1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,680 I'll call the meeting officially uh starting uh to order at 9:03. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:14,760 Um attending, we have myself, George 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:24,000 Frampton, and Denise Samya. We have Bonnie Reemsnyder as a guest and First 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:28,640 Selectwoman Martha Shoemaker. Um Yeah, so attendance 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:33,680 usually is the shortest. Today, it might be the longest 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:38,160 agenda item, but so we were just talking about Denise before 7 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:42,600 you came in. So, right now, we 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:47,160 have um 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:52,720 three of us and Todd are the official uh members of the committee. And so, 10 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:59,960 there's really two openings cuz Jim Cuoto has resigned, unfortunately, cuz 11 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:03,640 he can't make the meetings. So, um 12 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:09,280 in order to keep balance there would you we would be allowed to 13 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:15,120 appoint one more Democrat. But uh and at right now, Bonnie is 14 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:21,120 interested. She has a submitted an application. 15 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:25,440 Fred um Fenton from Affordable Housing is interested. I 16 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:31,400 I just sent him a note yesterday indicating that if he wanted to apply he 17 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:36,440 should send an application in for the Board of Selectmen. So, those are the 18 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:42,400 two slots and we were just talking about Todd has never 19 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:46,680 come or responded to any of our emails. Now, I looking at the law, too, at some 20 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:51,080 point the Board of Selectmen have the authority to remove them for poor 21 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,720 attendance. At least that's what I saw in the law. 22 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,960 Is that true? >> I 23 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,720 I I'm I'm I'm assuming you're referring to a Connecticut General Statute. 24 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:05,440 » Yeah. >> I would have to go back to redo that, 25 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:09,800 but I will tell you this that I believe Howard, it comes before 26 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:15,480 the chair the chairs of a committee to send a 27 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:20,680 letter to the Board of Selectmen. So, I told just said to you, I will let me 28 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,480 email Rob because Rob is the chair of planning to say 29 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,240 » you're you know 30 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,160 » Right. >> And if Howard wants to take his place, 31 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,360 that's fine. We can appoint Howard. I mean, um Harold. 32 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,440 » Yeah. >> But some we need somebody from planning. 33 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,480 » Right. Okay. All right. 34 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,640 » Howard and I uh uh 35 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:42,280 Howard and And I talked a little bit about 36 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:46,280 the value of trying to get the economic development 37 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,680 commission to participate with one or two 38 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,320 » I can >> people. Um 39 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,640 I mean, I think that ideally that would That's 40 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,440 » I I did >> speak for, but 41 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,120 » Uh >> Right. 42 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:02,680 » I don't know what the sort of Democrat Republican composition there is or 43 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:06,680 » That's if you add to if we add more, we just have to change your chart. We just 44 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:11,040 have to change the original draft of the mission of the group because we put what 45 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:16,440 the group was going to be made of. We would have to just revise that, and then 46 00:03:12,959 --> 00:03:18,280 we would vote on it, and we and again um 47 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,239 it there are 48 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:28,840 It always is helpful if I can get a formal request from the co-chairs, not 49 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:33,320 an informal email, but a formal email saying, "We would like to request that 50 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:38,000 we add to this committee two members of EDC." And then 51 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,120 and just make it that. Nothing else in the email. 52 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,200 » Okay. >> And send it to me, and then I can bring 53 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,640 that to the Board of Selectmen on Monday I Tuesday next week if you would like. 54 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,519 » Well, we could do that. The question is what do you think? Do you think this is 55 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,880 I'm not I'm I'm raising it to see whether it's a 56 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,920 good idea or not. >> I I have other thoughts. 57 00:03:54,440 --> 00:04:00,760 » I would think the first thing I would do is consult with Joe Kamin and see if he 58 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:04,640 thinks it's a good idea cuz he's the chair of the EDC. 59 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:08,720 » Well, I did I did send him a letter. I think you were copied, too, 60 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:13,680 uh indicating that yeah, we thought it would be a good idea for them 61 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:17,680 uh to um 62 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:21,959 get involved to involved and he sent me I sent it to to see if I 63 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:27,280 brought that with me. Uh I know that said 64 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:32,080 he had two concerns. One 65 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:37,720 was they're focused right now on uh filling vacancies and then secondly 66 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:43,840 he was concerned about the new law that uh requires allows housing in 67 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:48,600 commercial districts and they think that would 68 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:52,880 reduce the amount of uh uh potential 69 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:56,880 commercial district property. So, I wrote back and I said 70 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:01,640 you're right, but that's exactly the reason why your voice should be heard 71 00:04:58,919 --> 00:05:08,080 because we're deliberate and we want to make sure those kind of considerations 72 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:12,000 are taken into account. So, and I also said if you're 73 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,800 trying to um 74 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:18,160 focus on I know their main one of their other 75 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:21,560 main focuses is to try to have young people come back to 76 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,000 town, you know, who leave, 77 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:31,960 you know, where are they going to live? And that's important. And kind of 78 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:35,960 quoted the RiverCOG economic uh development 79 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:40,000 study that they did and showing that, you know, 80 00:05:36,919 --> 00:05:42,320 shortage of housing is directly related to 81 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,480 uh the uh economic development in the whole 82 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:50,720 region and that's why one of the main reasons why it hasn't 83 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:55,440 been growing. So, you know, it to me to me that 84 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:58,640 they should have a voice and it's important because everything we do with 85 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:03,320 housing has involved in economic growth. So, 86 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,560 he wrote back and >> Yeah, so go ahead. Go ahead. 87 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:10,360 » I'll just finish finish He just wrote back and said he'll put it on his agenda 88 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:12,280 and see who would be interested. >> So, he had a meeting last night. 89 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,680 » Okay. >> But I don't know 90 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,760 » Yeah. >> if they had it on the agenda. I have to 91 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,200 go back and look. I don't have my phone with me for a second. I'll check it. 92 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,760 » Yeah. So, >> So, I have concerns about it just 93 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:28,480 because of the original charge of the committee, which is really to focus on 94 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:34,600 uh the the charge isn't to like, you know, do a housing plan for the town 95 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:38,880 per se. Um the charge is that we've got the three commissions that are speaking 96 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:44,000 to each other that are really really engaged with this. Um 97 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,200 every time the law changes up in Hartford, 98 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:50,560 » if we start bringing in a commission that it could affect, so for example, 99 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:55,760 commercial. Yes, it impacts economic development. But I know 100 00:06:53,040 --> 00:07:00,720 that when they wrote that law on the TOD, transit-oriented development piece, 101 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,160 they didn't want it to go to Wetlands Commission. 102 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:08,919 I testified and made I didn't just testify. I worked with the people who 103 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:12,960 were putting in the TOD. At that time it was called uh Segregate Desegregate 104 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:16,520 Connecticut. Now it's Pro Pro-Housing, I think, Connecticut or Pro 105 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:20,040 Homes Connecticut. They changed their name. 106 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:26,400 Um and I said Wetlands has to be in there. Wetlands has to be in the act, in 107 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:29,120 the TOD thing, which it is. Um but they wanted to do it. So, then it would be 108 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:33,320 like, "Oh, do we need to have the Wetland Commission here?" So, I guess 109 00:07:30,919 --> 00:07:36,840 I'm looking at what do we really need this group to do? Are we the ones who 110 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,000 like cuz we're the ones who are communicating with COG and then 111 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:44,760 communicating back to the core commissions that are working on this. 112 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:48,680 I'm thinking when we need to hear from economic development, we invite them in. 113 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:54,840 But, do we need everybody at the table every time cuz it's like we need cuz 114 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:59,400 otherwise we need, you know, the um aging commission here. We need the, you 115 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:04,120 know, the you know, there's so many people in housing impacts every area. 116 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,480 So, I appreciate that, you know, we had started talking about economic 117 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:12,000 development because of the plan and we didn't think it talked about housing 118 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:16,960 quite the right way. But, I guess I'm I guess I would, you know, kind of 119 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:20,760 question like opening it up just to them and changing the charge. So, I guess I 120 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:25,560 was looking at what do we really need to do here cuz we 121 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:30,000 really need to be focused on this housing growth plan 122 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:34,760 with um River Cog and I think we're getting in 123 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:37,640 all the feedback, but I don't want, you know, um 124 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,000 and I think that this is the place to do it, but I guess I So, I don't I have 125 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,005 questions. >> I'm just going to say that you're not 126 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,839 sticking to your agenda. >> [laughter] 127 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:51,120 » And you really need to follow that. You did attendance and then you went off on 128 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:54,960 this. I think you need to follow >> Okay. 129 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:59,280 » and then you can get to it when you get I guess new business and housing. 130 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:03,240 » Well, we were seeking I think it was still technically under attendance of 131 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:07,200 who who should >> And you don't have anything on here 132 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:10,320 about adding new members. So, you really can't just 133 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:14,080 » Well, it's it's where I attendance was kind of a broad thing of 134 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,200 » do that. Attendance is my agenda. >> All right. So, 135 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:22,640 um well, can we if we assume for a moment 136 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:27,360 that we're not going to expand right away to we're going to try to keep 137 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:32,000 this the three commissions, then what what are the options here for 138 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:36,760 getting a six or five person group that has the right 139 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:41,680 balance? What what I mean >> We just talked about We did talk about 140 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:47,680 the fact that we have two applications well one application and from zoning 141 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:51,760 which is Bonnie and supposedly Fred is coming in from affordable housing. The 142 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:56,920 problem is is we have a minority representation problem if the both of 143 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,960 those people apply. I still I can't not appoint both. 144 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,880 So >> Well, I'm saying where where I 145 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:09,560 understand that but hold on so we're kind of getting off But I would we could 146 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:13,400 do this. You someone could make a motion to change the agenda to put this 147 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,000 to put it You can't you can't you can't on Oh, 148 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,480 that's right. It's a special. Okay. All right. 