[0:00] Australia. [laughter]
[0:04] » Hello, Governor. [laughter]
[0:08] » Mind the gap. Mind the gap.
[0:11] >> The gap.
[0:12] >> Well, we're glad to have you. It's what,
[0:15] like 10:00 there
[0:18] or something.
[0:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. 10:30.
[0:21] >> 30.
[0:22] >> Oh, okay. Well, we'll go ahead and get
[0:25] started. Our first item on our agenda is
[0:29] a presentation on the myorum update and
[0:31] it's a 10-minute presentation and then
[0:34] five minute Q&A. So, I'll turn the time
[0:36] over to our deputy city manager, Carrie
[0:38] Rug. Mayor, um we're really excited to
[0:41] return and report. We brought to you
[0:44] before we launched my OROM, the new
[0:46] platform for all residents to in
[0:49] interact with the city. Um, and we've
[0:52] got our software development project
[0:54] managers here, McKay Barton and Sarah
[0:57] Yel, and they are going to give us an
[1:00] update on how progress is going. And
[1:02] then we also brought council members um
[1:04] a sweatshirt for my arms so that we get
[1:07] our marketing out there. So, please wear
[1:09] it out, not on 100 degree weather, but
[1:10] please wear it to
[1:14] >> So, with that, I'll turn
[1:16] >> right. Welcome. you and I will say those
[1:19] are particularly comfortable sweaters.
[1:21] Not a sweater person, but I was really
[1:24] uh enjoying those.
[1:26] So, as a reminder, Carrie mentioned my
[1:28] ORM was the initiative that we launched
[1:30] back in April that helps us unify some
[1:33] of the online services that we're
[1:34] providing to our citizens um and anybody
[1:37] who wants to do business with this. make
[1:39] it a little bit more streamlined, a
[1:41] little bit more nice, a little bit more
[1:43] accessible so that it isn't as confusing
[1:45] when you're wanting to do business with
[1:46] the city of War. We launched on April
[1:50] 27th of this past year. And uh to this
[1:54] point, we've launched with a few
[1:55] applications that are already baked into
[1:57] the ecosystem. That being utilities,
[2:00] landlord licensing, project management,
[2:02] and our boards and commission site. So
[2:04] if I want to participate in any one of
[2:06] those, these services have now been
[2:08] streamlined as part of my ORM. Going
[2:10] forward, the next thing that is on the
[2:12] docket to be integrated into the system
[2:14] is our business licensing application
[2:16] and our fitness center applications. Um
[2:20] all services for the fitness center are
[2:21] going to be running through my near
[2:23] future. So
[2:26] >> sweet. Just to give you guys because
[2:28] we've been live for 11 weeks now with my
[2:31] Orum just about 11 weeks as of
[2:33] yesterday. Just to give you some numbers
[2:36] of what we've seen, we've had 4600 new
[2:40] myorum accounts created by citizens. And
[2:44] this to give you a little bit of idea,
[2:46] this is out of about 20,000 total
[2:49] utility customers we have. So we're
[2:54] almost a quarter of our utility
[2:56] customers have migrated over to the
[2:57] myorum site. We've processed almost
[3:00] 4,000 payments through the myorum site.
[3:03] This is also not including the kind of
[3:06] automatic payments to set up. So this is
[3:08] just myorum processed. And we also as
[3:11] part of the MyORAMM platform integrated
[3:13] a new fancy very secure payment
[3:17] processor that's helping us be uh more
[3:21] secure.
[3:22] We've had almost 500 new utility
[3:26] applications go through the Mayorum
[3:28] process process fire 3 in1 agents and
[3:30] then just to give you an idea of like
[3:32] the pacing here things have settled down
[3:34] a little bit. On average over the last
[3:37] two weeks, we've had 149 users log in
[3:40] per day and 40 new accounts per day.
[3:43] Averaged out over the last two weeks.
[3:44] So, it's being very heavily used right
[3:47] now. And I just want to give a big shout
[3:49] out to our 311 help center agents as
[3:52] well. They've been working super hard
[3:54] and super closely with all of our
[3:56] software engineers and they've done a
[3:58] really fantastic job of responding to
[4:00] the citizens and helping them through
[4:02] any issues they might have.
[4:04] We've been a constant communication on
[4:07] new features that the developers have
[4:09] been working with 311 to develop and
[4:11] launch. And so it's still growing. And
[4:14] like May said, we're going to add
[4:15] business licensing. We're going to add a
[4:17] fitness center. And it's going to be
[4:18] even more comprehensive in the future.
[4:23] Any questions?
[4:27] I'm so excited for this. Is so cool. Can
[4:29] you tell you said a couple more things
[4:31] are coming online, the fitness center,
[4:32] and lic. So the business licency, that's
[4:36] pretty straightforward. What kind of
[4:37] things will residents be able to do with
[4:39] the fitness center?
[4:42] >> This is things like I want to apply for
[4:44] a membership um or I want to apply for a
[4:46] subscription to a class. Uh the ability
[4:48] right now to manage those things, it's a
[4:50] little bit fragmented. If anybody's used
[4:52] that uh apt experience, it works. You
[4:55] can definitely get the job done, but it
[4:57] isn't always the neatest thing. We want
[4:58] to do is make sure that's a lot more
[5:00] simplified. So, I want to sign up for a
[5:02] cycling class. It should be a very clear
[5:04] and concise way to do that. You should
[5:06] know exactly how to do something like
[5:07] that. And this program is going to help
[5:10] facilitate things like, hey, I want to
[5:12] sign up for a new membership because
[5:14] there's a sale going on. You want to
[5:16] make sure that that's advertised and
[5:17] that it is clear what happens when
[5:19] you're actually buying that membership,
[5:21] what it all entails, what's offered to
[5:22] you, the ability to renew or cancel it.
[5:25] Uh those types of things we want to make
[5:27] sure we're
[5:29] >> This is great. I'm excited. So until the
[5:32] I saw the sign it's what November when uh the bill pay shuts down.
[5:37] >> So November we will cut over because
[5:38] right now we're running both sides
[5:40] simultaneously to help ease the
[5:42] transition for our users. In November we
[5:44] will cut over. We will close down the
[5:46] bill pay site and then we will all new
[5:50] users will need to migrate to my ORUM.
[5:52] There will still be the ability for if
[5:53] you haven't signed up after November you
[5:55] can go in you can link your account.
[5:57] None of the data will be lost. But the
[6:00] bill pay site will be taken down.
[6:02] >> Yeah,
[6:03] >> council. Are there any other questions?
[6:07] >> Awesome.
[6:07] >> Yeah, I do have a question.
[6:09] >> Thank you.
[6:10] >> Yeah, Quinn.
[6:11] >> Quinn.
[6:12] >> Oh, Quinn. Oh, sorry, Quinn.
[6:14] >> No worries. I I can raise my hand if
[6:17] it's useful. I I can't tell if people
[6:18] are checking that or not. Otherwise,
[6:20] I'll just jump in.
[6:23] >> Thank Thanks so much for uh working on
[6:25] this. I know it's been a huge project.
[6:26] I'm just so excited about its potential.
[6:30] Uh McKay, I'm wondering if maybe you
[6:32] could share some of the bumps in the
[6:34] road that we've hit, some of the things
[6:35] that we hadn't anticipated that you've
[6:38] worked hard to try to resolve and uh
[6:40] where you think we still have challenges
[6:43] that needs um need some work before we
[6:47] get to where we want to be.
[6:49] >> Yeah, definitely. So one of the biggest
[6:51] challenges that we've had in creating
[6:53] this is we are working with data that
[6:55] has been existing for years. This data
[6:58] has been created in such a way that it
[7:01] was really well tailored to what we
[7:03] wanted when we created it, but the needs
[7:05] of the city have shifted over time. And
[7:07] so as we're creating this new uh
[7:09] application, we're needing to take all
[7:11] of that information, still use it, make
[7:13] sure that we're not losing citizens
[7:15] data, and still make it more modern,
[7:18] something that reflects the needs of the
[7:20] city to date, but is also something
[7:21] that's adaptable for the needs of the
[7:23] city going forward. So the challenge in
[7:25] finding ways to make sure that that is
[7:27] connected smoothly and fluidly has been
[7:29] a very big challenge for us. There were
[7:31] definitely some road bumps that we were
[7:33] hitting right as we were launching my
[7:35] ORM and people not being quite sure how
[7:37] that connection worked. We had to do a
[7:39] lot of work with our 311 agents to make
[7:41] sure that they fully understood and
[7:42] could conceptualize how that data was
[7:45] migrating. But we've now settled on a
[7:48] way that we're pretty confident and
[7:50] we've been seeing a lot of success in
[7:51] making sure that that data migration is
[7:53] happening far smoother now than it was
[7:56] 11 weeks ago. Um, this is not a
[7:59] challenge that is unique to just
[8:00] utilities. When we on board the fitness
[8:02] center, we're going to run into a lot of
[8:04] the same issues. But thankfully, because
[8:06] of the work we've done, we've been able
[8:08] to figure out and we have very good uh
[8:10] guards in place that our team is working
[8:12] on right now to make sure that when we
[8:14] hit those roadblocks, we're able to move
[8:16] around them very agile, very quickly.
[8:20] >> Yeah. Um I I know that you know there
[8:23] have been a number of residents that
[8:24] contacted me uh who have had challenges
[8:28] migrating over. Uh but I have been
[8:30] impressed that uh once we get them
[8:33] connected with the right person uh at
[8:34] 311 that it it goes very smoothly uh
[8:39] when they do hit those challenges. So
[8:41] appreciate you working carefully at 311.
[8:44] >> They've done an incredible job. We're
[8:45] really grateful for them for sure.
[8:49] >> All right. Thank you. Any other
[8:50] questions?
[8:53] >> All right. Thank you so much. I'm I'm
[8:56] excited to get over there. My or
[8:59] >> it is Well, like we were talking about,
[9:01] it's everybody's my orm. It isn't.
[9:04] >> And you got a sweater now. You got a
[9:05] mic.
[9:06] >> I've got a Yeah.
[9:08] >> Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
[9:10] >> Right. The next item on our agenda is
[9:12] our uh fraud presentation on our fraud
[9:15] risk assessment uh from by our chief
[9:17] financial officer, Brandon Nelson. and
[9:19] it's a five-minute presentation with
[9:20] five minute Q&A. So, I'll go ahead and
[9:22] turn the time over to Brandon.
[9:29] » Thank you, mayor. So every year uh as
[9:32] part of the state auditor uh and their
[9:34] compliance requirements um the financial
[9:38] officer of every um entity who is under
[9:43] the state uh is required to come forward
[9:46] with uh his fraud risk assessment in the
[9:48] and they all have used the same uh form.
[9:52] Um and try to give you an idea of where
[9:55] we are with it if there's any questions
[9:58] about it. um any things of that nature.
[10:02] I will tell you upfront,
[10:05] this fraud risk assessment is really
[10:08] geared towards much smallerities.
[10:10] That was what prompted this assessment
[10:13] in the first place was smaller entities
[10:16] who just don't have the same level of
[10:19] depth in relation to their internal
[10:21] control structures and rely upon a much
[10:25] smaller number of people to do a much
[10:28] larger number of things. Um and so so
[10:31] what you're going to see that here in a
[10:33] few of the items. Um you'll notice at
[10:35] the very top our score of 335
[10:39] where that falls within um low is good
[10:44] just so we want to go this way right.
[10:49] So it has been that score for and pretty
[10:53] much ever since we started this fraud
[10:55] risk assessment since the state started
[10:58] requiring it. Um, you'll notice all
[11:01] everything is checked until we get down
[11:05] to this area.
[11:06] >> Oh, it's us.
[11:09] [laughter]
[11:10] >> So, this is why I wanted it. So, there's
[11:12] a couple of reasons why. Number one, the
[11:17] number four that you see there, why why
[11:19] is it that we don't necessarily do that?
[11:21] Well, we have such a thing within our
[11:25] policies and procedures,
[11:27] but you'll notice that it what it
[11:29] specifically says we must do. And we
[11:33] just have never gone to that extreme, if
[11:36] you will, of having you sign a document,
[11:40] physically sign a document indicating
[11:42] some uh various things in relation to
[11:45] this.
[11:45] >> Every year, it looks like
[11:46] >> every year. So we haven't felt that that
[11:49] was totally necessary um to do so.
[11:54] Number five, there is training
[11:58] specifically related to finance the
[12:02] finances of the city that each and every
[12:05] one of you could go do and we would then
[12:08] meet that requirement. I will tell you
[12:11] it is somewhat lengthy.
[12:14] Um,
[12:15] and you only have to do it once in this
[12:17] particular case. You only have to do it
[12:19] once in your uh 4-year term.
[12:22] Uh, and I and I not sure I I've never
[12:26] taken it, of course, but I'm not sure
[12:29] how beneficial it is to you. It may or
[12:32] may not be that beneficial. Um, so
[12:36] again, that's kind of another one of
[12:37] those where could we meet that
[12:40] requirement? Certainly could. Um, I just
[12:43] don't know how truly beneficial it is to do so.
[12:49] Last item you'll notice there is number
[12:50] eight. And we do not have a formal
[12:55] internal audit function. We have many
[12:59] internal audit functions.
[13:01] Key cards for one.
[13:04] uh petty cash another accounts payable
[13:07] has fun uh control internal controls
[13:10] related to it. There are several other
[13:13] programs where we have internal controls
[13:16] related to those programs, but this is
[13:20] referring to a separate someone outside
[13:24] of our organization
[13:27] who formal and it could be a inside your
[13:29] organization, but they're separate from
[13:32] the account the finance department who
[13:35] performs
[13:37] >> audit functions for you.
[13:40] again uh we haven't felt like there's a
[13:42] need for that. Our organization is large
[13:45] enough that we don't necessarily feel
[13:47] like we need to bring in an outside
[13:50] entity u to perform any of those
[13:52] particular uh internal audit functions.
[13:56] So those are the three elements that
[14:00] uh that we don't and we'd have to get
[14:02] two at least two of those in order to go
[14:04] from low to very low. So we'd be right
[14:08] with only one of those three. We'd be
[14:10] just right on the border because it's
[14:12] greater than
[14:14] notice it's greater than 355.
[14:18] Um we continue to operate very well from
[14:21] a control internal control perspective.
[14:24] We have not had any external or internal
[14:26] fraud that we've been uh noticed or that
[14:30] we have been notified about anything of
[14:33] that nature. Um, this last year we
[14:35] actually haven't even seen anything
[14:38] where I think we've only had one if I
[14:40] remember correctly where uh it got we
[14:42] got something flagged where one of our
[14:45] people kind of just not noticed uh as we
[14:48] all take our trainings in no before in
[14:51] relation to various fraud control risks
[14:54] and you know don't click on this link or
[14:56] don't click on that link. Um so
[14:57] something kind of like that. Um,
[15:01] that's really all I have in relation to
[15:04] talking about the assessment. Are there
[15:06] any questions about any the items um
[15:10] that are on on there that or any of
[15:12] those uh three elements that I discussed
[15:14] that uh we're currently not meeting.
[15:18] >> Any questions? Council, do you have any
[15:21] questions?
[15:27] » All right. Thank you. Um I'd like to um
[15:30] since we since we started welcome
[15:32] council members Gail and Millet who have
[15:35] joined us. Um our next item is a
[15:39] presentation on firework cancellation
[15:42] followup 10-minute presentation five
[15:44] minute Q&A. So I'll turn the time over
[15:45] to um Chief Mark Sanderson. Fire Chief
[15:48] Mark Sanderson.
[15:50] >> Thank you Mayor Council. Um, it's really
[15:53] my opportunity to publicly thank you all
[15:57] for
[15:58] I mean what what probably historic the
[16:01] most difficult decision we've made from
[16:03] a fire related community perspective in
[16:06] taking something away or supporting a
[16:08] statewide band that was recommended.
[16:11] um
[16:13] it was super appreciative at least from
[16:16] my office and our team just in in
[16:19] trusting the decision we made that was
[16:21] what we felt was in the best interest of
[16:23] the community. Um,
[16:26] I'll follow up to that is that the years
[16:31] 24 and 25 resulting from fireworks, we
[16:35] had 24 firework related fire starts
[16:40] within the three communities. Um, as a
[16:42] result of the ban and truly the
[16:45] compliance from our citizenry, we
[16:47] reduced those fires by 90% to two
[16:52] firework
[16:53] fire start related fires. One was in
[16:56] Lynen um garbage can. The other one was
[16:59] a grass fire in Vineyard. So not a
[17:01] single fire within Oram city limits but
[17:04] within our response area a fire in both
[17:06] the other communities that was really
[17:08] minor in nature. So
[17:11] I mean it was a substantial
[17:14] reduction in the potential
[17:18] and I feel like overall publicly the
[17:23] support within our social media
[17:26] the numbers I heard Pete and if I'm off
[17:29] please correct me but it was about a six
[17:30] to one positive to negative
[17:34] relationship and so
[17:37] I think we made the right decision.
[17:39] No question in my mind it was the right
[17:41] decision. There was just no way to not
[17:45] support the ban and then actually have a
[17:49] fire in the foothills, a structure fire
[17:51] in our community, heaven forbid, have a
[17:54] firefighter injured or killed like we
[17:56] saw with the wildland deployments and be
[17:59] able to justify that in any way. And so
[18:04] I think it was very successful
[18:07] and it's very much appreciative.
[18:10] Last night, uh, Ryan sent me a survey
[18:15] from
[18:17] a citizen.
[18:18] >> Thank you. That was just following up to
[18:21] our our position, our stance, the
[18:25] overall feeling, the support. They
[18:27] requested to know if we have a wildland
[18:29] team, which we do, where they deployed
[18:32] and assisted on the other statewide for
[18:35] uh fires. They're gathering all of the
[18:37] information in preparation for the 24th.
[18:40] Um there is a lot of concern. Just so
[18:44] we're all clear, there's currently a
[18:46] statewide ban on fireworks. Um just not
[18:50] an authorized period within our statute
[18:52] to shoot them, but it's clearly a ban.
[18:55] And I think we're I don't see the
[18:57] circumstances changing. It'll be
[19:00] interesting to see how the league takes
[19:01] feedback from all of the members and
[19:05] then presents information to the
[19:08] governor and the state forester to make
[19:10] a make a decision coming up. I hope they
[19:13] make it sooner than later.
[19:15] Um but it's definitely on the horizon.
[19:18] And one of the questions just so that
[19:22] we're all on the same page with uh my
[19:25] answer was they asked would we support
[19:29] a similar ban or would we be against it
[19:32] and it was strongly support strongly uh
[19:36] opposed and I just stayed neutral
[19:39] because the from my perspective is I'm
[19:42] not going to be pro firework. I'm not
[19:44] going to be against fireworks. we're
[19:47] going to let the state make their
[19:49] decision, the state forester make a
[19:50] decision, and then we'll gather all the
[19:52] information and
[19:54] make a decision if it comes to that. So,
[19:58] I I didn't want to leverage our
[20:00] organization one way or the other. And
[20:02] so, I think it was was good. I did I did
[20:06] also note they asked for any other
[20:08] considerations
[20:10] and
[20:11] I I thought it was very positive. So, I
[20:13] shared just a short paragraph that based
[20:17] on the decision to uh support the state
[20:20] van. We crafted a letter. Um, our city
[20:25] attorney reviewed it and then our
[20:27] wildland or not our wildland, our fire
[20:29] prevention team delivered what I felt
[20:31] was a very nice uh gesture to all of our
[20:36] independent fireworks stands
[20:38] that offered them a return on their
[20:41] permit fee, their inspection fee, and
[20:44] 100% recoup of their bond.
[20:48] It's completely at their discretion.
[20:49] There was no pressure applied. The only
[20:52] compliance from our perspective is they
[20:54] wouldn't they needed to see selling
[20:56] fireworks through the bill which
[20:59] supported the ban. Um there wasn't a
[21:03] there wasn't any one of them that took
[21:04] us up on that offer, but I felt like um
[21:08] it was at least our show of good faith
[21:12] doing the best we could for the local
[21:15] business owners that hard time and heart
[21:17] understanding. So, I think that was very
[21:20] positive.
[21:22] Talking with Chief Robinson,
[21:25] we had two citizens that were issued
[21:28] citations. They were repeat offenders,
[21:32] initially provided warnings, had to
[21:34] return. Um,
[21:36] I I would suspect the overall firework
[21:40] violations
[21:42] were significantly reduced as far as
[21:44] just calls. Um, but there were at least
[21:47] 40 40 or so more warnings provided. So,
[21:52] I think neighbors did their job in
[21:54] keeping their neighborhoods safe. Law
[21:56] enforcement was awesome in responding to
[22:00] those requests and supporting our band
[22:02] and ultimately to citations. I think
[22:06] that also achieves a goal of being
[22:08] supportive of really hard time in our
[22:10] community. So, with that, I don't have
[22:13] any other
[22:16] information to report, but I'm happy to
[22:18] answer any questions or
[22:20] >> any questions, council.
[22:23] >> Um, I do have one this time if it's
[22:25] okay. U Chief Sanderson, sure appreciate
[22:29] your guidance uh on it and I'm delighted
[22:32] to hear that we had very low incidences.
[22:36] uh if this is an appropriate time, uh
[22:39] would you be willing to share uh what
[22:41] we're doing to support the wild wildland
[22:46] fire folks? Um I I just am not uh sure
[22:50] what kind of support we've been
[22:52] providing for fires around the state.
[22:54] >> We think that's the next is that the
[22:56] next item on the agenda.
[22:57] >> Yes. and both
[22:59] and Captain Hickman, we can actually
[23:02] address that point as part of their
[23:04] presentation if that's okay.
[23:06] >> Sure.
[23:06] >> May I ask was the fire in Lynen like the
[23:09] hillside? What was that?
[23:11] >> Yeah, the fire in Lyndon was actually
[23:13] just a firework placed in a garbage can
[23:16] and it was isolated to a single can
[23:19] which is one of
[23:22] it's probably the number one cause that
[23:24] leads to structure fires. I happened at
[23:26] my parents house in Pleasant Grove years
[23:27] ago. You take your burnt fireworks,
[23:30] they're not cooled off. You put them in
[23:31] your garbage. You wake up at 3:00 in the
[23:33] morning with a neighbor pounding on the
[23:35] door because the side of your house is
[23:36] on fire. And so it's we we just avoided
[23:40] all of that. It was amazing. One little
[23:42] grass fire and the there were just so
[23:46] minimal.
[23:48] It actually shocking. It just goes to
[23:51] show the request, the concern
[23:53] communitywide
[23:54] in
[23:57] not doing something we all loved. So, it
[23:59] was very successful.
[24:02] >> Thank you for your thoughtfulness in
[24:05] offering to return those funds to those
[24:07] business owners. um every time you drive
[24:10] by those and you see nothing happening
[24:12] there and it kind of breaks your heart
[24:14] uh for their you know anticipation and
[24:17] excitement and looking forward to you
[24:20] know hopefully a great season but uh I I
[24:22] think that was a very kind and
[24:25] thoughtful gesture to to at least make
[24:26] that offer.
[24:28] >> Thank you. I did learn today um talking
[24:31] with Chief Spencer, he's our city fire
[24:34] marshal, that um firework companies love
[24:40] the state of Utah because of the 24th.
[24:42] >> I mean, we have our own independent
[24:44] state holiday that double dip.
[24:48] >> So, we'll we'll we'll just see what the
[24:51] 24th brings. I don't get any
[24:53] predictions. I just know that it is a
[24:56] topic
[24:58] that's a that's it's a it's a big deal
[25:00] right now. So, taking it serious and of
[25:02] course we'll utilize all that
[25:04] information to make the best decisions.
[25:07] So, thank you.
[25:08] >> Thank you. And thank you for your work
[25:11] in the letter and doing the video. a lot
[25:14] of positive feedback just the neighbor
[25:16] the community saying how they appreciate
[25:18] the followup from this from you
[25:20] explaining what happened what the
[25:22] results were and so thank you team is so
[25:25] awesome and I'm not Chief Hurst is our
[25:29] PIO he does our social media he's the
[25:32] one that gets interviewed this was one
[25:34] of those things that
[25:36] >> made you look good
[25:37] >> he made [laughter]
[25:40] this question because you hear your own
[25:41] voice and you're like don't sound like
[25:43] that. And then after you're walking down
[25:45] the hall cuz it was like video record,
[25:47] take one 20 seconds. She's like, "That
[25:50] was pretty good." I'm like, "Okay." I
[25:53] walk down the hall and then I start
[25:54] thinking of all these things. I could
[25:56] have smiled. I could have been so much
[25:57] nicer [laughter]
[26:00] in the circumstances of how we're here
[26:02] this historic year. And
[26:04] >> a little out of character.
[26:07] >> So true.
[26:09] >> That's why I did recess.
[26:13] So good
[26:13] >> your cell phone
[26:15] >> after the thinking could have smiled
[26:18] could have been nicer.
[26:21] Chief's respons responsibility.
[26:24] >> Just know that in my office I have a
[26:26] bright red wig, a tie-dyed calf tan and
[26:29] sunglasses. If you need to have that
[26:32] alter
[26:34] of character, but I'm going to do it
[26:36] next time. [laughter]
[26:38] It's been a long time since I had some
[26:40] air.
[26:44] All right. Thank you. [gasps]
[26:46] Our next item on the agenda is a
[26:48] presentation, a wildland team update,
[26:51] 20-minute presentation, five minute Q&A.
[26:53] And our presenters are our assistant
[26:55] fire chief Sean Hurst and fire captain
[26:57] Mike Kickman. We'll go ahead and turn
[26:59] the time over to you. Welcome.
[27:01] >> Thank you.
[27:03] >> I thought that was his could be a little
[27:06] clicker. I'll discuss the town version.
[27:09] Well, I'm Assistant Chief Sean Hurst.
[27:11] Um, I've had the luxury of of overseeing
[27:12] the wildland program for the last nine
[27:14] years. This is Captain Mike Hickman. Um,
[27:18] a little bit history on the wildland
[27:19] team. I'm going to do administrative.
[27:20] He'll do operations side. That's kind of
[27:22] how we structure this. Uh, I don't know
[27:24] if anybody recalls
[27:26] 2017 the state of Utah was asked to come
[27:28] help uh California on the Thomas fire
[27:30] December of 2017
[27:32] uh on what's called an EMAC. I always
[27:35] have to emergency management assistant
[27:36] compact or fire didn't go on that we
[27:40] weren't ready. We had no business going
[27:42] on that fire and it was honestly quite
[27:45] embarrassing uh that our wildland
[27:48] uh structure or structure firefighting
[27:50] was sound or wildland fighting was not.
[27:53] Um my kickman was a firefighter at the
[27:56] time. He had had significant wildland
[27:58] experience before coming to Warm Fire
[28:00] and we'd supported him uh along the way
[28:02] for a number of years on trying to
[28:05] maintain that. Uh but that next year he
[28:07] approached myself and the chief with a
[28:09] program on how to fix that. And so we're
[28:12] really proud of where we are. Uh 9 years
[28:15] later um War and Fire is a significant
[28:20] force in the wildland world in the state
[28:22] of Utah. Uh we've developed a program
[28:24] that's well well known or name requested
[28:28] uh and Pikmin is a big part of this but
[28:31] we have several other engine bosses that
[28:32] and ORM's engine is on the task force or
[28:35] engine gets the toughest job. We are
[28:38] known for doing the hard hard hard the
[28:41] toughest assignments and that's how we
[28:43] want the program to run. Uh he'll get in
[28:45] the nuts and bolts of how we accomplish
[28:47] that but not only engine the personnel
[28:49] that we have in this this city now. Um,
[28:52] we have several bosses. We have what's
[28:54] called a task force leader in in years
[28:57] down the road. Uh, well, it's he'll be
[29:00] my kickman. He'll be leading task forces
[29:01] for Emacs out of state. Uh, we have two
[29:04] people we're developing as part of type
[29:06] three teams that will deploy all over
[29:08] the nation um to instance response.
[29:10] Could be hurricanes, tornadoes, floods.
[29:13] Right now, they're doing wildland
[29:14] responses is that's uh that's what we
[29:16] know. Um, so we want to thank the city,
[29:20] the investment that we've had over the
[29:21] last eight years. Uh, you guys have been
[29:23] willing to purchase us two two brush
[29:25] trucks that are purpose-built for
[29:26] deployment. We're prior to that. We
[29:28] didn't really have a a vehicle that was
[29:30] good to take out. Uh, we are under
[29:32] contract on a wildland engine. Uh, we're
[29:34] going to take delivery next summer that
[29:36] is going to be fully funded by wildland
[29:39] revenue brought back by these members to
[29:41] the the city. So about that revenue when
[29:44] we started this program it wasn't about
[29:46] dollars and honestly the dollars weren't
[29:48] there. It was about developing a program
[29:50] that protect or better and develop our
[29:53] personnel. Now over the years um the
[29:56] state has recognized that they can't
[29:58] function without us. We're what's called
[30:00] a cooperator and Hickman will get in
[30:02] kind of the guts of that but um they've
[30:05] kind of sweetened the pot and so uh we
[30:08] are going to fund that that engine all
[30:10] off of revenue. So right now we're at
[30:11] 1.4 4 million gross brought into the
[30:14] city and a lion share of that goes to
[30:17] our employees in overtime. Um, but we've
[30:20] been able to run this program in the
[30:21] black. We're starting to buy our own
[30:22] equipment, buy our own PPE, and buy a
[30:25] fire engine next year. So, we're pretty
[30:26] excited about that. So, before I
[30:29] introduce Mike Hickman, um, everybody
[30:32] saw the smoke two weeks ago, three weeks
[30:34] ago. Prior to that, the state um,
[30:38] red flag warnings. Everybody familiar
[30:40] with that? We have fire conditions that
[30:42] we know if a fire sparks it's going to
[30:44] grow immensely. Um and they forecasted
[30:48] that the state was some task forces sent
[30:51] them all over the all over the state.
[30:54] Our units were part of a task force that
[30:56] was st stationed in Probo. They were
[30:58] spun up just a couple days before that
[30:59] fire and they were ready to go for the
[31:01] Iron Fire. Um the night of June 20th. Um
[31:05] I've had a lot of calls for Mike over
[31:06] the years and uh we had a busy day. We
[31:09] had a close call, but the night of the
[31:12] 20th and watching that plume of smoke
[31:14] fearing the evacuation of Eureka and
[31:16] knowing that these guys were on the
[31:17] flaming front of that fire was a little
[31:19] different when they're right in the
[31:20] backyard. Um there was a structure uh
[31:25] team that was mostly volunteer
[31:26] firefighters in Eureka that night. Um
[31:29] task force actual and Mike Hickman saw
[31:31] the need. They were able to talk the IC
[31:33] into what's called going direct on that
[31:35] flaming front. uh they rolled into town
[31:37] with flame lengths 30 40 maybe 50 feet
[31:40] on the ridge and were a big part of
[31:42] saving Rica that night. So uh Hickman
[31:45] will get into the kind of the guts of
[31:46] that but the beauty of it is they've
[31:48] been there before. Uh they've been on
[31:50] the Dixie fire uh or scale Dixie fire
[31:54] burnt just under a million acres. So
[31:56] roughly 75% of Utah County would have
[31:58] been burnt in the Dixie fire in
[32:00] California. And they were out saving
[32:01] homes and properties in that fire
[32:03] several years before. So they were ready
[32:05] for this. So, I want to turn the time
[32:07] over to Mike Hickman. Um, really proud
[32:09] of where he is in in this uh his career
[32:12] and where he has is in the wildland
[32:14] division right now. And he'll get into
[32:16] the operations and what it's like out
[32:18] there in the field and what it was like
[32:20] that night in Eureka. So, thanks, Chief.
