[10:24] Good morning everyone. Um
11:30. This is the August 20th meeting
[10:31] of the historic Ohio City Design Review
Advisory Committee. So I will uh just go
[10:36] through our preamble. Then we'll have uh
call the meeting to order and do a roll
[10:41] call and then get into the agenda.
Um, so to go through the virtual meeting
[10:46] regulations and procedures, actions
during the meeting will be taken by roll
[10:50] call vote. Recuseable due to a conflict
of interest should be stated for the
[10:53] record prior to the start of any
presentation. The recused committee
[10:56] member will then leave the meeting for
the duration of the case discussion. The
[11:00] chair will call the meeting to order and
ask for a roll call of the committee.
[11:03] The administrator will introduce the
first project. The meeting will then be
[11:07] turned over to the applicant to proceed
through their presentation. Each
[11:10] presentation should be completed prior
to questions and comments from the
[11:13] committee. And once the presentation is
concluded, the administrator will
[11:17] provide background information and read
any received public comments. Uh the
[11:21] committee will then begin deliberations
and project review. Please use the
[11:25] raised hand feature if you'd like to
speak. After deliberations and review
[11:28] concludes, the committee will render its
recommendation and/or motion. The
[11:32] applicant may leave the meeting after
their project review is complete. All
[11:36] projects will follow the same format
until all projects are heard by the
[11:38] committee. Once all projects are heard,
the chair will call for any
[11:41] committee/administrator reports. And
after all reports have been heard, the
[11:45] chair will adjourn the meeting.
Regarding community comments, any and
[11:50] all community members may provide their
written comments, thoughts, or questions
[11:52] regarding projects presented to the
committee. Community members may also
[11:56] telephone their comments or questions to
the administrator. All comments,
[12:00] thoughts, or questions must be submitted
to the committee administrator no later
[12:03] than 48 hours prior to the start of the
meeting. Public comment received after
[12:07] the deadline will not be heard by the
committee. Public comment will be
[12:11] collected by Landmark staff and sent to
the committee members for review prior
[12:15] to the scheduled meeting. Landmark staff
will summarize the received comments
[12:19] during the meeting. The applicant of the
project is under no obligation to answer
[12:22] any community questions. Community
members are invited to attend the design
[12:27] review advisory committee meetings, but
there will be no open public comment
[12:30] period. Regarding design review
guidelines, all projects are being
[12:34] reviewed using the Secretary of the
Interior Standards for Rehabilitation
[12:38] and are being considered for the
issuance of a certificate of
[12:40] appropriateness. All projects are
considered on a case-by case basis.
[12:44] Presentations were received and
distributed to committee members for
[12:47] review prior to the scheduled meeting.
Changes to the presentation after
[12:51] confirmation of receipt by Landmark
staff are not shown here today. The
[12:55] Historic Ohio City Design Review
Advisory Committee makes recommendations
[12:59] to the Cleveland Landmarks Commission.
These recommendations are not final
[13:02] actions. Depending on the scope of the
project, submissions may be approved
[13:07] administratively or will need to be
reviewed by the Cleveland Landmarks
[13:10] Commission. If that's the case, projects
will be scheduled the next available
[13:14] commission meeting after an action is
taken. As always, we have the Secretary
[13:18] of the Interior standards here available
for uh reference if anyone needs me to
[13:22] pull those up at a later point during
the meeting.
[13:26] Um, so with that,
I'm not seeing
[13:34] our chairwoman here. Um,
it looks like we may be short on forum.
[13:48] Yeah, it looks like we um
don't have quorum at this point. Um,
[13:56] but I guess in the interest of of moving
projects along, um, I think most of our
[14:01] projects today were, uh, we'll need to
go to the the Landmarks Commission for a
[14:05] variety of issues anyway. So, um, uh,
Margaret, do you mind stepping in as
[14:11] chair?
>> Sure thing.
[14:15] » All right. Thank you. And I apologize,
my uh camera isn't working. whenever I
[14:19] go from
move my computer around and plug things
[14:23] back in, they never seem to work. So,
you guys luck out today. Um, but uh,
[14:28] yeah, in the interest of moving things
along, I think we should proceed to the
[14:31] first case, which is case HOC26-32
at 1701 West 25th Street, uh, murals
[14:38] across the city public art.
here.
[14:43] » Should we call the roll at this point
before the presenter or do you want to
[14:48] wait till we have quorum?
>> Um I mean we could we could call it now
[14:54] and then um I guess just make notes or
note if we end up having form. It looks
[15:00] like Nia just showed up. Um
yeah, let's let's go ahead and call
[15:06] roll.
>> Okay. And if Nia is here, I'll
[15:10] relinquish the position of chair back to
her when she's ready.
[15:14] » Yes. Thanks. Sorry, guys. I'm very back
to back today, so I'm here.
[15:19] » Perfect.
[15:32] Dan, do you want to call the role?
[15:36] Oh.
[15:40] think we've lost Dan.
[15:44] » Hi. Sorry about that. I I got a
notification that I had a network issue.
[15:49] So, um hopefully I didn't miss too much.
Um
[15:54] yeah, I was just starting to to try and
call a roll. Um Miss Anderson
[16:01] » here and Miss Flary,
Mr. Fondorf,
[16:09] Miss Lamb
>> here,
[16:12] » Mr. Miller,
Miss Myers,
[16:18] Mr. Persons,
[16:22] and Miss Marinucci
>> here.
[16:26] » India. Um, and Mr. Franorf.
[16:34] All right. Um we'll we'll thank you
Margaret. We'll turn things over to uh
[16:39] Miss Marinucci now. Um we are still one
member short on quorum but I think in
[16:44] the interest of um moving things along
we should proceed through this at least
[16:49] through the first project. Um since it's
public art it will be going to the
[16:52] landmarks commission anyway. So you guys
can still provide feedback on it and if
[16:56] we end up with forum um I can just make
a note when when the discussion starts
[17:01] if we end up with the uh the final
number. So um so yeah first office case
[17:08] HC26-32
1701 West 25th Street murals across the
[17:13] city um as mention I think we have
Courtney Vargo here and then Tara Petus
[17:21] from the city's public art coordinator
here. So, um, and Alex from, uh,
[17:28] downtown Cleveland or sorry,
destination Cleveland. Um, but yeah,
[17:34] I'll let you guys, uh, go ahead and go
through your presentation. Just let me
[17:37] know when you'd like me to advance the
slides.
[17:39] » Okay. Thank you.
[17:47] » Sorry, I can't see see the slides.
Should I be able to see the slides?
[17:53] Oh, I sorry. I think when I got kicked
off the um network, [clears throat] it
[17:57] stopped sharing my screen. Let me try.
Is that better?
[17:59] » There you go.
>> Okay. All right. I apologize.
[18:02] » No, no worries at all. Well, good
morning everybody. My name is Courtney
[18:05] Vargo. I'm uh with Destination
Cleveland. And what I have for you all
[18:08] today um as previously mentioned is a
work of public art. This is on uh 1701
[18:13] West 25th Street. Very approximate to
the future Irishtown Ben site. Um and
[18:18] CHA's uh welcome center there on 25th
Street. Next slide, please.
[18:24] Um so here are some previous examples of
a project that we call murals across the
[18:29] city. This project has been going on for
three years now and we've um
[18:33] successfully installed completed um nine
works of original public art
[18:38] commissioned by local artists in a
myriad of different um Cleveland
[18:42] neighborhoods. Pictured here, these are
the murals from our first year. Um just
[18:47] kind of throwing this in here because
the first year we did do all what you
[18:50] think of as a traditional mural, right?
So paint on brick. Um so just examples
[18:54] from the first year, paint on brick. The
next slide
[18:58] um shows our murals from last year which
uh we we changed uh switch up our
[19:04] process a little bit to use a heat
applied vinyl product.
[19:08] Um did this for several reasons. Chief
among them, you know, the material is is
[19:13] a bit kinder to to the brick. Um it can
be repaired very easily. It just is
[19:19] again it's kind of like heat shrunk onto
the building. Um building owners like
[19:23] this, the city tends to like it. It's a
similar lifespan to a painted mural.
[19:27] Obviously dependent on sun exposure and
things of that sort, but um these are
[19:32] our murals last year. All heat applied
vinyl. We were able to kind of work
[19:35] around some of the obstructions on those
buildings
[19:38] um pretty successfully there. I don't
know if there's anything else I want to
[19:41] mention there. Yep, this is great. So,
this is again just a material slide
[19:44] showing another example of kind of a
process photo how that gets applied.
[19:49] Um, we also like this material because
it does open us up to artists that are
[19:54] not just skilled in painting large scale
m scale murals, right? That's kind of a
[19:59] smaller subset of people. Um, so this is
really great because it opens this up to
[20:03] almost anybody who can, you know,
digitally design a mural and then it
[20:06] gets large format printed and heat
applied. Um, and then repair is, you
[20:11] know, really easy. It's just kind of
removal by reheating. So if a single
[20:15] section gets damaged, we're able just to
replace it section by section. Next
[20:19] slide.
And here's a little bit more about our
[20:24] process. So um we start out by releasing
a call for artists. We ask for any local
[20:28] artists that would like to share their
work with us um to do so. We then
[20:33] evaluate those applications and kind of
pair it down so that we can then give
[20:37] building owners that we're working with
a smaller rate. You know, we we've
[20:40] gotten 100 plus applicants from this
project in years past. This year I
[20:43] believe it was around 70. So um just
kind of whittling down that number. Um
[20:47] we got to about 10 artists that we put
in front of building owners um and kind
[20:52] of did sort of like a matchmaking
process there.
[20:55] Artists then create a design once
they're chosen for you know the specific
[21:00] wall um using a destination Cleveland
brand phrase and then we kind of share
[21:04] that out with you all. That's where
we're at today. um you know in in kind
[21:10] of the the share out stage, city permits
and entitlement stage and then after
[21:14] that we work through install. Next slide
please.
[21:20] Here's a bit about our artist. Um Nigel
um he goes by days or days one. Um he's
[21:27] really a multid-disciplinary artist. I'd
be surprised if you haven't seen his
[21:30] work around town. So we're really
excited to bring some of his work um to
[21:34] this neighborhood in this specific
building. Next slide, please.
[21:40] And now we're going to go through some
context photos. So again, this is the
[21:43] CHA like welcome center. So we're on the
corner of Flint Franklin and West 25th
[21:48] Street. Um this is just out of view.
Here is again where the future Irishtown
[21:52] Ben Park is. Um you can see Ohio City
Farm there on the right hand side of
[21:57] your screen. And that orange block is
the wall that we're looking at, which I
[22:01] do kind of want to call out because some
of the context photos, I did my best,
[22:04] but some of the context photos can get
sort of confusing which wall we're
[22:07] working with. You see the buildings are
kind of like stacked there. Um, so just
[22:11] calling that out. Next slide, please.
[22:17] And we can kind of run through these.
Here's looking north. Downtown is sort
[22:20] of just out of view there.
Here's looking a little bit more towards
[22:25] down downtown, more to the northeast.
The wall is off to your right in this
[22:29] picture.
[22:34] Um, looking northeast. Again, this is
just kind of zoomed out. This this green
[22:38] rectangle is the wall we're looking at
here.
[22:43] Now, we're looking down West 25th
Street. I have that that wall xed out
[22:47] just so it's clear that's not the wall
we're um looking at today. And if if
[22:51] that's relevant um hard to see in this
photo, but there's actually a set of
[22:54] stairs there. install would be really
difficult and visibil visibility is a
[22:58] little bit more limited on this wall. So
if there's any curiosity that's why we
[23:01] didn't go for that one. Next slide
please.
[23:07] Some more context photos again. Um and
maybe now is a good time to call out
[23:11] just some of those obstructions. You can
kind of see um there's like a tree that
[23:16] was not you know anything that was
planted by CHA or otherwise it's just
[23:19] kind of one of those rogue um trees that
pop up. So that's a that's a discussion
[23:23] we've had with CHA. Um and you know that
would all get cleared out so installs
[23:29] very easy. Um yeah,
[23:36] here we are looking west down Franklin.
And then here is the facade at a better
[23:43] closer up view for you all.