149 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:26,000 So let's postpone that for now. >> So yeah, if we want to talk about then 150 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,400 we need to talk about it in at the October meeting and just put it 151 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:33,160 on the agenda. >> Okay, let's do that. Yeah, we'll do 152 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:39,120 that. We'll put it on. I I Okay, well we'll wait till we get to 153 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:45,280 RiverCOG but I'll go on. Okay, approval of minutes from June 26th. 154 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,680 The minute to a motion to accept the minutes. 155 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,040 » I so move. >> Okay. 156 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,720 » Second. >> Second. 157 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:55,960 Any discussion? All in favor, I. 158 00:10:54,839 --> 00:11:00,600 I. Any any opposed? No. Any abstentions? 159 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,760 No. Okay, public comment. Anyone? 160 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,160 Okay. Anyone online? 161 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:13,880 Um Okay, reports from 162 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:18,440 RiverCOG housing and planning. Um the 163 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:24,440 planning commission did not meet last week so there's no new update from that. 164 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:29,720 Uh both the RiverCOG housing did meet and it was 165 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:35,360 in person and we had Old Lyme had 166 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:40,800 four people there, myself, George, 167 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:45,480 Fred Friend from affordable housing, and Eric. 168 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:48,880 And basically, what they did was 169 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:53,440 go through the uh 170 00:11:50,560 --> 00:12:00,480 the process they're using for uh assessing need and that formula. 171 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,800 And um I'll give my take on it, and then 172 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:08,480 George, if you want to add what your take is. But so, the process they have 173 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:13,360 it what they're trying to do is determine 174 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:18,480 what are the housing needs for each municipality. 175 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:24,160 And this isn't a RiverCOG process, it's not a state process, it's one used 176 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:30,920 across the country. So, it's a pretty standard process that they use. 177 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:35,240 And there's a number of factors I don't I don't think we should get into weeds 178 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:41,760 with this right now until we we will later when we actually get the 179 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:45,440 uh report from RiverCOG with the numbers. 180 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:49,320 But it all it is is a way of saying, "Gee, 181 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:53,960 you know, how does each municipality determine what their housing needs are?" 182 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:57,600 So, you need some kind of process to do that. And this is kind of the standard 183 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,280 process. It is not I can see headlines all over, 184 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:10,839 you know, "Old Lyme needs 340 houses." 185 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:15,120 It's not a mandate. It's not um it's not the state telling you this is 186 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:19,800 what you must do. All it is is 187 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:25,240 help you plan. And at the end of the day, what what the 188 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:30,520 deliverables will be to the state are what what are your housing needs, and 189 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:33,960 they want to see a plan. So, again, this is under 190 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:38,880 P-25-1. And, you know, as people described it, 191 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:46,880 8-30G is kind of the stick. Uh P-25-1 192 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:51,720 is kind of the carrot. So, there's no penalties like in 8-30G, 193 00:13:49,880 --> 00:14:00,680 you know, where you If you don't meet 10%, then developers have the right to 194 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:05,560 bypass some of the zoning laws. So, um they do use a number of factors. 195 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:11,640 They use, you know, number of households, age distribution, 196 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:16,120 income, blah blah blah. Like I said, I don't think we should get in the weeds 197 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:20,000 on this today. Wait till we get it, and then we'll be talking a lot about it. 198 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,000 So, um 199 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,880 that's my take on it. George, do you have anything to add? 200 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:31,400 » they demonstrated the model that they're using. 201 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:35,240 And what I think there were some questions at the end 202 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,920 that didn't really get answered 203 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:43,600 uh by people who said, "Well, okay, you're assessing, you know, the total 204 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:50,200 number of housing units, how full they are, how vacant they are, 205 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:55,839 um population increases, decreases, but where do you Where are you going to 206 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:59,560 factor in the economics of this? In other words, where How are you going to 207 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:03,839 take all this analysis about the number of housing units that are available and 208 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:07,640 need to be available 10 years from now and are likely or not likely to be in 209 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:12,560 that mark, and put that together, integrate that 210 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:16,720 together with, you know, at what level affordability 211 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:21,720 does this housing need to be? And I think there that's going to be 212 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:26,760 that's it's going to be so easy when they get to it. Or rather, it's they're 213 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,600 going to come up with something. But but the 214 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,200 where [clears throat] it comes from, the clarity of what the basis for it was is 215 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:39,480 going to be a lot of probably planner planning type judgments 216 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:43,360 about these things. So, I don't know that in the end 217 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:48,720 we're going to get from them we're going to get numbers, you know, 218 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:52,680 here's some here so many housing units in a certain 219 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:56,760 price that you're going to need to have 5 or 10 years from now relative to what 220 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,400 you have now. Um 221 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:05,680 but whether that, you know, really communicates much in the way of a plan 222 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,200 for a community, I I don't know. I don't I'm I'm 223 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,200 I'm skeptical that it's they're going to 224 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:17,240 give us something that really is very 225 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:21,600 very useful in terms of specific planning that communities should do. 226 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:25,520 And if they do, I'm concerned that it's going to be 227 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:29,760 built on some some judgments or factors that are somewhat arbitrary 228 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,720 that they bring up because it's generic to everybody in the state or the 229 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:38,680 country. So, you know, I came away thinking 230 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:45,320 you know, there's going to be quite a an opportunity for each town to do a plan 231 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:49,240 that is going to look different from what we're going to get from them or an 232 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:53,520 attempt to say, "Well, okay, we recognize here the needs that you have 233 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:58,160 described here." But we have our own idea about how this 234 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:01,839 town can or cannot meet those needs and how to go about it. 235 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:05,199 I don't know if that's a fair >> Yeah, but but the but the numbers aren't 236 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,720 going to be the same for every town. >> They'll be different every town. Yeah. 237 00:17:07,199 --> 00:17:13,640 Yeah, they'll be different. And I like I say, I 238 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:17,959 my feeling has look every town, you know, you have to 239 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:22,439 determine what your housing needs are. So, how are you going to do that? This 240 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:26,920 is kind of the standard process that the country all across the 241 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:30,120 country. So, yeah, there are flaws. There's flaws in every system. But, you 242 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,600 know, you know So, 243 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:37,080 I recognize exactly what you're saying, and those are the things we have to 244 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:40,560 consider, but I don't I don't see it more than that. You know, it's a 245 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,320 starting point to give >> Yeah, that's just 246 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:47,200 » And that's all it is. That's all it is. >> I mean, it this is a template. It's my 247 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:51,520 understanding is that we can use it as a template to formulate our own plan. So, 248 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,520 I think it will have some useful information that we can use. Right. We 249 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:59,280 have to go out and collect all that data. But, I certainly think that we 250 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,320 need to see what's best for Allendale in the 251 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:10,880 long run, and that's always going to be the top priority. Never. Hello, guest. 252 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:16,280 I I just I listened to the meeting at the state level. 253 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:22,920 And I think that that at that meeting they recognized that applying overall a 254 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:26,320 rule to the whole state is not good, which is why they brought in the 255 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:31,520 regions. And that's better 256 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:36,960 because each region is so very dynamically different. 257 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:42,440 But, it was my understanding that the regional 258 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:48,120 directors in general recognized also that even applying a 259 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:53,600 blanket to a region is hard, but 260 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:58,240 I think what they were trying to do is to give towns 261 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:05,200 a reasonable starting point when they determine what 262 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:10,880 their own individual needs are. And it's probably more about getting the 263 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:16,200 towns to talk about it and focus on it than it is Because let's face it, 264 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:21,320 for decades, the towns have ignored the 10% rule. 265 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:26,800 It just it's not in anyone's primary thought process who's in office. It's 266 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:31,680 just because it's many times it's not achievable. The ones 267 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:37,920 that really have to struggle with it are the bigger cities or the bigger the 268 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:42,920 communities. So, this is really bringing it down to a bite that we can 269 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:48,960 handle more. And I think it's going to be very, very important to convey when 270 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:54,240 they come down with those numbers, that wait a minute, you have to understand 271 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:59,680 it's a bigger picture and now we talk the smaller talk. 272 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:04,800 Once we get that, we can start Maybe that's a bite our town can start working 273 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:08,240 with. And we have to just keep repeating that cuz people are going to grab onto a 274 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:12,200 number and they're going to say, "This is crazy. Look what they're trying to 275 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,840 do." And we're going to become the bad guys. 276 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:20,120 » But I think with the number, this is one of the things that Mike O'Gliano was 277 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:25,000 really emphasizing with us, was that they're going to plug in, come to us, 278 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:29,440 but with the numbers before the numbers are out, they're going to be working 279 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:34,400 with the town and saying, "Okay, let's say, does this make sense given that 280 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:38,120 we have this much housing, but so much of it is seasonal, or maybe it's 281 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:42,560 converting from seasonal to not seasonal anymore." So, those are the types So, we 282 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:46,080 have a unique situation. So, there's the ability to say, "Here's the numbers that 283 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:50,120 you've given us, but we have this factor, this factor, this factor in our 284 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,720 town, and the numbers can be changed." >> Exactly. 