[32:25] >> I appreciate the opportunity to present
[32:26] to you guys. Um, some of you guys that
[32:28] have been on the council for a little
[32:29] bit, I've presented similar things
[32:31] before, just kind of talking about our
[32:33] program, letting you guys stay up to
[32:35] date on what it is that we're doing
[32:37] because we just we really appreciate
[32:39] your guys' support and the opportunity
[32:40] to represent the city of Oram all across
[32:43] the country. Um, it's been a been a
[32:45] great success. So,
[32:49] maybe
[32:51] the best thing about these presentations
[32:53] is Mike puts together slideshow. He adds
[32:56] some music and it's awesome.
[32:59] >> Yeah, it's not Pete's team. I thought
[33:01] you were going there,
[33:02] >> but [laughter]
[33:03] it's a fireman's version.
[33:07] >> You'll have to bear with me there. So,
[33:09] our wildland team currently, it's made
[33:10] up of 17 uh individuals. We're spread
[33:13] out al amongst the the three shifts as
[33:16] well as we have four members in the
[33:18] office that participate in the team as
[33:20] well. We have different positions within
[33:22] the team like a saw boss, a supply cache
[33:24] manager, communication specialist, uh a
[33:27] wooi coordinator, the wildland urban
[33:29] interface. So we try and cover all these
[33:31] different things as subject matter
[33:33] experts within the department on this
[33:35] wildland team. Um we have myself
[33:38] qualified as a task force leader, strike
[33:40] team leader, and IC type 4. We have
[33:43] three engine bosses including myself. Uh
[33:45] three IC type fives and five firefighter
[33:48] type ones. Those are our current
[33:50] qualifications.
[33:51] >> C stands for incident commander.
[33:53] >> Yes sir. Yes sir. So the incident
[33:56] command system it was uh really it was
[33:59] born from the wildland world. It was
[34:01] originally called fire scope. It came
[34:03] out of California and they were just
[34:05] really good at running large scale
[34:07] incidents. Um 9/11 happens and nobody
[34:11] knew how to run an incident that big.
[34:14] And a fun fact about 9/11, um, a bunch
[34:18] of wildland dudes with beards and green
[34:20] pants showed up and helped the FDNY run
[34:23] that large scale of an incident. And
[34:26] that's where NIMS and ICS was born was
[34:29] out of the 9/11 uh, incident where the
[34:33] national response framework was built
[34:35] and kind of was all born from the
[34:37] wildland industry. So the way they run
[34:40] it is a type five incident is the
[34:42] smallest incident that that we have as
[34:44] far as typing goes. A type four and
[34:46] that's something that it's done in over
[34:48] in a single operational period. So
[34:50] that's like a car wreck on State Street.
[34:52] That's a medical call. That's a single
[34:55] lightning strike. Uh one trees on fire
[34:58] small incident. Type four incident large
[35:01] scale. There's going to be a lot more
[35:03] people there. It's more of a complex
[35:05] thing. a type three incident. Now you're
[35:08] going to start bringing in these are the
[35:09] kinds of probably classes you guys have
[35:10] taken where there's a finance section
[35:12] chief and a logistics section chief and
[35:14] all these type things. And then there's
[35:17] ultimately a complex incident management
[35:19] team. They used to split it between one
[35:20] and two, but that's kind of splitting
[35:22] hairs. So that's where we're at. We've
[35:24] got a myself as a type four IC and then
[35:27] I've got three type five incident
[35:28] commanders that have to go through task
[35:31] books and get signed off having real
[35:33] world experience doing those things. Hey
[35:35] Mike, where did our where did the
[35:36] temponogus fire categorize?
[35:39] >> The range fire was ended up being a type
[35:40] three incident. So, um I was able I was
[35:44] I just had my first child. Um he was
[35:47] like 10 days old and I get a phone call
[35:49] saying, "Hey, uh Mike, the mountain's on
[35:51] fire. I uh I live here in town." I was
[35:54] like, "Yep, I can see that. Sounds like
[35:55] you guys are going to have a fun day.
[35:56] That'll be cool." "No, Mike, I need you
[35:58] to come in." Like, I'm on FMLA. I don't
[36:01] know. Sorry. I got a newborn and no
[36:04] Mike. Uh, it started in the in the
[36:07] shooting range. I I need you to come in.
[36:09] So, I was a type four IC trainee that
[36:13] got to run a type three fire for the
[36:15] first couple days. So, got just thrown
[36:17] into the deep end and figured out how to
[36:19] swim.
[36:19] >> One one more thing, too. that anybody
[36:22] needs to toot your horn horn because
[36:24] you're amazing, but explain to them the role you play as the task force
[36:29] leader in comparison to other
[36:31] departments and how that looks like for
[36:32] the state. So, as a task force leader,
[36:34] I'm able to in the wildland world,
[36:38] there's engine bosses is usually going
[36:40] to be like your engine captain, right?
[36:42] But in the wildland world, there's a lot
[36:43] more than just engines. There's hand
[36:45] crews like hot shot crews that you guys
[36:47] are used to. They're led by a crew boss.
[36:50] There's um heavy equipment, so like
[36:52] dozers and masticators and um big
[36:55] machinery, so they have a heavy
[36:57] equipment boss. There's firing bosses.
[36:59] There's all these different levels of
[37:00] supervisors. And then a task force
[37:03] leader can take all different types. So
[37:05] this task force that I um was able to to
[37:08] supervise just barely with the state, we
[37:11] had a dozer, a water tender, type four
[37:13] engines, type three engines, and type
[37:14] six engines. And as a task force leader,
[37:17] I'm able to supervise all those
[37:18] different types of of resources all at
[37:21] the same time. So,
[37:22] >> thank you. It's really significant. It
[37:25] really is what puts like Chief Vers
[37:26] said, ORM on the map with our
[37:28] capabilities all stemming from one
[37:31] individual that saw the need and where
[37:33] it's expanded. So,
[37:35] >> yeah. So, when when we started in 2018,
[37:38] it was a nineperson team. um I was the
[37:41] one and only engine boss on the for the
[37:42] program and everybody else was at that
[37:44] firefighter type two level and now we've
[37:46] got five firefighter ones, three engine
[37:49] bosses and uh like Chief was saying
[37:51] myself as a task force leader. So kind
[37:53] of a a little bit of a timeline. Um
[37:56] Chief Hurst kind of touched on this a
[37:57] little bit. We pitched the program in
[37:59] 2017. Um this this presentation is not
[38:02] about me, but I I started wildland fire
[38:05] in 2009. I did it right out of high
[38:07] school. So that was kind of my
[38:08] background coming into ORM fire in 2014.
[38:11] A few years in, um, I was able to to
[38:14] team up with Chief Hurst, who was my
[38:16] battalion chief at the time, and we we
[38:18] pitched this program. At the time, the
[38:21] only people that held their wildland
[38:23] fire certifications were those that had
[38:26] it through their part-time employment,
[38:27] that they worked somewhere else and
[38:28] that's where they got it. um ORM fire
[38:31] for the longest time the mentality was
[38:34] hey our job is structures our job isn't
[38:36] uh wildland so we're going to call the
[38:38] guys with the green pants to come and
[38:40] take care of that right um I was able to meet with our our leadership team and
[38:46] explain to them it actually is a little
[38:48] more complicated than that um if the
[38:50] fire starts in ORM and goes into state
[38:54] or federal property that is ORM's
[38:56] problem um so we have a lot of buoy or
[38:59] wildland urban interface all across that
[39:02] eastbench. Obviously that if a fire
[39:04] starts in our backyards and goes up the
[39:08] hill, we enter into what's called a cost
[39:10] share with uh with the federal
[39:12] government at that point because
[39:14] ultimately that fire is kind of our
[39:16] fault. It happened started in our city,
[39:18] right? By participating in the state's
[39:22] program, the it's a it's a contract that
[39:24] we enter in with them every year. um and
[39:27] the cost share agreement that we enter
[39:29] into with them. It's essentially
[39:30] insurance that we get through the state
[39:32] of Utah by playing the game, playing by
[39:35] their rules. When we have a large fire
[39:38] happen in the city of ORM, the state of
[39:40] Utah picks up the bill because we go and
[39:42] help when the state of Utah needs help
[39:44] in other instances. So, uh I don't know
[39:47] all the specifics behind it, but I know
[39:49] that a bill was issued to the city of
[39:51] Orm after the range fire. we were able
[39:53] to highlight that contract and send it
[39:55] back and not have to pay a giant bill
[39:57] for the range fire. So, paid off paid
[40:00] off big for us that day. Um,
[40:03] and by doing these deployments, um, that
[40:07] helps us. But then also with the cost
[40:08] share stuff, we do mitigation projects
[40:11] every year for all three cities where we
[40:13] go around and we reduce our wildland
[40:15] fire risk up to a certain uh dollar
[40:19] amount that the state says, "Hey, you
[40:21] need to do this much work." Um, which we do more than what they request every
[40:27] year. So, spring of 2019, the the team
[40:31] formed 2020, like Chief Hurst said, we
[40:33] purchased our first uh deployment ready
[40:35] type 6 engine. This is uh our first type
[40:37] six that we ordered right here. First
[40:40] one was a single cab Ford. Um it was
[40:43] very cozy riding with three dudes all
[40:46] the way to Ventura, California in a
[40:48] single
[40:50] [laughter]
[40:51] >> high school days.
[40:53] That's true.
[40:54] >> We were able to uh to really get to know
[40:56] each other being three deep all the way
[40:58] to Ventura and being three deep for 14
[41:01] days in the west desert of of Utah here.
[41:04] So, we were able to get this truck,
[41:06] which has been a great workhorse for us.
[41:08] So, we've been really happy with this.
[41:10] Um, in 2025, we were able to purchase a
[41:12] sister engine to this. It's another
[41:14] four-door Dodge just like it. Uh, so
[41:17] engine 632 and 634 are our type 6 fire
[41:20] trucks that go out on these wildland
[41:23] deployments. So, just for some
[41:24] perspective, these are type six engines.
[41:27] It's a a Ram 5500. Um, and then type one
[41:31] engines are what we normally have
[41:33] driving around here in the streets of
[41:34] Worm that you guys see all the time. So,
[41:36] we currently have a type three engine
[41:38] that's on order that'll be coming. So,
[41:40] it's just sits right there in the middle
[41:41] between those those two. So, it's it's a
[41:44] larger engine, not as big as our normal
[41:46] type ones. It still has four-wheel drive
[41:48] capabilities, but it has a larger pump,
[41:51] carries more water and things like that.
[41:52] So, it can it can pump longer hose on
[41:55] these wildland fires. So, what what's the benefit to the city
[42:00] outside of that cost share agreement and
[42:03] that insurance? Uh there's a lot of
[42:05] things that that this program brings
[42:07] back to the city. It for me the number
[42:10] one point that I brought was the safety
[42:12] aspect for our first responders. Um we
[42:14] go on a lot of specialty calls as uh
[42:17] first responders were kind of that that
[42:20] hey, I got a problem. I'm going to call
[42:22] and the fire department's going to
[42:23] figure it out. You wouldn't believe some
[42:24] of the stuff we get called for to help
[42:26] people out on. Um, but wildland fire is
[42:29] one of those specialties that we go on
[42:31] pretty regularly. You just heard Chief
[42:32] Sanderson say every year we go on brush
[42:34] fires and that's just once related to
[42:36] the 4th of July. So, we go on these
[42:39] wildland fires every single year. And
[42:40] typically, I'm not going to sell you
[42:42] guys war stories like we're not going on
[42:44] the range fire here in ORM jurisdiction
[42:46] every year, but it is a special type of
[42:50] firefighting. Um, it's not in a box.
[42:53] Structure fires are in a box and we just
[42:55] got to put it out as fast as we can and
[42:57] hopefully keep it to that box. A
[42:59] wildland fire, the earth is its box,
[43:02] right? Um, so there's some specialty
[43:04] training that comes with that. And now
[43:07] we're 100% certified top to bottom. The
[43:09] entire fire department from Chief
[43:10] Sanderson down to our newest hire.
[43:12] Everybody is a certified wildland
[43:14] firefighter. Now, um, that that comes
[43:16] from the support from Chief Sanderson.
[43:18] He came in at the time we were going
[43:20] through we were just going to do it
[43:21] through attrition that everybody 5 years
[43:23] and under was required to and we were
[43:25] going to slowly get to 100% and Chief
[43:27] Sanderson saw the benefit and just said
[43:29] nope we're going to we're going to make
[43:30] that 100%. And it's been we've seen the
[43:32] benefits from that. Uh we talked about
[43:34] the cost insurance that positive PR that
[43:37] when we had the Palis a fire in Los
[43:39] Angeles in January last year. Um again
[43:43] being a citizen of war and being able to
[43:44] talk to my neighbors and the sense of
[43:46] pride that they had that hey yeah my
[43:48] fire department is out there and helping
[43:51] the the citizens of Los Angeles and
[43:53] their extreme like national historic
[43:57] event. we're there helping and that's
[43:59] that that to me is a really cool
[44:01] opportunity to represent our city and do
[44:03] that. Um the the revenue that was talked
[44:06] about with Chief Hurst and uh the morale
[44:10] like the guys are able to to get
[44:12] overtime at no financial burden to the
[44:15] city because while we're on these fires
[44:17] uh we're able to bill our hours directly
[44:19] to the incident and give guys the
[44:22] opportunity to make a little bit of
[44:23] overtime um and the fire is paying for
[44:26] paying that bill. So, we talked about
[44:28] the safety aspect a little bit. Um, the
[44:31] you see here a 747 dropping retardant.
[44:34] This is uh the reason I put up this
[44:35] photo is because um I don't know if you
[44:38] guys heard in uh 2018 of Battalion Chief
[44:42] Matt Burchette. He died on one of these
[44:44] deployments. He's from Draper City Fire
[44:46] Department. He was actually um my
[44:49] captain when I was a fire intern uh
[44:52] fresh out of uh the recruit academy and
[44:56] he went on this deployment to California
[44:59] and he was working around these large
[45:02] aircraft and uh it was a tragic incident
[45:06] and he he actually died because of a
[45:09] retardant drop hit a tree and the tree
[45:11] came down and crushed him. So, I can't I
[45:14] can't stress enough the importance of
[45:16] the safety aspect that comes with
[45:18] knowing what you're doing on these
[45:20] wildland incidents. He was dialed and he
[45:22] ended up in a situation that he was
[45:24] because he was trying to make sure that
[45:25] his men weren't on the line when that
[45:27] came through. Um, but because we have
[45:31] members of the department that have
[45:32] experience talking to these aircraft,
[45:35] knowing how far away they need to be,
[45:37] knowing what they need to do, we're
[45:38] going to operate in a much safer manner.
[45:40] Um, and we've got we've got these
[45:42] subject matter experts now, right? Um,
[45:47] another huge point to me is the working
[45:49] relationships that we're able to
[45:52] establish with our partners at the state
[45:54] of Utah. Um, just this last deployment,
[45:58] it was made up primarily of people from
[46:00] the state of Utah, from the the Division
[46:03] of Natural Resources, Forestry, Fire,
[46:04] and State Lands. and we've entered into
[46:07] agreements with them in the past where
[46:08] they've put on chainsaw classes for us.
[46:11] They've helped us um gain gain these
[46:14] experiences that we need and in return
[46:16] we're able to if they have seasonal
[46:19] firefighters that want to become career
[46:21] structural firefighters, we now have
[46:23] that relationship and they can come here
[46:25] and we know that they're good,
[46:27] hardworking people that have strong work
[46:29] ethic and they're going to fit in well
[46:30] with our culture. So,
[46:33] over the last eight seasons, we've been
[46:35] able to deploy all over the western
[46:37] United States and even one all the way
[46:39] over to Kansas, as you can see. Um, and
[46:42] that number is just going to continue to
[46:43] grow. Um, we've gone on over 25
[46:45] deployments. Like I said, we've gained
[46:47] lots of qualifications and it's been
[46:49] just been uh really cool to to see the
[46:52] Western United States to help on these
[46:54] things and and represent this the city
[46:56] of ORM um in that that capacity. So,
[47:01] I'll talk lastly just about uh this most
[47:03] recent task force like Chief Hurst said,
[47:06] they stood this up because of the
[47:08] significant wildland uh threat that the
[47:10] state of Utah has right now. You guys
[47:12] might look at a juniper tree and think
[47:14] that that's just a desert pine tree and
[47:16] I look at it as lightning in a bottle.
[47:18] Those things are ready to burn and when
[47:20] they burn it is a show. The oil that are
[47:24] that's in those things, it's like a
[47:25] house is on fire but it's a tree. um and
[47:28] the embers that it throws. It's just
[47:30] it's uh it's wild out there this year.
[47:32] I'll say that. Um so they they stood up
[47:34] this task force. We did one day of
[47:37] staging in Provo waiting for a large
[47:39] enough incident that local resources
[47:42] weren't able to tackle it. And after a
[47:45] single day, we got the phone call and we
[47:47] went to the Iron Fire just outside of
[47:49] Eureka. We were some of the first
[47:50] resources there within the first couple
[47:52] hours of it starting. And uh like Chief
[47:55] Hurst said, in that first operational
[47:57] period is when the city of Eureka was
[47:59] getting evacuated and we were able to
[48:02] tactically reposition ourselves to that
[48:05] side of the fire and uh
[48:08] I was in a very unique situation where I
[48:10] come from the structure world, but I was
[48:12] there in a wildland capacity. Um I had
[48:16] my wildland radio and I had my structure
[48:17] radio. So, I was able to talk to the
[48:19] volunteer fire departments and I was
[48:21] able to talk to our federal partners and
[48:24] kind of act as that liaison and kind of
[48:26] herd the cats, if you will, and and make
[48:28] some things happen. And I'm I'm
[48:29] confident that this group of individuals
[48:31] right here is the reason why we didn't
[48:34] lose homes in the town of Eureka that
[48:36] night. So, it was a it was a really cool
[48:37] experience. Um really really humbling to
[48:41] be able to see that kind of uh force of
[48:46] nature come down and and see these
[48:47] firemen make a stand. It was really
[48:48] cool. We had 40 mph winds switching
[48:52] directions on us and we threw a Hail
[48:55] Mary and we poured fire in people's
[48:56] backyards and it worked. So
[48:59] >> firemen starting fires.
[49:01] >> That's what they love to do.
[49:02] >> So yeah, [laughter]
[49:04] >> it works. It works. And I uh I've got a
[49:06] video here that I'm going to show you
[49:07] guys. It's just a couple minutes just
[49:09] highlighting some of the the efforts of
[49:12] the men on that that deployment and uh
[49:14] then if you guys have any questions for
[49:16] me.
[49:17] >> Thank you.
[49:22] » Sounds
[49:26] we got to get
[49:27] >> have Captain Hickman's angry music.
[49:29] [laughter]
[49:30] >> It's amazing.
[49:31] >> We know how to get the sound going
[49:32] sound.
[49:42] It's one of the hardest parts is picking
[49:43] the right song.
[49:47] » That's the tone.
[49:51] » Set them up and just build it on the
[49:52] audio.
[49:53] >> I'll step back.
[49:55] [laughter]
[49:57] » You have a song going through your head
[49:58] while you're out there doing this.
[50:00] You're like, "Okay, [laughter]
[50:02] >> those songs can't be put in this
[50:04] council. [laughter]
[50:08] against the machine. All those kind of
[50:12] >> was talking very
[50:17] protective. That's right.
[50:19] >> Hi ho. Hi ho.
[50:27] » Yeah, just put on the computer
[50:28] >> so you can sing the song that's supposed
[50:30] to go with this.
[50:31] >> It's a lot of instruments. [laughter]
[50:34] Last year was fun.
[50:37] >> No, I wanted
[50:40] you
[50:59] Grand
[51:41] That's
[51:44] better.
[52:07] body position.
[52:15] Are you going to think about
[52:35] the high
[52:53] Okay.
[53:03] So,
[53:24] » thanks for your time. I appreciate again
[53:26] you guys' support and being able to come
[53:28] in here and just advocate for the work
[53:30] you guys do out there and uh uh we just
[53:34] really appreciate the the opportunity to
[53:36] represent Orum out there. You guys uh
[53:38] have any questions for for me or for
[53:40] Chief First?
[53:41] >> So I have a question but first I want to
[53:43] say yeah impressive, right? I mean I'm
[53:45] like you're walking towards that thing.
[53:47] Rest of us are running away. So thank
[53:49] you so much. Um I uh when I grew up
[53:54] there were two of Heber um a neighbor of
[53:57] mine was a firefighter that was killed
[53:58] in a wildland fire. So it was I just
[54:02] every time I hear of these fires I think
[54:05] of you guys. So thank you for that um
[54:09] risk that you put your yourselves in for
[54:12] you know property really um for people's
[54:17] you know valuables. But anyway, so my
[54:20] question I'm kind of curious those that
[54:22] big equipment, where does that come
[54:25] from? How do you get that? Or is
[54:27] >> uh the state of Utah uh owns and
[54:29] operates that dozer specifically, but
[54:32] there's a the wildland world is full of
[54:35] uh so it's kind of tiered. There's
[54:36] federal, there's state, there's
[54:39] cooperators, which is us, and then
[54:41] there's contractors. So, the feds and
[54:43] the state have a lot of heavy equipment
[54:45] that they purchase specifically for
[54:47] wildland firefighting. Um, there are
[54:49] some cities that offer up their heavy
[54:51] equipment. I've actually spoken with uh
[54:53] Director Shery about us potentially
[54:55] getting into that um in the future
[54:57] utilizing our heavy equipment to to
[54:59] assist on these type of things, but a
[55:01] lot of it is primarily done by
[55:03] contractors. So people that own like an
[55:06] excavation business, they sign a
[55:08] contract with the federal government to
[55:10] utilize their equipment in in building
[55:13] these uh wildland fire control lines.
[55:16] >> Yeah.
[55:18] >> I just I want to say thank you, but I
[55:21] feel like that doesn't convey what the
[55:24] appreciation
[55:26] that I think we have. I said, "One of my
[55:28] earliest childhood memories around
[55:30] wildland fires, growing up in a canyon
[55:32] outside of Santa Barbara, California,
[55:34] and watching my dad on the roof with the
[55:36] hose and going up the road and seeing
[55:39] the half of the ravines on fire, just
[55:41] all these different things. We we had
[55:43] actually moved by the time the fire a
[55:46] fire actually burned down the house that
[55:47] we we lived in. But yes, there's just
[55:52] Thank you. Thank you for putting your life on liberty lives on the line
[55:58] to help protect our communities and
[56:02] I appreciate what what you do. Thank
[56:03] you. Thank you. Appreciate your support.
[56:07] >> We're just proud of you. We're really
[56:08] proud of you. And my Chief Sanderson had
[56:10] sent some of those videos via email and
[56:12] I had to all my sons in say you guys
[56:14] come look at this and they were proud of
[56:15] you and we just we're proud that you're
[56:16] representing Warren.
[56:17] >> Yes. Yes.
[56:21] Multiple meetings I've talked with Bren
[56:23] about budget expansion requests because
[56:25] I see it coming. One of those
[56:26] helicopters
[56:29] structures don't load the water. Fire's
[56:32] out.
[56:33] >> As long as the mayor can push the
[56:34] button,
[56:36] >> just drop the water. Right.
[56:38] >> Go ahead and keep requesting, chief.
[56:42] You're allowed to want. That's right.
[56:45] Thanks so much.
[56:46] >> Thank you.
[56:47] >> Thanks you guys.
[56:50] All right, next item on the agenda.
[56:54] >> Canal. I think this is for the next one.
[56:57] >> Okay, so we're doing the canal update
[56:58] next.
[56:59] >> Yeah, we're doing the canal update next.
[57:00] I don't have a slideshow because killed
[57:03] it.
[57:03] >> I sent it to the fire department. They
[57:05] lifted my music from it. [laughter]
[57:11] » So
[57:12] that would be the only thing that make
[57:14] the canal more interesting is that
[57:16] music.
[57:19] Now the canal. So as you know the canal
[57:22] uh we have uh gotten a grant from MAG
[57:26] and we have now issued a contract to
[57:31] methods studio and they're helping us go
[57:34] through it. We have our first meeting
[57:36] with them tomorrow be the scoping uh
[57:40] tomorrow where we'll set out the agenda
[57:42] and time frames and things like that. So
[57:45] I know you're getting lots of questions.
[57:47] I know you're getting lots of emails, so
[57:49] we wanted to come in and quickly give
[57:51] you that little heads up about where we
[57:54] are. Once we have a schedule and we're
[57:57] looking at things, we'll come back and
[58:00] let you know uh the schedule of how
[58:02] we'll go about it.
[58:04] >> Just to clarify, you said Method
[58:06] Studios.
[58:07] >> Oh, Methods,
[58:10] >> which is a planning for Method Studios,
[58:12] our architect on this building.
[58:14] >> I thought, wow,
[58:16] I just said
[58:18] >> thank you.
[58:19] >> Have water features
[58:22] elevator.
[58:24] >> It is a water feature facility.
[58:27] [laughter]
[58:28] >> No. So, so then as residents have
[58:32] questions at this point, it would still
[58:34] be appropriate to send them to you until
[58:36] method is going.
[58:38] >> Yeah. Until we get them going. Uh one of
[58:41] the the major things and what we want to
[58:43] focus on uh primarily at the beginning
[58:46] is outreach and we've had lots of people
[58:49] contact us. Thank you for forwarding
[58:52] emails to you. We're we're keeping track
[58:54] of all of those people. We want to uh
[58:58] work with uh the residents as much as
[59:02] possible especially those who abut the
[59:05] canal. And I've talked to many many
[59:08] people and
[59:10] uh you know, no surprise, the farther
[59:13] away from the canal you are, the more in
[59:16] favor of it you you tend to be. The
[59:19] closer to the canal, the the greater
[59:22] your uh level of uncomfortableness and
[59:26] in the questions that you have. So,
[59:28] we're trying to look at getting some
[59:30] really good public information out uh
[59:33] rather than just anecdotally what we
[59:36] have because I' I've heard everything
[59:39] from this is the greatest thing that
[59:41] could ever happened to ORM. Of course,
[59:42] we should do it to this is the worst
[59:44] thing that could ever happen to ORM. Of
[59:46] course, we shouldn't and everything in
[59:49] between. So, we're excited and uh we'll
[59:53] keep methods studio away and we'll just
[59:55] work with them.
[59:57] What's your timeline of the completed?
[59:59] >> We're I'm hoping to have something by
[1:00:01] the end of this year that the council
[1:00:03] can review this year to information
[1:00:07] back, especially the public outreach
[1:00:09] because part of this uh I if if there's
[1:00:14] if early on
[1:00:16] uh it the community support is just
[1:00:19] let's say overwhelming, that can really
[1:00:22] shape how and what we would do from
[1:00:24] there. if the community uh was
[1:00:27] overwhelmingly against something like
[1:00:30] this and it just wasn't going to happen.
[1:00:32] The sooner we can find that out the
[1:00:34] better um in in going through that lots
[1:00:37] of people are very interested in this.
[1:00:39] >> Okay. So I'm sorry I need to clarify
[1:00:41] this then by the end of the year we'll
[1:00:44] have a completed report or by the end of
[1:00:47] the year you want to be finished with
[1:00:48] the community outreach. Uh certainly by
[1:00:50] the end of the year we'll be finished
[1:00:52] with uh community outreach and we will
[1:00:54] have a good draft of a report. I don't
[1:00:57] know that it'd be final and there still
[1:00:59] may be some tweaking to do on it, but at
[1:01:02] least by the end of the year, uh I want
[1:01:05] to be able to give the council as much
[1:01:07] information as we can on the support, uh
[1:01:12] the issues, the things that the
[1:01:15] community is concerned about and
[1:01:19] what we can or cannot do with some of
[1:01:21] these things. It's a it's a very
[1:01:23] complicated deal. Uh there are property
[1:01:26] issues, there's feasibility issues,
[1:01:30] there's just the the desire to have it
[1:01:32] whether or not issues. So
[1:01:37] » when the Murdoch Canal Trail went in,
[1:01:40] was there a lot of community
[1:01:44] uh hesitation on building of that or was
[1:01:47] there pretty good support? I don't
[1:01:50] remember
[1:01:53] what that was like.
[1:01:54] I was in Lehi at the time and there was
[1:01:56] a lot of concern.
[1:01:59] >> So I'm wondering if reaching out to
[1:02:01] people who backed the Murdoch Canal
[1:02:03] Trail and having their perspective of what the trail has
[1:02:10] been like can be helpful
[1:02:14] for those who are facing the a
[1:02:17] possibility of that in I guess. Yeah,
[1:02:21] the Murdoch canal and not being in ORM
[1:02:23] at the time and Chris was and he can
[1:02:26] jump in here in a second usually on
[1:02:29] projects like this
[1:02:31] um the farther away from the canal the
[1:02:35] less of a direct impact it has on you.
[1:02:37] So it tends to be a little easier for
[1:02:40] people to rally around doing something
[1:02:44] as you're right next to the canal.
[1:02:47] the personal impact to your property and
[1:02:50] that that can be a difficult thing and a
[1:02:52] lot of concerns. Uh I think also
[1:02:56] underlying the the canal issue. Uh the
[1:03:00] property issues were a little different
[1:03:02] than what we're facing now.
[1:03:03] >> That's that was what I was going to say
[1:03:04] was that the the pipe the canal was
[1:03:07] going to be piped anyway. That was that
[1:03:11] was going to be done. the issue ended up
[1:03:14] being
[1:03:16] what's going to be what's going to
[1:03:18] happen on top of the where the pipe is.
[1:03:22] And so I say Chris, I remember there was
[1:03:24] some opposition
[1:03:27] >> to it and but there was also a lot of
[1:03:29] support. There's a lot of uncertainty
[1:03:32] that you
[1:03:33] >> So the Murdoch Canal has a typical
[1:03:36] right-of-way cross-section of about 100
[1:03:38] ft and there was a it was federally
[1:03:41] owned and there was a title transfer
[1:03:43] that took place around 15 years ago or
[1:03:45] so and as a result they put in a pipe
[1:03:49] that was 110 in diameter to to be able
[1:03:52] to provide I think 600 cfs of flow
[1:03:54] there. The major concerns from the
[1:03:56] property owners were a couple different
[1:03:58] ones. One was rightaway lines. Some
[1:04:01] people had improvements that weren't on
[1:04:03] their property. So, those all had to be
[1:04:05] resolved and so they had to clearly
[1:04:08] define where those were. And there are
[1:04:09] some property line boundary line
[1:04:11] adjustments. But also, as you look at
[1:04:13] the cross-section from east to west, the
[1:04:15] west side in many cases is much lower
[1:04:18] than the east side. And then you could
[1:04:20] actually visit or you could actually see
[1:04:22] down and view what's going on in the
[1:04:24] neighbor's yard or look in their window
[1:04:27] right from the trail. So there was a lot
[1:04:28] of privacy concerns. Um there were
[1:04:30] concerns about uh by neighbors of just
[1:04:33] noise, general activation of that area.
[1:04:36] Um it was it was uh no trespassing signs
[1:04:40] were everywhere on that prior to that
[1:04:41] point, but now they opened it up and
[1:04:43] programmed it to recreational activity.
