[0:08] like to welcome you to our work session
[0:11] today of the Warm City Council. Uh we
[0:14] have is everybody zooming in? Is
[0:18] everybody on? We have council. Okay. So
[0:23] we have council members, Kilpac, Neil
[0:27] Stein all um joining us virtually
[0:32] and we welcome them and we welcome you
[0:34] all here personally. So we'll go ahead
[0:37] and
[0:39] start with our first item. It's Utah
[0:41] County Major Crimes Update, fiveminute
[0:44] presentation, fivem minutee Q&A, and our
[0:46] presenters are our uh police chief BJ
[0:49] Robinson and Lieutenant Justin Gordon,
[0:52] the UCMC um field director. Welcome.
[0:55] >> Thank you.
[0:56] Mayor and Council. Um Justin
[1:00] Gordon works for the sheriff's office
[1:01] and he's the field director for Utah
[1:04] County Major Crime Task Force. Uh
[1:06] Lieutenant Phil Anderson is an ORM
[1:08] lieutenant. He's the director
[1:11] our task force. He's on vacation or he
[1:13] would be sitting here talking to you
[1:14] today. So, um second fiddle to that. Uh
[1:19] just want to kind of educate and talk to
[1:22] you about our task force. Um it's been
[1:25] on for over two decades. Uh our task
[1:29] force uh the fiduciary of the task force
[1:31] has been with Orland for a majority of
[1:34] that time, just over two decades. Uh and
[1:37] so we work a lot with Brandon and in
[1:40] finance and and things like that to uh
[1:43] you know make the task force run. The uh
[1:45] just this slide is just you know our
[1:48] logo and badge uh for our task force. It
[1:50] shows the agencies from Utah County u
[1:53] the federal partners um that are part of
[1:56] our task force. And so some agencies uh
[1:59] don't have any officers that participate
[2:02] in it. Um some of the larger agencies
[2:04] like us, Provo, um American Fork County
[2:07] have multiple uh officers and uh
[2:10] supervisors that provide support to the
[2:12] task force. Uh so what does the task
[2:15] force do? Uh their primary
[2:17] responsibility is uh drug trafficking
[2:20] organizations and uh drug enforcement uh
[2:23] around you know that affects our county
[2:25] and cities. um gang in enhance gang
[2:29] enforcement uh when needed and then any
[2:32] type of major crime or major incident
[2:34] that occurs where a police agency uh
[2:36] needs extra manpower or I as a chief say
[2:40] hey we need some extra manpower in this
[2:42] type of investigation uh then I would
[2:45] contact uh either Justin or Phil and and
[2:48] request u them to come and help and so
[2:53] that's our county on a map and just kind
[2:55] of shows a few of the the numbers
[2:58] associated with our our partners kind of
[3:00] the makeup of what it is. Uh we are
[3:02] grant funded. Uh there is a state grant
[3:05] that's a CCJJ grant and then a federal H
[3:08] highaida grant highintensity drug
[3:09] trafficking area. Uh then we are one of
[3:13] how many in Utah? I want to say three or
[3:17] four uh different H highaida agencies in Utah. And then the city assessment.
[3:22] So each year, uh, the city's assessed,
[3:26] um, kind of a, um, let's say a fee, just
[3:30] to keep the lights on type of a thing
[3:31] that helps go, uh, for overtime,
[3:34] training, equipment, um, things like
[3:37] that. And that's population based. Um,
[3:39] and that goes up incrementally every so often. Um,
[3:45] and so when I was a younger cop, um, and
[3:51] was a sergeant and I was assigned to the
[3:52] task force in the early 2000s into 2010,
[3:58] uh, the big drug, uh, that was causing
[4:00] our community's problems was meth. And
[4:03] then fast forward to when I was the
[4:05] director in Phil's spot in 27209, it was
[4:08] heroin. Uh fast forward to the last
[4:12] several years and it's now fentanyl. Um
[4:15] and so this just shows and highlights
[4:17] some of the fentanyl seizures year to
[4:19] date from 2025 until current of this is
[4:22] what's coming into our community. Um
[4:25] this, you know, we live in a wonderful
[4:28] place and a wonderful county. Uh we have
[4:31] major drug problems and major drug
[4:33] trafficking organizations that operate
[4:35] in our state and in our county. And so
[4:38] it's not just your
[4:41] uh local dealer uh that you may envision
[4:44] or may see on on a street corner. Uh but
[4:47] these are organizations that are
[4:49] operating in our communities. Uh that
[4:52] part of our uh task force is is is
[4:55] focused on they also focus on, you know,
[4:57] the the neighborhood problems. um but
[5:00] their primary goal is to disrupt uh
[5:04] major drug trafficking organizations.
[5:07] And so those are some just some numbers
[5:10] to throw at you to kind of not shock and
[5:12] awe but to realize the good work that
[5:14] they are doing on a continual basis. Um
[5:20] trying to think of where else to go with
[5:22] some of the mostly I wanted to answer
[5:23] any questions that you may have uh
[5:25] regarding uh the task force or uh what
[5:28] they do. Um
[5:31] but uh
[5:33] one of the things that I appreciate
[5:35] about the task force is when we have
[5:37] like a
[5:39] would say either a homicide or a uh
[5:44] um
[5:45] not more than a missing person but
[5:47] something that where time is of the
[5:49] essence where we need to find a suspect.
[5:52] Um, you know, go back to the the slide
[5:55] before. They bring 38 detectives to bear
[5:58] like that. And they are all highly
[6:00] trained and highly efficient at
[6:02] surveillance, following people. Uh, most
[6:05] for the most part undetected um, and
[6:09] being able to bring a lot of manpower to
[6:11] bear on a incident and support. And I've
[6:14] seen that time and time again in our own
[6:16] agency in ORM and throughout the county
[6:19] of where the task force comes to as a
[6:21] force multiplier to an agency to help
[6:24] with that investigation. Um, and that's
[6:27] one of the other beauties that I
[6:28] appreciate about our task force
[6:30] appreciate about our county of being a
[6:32] chief in this county is the cooperation
[6:34] that we enjoy amongst other agencies uh
[6:38] to help one another out. Um and I think
[6:42] the our task force has operated for
[6:45] decades uh under that same understanding
[6:49] that team effort. Um and it continues
[6:52] on. And so
[6:55] any questions or anything that you would
[6:56] want to add?
[6:59] >> He's here to help and also answer the
[7:02] questions that I don't know. [laughter]
[7:05] » Any questions?
[7:06] >> Um just curious that I mean the amount
[7:08] of seizures is
[7:11] Uh, amazing.
[7:13] Do we have any kind of a I mean a sense
[7:16] of how much of that is getting through
[7:19] that we're not
[7:21] that we're unaware of or that that is
[7:23] just sneaking through somehow.
[7:26] Um, those are I mean that that just
[7:28] blows me away.
[7:30] >> Yeah. So
[7:30] >> that dollar amount,
[7:32] >> not only the dollar amount, but that in
[7:34] 2025 that is 2 million 2 and a.5 million
[7:37] pills of fentanyl. That's how we
[7:40] generally see the fentanyl is in pill
[7:41] form. Um they make it look like other
[7:44] pills, but uh yeah, we're not getting it
[7:48] all. Uh our goal is to, but we aren't.
[7:51] Um we get into these organizations and
[7:54] we we do a take down after our
[7:56] investigation. Uh we shut these
[7:59] organizations down for just a few weeks
[8:01] and then they send up more people, more
[8:03] groups. They're they're cartel related
[8:06] for the most part. That's where they're
[8:07] getting their supplies from. they're here and that's who we're after.
[8:12] Um but yeah, we're um we're not getting
[8:16] it all, but we're trying our best. Uh
[8:18] year to date this year, we've had 30
[8:21] federal indictments just from our
[8:23] investigations, which is is huge. Um
[8:26] that's guys that will guys and gals that
[8:28] will take minimum mandatory sentences in
[8:31] the federal system for distributing
[8:33] drugs around Utah County. By comparison,
[8:37] when I was there maybe 10 years ago and
[8:39] thought we were doing a job, we were
[8:40] happy if we got double digits of federal
[8:43] indictments in a calendar year. And so
[8:45] just the the
[8:49] high level of work that they're doing uh
[8:51] for the feds to to take on a
[8:53] prosecution, everything needs to be
[8:55] buttoned up and uh eyes dotted, tees
[8:58] crossed at the utmost. And uh they're performing at that level.
[9:04] Any any other? Yes.
[9:06] >> So, I tooured the
[9:09] um can't remember what it's called up
[9:11] there by the National Guard, the federal
[9:14] um
[9:17] >> by the point of the mouth.
[9:18] >> Yeah.
[9:19] >> Uh are you talking about the
[9:22] >> NSA facility?
[9:22] >> NSA.
[9:24] >> Yeah.
[9:24] >> On your other slide, you had their name
[9:26] at the bottom, right?
[9:28] >> HSI
[9:30] National Guard counter.
[9:31] >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, do you interface
[9:34] with them much?
[9:35] >> Yeah, we have two National Guard
[9:38] counterdrug
[9:40] um,
[9:42] analysts. Yeah, they're assigned to our
[9:43] task force full-time.
[9:45] >> It bounces back between one and two. If
[9:47] they get down numbers, they have to pull
[9:49] one, but right now we have two, and
[9:51] they're doing behind the scenes work,
[9:54] uh, as we, you know, come up with
[9:57] suspect names, plates, addresses.
[9:59] They're they're figuring out stuff for
[10:01] us to tie to this investigation.
[10:04] >> And how many it so I'm I'm trying to
[10:05] figure out county most of what you do is
[10:08] you're in the county. So if things spill
[10:10] over to other
[10:11] >> So we good question.
[10:13] >> We are working to make Utah County a
[10:16] better place. However, if people are
[10:17] dealing drugs here, we will chase them
[10:19] wherever they reside. We spend a lot of
[10:22] time outside our county, but we we look
[10:26] for the ties to our county to keep them
[10:28] out of here.
[10:30] >> And can I just say we're not Happy
[10:32] Valley. We are we're happy here, but
[10:36] there's stuff going on here.
[10:37] >> Absolutely.
[10:38] >> And we appreciate what you're doing.
[10:39] >> Thank you.
[10:43] » So,
[10:44] it sounds like you rotate officers
[10:47] through. How does that is it how does
[10:50] that all
[10:51] >> it be different from agency to agency
[10:53] here in ORM? Uh we usually rotate them
[10:56] around every three to five years uh
[10:58] based upon need and and how they're
[11:00] performing, what needs we have back at
[11:02] the at the home agency. Maybe they
[11:05] promote out of that. Um maybe it's just
[11:07] their time. Um there's there's a it
[11:10] there's a lot of different philosophies
[11:12] on that. Um it does take time. It's a
[11:14] very specialized uh assignment down
[11:16] there and so you need to leave them in
[11:19] there marinating for a while till they
[11:21] get good at it. Um and so you don't want
[11:23] to pull them out just as they're
[11:24] starting to get good and getting
[11:25] traction and then pull them out. So
[11:27] there's there's kind of a sweet spot and
[11:29] sometimes that depends. Sometimes they
[11:30] benefit from uh timing and needs and
[11:33] they're in there for four or five years
[11:34] and sometimes not so much. Um but it
[11:37] does vary from agency to agency on how
[11:39] they choose to rotate uh officers
[11:41] through. So, is that how it works? We
[11:44] have like 30, you said 38 detectives.
[11:46] Are they all 38 detectives are full-time
[11:48] with the UCMC, but ORM sends X number
[11:52] and they're full-time over there. Then
[11:53] they don't necessarily work here.
[11:55] >> So, ORM, we have the field director, the
[11:57] lieutenant, we have two sergeants, and
[11:59] then we have three detectives uh that
[12:01] are assigned there full-time. And so,
[12:04] over the years is um we used to have
[12:07] four and I want to say that was
[12:11] 200
[12:12] nine. Uh we used to have four
[12:15] detectives. Um but just manpower and
[12:18] restructuring sometimes when we're down
[12:19] on patrol. Uh don't like to pull them
[12:21] back from task force uh to come back to
[12:24] patrol. Um but if things got to bare
[12:26] bones then uh we have to staff patrol.
[12:29] So that would be a reason why.
[12:35] » Thank you. Thank you for your service
[12:37] and thank you for your work on this.
[12:38] Appreciate
[12:39] >> your support with this program. I always
[12:41] like to give a shout out to Brandon
[12:42] because uh he helps us uh quite a bit
[12:45] keeping our financials in order and
[12:46] helping us with things and so we try to
[12:48] make that lift as easy as possible but
[12:51] it is a lift nonetheless. Uh so we
[12:53] appreciate ORM being the fiduciary of
[12:55] the task force and it very much is a
[12:57] benefit uh to the task force.
[12:59] >> Thank you guys.
[13:00] >> Thank you.
[13:04] The next item on the agenda is a
[13:06] presentation by Tagert Bowen, city
[13:08] engineer, capital construction project
[13:11] update. 20 minute presentation,
[13:13] 10-minute.
[13:15] There's Tiger. Hello, Tiger.
[13:18] >> Hi.
[13:20] was passes. I don't know if I have
[13:21] enough.
[13:48] It's too scary. All
[13:55] right. I've been asked to provide a
[13:57] presentation
[14:00] for CIP projects stands for capital
[14:03] improvement projects. And I thought it'd
[14:06] be good to have this map just as a
[14:07] reference and then get it later and
[14:12] river look at it while I'm talking
[14:17] up on the
[14:21] screen here showing all the projects.
[14:24] These aren't all construction projects
[14:25] going on right now, but everything that
[14:28] we're either working on coming up in the
[14:29] future or under construction.
[14:33] got them numbered there like uh for
[14:35] example
[14:37] number one open the map on the left side
[14:40] there near 8 north points over to the blue color which is a project Lance
[14:46] excavations working on and
[14:50] just to provide better clarity on the
[14:52] map it's not pointing to every blue but
[14:54] if you look at the different blue areas
[14:55] they're in the middle those are also
[14:57] lands number six points to project that
[15:01] silver spur's working on you can see the
[15:02] other green areas there in the middle.
[15:05] That's part of our tour project. So, got
[15:08] a lot going on. It'd be really hard in
[15:10] just a short time I have to go through
[15:12] every project and talk about everything
[15:14] we're doing, but there is a lot going
[15:15] on. Coordinate.
[15:18] And you can see there the numbering
[15:20] number 1 through 12 in construction.
[15:24] 13 through 18 are projects that have
[15:26] been completed this year.
[15:29] 19 through 28 are currently in the bid
[15:32] award process where we're working with
[15:33] contractors to either get them started
[15:36] on construction this year or they're
[15:38] just been advertised and we're looking
[15:42] at the the proposals and bids received.
[15:46] 29 through 40 are upcoming future
[15:49] projects that were in our design process
[15:52] with our team working hard on those
[15:55] upcoming design projects. And then 41 in
[15:58] the 40s is the mag dot projects that are
[16:01] either coming up or most of those are
[16:04] under construction the big uh road
[16:07] widening type projects on
[16:10] mostly UD do
[16:13] » and mayor as as Tagert said this is as
[16:17] you can see there's so much going on
[16:19] that they're doing we don't have a lot
[16:21] of time to get into detail of each one
[16:25] this is intended to be an overview, give
[16:27] you a flavor. But if there are certain
[16:29] projects that you would like more
[16:31] information on, we can come back and get
[16:34] into more detail on uh those projects.
[16:44] » I wanted to just go over a little bit
[16:47] quickly what a CIP project entails. A
[16:50] lot of times we just see the
[16:52] construction going on. We see the roads
[16:54] being saved, but there's a lot of
[16:57] planning that goes on and all of that. I
[16:59] just want to go through quickly the
[17:01] phases of a capital improvement project.
[17:03] In the beginning, we have our pre-bid
[17:05] phase, which would be our staff's
[17:08] meeting with whoever has requested the
[17:11] project, whether it's public works,
[17:13] fire, police, or any of the departments
[17:16] in ORM that have a need or we're meeting
[17:18] with them trying to understand the scope
[17:19] of the project. We come up with a
[17:22] concept, put together a cost estimate,
[17:24] and then work closely with them to start
[17:26] kind of preparing, fine-tuning what that
[17:29] project entails. Look at right away. We
[17:31] have our city surveyor who will look at
[17:34] impacts to right away, whether we need
[17:36] to purchase right away, get easements.
[17:39] Our designers will will work with any
[17:42] stakeholders whether that's different
[17:45] agencies,
[17:46] property owners, public works and then
[17:51] outlines and specifications.
[17:55] Uh as we create the final plans, stamp
[17:57] those specifications together outlining
[18:00] what we'll be fitting for the project
[18:02] and advertise it.
[18:04] Maybe a proposal or bid award. put that
[18:06] through our online bidding process on
[18:08] Bonfire,
[18:10] the website we use. And then after we
[18:13] receive bids, we review those. We look
[18:15] at references. We make sure the bids are
[18:18] quantities are accurate. We come with We
[18:21] look at references.
[18:23] We put together
[18:25] contract agreements,
[18:28] make sure legal's good with that. We'll
[18:30] set up pre-construction meetings and
[18:33] make sure to look at submittals. We get
[18:35] into the construction phase where kind
[18:38] of all-encompassing for every one of
[18:39] these items is project management where
[18:42] we have a great team that we've got our
[18:45] design engineers that have been involved
[18:47] with planning from the very beginning.
[18:48] And then the construction engineers will
[18:50] come in with their experience and team
[18:52] up to manage the project. And they do a
[18:54] great job making sure
[18:58] following our city standards. So provide
[19:01] uh regular inspections making sure
[19:05] uh plans and standards are uh all our
[19:09] standards are being met. And then in the
[19:12] completion part they'll they'll verify
[19:14] that those items have been completed
[19:17] and then we have our payment performance
[19:18] bon making sure to
[19:22] uh have our warranty in there as well. I
[19:24] just wanted to highlight a few projects.
[19:26] We got some pictures of Dave Spencer
[19:29] over here. He would love this one. This
[19:31] is 950 North. As you can see,
[19:34] >> that one took four years.
[19:38] » That was just me for a year.
[19:41] >> It's been years in the making.
[19:43] [laughter]
[19:44] This is a picture of looking uh west
[19:49] on 950 North Lance putting the water
[19:52] line in. And then
[19:55] >> this is in the same place. You can see
[19:56] that wooden fence on the left. So, same
[20:00] location. There's the you can see the
[20:02] waterline patch there.
[20:04] And then this is BHI who we hired to do
[20:07] the roads project after Lance did their
[20:09] project doing the reconstruct.
[20:12] There's the
[20:14] paving.
[20:16] It's another project that's been going
[20:18] on on
[20:19] um I don't know the number of it on
[20:22] there. Center Street 12 West and then
[20:24] also 8 North 12 West. They've done a
[20:28] great job with making it look better.
[20:30] There's a picture of what it used to
[20:32] look like. There's a grading of that
[20:34] area. This is right off of 12 West and
[20:37] Center Street.
[20:39] >> What it looks like now.
[20:42] It looks so good now. I I hope it stays
[20:44] like that cuz it's it's hard to keep,
[20:47] you know, the weeds out of that type of
[20:48] rock. But it looks really good. It's
[20:50] your better tin. [laughter]
[20:55] » We're on it.
[20:56] >> You're on it.
[20:57] >> Really good. So, this is just south of
[21:00] there. What it used to look like. That's
[21:02] including
[21:04] it looks like now.
[21:08] This is the fire train facility down
[21:10] there near Johnson property 1600 West
[21:13] was a farm not farfield.
[21:18] Got the building going up, the two fire
[21:20] burn buildings in the background.
[21:23] There's the curb and gutter going in.
[21:26] Kind of what it looks like now. And then
[21:27] there's the the fence and landscaping.
[21:32] It's been a great great project.
[21:37] This is a project done by Eker. You can
[21:40] see on the plan I believe it was snow
[21:42] team that they put in a storm doris.
[21:45] This serves as a storm drain and also as
[21:48] a flush line for the well.
[21:53] And this is just a picture looking north
[21:58] line under the canal pipes.
[22:02] And that's what it looks like now.
[22:07] This is our concrete project was done
[22:10] earlier this year. They uh installed a
[22:13] speed table on 16 South So that's what
[22:15] it looked like before was done during
[22:18] the project. And then that's what it
[22:19] looks like now.
[22:24] ADA ramp.
[22:27] This project's currently going on. It's
[22:30] a micro construction. This is a water
[22:33] line just off of 1700 South and State
[22:35] Street.
[22:38] This is a picture of the installing
[22:41] storm drain line through the um
[22:46] business. I believe it's
[22:48] State
[22:50] >> down there. This is just off of about
[22:54] 18th South and State Street looking
[22:56] east. You can see that flip brick
[22:58] building there. And that's what it looks
[23:00] like now. So, they did a really good job
[23:03] paving that striping's back. You can see
[23:06] under that car the panel there's a
[23:13] pave.
[23:15] This is a project down at Lakeside
[23:18] Sports Park going on right now. And
[23:22] that's what it looks like.
[23:25] See from the curb and gutter alignment
[23:27] it's moved to the east. So now lines up
[23:30] with the intersection to the south.
[23:37] This project, you're familiar with this,
[23:38] is fort southwest pump station Wall
[23:41] House, which has been ongoing for years
[23:43] and it's
[23:45] scheduled to be completed, I believe,
[23:47] next year.
[23:50] That's their part is a bid process.
[23:53] >> Just got them back. Just
[23:55] >> got bids. So, that one's coming up.
[23:57] Future project.
[23:59] This one is just I see the fence going
[24:02] up out here. It's just starting.
[24:05] I just saw the trees coming down.
[24:07] >> That was sad.
[24:09] >> There's a little melancholy watching
[24:10] them go down. I'll be honest with you.
[24:13] >> Oh,
[24:15] but I'll trade that for the fence.
[24:17] [laughter]
[24:18] >> I'll get over it.
[24:21] >> Well, we'll we'll replace them 1.5 to
[24:24] one. So, we'll put back in more that we
[24:26] take down. trees.
[24:29] There's just a site plan of the you know
[24:31] what that will look like.
[24:35] Now we're working with Avenue
[24:37] Consultants on a center street widening
[24:38] project between Geneva and 915 and that
[24:41] we've been working on that for for a
[24:43] while with them. That's MAG project
[24:50] or update.
[24:52] Would you I know you said this already,
[24:54] but would you reorient us on what the
[24:56] different colors mean in the map?
[25:00] Yes.
[25:03] So, if you look at the map, like the
[25:05] yellow color, they're just related to
[25:09] different projects. Yellow's for micro.
[25:11] So, you'd have to find the number that
[25:13] points to. Like, if you look down at um
[25:17] on the right side of the map, number 10
[25:20] points to that yellow, they're on eight
[25:22] South on the very side.
[25:25] >> Yep.
[25:26] >> And then look here on on the list.
[25:27] Number 10 is going to be micro. So,
[25:29] anything yellow in there would be
[25:30] related to that.
[25:32] Okay.
[25:33] >> So, these colors on this map are related
[25:35] to different types of street
[25:37] maintenance. Yeah. Nice.
[25:41] >> Yeah, the green are related to sewer.
[25:43] Then
[25:44] >> purple for storm drain and blue for
[25:46] water.
[25:53] » And I need to
[25:56] thank Tagert for putting this together.
[25:59] As you can see, there's a tremendous
[26:01] amount of work going on in the city. Not
[26:05] just projects that have recently been done, but we're in the process of
[26:09] doing and in the process of designing
[26:12] and bidding. The vast majority of the
[26:15] projects that we do in the city are done
[26:18] inhouse by Tagert. Tagert in effect runs
[26:23] probably one of the best engineering
[26:26] firms in the state.
[26:28] >> We design uh these projects. We work
[26:31] with public works and Reed and his group
[26:34] on their needs. We take the we
[26:36] coordinate with them. We look at the
[26:38] projects. We design them in house. We
[26:41] bid them out. We hire a contractor and
[26:45] we manage the construction project all
[26:48] in house. A lot of communities don't do
[26:51] that. The advantage that that gives us
[26:55] is we're very nimble. And if we get in
[26:58] the middle of a project and a uh
[27:02] different priority rises to the surface,
[27:04] we can quickly pivot. We we don't have
[27:09] uh I don't ever have a conversation with
[27:11] Tagard about, well, Gary, that's a
[27:13] change order that we're going to charge
[27:17] [laughter]
[27:19] because we're doing it inhouse and it
[27:22] gives us a lot of flexibility.
[27:25] It also saves us money in the long run.
[27:28] A lot of communities, alls they're doing
[27:30] are managing contracts. Believe it or
[27:32] not, some construction companies, uh,
[27:35] alls they have is somebody, uh, they'll
[27:37] have a person on staff who does nothing
[27:39] but look for change orders. So, we're
[27:41] able to, since we know the project, our
[27:44] engineers will be working closely with
[27:46] the police department on theirs. So, we
[27:49] do this across the board. It's really I I know I'm going on and on, but too
[27:55] bad. You have to listen to this because
[27:57] >> Oh, this is [laughter]
[27:58] helpful.
[27:59] >> Helpful
[28:00] >> because uh Tagger leads truly one of the
[28:03] best engineering firms in the state and
[28:06] we do this inhouse and it's a great
[28:09] benefit to the city and to the taxpayer
[28:13] for how we do it.
[28:16] up quality work.
[28:17] >> Yes.
[28:18] >> But at a very comparatively inexpensive
[28:22] cost
[28:25] » and municipal prices
[28:28] >> and there's usually not the right hand
[28:29] not knowing what the left hand's doing
[28:31] because
[28:32] >> same hand.
[28:34] [laughter]
[28:36] » I got to give a shout out to our team.
[28:38] If you if you don't know who's in the
[28:40] engineering division, go meet them. Get
[28:42] to know them. We've got a great group of
[28:45] work hard. They do the behind the scenes
[28:47] and they they're awesome to work with.
[28:49] So you don't know them, go meet them and
[28:53] get to know them. Really
[28:54] >> the conversation will last all like
[28:56] three minutes because they're talking
[28:59] [laughter]
[29:01] they got somewhere to
[29:03] [laughter]
[29:05] be point and to tagger in terms of
[29:08] teamwork.
[29:08] >> You got one other picture too I want to
[29:10] show that's questions about
[29:12] >> [laughter]
[29:13] >> Is that right?
[29:16] >> That guy.
[29:16] >> This is where Ryan came from.
[29:18] >> That's lane gray is the focus.
[29:21] >> Not even that was taken yesterday.
[29:23] [laughter]
[29:26] » And this is when Ryan actually worked
[29:29] [laughter]
[29:31] that day
[29:32] >> actually.
[29:41] So, uh,
[29:43] >> on one of those pictures, we talked
[29:45] about 950 north and there were multiple
[29:47] pictures there because there were
[29:50] multiple, uh, kind of teamwork, working
[29:52] together, left hand and right hand
[29:54] needing to know and coordinate because
[29:57] something could start out as a streets
[30:01] project and then also turn into a water
[30:03] project and a storm drain project and a
[30:06] sidewalk and trail and and
[30:08] [clears throat]
[30:09] landscaping project very quickly and
[30:12] easily. So
[30:13] >> this one right here, Brian.