285 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:56,400 » So, so that's what I'm saying. They're starting with a template. They're going 286 00:20:54,560 --> 00:21:00,240 to be giving it to us. We're going to be massaging that template with, you know, 287 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,440 based on what I You know, those types of things. Mike was, you know, very And I 288 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:09,600 think one of the things looking at, for example, the affordable housing plan 289 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:14,240 that we have. Because, you know, they did a real 290 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:18,400 thorough review of where we could build, where we can't build, that kind 291 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:22,720 of stuff. They really took took a a hard look at that. And I don't want to just 292 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:26,760 jump to saying like, "Oh, we have to do our own plan." We're going to be working 293 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:33,080 with RiverCOG every step of the way. If 294 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:37,760 something ends up that, you know, we don't want to go with the plan, but the 295 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:41,240 plan is not They're not developing the plan and giving it to us. They're 296 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,760 They're developing it with the people who are on the committee. And and and 297 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,040 supposedly, and I'm saying thinking, once the numbers come out, that's where 298 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:52,480 we invite them to this committee and say, "What do those numbers mean? What 299 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,880 do we How do we want to change that?" You know, are there things And it should 300 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,440 not only go to this committee. We should We should I mean, one of the charges of 301 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,680 our committee is bringing it back to the committees we sit on. 302 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,800 And then coming back here and talking. What does planning What does zoning 303 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,440 think about this? What does planning think about this? What does affordable 304 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,440 housing think about this? >> It it 305 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:15,880 One of the factors they do I mean, it's a pretty 306 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:19,840 decent process. So, they One of the factors is seasonal. So, they do take 307 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:24,800 that into account. So, they've taken a lot of things. And I like I 308 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:29,760 I guess final word on this is it's not the end point, it's a starting point. 309 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:35,280 You know, I always worry about the headlines. Old Lyme given a quota to 310 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:38,000 build 350 houses, that's not what this says. 311 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:42,160 I just want to go ahead. >> Well, so the the one thing I guess 312 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,600 before as we're talking about this, the one thing that obviously we have a big 313 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:50,360 boy Are Do we have any of the appointment 314 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,840 officially to COG now on the housing? We needed Is Is Bonnie here? 315 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,760 » Bonnie. Okay. >> Yes, and Howard 316 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,280 » I couldn't I couldn't make >> No, I'm on planning. 317 00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:00,400 » My schedule was already in place before I was appointed to all these 318 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:06,120 » Okay. >> Now, it the housing and planning 319 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:11,120 » it's important to put that in our notes. It is It is the housing and planning 320 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:16,320 commissions are open to anyone attending. So, I have 321 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:20,200 been attending the housing as well as planning and anyone here or anyone else 322 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:26,000 can attend. Yeah. >> And Sheila's still there as well. 323 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:30,040 » It does bring up a point which we mentioned before. 324 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:34,920 We're going to have that Who is actually going to do the housing plan? I mean, 325 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:38,920 there's options. This committee could do it. 326 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:42,960 I know Eric is always kind of said planning if the housing plan planning 327 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:47,480 should do it. Zoning could potentially do it. So, 328 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,800 what's your feeling of who's going to do it? 329 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,160 » I think we need to have when we get some more information to 330 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,200 what it's like. >> Okay. So, you're it's still open at this 331 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:03,160 point, you're saying. Okay. >> I do believe that there should be many 332 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:07,280 voices at the table. It's not going to be thrown to one commission, but it's 333 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,840 going to have to be many voices. Maybe it's the Board of 334 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,440 Selectmen with commission chairs. I'm not sure yet. 335 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,440 » Okay. 336 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:21,080 » That's one of the reasons we formed this committee so that everybody was talking 337 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:25,520 during the same meetings because you're going back to your individual committees 338 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:30,120 and sharing this information with them. Um so, that we will get as much feedback 339 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:34,000 as possible. I think that it would be helpful 340 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:38,040 when you go back to your committees and you get their feedback, I think you 341 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:42,440 should be coming to this committee and saying, "This is what planning saying. 342 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,360 When I gave my report, these are the questions they had. When I was at 343 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:50,560 affordable housing, I shared what's happening. This is what they said. I 344 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:55,400 think this is what zoning says." You should be bringing back your 345 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:59,480 commission and maybe asking your commission chairs to put you on the 346 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:03,680 agenda for a monthly update every time you meet just so that you are sharing 347 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,800 what you're hearing. >> So, there should that's the 348 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:10,600 communication we had anticipated that you're sharing with 349 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:15,040 them, they're bringing questions and they're sending questions back with you 350 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:19,800 to this group or that you're asking at RiverCOG so that they can get the 351 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,600 information because not everybody can be at every meeting. 352 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:28,200 » Yeah, and it's only we've done that. We have it as a standing item on our agenda 353 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:32,320 now and we're also making sure they get that everybody on the commission gets a 354 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:37,160 copy of the minutes. Because that the minutes are really 355 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:41,000 important and and when we first started um Mike Furliano had gone over 356 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,480 everything that was happening at RiverCOG. So, we actually have some sets 357 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,880 of minutes that really have some details in them that would be really worth 358 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,120 sharing if you haven't shared those with and make sure that you know, it's it's 359 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,720 one thing to say like, oh, we have minutes if you want to look at them. I 360 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:58,080 make sure they get [clears throat] shared. I I have Yeah, Eric should be 361 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:02,400 sending them out. We have told him that from the zoning perspective. So, 362 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,560 and I'll make sure that that happens. I I make sure that happens for the zoning 363 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,560 commission. >> Or even if he shares it with me and I'll 364 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,520 share it with the commission chairs. I mean, to say you should be sharing this 365 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,280 with your committee. >> Yeah. 366 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,040 » I don't want to email the entire committee, but I would be more than 367 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,680 happy to do it to chairs. >> Okay. 368 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:24,080 I would say I I I I think you know, Eric I check I don't 369 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,600 know if it was if there's a staff assigned to affordable housing, but he's 370 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:33,480 assigned to planning and zoning and it might just planning and to zoning. And 371 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,160 for him to get those minutes out to those two groups should not be a burden. 372 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,240 He sends stuff out to the other groups all the time. So, 373 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:47,040 » Okay. Uh I think that takes care of both uh 374 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,840 RiverCOG, planning and housing if you don't 375 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:54,520 » I I have one last question. So, they're working on this model. Did they say when 376 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,920 they were going to get it out to the 377 00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:00,560 » It sounded like they were putting the numbers in and getting them out pretty 378 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,400 quickly now. >> they didn't have they they haven't gone 379 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,560 out yet. >> Yeah. 380 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:10,400 » Are they I know that they had sent some other stuff out earlier. 381 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,960 Um, and I was Was there anything that we needed to review or was that just kind 382 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,280 of an update about where they were? They had sent out something. 383 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,920 Um >> They sent out some homework. 384 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,360 » Yeah. And was that anything we needed to review? Cuz that's what I'm saying. I'm 385 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,600 thinking the riddle card stuff that gets sent out. Do we need to turn say like 386 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,480 did all the homework get done? Are we Did we provide them with everything that 387 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,520 needed? That's one of the things I'd love to make sure. When they send 388 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,480 homework, it's like this committee should be making sure that it's getting 389 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:42,640 done and and they know that. >> I did receive a note from um 390 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,480 What's her name? Elise. >> Eliza. 391 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:49,880 » Eliza. And apparently she said 392 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:54,720 they did send a question I could have just They They requested 393 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:59,000 something from the town and if I knew about it and I said I haven't 394 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,760 received it. So, I don't know >> I don't I don't think I received that 395 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:02,840 either. >> Yeah. So, I don't 396 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,400 » They sent it out a couple of days ago. >> Yeah. So, I don't 397 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:10,880 » I question in my mind. I haven't put it >> I don't know what she 398 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:15,680 It could be with Eric. It could it be 399 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,080 » They did require some housing numbers, but that was like a month or six weeks 400 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,520 ago. They did went in and gave those types of 401 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:23,560 things that were through the assessor's office. They worked together on that 402 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,760 information. >> So, you'll check the 403 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:31,120 » it would be just as good if we knew that kind of communication that's happening 404 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:36,640 so that we can stay on top of like and it might be worth 405 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,880 that if there's asking the town for something even if it and Martha, you 406 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,160 you're it's so great that you can be here, but I know that that might not 407 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:49,400 always be the case for you to be in this room when we meet. Um, it would be good 408 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:54,720 I think, if you know, Howard is chair of this committee or maybe Howard and 409 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:58,840 Bonnie as the two reps to the um uh committees um 410 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:02,080 that RiverCOG also get copied in every any requests of the town, just so that 411 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,600 we know what's going on. I mean, we could ask for that. 412 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:11,400 » Yeah, I think in most cases they'll send it to their housing the housing um 413 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:14,320 advisors from the towns and reps from the town and then they send it always to 414 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,600 all the selectmen. >> And we might just follow in a little bit 415 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,120 in the hole with my transition. 