[0:03] Call this meeting to order. We begin
[0:04] with the pledge.
[0:09] allegiance to the flag of the
[0:11] United States of America and to the
[0:14] republic for which it stands. One nation
[0:17] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[0:20] justice for all.
[0:27] Welcome to the Anacma Township U
[0:30] Planning Commission. U regular meeting.
[0:34] Um
[0:38] we'll introduce ourselves first so you
[0:43] know who you're listening to. You ready?
[0:47] Ted Evans,
[0:49] David Gleason, Chris Ford, and Dave
[0:52] Wallace. Chair
[0:54] >> Cindy Juan Beckler, Township Trustee,
[0:57] appointee to planning commission.
[0:59] >> Thank you. Um
[1:02] uh
[1:04] are there any additions or corrections
[1:06] to the minutes?
[1:10] Otherwise, I would entertain a motion to
[1:12] approve those I mean the the agenda.
[1:15] Excuse me.
[1:16] Getting ahead of myself. make a motion
[1:20] >> to to approve to approve.
[1:23] >> All in favor say I. I.
[1:25] >> What was the second?
[1:27] >> Sorry. There you are.
[1:29] >> Now we're now we're down to the minutes
[1:32] uh of the June meeting.
[1:35] Um
[1:36] >> did you get those via email?
[1:38] >> Yes.
[1:39] >> Um so you do you see the minutes?
[1:42] >> Yes.
[1:42] >> Okay. Um are there any additions or
[1:45] corrections to those minutes? Otherwise,
[1:47] I would entertain a motion to approve
[1:48] those. Motion
[1:50] >> support.
[1:52] >> Moved by Gleon, second by fourth. All in
[1:56] favor say I. I.
[1:59] >> Minutes are approved.
[2:07] Okay.
[2:08] Was over there. Um this time we have any
[2:13] public comment?
[2:19] Seeing none, we'll move ahead.
[2:22] Uh first item of business is the um
[2:26] Little Eden special use permit amendment
[2:29] approval. Uh
[2:32] and uh Little Eden came to the planning
[2:36] commission
[2:38] and
[2:40] gases glasses. Here they here we are.
[2:44] um in 2017 uh to get a special use
[2:49] permit to do some uh demolition and
[2:52] reconstruction.
[2:54] And in that process uh they ran into
[2:58] some
[2:59] um like code requirements, I guess,
[3:03] might be the best way to describe it
[3:05] that uh required some some adjustment to
[3:08] locations and and footprint sizes of
[3:12] buildings. Um and uh this is a um in
[3:19] planning commission speak it it is a a
[3:21] minor amendment uh which means it does
[3:24] not need to go through uh public hearing
[3:28] process and which is long and drawn out.
[3:32] uh this is something that we can say um
[3:35] this is these are nonsubstantive changes
[3:38] um don't change the overall scope of the
[3:41] project and u we should be able to um
[3:48] move on on that that request
[3:51] Wayne Favor is here from the leaden uh
[3:54] do you have anything you'd like to
[3:56] >> I can just explain what yeah what the
[3:58] differences are from what was approved
[4:00] to what we're asking for if you want me
[4:02] to do that.
[4:03] >> Well, you know them better than better
[4:04] than I do.
[4:05] >> So, there's uh there's two buildings
[4:08] we're looking to do. The one square
[4:10] footage wise meets the same square
[4:12] footage that was previously approved in
[4:14] our bus use permits. Uh the larger of
[4:17] the two buildings, which is two cabins
[4:20] um
[4:21] was approved at 1620 square feet. We've
[4:25] had to eliminate a loft that was in that
[4:28] cabin um because of state requirements
[4:30] and also um commercial code has changed
[4:34] since the original approval. Um so we've
[4:36] had to put fire suppression in it which
[4:38] is adding 187 and a half square feet for
[4:43] fire suppression. Um, so the the cabin
[4:46] is going to be we'd like to do a cabin
[4:50] that's 428 square ft larger than what
[4:52] was proposed and approved back in 2017.
[4:58] So
[4:59] question is
[5:02] >> and some slight changes in orientation.
[5:04] It's going to be Yeah, because of the addition that we have to put on the
[5:08] larger building, the smaller building is
[5:10] going to um be tweaked off to the side
[5:14] like 20 ft. Um and the front building
[5:18] that was approved on the site plan.
[5:20] We're going to center it between the
[5:22] stream a little bit better than it shows
[5:23] on the plan. So, our our plan is to put
[5:27] it right between the two
[5:30] as one stream, but it circles around the
[5:32] cabin. So, we're going to center it. So
[5:34] it's, you know, equally spaced early.
[5:42] » Questions from commissioners?
[5:46] » Well, you
[5:52] anything?
[5:55] >> Then I would entertain a motion to
[5:58] approve this amendment.
