[0:00] Apologies, guys. Won't happen again.
[0:02] No problem.
[0:03] Do we want to wait or start?
[0:05] I think we start.
[0:05] Okay.
[0:06] Yeah, I think we start.
[0:07] All right. It is 8:44.
[0:08] We're ready to go. Okay. We're ready to
go. Okay.
[0:11] 8:44.
[0:12] Entirely my fault.
[0:16] No, no, no worries.
[0:17] Um, calling the meeting to order at 8:44.
[0:21] I think we'll start with the minutes.
[0:25] Oh no, first let's Um, Grace Bennett,
Chair.
[0:29] Erik Milam, not Chair.
[0:32] And Steve Collie, City Manager. Great.
[0:35] Um, all right, I've not reviewed the
minutes.
[0:37] We can do that now and see if we have any
changes.
[0:39] Uh, it was a pretty, uh, open discussion.
[0:42] Uh, we didn't really have much, uh,
[0:46] much going on at that last meeting.
[0:51] Okay.
[0:53] There are no changes. Do I have a motion?
[0:56] Motion.
[0:58] Second? Second?
[1:01] I can second it. You can second it.
[1:02] Yeah.
[1:03] All in favor? Aye.
[1:04] All right. Uh, 2 and, uh, 0. So passed.
Okay.
[1:11] We have signed copies for you later. Okay.
[1:15] Did you guys both sign it?
[1:17] Yes, we did.
[1:17] Okay, excellent.
[1:19] Okay. So we can move on then with our
agenda.
[1:24] I just am walking it on,
[1:27] but you'll see here the template review of
the investments.
[1:33] I mean, I think my big takeaway is the
yield has gone up a
[1:40] little bit, or stayed about the same
actually.
[1:45] Yeah.
[1:46] The duration has ticked up slightly.
[1:49] I think before we jump into numbers and
like where the budget is,
[1:54] I know there's a lot of storm stuff.
[1:57] The as far as like duration and yield,
[2:00] I know we've been trying to go out a
little bit further.
[2:04] I don't know if we would have that
recommendation for stone is just to
[2:10] recommendation for stone is just to
continue to
[2:11] try to take it out a bit. It's nice to be
able to see.
[2:15] You know, since March of '25, that average
duration was less than a year and a half.
[2:22] So we've certainly increased it.
[2:24] Yeah.
[2:26] I would be curious, like, what you all are
doing and if there's—
[2:31] Yeah, no, I mean, it's— well, I mean, I
would agree with you.
[2:38] I mean, I was expecting to agree with you.
I think we— Sort of.
[2:46] We're not in the business of forecasting
what the Fed is going
[2:53] to do, but I mean, all sign.
[2:57] I mean, on a lot of levels,
[3:00] extending duration makes a lot of sense,
[3:04] and it's it's likely the best decision to
increase the yield
[3:12] within the parameters of our.
[3:15] Increase duration some that we can and not
get outside the—
[3:22] our guidelines of what,
[3:25] what the city needs in terms of the money.
[3:30] Yeah.
[3:30] So just to recap, kind of, you said
there's a lot of storm stuff.
[3:37] So, I mean, are we Needing to beef up our
emergency fund above
[3:44] target, kind of, is the— to put a personal
spin on it, like,
[3:50] like LGIP, are our targets still adequate
given the current situation
[3:58] with the city?
[3:59] Yeah, what I guess it would be helpful
What are the expected—
[4:05] so the last time we had kind of expected
expenditures,
[4:10] $3 million.
[4:11] Uh, you know what, then we have the
additional liquidity.
[4:16] My—
[4:16] this air conditioner is right in my ear
and I cannot hear you because
[4:22] it's kind of muffled.
[4:24] So, um, so here's, uh, you're talking
about the duration.
[4:29] Um, what happened there was we had those
long, uh, low-interest, uh,
[4:35] Treasury notes and all that, that fine,
and CDs that finally came due.
[4:41] Yeah.
[4:41] So if you'll— if you can go back and
you'll notice that most everything we have
[4:48] you'll notice that most everything we have
in
[4:48] there, we've gotten rid of that
1-point-nothing percentages except for one
[4:53] 1-point-nothing percentages except for one
Treasury
[4:54] note in there that's going to come Come
due soon.
[4:58] But, um, there's, um, um, that's, uh, how
that duration had gotten improved.
[5:04] And we'll be able to do that as we go
along.
[5:07] Sure.
[5:08] But, um, the, um, one thing that I don't
know if I had shared with you all,
[5:14] and I meant to do it at this meeting, but
I will send you—
[5:19] the board did a fund balance policy, uh,
[5:22] based on the request from the
comptroller's office. Because we didn't
[5:28] comptroller's office. Because we didn't
have one.
[5:29] And normally they ask—
[5:30] the comptroller has suggested somewhere
between 25% and 30% of your current budget
[5:37] in fund balance. And our board wanted 50%,
like we've always talked about.
[5:43] And is that what would be considered LGIP?
Is that fund balance?
[5:48] That would just be— all of it really is
fund balance.
[5:53] Everything that we have in reserve is
considered fund balance.
[5:59] So we have plenty of, we have plenty of
room there to be over that,
[6:05] meet that 50% of budget.
[6:07] So I will send you guys a copy of that
after the meeting.
[6:13] So you'll have that for your file. Okay.
[6:17] Okay. Well, and I guess looking at the
vehicles, like the holdings now,
[6:22] there isn't anything that's going to come
due until May of next year.
[6:27] Right.
[6:28] So we'll just see that duration tick down
slowly over time.
[6:33] I guess if, if slash when more money comes
into Stone,
[6:37] then the ask would be that it gets on the
furthest end.
[6:43] So, um, I don't want to digress on your
report,
[6:47] but just about pointing out this, um, this
report that I sent you all on the,
[6:54] um, on the winter storm, um,
reimbursement.
[6:58] Um, our total spend, as you can see, was
$3.5 million,
[7:03] and what we have requested for our
reimbursement portion that we think we
[7:10] should get back would be $2.6 million.
[7:13] So our estimated out-of-pocket after we
get our—
[7:18] we file at TEMA would be around $442,000.
[7:21] So that is really, if all this falls in
place and works like it should, I mean,
[7:29] that's really dodging a bullet for our—
[7:32] Yeah.