416 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,960 » Yeah, right. It it As far as the homework was concerned, 417 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,800 there was a video that they requested us to look at, which I did watch. Um it was 418 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:34,280 like 45 minutes long or something and it was 419 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:38,760 the state meeting with various people and their discussion 420 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:44,760 about housing. Um it seemed like 421 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:52,080 a a lot of their discussion and Sam went over it somewhat when it came to zoning. 422 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:57,160 They were talking in in general terms. I think I mentioned this to you. In 423 00:29:53,640 --> 00:30:03,560 general terms about housing and not so much about affordable housing. And I 424 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:07,480 think we talked about that that that's to make it more palatable, but 425 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:12,080 um but it that was the first time I was 426 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:17,000 watching it, so I'm I'm you know, listening to it in that vein. 427 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,240 » I'm trying to remember cuz I went over everything that she sent, but it was a 428 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:25,640 month ago. I think it was in July, actually, that 429 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:31,360 she sent it. So, I I just have to look at it quickly. I didn't um 430 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:36,200 I but I know I did the homework. >> law and what seems to be the momentum 431 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,040 that's coming from the state through RiverCOG 432 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:43,200 for us is is very focused on, you know, middle 433 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,920 housing. >> Yeah. 434 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,640 » Trying to get away from strictly affordable housing. 435 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:52,560 » Yeah. >> And it's not I don't think it's clear in 436 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:56,560 the law what a single parcel is, so they've now penetrated you know, all 437 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:03,120 » Right. >> commercial zoning in the in the state by 438 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:08,000 saying you have to allow up to nine units in your commercial zones, but 439 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,160 whether what the size of the piece of property is is unclear. 440 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:16,280 » Mhm. >> So, if I were to buy Cherry Stones 441 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:20,240 and split it up into six different parcels and sell it to six different 442 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:26,840 LLCs, could I then build 56 housing units? 443 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,800 I don't think that's perfectly clear. >> Mhm. 444 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:34,160 » So, uh, you know, but the emphasis seems to be to try to get away from 445 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,480 it's really talking about affordability in a very broader way. 446 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,920 » And accessibility. >> important for the politics of 447 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,960 » Well, the yeah. >> here, I assume. 448 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,960 » Yeah, the discussion in Hartford and what has 449 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:52,480 what leadership is believing because it's been provided information 450 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:58,120 national information has nothing to do with Connecticut, national information 451 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,920 um, on housing that if you create more housing in general, it will 452 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,800 » Right. >> you know, you'll have a more affordable 453 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,880 housing. >> Right. 454 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:12,360 » This other studies that disregard >> talking about that. That 455 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,760 » want to have 10% more than you need. >> Yeah, or 5% or whatever the percentage 456 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:22,160 was. >> Go higher and that if you have a vacancy 457 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:26,800 rate of this, then everybody cuz that creates competition and I think that 458 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,560 that's a little worrisome to people who own property. 459 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:33,360 » So, just as so for those you don't know, I have a 460 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:36,760 degree in environmental economics, so I look at this, 461 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:41,320 looked up some other studies. There's studies out there that were very 462 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:45,120 very very specific. One out of Um well, there was a couple couple 463 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,400 places. One was out of Harvard, one was out of someplace in the Midwest. I can't 464 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:53,040 remember the which where it was, but they basically 465 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:56,880 said no. Trickle-down economics doesn't work for housing when you have strong 466 00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,040 housing markets like we have here in Connecticut. We have a strong extremely 467 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,480 strong housing market. You know, people complain about real estate and whatever, 468 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:07,040 but we have an extreme We We haven't had, 469 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:11,160 you know, any real challenges with our housing market in Connecticut. 470 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:15,240 » Except lack of >> Well, yeah, that's a whole That's except 471 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:20,880 lack of, but in terms of the the value and whatever. So, we have such 472 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:26,280 a strong market, that's where it doesn't it absolutely does it. And what happens 473 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:29,600 is the lowest it raises rents. Market prices are driven by the high end of the 474 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,200 market. And that's the problem with them 475 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:37,360 thinking just increasing and when you're increasing supply in Connecticut, it's 476 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:41,760 about people having two houses. You know, people having a house in Greenwich 477 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:46,000 and people having a house here. People having houses, you know, someplace else 478 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:52,000 and having a house in the Litchfield Hills. So, they you know, they 479 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,800 do different things and it's interesting. 480 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,920 » You know, people Or people investing to to land. 481 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,760 » investing. Well, they're flipping the the flip market. They They invest the 482 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:04,480 rent and they put in the flip market is just incredible. And so, you know, 483 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:08,720 addressing some of those issues really is where they need to go. That needs to 484 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:12,600 come out loud and clear when we're talking with River Cog and whatever. Um 485 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:17,760 there are there are some of us who are working on 486 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:22,399 that. But so, I think, you know, when we when we talk about this, 487 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:26,000 we need to understand what what what Hartford at this point believes, but 488 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:30,200 they need some education on that. And that start and that thing is the 489 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:34,320 legislature as well as in the governor's office. They don't you know, they're 490 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:38,000 they're looking at studies and studies have been been provided to them by the 491 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,679 Home Builders Association, by the Realtors Association, 492 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:47,040 but they're all national and it's all very, very generic stuff. 493 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,879 » Of course they want more houses. They want to make more money. 494 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,080 » I would suggest we move on. We're kind of getting up 495 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:55,200 Okay, we're up to old >> of the how we're getting this plan 496 00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:00,240 solved, so. >> Yeah, but Okay, old 497 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:07,160 old business. So, could um so many people kind of 498 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:13,640 bring us up to date where we are with the zoning rewrite and the whole process 499 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:17,240 now I know you've gone through having uh 500 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,440 input from the public and where does that all stand and what's happening with 501 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:24,120 the survey and >> Yeah, so we've left the survey open cuz 502 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,600 it seems to be you know, okay to leave it open. I think 503 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:33,320 at first um the consultant was looking at having 504 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:37,920 the survey help drive questions at the workshops we've been having, but kind of 505 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:41,480 they they're almost kind of separate like, you know, again it's it's some 506 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:45,440 people come to workshops have taken the survey, but there's a whole lot more 507 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,000 people on the survey than are at the workshop, so. 508 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:52,440 » Can I ask, do you know how many people have taken the survey? 509 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,920 » Um it's over 500 now. I think, so I don't know the exact number. It will 510 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,120 probably get >> number to me. I think it's a low number 511 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:02,280 considering the number of households in the town, but I will um 512 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,920 you know, push it again in my newsletter just to 513 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,840 » absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean I think you continue to push it. It's still open 514 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,400 as far as unless they closed it this week. As far as I know it's still open. 515 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:15,080 » I'll check on that. >> If it's closed this week, then it can be 516 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:20,480 it can be I mean I think it's important not to for that 517 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:25,160 you know, at the um uh 518 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:31,760 working group that I didn't go to that uh you did last week, week before last. 519 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:35,720 Um, the consultant sort of suggested that 520 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:42,400 what the public wanted was reflected by the clickers at the at the workshop. You 521 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:45,560 know, which is very um, I mean basically two-thirds of the people there were 522 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:50,480 called out to you know, take a position. And so I 523 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:55,720 think getting the survey out is going to be so much better 524 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:58,840 reflects what it may be. I agree it's better. Be nice to get another couple 525 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:03,160 hundred people to do it. But you're probably not going to do that over the 526 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:10,760 next couple months and I think getting that out as the best snapshot for the 527 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:13,240 moment um, is is probably a priority. I don't know what the zoning 528 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:18,760 » Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm my Yeah, my concern was the same as 529 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:22,520 George's that you know, cuz they summarized 530 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:27,120 what happened at the workshop as that's what the public wanted and we haven't 531 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,400 » I didn't see that but I'm going to be really upset with you guys if that's 532 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,360 what the zoning commission said. That's not what I 533 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:35,080 » So that's what I was >> Who made that statement? 534 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:36,360 That's what the public wanted, was it? >> Pardon me? 535 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,920 » No, no. >> It just gave the impression that Yeah. 536 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,440 » summarized what happened at the workshop. 537 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:47,920 » Francis Francisca >> He didn't say the public in general. He 538 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:51,800 said the people who attended the meeting said this. He didn't make any, you know, 539 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,160 so it's like this. The people who attended the meeting, this is what they 540 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,120 said. This is That's a whole different discussion than what that's what the 541 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,400 public said. >> Well, what are the plans for the survey? 