[1:04:46] So some were okay with it, some were
[1:04:48] not. Um generally I think there was
[1:04:50] probably some pretty positive support in
[1:04:52] part because it was so wide. The rideway
[1:04:55] was so wide. Provo Bench Canal and North
[1:04:57] Union Canal, the rideway is anywhere
[1:04:59] from maybe six feet to 20 feet in width.
[1:05:03] >> So it's much tighter.
[1:05:06] >> So the trail in Highland, Sierra Hills
[1:05:09] and Highland.
[1:05:10] >> Which trail?
[1:05:11] >> Narrow, right?
[1:05:12] >> Which one?
[1:05:13] >> Is it the Murdoch Canal Trail that
[1:05:14] continues that goes to to the Jordan
[1:05:16] River?
[1:05:16] >> Yeah. Yes. So how would our can we look
[1:05:20] at how comparatively those neighbors to
[1:05:23] Crystal's point the reception and and I
[1:05:26] mean that's been 35 years right 30 years
[1:05:30] that they
[1:05:31] >> canal is 2015ish
[1:05:33] >> the the ones going through where they
[1:05:35] continued it through Highland and Cedar
[1:05:37] Hills
[1:05:38] >> I think the W through there is similar
[1:05:39] to here
[1:05:40] >> maybe 20 or so
[1:05:41] >> we biked that route a number of times
[1:05:44] the only place where it kind of goes
[1:05:46] away is when you get to uh uh Highland
[1:05:49] Glenn Park.
[1:05:51] Once you come down into that little
[1:05:53] valley, the trail just it's not really
[1:05:56] on the canal anymore. You have to wind
[1:05:58] your way through and then back on city
[1:05:59] streets.
[1:05:59] >> Yeah. And I stand corrected. You're
[1:06:01] right. It was when the Murdoch Canal
[1:06:02] Trail went when they were doing all that that I mean, didn't Highland
[1:06:06] embrace that and they actually put it
[1:06:08] through subdivisions. Um they did.
[1:06:11] >> Yeah.
[1:06:13] wanted it to weave through homes,
[1:06:14] through neighborhoods, and kind of have
[1:06:16] that kind of activity. What was the I'd
[1:06:19] just be curious to know how that all
[1:06:21] ended up, you know, the perception, the how people feel.
[1:06:25] >> I think there's a lot of fear of the
[1:06:26] unknown and if we can help answer some
[1:06:29] of that for some residents to say, okay,
[1:06:32] here's where it's been done before and
[1:06:34] how it turned out,
[1:06:37] it could be helpful. One of the reasons
[1:06:40] we pick methods is uh in their uh
[1:06:44] response to the request for proposals,
[1:06:46] they list people and qualifications or
[1:06:50] experience in dealing with these issues
[1:06:52] and a couple of them uh were very
[1:06:55] involved with the Murdoch and have a
[1:06:58] real good history and and worked on it
[1:07:01] quite a bit and we thought that
[1:07:03] experience would be invaluable for us
[1:07:05] here since we'll be facing similar type
[1:07:08] of issues.
[1:07:09] >> One one of them actually led the project
[1:07:11] Murdoch Canal project. So
[1:07:14] >> the most significant difference is that
[1:07:17] um Murdoch Canal right away was owned by
[1:07:21] that private association.
[1:07:24] So I I think uh that's wonderful and I think I think Method is going to
[1:07:29] do a great job. I think it shouldn't be
[1:07:32] too difficult to ask them of if there's
[1:07:34] other narrower canals
[1:07:37] and and share examples of how that's
[1:07:41] turned out to be
[1:07:43] well used and activated and low crime
[1:07:46] and and a you know an overall benefit to
[1:07:50] the cities where those are located. just
[1:07:53] I think we do a really good job of
[1:07:54] showing comparative analysis
[1:07:57] and Murdoch Canal is obviously a great
[1:07:59] data point, but there's probably a
[1:08:01] couple others we could find around the
[1:08:02] state that that could ease concerns. And
[1:08:06] one of the reasons for bringing this to
[1:08:08] you tonight, even though we're having
[1:08:11] the scoping meeting tomorrow, is so that
[1:08:13] we can relay to them the concerns that
[1:08:17] the council's hearing and the ideas that
[1:08:21] uh we should keep in mind as we go
[1:08:23] through the process. So, this is very
[1:08:25] helpful for me. And one thing that we
[1:08:27] hear a lot of too is um
[1:08:31] there there's there's already activity
[1:08:33] in the canal now. There always has been,
[1:08:37] but concern of what's happening there
[1:08:40] now
[1:08:42] and the fear being um that that's just
[1:08:45] going to escalate if that's opened up to
[1:08:47] a trail.
[1:08:48] Um I remember when we put the pickle
[1:08:50] ball courts at Sharon Park and how crime
[1:08:53] went down
[1:08:55] uh significantly. Um, and so I'm
[1:08:58] wondering if there's any data
[1:09:00] um that could be found that would
[1:09:03] compare,
[1:09:05] you know, just this dead space with no
[1:09:07] eyes on it to a public trail where
[1:09:11] people are coming and going and and if
[1:09:14] that in fact would have a positive
[1:09:15] effect on on
[1:09:19] >> Yeah, that's a great idea. All these are
[1:09:22] great ideas that I'll make sure we talk
[1:09:24] about in our meeting tomorrow. Uh
[1:09:27] because
[1:09:29] things like that, that's one of the
[1:09:31] things I hear and I and I completely
[1:09:34] understand people's concern. Uh now from
[1:09:38] my chain leak fence in my backyard,
[1:09:40] there's going to be a whole bunch of
[1:09:42] people. What does that mean for me? And
[1:09:44] how is that going to work? And
[1:09:46] [clears throat] the concerns and and
[1:09:48] they're real and legitimate.
[1:09:52] to cast a wide net to find examples and
[1:09:56] answers.
[1:10:00] » Thank you.
[1:10:02] >> Right, you're up for the next item for
[1:10:03] the next 15 minutes on our detached
[1:10:05] accessory dwelling units update.
[1:10:07] >> Okay, detached accessory dwelling units.
[1:10:10] Probably saying, why are we doing this?
[1:10:14] State law. States's making us do this.
[1:10:17] Uh the state passed a new law and by
[1:10:20] October 1st we have to have an ordinance
[1:10:23] that allows detached accessory dwelling
[1:10:27] units on at least lots that are 11,000
[1:10:31] square ft or larger. So we have to go
[1:10:35] through this process. Um our timeline's
[1:10:39] fairly short. State law has a few things
[1:10:42] that we have to do. Uh it says get it
[1:10:46] tells us of some things that we can't do
[1:10:48] and then it's silent on some regulations
[1:10:51] that we think we ought to put in. And so
[1:10:55] this just shows you we're taking this to
[1:10:57] planning commission uh July 15th. They
[1:11:00] also have a meeting on August 5th. I
[1:11:04] want to be done with planning commission
[1:11:06] and have told them this is their
[1:11:08] deadline to make any recommendations to
[1:11:11] the council because now it gives uh the
[1:11:14] council August 11th, September 8th, and
[1:11:17] September 22nd to look at and deal with
[1:11:21] an ordinance.
[1:11:22] >> Oh, go ahead.
[1:11:23] >> Oh, no. Go ahead.
[1:11:24] >> The council the Utah League of Cities
[1:11:25] and Towns is doing a webinar tomorrow on
[1:11:27] this,
[1:11:29] just so you know. Did everyone get the
[1:11:32] emailed link from
[1:11:33] >> I didn't know because you were talking
[1:11:34] about dates and that's and then talking
[1:11:36] about tomorrow and that that webinar is
[1:11:38] tomorrow. So tomorrow at noon
[1:11:40] >> at noon so I don't know if you want to
[1:11:42] tune in and
[1:11:44] >> I don't know I haven't it's probably on
[1:11:46] my calendar. I have half the time on my
[1:11:50] calendar.
[1:11:50] >> I do what my calendar says.
[1:11:53] >> So anyway I'm sorry to interrupt.
[1:11:55] >> No. And so what we've done is since if
[1:11:58] we do nothing then we have a state law
[1:12:01] that says we have to allow things and an
[1:12:04] applicant could come in and say you have
[1:12:05] to do this and then there might be areas
[1:12:08] that we could put in for instance what
[1:12:10] are the setbacks state law silent on
[1:12:12] that. So what we're doing is I had uh uh
[1:12:18] the the planning uh division we sat down
[1:12:21] and kind of looked at it and said okay
[1:12:24] what's the the bare uh minimum that we
[1:12:28] need to have in here uh in the ordinance
[1:12:32] and then it's certainly something it's just a place to start for the
[1:12:36] council and the planning commission but
[1:12:38] if the setbacks are not enough that we
[1:12:42] put in the draft ordinance then then you
[1:12:45] know we need to increase those but we
[1:12:47] put in what we thought the minimum
[1:12:49] absolutely should be. So there's a few
[1:12:51] things like that. So in this we have to
[1:12:55] uh they have to comply with building
[1:12:58] codes all of that. Um, we have to allow
[1:13:02] if say somebody has a detached garage,
[1:13:05] we have to allow that to be converted.
[1:13:07] Uh, in but only if it meets the right
[1:13:11] codes and setbacks and things like that.
[1:13:15] Um,
[1:13:16] >> now can I just say I had one near me
[1:13:17] they found that when someone bought the
[1:13:20] property that someone had put people in
[1:13:22] a detached garage and put the sewer in
[1:13:24] the ground, just dug a hole.
[1:13:27] >> So, we're going to be inspecting all
[1:13:29] these. Oh yeah, absolutely.
[1:13:30] >> Be tight control right now.
[1:13:32] >> Yep. And and we're we're going to put in
[1:13:35] we so uh what we can't do so well on
[1:13:41] this we have to allow it. Somebody's got
[1:13:43] a detached garage and it it meets other
[1:13:46] issues. We would have to allow that. One
[1:13:49] thing that we can't do is we can't make
[1:13:51] it go through a conditional use process.
[1:13:54] Uh state law says we can't do that. Um
[1:13:58] the second one this uh requires setbacks
[1:14:01] from property lines or from a detached
[1:14:04] dwelling that make it unreasonably
[1:14:06] difficult.
[1:14:08] And I hate language like that because I
[1:14:11] don't necessarily know what
[1:14:13] unreasonably. So we're trying to look at
[1:14:15] things where we can have good common
[1:14:17] sense uh regulation that protects
[1:14:21] existing neighborhoods while meeting
[1:14:23] state law requirements. Um, and uh, we
[1:14:28] can't require more than two
[1:14:31] on-site parking spots
[1:14:34] for an ADU that's 650 ft or bigger. Uh,
[1:14:38] and we can't require more than one on
[1:14:41] site for one that's less than 650 ft.
[1:14:47] And we have uh we can't the state law requirements
[1:14:54] and we talked a little bit about those
[1:14:56] when we dealt with the building height
[1:14:58] and the new uh building envelope within
[1:15:02] which you can build. There are certain
[1:15:04] elements state law will not allow us to
[1:15:06] regulate. those same requirements apply
[1:15:09] to these detached ADUs.
[1:15:14] And uh but what we can is uh we can
[1:15:21] require that they comply with our lot
[1:15:23] coverage and things like that. That's why the state says you have to
[1:15:28] allow it on 11,000 square feet. We don't
[1:15:31] think we even though the state law would
[1:15:34] allow us to go less than that. We don't
[1:15:36] think we should. We think we ought to
[1:15:38] start with 11,000 square foot lots, keep
[1:15:42] it on that and see how this goes. We
[1:15:44] want to be very careful and cautious in
[1:15:47] our approach and incremental.
[1:15:50] Um, and we can require it to be
[1:15:54] consistent with the main dwelling unit
[1:15:57] and uh we can require that it uh not be
[1:16:02] larger than the primary dwelling unit or
[1:16:05] these uh or in easements, things like
[1:16:09] that that would really interfere
[1:16:12] uh with it uh existing easements and
[1:16:15] things that we do in a lot. We're not
[1:16:17] going to allow them in the front yard.
[1:16:19] They're going to have to be packed
[1:16:21] behind the front yard, set back, and
[1:16:24] they cannot be uh we don't want them to
[1:16:28] be rented for less than 90 consecutive
[1:16:30] days. That if these are accessory
[1:16:33] dwelling units, they are not short-term
[1:16:36] rentals. And we want to make that really
[1:16:38] clear in the ordinance.
[1:16:41] Whereas, if we do nothing and don't
[1:16:44] create an ordinance, there is an
[1:16:46] argument that somebody could say, "Oh,
[1:16:48] if you allow short-term rentals, I could
[1:16:50] use this as a short-term rental."
[1:16:54] And uh
[1:16:57] we can go in and if they take out
[1:16:59] parking to put it in, they have to
[1:17:01] replace the parking. You've got to have
[1:17:04] adequate utilities. We'll be looking at
[1:17:06] that on a case-byase basis.
[1:17:09] uh they have to hook up uh and have the
[1:17:14] uh the capacity for location utilities
[1:17:19] and there's only one whether it's
[1:17:22] detached or it's attached in the home.
[1:17:26] You don't end up with three units.
[1:17:30] And I think that's it. That's it.
[1:17:34] So this is just to I know some of you
[1:17:36] are very familiar with this. We do have
[1:17:39] a short time frame. Um, if we were doing
[1:17:43] this, uh, if we didn't have the short
[1:17:45] time frame that was mandated by state
[1:17:47] law putting these requirements on us,
[1:17:50] uh, we would approach this very
[1:17:52] differently. We'd have a different
[1:17:54] conversation up here and take more time
[1:17:56] to really talk about things and think
[1:17:58] about it and go through the process, but
[1:18:01] we're kind of under the gun with this.
[1:18:02] So, just be aware. Um, I'm not
[1:18:06] necessarily
[1:18:08] tonight looking for a lot of feedback.
[1:18:11] This is just an introduction. And Jared
[1:18:13] sent out to you last week a copy of the
[1:18:17] ordinance. So, you're probably
[1:18:18] wondering, why the heck do I have this
[1:18:20] ordinance? And this is now to give you
[1:18:23] that context why you have it, what's
[1:18:25] going on with it, and be thinking about
[1:18:27] it so that as we come in uh later on in uh August and September that we can
[1:18:36] have those conversations and I would
[1:18:38] imagine we'll want to have another uh
[1:18:41] work session where we can go over maybe
[1:18:44] in more detail exactly how this works
[1:18:47] and uh what an ordinance would do and
[1:18:50] not to we want to make sure you really
[1:18:53] understand and go in to it with your
[1:18:55] eyes wide open on this.
[1:18:57] >> Appreciate it. Um this kind of the heads
[1:19:00] up introduction as the planning
[1:19:02] commission will be tackling this
[1:19:04] tomorrow.
[1:19:05] >> Yes. And they'll be looking at it
[1:19:07] tomorrow. And again, I've told them we
[1:19:10] want uh planning commission's work to be
[1:19:12] done by August 5th so that the council
[1:19:14] has plenty of time come in and think
[1:19:17] about this and look at it.
[1:19:19] Um Gary asking for a friend if I wanted
[1:19:22] to construct a detached catio
[1:19:26] >> is that
[1:19:28] >> and I do that is that possible or
[1:19:30] >> Oh absolutely just do it
[1:19:34] >> being the friend
[1:19:36] [laughter]
[1:19:37] >> I guess dwelling is for people so I
[1:19:39] guess
[1:19:39] >> okay okay I don't know but that's that's
[1:19:41] >> some people feel like their cats are
[1:19:43] like people [laughter]
[1:19:46] » admit to
[1:19:48] Your lot your lot's over 11,000.
[1:19:52] >> It might be close. Yeah,
[1:19:55] >> mine's over 11,000. So
[1:19:57] >> Oh, no. I I just appreciate you and
[1:20:00] staff jumping on this super quickly.
[1:20:02] >> Thank you.
[1:20:04] >> It's been coming quickly and fast and
[1:20:09] >> a lot from the state. So fact that you
[1:20:11] put this much together is is really
[1:20:13] impressive. So thank you.
[1:20:15] >> Thank you. Just a quick question. I
[1:20:17] mean, we have no idea what what the
[1:20:19] response is going to be to this people
[1:20:21] actually doing it, but does that
[1:20:24] >> cause you any heartburn, Chris, with
[1:20:25] infrastructure and pipes and
[1:20:28] >> it's a small impact on utilities
[1:20:33] for single family dwelling.
[1:20:35] >> If we have lots of them popping up all
[1:20:38] over,
[1:20:40] >> I mean, if we double number of units
[1:20:42] throughout the city, then that would be
[1:20:43] a concern.
[1:20:45] Don't see that happening.
[1:20:48] >> Lots this size of normal.
[1:20:50] >> Most of them are 8,000 or smaller.
[1:20:51] >> Yeah. And with the 11,000 square ft and
[1:20:56] just looking at a kind of a normal size
[1:20:58] home on 10 11,000 square ft, it would be
[1:21:02] hard
[1:21:03] uh to situate a 650 700 square foot
[1:21:09] detached unit and still have a
[1:21:12] functioning area. And when you get down
[1:21:14] to 8,000 square ft, boy, that's really
[1:21:18] difficult. Uh I know some communities
[1:21:21] have come in and they're embracing this
[1:21:25] type of thing and I'm not suggesting
[1:21:27] uh we do this but if the community
[1:21:31] wanted to do something what what they
[1:21:33] are doing or thinking about doing is
[1:21:36] they have kind of a standard offtheshelf
[1:21:40] couple of plans that if you come in and
[1:21:44] do it it's very easy. It's been
[1:21:46] pre-looked at by public works,
[1:21:48] pre-looked at by building inspection,
[1:21:51] and it helps people quickly go through
[1:21:53] that process. It gets cited in an
[1:21:55] appropriate place. And if we were to do
[1:21:58] anything like that, again,
[1:22:01] you know that planning, half of planning
[1:22:05] is the law of unintended consequences.
[1:22:07] You come in and you do something. I I
[1:22:10] like the approach of let's see how many
[1:22:12] people come in on 11,000 foot lots. See
[1:22:16] what the impact is. See what the issues
[1:22:18] are and then we can have a conversation
[1:22:21] later on whether it makes sense to do
[1:22:24] something different.
[1:22:27] >> So the draft ordinance that you sent us
[1:22:29] because it's not in the packet, right?
[1:22:30] So but on July 8th, has that changed
[1:22:33] since where you are today? No.
[1:22:35] >> Presentation. These are all
[1:22:38] >> the same. Yes, the the these these are
[1:22:40] all the same. It hasn't changed.
[1:22:43] >> Um so you're you're seeing what planning
[1:22:46] commission's seeing. You're all seeing
[1:22:47] it together. Planning commission any
[1:22:49] changes that they'll get will make sure
[1:22:52] that you know what's different from and
[1:22:56] that's why we want to have several
[1:22:57] meetings. I think this is such an
[1:23:00] important [clears throat] issue. I'd
[1:23:01] like to have, you know, at least one if
[1:23:04] not two work meetings before it's on any
[1:23:07] sort of action meeting so that we can go
[1:23:09] through it, really understand it. And again, as staff, what we've tried to
[1:23:14] do is take what state law mandating that
[1:23:16] we do, put it into ordinance form, and
[1:23:20] then where it's silent, but we think
[1:23:22] that silence creates a problem for us,
[1:23:25] put in a standard that we think is the
[1:23:27] bare minimum that we should have as a
[1:23:29] city. We wouldn't want to see anything
[1:23:31] less. And the the best example of that
[1:23:34] would be the setbacks that have those
[1:23:36] setbacks. You could go less. I would
[1:23:39] suggest you don't, but the council
[1:23:42] could.
[1:23:44] >> Thank you. Will you express our
[1:23:45] appreciation to the planning commission
[1:23:47] for them to them for looking at this and
[1:23:51] giving us recommendations?
[1:23:53] >> I will not. I don't want them getting
[1:23:54] big hats. So are they [laughter]
[1:23:57] >> should we send the them
[1:24:00] >> the webinar for UCT or I don't I don't
[1:24:03] know what their background is.
[1:24:06] Yeah, that would be a good idea. We we
[1:24:07] can send that out.
[1:24:09] >> New right. So I think they're barely
[1:24:10] even learning land use. So
[1:24:12] >> we we can get that sent out to them. And
[1:24:15] one thing I am uh going to be proposing
[1:24:19] and and I and Quinn's not here. he's
[1:24:22] online I think is I would suggest it's
[1:24:25] about time that we have a council a
[1:24:27] joint meeting of council and planning
[1:24:29] commission to kind of talk about you
[1:24:32] know what the council's vision is for
[1:24:34] things and how planning commission can
[1:24:36] support that and
[1:24:38] >> let's do it
[1:24:39] >> that would be something and I apologize
[1:24:42] to Quinn that I haven't
[1:24:44] >> he's
[1:24:46] no I'm I'm very supportive of that Gary
[1:24:49] u mayor if we have time for a question I
[1:24:51] have have one for Gary on this issue.
[1:24:55] Uh, one thing that's important to me
[1:24:57] because there there's a fair amount of
[1:24:58] uncertainty as to what the impacts are
[1:25:00] going to look like, how many people will
[1:25:02] want to do this, um, you know, how it
[1:25:06] will affect neighborhoods. Uh, we have a
[1:25:09] number of cities in the state that have
[1:25:11] quite a bit of experience with it. I
[1:25:13] think Gary, specifically in Salt Lake
[1:25:15] County, quite a few cities have
[1:25:17] experience with it. I think Logan also
[1:25:18] does.
[1:25:19] It would be really helpful for planning
[1:25:21] commission, I think, to uh learn from
[1:25:25] those cities that have ordinances that
[1:25:28] allow detached ADUs in advance of this
[1:25:31] state requirement so that we have a
[1:25:34] better sense of how many we might get um
[1:25:37] and how conservative we might need to be
[1:25:40] with respect to demand. Um, so I would
[1:25:42] just encourage us to
[1:25:45] u to learn from other cities experiences
[1:25:48] before we make too many assumptions.
[1:25:51] >> No, that's that's a great idea. We can
[1:25:54] have uh someone contact those places to
[1:25:57] get information. It's in planning you if
[1:26:01] somebody's already done something
[1:26:02] similar to this, it just pays to go find
[1:26:05] out what their experience is. So we'll
[1:26:07] do the same thing. Can I just ask? So, I
[1:26:09] wasn't able to watch the I know you
[1:26:11] watched the one last week from ULCT.
[1:26:14] Were there highlights here? Um, you
[1:26:18] know, I appreciate that ULCT is always
[1:26:20] one size miss, right? That's kind of
[1:26:22] their their scope that they look at
[1:26:24] things. And I just want to kind of ask,
[1:26:28] is that the way they're approaching
[1:26:29] this?
[1:26:31] >> At this point, it's already a mandate by
[1:26:33] the state.
[1:26:35] >> I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just
[1:26:36] saying from our ability to legislate
[1:26:39] additional cuz like he says
[1:26:41] >> webinars probably
[1:26:44] >> they talk about it already though. What
[1:26:45] did they talk about?
[1:26:47] >> They've been pushing for cities to just
[1:26:49] make sure you're looking at that.
[1:26:52] >> Make sure you're getting that
[1:26:54] grace period.
[1:26:55] >> No suggestions yet. Just
[1:26:56] >> no suggestions yet other than
[1:26:59] >> don't be caught unawares come October
[1:27:01] 1st when that comes into play. That's
[1:27:04] what they've been pushing in my opinion.
[1:27:06] >> Great. Thank you.
[1:27:08] >> All right. Thank you.
[1:27:11] All right. It is 5 o'clock and before we
[1:27:13] go to the next item, I I would like us
[1:27:16] to be able to go I think dinner's ready.
[1:27:18] Just a couple of things. Um you'll see
[1:27:21] council that your the seat assignments
[1:27:24] have changed
[1:27:26] um in the in the council chambers. I use
[1:27:29] the highly technical random number
[1:27:31] generator because that to do that except
[1:27:34] council member Lamson has to sit next to
[1:27:36] me because he's the mayor pro tam. So
[1:27:38] you we have no but where you're sitting
[1:27:40] is where the computer gods put you
[1:27:43] [laughter] for this six months [gasps]
[1:27:46] and and so um just let you know that and
[1:27:50] then I've asked council member Mulestein
[1:27:51] if she would offer a blessing on the
[1:27:53] food.
[1:27:56] Our dear heavenly father, we're grateful
[1:27:58] for the opportunity we have to meet
[1:27:59] together city council and staff to
[1:28:02] discuss the needs of city bless us
[1:28:05] spirit with us. Please bless us food.
[1:28:07] Help it to give us strength and energy
[1:28:09] to
[1:28:10] have clear minds as we continue our
[1:28:14] meeting
[1:28:15] things in the name of Jesus Christ.
[1:28:16] Amen.
[1:39:14] item for in our in this section.
[1:39:19] It's a presentation on property tax
[1:39:22] calculator.
[1:39:24] Um Jessica Jones our strategy and
[1:39:26] innovation director and Pete Wiling
[1:39:29] director
[1:39:31] minutes.
[1:39:34] » Thank you Mayor. So come before you and
[1:39:38] uh share some of the resources that
[1:39:40] we've been on to help community and our
[1:39:43] employees understand the proposal that's
[1:39:46] before you for the project tax uh at the
[1:39:49] end of August. And so the way we've
[1:39:51] structured the website, it's basically
[1:39:53] if you're interested in just an elevator
[1:39:54] pitch, you can get that. If you want the
[1:39:56] five minute version, you can get that.
[1:39:58] If you want to get down into the all the
[1:40:00] resources, that as well. So at the very
[1:40:03] surface level, basically what we're
[1:40:05] saying is four quarters, two cops, one
[1:40:07] saber forum or one safer. And so if
[1:40:11] people are contacting you, if they're
[1:40:12] having questions about this, you can
[1:40:14] point them to this website and URL is
[1:40:17] to.govt.
[1:40:19] TNT standing for truth and taxation. And
[1:40:21] that's what this whole website is kind
[1:40:23] of built uh to do is follow that process
[1:40:25] that we've been going through all these
[1:40:27] meetings showing
[1:40:30] you state law. You have to be completely
[1:40:33] transparent transparent when you're
[1:40:35] considering property tax.
[1:40:37] And so the website
[1:40:39] >> [clears throat]
[1:40:39] >> u is just built out simply at first and
[1:40:42] then as I mentioned gets into more
[1:40:43] detail. So answers some of the basic
[1:40:46] questions people tell them the context
[1:40:48] and the background gives them the quick
[1:40:50] points here um that if people just
[1:40:53] needed a quick fiveminute version of
[1:40:55] everything that we've been talking about
[1:40:56] for the last month uh we can do that
[1:40:58] also built out with the help of some of
[1:41:00] our IT staff um this calculator tool
[1:41:04] where you can actually go in put in your
[1:41:06] market value your assessed market value
[1:41:09] and it will break down your tax bill and
[1:41:11] that's what Jennica is going to talk
[1:41:12] about and then we can look a little bit
[1:41:14] deeper
[1:41:14] in the website if you're interested.
[1:41:17] >> Okay. So, the uh the goal is we've tried
[1:41:21] to keep it simple. We don't want people
[1:41:22] to have to go and look for a lot of
[1:41:24] information, but we do want them to see,
[1:41:27] you know, this website and everything
[1:41:28] we've structured has been around the
[1:41:30] average. What's the impact on the
[1:41:32] average ORM homeowner? What's the total
[1:41:34] impact? But when it comes down to it,
[1:41:36] residents want to know how is this going
[1:41:37] to affect me based on my property value?
[1:41:41] Um, so this is meant to help them see
[1:41:44] where their property tax dollars go and
[1:41:45] then what's the impact of the proposed
[1:41:47] orum increase on their specific property
[1:41:50] value. So we'll start with the average
[1:41:53] market value in ORM. We'll slide over
[1:41:55] here cuz I can't see. Uh, so it kind of
[1:42:00] puts this here the 520,000 that's the
[1:42:02] average property market assessed value
[1:42:04] in new or in Warm City County for 2026.
[1:42:09] But obviously they can tailor that to
[1:42:10] whatever they want. If they want to look
[1:42:12] up their specific property, we link them
[1:42:14] to the Google County website where they
[1:42:15] can input their address and search for
[1:42:17] their actual property value. They can
[1:42:20] also use Zillow as an estimate. Won't be
[1:42:22] completely accurate, but they their
[1:42:24] value is actually the exact average
[1:42:26] $520,000.
[1:42:28] So the first thing it will do is show
[1:42:30] them the market value of their home and
[1:42:32] then 45% residential exemption for Utah.
[1:42:35] So taxable value of their home is just
[1:42:37] this 55%. So once they click this
[1:42:40] button, uh we'll kind of come back to
[1:42:42] this cuz this is the correct of this
[1:42:44] rule showing them how it affects their
[1:42:47] property taxes. But down here, it kind
[1:42:49] of outlines how their property tax bill
[1:42:51] is structured. Um for these other
[1:42:54] entities, I will note that we are using
[1:42:57] their 2025 rates. We don't have access
[1:42:59] to their 2026 rates broken down this
[1:43:02] way. And we wanted this to really focus
[1:43:04] on the impact of the city tax increase.
[1:43:06] We don't want to factor in any changes
[1:43:08] that they're considering that just
[1:43:10] muddies the waters. We want them to
[1:43:11] focus on, you know, what's the warm
[1:43:14] impact to my bill. So you highlight
[1:43:16] here, this is how broken down. So this
[1:43:19] is our 2026 rate. If we our certified
[1:43:21] rate, if we don't do an increase would
[1:43:23] be this. 0590.
[1:43:26] This is how much they would pay in city
[1:43:27] property tax for that line item versus
[1:43:30] what's the proposed increase
[1:43:33] 631 seems to be $180 in this scenario.
[1:43:36] And then the bond is separate and that
[1:43:38] remains the same in both scenarios. So
[1:43:40] there's also these info boxes that pop
[1:43:41] up and kind of highlight different
[1:43:44] things like why why is this general now
[1:43:46] zero and something. So just again more
[1:43:50] education about what is being proposed
[1:43:53] uh the new line item that would appear
[1:43:54] on their notice that they'll be sent
[1:43:56] out. So for the schools, the county and
[1:43:59] special districts those amounts will
[1:44:01] remain the same in both scenarios. So
[1:44:03] really they'll see the total property
[1:44:04] tax 2273 estimate
[1:44:08] without the increase and then 2285 with
[1:44:10] the increase. Again the actual amounts
[1:44:12] will likely be different depends on what
[1:44:14] these these final values end up being.
[1:44:17] um is accurate is the forum impact. So,
[1:44:23] you know, without the increase, I would
[1:44:25] pay $212 total to the city and that
[1:44:27] covers the uh public safety and the bond
[1:44:31] [clears throat] or the general and the
[1:44:33] bond in that case. And then with the
[1:44:35] increase, I've paid 2.3. These are
[1:44:36] rounded amounts. So, that's why it's
[1:44:38] slightly different. And then break it
[1:44:39] down for annual and monthly so they can
[1:44:42] see, you know, okay, this is less than a
[1:44:44] dollar a month for me. And then at the
[1:44:46] bottom here, we've also broken it down
[1:44:47] to show them where is this money
[1:44:50] actually going. So they're paying $180
[1:44:54] into this line item for the public
[1:44:56] safety fund in this scenario. So where's
[1:44:59] that going? $104 is going to the police
[1:45:01] department. $77 is going to the fire
[1:45:04] department. And then breaking it down
[1:45:05] for personnel, operations, and capital
[1:45:07] to align with our budget and kind of see
[1:45:09] like
[1:45:09] >> I think you got those numbers back.