[7:34] Our $2.6 million that we actually spent
that we don't— that we'll get back.
[7:39] So, uh, when that comes back in,
[7:42] we'll just roll that back into Stone for a
treasury note or CD,
[7:46] whatever looks best at the time.
[7:49] And, uh, and then keep the LGIP at around
1.5.
[7:52] Yeah. Keep the LGIP right. Kind of where
it is.
[7:55] Okay.
[7:56] Um, I think that's, that was kind of our
goal to get the LGIP there.
[8:01] Mm-hmm.
[8:01] And how we spent money to pay for the
storm cleanup just kind of worked out that
[8:08] way. So I'm pretty encouraged by us
getting the money back.
[8:13] Just this morning, we got all of the last
part of the last million submitted to
[8:19] FEMA. So it's all submitted, and they're
reviewing it now,
[8:24] and we just have to sit back and see if
they cut a check.
[8:28] But I would I will say on the TDEC grant,
if you all recall,
[8:33] the TDEC grant was $738,000,
[8:35] and we've received all of our
reimbursement back from that.
[8:40] Oh, great.
[8:41] So it sort of went back into the checking
account because we were
[8:45] just paying out of checking like crazy
when we were doing cleanup.
[8:50] So is there anything outstanding?
[8:52] There's no outstanding bills at point to
cover Fern?
[8:55] No, everything that— everything that—
everything else from Fern has been paid
[9:02] everything else from Fern has been paid
off.
[9:02] So we don't need additional liquidity?
[9:04] No, no. So that's, that's done.
[9:06] So, you know, the thing is, I mean, we
always talk about this rainy day fund,
[9:11] and it's a good thing we had it, because
if we hadn't had it,
[9:15] we would have had to go borrow money to do
that.
[9:18] Right, half a million dollars.
[9:20] Yeah. Is that— is that—
[9:22] John, I think he's coming in.
[9:24] So, is there—
[9:32] so it seems like LGIP is where it needs to
be. So our direction to—
[9:39] Morning.
[9:42] Morning, John.
[9:43] I apologize.
[9:47] Looks like we've got— let's see, what's
coming due? I'm trying to find—
[9:52] Not until '27. So that's where once the—
basically,
[9:56] I think the short of it is I don't know
what the timing is on the $2.6 million to
[10:02] get reimbursed, but that would flow back
into Stone.
[10:05] And I think our ask is then that it's on
the higher end of the duration allowed.
[10:11] Yeah, right. Yeah.
[10:16] Do you have any idea when the funds might
come in?
[10:19] Well, we had submitted this in categories,
[10:24] so we had about $1 million in one category
that will come
[10:30] back, and then the rest of it will come
back in another
[10:37] category. I got a feeling it'll,
[10:41] it'll kind of slow back in and increment.
[10:46] You mean they're not in a rush to give you
all the money?
[10:48] No, they're not in a rush.
[10:48] Wow, that's so surprising.
[10:50] Um, but I will say this, you know, and
I've always had, you know, real, uh,
[10:56] I don't know, I don't want to say be too
harsh,
[11:00] but I've always worried with FEMA because
they work really hard to find ways to just
[11:07] credit your, your reports. But they, they
worked with us really well.
[11:13] They, they checked back with us, reviewed
the reports.
[11:18] I mean, it was a huge undertaking,
[11:21] and Desiree has done a terrific job in
keeping up with that.
[11:26] But, um, so we finally did get it all, uh,
dumped in, uh, last, last part today,
[11:32] this morning, just as you guys were coming
in. We were finishing that up.
[11:39] So that's great. So I'm guessing it's
going to be minimum 60 days, probably.
[11:45] I would say maybe by Christmas, maybe by
the first of the year, who knows.
[11:51] And who knows where rates are.
[11:54] I mean, today, you know, there's still a
premium to go out to 4 years.
[11:59] I think the 3 years, 4.5, 5 years, 4 So
yeah,
[12:03] I think that would be our direction to
Preston.
[12:07] Yeah, because I mean, 1.8 at Stone is not—
[12:13] I'd like to push it out.
[12:16] It seems like a good time to do that.
[12:21] And then you've got a lot of things coming
due,
[12:28] let's see, in 2027. We've got, um, the
only— well,
[12:35] we've got about, um, right at about a
million.
[12:41] Yeah, $1.075 million.
[12:43] So, you know, and then we can see if the
city needs it or
[12:49] extend it further. Um,
[12:52] do we need to pull the $66,000 in cash and
stone We just let
[12:59] that sit or we want to pull that in LGIP?
[13:04] I think we could do either or.
[13:06] If Stone has a good product right now, we
could just move that over.
[13:12] I don't really think— the thing is right
now,
[13:15] because our grants have been worked out,
we've paid all of our bills.
[13:21] They're complete. I'm not looking at
needing a big influx of cash right now.
[13:27] So I think, I think it's better to get it
into stone because I don't really need the
[13:34] liquidity. And we've got $1.4 million— was
it $1.4 million in there now?
[13:40] Yeah, I think that's plenty.
[13:42] And treasuries are liquid anyway.
[13:45] So worse come to worse, it'd be very easy
to liquidate that without much friction.
[13:52] Are we telling them to put that,
[13:55] put that $66,000 into something?
[13:58] It's such a small amount.
[14:01] Yeah, they have it.
[14:03] But I think, I think I would— I'd like to
make a suggestion to the,
[14:09] to the investment committee,
[14:12] is that sometime between maybe 4 Maybe
before or after our next meeting,
[14:18] though we're already September.
[14:21] Maybe January, because December is a no
meeting month.
[14:26] Maybe January or February we have a
meeting, and then you all come to the—
[14:33] come to either one of the workshops,
[14:36] and let's talk about the thing that John's
always talking about.
[14:42] Is let's, let's, let's push the board to
designate a fund for capital investment,
[14:49] capital projects, CIPs, because if, if
they don't get—
[14:54] if they don't get nudged to do it, I'm
having a hard time nudging them.
[15:00] And, and I'm saying this on tape because I
don't care if they hear it.
[15:07] Okay. I think that would be really
important.
[15:09] I think we I think we need to nudge them
to be able to take—
[15:14] because we've got crumbling
infrastructure.