[6:01] I'll make a motion. Second.
[6:05] Move by Aaron, second by Gleon to
[6:09] approve the
[6:10] um STP
[6:13] clinic amendment.
[6:15] Um
[6:17] and
[6:20] we'll do a roll call vote just for fun.
[6:23] Arens
[6:27] » I
[6:29] >> yes
[6:31] >> Wallace yes
[6:34] Thank you.
[6:37] >> Put out fires.
[6:40] » Hopefully your old.
[6:42] >> Yeah.
[6:43] >> Thank you.
[6:43] Wayne.
[6:46] Um,
[6:48] next item on the agenda is a brief
[6:52] update on Portage Point in. Um
[6:57] I
[6:59] was very pleased to learn uh the other
[7:01] day that uh the Portage Point in is uh
[7:06] making application
[7:08] to Eagle for installation of a private
[7:12] sewer um
[7:16] which would utilize the existing tanks.
[7:19] I I believe we'll utilize the existing
[7:21] tanks uh by the end and then um do an
[7:27] underground pipe to the ball field where
[7:31] the
[7:34] um rain field would be. Um this is not
[7:37] something that comes under the uh
[7:40] authority of district 10 [clears throat]
[7:42] because it's a private sewer and uh so
[7:46] Eagle takes over and uh I don't know
[7:50] that it's a a quick process but uh
[7:55] what what is with them um and so uh but
[8:00] this would be a a major step forward um
[8:04] and would open the door to the rest of
[8:09] many of the things that uh Bob Gazine
[8:12] would like to do. Um we can also report
[8:15] that um the gas dock is is now off the
[8:18] table. The um
[8:23] boat ramp is off the table and the boat
[8:27] barn which was going to be on the ball
[8:29] field. Uh there will still be a they'd
[8:32] still like to do a a maintenance shed
[8:35] there, but it would be um more of a an
[8:40] office for Duncan and a storage building
[8:44] for
[8:46] um
[8:47] portage point in
[8:50] equipment, tractors, um lawnmowers
[8:55] and the like. um but is not being looked
[8:58] at as for boat storage.
[9:01] So that's what we know and uh we will
[9:05] hope that uh
[9:08] this uh plan will work.
[9:12] Mr.
[9:13] already had uh uh Nordland Associates
[9:18] um to do the design work for that system
[9:23] and uh they have another company that
[9:26] they're working with who
[9:30] knows about how this type of a sewer
[9:32] system can function well. So,
[9:37] >> has there been any more dialogue about
[9:41] the lot and getting things removed from
[9:44] the lot? And now I understand there is
[9:48] concern about bladed property at the
[9:51] inning
[9:53] [clears throat] at the
[9:55] board meeting last night.
[10:00] » Um,
[10:00] >> yes.
[10:02] Well, the the biggest the biggest
[10:04] problem at the ball field is the sheet
[10:07] steel. Um and
[10:10] um I think Mr. Gazan still intends to
[10:16] replace the existing seaw wall because
[10:20] it's only 8ft pilings and I've heard
[10:22] rumors that it's perhaps washing out. Um
[10:27] and
[10:31] I haven't heard anything about um
[10:35] anything on the let's say the in
[10:37] property properly. I I do know that I'd
[10:40] like to encourage uh them to look
[10:44] towards um a PUB
[10:47] which
[10:49] um in the original DVU permit a long
[10:54] time ago
[10:56] um the planning commission said
[11:00] u oh you want to be a waterfront resort
[11:03] fine you're a waterfront resort oh you
[11:05] want a PUB oh fine you're a PUD and and
[11:08] That's not the way the PUB process
[11:10] works. There's paperwork involved. Um
[11:13] and [clears throat] most of that
[11:14] paperwork um Gazan already has
[11:19] um with um the biggest thing he would
[11:23] need to do is a site drawing with
[11:24] dimensions on it. But uh I've spoken
[11:29] with county planners and uh we think it
[11:31] would be a good avenue for him to pro um
[11:35] proceed with to give him the
[11:38] um flexibility to
[11:42] um work with the um the old casino
[11:47] location
[11:49] uh without difficulties.
[11:53] So that's what I know. Any
[11:58] questions out there from anyone?
[12:01] >> Yeah, if you're inviting them,
[12:02] >> I'll invite a question because
[12:04] >> Well, we can wait till the public
[12:06] comment or
[12:07] >> Well, it's on your it's on your
[12:09] >> Well, I'm just You said flexibility to
[12:12] work with the casino. What?
[12:15] >> Well, to do what? um a um
[12:21] without a PUB
[12:24] um any kind of
[12:27] new construction has to meet zoning
[12:30] codes.
