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right now. I think

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>> I think I would say maybe um

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» I think I would say maybe um

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>> because right now it's just going to be

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» because right now it's just going to be

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>> it's just what

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» it's just what

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>> it's just going to be council member

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» it's just going to be council member

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Hawky.

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>> Yeah, maybe put it on since she's there.

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» Yeah, maybe put it on since she's there.

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Yes, that'd be great. Thanks for asking.

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» [sighs]

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» Good evening and welcome. Sorry we're

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starting a minute late. Um to tonight's

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March 3rd regular meeting of the Arinda

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City Council. I'll ask the city clerk to

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please uh call the role. And we have um

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one remote uh hello council member

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Hawky. Sorry for the uh the tardy start.

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>> It's all right. Hello.

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» It's all right. Hello.

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>> So, note for the record that all council

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» So, note for the record that all council

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members are present.

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>> Actually, we have

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» Actually, we have

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>> Well, except the one that you just noted

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» Well, except the one that you just noted

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who's

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>> and the excused absence.

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» and the excused absence.

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>> Oh, so I'm so sorry. [laughter]

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» Oh, so I'm so sorry. [laughter]

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>> So, we are missing Janet tonight.

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» So, we are missing Janet tonight.

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>> Yes,

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» Yes,

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>> she has an excuse absence.

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» she has an excuse absence.

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>> Yes, she does.

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» Yes, she does.

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>> Okay. Thank you. And so, note that.

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» Okay. Thank you. And so, note that.

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>> Thank you. And with that, um we will

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» Thank you. And with that, um we will

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please stand for the pledge of

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allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America of America, the

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republic for which it stands,

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>> one nation,

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» one nation,

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>> indivisible, liberty and justice for

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» indivisible, liberty and justice for

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all.

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>> Thank you.

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The next um item is to adopt the agenda.

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And I will once again um suggest that we

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do the council member I mean uh city

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manager and council member reports um

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before we go to the regular business. So

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that would be after public forum and

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consent calendar. Um with that proposal,

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do I have a second?

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>> I'll second it.

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» I'll second it.

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>> All in favor?

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» All in favor?

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Hi.

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>> All right. So, unfortunately because we

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» All right. So, unfortunately because we

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have a member has a by roll call

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tonight.

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» Council member uh Hawky.

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>> Yeah. I

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» Yeah. I

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>> council member Marani.

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» council member Marani.

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>> I Vice Mayor G.

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» I Vice Mayor G.

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>> I mayor Iverson

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» I mayor Iverson

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>> I. Thank you. With that we have an

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» I. Thank you. With that we have an

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agenda. We'll move on to items for the

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good of the city. Uh our first item is

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to introduce uh two new employees uh

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Cole Heslip and Estella Ramirez. Do we

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have uh some people to come and

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introduce them? I it will be me uh

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introducing Cole. Cole, would you mind

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standing up to the public podium? And

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I'm delighted to introduce you to Cole

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Heslip who joined the city as this our

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assistant to the city manager. Man, uh

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Cole uh is I'm sorry. Cole most recently

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served as a senior management analyst

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with the city of Wheatidge, Colorado,

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where he led the city's innovation team

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and implementing operational

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improvements and served as staff liaison

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to the community partners grant program

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committee and the legislative advocacy

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program. He was also a key member of

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their budget team and collaborative

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collaborated across departments to

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support a variety of citywide

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initiatives. Prior to working in

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Wheatidge, Cole worked for the city of

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Vanetta in Oregon in the city manager's

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office where he led economic

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development, emergency management, and

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social media communications. His

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professional background includes the

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roles in the city of Aspen and served as

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a management consultant with CA

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University Public Management. That's

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correct. That's correct.

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>> Uh he earned his mers in public

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» Uh he earned his mers in public

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administration from the University of

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Kansas, his bachelor in political

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science from Humbult. And while Cole has

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recently [clears throat] relocated to

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join us, he's very familiar with

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California territory. He grew up in

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Humboldt and he has family in nearby

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Moraga. So, if you could join me in um

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uh joining uh I don't know why I can't

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talk tonight. I apologize, Cole. Uh in

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welcoming Cole to the city of Arinda.

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» Cole, welcome. I know we've got a big

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pile of work for you to do. I'm pretty

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excited to have you start. Did you want

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to say a few words?

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>> Yeah, I just want to say thank you so

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» Yeah, I just want to say thank you so

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much for the opportunity to join the

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team here at the city of Arinda. Uh like

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you said, uh Linda has got a lot of

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projects ready for the city to take on

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and I'm excited to get started on some

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of them, join some of the ones that are

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already ongoing and uh continue to

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support the community and the

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organization here. So, I look forward to

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working with the council and the

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community for

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>> Thank you. We're looking forward to

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» Thank you. We're looking forward to

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working with you as well.

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>> Thanks, Cole.

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» Thanks, Cole.

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>> Thank you.

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» Thank you.

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>> And then next up will be Estella

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» And then next up will be Estella

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and Scott will do her introduction.

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>> Good evening, city council. Scott

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» Good evening, city council. Scott

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Christie, public works director. I'm

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also pleased to introduce Estella

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Ramirez, who joins us as our new

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management analyst in the public works

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and engineering department. So, we're

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excited about this position because it

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kind of combines some of the engineering

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technician tasks with management

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analysts and u those sort of related

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tasks, you know, including records

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management, responding to public records

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requests. a lot of things that engineers

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have typically done, you know, in

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addition to helping us out with some of

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the administration of the clean water

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NPDES program from the standpoint of

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helping coate reports, provide reports

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to the uh state water board, etc. help

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us with grant administration, the

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capital budget and things like that. So,

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Asella comes to us from the city of

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Pleasanton where she handled some

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administrative tasks in the business uh

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development area. Also, again, she

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handled some of the same tasks that I

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mentioned there for for their

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department. Also, she's worked with the

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city of San Leandro in the engineering

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department there. So, she's wellversed

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with, I believe, what we do and we're

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looking forward to having her help us

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out. And then she's also worked in the

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past with the city of Oakland and also

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the county of Marin. She has a

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bachelor's degree in business

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administration with an emphasis in

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public administration. So with that,

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I'll um introduce Estella.

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>> Hi. [laughter]

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» Thank you. Thank you so much for the

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warm welcome. Um, just really grateful

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to be part of the team and I'm eager to

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contribute. Um,

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Scott, Doug, and Linda already have me

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diving right in. I've been busy my last

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two weeks, and I just look forward to

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bringing my skills to um improving our

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processes, streamlining so that we can

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better serve the community with greater

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efficiency. And yeah, I look forward to

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supporting council initiatives and

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priorities in any way I can. So, thank

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you again. Oh, and I do want to note I

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was an executive assistant to the um

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council in San Leandro. So, I want to

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thank you very much for your service. I

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know it's a lot more than just two

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meetings a month. So, thank you for

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that. [gasps and sighs]

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>> Thank you. It sounds like you have an

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» Thank you. It sounds like you have an

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incredible background for this position.

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So, thank you for joining and we look

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forward to working with you. Does anyone

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else have anything? We'll um Yeah,

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welcome. Welcome to both of our new

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employees. Thank you so much for

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serving, Arinda.

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>> Thank you. And with that, we'll move on

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» Thank you. And with that, we'll move on

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to our next item uh for the good of the

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city, which is a certificate of

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recognition for American Red Cross

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Month. Um we do have a representative

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tonight, Eva Marquez, uh from the Red

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Cross. I'm going to do I'm going to talk

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for um just a minute with some of the um

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the really cool uh just introductory

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notes that were shared with us and then

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um we'll do the certificate and see if

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you'd like to say a few words as well.

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Um the American Red Cross volunteers

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have stepped up to deliver relief and

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care across our country and around the

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world, bringing out the best of humanity

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in times of crisis as Clara Barton,

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founder of American Red Cross did over

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140 years ago. The volunteers, blood and

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platelet donors, and supporters shine a

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beacon of hope in people's darkest

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hours. Delivering shelter, food, and

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comfort during disasters, providing

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critical blood donations for hospital

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patients, supporting service members,

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veterans, and their families, and saving

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lives with first aid, CPR, AED, and

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other skills. With 1,148

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volunteers in Contraosta County, the

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American Red Cross assisted or responded

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to 101 disasters assisting 190 families

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through their sound the alarm program.

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Um, and through the sound the alarm

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program, the American Red Cross

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installed 778 smoke alarms, making 241

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homes safer, and trained 425 students

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through the youth preparedness programs.

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In addition, Contraosta County residents

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donated 18,299

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units of life-saving blood, hosted 530

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blood drives, and trained 12,164

273
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citizens in first aid, CPR, AED, and

274
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,640
aquatics, and provided 463 case services

275
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,200
to military members and their families.

276
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,960
This work to uplift our community is

277
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,280
made possible by those who selflessly

278
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,200
answer the call to help whenever and

279
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,360
wherever it is needed. We hereby

280
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,520
recognize this month of March in honor

281
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,600
of their remarkable service. And we ask

282
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,679
everyone to join in their commitment to

283
00:18:19,679 --> 00:18:22,720
care for one another. And um with that,

284
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,039
I will bring the certificate and or do

285
00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:26,000
you want to do you want to say a few

286
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,160
words first and then we'll um do a

287
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,039
photo?

288
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:31,750
>> Absolutely. Thank you, Mayor, Vice

289
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:31,760
» Absolutely. Thank you, Mayor, Vice

290
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,799
Mayor, Council Members G. Good evening.

291
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:36,880
My name is Eva Marquez. I'm the

292
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,880
volunteer engagement manager for the

293
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,760
American Red Cross. I handle Contra

294
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,039
Costa Alamita and the entire North Bay

295
00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:46,799
and I've been with the organization for

296
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:49,760
about 35 years. And so I'm I'm so

297
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,760
grateful that I have the opportunity to

298
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,799
be here tonight and we're so um

299
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:56,880
delighted that we're partnering with the

300
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,840
city of Arinda. Um it's been truly an

301
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,880
American Red Cross joy to able to

302
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,000
partner with the city of Orinda. um and

303
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,000
to continue our commitment because of

304
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,400
your support that we're able to be there

305
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,799
and respond to disasters whenever it's

306
00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:16,000
needed. And we've already partnered with

307
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,080
some of the employees and they got

308
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,120
trained in sheltering um and in hope

309
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,799
that when there's a large disaster in

310
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:25,520
Contra Cara that we are prepared and to

311
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,440
be there for the community whenever it's

312
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,760
needed. So, thank you so much for that

313
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,679
and we look forward to working with you.

314
00:19:31,679 --> 00:19:34,559
And if there's anything that we can do,

315
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:38,000
preparedness, handsonly CPR or blood

316
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,880
drive or even volunteering to build our

317
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,880
capacity so that we can be there right

318
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,320
away when something happened. Um, let me

319
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,640
know because again, I'm in volunteer

320
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,480
services. So, we're always building our

321
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,039
capacity to respond right away when

322
00:19:53,039 --> 00:20:03,909
there's a need. So, thank you so much.

323
00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:06,080
there an opportunity for public comment

324
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,200
on this?

325
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,630
>> Sure. Why don't we do the certificate

326
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:08,640
» Sure. Why don't we do the certificate

327
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:09,840
and then we'll take public comment.

328
00:20:09,840 --> 00:21:10,390
>> Thank you.

329
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,240
And with that, we'll ask if uh there is

330
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,440
public comment on this matter. It

331
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:19,510
appears we have uh one speaker.

332
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,120
» Good evening. [clears throat] For

333
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,600
forgive my attire. I just came from my

334
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,520
oldest granddaughter's softball

335
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,400
practice, so I'm a hodgepodge of a dress

336
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,240
shirt and other clothing.

337
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,760
I just want to say, as I said last year,

338
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,440
I have no issue with the uh American Red

339
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,640
Cross and I have no issue with our local

340
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,280
people who spoke here.

341
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,280
But I think it's important for the

342
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,039
public record that people understand

343
00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:57,679
that the local Red Cross is different

344
00:21:57,679 --> 00:22:00,320
and independent from the abomination

345
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,600
known as the International Red Cross,

346
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,840
which most notably didn't lift a finger

347
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,520
or pay any visit to any of the Israeli

348
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,080
hostages captured

349
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,200
during the terrorist attack of October.

350
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,919
7, 2023.

351
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:24,799
And as the council made clear last year,

352
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:30,080
honoring the local Red Cross folks

353
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,590
uh is not any,

354
00:22:32,590 --> 00:22:35,120
[clears throat] excuse me, endorsement

355
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:39,600
or honoring of the National Red Cross.

356
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,240
I'm not here to ask you to condemn them.

357
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,559
I condemn them, but I just want to be

358
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:47,200
clear that we're just because they share

359
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,280
the name quote red cross unquote quote

360
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,840
in their names that nothing that is

361
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,760
happening here tonight is honoring

362
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,240
the very awful people running the

363
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,960
International Red Cross. Thank you. My

364
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,159
name for the record is Nick Warrenoff.

365
00:23:06,159 --> 00:23:09,200
I've lived in Arinda for over 23 years.

366
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,039
Thank you.

367
00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:12,149
>> Thank you.

368
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:12,159
» Thank you.

369
00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:13,679
Uh is there anybody else who would like

370
00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:16,559
to speak on um either of the items for

371
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:18,559
the good of the city?

372
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:20,640
Seeing none, we will now go to the

373
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,520
public forum. The public forum is an

374
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,280
opportunity for members of the public to

375
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,559
speak on any item within the

376
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,240
jurisdiction of the city that is not on

377
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,960
the agenda. In addition, uh a speaker

378
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,400
has the option of addressing the council

379
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,080
of an on an item that's listed on the

380
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,080
agenda if the speaker will not be

381
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,840
present when the agenda item is taken

382
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,120
up. Um, we ask that people limit

383
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,880
comments to three minutes and I'll ask

384
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,880
if we have anyone for public comment. I

385
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,120
have I mean uh for public forum. I have

386
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,640
not checked. Yeah, we have um at least

387
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,280
one which is uh Emily Pulkari for public

388
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,000
forum. Please come on up.

389
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,600
And actually we have a second one as

390
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,440
well. [clears throat]

391
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,789
>> Hi, thank you. Um I wanted to make sure

392
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:02,799
» Hi, thank you. Um I wanted to make sure

393
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:05,120
that you all got my email about the

394
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,400
serious accident on Coral. Um it was

395
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,880
very jarring to have that happen a week

396
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,039
after we had been discussing the safety

397
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:17,600
measures. Um I don't want to,

398
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,120
you know, there was a young person

399
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,360
involved. I don't want to go into um

400
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,559
anything too detailed, but um I'm

401
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,960
requesting that you expedite do whatever

402
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,679
you can to expedite bringing that up for

403
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:32,559
a vote, the safety measures on Coral and

404
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:35,279
whatever you can um in terms of

405
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:37,760
instituting temporary safety measures

406
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,720
like the temporary sidewalk. If we could

407
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,520
get some enforcement out there, that

408
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,919
would really, I think, go a long way. I

409
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:48,720
know that um safety at the elementary

410
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,799
schools is important and I've seen

411
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:53,600
myself that that's effective. Um but

412
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,840
some circulation I think would really

413
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,799
help. Um

414
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:00,880
and that's it. Thank you. Oh, one other

415
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,880
thing. If you are I don't know exactly

416
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,880
what the plan would be for the sidewalk.

417
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,640
I don't like if it would be like the

418
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,360
sidewalk on Moraga Way which only takes

419
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,799
up street or if it would um go into

420
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:16,080
people's yards. But this neighbor who I

421
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,240
don't know should probably know before

422
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,200
they go about fixing their property um

423
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,279
if it's going if a sidewalk is going to

424
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:28,720
go in there. Um so thank you.

425
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,310
>> Thank you. And while we cannot comment

426
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:30,320
» Thank you. And while we cannot comment

427
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,440
on that, I would just note for the

428
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,039
record that we had several letters this

429
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:34,559
week on the same topic and appreciate

430
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:36,400
you coming to speak in person about it.

431
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,669
>> Okay. Thank you. Um we also have a I'm

432
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:39,679
» Okay. Thank you. Um we also have a I'm

433
00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:40,799
sorry. Did you have any questions or

434
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:44,000
comments? Okay. Um, we also have Shaheen

435
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,080
uh Tons and I hope I'm uh pronouncing

436
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,400
your name correctly. Come on up.

437
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:54,950
>> Ton, thank you.

438
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,360
» Good [clears throat] evening.

439
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,430
>> Uh, I'm here to talk about the agenda

440
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:59,440
» Uh, I'm here to talk about the agenda

441
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,240
item H2 actually because I won't be here

442
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,679
when it comes up on the agenda.

443
00:26:05,679 --> 00:26:08,559
Um this was an item to do with revising

444
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,679
the private road acceptance policy that

445
00:26:11,679 --> 00:26:14,400
was uh instituted a few years ago and

446
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,240
which has been a focus of the uh

447
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,440
infrastructure subcommittee.

448
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,679
Uh I sent a communication earlier today

449
00:26:21,679 --> 00:26:25,440
to to the board uh to the council sorry

450
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,039
and I hope that you all get a chance to

451
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:29,679
read it at some point.

452
00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:31,600
Um but when I did that there was one

453
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,400
point I forgot to mention and one of

454
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,480
those points was authorize the city

455
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,440
engineer to grant exceptions.

456
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,760
Uh I feel that's a very bad idea and

457
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,720
it's nothing to do with Scott. Um what

458
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,120
will happen if you do this it will make

459
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,640
the whole policy effectively toothless

460
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,080
because the city engineer will be

461
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,400
allowed to grant exceptions to it. The

462
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,400
engineer will become he or she will

463
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,360
become subject to political pressure and

464
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:00,960
be put in a very uncomfortable

465
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,720
situation.

466
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,120
And also once an exception is granted

467
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,000
other people will want exceptions

468
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,400
which might be similar but not quite the

469
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,799
same. They might claim discrimination if

470
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:14,400
they're not granted the exception at

471
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,400
that point.

472
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,440
Uh that's all I have to say on that and

473
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,960
uh I know that there's going to be a

474
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,200
vote on this uh revision to the policy

475
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,919
soon. Uh I'd like the council just to

476
00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:27,440
remember

477
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,679
to my knowledge Orinda is the only city

478
00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:32,159
really going down this path. uh many

479
00:27:32,159 --> 00:27:34,559
other cities have considered it back in

480
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:38,240
2017 18 and they all after a while

481
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,720
rejected doing anything about it and

482
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,799
Arinda is pretty much the only city

483
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,440
going ahead with it and is that a good

484
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,840
idea or is it raising red flags if

485
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,799
everybody else isn't doing it so that's

486
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:53,840
just something to consider um so that's

487
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,480
all so please read my communication

488
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,480
perhaps speak to councils from the other

489
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,279
cities um get some second legal opinions

490
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:07,840
from people you know and um then decide.

491
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,520
Thanks.

492
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,789
>> Thank you and thank you for coming to

493
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:10,799
» Thank you and thank you for coming to

494
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:13,200
speak tonight. Uh it looks like do we

495
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:19,750
have another speaker on public?

496
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,310
» Thank you and good evening.

497
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,240
Over

498
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,919
the last couple of years,

499
00:28:29,919 --> 00:28:34,559
there have been movements

500
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:39,360
uh such as United Against Hate,

501
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,440
Californians Against Hate,

502
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,120
and the like. And as some of you may

503
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,960
recall, I have opposed those for a

504
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,104
variety of reasons.

505
00:28:55,114 --> 00:28:56,480
» [clears throat]

506
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,230
>> My worst fears have been realized

507
00:29:00,230 --> 00:29:00,240
» My worst fears have been realized

508
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,200
because at

509
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,799
the most recent meeting of our local

510
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:13,120
high school board, the Alkalani Union

511
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,909
High School District,

512
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:21,190
people

513
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,240
spoke up

514
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,840
asking the board

515
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,880
to ban

516
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,029
a student club

517
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:37,919
called Club America,

518
00:29:37,919 --> 00:29:40,799
which is an outgrowth of Turning Point

519
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:43,360
USA,

520
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,520
founded by the late Charlie Kirk.

521
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,039
And

522
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:52,559
this is a community that

523
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:54,399
this when I say this I'm talking about

524
00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:57,440
Lamarinda is a community that prides

525
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,360
itself ostentatiously as being in

526
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,039
support of diversity and inclusion.

527
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:07,120
But what happened at the high school

528
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,720
board meeting was that several people

529
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,715
spoke at the public forum

530
00:30:13,715 --> 00:30:17,360
[snorts] asking the board to ban

531
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,080
Club America

532
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,799
because they did not like the fact that

533
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:26,880
it was a conservative organization

534
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,679
and they

535
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:31,200
pretended

536
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,600
that there that this that it was a hate

537
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,080
organization.

538
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,279
And as you all know, the first amendment

539
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:41,360
provides for freedom of speech and

540
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,360
association,

541
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,600
freedom for the thought and the speech

542
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,559
we hate. Hate speech is constitutionally

543
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:50,960
protected.

544
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,000
And when these people spoke against Club

545
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,320
America,

546
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,440
the people in the audience applauded the

547
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,440
speakers asking that that group of

548
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,159
students be banned.

549
00:31:04,159 --> 00:31:07,039
and Superintendent Nickerson and the

550
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:09,039
members of the school of the high school

551
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:13,440
board did not have the courage

552
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,600
to stand up to those people and tell

553
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,640
them no, the first amendment allows them

554
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,159
to to be a c an onampus club. So I just

555
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:28,480
urge you

556
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,279
next time you think about

557
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:34,720
your United Against Hate campaign to

558
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,840
reel it in. Thank you.

559
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,909
>> Thank you. Is there anyone uh first of

560
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:39,919
» Thank you. Is there anyone uh first of

561
00:31:39,919 --> 00:31:42,399
all any comments on that or which I

562
00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:44,080
guess we can't really comment. Um

563
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,919
anybody else for public for public

564
00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:47,919
forum?

565
00:31:47,919 --> 00:31:50,880
Great. Seeing none, um we will move to

566
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,880
our modified agenda. We're going to do

567
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,480
council member and city manager reports

568
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,320
uh just to do announcements before we

569
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,720
get into the main agenda. Uh does anyone

570
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,200
have any meeting or uh other updates

571
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,269
they'd like to share?

572
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:12,789
» You you

573
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,000
have a little bit of a list. So if you

574
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,760
think of one uh hold up your hand by the

575
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,279
time I'm done. [laughter]

576
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:19,760
First of all, I just came from the

577
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,440
Lamarind to Sunrise Rotary Good

578
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,559
Character Awards. Um, you may know those

579
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:26,880
from the newspaper where they take three

580
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,799
um standout middle schoolers from each

581
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:32,799
of our middle schoolers, Stanley, um,

582
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:37,760
uh, JM and OIS and uh, and give awards

583
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,440
for what they think is outstanding

584
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,519
character and um, it was just a

585
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:44,000
wonderful chance to recognize some of

586
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,919
our young citizens. Um, we did coffee

587
00:32:47,919 --> 00:32:50,480
with the mayor on February 25th where we

588
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,919
talked a lot about what's going on in

589
00:32:51,919 --> 00:32:53,440
our business community, economic

590
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,000
development, some changes in our small

591
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,679
business community, and just answered

592
00:32:57,679 --> 00:32:59,279
some questions. Um, they did ask

593
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:00,799
questions about what's going on with the

594
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:03,840
BART um funding, and it was just a

595
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,960
really nice uh interactive forum. On

596
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,640
Saturday this past week, we did our

597
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,720
commission and committee interviews uh

598
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,039
and look forward to um welcoming some

599
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:14,720
new faces onto our city commissions and

600
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,799
committees soon. Um we also got a

601
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:21,679
legislative update from Cal Cities uh

602
00:33:21,679 --> 00:33:23,600
last Thursday where we had senators

603
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,399
Grayson Mcernney and Rahab come and talk

604
00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:27,760
about some of the bills that are coming

605
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,919
along this year and um take some

606
00:33:29,919 --> 00:33:32,320
questions from people about uh what to

607
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,080
expect and what their priorities are.

608
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,880
So, it was nice for um I think everybody

609
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,960
here tonight was there to hear firsthand

610
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,679
what's coming along from Sacramento. Uh

611
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:45,200
and finally, we um I had not done a

612
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,600
certificate, but it is Women's History

613
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,880
Month in the month of March. And so, uh,

614
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,480
since we learned today that the Myati

615
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,399
Gym is officially being named the

616
00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:59,120
Sabrino, um, UNESCO, uh, gym, I've asked

617
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,799
that it be put on our agenda for our

618
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:02,399
next meeting, uh, the second meeting in

619
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:04,480
March to do a little bit of an

620
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,559
acknowledgement for what a cool moment

621
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:08,079
that is in women's history to have

622
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:09,919
somebody so special that we get to honor

623
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:12,879
with renaming our gym. Uh, with that, is

624
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:14,758
there anything else that anyone forgot

625
00:34:14,758 --> 00:34:16,399
[clears throat] or would like to add?

626
00:34:16,399 --> 00:34:18,560
I'll ask the city manager for her

627
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:19,599
reports as well.

628
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:21,270
>> Uh thank you honorable mayor, members of

629
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:21,280
» Uh thank you honorable mayor, members of

630
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,679
city council. Uh just a couple of quick

631
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:27,280
updates. Uh this past couple last week

632
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,679
we had uh training sessions for Ladis,

633
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,000
our evacuation planning tool for

634
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,240
residents uh in the audience and those

635
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:35,839
potentially watching at home. You can

636
00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:39,760
visit arinda ready.com and um use our

637
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,679
evacuation modeling tool to take a look

638
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,599
at over a hundred different scenarios

639
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:46,960
for evacuation. Uh the model itself is

640
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,560
going to be updated. Uh the consultant

641
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,200
Ladress, the company that uh offers the

642
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,679
program is making updates to its

643
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:57,839
modeling including embercasting. And so

644
00:34:57,839 --> 00:34:59,440
over the next couple of weeks, we'll be

645
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,880
including that as part of the public

646
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,960
portal as well.

647
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,520
Just a quick update on the information

648
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,079
related to BART. Uh we did receive some

649
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:09,839
correspondence from BART that after

650
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:12,800
their last work session uh the BART

651
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,200
board determined that they were going to

652
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,480
apply what they're calling the

653
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,880
alternative service framework. A little

654
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,560
bit different from what we reported at

655
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,480
our last meeting in so much that they

656
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,440
are not uh they won't be looking at

657
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,160
station closures in the first sort of

658
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,240
round. If there is no um revenue measure

659
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:34,000
that either is placed on the ballot or

660
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,240
passed in November, they will be looking

661
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:39,520
at service cuts first and then looking

662
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,200
to 2027 2028 for station closures. And

663
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,720
they've changed their language around

664
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:46,960
station closures to to say that the

665
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,800
board will make those decisions about

666
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,480
station closures. I think part of what

667
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,760
it I've heard is that they really want

668
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,000
to see what impact writership impacts

669
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,119
there might be from some of those

670
00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:58,640
service cuts before they make any

671
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,800
decisions about station closure. So, I

672
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,480
just wanted to give that update for the

673
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,240
public and for the council that that is

674
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,880
in fact um what they've reported back to

675
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,160
the city. Uh and I will leave it at

676
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,280
that.

677
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,750
>> Thank you very much. Um

678
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:13,760
» Thank you very much. Um

679
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,069
>> mayor, and again I I see that we're

680
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:16,079
» mayor, and again I I see that we're

681
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:17,280
going to have a member of the public who

682
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,880
wants to comment on these items. I was

683
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,160
just going to ask if we had public

684
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,790
comment.

685
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,800
» Thank you. Nick Warrenoff speaking.

686
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,800
The record should reflect

687
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,359
Oh, let me say initially I am pleased to

688
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:40,000
hear that Ladress is going to update

689
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,720
their modeling to take into account

690
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,200
ember casting.

691
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,079
The record should reflect that between

692
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:51,520
the release to the public of the Ladress

693
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,800
software and tonight,

694
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,040
I have been an extremely vigorous

695
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,920
critic of the initial iteration of Ladis

696
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,480
specifically because it did not include

697
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,560
ember casting.

698
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,920
ember casting being that a wildfire

699
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,599
casts

700
00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:20,240
embers a mile or two ahead of itself.

701
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:22,720
And of course, then those embers start

702
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:26,000
spot fires which can render

703
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,440
one or more evacuation routes unusable.

704
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,200
And and when that information

705
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,720
came to light, I very publicly,

706
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:40,560
frequently,

707
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,320
and harshly criticized

708
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,720
that product. So I am very glad to hear

709
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:52,880
that that law, which is only one of

710
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,640
several, is being remedied.

711
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:57,760
And I [clears throat] am sure that

712
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,720
before I get back to my seat in the rear

713
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,701
of this auditorium,

714
00:38:02,701 --> 00:38:04,720
[snorts] the city manager will tell you

715
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,520
that my criticism had absolutely nothing

716
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,320
to do with changing

717
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,720
with Ladress changing its software.

718
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:20,470
Thank you.

719
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,599
Um, with that there are no other

720
00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:26,480
comments on the council member and your

721
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,880
board said that earlier. Uh, I'm sorry.

722
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,550
>> Mic was off. Um, my first uh question is

723
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:34,560
» Mic was off. Um, my first uh question is

724
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,960
if anybody has any changes to the items

725
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,400
on the consent calendar. Anything you'd

726
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,880
like to pull for discussion?

727
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,950
>> Mayor, if I could just mention that uh

728
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:42,960
» Mayor, if I could just mention that uh

729
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,119
we do have item 5.2 two, which is the

730
00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:46,880
ratification of the fire code update. I

731
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,400
mentioned I just wanted to mention that

732
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,480
Chief Isacs is here in the audience if

733
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,200
you had any questions for him prior to

734
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,200
the adoption or if you wanted to have

735
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,000
him come up and speak quickly. I'm

736
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,320
putting him on the spot. He but if you

737
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,640
wanted to make any comments about the

738
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,440
changes to the fire code. I

739
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,829
>> thank you for that opportunity.

740
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:07,839
» thank you for that opportunity.

741
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:11,040
Given that we have the chief here, um I

742
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,000
would just love to pull F2 so we can

743
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,560
simply give him an opportunity to speak.

744
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,560
It's a it's a joy to have him. He's in

745
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,320
the upper right corner trying to hide.

746
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,310
>> I was [laughter] You knew he wouldn't

747
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:24,320
» I was [laughter] You knew he wouldn't

748
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,599
miss that. Um real quickly, uh Chief

749
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:29,280
Isaac, we're going to vote on the other

750
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,560
consent calendar items and then we're

751
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,000
going to do your F2. Uh a few words,

752
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,280
please. Um, so with that, uh, do I have

753
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,119
a motion on, and I would just note for

754
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:40,480
the record that we did get a public

755
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,400
comment on F2 in writing. Um, if items

756
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,200
F1, F3, and F4, do we have a motion to

757
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,560
adopt? So moved. Do I have a second?

758
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:51,190
>> Seconded.

759
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:51,200
» Seconded.

760
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,430
>> Roll call vote, please. City clerk.

761
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:55,440
» Roll call vote, please. City clerk.

762
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,510
>> Council member McConnie.

763
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:57,520
» Council member McConnie.

764
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,589
>> I. Vice Mayor G.

765
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:59,599
» I. Vice Mayor G.

766
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:00,390
>> I.

767
00:40:00,390 --> 00:40:00,400
» I.

768
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,230
>> Council member Hawky.

769
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:02,240
» Council member Hawky.

770
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,550
>> I. Mayor Iverson.

771
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:04,560
» I. Mayor Iverson.

772
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,190
>> I thank you. And with that on I will

773
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:07,200
» I thank you. And with that on I will

774
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,359
bring item F2 up and we'll uh invite

775
00:40:09,359 --> 00:40:11,839
Chief Isacs to please uh just say a few

776
00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:14,240
words.

777
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:15,670
>> Mayor, council members, thank you for

778
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:15,680
» Mayor, council members, thank you for

779
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,160
the opportunity to speak tonight. Every

780
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,480
3 years, the state of California updates

781
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,000
the fire code. They require that we um

782
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,160
make any modifications to the fire code

783
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,079
and then we update it. because we're a

784
00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:30,640
fire district, we have to take it to

785
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,960
both the city and the town as well as

786
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,680
the county for ratification. Um, we do

787
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,079
make amendments to our local fire code.

788
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:40,400
Uh, the majority of those amendments

789
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,280
have been in place since 2020. Um, the

790
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,200
only changes we really made to it where

791
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,280
we took some of the stuff out where the

792
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,079
state fire code has caught up to us. The

793
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:53,359
other um big item or topic for the fire

794
00:40:53,359 --> 00:40:55,760
code this year is the adoption of the

795
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,240
California WOOI code. So traditionally

796
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:01,280
the WOOI standards were found in three

797
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,200
of the code books, the building code,

798
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,839
residential code, and fire code. So, the

799
00:41:05,839 --> 00:41:08,240
state finally kind of got smart and they

800
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:10,880
pulled all those requirements out of

801
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,280
those individual code books and placed

802
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,119
it into uh one code, the wildland urban

803
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:19,359
interface code that is before you this

804
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:22,400
evening. That is a new code. Um we did a

805
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,839
couple um modifications to that just to

806
00:41:25,839 --> 00:41:28,319
streamline some language. It deals with

807
00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:31,119
construction standards. It deals with

808
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:33,599
access uh water standards and also

809
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:36,319
defensible space standards. Once the

810
00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:38,480
state finally decides on what they're

811
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,960
going to do uh with zone zero, the fire

812
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,520
marshall worked uh very closely with

813
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,680
town and city staff as well as the

814
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560
county fire marshall group to make sure

815
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,280
that we were aligned in as many areas as

816
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,520
we could countywide. And that's the

817
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,440
document that you have before you this

818
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,359
evening. Um happy to answer any

819
00:41:57,359 --> 00:42:01,829
questions that you may have.

