1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,879 and we're ready whenever you are, mayor. >> Thank you. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,480 » Good evening and thank you for attending tonight's city council meeting. For 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:14,960 those who are attending remotely, the camera and council chambers is set up to 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:19,039 show those attending in person tonight. The platform we are using has a raise 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:23,119 hand feature. You will notice a picture of a hand in the lower lefthand corner. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,119 When we reach the point in the meeting where the public has the opportunity to 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:32,239 address council, you can click that button to be given your opportunity to 8 00:00:29,279 --> 00:00:38,160 address council. Uh before we stand for the pledge tonight, um I would like to 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:46,800 uh state that we will have a moment of silence uh for two former uh city 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:50,719 officials. One being uh Frank Lame uh career firefighter in the ars fire 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:57,120 department. He retired as his assistant chief in 1998. Mr. Rene passed away 12 00:00:53,440 --> 00:01:01,600 recently as did Tim Davis, former city councelor from 2016 to 2019. So 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:07,080 following the pledge, we will pay our respects to both those individuals. 14 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,080 Please stand. 15 00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:16,560 » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic 16 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:22,680 for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 17 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,680 justice for all. 18 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,439 » Thank you. 19 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,439 » Cath, please call the role. >> Mayor Chulie 20 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:38,880 » here. >> Councelor Sy 21 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,400 » here. >> Councelor Lefay 22 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,200 » here. >> Councelor Scamperly. 23 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,200 » Councelor Stevenson >> here. Councelor Tibo 24 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,680 » here. >> Councelor Tren 25 00:01:46,079 --> 00:01:51,600 » here. Quum present. >> I know councelor Scanley is away for 26 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:57,640 family reason tonight. He's asked to be excused meeting. Uh any objection? 27 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:57,640 » No objection. 28 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:06,640 » Uh we do have not have any presentations tonight. So brings us to one public 29 00:02:04,159 --> 00:02:11,760 hearing. It is regarding ordinance to sell tax map number 59.022-14-7 30 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:17,560 022-14-7530 Runler Avenue tax map number 31 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,560 59-022-7-9615 32 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:25,360 Ford Avenue to the Auxburg Land Bank Corporation is going to be bill number 33 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:29,040 82 and I will open that public hearing now. If anyone attending in person would 34 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:35,239 like to speak regarding the public hearing, please come down to the podium 35 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,239 and you will have five minutes to speak. 36 00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:44,640 » Hey folks, Greg McNamera. Uh, as far as this land bank stuff, I would just like 37 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:48,319 some transparency here now, tonight, in the future, maybe during your discussion 38 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:52,560 tonight, because there's been none of it thus far during this administration. Uh, 39 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:57,480 why are they buying the properties? What's their plans with them? Uh, 40 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,480 those are the two best questions. I guess I'm I'm going to stay away from 41 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:09,280 the rest of it, but I would like someone from that committee to come up to the 42 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:14,720 podium or do a council meeting one day and uh express why they want to do what 43 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:19,440 they are doing your sales with them and all that stuff in the future. Thank you. 44 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:23,239 » Thank you. Anyone else in chambers? 45 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:29,040 Now, if anyone attending remotely would like to speak regarding the public 46 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,319 hearing, please use the raised hand feature in the lower lefthand corner of 47 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,560 your screen. You will have five minutes to speak. 48 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:42,879 » I do not see any hands raised, sir. >> All right. Having noted that, I am going 49 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:47,440 to keep the public hearing open. The resolution, if it is to be adopted, 50 00:03:44,799 --> 00:03:52,080 requires six yes votes of counsel. Uh, it's my understanding Deputy Mayor 51 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:56,159 Stevens of being recusing herself, Council Stanford being absent tonight. 52 00:03:54,159 --> 00:04:00,400 Six votes won't be available. So, we will not be introducing that resolution 53 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:06,400 tonight. At the next meeting where we do have seven uh counselors here at the 54 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:13,159 table, we will uh we will reopen the public hearing uh and before we put it 55 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,159 on the table for action. 56 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,479 That brings us to personal appearance. At this time, if anyone attending in 57 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:27,560 person would like to address council, please come down to the podium. You'll 58 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,560 have five minutes. 59 00:04:29,208 --> 00:04:34,800 [clears throat] Hey, I wanted to hop up here first for personal appearance. I 60 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:39,120 see there's a pile of firefighters behind me, all sitting out of the camera 61 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:44,080 area from the council chambers. The city employees all do that, too. It's really 62 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:49,600 strange. It doesn't happen in other uh cities, villages, etc. towns if you look 63 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:53,520 at their videos. I don't know why we do it here. And uh you can also hear what's 64 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,919 going on from the crowd in a lot of other places. You can't hear, but I'll 65 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:03,040 move on from that. Uh recently in the media, there's this battle going on, 66 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:09,039 another battle with uh the fire department and the city. I commend uh 67 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:14,800 Fond Cronis for making the suggestion that he did with 68 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:20,479 the contract situation and the overtime. I honestly think it was a little light 69 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:24,880 how he came down on them. Um now before I go back to that, let's rewind to 70 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:29,759 before the Skelly administration and Sarah Perie was on her way out of 71 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:35,919 here. Uh there was a group of individuals that worked on the contract 72 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:40,720 then which gave our fire department the most lucrative contract in New York 73 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:45,440 State and I believe in the United States of America that was pointed out by uh 74 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:49,840 John Ree in the last administration. He did say he found one in Arizona. I'd 75 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:55,199 assume they have a lot more fires there than we do here too. and it was probably 76 00:05:52,479 --> 00:05:59,120 in a city or an area where it was prosperous and they weren't in the 77 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:03,600 financial situation that we're in. But anyways, uh 78 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,960 they passed that contract to tie the last administration's hands. So, they 79 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:11,680 couldn't do anything with the fire department and it went how it went. 80 00:06:09,919 --> 00:06:16,720 There was a battle. The fire department won. I'll congratulate anyone who wins 81 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:22,000 the battle of court. Here we are today. Uh the city management comes back. The 82 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:25,280 city's in a disaster financially and here all they are. They I never see any 83 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,479 of them in the meeting. Their chiefs here. I wonder if the chief goes back to 84 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:33,840 the station and says, "Hey guys, look it. You know, here's what's going on. 85 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:38,319 The city's in a huge financial disaster. We need a new roof. 86 00:06:35,919 --> 00:06:43,280 uh we're probably going to have to more or less quit manipulating vacation time 87 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:50,639 so we all get a half a million dollars in extra overtime a year or you know 300 88 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:54,080 then 250 but it adds up. Uh I think they have a very good job. I think the city 89 00:06:52,560 --> 00:07:02,160 and the fire department should work together instead of be polarized. And uh 90 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,880 if I was the chief of the fire department, I'd tell him, "What do you 91 00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:09,599 think's going to be left after this?" And these battles keep going on and this 92 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,199 that and the other thing. Uh at one some point in time, the gravy train has to 93 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:17,520 hit the brakes and slow down a little bit. And with unions, that's what it is. 94 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:21,599 And it takes trains a while to slow down when they're way out of control and 95 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:26,639 overloaded like our fire department in its union. Um, 96 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,479 that's all I'm going to say during this part of my speech and I can't wait till 97 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:34,840 the decorum discussion and the next time I get up to the podium. Thank you. 98 00:07:53,280 --> 00:08:00,720 Yes. Uh Dan Dhy. I'm the second district vice 99 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:07,039 president for New York State Professional Firefighters Association 100 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:13,120 uh which Oinsburg falls under. Um I'm also a uh firefighter in Watertown, New 101 00:08:10,479 --> 00:08:18,479 York. Um I'm the president of their union. Uh and I'm an individual who 102 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:25,599 testified at the arbitration here in Ogdensburg about uh the specific two in 103 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:30,639 two out rule um which is an OSHA law stating that for every two firefighters 104 00:08:27,759 --> 00:08:36,000 that go in that you will have two firefighters standing outside, one can 105 00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:42,959 be an incident commander. uh and then one has to maintain uh clear 106 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:49,680 uh uh view of the entire scene uh and can 107 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:56,000 at a moment's notice go into help. Uh, and I testified on how with the fiveman 108 00:08:53,360 --> 00:09:01,040 minimum that you currently run, uh, you can have an incident commander and a RIT 109 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:05,120 team, you can have two going in to protect life and property and then you 110 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:10,560 can have somebody running the pump and then if you were to take somebody away, 111 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:15,360 more likely than not, the pump operator, you now are have become ineffective in 112 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:20,320 firefighting. Uh, I was handed uh when I got here 113 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:27,440 tonight a new SOP that essentially states that you will operate with four 114 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:31,800 and that you'll just stay outside unless there is a clear life hazard. 115 00:09:33,131 --> 00:09:36,760 [clears throat] >> Please refrain. 116 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:41,279 » That's the SOP that the chief came out with, 117 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:46,800 » not the firefighters. >> Please address C. 118 00:09:43,839 --> 00:09:52,160 I I think what you are uh about to undertake here is dangerous. Uh you're 119 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:57,519 in the middle of an interest arbitration over the contract to address some of 120 00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:02,160 these issues and to forward something like this during those interest 121 00:09:59,279 --> 00:10:06,640 arbitration hearings or during the deliberation of that with the board is 122 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:11,920 extremely disingenuous. This department has already gone from 28 123 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:17,279 down to 24 saving the city money. The last time this was tried, it cost the 124 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:21,839 city $519,000. You're headed down that same road. I 125 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:26,800 haven't heard the chief speak about this publicly. 