[1:45:14] numbers don't lie.
[1:45:17] >> Maybe next year.
[1:45:20] >> So they can hover over and see like
[1:45:22] what's included in this. So for fire,
[1:45:24] there's the 104 sworn firefighters. It
[1:45:27] covers their wages benefit. So they can
[1:45:31] see exactly where their money is going
[1:45:33] and hopefully be able to see and feel
[1:45:35] the impact of that. Okay. Yeah, I'm
[1:45:37] paying $180. I know exactly where it's
[1:45:40] going and why. So, um, and again, I I'll
[1:45:43] just plug in like say maybe my property
[1:45:45] is worth $800,000
[1:45:48] and so,
[1:45:50] uh, I'm going to have to re recalulate.
[1:45:53] So, for a property of that value, their
[1:45:54] impact would be about $18 or $150 a
[1:45:57] month. So, really, it's not a complex
[1:46:00] thing. We want it to be simple to
[1:46:01] understand and feedback. If there's
[1:46:03] things that you feel are missing or have
[1:46:05] questions about,
[1:46:07] make adjustments to this real
[1:46:10] First of all, I think this is fabulous.
[1:46:13] Oh, great. And I think our residents
[1:46:14] will appreciate it. And maybe you showed
[1:46:16] this. Is there a place that we could at
[1:46:18] least
[1:46:20] representation of what percent or taxes
[1:46:22] are relative to their total?
[1:46:24] >> Yeah, we don't have it in a chart
[1:46:25] format. The only thing we have right now
[1:46:27] is like in 2025 about 9.5%
[1:46:30] to the city, but we could definitely add
[1:46:32] that if that's something that would be
[1:46:34] valuable like whether it's a chart or
[1:46:36] even percentage wise. Yeah,
[1:46:38] >> I think it'd be cool for them to just
[1:46:40] quickly see, oh, this is like, you know,
[1:46:42] very pretty small percentage of the
[1:46:43] overall size.
[1:46:44] >> Yeah, and that's what we try to
[1:46:45] emphasize both on the website and here.
[1:46:47] Um, that this this increase only affects
[1:46:52] the city portion. So, we're not talking
[1:46:53] about an increase of this 7% to your
[1:46:56] entire property tax bill. It's only to
[1:46:58] that or that 9.5%
[1:47:01] of your property tax bill.
[1:47:06] » Yeah, I support that, too. I like that
[1:47:07] idea.
[1:47:11] » If I could mention one thing.
[1:47:12] >> Yes.
[1:47:14] >> Not to name any cities out there, but
[1:47:15] there is once it's proposing an increase
[1:47:18] that's larger than
[1:47:20] >> right now.
[1:47:28] Someone in this room may want to move.
[1:47:33] » Coming in.
[1:47:34] >> When does this go? Is this is this live
[1:47:36] now?
[1:47:36] >> This is available. We haven't pushed it
[1:47:38] out because we wanted to show it to you
[1:47:39] first. Maintain your feedback um before
[1:47:42] we start advertising that this is a
[1:47:43] resource for people.
[1:47:45] >> We want it to be a tool that you can use
[1:47:46] as you have questions from residents um
[1:47:50] >> whoever.
[1:47:52] >> Well, we have some videos.
[1:47:56] >> Yeah. And we can jump back into the
[1:47:57] website and I'll show you some of the
[1:47:58] other stuff we've worked on.
[1:47:59] >> Yeah. One thing I do want to mention
[1:48:00] here with this, we uh used our in-house
[1:48:03] developers that created my created this
[1:48:06] from the ground up.
[1:48:08] >> And so I I think that this also shows
[1:48:11] interesting why we do in-house
[1:48:13] developing. So we educate the city.
[1:48:15] >> We sell it to other cities that are
[1:48:18] happy.
[1:48:18] >> So you know actually yeah my intern had
[1:48:20] found an example of another city that
[1:48:23] had a software and it's like a platform
[1:48:24] that this isn't what they advertise that
[1:48:25] they do and we're like we can do that.
[1:48:28] Why not? And it's so they're able to
[1:48:30] turn it around really quickly to our
[1:48:33] development team.
[1:48:36] >> Um
[1:48:38] maybe you already mentioned this, but
[1:48:39] would it be possible to have this inter
[1:48:42] meeting as part of the presentation?
[1:48:48] » I don't know. Like
[1:48:53] >> I just like I I like the way that it's
[1:48:55] so easy to understand.
[1:48:58] That's a clear picture. I don't want to
[1:49:00] get anyone into water. If we not
[1:49:03] supposed to do that, they would do mine.
[1:49:06] >> Okay. Like they were designed.
[1:49:15] » Any other comments on the on the tool
[1:49:17] itself, the calculator?
[1:49:19] >> Very cool. Great.
[1:49:24] » Uh Pete, I I love it. I think it's it's
[1:49:26] an awesome tool. Uh, one thing that I do
[1:49:30] think is very helpful for people to
[1:49:31] understand and I don't know if it makes
[1:49:34] sense to put it in or adjacent to the
[1:49:36] calculator, but just u how our overall
[1:49:40] tax burden compares to uh other cities
[1:49:43] that they're familiar with. I think
[1:49:45] >> that helps them understand how how lean
[1:49:47] and mean we are.
[1:49:48] >> You should mention that. I'm glad you
[1:49:50] mentioned that because right here in the quick facts uh we have a little
[1:49:55] chart and you've seen this in the budget
[1:49:57] book before but it shows you how we
[1:49:59] compare to cities other cities in close
[1:50:01] by cities you can see the average is at
[1:50:04] 14 or 14% or I'm down here and that does
[1:50:08] include
[1:50:09] >> that's with our that's our proposed
[1:50:11] increase and this is other cities
[1:50:13] existing 2025 rates and so we know that
[1:50:16] several of them are considering
[1:50:17] increases as well. Well, we know that
[1:50:20] it's not going to remain at point
[1:50:23] that clarifies that point that this is
[1:50:25] our
[1:50:26] >> for sure like when will we cities?
[1:50:28] >> I mean, we you can we can get their rate
[1:50:31] proposal. We just obviously they have
[1:50:33] the same timeline as us as far as when
[1:50:35] they
[1:50:40] » go.
[1:50:42] Well, and something we could add to
[1:50:44] this, you have it I have it on another
[1:50:45] chart that we in our citizens budget,
[1:50:48] but like what does that mean annually?
[1:50:51] So, like if you have the same this value
[1:50:53] of home in this city, what's that uh
[1:50:55] burden look like? Because that helps
[1:50:57] them too. Like, okay, this rate doesn't
[1:50:59] mean a lot, but if we add um if I'm
[1:51:03] looking at a $520,000 home, what does
[1:51:05] that mean that I'm paying in vineyards
[1:51:06] compared to or
[1:51:09] something?
[1:51:09] >> So, yeah, even
[1:51:11] >> Exactly. I'm giving you more. That's
[1:51:12] right. I mean, it's even with the
[1:51:14] property tax increase that's proposed,
[1:51:15] we it'll be tight for last. Um,
[1:51:20] >> we have that there in the quick facts.
[1:51:22] Uh, we talked about ORM's track record.
[1:51:24] You know, in the last 48 years, there's
[1:51:25] only been one property tax increase and
[1:51:28] I think the last time we did it was
[1:51:29] quarters for each house.
[1:51:33] The idea was the 2012 one.
[1:51:35] >> Well, I don't remember. EL.
[1:51:51] » Um, so yeah, so we we kind of put that
[1:51:53] in there. We explain a little bit about
[1:51:55] the uh dedicated public safety fund. If
[1:51:58] that ends up going through, then people
[1:52:00] can learn about that. Um, and then we
[1:52:02] talk about the scope and the
[1:52:03] sustainability, why we're doing it.
[1:52:04] There's some just notices about the tax
[1:52:07] notice that you may receive that you get
[1:52:08] 100% increase. That kind of explains
[1:52:10] that it's not your taxes aren't going up
[1:52:12] 100%. It's just that this fund is being
[1:52:14] funded for the first time. Therefore,
[1:52:16] that's how it's being noted.
[1:52:18] >> That needs to be
[1:52:20] unless you're going
[1:52:23] >> here. We just have a a set of notices
[1:52:26] and uh resources. So, letting people
[1:52:28] know that the final, you know, the
[1:52:30] decision will be made on August 27th at
[1:52:32] 6 PM part of our truth and taxation
[1:52:34] public hearing. We have the legal
[1:52:36] notices that were sent out. Uh people
[1:52:38] can comment publicly in public form and
[1:52:40] then based on the law, they'll also have
[1:52:42] the chance to comment virtually on that
[1:52:47] uh August 27th meeting, which is
[1:52:48] something we've never had before. So,
[1:52:50] this will be this will be interesting,
[1:52:51] but that's part of the new law. We have
[1:52:53] all the financial documents that are
[1:52:55] related to this decision. We have the
[1:52:56] sustainability plan, the interim
[1:52:58] budgets. So people, these are for people
[1:53:00] who want to really pay into it. Here's
[1:53:03] the property tax calculator again linked
[1:53:06] uh for people. And then uh you've
[1:53:09] probably seen these videos, but the the
[1:53:12] league has put together series of eight
[1:53:14] or nine videos that really explain how
[1:53:15] Utah property taxes work. And this is
[1:53:18] maybe one of the biggest challenges we
[1:53:19] face with property tax education is it's
[1:53:21] different in every other state. Utah is
[1:53:23] very unique in the way that they do it
[1:53:25] with the exemption and then, you know,
[1:53:27] cities don't get any more money based on
[1:53:30] increasing valuations. You know, it's
[1:53:32] just kind of capped at whatever the, you
[1:53:34] know, the amount is. Um, and so that's
[1:53:36] just not intuitive to people, you know,
[1:53:38] who maybe have experience with other states. Um, so from that point, so
[1:53:43] these this is all like the quick stuff
[1:53:44] that people can click on.
[1:53:45] >> Hey, can I make a comment?
[1:53:46] >> Yes, please do.
[1:53:47] >> So, let's see. public comment form
[1:53:52] >> participate in the hearing virtually.
[1:53:53] Can we have a link that gives a little
[1:53:55] more information and opportunity for
[1:53:57] them to do that?
[1:53:58] >> Yeah. So, what this will Yeah. So, what
[1:54:00] we'll do is pull it off of here, put it
[1:54:01] in here, and then they'll be able to
[1:54:03] essentially enter the queue.
[1:54:04] >> Yeah. Just kind of make it easier. Okay.
[1:54:06] >> I'll do that.
[1:54:08] >> Um, and then from this point, you just
[1:54:10] start talking about the reasons why we
[1:54:12] feel like we have to do this. And one of
[1:54:15] the first things that we we put in here
[1:54:16] is just how up to this point over the 48
[1:54:19] years forum has really done everything
[1:54:21] we we feel like we can do to stretch the
[1:54:24] money that we have. And you know, so
[1:54:26] once again, it references the one
[1:54:27] property tax uh increase since 1978. We
[1:54:31] did the efficiency study a few years
[1:54:33] back. Uh the department restructurings
[1:54:35] to save, you know, the million dollars.
[1:54:37] This kind of goes back to what we were
[1:54:39] talking about earlier, how even when you
[1:54:41] take the fees and the taxes and add them
[1:54:43] all together, Lauram is right at the
[1:54:46] bottom of what it costs to live in, you
[1:54:48] know, this area. Um, and then shout out
[1:54:52] to Jennica's team, you know, 17 almost
[1:54:55] $18 million in grants since 2023. Just
[1:54:58] showing people that, you know, asking
[1:55:00] for a tax increase or property tax
[1:55:02] increase is not the default. We've we've
[1:55:04] gone through all these different things
[1:55:05] to try to not do this, but we only asked
[1:55:08] because we feel like it's f it's finally
[1:55:10] necessary.
[1:55:12] The next point is uh how public safety
[1:55:16] costs have been impacted by inflation.
[1:55:18] And these are just two data points that
[1:55:20] we've pulled. How you know this is what
[1:55:21] it costs to do a patrol vehicle in 2016.
[1:55:25] Then this is what it costs to do it now.
[1:55:27] This one is the most shocking to me
[1:55:28] where you know this is just in 2020, you
[1:55:31] know, five six years ago. How much the
[1:55:33] engine cost? This is how much it cost.
[1:55:35] You know, it's most recent one that we
[1:55:37] ordered.
[1:55:37] >> Just a helicopter.
[1:55:41] » Already checked.
[1:55:52] » And the vehicles are the big lift.
[1:55:56] >> Can I just say this is apples to apples.
[1:55:58] So this isn't a small fire engine
[1:56:00] compared to a ladder truck. is tiller
[1:56:04] >> cost
[1:56:05] >> and and I think the residents will
[1:56:07] understand this because we've all felt
[1:56:08] they
[1:56:10] everything is so much more expensive
[1:56:12] than it was just years ago. Um and then
[1:56:16] this is the third point is you know ORM
[1:56:18] has grown in different ways are are the
[1:56:21] people that sleep here that hasn't
[1:56:22] increased that much over the last 10
[1:56:24] years maybe 1% a year or something but
[1:56:27] the daily percentage the daytime
[1:56:29] population of ORM is off the charts
[1:56:31] higher than it's ever been uh between
[1:56:33] the UVU students and all the visitors
[1:56:35] that come here for shopping and working
[1:56:37] and sports and uh you know whatever else
[1:56:40] what come to ORM for that population is
[1:56:44] taken off in the last several years. Uh
[1:56:47] we estimate there's about 42 million
[1:56:49] visitors to ORM. That's not unique
[1:56:51] visitors, but people who don't live in
[1:56:52] ORM, there's 42 million trips to ORM
[1:56:55] every single year. U you know half of
[1:56:58] them are probably at the farmers market
[1:57:01] [laughter]
[1:57:04] » but that you know that population we
[1:57:07] also need a help police side too, right
[1:57:09] Chief? You know, you'll see this this
[1:57:11] video here we have with um is it
[1:57:14] Lieutenant Lieutenant Fent? Um you'll
[1:57:16] see this in the next meeting, but he
[1:57:17] basically explains Ormfest and all the
[1:57:21] effort and time and resources that go
[1:57:23] into making a safe event happen. And you
[1:57:26] know, our events have gotten more
[1:57:27] popular the last several years. And you
[1:57:30] know, an extra police presence is uh
[1:57:32] just part of the cost really of making
[1:57:34] those events great and safe for
[1:57:36] everybody. And then, you know, we have
[1:57:39] maybe a dozen uh frequently asked
[1:57:40] questions, things that people have
[1:57:42] already asked, both parts, answer in a
[1:57:44] succinct way. You've probably
[1:57:46] [clears throat] gotten emails,
[1:57:47] questions, phone calls about it. And so,
[1:57:50] we've tried to take everything we've
[1:57:51] heard thus far and some of the other
[1:57:52] things that we haven't heard, but we
[1:57:53] intend or we anticipate we will hear uh
[1:57:56] and answer those through here. And so,
[1:57:59] that [snorts] is kind of the website in
[1:58:01] a nutshell as it stands. any feedback on
[1:58:04] where we're at, the information that's
[1:58:06] available,
[1:58:08] anything like that.
[1:58:12] » So, awesome. When can we share it?
[1:58:14] >> If everyone's good with where it stands,
[1:58:16] we can share it now. Um, so what we'll
[1:58:18] do is build our not [clears throat] our
[1:58:20] campaign, but like ourformational
[1:58:23] informationational campaign off of this.
[1:58:25] Um, so if if we like where this is at,
[1:58:26] then we can start doing smaller pieces
[1:58:29] educating people maybe on social media
[1:58:30] or in the newsletter. I believe
[1:58:32] [clears throat]
[1:58:35] » Carol looks good.
[1:58:36] >> Yeah, feeling good.
[1:58:38] >> Thank you.
[1:58:40] [clears throat] She's stretch.
[1:58:41] >> Do you stretch?
[1:58:42] >> No. How long is her length? She's a
[1:58:44] sergeant now, I guess, though.
[1:58:52] » All right. Any other questions,
[1:58:54] comments? Council,
[1:58:56] >> thank you for doing that.
[1:58:57] >> Thank you.
[1:58:57] >> That's very important. And as you hear
[1:58:59] from people, just let us know because
[1:59:01] this is so easy to update the questions
[1:59:03] that haven't been answered. We'd love to
[1:59:04] do the research and figure it out.
[1:59:08] >> For you guys, because for me
[1:59:12] again, some of the feedback that you
[1:59:14] andor residents may have is just to
[1:59:16] highlight things differently
[1:59:18] or or turn uh words into visuals.
[1:59:24] >> So, we're just we're open to all of
[1:59:26] that.
[1:59:27] What what kind of things have you been
[1:59:28] hearing? I mean, I've seen I've talked
[1:59:29] to people. I've seen what's on social
[1:59:31] media. What are people saying to you
[1:59:33] guys?
[1:59:34] >> Uh why why
[1:59:37] thing and it's and it's and the four
[1:59:39] quarters to cops and an easy
[1:59:41] explanation.
[1:59:43] >> I'm getting the why because it's not a
[1:59:45] lot. It's $450,000. They say, "Can't you
[1:59:47] find that somewhere else?"
[1:59:48] >> Yeah. I'm sorry I interrupted you. I
[1:59:50] thought you were talking. All
[1:59:52] I just I love the simple elegant pitch
[1:59:55] of this is why and this is where it's
[1:59:58] going and I have not had anyone to this
[2:00:01] point
[2:00:03] express any concern with that.
[2:00:06] the people I've talked to, it's been
[2:00:07] like, you know, they're they're quite
[2:00:09] alarmed at first, but then as you
[2:00:11] explain it, you know, everyone's been
[2:00:13] about it.
[2:00:21] All right.
[2:00:22] Thank you.
[2:00:24] All right. The next item we have from
[2:00:27] the city council report. And so, Council
[2:00:29] Member Kilpac,
[2:00:32] you're up.
[2:00:32] >> Thank you.
[2:00:35] Well, it's it's always a pleasure to uh
[2:00:37] participate in all of the events and the
[2:00:40] things that happen within the city of
[2:00:41] ORM. This year, I've been assigned to
[2:00:45] work with the chief and those are
[2:00:48] reports you've seen. We have that
[2:00:50] 3,000,000 extra put into there
[2:00:55] capital funds that I sit on that uh
[2:00:59] committee to help make sure those funds
[2:01:01] go where they go and be up to speed to
[2:01:05] represent all of the
[2:01:07] I also um
[2:01:10] I'm on the board of directors of the
[2:01:12] scholarship project
[2:01:16] be involved with those uh exciting
[2:01:18] wonderful talented
[2:01:26] wonderful scholarship
[2:01:29] that's uh come and now that's over with
[2:01:31] the next few months you know the uh
[2:01:34] neighborhood advisory commission it's
[2:01:36] [clears throat] they move every other
[2:01:39] month and uh this consists of the nine
[2:01:43] districts within the city
[2:01:46] and there two members so there's
[2:01:49] individuals that sit on that commission.
[2:01:50] There's uh right now we're trying to
[2:01:52] fill three vacancies.
[2:01:55] So we'll be
[2:01:59] she wishes with all of us. I'm not sure
[2:02:01] whether that and then uh I serve on the
[2:02:05] uh youth council with uh council
[2:02:09] McMillstein
[2:02:11] and also uh and that's we're just
[2:02:13] gearing up again now for the next school
[2:02:15] year that finished off last
[2:02:18] spring and now we're kicking it off
[2:02:20] again and then we have been involved
[2:02:22] with the UVU business resource center
[2:02:24] and helping with that as we integrate
[2:02:27] and interface with the the resource
[2:02:29] center to help businesses flourish.
[2:02:32] Those are the the main areas that I
[2:02:34] focus on with my assignments. Um,
[2:02:39] probably be the one that has the most
[2:02:41] impact lately has been the neighborhood
[2:02:43] commission with all of the changes with
[2:02:46] the STRS
[2:02:49] neighborhood enforcement team, the NIT
[2:02:50] team. We've had several presentations
[2:02:53] there. We also have uh been involved in
[2:02:57] initiatives
[2:02:59] being beautified through
[2:03:01] beautifification awards,
[2:03:05] other events such as that and then
[2:03:06] heavily involved as we all were
[2:03:10] in participated in this assistance
[2:03:15] neighborhoods.
[2:03:16] Just standing on the shoulders of those
[2:03:18] this commission in the past. We're
[2:03:20] striving to just meet the needs of these
[2:03:22] citizens that have a resource for them.
[2:03:29] » Any questions?
[2:03:31] >> You're all familiar with this as you've
[2:03:33] done.
[2:03:34] >> I met the new BRC business resource
[2:03:37] center director today. Yes. The orange
[2:03:39] business alliance.
[2:03:41] They got some exciting things planned as
[2:03:44] far as they go forward in addition to
[2:03:46] add some programming to what they're
[2:03:48] doing right now.
[2:03:51] Thank you.
[2:03:52] >> Thank you. Appreciate your your report.
[2:03:56] >> All right, council. Our agenda this
[2:03:57] evening is
[2:04:00] I'm not going to jinx or anything. I
[2:04:02] just It's here. We have it here. And we
[2:04:04] got three uh or five items. Do we know
[2:04:07] who's doing the u invocation
[2:04:10] inspirational thought?
[2:04:11] >> So Brad Sorson and Michelle Sornson.
[2:04:14] is one of the members
[2:04:17] of our new school district.
[2:04:19] >> Hey,
[2:04:20] >> Michelle and Brad.
[2:04:23] >> Hey, great. Then we have
[2:04:27] um report items. It looks like they're
[2:04:29] all related to Ormfest or events on that
[2:04:33] personal appearances. And then our
[2:04:35] consent item this evening is to approve
[2:04:38] meeting minutes
[2:04:40] and three different sets of minutes
[2:04:42] there from Monday June.
[2:04:44] You have a couple of scheduled items
[2:04:46] both u planning related and public both
[2:04:49] public hearings. One amending the
[2:04:52] appendix o of the or city code by
[2:04:55] altering an existing concept plan for
[2:04:57] the PD53 zone
[2:05:00] 1890 north states the old Allen's
[2:05:02] grocery store there. And then the other
[2:05:06] public hearing is to change the zone of
[2:05:10] property, the city owned property at 360
[2:05:12] West, 1500 South from public facilities
[2:05:15] to R12.
[2:05:18] And Teresa is handing out we've received
[2:05:20] some emails from people who are not able
[2:05:24] to attend the meeting
[2:05:27] and
[2:05:28] >> threw themselves.
[2:05:29] >> They they wanted to make sure that we
[2:05:31] had copies of their their comments are.
[2:05:34] And so you should be receiving those.
[2:05:36] Teresa is passing those around right
[2:05:38] now.
[2:05:39] >> So we'll have that public hearing.
[2:05:42] >> Yes,
[2:05:42] >> it's being reszone to R8
[2:05:46] >> from 12 Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry.
[2:05:50] Public facilities and R12 to R8. Thank
[2:05:52] you. Yes. Six acres. We're going to want
[2:05:56] all of it. Um the request is to have it
[2:05:58] all go to R8. Thank you. Thank you for
[2:06:00] clarifying that.
[2:06:02] Then we have our financial items. Um
[2:06:05] it's in the packet turn the time over to
[2:06:08] Bren for city manager items. And then we
[2:06:11] do have a closed door session after. And
[2:06:14] so at that point at the end of the
[2:06:16] meeting and I would need a motion to
[2:06:19] adjourn from our regular council meeting
[2:06:21] and recon to the close floor session to
[2:06:24] discuss pending or reasonably imminent
[2:06:26] litigation, the character or
[2:06:27] professional competence of an individual
[2:06:29] or the purchase or lease of real
[2:06:30] property. So that is our agenda this
[2:06:33] evening. Questions at this point.
[2:06:37] All right.
[2:06:39] Well, you all got 19 minutes to
[2:06:44] do something. [laughter]
[2:06:48] » We need a motion.
[2:06:51] » Yeah. Usually.
[2:06:52] >> Oh, okay.
[2:06:54] >> So, we'll make a motion. We're going to
[2:06:55] be stuck here till
[2:06:58] >> second.
[2:06:58] >> Motion to second. I
[2:07:03] there you make it
[2:13:47] Quinn, we've switched rooms. Can you
[2:13:49] hear us, Quinn?
[2:13:54] » I can hear you. Thank you.
[2:13:56] >> Okay, excellent. We've got connection.
[2:26:59] evening to um the ORM city council
[2:27:02] meeting 6 o'clock and we'll go ahead and
[2:27:05] call the meeting to order. Um we have
[2:27:09] our invocation inspirational thought
[2:27:11] will be given by Brad Sorenson and our
[2:27:14] pledge of allegiance will be led by
[2:27:15] Michelle Sorenson who is a member of the
[2:27:19] Tempenogus School District board.
[2:27:28] Our Father in heaven, we are so grateful
[2:27:29] to be gathered here this evening. We are
[2:27:31] thankful for this country and the
[2:27:33] freedoms that it offers us and the
[2:27:35] opportunity we have to celebrate those
[2:27:38] especially at this time of year. We're
[2:27:40] thankful for those who have volunteered
[2:27:42] to serve and to lead in our community.
[2:27:45] We're grateful especially for our first
[2:27:47] responders and pray that they might be
[2:27:49] watched over and protected in their
[2:27:50] efforts.
[2:27:52] Father, we pray that thy spirit might
[2:27:53] accompany us this evening that uh that
[2:27:56] this council might be blessed with
[2:27:58] wisdom and integrity and discernment
[2:28:01] uh as they consider the matters before
[2:28:03] them this evening.
[2:28:06] We're grateful for all that we have. We
[2:28:08] pray for thy blessings on our community
[2:28:10] and all those who reside here. And these
[2:28:12] things we ask in the name of thy son
[2:28:14] Jesus Christ. Amen.
[2:28:20] Please stand.
[2:28:26] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[2:28:30] United States of America and to the
[2:28:33] republic for which it stands, one nation
[2:28:36] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[2:28:40] justice for all.
[2:28:49] right. Thank you for for the prayer
[2:28:53] and for the pledge of allegiance.
[2:28:56] We have three items under the mayor's
[2:28:58] report. Next items will be a
[2:29:01] presentation on the ORMFest followup and
[2:29:03] I'll turn the time over to Kenise
[2:29:04] Whitaker, our events manager.
[2:29:25] I also have Sydney Wong Bailey with me
[2:29:29] as well as Cammy Burgess from our events
[2:29:32] commission.
[2:29:34] We're excited to be able to present to
[2:29:37] you on ORMFest and feel really grateful
[2:29:39] for all of the time and effort that was
[2:29:41] put in by our events commission as well
[2:29:44] as ORM staff to be able to pull off a
[2:29:47] really successful and fun Ormfest this
[2:29:50] year.
[2:29:52] As you know, we've been celebrating
[2:29:53] America 250 this year, and our Orumfest
[2:29:57] was laced with fun activities
[2:30:00] culminating this celebration of America
[2:30:03] 250.
[2:30:09] We surveyed residents of ORM and these
[2:30:13] are the results from the survey of the
[2:30:15] favorite activities and ones that we
[2:30:17] should repeat in the future. And you
[2:30:20] guys can see they're the the top 10 in
[2:30:23] order.
[2:30:26] Okay. Fireworks number one, grand parade
[2:30:29] number two, drone show, three, food and
[2:30:32] vendors four, animal exhibits, five
[2:30:35] boutique, six, carnival, seven,
[2:30:37] concerts, eight, children's crafts, and
[2:30:40] then number 10 at competitions.
[2:30:47] Okay, so we just wanted to highlight a
[2:30:49] couple of the events at Warmfest. Not
[2:30:51] everything because there's there's a
[2:30:53] lot, but we'll start with the car show,
[2:30:55] which is always our kickoff event. This
[2:30:57] was rated 4.75 stars. That is from the
[2:31:00] ORMFest survey. So, you know, it was out
[2:31:04] of five, too, not out [laughter] of 10.
[2:31:06] Um, and we'll, you know, we're grateful
[2:31:09] for the input of everybody that
[2:31:11] submitted their feedback. And so this
[2:31:14] event had 238 amazing cars. As you can
[2:31:17] see, that's a drone um shot and it was
[2:31:20] very full and so much fun. Um this is
[2:31:24] like a benefit car show. We've done
[2:31:26] that. Um and we'll talk a little bit
[2:31:27] more about that later, but we were able
[2:31:29] to raise $9,236.90
[2:31:32] for the American Legion. Um and then we
[2:31:35] had just under 6,000 attendees there and
[2:31:38] it was a great night. We're super
[2:31:39] grateful also for Walker Sanderson. um
[2:31:43] they help us so much with this event and
[2:31:46] for their support towards American
[2:31:47] Legion and it was a great kickoff.
[2:31:55] Okay, next we had our pool party on
[2:31:57] Tuesday and it is rated by the public
[2:32:00] 4.77 stars. There's a little quote on
[2:32:03] here that came from that survey saying
[2:32:06] that the pool party is always a slam
[2:32:08] dunk. There were 698 attendees, free ice
[2:32:12] cream, dancing, prizes. You can see the
[2:32:14] royalty got really involved here. It was
[2:32:16] a really fantastic evening and um you
[2:32:21] can tell everyone had such a great time.
[2:32:27] Um Ormfest Orchard Jam was rated 4.73
[2:32:30] stars. This had disco
[2:32:34] um what do you call karaoke dance? Yeah,
[2:32:37] disco silent dance, a children's farmers
[2:32:40] market, and a foam party. This was a
[2:32:43] huge hit as well. People are return
[2:32:45] attendees for this with just under
[2:32:47] 2,000.
[2:32:52] All righty. So, um the carnival days of
[2:32:55] course and stage entertainment that is
[2:32:57] always a big hit. Um 3.88 stars for the
[2:33:02] carnival. Um but we did have 82,400
[2:33:06] attendees overall in the park that week.
[2:33:08] So that's obviously a huge number. We
[2:33:10] had several um stage entertainments
[2:33:13] throughout the week. A lot of talented
[2:33:14] performers, a lot of um comp we did a
[2:33:18] hot dog eating competition as always and
[2:33:21] we had our 10th annual ORM's Got Talent
[2:33:23] where we featured a lot of talented
[2:33:25] people in Oram and it was a very fun
[2:33:28] week and successful.
[2:33:33] We had a new event this year that was
[2:33:36] run by our ORM fire department and they
[2:33:38] did a fun run where they had invited and
[2:33:41] participants to run up and down the
[2:33:44] parade route. There were 112
[2:33:46] participants which we're really pr proud
[2:33:48] about for this first year. They raised
[2:33:50] over $2,000 for the ORMS um fire
[2:33:55] department's PPFO to restore the engine
[2:33:58] number one and other charitable um
[2:34:01] efforts that the PPFO does for our
[2:34:04] community. Uh the grand parade and
[2:34:07] fireworks and drone shows are always a
[2:34:09] hit. We had the drone show that rated
[2:34:12] 4.87
[2:34:14] and I'm thinking whoever didn't rate it
[2:34:16] five stars was not there. [laughter]
[2:34:19] It was amazing. And the fireworks show
[2:34:22] is also at the top of the charts. Um the
[2:34:25] parade is 4.12 stars and we had 85
[2:34:29] entries. We had a lot of marching bands
[2:34:32] and extra fun things this year. Um
[2:34:35] crowds and and finding the right seats
[2:34:38] and candy fighting are always among the
[2:34:42] things that we can improve on. U but we
[2:34:44] overall feel really pleased with a
[2:34:47] successful event.