[30:15] >> So if if each of these services and
[30:19] infrastructure subjects were disparit,
[30:22] then yeah, there would be conflicts and
[30:25] we would run into the possibility of,
[30:28] you know, redoing a waterline one one
[30:32] month and then the next month realize we
[30:35] need to go back and do some more and
[30:36] clean up the road all over again. So,
[30:40] >> what you're saying, Bren, is exactly why
[30:42] that took a little longer is we had to
[30:45] coordinate all of those improvements and
[30:47] funding for the large water tank project
[30:51] uh was was needed. So, we had to wait
[30:54] until we had enough funds to do that.
[30:56] So, we're glad we got it.
[30:58] >> So, what you're saying, Reed, is we
[31:00] should go tell that to commissioner
[31:02] elect Dave Spencer. [laughter]
[31:04] Good lesson.
[31:07] Mayor, may I also point out this is the
[31:10] uh plan, part of the plan for the police
[31:14] station,
[31:15] uh the fence around it. If you can just
[31:18] see all of the comments and how
[31:20] complicated, you think, oh, we're just
[31:22] going to put in a fence. It's not that
[31:25] simple. There's so much work goes on
[31:28] behind the scenes. And so that the
[31:31] public knows we treat ourselves just
[31:34] like a developer who would come in and
[31:37] develop in the city. We go through the
[31:40] same process. Uh so in in Taggard shop
[31:45] have an engineering design group who
[31:48] comes in and designs projects and we
[31:51] have a private development group that
[31:54] reviews the work of private developers
[31:57] when they come in. Our plans go through
[32:00] the same process that we go anybody in
[32:03] the community who would develop or build
[32:05] an ORM, we go through the same process
[32:07] ourselves as we ask them to do. And so
[32:12] we have lots of comments and so we work
[32:15] with a client to make sure their needs
[32:17] are met. We work to make sure all uh
[32:22] development issues are resolved and the
[32:25] public's protected.
[32:30] I have a thing I noticed I read an op-ed
[32:32] today. I think it was in this weekend's
[32:34] paper and it was it was pointed towards
[32:37] municipal
[32:38] officials and it was really interesting
[32:40] because it talked about you know we're
[32:42] always there for the ribbon cutings and
[32:44] for the you know celebrations of
[32:46] something new, new water tanks, new
[32:49] whatever. Um, but it's also important to
[32:51] be there for the maintenance to keep
[32:53] those in that infrastructure maintained
[32:56] and taken care of and continuing to
[32:59] serve the purpose that that ribbon was
[33:01] cut for, you know, and I've been to
[33:03] cities, I think we all have, locations,
[33:05] areas that haven't necessarily done
[33:08] that. I think I really appreciate your
[33:10] forethought. you're you're juggling the
[33:12] finances to make that work because that
[33:16] is so important to keep a city at this
[33:19] same level of of goodness. I you know
[33:21] the the city who shall not be named, but
[33:23] I go to a doctor heading up north a
[33:25] little bit and I know right when I'm in
[33:27] that city when I drive on their roads.
[33:29] So totally appreciate all that you guys
[33:31] do and and yeah behind the scenes this
[33:36] is so important to save money for our
[33:38] taxpayers.
[33:40] Thank you.
[33:42] >> Any other questions or comments? Council
[33:45] may
[33:47] >> do you convey our appreciation to your
[33:49] team as well?
[33:54] » Next item on the agenda is a general
[33:59] plan process update by Jared Hall, our
[34:03] planning director. 15 minute
[34:04] presentation, 15 minute Q&A. So, while
[34:08] Jared's coming up, uh we started doing
[34:10] an update of the general plan uh quite a
[34:13] while ago, as you may be aware. And uh
[34:18] as the planning commission uh well over
[34:22] a year ago got into it, um I think they
[34:25] found it's a little more complicated to
[34:27] do uh a general plan update and then uh
[34:32] than they may have thought. And we also
[34:35] had then with on the planning commission
[34:38] uh some illnesses and resignations and
[34:42] things like that that came up. We now
[34:45] have a uh planning commission that's uh
[34:48] up and running with quite a few new
[34:50] members. And so we've been working with
[34:54] them and we wanted to come in and give
[34:56] you an update on the general plan
[35:00] process and where we are and where we
[35:03] will be. And we think we're on a good
[35:05] trajectory.
[35:06] >> Okay, great.
[35:07] >> Well, Jared,
[35:08] >> thanks. Thanks for the thanks for the
[35:09] intro and I will uh I'll jump into it
[35:11] and then leave plenty of time for for
[35:14] questions. Um and you can go talk to the
[35:16] engineers. They're they're chattier than
[35:18] you think. [laughter]
[35:20] With Sammy every day,
[35:22] Ro is a conversationalist.
[35:24] [laughter]
[35:27] » General plan. So I did the first slide
[35:28] is a timeline just an idea of what we think we can do if we if we um
[35:34] if we maintain a couple of areas of
[35:36] focus and and uh and really and really
[35:39] pin ourselves down. Um and we can come
[35:42] back to this later again too after we've
[35:43] talked about what goes into a general
[35:44] plan and kind of where we where we see
[35:46] it as a group uh needing to refocus. Uh
[35:49] during August and September and October,
[35:52] we need to be able to draft what we'd
[35:54] like to do. We have some chapters that
[35:56] are drafted and reviewed um that need
[35:58] some more work and some that just need
[35:59] um filling in. Um we can come back to
[36:02] that as well, but we'd like to keep you
[36:03] updated on it. So, we would plan on
[36:05] updating the PC on where the draft is on
[36:08] the 2nd of No of 2nd of uh September and
[36:11] then you all on the 22nd. U we could do
[36:14] that in work sessions or whatever works
[36:16] out, but we want to be drafting during
[36:18] August, September, and October. The plan
[36:20] then would be to have that full draft
[36:22] ready for review by you as a council and
[36:26] the commission and key um key staff like
[36:29] the directors and legal public works
[36:31] everybody so that we're not fouling
[36:33] anything up um between the 1st of
[36:35] November, the beginning of November and
[36:37] beginning of the holidays. uh that would
[36:40] let us reddraft with edits uh during the
[36:43] holidays and then be back in for
[36:46] adoption at public hearings in January
[36:48] and February. Um we we think we can do
[36:51] that if we pin down and draft during
[36:53] these next few months uh the remainder
[36:55] of what needs to be done and we can come
[36:58] back and talk about a little more. But
[37:00] um just for starters to talk about just
[37:03] as a reminder the general plan these are
[37:05] kind of the three
[37:07] sort of guiding principles for the draft
[37:10] work that we we need to get back to. The
[37:12] general plan needs to be general. It
[37:14] should be a highle planning document.
[37:16] It's not the same thing as zoning. We
[37:18] we've talked about that and I know
[37:19] you're all aware, but uh just as a
[37:21] reminder for for the new commissioners
[37:22] as well, we we need to talk about this.
[37:24] The general plan is a highle general
[37:26] document. Um one of the goals um when we
[37:30] first started doing this
[37:33] at the end of 2024, talking about it and
[37:35] really getting started in 2025 was to
[37:37] align our general plan with the city's
[37:39] area of focus and goals that had been
[37:41] identified at that time. And then we
[37:44] wanted to keep the focus of this general
[37:46] plan on identifying objectives and
[37:47] strategies. And the way that I would um
[37:49] the example I would give is to remember
[37:51] that general plans are not binding. Um
[37:53] they're broad frameworks. And I I think
[37:55] of it as this example is the one that I
[37:56] always use. Connectivity is an idea that
[37:58] belongs in a general plan. The idea that
[38:00] in general connecting streets is usually
[38:03] better uh for pedestrian safety, for for
[38:07] efficient safety, and for vehicle safety
[38:09] as well. But it's the general plan is
[38:11] not where um the tables about the
[38:13] allowed block lengths in different zones
[38:15] belong or how long a terminal street can
[38:17] be. For example, that that kind of
[38:18] detail we won't have the data to support
[38:21] uh those kinds of decisions in a general
[38:23] plan. Anyway, it should just identify
[38:24] that connectivity belongs in certain
[38:27] areas or is more important in area B
[38:29] than area A, for example. That's kind of
[38:32] the the framework of a general plan and
[38:34] the purpose of it. Um the the things
[38:37] that we took out of the goals and
[38:38] policies that the council had identified
[38:40] uh to get into the general plan were
[38:42] these safe and livable neighborhoods.
[38:44] And there are some subcategories there
[38:45] to promote approaches for owner
[38:47] occupancy. Uh balancing housing options
[38:50] uh preserving character of existing
[38:52] neighborhoods and planning for the
[38:53] development of the heart of downtown to
[38:54] enhance our community life. um thriving
[38:57] in balanced business environments,
[38:59] protecting strong economic foundations,
[39:01] creating opportunities for small
[39:02] businesses, exploring opportunities like
[39:04] incubator spaces and business
[39:06] development programs, and fostering
[39:08] connections with Utah Valley University
[39:10] was one of the things that came up
[39:11] early. And then dependable
[39:13] infrastructure, timely updates to the
[39:14] master transportation plan, efforts to
[39:16] improve connection of trails, adopting
[39:18] an active transportation master plan
[39:20] that's in the works now, too. And then
[39:21] continuing efforts for responsible water
[39:23] use redevelopment projects. And that
[39:25] water chapter is that was referencing
[39:27] the water chapter and the water chapter
[39:28] has been adopted as part of the plan.
[39:31] Now
[39:33] um a quick idea just these are some of
[39:35] the plans and efforts that that get
[39:37] referenced or should be referenced by
[39:39] the general plan. For example, when we
[39:42] say that we don't have we don't have the
[39:44] data right now for a big discussion
[39:46] about what block lengths ought to be to
[39:48] promote safety or connectivity or what
[39:50] have you. But different plans uh as they
[39:52] get updated could give us that kind of
[39:54] data. So that's the kind of thing that
[39:55] needs to be referenced. The heart of
[39:56] downtown uh was identified. The active
[39:58] transportation plan, a comprehensive
[40:00] housing study is probably needed at some
[40:03] point. There's not a lot of good
[40:04] planning for the south uh west area of
[40:06] the city where a lot of things are
[40:08] happening. Um quarter plans could be
[40:10] looked at. Stationary plans could be
[40:12] looked at. Neighborhood plans could be
[40:13] updated. Um and again, I just relisted
[40:17] those quarter plans because I'm just
[40:19] that that way. um three of them right
[40:22] there at the end already identified. But
[40:24] these are these are kinds of plans. Some
[40:25] of them exist or are in process right
[40:27] now, but others are ones that the
[40:28] general plan might identify as being
[40:30] needed. Uh it wouldn't provide the data
[40:33] for those. It wouldn't provide the
[40:34] funding for those. It would just call
[40:35] them out. It wouldn't even provide a
[40:36] timeline for them necessarily. It would
[40:38] just call out that they might be things
[40:39] we need to look at. And with that, the
[40:42] reason I bring this this slide up is to
[40:44] show that the the draft work that needs
[40:46] to be done on these is not impossible in
[40:48] the three months that we're planning to knock this out. Um because really
[40:53] they just need to be identified and what
[40:55] they can contribute.
[40:58] Does that make sense? So with that in
[41:00] mind, um the timeline that we're
[41:02] proposing about the general plan, the
[41:04] process in general, we're we're
[41:05] proposing that we will do the writing
[41:07] now uh the draft work. we were trying to
[41:10] do this very iterative process with the
[41:11] commission. They wanted to be very
[41:13] involved in in how it would be written
[41:15] and drafted. That that just did not
[41:17] really work out. So, as we go forward,
[41:20] we'll do that draft work ourselves and
[41:22] present it uh for review instead. Uh
[41:26] again,
[41:26] >> I guess I would then question why are
[41:28] you why do we have the uh what is that
[41:30] we're second with the planning
[41:31] commission? Should you do
[41:33] >> it be an update on where the draft is?
[41:35] So,
[41:36] >> your work meeting with [clears throat]
[41:37] us. I mean do I I thought we would pull
[41:39] the planning commission in after
[41:41] >> good
[41:42] >> had worked through it as a council and
[41:44] then pull them send to them and then
[41:47] come back to us. That's kind of what
[41:49] >> I don't expect to have all of the draft
[41:51] done on no this would just be like an
[41:52] update of where we are. So I just put
[41:54] them in and then my my brain always kind
[41:56] of because I process stuff mainly as a
[41:59] job I go from the planning commission to
[42:00] the city council but we could do them in
[42:02] the reverse order as well. We could show
[42:03] you guys where wherever we are in the
[42:05] draft as an update earlier in September
[42:08] and put on the second September planning
[42:10] commission meeting too. It doesn't it
[42:11] doesn't really doesn't affect the
[42:13] timeline.
[42:13] >> So then would you I guess I'm trying to
[42:15] figure out are we going back to the
[42:16] planning commission again? What are we
[42:17] required to do
[42:18] >> eventually? Yes. The general plan is a
[42:21] document that has to be recommended by
[42:22] the planning commission.
[42:23] >> Yeah. State law says as I remember the
[42:26] state law gives a says a planning
[42:28] commission that's one of their very
[42:29] specific responsibilities is general
[42:32] plan and so that's why I think we have
[42:34] it this ways where where the state law
[42:36] says the planning commission
[42:39] does the general plan and makes a
[42:40] recommendation to the city council
[42:42] >> they'll have to hold
[42:42] >> twice I guess is my question it looks
[42:44] like we're
[42:45] >> um do you mean
[42:46] >> planning commission twice am I reading
[42:47] that wrong
[42:48] >> these are do you mean here at the end
[42:50] >> um
[42:52] yes
[42:53] >> we're reading draft review.
[42:54] >> So,
[42:54] >> oh, draft review. So,
[42:56] >> well, it looks like it might be three
[42:58] times. I didn't see that one, but I see
[43:00] >> this would be this full draft. Sorry, I
[43:01] should be more
[43:03] >> clear. So, this would these would just
[43:05] be updates. I don't want to draft for 3
[43:06] months and then come to to the
[43:09] commission and to the council and say,
[43:10] here's the full draft. I I want to
[43:12] midway through see if we're missing any
[43:14] big marks. So, in no in
[43:18] it's one of the burr months. September.
[43:19] Thank you. Appreciate that. uh in
[43:21] September, I would bring it to both
[43:23] bodies and say, "Here's where we are in
[43:24] the draft right now. Anything going
[43:26] wrong or are we way off base with this?"
[43:28] We would finish then and then the draft
[43:30] review being available from 112, but
[43:33] that's a Monday. That's the first Monday
[43:34] of November. That date having it
[43:36] available would be the draft is
[43:37] available and we wouldn't be bringing it
[43:39] to you. We would be making we'd email it
[43:40] to you, make it available to all to the
[43:43] planning commission, city council, save
[43:45] time at that point. So, at that point,
[43:47] we're just looking for comments from
[43:48] everybody uh to get big things fixed and
[43:51] edited through the holidays.
[43:53] >> Then the ring one is January. The
[43:55] >> public hearings happen in January.
[43:58] >> I'm I'm assuming too per her per her per body just in case.
[44:02] >> Are you kind of still looking for help
[44:04] from the planning commission, city
[44:05] council for your draft
[44:06] >> for input?
[44:08] were we were literally trying with the
[44:10] first um goes at this general plan to
[44:13] have we had a public facing um it was it
[44:17] was not not easy to get to get a public
[44:19] facing uh Google Drive so that the
[44:22] commission could literally commission
[44:24] members could edit comments in or or
[44:26] make comments in the idea was for a
[44:29] council to be able to do it too. It just
[44:31] did not people don't operate that way.
[44:34] Wanted a big shared document that they
[44:36] could all participate in. It just didn't
[44:39] generate what we needed and mostly in in
[44:41] meetings and work sessions we would wind
[44:43] up talking about. We got a lot of good
[44:44] information out the work sessions and
[44:46] things but uh they weren't generating
[44:49] the necessary draft material that can be
[44:51] adopted. Lots of ideas
[44:53] >> ideas. Now, you guys already have a
[44:56] draft,
[44:57] >> right? And and part of this is we want
[44:59] to come back and make sure that the
[45:02] ideas we've heard and we're putting
[45:05] together um we'll come back with the
[45:08] council and say, "Okay, what what did we
[45:10] miss?" Because we will have invariably
[45:12] missed something or
[45:15] there needs to be a different emphasis
[45:17] one way or another on something like
[45:19] that. But we've in this iterative
[45:22] process, it was a great idea in theory
[45:26] and execution. It just didn't really
[45:28] work. It was difficult for the planning
[45:30] commission to do it this way. So, we're
[45:33] really going back to a traditional model
[45:35] where we have conversations, we get
[45:38] feedback, and then we will do the
[45:40] drafting. And by we, I the royal we
[45:43] Jared
[45:45] [laughter]
[45:48] » and Gary and Jared. Uh, can I put you on
[45:50] the spot in a public meeting? You you
[45:52] promise not to get offended at any
[45:54] feedback, input, direction, question
[45:59] from the council and planning
[46:00] commission.
[46:01] >> I've never been offended in my life.
[46:03] [laughter]
[46:05] >> I'm offended you would say that.
[46:15] At the end of the day, in a in a very
[46:18] real sense, this is the council's
[46:20] document.
[46:22] And we're here merely to help you get
[46:26] the document you want. And so,
[46:30] uh, as we go through this, we think
[46:32] we're hearing you on certain items, but
[46:35] you know how it happens. And the
[46:38] difficulty with a a, uh, council is
[46:44] sometimes you don't know for sure until
[46:48] you see a draft in front of you and then
[46:50] have some time to think about it. Um
[46:54] because the the concepts that we're
[46:56] talking about may sound fine, but as we
[46:58] put it into actual language, we want to
[47:01] make sure you feel comfortable with it,
[47:03] you're good with the direction, and
[47:05] we're fairly and accurately capturing
[47:09] the intent of the council. And then
[47:11] ultimately, as a council, you will have
[47:13] to decide and and vote on it to adopt it
[47:18] as your document. So, we're not going to
[47:20] be offended. uh we get offended in so
[47:23] easily in so many other ways but this is not one of them.
[47:28] Yes, [clears throat] council. I just
[47:29] want to just reiterate what not not
[47:32] about being offended, Miss. But in my in
[47:35] a prior chapter, I I worked as a planner
[47:38] for a community and drafted a a general
[47:41] plan and what the council wanted. And
[47:44] then when I would go and I say, "This is
[47:46] what you wanted, but you need to
[47:49] understand if this is what you want,
[47:51] then these are the different types of
[47:53] ordinances you're looking at to enact
[47:55] what you want."
[47:57] and they were like, "Oh, I don't know if
[48:01] we want to do that." So, it's it really
[48:04] is important to think not just the
[48:06] broad, but how are we going to as a
[48:08] council actually implement what what we
[48:12] want because it may be there may be some
[48:15] things that are going to make we're
[48:17] going to be pushing the envelope on some
[48:19] things maybe or not. But just just know
[48:22] that it's it's the whole package. and
[48:24] mayor along with that. So you you
[48:27] understand sure Jared and I have you
[48:30] know personal opinions maybe about
[48:32] something or how something works but at
[48:35] the end of the day what we really care
[48:37] about as staff ultimately to the council
[48:40] to help you get the document you need is
[48:43] not that we may have a suggestion of
[48:46] language or an idea of something and
[48:48] that you adopt it. that whether you do
[48:52] or not is okay with us. What we worry
[48:56] about is you adopt something and then to
[48:59] your point a year later you come to me
[49:01] and say Gary when we were talking about
[49:04] this and we adopted it or it looked like
[49:07] we might adopt it. Why didn't you tell
[49:09] me that this could be a consequence or
[49:13] these are the foreseeable
[49:16] results of that policy? That's what
[49:19] keeps us up at night. Our We want to
[49:22] make sure you have as complete
[49:26] information as you possibly can to
[49:28] understand it uh before you make a
[49:31] decision.
[49:33] >> So, this is pretty high level though,
[49:34] right?
[49:35] >> Yes.
[49:35] >> Because I mean, I'm going to use an
[49:37] example that we're all familiar with,
[49:38] right? We had our general plan and then
[49:41] we had our state street master plan,
[49:43] right? The State Street master plan had
[49:45] the general plan had some great ideas
[49:48] floating up here, right? The State
[49:50] [clears throat] Street master plan came
[49:52] down with some specificity that our
[49:54] residents were not pleased with when we
[49:55] discovered what was there. Our
[49:57] businesses were not thriving because
[49:59] they weren't allowed to remodel to the
[50:00] extent they wanted to. There were some
[50:02] unintended consequences that were
[50:04] discovered from that. So what you're
[50:07] saying is hopefully you guys will
[50:11] identify to us if we give you a
[50:13] direction you'll be able to say to us
[50:15] this is a a perceived unintended
[50:17] consequence you might want to think
[50:18] about.
[50:18] >> Yeah.
[50:19] >> Is that kind of is that a good summary
[50:20] of what you're trying to say here?
[50:22] >> Yeah. And if and if that comes up to you
[50:24] as you're reading the draft stuff. Yeah.
[50:26] We won't be if you bring that up it's
[50:27] not going to it's not going to bother us
[50:29] because we might not have thought if if
[50:31] you see it and are concerned about it.
[50:33] Definitely bring it up. The only thing
[50:34] I'm afraid of is an echo chamber. I
[50:36] don't want to write in an echo chamber.
[50:38] I'm somewhat in love with my own
[50:39] thoughts about things. I need other
[50:41] people maybe back down.
[50:44] >> It's better that way.
[50:46] >> It's kind of a planner thing.
[50:47] >> Yeah, it's probably
[50:49] that's a personality flaw we all share.
[50:53] >> All you can do is be aware of it.
[50:55] >> We sing in the shower, right? [laughter]
[50:57] We talk a lot about, you know, the ORM
[51:00] being like this big ship and you as a
[51:03] council decide which direction we want
[51:05] this big ship to go. You don't really
[51:08] need to to worry about all of the little
[51:11] gears and mechanisms in the ship that it
[51:13] takes to turn to get it in alignment
[51:16] with your direction.
[51:18] you just need to tell us at the same to
[51:20] go that way and we'll start moving that
[51:23] way and getting everything in alignment
[51:25] to go. In the meantime, they'll also
[51:27] tell you it's like, okay, if we do go
[51:29] this way, there's a big rock out there
[51:31] that may we might run into or hey, we
[51:35] don't have something down in the boiler
[51:37] in the room needs to be fixed and really
[51:39] help us do what it is that you want to
[51:41] do. And we don't need you to to
[51:44] necessarily care about those details
[51:47] because we'll do it. You just need to
[51:49] have trust in us that we'll tell you
[51:52] these things. And we don't want to get
[51:54] going down. It's like, why didn't you
[51:55] tell me that this would cause this big,
[51:58] well, you never asked. You know, we
[52:00] never want to do that. And so, we're not
[52:03] going to get offended. We just want to
[52:04] make sure the council because ultimately
[52:07] this is your document. It's not staff's.
[52:10] It's not the planning commission. It's
[52:12] your document.
[52:17] » Any other questions or thoughts? Council
[52:19] >> mayor, can I make a make a comment?
[52:22] >> Oh, we've got Yes, the voice. Yes.
[52:24] >> Thanks, Jared. This is Quinn. U just
[52:27] really grateful that you're taking the
[52:29] time and I know this takes a lot of
[52:32] thought and staff time to to make
[52:34] progress on this and it's overdue. So,
[52:36] I'm just really grateful for that. uh
[52:39] question and comments. So a question is
[52:41] h how long do you anticipate this draft
[52:43] being? I know we're trying to keep it
[52:45] pretty general, but uh what's what's
[52:47] your target length? And then secondly, I
[52:49] just encourage you to um make sure that
[52:52] the that the planning commission is
[52:54] involved every step of the way. Um I I
[52:57] know that they may not be appropriate
[52:59] drafters, but I I do think that, you
[53:02] know, we've we have um appointed them
[53:06] because we we value the way that they
[53:09] think about some of these broader
[53:11] principles and and I know they don't
[53:13] always agree with each other, but that
[53:15] kind of conversation, I think, will just
[53:16] be really rich and will be helpful for
[53:18] me as I review it as a city council
[53:20] member. So that's my encouragement.
[53:22] Thank you.
[53:24] >> Okay. Um I don't have a a page number
[53:26] target really um in mind.
[53:30] >> Under a thousand pages.
[53:31] Um
[53:35] >> bring it down.
[53:36] >> Sorry. Yeah. less than a lot of um so a
[53:40] lot of the I think I would best answer
[53:42] that by saying that a lot of the stuff a
[53:44] lot of the page count that comes from a
[53:47] great many general plans comes from data
[53:50] tables and things that we are not going
[53:51] to have new versions of for this because
[53:54] we're not hiring outside consultant work
[53:55] on it because it's an update. uh and
[53:57] we're and we're going in a direction to
[53:59] say we're we're looking at for example
[54:02] we're not going to have a housing
[54:03] element that has a whole bunch of data
[54:05] in it because we would rather in the
[54:07] future have a housing plan done a
[54:09] housing study done and that will be that
[54:10] will contain the data. So the page count
[54:12] will be lower than a lot of general
[54:14] plans currently. We're not going to be
[54:16] in the hundreds of pages.
[54:18] >> And structurally, we've talked about
[54:21] taking some of that data in the tables
[54:23] that kind of get in the way of a good uh
[54:27] logical linear read of the general plan
[54:30] and taking those out of the general plan
[54:32] text and putting it into an appendix of
[54:35] the general plan. So, if you want to
[54:38] dive into some of that data, you can,
[54:41] but it won't interfere with a good uh
[54:44] more in-depth executive summary of of
[54:48] things. So, there's not a specific
[54:51] number, but you know, very very readable
[54:55] that you could read quickly without
[54:57] getting bogged down in tables. It's
[54:59] there. You don't have to slog through it
[55:02] to get the highlevel concepts that we're
[55:05] talking. So, are you going to be adding
[55:07] any additional elements to it other than
[55:09] since it's an update?
[55:10] >> Um, that's a great great question. Um,
[55:12] as the planning commission as we started
[55:15] this process, they did identify a couple
[55:18] of things they wanted to add or change.
[55:20] Um, there's there are two chapters
[55:22] currently for public facilities and u
[55:25] parks and recreation. They wanted to
[55:27] combine those. So, they'll losing one in
[55:29] that way. uh they did want to do and I'm
[55:32] still looking at um a short
[55:35] implementation chapter at the end. Those
[55:36] would be the two main additions. There
[55:39] would be a short sort of implementation
[55:41] strategy chapter that says here's here's
[55:43] all your your information, all your
[55:45] objectives, all your goals. Maybe they
[55:47] get put in three tiers of levels of
[55:49] importance and you'd have to organize
[55:51] those and the the first, you know, the
[55:53] first most important ones are these, the
[55:55] next and these. Just real simple. But
[55:56] those would be the only two. And as
[55:58] staff, we like that implementation idea
[56:01] because we have these big broad
[56:03] principles that look out over
[56:06] uh the city and its development. There
[56:09] are so many things to look at. We would
[56:12] like to at some point have some sort of
[56:15] prioritization of what should we work on
[56:19] next. The general plan
[56:21] >> isn't the end. It's actually the
[56:24] beginning of things that we're doing.
