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Good afternoon, Mr. President. And Vice Chair of the Armed Select Board. And today's date is September 23rd. We're having a meeting, starting at 5.30. And I hope you all joined me for the pledge of allegiance.

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As you heard me say before, the fire exits has been dated by Massachusetts.

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If you go out this door to my left, take a right, you can hit Prospect Street.

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If you go through this door to my right through the door, through the room upstairs, take

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left in your own prospect street and I would encourage you not to use the elevator in case

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of a fire.

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So today's meeting is a public hearing for conversation on 16 to 36 West Main Street.

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Well, I'm sorry, West River, West, West River Street.

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I knew that, Kara.

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Yeah, also known as the brick pile.

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Also known as the old serial factory.

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There you go.

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So it's very historical, so site site, which is now open.

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And orange is the owner.

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And we're looking at what we want to do

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And the town has town citizens and residents have some import.

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And that's why you're here to tell us what you think.

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So what I'd like to do is we have the engineering forum

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firm, plus no-neal, could give us a presentation

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as to where you are in this.

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And then we have at least a letter from the LLC that owns it

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where they are and then we'll open it up to citizen comments and we'll have a time limit

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and everybody who wants to talk and talk and we'll see what anybody has to say.

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So Chris, Tim, come on down.

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Sit here.

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Yes sir.

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Okay.

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Let's see.

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Let's see.

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Let's see.

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We're going to pull up the survey that we completed.

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So that folks can see that on the screen and then we have these pictures.

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Okay,

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so the board's just looking for kind of an overview of what we've done, kind of the sequence of events that have brought us here today is that.

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Yeah, so I believe I don't have a formal presentation.

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that that's what I believe back in the summer you or your group made a

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presentation pretty much saying we're done with what we contracted to do and we

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go back and come up with some ideas of what we might do with that lot.

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Well yeah so initially the plan was to do a design process for parking

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specifically, and so that's what we were initially contracted to do after that meeting in May.

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In addition to that, to kind of make some additional progress as it relates to the environmental work,

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which is sort of something that needs to be done anyway, but is also informed by the land use,

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you know, the ultimate plan for the site.

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So in other words, the environmental cleanup and the DEP process would vary depending on whether

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we use this as a parking lot or as a park, which is considered a higher risk land use

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from an environmental standpoint.

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So we've been working on the environmental reports.

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We've completed the survey with some contractor of ours prepared that survey and we also did a wetland delineation to inform, at the time, a notice of intent or wetland permitting steps, all with the goal of building a parking lot there.

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And then, you know, I heard from Matt that there was some rethinking of the ultimate use objectives for that property.

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And so we prepared kind of a scope reallocation, if you will, to move away from the parking concept to more of a public park, kind of municipal use concept.

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And so, you know, that's something we share with the town, and now I'm here today to kind

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of talk about, okay, is it parking lot or is it park or is it both, and so that's kind

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of where we're at?

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Yeah.

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It's okay.

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And we also, we also, I think, as a committee wanted to make sure that we had public input

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that at the time that we didn't have, there was ideas, there were more people,

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there were

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I'm the scene stuff that we didn't chat with that day.

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So we wanted to give time for it.

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So this meeting is just about this, which is nice.

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Understood.

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And so, you know, I invited me up to be here to help

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however I can and help kind of that dialogue and the public

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and the board sort of make a decision and we'll do the best

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we can to leave the town with a good work product to kind of build

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off of and and move forward.

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Did Pusson or Neil come up with any other alternative possibilities that we should be considering?

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Um, I guess the only one, I wouldn't say we came up with it, but one thing I had talked with Matt about was the possibility that the town, you know,

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if the town were to try and sell the property, you know, what would that look like, how would that fit into possibly?

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You know, the cleanup plan, you know, if the town wanted to sell the property on the market to a private developer, you know, how should we handle the environmental piece to best position the property for, you know, resale if that were the decision.

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Got it. Got it. Excellent. Okay. The other party that has been involved is the LLC that owns what I know is Carroll supermarket building.

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the one on the corner. And we have a letter in my binder. I think we do have a

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representative here, 50, 50, 50, a self-mainstream. Lisa Malo is here.

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Oh, excellent. Would you come up and grab a chair? You can, you can sit next to

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sure you can kick him out whichever you prefer.

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You can take one.

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You want them to be crisp, but his name is Tim.

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Oh, Tim, I'm sorry.

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Hi.

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I'm Lisa and I'll go with four columns.

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No.

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Sorry.

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I'm representing the sellers.

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Excuse me.

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The owners of 50, 50, eight.

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South Main Street.

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Is that?

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Yes, South Main Street.

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Is that both buildings against the river and the one on the corner?

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That is correct.

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Great.

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Yeah.

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We refer to them as 50, 50, 50, eight.

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So their intention with those buildings, they are in the process of pulling a permit to do the brick repair that was requested.

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The contractors in the process now, I don't know if Jason actually has a copy of the permit, but that is being done.

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The next step is they're going to be doing the roof.

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And then they are now in process working with an engineer for developing 40 to 45 units inside those buildings for residential living.

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So what they would like on this parking on the parking on your drawing that's right in front of David is a portion of the parking lot

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So they can develop that parking lot for dedicated parking for the residents that are going to be living inside those buildings.

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Okay, they would take on the responsibility of the paving anything that that is needed to go with those buildings.

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But they do need that in order for, in order for it to be completed.

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I know that it gets into sticky wicket when the town is selling to a one individual.

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But that doesn't happen when it's a rental or long-term lease.

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Would you be looking at something that we draw a line down the lot and you'd say, I can

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develop this under a long-term lease?

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We would be open to anything the town suggests, as long as we have parking, she would like to own it, obviously, but if she cannot, I would like to give you, you know, give me some options, so I can, I can go to her, or go to, you know, the LLC that owns this and presents it to him.

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You're looking at about 45.

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40 to 45 correct? 40 to 45 species. Yes. Okay.

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Yeah, we need TA on this.

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It's funny because I had this conversation with her today and I said,

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they're going to ask me that and you ask me that.

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I do not but I can go back at it. She's waiting for the engineer to develop.

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Obviously we all know that those buildings have some issues with structural issues

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and the whole plan was developed there in process they have it and their engineer has to make

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sure that the buildings are safe before they can develop them into units.

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So I don't know, but I can go back at her and ask her to estimate when they're going

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to be doing that.

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I think we would be interested in that also, Mr. Manager, any questions?

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Sir, questions, comments, and if you guys have any questions for me, let me know.

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A couple of points I'd bring up is that when we have not received building permanent application,

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from 50-58, and that of course isn't helpful because we are anticipating it,

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And it's being, it's part of the narrative, and yet we don't have that application.

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I did speak to her today, she said her contract, she's allegedly been working on it since Monday.

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So I can give her a call again either tonight or tomorrow.

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Find out the status on where that is.

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I think it would be helpful too for the town if we knew who they were.

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I Jason knows who they are because obviously he's involved. They are just not ready to come and speak because they don't want to be bombarded with

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Everybody's ideas. They have their own ideas for the buildings and they want to be able to bring that to fruition

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Additionally, the building department is requiring a large amount of engineering because of the building being in the shape that it is in now.

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We want to see it safe, made safe, and then we can continue to move forward.

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So my, I don't know why I say it right.

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My squeeze is public safety first with the building, so we've been back and forth.

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with that group to make it safe so they can commit to additional investment within that area.

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So some of them might be my fault because I want more and I want to see good engineering

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quality engineering again to keep that area in that well-traveled area safe for people around there.

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Right, that is the first thing people see when they come into orange.

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We want to make sure it's done properly.

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I have a letter from you when we're dying.

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I'm wondering if we should read that on the record so that's in there.

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And Julie, would you use the clerk?

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I'm Kelly, but.

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Or maybe I'm Tim, or Chris.

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Are you sure?

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I don't know.

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Which one are we?

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I'm going to read you one.

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You know, it must be in here.

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It's just, oh, got it.

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Oh, wait.

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It looks like this.

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Oh, okay, I'll just read that.

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All righty.

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So September 9, 2000,

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1226, town of Orange, Board of Selectman,

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regarding the proposed parking arrangement

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for the 50, 50, it's South Main Street,

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workforce housing redevelopment project.

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Dear members of the Board of Selectman, on behalf of the owners of 50 South Main Street,

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identified as parcels 228 and 58 South Main Street,

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identified as parcels 229.

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I respectfully submit this proposal concerning parking for the planning workforce housing redevelopment

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of these properties.

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The owner.

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Acquired both properties in July, 2025, with the intention of developing workforce housing in downtown Orange.

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During the acquisition process, the Board of Selectman provided the owners with a letter expressing the towns willingness to explore the feasibility of reserving up to 48 parking spaces for the exclusive use of residents of the proposed 50 to 58 South Main Street redevelopment project.

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The town's letter also confirmed that the town retains full discretion over the future use and development of the municipal property located at 16-36 West River Street identified as parcel to 27.

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The purpose of this letter is to present a possible method for creating the proposed residential parking spaces, while also preserving a substantial portion of parcel to 27 for public parking.

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According to the conceptual parking lot design, included in appendix e-parcel 227 could potentially accommodate approximately 156 parking spaces allocated as follows.

