1 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,920 Just so you know, I don't know if you 2 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,480 would like to get a snack. This this 3 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,679 beautiful spread has been created by um 4 00:19:37,679 --> 00:19:41,120 Denise, Sydney, and Lori. Thank you. And 5 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,120 I hope I'm not forgetting anybody. If 6 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,960 you'd like to get food now, we can. Or 7 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,960 we've had a break partway through. Or 8 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,360 you can just when your stomach tells you 9 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,440 or your head tells you to go over and 10 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,360 eat, go eat. 11 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:53,840 >> Beautiful. 12 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,719 >> This looks beautiful. So, yep. So, I 13 00:19:56,719 --> 00:19:57,920 don't know what you would like to do. Do 14 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,159 you want to get some snacks now before 15 00:20:00,159 --> 00:20:02,000 we start or 16 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,280 >> Sure. 17 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,920 >> Okay. We're going to grab our snacks and 18 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,440 then we will be back to start our 19 00:20:07,440 --> 00:22:20,470 meeting. 20 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,320 Hey Teresa, are we ready? All right. 21 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,960 Again, welcome to our work session 22 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,320 today. Uh before we get started with the 23 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,840 items on the agenda, I want to turn the 24 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,960 time over to Bren to introduce our new 25 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,040 economic development director. 26 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,560 >> Yes, mayor and council. I'm really 27 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,880 excited to introduce Garrett Anderson to 28 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,320 you uh today. He just he just started 29 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,360 yesterday. 30 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:46,239 >> Yeah. 31 00:22:46,239 --> 00:22:49,199 >> Um he he has, you know, family and 32 00:22:49,199 --> 00:22:51,679 history from from the county, but we we 33 00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:54,000 stole him from the good state of of 34 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,800 Colorado. and and uh what's really um 35 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,239 I'm really excited that he's going to 36 00:23:00,239 --> 00:23:02,639 proactively take ORM's economic 37 00:23:02,639 --> 00:23:05,120 development efforts to the next level 38 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,239 and without being prompted by Bryce or 39 00:23:08,239 --> 00:23:11,360 Ryan and I he already knew and and 40 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,280 suggested to to uh help us focus on 41 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,480 attracting experiential retail to the 42 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,199 city. Um so comes highly educated, 43 00:23:21,199 --> 00:23:24,080 highly experienced and and already kind 44 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,120 of with a uh predisposition in helping 45 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,960 with uh the ORM way and taking that to 46 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,880 level. So 47 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,880 we we've also made sure that he's 48 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,159 humble, hungry, and smart and our our 49 00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:41,280 expectations are super high. So with 50 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,360 that introduction, [laughter] 51 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,920 what else what else to say, right? Uh 52 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,120 yeah, happy to be here. We uh relocating 53 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,040 from Colorado just uh just most 54 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,560 recently, but originally I'm from the 55 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,480 Chicago area. Uh spent most of my career 56 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,719 in the Midwest in uh Illinois and 57 00:23:56,719 --> 00:23:59,120 Missouri, but um yeah, very happy to be 58 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,239 here. Happy to speak into a such a a 59 00:24:02,239 --> 00:24:04,480 beautiful community that's uh just 60 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,199 really focused around um experiences and 61 00:24:07,199 --> 00:24:10,080 families. And that's all all mostly what 62 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,840 I've been doing in my career anyway. uh 63 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,679 working with uh sports tourism downtowns 64 00:24:15,679 --> 00:24:18,239 um a lot of um you know ways that people 65 00:24:18,239 --> 00:24:20,159 engage in their communities and happy to 66 00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:22,480 be in helping with that too. 67 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,239 >> I'll also uh you know invite any of you 68 00:24:26,239 --> 00:24:29,840 to to reach out to Garrett if there's 69 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:35,840 businesses you want to reach out to or meet with or want or you want us to 70 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,400 have give special attention to or follow 71 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760 on. He has a ton of experience and and 72 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,040 that predisposition to be very public 73 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,560 facing and business. 74 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,840 >> The main thing I lack right now is a 75 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,400 local network. So please uh introduce me 76 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,400 to anybody you think is an important 77 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,480 network. 78 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,149 >> Running. 79 00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,679 » Thanks Karen. Good to have you on board. 80 00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:05,360 All right. 1.1 I um our first item or 81 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:07,440 listed item on the agenda is a 82 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,120 presentation on the public safety 83 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,679 revenue dedicated fund. 84 00:25:11,679 --> 00:25:16,239 Turn the time over to um Brandon Nelson. 85 00:25:16,239 --> 00:25:20,239 >> Um hopefully be relatively brief. Um the 86 00:25:20,239 --> 00:25:24,159 time has come will to make decisions and 87 00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:26,480 uh especially as we start next week into 88 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,159 our tenative budget. Uh, one of those 89 00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:32,080 decisions that I I need to make sure 90 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,440 that um we're all okay with moving 91 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,719 forward with is is this item that we 92 00:25:38,719 --> 00:25:41,679 touched on I believe uh last week um as 93 00:25:41,679 --> 00:25:43,760 well as I know Bren has um discussed 94 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,600 this with if hopefully all of you but if 95 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:51,760 not u many of you um and so that is the idea of separating our public safety 96 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080 fire and police into their out of the 97 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,920 general fund and into their own special 98 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,639 revenue fund. The more important element 99 00:25:58,639 --> 00:26:01,120 of that, to be honest, is the uh 100 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:05,199 dedication of Forum City's current 101 00:26:05,199 --> 00:26:08,880 general operations property tax. Uh the 102 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,480 county and the state tax commission 103 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,880 need me to notify them of that decision 104 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,960 to move forward. And that doesn't mean 105 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 it is set in stone, but they would like 106 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,840 to be able to start getting their things 107 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,199 on their ends ready. Um, and it would be 108 00:26:27,199 --> 00:26:30,639 easier for them if they know that that's 109 00:26:30,639 --> 00:26:34,560 going to be coming. Um, so it's not 110 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,800 really anything we necessarily need to I 111 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,199 just need to make sure in that May 12th 112 00:26:39,199 --> 00:26:40,560 meeting there will be an item a 113 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,040 resolution where you will um put that uh 114 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,199 to pencil to autograph if you will. Um, 115 00:26:49,199 --> 00:26:51,120 but this is more just to make sure that 116 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,520 when I'm presenting that tenative budget 117 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,920 that everybody understands what they're 118 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,280 going to see in that uh presentation. 119 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,440 Um, and that that is part of that 120 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,520 tenative budget. Um, 121 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,080 are there any questions? Hopefully you, 122 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,120 like I said, you all seen this. Um idea 123 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,320 being to move that into uh the public 124 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,719 safety into its own fund so we um it's 125 00:27:16,719 --> 00:27:20,480 better visible to citizens as to that 126 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,120 fund and the operations of our public 127 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:28,080 safety um folks then associated revenues 128 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,120 that go with that and part of that 129 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,520 dedicating the property tax to that 130 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,920 purpose. There any questions 131 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,800 >> about that? Can you just kind of in a 132 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,600 nutshell talk about the genesis of this 133 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,239 and if this has been used other places 134 00:27:46,239 --> 00:27:48,400 and successes maybe? 135 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,600 >> Yeah. So there are three I'm aware I'm 136 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,719 aware of Midvail has done it and I 137 00:27:54,719 --> 00:27:57,360 believe there are two other localities 138 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,560 that have already done it. Um this went 139 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,480 into as a possibility into law in 2020 140 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,360 2019 I believe it was 2019. 141 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:12,320 Um the and uh not only is it for that 142 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,520 purpose, Utah County is also 143 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,840 dedicated uh a portion of their property 144 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,840 tax to their health and human services 145 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,639 department. Um so it's not just public 146 00:28:22,639 --> 00:28:26,560 safety. um other entities have 147 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,920 is gone through that route dedicating 148 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,440 portion of their property tax to 149 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,239 whatever specific efforts um they want 150 00:28:36,239 --> 00:28:39,360 to tie that to. I will say in talking 151 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,000 with the tax commission it it is much 152 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,040 easier to move to dedicate to move it 153 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,080 into the special revenue fund much more 154 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,360 difficult to then go back so everybody 155 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,760 understands. So, so what you're saying 156 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,000 then is if we decide to do this then and 157 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,000 move all of our property tax over into 158 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,560 this fund that we need to be very 159 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,239 committed to keeping it in that fund 160 00:29:04,239 --> 00:29:05,600 which I which I support. 161 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,760 >> Correct. Just want to make sure you're 162 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,320 aware that 163 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,000 >> you have a I'm sorry I'm putting you on 164 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,480 the spot here. uh like a a guesstimate 165 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,960 the percentage of our budget that would 166 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,280 be our entire budget, not just our 167 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,880 property tax, but kind of so to give 168 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,560 people perspective of what we're talking 169 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:23,360 about. 170 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,080 >> Uh so you can see up here our fiscal 26 171 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,360 budget was 38.1 million out of 172 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,480 approximately 72 million of the general 173 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,639 fund 174 00:29:34,639 --> 00:29:36,480 just short of you know just a little 175 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,239 over half. [clears throat and cough] And 176 00:29:38,239 --> 00:29:41,840 so the property tax or will be the 8.1 177 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,600 >> property tax the all well so it's not 178 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,280 all 8.1 the 8.1 was all of our property 179 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,000 tax which includes the money for our 180 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,960 general obligation bonds. So that 181 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,000 portion will not the actual amount is 182 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,360 about 6.5 million. 183 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,960 So that remaining 1.6 Six is related to 184 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,560 the general obligation bonds and that 185 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,560 will stay within if you will in the debt 186 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,239 service fund general fund. 187 00:30:12,239 --> 00:30:15,440 >> Um, you have a question. 188 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,000 >> Um, Brandon, uh, I I like uh the benefit 189 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,040 of being able to signal that our 190 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,040 property tax is being dedicated u to the 191 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,960 police and fire budgets. That seems like 192 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,040 a benefit. It helps provide some 193 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,800 transparency to residents about where 194 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,600 this this money goes. Uh is there any 195 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,320 other benefit besides that? Uh from a 196 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,199 financial perspective, it sounds like 197 00:30:41,199 --> 00:30:42,960 one of the potential drawbacks is just 198 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,600 we lose some flexibility in the future 199 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,239 and and if I understand correctly, 200 00:30:48,239 --> 00:30:52,000 any future property tax revenue um would 201 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,960 be dedicated to this as well. So you 202 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,520 still you still retain the possibility 203 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,840 of if you wanted to do a profit tax 204 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,440 increase specifically related to the 205 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,760 general fund to general city operations 206 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:04,320 going here. 207 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,760 >> You could do that through truth and 208 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,800 taxation and and add that. Um they now 209 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,360 become in essence two separate taxes. 210 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,880 Obviously the one is going to be zero 211 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,400 for the time being and the other one 212 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,800 would be all all dedicated to uh public 213 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,800 safety. That does not eliminate 214 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,120 possibility of going through truth 215 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,120 taxation and and adding money to the 216 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,360 general fund if that ever needed to 217 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,320 occur. 218 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,880 >> But any additional property tax revenues 219 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,199 that we just would normally acrue would 220 00:31:33,199 --> 00:31:34,880 automatically go into the special 221 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,840 revenue 222 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,320 >> right now. Yes. Under this proposal, I 223 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,199 should say. Yes. 224 00:31:39,199 --> 00:31:41,120 >> And are there any additional benefits uh 225 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,159 to this other than transparency of of 226 00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:46,639 about where that money goes to? That's 227 00:31:46,639 --> 00:31:48,159 really those are the really the big 228 00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:51,040 items is you get to see the total budget 229 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,120 of the of the public safety fund and 230 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,840 it's right there all by itself and the 231 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,480 associated revenues that are linked to 232 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,679 public safety. Um so yes and the so 233 00:32:01,679 --> 00:32:03,360 those are the positives that you would 234 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,239 get to see and your point the dedicated 235 00:32:06,239 --> 00:32:07,760 revenue 236 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,199 allowing citizens to see 237 00:32:11,199 --> 00:32:12,800 all of their property taxes being 238 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,520 dedicated to source. 239 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,360 I guess I would just like to hear police 240 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,000 and fire a bit and see if if they have 241 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,760 any concerns or if you're supportive of 242 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,239 this 243 00:32:24,239 --> 00:32:29,679 supportive um they a stable revenue 244 00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:31,920 source is 245 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,000 opening um and property tax is stable, 246 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,639 sales tax not so much. And so to me 247 00:32:38,639 --> 00:32:41,520 that's interesting 248 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,280 as I see it 249 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,360 >> and I look at it as I think the city 250 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,120 dumps a ton of money into all of our 251 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,120 place. I think that we're employees are 252 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,360 your number one asset and they should be 253 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,719 and I feel like this carves out public 254 00:32:54,719 --> 00:32:57,760 safety not in full but it I think it 255 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,840 provides an opportunity for all the 256 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,679 other departments be made more whole um 257 00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:05,520 because of this dedicated fund. So I 258 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,440 think across the board everybody wins by 259 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,920 separating this less competition for 260 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,040 dollars even though they're the same 261 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,520 dollars. I think it could view my 262 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,080 perspective as different. So I look at 263 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,600 it as a huge win. 264 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,159 >> If I can just emphasize I know that 265 00:33:22,159 --> 00:33:25,440 property tax is typically not a 266 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,560 wellbeloved tax um by by the general 267 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,840 public. At the same time, to kind of 268 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,560 emphasize what Chief Robinson said, if 269 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:42,400 there is a downturn and a devaluation of properties within the city on any 270 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,199 given year, then the property tax rate 271 00:33:45,199 --> 00:33:49,760 actually automatically goes up. So the 272 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,199 revenue is intended to always be the 273 00:33:53,199 --> 00:33:56,400 same from property tax and that's just 274 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,120 how it's possessed in Utah. And so, uh, 275 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,400 it does provide another benefit is is 276 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,560 essentially that sense of of safety or 277 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,239 protection or being covered, um, uh, to 278 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,080 provide the wages and benefits and 279 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,159 equipment for our public safety even in 280 00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,760 the event of a of a major downturn. 281 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,600 >> And just to really clarify, right, it's 282 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,360 only 20%. 283 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,600 You're still going to need our general 284 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,159 fund to be successful. um our economic 285 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,639 development director we just met do his 286 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,760 magic so we can continue to fund you at 287 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,880 the level that we have excellence. So 288 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,719 >> well and I think that both BJ and I 289 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,639 certainly recognize that but it also 290 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:46,719 doesn't exempt us from an in sales tax 291 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,080 that we don't have to tighten our 292 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,760 budgets because we have a scented fund 293 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,199 and I think that would be an expectation 294 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,600 that you would have across the board for 295 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,360 all of our departments and so it doesn't 296 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,800 isolate us. We still have 297 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,639 responsibilities to be fiscally 298 00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:02,950 responsible. 299 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,280 » Actually, it would be more obvious 300 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,840 >> because it's its own fund and so it'd be 301 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,520 much more easily available to not only 302 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:18,149 you but the public to to see. 303 00:35:18,159 --> 00:35:19,520 » I was just saying thank you for having 304 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,120 that point of view. I feel like you guys 305 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,199 are both very mindful of this is 306 00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:24,560 taxpayer money that funds your 307 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,960 departments and to be responsible with 308 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,360 it and you are. Thank you for that and 309 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,120 doing their best to support you. 310 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,880 >> We definitely feel that from the mayor 311 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,360 council and the rest of the exec staff. 312 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,600 This is this is a different process and 313 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,400 so speak for both of us when I just say 314 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,880 thank you for supporting all of our 315 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,600 efforts actively. 316 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,679 >> Great. So what I'm [snorts] hearing and 317 00:35:51,679 --> 00:35:53,199 even though this is in the work session, 318 00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:55,679 we don't we don't make formal decisions, 319 00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:58,719 but I'm I'm sensing that uh as we go 320 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,800 forward in creating the budget that we 321 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,120 go ahead and that this will be part of 322 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,280 the budget that be presented to us next 323 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,400 week is to create this fund and then to 324 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,159 move and do move the monies into it. 325 00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:14,480 Okay. So that's how you will see it 326 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,360 within that tenative budget and 327 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:18,800 obviously like I said like I said there 328 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,639 will be a resolution and that resolution 329 00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:22,960 will basically spell that out and I'll 330 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,639 be providing that resolution to the 331 00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:27,280 state tax commission and the county. 332 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,199 >> Okay. Okay. So next week starts the 333 00:36:29,199 --> 00:36:29,600 process 334 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,320 >> doesn't officially happen until we you 335 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,280 know uh actually go through that process 336 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,600 of certifying our tax rate. So, and 337 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,840 another thing uh Bren wanted me to make 338 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,480 sure we mention this 339 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,440 is separate discussion from a property 340 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,880 tax increase. This can this can happen 341 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,920 irregardless of what we may do on that 342 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,239 end of the spectrum and it doesn't 343 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,760 affect this. 344 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,520 >> No, it's a completely separate item. 345 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,440 >> Just want to make sure we understand 346 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,639 really two totally separate elements. 347 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:05,520 >> All right. Thank you. 348 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,239 All right. The next item on our agenda 349 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,880 is our continued discussion on the 350 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,080 short-term rental holds. And as Jake as 351 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,159 he gets set up, just want to express my 352 00:37:18,159 --> 00:37:19,920 appreciation to all of you for 353 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,679 conversations that we had last week, I 354 00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,280 feel like we're we're making progress as 355 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,199 far as what we're to see in this 356 00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:31,840 ordinance. And I would encourage you in 357 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,920 this this is a good this work session is 358 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,159 a good opportunity to to have 359 00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:39,360 discussion. And so I would just 360 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,960 encourage you to if you as you have 361 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,000 thoughts and feelings to go ahead and share those as we try and give 362 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,000 guidance to Jake as he's trying as he's 363 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,320 working to put together an ordinance for 364 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,760 our review. So right I'll turn the next 365 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,880 75 minutes over to you Jake. 366 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,880 >> Thank you. Thank you mayor. and and 367 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,960 hopefully this next uh section will be 368 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,119 as productive. I I really do appreciate 369 00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:05,440 the the discussions, the conversations 370 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,840 we had last week. Um it was very helpful 371 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,920 for me to kind of see where there's 372 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,000 comfort, where there's work to still be 373 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,840 done and where the direction we may be 374 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,960 heading. Um so I don't, you know, 375 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,040 miscalculate and we end up in Colorado 376 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,639 instead of on top of Tibonogus. So, I 377 00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:29,600 would hate to be that far off track. Um, 378 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,880 I left off on this screen and we had 379 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,679 started talking about occupancy and and 380 00:38:35,679 --> 00:38:38,800 how to potentially 381 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:44,159 uh deal with um short-term rentals and 382 00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:46,560 how to best balance effects in 383 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,679 neighborhoods, limiting potential 384 00:38:49,679 --> 00:38:53,199 uh party houses, but also providing an 385 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,239 economical or an economic viable option 386 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,719 for people um if they are going to 387 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,880 engage in short-term rentals. So, I 388 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,360 actually want to take a step 389 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,600 back from that and talk about it not 390 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,199 necessarily in 391 00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:11,679 practical numerical numbers, but to take 392 00:39:11,679 --> 00:39:14,000 a step back and talk about the general 393 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,000 principles or policies that might govern 394 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,840 the way that we would approach 395 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,320 occupancy. And the way I see it is 396 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,280 there's there's there's probably more 397 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,440 than these four. Uh but these are four 398 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,880 that are are typically used or discussed 399 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,480 or are or are seen out in actual 400 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,280 practice. And the first is that a a 401 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,600 municipality sets a numerical cap. that 402 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,800 a a municipal governing body says, "We 403 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,000 are comfortable setting this as the 404 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,080 numerical cap for any short-term 405 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,920 rental." And they they they do that 406 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,600 calculation based on their other land 407 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,880 use zones, based on practice, based on 408 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,679 experience with uh short-term rentals 409 00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:04,239 already that have been in operation or 410 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:05,520 what they've seen in neighboring 411 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,639 communities. Uh so for example, you you 412 00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:10,400 could set a cap and what we've discussed 413 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,199 in the past is eight individuals. 414 00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:15,679 Um some of the strengths of that is it's 415 00:40:15,679 --> 00:40:18,960 really easy to enforce. Um it's easy for 416 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,280 a neighborhood political team or a 417 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,360 uniformed officer to go out and see how 418 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,239 many people are occupying or in that 419 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,600 short-term rental at any given time. Um 420 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,400 it helps mitigate nuisance issues. if 421 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,000 you're if you're setting a cap that's lower than what our typ what we 422 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,320 would typically see for a party house 423 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,000 that helps mitigate some of those 424 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,040 concerns. Um, also it helps address some 425 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,560 of the public safety concerns that are 426 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,119 out there that again if you're having uh 427 00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:49,920 over congestion in a home. Uh it may 428 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,440 lead to potential parties or fights or 429 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,960 other negative effects within the 430 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,159 neighborhood that you're having public 431 00:40:56,159 --> 00:41:00,400 safety come out and respond to. Now, 432 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,119 there are weaknesses with that. Um, what 433 00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:05,119 we've discussed in the past is one size 434 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:08,560 fits none. If you if you set that cap, 435 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,639 um, that may not necessarily fit a 436 00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,119 two-bedroom apartment. Likewise, it's 437 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:15,760 probably not going to fit a six-bedroom 438 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,560 home. And so, by setting that cap, that 439 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,040 is one of the weaknesses. Also, it 440 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,920 provides really limited flexibility for 441 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,840 dealing with multi-generational family 442 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,199 travel. Um, and also it produces some 443 00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:32,080 economic inefficiencies if if you have a 444 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,440 short-term rental and part of that 445 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,119 short-term rental then sits vacant 446 00:41:35,119 --> 00:41:37,600 because of the occupancy they can't 447 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,119 actually rent it to its full potential. 448 00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:43,199 So that that would be one potential 449 00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:45,600 route. Another potential route is you 450 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,520 take an occupancy cap and you set that 451 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,480 as kind of the global or the maximum cap 452 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,040 and then you set an internal uh cap 453 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,080 based on bedroom calculation 454 00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,600 and I'm going to do this the third one 455 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,639 at the same time or in in lie of that 456 00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:05,440 bedroom cap you do it based on square 457 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,080 footage of the home. 458 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,679 Um, some of the benefits of that is it's 459 00:42:11,679 --> 00:42:14,800 scalable based on on the nature of the 460 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,239 short-term rental. Um, it may provide 461 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,119 better precision for, you know, what 462 00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,600 should occupancy be for this specific 463 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,440 short-term rental. Um, it also helps 464 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,199 deal deal with density. And when we talk 465 00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:33,119 about square footage, there is the 466 00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:37,119 benefit of that may limit the temptation 467 00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:40,560 for a short-term rental operator to cram 468 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,600 more beds in a bedroom. Uh because 469 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,199 you're going off of a a a very neutral 470 00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:49,440 square footage number that can't be 471 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,960 altered or uh you know uh manipulated in 472 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,520 a way that you could cram or or put more 473 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,800 people in than than necessary. Uh but 474 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,320 again they also have their own 475 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,000 weaknesses. Um requires more 476 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,880 administrative oversight at the time of 477 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,600 the application. Uh also provides their 478 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,440 own levels of ceiling conflict. Again 479 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,520 what if you have a larger home because 480 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,719 you have that maximum occupancy cap. The 481 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,719 square footage cap, the internal cap may 482 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,560 actually exceed what that maximum cap. 483 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,719 So you're still putting a ceiling there. 484 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,239 So that still creates that conflict. Um 485 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,080 and then there's also some verification 486 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,800 complexity again that is going to be an 487 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,600 is enforcement. 488 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,920 Um the fourth option is to do it solely 489 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,719 based on square footage and to move away 490 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,239 from an idea of a maximum occupancy cap 491 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,159 and to go solely based on a square 492 00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:46,159 footage. 493 00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,480 um that you would determine whatever 494 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,560 ratio the council feels comfortable one 495 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,719 per x square ft and from there um you 496 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,199 would set that that ratio sets the 497 00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:01,119 occupancy cap. Um again there are some 498 00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:02,719 benefits 499 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,440 there is again it's objective it's it's 500 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,159 easier to determine objectively. Um, we 501 00:44:08,159 --> 00:44:10,480 could also use county land records to 502 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,360 help support corroborate what that 503 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,520 square footage, but also know that 504 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:16,960 sometimes those land records are 505 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,840 inaccurate. And so there may be some 506 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,320 discrepancies between what a short-term 507 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,480 rental operator is reporting is the 508 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,560 square footage versus what we see on the 509 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,960 land record itself. Um 510 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,080 however the weaknesses here is it does 511 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,040 allow also for potential mega groups and 512 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,800 the larger the home the larger the 513 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,840 number of people. Um you know you could 514 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,480 argue the slippery slope um that it does 515 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,440 allow for potential larger groups which 516 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,320 would likely lead to potential party 517 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,280 homes 518 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,719 >> or event centers. 519 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:53,440 >> Yes. 520 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,040 >> Not everything's a party. Sometimes it's 521 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,000 just an event. 522 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,400 >> Yep. Um, and then we would also need to 523 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,639 if if the council were wanting to go 524 00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:03,040 this direction, we would absolutely need 525 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,000 to review our other occupancy limits 526 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,480 elsewhere within our code. Uh, we'd need 527 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,440 to make sure that we are um consistent 528 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,360 through our code in other land uses. So, 529 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,239 what does that Oh, Steve, so the the 530 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,159 options you're talking about here, I I 531 00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:22,239 assume are for the number of unrelated 532 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,960 people who can occupy an SDR. Are we is 533 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,880 there an underlying assumption that a 534 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,280 family a group of unrelated or of 535 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,639 related people um could also occupy? So 536 00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:36,880 if you had a family 15 that would be 537 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,159 >> So you're kind of jumping three slides 538 00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:39,119 ahead. 539 00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:41,199 >> Sorry. 