[2:34:50] And I think that's it. So, we just
[2:34:51] wanted to yeah shout out everybody. We
[2:34:54] have a awesome team and we're grateful
[2:34:56] for all of you for all of your support
[2:34:58] during that week.
[2:35:01] >> Thank you. Have you caught up on your
[2:35:02] sleep
[2:35:03] >> by now? Yes.
[2:35:04] >> By now. It's been a little over a month.
[2:35:06] Okay. Council, any questions or
[2:35:08] comments?
[2:35:11] >> Okay. Oh, okay. Say thank you to all of
[2:35:16] you and the events commission. They put
[2:35:18] in so much hard work to make ORMFest
[2:35:20] happen and it was a blast. You guys do a
[2:35:22] great job and I had a great time
[2:35:24] participating in it. So, thank you for
[2:35:26] all of your hard work and for the events
[2:35:28] commission. Thank you.
[2:35:31] >> Yes, thank you. It was it was wonderful.
[2:35:33] It was really a lot of fun. So, right.
[2:35:36] Thanks. And I guess you Oh, Council
[2:35:38] Member Gail.
[2:35:39] >> I just wanted to say thank you again.
[2:35:40] You guys do such a good job. And not
[2:35:42] just you, but all of the staff. I mean,
[2:35:43] they're working 12, 18 hour days, you
[2:35:45] know, working with the public, working
[2:35:46] with our our facilities. Um, and when
[2:35:49] it's all over, we go to that fireworks
[2:35:50] show and we think how great it is and we
[2:35:52] all go home and at 6:00 the next
[2:35:54] morning, you guys are there cleaning up.
[2:35:55] So, just props to you and thank you.
[2:36:00] Right. Thank you. And you looks like
[2:36:02] you've got the next item as well. So, we
[2:36:04] have a presentation, our car show
[2:36:07] fundraiser for the American Legion. So,
[2:36:10] um, Kenise will have you continue.
[2:36:16] » We just want to invite the American
[2:36:18] Legion representatives up here. Um, we
[2:36:21] have Rodney Gardner and Kelly Kilpac who
[2:36:23] will be um, receiving the check for us.
[2:36:26] We're excited to present it to them and
[2:36:29] um, yeah, we'll just have them join us.
[2:36:40] Oh, did we come?
[2:36:43] » Oh, there's a Oh, there's unflattering
[2:36:46] picture of me.
[2:36:48] Turn that unflattering picture on.
[2:36:56] » We don't need that for posterity. this
[2:36:58] picture
[2:37:00] there.
[2:37:10] » All right, here we go. One, two, three.
[2:37:14] >> All right. Thanks.
[2:37:16] >> Congratulations.
[2:37:26] Thank you.
[2:37:29] » All right. Thank you and
[2:37:30] congratulations.
[2:37:33] The next item is a presentation on
[2:37:36] events safety and Lieutenant Blake Fen
[2:37:39] from our ORM Police Department will be
[2:37:41] the presenter.
[2:37:43] [sighs and gasps]
[2:37:53] » You want to play it first? You
[2:37:54] >> want to do that first? Yeah, let's play
[2:37:55] it first.
[2:37:56] >> That's what I hope.
[2:37:57] >> You might not know know about Warren
[2:37:59] Fest is that planning that happens
[2:38:02] between all the different departments,
[2:38:04] especially with the police department,
[2:38:06] happens months and months and months
[2:38:07] before the event. And we're so grateful
[2:38:10] for the work the police department does
[2:38:12] to make this event safe and fun and
[2:38:15] friendly for everyone.
[2:38:16] >> Anybody want a ball? Yeah. Sweet. We got
[2:38:18] some stickers and bookmarks, too, if you
[2:38:20] want. Swim team. Is that what it is?
[2:38:23] Awesome. Very cool.
[2:38:26] >> So, in order to put together an event
[2:38:28] like Bormfest, it takes an entire team.
[2:38:31] Got a whole board of people that work
[2:38:34] all year long to make this come
[2:38:36] together. On the police side, we
[2:38:39] schedule overtime for the park. Have
[2:38:42] multiple officers in the park uh at all
[2:38:44] hours making sure everyone's safe and
[2:38:47] having a good time.
[2:38:48] >> Rock, paper, scissors. Who wins?
[2:38:52] All right, there you go.
[2:38:54] >> True champion. Right now, morning time,
[2:38:57] we have about seven officers working.
[2:38:59] The afternoon when things start to get
[2:39:01] more busy, we'll have 10 to 12 officers
[2:39:04] in the park. Our number one priority is
[2:39:07] everybody's safety. Favorite thing about
[2:39:09] Wormfest is honestly the community
[2:39:12] engagement. It's super fun to just
[2:39:14] interact with the kids and the people
[2:39:16] and just have fun with them. My least
[2:39:19] favorite thing is wearing this uniform
[2:39:22] and just sweating. Oh, I'm sorry.
[2:39:32] » I talk from this one.
[2:39:34] I won't fit in those chairs.
[2:39:37] I'm going to give public speaking a
[2:39:39] one-star review. Thanks, Chief.
[2:39:42] [laughter]
[2:39:44] Uh, so yeah, I was asked to just kind of
[2:39:46] go over event security. Um every event
[2:39:49] in norm is evaluated from a safety
[2:39:51] perspective. We want to provide a safe
[2:39:53] environment for everyone to enjoy the
[2:39:55] event. Um events are evaluated by their
[2:39:58] location, the type of event, uh the
[2:40:00] typical number of attendees from years
[2:40:02] prior. Um the priorities and logistical
[2:40:05] needs are then brought up to the plan
[2:40:08] brought up through the planning process
[2:40:10] and sometimes the planning process can
[2:40:12] begin months in advance like for
[2:40:13] Oramfest or National Night Out. Uh
[2:40:16] sometimes it's a few days in advance if
[2:40:18] we if we're we have a smaller event. Um
[2:40:21] day-to-day in police work, we manage
[2:40:23] crime scenes and events as they occur.
[2:40:26] So advanced notice is always a welcome uh notice. Uh smaller events we
[2:40:33] can usually staff with a handful of
[2:40:34] officers. That got really loud, Pete.
[2:40:38] Uh smaller events we can usually staff
[2:40:40] with a handful of officers.
[2:40:42] uh the extra police presence is usually
[2:40:44] sufficient to meet those needs. Um the
[2:40:46] larger events are a bit more
[2:40:48] complicated. Uh with these events, um
[2:40:51] there's usually a board of personnel
[2:40:54] like I noted in that video that uh
[2:40:57] include
[2:40:58] Kenise and Sydney, their whole team, um
[2:41:02] police, fire, our emergency services,
[2:41:05] parks, um and just I mean everybody from
[2:41:07] the city. It's it's a joint effort to
[2:41:09] make it all come together.
[2:41:12] Typically for uh most event most events
[2:41:15] the question is usually how many
[2:41:17] officers are adequate. Um for Ormfest
[2:41:21] every employee is used. We with very few
[2:41:25] exceptions. Um we have assignments
[2:41:27] throughout the week especially Saturday
[2:41:30] with the parade and the park events
[2:41:32] going on. Um officers are both needed as
[2:41:36] a visible presence and and uh officers
[2:41:39] that are out of sight for contingency
[2:41:41] scenarios scenarios.
[2:41:46] Uh when we put on a big event, there's a
[2:41:49] lot of questions that we ask uh in
[2:41:51] regards to the action plan. Do we need
[2:41:54] drones? Do we need camera trailers? Uh
[2:41:57] what kind of security do we need inside
[2:41:59] the park or inside the event? Outside the event. um the coverage of
[2:42:05] overtime with signup sheets uh for
[2:42:08] Wormfest. We staff that park 24 hours a
[2:42:11] day. We have two officers at night uh on
[2:42:14] a graveyard shift just to make sure the
[2:42:17] vendor's items are safe, the food trucks
[2:42:19] are safe, the the carnival stuff is
[2:42:20] safe, and nobody's in there vandalizing
[2:42:22] anything. Uh we have uh we go over
[2:42:25] protocols for lost children, lost
[2:42:27] property. Um, we incorporate crossing
[2:42:29] guards to help people navigate the
[2:42:31] streets safely because there's a lot of traffic and a lot of a lot of
[2:42:35] pedestrians around that area.
[2:42:38] Um, a logistical improvement that we're
[2:42:41] looking at for next year, next year's
[2:42:43] Orumfest, and yes, it's already in the
[2:42:45] process in my mind of getting going for
[2:42:48] 2027 is uh our events are growing so
[2:42:51] much and we're adding things. uh just
[2:42:54] having a better command presence in
[2:42:56] regards to someone in command over the
[2:42:59] park specifically, the parade
[2:43:01] specifically, and uh just allowing a
[2:43:05] better span and control of of all of our
[2:43:08] resources. Um there's a lot of a lot of
[2:43:11] effort and time that's put into making
[2:43:13] ORM events enjoyable and safe. And as I
[2:43:16] noted, we're we're already planning
[2:43:18] ahead for for several events. and
[2:43:20] Warmfest 2027 is is on our mind. So with
[2:43:25] that, that's all I got.
[2:43:28] >> Right. Thank you. Any questions,
[2:43:31] council? Thank you for that. I
[2:43:34] appreciate what you and the and the
[2:43:36] other officers do. That's a lot of time when when we're on
[2:43:41] that parade route. Every intersection
[2:43:43] has either got a an officer or a
[2:43:45] volunteer or somebody there and then in
[2:43:47] the park. So, thank you for all your
[2:43:49] work. Council member Mil, did you hear
[2:43:50] the comment?
[2:43:51] >> Yeah, I just wanted to say um you know,
[2:43:53] kudos to finding the lost child cuz that
[2:43:56] family, I talked to a couple of them and
[2:43:59] finding the stolen diaper bag, you know,
[2:44:02] all of these unfortunate things
[2:44:04] sometimes happen and you guys were
[2:44:06] there. You were delivering. You were
[2:44:08] comforting um and protecting. So, thank
[2:44:11] you for all of that, the compassion side
[2:44:14] and the protection side. You do such a
[2:44:16] great job.
[2:44:16] >> Not a problem. We're 100% on lost kids.
[2:44:18] So, let's keep that streak going. We
[2:44:20] didn't get all the property uh back, but
[2:44:22] it's uh it's been booked and waiting for
[2:44:24] somebody to come and claim it. So,
[2:44:27] >> all right. Thank you. Um Council Member
[2:44:29] Lamson,
[2:44:30] >> just also just to echo a quick thank
[2:44:32] you. Um you know, honestly, as I look
[2:44:35] back over these events, I don't think
[2:44:38] there's ever been a time where I've ever
[2:44:39] felt unsafe
[2:44:41] because you're there. And um I I was
[2:44:45] mentioning in our committee meeting, our
[2:44:46] follow-up meeting, that one of my
[2:44:48] favorite memories of this year's
[2:44:50] Oramfest was kind of later in the
[2:44:53] evening when things had kind of calmed
[2:44:55] down, but the carnival where the
[2:44:57] teenagers were was bumping. I mean, it
[2:44:59] was just I I there were that place was
[2:45:02] wallto-wall
[2:45:04] kids, teenagers,
[2:45:06] >> and the the
[2:45:09] just the vibe of that whole gathering of
[2:45:12] young people uh was amazing to just walk
[2:45:16] through. Not that you would ever not
[2:45:17] feel safe with them, but I think it says
[2:45:20] a lot about you uh and about the
[2:45:24] citizens of ORM. And you know, these are
[2:45:26] good kids out having good, clean fun,
[2:45:28] but um I I know there are a lot of
[2:45:30] places where you wouldn't feel safe
[2:45:32] being in a situation like that. And it
[2:45:35] wasn't even a hint of a concern or a
[2:45:37] worry. Um so, thank you. And uh we just
[2:45:41] appreciate all that you do to to keep us
[2:45:43] safe.
[2:45:43] >> Problem. It's a team effort. Appreciate
[2:45:45] it.
[2:45:46] >> Right. Thank you.
[2:45:48] >> All right. Before we go to personal
[2:45:50] appearances, I neglected to acknowledge
[2:45:52] that council Oh, let's do this. Yes.
[2:45:57] Thank you. [laughter]
[2:46:00] I neglected to mention that council
[2:46:02] member Quinn Mikum is joining us online.
[2:46:05] So, are you council member Mikum? Are
[2:46:07] you there?
[2:46:08] >> I am there. Thank you.
[2:46:10] >> All right. He is there. [gasps] All
[2:46:12] right. We're glad to have you here.
[2:46:15] Okay. We now have time for Oh. Excuse
[2:46:18] me. Personal appearances. Time has been
[2:46:21] set aside for the public to express
[2:46:22] their ideas, concerns, and comments on
[2:46:25] items not scheduled as public hearings
[2:46:27] on the agenda.
[2:46:29] Those wishing to speak will have signed
[2:46:31] up ahead of time. And
[2:46:35] those wishing to speak are also
[2:46:37] encouraged to show respect for those who
[2:46:39] serve the city. Comment should focus on
[2:46:41] issues concerning the city. So, looking
[2:46:44] at the number of people we have, [gasps]
[2:46:48] I think we can go ahead and um if you
[2:46:50] could limit your comments to 3 minutes
[2:46:52] or less,
[2:46:54] uh we've got we got our time.
[2:46:58] We have a timer now. If you haven't been
[2:47:00] here for a bit, we have a clock that
[2:47:04] comes up and we'll remind you of of
[2:47:07] that. So, we're going to go ahead and
[2:47:10] get started. And so our first uh
[2:47:13] resident who would like to to um
[2:47:16] participate in personal appearances is
[2:47:18] Aaron Larson. Welcome. And next will be
[2:47:21] Lisa Leser.
[2:47:23] [gasps] I know you're short on time, so
[2:47:24] I'll get to it. So last week I actually
[2:47:27] attended a national conference where a
[2:47:28] keynote speaker discovered discussed the
[2:47:31] Harvard Baylor research on human
[2:47:33] flourishing. Flourishing means more than
[2:47:35] simply avoiding problems. It means
[2:47:37] creating the relationships,
[2:47:38] institutions, freedoms, and conditions
[2:47:42] that allow people and communities to
[2:47:44] thrive. One of the central dimensions is
[2:47:47] financial and material stability. We
[2:47:50] have a housing affordability crisis in
[2:47:51] ORM. Councilwoman Millet has mentioned
[2:47:54] more than once how she wishes her
[2:47:56] daughter could afford to live in ORM
[2:47:57] instead of Springville. In the next
[2:47:59] couple of weeks, you'll be voting on a
[2:48:02] detached ADU ordinance. Right now, the
[2:48:04] ordinance is written in a way that
[2:48:06] almost 75% of ORM will be excluded from
[2:48:09] being part of the solution. So, I'd
[2:48:12] encourage maximum flexibility so that
[2:48:13] all ORM homeowners can be part of the
[2:48:16] solution. Instead of waiting for the
[2:48:19] government to sol to solve the
[2:48:20] affordability crisis for my family, I
[2:48:22] chose to build a multigenerational home.
[2:48:25] The home that I learned through a
[2:48:27] grandma request prompted this council to
[2:48:30] pass Orm's first home building ordinance
[2:48:32] that limits freedom in nearly 20 years.
[2:48:36] Tonight, in your closed door uh
[2:48:38] litigation session, Mr. Earl will likely
[2:48:40] update you on my petition in the fourth
[2:48:43] district court challenging that
[2:48:44] ordinance. As you listen as you listen
[2:48:47] to him, I'd ask you to weigh three
[2:48:49] things.
[2:48:50] First, Utah law expressly protects roof
[2:48:54] pitch as a residential building design
[2:48:56] element that cities may not regulate.
[2:48:59] Yet, ORM's ordinance uses roof pitch as
[2:49:02] the trigger that determines how tall a
[2:49:04] homeowner may build. Second, for over a
[2:49:07] 100red years, the Utah Supreme Court has
[2:49:09] consistently held that government may
[2:49:11] not do indirectly what the law forbids
[2:49:14] it from doing directly. government may
[2:49:18] not do indirectly what the law forbids
[2:49:20] it from doing directly. Third, the
[2:49:23] legislature that I've been in contact
[2:49:25] with has been clear. If the city
[2:49:27] prevails on a technicality, the
[2:49:29] legislature convenes in January and a
[2:49:32] three-word amendment directly or
[2:49:34] indirectly will then make the lawsuit
[2:49:37] moot and a complete waste of ORM
[2:49:39] taxpayers money. So, the real issue is
[2:49:41] lost opportunity cost. The city has
[2:49:44] hired outside council and has already
[2:49:46] expended a significant amount of tax
[2:49:48] dollars and stack and tax tax dollars
[2:49:51] and staff time over one
[2:49:55] multigenerational home. One
[2:49:57] [clears throat] that I am building for
[2:49:59] my family with my own two hands. Every
[2:50:02] one of those tax dollars and hours is a
[2:50:04] dollar and an hour not spent putting the
[2:50:07] Harvard's flourishing research to work
[2:50:08] in ORM. I have intentionally not served
[2:50:12] the city with a suit to give the city's
[2:50:14] lawyers time to show me that the Utah
[2:50:17] courts have allowed other cities to
[2:50:18] ignore the intent of the state law and
[2:50:20] to do indirectly what the city is
[2:50:23] prohibited from doing directly. So far,
[2:50:25] they've come up with nothing. As a
[2:50:27] taxpayer, I'm asking you to direct the
[2:50:29] city to amend the ordinance so that it
[2:50:31] does not go against state law and to do
[2:50:33] this before I serve the city and our tax
[2:50:36] dollars get used to pay for outside
[2:50:38] counsel. This will allow you to redirect
[2:50:40] these resources towards more towards
[2:50:43] making ORM not just family city USA but
[2:50:46] family city USA where everyone
[2:50:48] flourishes. So thank you.
[2:50:52] >> Thank you.
[2:50:55] » All right Lisa Lasser and then after
[2:50:58] Miss Leser we have Barry Flint.
[2:51:03] » Hi. I've spoken before so I will be
[2:51:06] short tonight. Our numbers of children
[2:51:08] are shrinking in our churches and our
[2:51:10] schools because normal turnover in
[2:51:12] affordable housing is going to vacation
[2:51:15] rentals. Within two blocks of my home
[2:51:18] are seven short-term rentals. Those are
[2:51:21] places I could have neighbors and
[2:51:23] friends, but I do not.
[2:51:25] Homes are for residents, not for weekend
[2:51:28] visitors. Vacationers get the keys and
[2:51:31] locals get the boot.
[2:51:33] Please, please do not open the
[2:51:36] floodgates in our city to short-term
[2:51:37] rentals because if you do, you won't be
[2:51:40] able to close that those gates again.
[2:51:43] Thank you.
[2:51:44] >> Thank you.
[2:51:47] >> Hey, Barry Flint and after Mr. Flint,
[2:51:50] Jordan Coway.
[2:51:55] » Okay, I'm just going to read from my
[2:51:57] notes so I don't
[2:51:58] >> know I don't have much time. So, uh, my
[2:52:01] name is Barry Flint, live in Orm. I've
[2:52:03] moved here alone from North Carolina 32
[2:52:06] years ago. Never been out here. Just
[2:52:08] decided want to get out here. Supposed
[2:52:11] to be here out here for a year. That was
[2:52:14] 32 years ago, never left. Um the I fell
[2:52:19] in love with not just with the the
[2:52:21] beauty and the outdoor recreation but
[2:52:23] also the people because they were so
[2:52:24] upset accepting of me especially with me
[2:52:27] knowing no one out here when I moved. U
[2:52:30] just I want to state that I do not own
[2:52:32] an Airbnb. I'm not planning on buying
[2:52:34] one and I have no financial interest in
[2:52:36] them. I've traveled for work for Mark
[2:52:39] for up to the last year all over the
[2:52:45] country. Uh we were staying our group
[2:52:48] was staying in Airbnbs of we had
[2:52:51] anywhere from 5 to 15 people in Airbnb.
[2:52:55] Uh it was for us it was a home away from
[2:52:57] home. U we away from our families for
[2:53:01] usually weeks or sometimes months at a
[2:53:02] time. Uh we would come back from a long
[2:53:06] day, fix dinner center and have long
[2:53:09] conversations about the day and how it
[2:53:10] went and help support each other. Uh we
[2:53:13] were told by our bosses that if we
[2:53:15] didn't take care of these places and
[2:53:16] respected the neighbors, then they would
[2:53:19] no longer do this for us. We never had
[2:53:21] any issues. We were only there at night
[2:53:23] and on Sundays after working long days
[2:53:26] off six days a week. I've also stayed in
[2:53:28] a couple in Orum a couple years ago when
[2:53:31] I temporarily was staying down in St.
[2:53:34] George. Had to finish up some work here
[2:53:35] and there was a lapse somewhere where I
[2:53:37] was staying. So I stay there's no way I
[2:53:40] could afford a hotel for 3 weeks. Uh so
[2:53:43] I ended up staying in an Airbnb, renting
[2:53:45] a room in a couple different places in
[2:53:46] Orum. It was awesome. Everybody was
[2:53:48] really cool, nice, friendly, respectful.
[2:53:51] U when families come to visit from out
[2:53:54] of town, Airbnbs are the perfect
[2:53:56] solution. My girlfriend's family and I
[2:53:58] have used them all over. Uh, from what I
[2:54:01] understand, they are being considered to
[2:54:03] no longer be approved here. I've heard
[2:54:07] complaints on social media, but nothing
[2:54:09] specific. I've heard fears of them
[2:54:11] driving up house prices, turning our
[2:54:13] neighborhoods into Airbnbs, and
[2:54:15] eliminate families. I understand these
[2:54:17] fears, and there is a way to resolve
[2:54:19] them. Uh, make them legal here like they
[2:54:22] have been to be able to continue use
[2:54:23] them. of the city would have that
[2:54:25] information of taxes would have to be
[2:54:28] paid on the income from them and if
[2:54:30] there are legitimate complaints, it
[2:54:32] would make it much easier to deal with
[2:54:34] them of the property owner's first
[2:54:36] priority is to make sure the neighbors
[2:54:38] are respected or they could lose their
[2:54:39] business of fear them taking over your
[2:54:42] neighborhood is a fear without facts.
[2:54:44] It's basically impossible to go out and
[2:54:45] buy a home now here and for that purpose
[2:54:48] and actually make any money at all on it
[2:54:51] of and then oh I got a little bit more
[2:54:54] but anyway of the point I'm trying to
[2:54:57] make is that they're very much needed
[2:55:00] here of make them legal without a ton of
[2:55:02] restrictions. It's better for all of us
[2:55:04] and let's be the community that welcomes
[2:55:06] others just like it was when I moved
[2:55:08] here.
[2:55:10] >> Thank you.
[2:55:15] All right. Um, Jordan Coway and then
[2:55:18] after Miss Callaway, we have Shauna
[2:55:20] Steinoff. Can I give these to
[2:55:23] >> Okay, gave it to Teresa.
[2:55:31] » Good evening, mayor and council members.
[2:55:33] My name is Jordan Coway and um I have am
[2:55:36] passing out. It's a petition that is we
[2:55:39] uh have been uh going around and we have
[2:55:42] over 600 people on there that are in
[2:55:44] favor of total prohibition and um as
[2:55:47] well as some very informative oped
[2:55:49] pieces from concerned residents from
[2:55:51] around ORM. Um I'm asking you to protect
[2:55:54] ORM's residential neighborhoods. The
[2:55:57] dictionary defines residential as
[2:55:59] designed for people to live in it. It
[2:56:01] doesn't say design for businesses. It
[2:56:02] doesn't say design for hotels. It simply
[2:56:04] means a place where people make their
[2:56:06] homes. The issue comes down to one
[2:56:08] simple question. Why should short-term
[2:56:10] rentals receive an exception that no
[2:56:12] other business gets? If someone bought a
[2:56:14] single family home and announced that
[2:56:16] they plan to open a restaurant or retail
[2:56:17] store, an auto repair shop, or any other
[2:56:19] business in the middle of a residential
[2:56:21] neighborhood, the city would never allow
[2:56:23] it. We have zoning laws for a reason.
[2:56:25] They separate commercial uses from
[2:56:26] residential ones to protect the people
[2:56:28] who live there. Yet, when someone
[2:56:30] purchases a home with the primary intent
[2:56:31] of operating it as a nightly rental
[2:56:33] business, somehow we're asked to pretend
[2:56:35] it isn't a business. If a property is
[2:56:37] being advertised on booking platforms
[2:56:39] rented nightly to paying customers,
[2:56:41] generating business income, and occupied
[2:56:43] by a revolving door of guests, that is a
[2:56:46] commercial enterprise. Calling it a home
[2:56:48] doesn't change the fact that it's being
[2:56:49] operated as a business. Property rights
[2:56:52] are important, but they've never meant
[2:56:53] someone can ignore zoning laws. Owning a
[2:56:55] home doesn't give someone the right to
[2:56:57] open a hotel, a restaurant, or a retail
[2:56:58] store in a single family neighborhood.
[2:57:00] Why should a short-term rental business
[2:57:02] be treated any differently? Residential
[2:57:04] neighborhoods should be for residents,
[2:57:06] for people who live there, know their
[2:57:08] neighbors, and invest in the community.
[2:57:09] They should not become commercial
[2:57:10] lodging districts, one house at a time.
[2:57:13] I ask you to uphold the the purpose of
[2:57:15] residential zoning, and apply the same
[2:57:17] standard to short-term rental businesses
[2:57:18] that you would apply to every other
[2:57:20] business. If no other commercial
[2:57:22] businesses would be allowed to buy a
[2:57:23] single family home for the purpose of
[2:57:25] operating a business there, short-term
[2:57:26] rentals should not receive a special
[2:57:28] exception. Thank you.
[2:57:31] >> Thank you.
[2:57:33] >> All right, Miss Steinop and after after
[2:57:36] Miss Steinop, we have Tony Crushmer.
[2:57:44] » Welcome.
[2:57:46] >> Thank you.
[2:57:47] I wanted to start by thanking each of
[2:57:49] you for the service that you give to our
[2:57:52] community. My name is Shana and I am a
[2:57:54] resident and a homeowner here in Oram. I
[2:57:57] am an active voter and a contributing
[2:57:59] member of this city. I plan to be a
[2:58:02] resident here long term. As you are
[2:58:05] discussing the potential of reszoning
[2:58:07] our residential neighborhoods to
[2:58:09] legalize short-term re short-term rental
[2:58:12] businesses, I want to share how
[2:58:14] short-term rentals are already
[2:58:17] negatively impacting me and my family.
[2:58:21] Councilman Kilpac, Councilman Mikum, and
[2:58:25] Councilwoman Gail, respectfully, I hope
[2:58:28] that you specifically hear my concerns
[2:58:30] today.
[2:58:32] This year, because of declining
[2:58:33] enrollment, Alpine School District has
[2:58:35] taken away funding for f two full-time
[2:58:38] teachers at our elementary school. My
[2:58:41] child, along with many others, are being
[2:58:43] put into a class with one teacher
[2:58:45] teaching multiple grades grade levels in
[2:58:48] what is being called a split class. To
[2:58:52] add a little context, school funding and
[2:58:55] school allocations are tied directly to
[2:58:57] student enrollment counts. When
[2:58:59] enrollment drops, the school is allotted
[2:59:02] fewer state and district funds.
[2:59:05] This results in fewer teachers the
[2:59:07] school can afford to hire, larger class
[2:59:10] sizes, and even like in our case,
[2:59:13] multiple grade levels sharing one
[2:59:15] teacher to compensate for these loss of
[2:59:17] funds. I took a closer look at numbers
[2:59:20] again today, and you may be just as
[2:59:22] shocked and concerned as I am. According
[2:59:24] to Airbnb and VBO, there are 525
[2:59:29] unique short-term rental dwellings
[2:59:32] within our city.
[2:59:34] The Alpine School District website lists
[2:59:36] 11 elementary schools in Oram. That is
[2:59:39] an average of 48 homes
[2:59:43] per school with a 0% chance of students
[2:59:48] enrolling directly contributing to the
[2:59:51] declining enrollment. This is not
[2:59:54] hypothetical.
[2:59:56] This is actually impacting your
[2:59:57] constituents and short-term rentals
[3:00:00] aren't even legal yet. I recognize
[3:00:03] short-term rentals are not the only
[3:00:05] contributing factor of declining
[3:00:06] enrollment, but they are detrimental
[3:00:09] nonetheless.
[3:00:11] For the sake of our community, how to
[3:00:13] effectively enforce the current policies
[3:00:16] should be the discussions on the table,
[3:00:18] not legalizing them or grandfathering
[3:00:21] them in.
[3:00:23] 525
[3:00:25] homes dedicated to businesses with
[3:00:28] rotating doors, contributing little to
[3:00:31] nothing to our community. This directly
[3:00:34] affects the ORM residents who have
[3:00:37] entrusted you to represent them. I ask
[3:00:41] you to please stand up to protect our
[3:00:43] communities. Thank you.
[3:00:45] >> Thank you.
[3:00:53] » And I hope I said your last name right.
[3:00:54] Is it
[3:00:55] >> Cretmer?
[3:00:56] >> Cretchmer. And then um Kathy Young,
[3:00:59] you're you'll be after Mr. Cretchmer.
[3:01:04] » Hi, I'm Tony Cretchmer. I have been an
[3:01:07] ORM resident for over 30 years. My wife
[3:01:09] has been an ORM resident for over 50
[3:01:11] years. When we first married, we moved
[3:01:14] to my home state of Illinois. And after
[3:01:16] a year and a half, um, we were blessed
[3:01:19] with my daughter actually just 9 months
[3:01:21] and 2 days after we were married. But I
[3:01:24] quickly realized I did not want to raise
[3:01:27] my daughter in the same environment that
[3:01:30] I grew up in it. So we moved and chose
[3:01:33] to live in Oram. We lived in Oram and
[3:01:36] rented for seven years before we bought
[3:01:39] our house back in 1999.
[3:01:43] My oldest daughter married 10 years ago.
[3:01:47] She and her husband went to school at
[3:01:49] Utah State. They rented. They moved down
[3:01:52] to ORM. They rented. They could not find
[3:01:55] a house that they could afford in Orm.
[3:01:58] They ended up buying a townhouse in
[3:02:00] Spanish Fork, living there for 3 years.
[3:02:04] Thank goodness they got enough equity.
[3:02:06] They were able to move back to the city
[3:02:09] where we raised our eight kids.
[3:02:14] My second oldest daughter has been
[3:02:17] married for about
[3:02:19] six years, seven years, six years. She
[3:02:22] has two boys.
[3:02:25] Up until a year ago, five of my six
[3:02:28] grandchildren lived in Orum.
[3:02:31] A year ago,
[3:02:33] my daughter's family had to move to
[3:02:36] Texas because they could not find
[3:02:40] affordable housing in Orum.
[3:02:43] Now, I don't care what anybody says
[3:02:45] about how short-term rentals may or may
[3:02:48] not affect the cost of housing. The fact
[3:02:51] is there's up to over 500 short-term
[3:02:56] rentals. Most of these single dwelling
[3:03:00] family houses that are not on the
[3:03:02] market.
