a bad year.

2804
03:20:15,363 --> 03:20:22,944
We, we budgeted to spend $4 million more
than we— and we only spent $2.5 million.

2805
03:20:22,944 --> 03:20:30,058
So, and every other city in this area will
be facing the similar challenges,

2806
03:20:30,058 --> 03:20:37,640
and we are fortunate that we had money in
the bank to spend that because we would

2807
03:20:37,640 --> 03:20:45,222
have had to take out loans or something
because our vendors wouldn't want to wait

2808
03:20:45,222 --> 03:20:49,153
for 8 months it might take FEMA to pay us.

2809
03:20:49,153 --> 03:20:55,612
So all in all, I think it's a good year,
and '27 will be even better.

2810
03:20:55,612 --> 03:21:02,554
Yeah, well, I, I have to say I completely
agree with your assessment there,

2811
03:21:02,554 --> 03:21:09,126
your conclusion. And Steve and, and Deb,
y'all are to be congratulated.

2812
03:21:09,126 --> 03:21:15,883
Steve, for your management of the budget
and your management of the storm

2813
03:21:15,883 --> 03:21:16,624
cleanup.

2814
03:21:16,624 --> 03:21:17,667
Thank you.

2815
03:21:17,667 --> 03:21:22,137
And, uh, it's— it was, it was big. It was
really big.

2816
03:21:22,137 --> 03:21:28,463
And I have to tell you, I've, I've spoken,
uh, to a few meet-and-greet, uh,

2817
03:21:28,463 --> 03:21:33,017
assemblages, assemblies over the last
couple of weeks,

2818
03:21:33,017 --> 03:21:39,680
and I get applause when I say that we've
spent $4 million on the storm cleanup.

2819
03:21:39,680 --> 03:21:41,310
You weren't expecting that?

2820
03:21:41,310 --> 03:21:46,590
I wasn't expecting that. I thought they'd
say boo. But yeah, I mean—

2821
03:21:46,590 --> 03:21:47,250
And no complaints.

2822
03:21:47,250 --> 03:21:49,890
No complaints. I haven't heard any
complaints. No, everybody's happy.

2823
03:21:49,890 --> 03:21:54,512
You know, there were a lot of people
really absolutely covered up and

2824
03:21:54,512 --> 03:21:55,383
really absolutely covered up and
devastated by

2825
03:21:55,383 --> 03:21:59,268
the storm and the debris that was around
their properties.

2826
03:21:59,268 --> 03:22:01,478
I mean, it was— Well, you saw it.

2827
03:22:01,478 --> 03:22:06,301
I mean, it was, it was bad, and it, it
just kept going on and on and on.

2828
03:22:06,301 --> 03:22:09,650
I, I thought, I thought it was never going
to end.

2829
03:22:09,650 --> 03:22:14,222
Yeah, yeah. Well, I was surprised because
somebody who lives up in the—

2830
03:22:14,222 --> 03:22:19,244
I don't know if it's District A or B, but
up in that north end near Evans, um,

2831
03:22:19,244 --> 03:22:22,142
said that they had huge piles of it up
there.

2832
03:22:22,271 --> 03:22:24,198
And I said, where in the world did that
all come from?

2833
03:22:24,278 --> 03:22:26,511
But So anyway, it was bad.

2834
03:22:26,511 --> 03:22:30,718
And thank goodness, as you say, we had the
money.

2835
03:22:30,718 --> 03:22:36,730
And that's, to me, that's why replenishing
the reserves is a priority.

2836
03:22:36,730 --> 03:22:42,483
Absolutely. Yeah, you never know, the next
one could be even worse.

2837
03:22:42,483 --> 03:22:46,595
I also want to do a shout out to Desiree.

2838
03:22:46,595 --> 03:22:51,811
She builds all that $3.4 million already
to to Pima,

2839
03:22:51,811 --> 03:22:55,622
which is a heroic— it's a lot of work.

2840
03:22:55,622 --> 03:23:01,139
So she did a great job, and I just wanted
to thank her.

2841
03:23:01,139 --> 03:23:04,976
Ah, wonderful. Thank you. Thank you,
Desiree. That's wonderful.

2842
03:23:04,976 --> 03:23:11,490
Uh, I wanna, I wanna make a— I want to
throw out a plea here, um, to the board,

2843
03:23:11,490 --> 03:23:15,613
because Desiree not only works here night
and day,

2844
03:23:15,613 --> 03:23:21,054
but during this Storm cleanup and this
effort to file all of this,

2845
03:23:21,054 --> 03:23:25,754
she took this work home on the weekends,
on the evenings.

2846
03:23:25,754 --> 03:23:30,289
And when we have completed with all of our
submissions,

2847
03:23:30,289 --> 03:23:36,308
we still have a small amount that we can
submit for her time and my time,

2848
03:23:36,308 --> 03:23:38,452
and that's administrative.

2849
03:23:38,452 --> 03:23:42,987
So whatever we have expended on
administrative for her,

2850
03:23:42,987 --> 03:23:46,945
I would like to provide that number to her
as a,

2851
03:23:46,945 --> 03:23:50,985
as a thank you and as a grant
administration fee,

2852
03:23:50,985 --> 03:23:57,417
because she is responsible for getting
this submitted and done in a proper and

2853
03:23:57,417 --> 03:24:03,766
accurate way that we're going to get Where
we're going to get our money back.

2854
03:24:03,766 --> 03:24:09,537
So I just want to throw that out there. We
don't have to vote on that.

2855
03:24:09,537 --> 03:24:15,721
I'm just making this announcement to you
all that I'll be coming with that.

2856
03:24:15,721 --> 03:24:22,153
So when that money is returned to us, I
want to make sure she is rewarded that

2857
03:24:22,153 --> 03:24:22,483
want to make sure she is rewarded that
way.

2858
03:24:22,483 --> 03:24:26,193
And I hope you all see that the way I see
it.

2859
03:24:26,193 --> 03:24:30,975
If we hadn't spent it with— if we hadn't
done it with her,

2860
03:24:30,975 --> 03:24:36,912
we would have had to spend that money with
a— With with an outside firm.

2861
03:24:36,912 --> 03:24:37,334
Mm-hmm.

2862
03:24:37,334 --> 03:24:38,687
I'd rather do it in-house.

2863
03:24:38,687 --> 03:24:41,863
And she's done, as Deborah says, she's
done an excellent job.

2864
03:24:41,863 --> 03:24:42,669
Mm-hmm.

2865
03:24:42,669 --> 03:24:45,893
So I just want to throw that out because
we,

2866
03:24:45,893 --> 03:24:51,315
we can file for those administrative fees.
Um, she had hours, I had hours.

2867
03:24:51,315 --> 03:24:57,103
You all know I've had, I had plenty of
hours that we, that were eligible to be,

2868
03:24:57,103 --> 03:24:57,323
hours that we, that were eligible to be,
uh,

2869
03:24:57,323 --> 03:25:01,426
submitted. Um, even, um, um, Victoria had
hours on that,

2870
03:25:01,426 --> 03:25:06,189
but we'll be able to apply that and get
the 75 and the 12.5 back.

2871
03:25:06,189 --> 03:25:12,124
So when it comes back, I'm hoping that we
would reward her with— for her efforts,

2872
03:25:12,124 --> 03:25:17,033
because, you know, she's been burning the
midnight oil on this and,

2873
03:25:17,033 --> 03:25:22,235
and doing it with a deadline in mind so we
could get this, get this in.

2874
03:25:22,235 --> 03:25:27,730
You know, we don't want this money to go
away before we get a chance to be—

2875
03:25:27,730 --> 03:25:29,782
have it rewarded back to us.

2876
03:25:29,782 --> 03:25:35,277
And I also want to add that we are
probably one of the very few cities that

2877
03:25:35,277 --> 03:25:35,570
probably one of the very few cities that
have

2878
03:25:35,570 --> 03:25:39,234
actually filed our FEMA because most
cities won't.

2879
03:25:39,234 --> 03:25:43,044
They'll— they're still probably gathering
paperwork,

2880
03:25:43,044 --> 03:25:48,832
and I'm sure most cities will probably
take till the August deadline to get the

2881
03:25:48,832 --> 03:25:51,763
filings in and maybe ask for extensions.