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Ro A, 44 spaces, ro B, 38 spaces, row C, 38 spaces, row D, 36 spaces.

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To implement the proposed residential parking arrangement, the owner respectfully request that the town consider the following.

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Number one, the town would divide parcel 227 into two parcels referred to in this proposal as partial 227-1 and parcel 227-2.

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The proposed division line would be located approximately 141 feet from the right side property line.

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subject to a final survey, engineering review, permitting, and all required governmental approvals.

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Number two, the town would convey deed, lease, and other assigned parcel to 27-2 to the owner,

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under terms mutually acceptable to both parties and subject to all applicable legal requirements and approvals.

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At the owner's sole expense, the owner would construct approximately 48 parking spaces in parcel

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227-2 for the exclusive use of residents of the 50-58 South Main Street redevelopment project.

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Number four, the preliminary design currently identifies 15 spaces in row A, 11 spaces in

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be 11 spaces in row C and 10 spaces in row D for a total of 47 spaces. The final design

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would be adjusted if feasible and approved to provide the requested total of 48 spaces.

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Number five, the town could develop the remaining portion of the property parcels

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227-1 with approximately a 108 parking public parking spaces at the town's expense in according

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to the town's preferred schedule, funding and development plan.

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If the town ultimately intends to develop parcel to 27, as a 156 space public parking facility,

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this arrangement could reduce the town's construction responsibility and related expensive.

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The owner would fund and construct the portion serving the workforce housing project, while

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the town would remain responsible for developing approximately a 108 public parking spaces.

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The owner respectfully request that the board review this proposal and authorize the appropriate

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town officials to begin discussions regarding the proposed division and disposition, or

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long-term lease of a portion of parcel to 27.

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Timely consideration of this matter is important so that the owner may determine whether

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the workforce housing development can move forward.

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This proposal is intended as a framework for discussion and does not create a binding obligation

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on either party.

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Any subdivision, conveyance, lease, parking allocation, construction obligation or other

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commitment would be subject to final plans, applicable, municipal and state requirements, necessary

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governmental approval, and the execution of mutual acceptable written agreements.

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Thank you for your consideration in this proposal and for the town's willingness to explore parking

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solutions that could support workforce housing and continue downtown development in orange.

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We welcome the opportunity to meet with a board and appropriate town officials to discuss

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the proposal and greater detail.

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Respectfully submitted, we submit.

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Representative.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Has everybody seen the drawings that are up on the table?

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I would thought you have.

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Can we make a move?

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Yeah.

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Mr. Chair.

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What's the title of that?

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The parking.

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I'll help you with that.

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The special parking trail.

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Splash.

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Practicing.

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And on the procurement side of things

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for the town, there are a few options.

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One of them would be to see if the town will vote

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file special legislation to exempt the town from procurement law, for the sale of the law,

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which we've done in the past when we wanted to sell a parcel of land to a particular party.

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The other idea you could do is a targeted RFP that was favorable for, say, workforce development

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parking. So, they'd be a strong proposer if we'd designed an RFP for that type of use.

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And I think what would be challenging is the fact that from the road to the end of the

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lot, it's a downward slope and it's about an eight to ten foot change. And so you have to

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really build up a larger taning wall toward the river and then bring in a substantial amount of fill

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to be able to bring this up to grade with the roadway and you would end up spending a lot of money

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and if you split the law and we can look at this conceptual artificial intelligence lay over on the

231
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survey map but if you see toward the right hand side of the image there's a dotted line that would

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a theoretical subdivision line. You'd end up still having to put in a retaining wall that

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would cross over the line so there would be some type of public private partnership that would

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have to occur to actually bring this thing up to great fully and that's going to be the majority

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of your cost would be bringing in the wall, building the wall to meet civil engineering standards

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and then bringing in the fill. So I know that right now with the amount of money that the town

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left in the earmark. It's only a couple hundred grand and it's really not anywhere near enough money that

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we would need to actually bring this thing up to grade with the road to be able to build a

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structural parking lot. That said, potential if the 5058 owner had funds to kick in,

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that could go a long way towards getting this project done. So what you have on the screen here,

241
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is a hybrid concept that

242
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That is a combination between a couple ideas. It provides some parking that could be dedicated for workforce housing at 558 South Main Street, the former Carol's Corner.

243
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It also provides municipal parking and riverfront area parking to give viewership to the riverfront, and it also incorporated a small splash park design,

244
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Which would be to attract young families to the town of Orange and offer a new amenity to the taxpayers and this was generated with co-pilot

245
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So I wouldn't stand behind it as far as

246
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Engineering and scalability in scale, but

247
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Certainly it gives us all something to look at that brings color to what is otherwise in our mind. So

248
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This is the hybrid approach that I think might check the boxes for all the concern parties that have interest in this one acre lot.

249
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So what we're looking to do tonight is to get input from the public on what your ideas are.

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bring story. And to that end and to move along that proposed, let's say a six minutes,

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anybody can get up, say their peace. And you get one chance and we're not going to

252
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get a converse with you, you're just going to tell us what you think and roll right

253
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it down and then we'll take it back and chew on it.

254
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Um, welcome back down the road. Okay. I will free the sea. Thank you. So is there anybody who

255
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wants to comment on your thoughts on the brick pile?

256
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Could be a quick meeting.

257
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I have

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a few zoom comments and then I have a few from the public feedback survey. I will start

259
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with the zoom comments. Um, first one and read. I favor allowing for the purchaser of

260
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property and or the town to develop the grounds for needed single-level parking.

261
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I do not believe that to instead reserve the land for public leisure space would provide

262
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worthwhile, sorry, would prove worthwhile by comparison.

263
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:03,700
Thank you, Anne Reed.

264
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:14,240
Yes, it's in these enders you are next, Denise Enders is requesting an explanation of all

265
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designs on the table, and I'm just going to add you Denise to as a speaking participant.

266
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Thank you.

267
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I could even thank you for the public hearing to get that you explained it.

268
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So I've been working on this since 2010, this is the fourth ownership group.

269
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A lot of people have come to the table saying what they're going to do.

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This current ownership group sounds like they're starting now a year in after several attempts

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by the town to get transparency in the partnership. So I'm happy about that. However, I don't

272
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literally trust the deal until there's real money on the table. So if we're interested in

273
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having a hybrid design, I think is very important to get money up front in a long-term lease agreement

274
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for 47 spaces, period, and that lets them know they can develop it, but they're going to put money on the table, partial pay on lease.

275
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So we're not sitting waiting for them to not develop it, okay, and this is a fourth ownership group.

276
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So we've got to learn from the past that we need to have real skin in the game, money, good partnership, transparency.

277
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Because we all would love to see market rate housing in those two historical buildings with spaces needed for them to do that.

278
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Having a beautiful green space next to it not only helps economic development for them, but for this town people see

279
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We care they see beautiful green space on the river and they want to come and build houses and grow their businesses

280
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So it is economic development, even though it's green space

281
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Originally we talked if we're gonna put spaces in to do a two story

282
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parking space

283
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Garage, okay

284
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And that can be done.

285
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I was told, even though we brought fill in, in that two story would be about it to West River,

286
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not about it to the river.

287
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,560
So you got to dig down, build two, get the spaces.

288
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I think it is totally not appropriate to put 100 in some spaces on prime riverfront property

289
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and have just a huge parking lot there.

290
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There's a way to make it work a hybrid, but not flat, one level parking of 104 spaces, no way.

291
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:38,260
Okay. One, get what we need for those two buildings to be developed, money on the table up front and

292
00:27:38,260 --> 00:27:41,400
at least agreement, and then spend the rest of the money.

293
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:47,160
The last time we talked about this, Sluck board meeting was 300 grand was in the bank, still.

294
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,820
We had to check economic development, yes, this, he checks that box, and we had to check

295
00:27:52,820 --> 00:27:56,560
environmental, and it was said, let's not spend any more money on Fuss and O'Neill.

296
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So, I'm not sure why the bank counts now down to 200.

297
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whatever it is, we need a good design and we need it. We need a button

298
00:28:04,980 --> 00:28:09,520
button that means we've got to spend some money or ask for an extension which

299
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may not be possible for the town to do its part and then ask those a core LLC

300
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enough of hiding behind who they are and we can't figure it out. That's not a

301
00:28:23,140 --> 00:28:28,180
way to build a relationship and we can get the spaces for them, preserve those

302
00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:33,120
buildings if we work in partnership, we all would love that. But we need real money on the table,

303
00:28:33,540 --> 00:28:39,320
fourth owner, 16 years, and they're falling down. And the owners didn't come to the table until

304
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:45,820
we put safety requirements on them. Through Jason, thank you, Jason, for doing what you're doing on

305
00:28:45,820 --> 00:28:50,260
safety and good engineering and requiring it to be done right. We haven't done that in the past,

306
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:57,140
so thank you, Jason. And we should not have had to go that way and initiate a bit of hardball

307
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to say you start fixing these buildings because stuff's flying off those roofs and out of the

308
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:13,100
windows. So hopefully we can take tonight, get to the table with the owners, co-create, green

309
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space, they're parking space needs, a splash park, keep it up as green space as much as we can

310
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close to the river. Not the other way around and not a whole lot of hundreds

311
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of some spaces. And I'm happy to help. I've been doing that and I'll continue to. Thank you.