820
00:42:01,839 --> 00:42:04,640
I had one question. Um, there's the

821
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,200
general principle that our local code

822
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,960
can be more restrictive but not less

823
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,119
than restrictive than the state code.

824
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:12,640
Was there anything in these amendments

825
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,240
where we opted for something a little

826
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:16,880
bit uh different or more restricted

827
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,880
restrictive than the state recommended

828
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:19,839
standards?

829
00:42:19,839 --> 00:42:22,230
>> Uh, yes ma'am. all the modifications

830
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:22,240
» Uh, yes ma'am. all the modifications

831
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,560
that we put into the code uh road with

832
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,760
standards. Um and I'm sorry I forgot to

833
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,400
bring our code with us or with me this

834
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,160
evening, but there were certain areas

835
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,000
that we do go a little more restrictive.

836
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,319
The one that really uh two that jump out

837
00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:38,720
at me, the under eve uh sprinklers for

838
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:41,359
new construction and the road with uh

839
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:43,520
the state code is 20 foot for a new

840
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,720
road. We go 28 ft because we use that

841
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,839
road as a fire break um in areas of the

842
00:42:49,839 --> 00:42:51,760
district. So we also allow for

843
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,000
modification. So if a developer was

844
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,280
coming in and said, "Hey, for X reasons,

845
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,920
I can't meet that 28 foot road width."

846
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:01,359
We can work with them to grant

847
00:43:01,359 --> 00:43:05,829
modifications.

848
00:43:05,839 --> 00:43:08,240
» And just for clarity, uh first of all,

849
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,720
thank you Chief Isaac for being here. Um

850
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,880
and just for clarity, because I know

851
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,560
there's been a lot of talk and a lot of

852
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,040
buzz in our community about when is zone

853
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,520
zero coming, what will it mean locally?

854
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,040
Um these amendments so far there have

855
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,440
been no modifications to MOFD's fire

856
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,680
code around zone zero. Is that correct?

857
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,710
>> That is correct. Uh ordinance 2303 and

858
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:30,720
» That is correct. Uh ordinance 2303 and

859
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:34,400
2303 or 2308 still stand. We have not

860
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,880
made any changes. We have the two-foot

861
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,359
non-combustible zone, not the 5- foot

862
00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:41,280
that uh the state's going to implement

863
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,680
with zone zero. We have no update when

864
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,119
the state's going to pick that topic

865
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:46,960
back up.

866
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,160
And but potentially if the state were to

867
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,079
require it, that would mean changes

868
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:54,000
locally as well.

869
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:54,950
>> Potentially.

870
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:54,960
» Potentially.

871
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,470
>> Potentially. Yes. And

872
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:56,480
» Potentially. Yes. And

873
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,910
>> I'm saying this because our residents

874
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:57,920
» I'm saying this because our residents

875
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,720
may be looking to landscape and in when

876
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:02,880
folks are doing that, you know, I would

877
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,960
hate for someone to landscape keeping in

878
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,920
mind a two twoft barrier and then, you

879
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,839
know, six months or a year later have to

880
00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:12,079
rellandscape. So it's something I I

881
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:13,680
assume we should be thinking about.

882
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,750
>> Yes, ma'am.

883
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,119
Uh, were there any other comments or

884
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:21,760
questions? With that, I would and thank

885
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,280
you very much for taking the time to be

886
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,720
here tonight, Chief. Thank you.

887
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:29,829
>> Um, do we have a motion to adopt F2?

888
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:29,839
» Um, do we have a motion to adopt F2?

889
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:31,910
>> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, do we have any public

890
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:31,920
» Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, do we have any public

891
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,560
comment on F2?

892
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,230
>> Seeing none, do we have a motion to

893
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:36,240
» Seeing none, do we have a motion to

894
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:38,400
adopt F2?

895
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,030
>> I'll move adoption of item F2.

896
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:41,040
» I'll move adoption of item F2.

897
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,150
>> Do I have a second?

898
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:44,160
» Do I have a second?

899
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,760
Council member Hawky, we're cold calling

900
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:46,720
you. Would you like to

901
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:47,910
>> second? Yes, absolutely.

902
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:47,920
» second? Yes, absolutely.

903
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,870
>> Make sure you're keeping your mute on.

904
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:50,880
» Make sure you're keeping your mute on.

905
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,480
Great. Roll call vote, please. City

906
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,560
clerk. Council member McConn.

907
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,520
Hawky

908
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:58,390
>> I.

909
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:58,400
» I.

910
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,109
>> Gee,

911
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:59,119
» Gee,

912
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,470
>> I and I. Thank you. And with that, uh,

913
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:02,480
» I and I. Thank you. And with that, uh,

914
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,560
the consent calendar is now fully passed

915
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,160
and we will move on to policy matters.

916
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,440
Item H1 is our city of Arinda 2026

917
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,200
legislative platform. And I'll ask the

918
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,359
city manager if this is her category.

919
00:45:15,359 --> 00:45:17,190
>> Yes. Um um honorable mayor, members of

920
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:17,200
» Yes. Um um honorable mayor, members of

921
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,880
the council, this one from a staff

922
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,880
perspective would be very quick. Last

923
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,119
year, the council adopted its first

924
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:25,920
legislative platform. Uh it's time for

925
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,319
updating uh that platform for the new

926
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:30,480
year. Uh the city worked with its

927
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,040
consultant towns uh public affairs to

928
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,400
put together an updated uh framework

929
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,200
that's pretty or platform rather. It is

930
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,440
very similar to last year's platform

931
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,440
with a few redline changes that we're

932
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,760
showing as an attachment to your staff

933
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,920
report. But to summarize some of the

934
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,560
areas where we were trying to refine uh

935
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,000
some of our support and opposition

936
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,560
positions, the first being supporting

937
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,400
limits on the application of builder's

938
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,400
remedy once a housing element has been

939
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,920
certified.

940
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,920
Supporting tools to address long-term

941
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,319
vacant commercial properties.

942
00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:06,480
promoting pedestrian and ebike safety,

943
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,319
including helmet and age appropriate

944
00:46:08,319 --> 00:46:10,800
operation requirements and supporting

945
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,640
clarification of local authority to

946
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,119
assess service related fees for street

947
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:17,359
maintenance and supporting the

948
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:19,359
sustainability enhancement of BART

949
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:21,520
service at the Arinda station and

950
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,200
opposing any service reductions,

951
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,119
changes, or funding reallocations that

952
00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:27,119
would adversely affect the current level

953
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:29,839
of service at that station. So, with

954
00:46:29,839 --> 00:46:31,680
that, I will turn it back over to the

955
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,520
city council. See if you have any

956
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,200
questions for me. I believe that Casey,

957
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,880
our representative from Townsen Public

958
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,640
Affairs is joining us via Zoom. If you

959
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,800
have any questions for Casey, I'll note

960
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,520
that the legislative session has uh the

961
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,760
bill introduction period has concluded.

962
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,240
Uh Casey and the Townsen team and the

963
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:53,119
city staff will be working to go through

964
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:55,119
uh the pieces of legislation that have

965
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:57,200
been proposed and determine the city's

966
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:58,880
position based on

967
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,200
the council's adoption of this updated

968
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,440
legislative platform.

969
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,960
And with that, I'll turn it back over to

970
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,109
the council for any questions.

971
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:10,960
» Does anyone have any uh questions or

972
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,720
comments that Well, actually, let's do

973
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,040
questions, then we'll do public comment.

974
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,550
Yes, please.

975
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,839
Um my question is um thi this is

976
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:24,880
Arinda's legislative platform but I want

977
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,880
I'm assuming that it it mirrors to some

978
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,359
extent the

979
00:47:31,359 --> 00:47:35,359
um the lawinda effort of working

980
00:47:35,359 --> 00:47:36,079
together.

981
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:38,550
>> Yes. So earlier uh I believe right

982
00:47:38,550 --> 00:47:38,560
» Yes. So earlier uh I believe right

983
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:39,680
before the beginning of the year we

984
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,920
brought you a a lawinda framework that

985
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,800
the council took a look at. It's more

986
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,359
narrow than what we're proposing for the

987
00:47:47,359 --> 00:47:50,400
citywide platform uh and reflects the

988
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,640
cooperation and and the mutual um areas

989
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,440
for the three cities town and city of

990
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,640
Lafayette and town of Maraga. And um so

991
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,960
that that effort is underway just

992
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,119
getting kicked off because Moraga took

993
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:07,440
their framework back to the council at

994
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:08,960
the end of January. So, we're just

995
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,160
kicking off the regional um efforts with

996
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,640
KC at Towns and Public Affairs as well.

997
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,520
Um there's no conflicts between the two

998
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,599
lists uh from what's on the platform and

999
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:21,040
what's on the framework, but certainly

1000
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,480
this is more exhaustive than what's on

1001
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:23,760
the framework. The framework really

1002
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,359
tries to hone in on sort of core

1003
00:48:25,359 --> 00:48:27,920
regional issues. transportation, housing

1004
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,680
are the ones I can come off the top of

1005
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,559
my head, but um just in case the

1006
00:48:32,559 --> 00:48:35,200
community was curious, there's there

1007
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,680
might be certain overlap, but there's no

1008
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,000
nothing that's conflicting between the

1009
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,470
two platforms.

1010
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,480
This is maybe a little bit more of a

1011
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,319
comment but sort of a followup to the

1012
00:48:48,319 --> 00:48:50,720
question and that is given the timing

1013
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,720
and I know that when we had the the

1014
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,119
Lamarinda framework it hadn't really

1015
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:58,559
happened yet but I I think it it would

1016
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:03,680
be good um in my opinion if if the

1017
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,040
Lamarinda framework would also um

1018
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,599
support the BART um part of what's in

1019
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:13,599
the platform.

1020
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:14,960
I'll have to take a look and see if

1021
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,200
there's broad enough language in there.

1022
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,960
The thought of trying to recirculate

1023
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,119
this to three elected bodies for

1024
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:23,280
readoption, it doesn't

1025
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:24,150
>> Yeah, I I'm

1026
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:24,160
» Yeah, I I'm

1027
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,430
>> something I would be looking forward to,

1028
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:25,440
» something I would be looking forward to,

1029
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,280
but let me see if there's a way to

1030
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,200
incorporate it under the current

1031
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:29,839
framework.

1032
00:49:29,839 --> 00:49:32,470
>> It would certainly be nice to um have

1033
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:32,480
» It would certainly be nice to um have

1034
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,800
our combined support. I'm sure I know

1035
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,400
from talking to um everyone that we do,

1036
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,040
but it would be nice to make it um you

1037
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,520
know codified. So,

1038
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,950
>> okay. Are there any other questions?

1039
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:46,960
» okay. Are there any other questions?

1040
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,430
>> Yes, please.

1041
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:49,440
» Yes, please.

1042
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,750
>> Uh let's go. Uh Council Member Hawky and

1043
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:51,760
» Uh let's go. Uh Council Member Hawky and

1044
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,319
then uh Mel County, please.

1045
00:49:54,319 --> 00:49:56,630
>> I'm wondering if you could tell us more

1046
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:56,640
» I'm wondering if you could tell us more

1047
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,319
about any legislation that's been

1048
00:49:58,319 --> 00:50:02,559
introduced on the vacancy uh issue.

1049
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:04,480
I'm sorry, I didn't hear the on what

1050
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:04,800
issue.

1051
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,670
>> If any legislation is uh being

1052
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:07,680
» If any legislation is uh being

1053
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,760
introduced or considered about vacancies

1054
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,440
and what what can be done about vacant

1055
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:12,240
storefronts?

1056
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:14,309
>> I don't I'd have to ask Casey. We

1057
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:14,319
» I don't I'd have to ask Casey. We

1058
00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:16,400
haven't done our deep dive yet on the

1059
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,800
bills that were introduced in the LA by

1060
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,079
February 20th. So, um I don't know Casey

1061
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:24,720
if you can think of any bills that have

1062
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,920
addressed long-term vacancies.

1063
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,750
>> Yeah. Uh Casey Elliott with Towns and

1064
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:29,760
» Yeah. Uh Casey Elliott with Towns and

1065
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,359
Public Affairs. um based on the bills

1066
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:35,839
that were introduced as of last of as of

1067
00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:38,000
the 20th. I'm not aware of any that

1068
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,760
directly speak to the vacancy rate. I I

1069
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,640
would have to double check though. Um

1070
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,960
just to confirm. Additionally, there are

1071
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,040
about 600 spot bills. So, um probably in

1072
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,119
the next 2 to 3 weeks, we'll have a

1073
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:54,960
little bit better of an idea of all of

1074
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,280
the those policy proposals as they get

1075
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,440
fleshed out. But uh I'm happy to take a

1076
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:00,880
look at that and and get the information

1077
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,960
to you through staff.

1078
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,710
>> Thank you.

1079
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:04,720
» Thank you.

1080
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:06,470
>> Thank you. And council member Malcani,

1081
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:06,480
» Thank you. And council member Malcani,

1082
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:07,760
actually council member Hawky, did you

1083
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:08,880
have any other questions?

1084
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,309
>> No, thank you. Not this.

1085
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:10,319
» No, thank you. Not this.

1086
00:51:10,319 --> 00:51:12,870
>> Council member Malcani. Yeah, there were

1087
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:12,880
» Council member Malcani. Yeah, there were

1088
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,800
I was just hoping that Casey or someone

1089
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,599
could speak to why there were some items

1090
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:20,079
that were removed

1091
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:22,640
and whether that was to be consistent

1092
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,800
with sort of and I was sort of wondering

1093
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,079
is that in terms of the changes which

1094
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,880
ones are consistent generally with sort

1095
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,200
of Cal City's platform or was it a

1096
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,319
regional effort? um or you know

1097
00:51:38,319 --> 00:51:40,480
sometimes I see I see some things are

1098
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,760
sort of to keep up with existing

1099
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,480
uh bills in law.

1100
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,950
>> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy to take a a stab

1101
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:48,960
» Yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy to take a a stab

1102
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,040
at that. Council member, um several of

1103
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,079
the items that um are are stricken, for

1104
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:55,760
example, in the parks and community

1105
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,400
services section, those were actually

1106
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,960
repurposed and put into the public works

1107
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,640
section and and just some areas that

1108
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,400
felt maybe a little bit more appropriate

1109
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,640
for the specific items. um some of the

1110
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,960
the um SP 1383 items um just got shifted

1111
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,520
around. So So that was kind of more of a

1112
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,400
a formatting cleanup than um than than

1113
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,800
the substantive change. Um there were a

1114
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,200
couple of additional changes um where

1115
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,559
the platform uh spoke to maybe more of a

1116
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:27,359
federal or a state local or excuse me a

1117
00:52:27,359 --> 00:52:29,920
state impact and not as much impacts on

1118
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,160
on the on the city. So those are some of

1119
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,040
the more uh kind of um surgical red

1120
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,559
lines if [clears throat] you will where

1121
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:38,720
it it those are more kind of some of the

1122
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:42,079
language modifications. Um so I think

1123
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:46,319
that covers the bulk of the strikeouts.

1124
00:52:46,319 --> 00:52:50,800
I don't think that there was um anything

1125
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,880
that was pulled out because legislation

1126
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,200
addressed it. Um I think it's more just

1127
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,640
all kind of formatting and structural.

1128
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,549
>> Okay. And then what about there was it

1129
00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:02,559
» Okay. And then what about there was it

1130
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:05,280
was removal of language

1131
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,160
in the community and economic

1132
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,319
development section. Maybe it was put

1133
00:53:10,319 --> 00:53:12,240
elsewhere and I I failed to recognize

1134
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:15,760
that. But um item 11, it aims to achieve

1135
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,520
fair and proportionate representation on

1136
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,520
countywide and regional boards. Was that

1137
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,119
a legal update or no? No,

1138
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:28,630
>> I'm trying to find it.

1139
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,480
I'm looking at a strikeout on on I think

1140
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,589
it's

1141
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:44,950
H1 packet page 132. 132.

1142
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,359
My recollection is is that was one that

1143
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:51,040
kind of felt fell into the category of

1144
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,839
not necessarily being as city specific,

1145
00:53:53,839 --> 00:53:56,400
but to the to that more more regional

1146
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,720
and countywide, I I don't believe there

1147
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,520
was a specific

1148
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,160
conversation about about broader than

1149
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,240
that of of that necessitated the removal

1150
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:12,069
of that item.

1151
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:15,760
» Yeah. I don't I don't recall why we took

1152
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,960
that out other than we didn't

1153
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,069
um

1154
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:24,880
we weren't sort of monitoring the I

1155
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,400
guess the states

1156
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,990
>> countywide and regional. So it would be

1157
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:28,000
» countywide and regional. So it would be

1158
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,190
>> regional and countywide boards process.

1159
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:31,200
» regional and countywide boards process.

1160
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:32,880
So I guess I just want to confirm that

1161
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,440
by taking it out the the understanding

1162
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,400
there is is more that it's it's

1163
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,680
something that extends to a jurisdiction

1164
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,480
beyond Arinda as opposed to a com we're

1165
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,160
not saying that we're not committed to

1166
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,520
fair um representation on countywide and

1167
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,119
regional boards because that was I think

1168
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:52,559
is something that's very important but

1169
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:53,760
it would be something that would be

1170
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:54,960
addressed through for example the

1171
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,160
Contraosta mayor's conference or um you

1172
00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:59,920
know but but we do make our own

1173
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,680
appointments and so for that reason. I

1174
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,520
guess I would like to leave it in. But

1175
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,630
okay,

1176
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,880
but I don't have, you know, I could be

1177
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,440
persuaded, but I I could be persuaded as

1178
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,760
long as we are recognizing that it is a

1179
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:15,119
priority. I don't know that it needs to

1180
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:17,200
be in the legislative platform, but I do

1181
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,920
think it should be a priority.

1182
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,230
>> Um, we're still doing questions, so not

1183
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:22,240
» Um, we're still doing questions, so not

1184
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:23,920
going to comment on that yet. Um, are

1185
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,200
there any other questions? Um, uh, I had

1186
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,640
one, um, for Casey there. There was some

1187
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,880
advocacy letters that we got recently

1188
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,000
and I I didn't really do much to forward

1189
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,720
them but about uh landslides being

1190
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:42,240
included in uh disaster relief. Uh that

1191
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:44,000
that would be a category that could be

1192
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,520
covered in some cities in Southern

1193
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,480
California were trying to maybe get um a

1194
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,880
coalition of cities who were similarly

1195
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,200
uh potentially affected. Is that

1196
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,119
something that is somewhere in this

1197
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:57,440
platform or should we consider adding

1198
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:02,390
that?

1199
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,119
» Um

1200
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:08,559
there are there is a broad category

1201
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:11,599
under public health and safety. Um it's

1202
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:14,240
it's under funding opportunities but

1203
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,280
relates to disaster large scale disaster

1204
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,480
preparedness initiatives. Um, but I

1205
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:21,680
don't believe there's anything in here

1206
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,440
that gets quite down to the level of

1207
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,040
specificity related to um, landslides

1208
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,680
other than kind of broadly being in in

1209
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,680
disaster preparedness measures.

1210
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,349
>> Okay. Um, with that, um, I think we'll

1211
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:37,359
» Okay. Um, with that, um, I think we'll

1212
00:56:37,359 --> 00:56:38,880
go to public comment and then we'll

1213
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,119
bring it up for discussion.

1214
00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:43,200
Looks like we have, um, at least one

1215
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,559
public comment. I don't have any written

1216
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:46,880
speaker cards.

1217
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,359
I did not have time to fill out a

1218
00:56:49,359 --> 00:56:51,440
speaker card because I was late getting

1219
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,920
here from my oldest granddaughter's

1220
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,920
softball practice. Sorry. I'll notify

1221
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:03,829
the clerk of my contact information.

1222
00:57:03,839 --> 00:57:06,160
My public comment is that I would

1223
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,400
request that tonight somebody give us an

1224
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,240
overview

1225
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:15,440
of the process of

1226
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:21,040
how Towns and works for the city

1227
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,240
and particularly [clears throat] in

1228
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,160
terms of the communication. So for

1229
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,480
example, Madame Mayor, you mentioned you

1230
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,559
received some position letters. I'm just

1231
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:33,520
wondering if those are if if there's any

1232
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,359
public notice process or if that's to

1233
00:57:37,359 --> 00:57:40,000
whatever if if they're publicly

1234
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,000
available.

1235
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,319
Uh if there's some place on the city

1236
00:57:44,319 --> 00:57:48,960
website where somebody can uh see what's

1237
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,880
going on, someone who wants to keep up

1238
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,760
with legislation. So for example, if

1239
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,040
towns and note alerts the city that

1240
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,839
Scott Weiner has introduced some new

1241
00:57:59,839 --> 00:58:04,319
bill to deincorporate Arinda,

1242
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:09,119
would Town Townsen notify the city and

1243
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:12,079
would that be a matter that someone

1244
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:15,359
could just sign up for an alert like we

1245
00:58:15,359 --> 00:58:18,400
get alerts for meetings or do we have to

1246
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,760
do a weekly public records act request

1247
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,280
to see what's come in over the transom.

1248
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,280
I would just like and I think other

1249
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,240
people might be interested in how the

1250
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,079
process

1251
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:34,240
works. Do they draft the position

1252
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,160
letters and send them to you for

1253
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,880
signature? Is there collaboration?

1254
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,400
Uh how does the whole thing work? That

1255
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,200
is my request, my public comment is that

1256
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,079
someone give us a threeinut speech on

1257
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:50,880
how it works and what's available and

1258
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,870
where. Thank you.

1259
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,400
» First, I'll ask if there is any other

1260
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,040
public comment on this item.

1261
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:00,400
With that, we'll close the public

1262
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,160
portion of this and bring it back for

1263
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,599
discussion. I'd ask if the city manager

1264
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:04,799
would like to address anything that's

1265
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:05,760
been brought up so far.

1266
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,549
>> Um, first I'll start with Vice Mayor G's

1267
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:08,559
» Um, first I'll start with Vice Mayor G's

1268
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:11,359
question about the framework. Uh, the

1269
00:59:11,359 --> 00:59:13,760
current lawinda framework as it relates

1270
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,760
to transportation and related

1271
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,480
infrastructure talks about two things.

1272
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,880
one it says the coalition looks to

1273
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,880
encourage and support federal and state

1274
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,119
actions that invest in local public

1275
00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:27,520
infrastructure projects with regional

1276
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,440
benefits. Uh it also goes on to note

1277
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,799
that uh the framework would ex uh

1278
00:59:34,799 --> 00:59:37,280
support expanding local transit

1279
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,839
microtransit bus services and emerging

1280
00:59:39,839 --> 00:59:41,440
transit opportunities. So I think under

1281
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,920
that heading in that context that would

1282
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,280
be enough for the region to talk with

1283
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,200
one voice on the matter related to BART.

1284
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,520
Uh if the council is interested in me

1285
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,400
doing what the public speaker asked

1286
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,920
which is just a summary of how um we

1287
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,760
work with towns and I'm happy to do that

1288
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:02,319
as well.

1289
01:00:02,319 --> 01:00:03,510
>> I think that would be for the public

1290
01:00:03,510 --> 01:00:03,520
» I think that would be for the public

1291
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:04,720
benefit if you wouldn't mind just

1292
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,040
quickly addressing um how this all

1293
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:07,520
works.

1294
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,870
>> Sure. So, the towns and public affairs

1295
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:10,880
» Sure. So, the towns and public affairs

1296
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,040
team, Casey in particular, and I meet

1297
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,960
every other week uh via uh teams um

1298
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,599
online meeting uh where we talk about a

1299
01:00:19,599 --> 01:00:21,599
variety of topics including bill

1300
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:23,680
introduction, timing, we talk about the

1301
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,440
appropriations process. Uh we talk about

1302
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,119
uh support and oppose matters uh when

1303
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:33,839
legislation is in front of us. Uh we

1304
01:00:33,839 --> 01:00:36,880
discuss the regional group. and we

1305
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,079
discuss um

1306
01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:41,599
trying to think what else we discuss.

1307
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:43,599
Those are the kind of the core pieces of

1308
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:46,240
advocacy visits to Sacramento. Uh that's

1309
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,559
also on the list and in fact uh there

1310
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:52,480
will be the city summit in April and we

1311
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,200
would be up in Sacramento and we're

1312
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,160
looking to plan an advocacy day up there

1313
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,319
as well. Uh the letters are largely

1314
01:01:02,319 --> 01:01:04,400
crafted from towns and any support and

1315
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,160
opposition letters sent over to city

1316
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,559
staff for review. Staff reviews the

1317
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:10,400
letters and then we send them to the

1318
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,440
mayor for consideration of signature. Uh

1319
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,200
if I'm unable to get a hold of the mayor

1320
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,680
in a timely fashion uh that I'm

1321
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,920
authorized under the framework to or

1322
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,760
under the platform to sign those letters

1323
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,440
myself. So in some cases that at least

1324
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,200
one case that's happened. Um and then we

1325
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,440
submit those to Casey. Casey submits

1326
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,680
those to the portal and the state for

1327
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,680
the various committees that are

1328
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,720
reviewing bills uh so that our positions

1329
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,680
are on record.

1330
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,079
That'll do my summary. Thank you. And

1331
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:46,079
with that, I'll ask if there um if

1332
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:47,440
anybody on the council would like to

1333
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,349
lead off with their comments.

1334
01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:53,599
We will cold call the remote person if

1335
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:56,240
uh if one's jumping in. [clears throat]

1336
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,119
That's fine. Um I I think it's a good

1337
01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:02,799
platform. I like um particularly the

1338
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:06,000
BART uh bullet point and the vacancies

1339
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,480
bullet point. I think we have discussed

1340
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,440
the ebike issues and I'm glad to see

1341
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,040
that that is going to be addressed at

1342
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,280
the state level because it seems

1343
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,440
difficult for us to address it at a city

1344
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,280
level without some state changes in

1345
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,480
legislation. Um so I think this is a

1346
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:23,839
good platform for this year. I'm in

1347
01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:26,079
favor of it.

1348
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:28,319
Thank you. Uh, Council Member Malcani, I

1349
01:02:28,319 --> 01:02:29,359
think you were

1350
01:02:29,359 --> 01:02:31,270
>> Yeah, I mean, I did think there were a

1351
01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:31,280
» Yeah, I mean, I did think there were a

1352
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,520
couple provisions where it went into a

1353
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,640
specificity that I you don't usually see

1354
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,599
on a platform like when we already talk

1355
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:42,480
about ebike safety. Of course, safety to

1356
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,280
me means helmets and safety equipment,

1357
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,920
but to specifically mention it in the

1358
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:52,000
platform seemed um unusual. I guess I

1359
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,839
maybe it's more of a question for you

1360
01:02:53,839 --> 01:02:55,680
know for Casey from Townsend. Is that

1361
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:56,960
something that we typically see in

1362
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,200
platforms? Is that to be consistent with

1363
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,520
sort of Cal? So, some of the changes

1364
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,079
surprised me and again I I don't really

1365
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:08,799
see the reason to I mean I I was I guess

1366
01:03:08,799 --> 01:03:11,520
you know for the community and economic

1367
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,680
development former item 11 we had I mean

1368
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,680
again this is like you know parsing out

1369
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,960
the details now but um we were given a

1370
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,480
red line so um

1371
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:30,480
item 11 was removed and it previously ly

1372
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,520
said that it was part that, you know,

1373
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,559
staff recommends that city support state

1374
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:38,720
or federal legislation

1375
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,280
that aims to achieve fair and

1376
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:42,640
proportionate representation on

1377
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,240
countywide and regional boards. And I

1378
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:45,520
would think we would want to continue

1379
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:46,880
supporting that. So, I would want to

1380
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,440
leave it in. So, that's the only thing I

1381
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,599
like the two items that sort of stood

1382
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:53,599
out to me. I also thought the BART the

1383
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:55,119
BART thing is really important to our

1384
01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:56,559
region. So, I'm fine with including it,

1385
01:03:56,559 --> 01:03:58,720
but it also seemed, you know, it's very

1386
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,960
it's very specific and I think the prior

1387
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,680
platform included it. So, I guess the

1388
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,680
level of specificity

1389
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,920
I I just

1390
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,160
um

1391
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,559
thought is atypical of what I've seen in

1392
01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:14,720
alleged platform before, but I'm not

1393
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:16,640
opposed to what it says specifically, so

1394
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,960
I don't have a a problem with what's

1395
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,200
stated.

1396
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,039
Vice Mayor Chief.

1397
01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:25,829
>> No, I I'm I'm fine with it. I mean, I

1398
01:04:25,829 --> 01:04:25,839
» No, I I'm I'm fine with it. I mean, I

1399
01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:27,760
think overall for what it is and what

1400
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,839
it's intended to be in terms of our

1401
01:04:29,839 --> 01:04:32,480
priorities, I'm I'm supportive. I think

1402
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:34,720
it captures a lot of the, as Council

1403
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:36,559
Member Hawky said, I think it captures a

1404
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,440
lot of the key items that have been, you

1405
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,760
know, raised lately and fall into this

1406
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,640
arena. So, I'm supportive.

1407
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,549
>> Thank you. Um, I have a few notes. Um, I

1408
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:48,559
» Thank you. Um, I have a few notes. Um, I

1409
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:51,680
had a million questions and red lines on

1410
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,160
this when I first read it and the city

1411
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,359
manager explained uh to me and it it

1412
01:04:57,359 --> 01:04:58,559
really helped me understand that, you

1413
01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:00,319
know, because I felt like our priorities

1414
01:05:00,319 --> 01:05:03,280
were getting subsumed in all of this

1415
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,039
laundry list of any issue that might

1416
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:06,319
come up. And and the way the city

1417
01:05:06,319 --> 01:05:09,039
manager explained it is by having this

1418
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:11,280
list, anything that comes in asking for

1419
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,599
us to just give our support at the state

1420
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:16,640
or county level, they know that they can

1421
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:18,240
write a letter of support because it's

1422
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:22,079
in this laundry list. So, you know, in

1423
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:25,839
the the frequent meetings and and

1424
01:05:25,839 --> 01:05:28,000
check-ins between towns and and the city

1425
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,599
manager and um and other groups that

1426
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:33,119
represent us, they know the priorities.

1427
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:35,359
They know the top three. And so the fact

1428
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:37,039
that this is kind of the whole kitchen

1429
01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:39,599
sink, it is not getting lost about where

1430
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:41,359
our focus and priorities are. And it was

1431
01:05:41,359 --> 01:05:43,520
just that if we don't include something,

1432
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,200
it might have to come to us um to ask

1433
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,240
what our position is. So that helped me

1434
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,315
relax. And in the spirit of I think Vice

1435
01:05:52,315 --> 01:05:53,280
[clears throat] Mayor G's comment of

1436
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,079
like this is good. I don't want to go

1437
01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:57,760
messing with the red line because if you

1438
01:05:57,760 --> 01:05:59,280
open up that red line, I'm going to have

1439
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,079
a lot more things that are not ainda

1440
01:06:02,079 --> 01:06:04,240
issues. there's state issues and there's

1441
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,880
all the specificity on things that are,

1442
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:08,480
you know, representative of ours that

1443
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,559
are their agendas and we support them

1444
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:13,119
because we support them. But I I really

1445
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:14,880
don't want to start getting the red pen

1446
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,559
out. Um the other comment I would make

1447
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:17,680
though is I don't want this to be like

1448
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,160
the tax code where we only add and we

1449
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:21,920
never subtract. And so I don't want to

1450
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:25,200
be afraid of something maybe was a

1451
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:26,960
specific issue last year or the year

1452
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,640
before. It was maybe some legislation in

1453
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:34,079
progress that got done. Um, so I I am

1454
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:36,960
inclined to trust the recommendations

1455
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:38,640
that came from towns and the city

1456
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,319
manager on what is added and subtracted.

1457
01:06:42,319 --> 01:06:44,079
Um, that's just my inclination as we

1458
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:45,920
look at this.

1459
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:47,520
Um, and I would just mention that the

1460
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:51,359
landside uh re as disaster relief um

1461
01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:55,680
might be something um to look at uh to

1462
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:56,880
talk to our friends in Southern

1463
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:58,400
California because I remember when we

1464
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,039
had a landslide issue here, the disaster

1465
01:07:01,039 --> 01:07:05,280
relief uh was not available um at least

1466
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,520
without some uh insurance stuff. So,

1467
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,280
that's just something that it's not a

1468
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,400
live issue, but maybe a longer term one.

1469
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,640
Um were there any other questions or

1470
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,720
comments? Uh, and if not, do we have a

1471
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:17,599
motion?

1472
01:07:17,599 --> 01:07:19,670
>> I guess I just if I don't know if if

1473
01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:19,680
» I guess I just if I don't know if if

1474
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,799
that one item did Casey, do you have any

1475
01:07:22,799 --> 01:07:28,789
insights on why we're taking that out?

1476
01:07:28,799 --> 01:07:32,079
» So, yeah, that

1477
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:33,589
>> not beyond kind of the regional nature

1478
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:33,599
» not beyond kind of the regional nature

1479
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:34,640
of the of the measure. I don't think

1480
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,079
there was a specific

1481
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:38,230
>> That's fine.

1482
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:38,240
» That's fine.