540 00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:43,119 >> Um right now what I'm just talking about 541 00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:45,520 is occupancy in general. Not even 542 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,679 singling out single family or unrelated. 543 00:45:49,679 --> 00:45:50,880 I'm just talking about different ways 544 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,360 you can calculate occupancy. 545 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,239 So, how that would look is if we aren't 546 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,840 even talking about single family, if 547 00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,760 we're just talking about people, what 548 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,119 does this actually look like in 549 00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:02,639 practice? So, if you were to take a 550 00:46:02,639 --> 00:46:04,560 two-bedroom 551 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,520 uh 800 foot condo, what does that look 552 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,440 like under each of these different 553 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,639 scenarios? Same goes for 4bedroom house 554 00:46:12,639 --> 00:46:16,560 that's 2400 ft² or a sixbedroom estate 555 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,119 that's 6,000 square ft. So that kind of 556 00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:21,600 gives you numbers that are actual 557 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,360 practical numbers to see what that would 558 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,440 look like. 559 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,480 Now we have also talked about single 560 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,520 family being something that we could 561 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,400 overlap or overlayer. 562 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,800 And so if we were to adopt a single 563 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:42,000 family um and and in in many instances 564 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,760 exempt them from an occupancy limit 565 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,760 uh unless we're doing an internal home 566 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,080 occupancy limit. 567 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,639 Um this is what it would look like if we 568 00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:57,040 did that overlap. So for example, if we 569 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,159 were to say a global max of eight. 570 00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:03,440 Oh, I I'm using the wrong computer. Oh, 571 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,960 there. Oh, can you go? Yeah. Can you go 572 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,159 back to that one? Can we look at that 573 00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:07,600 one for just a minute? Because you 574 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:08,480 talked about it 575 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,864 >> and we've been looking forward to it. 576 00:47:10,864 --> 00:47:12,950 [laughter] 577 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:13,119 It's 578 00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:15,119 >> lost. Yeah. 579 00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:17,280 >> How would you define global max? 580 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,440 >> So, global max again would be saying we 581 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,080 set a standard across the city that for 582 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,639 short-term rentals, the maximum 583 00:47:24,639 --> 00:47:26,960 occupancy you could have would be X. And 584 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,040 in this scenario, I've picked the number 585 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,169 eight. 586 00:47:31,169 --> 00:47:32,320 [clears throat] 587 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,800 Internal would be looking at the actual 588 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,080 STR itself. What is the capacity of that 589 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,320 short-term rental either [snorts] using 590 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,040 short uh square footage or bedroom 591 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,800 capacity 592 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,840 and how that would interplay. 593 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,119 So, if you notice, um, 594 00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:54,400 for example, on that on the third column 595 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,719 over, 596 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,239 if you were to choose a square footage, 597 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,199 you still run into a ceiling where if 598 00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:03,840 you were to say one per 400, that really 599 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,760 allows 15 people there. But if you're 600 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,239 putting a a global max saying the 601 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:09,520 maximum we're going to allow for any 602 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,719 short-term rental is eight. Um that's 603 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,400 what you're would you you put this 604 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,880 artificial ceiling there at 8 even 605 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,199 though you have that internal 606 00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:22,480 uh occupancy limit that would exceed it. 607 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,600 So if you were to then overlap that 608 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,400 definition of single family, 609 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,679 >> this is kind of how that 610 00:48:31,679 --> 00:48:34,719 and if you have a single family that is 611 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,480 a larger single family 612 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,709 and kids 613 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,400 you can have a larger capacity 614 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,960 as opposed to 615 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,760 this sense. 616 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,199 This is 617 00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:58,310 >> too much less 618 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,440 families. You're talking about cousins 619 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,239 and family types of things or you 620 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,000 talking about 621 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,270 family. 622 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,520 So it's already family 623 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,920 as and it's up here. So total person is 624 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,560 like himself a related group group of 625 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,239 people who are related by blood marriage 626 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,119 adoption. 627 00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:30,480 Um this also includes two um two guests 628 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,280 that uh are there as a family. In that 629 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,560 instance, Quinn, um you you could have 630 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,840 grandparents, uncles, 631 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,480 uh children, grandchildren. 632 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,480 That that single family could actually 633 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,239 be a quite large group. 634 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,760 >> So I have seven siblings. We have his 635 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,320 community in the neighborhood. We could 636 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,239 all of us 637 00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,080 7 of us go in a home 638 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,760 and follow as a family 639 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,560 >> if that home was large enough. Yes. 640 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,600 A large enough parameter is what? 641 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,679 >> Based on number of bedrooms or based on 642 00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:11,440 square footage. Again, depending on how 643 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,199 you're deciding to move forward with 644 00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:14,159 occupancy. 645 00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:16,400 >> So, bedroom or square footage. 646 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,119 >> Correct. 647 00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:19,679 >> And bedroom. You're Did you say I'm 648 00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:20,719 trying to remember if you told me this 649 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,639 here um two beds or two people per room? 650 00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:26,320 Where did I see that slide? 651 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,119 >> So, again, under under this two people 652 00:50:29,119 --> 00:50:30,080 per bedroom. 653 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,320 >> Okay. 654 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,040 And and Jake, in theory, you could also 655 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,320 have a mixed rule which says three 656 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,560 people per room or square footage 657 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,159 requirements, whichever is higher or 658 00:50:42,159 --> 00:50:43,119 lower, right? 659 00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:44,719 >> Correct. The question then becomes how 660 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,320 complex you want to make this for 661 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,119 enforcement. And yeah, we could we could 662 00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:50,719 have multiple layers, but the more 663 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,480 complexity you add, 664 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,239 >> the harder it's going to be for both our 665 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,480 licensing official to determine 666 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,000 occupancy at the time we issue the 667 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,480 license. I think it would be beneficial 668 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,040 at the time the license is issued is to 669 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,920 set that occupancy limit. So what I'd 670 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,520 want to see happen is applicant comes in 671 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,840 and says, "So if we've decided the 672 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,440 bedroom route, my home has six bedrooms. 673 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,639 We determine occupancy [clears throat] 674 00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:18,800 at that time and issue an occupancy 675 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,840 limit on the license itself." Or if 676 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,159 we're going under square footage that we 677 00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:25,920 have the square footage, we corroborate 678 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,119 it with the uh Utah County Land Records. 679 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:30,880 We have an agreement as to how many 680 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,679 square footage qualifies and then we 681 00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:36,159 determine occupancy at that time and 682 00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:38,719 print it on the license. 683 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,960 >> And then we could see how the operators 684 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,840 advertise for rent space, right? 685 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,040 >> Yes. 686 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:52,400 >> Because so how do you prevent people from counting 687 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,119 couches as places to sleep? Like if you 688 00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:57,440 have a home that has bedrooms, but it 689 00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,440 has a whole bunch of gathering areas, 690 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,199 large rooms, 691 00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:06,719 what how would you recommend you then 692 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,880 stop 20 people from being there? 693 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,840 >> So if you were to op if you were to go 694 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,480 for the option of bedroom, what we'd 695 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,280 want to do is define bedroom and 696 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,080 occupancy per bedroom. As other cities 697 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,239 have done this, you look at about 100 698 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,960 square ft. You say a room that's 100 ft 699 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,480 or larger, uh, that is a bedroom, you 700 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,880 could put two people in that. Anything 701 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,639 between 70 and 99 ft could house one 702 00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:37,119 person in that bedroom. Anything below 703 00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:39,280 70 square ft, 704 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,440 um, I would not want us to define that 705 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:42,880 as a bedroom because what you end up 706 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:44,880 starting doing is having homes 707 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,119 segregated into small zones to add 708 00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:50,480 occupancy. closet under the stairs. 709 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,440 >> You end up with Harry Potter STRs. 710 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,840 >> Well, would you ever add window? Like to 711 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,040 be a bedroom, you got to have a window 712 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:58,080 legally. 713 00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:58,880 >> Um, 714 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:00,639 >> fire code. You do. 715 00:53:00,639 --> 00:53:02,000 >> Yeah. And a closet. 716 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,000 >> So, and a closet. I mean, do we have a 717 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,440 definition of bedroom? I guess maybe 718 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:06,000 that 719 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,560 >> most most um building code. 720 00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:09,440 >> You say we do. 721 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:10,880 >> The building code. Yes. Most other 722 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,040 short-term rental regulations, when 723 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,800 we're talking about occupancy, they 724 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,400 aren't throwing in uh an egress window. 725 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,119 They're not throwing in [clears throat] 726 00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:20,960 a closet requirement. They're talking 727 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,880 square footage. 728 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,639 >> But if we say bedroom, then we know 729 00:53:24,639 --> 00:53:30,400 we've covered the safety issue of 730 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:31,920 >> Oh, yeah. I mean, it would we would 731 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,199 definitely have to we would want to 732 00:53:33,199 --> 00:53:34,719 address that. The problem is we don't 733 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,880 police fire code in residential 734 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:40,800 facilities. If they're getting the 735 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,750 license, we could go inspect 100%. 736 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,800 » Okay. Any other questions so far on 737 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,400 this? 738 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,000 Okay. 739 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:59,109 Um, 740 00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:01,360 as we look at what makes up a single 741 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,199 family, again, you could really end up 742 00:54:03,199 --> 00:54:06,239 with a large group as long as the as 743 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,360 long as you have somebody who is related 744 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,920 by a qualifying relationship under our 745 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,520 code 746 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,760 um that covers all of the occupants, 747 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,040 that would count as a single family. So, 748 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,280 if you had a great grandparent there, 749 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,599 you had all of the posterity off of the 750 00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:26,719 great grand uh parent, all of that would 751 00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,480 qualify as a single family. 752 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,440 Um, as you get to the cousin level 753 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,280 though, if you only had two cousins 754 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:40,480 coming to rent an STR, cousin, and nobody higher up that then 755 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,080 relates, 756 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:43,920 those cousins would not qualify as a 757 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,960 single family. That is where our our 758 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,000 code delineates and boxs out single 759 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,599 family. 760 00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:54,080 But as long as you have two brothers or 761 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,920 a brother and a sister and then their 762 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,880 posterity, then everybody below that 763 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,639 still counts as a single family. Does 764 00:55:00,639 --> 00:55:04,639 that make clear sense how that works? 765 00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:06,560 Um, so again, you still end up with 766 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,719 larger groups under the single family 767 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,480 definition above and beyond what we 768 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,159 would count for the unrelated 769 00:55:12,159 --> 00:55:17,189 individuals. 770 00:55:17,199 --> 00:55:20,639 I want to come back and 771 00:55:20,639 --> 00:55:25,040 to this and and I would like to hear the 772 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,520 council's thoughts about the different 773 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,000 perspective approaches 774 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,320 how to address occupancy within 775 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,440 short-term rentals. 776 00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,480 >> Can I ask what your recommendation is 777 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,199 legally? what is 778 00:55:43,199 --> 00:55:45,199 easiest to 779 00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:48,239 maintain and justify and enforce and all 780 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:49,440 of that. 781 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,840 >> So there a couple different ways to to 782 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,480 address that question. I I think one is 783 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,760 from the area of enforcement um as you 784 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,400 have an officer responding or a 785 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,080 neighborhood improvement team member 786 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,800 responding, the clearer that we can make 787 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,199 the ordinance, the easier it is for 788 00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:08,880 enforcement. 789 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,199 the minute we get into super uh to 790 00:56:11,199 --> 00:56:15,199 multiple tiers of complexity, the harder 791 00:56:15,199 --> 00:56:19,280 it is. So, um going back to, you know, 792 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:20,880 what I was taught early on in high 793 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,920 school is keep it simple stupid. Um the 794 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,679 simpler we can keep something, the 795 00:56:25,679 --> 00:56:26,800 clearer that we can have the 796 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,840 expectations to the public. 797 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,560 >> It's difficult for us to determine your 798 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,239 relationship 799 00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:35,599 is a family. 800 00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,520 >> Get that app out that we What is it? 801 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:40,239 >> Ancestry. 802 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:41,840 >> Family tree. 803 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,599 >> So think about that. You're the officer 804 00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:46,239 coming to I'm saying me and Mark cousins 805 00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:47,119 are related. 806 00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:47,440 >> Sure. 807 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,520 >> Prove otherwise. 808 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,679 And so that's the difficulty. 809 00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:55,760 >> So you're kind of saying eight a number. 810 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,639 >> I'm just I'm I'm letting you know that 811 00:56:58,639 --> 00:57:02,639 it's difficult to enforce that. Um 812 00:57:02,639 --> 00:57:03,520 please 813 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,040 >> on the license I 814 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,760 I've had experience enforcing family 815 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,040 occupancy in in different relationships 816 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,560 quite a bit in a previous city. 817 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,040 You can come up with a definition and on 818 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,760 the license it can go through a process 819 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,400 and be determined and that's fairly 820 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,800 straightforward because we can go do an 821 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,639 inspection. We can see count the number 822 00:57:28,639 --> 00:57:30,320 of bedrooms if you want to do it by 823 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,800 bedroom. we can do that. If you want to 824 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,360 do a a global limit, we can do that. Um, 825 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,440 the simpler it is, the easier it is for 826 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,400 us to do it. 827 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,239 That's that's this much. The big rest of 828 00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:48,320 the iceberg is the actual enforcement. A 829 00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,199 call comes in in a complaint and when an 830 00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:54,480 officer goes to the door, they will have 831 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,679 no idea how many people are there. They 832 00:57:57,679 --> 00:57:59,360 can ask. 833 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:03,040 And believe it or not, people will say 834 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,599 if the limit is eight, it will be eight. 835 00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:08,320 That will be the answer you'll get. And 836 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,119 because they will know that's the 837 00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:13,199 difficult 838 00:58:13,199 --> 00:58:15,760 uh part of occupancy. If you're hoping 839 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,440 to enforce short-term rentals based on 840 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,719 occupancy, it is an extremely difficult 841 00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:25,280 if not impossible job for the police to 842 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,599 do. 843 00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:30,400 Can we do you you've you've separated 844 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,280 out occupancies on square footage. Can 845 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,400 we do an a bedroom calculation only? Is 846 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,159 that I don't see that option up there. 847 00:58:38,159 --> 00:58:38,719 Not 848 00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:39,440 >> we could do a bedroom. 849 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,719 >> So just say if you've got six bedrooms, 850 00:58:42,719 --> 00:58:44,639 12 people 851 00:58:44,639 --> 00:58:45,280 that 852 00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:46,639 >> you could take that approach as well. 853 00:58:46,639 --> 00:58:49,199 >> Just it's remove the cap and just say 854 00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:50,560 how many are in the how many bedrooms 855 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,000 are there in the house and then we know 856 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:53,687 that there are this many. But 857 00:58:53,687 --> 00:58:56,400 [clears throat] does that open us up for 858 00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,320 >> you could potentially end up with 859 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,159 getting, you know, bedrooms more 860 00:59:00,159 --> 00:59:03,360 bedrooms built within a home to to add 861 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,400 occupancy. 862 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,199 >> Well, but if it's on the license, I 863 00:59:07,199 --> 00:59:09,599 mean, if that's predetermined 864 00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:12,239 and inspected, this is how many bedrooms 865 00:59:12,239 --> 00:59:14,480 and there's two per bedroom. This is 866 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:15,360 your max. 867 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:15,760 >> Yes. 868 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,960 >> And everybody understands that owner 869 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,320 citybody knows that's your max. Does 870 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,199 that open us up for group homes using 871 00:59:25,199 --> 00:59:27,280 that same definition to be able to fight 872 00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,679 for them to have more occupancy? 873 00:59:29,679 --> 00:59:32,400 >> Yeah. So, as as I indicate here, both on 874 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,400 the the bedroom side as well as the 875 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,199 square footage, the minute we start 876 00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:39,440 increasing occupancy above what we've 877 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,040 allowed for other uses within our code, 878 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,280 that opens us up to are we treating 879 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,520 vacationers 880 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,000 better than we would be treating other 881 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,719 members of the public that have a right 882 00:59:52,719 --> 00:59:55,679 to residents in our residential zones. 883 00:59:55,679 --> 00:59:57,199 That could be group homes, that could be 884 00:59:57,199 --> 00:59:59,679 sober living facilities, uh that could 885 00:59:59,679 --> 01:00:01,840 be just generally our unrelated 886 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,199 individuals that we limit to three. Um 887 01:00:05,199 --> 01:00:06,560 there's a whole spectrum there that 888 01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:08,480 we're going to have to consider. 889 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,880 >> So this would impact on a long-term 890 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,560 rental 891 01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:13,199 as well. 892 01:00:13,199 --> 01:00:13,920 >> Possibly. 893 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,000 >> It could. We would have to decide if we 894 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,239 say well you know what it's I'm not a 895 01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:19,679 lawyer but we we we discussed this 896 01:00:19,679 --> 01:00:23,280 yesterday Jake and I did saying that we 897 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,599 the argument that well I'm only renting 898 01:00:25,599 --> 01:00:28,159 out 10 days a month or 15 days a month 899 01:00:28,159 --> 01:00:31,199 so the impact is less than if the 900 01:00:31,199 --> 01:00:34,239 long-term rental they're way it's that's 901 01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:37,520 what we get to decide as a council is 902 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:41,679 what what level of risk do we take and 903 01:00:41,679 --> 01:00:44,320 can I can I just can I just add 904 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:45,679 something that we talked about yesterday 905 01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:48,560 too. Uh yesterday I met with uh two 906 01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,480 different fam u several different people 907 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,440 about about short-term rentals and one 908 01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:54,960 of the discussions we had was about 909 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,960 occupancy and I you're probably going to 910 01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,840 go back to the option three at some 911 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,239 point which which is the occupancy 912 01:01:02,239 --> 01:01:05,280 solely um square footage 913 01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,159 u but but we would I think something if that's something that that we're 914 01:01:10,159 --> 01:01:14,320 interested in doing in order to avoid 915 01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,159 the concern that the legal 916 01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:19,119 staff has as far as 917 01:01:19,119 --> 01:01:22,320 sober living and short-term rentals. We 918 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,000 as a council, if that if that's an 919 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,679 option we want to look at, for example, 920 01:01:25,679 --> 01:01:27,599 the option three, one person per 800 921 01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:30,960 square ft for specific estates, we have 922 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,920 to be comfortable 923 01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,480 with that applying to other uses as 924 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,080 well. So if somebody were to have a 925 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,800 sober a 6,000 square foot sober living 926 01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,360 facility, we would and we said our our 927 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,679 standard was one per 800 square f feet. 928 01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:49,440 It would be we would have to apply that 929 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,080 same we could apply whether they would 930 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,239 do it or not. That would be up to them 931 01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:55,920 as far as what their state requirements 932 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,000 are and what best practices are for 933 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,320 their for the treatment and things like 934 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:04,400 that. But as we discussed, the really 935 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,719 the only way to do option three, I think 936 01:02:06,719 --> 01:02:08,960 to do safely if if that's something we 937 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,320 want to do is we're going to need to go 938 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,480 in with the understanding that we can't 939 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:18,560 single out short-term rentals. We am I explaining that correctly? 940 01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,119 >> Yeah. So, what I would how I would boil 941 01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:23,840 that down is if you are you are 942 01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,760 interested in allowing vacationers to 943 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,880 occupy residential homes at a higher 944 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,400 occupancy rate, as a council, you've got 945 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,639 to be willing to review and consider 946 01:02:36,639 --> 01:02:38,960 increasing your occupancy rate for other 947 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,520 uses in residential zones. 948 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,960 >> I I think there's one caveat to that may be that we probably would 949 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,400 enforce STRs differently. They're 950 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,159 subject to regular inspections. are say 951 01:02:48,159 --> 01:02:51,040 subject to specific, you know, parking 952 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:52,480 and other requirements that maybe the 953 01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:53,920 long-term rentals aren't, which may make 954 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,040 them an exception. 955 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,480 >> No, that Well, that's not true because 956 01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,280 we we uh sober living homes are subject 957 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,560 to inspection regularly. I mean, that's 958 01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:03,920 the concern. And it's not long-term 959 01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:05,040 rentals that we're 960 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:06,719 >> necessarily the restrictions that we 961 01:03:06,719 --> 01:03:11,760 would place on the use as far as um you 962 01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,440 know inspections or occupy 963 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,599 comes down to are you allowing an 964 01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:19,920 occupancy rate that is different than 965 01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,400 another occupancy rate and does that 966 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:26,400 create any sort of facial challenge to 967 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,520 our ordinance? Does that create any 968 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,320 other sort of um discriminatory 969 01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,560 treatment to any group of individuals? 970 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:36,800 >> I thought it was if if we classified 971 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,320 these as transient facilities versus 972 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,080 residential or long-term occupancy, 973 01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,320 which an a group home or any other 974 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:45,840 category might be that I feel like those 975 01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:46,880 are different rules. Is that not the 976 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:47,679 case? 977 01:03:47,679 --> 01:03:50,239 >> Again, under the FHA and the ADA, 978 01:03:50,239 --> 01:03:51,360 they're not going to look at it that 979 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:52,080 way. They 980 01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:58,229 >> will look at it as transient home. 981 01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:00,000 But 982 01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,360 uh this is going back to the question 983 01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,599 that you posed to us and I really 984 01:04:03,599 --> 01:04:06,400 appreciate the way that you have 985 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,760 outlined a variety of options here and I 986 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,280 appreciate the feedback as well. 987 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,840 Uh, I I would like to avoid a 988 01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,560 one-sizefits-all policy, right? Because 989 01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,679 I think that our potential properties 990 01:04:21,679 --> 01:04:24,880 that that do this vary widely in terms 991 01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,520 of base and bedrooms and all those 992 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,760 things, and I I'd like to recognize uh 993 01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,119 that they're quite different from each 994 01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:36,719 other. Um, I'm also very hesitant to 995 01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:39,440 have special carveouts for for people 996 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,719 who are related just because of the uh 997 01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:44,880 enforcement issues. I just I can see 998 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,760 from Gary and that that's just a a 999 01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,239 nightmare 1000 01:04:50,239 --> 01:04:53,199 and it's just I don't know how how you 1001 01:04:53,199 --> 01:04:56,320 would necessarily enforce that. So, um I 1002 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,960 guess I would be interested in exploring 1003 01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,679 either a two people per bedroom or a 1004 01:05:01,679 --> 01:05:06,400 square foot model. Um when you had those 1005 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,119 two different models up there, uh maybe 1006 01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:13,840 Yeah, right there. So, if it feels weird 1007 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,280 to me uh on the far right one that we 1008 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,239 would have a two-bedroom condo of 800 ft 1009 01:05:20,239 --> 01:05:23,679 that can only have two people, right? If 1010 01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:25,119 it's a couple, maybe that other bedroom 1011 01:05:25,119 --> 01:05:27,440 is vacant. That that that seems off uh 1012 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,229 to me. Um 1013 01:05:32,239 --> 01:05:36,480 but I also recognize, right, that 1014 01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,360 u you might have a six sixbedroom very 1015 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,760 large property. When they're eight, it 1016 01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:47,040 just doesn't make sense. And so in that case either uh the multiple 1017 01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:48,880 bedrooms or the square footage I think 1018 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,199 is a much better way of measuring um 1019 01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:56,400 density uh of occupancy of that 1020 01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,639 property. And 1021 01:05:58,639 --> 01:06:01,199 I I know that that adds some potential 1022 01:06:01,199 --> 01:06:02,800 complications 1023 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:06,000 to our lives 1024 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,639 um because of the way that we define 1025 01:06:08,639 --> 01:06:11,679 occupancy in other types of venues. Um, 1026 01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:15,199 but being able to have something that 1027 01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:16,960 feels equitable in terms of the space 1028 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,760 that's available and the density of 1029 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,000 occupancy of that space makes sense to 1030 01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:22,560 me. 1031 01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,119 >> So, are you saying no eight person cap? 1032 01:06:25,119 --> 01:06:25,440 >> Yes. 1033 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,199 >> So, you're not concerned about the sober 1034 01:06:27,199 --> 01:06:32,320 living? Um I believe that if 1035 01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,679 uh a space is large enough right that 1036 01:06:35,679 --> 01:06:40,079 people can occupy it um 1037 01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:42,159 in a in an appropriate space. I'm not 1038 01:06:42,159 --> 01:06:43,520 worried about who's in there. 1039 01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:44,719 >> Tell you what just happened to our 1040 01:06:44,719 --> 01:06:46,239 neighborhood. 1041 01:06:46,239 --> 01:06:50,639 >> Um you have a sober living home. Um it 1042 01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:53,360 used to be men, now it's women. Had four 1043 01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,079 of them come to a church with us. 1044 01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:59,060 Introduced to them there. Um, and that's 1045 01:06:59,060 --> 01:06:59,920 [clears throat] how we knew it was 1046 01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:01,599 women, not men anymore. 1047 01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:03,840 >> And there was a concern by one of them 1048 01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:08,079 reached out to um someone in our 1049 01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:12,239 um that said owner has delivered four 1050 01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:14,880 more mattresses and he's finishing the 1051 01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,639 basement right now. We have eight people 1052 01:07:18,639 --> 01:07:22,159 and he's talking about adding four more 1053 01:07:22,159 --> 01:07:26,000 people. There is one kitchen. There are 1054 01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,079 two bathrooms and they're very small. It 1055 01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:31,199 was an older home. These, you know, that 1056 01:07:31,199 --> 01:07:35,599 is that you help us with that. So, we 1057 01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:37,679 have another one just [snorts] up the 1058 01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:39,760 street a little ways that is autism, 1059 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,719 children with autism. Um, I would hate 1060 01:07:42,719 --> 01:07:45,840 to see this similar thing happen there 1061 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,480 because at that situ in that situation, 1062 01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,079 if we have them where they finish the 1063 01:07:50,079 --> 01:07:51,520 basement, they add more bedrooms, we 1064 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:52,960 don't we don't have the eight person 1065 01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,639 cap, that results in a lower standard of 1066 01:07:56,639 --> 01:07:59,040 care for that type of home, for the for 1067 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,119 the tenants, a potential for a lower 1068 01:08:01,119 --> 01:08:05,040 standard of care for the tenants in that 1069 01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,599 one type of home. So, if they had 12 1070 01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:09,199 children 1071 01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:12,719 with um autism 1072 01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:14,239 and it and they're able to do that 1073 01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:16,480 because of what we do here with an 1074 01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:18,719 intent, the good intent to help someone 1075 01:08:18,719 --> 01:08:21,760 who's trying to short-term rental 1076 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:23,599 >> more. 1077 01:08:23,599 --> 01:08:26,400 We're putting other people at risk 1078 01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:28,159 >> unintentionally, I believe. 