2882
03:25:51,763 --> 03:25:55,207
So to do it in a couple of weeks is
phenomenal.

2883
03:25:55,207 --> 03:26:00,263
So these other cities don't meet the
deadline and they just don't get

2884
03:26:00,263 --> 03:26:01,288
deadline and they just don't get
reimbursement?

2885
03:26:01,288 --> 03:26:06,051
You have to meet the deadline or, or they
might allow extensions.

2886
03:26:06,051 --> 03:26:09,568
They might or might not. Yeah, exactly,
exactly.

2887
03:26:09,568 --> 03:26:10,852
Okay, so you'll bring that back to us?

2888
03:26:10,852 --> 03:26:12,137
I'll bring that back up, yeah.

2889
03:26:12,137 --> 03:26:17,083
Okay, well, that's, that's wonderful,
wonderful to hear,

2890
03:26:17,083 --> 03:26:19,644
and thank you again, Desiree.

2891
03:26:19,644 --> 03:26:23,354
So anything else on the financial reports?

2892
03:26:23,354 --> 03:26:26,369
We'll be setting up the reports for FY27.

2893
03:26:26,369 --> 03:26:32,473
I'm going to put together the work papers
and send them off to the auditors and get

2894
03:26:32,473 --> 03:26:35,636
our audit started, and we're in good
shape.

2895
03:26:35,636 --> 03:26:40,784
And we'll probably see some additional
audit fees because we'll get a—

2896
03:26:40,784 --> 03:26:45,564
what is that called— Class A or A1 audit?
A1 audit. Single audit.

2897
03:26:45,564 --> 03:26:47,035
Single audit, right.

2898
03:26:47,035 --> 03:26:51,963
Because anything— anytime you spend over
$750,000 in a fiscal year,

2899
03:26:51,963 --> 03:26:55,640
you'll get an audit for that. And we've
done that.

2900
03:26:55,640 --> 03:26:59,170
Well, it's, it's a, it's a more stringent
audit.

2901
03:26:59,170 --> 03:27:05,200
So you have your normal audit, but once
you go over this million-dollar threshold,

2902
03:27:05,200 --> 03:27:10,716
the government gets really picky to make
sure that every dime you spent was

2903
03:27:10,716 --> 03:27:16,600
appropriate. So it's just extra work and
extra level of detail that they have to

2904
03:27:16,600 --> 03:27:17,188
perform.

2905
03:27:17,188 --> 03:27:21,127
Okay. It's a— what's the threshold?

2906
03:27:21,127 --> 03:27:25,816
$1 million. It used to be $700,000,
$750,000. Federal funds.

2907
03:27:25,816 --> 03:27:26,847
Oh, federal funds.

2908
03:27:26,847 --> 03:27:28,119
Federal funds. Okay.

2909
03:27:28,344 --> 03:27:30,986
Yes. All right. Okay.

2910
03:27:30,986 --> 03:27:34,508
Well, everybody, everybody's

2911
03:27:34,508 --> 03:27:36,772
Everybody's in it.

2912
03:27:36,949 --> 03:27:38,555
Yeah.

2913
03:27:38,555 --> 03:27:40,563
All right. Okay. Well, is there—

2914
03:27:40,563 --> 03:27:44,014
then is there a motion to accept the
financial reports?

2915
03:27:44,014 --> 03:27:45,298
So moved. Second.

2916
03:27:45,298 --> 03:27:47,837
Price moved and DeMarco seconded.

2917
03:27:47,837 --> 03:27:49,606
Any further discussion?

2918
03:27:49,606 --> 03:27:53,760
All in favor of accepting the reports,
please say aye.

2919
03:27:53,760 --> 03:27:54,563
Aye.

2920
03:27:54,563 --> 03:27:59,011
Any opposed? All right. That's 4-0. And
with our thanks.

2921
03:28:01,570 --> 03:28:04,812
Thank you. Thanks for, uh, your patience
and waiting till we got through with that.

2922
03:28:04,812 --> 03:28:06,376
Yes, thank you for that. Sorry.

2923
03:28:06,376 --> 03:28:10,474
Luckily I had some other projects on, uh,
getting ready for the audit,

2924
03:28:10,474 --> 03:28:14,454
so I'm going to work on that. I'm glad you
told me to go back there.

2925
03:28:14,454 --> 03:28:19,257
You didn't want to listen to all of that?

2926
03:28:19,257 --> 03:28:24,763
I, I did miss it. I really want— It'll be
on the web here soon and you can watch it.

2927
03:28:24,763 --> 03:28:28,303
Somebody wants to talk to you about
galvanized fences.

2928
03:28:28,303 --> 03:28:33,416
She may, uh, she may have wanted to hear
it, but I didn't want her to hear it.

2929
03:28:33,416 --> 03:28:37,611
You wanted me to spend my time with
fishing, right? Yeah, right.

2930
03:28:37,611 --> 03:28:41,127
All right, um, Mr. Mayor? Yes?

2931
03:28:41,127 --> 03:28:46,281
This chart, whoever did the chart, that's
really well done.

2932
03:28:46,281 --> 03:28:46,956
Yeah.

2933
03:28:46,956 --> 03:28:50,710
And if— and because that's so clear-cut,
easy to understand,

2934
03:28:50,710 --> 03:28:55,716
and It would be nice to memorialize it
somehow in a newsletter for citizens like

2935
03:28:55,716 --> 03:28:55,903
somehow in a newsletter for citizens like
the

2936
03:28:55,903 --> 03:29:00,408
gentleman that was in here a few months
ago complaining about, you know,

2937
03:29:00,408 --> 03:29:02,473
why we didn't pick up his leaves.

2938
03:29:02,473 --> 03:29:04,305
That's right.

2939
03:29:04,305 --> 03:29:08,809
You know, that that would be a good thing
to spend city money on.

2940
03:29:08,809 --> 03:29:14,561
A year ago, last July, no one in the City
of Oak Hill foresaw that kind of expense.

2941
03:29:14,561 --> 03:29:15,947
falling on the city.

2942
03:29:15,947 --> 03:29:21,491
And it is— we are so fortunate to have had
conservative fiscal management by the

2943
03:29:21,491 --> 03:29:23,778
city manager and this commission.

2944
03:29:23,778 --> 03:29:25,926
And that ought to be, as I say,

2945
03:29:25,926 --> 03:29:31,401
either memorialized in the newsletter or
framed somewhere for future reference.

2946
03:29:31,401 --> 03:29:36,044
Because I'm saying— It ought to be in the
newsletter for darn sure.

2947
03:29:36,044 --> 03:29:39,371
Yeah, we'll definitely put it in the
newsletter.

2948
03:29:39,371 --> 03:29:45,192
Last July, nobody in the City of Oak Hill
foresaw that kind of dollar demand on this

2949
03:29:45,192 --> 03:29:50,597
city. And I want you to know, do you
recognize that street on that photograph?

2950
03:29:50,597 --> 03:29:54,270
I believe that's on the mayor's street.
No, it's not.

2951
03:29:54,430 --> 03:29:57,347
I'm sure it's not, uh, because I,

2952
03:29:57,347 --> 03:30:01,590
I don't recall us having a porta-potty out
there

2953
03:30:01,590 --> 03:30:02,827
on the street.

2954
03:30:02,827 --> 03:30:05,160
I don't know where— well, it, um,

2955
03:30:05,160 --> 03:30:10,817
it's a main thoroughfare because it's got
double yellow That's a tiny boulevard.

2956
03:30:10,817 --> 03:30:16,191
Oh, now you're passing the buck. That's
where my porta-potty was in Winston.

2957
03:30:16,191 --> 03:30:20,645
Winston put that porta-potty out there
when the store moved in.

2958
03:30:20,645 --> 03:30:22,696
He wasn't taking any chances.

2959
03:30:22,696 --> 03:30:29,471
Oh me. Um, all right, well, I think we are
now at the public comments.

2960
03:30:29,471 --> 03:30:33,924
And we have none— no one here left to
comment,

2961
03:30:33,924 --> 03:30:41,086
so we'll move on to the next item, which
is old business, and we had none.