[12:32] Um he's an RR3
[12:35] and um now most of his property is
[12:38] grandfathered
[12:40] there forever. But if but new
[12:43] construction would have to meet road
[12:46] setbacks and all kinds of things. A PUD
[12:49] offers some flexibility because you
[12:52] you're doing some open space and some
[12:57] uh and he's got plenty of he's got
[12:59] enough acreage that he can meet those
[13:02] requirements. We I believe.
[13:05] >> So at what point will he need a major
[13:08] amendment to the SU? I mean, these are
[13:11] positive changes, but I mean, they're
[13:13] major changes.
[13:14] >> The the the SUP will have to be looked
[13:18] at to remove some of those things, which
[13:21] he's no longer planning on doing. I
[13:24] mean, it's got a it's got it's got a a
[13:26] gas in the SU. If he's [clears throat]
[13:30] not going to do that anymore, we need to
[13:32] get that out of the SU. Mhm.
[13:35] >> Well, another consideration too is, you
[13:38] know, the big issue back, what was it,
[13:40] 2017 when this was approved was parking.
[13:44] And so part of the parking, there were
[13:46] like a hundred spots
[13:49] in the boat barn. So, I mean, that's
[13:51] always going to be an issue over there
[13:53] depending on how much more he plans to
[13:55] do. Wow.
[13:56] >> So, I'm concerned is the is the drain
[13:58] field or whatever he's doing how many
[14:01] square feet is that kind of
[14:02] >> he's got he's got plenty of room I've
[14:05] seen preliminary sites and he's got
[14:09] plenty of room for a drain field. It's
[14:11] not um it's not like a water treatment
[14:15] plant that takes
[14:18] acres and acres. Do you know when he I
[14:20] noticed over there that the utilities
[14:23] have all been at least the gas lines all
[14:25] been flagged. Spicer was over there
[14:28] surveying the rightway. I
[14:29] >> I have no idea what that's about.
[14:32] >> I assume has something to do with
[14:34] >> could [laughter]
[14:37] >> it goes all the way it goes all the way
[14:38] from to the ball field and stuff.
[14:41] >> He wouldn't he wouldn't be doing that
[14:44] work this soon. I don't think
[14:47] not without a a more positive sign from
[14:50] eagle.
[14:53] >> He's got to have his
[14:57] » um
[14:58] >> Yeah.
[14:58] >> I have a question that if if he were to
[15:03] be able to put in his drain or into the septic system, would this uh allow
[15:10] him to put in a culinary school like he
[15:12] talked about?
[15:13] >> No, the culinary school is history.
[15:15] Okay.
[15:15] >> He'd like he'd still like to he has the drawings for the hotel
[15:21] um renovation and of course it that
[15:25] renovation hinged on a septic system.
[15:29] Um, and he'd like to put in a restaurant
[15:34] for and a and a kitchen for that
[15:37] restaurant and not the 4500 square foot
[15:42] kitchen he was going to put in for the
[15:44] culinary institute.
[15:46] >> This would be able to this would allow
[15:47] him to have a restaurant.
[15:49] >> Oh, and still he'd still have the
[15:51] restaurant, but
[15:51] >> regular restaurant.
[15:55] >> Okay. No. Did he say is this like a
[15:58] regular like gravity sewer or a step
[16:01] system? Don't know.
[16:03] >> I don't care.
[16:06] >> Stay tuned.
[16:07] >> Did he say what he's Is he has he got
[16:09] permission from the road commission or
[16:11] what's the status of
[16:13] >> I don't know.
[16:13] >> Stay tuned.
[16:14] >> Okay.
[16:16] >> I'll go over and ask them.
[16:18] >> Be my guest.
[16:21] >> Okay. Moving right along. Um
[16:27] we were approached by uh Networks
[16:31] Northwest who was uh working uh up in
[16:35] this area as many of you may have read
[16:37] in the newspapers that uh um Manasty
[16:40] County is kind of a uh a daycare desert
[16:45] and they were looking at ways that they
[16:48] could make um communities more
[16:52] accessible for uh daycare opportunities.
[16:56] Um Networks Northwest has uh drafted
[17:00] language for a um an amendment to our
[17:07] zoning ordinance. Um and there is grant
[17:12] funding from the community foundation
[17:16] um which will pay for um the the
[17:20] publication of the of the public hearing
[17:23] notice. It'll pay for the drafting of
[17:26] all the language. Um it uh and so
[17:32] the
[17:34] only cost we would probably incur would
[17:36] be um a review by our attorney u just to
[17:41] look at this and say you know yeah I've
[17:44] seen I've seen about 10 of these come to
[17:46] be by my desk for all the other
[17:48] townships that are doing it and I think
[17:50] uh um the village is you
[17:54] >> yeah we're we're done with our draft and
[17:56] the public hearing is scheduled next
[17:58] month.