[15:19] And that— when we started talking about
infrastructure 4 years ago,
[15:25] we did a study. And the study came back
and said— Was that Kim Owens?
[15:32] No, that was Barge Wagner did the study.
[15:35] And they said you've got $17 million of
infrastructure that needs to be taken
[15:43] care of. Well, we spent $2 million and
really just didn't make a dent.
[15:50] I mean, they were good projects and they
will last a long time,
[15:56] but it's not enough.
[15:58] And so we just need to get this capital We
need to be able to put some of this
[16:05] or designate it some way in a capital fund
that we say,
[16:10] instead of just saying all of this is in
reserve,
[16:15] we need to say capital project reserve and
let it build on its own and add to it
[16:23] as we go.
[16:24] How can that— are there different
stipulations on how that can be invested?
[16:28] Or is it the same limit?
[16:29] No, same limits.
[16:30] So the advantage would be just to
bifurcate it and have a dedicated fund.
[16:37] Exactly.
[16:37] More intentional.
[16:39] From an accounting standpoint, the board
can do it—
[16:43] I guess you'd call it internal
restriction, but it's not really
[16:47] restriction, but it's not really
restricted,
[16:48] it's just designated.
[16:49] Yeah, it's designated. That's right.
[16:52] Formally, the board could pass a
resolution if they
[16:57] wanted to go that formal and resolve that
this is to be
[17:03] put into this fund and then they could
reverse that
[17:08] anytime.
[17:09] Yeah.
[17:09] But on the— one of my biggest fears for
some of the nonprofits plus others,
[17:14] you know, you've got uses for But then
some people pick up your balance sheet and
[17:20] see, well, you've got $12 million.
[17:23] Yeah, right.
[17:23] Investments. So why do I need to— why do
you need more?
[17:26] Why do you need contributions?
[17:28] And, you know, I think a good number would
be whatever the amount of money that
[17:33] comes back from FEMA that we get
reimbursed.
[17:36] I think that would be a good number to put
in.
[17:39] That small?
[17:39] Yeah. And then build on it, you know.
[17:42] But how do you— so I've got a question.
[17:46] So how do you build on it?
[17:48] And also, like, if you think about it
with—
[17:52] Well, I guess what I'm thinking about,
Erik,
[17:56] is as we see our investments come to
maturity and they— and when we roll them
[18:02] maturity and they— and when we roll them
over,
[18:02] we roll them over into that capital
project account.
[18:06] Not that we're— because I've got I've got
2 capital projects on the budget right now
[18:13] for this upcoming year, the year— this
fiscal year we're in now.
[18:18] Uh, one is about $150,000, $160,000, and
the other one's about $290,000.
[18:24] And I'm probably going to need an extra
$50,000 to $100,000 on both of those.
[18:30] Uh-huh.
[18:31] Uh, once we get them, um, off, off the
drawing board and in into bid.
[18:37] But as we see these things, that's what
I'm talking about building on.
[18:43] And so when some of these come due,
[18:46] then when they roll over or we reinvest
them,
[18:50] we identify them at that time as capital
project. Sure.
[18:55] Like, I think what my concern is, I
understand it.
[19:01] I think we should do a capital project
fund,
[19:05] it's $17 million 4 years ago.
[19:08] Right.
[19:09] What's that cost now? Double?
[19:12] At least. At least.
[19:13] So, yeah, I think, like,
[19:15] the concern I have is that our investment
return isn't going to keep up with the
[19:21] inflation of these projects.
[19:23] So, like, at some point, the board's got
to decide Like, you know, it's a balance,
[19:29] right? And I'm glad I don't have your job,
but like, good Lord.
[19:34] I mean, it seems like we've just got a
ticking time bomb if we don't—
[19:39] Yeah.
[19:40] Start to really attack it.
[19:41] And then the other question is, where are
we going to get the extra, you know,
[19:47] dollars we need? But anyway, that's— I
mean,
[19:50] I guess this is a long-term problem we've
got to fix over the long term.
[19:57] Well, we have limited revenue sources.
[20:00] Yep.
[20:00] And so what I'm working on that I have
been working on for a couple of years now
[20:06] been working on for a couple of years now
is
[20:06] trying to see if we can increase— I mean,
[20:09] we are doing really well with our permit
and our codes department.
[20:14] We're bringing in about a million, a
little less than a million dollars a year.
[20:20] Has that improved?
[20:22] The run rate on that, is that improving?
[20:24] Yeah, it is improving.
[20:25] But we could take on the MEP, the
mechanical, electrical, plumbing.
[20:31] And so we're doing some research now with
Metro to see what they're taking in and
[20:37] what the numbers are.
[20:38] But that would mean that we've got to hire
an inspector, hire another office person.
[20:45] And maybe— and have some larger office
space.
[20:48] So let's say we could bring in another
million dollars,
[20:52] but we're going to spend $300,000 under,
you know, with overhead because we've got,
[20:59] you know, everything, you know, you know,
one person,
[21:03] you think one or two persons is not going
to be a lot in salary, but you got—
[21:08] Benefits.
[21:09] Insurance, office space, vehicle, all the
things that go along with it.
[21:15] But still, if we could net out $500,000 or
$600,000 a year in additional revenue,
[21:21] that would be huge for us.
[21:23] Mm-hmm.
[21:24] So I think that's a, uh, you know, that's
something that I've got, uh,
[21:29] our coach department working on. We're at—
we talk about it every day.
[21:35] And so we're getting very close to having
some good hard numbers to throw out there
[21:40] and, I floated this to the board and
they're, you know, they're like,
[21:45] they've got to put their lawyer heads
together on it.
[21:49] But, you know, but we've just got to keep
hammering it.
[21:53] And the only thing that's going to make
this work are the numbers.
[21:58] If the math works, we can make the rest of
it work.
[22:02] So, A couple of questions.
[22:04] One is, you were proposing,
[22:07] or maybe the state did come up with some
definitions of these
[22:13] different funds. As I recall,
[22:16] you were working on that a few months ago.
[22:21] I mentioned to the other 2 before you came
in that we did pass a resolution for a
[22:27] Fund balance policy, and it identified
those different types of funds—
[22:33] those different types of funds—
restricted,
[22:33] unrestricted, unused fund balance, and all
that.