2962
03:30:41,086 --> 03:30:47,958
That's number 8. Number 10— we've done 9—
we're at 10, public comments.

2963
03:30:47,958 --> 03:30:51,636
Again, no one here. 11, staff reports.

2964
03:30:51,636 --> 03:30:54,099
All right, Tommy Campsey.

2965
03:30:54,099 --> 03:31:00,618
Oh, that's right.

2966
03:31:03,618 --> 03:31:05,791
I'll go quick. All right,

2967
03:31:05,791 --> 03:31:11,788
so we had a total of 7 instances that took
place in the last 30 days.

2968
03:31:11,788 --> 03:31:17,437
I've sent them to the Metro Sergeant that
he will get back to me.

2969
03:31:17,437 --> 03:31:24,303
He's— last 2 months, he's got back with me
2 or 3 days after I give his report,

2970
03:31:24,303 --> 03:31:27,605
so I'll forward that on to Mr. Collie.

2971
03:31:27,605 --> 03:31:33,689
We have 2 frauds, 2 car burglaries, 1
burglary, 1 motor vehicle theft,

2972
03:31:33,689 --> 03:31:40,381
and 1 assault. The, the first fraud was
committed in the 800 block of Tremont

2973
03:31:40,381 --> 03:31:40,816
committed in the 800 block of Tremont
Court

2974
03:31:40,816 --> 03:31:47,508
on 6/25. The burglary was committed on
6/26. 27 in the 900 block of Travelers

2975
03:31:47,508 --> 03:31:48,029
6/26. 27 in the 900 block of Travelers
Court.

2976
03:31:48,029 --> 03:31:52,375
The motor vehicle theft was committed on
July 1st,

2977
03:31:52,375 --> 03:31:59,675
and that was in the house across from, you
know, where the Lipscomb soccer field is,

2978
03:31:59,675 --> 03:32:01,935
right there by the church.

2979
03:32:01,935 --> 03:32:07,758
There's a house over there, and it was—
that car was taken from it.

2980
03:32:07,758 --> 03:32:13,842
A car burglary was— Was that Casey Riggs'
house up there? Do you know?

2981
03:32:13,842 --> 03:32:20,273
The, the car was stolen from the 3700
block. They don't give me the actual

2982
03:32:20,273 --> 03:32:20,881
block. They don't give me the actual
number.

2983
03:32:20,881 --> 03:32:28,095
Uh, the car burglary was hap— uh, it took
place in the 4700 block of Franklin Road.

2984
03:32:28,095 --> 03:32:32,875
I know that one took place at John Overton
High School.

2985
03:32:32,875 --> 03:32:38,872
Uh, another fraud took place on July 20th
in the 4000 block of Outer.

2986
03:32:38,872 --> 03:32:44,869
The assault was committed on July 21st at
3 o'clock in the afternoon.

2987
03:32:44,869 --> 03:32:46,694
That's kind of crazy.

2988
03:32:46,694 --> 03:32:51,474
I don't know whether that was strict road
rage or what,

2989
03:32:51,474 --> 03:32:56,688
but it was in the 5100 block of Granny
White. Where is that?

2990
03:32:56,688 --> 03:32:59,035
5100 block of Granny White?

2991
03:32:59,035 --> 03:33:04,350
It's on— it's way out. It's close to
Norwalk Boulevard.

2992
03:33:04,350 --> 03:33:05,056
Oh, okay.

2993
03:33:05,056 --> 03:33:08,820
Oh yeah, well, it's— well, we don't go all
the way. Yeah, is it That far out?

2994
03:33:08,820 --> 03:33:09,434
Yes, sir.

2995
03:33:09,434 --> 03:33:12,133
Okay. That may not have even been in Oak
Hill.

2996
03:33:12,133 --> 03:33:18,137
And then the last thing we have is a car
burglary that was committed in the 700

2997
03:33:18,137 --> 03:33:20,569
block of Blevins, and that's it.

2998
03:33:20,569 --> 03:33:24,977
Nothing— great thing about it, you can
look at this, yeah,

2999
03:33:24,977 --> 03:33:30,753
we're not too happy about 7 things, but
there's no crime of violence, right?

3000
03:33:30,753 --> 03:33:36,682
So as long as we don't have anything
personal involved, I, I feel decent about

3001
03:33:36,682 --> 03:33:36,910
personal involved, I, I feel decent about
it.

3002
03:33:36,910 --> 03:33:42,838
I mean, okay, this is as good as it's
going to get, to be honest with you, in,

3003
03:33:42,838 --> 03:33:48,994
in crime. You're not— you know, this is—
it's not Camelot, but it's pretty close.

3004
03:33:48,994 --> 03:33:54,846
You know, as long as we deal with property
crimes instead of personal crimes,

3005
03:33:54,846 --> 03:33:58,494
we're all good. Okay, anybody got any
questions?

3006
03:33:59,510 --> 03:34:02,975
No questions? Nope. Thank you. Thank you,
Tommy.

3007
03:34:02,975 --> 03:34:08,225
How are the Vols going to do this year?

3008
03:34:08,225 --> 03:34:14,282
Uh, I don't know. I'd like to say we only
had

3009
03:34:14,282 --> 03:34:18,320
2 losses, Georgia and Alabama.

3010
03:34:18,320 --> 03:34:21,147
Play Alabama at home.

3011
03:34:21,147 --> 03:34:24,265
All right, City Manager.

3012
03:34:24,392 --> 03:34:29,963
Okay, um, uh, we have, uh, discussed a lot
of things already on my report,

3013
03:34:29,963 --> 03:34:34,179
but I am here to, um, serve you all with a
subpoena— no,

3014
03:34:34,179 --> 03:34:39,449
I mean with a notice of the, uh, of the,
uh, uh, special call meeting.

3015
03:34:39,449 --> 03:34:42,536
This way I'm giving you your, uh, letter.

3016
03:34:42,536 --> 03:34:43,403
Oh, okay.

3017
03:34:43,403 --> 03:34:50,093
So there's Scott and there's Vice Mayor
Winston Evans. Here's Mayor Grimes.

3018
03:34:50,093 --> 03:34:54,553
And the, uh, Grimes and David DeMarco
right there.

3019
03:34:54,553 --> 03:34:58,478
And I, I'll have to send, uh, O'Dell to
her.

3020
03:34:58,478 --> 03:35:04,990
So I just want to let you know that there
will be a special call meeting,

3021
03:35:04,990 --> 03:35:10,252
as you mentioned, Mayor, on August 19th at
1 o'clock, 1 PM.

3022
03:35:10,252 --> 03:35:17,388
And we will, um, hopefully, uh, pass the
second reading of the of the ordinance.

3023
03:35:17,388 --> 03:35:24,435
Now, it seemed like people were relatively
okay with the amendment because they

3024
03:35:24,435 --> 03:35:31,661
didn't revolt when they left. So maybe
second reading will go through as planned.

3025
03:35:31,661 --> 03:35:34,515
I don't know. What do you think?

3026
03:35:34,515 --> 03:35:38,075
I would think so. I mean, unless, you
know, again,

3027
03:35:38,075 --> 03:35:40,639
it depends on what audience you get.

3028
03:35:41,143 --> 03:35:43,350
Is there anything else we—

3029
03:35:43,350 --> 03:35:47,509
this board needs to do on that document
before it

3030
03:35:47,509 --> 03:35:50,056
comes up for a second reading?

3031
03:35:50,056 --> 03:35:56,282
I think we might hear something about the
solid fences only being allowed

3032
03:35:56,282 --> 03:36:02,678
behind in the accessory structure in D, E,
and F. I hope not, but we might.

3033
03:36:02,678 --> 03:36:05,583
We'll have a public comment, not a—

3034
03:36:08,014 --> 03:36:08,246
Okay.

3035
03:36:08,246 --> 03:36:11,652
So we've had to pull up public hearings.

3036
03:36:11,652 --> 03:36:15,653
So, um, okay, so back to, uh, back down
to, uh,

3037
03:36:15,653 --> 03:36:21,613
just other things going on in the day in
the life of the city manager.