1483
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,390
>> We we have a long agenda with [laughter]

1484
01:07:40,390 --> 01:07:40,400
» We we have a long agenda with [laughter]

1485
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,039
it. If there is a if there I let me just

1486
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:44,720
ask this because this is the time to

1487
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:46,480
talk about it since it's before us. If

1488
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:48,240
there is any state or federalation

1489
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,280
federal legislation pending that deals

1490
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,480
with the issue of having fair uh

1491
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,000
representation on on you know regional

1492
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,160
boards. Can you make sure that uh the

1493
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,160
city of made aware of it so we have an

1494
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:03,839
opportunity to chime in as to whether or

1495
01:08:03,839 --> 01:08:05,359
not we'd support it because I don't want

1496
01:08:05,359 --> 01:08:07,599
it to not be on our radar because we're

1497
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:10,799
deleting it from our platform.

1498
01:08:10,799 --> 01:08:14,400
That's all. But with that, I would move

1499
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,719
to adopt the if there's unless there's

1500
01:08:16,719 --> 01:08:18,640
more discussion. I don't think there is.

1501
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:20,640
So, uh, I think we have a motion. Do we

1502
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:21,759
have a second?

1503
01:08:21,759 --> 01:08:23,269
>> I'll second.

1504
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:23,279
» I'll second.

1505
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:24,470
>> Great. Uh, may we [clears throat] have a

1506
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:24,480
» Great. Uh, may we [clears throat] have a

1507
01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:27,920
roll call vote, please? Congi.

1508
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:28,950
>> Oxy.

1509
01:08:28,950 --> 01:08:28,960
» Oxy.

1510
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:29,669
>> I.

1511
01:08:29,669 --> 01:08:29,679
» I.

1512
01:08:29,679 --> 01:08:30,309
>> G.

1513
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:30,319
» G.

1514
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:30,630
>> I.

1515
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:30,640
» I.

1516
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:31,590
>> And Iverson.

1517
01:08:31,590 --> 01:08:31,600
» And Iverson.

1518
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:32,229
>> I. Thank you.

1519
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:32,239
» I. Thank you.

1520
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:35,430
>> Motion passes unanimously and we go to

1521
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:35,440
» Motion passes unanimously and we go to

1522
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:37,679
item and uh, thank you Casey for joining

1523
01:08:37,679 --> 01:08:40,159
us tonight. Uh we'll go to item H2, the

1524
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:42,000
infrastructure committee report on

1525
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:43,920
activities including the framework for

1526
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,880
acceptance of private roads. Um I am not

1527
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:48,319
sure who is presenting this. Is the

1528
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:49,520
subcommittee going to present or the

1529
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:50,080
city manager?

1530
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,590
>> So I'll kick us off and then I'll turn

1531
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:51,600
» So I'll kick us off and then I'll turn

1532
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,359
it back over to the infrastructure

1533
01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:57,120
subcommittee. So

1534
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:01,189
>> So before uh we get started um council

1535
01:09:01,189 --> 01:09:01,199
» So before uh we get started um council

1536
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:04,400
member Hawky wants to make a statement.

1537
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:06,950
>> Thank you. I wanted to take a moment to

1538
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:06,960
» Thank you. I wanted to take a moment to

1539
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,040
note for the record that the home my

1540
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:10,960
husband and I own in Arinda is located

1541
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,520
on a privately maintained road. That

1542
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:15,520
road is a culde-sac serving

1543
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,080
approximately seven homes. We are not

1544
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,120
part of an HOA. Historically, we and our

1545
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,440
neighbors have cooperated as needed to

1546
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:25,199
arrange and fund maintenance of our

1547
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:27,839
road. Our road was not offered for

1548
01:09:27,839 --> 01:09:29,839
dedication to the public when it was

1549
01:09:29,839 --> 01:09:31,920
created by subdivision map and was never

1550
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,319
accepted for maintenance by the city or

1551
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:36,960
county. Because the city's policy

1552
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:38,719
regarding privately maintained roads

1553
01:09:38,719 --> 01:09:41,279
could ultimately impact my property, I

1554
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,279
considered carefully whether I should

1555
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:45,759
participate in this discussion. I

1556
01:09:45,759 --> 01:09:48,000
learned that the FPPC has something

1557
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,159
called the public generally rule,

1558
01:09:50,159 --> 01:09:53,040
regulation 18703,

1559
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:54,880
that allows officials like me to take

1560
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:56,960
part in a governmental decision that

1561
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,040
affects their financial interest,

1562
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:00,480
provided that the effect on the

1563
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:02,880
officials interest is indistinguishable

1564
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,520
from the effect on the public generally.

1565
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,920
This standard is met if a significant

1566
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,159
segment of the public is affected and

1567
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:11,920
the effect on the official is not

1568
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,800
unique. where as in my situation the

1569
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,040
financial issue interest at issue as a

1570
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,600
primary residence the phrase significant

1571
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,320
segment of the public means at least 15%

1572
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,159
of residential property within the

1573
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:25,679
jurisdiction

1574
01:10:25,679 --> 01:10:27,920
I worked with city staff to evaluate my

1575
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:30,400
parcel's private road situation and

1576
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:33,760
found it is relatively common in Arinda

1577
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,480
for example approximately 22% of

1578
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:38,800
Arinda's residential properties are on

1579
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:40,719
privately maintained roads of various

1580
01:10:40,719 --> 01:10:44,400
types approximately ly 19% of Arinda's

1581
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,800
residential properties are like mine on

1582
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,360
privately maintained roads that were not

1583
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,040
dedicated for public use on a

1584
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:55,280
subdivision map and approximately 20% of

1585
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,080
Arinda's residential properties are like

1586
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:00,480
mine on privately maintained culde-sac

1587
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:03,440
roads not through roads considering

1588
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:06,000
those characteristics of my property I

1589
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,640
believe it satisfies the 15% threshold

1590
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,560
for applicability for the FPVPC's public

1591
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,880
generally rule. So, I've concluded that

1592
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,040
I may generally participate in the

1593
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,440
council's policy discussions regarding

1594
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:22,560
private roads. I plan to do so while

1595
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,120
staying alert to potential conflicts of

1596
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,120
interest that might arise depending on

1597
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,840
how the council's discussion proceeds.

1598
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,400
For example, at this point, I do not

1599
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,880
know whether my neighbors and I would

1600
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,640
ever request that the city accept our

1601
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:38,560
street into the its publicly maintained

1602
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,960
system, but if such a specific request

1603
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,199
were to come before the city while I am

1604
01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:46,080
on the council, I would recuse myself.

1605
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,560
Similarly, I would recuse myself if the

1606
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:50,800
council discusses whether the city's

1607
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,199
policy should differentiate between

1608
01:11:53,199 --> 01:11:55,440
privately maintained roads based on

1609
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:57,920
whether they are serviced by an HOA or

1610
01:11:57,920 --> 01:11:59,840
homeowners association or other similar

1611
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,440
entity. As I noted, my property is on a

1612
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:05,360
privately maintained road not serviced

1613
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,560
by an HOA. City staff have calculated

1614
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,679
that approximately 13% of residential

1615
01:12:11,679 --> 01:12:13,920
properties in Arinda share that in

1616
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:16,480
common with mine which is below the

1617
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:19,679
FPPPC's 15% threshold for the public

1618
01:12:19,679 --> 01:12:22,640
generally rule which raises a problem

1619
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,120
for tonight's conversation because of

1620
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:28,400
bullet point two in the staff report

1621
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,679
which differentiates those roads on an

1622
01:12:31,679 --> 01:12:33,600
that are maintained by an HOA and those

1623
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,000
that are not. So, what I'd like to do,

1624
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,239
mayor, if it's all right with you, is

1625
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:40,080
recuse myself at the beginning of the

1626
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:42,719
conversation while you discuss that

1627
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:45,760
particular point regarding HOA

1628
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,000
maintained roads versus all of the

1629
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,239
privately maintained roads, and I'll

1630
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:53,440
wait for a city manager or city attorney

1631
01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:55,840
to text me and tell me I can rejoin the

1632
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,600
conversation. Does that sound

1633
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,760
reasonable?

1634
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,550
>> Maybe. Um, I know this is the

1635
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:02,560
» Maybe. Um, I know this is the

1636
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,880
recommendation of the city attorney, but

1637
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,400
I am not aware at this point uh of

1638
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:09,679
whether there will be a general

1639
01:13:09,679 --> 01:13:13,920
presentation and be because there are

1640
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,000
we're it's not just like we're voting on

1641
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,000
A and then we're voting on B as we did

1642
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,400
with the um some of the housing element

1643
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,920
stuff. Um it's not as distinct in my

1644
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,120
mind the HOA question among all of the

1645
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,080
other questions. I would like to know if

1646
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,120
there is anformational part that council

1647
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,960
member Hawky could listen to before we

1648
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,400
sever um this forum for discussion

1649
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,280
purposes. So the answer is yes. Uh

1650
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:45,280
Council Member Hawky can hear the staff

1651
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,239
report. She can hear questions about

1652
01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:49,600
that staff report. Although I'd

1653
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,280
recommend you not ask questions about

1654
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,920
the HOA issue. You can hear public

1655
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,000
comment. And then when it comes to

1656
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,679
deliberation, I think that's where the

1657
01:13:57,679 --> 01:14:00,239
council should determine basically

1658
01:14:00,239 --> 01:14:02,400
whether the segmentation approach that

1659
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:04,159
we sometimes take, whether it can be

1660
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:06,080
applied in this situation.

1661
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:07,510
>> That's really helpful and that would be

1662
01:14:07,510 --> 01:14:07,520
» That's really helpful and that would be

1663
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:08,880
my preference if that's all right with

1664
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,239
you, Council Member Hawky.

1665
01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:11,669
>> Yes, that's fine. I'd like to

1666
01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:11,679
» Yes, that's fine. I'd like to

1667
01:14:11,679 --> 01:14:14,800
participate as much as I can. Um, but

1668
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,000
recognizing the potential conflict.

1669
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:19,990
>> Thank you. Um, and with that, let's

1670
01:14:19,990 --> 01:14:20,000
» Thank you. Um, and with that, let's

1671
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,120
proceed and then we'll ask you um to

1672
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:24,960
just uh leave and come back to the zoom

1673
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:26,640
when we are ready to discuss anything

1674
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,040
having to do with the HOA issue.

1675
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,110
>> Thank you, city manager.

1676
01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:31,120
» Thank you, city manager.

1677
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:32,470
>> Honorable mayor, members of the council,

1678
01:14:32,470 --> 01:14:32,480
» Honorable mayor, members of the council,

1679
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:34,560
I'll just do a brief back brief

1680
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:36,960
background on the infrastructure

1681
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:38,719
committee. It was established in

1682
01:14:38,719 --> 01:14:40,800
February of 2024.

1683
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,760
Uh in June of 2024, the council reviewed

1684
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,600
the committee's work program which was

1685
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,760
refined in July of 2024 and work uh

1686
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:52,480
began in earnest at that point with the

1687
01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:55,760
committee meeting to discuss uh that

1688
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,480
program that was adopted by the council.

1689
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:01,212
Uh in January of 2025,

1690
01:15:01,212 --> 01:15:01,350
>> [snorts]

1691
01:15:01,350 --> 01:15:01,360
» [snorts]

1692
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,709
>> uh the terms of the infrastructure

1693
01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:04,719
» uh the terms of the infrastructure

1694
01:15:04,719 --> 01:15:07,440
committee were amended and restated and

1695
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:09,280
extending the term until the end of

1696
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,560
2025. And then in April, the council

1697
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,239
approved funding requests for the

1698
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:16,320
committee to conduct the private roads

1699
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:18,000
questionnaire which was consistent with

1700
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,880
the work program. And in November of

1701
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,120
2025, the council extended the term of

1702
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,199
the committee to end in December of

1703
01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:26,880
2026.

1704
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,719
The committee has been working now for

1705
01:15:28,719 --> 01:15:30,080
more than a year and a half with the

1706
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:33,040
assistance of staff to try and finish up

1707
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,159
the work plan. Uh at its most recent

1708
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:38,640
meeting in January, the committee had a

1709
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,520
very substantial agenda including many

1710
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,280
topics. The topics included research on

1711
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,199
other agencies that provide funding for

1712
01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:49,440
the maintenance of roads, additional

1713
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:51,199
background on the Arinda Woods

1714
01:15:51,199 --> 01:15:53,280
maintenance agreement, and a discussion

1715
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,199
about a proposed framework for the

1716
01:15:55,199 --> 01:15:58,400
acceptance of private roads. uh that

1717
01:15:58,400 --> 01:15:59,840
following that discussion, the committee

1718
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:01,440
requested additional information which

1719
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:03,440
we'll be bringing back to their next

1720
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:05,440
meeting and that included more

1721
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:07,360
information regarding the program in

1722
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:11,520
Sanelmo uh that was related to the grant

1723
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,640
funding uh for private road maintenance.

1724
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:17,440
Uh so I wanted to turn it back over to

1725
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:20,080
the committee uh because at that meeting

1726
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,560
we did discuss the framework and thought

1727
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,400
it was an appropriate time to come back

1728
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,320
and discuss it with the city council

1729
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,719
since uh some of the things that were

1730
01:16:28,719 --> 01:16:30,960
being proposed are are fairly

1731
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,840
substantive and uh so I'll turn it back

1732
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,159
over to the vice mayor and to council

1733
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:38,719
member Malcani who can maybe comment a

1734
01:16:38,719 --> 01:16:40,239
little bit about the work of the

1735
01:16:40,239 --> 01:16:42,239
infrastructure committee and how far

1736
01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:45,120
we've come and Uh, you know, this is

1737
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:47,120
really a pivotal point for moving to the

1738
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,520
next phase of trying to work through any

1739
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,440
policy changes that the council may want

1740
01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:54,080
to consider.

1741
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:55,590
>> Vice Mayor, you want to kick it off and

1742
01:16:55,590 --> 01:16:55,600
» Vice Mayor, you want to kick it off and

1743
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,960
then I'll I'll add. Yeah, I think uh and

1744
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:02,880
again um city manager um Smith um you

1745
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,199
know, please correct anything if I don't

1746
01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:07,679
phrase it quite correctly, but what I

1747
01:17:07,679 --> 01:17:10,560
what I want everyone to know is that the

1748
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,040
key word really here for our discussion

1749
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,800
tonight is framework. This this in and

1750
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:20,400
of itself is not a written policy at

1751
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:24,960
this point. Uh what this is is a

1752
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:27,600
outgrowth of our year and a half of

1753
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:29,920
meeting with the public and um people

1754
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,840
that have been interested in the topic

1755
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,840
material. Uh we have a current policy

1756
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,239
56-18

1757
01:17:38,239 --> 01:17:40,560
that is about the acceptance of private

1758
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:44,960
roads and it has um I I guess my

1759
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:48,719
comments would simply be that it has um

1760
01:17:48,719 --> 01:17:52,239
never had any um

1761
01:17:52,239 --> 01:17:55,440
private roads uh attempt acceptance

1762
01:17:55,440 --> 01:17:59,679
under it um without uh you know without

1763
01:17:59,679 --> 01:18:03,199
providing um you know unne necessary

1764
01:18:03,199 --> 01:18:06,159
commentary. It was never a policy in my

1765
01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:09,920
mind and I was there that it was not

1766
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,239
really intended

1767
01:18:12,239 --> 01:18:14,400
um to be

1768
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,199
um a tool that was really allowing

1769
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:19,280
people that lived on private roads to

1770
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:21,360
explore whether they wanted to offer

1771
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,360
them for acceptance to the public or

1772
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:27,199
not. Quite frankly, it was primarily um

1773
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:34,229
it was primarily drafted to again um

1774
01:18:34,239 --> 01:18:36,239
continue the separation of public and

1775
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:38,719
private roads in a way that you know

1776
01:18:38,719 --> 01:18:42,239
again was deemed um important to the

1777
01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:45,600
city's physical situation. So it was

1778
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:50,000
never um you know it was it was deeply

1779
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,280
contested in some ways at the time and

1780
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,920
um it did not and I did not support it

1781
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,560
at the time but the reality is is it

1782
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:00,880
turned into our policy and it's been

1783
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:02,480
it's been kind of one of those things

1784
01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:04,400
that sits on the shelf because it really

1785
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:07,040
can't be used for anything. um the way

1786
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:09,040
it's written, there is no private road

1787
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:11,120
in Arinda that can really, you know,

1788
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,280
apply to be accepted into the public

1789
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:16,080
road system under it and be accepted.

1790
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:17,520
It's just not going to happen. That's

1791
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:20,080
how uh that's how it's worded. So,

1792
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,600
obviously, that's been um uh you know, a

1793
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:25,280
troublesome point for a lot of our

1794
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,920
residents that contend with living on a

1795
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,159
private road. And again, I think it's

1796
01:19:30,159 --> 01:19:31,840
important that our community remember

1797
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,480
that, you know, this is this is fully

1798
01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:37,440
20% of our community. This is not four

1799
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:40,320
or five homes and this is not just a

1800
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,600
handful of people. This is um if you

1801
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,159
look at the map of all of our private

1802
01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:48,159
roads throughout the community, it

1803
01:19:48,159 --> 01:19:50,320
touches almost every corner of our

1804
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:53,040
community. and um you know and some of

1805
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:55,679
them you know and the as people that

1806
01:19:55,679 --> 01:19:58,159
have paid attention to this issue know

1807
01:19:58,159 --> 01:20:01,520
the the description of our private road

1808
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,719
network is um

1809
01:20:04,719 --> 01:20:10,400
is just a a maze of uh of differences.

1810
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,640
Some of them are very new such as I'm

1811
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:14,480
looking at uh some of our audience

1812
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:16,400
members. Some of them are very new that

1813
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,719
were the newer developments like Wilder

1814
01:20:18,719 --> 01:20:23,040
and Arinda Woods and the Downs and um at

1815
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:25,760
the time, you know, they were uh part of

1816
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:27,679
development agreements when the city

1817
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:30,800
didn't have um the resources to maintain

1818
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:33,920
roads and um and they were and they were

1819
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:35,679
very formalized as part of the

1820
01:20:35,679 --> 01:20:37,600
development agreement. Some of them are

1821
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,679
roads that date back into the you know

1822
01:20:39,679 --> 01:20:42,400
30s, 40s, 50s, 60s in which there's

1823
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:45,360
simply no um understanding at all of

1824
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,600
some of the reasons and rationale for

1825
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:50,880
why things um occurred. We certainly

1826
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:54,640
have a whole host of roads that were um

1827
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:57,600
offered for public acceptance and not

1828
01:20:57,600 --> 01:20:59,920
accepted although the documentation as

1829
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:02,640
to why is completely lacking. We have

1830
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:04,640
other roads as council member Hawky

1831
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:06,480
mentioned that you know were never

1832
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:09,120
offered. Um we basically have one of

1833
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:11,120
almost everything somewhere that you

1834
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:13,760
could imagine. What we don't have within

1835
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,440
the whole system is um really any of our

1836
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:20,640
privately maintained roads that are not

1837
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:24,000
um open for public use. I mean quite

1838
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,120
frankly uh we have one little segment of

1839
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:29,679
one uh in North Arinda where

1840
01:21:29,679 --> 01:21:32,400
occasionally they choose to gate it off

1841
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,520
but other than that little tiny piece um

1842
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:39,520
the you know vast majority of um all of

1843
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,360
these roads which which is uh you know

1844
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:46,560
quite a an extensive amount when taken

1845
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,760
together um are all being used by the

1846
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,000
public. Now,

1847
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,880
uh, granted, um, they're virtually all

1848
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,679
residential roads, so there may be very

1849
01:21:57,679 --> 01:21:59,600
little traffic on some of them, but they

1850
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,880
are open for public use. So, as part of

1851
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,199
the subcommittee's work, um, the

1852
01:22:05,199 --> 01:22:08,639
discussion of the policy of 56-18

1853
01:22:08,639 --> 01:22:11,360
has been, you know, of great concern.

1854
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,920
Um, again, the subcommittee is not at a

1855
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,960
point. I mean, eventually our goal is to

1856
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,840
come back to the full council with again

1857
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:23,440
recommendations that we hope will um

1858
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:25,840
improve this situation in our community

1859
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,920
because it's been an incredibly and

1860
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:30,560
continues to be a very divisive issue.

1861
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,320
Even sometimes when we don't hear a lot

1862
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,400
about it, there's very strong opinions

1863
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,040
and feelings about it on both sides.

1864
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:38,320
Whether you live on public roads,

1865
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:39,600
whether you live on private roads,

1866
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:41,679
whether you think um we should do

1867
01:22:41,679 --> 01:22:43,040
something about it, whether you think we

1868
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:44,960
shouldn't do something about it, uh we

1869
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,040
have opinions across the board in every

1870
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:50,320
category. Um our our hope as the

1871
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:52,159
subcommittee has been to continue to

1872
01:22:52,159 --> 01:22:56,719
explore it. We've I uh believe council

1873
01:22:56,719 --> 01:22:59,520
member Malcani agrees with me and

1874
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,520
probably even steady staff does is that

1875
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,159
we've had enormously

1876
01:23:04,159 --> 01:23:08,480
um amazing um public conversations with

1877
01:23:08,480 --> 01:23:11,600
our community in the subcommittee. Um I

1878
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:13,600
would say the participation of the

1879
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,760
public in our subcommittee has been the

1880
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:18,719
highest I've ever seen for any topic. um

1881
01:23:18,719 --> 01:23:21,920
it remains you know of great concern and

1882
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:25,600
you know we have heard um amazing you

1883
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,840
know amazing feedback in every way shape

1884
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,639
or form. Um at this point in time I

1885
01:23:30,639 --> 01:23:32,480
don't think where the subcommittee is

1886
01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:34,080
not at a point where we're trying to

1887
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,840
recommend here is the solution and pick

1888
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:39,760
one thing even though we know there are

1889
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,840
very strong feelings about what that

1890
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:44,880
solution should be um by many of our

1891
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:48,080
residents. The reality is is again just

1892
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:49,840
like we don't have any private roads

1893
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,080
that are sort of one-sizefits-all,

1894
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:53,840
we're not sure that the solution is

1895
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,320
one-sizefits-all either. Um and and so I

1896
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:00,800
think what we're um what we've talked

1897
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,520
about is that over time we'd like to see

1898
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,920
the possibility that there could be

1899
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,159
better options than there are today. And

1900
01:24:08,159 --> 01:24:10,000
what those all are going to turn out to

1901
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:14,000
be sort of remains to be seen. But the

1902
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,960
existing policy 56-18

1903
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:20,719
I this is a personal opinion. So it it

1904
01:24:20,719 --> 01:24:24,000
only belongs to Darlene. But it is in my

1905
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:27,760
opinion it's a very adversarial policy.

1906
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:32,159
It is not intended to be um welcoming to

1907
01:24:32,159 --> 01:24:34,080
a lot of members of our community in

1908
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,520
terms of um of what it's potentially

1909
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,159
offering and and in an area that I

1910
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:43,199
personally feel very strongly does fall

1911
01:24:43,199 --> 01:24:45,920
into I I believe public works in all of

1912
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,400
its way, shapes and forms falls into the

1913
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,360
domain of why government exists. So I

1914
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,360
think that um you know all the

1915
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,600
conversations we have have been

1916
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,159
exceptional and I and I and this

1917
01:24:58,159 --> 01:25:01,920
framework is um is a summary of so many

1918
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:03,920
things that we have talked about in a

1919
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:07,040
way that we could as we move forward

1920
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:10,480
tend to look for ways to um provide

1921
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:14,639
options that would um instead of being

1922
01:25:14,639 --> 01:25:17,520
you know the 56-18

1923
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:21,199
policy of no you can't do this to maybe

1924
01:25:21,199 --> 01:25:23,760
find ways that if it was acceptable to

1925
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:27,840
the city um that we could allow people

1926
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:30,639
to do this. So the key word again is

1927
01:25:30,639 --> 01:25:33,760
framework that that it's not that

1928
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:36,000
everything on this list is an absolute

1929
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,560
given one way or the other and I do hope

1930
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,040
people understand that at this point but

1931
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:44,000
because there are so many key ideas here

1932
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,000
I think it was important that we bring

1933
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,560
it back for consideration by the whole

1934
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:53,440
council before we try to draft or have

1935
01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:55,679
staff help us you know draft new

1936
01:25:55,679 --> 01:25:58,400
policies. So, those are my comments and

1937
01:25:58,400 --> 01:25:59,760
to the extent that council member

1938
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,560
Malcani, our other um representative on

1939
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:04,480
the subcommittee or the staff have

1940
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:07,679
comments about that, I would welcome

1941
01:26:07,679 --> 01:26:11,830
having those added.

1942
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:14,320
» Well,

1943
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:16,239
there's someone quoted this to me

1944
01:26:16,239 --> 01:26:18,639
recently, nothing has been said unless

1945
01:26:18,639 --> 01:26:20,560
everyone on a committee says the same

1946
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,320
thing. I'm going to try not to do that

1947
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,480
now since you think you well summarized

1948
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:26,400
but I do want to emphasize at the risk

1949
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,320
of redundancy a couple things which is

1950
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:31,840
just um

1951
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,320
you know there was a lot of frustration

1952
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:37,199
with the old or the existing policy

1953
01:26:37,199 --> 01:26:39,440
because it's really seen as something

1954
01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:42,239
that just is impractical and essentially

1955
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:44,239
almost impossible and really serves as a

1956
01:26:44,239 --> 01:26:47,760
roadblock right and so that engendered a

1957
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:50,320
lot of bad feelings and and I think you

1958
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:53,120
know uh resentment and bitterness and

1959
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:56,159
and frustration you know which frankly

1960
01:26:56,159 --> 01:26:58,239
from my perspective was understandable.

1961
01:26:58,239 --> 01:27:01,679
So what you know I do I do agree that

1962
01:27:01,679 --> 01:27:04,320
this is simply a framework right and but

1963
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,960
what it represents really is um I think

1964
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,560
I think the reason um I think the

1965
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:12,159
infrastructure committee and staff

1966
01:27:12,159 --> 01:27:15,040
really wanted to bring this to the full

1967
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:17,840
council is because it is it is a tone

1968
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:21,120
shift in a framework of you know don't

1969
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:23,280
talk to us about this issue to we do

1970
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,040
want to talk about this issue now do we

1971
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,040
have the solutions completely no we

1972
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:29,920
don't But it is a tone shift and you

1973
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,719
know it's it's a it's a tone shift in

1974
01:27:32,719 --> 01:27:35,120
that it's a policy that's no longer

1975
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,920
functioning as a roadblock but is

1976
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:40,560
actually a real functional policy with

1977
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,199
an attempted objective criteria. You

1978
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:45,600
know the criteria is trying to address

1979
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,800
the varying circumstances with within

1980
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:51,840
Arinda and recognizing that neither the

1981
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:53,679
problem nor the solution is a

1982
01:27:53,679 --> 01:27:56,400
one-sizefits-all. Um, and I had

1983
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:57,760
independently written that down from

1984
01:27:57,760 --> 01:27:59,520
you. I know you just said that, Vice

1985
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:02,560
Mayor, but um, but you know, because of

1986
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:04,719
that and these factors, we felt it had

1987
01:28:04,719 --> 01:28:08,239
enough form now that we could and wanted

1988
01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:11,040
to bring it back to our colleagues for

1989
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:15,199
for input. And one thing to remember in

1990
01:28:15,199 --> 01:28:19,280
this discussion is we aren't you know it

1991
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:24,080
it is a framework but again um

1992
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:27,760
it is a check-in point on a continuum of

1993
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:32,000
trying to address uh you know the

1994
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,360
problem multiaceted uh problems and

1995
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:37,679
challenges with privately maintained

1996
01:28:37,679 --> 01:28:40,400
roads.

1997
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:42,000
Please.

1998
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:44,880
Uh I know that again uh one of the first

1999
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:46,719
questions almost everyone asks

2000
01:28:46,719 --> 01:28:50,480
immediately and may be of uh being

2001
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:53,280
gotten ready to be asked tonight but um

2002
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:56,719
the obviously uh policies you know

2003
01:28:56,719 --> 01:28:59,120
ultimately result in you know some

2004
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:02,480
potential impacts on costs and there's

2005
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:05,280
been no attempt at this point um I mean

2006
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:06,960
we've raised the issue that everything

2007
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:09,440
costs something but we there's no

2008
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:12,480
attempt to compare this or have this

2009
01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:14,639
defined or if the question is what is

2010
01:29:14,639 --> 01:29:16,880
this all going to cost? We don't have

2011
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:18,960
any answers to that right now. We've not

2012
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,560
tried to encapsulate that. We've not

2013
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:24,560
go down that road even though we know

2014
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,360
that ultimately that will be absolutely

2015
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:28,960
critical to a whole lot of things.

2016
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:31,280
Right? So it's not like we're, you know,

2017
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:33,679
being ignorant or naive or just trying

2018
01:29:33,679 --> 01:29:37,040
to, you know, um have magical thinking

2019
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,440
here about how this all works. We know

2020
01:29:39,440 --> 01:29:42,639
that this has you know serious you know

2021
01:29:42,639 --> 01:29:45,040
cost implications whether it's to our

2022
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,199
residents whether it's to the city

2023
01:29:47,199 --> 01:29:50,400
however it gets structured you know

2024
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:52,800
maintenance of roads and drains requires

2025
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:56,320
money so that will all have to continue

2026
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:59,679
to evolve but the framework itself is

2027
01:29:59,679 --> 01:30:02,560
not attempting to say this is going to

2028
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:05,120
cost this much or that much so I just

2029
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:06,320
want to make sure that we're clear about

2030
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:07,520
that

2031
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:08,790
>> thank you very much council member

2032
01:30:08,790 --> 01:30:08,800
» thank you very much council member

2033
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,520
Hawky, did you have questions?

2034
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,070
>> I think it would be helpful if um the

2035
01:30:14,070 --> 01:30:14,080
» I think it would be helpful if um the

2036
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:16,400
vice mayor would just go over the

2037
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:18,960
framework that her committee is

2038
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,280
proposing at this time for the public

2039
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:24,159
and for everybody to think about.

2040
01:30:24,159 --> 01:30:26,320
I would not only agree with that that it

2041
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:27,600
would help if you guys would sort of

2042
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:29,600
walk us through these, but when you get

2043
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,960
to the one about um 20 years versus five

2044
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:37,120
years because the current ordinance says

2045
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,199
5 years before it needs maintenance and

2046
01:30:39,199 --> 01:30:41,520
20 years before it needs to be replaced

2047
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,960
and I'm I'm paraphrasing. Um

2048
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,280
the if you could go a little bit deeper

2049
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:50,719
on what you mean by what in five years

2050
01:30:50,719 --> 01:30:54,480
uh was the one question I had as well.

2051
01:30:54,480 --> 01:30:56,320
I mean, that was something that I think

2052
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:59,280
as staff was taking a look at resolution

2053
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:04,960
5918, we noted that in order for the

2054
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,400
city to accept a roadway, it would need

2055
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,120
to not be maintained for essentially 20

2056
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:12,400
years, right? It would have to be in

2057
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,880
condition. And SA, I think you should

2058
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:16,560
probably come sit up here in case you

2059
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:18,080
get called up to talk about some of

2060
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:22,080
these things. Um but really uh the

2061
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:24,800
intention at least that staff had in

2062
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:26,800
proposing this framework back to the

2063
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,159
committee was you know what are the

2064
01:31:30,159 --> 01:31:32,880
things that we've heard over time that

2065
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:37,760
have contributed to basically not

2066
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:39,760
receiving any sort of application and

2067
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:43,760
and you know gave threshold of up to 20

2068
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:47,360
years is a is a a perfectly maintained

2069
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:49,360
road I would say. I don't know SA if you

2070
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:50,400
want to comment on that but

2071
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:52,709
>> if I can just before you respond the

2072
01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:52,719
» if I can just before you respond the

2073
01:31:52,719 --> 01:31:55,360
exact wording in the current ordinance

2074
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:59,679
is um provide a pavement life of 20

2075
01:31:59,679 --> 01:32:01,760
years the roadway shall be in a

2076
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:03,520
condition to not need surface

2077
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:06,320
maintenance treatment for 5 years. So if

2078
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:07,600
you can help clarify what you're

2079
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,960
proposing relative to that standard.

2080
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:12,709
>> Yeah. Um good evening madame mayor and

2081
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:12,719
» Yeah. Um good evening madame mayor and

2082
01:32:12,719 --> 01:32:15,360
council members. Um

2083
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:18,080
the five years is

2084
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:20,320
In line with how we are approaching our

2085
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:22,560
current public street uh pavement

2086
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:25,360
maintenance um we go through as I've

2087
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,000
mentioned in prior sessions uh we use a

2088
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,120
um program that allows us to keep tabs

2089
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,520
on the condition of the pavement and uh

2090
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:35,360
do preventive maintenance. That's kind

2091
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:38,000
of our primary goal uh to extend the

2092
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,000
pavement life and that cycle roughly

2093
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,960
falls in that 5year time period. So one

2094
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:46,320
way to look at it is um

2095
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:48,480
more than likely a street will get

2096
01:32:48,480 --> 01:32:50,800
surfaced with what we call like the

2097
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:54,239
minimum u surface treatments slurry seal

2098
01:32:54,239 --> 01:32:58,880
um around 5ear cycles. Uh so that's the

2099
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:00,719
connection to this 5year that you're

2100
01:33:00,719 --> 01:33:03,760
looking at.

2101
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:05,679
Again it's uh slightly different from

2102
01:33:05,679 --> 01:33:07,679
the life of the pavement. So when you're

2103
01:33:07,679 --> 01:33:10,239
talking about pavement life, it's a

2104
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:14,320
different context versus maintenance um

2105
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:17,040
which is worth the five years.