542 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:05,560 » Uh, well, we'll be once we get those then we'll you know, he'll be looking at 543 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:09,440 saying like, okay, how do those reflect you know, they're the same type of 544 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,600 questions. So it's like how do you That said, it doesn't have the like, oh, I 545 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,400 like this house or I like this house. I think people got too tied down into 546 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,840 like, you know, deciding the aesthetics of a house. 547 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,560 » They showed 10 different houses. All of which 548 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,240 your average person would say, I don't like that very much. 549 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,360 » I know. Well, it was one of those things that the aesthetics of the house and 550 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,960 he's done that. He goes, "A lot of times this is about aesthetics." 551 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,680 It was and and it wasn't necessarily the house itself. It was sometimes 552 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:40,280 Yeah, we had that discussion. It was sometimes about the neighborhood. So, 553 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:45,040 anyway, with the process, we've had two um you know 554 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:49,320 uh two two forums, community forums. Uh well, hotel one on 10. We have 555 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,120 another one September 15th. Um and that will will kind of be on the 556 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:56,320 commercial um as well as a few other little things 557 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,760 about I think signage and stuff like that, but mostly focused on the 558 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:03,920 commercial zone. Um we've had the follow-up focus groups with the with 559 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,840 both of those and gotten some some feedback and you know, shared the 560 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,640 information that we collected at the community workshop. 561 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:15,040 One of the things that we're want to make sure is that it's a dialogue back 562 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:19,920 and forth with the commission. So, we hope that those of who are attending um 563 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:24,760 as appointees to the focus groups are bringing that back again to their 564 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,840 to their full commission and having discussions on that with their full 565 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:34,400 commissions because it's really important to do that. Um and um 566 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:39,600 we will be There's a couple of things that will be focusing on. The flood 567 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:44,640 erosion Thank you so much. 568 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:48,080 The flood erosion control board will be um 569 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:52,240 uh presenting at the zoning our next zoning commission meeting, which 570 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,200 it's the It's whatever the second Monday is. 571 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:59,000 » No, because um >> It's the third It's the 572 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,520 » Yeah, it's It's the 13th, I think. Yeah. Yeah. 573 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:07,160 » So, so they'll be pre- because they they had 574 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:11,600 some very very very specific uh information that came out. They you 575 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:16,800 know, they brought it to the workshop to both the public workshop as well. But, 576 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:20,640 we wanted to say like, "You have so much detailed information, we need to 577 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,080 we need to have you on our agenda. We've invited any commission who wants to have 578 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:29,440 a special meeting with the commission or, you know, work with us on that. 579 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:32,600 That's the way we are we're working. Um 580 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:36,920 and so I think that I've been actually thrilled with the process. Francesco's 581 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:40,400 been very, very thoughtful. So, 582 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:45,040 once we start we're right now in the gathering phase. So, there's been no 583 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:49,240 discus- decisions or really no discussions by the commission except for 584 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,320 what we've had back and forth with with folks. 585 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:56,840 » Good. >> So, it's at this point, um what we're 586 00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:01,080 looking at is um 587 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:05,920 Francesco, after this workshop on the 15th and the follow-up within in 588 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,640 he's going to now start, you know, over the 589 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:14,280 next couple of months bringing us, like, okay, we heard this. 590 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:19,040 What do you think about putting this in? There's couple things we know. We did 591 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:24,120 have to change things quickly on the commercial zone because we had to we had 592 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,160 a dead- deadline of July 1st because so we've explained to people we're on 593 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:31,240 parallel tracks and we really need to make sure your commissions understand 594 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:36,600 this. We're on parallel tracks with what's happening, um 595 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:40,880 because of, you know, the public we're dealing with as well as 596 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:45,840 our zoning. Um I'm thinking once we get through the 597 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:49,880 commercial, they'll be we'll like, are there things we need to tweak in that? 598 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:54,760 Um and then maybe that's something we need 599 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:59,000 to tweak right away, but it may be that, you know what? It's it's okay, you know, 600 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,400 and I don't know. I'm just saying it could be the other option could be it's 601 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:06,040 okay right now and we're going to wait for the housing growth plan to be, you 602 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:09,560 know, finished before we do anything more with this. But if 603 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:14,880 there's something inherently wrong with it, um we've heard from the commercial 604 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:18,080 folks, for example, that some folks have said 605 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:21,880 making it so that the commercial has to be on the bottom and the housing on top 606 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,520 or that it has to be in the same building. 607 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:29,360 We could make it so it's on the same lot or something. So, is there something we 608 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:33,280 need to tweak language in that to allow for that? There's some kind of 609 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:37,120 complaints about that or or suggestions and it's like, okay, how real is this? 610 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,240 Is this something we really need to make it be in the back 611 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:43,280 » back of the building instead of on top. >> And and it's like and is it already 612 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,440 allowed for that? Or was it just just the interpretation? Do we need clarity? 613 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:51,680 So, those are some of the things we'll be looking at. Um, 614 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:56,320 that's probably the I I I think that we'll hear right away from. There's some 615 00:42:53,880 --> 00:43:00,640 other stuff that we will be looking at. I think the accessory dwelling units 616 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:05,680 will be something we're really going to, you know, we'll probably get some good 617 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:09,680 feedback on on how to tackle that. Um, 618 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:13,760 the one thing I really want to look at is the affordable housing plan, as I 619 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,080 said, because um, 620 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,960 there was a really good assessment about what lots could 621 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:26,480 be used differently. Um, you know, uh, with more either 622 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:30,920 accessory units or, you know, 623 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:37,680 townhouses or some other kind of what they consider middle housing. 624 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:41,120 Um, and but can they handle um, 625 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:47,080 the onsite septic and water. And those are our challenges. 626 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:51,640 Um, so as well as as well as, you know, we we are you know, this 627 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:55,560 the big the big cha- and then the big changes and what we do with that is what 628 00:43:53,640 --> 00:44:02,520 the flood flood motion control board is is proposing cuz they've got big changes 629 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:08,280 um, there. And they're looking, you know, it's like, do we 630 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:12,240 how do we make sure that we've got that we're 631 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,640 protecting people who are in the flood zone, not allowing inappropriate 632 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,720 development in the flood zone, people already in the flood zone, what does 633 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:22,080 that mean? And I'll just give you an example and 634 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:26,520 this actually happened in uh post Superstorm Sandy in Connecticut 635 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:32,160 where um folks who lived on the shore 636 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:36,320 um the houses were severely damaged which meant they met the 50% rule um in 637 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,280 terms of um you know, if the they put in they put 638 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,400 Yeah, they >> into it. 639 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,920 » If they're putting money into it, so they couldn't just 640 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,720 fix. >> Fix. They had to 641 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,760 » They had to raise Once you had Once you fix over 50% then you have to elevate. 642 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,520 » Yeah. >> So 643 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:54,680 » to meet FEMA requirements, whatever that is. 644 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:58,040 » Yes. And so um 645 00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:02,040 what that led to post Superstorm Sandy 646 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:06,640 was a real gentrification of neighborhoods. And by that I mean people 647 00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:10,880 who lived there, who may have inherited houses from family whatever, we would 648 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:15,520 see this you know, in the in our shoreline area with people who had 649 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:19,560 little summer cottages, now their homes, full-time homes. 650 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:23,920 If they can't afford to elevate then they have to sell. 651 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:30,320 Do we allow someone who, you know, um 652 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:34,560 can uh afford to elevate and and maybe put in a big monster home. So basically 653 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:39,280 it's gentrification of neighborhoods overnight. 654 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:44,360 Um and there are ways around that. So Westbrook took advantage of a federal 655 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:49,640 program that's under USDA. And USDA has a program that they will 656 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:53,760 buy your house at the value of your house pre-storm. 657 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:58,320 So pre-storm value buy your house and restore it to natural 658 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:03,840 flood plain. >> We had um that situation here when I was 659 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:10,200 in office. There was a home that they were working on and the um 660 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:14,200 the owner was going to go that route and at last minute decided not to. 661 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,600 » Yeah, they decide and and Westbrook they didn't at first there was like no no no 662 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:21,920 they didn't and all of a sudden they realized you know what? 663 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:26,360 And uh about so that the people >> It's about restoring the shoreline. 664 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:31,240 » It's about restoring the shoreline. >> minimizing the impact of the flooding. 665 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,080 » And and >> in the future you 666 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:38,480 » And and not letting not letting gentrification happen because the only 667 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:42,520 people who can afford to live really in those areas 668 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:47,120 of high velocity and whatever are people who can self-insure. And so that really 669 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:51,200 gentrifies your shoreline. I mean we are you already have that anyway cuz 670 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:55,120 shoreline is expensive but you really people who have inherited houses or 671 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,200 generational >> They can't afford the flood insurance. 672 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,960 They can't afford the home insurance. >> And it's just 673 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:03,800 This is This is a So so we don't know where we're where we're going with that. 674 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,360 » Okay. >> We're going to have this discussion with 675 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:12,160 Fluppa. That's going to be a huge discussion and it and so I'm not sure 676 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,840 Francisco where where he what he's going to do but I think we're going to see 677 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:19,360 commercial zone the the housing commercial zone thing that we've heard 678 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:22,600 about. I think you're going to see ADUs and I think the floods are Those are 679 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,960 going to be the three that I 680 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,840 I hear at this point. We haven't had the commercial thing anymore but that's I 681 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:32,480 think those are the three where we're going to hear the most changes to start 682 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,640 with and then the other stuff will be little tweaks. 