126 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:32,240 And I think that council should be asking those questions of the chief 127 00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:38,800 about how he thinks it's going to operate with less men to do a 128 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:42,120 life-saving job. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. 129 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:55,600 Good evening, members [clears throat] of city council. My my name is Eddie 130 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:59,920 Santiago and I'm secretary treasurer for the New York State Professional 131 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:03,839 Firefighters. We represent 18,000 professional firefighters throughout New 132 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:09,920 York State, including the members of Hinsburg Fire Department. 133 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:14,000 Prior to my role with uh New York State professional firefighters, I spent 30 134 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:18,800 and a half years with the Rochester Fire Department. Of those 30 and a half 135 00:11:16,079 --> 00:11:22,959 years, 10 were as union president representing 500 firefighters, but 136 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,959 overall I spent 20 years on the executive board. 137 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:31,120 I'm here tonight to address some of the issues that are being considered by 138 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:35,200 council and also some of the mischaracterization 139 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:39,839 being shared. members [clears throat] 140 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:44,480 members of the uh New York State professional firefighters first concern 141 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:49,040 is always public safety above above all all else. 142 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:53,839 Our members get up every day and go to work to face any challenge from 143 00:11:51,519 --> 00:11:59,279 dangerous structure fires to auto accidents and medical emergencies. They 144 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:04,640 put their lives on the line and risk physical harm to themselves to help 145 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:09,920 other citizens in the most vulnerable moments. 146 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:15,440 Our members face physical and mental physical mental and emotional stress 147 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:20,000 from the situations they face on the job and they are being asked to do more with 148 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:23,360 less. All of that is against the backdrop of everinccreasing call 149 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:30,320 volumes, more complicated fire response and the 150 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:35,920 advent the advent of electrical vehicles and battery fires which require 151 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:41,480 continued advanced training and aging population with complicated medical 152 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,480 needs. 153 00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:50,240 Each year, fire and emergency responses response call call volume across New 154 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:56,480 York State fire departments have gone up. In spite of those challenges, our 155 00:12:53,680 --> 00:13:02,720 members show up to work and fill the 24-hour shifts 365 days a year. When 156 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,399 people are at home celebrating the holidays with their families in all 157 00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:11,760 types of weather, we are on duty to answer the call. 158 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:17,680 So when I heard that our members who negotiated a contract in good faith are 159 00:13:14,639 --> 00:13:23,040 now being attacked legally and publicly and facing accus acc accusations 160 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:27,279 and false I'm sorry and false accusations are being spread. I needed 161 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:31,760 to come up here and set the record straight. 162 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:37,279 It is common knowledge in New York that the amendment to the Taylor law 163 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:41,360 makes it illegal for public employees to change the terms and conditions of an 164 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:47,200 expired collective bargaining agreement until a new contract is negotiated. 165 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:52,800 It is simple, uncomplicated, and it's the law. I believe the city council is 166 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:56,720 re receiving bad advice from their attorneys. 167 00:13:54,399 --> 00:14:01,760 I won't speculate why. I won't speculate why they're 168 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:06,639 getting bad advice, but I will note that our members are simply asking for the 169 00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:11,760 council to honor the law and negotiate in good faith. 170 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:16,399 We negotiated minimum staffing according to NFPA standards 171 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:23,519 for staffing with five firefighters on duty and every shift. All we're asking 172 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:30,000 is for a city to honor the contract that was signed and negoti and negotiate 173 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:34,720 a new contract in good faith. Sadly, we've been down this road before with 174 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:39,199 the previous administration. It is my hope that we can all learn from 175 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:43,519 the failures of the last administration and come to a fair and equitable 176 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:48,320 conclusion that maintains the safety of the citizens of Ogdensburg without 177 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:53,519 wasting precious taxpayer money on frivolous lawsuits that will only enrich 178 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:58,959 the city's lawyers and will eventually fail like the last one did. We are ready 179 00:14:56,959 --> 00:15:02,079 to come to the bargaining table and we ask that you do the same. Thank you for 180 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:05,199 your time. >> Thank you, sir. 181 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:15,920 Please refrain from speaking until we have another opportunity during personal 182 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:21,279 appearance later. You can may not address may not 183 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:26,000 interfere with the meeting and address those people who are speaking to us. 184 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,959 » What people specifically 185 00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:31,600 » the gentleman you just addressed as he returned to his seat. 186 00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:36,160 » Thank you for clarifying. >> Sorry. I won't address them again. 187 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:41,000 » Can I address any of my other neighbors? Or 188 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,000 » if you do it respectfully and quietly, 189 00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:47,920 » please. >> Good evening, council. My name is Scott 190 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:52,240 McCormack, resident taxpayer, vice president of the Augsburg Professional 191 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:55,360 Local 1799. I'm a proud 14-year member of the city of Agingsburg's fire 192 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:59,440 department. Currently hold the rank of captain. The issue before us is not a 193 00:15:57,839 --> 00:16:02,959 political preference or administrative convenience. It's whether Ogdensburg 194 00:16:01,199 --> 00:16:06,480 will continue honoring a daily minimum staffing requirement that was put in 195 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:12,160 place for one reason and one reason only, to keep firefighters and the 196 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:16,000 public safe when the worst happens. Although the provisions at excuse me, 197 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:20,480 the provisions at issue here do not expressly mention safety as a reason for 198 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:24,639 the minimum staffing requirements, the safety considerations are self-evident 199 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:29,360 from the nature of the work to be performed. the quintessential dangerous 200 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:34,560 task of addressing conflrations that from time to time beset communities. It 201 00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:39,600 goes without saying in such situations having adequate personnel on hand 202 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:45,360 would essentially ensure firefighting safety as well as successful fire in 203 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:50,639 fight excuse me success in fighting fire in fighting fires. This quote from the 204 00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:55,519 unanimous January 13, 2022 New York Street State Supreme Supreme Court third 205 00:16:53,120 --> 00:17:00,399 appellet division ruling clearly states that five member daily minimum staffing 206 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:04,079 requirements are built upon exactly for safety of firefighters. This contract 207 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:10,880 provision was constructed by national safety standards, most notably NFPA 1710 208 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:15,039 and OSHA 29CR1910 to ensure the adequate personnel are on 209 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:19,520 hand to ensure firefighter safety in the event of a structural firefight. 210 00:17:17,919 --> 00:17:23,679 With such a strong ruling on such important contractual provisions, the 211 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:27,679 question has to be asked, who's gone above and beyond the New York Supreme 212 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:31,760 Court, the National Fire Protection Agency, and the Occup Occupational 213 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,919 Safety and Health Administration and deemed the in deemed it failing to 214 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:41,200 maintain this daily minimum staffing requirement is in fact actually safe. 215 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:45,520 Who in the room? Who on this council? Who in our city management team has the 216 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:51,080 experience or expertise to necessarily overstep two national safety agencies in 217 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,080 a Supreme Court? 218 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:57,679 Who made these decisions? This is a question to this point is completely 219 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:01,760 unanswered. No public comment, no com no council discussion, no comment from the 220 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:06,640 fire chief. There seems to be a pattern here. so-called operational change which 221 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:10,559 was which enacted behind closed doors and as and as a union understands it 222 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:14,000 without the presence of a fire chief the head of the department which this 223 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:18,799 so-called change will decrease our minimum staffing 20% of a response it 224 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:24,160 would appear that there is a gag order in place stop me when it begins to sound 225 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:29,440 exactly like 2020 all over again it would 226 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:33,280 again daily minimum staffing declared to not be enforceable council and 227 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:38,000 department heads gag order and one person speaking for the city is a city 228 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:42,000 manager. We've all been here before. We've all done this before and we know 229 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:46,080 the outcome was then and what it will be now. The last administration quote 230 00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:50,480 declared daily minimum safety requirements uninforceable, costing the 231 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:55,520 city $519,000. How much will it cost this time around? 