3038
03:36:21,613 --> 03:36:27,999
Uh, you all knew that we had gotten
Evansdale and Kingsview paved, and, uh,

3039
03:36:27,999 --> 03:36:34,725
we are in the process of running the
milling process process over Battery Lane.

3040
03:36:34,725 --> 03:36:41,537
That started the casting— raising the
castings and the milling started tomorrow.

3041
03:36:41,537 --> 03:36:47,411
Starts tomorrow, and paving starts next
week, starting on August 4th.

3042
03:36:47,411 --> 03:36:54,393
And we have sent out communication to the
neighbors on the side streets of Battery

3043
03:36:54,393 --> 03:37:01,545
Lane and down some of the other streets to
notify neighbors that we're going to have

3044
03:37:01,545 --> 03:37:07,505
heavy equipment and paving equipment out
there. So just let them know.

3045
03:37:07,505 --> 03:37:09,293
Um, Steve, excuse me.

3046
03:37:09,357 --> 03:37:13,628
Yeah, are we doing the Waterswood, um,
piping or whatever?

3047
03:37:13,709 --> 03:37:15,812
The Waterswood culvert project?

3048
03:37:16,005 --> 03:37:18,429
Yeah, culvert. Yeah, we're, uh, is that
part of this?

3049
03:37:18,429 --> 03:37:22,141
No, that, that's, uh, not part of this.
Okay.

3050
03:37:22,141 --> 03:37:27,751
I was hoping to get that I thought it
would be done before we paved,

3051
03:37:27,751 --> 03:37:33,279
but we'll just have to go back and pave
it. Funny you mention that.

3052
03:37:33,279 --> 03:37:39,961
I'm meeting with Kimberly Horn tomorrow to
go over the drawings and the plans for

3053
03:37:39,961 --> 03:37:42,931
Waterswood and for Lakemont up here.

3054
03:37:42,931 --> 03:37:49,448
So I was just looking at the— at our— at
my rate— at our budget that we passed,

3055
03:37:49,448 --> 03:37:49,778
my rate— at our budget that we passed,
and,

3056
03:37:49,778 --> 03:37:56,048
um, what I'm seeing Is we put $155,000 in
there for Waterswood and Lakemont,

3057
03:37:56,048 --> 03:38:00,998
and we also put $284,000 in for culverts
and other projects.

3058
03:38:00,998 --> 03:38:05,618
So I'm guessing it's probably going to
take all of that.

3059
03:38:05,618 --> 03:38:10,816
That looks like about, uh, $430,000 for
both of those projects.

3060
03:38:10,816 --> 03:38:15,436
This one up here at Lakemont It's going to
be expensive.

3061
03:38:15,436 --> 03:38:18,818
It's 15 feet down, so it's going to be a—

3062
03:38:18,818 --> 03:38:19,123
Oh.

3063
03:38:19,123 --> 03:38:21,205
Pretty, pretty good project.

3064
03:38:21,205 --> 03:38:26,634
But just to remind you all, that culvert
under that street has collapsed.

3065
03:38:26,634 --> 03:38:30,798
So as it rains and these big gully washer
rains come in,

3066
03:38:30,798 --> 03:38:33,327
it's just getting worse and worse.

3067
03:38:33,327 --> 03:38:37,938
So we've got to get on that as soon as we
can get— look at it.

3068
03:38:37,938 --> 03:38:43,887
And see if, um, if, if it's a project that
we can do with our public works or if

3069
03:38:43,887 --> 03:38:49,316
it's a project we're going to have to bid
out. So we'll, we'll know that.

3070
03:38:49,316 --> 03:38:54,596
I'll be a little bit more closer to
knowing the answer to that tomorrow

3071
03:38:54,596 --> 03:38:55,265
knowing the answer to that tomorrow
afternoon

3072
03:38:55,265 --> 03:39:00,917
after I talk to Kimberly Horn. But we
have, we have a meeting to go over the

3073
03:39:00,917 --> 03:39:01,363
have, we have a meeting to go over the
plans.

3074
03:39:01,363 --> 03:39:06,717
But that's, um, that's in our— that's what
we put the money in here for.

3075
03:39:06,717 --> 03:39:11,254
for us to take care of these, these
crumbling infrastructure.

3076
03:39:11,254 --> 03:39:17,054
Um, so I wanted to tell you about that. I
want to tell you about Battery Lane.

3077
03:39:17,054 --> 03:39:22,557
Um, we should have enough money after
Battery Lane to pave Shadowstone and

3078
03:39:22,557 --> 03:39:23,078
Battery Lane to pave Shadowstone and
Rainbow

3079
03:39:23,078 --> 03:39:28,284
Place. Um, the other streets that are
seriously— got serious problems,

3080
03:39:28,284 --> 03:39:31,407
I don't know I don't know if you all know,

3081
03:39:31,407 --> 03:39:34,902
if you've been up on Green Valley Drive
lately,

3082
03:39:34,902 --> 03:39:40,628
that if you remember how bad the sinking
street was on Norfleet and Prescott,

3083
03:39:40,628 --> 03:39:42,636
Mm-hmm. This is even worse.

3084
03:39:42,636 --> 03:39:48,734
I mean, there it starts to sink and then
there's a big hole right in the middle of

3085
03:39:48,734 --> 03:39:54,758
the sinking portion. But that's got to be
repaired. And I may just have to, Yeah.

3086
03:39:54,758 --> 03:39:56,691
Just, just get it and, um,

3087
03:39:56,691 --> 03:40:02,789
take some money from somewhere and just go
ahead and get them, uh, get them fixed,

3088
03:40:02,789 --> 03:40:06,210
fix that. But, uh, I've got, um, Davis
Duncan,

3089
03:40:06,210 --> 03:40:10,449
my cohort in crime in the paving that
works for Sessions.

3090
03:40:10,449 --> 03:40:15,283
He's gonna give me an estimate on that
this week. He's very good.

3091
03:40:15,283 --> 03:40:20,786
He's very good at his job. He's very
trustworthy. He's right on top of it.

3092
03:40:20,786 --> 03:40:25,248
it, and, uh, he's, he's, he's a good, good
man to work with.

3093
03:40:26,693 --> 03:40:29,607
Um, okay, so, so we've got Battery,
Shadowstone,

3094
03:40:29,607 --> 03:40:32,521
and Green Valley for paving in this fiscal
year.

3095
03:40:32,521 --> 03:40:37,756
No, uh, we got Battery, Shadowstone, oh,
uh, Rainbow Place.

3096
03:40:37,756 --> 03:40:38,575
Rainbow Place.

3097
03:40:38,575 --> 03:40:40,538
Uh, what I don't have,

3098
03:40:40,538 --> 03:40:47,232
what I don't have budgeted for or
estimates on is Cherrywood and, uh, Green

3099
03:40:47,232 --> 03:40:47,856
estimates on is Cherrywood and, uh, Green
Valley.

3100
03:40:47,856 --> 03:40:51,337
But they are in dire need of attention.

3101
03:40:51,337 --> 03:40:56,959
So if you get a chance to drive up either
one of those streets,

3102
03:40:56,959 --> 03:41:04,456
you'll see what I'm talking about. We, in
the budget, we talked about the TDEC ARPA.

3103
03:41:04,456 --> 03:41:11,328
We have submitted We submitted all the
charges, uh, including the $258,000 in

3104
03:41:11,328 --> 03:41:11,863
charges, uh, including the $258,000 in
match,

3105
03:41:11,863 --> 03:41:13,827
the $738,000 in grant,

3106
03:41:13,827 --> 03:41:19,360
and we are starting to see that money roll
back in here to us.

3107
03:41:19,360 --> 03:41:26,053
And I think I mentioned earlier that
we've, uh, we've submitted everything,

3108
03:41:26,053 --> 03:41:26,767
we've, uh, we've submitted everything,
and, uh,

3109
03:41:26,767 --> 03:41:33,282
they still owe us, um, of the $100,000
they owe us, They will approve the

3110
03:41:33,282 --> 03:41:33,996
they owe us, They will approve the
$65,000,

3111
03:41:33,996 --> 03:41:38,280
um, this week, and we should see that next
week.