[22:37] And that was based on a suggestion, not a
rule, but a suggestion by the comptroller.
[22:44] And I will send you all a copy of that so
you'll have that.
[22:48] That's just set up the terminology, but
you didn't make any—
[22:53] did you make any allocations?
[22:55] No, we didn't make any allocations.
[22:57] It's just a policy of how we operate and
handle our fund balance so that it'll just
[23:04] put some more guardrails around it so
that, you know,
[23:08] people don't come in and start deciding
they want to give the money away.
[23:14] Well, most of the entities that are
capital intensive,
[23:19] like hospitals and others, not for profit,
[23:23] They do set these funds up with a board
resolution, usually based on,
[23:29] you know, if you have a plan like you
said, or an engineering study,
[23:36] or a capital project, it's easier to say,
okay, that's $17 million.
[23:42] This—
[23:43] you've got this building and this project,
[23:46] and the architects have estimated $15
million, and they will move that.
[23:50] They would pass a Board resolution and
then move $15 million into this board or
[23:55] building fund.
[23:56] Right.
[23:57] And then, then as that gets spent down or
changed, you can, you can designate it,
[24:02] undesignate it, but it gives you some—
well, it gives you discipline,
[24:06] budgetary discipline.
[24:07] Yeah.
[24:07] But I mean, the thing that I would like
you all to see is, is—
[24:11] and I think there's members of the board
that are concerned about Putting an
[24:17] estimate out there, but that's what
accounting is.
[24:20] Just go out and do your projection. And,
some things are more solid than others.
[24:26] You know, that you might have this project
for sure,
[24:29] and you have an architect study, and
that's what it is.
[24:33] And then, others are, you know, that in
the past,
[24:37] there's what it costs to replace them.
[24:39] So, I mean, you could—
[24:40] It doesn't It could be redesignated. It's
not externally restricted.
[24:45] So when your auditor— when the auditors
come in, they—
[24:49] as long as they have a resolution, they
could come in and on your fund balance,
[24:54] instead of showing that you have $15
million undesignated fund balance,
[24:59] they can bifurcate that and say—
[25:01] Right.
[25:02] Here's the different levels.
[25:04] And a lot of companies will put in this
emergency fund of like
[25:08] 4 months of operating expenses.
[25:10] Yeah.
[25:10] And they'll, they'll kind of segregate
those out.
[25:13] And, and that, uh, that new policy, uh,
[25:17] stated that for 50% of our, um,
[25:21] of our operating budget will be held for
reserves for that.
[25:27] So you do need me to allocate,
[25:30] and I physically go ahead and Do that for
at least whatever
[25:36] was set up for the policy?
[25:38] Yes.
[25:39] You should designate, or at least on the
financials have that designated then.
[25:46] 50% would be the emergency fund?
[25:48] Or like if there's 3 different buckets,
emergency fund, operating,
[25:51] and capital projects, is that what you're
suggesting?
[25:53] Yes.
[25:54] So 50% has to be held in emergency or
between—
[25:57] For operations. Yeah. So we haven't talked
about emergency funds.
[26:02] I think the way the board looks at it
right now,
[26:06] that everything that's in investments is
emergency funds.
[26:11] And maybe the distinction really could be
you need 50% of the budget between
[26:17] operating and emergency,
[26:19] but a certain amount of that 50% needs to
be shorter term.
[26:25] Yeah, right.
[26:26] Yeah.
[26:30] And, and, and our budget for this fiscal
year is
[26:36] just over $3 million,
[26:38] and we've got very close to $150,000 in
LGIP,
[26:43] so that sort of takes care of that.
[26:47] $1.5 million.
[26:49] Yeah.
[26:51] How much is in cash in the bank?
[26:53] Uh, I think about $1.3 million, something
like that, last time I looked.
[27:00] So LGIP has $1.5 million,
[27:03] but in a bank account we've got $1.3
[27:07] million.
[27:09] Okay.
[27:11] Are we at all— is that Like the expenses
and
[27:15] everything, is that about the right
number?
[27:19] Yeah, yeah.
[27:20] Is that just a check?
[27:23] Because we— see, we, um, we start having,
uh,
[27:27] expenditures before we get revenues.
[27:30] See, our revenues like state sales tax and
sales—
[27:35] local option and sales tax, it comes in by
the month.
[27:40] So we don't get all of our $500,000 at one
time.
[27:45] It just trickles in by the month.
[27:48] Mm-hmm.
[27:48] Same way with street aid.
[27:51] Metro aid, the Metro street aid comes in
at one lump sum,
[27:56] but it doesn't come in until late in the
year.
[28:00] We won't see it until August of next
summer.
[28:04] So you see, It just takes— it's a shell
game.
[28:09] It's kind of— you just got to— it's
kitchen table math.
[28:14] You've got to see, do we have the money to
pay for this now,
[28:20] or we've got to wait for the state money
to come in?
[28:25] Say, on this permit revenue,
[28:28] which is part of the When you do the
annual budget,
[28:33] how do you set that revenue number?
[28:37] Is there a calculation of that, or do you
just kind of say, okay,
[28:44] the last 3 years we've had—
[28:47] We look at that, and we look at the open
permits,
[28:51] and then we usually set that number We
look at that number,
[28:56] that revenue number, at probably 60 or 70%
of what we usually take in.
[29:02] We lowball that number as a revenue number
because it, I mean,
[29:08] it could drop out. I don't think it will
in Oak Hill, but it could drop.
[29:14] How big a lag time is—
[29:16] I've always asked the question of it would
be nice to see some volume numbers.
[29:22] Numbers like the number of permits or
something that gives you an indication of
[29:29] something that gives you an indication of
the
[29:29] volume?
[29:30] So I did— I haven't updated it, but I did
this a while ago because I was curious.
[29:36] I did it through '23, the number of
permits and the percent change.
[29:42] So I could do '24 and '25 on here and
start to see,
[29:46] but you get an idea of like It kind of
goes up steadily.
[29:50] Like, for instance, we started in 2010,
there's 110,000 permits, right?
[29:56] Yeah.
[29:56] And kind of keeps creeping up until about
2019,
[30:01] 488,000, and then it jumps to 868,000, 1
million.