[3:03:04] Guess how many houses are for sale in
[3:03:06] ORM?
[3:03:07] Between 220 and 260.
[3:03:10] Half as much. There are twice as much
[3:03:14] illegal operating short-term rentals in
[3:03:16] ORM as there are houses for sale.
[3:03:22] My daughter's plan is to live in Texas
[3:03:25] for the next five or 10 years and I will
[3:03:28] not see my grandsons often because of
[3:03:32] that. But they're planning on moving
[3:03:33] back here after they've earned the money
[3:03:36] because the cost of housing is so much
[3:03:39] cheaper there. You need to ask
[3:03:41] yourselves
[3:03:43] as you decide whether or not to allow
[3:03:46] short-term rentals. Are you willing to
[3:03:48] give up having your grandkids live in
[3:03:52] our city so that property owners, many
[3:03:56] of which who don't even live here, can
[3:03:59] continue with their short-term rentals.
[3:04:02] Thank you.
[3:04:03] >> Thank you.
[3:04:07] » Right. Um, Miss Young. And then after
[3:04:09] Miss Young Milo O, is that right?
[3:04:14] >> Milo. Oh. Ought. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. I
[3:04:18] probably wrote that wrong.
[3:04:19] >> Thank you.
[3:04:21] >> Anyways, um,
[3:04:23] mayor and council, my name is Kathy
[3:04:25] Young. ORM is Family City USA.
[3:04:30] I love that.
[3:04:32] But your vote on this short-term rental
[3:04:35] ordinance will tell us whether it still
[3:04:37] means anything.
[3:04:39] Ask yourself, do short-term rentals help
[3:04:43] families thrive?
[3:04:45] Um, strangers coming and going every few
[3:04:48] days, nobody knowing who's next door,
[3:04:51] parking problems, noise, constant
[3:04:53] turnover, parents thinking twice about
[3:04:55] whether they should even let their kids
[3:04:58] play in the yard or walk to school. That
[3:05:01] is not a neighborhood.
[3:05:03] That's a hotel district. Families bought
[3:05:06] their homes here because ORM zoning code
[3:05:08] promised them neighbors, not strangers
[3:05:11] coming and going. Warm families and
[3:05:13] homeown homeowners kept their end of the
[3:05:16] deal. Don't re rewrite the rules on them
[3:05:19] now. 20 years from now, nobody will
[3:05:22] remember the short-term rental operators
[3:05:24] who have been pushing this so hard. But
[3:05:27] every family in Oram will live with your
[3:05:29] vote every single day right next door.
[3:05:33] Family city US wasn't a slogan when when
[3:05:36] we bought our homes. It was a promise.
[3:05:39] Vote no and show this city you keep your
[3:05:42] promises. Thank you.
[3:05:44] >> Thank you.
[3:05:46] >> Okay, Mr. A and then Stephen Ael.
[3:05:56] Excuse me. Good evening.
[3:05:59] Um I live near Sleepy Ridge Golf Course.
[3:06:02] I own a home there. I also own a uh town
[3:06:06] home that with long-term rental renters
[3:06:09] in it. Um, in our neighborhood, we've
[3:06:13] experienced several issues with uh STRs
[3:06:16] or or single uh
[3:06:21] um so
[3:06:24] short-term rentals, STRs such as noise,
[3:06:28] parking strains, fast traffic, unknown
[3:06:30] neighbors every few days, and reduced
[3:06:33] social togetherness.
[3:06:35] We also have owner occupied units who
[3:06:37] rent out their basement with
[3:06:39] considerable success.
[3:06:41] In that sense, owner occupied makes all
[3:06:43] the difference. But when you have a
[3:06:45] company or individual who who does not
[3:06:48] even reside in the area or even in the
[3:06:51] country as as I know in my neighborhood,
[3:06:53] there's one owner who's spends most of
[3:06:56] his time outside the country who owns
[3:06:58] six homes uh one of which is short used
[3:07:02] for short-term rentals.
[3:07:05] So when they are that happens, it
[3:07:07] becomes a recipe for disasters or
[3:07:09] problems. For example, the following
[3:07:12] illegal activities have been found to
[3:07:14] use short-term rentals for their
[3:07:17] business according to the FBI, Airbnb,
[3:07:20] VR, Verbbo, etc. Human sex trafficking,
[3:07:24] drug dealing, prostitution, party
[3:07:26] rentals with vandalism, and unauthorized
[3:07:29] subleting.
[3:07:30] This does not mean that short-term
[3:07:32] rentals are involved or the owners are,
[3:07:34] but um it does because it's
[3:07:38] decentralized and p and the private
[3:07:40] nature makes them attractive to c to
[3:07:42] criminals compared to places like hotels
[3:07:45] with more staff and cameras. My point is
[3:07:48] why would we even want to risk bringing
[3:07:50] these illicit activities into the most
[3:07:52] valuable part of our city, our
[3:07:55] residential neighborhoods?
[3:07:58] Also in regards to housing supply and
[3:08:00] affordability pressures per
[3:08:03] affordability [clears throat]
[3:08:04] pressures per a study done by the garden
[3:08:07] gardener institute in Utah County STRs
[3:08:09] and investor ownership ownership reduce
[3:08:13] units available for owner occupants or
[3:08:15] long-term families.
[3:08:17] So certainly long-term families are the
[3:08:19] ideal. Vineyard did not curb their STR
[3:08:23] proliferation or investor convergence
[3:08:25] and they are suffering for that now
[3:08:27] although they've they've tightened
[3:08:29] things up. Provo along with some other
[3:08:31] neighboring cities have much tighter
[3:08:33] restrictions on STRs such as being
[3:08:36] heavily restricted and prohibited in
[3:08:37] residential and agriculture zones and
[3:08:40] generally require owner occupancy with
[3:08:43] commercial mixeduse areas with
[3:08:45] conditional permits. If ORM does not
[3:08:48] tighten up restrictions, then investors,
[3:08:50] operators, and developers will gravitate
[3:08:53] toward a more permissive spot like ORM.
[3:08:56] We did not move to ORM for STRs. We
[3:08:58] moved here because it is a family city.
[3:09:00] Please, we need to work to keep it that
[3:09:03] way. Let's be at least as strict as
[3:09:06] Provo when it um when it comes to STRs.
[3:09:10] Thank you.
[3:09:11] >> Thank you.
[3:09:14] Okay, Mr. Ael. and then Virginia.
[3:09:17] Okay, you'll be up after, Mr. Ashel.
[3:09:21] >> Welcome.
[3:09:22] >> Thank you. Good evening, mayor and
[3:09:23] members of the city council. Thank you
[3:09:25] for your time and your service to our
[3:09:27] community. I'm here tonight because I
[3:09:29] care deeply about Orm and the
[3:09:30] neighborhoods have made this city such a
[3:09:32] wonderful place to raise families. My
[3:09:34] wife and I have lived here since 1979. I
[3:09:36] graduated from Warm High School 1971.
[3:09:39] So, a longtime resident. Our resident
[3:09:41] neighbors were neighborhoods were built
[3:09:43] to be communities, not collections of
[3:09:44] short-term rentals. When homes became
[3:09:46] investment properties used primarily for
[3:09:48] short-term lodgings, the character of a
[3:09:50] neighborhood began to change. Permanent
[3:09:52] neighbors are replaced by a revolving
[3:09:54] door of visitors. I've got it in my
[3:09:56] neighborhood. Becomes harder to build
[3:09:58] relationships, look out for one another,
[3:10:00] and create a sense of community that
[3:10:02] makes neighborhoods safe and welcoming.
[3:10:04] I'm also concerned about housing
[3:10:06] affordability.
[3:10:07] That was a big issue this last election.
[3:10:09] Many residents believe the goal was to
[3:10:11] create more affordable housing for
[3:10:12] people who actually live and work in
[3:10:13] Orm. Yet, every home that becomes a
[3:10:16] short-term rental is one less home
[3:10:17] available for a family, a firsttime home
[3:10:20] buyer, or someone who wants to become
[3:10:22] part of our community. That puts
[3:10:24] additional pressure on housing prices
[3:10:25] and makes home ownership more difficult.
[3:10:29] I asked the council to consider whether
[3:10:30] current policy truly reflects the vision
[3:10:32] of familyfriendly city or has long been
[3:10:35] known as a place where families can put
[3:10:37] down roots. We did raised our children
[3:10:40] here.
[3:10:41] Children can grow up with neighbors they
[3:10:43] know and residents invest in their
[3:10:44] community for the long term. I encourage
[3:10:47] you to strengthen protection for
[3:10:48] residential neighborhoods. Carefully
[3:10:50] limit this expansion of short-term
[3:10:51] rentals and family neighborhoods
[3:10:55] and continue pursuing housing solutions
[3:10:56] that serve permanent residents rather
[3:10:58] than temporary visitors. As you make
[3:11:00] these decisions, I hope you'll remember
[3:11:02] that a neighborhood is more than a
[3:11:04] collection of houses. It's where people
[3:11:06] raise children, care for aging parents,
[3:11:08] build friendships, and invest in the
[3:11:10] future of the city. Please help preserve
[3:11:12] that vision of War. Thank you very much.
[3:11:14] >> Thank you.
[3:11:18] » Virginia. In Virginia, I know I met you.
[3:11:20] I just I'm afraid to I would just
[3:11:23] slaughter your last name. I'm so
[3:11:27] Okay. And then after Virginia, um Becky
[3:11:31] Smith. Welcome.
[3:11:33] >> Thank you. Last time I did this, I think
[3:11:35] I only had two minutes, so this feels
[3:11:38] really luxurious to me.
[3:11:41] Well, regarding short-term rentals, you
[3:11:44] know, I know you've kind of inherited
[3:11:47] this problem of short-term rentals. I
[3:11:49] don't know how it was created. I guess
[3:11:52] somebody at ORM was telling people it
[3:11:54] was okay to have STRs. Um but the fact
[3:11:58] is that um
[3:12:03] they've been illegal um in Oram since
[3:12:07] 2002
[3:12:08] as per Oram city code 22-9-1.
[3:12:14] Um and I I just don't really feel like
[3:12:17] short-term rentals benefit the overall
[3:12:21] citizenry of Oram. uh rather I think
[3:12:26] they benefit a minority of people. Um
[3:12:30] and there's a kind of a a sense of
[3:12:33] commercializing our neighborhoods.
[3:12:36] Um if you put the question of short-term
[3:12:39] rentals to a vote in ORM, I'm sure that
[3:12:43] it wouldn't pass. I mean, the majority
[3:12:46] would not be in favor of legalizing
[3:12:49] short-term rentals.
[3:12:52] And I don't see the logic of creating
[3:12:54] single family residential zones and then
[3:12:58] violating those zones by allowing people
[3:13:01] to run small hotels in those same zones.
[3:13:05] And the small hotels are short-term
[3:13:07] rentals.
[3:13:09] Um a residential zone is designated for
[3:13:13] human habitation rather than uh
[3:13:16] commercial or industrial activities.
[3:13:19] Short-term rentals are commercial
[3:13:22] businesses regardless of whether the
[3:13:24] owners live there or not.
[3:13:28] And there also is a clear link between
[3:13:31] STRs and increased crime rates because
[3:13:34] they disrupt the social fabric of the
[3:13:37] neighborhoods.
[3:13:39] And I think it's ironic that ORUM uh
[3:13:42] might be willing to legalize short-term
[3:13:45] rentals when they have been shown to um
[3:13:49] contribute to rising crime rates. And at
[3:13:53] the same time, they proposed a um tax
[3:13:57] increase because ORM needs two more
[3:13:59] policemen. So that seems kind of
[3:14:01] ironical or ironic to me.
[3:14:05] Um, so I hope everyone understands that
[3:14:08] you can't protect residential
[3:14:11] neighborhoods and still allow short-term
[3:14:14] rentals of any kind.
[3:14:16] And I feel like ORM is kind of
[3:14:18] different. We have these cohesive
[3:14:20] neighborhoods. I just like it to stay
[3:14:23] that way. This might work in San Diego,
[3:14:27] but I don't think it works for Oram. So,
[3:14:30] thank you very much. Thank you.
[3:14:35] Hey, welcome Becky. And after uh Miss
[3:14:38] Smith, we'll have Ethan Stoer.
[3:14:43] I hope I got that right. Welcome.
[3:14:45] >> Thank you. My name is Becky Smith and I
[3:14:47] have lived in ORM for 24 years. I moved
[3:14:51] into my neighborhood. It's a quiet,
[3:14:53] wonderful neighborhood. I love my
[3:14:55] neighbors. I want to tell you the
[3:14:58] experience I've had with a short-term
[3:15:00] rental. About two years ago, a man from
[3:15:04] Texas bought the house right across the
[3:15:06] street from me. Um, as neighbors, he
[3:15:10] told us that this home was going to be a
[3:15:12] vacation home for his family, but his
[3:15:15] real plan was to be was for it to be an
[3:15:19] Airbnb. Um,
[3:15:23] we have had we we have a school, an elementary school right
[3:15:32] across the street from the backyard of
[3:15:33] this home. Um, we have had
[3:15:38] school buses drive up and empty out
[3:15:42] many people. We've had a tour bus drive
[3:15:45] up. We've had um members that have
[3:15:49] rented this place. Um 2:00 in the
[3:15:52] morning, we hear them in the hot tub. Um
[3:15:57] I realize and I agree with the man who
[3:16:01] said it was so nice and welcoming to
[3:16:04] take his family to an Airbnb.
[3:16:07] I take my family to Airbnbs when we go
[3:16:10] on vacation. Um, but there are a lot of
[3:16:14] restrictions in those Airbnbs um about
[3:16:17] noise, about parking, about respecting
[3:16:20] the neighborhood. And that has not been
[3:16:23] my experience with the Airbnb across the
[3:16:25] street from me. Um,
[3:16:28] I feel like
[3:16:30] a person that buys a house that lives
[3:16:34] out of state has a little less respect
[3:16:36] for the quiet neighborhood that we
[3:16:39] enjoy. Um, parking is an issue. Um, at
[3:16:44] this moment there are three 12person
[3:16:48] vans in front of that house right now.
[3:16:51] 36 people in one house. Um, I think as
[3:16:57] you're thinking about some of the
[3:16:59] restrictions and some of the rules that
[3:17:02] will will happen in the Airbnbs, I think
[3:17:05] that's that's something that to
[3:17:07] consider. parking,
[3:17:09] numbers of people, um, and has been
[3:17:13] stated already, noise
[3:17:16] that needs to be restricted.
[3:17:19] Um,
[3:17:21] so that's what I would encourage. I love
[3:17:25] Airbnbs myself,
[3:17:28] but we need to make sure that the rules
[3:17:32] are fair to the neighborhoods, that we
[3:17:35] have neighborhoods that remain quiet and
[3:17:40] safe. Thank you. Thank you.
[3:17:45] All right.
[3:17:50] Welcome.
[3:17:54] Hi, my name is Ethan Staer. I am not
[3:17:56] here to speak on the short-term rentals
[3:17:58] right now. I'm here to speak on Flock
[3:18:00] cameras. Um, and I have a lot to say
[3:18:02] about them, so I will try to go quickly
[3:18:04] because I know I only have 3 minutes.
[3:18:06] For those who are unfamiliar with Flock
[3:18:08] as a company, this is a private company
[3:18:10] that makes contracts with cities to put
[3:18:12] up cameras on different streets to watch
[3:18:15] and register cars as they drive past,
[3:18:17] recording their license plates,
[3:18:19] recording people who may be in the car
[3:18:22] and all of this other information in
[3:18:24] this private database. Now, they often
[3:18:26] partner with police stations to allow
[3:18:28] the police to search this database, but
[3:18:30] these searches do not require a warrant.
[3:18:33] Additionally, these searches barely
[3:18:35] require a reason. There are thousands of
[3:18:38] searches that are logged under the
[3:18:40] reason of test. And the subject of these
[3:18:42] searches can be anyone from maybe
[3:18:45] someone that the police are
[3:18:46] investigating to exes of police um
[3:18:50] officers or people that these officers
[3:18:52] are just personally interested in
[3:18:53] watching. I know that a crowdsourced
[3:18:57] database of flot cameras in Oram has
[3:18:59] found at least 12 already in the city. I
[3:19:02] don't know if there are more. This is a
[3:19:04] crowdsourced system. Flock does not
[3:19:06] disclose where it places cameras, nor
[3:19:07] does the city. And I find this highly
[3:19:09] concerning. Additionally, this database
[3:19:12] is not only open to ORM city officers.
[3:19:15] So even if you trust every officer
[3:19:17] within the city of ORM, do you trust
[3:19:19] every officer in San Diego? Do you trust
[3:19:21] every officer in Houston? Do you trust
[3:19:24] every officer in New York City? Because
[3:19:26] every single police station across the
[3:19:28] country can access the flock database.
[3:19:30] And I find this highly concerning. CEO
[3:19:33] of Flock and people who support Flock
[3:19:35] will say that if you have nothing to
[3:19:36] hide, you have nothing to worry about
[3:19:37] these cameras. I disagree. If I send a
[3:19:41] letter to you, I put it in an envelope.
[3:19:43] Is that because the letter has something
[3:19:44] to hide? Or is it because we have a
[3:19:46] right to privacy? If I send you a
[3:19:48] package, am I forced to put it in a
[3:19:50] see-through and plastic container so
[3:19:51] that everyone knows what I'm mailing
[3:19:52] you? I simply am not required to do
[3:19:55] that. And I don't see why the motion of
[3:19:57] ORM citizens is something that needs to
[3:19:59] be logged by these flock cameras.
[3:20:01] There's even one I noticed across the
[3:20:03] street from the Sarah Theater. This is a
[3:20:06] theater where many families come and
[3:20:08] they bring their children. And I don't
[3:20:10] see any reason that this private
[3:20:12] database needs to record every family
[3:20:14] driving to and from this theater and
[3:20:16] needs to know the motions of everyone
[3:20:18] who visits. I find these block cameras
[3:20:21] not only an insane violation of privacy
[3:20:24] of the citizens of ORM, I also think
[3:20:26] they raise big questions about search
[3:20:28] and seizure rights. Is it legal for them
[3:20:31] to record all of this information and
[3:20:33] then give it to officers without needing
[3:20:35] a warrant? That's just something I think
[3:20:37] I would like all of you to think about.
[3:20:39] Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.
[3:20:44] >> All right, that concludes our our
[3:20:46] personal appearances this evening. Thank
[3:20:48] you to each of you who've come this
[3:20:50] evening to to express your thoughts.
[3:20:54] Right, council, the next item on our
[3:20:56] agenda is our consent item and it's the
[3:20:59] approval of the meeting minutes of June
[3:21:00] 9th, June 15th and the joint meeting
[3:21:03] with Lynen City on but that's a June
[3:21:05] 15th and then on June 23rd, 2026. So I
[3:21:09] would look for a motion
[3:21:11] to on that item.
[3:21:14] >> I move to approve the consent items.
[3:21:17] Right. motion. Is there a second?
[3:21:18] >> Second.
[3:21:19] >> Right. Thank you. Um we'll start with
[3:21:22] Council Member Mikum on voting on that.
[3:21:26] >> I
[3:21:33] >> Right. Motion carries. Thank you.
[3:21:37] All right. Now, it's time for us to go
[3:21:38] to our scheduled items.
[3:21:41] First is a public hearing and it's an
[3:21:43] ordinance amending appendix O of the ORM
[3:21:47] city code by altering the existing
[3:21:48] concept plan for the PD53 zone located
[3:21:52] generally at 1890 North State Street.
[3:21:55] And for those who aren't familiar with
[3:21:56] where that is, that's the Old Allen's
[3:21:58] grocery store in the property around
[3:22:00] there. So, I'll turn the time over to um
[3:22:04] our planning director Jared Hall. Is the
[3:22:06] applicant here this evening? Okay. Well,
[3:22:08] you'll have a chance after after Mr.
[3:22:10] Hall to come up and and speak.
[3:22:14] >> Thank you. Um, as you said, this is an
[3:22:16] amendment of the the text of appendix O.
[3:22:21] We have all these great appendices in
[3:22:22] our in our code. Um, the Neers's North
[3:22:25] Oram is kind of what we called this
[3:22:27] project at 1890 to 1990 North State.
[3:22:30] This was um the PD50 through 53
[3:22:34] uh plan development zone was approved
[3:22:35] just back in 2024 in February. um in the
[3:22:38] original um concept plan. Um I'm going
[3:22:42] to go to this slide to show you
[3:22:44] something. Well, I want to not forget
[3:22:45] that the planning commission recently
[3:22:46] heard this on July 1st. They did
[3:22:48] recommend approval uh of this change to
[3:22:51] the council. Um because it's a little
[3:22:55] bit different. I just want to explain
[3:22:56] really quickly that there are two parts
[3:22:58] to these PD zones so that the public
[3:22:59] understands. I think you guys have seen
[3:23:00] them enough to know how these PD zones
[3:23:02] work, but we want to make sure that
[3:23:03] folks that don't that aren't as familiar
[3:23:05] with it are are aware of how this works.
[3:23:07] In a plan development zone, there are
[3:23:08] two portions. There's a code portion, a
[3:23:10] text portion, and there's a concept plan
[3:23:12] that's always attached to that. And for
[3:23:13] whatever weird reason, we we make them
[3:23:16] they're they're located in different
[3:23:17] parts of ordinance. So, the code part of
[3:23:19] this, the text part has not been
[3:23:21] changed. The only amendment is the
[3:23:23] concept plan being updated. So, that's
[3:23:24] why it's amending appendix O. Just
[3:23:26] wanted to make sure that was
[3:23:27] understandable. Okay. This gives me an
[3:23:29] opportunity to show you though that this
[3:23:30] is the original concept plan that was
[3:23:32] approved that's part of RPGs OO right
[3:23:34] now includes uh all of the same
[3:23:37] properties. We're not we're not adding
[3:23:38] additional property or changing the the
[3:23:40] boundaries of the zone at all. Uh we're
[3:23:42] simply changing a portion right in here
[3:23:44] where there were these planned two two
[3:23:47] um a pair of threetory office buildings
[3:23:50] that will now be replaced in this new
[3:23:52] concept plan. You can see them right
[3:23:54] there by about 31,000 ft² of a home.
[3:23:57] It's called home built. It's a new
[3:23:58] concept in home uh in in homegoods
[3:24:02] stores. Uh that that kind of thing. Uh a
[3:24:05] lot of other things about the plan stay
[3:24:06] basically the same. There's some
[3:24:08] rearrangement of the parking. They were
[3:24:09] able to get actually more parking out of
[3:24:11] the uh out of the new plan. It does make
[3:24:14] a couple of changes though that are are
[3:24:16] um significant or worth noting. It moves
[3:24:19] this building is closer to the backside
[3:24:23] than these two office buildings were.
[3:24:24] Although it is uh less height um overall
[3:24:28] the heights that are allowed in the PD53
[3:24:31] zone again none of that text has
[3:24:32] changed. So this new concept plan all
[3:24:34] conforms to those uh existing parameters
[3:24:37] heights within 100 ft of the residential
[3:24:39] zone are limited. Uh 48 is the overall
[3:24:41] height that's allowed but you have to be
[3:24:43] 35 or less if you're within 100 ft of
[3:24:44] residential. So back here you have this
[3:24:46] birthday caking of the planned uh
[3:24:48] homebuilt building. Uh so back here
[3:24:50] we're just under I think we're at 30 32
[3:24:52] ft just about 32 ft back here. Uh or
[3:24:55] [snorts] actually less than that here.
[3:24:56] 32 ft right here. Uh so it's
[3:24:58] significantly shorter than the office
[3:25:00] buildings, although it is a little bit
[3:25:01] closer. It's got the dock down. Um so
[3:25:03] it's got a submerged dock so you have
[3:25:04] less sound violations, things like that.
[3:25:06] It's required to put up uh fencing like
[3:25:09] we would a masonry fence to to buffer
[3:25:11] the [snorts] residential as well. Those
[3:25:12] are all things that are part of it. Uh
[3:25:15] part of that text that hasn't been
[3:25:16] changed and the new plan does conform to
[3:25:18] all those uh requirements. Um as we
[3:25:21] said, the parking has gone up just a
[3:25:22] little bit. We're able to provide on
[3:25:24] this new plan 277 spaces. Uh there was
[3:25:27] some question about whether that was was
[3:25:29] accurate or not in the planning
[3:25:30] commission hearing. So I I vowed to
[3:25:32] count those. I recounted them. It
[3:25:34] actually came up with 279, but my eyes
[3:25:36] were a little crosseyed by the time I
[3:25:37] got to that number. So we're going to
[3:25:40] take 277, leave it. I have not updated
[3:25:42] that number, but there are a lot of
[3:25:44] parking stalls in there. Um, this the
[3:25:46] parking requirement in PD53 is slightly
[3:25:48] light slightly less than than the C2
[3:25:50] zoning. 250 is our normal number. It's
[3:25:52] 255 in this in this PD zone. Uh, well
[3:25:55] overparked for it shouldn't be an issue.
[3:25:58] Uh, this is just an an image of the of
[3:26:00] the building itself, what it will look
[3:26:01] like. We have state street standards for
[3:26:03] building. You have to have so much glass
[3:26:04] etc. It's uh it's got a lot of glass for
[3:26:06] the building. A lot of a lot of sort of
[3:26:08] relation to the streets. It's a nice
[3:26:09] building with good roof lines. Um should
[3:26:11] look good there. Um so we have uh one
[3:26:15] more thing to show you just well if you
[3:26:17] have any questions that the only thing
[3:26:18] again that's significantly changing is
[3:26:20] this building goes away the Allen's
[3:26:22] grocery store. So um if if if that's um
[3:26:27] that's one of the the outcomes that will
[3:26:29] be part of this. It won't be two office
[3:26:30] buildings anymore. There will be space
[3:26:31] for more retail up here and uh out
[3:26:34] parcel for some restaurant etc. But then
[3:26:37] this would be home good or a homegoods
[3:26:38] store instead of the threetory office
[3:26:41] building pairs. Any questions about this
[3:26:43] change of the concept plan?
[3:26:45] >> Council, do you have any questions for
[3:26:46] Mr. Hall?
[3:26:47] >> I have one question. As I look at this
[3:26:49] image here, the the building labeled
[3:26:51] 1950.
[3:26:52] >> How does the setbacks against that back
[3:26:54] fence compare to what is now being
[3:26:56] suggested for the new?
[3:26:57] >> They're very close right now. I I don't
[3:26:59] know exactly how much closer they are,
[3:27:00] but they're closer.
[3:27:01] >> So essentially, you're basically just
[3:27:03] replacing this building with a newer
[3:27:04] updated one is the gist of it. That's a way of seeing it. Yeah.
[3:27:07] >> Thank you.
[3:27:09] >> Right. Anyone else? Oh, seeing none,
[3:27:11] I'll invite the applicants to come up if
[3:27:13] you'd like to add anything to what Mr.
[3:27:15] Hall has said. If you come up and
[3:27:16] introduce yourself, appreciate it.
[3:27:24] My name is Dave Vincent. I'm with Neers
[3:27:25] Bakery. We are very excited to redevelop
[3:27:28] this area of the land uh forum. It's uh
[3:27:31] something that I think will help the
[3:27:32] community immensely. Um we've been
[3:27:34] working on trying to get this plan to go
[3:27:36] for the last several years and have
[3:27:38] found that this is a much better option
[3:27:41] um for us to get the project going and
[3:27:43] moving along. We found a great partner
[3:27:45] with Homeuilt um and we're very excited
[3:27:47] to have them be part of the community as
[3:27:49] well. I think one of the big questions
[3:27:50] would be around who homebuilt is and
[3:27:53] what they're trying to accomplish. So if
[3:27:55] that's okay, I'll turn the time over to
[3:27:56] Patrick from Homeuilt so he can explain
[3:27:58] their concept.
[3:28:00] >> Thank you Dave.
[3:28:01] >> Yeah. So, good morning or good evening.
[3:28:04] Uh, my name is Patrick. I'm here on
[3:28:06] behalf of Homebuilt Hardware and Design.
[3:28:08] Um, I know that you had mentioned it's
[3:28:09] kind of a homegoods store. It's more of
[3:28:10] a a hardware and design center. It's a
[3:28:13] hardware store that also has an
[3:28:14] accessible design center that's more
[3:28:16] appropriately priced for um, I'd say
[3:28:19] everyday members versus a high-end uh,
[3:28:21] design center. Homebuilt is the newest
[3:28:23] concept from the Clyde Companies. The
[3:28:25] Cloud Companies is a family-owned
[3:28:26] business um based right here in Oram and
[3:28:28] has been in the area building, you know,
[3:28:31] the state of Utah for the last hundred
[3:28:32] years. This is a project that we've been
[3:28:34] working on for the last 16 months I've
[3:28:37] been a part of it. Um of planning really
[3:28:38] what this could be, what the offering
[3:28:40] would be and how it would meet the needs
[3:28:42] that don't really exist in the market
[3:28:43] right now. Um as it stands in hardware,
[3:28:47] you have big box chains that take an
[3:28:48] hour to get in and out of and rarely you
[3:28:50] find what you're actually looking for.
[3:28:51] or you have really small places that you
[3:28:53] don't necessarily know are they going to
[3:28:54] have what you need. This is looking to
[3:28:56] combine
[3:28:58] um skilled people that can help solve
[3:29:01] your problems while you're shopping with
[3:29:03] an elevated experience. If you think
[3:29:05] about what Trader Joe's did grocery,
[3:29:06] that's what we're looking to do with
[3:29:07] hardware. It's making an elevated
[3:29:09] experience that is really fun to shop
[3:29:11] at. Um I know that we were able to cover
[3:29:14] a lot of the questions that we've heard
[3:29:15] in the past and in some of these
[3:29:17] meetings in the community meeting. Just
[3:29:19] a few other points that in case anyone
[3:29:21] else has these questions. The height of
[3:29:22] the building is 39 ft at the front. It's
[3:29:24] 23 feet at the back. There's a 46 foot
[3:29:27] 45T 6 in sorry uh set back from the back
[3:29:30] which I do believe is further than the
[3:29:31] current Allen's building. Um there would
[3:29:35] be a seven foot masonry wall along with
[3:29:36] the code that we have and lighting we're
[3:29:38] still working on but it has come up from
[3:29:40] the community members and it's something
[3:29:41] we're committed to working on them with
[3:29:42] to make sure that it's addressing any
[3:29:44] concerns they have with you know the
[3:29:47] setbacks being somewhat close to the
[3:29:48] houses behind. Um but this is something
[3:29:51] we're really excited about. We're based
[3:29:52] right here in Oram. This is the first of
[3:29:54] three that we're going to open next year
[3:29:55] ideally with your permission. Um and
[3:29:58] it's really going to be the flagship
[3:29:58] store that we have uh for this home
[3:30:00] build idea.
[3:30:02] >> All right. Thank you. Um, council
[3:30:04] members, do you have any questions?
[3:30:07] >> All right, seeing I
[3:30:08] >> mayor, I have one if it's okay.
[3:30:10] >> Oh, okay. I hear a voice.
[3:30:12] >> Yeah, [laughter] scared me.
[3:30:13] >> Okay, council member Mikum, I apologize.
[3:30:16] >> Yeah, no worries.
[3:30:17] >> Go ahead.
[3:30:19] Um I I know this has come up at planning
[3:30:21] commission and others, but um uh because
[3:30:24] it it is near a residential uh zone.