[17:59] >> See? Well, so we have um
[18:04] this uh definition and and uh and then
[18:09] uh amendments to all the different
[18:12] zoning classifications.
[18:15] And uh
[18:17] I'd like to see this uh move forward. We
[18:20] would have a public hearing on it and uh
[18:24] and then uh recommend
[18:28] action by the township board to add it
[18:32] to our existing zoning ordinance.
[18:39] Any
[18:41] reactions?
[18:43] Jimmy, I see you.
[18:45] I don't know if Metrics Northwest struck
[18:47] out the location
[18:50] requirements
[18:52] and nothing was added back into that
[18:55] separation
[18:57] between the group daycare homes which
[18:59] can be up to 14 kids
[19:02] as you hear Florida. I know in the
[19:04] village we we left it did modify it a
[19:08] little bit. Um the village also had the
[19:12] village didn't have anything when it came to this other than allowing
[19:15] them but we put in there um that
[19:21] um one licensed group daycare phone had
[19:24] to be at least 1,000 ft [clears throat]
[19:26] travel distance from another or 300
[19:30] supplies
[19:33] um
[19:35] and
[19:37] from from
[19:39] my experience. You get two group daycare
[19:42] homes
[19:43] next to one another or even one 14 kids
[19:47] out in the backyard screaming during the
[19:49] summer months. Uh kind of disrupts, you
[19:52] know, the neighbors and especially if in
[19:56] this area there's a lot of retirees and
[19:58] older people than they, you know, you
[20:01] might perhaps
[20:02] >> you might want to you know, separate
[20:04] them a little bit. I don't know if
[20:06] you'll get a group daycare home in this
[20:08] area. It's possible. I know I know
[20:10] there's uh from what I understand
[20:13] there's a waiting list to get into the
[20:14] daycare facility of the schools.
[20:17] >> Uh so we know that so we know there's a
[20:19] need in the area. Uh but that that
[20:22] really is what he's smiling about. You
[20:24] know, if you'd like to share with the
[20:27] other members the villages like draft
[20:29] language, I'd be glad to send that out
[20:31] when you email. Well, and we could check
[20:33] with Mike Sakola as to what his
[20:35] reasoning was for the leading in the
[20:39] township.
[20:42] Um,
[20:43] >> and I know it's to it's to encourage
[20:45] these types of uses and and they are
[20:48] very valuable use. Uh, but I think it's
[20:52] important for for the communities to be,
[20:54] you know, sensitive the neighbors and
[20:56] where these where these locate.
[20:58] >> I'd like to see the reason. And then we
[21:01] also put in language that if if a
[21:06] proposed daycare facility didn't meet
[21:08] the spacing requirements that the
[21:10] planning commission could approve it
[21:11] anyway subject to a to a public hearing
[21:14] and getting input, you know, from the
[21:16] neighbors. So, if it wasn't it wasn't a
[21:19] slam the door on if you don't meet those black and white numbers,
[21:26] but I'll send it out.
[21:28] >> All right. [clears throat]
[21:33] So,
[21:35] >> has has Jody been involved in any of
[21:37] these so far?
[21:38] >> I am. I am very involved with the child
[21:41] care and um but I don't know why it was
[21:44] excluded. I think it's a good point, but
[21:47] I also think the ability to wave, you
[21:49] know, if if it's not included is a good
[21:52] one. I'm going to ask Mexico
[21:55] myself too or at least let them know
[21:57] that you'll be reaching out,
[22:00] but we'll see. Um, but you know, being a
[22:04] parent in the area, it was very
[22:05] difficult to find it was very difficult
[22:08] to find there.
[22:09] >> Just because we lift the regulations or
[22:11] make them easier to get through doesn't
[22:12] mean that we're going to magically have
[22:14] more daycarees in the area. It just
[22:16] makes it a little bit easier for anybody
[22:18] who would like to. That's my view. Oh,
[22:20] the other thing that the village did was
[22:23] substantially reduce the fee or at least
[22:25] recommending it right now uh at $150
[22:29] because in speaking with Mike, he said
[22:31] our notification requirements for
[22:33] something like this through the the
[22:35] local newspaper is about $90.
[22:38] Uh uh and then so then we just set up a
[22:40] little 7150
[22:42] uh but you're going to have mailings uh
[22:45] and then you know a little bit for staff
[22:48] time
[22:50] but I think I think the township is 750
[22:53] for an SU.
[22:55] >> Yes, that's
[22:56] >> that's pretty steep to ask uh you know a
[23:00] homeowner or a mother who might be
[23:02] staying home with their two kids you
[23:05] know to spend you know $750. I think
[23:08] that I think that's pretty hot.
[23:10] >> Work for free for the first month.