312
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:35,190
Thank you. Thank you, Denise.

313
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Thank you.

314
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:44,500
Any other participants on Zoom or Zoom QA?

315
00:29:54,090 --> 00:29:55,630
All right. Nobody else?

316
00:29:55,630 --> 00:29:59,970
Um, but okay, okay, then I'll move.

317
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,260
Go on to the survey.

318
00:30:06,530 --> 00:30:18,430
Good evening, Paulie Bixby. When a two-hole she wrote, first of all, I'd like to thank Denise for her time spent putting some thought into this.

319
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And I agree with her that I'm not sure what we can do until we get a commitment from the people on the building.

320
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Because as she said, we have had promises on this kind of stuff for a long time.

321
00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:41,030
I remember talking to other owners, you know, in these past years with a promised everything and then never came through with it.

322
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:47,830
So what we do depends, it depends a lot upon what these owners do,

323
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whether they're going to actually follow through this project or not.

324
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In the meantime, my own thought is, and it's just my own thought,

325
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that we keep the grass area just as it is and whatever we spend if we have to spend

326
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:14,830
this $200,000 so that we don't lose it then what can we do so that that won't be interfered

327
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with when this housing project is built and we do the parking lot so maybe we don't do

328
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parking lot because I don't I can't I personally don't see a parking lot there if we don't

329
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have residents in that building we don't yet have residents in Butterfield the old Butterfield

330
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school and that's kind of like a far away for people who are living near to actually park.

331
00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:48,530
So what you would do with that 200,000 I'm not really sure but some thoughts could be

332
00:31:48,530 --> 00:31:55,610
that way you've got the green area and the splash pond I believe I believe it's still

333
00:31:55,610 --> 00:32:02,710
the it is a railroad part of a railroad track and it was a place you go under the track

334
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:10,190
I'm not sure what you call that under what underpass that's right underpass underneath

335
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:15,150
that railroad track and I know years ago in a plan it was a thought about making a trail going

336
00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:19,690
to knees there, because that's still, I believe, part of that property, so that could be

337
00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:27,990
cleaned up a bit, past go through there, and maybe even just somehow, so that it wouldn't

338
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:32,150
be interfered with, but somehow some green, real long, maybe a path along the river.

339
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:38,530
You see, I'm seeing a lot of several kids and some adults fishing off the bridge,

340
00:32:43,330 --> 00:32:43,510
the

341
00:32:43,510 --> 00:32:51,730
types of things until we can get our act together with that. The people are developing, so that's it.

342
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:56,490
Comments, sorry to drop that the audio on the mic is not good. Do we want to move this?

343
00:32:59,570 --> 00:33:00,050
Okay,

344
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,460
so those listening, I'm sorry if I broke the mic. I'm not sure. I'm just about

345
00:33:09,460 --> 00:33:14,320
through talking now anyway, but if anybody, I guess those are my only thoughts.

346
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:20,680
I know at one point there was supposed to be a whole green way going down through that

347
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:26,060
underpass I'm talking about and along the river all the way down along the river and

348
00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:31,340
there was a lot of work to try to get across the river and the railroad tracks to get

349
00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:39,360
into OIC however I think the stopper was pan-am so we couldn't go through with it so

350
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,140
You know, that's something that was been there in the past.

351
00:33:42,940 --> 00:33:44,360
I guess that's it.

352
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:45,400
Okay.

353
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,200
App for those who didn't hear it.

354
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:56,020
You're saying that put the money and to put the money that we have into the green trails.

355
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,460
I think, rather than just wasting it.

356
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,640
I don't think we need to don't study.

357
00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:00,720
Yeah, and don't do it.

358
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,240
And don't do the parking lot.

359
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:05,040
Until we have a commitment.

360
00:34:05,380 --> 00:34:06,940
But we could take care of the green part.

361
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,300
That's what that's going to mean.

362
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:11,440
I need to just leave the space kind of as is now there.

363
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,840
The town is the guys are mowing it, it's looking good right now.

364
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:27,500
Just leave it there until we get a commitment from the developer and then, you know, we move forward and hopefully we get some money from them also to help with the parking lot and I'm not sure where else you get it.

365
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:35,560
or whatever we get it. We could always go up a center of talent and juggle as something and get some money, but

366
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,580
anyway, yeah, that's my proposal.

367
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,040
Thank you.

368
00:34:42,420 --> 00:34:51,960
I would like to find out if this was cut down in size and so let's just say the

369
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,980
that A parking lots were not there, and that was going to be in space.

370
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:06,140
What impact would that have on the potential pollution of the site?

371
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,120
Tim, can you come up to that?

372
00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:14,540
In

373
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terms of the site cleanup, I think, regardless of whether it's a parking lot or a park, it

374
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will differ, but a big part of that is going to be the fact that it's raised up and so you're

375
00:35:39,980 --> 00:35:48,480
getting some separation between what the pollution is underneath the old building slab essentially.

376
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:56,080
You're talking about pollution that's 10-15 feet down from what would be the final grade.

377
00:35:57,060 --> 00:36:03,060
So we'd really want to leverage that fact that there is that separation and the likelihood of

378
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:09,240
people contacting that pollution is extremely small at that point, but that doesn't necessarily

379
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:14,780
mean that you could leave it all there under a parks scenario just because it's, you know,

380
00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:20,980
you're attracting children and that has a higher standard of clean up. So it's likely that,

381
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,510
you know, at the park portion of the site, wherever that falls and whatever the extent of it is,

382
00:36:26,510 --> 00:36:35,270
There would probably be some targeted cleanup that would be needed to kind of bring down the overall risk.

383
00:36:35,390 --> 00:36:39,410
You know, Massachusetts is a risk-based program and there's math.

384
00:36:39,790 --> 00:36:42,930
The calculations and risk assessment that goes behind that.

385
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:51,670
But I do want to make clear that some targeted soil removal under a park concept would likely be needed.

386
00:36:52,410 --> 00:37:01,650
As opposed to the more you dedicate the site to a parking lot where it's not a recreational use,

387
00:37:02,650 --> 00:37:07,070
you know, the amount of solar removal may go down.

388
00:37:08,670 --> 00:37:12,930
But we, you know, I do want to say we haven't gone through the whole risk assessment process yet,

389
00:37:12,970 --> 00:37:17,730
so we would have to look at that, but to kind of sum it up,

390
00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:24,670
more parking lot likely less cleanup more park more cleanup would probably be likely

391
00:37:26,110 --> 00:37:29,850
but you know I think regardless of what you do it could be pretty

392
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:40,040
Pretty targeted and pretty limited and kind of levers the fact that you have so much filled between, you know, where people are using it and what the pollution would be.

393
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:48,620
What are your thoughts on if we did a multi-level parking garage in that site? What would be your thoughts on that idea?

394
00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:56,620
as it relates to the contamination or just contamination and set use?

395
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:08,820
I mean, I guess I'm not a parking expert, but I guess my first question is would there be demand to support two levels of parking?

396
00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:19,000
And I don't know the answer to that, so that would be sort of the first question, what's

397
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,760
the need for that amount of parking?

398
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:28,200
I mean, Denise had talked about, I think, was accessing the top of the parking, perhaps

399
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:35,940
from the road, I'm not quite sure, and then around back accessing a lower level from the back.

400
00:38:35,940 --> 00:38:45,440
can we go down because of the contaminant in the soil is there a way to go deeper and make it a

401
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:53,160
street level at the top level and then a lower level. Yeah, you certainly could. Yeah, I mean there's

402
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,180
nothing to say and you can't do that and you know at that point you're likely going to have to do some

403
00:38:58,180 --> 00:39:04,740
or mobile, but because you're not getting the same kind of separation,

404
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:07,780
but you're also

405
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:08,660
paving it.

406
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,980
So all those things are considered as part of the sort of risk assessment and clean up and

407
00:39:12,980 --> 00:39:17,140
like, what do we have to remove to bring this down and meet state standards?

408
00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:25,520
But I guess what I'm not clear on is, you know, if you're going to, I would think if you're

409
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:31,480
a build of a two-level parking deck, you're dedicating most of that site for that purpose,

410
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,700
or would it be?

411
00:39:34,140 --> 00:39:38,300
I want to think if you did about the same amount of parking, but you did it in two levels,

412
00:39:38,980 --> 00:39:42,300
you're using more vertical space than horizontal space.

413
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:48,420
So then you have more room for green space if we want a hybrid sort of area.

414
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:50,180
So...

415
00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:51,600
That's even throw solar on top.

416
00:39:55,260 --> 00:40:03,160
Okay, so the footprint of the theoretical parking deck would kind of match the parking that you're seeing here.

417
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,220
Is that the idea?

418
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,800
Yeah, just for conversation.

419
00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:11,960
Let's say it was half of that, half of that in size, but it went up another level.

420
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,120
So, in thinking what Denise Andrews was saying,

421
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:44,600
If we could take half of that vertical space and put it on top of the other space, you now access from behind and you go into a lower level, and then you have an upper level that's street accessible, we would have parking for the owners that they wanted, and we could perhaps have that green space that

422
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:52,870
Um, others wanted. Is that something that's doable to you think?

423
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:54,050
Um, there.