[56:26] So, you know, an example of that is like
[56:29] uh we have the general plan. The general
[56:32] plan has some high level uh uh talking
[56:35] points about, you know, parks and
[56:37] creating community and things like that.
[56:39] Well, the council took that and went
[56:41] down a next step and did the heart of
[56:44] ORM. And so, we've got that planned now.
[56:47] And so now we're taking the heart of ORM
[56:50] and we're looking at okay, what are some
[56:52] actionable things we can do on that to
[56:55] partner with UVU
[56:57] and uh get things done in the community.
[57:00] That's what I'd see the general plan
[57:02] doing is now like a housing stud. I'll
[57:05] let you in on my bias. I'd like to see
[57:08] uh one of those uh next steps to to be
[57:12] is to be able to get our arms around
[57:15] housing is to actually have a good
[57:16] housing study done. And so that could be
[57:19] in the implementation section. Okay. and
[57:22] then wherever it would rank for the
[57:24] council. Uh it might be really high, it
[57:26] might be mid or or low for the council,
[57:29] but then it helps us organize our work
[57:32] on making sure we're getting the council
[57:35] priorities taken care of. Uh because
[57:38] we're trying as you have a retreat, we
[57:40] try to go to a retreat, take notes about
[57:43] your priorities, what you're trying to
[57:45] accomplish. try to now get that in align
[57:48] everything that we do our general plans
[57:50] and other plans in alignment with those
[57:52] things. So I think the implementation
[57:56] would be a great idea.
[57:58] >> Yeah. And as I as I recall, correct me
[58:00] if I'm wrong that the state law says
[58:03] that really that the only element that's
[58:05] required is the moderate income housing
[58:07] plan. Is that is that part of the
[58:09] general plan?
[58:09] >> There are four other Okay. So there are
[58:12] four. Okay.
[58:12] >> You have to have a land you sell. Okay.
[58:14] And that one we've we've got the most
[58:17] progress on. You have to have a land use
[58:18] element. You have to have a a moder
[58:20] income housing. A housing element.
[58:21] Modern income housing. You have to have
[58:24] uh transportation. No, I'm sorry. It's
[58:26] not true. You have to have a um water
[58:30] conservation element now.
[58:32] >> Oh, okay. Which and that's why we did
[58:34] it. There was a deadline to get the
[58:36] water conservation element done.
[58:38] >> Already done some of these.
[58:39] >> Yeah.
[58:40] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[58:40] >> There's there's one other one that I'm
[58:41] missing. It's not transportation, but
[58:42] there's one. I I'm sorry to quiz you. I
[58:44] just
[58:44] >> Okay, I had a slide, but
[58:46] >> no, that that's the thing is they could
[58:48] a general plan could, as I understand,
[58:50] could have anything in it.
[58:51] >> It can there's a bunch of options after
[58:53] that.
[58:53] >> A lot of different options that a lot of
[58:55] times it's focused on land use only,
[58:58] development only. Not not to make the plan bigger necessarily, but
[59:03] >> but a lot of times it can go some cities
[59:07] will just due to the staff size or the
[59:09] size of the city, they'll just do the
[59:10] required elements and
[59:12] >> forth and others can make them into
[59:14] whatever.
[59:15] >> Yeah.
[59:15] >> And and we'll have several we we want
[59:17] there to be a transportation and an
[59:18] economics
[59:19] >> not an active transportation plan which
[59:21] is part of the transport. Would that be
[59:23] a separate element? It's it's part of
[59:25] >> you high level sort of transportation
[59:27] element and then that would refer to the
[59:29] master transportation plan and the
[59:31] active transportation plans and those
[59:32] would be appendices.
[59:33] >> So that would be under the
[59:33] implementation.
[59:35] >> Yeah. And so kind of think of it like a
[59:39] in we will talk about parks and
[59:41] recreation in the general plan. But
[59:44] talking about parks and recreation in
[59:46] the general plan does not uh supplant
[59:50] what Bryce is doing in diving into the more details of it. So we may have
[59:56] highlevel principles in the general plan
[59:59] for parks and recreation things that we
[1:00:02] want to accomplish. Once that's in
[1:00:04] there, uh I think the Bryce was the last
[1:00:07] one done 2021.
[1:00:09] >> 21.
[1:00:09] >> Yeah. In 21. So we're not too far from
[1:00:12] doing an update of that plan. So in the
[1:00:15] general plan, it may just be a handful
[1:00:18] of pages talking about parks and
[1:00:20] recreation so that the next time they
[1:00:23] update their parks plan, uh if we have a
[1:00:26] consultant or we do it in house, one of
[1:00:28] the first things we do is okay, what are
[1:00:31] the the council's overarching goals for
[1:00:35] parks and recreation and then take those
[1:00:37] principles and make sure they end up in
[1:00:39] that document. Similar like the slide
[1:00:41] Jared had on we like connectivity of
[1:00:45] roads, pedestrian ways in the city.
[1:00:49] That's a good general statement to have.
[1:00:52] But when you now take a look at okay,
[1:00:55] how do we really do this? A lot of some
[1:00:58] of that might be in the transportation
[1:01:00] master plan and in the active
[1:01:03] transportation part of the
[1:01:05] transportation master plan, but you know
[1:01:09] it doesn't mean every street every time
[1:01:12] everywhere has a bike lane and uh a
[1:01:16] pedestrian lane and three lanes of
[1:01:19] traffic. It doesn't mean that. It just
[1:01:21] means we like these things. Now come
[1:01:24] back as you do your more in-depth
[1:01:27] studying. How are you implementing these
[1:01:29] goals in a more specific context?
[1:01:32] >> That's right. Thank you. Any other
[1:01:34] questions?
[1:01:35] >> Can I ask one? Actually, just because
[1:01:37] I'm not sure I answered Quinn's the
[1:01:39] second part of Quinn's question about
[1:01:41] involving the planning commission more
[1:01:42] as we go along. And to that point, you
[1:01:44] all as well. What what I'm suggesting
[1:01:46] here is is work session updates. That
[1:01:49] number could be increased. We could do
[1:01:51] two of them. We could do one in
[1:01:52] September and one in October. Um, we
[1:01:54] could do two in October and one in
[1:01:55] September. Whatever you all want. It's
[1:01:56] what it's how much you're comfortable
[1:01:59] taking up time with me here. So, and I
[1:02:02] know how like my children and my wife
[1:02:03] feel about that. And it's probably
[1:02:06] >> I think you guys kind of answered that
[1:02:08] question. I mean, you this is my
[1:02:12] perception. Planning Commission has been
[1:02:14] working on it for over a year and we
[1:02:16] haven't made a whole lot of progress. So
[1:02:18] that's why you're making the
[1:02:19] recommendation of writing the draft kind
[1:02:23] of pulling it to staff for a more um
[1:02:28] process. I mean just to kind of pull it
[1:02:30] together a little more a little
[1:02:32] >> maybe a more focused
[1:02:33] >> focus. Yeah. Um so that will change
[1:02:38] compared to what was done last year and
[1:02:40] this I don't know how much you've done
[1:02:41] this year but last year especially. Um,
[1:02:45] but the points you're making here is in
[1:02:47] order to meet your timeline.
[1:02:50] Um,
[1:02:52] I guess I don't know. Are you saying in
[1:02:54] order to meet your timeline, these are
[1:02:55] the ones you've set up? This is what's
[1:02:56] going to help you the most to to get the
[1:02:58] reviews of your draft.
[1:02:59] >> I'm not sure that work sessions that that like updating people in a
[1:03:03] quick work session would slow us down.
[1:03:05] Want if we want to have more involvement
[1:03:07] all along that. So, it wouldn't
[1:03:09] necessarily slow it down. Won't affect
[1:03:11] it. just gathers more ideas.
[1:03:13] >> It was just the whole I mean I saw some
[1:03:15] of those meetings and they came up with
[1:03:16] some great ideas last year, right? Some
[1:03:18] of those but like you said it was I saw
[1:03:21] you guys kind of struggle to pull it
[1:03:23] down.
[1:03:23] >> Yeah.
[1:03:24] >> And to pull it into an active document.
[1:03:26] >> So it sounds to me like that's what
[1:03:29] you're saying is you'll give them the
[1:03:30] updates but the
[1:03:32] >> the writing part of it needs to
[1:03:34] >> move forward
[1:03:35] >> focused. Yeah. on Jared using this uh
[1:03:40] timeline you've got on here. There's a
[1:03:42] obviously there's a difference between
[1:03:44] an update versus actual review and
[1:03:48] >> sort of workshopping it and having kind
[1:03:49] of a back and forth,
[1:03:51] >> right? Yeah. That's that's kind of
[1:03:53] >> so I support you guys in what you've
[1:03:54] presented here. I think that's the best
[1:03:57] way to get it accomplished.
[1:04:00] And we view this kind of like uh
[1:04:03] our version of the Declaration of
[1:04:05] Independence and and Jared is our Thomas
[1:04:07] Jefferson. We have a committee. We're
[1:04:09] talking about highlevel principles. He's
[1:04:12] going to go out and do a draft. It will
[1:04:13] then come back for tweaking.
[1:04:16] >> Make you Aaron Burr.
[1:04:17] >> Yes.
[1:04:19] [laughter]
[1:04:23] » Pull out the guns, the musketss.
[1:04:25] >> Thank you. I'm so I I nerd out on this
[1:04:28] because this is one of the things I love
[1:04:30] about planning is planning.
[1:04:33] >> Mayor, do you mind do you mind if we ask
[1:04:35] council member Quinn Mikum to we answer
[1:04:37] >> Quinn? Yes.
[1:04:38] >> Question or response to comment
[1:04:40] sufficiently?
[1:04:42] >> Well, what I heard is that you have no
[1:04:43] idea how long it's going to be.
[1:04:46] Um and that you're going to take a you
[1:04:49] know a first cut, but that you will
[1:04:50] involve planning commission extensively
[1:04:52] along the way. If I interpreted that
[1:04:54] right.
[1:04:56] >> Did I get that right?
[1:04:57] >> That's right.
[1:04:58] >> Yes.
[1:04:58] >> Updates. The planning commission will
[1:04:59] get updates on their drafts.
[1:05:04] » Uh I you know updates are great. I do
[1:05:07] think that um you know bringing the pine
[1:05:10] commission as well as us of course into
[1:05:13] process to get feedback um rather than
[1:05:15] just be updated I think is an important
[1:05:17] part of the process.
[1:05:19] >> Agreed.
[1:05:20] I just want to make sure it's not
[1:05:21] bogging it down. I just saw
[1:05:23] [clears throat] it happen last year. So,
[1:05:25] I think we're I think they're telling us
[1:05:27] they're at a point now they need to move
[1:05:28] forward.
[1:05:31] >> And this is good because uh I think to
[1:05:34] hopefully address concerns that I'm
[1:05:37] hearing with this is we do have some
[1:05:40] elements that are really uh we think
[1:05:44] pretty close like the land use element.
[1:05:46] That's one of the state law required
[1:05:48] ones and it's typically our largest one.
[1:05:52] Um, that's very close. We could start uh
[1:05:56] as we get chapters done, we could start
[1:06:00] sending those out to planning commission
[1:06:01] and council for feedback on it while
[1:06:04] we're working on other things and
[1:06:07] incorporated into the process
[1:06:11] that we're doing here.
[1:06:12] >> That would be possible. So when we're
[1:06:14] updating them, it could be an update on,
[1:06:17] okay, yeah, we've drafted these two
[1:06:20] chapters. Here you go. Take a look at
[1:06:22] it. You can start that and we're then
[1:06:24] updating on we're working on these
[1:06:27] chapters and we'll get back with you. If
[1:06:30] any issues come up, we can let them
[1:06:31] know. We can let you know. So, uh, we
[1:06:34] can, you know, really handle that any
[1:06:37] way you want. And it's probably
[1:06:41] uh the idea to go through this is we're
[1:06:44] kind of doing some of this concurrently
[1:06:48] uh updating planning commission, giving
[1:06:50] them things, but we also want to make
[1:06:52] sure you're updated and you you know
[1:06:55] rather than we get through, we're done
[1:06:57] with the process and then here's this
[1:06:59] big document
[1:07:01] uh that's you know much more manageable.
[1:07:05] I I keep telling Jared, I want it to be
[1:07:07] half of whatever we have now. And so
[1:07:10] what how long is it now?
[1:07:11] >> I give you page count on that. If it's
[1:07:13] half of what we got now, it's about 80
[1:07:14] pages.
[1:07:16] >> Because when Well, before you all were
[1:07:18] here, this worm's general plan was 15
[1:07:21] pages long. That was that was the
[1:07:24] >> That's how I've always seen them, too.
[1:07:26] Is very broad, very
[1:07:29] >> Yeah. It was It was way It was back in
[1:07:31] the Bob Moore days.
[1:07:32] >> Yeah. And we're we're trying to get more
[1:07:34] to that
[1:07:35] >> model that somebody who's lives in the
[1:07:38] city or somebody who maybe wants to come
[1:07:40] in and do a business or develop can look
[1:07:44] at it and find a fairly small document
[1:07:47] that can give them a good sense of okay,
[1:07:50] where does the the city council really
[1:07:52] want to take the city? [snorts]
[1:07:55] And so, uh, I'm looking for cutting in
[1:07:59] half at least what we have. Uh but we
[1:08:02] can do this concurrently. I don't want
[1:08:06] at the end without any updates to the
[1:08:08] council. Oh, by the way, here's a
[1:08:12] >> you know, appreciate that
[1:08:13] >> a big document. I'd like to do work with
[1:08:16] planning commission and the council at
[1:08:18] the same time.
[1:08:20] too. And
[1:08:20] >> Gary, some of this uh some of this
[1:08:23] update or review or or showing drafts,
[1:08:26] some of it could uh be addressed if
[1:08:28] there is um something that we need to
[1:08:31] get clarity on. Like a joint meeting or
[1:08:34] something as well.
[1:08:36] >> Sure.
[1:08:36] >> Yes. I'd like to have a joint meeting.
[1:08:39] >> I didn't include a joint meeting in the
[1:08:41] timeline, but we could. I mean, it's all
[1:08:43] this is not set in stone. I will not
[1:08:46] won't hold anybody to this. This is not
[1:08:48] a binding timeline. plan
[1:08:50] >> though he does get offended over his
[1:08:52] timeline.
[1:08:53] >> Yeah,
[1:08:57] » I don't complain to anybody about it
[1:08:58] except Sammy on the bus. Sammy on the
[1:09:00] bus.
[1:09:02] >> This looks great.
[1:09:04] >> Thank you. And it looks like the next
[1:09:06] item on the agenda is yours as well.
[1:09:08] >> I'll just stay right here.
[1:09:09] >> Next hour. Well, 45 minutes
[1:09:11] presentation, 15 minute Q&A. Do you want
[1:09:13] me to walk back to my chair and walk
[1:09:15] back up or am I okay to just go walk
[1:09:17] back and replug
[1:09:20] >> walking back and coming up? If you
[1:09:23] remember last time we talked about uh
[1:09:26] detached accessory dwelling units that
[1:09:29] the state law changed and requires the
[1:09:32] city to go in and create an uh an
[1:09:36] ordinance by October
[1:09:39] uh that deals with uh detached accessory
[1:09:43] dwelling units. And so we actually took
[1:09:45] it to planning commission. They've made
[1:09:49] a recommendation and you saw we sent out
[1:09:51] a draft of an ordinance. They sent the
[1:09:54] ordinance out. We have uh August today
[1:09:58] and then we have August and we have
[1:10:01] we're not looking for the council really
[1:10:03] to make a decision because there's some
[1:10:06] important issues in here to think about
[1:10:08] and look at until the last meeting of
[1:10:11] September. If we meet that deadline,
[1:10:14] we're in compliance with state law and
[1:10:16] we're not concerned. So really what uh
[1:10:20] we're here today to do is have Jared you
[1:10:24] we sent you out some materials last
[1:10:26] time. You may have had chance to look at
[1:10:28] it, you may not. Jared's going to walk
[1:10:31] us through now the ADU ordinance. Uh not
[1:10:36] looking at a redline strikeout of
[1:10:38] anything, but just the concepts that it
[1:10:40] has in it of of what it's supposed to
[1:10:44] do. and there's some issues that we can
[1:10:47] talk about and get feedback on. And then
[1:10:49] I anticipate at least one more work
[1:10:53] session where we would come in and talk
[1:10:55] about this before we would be asking the
[1:10:57] council to make any sort of uh uh
[1:11:01] decision.
[1:11:02] >> This presentation will include planning
[1:11:03] commission recommendations.
[1:11:05] >> Yes,
[1:11:07] >> this is yeah this will be this will be a
[1:11:08] review of what the planning commission
[1:11:09] recommend.
[1:11:10] >> Thank you.
[1:11:10] >> And then a little background information
[1:11:12] as well. So, as Gary mentioned, this is
[1:11:15] supposed to be adopted by October 1st.
[1:11:17] And this is specifically for detached
[1:11:19] accessory dwelling units. Right now, um,
[1:11:22] cities are required to allow accessory
[1:11:24] dwelling units. We call them accessory
[1:11:26] apartments, which complicated our lives
[1:11:28] a little bit because everyone calls them
[1:11:30] accessory dwelling units now, including
[1:11:31] state codes. So, we thought uh we're leaving most of that alone. I
[1:11:35] think just for the goals of this change,
[1:11:37] we want to meet the requirements of
[1:11:39] state code which is to adopt that detach
[1:11:41] accessory dwelling unit ordinance and
[1:11:43] keep the substance of what ORM has been
[1:11:45] doing for a long time with accessory
[1:11:47] dwelling units which are called
[1:11:49] accessory apartments. Keep that intact.
[1:11:50] We haven't proposed a lot of changes
[1:11:51] there. In fact, nothing except
[1:11:54] reordering of a couple of statements and
[1:11:56] then calling them accessory dwelling
[1:11:57] units instead of accessory apartments uh
[1:12:00] for continuity and then combining the
[1:12:02] regulations in one section so that it's
[1:12:04] easy to find as opposed to having
[1:12:06] accessory dwelling units or accessory
[1:12:07] apartments in one place and detached
[1:12:09] units somewhere else.
[1:12:11] >> And and we are suggesting let's change
[1:12:13] the name from accessory apartments,
[1:12:15] accessory dwelling units. It'll make our
[1:12:19] lives a little easier.
[1:12:20] >> That's what everyone calls it now. We
[1:12:22] Morham's been calling them accessory
[1:12:23] apartments for a long time. So, probably
[1:12:24] be an adjustment for folks, but you
[1:12:27] know, it's uh it's kind of where we
[1:12:29] wanted to go. Um
[1:12:32] the the state code requires a couple of
[1:12:34] things. It's important to understand
[1:12:35] that because that's where we, as I said,
[1:12:37] we try to meet those minimum
[1:12:39] requirements of state code. Um we have
[1:12:41] to allow detached accessory dwelling
[1:12:44] units, which incidentally is something
[1:12:45] like this just for purp.
[1:12:49] It's a accessory dwelling unit that's
[1:12:50] allowed on the same lot as this home,
[1:12:52] but it's not part of the home. The the
[1:12:54] ones that we allow currently would be
[1:12:56] contained within the walls of the home.
[1:12:57] The accessory dwelling unit, the
[1:12:58] accessory requirement. This is an
[1:13:00] allowance that we're required to do for
[1:13:01] something separated from the homes
[1:13:03] itself.
[1:13:04] Um, so they have to be allowed on any
[1:13:07] single family residential property
[1:13:08] that's at least 11,000 ft² or greater.
[1:13:11] That's the minimum. That's the bottom
[1:13:12] that we're allowed to go by the state
[1:13:14] code. Um they we are we're supposed to
[1:13:17] make sure they comply with building
[1:13:18] codes, health codes, fire codes. Um and
[1:13:21] we have to allow for legally constructed
[1:13:23] accessory structure like a detached
[1:13:24] garage to be converted into a a DADU um
[1:13:28] if it can meet our setbacks and things
[1:13:30] that we impose. Those are really the
[1:13:33] only shall statements that are in the
[1:13:34] state code for this. Uh there are a
[1:13:38] bunch of shall nots. We're not allowed
[1:13:40] to require them to have a conditional
[1:13:41] use permit. Um, then it has this one
[1:13:44] vague statement. We're not allowed to
[1:13:45] require setbacks from property lines or
[1:13:47] from a detached dwelling that make it
[1:13:50] unreasonably difficult to locate a DADU
[1:13:52] on a property. Um, we're not allowed to
[1:13:55] require more than two on-site parking
[1:13:57] spaces for any DADU that's bigger than
[1:14:00] 650 ft. And we're not allowed to require
[1:14:02] any more than one for a DAU that's less
[1:14:04] than 650 ft.
[1:14:07] Uh we're also not allowed to require
[1:14:09] design standards that would be in
[1:14:10] conflict with 102618 and that's the
[1:14:12] pretty code uh statements. We're not
[1:14:14] allowed to require certain materials or
[1:14:17] uh certain roof pitches or things like
[1:14:20] that.
[1:14:22] Um so those those are kind of the the
[1:14:24] main knots and all of these codes that
[1:14:26] we're proposing or all these changes
[1:14:28] we're proposing are trying to meet those
[1:14:30] requirements.
[1:14:32] Um the first part I think we think about
[1:14:34] this uh what's been drafted in three
[1:14:36] parts. The first part of it is um a
[1:14:39] purpose statement a quick purpose
[1:14:40] statement and some definitions. The
[1:14:43] purpose statement is where we have said
[1:14:44] a couple of main things that people we
[1:14:46] want people to understand about
[1:14:48] accessory dwelling units in general and
[1:14:50] DND use. You only get them on
[1:14:53] residential properties and they're
[1:14:54] subject to the restrictions of this
[1:14:55] section. You have to say that to people
[1:14:58] but you have to tell people these are
[1:14:59] the codes for these things.
[1:15:01] and then only one ADU of whichever kind
[1:15:03] is permitted in addition to one primary
[1:15:06] dwelling. So what we're saying is
[1:15:07] explicitly
[1:15:10] you can have a house here and you can
[1:15:12] have a detached ADU be the requirements
[1:15:16] or you can have one inside your house an
[1:15:18] ADU inside your house but you cannot
[1:15:19] have an ADU inside your house and a
[1:15:22] detached ADU. You get one or the other
[1:15:24] not both. Does that make sense? So we
[1:15:26] put that right at the beginning in the
[1:15:28] purpose statement kind of the opening
[1:15:30] statement. Can I ask you?
[1:15:31] >> Yeah.
[1:15:32] >> Is go back.
[1:15:34] >> I got an email from somebody who or a
[1:15:36] text from somebody whose neighbor um had
[1:15:40] keep has their an RV in the backyard as
[1:15:42] a dwelling unit in it.
[1:15:43] >> Yeah. No, that's that wouldn't
[1:15:45] >> that need to be spelled out specifically
[1:15:46] or is that referenced somewhere else?
[1:15:48] >> It's it's it's spelled out specifically
[1:15:50] by the building codes. Um this part
[1:15:52] where they have to comply with building
[1:15:53] health and fire codes. You can't legally
[1:15:55] live in an RV in your backyard because
[1:15:57] it's not hooked up to utilities. It's
[1:15:58] not on a permanent foundation. So, it
[1:16:00] doesn't mean it for that reason. You
[1:16:02] don't actually have to say, "Thou shalt
[1:16:03] not live in an RV in your backyard."
[1:16:05] >> Okay.
[1:16:05] >> The health and fire and building codes
[1:16:06] already tell you you can.
[1:16:08] >> So, but good question. And people do
[1:16:10] that. They want to people want to move
[1:16:11] tiny homes in and that's probably fine
[1:16:13] under these kind of
[1:16:14] >> short-term rentals.
[1:16:15] >> Yeah. And you you you could you could do
[1:16:18] short-term rentals. Let me just as long
[1:16:20] as you you brought it up. Well, I said
[1:16:25] [laughter]
[1:16:26] this
[1:16:27] >> this proposal, just so you know, and the
[1:16:30] commission and and staff are very much
[1:16:31] aware that STRs are a thing. Um, this
[1:16:36] proposal dealing with the detached
[1:16:38] accessory dwelling units does not deal
[1:16:39] with whether you can use one as a
[1:16:41] short-term rental or not. The the
[1:16:42] default is the default and we haven't
[1:16:44] tried this.
[1:16:45] >> Okay. So, so we're going to take all
[1:16:46] that NTR. I'm going to set it over here
[1:16:49] for tonight.
[1:16:50] >> Yeah. It doesn't have
[1:16:51] >> I'm going to just talk about detached
[1:16:53] ads.
[1:16:54] >> If it happens that you wind up being
[1:16:55] able to do them on properties, then they
[1:16:58] would be eligible in DAU perhaps or you
[1:17:00] could restrict them from DU. It just
[1:17:01] depends. We're not treating that in this
[1:17:03] proposal.
[1:17:04] >> Okay.
[1:17:04] >> Not part of this draft. Does that make
[1:17:06] sense? Felt like it was the wrong time
[1:17:08] to make a decision on that.
[1:17:11] >> We wanted to get it done in time for the
[1:17:12] deadline. So, we figured
[1:17:15] um we did have to make a few definition
[1:17:18] changes and and following closely on the
[1:17:20] heels of this ordinance is a is a kind
[1:17:23] of an omnibus definitions change. I was
[1:17:26] trying to encapsulate it in the code. Um
[1:17:30] but we're um we're going to do another
[1:17:33] text amendment on the heels of this that
[1:17:35] will change all of the the definitions
[1:17:38] to match all over in the code. So
[1:17:40] wherever it says accessory apartments in
[1:17:41] the code in other places for code
[1:17:44] enforcement and things it'll now say
[1:17:45] accessory dwelling said changes like
[1:17:47] that they won't have any substance but
[1:17:49] they'll make the definition match. These
[1:17:50] are the ones we felt like we needed to
[1:17:52] define so that people would understand
[1:17:53] an accessory dwelling unit is a single
[1:17:55] family dwelling that is subordinate to
[1:17:57] the primary dwelling on the same lot or
[1:17:58] parcel. So you can't have an accessory
[1:18:01] dwelling unit that's accessory to
[1:18:02] nothing. It's got to be uh accessory to
[1:18:05] a primary dwelling to it. Primary
[1:18:07] dwelling means a single family detached
[1:18:09] home that's permitted by the zoning on
[1:18:11] the lot parcel where it's located. So
[1:18:14] what that what that means is that if
[1:18:15] there's a leftover
[1:18:17] >> uh house in a commercial zone, for
[1:18:19] example, a single family home legal
[1:18:21] non-conforming on a commercial property,
[1:18:23] we would not further entrench that
[1:18:25] non-conforming use by saying, "Oh, go
[1:18:26] ahead and have an ADU there." Um you
[1:18:28] wouldn't be allowed to do one there
[1:18:30] because you're supposed to not be doing
[1:18:32] a house there eventually. So only where
[1:18:34] it's allowed by the zoning. The third as
[1:18:36] attached accessory dwelling unit is what
[1:18:38] we are currently calling accessory
[1:18:39] apartments. An accessory dwelling unit
[1:18:41] that is contained within the footprint
[1:18:42] of the primary dwelling or is attached
[1:18:44] directly to it. And fourth that the
[1:18:45] detached dwelling unit is an accessory
[1:18:47] dwelling unit separate from and
[1:18:48] subordinate to the primary dwelling on
[1:18:50] that lot parcel. Uh and then again here
[1:18:53] in that definition mayor to your point
[1:18:54] from earlier such a dwelling must be
[1:18:56] placed on a permanent foundation and
[1:18:57] connected to all utilities.