[23:47] And here's our design. Um, so here's
kind of the design that we we'd uh love
[23:52] you to see today. This again is designed
by a local artist. We designed it in
[23:56] conjunction with CHA. They were you know
huge um you know obviously part of this
[24:01] project from the very beginning. They
really challenged us to um you know
[24:06] create a design that was all about
resilience and the city's resilience and
[24:11] the specific areas resilience. And so we
think DAZ did a really great job of
[24:14] incorporating all of that. It's
colorful. It's fun. You know, you see
[24:18] Riverview there in the back. Um, so
we'll see that rendered here in a couple
[24:23] slides onto the wall.
[24:28] And I just I just reduce transparency
here just so you could see um
[24:35] that I guess that there's no
obstructions on this wall. Normally I do
[24:37] that because there is an obstruction
actually, but so we'd be kind of in
[24:40] between um the vent there. So this is
about a 10 by 20 uh block. So 10 10 feet
[24:46] by 20 feet wide.
[24:51] Um and then just just another shout out
to um CHA. You know, they were huge
[24:55] institutional partner for us in this. Um
were so gracious that they, you know,
[25:00] allowed us to work with them on on
putting something on this wall. Again,
[25:03] really wanted something that celebrates
Cleveland's resiliency. Um and we
[25:07] actually worked with them to create a
custom sort of brand phrase that you see
[25:09] in there. um forged by pressure rooted
in resilience something of the likes. Um
[25:15] so very thankful to CHA. I don't know if
this is included in our application
[25:20] packet but we did also receive letters
of support from Councilman Davis and
[25:24] from Ohio City Inc. So many thanks for
that. Um
[25:29] and sorry I think the only other thing I
didn't mention and we can go back to the
[25:32] the rendering slide or the design slide
whichever you'd like. Um, just this
[25:36] wall, I don't have a picture of it, but
you can, you know, if you go back on
[25:39] street view, you can see that there was
previously public art on this wall. Um,
[25:43] so we're happy to kind of bring that
back as the neighborhood's kind of
[25:46] getting redefined with, you know,
Irishtown Ben and so many other
[25:49] projects. So, with that, I'll I don't
know, pass it over to Tara, open it up
[25:52] for comments. But, thank you all.
[25:56] » Thank you, Courtney. Um, I love this
artwork. I feel like it looks it it
[26:02] feels historic and fresh at the same
time with the artist rendering. Um and I
[26:07] do recall the previous public art that
was on that wall. I actually
[26:11] participated in that project um with CHA
and um an architect Malaz LG GMA and it
[26:19] was um wheat paste of various community
members from around the area. Um, I
[26:25] wanted to know about the dis if there's
going to be a descriptive plaque and
[26:30] where that would be. Um, and also I just
wanted to read an excerpt from uh,
[26:37] Councilman Davis's support letter. Um,
it says, "This project reflects the kind
[26:42] of visible community investment that
helps strengthen Cleveland's public
[26:45] spaces and reinforces the momentum
taking shape along the Kyhoga
[26:50] Riverfront. Riverview Tower and
Riverview Welcome Center have stood as
[26:53] longtime fixtures in the community. And
as Irish Town Band continues to develop
[26:58] into a once in a generation riverfront
park and destination, this project
[27:02] offers a way to further connect this
area to Cleveland's past, present, and f
[27:06] future. Destination Cleveland CHA and
local Cleveland Artist Days One have
[27:10] worked together to develop a Cleveland
positive mural that celebrates the
[27:14] city's resilience, creativity, and
pride. The proposed artwork would bring
[27:18] new energy to a highly visible site near
one of the city's most recognizable
[27:21] riverfront views while complementing
ongoing efforts to make the Irishtown
[27:26] bin area more welcoming, vibrant, and
connected.
[27:30] Um, so I just wanted to share that. Um,
but I also appreciate that the tagline
[27:39] um, destinations brand uh, line is less
prominent and the artwork is the hero.
[27:46] And I think that's very important with
integrating artwork into these
[27:49] neighborhoods is that the artwork be the
hero and just get less branding. So, I
[27:55] think this does a good job of keeping
that balance and I'm um, highly in
[28:00] support. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Tara. And I'll address just
[28:03] your comment about um the plaque. I
mean, I'd hesitate to call it a plaque,
[28:06] right? But um on these murals, we do
typically pair somewhere close to it.
[28:10] So, in this case, it would just be, you
know, below that vent. Um we'll also
[28:15] install a small QR code. I say small,
but you know, a QR code um where folks
[28:20] can scan, learn more about the project,
um you know, see the artist and read the
[28:24] artist statement. So, um in that way,
yes, we will we will have a way for
[28:28] folks to kind of find out more about
this work and why why it's here. Yep. I
[28:32] think that would be a great opportunity
too to maybe put the branding in the
[28:37] descriptive plaque or panels to describe
what's going on in the actual artwork.
[28:43] Thank you.
>> Thanks.
[28:53] » I just had one question. Um, does the
wall need any kind of maintenance or
[28:59] repair, any repointing or anything
before the mural goes on?
[29:03] » Um, no. To to our assessment, and we'll
obviously do a final sitewalk out there
[29:08] with CHA before install and with our
installer um that we use for these, but
[29:13] no, no tuck pointings needed. It's
really just more sight considerations in
[29:16] terms of that tree and it's it's, you
know, ground's a little uneven there.
[29:20] Um, so we just want to make sure it's a
good install site in other ways. We'll
[29:26] we'll certainly check the wall when we
go out, you know, final check. But at
[29:30] this this present time, we haven't
identified any need for tuck pointing.
[29:33] No.
>> Great.
[29:35] » Thanks.
>> What is the anticipated uh lifespan of
[29:41] this particular vinyl application?
>> That's a good question. We were just
[29:45] talking about that yesterday with our
installer and he was saying that he has
[29:49] um he started doing these out in Kent
State I think and Alex can correct me. I
[29:53] believe he said 12 years ago. So he has
some on Kent State that have been up for
[29:56] 12 years. Um the what what we tell
people when they ask that question is
[30:01] about 10 years, right? Uh of course
dependent on exposure of all things
[30:07] including sun and salt and wintertime
and whatnot. um but very comparable to
[30:11] traditional paint on brick uh if not
longer in some cases. So 8 to 10 years.
[30:18] » I'll also chime in that when we make the
agreements with the building owners um
[30:23] the the legal agreement that we have
with them to host the art, we write it
[30:27] up as a five-year contract with one-year
mutual renewals after that. So after the
[30:32] five-year term when we we sort of all
know this material looks good, we're
[30:36] checking in annually and saying, "Hey,
does it still look good? are you, you
[30:39] know, are you comfortable with it
staying? Um, so we've kind of kind of
[30:43] thought through that in the structure of
these agreements.
[30:47] » Okay.
[30:52] » I have nothing further. I don't know,
Dan. Do we have quum enough to make a
[30:56] motion or
>> how?
[31:02] Yeah, we do not have quorum at this
point. So, um I think you know if every
[31:06] if there's good consensus that uh nobody
has any issues with it, we will uh just
[31:11] move it along to its next step at the
Cleveland Networks Commission meeting
[31:15] next week.
>> Okay.
[31:17] » Um do you guys does the applicant feel
like you've gotten, you know, enough
[31:20] feedback? Are you guys happy or do you
have questions for the committee?
[31:24] » No, I mean I appreciate you all being
here today and having the opportunity to
[31:28] review it. Um we're certainly looking
forward to what Landmarks has to say.
[31:32] So, no, I don't have any questions. I
guess I can't speak for Alex, but no,
[31:35] I'm just appreciative of your your all's
time.
[31:38] » Great. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much. Have a good day.
[31:42] » Yep.
>> Thanks. You too.
[31:44] » Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[31:48] Now moving on to cases HOC 26-29
uh 30 and 31 at 3135
[31:59] 3201 3203 and 3221 Lraine Avenue uh the
Westside Catholic Center buildings
[32:06] they're proposing some window
replacements um believe we have Jim
[32:10] Warren and Andy Sakura here um to talk
us through there. So, if you guys want
[32:16] to start your presentation, just let me
know when you'd like me to advance the
[32:19] slides, please.
>> Hi, I'm Andy Zakuro with Window
[32:23] Universe. So, we're the um contractor on
doing the window replacement. Uh Jim um
[32:30] is kind of the leader over at Westside
Catholic Center for their maintenance
[32:33] projects. um they obtained some grant
money um to do these window replacements
[32:42] and that's kind of the trying to make
that stretch as far as possible to do
[32:48] improvements to um both workspace and um
shelter space that they provide uh is
[32:57] getting upgraded with um these
renovations. So, I'll I'll be I'll lead
[33:01] the conversation because I can kind of
speak to materials and exact install
[33:05] plans and uh Jim is on too, so he can
always, you know, Jim feel free to
[33:09] interject um if there's anything that
you want to share. Um but the first that
[33:15] we're looking at here um so it's three
different properties that all are
[33:21] they're all a different scenario as to
what is changing and kind of what's
[33:28] being proposed. So,
all doing the same thing from a broad
[33:33] sense in that the windows at all three
properties are not original.
[33:39] Um, I would estimate
that they were installed somewhere in
[33:44] the 80s or 90s. Um, so it's kind of like
a wood replacement, you know, um,
[33:51] cladded exterior window. Um, but they're
all in pretty poor shape at this point.
[33:56] And definitely um you know replacing
them could is going to make the
[34:03] you know the usable space a lot more
usable. Um so first property that we're
[34:08] looking at 3135 Lraine. That's just kind
of an overview of it. This is the view
[34:14] from Lraine directly across the street.
Uh, this is all one building and when
[34:21] you're on the interior, like what we're
looking at are the eight front upstairs
[34:27] windows. Um, when you're inside, those
are actually all one continuous um,
[34:34] hallway with separate offices. And this
is where um, you know, the people that
[34:39] work at Westside um, you know, their
offices are here. So this is kind of
[34:44] like a pulled away view where you see
all eight at once in the bottom left
[34:49] corner there. That's really just a kind
of a little just to give you a
[34:53] perspective of what
we're looking at the front and the side.
[34:57] So that's the only way to see kind of
the front and the side at the same time.
[35:00] And if you scroll down um
this is now uh you know seeing the side
[35:07] by itself. So there's it's a corner
building that is on Lorraine and 32nd um
[35:14] eight windows that face the front and
now we're looking at the 13 windows on
[35:19] the side of the building. Um
primarily the upstairs the second floor.
[35:26] There are two on the first floor that
are circled. Um one of them is kind of
[35:31] blocked by some artwork that was hung
when we took that picture. Um, so if you
[35:36] look at the second picture in this same
sheet, that's showing that second window
[35:41] that's on the first floor. And also
there's a window that sort of goes
[35:46] around the adjacent corner that kind of
faces south. Um, but that bottom picture
[35:52] shows where that one's tucked um kind of
into the entryway. So altogether you
[35:57] have the eight windows on the front and
then now the side um for an additional
[36:02] 13.
All right. if you want to scroll down
[36:05] from there.
Um, so now the front of the building is
[36:12] you have two different um, color
schemes. The four windows on the left
[36:19] and four windows on the right now. This
is one of an example of the four windows
[36:25] that are on the left. Um, there's sort
of a couple different color elements. uh
[36:32] the trim boards around the window
opening and directly underneath that's
[36:38] painted wood that's kind of like a
maroon color. Um and the window itself
[36:43] it is kind of hard to see in the in the
photo. Um
[36:48] the window has a very thin frame that's
there that is actually a lot brighter
[36:54] red than the color that's below
um that that is like a maroon color. So,
[37:02] the way that we would install the new
windows, the trim boards would be left.
[37:07] Um, and that's what you're looking at
painted or um that blue arrows. So, the
[37:11] trim boards on sides, top and sill on
the bottom, leaving those exactly as
[37:17] they are where that color would stay the
same. The new window would go into the
[37:22] opening. Um,
and I guess this is probably good to go
[37:27] to the next slide or next page down.
So now you're getting kind of a
[37:32] pulledaway view. So those four windows
that are above kind of like that maroon
[37:37] painted um almost like a fascia board.
Um those four proposing to change those
[37:44] from the the bright red frame to a
bronze
[37:49] exterior. And when I look like when
you're looking at the building as a
[37:52] whole from Lorraine, you have the
storefront windows below are all bronze
[37:58] framed and the windows to the right. The
other four that we would be are
[38:02] currently bronze. So the idea here is
remove the bright red that isn't really
[38:09] um matching any of the other colors that
are there and putting in uh bronze but
[38:17] leaving the trim boards the painted wood
so that that looks all consistent.