1079 01:08:28,159 --> 01:08:31,040 >> So, that's why I'm I'm I kind of tend to 1080 01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,520 lead with our recommendation from our 1081 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,400 legal staff. the eight person have so we 1082 01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:40,000 don't go down that road which will 1083 01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,480 potentially be very harmful to these 1084 01:08:42,480 --> 01:08:44,000 ladies 1085 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,520 what's happened to them we had to stop 1086 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,079 it or to this other home now I don't 1087 01:08:48,079 --> 01:08:50,239 know of all the homes but I do know of 1088 01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:54,790 those two 1089 01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,520 foreseeable outcome the one was actually 1090 01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,000 going to happen 1091 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,719 so he would have been out of maybe that 1092 01:09:02,719 --> 01:09:04,480 would have been caught if they were 1093 01:09:04,480 --> 01:09:05,920 putting 12 where they can only have 1094 01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,840 eight. Um but maybe not. And then of 1095 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,560 course if then we allow this it would 1096 01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,639 have been okay thing for them to do 1097 01:09:14,639 --> 01:09:15,840 according to 1098 01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,520 >> you think the space in that facility is 1099 01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:19,679 large enough that 1100 01:09:19,679 --> 01:09:22,079 >> just putting it on bedrooms they're 1101 01:09:22,079 --> 01:09:23,760 qualifying that as a bedroom. I mean I 1102 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,000 know my house a 1980s level house the 1103 01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,440 bedrooms are very very small. has a 1104 01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:32,639 window, has a closet, and I can barely 1105 01:09:32,639 --> 01:09:35,199 fit a bed, a bedroom, much less a 1106 01:09:35,199 --> 01:09:36,960 dresser and everything. So, 1107 01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:38,639 >> so I'm I'm hearing maybe square foot is 1108 01:09:38,639 --> 01:09:41,920 better. I I don't think we I am not 1109 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,440 comfortable with going beyond 1110 01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:47,840 the occupancy because the the walls that 1111 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,000 it opens up for our long-term rentals, 1112 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,560 for sober living, for 1113 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,400 any of these home type situations, 1114 01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:58,880 we are putting that burden on 1115 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,920 neighborhoods to bear that burden for a 1116 01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,599 business. It's a hard burden to bear and 1117 01:10:05,599 --> 01:10:07,599 it's it's not a great You're right. It 1118 01:10:07,599 --> 01:10:10,159 is a one-size missall problem. But 1119 01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:11,760 that's the problem we have when we're 1120 01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,719 putting business in a residential zone. 1121 01:10:14,719 --> 01:10:17,199 It's not going to fit. That's why they 1122 01:10:17,199 --> 01:10:20,880 there's different zoning. 1123 01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:22,719 And there was a large home in my I just 1124 01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:23,840 thought of another one. In my brother's 1125 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,920 neighborhood that used to live in MPG, a 1126 01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,239 large home was purchased and everyone 1127 01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:29,679 was excited for a new family and it 1128 01:10:29,679 --> 01:10:32,480 became a sober living home. And same 1129 01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:34,320 thing, they ended up finding, they were 1130 01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:35,920 only supposed to have eight, but they 1131 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:37,840 had 12 and sometimes 14 people in the 1132 01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,719 house. And every time the neighbors had 1133 01:10:40,719 --> 01:10:43,280 to say, "Well, that's a new face." or 1134 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,480 you know they had to 1135 01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:49,760 at least that you know 1136 01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:54,159 I just don't think that's fair to 1137 01:10:54,159 --> 01:10:56,560 have to put in that situation because 1138 01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,440 we're trying to help a business owner 1139 01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:01,119 able enterprise in a residential 1140 01:11:01,119 --> 01:11:03,840 neighborhood succeed. 1141 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,400 >> I I do have some sorry I do have some 1142 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,079 additional thoughts just in terms of 1143 01:11:08,079 --> 01:11:09,520 what we're trying to accomplish with 1144 01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,400 this. Um, but I'm willing to save them, 1145 01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,679 Jake. Uh, if you want to still focus on occupancy limits specifically for 1146 01:11:17,679 --> 01:11:20,800 now. Is are you on this topic, Jeff? 1147 01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,639 >> Yes. 1148 01:11:22,639 --> 01:11:26,480 So, question. So, 1149 01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:29,199 I think a bigger concern than short-term 1150 01:11:29,199 --> 01:11:31,360 rentals 1151 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,000 is 1152 01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,199 um long-term rentals 1153 01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:42,480 where we have, uh multiple people living 1154 01:11:42,480 --> 01:11:44,880 in the same house, right? And I hear 1155 01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,320 this from people constantly. 1156 01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,159 you know, we have this house that's it's 1157 01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:53,199 a long-term rental and we don't know how 1158 01:11:53,199 --> 01:11:54,400 many people are there, but there are 1159 01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,679 cars coming and going constantly 1160 01:11:57,679 --> 01:12:02,560 and I know that's a a major problem for 1161 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,920 the NIT folks 1162 01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,719 um and impossible to keep up with. 1163 01:12:08,719 --> 01:12:14,149 That's aside from short-term rentals. 1164 01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:17,920 Um, so are you saying that if we change 1165 01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,199 the occupancy 1166 01:12:21,199 --> 01:12:24,480 or this then those long-term rentals 1167 01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:28,159 that actually opens up well more people 1168 01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:30,079 could cram into a home? 1169 01:12:30,079 --> 01:12:31,840 >> It depends. 1170 01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,000 Um, how I would answer that question is 1171 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,280 if we were to adopt a scaling 1172 01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:39,840 version for short-term rentals 1173 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,880 and we have a flat numerical cap for 1174 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:44,960 long-term rentals. 1175 01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,079 It does open up some legal arguments to 1176 01:12:48,079 --> 01:12:51,119 be had as to the validity of our cap on 1177 01:12:51,119 --> 01:12:55,669 our long-term rentals. 1178 01:12:55,679 --> 01:12:57,119 That's how I'd answer that question, 1179 01:12:57,119 --> 01:12:57,920 Jeff. Mhm. 1180 01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,599 >> So, I know I know that that's that's 1181 01:12:59,599 --> 01:13:04,560 always a concern is we have five 1182 01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,440 couples living in this house 1183 01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:10,639 and there are 10 cars in the driveway 1184 01:13:10,639 --> 01:13:12,239 and on the street. I mean, there's just 1185 01:13:12,239 --> 01:13:13,599 there's no parking to the street because 1186 01:13:13,599 --> 01:13:15,840 of that. That's a continual concern. 1187 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:17,199 Nothing to do with short-term rentals. 1188 01:13:17,199 --> 01:13:18,400 These are people that live there. 1189 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,880 They're students. They're families. 1190 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:24,719 They're uh multiple families. 1191 01:13:24,719 --> 01:13:28,000 And so, that Thank you for that. 1192 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,280 um point, but I I yeah, I would have a 1193 01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:37,270 concern if we're opening that to 1194 01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:39,520 is a separate issue, right? Parking is a 1195 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:40,880 completely separate issue. 1196 01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,360 >> So, even with a larger property, if if 1197 01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,920 we allowed them to host more people, we 1198 01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,000 could still put all kinds of parking 1199 01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:49,360 requirements to keep everybody off the 1200 01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:50,960 street. That would be the case in your 1201 01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,320 case, too. 1202 01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:52,800 >> Yeah. Yeah, I think 1203 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,040 >> I I'm just if I can just go back to I'm 1204 01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:56,400 just saying I'm not comfortable with 1205 01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:00,079 saying, okay, right now we have this 1206 01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:02,880 many people in this home, single family 1207 01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:04,480 home, 1208 01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:06,639 but now we're we're going to we're going 1209 01:14:06,639 --> 01:14:10,159 to add a few more layers on top of that. 1210 01:14:10,159 --> 01:14:13,440 So that I I I'm not saying one way or 1211 01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:15,199 the other. I'm just saying that's that's 1212 01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:16,800 a bit of a red flag to me. 1213 01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:18,719 >> Were you saying we go to the three or 1214 01:14:18,719 --> 01:14:20,400 then three unrelated like we have in a 1215 01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,679 long-term rentals? No. Um I'm just 1216 01:14:23,679 --> 01:14:25,679 saying to me that's a bigger problem. 1217 01:14:25,679 --> 01:14:27,760 That's a bigger fish to fry than 1218 01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,520 short-term rentals because I hear about 1219 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,280 that continually. 1220 01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,440 >> And I know again that the neighborhood 1221 01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:35,199 team, it's just something that's 1222 01:14:35,199 --> 01:14:38,159 impossible for them to keep up with 1223 01:14:38,159 --> 01:14:40,960 and and so it's just kind of always out 1224 01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,840 there bubbling and brewing that we have 1225 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,760 these long-term renters and we don't 1226 01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,159 really know kind of the same concerns. 1227 01:14:48,159 --> 01:14:49,520 We don't know how many there are. We 1228 01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,360 don't know how they're related, if 1229 01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:53,199 they're related, 1230 01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:56,719 and and so I just would hate to 1231 01:14:56,719 --> 01:14:57,679 add to that. I 1232 01:14:57,679 --> 01:14:59,119 >> think that's one of my biggest worries 1233 01:14:59,119 --> 01:15:02,400 is that as we are trying to make 1234 01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,960 something short-term rentals, we are 1235 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:06,639 going to be messing with what is allowed 1236 01:15:06,639 --> 01:15:09,360 for long-term rentals. We all know that 1237 01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:11,679 that's a big 1238 01:15:11,679 --> 01:15:15,040 issue in the city right now. and the 1239 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:18,079 enforcement I BJ like shaking his head 1240 01:15:18,079 --> 01:15:19,840 you [laughter] know he's got thoughts on 1241 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,239 this because the enforcement arm that's 1242 01:15:22,239 --> 01:15:24,320 the most difficult part of this we can 1243 01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,159 make all the rules that we want and it's 1244 01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:27,760 not going to matter because people are 1245 01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:29,280 still going to do what people do which 1246 01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:31,199 is walk right past those rules and then 1247 01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:34,880 we put it on our amazing officers to try 1248 01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,840 and figure out how to enforce that. The 1249 01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,639 other side of that coin though to me is 1250 01:15:40,639 --> 01:15:43,679 it seems to me that the short-term 1251 01:15:43,679 --> 01:15:45,840 rentals play by the rules better than 1252 01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:50,079 the long-term rentals as far as the 1253 01:15:50,079 --> 01:15:52,480 >> occupied. They're there. They're on top 1254 01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:56,800 of it where short-term rentals I mean we 1255 01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:00,159 have a a home in our neighborhood. 1256 01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:02,239 >> I mean a long-term rental guy lives in 1257 01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:03,440 Vegas 1258 01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:06,480 >> and he doesn't know what happens there. 1259 01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:07,840 we have a better idea of what's 1260 01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:09,119 happening there than he does. 1261 01:16:09,119 --> 01:16:10,239 >> Yeah. And that's like 1262 01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:14,239 >> so I feel I feel like the I feel like 1263 01:16:14,239 --> 01:16:16,800 because of the requirements of Airbnb 1264 01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:18,960 and VRBO 1265 01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,079 and the fact that you have to if you're 1266 01:16:22,079 --> 01:16:23,280 going to if you're going to have 1267 01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:26,000 success, you have to hit a c certain 1268 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,199 level of professionalism 1269 01:16:29,199 --> 01:16:32,559 in that in those rentals that I feel 1270 01:16:32,559 --> 01:16:34,000 like it's it's a little bit of a 1271 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,880 different animal than a long-term rental 1272 01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,120 where, you know, they're there And 1273 01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:40,800 >> I don't even think we should be talking 1274 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:41,359 about them. 1275 01:16:41,359 --> 01:16:42,479 >> I know and I 1276 01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:43,200 >> different here. 1277 01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,559 >> They're they're to two totally different 1278 01:16:44,559 --> 01:16:45,040 things 1279 01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:49,760 >> that we would even consider a occupancy 1280 01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,080 right in regard. So I feel like we're 1281 01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:53,920 getting into the weeds here because the 1282 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:55,920 eight the whole topic I think that 1283 01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:00,639 Jake's trying to say is that 8 count can 1284 01:17:00,639 --> 01:17:03,439 be problem if we exceed the 8 count that 1285 01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:06,080 can be problematic from a federal uh 1286 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,800 litigation standard. 1287 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,639 And and my and and yes, we did go into 1288 01:17:10,639 --> 01:17:14,950 the we for a minute, but my point was 1289 01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:17,040 that was my question is where does this 1290 01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:17,280 take? 1291 01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:18,960 >> No, I understand what your what your 1292 01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:20,880 question is going to impact the other 1293 01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:21,840 things. We're not we're not talking 1294 01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,240 about long-term rental. 1295 01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:25,760 How what's the relationship of the 1296 01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:27,599 impact? I know Jen Jen had a comment. 1297 01:17:27,599 --> 01:17:30,000 Then I have a question. Well, I guess 1298 01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,000 just to tag along what Jeff and Quinn 1299 01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:33,840 were talking about, um, just the way 1300 01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,599 that we regulate STRs is a lot different 1301 01:17:35,599 --> 01:17:37,359 than how we would regulate a long-term 1302 01:17:37,359 --> 01:17:39,359 rental. So, you know, you with an STR, 1303 01:17:39,359 --> 01:17:41,200 you'd have inspections and parking 1304 01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:43,840 minimums and work maximums and permits 1305 01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:46,080 and so local contact and all of those 1306 01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:47,200 things. And we could suspend the 1307 01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,800 license, you know, where we couldn't 1308 01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:49,920 really do that with long-term. So, like 1309 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:50,880 I think Len was saying also, they're 1310 01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:52,479 just different animals that maybe don't 1311 01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:54,639 bear comparing. Um, but to that point, I 1312 01:17:54,639 --> 01:17:56,479 also agree with Quinn. think that the 1313 01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:58,719 onesize misfits-all. I I I think that's 1314 01:17:58,719 --> 01:18:00,319 a great fit either. I think that based 1315 01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:01,920 on occupancy, you know, like in your 1316 01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,240 example here, a 24 square foot 100 foot 1317 01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:06,399 home have the same occupancy, a 6,000 1318 01:18:06,399 --> 01:18:09,040 foot home essentially, you know, like I 1319 01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:10,559 don't love that. So I I would tend to 1320 01:18:10,559 --> 01:18:12,800 side with let's go with a simple easy 1321 01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:16,719 two perb move on see like just my input. 1322 01:18:16,719 --> 01:18:18,559 >> So is all of this as I think back on 1323 01:18:18,559 --> 01:18:20,319 your first side, this is about non-owner 1324 01:18:20,319 --> 01:18:22,080 occupied, right? Or can this be applied 1325 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:22,880 to owner occupied? 1326 01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:24,080 >> It could also be applied to owner 1327 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,719 occupied. Okay, thank you. 1328 01:18:26,719 --> 01:18:29,439 >> So, 1329 01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:31,359 whatever we apply to short-term rentals 1330 01:18:31,359 --> 01:18:33,920 though have to realize that it will be 1331 01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,319 applied to longterm, 1332 01:18:36,319 --> 01:18:38,240 >> not necessarily long term, 1333 01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,439 >> but other legally it could be challenged 1334 01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:42,559 in that way 1335 01:18:42,559 --> 01:18:44,479 >> does open up some arguments there. 1336 01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:45,760 Whether those arguments are going to be 1337 01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:47,599 valid or not, 1338 01:18:47,599 --> 01:18:49,439 >> I don't know. Um, 1339 01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:50,319 >> that makes me uncomfortable. 1340 01:18:50,319 --> 01:18:52,719 >> It does open potential lines for 1341 01:18:52,719 --> 01:18:54,800 argument. Sometimes you get up your six 1342 01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,359 7,000 foot homes and you don't 1343 01:18:57,359 --> 01:19:01,990 necessarily have more bedrooms, 1344 01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:03,280 » right? 1345 01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:05,120 >> Your homes with your really nicer 1346 01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,000 amenities. 1347 01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:10,000 So, so your square foot, what I'm trying 1348 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:11,760 to say there is I don't think square 1349 01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:13,359 footage is a good measure. I think that 1350 01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:15,439 misfits all. I think you've got to look 1351 01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,399 at bedrooms. Then we we are considering 1352 01:19:18,399 --> 01:19:21,599 the safety that that we're chief was 1353 01:19:21,599 --> 01:19:22,960 talking about. 1354 01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,280 Um, 1355 01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,000 so here's the balance. Bedrooms for me, 1356 01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,280 bedrooms and and the eight max. I'm very 1357 01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,920 concerned about the sober living issue 1358 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,399 because I've seen it in my area and I 1359 01:19:36,399 --> 01:19:37,920 guess maybe I live different place than 1360 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:40,319 you guys do, but it's in my area and 1361 01:19:40,319 --> 01:19:43,120 I've seen it. So I think we need to be 1362 01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:44,719 respectful of people who live in those 1363 01:19:44,719 --> 01:19:48,640 kinds of areas and recognize that it's 1364 01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:50,399 be difficult to maintain a certain 1365 01:19:50,399 --> 01:19:52,880 standard of a neighborhood if we get to 1366 01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:57,429 that that um 1367 01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:59,120 » Chris if I could impose and maybe ask 1368 01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:01,127 what your thoughts are. Yeah, 1369 01:20:01,127 --> 01:20:02,240 [clears throat] 1370 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,040 I think probably the bedroom 1371 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:09,120 uh would be more of my 1372 01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,520 limited per bedroom, whatever. 1373 01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:12,479 >> Say more than eight, 1374 01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,560 >> whatever that limit is. I I'm that would 1375 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,680 be my my enforcement would be bedroom. 1376 01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:18,880 I'm going to have to find out about 1377 01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:22,479 whatever's larger than 1378 01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:24,640 also there. I would also think that 1379 01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,640 there would need to be some maximum 1380 01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,640 whatever that is [clears throat] 1381 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:32,720 >> some maximum occupancy limit. Is that 1382 01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:33,520 what I'm understanding? 1383 01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,399 >> Maximum occupant limit but also number 1384 01:20:36,399 --> 01:20:38,640 of bedrooms how up to whatever the 1385 01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,520 maximum would be. Um that's where I'm 1386 01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:43,040 leaning. 1387 01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:46,560 >> I the concerns that I have is 1388 01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,880 um there's two sides to it. You have a 1389 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,800 family of 30 that's coming in for a 1390 01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:52,640 family reunion. They're all related. 1391 01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:54,080 that's a grandma and all of her all 1392 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:59,200 their grandkids and um 1393 01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:02,000 the issue with like group homes or sober 1394 01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:03,920 living they're living there for longer 1395 01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:07,359 than 3 to 5 days. So can you set uh you 1396 01:21:07,359 --> 01:21:10,640 can be there for up to 30 people for 1397 01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:12,880 that are all family related up to three 1398 01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,160 days more than that the maximum is 1399 01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:19,200 whatever that so that's just my thinking 1400 01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,399 outside the box but just saying I I have 1401 01:21:22,399 --> 01:21:24,319 empathy towards the family wanting to go 1402 01:21:24,319 --> 01:21:26,960 do a family reunion I also have empathy 1403 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,760 for u because I have that same group 1404 01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,960 home experience um the maximum was eight 1405 01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:36,800 and I went to the city council meeting 1406 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:42,389 15 years ago when we had that issue. 1407 01:21:42,399 --> 01:21:44,720 » Um, again, if I could just maybe just so 1408 01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:46,240 I I have a clear understanding where 1409 01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:47,680 everybody is. If I could have everybody 1410 01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,640 just again reate 1411 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:52,479 what their thoughts and where they may 1412 01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:54,240 feel comfortable with it. If I could 1413 01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:54,720 start with you. 1414 01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:56,880 >> So, I'm I right now I feel comfortable 1415 01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,240 with the two per room. 1416 01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,120 >> Um, with any any limitation or no 1417 01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:09,830 limitation? limitation and I and I 1418 01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,319 don't have 1419 01:22:12,319 --> 01:22:16,319 I guess so a larger home that has four 1420 01:22:16,319 --> 01:22:18,160 bedrooms and I appreciate Len what Len 1421 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:19,840 saying because some some of those homes 1422 01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:21,680 have a theater room and they have a you 1423 01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,680 know they have lots of other amenities 1424 01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,120 and things but um I like I think I feel 1425 01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:28,960 comfortable with 1426 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:34,870 two and then a a maximum 1427 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,359 Quint, 1428 01:22:37,359 --> 01:22:38,960 >> the choices we've looked at today, I 1429 01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,200 think uh the square footage one 1430 01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:42,560 resonates most with me. I think that's 1431 01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:45,040 the most customizable to the property. 1432 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,880 Um I might also be open to uh two per 1433 01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:52,880 bedroom. Um not comfortable with a limit 1434 01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:57,120 of a because I I I just think that that 1435 01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,120 uh doesn't fit a lot of our larger 1436 01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,840 properties. I ask a question about I 1437 01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:05,359 mean that and I'm not I'm just this is a 1438 01:23:05,359 --> 01:23:07,840 legitimate question. How many groups of 1439 01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:09,920 eight people more than eight people 1440 01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,359 together to stay together 1441 01:23:13,359 --> 01:23:17,590 um in a facility? 1442 01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:18,880 I don't know. I don't know the answer to 1443 01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,319 that and I don't know that there is an 1444 01:23:20,319 --> 01:23:22,880 answer to that. But I did I think it's a 1445 01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:24,800 >> I've been part of family reunions where 1446 01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:25,840 we've rented an air 1447 01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:27,520 >> but family reunions are different, 1448 01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:28,720 right? 1449 01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:30,479 I I'm not a fan of discriminating 1450 01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:33,439 between family and non-family 1451 01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:35,520 the enforcement issue. 1452 01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,439 >> So I I think that's just really hard to 1453 01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:38,640 do. So I 1454 01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:39,359 >> Well, that's a good point. 1455 01:23:39,359 --> 01:23:41,680 >> I I I I've stayed in a I mean the best 1456 01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:43,520 family reunions I've ever been to were 1457 01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,160 in an Airbnb that hosted 30 people. I 1458 01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,439 mean it was it was magical. So 1459 01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,080 >> all right. Was that for a family? 1460 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,000 >> Was that Was that a family reunion? 1461 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:54,880 Family gathering? 1462 01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:56,880 >> Family reunion. And that is again why 1463 01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:58,880 we've we've we have talked about the 1464 01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,720 overlapping of of having the single 1465 01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:03,120 family as an option which would increase 1466 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,080 that occupancy or a single family 1467 01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:07,760 provision. But yes, does it create 1468 01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,479 enforcement issues? It does. 1469 01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:12,479 Um and then when you said something of 1470 01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:13,680 the options you've looked at today, is 1471 01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:14,800 there something else that's out there 1472 01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:16,160 that you're thinking that might be a 1473 01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,560 better solution 1474 01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,840 u specifically on occupancy or picture? 1475 01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:25,359 Well, I I think if if I was to design 1476 01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:29,840 one right now, I would say um 1477 01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:31,359 uh 1478 01:24:31,359 --> 01:24:36,160 that two people per bedroom, right? Um 1479 01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,479 up to four up to four bedrooms or 1480 01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:41,520 something like that. And then uh if the 1481 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,439 property is is a much larger property, 1482 01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:44,800 then you could have a square footage 1483 01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:46,560 thing that kicks in or additional 1484 01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,120 bedroom thing that kicks in. I would be 1485 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,080 comfortable with that. 1486 01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:53,600 Um, 1487 01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,160 one thing to to understand again is and 1488 01:24:56,160 --> 01:25:01,280 I um I'll let everybody speak and then I I want to clarify something. Janet, 1489 01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:03,120 >> um, I would support either the options 1490 01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:04,399 Quinn suggested. I would also support 1491 01:25:04,399 --> 01:25:05,600 two per bedroom. And I think an 1492 01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:06,800 important thing to point out here too is 1493 01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:09,280 it would be limited by parking capacity. 1494 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,280 So you have, you know, two per bedroom 1495 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:12,720 and then whatever the max parking 1496 01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:13,920 capacity is, which will be a limiting 1497 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,640 factor. 1498 01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:20,080 >> Great. And that's my parking would be 1499 01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,359 definitely have to be the back. 1500 01:25:23,359 --> 01:25:24,720 >> We might not have enough parking to have 1501 01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:25,439 two per bedroom. 1502 01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:26,479 >> Yes, that's right. 1503 01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:27,600 >> And I have the roads, but you don't have 1504 01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:28,080 the park. 1505 01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:29,120 >> But then you're not going to have like 1506 01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:31,040 30 people when you only have two spots. 1507 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:32,240 So I think that's just an 1508 01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:34,160 >> a bus. I'm not comfortable with any 1509 01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:36,240 ordinance that spills parking into the 1510 01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:36,720 street. 1511 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:38,240 >> That's a question right there. Chris 1512 01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:40,720 just said unless they're bringing a bus 1513 01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:42,720 and we saw a bus at the BYU I have a 1514 01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:44,640 picture on my phone of the bus at the 1515 01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,960 BYU house of the volleyball team. 1516 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,120 >> Well, I say that's just not a a oneoff 1517 01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:50,720 event either. We've seen that in other 1518 01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:51,200 properties. 1519 01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:53,680 >> One at the Aspen house, too. There's 1520 01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:57,439 house. Yeah. The goat house 1521 01:25:57,439 --> 01:25:59,120 names for them. 1522 01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:01,120 >> Len, is there anything um that you want 1523 01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,120 to add beyond your bedrooms? The 1524 01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:10,630 bedrooms in a max eight. Um, 1525 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:15,040 yeah. So, documented bedrooms, legal 1526 01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:17,840 safety bedrooms, you know, um, square 1527 01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,319 footage. I like that idea where we are 1528 01:26:20,319 --> 01:26:22,080 defining what a bedroom is, that it has 1529 01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:23,840 a window. 1530 01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:26,160 um 1531 01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,720 >> that yeah I just can't get past the 1532 01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:30,880 eight because I've seen that and that 1533 01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:34,000 just you know we do it and we have zero 1534 01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,640 control then are subject to federal 1535 01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,399 standards I hope everybody understands 1536 01:26:38,399 --> 01:26:40,640 that then are subject to federal 1537 01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:42,000 standards that happened in my brother's 1538 01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,760 neighborhood I mean you know it's going 1539 01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:48,640 to be um and I mean I know when we've 1540 01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,520 had the one home 1541 01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:53,359 my second year on the council Jeff I 1542 01:26:53,359 --> 01:26:54,720 here there where they had the autism 1543 01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:58,399 home over on Center Street, Center 1544 01:26:58,399 --> 01:27:00,880 Street, and it was totally legal. 1545 01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:02,880 Everything was great and no more than 1546 01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:05,600 eight and the emails we got and the push 1547 01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:08,800 back we got and had zero control over 1548 01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,240 that as a federal standards. Um, but the 1549 01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:17,040 neighbors were very concerned have um a 1550 01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:18,560 neighbor 1551 01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:20,479 have a commercial enterprise in their 1552 01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:23,840 neighborhood. So I I I would love to be 1553 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,880 compassionate here. I would love to be, 1554 01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,080 you know, I would love to have provide 1555 01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,840 um family union spots for families in 1556 01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,720 Oram, but I have to really go with 1557 01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,880 protecting our neighborhoods, protecting 1558 01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:41,280 our residents who bought homes in areas, 1559 01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:46,240 anticipating residential use, and um 1560 01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:47,680 I don't know, this is a new thing, 1561 01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:50,000 right? When I grew up, we rented a hotel 1562 01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,080 room and we slept in sleeping bags on 1563 01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:55,680 the floor. Seven kids, 1564 01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:58,880 >> not rich. We were very poor family. So, 1565 01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:00,960 we made it work, you know, and it was 1566 01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:02,800 fun. And when I traveled with friends 1567 01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,040 before we had kids, we would each get a 1568 01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:06,640 hotel room. We would go in somebody's 1569 01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,399 room and play cards. And then when it 1570 01:28:08,399 --> 01:28:10,000 was time to go to sleep, we would go to 1571 01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,880 our hotel rooms. It worked great. You 1572 01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:14,960 know, when I went on family reunions, 1573 01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:15,359 that's 1574 01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:18,240 >> stay with with family members. um their 1575 01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,359 homes or stay in hotels, you know, it's 1576 01:28:21,359 --> 01:28:22,880 worked for years and years and years. 1577 01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:26,160 This is a new thing. I I just feel like 1578 01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:27,920 I just have such while I really 1579 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:30,319 appreciate that experience and that 1580 01:28:30,319 --> 01:28:32,640 opportunity, I don't see a need to 1581 01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:36,399 impose upon neighborhoods and the 1582 01:28:36,399 --> 01:28:38,880 privacy and sanctity of people who 1583 01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:41,600 that's their biggest investment in their 1584 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:44,960 life is their home and the connections 1585 01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:46,479 that [clears throat] they are making 1586 01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:48,000 with their neighbors are very very 1587 01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:50,800 important. So that's kind of where I am. 1588 01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:53,439 I I'm a bad person here and I'm sounding 1589 01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:54,720 like I am because I know I got these 1590 01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:56,319 people sitting behind me, right? And I 1591 01:28:56,319 --> 01:28:59,520 get it. But I just have to say this is 1592 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,720 what I'm I'm I'm struggling with, but I 1593 01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:04,399 have to come down on principle and 1594 01:29:04,399 --> 01:29:06,160 safety and neighborhood protections and 1595 01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:09,840 residents and, you know, legal legal 1596 01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:12,160 exposure, all of that. 1597 01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:13,040 >> Crystal, 1598 01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:17,200 >> I'm more on the numerical cap. unless 1599 01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:19,600 the courts 1600 01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,240 change incidents 1601 01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:26,319 on the fair housing type things that 1602 01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:27,840 that's a can of warns I that I'm not 1603 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:30,800 willing to open up in our city. 1604 01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:33,439 >> Um mayor 1605 01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:37,520 >> oh you just let I'm here making notes. 1606 01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:40,160 Uh, I have a couple questions before I 1607 01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:42,399 and you might not know the answer before 1608 01:29:42,399 --> 01:29:45,600 I I say what I'm at right now. Where did 1609 01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:48,000 the number eight come from? 1610 01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:50,720 >> So number eight, and I don't have all of 1611 01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,200 the the history here. Steve um probably 1612 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:54,960 worked on that original sober living 1613 01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:57,760 facility ordinance um long before I 1614 01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,080 graduated from law school. Um but 1615 01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:05,190 >> not to put you on the spot. 1616 01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:06,399 » Do you know what? You know what's 1617 01:30:06,399 --> 01:30:07,840 horrible is I was at Ten [laughter] 1618 01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,319 Council at the time and I'm like, Steve, 1619 01:30:10,319 --> 01:30:12,479 why did we 1620 01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:14,160 >> But I I believe and again, correct me 1621 01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:16,880 where I'm wrong, Steve. I believe I can 1622 01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:19,680 remember that long. 1623 01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:22,160 >> I can't I just admitted I can't remember 1624 01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:23,680 that long ago. 1625 01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:25,680 where I believe is there was there was 1626 01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:27,280 conversations, there were studies, there 1627 01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:29,600 were concerns about what the therapeutic 1628 01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,840 level, where be benefits and ORM decided 1629 01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:36,319 that eight was going to be that magic 1630 01:30:36,319 --> 01:30:38,720 number based on therapeutic value of a 1631 01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:39,840 group home 1632 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,160 >> and a sober living facility. 1633 01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:43,520 >> That's where that number came from. 1634 01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:44,399 Steve, if 1635 01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:46,720 >> one other thing I'd add to to that is uh 1636 01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:48,560 some of the thought not just in ORM but 1637 01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:50,479 throughout the country dealing with 1638 01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:52,240 we're talking about residential group 1639 01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:53,520 homes. So, group homes that are in 1640 01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,680 residential neighborhoods, typically in 1641 01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:57,040 single family homes. We're not talking 1642 01:30:57,040 --> 01:30:58,800 about group homes that are in, you know, 1643 01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:00,800 we have some commercial, more commercial 1644 01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,840 like institutional type facilities. 