232 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:59,440 You may only ask one thing. Put the safety above politics. to see the men 233 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,760 and women in this room have sworn an oath to serve community as more than 234 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:09,440 numbers on the bottom of a ledger, but see them as who they are. Fathers, sons, 235 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:12,880 mothers, daughters, brothers, sisters, they are all human beings. Human beings 236 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,000 and deserve to know that when they show up to work knowing they have taken an 237 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,120 oath to protect those in the city of Agingsburg, even if it means giving 238 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,480 their life in an effort to save anothers, that they can perform their 239 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:26,640 job the safest and the most efficient way possible. noting that if they have 240 00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:30,400 to face that ultimate choice to risk their own life for another there's 241 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:34,480 someone outside ready willing and able to save them to come to their aid ensure 242 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:39,440 that we all get a chance to go home safe at the end of the shift so again I ask 243 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,039 who made these decisions we haven't even heard from the fire chief on this matter 244 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:48,080 and as far as the union knows wasn't in the room when the decision was made all 245 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:52,400 it takes is one counselor one person to spark the conversation why not just ask 246 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:56,400 the fire chief for his input on the matter why not seek out the answer to 247 00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:02,000 the question that plaguing all of us and should be plaguing all of you. Is this 248 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:05,000 actually safe? Thank you. Thank you, Scott. 249 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,840 Anyone else in chambers? 250 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,960 My name is Tammy Bush and I am a lifelong resident of Agensburg. I'm here 251 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,919 tonight to share my concerns on the direction we are going in 252 00:20:28,794 --> 00:20:34,240 [clears throat] as a city regarding development. I want to begin with a 253 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:38,000 simple question. As a community, are we strategically planning for growth? And I 254 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,240 want everyone to think carefully about that question, especially about the word 255 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:46,159 strategically. If you ask me, my answer without hesitation would be no. Not 256 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:51,039 because the recent ideas presented for the n national diamond site are not 257 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:56,559 attractive, but attractive does not necessarily mean sustainable. My opinion 258 00:20:54,159 --> 00:21:00,799 is based on experience. From 2019 to 2026, I secured more than 30 million in 259 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:05,120 capital and service grant funds for projects in this city. I had to research 260 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:09,200 and analyze local demographics, incomes, poverty rates, employment, education 261 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:13,520 levels, family sizes, housing inventory, and much, much more to be able to submit 262 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:17,280 winning applications. I have a degree in sociology and advanced research methods. 263 00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:21,120 I co-ressearched a project and I co-authored a paper on mental health in 264 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:25,280 North Country that was published by the American Psychological Association. I 265 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:29,280 mention these things only because I have spent years studying what our community 266 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:33,200 needs. I've been involved in virtually every phase of project development from 267 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:37,039 planning, funding, contract closing, construction and completion, working 268 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:41,280 alongside developers, contractors, architects, and project managers on 269 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:45,039 development teams. So when I talk about strategic development, I'm not speaking 270 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:49,760 theoretically. I'm talking about what I've done. 271 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:54,159 » Not right now, sir. >> I'll tell you again. 272 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:57,200 » I believe that our desperation is shaping. 273 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:03,799 » Please suspend. This push please suspend. I've asked asked management to 274 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,799 restore order and chambers. 275 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:11,280 » Right. Relax. Okay. >> Let the meeting go on. 276 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,280 » Let the meeting go on. Okay. >> Sorry. 277 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:30,240 » Yes. Here we go. >> It's got to go. 278 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:35,840 » All right. I'll sleep on my No problem. Thanks. That's fine. 279 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,540 » You guys enjoy your job. They won't be here very long. [snorts] 280 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,840 » Please >> don't need interaction. 281 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,960 Again, 282 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:08,120 I would remind people in the audience, please let us conduct the business of 283 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,120 city government to see. 284 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,280 » Thank you. You make it too. >> Thank you. So, when I talk about 285 00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:18,159 strategic development, I'm not speaking theoretically. I'm talking about what 286 00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:22,000 I've done. I believe that our desperation is shaping some common false 287 00:23:20,159 --> 00:23:25,600 beliefs. One, that we need an outsider to come save us, and two, that the best 288 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,480 way to develop in Ogdensburg is to build something big that makes people come 289 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,640 here. And that brings me back to the Diamond National Site. We have been told 290 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,400 this property is extremely valuable, and it is. But what is more valuable as 291 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:39,679 members of this community, we should not be asking what does a developer want to 292 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,679 bring. We should ask what does our community need and how can we use this 293 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:47,679 property to satisfy that need? Because this is not just another piece of vacant 294 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:51,440 land. It is waterfront. And to us who have been raised by this river, it is 295 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:55,039 gold. And I do not believe we should be selling it for chump change. The people 296 00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:58,159 who have stayed here, worked here, raised families here, opened businesses 297 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:03,120 here, and invested their lives here deserve to benefit from its from it as 298 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:06,080 it is our asset. I'm not asking you to not develop. I'm asking you to pause 299 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,320 long enough to consider different models of development. I submitted a proposal 300 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:14,080 in response to the Diamond National RFP knowing it did not stand a chance, as I 301 00:24:12,159 --> 00:24:18,000 only found it less than two weeks before the deadline. But I wanted to show the 302 00:24:16,159 --> 00:24:21,760 city what strategic community centered development looks like. And even though 303 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:26,080 the actual proposal was not competitive, I stand by that project 100% as being 304 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,679 sustainable and viable while improving the quality of life for all community 305 00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:33,919 members, not just filling the pockets of a few. Imagine a roller rink that easily 306 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,120 transforms into a venue with a dance floor. An art center where people can 307 00:24:35,679 --> 00:24:41,600 walk in and discover a passion they didn't know they had. A marketplace with 308 00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:45,520 affordable low rent yearround shops that provides residents with place to buy 309 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,679 while giving local entrepreneurs a place to open business without going in debt. 310 00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:53,760 A small amphitheater where local bands and emerging artists can perform with a 311 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:58,080 capacity that our streets, roadways, infrastructure, and resources in the 312 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:01,520 city can handle. A high quality on the job training program that provides the 313 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,720 city with an attractive and capable workforce, ultimately attracting 314 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:08,799 businesses with better jobs and better pay. A solar garden that demonstrates 315 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,159 sustainability and becomes part of an art installation that lights up the 316 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,600 riverfront at night for our neighbors to wander at. And a boardwalk that tells 317 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:20,320 the story of the property itself, recognizing it in its early years as a 318 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:24,880 shipyard to its industrial era and to then to today. A benefit corporation 319 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:29,360 model, an alternate philosophy of development can create responsibility 320 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:34,159 that expends extends beyond simply max maximizing profit while returning the 321 00:25:31,679 --> 00:25:37,440 property to the tax role. It is my guess that while many of us agree on many 322 00:25:35,919 --> 00:25:40,799 things, getting properties back on the tax roles to get the city out of debt is 323 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:44,799 one thing we could all stand together on. We are not going to grow from 324 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,240 starting big, nor are we going to grow from people coming to us. We're going to 325 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,200 grow when we start looking at the skills, talents, and passion that we 326 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,440 have right here in every single person that calls Agensburg their home. Because 327 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,039 when people have a place where they can open a small business, perform on a 328 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:02,799 stage, sell something they created, learn something new, teach a class, 329 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,159 attend an event, walk along the river, watch the sunset, or simply spend time 330 00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:09,520 with their families. They've developed something that cannot be measured on a 331 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:14,000 spreadsheet. They've developed ownership. Development is not bringing 332 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,600 something to Ogdensburg. It is about bringing Agensburg to the people who are 333 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:21,440 already here. Let's create something that belongs to the people who call 334 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:25,919 Agensburg home and not simply trade in a piece of our leg our legacy for someone 335 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:30,679 else's profit. This this should be our strategy. Thank you. 336 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,679 » Thank you. 337 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,520 » Anyone else in chambers? 338 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,520 » Now, if anyone attending remotely would like to address council, please use the 339 00:26:39,679 --> 00:26:47,480 raised hand feature. The city clerk will recognize and unmute one person at a 340 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,480 time and you will have five minutes. 341 00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:54,240 » I do not see any hands raised. Mark >> brings us to correspondence. You have 342 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,919 any correspondence this evening? >> We do not. 343 00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:02,720 » Brings us to the consent agenda that the claims is enumerated in general fund 344 00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:09,520 warrant number 16-2026 in the amount of $748,213.50 345 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:14,240 50 and library warrant number 16-2026 amount of $0. Capital fund warrant 346 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:17,240 number 16-2026 in the amount of $51,91061. 347 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:24,640 And community development fund warrant number 16-2026 348 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:30,080 in the amount of $0 and community renewal fund warrant number 16-2026 in 349 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,480 the amount of $0 is audited. Be it same hereby are ordered paid. I so move. 350 00:27:32,159 --> 00:27:35,200 Second. >> Second. 351 00:27:33,679 --> 00:27:36,640 » Please call. >> Mayor Tulie. 352 00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:38,080 » Yes. >> Councelor Silly. 353 00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:40,000 » Yes. >> Councelor Lefay. 354 00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,679 » Yes. >> Councelor Stevenson. 355 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,200 » Yes. >> Councelor Tibo. 356 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,480 » Yes. >> Councelor Trim. 357 00:27:44,159 --> 00:27:47,200 » Yes. >> Approved. 