[38:22] Um,
so and I guess I should interject this
[38:26] too. The the main thing here that we
need approval for is the to do vinyl
[38:33] windows. Um, a lot of and you'll see
this with this property as well as the
[38:38] other, the vinyl window gives us the
opportunity to match colors
[38:44] um to make things more consistent from
like just the color of things. And at
[38:49] the same time, um, the lets the grant
funds stretch a lot farther in terms of
[38:56] like how much how many of the windows in
these locations can be replaced. Um, so
[39:02] I guess if you want to go down then to
the next,
[39:07] uh, [clears throat] this is just showing
that a closeup of that maroon red color
[39:14] that's on the facial board below the
four windows. Um because we kind of have
[39:18] two options here. We could put in a
bronze window and just do a small um
[39:24] it's basically like recreating a stop on
the exterior that would match the bronze
[39:29] color. Or if you wanted to try, you
know, we to
[39:34] pull that maroon um color into the
window opening instead of the bright red
[39:39] that's there. we could use this colored
trim coil, which was a real almost
[39:44] perfect match to what was the painted
wood that's below it. So, kind of have
[39:48] two options there. Um, bronze window
with bronze trim that just blends into
[39:54] the frame or bronze window with uh,
[clears throat] you know, a small stop
[39:59] piece, basically a half inch by half
inch piece that goes around that would
[40:02] kind of tie together um, the the maroon
color that's below.
[40:09] And if we want to go to the next slide.
So [clears throat] the this is a closeup
[40:16] of the four windows that are on the
front, the Lorraine side. Um just
[40:22] showing same idea here. Leave those trim
boards the big painted color that they
[40:28] are currently and then replacing the
bronze colored window that's already
[40:32] there with a new bronze colored window.
Main difference being that it's vinyl.
[40:37] But um there's a kind of like a little
color sample down there at the bottom
[40:41] too showing um just the bronze color
which is in the middle um as opposed to
[40:46] like darker black or you know lighter
brown or terra. Um so the that bronze
[40:51] color would match this what's currently
there.
[40:55] If you want to go to the next
um so kind of to summarize and this is
[41:01] the same it's sort of the same scenario
for all three buildings. um that the
[41:08] current windows are not the original. Um
it'd be upgrading windows that are, you
[41:14] know, 30 to 40 years old and um you
know, improve um the the areas, you
[41:23] know, whether it's a workspace or a
shelter. Um, and the change to vinyl
[41:28] lets us be flexible on matching colors
and at the same time, um, letting the
[41:34] grant funds spread further into, um,
more improvements on the properties. Um,
[41:40] so that's kind of the summary on this
building in particular. So, I I guess I
[41:46] would want to throw it out there. Um,
it'd probably be easier to talk about
[41:49] them individually because the the whole
color idea is is different on all three
[41:54] buildings. So, I don't know if anyone
wants to has questions about that
[41:58] property before we move on to the next
or you know any feedback.
[42:06] » I I'll go first. I think generally the
the idea is good, but I I don't know
[42:13] that I can go along at least on the
Lraine and public facing sides of
[42:19] replacement from aluminum clad wood
windows even though they're not original
[42:23] uh to vinyl windows and is there a way
of maintaining an aluminum clad wood
[42:29] window on the public facing? I know I
think it's your second presentation has
[42:33] some windows on the back side. Maybe a
compromise is to allow vinyl there. But
[42:38] on the street facing windows, maintain
them as aluminum cl wood wood windows.
[42:47] Yeah. The you know that is a
possibility. Um
[42:52] you know we we also sell woodclad um you
know wood interior, aluminum clad
[42:59] exterior. Um
cost becomes a huge factor in this. Um
[43:06] the cost of doing the vinyl window verse
the aluminum clad window is almost three
[43:13] times as much. So, we're really
kind of reducing how much, you know,
[43:21] can't how much can be done for these
properties, you know, improving the
[43:25] » I totally get it and I'm very
sympathetic and you guys do great work
[43:29] for the community and I don't want to
discount that. Uh, our our task, our
[43:34] assignment sitting on this board is to
apply the Secretary of Interior
[43:38] standards uh to the historic district.
Um and while sympathetic and
[43:43] appreciative of the cause, we still have
to maintain those standards. And so if
[43:48] there's a way of working or doing it in
phases to maintain aluminum clad wood
[43:54] window or maybe even a lesser maybe a
fiberglass window would be an option. Um
[43:59] but not vinyl on the public facing
rightways.
[44:05] » And just against Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
>> Oh, I was just I was going to say the
[44:09] same thing. I really appreciate um the
color change and
[44:15] um you know all the attempts here to
match the palette and go back to a more
[44:21] historic bronze frame. But I I was going
to say the exact same thing that Alex is
[44:26] saying. And I also think for the
longevity of the organization, it um
[44:33] obviously would be a larger investment
now to do fiberglass or aluminum clad
[44:39] wood on the public facing side, but um
the reality is that those are going to
[44:43] last longer than the vinyl. And so you
do have the monetary savings over the
[44:51] life of the window.
[44:56] » Yeah. And um to get some clarity too,
just to make sure um when you were
[45:03] saying the um like public facing I think
was the word or so all of the windows on
[45:09] the scope because we're looking at the
front and the side. Do you view those
[45:12] the same or would like the side have the
opportunity to be viewed differently
[45:18] than the front?
I think the side presentation you showed
[45:22] was facing I don't know if that was 32nd
what whatever the side numbered street
[45:27] was that would also be the same aluminum
clad wood window or perhaps fiberglass.
[45:33] » Okay. Um,
so the
[45:38] fiberglass is another option outside of
the aluminum clad and that is offered.
[45:48] Um, you know, something that we can get
in a bronze color. Um, so that is
[45:54] something that we could explore. But,
you know, I guess if the vinyl is
[45:58] getting um, you know, is not going to be
approved,
[46:02] would the fiber an all fiberglass frame
that's bronze exterior, is that
[46:08] something that would be acceptable for
all those?
[46:13] » I'm going to defer to Margaret for that
one.
[46:16] » Uh, yes, I I've that is typically an
acceptable preservation
[46:21] material.
[46:24] » Okay.
Um
[46:28] so yeah, I think that is kind of
um like we probably could move on to the
[46:33] next uh building. Um
similar situation but different um
[46:42] challenges with the colors. Uh so this
one is
[46:48] um on the corner
basically directly across the street
[46:51] from what we were just looking at. So
this is Lorraine and 32nd but on the
[46:55] other side. So the first picture you're
seeing is the front of the building.
[46:59] We're not doing anything on the front.
That's really just a context photo. Uh
[47:03] the next one below that shows from the
corner. So you can get a start to get a
[47:07] feel of what where the area that we are
talking about. The windows that we're
[47:10] looking at are behind that tree. Um so
now as we if you scroll down you'll see
[47:16] I kind of just zoomed up more. So now
the only windows facing 32nd that we
[47:23] would be doing here are those three on
the second floor. Uh two in one opening
[47:30] and then the other uh stand alone. The
windows that are currently there are
[47:37] same idea um replacement window that's
uh older '90s style wood clad. um they
[47:45] have a green exterior and SDL grids. So
what we would be proposing is
[47:55] um using vinyl to maintain the color.
And if you scroll down, I think the next
[47:59] one had um Okay. No, sorry. So also in
the scope of work is the back of the
[48:05] building. these um five windows and
they're the same except for the one in
[48:11] the middle that was replaced at some
point with a vinyl window. Um but same
[48:17] idea like all
um these five plus the other three all
[48:22] eight would would be getting a vinyl
window that's custom painted
[48:28] with SDL grids um and the same pattern
that's there. The middle window doesn't
[48:33] have a grid. it should because all the
rest they're all the same. Um so we'd be
[48:37] bringing that window back to uh u
matching. Um so if you want to scroll to
[48:42] the next.
[48:48] So here's a closeup of what we looked at
looking at the those side windows that
[48:52] were on the upstairs. Same idea. Leave
the trim boards as painted wood. um
[48:58] replace the window that's green that has
the one the four light um one by one
[49:06] grid top and bottom. That would now be
an SDL grid and um the green color
[49:14] that's here. We can get the vinyl window
can get a custom paint match. And if you
[49:21] scroll down, I think I have kind of a
zoom in right there. So, that is the
[49:27] color sample that we'd be sending to get
the windows. Um, which is a pretty
[49:31] spot-on match with what's currently
there. Um, and I get the same scenario
[49:38] of wanting um avoiding the vinyl windows
on the 32nd side. Um the hiccup that we
[49:45] have with these is um getting a green
colored match um with either the um
[49:54] the fiberglass or woodclad window. Um
this color just doesn't exist in those
[50:01] products where we could accurately match
the other windows that are on the
[50:05] building and other like elements that
are painted this green color. So being
[50:11] able to use the vinyl window lets us
get the cut, you know, the exact match
[50:16] on the green um that you see there. And
if you want to scroll down, I don't know
[50:21] if I have any other photos. Yeah. So
same same scenario here. Um this is the
[50:26] same message from the last one. Um, so
yeah, if any feedback or questions on
[50:33] this building,
[50:37] » same same feedback as as before. If
those windows that's on the screen are
[50:42] facing the backyard only and not visible
from the public right away, uh maybe
[50:49] vinyl, but for the ones that are on 32nd
there, same same comments.
[50:56] » Okay. And where we would have a
challenge on replacing those would be
[51:01] getting that that same green color. So
in order like if we explored doing like
[51:06] a fiberglass window
um
[51:11] is like we would we would be able to get
I don't know a different color and um
[51:17] that would be approved like for that
side.
[51:21] Yeah, Andy, my recommendation was
actually going to be maybe default to a
[51:25] color. Uh the green is is lovely and I
appreciate like the effort to match it,
[51:31] but I I wonder if you guys could save
cost by picking a color that you could
[51:35] apply to both fiberglass and vinyl and
then just doing that consistently.
[51:42] So like for the 32nd side or I guess for
all the windows doing like a bronze or
[51:47] something that comes in the driver comes
in and just making them all that same
[51:51] color. I
>> I think so. And I also wanted to add
[51:54] that I don't know if there's additional
cost savings if you were to eliminate
[51:57] the SDLs on these windows. This view in
particular like I doubt that those had
[52:03] divisions. They were likely just double
hung windows if if they're original at
[52:06] all. Like if there was any semblance of
an original window there. Um I don't
[52:10] know if Margaret would have an opinion
on that, but I would say
[52:14] » I was gonna say same thing, Nia.
>> Yeah, nyx the grids. Hopefully there's a
[52:17] little positive cost there and just yeah
do a non-custom color that you can do in
[52:23] both and hopefully that will yield a
little bit of a friendlier cost.
[52:29] » Okay. Um, so I guess if I look at that
32nd side,
[52:34] um,
moving to bronze, you still we should
[52:39] still have the grid, but you're saying
do a grid in between the glass
[52:43] » and if it's roof,
>> no grid at all. Just let them be double
[52:47] home windows and yeah, definitely not
between the glass in any scenario. I
[52:51] just don't see I I just don't think that
that would have even had those. That was
[52:56] probably some creative input at a
replacement, previous replacement that I
[53:01] don't think you need to spend on
recreating.
[53:06] » Okay. So, and the windows below like the
the I like at least for the time being,
[53:11] they would not, you know, they would not
match with the the ones that we're
[53:14] replacing above,
like that's not an issue at this point.
[53:19] Like if we were to do those, like that
wouldn't raise a flag or anything.
[53:24] It doesn't for me in particular.
Um if other committee members feel
[53:29] differently,
they can say so. But I it does not
[53:33] bother me in the interest of achieving
the goals of the project. And you know
[53:40] swapping vinyl for fiberglass on the
front facing facades. Um if the tradeoff
[53:45] if this can yield you positive um cost
impact to help trade offset that then
[53:50] that to me is worth worth it.
even if they're a little mismatched.
[53:58] » Okay.
Um so if any other questions or
[54:02] anything, we can move on to the next
property if um if there's no other
[54:05] input.
[54:09] Okay. So last is a little further down
the street on Lraine. Um this is
[54:17] two sides to the building that we'd be
working on. Uh if you go to the next
[54:21] slide. [clears throat]
So this is the front and sec again
[54:27] second story. There's a total of five.