424
00:40:54,370 --> 00:40:59,690
Well, I guess the question is, you know, are you getting your bang for your bucket at that point?

425
00:40:59,870 --> 00:41:00,950
Because it sounds expensive.

426
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:03,690
To start to go vertical.

427
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:04,690
Yeah.

428
00:41:06,430 --> 00:41:12,190
So, I think that would be the first question that would have to be answered.

429
00:41:13,870 --> 00:41:17,530
From a environmental standpoint, yeah, it's certainly doable.

430
00:41:19,950 --> 00:41:24,530
But from an overall construction and return on investment, I guess that's what would

431
00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:26,030
give me pause about that plan.

432
00:41:28,370 --> 00:41:28,710
Thanks, Tim.

433
00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:29,890
You're welcome.

434
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:30,930
Car?

435
00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:41,680
Microsoft Survey Responses, when we close to the ad for this, we included the Microsoft Survey

436
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,600
It's a QR code and then on the website as well.

437
00:41:45,860 --> 00:41:46,440
Oh, microphone.

438
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:47,840
Oh, sorry.

439
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,200
I felt like I was missing something.

440
00:41:53,020 --> 00:41:55,540
So we have free survey responses

441
00:41:55,540 --> 00:42:00,040
from a Microsoft Forms from a QR code that was posted

442
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,920
in a newspaper with the hearing ad

443
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,920
and also posted on our website,

444
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,520
via link and the first ones,

445
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:15,780
admitted anonymously, develop a shared municipal parking and riverfront

446
00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:20,940
comments that supports downtown housing and commercial growth while

447
00:42:20,940 --> 00:42:26,060
creating public access, open space, and unobstructed views of the

448
00:42:26,060 --> 00:42:30,180
Miller's River and Dam. The project should balance economic

449
00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:33,900
development needs with environmental stewardship and provide

450
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:37,980
a welcoming waterfront destination for residents and visitors

451
00:42:37,980 --> 00:42:48,160
a like. The second is from Vicki, South Main Street Orange. First is the building really

452
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,520
sold with a future plan of development.

453
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,640
Do we want to address that or just read the comment

454
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,200
first?

455
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,560
But let's trust them, just so.

456
00:42:59,580 --> 00:43:05,480
Well, I believe that you've already said that it is that you're

457
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,340
planning on moving forward with us, right?

458
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:07,660
Right.

459
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,120
So I think that's the answer to a question.

460
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,760
Is it really kind of happened?

461
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,720
Well, there are people that want to make it happen that are here tonight.

462
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,480
So I agree with a couple of comments about money

463
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,860
up front and the skin and the game and all that, but it's only

464
00:43:24,860 --> 00:43:29,200
because aren't just been burned a few times here.

465
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,880
A second comment, same person.

466
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,680
Second, this is a beautiful waterfront location.

467
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,200
Another parking lot would ruin the beauty of it.

468
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,920
But because of the dam, water access activities

469
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,040
would not work.

470
00:43:42,540 --> 00:43:46,000
Not sure if it could be set up as a park for all ages to enjoy,

471
00:43:46,620 --> 00:43:49,860
access for limited parking of food trucks vendor area

472
00:43:49,860 --> 00:43:53,280
to have more weekend set up a vendor selling their wares.

473
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,540
A place for all to enjoy, sit to eat, and relish the view.

474
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,860
A place with some playground equipment for the kids.

475
00:44:01,420 --> 00:44:03,080
A location for vendor tents.

476
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:09,840
It would take an initiative for somebody to look up grants to see what is available to use for the financing.

477
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:16,660
And then I have another comment,

478
00:44:16,660 --> 00:44:18,740
anonymously submitted.

479
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,620
Um, calorie crop, food forest demonstration site,

480
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:30,560
moan, blowgrass, closer to trunks of trees in late spring,

481
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,920
plus moan, wide paths for tick free foot traffic.

482
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:36,480
Second priority.

483
00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:42,400
Third place hang out spot, open 8 a.m. to midnight daily.

484
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:50,040
with signage from Main Street and Path well-lit at night and I will add for people who aren't familiar with what a third place means

485
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:56,140
I believe that means like a place that's like not home or work or school but to just go hang

486
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,980
Third priority mixed use housing and storefront

487
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:11,040
Fourth, add a bit of handicap access parking, previous, sorry, pervious surface, or covered with pitched roof photovoltaic for winter.

488
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:23,100
Fifth, a few paid parking places, previous surface, sorry, pervious surface, and then there is no such thing as free parking.

489
00:45:23,740 --> 00:45:28,660
If we make this whole thing into parking, we are shooting ourselves in the foot again. Thank you.

490
00:45:28,660 --> 00:45:34,280
What was the first sentence in that response that we're talking about?

491
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,800
Is there some kind of crop?

492
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:37,480
Calorie crop.

493
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:40,340
I don't understand what that is.

494
00:45:40,540 --> 00:45:41,640
Do you know?

495
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:47,220
I would assume it's a crop that has calories, maybe like corn or something.

496
00:45:48,740 --> 00:45:51,620
Maybe somebody else knows that's savvy.

497
00:45:51,860 --> 00:45:54,160
I open it to the audience.

498
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,960
What a calorie crop is.

499
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,180
I think you're right.

500
00:45:57,180 --> 00:45:58,240
Yeah.

501
00:45:58,820 --> 00:46:04,580
We'll put that into the possibilities as growing corn on the others.

502
00:46:04,580 --> 00:46:04,760
Any other?

503
00:46:07,210 --> 00:46:14,530
Google says it's just a crop with ranked high in calories per square foot, so like sweep

504
00:46:14,530 --> 00:46:15,870
potatoes and stuff.

505
00:46:17,230 --> 00:46:18,130
I don't see any.

506
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:20,810
Let me take a look at the Q&A.

507
00:46:24,210 --> 00:46:24,850
Okay,

508
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,380
we have a comment from Denise Andrews asking about the decision timeline and process.

509
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,740
I think George

510
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,540
will have

511
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:02,780
a question on when that was cleaned up.

512
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:08,360
They didn't clean down to what was the base of the building to begin with.

513
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,040
the cleaner I thought they cleaned it down and took the contaminants out.

514
00:47:13,140 --> 00:47:15,760
I got it to put a machine on that.

515
00:47:17,220 --> 00:47:18,200
Yes, we have.

516
00:47:18,380 --> 00:47:19,440
Tim, no, I'm so excited.

517
00:47:20,380 --> 00:47:20,400
Yeah.

518
00:47:20,460 --> 00:47:21,240
I'll move on with him.

519
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:22,220
Thank you.

520
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:24,100
Thank you.

521
00:47:31,410 --> 00:47:35,910
The clean up done two years ago was just of the brick pile.

522
00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:37,570
So the asbestos debris.

523
00:47:38,350 --> 00:47:42,310
And so part of what we've done since then is a more in-depth environmental

524
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:49,010
investigation that went into the ground. So below, like where the building slab was. So all that

525
00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:53,750
brick was sitting on top of the building slab. Right. That's what Scott removed. Once that was removed

526
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:59,590
then we did the more in-depth investigation and found it. We understand that the only asbestos

527
00:47:59,590 --> 00:48:12,290
contamination was in the glazing of the window, which was minimal. Right. Well, they blew it all out of

528
00:48:13,110 --> 00:48:17,290
is where of the windows was the potential

529
00:48:18,750 --> 00:48:19,870
asbestos problem.

530
00:48:20,610 --> 00:48:22,410
Well, if you stopped and think about that,

531
00:48:22,410 --> 00:48:25,850
compared to that building, that's not much contamination.

532
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:26,970
Right.

533
00:48:27,590 --> 00:48:28,190
Maybe so.

534
00:48:28,910 --> 00:48:29,970
I don't know the answer.

535
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:31,170
Well, I've lived here for ages.

536
00:48:31,170 --> 00:48:31,490
Right.

537
00:48:32,650 --> 00:48:33,610
You could be right.

538
00:48:34,410 --> 00:48:38,150
I didn't see any full survey of what the asbestos

539
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:39,970
wasn't that building before it burned down,

540
00:48:40,210 --> 00:48:41,450
but once it was down,

541
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:49,530
There's really no way to know or at least be able to segregate it in a way that is efficient.

542
00:48:50,350 --> 00:48:57,230
The way it was spoken at the time was that the only past-best contamination was what was in the glazing of the windows.

543
00:48:57,810 --> 00:48:59,950
Yeah, I can't even get any more when it burned.

544
00:49:00,470 --> 00:49:08,830
I can't say that the work that was done immediately after the fire, the D.P. led, there was

545
00:49:08,830 --> 00:49:14,530
record that there was pieces of a specialist that had sort of become airborne and landed

546
00:49:14,530 --> 00:49:17,110
in other parts of town and other properties.

547
00:49:18,550 --> 00:49:22,330
So that is part of the record, I can't verify that.

548
00:49:22,330 --> 00:49:24,270
I didn't see some of the floating around that day.

549
00:49:25,170 --> 00:49:25,570
Right.

550
00:49:27,330 --> 00:49:38,330
I believe that when we met in May, there was a statement that there is contamination on

551
00:49:38,330 --> 00:49:38,750
the site.