2106
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:18,719
And I'm not sure this is a question to

2107
01:33:18,719 --> 01:33:20,480
you or I guess vice mayor when you walk

2108
01:33:20,480 --> 01:33:22,080
through this frame framework if you

2109
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:25,360
could be very specific about what test

2110
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:28,400
you are proposing because I get that

2111
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:30,239
slurry seal is about every 5 years and

2112
01:33:30,239 --> 01:33:32,880
replacement is different but I cannot

2113
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:35,360
translate the current ordinance to the

2114
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,639
proposed framework without little help.

2115
01:33:38,639 --> 01:33:41,280
So can I chime in on something just for

2116
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,679
a suggestion? Um, and I'm just thinking

2117
01:33:43,679 --> 01:33:45,760
back.

2118
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:47,520
So, in the infrastructure committee, we

2119
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,520
had the benefit of actually a staff

2120
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:51,760
presentation from our city engineer and

2121
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:55,679
our director about the framework. And I

2122
01:33:55,679 --> 01:33:59,830
don't

2123
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:03,280
I don't know. I'm happy to let the vice

2124
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:06,480
mayor do that if she wants. I don't feel

2125
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:09,679
like I can go through and necessarily

2126
01:34:09,679 --> 01:34:11,440
answer all your questions without

2127
01:34:11,440 --> 01:34:14,880
turning to staff with all of them. Um,

2128
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,840
so maybe we could we could go through

2129
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:20,800
the framework with our city engineers

2130
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,480
um,

2131
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:24,480
uh, presentation or just walk us through

2132
01:34:24,480 --> 01:34:26,239
it and we could chime in as

2133
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:28,239
infrastructure committee members. That

2134
01:34:28,239 --> 01:34:30,800
might be one way to do it. And then the

2135
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:34,320
other thing is that a framework is

2136
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:37,920
simply you know this is a framework is

2137
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:41,520
guidance that can then be used to

2138
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,159
develop a new ordinance or a new

2139
01:34:44,159 --> 01:34:47,440
resolution. So I don't know that we're

2140
01:34:47,440 --> 01:34:48,960
from the framework we're not going to

2141
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:51,280
have exact language as to what a

2142
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:52,960
resolution would in other words any

2143
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:54,639
resolution my understanding would be

2144
01:34:54,639 --> 01:34:56,000
brought back to the infrastructure

2145
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:58,159
committee first for some finetuning and

2146
01:34:58,159 --> 01:35:01,040
then to the council but we didn't want

2147
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:03,760
to say to staff as an infrastructure

2148
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:06,800
committee take this policy framework and

2149
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,000
go develop a resolution without doing a

2150
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:11,600
check-in first with the full council.

2151
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:12,080
Does that make

2152
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:13,270
>> understood? I think what council member

2153
01:35:13,270 --> 01:35:13,280
» understood? I think what council member

2154
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:16,080
Hawky asked for and what I agree is we

2155
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:18,400
would like for one of the two members of

2156
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:20,880
the subcommittee to literally just walk

2157
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:22,400
us through your nine bullet points and

2158
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,320
explain the rationale so that we can

2159
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:25,840
comment and we know we're just

2160
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:26,719
commenting.

2161
01:35:26,719 --> 01:35:27,270
>> Okay.

2162
01:35:27,270 --> 01:35:27,280
» Okay.

2163
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:29,270
>> Can I make one uh correction on the

2164
01:35:29,270 --> 01:35:29,280
» Can I make one uh correction on the

2165
01:35:29,280 --> 01:35:31,360
framework? Uh, I think it was a staff

2166
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:33,679
error. Uh, bullet two where it says

2167
01:35:33,679 --> 01:35:35,360
eliminating the requirement for all

2168
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,040
property owners to sign an application

2169
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:39,199
when an offer for acceptance when an

2170
01:35:39,199 --> 01:35:41,199
offer of dedication on the road already

2171
01:35:41,199 --> 01:35:45,600
exists. That is inaccurate. The it's um

2172
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:47,120
that shouldn't be in there at all

2173
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:49,360
because it currently does not require

2174
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,440
that. So, that isn't a change. So, I

2175
01:35:51,440 --> 01:35:53,280
just wanted to be clear about that. So,

2176
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:57,040
that bullet is um needs to be removed

2177
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:01,990
from the discussion.

2178
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,239
I think what staff was attempting to do

2179
01:36:04,239 --> 01:36:06,080
in presenting these bullets to the

2180
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:09,040
infrastructure committee was to go

2181
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,560
through resolution 59-18 and try to

2182
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:17,360
identify areas where we could be more I

2183
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:19,199
guess less restrictive and more

2184
01:36:19,199 --> 01:36:24,000
encouraging. And I think the the I would

2185
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:26,880
suggest unless uh OSA and SA have any

2186
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:30,400
other thoughts, the two kind of bigger

2187
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:32,400
items is the lowering of the pavement

2188
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:33,760
condition threshold because there was a

2189
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:35,360
lot of discussion about from when we

2190
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:37,440
were talking about staff level if we

2191
01:36:37,440 --> 01:36:39,600
should come up with a PCI

2192
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:41,280
uh you know is this about maintenance of

2193
01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:47,040
the roads. So um we right now it says uh

2194
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:48,639
that

2195
01:36:48,639 --> 01:36:50,719
basically in order to accept the road

2196
01:36:50,719 --> 01:36:53,280
the condition of the road has to be in

2197
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:55,199
good shape for a period of up to 20

2198
01:36:55,199 --> 01:36:56,880
years

2199
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,520
and we're suggesting that that's a very

2200
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:01,760
high bar. I don't know what PCI that

2201
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,320
potentially could be equated to, but

2202
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:07,440
that that is one of the reasons why

2203
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:10,320
we're not seeing anybody step forward

2204
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,360
because and and we did do a PCI index of

2205
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:15,040
all the roads, including the private

2206
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:16,880
roads. So, we also have that information

2207
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:19,600
available to us and in many cases it was

2208
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:21,360
a lot better than we expected. In some

2209
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:24,159
it was exactly as expected, right? The

2210
01:37:24,159 --> 01:37:26,080
PCIs aren't as great as we would want

2211
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:28,880
them to be. Um, the other piece of

2212
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:32,480
course is the current resolution

2213
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:34,960
restricts and prohibits

2214
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:36,480
communities that are served by

2215
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:38,080
homeowners associations from

2216
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:40,960
participating at all. And so I think

2217
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,920
those were kind of the bigger items uh

2218
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,360
of the bullets. And um we could talk a

2219
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:48,880
little bit about I mean obviously the

2220
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:50,239
final bullet under there is just

2221
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:54,000
shifting the tone to being one in which

2222
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:57,280
um the staff and the city are willing

2223
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,920
and supportive of requests that might

2224
01:37:59,920 --> 01:38:04,159
come in to make changes. Um you know in

2225
01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:07,440
looking these bullets there's a lot of

2226
01:38:07,440 --> 01:38:10,800
requirements in resolution 59-18.

2227
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:13,679
I'm not going to sit here and say with

2228
01:38:13,679 --> 01:38:17,119
any proposed framework to modify that

2229
01:38:17,119 --> 01:38:20,480
resolution or this policy that it's

2230
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:24,000
going to be easy. It is definitely it's

2231
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,280
a very um involved process in order to

2232
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:30,880
take a road from being public I mean

2233
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:33,199
privately maintained to publicly

2234
01:38:33,199 --> 01:38:36,880
maintained and the committee did take an

2235
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:39,119
opportunity to look at other ways to do

2236
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:41,119
that right it's a spectrum of choice

2237
01:38:41,119 --> 01:38:44,159
there's uh the Arinda Woods model in

2238
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:46,000
which the city is playing a role in

2239
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,840
maintaining it um the the model Sanelmo

2240
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:52,480
is using in assisting their private road

2241
01:38:52,480 --> 01:38:53,920
owners, which by the way, we could only

2242
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:55,920
find one program in the state of

2243
01:38:55,920 --> 01:38:59,520
California, uh is really about providing

2244
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,400
grants to neighbors and residences. So,

2245
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:05,440
it was really trying to meet residents

2246
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:08,239
where they were at. Some residents want

2247
01:39:08,239 --> 01:39:10,000
to maintain their roads and want to

2248
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:11,840
maintain private roads, but might seek

2249
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:14,880
some assistance. Um, you know, we have

2250
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:19,760
the the uh the Arinda Woods example,

2251
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:21,760
which I think when we brought that

2252
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:23,600
forward at the meeting, there was a lot

2253
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:25,119
of

2254
01:39:25,119 --> 01:39:27,360
um surprise about how many other roads

2255
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:30,400
in Arinda Woods are actually public. Uh

2256
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:32,800
because I think when it's being

2257
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:34,960
discussed, everybody thinks that most of

2258
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:36,320
those roads are private, but in fact,

2259
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:37,520
there are very few that are actually

2260
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,440
private. Uh so that was a good

2261
01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:41,920
discussion to have. Uh and then this is

2262
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:43,760
sort of on the other end of okay are we

2263
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:46,880
going to address policy. So again the

2264
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:49,119
committee is looking at the idea of

2265
01:39:49,119 --> 01:39:52,480
grants programs uh supportive programs

2266
01:39:52,480 --> 01:39:54,800
to help private road privately

2267
01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:57,280
maintained property owners who are

2268
01:39:57,280 --> 01:39:59,119
living on those roads and then looking

2269
01:39:59,119 --> 01:40:01,199
at changes to the resolution that make

2270
01:40:01,199 --> 01:40:02,960
it

2271
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:05,360
less challenging to move forward. So I

2272
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:08,639
think I just the framework is dealing

2273
01:40:08,639 --> 01:40:11,600
with this one piece but I think the c

2274
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:14,080
the committee is trying to look at a

2275
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:19,119
broad range of options for which um they

2276
01:40:19,119 --> 01:40:20,719
can make recommendations back to the

2277
01:40:20,719 --> 01:40:23,360
council. I think when we wanted to bring

2278
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:25,520
the framework is simply because we don't

2279
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:28,560
want to spend more staff time digging in

2280
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:31,199
and researching and coming up with the

2281
01:40:31,199 --> 01:40:33,280
financial implications of all this. If

2282
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:36,080
the council's not interested as a body

2283
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:38,480
in pursuing, you know, any major

2284
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:41,199
modifications 59-18,

2285
01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:42,960
then we need to know that so that we're

2286
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:45,360
not spending an inordinate amount of

2287
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:47,119
time in infrastructure committee, a well

2288
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:49,679
attended group, a a very engaged group

2289
01:40:49,679 --> 01:40:51,760
of residents. And so we wanted to take

2290
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:54,560
this opportunity as we, you know, have

2291
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:56,560
eight months left in this group to try

2292
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:58,719
and come up with some solutions. I don't

2293
01:40:58,719 --> 01:41:00,800
know uh SA if you just want to talk

2294
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:02,639
through any of the bullets that are

2295
01:41:02,639 --> 01:41:04,320
listed there in the proposed framework

2296
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:06,639
aside from the two that I've mentioned.

2297
01:41:06,639 --> 01:41:07,520
Um

2298
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,669
>> um I was just looking a little closer at

2299
01:41:09,669 --> 01:41:09,679
» um I was just looking a little closer at

2300
01:41:09,679 --> 01:41:11,840
the particular question the mayor had

2301
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:14,639
and um just looking at the current

2302
01:41:14,639 --> 01:41:16,480
resolution wording there is two

2303
01:41:16,480 --> 01:41:19,280
components to that paragraph. Uh one is

2304
01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:21,280
talking about the life of the pavement

2305
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:22,960
and then the second part of it talks

2306
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,280
about the maintenance component of it.

2307
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:29,199
Um the proposal is to not focus so much

2308
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:32,080
on the life of the pavement and rather

2309
01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:34,320
change it focus on the PCI component of

2310
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:36,639
it. That's why the 5year term comes in.

2311
01:41:36,639 --> 01:41:39,840
Part of the reason is um they are looked

2312
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:41,920
at in different manner uh to know the

2313
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:43,679
life of a payment. there's more invasive

2314
01:41:43,679 --> 01:41:46,080
testing involved and uh reports that

2315
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:48,960
needs to be generated doesn't quite

2316
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:52,080
necessarily reflect how um we maintain

2317
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:54,560
the roads currently that are in place

2318
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:57,920
and also last year we did a uh payment

2319
01:41:57,920 --> 01:41:59,679
management uh review of the private

2320
01:41:59,679 --> 01:42:01,360
roads for the first time. So that gave

2321
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:03,440
some insight into what the current

2322
01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:05,360
condition of the roadways are. So all

2323
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:07,040
those factors came into play to

2324
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,119
recommend that as one of the framework

2325
01:42:09,119 --> 01:42:12,709
item.

2326
01:42:12,719 --> 01:42:15,360
» Yeah. And um I'll add and I think it's

2327
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:17,280
important especially for the mayor and

2328
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:19,520
council member Hawky since you don't

2329
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:21,840
attend the subcommittee meetings and SA

2330
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:24,639
can correct me when I uh make a misstep

2331
01:42:24,639 --> 01:42:27,280
into what I'm saying but when we did as

2332
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:30,080
you know we did the um assessment for

2333
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:33,199
the first time um of evaluating the

2334
01:42:33,199 --> 01:42:35,600
pavement condition of the private roads

2335
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:38,000
throughout the community that and we did

2336
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:40,320
it in the same fashion that we do for

2337
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:42,880
our public roads. So, we were able to

2338
01:42:42,880 --> 01:42:45,199
get the same kind of comparative data

2339
01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:48,159
for the first time in this very long

2340
01:42:48,159 --> 01:42:51,199
discussion. And I I guess what I would

2341
01:42:51,199 --> 01:42:53,520
um and I'll have SA help me if I

2342
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:57,040
misstate something, but um the overall

2343
01:42:57,040 --> 01:43:00,480
PCI rating if you took it all averaged

2344
01:43:00,480 --> 01:43:04,400
together was around 69, right? Um it it

2345
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:06,000
was at was that

2346
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,390
>> I do not recolct the ex exact number,

2347
01:43:08,390 --> 01:43:08,400
» I do not recolct the ex exact number,

2348
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:12,080
but it was over 60. Yeah, it was it was

2349
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:15,840
in the you know it was near

2350
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:20,080
collectively all of it being you know in

2351
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:22,480
pretty good shape overall but that was

2352
01:43:22,480 --> 01:43:24,960
characterized after you split it out.

2353
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:30,480
Remember, you have the larger, newer HOA

2354
01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:32,480
communities like Wilder and some of the

2355
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:36,159
other newest places in the city where

2356
01:43:36,159 --> 01:43:38,960
the pavement is in excellent condition,

2357
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:41,600
both because it's relatively new and has

2358
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:43,920
never had any really serious maintenance

2359
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:46,719
problems. So, all of it is in excellent

2360
01:43:46,719 --> 01:43:48,880
condition. And in fact, by far and away,

2361
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:51,119
probably the best condition of any of

2362
01:43:51,119 --> 01:43:53,920
the roads in Arinda, even taking into

2363
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:55,119
account some of our pretty

2364
01:43:55,119 --> 01:43:57,679
well-maintained arterials at this point.

2365
01:43:57,679 --> 01:43:59,600
Then I would say there was probably a

2366
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:03,679
pretty hefty midsection of private roads

2367
01:44:03,679 --> 01:44:07,360
that were in, you know, anywhere from,

2368
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:12,000
you know, pretty good to, you know, the

2369
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:14,239
upper ends of it. They certainly were

2370
01:44:14,239 --> 01:44:15,840
not in terrible shape. they were not

2371
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:17,520
really falling apart. They had been

2372
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:20,080
maintained in some way, shape or fashion

2373
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:23,440
by the residents and um and then I would

2374
01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:27,360
say there was a sector of probably much

2375
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:29,520
older and probably not particularly

2376
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:32,080
well-maintained and that probably

2377
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:34,080
drugged down a little bit of the overall

2378
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:36,080
average. So when you think of the

2379
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:38,719
universe of our private roads, by far

2380
01:44:38,719 --> 01:44:42,960
and away um more, you know, the the

2381
01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:45,520
majority of them are actually in in

2382
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:47,600
really good shape, okay? Because you

2383
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:50,239
have to, you know, easily take a look at

2384
01:44:50,239 --> 01:44:55,199
at at the ones that are very new. Um and

2385
01:44:55,199 --> 01:44:59,040
you know, they are not um they are not

2386
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:01,760
places that would, you know, require a

2387
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:05,199
lot of maintenance anytime soon. So the

2388
01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:07,360
kind of remembering what that universe

2389
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:11,520
looks like and and again some are um um

2390
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:13,600
and there's just incredible differences

2391
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:15,679
across the board with how they do get

2392
01:45:15,679 --> 01:45:19,520
maintained. So um but um again if you

2393
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:21,679
look at the whole universe of them you

2394
01:45:21,679 --> 01:45:23,360
know once upon a time we always talked

2395
01:45:23,360 --> 01:45:25,840
about them like every every mile of it

2396
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:28,000
was just you know turning to rubble.

2397
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,000
That that's not a good that's not an

2398
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:33,360
appropriate characterization. So,

2399
01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:34,550
>> thank you. I know we have a lot of

2400
01:45:34,550 --> 01:45:34,560
» thank you. I know we have a lot of

2401
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:36,400
people um who would like to speak on

2402
01:45:36,400 --> 01:45:38,400
this from the public. Uh I did want to

2403
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:43,520
just ask there's one about uh

2404
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,520
sorry, removing zoning and subdivision

2405
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:47,360
compliance standards for adjacent

2406
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:49,040
properties. I just didn't understand

2407
01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:52,639
that issue. Could somebody explain what

2408
01:45:52,639 --> 01:45:54,560
the problem is with the current one and

2409
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:57,760
what you're hoping to achieve?

2410
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:00,950
anyone

2411
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:02,639
» sa I think you're the default if nobody

2412
01:46:02,639 --> 01:46:03,440
else talks.

2413
01:46:03,440 --> 01:46:05,270
>> Yeah, I mean I was we did get the

2414
01:46:05,270 --> 01:46:05,280
» Yeah, I mean I was we did get the

2415
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:05,920
benefit of

2416
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:08,550
>> the might be able to chime in on that.

2417
01:46:08,550 --> 01:46:08,560
» the might be able to chime in on that.

2418
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:11,910
>> Uh so the initial development of this

2419
01:46:11,910 --> 01:46:11,920
» Uh so the initial development of this

2420
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:13,920
came from staff and was a framework that

2421
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:17,040
was presented to us. So um and we chimed

2422
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:19,760
in on it. So it may do you want the city

2423
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:21,360
engine it might be helpful for the mayor

2424
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:21,600
and

2425
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:22,470
>> does [clears throat] anybody know why

2426
01:46:22,470 --> 01:46:22,480
» does [clears throat] anybody know why

2427
01:46:22,480 --> 01:46:24,560
that is in my bullet point list

2428
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:26,950
>> to go through the rest of the ones we

2429
01:46:26,950 --> 01:46:26,960
» to go through the rest of the ones we

2430
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:29,040
haven't talked about

2431
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:30,390
>> and then we'll try and

2432
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:30,400
» and then we'll try and

2433
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:32,470
>> I have a guess

2434
01:46:32,470 --> 01:46:32,480
» I have a guess

2435
01:46:32,480 --> 01:46:35,600
which is that we measure setbacks from

2436
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:38,400
pavement and from roadway and so this

2437
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:43,199
might have to do with uh in the old pol

2438
01:46:43,199 --> 01:46:45,440
the existing policy requiring that

2439
01:46:45,440 --> 01:46:49,910
setbacks be adequate

2440
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:51,600
Can you explain what the sentence is

2441
01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:53,520
saying?

2442
01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:55,590
>> So it says private development on the

2443
01:46:55,590 --> 01:46:55,600
» So it says private development on the

2444
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:57,199
property fronting the road generally

2445
01:46:57,199 --> 01:46:58,960
meets zoning and subdivision standards

2446
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:02,000
applicable to property on public roads.

2447
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:04,719
Right? So if you are on a privately

2448
01:47:04,719 --> 01:47:06,159
maintained road and you would like to

2449
01:47:06,159 --> 01:47:08,000
seek city acceptance, you will be

2450
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:09,840
measured,

2451
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:12,560
you know, you will be tested against the

2452
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:14,159
standards we apply to publicly

2453
01:47:14,159 --> 01:47:17,119
maintained roads for zoning setbacks.

2454
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:18,950
>> And we don't think we should have that

2455
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:18,960
» And we don't think we should have that

2456
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:24,070
anymore because

2457
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:25,679
» you find it.

2458
01:47:25,679 --> 01:47:27,030
>> I'm just having a hard time giving

2459
01:47:27,030 --> 01:47:27,040
» I'm just having a hard time giving

2460
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:28,480
feedback when I literally don't

2461
01:47:28,480 --> 01:47:31,199
understand what is being proposed. Um,

2462
01:47:31,199 --> 01:47:31,920
and I

2463
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,870
>> mayor, what one thing is that the many

2464
01:47:34,870 --> 01:47:34,880
» mayor, what one thing is that the many

2465
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:37,600
of the private roads are much narrower

2466
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:40,960
than many of our public roads and so

2467
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:43,760
those setbacks would mean that you know

2468
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:45,280
you're in the middle of someone's home

2469
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:47,360
if you have to measure from the

2470
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:51,840
pavement. Um, so it disqualifies a lot

2471
01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:54,320
of private roads

2472
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:56,560
um because of the narrowness of many of

2473
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,440
them. And I and I think that was

2474
01:47:59,440 --> 01:48:01,920
overall, mayor. Um,

2475
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:03,760
one of the points that's come up over

2476
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:05,679
and over and over again is that

2477
01:48:05,679 --> 01:48:09,679
basically again the policy has always

2478
01:48:09,679 --> 01:48:12,159
been focused on

2479
01:48:12,159 --> 01:48:14,800
essentially holding the private roads to

2480
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:18,159
the very pinnacle standard that we would

2481
01:48:18,159 --> 01:48:20,960
hold a public road to. and that we have

2482
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:24,239
many many public roads in this community

2483
01:48:24,239 --> 01:48:27,040
that do not meet the standards that we

2484
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:29,600
are asking for in the existing policy.

2485
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:31,440
They just don't they're not as wide.

2486
01:48:31,440 --> 01:48:33,360
They're not you know they don't have the

2487
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:35,679
same characteristics

2488
01:48:35,679 --> 01:48:37,679
um you know evenly throughout the

2489
01:48:37,679 --> 01:48:39,600
community. Many of them were built at

2490
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:41,280
completely different times. Some of them

2491
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:43,600
were you know not particularly built to

2492
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:45,600
what I would even call you know real

2493
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:47,920
engineering standards at the time. And

2494
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:52,239
so, um, again, the the feedback over and

2495
01:48:52,239 --> 01:48:54,159
over for years has simply been that

2496
01:48:54,159 --> 01:48:56,400
we're trying to hold everything to do

2497
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:58,639
with the private roads at a level that's

2498
01:48:58,639 --> 01:49:01,040
here, whereas we have a lot of public

2499
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:03,119
roads that are down here. So, that

2500
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:04,400
that's what I think

2501
01:49:04,400 --> 01:49:05,430
>> that's very helpful. And I think what

2502
01:49:05,430 --> 01:49:05,440
» that's very helpful. And I think what

2503
01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:07,760
count I mean unless I'm seeing a

2504
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:10,719
different body language from our staff,

2505
01:49:10,719 --> 01:49:12,320
does that kind of make sense that what

2506
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:14,800
those setback rules were about was about

2507
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:17,119
kind of measuring from Center Road to

2508
01:49:17,119 --> 01:49:18,880
where development happened?

2509
01:49:18,880 --> 01:49:20,070
>> That's my understanding.

2510
01:49:20,070 --> 01:49:20,080
» That's my understanding.

2511
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:21,990
>> Thank you. I I literally just didn't

2512
01:49:21,990 --> 01:49:22,000
» Thank you. I I literally just didn't

2513
01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:24,960
understand what the words meant. So, um

2514
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:26,880
if there are there any other questions

2515
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:28,400
or should we turn this to public

2516
01:49:28,400 --> 01:49:30,239
comment?

2517
01:49:30,239 --> 01:49:32,800
Uh with that, I would love to uh let the

2518
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:36,000
public um opine. We got quite a few

2519
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:38,560
written comments that are all in the um

2520
01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:41,119
correspondence that's been shared. Um I

2521
01:49:41,119 --> 01:49:43,119
have one speaker card for Bob Finch. So

2522
01:49:43,119 --> 01:49:45,520
uh Bob, I'll ask you to come up and um

2523
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:47,520
it looks like Mr. Waroff might also like

2524
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:48,880
to speak and if anybody else would like

2525
01:49:48,880 --> 01:49:50,480
to speak, please come on up after Mr.

2526
01:49:50,480 --> 01:49:52,960
Kathy, after uh Mr. Waroff um we'll have

2527
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:56,719
you speak as well. Bob Finch and I'm on

2528
01:49:56,719 --> 01:50:02,870
board of the Wilder HOA.

2529
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,760
» Thank you. I'm Bob Finch and I'm on the

2530
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:09,840
board of the Wilder HOA where funds for

2531
01:50:09,840 --> 01:50:12,960
road maintenance are pre-colcted in our

2532
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:16,159
dues, but the dollars in that pot all

2533
01:50:16,159 --> 01:50:18,159
come from the pockets of the residents

2534
01:50:18,159 --> 01:50:21,679
just like on any other private road.

2535
01:50:21,679 --> 01:50:24,080
My comment is that I simply want to

2536
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:26,800
thank the infrastructure subcommittee

2537
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:30,080
for its good faith,

2538
01:50:30,080 --> 01:50:32,960
open-mindedness, and diligence over the

2539
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:35,440
last two years.

2540
01:50:35,440 --> 01:50:37,679
And I would add as a member of the

2541
01:50:37,679 --> 01:50:41,119
arendence for road fairness that we have

2542
01:50:41,119 --> 01:50:43,040
been working for nine years to get to

2543
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:44,880
this point.

2544
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:48,000
I urge the city council to approve the

2545
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:52,080
proposed framework as a framework. Thank

2546
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:54,960
you.

2547
01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:57,350
>> Uh thank you Mr. Waroff and then um

2548
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:57,360
» Uh thank you Mr. Waroff and then um

2549
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:59,600
Kathy Vinch will be after.

2550
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:01,669
>> Uh good evening Nick Warrenoff for the

2551
01:51:01,669 --> 01:51:01,679
» Uh good evening Nick Warrenoff for the

2552
01:51:01,679 --> 01:51:04,480
record. Initially I want to address Vice

2553
01:51:04,480 --> 01:51:08,000
Mayor G. That was the most one-sided

2554
01:51:08,000 --> 01:51:11,040
presentation of a complicated subject

2555
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:13,760
that I have ever heard and I think you

2556
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:17,119
should seriously consider stepping down

2557
01:51:17,119 --> 01:51:19,920
from the infrastructure committee. You

2558
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:21,840
know, there are two sides to the issue.

2559
01:51:21,840 --> 01:51:23,840
I don't have the time tonight or the

2560
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:25,679
inclination to go through the other

2561
01:51:25,679 --> 01:51:28,800
side, but to make such a one-sided

2562
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:32,560
presentation is a disservice to the body

2563
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:35,440
on which you sit sit.

2564
01:51:35,440 --> 01:51:38,400
Secondly, I want to address uh my

2565
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:41,280
friend, council member Hawky.

2566
01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:45,119
That was a very thorough, well-reasoned

2567
01:51:45,119 --> 01:51:48,320
and wellthoughtout presentation on the

2568
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:52,400
subject of the of conflict of interest.

2569
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:55,360
And I left my hat in the car, but if I

2570
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:57,679
were wearing it to keep my head warm, I

2571
01:51:57,679 --> 01:51:59,840
would tip my hat to you because it was

2572
01:51:59,840 --> 01:52:04,400
very thorough and carefully reasoned.

2573
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:08,000
However, and there's always a however,

2574
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:11,199
the very same city manager

2575
01:52:11,199 --> 01:52:13,840
some years ago

2576
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:17,599
when Eve Phillips was on the council and

2577
01:52:17,599 --> 01:52:21,360
was a candidate for reelection,

2578
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:24,159
the very same city attorney, if I said

2579
01:52:24,159 --> 01:52:26,800
city manager, I misspoke. I apologize.

2580
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:29,840
The very same city attorney

2581
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:32,800
publicly advised

2582
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:35,920
our good friend Eve Phillips that

2583
01:52:35,920 --> 01:52:39,520
because she lived on a private road, she

2584
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:43,679
could not participate at all in the

2585
01:52:43,679 --> 01:52:46,880
discussion before the council

2586
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:48,960
and Eve,

2587
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:51,440
Miss Phillips,

2588
01:52:51,440 --> 01:52:54,639
correctly followed the city attorney's

2589
01:52:54,639 --> 01:52:56,800
advice.

2590
01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:59,920
And these people who have been uh part

2591
01:52:59,920 --> 01:53:01,599
of that group, I forget what it's

2592
01:53:01,599 --> 01:53:03,760
called, fair roads or something. Maybe

2593
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:06,000
it's equitable roads these days. Who

2594
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:10,080
knows? But these people got together and

2595
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:13,920
publicly vilified her. Publicly vilified

2596
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:16,880
her because she followed the advice of

2597
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:19,040
the city attorney.

2598
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:21,280
and she and she was very pregnant with

2599
01:53:21,280 --> 01:53:24,000
her twins at that time and she couldn't

2600
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:26,239
even campaign

2601
01:53:26,239 --> 01:53:29,440
and and present her side that she had to

2602
01:53:29,440 --> 01:53:32,639
follow the advice of the city attorney

2603
01:53:32,639 --> 01:53:35,199
and it felt to me

2604
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:38,320
to go door to door and to post on social

2605
01:53:38,320 --> 01:53:42,239
media a defense of her. So, I'm sure

2606
01:53:42,239 --> 01:53:43,840
we're not going to hear from the city

2607
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:46,719
attorney some legal explanation of why

2608
01:53:46,719 --> 01:53:50,000
the two situations are different, but as

2609
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:52,800
long as we've had this historical exesis

2610
01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:56,159
about this issue, the record should

2611
01:53:56,159 --> 01:53:59,360
reflect my opinion, speaking as a

2612
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:01,599
private citizen and not a member of any

2613
01:54:01,599 --> 01:54:04,960
group, that Vice Mayor G has shown bias

2614
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:07,920
that disqualifies her from the committee

2615
01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:10,400
and that I deplore the inconsistent

2616
01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:12,159
positions.

2617
01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:15,520
taken by the

2618
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:18,560
city attorney. Thank you.

2619
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:20,550
>> Thank you. Uh are there any questions or

2620
01:54:20,550 --> 01:54:20,560
» Thank you. Uh are there any questions or

2621
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:22,800
comments before we go to the next public

2622
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:24,560
speaker?

2623
01:54:24,560 --> 01:54:26,390
>> I just want to thank the vice mayor for

2624
01:54:26,390 --> 01:54:26,400
» I just want to thank the vice mayor for

2625
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:28,480
her earlier comments and thank the city

2626
01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:30,960
attorney for her continued expert

2627
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:32,560
advice.

2628
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,280
Um I I do have one comment which is the

2629
01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:38,400
uh as I understood the conflict issue as

2630
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:41,440
the person running the meeting if the

2631
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:44,880
HOAs are potentially going to be counted

2632
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:48,560
that essentially dilutes the uh impact

2633
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:50,880
of the issue and makes it more general

2634
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:53,760
when we are talking about private roads

2635
01:54:53,760 --> 01:54:57,119
without including the HOA included

2636
01:54:57,119 --> 01:54:59,280
units. That would be a conflict and

2637
01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:01,360
council member Hawky will recuse herself

2638
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:03,119
the same as E. Phillips did. So that's

2639
01:55:03,119 --> 01:55:05,520
not the city attorney speaking, but

2640
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:07,599
that's how I went into this meeting

2641
01:55:07,599 --> 01:55:09,360
understanding the way we should run the

2642
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:11,520
program. Uh, and Kathy, thank you for

2643
01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:13,440
waiting. Uh, Kathy Finch, please. Uh,

2644
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:16,560
yes, my name is Kathy Finch, and first I

2645
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:18,480
want to thank the infrastructure

2646
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:23,679
subcommittee for um, well making 20% of

2647
01:55:23,679 --> 01:55:26,159
the city just feel included by being

2648
01:55:26,159 --> 01:55:28,000
part of the study. you know, I mean, I

2649
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:30,880
just think it's wonderful that um you

2650
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:34,000
can now and we can all now see the city

2651
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:35,840
as a whole, you know, all of the

2652
01:55:35,840 --> 01:55:37,520
streets, whether they're public or

2653
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:38,719
private, whether you're going to

2654
01:55:38,719 --> 01:55:41,040
maintain them or not, to see where they

2655
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:43,440
stand. Same thing with public drains. I

2656
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:46,159
think it's just such an important issue.