Uh currently they're um same idea
[54:34] windows around similar age woodclad
white exterior with green aluminum
[54:41] capping that is covering the wood. So
right now this what's different about
[54:45] this building that that those exist the
existing trim boards are already capped
[54:50] in a green color. Um so that's the
upstairs five windows. If you go to the
[54:54] next slide
[clears throat]
[54:58] now this is the side of the building.
It's not really it faces the parking
[55:02] lot. It doesn't face the street. Um and
those windows are currently
[55:09] white exterior with white aluminum trim.
Um,
[55:16] so that's just around the side of the
building. If you go to the next slide,
[55:22] that's a this is just a closeup of one
of those side windows. Um,
[55:28] white window, white capping. And if you
want to go to the next.
[55:34] So now this is a closeup of the front of
the building. White window with the
[55:38] green aluminum capping around it.
And next slide.
[55:45] So this is showing a color sample like
what we were proposing. And obviously I
[55:50] I kind of know the direction of what at
le for the front windows, you know,
[55:55] getting the vinyl a vinyl window that's
white and then doing the green capping
[55:59] around it. So just based on the other
buildings, I'm sure this would fall into
[56:03] that same context of yes, do a white
fiberglass.
[56:08] And then in this case though, I would
not want to leave the trim boards as
[56:12] painted wood cuz they're already covered
with the aluminum. And this would it'll
[56:17] the best thing to do is just reddo the
aluminum capping cuz underneath that
[56:22] wood's going to be pretty badly
deteriorated. And I think painting it
[56:26] just doesn't make sense. So, putting in
um like what we were going to propose
[56:32] was white vinyl window with the this
color green um aluminum trim around it
[56:39] and um you know if that needs I guess if
we need to evaluate that as a white
[56:44] fiberglass with the green trim that
would I feeling like that that kind of
[56:48] would be the direction. Um, and if
[clears throat] we talk about those side
[56:52] windows, I think if you go to the next
slide, I don't know if I had anything.
[56:55] Okay, so yeah, this then the side
windows then, um, we were kind of
[57:00] viewing those as not being street facing
that they go to the parking lot. Um, so
[57:06] definitely like the back, similar to the
back um of the previous building we just
[57:12] looked at that getting a vinyl window
approved for the for the these side ones
[57:17] that aren't street facing um
and have them be white vinyl with white
[57:24] aluminum.
>> I think because it's still I mean I
[57:29] assume that that photo is taken from
West 33rd there as the note reflects. So
[57:34] that's still the public right away. I
would apply my prior comments to this
[57:39] facade as well.
[57:46] » Okay. [clears throat] And so I guess
then a move to fiberglass
[57:52] on side and front. Um but maintaining a
white color and
[57:59] » doing the aluminum grain trim would be
acceptable.
[58:03] I think that you can have flexibility
with color here. So if I you know if
[58:10] there's a cost savings to order
everything in the bronze.
[58:14] Um I actually we off often see that the
buildings from this era originally had
[58:20] darker painted sashes. So it is um would
be nice maybe even preferable to go with
[58:29] the darker color sash.
And I'm okay with um maintaining the
[58:38] aluminum capping.
[58:42] » I don't know what others think.
>> I am also okay with that. And I was also
[58:48] going to suggest either a bronzer or
just a universal color that's not white.
[58:53] Um Andy, did you tell us which brands
just like what brands would you guys
[58:59] install for vinyl or fiberglass? So, you
guys have a suppliers that you work
[59:04] with?
>> Yep. Yeah. So, what you're seeing right
[59:07] there, that's kind of the cover of the
vinyl window. Um, it's made by Oakna.
[59:12] It's definitely,
you know, in our opinion, like a vinyl
[59:16] window that is held in, um, in terms of
quality, a lot higher than just your
[59:23] your typical vinyl window. Um, so this
is the primary vinyl product that we
[59:28] use. A lot of customization that we can
do with it. Um it's overall like when
[59:33] you look at from like technical data
just performance. Um
[59:39] so that would be the vinyl window. The
fiberglass windows that we sell are made
[59:43] by Marvin. Um and actually the this
vinyl window has
[59:50] [clears throat and cough] a longer
warranty and better energy efficiency
[59:54] than the fiberglass window. So, you
know, it is I, you know, like in terms
[1:00:00] of longevity and just um, you know,
long-term improvement to the building,
[1:00:05] like we definitely view the vinyl window
as being something that probably has
[1:00:10] even potentially a longer lifespan than
the fiberglass, just if I was to go by
[1:00:15] the warranty that's offered by the
manufacturer on on the product.
[1:00:21] » Okay. Thank you for um clarifying. I am
very familiar with Marvin and their
[1:00:27] fiberglass product, but not as familiar
with the Oakna product. Um, I might be
[1:00:31] dissenting from my colleagues in that in
this particular building, I would accept
[1:00:35] vinyl on the um
parking lot facing side of the building.
[1:00:42] um
just in again in the interest of this
[1:00:47] particular owner's uh commitment to
service um and the fact that they're
[1:00:53] using grant money and wanting to you
know ensure that they're able to utilize
[1:01:00] their funds efficiently. So that's just
that's my one opinion. Um
[1:01:06] but otherwise yeah I think just in
agreement with everything else that has
[1:01:09] been said
Danction.
[1:01:15] » Yes please. asks.
>> Um, if it's okay with my fellow
[1:01:19] committee members and with the applicant
that we would table this so that they
[1:01:23] could uh redo their proposal in either
aluminum clad or fiberglass windows and
[1:01:29] present those options at a future uh
design review meeting uh for approval.
[1:01:39] I was Yeah, I was gonna say if that
could be an option. Um
[1:01:44] or Dan, I'm not sure if it would be
better if that could work or because we
[1:01:48] don't have quorum right now if they can
make adjustments to the proposal and go
[1:01:51] straight to the committee. I would lean
on your recommendation.
[1:01:55] » Um yeah, either options. uh they could,
you know, move forward with the the
[1:02:00] feedback from you guys today, make some
adjustments and and be on our commission
[1:02:04] meeting next week or um if they wanted
to explore the fiberglass aluminum clad
[1:02:10] options. Essentially, we you know call
it table postponed um and then they
[1:02:14] could present to you guys in uh two
weeks um with the expectation that if
[1:02:20] you guys were fine with it, it wouldn't
need to go to the full commission. Um,
[1:02:23] so either I think either is an easy path
forward.
[1:02:28] » It's up to you, Andy.
>> Yeah, I guess the, you know, and I
[1:02:35] obviously need to talk with Jim and
Westside and go over, you know,
[1:02:40] financial of how this would impact
things to like see what the scope of
[1:02:43] work can be. But um is there a way to
not that we would exactly go this route,
[1:02:51] but if we were to make the changes from
vinyl to fiberglass
[1:02:57] and use the color
um you know, matching colors or like you
[1:03:04] said for the green one, changing that to
a a bronze,
[1:03:08] would this still need to go to like
would we need to do this the pres like
[1:03:13] like what we're doing right Should we or
is this something that I I just don't
[1:03:16] know the process of like if we make
those changes like what then where does
[1:03:19] it go from there?
>> Um like if you kind of take into account
[1:03:25] all of the um the comments you received
today and then change your presentation
[1:03:30] um since we don't have forum um it will
it would need to go to the
[1:03:36] [clears throat] landmarks commission for
for final approval. um you know or you
[1:03:41] could do like Alec suggested and and
come back to this committee to try and
[1:03:45] get an approval in a couple weeks. Um so
I guess it it I mean if you're
[1:03:50] interested in making those changes, it
sounds like there's you know there's
[1:03:52] going to be some research involved with
it. Um because that's something you
[1:03:57] think you'd be ready to uh to move
forward with landmarks next week. um you
[1:04:02] know with we we'd need like a
resubmission by the end of this week or
[1:04:08] if you need a little more time it make
might make more sense to give yourself
[1:04:11] the extra week and just come back to
this committee.
[1:04:14] » My my preference would be just to come
back to this committee and and follow
[1:04:18] the normal process and get a vote of
approval or not and then proceed.
[1:04:27] So Andy, I ask, are you agreeable to
tableabling this so that you can go and
[1:04:31] do your homework and then come back?
>> Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely it
[1:04:36] requires a conversation with um you
know, restructuring the scope of work
[1:04:40] based on the material change. Um, but I
think, you know,
[1:04:47] just to summarize, just to make sure I'm
having all my thoughts, um,
[1:04:52] you know, like to give a the best chance
of approval, um, looking at the first
[1:04:56] property, given that all the windows
face, Lorraine, and 32nd, they would all
[1:05:03] need to be a fiberglass product, but
maintain bronze color on all of them,
[1:05:08] you know, with fiberglass sounded like
that would be the direction that you'd
[1:05:12] be looking for um the second building
using a vinyl product on the back five
[1:05:18] windows.
Um pivoting to a bronze color that would
[1:05:23] match um the three that are facing 30
second but moving those to a fiberglass
[1:05:30] and having no grids on any of those uh
eight.
[1:05:36] And then for the last building, um,
front windows would require fiberglass.
[1:05:42] That would be like doing white would
make the most sense finan like costwise.
[1:05:47] Um, so the front windows be fiberglass,
but kind of still ask for, hey, can we
[1:05:53] do vinyl on the side knowing that it'll
be decision of yes, vinyl is acceptable
[1:05:59] for the side um the like parking lot
side or no, that'll have to be
[1:06:04] fiberglass too. That's kind of like Does
that summary make sense where this would
[1:06:09] be something that' be easy to like
understand and like kind of for you guys
[1:06:12] to make a decision about?
>> Yes, I think that works.
[1:06:19] » Okay. So, yeah, I think if can you put
us on the docket for the next meeting
[1:06:26] then that's in two weeks from today?
>> Yeah. Yeah, we'll keep you penciled in
[1:06:30] and um if you can get us an updated
presentation um just work with Jessica.
[1:06:35] She'll she'll send a follow-up to the
meeting and and let you know when we'll
[1:06:39] need updates and all that.
[1:06:43] » Okay, got it.
>> All right. Well, thank you very much.
[1:06:49] » Do we need to Oh, yeah. We can't make a
motion to table.
[1:06:52] » Yeah. Yeah. There's no no action to be
taken. So, we could call postponed or
[1:06:58] something else or I don't know.
Um, but yeah, next up we have case
[1:07:04] HC26-19
at 1898 West 25th Street. Um,
[1:07:09] renovations. I believe we have Kevin
Oligler and Doug Powski here
[1:07:15] presentation up.
>> Yes, good morning. Um, and we saw this
[1:07:19] one um, schematically a few months ago
and and I guess previously a few I don't
[1:07:25] know at some point in the in the past.
So um, Evan, I'll let you through.
[1:07:31] » Yes. Yeah, I'll let you walk us through
the uh, proposal.
[1:07:36] » Okay, great. Um, thank you again. Thank
you everyone for your time. Um, as was
[1:07:41] just mentioned, this is the proposed
work to the Gats building at 1898 West
[1:07:46] 25th Street. Um, it's a little narrow
building kind of highlighted in red
[1:07:51] there um on West 25th. If you go to the
next slide,
[1:07:57] um, again, just kind of looking um kind
of the market is there on Lraine and we
[1:08:04] are a block or two northward of that.
Next slide, please.
[1:08:11] Um existing photos top row kind of shows
from left to right the corner um gets
[1:08:16] building is labeled there in the middle
and then pins mechanical um is slightly
[1:08:21] lower to the right of it. Um and kind of
the uh front facade condition and then
[1:08:28] the lower images show the rear of that
block and um bottom right is the current
[1:08:34] condition of the rear facade.
Next.
[1:08:40] Um, so the building does go the full
depth of the um the block and it sits
[1:08:46] entirely on the uh footprint of the
parcel
[1:08:50] with the existing parking lot remaining
at the rear. Um, next.
[1:08:57] And um so the left here is um sort of
existing conditions and the right is
[1:09:02] proposed. So essentially on the front,
we're proposing to replace um the
[1:09:06] existing storefront and um boarded up
areas with new uh storefront windows,
[1:09:12] framing, doors, um painted fiber cement
trim and accents to um repair or replace
[1:09:20] um damaged pieces that currently exist.
um as well as um the the previously
[1:09:28] removed um prism glass in the transom
area, we're proposing to reinstall
[1:09:34] behind the new um storefront system that
would be in the same location.
[1:09:41] Um, next.