358 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,799 » Do not have any appointments tonight. Princess items for council action. The 359 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:54,880 one item that was on the agenda. I've already indicated we are moving from the 360 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:59,600 agenda to be placed on a future agenda to the city council. 361 00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:02,240 So, that brings us to old business and we'll begin with city manager Father 362 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,320 Cron. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, council asked 363 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:10,960 for legal guidance about uh the procurement process uh for waterfront 364 00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:15,520 properties and how that guidance shapes the selection process moving forward for 365 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:21,600 shade roller. Um, so I did consult with the city attorney. Um, and obviously 366 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:25,520 questions have came up uh from council uh whether council could hear a 367 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:30,880 presentation from a group outside the RFP process or reach an agreement with a 368 00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:35,600 specific developer outside that process. Um, so I did want to share with council 369 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:40,080 and with the public what the city attorney's legal opinion is. Um, and so 370 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:44,080 I I do have a few bullet points here that I'd like to share. So the first 371 00:28:41,679 --> 00:28:48,480 bullet point says uh the city should not engage with an individual or developer 372 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:54,640 who failed to timely submit a response to an RFP when other parties responded 373 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:59,919 on time. Doing so exposes the city to legal action from those who followed the 374 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:04,480 rules. The city attorney did not find any credible reason for the city to be 375 00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:09,919 sued over its diamond national RFP process or any pending decisions that 376 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:15,760 may come out of it. An open competitive process, an RFP or an auction exists to 377 00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:20,559 prevent backroom deals and to maximize the benefit to the city, whether 378 00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:25,919 financial or otherwise. While a parcel 379 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:31,600 the city acquired for back taxes, is not legally required to go through the city 380 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:36,240 codes auction process. The city attorney advises that 381 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:43,520 transferring such a large parcel without an RFP or an auction carries some legal 382 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:49,120 risk. The city retains discretion to sell only a portion of the parcel for an 383 00:29:46,159 --> 00:29:54,320 RFP respondent when the city's interests are are deemed so by the council and 384 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:58,320 it's done something similar in the past. So, in short, council's advice is that a 385 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:04,080 competitive documented process is both legally sound 386 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:08,399 um and one that best protects the city's uh financial interests. 387 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:13,200 So, that guidance is very consistent with the process we've put together uh 388 00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:17,200 for Diamond um and the process that I'm sure that I will recommend for Shade 389 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:21,279 Roller when the time comes. um that protects fairness for everyone u 390 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:25,360 everyone interested in the site and keeps us aligned with the legal 391 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,679 realities of the situation. Uh so I do want to take just a moment in time uh to 392 00:30:27,679 --> 00:30:35,679 give a status update on shade roller if that's okay. Uh mayor um I think I've 393 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:39,520 shared with council uh that DEEC which is department of environmental 394 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:45,200 conservation uh previously did approve the city's uh remedial investigations 395 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,080 report which is a positive step in the process. 396 00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:52,159 Last week, I was told that the Department of Health on the state side 397 00:30:49,919 --> 00:30:55,919 issued a negative uh threat assessment determination for the site. And that's 398 00:30:53,679 --> 00:31:01,039 very good news because it means the city can choose the remediation of that land 399 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:05,760 to process um as opposed to it being dictated by state regulators. So, that's 400 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:09,840 always a bonus. Uh today, as a matter of fact, I received comments on the city's 401 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:15,120 submission on what's called the alternatives assessment report. That's a 402 00:31:12,399 --> 00:31:18,559 AAR is what that stands for. Um, and so I've consulted with the engineer on the 403 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:23,440 project and we both consider the comments quite minor. Uh, so we should 404 00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:29,120 be able to turn around uh a second draft of the AAR pretty quickly. Um, so now we 405 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:34,000 have a pretty good idea what the remediation at shade roller is going to 406 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:39,440 look like. we have a pretty good idea uh what the estimated costs are going to 407 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:44,159 be and that will help us in our whatever future RFP or whatever future 408 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:49,039 procurement process council determines it is highly likely um but this is not 409 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:53,600 official but highly likely that that site will be zoned resident uh 410 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:58,960 restricted residential that's uh what it looks like at this moment in time but 411 00:31:55,279 --> 00:32:07,679 again not official so the next step is for the city to ressubmit that AR and 412 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:11,519 have GEC approve it. Um then the city will need to develop what's called a 413 00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:16,000 site management plan and we'll have to file environmental easements on the 414 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:19,679 property. Those are standard things. Um and they just take a little bit of time 415 00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:23,840 to put together. Um, while all of that is happening in the background, my 416 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:29,440 recommendation is for the city to begin soliciting proposals for developers on 417 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:35,519 on the shade site using a similar process to diamond. 418 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:40,799 What the city was going to want to do is identify a preferred developer for shade 419 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:45,600 prior to any certificate of completion and and we would need to add that 420 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:50,640 preferred developer to the city's BOA application so that any tax credits that 421 00:32:48,159 --> 00:32:55,679 would go along with remediating whatever is is I call it dirty dirt but you know 422 00:32:53,200 --> 00:33:00,080 whatever contamination is on the site those tax credits can get conveyed to 423 00:32:57,919 --> 00:33:03,679 the preferred developer and there is plenty of time to do that because we 424 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:10,720 don't expect the certificate of completion to come to us from DEEC uh 425 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:14,559 probably until Q2 of 2027. So I I do want to repeat the fact that this gives 426 00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:20,799 us plenty of time gives the city plenty of time to run a full RFP process. Um I 427 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:27,039 can definitely see an RFP being issued in Q4 of this year um and the process 428 00:33:24,399 --> 00:33:31,760 running through Q1. Um, and that still gives plenty of time for the city to add 429 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:36,720 a developer on the application well ahead of any certificate of completion. 430 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:41,360 So, I would do want to set an expectation on timing. 431 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:45,279 None of this goes quickly. I think we've all realized that. I think we all want 432 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,559 it to go quicker than it is. Um, but it doesn't. And if there's any developer 433 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:53,360 out there who's looking to leverage state funds to augment their investment, 434 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:57,600 that's going to add to the uh the time frame. If you think about it, um, you 435 00:33:55,519 --> 00:34:04,000 know, one proposal was to leverage the LWRP program. Well, LWRP grant, uh, 436 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:10,639 solicitations won't be out until May of 2027. They'll be due July of 2027. You 437 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:18,720 won't hear a decision on the LWRP until December of 2027. By the time the state 438 00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:24,720 contracts out, it'll be late Q2 of 2028. By the time you do bids, by the time you 439 00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:29,040 do bid awards, we're talking Q3, Q4, um you won't really be able to get into the 440 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:33,440 ground until spring of 2029. If there is a developer out there that has um their 441 00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:37,760 own financing and and isn't going to rely on the state, we can compress that, 442 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:42,399 but I do want to set some expectations on timing because that's that's 443 00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:47,200 realistic, right? That's realistic. So there really is no timing pressure that 444 00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:52,720 should push anybody or any process towards a shortcut. Once the AAR is 445 00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:57,599 approved, uh my office will be ready to bring a formal RFP uh to the public for 446 00:34:55,359 --> 00:35:02,320 shade. We'll run it the same way as we have with diamond. Um and all of that is 447 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:09,520 consistent with the legal guidance we received from the city attorney. 448 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:15,280 » Uh thank you, F. Before we proceed with council questions or comments, I do have 449 00:35:12,079 --> 00:35:20,880 a statement I'd like to um looking back over discussions over 450 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:24,800 the past month or so. I think it's important to remind 451 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:29,119 ourselves as a city council and public in general that in the city manager form 452 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:33,760 of government there are distinct roles delegated to city management to the 453 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:37,920 governing body regarding economic development matters and particular 454 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:42,079 proposals of developers for economic development of city-owned property. The 455 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:47,040 operational role of professionally vetting such proposals is administered 456 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:51,119 by management. In performing this responsibility, management follows the 457 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:56,000 procurement process agreed to by management and council. 458 00:35:53,839 --> 00:36:00,400 In its administration of the procurement process, it is manager's responsibility 459 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:04,880 to develop the information, conduct the analysis, identify the risks and 460 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:09,760 opportunities, and make a professional recommendation to council so it can make 461 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:13,520 a policy decision. This collaborative approach is essential if the city 462 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:18,960 manager form of government is to function efficiently and effectively. 463 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:23,440 Whatever process is chosen, I think it important that the vetting process is 464 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:26,640 performed in a non-public forum. Private personal and business financial 465 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,520 information is shared and discussed during the vetting process. 466 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:42,079 process requires the evaluation of a proposal to determine if it is 467 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:47,760 financially, operationally, and strategically viable. It can take time 468 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:52,320 to evaluate multiple proposals as follow-up discussions occur between the 469 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:56,480 evaluation committee and the developers to allow them time to respond to 470 00:36:54,079 --> 00:37:00,880 committee questions. Once the evaluating committee completes 471 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:06,800 its work, it forwards recommendations to city council for its consideration. 