[1:19:00] Um part two that's the first part. The
[1:19:03] second part of it is the regulations
[1:19:05] that we already have. We're moving them
[1:19:07] from where they are to the new section
[1:19:09] that we're proposing so that they can be
[1:19:10] found easily. So that whole section will
[1:19:12] look like a big strikeout, but fear not,
[1:19:14] it's just getting transferred over to
[1:19:15] the new the new portion. Um, right now,
[1:19:19] and this wouldn't change, attached ADUs
[1:19:22] that we currently call accessory
[1:19:23] apartments would not be allowed in R5 or
[1:19:25] PRD zones. They're they're just not
[1:19:28] allowed in those smaller zones, smaller
[1:19:29] lots, things. Owner occupancy is a
[1:19:32] requirement. They're located inside the
[1:19:34] footprint of the primary home or
[1:19:35] attached to it. Parking gets required
[1:19:37] for it in addition to the primary
[1:19:38] dwellings parking. So, under our code,
[1:19:40] you have to have two parking spaces for
[1:19:41] your primary dwelling. You have to
[1:19:43] provide parking for your accessory
[1:19:44] dwelling as well. Utility meters have to
[1:19:47] be in the property owner's name. You can
[1:19:48] have a second meter for water on your
[1:19:50] accessory dwelling unit on your
[1:19:51] accessory department, but that meter has
[1:19:53] to be in the property owner's name. that
[1:19:54] keeps people from from head faking us
[1:19:57] and running duplexes instead of owner
[1:19:59] occupied accessory dwellings. Um,
[1:20:01] entrances to the ADU aren't supposed to
[1:20:03] be on the same facade as the entrance to
[1:20:04] the home or facing a street and permits
[1:20:07] are required for the work and you have
[1:20:09] to get a rental dwelling license when
[1:20:10] you're done. We we track all the
[1:20:12] accessory apartments in the city
[1:20:13] accessory dwelling.
[1:20:14] >> So, okay. Can I ask that facing the
[1:20:15] street thing?
[1:20:17] >> So, the stairway cannot go down from the
[1:20:19] street side. Well, if you're the
[1:20:22] basement entrance, it would have it
[1:20:23] should be around the side or around the
[1:20:24] rear.
[1:20:25] >> Well, I'm sorry. So, if the entrance is
[1:20:27] on the side,
[1:20:28] >> Uhhuh.
[1:20:29] >> Do the stairs have to be
[1:20:32] >> go down from the back or can they go
[1:20:34] down from the
[1:20:35] >> They could go down from the front. As
[1:20:36] long as it's on the side facade, the
[1:20:38] stairs could go down.
[1:20:39] >> So, facing the street just means on the
[1:20:41] same side as
[1:20:42] >> you want it to be on the front side.
[1:20:43] Makes them look more like a duplex. The
[1:20:45] point of that is to make it not look
[1:20:46] like a duplex.
[1:20:47] >> Go back to that picture of the cute
[1:20:49] little house. This one. No.
[1:20:50] >> This one.
[1:20:51] >> That is cute.
[1:20:51] >> It is cute, right?
[1:20:52] >> Yes. So, in theory, this would not This
[1:20:56] I guess this foreground is the ADU. The
[1:20:58] detached ADU.
[1:20:59] >> Yeah. This is the detach.
[1:21:00] >> Shouldn't face the street.
[1:21:02] >> No, this this shouldn't face a street.
[1:21:04] This This entrance here could face like
[1:21:06] this to a backyard or it could face the
[1:21:08] house. It could face into this backyard,
[1:21:10] but the street is out in front of this
[1:21:12] house. And this shouldn't be this
[1:21:14] shouldn't Well, that's a good question.
[1:21:16] We
[1:21:16] >> Why is [clears throat] it materially
[1:21:17] important? Because it looks cute either
[1:21:18] way. It is cute. Either way, someone's
[1:21:20] in there writing a children's book for
[1:21:21] sure.
[1:21:24] [laughter]
[1:21:26] » Chamomile or something. I don't know.
[1:21:28] But this is [clears throat]
[1:21:30] >> We also don't allow them. So, we'll get
[1:21:32] to setbacks and things, but we wouldn't want detached accessory
[1:21:34] dwelling units to be between the primary
[1:21:36] dwelling on the street. So, they'd be in
[1:21:38] the rear yard or the sideyard.
[1:21:39] >> So, if it's in the rear yard, why do we
[1:21:41] care what direction?
[1:21:42] >> So, in the rear yard, it doesn't matter.
[1:21:43] It can be facing the street, but it
[1:21:45] can't be like I mean is if this is again
[1:21:47] this is not for the detached but for the
[1:21:50] it says detached up here. I'm sorry
[1:21:51] that's just the titles of the slides but
[1:21:53] these are the codes for the accessory
[1:21:54] dwelling units that are part of the
[1:21:56] house. So when you're doing an internal
[1:21:58] accessory dwelling unit like if your
[1:21:59] accessory dwelling unit was inside this
[1:22:01] house and this didn't exist. We wouldn't
[1:22:03] want the entrance to the accessory
[1:22:04] dwelling unit to be facing this street.
[1:22:06] >> That makes much more sense.
[1:22:07] >> That makes sense. So, it's it's partly
[1:22:08] confusing because it's I've got these
[1:22:10] detached pictures, but
[1:22:12] >> I wish we could say it has to
[1:22:13] >> just say if you can move in here soon.
[1:22:16] >> Wait, just like that.
[1:22:19] >> Has to look like this picture.
[1:22:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. We need to have something
[1:22:22] that says it looks as though a
[1:22:23] children's book would be written.
[1:22:25] >> That's appropriate.
[1:22:26] >> If you'll let you build it.
[1:22:29] >> Probably 10-20 would not
[1:22:32] 10-20 was written exactly to prevent
[1:22:34] that. Yes. Sorry.
[1:22:36] Um, so yeah, it couldn't be. And we do
[1:22:39] require rental dwelling licenses. Um,
[1:22:42] and we'll come back to this if we need
[1:22:43] to, but the same facade issue, that's where we're at with that. We
[1:22:47] require permits for work and we require
[1:22:48] licenses for these that you have to take
[1:22:50] out a license to run it as a landlord.
[1:22:52] So, um, detached ADUs, this is the third
[1:22:56] part. So, all those things, we brought
[1:22:58] them back over. We didn't change
[1:22:59] anything about those codes. They're all
[1:23:00] still the same, uh, in this in this
[1:23:02] proposed draft. detached. That's the
[1:23:05] third section of the proposed ordinance.
[1:23:08] Uh they have to be permitted, like we
[1:23:09] said, for lots at least 11,000 square
[1:23:11] feet. For the sake of numbers, for those
[1:23:12] of you that are numbers people, there
[1:23:14] are 5,800 single family residential
[1:23:15] properties in Oram City that are
[1:23:17] currently at least 11,000 ft². Um so not
[1:23:21] a small number. Um not all of them will
[1:23:23] qualify in other ways. Setbacks might
[1:23:25] keep a few from from working, but that's
[1:23:27] the that's the plan. Um size
[1:23:30] restrictions. We have proposed a minimum
[1:23:32] of 200 square feet. That lets us for
[1:23:34] sure require building permits. Um, and
[1:23:38] then never allowed to be larger than 50%
[1:23:39] of the primary dwelling. Again, the the
[1:23:41] point is to keep it subordinate to the existing home. So, if you have a
[1:23:45] little tiny home and you build a
[1:23:46] gigantic accessory dwelling in it, it
[1:23:48] feels a little a little wrong.
[1:23:50] >> Out of balance. Yeah.
[1:23:51] >> Yeah. So nothing would keep you from
[1:23:55] uh from building like if you had a
[1:23:56] little tiny house and it was way back on
[1:23:58] your lot, grandma's old farm lot or
[1:24:00] something and you wanted to build a big
[1:24:01] new house in the front and make the back
[1:24:03] one your accessory dwelling unit if it
[1:24:05] met those if it met by happen stance
[1:24:07] arbor codes would say no to that. But
[1:24:10] the the purpose is that it has to be no
[1:24:12] more than 50% of the size the main
[1:24:14] house. Um lot sizes we we were proposing
[1:24:17] and the planning commission has
[1:24:18] forwarded a recommendation proposing
[1:24:19] this lot sizes between 11,000 and 13,000
[1:24:23] for all intents and purposes square feet
[1:24:25] 850 ft for the maximum size for the
[1:24:27] accessory dwelling unit and no more than
[1:24:30] two bedrooms uh for lots between 13 and
[1:24:33] 15,000 ft²,000 ft for the ADU and no
[1:24:37] more than two bedrooms and the truly
[1:24:38] large lots the 15,000 plus 1,200 ft² for
[1:24:41] the ADU and three bedrooms. Um we we
[1:24:44] picked these numbers out of a lot of
[1:24:46] different codes that we'd read. Um a lot
[1:24:48] go up to 1,200. You see a few that are
[1:24:50] 1500 and that kind of thing, but mostly
[1:24:52] they cap out at about 12 and a lot have
[1:24:55] um 650 ft as a minimum as a maximum for
[1:24:59] smaller lots.
[1:25:01] I'm going to take 50 on 11,000 just cuz
[1:25:03] there are so many house plans for
[1:25:04] accessory dwelling units that are about
[1:25:06] a
[1:25:08] there's just a lot. So that's where we
[1:25:10] came up with those numbers. And again,
[1:25:11] we don't have a lot of time for a whole
[1:25:12] bunch of research before October, so
[1:25:14] crank these in. Um,
[1:25:17] height restrictions, maximum height of
[1:25:19] 20 ft for a pitched roof ADU structure,
[1:25:22] uh, 14 for flat roofs, not to be taller
[1:25:25] than the primary dwelling. Uh, we would
[1:25:27] allow loft spaces under the code that we
[1:25:29] proposed, but not more than 20% of the
[1:25:30] interior of the house. Um, because
[1:25:33] enterprising people will just make a
[1:25:34] loft that goes all the way to 5t over
[1:25:36] here, little stairwell going up, and
[1:25:37] made themselves a second story that's
[1:25:39] not really a second story. So, we
[1:25:40] defined
[1:25:42] loft spaces and then no exterior
[1:25:44] balconies. Um, because again, this is
[1:25:48] the intent of a of a detached accessory
[1:25:50] dwelling unit or the value proposition
[1:25:51] of it is that it it adds another
[1:25:54] dwelling on a property without truly
[1:25:55] affecting the residential character of
[1:25:57] the place where it is and kind of
[1:26:00] undermine that with balconies or
[1:26:02] setbacks that are too close or or what
[1:26:04] have you. So, with that in mind, let's
[1:26:06] talk about setbacks.
[1:26:08] uh from a primary dwelling on the lot.
[1:26:09] We've proposed 10 ft. There was a lot of
[1:26:12] talk at the planning commission about 6
[1:26:13] feet or whether we were 10 feet or 6
[1:26:15] feet. And I asked Emma to do us some and
[1:26:18] she has done for us some examples and 6
[1:26:21] ft was in her brain. So they all show
[1:26:23] accessory dwelling units at 6 ft behind
[1:26:25] a house instead of 10. We'll get to that
[1:26:27] in a second. The actual draft says 10
[1:26:29] ft. Let me get that out of the way now
[1:26:30] when it's as confusing as possible.
[1:26:32] Sorry. Uh 20 ft from any dwelling on an
[1:26:35] adjacent lot. And if somebody happens to
[1:26:38] have a non-conforming house that's real
[1:26:40] close and 10 ft wouldn't keep you 20 ft
[1:26:42] from that, then 20 this rule would kick
[1:26:43] in and keep you at least 20 ft from
[1:26:45] their house. 10 ft from any interior
[1:26:47] property line, a side or rear property
[1:26:49] and 25 ft from any public or private
[1:26:52] street. And then again, we talked about
[1:26:54] this a little bit, but not to be located
[1:26:55] between the primary dwelling and a
[1:26:57] street of any kind, corner side, double
[1:26:59] frontage lot, or in front of the house
[1:27:02] just because the house is a long way
[1:27:03] back. You still have to be behind the
[1:27:05] house. Um and again we because the code
[1:27:09] requires it, state code requires it,
[1:27:11] we've got a section saying you can use
[1:27:13] an existing accessory structure that can
[1:27:15] be converted or remodeled meeting our
[1:27:17] setbacks and or other height
[1:27:19] requirements and things like that.
[1:27:22] Um any questions about setbacks we can
[1:27:24] come back to. There's a I've seen a few
[1:27:26] properties in Oram where they have
[1:27:29] attached unit whether it be a shed or
[1:27:31] something that goes right up to the
[1:27:32] fence and goes and you showed it in your
[1:27:33] one of your first pictures goes to the
[1:27:35] property line where a lot of cases that
[1:27:36] doesn't make sense but there may be some
[1:27:38] cases where it does make sense ways to
[1:27:39] work with those
[1:27:41] >> you we'd have to look at them I don't
[1:27:42] know and we could talk more about that
[1:27:44] as we look at the examples that uh Emma
[1:27:46] prepared for us too so but it's a good question right now our
[1:27:50] accessory structure so like if you have
[1:27:52] a detached garage you can be very close
[1:27:54] to your property line with a detached
[1:27:55] garage. We propose that 10 ft as a
[1:27:58] minimum just because it feels like uh it
[1:28:01] feels like a dwelling that someone lives
[1:28:03] in being close to your property line is
[1:28:04] different than their garage where they
[1:28:06] keep their lawn mower and what
[1:28:09] um so but that's we can talk about that
[1:28:11] more. It's a good point. Uh let's see
[1:28:15] couple of quick things about parking
[1:28:16] before and other things before we get to
[1:28:17] the uh the examples of what these might
[1:28:20] look like in real life or at least where
[1:28:22] they'd be located. Uh parking needs to
[1:28:24] be located these we kept these from the
[1:28:26] existing accessory apartments code that
[1:28:29] we have. We just mirrored that located
[1:28:30] behind the front setback. So front yard
[1:28:33] driveway spaces like here you couldn't
[1:28:35] say well I've got my parking from ADU.
[1:28:36] You have to provide it like around the
[1:28:38] side of the house or something. So it's
[1:28:39] specific and is truly used for the ADU
[1:28:42] as opposed to um the homeowner living
[1:28:45] here is going to have his car parked in
[1:28:46] there and let the ADU occupant be parked
[1:28:48] in back have to move his car. That just
[1:28:50] guarantees they're on the street. So, we
[1:28:51] require them to be behind driveway or
[1:28:54] outside of the driveway. Um, one
[1:28:56] additional space, this is right out of
[1:28:58] the um the state requirements. One
[1:29:00] additional space for any DAU that's 200
[1:29:02] to 650 ft. Two additional spaces for
[1:29:05] anything bigger than 650 ft².
[1:29:09] Now, these slides that um I'm going to
[1:29:12] show you in a second, again, utility
[1:29:13] service. This is another thing that
[1:29:14] we're allowed to do. We're allowed to
[1:29:15] review the utility uh service
[1:29:18] availability and make sure that it can
[1:29:19] handle that our water and sewer and
[1:29:22] things can handle having another unit
[1:29:23] here. It's not usually a problem. Adus
[1:29:26] have become prevalent enough that
[1:29:27] whenever we do updates to water things,
[1:29:29] they're usually the consultants are
[1:29:31] always asking how you know what's
[1:29:33] allowed in these areas etc. And because
[1:29:35] accessory apartments have been allowed
[1:29:36] in or for a long time, that's probably
[1:29:38] already been part of the consideration.
[1:29:40] But there might be those cases where we
[1:29:42] want to make sure that uh they can run
[1:29:44] water lines because there maybe there
[1:29:45] aren't easements to get the water line
[1:29:46] back there. Maybe it doesn't work. We
[1:29:48] just want to make sure that's part of
[1:29:48] the review. And again, they're required
[1:29:50] to obtain permits for the new
[1:29:52] construction and get a rental dwelling
[1:29:54] license just like interior accessory
[1:29:56] dwellings.
[1:29:56] >> And then then they'll have their own
[1:29:58] separate hookup charge, right? Like we
[1:30:00] do with apartment buildings.
[1:30:02] >> Exactly.
[1:30:04] Um let's see now. Here's some examples.
[1:30:08] Emma pulled these lots at random. just
[1:30:10] looking at aerials and then zooming in
[1:30:12] to see if it would meet our 11,000 ft or
[1:30:14] larger. Tried to get some different kind
[1:30:16] of lot configurations and different lot
[1:30:18] sizes and then applied our proposed um
[1:30:22] ordinance, the one that the drafted
[1:30:24] ordinance to these lots. So, you'll see
[1:30:28] parking spaces. She tried to say where
[1:30:29] we where they could locate parking if
[1:30:31] they had room to do that. Uh and the
[1:30:33] size that would be allowed based on the
[1:30:34] lot size. So based on this lot's size,
[1:30:39] the available square footage in the back
[1:30:40] after setbacks of 25 from the road, 10
[1:30:43] from the interiors, and six from the
[1:30:45] house. Again, it should be 10, but six
[1:30:47] is one of the things we talked about.
[1:30:50] Um, they would have a they would be
[1:30:52] allowed a 1,000T accessory detach
[1:30:54] accessory dwelling unit and they could
[1:30:57] site one there. So that's that's kind of
[1:30:59] the space it would take up in the rear
[1:31:00] yard and what it might be. That's a
[1:31:02] likely spot for them to put it. That
[1:31:04] make sense? I have five or six of these
[1:31:06] just as examples so you can consider
[1:31:08] >> that was kind of unique. That's a corner
[1:31:10] lot, right? Those are a little more
[1:31:11] complicated,
[1:31:12] >> little harder to do. We wanted some
[1:31:14] different kinds of ones because there's
[1:31:15] a cul there's a culde-sac lot in here,
[1:31:17] too. [clears throat] Um, so far in her
[1:31:20] random in her random review, she has not
[1:31:22] found one that would not work. An 11,000
[1:31:25] plus foot lot that you could not site
[1:31:27] one.
[1:31:30] This is another one. This lot is 11,325
[1:31:33] ft. So it would get an 850 foot
[1:31:36] allowance for one. They might not take
[1:31:38] up the whole thing, but you could put a
[1:31:39] maximum size one there. And those are
[1:31:41] its setbacks.
[1:31:44] >> What's the setback from the neighbor the
[1:31:46] rear
[1:31:46] >> from here or here? This is 10
[1:31:48] >> corner lot again.
[1:31:49] >> It's showing 10.
[1:31:50] >> This is another corner lot.
[1:31:51] >> Uh-huh. Got a corner here.
[1:31:54] >> So there 25 from that corner side and 10
[1:31:56] from the interior here.
[1:31:58] Total distance from here to the house. I
[1:32:00] don't know. This is a larger sideyard.
[1:32:02] This home could be because it's a
[1:32:03] sidehood, it could be located closer
[1:32:05] than that. In other situations in this
[1:32:07] particular one, it's it's not.
[1:32:11] And then again, parking for the parking,
[1:32:13] you're going to see four on each one or
[1:32:15] some if it's a smaller one, maybe three,
[1:32:17] but two for the primary dwelling in the
[1:32:19] garage there. And then the driveway
[1:32:21] doesn't get a count. They'd have to pour
[1:32:22] a pad around the side here like that for
[1:32:24] the parking for the ADU.
[1:32:29] Here's the culde-sac lot. Again, they'd
[1:32:31] have to get creative with the parking.
[1:32:33] They could do them in tandem. They could
[1:32:34] just run a longer driveway or something,
[1:32:35] but they could do a thousand square foot
[1:32:37] one back here, meet those setbacks.
[1:32:40] Uh, and you can see kind of where it
[1:32:42] would likely put the unit.
[1:32:44] >> Why are we using a th00and?
[1:32:45] >> Cuz that's what would be allowed. This
[1:32:47] is a 13,000t lot. So, under the draft
[1:32:49] that we currently have, you could do up
[1:32:51] to a,000 ft of detached accessory
[1:32:53] dwelling unit.
[1:32:56] >> You could do smaller. This is the
[1:32:58] maximum. This is the biggest one.
[1:33:01] that you this is the biggest one you
[1:33:02] could do regardless. Even if they had
[1:33:03] three times this much space back here,
[1:33:05] that's the biggest one they could do
[1:33:08] based on the draft.
[1:33:09] >> Jared, I might have missed this before,
[1:33:10] but can you have tandem parking behind
[1:33:12] the house?
[1:33:13] >> You you can under um under state code
[1:33:16] under one of the on that 1020 the one
[1:33:18] that doesn't allow us to do pretty. It
[1:33:19] also doesn't allow us to not count
[1:33:20] tandem parking for accessory.
[1:33:24] Great question.
[1:33:27] and the parking. Favorite target of
[1:33:29] planners everywhere. Not allowed. They don't let us target that anymore.
[1:33:33] We're discriminatory.
[1:33:35] Um here's another culde-sac lot. Those
[1:33:37] should be the hardest ones to locate
[1:33:38] these on generally speaking. And then so
[1:33:40] far not too bad. This is this is larger
[1:33:43] than 11,000. Sorry, larger than 11,000
[1:33:45] ft, but not large enough to allow the
[1:33:47] 1,000T maximum. So you get 850 ft back
[1:33:50] here, but you could do up to 850 ft back
[1:33:53] there and make your setbacks work the
[1:33:54] way that we have proposed them at 10 ft.
[1:33:58] >> So are you saying that that is 10 ft
[1:34:00] from the house?
[1:34:02] >> This is this is this around the house
[1:34:04] just this gray you're seeing is actually
[1:34:06] only 6 ft. If it were 10, it would still
[1:34:08] actually make it. But
[1:34:09] >> would still look like clip the corner of
[1:34:11] it.
[1:34:12] >> Yeah, it might.
[1:34:12] >> Building envelope.
[1:34:13] >> It might. And they would have to they'd
[1:34:16] have to
[1:34:17] >> Well, I'm sorry. I'm not understanding
[1:34:18] cuz that 10 ft looks about the same as
[1:34:20] >> it's 10 ft.
[1:34:21] >> Yeah. So you're saying the top red
[1:34:23] corner
[1:34:24] >> is 6 feet from the from the house.
[1:34:27] >> This is 6 feet here. Right here.
[1:34:30] >> Okay. So that's set back more than six
[1:34:32] feet.
[1:34:32] >> Yeah. This is set back more than six.
[1:34:38] » Sorry.
[1:34:39] >> No, that I just couldn't tell.
[1:34:40] >> Yeah. No, I'm sorry. That's that's why
[1:34:42] it's a little confusing because it's the
[1:34:43] six feet instead of the 10. that it it's
[1:34:46] actually the code says the code that we
[1:34:47] proposed says 10 but we drew these at
[1:34:50] six just having confused ourselves
[1:34:52] talking about six versus 10.
[1:34:53] >> Yeah. But the 10 is the property line.
[1:34:55] >> Yes.
[1:34:56] >> Go through the logic of the six versus
[1:34:57] 10. Why they
[1:34:58] >> six foot is it's a great question. The
[1:35:01] six feet is what you're required the
[1:35:03] current if you want to build an
[1:35:04] accessory a shed or a garage in your
[1:35:06] backyard you have to stay at least 6
[1:35:07] feet from your house. We wrote the draft
[1:35:10] saying 10 just to make it a uniform. 10
[1:35:12] ft from the house, 10 feet from property
[1:35:13] lines that are interior and 25 from
[1:35:16] streets. But uh the commission had when
[1:35:18] they were discussing the draft, they
[1:35:20] talked about what's required for
[1:35:22] current, you know, 6 ft is 6 ft's in
[1:35:24] their brains because that's what we
[1:35:25] require for accessories. And this is
[1:35:27] accessory in name at least accessory
[1:35:29] dwelling units. So 6 ft is a pretty
[1:35:31] standard. If you're 6 ft behind the
[1:35:33] house, if you're separated 6 ft from
[1:35:35] your dwelling, you don't have fire code
[1:35:38] problems with the with the garage or the
[1:35:40] shed or the or the accessory dwelling in
[1:35:42] it, frankly, anything that you're doing.
[1:35:44] That's why six uh 10 just to to make it
[1:35:47] for privacy's purposes, I guess. But,
[1:35:50] you know, if if you wanted to allow
[1:35:51] people to do 6 ft instead of 10 from
[1:35:53] their house to make some like if this
[1:35:56] one, for example, was 10 and it was just
[1:35:58] clipping the corner, 6 ft wouldn't clip
[1:36:01] the corner. If you want to make it more
[1:36:02] accessible to people, six is a
[1:36:04] reasonable standard to close it's close
[1:36:06] to their house and lets them keep it
[1:36:08] close to their house and and still get
[1:36:09] to do it without um you know violating
[1:36:12] anybody else's setbacks
[1:36:14] >> probably favor making it more flexible
[1:36:15] for the homeowner who has to live the
[1:36:17] consequences of how far the place is but
[1:36:18] >> have to make a decision. So
[1:36:20] >> it doesn't impact the neighbors. I think
[1:36:21] it and that's my I don't know when it's
[1:36:24] the right time to say this but for me
[1:36:26] impact on the neighbors is key here.
[1:36:28] >> Sure. Because the tendency is I'm going
[1:36:30] to tuck this as far away from me as
[1:36:32] possible. Right. And yet you're putting
[1:36:36] it closer to your neighbor's especially
[1:36:39] are we
[1:36:41] so you're saying right now on our
[1:36:43] commercial code we have a 1:1 height
[1:36:46] ratio. So you're 10t away. You can't
[1:36:48] have higher than 10 ft if you're So I
[1:36:51] almost feel like we should put the same
[1:36:53] protection in here so that the impact
[1:36:56] goes to the person who's trying to gain
[1:36:58] the benefit
[1:36:59] >> for the primary dwelling.
[1:37:00] >> Yeah. For the primary benefit or
[1:37:03] dwelling because they're the one getting
[1:37:04] the financial benefit. They're the one,
[1:37:06] you know, it's on their property. So why
[1:37:08] are you infringing on your neighbors
[1:37:10] privacy?
[1:37:10] >> Sure.
[1:37:11] >> By trying to put it as far back in your
[1:37:13] yard.
[1:37:14] >> And we could we could entertain that.
[1:37:15] Absolutely. would like to see how you
[1:37:16] could make that fit with the law.
[1:37:19] >> Still,
[1:37:20] >> I don't think it would be a problem with
[1:37:21] the law. We're allowed to regulate the
[1:37:23] height and things. And actually, I'm
[1:37:25] going to go all the way back to the
[1:37:26] writer's cottage. That's not real tall.