1645 01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:06,479 >> And uh as Jake mentioned, eight is a 1646 01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:08,080 standard that's been therapeutically 1647 01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:09,920 effective, financially viable, but it's 1648 01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:12,880 also one that's been commonly uh 1649 01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,600 determined that a number that fits into 1650 01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:17,840 a residential neighborhood without 1651 01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:19,200 changing the character of the 1652 01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:20,960 neighborhood. There's there's been a 1653 01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:25,040 concern. There is a historical because 1654 01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:27,040 >> when you start getting larger and larger 1655 01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,120 numbers of residents in a group home, 1656 01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:30,960 you also have more staff members. You 1657 01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:33,520 also have more services being provided. 1658 01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:36,000 It starts to look more less like a 1659 01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:37,920 residential facility and more like an 1660 01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:39,520 institutional facility. 1661 01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:41,200 >> So that's where that eight number kind 1662 01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:43,439 of for the eight for group homes kind of 1663 01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:44,000 comes from. 1664 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:46,080 >> Good job. Okay. Thank you. Even though 1665 01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:47,359 you're that sold. 1666 01:31:47,359 --> 01:31:51,920 >> Not bad. Not bad. And so so does this is a kind of a correlary question. 1667 01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,040 Do do the state regulations for group 1668 01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:57,760 homes and sober living facilities. Do 1669 01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:01,040 they have a square footage requirement? 1670 01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:03,920 >> I'm wondering I believe the state does 1671 01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:06,800 have requirements for group homes. Uh 1672 01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:08,080 square footage requirements. I don't 1673 01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,160 remember what those are. They're fairly 1674 01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:11,920 I think they're fairly lenient to be 1675 01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:13,120 honest with you. 1676 01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:13,439 >> Okay. 1677 01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:15,040 >> They're like 80 1678 01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:15,439 >> Yeah, 1679 01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:16,399 >> 80 square feet. 1680 01:32:16,399 --> 01:32:18,640 pretty lenient. So, it's 1681 01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:22,720 >> Okay. 1682 01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:25,520 Well, all right. So, 1683 01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,720 >> I like the bedrooms 1684 01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:31,359 owner occupied only. 1685 01:32:31,359 --> 01:32:32,800 That's something that I didn't I think 1686 01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:33,840 that 1687 01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:35,280 >> I I don't but that was part of the 1688 01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:36,880 discussion. But I 1689 01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:38,479 >> occupancy, but you're bringing up the 1690 01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:39,760 previous, but thank you for help. 1691 01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:42,000 >> That's that's I don't I don't envision 1692 01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:43,920 this being something in a non-owner 1693 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:45,840 occupied 1694 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:49,680 um situation. I'm struggling. I I might 1695 01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,920 be able to go feel like we could raise 1696 01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:55,439 the cap a tiny bit, a couple maybe, but 1697 01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:57,520 again, I don't I don't know. I'm a 1698 01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:01,359 little distant here that the it's 80. 1699 01:33:01,359 --> 01:33:04,240 But I I do I do like the bedroom. So, 1700 01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:06,000 mayor, if I can clarify that the number 1701 01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:07,439 that the state that's just for the 1702 01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,600 purposes of their licensing, that's not 1703 01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:10,720 something that we have to follow. 1704 01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,560 >> Oh, I know. I would what I was what I 1705 01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:14,720 was thinking was what if sober living 1706 01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:16,720 homes required, 1707 01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:18,560 you know, a higher number of square feet 1708 01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,280 that we could that would make it to 1709 01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:23,840 where 1710 01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,160 I'm not going to say it, but it would 1711 01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:28,319 change probably change the situation. 1712 01:33:28,319 --> 01:33:31,510 So, 1713 01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,680 uh, 1714 01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:35,040 that's I'm struggling with the some of 1715 01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:36,800 the silver living and the the group 1716 01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:40,720 homes. I have I have no I I want to have 1717 01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:42,720 some flexibility because I do believe 1718 01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,840 that one size miss all, but I'm I'm 1719 01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:47,760 struggling with how to how to deal with 1720 01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:49,600 the 1721 01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:53,040 universable universal applicability 1722 01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:55,920 of that. 1723 01:33:55,920 --> 01:34:01,120 So Jake, maybe one clarification. 1724 01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:04,240 We're talking about short-term rentals 1725 01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:07,280 in residentially zoned areas, right? 1726 01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,280 This would not preclude the council from 1727 01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:14,240 a commercial zone. 1728 01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:19,600 uh basically a facility that that had 1729 01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:22,319 different occupancy levels that that did 1730 01:34:22,319 --> 01:34:24,800 more like 1731 01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:27,680 uh hospitality but had maybe a 1732 01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:31,520 residential feel in the design and look 1733 01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:32,960 right now what we're talking about 1734 01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:36,080 solely is residential zones. If if in a 1735 01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:37,680 future 1736 01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,160 um project you wanted to look at 1737 01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:41,840 allowing them in a commercial zone or 1738 01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:44,560 creating a hospitality zone uh where 1739 01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:46,160 we'd have different standards, we could 1740 01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:49,920 absolutely have that conversation in a 1741 01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:51,600 and and put standards that are different 1742 01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:53,760 and separate and distinct from those 1743 01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:55,439 that would be occurring in a residential 1744 01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:57,359 zone. 1745 01:34:57,359 --> 01:34:59,280 Um, something else I want to also 1746 01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,680 clarify is, you know, as we talk about 1747 01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:05,280 bedrooms, um, I do want to just make 1748 01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:06,960 sure the council is going into this with 1749 01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:09,920 eyes wide open is if you had a, you 1750 01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:12,399 know, a 6,000 foot home and you had a 1751 01:35:12,399 --> 01:35:14,880 large basement and that basement was a a 1752 01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,280 wider open space, you may have 1753 01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:20,960 applicants coming in to then refurbish 1754 01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:24,080 or um, change the footprint within the 1755 01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,640 home to add bedrooms to increase that 1756 01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:28,319 occupancy. I just want to make sure that 1757 01:35:28,319 --> 01:35:29,760 you're going into with a bedroom 1758 01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:32,960 calculation understanding that that may 1759 01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:35,359 is used to increase occupancy with that 1760 01:35:35,359 --> 01:35:39,760 in that internal structure of the home. 1761 01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,240 Um, next 1762 01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:44,240 I'm running out of time unfortunately. 1763 01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:45,760 >> Clarify. I'm not I don't want to do the 1764 01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:51,910 bedrooms. I'm eight only. 1765 01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:53,680 Um the next thing I want to speak about 1766 01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:57,920 is is parking and and I understand again 1767 01:35:57,920 --> 01:35:59,280 that this is one of those areas where 1768 01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,880 there may not be a lot of uh consensus 1769 01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,319 but we may be close. The really is one I 1770 01:36:06,319 --> 01:36:08,319 think the one where there is consensus 1771 01:36:08,319 --> 01:36:11,280 from the group is we would require that 1772 01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:14,000 tenants of short-term rentals park off 1773 01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,640 street. They are not using on street 1774 01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:19,520 spots to park and to facilitate the 1775 01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:22,080 rental, the short-term rental. 1776 01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:23,680 The next area I'd like to talk about 1777 01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:26,640 though is as we as we have them submit a 1778 01:36:26,640 --> 01:36:29,920 parking plan, what would count as 1779 01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:34,080 potential parking spots, tandem parking 1780 01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:37,520 or or not? Is that is that something 1781 01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:39,280 that the council would want to restrict? 1782 01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:41,680 And by that I mean um as you can see 1783 01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:44,319 from the example, if you have two spots 1784 01:36:44,319 --> 01:36:46,479 but they're front and back, does that 1785 01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:48,319 count as two spots or does that count as 1786 01:36:48,319 --> 01:36:50,640 one spot or do you want to go based on 1787 01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:53,600 width? So a spot and a spot and a spot 1788 01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:57,120 as you go across horizontally. 1789 01:36:57,120 --> 01:36:59,920 Are there any strong feelings one way or 1790 01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:01,120 the other? 1791 01:37:01,120 --> 01:37:02,960 >> I love the idea that if they can fit it 1792 01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:04,479 in the footprint of their driveway and 1793 01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:06,960 their garage, then it's fine. as long as 1794 01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:08,000 it's not spilling over onto the 1795 01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:10,240 sidewalk, whatever, they can jenga 1796 01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:11,439 however they want to and it's up to the 1797 01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:13,200 STR owner to man manage that. And if 1798 01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:14,720 they don't, then they lose a license. 1799 01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:18,240 Um, but I think that's fair. 1800 01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:20,080 I lived in a place that had tandem 1801 01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:21,600 parking. My husband and I had to park 1802 01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:25,439 behind each other and we did not the 1803 01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:29,280 street cuz it, you know, honey, come 1804 01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:32,000 move your car so I can back out is 1805 01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,720 always a problem. And I think that's the 1806 01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:36,640 nature of short-term rental tenants is 1807 01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:38,479 they're coming and going a lot of times 1808 01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:40,479 and 1809 01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:42,720 they're going to be on the street. And 1810 01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:44,800 how will you know if that's them? Once 1811 01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:46,240 again, we're putting the onus on our 1812 01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:48,000 residents 1813 01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:53,030 to then report 1814 01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:56,560 » this question, but not quite on this. 1815 01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:59,040 How 1816 01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:03,920 realistic is it to have a parking 1817 01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:05,760 complaint 1818 01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:08,479 result in an official strike if we went 1819 01:38:08,479 --> 01:38:10,080 with a three strike rule or whatever it 1820 01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:11,920 is and having their license taken away? 1821 01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:16,080 Like is that a hard thing to accomplish 1822 01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:19,120 once we have an ordinance or is that 1823 01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:20,720 >> I think again it depends on the 1824 01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:24,080 circumstances, right? I mean, if we have 1825 01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:25,680 as what we've as we've talked to 1826 01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:27,600 different neighbors of STRs that have 1827 01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:30,080 made complaints, the the refrain always 1828 01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:33,520 is if there is an active nuisance, 1829 01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:36,319 please call it in while it's active. 1830 01:38:36,319 --> 01:38:38,479 if it's during the 8 1831 01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:40,640 to 5 hours, we can have an NIT team 1832 01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:44,479 member go out there and and respond, do 1833 01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:47,200 a knock on the STR, identify what that 1834 01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:49,680 vehicle is. We could run the license 1835 01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:51,200 plate. we could understand that that 1836 01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:52,800 doesn't belong to any of the neighboring 1837 01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:55,359 homes. Uh you collect a witness 1838 01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:56,720 statement from the neighbor saying it's 1839 01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,920 not one of our vehicles. Um you could 1840 01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:03,280 have an off a uniformed officer offsite 1841 01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:06,640 of hours do the same thing. Um again we 1842 01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:08,960 would then go through the ALJ. Some of 1843 01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:10,560 them are really obvious. I mean again 1844 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:12,160 when we've had a school bus park in a 1845 01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:13,439 neighborhood and they parked and they 1846 01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:15,680 think up that parking that's really 1847 01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:18,080 obvious. Other times it's going to be a 1848 01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:20,560 little bit less obvious. So again, I'm 1849 01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:22,000 going to give you the attorney answer of 1850 01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:23,439 it really just depends on the 1851 01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:24,479 circumstances. 1852 01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:26,640 >> Are pictures submitted by neighbors 1853 01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:28,479 considered 1854 01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:30,800 >> evidence. So they doesn't have to be 1855 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,040 corroborated by an officer coming out 1856 01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:36,160 there and looking at it, but sure would 1857 01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:36,800 suffice. 1858 01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:39,040 >> Again, it comes down to I mean, part of 1859 01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:40,479 it is when neighbors say, "I don't want 1860 01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:42,800 to necessarily be involved." Well, the 1861 01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:44,800 way to to not have the neighborhood 1862 01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:47,120 neighbor be involved is we have the NIT 1863 01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:50,319 officer go out collect the photo, but 1864 01:39:50,319 --> 01:39:51,600 Aaron 1865 01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:53,280 >> Yeah, you've prosecuted these. 1866 01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:55,439 >> Yeah. So, I I often do the enforcement 1867 01:39:55,439 --> 01:39:57,680 on this and often receive photos from 1868 01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:00,399 neighbors and photos are helpful, but 1869 01:40:00,399 --> 01:40:02,240 they're not always sufficient. And what 1870 01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:04,720 I mean by that is there can be a photo 1871 01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:06,399 of a vehicle out in front of that STR, 1872 01:40:06,399 --> 01:40:08,800 but how do we know that that vehicle 1873 01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:10,800 belongs to the tenant of that STR as 1874 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,840 opposed to someone who's visiting 1875 01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:15,439 a neighbor across the street or 1876 01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:16,399 something, right? 1877 01:40:16,399 --> 01:40:19,200 >> And so photos are good. If there's video 1878 01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:21,680 showing them, park it and go inside the 1879 01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:25,680 STR, that's better, right? 1880 01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:28,880 It depends. So I have So I don't like 1881 01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,280 the tandem. Back to the parking, but if 1882 01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,399 someone had a side and they could do 1883 01:40:34,399 --> 01:40:37,359 angle to get people to so then you could 1884 01:40:37,359 --> 01:40:39,280 have someone in the driveway have a 1885 01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,680 problem with that. No, if they're all 1886 01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:45,760 off street and there's no tandem to 1887 01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:49,200 cars. Um, but to that point, I will tell 1888 01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:52,880 you I had I have had residents call me 1889 01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:54,800 and say they have called our dispatch 1890 01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:57,439 trying to get someone to go out and 1891 01:40:57,439 --> 01:40:59,520 dispatch that the police are busy doing 1892 01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,160 other things, important things, right? 1893 01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,960 So, I don't know 1894 01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:07,359 um if we would then consider just 1895 01:41:07,359 --> 01:41:10,399 hiring, you know, have code enforcement 1896 01:41:10,399 --> 01:41:13,280 officers that are available 247 to make 1897 01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:14,640 sure that we always had someone 1898 01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:18,000 available to go out and to, you know, 1899 01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,760 get the evidence that we needed to so we 1900 01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:25,280 can honor the the the you know, the call 1901 01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:26,640 from the resident 1902 01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:28,399 >> and and I understand the situation 1903 01:41:28,399 --> 01:41:30,080 you're talking about because I believe 1904 01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:32,880 that resident also then texted me and at 1905 01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:35,840 about 11:45 at night I called the watch 1906 01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:37,439 commander and had them send out a 1907 01:41:37,439 --> 01:41:39,680 uniform officer. Uh we've done training 1908 01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:41,280 memos. We've worked through the dispatch 1909 01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:46,000 on that. So um again we've again we 1910 01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:47,680 don't necessarily want to use uniformed 1911 01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:50,800 officers to enforce a civil mechanism. 1912 01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:53,280 So the idea is again officer would go 1913 01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:55,200 out collect the initial information and 1914 01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:58,800 then have referred over to NIT to do the 1915 01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:00,479 followup. And that's kind of the thing 1916 01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:02,399 is I really don't want to put our 1917 01:42:02,399 --> 01:42:05,520 officers they're if they're busy they're 1918 01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:08,800 busy doing other things. This is so low 1919 01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:11,760 on the duties of a police officer to 1920 01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:16,880 protect our citizens, right? Um, so to 1921 01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:21,439 me the answer is we have to somehow um 1922 01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:24,000 have code enforcement so you're not 1923 01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:26,960 getting texts at 11:45 at night but or 1924 01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:28,319 you know how are we going to handle that 1925 01:42:28,319 --> 01:42:30,640 when that happens because that is a 1926 01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:32,800 concern and it's very hard for our 1927 01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:35,120 residents to 1928 01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:39,120 >> I just need to for you y'all to talk me 1929 01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:41,520 through how how would this work with 1930 01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:44,000 owner occupied because in the tan and 1931 01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:46,319 parking might have a garage and then 1932 01:42:46,319 --> 01:42:48,000 let's say you have three people living 1933 01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:52,319 upstairs, the owner and a spouse and kid 1934 01:42:52,319 --> 01:42:56,640 and then your your um separate STR might 1935 01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:59,520 be two bedrooms. So they would have to 1936 01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:02,160 have we would have to have the separate 1937 01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,479 so within this footprint of garage and 1938 01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:06,880 driveway you would have to have the 1939 01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:10,399 parking that would be for them right and 1940 01:43:10,399 --> 01:43:13,040 then in this in a two-bedroom additional 1941 01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:17,040 two off streetet parking spaces 1942 01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:18,960 I'm trying to 1943 01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:19,920 >> that's what it sounds like 1944 01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:22,319 >> figure figure this out. Yeah, 1945 01:43:22,319 --> 01:43:25,520 >> it does create, you know, I mean either 1946 01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:26,880 I don't necessarily want to say this in 1947 01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:28,720 a public meeting, but it could be game 1948 01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:32,240 too by a owner occupied. The owner could 1949 01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:35,760 then park in the street and the um 1950 01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:37,920 short-term renter parks in the driveway. 1951 01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:39,280 >> Yeah, it can be gamed. 1952 01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:40,800 >> The owner can park in the street anyway. 1953 01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:41,920 >> Correct. And that's why we wouldn't 1954 01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,560 control it. We can't control that. So 1955 01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:47,760 the again the idea is you'd want to put 1956 01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:49,043 some sort of effective way 1957 01:43:49,043 --> 01:43:51,840 [clears throat] to try to incentivize 1958 01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,399 and force that parking to come off the 1959 01:43:54,399 --> 01:43:57,920 street. So is there any strong feelings 1960 01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:00,240 about tandem parking or not? I guess it 1961 01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:01,520 would be the question I pose to the 1962 01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:02,880 group. 1963 01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:04,640 >> My my perspective is if it's off the 1964 01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:08,319 street I'm okay. 1965 01:44:08,319 --> 01:44:09,600 >> That's where I'm at as well. if it's 1966 01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:11,760 garage or driveway if it's off the 1967 01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:12,960 street or if they create a little 1968 01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:14,720 parking 1969 01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:19,200 off to the side. Um I'm okay with that. 1970 01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:20,960 >> I'm the same. 1971 01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:23,279 >> Don't like tandem. 1972 01:44:23,279 --> 01:44:25,840 >> I don't have strong opinion. 1973 01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:27,680 >> Okay. 1974 01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:28,240 >> What Chris? 1975 01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:30,160 >> Well, I apologize. Same as me. 1976 01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:31,760 >> Tandem's okay as long as it's out of the 1977 01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:33,520 way and it's off the street. So, same 1978 01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:35,600 off the street. 1979 01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:37,680 >> Oh, my brain. It just it left my brain 1980 01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:39,600 again. Okay. So, we're talking we talked 1981 01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:41,840 about last week that we're not talking 1982 01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:45,040 about room sharing. 1983 01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,760 Correct. Are we talking about a separate 1984 01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,000 STR? Because [clears throat] then 1985 01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:51,279 because I'm like, okay, if we're going 1986 01:44:51,279 --> 01:44:53,279 to do share rooms, then we do have to do 1987 01:44:53,279 --> 01:44:55,120 the number of bedrooms including the 1988 01:44:55,120 --> 01:44:57,760 primary bedroom of the owner and that 1989 01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:00,800 because I I did not like it. I I decided 1990 01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:05,120 it's not for me. But one time I stay in Airbnb where I'm just one of the 1991 01:45:05,120 --> 01:45:08,479 fam and they had, you know, I could go 1992 01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:10,000 use the kitchen and they had their 1993 01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:12,000 master bedroom and the sister lived 1994 01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:14,319 there and they rented out a couple of 1995 01:45:14,319 --> 01:45:17,600 rooms and it wasn't was my cup of tea, 1996 01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:20,240 but how would you So we decided last 1997 01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:23,920 week I thought that that wasn't that was more of a boarding house kind 1998 01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:25,680 of situation and that was not something 1999 01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:27,520 that we were I just want [snorts] to 2000 01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:28,960 make sure that I have an understanding 2001 01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:30,880 that that was what we the conclusion we 2002 01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:31,680 came too. 2003 01:45:31,680 --> 01:45:34,319 >> So, mayor, that is a natural lead in to 2004 01:45:34,319 --> 01:45:36,000 the next slide. 2005 01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:36,800 >> Um, 2006 01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:38,000 >> great segue. 2007 01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,640 >> Oh, that [laughter] but your but to your 2008 01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:42,240 >> You know what? Our time's about up, but 2009 01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:44,000 do you mind if we keep going a bit more? 2010 01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:44,319 >> Y. 2011 01:45:44,319 --> 01:45:46,960 >> Are you Do you need a break or anything? 2012 01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:49,040 Don't worry, we'll get to We know we've 2013 01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:51,760 got Brandon and Tagert and thing. We've 2014 01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:55,279 Hang in there with us, friends. 2015 01:45:55,279 --> 01:45:57,920 So, um, mayor, we've we've heard the 2016 01:45:57,920 --> 01:45:59,200 concerns and and just what you 2017 01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:02,000 articulated is, do you want to engage in 2018 01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:05,200 room sharing where, um, an individual 2019 01:46:05,200 --> 01:46:08,000 just rents a room within the the 2020 01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,600 residential home itself on Airbnb or 2021 01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:13,200 VRBO? 2022 01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:16,080 Um, or if you want it more formalized 2023 01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:19,200 where this ends up being a separate 2024 01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:21,600 willing 2025 01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:25,359 basement, a apartment over the garage, 2026 01:46:25,359 --> 01:46:29,040 um, some type of designated segregated 2027 01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:30,880 space within the home or the footprint 2028 01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:34,960 of the home that is rented as though it 2029 01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:37,600 were an accessory apartment or an ADU, 2030 01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:39,200 but on a [snorts] short-term rental 2031 01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:41,680 basis. If you were to do that more 2032 01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:43,359 formalized process, what we would 2033 01:46:43,359 --> 01:46:46,640 recommend is that we have an accessory 2034 01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,680 apartment permit be required as part of 2035 01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:53,279 doing the short-term rental. 2036 01:46:53,279 --> 01:46:54,960 What are the thoughts and concerns from 2037 01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:58,560 the council as to that process? 2038 01:46:58,560 --> 01:46:59,840 I'm going to start with Chris on this 2039 01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:01,520 time since I've been picking on Jeff. 2040 01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:03,920 >> No, no concern. I I like the idea that 2041 01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,240 to eliminate the boarding house, I 2042 01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:09,040 prefer it to have some form of accessory 2043 01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:11,120 so that they're separate and distinct, 2044 01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:14,080 and when you come as a short-term rental 2045 01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:17,040 user, you have a defined space that's 2046 01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:19,520 yours for that 2047 01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:21,200 permitted time. 2048 01:47:21,200 --> 01:47:23,520 >> I like having an [clears throat] 2049 01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:25,760 accessory dwelling 2050 01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:28,319 as well. Um, one of the concerns I've 2051 01:47:28,319 --> 01:47:31,359 heard from some people who have those is 2052 01:47:31,359 --> 01:47:32,960 that 2053 01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:35,520 am I going to have to every time I I 2054 01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:36,640 have some people who have accessory 2055 01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:39,990 dwelling 2056 01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:41,840 apartment type things um that they 2057 01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:43,200 sometimes short-term rental and 2058 01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:46,160 sometimes don't like do I have to re get 2059 01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:48,479 that every time? And I'm in my head it's 2060 01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:51,200 you know you have the accessory dwelling 2061 01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:52,720 one and then if you want a short-term 2062 01:47:52,720 --> 01:47:54,080 rental it then you'd have to have that 2063 01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:57,279 permit as well and that's you can come 2064 01:47:57,279 --> 01:47:59,439 and go with that as needed upon 2065 01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:02,319 availability or whatever we decide. Is 2066 01:48:02,319 --> 01:48:03,279 that 2067 01:48:03,279 --> 01:48:05,200 >> correct? There would be a there would be 2068 01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:07,120 in essence a duplicate layer here. First 2069 01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:10,160 is you attain you you obtain your ADU or 2070 01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:11,760 accessory apartment permit 2071 01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:12,800 >> and then if you want to 2072 01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:14,080 >> if you want a short-term rental you 2073 01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:16,720 obtain your short-term rental license. 2074 01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:20,560 And I think we didn't we um Jeff tried 2075 01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:23,840 to take they only have to get that once. 2076 01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:26,720 They don't have to get a license every 2077 01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:28,560 year with an ADU, right? They just have 2078 01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:29,680 to certify once. 2079 01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:30,560 >> You get the ADU. 2080 01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:31,520 >> We're not double. 2081 01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:35,600 >> Yeah. Once you annually renew renew. 2082 01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:38,479 >> So it is. 2083 01:48:38,479 --> 01:48:40,880 >> Yeah. Definitely want a separate place. 2084 01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:43,200 I think there's more protection for 2085 01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:45,120 there and 2086 01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:46,720 um better enforcement, easier 2087 01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:48,560 enforcement. 2088 01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:50,240 Um 2089 01:48:50,240 --> 01:48:53,439 yeah, helps the standard of 2090 01:48:53,439 --> 01:48:56,080 Airbnb or 2091 01:48:56,080 --> 01:48:57,920 offer. 2092 01:48:57,920 --> 01:48:58,560 >> Yeah, 2093 01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:00,160 >> Jen, 2094 01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:01,920 >> I like the idea that there's separate 2095 01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:03,760 spaces to live in, but whether that's 2096 01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,120 the owners live in the basement and 2097 01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:06,800 they're in the top floor or vice versa 2098 01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:08,479 or whatever combination that is, I don't 2099 01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:09,680 have strong feelings about that. But I 2100 01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:11,279 do worry about the financial burden it 2101 01:49:11,279 --> 01:49:12,800 might place on families depending on how 2102 01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:14,399 it's organized and how you write the 2103 01:49:14,399 --> 01:49:16,080 legislation. I think it could 2104 01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,000 disproportionately impact middle-income 2105 01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:20,560 homeowners and also older housing stock 2106 01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:22,000 and those are the people that often are 2107 01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:23,760 renting those units out for the 2108 01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:25,120 financial reasons and so I don't want to 2109 01:49:25,120 --> 01:49:27,439 penalize them. So depending on how it's 2110 01:49:27,439 --> 01:49:30,479 constructed and requiring a specific ADU 2111 01:49:30,479 --> 01:49:32,560 license, I think I'm not totally a fan 2112 01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:34,640 of but maybe an an ADU permit or some 2113 01:49:34,640 --> 01:49:35,920 kind of permit that may be a little bit 2114 01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:37,680 different I would be in favor of. 2115 01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:39,520 >> Go ahead. Wait, I understand what you 2116 01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:40,800 said. 2117 01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:41,760 >> So I 2118 01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:42,640 >> Yes or no? Right. 2119 01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:44,880 >> If I could reframe that maybe. Um the 2120 01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:47,120 question I I think Janet, let me make 2121 01:49:47,120 --> 01:49:49,520 sure I understand your concern is let's 2122 01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:52,880 say the STR operator wants to live in 2123 01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:55,520 the ADU. They obtain an ADU permit and 2124 01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:57,520 they live in the ADU and they wanted to 2125 01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:01,120 STR out the the main dwelling portion of 2126 01:50:01,120 --> 01:50:03,760 it. that main dwelling portion isn't 2127 01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:05,840 necessarily 2128 01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:09,040 the subject to the ADU permit. 2129 01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:11,200 And then there's also concern that by 2130 01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:12,880 adding that duplicative layer of 2131 01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:15,840 licensing, it may price out middle inome 2132 01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:16,560 families. 2133 01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:17,840 >> Yes. 2134 01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:18,399 >> Is that correct? 2135 01:50:18,399 --> 01:50:18,880 >> Yes. 2136 01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:20,640 >> But wait, how does it price them out? 2137 01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:21,520 It's the same. 2138 01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:22,960 >> There's going to be an additional fee. 2139 01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:24,880 There's fees for each of those. 2140 01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:27,920 >> You pay ADU fee once and then you pay 2141 01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:29,520 the STR fee. That's what I was talking 2142 01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:31,120 about that Chris and I did. It is the 2143 01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:32,960 only annual one would be the STR. The 2144 01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:34,560 ADU is not an annual fee. 2145 01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:36,080 >> Well, maybe it depends on what kind of 2146 01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:37,520 you're going to require for the ADU. 2147 01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,359 What kind of standard that needs to be? 2148 01:50:39,359 --> 01:50:40,080 >> It's the current law. 2149 01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:41,600 We changed that. 2150 01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:44,240 >> And how many other cities require ADUs 2151 01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:45,760 required to be ADUs before they can 2152 01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:46,880 they? 2153 01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:49,920 >> Um, I don't have a numerical number on 2154 01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:52,178 that off the top of my head. I do know 2155 01:50:52,178 --> 01:50:53,760 [snorts] that other cities have other 2156 01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:55,920 licensing that is required before you 2157 01:50:55,920 --> 01:50:58,240 obtain your STRL like you go through a 2158 01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:00,640 conditional use permit process or you 2159 01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:03,439 have other permitting processes um that 2160 01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:06,160 are subject to being eligible to then 2161 01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:07,439 get your STRL. 2162 01:51:07,439 --> 01:51:09,600 >> I would be in favor of that. I'm not 2163 01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:11,760 sure. I'm totally in favor of an ADU 2164 01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:12,640 requirement. 2165 01:51:12,640 --> 01:51:14,640 >> Well, wait. I don't Do we have that? 2166 01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:15,760 >> We don't we don't have that. 2167 01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:17,359 >> No, we don't even have that. 2168 01:51:17,359 --> 01:51:19,840 >> But I I I understand what you're what 2169 01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:23,920 you're saying. Um so the question again 2170 01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:25,920 what I understand from Jan is you'd be 2171 01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:29,279 open to in lie of an ADU to adopt a 2172 01:51:29,279 --> 01:51:30,800 policy where there's a conditional use 2173 01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:32,479 permit process. 2174 01:51:32,479 --> 01:51:33,439 >> Is that correct? 2175 01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:34,960 >> Yes. And for example let's say you have 2176 01:51:34,960 --> 01:51:36,960 an older home that was built in 1940 and 2177 01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:38,240 the windows in the basement don't meet 2178 01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:40,479 current egress standard. So the owner 2179 01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:41,439 says well I'm going to live in the 2180 01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:42,960 basement my home I can do that and I'm 2181 01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:44,240 going to rent out the top floor. So he 2182 01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:47,120 wouldn't qualify for an ADU's permit ADU 2183 01:51:47,120 --> 01:51:49,439 whatever license. So I don't want to 2184 01:51:49,439 --> 01:51:51,520 penalize them because of that. Does that 2185 01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:52,800 make sense? 