472 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:10,160 Personally, I believe the vetting process agreed to by management and 473 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:15,119 council in marketing the Diamond National property has been a sound 474 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:19,040 process. A request for proposals was issued that management and an 475 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:22,480 independent development consultant reviewed and scored the responses 476 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,680 submitted within the established timeline. 477 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:29,599 A subcommittee consisting of representatives of management, our 478 00:37:27,359 --> 00:37:34,400 development consultant, and council reviewed the evaluations proposals. They 479 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:39,280 have had follow-up communications with developers of proposals selected for 480 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:44,079 consideration and the vetting process continues. 481 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:48,880 So, having said this, um I guess I'd rather not wait. I encourage city 482 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:53,359 council to recommend to the city manager use of the same procurement process that 483 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:57,200 being an RFP and marketing shape property. 484 00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:02,320 The RFP process provides information about the parcel, details community 485 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:07,680 goals and objectives for the parcel, lists RFP requirements, including 486 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:14,079 selection criteria and process, and details submission information required. 487 00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:20,000 And I find the RFP process is a fair process for all developers interested in 488 00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:26,240 the project. So with that, I'll turn it over to council for comments. 489 00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:31,680 Mayor, I I agree with uh everything you said this evening. Our RFP process works 490 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:35,200 very well. Um it is fair to all. Everyone has the same timeline, same 491 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:39,520 expectations. Additional question, Fonda, if you would 492 00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:43,520 please explain. I understand what restricted residential is, but the 493 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:47,599 public may not understand that. Sometimes they think that we can just 494 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:51,520 build single family homes on that land. And if you would explain that a little 495 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:54,800 bit, I'd appreciate it. Who who sets that regulation? It's not us. It's the 496 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,359 process. >> Correct. The process will dictate that. 497 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:03,839 Um and then the state regulators, mostly DEEC, but in in partnership with 498 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:08,240 Department of Health will determine what the zoning can be in those situations. 499 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:14,200 Restricted residential uh is anything but single family residential. 500 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,200 » Thank you. 501 00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:25,040 » Anyone else? council prepared to make a recommendation to management tonight 502 00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:26,640 with regards to shape procurement process. 503 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:30,240 » Yes. >> Yes. 504 00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:33,599 » That being RFP process for Dational. 505 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,119 » Absolutely. >> So I think you have your direction. 506 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,119 » Appreciate that. Thank you for the guidance. 507 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,280 I I I have a an additional comment to make and again reflects back on some of 508 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:55,520 the discussion over the past couple meetings. 509 00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:00,800 Um so having given this direction to management, I repeat my comments from 510 00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:04,640 the last meeting in appreciation of JK Strategic's interest in developing the 511 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:08,640 shake property. I note they clarified in their response 512 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:12,800 for the record handed the council at our last meeting that their proposal 513 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:17,440 specific to the shade roll of property that quote the proposal before the 514 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:23,680 council is not a late bid into the diamond national process and does not 515 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:28,640 depend on it. So I encourage JGK and other interested developers to provide a 516 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:33,920 response to the shade roller RFP when it is issued and to abide by the process 517 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:37,359 that will be outlined in it. Uh, and as Father said, I remind the 518 00:40:35,839 --> 00:40:40,880 public the city government has made you aware there remain issues with the 519 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:45,359 property pertaining to its remediation that need to be addressed with the DEEC 520 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:50,079 and state department of health. I think it's fair to say city council is anxious 521 00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:55,040 to move forward with this process, but we must do so responsibly and time is 522 00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:01,760 needed to resolve these issues with these state agencies. 523 00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:04,760 Uh, any further discussion at this time? Any 524 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:14,240 other old business to come for council? >> I have one item of old business. Um, 525 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:19,440 it's been discussed for a number of years. Um, is a skateboard park. Um, we 526 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:23,680 have one. It's in very poor condition. We have promised our skateboard 527 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:28,000 enthusiasts for many years that they would be 528 00:41:25,359 --> 00:41:32,640 um on the front burner for us to look at as far as development. um that was 529 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:37,440 supposed to be a temporary location, a temporary situation. So, I would ask 530 00:41:35,359 --> 00:41:41,839 that we revisit this perhaps with the rec commission and ask them to give us 531 00:41:39,359 --> 00:41:47,520 some recommendations. Perhaps we could look at that as a future uh grant that 532 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:51,040 we apply for. Um but I do think that it's time that we step up what we're 533 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:55,680 providing for our skateboard enthusiasts. There's a big group of the 534 00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:58,240 of kids and adults that do this. It's it's not just, you know, five or six 535 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:03,359 people that are down [snorts] there wanting to do it, but um I went down and 536 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:07,359 walked around and it's it needs help. So, I'd appreciate it if we could uh as 537 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:12,200 a council have consensus to at least look into this and see if there's 538 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:12,200 anything we can 539 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,800 » do some research on this issue. >> Sounds good. 540 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,839 » We'll send it to the rec commission for their thoughts. 541 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,440 » Thank you. >> Any other old business? 542 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:32,160 » I've got one. Yes, please. >> Um, the revenue comparison breakdown by 543 00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:35,680 Angela, I think it was three meetings ago, 544 00:42:33,359 --> 00:42:44,319 » she mentioned 11 million more gallons of water metered use. Was there ever a 545 00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:49,920 did we ever look into that? Why? >> We we are looking into it. It's not as 546 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:55,280 easy as as uh as here's where it is. So, yeah, the analysis is being done. Sure. 547 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,280 Okay. 548 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,560 other old business 549 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:07,440 brings us new business. We'll be giving city manager FUS with their fiscal year 550 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,960 2027 budget process update. >> Sure. Thanks, Mayor. I just wanted to 551 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:15,920 let everybody know that um department heads have submitted their uh budget 552 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:19,119 requests. I received them on Friday of of last week. the 553 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:23,760 controller and I will be meeting with department heads all week to uh go over 554 00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:30,640 those numbers and go over the budget line by line. Um we've got a lot of work 555 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:35,839 to do um to balance spending over uh anticipated revenues. Our big challenges 556 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:41,119 uh are really cost of health care, retirement costs and energy costs which 557 00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:45,520 we basically say every year. Um the numbers I think are just a little bit 558 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:50,800 bigger than than they have uh in the in the past. Council's been clear it's 559 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:54,800 looking to lower the levy by $117,000 and reduce the reliance on fund balance 560 00:43:52,720 --> 00:44:01,200 as a revenue source. So, we are trying to bake all of that in um with the uh 561 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:06,640 upward pressures on costs and I would uh encourage council to begin discussions 562 00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:11,920 on identifying workshop uh dates for October, middle to end of October so 563 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:18,839 that we can get those on the calendar and uh and get everybody scheduled. 564 00:44:15,839 --> 00:44:18,839 » Questions? 565 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,200 » Thank you for that update. Any other new business? 566 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:35,680 Uh hearing none, that brings us to items for discussion that will begin the city. 567 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:39,599 » Uh thank you, Mr. Mayor. At last week's council meeting, a member 568 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:43,440 of the public verbally attacked and slandered a member of my family for no 569 00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:49,280 other reason than just to get back at me. That behavior is really not 570 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:54,480 acceptable. Um it targeted someone who has no role and no voice in the business 571 00:44:51,359 --> 00:44:58,319 of the city. The remarks were cruel, insulting, and really had nothing to do 572 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:02,160 with any of the issues that we were discussing at the moment in time. And 573 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:07,040 they do reflect poorly on what some people apparently believe uh passes for 574 00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:11,280 constructive public discourse these days. 575 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:15,119 No one here is more willing than I am to take criticism from the people of this 576 00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:20,240 city. I'm a strong believer in the First Amendment, even when I am the target 577 00:45:18,319 --> 00:45:25,280 um in the butt of those criticisms. I expect criticism. I have accepted that 578 00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:30,400 as part of being the city manager of Ogdensburg. Um, but my family did not 579 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:34,480 sign up for this job. I did and so they shouldn't have to answer like I have to. 580 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:39,839 And I want to remind everybody in the room in in this room, anybody watching 581 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:44,400 the video live or watching it later um what the rules are that govern how these 582 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:49,119 meetings should be conducted. And in case you want to look them up, it's 583 00:45:46,319 --> 00:45:54,400 Ogdensburg's Administrative Regulations AR17G7.3. 