[30:06] 2022, you'd expect to be a little lower,
550,000.
[30:11] 2023, 857,000.
[30:12] Well—
[30:13] Like, to your point, to start to see
trends.
[30:15] Yeah.
[30:15] And understanding.
[30:16] And the thing is, you got to be careful
with just raw numbers because we
[30:23] have a lot of roofs, siding, kitchen
rehabs, things like that that are—
[30:31] is a number for a permit.
[30:33] But the ones we got to look at are our
rebills or our new bills,
[30:40] and those are, you know, Their value is
somewhere in the millions.
[30:46] Oh, and you know what I just realized too
is I did—
[30:50] that's the dollar amount that came in, not
the number.
[30:53] So that, to your point, could be
interesting to see breaking out between
[30:58] interesting to see breaking out between
the number.
[30:59] How big a lead time?
[31:00] So somebody comes in, and I guess I may be
getting this—
[31:05] may or may not be getting this right, I
may not be heading down—
[31:09] We're heading down a project. I just
didn't know if it's requiring a permit.
[31:15] But, how long a lead time?
[31:17] Does somebody come in here— I mean,
typically, if it's done right,
[31:22] somebody will come in and have a dialogue
with you and say, hey,
[31:27] we're considering this type of project,
and understand the ramifications of that.
[31:33] First of all, you know, is a permit
required, or is it— I mean,
[31:38] I guess whether there's a— this is viewed
to be a repair versus—
[31:43] Yeah, any project really, however small or
however large,
[31:47] is going to require a permit.
[31:49] And the permit cost is based on the value
of the project.
[31:54] So you have a project It's going to cost
$400.
[31:58] It's going to— it's going to— we're going
to bill you on $400.
[32:03] Or the next guy comes in, his project's $4
million,
[32:07] we're going to bill him on $4 million.
[32:10] Well, it's tough because I think if you
sent a questionnaire out and asked the
[32:15] sent a questionnaire out and asked the
board
[32:16] and others, okay, I have to replace my
roof,
[32:19] is that required a permit or is that
viewed to be a repair of—
[32:24] depending on if If it's a repair, like a
hailstorm comes and does some things,
[32:29] I think you'd have a diversion.
[32:32] I think there's just not knowledge out
there,
[32:35] or understanding of what requires a permit
from a repair standpoint, versus—
[32:41] it used to be. I'm not a codes guy, but—
[32:44] Yeah.
[32:44] So, if you have a hailstorm, and you
damage the roof,
[32:48] usually you have insurance Right, coverage
from that.
[32:51] Nowadays the deductible is huge on those,
yeah, those things.
[32:56] So, um, is there— sometimes there isn't a
requirement, is everything.
[33:01] So if you have to just repair the roof,
but one time I thought that that was—
[33:07] If it's just— if, if you, if you're having
a guy come over and, uh,
[33:11] take off some damaged shingles and just
put some on,
[33:14] you Probably don't have to have a permit.
[33:17] It just has to do with the scope of the
project,
[33:20] and the contractor would be able to tell
us that.
[33:23] But if it's a full roof replacement, yeah,
it's a permit.
[33:27] So are we thinking then at our next
meeting maybe making it kind of a mini
[33:33] meeting maybe making it kind of a mini
working
[33:33] session between our group and come with
the goal being that we come up with a
[33:39] recommendation on the buckets?
[33:41] Yeah. I think that's a good question.
[33:44] And I think we should try to have a
meeting before we go to the board and have
[33:50] meeting before we go to the board and have
our
[33:50] ducks in a row about what we want to do.
[33:54] And I think you just sort of laid it out
as operational and emergency and capital
[34:00] projects.
[34:01] Well, and I was thinking, I was iterating
on it further.
[34:04] I think if you have 3 projects, you've got
operation, operating,
[34:08] which includes emergency, And that is a
hard 50% of the budget.
[34:12] Then you have the reserve, and then you
have this capital projects.
[34:17] And it sounds like the latter, the capital
projects,
[34:20] would be an absolute dollar amount that
we'd start with,
[34:23] and then basically everything else then
would go into the reserve.
[34:27] Right.
[34:28] And I guess the question I would have is,
[34:30] how do we determine what's an appropriate
amount to start the capital projects with?
[34:35] To your point, it could be easy to just
say whatever is coming back from FEMA,
[34:40] say whatever is coming back from FEMA,
2.5,
[34:40] but is that really—
[34:41] Well, you know, we have a— we have this
$17 million, right, you know,
[34:49] project ahead of us.
[34:51] So any amount that we could put against
that would be—
[34:58] I think would be So my question is, why
not more?
[35:01] So $17 million is based on the study that
was done a few years ago?
[35:07] Yes, at least 3 years ago.
[35:09] From Barge? From Barge, yeah. And that
relates substantially to the road repair?
[35:15] No, it's mostly culverts and ditches and
stormwater.
[35:21] And the thing about that is They also did
a, um,
[35:27] in that report they did priority projects
and they did other
[35:34] ongoing projects like just cleaning
ditches and pulling
[35:40] ditches and cleaning out cleanouts.
[35:44] But priority projects, the, um, we did 1,
2, 3, 4, 5.
[35:51] 6.
[35:53] 5, maybe 6 of the 20 priority projects,
and we ran out of money.
[35:59] We ran out of the 2 ARPAs that we were
operating on.
[36:05] And those 2 ARPAs, the ARPA was $1.3
million that was just giveaway
[36:12] money, and And the city decided to put
that against stormwater.
[36:19] And then because ARPA had more money that
they brought back to the
[36:26] states, we could apply on a
non-competitive bid.
[36:31] And we, um, we, uh, qualified for
$730,000,
[36:36] but we had to pay 35% match, and that was
$285,000 of our money.
[36:43] Okay.
[36:44] So that was another million dollars for
the project.
[36:48] So we had $2.3 million to do those 6
projects.
[36:51] So, so unlike other municipal and
governmental entities, you're having—
[36:58] you're trying to have the discipline of
have the money,
[37:03] cash or investments, before I make versus
Going out and getting in debt.
[37:09] I mean, other people could pass some sort
of bond offering or whatever
[37:16] and get debt.
[37:17] Okay.