[1:09:48] And then on the rear, um, taking the,
uh, deteriorated and damaged window
[1:09:53] areas and infilling those with, uh, some
some prefinished framing and metal
[1:10:00] panels. And then further back in the
front threetory portion on the rear side
[1:10:05] of that, installing the same um dark
gray uh prefinished metal panels on that
[1:10:11] exterior as well. Um just to keep those
two consistent um materials at the back
[1:10:16] there. Um and replacing um the sills at
those openings as well that are
[1:10:21] deteriorated on the rear.
Next.
[1:10:30] Um so again, some of the um materials
indicated we're going to be um puck
[1:10:35] pointing and repairing masonry on the
rear that's needed and the infill will
[1:10:39] be with um the u pre-finished metal
panel. That that image on the top shows
[1:10:45] the profile, not the color of it. Um and
then again the um charcoal gray uh new
[1:10:52] storefront aluminum prefinished system
and gray glass at the front facade.
[1:10:59] And I think that might be it. Oh, so
sorry. Some floor plans for context. Um
[1:11:04] kind of also looking at this. The on the
right is the front of the building on
[1:11:09] West 25th. And so the renovations are
installing a new two-story stair there
[1:11:16] so that as you walk up that stair, you
will be adjacent to the um installed
[1:11:21] prism glass um that is behind the new
storefront, but it'll be um sort of
[1:11:28] visually accessible from inside the
building and give you a chance to um see
[1:11:33] it where you wouldn't have um otherwise
when there weren't stairs there.
[1:11:38] If you go to the next slide
[1:11:46] and this this is um roof plan. Next
slide.
[1:11:54] And this is sort of a diagrammatic
section through the front of the
[1:11:58] building as it faces West 25th. So, kind
of showing the the area of the stairs
[1:12:03] that are cut in this section, but as
they pass by that transom area. And so,
[1:12:08] we'll have the new storefront at the
exterior of the building and then
[1:12:10] immediately behind it um install the
prism glass um at that same location um
[1:12:17] just just within the envelope of the
building um and accessible to sort of
[1:12:22] people to get a better view of it there.
[1:12:28] Um, I don't know if we have another page
in here. Yep. And you know, just a kind
[1:12:32] of a exterior concept perspective of
what that uh looks like from the street
[1:12:38] with the the stairs in the front and the
um renovations and new storefront and
[1:12:44] trim on the front of the building.
[1:12:51] » That's the last one.
>> Perfect.
[1:12:57] Um, I greatly appreciate the uh
reinstallation of the prism glass. Have
[1:13:03] you do you have the original?
>> Yes. Okay,
[1:13:14] that was really Oh, and then for tuck
pointing, you know, we always would like
[1:13:18] to specify for the this older building,
the historic border, um that the border
[1:13:25] match
the aggregate and the color of the
[1:13:29] historic as closely as possible. And
then also have a high lime content so
[1:13:35] that it's not overly hard.
[1:13:46] Thanks, Margaret. I had the same
question about the prism glass because I
[1:13:49] know that that has been a challenge with
previous I don't know years years old
[1:13:54] proposals um for this business owner.
So, um this this looks this looks really
[1:14:01] good in my opinion.
[1:14:13] And we can't make a motion, right? We
still don't have corum. So,
[1:14:17] » if I could make a motion, I'd make one
to approve. [laughter]
[1:14:21] » I would agree. So, unless Alex and
Whitney have any other dis like
[1:14:27] dissenting or additional comments.
>> No,
[1:14:31] » go ahead, Whitney.
>> Okay.
[1:14:34] I think that I missed the uh initial
presentation. What is the justification
[1:14:39] for the um window removal on the rear?
[1:14:46] So they are they are deteriorated um you
know enclosures back there and it is it
[1:14:53] is um sort of a patchwork of I don't
know if you go back then patchwork of
[1:14:58] infills and pieces and parts and so um
that's
[1:15:05] » yeah there in the bottom right.
[1:15:09] Yeah, in the the previous proposal when
this came for schematic, I believe you
[1:15:13] were going to brick those in. Um I
believe if I recall that at during that
[1:15:19] meeting, um I think it was just was that
the one where it was just Chris
[1:15:24] » giving you guys feedback and he he had
recommended instead of trying to match
[1:15:28] the brick and you can see there's a a
variety of different colors of brick
[1:15:32] there. Um, so that instead of trying to
pick one or trying to have a medium, it
[1:15:37] would be easier just to utilize a
similar metal panel than that is being
[1:15:41] utilized higher up on the building to
kind of give it a finished look um but
[1:15:46] not try to match anything that's already
there and um end up offsetting other
[1:15:53] things.
[1:15:56] it
>> I also think that's more easily
[1:15:59] removable if someone were to ever
reinstate
[1:16:02] window
>> is it is natural light um just not
[1:16:08] desired for the use of the interior of
the building
[1:16:12] » that portion is where a new um exit
stair is being installed so that's at
[1:16:20] that rear end of the building that that
back 10 ft is the egress stair currently
[1:16:26] the building, it only had sort of one
stair in the middle. And so to use it as
[1:16:30] deep as it is, we really need two ways
of that second floor. And that's what
[1:16:34] the rear stair is providing for us.
[1:16:45] Okay. I I think I share Margaret's
opinion. I think the metal panels are
[1:16:51] preferable
far prefer more preferable than brick so
[1:16:55] that it could be easily removed and
windows installed should a future or
[1:16:59] different use be needed.
So it keeps the historic opening. So I'm
[1:17:04] fine with that.
[1:17:13] If there's nothing else, I know that we
can't make a motion, but um I guess Dan
[1:17:17] for your notes to communicate to
landmarks that um I would make a motion
[1:17:22] to approve approve as presented then and
I think we would have a majority there.
[1:17:29] Tell me if I'm wrong.
>> I see some some nodding heads.
[1:17:36] » Um and thumbs up. All right. Well, we
we'll we'll I'll I'll pass that on to
[1:17:40] the commission.
Thank you. Um Kevin, thank you. Uh Doug,
[1:17:45] thanks.
>> Thanks everyone.
[1:17:49] » And we'll we'll be we'll be in touch for
next steps. Thanks.
[1:17:52] » Okay.
[1:17:56] » All right. Uh next up we have
case uh HOC 26-33
[1:18:05] at 4227 Lorraine Avenue. Dar Tires. Um,
got blank signs here.
[1:18:13] Um, Nick, uh, do you want to walk us
through your presentation?
[1:18:19] » Uh, sure. Uh, [clears throat]
we got a simple sign for you. It's a ACM
[1:18:25] panel. Uh, as you can see, this is the
overview of the building. And where it
[1:18:29] says S1, that's the entrance into the
business.
[1:18:34] Can you go to the next slide, please?
[1:18:39] Uh, this is going to be the ACM panel.
Uh, it's going to be um, sorry I can't
[1:18:45] read this. Let me switch to my screen
real quick.
[1:18:57] So, it's a digitally printed laminated
uh, 3mm uh, ACM panel uh, mechanically
[1:19:03] fastened to the wall. It's going to be
red fonts uh with the white background.
[1:19:10] Uh next uh slide please. I think that'll
be the end of it.
[1:19:15] » That is Yeah, that's the only one we
have.
[1:19:17] » Yep.
[1:19:28] Does anyone have any feedback?
[1:19:46] I mean, it's such a simple sign. I guess
I don't have any uh feedback though
[1:19:50] outside the scope of this presentation.
It would be nice if the tires were not
[1:19:55] stored um right there on the street.
>> On the street. Yeah.
[1:20:01] I mean, my feedback is always the same
with the signs that they be mounted
[1:20:06] through a mortar joint rather than
through the masonry.
[1:20:19] All right. Any any other feedback
recommendations to be passed on to the
[1:20:24] uh commission?
>> Not for me either. Straightforward.
[1:20:30] Looks good.
All right. Well, that was easy. Um,
[1:20:36] all right. Now, uh, we will be in touch
with next steps, but I believe we have
[1:20:40] it penciled in for, um, next week's
commission meeting since we, um, don't
[1:20:44] have quorum here today.
>> Oh, okay. So, we can't approve it today.
[1:20:49] » Um, not without quorum. Um,
>> okay. But
[1:20:53] » yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, we'll we'll
we'll be in touch. Um, okay. Today or
[1:20:59] tomorrow.
Uh, do you know what day it is next
[1:21:02] week?
>> Um, it would be Thursday. Uh, those
[1:21:05] meetings start at 9:15. Um, they're
they're virtual or in person, whichever
[1:21:10] is easier for you.
>> Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much.
[1:21:14] » All right. Thank you.
>> All right. See you guys.
[1:21:20] » All right. Next up, we have uh some
renovations proposed
[1:21:26] uh at 5505
uh-9 Lraine Avenue, case HOC26-34.
[1:21:34] Um I think we got Mike McCre here. Uh
>> yes. Hello. Good afternoon.
[1:21:42] » Great. Hey, you want to walk us through
your presentation?
[1:21:45] » Sure. Uh we're proposing a extensive
renovation to this obviously neglected
[1:21:52] building. As you can see on this first
slide, it's in really poor shape. Um
[1:21:58] it's going to house retail and then
co-op offices on the second floor.
[1:22:05] Uh just real you could see on this photo
at the top left that the and I saw this
[1:22:12] the second floor has not been demoed but
you could see in one area the old header
[1:22:18] the original header of the window. So,
the windows you see in that top left
[1:22:23] photo, there's a fiberglass panel above
those double hungs, which one of the
[1:22:29] things we will be doing to all the
windows on the second floor is restoring
[1:22:32] them to their original rough opening.
Um, next slide.
[1:22:45] Next slide.
[1:22:49] Oh, did we? Well, the other one just
showed adjacent structures. So, you can
[1:22:54] see kind of Unfortunately, this is
somewhat of a neglected area as of now.
[1:23:00] It's a short span where some buildings
have not really seen much care over the
[1:23:05] years, but we're looking to bring this
one back to life in this corridor. Uh,
[1:23:10] next slide. Just this is just showing
what we proposed to demo. We'll be
[1:23:16] demoing the existing storefront,
keeping the bulkhead, just removing the
[1:23:23] cladding, repairing any sheeting that
needs and replacing
[1:23:28] that trim with Azac sheeting and trim
board. And we'll be putting in a
[1:23:33] aluminum black storefront.
Uh, next slide.
[1:23:44] This again just shows the proposed floor
plan. Uh, next slide please.
[1:23:51] This shows what we're proposing will be
restoring the existing roof cornice,
[1:23:58] replacing any brackets that are damaged
with similar and any of the trim work
[1:24:06] we'll be replacing as well.
Uh again, as I stated earlier, we'll be
[1:24:11] restoring the windows to their original
heights on the second floor.
[1:24:16] The storefront cornice is missing in
place, is badly damaged. We'll be
[1:24:22] replacing that with
uh AAC cornice,
[1:24:28] trim board, and crown
to match the existing.
[1:24:33] Uh any damaged brick will be replaced.
We'll be cleaning it, ridding it of the
[1:24:39] graffiti, and tuck pointing as needed.
As I stated before, we'll be removing
[1:24:45] the existing cladding at the bulkhead of
the storefront, replacing with AAC
[1:24:52] and painted Tricorn black. All the trim
and cornises and the bays will also be
[1:24:59] in that tricorn black.
Um
[1:25:04] we'll be cleaning all the stone sills
and lentils that will remain. Same with
[1:25:09] the peers, the capitals and the plits.
All will remain as well. Uh we'll be
[1:25:15] installing new exterior lighting up and
down. They'll be uh able to do up and
[1:25:21] down lighting.
Um and then on the east side, you can
[1:25:27] see the corner will there's no
storefront there now. that's just
[1:25:31] boarded up. We'll be placing a
storefront in the corner. And then
[1:25:35] there's another
masonry opening on this east side that
[1:25:40] we will be installing a new storefront
as well with bulkhead to match the rest.
[1:25:46] The back building currently has two
overhead doors. We'll replace one
[1:25:51] overhead door with a full view aluminum
door and the other one with a
[1:25:57] storefront. And then we'll be removing
these old missing glass block transoms
[1:26:03] on that back section as well and filling
with block. And we'll be removing one of
[1:26:09] the man doors and then filling that with
block as well. Then painting that
[1:26:14] existing block with uh the tri tricorn
black. the roof over that entry to that
[1:26:22] back space will be replacing the siding
with uh Hardy
[1:26:29] uh plank siding.
Uh let me next slide.