552
00:49:39,010 --> 00:49:46,490
It's deep underground and it would preclude us from using it for residential or daycare

553
00:49:46,490 --> 00:49:50,770
center or some things that would be very sensitive, but it's so deep and so expensive

554
00:49:50,770 --> 00:49:58,590
to get it out. Yeah. We can do things on top without any risk. Well, the comment would be

555
00:49:58,590 --> 00:50:03,330
that historically, if somebody was talking about access with the threshold going across

556
00:50:03,330 --> 00:50:10,210
it, go to Javanese. Historically, the railroad has been very reluctant to let anybody on the

557
00:50:10,210 --> 00:50:10,650
property.

558
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,400
Yeah, I don't know whether the railroad even knows it.

559
00:50:18,620 --> 00:50:20,920
But then you got to maintain it

560
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:29,500
forever. So that's the downside. Because I, as a kid, I remember the, the paper mill

561
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:34,080
using is a storage, and I remember switches pushing cars into that building.

562
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:36,870
Thank you.

563
00:50:40,890 --> 00:50:41,530
Paulie?

564
00:50:42,590 --> 00:50:45,030
I think I'll stand.

565
00:50:47,350 --> 00:50:48,630
You can pull it.

566
00:50:49,050 --> 00:50:49,970
I just have a chair.

567
00:50:50,550 --> 00:50:51,090
I just have a chair.

568
00:50:51,330 --> 00:50:51,450
Yeah.

569
00:50:51,450 --> 00:50:56,430
Yeah, probably big speed again. I just have a question like looking at the map

570
00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:58,170
We've got the splash pond

571
00:50:59,190 --> 00:51:03,850
There that green area. Is that beyond the contamination point?

572
00:51:04,050 --> 00:51:09,730
Because I think if you go there and look the people whose property is as I'm looking at this map

573
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:15,830
The property to the left. They have a fence and then there's a lot of you know a lot of

574
00:51:15,830 --> 00:51:21,530
The debris and stuff that's growing up there is a big huge tree that fell across that area

575
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:25,450
But is that the area we're talking about right there?

576
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:33,690
So and if that's off the contamination thing then then the way this is drawn that being a park

577
00:51:33,690 --> 00:51:37,290
You don't have to go and check for all the contamination

578
00:51:38,350 --> 00:51:45,270
Right, I will say so the contamination that we found or that I guess the biggest issue in terms of

579
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:52,490
Risk is arsenic, so an arsenic's very common in urban fill this whole area was fill

580
00:51:53,110 --> 00:51:56,310
You know dating back to it's a original development, so

581
00:51:59,270 --> 00:52:05,070
It's sporadic I guess is what I'm saying in this we go walk on the property right right right, right?

582
00:52:05,350 --> 00:52:12,030
Right, so you know if you're gonna do like a walking path and and you know things of that nature then you know

583
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:22,050
It's that kind of sort of targeted clean up that I'm talking about where you're focusing the money and the effort to do it on, you know, the highest risk areas.

584
00:52:23,570 --> 00:52:29,770
And that part of the site is sort of, you know, we didn't fill as much there because it was already close.

585
00:52:30,000 --> 00:53:01,740
I don't think there's any fillings of the grade, like in my fill, I mean the recent work, when we brought in all the back fill out to the brick pile was gone. So, but I guess what I'm getting at is the contaminations kind of sporadic site wide, because it's an, okay, I guess what I'm, what I'm kind of getting at is kind of like what I said before is that if you have to spend the money, and we don't like to throw away money, then that's a lot of money.

586
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:07,100
area if there's no can if there's the building wasn't there I don't think I think there's

587
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:11,820
enough room between where the building was and where it fell down and where the end of

588
00:53:11,820 --> 00:53:18,060
that property is and that trestle is in that area but you know it got to have boots on the ground

589
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:22,820
you got to go look at it so this is like what how can we tell by looking at this what happened

590
00:53:22,820 --> 00:53:28,440
to that part of the property was that was where their coal stores was because that's where all the

591
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:34,080
You know that that's where everything came in on that train trussle so that even though there wasn't a building there that was still

592
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,780
A part of the site where the land use was kind of

593
00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:41,840
What we will consider now a polluting land use where you're piled up coal and

594
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,700
Ash and things like that, so maybe maybe I don't remember unlike George

595
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:49,840
Old time or so, okay

596
00:53:58,700 --> 00:54:02,660
Okay, we have a handraise. This is Denise Andrews.

597
00:54:05,260 --> 00:54:05,300
Hi

598
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:12,560
Thank you for having the public hearing, some really great ideas on solar and pop-up food

599
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,360
tracks and community space to hang.

600
00:54:16,660 --> 00:54:22,680
There's not enough data for me, and as an engineer in particular, say nothing about financial

601
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:23,500
conservative.

602
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:31,680
We're talking a lot about arsenic and lead on science rules.

603
00:54:32,220 --> 00:54:33,800
We do ground samples.

604
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:40,500
We've done some, we've spent a lot of money already on Brownfield cleanup money, taxpayer money on this site.

605
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:47,780
So I would encourage all of us to get the data and come from the science on that.

606
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:57,400
When we had the pocket park, we had lead over there and one of the creative concepts was to plant sunflowers, which decontaminates the site.

607
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:07,020
So there are wonderful ways to do this at a lot less cost than expensive consulting and not going to the source called sampling.

608
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,580
So that's one point.

609
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:15,560
And the second is in Rome D and C.

610
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:16,820
Kelly's right.

611
00:55:17,020 --> 00:55:22,880
I mean if we cut in half, 50 on the lower level, 50 on street level, two story,

612
00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:26,660
get the construction cost and I hear that the owners are willing to pay.

613
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:33,240
So let them pay for half, okay, let the town, right, or get a lease, so that it pays out in 10 years.

614
00:55:33,700 --> 00:55:42,200
So there's a lot of great ideas here tonight, and I think at the end of the day, we have to move fairly efficiently, high quality, low time,

615
00:55:42,540 --> 00:55:48,860
get a decision so that we can have a concept that makes sense for economic development and quality of life.

616
00:55:49,020 --> 00:55:50,940
And again, thanks for the public hearing.

617
00:55:51,740 --> 00:55:54,860
Thank you, did you want else?

618
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:58,200
Cora?

619
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:04,080
Nope.

620
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,580
I think Reinic West Main Street.

621
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,560
So for those talking about the two layers, two levels.

622
00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:30,440
Are you talking about the AB section having parking over the lower level of AB as well?

623
00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:36,880
So that you're actually talking about a double decker over the AB section and the CD section is kind of the entry level?

624
00:56:37,820 --> 00:56:44,020
ground level, like can we two to level, not sure they've decided where to do that.

625
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:49,220
My concern about doing something like that is the green space on the north side of the

626
00:56:49,220 --> 00:56:54,840
green walk, the idea, you'd be shading it, so it'd be hard to get things to grow there

627
00:56:54,840 --> 00:57:00,920
because the construction would create a shade on that, because the south is the side of the

628
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,600
world that you can't get, that's the bottom, and that's the north up there. And growing things

629
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,580
on the north side is really, really tough.

630
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:09,520
I have spots in my yard where I just can't get things to grow,

631
00:57:09,660 --> 00:57:11,980
because it's the north end of the month.

632
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,920
The contaminants that we're talking about

633
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,800
are not the asbestos and such from the building,

634
00:57:20,860 --> 00:57:22,480
we're talking about the contaminants

635
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,640
of a long-term manufacturing use that get deep into the soil

636
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,260
in various ways that those of us who don't do manufacturing

637
00:57:29,260 --> 00:57:30,580
really know nothing about,

638
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:33,180
but that's the kind of contaminant you're talking about,

639
00:57:33,180 --> 00:57:36,380
not built construction contaminants.

640
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:37,000
That's right.

641
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,240
And also urban fill contaminants.

642
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:42,140
So it's very common in urbanized areas

643
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,540
to have contaminated fill.

644
00:57:46,580 --> 00:57:49,640
You know, way back before environmental regulation,

645
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,040
they would use anything to build up grades

646
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,900
for development on sites.

647
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,040
And the biggest issue is ash and coal.

648
00:57:59,860 --> 00:58:02,940
And ash by product that got put in the ground.

649
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:10,120
and used to build up sites, so it's all over New England, and so that's part of the issue here.

650
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:17,580
The other issue is that building burned down and created its own ash and concentrated chemicals

651
00:58:17,580 --> 00:58:26,880
just from wood and pre-ISO oil, and so that got into the ground as a result of the fire.

652
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:37,800
So it's hard to decipher what's what in that scenario, whether it was Urban Phil or from the fire or spilled during the industrial history.

653
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,000
And we have seen some of that.

654
00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:45,620
There's some solvents in the ground to not super high levels, but they are there. So it's a combination of things.

655
00:58:48,490 --> 00:58:55,370
I'm thinking at the moment, the state has a high desire for more housing and a high desire for more economic development,

656
00:58:55,370 --> 00:58:59,370
especially in this part of the state to have us get both of those.

657
00:59:00,110 --> 00:59:03,970
So it would seem to me that the parking, that's,

658
00:59:04,690 --> 00:59:07,410
that housing is not going to be possible in those buildings.

659
00:59:07,890 --> 00:59:10,070
It was, there's parking space.