[37:17] So do you want to see that? Which is a
great philosophy if you can do that.
[37:23] Well, I've been in jurisdictions where
we've had bad situations where all the
[37:30] streets were bad or all All the buildings
were dilapidated and we went out and did
[37:38] an $8 million street paving project and we
borrowed the money and then we paid—
[37:45] Through a bond offering or something?
[37:48] Yeah, we got a very,
[37:50] very good price on a bond and we paid that
back with the state street aid that came
[37:57] in. So that serviced the debt.
[38:00] Now it would take, you know, 5, 6 years to
get that done,
[38:05] but still you get the advantage of local
day pricing and the advantage of getting
[38:12] all the streets done at one time.
[38:15] If you do it over 5, 6, 8, 10 years, by
the time you get to 10 years,
[38:22] it's going to be—
[38:23] You're redoing the old ones.
[38:24] Yeah, you're going to have to start— yeah,
you're buying—
[38:29] you're Your cost is triple.
[38:32] And the one variable is the bituminous,
[38:35] because that's the price that is flexible
in the contract.
[38:40] Every paver in the world, their bituminous
cost is flexible. So it's spot cost.
[38:47] Mm-hmm.
[38:47] So we may get a bid today for it, and then
by the time we get around to paving,
[38:54] saving in 3 months, that price could have
gone up,
[38:58] as you can well see what's going on right
now.
[39:01] You know, Venezuela bituminous is very
expensive, and it's hard to refine.
[39:07] Well, the prior city manager, I guess— I
forget what his name was—
[39:14] after Jeff Claussen.
[39:16] left was big on, well,
[39:18] it's better to do the capital expenditure
now so it's not going to
[39:25] cost as much down the road.
[39:27] Yeah, right.
[39:28] Even though there's probably more of a
balancing going on.
[39:32] But I think this, if I put my citizen hat
on,
[39:35] I think this information is valuable to
the citizens, should be educated,
[39:40] and my opinion is Management and the board
should do an estimate of what future
[39:46] capital expenditures are,
[39:48] and the extent that it could be based on
an engineering study from Barge or
[39:53] whatever, you get a little more substance
to that than to just—
[39:58] but you also have history,
[40:00] and you also can walk around and see the
potholes and whatever.
[40:04] Yeah, right.
[40:05] It should be management's best guess, and
then Then,
[40:08] it gets allocated back into those funds.
[40:11] You have the operating fund for 4 months,
6 months, whatever.
[40:15] Then, you have whatever, you have a solid
capital project, this,
[40:19] and then you have the others that are more
of an estimate.
[40:22] And then, you just monitor that.
[40:24] Anyway, I think that's owed to the
citizens,
[40:27] is to not just look and see that you have,
what, $12 million?
[40:31] No, yeah.
[40:33] $10 million?
[40:35] Yeah, so what do we— if we end up picking—
we can do it at the end of this meeting,
[40:40] but if we end up picking a time in January
to meet, what do we need?
[40:44] Could we— could you recirculate the barge
study?
[40:47] Yeah.
[40:48] It would be interesting. And maybe I'll
take a crack at it.
[40:53] It is huge. I'll skim it.
[40:56] I don't know if I can send you a link,
[41:01] but I will try to send you a link.
[41:05] Okay. Because it sounds like, again,
[41:08] if we came out of our January meeting with
a recommendation that was bolstered with
[41:13] some information from that as well as like
data you can provide,
[41:18] then that is what we could take to the
board following that meeting.
[41:23] Yeah. And if we haven't done all those
capital projects, like the question would
[41:28] capital projects, like the question would
be,
[41:28] do we really need another study done
that's going to cost Oak Hill a lot of
[41:33] that's going to cost Oak Hill a lot of
money 3
[41:34] years later? It's like, well,
[41:36] we haven't done all this $17 million worth
of projects,
[41:39] so we know it's at least $17 million.
Inflate that number.
[41:43] Yeah, you've got a good idea.
[41:45] I don't want to cost us a bunch of money
for another study if it's not—
[41:50] Yeah, that study was pretty expensive.
[41:53] I mean, from our standpoint, it was
$280,000.
[41:57] So, I mean, that was a lot of our ARPA
money to go out.
[42:02] I want to ask a stupid question because
I'm not an accountant and I'm not Grace
[42:06] Bennett, so I may not be following this.
[42:09] She's both.
[42:10] But I would say, so help me understand,
[42:13] the goal of Having a capital improvement
project fund specifically and carving
[42:20] out dollars. I understand like the
designated funds and that makes sense.
[42:26] Is it to try to compel the,
[42:28] the commissioners to spend that money on
capital projects over like a certain
[42:35] amount of time? So to say like,
[42:37] we are going to put extra money over here
and we want this to be spent.
[42:43] Yes.
[42:44] Or we suggest it to be spent, but that's
really their decision.
[42:48] I mean, isn't all of this basically for
capital projects anyway?
[42:53] Slash emergency.
[42:54] Yeah, slash emergency.
[42:56] So like, what's the goal of just—
[42:59] other than just bifurcating it on paper,
what's the goal?
[43:03] I think from my perspective, it's to
create discipline.
[43:08] with your funds so that you have certain
things that are
[43:13] restricted, that are earmarked for those
specific things.
[43:19] Because we'll get people in here that will
come in and say,
[43:24] we have so much money, why don't we—
[43:27] Gotcha.
[43:27] Why don't we buy a leaf truck to suck up
all the leaves on the side of
[43:33] the road? And I I think that's a great
idea,
[43:36] but it's not practical for us.
[43:39] Well, I think if you have a plan, to
John's point, if you have like—
[43:43] got it.
[43:43] If you've communicated a plan that says,
well, in both directions,
[43:46] both to the board to say we're going to be
more disciplined about spending the
[43:50] dollars and then being able to communicate
it to citizens.
[43:53] And these are the order of priorities and
where all of this money is slated to go.
[43:56] But it also plays into that there should
be I mean,
[44:00] why are permit fees as high as they are or
as low as they are?
[44:04] It helps you determine what you should
charge for these services,
[44:08] the same way with trash, which you have in
a separate fund.
[44:12] Well, and people complain about the permit
fees too being high.