2186 01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:54,479 >> So can I just speak to that? And I'm 2187 01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:57,279 sorry I'm I have experience as I I did 2188 01:51:57,279 --> 01:52:00,479 insurance claims and I saw those types 2189 01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:03,920 of homes and I would never want to 2190 01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:06,720 approve that. Um, I got a call like a 2191 01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:08,399 couple years ago from someone in Orum 2192 01:52:08,399 --> 01:52:09,920 that was trying to do an ADU and he was 2193 01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:11,520 complaining to me, "They're making me 2194 01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:13,120 cut out my windows because my windows 2195 01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:15,920 are too small and it's going to cost me 2196 01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:19,680 $8,000 more to certify my view." And I 2197 01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:22,240 just said to him, "Did you want the 2198 01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:24,720 people that you're renting to to 2199 01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:26,640 possibly die in a fire cuz they couldn't 2200 01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:28,560 get out the windows?" 2201 01:52:28,560 --> 01:52:31,200 Cuz I saw that happen. 2202 01:52:31,200 --> 01:52:32,560 Your chief seen something like that, 2203 01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:33,120 right? 2204 01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:34,479 >> That's why there's a fire code. That's 2205 01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:38,399 why there's a fire code. So, I just I I don't know if that and I'm just saying 2206 01:52:38,399 --> 01:52:40,080 from my experience to kind of help you 2207 01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:41,760 hear my experience and maybe that will 2208 01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:44,640 help you see that it sounds simple, but 2209 01:52:44,640 --> 01:52:46,479 when you actually see it happen in real 2210 01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:49,040 life, you understand why we have fire 2211 01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:51,680 codes. Um, and we [clears throat] don't 2212 01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:52,880 like them because a lot of times they 2213 01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:56,560 cost us money, but they do save lives. 2214 01:52:56,560 --> 01:52:58,479 >> Okay. Jen, anything else you want to 2215 01:52:58,479 --> 01:52:58,960 add? 2216 01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:00,640 >> And that's fine to still have that that 2217 01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:04,399 opinion. I'm just I'm just kind of I'm not you know you're fine. 2218 01:53:04,399 --> 01:53:05,520 >> Well, I I totally get what you're saying 2219 01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:07,200 and I agree with you to to an extent. I 2220 01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:09,600 think where I get a little bit uh thrown 2221 01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:10,960 off is well by that logic we would have 2222 01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:12,479 to then go inspect every home in AR and 2223 01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:13,520 say well this doesn't qualify. You got 2224 01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:14,720 to bring your home up to code. So where 2225 01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:17,040 does that line do that? No, this is only 2226 01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:18,560 people who want a license. 2227 01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:19,920 >> But I also think it's a little bit 2228 01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:21,600 different when you're renting out a 2229 01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:26,080 basement separate from the top because 2230 01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:29,120 then you can't access that top part to 2231 01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:30,800 get out so to speak. Does that make and 2232 01:53:30,800 --> 01:53:32,880 there should I'm guessing they would 2233 01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:34,720 have a separate entrance and exit and 2234 01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:37,680 all that but that's where to me it 2235 01:53:37,680 --> 01:53:42,399 becomes a little bit different is they 2236 01:53:42,399 --> 01:53:45,520 you've got separation of spaces there 2237 01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:47,200 where the basement can't necessarily 2238 01:53:47,200 --> 01:53:50,319 access the the floor as another way to 2239 01:53:50,319 --> 01:53:55,990 get out if needed. That option's gone. 2240 01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,240 » Quinton, if I could get your opinion. 2241 01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:00,640 >> Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm not comfortable 2242 01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:05,520 with um, rentals where it would be a 2243 01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:07,200 hostile style thing where you were 2244 01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:09,200 renting a bed in a room uh, with other 2245 01:54:09,200 --> 01:54:10,640 people that you don't know. I'm not 2246 01:54:10,640 --> 01:54:12,240 comfortable with that. I think needs to 2247 01:54:12,240 --> 01:54:15,680 be a space designated for the renter. If 2248 01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:18,800 even if it's one one room, um, I would 2249 01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:20,479 be okay with that. 2250 01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:23,200 Um, I am 2251 01:54:23,200 --> 01:54:25,520 I'm worried about overregulation on this 2252 01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:28,960 and worried about the cost of 2253 01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:30,479 um 2254 01:54:30,479 --> 01:54:32,720 of 2255 01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:34,880 whatever part of the home uh receiving 2256 01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:40,319 an ADU license. I'm also concerned about 2257 01:54:40,319 --> 01:54:43,200 controlling which part of the home um is 2258 01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:45,279 allowed to be rented out. 2259 01:54:45,279 --> 01:54:47,680 I think again we have a lot of different 2260 01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:50,319 families in different situations. 2261 01:54:50,319 --> 01:54:53,359 Um maybe they their kids are gone, they 2262 01:54:53,359 --> 01:54:56,800 have a large home um and it doesn't make 2263 01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:59,200 sense for them to just rent out an ADU 2264 01:54:59,200 --> 01:55:00,560 portion of the home, but maybe it makes 2265 01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:02,720 sense for them to rent out their the 2266 01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:04,720 main living space. 2267 01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:06,960 I would be cautious about overregulation 2268 01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:08,080 here. 2269 01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:10,640 >> Thank you, Jeff. 2270 01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:13,279 Um, 2271 01:55:13,279 --> 01:55:15,279 so I'm thinking of a couple of different 2272 01:55:15,279 --> 01:55:19,200 people, uh, older seniors that, 2273 01:55:19,200 --> 01:55:21,840 uh, have mentioned to me that they're, 2274 01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:23,840 uh, 2275 01:55:23,840 --> 01:55:25,200 the only way that they're able to stay 2276 01:55:25,200 --> 01:55:27,520 in their home is because they rent out a 2277 01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:29,600 room. 2278 01:55:29,600 --> 01:55:32,319 I don't like that. I don't like the, you 2279 01:55:32,319 --> 01:55:35,920 know, the the hostile. 2280 01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:40,080 sounds hostile. the the that 2281 01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:41,920 situation. I I think that everyone 2282 01:55:41,920 --> 01:55:46,319 should have their own space. Um I I 2283 01:55:46,319 --> 01:55:49,279 don't know. But at the same time, I'm 2284 01:55:49,279 --> 01:55:51,359 concerned about 2285 01:55:51,359 --> 01:55:53,520 and I don't know how many people would 2286 01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:55,439 fit into that category, but people that, 2287 01:55:55,439 --> 01:55:57,200 you know, this is helping me make my 2288 01:55:57,200 --> 01:56:00,640 mortgage payment. I'm in my 70s or 80s 2289 01:56:00,640 --> 01:56:02,880 and I'm renting out of room. You know, 2290 01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:05,200 it's a single man wants a home. is 2291 01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:07,359 running out of room to a single another 2292 01:56:07,359 --> 01:56:10,240 single man who's in town on business. 2293 01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:12,080 Um, 2294 01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:16,080 and I don't like the consequences of him 2295 01:56:16,080 --> 01:56:18,880 losing his home because 2296 01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:20,960 he's not able to make that make that 2297 01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:24,479 income. So, having said that, I think I 2298 01:56:24,479 --> 01:56:27,279 would prefer to not have the hostile 2299 01:56:27,279 --> 01:56:28,560 situation. So, I don't know if there's a 2300 01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:30,319 way that there I I don't know how you 2301 01:56:30,319 --> 01:56:32,399 get around that. I don't know how you 2302 01:56:32,399 --> 01:56:36,000 navigate that thread that needle but 2303 01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:37,760 >> so which one I didn't quite understand 2304 01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:38,319 either. 2305 01:56:38,319 --> 01:56:41,920 >> So I would prefer to not have the hostel 2306 01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:44,240 but at the same time my heart goes out 2307 01:56:44,240 --> 01:56:46,800 to those who might be in a situation 2308 01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,439 where it's helping them keep their home. 2309 01:56:49,439 --> 01:56:51,760 >> He means hostile as a boarding room 2310 01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:53,680 >> like 2311 01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:56,880 the AD. So the ADU the separate is your 2312 01:56:56,880 --> 01:56:58,880 choices here. Okay. 2313 01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:01,359 >> I agree. I don't like I in this 2314 01:57:01,359 --> 01:57:02,880 particular s I wouldn't step into their 2315 01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:04,399 I didn't step into their kitchen. It's 2316 01:57:04,399 --> 01:57:08,000 like I'll just the stairs down anyway. I 2317 01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:10,479 don't care which where which part of the 2318 01:57:10,479 --> 01:57:13,680 owner lives in up or down or half of the 2319 01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:15,600 house or half of I whatever whatever it 2320 01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:18,720 is they do. I am comfortable with the 2321 01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:20,720 accessory apartment permit and this is 2322 01:57:20,720 --> 01:57:24,399 why because of the safety issues that 2323 01:57:24,399 --> 01:57:27,200 are involved. I I under I I do want to 2324 01:57:27,200 --> 01:57:31,359 minimize duplication of of licensing and 2325 01:57:31,359 --> 01:57:35,200 inspections. And if there are laws, if 2326 01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:37,840 there rules, I would like to if we're 2327 01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:40,240 writing the new ordinance, look at that 2328 01:57:40,240 --> 01:57:41,520 accessory apartment ordinance, which I 2329 01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:44,000 know you'll do, and do that. What I also 2330 01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:47,279 do think too is that that creates an 2331 01:57:47,279 --> 01:57:50,319 apartment in the in a dwelling that is 2332 01:57:50,319 --> 01:57:53,200 long-term rental ready. What I can see 2333 01:57:53,200 --> 01:57:54,960 happening is somebody doing short-term 2334 01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:56,560 rentals for a while and then saying, "I 2335 01:57:56,560 --> 01:57:57,760 don't really want to do this anymore. I 2336 01:57:57,760 --> 01:57:59,200 just want to rent it." Yeah. Rent it 2337 01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:00,560 out. Even though a lot of times we'd 2338 01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:02,479 hear from people saying the other way 2339 01:58:02,479 --> 01:58:03,920 that they would prefer to do short-term 2340 01:58:03,920 --> 01:58:06,160 rentals, but but then that way we're not 2341 01:58:06,160 --> 01:58:07,760 trying to deal with what would be then 2342 01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:09,200 at that point an illegal accessory 2343 01:58:09,200 --> 01:58:10,479 apartment because it wasn't brought up 2344 01:58:10,479 --> 01:58:13,520 to the standard. I'm concerned and I and 2345 01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:14,800 I appreciate where you're coming from 2346 01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:17,120 with that. I've had some as a council 2347 01:58:17,120 --> 01:58:20,080 member some pretty um tough situations 2348 01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:22,560 with conditional use permits and 2349 01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:25,200 personally I would prefer not to have I 2350 01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:26,960 like to have as few of those in our 2351 01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:29,359 ordinances as possible 2352 01:58:29,359 --> 01:58:31,920 and 2353 01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:33,760 let's not talk about cassitas or guest 2354 01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:37,120 houses today or next week or next month 2355 01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:41,760 or next year. Okay, 2356 01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:44,319 >> but that's sort of 2357 01:58:44,319 --> 01:58:46,800 >> um I'm out of time. I want to respect 2358 01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:48,720 everybody else that is on the agenda 2359 01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:52,399 today. Um just to preview, I would still 2360 01:58:52,399 --> 01:58:54,640 like to talk about a couple different 2361 01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:57,279 areas which is a dormcancy period for 2362 01:58:57,279 --> 01:59:01,359 short-term rentals. Um high level is 2363 01:59:01,359 --> 01:59:04,080 this would allow us um and we're not 2364 01:59:04,080 --> 01:59:07,040 asking it to be consecutive days that it 2365 01:59:07,040 --> 01:59:10,479 is dormant like in a 30-day window that 2366 01:59:10,479 --> 01:59:13,279 it'd be dormant for 5 days not 2367 01:59:13,279 --> 01:59:18,960 consecutively but this way it does um 2368 01:59:18,960 --> 01:59:21,520 reduce a loophole for somebody to 2369 01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:26,240 potentially use STRs for student housing 2370 01:59:26,240 --> 01:59:29,680 or in another way that could be not what 2371 01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:33,439 we are foreseeing the STR use for 2372 01:59:33,439 --> 01:59:38,000 um [clears throat] a legacy status uh 2373 01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:40,880 for individuals that have obtained a 2374 01:59:40,880 --> 01:59:42,734 rental dwelling license that may 2375 01:59:42,734 --> 01:59:44,720 [clears throat] be not able to get a 2376 01:59:44,720 --> 01:59:46,720 license given to other regulations. So 2377 01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:49,840 please look at that for future and then 2378 01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:53,439 ultimately um a path forward with how do 2379 01:59:53,439 --> 01:59:54,880 we bring this through planning 2380 01:59:54,880 --> 01:59:57,279 commission and let planning commission 2381 01:59:57,279 --> 01:59:59,760 review that provide a recommendation 2382 01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:01,279 have the public have a chance to see 2383 02:00:01,279 --> 02:00:04,160 whatever that final ordinance is and 2384 02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:07,520 then coming back to council with a an 2385 02:00:07,520 --> 02:00:09,600 ordinance with any recommendations from 2386 02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:12,399 the planning commission. So don't know 2387 02:00:12,399 --> 02:00:14,160 when you'd like me back. Maybe you never 2388 02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:16,319 want me to come back. You want to expand 2389 02:00:16,319 --> 02:00:16,640 that? 2390 02:00:16,640 --> 02:00:17,520 >> Command. 2391 02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:20,000 >> I know. Council, a couple of different 2392 02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:21,840 things I would just want to ask is do 2393 02:00:21,840 --> 02:00:23,680 you feel we need some more work session 2394 02:00:23,680 --> 02:00:26,160 time? That's the first piece to talk 2395 02:00:26,160 --> 02:00:27,520 about some things. I would like to 2396 02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:30,080 discuss um [clears throat] 2397 02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:32,960 the the one provision that says that it 2398 02:00:32,960 --> 02:00:35,120 has to be occupied for of its owner 2399 02:00:35,120 --> 02:00:37,040 occupied 183 days a year. I would like 2400 02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:39,120 to see that increase so we don't end up 2401 02:00:39,120 --> 02:00:40,560 five plus months of the year possibly 2402 02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:45,680 having two two rentals. But then um 2403 02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:48,399 if we and then if the process to where 2404 02:00:48,399 --> 02:00:52,720 the public can have ample opportunity to 2405 02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:56,160 give feedback on a proposed ordinance. 2406 02:00:56,160 --> 02:00:58,880 So I know that the process is to go to 2407 02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:01,120 the planning commission and then to the 2408 02:01:01,120 --> 02:01:05,680 city council. So I was 2409 02:01:05,680 --> 02:01:07,359 what what council what do you think 2410 02:01:07,359 --> 02:01:09,359 about what what do you think would 2411 02:01:09,359 --> 02:01:11,359 maximize to your to your level of 2412 02:01:11,359 --> 02:01:14,080 comfort the level of of opportunity for 2413 02:01:14,080 --> 02:01:16,560 public input on this? So, first of all, 2414 02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:17,840 works. Do we need another work session? 2415 02:01:17,840 --> 02:01:20,479 And second, what kind of public input 2416 02:01:20,479 --> 02:01:23,359 process is it? Do we follow the hearing 2417 02:01:23,359 --> 02:01:25,920 process or do you want to have like in 2418 02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:27,279 the hearing, say we're going to talk 2419 02:01:27,279 --> 02:01:29,279 about occupancy and then take public 2420 02:01:29,279 --> 02:01:30,479 comment and then we're going to talk 2421 02:01:30,479 --> 02:01:31,840 about parking and then take public 2422 02:01:31,840 --> 02:01:34,000 comment or what is it that you would 2423 02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:35,200 like to see? 2424 02:01:35,200 --> 02:01:37,200 >> Yes. On another work session, 2425 02:01:37,200 --> 02:01:38,080 >> another work session. 2426 02:01:38,080 --> 02:01:39,439 >> I think we're done going. 2427 02:01:39,439 --> 02:01:41,279 >> Yeah. We haven't talked about geo 2428 02:01:41,279 --> 02:01:42,800 fencing density. 2429 02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:46,399 >> Okay. So we want to have you back is 2430 02:01:46,399 --> 02:01:47,279 very deep. 2431 02:01:47,279 --> 02:01:50,000 >> And to your point of public involvement. 2432 02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:50,960 >> Yeah. The public 2433 02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:53,760 >> I I really like that idea. If we were to 2434 02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:55,760 put on our agenda, we're going to talk 2435 02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:58,160 about occupancy. I mean, look at us. 2436 02:01:58,160 --> 02:02:00,560 We've got all these different ideas, 2437 02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:03,040 right? So maybe if we and we have some 2438 02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:07,760 public comment about their experiences, 2439 02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:12,399 their ideas, their thoughts, um I think 2440 02:02:12,399 --> 02:02:14,399 we could benefit from that. 2441 02:02:14,399 --> 02:02:16,240 >> Okay. So what you're suggesting then is 2442 02:02:16,240 --> 02:02:17,600 >> maybe put but like what you said 2443 02:02:17,600 --> 02:02:19,600 occupancy. I mean what are the big ones? 2444 02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:21,600 Occupancy, density, parking. 2445 02:02:21,600 --> 02:02:24,000 >> That would be separate from the public 2446 02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:26,720 from the the the agenda item where we 2447 02:02:26,720 --> 02:02:29,359 look at the item as a whole. 2448 02:02:29,359 --> 02:02:31,439 >> Okay. What do you 2449 02:02:31,439 --> 02:02:32,880 Jake, we could have a public hearing in 2450 02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:35,040 the planning commission. Yes. Right. 2451 02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:37,120 >> So, I'm I I think that that would be 2452 02:02:37,120 --> 02:02:40,479 beneficial u to notice that so that 2453 02:02:40,479 --> 02:02:41,840 planning commission can also have public 2454 02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:42,479 feedback. 2455 02:02:42,479 --> 02:02:44,160 >> Yep. So, city council and planning 2456 02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:47,840 commission. I like that idea. 2457 02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:50,000 >> So, I want to get some clarity then on 2458 02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:52,800 what our path forward is. So, I'll come 2459 02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:55,359 back for a future work session. Uh 2460 02:02:55,359 --> 02:02:57,600 finish off the discussion with that. 2461 02:02:57,600 --> 02:02:59,520 Hopefully, I think I've got some good 2462 02:02:59,520 --> 02:03:02,160 ideas of where council is on different 2463 02:03:02,160 --> 02:03:05,359 things. I would draft an ordinance. 2464 02:03:05,359 --> 02:03:07,279 At that point, do you want me to come 2465 02:03:07,279 --> 02:03:09,600 back and have a public hearing at the 2466 02:03:09,600 --> 02:03:11,920 council level or do you want me to first 2467 02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:13,520 go to the planning commission, go 2468 02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:15,040 through the public hearing at planning 2469 02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:17,760 commission? I guess that's my question. 2470 02:03:17,760 --> 02:03:19,920 One of those routes. So I would think 2471 02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:23,359 procedurally they would come to us first 2472 02:03:23,359 --> 02:03:25,840 and then we would tweak any ordinance 2473 02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:29,040 and then go to the planning commission 2474 02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:30,560 >> and then come back to us. 2475 02:03:30,560 --> 02:03:32,319 >> Uhhuh. Once the planning commission is 2476 02:03:32,319 --> 02:03:35,040 heard the final ordinance. 2477 02:03:35,040 --> 02:03:38,080 >> So you saying do that in a work session 2478 02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:39,920 >> then go to the planning commission? I'm 2479 02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:41,760 saying have city council meeting where 2480 02:03:41,760 --> 02:03:48,080 we agenda items with a public um hearing 2481 02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:50,319 where they can talk on these hot button 2482 02:03:50,319 --> 02:03:53,359 issues the ones that are the most 2483 02:03:53,359 --> 02:03:57,040 impactful residents. Then that helps us 2484 02:03:57,040 --> 02:03:59,439 refine the ordinance 2485 02:03:59,439 --> 02:04:01,120 and then go to the planning commission 2486 02:04:01,120 --> 02:04:02,399 because the planning commission really 2487 02:04:02,399 --> 02:04:04,640 is not going to they have no for people 2488 02:04:04,640 --> 02:04:06,640 to go and talk at planning commission. 2489 02:04:06,640 --> 02:04:08,560 We would have to be there. it planning 2490 02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:10,080 commission has no legislative authority 2491 02:04:10,080 --> 02:04:12,000 on this. 2492 02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:14,479 It's just a formality. 2493 02:04:14,479 --> 02:04:16,000 So I think if we're going to really hear 2494 02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:18,080 the public, we need to put set aside 2495 02:04:18,080 --> 02:04:22,080 time as a council to 2496 02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:26,640 hear their on specific parts of this 2497 02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:27,840 because I don't know about you, but I've 2498 02:04:27,840 --> 02:04:29,680 had a lot of people ask me, "What does 2499 02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:34,560 the ordinance say? I don't know what to ask you for because I don't 2500 02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:35,840 know." And I'm like, "I don't know yet. 2501 02:04:35,840 --> 02:04:37,200 We haven't seen it. We're still 2502 02:04:37,200 --> 02:04:38,800 formulating it. 2503 02:04:38,800 --> 02:04:41,120 >> And Lenn, are you thinking like the 2504 02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:43,760 council meeting we would do like two 2505 02:04:43,760 --> 02:04:45,279 topics a night or you think you'd just 2506 02:04:45,279 --> 02:04:46,880 do them all in one night to separate 2507 02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:48,880 them by topic? 2508 02:04:48,880 --> 02:04:51,279 >> Um, I guess I'd have to see what they 2509 02:04:51,279 --> 02:04:52,800 were. I don't know, Jake. here. 2510 02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:55,840 >> I mean, the way I would anticipate if if 2511 02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:57,600 this is the direction you'd like to go 2512 02:04:57,600 --> 02:05:00,640 is we could come back work session, then 2513 02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,200 I could come back for a council meeting 2514 02:05:03,200 --> 02:05:06,240 as an agenda item during which you could 2515 02:05:06,240 --> 02:05:07,920 there's no requirement to do a public 2516 02:05:07,920 --> 02:05:09,520 hearing with that agenda item, but you 2517 02:05:09,520 --> 02:05:11,520 could do a public hearing with that 2518 02:05:11,520 --> 02:05:14,800 agenda item. That draft would be public 2519 02:05:14,800 --> 02:05:16,560 and available and individuals from the 2520 02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:19,279 public could speak on whatever issue 2521 02:05:19,279 --> 02:05:22,560 they have with that draft. that gives 2522 02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:25,920 council feedback on that draft. Based on 2523 02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:30,160 that, we could then tweak the ordinance 2524 02:05:30,160 --> 02:05:32,479 based on that public hearing. Council 2525 02:05:32,479 --> 02:05:34,080 after closing the public hearing could 2526 02:05:34,080 --> 02:05:36,319 say on hearing this, we'd like to see X, 2527 02:05:36,319 --> 02:05:38,479 Y, or Z. 2528 02:05:38,479 --> 02:05:40,399 And then I could dig it to planning 2529 02:05:40,399 --> 02:05:41,840 commission and go through the planning 2530 02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:43,439 commission process. Go through that 2531 02:05:43,439 --> 02:05:45,120 public hearing and then come back to the 2532 02:05:45,120 --> 02:05:47,520 council for a final meeting. 2533 02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:50,000 Is that 2534 02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:52,479 >> just a point of clarification with the 2535 02:05:52,479 --> 02:05:55,040 intent that 2536 02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:57,439 everything go to planning commission 2537 02:05:57,439 --> 02:05:59,359 because some of this there could be an 2538 02:05:59,359 --> 02:06:01,040 ordinance amendments dealing with 2539 02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:04,080 licensing or amendments dealing with the 2540 02:06:04,080 --> 02:06:07,840 zoning code. Not all not necessarily 2541 02:06:07,840 --> 02:06:10,319 does business licensing issues go to 2542 02:06:10,319 --> 02:06:12,720 planning commission. So you would want 2543 02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:14,479 all everything to go to planning 2544 02:06:14,479 --> 02:06:16,880 commission because it'll just help us. 2545 02:06:16,880 --> 02:06:18,000 >> Yes. 2546 02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:19,040 >> Formulate 2547 02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:21,840 >> fees or you know and that's licensing 2548 02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:23,359 right? Is that what you're saying? And 2549 02:06:23,359 --> 02:06:25,920 maybe um 2550 02:06:25,920 --> 02:06:27,760 >> our intent would be everything go 2551 02:06:27,760 --> 02:06:28,240 planning 2552 02:06:28,240 --> 02:06:29,359 >> everything. Okay. 2553 02:06:29,359 --> 02:06:30,560 >> Where do you think planning commission 2554 02:06:30,560 --> 02:06:34,399 will be most helpful to us Gary? 2555 02:06:34,399 --> 02:06:36,160 Well, 2556 02:06:36,160 --> 02:06:39,200 certainly on the zoning code, those 2557 02:06:39,200 --> 02:06:41,200 things have to go to planning 2558 02:06:41,200 --> 02:06:44,399 commission. Planning commission could be 2559 02:06:44,399 --> 02:06:47,920 helpful on other things, but would just 2560 02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:49,920 give you a recommendation. Our code 2561 02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:52,720 anticipates this anyways that anything 2562 02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:55,680 the council whether it's traditionally 2563 02:06:55,680 --> 02:06:58,319 or under state law or city code there's 2564 02:06:58,319 --> 02:06:59,840 to deal with if you want to give 2565 02:06:59,840 --> 02:07:02,000 assignments to planning commission to 2566 02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:05,520 look at but it I think it could be they 2567 02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:08,160 could be helpful in both areas one they 2568 02:07:08,160 --> 02:07:10,240 have to the other one they could be very 2569 02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:14,000 helpful it just more helps me know how 2570 02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:16,240 to fashion agendas and deal with those 2571 02:07:16,240 --> 02:07:18,080 issues and present it to planning 2572 02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:20,720 commission and educate them on what they 2573 02:07:20,720 --> 02:07:22,720 would be doing. 2574 02:07:22,720 --> 02:07:24,080 And they'll need a little bit of 2575 02:07:24,080 --> 02:07:26,720 context. Frankly, I would imagine we'd 2576 02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:29,120 need a work meeting with planning 2577 02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:32,960 commission. Uh it's taken how many 2578 02:07:32,960 --> 02:07:36,240 meetings here to get some I I think we 2579 02:07:36,240 --> 02:07:39,359 need at least one work meeting to bring 2580 02:07:39,359 --> 02:07:42,240 planning commission up to speed so that 2581 02:07:42,240 --> 02:07:44,640 they can understand it and then hold a 2582 02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:46,240 formal 2583 02:07:46,240 --> 02:07:48,399 public hearing where people would come 2584 02:07:48,399 --> 02:07:50,000 in and then they could make 2585 02:07:50,000 --> 02:07:52,000 recommendations to you. So I don't think 2586 02:07:52,000 --> 02:07:54,479 it' just be one night a quick thing. If 2587 02:07:54,479 --> 02:07:56,960 you want meaningful input from the 2588 02:07:56,960 --> 02:07:58,000 meetings, 2589 02:07:58,000 --> 02:08:00,560 >> at least two meetings. Yes. 2590 02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:03,120 >> So Gary, planning commission would 2591 02:08:03,120 --> 02:08:06,479 respond to pol the overall policy 2592 02:08:06,479 --> 02:08:08,720 direction that would come from the city. 2593 02:08:08,720 --> 02:08:09,359 >> Yes. 2594 02:08:09,359 --> 02:08:13,279 >> We would take that or not clear session 2595 02:08:13,279 --> 02:08:14,000 and 2596 02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:16,000 >> Yeah. And and that's what we would make 2597 02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:19,520 clear to them is okay, this is what's 2598 02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:23,040 happened based on what the council did. 2599 02:08:23,040 --> 02:08:25,840 We have a draft of several ordinances to 2600 02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:28,240 look at. We would explain to them what 2601 02:08:28,240 --> 02:08:30,640 they do, kind of the the philosophy 2602 02:08:30,640 --> 02:08:33,359 behind them so that they can then read 2603 02:08:33,359 --> 02:08:37,279 them, understand, and be able to really 2604 02:08:37,279 --> 02:08:39,040 respond to it and then hold a public 2605 02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:42,240 hearing and get input. And plus, it 2606 02:08:42,240 --> 02:08:46,319 would give them uh time to once we 2607 02:08:46,319 --> 02:08:48,560 introduce something to them to think 2608 02:08:48,560 --> 02:08:51,760 about it. uh because they may be oh gosh 2609 02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:54,240 I've never thought about this this is 2610 02:08:54,240 --> 02:08:58,160 difficult to work through and so I think 2611 02:08:58,160 --> 02:08:59,840 those two means did that answer your 2612 02:08:59,840 --> 02:09:03,359 question so they would respond to a 2613 02:09:03,359 --> 02:09:06,080 overall policy direction with assumably 2614 02:09:06,080 --> 02:09:10,880 some some guard rails and you know that has 2615 02:09:10,880 --> 02:09:12,960 something for the that's going to be 2616 02:09:12,960 --> 02:09:15,920 something formal and drafted uh so they 2617 02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:18,399 know where to kind of stay within. So 2618 02:09:18,399 --> 02:09:19,920 the benefit would be they're going to 2619 02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:23,120 respond to that to suggest or advise 2620 02:09:23,120 --> 02:09:25,600 potential refinements, 2621 02:09:25,600 --> 02:09:28,720 but it's they're not going to go in they 2622 02:09:28,720 --> 02:09:30,800 wouldn't have the expectation to spend 2623 02:09:30,800 --> 02:09:33,760 another year and a half. And and that 2624 02:09:33,760 --> 02:09:36,160 would be part of that work session to 2625 02:09:36,160 --> 02:09:38,319 explain what the council would 2626 02:09:38,319 --> 02:09:40,720 anticipate a work session to bring them 2627 02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:42,560 up to speed, think about it, hold a 2628 02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:45,279 public hearing and make a recommendation 2629 02:09:45,279 --> 02:09:48,800 that is and not continue it, you know, 2630 02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:51,359 several times because this is a big 2631 02:09:51,359 --> 02:09:53,600 important issue and 2632 02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:56,640 >> but this would be after we have another 2633 02:09:56,640 --> 02:09:58,880 work session. Is that right? Can we get 2634 02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:00,720 that as soon as 2635 02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:02,720 >> we know thus far 2636 02:10:02,720 --> 02:10:04,319 >> as soon as possible? 2637 02:10:04,319 --> 02:10:05,600 >> It's ready kind of a mode 2638 02:10:05,600 --> 02:10:07,040 >> for that. 2639 02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:09,279 >> And and just for those in the room who 2640 02:10:09,279 --> 02:10:12,479 are visiting us this even this well was 2641 02:10:12,479 --> 02:10:13,760 not this evening this afternoon and 2642 02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:16,720 online. We're not trying to we we all 2643 02:10:16,720 --> 02:10:19,279 love our our attorney friend here. We're 2644 02:10:19,279 --> 02:10:20,479 not trying to give him extra job 2645 02:10:20,479 --> 02:10:23,279 security by making this longer. The 2646 02:10:23,279 --> 02:10:26,479 point is is we want the public to have 2647 02:10:26,479 --> 02:10:29,920 ample opportunity to give input and to 2648 02:10:29,920 --> 02:10:31,920 see what we're considering. That is I 2649 02:10:31,920 --> 02:10:33,600 know as a council as I've talked to each 2650 02:10:33,600 --> 02:10:35,920 council member public input and 2651 02:10:35,920 --> 02:10:38,319 opportunity for that is crucial. So 2652 02:10:38,319 --> 02:10:39,920 that's we're not just trying to prolong 2653 02:10:39,920 --> 02:10:42,640 it to make anybody's lives 2654 02:10:42,640 --> 02:10:45,040 more difficult. It's just that we want 2655 02:10:45,040 --> 02:10:49,200 to make sure that you as a public have 2656 02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:53,840 the opportunity to weigh in on this. So, 2657 02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:54,800 >> all right. 2658 02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:55,200 >> Thank you. 2659 02:10:55,200 --> 02:10:58,479 >> We need a break. A brief break. Okay. 2660 02:10:58,479 --> 02:10:59,920 We'll be meet back here at quarter to 2661 02:10:59,920 --> 02:11:04,790 five and tagger. 2662 02:11:04,800 --> 02:11:06,640 Ready to go. 2663 02:11:06,640 --> 02:19:03,910 >> Thanks, Jake. 2664 02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:06,560 All right. Our next item on the agenda 2665 02:19:06,560 --> 02:19:10,560 is item 1.3. It's a presentation. Our 2666 02:19:10,560 --> 02:19:12,399 budget present part of our budget 2667 02:19:12,399 --> 02:19:16,880 presentation. Our CIP and Tagert Bowen, 2668 02:19:16,880 --> 02:19:18,960 city engineer is our presenter. So, our 2669 02:19:18,960 --> 02:19:21,359 capital improvement project. So, thank 2670 02:19:21,359 --> 02:19:24,239 you for your patience, Tagger, as we we 2671 02:19:24,239 --> 02:19:25,760 wrestled with the other things for a 2672 02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:26,640 while. 2673 02:19:26,640 --> 02:19:28,080 >> Thanks, Mayor. 2674 02:19:28,080 --> 02:19:30,399 >> Yeah, like like Mayor said, this is the 2675 02:19:30,399 --> 02:19:32,080 presentation for capital improvement 2676 02:19:32,080 --> 02:19:36,000 project CIP for fiscal year 27. 2677 02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:37,520 And we'll we'll go through a list of 2678 02:19:37,520 --> 02:19:39,600 projects here, many projects, dollar 2679 02:19:39,600 --> 02:19:42,319 figures, doing some pictures. If you 2680 02:19:42,319 --> 02:19:45,040 have any questions, feel free to stop me 2681 02:19:45,040 --> 02:19:46,880 or or ask those and we'll we get to 2682 02:19:46,880 --> 02:19:48,319 those. 2683 02:19:48,319 --> 02:19:50,080 write a brief description for each one 2684 02:19:50,080 --> 02:19:51,760 and move quickly through these so we can 2685 02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:55,760 get to the the other presentations. 2686 02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:58,319 >> This first slide here is just showing 2687 02:19:58,319 --> 02:20:02,080 all the dollar amounts for those. Um 2688 02:20:02,080 --> 02:20:04,399 first we have the CIP fund just over 5 2689 02:20:04,399 --> 02:20:07,279 million that includes care funding for 2690 02:20:07,279 --> 02:20:09,920 water 5.2 million water. 2691 02:20:09,920 --> 02:20:12,000 >> So that includes the 3.6 care. 2692 02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:14,640 >> Okay. All of 2693 02:20:14,640 --> 02:20:15,760 that. 2694 02:20:15,760 --> 02:20:19,760 >> Okay. Just the part. Okay. Thank you. 2695 02:20:19,760 --> 02:20:22,560 >> Sewer 8 and a half million. 2696 02:20:22,560 --> 02:20:26,479 >> Storm water 3.6. Then our streets fund 2697 02:20:26,479 --> 02:20:33,510 5.3 for just under 8 million. 2698 02:20:33,520 --> 02:20:36,399 » First project, city center wayfinding. 2699 02:20:36,399 --> 02:20:39,120 That includes signage. If you've seen 2700 02:20:39,120 --> 02:20:41,840 out here by the park, got that all 2701 02:20:41,840 --> 02:20:43,520 concrete sign. When I first saw this, I 2702 02:20:43,520 --> 02:20:45,040 thought it was like 3 feet tall and then 2703 02:20:45,040 --> 02:20:46,479 I walked out there to it and realized 2704 02:20:46,479 --> 02:20:50,239 it's pretty big. Nice sign. Also, 2705 02:20:50,239 --> 02:20:53,520 wayfinding signs. And then this is a 2706 02:20:53,520 --> 02:20:56,239 nice sign out there on the corner. Um 2707 02:20:56,239 --> 02:20:58,399 signs like these just around city center 2708 02:20:58,399 --> 02:21:04,150 campus is what that item would be. 2709 02:21:04,160 --> 02:21:05,600 Nelson's Grove Scope improvements would 2710 02:21:05,600 --> 02:21:08,319 include improvements to got some ponds 2711 02:21:08,319 --> 02:21:10,880 there, liners for those ponds, some 2712 02:21:10,880 --> 02:21:13,680 buildings that need maintenance, some 2713 02:21:13,680 --> 02:21:16,479 other things at Nelson's Grove RC mower 2714 02:21:16,479 --> 02:21:18,960 75,000. 2715 02:21:18,960 --> 02:21:20,720 This is that steep slope down here on 2716 02:21:20,720 --> 02:21:22,880 Center Street that would be a remote 2717 02:21:22,880 --> 02:21:25,600 controlled mower. Pretty cool. 2718 02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:27,120 >> Wow. 2719 02:21:27,120 --> 02:21:29,439 It's making it safer. Tree planting for 2720 02:21:29,439 --> 02:21:32,800 150,000. this to be various areas and 2721 02:21:32,800 --> 02:21:35,120 city- owned properties for trees. 2722 02:21:35,120 --> 02:21:38,640 Windsor Park, ballfield dirt 2723 02:21:38,640 --> 02:21:40,560 would be similar to out here at city 2724 02:21:40,560 --> 02:21:42,640 center. 2725 02:21:42,640 --> 02:21:45,600 Nice ball field dirt to for Windsor 2726 02:21:45,600 --> 02:21:48,960 Bonavville Sports Court. 2727 02:21:48,960 --> 02:21:52,640 We've put this out to bid and that'd be 2728 02:21:52,640 --> 02:21:55,680 uh replacing the current asphalt 2729 02:21:55,680 --> 02:21:58,000 basketball court with a post-tension 2730 02:21:58,000 --> 02:22:00,319 concrete court. 2731 02:22:00,319 --> 02:22:02,960 Bonfield Park. 2732 02:22:02,960 --> 02:22:05,439 This one I didn't know what this was. 2733 02:22:05,439 --> 02:22:07,760 This is Canyon View Park. Not that 2734 02:22:07,760 --> 02:22:09,520 familiar with this type of project, but 2735 02:22:09,520 --> 02:22:13,439 dog park and Rainbow Bridge for 85,000. 2736 02:22:13,439 --> 02:22:16,319 Guess it's kind of like a 2737 02:22:16,319 --> 02:22:21,510 cemetery or 2738 02:22:21,520 --> 02:22:23,920 » remains will be there. 2739 02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:26,880 >> Dog color on there or locks. 2740 02:22:26,880 --> 02:22:30,080 Special thanks to no wise that's passed 2741 02:22:30,080 --> 02:22:34,870 away and this is a big park. 2742 02:22:34,880 --> 02:22:37,920 15,000 for some constructing the 2743 02:22:37,920 --> 02:22:41,680 softball dugouts at elementary 2744 02:22:41,680 --> 02:22:44,000 getting run down there. Freshening those 2745 02:22:44,000 --> 02:22:46,960 up now. Tempogous event center for 2746 02:22:46,960 --> 02:22:49,359 40,000. Some maintenance type 2747 02:22:49,359 --> 02:22:53,359 improvements there at Temponogus Park. 2748 02:22:53,359 --> 02:22:56,479 Uh the last two here is let's go back 2749 02:22:56,479 --> 02:23:00,000 park 500,000 pump track 2750 02:23:00,000 --> 02:23:01,760 and 2751 02:23:01,760 --> 02:23:04,080 it's a pretty a pretty cool thing over 2752 02:23:04,080 --> 02:23:06,000 in Cook Park in Pleasant Grove if you've 2753 02:23:06,000 --> 02:23:07,920 been there and familiar with that that 2754 02:23:07,920 --> 02:23:10,239 the kids love these pump tracks. They're 2755 02:23:10,239 --> 02:23:13,279 really popular to be these are just 2756 02:23:13,279 --> 02:23:16,160 examples and what could go in there and 2757 02:23:16,160 --> 02:23:20,399 that's a community park. Then uh another 2758 02:23:20,399 --> 02:23:23,520 project at Spring Water would be right 2759 02:23:23,520 --> 02:23:26,160 down there by the treatment plant with a 2760 02:23:26,160 --> 02:23:28,880 RC track and then a pump track option 2761 02:23:28,880 --> 02:23:32,950 there. 2762 02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:35,920 The last item on this slide, 925,000 for 2763 02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:40,309 lakeside playground replacement. 2764 02:23:40,319 --> 02:23:42,399 Playground's been well used here and 2765 02:23:42,399 --> 02:23:45,200 definitely needs replacement. So have 2766 02:23:45,200 --> 02:23:47,840 some concepts here of there's an above 2767 02:23:47,840 --> 02:23:50,239 ground view of 2768 02:23:50,239 --> 02:23:53,120 slides and swings and then on the left 2769 02:23:53,120 --> 02:23:54,720 there 2770 02:23:54,720 --> 02:23:58,319 ninja warrior type really cool layout 2771 02:23:58,319 --> 02:24:03,110 concept for lakeside sports park 2772 02:24:03,120 --> 02:24:06,319 total 2.2 2 million. 2773 02:24:06,319 --> 02:24:09,840 Another slide with OCIP with those 2774 02:24:09,840 --> 02:24:12,080 projects. Major corridor 2775 02:24:12,080 --> 02:24:14,239 beautifification would be major streets 2776 02:24:14,239 --> 02:24:17,760 like University Parkway, State Street. 2777 02:24:17,760 --> 02:24:19,359 If businesses want to beautify their 2778 02:24:19,359 --> 02:24:22,160 frontage, they could 2779 02:24:22,160 --> 02:24:24,640 apply for a grant that this money would 2780 02:24:24,640 --> 02:24:27,359 go to pay for kind of like a carrot to 2781 02:24:27,359 --> 02:24:29,439 get them to incentivize them to beautify 2782 02:24:29,439 --> 02:24:31,600 their property and the city could pay a 2783 02:24:31,600 --> 02:24:35,279 certain percentage of reimbursement to 2784 02:24:35,279 --> 02:24:37,760 those properties. 2785 02:24:37,760 --> 02:24:40,560 Um, cemetery master plan projects for 2786 02:24:40,560 --> 02:24:43,359 500,000 would include the children's 2787 02:24:43,359 --> 02:24:45,600 memorial, cremation garden, and memorial 2788 02:24:45,600 --> 02:24:48,950 trail head. 2789 02:24:48,960 --> 02:24:52,000 This is just off the 2790 02:24:52,000 --> 02:24:55,520 Canal Trail on 800 East 2791 02:24:55,520 --> 02:24:57,040 there between the upper and lower 2792 02:24:57,040 --> 02:25:01,040 cemetery. It's a concept layout for a 2793 02:25:01,040 --> 02:25:03,680 memorial garden there with collecting 2794 02:25:03,680 --> 02:25:06,000 pond. 2795 02:25:06,000 --> 02:25:08,640 Nice access there from the cemetery and 2796 02:25:08,640 --> 02:25:10,399 from the 2797 02:25:10,399 --> 02:25:12,880 could also include a 2798 02:25:12,880 --> 02:25:19,030 right there. There's some 2799 02:25:19,040 --> 02:25:21,760 this item for 100,000 the police 2800 02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:27,510 training facility design services would 2801 02:25:27,520 --> 02:25:32,479 of the canyon at our gun range. 2802 02:25:32,479 --> 02:25:34,080 Um, I don't know if this has a pointer 2803 02:25:34,080 --> 02:25:38,239 on it, but on the left there, 2804 02:25:38,239 --> 02:25:40,160 see how the slope's been cut into the 2805 02:25:40,160 --> 02:25:42,000 mount side? They want to expand that 2806 02:25:42,000 --> 02:25:43,840 back. So, that short range, we could 2807 02:25:43,840 --> 02:25:47,439 extend that to increase that depth. Or 2808 02:25:47,439 --> 02:25:49,359 also on this this other side here where 2809 02:25:49,359 --> 02:25:50,960 that steep slope is, we could expand the 2810 02:25:50,960 --> 02:25:53,520 parking to a possible retaining wall 2811 02:25:53,520 --> 02:25:55,600 there. And then the picture on the right 2812 02:25:55,600 --> 02:25:57,359 shows the rifle range, which is 2813 02:25:57,359 --> 02:25:59,840 currently not being used. And there's an 2814 02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:03,200 option there to possibly drop that. And 2815 02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:04,640 similar to the left where they've cut 2816 02:26:04,640 --> 02:26:06,720 out of the slope, we could cut that down 2817 02:26:06,720 --> 02:26:10,160 and create a a safer backdrop for them 2818 02:26:10,160 --> 02:26:13,439 to shoot. And so that 100,000 would go 2819 02:26:13,439 --> 02:26:17,120 to a consultant to help us uh first 2820 02:26:17,120 --> 02:26:20,160 design service. 