660
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:13,610
I mean, nobody is really going to invest in any of those buildings

661
00:59:13,610 --> 00:59:16,550
if there isn't also the ability to park that parking.

662
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:19,910
So it seems to me a priority for us if we want those buildings

663
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:23,650
development should be some way of working out that parking.

664
00:59:23,650 --> 00:59:30,670
at least that portion of the lot that's needed for them to have parking, and whether it's a sale,

665
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:32,210
a lease, or whatever,

666
00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:38,410
that to me, the development of those buildings, should be one of our priorities.

667
00:59:39,390 --> 00:59:43,090
And that makes that parking a priority. And what we do with the rest of the lot, whether it's more

668
00:59:43,090 --> 00:59:51,710
parking, more park, to me as I looked over that area, I'm not very spatially, not never a good

669
00:59:51,710 --> 00:59:56,710
imagining things. So it did not look big enough to hold all of this. So I'm going to

670
00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:59,970
to trust the design calculation that that's...

671
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:07,640
That actually all fit in there. The, obviously, the design would have to change from that because the public

672
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:13,960
section would need accessible parking spaces as well as the private section. So, obviously, it won't be the full number of

673
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:22,060
spaces that's shown there, because they'll have to be sum over near the picnic area. But to me, this kind

674
01:00:22,060 --> 01:00:27,800
of conceptual exactly how far over the line gets drawn is to how much is park and how much is parking,

675
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:33,600
And whether some of the parking gets left non-parking so that you can put in food trucks or whatever,

676
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:41,840
which might require a electrical connection or something, whether to put in for electrical cars,

677
01:00:42,060 --> 01:00:43,640
all that kind of stuff comes later.

678
01:00:44,180 --> 01:00:50,540
The moment plan is a decision of whether to go ahead with planning that some of this gets used

679
01:00:50,540 --> 01:00:55,280
for parking for the neighbor and what we need to do next steps for whatever we're going to do.

680
01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:11,520
What it sounds like, that one of the things that we need to do is the testing of just how deep the contaminants are can we actually put a park over a part of this or would that be extremely expensive because of how much would have to be done.

681
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:29,600
And then the next plans is getting to design and putting in for the grants to try to get assistance with the town's portion of this construction because of it being good for attracting both housing and economic development into the downtown.

682
01:01:31,180 --> 01:01:31,800
Thank you.

683
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:32,960
Thank you.

684
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:37,180
Thank you.

685
01:01:37,500 --> 01:01:38,060
Excuse me.

686
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:48,720
Excuse me.

687
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,500
And we can't hear you.

688
01:01:55,050 --> 01:01:57,630
Did you read to raise your hand?

689
01:01:58,470 --> 01:01:59,770
Can you type in the chat?

690
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:06,540
I respond to that.

691
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:17,300
So, I mean, I didn't really think about if we take the C&D and put it over A and B,

692
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,260
we could do that, perhaps.

693
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:21,240
Whatever would fit best in the space,

694
01:02:21,740 --> 01:02:23,320
or my thought when I first was thinking,

695
01:02:23,740 --> 01:02:27,180
it was just taking sort of right down the middle

696
01:02:27,180 --> 01:02:35,600
and push it double height towards the housing and then you'd leave the left over

697
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:41,440
green space. But when you were saying these I was loving the thought of that space

698
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:49,180
for food trucks without parking places there would be great and perhaps if we could

699
01:02:49,180 --> 01:02:54,280
get grant money to do you know some charging stations we could do maybe perhaps

700
01:02:54,280 --> 01:03:01,160
solar that could get some money revenue for the town. These are real great brainstorming ideas

701
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:08,960
to that we needed on the site. That's what we wanted. Yeah, and the other part well we're

702
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:17,320
right too is I mean is there a way since Kathy you're here too that we could have the owners put

703
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:23,680
money into an escrow account of some sort where we hold the money so that we know that they've

704
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:29,240
If they're investing money towards it, like we know that they mean business, is there

705
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,820
some way that a town can do that?

706
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:39,120
I'm not sure of that.

707
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:43,240
The best person to answer this, but back when I was on the planning board years and years

708
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,580
ago, planning boards could require escrowing of various kind of things.

709
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:53,900
For instance, all of our solar farms, as far as I know, have escrowed money for decommissioning.

710
01:03:54,660 --> 01:03:57,620
So that would be part of the planning board process, I think.

711
01:03:57,620 --> 01:04:03,660
If there was something like that going on, I don't know if there's any other process open

712
01:04:03,660 --> 01:04:04,600
to the town.

713
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:09,900
I would guess that if we're creating a public private partnership, the part of that partnership

714
01:04:09,900 --> 01:04:15,680
agreement could be money's put into escrow early on in the partnership so that we have

715
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,820
it available as the partnership continues.

716
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:25,720
The town could accept money from developers for our specific purpose, such as developing

717
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:30,800
parking, it's certainly something we've done in recent years.

718
01:04:32,750 --> 01:04:35,050
Can you give up on the end read?

719
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:37,410
She's a two type that was an accident.

720
01:04:37,830 --> 01:04:38,890
Oh, okay.

721
01:04:39,010 --> 01:04:44,040
Any other comments last going once?

722
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:44,920
Going twice?

723
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:45,920
Yes.

724
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:48,300
Didn't bring you down.

725
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:49,420
So you're a little safer.

726
01:04:49,420 --> 01:04:52,620
All right,

727
01:04:56,780 --> 01:04:58,720
Mary Wolf 40 East Merkel,

728
01:05:01,220 --> 01:05:07,900
my only thought is that if we left this as a full parking

729
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:14,740
lot like this, it's much more scalable, maybe we could have little carnivals,

730
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,060
the green

731
01:05:19,060 --> 01:05:22,560
market, the local farmers market, could go there.

732
01:05:23,140 --> 01:05:25,880
It's a lot closer to the middle of town.

733
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,220
It kind of is out and left field right now.

734
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:36,660
And then if you wanted to build later,

735
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:41,140
double parking lot, you can do it.

736
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,580
But for now, I think, you know, we have very little money.

737
01:05:45,580 --> 01:05:55,860
It would be nice to, you know, put that macatum on there and then we could use it as a center of count.

738
01:05:56,020 --> 01:06:00,240
And we used to have a third Thursdays, that's all gone.

739
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:14,840
So this is an important piece of count and I would just suggest leaving it the way this is actually pretty good for, as I can say, for our budget.

740
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:20,120
I mean, if it was my property, that's what I would do and build on it.

741
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:22,660
Thank you.

742
01:06:22,660 --> 01:06:23,660
Thank you.

743
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,720
Mr. Manager, do you have anything?

744
01:06:30,770 --> 01:06:36,450
Do you have the snow as landscaping design that we should put on the screen before we wrap up?

745
01:06:51,030 --> 01:06:52,150
I don't know.

746
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:53,450
I don't know.

747
01:06:53,530 --> 01:06:54,670
I don't know.

748
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:58,090
I don't know.

749
01:06:58,090 --> 01:07:05,050
area and go down deep enough so you would know how father contaminants came from when the new home

750
01:07:05,050 --> 01:07:10,410
was there and you wouldn't have to excrete the whole thing, but do course samples and you

751
01:07:10,410 --> 01:07:17,430
get a pretty good idea on that. Yeah, we did that. You did do course samples, okay. Okay, because

752
01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:22,110
you know, it wasn't explained it and say well we got this and we got that but it wasn't saying

753
01:07:22,110 --> 01:07:27,150
how you got to, so you did course samples and that's how you got contaminants. Yeah. Okay, we did

754
01:07:27,150 --> 01:07:29,970
And then I'm sad that our main meeting with...

755
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,100
They met with us. They were talking to us about what they actually found.

756
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:35,280
Right. Right.

757
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,640
We'll have a work construction for about 40 from my years. I guess I might, you know,

758
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,080
a little expertise in what you can do to find it.

759
01:07:42,100 --> 01:07:43,180
Yeah. Yeah.

760
01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:44,820
Thank you. Thank you.

761
01:07:44,900 --> 01:07:45,100
Thank you. Thank you.

762
01:07:45,140 --> 01:07:50,460
Thank you. So we have on the board right now designed by Snowinson.

763
01:07:51,620 --> 01:07:53,120
Do you want to speak to it, Matt?

764
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,820
Sure. So this is a landscaping design.

765
01:07:56,820 --> 01:08:02,500
It wouldn't be a complete design plan that you could go out to bed with, but it's a really great conceptual

766
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,240
scale drawing of what a

767
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:11,380
Potential walking park would look like here. So you have a trail

768
01:08:11,380 --> 01:08:21,800
Within the park with specific tree plannings and then a proposed splash pad with a parking area in the center and then another parking area to the north

769
01:08:22,460 --> 01:08:29,480
or to the southwest. This is flipped upside down. So this is another idea that we

770
01:08:29,480 --> 01:08:35,120
wanted to put in front of the board. This is drawn by a human unlike the

771
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:40,540
last drawing, which is drawn by AI. But this is another approach. I've been

772
01:08:40,540 --> 01:08:44,100
having a really hard time getting a straight answer. I know a fan's out of

773
01:08:44,100 --> 01:08:48,960
Fresno Niel about what if this is feasible knowing the current underground

774
01:08:48,960 --> 01:09:07,460
conditions and whether or not we could bid out something like this now or if if we would need to do targeted solar removal and I think that's kind of the struggle for us right now is that Tim doesn't have the full answer yet and we only have a few months with the money to

775
01:09:07,460 --> 01:09:10,480
essentially clean up after the fire.