[3:30:28] Just wondering if you could specify a
[3:30:30] little bit more of what you plan to do
[3:30:32] to mitigate noise and light. I think
[3:30:34] those are two issues that that people uh
[3:30:37] have some remaining concerns about.
[3:30:40] >> Yeah, of course. So for mitigating
[3:30:41] noise, as you mentioned, we have a
[3:30:43] depressed loading dock. We've also put a
[3:30:44] concrete or masonry wall between the
[3:30:46] loading dock and the building so that
[3:30:48] it's going to go into a depressed tunnel
[3:30:51] almost that's going to have a masonry
[3:30:52] wall in addition to another masonry wall
[3:30:54] at the back of the building which will
[3:30:55] really help and um evidence points to a
[3:30:58] bunch of retailers that do this that it
[3:30:59] really helps mitigate noise.
[3:31:01] Additionally, we're going to have an
[3:31:03] indoor area for pickup where if you go
[3:31:04] to Home Depot, trucks are parked
[3:31:06] outside. We're gonna have a drive-thru
[3:31:07] where a garage door opens and we'll load
[3:31:09] your truck for you and then a garage
[3:31:11] door opens on the backside and you drive
[3:31:13] out. So really trying to make sure that
[3:31:15] we are good stewards of the community
[3:31:17] that we're entering and really take into
[3:31:18] consideration how do we minimize noise
[3:31:21] as it comes to lighting. We're open to
[3:31:23] any measures that you all recommend
[3:31:25] whether it's down lighting or cut offs
[3:31:27] in line with the code and that would
[3:31:29] help um satisfy the neighbors that we
[3:31:30] have behind us.
[3:31:33] >> Okay. Thank you. And so I would assume
[3:31:36] that the staff I would we would leave
[3:31:38] that to the our plan our community
[3:31:40] development staff.
[3:31:41] >> It's it's a good it's a good moment to
[3:31:43] insert the thing I forgot to say. I
[3:31:45] never leave you with everything at once.
[3:31:47] I like to
[3:31:47] >> you leave us in suspense. Yes. Thank
[3:31:49] you.
[3:31:50] >> One more. Um this will go if if it's
[3:31:52] approved for the change. This is the
[3:31:54] concept plan, but it has to match a site
[3:31:56] plan that gets approved through the
[3:31:57] planning division for the planning
[3:31:59] commission's process. So things like
[3:32:00] phototric plans and things have to be uh
[3:32:03] part of those submitts. So we we'll use
[3:32:05] cutoff lighting or down directed
[3:32:06] lighting to make sure there's zero bleed
[3:32:08] at property lines and glare and all that
[3:32:09] stuff. Part of that site plan will pull
[3:32:11] up council. Um pull up the concept plan.
[3:32:15] >> Oh,
[3:32:15] >> if you would for the screen. Yeah,
[3:32:18] >> the site. Um
[3:32:19] >> let me get to the big one. There's a big
[3:32:20] version, right? Well, there's that
[3:32:22] version. That's There we go. Probably
[3:32:24] that one. Yeah. Thank you.
[3:32:29] And
[3:32:30] Oh, you don't have any. You just you
[3:32:32] wanted
[3:32:32] >> I just wanted to I thought this is a
[3:32:33] better representation of what we're
[3:32:34] talking about.
[3:32:35] >> Oh, okay. I thought you had a question.
[3:32:36] >> The prior the prior zone and now the new
[3:32:38] one that you're asking for is on the
[3:32:40] right with a different concept.
[3:32:42] >> Thank you.
[3:32:42] >> And one thing I'll note and I should
[3:32:44] probably not offer more information than
[3:32:46] that, but if you see the dotted line
[3:32:47] behind uh the orange building, that is
[3:32:50] the current line of the Allen's
[3:32:51] building. So, it is a bit more I don't
[3:32:53] have the exact number, but it is further
[3:32:55] away.
[3:32:55] >> Yeah.
[3:32:57] >> Great. Thank you. And thank you for
[3:33:00] eliminating that suspense, Mr. Hall.
[3:33:03] [sighs and gasps] It is a public hearing
[3:33:05] and so I would like to open the public
[3:33:06] hearing. If there's anyone who would
[3:33:08] [gasps] like to speak to this item on
[3:33:10] the agenda, I invite you to come forward
[3:33:12] and introduce yourself and you'll have
[3:33:14] up to three minutes.
[3:33:22] Good evening, Council Mayor Mccandas.
[3:33:25] I'm Marian Baxter and I really I was
[3:33:28] unaware of this on the agenda this
[3:33:30] evening. I would like to thank Homebuild
[3:33:34] and the proposal that's coming up for
[3:33:37] light pollution mitigation and noise
[3:33:40] mitigation. What he just described I
[3:33:43] have never really seen other than at
[3:33:46] Harmon's grocery store where you can
[3:33:48] pull through and be loaded your
[3:33:50] groceries loaded. So I'm very grateful
[3:33:52] for that. light pollution is we have
[3:33:55] growth going around a very tight area
[3:33:59] from the mountains to where Utah Lake
[3:34:02] sits. So we get to deal with some
[3:34:05] density issues throughout Utah County
[3:34:07] that are very unique. And with the
[3:34:11] growth of Provo Airport, we literally
[3:34:15] have issues with how do you manage the
[3:34:18] wildlife? We don't want to decimate them
[3:34:20] all. you know the birds, the the
[3:34:24] ecosystems. So everything that deals we are living in a very integrated
[3:34:30] landscape and the light matters and the
[3:34:34] noise matters and the pollution matters
[3:34:36] for even the human beings. [laughter]
[3:34:40] So I also because I had a moment here, I
[3:34:43] did not get here in time to sign up for
[3:34:45] the public comment initially and I would
[3:34:48] like to draw some attention to our
[3:34:50] police officers and the outreach that
[3:34:53] they're doing in public coming to the
[3:34:56] public parks. I was honored to attend
[3:34:58] the Cherry Hill Park gathering and we
[3:35:01] had wild window wind and several of the
[3:35:05] council members and the mayor were there
[3:35:07] and the police officers and we all
[3:35:09] stayed safe even with the elements going
[3:35:12] kind of wild that night. I would like to
[3:35:14] comment on Pete's or Peter's um REIT
[3:35:19] outreach and I did not know until that
[3:35:22] evening that we can send texts to ORM
[3:35:25] city and we're spreading the word and
[3:35:28] I'd like to see a higher profile that
[3:35:31] when you see something a buckled
[3:35:33] sidewalk or a pothole or even a positive
[3:35:37] thing happening you can send a text now.
[3:35:40] Hallelujah. That's a great use of
[3:35:43] technology. So, thank you for being able
[3:35:46] to do a mixed message here. Hope it was
[3:35:48] clear. And um Homebuilt, good luck. I
[3:35:52] hope it goes well.
[3:35:55] >> Thank you.
[3:35:55] There's anyone else who would
[3:35:58] like to speak
[3:36:00] to this? Welcome. And please introduce
[3:36:02] yourself and you'll have up to three
[3:36:04] minutes.
[3:36:06] >> Keith Walker and I live behind this
[3:36:08] property. Um, a couple questions. I just
[3:36:12] share a couple thoughts. It was two
[3:36:13] years and three months ago. He said it
[3:36:15] was in February, but it was for the city
[3:36:17] council in April that we were here for
[3:36:20] this same piece of property. And why are
[3:36:23] we here now again? They walked out happy
[3:36:25] as can be and they went down the road.
[3:36:27] Now we're back again for the same thing.
[3:36:31] The only reason we're here that this is
[3:36:32] going to succeed is because WW Clyde has
[3:36:35] stepped in and been a part of this
[3:36:36] project. As I met with Jiren Hall two
[3:36:40] weeks ago, he was under the impression
[3:36:42] that WW Clyde had purchased this
[3:36:44] property. My understanding and comments
[3:36:47] to them and to home built that is not
[3:36:49] the case. So, we still have the problem
[3:36:51] with neers owning the property that's
[3:36:54] gone on for a long period of time. Uh
[3:36:58] question in the planning meeting that
[3:37:00] they approve the DOT approval on the
[3:37:03] access on State Street. Uh [snorts]
[3:37:08] uh also a question for the the council
[3:37:11] to consider and I know it probably
[3:37:12] doesn't fall into this but two years ago
[3:37:14] the city council made adjustments in
[3:37:17] this property to allow these guys for
[3:37:20] more parking. They needed 347
[3:37:23] parking places originally and now they
[3:37:26] and I know you said this different they
[3:37:28] this is less than it was which is fine
[3:37:30] but they made counselow
[3:37:36] this to go through. It might not apply
[3:37:38] to you but just to think do you want to
[3:37:40] allow those setbacks still to be in in
[3:37:42] place? um
[3:37:46] handicapped on this property there's
[3:37:48] nine on the on the property that's
[3:37:50] presented on the drawing there's nine
[3:37:52] handicap stalls. I don't know what the
[3:37:54] regulation is. I'm not in favor but I
[3:37:56] just question if that's the right
[3:37:57] amount. Uh, the other thing I'd like to
[3:38:00] draw your attention to on this plan is
[3:38:02] on the north end of the plan, on the
[3:38:04] south end of the plan, I'm sorry, on the
[3:38:06] south end of the plan, the one
[3:38:09] drive-thru goes to iDrive property, and
[3:38:11] that's been in existence the whole time.
[3:38:13] It's had to be there. They have
[3:38:16] positioned this restaurant and
[3:38:18] drive-thru in that entrance way to the
[3:38:20] drive to go to North to ID Drive. that
[3:38:23] the part of that restaurant and that
[3:38:25] curb out at the front, that first curb
[3:38:27] with green is in half or better of that
[3:38:30] driveway through. I don't think that's a
[3:38:32] good situation. That's just my thought
[3:38:34] on that to improve it. Uh the other one
[3:38:37] is on the north end of the property.
[3:38:39] They put a drive a drive-thru lane on
[3:38:42] that building on the north on the north
[3:38:44] side of that. The way that looks,
[3:38:46] they've got a place for roughly two
[3:38:49] cars, maybe three at the very most in
[3:38:51] that drive-thru lane. If not, they're
[3:38:54] going to back up into that entrance in
[3:38:55] the property. I don't know what they
[3:38:56] plan on putting there, but I don't think
[3:38:58] a twocar drive up is enough unless it
[3:39:01] was something, you know, a dry cleaner,
[3:39:03] something that was very light. And
[3:39:04] they've talked about that once. So,
[3:39:06] that's another question I have on the
[3:39:07] plan. The other one was, uh, we've
[3:39:10] talked about, uh,
[3:39:12] rodent control. I was told tonight just
[3:39:15] briefly that it was going to be started
[3:39:17] tore down tomorrow and we've asked
[3:39:20] repeatedly for that to happen. I know
[3:39:22] you some of you were involved with Orm
[3:39:24] High School and it was a disaster to the
[3:39:26] neighbors when that tore down and I just
[3:39:28] ask for your encouragement. We're not
[3:39:30] necessarily opposed to it. We're
[3:39:31] grateful for WW Clyde to step in and do
[3:39:35] something with it as the city wants it
[3:39:37] deal. We're still nervous what needers
[3:39:39] will do with the rest of it though.
[3:39:40] Thank you.
[3:39:42] So, question. Um, I'm going
[3:39:46] to ask Well, I'm going to ask Mr. Hall a
[3:39:47] couple questions and then I'm going to
[3:39:48] ask you about rodents. Wasn't just a
[3:39:52] um and so you put the concept plan back
[3:39:55] up. Um I'm curious what uh
[3:40:00] what items on this concept plan um the
[3:40:04] items that were brought up talk they
[3:40:06] talk about the different drive-throughs
[3:40:08] and the number of the parking and some
[3:40:09] of those things will that
[3:40:12] will those be looked at more closely at
[3:40:14] site plan the the things this gentleman
[3:40:16] >> they they can be um site plans the the
[3:40:20] site plan will be reviewed more
[3:40:21] meticulously than the concept plan but
[3:40:23] because we have access to more
[3:40:24] information better uh better civils from the other side, from the developer
[3:40:28] side. However, the concept plan in this
[3:40:31] case is pretty complete. We've looked at
[3:40:34] some of those drive accesses. So, a lot
[3:40:36] of those would stay in the same place.
[3:40:38] Okay.
[3:40:38] >> Um the one question
[3:40:40] >> about and these have been approved
[3:40:42] before by UD do. So, we're we're
[3:40:44] expecting them to to receive their UD do
[3:40:46] permit as part of that process. But
[3:40:48] again, drive-throughs like this exiting,
[3:40:50] if I'm understanding correctly, this is
[3:40:52] the concern is there's not a lot of
[3:40:53] space to stack.
[3:40:55] >> Yeah. there. Yeah, right there.
[3:40:57] >> Um, yeah. So, those we we'll look at
[3:40:59] those for certain. We have
[3:41:01] transportation engineering folks that'll
[3:41:02] look at them.
[3:41:04] >> Okay. We don't want Yeah, because we
[3:41:05] don't want it to back out on into the road.
[3:41:08] >> All right. Thank you. And would you mind
[3:41:10] addressing as you proceed with
[3:41:12] demolition about the how how to uh help
[3:41:16] the neighbors as as there might be some
[3:41:19] current residents in those that building
[3:41:21] that will be looking for a new home?
[3:41:23] >> Yeah. And I I totally understand his
[3:41:24] fear. I've heard about the what he's
[3:41:26] referencing. So Dave and team have been
[3:41:28] in there clearing out that building for
[3:41:30] the last better part of a month, I
[3:41:31] believe, and they have not seen
[3:41:32] anything. I don't want to speak for you,
[3:41:33] but I believe that's correct. Um we're
[3:41:35] working with um Grandma K to tear down
[3:41:38] the building and we'll work with them on
[3:41:39] any remediation efforts if anything is
[3:41:42] seen in the building until it really
[3:41:44] comes. Unfortunately, I don't know
[3:41:46] there's much that we could do until we
[3:41:49] actually see something.
[3:41:50] >> Yeah, that makes sense. But we're
[3:41:52] >> just being in communication with Yeah.
[3:41:54] with him as far as as that. I just
[3:41:57] remember when the when the orchards near
[3:41:59] my home were developed,
[3:42:01] >> we we had a lot of new residents, little
[3:42:04] tiny little furry guys, cute little
[3:42:06] furry friends arrive.
[3:42:08] >> We, as I've said before, our goal is to
[3:42:10] be a very good member of this community,
[3:42:14] and we have no intention of letting
[3:42:16] critters escape. [laughter]
[3:42:17] >> And I'm not implying that the building
[3:42:19] has critters right now. Yeah,
[3:42:20] >> please know that it's just that's a
[3:42:23] concern I think for when when one does
[3:42:25] redevelopment or a development is is the
[3:42:27] that um animal impact on the neighbor on
[3:42:30] the
[3:42:31] >> I've heard the concern from him and I I
[3:42:33] I've heard of you know the stories from
[3:42:34] before and Dave and the rest of my team
[3:42:37] here like this to make sure that we're
[3:42:39] on top of it um last week.
[3:42:41] >> Thank you.
[3:42:42] >> Can I ask a good question?
[3:42:43] >> Yes. Um council,
[3:42:44] >> so what is your timeline for
[3:42:45] construction? You say you're gonna
[3:42:47] demolition is
[3:42:49] pending.
[3:42:50] >> Demolition is scheduled for 3 PM
[3:42:52] tomorrow if anyone's interested uh to
[3:42:54] start.
[3:42:55] >> And then construction is we are already
[3:42:58] going through the process. Once this is
[3:43:00] submitted, we are already ready to go
[3:43:02] through the site plan um submission
[3:43:05] process and building pro process. Our
[3:43:07] goal is to open this as soon as
[3:43:08] physically possible.
[3:43:10] >> Okay. Thank you.
[3:43:11] >> Thank you. Um is there anybody else? I
[3:43:14] guess the public hearing is still open.
[3:43:16] Is there anyone else who would like
[3:43:17] Okay, if you please come up and
[3:43:18] introduce yourself and you will have up
[3:43:21] to three minutes. Welcome.
[3:43:25] >> Thank you, city council members. I'm
[3:43:26] Wayne Barney. Um lived here in this
[3:43:28] neighborhood for 33 years. Um lived
[3:43:31] directly behind it. Uh grateful for the
[3:43:32] Clyde company to come up because we have
[3:43:35] been through this for probably 20 plus
[3:43:37] years trying to figure out what was
[3:43:38] going to go on. Uh the iDrive people
[3:43:40] have been good neighbors. We've
[3:43:41] appreciated that. Uh the one thing is
[3:43:43] and I've shown the the gentleman here
[3:43:45] that are with neers currently there are
[3:43:48] probably 3 to four foot of grass that's
[3:43:50] out there and those little neighbors
[3:43:51] that you're talking about two things.
[3:43:53] One they'll come from that but two I'm
[3:43:55] worried about the fire danger because I
[3:43:57] think in the last two years they've not
[3:43:58] cut the grass at all. Um but right now
[3:44:01] and I they were very good. I was just
[3:44:02] talking with them and showed them and
[3:44:03] said hey before you start that
[3:44:05] demolition tomorrow let's let's do some
[3:44:07] preparation here. Um in the back alley
[3:44:09] it's full of garbage. Homeless people
[3:44:11] have been living back there. trees are
[3:44:12] overgrown into the neighbors trees. If
[3:44:14] you start ripping that building down, my
[3:44:16] dad was the fire chief of Provo City for
[3:44:18] a long time and and uh there is a lot of
[3:44:21] danger out there and it goes right up to
[3:44:23] our fences and there's wood fences.
[3:44:25] Those fences go right up to our homes. I
[3:44:27] don't think they should be able to start
[3:44:28] ripping it down unless they've done some
[3:44:30] preparation. Clean the fields out. Get a weed eater in there. Clean
[3:44:33] everything out. that back lobby or that
[3:44:36] back alleyway that's just directly
[3:44:38] behind U Keith Walker's home is filled
[3:44:40] with trash and tents and homeless stuff
[3:44:42] that it comes there every year and in
[3:44:45] order to be able to do that and to be
[3:44:46] safe I think they actually just need to
[3:44:48] do that and those rodents that you're
[3:44:49] talking about they're living in that
[3:44:51] back alley um believe me uh we have we
[3:44:54] had chickens out there and so we would
[3:44:55] set traps and they would come along the
[3:44:57] fences and and there's a lot of rodents
[3:44:58] out there so two things one fire
[3:45:00] mitigation okay it's very important they
[3:45:02] shouldn't start this process as they
[3:45:04] have buildings going down and sparks
[3:45:05] flying because they're cutting things
[3:45:07] until they're prepared. Uh and so um
[3:45:09] just learned it was 3:00 tomorrow. They
[3:45:11] were very good to talk with and I said,
[3:45:12] "Please, please, please don't do this
[3:45:14] without some thought. Um uh we've lived
[3:45:17] there. We've raised our family there for
[3:45:18] the last 31 years. We want to be good
[3:45:20] neighbors, but we want them and we'll
[3:45:22] hold them accountable to being good
[3:45:24] neighbors, too. Believe me, uh we're
[3:45:26] going to have some problems with
[3:45:27] rodents, but more importantly, I'd like
[3:45:29] them to be prepared. But I know the the
[3:45:30] fire marshall's over here and if you
[3:45:32] went looked at I was showing him
[3:45:33] pictures there are weeds that are above
[3:45:35] my waist and they go right up to the
[3:45:37] fence and uh I could throw a match out
[3:45:39] there and that whole field would go
[3:45:40] tomorrow. Obviously don't want to do
[3:45:42] that. Grateful that we didn't have
[3:45:43] fireworks this year everybody even
[3:45:45] though I love fireworks. I thought that
[3:45:47] was a smart thing to do. But um I think
[3:45:50] everything else other than that they've
[3:45:51] done a pretty good job coming back with
[3:45:52] this program. But please uh let's be
[3:45:55] safe. And I was going to ask the fire
[3:45:56] marsh who I call to be able to have them
[3:45:58] come look at it before they start doing
[3:45:59] it because it is a fire hazard right now
[3:46:02] and it's dead and dry. And I just ask
[3:46:04] them to consider that. Thank you.
[3:46:07] >> So sir, it sounds like you've got maybe
[3:46:09] something on your to-do list before from
[3:46:11] 7:00 a.m. to 2:45 p.m. tomorrow.
[3:46:14] >> You got that down? Okay. So you'll be in
[3:46:16] connect contact to work on to work on
[3:46:19] that because Yeah. Thank you.
[3:46:23] Anybody else like to speak to this item?
[3:46:27] Seeing none, I go ahead and close the
[3:46:29] public hearing and bring this back to
[3:46:32] the city council
[3:46:34] for your discussion or and or action.
[3:46:44] What's your plan for that um drive-thru
[3:46:47] business on the south? Yeah.
[3:46:56] uh on the south end uh along State
[3:46:58] Street. We were uh we don't have any
[3:47:00] definitive plans, but we were looking
[3:47:02] for some type of a restaurant to be
[3:47:03] there. Um the drive-thru was designed
[3:47:05] such that it could hold I I think when
[3:47:08] we did the count it was to 15 cars
[3:47:10] before it spills into any of the
[3:47:12] exterior parking. So the restaurant concept is our plan for that.
[3:47:15] So, I had a resident ask me to ask you
[3:47:19] to um that we would love to have an
[3:47:21] In-N-Out, the north end of Oram,
[3:47:24] >> and I think that south in-n-out could do with some help.
[3:47:28] >> That would be amazing, but I think that
[3:47:30] would cause more issues as far as
[3:47:31] parking and backup drive-throughs than
[3:47:33] anything else we've talked about.
[3:47:34] >> I did ask though, right? Okay.
[3:47:44] » All right. Council, is there any other
[3:47:45] discussion?
[3:47:49] » Yes, Council Member Lamson.
[3:47:51] >> I I just want to to thank the applicant
[3:47:54] and Jared staff for uh presenting this
[3:47:57] so so well. Um and also uh the
[3:48:00] residents, Mr. Walker and Mr. Barney. Uh
[3:48:03] always appreciate your extra insights
[3:48:06] um looking at things with a with a very
[3:48:09] fine detail and a fine tooth comb. and I
[3:48:12] just appreciate your continual
[3:48:16] uh just being involved. Thank you.
[3:48:19] >> All right. Thank you.
[3:48:22] Anyone else?
[3:48:25] What would you like to do? Would you
[3:48:26] like to take some action on this
[3:48:27] council?
[3:48:31] member Kilpac.
[3:48:33] [gasps and sighs]
[3:48:38] So at 101.
[3:48:45] » So as we uh look at that then I mayor I
[3:48:47] move that we um amend
[3:48:52] through ordinance the amending appendix
[3:48:56] 0000 of the ORM city code by altering
[3:48:59] the existing concept plan for the PD53
[3:49:02] zone located generally at 890 1890 North
[3:49:05] State Street.
[3:49:06] >> Thank you. Have a motion. Is there a
[3:49:08] second?
[3:49:08] >> Second.
[3:49:09] >> All right. Thank you, Council Member
[3:49:10] Lamson.
[3:49:12] Any further discussion?
[3:49:15] All right. We'll start with you, Council
[3:49:16] Member Gail.
[3:49:18] >> I
[3:49:23] >> And Quinn
[3:49:24] >> I know it's the middle of the night.
[3:49:27] Thank you. All right. Motion um passes.
[3:49:31] Thank you.
[3:49:32] Our next item on the agenda is another
[3:49:34] public hearing and it's 10.2 amending
[3:49:38] article 22-5-3A
[3:49:40] and the zoning map of the city of ORM by
[3:49:42] changing the zone of the properties
[3:49:44] located generally at 360 west 1500 south
[3:49:48] from PF public facilities to R12 and R12
[3:49:52] single family residential. I did almost
[3:49:55] again. So they're they they are
[3:49:57] currently PF public facilities and R12
[3:50:00] to reszone those all to R8 single family
[3:50:03] residential and it's approximately 5.93
[3:50:06] acres. And we'll turn the time over to
[3:50:09] Mr. Hall.
[3:50:11] >> Thank you. Um so yeah, this is it's 5.45
[3:50:15] acres. I 5.93 is a misprint. I'm I
[3:50:17] apologize. 5.45 acres. We had another
[3:50:20] project that was recently on that was
[3:50:22] 5.93. probably pasted that number badly,
[3:50:25] but this has brought back that 2253A
[3:50:28] amending the map that you all know and
[3:50:30] love that number 2253A. So, these
[3:50:33] properties that are part of the the um
[3:50:35] project are in two different zones as
[3:50:36] you mentioned, mayor, the PF public
[3:50:38] facilities and the R12 zone. Um the
[3:50:41] planning commission held a hearing. Um
[3:50:43] they had an earlier hearing was
[3:50:45] continued to June 3rd where they did
[3:50:46] finally uh make a decision and vote 6
[3:50:49] to0 to recommend approval of the change
[3:50:51] of zoning to R8 for all of those
[3:50:53] different properties. Um this is an
[3:50:56] outline of the properties that are
[3:50:58] involved and as I said they're in two
[3:50:59] different zones but they are all in the
[3:51:00] same land use designation in the general
[3:51:02] plan. Uh it's all in the in the R sorry
[3:51:05] in the lowdensity residential
[3:51:07] designation.
[3:51:08] Um this is the zoning map. So you can
[3:51:12] see the the different the PF zone is the
[3:51:14] portion owned by the city and this is
[3:51:16] the R12 portion here. Uh this part is
[3:51:19] necessary to be part of the subdivision
[3:51:22] um to get to the city-owned property and uh included in that subdivision. Um
[3:51:28] it makes it work better with the road uh
[3:51:30] coming through if those are R8 lots.
[3:51:33] They're larger than 8,000 ft², but it
[3:51:35] works better uh than the 12. Um, this is
[3:51:38] a concept. So, it's I apologize. It's
[3:51:40] flipped on its side there a little bit,
[3:51:42] but you can still see that basic shape.
[3:51:44] So, this is that road 1600 south coming
[3:51:46] up and then it would curve through. It
[3:51:49] could either go through or it could
[3:51:50] culde-sac. We've we've illustrated the
[3:51:52] culdesac version here. It seemed to be
[3:51:53] the most popular. At the neighborhood
[3:51:55] meeting, we did hold a neighborhood
[3:51:56] meeting as required uh by the code for
[3:51:59] this. Uh, that was held back in
[3:52:01] February. I'm trying to remember. It's
[3:52:02] been a long time since February, but I
[3:52:05] believe it was February. Um,
[3:52:08] a couple of things to note about the
[3:52:09] concept subdivision that we've uh
[3:52:12] prepared. It does allow for 18 uh single
[3:52:15] family lots in that R8 zone. It could be
[3:52:18] culde-sac or go through. Um, it allows
[3:52:20] some connections of sewer and water um
[3:52:23] and then access for budding properties
[3:52:25] to the east. We we've held out a larger
[3:52:27] easement that would allow access for the
[3:52:28] properties on the east side uh to access
[3:52:31] their properties and or develop in the
[3:52:32] future uh if they'd like to. this this
[3:52:36] concept um plan. This one is to
[3:52:39] illustrate the outline of the property
[3:52:40] cuz I think it's hard to see in our
[3:52:42] other concept plans. So, this one though
[3:52:44] shows you better the detail. This would
[3:52:45] be a an easement that would allow us to
[3:52:47] connect those utilities um from 1600
[3:52:50] south to the north. Uh it helps with
[3:52:53] sewer problems and issues that we have
[3:52:54] in this area connecting that sewer. Uh
[3:52:56] loops the water lines. Um we could also
[3:52:58] provide pedestrian access if this were
[3:53:00] culde-sac. could still provide
[3:53:02] pedestrian access out to the north uh as
[3:53:04] well. So that that helps out a lot as
[3:53:07] well. Um
[3:53:09] are there other questions that you might
[3:53:11] have about this property?
[3:53:12] >> I have a couple questions and so uh one I' I've talked to council member
[3:53:18] Millet about but I I'm going to ask
[3:53:21] somebody else beside no no offense but
[3:53:23] somebody a staff member to give the same
[3:53:25] an to give me the answer. Well I asked
[3:53:27] the other question is why why was it
[3:53:29] zone PF? But the first question I'm
[3:53:31] going to ask is because I've asked u Mr.
[3:53:33] Hall this before is uh what what was the
[3:53:38] zoning of this of the city-owned
[3:53:40] property before it became PF zone?
[3:53:43] >> It was zoned R I was about to say R8 but
[3:53:47] I think it was either R8 or R12.
[3:53:49] >> It was R8 or R12. So it was already a
[3:53:51] low density residential single family
[3:53:53] zone.
[3:53:53] >> Okay. Another question I have is the
[3:53:56] city the applicant I'm looking we did
[3:53:59] were we the applicant on behalf of the
[3:54:01] other is the other property owner here
[3:54:02] >> Mr. Licky.
[3:54:03] >> Okay. Okay. I didn't know if you wanted
[3:54:05] to add anything. Okay. You don't have
[3:54:08] I'm not going to make you I just wanted
[3:54:09] to give you the opportunity to that.
[3:54:12] Okay. So I come back and ask what what
[3:54:14] was the reason why this property was
[3:54:17] zoned PF?
[3:54:21] This is before my time. So, I'll give a
[3:54:23] I'll give at least an initial summary
[3:54:25] answer and then Steve and Gary can add
[3:54:28] to if if there's anything I'm I'm
[3:54:29] missing. So, at the time that we uh
[3:54:33] added that public facility zone, uh we
[3:54:35] did it for all of the uh uh
[3:54:39] publiclyowned uh properties within the
[3:54:41] city. Um and and
[3:54:45] from my recollection, the main uh
[3:54:47] purpose of that was to preserve all of
[3:54:50] the open space uh within the city uh to
[3:54:54] the best we can andor make sure that the
[3:54:56] city was part of um
[3:55:00] uh that the city was more involved, had
[3:55:03] a had a greater voice, that there would
[3:55:05] be sort of greater kind of public input
[3:55:08] in the event that uh uh there was any
[3:55:11] change in the development or the zone
[3:55:13] from there
[3:55:14] >> like like what we're having right now.
[3:55:17] >> Correct.
[3:55:17] >> Okay.
[3:55:18] >> So, uh thank you. Question. Uh in an R8
[3:55:23] zone, are parks allowed in an R8 and an
[3:55:25] R12 zone?
[3:55:26] >> Yes.
[3:55:27] >> So, so those are as permitted uses
[3:55:30] >> peritted uses in this in that zoning and
[3:55:32] in the PF zone as well.
[3:55:33] >> And in the PF zone as well. change of
[3:55:35] zoning doesn't impact that whether it
[3:55:36] could be a park or development as a park
[3:55:39] would not be impacted by this particular
[3:55:40] change of zoning.
[3:55:41] >> Okay. Because I know the city's looked
[3:55:42] at the possibilities of that. I And
[3:55:45] anyway, council, I don't mean to be
[3:55:47] hoggish with questions, but if do you
[3:55:49] have any questions for Mr. Hall?
[3:55:53] He's also the applicant. So,
[3:55:57] okay, we don't have any questions. So,
[3:56:00] we're going to go ahead and um I'm going
[3:56:03] to go ahead and open the public hearing.