683 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:39,760 » Okay, I'd like to move on and and let's Bonnie you have anything else add to 684 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:43,680 what Okay, I just I was I'm sorry I might have 685 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,840 missed this. What You talked about the survey. Is there is 686 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,920 no cutoff date yet? >> At this point we didn't have a cutoff. 687 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:54,400 » Okay, so then you'll cut it off and that will get summarized. 688 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:57,080 » Yeah, it will will at the at the next zoning meeting we'll know. 689 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,200 » And I understand why you wouldn't want to cut it off. You want to get as many 690 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,240 people Okay. >> I think at each each workshop, too, when 691 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:07,920 we talked about the survey, a few more people go on and so we get a little push 692 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,000 right after some public >> Yeah. 693 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:15,760 » event. >> Okay. Um moving to new business, um 694 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:19,480 I just wanted to kind of get, you know, take people's temperature. You know, 695 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,280 we've uh gone through, 696 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:26,240 um you know, zoning processes in the works, there's 697 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:31,160 committees in the works. We have all these issues 698 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:34,920 kind of on the town's agenda. So, given that the makeup of this 699 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:39,560 committee represents these three commissions, I just wanted to 700 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:44,240 you know, not make any decisions or recommendations, but just get a sense of 701 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:48,240 where people's at this point, you know, 702 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,840 what are the issues with housing and commercial districts? Where do we stand? 703 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:55,840 What are we thinking? Just in a preliminary basis. Anyone 704 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,320 could jump in. Um 705 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:04,320 » Well, as I said, the house the housing and commercial districts, uh 706 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:07,320 obviously, we've got, you know, it's allowed right now. 707 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,480 So, by state statute. >> Right. 708 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,400 » So, there's not a question about that. It's about how to do it right. 709 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,440 » Right. >> Um in a town where we have limited 710 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:21,640 amount of commercial, how do we maintain that? So, 711 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,800 that was the what So, that that's the rationale that the commission made a 712 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,840 decision on was to 713 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:32,960 um make sure that if you were doing housing 714 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:37,880 um in a commercial area, that it you had to maintain some of the commercial. You 715 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:42,560 couldn't just do mixed use. It had to be um you know, multi-use. 716 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:46,880 And then, um the other piece of that was 717 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:51,720 um and that the zoning commission made the decision on was to require an 718 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:55,800 affordable housing piece to that, which is not required by statute, but we did 719 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:58,800 require that. So, that's the that's the zoning commission's stance at this 720 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:04,920 point. Um I think generally 721 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:07,280 in commercial districts, I think there's um 722 00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:12,960 you know, I think I think that generally the commission is looking at that it's 723 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:19,400 okay if we have multiple use or you know, but but we 724 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:23,080 need to have a very well-defined the one thing we want to maintain is the 725 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:25,720 integrity of the commercial piece. So, that's that's I think that's a strong 726 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,480 feeling. >> And like I say 727 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:34,360 I think EDC does have a a point and I know this 728 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:37,680 came up with RiverCOG, too, about you know, if you 729 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:42,720 put too much housing in your commercial area, we don't have a lot of commercial 730 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:49,240 area. So, you're competing, you know, and how do you balance that? That's 731 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:55,360 where I thought, you know, EDC's input is is very valuable. 732 00:50:52,280 --> 00:51:01,640 I know you you said you know, you and I perfectly understand RiverCOG 733 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:06,200 recommended that you quickly change your zoning to allow for the new law, 734 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:11,440 but when you are there outstanding issues that you 735 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:14,160 think have to go back and now look at? Or what would they 736 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:18,480 » got a little like I brought up that the idea of the, you know, like should we 737 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,760 require that >> Yeah, okay. 738 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:25,400 » have to do it. You know, should we clar- should we clarify that it doesn't have 739 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:30,840 to be bottom commercial up up top 740 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:34,960 residential. Do we need to clarify that you could do it different ways or 741 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:40,240 whatever? So, we we need to look at it. I mean, we did what we needed to do to 742 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:43,040 make sure we main- maintain control of the zones. Um 743 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:48,600 » As of July >> As of July 1st, but um you we certainly 744 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,720 and we haven't really discussed it beyond that except for what we're 745 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,960 hearing from everybody and we know we want to look at it more. 746 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:58,200 » Yeah, it seemed to me you know, you could have sit back for a minute and 747 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:02,360 say, okay, we have a why why did the state do this? 748 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:06,360 And uh you know, I'm assuming what's happened 749 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:11,400 is that you know, they recognized that lots of 750 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:16,080 planners are indicating that if you want to keep your and especially the small 751 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:20,040 municipalities your commercial commercial district 752 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:25,000 viable that given the decline in retail 753 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:31,600 uh that you need you know housing 754 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:34,800 and that if you put it in you know, your area where the center of town 755 00:52:33,861 --> 00:52:38,560 [clears throat] that's going to be an impetus to 756 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:42,440 you know, have a viable future with your 757 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:46,040 commercial district. >> I wouldn't say it was just about small 758 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:49,920 towns. I think we have large-scale office buildings 759 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:55,080 everywhere that are vacant. So, I think across the state they're looking at what 760 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:58,440 to do with you know, with vacancies. >> seems to me that you know, um Martha 761 00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:02,480 didn't want to talk about it was going to do a plan, but 762 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:06,200 which is you know, obviously an 763 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:09,240 issue going forward, but you know, when you think about it, I 764 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:13,120 mean it's pretty obvious that there are three or four ways to increase 765 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:16,000 affordable generally affordable housing. 766 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,760 » Old Lyme. >> Right. One is 767 00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:23,400 ADUs and I understand why the town wanted to 768 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,480 opt out cuz people at the beach saw that as a threat. 769 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:32,280 But the fact of the matter is that's the single best way to increase housing 770 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:36,000 in areas where for people for whom it will be supported and economically and 771 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:41,440 socially beneficial, right? So, Mike Bocchino did 772 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:45,840 a whole system and let's take this and apply it to Old Lyme for the people who 773 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,800 want it and can use it and not for the people to whom it's a threat. That's all 774 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:52,800 been done. That could be adopted tomorrow. That's 775 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:57,640 number one. That's a zoning issue. Two is that the state 776 00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:01,960 law doesn't really give you much in the way of 777 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:06,360 potentially doesn't give you much about commercial areas because it isn't 778 00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:09,840 economic for many people to take a commercial area and build nine units, 779 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:13,800 right? Or eight units. So, the real question for zoning is 780 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:18,040 going to be how you know, do you want to open up commercial 781 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:22,480 zones in some systematic way to encourage housing and control housing 782 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:25,400 and what kind of housing goes in there, whether it's for Cherrystone's people 783 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:31,640 want to do 60 or 30 or 80 houses or for Hall's Road 784 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:36,520 somebody wants to come and do you know, 15 or 20 houses going to 30 houses. So, 785 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:42,400 you know, it's targeting commercial zones for the right 786 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:46,960 amount of housing so it's not so dense that people go crazy about it. That's 787 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:50,880 number two. That's a huge ability to increase 788 00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:54,680 the middle housing and a little bit of affordable housing. 789 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:58,840 The third is um Beach and elsewhere 790 00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:03,960 lots of buildings that you know, are not or traditionally not um 791 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:08,120 uh year-round houses. Now, that's not entirely a zoning issue. It may be 792 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:11,920 partly a zoning issue because but it's partly a way that is the town or the 793 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:16,000 state or the federal government have money to help people do that. You say, 794 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:20,240 you know, if you fix up your house, renovate your house 795 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:25,200 to a year-round house and rent it out or sell it or you sell 796 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:29,760 it to somebody do that, what makes that economic 797 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:34,120 to create a year-round more affordable unit of housing? 798 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:39,000 And that's something that the town needs to look at in in of what's available 799 00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:43,760 from other sources, but also other towns do incentives for that. I mean, you can 800 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:47,480 say we'll give you a 30% off your the increase in your taxes for 5 years or 801 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,800 something like that. So, there are all kinds of economic 802 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:55,800 incentives that the town could consider. Might be rejected. 803 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:58,760 But, those are the three ways, it seems to me, 804 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:02,880 that you really have an impact on the housing stock of this community. 805 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:05,280 » And And two of the three Two of the three are zoning. 806 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,840 » Yeah. So, one of the And that's And that's why 807 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:12,240 um you know, one of the things we really need to do is look at the affordable 808 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,720 housing report. It's an excellent report. 809 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:18,160 » Yeah. >> And really say like, "Okay, what are the 810 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,080 The work that has been done. >> Right. 