2657
01:55:46,159 --> 01:55:49,440
Um never mind, you know, the financing

2658
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:52,880
of what's going to come. Uh it just, you

2659
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:54,960
know, makes us feel part of the city and

2660
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:58,480
be included. Um and I wanted to only

2661
01:55:58,480 --> 01:56:01,599
address um the first speaker who seemed

2662
01:56:01,599 --> 01:56:04,400
to think that you know you were taking

2663
01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:08,239
over control of of private roads um

2664
01:56:08,239 --> 01:56:11,280
which I know this is just a framework uh

2665
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,880
uh at this point but um he said that

2666
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:17,840
other East Bay cities you know it should

2667
01:56:17,840 --> 01:56:19,360
be a red flag that all these other

2668
01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:22,159
Eastbay cities have decided not to do

2669
01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:25,920
anything about private roads. Um but as

2670
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:31,040
um Vice Mayor um uh G noted, Arinda is

2671
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:33,440
really different. Um it's unique in as

2672
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:37,440
much as we've got um 20 to 22% of the

2673
01:56:37,440 --> 01:56:41,599
city on private roads. And you know, I

2674
01:56:41,599 --> 01:56:43,280
mean, it's a really large group of

2675
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:46,320
people. Uh the other thing that I wanted

2676
01:56:46,320 --> 01:56:49,280
to comment on is that the city itself

2677
01:56:49,280 --> 01:56:52,719
required many of us to be on private

2678
01:56:52,719 --> 01:56:54,480
streets because there wasn't enough

2679
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:56,719
money um at the time like 20 years ago

2680
01:56:56,719 --> 01:57:00,480
when Wilder was being considered. Um you

2681
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:03,199
didn't have money to um maintain our

2682
01:57:03,199 --> 01:57:06,719
streets. So, it's unusual, I think, that

2683
01:57:06,719 --> 01:57:10,960
a city says you must um be private,

2684
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:12,719
that, you know, we are requiring you to

2685
01:57:12,719 --> 01:57:15,840
be private. And um some people in our

2686
01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:17,599
subdivision have said things like, you

2687
01:57:17,599 --> 01:57:20,080
know, it's weird. I mean, what if they

2688
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:22,159
said, "Okay, you can live here, but you

2689
01:57:22,159 --> 01:57:24,239
can't go to the public schools here."

2690
01:57:24,239 --> 01:57:28,000
You know, I mean, they feel cut out um

2691
01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:30,639
in just that way. So, um, because they

2692
01:57:30,639 --> 01:57:32,239
were required and because it's such a

2693
01:57:32,239 --> 01:57:35,040
large proportion of our members and also

2694
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:38,080
because the bond issues that the city

2695
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:42,239
has passed, um, they were fine when they

2696
01:57:42,239 --> 01:57:45,599
were requiring everybody to pay for uh,

2697
01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:48,480
arterials and collectors. But when they

2698
01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:51,840
went to require people to pay for

2699
01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:54,639
residential maintenance but barred

2700
01:57:54,639 --> 01:57:57,520
private street residents from that same

2701
01:57:57,520 --> 01:58:02,320
benefit of their tax dollars and also

2702
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:04,480
when they said that the private road

2703
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:06,000
residents

2704
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:09,599
um cannot benefit from the city's road

2705
01:58:09,599 --> 01:58:12,239
damage impact fees that all of us pay.

2706
01:58:12,239 --> 01:58:14,639
you know, those are um things that I

2707
01:58:14,639 --> 01:58:18,000
don't believe are uh city are citywide

2708
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:21,040
or or um countywide. So, I think unique

2709
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:23,599
we're in a unique um situation. Thank

2710
01:58:23,599 --> 01:58:24,560
you.

2711
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:26,790
>> Thank you very much. And uh Joe, I think

2712
01:58:26,790 --> 01:58:26,800
» Thank you very much. And uh Joe, I think

2713
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:28,239
it's Bowman. Please correct me if I

2714
01:58:28,239 --> 01:58:29,920
mispronounced, but uh we have one more

2715
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:31,119
speaker card and then we'll just see if

2716
01:58:31,119 --> 01:58:36,229
anybody else would like to speak.

2717
01:58:36,239 --> 01:58:38,080
» Yes, my name is Joe Bowman. I'm a

2718
01:58:38,080 --> 01:58:40,639
resident of the um Bayage Homeowners

2719
01:58:40,639 --> 01:58:42,880
Association where I've been a resident

2720
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:45,172
for about 30 years.

2721
01:58:45,172 --> 01:58:47,119
[clears throat] Um I appreciated all the

2722
01:58:47,119 --> 01:58:48,800
work that's gone into the framework.

2723
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:53,679
We've been observing along the way. Um

2724
01:58:53,679 --> 01:58:56,960
the framework as I read it really is is

2725
01:58:56,960 --> 01:58:59,199
an eitheror framework and maybe that's

2726
01:58:59,199 --> 01:59:01,599
where it needs to be at this stage. It's

2727
01:59:01,599 --> 01:59:06,639
it's either uh you are going to um as

2728
01:59:06,639 --> 01:59:09,760
either a a homeowners association or

2729
01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:13,119
members of private births either opt in

2730
01:59:13,119 --> 01:59:16,400
to um be considered for the city's

2731
01:59:16,400 --> 01:59:19,920
services or stay out. And I'd simply

2732
01:59:19,920 --> 01:59:22,159
like to suggest that there's possibly

2733
01:59:22,159 --> 01:59:26,320
another path that should be included uh

2734
01:59:26,320 --> 01:59:29,520
if not in the detail maybe the framework

2735
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:32,639
and that's uh to take some model that

2736
01:59:32,639 --> 01:59:35,040
like our homeowners associate

2737
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:37,119
association has done is I think it's

2738
01:59:37,119 --> 01:59:38,960
been on the scale as just recently

2739
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:42,239
described as having better than average

2740
01:59:42,239 --> 01:59:45,040
roads by our self-maintenance

2741
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:48,000
and it would be beneficial to encourage

2742
01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:50,639
either homeowners ers associations or

2743
01:59:50,639 --> 01:59:54,080
groups of homeowners to maintain on

2744
01:59:54,080 --> 01:59:57,199
their own but be given some form of

2745
01:59:57,199 --> 02:00:00,239
support to be able to do that. And I did

2746
02:00:00,239 --> 02:00:03,040
not know about the San Andelmo model or

2747
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:04,960
even the Arena Woods model before coming

2748
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:09,520
up here, but uh I'd simply ask that the

2749
02:00:09,520 --> 02:00:11,440
that [clears throat] the subcommittee

2750
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:13,679
take that into consideration before the

2751
02:00:13,679 --> 02:00:16,320
framework is adopted.

2752
02:00:16,320 --> 02:00:20,880
Thank you. Um I would like to ask if

2753
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:22,159
there's anybody else from the public who

2754
02:00:22,159 --> 02:00:24,000
would like to speak before we close the

2755
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:26,639
public portion.

2756
02:00:26,639 --> 02:00:29,840
Um and then I believe the best way to do

2757
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:32,000
this is to talk about the HOA inclusion

2758
02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:34,719
or not first because that will determine

2759
02:00:34,719 --> 02:00:36,400
uh council member Hawky's additional

2760
02:00:36,400 --> 02:00:39,280
participation. So we will ask you to um

2761
02:00:39,280 --> 02:00:42,000
pop off the Zoom uh please and we will

2762
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:42,400
have

2763
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:43,189
>> Thank you.

2764
02:00:43,189 --> 02:00:43,199
» Thank you.

2765
02:00:43,199 --> 02:00:44,790
>> the city clerk will text you when it's

2766
02:00:44,790 --> 02:00:44,800
» the city clerk will text you when it's

2767
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:46,560
time to dial back in.

2768
02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:53,669
>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

2769
02:00:53,679 --> 02:00:56,159
» So, as included in the framework, uh

2770
02:00:56,159 --> 02:00:58,639
currently 59-18

2771
02:00:58,639 --> 02:01:03,760
excludes HOAs from participating in any

2772
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:06,719
um process to move towards public

2773
02:01:06,719 --> 02:01:10,000
acceptance. And so I think this is um I

2774
02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:12,639
think a key piece of any changes that

2775
02:01:12,639 --> 02:01:16,560
could be made to uh any program that the

2776
02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:19,840
city would offer in the future. Uh so I

2777
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:21,679
think that's

2778
02:01:21,679 --> 02:01:23,520
much of what infrastructure committee

2779
02:01:23,520 --> 02:01:25,119
members were hearing at those meetings

2780
02:01:25,119 --> 02:01:27,599
was around I mean there's a large group

2781
02:01:27,599 --> 02:01:30,320
of folks that were living in HOA areas

2782
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:32,239
not just wilder but other areas as well

2783
02:01:32,239 --> 02:01:34,639
that have uh hosienda streets the roads

2784
02:01:34,639 --> 02:01:36,400
of hosienda I think was another one as

2785
02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:40,159
well. Um, so it was really, oh, I'm

2786
02:01:40,159 --> 02:01:42,880
happy to stop talking, [laughter]

2787
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:46,800
very happy. Um, to to really just have a

2788
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:49,199
conversation about, you know, if there

2789
02:01:49,199 --> 02:01:53,040
is a desire to potentially include them,

2790
02:01:53,040 --> 02:01:55,599
that doesn't mean yes, the answers

2791
02:01:55,599 --> 02:01:57,760
tonight. But if there is a desire to do

2792
02:01:57,760 --> 02:02:00,719
that, that would allow staff to go back

2793
02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:02,560
and sharpen their pencils about impact,

2794
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:04,800
right? What does the impact look like?

2795
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:07,920
if um for example the Wilder community

2796
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:10,000
came forward and said we'd like all of

2797
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:12,800
our streets to be public and you know

2798
02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:14,400
what sort of financial impact that could

2799
02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:15,840
have to our road maintenance program

2800
02:02:15,840 --> 02:02:18,320
over time. So I mean we could we just

2801
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:20,639
didn't want to as staff spend time

2802
02:02:20,639 --> 02:02:22,639
researching all these issues unless we

2803
02:02:22,639 --> 02:02:24,960
had some consensus amongst the council.

2804
02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:26,560
These are the issues you want us to

2805
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:29,119
research. So um I'm going to turn it

2806
02:02:29,119 --> 02:02:31,679
back over to the three of you to discuss

2807
02:02:31,679 --> 02:02:34,560
and give us some feedback on that.

2808
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:36,719
If I may, because I'm I'm talking to two

2809
02:02:36,719 --> 02:02:38,000
people who are already sort of

2810
02:02:38,000 --> 02:02:39,920
advocating for [laughter]

2811
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,800
going to be a very short discussion. Um,

2812
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:44,719
I'd like to frame this because it's an

2813
02:02:44,719 --> 02:02:46,080
issue I thought about a lot and I'd

2814
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:48,000
actually like to credit both Bob and

2815
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:50,880
Kathy Finch right when I got elected. um

2816
02:02:50,880 --> 02:02:53,040
we had a a call to talk about private

2817
02:02:53,040 --> 02:02:55,520
roads and I was just listening to these

2818
02:02:55,520 --> 02:02:56,880
issues for the first time, but they

2819
02:02:56,880 --> 02:03:01,840
really opened my mind um about the the

2820
02:03:01,840 --> 02:03:03,360
considerations to get beyond the

2821
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:08,400
knee-jerk Prop 13 argument. Um

2822
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:10,960
you know, the way I think about HOAs is

2823
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:14,320
they do have well-maintained roads. They

2824
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:16,239
do have assessments that have already

2825
02:03:16,239 --> 02:03:18,159
been collected. So, they've got reserves

2826
02:03:18,159 --> 02:03:21,040
and after some number of decades, at

2827
02:03:21,040 --> 02:03:23,280
what point does a subdivision just

2828
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:25,440
become part of the city and you need to

2829
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:27,119
stop treating it like the new

2830
02:03:27,119 --> 02:03:31,599
neighborhood? That said, um the reason

2831
02:03:31,599 --> 02:03:34,639
they were excluded is that Prop 13 is so

2832
02:03:34,639 --> 02:03:36,239
different from the the way the rest of

2833
02:03:36,239 --> 02:03:38,800
the country operates with subdivisions

2834
02:03:38,800 --> 02:03:41,199
because we

2835
02:03:41,199 --> 02:03:43,589
>> we cannot

2836
02:03:43,589 --> 02:03:43,599
» we cannot

2837
02:03:43,599 --> 02:03:46,320
uh collect assessments in more you know

2838
02:03:46,320 --> 02:03:48,800
the the costs go up with inflation and

2839
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:50,400
our ability to collect against those

2840
02:03:50,400 --> 02:03:53,679
costs is limited at that 2% as long as

2841
02:03:53,679 --> 02:03:56,080
they stay in their HOAs.

2842
02:03:56,080 --> 02:03:59,760
their assessments allow them to cover

2843
02:03:59,760 --> 02:04:02,159
costs with assessments that actually

2844
02:04:02,159 --> 02:04:04,719
keep pace with inflation. And that is a

2845
02:04:04,719 --> 02:04:08,239
a really fundamental imbalance that we

2846
02:04:08,239 --> 02:04:11,599
cannot correct for the non-HOAs, but you

2847
02:04:11,599 --> 02:04:15,119
can correct inside them. And so the the

2848
02:04:15,119 --> 02:04:17,679
first thing I would like to hear um the

2849
02:04:17,679 --> 02:04:20,239
subcommittee address is do you

2850
02:04:20,239 --> 02:04:22,639
affirmatively advocate including HOA?

2851
02:04:22,639 --> 02:04:23,920
Have you formed your own position? And

2852
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:26,080
if so, how do you deal with that

2853
02:04:26,080 --> 02:04:32,870
problem?

2854
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:36,911
» I guess I'll just chime in. Uh

2855
02:04:36,911 --> 02:04:39,910
[sighs and gasps]

2856
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:42,000
the thought process,

2857
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:43,440
I don't know that I can address your

2858
02:04:43,440 --> 02:04:44,880
exact question because it goes to the

2859
02:04:44,880 --> 02:04:47,920
financing and Prop 13. And yes, this is

2860
02:04:47,920 --> 02:04:51,199
why when you walk around Florida,

2861
02:04:51,199 --> 02:04:53,679
there's roadways and infrastructure. And

2862
02:04:53,679 --> 02:04:56,400
I look at their taxes and our taxes and

2863
02:04:56,400 --> 02:04:58,000
you know, it doesn't make a lot of

2864
02:04:58,000 --> 02:05:00,719
sense, but we have Prop 13. Um, that is

2865
02:05:00,719 --> 02:05:03,920
true. But I will just address why I was

2866
02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:05,360
going to mention they don't have a state

2867
02:05:05,360 --> 02:05:07,199
income tax and we do,

2868
02:05:07,199 --> 02:05:09,589
>> right? But still, anyway, there's a lot

2869
02:05:09,589 --> 02:05:09,599
» right? But still, anyway, there's a lot

2870
02:05:09,599 --> 02:05:13,360
of other things. But anyway, um

2871
02:05:13,360 --> 02:05:17,520
the prior resolution has or the existing

2872
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:19,360
resolution I'm saying because we still

2873
02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:24,239
have this this is still our our um says

2874
02:05:24,239 --> 02:05:27,119
um acceptance of existing privately

2875
02:05:27,119 --> 02:05:28,639
maintained subject to the following

2876
02:05:28,639 --> 02:05:31,360
criteria. One says, "Except where the

2877
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:33,199
city council approves an exception,

2878
02:05:33,199 --> 02:05:34,800
private roads for which a homeowners

2879
02:05:34,800 --> 02:05:36,639
association or similar entity was

2880
02:05:36,639 --> 02:05:39,040
established for subdivision street

2881
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:42,480
ownership maintenance are not eligible

2882
02:05:42,480 --> 02:05:47,119
for acceptance by the city. Given the

2883
02:05:47,119 --> 02:05:50,400
number of residents who have been

2884
02:05:50,400 --> 02:05:52,400
participating for the last year and a

2885
02:05:52,400 --> 02:05:54,239
half or however long it's been in this

2886
02:05:54,239 --> 02:05:58,080
in the infrastructure subcommittee who

2887
02:05:58,080 --> 02:06:01,599
either are members of an HOA or you know

2888
02:06:01,599 --> 02:06:05,360
live in an HOA and and

2889
02:06:05,360 --> 02:06:08,000
also even other residents who aren't

2890
02:06:08,000 --> 02:06:10,239
part of an HOA who have who have

2891
02:06:10,239 --> 02:06:12,080
expressed

2892
02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:15,990
um

2893
02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:18,800
some support that members of an HOA

2894
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:22,159
should I to me including this in the

2895
02:06:22,159 --> 02:06:23,679
framework

2896
02:06:23,679 --> 02:06:27,520
is to me taking the position that HOAs

2897
02:06:27,520 --> 02:06:31,920
should not uniformly be excluded from

2898
02:06:31,920 --> 02:06:34,400
this process right to the extent we're

2899
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:36,159
trying to adoption

2900
02:06:36,159 --> 02:06:38,950
>> cannot be the criteria if you can't

2901
02:06:38,950 --> 02:06:38,960
» cannot be the criteria if you can't

2902
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:41,040
address the financial

2903
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:42,880
reason why they were excluded to begin

2904
02:06:42,880 --> 02:06:44,400
with. And I'm sorry, it's so hard to

2905
02:06:44,400 --> 02:06:45,360
look both ways.

2906
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:46,550
>> No, no, it's I mean,

2907
02:06:46,550 --> 02:06:46,560
» No, no, it's I mean,

2908
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:49,270
>> no. Well, let let me add one thing that

2909
02:06:49,270 --> 02:06:49,280
» no. Well, let let me add one thing that

2910
02:06:49,280 --> 02:06:52,400
and again, you know, staff can can

2911
02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:54,400
provide you with a lot more detail, but

2912
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:56,560
again, remember, it's not that we don't

2913
02:06:56,560 --> 02:06:59,679
take any of our uh road and

2914
02:06:59,679 --> 02:07:01,920
infrastructure funding from our property

2915
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:05,920
taxes. We do, but the reality is is our

2916
02:07:05,920 --> 02:07:08,480
transportation funding comes from a

2917
02:07:08,480 --> 02:07:11,840
multitude of sources. And it's not all

2918
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:16,159
based on um on uh our property taxes.

2919
02:07:16,159 --> 02:07:18,400
Okay? So remember that we've we've had

2920
02:07:18,400 --> 02:07:20,480
road bonds, we have sales tax, we have

2921
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:22,960
measure R, we have return to source from

2922
02:07:22,960 --> 02:07:25,840
our county sales taxes, we have state of

2923
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:29,520
California grants and and um I mean the

2924
02:07:29,520 --> 02:07:32,079
the problem with transportation and um

2925
02:07:32,079 --> 02:07:34,800
I'm looking at Scott and SA there there

2926
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:36,480
are days when I say I should have stayed

2927
02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:38,320
in water and wastewater because it's a

2928
02:07:38,320 --> 02:07:41,199
lot easier. Um, transportation is a

2929
02:07:41,199 --> 02:07:42,960
nightmare and you have to have five

2930
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:45,199
kinds of colors of money to fund

2931
02:07:45,199 --> 02:07:47,280
anything these days and it's just

2932
02:07:47,280 --> 02:07:49,599
getting worse, not better. So, so

2933
02:07:49,599 --> 02:07:52,159
remember that a as well as there's a

2934
02:07:52,159 --> 02:07:54,079
whole multitude of other issues you're

2935
02:07:54,079 --> 02:07:55,679
not raising when it comes to the

2936
02:07:55,679 --> 02:07:58,000
difference between private and public.

2937
02:07:58,000 --> 02:08:00,800
uh public is subject to all of the you

2938
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:03,199
know public works requirements and you

2939
02:08:03,199 --> 02:08:06,719
know quite frankly private HOAs can

2940
02:08:06,719 --> 02:08:08,560
maintain their roads cheaper than the

2941
02:08:08,560 --> 02:08:11,599
public can. That's just a fact. Um but

2942
02:08:11,599 --> 02:08:13,440
that doesn't again that's not trying to

2943
02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:15,520
take this into consideration. This is

2944
02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:17,599
trying to, as our city manager said,

2945
02:08:17,599 --> 02:08:19,199
this is trying to move toward a tonal

2946
02:08:19,199 --> 02:08:22,320
shift of we've had a lot of division in

2947
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:24,800
the community already over this topic in

2948
02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:28,079
the broadest sense. And then to me right

2949
02:08:28,079 --> 02:08:30,079
now, it makes no sense trying to create

2950
02:08:30,079 --> 02:08:32,639
a new framework that we would still sort

2951
02:08:32,639 --> 02:08:36,480
of try to separate out another group of

2952
02:08:36,480 --> 02:08:38,719
people that represents a very, you know,

2953
02:08:38,719 --> 02:08:41,280
broad swath of our community. and and

2954
02:08:41,280 --> 02:08:43,599
there are different kinds of HOAs uh

2955
02:08:43,599 --> 02:08:46,400
within our community as well. So again,

2956
02:08:46,400 --> 02:08:49,440
they're not one sizefits-all. So I I

2957
02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:51,599
just in the broadest sense of again this

2958
02:08:51,599 --> 02:08:54,320
being a framework rather than a lot of

2959
02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:56,239
details,

2960
02:08:56,239 --> 02:08:58,079
I don't see the logic of what we're

2961
02:08:58,079 --> 02:09:00,400
trying to accomplish to still want to

2962
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:02,960
segregate the HOAs out and say, gee, you

2963
02:09:02,960 --> 02:09:05,360
can't participate because again, that

2964
02:09:05,360 --> 02:09:09,199
just affects an awful lot of of people.

2965
02:09:09,199 --> 02:09:12,000
How can you say you don't see the logic

2966
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:16,079
when private homeowners associations can

2967
02:09:16,079 --> 02:09:19,199
assess consistent with inflation and the

2968
02:09:19,199 --> 02:09:21,760
rest of the city cannot? I mean to lose

2969
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:25,280
the ability to assess commensurate with

2970
02:09:25,280 --> 02:09:28,320
the need is huge. [snorts]

2971
02:09:28,320 --> 02:09:31,040
And the prior city manager, you know,

2972
02:09:31,040 --> 02:09:33,840
used to always say we could even if we

2973
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:35,840
look at the private road issue, we can

2974
02:09:35,840 --> 02:09:39,679
never consider letting HOAs in because

2975
02:09:39,679 --> 02:09:41,360
it would blow up the budget so

2976
02:09:41,360 --> 02:09:44,560
dramatically to have the same Prop 13

2977
02:09:44,560 --> 02:09:47,360
constraints apply to an additional 20%

2978
02:09:47,360 --> 02:09:49,199
of roads. And I know they're in good

2979
02:09:49,199 --> 02:09:53,360
condition today, but we're talking about

2980
02:09:53,360 --> 02:09:55,920
a long long-term policy change. And I

2981
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:58,159
just I am concerned that the arguments

2982
02:09:58,159 --> 02:10:00,639
I'm hearing are well gosh they really

2983
02:10:00,639 --> 02:10:02,880
are participating and we should include

2984
02:10:02,880 --> 02:10:04,560
them. This is not about inclusiveness.

2985
02:10:04,560 --> 02:10:08,079
It is about an a financial burden the

2986
02:10:08,079 --> 02:10:11,679
city could not bear. And if we say that

2987
02:10:11,679 --> 02:10:13,280
we are going to change the framework to

2988
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:15,360
allow HOAs I think it would be

2989
02:10:15,360 --> 02:10:17,920
incredibly naive to pretend like but we

2990
02:10:17,920 --> 02:10:19,599
might not actually. I mean, I think if

2991
02:10:19,599 --> 02:10:21,520
you're going to say HOAs can be part of

2992
02:10:21,520 --> 02:10:25,840
it, we must be prepared to design a

2993
02:10:25,840 --> 02:10:28,880
program that affirmatively

2994
02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:31,679
includes and addresses and figures it

2995
02:10:31,679 --> 02:10:34,560
out, which I'm still open-minded, but

2996
02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:36,320
I'm not hearing any arguments other than

2997
02:10:36,320 --> 02:10:38,400
inclusivity

2998
02:10:38,400 --> 02:10:42,880
to deal with the big problem. Well,

2999
02:10:42,880 --> 02:10:46,079
there's no doubt that over time

3000
02:10:46,079 --> 02:10:48,800
there's an enormous amount of financial,

3001
02:10:48,800 --> 02:10:51,920
you know,

3002
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:54,800
lens that has to be implied to anything

3003
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:58,880
that comes up. But remember, I I I

3004
02:10:58,880 --> 02:11:00,480
sort of interpret that the way you're

3005
02:11:00,480 --> 02:11:02,880
seeing this is this means that all of

3006
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:05,440
our private roads are are immediately

3007
02:11:05,440 --> 02:11:07,040
going to become public or going to

3008
02:11:07,040 --> 02:11:09,360
immediately all apply to become public.

3009
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:10,880
And that's not what the framework and

3010
02:11:10,880 --> 02:11:14,320
the policy is in is intended to do. Some

3011
02:11:14,320 --> 02:11:16,079
people feel in the community feel really

3012
02:11:16,079 --> 02:11:17,520
strongly that they want to do that.

3013
02:11:17,520 --> 02:11:18,639
Others don't.

3014
02:11:18,639 --> 02:11:20,390
>> But could you address that comment

3015
02:11:20,390 --> 02:11:20,400
» But could you address that comment

3016
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:22,880
specifically to the HOAs that are

3017
02:11:22,880 --> 02:11:26,560
participating like Wilder, Arinda Woods,

3018
02:11:26,560 --> 02:11:28,239
Arinda Grove, the kind of the three

3019
02:11:28,239 --> 02:11:30,320
bigger ones? Which of those do you

3020
02:11:30,320 --> 02:11:32,079
expect in and I don't mean in the first

3021
02:11:32,079 --> 02:11:36,000
six months but in short order to uh

3022
02:11:36,000 --> 02:11:40,079
request a process for integration?

3023
02:11:40,079 --> 02:11:42,310
>> I I I don't honestly know Madame Mayor.

3024
02:11:42,310 --> 02:11:42,320
» I I I don't honestly know Madame Mayor.

3025
02:11:42,320 --> 02:11:44,719
I mean we don't know because there are

3026
02:11:44,719 --> 02:11:46,320
so many other details of this that

3027
02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:48,320
aren't outlined at this point. you know,

3028
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:51,040
we haven't really this sort of tonal

3029
02:11:51,040 --> 02:11:53,679
shift of, you know, we could get there

3030
02:11:53,679 --> 02:11:56,239
instead of continuing to say, you know,

3031
02:11:56,239 --> 02:11:58,320
no, we can't look at our infrastructure

3032
02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:02,320
in a more holistic manner is is

3033
02:12:02,320 --> 02:12:04,560
relatively new. There's a lot of devil

3034
02:12:04,560 --> 02:12:07,679
in the details that's not here yet, but

3035
02:12:07,679 --> 02:12:08,400
um

3036
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:11,109
>> and and this isn't

3037
02:12:11,109 --> 02:12:11,119
» and and this isn't

3038
02:12:11,119 --> 02:12:14,239
okay. this

3039
02:12:14,239 --> 02:12:19,119
when when you're asking about I I feel

3040
02:12:19,119 --> 02:12:22,079
like the

3041
02:12:22,079 --> 02:12:24,639
including them in the framework

3042
02:12:24,639 --> 02:12:28,159
or not excluding them in the framework

3043
02:12:28,159 --> 02:12:30,639
does not necessarily mean that they're

3044
02:12:30,639 --> 02:12:33,280
going to apply for and be accepted as

3045
02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:36,159
public roads in the next when you say in

3046
02:12:36,159 --> 02:12:37,840
short order I don't know what that I

3047
02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:41,440
view this pro I view this this issue

3048
02:12:41,440 --> 02:12:44,159
as a

3049
02:12:44,159 --> 02:12:47,360
many year issue for us to resolve.

3050
02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:50,159
This is another step there. We simply

3051
02:12:50,159 --> 02:12:53,599
don't have the finances to allow all

3052
02:12:53,599 --> 02:12:56,960
these HOAs immediately to become public

3053
02:12:56,960 --> 02:12:59,440
roads. We just don't have the budget

3054
02:12:59,440 --> 02:13:03,760
now. However, to have on paper a

3055
02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:07,360
resolution that excludes them from any

3056
02:13:07,360 --> 02:13:09,840
possible path in the future to me is the

3057
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:11,520
problem. That's what we're doing here.

3058
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:14,159
we're not necessarily taking the next

3059
02:13:14,159 --> 02:13:17,119
step in my mind and I'll ask you know to

3060
02:13:17,119 --> 02:13:20,960
correct me if I'm wrong that

3061
02:13:20,960 --> 02:13:22,800
that there will be this immediate

3062
02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:27,840
acceptance of you know all HOA roads or

3063
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:30,742
even large HOAs cuz it it

3064
02:13:30,742 --> 02:13:32,480
[clears throat]

3065
02:13:32,480 --> 02:13:36,000
again we need to proceed with you know

3066
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:37,520
stepby-step

3067
02:13:37,520 --> 02:13:40,239
careful nuanced solutions not an

3068
02:13:40,239 --> 02:13:41,679
overnight

3069
02:13:41,679 --> 02:13:45,199
dramatic sea change where we all became

3070
02:13:45,199 --> 02:13:46,800
public roads. I mean, if we wanted to

3071
02:13:46,800 --> 02:13:49,920
self- tax ourselves, you know, 5% sales

3072
02:13:49,920 --> 02:13:52,079
tax, we could probably do it, but we we

3073
02:13:52,079 --> 02:13:53,840
can't do it unless we we did that. And

3074
02:13:53,840 --> 02:13:55,360
we're not I'm not by any means

3075
02:13:55,360 --> 02:13:57,280
suggesting we do that. Our residents

3076
02:13:57,280 --> 02:13:58,880
wouldn't want it. So, you said was super

3077
02:13:58,880 --> 02:14:00,880
helpful. It may again, I think the idea

3078
02:14:00,880 --> 02:14:02,320
is we're kind of workshopping here and

3079
02:14:02,320 --> 02:14:05,040
and without two of our five, so it's,

3080
02:14:05,040 --> 02:14:07,830
>> you know, get what you pay for. Um, but

3081
02:14:07,830 --> 02:14:07,840
» you know, get what you pay for. Um, but

3082
02:14:07,840 --> 02:14:09,599
what you said about a framework I think

3083
02:14:09,599 --> 02:14:12,239
was incredibly helpful because and we'll

3084
02:14:12,239 --> 02:14:14,800
kind of pull it back up. Um, I had two

3085
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:16,960
comments. One is when I was reading this

3086
02:14:16,960 --> 02:14:18,560
before the meeting was it was it feels

3087
02:14:18,560 --> 02:14:20,719
kind of touchyfey, right? This is a tone

3088
02:14:20,719 --> 02:14:23,520
reset where we want to shift the

3089
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:26,000
conversation which would be fine if you

3090
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:29,040
weren't I I actually think the decision

3091
02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:31,520
whether or not to include HOAs is the

3092
02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:33,440
single most important fork in the road

3093
02:14:33,440 --> 02:14:34,480
we're going to face in this

3094
02:14:34,480 --> 02:14:36,800
conversation. And I don't want to make

3095
02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:38,159
light of it and just say it's a tone

3096
02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:42,639
shift. It's a monumental potential

3097
02:14:42,639 --> 02:14:46,159
fiscal change and I'm still open to it.

3098
02:14:46,159 --> 02:14:47,360
So I'm not

3099
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:50,790
>> I'm not saying we can never but I am

3100
02:14:50,790 --> 02:14:50,800
» I'm not saying we can never but I am

3101
02:14:50,800 --> 02:14:53,599
saying that is no tone shift. That is a

3102
02:14:53,599 --> 02:14:58,560
massive policy decision that we cannot

3103
02:14:58,560 --> 02:15:01,040
make without looking at how you pay for

3104
02:15:01,040 --> 02:15:05,679
it. That is the decision. So, um, I

3105
02:15:05,679 --> 02:15:08,560
actually really liked what I heard from

3106
02:15:08,560 --> 02:15:10,159
the Finches when I was first elected

3107
02:15:10,159 --> 02:15:13,280
about the the fact that their roads are

3108
02:15:13,280 --> 02:15:15,280
really wellmaintained and we are solving

3109
02:15:15,280 --> 02:15:18,719
this for the life of the city and they

3110
02:15:18,719 --> 02:15:20,960
do have pretty good reserves already.

3111
02:15:20,960 --> 02:15:24,960
So, I I still would like to explore HOA

3112
02:15:24,960 --> 02:15:29,360
solutions. However, semicolon however

3113
02:15:29,360 --> 02:15:32,480
inside the 5918 framework I think is the

3114
02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:34,400
wrong place to do it because the 5918

3115
02:15:34,400 --> 02:15:37,119
framework is an actual ordinance that

3116
02:15:37,119 --> 02:15:39,520
says we shall

3117
02:15:39,520 --> 02:15:43,040
uh you know this is how we will adopt p

3118
02:15:43,040 --> 02:15:44,560
uh private roads into the public road

3119
02:15:44,560 --> 02:15:48,079
system. And I when you say framework my

3120
02:15:48,079 --> 02:15:49,840
other note here was like it's like

3121
02:15:49,840 --> 02:15:52,320
tennis without a net, right? We're gonna

3122
02:15:52,320 --> 02:15:53,760
have a framework and it's going to have

3123
02:15:53,760 --> 02:15:56,639
no rules. That's not a framework. The

3124
02:15:56,639 --> 02:16:00,159
framework is the 5918 ordinance, which

3125
02:16:00,159 --> 02:16:03,199
is an existing law, which I agree

3126
02:16:03,199 --> 02:16:07,840
um isn't going to work without some

3127
02:16:07,840 --> 02:16:10,880
uh some modifications that make it work.