[3:56:05] Um just as a note, we did receive some
[3:56:07] emails from some individuals who were
[3:56:10] not able to attend this evening who
[3:56:12] wanted to give feedback and the city
[3:56:13] council received those those emails in
[3:56:17] their work session. And so, I don't know
[3:56:20] if any pe any anybody who emailed in
[3:56:22] before our meeting uh is listening, but
[3:56:25] we did receive we did receive those and
[3:56:27] had a chance to review those. So, I'm
[3:56:29] going to go ahead and open up the public
[3:56:31] hearing. And if there's anyone here this
[3:56:34] evening who would like to speak to this
[3:56:36] issue, I invite you to come up,
[3:56:37] introduce yourself, and you have up to
[3:56:39] three minutes to to share your thoughts
[3:56:43] with us. Thank you.
[3:56:48] » Thank you. Um, Steve Sammon, I have
[3:56:51] property adjacent on the east side of
[3:56:54] the the city property. We own a house, a
[3:56:57] barn, and the lot that are just right
[3:56:59] next to each other.
[3:57:02] Um, my only question is one of the
[3:57:04] previous meetings you mentioned. If it
[3:57:06] does become a park,
[3:57:09] the parking lot, um, you you said
[3:57:12] there's the easement is going to be
[3:57:13] taken care of so that we have access
[3:57:16] those those properties on that east
[3:57:18] side,
[3:57:19] >> right? There's there's a large easement.
[3:57:21] I just you mentioned in the previous
[3:57:23] meeting that the city doesn't always
[3:57:26] give uh access from a parking lot in a
[3:57:30] park situation.
[3:57:31] >> Yeah. Not not always.
[3:57:32] >> It's not impossible.
[3:57:33] >> Okay. That's really my only concern is
[3:57:35] we just want uh we have the barn, we
[3:57:38] have the lot. We would like to develop
[3:57:40] it sometime.
[3:57:41] >> Um and so we just want to make sure we
[3:57:43] get an easement for
[3:57:44] >> that is in the event that if if it
[3:57:46] becomes a park.
[3:57:46] >> Yeah. If it if it if it becomes a
[3:57:48] neighborhood, I don't think it's an
[3:57:49] issue. Okay. But you had mentioned that
[3:57:52] before and I just remembered. Yeah. So
[3:57:53] that's my my only thing is we just want
[3:57:55] to have an easement for for Thank you.
[3:57:56] >> Okay. Thank you.
[3:57:58] >> Is anyone else who'd like to speak to
[3:57:59] this?
[3:58:01] >> All right. You come up, introduce
[3:58:02] yourself, and you'll have up to three
[3:58:04] minutes to share your thoughts. Welcome.
[3:58:07] >> Y um Joseph Creer. We are the property
[3:58:10] owners that are exactly north of the
[3:58:12] development. We are landlocked in
[3:58:15] between the deadend street 1450 South
[3:58:19] and the condominiums.
[3:58:21] And so we're hoping to get access to the
[3:58:24] two full acres that that are right
[3:58:26] there. We have no sewer connection.
[3:58:29] We've been working with the city for 2
[3:58:30] years this June. Um we are planning
[3:58:35] hoping that the street name is called
[3:58:37] Sunflower Dunes if you guys can see it
[3:58:38] on your map. Um, but we are trying to uh
[3:58:43] put in what would be four homes for my
[3:58:47] siblings and myself. U my parents live
[3:58:51] on that street. They've been there for
[3:58:52] 50 years. This is one of those legacy, I
[3:58:55] guess, projects. But we want to thank um
[3:58:58] Jared, all the city council members, the
[3:59:00] civil engineers, everybody who've worked
[3:59:02] so hard to help us um to develop. We're
[3:59:06] in favor of the R8 zone change, of
[3:59:08] course. Um we prefer the culde-sac over
[3:59:12] the through street um due to all the
[3:59:14] constraints on 1400 South. It's a very
[3:59:17] bumpy narrow road. We don't think that
[3:59:19] the through street would ever work
[3:59:21] there, but um we want to thank everybody
[3:59:24] for all of their efforts in making this
[3:59:26] development happen. Thank you guys.
[3:59:28] >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else would
[3:59:30] like to speak to this?
[3:59:34] All right. Seeing none, I'll go ahead
[3:59:35] and close the public hearing. Oh, we got
[3:59:38] one more. just
[3:59:39] >> Okay, Marian, you introduce yourself
[3:59:41] again. And you got up to three minutes.
[3:59:43] >> And I really am looking forward to this
[3:59:47] property being settled
[3:59:49] um to being dealt with. Our home is
[3:59:52] right on 1600 South, 325 West, and we're
[3:59:58] neighbors to Jay Namy Liy. and the sewer
[4:00:02] and connection for all of that parcel
[4:00:06] going north and the stability of
[4:00:09] residential and if it truly was to
[4:00:12] become a park
[4:00:15] that can fulfill a purpose also but the
[4:00:18] connections for water and infrastructure
[4:00:20] and sewer lines are wonderful and I will
[4:00:24] give you some handson feedback about the
[4:00:28] development
[4:00:30] art Arcadia. Arcadia. Jared.
[4:00:32] >> Acadia.
[4:00:33] Acadia. The road is now open and
[4:00:38] it is dispersing traffic already. We
[4:00:41] raised our family in 466 West 1600 South
[4:00:46] or 1640 south. And we know many of those
[4:00:50] neighbors. And I literally was able to
[4:00:54] start asking them, "Have you started
[4:00:56] seeing an increase?" Now, granted, the
[4:00:58] homes aren't all built in, but I will
[4:01:01] tell you the engineering and traffic
[4:01:05] information that more connectivity
[4:01:08] adds to more dispersal and better
[4:01:11] access. It's true. It works quite well.
[4:01:16] So, we're we're very grateful that this
[4:01:18] is going forward. And Jared, the
[4:01:20] question I have for you is,
[4:01:23] have the the test holes been done? I
[4:01:26] didn't quite hear that. And I might have
[4:01:27] stepped out for just a moment.
[4:01:30] >> I don't have an update on those.
[4:01:31] >> Okay. We just aren't sure how much is
[4:01:34] hidden underneath there. And
[4:01:36] >> yes, we we went in and we had uh an
[4:01:40] engineering firm come and uh do some
[4:01:43] test pits and everywhere. That gave us
[4:01:45] enough, this was very early on, that
[4:01:48] gave us enough confidence to take the
[4:01:50] next step forward. One of the things
[4:01:52] then as we've gone on, we in cooperation
[4:01:55] with public works, uh, and I'm sad I
[4:01:58] missed the day, uh, we went out there
[4:02:01] and we dug test pits on every potential
[4:02:04] lot in the buildable areas. Wow.
[4:02:07] >> Where homes would be and we didn't find
[4:02:10] anything that scared us. So, we think
[4:02:14] there is some things there, but we're
[4:02:17] right now at least we feel confident
[4:02:19] moving forward. So, it may be viable and
[4:02:21] we're very happy to hear that also.
[4:02:23] Thank you.
[4:02:24] >> Thank you. Oh, and look at Marian, you
[4:02:26] started a trend.
[4:02:28] >> All right. Welcome.
[4:02:29] >> I'm Marcus Jones. Um, I'm one of the
[4:02:32] properties that's near the park as well
[4:02:33] at 1645 South 300 West. Um, I guess for
[4:02:38] me, I I feel like we're talking about
[4:02:41] like the plans of all these and what the
[4:02:43] layout is and everything and the
[4:02:44] proposed plan. Um, but that plan has
[4:02:47] homes on it. it has lots that are being
[4:02:49] proposed, I guess, is the thing. And I
[4:02:51] feel like that's telling me already that
[4:02:53] it's not going to move into a park
[4:02:54] direction. Um, and with that, I think it kind of changes my mindset of, okay,
[4:03:00] well, sure, there may be a park that's
[4:03:02] included in this R8 zoning and stuff,
[4:03:04] but highly, it's going to go to a
[4:03:06] developer and get developed, I guess.
[4:03:08] Um, even with that though, whether we
[4:03:11] build a park or not, the infrastructure
[4:03:12] would still come in because you still
[4:03:13] need bathrooms and stuff, though. So, I
[4:03:16] think um protecting the green space like
[4:03:20] we talked about, right? Like this is a high dense area. There's
[4:03:24] buildings that are right just north of
[4:03:27] that too of apartment buildings. If you
[4:03:29] go um to the west, even though there
[4:03:33] looks like there's a big green lot there
[4:03:34] and stuff, that's all been developed out
[4:03:36] now too into homes as well. Um,
[4:03:40] but you know, I think I think for me
[4:03:42] it's um
[4:03:45] this is a public facilities property and
[4:03:48] I don't think we're thinking about it
[4:03:49] like that right now. We're thinking
[4:03:50] about it as how can we get this off our
[4:03:52] books so then we can develop it. I guess
[4:03:54] though and I think bringing it back to
[4:03:57] well, what can we actually build here
[4:03:58] that would help the community out
[4:03:59] instead? it should be the priority
[4:04:01] instead. Without a significant um
[4:04:06] I guess benefit to the community, I
[4:04:09] don't see why we would reszone,
[4:04:11] but thanks.
[4:04:12] >> All right. Thank you. I appreciate your
[4:04:14] thoughts. All right. Is there anyone
[4:04:16] else?
[4:04:19] Welcome. If you introduce yourself and
[4:04:21] you got up to three minutes.
[4:04:22] >> Yeah. I'm Jay Lake. I should say
[4:04:24] something. Um, so
[4:04:27] I really want uh we live in a city and
[4:04:31] we need to get along with the neighbors.
[4:04:32] I really want the sewer to go through
[4:04:34] and um the neighbors to be happy. I you
[4:04:36] know being an outdoors person, I prefer
[4:04:38] the trees, but um if we can have a few
[4:04:42] trees left when we do houses, I guess
[4:04:43] it'll be all right. But um my concern is
[4:04:46] I don't want the street going through.
[4:04:49] So I mean know this is issue is not
[4:04:51] about that at all. So, but if that I
[4:04:53] prefer the culde-sac
[4:04:55] way and um many of the neighbors swear
[4:04:59] up and down there's hundreds of loads of
[4:05:01] concrete. Maybe the city didn't discover
[4:05:03] it. Hopefully, they don't, but it's
[4:05:05] possible where the they're going to put
[4:05:06] the sewer line, maybe they'll run into
[4:05:08] some issues, but if they have their own
[4:05:11] equipment, they can just keep digging
[4:05:12] and digging and haul it out. And then
[4:05:14] some of us uh own property on the east
[4:05:18] side of the city property. And if you
[4:05:20] looked at the picture, there's a a small
[4:05:22] dirt road that runs north and south.
[4:05:24] They had my my concern is I still want
[4:05:26] access through there. That's the only
[4:05:27] way it can get into my lower level of my
[4:05:30] property. In the winter time, the road's
[4:05:32] really slick. You can't go up the hill.
[4:05:33] And and they they've been cooperative.
[4:05:34] They said we work something out. We just
[4:05:35] have to get away with fire way to get a
[4:05:37] fire truck to um turn in and out. Um, so
[4:05:43] I'm pretty easygoing, but we we want a
[4:05:47] betterment of the community, but um I I would be happier or as an alternative
[4:05:53] just to get the neighbors sewer and just
[4:05:55] to keep it vacant land and trees and and do something. I know that's a
[4:06:00] far-fetched possibility, but being one
[4:06:03] of the only forests left in the a city
[4:06:05] and and the Wasad's front, it's
[4:06:07] something to think about. Thank you.
[4:06:12] If I remember correctly,
[4:06:14] uh this property, the city did not
[4:06:17] purchase this property. It was given to
[4:06:19] the city. Is that correct? Is it only
[4:06:21] given to the city by UD do
[4:06:23] >> as part of another project?
[4:06:25] >> That that's what the the county records
[4:06:27] show. They show that this uh property
[4:06:29] was conveyed to the city in 1976 by UD
[4:06:31] do
[4:06:33] >> and uh I don't think we have any
[4:06:35] records, but my suspicion is that we
[4:06:37] didn't pay anything for that. They just
[4:06:39] conveyed it to us as surplus property.
[4:06:41] >> Okay. And then remind if someone can
[4:06:42] remind me the size of the city owned
[4:06:45] piece of the city owned property. So if
[4:06:47] it's 5.43 minus um the
[4:06:50] >> city- owned portion is I circled it here
[4:06:54] 3.8 acres.
[4:06:55] >> So 3.8 acres is is what it looks like do
[4:07:00] conveyed to the city.
[4:07:01] >> It was actually a much larger parcel
[4:07:03] that UD do conveyed. I'm not sure what
[4:07:05] happened to the rest of it, but this is
[4:07:08] what's left. And it it was act if you
[4:07:11] look at the deed, it actually says it
[4:07:12] was something like 24 acres that they
[4:07:14] conveyed to us.
[4:07:15] >> Interesting.
[4:07:16] >> Yeah.
[4:07:17] >> So, wow. All right. I digress while the
[4:07:20] public hearing is open. Anyone else
[4:07:21] would like to speak to this?
[4:07:24] >> Seeing no one who would like to um
[4:07:27] speak, I'll go ahead and close the
[4:07:28] public hearing and bring it back to the
[4:07:31] council for discussion. Let's discuss.
[4:07:34] can ask some questions.
[4:07:35] >> Okay, Council Member Millet.
[4:07:36] >> Okay, so as was indicated, we received
[4:07:39] some emails right before this meeting.
[4:07:41] So, if we could, and I know this has
[4:07:44] been discussed at different times, but
[4:07:45] let's just make sure we're clear on
[4:07:47] what's happening here and what the
[4:07:50] um implications are. So, they have that
[4:07:53] these neighbors who live next to this
[4:07:55] property have significant concerns
[4:07:57] regarding access. And I believe that's
[4:08:00] the um rear, you know what they've
[4:08:04] talked about. Would you kind of address
[4:08:05] that one first?
[4:08:06] >> Um to the access to the north is the
[4:08:08] career rear family. Um that's the
[4:08:11] Sunflower Dunes project that needs uh
[4:08:14] sewer connection of some kind. There's a
[4:08:15] difficulty in in uh accessing or or
[4:08:19] providing facilities serving this
[4:08:21] property that the career zone. um a a
[4:08:24] street coming up into here and
[4:08:25] development of this property would run a
[4:08:27] sewer line, allow us to connect that out
[4:08:29] here and then serve them with sewer and
[4:08:31] other properties in here. There's a lot
[4:08:33] of properties on the east that are also
[4:08:34] on septic that can be served with sewer
[4:08:37] as well.
[4:08:37] >> Can I give you an address without uh
[4:08:39] 1554 South 325 West?
[4:08:41] >> Okay,
[4:08:42] >> that's the individual who has this
[4:08:44] concern.
[4:08:44] >> Okay,
[4:08:45] >> so is this
[4:08:46] >> the concern is about access or about
[4:08:49] >> access, safety, and infrastructure. So,
[4:08:51] I think we've answered most of these,
[4:08:52] but the the access is going to be to the
[4:08:54] rear property. Yeah.
[4:08:55] >> Safety's the fire um chief's you know,
[4:08:59] access there and then the
[4:09:00] infrastructures, the sewer, water.
[4:09:03] >> Maybe just review all those briefly so
[4:09:05] we can um indicate we've received these
[4:09:08] and we want to really address their
[4:09:09] concerns.
[4:09:10] >> That's a great that's great. Let me do it this this way probably. So,
[4:09:14] in terms of access, what what we're able
[4:09:16] to do, you can see um Jay referred to
[4:09:18] that dirt road that runs along the east
[4:09:20] kind of spine of this property. Um
[4:09:23] that's this area here. And you can see
[4:09:25] that dash those dash lines. Those would
[4:09:26] all be easement uh that we can allow
[4:09:28] access for these folks to get to their
[4:09:31] properties if they need to across the
[4:09:32] back of these others. Um these are these
[4:09:35] are large enough to be R8 properties and
[4:09:38] still provide that kind of easement. uh
[4:09:40] they could these folks could get to
[4:09:42] their properties when they need it. We
[4:09:43] could provide sewer to their properties.
[4:09:45] Um it's here in the road, but they could
[4:09:47] run through those utility easements and
[4:09:49] let them be sewered finally after the
[4:09:51] years of being on septic if should they
[4:09:52] choose to do that. Um there's even
[4:09:55] enough land that we could provide uh a a
[4:09:58] roadway or some sort of private road for
[4:10:00] them to serve flag lots if they wanted
[4:10:02] to. A lot of those properties are large.
[4:10:04] They could develop in the future if they
[4:10:05] wanted to. That would of course be up to
[4:10:07] them. We would just provide the easement
[4:10:08] as part of our subdivision. That's a
[4:10:10] commitment that we made during the
[4:10:11] neighborhood meeting and
[4:10:13] >> please show the fire access.
[4:10:14] >> Okay. And fire access.
[4:10:15] >> I don't know what happened to ours. My
[4:10:17] screen's blank. Is your screen
[4:10:18] >> right now? Those folks are all these
[4:10:20] properties. Um, let me go back to this.
[4:10:22] So these properties fire would be fought
[4:10:25] on those properties from this road here,
[4:10:26] not from the backside. Um, so I'm not
[4:10:29] sure about the fire access question
[4:10:30] unless they were to develop a flag
[4:10:33] >> for the subdivision. The new
[4:10:34] subdivision.
[4:10:34] >> Yeah. In the subdivision. fire access
[4:10:37] for the subdivision would go up into the
[4:10:38] this is a standard culde-sac. It's not
[4:10:39] too long. It meets all of our normal
[4:10:41] emergency
[4:10:43] access for that. So there's there's no
[4:10:44] question on on the subdivision that
[4:10:46] we're sort of in concept proposing for
[4:10:48] fire access or emergency services.
[4:10:50] That's all well served. It is steep.
[4:10:52] That's for sure. Coming up this hill
[4:10:54] right here, this would be fairly steep,
[4:10:56] but those grades all get approved as
[4:10:57] part of the subdivision process. We have
[4:10:59] to look at all of that and that corner.
[4:11:02] The the chief loves 90° angles wherever
[4:11:04] we can get them. I know. Um but uh they
[4:11:08] we'll put that through its paces. It has
[4:11:10] to meet all of our standards.
[4:11:12] >> But one thing with this, if we can go
[4:11:15] back to the uh map, the
[4:11:18] >> Do you want the subdivision map, Gary,
[4:11:19] or the aerial?
[4:11:20] >> Subdivision map.
[4:11:21] >> I I'm on the subdivision map, but we've
[4:11:23] got a
[4:11:24] >> Yeah, we keep
[4:11:25] >> There we go.
[4:11:25] That utility uh access
[4:11:29] between uh uh lot C6 and lot C5. that
[4:11:35] goes up there. If you can see that. Um,
[4:11:38] no, no, no, no, no. Off the bulb of the
[4:11:42] culdeac. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, right
[4:11:43] there. [laughter]
[4:11:44] >> That it that's where some water sewer
[4:11:48] can come down and that's how we can get
[4:11:51] sewer from people who are on septic
[4:11:54] north of this area. It would provide a
[4:11:57] way for them to hook into the city
[4:11:59] system also. But that uh access that
[4:12:02] we're talking about would also be a
[4:12:04] pedestrian access that in emergency
[4:12:07] situations, emergency vehicles would be
[4:12:10] able to get through there and provide
[4:12:13] more safety to the neighborhood uh with
[4:12:16] that. So while uh there would not be
[4:12:18] routine cars driving through that, it
[4:12:21] still would provide uh connections
[4:12:23] between the neighborhoods for
[4:12:25] pedestrians, bicyclists, but it also
[4:12:27] would be something we would work with
[4:12:29] public safety that in a very very rare
[4:12:33] emergency, they could use that area
[4:12:35] somehow.
[4:12:36] >> Perfect. And then just kind of to the
[4:12:38] infrastructure addressing the community
[4:12:40] benefit um
[4:12:43] m
[4:12:44] of this helping people connect to city
[4:12:49] sewer.
[4:12:50] >> Sure.
[4:12:50] >> Versus the septic.
[4:12:52] >> So that that's a that's a big benefit
[4:12:54] and I and I gather it's been sort of a
[4:12:56] promise that was made that at some point
[4:12:57] we would provide that kind of access uh
[4:13:00] to city sewer. Um, and then just in
[4:13:03] terms of this is the this is the best
[4:13:06] way to provide that because it it allows
[4:13:08] us some some way to help pay for that as
[4:13:11] well, honestly. So, um, I don't know. Do
[4:13:14] you want to say more about that? I'm not
[4:13:15] sure what else to
[4:13:16] >> I just and I appreciate that you're kind
[4:13:17] of being repetitive here. I I I can
[4:13:20] appreciate that. I'm just trying to make
[4:13:22] sure that as I'm reading these emails
[4:13:24] that we are kind of addressing because
[4:13:26] those people's, you know, or individuals
[4:13:28] aren't able to be here. So,
[4:13:29] >> yeah. No, I understand. Thank you.
[4:13:33] All right, council. Any other
[4:13:35] discussion?
[4:13:40] I have a question. Is uh how long ago
[4:13:42] was this zone PF's zone?
[4:13:47] » I believe in 2022.
[4:13:49] >> So, it it was residential from whenever
[4:13:53] >> from way back
[4:13:54] >> to 2022.
[4:13:55] >> Yep. And so and it's been public
[4:13:58] facilities and that was that that action
[4:14:00] was taken as as I recall a blanket just
[4:14:03] reszone every piece of property that the
[4:14:05] city owns.
[4:14:06] >> Yes.
[4:14:07] >> Within the its city limits.
[4:14:09] >> Yes.
[4:14:09] >> To PF.
[4:14:10] >> Yes.
[4:14:11] >> So there wasn't a direct
[4:14:13] >> like saying we're going to reszone
[4:14:16] this piece. It was just
[4:14:18] >> correct. Yeah. It wasn't that hey we're
[4:14:19] zoning this PF for a specific purpose at
[4:14:22] that time. It was a blanket. All city
[4:14:24] property was
[4:14:25] >> and school property, wasn't it?
[4:14:26] >> And school district property, too. Yes.
[4:14:28] >> Okay. Okay. I remember reading about
[4:14:30] that.
[4:14:30] >> Yes.
[4:14:31] >> So, okay. Thank you. Uh, Mr. McCann, did
[4:14:34] you have a comment?
[4:14:35] >> Yes. Someone uh I can't remember who
[4:14:38] made a comment something about uh this
[4:14:41] could be a possibly a park and change
[4:14:44] and what's the city benefit? As we've
[4:14:47] looked at this area, this city property
[4:14:50] has been listed in the 2021 parks master
[4:14:55] plan as a possibility of a park there.
[4:14:58] But it also acknowledges that in this
[4:15:00] southwest area, uh, this neighborhood is
[4:15:04] served by, you know, several parks. Uh,
[4:15:07] you've got Nelson's Grove just to the
[4:15:09] south, Cherry Hill, and another park in
[4:15:12] the area. And the nature of the
[4:15:15] property, as you're probably aware,
[4:15:17] makes it difficult to really be a usable
[4:15:20] park. And so with that in mind, uh you
[4:15:24] know, what could we do to make this a
[4:15:26] park? What might the cost be to create a
[4:15:29] park and the usefulness of the wider
[4:15:32] community? And one of the driving forces
[4:15:35] behind this in my mind was if we could
[4:15:39] take this property, not spend the money
[4:15:42] that would go into building a frankly
[4:15:46] marginal park. It is uh a beautiful
[4:15:49] piece of ground, but it is difficult to
[4:15:52] uh build and maintain
[4:15:54] and we could
[4:15:57] develop it because it's our our property
[4:16:00] and have the infrastructure in and then
[4:16:04] sell the lots off to be homes. You would
[4:16:07] have homes that could strengthen a
[4:16:10] neighborhood bringing in uh uh
[4:16:13] individual owners. And as a city, since
[4:16:15] it's our property, um we've talked with
[4:16:19] uh residents that we could do things and
[4:16:22] think about uh ensuring that they are
[4:16:25] owner occupied and possibly doing deed
[4:16:29] restrictions and things like that to to
[4:16:31] ensure that one they have owner
[4:16:33] occupancy in the area. By doing this and
[4:16:36] building the infrastructure, we can work
[4:16:38] with like the careers and the people to
[4:16:41] the east and those who are on septic.
[4:16:44] Now we have a vehicle to put in the
[4:16:47] infrastructure where careers could
[4:16:49] develop. Uh neighbors could get on
[4:16:52] septic system. Uh adjoining property
[4:16:55] owners to the east could cooperate with
[4:16:57] us and in some sort of cost sharing way
[4:17:01] be able to develop the backside of their
[4:17:03] property. And then as we've looked at
[4:17:05] it, a developer at the end of the day
[4:17:08] wants to make a profit. Uh we don't want
[4:17:12] to make a profit. We want it to work and
[4:17:15] function and then we want to give that
[4:17:17] money. That would happen and the council
[4:17:19] would have it and one of our suggestions
[4:17:21] would be now take this money and where
[4:17:25] can we in the southwest area which has
[4:17:27] one of our greatest needs for parks as
[4:17:30] it's developing. Can we leverage that
[4:17:33] into a more usable park in a more in a
[4:17:36] better area from the standpoint of being
[4:17:39] more easily accessible to the community
[4:17:42] at large? So, I think those are some of
[4:17:45] the community benefits that we see by
[4:17:48] doing this rather than just merely a
[4:17:51] park there that the community as a whole
[4:17:54] uh really can benefit on many many
[4:17:57] levels uh because of this action.
[4:18:00] All right. Thank you. Thank you for the
[4:18:03] um explanation.
[4:18:05] [gasps] All right, council. Any other
[4:18:07] discussion?
[4:18:10] » Mayor,
[4:18:11] >> I hear voice. Okay.
[4:18:13] >> Um I
[4:18:15] >> I appreciate your sharing that. And I
[4:18:17] just want to say that I I do support the
[4:18:20] reason on this. Um I think that there's
[4:18:23] clear benefit in helping uh connect
[4:18:25] people to the sewer. Uh I think
[4:18:28] particularly if we can have deed
[4:18:30] restrictions that limit these homes to
[4:18:33] uh owner occupied homes that it helps us
[4:18:35] with our uh housing affordability
[4:18:37] questions. And I I'm fully supportive of
[4:18:40] the idea that as we potentially make
[4:18:44] profit from selling some of those lots
[4:18:46] that we uh put that into open space and
[4:18:50] parks in the city to benefit the
[4:18:52] community. Thanks.
[4:18:55] >> All right. Thank you, Council Member
[4:18:57] Mikum.
[4:18:58] All right, council. If there's no
[4:19:00] further discussion, would you like to
[4:19:02] take some some sort of action?
[4:19:04] >> I can make a motion. Um, I move that by
[4:19:07] ordinance we amend article 2253A
[4:19:10] and the zoning map of this city of ORM
[4:19:13] by changing the zone of the properties
[4:19:15] located generally at 360 West 1500 South
[4:19:19] from PF public facilities
[4:19:22] to R8 single family residential with the
[4:19:27] intent of
[4:19:29] um I'm not sure how to say this but
[4:19:31] financing another park in in Oram. How
[4:19:34] do I say that? Steve,
[4:19:36] >> do you want to include We need to
[4:19:37] include the R12 in
[4:19:39] >> Oh, and the and um R12 single family
[4:19:42] residential.
[4:19:44] >> So, your motion includes So, just to
[4:19:46] make sure.
[4:19:46] >> You want me to read that again? Located.
[4:19:48] >> You can read again. Yeah.
[4:19:49] >> From located generally at 360 West, 1500
[4:19:52] South from PF public facilities and R12
[4:19:55] single family residential to R8 single
[4:19:58] family residential
[4:20:01] with the approximately 5.45 four or five
[4:20:03] acres with the intent of creating
[4:20:05] another park elsewhere in
[4:20:08] >> Is that something is that can we include
[4:20:10] that what a direction on what the the
[4:20:12] sale of the the proceeds?
[4:20:13] >> Sure.
[4:20:14] >> Okay.
[4:20:16] All right. We have a motion. Thank you,
[4:20:17] Council Member Mill. Is there a second?
[4:20:21] >> I second.
[4:20:22] >> Okay. Council member Gail second. Right.
[4:20:26] Okay. Because we had a tie here. All
[4:20:29] right. Is there any further discussion?
[4:20:32] All right. Council member Lamson, how do
[4:20:34] you vote?
[4:20:35] >> I vote I
[4:20:37] >> I.
[4:20:40] >> Council member Mikum.
[4:20:41] >> I
[4:20:44] >> All right. Motion carries. Thank you.
[4:20:49] >> Thank you. And then the next item on our
[4:20:51] agenda is this is financial items.
[4:20:54] Council members, you'll find the
[4:20:55] financial statement in your city council
[4:20:57] meeting packet. And so item number 12 is
[4:21:02] um an opportunity for city manager to
[4:21:05] [gasps] impart information upon us.
[4:21:09] Thank you, mayor and council. Just one
[4:21:10] quick item. You'll notice on your
[4:21:12] calendar there is uh an event coming up
[4:21:14] towards the end of the month. It's a
[4:21:16] collaboration between our arts council
[4:21:18] and the world uh world folk fest
[4:21:22] organization and it'll take place on a Wednesday during our very popular
[4:21:27] farmers market. something new that we're
[4:21:30] um adding as an opportunity for you
[4:21:32] since you are all uh uh wonderfully
[4:21:36] social people loving people. Um we will
[4:21:40] we are we are adding um a tent wherein
[4:21:44] uh you can come and interact with the
[4:21:45] public and in this case you know there
[4:21:48] will be um representatives and
[4:21:50] performers from nine different countries
[4:21:52] around the world. Um, so that that's
[4:21:55] just something we want you to be aware
[4:21:56] of as we as uh our the popularity of our
[4:22:00] events continues. Uh, we want to make
[4:22:02] sure you have an opportunity to interact
[4:22:04] with people and and answer their
[4:22:06] questions and and listen to, you know,
[4:22:09] any feedback they have for us as a city.
[4:22:11] >> So, this is the all things all things or
[4:22:14] that like we did at summer or Oh. Oh,
[4:22:18] here goes another babo. Okay. or fest to
[4:22:22] write on the chalkboard again.
[4:22:24] >> I have to go back. Okay. The white board
[4:22:26] and I are gonna Yes. Is this like we did
[4:22:29] >> it's it's along that same vein in that
[4:22:31] same spirit. Yes.
[4:22:33] >> Yes. Well, while we while we have our
[4:22:35] closed door meeting, I will be spending
[4:22:37] my time at the whiteboard. All right.
[4:22:41] And that concludes this this portion of
[4:22:44] the meeting. Council, I would look for a
[4:22:46] motion to adjourn to a close session in
[4:22:50] the summit conference room to discuss
[4:22:52] pending or reasonably imminent
[4:22:53] litigation, the character or
[4:22:54] professional competence of an individual
[4:22:56] or the purchase and le or lease of real
[4:22:59] property.
[4:23:00] >> So moved.
[4:23:01] >> Right. Thank you, Council Member Kilpac.
[4:23:03] Is there a second?
[4:23:04] >> Second.
[4:23:04] >> Right. Thank you. Second. Who?
[4:23:08] Oh, okay.
[4:23:09] >> M. I
[4:23:11] >> Okay. And so I go ahead and I'll vote I.
[4:23:14] Council member Millet.
[4:23:14] >> I I
[4:23:16] >> I.
[4:23:17] >> Council member Mikum.
[4:23:19] >> I
[4:23:21] >> And you already voted I. All right.