584 00:45:51,839 --> 00:46:00,720 And I'm going to read that to everybody. Any person making personal impertinent 585 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:04,640 or slanderous remarks or who shall become boisterous while addressing the 586 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:09,200 council may be requested to leave the meeting and may be forth with by the 587 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:14,319 presiding officer barred from further audience before the council. Anybody 588 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:19,680 here can say whatever they want about me. Criticize my work, my record, my 589 00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:24,400 judgment, all of that's fair game, and I accept it. Don't always like it, but I 590 00:46:21,359 --> 00:46:29,920 accept it. Um, but leave my family and the family of other public servants out 591 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:34,800 of the discussion. Basic decency ask that anyone addressing this council 592 00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:39,760 treat everyone else like a human being. If somebody in the audience doesn't want 593 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:45,839 to extend me that courtesy, that's your choice to do. But I demand that it be 594 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:52,000 extended to my family and the family of every public servant. They didn't sign 595 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:58,480 up for this. Thank you. >> Uh thank you father. Let just me make 596 00:46:54,240 --> 00:47:04,240 just an initial comment response. Um uh obviously I think on council 597 00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:10,160 felt that the comments uh at the speaker's conclusion last meeting 598 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:18,240 inappropriate, strongly inappropriate. Um, and it was my failure to gather her 599 00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:22,960 to recognize that at that time um that I think um caused some cause some within 600 00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:30,000 the city manager and his family and I can I respect that. So um I think 601 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:34,480 overall the court council meetings has been a little bit more professional 602 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:40,880 during the course of the three years this council's been together. Um but I 603 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:46,079 did fail last week for that. I apologize uh you know and I will just continue as 604 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:54,000 best I can uh in chairing these meetings um to um uh ask speakers to uh respect 605 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:58,560 the uh guidelines that are provided to them on the back of the agenda for every 606 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:03,680 council meeting as required in the administrative regulations. 607 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:06,680 Um, with that say to make a comment on this. 608 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:18,720 Okay. Um, next I'd like to ask the city manager to address the public with 609 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:22,720 regards to the operational changes being at the fire department. 610 00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:26,720 » Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I've listened carefully tonight to the 611 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:30,319 statements uh made by the union and their representatives and I think the 612 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:35,440 public deserves a little bit greater context here. I want to make clear that 613 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:39,599 we're not attacking the fire department. I know council does and I know I do 614 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:44,720 value the work that they do and the work that every uh member of the city 615 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:49,599 employment team does. And this is not about safety. This is about outdated 616 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:53,760 contract language that generates unnecessary overtime year after year 617 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:59,520 after year. Let me explain the situation. The union contract allows two 618 00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:05,599 firefighters to take vacation on the same shift on the same day. And there is 619 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:11,440 an expired contract provision that required a minimum of five on duty. 620 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:16,079 That was all fine, well, and good when we had seven or eight firefighters 621 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:21,760 assigned to a shift. But full staffing now is six. So whenever there are two 622 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:27,839 firefighters on vacation at the same time, the city prior to the expiration 623 00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:33,200 of the contract was required to call in a fifth firefighter and that person had 624 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:37,200 to come in on overtime. That cost taxpayers roughly a quarter of a million 625 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:42,240 dollars a year. The five person minimum expired in 2025. 626 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:48,079 The city is no longer obligated to bring in a fifth firefighter when there are 627 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:52,480 only four on shift. Uh going forward, this is what the 628 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:57,599 policy will be, right? Every shift has six firefighters assigned to it. When 629 00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:02,000 one firefighter is off on vacation, that leaves five to fill the shifts. We will 630 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:06,000 staff with five. When there are two firefighters on vacation at the same 631 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:10,640 time, that will leave four and we will staff with four. I understand the union 632 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:17,200 objects for, but there's a very simple fix and one that literally comes from 633 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:22,000 the union itself. In 2020, the union itself proposed limiting vacation leave 634 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:27,760 to one firefighter off at a time. In a letter dated December 9th, 2020, I have 635 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:31,359 that letter right here. The union said allotting two off together would 636 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:35,040 generate, and I quote this, generate considerable overtime. And they put a 637 00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:38,839 number to it. It's not my number. It's their number. $196,227. 638 00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:45,440 Six years later, that number is a little bit higher. We're calling it around a 639 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:49,920 quarter of a million dollars. So, I have a very simple question and one that 640 00:50:47,359 --> 00:50:55,359 taxpayers should be asking. Why is the union's own 2020 solution no longer 641 00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:59,760 acceptable in 2026? The city is not contemplating layoffs or 642 00:50:57,359 --> 00:51:04,960 staffing cuts. There's no cuts to vacation. Every firefighter still gets 643 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:10,319 two cycles of 28- day vacations. Two cycles of 28-day vacations. The city is 644 00:51:08,319 --> 00:51:14,800 simply trying to preserve that benefit and the services that go along with it 645 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:20,960 without costing taxpayers a quarter of a million dollars every year. 646 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:25,280 Firefighters can keep their vacation. Taxpayers can save a quarter of a 647 00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:29,079 million dollars and we can still have five on a shift. 648 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:36,640 So there's been a lot of talk from the union and from others about unsafe 649 00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:39,520 operational changes. I [snorts] want to point out that there are similar 650 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:44,000 communities, those that are similar in size to Aguinsburg and similar 651 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:48,240 demographics that run with four, but we should have that conversation. 652 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:53,760 We talk about increasing calls, but let's talk about those calls in detail. 653 00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:59,280 More than 90% of those calls are EMS calls. And when we get an EMS 654 00:51:56,319 --> 00:52:04,960 call, we send two firefighters to answer those calls, not four or five. Structure 655 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:09,280 fires are fewer and farther between as time goes on. Yes, structure fires 656 00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:14,880 require more firefighters. There's no question about that. But those instances 657 00:52:11,839 --> 00:52:20,720 are rare. As a matter of fact, in 2025, there were three structure fires that 658 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:25,280 recorded property losses. So if you want to average that out, that's a structure 659 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:30,480 fire with property loss one every roughly 120 days. Four versus five on 660 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:33,480 staff only matters in those circumstances. 661 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:41,680 The public should be aware that in a structure fire, five is probably not 662 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:45,920 enough to proactively fight a fire. That's why we call everybody in. When 663 00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:50,000 there's a structure fire, there's an all call out. And that's why we call for 664 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:54,960 mutual aid for structure fires. So we have enough manpower to make sure we can 665 00:52:52,319 --> 00:52:59,760 fight the fire. This isn't about forcing staff down to four. It's not what it's 666 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:04,960 about. This is about no longer paying overtime when there is a simple common 667 00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:09,760 sense solution to all of this. I'm not saying safety doesn't matter. But before 668 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:14,319 spending $250,000 a year on an expired contract provision, we owe taxpayers a 669 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:17,599 conversation. And this is again not about 670 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:22,960 disrespecting firefighters or putting them in more danger just to save a buck. 671 00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:28,079 This is a proposal reasonably balanced between safety, staffing, and what 672 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:32,000 taxpayers can afford. And the ironic part of all this is the solution is 673 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:36,880 already on the table. It's the union solution from 2020. One fighter fighter 674 00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:41,920 off at a time, not two. If it was reasonable then, it's reasonable now. 675 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:46,319 Um, and just as an aside, Mr. Santiago said the union is ready to negotiate any 676 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:53,680 time. I'll be in my office before 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. I'll clear my schedule. 677 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:58,880 Thank you. Uh and and mayor, I I I see that in many of the uh union statements 678 00:53:56,559 --> 00:54:03,280 here, uh the chief was called out and and I think it might be appropriate to 679 00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:05,760 allow him to at least answer some of those call outs. 680 00:54:05,359 --> 00:54:10,160 Be >> before you do that, chief. Okay. Just 681 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:15,040 just in followup to the city manager's comments, um the day after the city 682 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:20,960 manager informed union leadership about these changes in operations, 683 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:26,160 um city council received a letter from their union president, Jacob Thornton, 684 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:32,160 uh in which uh he informed council of these changes, uh expressed the union's 685 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:36,960 extreme unhappiness and strong opposition to these changes, uh 686 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:41,359 requested city council intervention to try to persuade the city manager to 687 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:47,119 reverse direction. So, subsequently on August 6th, um on 688 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:51,520 behalf of city council, I submitted a letter to President Thornton um which 689 00:54:49,839 --> 00:54:54,920 I'm going to read to the in the record at this time. 690 00:54:55,119 --> 00:55:03,680 President Thornon, in response to your email, the city council received July 29 691 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:07,359 and your July 31 text to city council. Please be advised, city council 692 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:11,680 continues to fully support the operational changes communicated to you 693 00:55:09,359 --> 00:55:16,240 by city manager Fonda Crooks on July 20th. 694 00:55:13,839 --> 00:55:21,440 I believe city government's position in this matter focuses on affordable public 695 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:25,440 safety. We seek resources required to maintain 696 00:55:23,839 --> 00:55:30,400 current level of staffing within the Augsburg Fire Department while dealing 697 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:35,040 with other budgetary challenges and trying to maintain the goal of a modest 698 00:55:32,319 --> 00:55:40,319 reduction in the city property tax levy for the third year in a row in 2027. 