[23:12] [laughter]
[23:14] Watch these kids for free. I think we
[23:16] should get a cut. [laughter]
[23:18] >> Yeah,
[23:20] >> I will. I do wonder um if since I've
[23:23] been invited to to speak, I do wonder if
[23:26] there are suggested distances between
[23:31] different daycarees so that we could
[23:33] find if we do decide that we want
[23:35] something if there's a standard set that
[23:39] so it's not just an arbitrary distance.
[23:41] >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's tough. I mean
[23:44] when you look at model ordinances you're
[23:46] going to see a lot of 1500 and
[23:48] recognizing the need for it in the
[23:51] community and you know even 1500,000
[23:54] feet that thousand feet is still quite a
[23:57] bit spacing and and as a crow flies
[23:58] you'll see a lot of 500. We decided,
[24:01] well, let's let's let's lower it down to 300 because a travel distance, you
[24:06] could just go right around the block and
[24:08] you could have the two rear yards above
[24:09] one another if you if you don't have in
[24:12] there something about property line to
[24:14] property line.
[24:20] » So, would you like to
[24:24] wait for some some clarification on some
[24:27] of these items before [clears throat] we
[24:30] push it forward or would you like to get
[24:34] it in the hopper and
[24:38] assume we're going to get some answers
[24:40] and we would still be able to modify it
[24:42] at the public hearing. How much lead
[24:45] time do you need between now and our
[24:46] next meeting before we have a notice of
[24:49] today?
[24:50] >> 15 days. 15 days for public. So, we have
[24:52] two weeks after this meeting to get
[24:54] everything
[24:56] >> put together before we notice it. And
[24:59] that's coming in at the last minute.
[25:03] » I'd say go ahead with it because you can
[25:05] always modify it,
[25:07] you know, or if you have a public
[25:09] hearing, you don't have to make a motion
[25:11] to either approve or or I guess deny.
[25:14] You could always just table it for, you
[25:16] know, to another meeting as well.
[25:20] >> But if we were wanting to incorporate
[25:22] some of the village language in it,
[25:25] wouldn't we have to have a new public
[25:26] hearing?
[25:30] No,
[25:31] >> one one required public hearing at that
[25:34] public hearing discuss what the changes
[25:36] may be. [clears throat]
[25:45] » I'm listening.
[25:46] >> Yeah, I'm fine with moving it forward as
[25:50] long as we would have the ability to
[25:52] possibly incorporate similar language
[25:55] that the village is using. And I think
[25:58] my thought process with that is if in
[26:00] fact it was acceptable. I just feel
[26:03] anytime
[26:04] the village and the township can mirror
[26:07] each other on a lot of different issues,
[26:11] especially something like this, it makes
[26:12] sense to me rather than having the
[26:14] village have one standard and the
[26:17] township have another. Yeah. So,
[26:22] » okay.
[26:23] >> One thing that um with this ordinance
[26:25] amendment, Mike tried to do is unify it
[26:28] across the county because they looked at
[26:30] it as a county project which is why
[26:33] we're involved, right?
[26:34] >> And they looked at everybody to try to
[26:36] bring it all to the state regulations
[26:37] that are out.
[26:38] >> So, it is very
[26:40] >> close. Right. Other than the comment
[26:42] that made
[26:44] >> because Yeah. Because everybody had
[26:45] their own take on that. Yes.
[26:54] » So,
[26:57] >> do we need a motion on this, do we?
[27:00] Well, actually, you can do public
[27:02] hearing
[27:03] >> to set up the public hearing.
[27:06] >> Okay. Well, I'll offer a motion that the
[27:09] planning commission accept for public
[27:11] hearing uh an ordinance with regards to
[27:15] uh uh consideration of zoning code
[27:18] amendments involving child daycare.
[27:22] >> Second.
[27:26] » Okay.
[27:28] Do we need to specify a
[27:30] >> what's the date?
[27:31] >> A date.
[27:33] >> Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
[27:37] So it would be the September 17 meeting.
[27:45] Okay.
[27:49] Any other discussion?
[27:52] All in favor say I. I.
[27:55] >> Okay. So, we need you to do a little
[27:58] homework and as we get answers, we'll
[28:01] keep you all informed
[28:04] and
[28:06] um
[28:12] so we could still make
[28:16] minor adjustments up to the publication
[28:19] date or or
[28:22] >> hearing you can make adjustments.
[28:23] >> I know. But if but when we publish if we
[28:27] could publish with some of the answers
[28:29] to some of these questions it would be
[28:31] nice.
[28:32] >> Yeah.
[28:35] >> All right. Thank you.
[28:40] Um
[28:41] the next thing on our on our agenda is
[28:44] um article 1012
[28:47] which is a section of the ordinance um
[28:50] dealing with um roads
[28:54] um public roads, local roads, minor
[28:57] roads.