[44:16] Yeah, so you've got—
[44:17] To build a pool in Oak Hill for a lot—
[44:20] it costs a lot more money to build a pool
in Oak Hill than in Metro.
[44:25] Yeah, but Like, I'm looking at this and
I'm going, this— all this money spoken
[44:31] I'm going, this— all this money spoken
for,
[44:32] you know. I mean, uh, and so we don't
really— on paper we have money, but right,
[44:38] we need to invest it.
[44:40] And see, that's how— that's how everybody
here on the board feels about it too,
[44:43] you know.
[44:44] Yeah.
[44:45] And, um, it's easy to come in and look at
your— look at the, uh, annual budget—
[44:49] I mean, the annual audit And you look at
the annual audit, you say, oh, hey, look,
[44:54] the city's got all this, all this money
and all these assets, but we really don't.
[44:59] I mean, it's—
[45:00] But on the audit report, if you do the
board, if you,
[45:04] if you follow your policy and put these
items in the funds, right,
[45:08] your fund balance then just doesn't show
$10 million.
[45:12] Yeah, that's a good point.
[45:13] It would be bifurcated.
[45:15] Yeah.
[45:17] I like that. I think,
[45:19] I think my only just kind of follow-up
question on this is like,
[45:24] I know we want to meet in January and we
want to look at studies and all that
[45:30] want to look at studies and all that
stuff,
[45:31] but like, are we— is it not fair to say,
and I could be missing something,
[45:37] we have $1.3 million in the bank, which is
what kind of our target needs to be.
[45:44] We have 50% of our annual budget In LGIP.
[45:47] So why not just say this is our capital
improvement project fund and call it a
[45:54] improvement project fund and call it a
day?
[45:54] Yeah.
[45:56] I mean, that's like—
[45:57] that's a good point.
[45:58] I mean, do we really need to make it
complicated?
[46:00] I'm wondering if you feel like there's not
appetite at the BOC level for designating
[46:05] all of that for capital projects.
[46:08] I think, I think, I think some people
would, some people would not.
[46:14] But I think, I think this, the board would
be,
[46:19] I think they would be plenty happy with
designating,
[46:24] designating all of that as restricted.
Because, I mean, we don't—
[46:30] Designate.
[46:31] Since I've been here, I have not Seen it,
having not been asked for it,
[46:36] and I have stood guard against, hey, let's
use this money for this,
[46:41] let's use this money for that.
[46:43] Hey, here's a nice— here's a nice charity,
[46:46] maybe we could just donate to the charity.
I mean, and I just— I fight against that.
[46:53] You know, that discussion comes up, I
said, well,
[46:56] I think that's not what this money's for.
[46:59] Yeah. I think it would have to— whatever
we land on,
[47:03] I think it just has to also then play
alongside your plan for here are the
[47:09] alongside your plan for here are the
projects
[47:09] we're doing in which order on top of the
regular maintenance.
[47:14] And so having those side by side, then it
says, okay, we've got—
[47:19] You know what this guards against?
[47:21] Several years back when they had some
challenges with Austin McMullen and
[47:27] others, and then a new group came in.
[47:30] They, they did not make any capital
expenditures for like 5 years,
[47:35] 5 or 6 years.
[47:36] Yeah.
[47:37] So there was zero on that line, and then
all of a sudden—
[47:40] And we're living through that now.
[47:41] Yeah.
[47:42] So this creates—
[47:44] You know, it's like anything else.
[47:45] If you don't take care of your house, it
falls down.
[47:48] If you don't take care of your car, it
breaks down. It would be awesome.
[47:52] If you don't take care of your city, it
crumbles.
[47:54] It would be interesting to kind of come up
with, and you might already have this,
[47:59] but if, you know, out of that study that
was done, 6 of the 20 were—
[48:02] 20 projects were highlighted, you know,
[48:04] to be able to have some communication that
goes out annually that just says, hey,
[48:09] we've completed 6 out of 20.
[48:10] We're slated to do 1 more in 2026, 2, and,
you know, and you start to show—
[48:14] Yeah.
[48:14] And show the, like, ticking of that.
[48:18] And I understand the fear of not— of like,
if I'm a commissioner or,
[48:24] you know, it's— there's probably a little
fear of, well,
[48:28] what if we need this money for something
else?
[48:32] There's probably a mechanism for a true
emergency.
[48:37] Right.
[48:38] Where the city can't— can't— yeah,
[48:41] there's probably a clause you can put in
there,
[48:45] but it's either for capital improvement
projects or a unanimous board
[48:51] decision to use it for a true emergency
where we can't get access to
[48:57] other funds for a short-term— or
short-term loan, or I don't know.
[49:02] Yeah, I mean, just take the storm for
instance.
[49:06] Yeah, I mean, after the first week and a
half,
[49:10] When the snow melted and people could get
in and out, the emergency was really over.
[49:17] Right.
[49:18] So cleaning up debris was not really an
emergency.
[49:23] I mean, you know, people's lives were not
in danger,
[49:28] but it was creating huge problems for
trash collection,
[49:33] emergency vehicles, So where did that
money come from?
[49:39] Did it come from Stone?
[49:40] Well, yes. We had partly LGIP,
[49:44] partly Stone, and partly from the
[49:48] operating budget.
[49:50] Okay.
[49:51] Operating checkbook.
[49:52] So we actually did ordinances to move or
amend the budget by $400,000. $4 million.
[49:59] We started out with $1 million, then it
turned into $2 million,
[50:05] then it turned into $4 million.
[50:07] So, but we didn't spend the $4 million, we
spent the $3.5 million.
[50:13] But, um, yeah, so we had some stone that
was in the sweep account, we had some—
[50:20] How much?
[50:20] And we had LGIP, and we had, and we had
some cash in the, in the checking.
[50:26] So we were able to To do it without—
[50:29] but if we had not had that cash available
to us,
[50:33] we'd have had to go out and borrow the
money,
[50:37] or we would have had to do it piecemeal,
and we'd still been picking up debris.
[50:43] Right, right.
[50:44] I mean, that would have been awful.
[50:45] Yeah.
[50:46] You know, but it would—
[50:47] but there was a lot of debris out there on
the side of
[50:52] the road that was really not Sure.
[50:55] Sure.
[50:55] Well, there's a great education or need
for education for transparency and
[51:01] disclosure to the full citizens of the
city.