699 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:44,720 A reduction in the number of firefighters on vacation each shift from 700 00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:50,480 two to one results in savings of more than $200,000 in overtime expense 701 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:54,240 annually for fire department operations. This does not result in a reduction in 702 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:59,280 the number of firefighters in the department. It does not reduce the prior 703 00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:04,079 staffing minimum of five per shift. It does not reduce the number of annual 704 00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:08,079 vacation days for each firefighter. We believe this resolves the safety 705 00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:13,520 concerns outlined in your communications to city council. 706 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:17,839 It is my understanding local 1799 previously suggested this very approach 707 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:24,079 as a means of helping the city reduce cost during challenging financial times. 708 00:56:21,359 --> 00:56:28,880 If that is correct, I respectfully encourage the union to revisit this 709 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:34,400 proposal since the city continues to face challenging financial times. I 710 00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:39,920 believe citizens would welcome the positive impact on the city budget 711 00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:44,559 should union agree to this compromise. This action benefits the long-term 712 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:48,640 interest of operations within the fire department. 713 00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:52,640 City council and management team remain committed to working collaboratively 714 00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:57,680 with local 1799 to reach a fair and sustainable agreement. We remain hopeful 715 00:56:55,520 --> 00:57:02,400 the union will join us in implementing a solution that benefits firefighters, 716 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:07,200 taxpayers, and the community at large. Accordingly, the city council encourages 717 00:57:04,799 --> 00:57:12,880 local 1799 leadership to meet with the city manager to continue discussing this 718 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:17,760 proposal and to work toward a mutually acceptable resolution. Thank you. 719 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:22,480 » Right. So, with that, I'll invite the the uh the chief chief stall to the 720 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,480 podium if you'd like to make any comments. 721 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:33,920 » Good evening. Um just here because apparently it's a popular one tonight. 722 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:38,240 Uh just a couple things. I just want to make the public and council and the fire 723 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:41,200 behind me aware that I have no authority over the staffing at the fire 724 00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:45,359 department. This is determined by the city manager and the governing body. 725 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:49,760 However, my stance has always been five firefighters. I've said this to this 726 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:54,160 council on numerous occasions. Um both in executive session and publicly. City 727 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:58,240 manager is aware of it. Contrary to what some of the outside representatives are 728 00:57:56,079 --> 00:58:01,599 saying, um it's always been my stance at the fire department with the exception 729 00:57:59,839 --> 00:58:06,400 of approximately 20 years ago when the staffing level was reduced to 730 00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:09,920 reducing us from six to five. I was standing at the podium back then as 731 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:14,160 union president was fighting for six. Ultimately, that was collectively 732 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:20,240 negotiated to go to five. As far as a new SOP that I put in place, um it 733 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:26,400 wasn't a new SOP. I put it into writing um to prepare to establish my 734 00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:30,480 expectations as for firefighters tactics if and when staffing levels are below 735 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:35,680 what I believe is necessary to follow OSHA 1910. This SOP which previously was 736 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:39,040 not in writing has always been the standard we have followed for all of my 737 00:58:37,359 --> 00:58:44,559 career. We have followed for all of my career 738 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:49,680 the greater possibility of responding initially to a structure fire with less 739 00:58:47,119 --> 00:58:55,440 than five as a result of the newly imposed minimum staffing during 740 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:59,680 vacation. I felt it imperative to put this in writing to protect all 741 00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:03,839 individuals rather than just verbally. For the record, my stance on minimum 742 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:08,319 staffing has been five as I just stated. That hasn't changed. It hasn't wavered. 743 00:59:06,210 --> 00:59:13,440 [clears throat] The council, the central syn, sorry, city manager and the union 744 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:18,079 are all aware of that. All I can do is give my recommendation to assist with 745 00:59:15,839 --> 00:59:21,599 the decision process. It is my obligation 746 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:25,280 to ensure the safety of the firefighters and the citizens while providing the 747 00:59:23,839 --> 00:59:30,319 best possible service to the city of Agensburg. I am responsible to do so 748 00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:33,880 with whatever resources that are provided to me. 749 00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:44,079 With that being said, my dedication and accomplishments for 750 00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:48,131 the past 26 years for this department in the city of Augensburg are well 751 00:59:45,359 --> 00:59:50,151 documented and easily proven. [clears throat] 752 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:58,400 And essentially as the middleman, I will not allow myself to become a public pawn 753 00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:03,200 or a scapegoat. I will not be bullied into changing my opinion on my staffing 754 01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:06,559 levels, nor will I be bullied into going against my supervisor. What I will do is 755 01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:11,440 continue to lead this department by providing the highest level of safety 756 01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:16,160 and service to all with the means I am given. I will remain committed to assist 757 01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:21,040 with accomplishing a collective resolution to this current situation. 758 01:00:19,599 --> 01:00:27,359 Are there any questions, >> questions or comments for the chief? 759 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:32,880 I'd just like to um make sure I'm understanding this. I think most of us 760 01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:36,799 agree that five is optimal and it sounds after listening to everything that 761 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:41,599 that's attainable as long as only one firefighter is on vacation at a time. 762 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:46,079 So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the real request of the firefighter 763 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:50,480 union is to have the prerogative to allow two firefighters to be on vacation 764 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:55,119 at the same time. Am I understanding that correctly? 765 01:00:52,640 --> 01:01:00,000 I believe so. >> So that's the real issue just so that 766 01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:03,000 we're know what really addressing. >> Correct. 767 01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,119 » I'm sorry. 768 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:19,440 » Nothing. >> Anybody else? I just want to thank the 769 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:23,839 chief. Um, you have been extraordinary in all of your service to us and I 770 01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:27,520 appreciate everything you do and I know it's a tough position that you're in. 771 01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:32,640 So, thank you. >> Yes, I would like to echo that degree of 772 01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:36,280 professionalism is to be respected. So, thank you very much. 773 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:44,440 Um, any other discussion on councel um on this issue? 774 01:01:45,359 --> 01:01:49,760 » All right. Any other items for discussion? 775 01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:53,920 » I have one your honor, please. Um, I received a text recently from a citizen 776 01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:57,920 and I'm going to read parts of that to you. Um, 777 01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:02,079 reaching out to you as a city counselor. If T-Rex ever comes up in a meeting, 778 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:06,640 please let them know the Bounce Houses Arts and Crafts program this summer was 779 01:02:04,079 --> 01:02:12,160 amazing. More importantly, the staff that they had working were phenomenal. 780 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:15,119 It's rare to see an entire group so involved with kids. There's typically 781 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:19,440 one or two that are always on their phones, etc. This group did not do that. 782 01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:24,559 They were always paying attention to the kids, and again, they were amazing. 783 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:28,319 Next, I want to mention Harrison. were uh the girls do most of the camps and 784 01:02:26,319 --> 01:02:32,400 they are usually separate sessions. I saw Harrison at each session of every 785 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:39,200 camp checking on water and other needs. It was a lot better um this year and we 786 01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:43,040 really do appreciate all his work and they just wanted to say thank you to 787 01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:47,760 that and they don't typically commend people but this time this person felt 788 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:51,440 that they needed to say that the recck department went above and beyond any 789 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:57,040 expectations they had. So if you pass that on I'd appreciate it. Good news to 790 01:02:54,079 --> 01:03:01,160 hear. Thank you for sharing. >> Any other items for discussion? 791 01:03:01,599 --> 01:03:07,920 I do have one and that's to give an update to the public with regards to the 792 01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:14,559 uh second local planning committee meeting for the DRRi that was held last 793 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:19,599 Wednesday. Um at last Wednesday, the vision statement for the uh Agnesburg 794 01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:23,760 downtown revitalization initiative was established. Uh, it was developed with 795 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:28,000 input from the community and committee members. But I'd like to read that 796 01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:32,720 vision statement. Downtown Agensburg will emerge as a 797 01:03:30,319 --> 01:03:36,799 dynamic civic and cultural district that celebrates the city's historic 798 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:41,440 waterfront heritage and unique setting along the St. Lawrence and Ashwagotchi 799 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:47,200 rivers while fostering community life, creativity, and economic opportunity 800 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:51,440 by revitalizing key public spaces and underused properties, supporting 801 01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:55,920 sustainable local businesses and the arts that can excel in every season, 802 01:03:54,400 --> 01:04:00,559 strengthening connections to the waterfront, and enhancing walkability 803 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:04,640 and housing options. Agensburg will offer a vibrant, inclusive environment 804 01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:09,039 where residents thrive, visitors are inspired, and community life flourishes 805 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:14,960 year round. The goals and strategies established by 806 01:04:11,599 --> 01:04:20,559 the committee were four. First, preserve and reinvest in historic downtown. 807 01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:25,760 Second, create a walkable and connected downtown. Third, grow local businesses 808 01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:30,640 and activate private properties. And four, strengthen community life and 809 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:35,599 culture. uh uh the vision statement, the goals and their bullet points are 810 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:38,720 available at the city's website and I would encourage uh anyone interested in 811 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:42,640 the process to look at those but particularly anyone who's interested in 812 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:46,640 submitting a a proposal for the committee's consideration 813 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:50,880 because when the committee goes to score the uh the proposals that are made to 814 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:55,760 it, it's going to score them based on their ability to achieve the goals and 815 01:04:52,960 --> 01:05:02,240 strategies that are listed. So, it's vital for for those uh developers uh and 816 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:08,000 businesses and entities looking uh to submit a DRRI application to read this, 817 01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:12,039 understand it, and work these this information into your proposal. 