[1:37:29] You know, you could even with that peak,
[1:37:33] that wouldn't be hard to sight. And
[1:37:34] still, you know, if you're and and I'm not
[1:37:39] I I completely agree with the thoughts
[1:37:41] there because the accessory dwelling
[1:37:43] units, especially detached accessory
[1:37:45] dwelling units, the whole point is for
[1:37:47] them not to be an impact to the
[1:37:49] character, right? So, if they're
[1:37:51] maintaining that, anything that pushes
[1:37:53] them to be smaller or located more
[1:37:55] unobtrusively, that's good. We just The
[1:37:59] only thing I worry about is falling a
[1:38:00] foul of this right here, the
[1:38:02] unreasonably difficult. As long as it's
[1:38:04] not unreasonably difficult, then we're
[1:38:06] not going to have a problem with the
[1:38:07] state on it.
[1:38:08] >> Would you do like a range?
[1:38:10] >> Yeah. Let me get back to the heights.
[1:38:11] Sorry. A range is a good idea.
[1:38:13] >> Like range from from property line,
[1:38:16] right?
[1:38:16] >> Increase height as you're further from
[1:38:17] the property.
[1:38:18] >> Yeah,
[1:38:18] >> sure. Absolutely.
[1:38:19] >> Because we do that in for ours that are
[1:38:22] next to commercial. We use that as a
[1:38:24] protection. That's just standard
[1:38:26] planning.
[1:38:26] >> Sure.
[1:38:27] >> Protections.
[1:38:28] >> We could absolutely implement something
[1:38:29] like that. Look what that would I don't
[1:38:30] think it would be a problem for the the
[1:38:32] state code if as long as it was, you
[1:38:34] know,
[1:38:34] >> and I want that I I would like to have
[1:38:36] you help me figure this out with not
[1:38:38] only height, but also once again I'm
[1:38:41] going to come back to this impact should
[1:38:43] be felt by the homeowner who is building
[1:38:45] it on their property. Their property
[1:38:47] should fill the impact more than the
[1:38:49] property to the side or behind them.
[1:38:51] >> Sure. And if you're pushing it clear
[1:38:53] back in the corner because we're only
[1:38:54] doing 10 feet when they could put it
[1:38:57] within six feet of their house and still
[1:38:59] build it, then that gives them the
[1:39:02] impact instead of their neighbor because
[1:39:04] then if there's a baby crying in the
[1:39:06] middle of the night in that little
[1:39:07] detached ADU, they're going to hear it
[1:39:09] more than their neighbor's going to hear
[1:39:10] it. Something like that. That would kind
[1:39:12] of be my thoughts on how do we make sure
[1:39:15] that we're giving the opportunity but
[1:39:17] also protecting the next door neighbor
[1:39:20] from negative impacts.
[1:39:21] >> Sure.
[1:39:23] >> The building height in the code here is
[1:39:26] what 20 ft
[1:39:29] >> for a pitched roof and 14 for a flat. So
[1:39:33] if you did the one for one like you're
[1:39:35] talking about commercial zones, that
[1:39:37] would mean a pitch roof would need to be
[1:39:39] 20 feet from the from a property line
[1:39:43] which now
[1:39:45] protects neighbors from that
[1:39:47] encroachment and would ne would probably
[1:39:51] in the code we have 10 ft. Uh building
[1:39:55] code you can't go below six, right?
[1:39:58] >> Yeah.
[1:39:59] So the minimum we could go for an
[1:40:02] accessory
[1:40:03] structure would be six feet from the
[1:40:06] from a property
[1:40:07] >> from the existing home. Yeah.
[1:40:09] >> Yeah.
[1:40:10] Because then building code issues
[1:40:12] come in and
[1:40:13] >> and I I totally get that. Yeah. And to
[1:40:15] me I'm more comfortable with kind of
[1:40:17] that because once again this should be
[1:40:19] not noticed by anyone. You know, that's
[1:40:22] why the internal ADUs work out so well
[1:40:24] is because really if you got the parking
[1:40:26] then you don't have the
[1:40:28] >> and I I do think ultimately
[1:40:31] I I I think I'm reasonably sure that
[1:40:36] internal ADUs will also continue to be
[1:40:39] more popular. They're just generally
[1:40:40] easier to to to do. Um although if if
[1:40:45] I'm wrong, the the conversations that
[1:40:47] I've had with other planners is that the
[1:40:48] thing that's going to change all of this
[1:40:50] or that's going to make that not the
[1:40:51] case is the advent of these buy it on
[1:40:54] Amazon, have it crane dropped into your
[1:40:56] backyard on a pad, pretty easy, clad it
[1:40:59] with something. And that's going to
[1:41:00] change all that. It's stick building was
[1:41:03] much more expensive than remodeling your
[1:41:05] basement to make it meets building
[1:41:06] codes. But that's changing. So go ahead.
[1:41:10] um
[1:41:11] we have dinner ready for us and take a
[1:41:14] but I don't know what the rest of your
[1:41:16] presentation I want to make sure that we
[1:41:17] break in an appropriate point for a
[1:41:19] quick blessing on the food and and grab
[1:41:20] our dinner but
[1:41:21] >> this is as boring as this so you can
[1:41:25] >> this is as good as good as this gets
[1:41:28] asked council member if she would offer
[1:41:31] a blessing on the food
[1:41:35] >> and dear father in heaven we're so
[1:41:36] grateful this day that we can gather
[1:41:37] together in this free country to have a
[1:41:39] meeting and discuss what's in the best
[1:41:40] interest of our city. We're grateful
[1:41:42] today also for the food and we ask that
[1:41:43] you please bless it and bless us to have
[1:41:45] wisdom as we continue throughout this
[1:41:47] night. And we say this in the name of
[1:41:48] Jesus Christ. Amen.
[1:41:49] >> Amen. Thank you. I didn't know if there
[1:41:52] was there was going to be like a time
[1:41:53] before you do an interpretive dance or
[1:41:55] >> Oh, there's no dancing
[1:41:56] >> like that. Okay.
[1:41:58] >> Not legally allowed to dance.
[1:42:04] » Exactly.
[1:42:04] >> That's part of the dance class. I can
[1:42:08] you can take a break and grab your
[1:42:09] dinners if you want. You want to do
[1:42:10] that? like it is like 5
[1:44:44] You don't want your sweater on anymore?
[1:44:46] It might be cool inside.
[1:44:50] >> We can take it with us.
[1:45:10] How are you guys? You're kind. Thank
[1:45:12] you, sir. Let me get that for you. Yeah,
[1:45:15] there you go. Please.
[1:45:27] Oh, sorry.
[1:47:02] We're going to wait for just a second
[1:47:04] for Jen to get back. Council member
[1:47:06] Goom.
[1:47:17] Take a peek.
[1:50:00] just this I have a couple more of these
[1:50:02] slides that show kind of where it is.
[1:50:04] But um so I'll do that and then we can
[1:50:05] talk about what we want to come back
[1:50:07] with and maybe some other potentials or
[1:50:09] other things we want to talk. This is
[1:50:11] just another culde-sac lot where you
[1:50:12] could locate again two for the primary
[1:50:14] dwelling. you do too for this 850
[1:50:17] footer. You could put that back here
[1:50:18] without too much trouble. Um, here's a
[1:50:21] slightly more complicated culde-sac lot
[1:50:23] on aore
[1:50:25] shaped lot. A little harder to locate,
[1:50:27] but they still if we're at six from the
[1:50:30] house here, you can make it at 10 from
[1:50:31] the house. It's probably shrink the
[1:50:33] footprint, but again, you can do these
[1:50:35] two two parking spaces and maybe get two
[1:50:37] more. It might be a little tricky. You
[1:50:38] don't have to do tandem, but make it
[1:50:40] work. So the the thing that we wanted to
[1:50:43] show was kind of exactly what came up
[1:50:45] was wanted to show the other houses
[1:50:47] around. So you have to imagine here's
[1:50:48] the house that I live in. I'm building
[1:50:50] this thousand foot guest house, guest
[1:50:53] cottage, accessory dwelling unit. This
[1:50:56] is this other person's house. Um so
[1:50:59] relevant to that height discussion, this
[1:51:02] footprint is one thing, you know, taking
[1:51:03] up the space, but the height of it is a
[1:51:05] whole other matter. So that that
[1:51:08] proximity is what if I'm hearing you
[1:51:10] right, Len, is what's been concerning to
[1:51:12] you.
[1:51:12] >> The proximity of another structure here
[1:51:14] that's maybe taller and is much closer
[1:51:16] to this house this has ever been. Not
[1:51:20] that they couldn't do an addition here
[1:51:21] or something and probably meet some
[1:51:23] setbacks, but still this is different, a
[1:51:25] separate guest house and we live in
[1:51:26] there all the time. So um I think that's
[1:51:29] my second to last one and we can talk
[1:51:30] about different changes. And this is a
[1:51:33] little interior lot. It's a smaller lot,
[1:51:35] just barely over the 11,000. Well, 12196
[1:51:37] actually just a big house. Um, 850 ft²,
[1:51:40] you could locate it back there.
[1:51:43] A lot of those Amazon deals I've been
[1:51:45] talking about are like 600 ft. They're a
[1:51:47] little smaller than this. Anybody, any
[1:51:49] one of these could accommodate one of
[1:51:50] those. Uh, but again, you have proximity
[1:51:53] to this house here, back a back lot
[1:51:55] house right there, and this folk this house here. This folks, these folks
[1:52:01] are going to see that more than than
[1:52:02] they would have otherwise. Those are my
[1:52:05] only um slides about that. Um relevant
[1:52:09] to the idea of height. Again, this is
[1:52:11] not a real tall structure. So, if we if
[1:52:13] we went a different direction on height
[1:52:15] and tried to look at uh a kind of a
[1:52:18] graded height like L was talking about,
[1:52:21] would you like to see what that might
[1:52:22] look like for these? We could uh we
[1:52:24] could take a look at that, bring it back
[1:52:26] uh to a work session and talk about
[1:52:28] gradating the height from relating it to
[1:52:31] distance from property lights starting
[1:52:33] at that 10 and going up from there. Uh
[1:52:35] is that something that's interesting? I
[1:52:36] need to hear if that's something that
[1:52:38] I'd like to see.
[1:52:38] >> So I think it's important makes it see
[1:52:41] that too.
[1:52:42] >> Yeah. And this again looking at these it
[1:52:45] probably won't be hard to accommodate.
[1:52:46] It's not going to keep anybody from
[1:52:47] getting to do it. think just looking at
[1:52:49] the kinds of units if these are the
[1:52:51] kinds of units you want to see. Now, we
[1:52:54] do get people coming in and calling in
[1:52:56] sometimes saying, "Well, why can't I
[1:52:58] have two stories for my accessory
[1:53:00] dwelling unit or why can't I put a a
[1:53:02] unit over my garage or why can't I have
[1:53:04] this tall?" Because of those reasons. We
[1:53:06] don't want to intrude upon other other
[1:53:08] properties that are adjacent. They don't
[1:53:10] love that. They don't accept that
[1:53:12] necessarily, but if that's the goal that
[1:53:15] these kinds of units, if that's the
[1:53:17] goal, these can be easily accommodated
[1:53:19] with a gradated height. Take a look at
[1:53:21] that. Is that something? Is there
[1:53:22] anything else in there we ought to look
[1:53:22] at? And bringing it back to you and
[1:53:24] we'll bring we'll come whatever other
[1:53:26] work session you're willing to invite us
[1:53:27] to and we'll talk about changes to it.
[1:53:29] >> Is the height and the setback if we
[1:53:31] could even on the larger lots
[1:53:34] >> kind of. So once again, they're going to
[1:53:36] try to put it in the very back corner so
[1:53:38] they don't feel the impact. I almost
[1:53:40] feel like
[1:53:41] find some type of a range that puts it
[1:53:43] closer to their house. I mean, maybe on
[1:53:46] the really big ones, you say you have to
[1:53:48] put it within 20 feet of your house and
[1:53:50] still have 40 ft behind you. You know,
[1:53:52] if there's a really big lot instead of
[1:53:54] just
[1:53:55] >> okay,
[1:53:56] >> sticking it back there.
[1:53:56] >> So, explore like a range of a location
[1:53:59] range
[1:53:59] >> location relative relative to the house.
[1:54:02] >> Starting with the house is the point as
[1:54:04] opposed to the property.
[1:54:06] >> Okay. That's kind of
[1:54:07] >> you can't be located a certain you can't
[1:54:09] be located further than X from your
[1:54:11] house for example.
[1:54:13] >> Well, so I want to be flexible with that
[1:54:14] but at the same time depend that that
[1:54:17] would depend on how close it is to the
[1:54:19] house behind. So you're still 50 ft from
[1:54:22] the yard behind
[1:54:23] >> then I don't care if you're 20 30t from
[1:54:25] the house but
[1:54:26] >> it's this is
[1:54:28] >> you know challenge. It is a it is a
[1:54:31] challenge, but I again it's one that you
[1:54:33] can't really can't really can't worry
[1:54:36] too much about it because the the
[1:54:37] challenge I was going to bring up is the
[1:54:38] same one that happens with these
[1:54:40] distance rules like 20 ft between you
[1:54:42] can't locate an accessory structure
[1:54:44] closer than 20 ft to a dwelling on
[1:54:46] another lot. So somebody locates their
[1:54:48] garage, their detached garage, and then
[1:54:51] gentleman B from the lot next door wants
[1:54:53] to add on to his house
[1:54:55] >> and it's going to put it too close to
[1:54:56] this guy's garage. And I say, "Well, I'm
[1:54:58] sorry. You can't add on to your house
[1:54:59] now. can't limited me,
[1:55:01] >> right?
[1:55:01] >> You can't really avoid that conflict. It
[1:55:03] happens and we we'd be in the same kind
[1:55:06] of conflicting area. Well, you got to if
[1:55:07] you're not too close to this other
[1:55:08] house, we don't care until that other
[1:55:10] house adds on. So, we have to really
[1:55:12] look at what they're able to add on. So
[1:55:13] what you're doing and that is such a
[1:55:15] great example because what what I see
[1:55:17] right now by basing the setback on the nearby dwelling
[1:55:22] >> is you are taking their property away
[1:55:25] from their ability to develop their
[1:55:28] property away from them so the person
[1:55:30] across the fence can develop their
[1:55:32] property. Right.
[1:55:33] >> So that's why I think if we could do
[1:55:35] something more from a property line
[1:55:37] basis that impacts the property that has it, then we're going to avoid those
[1:55:42] problems down the road. Because frankly,
[1:55:44] I'm going to be a little miffed if I buy
[1:55:47] a house thinking that I'm going to be
[1:55:48] able to add on. Then the city comes and
[1:55:50] says, "Oh, by the way, you can't because
[1:55:52] there's this 12ft high dwelling,
[1:55:55] you know, 10 ft from your property line
[1:55:57] and you can't do that." Now,
[1:55:59] >> we we probably want to do something.
[1:56:01] Maybe we could look at doing something
[1:56:03] like uh we could base a requirement for
[1:56:07] an accessory dwelling, you know, like
[1:56:08] this, not solely on setbacks from
[1:56:11] property lines. It could have several
[1:56:12] setback requirements, right? Within a
[1:56:14] certain proximity to your pro primary
[1:56:16] dwelling, not further than, for example,
[1:56:18] and not closer than to a property line
[1:56:21] and not closer than not to the dwelling
[1:56:23] on the adjacent lot, but to the setback
[1:56:25] that's adjacent to it, to an adjacent
[1:56:27] setback line. So you add add 10 ft to
[1:56:31] that line or something. You say they're
[1:56:32] their rear yard setback in the zoning is
[1:56:34] 25 ft. Your place can't your new place
[1:56:37] here could never be closer than 35 ft or
[1:56:40] 40 ft to that setback line. So that if
[1:56:43] they're not built to it now, but they
[1:56:44] want to in the future, they're not going
[1:56:45] to have a problem. See what I mean?
[1:56:47] >> I would love to see what that looks like
[1:56:48] cuz right now I'm a little confused by
[1:56:50] what you said.
[1:56:50] >> So would I and I think someone else
[1:56:51] should write it. [laughter]
[1:56:53] Talk to
[1:56:53] >> Aaron. I kind of get it. But you know
[1:56:55] what? Like if this was the 10-ft
[1:56:58] requirement,
[1:56:59] >> yeah,
[1:56:59] >> that you the ordinance would say this
[1:57:02] 10-ft line
[1:57:04] >> affects the setbacks there, not where
[1:57:06] this
[1:57:07] >> not not the location of the house, but
[1:57:08] the setback that it could meet in the
[1:57:10] future, right? That's exactly right.
[1:57:12] >> I think we could do that. Um the
[1:57:14] question becomes and we we can take a
[1:57:16] look at how that would how that would
[1:57:18] pan out. We'll do the same kind of
[1:57:20] random samples and if it looks like it
[1:57:22] would be what we only want to be careful
[1:57:24] of is that it not
[1:57:26] um not fall a foul of the writers
[1:57:28] >> in prohibitive is if they can't do a
[1:57:31] minimum 200 square foot type agency
[1:57:34] >> right I mean it can always go that's the
[1:57:35] other thing they can always go small
[1:57:36] >> clients right
[1:57:37] >> it can always go smaller as long as we
[1:57:39] don't fall foul of whatever unreasonably
[1:57:41] means here then we should be okay and I
[1:57:43] don't again I we had some conversations
[1:57:46] internally as staff about this kind of
[1:57:48] thing and uh just and it makes sense for
[1:57:51] the larger groups too we had them with
[1:57:52] the planning commission as well bear in
[1:57:55] mind that there there will be properties
[1:57:57] as much as this opens up the ability for
[1:58:00] 5,800 or 5,800 lots that are 11,000 ft²
[1:58:03] or bigger. We haven't found any yet that
[1:58:05] couldn't accommodate one with the what
[1:58:07] we wrote. And even when we change the
[1:58:09] writing and make it a little bit more
[1:58:10] restrictive, we still probably won't
[1:58:12] find a lot. But there will be some. But
[1:58:15] the the the requirement is not that
[1:58:17] every single lot be allowed to do a
[1:58:19] detached AU. And remember that those
[1:58:23] that do wind up not being eligible for
[1:58:25] detached ADU, they're still eligible for
[1:58:27] an internal ADU. They're not barred out
[1:58:30] of the system. They just might not get
[1:58:31] to have it be
[1:58:32] >> going to say cuz that house right there
[1:58:33] looks like a pretty big house.
[1:58:35] >> You could definitely put was retired and
[1:58:38] I'm empty nest or everything and I
[1:58:39] complain that, you know, I need to get
[1:58:40] some additional income. I could easily
[1:58:43] do an internal ADU in that home. I'm
[1:58:45] guessing
[1:58:45] >> my neighbors I have three neighbors who
[1:58:47] have added them onto their homes and we
[1:58:49] don't have that big a house.
[1:58:51] >> Yeah, exactly. And these are the
[1:58:52] maximums. They're not you don't if if it
[1:58:54] didn't quite fit, you could always
[1:58:55] shrink that a little bit, do a different
[1:58:56] unit. There lots of options,
[1:58:58] >> but there's an issue that I've
[1:59:03] just thought of with all this and it's
[1:59:05] one of these things that why we wish we
[1:59:07] had more time from the state that we
[1:59:10] might need to think of is it has to hook
[1:59:12] into utilities. Yeah.
[1:59:14] >> So, one reality of utilities, you could
[1:59:16] have a home like this and where the
[1:59:19] utility, I don't know if this is a
[1:59:21] through street or not. They may hook
[1:59:23] into say sewer here,
[1:59:27] but the only place for this really
[1:59:30] feasibly to hook into the sewer might be
[1:59:32] out here. And because of the depth of
[1:59:34] the sewer, they may want to bring in a
[1:59:37] whole bunch of fill.
[1:59:39] >> Oh, don't go down that road.
[1:59:40] >> And [laughter] and I think we probably
[1:59:42] need to look at some of those issues too
[1:59:46] that they can't and a detach accessory
[1:59:51] dwelling unit cannot
[1:59:53] raise the grade
[1:59:54] >> right that's
[1:59:56] >> existing grade
[1:59:58] >> so many phone calls right now on those
[1:59:59] other home
[2:00:00] >> yeah that's a good point
[2:00:02] >> yeah because when you're putting it in
[2:00:04] the backyard oftent times especially if
[2:00:07] you're on a corner lot the nearest sewer
[2:00:10] that you can hook into may not be
[2:00:13] the one that the main home is or it may
[2:00:16] because of topography at a different
[2:00:18] elevation
[2:00:21] and that you know so that's something
[2:00:22] we're going to have to think through we
[2:00:24] can we can there's a there's a natural
[2:00:26] place to add that language Gary where we create the required statement
[2:00:30] that you
[2:00:32] >> that that you can or the the allowed
[2:00:34] statement that we review your utility
[2:00:35] access and stuff we'll put it in there
[2:00:37] about
[2:00:38] >> grade it's just hard to do so I think
[2:00:40] you should go into timeout brought
[2:00:44] So you're seeing how the sausitude's
[2:00:45] made at community development with me
[2:00:48] and Jared. [laughter]
[2:00:50] >> I want to see meetings. They sound
[2:00:51] entertaining.
[2:00:52] >> Five or six more months from the state
[2:00:54] to get it adopted correctly.
[2:00:56] >> We're going to swing and we might miss a
[2:00:58] little bit. We'll we'll fix. But
[2:01:00] anything we can find in advance great
[2:01:02] because that's perfect. I hadn't thought
[2:01:03] of that at all.
[2:01:05] >> Well, let us take a look. If it's all
[2:01:06] right, then we'll we'll go back and look
[2:01:07] at graded height starting lower at at
[2:01:10] basing setbacks in three points from the house itself from property
[2:01:15] lines and from setback lines on other
[2:01:17] properties and then grade issues too,
[2:01:20] Gary. We'll take a look at that. Any
[2:01:21] other things that were missing in there
[2:01:22] or does the other stuff work for you?
[2:01:26] >> Chair, this is Quinn.
[2:01:29] Um, I I mentioned this last time. Uh,
[2:01:31] you talked about this, but it would just
[2:01:33] still be helpful for me to understand
[2:01:35] lessons from cities that have detached
[2:01:39] ADU ordinances on the books. I I'm just
[2:01:42] really curious in our ability to
[2:01:44] estimate what percent of that those
[2:01:46] 5,800
[2:01:48] uh lots um may may be interested in this
[2:01:52] over time.
[2:01:53] >> Um, yeah. And I I'm also interested in
[2:01:56] knowing what what is our current number
[2:01:57] of ADUs if anybody knows that.
[2:02:00] >> Our current list of ex of detach we
[2:02:03] haven't had any but the internal ADUs.
[2:02:05] That's a that's a good question. I
[2:02:06] should have that number in my head and I
[2:02:08] don't but I'll get it.
[2:02:10] >> Thank you.
[2:02:11] >> And then we'd have to distinguish
[2:02:12] between ADUs that are licensed and legal
[2:02:15] and those that are just sort of
[2:02:20] » like volunteers.
[2:02:21] >> Seems like it's they're not licensed.
[2:02:23] only a few hundred.
[2:02:25] >> They're they're not as I mean I I've
[2:02:28] administered I I think I mentioned this
[2:02:29] to the planning commission. I
[2:02:30] administered two codes previously that
[2:02:32] both allowed to detach accessory
[2:02:34] dwelling units. I had never processed
[2:02:36] one just because they're difficult to
[2:02:37] do. They're more difficult to do and
[2:02:39] they're more expensive and is getting
[2:02:40] cheaper. Uh but we had you know 30 or
[2:02:43] 40. We allowed ADUs internally to use
[2:02:45] for 10 15 years. We only had 30 or 40.
[2:02:48] ORM has a lot comparatively um to other
[2:02:51] cities I think you'll find. And most of
[2:02:53] the guys I've talked to in other
[2:02:55] planning departments that have allowed
[2:02:56] detached accessory dwelling units,
[2:02:58] they've got a few. They're not as
[2:03:00] prevalent as as you'd think, but I'll check around.
[2:03:03] >> I would be curious to know if those were
[2:03:05] built at the time of construction of the
[2:03:08] house.
[2:03:08] >> Yeah, cuz we're built out. Ours is going
[2:03:11] to be all retrofit stuff, right? So,
[2:03:14] that's a whole different
[2:03:15] >> A lot of a lot of new home designs come
[2:03:17] in ready made for ADUs. They don't
[2:03:20] necessarily pull the trigger on doing it
[2:03:21] at first, but they build them and their their home builder, Ivory, or
[2:03:26] whoever's doing it is advising them, you
[2:03:27] want to do this cuz in the future you
[2:03:28] might want to do it, you know, might as
[2:03:30] well do it now. And they just don't pull
[2:03:32] the trigger on on getting the license.
[2:03:34] And so we do these second kitchen
[2:03:35] covenants with them instead.
[2:03:37] >> Well, and I'm talking detached.
[2:03:38] >> Yeah, the detached ones.
[2:03:41] See, it'll all be retrofitted to
[2:03:42] everyone
[2:03:43] >> too that I think if you were to go to
[2:03:45] Provo and look in some of their older
[2:03:47] neighborhoods where they have like from
[2:03:49] the
[2:03:50] >> Oh, good point. Yeah.
[2:03:50] >> over 100 years ago where they had a
[2:03:53] detached garage that was just naturally
[2:03:55] part of the
[2:03:57] >> of the house and the design.
[2:03:59] >> We don't see that as much in Orm as the
[2:04:03] >> I'll check with that's a good
[2:04:04] suggestion. Thank you. Anybody who wants
[2:04:06] a tour, I can take you on a tour of
[2:04:09] areas that have those and see a bunch.
[2:04:12] >> I'd like one, Gary.
[2:04:14] >> No, [laughter]
[2:04:17] sounds good to me. Okay. So, we'll go
[2:04:20] back and look at those things and we'll
[2:04:21] bring it back. Quinn, I'll get those
[2:04:22] numbers for you and we'll check around
[2:04:24] with the other cities, too. I didn't
[2:04:25] have a chance to do that yet, but I
[2:04:26] remember you asking about it. uh the
[2:04:28] ones that I checked with so far, no
[2:04:29] success,
[2:04:31] >> but I'll I'll check with
[2:04:32] >> I I just think it will help us
[2:04:33] understand the scale of what we're
[2:04:35] dealing with. Um and you know, the
[2:04:37] potential impacts of some of these
[2:04:39] decisions. I I think we're all sensitive
[2:04:42] to the potential for impacts,
[2:04:44] particularly as Len was mentioning on on
[2:04:46] neighbors who don't have any choice
[2:04:47] about this. But, uh if it's if it's
[2:04:50] really going to be just a very small
[2:04:52] number over time, I think that might
[2:04:54] help shape the decisions we make.
[2:04:57] Great. Thank you. I'll get that data.
[2:04:59] >> Great. Anything else, council?
[2:05:02] >> Thank you.
[2:05:04] >> Yes, mayor. Uh, not related to this, but
[2:05:07] and up. We told you we'd come back with
[2:05:09] some information. Uh, if you remember,
[2:05:12] the council looked at an ordinance
[2:05:14] dealing with the radius of noticing that
[2:05:18] we do. Uh, we do 1,000 ft to go to 2,000
[2:05:22] ft. And the question was, what was that?
[2:05:24] wasn't a big deal to quickly run the
[2:05:26] numbers on two projects that uh you just
[2:05:29] recently dealt with. Remember the neater
[2:05:32] property and the uh home at home?