811 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:25,480 » How do we use that when we're working with the plan at RiverCOG, as well as 812 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:29,400 you know, changes in zoning. So, we are looking at all of that. And it's really 813 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:35,080 important that we continue to >> Isn't it correct, I mean, 814 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:36,880 the that re- report and work done by affordable housing 815 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,960 » Yeah. >> It's a good report. It's a very 816 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:45,200 » approved by the Board of Selectmen. >> So, isn't that really 817 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:48,400 what what our policy is? I don't know >> That's why 818 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:51,120 » what the implementation has been, but >> Well, that's the the thing, you know, 819 00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,080 and that's why >> done basically. 820 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:57,000 » Right. The work is done. >> Yeah, but that That was completed what, 821 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,800 2 years ago, I think? >> Yeah. 822 00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:03,040 » 3 years ago. I mean, so it's new. And we knew we were going to be doing the We 823 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,120 were doing the update of the zoning. >> Yeah. 824 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,960 » So, we're like, we're going to take that and update it. We you know, cuz if we 825 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,640 just said, "Okay, here's the report." And 826 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,720 said, "Well, you know, okay, now we'll do this guy." 827 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:19,720 » Okay. >> doing it as part of the update. 828 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:23,560 » All right, let's move on. Uh again, just kind of just people's uh taking 829 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:29,800 temperature and ideas about ADUs. It's It's As we talked 830 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:34,560 about, it's probably one of the main tools that's potential to expand, 831 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:38,760 You know, I know the state has been toying with legislation 832 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,520 to uh 833 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:44,760 you know, make it 834 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:51,120 uh easier to uh have ADUs in communities and trying 835 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:56,640 to eliminate some of the municipal rules that are preventing it 836 00:57:53,600 --> 00:58:01,520 or not preventing it, but containing it somewhat. So, 837 00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:05,520 just you know, what what's taking people's temperature, where do we see 838 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:09,640 that fitting in this whole thing cuz I think it's going to be an important 839 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:13,360 tool. Anyone? >> All right. 840 00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:17,720 For my short time being focused on this, which is a little over a month, 841 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:24,200 it seems to me that that seems to be the most popular option that people 842 00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:30,920 I wouldn't necessarily say popular. I would say they're open to it. And if 843 00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:36,560 there's a change that they would easily digest, it would be that. 844 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:42,720 Um that primarily. That's just my take from what I've seen in reactions and 845 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:46,120 comments and stuff, but it's a very very short time that I've focused on. 846 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:53,680 » Okay. >> You know, planning just has you know, 847 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:59,120 very broad statements allowing ADUs and that's all, but they have not planning 848 00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:03,640 has not gone further in detailing and saying, "Hey, it's it 849 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:07,560 work it should fit here, should fit here." Should that 850 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:10,360 something planning should do? What do you think? 851 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,560 » Um >> Or leave it to zoning? 852 00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:17,480 » Do you Well, I mean, are you looking like 853 00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:21,640 I mean, zoning is who zones. So, if you're talking about location of zones, 854 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:25,520 I think the planning is you know, I mean, if there is some area 855 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:29,560 that or something that would be neat unique from a more planning perspective 856 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:33,080 than a zoning perspective. But otherwise, I think it's being 857 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,000 handled by zoning, but >> Okay. 858 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:40,280 » I mean, it's very broad. >> ADUs have always been allowed, but are 859 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,640 very restrictive. >> Right. 860 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:48,200 » And the so ADUs that where you have a separate unit 861 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:55,120 on the same lot has not been allowed, but but within a structure, but very 862 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:57,720 restrictive and jumping through a lot of hoops. That's the impression that I get 863 00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:01,560 from people. >> It's only allowed like in our 80 and 40, 864 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:05,200 right? >> of your space and 865 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,720 um you know, it it's I think it's a special 866 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:13,000 permit. >> Well, the state yeah, special permit. 867 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:18,880 The state basically has a rule that would 868 01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:23,240 allow ADUs is is a pretty good rule for allowing it for 869 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:26,760 fast-tracking ADUs. Um 870 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:30,280 at least half the towns in Connecticut opted out. 871 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:33,760 And we opted out. So, the question is >> Well, that was grandma. Wasn't that 872 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,840 grandma um what they call granny pods? 873 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:43,360 » Yeah. >> Where you could put a structure on your 874 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:48,240 property to house a family member for a short time. It would be something 875 01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,440 that you would remove. This was 876 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,840 10 years ago? >> No. 877 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:57,680 4 years ago the >> 4 years ago the state passed 878 01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:03,440 a law that says that towns shall adopt 879 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:08,000 a process of allowing ADUs of a certain size and a certain whether attached or 880 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:13,200 unattached in your property. Uh with without a basically 881 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:17,920 is required without a hearing to have a permit to grant a permit. 882 01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:21,520 But it only passed the state legislature because in the end there's so many towns 883 01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:26,480 complained that it was the it was an opt-out. So, 884 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:30,040 most many towns opted out. We opted out without any discussion at all. It's all 885 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:35,320 I think we should opt out. This is the state, okay. 886 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:39,760 Mike is did a zoning ordinance which says, well, here are the places in town 887 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:43,720 this would really benefit people. And and the and those happen to be areas 888 01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:47,800 where people should it's it's in their family interest and their economic 889 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:52,880 interest to support it. So, it should be a no-brainer. That was 2 and 1/2 or 3 890 01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:56,640 years ago. And it's sitting there. It could be adopted tomorrow. The analysis 891 01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:01,600 was was incredibly good. I mean, it's 45 892 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:05,560 minutes of explaining why certain zoning current locations should 893 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:09,560 get this and not based on the understanding the 894 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,560 politics of people wouldn't like it for their property or people would like it 895 01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,200 for their >> Is zoning considering 896 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,760 that >> Well, we don't have you know, unless 897 01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:22,480 it's if it's in the affordable housing report, we have it. Yeah, Mike when he 898 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:25,320 was on the zoning commission never brought this to us. 899 01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,840 So, I don't know if he was going to bring it up or if he thought it needed 900 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:31,960 to be tweaked. I don't know. But, if it's in the affordable housing report, 901 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:35,040 then we have it. >> I sat through an hour presentation 902 01:02:33,848 --> 01:02:40,000 [clears throat] here by him. >> But, did but what I'm saying is is that 903 01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,760 in the report is it in the report? >> I don't know. Hold on. 904 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:47,760 » I'll check. >> So, it would seem to me 905 01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:50,440 » I mean, if it if if not, then she you know, affordable housing should bring 906 01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,440 that >> I'll update update it since it was done 907 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,400 2 years ago and bring it to zoning, right? 908 01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:00,400 » So, I mean, it should be you you can you can pass that along and share it as part 909 01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:02,600 of >> That's what we're looking for for the 910 01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:06,320 input. >> Like, if you have if you have a model 911 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,960 ordinance you want us to consider, >> Well, send it both to the planning and 912 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,440 zoning. >> Send it to planning and well, you really 913 01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:16,280 need to send it to Eric >> Right. 914 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:18,880 » so that it's in our record and well, not Eric's too. 915 01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,040 » Right. >> Well, we need to get a hold of Mike. 916 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,920 I really don't know. >> I I'll do it Jason. 917 01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:33,080 » Would you ask him if >> Yeah, I can I can I can email Mike. 918 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:37,240 » Is it another country or across the river over the seas? 919 01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:46,000 Well, I'm glad what you said that you're the what you hear is that 920 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:50,880 ADUs because they're obviously was some opposition to There was no discussion 921 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:54,520 about whether this was good for Lyme. >> I think that 922 01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:56,880 » of Selectmen meeting and then or some meeting and they said, "Oh, well, we 923 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,720 were going to get rid of this. We don't want this." 924 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:04,640 » I think a lot of times what happens and this happened with the granny pods is 925 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:11,080 that similar to what you had to deal with by July 1st 926 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:15,880 the the boards want to really analyze and know what they're doing. So, before 927 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:21,400 approving something on very short notice, they're going to say, "Let's not 928 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:24,440 do it. Protect ourselves." >> I think that's right. It was a three six 929 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,360 three months to >> It's 930 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,880 » You had to opt out in three months or else 931 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:33,120 you're stuck with it. >> And that's just not enough time for a 932 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:39,720 zoning commission to approve rules to something that's being shoved on them. 933 01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:45,280 So, um you know, a lot of people will judge that, but it's probably the best 934 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:49,640 the safest option for a commission until they do just what we're doing now and 935 01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:54,480 that's really looking at the whole thing and how some parts affect others and you 936 01:04:52,880 --> 01:05:00,680 know, that takes a lot of work. >> Yep. The other thing which uh you know, 937 01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:05,520 Halls Road reminds you is Is there any reason at all why Old Lyme 938 01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:08,760 shouldn't have a design review requirements? 939 01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:12,120 » Well, that's well, that's part That's the discussion. Those are all the 940 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:15,240 Those are all the things I'm bringing held up. So, you know, so one of the 941 01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:18,880 things is I have all of comments and will bring them back, but I really think 942 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:22,880 if you have these we don't have written comments from your commissions. 943 01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,680 » Right? >> Yeah, either of your commissions. 944 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:29,640 » Yeah. >> So, if we I mean, other commissions 945 01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:32,600 Conservation Commission has submitted us written comments. 