818 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:18,359 Any other items for discussion? 819 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:23,680 All right. So, that brings us to citizen participation. At this time, if anyone 820 01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:27,425 attending in person would like to address council, please come down to the 821 01:05:25,359 --> 01:05:29,445 podium and we'll have two minutes [clears throat] 822 01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:42,400 for Augsburg. Uh the question was asked, I just wanted to bring up uh they 823 01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:46,400 thought the stumbling block was the request of the fire department for 824 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:50,480 having two people on vacation. That is not a request. That's a contractually 825 01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:54,400 obligated negotiated contract. That was not a simple question that's in our 826 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:59,599 contract. And a little bit of background on that. It was not a problem when we 827 01:05:56,559 --> 01:06:04,720 had 28 firemen, but prior to the 2025 contract, we negotiated if the city so 828 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:08,880 choose through attrition could draw lower our Manning by four positions. 829 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:13,680 They chose to do that and took the advantage of the money savings there. 830 01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:17,440 And now we've forgot about that. now the vacations are a problem and they don't 831 01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:20,640 want to work to negotiate them out or go through the legal practice to make that 832 01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:24,960 determination. We don't think that's fair. 833 01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:27,680 Um with we we said it in the past, some of you were here, some of you weren't. 834 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:31,520 We waved hazard pay. We're not greedy. We waved hazard pay to the tune of 835 01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:36,240 $75,000. We were thanked in this council for that. We wanted Manning. We didn't 836 01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:40,400 want the hazard pay. Um there was no no attempt to my 837 01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:43,359 knowledge we asked if there was a safer grant attempted to pay for. If you would 838 01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:46,960 have got a safer grant, you could have hired four people. It would have taken 839 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:49,920 care of this vacation problem and we wouldn't have to pay for this overtime 840 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,799 for the second set of vacations. Maybe this could have been settled in 841 01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:56,480 negotiations. All we asked is let it go through the 842 01:06:54,319 --> 01:07:00,160 process. Don't affect our daily five person minimum. We've got a bunch of 843 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:04,480 people 13 to 14 people with less than two to three years experience. Some have 844 01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:07,839 not been to a major fire yet. and the way overtime works or shift schedules, 845 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:11,599 you could end up with one officer and three of those people on a shift 846 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:16,079 responding to in a completely new way on a decision that was made last Wednesday 847 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:19,039 telling us how we are going to run. I I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people 848 01:07:17,359 --> 01:07:26,000 back here that are concerned about their safety and how they're going to respond. 849 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:30,799 Uh what else did I have? I do commend you for calling the chief 850 01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:34,559 up and giving his his say. He clearly supports five. since it's the safest 851 01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:40,720 operational for department. Thank you for letting him do that. Um we also when 852 01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:45,359 we when we filed for out of title pay um for the officers we come in we we had we 853 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:49,599 could have asked for 45 days in back pay because we were working out of title for 854 01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:52,960 over a year and a half I believe we waved that and took it currently going 855 01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:58,440 forward. We're not greedy. We just want we just want what's fair. Thank you. 856 01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,440 » Thank you Scott. 857 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:12,079 Hi, Dan Jordy. Uh, one last thing that, uh, I believe was pointed out by the 858 01:08:10,079 --> 01:08:17,359 manager that there were three serious fires in the last year. Um, I would 859 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:22,319 encourage him to look back at the numbers and see how many minor fires 860 01:08:19,440 --> 01:08:28,640 that did not become major fires occurred last year and if going in because you 861 01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:33,279 had two in two out allowed those fires to be put out before you lost property 862 01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:36,440 or life. Thank you. >> Thank you. 863 01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:49,120 Hi, my name is Aaron Charlton. I'm a taxpayer, firefighter, and union 864 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:54,080 officer. Um, I just want to comment on some of the things that Mr. Cronis said. 865 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:58,159 Um, when he says that we have 28 days off, 15 of those days are already days 866 01:08:56,319 --> 01:09:02,799 that we already have off. We're not asking for any more than our 15 days 867 01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:10,799 that we don't are scheduled to work. Um, so it's actually only like 28 - 15. So 868 01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:14,480 13 days we're asking for and yes, we don't want to have those days in January 869 01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:22,239 and February. That's not too much to ask. Uh, as far as us suggesting the one 870 01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:25,199 man off, we did uh offer that up. We offered that up when we were dealing 871 01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:30,960 with Steve Jelly, Mike Fitz, Kelly Skellyy, and all that crew. Um, first 872 01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:36,400 meeting with Mr. Cronis, he stated he was not Steve Jelly. 873 01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:40,480 Um, so I don't know why we're still talking about that, but uh, as far as 874 01:09:38,799 --> 01:09:45,679 the chief talking, I'd like to say thank you, chief. Um, 875 01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:50,880 he's he's the he's the representative of the, uh, Augsburg Fire Department 876 01:09:47,679 --> 01:09:55,360 station. He runs it. If he's suggesting five, I don't think a group of guys that 877 01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:58,239 know nothing about orang women, sorry, that know nothing about firefighting 878 01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:04,719 should go against him. I don't know. Well, maybe I'm wrong, but 879 01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:08,520 » thank you, Aaron. Anyone else in chambers? 880 01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:15,199 Now, if anyone attending remotely would like to address council, please use a 881 01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:20,840 raise hand feature. City clerk will recognize one person at a time, and 882 01:10:17,199 --> 01:10:20,840 you'll have two minutes. 883 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:33,800 I do not see any hands raised. M. >> Right. So, we have resolutions to go to 884 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,800 executive session 885 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:41,040 whereas city manager find the cronis requested executive session with members 886 01:10:38,719 --> 01:10:45,760 of the Oxford city council to discuss collect collective negotiations pursuant 887 01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:49,120 to article 14 of civil service law. And whereas New York state open meetings law 888 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:53,199 permits city council to adjourn to executive session for such purpose. Now 889 01:10:51,679 --> 01:10:57,280 therefore, be it resolved that city council adjourn to executive session to 890 01:10:55,120 --> 01:11:01,600 discuss collective negotiations pursuant to article 14 of civil service law and 891 01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:05,440 be it further resolved that any action resulting from this executive session 892 01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:11,080 shall be taken in open session. I so move 893 01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,080 to please call the rule. 894 01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:15,360 » Sorry. Councelor Silly, >> yes. 895 01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:18,000 » Councelor Lefay, >> yes. 896 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:21,120 » Councelor Scamperly, I'm sorry. Councelor Stevenson, 897 01:11:19,679 --> 01:11:22,400 » yes. Councelor Chaup, >> yes. 898 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,600 » Councelor Trim, >> yes. 899 01:11:22,719 --> 01:11:24,800 » Mayor Chulie, >> yes. 900 01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:29,440 » Approve. >> And I will note that the council will be 901 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:33,239 inviting uh fire chief st to join us in that exact session. 902 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,800 » Next, 903 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:43,600 uh where city manager Father Cronis requests an executive session with 904 01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:47,600 members of the iceberg city council to discuss proposed pending or current 905 01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:51,120 litigation. And whereas new state open meetings law permit city council to 906 01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:55,040 adjourn to executive session for such purpose. Now therefore be it resolved 907 01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:58,880 that city council adjourn to executive session to discuss proposed pending your 908 01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:02,640 current litigation. Be it further resolved that any action resulting from 909 01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:07,280 this executive session shall be taken in open session. So 910 01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:08,880 » second. >> Councelor Lefay. 911 01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:10,400 » Yes. >> Councelor Stevenson. 912 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,760 » Yes. >> Councelor Tbo. 913 01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:12,960 » Yes. >> Councelor Trim. 914 01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:14,239 » Yes. >> Mayor Tulie. 915 01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,800 » Yes. >> Councelor Silly. 916 01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:20,719 » Yes. approved. >> Right. Resolution to object to executive 917 01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:25,199 session where a city manager, Father Cronis, request an executive session 918 01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:28,560 with members of the Oxford City Council to discuss matters leading to the 919 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:32,239 appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, 920 01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:36,159 dismissal, or removal of a particular person or corporation. 921 01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:39,840 And whereas New York State meetings law permit city council to adjourn to 922 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:44,000 executive session for such purpose. Now therefore be it resolved that city 923 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:46,960 council adjourn to executive session to discuss matters leading to the 924 01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,560 appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, 925 01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:54,960 dismissal or removal of a particular person or corporation be further 926 01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:58,800 resolved that any action resulting from this executive session shall be taken 927 01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:02,239 session. >> Second, 928 01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,679 please call. >> Councelor Stevenson, 929 01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:05,040 » yes. >> Councelor Tibo, 930 01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,239 » yes. >> Councelor Trim, 931 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:07,520 » yes. >> Mayor Tulie, 932 01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:10,080 » yes. >> Councelor Silly, 933 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,040 » yes. Councelor Lefay. >> Yes. 934 01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:14,880 » Approved. >> And we do not anticipate any action 935 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:19,600 following these executive sessions. So I'll make a motion to adjurnn upon 936 01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:24,000 completion of executive session. Is there a second? Second. 937 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:28,840 » All in favor? I. So the meeting will be adjourned for the completion of 938 01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:28,840 executive sessions.