[2:05:37] >> Home built. Yeah, home built. Uh the
[2:05:40] noticing at 1,000 ft that we did was
[2:05:44] $346.
[2:05:46] If uh we had gone to 2,000 and noticed
[2:05:49] it, it would be $850.
[2:05:53] And then the property that the city
[2:05:56] owns, uh, that reszone at 1,000 ft, the
[2:06:00] cost was $443.
[2:06:03] If we had done 2,000 ft radius, it it
[2:06:07] would have been $949.
[2:06:10] It's
[2:06:10] >> like about $500.
[2:06:12] >> Yeah, it's a little slightly more than
[2:06:15] double.
[2:06:16] >> Okay.
[2:06:17] But the the costs are relatively
[2:06:20] uh small and for better noticing and uh
[2:06:25] visibility and transparency for the
[2:06:27] community. It I I don't see it terrible.
[2:06:32] >> So 2,000 ft then.
[2:06:34] >> Yeah. And that's that's what we did. So
[2:06:36] ju just we told you we'd come back with
[2:06:38] those numbers and just
[2:06:39] >> I appreciate that.
[2:06:40] >> Let you know.
[2:06:43] >> All right.
[2:06:44] >> Gary, that's great. And I'm I'm
[2:06:46] delighted that those are small numbers.
[2:06:47] Does that include staff time as well?
[2:06:51] >> Uh on that is posted
[2:06:54] >> that's just posted but it doesn't uh
[2:06:57] less than an hour. It's not that.
[2:07:01] >> Yeah.
[2:07:02] >> Having done that part of having that
[2:07:04] chapter in my life too being at that pay
[2:07:07] grade where I slap bailing labels on.
[2:07:10] >> You should see us stuff envelopes
[2:07:11] >> and stuff envelope. I'm a good envelope
[2:07:13] stuffer.
[2:07:13] >> Something to see. We bought a machine.
[2:07:16] >> We get AI to do that. What is wrong with
[2:07:17] this case?
[2:07:19] >> Yeah, we we bought a machine that takes
[2:07:21] the
[2:07:22] >> the flyer, stuffs it uh folds it and
[2:07:26] stuffs it into the envelope and then we
[2:07:28] just mail it.
[2:07:29] >> You name it the intern. [laughter]
[2:07:33] » We we affectionately call it Jared.
[2:07:39] The worst the worst part of it of
[2:07:41] stuffing the envelopes is actually the
[2:07:42] machine is good enough that the worst
[2:07:43] part is the putting the little sticker
[2:07:45] labels on all the envelopes is the only
[2:07:47] thing worse than putting those stickers
[2:07:48] on the envelopes is trying to get
[2:07:50] technology to an actual mail merch.
[2:07:54] [laughter]
[2:07:55] >> Nobody can make I don't believe it's
[2:07:57] ever been done.
[2:08:00] >> Thank you.
[2:08:00] >> Grace is the queen of mail.
[2:08:01] >> You want to do that?
[2:08:03] >> Come fix us.
[2:08:05] >> That's right. I just pulled up our 80s
[2:08:07] list from our website. There's 859 ADUs.
[2:08:10] >> Oh, you good to Oh, wow. That's
[2:08:12] >> And then in our last business or our
[2:08:15] building permit report for the month of
[2:08:18] this is through May out of
[2:08:21] 20 new single family homes.
[2:08:25] Five of them are being built with an ADU
[2:08:29] in it.
[2:08:30] >> That means that they applied for an ADU.
[2:08:32] The other one's going to be fitted for
[2:08:33] one but not applying.
[2:08:34] >> Correct. Yeah,
[2:08:35] >> that means they're building them with
[2:08:36] >> they're building with the building
[2:08:39] >> uh home builders now design a home so
[2:08:43] that it either has the ADU in it when
[2:08:46] they build it or it can very easily be
[2:08:49] converted.
[2:08:50] >> So that's what's happening behind me.
[2:08:52] All six of them have the basement
[2:08:54] entrance, but they haven't put in the
[2:08:56] dividing door,
[2:08:58] >> right? So,
[2:08:59] >> and that's easy.
[2:09:00] >> The space and then if they want to,
[2:09:02] they're going to put that door and then
[2:09:04] you have two spaces.
[2:09:06] >> All right. Thank you.
[2:09:07] >> Thanks.
[2:09:08] >> Um, quickly go through our this
[2:09:11] evening's agenda. We've got several items under uh mayor's items
[2:09:18] you've heard by council. We have a
[2:09:20] presentation on national night out
[2:09:23] and then we speech. That's the only one.
[2:09:27] and then personal appearances. And then
[2:09:30] we have a consent items which is uh for
[2:09:32] approval of the meeting minutes and then
[2:09:34] the appointment of Brian Wait to the
[2:09:36] advance advisory commission.
[2:09:38] >> He will probably be here this evening.
[2:09:40] We could maybe acknowledge him stand or
[2:09:43] something.
[2:09:43] >> Okay.
[2:09:44] >> Then we have a scheduled public hearing.
[2:09:47] It's uh reszone that was before us a
[2:09:51] little while back and we and the
[2:09:54] applicant asked if they could come back
[2:09:55] and put a road with Geneva Road if you
[2:10:00] remember that. Um I do have a question
[2:10:03] about this that I'd rather ask you to
[2:10:06] hear than to take up time out there for
[2:10:08] Jared.
[2:10:09] >> I'm right back here. Sorry.
[2:10:11] >> Okay. Um, I've been looking at the PRD
[2:10:14] ordinance
[2:10:16] and the PRD ordinance requires certain
[2:10:20] building materials and different front
[2:10:22] elevations.
[2:10:23] >> Yeah.
[2:10:23] >> Is that still with the within what the
[2:10:25] state law allows?
[2:10:27] >> PRDs are exempt from that state.
[2:10:29] >> Okay.
[2:10:29] >> And a PRD when they're signing up for
[2:10:31] it, you can make them do whatever.
[2:10:33] >> Okay. That was my question. I just
[2:10:35] wanted to make sure that
[2:10:36] >> Good question
[2:10:37] >> that. So, it looks like they still need
[2:10:40] >> they need 60 40% on the backside. They
[2:10:42] haven't shown that right.
[2:10:43] >> They haven't shown that correctly. So,
[2:10:46] they'll put something on there. Okay.
[2:10:48] >> All right. I'm
[2:10:49] >> so proud of them for getting over the
[2:10:50] road hurdle that I didn't want to hassle
[2:10:52] too much about the 40% of the backside.
[2:10:53] So,
[2:10:54] >> yeah, that one I have a question on
[2:10:56] that.
[2:10:56] >> Okay. And probably here's a good place
[2:10:57] to
[2:10:59] >> um masonry fence
[2:11:02] >> between the commercial residential. I
[2:11:04] was aware of that. I didn't really see
[2:11:06] that mentioned. Yeah, that that would be
[2:11:07] part of it. It's it's it's got to be
[2:11:09] part of the plan that they do. We'll get
[2:11:11] that in the site plan. It didn't show on
[2:11:13] this on the concept plan very well, but
[2:11:14] we do.
[2:11:15] >> Great. And then do we we don't require
[2:11:17] CCN?
[2:11:18] >> We don't except that because the PRD
[2:11:21] will have the shared lot lines. They'll
[2:11:23] have the shared they'll have the zero
[2:11:24] lot lines and they'll have the shared
[2:11:25] parking. They'll have to have one anyway
[2:11:27] because they're going to share property
[2:11:28] for the parking.
[2:11:30] >> They'll have to have an HOA governor at
[2:11:31] least that.
[2:11:32] >> Oh, yeah. Yep. So, they need to know
[2:11:34] that. require it, but they'll that's
[2:11:35] their
[2:11:36] >> and they'll be told that.
[2:11:38] >> Oh, yeah.
[2:11:38] >> I had that conversation there.
[2:11:40] >> Well, that's not surprising that they'd
[2:11:42] understand that.
[2:11:44] >> Um, and then my other Oh, here's Okay,
[2:11:47] so we had appendix KK that was Farm
[2:11:50] Haven.
[2:11:50] >> Well, appendix KK is actually a whole
[2:11:52] bunch of this all of Appendix KK
[2:11:55] contains all of the PRD site concept
[2:11:57] plans.
[2:11:58] >> Oh, okay. So, I guess my question is, do
[2:11:59] you are you keeping the Farm Haven
[2:12:01] iteration in there and we're showing
[2:12:03] that it was replaced?
[2:12:04] >> Yeah, exit out and
[2:12:07] >> they'll both be there.
[2:12:09] >> Be there, but the one Farm Haven should
[2:12:11] be xed out because not it won't be in
[2:12:12] effect after tonight.
[2:12:14] >> But if someone wants to go back and
[2:12:15] reference it, they can go see
[2:12:17] our
[2:12:18] >> I had that question. Um,
[2:12:20] >> okay, last question on our visitor
[2:12:23] parking.
[2:12:24] You said we're within
[2:12:26] >> Yeah. 2.5 is required there. Seven
[2:12:29] >> because I noticed from Wester from Farm
[2:12:31] Haven to Westerly Way, they reduced it
[2:12:33] by half.
[2:12:34] >> The parking
[2:12:36] >> from the uh Yeah,
[2:12:37] >> the percent the density is the same, but
[2:12:39] the parking's
[2:12:41] >> I I didn't analyze the parking. So,
[2:12:43] >> they So, they were just adding more it
[2:12:45] sounds like on Farm Haven. Okay. So, but
[2:12:47] we're good on all of that.
[2:12:48] >> It does meet the code requirement for
[2:12:50] the 2.5. Yeah,
[2:12:51] >> we're good. Thank you. Any other
[2:12:53] questions on this item here?
[2:12:58] Any other questions on anything that's
[2:13:00] on the agenda?
[2:13:02] >> We do not have a closed meeting. Well,
[2:13:04] we do have a closed meeting.
[2:13:15] » Right. We got 15.
[2:13:22] I think well that wraps up the work
[2:13:23] session then we'll see you all in the in
[2:13:27] the regular meeting
[2:13:30] to it. Thanks everyone.
[2:13:32] >> Have a motion to adjurnn.
[2:13:34] >> Oh motion to adjurnn.
[2:13:35] >> Have a motion to adjurnn. Is there a
[2:13:37] second?
[2:13:38] >> Right. All those in favor say.
[2:13:40] >> I
[2:13:42] >> thank you.
[2:13:45] [clears throat]
[2:13:48] We do need to make sure that we have at
[2:13:49] least one person online. So, we have a
[2:13:51] form.
[2:13:53] >> I said I
[2:13:57] >> And I said I
[2:14:04] [clears throat]
[2:14:04] >> may as well.
[2:14:08] I should
[2:14:17] » talk
[2:14:26] about
[2:14:31] weird thing.
[2:14:38] Hey,
[2:14:39] >> recording's off.
[2:14:42] I got to move in.
[2:14:46] >> So, it's not recording in here.
[2:14:47] >> I got to move it over.
[2:14:49] >> Give me a job.
[2:14:59] » You know what? I think
[2:15:01] about
[2:15:03] anything, but that was a community
[2:15:05] action.
[2:15:07] I had flashes of it was never all fun
[2:15:10] because of the responsibilities I had.
[2:15:12] >> Yeah. I mean,
[2:15:13] >> see, I don't have
[2:15:15] >> responsibilities now.
[2:15:19] As far as a CEO or something,
[2:15:33] that's right.
[2:15:56] Shel
[2:16:06] 30 seconds.
[2:16:17] I just
[2:16:20] need to hear
[2:16:39] test test.
[2:17:24] Want to know what you think?
[2:18:05] Feels
[2:18:18] too tight here.
[2:18:21] >> When we have three chairs,
[2:18:24] >> sometimes we need to go
[2:18:29] chairs be.
[2:18:31] >> No, no. after
[2:18:36] » you can't really stick it there for ALJ.
[2:18:39] I just stick it under there because
[2:18:40] nobody
[2:18:42] sits there.
[2:18:59] You want me to roll it out?
[2:19:35] Hey, could I try it?
[2:19:44] Are you on Zoom right now?
[2:19:48] YouTube start off.
[2:19:59] Um well
[2:20:16] Wait, I'm getting serious.
[2:20:22] » Oh, sorry.
[2:20:28] » It's just my laptop and it's not coming
[2:20:30] through the speakers.
[2:20:36] » Maybe I could change my speakers.
[2:20:51] Let me try this.
[2:20:59] » No, you don't get anything if it's on
[2:21:00] press.
[2:21:02] >> Wait, am I on display?
[2:21:10] magazine.
[2:21:12] I don't think it works.
[2:21:48] How are you?
[2:21:49] >> What time are we at?
[2:21:56] » Can you hear me? Okay. Just testing.
[2:22:00] >> Yeah, we got you.
[2:22:02] Thank you, counselor. I'll put it back.
[2:22:48] All right, put me back on. We're going
[2:22:50] to try it again.
[2:23:08] Keep it planting.
[2:23:14] Sorry.
[2:23:26] We're watching Taking My Son to Japanese
[2:23:27] Daycare.
[2:23:28] >> Yes.
[2:23:34] » And right now it's not
[2:23:50] All
[2:23:57] right.
[2:24:15] Yes.
[2:24:31] Yeah,
[2:24:41] » he keeps trying to run away.
[2:24:43] >> Just uh meeting with them was really
[2:24:45] nice.
[2:25:02] I think they're there.
[2:25:25] Yes. So prayer.
[2:25:28] Where do you want us?
[2:25:29] >> You just come up here. Come night.
[2:25:48] Let me see.
[2:25:51] Started
[2:26:06] simple sentence
[2:26:15] already.
[2:26:39] I don't think
[2:26:50] Hey,
[2:27:06] give me a second.
[2:27:49] Come on little buddy.
[2:28:00] » All right. Good evening. I'd like to
[2:28:02] welcome you to this evening's ORM city
[2:28:04] council meeting. Tonight is um it's
[2:28:07] still July 28th as it was this morning,
[2:28:09] 2026. I'm going to call the meeting to
[2:28:11] order. I want to acknowledge that
[2:28:14] council members Kilpac, Mulestein, and
[2:28:18] Mikum are joining us electronically and
[2:28:22] so we do have everybody here this
[2:28:24] evening. Um we go ahead and have the
[2:28:27] invocation and in or inspirational
[2:28:29] thought by Mark McCumber and pledge of
[2:28:32] allegiance by Kim McComber.
[2:28:40] Our father in heaven, we are grateful
[2:28:42] for the great blessing that we have to
[2:28:44] live in this favored land. We are
[2:28:46] grateful to celebrate this year the
[2:28:48] 250th anniversary of our founding. We
[2:28:51] are grateful uh to thee for raising up
[2:28:54] our founding fathers. You establish
[2:28:57] liberty and freedom here. We pray that
[2:28:59] bless us in our efforts to keep this
[2:29:02] republic and to and keep our freedoms
[2:29:05] and make the future bright for the next
[2:29:07] generation. We are grateful to celebrate
[2:29:10] this month as well the pioneers who came
[2:29:12] and sacrificed and and built a wonderful
[2:29:15] society that we benefit from. We are
[2:29:18] grateful for those who have served uh
[2:29:20] the city of ORM and those who serve now
[2:29:22] and pray that thou would bless them in
[2:29:24] their deliberations. And we pray in the
[2:29:26] name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
[2:29:27] >> Amen.
[2:29:36] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[2:29:40] United States of America and to the
[2:29:42] republic for which it stands, one nation
[2:29:46] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[2:29:50] justice for all.
[2:29:55] » Thank you for the um invocation and for
[2:29:59] the leading us in the pledge. Appreciate
[2:30:01] it.
[2:30:02] >> [gasps]
[2:30:02] >> All right, council. We have one
[2:30:05] [clears throat] item under mayor's
[2:30:06] report and items referred by the council
[2:30:09] and it's a presentation on National
[2:30:12] Night Out. Our presenters will be
[2:30:14] Lieutenant Blake Fan and Cameron Wilson.
[2:30:18] So turn the time over to them.
[2:30:34] us back.
[2:30:36] There we go. Thanks for having us back.
[2:30:39] I still don't like speaking in public.
[2:30:42] >> I was very excited. Um we're just here
[2:30:45] to give you a little presentation and a
[2:30:47] formal invitation to our National Night
[2:30:49] Out event.
[2:30:51] Go ahead.
[2:30:51] >> So, yeah, National Night Out, as you can
[2:30:53] see up there, it it the purpose is to
[2:30:56] enhance the relationship between the
[2:30:57] community and law enforcement. It's a
[2:30:59] chance for us to to get together and
[2:31:01] have fun with uh with the public and let
[2:31:04] them interact with us, us interact with
[2:31:06] them and just have that that rapport,
[2:31:10] that that fun time.
[2:31:13] >> It happens all around the country on the
[2:31:15] first Tuesday in August. ORM does it
[2:31:17] better than anyone else.
[2:31:19] >> We're biased, of course.
[2:31:20] >> We're heavily biased, but we're right,
[2:31:22] so it doesn't matter. Um, this is also
[2:31:24] our formal apology to the parks
[2:31:26] department for ruining your grass last
[2:31:27] year. It won't happen again.
[2:31:29] >> Yeah, there's no no foam gun machine.
[2:31:31] >> Our fun little foam machine. We thought
[2:31:33] it was great. They had to resaw and we
[2:31:36] had no idea. So, like not happening
[2:31:38] again, I promise.
[2:31:39] >> Yeah, we killed the grass for sure.
[2:31:41] >> Um, it's next Tuesday, August 4th, from
[2:31:45] 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. in the city
[2:31:47] center park. So, you see, look, look how
[2:31:50] happy Blake was right there in his
[2:31:52] element, just having fun.
[2:31:54] >> Super fun. So, yeah, some of the some of
[2:31:57] the stuff we have planned. Again, we're
[2:31:59] going to have a dunk tank. Uh we've got
[2:32:01] the swap vehicles, food trucks, uh
[2:32:04] fingerprinting.
[2:32:05] We have a helicopter. Is it a Blackhawk?
[2:32:07] It is a Blackhawk this year. Okay. Uh
[2:32:10] we're going to have the drunk goggles,
[2:32:11] the K9 team will be there. We are going
[2:32:13] to crush cars again. Uh face paint, nine
[2:32:16] square, all that stuff up there and much
[2:32:19] more. We do have a bunch of other
[2:32:20] community partners that will be there as
[2:32:22] well with booths um handing out stuff
[2:32:25] and and interacting with the public as
[2:32:27] well.
[2:32:27] >> Yeah, you can come dunk an officer. I
[2:32:29] love that picture. Lieutenant Giles's
[2:32:31] face is just
[2:32:32] >> I did that last year and if it's over
[2:32:34] 100° like it's been, I will be getting
[2:32:36] in there again.
[2:32:38] >> A couple years ago, they complained
[2:32:39] because the water was too cold. So, the
[2:32:40] fire department's coming early so the
[2:32:42] water can heat up with the sun. So
[2:32:44] they'll have a nice
[2:32:46] I've done it I've done a dog tank before
[2:32:48] and no it was bracing. It's there's
[2:32:51] nothing like that little tiny seat just
[2:32:53] go
[2:32:54] >> and you're you're toast. It's fun. It's
[2:32:56] refreshing.
[2:32:57] >> It's very refreshing. [laughter]
[2:32:59] >> Um we have some awesome community
[2:33:00] partner booths coming this year. We have
[2:33:02] a very supportive community. They love
[2:33:03] to be involved with things like this. Um
[2:33:05] it's a pretty stacked list. They're all
[2:33:07] going to do their own activities and
[2:33:09] just get out there with the public. And
[2:33:12] because ours is the best, we have a
[2:33:13] bunch of outside agencies that choose to
[2:33:15] come to ours instead of neighboring
[2:33:16] cities. So we've got highway safety,
[2:33:20] UVU, BYU, UTA, National Guard, and the
[2:33:22] Department of Commerce also coming this
[2:33:24] year for us. So
[2:33:26] >> absolutely. And you can see the list of
[2:33:28] community partners. And that's not all
[2:33:30] of them. I think we ended up with 26 25
[2:33:32] or 26 that that committed.
[2:33:34] >> And so this is everyone's official
[2:33:36] invitation August 4th. And it seems like
[2:33:39] there's some fun little giveaways that
[2:33:41] these partners have.
[2:33:43] >> Yes, they all bring Nintendo. The guy
[2:33:45] for Nintendo was like, I'm going to set
[2:33:46] up some gaming consoles. We're going to
[2:33:48] give away this and they're so excited.
[2:33:50] So, we've got some really stellar
[2:33:51] community partners that
[2:33:53] >> love to be there and support. So, it'll
[2:33:54] be a good time.
[2:33:55] >> It'll be a good time.
[2:33:56] >> Do you guys have any questions or
[2:33:57] anything you need from us?
[2:33:58] >> Oh, it's a great event. I've been
[2:34:00] attending last year and I'll be there
[2:34:02] this year.
[2:34:03] >> I do have one ask. Um, I'm wondering if
[2:34:07] you could um reach out to Wasatch Mental
[2:34:10] Health that has um counselors in some of
[2:34:13] our schools.
[2:34:14] >> I had was in a meeting with the new
[2:34:16] school district and there were some
[2:34:18] counselors there that um would h had
[2:34:21] some of their um students that were
[2:34:24] afraid of the our police were typically
[2:34:26] afraid of the police the uniform. So, I
[2:34:29] don't know if we could maybe invite
[2:34:31] them, you know, to um come and see our
[2:34:36] officers in this great environment. You
[2:34:38] guys are always very friendly, very
[2:34:40] kind, very fun,
[2:34:41] >> so they can play volleyball with y'all
[2:34:43] and
[2:34:44] >> get you get you in the dunk. So, that
[2:34:46] would be maybe an ask.
[2:34:47] >> We touched base a couple weeks ago at
[2:34:49] the reading with police event that we
[2:34:50] did and Wasatch Behavioral is coming and
[2:34:52] setting up a booth and has sent it out
[2:34:54] to their clinicians to invite their
[2:34:57] folks to come. You're already on top of
[2:34:58] that.
[2:34:58] >> I was going to say we chatted about it.
[2:34:59] I The little behavioral health
[2:35:01] specialist in me was so excited to merge
[2:35:03] those two worlds. So, it was a great
[2:35:05] idea.
[2:35:05] >> Perfect. Thank you for doing that.
[2:35:07] >> No problem. Anything else?
[2:35:10] >> Anything else, council? Anything else?
[2:35:12] Those on online or virtually?
[2:35:16] >> Guess not. Thank you. We'll see you next
[2:35:18] Tuesday.
[2:35:22] » Right. The next item on the agenda is
[2:35:24] our personal time for personal
[2:35:25] appearances. Um time has been set aside
[2:35:28] for the public to express their ideas,
[2:35:30] concerns, and comments on items not
[2:35:32] scheduled as public hearings on the
[2:35:34] agenda. Those wishing to speak are
[2:35:37] encouraged to show respect for those who
[2:35:39] serve the city. Comments should focus on
[2:35:42] issues concerning the city. And those
[2:35:44] wishing to speak have signed up already.
[2:35:47] And I have this I have the list here.
[2:35:50] And so we'll go ahead and and start with the public comments. Um the first
[2:35:57] um is Chris Hammond and after Miss
[2:36:00] Hammond, Renie Reeves.
[2:36:05] Welcome and and thank you for your
[2:36:07] email. I want to let you know I got you
[2:36:08] I received your email. Thank you.
[2:36:12] Um I want to take a little bit of a
[2:36:14] different take tonight. I am grateful to
[2:36:17] live in America where we have freedom of
[2:36:19] speech. we have the opportunity to do
[2:36:21] what we're doing here tonight. And I
[2:36:24] just wanted to give a little bit of
[2:36:26] background. In my 40s, I was left with
[2:36:30] four children to raise on my own. And my
[2:36:32] father encouraged me to invest in real
[2:36:34] estate. And that is what I have done.
[2:36:37] And as I've looked at what we're doing
[2:36:39] and how things are moving along, I want
[2:36:41] to express the fact that the police
[2:36:44] department is trying to build bridges
[2:36:46] and I'm concerned that we're making
[2:36:49] walls in the neighborhoods by saying
[2:36:52] that things are not right and you can't
[2:36:55] do this at your property. And uh I I
[2:36:58] just want to deal with things that are
[2:37:00] true. So some of the comments have been
[2:37:02] we have short-term rentals so we can't
[2:37:05] have kids in school. Well, there is
[2:37:07] nothing. There's no correlation between
[2:37:09] that. The reason that we're decreasing
[2:37:11] the number of kids in school is because
[2:37:13] my grandkids don't want to have kids.
[2:37:15] They don't want to spend the money. They
[2:37:17] don't see this as a thing to do. And
[2:37:19] it's not just here in Utah. It's across
[2:37:21] the nation. Um I as a real estate agent
[2:37:25] will look and say affordability, which
[2:37:28] we talk about all the time. We can't
[2:37:29] afford it. Can't do this. And so I
[2:37:32] recommend that someone build a home and
[2:37:34] have an apartment so they can afford to
[2:37:36] be there whether it's a young family or
[2:37:39] whether it's a senior citizen that
[2:37:41] that's the way you can stay in a home.
[2:37:42] That's the way you can have property.
[2:37:44] And I think we need to look at what are
[2:37:46] the critical issues and the legal
[2:37:49] things. We have personal property rights
[2:37:51] and we want to look at those. And the
[2:37:53] constitution says we are as a government
[2:37:55] supposed to protect the people. we're
[2:37:57] not supposed to oversee them and tell
[2:38:00] them how to do things. And I hope that
[2:38:01] we'll consider that. Um, it is important
[2:38:05] that we look at the consequences of
[2:38:09] making false statements. And I don't
[2:38:11] think anything has been said about
[2:38:13] people coming forward and saying that
[2:38:15] kid was in my neighborhood and and they
[2:38:18] came across my fence and we're in my
[2:38:20] driveway to get their ball and so that's
[2:38:22] offensive and I'm going to call the cops
[2:38:23] on them. And there we've got to do
[2:38:26] something to say you can't falsely
[2:38:29] report an infringement on someone's
[2:38:31] rights and have no consequence for that
[2:38:33] and do multiple multiple where the
[2:38:35] police are being called and there's
[2:38:36] nothing to stand up for that. There is
[2:38:39] no correlation between short-term
[2:38:40] rentals and housing availability.
[2:38:43] 185 homes in ORM are available. Over up
[2:38:47] to 600 rentals are available. Having the
[2:38:50] 30 or 40 short-term rentals that are
[2:38:52] standalone homes on the market is not
[2:38:55] going to change that and not change any
[2:38:57] of those kinds of things. I can go on
[2:38:59] and on. You guys have received my
[2:39:00] emails.
[2:39:02] I hope that we can come to something
[2:39:04] where we build bridges and we have
[2:39:06] neighbors that enjoy each other and can
[2:39:09] come to some kind of a compromise on how
[2:39:12] we deal with our neighborhood. Thank
[2:39:14] you.
[2:39:14] >> All right.
[2:39:15] >> So, can I ask Chris, are you sending
[2:39:16] your emails to me?
[2:39:17] >> No.
[2:39:18] >> You're not? No.