946 01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:36,720 Um, the quality of the Open Space Commission has 947 01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,840 submitted written comments. Wetlands Protection Board has submitted written 948 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:45,440 comments. We really could use written comments from your commissions. And try 949 01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:50,000 » Yeah, well, what planning decided um I would do thrills with but anyway was 950 01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:54,320 it we brought up I brought up the issue 951 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:57,920 should we you know, the plan of conservation 952 01:05:55,960 --> 01:06:03,800 development uh legally has to be updated every 10 953 01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:07,080 years, but the law says you can update it anytime. You don't have to wait the 954 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:12,120 10 year. So, I said is this a good time to do it? 955 01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:14,560 It seems given >> But you don't need to do that to provide 956 01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:23,720 us comments. >> I know, but so we didn't do that and the 957 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:29,720 decision was to look at each issue as it comes up and then 958 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:32,840 then the planning would would um 959 01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:37,360 weigh it. >> But I think but I think the issues that 960 01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:42,040 are being brought up you better have all the meetings. So, housing commercial 961 01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:45,480 districts that's has happened already because it's by the law. You guys should 962 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:48,360 be talking about that and provide what are your comments about it? 963 01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,840 » Same thing with ADUs. >> Same thing. 964 01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:52,880 » Yeah, I agree. >> If you get back from that that you know, 965 01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:56,600 that would be really good for you to bring up at your because we don't have 966 01:06:54,720 --> 01:07:01,960 those comments from planning. And I think it would be good for you to 967 01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:05,000 you know, so that and if there's any you know 968 01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:08,800 any part of our staff you know, understand we're regulatory. So, we have 969 01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:13,520 regulations for any part of our regulation that should change. Can we 970 01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:17,680 just say generally allow ADUs while okay. 971 01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:22,040 We know, you know, we we we kind of heard that that people are open to this. 972 01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:26,680 But then how do you do it? So if you have any thoughts from that more 973 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:30,320 regulatory perspective. And when I'm saying you don't have to give us zoning, 974 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:34,840 but it could say, you know what? We think that, you know, on larger lots 975 01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:37,960 this should happen on smaller lots this should happen. In the beach community 976 01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:41,640 this should happen. If you have thoughts that are very general without saying, 977 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:45,400 you know, that would be fine, too. 978 01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:48,440 » Okay. All right. I will if if it first 979 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:53,200 » And I think the same thing, you know, what I said well with with affordable 980 01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:57,200 housing if there's very specific things on that. Um 981 01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:01,680 I think I think that, you know, those are important. And then, you know, and 982 01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:05,400 we want to look at those in relationship to then what we're doing at at River 983 01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:09,800 Clock. How is this going to help us with our housing? Does this make sense with 984 01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:13,920 our housing growth plan and I think George is like kind of articulating 985 01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:17,799 like, oh, these are those concepts we need to go forward with the housing 986 01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:21,080 growth plan. There may be some things that 987 01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,480 we wait. We've heard from people and we know that 988 01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:29,480 we want to tweak something, but we may wait for the housing growth plan to be 989 01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:32,359 completed before we make some rush. We're expecting some zoning changes to 990 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:36,720 happen by the close of this process, but we 991 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:40,720 also think that there'll be some things that we're just going to say, yeah. You 992 01:08:38,480 --> 01:08:44,040 know what? What's this housing cuz we don't want to have to change something 993 01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:48,680 after that housing growth plan is done. Just change right away. So 994 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:52,520 it's kind of a >> But how does the timing of the two work? 995 01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:57,000 How does the timing of the complete zoning rewrite 996 01:08:54,359 --> 01:09:01,200 and the housing plan fit together? >> They don't. So if they So they should 997 01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:04,799 fit they got to fit together. They don't because the legis the housing growth 998 01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:06,799 plan was legislation that came up after we hired our contractor. 999 01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:11,799 » Right. >> So, we have a the We had a 1000 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:19,359 We had a We hired a contractor who's with us through March 2027. The housing 1001 01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:22,359 growth plans aren't due until 2028. That's because the legislation wasn't 1002 01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:26,359 passed. >> Well, we couldn't extend the zoning 1003 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:29,480 rewrite, so it Well, it implements that zoning 1004 01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:34,799 » that there's a cost to extending that consultant, and that's got to be in the 1005 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:38,000 budget. And that takes Yeah. while. 1006 01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:42,040 » But but but let's just back off on that. We are doing that to a point. What we 1007 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:46,319 will do is change stuff that's obvious, 1008 01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:49,720 you know? But if there's things that need to wait, we will wait. And then if 1009 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:55,320 we need to either hire a consultant or work with River Cog on 1010 01:09:52,080 --> 01:10:00,840 the the What we want is the regulations to be in really good spot that then we 1011 01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:04,040 just need to tweak tweak them to fit the housing growth plan. But we want it But 1012 01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:07,640 we You know, so there may be certain things we just don't do 1013 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:12,200 um in terms of really, you know, tightening up something. But I'm 1014 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:15,080 expecting, as I had said, that we will be talking about commercial districts, 1015 01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:22,040 ADUs, and um What was the other one? 1016 01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:26,440 Oh, the flood the flood the flood stuff. That's what I'm expecting we will be 1017 01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:30,920 have a lot of a lot of focus on because we're already in, you know, 1018 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:34,280 That That's kind of what we we've been hearing from the most, 1019 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:40,240 and what's going to make the most sense for us in terms of what we need to do. 1020 01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:43,400 » Okay. So, uh before we adjourn, I just want to mention, 1021 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:49,440 you know, if you have any ideas for agenda items going forward, let me know. 1022 01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:56,200 Really, the only one that we've agreed on to consistently have is reports from 1023 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:59,120 River Cog and um um, on housing and planning. it. So, 1024 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:04,320 you know, your input is welcome on what our agenda 1025 01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:08,920 item should be. So, let me >> talk about getting the people who 1026 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:12,840 uh claim they have 1027 01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:15,680 uh an option to develop the Cherrystone. >> That would be good. 1028 01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:17,720 » They had us They came before the zoning committee to do a 1029 01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,800 But, they >> It's Cherrystone. People who are 1030 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:26,320 interested in in Cherrystone. >> The developers. 1031 01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:30,880 » Yeah, I mean, I don't know. >> I mean, it would be interesting because 1032 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:37,360 I I'm trying to get a hold of the plan. They laid out a whole, you know, 150 1033 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:39,960 units or something. Um plans for developing Cherrystone. 1034 01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:44,840 » You know >> think they ever actually 1035 01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:47,720 submitted it to zoning. >> Right. No, no, they did they just This 1036 01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:50,560 was a I mean, it's >> It was a discussion. 1037 01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:51,480 » It's a non-existent possibility right now. 1038 01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:55,600 » And >> It just came before zoning to 1039 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:59,160 » I I thought they have a Can I could 1040 01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:05,120 possi- I'm I don't know for sure, but I thought they they have a contract that 1041 01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:08,600 says they would purchase the property if the zoning is changed. Is 1042 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,840 Is that what some of you've heard or not? 1043 01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,360 » I >> Yeah, they a lot of times they have that 1044 01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,720 final >> I don't know. 1045 01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,560 » But, they haven't come to us with anything formal. They came 1046 01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,640 » No, no, they just did >> No, no, no, they they had a you know, 1047 01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:23,680 discussion. Um and there was, you know, I think 1048 01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:27,440 there was interesting discussion in terms of you know, 1049 01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:32,440 where they need to go. I mean, one of the things we're really be looking at is 1050 01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:37,680 you know, talk to us about the key issues that we 1051 01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,840 have when we're looking from a zoning perspective. 1052 01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:44,680 » Yeah. >> And that is on-site septic, 1053 01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:49,400 um storm water management, on-site uh uh well, you know, water water supply, um 1054 01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:56,160 and then, you know, just the overall protection of of, you know, the natural 1055 01:12:51,920 --> 01:13:00,840 resources that needs to happen. So, um because, you know, we want to make 1056 01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:05,040 sure we have an integrity. So, I mean, but I don't think I think having 1057 01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:07,600 something like that come on our agenda is like I guess we shouldn't really be 1058 01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:10,240 talking too much about it since it's not on this agenda. 1059 01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:13,080 But, but we couldn't 1060 01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:18,320 What do you think about it? >> you know, I think we I'd love to maybe 1061 01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:22,160 find out. I don't want to bring anything here that if they're going to submit to 1062 01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,440 zoning authority. >> I understand. That would not be That 1063 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:28,360 would not be right. >> Well, that's right. I hadn't thought 1064 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:33,160 about that. It's Yeah. We could also potentially invite 1065 01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:38,720 the new owners of uh properties on Halls Road 1066 01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:42,080 and just see what their feeling is. So, I just 1067 01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,640 I just threw that out. >> Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that's 1068 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:50,200 getting into the weeds that we're not sure I think that's part of our charge. 1069 01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:53,760 I I appreciate that everybody is That's the charge of the individual 1070 01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:57,080 commissions. I think if planning wanted to invite them and say what's your plan 1071 01:13:55,560 --> 01:14:00,800 for the then it's a whole different thing. I think you can I think we need 1072 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:04,480 to be very careful um because of what our respective roles 1073 01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:10,160 are and when they might be coming between our before our commissions. 1074 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:13,560 » For zoning changes, that's It's a challenge for us to have that as 1075 01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:17,440 a challenge. >> I mean, I think I think, you know, 1076 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:20,760 I I I think that would be more appropriate for planning to have that a 1077 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:24,680 bigger discussion with folks if you wanted to have that. Usually, I will say 1078 01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:28,880 in most municipalities I've worked for, it's staff that holds those 1079 01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:30,640 conversations. >> Okay, should we 1080 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,720 » I think that's a good idea. >> Motion to adjourn, anyone? 1081 01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:37,440 » I'll move to to adjourn. Do we adjourn? 1082 01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,200 » Second. >> Second. 1083 01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,040 » Okay. All those in favor? 1084 01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:44,520 » I. >> Okay. 1085 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,960 Good. Thank you. >> Thank you.