[1:26:39] We will also the tongue and groove
softening at the storefronts um we'll be
[1:26:45] replacing with Azac beadboard
tongue and groove that will or sheeting
[1:26:51] our sheets I'm sorry that will be also
painted tricorn black
[1:26:56] and then next slide
[1:27:01] this is just uh I apologize the one on
the east view that block does not look
[1:27:10] tricorn black, but it will be. But this
kind of gives you an idea of what the
[1:27:15] restored building will look like. We
will also I forgot to say fit the roof
[1:27:20] is in horrible shape. So, a new roof on
both the back structure and the twotory
[1:27:26] structure will be done.
And then if you go to the next slide,
[1:27:33] that just shows you the storefront
storefront color glazing
[1:27:38] that we propose. It'll be black. Next
slide.
[1:27:46] This shows the overhead door that we're
proposing for the back unit. And then we
[1:27:52] are proposing Anderson 100. It's a
fiberglass window.
[1:27:56] It'll be the exterior will be black,
interior will be black and or single
[1:28:01] hung, I'm sorry. And then it'll be a two
up, two down divide with uh SDL grids.
[1:28:11] Next slide.
[1:28:15] And then that just shows the trim and
that we'll be using and the beadboard
[1:28:21] sheeting.
And then the proposed light fixture,
[1:28:26] that one is not shown in black, but that
will be black. And all trim will be
[1:28:30] painted the tricorn black.
[1:28:34] And I'll uh shut up and open it to uh
comments.
[1:28:44] » Thanks, Mike.
>> Yes.
[1:28:46] » Um
I think overall as a whole this is very
[1:28:50] agreeable. Thank you for a clear um
presentation and drawing set. I have a
[1:28:58] question about or I more like what what
are our thoughts on the divisions of the
[1:29:02] storefront? I think the existing
building has some more vertical
[1:29:07] divisions than the proposed
though.
[1:29:12] It's I I would I don't know. It's hard
to say if that could be original or if
[1:29:15] that was a replacement at some other
point. I'm curious, like Margaret in
[1:29:18] particular, what your thoughts might be
on the historic accuracy of the
[1:29:21] divisions in the storefront and if we
need more or if it looks good as is.
[1:29:29] » Um, so you're asking me this question,
correct?
[1:29:33] » Yeah, I'm just asking more like for the
for the group too, like do because you
[1:29:38] can see in existing photos and I'm I'm
vaguely familiar with the building. I've
[1:29:42] been in it a couple times, but
>> that there's more vertical divisions.
[1:29:45] Dan, can you go to sl one?
>> Yeah, sorry. That would be upper left
[1:29:49] corner.
>> That's what I'm looking at on my screen.
[1:29:51] And I really didn't realize we weren't
all looking at the same thing. Yeah. So,
[1:29:56] we see more vertical divisions in those
um storefronts currently.
[1:30:02] » And if we know if we have historic
evidence of what was there, I would
[1:30:07] prefer to match that. Though, also
without seeing it kind of literally in
[1:30:11] my face, it's hard to say if that's
original or not. So, I'm depending on
[1:30:14] your
uh you know, testimony of oh, this is an
[1:30:18] original anyways or what you you know,
>> I I did do some digging and I was unable
[1:30:24] to find much information on this
building. I think the last time it was
[1:30:28] occupied was maybe 14.
Um the storefronts, it's a
[1:30:35] mismatch of new aluminum and then the
old wood. Um,
[1:30:41] I I'm not objecting. I wouldn't be I'd
be fine with more vertical divides. Uh,
[1:30:47] it was more or less as I looked through
it, they're not none of them are equal.
[1:30:52] So, when I did do a test to see how it
would look with more vertical
[1:30:58] some, you know, it wasn't proportional,
but I don't think it has to be either.
[1:31:02] So truly I think I would agree that I
could see more verticals
[1:31:10] maybe just in the bottom half and not
the trance. I don't know.
[1:31:14] » Yeah, it looks like it looks like what's
currently there are there's more in the
[1:31:19] bottom but not in the top like almost
like each one is divided in two on the
[1:31:23] bottom.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely doable.
[1:31:27] Yeah, I think that would be
agreeable just because we see it and we
[1:31:31] know it's there. Margaret, what do you
think?
[1:31:33] » I agree because I think it lines up with
the
[1:31:37] the vertical lines that are coming down
from the windows in the bay above.
[1:31:46] » It could be that that would be
that that would be something I'd have to
[1:31:51] take a closer look at. I I don't It's
hard to tell from the picture, but it
[1:31:56] just looks like, you know, that there's
a verticality in the lines that would
[1:32:00] carry down with the additional divide,
>> but also like I think it's a more I
[1:32:07] think it's a consideration like I don't
think it's going to kill the project,
[1:32:12] » right? And I'm guessing, Margaret, we
just would not also have had those huge
[1:32:14] sheets of glass at the building is
probably why. Correct.
[1:32:18] » Yeah. So, I I'm I'm the same. I think
it's a consideration. It's more just
[1:32:23] like a dis
a thought. Um
[1:32:28] » I think uh it seems like you're and I'm
sorry. Are you the building owner or the
[1:32:32] architect?
>> Architect.
[1:32:34] » Okay. So obviously the um it seems like
you're taking a very classic approach to
[1:32:39] you know restore replace kind. Um.
>> Mhm.
[1:32:43] » And is there any specification on
I you mentioned boral like you know I
[1:32:49] would say acceptable acceptable
replacements to wood if they aren't
[1:32:55] salvageable to to be like a non you know
boral type product
[1:33:01] » or asac or
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just making sure that we're
[1:33:04] not getting like the vinyl wrap. You
know, sometimes we build these bigger
[1:33:08] facads and then they end up with a vinyl
wrap and you're like, come on. But, you
[1:33:12] know, just it seems like you have a lot
of notes, but maybe just being specific
[1:33:16] in your specs about acceptable products
um in alignment with the secretary of
[1:33:20] interior standards and then
>> and I think similar for mortar joint if
[1:33:24] you have not specified the type of
mortar joint.
[1:33:27] » Okay.
>> Protect pointing would be helpful so
[1:33:30] that we don't end up with a hard
you know too hard of a mortar.
[1:33:34] » No, I understood.
Okay.
[1:33:37] Is is there a uh tenants already
signed for this building or is this for
[1:33:43] future tenant?
>> Future tenants. So the the storefronts
[1:33:47] and the back building will be white
boxed and then the offices will be built
[1:33:51] out upstairs.
>> Okay. So there's no chance that those
[1:33:53] would ever become an apartment or
anything like that. It's just going to
[1:33:56] be office.
>> It Yeah. Because when they purchased the
[1:34:00] building, a lot of the infrastructure
for what when the building was
[1:34:03] conceived, it was apartments, but it
appeared that it had actually been
[1:34:07] changed to some sort of office.
>> Okay. I only said it because it would be
[1:34:14] a consideration perhaps to use double
hung rather than single if you needed
[1:34:17] egress.
>> Yes, that's the building owner. Yeah. If
[1:34:21] that if that's their if it's office,
that should be fine. So that was the
[1:34:25] only reason I was thinking that.
Understood.
[1:34:28] » Okay.
Looks good for me. Um, otherwise
[1:34:34] » I also really appreciate this
presentation. I think it's very well
[1:34:37] done. My only other note about the
masonry is have you specified any of the
[1:34:43] cleaning and graffiti removal products?
>> Not yet. We are going to go through that
[1:34:49] and with with the builder. Um because
you know you want some maybe proco
[1:34:55] product that is approved for older or
historic buildings. That's a gentler
[1:35:02] approach.
>> Okay.
[1:35:10] » Um I I totally agree with Nia um and
Margaret about adding additional
[1:35:15] vertical divides in the first floor to
mirror the historic photo that's on the
[1:35:20] screen there. I think between the uh
brick peers or pilasters there's an
[1:35:24] extra set than what's shown on the
rendering on page seven. So with that
[1:35:29] recommendation and then are you
rebuilding
[1:35:33] uh exactly the cornice that is there? So
it's going to be the exact same
[1:35:38] proportion same
>> it'll be proportions. It may not it may
[1:35:41] not uh have the same reveal as that
existing cornice that sticks out pretty
[1:35:46] far and it it could
it it could
[1:35:52] lead to
damaging of the new storefront. You
[1:35:56] know, it's just it's a place for water,
ice, snow to sit. It sticks out
[1:36:01] significantly.
It'll just it won't have that projection
[1:36:06] the top piece.
>> Okay. I think with proper
[1:36:11] pitch and flashing, you should be able
to avoid the rain and the,
[1:36:18] you know, icicles forming or whatever
off that. And and the proportion of that
[1:36:22] cornice is we should try to maintain
that. Often when buildings are uh
[1:36:30] redeveloped and and by the way, this is
a fantastic proposal and presentation. I
[1:36:34] really enjoyed it. uh but we lose the
proportion and it's very apparent that
[1:36:39] this building was redone because the
proportions are not kept and so I would
[1:36:45] strongly suggest that you maintain the
the same proportions of that cornice and
[1:36:50] that they not become smaller more
dimminionative because it will stand out
[1:36:54] it will not look right and there are
very simple ways to avoid the problem
[1:36:58] you identified of you know icicles or
whatever coming off of it Okay.
[1:37:06] » And and I I I mean that I think that's
such an important characteristic of the
[1:37:10] building that I know we don't have a
quorum, but my vote would be contingent
[1:37:14] on matching that proportionality, but
otherwise this is a fantastic
[1:37:19] presentation.
>> Thank you. Um yeah, I mean we could
[1:37:22] definitely achieve it. Uh that was the
only thing I was thinking about the you
[1:37:27] know putting the money into it and would
it but I agree. I I think we can achieve
[1:37:34] it and should be able to do it. I mean
the depth of the oris is the same. It
[1:37:39] was just the projection was different.
>> Yeah. I mean when you go to a place like
[1:37:44] Rocker Park, it's readily apparent that
it has been Disneyi because the
[1:37:48] proportions are are wrong and we just
don't want to have that happen here. We
[1:37:52] want to maintain maintain that scale.
>> Okay.
[1:37:56] » Thank you.
[1:38:00] » Yeah. I'm um in agreement. It's a really
really great presentation and I'm
[1:38:05] excited to see this building come back
to life. Um this is extremely minor and
[1:38:11] um
it would not be a sticking point if we
[1:38:14] were able to um take this to a vote, but
tricorn black can be such a a stark
[1:38:22] color and I'd love to see a softer
black. You can just especially with the
[1:38:26] contrast of the brick and there's so
much variation in brick and warmth and
[1:38:30] um you know my favorite is typically
green black. You can just see the
[1:38:34] material underneath it a bit more. Um
and so I love I love blacks. I love the
[1:38:39] dark colors that are popping up around
the neighborhood. But I just think
[1:38:43] tricorn on this structure might just
feel a little bit too stark.
[1:38:49] But
>> just a really minor thought.
[1:38:52] » Yeah, we can look at that.
[1:39:07] All right. Um, not hearing any other
comments. Um, right, Mike. We'll we'll
[1:39:12] be in touch with next steps, but uh
we'll probably have you go to the
[1:39:17] commission and I think you'll work
favorably upon a proposal because it's
[1:39:23] uh I'm excited to see this building
getting fixed up. I've driven by it I
[1:39:27] don't know how many times and such a
beautiful one. So,
[1:39:30] » yes, it it is.
>> Yeah. Thank you for your hard work on
[1:39:33] this.
>> Thank you.
[1:39:38] » All right. Next up, we have cage
HOC26-35
[1:39:44] at 416 Bridge Avenue. Um, Jerry, uh,
Jerry Coleman and Rebecca Weisenthal
[1:39:51] here, uh, for an addition. So, if you
guys want to walk us through your
[1:39:56] presentation, just let me know when you
want me to advance the slides.
[1:39:58] » Yeah, perfect. Um, just to kick it off,
my name is Jerry Coleman. I'm the
[1:40:01] homeowner. Um, I purchased this house in
2016, 2017ish.
[1:40:08] It was condemned at the time. Um
[snorts]
[1:40:11] passed around by a lot of builders. Big
nuisance property in the area. Um fixed
[1:40:16] it up and built a huge addition, a nice
new garage at considerable expense. Um I
[1:40:21] live in it now and um my situation
changed where I've got remarried and
[1:40:26] I've got a pile of kids over here in
Ohio City and uh two of the boys are
[1:40:30] sharing a room that's also my office.