3128
02:16:10,880 --> 02:16:12,159
But when I think about what the

3129
02:16:12,159 --> 02:16:15,119
infrastructure subcommittee is doing,

3130
02:16:15,119 --> 02:16:18,400
it's so much more than 5918. 5918 is not

3131
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:21,760
the framework. The framework is actually

3132
02:16:21,760 --> 02:16:24,159
um this whole idea of coming back with

3133
02:16:24,159 --> 02:16:26,639
something where it's not like the T-AC

3134
02:16:26,639 --> 02:16:28,000
where a neighborhood is asking for a

3135
02:16:28,000 --> 02:16:30,320
speed bump and they have to petition and

3136
02:16:30,320 --> 02:16:31,760
figure it all out for themselves. This

3137
02:16:31,760 --> 02:16:37,040
is the city figuring out how we

3138
02:16:37,040 --> 02:16:39,120
can play a much bigger role. You know,

3139
02:16:39,120 --> 02:16:42,160
the the figuring out the PCIs was a

3140
02:16:42,160 --> 02:16:43,920
breakthrough, right? That was the

3141
02:16:43,920 --> 02:16:46,399
ability to then look at things and say,

3142
02:16:46,399 --> 02:16:48,960
"Hey, these are these are actually not

3143
02:16:48,960 --> 02:16:51,200
that hard and we can help and we can

3144
02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:53,840
help people organize for those that need

3145
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:55,439
some work. We can help people form an

3146
02:16:55,439 --> 02:16:58,399
assessment district. We can help do the

3147
02:16:58,399 --> 02:17:00,559
neighborhood organizing."

3148
02:17:00,559 --> 02:17:02,080
And the idea would there would be a

3149
02:17:02,080 --> 02:17:03,760
private infrastructure program that

3150
02:17:03,760 --> 02:17:07,599
would over a long period of time

3151
02:17:07,599 --> 02:17:10,960
create a path for anybody who wants to

3152
02:17:10,960 --> 02:17:13,920
do it to do it. It's not neighborhoods

3153
02:17:13,920 --> 02:17:16,160
self-organizing,

3154
02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:17,760
but

3155
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:19,439
what was on tonight's agenda was this

3156
02:17:19,439 --> 02:17:21,599
very specific list that felt like

3157
02:17:21,599 --> 02:17:24,479
modifying 5913

3158
02:17:24,479 --> 02:17:26,080
and it it felt sort of cart before the

3159
02:17:26,080 --> 02:17:28,240
horse where we're talking about well,

3160
02:17:28,240 --> 02:17:30,639
oh, let's take out the no subdivision

3161
02:17:30,639 --> 02:17:32,160
restriction

3162
02:17:32,160 --> 02:17:36,399
but with no plan for what we do if we

3163
02:17:36,399 --> 02:17:38,399
say we will consider private road

3164
02:17:38,399 --> 02:17:40,479
adoption of subdivisions.

3165
02:17:40,479 --> 02:17:42,800
I think 5918 is not the framework. The

3166
02:17:42,800 --> 02:17:46,240
framework is the framework.

3167
02:17:46,240 --> 02:17:48,080
And so I I kind of felt like that bullet

3168
02:17:48,080 --> 02:17:51,040
point list was misplaced relative to

3169
02:17:51,040 --> 02:17:52,559
tonight's check-in.

3170
02:17:52,559 --> 02:17:55,349
>> Okay. So just a couple thoughts and then

3171
02:17:55,349 --> 02:17:55,359
» Okay. So just a couple thoughts and then

3172
02:17:55,359 --> 02:17:56,080
I'll

3173
02:17:56,080 --> 02:17:58,549
>> Okay. Um,

3174
02:17:58,549 --> 02:17:58,559
» Okay. Um,

3175
02:17:58,559 --> 02:18:00,160
one thing you reminded me of in this

3176
02:18:00,160 --> 02:18:01,519
conversation is that we had a public

3177
02:18:01,519 --> 02:18:04,399
comment about assessment districts. Um,

3178
02:18:04,399 --> 02:18:08,000
and that there might be various ways and

3179
02:18:08,000 --> 02:18:09,679
different communities or different

3180
02:18:09,679 --> 02:18:11,760
neighborhoods might might want different

3181
02:18:11,760 --> 02:18:15,760
things and that is very much still an

3182
02:18:15,760 --> 02:18:17,519
opportunity and a possibility and

3183
02:18:17,519 --> 02:18:19,840
different, you know, Sanel, there's

3184
02:18:19,840 --> 02:18:24,240
different things we could still do. this

3185
02:18:24,240 --> 02:18:27,830
um

3186
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:32,399
the I think it might be maybe not but it

3187
02:18:32,399 --> 02:18:36,240
might be helpful to just currently 5918

3188
02:18:36,240 --> 02:18:39,200
the first sentence of the resolution is

3189
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:41,760
it says the acceptance the acceptance of

3190
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:44,319
existing privately maintained roads into

3191
02:18:44,319 --> 02:18:46,800
the city's public roadway network shall

3192
02:18:46,800 --> 02:18:50,000
be by resolution of the city council and

3193
02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:51,599
shall be subject to the following

3194
02:18:51,599 --> 02:18:55,040
criteria. IA. So what it is is it's it's

3195
02:18:55,040 --> 02:18:56,960
criteria and so what we're calling

3196
02:18:56,960 --> 02:19:00,240
framework is criteria. It does not say

3197
02:19:00,240 --> 02:19:02,240
if you meet all this criteria you are

3198
02:19:02,240 --> 02:19:06,399
accepted. It is still by resolution. But

3199
02:19:06,399 --> 02:19:09,920
what we are doing is we had a in my mind

3200
02:19:09,920 --> 02:19:11,840
this is just how I view this. We had a

3201
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:15,679
resolution that included criteria and it

3202
02:19:15,679 --> 02:19:19,120
said the only path is if you meet all

3203
02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:20,800
this criteria and it's it's basically

3204
02:19:20,800 --> 02:19:22,960
impossible to meet, right? Like you

3205
02:19:22,960 --> 02:19:25,359
asked about the 20-year

3206
02:19:25,359 --> 02:19:28,559
to have it's it's I remember now from

3207
02:19:28,559 --> 02:19:30,800
the infrastructure discussion because we

3208
02:19:30,800 --> 02:19:33,519
asked about that, right? And it was the

3209
02:19:33,519 --> 02:19:36,240
response was that it was

3210
02:19:36,240 --> 02:19:38,160
basically we weren't even sure how

3211
02:19:38,160 --> 02:19:40,000
someone would show, you know, show that,

3212
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:45,200
right? So to this point the question is

3213
02:19:45,200 --> 02:19:49,040
should the criteria say that HOAs are

3214
02:19:49,040 --> 02:19:51,520
excluded and to me that's a lot more

3215
02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:55,040
narrow and doesn't require us right now

3216
02:19:55,040 --> 02:19:57,200
to say

3217
02:19:57,200 --> 02:19:59,920
how are we going to pay for

3218
02:19:59,920 --> 02:20:02,240
you know all the HOA privately

3219
02:20:02,240 --> 02:20:04,640
maintained roads becoming public roads.

3220
02:20:04,640 --> 02:20:06,560
We are simply saying that in the

3221
02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:08,720
criteria we are not excluding them which

3222
02:20:08,720 --> 02:20:10,720
is big. I'm not saying it's not huge. I

3223
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:13,120
don't want to minimize that. It is big.

3224
02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:17,920
It's It is a very big policy change,

3225
02:20:17,920 --> 02:20:23,920
but I do favor it. And I also

3226
02:20:23,920 --> 02:20:27,520
absolutely underscore underline in bold

3227
02:20:27,520 --> 02:20:30,240
to me

3228
02:20:30,240 --> 02:20:31,840
removing this exclusion from the

3229
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:35,280
criteria doesn't mean and shouldn't be

3230
02:20:35,280 --> 02:20:37,520
you know read as we are going to

3231
02:20:37,520 --> 02:20:40,960
immediately be able to adopt all these

3232
02:20:40,960 --> 02:20:43,760
roads as public roads

3233
02:20:43,760 --> 02:20:47,280
because to do anything like that has a

3234
02:20:47,280 --> 02:20:48,880
funding mechanism and a funding

3235
02:20:48,880 --> 02:20:52,560
implication and that has to be accounted

3236
02:20:52,560 --> 02:20:55,280
for because we don't overspend here. We

3237
02:20:55,280 --> 02:20:58,000
maintain our reserves. So I do agree

3238
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:02,319
that that is a huge huge thing that has

3239
02:21:02,319 --> 02:21:06,640
to be done but also view this resolution

3240
02:21:06,640 --> 02:21:08,479
along those lines. I don't know if

3241
02:21:08,479 --> 02:21:11,920
that's helpful or or not.

3242
02:21:11,920 --> 02:21:16,960
Yeah, I agree. I in the sense that again

3243
02:21:16,960 --> 02:21:20,160
what ultimately comes out of this um may

3244
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:24,640
be a lot of things but the the goal was

3245
02:21:24,640 --> 02:21:30,790
not to at this stage just

3246
02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:34,230
continue

3247
02:21:34,240 --> 02:21:37,120
well I I think council member Malcanu

3248
02:21:37,120 --> 02:21:39,439
said it well not not to just start

3249
02:21:39,439 --> 02:21:42,160
excluding because first of all it's not

3250
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:44,080
it's not an immediate acceptance of

3251
02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:47,120
anything, right? It's as well as the

3252
02:21:47,120 --> 02:21:48,720
fact that we know from listening to

3253
02:21:48,720 --> 02:21:51,120
people and we have listened over the

3254
02:21:51,120 --> 02:21:54,160
last year and a half and we know both

3255
02:21:54,160 --> 02:21:56,160
from lots of the written comments we've

3256
02:21:56,160 --> 02:21:59,200
gotten, what we've heard in person, um

3257
02:21:59,200 --> 02:22:01,200
what the city's dealt with over the last

3258
02:22:01,200 --> 02:22:03,280
decade on this issue is, you know, we

3259
02:22:03,280 --> 02:22:05,439
have people that are perfectly happy

3260
02:22:05,439 --> 02:22:07,600
with their private road and don't want

3261
02:22:07,600 --> 02:22:09,520
anything. They don't want anything from

3262
02:22:09,520 --> 02:22:11,200
the city. they don't they they're

3263
02:22:11,200 --> 02:22:13,439
perfectly happy with the situation. We

3264
02:22:13,439 --> 02:22:15,840
know that we have people that are on the

3265
02:22:15,840 --> 02:22:18,479
other side that believe for whatever

3266
02:22:18,479 --> 02:22:21,280
combination of reasons that the city

3267
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:24,319
should um adopt their road into the

3268
02:22:24,319 --> 02:22:26,399
public system in some way, shape or

3269
02:22:26,399 --> 02:22:28,800
form. And we have, believe it or not,

3270
02:22:28,800 --> 02:22:32,000
quite a few people in various categories

3271
02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:34,080
in between. We have some people that

3272
02:22:34,080 --> 02:22:35,840
really care about the ownership of the

3273
02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:37,520
road. We have other people that just

3274
02:22:37,520 --> 02:22:39,280
care about the finances of getting the

3275
02:22:39,280 --> 02:22:41,439
road maintained. We also have some

3276
02:22:41,439 --> 02:22:44,800
people that are not as not all that

3277
02:22:44,800 --> 02:22:47,359
adverse to maintaining it, but they're

3278
02:22:47,359 --> 02:22:51,120
having difficulties doing that because

3279
02:22:51,120 --> 02:22:53,680
they don't have an HOA. They don't have

3280
02:22:53,680 --> 02:22:55,520
a mechanism to get their neighbors to

3281
02:22:55,520 --> 02:22:57,280
contribute. They just they have all

3282
02:22:57,280 --> 02:23:01,120
kinds of other challenges that just make

3283
02:23:01,120 --> 02:23:03,359
doing your own public works kind of

3284
02:23:03,359 --> 02:23:04,080
hard.

3285
02:23:04,080 --> 02:23:05,510
>> No. And I and I want to save some of

3286
02:23:05,510 --> 02:23:05,520
» No. And I and I want to save some of

3287
02:23:05,520 --> 02:23:06,880
those comments for when council member

3288
02:23:06,880 --> 02:23:08,880
Hawky can come back. The the specific

3289
02:23:08,880 --> 02:23:10,720
question here is where there is an

3290
02:23:10,720 --> 02:23:13,200
assessment, you know, where there is an

3291
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:17,040
HOA. And I again I just I I I'm sorry to

3292
02:23:17,040 --> 02:23:20,720
be so hard-nosed about this, but

3293
02:23:20,720 --> 02:23:24,880
I feel what is being set forth is like a

3294
02:23:24,880 --> 02:23:30,080
tone set and and I agree 5918 is is not

3295
02:23:30,080 --> 02:23:32,399
working right. the whole but but again

3296
02:23:32,399 --> 02:23:34,640
to talk about

3297
02:23:34,640 --> 02:23:38,880
specific changes to this law in the same

3298
02:23:38,880 --> 02:23:40,880
spirit as and you know somebody used the

3299
02:23:40,880 --> 02:23:42,479
expression good faith right I think

3300
02:23:42,479 --> 02:23:44,960
that's the the tone reset happened when

3301
02:23:44,960 --> 02:23:47,359
we formed the subcommittee when we when

3302
02:23:47,359 --> 02:23:50,000
we reupted I mean I I don't think we

3303
02:23:50,000 --> 02:23:51,840
would be spending the resources we've

3304
02:23:51,840 --> 02:23:53,040
been spending for years on the

3305
02:23:53,040 --> 02:23:56,000
subcommittee if we were not committed to

3306
02:23:56,000 --> 02:23:59,200
work together in good faith to find a

3307
02:23:59,200 --> 02:24:01,920
better way to deal with private

3308
02:24:01,920 --> 02:24:05,120
infrastructure. And so I I just again

3309
02:24:05,120 --> 02:24:06,720
this it felt to me like you guys were

3310
02:24:06,720 --> 02:24:10,319
trying to disassemble 5918 from the

3311
02:24:10,319 --> 02:24:13,359
inside and leave nothing there but kind

3312
02:24:13,359 --> 02:24:17,040
of an empty shell. And that's to me not

3313
02:24:17,040 --> 02:24:19,359
the point. The point is to come back and

3314
02:24:19,359 --> 02:24:22,880
say forget what's in 5918. We'll deal

3315
02:24:22,880 --> 02:24:24,720
with that when we have the final the

3316
02:24:24,720 --> 02:24:28,960
final program legal changes financing

3317
02:24:28,960 --> 02:24:31,920
figured out. But what I was

3318
02:24:31,920 --> 02:24:34,000
hoping would come back in a check-in is

3319
02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:36,960
to say, you know, number one, HOAs,

3320
02:24:36,960 --> 02:24:40,000
should we or should we not um should

3321
02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:41,680
they be at the table or not at the

3322
02:24:41,680 --> 02:24:44,000
table, which is I think what you meant

3323
02:24:44,000 --> 02:24:49,760
with the HOA conversation, but then um

3324
02:24:49,760 --> 02:24:50,160
go ahead.

3325
02:24:50,160 --> 02:24:53,349
>> Sorry. The question is if we're

3326
02:24:53,349 --> 02:24:53,359
» Sorry. The question is if we're

3327
02:24:53,359 --> 02:24:57,600
developing criteria for potential

3328
02:24:57,600 --> 02:24:59,760
in order to even be cons if we're

3329
02:24:59,760 --> 02:25:01,600
developing criteria should HOAs be

3330
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:04,960
excluded from the crit

3331
02:25:04,960 --> 02:25:07,120
is part of the criteria is one item in

3332
02:25:07,120 --> 02:25:08,960
the criteria that HOAs are excluded from

3333
02:25:08,960 --> 02:25:10,880
this resolution but that's the question

3334
02:25:10,880 --> 02:25:13,120
the resolution that's my point not the

3335
02:25:13,120 --> 02:25:16,720
resolution we are not

3336
02:25:16,720 --> 02:25:17,750
>> sorry I'm not understand

3337
02:25:17,750 --> 02:25:17,760
» sorry I'm not understand

3338
02:25:17,760 --> 02:25:19,349
>> I as the person in this conversation is

3339
02:25:19,349 --> 02:25:19,359
» I as the person in this conversation is

3340
02:25:19,359 --> 02:25:20,960
the one of the three people who are not

3341
02:25:20,960 --> 02:25:22,720
on the subcommittee.

3342
02:25:22,720 --> 02:25:27,840
I am nowhere near prepared to uh to say

3343
02:25:27,840 --> 02:25:33,120
that we should include HOAs in private

3344
02:25:33,120 --> 02:25:36,560
road adoption until you have been able

3345
02:25:36,560 --> 02:25:40,560
to address how we deal with uh the

3346
02:25:40,560 --> 02:25:42,720
imbalance of assessments can adjust with

3347
02:25:42,720 --> 02:25:46,160
inflation, property tax cannot.

3348
02:25:46,160 --> 02:25:48,160
So, do I want to say they are not part

3349
02:25:48,160 --> 02:25:50,160
of the subcommittee's charter? No, there

3350
02:25:50,160 --> 02:25:51,840
absolutely should be part of the

3351
02:25:51,840 --> 02:25:54,080
subcommittee's charter. First, you have

3352
02:25:54,080 --> 02:25:56,960
to answer the question about if we can

3353
02:25:56,960 --> 02:25:58,880
come. Is there a solution out there that

3354
02:25:58,880 --> 02:26:02,160
works to include the HOAs?

3355
02:26:02,160 --> 02:26:03,830
>> Well, I guess my feeling is we would

3356
02:26:03,830 --> 02:26:03,840
» Well, I guess my feeling is we would

3357
02:26:03,840 --> 02:26:05,840
never know that if we arbitrarily

3358
02:26:05,840 --> 02:26:10,389
exclude them right now,

3359
02:26:10,399 --> 02:26:12,479
» but do you

3360
02:26:12,479 --> 02:26:14,469
>> Yes. I mean, I I understand your

3361
02:26:14,469 --> 02:26:14,479
» Yes. I mean, I I understand your

3362
02:26:14,479 --> 02:26:17,600
concerns, which I think,

3363
02:26:17,600 --> 02:26:22,479
you know, come back primarily to cost

3364
02:26:22,479 --> 02:26:24,720
ultimately, but we all know that. We all

3365
02:26:24,720 --> 02:26:27,760
know that however this gets approached.

3366
02:26:27,760 --> 02:26:29,359
And even the people that live on private

3367
02:26:29,359 --> 02:26:31,439
roads in this community, no matter how

3368
02:26:31,439 --> 02:26:33,280
strongly they feel one way or the other

3369
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:36,000
about various topics, all recognize that

3370
02:26:36,000 --> 02:26:38,240
at the end of the day, it comes down to

3371
02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:41,280
how could this be structured costwise?

3372
02:26:41,280 --> 02:26:43,359
Um and and there are a lot of questions

3373
02:26:43,359 --> 02:26:46,479
around that. Um, but I guess in my mind

3374
02:26:46,479 --> 02:26:50,080
I don't want at this point to say

3375
02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:53,840
because you're an HO part of an HOA,

3376
02:26:53,840 --> 02:26:57,920
it means that you can't be again because

3377
02:26:57,920 --> 02:27:00,720
I guess my sense of the goal originally

3378
02:27:00,720 --> 02:27:04,800
was to find ways to keep this

3379
02:27:04,800 --> 02:27:08,080
to find ways to bring this issue

3380
02:27:08,080 --> 02:27:10,479
together more than letting it continue

3381
02:27:10,479 --> 02:27:13,359
to be a very divisive, painful issue in

3382
02:27:13,359 --> 02:27:15,680
the community. And to me, if you're

3383
02:27:15,680 --> 02:27:19,439
right again, not allowing HOAs to be

3384
02:27:19,439 --> 02:27:23,120
considered, then that's again

3385
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:25,680
just being divisive rather than finding

3386
02:27:25,680 --> 02:27:28,240
ways to find solutions. Even though I'm

3387
02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:30,960
I'm not disagreeing with you that there

3388
02:27:30,960 --> 02:27:34,720
may be financial issues that, you know,

3389
02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:36,880
may or may not be able to be overcome in

3390
02:27:36,880 --> 02:27:38,319
the future.

3391
02:27:38,319 --> 02:27:42,389
>> I go ahead. the the the

3392
02:27:42,389 --> 02:27:42,399
» I go ahead. the the the

3393
02:27:42,399 --> 02:27:46,640
actual language says that

3394
02:27:46,640 --> 02:27:49,920
HOAs are not eligible for acceptance by

3395
02:27:49,920 --> 02:27:51,600
the city. So it says under

3396
02:27:51,600 --> 02:27:53,270
>> you are not hearing my feedback. So I

3397
02:27:53,270 --> 02:27:53,280
» you are not hearing my feedback. So I

3398
02:27:53,280 --> 02:27:55,200
want to try this one more time.

3399
02:27:55,200 --> 02:27:56,630
>> As long as you're trying to reddraft

3400
02:27:56,630 --> 02:27:56,640
» As long as you're trying to reddraft

3401
02:27:56,640 --> 02:27:59,840
that law, I am not going to agree. We're

3402
02:27:59,840 --> 02:28:02,479
not ready. As long as you're telling me

3403
02:28:02,479 --> 02:28:05,120
because like Darlene on my right is

3404
02:28:05,120 --> 02:28:06,800
saying

3405
02:28:06,800 --> 02:28:08,960
the subcommittee the infrastructure

3406
02:28:08,960 --> 02:28:10,720
subcommittee would like to keep working

3407
02:28:10,720 --> 02:28:13,359
on potential solutions. I am on board

3408
02:28:13,359 --> 02:28:14,720
with that.

3409
02:28:14,720 --> 02:28:18,790
>> Then you're saying well 5918 says that

3410
02:28:18,790 --> 02:28:18,800
» Then you're saying well 5918 says that

3411
02:28:18,800 --> 02:28:22,640
HOAs are excluded. 5918 is a path to

3412
02:28:22,640 --> 02:28:26,000
adoption and I'm not ready to put HOAs

3413
02:28:26,000 --> 02:28:29,760
in the path to adoption until we can

3414
02:28:29,760 --> 02:28:34,960
solve the big fiscal imbalance question.

3415
02:28:34,960 --> 02:28:37,280
So I want I would like to see the

3416
02:28:37,280 --> 02:28:41,359
subcommittee keep working on HOA

3417
02:28:41,359 --> 02:28:43,680
inclusion

3418
02:28:43,680 --> 02:28:45,840
if there is a way to do it. But every

3419
02:28:45,840 --> 02:28:48,880
time you point to 5918, I'm going to say

3420
02:28:48,880 --> 02:28:51,760
no because that is the that was actually

3421
02:28:51,760 --> 02:28:53,680
something saying if you do these things,

3422
02:28:53,680 --> 02:28:55,359
the city can adopt your road.

3423
02:28:55,359 --> 02:28:57,510
>> That's not what it's

3424
02:28:57,510 --> 02:28:57,520
» That's not what it's

3425
02:28:57,520 --> 02:28:59,359
it says you're not going to be

3426
02:28:59,359 --> 02:29:00,960
considered

3427
02:29:00,960 --> 02:29:04,160
unless you do all these things. It's it

3428
02:29:04,160 --> 02:29:06,560
it's disingenuous to say, "Oh, you could

3429
02:29:06,560 --> 02:29:07,920
do all these things, but then we're not

3430
02:29:07,920 --> 02:29:10,479
going to consider you because

3431
02:29:10,479 --> 02:29:12,080
we can't afford you and you knew all

3432
02:29:12,080 --> 02:29:13,680
along we could never afford you." I mean

3433
02:29:13,680 --> 02:29:17,760
that it just if it's not possible for

3434
02:29:17,760 --> 02:29:19,040
HOAs then it's not possible.

3435
02:29:19,040 --> 02:29:23,510
>> I mean

3436
02:29:23,520 --> 02:29:25,680
» I don't think that considering finances

3437
02:29:25,680 --> 02:29:27,280
when you're looking at adoption is

3438
02:29:27,280 --> 02:29:29,359
disingenuous. I think everyone knows we

3439
02:29:29,359 --> 02:29:31,920
have to be looking at that as well. So I

3440
02:29:31,920 --> 02:29:35,840
don't I I'm I'm not trying to I hear

3441
02:29:35,840 --> 02:29:38,240
what you're saying. I just think that to

3442
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:41,280
me what is before us, right? What we're

3443
02:29:41,280 --> 02:29:45,040
looking at is something very specific

3444
02:29:45,040 --> 02:29:47,280
and

3445
02:29:47,280 --> 02:29:51,760
the issue of whether there will be whe

3446
02:29:51,760 --> 02:29:54,160
when and how

3447
02:29:54,160 --> 02:29:57,200
there will be a financial

3448
02:29:57,200 --> 02:30:00,080
um there will be funding basically to

3449
02:30:00,080 --> 02:30:03,760
adopt any any private road in any

3450
02:30:03,760 --> 02:30:06,880
homeowners association or all of them or

3451
02:30:06,880 --> 02:30:10,160
one of them or is

3452
02:30:10,160 --> 02:30:12,880
a very fact-specific inquiry that will

3453
02:30:12,880 --> 02:30:14,800
happen at the time and may frankly

3454
02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:18,080
happen way down the road because there

3455
02:30:18,080 --> 02:30:21,680
isn't funding for it to happen now. So I

3456
02:30:21,680 --> 02:30:26,080
am not trying to be say that we do this

3457
02:30:26,080 --> 02:30:28,960
and then oh well we've already done it

3458
02:30:28,960 --> 02:30:31,359
so everyone gets accepted right that is

3459
02:30:31,359 --> 02:30:35,520
no that I mean I I guess I'm trying to

3460
02:30:35,520 --> 02:30:37,680
be really clear about the understanding

3461
02:30:37,680 --> 02:30:40,399
of what it means to rewrite the criteria

3462
02:30:40,399 --> 02:30:43,120
in here right and that the expectation

3463
02:30:43,120 --> 02:30:45,760
should not be and I and I think that

3464
02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:46,960
those that have been attending the

3465
02:30:46,960 --> 02:30:49,439
subcommittee meetings get that because

3466
02:30:49,439 --> 02:30:51,600
there's been a lot to talk about. We

3467
02:30:51,600 --> 02:30:53,200
keep one question that keeps coming up

3468
02:30:53,200 --> 02:30:55,600
in the subcommittee, frankly, is well,

3469
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:57,439
what's the next step? How does this get

3470
02:30:57,439 --> 02:30:58,880
happen? How does this get happen? And we

3471
02:30:58,880 --> 02:31:02,240
keep having to say, we're not there yet,

3472
02:31:02,240 --> 02:31:04,640
right? We're not we're not there yet in

3473
02:31:04,640 --> 02:31:06,640
terms of refiguring out the funding.

3474
02:31:06,640 --> 02:31:09,280
What we're trying to do is keep moving

3475
02:31:09,280 --> 02:31:12,000
forward towards problem solving,

3476
02:31:12,000 --> 02:31:14,479
recognizing that this is a really big

3477
02:31:14,479 --> 02:31:16,640
problem that may take, frankly, I

3478
02:31:16,640 --> 02:31:19,840
personally think years to solve.

3479
02:31:19,840 --> 02:31:21,359
And that doesn't mean that this the

3480
02:31:21,359 --> 02:31:23,040
infrastructure subcommittee will exist

3481
02:31:23,040 --> 02:31:25,840
for for for staff purposes. I'm not

3482
02:31:25,840 --> 02:31:27,600
suggesting that that needs to exist for

3483
02:31:27,600 --> 02:31:29,920
years and years. But I think that the

3484
02:31:29,920 --> 02:31:33,520
council will continue to,

3485
02:31:33,520 --> 02:31:36,800
you know, be revisiting this issue for

3486
02:31:36,800 --> 02:31:38,399
years in terms of especially when you

3487
02:31:38,399 --> 02:31:40,880
get to funding. So, I'm not, you know,

3488
02:31:40,880 --> 02:31:44,000
but if if this exclusion was maintained,

3489
02:31:44,000 --> 02:31:45,920
the way I view it, and maybe I'm

3490
02:31:45,920 --> 02:31:49,040
misreading it, but the way I view it is

3491
02:31:49,040 --> 02:31:51,359
if this exclusion were maintained, then

3492
02:31:51,359 --> 02:31:54,319
no matter what the circumstances, no

3493
02:31:54,319 --> 02:31:58,000
road in any homeowners association, no

3494
02:31:58,000 --> 02:31:59,920
residents living on a privately

3495
02:31:59,920 --> 02:32:01,439
maintained road in any homeowners

3496
02:32:01,439 --> 02:32:03,120
association

3497
02:32:03,120 --> 02:32:06,240
could ever seek adoption.

3498
02:32:06,240 --> 02:32:08,240
And that to me is different from

3499
02:32:08,240 --> 02:32:09,520
everyone gets it and the same thing back

3500
02:32:09,520 --> 02:32:10,720
and forth and everybody in the audience

3501
02:32:10,720 --> 02:32:14,160
is thrashing in their chairs. So

3502
02:32:14,160 --> 02:32:19,349
>> we can we can move forward with saying I

3503
02:32:19,349 --> 02:32:19,359
» we can we can move forward with saying I

3504
02:32:19,359 --> 02:32:20,960
I'm going to rephrase it the way Vice

3505
02:32:20,960 --> 02:32:23,920
Mayor G said it, which is

3506
02:32:23,920 --> 02:32:27,520
we are not going to say that HOAs are

3507
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:29,600
categorically cannot be considered off

3508
02:32:29,600 --> 02:32:31,439
the table. I thought HOAs were in the

3509
02:32:31,439 --> 02:32:32,880
charter of the subcommittee from the

3510
02:32:32,880 --> 02:32:35,840
beginning and should be and for that

3511
02:32:35,840 --> 02:32:37,200
purpose I would like to invite council

3512
02:32:37,200 --> 02:32:39,520
member Hawky back in the conversation

3513
02:32:39,520 --> 02:32:42,800
but every time you point to that law and

3514
02:32:42,800 --> 02:32:44,720
you say

3515
02:32:44,720 --> 02:32:47,840
change this sentence I am going to say

3516
02:32:47,840 --> 02:32:50,560
no what I would like is for the

3517
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:53,040
subcommittee to come back with an actual

3518
02:32:53,040 --> 02:32:57,439
program that says here's I mean yes this

3519
02:32:57,439 --> 02:32:59,760
law basically says you can't be accepted

3520
02:32:59,760 --> 02:33:01,680
is a public road unless you do all these

3521
02:33:01,680 --> 02:33:03,359
things and you need to be darn near

3522
02:33:03,359 --> 02:33:06,319
perfect. And I agree that that law as

3523
02:33:06,319 --> 02:33:08,000
our one and only way to work didn't

3524
02:33:08,000 --> 02:33:09,680
work. But what I expected from the

3525
02:33:09,680 --> 02:33:12,560
subcommittee was something that that

3526
02:33:12,560 --> 02:33:14,399
doesn't worry too much about what that

3527
02:33:14,399 --> 02:33:17,439
existing law says, but says here's a

3528
02:33:17,439 --> 02:33:20,240
program. Here's a solution. And I'm not

3529
02:33:20,240 --> 02:33:22,160
hearing a solution. What I'm hearing is

3530
02:33:22,160 --> 02:33:25,040
words smithing the existing law. So I I

3531
02:33:25,040 --> 02:33:27,280
do want to get council member back.

3532
02:33:27,280 --> 02:33:29,590
>> Can I ask you a question? Um I I think

3533
02:33:29,590 --> 02:33:29,600
» Can I ask you a question? Um I I think

3534
02:33:29,600 --> 02:33:31,840
that and again I I don't want to be

3535
02:33:31,840 --> 02:33:34,080
overly presumptive but

3536
02:33:34,080 --> 02:33:36,150
>> I think certainly a lot of members of

3537
02:33:36,150 --> 02:33:36,160
» I think certainly a lot of members of

3538
02:33:36,160 --> 02:33:38,720
the community um

3539
02:33:38,720 --> 02:33:41,030
>> you know feel that ultimately if we can

3540
02:33:41,030 --> 02:33:41,040
» you know feel that ultimately if we can

3541
02:33:41,040 --> 02:33:43,120
come up with anything that is better

3542
02:33:43,120 --> 02:33:47,359
than what we have today that 5918 would

3543
02:33:47,359 --> 02:33:51,600
have to either be revised or replaced or

3544
02:33:51,600 --> 02:33:54,720
one of the two that it we probably can't

3545
02:33:54,720 --> 02:33:57,280
come up with solutions

3546
02:33:57,280 --> 02:34:00,560
and then still have 5918 be exactly the

3547
02:34:00,560 --> 02:34:02,880
way it is. I I guess my and so it's a

3548
02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:04,080
question to you.

3549
02:34:04,080 --> 02:34:06,150
>> Of course, of course. Of course. I think

3550
02:34:06,150 --> 02:34:06,160
» Of course, of course. Of course. I think

3551
02:34:06,160 --> 02:34:07,520
we wouldn't have formed the subcommittee

3552
02:34:07,520 --> 02:34:09,600
if we were trying to just redline 5918.

3553
02:34:09,600 --> 02:34:11,520
I think the idea was we need

3554
02:34:11,520 --> 02:34:13,600
fundamentally new programs and

3555
02:34:13,600 --> 02:34:16,240
approaches and it might be a grant

3556
02:34:16,240 --> 02:34:17,840
program. It might be a maintenance

3557
02:34:17,840 --> 02:34:21,439
contract. It might be a way that we work

3558
02:34:21,439 --> 02:34:24,880
with any HOA or private road for

3559
02:34:24,880 --> 02:34:27,120
something that changes the criteria to

3560
02:34:27,120 --> 02:34:30,160
things that are PCI based and where we

3561
02:34:30,160 --> 02:34:33,120
help people form assessments when

3562
02:34:33,120 --> 02:34:34,399
because the whole thing about neighbors

3563
02:34:34,399 --> 02:34:35,760
having to collect from their neighbors.