3112
03:41:38,280 --> 03:41:43,010
And then all we have left from them is
about $36,000,

3113
03:41:43,010 --> 03:41:50,328
and it'll probably be 2 or 3 weeks before
we get that because we've got some other

3114
03:41:50,328 --> 03:41:52,827
deliverables that we've got,

3115
03:41:52,827 --> 03:41:58,003
just documentation we've got to clean up
and send to them.

3116
03:41:58,003 --> 03:42:01,484
So that will end the TDEC ARPA program.

3117
03:42:01,484 --> 03:42:05,946
So my question to you is, if you enjoyed
this one,

3118
03:42:05,946 --> 03:42:08,980
will you want to get the next one?

3119
03:42:08,980 --> 03:42:15,406
Because there are other grants out there
that are TDEC grants, not ARPA,

3120
03:42:15,406 --> 03:42:21,385
but grants that we can get to do culverts
and other roadway issues.

3121
03:42:21,385 --> 03:42:24,241
So if you're interested in that,

3122
03:42:24,241 --> 03:42:29,863
I can bring those back to you when we get
We could do it again.

3123
03:42:29,863 --> 03:42:36,825
It won't be as document and time sensitive
and restrictive as this TDEC grant,

3124
03:42:36,825 --> 03:42:42,090
but because this was ARPA, this was
actually federal money.

3125
03:42:42,090 --> 03:42:44,857
And, um, but they're out there.

3126
03:42:44,857 --> 03:42:47,802
But it comes with that, you know,

3127
03:42:47,802 --> 03:42:54,495
because Oak Hill is not a depressed
community and it has money in the bank.

3128
03:42:54,495 --> 03:42:54,640
Yeah.

3129
03:42:54,992 --> 03:42:58,280
We have a higher percentage of our match,

3130
03:42:58,280 --> 03:43:03,413
and we're going to get hit with 25%, 30%,
or 35% match on these.

3131
03:43:03,413 --> 03:43:07,584
But still, I think it's good money after
good money.

3132
03:43:07,584 --> 03:43:11,674
Yeah, 65% is better than nothing. Yeah,
absolutely.

3133
03:43:11,674 --> 03:43:14,870
Yeah, I agree, absolutely. I'd love to see
those.

3134
03:43:14,870 --> 03:43:18,476
So I say we, we, we, we keep pushing on
this.

3135
03:43:18,476 --> 03:43:21,601
The big ARPA, the federal ARPA that we—

3136
03:43:21,601 --> 03:43:26,729
they just handed us a check for $1.3
million. That's been spent.

3137
03:43:26,729 --> 03:43:33,220
We spent it on culverts and cleanup and
all the things people want to hear about,

3138
03:43:33,220 --> 03:43:35,784
about getting these culverts up.

3139
03:43:35,784 --> 03:43:42,034
And we did spend some of that money on,
um, on the T-deck because we ran over,

3140
03:43:42,034 --> 03:43:44,598
we ran over on some costs there.

3141
03:43:44,598 --> 03:43:48,685
We have spent all that money and it's all
been, uh,

3142
03:43:48,685 --> 03:43:54,774
it's been reported and we've met the
timeline on reporting back to the state

3143
03:43:54,774 --> 03:43:55,015
timeline on reporting back to the state
and

3144
03:43:55,015 --> 03:44:01,425
local finance slurf is what they call it.
And so we feel pretty good about that.

3145
03:44:01,425 --> 03:44:05,832
We've got our big ARPA spent, we've got
our TDEC spent,

3146
03:44:05,832 --> 03:44:10,720
we're getting our TDEC money back, and so
we're rolling here.

3147
03:44:10,720 --> 03:44:16,970
But we've We've handled $2 million worth
of cleanup and fix-up on culverts and

3148
03:44:16,970 --> 03:44:22,339
stormwater in this city in the last 2 and
a half years. Yeah, yeah.

3149
03:44:22,564 --> 03:44:24,319
Let me just ask you what—

3150
03:44:24,319 --> 03:44:30,145
I know where we are on the big list of all
the water projects, stormwater projects,

3151
03:44:30,145 --> 03:44:34,427
but how about the culvert cleanup that
Clean Earth was doing?

3152
03:44:34,427 --> 03:44:37,095
Did they finish that project citywide?

3153
03:44:37,320 --> 03:44:42,089
Yes, yes they did. Everything that we had
on our list, on our map,

3154
03:44:42,089 --> 03:44:47,869
we had a GIS map for that and their guy in
their truck took that map and when he

3155
03:44:47,869 --> 03:44:52,204
found one of those green dots that we put
out there for him,

3156
03:44:52,204 --> 03:44:54,516
he went out and cleaned them up.

3157
03:44:54,516 --> 03:44:57,615
That was the barge map? Wasn't that the
barge map?

3158
03:44:57,615 --> 03:44:59,990
No, actually they provided a map,

3159
03:44:59,990 --> 03:45:04,309
but we developed a map through Kimby Horn
with GIS that had—

3160
03:45:04,309 --> 03:45:06,252
because they collected the—

3161
03:45:06,252 --> 03:45:10,714
Barge collected that modeling and then
they provided it to us.

3162
03:45:10,714 --> 03:45:13,953
So we built that map for the government
guys.

3163
03:45:13,953 --> 03:45:18,704
But it didn't get all— I mean, it didn't
get every single culvert.

3164
03:45:18,704 --> 03:45:23,022
There's still culverts out there that need
to be cleaned up.

3165
03:45:23,022 --> 03:45:28,708
And maybe it might be some of them that we
cleaned out and they've already Hmm.

3166
03:45:28,708 --> 03:45:33,026
But when a basketball rolls in a culvert
and it clogs it up,

3167
03:45:33,026 --> 03:45:38,784
there's nothing you can do but, you know,
get it out. I mean, it don't come out.

3168
03:45:38,784 --> 03:45:42,743
But we feel pretty good about closing out
these ARPA's.

3169
03:45:42,743 --> 03:45:44,398
But we won't, you know,

3170
03:45:44,398 --> 03:45:49,940
we won't have that money to play around
with next year or maybe even the next

3171
03:45:49,940 --> 03:45:50,300
with next year or maybe even the next
year.

3172
03:45:50,300 --> 03:45:53,899
It'll take us a couple of years to develop
a plan.

3173
03:45:56,862 --> 03:45:57,201
Yes, sir.

3174
03:45:57,201 --> 03:46:01,173
Um, you had mentioned— it's mentioned
previously, I thought,

3175
03:46:01,173 --> 03:46:06,337
in a conversation that you were looking at
doing Battery Lane paving at night.

3176
03:46:06,337 --> 03:46:09,448
Is that still true or no? We talked about
that.

3177
03:46:09,448 --> 03:46:14,678
They have not given me that indication
that they're going to do it. Okay. Okay.

3178
03:46:14,678 --> 03:46:18,253
They are putting extra traffic people out
there. Okay.

3179
03:46:18,253 --> 03:46:21,629
And They're not going to be paving on the
weekends.

3180
03:46:21,629 --> 03:46:22,351
Okay.

3181
03:46:22,351 --> 03:46:24,004
They didn't tell me that.

3182
03:46:24,004 --> 03:46:29,425
I noticed they had put out traffic cones
and people had run over a number of them.

3183
03:46:29,425 --> 03:46:33,193
They were smushed. Hey, Battery Lane. It's
a narrow road.

3184
03:46:33,193 --> 03:46:37,027
If you step out of the car out there,
you'll get run over.

3185
03:46:37,027 --> 03:46:37,316
Yeah.

3186
03:46:37,316 --> 03:46:39,970
I mean, it's, uh, people drive crazy on
that street.

3187
03:46:39,970 --> 03:46:43,695
And they're going to slow down because
they can't get around some of this

3188
03:46:43,695 --> 03:46:45,328
equipment unless they slow down.

3189
03:46:45,570 --> 03:46:46,991
Is it going to be one lane at a time?

3190
03:46:46,991 --> 03:46:51,512
One lane at a time. They're going to all
shift over to Tyne again.

3191
03:46:51,512 --> 03:46:54,731
Yeah, the, um, and we're just doing the
Soaper.