776
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:14,240
So the brick pile of your mark was to clean up after the fire.

777
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,320
So it's job is done and we're trying to deploy it

778
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:19,860
in a strategic way.

779
01:09:20,100 --> 01:09:21,800
Tim and I have been trying to brainstorm ways.

780
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:26,240
We can spend down this money efficiently by the end of December.

781
01:09:27,180 --> 01:09:31,360
So we're really trying to understand what the town wants to see here

782
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:34,320
so that we can move forward our efforts.

783
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:43,520
Fuston O'Neil has paused the elements of the contract that we signed with them a few months ago that we're related to designing so

784
01:09:45,220 --> 01:09:49,680
That's still baked into we had a hundred ninety one thousand dollar contract with Fuston O'Neil

785
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:55,700
We spent about 50,000 there's about a hundred and forty thousand balance on that contract that's itemized

786
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:02,340
And if we're knocking I use that part of the contract and we want to shift things around

787
01:10:02,340 --> 01:10:07,200
there might be more than $200,000 left, but no matter what we do, we don't have a whole

788
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:14,140
lot of time. And whatever we do, I really need to go back to DP and say, this is what we're

789
01:10:14,140 --> 01:10:21,200
going to do. Is this something you'll reimburse? And so they were fine with us, redeveloping the

790
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:30,560
parking lot for, who was it great upon about a year ago as a parking lot with a green elements.

791
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,180
So they said if you could do parking to resource and buy it to the lot

792
01:10:35,180 --> 01:10:42,720
It also would help contain any remaining contaminants and they also said you if you can make a green that would be better since it's better for the environment

793
01:10:44,060 --> 01:10:46,780
So I don't think that DEP would be against

794
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,800
More of a recreational type park, but we would need to know

795
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,380
From the environmentalists on the job

796
01:10:54,380 --> 01:10:57,740
What what's feasible and that's what we really need to know

797
01:10:58,420 --> 01:11:04,200
quickly, and then we need to know from the board where they want to go with this piece of land, too.

798
01:11:12,070 --> 01:11:13,490
What's feasible in terms of cleanup?

799
01:11:13,650 --> 01:11:15,850
We need to know what the end point is.

800
01:11:16,030 --> 01:11:20,530
Like I'll say in earlier, it's different if it's a parking lot versus a park.

801
01:11:21,090 --> 01:11:29,190
So that sort of part of the reason behind the pause is, you know, we need to kind of understand what the town wants,

802
01:11:29,190 --> 01:11:33,890
And then that kind of informs what the cleanup would cost and, you know, what it would look like.

803
01:11:35,310 --> 01:11:44,590
It sounds like it sounds like the, the, everybody is sort of consistently saying that we need the parking,

804
01:11:44,930 --> 01:11:50,270
but we want some, it's like a hybrid of both. That's what it sounds like. So,

805
01:11:51,830 --> 01:11:58,050
it just matters how we spend, like we don't want to lose that money and we can't save that money, right?

806
01:11:58,050 --> 01:12:03,650
So then how do we how do we best because that's like that's the

807
01:12:03,650 --> 01:12:10,370
This wasn't like a grant type money. This was an earmark. So essentially there was a

808
01:12:10,370 --> 01:12:13,290
Disaster's fire and orange and

809
01:12:13,290 --> 01:12:21,170
Suzy webs and Joe come afird a petitioned in the court to get us money that essentially is derived from our befunding

810
01:12:22,050 --> 01:12:27,130
And our befunding had to be spent in general by December 31, 2026

811
01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:33,950
So the chances of an extension are probably pretty low. I'm still going to see if we can do it

812
01:12:35,130 --> 01:12:40,250
But it wasn't like a grant to build a park. It was a grunt. It was a hear mark

813
01:12:40,250 --> 01:12:46,310
Too clean up the asbestos late in bricks, right, but we want but we want to be

814
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:51,650
So mindful right of making sure we use that money if we have a plan

815
01:12:51,650 --> 01:12:57,830
I had a that we wanted to do something like this. Let's use that money that's gonna benefit us for this next project

816
01:12:57,830 --> 01:13:00,550
right, that's what we're trying to do.

817
01:13:02,050 --> 01:13:11,050
So what I heard was that there's a strong interest to provide parking to enable the economic

818
01:13:11,050 --> 01:13:19,810
development of the Carol's Quarter. However, since we've been down this road more than once,

819
01:13:20,510 --> 01:13:26,730
we don't want to close this door in anticipation of that happening. So I think that's the

820
01:13:26,730 --> 01:13:35,830
conundrum for me is that if a core capital is going to do it, we need some kind of good faith

821
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:42,630
soon to let us know that, yeah, it is worth while setting aside essentially half of that

822
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:52,090
lot for parking and we've been here before, we need to know and the building permits would

823
01:13:52,090 --> 01:13:57,470
the engineering would help all these things but we have a time line deadline from the

824
01:13:57,470 --> 01:14:02,650
rest of it. We have a lot of money to me a lot of money resting on that that goes

825
01:14:02,650 --> 01:14:09,110
out at the end of the year. I think at this point too, putting a financial, a financial

826
01:14:10,390 --> 01:14:16,230
piece to show that they're really, spin in the game. Right. I think that that's really

827
01:14:16,230 --> 01:14:21,130
important. What do you think David on that? Well, yeah. I mean, anything we can do to

828
01:14:21,130 --> 01:14:27,850
encourage them to get involved in it would be a good move for sure. We have in front of us

829
01:14:27,850 --> 01:14:32,970
two very thorough plans, two thought-out plans, and I'm wondering as I'm looking at them,

830
01:14:33,150 --> 01:14:39,230
as maybe they can be combined a little bit better. I don't know that we need all those

831
01:14:39,230 --> 01:14:45,410
parking spots, but maybe if we added the ones that they want, plus some others, that would give us

832
01:14:45,410 --> 01:14:52,530
more green space, that green space can be turned into a parking lot anytime if something comes up.

833
01:14:52,890 --> 01:14:59,970
But at least we have the green space to use in the near future until we get to a point that we need to...

834
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:20,660
One of the things I thought about doing was seeing if we couldn't procure material for any beneficial use of the lot, for example, almost no matter what we do, we're going to need to build a retaining wall.

835
01:15:20,660 --> 01:15:31,240
And while we don't have enough money to build a retaining wall, we may have a decent amount of walls we could buy and get walls on site,

836
01:15:31,620 --> 01:15:40,200
so that we could have some materials on hand that could be used for anything that happens down the road,

837
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:47,520
since we don't have a lot of time to spend money. And so that could be a good way to deploy capital now, get materials on site,

838
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:58,060
And then go forward with a design, pursue additional grant money down the road next year, for example, to get to that end target.

839
01:15:59,420 --> 01:16:10,700
And even with the designing, I mean, we can work out a properly engineered design plan that incorporates elements of snow landscape design, the drawings, the survey.

840
01:16:11,420 --> 01:16:16,520
But even with that set of design plan, you're going to want to have a design hearing before

841
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:17,740
we get a final design.

842
01:16:18,420 --> 01:16:24,820
So even if we could probably work out a design in this second quarter of the fiscal year,

843
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:30,020
we wouldn't be looking at a design hearing until next January, February, anyway.

844
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:38,900
So for me, spend as much to get a marketable design ready to see if we can't procure material

845
01:16:38,900 --> 01:16:43,980
for the site that could be used in any case, that way we can spend down the money without

846
01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:47,360
we do have and then pursue additional funds next year.

847
01:16:53,420 --> 01:16:58,200
It sounds like, no matter what we do, we need to bring a lot of fill in to level it.

848
01:16:58,500 --> 01:17:00,580
So there's the right expense right there.

849
01:17:00,900 --> 01:17:03,600
We could bring in more fill just to get it higher up.

850
01:17:03,820 --> 01:17:12,520
So even then, between those two elements, we could spend down cash and it also achieves

851
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:18,500
environmental goals if we bring in more fell make it more level we further separate ourselves

852
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:21,740
from the underground contaminants that are concerned as well.

853
01:17:21,940 --> 01:17:25,560
Since I think a beatman is going to be impossible.

854
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:28,700
I don't know if we could fully debate the law.

855
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:29,640
What do you think, Tim?

856
01:17:30,220 --> 01:17:32,360
I think you'd need to fully debate it.

857
01:17:32,580 --> 01:17:34,100
No, I think you can leave some contamination.

858
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:38,560
It's just a matter of, you know, a more targeted approach.

859
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,060
other comments.

860
01:17:47,690 --> 01:17:54,710
So it sounds like the thing on the table that is to deal with a

861
01:17:54,710 --> 01:18:02,190
court company about coming up with reassurances for arms that this is going to move

862
01:18:02,190 --> 01:18:08,490
forward. And that's what we're looking for. And that being said, I put that portion

863
01:18:08,490 --> 01:18:15,050
of our hearing away and inform you that we have upcoming meetings next Wednesday, 10, 7, 10,

864
01:18:15,390 --> 01:18:18,870
21 and 11, 4, 11, 4,

865
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,180
and to that end, I did contain motion too.