So, um, that's kind of where we got here
[1:40:36] or how we got here. And, uh, Rebecca
will kind of walk you guys through, um,
[1:40:40] our proposal.
[1:40:49] » Rebecca, you're muted. If you're
[1:40:57] bottom left,
[1:41:03] » all of these programs are all a little
different, but um sometimes if you just
[1:41:08] » Can you hear me?
>> Thank Sorry about that. Uh so Jerry told
[1:41:14] you why this is important to him. And if
you take a look at sheet A3, so just uh
[1:41:24] two slides, you're on A1 right now.
Great. And this though, this is showing
[1:41:29] the second floor, the existing second
floor as well as the proposed third
[1:41:35] floor. So if we if we zoom in a little
bit, you'll see that um Jerry's office
[1:41:41] right now is also a bedroom for two
boys, which is not working great. Uh
[1:41:47] what we're proposing is putting a stair
from the office up to the this new third
[1:41:54] floor.
We're proposing the third floor be built
[1:41:58] in the middle of the house behind the
oldest part of the house. And this is
[1:42:03] actually the area of the house that was
an addition
[1:42:07] u back in 2017 I believe.
>> Yeah.
[1:42:10] » So we're we're not putting this in the
the very front over the old part of the
[1:42:14] house. So, you can see that little third
floor. We're proposing with two bedrooms
[1:42:19] for the boys, a small bathroom, and a
small utility closet for a uh relocated
[1:42:26] furnace.
And then I'd like you to look at A4, the
[1:42:32] next slide, which is this is showing the
back of the house first. And we have our
[1:42:36] two heights, one to mid rafter span and
also to the the new ridge. Um, and you
[1:42:44] can see that we're also not building out
over the very back of the house. So,
[1:42:48] this mass is just in the center of the
house. And then if we go one more slide
[1:42:53] to A5,
you're going to see the front, the
[1:42:59] proposed front of the house. Uh, we're
trying to make it look like other houses
[1:43:05] in the neighborhood where there was
maybe something built in front and you
[1:43:08] can see the old house behind. We have
two small windows in the front to give
[1:43:13] it that that look.
And then I think what will help if we
[1:43:19] keep going through the slides to we have
some nice photographs.
[1:43:29] So on these sheets, if we look at the
photographs of the front of the house,
[1:43:35] we can see if you could Can you make
that any bigger on can you zoom in on
[1:43:40] those photographs? Great. Thank you.
So to the west of
[1:43:48] Mr. Coleman's house. We have an old
house that has a store built in front of
[1:43:52] it. And now we have 4016 bridge in the
middle there. So, we're proposing this
[1:43:59] new third floor built back from the
front. And it's it's quite a few feet
[1:44:05] back. In fact, it is we're proposing
almost 27 feet back from the front of
[1:44:11] the house. So, it's it's not going to be
highly visible from Bridge Avenue.
[1:44:17] We're trying to to give it a look of an
older house behind similar to what's
[1:44:22] happening at the house with the store in
front of it.
[1:44:28] And then if you go down just a little
farther in the packet, you're going to
[1:44:31] see existing photos of 4016 bridge. And
then as you keep going, you're going to
[1:44:38] see the houses that surround it on
neighboring streets.
[1:44:45] So here these we have the front of 4016
bridge and to the right we have um a two
[1:44:53] houses that were joined. I just wanted
to show you the mass of what's adjacent
[1:44:59] to Jerry's house to to give a feel that
this small addition we're proposing I
[1:45:06] don't think it would even be visible
from a view like this. It's too far back
[1:45:10] off the street. And you can see that we
still we have some adjacent
[1:45:15] fairly uh massive structures next to
him. We also have pictures across the
[1:45:22] street of what's directly in front of
his house. So we have a masonry brick
[1:45:28] building. You can see how it's right
next to a smaller house and then also a
[1:45:34] three-story house
which is adjacent to that.
[1:45:45] So, that is
the the gist of what we're attempting to
[1:45:50] do.
[1:45:54] And we're also, of course, matching all
of the materials that are on the
[1:45:58] existing house. Wood trim, exactly the
same profile, same woodclad windows,
[1:46:06] same cladding color, same cement board
siding. all trimmed to match.
[1:46:15] And Jerry, can you think of anything
else you'd like to add to um Yeah, I
[1:46:20] just want to say I think it's important
to note that uh in 17 we did the
[1:46:24] project. Uh it was Doug from Vizio
Architects. We did go through Landmarks
[1:46:29] Commission. So everything we're saying
we're going to match was approved um in
[1:46:34] 17. Uh, so, so you know, it's it's not
like we're we're just matching something
[1:46:40] that was put on there in 1980.
>> That little sketch you have currently up
[1:46:47] is is
showing what this addition will look
[1:46:51] like from the front of the house.
[1:46:59] And I think that's that's it for our
presentation.
[1:47:08] Thank you both. I can kick off
commentary. First want to say I really
[1:47:13] appreciate um the evolution of this
house. I've watched it evolve under your
[1:47:17] ownership and it has um been really
great to see the care you've put into
[1:47:21] the property. Um also can appreciate
your position as someone who perhaps has
[1:47:25] too many children. So I would love to
see how we can get get something
[1:47:31] approved for you guys. Um,
I think
[1:47:36] and I also can very much appreciate like
the very dynamic uh con, you know,
[1:47:43] epicenter of massing that you guys are
at at this uh point in on Bridge Avenue
[1:47:47] because you definitely have a lot going
on and I think it's a point well taken
[1:47:51] for all of those reasons. Um, I think
I'm just struggling a little bit with
[1:47:56] the with the
elevation views. I know we never see
[1:48:01] them like that in real life obviously.
Um, but it does feel perhaps a bit
[1:48:06] overdominating to the existing home. So,
I'm trying to think and you've obviously
[1:48:12] put a lot of care and attention to this,
you know, so far. Was it considered to
[1:48:18] like perhaps turn the gable
um and or not match the pitch? And I'm
[1:48:25] normally someone who really wants the
pitch of the roof to relate to other
[1:48:28] points of the house the way you have it
drawn, but I'm curious if we just might
[1:48:34] be better off with the softer pitch on
the addition just to bring down that
[1:48:38] that center point. Um,
>> I'm going to jump in really quickly
[1:48:42] here. Yes, please. One thing we're
hoping to do to save materials is to
[1:48:47] actually reuse the trusses that were
installed on the roof in 2017 on this
[1:48:54] new addition. And the of course the
architect uh Lean Sampid is going to
[1:48:58] have to examine them along with the
contractor, make sure that that's
[1:49:02] feasible once we get to that point. But
we were actually trying to lift them up
[1:49:07] and reinstall them on this new third
floor. So that would be that's the pitch
[1:49:12] would would then match the existing. So
that was one consideration.
[1:49:19] » Yeah, that's very interesting. Thank you
for the information. Like that makes a
[1:49:24] lot of sense. I from a build building
standpoint
[1:49:29] in in material reuse standpoint. I just
do I don't know. I mean I again I'm I'm
[1:49:34] open to discussion on it. I just think
>> is it worth that when we could cut that
[1:49:40] slope in half cuz you're as I'm looking
at your section you aren't it's not
[1:49:44] occupiable it's not conditioned space
it doesn't seem like there's any other
[1:49:49] reason
>> to have it sure if you go to uh A4
[1:49:54] you'll see that section
>> and I'm looking at that one there
[1:50:00] » yeah I'm and I'm also one that's like no
we have great building material I love
[1:50:03] the thought I just
feel it does feel a little overwhelming
[1:50:07] at the moment. Even though it's push
back, I know all these things logically.
[1:50:10] I know how to the eye it's going to
look. But
[1:50:13] » in the spirit of the criteria of of
being um
[1:50:18] » what's the right word? Not submissive.
What do we say? Someone help me out
[1:50:21] here.
[1:50:25] » Predominate over the historic structure.
>> Yes. And it does feel a bit too tall. I
[1:50:31] also think you might, unless there's
been a change in zoning, you probably
[1:50:34] will run into a height issue. You might
at that peak at the third from a zoning
[1:50:38] standpoint. Um
>> I don't know. I I would love to hear if
[1:50:42] you
>> I don't think we do. And I I I may, you
[1:50:46] know, I could have reinter I could have
interpreted something incorrectly. I
[1:50:49] don't think we do have a height problem,
especially since we're set back as far
[1:50:54] as we are, but we'll we'll research that
and make sure.
[1:50:59] Yeah, double check on that one because
and note that you have a dimension to
[1:51:02] the midpoint of the roof, but Cleveland
takes it to the to the highest point,
[1:51:06] not the midpoint. I know different
jurisdictions do that differently, but
[1:51:09] » we did it both ways to make sure that
>> we we do have it both ways.
[1:51:19] » I would love to hear other committee
members opinions on on it. Again, I
[1:51:23] really want the property to grow with
your family. Um, and I'm not opposed at
[1:51:28] all in
to any of the materiality you're
[1:51:31] proposing. Again, I think you've done
great work with the property. It's more
[1:51:34] just like how can we get this massing a
little bit more agreeable to work is is
[1:51:39] how I feel.
>> I I agree with you. If you look at A5 on
[1:51:45] page on page five of the presentation,
um the the addition
[1:51:52] it is a bit more doineering over the
historic structure. Is if there's a way
[1:51:57] Nia suggested turning the gable. Um I
understand you're trying to reuse
[1:52:01] material. Is there a way to lower it the
floor plate by one or two feet, bring it
[1:52:06] down a little bit and then maybe add a
window right underneath the peak to
[1:52:10] soften that? Um,
you're 90% of the way there. It just
[1:52:15] needs to be softened a bit.
>> One one option it unfortunately we
[1:52:22] wouldn't be able to reuse trusses, but
if we lowered the plate height and
[1:52:26] raised the ceiling joist and did a stick
built um roof instead, we could do that.
[1:52:32] It would um unfortunately we we would
have to be buying more, you know, new
[1:52:37] materials and not reusing
[1:52:41] But we we could and then have like a a
slightly um we have a a slightly shorter
[1:52:46] wall, slight slope up to
an 8 foot or 8 foot6 ceiling and do a
[1:52:55] stickuilt
rafter and ceiling joist roof.
[1:53:02] » Yeah, four plate two feet would be a
good improvement. Uh but I'll I'll let
[1:53:07] others chime in as well.
I was then going to think the same thing
[1:53:11] if we could get that top plate down and
just maybe a clipped it. It might
[1:53:15] already be clipped at the corner, but
that could help. Um,
[1:53:21] I really do think just just perhaps
perhaps going with a softer slope would
[1:53:27] really go a long long way. And even if
you wanted to maintain the the ceiling
[1:53:32] heights and or not interfere with the
head heights of those windows by
[1:53:37] lowering that plate too much.
Just thinking of all the the factors
[1:53:42] that I know you guys are considering
when you're building this massing out.
[1:53:50] » Well, we can we can certainly look at
those those things.
[1:53:54] Um,
and so there there it sounds like is
[1:53:58] there any way there's no way you would
accept this
[1:54:03] uh even in in in its current form even
if we let's say add a dormer or do
[1:54:08] something
uh change the windows in the front? Is
[1:54:12] there any or add a maybe a central
decorative window at the front? Is there
[1:54:17] any way we could
salvage our mass, our current mass,
[1:54:23] given how far back it is from the house?
So, if you look at A3 once more, you're
[1:54:30] going to see that
the dimension back from the front of the
[1:54:35] house, I think it's u let me I have to
zoom in. I'm looking at my screen here.
[1:54:41] It's um
[1:54:47] 26 foot over 26 feet back from the
front. So I think when you're when
[1:54:53] you're on Bridge Avenue, you really
don't see that mass.
[1:54:59] Uh and then if you you know, we have to
remember that on Bridge, we've got those
[1:55:03] fairly tall structures to his right that
are dwarfing his house a little bit.
[1:55:11] Yeah, I I don't I totally don't disagree
with you at all from a contextual
[1:55:15] standpoint. It's just we have to look if
we're looking at the house on its own.
[1:55:20] » That's where it feels a little over
dominating. And I don't even think, and
[1:55:23] correct me if I'm wrong, you cannot this
addition still would occur Angelo's next
[1:55:28] door on the corner. It still occurs.
You can't see it from his sideyard.