[2:39:21] >> All right. Thank you. All right. Uh,
[2:39:24] Miss Reeves, you're up. And then after
[2:39:27] you, um, Keith Walker.
[2:39:31] >> Hi, my name is Renie Reeves and I live
[2:39:32] in South Thorum, just off of 2000 South.
[2:39:35] About a year ago, I came to a city
[2:39:37] council meeting and expressed concern
[2:39:39] about crossing 2000 South. Since then,
[2:39:41] you guys have put in time and effort and
[2:39:43] getting a crosswalk installed. My
[2:39:45] neighbors and I feel a lot safer. cars
[2:39:47] stop if they see us waiting, which
[2:39:48] didn't happen before. My neighbors have
[2:39:50] told me often how grateful they are. I
[2:39:53] wanted to come to this meeting to tell
[2:39:54] you thank you for listening and taking
[2:39:56] action. It's made a big difference to my
[2:39:58] neighbors and I thank you guys so much.
[2:40:01] >> Thank you. Yes,
[2:40:03] >> Remy, you have grown like a foot since
[2:40:05] last year. I'm so happy. I just want to
[2:40:08] for those of you who are new on the
[2:40:09] council, she got a petition in her
[2:40:11] neighborhood. She brought it very
[2:40:13] professionally and presented that to the
[2:40:15] city council. and you are just an
[2:40:17] example for all of our residents to come
[2:40:19] and advocate. So, thank you.
[2:40:21] >> Thank you so much.
[2:40:22] >> Thank you. Up next is U. Mr. Keith
[2:40:25] Walker and after him, Katie.
[2:40:30] » Thank you, Mayor and City Council for
[2:40:32] letting me address you in this evening.
[2:40:35] I will touch base on several items or
[2:40:37] issues that are all inter intertwined
[2:40:39] and need your be addressed by you to
[2:40:42] keep Orm City, the family city USA to be
[2:40:45] proud of. The city is currently paving
[2:40:48] streets in North Orum, which we are very
[2:40:49] grateful for at a great cost to the
[2:40:52] city. The issue is traders parked along
[2:40:55] the street that are not been moved, that
[2:40:57] have been there for 5 months or longer,
[2:41:00] that have been paved around and leaving
[2:41:02] an incomplete and a poorl looking job. I
[2:41:04] have a car parked across the street from
[2:41:06] me now that's not been moved for 3
[2:41:08] months. My best guess it will not be
[2:41:10] moved unless we call somebody to tow it.
[2:41:13] Uh but we'll address that, but it'll be
[2:41:15] paved around probably again at sometime
[2:41:17] later this week. Uh the underlying issue
[2:41:20] in this issue and some of it is in a
[2:41:23] twob block area that I live in by four
[2:41:25] blocks long. the area of six square
[2:41:27] blocks. I have three sober living
[2:41:31] uh rehab homes, one Airbnb, 11 houses
[2:41:35] with apartments not legal in the city,
[2:41:37] renting rooms in houses and basement, no
[2:41:40] private entrances, no kitchen, just
[2:41:42] renting rooms.
[2:41:44] Uh the neighbors, I have a neighbor that
[2:41:46] has seven cars at the home all the time.
[2:41:48] They're decent neighbors, but it's
[2:41:49] obvious they're not just a family with
[2:41:51] seven cars. Uh the question is what are
[2:41:55] we going to do about these issues that
[2:41:57] are destroying the appearance and
[2:41:59] backbone of the city of ORM and the
[2:42:01] family city USA. I also have another
[2:42:04] kind of a pet peeve in my back for years
[2:42:06] and years. I have the duplexes and
[2:42:09] forplexes in ORM city or with these
[2:42:13] other things are mentioned are an issue.
[2:42:15] Uh, I have
[2:42:18] family members that involved in these
[2:42:20] and I have a n I'm going to share
[2:42:22] something. I have a 92-year-old dad
[2:42:25] that will not let me help him with his
[2:42:28] apartment half the time because of his
[2:42:30] stubbornness and want to do it himself.
[2:42:32] But the issue I have is these forplexes
[2:42:34] and duplexes are all over the city.
[2:42:37] They're incomeroucing properties within
[2:42:40] the city. The city should require these
[2:42:42] properties to be which allows many
[2:42:46] families to be taken care of by their
[2:42:48] landlords. Not just called
[2:42:51] on to rent and gain income from with no
[2:42:54] obligation to their tenants. No lawns,
[2:42:57] just wheat patches, junkyards, junk
[2:42:59] areas. And I know some of this is the
[2:43:00] tenants that they have to deal with. All
[2:43:03] of the items concern, all of the items
[2:43:06] committed on this evening, comment on
[2:43:09] this evening, are incomeroucing
[2:43:10] properties or businesses.
[2:43:14] in one way or another. Their owner their
[2:43:16] owners are only care about their
[2:43:18] dollars. No return on investment to the
[2:43:20] city or no return to the community. The
[2:43:23] families are forced to live in
[2:43:25] conditions that are not the best and
[2:43:27] some of its attendance problems. I
[2:43:29] encourage you to be careful what you do
[2:43:31] over the next several weeks. These
[2:43:32] businesses in the city generally become
[2:43:35] a big eyesore to the to the future of
[2:43:37] the city that everyone is is uh
[2:43:43] preaching for better housing options
[2:43:45] because long-term they are not. And
[2:43:47] there's areas in the cities and Provo
[2:43:50] Vineyard American Fork that you can go
[2:43:52] find with housing and cars and stuff all
[2:43:55] over that you can't get around and I
[2:43:57] just encourage you to be careful what
[2:43:58] you do over the next few months. Thank
[2:44:00] you.
[2:44:00] >> Thank you, Mr. Walker, would it be okay
[2:44:03] if we had one of the staff members
[2:44:04] contact you about your concerns
[2:44:06] specifically with
[2:44:07] >> I would like to do something to try to
[2:44:08] help some of that without, you know, we
[2:44:10] try to be decent neighbors, but we don't
[2:44:12] want to complain about some of the
[2:44:14] issues, but we would like to try to help
[2:44:15] some of it. Thank you.
[2:44:16] >> Okay. Uh, Mr. By, would you that Thank
[2:44:19] you.
[2:44:21] >> All right. Katie is up and after Katie
[2:44:24] is I think it's John.
[2:44:28] [laughter] So, welcome
[2:44:35] So, my name is Katie and I just wanted
[2:44:37] to address the short-term um rental
[2:44:40] issue as well.
[2:44:41] >> What's your last name, Katie?
[2:44:42] >> It's Brooks.
[2:44:43] >> Brooks.
[2:44:43] >> Yep. Mhm. Um so, [sighs and gasps]
[2:44:52] I'm going to take a more personal take
[2:44:55] on it, and I hope you guys will forgive
[2:44:57] me.
[2:45:00] Two years ago, we had to evacuate our
[2:45:03] home um because we had a high velocity
[2:45:07] rainstorm that hit the back of our house
[2:45:10] and um it was mitigated improperly. So,
[2:45:15] it wasn't um the mitigation area, it
[2:45:19] wasn't sealed off properly, so it ended
[2:45:20] up spreading moler account throughout
[2:45:23] our whole entire home. I have asthma and
[2:45:26] um mass cell and my son does as well.
[2:45:32] After they had um
[2:45:35] uh taken all the levels, it was twice the level of what was considered
[2:45:40] high and we were asked to evacuate our
[2:45:43] homes.
[2:45:44] I on a very practical note, natural
[2:45:47] disasters happen to all of us, right? So
[2:45:49] what I'm asking you guys to do is just
[2:45:51] look at everything on a very practical
[2:45:53] note. We ended up moving 10 times in 7
[2:45:56] months as we kept waiting for the
[2:45:57] insurance company to
[2:46:00] um hopefully get involved.
[2:46:03] Having local Airbnbs
[2:46:06] provided um to keep the community we
[2:46:09] have three children. I had I had a they
[2:46:12] were 11, 12, and 13 at the time. And by
[2:46:15] having Airbnbs in the community, we were
[2:46:19] able to keep our kids at their local
[2:46:21] school. We didn't have to move up to
[2:46:23] Salt Lake while we were doing the
[2:46:25] mitigation and the rebuild. Everything's
[2:46:27] done now. Like literally, it's taken us
[2:46:29] 2 years. We just finished our kitchen
[2:46:31] this last week. But I just want you guys
[2:46:34] to take a closer look cuz I even my um
[2:46:38] son, he has a couple of friends where
[2:46:39] they also had to move for um several
[2:46:44] months out of their home too. And by
[2:46:47] getting rid of all the Airbnbs, you are
[2:46:49] taking away access to actually local or
[2:46:54] residents that need to be able to access
[2:46:57] the schools that need to be able to
[2:46:58] access the help. Um my son has mass cell
[2:47:02] like he in his 504 plan like he has to
[2:47:06] have um an air filter system in every
[2:47:09] single room because when he has a
[2:47:11] reaction it can last up to 72 hours. So
[2:47:14] basically what mass cell is is is you
[2:47:16] have um too much of a histamine response
[2:47:19] and your body has a hard time breaking
[2:47:20] it down. [gasps] Um so for us like we
[2:47:24] were definitely um more concerned. And
[2:47:28] then another thing is also I really love
[2:47:30] the diversity that the Airbnbs bring. I
[2:47:33] love seeing the Jewish um traditional
[2:47:35] Jewish people with their ringlets. I
[2:47:37] love that there are knitting company
[2:47:40] knitting communities that can come to
[2:47:42] these Airbnbs. And I also really
[2:47:44] appreciate
[2:47:46] um Airbnbs that also have ADA
[2:47:50] accommodations for those that need it.
[2:47:53] Okay. Thank you.
[2:47:54] >> Thank you. I'm sorry you went through
[2:47:56] all that and I'm glad I'm glad it's all
[2:47:59] that was quite the storm. We're we're still in the process, but I just
[2:48:03] wanted to let you guys know as an ORM
[2:48:05] resident, having Airbnbs is a very
[2:48:07] practical option.
[2:48:07] >> All right. Thank you.
[2:48:08] >> So, yeah.
[2:48:10] >> Right. Next up, is it is it John? Okay.
[2:48:13] And after after John is Caroli Wolfley,
[2:48:20] [snorts]
[2:48:25] that's my wife. And I I didn't know she
[2:48:27] was going to talk about that, but we are
[2:48:29] super grateful for her aunt who lives
[2:48:32] here and other family to let us live in
[2:48:33] their home, but we did have to use BNP's
[2:48:36] temporarily for our children, our family
[2:48:38] to keep us somewhat united during a
[2:48:41] tough time. Um, I'm not talking about
[2:48:43] that, but obviously I'm here to support
[2:48:46] a good neighbor of ours that does have a
[2:48:47] large Airbnb, and I strongly urge you to
[2:48:50] look at, you know, sizes of Airbnbs. You
[2:48:52] obviously don't want 100 people in 1,000
[2:48:54] square foot, but if somebody can
[2:48:56] accommodate it and it's not causing any
[2:48:57] problems that you take that into
[2:48:59] consideration while you're looking at
[2:49:00] this um process and uh our neighbors
[2:49:04] that do have an Airbnb, actually a
[2:49:06] couple of them, you know, they don't
[2:49:07] cause any problems and I don't see an
[2:49:09] issue. And I I would I would be here in
[2:49:12] the alternative of that. If I did see a
[2:49:14] lot of issues, I'd probably be here
[2:49:15] fighting for the opposite of that. Uh I
[2:49:17] haven't seen that in in my area where I
[2:49:19] live and I strongly urge you to take
[2:49:21] that in consideration. Um I live and
[2:49:24] where I live in ORM um on a different
[2:49:26] subject I'd love to just kind of bring
[2:49:27] up. I have no idea what's going to
[2:49:28] happen. Uh the canal that is no longer
[2:49:31] in use now. Uh I'd love to know what's
[2:49:33] going to be happening to that uh
[2:49:35] property since it runs through the
[2:49:36] backyard of my home along with a lot of
[2:49:38] other people's. Um, and uh, I know that
[2:49:42] mine is the canal in my backyard is dry
[2:49:45] and nothing's other than some maybe some
[2:49:47] debris, but I've noticed that now
[2:49:48] there's lots of weeds growing and other
[2:49:50] things, and I'd love to know what's
[2:49:51] going on with that, too. But I'm here to
[2:49:53] support and and and make our our family
[2:49:57] USA. Thank you.
[2:49:59] >> All right. Thank you. Um, I'll just
[2:50:01] quickly address the canal. The canal
[2:50:03] company has decided not to run water
[2:50:06] through it anymore. Yes.
[2:50:07] >> And the gentleman, Mr. again if you
[2:50:09] would like to speak with him or get give
[2:50:11] him your contact information. He has
[2:50:13] more information about a study that's
[2:50:15] going on right now to see what what
[2:50:17] options are available
[2:50:20] uh for that property. We don't own the
[2:50:22] property. It's right now the the canal
[2:50:25] company is remains the the ones in
[2:50:28] charge of it and so
[2:50:29] >> yeah and where I live from my
[2:50:31] understanding it it lines up with Provo
[2:50:33] and Orm. So you're dealing with two
[2:50:35] different cities.
[2:50:36] >> Okay. I don't know where you live. I
[2:50:38] live on Paliside Drive.
[2:50:39] >> So when it runs through the back side of
[2:50:40] Paliside Drive on on the maps.
[2:50:43] >> Oh, that might be the Provo Bench Canal.
[2:50:44] Is that the one that's down below?
[2:50:46] >> Yeah.
[2:50:46] >> Okay. Are we work are we doing a study
[2:50:49] on the Provo Bench Canal as well?
[2:50:51] >> Okay, then that's Yeah, you'd be the one
[2:50:53] to to talk to.
[2:50:54] >> Okay.
[2:50:55] >> All right.
[2:50:55] >> Thank you.
[2:50:56] All right. Caroli Wolfley and
[2:51:00] then um Judy Christensen after Miss
[2:51:03] Wolfley.
[2:51:06] I do not see. Is that you? I see someone
[2:51:10] waving. Oh, she's just waving. Oh, she's
[2:51:12] waving to you. Okay. Well, she's since she's not here,
[2:51:20] we'll go ahead and
[2:51:24] Oh, in the nick of time.
[2:51:28] All right, you're up.
[2:51:30] [laughter]
[2:51:31] You want to catch your breath? Would you
[2:51:32] like to have someone go go next and then
[2:51:34] you catch your breath for a second?
[2:51:36] Okay. Okay. Um Judy Christensen, if you
[2:51:40] um come up and then Carol after Miss
[2:51:43] Christensen. Um
[2:51:47] yes, I'm Judy Christensen. I moved here
[2:51:50] into ORM about 36 years ago. Um came
[2:51:53] down to Utah for school when I was 17. I
[2:51:56] really love it here. I love the people.
[2:51:58] I love the values. Um, I love the beauty
[2:52:03] and it's awesome and I'm really happy um
[2:52:09] to have uh cool things to do, you know,
[2:52:13] like next Tuesday have all of our um you
[2:52:18] know, this fun community activity like I
[2:52:21] agree with the first speaker about
[2:52:22] building bridges in the community. I
[2:52:24] happen to be part of a group um a
[2:52:26] volunteer group who believes that local
[2:52:29] governments should not use government
[2:52:31] resources, staff, facilities um um any
[2:52:36] of the local of our local things that we
[2:52:39] pay for here as a city for to carry out
[2:52:42] federal immigration enforcement
[2:52:45] or um yeah and I just am here to ask
[2:52:50] um to please I am hoping that we can
[2:52:54] pass a formal resolution prohibiting the
[2:52:56] use of municipal funds, staff time,
[2:53:00] facilities for federal immigration
[2:53:02] enforcement activities. I'm hoping that
[2:53:06] um
[2:53:07] we publicly can direct our local police
[2:53:10] departments in writing to cease
[2:53:13] collaboration with ICE in any form,
[2:53:15] including participation in joint
[2:53:17] operations, information sharing, and
[2:53:19] notifications. I have friends and family
[2:53:22] who um this directly affects and I want
[2:53:25] to feel safe in the community. I I value
[2:53:29] all people and I hope that we can join
[2:53:32] together in love in this community.
[2:53:36] Thank you.
[2:53:36] >> Right. Thank you. All right. And after
[2:53:40] Ms. Wolfley, we have Ethan Stoffer.
[2:53:45] Right. Welcome.
[2:53:46] >> Thank you and thanks for the the breath.
[2:53:49] Um, I've lived in or had my home in ORM
[2:53:53] for a zillion years and I love ORM. Um,
[2:53:58] I am concerned
[2:54:00] about the city um, having given
[2:54:05] short-term rental
[2:54:08] um, licenses and is trying to change
[2:54:11] that. I that that is a real concern to
[2:54:13] me. Um, we don't do that. You know, if
[2:54:17] you if you want to change the rules down
[2:54:18] the road, more power to you. But you
[2:54:23] grandfather in what you've already done.
[2:54:27] Um
[2:54:29] people make plans and and they make important decisions based on
[2:54:38] this and then for you guys to come and
[2:54:42] change it here, that's really not fair.
[2:54:45] Um, and I I I
[2:54:50] love Worm and I love our neighborhoods.
[2:54:54] I am
[2:54:57] um [clears throat]
[2:54:58] I have done every sort of thing from
[2:55:00] being um
[2:55:03] a married couple,
[2:55:06] having kids, raising them in our
[2:55:08] schools, doing the um [clears throat]
[2:55:12] now I'm a widow and life changes and and
[2:55:16] uh the having short-term rentals is a
[2:55:19] way to be able to afford expenses when
[2:55:24] life does change and I I cannot see
[2:55:29] any reason
[2:55:31] that we would want to change that. We
[2:55:34] know that there's always people
[2:55:37] um [clears throat] that
[2:55:40] wherever whatever situation there's
[2:55:43] always one bad apple, but that doesn't
[2:55:44] make all the rest.
[2:55:47] So, I would really hope that you would
[2:55:50] uh honor the commitments that ORM has
[2:55:53] already made to people and to um allow
[2:55:57] short-term rentals to
[2:56:00] be totally a good thing. I know my
[2:56:03] sister, she stayed in one when she was
[2:56:05] waiting for as a missionary. She had had
[2:56:09] to, you know, gotten everything sold in
[2:56:11] Idaho and came here and stayed in a
[2:56:13] short-term rental. It was wonderful. It
[2:56:16] helped her tremendously. She went on
[2:56:18] with her life. I've had lots of
[2:56:20] short-term people come and go. And it
[2:56:23] it's that bridge that helps people and
[2:56:26] sustains
[2:56:28] not only them, but us, too. So, thank
[2:56:31] you. Thank you. And I'm I'm sorry for
[2:56:34] your loss.
[2:56:36] I'm a fellow widow. So, yes.
[2:56:40] All right, Ethan.
[2:56:44] Um, you're up. Welcome.
[2:56:49] Hello, mayor and council people. Um, I
[2:56:52] spoke at the last meeting as well. For
[2:56:54] those of you who remember, I spoke about
[2:56:56] the flock cameras that have been placed
[2:56:58] up around the city. Um, I still have
[2:57:00] more concerns about that and I would
[2:57:02] like to share those as well as expound
[2:57:04] on an issue that I find disconnected and
[2:57:06] that I'm fortunate has already been
[2:57:07] spoken about with the issue of ICE and
[2:57:10] immigration enforcement. Um, so first to
[2:57:13] elaborate on Flock for those who do not
[2:57:16] remember or maybe weren't here, that is
[2:57:18] a private company that makes contracts
[2:57:20] with cities and police departments to
[2:57:22] put up these security surveillance
[2:57:24] cameras um around the city with no
[2:57:27] disclosure of where they are. Um, the
[2:57:30] only way we have to know where these
[2:57:32] cameras are placed is a crowdsourced
[2:57:34] campaign to find them.
[2:57:36] These cameras are AI powered to license
[2:57:39] to register any license plates or make,
[2:57:42] model, color, um, bumper stickers, even
[2:57:46] scratches on your car if you pass these
[2:57:48] cameras are registered in their AI
[2:57:50] database and become a searchable data
[2:57:52] point. To use this database, this
[2:57:55] private database, law enforcement does
[2:57:58] not require a warrant of any kind
[2:58:00] whatsoever. All it requires is a search
[2:58:03] reason, which for thousands of these
[2:58:05] searches has simply been the word test,
[2:58:08] which we know through independent
[2:58:09] reporting has been abused to follow
[2:58:12] people such as ex partners or simple
[2:58:14] personal interest searches. I find this
[2:58:16] to be an insane breach of civil privacy.
[2:58:20] Um, since anyone driving past these
[2:58:23] cameras are being logged into a
[2:58:25] database, they had no say in existing
[2:58:27] and have no way to remove themselves
[2:58:29] from for simply going about their life,
[2:58:31] going about the city. People have said,
[2:58:33] "If you have nothing to hide, you have
[2:58:35] nothing to worry about. But if I send
[2:58:37] someone in a package, I'm not putting it
[2:58:39] in a clear Tupperware." And it isn't
[2:58:40] because it's there's something criminal
[2:58:42] inside. It's because it's just for the
[2:58:43] recipient. It's a question of privacy.
[2:58:46] It's not a question of criminality.
[2:58:48] Um, the way that this intersects with
[2:58:51] ICE, however, is because ICE has been
[2:58:54] known to also use this database to track
[2:58:57] down some of their targets. There are
[2:59:00] records of over 4,000 nation and
[2:59:02] statewide lookups by city police
[2:59:04] departments on the behalf of ICE with
[2:59:07] reasons listed as immigration, ICE, ICE,
[2:59:11] and ERRO, which is the enforcement and
[2:59:12] removal operations. um illegal
[2:59:15] immigration, ICE warrant, you understand
[2:59:17] the you know the trend going on there. I
[2:59:20] would like to reiterate ICE themsself
[2:59:22] has no contract with Flock. They are
[2:59:25] asking police departments to do these
[2:59:27] searches for them and police departments
[2:59:29] are choosing to and complying to do
[2:59:31] these. There is no legal or any contract
[2:59:34] reason that they have to, but these
[2:59:37] police departments are choosing to
[2:59:38] assist them. I'm running low on time, so
[2:59:40] I'll speed up from now. Um 70.6% 6% of
[2:59:44] all ICE detainees have no criminal
[2:59:46] convictions whatsoever. This is people
[2:59:48] that are being held against their will
[2:59:50] with no convictions. And I do not think
[2:59:52] we should be assisting ICE and getting
[2:59:54] more of them. Additionally, I want to
[2:59:56] remember that this database is global
[2:59:59] and private. Even if our cops choose not
[3:00:01] to communicate with ICE and help them,
[3:00:03] they can go to a different city and
[3:00:05] since it's all the same database, the
[3:00:06] cops there can do the same and betray
[3:00:08] our or citizens. Thank you.
[3:00:10] >> Thank you.
[3:00:15] And that concludes our personal
[3:00:16] appearances.
[3:00:20] » Oh, yes. Um, Council Member Millet has a
[3:00:22] question.
[3:00:22] >> I just wanted to ask our attorney. Is
[3:00:24] Steve here? Oh, there you are. So,
[3:00:26] Steve, has the city of Oram issued
[3:00:28] short-term rental licenses?
[3:00:30] >> Uh, no. We've never had a short-term
[3:00:32] rental license that we've issued to
[3:00:34] anyone. We do have residential rental
[3:00:37] dwelling licenses that we issue to
[3:00:40] anybody who wants to uh rent their
[3:00:43] dwelling. Uh primarily that's going to
[3:00:45] be long-term uh rentals, but could
[3:00:48] encompass people have who have done
[3:00:50] short-term rentals as well, but we do
[3:00:52] not have any specific short-term
[3:00:54] dwelling uh rental license.
[3:00:59] All right, Miss Wolfley, would you do me
[3:01:01] if you would like some more information,
[3:01:03] have more discussion? you you did not
[3:01:04] have your contact information. If you
[3:01:06] want to leave your phone number with um Teresa's city recorder, we could
[3:01:11] um maybe have an opportunity to to
[3:01:15] elaborate further on that if that's if
[3:01:18] that's something you were interested in
[3:01:20] doing. Just go ahead and leave your your
[3:01:21] contact information. Thank you. Um all
[3:01:26] right, council. We have two consent
[3:01:28] items this evening. The first is the
[3:01:30] approval of the meeting minutes of July
[3:01:32] 14th, 2026.
[3:01:34] And the second item is an appointment to
[3:01:37] the events advisory commission. Brian,
[3:01:40] wait. Is Brian here this evening? All
[3:01:42] right. Well, well,
[3:01:45] we welcome you and and well, I guess I
[3:01:48] ought to wait till after we vote to
[3:01:50] welcome you.
[3:01:52] [laughter]
[3:01:53] Not not to get ahead of myself, but
[3:01:55] councel, I would entertain a motion to
[3:01:56] approve the consent items.
[3:01:59] >> So moved.
[3:02:00] >> I have a motion. Is there a second?
[3:02:02] >> Second.
[3:02:03] >> All right. A second. All right. We'll
[3:02:06] start with with you, Council Member
[3:02:07] Millet.
[3:02:08] >> I.
[3:02:08] >> And I vote I
[3:02:10] >> I.
[3:02:11] >> All right. Um, Council Member Mikum.
[3:02:14] >> I.
[3:02:15] >> Council member Milstein.
[3:02:17] >> I.
[3:02:18] >> Council member Kilpac.
[3:02:20] >> I.
[3:02:21] >> All right.
[3:02:22] I knew that was going to be the vote,
[3:02:24] but welcome. We're so glad to have you
[3:02:27] on our on our commission and being
[3:02:29] willing to serve our community. Thank
[3:02:31] you.
[3:02:33] Right. The next item on our agenda is a
[3:02:36] public hearing.
[3:02:38] It is an for an ordinance amending
[3:02:41] article 22-5-3A
[3:02:43] and the zoning map of the city of ORM by
[3:02:46] changing the zone of the property
[3:02:47] located generally at 1875 South Geneva
[3:02:50] Road from OS5 open space to PRD planned
[3:02:54] residential development and to amend the
[3:02:57] concept plan found in appendix KK,
[3:03:00] excuse me, site plan farm haven to
[3:03:03] include the subject property and amend
[3:03:05] the project layout. And so our presenter
[3:03:08] this evening is our planning director
[3:03:10] Jared Hall. And after Mr. Hall is has
[3:03:13] completed his presentation. Invite the
[3:03:15] applicants to come up if you would like
[3:03:16] to say anything else.
[3:03:21] » Thank you. Um that introduction of the
[3:03:24] item is quite a mouthful. I know. So
[3:03:27] yeah, it is it is this and the reason
[3:03:30] part part of the reason that it's so
[3:03:31] long is that this actual this request
[3:03:33] has two parts. Um it is both um a change
[3:03:36] of zoning to reszone the subject
[3:03:38] property that you see here. This 2.9
[3:03:41] acres that's currently in the OS5 zone.