3564
02:34:35,760 --> 02:34:37,600
I mean the the existing system

3565
02:34:37,600 --> 02:34:39,920
affirmatively doesn't work and I'm

3566
02:34:39,920 --> 02:34:42,319
excited to see things move forward. But

3567
02:34:42,319 --> 02:34:44,240
I I yeah, I just think that the

3568
02:34:44,240 --> 02:34:47,120
excessive focus on 5918 is not

3569
02:34:47,120 --> 02:34:48,800
constructive and I know staff wants to

3570
02:34:48,800 --> 02:34:52,560
spend their time as well as possible and

3571
02:34:52,560 --> 02:34:55,200
so I would focus on more of the big

3572
02:34:55,200 --> 02:34:57,600
picture solutions before we worry about

3573
02:34:57,600 --> 02:34:59,120
what this bullet point says or that

3574
02:34:59,120 --> 02:35:02,720
bullet point says. Um, I the reason this

3575
02:35:02,720 --> 02:35:04,880
is before the full council right now is

3576
02:35:04,880 --> 02:35:07,760
we didn't want to ask staff to spend

3577
02:35:07,760 --> 02:35:09,920
time and effort into reddrafting

3578
02:35:09,920 --> 02:35:13,280
something that was then

3579
02:35:13,280 --> 02:35:16,560
totally out of whack with the policy

3580
02:35:16,560 --> 02:35:19,120
desires of the full council, right?

3581
02:35:19,120 --> 02:35:20,880
Because it's a lot of work and it's

3582
02:35:20,880 --> 02:35:23,840
tricky and evidenced by the conversation

3583
02:35:23,840 --> 02:35:25,359
we're having, right? It's a tricky thing

3584
02:35:25,359 --> 02:35:28,319
to reddraft. So, we didn't want them

3585
02:35:28,319 --> 02:35:31,760
staff to spend time reddrafting until we

3586
02:35:31,760 --> 02:35:34,880
got this was this was one of these

3587
02:35:34,880 --> 02:35:36,640
things where we looked at it and said,

3588
02:35:36,640 --> 02:35:38,720
"Okay, some of this framework looks

3589
02:35:38,720 --> 02:35:40,960
good. This looks good to us, right? But

3590
02:35:40,960 --> 02:35:43,359
let's bring our colleagues in before

3591
02:35:43,359 --> 02:35:46,240
staff spends time

3592
02:35:46,240 --> 02:35:48,560
putting, you know, so I I'm not trying

3593
02:35:48,560 --> 02:35:50,240
to wordsmith something. I'm just trying

3594
02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:53,040
to tell you that on that point, that's

3595
02:35:53,040 --> 02:35:54,880
what I think it addresses. I went back

3596
02:35:54,880 --> 02:35:57,840
and looked on the other point and you

3597
02:35:57,840 --> 02:35:59,520
know the removal of zoning and

3598
02:35:59,520 --> 02:36:01,040
subdivision standards for adjacent

3599
02:36:01,040 --> 02:36:03,439
properties. That also that also that

3600
02:36:03,439 --> 02:36:07,040
bullet point appears to me to address a

3601
02:36:07,040 --> 02:36:08,880
very specific

3602
02:36:08,880 --> 02:36:12,720
uh clause in the current 5918 and

3603
02:36:12,720 --> 02:36:14,560
frankly I made a note that when it goes

3604
02:36:14,560 --> 02:36:16,080
back to the infrastructure committee we

3605
02:36:16,080 --> 02:36:17,680
better understand that better. So that

3606
02:36:17,680 --> 02:36:19,600
was a helpful feedback. So th that's the

3607
02:36:19,600 --> 02:36:20,240
idea

3608
02:36:20,240 --> 02:36:21,750
>> and I think in many respects madame

3609
02:36:21,750 --> 02:36:21,760
» and I think in many respects madame

3610
02:36:21,760 --> 02:36:23,359
mayor we're putting you in a really

3611
02:36:23,359 --> 02:36:25,439
difficult position. I mean some of this

3612
02:36:25,439 --> 02:36:27,280
may have to be redised when we have

3613
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:29,680
council member Riley with us and to

3614
02:36:29,680 --> 02:36:32,000
whatever extent council member Hawky can

3615
02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:34,080
participate. I think that's important as

3616
02:36:34,080 --> 02:36:36,640
well because obviously we we sort of

3617
02:36:36,640 --> 02:36:39,439
have a a tough situation where council

3618
02:36:39,439 --> 02:36:41,680
member Mccani and I have sat through a

3619
02:36:41,680 --> 02:36:43,040
whole lot that you haven't had the

3620
02:36:43,040 --> 02:36:44,720
benefit of and our other two council

3621
02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:46,960
members haven't either. So, I think it's

3622
02:36:46,960 --> 02:36:48,560
probably important that we get

3623
02:36:48,560 --> 02:36:50,550
>> No, this is a this is a really weird

3624
02:36:50,550 --> 02:36:50,560
» No, this is a this is a really weird

3625
02:36:50,560 --> 02:36:53,760
dynamic and it's it's really suboptimal.

3626
02:36:53,760 --> 02:36:58,720
So, um I will say though, please and I'm

3627
02:36:58,720 --> 02:37:01,040
I am only one person, but there are only

3628
02:37:01,040 --> 02:37:02,000
three of us that aren't on the

3629
02:37:02,000 --> 02:37:06,960
subcommittee. Do not reddraft 5918 until

3630
02:37:06,960 --> 02:37:09,439
you have something that works figured

3631
02:37:09,439 --> 02:37:11,760
out. Start with a solution and then

3632
02:37:11,760 --> 02:37:14,720
reddraft the law. You're you're truly

3633
02:37:14,720 --> 02:37:16,160
putting the car before the horse.

3634
02:37:16,160 --> 02:37:17,670
>> I

3635
02:37:17,670 --> 02:37:17,680
» I

3636
02:37:17,680 --> 02:37:19,680
when you say some until you have

3637
02:37:19,680 --> 02:37:21,600
something figured out, what what do you

3638
02:37:21,600 --> 02:37:22,000
mean?

3639
02:37:22,000 --> 02:37:24,790
>> Come to us and say here's what was

3640
02:37:24,790 --> 02:37:24,800
» Come to us and say here's what was

3641
02:37:24,800 --> 02:37:26,800
broken and here's how we're going to fix

3642
02:37:26,800 --> 02:37:29,840
it. We think that the you know pick so

3643
02:37:29,840 --> 02:37:31,600
you come to us with a presentation that

3644
02:37:31,600 --> 02:37:33,760
says here were the constraints on

3645
02:37:33,760 --> 02:37:35,600
getting roads adopted. The technical

3646
02:37:35,600 --> 02:37:37,920
standards were too high. Mhm.

3647
02:37:37,920 --> 02:37:40,469
>> The city was so concerned about

3648
02:37:40,469 --> 02:37:40,479
» The city was so concerned about

3649
02:37:40,479 --> 02:37:42,240
liability that they made impossible

3650
02:37:42,240 --> 02:37:44,880
standards to pass. Neighbors had too

3651
02:37:44,880 --> 02:37:47,120
hard a time uh some neighbors

3652
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:48,720
neighborhoods were well organized, some

3653
02:37:48,720 --> 02:37:51,120
were poorly organized. Neighbors had a

3654
02:37:51,120 --> 02:37:52,960
horrible time with the legalities of

3655
02:37:52,960 --> 02:37:55,280
forming assessment districts and

3656
02:37:55,280 --> 02:37:56,880
neighbors neighborhoods had a horrible

3657
02:37:56,880 --> 02:37:58,640
time with knowing what to do to fix

3658
02:37:58,640 --> 02:38:01,600
their roads. So, if you were to come and

3659
02:38:01,600 --> 02:38:03,280
say, "Here's how we're going to deal

3660
02:38:03,280 --> 02:38:06,640
with neighborhood assessments and

3661
02:38:06,640 --> 02:38:08,560
organization and sort of the legal

3662
02:38:08,560 --> 02:38:09,760
aspects and here's how we're going to

3663
02:38:09,760 --> 02:38:11,760
deal with neighborhoods knowing what

3664
02:38:11,760 --> 02:38:14,080
they need to do to get their roads up to

3665
02:38:14,080 --> 02:38:16,160
an adoptable standard. And here's what

3666
02:38:16,160 --> 02:38:18,479
we think an adoptable standard looks

3667
02:38:18,479 --> 02:38:19,920
like. And here's what we're going to do

3668
02:38:19,920 --> 02:38:22,880
about the fact that some roads are maybe

3669
02:38:22,880 --> 02:38:26,399
have soil erosion issues that are really

3670
02:38:26,399 --> 02:38:28,240
not good for city liability, but are

3671
02:38:28,240 --> 02:38:30,240
also not good for homeowner liability.

3672
02:38:30,240 --> 02:38:32,479
What do we do with things that have

3673
02:38:32,479 --> 02:38:35,520
engineering flaws or problems? Here's

3674
02:38:35,520 --> 02:38:38,080
what we think we should do about HOAs

3675
02:38:38,080 --> 02:38:41,520
and the adoption criteria when an HOA is

3676
02:38:41,520 --> 02:38:43,439
evolved. There's a couple things that we

3677
02:38:43,439 --> 02:38:46,080
have talked about for years now that are

3678
02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:47,920
the known kind of the big boulders of

3679
02:38:47,920 --> 02:38:50,880
the issue. And so before we're talking

3680
02:38:50,880 --> 02:38:52,240
about what the bullet point says about

3681
02:38:52,240 --> 02:38:55,359
subdivision compliance, it's like well

3682
02:38:55,359 --> 02:38:57,920
what's the solution?

3683
02:38:57,920 --> 02:39:01,600
So that particular bullet I have a note

3684
02:39:01,600 --> 02:39:04,160
to go back onto but with everything else

3685
02:39:04,160 --> 02:39:06,319
I thought we were coming with that. So I

3686
02:39:06,319 --> 02:39:08,240
guess anyway, how what's the best way

3687
02:39:08,240 --> 02:39:10,319
for us to move forward? Because you're

3688
02:39:10,319 --> 02:39:12,880
right, it is a it's it's not fair to

3689
02:39:12,880 --> 02:39:14,319
have the conversation also, I think,

3690
02:39:14,319 --> 02:39:14,800
with the

3691
02:39:14,800 --> 02:39:16,389
>> it's like you came with a legal solution

3692
02:39:16,389 --> 02:39:16,399
» it's like you came with a legal solution

3693
02:39:16,399 --> 02:39:18,080
to a business problem and I want to hear

3694
02:39:18,080 --> 02:39:19,920
the business solution before we worry

3695
02:39:19,920 --> 02:39:22,160
about how we're going to draft it. And

3696
02:39:22,160 --> 02:39:23,840
but I would like to invite council

3697
02:39:23,840 --> 02:39:24,640
member Hawky

3698
02:39:24,640 --> 02:39:27,910
>> and I'm to have um to be able to share

3699
02:39:27,910 --> 02:39:27,920
» and I'm to have um to be able to share

3700
02:39:27,920 --> 02:39:29,439
her thoughts and opinions because Lord

3701
02:39:29,439 --> 02:39:32,240
knows she's going to have some as well.

3702
02:39:32,240 --> 02:39:33,280
Um and I do think

3703
02:39:33,280 --> 02:39:35,590
>> what are we so we're just putting I

3704
02:39:35,590 --> 02:39:35,600
» what are we so we're just putting I

3705
02:39:35,600 --> 02:39:37,439
think we've discussed it as much as we

3706
02:39:37,439 --> 02:39:39,680
could. Can we can we discuss the rest

3707
02:39:39,680 --> 02:39:41,600
without that clause?

3708
02:39:41,600 --> 02:39:44,389
>> So the way the FPPC's segmentation rule

3709
02:39:44,389 --> 02:39:44,399
» So the way the FPPC's segmentation rule

3710
02:39:44,399 --> 02:39:45,920
works which is the one we're operating

3711
02:39:45,920 --> 02:39:49,920
under right now um an issue has to be

3712
02:39:49,920 --> 02:39:52,399
segregable from the remainder of the

3713
02:39:52,399 --> 02:39:55,280
discussion. A final decision as much as

3714
02:39:55,280 --> 02:39:57,760
there is one uh tonight has to be

3715
02:39:57,760 --> 02:40:00,720
reached and then cannot return to this

3716
02:40:00,720 --> 02:40:02,800
discussion once council member Hawky

3717
02:40:02,800 --> 02:40:06,960
comes back. I hearing the discussion and

3718
02:40:06,960 --> 02:40:08,560
please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm

3719
02:40:08,560 --> 02:40:13,280
hearing consensus that a property's

3720
02:40:13,280 --> 02:40:15,280
membership in an HOA or non-membership

3721
02:40:15,280 --> 02:40:19,760
in an HOA is not a

3722
02:40:19,760 --> 02:40:22,479
definitive characteristic.

3723
02:40:22,479 --> 02:40:25,439
Right? So whereas my read of the

3724
02:40:25,439 --> 02:40:27,439
existing resolution was that there might

3725
02:40:27,439 --> 02:40:29,840
be a clear dividing line. priv private

3726
02:40:29,840 --> 02:40:31,600
roads are either in an HOA or they are

3727
02:40:31,600 --> 02:40:33,920
not and they are treated differently.

3728
02:40:33,920 --> 02:40:36,000
I'm hearing consensus that that is not

3729
02:40:36,000 --> 02:40:37,840
going to be the case at least for the

3730
02:40:37,840 --> 02:40:39,760
purposes of this highle framework

3731
02:40:39,760 --> 02:40:40,800
discussion.

3732
02:40:40,800 --> 02:40:42,870
>> I believe we are unanimous that they do

3733
02:40:42,870 --> 02:40:42,880
» I believe we are unanimous that they do

3734
02:40:42,880 --> 02:40:45,120
not need to be categorically excluded

3735
02:40:45,120 --> 02:40:48,479
from the consideration and therefore I

3736
02:40:48,479 --> 02:40:50,000
believe council member Hawky can be

3737
02:40:50,000 --> 02:40:51,120
invited back.

3738
02:40:51,120 --> 02:40:52,870
>> That's my understanding as well.

3739
02:40:52,870 --> 02:40:52,880
» That's my understanding as well.

3740
02:40:52,880 --> 02:40:54,950
>> Okay, great. So I think we've reached a

3741
02:40:54,950 --> 02:40:54,960
» Okay, great. So I think we've reached a

3742
02:40:54,960 --> 02:40:55,840
final decision.

3743
02:40:55,840 --> 02:40:57,429
>> I'm sorry this is so hard. It just it's

3744
02:40:57,429 --> 02:40:57,439
» I'm sorry this is so hard. It just it's

3745
02:40:57,439 --> 02:41:02,160
a hard issue. Thank you. Okay. So, so

3746
02:41:02,160 --> 02:41:04,479
Council Member Hawky, I texted her to

3747
02:41:04,479 --> 02:41:06,080
return. Is she back?

3748
02:41:06,080 --> 02:41:09,030
>> Okay.

3749
02:41:09,030 --> 02:41:09,040
» Okay.

3750
02:41:09,040 --> 02:41:11,190
>> Hello everyone.

3751
02:41:11,190 --> 02:41:11,200
» Hello everyone.

3752
02:41:11,200 --> 02:41:14,309
>> Hello. Hello. So, we've been um I've

3753
02:41:14,309 --> 02:41:14,319
» Hello. Hello. So, we've been um I've

3754
02:41:14,319 --> 02:41:16,240
been monologuing. I know that surprises

3755
02:41:16,240 --> 02:41:18,880
you. [clears throat] So, we would love

3756
02:41:18,880 --> 02:41:21,040
for you to kind of share your questions,

3757
02:41:21,040 --> 02:41:22,640
your thoughts, your concerns, and I'll

3758
02:41:22,640 --> 02:41:25,120
uh have the subcommittee respond with

3759
02:41:25,120 --> 02:41:27,040
you uh similarly.

3760
02:41:27,040 --> 02:41:29,190
>> Thank you. One of the questions I've

3761
02:41:29,190 --> 02:41:29,200
» Thank you. One of the questions I've

3762
02:41:29,200 --> 02:41:31,600
been thinking about is sort of how

3763
02:41:31,600 --> 02:41:34,880
assuming the city can't afford to take

3764
02:41:34,880 --> 02:41:38,080
all private roads in at once. Is there

3765
02:41:38,080 --> 02:41:41,120
going to be some sort of prioritization

3766
02:41:41,120 --> 02:41:43,680
of what types of private roads we're

3767
02:41:43,680 --> 02:41:46,479
most interested in helping with

3768
02:41:46,479 --> 02:41:48,640
maintenance such as maybe through roads

3769
02:41:48,640 --> 02:41:50,640
or roads that could be an evacuation

3770
02:41:50,640 --> 02:41:54,880
route or um roads that are already in

3771
02:41:54,880 --> 02:41:56,560
great shape? I mean, is there any sort

3772
02:41:56,560 --> 02:41:59,280
of prioritization as part of this

3773
02:41:59,280 --> 02:42:02,950
framework.

3774
02:42:02,960 --> 02:42:04,160
» I think not yet.

3775
02:42:04,160 --> 02:42:06,630
>> I mean, it's not an issue that's been um

3776
02:42:06,630 --> 02:42:06,640
» I mean, it's not an issue that's been um

3777
02:42:06,640 --> 02:42:08,560
talked about yet, Council Member Hawky.

3778
02:42:08,560 --> 02:42:10,399
I mean, it's certainly I would certainly

3779
02:42:10,399 --> 02:42:12,080
say it

3780
02:42:12,080 --> 02:42:14,389
>> would easily be on the table in the

3781
02:42:14,389 --> 02:42:14,399
» would easily be on the table in the

3782
02:42:14,399 --> 02:42:16,240
sense that

3783
02:42:16,240 --> 02:42:17,920
when you weren't with us, Council Member

3784
02:42:17,920 --> 02:42:20,080
Malcani explained

3785
02:42:20,080 --> 02:42:23,040
this. I think this is envisioned maybe

3786
02:42:23,040 --> 02:42:24,960
not by everybody and certainly by not

3787
02:42:24,960 --> 02:42:27,359
every member of our public, but I think

3788
02:42:27,359 --> 02:42:30,560
there's a recognition that this might be

3789
02:42:30,560 --> 02:42:32,800
a pretty lengthy process.

3790
02:42:32,800 --> 02:42:33,670
>> Absolutely.

3791
02:42:33,670 --> 02:42:33,680
» Absolutely.

3792
02:42:33,680 --> 02:42:34,710
>> You [laughter] know, it's something

3793
02:42:34,710 --> 02:42:34,720
» You [laughter] know, it's something

3794
02:42:34,720 --> 02:42:36,080
that's going to happen overnight,

3795
02:42:36,080 --> 02:42:37,270
>> right? It's not like we're going to take

3796
02:42:37,270 --> 02:42:37,280
» right? It's not like we're going to take

3797
02:42:37,280 --> 02:42:40,720
in 20 people of roads overnight. I agree

3798
02:42:40,720 --> 02:42:41,600
with that.

3799
02:42:41,600 --> 02:42:43,190
>> Yeah. Anytime you have something that

3800
02:42:43,190 --> 02:42:43,200
» Yeah. Anytime you have something that

3801
02:42:43,200 --> 02:42:44,800
might take a a right

3802
02:42:44,800 --> 02:42:46,950
>> a significant period of time, it makes

3803
02:42:46,950 --> 02:42:46,960
» a significant period of time, it makes

3804
02:42:46,960 --> 02:42:49,040
sense that you would ultimately probably

3805
02:42:49,040 --> 02:42:51,040
end up with, you know, what do you do

3806
02:42:51,040 --> 02:42:52,560
first, second, third,

3807
02:42:52,560 --> 02:42:54,389
>> right? I mean, there's some roads that I

3808
02:42:54,389 --> 02:42:54,399
» right? I mean, there's some roads that I

3809
02:42:54,399 --> 02:42:58,720
know of that, you know, are clearly more

3810
02:42:58,720 --> 02:43:01,359
problematic than others. For instance, I

3811
02:43:01,359 --> 02:43:03,200
think up near the top of Elway now,

3812
02:43:03,200 --> 02:43:04,800
there's a private road that's actually a

3813
02:43:04,800 --> 02:43:06,880
through road that could be an evacuation

3814
02:43:06,880 --> 02:43:08,240
that really you can't pass through

3815
02:43:08,240 --> 02:43:09,840
without a four-wheel drive vehicle at

3816
02:43:09,840 --> 02:43:11,920
this point because it's in such bad

3817
02:43:11,920 --> 02:43:13,920
repair. You know, at some point, we have

3818
02:43:13,920 --> 02:43:15,760
to decide, is that the sort of thing the

3819
02:43:15,760 --> 02:43:18,560
city wants to help those homeowners deal

3820
02:43:18,560 --> 02:43:20,720
with because they obviously seem

3821
02:43:20,720 --> 02:43:22,720
incapable of doing it on their own

3822
02:43:22,720 --> 02:43:24,080
because they haven't for all these

3823
02:43:24,080 --> 02:43:28,319
years. Um and then

3824
02:43:28,319 --> 02:43:31,439
I one of the issues that I have faced on

3825
02:43:31,439 --> 02:43:34,319
my own road is just particularly visav

3826
02:43:34,319 --> 02:43:36,560
storm drains how difficult it is to

3827
02:43:36,560 --> 02:43:38,800
actually get a contractor to respond to

3828
02:43:38,800 --> 02:43:41,359
a private homeowner. And so one of the

3829
02:43:41,359 --> 02:43:43,520
things that I think the city could do to

3830
02:43:43,520 --> 02:43:46,560
help in the interim would be to just

3831
02:43:46,560 --> 02:43:49,040
help, you know, willing groups of

3832
02:43:49,040 --> 02:43:52,319
homeowners access the contractors who

3833
02:43:52,319 --> 02:43:54,479
can do the kind of work they may need to

3834
02:43:54,479 --> 02:43:56,800
get done because some of these

3835
02:43:56,800 --> 02:43:58,640
contractors are used to having big city

3836
02:43:58,640 --> 02:44:01,200
contracts and they're not used to

3837
02:44:01,200 --> 02:44:05,359
dealing with small homeowner groups.

3838
02:44:05,359 --> 02:44:09,120
One thing that was has been discussed in

3839
02:44:09,120 --> 02:44:11,279
the infrastructure committee and has

3840
02:44:11,279 --> 02:44:13,120
been brought up a lot by residents,

3841
02:44:13,120 --> 02:44:14,640
council member Hawky, is what you're

3842
02:44:14,640 --> 02:44:16,960
talking about exactly, which is that

3843
02:44:16,960 --> 02:44:21,200
folks have said some that yes, it is

3844
02:44:21,200 --> 02:44:23,200
very frustrating for a group of

3845
02:44:23,200 --> 02:44:26,000
homeowners to try to figure out how

3846
02:44:26,000 --> 02:44:28,560
they're supposed to, you know,

3847
02:44:28,560 --> 02:44:30,240
basically. So, you know,

3848
02:44:30,240 --> 02:44:31,750
>> act like the city.

3849
02:44:31,750 --> 02:44:31,760
» act like the city.

3850
02:44:31,760 --> 02:44:33,110
>> Yeah.

3851
02:44:33,110 --> 02:44:33,120
» Yeah.

3852
02:44:33,120 --> 02:44:36,560
fix a fix a road up to up to, you know,

3853
02:44:36,560 --> 02:44:37,920
correct standards. So there's

3854
02:44:37,920 --> 02:44:39,349
>> it's not even the pavement. I think

3855
02:44:39,349 --> 02:44:39,359
» it's not even the pavement. I think

3856
02:44:39,359 --> 02:44:41,200
that's so hard. I think the pavement is

3857
02:44:41,200 --> 02:44:43,279
the easier aspect of it. It's the storm

3858
02:44:43,279 --> 02:44:45,600
drains because they're under the roads

3859
02:44:45,600 --> 02:44:47,760
generally or next to them. They're

3860
02:44:47,760 --> 02:44:50,000
they're harder when they back up. It's

3861
02:44:50,000 --> 02:44:52,160
usually a crisis, right? Because

3862
02:44:52,160 --> 02:44:54,399
someone's house is getting flooded. You

3863
02:44:54,399 --> 02:44:56,560
know, water flows downhill. So the water

3864
02:44:56,560 --> 02:44:58,240
going through those drains isn't coming

3865
02:44:58,240 --> 02:45:00,560
from necessarily your road. it may be

3866
02:45:00,560 --> 02:45:02,160
coming from the public road above you,

3867
02:45:02,160 --> 02:45:05,120
right? So, I think those are some of the

3868
02:45:05,120 --> 02:45:07,439
more difficult issues to deal with and

3869
02:45:07,439 --> 02:45:09,520
they tend to be need require being dealt

3870
02:45:09,520 --> 02:45:11,200
with in a very timely fashion or you're

3871
02:45:11,200 --> 02:45:14,800
going to have some real damage. Um, so I

3872
02:45:14,800 --> 02:45:16,720
I would like to see if we could include

3873
02:45:16,720 --> 02:45:19,040
something to address those kinds of

3874
02:45:19,040 --> 02:45:22,960
issues as an interim step maybe. Just a

3875
02:45:22,960 --> 02:45:24,399
thought.

3876
02:45:24,399 --> 02:45:26,240
So the things that have been discussed

3877
02:45:26,240 --> 02:45:28,720
are the need for technical assistance,

3878
02:45:28,720 --> 02:45:30,800
the need for technical assistance in

3879
02:45:30,800 --> 02:45:33,439
terms of you know helping to find

3880
02:45:33,439 --> 02:45:35,279
contractors in terms of forming

3881
02:45:35,279 --> 02:45:38,640
assessment districts and um the exact

3882
02:45:38,640 --> 02:45:41,439
scenario that you just mentioned in

3883
02:45:41,439 --> 02:45:45,040
terms of you know uh dealing with all

3884
02:45:45,040 --> 02:45:46,960
the drainage issues including the

3885
02:45:46,960 --> 02:45:49,600
scenario you just mentioned have been

3886
02:45:49,600 --> 02:45:51,990
>> good okay well I'm sorry [laughter] so

3887
02:45:51,990 --> 02:45:52,000
» good okay well I'm sorry [laughter] so

3888
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:53,359
you what you're saying it's resonating

3889
02:45:53,359 --> 02:45:55,520
including with our audience.

3890
02:45:55,520 --> 02:45:57,910
>> But good. I I I'm glad we're discussing

3891
02:45:57,910 --> 02:45:57,920
» But good. I I I'm glad we're discussing

3892
02:45:57,920 --> 02:46:00,800
this and I'm happy to see we're

3893
02:46:00,800 --> 02:46:03,190
>> at least addressing these issues with a

3894
02:46:03,190 --> 02:46:03,200
» at least addressing these issues with a

3895
02:46:03,200 --> 02:46:05,439
willingness to help homeowners because I

3896
02:46:05,439 --> 02:46:07,840
think that's what's been missing. Um so

3897
02:46:07,840 --> 02:46:09,760
I'm very appreciative of the work the

3898
02:46:09,760 --> 02:46:12,080
infrastructure committee has done and

3899
02:46:12,080 --> 02:46:14,399
the direction we're going understanding

3900
02:46:14,399 --> 02:46:17,040
that it's a long process. It's not like

3901
02:46:17,040 --> 02:46:19,840
we're going to deal with issues all at

3902
02:46:19,840 --> 02:46:21,760
once.

3903
02:46:21,760 --> 02:46:26,319
So, what I'm hearing um is that the

3904
02:46:26,319 --> 02:46:30,960
council would like staff to uh work

3905
02:46:30,960 --> 02:46:32,240
closely with the infrastructure

3906
02:46:32,240 --> 02:46:35,120
committee and come up with more specific

3907
02:46:35,120 --> 02:46:36,640
solutions,

3908
02:46:36,640 --> 02:46:38,720
additional financial analysis. So the

3909
02:46:38,720 --> 02:46:41,920
impact of any changes and really put a

3910
02:46:41,920 --> 02:46:44,800
lot of staff effort and time into coming

3911
02:46:44,800 --> 02:46:47,359
up with solutions

3912
02:46:47,359 --> 02:46:50,960
like a range of solutions, not simply a

3913
02:46:50,960 --> 02:46:52,880
change of an ordinance or a resolution,

3914
02:46:52,880 --> 02:46:57,359
but more broad programmatic

3915
02:46:57,359 --> 02:47:00,080
options to bring back for the council's

3916
02:47:00,080 --> 02:47:02,720
consideration. So, I think we just

3917
02:47:02,720 --> 02:47:05,600
wanted to check in before we spend an a

3918
02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:07,439
significant amount of staff time, which

3919
02:47:07,439 --> 02:47:09,760
is what I think this next phase is going

3920
02:47:09,760 --> 02:47:11,840
to entail, and make sure we weren't

3921
02:47:11,840 --> 02:47:14,560
completely off track. The work plan says

3922
02:47:14,560 --> 02:47:17,359
things like explore ideas, discuss and

3923
02:47:17,359 --> 02:47:21,520
develop options. And um it sounds like

3924
02:47:21,520 --> 02:47:23,680
what the council would like to see is

3925
02:47:23,680 --> 02:47:26,080
some financial

3926
02:47:26,080 --> 02:47:28,479
um coupling of what those solutions

3927
02:47:28,479 --> 02:47:31,120
could be. uh and what sort of impact

3928
02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:33,520
they could potentially have on our

3929
02:47:33,520 --> 02:47:35,760
general fund or any funding that we have

3930
02:47:35,760 --> 02:47:38,880
available long term, right? And then

3931
02:47:38,880 --> 02:47:41,040
staff can also present back to

3932
02:47:41,040 --> 02:47:42,399
infrastructure committee and back to the

3933
02:47:42,399 --> 02:47:45,040
council the resources that we have to

3934
02:47:45,040 --> 02:47:48,080
support a large

3935
02:47:48,080 --> 02:47:50,080
program,

3936
02:47:50,080 --> 02:47:52,720
right? because we're pretty small. If

3937
02:47:52,720 --> 02:47:54,960
you haven't seen less than 40 employees

3938
02:47:54,960 --> 02:47:57,200
and to do something that's fairly

3939
02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:00,000
significant would be

3940
02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:02,070
>> it'd be a lift, right?

3941
02:48:02,070 --> 02:48:02,080
» it'd be a lift, right?

3942
02:48:02,080 --> 02:48:03,510
>> We could talk about all of those things,

3943
02:48:03,510 --> 02:48:03,520
» We could talk about all of those things,

3944
02:48:03,520 --> 02:48:06,800
but we didn't want to engage too far

3945
02:48:06,800 --> 02:48:08,640
down that pathway. We had just gotten

3946
02:48:08,640 --> 02:48:10,240
through all the data collection

3947
02:48:10,240 --> 02:48:12,000
basically, right? Data collection,

3948
02:48:12,000 --> 02:48:15,200
questionnaires, PCIs, we're doing the

3949
02:48:15,200 --> 02:48:16,640
mapping of the storm drains. We're doing

3950
02:48:16,640 --> 02:48:18,160
all these things. We've got most of the

3951
02:48:18,160 --> 02:48:20,399
data now. And so now it's like well what

3952
02:48:20,399 --> 02:48:21,760
do we do with all this? We need to come

3953
02:48:21,760 --> 02:48:26,160
back and check in and say um 5918 has

3954
02:48:26,160 --> 02:48:28,720
been mentioned as an impediment. Uh so

3955
02:48:28,720 --> 02:48:31,040
how do we clear that hurdle? But but

3956
02:48:31,040 --> 02:48:32,640
tell us all the other things that are

3957
02:48:32,640 --> 02:48:34,319
out there that other communities are

3958
02:48:34,319 --> 02:48:36,319
doing. So that's where we're at. But it

3959
02:48:36,319 --> 02:48:38,720
sounds like the council is okay with

3960
02:48:38,720 --> 02:48:40,399
infrastructure committee really diving

3961
02:48:40,399 --> 02:48:43,120
into program development at this point

3962
02:48:43,120 --> 02:48:46,880
with with financial um implications for

3963
02:48:46,880 --> 02:48:48,640
what those could be. And just again, I

3964
02:48:48,640 --> 02:48:50,000
hope everybody chimes in with their

3965
02:48:50,000 --> 02:48:53,439
reactions. Uh definitely agree. You

3966
02:48:53,439 --> 02:48:55,359
know, I would just reiterate hearing you

3967
02:48:55,359 --> 02:48:56,640
talk about all the work that's been

3968
02:48:56,640 --> 02:48:58,399
done. That initial scope, I mean, when

3969
02:48:58,399 --> 02:49:00,800
we started everything that the committee

3970
02:49:00,800 --> 02:49:03,120
has already done, that was like the

3971
02:49:03,120 --> 02:49:05,040
first 10 bites of the elephant, right?

3972
02:49:05,040 --> 02:49:07,359
It was a huge undertaking because we

3973
02:49:07,359 --> 02:49:10,000
didn't even have the most basic data.