3192
03:46:54,731 --> 03:46:57,745
We're doing the Soaper even though Oak
Hill,

3193
03:46:57,745 --> 03:47:00,484
we'd be responsible for that south lane.

3194
03:47:00,484 --> 03:47:05,758
I'm glad you brought that up because I
have developed a relationship with our

3195
03:47:05,758 --> 03:47:06,032
have developed a relationship with our
NDOT

3196
03:47:06,032 --> 03:47:11,169
people. So when we start talking about
Paving that, I called Phillip Jones,

3197
03:47:11,169 --> 03:47:15,416
who's now the assistant director at NDOT,
and I said, Phillip,

3198
03:47:15,416 --> 03:47:17,265
we have a shared challenge,

3199
03:47:17,265 --> 03:47:21,512
and we can either pave that and you can
pay us back in an MOU,

3200
03:47:21,512 --> 03:47:26,101
or you can have your people pave it and
you can do it on your dime,

3201
03:47:26,101 --> 03:47:30,005
because you got to pave it and mill it and
fix it anyway.

3202
03:47:30,005 --> 03:47:35,074
And they've agreed that they will pave
that part between Soper and Leland.

3203
03:47:35,074 --> 03:47:38,224
So they're going to pave that. Oh my
goodness.

3204
03:47:38,224 --> 03:47:43,156
Yeah, so that's about a $90,000 project.
But that's a good relationship.

3205
03:47:43,156 --> 03:47:47,060
They're paying— they're paving all over
the county, okay?

3206
03:47:47,060 --> 03:47:49,800
I mean, they're going everywhere paving.

3207
03:47:49,800 --> 03:47:53,224
So he thought it was— he thought they
could do it.

3208
03:47:53,224 --> 03:47:57,745
He ran up the flagpole, he came back,
said, we'll take care of it,

3209
03:47:57,745 --> 03:48:03,430
our paver will pave that when you all get
done. We'll come back and pave that part.

3210
03:48:03,430 --> 03:48:05,630
With no charge to us?

3211
03:48:05,630 --> 03:48:06,950
Yeah, no charge to us.

3212
03:48:06,950 --> 03:48:08,210
Wow.

3213
03:48:08,210 --> 03:48:10,695
Because he's going to have to pave half of
it anyway.

3214
03:48:10,695 --> 03:48:12,382
We've got to get equipment out here.

3215
03:48:12,382 --> 03:48:15,570
So, I mean, paving the other side is not
going to be that much more.

3216
03:48:15,570 --> 03:48:17,050
That's great.

3217
03:48:17,050 --> 03:48:20,950
And we're not going to— he's just going to
eat our half. Yep. That's the story.

3218
03:48:20,950 --> 03:48:23,030
Dadgum.

3219
03:48:23,030 --> 03:48:26,270
So thank y'all very much. Thank you.

3220
03:48:26,270 --> 03:48:26,750
Yeah.

3221
03:48:27,290 --> 03:48:33,754
Anyway, so that's where we're going with
that. I'm glad you brought that up.

3222
03:48:33,754 --> 03:48:37,581
I left that off my notes. $45,000. Oh my
God.

3223
03:48:37,581 --> 03:48:43,874
And you all, we've already had the
discussion about the debris removal and

3224
03:48:43,874 --> 03:48:44,385
discussion about the debris removal and
that's

3225
03:48:44,385 --> 03:48:46,256
been submitted. Again,

3226
03:48:46,256 --> 03:48:53,145
I can't say enough about Desiree and her
hard work and Working with the FEMA team

3227
03:48:53,145 --> 03:48:53,315
hard work and Working with the FEMA team
on

3228
03:48:53,315 --> 03:49:00,034
getting that together. That little sheet,
that little— I call it the dashboard.

3229
03:49:00,034 --> 03:49:03,946
That was made so you could take home with
you.

3230
03:49:03,946 --> 03:49:08,454
I'm not going to go over every piece of it
right now,

3231
03:49:08,454 --> 03:49:12,706
but me and Claude worked on that. You know
Claude?

3232
03:49:12,706 --> 03:49:14,248
I've heard of him.

3233
03:49:14,248 --> 03:49:20,909
Well, he's a pretty good guy. Oh, oh,
Claude, yeah. I want to show you what I

3234
03:49:20,909 --> 03:49:21,255
Claude, yeah. I want to show you what I
did.

3235
03:49:21,255 --> 03:49:28,348
I took this information right here that
Desiree put together after she got through

3236
03:49:28,348 --> 03:49:32,587
doing her— see this information right
here, FEMA?

3237
03:49:32,587 --> 03:49:38,815
It's got debris removal, Category A,
Category A, Category B, total FEMA,

3238
03:49:38,815 --> 03:49:41,323
the state of Tennessee, TEMA.

3239
03:49:41,323 --> 03:49:44,092
I put that into Claude and said,

3240
03:49:44,092 --> 03:49:50,752
Make me a slick dashboard that provides
all this information in a board-ready

3241
03:49:50,752 --> 03:49:51,185
all this information in a board-ready
deck,

3242
03:49:51,185 --> 03:49:57,845
and it came back with that. That's good.
How many prompts did you have to do?

3243
03:49:57,845 --> 03:50:04,679
As long as it took me to explain it to you
is how long it took for me to do it.

3244
03:50:04,679 --> 03:50:10,907
And Desiree's always saying, how long did
it take? Less than 30 seconds.

3245
03:50:10,907 --> 03:50:16,530
That's an AI. Program? Yeah, that we, we
have a— we have ChatGPT.

3246
03:50:16,530 --> 03:50:22,585
I call it Claude, but there is a Claude
that does, um, does, uh, Excel

3247
03:50:22,585 --> 03:50:23,710
that does, um, does, uh, Excel
spreadsheets.

3248
03:50:23,710 --> 03:50:30,198
But, uh, our ChatGPT is a state-sponsored
website that we, we tagged on to.

3249
03:50:30,198 --> 03:50:35,561
Uh, in a related matter, what is the
charge There's no charge.

3250
03:50:35,561 --> 03:50:38,588
You can buy it, you can upgrade it.

3251
03:50:38,588 --> 03:50:45,768
It's like $20 a month to upgrade it to do
more things and have more entries and all

3252
03:50:45,768 --> 03:50:51,737
that, but as far as the basic usage of
that, there's no charge to us.

3253
03:50:51,737 --> 03:50:58,744
You just can— there's some things I've
heard where companies have used so much of

3254
03:50:58,744 --> 03:51:05,750
They call them tokens, and people have
just busted budgets. We're not doing that.

3255
03:51:05,750 --> 03:51:09,383
We don't have that. We don't have that AI.

3256
03:51:09,383 --> 03:51:13,103
You've got a flat rate to— Yeah, flat
rate.

3257
03:51:13,103 --> 03:51:14,371
Flat rate.

3258
03:51:14,371 --> 03:51:20,214
I've got a situation where I have a client
and they had their 3 or 4 properties that

3259
03:51:20,214 --> 03:51:22,649
are at issue and the value of that.

3260
03:51:22,649 --> 03:51:26,266
And so they fed their appraisals into an
AI program.

3261
03:51:26,266 --> 03:51:31,135
And they fed the state's appraisals in,
and the AI came back and said,

3262
03:51:31,135 --> 03:51:35,309
your appraisals are better than the
state's, and here's why.

3263
03:51:35,309 --> 03:51:40,665
The question is, could you submit that to
the judge? No, it's not admissible.

3264
03:51:40,665 --> 03:51:41,567
Who's the witness?

3265
03:51:41,567 --> 03:51:46,939
I'd put it in. I'd put it in as an offer
of proof. I'd want to make a record.

3266
03:51:46,939 --> 03:51:48,543
I'd love to send it up.

3267
03:51:48,543 --> 03:51:49,638
Okay.

3268
03:51:49,638 --> 03:51:52,295
So that concludes my report.

3269
03:51:53,659 --> 03:51:56,136
All right, good report. Very good.

3270
03:51:56,136 --> 03:52:00,159
You know, in my opinion, a lot of good
news.

3271
03:52:00,159 --> 03:52:03,850
Yeah, yeah, it's all, all very good news.