[3:03:44] They um applicants would like to reszone
[3:03:46] this piece. And then the second part is
[3:03:48] to add it to this portion of property
[3:03:51] that's part of the PRD or our planned
[3:03:52] residential development and modify that
[3:03:55] um current concept plan that goes with
[3:03:57] that PRD to include this property um
[3:04:01] that's being reszoned or asked or being
[3:04:02] requested for reszone. So um this went
[3:04:06] to the planning commission for a public
[3:04:08] hearing uh back in March and April. The
[3:04:11] planning commission voted to recommend
[3:04:12] approval um with a condition that the
[3:04:14] new PRD would include a direct public
[3:04:16] rideaway connection to Geneva Road. Uh
[3:04:19] that's down here. The concept plan at
[3:04:21] the time did not have such a connection.
[3:04:23] When the com when the planning
[3:04:24] commission forwarded it, the city
[3:04:26] council heard it uh at a hearing in May.
[3:04:29] Uh and it again the the um the
[3:04:32] connection public rightway connection to
[3:04:34] Geneva Road was not present. Uh the
[3:04:36] council voted at the time to to continue
[3:04:39] the item forward to give the applicants
[3:04:41] a chance to look at a concept plan that
[3:04:43] would include that uh and come back if
[3:04:46] that were possible. Um the applicants
[3:04:48] have done that and come back with a
[3:04:49] concept plan that does include a
[3:04:52] connection to Geneva Road. Um so we'll
[3:04:54] review that tonight and talk about that.
[3:04:58] But I want to give just the background
[3:04:59] again because the public hearing is um
[3:05:02] part of the agenda and I wanted to make
[3:05:04] sure that this is all again in people's
[3:05:06] minds because it has been a little time.
[3:05:08] Uh as we stated, this is the the parcel
[3:05:10] that's being uh requested for reszone.
[3:05:12] This is in the OS5 zone. Uh the property
[3:05:15] to the east here is the Whiteststone
[3:05:17] Estate subdivision that was recently
[3:05:19] approved. This is Payton Crossing to the
[3:05:22] south. Uh, and this is the land in the
[3:05:24] PRD zone that would be um con that would
[3:05:28] be combined with this uh property if
[3:05:30] it's reszoned to form a new PRD uh
[3:05:33] called Westerly Way instead of Farm
[3:05:35] Haven.
[3:05:36] Um, this is in this is a section from
[3:05:38] the general plan, the land use map. Um,
[3:05:41] this property that's the subject
[3:05:42] property is in the lowdensity
[3:05:44] residential southwest category. Um, the
[3:05:47] change is in line with the general plans
[3:05:49] designation. There's no conflict there.
[3:05:52] uh the existing farm haven concept again
[3:05:55] that did have initially a connection to
[3:05:57] Geneva road that was part of the reason
[3:05:58] for the request on the planning
[3:05:59] commission's part in the council review
[3:06:02] uh the existing plan was for 25 smaller
[3:06:05] lots uh their cott called them cottage
[3:06:07] lots it was farm farm haven cottages uh
[3:06:10] 25 lots and this road internally
[3:06:13] circulating and then going out to Geneva
[3:06:15] um the concept that came through on May
[3:06:18] 12th uh that has been redesigned was
[3:06:20] this 44 town or sorry, 44 twin home lots
[3:06:25] without the connection to Geneva.
[3:06:27] The new redesign that does include a
[3:06:29] connection to Geneva Road. We're going
[3:06:31] to see how many times I have to say
[3:06:32] Geneva Road tonight. You can start
[3:06:34] counting now for those of you playing
[3:06:36] any kind of games with it. Um, this is a
[3:06:39] redesign of the twin home lots, although
[3:06:41] it's fairly similar. It contains that
[3:06:43] same circulation pattern inside. Uh, 40
[3:06:46] units. They did lose some some twin
[3:06:48] homes to make that connection happen.
[3:06:51] Um, but there's again some additional
[3:06:53] parking uh for um for guests uh and
[3:06:56] visitors. Uh there are twocar garages on
[3:06:59] all of these units and driveways for two
[3:07:01] cars. Um the parking standard for PRDS
[3:07:05] uh multifamily housing is 2.5 parking
[3:07:07] spaces per unit. This has about 2.7 if
[3:07:10] you count them all together. Uh not
[3:07:12] including the driveways. Those would be
[3:07:13] an addition. Uh but just the garages and
[3:07:15] these extra parking spaces. uh a sixoot
[3:07:18] perimeter fence is required uh for a
[3:07:21] project like this that would need to be
[3:07:22] part of the site planning and that
[3:07:24] brings me to a point um that I want to
[3:07:26] make now so I don't forget. Uh this is a request for a zone change and a
[3:07:31] concept plan that goes with that PRD. Um
[3:07:33] but those things are not approvals for
[3:07:35] building. uh it would still require
[3:07:37] what's being planned here in concept
[3:07:39] would still require planning commission
[3:07:41] approval of a site plan for the multif
[3:07:43] family nature because they are attached
[3:07:44] housing units and uh a subdivision to
[3:07:47] make these twin homes. So it'll still go
[3:07:48] through some iterations um with planning
[3:07:50] commission but those plans need to be
[3:07:52] based on uh this concept plan if that's
[3:07:55] approved as part of the zoning if that
[3:07:56] makes sense. Just want to make sure
[3:07:58] that's in everybody's heads as we go
[3:08:00] through this. Uh the roads are all
[3:08:02] public rightway. So these are all um
[3:08:03] oram what we call sublo streets that's
[3:08:06] the design buffered sidewalk curbon
[3:08:09] gutter park strip um and then this road
[3:08:12] out to Geneva to provide better
[3:08:13] circulation that does a lot of good
[3:08:15] things in terms of traffic uh it allows
[3:08:18] an access to a westerly road for two
[3:08:20] different subdivisions besides the one
[3:08:21] at hand tonight. Um their only access
[3:08:24] from this subdivision out the other
[3:08:26] direction would be out along 850 west to
[3:08:28] 2000 south. Again, the uh subdivision to
[3:08:32] the east here is Whit Stone Estates was
[3:08:34] recently approved. There's a stubbed
[3:08:35] connection to Whiteststone Estates, and
[3:08:37] this initial 850 West connection has
[3:08:39] always been part of the plan. Uh that
[3:08:41] would continue to be part of the plan,
[3:08:43] providing good access for all the lots
[3:08:44] that are proposed.
[3:08:47] Uh these are the elevations. Again, I
[3:08:49] think it was it was mentioned before
[3:08:51] this back side under PRD rules, this
[3:08:53] needs to have 40% um stone like the
[3:08:56] front sides. Uh that'll need to be added
[3:08:58] when the site plan goes through. We'll
[3:09:00] ensure that happens. These are twin
[3:09:01] homes. They're three-bedroom, three bath
[3:09:03] units, single stories with basements.
[3:09:05] Um, they do meet the height requirements
[3:09:06] of the PRD as well. And that is my
[3:09:10] presentation. If you have any questions
[3:09:12] for me tonight.
[3:09:13] >> All right. Thank you, council. Any
[3:09:14] questions for u Mr. Hall?
[3:09:19] » Council member Gail. Um, can you please
[3:09:23] explain to us again, and I know that
[3:09:24] we've been through this before, but
[3:09:25] maybe for newer members of the public
[3:09:26] that haven't seen this, um, what the
[3:09:28] connection between the current PRD uh,
[3:09:30] zone and the Autism Academy is how this
[3:09:33] new area relates to both of those.
[3:09:34] >> Great. That's a that's a great question.
[3:09:36] Let me go back up to the site plan here.
[3:09:38] This property is owned by the Autism
[3:09:40] Academy, uh, the folks that own own and
[3:09:42] operate the Autism Academy, and they are
[3:09:44] the applicants in this case. They work
[3:09:46] for Farm Haven as well. uh they they
[3:09:49] maintain ownership of it. They would
[3:09:50] like to subdivide this to provide some
[3:09:52] housing for folks uh that are
[3:09:54] participating in in programs of the
[3:09:55] autism academy as part of that. Um it
[3:09:58] wouldn't be exclusive to those folks as
[3:10:00] I understand it, but it would provide
[3:10:01] some it's been designed with those folks
[3:10:03] in mind. Uh and the connection to the
[3:10:05] autism academy is really through um some
[3:10:08] access to this road that'll come out,
[3:10:10] but there's no direct connections from
[3:10:12] the PRD to the functioning of the autism
[3:10:14] academy. They don't depend on each other
[3:10:15] for parking or for drainage. They do
[3:10:17] benefit from from those connections, but
[3:10:19] they don't depend wholly on each other
[3:10:21] for those things. Does that answer your
[3:10:23] question? Thank you.
[3:10:24] >> All right, council. Any other questions?
[3:10:28] >> Mayor, could I ask you a question?
[3:10:30] >> Oh, okay. Go ahead, Council Member Mikum
[3:10:32] and then Council Member Millet.
[3:10:34] >> Okay. U J Jared, I'm just wondering if
[3:10:37] you could tell us anything more about
[3:10:39] the the connection to Geneva Road. Um,
[3:10:42] is it a two-way connection? Um uh just
[3:10:46] wondering how traffic might flow onto
[3:10:48] Genev Geneva Road in that particular
[3:10:50] space if people are going to be turning
[3:10:51] from
[3:10:52] >> Yeah.
[3:10:53] >> Geneva Road left onto that that road or
[3:10:55] anything else you can tell us about that
[3:10:57] connection.
[3:10:57] >> That's that's a good question. My
[3:10:59] understanding is this is a full
[3:11:00] connection. So it would be full full
[3:11:02] turn movements. Uh UD do has approved UD
[3:11:04] do has reviewed and approved that. I'm
[3:11:06] glad you asked because I should have
[3:11:07] mentioned that as part of the review.
[3:11:08] This did go to UD dot. took a while to
[3:11:10] get back to us all because it had to get
[3:11:12] UD do approval because right now this is
[3:11:13] a state road. This would be full turn
[3:11:15] movements. It's a good access um for all
[3:11:17] these folks to get out that direction
[3:11:19] should they need to. Um yeah, anything
[3:11:22] else there?
[3:11:26] » That's very helpful. Thank you.
[3:11:28] >> Thank you.
[3:11:28] >> Um yeah, just and that was one of my
[3:11:30] questions if we'd heard back from you
[3:11:32] dot on that. So glad to hear that that's
[3:11:34] working out
[3:11:35] >> for him. Um and then the other two
[3:11:38] connections to the east.
[3:11:40] >> Yes.
[3:11:40] >> Those are just tying right into the
[3:11:43] other development, the whitest stone
[3:11:44] >> into existing
[3:11:45] >> subdivision. What's the status of
[3:11:47] whitest stone right now?
[3:11:49] >> Any permits or
[3:11:50] >> they have not pulled permits yet?
[3:11:52] >> There are two phases of the subdivision
[3:11:54] are are in recording right now.
[3:11:56] >> Okay. So, do they have do what does that
[3:11:58] mean? Do they have infrastructure in
[3:11:59] yet?
[3:12:00] >> Uh I don't believe the infrastructure is
[3:12:01] in yet, but it will be soon. I think
[3:12:03] it's underway. Okay. Um, and the
[3:12:04] recording is probably not far off for
[3:12:06] >> Whit. So, they're they're moving
[3:12:08] forward. So, this should all probably go
[3:12:10] pretty close, pretty together.
[3:12:12] >> There's not really a delay on the Whit
[3:12:14] project. It's moving forward currently.
[3:12:15] It just takes a while to get everything
[3:12:16] done. They're they're reporting and
[3:12:18] building.
[3:12:19] >> All right. Thank you. Um, the applicants
[3:12:21] here this evening invite you to come up
[3:12:23] and introduce yourself. And if you'd
[3:12:26] like to add any additional information,
[3:12:27] you're welcome to do so.
[3:12:31] » Um, thank you. And first if I can
[3:12:34] clarify a couple of things. Uh there is
[3:12:36] only one access to the east into Whit
[3:12:39] Stone. One of those is a dead end. So
[3:12:41] there's just one going east. Also um the
[3:12:44] intention is not to sell these homes to
[3:12:48] those who are participating in the
[3:12:50] clinic. Um this is open to the public.
[3:12:53] Uh there isn't a requirement that they
[3:12:55] have access to our facilities there. Um
[3:12:58] it would be great if if they do, but uh
[3:13:03] we already have a massive waiting list
[3:13:05] for people trying to get in. And so to
[3:13:07] qualify
[3:13:09] to have a home there to already be in uh
[3:13:13] as a client at the academy is not
[3:13:16] likely.
[3:13:18] >> Thank you. I appreciate those those
[3:13:19] clarifications. Council, any other
[3:13:22] questions uh for the applicant?
[3:13:29] Right. Hearing none, I'll go ahead and
[3:13:30] This is a public hearing. So, if you've
[3:13:32] come here this evening to speak to this
[3:13:35] uh this item on the agenda, you're
[3:13:37] welcome to come up now. I ask you to uh
[3:13:40] state your name and limit your comments
[3:13:42] to three minutes.
[3:13:47] Hello. Hi, Pamela May. I'm on 800 North.
[3:13:51] So, just right there with on the main
[3:13:55] streets. Um just I needed a
[3:13:57] understanding clarification was
[3:14:00] originally it was going to be for
[3:14:02] autistic is going to be built as an
[3:14:05] autistic community and I'm understanding
[3:14:08] now that it's not going to be an
[3:14:10] autistic community. Just clarification
[3:14:12] not an argument just an understanding.
[3:14:14] >> Okay. All right. Go say go ahead and
[3:14:16] >> Thank you. I I probably should have
[3:14:18] clarified a little bit. Uh, this is
[3:14:20] designed as an autism friendly
[3:14:22] neighborhood, which means it will be
[3:14:25] focused on autism. Um, but you don't
[3:14:28] have to have a diagnosis to live there.
[3:14:31] Um, but just an affinity for those who have uh a diagnosis or or maybe feel
[3:14:37] like they they have those tend uh
[3:14:39] tendencies. Um, but the idea is that
[3:14:42] with what we've created with the clinic
[3:14:45] and the uh community center and now with
[3:14:48] the neighborhood is we're going to
[3:14:50] demonstrate that um all individuals on
[3:14:54] the spectrum are welcome in
[3:14:57] neurodeiverse communities, that they
[3:14:59] have something to share, that they can
[3:15:01] have pride in where they live. they're
[3:15:03] not relinquished to
[3:15:06] um
[3:15:10] group homes, things like that, which now
[3:15:13] are being investigated and and rules are
[3:15:16] changing there. Trisha can tell you more
[3:15:18] about that, but it is definitely an
[3:15:20] autism focused community, but you don't
[3:15:25] need to have a diagnosis.
[3:15:26] >> Right. Thank you. And ma'am, what was
[3:15:28] your name? We just need that for for our
[3:15:30] minutes.
[3:15:32] [panting]
[3:15:32] >> Pamela Moose.
[3:15:34] >> Okay.
[3:15:34] >> And so that means so would the the
[3:15:37] buildings the homes be sold solely to
[3:15:40] people that have autistic tendency or
[3:15:43] are they really open to the public with
[3:15:45] the fair housing laws?
[3:15:46] >> Yes. Open to the public.
[3:15:48] >> Open to the public. Okay. Thank you.
[3:15:51] >> Right. Thank you. Is there anyone else
[3:15:52] who would like to speak to this tonight?
[3:15:58] All right. If you can just state your
[3:16:00] name.
[3:16:00] >> Keith Walker. Again, thank you. I
[3:16:02] happened to sit in this meeting with him
[3:16:05] in the planning commission. I don't know
[3:16:06] a year and a half, two years ago when he
[3:16:08] presented this and the planning
[3:16:10] commission denied him and I was appalled
[3:16:12] at the planning commission for doing
[3:16:14] what they did. The support he had for
[3:16:16] the autism and the community to try to
[3:16:18] build there people that want to buy
[3:16:20] these houses for their kids to support
[3:16:23] the autism thing, I thought was a great
[3:16:25] thing. when I sat and listened to the
[3:16:26] whole structure that I didn't know
[3:16:28] anything about. And so I'm glad when
[3:16:30] that it's back to before the council,
[3:16:33] the the community was fighting him
[3:16:34] because he was trying to put a road
[3:16:35] through and they were all worried about
[3:16:37] the traffic and it just was absurd cuz
[3:16:39] those developments now are being
[3:16:41] developed and the roads are going
[3:16:42] through and he got denied a year and a
[3:16:45] half to two years ago. And I'm glad to
[3:16:47] see this happen and I'm grateful for to
[3:16:49] see I hope what I've witnessed here
[3:16:51] tonight come to
[3:16:54] fruition of what I witnessed a couple
[3:16:56] years ago that I was appalled at what
[3:16:58] happened. So I'm grateful for that for
[3:16:59] the for the applicant. Thank you.
[3:17:02] >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else who
[3:17:04] would like to speak to this?
[3:17:11] » Okay. Welcome. And go ahead and state
[3:17:12] your name.
[3:17:16] Good evening. This is Marian Baxter and
[3:17:18] I live in Southwest Orm. And I will tell
[3:17:21] you in Wildwood Hollow where we raised
[3:17:24] our family for over 36 years,
[3:17:28] the healthiest combination within that
[3:17:31] neighborhood was that it always from the
[3:17:34] time in the 70s when it was first built
[3:17:37] to today has been a mix of every age and
[3:17:42] stage of life. And I was not aware of
[3:17:46] this community until tonight and this
[3:17:49] development request. But I will tell
[3:17:51] you, the more that we integrate, ORM has
[3:17:55] always had a reputation of being a
[3:17:58] patchwork quilt of high-end homes to
[3:18:02] every stage and size because people love
[3:18:06] their neighborhoods. And there is a way
[3:18:08] to make a difference in communities by
[3:18:12] involving a healthy mix. And from what
[3:18:16] I've heard briefly this evening in the
[3:18:19] work meeting before and thank you for
[3:18:23] having those online
[3:18:25] um I literally appreciate how much ORM
[3:18:29] has the ability to welcome all and
[3:18:33] create safe and productive
[3:18:34] neighborhoods. So, thank you for your
[3:18:37] attention. All right. Thank you.
[3:18:40] Anyone else who'd like to speak to this evening?
[3:18:45] All right. I'll go ahead and close the
[3:18:47] public hearing and bring this back to
[3:18:48] the city council council. As you'll
[3:18:50] recall, this came to us in May and we
[3:18:55] had a discussion about it then and asked
[3:18:58] the applicant if they would like to come
[3:19:00] back with a road uh that would connect
[3:19:03] to Geneva Road and and at that point we
[3:19:07] encouraged them to do so. And so they've
[3:19:10] done that. And so I would open this up
[3:19:14] for discussion or
[3:19:16] on this as we're reviewing this again.
[3:19:22] >> Yeah, go ahead.
[3:19:25] >> Thank you, mayor. I just I just want to
[3:19:26] say uh how grateful I am to the
[3:19:29] applicant. Um I remember that meeting
[3:19:31] very well. It was very emotional
[3:19:32] meeting. Uh not in a bad way, but in a
[3:19:36] very good way. And uh I just want to say
[3:19:40] thank you uh first of all for the
[3:19:42] amazing work that you do. Um I think
[3:19:45] it's important. I think it's
[3:19:47] compassionate. I think it's
[3:19:49] life-changing
[3:19:51] uh for all involved. And so I want to
[3:19:54] say thank you for that. Secondly, I want
[3:19:57] to say thank you for reworking your
[3:19:59] plan, for listening to the neighbors,
[3:20:01] the concerns that came up and coming up
[3:20:03] with what I think is a beautiful a beautiful plan moving
[3:20:07] forward. So, thank you for for being
[3:20:11] here again and again, thank you for
[3:20:13] listening and and for the great things
[3:20:14] that you're doing.
[3:20:15] >> Right. Thank you, Council Member Millet
[3:20:18] and then Council Member Gail.
[3:20:20] >> Yeah, I just want to echo that. You
[3:20:22] know, I've been here for this process
[3:20:24] and it's been arduous and I appreciate
[3:20:26] your patience. Our planning process is
[3:20:28] sometimes very difficult. We do have to
[3:20:30] listen to everyone and we do have to
[3:20:32] provide access for everyone and just so
[3:20:35] grateful for this exit onto Geneva. I
[3:20:38] think we have a win-win here with both
[3:20:40] neighborhoods on that. And I just want
[3:20:42] to say thank you for the invitation to
[3:20:44] your grand opening. That was so amazing.
[3:20:47] I have um um a nephew with autism. I
[3:20:52] have neighbors across the street. Four
[3:20:53] of their five kids have autism, you
[3:20:55] know, and I it was so and I saw them at
[3:20:59] the your grand opening, my neighbors. It
[3:21:01] was so incredible to see the work that
[3:21:03] you do and to see from when I'm thinking
[3:21:06] four years ago is when the first time I
[3:21:07] met you three or four years ago and um
[3:21:10] just to see how your dream is coming
[3:21:13] together. I appreciate that and just
[3:21:15] thank you for the service that you offer
[3:21:17] and for the patience with our process.
[3:21:19] Thank you so much.
[3:21:22] I just want to say I was so happy to see
[3:21:24] you on the agenda when I opened my email
[3:21:26] and said there they are. They've done
[3:21:27] it. They put the road through. So I'm
[3:21:28] happy that you were able to do it. Thank
[3:21:29] you for the work you do and I just echo
[3:21:31] everything that council members Millet
[3:21:32] and Lamson have said. So happy to see
[3:21:34] you here.
[3:21:35] >> All right. Thank you. Anybody virtually
[3:21:38] would like would you like to have any
[3:21:39] comment?
[3:21:43] » This is Quinn. Ju just
[3:21:45] >> Okay. Um go ahead Quinn.
[3:21:46] >> Yeah. Thank you so much for your
[3:21:48] flexibility on this. Um I'm also delighted. Thank you.
[3:21:56] » All right. Yes. I'm I was so I in fact I
[3:22:01] asked I can't remember who I asked. I
[3:22:03] said when when is it on the agenda?
[3:22:05] When's it coming back? And because I
[3:22:07] can't wait to vote yes on this. And I
[3:22:09] think it's a a wonderful project for our
[3:22:12] community. And I want to thank you too
[3:22:16] as well for the work you do. We we've
[3:22:19] talked and thank you. That's all I'll
[3:22:22] say. Thank you for what you what you do.
[3:22:25] Um council.
[3:22:28] All right.
[3:22:30] >> A motion. Do you want me to do a motion?
[3:22:32] >> Yes, I would love for you to do a
[3:22:33] motion. I move to approve amending
[3:22:35] article 2253A
[3:22:37] and the zoning map of the city of Warren
[3:22:39] by changing the zone of the properties
[3:22:41] located generally at 1875 South Geneva
[3:22:44] Road from OS5 open space to PRD planned
[3:22:49] residential development and to amend
[3:22:52] appendix KK site plan farm haven to
[3:22:55] include the subject property and amend
[3:22:58] the project layout.
[3:22:59] >> Thank you. We have a motion. Is there a
[3:23:01] second?
[3:23:02] >> I second. Right. Thank you, Council
[3:23:04] Member Gail. We have a motion in a
[3:23:05] second. Is there any discussion? Any
[3:23:07] more discussion? [gasps] All right. I'm
[3:23:08] going to go ahead and vote I. Council
[3:23:10] member Lamson.
[3:23:11] >> I.
[3:23:13] >> Council member Kilpac.
[3:23:16] >> I.
[3:23:17] >> Council member Muellstein.
[3:23:19] >> I.
[3:23:20] >> Council [snorts] member Mikum.
[3:23:22] >> I.
[3:23:23] >> Right. Thank you. Motion passes
[3:23:25] unanimously.
[3:23:27] Thank you.
[3:23:29] All right. We now have our city manager
[3:23:32] information items. We'll turn the time
[3:23:34] over to our city manager, um, Bren
[3:23:36] Bbeby.
[3:23:38] >> Many of you were at the Aloha Fest this
[3:23:41] last weekend. We already have the
[3:23:43] participation
[3:23:44] uh, uh, estimates and the attendance of
[3:23:48] the Aloha Fest rivaled Lights On and
[3:23:52] Taste of Orum. So, two of our bigger
[3:23:55] events. So, pretty exciting. So, we
[3:23:56] continue to be a magnet for for great uh
[3:23:59] community events and we have
[3:24:02] >> I have to give an award to the mayor
[3:24:04] because she sat in a chair in the sun
[3:24:08] for the first 30 minutes or so, right?
[3:24:10] They you I was sitting there thinking,
[3:24:13] move her in the shade, please.
[3:24:15] [laughter] But it was fabulous and your your comments were so wonderful
[3:24:19] there. So, thank you.
[3:24:20] >> Well, thank you. It was it was a lot of
[3:24:22] fun. And yes, if you I hope that that
[3:24:26] they we can continue to be their hosts.
[3:24:29] So,
[3:24:30] >> and if I could add something, we were
[3:24:31] there uh in the evening and that park
[3:24:35] was packed
[3:24:37] and it was so fun and we were astounded
[3:24:41] to see Ian Tongi perform. He was not
[3:24:45] anywhere in any of the material that we
[3:24:47] had seen, but uh we had a an American
[3:24:50] Idol winner here in Ormfest or not
[3:24:53] Ormfest in Orm City Park for Aloha Fest.
[3:24:56] And that place was bumping. I mean, it
[3:24:58] was so much fun. And uh anyway, thank
[3:25:03] you to whoever made that happen because
[3:25:05] it was awesome.
[3:25:07] >> Yeah, it was um I can't remember saying
[3:25:09] his last name and his family, but the
[3:25:11] his foundation that
[3:25:14] We're glad it was a huge success and
[3:25:15] we'll, you know, continue to to help it
[3:25:18] moving forward. And speaking of being
[3:25:21] out in the sun, we will have a tent for
[3:25:23] you all at the World Folk Fest. That is
[3:25:26] tomorrow. 5:45 p.m. is when it starts.
[3:25:30] Your tent will be right next to the the
[3:25:32] outdoor stage there. And just be aware
[3:25:35] the nine uh countries that are having
[3:25:38] representatives come. They want to take
[3:25:40] photos with y'all and they have a you
[3:25:42] know small gift to to share. So
[3:25:46] >> that and that's tomorrow night council
[3:25:48] starting at 5
[3:25:49] >> 5:45 All right. Thank you. Anything
[3:25:54] else?
[3:25:55] All done. Okay. Council, we have one
[3:25:58] more item and that is to adjourn to a
[3:26:00] closed session in the summit concert uh
[3:26:03] conference concert summit concert room.
[3:26:05] We're going to have a a karaoke night.
[3:26:08] Adjourn to a close session in the summit
[3:26:10] conference room to discuss pending or
[3:26:12] reasonably imminent litigation, the
[3:26:14] character or professional competence of
[3:26:15] an individual or the purchase of or
[3:26:17] lease of real property.
[3:26:18] >> So moved.
[3:26:19] >> Thank you. Have a motion, a second.
[3:26:22] >> Second.
[3:26:22] >> All right. Thank you. A motion and a
[3:26:24] second. Um, go ahead, Council Member
[3:26:26] Lamson. How do you vote?
[3:26:27] >> I Council Member Milstein,
[3:26:32] >> I.
[3:26:33] >> Council member Mikum,
[3:26:37] » Council Member Kilpac,
[3:26:39] >> I.
[3:26:40] >> All right. Thank you. We're going to go
[3:26:41] ahead and adjourn to a closed door
[3:26:43] session.