2821 02:26:20,160 --> 02:26:22,479 A public safety parking lot pedestrian 2822 02:26:22,479 --> 02:26:24,800 C,000. 2823 02:26:24,800 --> 02:26:28,640 This cost would be just forward the 2824 02:26:28,640 --> 02:26:30,640 crossing through the parking lot with 2825 02:26:30,640 --> 02:26:36,479 the the speed tables and safe safer 2826 02:26:36,479 --> 02:26:39,840 crosswalks, sidewalk improvements in 2827 02:26:39,840 --> 02:26:41,279 addition to the money we already have 2828 02:26:41,279 --> 02:26:46,790 for the wall 2829 02:26:46,800 --> 02:26:52,469 part of downtown phase one for 960,000. 2830 02:26:52,479 --> 02:26:54,239 Look at that. I don't know, Gary, you 2831 02:26:54,239 --> 02:26:55,680 have more on this or 2832 02:26:55,680 --> 02:26:57,680 >> Nope. You're familiar with downtown. 2833 02:26:57,680 --> 02:27:00,560 >> Okay. 2834 02:27:00,560 --> 02:27:03,680 >> Library Garden 125,000. 2835 02:27:03,680 --> 02:27:05,439 That'd be potentially the north side of 2836 02:27:05,439 --> 02:27:09,510 the library. 2837 02:27:09,520 --> 02:27:12,479 The park option there. 2838 02:27:12,479 --> 02:27:15,973 Fire station 33 remodel would include a 2839 02:27:15,973 --> 02:27:17,279 [clears throat] possible concept of 2840 02:27:17,279 --> 02:27:19,520 remodeling the kitchen. 2841 02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:21,520 some other costs there to restore fire 2842 02:27:21,520 --> 02:27:23,439 engine one, 2843 02:27:23,439 --> 02:27:26,080 some fire department equipment, and then 2844 02:27:26,080 --> 02:27:28,399 the council chambers audio visual for 2845 02:27:28,399 --> 02:27:30,880 100,000. 2846 02:27:30,880 --> 02:27:32,880 So, take that total with the other it 2847 02:27:32,880 --> 02:27:34,640 comes to the just over 5 million for 2848 02:27:34,640 --> 02:27:35,840 CIP. 2849 02:27:35,840 --> 02:27:37,200 >> You go back really quick. What was the 2850 02:27:37,200 --> 02:27:39,760 council chambers audio visual put on 2851 02:27:39,760 --> 02:27:41,439 there? 2852 02:27:41,439 --> 02:27:43,600 >> That's 100,000 to improve some equipment 2853 02:27:43,600 --> 02:27:47,830 here in the council chambers. 2854 02:27:47,840 --> 02:27:52,950 What needs 2855 02:27:52,960 --> 02:27:54,399 » Trevor? [laughter] 2856 02:27:54,399 --> 02:27:56,800 >> How much time do you have? 2857 02:27:56,800 --> 02:28:01,520 >> Um, view picture and picture and uh 2858 02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:04,160 on-site storage for the recordings as 2859 02:28:04,160 --> 02:28:06,160 well as the 2860 02:28:06,160 --> 02:28:07,680 ability to stream directly to YouTube 2861 02:28:07,680 --> 02:28:09,520 without having to have Zoom to Zoom to 2862 02:28:09,520 --> 02:28:13,920 do that. Um, and I think that 100,000 2863 02:28:13,920 --> 02:28:16,160 line include something that's actually 2864 02:28:16,160 --> 02:28:17,520 already funded through another project 2865 02:28:17,520 --> 02:28:19,920 for the um 2866 02:28:19,920 --> 02:28:29,269 to have Zoom. 2867 02:28:29,279 --> 02:28:33,120 Can we add a TV on the back wall? How 2868 02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:35,439 much are those? 2869 02:28:35,439 --> 02:28:38,000 >> When you question Yeah. Will it because 2870 02:28:38,000 --> 02:28:40,479 when you use half the room like we did 2871 02:28:40,479 --> 02:28:42,080 that for neighborhood commission once 2872 02:28:42,080 --> 02:28:45,120 and all the t people that were facing 2873 02:28:45,120 --> 02:28:46,479 the other way had to turn around to see 2874 02:28:46,479 --> 02:28:48,960 the TV. So you had one more back there 2875 02:28:48,960 --> 02:28:50,960 >> if if that's in the budget maybe. 2876 02:28:50,960 --> 02:28:55,110 >> Yes. 2877 02:28:55,120 --> 02:28:58,000 » You also have these on carts up in the 2878 02:28:58,000 --> 02:29:00,399 EOC that can be rolled down and you 2879 02:29:00,399 --> 02:29:03,359 those 2880 02:29:03,359 --> 02:29:06,080 >> one of those down. 2881 02:29:06,080 --> 02:29:16,710 So we have some wire for it. 2882 02:29:16,720 --> 02:29:19,200 » Building maintenance. Just one item. 2883 02:29:19,200 --> 02:29:22,160 Station two there on North Main Street. 2884 02:29:22,160 --> 02:29:25,680 50,000 per floor. and got cracking and 2885 02:29:25,680 --> 02:29:29,760 just replacing the epoxy coating there 2886 02:29:29,760 --> 02:29:34,630 for 2887 02:29:34,640 --> 02:29:37,120 » waterline projects. 2888 02:29:37,120 --> 02:29:40,160 2 million includes master plan projects. 2889 02:29:40,160 --> 02:29:41,760 Another couple other maintenance items 2890 02:29:41,760 --> 02:29:45,110 there 2891 02:29:45,120 --> 02:29:48,080 for sewer 500,000 for maintenance. 2892 02:29:48,080 --> 02:29:52,160 master plan 8 million and a half 2893 02:29:52,160 --> 02:29:56,640 and storm water.7 million 2894 02:29:56,640 --> 02:30:00,080 for streets. Uh this is our standard uh 2895 02:30:00,080 --> 02:30:03,279 yearly annual project. That's 115 2896 02:30:03,279 --> 02:30:04,960 million. 2897 02:30:04,960 --> 02:30:07,120 Got our slurry and crack seal with 2898 02:30:07,120 --> 02:30:10,630 microsurface 2899 02:30:10,640 --> 02:30:13,520 one half million memorial trail head 2900 02:30:13,520 --> 02:30:16,640 that would help to supplement the 2901 02:30:16,640 --> 02:30:19,600 funding for from this the CIP budget for 2902 02:30:19,600 --> 02:30:22,640 the the memorial trail head there at the 2903 02:30:22,640 --> 02:30:24,640 cemetery. 2904 02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:28,160 Then uh there are other similar accounts 2905 02:30:28,160 --> 02:30:31,520 for the proposed budget for trip hazard 2906 02:30:31,520 --> 02:30:36,000 miscellaneous street construction and ADA concrete projects that we do 2907 02:30:36,000 --> 02:30:40,389 every year. So 2908 02:30:40,399 --> 02:30:43,200 » one one quick clarification you're 2909 02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:46,160 showing the budgeted cash amount that 2910 02:30:46,160 --> 02:30:49,279 would go towards these projects but for 2911 02:30:49,279 --> 02:30:52,000 example with water sewer storm that 2912 02:30:52,000 --> 02:30:54,319 would be the cash portion. It would come 2913 02:30:54,319 --> 02:30:57,040 back to the council if there was 2914 02:30:57,040 --> 02:30:59,760 financing 2915 02:30:59,760 --> 02:31:05,269 the master plan. 2916 02:31:05,279 --> 02:31:08,720 » Yeah, we we went away from uh budgeting 2917 02:31:08,720 --> 02:31:11,359 the individual elements within that 2918 02:31:11,359 --> 02:31:15,040 master plan because what we found is 2919 02:31:15,040 --> 02:31:18,160 making a guess as to which things were 2920 02:31:18,160 --> 02:31:22,399 gonna happen when. And so rather than 2921 02:31:22,399 --> 02:31:24,479 just trying to put information in there 2922 02:31:24,479 --> 02:31:28,640 that ended up being not correct, uh it 2923 02:31:28,640 --> 02:31:30,239 was 2924 02:31:30,239 --> 02:31:32,479 uh more conducive just to put here's how 2925 02:31:32,479 --> 02:31:34,880 much is available towards all those pro 2926 02:31:34,880 --> 02:31:36,800 any project that's identified within the 2927 02:31:36,800 --> 02:31:42,479 B and then to your point B um that may 2928 02:31:42,479 --> 02:31:44,800 not cover the entire cost of a 2929 02:31:44,800 --> 02:31:47,600 particular project that may require 2930 02:31:47,600 --> 02:31:50,160 bonding or some other financing element 2931 02:31:50,160 --> 02:31:52,800 But that would be determined at the time 2932 02:31:52,800 --> 02:31:57,439 that particular project was going to 2933 02:31:57,439 --> 02:31:59,120 >> Yeah, we would bring if it was 2934 02:31:59,120 --> 02:32:00,640 financing, we'd bring it back to the 2935 02:32:00,640 --> 02:32:08,950 council for an official decision. 2936 02:32:08,960 --> 02:32:11,760 » That was it for CIP. So, any questions? 2937 02:32:11,760 --> 02:32:14,640 >> Council, any questions? 2938 02:32:14,640 --> 02:32:17,439 >> Tagert. Tagert. Uh, these look like 2939 02:32:17,439 --> 02:32:19,520 great projects. um appreciate you 2940 02:32:19,520 --> 02:32:23,359 bringing them to us. Excited uh for 2941 02:32:23,359 --> 02:32:25,359 those capital improvements. I'm just 2942 02:32:25,359 --> 02:32:26,960 curious in your deliberations, I know 2943 02:32:26,960 --> 02:32:29,040 this is a citywide effort, but in the 2944 02:32:29,040 --> 02:32:30,800 deliberations, what are some of the 2945 02:32:30,800 --> 02:32:32,800 things that 2946 02:32:32,800 --> 02:32:36,160 >> uh we would like to fund, but we felt 2947 02:32:36,160 --> 02:32:38,640 like were not um our highest priorities 2948 02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:39,840 this year that didn't make it on your 2949 02:32:39,840 --> 02:32:43,359 list that we have an interest in trying 2950 02:32:43,359 --> 02:32:45,600 to continue to fund either next year or 2951 02:32:45,600 --> 02:32:47,680 through other sources. 2952 02:32:47,680 --> 02:32:50,160 the projects. 2953 02:32:50,160 --> 02:32:53,359 Uh many of these projects come through 2954 02:32:53,359 --> 02:32:56,239 public works 2955 02:32:56,239 --> 02:32:58,000 provide that service for them helping 2956 02:32:58,000 --> 02:33:00,880 them to manage these projects bid them 2957 02:33:00,880 --> 02:33:04,720 out. So many of the parks, a lot of 2958 02:33:04,720 --> 02:33:06,399 these were parks projects, you'll you'll 2959 02:33:06,399 --> 02:33:08,000 notice and so we're working closely with 2960 02:33:08,000 --> 02:33:10,560 Tyler Hay 2961 02:33:10,560 --> 02:33:12,960 and so I know they're always trying to 2962 02:33:12,960 --> 02:33:15,760 improve parks with buildings, 2963 02:33:15,760 --> 02:33:18,000 uh, playgrounds. 2964 02:33:18,000 --> 02:33:19,760 You might be more familiar with that to 2965 02:33:19,760 --> 02:33:22,399 answer that question, Chris. But 2966 02:33:22,399 --> 02:33:25,120 >> I would also say I' I'd highlight, you 2967 02:33:25,120 --> 02:33:27,600 notice some of those things says it was 2968 02:33:27,600 --> 02:33:30,319 for design, for example, improving the 2969 02:33:30,319 --> 02:33:32,080 gun range and then adding maybe some 2970 02:33:32,080 --> 02:33:34,399 training components. Tiger's talking 2971 02:33:34,399 --> 02:33:36,640 about with our our parks, we can do 2972 02:33:36,640 --> 02:33:40,239 some, but there's we can always do more. 2973 02:33:40,239 --> 02:33:43,120 So, uh, Bryce, you can maybe speak to 2974 02:33:43,120 --> 02:33:46,479 future plans in in that you see coming 2975 02:33:46,479 --> 02:33:49,760 down the road in the near future related 2976 02:33:49,760 --> 02:33:52,880 really probably more big parks. 2977 02:33:52,880 --> 02:33:55,680 >> Yeah, I think what Ty said is exactly 2978 02:33:55,680 --> 02:33:58,239 right. We sometimes also have to get the 2979 02:33:58,239 --> 02:34:00,720 design uh impact built out first so then 2980 02:34:00,720 --> 02:34:02,239 we can go and pursue grants and other 2981 02:34:02,239 --> 02:34:04,720 funding sources. Um, and so we have to 2982 02:34:04,720 --> 02:34:06,319 come to y'all with maybe the total price 2983 02:34:06,319 --> 02:34:08,640 tag and then it does take a year or two 2984 02:34:08,640 --> 02:34:10,880 or three to get it to the most optimized 2985 02:34:10,880 --> 02:34:12,960 spot. Um, maybe something like Lakeside, 2986 02:34:12,960 --> 02:34:15,760 we showed a playground and that feels 2987 02:34:15,760 --> 02:34:16,960 really like the direction we want to 2988 02:34:16,960 --> 02:34:18,720 move right now, but there are a number 2989 02:34:18,720 --> 02:34:21,120 of ongoing uh issues that would have to 2990 02:34:21,120 --> 02:34:22,720 be resolved first. Sometimes those can 2991 02:34:22,720 --> 02:34:24,960 change our projects. And so I think 2992 02:34:24,960 --> 02:34:26,160 point too of we don't want to or 2993 02:34:26,160 --> 02:34:27,680 Brandon's point of we don't want to show 2994 02:34:27,680 --> 02:34:29,520 you something and then it does get 2995 02:34:29,520 --> 02:34:30,640 changed, but that is definitely part of 2996 02:34:30,640 --> 02:34:31,920 what we do. And so I think a lot of the 2997 02:34:31,920 --> 02:34:34,560 times relying on our master plans uh for 2998 02:34:34,560 --> 02:34:37,120 parks and wreck, using those building 2999 02:34:37,120 --> 02:34:40,080 out a CIP, reading the room on what the 3000 02:34:40,080 --> 02:34:41,520 financial year is like or what the 3001 02:34:41,520 --> 02:34:43,279 opportunity uh year is like, you know, 3002 02:34:43,279 --> 02:34:45,200 maybe for other county funds or state 3003 02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:47,040 funds, federal funds, and then trying to 3004 02:34:47,040 --> 02:34:49,439 piece it all together. So the the plan 3005 02:34:49,439 --> 02:34:51,359 is always what happens first, the master 3006 02:34:51,359 --> 02:34:53,439 plan. Uh and then we tried to piece 3007 02:34:53,439 --> 02:34:56,399 those together. Tyler and I and Chris uh 3008 02:34:56,399 --> 02:34:58,160 work together closely on sort of a five, 3009 02:34:58,160 --> 02:35:02,560 seven, 10year plan. Um, and we have like 3010 02:35:02,560 --> 02:35:04,000 some things have a very specific order, 3011 02:35:04,000 --> 02:35:06,000 but a lot of them have a okay, of these 3012 02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:07,279 three or four things, one or two of 3013 02:35:07,279 --> 02:35:08,560 these is going to make sense in the next 3014 02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:10,640 18 20 to 24 months. Let's be ready on 3015 02:35:10,640 --> 02:35:12,720 several and then we can plug them in as 3016 02:35:12,720 --> 02:35:14,319 we go. And so I think, you know, 3017 02:35:14,319 --> 02:35:18,080 Lakeside, we had a responsibility for 3018 02:35:18,080 --> 02:35:19,760 certain amounts of spending so that we 3019 02:35:19,760 --> 02:35:21,520 could get matching funds. And so that 3020 02:35:21,520 --> 02:35:23,840 prioritizes a couple of things there. Uh 3021 02:35:23,840 --> 02:35:27,840 maybe a CDBG grant that comes through Heather Cox and the strategy and 3022 02:35:27,840 --> 02:35:29,439 innovation team. all of a sudden we get 3023 02:35:29,439 --> 02:35:30,800 money there. We need to accelerate 3024 02:35:30,800 --> 02:35:32,880 something like that. So to that point 3025 02:35:32,880 --> 02:35:35,120 there's oh we'd love to do all of it now 3026 02:35:35,120 --> 02:35:37,600 yesterday but a lot of it really is 3027 02:35:37,600 --> 02:35:39,680 being ready with a broad plan and then 3028 02:35:39,680 --> 02:35:41,600 trying to fit them in in a way that 3029 02:35:41,600 --> 02:35:44,479 makes sense for us. 3030 02:35:44,479 --> 02:35:46,160 If that's the case of of the things that 3031 02:35:46,160 --> 02:35:48,560 we saw today how many of them do you 3032 02:35:48,560 --> 02:35:50,239 anticipate we will complete in the next 3033 02:35:50,239 --> 02:35:51,840 fiscal 3034 02:35:51,840 --> 02:35:53,600 >> complete as in residents are playing on 3035 02:35:53,600 --> 02:35:55,520 the new thing? 3036 02:35:55,520 --> 02:35:57,760 Um, what do you think Leninia is going 3037 02:35:57,760 --> 02:35:58,880 to look like this fall in our 3038 02:35:58,880 --> 02:36:02,479 construction period? Um, 3039 02:36:02,479 --> 02:36:03,760 >> seeing it catching a third. 3040 02:36:03,760 --> 02:36:06,080 >> Yeah. 3041 02:36:06,080 --> 02:36:08,000 It that might that might feel about 3042 02:36:08,000 --> 02:36:10,000 right. I if the money comes in, then we 3043 02:36:10,000 --> 02:36:12,239 work with designers. We take the designs 3044 02:36:12,239 --> 02:36:13,920 for a playground to the public. We get 3045 02:36:13,920 --> 02:36:16,640 their feedback and look to see can we 3046 02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:17,760 get it in in the fall construction 3047 02:36:17,760 --> 02:36:20,319 period or the spring and then go from 3048 02:36:20,319 --> 02:36:23,680 there. the the phase 3 bike park at 3049 02:36:23,680 --> 02:36:25,520 Mount Tibonogus that we're going to 3050 02:36:25,520 --> 02:36:27,920 celebrate the opening of this summer. I 3051 02:36:27,920 --> 02:36:29,760 want to say it was fiscal year 25. So 3052 02:36:29,760 --> 02:36:31,840 two years ago that it got approved went 3053 02:36:31,840 --> 02:36:33,680 to design work from the construction 3054 02:36:33,680 --> 02:36:36,080 period that made sense put it in. People 3055 02:36:36,080 --> 02:36:39,120 will be biking on it this fall. 3056 02:36:39,120 --> 02:36:41,359 >> A lot of what we saw is going to be a 3057 02:36:41,359 --> 02:36:44,319 three year plus time horizon, but there 3058 02:36:44,319 --> 02:36:45,920 are a few things in there that we think 3059 02:36:45,920 --> 02:36:47,600 we'll see in the next year. 3060 02:36:47,600 --> 02:36:50,000 >> I mean the the dugouts 3061 02:36:50,000 --> 02:36:52,479 would have probably done some of those, 3062 02:36:52,479 --> 02:36:54,720 if you will, smaller type items. Those 3063 02:36:54,720 --> 02:36:57,040 are certainly kind of intended to be 3064 02:36:57,040 --> 02:36:59,120 done in the current within the current 3065 02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:01,600 fiscal year. Many of the larger dollar 3066 02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:03,600 items obviously have a longer time 3067 02:37:03,600 --> 02:37:06,239 horizon. Windsor Park is an example 3068 02:37:06,239 --> 02:37:08,399 where we had a couple of major projects. 3069 02:37:08,399 --> 02:37:10,319 While we are disrupting the park and we 3070 02:37:10,319 --> 02:37:12,000 have large machinery and people can't 3071 02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:13,520 really use it, can we go ahead and get 3072 02:37:13,520 --> 02:37:14,960 in the other two things that we might 3073 02:37:14,960 --> 02:37:16,160 need in the next couple years so we're 3074 02:37:16,160 --> 02:37:17,920 not constantly ripping up a portion of a 3075 02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:19,920 park? So, 3076 02:37:19,920 --> 02:37:22,160 Uh that maybe why we're a little couchy 3077 02:37:22,160 --> 02:37:24,880 about committing to something. Exactly. 3078 02:37:24,880 --> 02:37:26,560 Because there is some opportunity cost 3079 02:37:26,560 --> 02:37:27,760 of just trying to get them all done at 3080 02:37:27,760 --> 02:37:30,000 the same time or or get something all 3081 02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:31,359 the way to completion then we can move 3082 02:37:31,359 --> 02:37:33,920 to another part of of of the city. I 3083 02:37:33,920 --> 02:37:37,760 mean during the process we we 3084 02:37:37,760 --> 02:37:40,080 everybody submits through the capital 3085 02:37:40,080 --> 02:37:41,840 our capital projects and we evaluate 3086 02:37:41,840 --> 02:37:43,279 those and come back to them when we have 3087 02:37:43,279 --> 02:37:46,960 their meetings and there's you know some 3088 02:37:46,960 --> 02:37:48,960 force trading going on right say well we 3089 02:37:48,960 --> 02:37:50,560 don't have enough money for that well is 3090 02:37:50,560 --> 02:37:52,160 there something else that you would 3091 02:37:52,160 --> 02:37:55,439 rather do to get done now and we can put 3092 02:37:55,439 --> 02:37:57,600 some money away to be able to start the 3093 02:37:57,600 --> 02:38:00,000 process of saving towards getting that 3094 02:38:00,000 --> 02:38:02,239 particular thing done. So there's a bit 3095 02:38:02,239 --> 02:38:04,880 of that that goes on and think of 3096 02:38:04,880 --> 02:38:06,479 anything off the top of my head, but I 3097 02:38:06,479 --> 02:38:08,560 knew I know that we do that. 3098 02:38:08,560 --> 02:38:11,359 >> Thanks for having a thorough process. 3099 02:38:11,359 --> 02:38:15,359 >> Or another example could be to's point 3100 02:38:15,359 --> 02:38:18,800 about sources of funding. Uh as you 3101 02:38:18,800 --> 02:38:20,720 know, it took us a little bit longer to 3102 02:38:20,720 --> 02:38:27,279 get uh full approval for a federal grant related to our fire 3103 02:38:27,279 --> 02:38:29,680 training facility. And so now that we've 3104 02:38:29,680 --> 02:38:31,600 got that sort of signed on the dotted 3105 02:38:31,600 --> 02:38:33,359 line by President Trump, that then 3106 02:38:33,359 --> 02:38:36,319 allows us to expedite potential uh 3107 02:38:36,319 --> 02:38:40,000 rebuild of um fighter station one for 3108 02:38:40,000 --> 02:38:45,120 example. So so to some extent it it 3109 02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:46,960 boils down to what's the funding source 3110 02:38:46,960 --> 02:38:49,359 to get these done. Um Chris, you can 3111 02:38:49,359 --> 02:38:50,960 maybe also speak to 3112 02:38:50,960 --> 02:38:52,000 >> Right. So 3113 02:38:52,000 --> 02:38:53,840 >> cemetery master planning too. 3114 02:38:53,840 --> 02:38:55,600 >> Oh, in response to your question about 3115 02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:57,439 what what's on the horizon that's not 3116 02:38:57,439 --> 02:38:59,120 identified here, we [clears throat] have 3117 02:38:59,120 --> 02:39:01,520 about $250 million of work to happen at 3118 02:39:01,520 --> 02:39:03,680 the warm water reclamation facility. 3119 02:39:03,680 --> 02:39:05,359 We're going to be um issuing 3120 02:39:05,359 --> 02:39:07,600 approximately a $70 million bond for the 3121 02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:10,000 first phase that'll start working the 3122 02:39:10,000 --> 02:39:12,800 next year. In the next 15 years, we'll 3123 02:39:12,800 --> 02:39:15,120 do three more $70 million bonds just for 3124 02:39:15,120 --> 02:39:16,880 that facility. 3125 02:39:16,880 --> 02:39:18,720 We have about $4 million that we're 3126 02:39:18,720 --> 02:39:20,880 looking at uh spending on streets right 3127 02:39:20,880 --> 02:39:22,560 now that are going to be failing in the 3128 02:39:22,560 --> 02:39:24,800 projected near future. That's pending 3129 02:39:24,800 --> 02:39:27,760 the tough um adoption, but that's part 3130 02:39:27,760 --> 02:39:29,520 of our presentation tonight as well. And 3131 02:39:29,520 --> 02:39:32,000 we have two $5 million builds that'll be 3132 02:39:32,000 --> 02:39:33,600 under construction in the next two to 3133 02:39:33,600 --> 02:39:35,439 three years as well. So, those are our 3134 02:39:35,439 --> 02:39:37,359 big ones on the on the horizon for for 3135 02:39:37,359 --> 02:39:38,479 public works. 3136 02:39:38,479 --> 02:39:40,717 >> And and you all thought was expensive. 3137 02:39:40,717 --> 02:39:41,680 [laughter] 3138 02:39:41,680 --> 02:39:43,279 >> Still 3139 02:39:43,279 --> 02:39:45,920 fire. party. I love my bathroom and my 3140 02:39:45,920 --> 02:39:47,680 running water and [laughter] 3141 02:39:47,680 --> 02:39:49,760 >> I'll take that over every day. 3142 02:39:49,760 --> 02:39:51,200 >> Yes. 3143 02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:56,710 >> As much water as you 3144 02:39:56,720 --> 02:40:01,359 » and I just want to highlight with the cemetery master plan. We've been 3145 02:40:01,359 --> 02:40:04,880 looking at cremation niche 3146 02:40:04,880 --> 02:40:06,479 head and you know the children's 3147 02:40:06,479 --> 02:40:09,359 memorial for quite some time. We have 3148 02:40:09,359 --> 02:40:11,680 looked at both our historical revenues 3149 02:40:11,680 --> 02:40:15,120 there and projected revenues from the 3150 02:40:15,120 --> 02:40:19,040 use of a cremation garden uh to and that 3151 02:40:19,040 --> 02:40:20,672 proposed budget there anticipates 3152 02:40:20,672 --> 02:40:22,239 [clears throat] 3153 02:40:22,239 --> 02:40:25,600 500,000 being available 3154 02:40:25,600 --> 02:40:28,560 every year to to cover those expenses. 3155 02:40:28,560 --> 02:40:30,399 And then the the trail head portion will 3156 02:40:30,399 --> 02:40:32,479 be covered by the funding source that 3157 02:40:32,479 --> 02:40:35,279 comes from um 3158 02:40:35,279 --> 02:40:40,000 fifth fifth sales tax that was adopted 3159 02:40:40,000 --> 02:40:43,750 a few years ago. 3160 02:40:43,760 --> 02:40:45,200 Right. Any other questions? That was a 3161 02:40:45,200 --> 02:40:47,840 good question. 3162 02:40:47,840 --> 02:40:51,040 Great. Thank you. Thank presentation. 3163 02:40:51,040 --> 02:40:53,600 We'll move on to the next item. Item 1.4 3164 02:40:53,600 --> 02:40:55,279 is a presentation. It's actually a 3165 02:40:55,279 --> 02:41:00,000 continuation of our care 3166 02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:03,439 um allocation deliberations and I'll 3167 02:41:03,439 --> 02:41:06,000 turn the time over to Brandon Nelson, 3168 02:41:06,000 --> 02:41:09,600 our finance director. 3169 02:41:09,600 --> 02:41:11,680 Um and really this this particular 3170 02:41:11,680 --> 02:41:15,359 component is uh just was asked that we 3171 02:41:15,359 --> 02:41:17,040 uh come back with to give you an 3172 02:41:17,040 --> 02:41:19,760 opportunity after having seen uh the 3173 02:41:19,760 --> 02:41:23,040 exhibit to come back with uh 3174 02:41:23,040 --> 02:41:25,439 conversation amongst yourselves and 3175 02:41:25,439 --> 02:41:28,160 deliberation on potentially the items 3176 02:41:28,160 --> 02:41:30,640 that were as part of that exhibit. Um 3177 02:41:30,640 --> 02:41:33,279 and so we really just want to get um 3178 02:41:33,279 --> 02:41:35,600 your discussion about that any of the 3179 02:41:35,600 --> 02:41:37,840 items on there. All right, before we get 3180 02:41:37,840 --> 02:41:40,640 started on that, I don't know. Quinn and 3181 02:41:40,640 --> 02:41:42,319 Jenna, are you both on the care? 3182 02:41:42,319 --> 02:41:43,120 >> Yeah. 3183 02:41:43,120 --> 02:41:45,520 >> Would you mind just take and I can't 3184 02:41:45,520 --> 02:41:47,040 forgive me if I've already asked you to 3185 02:41:47,040 --> 02:41:48,080 do this and you did it the last week, 3186 02:41:48,080 --> 02:41:50,560 but refresh my memory. Would you mind 3187 02:41:50,560 --> 02:41:52,319 explaining just talking about the 3188 02:41:52,319 --> 02:41:56,000 deliberation process and maybe just give 3189 02:41:56,000 --> 02:41:59,200 some insights as to the in how the how 3190 02:41:59,200 --> 02:42:01,760 the care the commission came to the 3191 02:42:01,760 --> 02:42:05,359 decisions that they did with funding and 3192 02:42:05,359 --> 02:42:06,479 not funding just 3193 02:42:06,479 --> 02:42:08,800 >> yeah I can start if you want 3194 02:42:08,800 --> 02:42:11,680 >> great please jump in chat 3195 02:42:11,680 --> 02:42:13,279 >> thank you 3196 02:42:13,279 --> 02:42:16,080 >> so um there are a couple of components 3197 02:42:16,080 --> 02:42:18,399 to this and I'm new to this so I'm I've 3198 02:42:18,399 --> 02:42:19,600 been learning and asking lots of 3199 02:42:19,600 --> 02:42:21,920 questions along the way. Uh we do have a 3200 02:42:21,920 --> 02:42:23,680 care tax advisory commission that's 3201 02:42:23,680 --> 02:42:26,720 composed of five uh residents. 3202 02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:29,760 Um they meet primarily to hear 3203 02:42:29,760 --> 02:42:32,800 presentations for arts grants that are 3204 02:42:32,800 --> 02:42:36,319 in the small grants category and for 3205 02:42:36,319 --> 02:42:38,080 several nights. Jeff Jeff was recently 3206 02:42:38,080 --> 02:42:40,239 on this as well for several nights in 3207 02:42:40,239 --> 02:42:41,840 March. 3208 02:42:41,840 --> 02:42:44,000 That commission is in this room uh 3209 02:42:44,000 --> 02:42:46,800 hearing presentation after presentation 3210 02:42:46,800 --> 02:42:51,359 of of different groups um and 3211 02:42:51,359 --> 02:42:53,120 often providing them with partial 3212 02:42:53,120 --> 02:42:56,479 funding and making uh calculations as to 3213 02:42:56,479 --> 02:42:59,680 how do we take the value that they 3214 02:42:59,680 --> 02:43:01,920 provide for their community 3215 02:43:01,920 --> 02:43:03,680 uh and 3216 02:43:03,680 --> 02:43:04,960 um 3217 02:43:04,960 --> 02:43:06,640 >> that's right there. match that with the 3218 02:43:06,640 --> 02:43:08,640 resources that we have available to 3219 02:43:08,640 --> 02:43:11,359 provide for our small arts grants and 3220 02:43:11,359 --> 02:43:15,600 they make u collective decisions about 3221 02:43:15,600 --> 02:43:17,040 uh the number that they want to award 3222 02:43:17,040 --> 02:43:19,120 those. So if if you go up to the rand 3223 02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:21,199 and just go up to the the small grants 3224 02:43:21,199 --> 02:43:24,000 right mid many mid- major grants they 3225 02:43:24,000 --> 02:43:26,479 ended up with $143,000 3226 02:43:26,479 --> 02:43:29,040 uh that were allocated across those 3227 02:43:29,040 --> 02:43:31,840 grants. I would say that uh the majority 3228 02:43:31,840 --> 02:43:34,560 of applicants received some money money 3229 02:43:34,560 --> 02:43:36,640 uh but a small minority received all the 3230 02:43:36,640 --> 02:43:39,120 money that they wanted. So much of that 3231 02:43:39,120 --> 02:43:41,840 deliberation is how can we allocate 3232 02:43:41,840 --> 02:43:44,960 scarce resources to a lot of deserving 3233 02:43:44,960 --> 02:43:47,040 institutions that that that for me is 3234 02:43:47,040 --> 02:43:49,120 the first time being part of that that 3235 02:43:49,120 --> 02:43:51,199 was really insightful and revealing to 3236 02:43:51,199 --> 02:43:52,720 see how many great things we have in the 3237 02:43:52,720 --> 02:43:54,640 city and I've had a chance to attend 3238 02:43:54,640 --> 02:43:57,279 some of the performances from those 3239 02:43:57,279 --> 02:43:58,800 groups. 3240 02:43:58,800 --> 02:44:01,199 um since then and I'm glad that we're 3241 02:44:01,199 --> 02:44:03,040 able to provide them with some funding. 3242 02:44:03,040 --> 02:44:05,600 >> So you did a and I just was with I'm 3243 02:44:05,600 --> 02:44:08,800 looking at at Jen's there was a rubric. 3244 02:44:08,800 --> 02:44:10,880 Was this the first year rubric was was 3245 02:44:10,880 --> 02:44:15,040 done to and so the Okay, so could you 3246 02:44:15,040 --> 02:44:17,520 Jen or elaborate a little bit on 3247 02:44:17,520 --> 02:44:22,319 >> Yeah, happy to. Um I we discussed it and probably peppered Brandon and Trevor 3248 02:44:22,319 --> 02:44:23,439 with more questions than they knew what 3249 02:44:23,439 --> 02:44:24,800 to do with and they were so patient with 3250 02:44:24,800 --> 02:44:27,520 us. But um just wanted to see you know 3251 02:44:27,520 --> 02:44:28,880 how are how are these decisions being 3252 02:44:28,880 --> 02:44:30,239 made? What are the criteria being made? 3253 02:44:30,239 --> 02:44:32,160 Are we all on the same page? So uh 3254 02:44:32,160 --> 02:44:34,960 Trevor helped us create a rubric or so 3255 02:44:34,960 --> 02:44:36,640 that we could evaluate apples to apples 3256 02:44:36,640 --> 02:44:39,840 sort of sort of thing. So for example, 3257 02:44:39,840 --> 02:44:41,520 what is the community need and purpose? 3258 02:44:41,520 --> 02:44:43,439 Um is their need clearly defined? Is the 3259 02:44:43,439 --> 02:44:44,880 target population specific and 3260 02:44:44,880 --> 02:44:47,199 appropriate? Uh how are the funds going 3261 02:44:47,199 --> 02:44:48,960 to be used? Is it is is are the funds 3262 02:44:48,960 --> 02:44:50,399 tied to a specific activity? What is 3263 02:44:50,399 --> 02:44:53,359 that activity? Um are they uh looking 3264 02:44:53,359 --> 02:44:54,880 for funds other places as well? are we 3265 02:44:54,880 --> 02:44:56,080 the only source of funding? How 3266 02:44:56,080 --> 02:44:57,199 successful are they going to be? Those 3267 02:44:57,199 --> 02:45:00,080 kinds of questions. Um, and our our uh 3268 02:45:00,080 --> 02:45:01,680 commission did a really good job. They 3269 02:45:01,680 --> 02:45:04,399 had the rubrics open real time as they 3270 02:45:04,399 --> 02:45:06,000 were uh presenters were presenting and 3271 02:45:06,000 --> 02:45:08,000 they could fill in their scores and at 3272 02:45:08,000 --> 02:45:10,720 the end they could compare uh how they 3273 02:45:10,720 --> 02:45:12,239 ranked everybody versus everybody else 3274 02:45:12,239 --> 02:45:13,359 and it was a pretty straightforward 3275 02:45:13,359 --> 02:45:15,359 process and our commission did an 3276 02:45:15,359 --> 02:45:17,520 excellent job at being partial but 3277 02:45:17,520 --> 02:45:20,000 really thoughtful about the process. So, 3278 02:45:20,000 --> 02:45:21,840 it was really fun, I think, for for us 3279 02:45:21,840 --> 02:45:23,920 as well, just to see the the amount of 3280 02:45:23,920 --> 02:45:25,680 good being done in our community through 3281 02:45:25,680 --> 02:45:27,199 these organizations. And you just were 3282 02:45:27,199 --> 02:45:28,399 like, I wish we had money for all of 3283 02:45:28,399 --> 02:45:30,080 you, for all of the things, but I think 3284 02:45:30,080 --> 02:45:31,760 they made good judicious decisions that 3285 02:45:31,760 --> 02:45:34,800 will bring the most benefit to ORM. 3286 02:45:34,800 --> 02:45:36,319 >> Council, I don't think you saw the big 3287 02:45:36,319 --> 02:45:40,479 smile that went on Trevor's face when 3288 02:45:40,479 --> 02:45:43,840 >> the assignment of making a rubric, 3289 02:45:43,840 --> 02:45:47,040 >> Trevor, thank you. You did a great job. 3290 02:45:47,040 --> 02:45:49,040 >> It wasn't just the rubric. The magic 3291 02:45:49,040 --> 02:45:50,160 that none of us could believe that 3292 02:45:50,160 --> 02:45:52,560 Forever pulled off was this. 3293 02:45:52,560 --> 02:45:55,920 >> Uh we all had a spreadsheet. Jen and I 3294 02:45:55,920 --> 02:45:57,439 were not voting members, but we all had 3295 02:45:57,439 --> 02:45:59,279 a spreadsheet 3296 02:45:59,279 --> 02:46:01,439 uh where people could put in the amount 3297 02:46:01,439 --> 02:46:02,960 of money that they thought that they 3298 02:46:02,960 --> 02:46:04,720 wanted to give to that organization and 3299 02:46:04,720 --> 02:46:07,760 then it immediately populated uh the 3300 02:46:07,760 --> 02:46:09,359 master spreadsheet so we could discuss 3301 02:46:09,359 --> 02:46:12,479 that and see what everyone thought. 3302 02:46:12,479 --> 02:46:15,120 Really a very efficient process. So, so 3303 02:46:15,120 --> 02:46:16,800 the numbers that we see here for these 3304 02:46:16,800 --> 02:46:18,319 different 3305 02:46:18,319 --> 02:46:20,319 uh was there a lot of tweaking after was 3306 02:46:20,319 --> 02:46:22,319 there a lot of discussion after or as 3307 02:46:22,319 --> 02:46:24,560 you went through it was there a general 3308 02:46:24,560 --> 02:46:27,840 consensus I I've I've taken part not in 3309 02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:29,279 the care but in other type and other 3310 02:46:29,279 --> 02:46:32,080 types of grants I know that there's a 3311 02:46:32,080 --> 02:46:34,000 usually a point where you start and then 3312 02:46:34,000 --> 02:46:37,120 you tweak is that 3313 02:46:37,120 --> 02:46:38,880 >> lots of twe lots of tweaking 3314 02:46:38,880 --> 02:46:39,680 >> lots of tweaking 3315 02:46:39,680 --> 02:46:41,439 >> yeah I think that the rubric scores gave 3316 02:46:41,439 --> 02:46:43,359 us like a baseline and then then the 3317 02:46:43,359 --> 02:46:44,960 outliers were ones that there was some 3318 02:46:44,960 --> 02:46:47,760 significant about and why or why not. 3319 02:46:47,760 --> 02:46:48,000 So, 3320 02:46:48,000 --> 02:46:49,840 >> okay. Particularly when you had a 3321 02:46:49,840 --> 02:46:52,319 rubric, maybe the score was a 10 and you 3322 02:46:52,319 --> 02:46:55,040 had somebody else with a 20. And so then 3323 02:46:55,040 --> 02:46:56,560 you we there would be a lot of 3324 02:46:56,560 --> 02:46:59,359 discussion about so why did you go with 3325 02:46:59,359 --> 02:47:01,359 a why did you rank them so low and why 3326 02:47:01,359 --> 02:47:03,600 did you rank them? So the discuss group 3327 02:47:03,600 --> 02:47:05,600 why did you rank them so high and then 3328 02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:07,279 there was a lot of discussion and 3329 02:47:07,279 --> 02:47:11,199 deliberation on appreciate the 3330 02:47:11,199 --> 02:47:12,479 >> can I speak for that? 3331 02:47:12,479 --> 02:47:14,479 >> So I have a friend who's on the care 3332 02:47:14,479 --> 02:47:16,000 commission a recent friend. She hasn't 3333 02:47:16,000 --> 02:47:16,960 been my friend for very long, but 3334 02:47:16,960 --> 02:47:19,760 anyway. Um um and I was just curious 3335 02:47:19,760 --> 02:47:21,520 because I served with Jeff when we were 3336 02:47:21,520 --> 02:47:23,680 residents on the care commission for six 3337 02:47:23,680 --> 02:47:24,160 years. 3338 02:47:24,160 --> 02:47:25,120 >> Yeah. 3339 02:47:25,120 --> 02:47:26,720 >> Before both of us jumped into this 3340 02:47:26,720 --> 02:47:30,239 position. And um really fun talking to 3341 02:47:30,239 --> 02:47:33,439 her and finding out how, you know, these 3342 02:47:33,439 --> 02:47:36,720 um uh rubrics and things had worked and 3343 02:47:36,720 --> 02:47:39,680 the the the cohesion of the group and 3344 02:47:39,680 --> 02:47:41,199 some of the things you've talked about. 3345 02:47:41,199 --> 02:47:44,239 Very positive very positive feedback. um 3346 02:47:44,239 --> 02:47:47,600 so much so that I had Trevor send me the 3347 02:47:47,600 --> 02:47:49,760 you know what you guys did the new forms 3348 02:47:49,760 --> 02:47:51,600 and stuff and I love all of it. I think 3349 02:47:51,600 --> 02:47:53,359 it's been really good. There's a couple 3350 02:47:53,359 --> 02:47:55,760 things that see she suggested that I 3351 02:47:55,760 --> 02:47:58,080 might suggest too if you don't mind if I 3352 02:47:58,080 --> 02:47:59,840 take a second are we ready to go on 3353 02:47:59,840 --> 02:48:01,840 council? Okay. Any questions about how 3354 02:48:01,840 --> 02:48:04,160 the how this was? 3355 02:48:04,160 --> 02:48:06,239 >> Can I just add one another thing? So 3356 02:48:06,239 --> 02:48:09,840 this is the the small arts grants but we 3357 02:48:09,840 --> 02:48:12,160 also have mid major grants right. So 3358 02:48:12,160 --> 02:48:14,720 Sarah is the big one there. So 3359 02:48:14,720 --> 02:48:16,479 separately aside from the care 3360 02:48:16,479 --> 02:48:19,279 commission, Brandon and Jen and I and 3361 02:48:19,279 --> 02:48:23,439 Trevor and Bryce huddled u and reviewed 3362 02:48:23,439 --> 02:48:25,840 the Sarah proposal and the Metropolitan 3363 02:48:25,840 --> 02:48:30,880 Valley proposal as well. Um and we were 3364 02:48:30,880 --> 02:48:32,640 able to award the Sarah their full award 3365 02:48:32,640 --> 02:48:34,160 this year even though it was 3366 02:48:34,160 --> 02:48:37,040 considerably larger than last year. And 3367 02:48:37,040 --> 02:48:39,760 then uh the wreck proposal, capital 3368 02:48:39,760 --> 02:48:43,120 improvement, and some of the other um 3369 02:48:43,120 --> 02:48:47,040 arts arts proposals uh came from from 3370 02:48:47,040 --> 02:48:50,479 staff uh and we had a chance to discuss 3371 02:48:50,479 --> 02:48:52,560 those. Bryce had some really innovative 3372 02:48:52,560 --> 02:48:56,319 ideas this year uh around an honorarium 3373 02:48:56,319 --> 02:48:59,439 program and uh artist writer and 3374 02:48:59,439 --> 02:49:01,520 residence program and other 3375 02:49:01,520 --> 02:49:04,000 >> the yellow can we talk about the what is 3376 02:49:04,000 --> 02:49:06,399 the honorarium and the artist writers 3377 02:49:06,399 --> 02:49:08,880 and residents and artist 3378 02:49:08,880 --> 02:49:11,120 >> sure len did you want to talk about 3379 02:49:11,120 --> 02:49:12,640 >> yeah no I can wait I thought this was 3380 02:49:12,640 --> 02:49:14,479 holding into what you were saying but I 3381 02:49:14,479 --> 02:49:16,239 can wait and add this at the very end 3382 02:49:16,239 --> 02:49:19,680 that's comp this is whatever yeah that's 3383 02:49:19,680 --> 02:49:21,600 fine 3384 02:49:21,600 --> 02:49:22,640 I don't know. Bryce, do you want to 3385 02:49:22,640 --> 02:49:24,800 speak to those or Brandon? 3386 02:49:24,800 --> 02:49:26,479 >> If if that's what y'all would like, I'd 3387 02:49:26,479 --> 02:49:29,600 be happy. We we had submitted several 3388 02:49:29,600 --> 02:49:32,319 recreation has traditionally all uh not 3389 02:49:32,319 --> 02:49:34,960 always. Previously, we had submitted the 3390 02:49:34,960 --> 02:49:36,880 recreation programs again part of the 3391 02:49:36,880 --> 02:49:39,680 CIP process master plan uh directly to 3392 02:49:39,680 --> 02:49:43,199 our council liaison. And over the last 3393 02:49:43,199 --> 02:49:45,680 few years with my dual role in 3394 02:49:45,680 --> 02:49:48,000 recreation and library, some of these 3395 02:49:48,000 --> 02:49:49,840 other civic-reated arts ones would 3396 02:49:49,840 --> 02:49:52,000 bounce back and forth with Pete Wolfley 3397 02:49:52,000 --> 02:49:53,840 and his work with the arts commission 3398 02:49:53,840 --> 02:49:56,479 and I. And so that's where we would take 3399 02:49:56,479 --> 02:49:58,880 a couple of these uh civic related art 3400 02:49:58,880 --> 02:50:01,680 ones and have our staff write them up. 3401 02:50:01,680 --> 02:50:04,080 Um so specifically on the civic related 3402 02:50:04,080 --> 02:50:05,840 one, heart of downtown I think we're all 3403 02:50:05,840 --> 02:50:06,960 pretty familiar with and there will be a 3404 02:50:06,960 --> 02:50:08,720 number of art components to it. I don't 3405 02:50:08,720 --> 02:50:10,239 think Gary there's no shovel ready 3406 02:50:10,239 --> 02:50:11,760 product projects that we're doing on 3407 02:50:11,760 --> 02:50:13,840 that. This is so that we have an art 3408 02:50:13,840 --> 02:50:15,439 baseline budget for when we approach 3409 02:50:15,439 --> 02:50:17,439 that portion. Uh number two is the 3410 02:50:17,439 --> 02:50:19,199 library hall city facilities. This will 3411 02:50:19,199 --> 02:50:22,080 be the second year that we will have 3412 02:50:22,080 --> 02:50:24,000 done this in it in its entirety. 3413 02:50:24,000 --> 02:50:26,560 Historically they the a care group would 3414 02:50:26,560 --> 02:50:28,479 get their grant but they couldn't afford 3415 02:50:28,479 --> 02:50:30,560 to do their art anywhere. And so we 3416 02:50:30,560 --> 02:50:32,479 said, what if we can cover those direct 3417 02:50:32,479 --> 02:50:35,359 costs through a one lump sum and then 3418 02:50:35,359 --> 02:50:37,359 our staff instead of being the bearers 3419 02:50:37,359 --> 02:50:38,560 of bad news of, oh, this is actually 3420 02:50:38,560 --> 02:50:40,560 what it takes to put on a show can then 3421 02:50:40,560 --> 02:50:42,239 reach out to every group that receives a 3422 02:50:42,239 --> 02:50:44,239 care grant and say, we can do a free 3423 02:50:44,239 --> 02:50:45,840 show for you as part of your 3424 02:50:45,840 --> 02:50:47,840 performance. And so that was our effort 3425 02:50:47,840 --> 02:50:49,279 to make sure that the art that was being 3426 02:50:49,279 --> 02:50:50,880 performed and learned was then being 3427 02:50:50,880 --> 02:50:53,520 delivered to audiences through Library 3428 02:50:53,520 --> 02:50:56,560 Hall. Um, and so that's what that um 3429 02:50:56,560 --> 02:50:58,319 facilities rental group is there for. 3430 02:50:58,319 --> 02:51:00,960 And so this last year uh 20 plus shows 3431 02:51:00,960 --> 02:51:02,720 at library hall made possible through 3432 02:51:02,720 --> 02:51:06,160 that library hall uh care grant. Next is 3433 02:51:06,160 --> 02:51:08,239 the honorarium program and this is a 3434 02:51:08,239 --> 02:51:10,960 little bit an extension of that. Uh our 3435 02:51:10,960 --> 02:51:14,319 arts commission, our events commission, 3436 02:51:14,319 --> 02:51:17,199 our library commission all have need of 3437 02:51:17,199 --> 02:51:19,600 bringing in artistic groups to perform 3438 02:51:19,600 --> 02:51:23,680 to show uh to uh be at farmers market 3439 02:51:23,680 --> 02:51:25,359 and be the music on the stage. maybe 3440 02:51:25,359 --> 02:51:27,279 they are part of a program and there is 3441 02:51:27,279 --> 02:51:29,840 often a fee associated with that. We 3442 02:51:29,840 --> 02:51:32,960 thought by having this set aside fund um 3443 02:51:32,960 --> 02:51:34,880 we would be able to have different staff 3444 02:51:34,880 --> 02:51:37,840 groups tap into those funds to then hire 3445 02:51:37,840 --> 02:51:40,239 uh care groups or future potential care 3446 02:51:40,239 --> 02:51:42,160 groups to come in and perform and we 3447 02:51:42,160 --> 02:51:44,479 could pay a small stipend uh anywhere 3448 02:51:44,479 --> 02:51:46,960 from $250 to $750 depending on the type 3449 02:51:46,960 --> 02:51:48,960 of art, the uh number of performances, 3450 02:51:48,960 --> 02:51:50,640 everything like that. Uh we were really 3451 02:51:50,640 --> 02:51:52,080 excited about the honorarium program 3452 02:51:52,080 --> 02:51:54,880 because in many ways if they in fact if 3453 02:51:54,880 --> 02:51:56,399 a group were to approach us right now 3454 02:51:56,399 --> 02:51:57,840 today to say we would love to be care 3455 02:51:57,840 --> 02:51:59,520 we'd have to say great check back in 3456 02:51:59,520 --> 02:52:01,040 with us in 12 months and that's a bit of 3457 02:52:01,040 --> 02:52:03,279 a bummer answer. Now we can say don't 3458 02:52:03,279 --> 02:52:04,800 miss the application deadline next 3459 02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:06,960 spring also we'd love to get you on this 3460 02:52:06,960 --> 02:52:09,120 list and we can bring you out and so uh 3461 02:52:09,120 --> 02:52:10,960 we can get some money to some of these 3462 02:52:10,960 --> 02:52:12,640 groups earlier and throughout the year 3463 02:52:12,640 --> 02:52:14,319 without having to wait for a once a year 3464 02:52:14,319 --> 02:52:16,640 March set of meetings to be able to have 3465 02:52:16,640 --> 02:52:18,160 some of those funds. And so that's what 3466 02:52:18,160 --> 02:52:21,520 the honorarium uh will be used for. Um 3467 02:52:21,520 --> 02:52:24,399 uh performers in the parade, farmers 3468 02:52:24,399 --> 02:52:28,479 market, uh concert series. Um it it's 3469 02:52:28,479 --> 02:52:31,359 pretty broad right now and uh both the 3470 02:52:31,359 --> 02:52:33,359 library events and arts commissions will 3471 02:52:33,359 --> 02:52:35,920 be involved with soliciting, selecting, 3472 02:52:35,920 --> 02:52:37,439 choosing who might be able to receive 3473 02:52:37,439 --> 02:52:38,560 those amounts. 3474 02:52:38,560 --> 02:52:42,479 >> Is concert series um is that the live 3475 02:52:42,479 --> 02:52:45,840 rock concert? No, that's a that's a 3476 02:52:45,840 --> 02:52:47,600 separate group with them. That's going 3477 02:52:47,600 --> 02:52:48,560 to be different then. 3478 02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:50,640 >> That will be a standalone event, not 3479 02:52:50,640 --> 02:52:52,720 part of an existing city event. 3480 02:52:52,720 --> 02:52:54,080 >> Okay. 3481 02:52:54,080 --> 02:52:56,160 >> Yeah. This would be more like uh on uh 3482 02:52:56,160 --> 02:52:58,000 is it tomorrow when the farmers market 3483 02:52:58,000 --> 02:53:01,040 kicks off? There's always art um music 3484 02:53:01,040 --> 02:53:02,960 being played. Now, we'd be able to say, 3485 02:53:02,960 --> 02:53:04,720 "Hey, apply." And also, if you're 3486 02:53:04,720 --> 02:53:06,000 selected, you would be able to receive 3487 02:53:06,000 --> 02:53:07,520 this amount of an honorarium for 3488 02:53:07,520 --> 02:53:08,479 performing, 3489 02:53:08,479 --> 02:53:11,199 >> the birthday cake and all that other. 3490 02:53:11,199 --> 02:53:13,600 >> All right. Next is the artist and writer 3491 02:53:13,600 --> 02:53:15,120 and residence. And this idea actually 3492 02:53:15,120 --> 02:53:17,279 came from the city council retreat. Um, 3493 02:53:17,279 --> 02:53:18,880 council member Mikum had brought that 3494 02:53:18,880 --> 02:53:20,160 up. I think council member Lansson, you 3495 02:53:20,160 --> 02:53:21,120 had mentioned something about a poet 3496 02:53:21,120 --> 02:53:23,520 laurette. And so the goal here was to 3497 02:53:23,520 --> 02:53:26,000 say how do we design a program or put 3498 02:53:26,000 --> 02:53:28,479 parameters to a program that would meet 3499 02:53:28,479 --> 02:53:31,520 those goals and also give us a little 3500 02:53:31,520 --> 02:53:34,399 bit of a beta test on something like 3501 02:53:34,399 --> 02:53:36,239 this. you know, it's it's a really new 3502 02:53:36,239 --> 02:53:38,640 program and we had a lot of questions as 3503 02:53:38,640 --> 02:53:40,479 staff and so we went and researched what 3504 02:53:40,479 --> 02:53:42,239 had been done in other areas, 3505 02:53:42,239 --> 02:53:44,800 universities, municipalities to say, how 3506 02:53:44,800 --> 02:53:46,080 would you bring in an artist and write 3507 02:53:46,080 --> 02:53:48,080 on residence? How would you define the 3508 02:53:48,080 --> 02:53:50,960 value of the art being in which is such 3509 02:53:50,960 --> 02:53:52,720 a crude question to like put a monetary 3510 02:53:52,720 --> 02:53:55,279 value to art? Uh, but that's the job. 3511 02:53:55,279 --> 02:53:58,399 And so to say, how do we bring in these 3512 02:53:58,399 --> 02:53:59,840 folks? What kind of programming would 3513 02:53:59,840 --> 02:54:01,760 they do? How would they interact with 3514 02:54:01,760 --> 02:54:03,439 our residents? How do we create that? 3515 02:54:03,439 --> 02:54:06,479 And this was our best attempt as staff 3516 02:54:06,479 --> 02:54:09,279 to put a number to something like that. 3517 02:54:09,279 --> 02:54:11,920 Um, in fact, number 47 and 48 originally 3518 02:54:11,920 --> 02:54:14,000 were put in as a single one, but the 3519 02:54:14,000 --> 02:54:15,680 career advancement grants for the artist 3520 02:54:15,680 --> 02:54:17,600 was actually an effort as part of this 3521 02:54:17,600 --> 02:54:20,479 idea of writers to bring in and have a 3522 02:54:20,479 --> 02:54:22,160 scholarship for graduating seniors from 3523 02:54:22,160 --> 02:54:23,840 each of our local high schools that 3524 02:54:23,840 --> 02:54:25,680 would be a part of this. So, similar to 3525 02:54:25,680 --> 02:54:27,520 maybe like a Miss Orum structure where 3526 02:54:27,520 --> 02:54:29,920 rising seniors can receive some funds, 3527 02:54:29,920 --> 02:54:31,439 but they're tied to this program. And 3528 02:54:31,439 --> 02:54:34,880 then we have um the professional or um 3529 02:54:34,880 --> 02:54:36,399 other resident programs that could all 3530 02:54:36,399 --> 02:54:38,080 be part of the writing. Uh the goal was 3531 02:54:38,080 --> 02:54:40,000 to put those together. So uh that was 3532 02:54:40,000 --> 02:54:42,880 the goal with 47 and 48 is grant funds 3533 02:54:42,880 --> 02:54:44,800 available to bring in artists and 3534 02:54:44,800 --> 02:54:46,960 writers. I think uh the submittal we did 3535 02:54:46,960 --> 02:54:48,720 had two separate ones. One was an artist 3536 02:54:48,720 --> 02:54:50,720 and residence and one was a writer and 3537 02:54:50,720 --> 02:54:52,479 residence. So the uh artists could be 3538 02:54:52,479 --> 02:54:54,479 much broader. Um we saw a lot of cities 3539 02:54:54,479 --> 02:54:56,399 do like a muralist and residence. Um, 3540 02:54:56,399 --> 02:54:58,319 and their goal is to come in, immerse 3541 02:54:58,319 --> 02:55:00,239 themselves in the city, learn about us, 3542 02:55:00,239 --> 02:55:02,080 and then they leave having produced a 3543 02:55:02,080 --> 02:55:04,640 mural that reflects their time and uh, 3544 02:55:04,640 --> 02:55:07,439 time spent with us. The the writer in 3545 02:55:07,439 --> 02:55:09,600 residence would again be very broad. It 3546 02:55:09,600 --> 02:55:12,560 could still be poetry or short story or 3547 02:55:12,560 --> 02:55:15,040 literature or whatever you want. And so 3548 02:55:15,040 --> 02:55:17,279 the artistic outcomes would be broader 3549 02:55:17,279 --> 02:55:19,120 to reflect the different styles of 3550 02:55:19,120 --> 02:55:23,760 writing and go from there. Are there 3551 02:55:23,760 --> 02:55:25,680 parameters on what those artists or 3552 02:55:25,680 --> 02:55:27,520 writers 3553 02:55:27,520 --> 02:55:30,800 how they apply for that? 3554 02:55:30,800 --> 02:55:33,279 I guess let me back up. My my concern 3555 02:55:33,279 --> 02:55:40,640 with putting tax money towards that is this is ORM tax money and it should 3556 02:55:40,640 --> 02:55:43,359 directly 3557 02:55:43,359 --> 02:55:48,160 benefit or help ORM residents. And so 3558 02:55:48,160 --> 02:55:50,479 I would want to see those artists or 3559 02:55:50,479 --> 02:55:54,479 writers local talent that we are helping 3560 02:55:54,479 --> 02:55:58,080 to promote local people, not necessarily 3561 02:55:58,080 --> 02:55:59,439 bring people in. And that's something 3562 02:55:59,439 --> 02:56:00,800 that we didn't really get a chance to 3563 02:56:00,800 --> 02:56:05,600 discuss at um the retreat. Um, but 3564 02:56:05,600 --> 02:56:07,760 especially because this is tax money 3565 02:56:07,760 --> 02:56:10,800 being spent, that's something that 3566 02:56:10,800 --> 02:56:14,880 I I just want to make sure that it's 3567 02:56:14,880 --> 02:56:17,359 forum focused. 