[28:58] Um
[29:00] and uh
[29:02] this was on our agenda
[29:05] um largely for
[29:08] um a u
[29:12] a residence a local resident issue with
[29:15] access to his property which we've since
[29:19] found another avenue to address.
[29:22] But Jody, you still have concerns about
[29:28] >> 1012.
[29:29] >> I do. It's um it's a every summer
[29:33] activity that I have to um try to apply
[29:36] 1012 and it's really difficult for
[29:39] property owners to get through. First,
[29:42] we're using we use private roads and
[29:45] undeveloped platted roads in the same
[29:48] context, but they're different. Buted
[29:51] roads are owned by the township and
[29:53] private roads are owned obviously by
[29:57] the, you know, site condos or what or
[30:00] the deed holders or whoever owns that
[30:02] private road. And so applying standards
[30:06] for both of them is very difficult. And a lot of times
[30:12] like this would work really well if it
[30:14] was a brand new road. If we were
[30:15] creating a brand new neighborhood with a
[30:17] brand new private road that ran through
[30:18] it, this would make sense. But we don't
[30:21] have a lot of that development
[30:22] happening, especially in the resort
[30:24] residential. We have plotted roads that
[30:27] people have twotracked and built um
[30:30] beautiful homes on along the lake shore.
[30:32] And then we have the last person who
[30:34] wants to develop the last parcel on the
[30:36] road. And um they're caught holding the
[30:40] bag per this ordinance to develop the
[30:43] road and establish a maintenance
[30:45] agreement with all their neighbors that
[30:47] have already been using the road and you
[30:50] know maybe don't want to enter that
[30:52] maintenance agreement. [laughter] hand
[30:54] or like you know they see that if they
[30:57] enter this maintenance agreement their
[30:58] neighbor gets to develop it. It it gives
[31:00] a lot of control where um and a lot of
[31:04] difficulty for that last person wanting
[31:06] to develop. But there's been numerous
[31:10] um examples. Ivan Hoe is one. If you
[31:13] guys have ever driven on Ivanho the
[31:15] going towards the water it's very I ran
[31:18] into the UPS truck out there. I couldn't
[31:20] even believe the UPS truck could get out
[31:21] there. Um, but there's a new house out
[31:24] there. And then we see it on High
[31:27] Street, which is up in Pierport, which
[31:29] is a plattered road.
[31:31] Um, and so there's a lot of difficulties
[31:35] getting through this. So, I think if we
[31:36] read it as a whole and thought about
[31:39] separating private from unflatted roads
[31:41] and what we really want people
[31:43] responsible for and what um, maybe
[31:46] private road owners should just be
[31:48] responsible for or new roads. And then
[31:51] also the township attorney wants us to
[31:54] look at this um because there's platted
[31:58] roadways on the beaches. And then
[32:01] there's the new repairarian rights
[32:04] um new it's you know 20ish years old now
[32:08] that the
[32:10] private property owners have repairarian
[32:12] rights out to the water whether there's
[32:14] an undeveloped road there or not. And
[32:16] so, especially on the Lake Michigan
[32:19] side, they want to put out their Lake
[32:20] Michigan um boardwalks to get down to
[32:23] their beaches and things, but it has to
[32:25] go over this public
[32:28] platted roadway. And so the township
[32:30] attorney has a some opinions on how we
[32:33] can make it possible for the repairarian
[32:35] rights to be um
[32:39] acknowledged and then also remain in
[32:41] compliance with the zoning ordinance
[32:43] because right now it's not as clean as
[32:45] we'd like to see it.
[32:48] I have some suggestions. I have a marked
[32:50] up copy. You guys don't have a copy of
[32:52] that. But if we're doing text
[32:54] amendments, you know, or if we're
[32:56] thinking about it, I know we're going to
[32:57] be starting in October. So, I'll be
[33:00] pushing my wish list of amendments that
[33:03] have been an issue as probably next year
[33:06] as we move through it. But um if you
[33:10] this is the one that continually comes
[33:12] up and we kind of we want to administer
[33:16] exactly as it's written but
[33:20] it's it's just very difficult to find a
[33:22] way through. Everybody gets caught in
[33:24] the net and then we just don't see
[33:26] development. They just fall off. They
[33:28] just stop communicating with me because
[33:30] at the at some point there's no reason
[33:32] there's no way to get through it.
[33:35] So, what are like the top one or two
[33:37] issues that that these potential
[33:39] homeowners would have with it that that
[33:41] makes them walk away from it?
[33:42] >> The private road maintenance agreement
[33:45] is [clears throat] one and then the
[33:47] difference between
[33:50] unplatted roads and private roads. If
[33:53] it's um an unplatted road,
[33:57] um I I'm not sure. This is where we
[34:00] would want to talk to our township
[34:02] attorney. But can a
[34:05] citizen
[34:07] develop
[34:08] do we want a citizen developing
[34:11] platted roads that are the township
[34:13] property,
[34:14] you know, or or does the township want
[34:16] to be involved in that? Do we not care?