[1:55:34] Correct. Like uh if you're on Randall,
you wouldn't be able to see this
[1:55:39] from from Randall. Correct. Am I right
looking at that?
[1:55:42] » Not very much of it, I wouldn't think.
>> Okay. I don't think so. Yeah. No, I I
[1:55:48] again point well taken. I would if if
the pitch of this roof were 125, I would
[1:55:54] I would have no problem with what I
think you're presenting.
[1:55:58] So, you want to stop
[clears throat]
[1:56:01] » even with even with the plate height
staying
[1:56:05] at 8 foot, but we we can also we I I'll
talk, you know, we'll talk after this
[1:56:09] and and
>> so you you're you're proposing that we
[1:56:13] come back with some modifications.
>> Yeah, I think you can you can just
[1:56:17] assess what's most what's going to work
best for you guys without
[1:56:22] » without redoing. I do not like Alex
said, I do think you're 90% there. I
[1:56:26] would not suggest going back to the
drawing board whatsoever on this. I
[1:56:29] think it's more just a couple some some
tweaks on whether you change the roof
[1:56:35] line, lower the plate a little bit. That
could help soften it just a bit.
[1:56:40] » Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I would sum up the window in
[1:56:43] the gable and then lower the plate to
maybe six feet and uh and call it a day.
[1:56:51] Um so are you so you're talking lower
the plate height um and then we would
[1:56:57] have to that because of um the ceiling
height then we would have to go to a
[1:57:00] stick built and do a raised ceiling
joist. Uh but you're you're saying lower
[1:57:06] the plate height a and could you live
with
[1:57:10] slightly higher than six feet like maybe
maybe uh even 6'6 if we lower the pitch
[1:57:15] and put a window in the gable
and then we will raise the ceiling
[1:57:20] joists up to 8 foot inside.
I think I think trust your I think uh
[1:57:28] see how it looks and if it if it's
compelling to
[1:57:32] » right
>> you know what I mean it's almost like
[1:57:35] trust trust we trust that you can figure
out something that looks like you I
[1:57:39] think am I correct that you're hearing
our feedback and that you can perhaps
[1:57:44] explore a couple ideas. Yeah, sure. And
I we have a very tall family which is so
[1:57:48] I'm thinking maybe if we had 6'6 and it
you know with a lower pitch and then
[1:57:52] raising we'll see how that looks and and
that would lower the plate height by 18
[1:57:57] in.
Well, we we can see I just don't want
[1:58:01] the kids to be banging their heads.
>> That's fair. That's fair.
[1:58:04] » They're they're fairly small bedrooms,
so we just want to make sure it's
[1:58:10] usable.
>> Yeah, I can see that. I think it's a
[1:58:14] very, you know, the again the addition
is something that seems like it'll be
[1:58:18] really impactful for you guys without
overwhelming the floor plan of the
[1:58:22] house. It's more just that
>> that massing feel
[1:58:27] understanding kind of the full picture
of the con the context, but we just want
[1:58:31] to respect the house if it were standing
alone.
[1:58:34] » Okay.
>> Okay.
[1:58:37] » All right. Thank you. I cannot and again
I don't think we have didn't uh we can't
[1:58:42] make a motion or anything but do you
guys feel like you got adequate
[1:58:45] feedback?
>> I think so. Jerry, what what do you what
[1:58:50] are your thoughts?
>> Yeah, I feel good.
[1:58:53] » Okay.
>> Are you guys um the the committee did
[1:58:57] you guys want to see this again after
the changes had been made or do you just
[1:59:01] want me to pass this feedback on to the
landmarks commission?
[1:59:07] I think I would prefer to see it again.
>> Agreed.
[1:59:11] » Does that work for you, Jerry? Rebecca,
you guys comfortable bringing it back to
[1:59:15] this committee after the changes have
been explored?
[1:59:17] » Cool.
>> As long as I can be a window guy,
[1:59:21] » I'm in.
>> Fair.
[1:59:26] Um, all right. Right. Well, we will uh
um I guess yeah, just get in touch with
[1:59:30] the with the Landmarks office when
you've you know made the changes are
[1:59:33] ready to come back and we'll get you on
an upcoming agenda uh hopefully towards
[1:59:37] the beginning of it.
>> Awesome. Thank you.
[1:59:41] » Thank you very much.
>> Have a great day.
[1:59:44] » You too.
>> Thank you.
[1:59:48] » All right.
>> I know we don't have quorum uh but
[1:59:50] you're going to have even fewer people.
I have to recuse from this one. Uh so
[1:59:54] I'll be signing off but Understood.
Thank you.
[1:59:58] » I am so have to recuse myself.
>> Oh no. Okay.
[2:00:03] » All right. Nia. Nia. Margaret. It's all
you. [laughter]
[2:00:05] » All you guys
>> guys left us with a difficult one.
[2:00:11] » All right. Thank you. We're sign off.
>> Thanks and Alex. We'll be talking about
[2:00:14] ITV banners, too.
[2:00:20] » Um
>> I glitched out.
[2:00:22] » So, yeah, I think so. I wasn't sure what
happened there, but uh we have case
[2:00:26] HOCC26-36.
Um we have some street banners being
[2:00:31] proposed by Ohio City, Inc. West 25th
and Detroit Avenue. So we've got Lily uh
[2:00:37] Bobman here from OCI. So you want to
walk us through your proposal?
[2:00:42] » Yeah, thanks Dan. Um so essentially we
are hoping to add to the scope of
[2:00:47] banners that we currently have up. So, I
will make this as speedy as possible
[2:00:51] because I know that this has been rather
long, but we in this presentation are
[2:00:55] discussing some additional Ohio City
Incorporated banners over in the
[2:00:58] Hinchtown neighborhood and some
Irishtown Bend banners. Uh, you can hit
[2:01:03] the next slide. Thank you.
So, these are the designs previously
[2:01:08] approved. They are currently uh what's
up. You'll see that in the next slide if
[2:01:13] you um I think this is a fairly
efficient presentation. So, next slide.
[2:01:18] Um, please.
So, these are them up. Um, these are the
[2:01:24] designs you guys approved back in
February. Um, we are just looking to put
[2:01:27] them some in some additional locations.
We already have them printed. They are
[2:01:30] all the same as the ones that are
currently up. Uh, next slide, please.
[2:01:38] So, these are where we are proposing
them. We have about 16 that we are
[2:01:42] looking to put up in the Hinchtown
community or neighborhood part of Ohio
[2:01:46] City. Uh we are moving offices over to
Detroit. We'll be in the Jamestown
[2:01:50] building next to Linda Superret. So we
would like to have some banners there.
[2:01:55] But this is the general layout that
we're looking to install them.
[2:01:59] Next slide.
Um additionally, we would like to pair
[2:02:05] our OCI banners with the proposed ITV
banners. Uh they will be on the west
[2:02:11] side of West 25th directly across from
Irish Town Bend. um which will also be
[2:02:15] across from the Irish Ben banners that
we are hoping to install as well.
[2:02:21] Next slide.
[2:02:24] Um so then these are the Irish Ben
banners.
[2:02:28] Uh next slide.
Here is the proposed design. Um you'll
[2:02:35] see that it's meant to mimic the curve
of Irish Bend and it has all of our um
[2:02:42] what's the word? collaborators on the
banner. So, we have um
[2:02:50] the city of Cleveland Metrop Parks, Land
Studio, and then Ohio City Incorporated.
[2:02:53] And these will go across from the OCI
banners that I just explained.
[2:02:59] The next slide has a map of where we're
looking to put them, but we're proposing
[2:03:03] 13 along West 25th on the east side from
Detroit to about Franklin. And that
[2:03:10] should essentially line the future park
with a banner. The hope is that we'll be
[2:03:15] able to kind of welcome the park, get
people excited about it, and continue to
[2:03:20] bring awareness to it.
[2:03:24] Next, yeah, so essentially to recap, we
are proposing a total of 26 Ohio City
[2:03:28] banners. Uh 16 will be in the Hinchtown
neighborhood, 10 will be on uh West
[2:03:33] 25th, and we are proposing 13 Irish Ben
banners along West 25th as well.
[2:03:42] Thank you all.
[2:03:49] » All right, Margaret, don't be too harsh.
[laughter]
[2:03:54] » Um, you know, I don't have a lot of
comment. It always looks like a lot. It
[2:03:59] looked like a lot the last time on the
maps, but in reality, I think it works
[2:04:04] well. Um,
so yeah, I
[2:04:11] I'm inclined to just,
you know, support it as as it is
[2:04:16] presented here.
[2:04:20] » Nia.
>> Yeah, I agree. I [laughter]
[2:04:25] » beautiful. No, looks great. Approve as
presented even though we can't today,
[2:04:32] but Dan, I don't know what their path
forward looks like without quorum. So
[2:04:37] » yeah, we'll Lily, we'll we can chat and
figure that out, but um seems pretty
[2:04:42] straightforward to me. So
>> me, too. My understanding is it kind of
[2:04:46] just goes to landmarks and then city
planning and then I think we're good.
[2:04:49] » Great.
>> Yeah. Yeah, there's Yeah, I don't know.
[2:04:54] The right of way stuff is its own unique
thing, but we we can chat.
[2:04:59] » Yeah, sounds good to me. Thank you both,
Mia and Margaret and Dan.
[2:05:03] » Thanks. Thanks, Lily.
>> Yeah.
[2:05:06] » All right. Ended with an easy one.
>> Yes.
[2:05:10] » All right.
>> Not too bad on our agenda time for
[2:05:12] another one.
>> I think we did great.
[2:05:15] » Yeah. Hopefully next one will be a
little shorter.
[2:05:18] » I know. I wouldn't mind one of those
like two project agendas again.
[2:05:20] » I know.
>> Or enough people to vote.
[2:05:24] » That would be real nice. That would be
real.
[2:05:27] » And No, no. I mean, myself included,
it's just been a tough
[2:05:31] like several months. But, um, now the
kids are back at school, so I should
[2:05:36] have a much more consistent schedule.
And no, hopefully no injuries. And no,
[2:05:39] » yeah, no more injuries. Yeah.
>> Yes. If we could have no more injuries,
[2:05:41] that would be great. And
then
[2:05:45] » you should see me, my face every other
week.
[2:05:50] » All right. Well, thank you guys. We'll
uh see you in a couple weeks.
[2:05:53] » All right. Thanks, Annie.
>> Thank you.
[2:05:54] » Thank you. Actually, while you're all
really here quickly, um I've been
[2:05:58] digging through historic photos. We have
a few, well, we have like a handful from
[2:06:02] the county archives of homes in the
neighborhood, and I've been able to find
[2:06:06] a few of people's personal homes. So, if
you guys want me to dig for yours, I
[2:06:10] absolutely can. And Dan, on that note, I
owe you a flash drive with all of the
[2:06:14] exact same photos so that city hall can
have a record and not just us.
[2:06:17] » That'd be that'd be awesome.
>> Thank you, I will happy to drop off a
[2:06:21] flash drive if you need one.
I think Ben must have done Ben must Ben
[2:06:27] or someone must have done a deep dive a
long time ago now because I literally
[2:06:31] just looked up our Whitman houses
picture that he had emailed me in maybe
[2:06:34] 2013.
So
[2:06:37] » yeah, my files have it as like one
intern in 2012 was super committed to
[2:06:41] the county archives and like digitizing
things and they did a really insane job
[2:06:46] because I scroll and I'm like this has
to be at least 400
[2:06:50] » properties probably more.
internship.
[2:06:54] » Yeah, exactly.
>> So fun.
[2:06:57] » Especially because that was that was
before the archives moved and so you
[2:07:01] could be like on Franklin in the
atmosphere. Oh
[2:07:06] » yeah. Ah, the good old days.
>> The good old days. Exactly.
[2:07:10] [laughter]
[2:07:13] » Let me know if you Yeah. If you want me
to drop off a flash drive, we'd love to
[2:07:16] have those.
>> Yeah, if you have one, that'd be great
[2:07:19] because our office is a show at the
moment. So that would make getting that
[2:07:23] to you much easier.
>> Awesome. I will uh I'll put that You
[2:07:26] guys are still on Lorraine right now?
>> Okay, cool. I'll get one over.
[2:07:31] » Beautiful.
>> Thank you.
[2:07:33] » Yeah. Thank you all. I hope you have a
lovely rest of your day. Bye. You too.
[2:07:36] You too. Thanks all. Bye. Bye.
>> Bye.