3568 02:56:17,359 --> 02:56:18,800 One of the reasons I think we wanted to 3569 02:56:18,800 --> 02:56:22,800 test it was we looked at the way some of 3570 02:56:22,800 --> 02:56:25,680 these grants up above operate and are we 3571 02:56:25,680 --> 02:56:27,120 creating opportunities for people to 3572 02:56:27,120 --> 02:56:29,040 participate in art but then perform 3573 02:56:29,040 --> 02:56:30,800 elsewhere in the valley or are we 3574 02:56:30,800 --> 02:56:34,080 creating spectator opportunities for art 3575 02:56:34,080 --> 02:56:35,680 to go and sit in auditorium and receive 3576 02:56:35,680 --> 02:56:37,920 the art and so when I look at you know 3577 02:56:37,920 --> 02:56:40,319 going to a show you know you bring in 3578 02:56:40,319 --> 02:56:42,160 talent and I'm trying to think who was 3579 02:56:42,160 --> 02:56:44,560 the big finale the commodors was that 3580 02:56:44,560 --> 02:56:45,279 our 3581 02:56:45,279 --> 02:56:47,439 >> oh yeah summer obviously not from here 3582 02:56:47,439 --> 02:56:49,439 but the the artistic value is that we as 3583 02:56:49,439 --> 02:56:50,880 residents get to go and watch and 3584 02:56:50,880 --> 02:56:53,279 partake of it and so we had that exact 3585 02:56:53,279 --> 02:56:55,279 same question to say what is the value 3586 02:56:55,279 --> 02:56:57,359 we're creating is it an opportunity for 3587 02:56:57,359 --> 02:56:59,600 an or resident to create and produce and 3588 02:56:59,600 --> 02:57:01,600 go out with their art or is the 3589 02:57:01,600 --> 02:57:04,319 opportunity for us to receive and then 3590 02:57:04,319 --> 02:57:06,160 how do we quantify that how do we to 3591 02:57:06,160 --> 02:57:07,760 your point ensure that there's value 3592 02:57:07,760 --> 02:57:09,840 here so the model we looked at was the 3593 02:57:09,840 --> 02:57:12,239 Utah humanities uh through I the Utah 3594 02:57:12,239 --> 02:57:15,760 state uh department of museum people in 3595 02:57:15,760 --> 02:57:17,600 culture. They had a program that was 3596 02:57:17,600 --> 02:57:18,960 very similar to this. So, we wrote a lot 3597 02:57:18,960 --> 02:57:20,880 of it based off of that. The other thing 3598 02:57:20,880 --> 02:57:23,920 I would say, council member, is I don't 3599 02:57:23,920 --> 02:57:26,640 think I I would say our staff wanted to 3600 02:57:26,640 --> 02:57:28,479 write the structure and skeleton of 3601 02:57:28,479 --> 02:57:31,680 this. I don't think we want Bryce to be 3602 02:57:31,680 --> 02:57:33,920 like I choose them. You know, I think 3603 02:57:33,920 --> 02:57:35,840 that's where we say let's is this the 3604 02:57:35,840 --> 02:57:37,359 art commission? We we've written a 3605 02:57:37,359 --> 02:57:38,720 structure out of what this program could 3606 02:57:38,720 --> 02:57:41,199 look like. How do we engage the art 3607 02:57:41,199 --> 02:57:43,279 commission or library commission to say 3608 02:57:43,279 --> 02:57:45,199 let's now build a really specific rubric 3609 02:57:45,199 --> 02:57:48,560 an application timeline um an amount of 3610 02:57:48,560 --> 02:57:50,399 u you know we set aside this amount as 3611 02:57:50,399 --> 02:57:53,279 our budget do we like those numbers do 3612 02:57:53,279 --> 02:57:55,840 we want to do two people across 30,000 3613 02:57:55,840 --> 02:57:58,080 or do you want 30 micro artist and 3614 02:57:58,080 --> 02:57:59,760 residents and it it would look very 3615 02:57:59,760 --> 02:58:02,399 different I think that would be really 3616 02:58:02,399 --> 02:58:04,160 worth exploring in the first year of a 3617 02:58:04,160 --> 02:58:05,520 program like this if y'all wanted to 3618 02:58:05,520 --> 02:58:06,479 move forward with it 3619 02:58:06,479 --> 02:58:08,399 >> yeah I agree with Crystal I don't know 3620 02:58:08,399 --> 02:58:09,520 are you 3621 02:58:09,520 --> 02:58:11,520 I agree with Crystal. I feel like, you 3622 02:58:11,520 --> 02:58:14,319 know, one of the thing the care monies, 3623 02:58:14,319 --> 02:58:16,960 the care tax when I was on the 3624 02:58:16,960 --> 02:58:18,880 commission and the whole time I've been 3625 02:58:18,880 --> 02:58:22,160 on the council has been about um ORM 3626 02:58:22,160 --> 02:58:27,199 residents being in these groups or andor 3627 02:58:27,199 --> 02:58:30,880 touch points to ORM residents. Um, you 3628 02:58:30,880 --> 02:58:32,239 know, like the Sierra, the reason the 3629 02:58:32,239 --> 02:58:34,720 Sierra gets so much money is they, you 3630 02:58:34,720 --> 02:58:37,199 know, how many people do they touch and 3631 02:58:37,199 --> 02:58:39,840 how many opportunities to experience the 3632 02:58:39,840 --> 02:58:42,800 arts that they provide. So, that's why 3633 02:58:42,800 --> 02:58:45,199 they have that amount of money and do 3634 02:58:45,199 --> 02:58:49,760 such a fabulous job. So, um, two things 3635 02:58:49,760 --> 02:58:52,399 with this. I would definitely want it to 3636 02:58:52,399 --> 02:58:55,520 be Oram writers. I would not want to go 3637 02:58:55,520 --> 02:58:58,000 outside and bring someone in. I feel 3638 02:58:58,000 --> 02:59:01,279 like we need to reward if we did this 3639 02:59:01,279 --> 02:59:05,040 reward local talent. I actually have a 3640 02:59:05,040 --> 02:59:07,840 friend who has a writer's group. She 3641 02:59:07,840 --> 02:59:09,199 asked me if they could get a free room 3642 02:59:09,199 --> 02:59:11,840 here to read every month, right? And but 3643 02:59:11,840 --> 02:59:14,000 so I'm guessing there are a lot of those 3644 02:59:14,000 --> 02:59:15,439 that talent. There's a lot of that 3645 02:59:15,439 --> 02:59:17,120 talent around here that maybe we could 3646 02:59:17,120 --> 02:59:19,199 give them a spotlight just like the 3647 02:59:19,199 --> 02:59:21,840 gentleman who did the um the art 3648 02:59:21,840 --> 02:59:25,600 exhibit. went to that read that um the 3649 02:59:25,600 --> 02:59:27,840 Honey Bake Ham Guy Mark. 3650 02:59:27,840 --> 02:59:29,359 >> That was amazing. I'd never seen 3651 02:59:29,359 --> 02:59:30,960 anything like it and that was super fun 3652 02:59:30,960 --> 02:59:34,720 to see those artists get their rewards. 3653 02:59:34,720 --> 02:59:37,439 >> Um so that would that would to me would 3654 02:59:37,439 --> 02:59:42,479 be a a caveat that would stay within the the 3655 02:59:42,479 --> 02:59:45,040 heart and the theme of our care tax, 3656 02:59:45,040 --> 02:59:46,880 what our residents pass the care tax 3657 02:59:46,880 --> 02:59:49,199 for. You know, I feel like um I would 3658 02:59:49,199 --> 02:59:51,600 just if it's we're using taxpayer 3659 02:59:51,600 --> 02:59:54,319 dollars for this. It is an art form, but 3660 02:59:54,319 --> 02:59:59,520 we would want to definitely have forum 3661 02:59:59,520 --> 03:00:01,920 residents getting that 3662 03:00:01,920 --> 03:00:02,640 thought on that 3663 03:00:02,640 --> 03:00:05,840 >> and I'm going to very respectfully 3664 03:00:05,840 --> 03:00:09,279 disagree somewhat because I was on the 3665 03:00:09,279 --> 03:00:11,680 city council when we when we put this 3666 03:00:11,680 --> 03:00:13,120 together and we had this exact same 3667 03:00:13,120 --> 03:00:15,439 discussion. We want to have ORM 3668 03:00:15,439 --> 03:00:17,680 residents. We want to encourage Orm 3669 03:00:17,680 --> 03:00:19,359 residents in this case to be the writer 3670 03:00:19,359 --> 03:00:21,680 or the artist. I'm I'm just not 3671 03:00:21,680 --> 03:00:23,600 comfortable requiring it because I'm 3672 03:00:23,600 --> 03:00:25,680 somebody, you know, if you want if you 3673 03:00:25,680 --> 03:00:28,160 want or resident to write, I can write I 3674 03:00:28,160 --> 03:00:30,880 can write a me limmerick and or or 3675 03:00:30,880 --> 03:00:32,239 something like that. And I realize we 3676 03:00:32,239 --> 03:00:34,560 have some amazing talent in our in our 3677 03:00:34,560 --> 03:00:38,239 community. I'm just [gasps] I'm just not 3678 03:00:38,239 --> 03:00:39,760 comfortable even though I realize it's 3679 03:00:39,760 --> 03:00:42,000 taxpayer money. I I'm viewing it from 3680 03:00:42,000 --> 03:00:44,319 somebody who who goes and appreciates 3681 03:00:44,319 --> 03:00:46,560 our like Mr. dattle here. He does not 3682 03:00:46,560 --> 03:00:50,239 live in Orum. I appreciate his art and I 3683 03:00:50,239 --> 03:00:51,760 don't know what I I'm sure that didn't 3684 03:00:51,760 --> 03:00:53,680 come from Ketch, but I'm just saying is 3685 03:00:53,680 --> 03:00:55,279 that touch point that you talked about. 3686 03:00:55,279 --> 03:01:00,479 I I get the I get the uh I appreciate 3687 03:01:00,479 --> 03:01:02,560 the art, but I understand what you're 3688 03:01:02,560 --> 03:01:05,680 saying, but I just am concerned about 3689 03:01:05,680 --> 03:01:07,680 requiring that it be there. may be 3690 03:01:07,680 --> 03:01:10,560 saying that we prefer a preference to 3691 03:01:10,560 --> 03:01:12,319 this and but I would like to leave it up 3692 03:01:12,319 --> 03:01:15,359 to the arts council and the library 3693 03:01:15,359 --> 03:01:17,040 commission or wherever wherever this 3694 03:01:17,040 --> 03:01:20,399 resides to to help make that with giving 3695 03:01:20,399 --> 03:01:22,399 them that instruction. 3696 03:01:22,399 --> 03:01:24,800 >> Can I add another perspective to that? 3697 03:01:24,800 --> 03:01:28,720 So if you have a writer I I'm lived in 3698 03:01:28,720 --> 03:01:30,000 this world. I was in the publishing 3699 03:01:30,000 --> 03:01:33,040 world for years. You can you can have a 3700 03:01:33,040 --> 03:01:36,239 writer that 3701 03:01:36,239 --> 03:01:40,479 people may or may not know and you might 3702 03:01:40,479 --> 03:01:42,160 have 10 people that will show up. So 3703 03:01:42,160 --> 03:01:44,720 your touch point there is 10 people. But 3704 03:01:44,720 --> 03:01:46,720 you have another writer that comes that 3705 03:01:46,720 --> 03:01:48,640 everybody knows. 3706 03:01:48,640 --> 03:01:50,319 That person is able to connect with 3707 03:01:50,319 --> 03:01:52,720 hundreds of people and help hundreds of 3708 03:01:52,720 --> 03:01:56,239 people inspired in their writing because 3709 03:01:56,239 --> 03:01:58,479 of who they are and their experience and 3710 03:01:58,479 --> 03:02:00,239 what they've, you know, with what 3711 03:02:00,239 --> 03:02:02,160 they've done with their with their 3712 03:02:02,160 --> 03:02:06,560 writing. Um, so 3713 03:02:06,560 --> 03:02:08,720 I I guess I would agree that that that 3714 03:02:08,720 --> 03:02:09,920 would be a good decision for the arts 3715 03:02:09,920 --> 03:02:11,120 commission to come up with that. You 3716 03:02:11,120 --> 03:02:12,560 know, how do we want to go about doing 3717 03:02:12,560 --> 03:02:13,760 this? And I'm comfortable with both 3718 03:02:13,760 --> 03:02:15,520 ways. I mean I agree and I I remember 3719 03:02:15,520 --> 03:02:19,680 also about keeping money in Orum but 3720 03:02:19,680 --> 03:02:21,520 another perspective to that might be we 3721 03:02:21,520 --> 03:02:24,160 might be able to expand that net 3722 03:02:24,160 --> 03:02:25,680 depending on what the goal is. The goal 3723 03:02:25,680 --> 03:02:28,319 is to inspire more writers. We might be 3724 03:02:28,319 --> 03:02:31,040 able to do that if we had a person name 3725 03:02:31,040 --> 03:02:32,479 that comes to my head, Stephen C. He's 3726 03:02:32,479 --> 03:02:35,840 not around anymore, but if we had and 3727 03:02:35,840 --> 03:02:37,120 he would charge a lot of money, so 3728 03:02:37,120 --> 03:02:39,040 that's out of the ballpark, but there 3729 03:02:39,040 --> 03:02:41,439 are writers that I think that would come 3730 03:02:41,439 --> 03:02:44,239 that we could pack library hall 3731 03:02:44,239 --> 03:02:47,120 >> like Beth Brower with her resident. We 3732 03:02:47,120 --> 03:02:49,040 got and so that's 3733 03:02:49,040 --> 03:02:50,399 >> Yes, that's my point. I didn't mean to 3734 03:02:50,399 --> 03:02:52,479 say I don't did I say requirement. I I 3735 03:02:52,479 --> 03:02:54,479 guess I meant preference 3736 03:02:54,479 --> 03:02:57,199 >> to ORM because when it was described at 3737 03:02:57,199 --> 03:02:59,600 the retreat, it was we get someone not 3738 03:02:59,600 --> 03:03:00,880 from ORM 3739 03:03:00,880 --> 03:03:02,720 >> and to me I was kind of like I'd kind of 3740 03:03:02,720 --> 03:03:04,960 like to try maybe if we exhaust all of 3741 03:03:04,960 --> 03:03:07,040 the ORM opportunities. 3742 03:03:07,040 --> 03:03:08,080 >> Absolutely. 3743 03:03:08,080 --> 03:03:12,560 >> We could I I'm not to where this um so 3744 03:03:12,560 --> 03:03:14,399 yeah, that's where I am. But can I add 3745 03:03:14,399 --> 03:03:15,600 one more little I'm sorry I'm going to 3746 03:03:15,600 --> 03:03:18,160 kind of be a little disagreeable here. 3747 03:03:18,160 --> 03:03:21,359 Um, we already have I just rolled off 3748 03:03:21,359 --> 03:03:23,920 the arts commission and we have still 3749 03:03:23,920 --> 03:03:27,840 not funded our sidewalk art, 3750 03:03:27,840 --> 03:03:32,399 uh, crosswalk art and our utility box 3751 03:03:32,399 --> 03:03:34,080 um, art. 3752 03:03:34,080 --> 03:03:36,239 >> So, I feel like this probably needs to 3753 03:03:36,239 --> 03:03:39,680 wait until that which has already come 3754 03:03:39,680 --> 03:03:40,960 before our arts commission, been 3755 03:03:40,960 --> 03:03:44,960 approved. We've seen approved um, audit 3756 03:03:44,960 --> 03:03:48,000 designs. I mean, Pete's not here, is he? 3757 03:03:48,000 --> 03:03:51,040 Um, so those are things that perhap I 3758 03:03:51,040 --> 03:03:52,640 don't know how they didn't get, you 3759 03:03:52,640 --> 03:03:53,920 know, maybe we should have discussed 3760 03:03:53,920 --> 03:03:55,760 this before it actually went on a a 3761 03:03:55,760 --> 03:03:58,640 budget thing, but um, those have already 3762 03:03:58,640 --> 03:04:00,880 been approved by our arts commission and 3763 03:04:00,880 --> 03:04:02,479 should, in my opinion, should be funded 3764 03:04:02,479 --> 03:04:04,319 first. 3765 03:04:04,319 --> 03:04:06,399 >> That's a great question for for Pete. I 3766 03:04:06,399 --> 03:04:06,720 think 3767 03:04:06,720 --> 03:04:08,399 >> not that's not disagreeable. That's just 3768 03:04:08,399 --> 03:04:10,399 clarification. 3769 03:04:10,399 --> 03:04:11,760 >> And I know there was a couple technical 3770 03:04:11,760 --> 03:04:12,880 issues. We're not allowed to do 3771 03:04:12,880 --> 03:04:15,520 sidewalks currently per uh Department of 3772 03:04:15,520 --> 03:04:17,840 Transportation regulations. Chris, 3773 03:04:17,840 --> 03:04:19,600 >> we just had one painted on First North 3774 03:04:19,600 --> 03:04:20,800 though, so I'm not quite sure. 3775 03:04:20,800 --> 03:04:22,080 >> Okay, so 3776 03:04:22,080 --> 03:04:24,000 >> that was 3777 03:04:24,000 --> 03:04:25,279 stuff going on. 3778 03:04:25,279 --> 03:04:28,160 >> We can figure out the crosswalk 3779 03:04:28,160 --> 03:04:30,080 >> and I I know I know we have funding 3780 03:04:30,080 --> 03:04:32,720 currently for utility boxes that is set 3781 03:04:32,720 --> 03:04:34,560 aside. So I I not on the arts 3782 03:04:34,560 --> 03:04:36,160 commission. I just know that that fund 3783 03:04:36,160 --> 03:04:38,160 is funded and there ready to go. So, I'm 3784 03:04:38,160 --> 03:04:40,000 sure somewhere between design and 3785 03:04:40,000 --> 03:04:42,080 contractor, we're just looking to 3786 03:04:42,080 --> 03:04:43,279 finalize those ones 3787 03:04:43,279 --> 03:04:46,160 >> and and if there's 3788 03:04:46,160 --> 03:04:48,880 we don't have enough funds, we will use 3789 03:04:48,880 --> 03:04:52,880 our utility funds. 3790 03:04:52,880 --> 03:04:55,199 I wanted to get [laughter] 3791 03:04:55,199 --> 03:04:57,439 >> you doing what? 3792 03:04:57,439 --> 03:04:59,439 >> And council member Bill, if I may, 3793 03:04:59,439 --> 03:05:05,590 >> if we pass the t if we pass the tough, 3794 03:05:05,600 --> 03:05:08,720 » nice try sneaking that one in. 3795 03:05:08,720 --> 03:05:11,199 >> I I guess I would I would end on I think 3796 03:05:11,199 --> 03:05:14,399 you and I are really really aligned and 3797 03:05:14,399 --> 03:05:17,520 I love what our council members and and 3798 03:05:17,520 --> 03:05:19,199 staff did to build a rubric for 3799 03:05:19,199 --> 03:05:22,800 selecting. I think having a and again 3800 03:05:22,800 --> 03:05:24,720 not all art fits into a rubric and I 3801 03:05:24,720 --> 03:05:26,479 don't want to turn art into a science 3802 03:05:26,479 --> 03:05:29,359 but is there a way for us to report back 3803 03:05:29,359 --> 03:05:31,359 what would success look like or failure 3804 03:05:31,359 --> 03:05:33,120 look like on an artist and residence 3805 03:05:33,120 --> 03:05:35,199 program or an honorarium program to say 3806 03:05:35,199 --> 03:05:37,199 we spent this money and we got four 3807 03:05:37,199 --> 03:05:39,040 people to show up and we got a a note in 3808 03:05:39,040 --> 03:05:41,040 the forward of a book. It's like was 3809 03:05:41,040 --> 03:05:43,600 that worth it or not? I'm glad I'm not 3810 03:05:43,600 --> 03:05:45,199 the one doing this and y'all are the 3811 03:05:45,199 --> 03:05:47,760 ones doing this, but it would be 3812 03:05:47,760 --> 03:05:50,239 interesting for us to report back how 3813 03:05:50,239 --> 03:05:52,319 was what was the impact either 3814 03:05:52,319 --> 03:05:54,960 participatory or community experience of 3815 03:05:54,960 --> 03:05:57,120 a particular project. So when we get 3816 03:05:57,120 --> 03:05:59,279 back here, I can give y'all a lot better 3817 03:05:59,279 --> 03:06:01,920 info to say do we like it or not or you 3818 03:06:01,920 --> 03:06:02,239 know 3819 03:06:02,239 --> 03:06:04,880 >> Yeah. Because comparatively $30,000 is a 3820 03:06:04,880 --> 03:06:06,479 lot of money compared to what these 3821 03:06:06,479 --> 03:06:08,640 other performing groups are getting, 3822 03:06:08,640 --> 03:06:11,520 >> right? So hopefully we will get a lot 3823 03:06:11,520 --> 03:06:13,760 for that. Um or we can structure it to 3824 03:06:13,760 --> 03:06:20,469 where we have a lot of touch points. 3825 03:06:20,479 --> 03:06:20,960 » I guess 3826 03:06:20,960 --> 03:06:22,319 >> yeah. Can I I think you might have 3827 03:06:22,319 --> 03:06:23,600 something too. Did you want to go first? 3828 03:06:23,600 --> 03:06:25,840 >> It's short. I I just was going to add my 3829 03:06:25,840 --> 03:06:27,359 voice to what Jeff said. And I think and 3830 03:06:27,359 --> 03:06:29,439 having been an artist myself in college, 3831 03:06:29,439 --> 03:06:32,239 not vocal artists, but um I I love the 3832 03:06:32,239 --> 03:06:33,600 idea that we can have a master class, 3833 03:06:33,600 --> 03:06:34,960 bring someone else from the outside in 3834 03:06:34,960 --> 03:06:36,560 to give a master class to our people so 3835 03:06:36,560 --> 03:06:38,000 that we can take the things that we 3836 03:06:38,000 --> 03:06:39,359 learn and broaden and contribute in our 3837 03:06:39,359 --> 03:06:40,720 own community and throughout the world. 3838 03:06:40,720 --> 03:06:43,040 I I don't have feelings that it needs to 3839 03:06:43,040 --> 03:06:44,640 be an orum only person. I think it could 3840 03:06:44,640 --> 03:06:47,600 be someone else that could bring their perspective and a worldview that 3841 03:06:47,600 --> 03:06:49,359 we don't normally have to inspire our 3842 03:06:49,359 --> 03:06:50,800 own people. 3843 03:06:50,800 --> 03:06:52,960 >> Thank you. And I'll just say I think a 3844 03:06:52,960 --> 03:06:56,160 lot of the the value um for our ORM 3845 03:06:56,160 --> 03:06:58,399 residents from a program like this is 3846 03:06:58,399 --> 03:07:00,800 having somebody from the outside uh come 3847 03:07:00,800 --> 03:07:03,040 and just partner with UVU, partner with 3848 03:07:03,040 --> 03:07:05,920 the school district. Uh get out there uh 3849 03:07:05,920 --> 03:07:08,800 and work with young people very actively 3850 03:07:08,800 --> 03:07:10,640 just bring new things that we just don't 3851 03:07:10,640 --> 03:07:13,680 currently have in terms of programming. 3852 03:07:13,680 --> 03:07:15,840 uh we could it's essentially bringing a 3853 03:07:15,840 --> 03:07:19,439 whole series of uh as part of the the 3854 03:07:19,439 --> 03:07:22,479 contract associated with coming that 3855 03:07:22,479 --> 03:07:24,960 inspires and has just touch points all 3856 03:07:24,960 --> 03:07:26,800 throughout the city with lots of 3857 03:07:26,800 --> 03:07:28,239 >> I guess I would want to understand what 3858 03:07:28,239 --> 03:07:30,479 do you mean by 3859 03:07:30,479 --> 03:07:32,000 >> I don't I feel like we're not living 3860 03:07:32,000 --> 03:07:33,920 under a rock here I feel like we're 3861 03:07:33,920 --> 03:07:36,960 pretty aware I I mean it kind of made it 3862 03:07:36,960 --> 03:07:38,399 sound like we're we need to be 3863 03:07:38,399 --> 03:07:41,040 enlightened but I I I don't know I guess 3864 03:07:41,040 --> 03:07:42,720 I don't know what that means then 3865 03:07:42,720 --> 03:07:46,000 >> just visit schools, right? Having if 3866 03:07:46,000 --> 03:07:47,359 it's a visual artist, having an 3867 03:07:47,359 --> 03:07:49,680 exhibition where you invite lots lots of 3868 03:07:49,680 --> 03:07:53,120 young people um to participate. Uh if 3869 03:07:53,120 --> 03:07:55,840 it's a writer, being able to work with 3870 03:07:55,840 --> 03:07:58,239 young aspiring writers, people in senior 3871 03:07:58,239 --> 03:08:00,640 English classes to really help people 3872 03:08:00,640 --> 03:08:02,720 understand the process and get them 3873 03:08:02,720 --> 03:08:04,399 exposed to things that maybe they 3874 03:08:04,399 --> 03:08:06,000 haven't had a chance to 3875 03:08:06,000 --> 03:08:08,640 >> professionally like him. So, one of my 3876 03:08:08,640 --> 03:08:10,399 concerns with that is we don't have 3877 03:08:10,399 --> 03:08:12,479 really the ability to speak for UVU or 3878 03:08:12,479 --> 03:08:14,319 the school district on how that looks. 3879 03:08:14,319 --> 03:08:16,319 And so, putting money towards something 3880 03:08:16,319 --> 03:08:18,000 that we don't know whether or not we can 3881 03:08:18,000 --> 03:08:20,800 actually functionally do 3882 03:08:20,800 --> 03:08:22,560 >> is a little bit concerning. The Sierra 3883 03:08:22,560 --> 03:08:25,680 seems like our best bet in partnering 3884 03:08:25,680 --> 03:08:28,080 with somebody to have that or using 3885 03:08:28,080 --> 03:08:31,279 library hall, that kind of thing. 3886 03:08:31,279 --> 03:08:35,120 And so, I I just I still worry about 3887 03:08:35,120 --> 03:08:38,000 putting money towards 3888 03:08:38,000 --> 03:08:40,560 outside artist. 3889 03:08:40,560 --> 03:08:43,279 I still worry about that part. I I think 3890 03:08:43,279 --> 03:08:45,439 we have enough local talent. We have 3891 03:08:45,439 --> 03:08:47,520 great local talent that until we exhaust 3892 03:08:47,520 --> 03:08:49,840 that 3893 03:08:49,840 --> 03:08:52,239 we're not we're not serving our citizens 3894 03:08:52,239 --> 03:08:55,199 and the tax money that they need. 3895 03:08:55,199 --> 03:08:56,399 >> I think we have a different perspective 3896 03:08:56,399 --> 03:08:57,040 of that. 3897 03:08:57,040 --> 03:08:58,560 >> So, how do we decide? I mean, we can 3898 03:08:58,560 --> 03:09:00,160 have different perspectives, but how do 3899 03:09:00,160 --> 03:09:02,960 we what direction do we give to Bryce? 3900 03:09:02,960 --> 03:09:05,359 I mean, you know, what's the application 3901 03:09:05,359 --> 03:09:07,680 going to look like? Who's what's the 3902 03:09:07,680 --> 03:09:11,359 rubric? Do we put do we put a higher 3903 03:09:11,359 --> 03:09:14,720 point system to local or not? I mean, 3904 03:09:14,720 --> 03:09:15,760 that's what you want. Those are the 3905 03:09:15,760 --> 03:09:17,120 answers the questions you want answered, 3906 03:09:17,120 --> 03:09:18,000 right, Bryson? 3907 03:09:18,000 --> 03:09:20,560 >> I made we made a first run at it in our 3908 03:09:20,560 --> 03:09:22,640 um in the information we shared with uh 3909 03:09:22,640 --> 03:09:24,560 you know, Brandon ahead of that. I'd be 3910 03:09:24,560 --> 03:09:26,160 happy to share that with the group. I 3911 03:09:26,160 --> 03:09:27,840 think it again was meant to be 3912 03:09:27,840 --> 03:09:30,080 illustrative and to say we would love to 3913 03:09:30,080 --> 03:09:31,680 work with these the arts commission 3914 03:09:31,680 --> 03:09:34,319 library commission to shape that. Um but 3915 03:09:34,319 --> 03:09:35,760 if that would be useful to say hey how 3916 03:09:35,760 --> 03:09:37,040 do how do we set this up? How much 3917 03:09:37,040 --> 03:09:39,040 programming do we do? How much of each 3918 03:09:39,040 --> 03:09:40,720 of these things? What do we value? And 3919 03:09:40,720 --> 03:09:42,560 we'd be able to work with our missions 3920 03:09:42,560 --> 03:09:43,920 or 3921 03:09:43,920 --> 03:09:45,359 >> Yeah. So here's the question too. So 3922 03:09:45,359 --> 03:09:46,880 when you talk programming are we then 3923 03:09:46,880 --> 03:09:49,040 taking money out of the facilities to 3924 03:09:49,040 --> 03:09:50,239 have because this person's going to come 3925 03:09:50,239 --> 03:09:53,040 to library hall. So is that out of that 3926 03:09:53,040 --> 03:09:55,520 30,000 to then rent library hall for 3927 03:09:55,520 --> 03:09:57,359 them or 3928 03:09:57,359 --> 03:09:58,479 >> multiple people? 3929 03:09:58,479 --> 03:10:00,000 >> You know what I mean for that night? Do 3930 03:10:00,000 --> 03:10:02,000 we have one night of kind of like the 3931 03:10:02,000 --> 03:10:04,880 art night or 3932 03:10:04,880 --> 03:10:07,120 >> I I think generally if they're using our 3933 03:10:07,120 --> 03:10:08,560 facilities they would fall, you know, 3934 03:10:08,560 --> 03:10:10,560 the library hall would cover their 3935 03:10:10,560 --> 03:10:12,080 rental. But I I I think to your point, 3936 03:10:12,080 --> 03:10:13,199 yeah, there would be other costs 3937 03:10:13,199 --> 03:10:14,800 associated with running a program like 3938 03:10:14,800 --> 03:10:16,880 this. And I think that 30,000 would have 3939 03:10:16,880 --> 03:10:19,600 to be uh comprehensive of the cost of 3940 03:10:19,600 --> 03:10:21,439 the program. We don't we don't have 3941 03:10:21,439 --> 03:10:23,520 library funding set aside to operate 3942 03:10:23,520 --> 03:10:26,000 this program outside of this upcoming 3943 03:10:26,000 --> 03:10:27,520 fiscal year. We didn't put together 3944 03:10:27,520 --> 03:10:28,720 accounts towards it. 3945 03:10:28,720 --> 03:10:30,479 >> I might suggest that you know we start 3946 03:10:30,479 --> 03:10:32,399 with a steering committee and that you 3947 03:10:32,399 --> 03:10:33,600 know the steering committee might 3948 03:10:33,600 --> 03:10:35,760 include chair of the arts commission 3949 03:10:35,760 --> 03:10:40,319 include Bryce might include Pete um and 3950 03:10:40,319 --> 03:10:42,399 just some of those decisions I don't 3951 03:10:42,399 --> 03:10:44,319 think we're positioned as a city council 3952 03:10:44,319 --> 03:10:45,199 to make 3953 03:10:45,199 --> 03:10:46,399 >> I would like to have it be brought to 3954 03:10:46,399 --> 03:10:48,000 the city council. I would like a 3955 03:10:48,000 --> 03:10:51,359 proposal from maybe arts and library 3956 03:10:51,359 --> 03:10:53,600 commissions 3957 03:10:53,600 --> 03:10:55,840 then come to us as far as how these 3958 03:10:55,840 --> 03:10:57,760 funds are going to be. 3959 03:10:57,760 --> 03:11:00,080 >> Well, I think um I think it makes sense 3960 03:11:00,080 --> 03:11:02,000 to be an ORUM first. I mean that's kind 3961 03:11:02,000 --> 03:11:03,840 of the priority is we use orum artists, 3962 03:11:03,840 --> 03:11:06,000 writers, etc. 3963 03:11:06,000 --> 03:11:11,680 But depending on what the event is, 3964 03:11:11,680 --> 03:11:13,600 um, 3965 03:11:13,600 --> 03:11:16,000 you know, it would be it might be fun to 3966 03:11:16,000 --> 03:11:17,760 have somebody from outside depending on 3967 03:11:17,760 --> 03:11:20,399 what the event is, but if in other 3968 03:11:20,399 --> 03:11:21,600 events it would be great to have 3969 03:11:21,600 --> 03:11:23,680 somebody from Worm 3970 03:11:23,680 --> 03:11:25,120 and I and I agree. I think, you know, we 3971 03:11:25,120 --> 03:11:26,720 should look within our own within our 3972 03:11:26,720 --> 03:11:28,720 own homes and neighborhoods and is there 3973 03:11:28,720 --> 03:11:31,680 somebody that could do this for us? And 3974 03:11:31,680 --> 03:11:34,399 if that works, great. If not, it's a 3975 03:11:34,399 --> 03:11:36,640 totally different event 3976 03:11:36,640 --> 03:11:38,080 uh depending on what the goal of the 3977 03:11:38,080 --> 03:11:40,399 event is from the arts commission than 3978 03:11:40,399 --> 03:11:42,960 maybe look outside in those situations. 3979 03:11:42,960 --> 03:11:45,600 I don't think it has to be a one size 3980 03:11:45,600 --> 03:11:48,000 fits all depending on what the what the 3981 03:11:48,000 --> 03:11:52,080 event what the goal of the 3982 03:11:52,080 --> 03:11:55,199 while I'm here. Maybe maybe we can go 3983 03:11:55,199 --> 03:11:59,199 back and and try to develop a proposed 3984 03:11:59,199 --> 03:12:01,920 policy that would show 3985 03:12:01,920 --> 03:12:05,840 essentially how how will we show 3986 03:12:05,840 --> 03:12:07,840 that we will give something to ORM 3987 03:12:07,840 --> 03:12:10,800 residents through an application process 3988 03:12:10,800 --> 03:12:15,199 and andor a preference to a demonstrated 3989 03:12:15,199 --> 03:12:17,840 ability to partner with ORM entities 3990 03:12:17,840 --> 03:12:25,279 like ORM Sierra ORM schools or UVU and see if we can bring back a a 3991 03:12:25,279 --> 03:12:27,920 framework policy that 3992 03:12:27,920 --> 03:12:29,680 >> that you think is achievable. 3993 03:12:29,680 --> 03:12:31,120 >> And I'm sorry, I'm going to be that 3994 03:12:31,120 --> 03:12:33,600 person. Are we doing it just with our 3995 03:12:33,600 --> 03:12:35,120 artist and writer and residents, but 3996 03:12:35,120 --> 03:12:37,199 what about our honorarium? Do we do have 3997 03:12:37,199 --> 03:12:38,960 a policy for them? And do we have a 3998 03:12:38,960 --> 03:12:41,439 policy for those who get the rent from 3999 03:12:41,439 --> 03:12:43,520 the library hall 4000 03:12:43,520 --> 03:12:45,120 >> or for our care tax recipients 4001 03:12:45,120 --> 03:12:46,640 >> or for the for the other career 4002 03:12:46,640 --> 03:12:49,439 advancement? I think that if we do it 4003 03:12:49,439 --> 03:12:51,840 for one, we need to do it for all. 4004 03:12:51,840 --> 03:12:53,680 >> The rent one is covered underneath that 4005 03:12:53,680 --> 03:12:57,359 when they apply, they have the that's 4006 03:12:57,359 --> 03:13:00,479 already part of that application. They 4007 03:13:00,479 --> 03:13:01,840 have the ability to do that. 4008 03:13:01,840 --> 03:13:03,199 >> Do what I'm saying is as we're talking 4009 03:13:03,199 --> 03:13:05,279 about having a policy come back, but do 4010 03:13:05,279 --> 03:13:06,960 we need policies to come to the city 4011 03:13:06,960 --> 03:13:09,040 council for the honorarium program and 4012 03:13:09,040 --> 03:13:11,520 for the library hall or how I'm trying 4013 03:13:11,520 --> 03:13:13,279 to understand the difference. 4014 03:13:13,279 --> 03:13:15,760 >> They already qualify for facility 4015 03:13:15,760 --> 03:13:18,560 rental. That's at the honorary, correct 4016 03:13:18,560 --> 03:13:20,239 me if I'm wrong. That's the 4017 03:13:20,239 --> 03:13:21,600 >> current currently anyone that's on this 4018 03:13:21,600 --> 03:13:24,239 list will qualify for three library hall 4019 03:13:24,239 --> 03:13:24,960 rental. 4020 03:13:24,960 --> 03:13:26,560 I guess my my what I was kind of 4021 03:13:26,560 --> 03:13:28,159 thinking is kind of the knowledge that 4022 03:13:28,159 --> 03:13:30,080 you got when you researched how other 4023 03:13:30,080 --> 03:13:31,600 communities did it 4024 03:13:31,600 --> 03:13:33,680 >> and then putting that together with this 4025 03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:37,279 same lens of maybe we look for ORM 4026 03:13:37,279 --> 03:13:39,120 people and have an option in case we 4027 03:13:39,120 --> 03:13:41,520 don't have talented ORM people to bring 4028 03:13:41,520 --> 03:13:43,760 I don't know is that what you guys are 4029 03:13:43,760 --> 03:13:45,359 >> is that something that the commission 4030 03:13:45,359 --> 03:13:47,760 the arts council can look at I know the 4031 03:13:47,760 --> 03:13:50,000 care commission's typically been a heavy 4032 03:13:50,000 --> 03:13:51,840 to pull them back in September but 4033 03:13:51,840 --> 03:13:55,520 >> well that would be fun for not to do 4034 03:13:55,520 --> 03:13:57,440 signals on if you want more meetings, 4035 03:13:57,440 --> 03:14:00,159 [clears throat] but I I yes, I would 4036 03:14:00,159 --> 03:14:04,000 love the idea to test this out um and 4037 03:14:04,000 --> 03:14:06,080 report back. I I would hope every year 4038 03:14:06,080 --> 03:14:08,399 we test it out, report back, and if we 4039 03:14:08,399 --> 03:14:12,399 find that the value and versus work and financial commitment from our 4040 03:14:12,399 --> 03:14:14,479 residents has changed, then we tweak or 4041 03:14:14,479 --> 03:14:16,479 cancel or fail fast and move on. because 4042 03:14:16,479 --> 03:14:18,319 we could totally find like to your point 4043 03:14:18,319 --> 03:14:20,800 Quinn, there could be an outside person 4044 03:14:20,800 --> 03:14:23,359 we pull in and they just hit it out of 4045 03:14:23,359 --> 03:14:26,080 the park, you know. So, I'm not opposed 4046 03:14:26,080 --> 03:14:27,840 to any of that, but I would like to hear 4047 03:14:27,840 --> 03:14:29,760 what other cities have done. Maybe have 4048 03:14:29,760 --> 03:14:31,680 I like your idea of the care commission 4049 03:14:31,680 --> 03:14:34,080 being the ones who finalize or or not 4050 03:14:34,080 --> 03:14:37,680 finalize, but um draft that type of 4051 03:14:37,680 --> 03:14:40,000 application. It it might actually make 4052 03:14:40,000 --> 03:14:41,279 more sense just because the care 4053 03:14:41,279 --> 03:14:42,800 commission is seasonal to have the arts 4054 03:14:42,800 --> 03:14:44,640 and the library commission work on it, 4055 03:14:44,640 --> 03:14:46,800 >> but they only do go one time. They only 4056 03:14:46,800 --> 03:14:48,560 I mean I think it'd be great to pull 4057 03:14:48,560 --> 03:14:50,960 them back in because they're the ones 4058 03:14:50,960 --> 03:14:52,080 that are going to be awarding these 4059 03:14:52,080 --> 03:14:55,120 dollars. So, let's give them let's pull 4060 03:14:55,120 --> 03:14:57,120 them in in September again. Said 4061 03:14:57,120 --> 03:14:59,120 >> I I could prepare those options, I 4062 03:14:59,120 --> 03:15:01,120 think, for y'all as a council. And I 4063 03:15:01,120 --> 03:15:03,199 would also I guess one other thing I 4064 03:15:03,199 --> 03:15:04,479 could prepare if it would be helpful for 4065 03:15:04,479 --> 03:15:06,720 y'all is 4066 03:15:06,720 --> 03:15:08,880 unintended consequences on the other 4067 03:15:08,880 --> 03:15:11,439 groups. If we did a ORM only or ORM 4068 03:15:11,439 --> 03:15:13,279 preferred I don't know if that would be 4069 03:15:13,279 --> 03:15:15,040 helpful to be like oh well then these a 4070 03:15:15,040 --> 03:15:17,680 like uh I don't want to call it one 4071 03:15:17,680 --> 03:15:19,920 group but like oh maybe they're actually 4072 03:15:19,920 --> 03:15:22,640 based in London and but we they practice 4073 03:15:22,640 --> 03:15:24,239 or perform here. It's like, oh, I would 4074 03:15:24,239 --> 03:15:26,000 want y'all to see if, you know, as we 4075 03:15:26,000 --> 03:15:28,159 make a policy for his one program, if it 4076 03:15:28,159 --> 03:15:29,840 would have accidental ripple effects 4077 03:15:29,840 --> 03:15:31,760 elsewhere. So, I can prepare some of 4078 03:15:31,760 --> 03:15:34,399 that and return to y'all. 4079 03:15:34,399 --> 03:15:36,720 >> But can I just can I just say to that 4080 03:15:36,720 --> 03:15:38,239 it's always been that way and I feel 4081 03:15:38,239 --> 03:15:39,520 like the care commission has always 4082 03:15:39,520 --> 03:15:41,120 handled that really well 4083 03:15:41,120 --> 03:15:43,040 >> and I trust the care commission to you 4084 03:15:43,040 --> 03:15:45,840 know that what you just went through. 4085 03:15:45,840 --> 03:15:49,040 Um, that's why maybe some get more money 4086 03:15:49,040 --> 03:15:50,800 and some don't get as much money. I mean 4087 03:15:50,800 --> 03:15:53,279 that is very carefully part of the 4088 03:15:53,279 --> 03:15:54,479 process 4089 03:15:54,479 --> 03:15:56,560 >> of of that. So I'm I'm completely 4090 03:15:56,560 --> 03:15:59,199 comfortable with that as it is 4091 03:15:59,199 --> 03:15:59,680 >> right 4092 03:15:59,680 --> 03:16:01,600 >> for me 4093 03:16:01,600 --> 03:16:03,040 they they do consider those things 4094 03:16:03,040 --> 03:16:06,080 carefully. Yeah. 4095 03:16:06,080 --> 03:16:09,520 I think maybe um coming back to the 4096 03:16:09,520 --> 03:16:12,640 council could be you know a return and 4097 03:16:12,640 --> 03:16:17,199 report via you know mail memo uh uh in 4098 03:16:17,199 --> 03:16:20,720 my meetings with you with you all and I 4099 03:16:20,720 --> 03:16:23,760 use the term policy maybe lightly maybe 4100 03:16:23,760 --> 03:16:27,199 it's looking at the rubric the rubric 4101 03:16:27,199 --> 03:16:28,640 and the application process that our 4102 03:16:28,640 --> 03:16:30,800 care commission did and and and trying 4103 03:16:30,800 --> 03:16:32,319 to make sure that our artists and 4104 03:16:32,319 --> 03:16:38,309 library commission take those things 4105 03:16:38,319 --> 03:16:39,520 You want to say one more thing? 4106 03:16:39,520 --> 03:16:40,720 >> Well, two more. We want to talk about 4107 03:16:40,720 --> 03:16:43,040 the application thing, but the I would 4108 03:16:43,040 --> 03:16:44,880 actually I'm not quite sure where when 4109 03:16:44,880 --> 03:16:46,239 we strayed [clears throat] from this 4110 03:16:46,239 --> 03:16:48,960 last year, but it used to be that the 4111 03:16:48,960 --> 03:16:54,000 council would um award and discuss the 4112 03:16:54,000 --> 03:16:56,800 major grants. And when you got when 4113 03:16:56,800 --> 03:16:59,520 you're dealing with a million dollars, I 4114 03:16:59,520 --> 03:17:01,680 feel like that should be council versus 4115 03:17:01,680 --> 03:17:03,520 the year commission. I I really 4116 03:17:03,520 --> 03:17:04,800 appreciate the care commission with the 4117 03:17:04,800 --> 03:17:06,239 mids and 4118 03:17:06,239 --> 03:17:06,399 >> the 4119 03:17:06,399 --> 03:17:07,840 >> care commission did nothing with the 4120 03:17:07,840 --> 03:17:08,880 major grids. 4121 03:17:08,880 --> 03:17:11,359 >> Okay. Well, then it was Quinn and Jen 4122 03:17:11,359 --> 03:17:12,159 >> and staff. Yeah. 4123 03:17:12,159 --> 03:17:14,000 Maybe if we could have 4124 03:17:14,000 --> 03:17:15,840 that. I think that might be a little 4125 03:17:15,840 --> 03:17:17,520 more transparent too, a little more 4126 03:17:17,520 --> 03:17:19,520 discession oriented and maybe even more 4127 03:17:19,520 --> 03:17:20,960 of a rahrh for this bureau where 4128 03:17:20,960 --> 03:17:22,960 everyone can really see what they are 4129 03:17:22,960 --> 03:17:26,159 offering for community. 4130 03:17:26,159 --> 03:17:27,279 Is that 4131 03:17:27,279 --> 03:17:28,239 >> just to do that? Right. 4132 03:17:28,239 --> 03:17:31,279 >> Been quite a while since we've done 4133 03:17:31,279 --> 03:17:32,800 as far as them 4134 03:17:32,800 --> 03:17:38,630 >> presentation. 4135 03:17:38,640 --> 03:17:39,439 So we have 4136 03:17:39,439 --> 03:17:42,080 >> it was when the hail left. 4137 03:17:42,080 --> 03:17:44,319 >> Well, yeah, there were even before the 4138 03:17:44,319 --> 03:17:48,319 hail left, they didn't present anything 4139 03:17:48,319 --> 03:17:50,080 >> considered 4140 03:17:50,080 --> 03:17:51,120 together as a group 4141 03:17:51,120 --> 03:17:52,479 >> because I know when I was on the care 4142 03:17:52,479 --> 03:17:53,760 commission when Jeff and I were 4143 03:17:53,760 --> 03:17:55,359 >> they used to Yeah. they would come in 4144 03:17:55,359 --> 03:17:56,880 and they would know that it used to. So 4145 03:17:56,880 --> 03:17:58,239 that's going back 4146 03:17:58,239 --> 03:18:00,080 >> and then they took it away from our care 4147 03:18:00,080 --> 03:18:01,840 commission and said this is for the city 4148 03:18:01,840 --> 03:18:03,680 council. 4149 03:18:03,680 --> 03:18:06,640 >> So I noticed that Adam came to the work 4150 03:18:06,640 --> 03:18:09,600 session so we could maybe more 4151 03:18:09,600 --> 03:18:12,319 >> distinctly you know recognize and have a 4152 03:18:12,319 --> 03:18:15,199 you know a Q&A or a back and forth 4153 03:18:15,199 --> 03:18:18,960 >> uh in future um 4154 03:18:18,960 --> 03:18:21,279 care deliberations specifically for 4155 03:18:21,279 --> 03:18:24,000 especially for our major grants. Um and 4156 03:18:24,000 --> 03:18:26,720 but then also note at the request of 4157 03:18:26,720 --> 03:18:31,120 Adam um uh we we have him come and do a 4158 03:18:31,120 --> 03:18:33,120 presentation in a council meeting in the 4159 03:18:33,120 --> 03:18:37,140 fall after the uh the shell program. So 4160 03:18:37,140 --> 03:18:37,680 [clears throat] 4161 03:18:37,680 --> 03:18:41,714 that he has some recent data and impact 4162 03:18:41,714 --> 03:18:44,960 [clears throat] to share well as visuals 4163 03:18:44,960 --> 03:18:47,840 to go along with it so that it's not a 4164 03:18:47,840 --> 03:18:49,520 >> so not a presentation but just part of 4165 03:18:49,520 --> 03:18:51,439 the budgeting. 4166 03:18:51,439 --> 03:18:52,080 >> Correct. 4167 03:18:52,080 --> 03:18:55,439 >> So I think next year I'll I'll be sure 4168 03:18:55,439 --> 03:18:58,560 to meet with Adam and and make sure that 4169 03:18:58,560 --> 03:19:01,840 he comes to a work session to have you 4170 03:19:01,840 --> 03:19:04,000 know just a back and forth you ask 4171 03:19:04,000 --> 03:19:07,520 questions. he can he can maybe highlight 4172 03:19:07,520 --> 03:19:10,319 uh uh the application material that he 4173 03:19:10,319 --> 03:19:14,239 puts in. Um 4174 03:19:14,239 --> 03:19:16,640 and then uh and then beyond that he 4175 03:19:16,640 --> 03:19:18,080 would come to a regular council meeting 4176 03:19:18,080 --> 03:19:22,880 in the fall after the shell does their 4177 03:19:22,880 --> 03:19:26,000 >> reportive event. 4178 03:19:26,000 --> 03:19:27,439 >> Okay. Should I say this last thing real 4179 03:19:27,439 --> 03:19:28,399 quick because I know we're over time, 4180 03:19:28,399 --> 03:19:31,439 but um so yeah, the only thing that I 4181 03:19:31,439 --> 03:19:34,560 heard feedback from was on your on the 4182 03:19:34,560 --> 03:19:36,399 form is they wanted to you'd have the 4183 03:19:36,399 --> 03:19:38,800 one part where you say how many do you 4184 03:19:38,800 --> 03:19:40,399 kind of like how many in the population 4185 03:19:40,399 --> 03:19:43,359 do you serve also was how many residents 4186 03:19:43,359 --> 03:19:46,159 are involved in your group was something 4187 03:19:46,159 --> 03:19:50,159 that she had said and then um 4188 03:19:50,159 --> 03:19:53,040 okay there's there are some groups that 4189 03:19:53,040 --> 03:19:57,920 are on our care that are um historical 4190 03:19:57,920 --> 03:19:59,520 community 4191 03:19:59,520 --> 03:20:03,520 um founded community um 4192 03:20:03,520 --> 03:20:06,000 beloved groups. 4193 03:20:06,000 --> 03:20:07,439 >> They've been there since day one. 4194 03:20:07,439 --> 03:20:10,399 >> Yes. And 4195 03:20:10,399 --> 03:20:12,239 um 4196 03:20:12,239 --> 03:20:14,960 I I just wonder I felt like there there 4197 03:20:14,960 --> 03:20:16,800 could be a somewhere in the rubric we 4198 03:20:16,800 --> 03:20:20,960 need to have a way to show that that's 4199 03:20:20,960 --> 03:20:24,399 who those groups are and 4200 03:20:24,399 --> 03:20:28,159 why we support them. 4201 03:20:28,159 --> 03:20:29,199 Um 4202 03:20:29,199 --> 03:20:31,755 >> I I was taking 4203 03:20:31,755 --> 03:20:32,640 [laughter] 4204 03:20:32,640 --> 03:20:36,560 >> So there's a couple groups that are um 4205 03:20:36,560 --> 03:20:38,800 historical groups, legacy groups, yeah, 4206 03:20:38,800 --> 03:20:41,359 that that probably don't score very high 4207 03:20:41,359 --> 03:20:44,640 on some of these rubric questions, but 4208 03:20:44,640 --> 03:20:46,319 due to their um 4209 03:20:46,319 --> 03:20:47,040 >> maybe they could say 4210 03:20:47,040 --> 03:20:48,239 >> touch points their 4211 03:20:48,239 --> 03:20:50,880 >> historical roads given point. Yeah, that 4212 03:20:50,880 --> 03:20:53,120 was the only other thing that I 4213 03:20:53,120 --> 03:20:55,359 >> certainly shant 4214 03:20:55,359 --> 03:20:58,800 >> that's the exact philos 4215 03:20:58,800 --> 03:21:02,800 >> one thing that the commission talked a 4216 03:21:02,800 --> 03:21:06,159 lot about again this is my first year so 4217 03:21:06,159 --> 03:21:08,080 I I was learning a lot from our our 4218 03:21:08,080 --> 03:21:11,040 commission but uh one thing that they 4219 03:21:11,040 --> 03:21:13,840 were concerned with trying to assess as 4220 03:21:13,840 --> 03:21:16,640 they heard presentations was uh they see 4221 03:21:16,640 --> 03:21:18,399 this money as kind of startup money to 4222 03:21:18,399 --> 03:21:20,640 help people get started um but they 4223 03:21:20,640 --> 03:21:24,399 don't want groups to be dependent on it year after year without 4224 03:21:24,399 --> 03:21:26,960 seeking additional funding. So they 4225 03:21:26,960 --> 03:21:30,239 often asked presenters as they came what 4226 03:21:30,239 --> 03:21:31,840 additional funding are you seeking and 4227 03:21:31,840 --> 03:21:33,439 how how are you trying to become 4228 03:21:33,439 --> 03:21:34,960 self-sufficient and that was one of the 4229 03:21:34,960 --> 03:21:37,120 criteria that they talked about and 4230 03:21:37,120 --> 03:21:38,000 sometimes that was a little bit 4231 03:21:38,000 --> 03:21:41,359 intention with this this particular 4232 03:21:41,359 --> 03:21:43,439 designation which is we have some groups 4233 03:21:43,439 --> 03:21:45,040 that are more active in seeking outside 4234 03:21:45,040 --> 03:21:46,319 funding than others. 4235 03:21:46,319 --> 03:21:49,199 >> Yeah. and and I because our policy is I 4236 03:21:49,199 --> 03:21:50,640 don't know if it's a policy but you know 4237 03:21:50,640 --> 03:21:54,319 the care does kind of talk about that 4238 03:21:54,319 --> 03:21:56,960 so there has to but um just a 4239 03:21:56,960 --> 03:21:58,159 consideration there I don't know how to 4240 03:21:58,159 --> 03:22:00,880 do it but it's a good point 4241 03:22:00,880 --> 03:22:03,359 >> at least uh I'm looking at Trevor be 4242 03:22:03,359 --> 03:22:05,359 pretty easy to add into the rubric 4243 03:22:05,359 --> 03:22:09,040 something that speaks to historical 4244 03:22:09,040 --> 03:22:11,600 experience impact 4245 03:22:11,600 --> 03:22:12,720 >> one of the questions on there is like 4246 03:22:12,720 --> 03:22:14,560 overall value to the community and I 4247 03:22:14,560 --> 03:22:15,840 think that would be the opportunity to 4248 03:22:15,840 --> 03:22:18,080 either add some subcategories or 4249 03:22:18,080 --> 03:22:20,399 something that would legacy components 4250 03:22:20,399 --> 03:22:22,960 so that group could get 4251 03:22:22,960 --> 03:22:25,439 or allow the commission to vote. 4252 03:22:25,439 --> 03:22:28,239 >> If we go back in time, it it was these 4253 03:22:28,239 --> 03:22:30,080 legacy groups and the Sierra that 4254 03:22:30,080 --> 03:22:32,000 actually passed the care tax that got us 4255 03:22:32,000 --> 03:22:34,000 the 4256 03:22:34,000 --> 03:22:35,760 >> Well, and some of these groups like the 4257 03:22:35,760 --> 03:22:38,560 Shantinets, they serve I don't know how 4258 03:22:38,560 --> 03:22:42,000 many on here really service our senior 4259 03:22:42,000 --> 03:22:44,399 population like the Shantanets do. And 4260 03:22:44,399 --> 03:22:47,279 so who are they serving? How many how 4261 03:22:47,279 --> 03:22:49,600 many of these groups are we are they are 4262 03:22:49,600 --> 03:22:51,680 is their focus on a certain subset of 4263 03:22:51,680 --> 03:22:54,479 the population. And so seeing the subset 4264 03:22:54,479 --> 03:22:56,399 of the population that their focus is on 4265 03:22:56,399 --> 03:22:58,479 might be helpful too. 4266 03:22:58,479 --> 03:23:01,359 >> I think that is why we have interviews 4267 03:23:01,359 --> 03:23:03,680 >> that are supposed to sell that not not 4268 03:23:03,680 --> 03:23:04,319 us. 4269 03:23:04,319 --> 03:23:09,359 >> Yes. So um as I argue that they should 4270 03:23:09,359 --> 03:23:12,080 be the ones trying to sell a commission 4271 03:23:12,080 --> 03:23:13,920 and keep in mind this is just the 4272 03:23:13,920 --> 03:23:16,720 commission's proposal 4273 03:23:16,720 --> 03:23:21,279 every right to change whatever you want 4274 03:23:21,279 --> 03:23:23,199 >> as the 4275 03:23:23,199 --> 03:23:25,600 wording entity. This is called 4276 03:23:25,600 --> 03:23:29,830 deliberations for a lesson. 