[34:19] Do we is it okay? Do we want to see two
[34:21] tracks back to mansions because that is
[34:23] the the way that the resort residential
[34:26] works around here. It's um
[34:29] >> well, from a first responder
[34:32] >> perspective, I certainly wouldn't want,
[34:35] you know, a two track going back to a to
[34:37] a large home, you know, five, six, 700
[34:39] feet off off a main road.
[34:41] >> Yes. Yeah. And some are um treacherous.
[34:46] I've been stuck in the Ford Escape in
[34:49] the winter at the bottom of a hill.
[34:51] Luckily, the property owner there has a
[34:53] shovel for me, but I've been stuck out
[34:55] there in the winter trying to get out.
[34:58] And so, I don't know how we want to look
[35:00] at it. I we need to look at it and
[35:03] figure it out. Um, but I don't know what
[35:04] the right answer is. And I don't expect
[35:06] you guys to know either, but reading it
[35:08] and trying to apply it and see all the
[35:11] different scenarios. I'm available for
[35:13] those types of discussions if you guys
[35:15] want to get into it deep.
[35:18] >> Do you want to send us your markdown?
[35:20] Yeah, that'd be helpful.
[35:22] >> Yeah. I I'd like to see if you ruled the
[35:26] world, how would you write it?
[35:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.
[35:32] >> If I could speak on that, she I've
[35:34] talked to her. I'm one of those property
[35:37] owners that has five acres that's off of
[35:40] Clark Road. Um and there's a paper road
[35:44] that the township owns there. And I've
[35:46] been for one year trying to talk with
[35:49] the township and try to access this to
[35:53] get that that's the only way to access
[35:55] this property line is to access it
[35:58] through a paper road that the township
[36:00] has. And moving forward, you know,
[36:03] according to the regulations, you
[36:05] basically want to put a road in that is
[36:09] like better than the county road that
[36:11] actually goes into this paper road that
[36:13] the township has. according to the the
[36:17] regulations that were written in this,
[36:19] you know, these ordinance. So for an
[36:21] amendment like she was talking about to
[36:25] make it where it's it's accessible for
[36:28] you EMS or whatever is obviously very
[36:31] reasonable but at the same time to have
[36:34] a 20 foot wide
[36:36] um road with a foot of um
[36:41] gravel and I'm the only one that's going
[36:43] to utilize it because all the other
[36:45] property owners that would actually even
[36:48] touch it have deeded easements from
[36:50] roads somewhere other than that paper
[36:52] road. It really doesn't make a lot of
[36:54] sense. Like she said, why somebody's
[36:56] going to develop it according to an
[36:58] ordinance that you have driveways all
[37:00] over the township that are two tracks
[37:04] that that are basically the same thing
[37:06] that I I need to do is access my
[37:08] property through that township paper
[37:11] road. So, I mean, like I said, I've been
[37:15] dealing with the township and with
[37:16] talking with David and everyone about
[37:18] this so we can try to, you know, come to
[37:22] some kind of, you know,
[37:25] >> I I remember hearing the discussion
[37:26] about your property at the township
[37:28] board meetings and and I think probably
[37:30] your property would be one that would be
[37:35] part of the discussion of of how we can
[37:40] modify 1012
[37:42] to
[37:44] uh
[37:45] try to try the best we can to address
[37:48] situations uh like this one. Uh
[37:54] um and but uh you know the uh the
[37:59] difficulty in making adjustments to the
[38:02] ordinance is it affects [clears throat]
[38:06] everyone.
[38:08] So, right. Just because we fix it for
[38:11] >> we fix this problem doesn't mean we're
[38:13] not creating 15 other problems
[38:16] >> somewhere else.
[38:18] >> Can I did you are you going to talk
[38:20] about the you were there? So, go I
[38:22] didn't see that.
[38:22] >> I was going to bring it up. Yeah, we
[38:24] received um an opinion from an attorney
[38:29] and unfortunately we got it very late at
[38:33] our meeting and there is another issue
[38:36] that rose up with that because the
[38:40] belief is that that is not a paper road
[38:45] that it is privately owned.
[38:53] Well, like I said, you know,
[38:56] >> well, I I mean, your question is still
[38:58] well taken. Well, my my point is is when
[39:02] you have
[39:03] >> when you have these I mean when you talk
[39:05] to the township supervisor and you talk
[39:07] to the county road commission manager
[39:09] and you know you're kind of in this gray
[39:12] area that you guys are talking about but
[39:14] you're being told that yes this is you
[39:17] know a township road and so you move
[39:20] forward on purchasing property based on
[39:23] what is being told to you by the people
[39:25] that are that should know this stuff And
[39:29] then all of a sudden, you know, you find
[39:30] out something totally different later.