3272
03:52:03,850 --> 03:52:10,061
Um, okay, and let's see now, Steve, um,
we've got the, we've got the,

3273
03:52:10,061 --> 03:52:14,561
um, meeting coming up, the special called
meeting,

3274
03:52:14,561 --> 03:52:19,242
and then we've got another meeting,
regular meeting,

3275
03:52:19,242 --> 03:52:25,003
on August 20-something. I can't remember
when it is. 26th? 20th?

3276
03:52:25,003 --> 03:52:26,930
25th.

3277
03:52:26,930 --> 03:52:28,938
25th. August 25th. Okay.

3278
03:52:28,938 --> 03:52:33,623
And are we, um, planning to have any
business there, uh,

3279
03:52:33,623 --> 03:52:37,639
other than the swearing-in and all that
sort of—

3280
03:52:37,639 --> 03:52:38,864
We have not had that.

3281
03:52:38,864 --> 03:52:43,006
We haven't done much more than the
swearing-in and the basic, you know,

3282
03:52:43,006 --> 03:52:44,348
minutes and Financials.

3283
03:52:44,348 --> 03:52:48,081
And right, you know, we only had— we
weren't going to have July,

3284
03:52:48,081 --> 03:52:50,356
and it's not going to be much for July.

3285
03:52:51,537 --> 03:52:55,716
So yeah, that's what I was wondering,
whether there was anything else in the

3286
03:52:55,716 --> 03:52:56,101
whether there was anything else in the
hopper.

3287
03:52:56,101 --> 03:52:59,401
Is there anything else in the hopper?
What's coming up next?

3288
03:52:59,401 --> 03:53:02,726
Well, so we're going to have the election.
Yeah.

3289
03:53:02,726 --> 03:53:05,844
And then we'll have the special call
meeting.

3290
03:53:05,844 --> 03:53:09,654
Then I've got to wait till the election
gets certified.

3291
03:53:09,654 --> 03:53:15,058
And it usually is done like Friday before
the Tuesday of that— of our meeting.

3292
03:53:15,058 --> 03:53:20,669
But we can't swear them in until we get
that certification back from the Election

3293
03:53:20,669 --> 03:53:22,817
Commission. But they, they, uh,

3294
03:53:22,817 --> 03:53:27,389
they usually set up a meeting on a
Thursday before the last month,

3295
03:53:27,389 --> 03:53:30,230
so we'll get the certification on Friday,

3296
03:53:30,230 --> 03:53:34,525
and then we'll be ready to swear in the
new people on Tuesday.

3297
03:53:34,525 --> 03:53:36,536
Okay. Mm-hmm.

3298
03:53:36,536 --> 03:53:38,076
And then after that,

3299
03:53:38,076 --> 03:53:43,236
I don't have anything pressing to bring
before the board in August.

3300
03:53:43,236 --> 03:53:49,704
All, you know, we've been concentrating on
getting this second reading for the 19th.

3301
03:53:49,704 --> 03:53:54,787
So, but on the 19th, we are having that
special call meeting at 1,

3302
03:53:54,787 --> 03:53:57,482
and we're having our workshop at 2.

3303
03:53:57,482 --> 03:54:00,893
Right. Right.

3304
03:54:00,893 --> 03:54:04,148
And there's not much of an agenda on that.

3305
03:54:04,148 --> 03:54:06,861
Partly, not because I've been lazy,

3306
03:54:06,861 --> 03:54:13,140
basically why we don't have anything is
because we've been closing out these ARPA

3307
03:54:13,140 --> 03:54:15,465
accounts and getting all this,

3308
03:54:15,465 --> 03:54:21,588
all the budget closed out and making sure
we have all that done and getting all

3309
03:54:21,588 --> 03:54:24,378
these submissions made through TDEC.

3310
03:54:24,378 --> 03:54:28,719
So that's where all my That's where our
energy has been.

3311
03:54:28,719 --> 03:54:34,885
Okay. Okay. I had another question there
about along those lines here,

3312
03:54:34,885 --> 03:54:39,113
but I've forgotten it, so probably just as
well.

3313
03:54:39,113 --> 03:54:46,337
So let's move on to the next item here,
which is requests for future agenda items,

3314
03:54:46,337 --> 03:54:50,829
which I think we've sort of— I know, I
know, maybe—

3315
03:54:50,829 --> 03:54:54,474
Mr. Price just wants to Load you up with
work.

3316
03:54:54,474 --> 03:54:58,278
He didn't bring the whole list, just the
top 10.

3317
03:54:58,278 --> 03:55:04,673
Right. Okay. We got to find a new job for
him.

3318
03:55:06,196 --> 03:55:11,208
And surely there's a vacancy in the BZA,
the Planning Commission.

3319
03:55:11,208 --> 03:55:17,301
Think of the experience the man has. Hey,
assistant city manager would be good.

3320
03:55:17,301 --> 03:55:20,925
Could use some help now. We don't pay
anything.

3321
03:55:20,925 --> 03:55:25,009
All right, this has already turned into a
4-hour meeting,

3322
03:55:25,009 --> 03:55:29,237
so can we— does anybody have any requests
for agenda items?

3323
03:55:29,237 --> 03:55:29,607
I do.

3324
03:55:29,607 --> 03:55:30,410
Okay.

3325
03:55:30,410 --> 03:55:35,433
I think this one, at least according to
the city attorney,

3326
03:55:35,433 --> 03:55:40,803
has already been discussed and worked on,
but for the wording,

3327
03:55:40,803 --> 03:55:47,038
accessory structures must be behind the
sidelines of the main structure.

3328
03:55:47,038 --> 03:55:53,274
We've thought we've gotten that in the
last 2 amendments and we haven't,

3329
03:55:53,274 --> 03:55:55,439
you know. Madam Recorder,

3330
03:55:55,439 --> 03:56:01,415
didn't we work on that in a meeting in
here a couple of meetings ago?

3331
03:56:01,415 --> 03:56:03,320
We worked on a change.

3332
03:56:03,320 --> 03:56:05,260
I remember, but that was for the fence.

3333
03:56:05,260 --> 03:56:07,847
Well, that was for this ordinance though,
wasn't it?

3334
03:56:10,731 --> 03:56:11,834
No, no, I didn't think so.

3335
03:56:11,834 --> 03:56:13,180
Well, it's one thing we've got to—

3336
03:56:13,180 --> 03:56:19,011
No, I think it was for something else.
Okay, well, we need to get that.

3337
03:56:19,011 --> 03:56:22,214
If we don't have it, we need to get it.

3338
03:56:22,214 --> 03:56:26,485
So the accessories are behind the primary
structure.

3339
03:56:26,485 --> 03:56:29,113
Sidelines of the main structure.

3340
03:56:29,113 --> 03:56:29,467
Right.

3341
03:56:29,467 --> 03:56:31,109
Sidelines of the main structure.

3342
03:56:31,109 --> 03:56:34,392
And I thought it came up in discussing
what's happening Over on—

3343
03:56:34,392 --> 03:56:40,094
Yeah, Robertson Academy. Yeah, yeah, may
have, but we still need to pass it.

3344
03:56:40,094 --> 03:56:43,395
We didn't— we haven't done anything with
it.

3345
03:56:43,395 --> 03:56:47,521
I think that's what you're raising, is
that we haven't.

3346
03:56:47,521 --> 03:56:54,508
And then also that accessory structures
must be built simultaneously with the main

3347
03:56:54,508 --> 03:56:57,746
structure or after the main structure.

3348
03:56:57,746 --> 03:57:04,306
And then clarify That a driveway with a
basketball court on it is not a sport

3349
03:57:04,306 --> 03:57:04,818
basketball court on it is not a sport
court.

3350
03:57:04,818 --> 03:57:08,737
It's a driveway with a basketball court on
it.

3351
03:57:11,116 --> 03:57:13,030
And, um, that's all.

3352
03:57:13,030 --> 03:57:16,667
Yeah, we need to bring that before us.

3353
03:57:16,667 --> 03:57:19,826
Um, you remember that discussion?

3354
03:57:19,826 --> 03:57:20,953
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

3355
03:57:20,953 --> 03:57:24,108
And we definitely need both of those, both
of those elements.