4277 03:23:29,840 --> 03:23:33,199 » We certainly and almost every one of the 4278 03:23:33,199 --> 03:23:34,399 and that was one of the things on the 4279 03:23:34,399 --> 03:23:36,000 rubric we already had talked about 4280 03:23:36,000 --> 03:23:38,319 adding as far as having a specific item 4281 03:23:38,319 --> 03:23:41,199 on there as far as the um the number of 4282 03:23:41,199 --> 03:23:44,720 people that are on in their group that 4283 03:23:44,720 --> 03:23:48,479 are ORM residents if you will. We asked 4284 03:23:48,479 --> 03:23:49,760 every one of them, 4285 03:23:49,760 --> 03:23:51,279 >> but 4286 03:23:51,279 --> 03:23:52,640 we will definitely put it. 4287 03:23:52,640 --> 03:23:53,040 >> Yeah. 4288 03:23:53,040 --> 03:23:54,720 >> And she did say that. She said we had to 4289 03:23:54,720 --> 03:23:55,920 ask. She said, "But if you could add 4290 03:23:55,920 --> 03:23:58,560 that, tell them to maybe add that, you 4291 03:23:58,560 --> 03:24:01,760 know." Um, that was Yeah. There she is 4292 03:24:01,760 --> 03:24:03,439 very appreciative of all your work on 4293 03:24:03,439 --> 03:24:06,319 this. Um, said she liked it so much 4294 03:24:06,319 --> 03:24:08,080 better. 4295 03:24:08,080 --> 03:24:09,520 >> And we realize it's a work in progress, 4296 03:24:09,520 --> 03:24:12,159 so hopefully you do, too. Um, we're 4297 03:24:12,159 --> 03:24:13,920 constantly trying to refine it. 4298 03:24:13,920 --> 03:24:15,199 >> Oh, good. It was good. 4299 03:24:15,199 --> 03:24:17,439 >> Thanks for the effort. Right. Anything 4300 03:24:17,439 --> 03:24:18,720 else? 4301 03:24:18,720 --> 03:24:22,399 >> So, so what would happen is 4302 03:24:22,399 --> 03:24:25,680 so also keep in mind art and writer now 4303 03:24:25,680 --> 03:24:27,040 that we kind of know that maybe you want 4304 03:24:27,040 --> 03:24:31,600 to have some sort of call it third party 4305 03:24:31,600 --> 03:24:34,640 um awarding. I don't know how other to 4306 03:24:34,640 --> 03:24:38,239 say that. Um but you know that 30 that 4307 03:24:38,239 --> 03:24:40,560 those monies wouldn't necessarily um 4308 03:24:40,560 --> 03:24:43,600 just be spent you know without some sort 4309 03:24:43,600 --> 03:24:47,199 of uh prior approval. um whatever that 4310 03:24:47,199 --> 03:24:50,399 prior approval ended up looking like. Um 4311 03:24:50,399 --> 03:24:52,479 and so if if for whatever reason no 4312 03:24:52,479 --> 03:24:54,960 agreement could be made on that. So it's 4313 03:24:54,960 --> 03:24:56,378 not like those monies just disappear. 4314 03:24:56,378 --> 03:24:57,040 [clears throat] 4315 03:24:57,040 --> 03:25:00,000 They they stay within the the care fund 4316 03:25:00,000 --> 03:25:03,199 and you can move those around wherever 4317 03:25:03,199 --> 03:25:05,439 it is uh we you know as a council you 4318 03:25:05,439 --> 03:25:07,279 felt like they needed to go if that 4319 03:25:07,279 --> 03:25:08,640 didn't work out. 4320 03:25:08,640 --> 03:25:10,479 >> So keep that in mind as well. 4321 03:25:10,479 --> 03:25:12,319 >> Yeah. Because can I just I mean I think 4322 03:25:12,319 --> 03:25:15,120 30,000 is a lot. I mean, we're only 4323 03:25:15,120 --> 03:25:16,880 giving the ballet 25 and we've been 4324 03:25:16,880 --> 03:25:19,199 doing that for 20 years or 15 years 4325 03:25:19,199 --> 03:25:23,760 we've been doing this, but um so I'm I'm 4326 03:25:23,760 --> 03:25:25,520 willing to go with that because I'm not 4327 03:25:25,520 --> 03:25:27,840 familiar with what it is and I'd like to 4328 03:25:27,840 --> 03:25:30,640 help do some seed money there. But to 4329 03:25:30,640 --> 03:25:32,319 the point of every year it being that 4330 03:25:32,319 --> 03:25:34,479 much, I really I don't know that, you 4331 03:25:34,479 --> 03:25:36,159 know, 4332 03:25:36,159 --> 03:25:37,520 >> I guess you're saying, right? 4333 03:25:37,520 --> 03:25:38,800 >> That's what you're saying is we'll see 4334 03:25:38,800 --> 03:25:41,040 if we spend the money. 4335 03:25:41,040 --> 03:25:43,520 So yeah, so we would come forward in our 4336 03:25:43,520 --> 03:25:46,800 u the May 12th council meeting with the 4337 03:25:46,800 --> 03:25:48,479 resolution or or I think it's an 4338 03:25:48,479 --> 03:25:50,159 ordinance the ordinance with this 4339 03:25:50,159 --> 03:25:54,000 exhibit and then 4340 03:25:54,000 --> 03:25:58,080 point is that fair statement of where we 4341 03:25:58,080 --> 03:25:58,880 would be going. 4342 03:25:58,880 --> 03:26:00,960 >> Yes. Thank you. 4343 03:26:00,960 --> 03:26:02,560 >> Thank 4344 03:26:02,560 --> 03:26:04,080 you. This has been a good discussion. 4345 03:26:04,080 --> 03:26:07,199 That's one of the things I I really like 4346 03:26:07,199 --> 03:26:10,479 about ORM is that we're we're doing 4347 03:26:10,479 --> 03:26:12,640 things that haven't been done before. 4348 03:26:12,640 --> 03:26:14,159 Not that we're off doing something kind 4349 03:26:14,159 --> 03:26:18,960 of halfcocked or whatever, but we're doing this and so we don't have a 4350 03:26:18,960 --> 03:26:22,159 lot of Well, this is our first rodeo and 4351 03:26:22,159 --> 03:26:24,159 so if it were our second or third or 4352 03:26:24,159 --> 03:26:26,720 fourth rodeo, it would be the discussion 4353 03:26:26,720 --> 03:26:28,560 would be a bit different. But I'm 4354 03:26:28,560 --> 03:26:30,319 grateful to have these discussions with 4355 03:26:30,319 --> 03:26:33,680 our first rodeo. And now we're going to 4356 03:26:33,680 --> 03:26:36,159 go to the one that's the agenda item is 4357 03:26:36,159 --> 03:26:39,760 the most fun to say fleet and streets 4358 03:26:39,760 --> 03:26:43,120 of a budget and thing Carter our fleet 4359 03:26:43,120 --> 03:26:45,840 manager Chris Sher public works director 4360 03:26:45,840 --> 03:26:48,000 and Bill are you here for moral support 4361 03:26:48,000 --> 03:26:50,239 >> I'm here for presentation 4362 03:26:50,239 --> 03:26:51,040 >> okay 4363 03:26:51,040 --> 03:26:52,239 >> he's here for the muscle 4364 03:26:52,239 --> 03:26:53,680 >> he's for the streets so we got the 4365 03:26:53,680 --> 03:26:55,359 fleets in the streets 4366 03:26:55,359 --> 03:26:57,600 >> thank you how uh being respectful of 4367 03:26:57,600 --> 03:27:00,000 time how much time do I have you want 4368 03:27:00,000 --> 03:27:01,520 the long version short version. 4369 03:27:01,520 --> 03:27:04,880 >> Okay, it says here 30 minutes, but we're 4370 03:27:04,880 --> 03:27:06,960 um we're 10 minutes over what I mean, 4371 03:27:06,960 --> 03:27:08,960 but I want to respect I want you to be 4372 03:27:08,960 --> 03:27:10,960 able to say what you need to say and 4373 03:27:10,960 --> 03:27:12,640 that you sat over three hours to come 4374 03:27:12,640 --> 03:27:15,279 and say [laughter] 4375 03:27:15,279 --> 03:27:17,760 >> give give a short version in terms of 4376 03:27:17,760 --> 03:27:21,279 what you present and Chris also please 4377 03:27:21,279 --> 03:27:24,399 feel free to ask questions and then know 4378 03:27:24,399 --> 03:27:27,439 that uh this presentation and supporting 4379 03:27:27,439 --> 03:27:28,640 documentation 4380 03:27:28,640 --> 03:27:31,199 >> Yeah, I'm look through the I want I've 4381 03:27:31,199 --> 03:27:32,640 been I've been in your shoes in other 4382 03:27:32,640 --> 03:27:35,040 presentations when the council's I want 4383 03:27:35,040 --> 03:27:38,640 you to feel like you've got you you got 4384 03:27:38,640 --> 03:27:40,000 to say what you came to say. 4385 03:27:40,000 --> 03:27:41,359 >> We'll race through it pretty quick and 4386 03:27:41,359 --> 03:27:43,359 if there's questions feel free to ask. 4387 03:27:43,359 --> 03:27:44,880 Um 4388 03:27:44,880 --> 03:27:47,680 uh Teresa shared with all of you I hope 4389 03:27:47,680 --> 03:27:50,239 that the three spreadsheets uh the first 4390 03:27:50,239 --> 03:27:52,880 spreadsheet is general fund leasing. The 4391 03:27:52,880 --> 03:27:55,199 second spreadsheet is general fund uh 4392 03:27:55,199 --> 03:27:57,120 purchasing and then the final one is 4393 03:27:57,120 --> 03:27:58,880 enterprise 4394 03:27:58,880 --> 03:28:00,880 and there are different types of 4395 03:28:00,880 --> 03:28:04,960 purchases there um basically leasing uh 4396 03:28:04,960 --> 03:28:06,800 different types of leasing uh purchasing 4397 03:28:06,800 --> 03:28:09,279 and then syncing funds. 4398 03:28:09,279 --> 03:28:11,439 We'll dive right into it and I I won't 4399 03:28:11,439 --> 03:28:14,000 so much go for uh all the description of 4400 03:28:14,000 --> 03:28:17,120 the vehicles but um kind of the amounts 4401 03:28:17,120 --> 03:28:19,040 here. You'll see that uh we're going to 4402 03:28:19,040 --> 03:28:20,720 extend the lease one year on four 4403 03:28:20,720 --> 03:28:24,159 vehicles for $15,000. 4404 03:28:24,159 --> 03:28:26,640 Um 4405 03:28:26,640 --> 03:28:29,120 and then we're going to trade in 12 4406 03:28:29,120 --> 03:28:32,080 vehicles and lease new vehicles for 12 4407 03:28:32,080 --> 03:28:37,269 for lease for $164,500. 4408 03:28:37,279 --> 03:28:39,199 And then we have an annual lease payment 4409 03:28:39,199 --> 03:28:43,359 on multiple vehicles um that are still 4410 03:28:43,359 --> 03:28:46,319 year two of three and uh uh year three 4411 03:28:46,319 --> 03:28:48,720 of three for $105,500 4412 03:28:48,720 --> 03:28:51,920 for 10 of those vehicles. 4413 03:28:51,920 --> 03:28:53,680 Uh the fire department, we're we're 4414 03:28:53,680 --> 03:28:56,640 funding a pumper for a seven-year lease, 4415 03:28:56,640 --> 03:28:59,199 I believe. Um not a lease, we're going 4416 03:28:59,199 --> 03:29:02,960 to finance it uh for $160,000 a year. 4417 03:29:02,960 --> 03:29:04,239 >> This is the one that you're waiting for 4418 03:29:04,239 --> 03:29:05,520 the documents for. 4419 03:29:05,520 --> 03:29:07,199 >> Okay. Okay. So, this is a purchase set. 4420 03:29:07,199 --> 03:29:09,840 >> This is our lease purchase. Yes. 4421 03:29:09,840 --> 03:29:11,279 >> We're intended. We're flying back on the 4422 03:29:11,279 --> 03:29:13,840 19th for a final inspection. So, we'll 4423 03:29:13,840 --> 03:29:16,159 >> Okay. So, I'm waiting for the email. 4424 03:29:16,159 --> 03:29:19,990 >> We soon 4425 03:29:20,000 --> 03:29:22,880 and then uh one of the 4426 03:29:22,880 --> 03:29:24,960 vehicles will be uh selling and and 4427 03:29:24,960 --> 03:29:29,439 recouping 35,000 estimate from that. So, 4428 03:29:29,439 --> 03:29:32,550 um, 4429 03:29:32,560 --> 03:29:35,120 the subtotal here for by departments, 4430 03:29:35,120 --> 03:29:36,640 $410,000 4431 03:29:36,640 --> 03:29:38,399 for all of them. And then you'll see the 4432 03:29:38,399 --> 03:29:42,870 breakdown there. 4433 03:29:42,880 --> 03:29:44,960 And now we move into purchasing. Uh, 4434 03:29:44,960 --> 03:29:47,120 there's three vehicles that we propose 4435 03:29:47,120 --> 03:29:49,279 uh, purchasing for the parks department 4436 03:29:49,279 --> 03:29:51,680 that we currently leasing. Uh, the lease 4437 03:29:51,680 --> 03:29:54,239 is getting expensive, so more sense to 4438 03:29:54,239 --> 03:29:56,720 purchase. uh an excavator, a small 4439 03:29:56,720 --> 03:29:58,720 loader, and a a trailer to transport 4440 03:29:58,720 --> 03:30:02,149 them for $76,000. 4441 03:30:02,159 --> 03:30:05,439 Um community development uh they look a 4442 03:30:05,439 --> 03:30:07,359 little low for $9,000 for two vehicles, 4443 03:30:07,359 --> 03:30:08,800 but those are being repurposed from 4444 03:30:08,800 --> 03:30:11,279 enterprise funds, and those are going to 4445 03:30:11,279 --> 03:30:15,520 help. Uh they're a little bit fitting. 4446 03:30:15,520 --> 03:30:18,159 Parks and Recreation, 4447 03:30:18,159 --> 03:30:20,319 $27,500. 4448 03:30:20,319 --> 03:30:22,319 There's a a large gang mower in there 4449 03:30:22,319 --> 03:30:25,840 and some UTVs and a couple small mowers, 4450 03:30:25,840 --> 03:30:27,812 riding mowers. 4451 03:30:27,812 --> 03:30:28,399 [clears throat] 4452 03:30:28,399 --> 03:30:32,880 And then um traffic, $80,000 for a van, 4453 03:30:32,880 --> 03:30:35,600 a fulls size van to transport the that 4454 03:30:35,600 --> 03:30:38,720 folds around and work on signs. 4455 03:30:38,720 --> 03:30:40,720 And then uh we come to purchasing for 4456 03:30:40,720 --> 03:30:44,239 the general fund, $663,000. 4457 03:30:44,239 --> 03:30:47,439 You'll see animal control patrol, K9, 4458 03:30:47,439 --> 03:30:49,520 some sport utility vehicles. uh some of 4459 03:30:49,520 --> 03:30:52,800 those are hybrid then uh uh some 4460 03:30:52,800 --> 03:30:55,680 undercover vehicles there. 4461 03:30:55,680 --> 03:30:59,439 So the request for the general fund uh 4462 03:30:59,439 --> 03:31:02,080 is just over a million dollars. There's 4463 03:31:02,080 --> 03:31:05,920 a quick breakdown there. 4464 03:31:05,920 --> 03:31:08,960 Move into uh 4465 03:31:08,960 --> 03:31:12,159 hold on that was for purchasing 4466 03:31:12,159 --> 03:31:14,560 and then the total request is just under 4467 03:31:14,560 --> 03:31:21,189 1.5 million. 4468 03:31:21,199 --> 03:31:24,000 If I can just highlight here perhaps 4469 03:31:24,000 --> 03:31:26,159 especially for those that are in the 4470 03:31:26,159 --> 03:31:28,560 council, you'll notice a kind of a 4471 03:31:28,560 --> 03:31:34,720 multi-pronged approach. And we base this approach off of trying to balance 4472 03:31:34,720 --> 03:31:37,279 cash flow versus what's the best deal 4473 03:31:37,279 --> 03:31:40,880 versus what we can manage or uh you know 4474 03:31:40,880 --> 03:31:44,319 where the warranties are at and 4475 03:31:44,319 --> 03:31:47,760 look at all of that on a vehicle per 4476 03:31:47,760 --> 03:31:52,399 vehicle basis to then yeah I can 4477 03:31:52,399 --> 03:31:54,000 post 4478 03:31:54,000 --> 03:31:55,840 >> I did read the spreadsheet just so you 4479 03:31:55,840 --> 03:31:59,840 know go through all I reading between 4480 03:31:59,840 --> 03:32:02,399 the lines there. Um, 4481 03:32:02,399 --> 03:32:04,399 are you saying that because sometimes it 4482 03:32:04,399 --> 03:32:06,000 makes more sense to lease and sometimes 4483 03:32:06,000 --> 03:32:07,680 it makes more sense to buy 4484 03:32:07,680 --> 03:32:10,800 >> and question. It's a case by case kind 4485 03:32:10,800 --> 03:32:11,840 of thing and that's why we have some 4486 03:32:11,840 --> 03:32:13,040 leases and some purchases. 4487 03:32:13,040 --> 03:32:14,640 >> Exactly. 4488 03:32:14,640 --> 03:32:16,399 >> And I'll add to that as well that you 4489 03:32:16,399 --> 03:32:18,319 mentioned uh mentioned that enterprise 4490 03:32:18,319 --> 03:32:20,000 funds will often times purchase newer 4491 03:32:20,000 --> 03:32:23,199 view new vehicles then after uh being 4492 03:32:23,199 --> 03:32:26,080 lightly used we will then ship them down 4493 03:32:26,080 --> 03:32:28,479 to other including general fund 4494 03:32:28,479 --> 03:32:29,520 departments. 4495 03:32:29,520 --> 03:32:32,960 to what was it? Two trucks or so,000. 4496 03:32:32,960 --> 03:32:33,359 It's 4497 03:32:33,359 --> 03:32:35,520 >> one of those situations. Our new truck 4498 03:32:35,520 --> 03:32:37,359 is their used truck. 4499 03:32:37,359 --> 03:32:39,600 >> Yeah. 4500 03:32:39,600 --> 03:32:40,960 >> Like brother, big brother 4501 03:32:40,960 --> 03:32:43,600 >> cozy coupe or something. That's how my 4502 03:32:43,600 --> 03:32:45,920 kids feel about 4503 03:32:45,920 --> 03:32:47,520 >> Chris's also giving me a couple of 4504 03:32:47,520 --> 03:32:49,293 sweaters. 4505 03:32:49,293 --> 03:32:54,469 [laughter] 4506 03:32:54,479 --> 03:32:55,840 » Thank you. That uh should we go into 4507 03:32:55,840 --> 03:32:57,520 enterprise funds real quick? 4508 03:32:57,520 --> 03:33:00,319 >> Yes. saving quicker. 4509 03:33:00,319 --> 03:33:02,960 Um, as there it's pretty consistent year 4510 03:33:02,960 --> 03:33:04,879 to year uh with storm water. We have 4511 03:33:04,879 --> 03:33:07,279 syncing funds where we're saving our 4512 03:33:07,279 --> 03:33:10,879 vehicles on buyback programs when we we 4513 03:33:10,879 --> 03:33:12,480 purchase and we fill in three years. So, 4514 03:33:12,480 --> 03:33:13,119 you'll see 4515 03:33:13,119 --> 03:33:16,320 >> fouryear threeyear fouryear estimations 4516 03:33:16,320 --> 03:33:18,400 of the sinking. Are you is that you're 4517 03:33:18,400 --> 03:33:20,799 meeting that dollar amount and that's an 4518 03:33:20,799 --> 03:33:22,879 adequate time frame? 4519 03:33:22,879 --> 03:33:24,719 >> Yes. Like that jet roer we've been 4520 03:33:24,719 --> 03:33:27,119 saving um for two years already and this 4521 03:33:27,119 --> 03:33:29,039 is the third year. third year pays for 4522 03:33:29,039 --> 03:33:30,879 it and you're still on track with what 4523 03:33:30,879 --> 03:33:32,160 do you need it and 4524 03:33:32,160 --> 03:33:33,760 >> most good 4525 03:33:33,760 --> 03:33:36,719 >> um most often that's the case we do have 4526 03:33:36,719 --> 03:33:38,080 a generator at the very end of this 4527 03:33:38,080 --> 03:33:39,359 presentation where we had to bump it one 4528 03:33:39,359 --> 03:33:41,359 more year found the pricing was a bit 4529 03:33:41,359 --> 03:33:45,279 more anticipated but anyway I'd say 4530 03:33:45,279 --> 03:33:49,920 things crystal ball is pretty darn good 4531 03:33:49,920 --> 03:33:53,279 to do most out on the final year but yes 4532 03:33:53,279 --> 03:33:54,879 there are exceptions to them 4533 03:33:54,879 --> 03:33:58,320 >> yeah it's always nice to have the bank 4534 03:33:58,320 --> 03:34:00,561 already uh you know already sinking fund 4535 03:34:00,561 --> 03:34:06,799 with a big chunk of that ready to go. So 4536 03:34:06,799 --> 03:34:12,709 here's the breakdown for streets. 4537 03:34:12,719 --> 03:34:15,680 Here's water reclamation. 4538 03:34:15,680 --> 03:34:17,520 Couple big ones is a jet roer and the 4539 03:34:17,520 --> 03:34:19,600 bottom one there a camera van inspection 4540 03:34:19,600 --> 03:34:21,920 van for this first 4541 03:34:21,920 --> 03:34:27,189 and then the water department. Um, 4542 03:34:27,199 --> 03:34:29,039 a little bit bigger request than the 4543 03:34:29,039 --> 03:34:32,390 other funds. 4544 03:34:32,400 --> 03:34:34,160 Total for enterprise funds is just under 4545 03:34:34,160 --> 03:34:36,959 2 million. 4546 03:34:36,959 --> 03:34:39,760 Here's a tenure history if you're uh 4547 03:34:39,760 --> 03:34:42,160 this is all on the on the spreadsheet 4548 03:34:42,160 --> 03:34:50,070 too on sheets four and five. So, 4549 03:34:50,080 --> 03:34:51,600 and that's that's the end of the 4550 03:34:51,600 --> 03:34:56,000 presentation. um $3.4 million request 4551 03:34:56,000 --> 03:34:59,439 for vehicle replacement this year. 4552 03:34:59,439 --> 03:35:00,879 >> Any questions? 4553 03:35:00,879 --> 03:35:02,719 >> How's that working out maintenance-wise? 4554 03:35:02,719 --> 03:35:04,480 Are we still are we saving money then 4555 03:35:04,480 --> 03:35:06,639 because we're replacing we're not having 4556 03:35:06,639 --> 03:35:08,480 any I mean I keep hearing all these new 4557 03:35:08,480 --> 03:35:10,561 vehicles now have so much tech that they 4558 03:35:10,561 --> 03:35:12,080 break down sooner or they have issues 4559 03:35:12,080 --> 03:35:14,000 sooner. Is that do we need to worry 4560 03:35:14,000 --> 03:35:15,760 about that or are we doing fine? 4561 03:35:15,760 --> 03:35:18,799 >> Um have to accelerate purchase sooner? 4562 03:35:18,799 --> 03:35:20,400 Well, in some of some of the vehicles we 4563 03:35:20,400 --> 03:35:24,080 do like the yellow iron are back we we 4564 03:35:24,080 --> 03:35:25,680 purchased but then we flip in three 4565 03:35:25,680 --> 03:35:28,000 years and maintenance is is in that 4566 03:35:28,000 --> 03:35:30,320 program. The least vehicles also kind of 4567 03:35:30,320 --> 03:35:33,039 helps take care of that. Uh but there's 4568 03:35:33,039 --> 03:35:34,400 more and more vehicles. Yeah, they're 4569 03:35:34,400 --> 03:35:35,680 getting a little bit scarier as they 4570 03:35:35,680 --> 03:35:38,879 come. Um we have a few hybrids and if we 4571 03:35:38,879 --> 03:35:40,320 have an issue with those, they'll 4572 03:35:40,320 --> 03:35:42,000 probably just go to the dealer. But so 4573 03:35:42,000 --> 03:35:45,199 far they've held up pretty good. 4574 03:35:45,199 --> 03:35:46,799 We take a look at the warranties that 4575 03:35:46,799 --> 03:35:50,480 are offered on CFS too and that we try 4576 03:35:50,480 --> 03:35:52,400 to stay within warranty and something 4577 03:35:52,400 --> 03:35:54,480 maybe comes up higher on the list to 4578 03:35:54,480 --> 03:35:58,561 replace if warranties on bigger aspects 4579 03:35:58,561 --> 03:36:00,879 of it 4580 03:36:00,879 --> 03:36:03,920 at the end of the term. 4581 03:36:03,920 --> 03:36:05,680 >> How's the if you want to talk about the 4582 03:36:05,680 --> 03:36:08,719 order bank has that timing improved at 4583 03:36:08,719 --> 03:36:09,439 all? 4584 03:36:09,439 --> 03:36:12,639 >> Yeah, it has improved a lot. uh CO threw 4585 03:36:12,639 --> 03:36:14,400 some curve balls and it was hard to get 4586 03:36:14,400 --> 03:36:16,879 vehicles. I had to kind of do things a 4587 03:36:16,879 --> 03:36:19,279 little differently, but now things are 4588 03:36:19,279 --> 03:36:22,480 steady. The order banks uh been open for 4589 03:36:22,480 --> 03:36:24,799 months. Most of them are closed now, but 4590 03:36:24,799 --> 03:36:28,160 they'll reopen pretty soon. 4591 03:36:28,160 --> 03:36:32,160 It's it's a lot less stressful that 4592 03:36:32,160 --> 03:36:34,799 build times. We've seen some of the one 4593 03:36:34,799 --> 03:36:37,359 ton forts come in in about two two and a 4594 03:36:37,359 --> 03:36:39,760 half months, which is incredible. 4595 03:36:39,760 --> 03:36:43,439 Uh during the co days we were waiting 4596 03:36:43,439 --> 03:36:45,680 sometimes around a year. 4597 03:36:45,680 --> 03:36:46,719 >> Yeah. 4598 03:36:46,719 --> 03:36:48,719 >> And the only reason I bring that up 4599 03:36:48,719 --> 03:36:50,561 Quinn you mentioned about capital 4600 03:36:50,561 --> 03:36:53,199 projects and when almost all of that 4601 03:36:53,199 --> 03:36:55,439 money does get spent in that fiscal 4602 03:36:55,439 --> 03:36:57,039 year. 4603 03:36:57,039 --> 03:36:59,520 There are a few that maybe 4604 03:36:59,520 --> 03:37:01,279 near the end of the fiscal year and so 4605 03:37:01,279 --> 03:37:03,600 we might not get them done in the fiscal 4606 03:37:03,600 --> 03:37:05,039 year. It may happen right at the 4607 03:37:05,039 --> 03:37:06,799 beginning of the next fiscal year but 4608 03:37:06,799 --> 03:37:11,510 usually does not go much beyond that. 4609 03:37:11,520 --> 03:37:13,279 I say that obviously there's a large 4610 03:37:13,279 --> 03:37:15,359 amount of that 3.4 million as you saw 4611 03:37:15,359 --> 03:37:19,039 that were sinking fund related bigger 4612 03:37:19,039 --> 03:37:20,959 vehicles. So it's not that entire 3 4613 03:37:20,959 --> 03:37:23,600 million like fire engines and jet rotors 4614 03:37:23,600 --> 03:37:24,639 and stuff maybe 4615 03:37:24,639 --> 03:37:27,119 >> the ones we truly intend to purchase 4616 03:37:27,119 --> 03:37:30,799 those things that those ones do happen. 4617 03:37:30,799 --> 03:37:34,160 >> Thank you track of all of that. 4618 03:37:34,160 --> 03:37:36,561 >> Welcome. Thanks everybody for your help. 4619 03:37:36,561 --> 03:37:38,639 It's been a It's always a really 4620 03:37:38,639 --> 03:37:41,199 involved process. 4621 03:37:41,199 --> 03:37:43,039 >> He's done a phenomenal job over the last 4622 03:37:43,039 --> 03:37:44,959 several years on this. Every year it 4623 03:37:44,959 --> 03:37:47,840 gets better and better. So, he pays a 4624 03:37:47,840 --> 03:37:49,760 lot of attention to detail. He has a 4625 03:37:49,760 --> 03:37:52,561 great staff. Robbie Robbie is here right 4626 03:37:52,561 --> 03:37:53,520 now. And and Sean 4627 03:37:53,520 --> 03:37:55,439 >> and Sean, sorry. Any was there anyone 4628 03:37:55,439 --> 03:37:58,240 else? 4629 03:37:58,240 --> 03:37:58,799 >> Thank you. 4630 03:37:58,799 --> 03:38:00,160 >> Question and maybe you already answered 4631 03:38:00,160 --> 03:38:02,160 this while I was out. How many vehicles 4632 03:38:02,160 --> 03:38:05,359 are in our fleet? 4633 03:38:05,359 --> 03:38:07,279 Is that a fair question? [laughter] 4634 03:38:07,279 --> 03:38:10,240 >> Yeah, there's non more than a lot. I 4635 03:38:10,240 --> 03:38:13,760 >> actually actually ran a report today and 4636 03:38:13,760 --> 03:38:15,199 of all the vehicles and equipment 4637 03:38:15,199 --> 03:38:17,359 including small equipment we have at 4638 03:38:17,359 --> 03:38:20,629 100,361. 4639 03:38:20,639 --> 03:38:23,279 But most people are more interested in 4640 03:38:23,279 --> 03:38:26,000 um like vehicles we drive. We have about 4641 03:38:26,000 --> 03:38:29,039 350 vehicles that we drive. We have 4642 03:38:29,039 --> 03:38:32,561 about another uh 250 vehicles when you 4643 03:38:32,561 --> 03:38:35,279 look at riding mowers, trailers, 4644 03:38:35,279 --> 03:38:38,000 um backhos and different things like 4645 03:38:38,000 --> 03:38:43,600 that. So about 550 600 uh 4646 03:38:43,600 --> 03:38:45,199 bigger type vehicles and then a lot of 4647 03:38:45,199 --> 03:38:48,480 small stuff. 4648 03:38:48,480 --> 03:38:51,510 >> So 4649 03:38:51,520 --> 03:38:52,879 >> Thank you. 4650 03:38:52,879 --> 03:38:54,561 for your patience waiting for 4651 03:38:54,561 --> 03:38:55,039 us. 4652 03:38:55,039 --> 03:38:56,480 >> You bet. 4653 03:38:56,480 --> 03:38:58,000 We could ask you what you think about 4654 03:38:58,000 --> 03:39:00,027 occupancy. 4655 03:39:00,027 --> 03:39:06,150 [laughter] 4656 03:39:06,160 --> 03:39:09,854 » He bases it on seat belts. 4657 03:39:09,854 --> 03:39:10,639 [laughter] 4658 03:39:10,639 --> 03:39:14,629 >> Oh, that was 4659 03:39:14,639 --> 03:39:18,470 seat belts in each. 4660 03:39:18,480 --> 03:39:22,310 » Excuse you for a second. 4661 03:39:22,320 --> 03:39:24,000 » All right. Now we go to the streets 4662 03:39:24,000 --> 03:39:26,480 portion. Bill, thank you for your 4663 03:39:26,480 --> 03:39:29,840 patience. And what are your thoughts on 4664 03:39:29,840 --> 03:39:32,240 those streets? 4665 03:39:32,240 --> 03:39:33,359 There we go. 4666 03:39:33,359 --> 03:39:34,160 >> Oh, the tough 4667 03:39:34,160 --> 03:39:35,840 >> I don't want to pass the tough utility 4668 03:39:35,840 --> 03:39:37,440 fee. Can you tell us about that tonight? 4669 03:39:37,440 --> 03:39:40,080 >> Yeah, I'll be able to. Um, does anyone 4670 03:39:40,080 --> 03:39:41,920 need a break? 4671 03:39:41,920 --> 03:39:44,798 >> 610, but uh how much time do I have, 4672 03:39:44,798 --> 03:39:45,280 Brian? 4673 03:39:45,280 --> 03:39:47,520 >> Five minutes. 4674 03:39:47,520 --> 03:39:50,000 uh definitely introduce it and share 4675 03:39:50,000 --> 03:39:52,560 maybe kind of the major milestones from 4676 03:39:52,560 --> 03:39:54,638 here to go through this full process. 4677 03:39:54,638 --> 03:39:57,200 >> I'll start with uh 4678 03:39:57,200 --> 03:39:59,280 so um what are we calling it down there 4679 03:39:59,280 --> 03:40:03,760 at Sarah now? Uh the project with the arts and all of 4680 03:40:03,760 --> 03:40:06,000 that heart. 4681 03:40:06,000 --> 03:40:08,958 So, so the heart of Warham Part of that 4682 03:40:08,958 --> 03:40:11,600 component could be funded in part by a 4683 03:40:11,600 --> 03:40:15,200 tough revenue source which is 720 South 4684 03:40:15,200 --> 03:40:18,480 Street which might cost around $100,000 4685 03:40:18,480 --> 03:40:21,680 to do an overlay or about uh you know 4686 03:40:21,680 --> 03:40:23,680 significantly more uh to do a 4687 03:40:23,680 --> 03:40:26,000 reconstruct. So part of the vision for 4688 03:40:26,000 --> 03:40:29,280 that I think is that team Bill and I 4689 03:40:29,280 --> 03:40:30,958 team. So first of all this is this is 4690 03:40:30,958 --> 03:40:33,694 Bill Street. Sorry, Bill Peterson. 4691 03:40:33,694 --> 03:40:35,680 [laughter] 4692 03:40:35,680 --> 03:40:38,000 straight and then I feel straight up. 4693 03:40:38,000 --> 03:40:41,350 He's not 4694 03:40:41,360 --> 03:40:44,798 » great Mary Street. So anyway, um Bill 4695 03:40:44,798 --> 03:40:46,560 and I started probably about this, you 4696 03:40:46,560 --> 03:40:48,080 know, within like a month or two of each 4697 03:40:48,080 --> 03:40:49,040 other. 4698 03:40:49,040 --> 03:40:50,240 >> Been a minute. 4699 03:40:50,240 --> 03:40:54,080 >> Yeah. 199 1994. 4700 03:40:54,080 --> 03:40:55,760 >> Yeah. We have two we have two division 4701 03:40:55,760 --> 03:40:57,680 managers that have announced retirement. 4702 03:40:57,680 --> 03:40:59,920 So out of the hundreds of years of of 4703 03:40:59,920 --> 03:41:04,480 expertise we have there, two of them are now officially leaving. uh one's our 4704 03:41:04,480 --> 03:41:08,160 storm water and that is uh Rick Sabi and 4705 03:41:08,160 --> 03:41:10,240 then GIS not to get off track here but 4706 03:41:10,240 --> 03:41:12,718 and then also Cody Stagel is our GIS 4707 03:41:12,718 --> 03:41:14,798 first GIS division manager in the 4708 03:41:14,798 --> 03:41:16,958 history of OR and so we have two 4709 03:41:16,958 --> 03:41:19,520 vacancies there and also I have Tyler 4710 03:41:19,520 --> 03:41:21,760 that was stolen by 4711 03:41:21,760 --> 03:41:23,600 Rice. 4712 03:41:23,600 --> 03:41:26,400 We got some things to do in any case. 4713 03:41:26,400 --> 03:41:28,798 Tough this tough fee we I introduced it 4714 03:41:28,798 --> 03:41:32,480 to you a couple weeks ago. Um, 4715 03:41:32,480 --> 03:41:35,600 I have Bill here to help out with 4716 03:41:35,600 --> 03:41:42,310 questions. Thank you to the 4717 03:41:42,320 --> 03:41:44,320 What was mine? I thought anything else. 4718 03:41:44,320 --> 03:41:47,520 Okay, very good. Thank you. Um, I'm 4719 03:41:47,520 --> 03:41:48,718 going to zip through some of these at 4720 03:41:48,718 --> 03:41:50,638 the very beginning and Bill can answer 4721 03:41:50,638 --> 03:41:52,240 some detailed questions that you might 4722 03:41:52,240 --> 03:41:55,040 have. Today we have how many millions 4723 03:41:55,040 --> 03:41:57,440 tens of millions of square feet of 4724 03:41:57,440 --> 03:41:58,798 asphalt do you think we have in the 4725 03:41:58,798 --> 03:42:02,798 city? odd. It's 50 50 million. If we 4726 03:42:02,798 --> 03:42:04,718 were to construct them all today, 4727 03:42:04,718 --> 03:42:07,120 reconstruct everything today, it's $8 a 4728 03:42:07,120 --> 03:42:10,240 square foot. What is that? 4729 03:42:10,240 --> 03:42:13,120 >> That's a lot. 400 400 million, I think, 4730 03:42:13,120 --> 03:42:14,638 if I doing the math right. 4731 03:42:14,638 --> 03:42:17,760 >> And then for So, and 75% of our asphalt 4732 03:42:17,760 --> 03:42:20,480 that we own right now today is local 4733 03:42:20,480 --> 03:42:22,000 streets. And that's where we're showing 4734 03:42:22,000 --> 03:42:23,600 that we have significant aging and 4735 03:42:23,600 --> 03:42:25,840 concerns. We've focused on commercials, 4736 03:42:25,840 --> 03:42:28,560 our uh connectors and arterials. This 4737 03:42:28,560 --> 03:42:31,680 map here shows uh anything that's about 4738 03:42:31,680 --> 03:42:35,680 60% or 50% of our roads in local roads 4739 03:42:35,680 --> 03:42:38,560 are over 50 to 60 years old today and 4740 03:42:38,560 --> 03:42:40,160 we've stretched the life as long as we 4741 03:42:40,160 --> 03:42:43,520 could. Uh we mentioned to you last time 4742 03:42:43,520 --> 03:42:46,240 about the condition index and so forth. 4743 03:42:46,240 --> 03:42:49,280 Highend condition indexes from 90 to 100 4744 03:42:49,280 --> 03:42:52,638 or low as all 29 to zero. Our roads 4745 03:42:52,638 --> 03:42:54,320 primarily right now for our locals are 4746 03:42:54,320 --> 03:42:56,638 in this category of fair. every year 4747 03:42:56,638 --> 03:43:00,320 they degrade about uh 3% so they're 4748 03:43:00,320 --> 03:43:01,520 going to be approaching the poor 4749 03:43:01,520 --> 03:43:03,680 category at which point we might need to 4750 03:43:03,680 --> 03:43:05,920 reconstruct. So our plan right now is 4751 03:43:05,920 --> 03:43:07,920 with the help of this uh this tough fee 4752 03:43:07,920 --> 03:43:10,320 is that we'll be able to extend the life 4753 03:43:10,320 --> 03:43:12,080 beyond what we see here if we don't do 4754 03:43:12,080 --> 03:43:17,200 any maintenance to be on it here. Um the 4755 03:43:17,200 --> 03:43:19,280 loads when they reach uh reach a certain 4756 03:43:19,280 --> 03:43:22,240 condition though um and degraded then we 4757 03:43:22,240 --> 03:43:24,638 need to repair uh not just repair them 4758 03:43:24,638 --> 03:43:27,040 we need to perhaps overlay them or 4759 03:43:27,040 --> 03:43:28,718 replace them altogether and reconstruct 4760 03:43:28,718 --> 03:43:31,360 them. This shows a condition index. Uh 4761 03:43:31,360 --> 03:43:34,160 red is meaning they've failed. Green 4762 03:43:34,160 --> 03:43:36,560 bright green means that they're perfect. 4763 03:43:36,560 --> 03:43:38,560 We don't have any bright greens but we 4764 03:43:38,560 --> 03:43:40,560 do have some reds that are popping up. 4765 03:43:40,560 --> 03:43:42,240 Everything in between is somewhere 4766 03:43:42,240 --> 03:43:45,840 around 60 or so 50 on our OCI. We're 4767 03:43:45,840 --> 03:43:48,080 getting to a critical point right now in 4768 03:43:48,080 --> 03:43:50,638 our in our street system. 4769 03:43:50,638 --> 03:43:52,878 So, what's what do the different OCI 4770 03:43:52,878 --> 03:43:55,360 conditions look like? This is an OCI 90 4771 03:43:55,360 --> 03:43:59,120 to 100. That's 89 to 70. Looking at this 4772 03:43:59,120 --> 03:44:02,160 one here, it's 50 to 69. 30 to 49. This 4773 03:44:02,160 --> 03:44:03,520 is starting to get to the point where we 4774 03:44:03,520 --> 03:44:05,840 might need to reconstruct. 4775 03:44:05,840 --> 03:44:06,798 And I'm going to show you some 4776 03:44:06,798 --> 03:44:10,000 reconstruction examples on here. Um on 4777 03:44:10,000 --> 03:44:11,680 17 South, we're doing a project down 4778 03:44:11,680 --> 03:44:13,760 there today. We are reconstructing this 4779 03:44:13,760 --> 03:44:15,440 after we put in a new water line and 4780 03:44:15,440 --> 03:44:17,920 sewer line in this street from 800 East 4781 03:44:17,920 --> 03:44:20,480 over to State Street. This is another 4782 03:44:20,480 --> 03:44:22,560 one that's on our list. If we had the 4783 03:44:22,560 --> 03:44:24,718 funding available um to do to 4784 03:44:24,718 --> 03:44:27,040 reconstruct this on Northwest from 1580 4785 03:44:27,040 --> 03:44:29,760 South to 18800 South, this street is 4786 03:44:29,760 --> 03:44:33,200 basically glued together. Uh this is a 4787 03:44:33,200 --> 03:44:34,400 lot of gorilla glue that we're going to 4788 03:44:34,400 --> 03:44:37,440 use in here. This is crack sealing. This 4789 03:44:37,440 --> 03:44:39,360 is what This is amazing though. This is 4790 03:44:39,360 --> 03:44:41,760 a cheap dollar amount to extend the life 4791 03:44:41,760 --> 03:44:43,840 of the road. It doesn't look pretty. 4792 03:44:43,840 --> 03:44:47,200 It's lipstick, but uh it does extend the 4793 03:44:47,200 --> 03:44:48,638 life quite dramatically. 4794 03:44:48,638 --> 03:44:50,798 >> I am the behold. I am the beholder. 4795 03:44:50,798 --> 03:44:56,788 Chris, this is pretty. What do you 4796 03:44:56,798 --> 03:45:00,150 » residing 4797 03:45:00,160 --> 03:45:03,120 skateboard? You would hurt yourself on 4798 03:45:03,120 --> 03:45:07,190 these terror attacks for 4799 03:45:07,200 --> 03:45:11,040 creative care. optimistic, right? This 4800 03:45:11,040 --> 03:45:13,680 is a failed road here in 600 North. You 4801 03:45:13,680 --> 03:45:14,798 can see on this one, we already have 4802 03:45:14,798 --> 03:45:16,320 curved guttered sidewalk in both sides. 4803 03:45:16,320 --> 03:45:17,760 We look we're looking to do that. This 4804 03:45:17,760 --> 03:45:21,760 is this is really rough. Um, this one is 4805 03:45:21,760 --> 03:45:23,680 a really interesting example that Bill 4806 03:45:23,680 --> 03:45:25,680 prepared. This picture on the left is a 4807 03:45:25,680 --> 03:45:27,680 great example of what slurry seals will 4808 03:45:27,680 --> 03:45:31,840 hide. Okay, over here 4809 03:45:31,840 --> 03:45:34,560 that is the same street 4810 03:45:34,560 --> 03:45:36,798 like a year later. It looks like this. 4811 03:45:36,798 --> 03:45:38,560 That's a skin patch. That's all we've 4812 03:45:38,560 --> 03:45:41,440 done there. It looks nice, but it's 4813 03:45:41,440 --> 03:45:42,718 going to look like this in a short 4814 03:45:42,718 --> 03:45:44,160 amount of time. Bill, how many years 4815 03:45:44,160 --> 03:45:46,080 will it take? One one or two years to 4816 03:45:46,080 --> 03:45:47,040 look like this again? 4817 03:45:47,040 --> 03:45:48,638 >> Oh, a couple. Yeah, 4818 03:45:48,638 --> 03:45:51,200 >> couple of years. So, we're just we're 4819 03:45:51,200 --> 03:45:53,040 just kind of stretching it along as the 4820 03:45:53,040 --> 03:45:55,280 best we can. So, these are all examples 4821 03:45:55,280 --> 03:45:56,718 of roads that we're planning on 4822 03:45:56,718 --> 03:45:58,798 reconstructing that are reaching that 4823 03:45:58,798 --> 03:46:02,400 level below probably OCI of 40 or so. 4824 03:46:02,400 --> 03:46:06,080 70% of our streets are local. That's 35 4825 03:46:06,080 --> 03:46:08,560 million square feet. Um, if we were to 4826 03:46:08,560 --> 03:46:10,560 reconstruct all of those, that's $8 a 4827 03:46:10,560 --> 03:46:12,560 square foot versus $2 a square foot of 4828 03:46:12,560 --> 03:46:14,480 an overlay. So, we're looking at 4829 03:46:14,480 --> 03:46:16,638 targeting these roads to being overlaid 4830 03:46:16,638 --> 03:46:18,798 altogether. You might ask, what is our 4831 03:46:18,798 --> 03:46:20,798 plan? This is our 5-year plan right now. 4832 03:46:20,798 --> 03:46:23,120 We have a plan for the next 25 years for 4833 03:46:23,120 --> 03:46:25,200 every single road in the city, every 4834 03:46:25,200 --> 03:46:28,160 single road segment. This is an example 4835 03:46:28,160 --> 03:46:30,160 I'm going to blow up a little bit here. 4836 03:46:30,160 --> 03:46:32,400 If we had $4 million for asphalt, this 4837 03:46:32,400 --> 03:46:34,878 is what we would do for overlays over 4838 03:46:34,878 --> 03:46:37,760 the next five years. 4839 03:46:37,760 --> 03:46:40,400 Um, I mentioned this already, but 35 4840 03:46:40,400 --> 03:46:42,718 million square ft of asphalt is local 4841 03:46:42,718 --> 03:46:46,240 streets and another 15 or 14 million is 4842 03:46:46,240 --> 03:46:48,080 arterials and collectors that we have a 4843 03:46:48,080 --> 03:46:50,000 really good handle on right now. The 4844 03:46:50,000 --> 03:46:52,638 locals is where we need to focus. 4845 03:46:52,638 --> 03:46:54,240 >> Can I just ask one quick question? I'm 4846 03:46:54,240 --> 03:46:56,320 just curious, Chris. do the who are the 4847 03:46:56,320 --> 03:46:57,760 employees that do all this patch stuff, 4848 03:46:57,760 --> 03:46:59,360 the slurry and then who makes all the 4849 03:46:59,360 --> 03:47:00,718 squiggly lines? Are they Om city 4850 03:47:00,718 --> 03:47:02,400 employees or is that contracted out? 4851 03:47:02,400 --> 03:47:04,320 >> Contracted out. 4852 03:47:04,320 --> 03:47:05,840 >> Bill manages all of that. 4853 03:47:05,840 --> 03:47:06,240 >> Okay. 4854 03:47:06,240 --> 03:47:08,718 >> We do we do a lot of asphalt work in the 4855 03:47:08,718 --> 03:47:11,040 city. We How many tons of asphalt did we 4856 03:47:11,040 --> 03:47:12,240 put down last year? 4857 03:47:12,240 --> 03:47:13,920 >> Uh right around 4,000 4858 03:47:13,920 --> 03:47:16,000 >> 4,000 tons. And then how many cubic 4859 03:47:16,000 --> 03:47:18,240 yards or of of concrete? 4860 03:47:18,240 --> 03:47:19,680 >> Concrete right around 800. 4861 03:47:19,680 --> 03:47:22,958 >> 800. And so they have a fantastic crew 4862 03:47:22,958 --> 03:47:24,958 that hits that. They're on the ready to 4863 03:47:24,958 --> 03:47:27,680 handle issues, not to reconstruct a new 4864 03:47:27,680 --> 03:47:30,080 road per se, but to make sure that the 4865 03:47:30,080 --> 03:47:32,400 road is safe to traverse at any time. 4866 03:47:32,400 --> 03:47:33,840 And if we have soft spots and things 4867 03:47:33,840 --> 03:47:35,120 like that, we need 4868 03:47:35,120 --> 03:47:36,798 >> Yeah, they'll go through all these roads 4869 03:47:36,798 --> 03:47:40,480 uh prior year before a slurry and level 4870 03:47:40,480 --> 03:47:44,034 them. Uh remove any areas that are bad. 4871 03:47:44,034 --> 03:47:45,280 [clears throat] If they need a crown, 4872 03:47:45,280 --> 03:47:47,440 they might run the paper cross put a 4873 03:47:47,440 --> 03:47:49,600 crown before it gets a slurry. So, but 4874 03:47:49,600 --> 03:47:52,878 we are doing the better. 4875 03:47:52,878 --> 03:47:55,440 So we do more targeted, smaller scope of 4876 03:47:55,440 --> 03:47:57,120 work. 4877 03:47:57,120 --> 03:48:00,718 >> Yeah. And we're quick to react and make 4878 03:48:00,718 --> 03:48:03,600 it so it's acceptable level of so we can 4879 03:48:03,600 --> 03:48:06,240 get ramps that we can talk to the curbs 4880 03:48:06,240 --> 03:48:07,120 in. 4881 03:48:07,120 --> 03:48:08,480 >> This is what we're targeting right now 4882 03:48:08,480 --> 03:48:09,840 for concrete. When you're looking at a 4883 03:48:09,840 --> 03:48:11,200 road, it's not just asphalt. We have to 4884 03:48:11,200 --> 03:48:13,040 look at the curb gutter sidewalk, ADA 4885 03:48:13,040 --> 03:48:15,840 ramps, handicap ramps, and so forth. Of 4886 03:48:15,840 --> 03:48:18,000 all of our high hazard rated sidewalks, 4887 03:48:18,000 --> 03:48:21,680 we got about 3,100 ft of that. And then 4888 03:48:21,680 --> 03:48:23,920 for our missing ramps that where we have 4889 03:48:23,920 --> 03:48:26,160 existing sidewalks but we don't have ADA 4890 03:48:26,160 --> 03:48:29,840 ramps, that's about 400 of those. And so 4891 03:48:29,840 --> 03:48:33,280 that breakdown comes to about almost $4 4892 03:48:33,280 --> 03:48:34,958 million is what we're looking at. And 4893 03:48:34,958 --> 03:48:38,798 we're proposing to spend about uh 10% of 4894 03:48:38,798 --> 03:48:41,840 that a year. So that' be about 400,000 4895 03:48:41,840 --> 03:48:45,040 just on concrete alone. We have a plan 4896 03:48:45,040 --> 03:48:47,280 right now. This is year one that goes 4897 03:48:47,280 --> 03:48:50,958 out 27 26 different road segments in the 4898 03:48:50,958 --> 03:48:53,600 city. The first four or five are about 4899 03:48:53,600 --> 03:48:55,440 $8 a square foot. Everything else is 4900 03:48:55,440 --> 03:48:57,600 about $2 a square foot. Those are all 4901 03:48:57,600 --> 03:49:00,638 being escalated uh for $5 or 5% a year 4902 03:49:00,638 --> 03:49:02,798 over the next every year for the next 4903 03:49:02,798 --> 03:49:05,120 five years. This is what we'll be doing. 4904 03:49:05,120 --> 03:49:08,160 If we receive tough revenues uh for $4 4905 03:49:08,160 --> 03:49:10,560 million, we would be spending about 4906 03:49:10,560 --> 03:49:12,560 $336,000 4907 03:49:12,560 --> 03:49:15,280 three about $400,000 on concrete, 4908 03:49:15,280 --> 03:49:18,798 $400,000 for admin, and about 3.2 4909 03:49:18,798 --> 03:49:21,440 million on asphalt. 4910 03:49:21,440 --> 03:49:24,560 Similarly, in phase two or or the next 4911 03:49:24,560 --> 03:49:28,480 year, we have another 26 projects or so, 4912 03:49:28,480 --> 03:49:31,440 all identified on our map. This is phase 4913 03:49:31,440 --> 03:49:33,600 three. Everything's identified. We have 4914 03:49:33,600 --> 03:49:36,480 48 projects on this year. We have 47 4915 03:49:36,480 --> 03:49:38,240 projects on this year. You can't read 4916 03:49:38,240 --> 03:49:40,480 this. I'm just saying and demonstrating 4917 03:49:40,480 --> 03:49:43,920 to you. BJ can probably, but we have a 4918 03:49:43,920 --> 03:49:46,000 plan. This plan is in place. We're at 4919 03:49:46,000 --> 03:49:48,160 the ready. As soon as the funding is 4920 03:49:48,160 --> 03:49:50,480 available, we will start executing this 4921 03:49:50,480 --> 03:49:53,440 plan. Any questions? 4922 03:49:53,440 --> 03:49:57,280 >> So, we could do that within the fiscal 4923 03:49:57,280 --> 03:49:59,920 year if the funds were available. 4924 03:49:59,920 --> 03:50:02,480 >> Yes. Yeah. 4925 03:50:02,480 --> 03:50:04,000 It's it's probably it'll probably take 4926 03:50:04,000 --> 03:50:06,560 us to handle all of these local streets 4927 03:50:06,560 --> 03:50:08,718 about 20 years 4928 03:50:08,718 --> 03:50:11,840 on this projected time frame. The longer 4929 03:50:11,840 --> 03:50:14,000 we delay, we'll go back and do it again. 4930 03:50:14,000 --> 03:50:16,560 >> Well, yes. Yes. Exactly. Rinse and 4931 03:50:16,560 --> 03:50:19,200 repeat. Every year it degrades about 3%. 4932 03:50:19,200 --> 03:50:21,360 So our score is dropping about 3% a 4933 03:50:21,360 --> 03:50:23,440 year. So after 20 years it'll go from 4934 03:50:23,440 --> 03:50:25,360 like a if it's a score of 100 today, 4935 03:50:25,360 --> 03:50:27,600 it'll drop down to about 40 by the time 4936 03:50:27,600 --> 03:50:29,920 we get to it in 20 years. 4937 03:50:29,920 --> 03:50:32,718 >> Yeah. With no surface. with no no 4938 03:50:32,718 --> 03:50:34,160 maintenance, no surface treatments and 4939 03:50:34,160 --> 03:50:36,160 so forth. But we do do that. We stretch 4940 03:50:36,160 --> 03:50:38,560 the life as best we can. Back sealing 4941 03:50:38,560 --> 03:50:41,600 surly slurry seals and so forth. We 4942 03:50:41,600 --> 03:50:43,680 started the slurry rotation. Our our 4943 03:50:43,680 --> 03:50:45,840 slurry seal rotation is every eight 4944 03:50:45,840 --> 03:50:49,760 years. It started back in 2003 4945 03:50:49,760 --> 03:50:51,760 and the recommendations in the state of 4946 03:50:51,760 --> 03:50:54,718 the street was after three slurry sills 4947 03:50:54,718 --> 03:50:58,080 it the road needs a milllay. And we are 4948 03:50:58,080 --> 03:51:00,798 currently starting our fourth uh 4949 03:51:00,798 --> 03:51:01,920 rotation. 4950 03:51:01,920 --> 03:51:04,000 >> Wow. 4951 03:51:04,000 --> 03:51:05,600 >> I'm just curious the cost the 4952 03:51:05,600 --> 03:51:07,920 inflationary cost from year to year by 4953 03:51:07,920 --> 03:51:10,958 not doing it. I mean is the cost 4954 03:51:10,958 --> 03:51:12,240 obviously goes up 4955 03:51:12,240 --> 03:51:15,200 >> compounding 5% probably on average a 4956 03:51:15,200 --> 03:51:16,798 year, 4957 03:51:16,798 --> 03:51:18,400 right? 4958 03:51:18,400 --> 03:51:21,280 We feel like this is not too aggressive 4959 03:51:21,280 --> 03:51:23,680 but it's responsible. 4960 03:51:23,680 --> 03:51:27,440 Um, and it's something that we cannot uh 4961 03:51:27,440 --> 03:51:29,440 not address. 4962 03:51:29,440 --> 03:51:32,480 We need to be progressive and take care 4963 03:51:32,480 --> 03:51:33,360 of it. 4964 03:51:33,360 --> 03:51:37,590 >> Have asphalt prices jumped? 4965 03:51:37,600 --> 03:51:40,798 » They uh I believe they jumped last year 4966 03:51:40,798 --> 03:51:43,360 by about $20. They were we were paying 4967 03:51:43,360 --> 03:51:46,160 50 and it jumped to 72. Depends on what 4968 03:51:46,160 --> 03:51:49,040 mix you're getting. 4969 03:51:49,040 --> 03:51:51,760 We're small enough that we can't 4970 03:51:51,760 --> 03:51:53,280 actually unless we're doing a big job, 4971 03:51:53,280 --> 03:51:54,878 we have to take what they're they're 4972 03:51:54,878 --> 03:51:58,000 making at Geneva 4973 03:51:58,000 --> 03:52:01,910 7. 4974 03:52:01,920 --> 03:52:03,680 » I guess you want to give the the 4975 03:52:03,680 --> 03:52:07,040 timeline of approval process from here 4976 03:52:07,040 --> 03:52:08,798 mind the council of that. 4977 03:52:08,798 --> 03:52:11,360 >> Right. So, we need to adopt a resolution 4978 03:52:11,360 --> 03:52:13,200 and ordinance that adopts the 4979 03:52:13,200 --> 03:52:15,840 transportation utility fund in the city 4980 03:52:15,840 --> 03:52:18,080 of ORM. We're working with legal on on 4981 03:52:18,080 --> 03:52:20,718 preparing that right now. Um we feel 4982 03:52:20,718 --> 03:52:22,560 like we have a pretty robust plan in 4983 03:52:22,560 --> 03:52:24,480 place to address asphalt and concrete. 4984 03:52:24,480 --> 03:52:26,240 So I think that's in place. We've 4985 03:52:26,240 --> 03:52:28,240 checked the majority of the check boxes 4986 03:52:28,240 --> 03:52:31,760 with the exception of the resolution and 4987 03:52:31,760 --> 03:52:34,798 knowing the targeted amount to do. And 4988 03:52:34,798 --> 03:52:37,680 uh and then we're also waiting on uh 4989 03:52:37,680 --> 03:52:40,560 finishing the UVU traffic study that's 4990 03:52:40,560 --> 03:52:43,600 uh started out and they uh it might be 4991 03:52:43,600 --> 03:52:45,520 windy. So, it's right on the cusp of 4992 03:52:45,520 --> 03:52:47,760 getting that finalized so we can tweak 4993 03:52:47,760 --> 03:52:49,922 the rates. 4994 03:52:49,922 --> 03:52:52,868 [clears throat] 4995 03:52:52,878 --> 03:52:54,320 » All right, Kelsey, do you have any 4996 03:52:54,320 --> 03:52:57,990 questions? 4997 03:52:58,000 --> 03:52:59,680 >> Thank you. 4998 03:52:59,680 --> 03:53:00,080 >> Great. 4999 03:53:00,080 --> 03:53:03,670 >> Thank you. 5000 03:53:03,680 --> 03:53:07,120 » All right. So, 5001 03:53:07,120 --> 03:53:09,600 thank you all. 5002 03:53:09,600 --> 03:53:11,680 Just a reminder that tomorrow we have a 5003 03:53:11,680 --> 03:53:14,798 birthday party over in the park at 6. 5004 03:53:14,798 --> 03:53:18,320 is opening the farmers market and 5005 03:53:18,320 --> 03:53:20,958 seventh birthday 5006 03:53:20,958 --> 03:53:22,958 >> and our neighbor is going to be there 5007 03:53:22,958 --> 03:53:24,560 giving out. 5008 03:53:24,560 --> 03:53:26,798 >> So, um 5009 03:53:26,798 --> 03:53:28,798 Steve, do we need a motion to adjourn? 5010 03:53:28,798 --> 03:53:29,280 >> Yes. 5011 03:53:29,280 --> 03:53:31,840 >> Okay, we need a motion to adjurnn. 5012 03:53:31,840 --> 03:53:33,600 >> We have a motion. Second. All those in 5013 03:53:33,600 --> 03:53:40,550 favor. We're see you tomorrow. 5014 03:53:40,560 --> 03:53:43,798 That was