[51:04] They understand that, and whether they get
it through the workshop that you shared,
[51:11] but anything that's internally designated
by the board is not technically
[51:17] restricted. A restriction is a legal
restriction usually in the county,
[51:22] like if somebody makes a contribution to
whatever school,
[51:26] it's restricted to this building or to
this place.
[51:30] But if this is internally designated,
[51:33] if the board says I want to use this for
these funds,
[51:37] that's internally designated and can be
undesignated.
[51:41] Yeah, so to your point, there's a reverse—
[51:43] With a resolution. But it does build into
discipline as to how you're allocating
[51:48] this versus showing $10 million of
undesignated funds and everybody comes in
[51:52] undesignated funds and everybody comes in
here
[51:53] and says, well, then I shouldn't have to
pay. Well, they do do that.
[51:56] They're saying I shouldn't have to pay for
trash collection.
[52:00] Well, so then I recommend we pick a date
in January and ahead of that I
[52:06] might draft something that then we can
discuss and tweak live at that
[52:11] meeting.
[52:12] Yeah.
[52:12] I don't know how January 22nd feels to
anybody. It's a Friday.
[52:21] Feels like early in the month is going to
be hard?
[52:25] No. I don't think so, right? Isn't it the
18th?
[52:28] Is it around President's Day? I think it
might be.
[52:30] Steve might be at the Super Bowl.
[52:32] No, I won't be. Unless Kansas City— Unless
Kansas City's playing, I might be.
[52:39] I don't think they'll get there this year.
[52:42] So 29th looks good.
[52:45] Okay, that's right.
[52:46] You want— you guys want to shoot for that?
[52:48] I was thinking the 22nd.
[52:50] 22nd, that's okay too. What is that?
[52:55] Is that a Friday?
[52:56] Friday.
[52:56] Is it got a— is that a holiday or
something?
[52:59] Standard.
[53:00] You have standard—
[53:01] oh, like Martin Luther King is usually
Monday or something.
[53:04] I just want to make sure it's not around
that weekend because sometimes—
[53:06] So 22nd is Monday, the 18th is MLK, so it
would be the weekend.
[53:12] Yeah, the 22nd is great.
[53:13] So the 22nd would be okay following.
[53:16] Okay,
[53:20] 22nd.
[53:25] And then just so you know,
[53:28] the workshop will be On Wednesday at
[53:33] 1 o'clock.
[53:34] On the 20th?
[53:36] On the 10th.
[53:36] Of February?
[53:39] Of February.
[53:39] Okay, so that would be enough time.
[53:41] Um, how long is the workshop?
[53:44] Uh, it starts at 1 and usually goes to
about 5 o'clock. What?
[53:48] But I bet we could convince them to put us
on the schedule earlier.
[53:52] We'll put you guys up front.
[53:53] There's no reason to meet that long at
all.
[53:56] You're telling me you haven't attended
one? Yeah, you have.
[54:01] You need to come and attend one and say
just what you said.
[54:05] That was feedback that I also provided as
to why I could not be on the BOC.
[54:11] Um, 9 AM on the 22nd?
[54:13] 9 AM is good. Yeah.
[54:15] Or would you prefer 8:30?
[54:18] I prefer either.
[54:20] All right, let's do 9 AM.
[54:21] 9 AM. 9 AM. For me, the earlier the
better, because that's usually—
[54:27] I can do early.
[54:28] Give me plenty of time.
[54:29] All right, we can do 8:30.
[54:31] 8:30.
[54:31] All right, despite current—
[54:33] sure.
[54:34] All right, I'm not, you know, all is
forgiven. Just, you know, what about—
[54:39] should I do a report out of this ahead of—
[54:42] because we had planned on my attending a
workshop and doing this earlier this year
[54:46] and it didn't get scheduled. Do I need to
do one before February 10th?
[54:50] Do you want to— do you want to come and do
that report at a BOC meeting?
[54:57] Sure.
[54:57] Yeah, I'm happy to do that.
[54:59] Just come to a BOC meeting for that and we
could do that.
[55:02] I think that makes sense because you
don't—
[55:07] Because I think it'd be good to keep that
on the record.
[55:09] Yeah, they usually do it like once a year
or something.
[55:12] Because we report up to the BOC.
[55:19] Yeah. So I think January 25th is the BOC
meeting.
[55:25] You don't want me to do one before that?
[55:27] Oh wait, I'm in the wrong year. Hold on a
second. I've already overshot their year.
[55:34] I'm sorry.
[55:35] Well, you can let me know if you want me
to come before January 25th.
[55:41] I'm happy to do that.
[55:42] Yeah.
[55:44] Let's just— you pick a day. It's the 4th
Tuesday.
[55:49] Okay.
[55:49] And I mean, you could come this—
[55:52] unless you want to wait and have more
information
[55:57] to put in there.
[55:58] I do— well, I'll circle back. I have
carpool on Tuesdays, but I can plan in
[56:03] carpool on Tuesdays, but I can plan in
advance.
[56:04] Okay. So we've set our next meeting. I
don't think there's any more business.
[56:09] Entertain a motion to adjourn. Do I have
to enter?
[56:13] That's it. That's all you got to do. Okay,
great.
[56:17] Meeting adjourned.
[56:18] Okay.
[56:19] 9:40.
[56:21] 9:40.
[56:21] Okay. All right, good.
[56:23] 50-minute meeting. We started at 8:44.
[56:31] This is your signed version?
[56:32] Yes. I'm just going to hand that to Steve.
[56:36] I feel like we've streamlined this to
where we don't— like,
[56:41] after we get this done, then, yeah, I
mean,
[56:45] I think we've made a lot of progress here.
[56:48] Yeah, I think adding build to worst, we
can put that in there.
[56:51] That should be a simple formula.
[56:53] I would like to know, yeah,
[56:56] just should we replace any of those
things?
[57:02] And then— Yeah, right.
[57:10] Yeah.
[57:18] All right. Thank you all.
[57:22] Thank you.
[57:55] Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm going
[58:02] to get rid of the work stuff.
[58:10] Okay, unless I have 2 new board— don't
forget we have 2 new board members.
[58:16] Oh yeah, yeah, I talked to Jen about she
wanted to be on