3356
03:57:24,414 --> 03:57:28,267
Well, I knew that it's the way I
compartmentalize things.

3357
03:57:28,267 --> 03:57:33,336
I knew we couldn't do anything about it
with this one because it's too far.

3358
03:57:33,336 --> 03:57:34,485
This was a fence.

3359
03:57:34,485 --> 03:57:35,084
Right.

3360
03:57:35,084 --> 03:57:41,725
And that was a bridge too far for now. So
I knew we were going to do it later.

3361
03:57:41,725 --> 03:57:48,793
But yeah, I'm familiar with all of those
discussions because that whole sport court

3362
03:57:48,793 --> 03:57:53,476
pool and that whole paragraph's got to be
restructured.

3363
03:57:53,476 --> 03:58:00,458
And the accessory setback lines have got
to be clarified for those— any structure,

3364
03:58:00,458 --> 03:58:04,119
any accessory behind the house. But
that's—

3365
03:58:04,119 --> 03:58:07,606
And the order of construction, I think
that's really important too.

3366
03:58:07,606 --> 03:58:11,665
I've got a question on that the other day
going back to this Robertson Academy

3367
03:58:11,665 --> 03:58:11,977
thing.

3368
03:58:11,977 --> 03:58:16,374
That whole Robertson Academy thing.

3369
03:58:16,374 --> 03:58:22,026
So if, you know, the plan was that they
would

3370
03:58:22,026 --> 03:58:28,307
bring their plan back in a day or so and
have that

3371
03:58:28,307 --> 03:58:30,317
house plan done.

3372
03:58:30,317 --> 03:58:31,219
Yeah.

3373
03:58:31,219 --> 03:58:33,834
It was all in the same conversation.

3374
03:58:33,834 --> 03:58:39,501
They just never got to getting that demo
plan and all the other plans in here.

3375
03:58:39,501 --> 03:58:44,586
So kind of blame that on the individual,
but we should have, you know,

3376
03:58:44,586 --> 03:58:50,471
kind of fell through the cracks because
that was in between Steve leaving and the

3377
03:58:50,471 --> 03:58:52,142
other people coming in.

3378
03:58:52,142 --> 03:58:55,629
And we didn't, you know, he didn't keep
records,

3379
03:58:55,629 --> 03:58:58,826
so we didn't know what the conversation
was.

3380
03:58:58,826 --> 03:59:03,112
Well, Jeff had said he was supposed to
come in like a week.

3381
03:59:03,112 --> 03:59:07,544
He was due to come in with the plans for
the house next week.

3382
03:59:07,544 --> 03:59:09,723
And that was 3 weeks ago or 4?

3383
03:59:09,723 --> 03:59:10,895
I thought it was the next day.

3384
03:59:10,895 --> 03:59:14,802
That's happened. He brought the plans in
for the house.

3385
03:59:14,802 --> 03:59:20,130
They've been back in with plans. They got
permits and all that. Okay, good.

3386
03:59:20,130 --> 03:59:25,244
He's talking about the original. I'm
talking about the original. Gotcha,

3387
03:59:25,244 --> 03:59:25,742
talking about the original. Gotcha,
gotcha.

3388
03:59:25,742 --> 03:59:31,567
So there was— the whole conversation was
about simultaneously building pool house,

3389
03:59:31,567 --> 03:59:34,195
garage, and building all at one time.

3390
03:59:34,195 --> 03:59:40,020
But Snow let them start that garage with
the idea they were bringing their plan in

3391
03:59:40,020 --> 03:59:44,637
because they showed him a plan. They just
didn't give him a plan.

3392
03:59:44,637 --> 03:59:47,905
And that's kind of the way he works
sometimes.

3393
03:59:47,905 --> 03:59:51,022
Gotcha.

3394
03:59:51,022 --> 03:59:52,919
Which I don't agree with.

3395
03:59:52,919 --> 03:59:55,487
Okay.

3396
03:59:58,487 --> 03:59:59,438
All right, so that was—

3397
03:59:59,550 --> 04:00:05,906
that's good, David. Thank you for keeping
up with that. That's very important.

3398
04:00:05,906 --> 04:00:10,225
Um, and so then the next, uh, item is
board comments.

3399
04:00:10,225 --> 04:00:14,952
Um, and so Commissioner DeMarco, do you
have any comments?

3400
04:00:14,952 --> 04:00:19,271
Um, have we done the city manager
evaluation yet? No.

3401
04:00:19,271 --> 04:00:21,728
Okay, and that's on you. Is that in your
court?

3402
04:00:21,728 --> 04:00:27,571
My court. Okay, it's due Okay.

3403
04:00:27,571 --> 04:00:27,877
That's all.

3404
04:00:27,877 --> 04:00:32,531
I may lose the election and then you would
just be stuck without one, I guess.

3405
04:00:32,531 --> 04:00:37,923
No, you won't, because the, the, the bonus
is already in the budget.

3406
04:00:37,923 --> 04:00:43,474
And if I don't hear anything, I guess I
just assume that the budget's—

3407
04:00:43,474 --> 04:00:48,390
that the bonus is maxed out and we'll go
ahead and pay it out.

3408
04:00:48,390 --> 04:00:53,670
Budget bonus by default. I like that. I
thought you would.

3409
04:00:56,670 --> 04:01:00,344
All right, uh, Commissioner Price, do you
have any comments?

3410
04:01:00,344 --> 04:01:02,855
No parting comments or shots or anything?

3411
04:01:02,855 --> 04:01:05,531
I'm honored to serve you today. We're
honored to have had you.

3412
04:01:05,531 --> 04:01:06,826
We got one more meeting to go.

3413
04:01:06,826 --> 04:01:07,246
Okay.

3414
04:01:07,246 --> 04:01:14,116
Man, we have really enjoyed Scott. We hate
to see you go. He did his duty.

3415
04:01:14,116 --> 04:01:19,315
But hey, thing is The city manager knows
where you live.

3416
04:01:19,315 --> 04:01:22,100
And if I need you, I'm coming.

3417
04:01:22,100 --> 04:01:26,131
All right. Vice Mayor Evans?

3418
04:01:26,131 --> 04:01:26,260
None.

3419
04:01:26,260 --> 04:01:30,282
Have anything? Okay. Well, I don't have
anything either.

3420
04:01:30,282 --> 04:01:36,029
So with that, except I guess I failed to
say when all the people were leaving at

3421
04:01:36,029 --> 04:01:36,244
say when all the people were leaving at
the

3422
04:01:36,244 --> 04:01:41,775
end of our discussion of the fence
ordinance that I really appreciated all of

3423
04:01:41,775 --> 04:01:42,063
ordinance that I really appreciated all of
them

3424
04:01:42,063 --> 04:01:46,301
coming and making their comments, and it
helps the process,

3425
04:01:46,301 --> 04:01:50,754
and we're glad they came and filled our
room for a change. So—

3426
04:01:50,754 --> 04:01:53,339
And most were polite and respectful.

3427
04:01:53,339 --> 04:02:06,398
Yes, they were. So thank you very much,
and we are hereby adjourned.

3428
04:02:09,398 --> 04:02:16,295
I'm glad I didn't bet on how long this
meeting would last because I would have

3429
04:02:16,295 --> 04:02:16,737
meeting would last because I would have
lost.

3430
04:02:16,737 --> 04:02:22,837
How long do you think it lasts? I said 2
and a half hours. Oh really?

3431
04:02:22,837 --> 04:02:29,380
What's that thing they're advertising? Did
he? Is that what he said? Yeah.

3432
04:02:29,380 --> 04:02:33,359
I don't know. Oh, I'm gonna hit the
restroom.

3433
04:02:33,455 --> 04:02:36,500
Yeah, I'll be right back. I've never been—

3434
04:02:36,500 --> 04:02:38,920
well, I didn't catch that.

3435
04:02:38,920 --> 04:02:42,737
Didn't the guy, the first guy that spoke,

3436
04:02:42,737 --> 04:03:01,716
that was insulting us basically?

3437
04:03:15,675 --> 04:03:17,341
It looks like it was.