[39:33] You know, there there's got to be kind
[39:35] of, you know, I mean, why does it show
[39:39] that it's there if it's not really
[39:41] there? You're Lenny, right?
[39:43] >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, you should
[39:45] get a copy of that. It's not wasn't
[39:47] attorney client privilege from the clerk
[39:49] on Monday or maybe you can send it to
[39:51] him because I think it basically says
[39:55] uh Richard Wilson wasn't able to figure
[39:57] out who actually owns it.
[40:00] >> Somebody from 187
[40:02] it's not it's not it's not on the I mean
[40:05] to a point the first part of it my
[40:07] opinion is it's part of the plat park
[40:09] edition but beyond that kind of where
[40:12] that first driveway peels off Yeah. Who
[40:15] owns it?
[40:16] >> Yeah.
[40:16] >> Well, you have to look at the dedication
[40:19] on the plat typically. Typically, it'll
[40:21] tell you that
[40:22] >> it's not in the rightways and so forth,
[40:25] walkways, whatever might be is dedicated
[40:28] to the public.
[40:29] >> Correct.
[40:29] >> And then in that case, then
[40:32] >> the private individual doesn't own it.
[40:35] >> That's a different discussion.
[40:36] >> But this this property is not within a
[40:38] plat.
[40:39] >> Oh, it's not within a plat. It's next to
[40:41] it's like dead unplanned space that does
[40:44] appear to look like a paper road
[40:47] >> and divisions have been based off from
[40:50] this dead space that which is what Lenny
[40:53] is referencing.
[40:54] >> But then when we do some really deep
[40:57] research, we have discovered that
[41:01] >> it's just dead space. Dead unplanned
[41:04] space.
[41:05] >> Quick.
[41:08] [laughter]
[41:09] Well, it's it's kind of like the old
[41:10] way. You just kind of I mean, honestly,
[41:12] a lot of people would just put a road in
[41:14] and never even tell nobody and then it
[41:16] just kind of like is a road that's there
[41:18] and you you utilize it and nobody says
[41:21] anything. But that's not,
[41:23] >> you know, that's not the correct way of
[41:25] doing things.
[41:25] >> Okay. Well,
[41:28] >> hence the need to look at 1012.
[41:30] >> Yeah.
[41:31] >> Okay. They're waiting for you.
[41:33] >> Thank you, Jody.
[41:34] >> You're welcome. Um,
[41:38] move on. Any public comment?
[41:40] >> I just had a question on the daycare
[41:42] ordinance because I don't know anything
[41:44] about it. Are these these are in homes?
[41:46] Is that what we're talking about?
[41:48] >> Mhm.
[41:49] >> The daycare s in people's homes. So, are
[41:53] those like licensed, regulated?
[41:55] Absolutely. Number of kids per square
[41:57] foot, all that stuff.
[41:59] You you want to see what these what
[42:00] these
[42:02] >> I'll I'll say moms that that want to run
[42:04] a daycare out of their home what they're
[42:05] up against when they start looking at
[42:06] the state regulations for these things.
[42:08] It was what like 37 pages.
[42:10] >> Huge.
[42:11] >> But yeah,
[42:12] >> it comes with it own handbook. And
[42:14] [laughter]
[42:15] >> basically these regulations just say we say what the state says. If the state
[42:21] says it's fine, researching
[42:24] those regulations and I didn't see
[42:26] anywhere that it that the state would
[42:28] require in writing that the the outside
[42:30] clearing has to be fenced.
[42:32] >> It suggested
[42:33] >> Yeah.
[42:33] >> I didn't see that it was an actual
[42:35] requirement, though.
[42:36] >> Well, my daycare doesn't have a fence
[42:38] in, but she's in the middle of the
[42:39] woods, so I think it could be like
[42:42] situational. If the kid runs away into
[42:44] the woods, then [laughter]
[42:46] >> you miss a kid, they'll show up with
[42:48] army.
[42:50] » [laughter]
[42:51] >> Okay.
[42:53] Um,
[42:55] public comment
[42:57] >> any
[42:58] >> that was it.
[43:03] » Then without objection, I'm going to
[43:05] adjourn this meeting. Thank you very
[43:07] much.
[43:07] >> Thank you.
[43:08] >> Yes.
[43:24] reimburse.
[43:42] » I'll be seeing I'll be seeing John
[43:43] later. I'll tell him back.
[43:46] He wants to make a change, right?
[43:48] >> Um,
[43:48] >> we're going to knock it down, you and I.
[43:50] >> Oh, yeah.
[43:50] >> Yeah.