866
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:25,700
Sorry, sorry.

867
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:26,480
Go ahead.

868
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,900
So we don't need to make any other decisions here.

869
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:33,920
No, I've got a push point, I don't believe.

870
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:41,850
So just in recap, just because that's how my brain works, so we're going to ask the owners

871
01:18:41,850 --> 01:18:48,370
of the building to, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

872
01:18:48,830 --> 01:18:55,130
Just to firm up dates as far as what their timeline is for the building, engineering, building

873
01:18:55,130 --> 01:18:57,590
permits, you'd like all that together.

874
01:18:58,430 --> 01:19:03,190
So I'm putting you back on the town manager to come up with a workable plan that we would

875
01:19:03,190 --> 01:19:04,030
be happy with.

876
01:19:04,270 --> 01:19:09,130
And to that end, we've done, we really, the purpose of this meeting was to give everybody

877
01:19:09,130 --> 01:19:19,710
who wanted to have input and it sounds like the idea is a hybrid of both and making sure

878
01:19:19,710 --> 01:19:26,130
that we have enough parking place for the building if they're investing in orange and

879
01:19:26,130 --> 01:19:33,490
they're really serious about it and then having some other parking places and whether it be

880
01:19:33,490 --> 01:19:40,570
if it's, you know, if we can get designs of a two story in that place or just a single story

881
01:19:40,570 --> 01:19:49,350
as Mary was talking about with food truck area, maybe electric charging stations perhaps,

882
01:19:49,530 --> 01:19:58,350
maybe some solar, maybe outlets for when they're, if we did a market or fair there, keeping

883
01:19:58,350 --> 01:20:00,810
that green space, so that's sort of a design.

884
01:20:00,810 --> 01:20:06,090
So it sounds like design things, we're just at the public hearing phase brainstorming phase.

885
01:20:06,490 --> 01:20:06,510
Right.

886
01:20:06,510 --> 01:20:07,250
And we've heard it.

887
01:20:07,310 --> 01:20:07,930
But yeah.

888
01:20:08,370 --> 01:20:14,750
But yeah, we need to find what we need to have the town manager has to know what the conceptual

889
01:20:14,750 --> 01:20:17,230
thought is, what we want to see in the design phase.

890
01:20:18,430 --> 01:20:20,750
So we're not going to ask them for all these different options.

891
01:20:20,930 --> 01:20:22,970
We're going to say, this is what we're kind of looking at.

892
01:20:23,470 --> 01:20:23,610
Right.

893
01:20:23,970 --> 01:20:24,550
That's my thought.

894
01:20:25,330 --> 01:20:27,770
Well, I'm a different thought on this.

895
01:20:27,770 --> 01:20:33,590
I believe that when I got, but I wanted out of this meeting, I got in that is that a course

896
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:41,730
serious and we need to get met and them together to come up with a plan that would be

897
01:20:41,730 --> 01:20:47,850
amenable to both of us to pull this off as far as whether we do a splash pad or a double

898
01:20:48,350 --> 01:20:53,370
parking lot or anything like that is down the road. I just want to let everybody have a chance

899
01:20:53,370 --> 01:20:56,370
to talk to that end, to expand the money.

900
01:20:56,710 --> 01:21:00,150
Yeah, but that's the key as to make sure we spend as much as

901
01:21:00,150 --> 01:21:02,730
as much as money as we can for things that we need.

902
01:21:03,450 --> 01:21:08,170
And so I like that idea of trying to get whatever materials we would need

903
01:21:08,170 --> 01:21:12,070
to make it happen through the grant money.

904
01:21:13,170 --> 01:21:16,490
And just, and would we keep them on that site?

905
01:21:16,650 --> 01:21:20,550
Would we put the materials on that site or just buy them ahead of time

906
01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:23,150
and have it like they owe us that?

907
01:21:23,150 --> 01:21:25,530
like prepay for it and keep it on their site.

908
01:21:25,930 --> 01:21:28,630
Yeah, you have to take delivery to pick.

909
01:21:29,610 --> 01:21:30,370
That's municipal.

910
01:21:31,470 --> 01:21:33,710
So we could take delivery on site,

911
01:21:33,790 --> 01:21:36,390
maybe we could potentially take delivery in store it.

912
01:21:37,790 --> 01:21:40,850
But of course, if we spent the money for that site,

913
01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:43,070
we want to make sure it goes to that site too.

914
01:21:43,870 --> 01:21:45,310
So I think it's slippery slope.

915
01:21:46,930 --> 01:21:48,810
And if it's a matter of bringing in some fill,

916
01:21:49,070 --> 01:21:50,990
then I can talk to Tim about that.

917
01:21:50,990 --> 01:21:54,850
and bring in potentially some wall material.

918
01:21:56,010 --> 01:21:57,890
And maybe even if we get wall material,

919
01:22:00,310 --> 01:22:05,150
store it on site, maybe we can work out something with a local company that's willing to donate some time,

920
01:22:05,410 --> 01:22:08,990
or potentially leverage the highway crew to do some work too.

921
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:14,630
Where we get heard on these projects is paying prevailing wage.

922
01:22:15,370 --> 01:22:20,050
So, when you have to pay prevailing wage for horizontal or vertical construction,

923
01:22:20,050 --> 01:22:27,030
pay top dollar based on wages determined through negotiations between the unions and Boston and the governor

924
01:22:27,030 --> 01:22:29,970
essentially so you pay a lot of money to get a profit.

925
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:59,180
So we could procure material ahead of time with the money we have and then do additional procurement on the road if needed. So again, it would be all in the spirit to try to use the capital we do have to turn into tangible use. We don't have, it's unlikely that we have enough money to fully do any of these design concepts as is.

926
01:22:59,180 --> 01:23:06,840
because the cost of building that parking lot design with the splash pad is certainly a

927
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:13,540
one to $2 million project. The cost of this landscape design, if we went on and bid this job

928
01:23:13,540 --> 01:23:18,600
as is, and you had to couple in any type of environmental abatement work at the same time,

929
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:25,440
as well as putting in for your full wetlands delineation design, getting through the conservation

930
01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:30,900
commission process and then actually procuring material and building all this. This is probably

931
01:23:30,900 --> 01:23:36,680
a six to eight hundred thousand dollar project right here. You've got two to three hundred. So

932
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:57,310
I just don't see it happening unless you, yeah, I just don't see it. It's the time that I'm

933
01:23:59,910 --> 01:24:02,190
Not 300, but let's be clear.

934
01:24:03,470 --> 01:24:06,230
Long times, like, Matt's right.

935
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:09,110
We got to have a grants to get the concept

936
01:24:09,110 --> 01:24:11,770
that is designed and approved.

937
01:24:12,590 --> 01:24:15,050
Okay, but it can be done, it's in steps.

938
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:18,610
And so as Kelly summarized, hybrid.

939
01:24:19,470 --> 01:24:20,550
Okay, green space.

940
01:24:21,150 --> 01:24:23,490
We really get to be clear on how we obeyed

941
01:24:23,490 --> 01:24:26,250
because I think we have two very different

942
01:24:26,250 --> 01:24:31,130
thought process on that with very different implications, but we won't go into that tonight.

943
01:24:32,650 --> 01:24:37,690
And skin in the game is more than building, get a building permit and tell us your timeline.

944
01:24:38,130 --> 01:24:40,910
We've been down that road with three other owners.

945
01:24:41,730 --> 01:24:48,010
My, if it was my property, I'd say, up, give us that, and put $100,000 in an outscrope.

946
01:24:48,450 --> 01:24:53,270
Okay, if you can't put $100,000 in, do it in four payments over the next two years.

947
01:24:53,270 --> 01:25:06,470
Okay, if you can't do that, if you sell the property, we put a lean on the buildings and we get a hundred grand out of that because a building permit in a timeline and my opinion doesn't cut it, we've been down this road.

948
01:25:06,970 --> 01:25:10,590
So Lisa's comments about this is all the owners need to do.

949
01:25:10,910 --> 01:25:19,030
I would say no, we need cash on the barrel head somehow to say this is a real deal. Thank you.

950
01:25:19,390 --> 01:25:21,330
And we want them here. We do want them here.

951
01:25:21,330 --> 01:25:23,050
We want them to know that we want them here.

952
01:25:23,430 --> 01:25:25,870
Absolutely, we want them here and we'll do the parking.

953
01:25:26,230 --> 01:25:27,870
We want them, we're excited, right?

954
01:25:27,990 --> 01:25:30,590
We're very happy to have them come,

955
01:25:30,770 --> 01:25:33,310
but we just need to see more.

956
01:25:34,690 --> 01:25:34,710
Yeah.

957
01:25:35,330 --> 01:25:39,290
So to that end, I would entertain motion to adjourn the meeting.

958
01:25:39,830 --> 01:25:40,990
It's 655.

959
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:41,850
So moved.

960
01:25:42,010 --> 01:25:43,130
Second that.

961
01:25:43,870 --> 01:25:44,710
All those in favor?

962
01:25:45,510 --> 01:25:45,810
Hi.

963
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:47,890
Thank you, everybody.

964
01:25:48,050 --> 01:25:48,450
Thank you.