3974
02:49:10,000 --> 02:49:11,279
And so people would talk about the

3975
02:49:11,279 --> 02:49:13,760
private roads issue was with these gross

3976
02:49:13,760 --> 02:49:15,840
generalizations. And so, believe it or

3977
02:49:15,840 --> 02:49:17,439
not, that was not just gathering the

3978
02:49:17,439 --> 02:49:19,120
data to get started. That was in and of

3979
02:49:19,120 --> 02:49:21,200
itself accomplishing some really

3980
02:49:21,200 --> 02:49:22,800
significant

3981
02:49:22,800 --> 02:49:25,520
meaningful tasks. So, I actually wanted

3982
02:49:25,520 --> 02:49:28,560
to just take a moment to put a big in

3983
02:49:28,560 --> 02:49:31,680
the column for everything that that

3984
02:49:31,680 --> 02:49:33,680
committee has already achieved. Um,

3985
02:49:33,680 --> 02:49:34,960
because the committee could have stopped

3986
02:49:34,960 --> 02:49:36,319
right there and that still would have

3987
02:49:36,319 --> 02:49:38,720
been a tremendous accomplishment. I

3988
02:49:38,720 --> 02:49:40,720
think the what I'm hearing you say is

3989
02:49:40,720 --> 02:49:43,200
it's actually time to define to go back

3990
02:49:43,200 --> 02:49:45,279
to the scope of work now that we've done

3991
02:49:45,279 --> 02:49:49,359
80% of phase one and figure out what the

3992
02:49:49,359 --> 02:49:53,040
definition of phase 2 looks like right

3993
02:49:53,040 --> 02:49:54,960
what what is the appropriate scope of

3994
02:49:54,960 --> 02:49:56,960
work and come back and maybe get some

3995
02:49:56,960 --> 02:49:58,640
buy in on that and and just when you

3996
02:49:58,640 --> 02:50:00,160
mentioned financial analysis what I

3997
02:50:00,160 --> 02:50:02,800
don't want to do is have everybody waste

3998
02:50:02,800 --> 02:50:07,760
a bunch of time quantifying um

3999
02:50:07,760 --> 02:50:09,279
you

4000
02:50:09,279 --> 02:50:11,200
financial analysis for its own sake. I

4001
02:50:11,200 --> 02:50:15,040
would actually my hope is that the

4002
02:50:15,040 --> 02:50:17,040
whoever and it's probably Doug or

4003
02:50:17,040 --> 02:50:19,520
someone on his team could look at the

4004
02:50:19,520 --> 02:50:23,279
HOA kind of structural finance problem

4005
02:50:23,279 --> 02:50:24,640
and really start with some of the things

4006
02:50:24,640 --> 02:50:26,880
that Vice Mayor G said about what

4007
02:50:26,880 --> 02:50:29,439
proportion of all of the ways you fund

4008
02:50:29,439 --> 02:50:32,399
road projects is property tax versus the

4009
02:50:32,399 --> 02:50:35,600
other soup of funding sources. How big

4010
02:50:35,600 --> 02:50:39,760
is the problem really? And are there,

4011
02:50:39,760 --> 02:50:41,040
you know, are there constructive ways

4012
02:50:41,040 --> 02:50:42,399
that we could do it? So, I would look at

4013
02:50:42,399 --> 02:50:44,960
it not as a just numbers for the sake of

4014
02:50:44,960 --> 02:50:48,080
numbers, but really with an eye to how

4015
02:50:48,080 --> 02:50:51,279
could we get past that obstacle that has

4016
02:50:51,279 --> 02:50:54,160
always stopped us in the past. And

4017
02:50:54,160 --> 02:50:55,750
>> it's great.

4018
02:50:55,750 --> 02:50:55,760
» it's great.

4019
02:50:55,760 --> 02:50:57,030
>> Again, just speaking for my own

4020
02:50:57,030 --> 02:50:57,040
» Again, just speaking for my own

4021
02:50:57,040 --> 02:51:02,389
reactions to your feedback.

4022
02:51:02,399 --> 02:51:03,920
» Subcommittee

4023
02:51:03,920 --> 02:51:05,840
thoughts. I'm I'm accepting of that

4024
02:51:05,840 --> 02:51:07,680
feedback if you have consensus of your

4025
02:51:07,680 --> 02:51:09,439
colleagues to that that's the approach

4026
02:51:09,439 --> 02:51:13,439
you'd like to take. H

4027
02:51:13,439 --> 02:51:19,510
>> I guess how

4028
02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:22,479
how is that different from sort of what

4029
02:51:22,479 --> 02:51:26,240
the city manager described earlier?

4030
02:51:26,240 --> 02:51:30,630
Is it just more

4031
02:51:30,640 --> 02:51:33,439
just more detail?

4032
02:51:33,439 --> 02:51:33,760
right

4033
02:51:33,760 --> 02:51:34,790
>> significantly more.

4034
02:51:34,790 --> 02:51:34,800
» significantly more.

4035
02:51:34,800 --> 02:51:38,950
>> I mean, I do think that [sighs]

4036
02:51:38,960 --> 02:51:43,760
Yeah, I'm I think that makes sense. I I

4037
02:51:43,760 --> 02:51:46,560
do feel like we should probably have

4038
02:51:46,560 --> 02:51:48,399
things

4039
02:51:48,399 --> 02:51:51,760
continue to,

4040
02:51:51,760 --> 02:51:54,560
you know, come back

4041
02:51:54,560 --> 02:51:58,080
so that we also don't go down a rabbit

4042
02:51:58,080 --> 02:52:00,640
hole of a really intensive staff

4043
02:52:00,640 --> 02:52:02,319
analysis

4044
02:52:02,319 --> 02:52:04,720
where we without making sure we have

4045
02:52:04,720 --> 02:52:06,800
consensus because I don't want to waste

4046
02:52:06,800 --> 02:52:08,960
we don't have a lot of staff. We we

4047
02:52:08,960 --> 02:52:10,720
staff time is precious and I don't want

4048
02:52:10,720 --> 02:52:13,359
to waste any of it. So I

4049
02:52:13,359 --> 02:52:15,349
>> and realistically I think

4050
02:52:15,349 --> 02:52:15,359
» and realistically I think

4051
02:52:15,359 --> 02:52:17,990
>> there's there probably needs I mean

4052
02:52:17,990 --> 02:52:18,000
» there's there probably needs I mean

4053
02:52:18,000 --> 02:52:21,439
depending on I mean there's all kinds of

4054
02:52:21,439 --> 02:52:23,840
ways we can approach it but at some

4055
02:52:23,840 --> 02:52:26,640
point quite honestly part of it probably

4056
02:52:26,640 --> 02:52:29,840
requires additional outside resources.

4057
02:52:29,840 --> 02:52:31,840
There probably is a short-term fiscal

4058
02:52:31,840 --> 02:52:35,600
component as well because to be able to

4059
02:52:35,600 --> 02:52:38,240
answer a lot of questions that both the

4060
02:52:38,240 --> 02:52:40,800
council and the community wants to have

4061
02:52:40,800 --> 02:52:44,720
some meat on the bones um is going to

4062
02:52:44,720 --> 02:52:46,960
probably take more than what we can do

4063
02:52:46,960 --> 02:52:48,319
inhouse I would assume.

4064
02:52:48,319 --> 02:52:50,550
>> Yeah.

4065
02:52:50,550 --> 02:52:50,560
» Yeah.

4066
02:52:50,560 --> 02:52:52,720
So, if there's consensus that we would

4067
02:52:52,720 --> 02:52:55,279
be going back and expending more

4068
02:52:55,279 --> 02:52:57,600
resources, including maybe consultant

4069
02:52:57,600 --> 02:53:01,040
resources to flesh out opportunities for

4070
02:53:01,040 --> 02:53:03,520
program development, we could do that.

4071
02:53:03,520 --> 02:53:07,279
Um, I'll I'll work with the staff and uh

4072
02:53:07,279 --> 02:53:08,640
probably won't be ready for your next

4073
02:53:08,640 --> 02:53:10,080
infrastructure committee, but we can

4074
02:53:10,080 --> 02:53:13,279
have um additional discussion at the

4075
02:53:13,279 --> 02:53:15,040
next meeting, which I think is on the

4076
02:53:15,040 --> 02:53:17,439
19th. I might be getting that wrong, but

4077
02:53:17,439 --> 02:53:19,200
it's coming up this month. I think it's

4078
02:53:19,200 --> 02:53:20,880
the 16th is our next meeting.

4079
02:53:20,880 --> 02:53:23,269
>> You're right. So, it's only in two

4080
02:53:23,269 --> 02:53:23,279
» You're right. So, it's only in two

4081
02:53:23,279 --> 02:53:25,279
weeks. So, we'll we'll work towards um

4082
02:53:25,279 --> 02:53:26,880
putting something on that agenda or we

4083
02:53:26,880 --> 02:53:29,840
can continue this conversation um and

4084
02:53:29,840 --> 02:53:33,040
the outcomes of this meeting to frame up

4085
02:53:33,040 --> 02:53:35,520
what uh program development looks like

4086
02:53:35,520 --> 02:53:36,000
for

4087
02:53:36,000 --> 02:53:37,830
>> Yeah. Maybe we can discuss if there's an

4088
02:53:37,830 --> 02:53:37,840
» Yeah. Maybe we can discuss if there's an

4089
02:53:37,840 --> 02:53:40,160
efficient way to to approach program

4090
02:53:40,160 --> 02:53:40,960
development,

4091
02:53:40,960 --> 02:53:41,429
>> right?

4092
02:53:41,429 --> 02:53:41,439
» right?

4093
02:53:41,439 --> 02:53:43,190
>> That might be a good topic for our next

4094
02:53:43,190 --> 02:53:43,200
» That might be a good topic for our next

4095
02:53:43,200 --> 02:53:43,680
meeting.

4096
02:53:43,680 --> 02:53:45,510
>> Yeah. Thank you. Council member Hawky,

4097
02:53:45,510 --> 02:53:45,520
» Yeah. Thank you. Council member Hawky,

4098
02:53:45,520 --> 02:53:46,880
did you have any final thoughts? I know

4099
02:53:46,880 --> 02:53:48,479
we we didn't get to involve you as much

4100
02:53:48,479 --> 02:53:49,760
as we would have liked.

4101
02:53:49,760 --> 02:53:51,830
>> No, thank you, mayor. I'm very happy

4102
02:53:51,830 --> 02:53:51,840
» No, thank you, mayor. I'm very happy

4103
02:53:51,840 --> 02:53:54,080
that we're moving down this road. I

4104
02:53:54,080 --> 02:53:56,479
think everyone is thinking about it in a

4105
02:53:56,479 --> 02:53:58,800
very rational, systematic, thoughtful

4106
02:53:58,800 --> 02:54:02,160
way. And so, I'm I'm happy with the work

4107
02:54:02,160 --> 02:54:04,479
we've done. I I agree with your comments

4108
02:54:04,479 --> 02:54:06,960
about just the mapping and the, you

4109
02:54:06,960 --> 02:54:08,800
know, understanding the condition of the

4110
02:54:08,800 --> 02:54:10,319
roads and the situation we currently

4111
02:54:10,319 --> 02:54:12,880
have right now is helpful. and I'm

4112
02:54:12,880 --> 02:54:14,399
hopeful that we can come up with some

4113
02:54:14,399 --> 02:54:16,720
creative solutions that will address

4114
02:54:16,720 --> 02:54:20,160
some of these issues going forward.

4115
02:54:20,160 --> 02:54:22,150
>> Thank you. And just one final thank you

4116
02:54:22,150 --> 02:54:22,160
» Thank you. And just one final thank you

4117
02:54:22,160 --> 02:54:24,319
to our infrastructure subcommittee and

4118
02:54:24,319 --> 02:54:28,000
to staff. I this has already been a huge

4119
02:54:28,000 --> 02:54:29,920
huge effort of time, but I actually

4120
02:54:29,920 --> 02:54:31,600
think you're doing something very

4121
02:54:31,600 --> 02:54:34,240
important for the city and um I just I

4122
02:54:34,240 --> 02:54:36,080
these are tough conversations, but

4123
02:54:36,080 --> 02:54:38,160
really really thank you both.

4124
02:54:38,160 --> 02:54:41,429
>> Well, to that end, credit really goes to

4125
02:54:41,429 --> 02:54:41,439
» Well, to that end, credit really goes to

4126
02:54:41,439 --> 02:54:44,720
staff. I think I mean it it and to our

4127
02:54:44,720 --> 02:54:46,880
residents for uh continuing to show up

4128
02:54:46,880 --> 02:54:49,840
again and again and talking with us.

4129
02:54:49,840 --> 02:54:52,150
>> And with that just it's getting late so

4130
02:54:52,150 --> 02:54:52,160
» And with that just it's getting late so

4131
02:54:52,160 --> 02:54:54,160
I'm going to move this along to item H.

4132
02:54:54,160 --> 02:54:55,110
>> Mayor.

4133
02:54:55,110 --> 02:54:55,120
» Mayor.

4134
02:54:55,120 --> 02:54:55,670
>> Yes.

4135
02:54:55,670 --> 02:54:55,680
» Yes.

4136
02:54:55,680 --> 02:54:57,670
>> I'm sorry to interrupt but unfortunately

4137
02:54:57,670 --> 02:54:57,680
» I'm sorry to interrupt but unfortunately

4138
02:54:57,680 --> 02:54:59,840
I'm going to need to sign off now. I'm

4139
02:54:59,840 --> 02:55:02,160
hoping given the lateness of the evening

4140
02:55:02,160 --> 02:55:05,120
that we could postpone item H4 until our

4141
02:55:05,120 --> 02:55:07,680
next meeting.

4142
02:55:07,680 --> 02:55:10,309
>> And we also have item H3 we haven't gone

4143
02:55:10,309 --> 02:55:10,319
» And we also have item H3 we haven't gone

4144
02:55:10,319 --> 02:55:12,800
to yet either. She was just asking if H4

4145
02:55:12,800 --> 02:55:14,000
because I believe um

4146
02:55:14,000 --> 02:55:15,429
>> that was my item. Yeah.

4147
02:55:15,429 --> 02:55:15,439
» that was my item. Yeah.

4148
02:55:15,439 --> 02:55:17,830
>> If you were to reorder H4 or do you need

4149
02:55:17,830 --> 02:55:17,840
» If you were to reorder H4 or do you need

4150
02:55:17,840 --> 02:55:18,880
to go kind of right now?

4151
02:55:18,880 --> 02:55:21,510
>> I really kind of need to go. It's

4152
02:55:21,510 --> 02:55:21,520
» I really kind of need to go. It's

4153
02:55:21,520 --> 02:55:22,230
>> that's fine.

4154
02:55:22,230 --> 02:55:22,240
» that's fine.

4155
02:55:22,240 --> 02:55:24,870
>> Haven't had dinner and it's just about 8

4156
02:55:24,870 --> 02:55:24,880
» Haven't had dinner and it's just about 8

4157
02:55:24,880 --> 02:55:26,880
o'clock here and the where natives are

4158
02:55:26,880 --> 02:55:29,359
getting hungry. [laughter]

4159
02:55:29,359 --> 02:55:34,150
>> Um I I would um be happy to defer item

4160
02:55:34,150 --> 02:55:34,160
» Um I I would um be happy to defer item

4161
02:55:34,160 --> 02:55:35,520
H4. City manager. Do you have any

4162
02:55:35,520 --> 02:55:36,319
concerns about that?

4163
02:55:36,319 --> 02:55:39,110
>> I don't. I'll make a motion. Do I have a

4164
02:55:39,110 --> 02:55:39,120
» I don't. I'll make a motion. Do I have a

4165
02:55:39,120 --> 02:55:40,560
second?

4166
02:55:40,560 --> 02:55:42,000
I'll second.

4167
02:55:42,000 --> 02:55:44,230
>> Okay. Um Okay, great. And if we can

4168
02:55:44,230 --> 02:55:44,240
» Okay. Um Okay, great. And if we can

4169
02:55:44,240 --> 02:55:45,520
please get a roll call vote. Um do we

4170
02:55:45,520 --> 02:55:47,520
want to make that to a date certain?

4171
02:55:47,520 --> 02:55:49,349
>> I can bring it back at the next meeting.

4172
02:55:49,349 --> 02:55:49,359
» I can bring it back at the next meeting.

4173
02:55:49,359 --> 02:55:50,319
Great.

4174
02:55:50,319 --> 02:55:51,990
>> Council member Moani

4175
02:55:51,990 --> 02:55:52,000
» Council member Moani

4176
02:55:52,000 --> 02:55:53,349
>> I. Hawky

4177
02:55:53,349 --> 02:55:53,359
» I. Hawky

4178
02:55:53,359 --> 02:55:54,070
>> I.

4179
02:55:54,070 --> 02:55:54,080
» I.

4180
02:55:54,080 --> 02:55:54,950
>> G I.

4181
02:55:54,950 --> 02:55:54,960
» G I.

4182
02:55:54,960 --> 02:55:55,750
>> Iverson

4183
02:55:55,750 --> 02:55:55,760
» Iverson

4184
02:55:55,760 --> 02:55:58,710
>> I thank you and thank you for uh

4185
02:55:58,710 --> 02:55:58,720
» I thank you and thank you for uh

4186
02:55:58,720 --> 02:56:00,000
attending remotely. Council member

4187
02:56:00,000 --> 02:56:01,760
Hawky. I'm sorry to miss the

4188
02:56:01,760 --> 02:56:04,880
conversation on the housing law uh study

4189
02:56:04,880 --> 02:56:06,399
session, but I will catch up with the

4190
02:56:06,399 --> 02:56:08,880
city manager and I'm sure this is a

4191
02:56:08,880 --> 02:56:10,960
first conversation, not a last. So,

4192
02:56:10,960 --> 02:56:12,720
we'll have more opportunities to discuss

4193
02:56:12,720 --> 02:56:13,840
it together

4194
02:56:13,840 --> 02:56:16,790
>> and it's posted on YouTube if you've got

4195
02:56:16,790 --> 02:56:16,800
» and it's posted on YouTube if you've got

4196
02:56:16,800 --> 02:56:19,120
the uh the time and availability.

4197
02:56:19,120 --> 02:56:19,830
>> Always

4198
02:56:19,830 --> 02:56:19,840
» Always

4199
02:56:19,840 --> 02:56:21,670
>> you can always catch up. Thank you very

4200
02:56:21,670 --> 02:56:21,680
» you can always catch up. Thank you very

4201
02:56:21,680 --> 02:56:22,160
much.

4202
02:56:22,160 --> 02:56:25,269
>> Thank you. Sorry to to bug off. Okay.

4203
02:56:25,269 --> 02:56:25,279
» Thank you. Sorry to to bug off. Okay.

4204
02:56:25,279 --> 02:56:25,990
>> Byebye.

4205
02:56:25,990 --> 02:56:26,000
» Byebye.

4206
02:56:26,000 --> 02:56:29,349
>> Um byebye. We will turn now to item H3,

4207
02:56:29,349 --> 02:56:29,359
» Um byebye. We will turn now to item H3,

4208
02:56:29,359 --> 02:56:32,479
the study session on Senate Bill 1123.

4209
02:56:32,479 --> 02:56:33,910
>> I was going to say, Madame Mayor, before

4210
02:56:33,910 --> 02:56:33,920
» I was going to say, Madame Mayor, before

4211
02:56:33,920 --> 02:56:35,920
we do that, given the hour, should we

4212
02:56:35,920 --> 02:56:38,800
just go ahead and extend the meeting?

4213
02:56:38,800 --> 02:56:40,870
>> Uh, yes, city manager, how long do you

4214
02:56:40,870 --> 02:56:40,880
» Uh, yes, city manager, how long do you

4215
02:56:40,880 --> 02:56:43,520
um boy, this is going to be a test for

4216
02:56:43,520 --> 02:56:46,880
Darren Hughes to get under a 10-minute

4217
02:56:46,880 --> 02:56:49,600
presentation.

4218
02:56:49,600 --> 02:56:51,750
>> Well,

4219
02:56:51,750 --> 02:56:51,760
» Well,

4220
02:56:51,760 --> 02:56:54,469
>> I thought you started to just say no.

4221
02:56:54,469 --> 02:56:54,479
» I thought you started to just say no.

4222
02:56:54,479 --> 02:56:56,710
>> I almost wanted to. Under 10 minutes,

4223
02:56:56,710 --> 02:56:56,720
» I almost wanted to. Under 10 minutes,

4224
02:56:56,720 --> 02:56:57,359
Darren.

4225
02:56:57,359 --> 02:56:58,230
>> Okay, I will do it.

4226
02:56:58,230 --> 02:56:58,240
» Okay, I will do it.

4227
02:56:58,240 --> 02:57:00,469
>> Uh, how long should we extend the

4228
02:57:00,469 --> 02:57:00,479
» Uh, how long should we extend the

4229
02:57:00,479 --> 02:57:01,680
meeting time to?

4230
02:57:01,680 --> 02:57:03,349
>> Uh, 10:30.

4231
02:57:03,349 --> 02:57:03,359
» Uh, 10:30.

4232
02:57:03,359 --> 02:57:04,469
>> 10:30.

4233
02:57:04,469 --> 02:57:04,479
» 10:30.

4234
02:57:04,479 --> 02:57:05,990
>> Uh, I'll propose we extend the meeting

4235
02:57:05,990 --> 02:57:06,000
» Uh, I'll propose we extend the meeting

4236
02:57:06,000 --> 02:57:07,520
time to 10:30.

4237
02:57:07,520 --> 02:57:10,950
>> Yeah. Can I just ask one question? It is

4238
02:57:10,950 --> 02:57:10,960
» Yeah. Can I just ask one question? It is

4239
02:57:10,960 --> 02:57:12,800
efficient for us to have this study

4240
02:57:12,800 --> 02:57:14,960
session with three council members. I

4241
02:57:14,960 --> 02:57:16,720
know it's recorded, so the other council

4242
02:57:16,720 --> 02:57:19,520
members can watch it. I am looking

4243
02:57:19,520 --> 02:57:21,680
forward to it and I'm excited for it,

4244
02:57:21,680 --> 02:57:24,240
but I do want to It's an important

4245
02:57:24,240 --> 02:57:25,840
piece. So,

4246
02:57:25,840 --> 02:57:27,279
I'm I guess I'm sort of asking

4247
02:57:27,279 --> 02:57:29,269
>> I don't think there's anything time is

4248
02:57:29,269 --> 02:57:29,279
» I don't think there's anything time is

4249
02:57:29,279 --> 02:57:30,960
there anything timesensitive with this

4250
02:57:30,960 --> 02:57:32,960
presentation?

4251
02:57:32,960 --> 02:57:35,830
>> Not particularly timesensitive. We are

4252
02:57:35,830 --> 02:57:35,840
» Not particularly timesensitive. We are

4253
02:57:35,840 --> 02:57:38,640
looking for two points of direction. Um

4254
02:57:38,640 --> 02:57:41,680
I do believe uh staff has a

4255
02:57:41,680 --> 02:57:42,800
recommendation on one of those points

4256
02:57:42,800 --> 02:57:45,840
and the other point could probably be uh

4257
02:57:45,840 --> 02:57:49,670
deferred if necessary.

4258
02:57:49,680 --> 02:57:51,600
I guess I'm a little bit torn because I

4259
02:57:51,600 --> 02:57:53,840
feel like it's more of a unilateral like

4260
02:57:53,840 --> 02:57:56,080
I actually feel like the the matter the

4261
02:57:56,080 --> 02:57:59,040
last matter that was more us getting

4262
02:57:59,040 --> 02:58:01,680
consensus was less conducive. This is

4263
02:58:01,680 --> 02:58:04,640
more educational. So if we think the

4264
02:58:04,640 --> 02:58:06,720
other council members would watch it on

4265
02:58:06,720 --> 02:58:09,840
YouTube, we could probably proceed

4266
02:58:09,840 --> 02:58:11,200
pretty well. But if there are any

4267
02:58:11,200 --> 02:58:12,560
concerns, I would agree it's not

4268
02:58:12,560 --> 02:58:15,359
timesensitive. Well, I'm I'm also asking

4269
02:58:15,359 --> 02:58:18,080
are is it unilateral or are are we

4270
02:58:18,080 --> 02:58:20,479
giving feedback because that's what

4271
02:58:20,479 --> 02:58:22,560
makes me

4272
02:58:22,560 --> 02:58:24,399
I didn't know that sometimes in a study

4273
02:58:24,399 --> 02:58:26,880
session we give feedback. Sometimes in a

4274
02:58:26,880 --> 02:58:28,479
study session we're just getting

4275
02:58:28,479 --> 02:58:30,399
information. So I agree with you if it's

4276
02:58:30,399 --> 02:58:34,240
simply it's a state law receptacle.

4277
02:58:34,240 --> 02:58:36,070
>> Yes, staff is asking for direction on

4278
02:58:36,070 --> 02:58:36,080
» Yes, staff is asking for direction on

4279
02:58:36,080 --> 02:58:38,479
two items tonight. Um so this is a study

4280
02:58:38,479 --> 02:58:41,359
session to kind of present this new law

4281
02:58:41,359 --> 02:58:42,800
um and provide a little bit of the

4282
02:58:42,800 --> 02:58:44,800
context around some other housing laws

4283
02:58:44,800 --> 02:58:47,920
that um interact with this law. So we

4284
02:58:47,920 --> 02:58:51,040
are looking ultimately to draft an

4285
02:58:51,040 --> 02:58:52,560
ordinance that we would bring back to

4286
02:58:52,560 --> 02:58:54,160
the planning commission and city council

4287
02:58:54,160 --> 02:58:56,080
and we would take direction from tonight

4288
02:58:56,080 --> 02:58:59,200
in order to do so.

4289
02:58:59,200 --> 02:59:02,080
So, if the council with a body of three

4290
02:59:02,080 --> 02:59:04,640
tonight is uncomfortable in providing

4291
02:59:04,640 --> 02:59:06,720
direction on behalf of the entire city

4292
02:59:06,720 --> 02:59:08,319
council on an ordinance, I mean,

4293
02:59:08,319 --> 02:59:10,399
certainly we wouldn't want to bring back

4294
02:59:10,399 --> 02:59:13,200
an ordinance and have more discussion

4295
02:59:13,200 --> 02:59:15,680
and more debate later about whether or

4296
02:59:15,680 --> 02:59:17,200
not we should have been drafting this

4297
02:59:17,200 --> 02:59:19,840
ordinance. Um, but you're the majority,

4298
02:59:19,840 --> 02:59:22,240
right? Three is the majority. So, if the

4299
02:59:22,240 --> 02:59:24,080
council wants to move forward, you know,

4300
02:59:24,080 --> 02:59:26,720
we'll go as quick as possible

4301
02:59:26,720 --> 02:59:28,150
>> and you'll I'm sure you'll have some

4302
02:59:28,150 --> 02:59:28,160
» and you'll I'm sure you'll have some

4303
02:59:28,160 --> 02:59:29,279
questions and we'll answer your

4304
02:59:29,279 --> 02:59:32,240
questions.

4305
02:59:32,240 --> 02:59:34,309
>> But I think it didn't get settled the

4306
02:59:34,309 --> 02:59:34,319
» But I think it didn't get settled the

4307
02:59:34,319 --> 02:59:36,240
10:30 question, right? Because I think

4308
02:59:36,240 --> 02:59:38,640
you stopped short of taking a vote for

4309
02:59:38,640 --> 02:59:39,120
that.

4310
02:59:39,120 --> 02:59:41,510
>> Move to extend time till 10:30.

4311
02:59:41,510 --> 02:59:41,520
» Move to extend time till 10:30.

4312
02:59:41,520 --> 02:59:44,790
>> I'll second it.

4313
02:59:44,790 --> 02:59:44,800
» I'll second it.

4314
02:59:44,800 --> 02:59:46,870
>> Do we need a roll call vote still?

4315
02:59:46,870 --> 02:59:46,880
» Do we need a roll call vote still?

4316
02:59:46,880 --> 02:59:48,000
Council member Malcani.

4317
02:59:48,000 --> 02:59:50,710
>> Well, I guess I'm sorry. G

4318
02:59:50,710 --> 02:59:50,720
» Well, I guess I'm sorry. G

4319
02:59:50,720 --> 02:59:52,070
>> I and Iverson

4320
02:59:52,070 --> 02:59:52,080
» I and Iverson

4321
02:59:52,080 --> 02:59:56,230
>> I

4322
02:59:56,240 --> 02:59:58,240
» All right. Thank you very much, mayor.

4323
02:59:58,240 --> 03:00:00,319
Thank you very much,

4324
03:00:00,319 --> 03:00:01,349
>> city [clears throat] council and members

4325
03:00:01,349 --> 03:00:01,359
» city [clears throat] council and members

4326
03:00:01,359 --> 03:00:04,399
of the public. Um this is on Senate Bill

4327
03:00:04,399 --> 03:00:07,040
uh 1123, a new law that went into effect

4328
03:00:07,040 --> 03:00:12,640
as of July uh 1st of 2025. Um

4329
03:00:12,640 --> 03:00:15,200
or rather um an amendment to an existing

4330
03:00:15,200 --> 03:00:16,960
law, the Starter Home Revitalization

4331
03:00:16,960 --> 03:00:20,160
Act. So, uh, tonight, uh, we are

4332
03:00:20,160 --> 03:00:21,920
looking, we're primarily bringing this

4333
03:00:21,920 --> 03:00:23,520
forward to provide a little bit of

4334
03:00:23,520 --> 03:00:26,319
context to talk about some other laws

4335
03:00:26,319 --> 03:00:28,720
that, um, can give us some sense of what

4336
03:00:28,720 --> 03:00:30,319
this law might end up looking like in

4337
03:00:30,319 --> 03:00:33,439
Arinda. Um, and also those laws interact

4338
03:00:33,439 --> 03:00:36,080
with two points for discretion that we

4339
03:00:36,080 --> 03:00:39,120
are asking, um, for guidance from the

4340
03:00:39,120 --> 03:00:41,520
city council. So these two particular

4341
03:00:41,520 --> 03:00:44,560
points are whether ADUs um accessory

4342
03:00:44,560 --> 03:00:46,640
dwelling units and junior accessory

4343
03:00:46,640 --> 03:00:48,560
dwelling units would be permitted on

4344
03:00:48,560 --> 03:00:51,920
newly created small lots um in relation

4345
03:00:51,920 --> 03:00:55,279
to this particular law. Um and whether a

4346
03:00:55,279 --> 03:00:58,720
subsequent SB9 lot split u may occur on

4347
03:00:58,720 --> 03:01:00,640
these parcels. Um so I'll get into the

4348
03:01:00,640 --> 03:01:02,640
details of what all of that is next. I'm

4349
03:01:02,640 --> 03:01:04,800
going to start with some context on the

4350
03:01:04,800 --> 03:01:09,040
ADU law and on SB9 law.

4351
03:01:09,040 --> 03:01:12,240
Um, so ADU law, uh, these junior

4352
03:01:12,240 --> 03:01:13,840
accessory dwelling units, um, this is

4353
03:01:13,840 --> 03:01:15,920
something that's always been around in a

4354
03:01:15,920 --> 03:01:18,319
window. We've had a an ordinance for

4355
03:01:18,319 --> 03:01:20,080
second units that required discretionary

4356
03:01:20,080 --> 03:01:22,950
review. But in 2017, state law, um,

4357
03:01:22,950 --> 03:01:24,240
[clears throat] basically took away a

4358
03:01:24,240 --> 03:01:27,200
lot of that discretion and said that and

4359
03:01:27,200 --> 03:01:30,319
required that uh, jurisdictions process

4360
03:01:30,319 --> 03:01:32,640
these units with a ministerial review

4361
03:01:32,640 --> 03:01:35,680
process. So, no public hearing, no um,

4362
03:01:35,680 --> 03:01:38,080
public notice. um this is something that

4363
03:01:38,080 --> 03:01:40,080
we can process over the counter. In

4364
03:01:40,080 --> 03:01:42,800
2020, uh there were some statutory

4365
03:01:42,800 --> 03:01:45,040
updates that actually enabled a little

4366
03:01:45,040 --> 03:01:46,880
bit more of a widespread application of

4367
03:01:46,880 --> 03:01:48,240
this law and reduced a lot of the

4368
03:01:48,240 --> 03:01:50,399
barriers. So, it's really 2020 onward

4369
03:01:50,399 --> 03:01:52,880
that Arenda started seeing an uptick in

4370
03:01:52,880 --> 03:01:54,560
accessory dwelling units. And these

4371
03:01:54,560 --> 03:01:56,000
accessory dwelling units can be up to

4372
03:01:56,000 --> 03:01:57,840
1,000 square ft. They can be attached,

4373
03:01:57,840 --> 03:01:59,359
they can be detached. There are a couple

4374
03:01:59,359 --> 03:02:01,200
of different types of configurations and

4375
03:02:01,200 --> 03:02:04,560
designations. Um but really this law has

4376
03:02:04,560 --> 03:02:07,040
allowed a lot of flexibility for private

4377
03:02:07,040 --> 03:02:09,840
homeowners in Arinda. Um one of the

4378
03:02:09,840 --> 03:02:11,279
biggest reasons that people will come

4379
03:02:11,279 --> 03:02:13,439
forward under this law is for uh being

4380
03:02:13,439 --> 03:02:15,600
able to house uh various generations of

4381
03:02:15,600 --> 03:02:17,680
their family to age in place to have

4382
03:02:17,680 --> 03:02:19,600
children move back into um their

4383
03:02:19,600 --> 03:02:23,439
childhood homes. Um so what we've seen

4384
03:02:23,439 --> 03:02:26,479
in the last uh 6 years of processing

4385
03:02:26,479 --> 03:02:29,359
ADUs is an uptick in approvals. We've

4386
03:02:29,359 --> 03:02:33,760
seen a total of um 140 ADUs and nine

4387
03:02:33,760 --> 03:02:36,080
junior accessory dwelling units uh that

4388
03:02:36,080 --> 03:02:38,720
were approved throughout Arinda. Um that

4389
03:02:38,720 --> 03:02:40,319
doesn't mean that all of these will be

4390
03:02:40,319 --> 03:02:42,720
built. Um some of them kind of drop off

4391
03:02:42,720 --> 03:02:45,359
in the process. Um currently in that

4392
03:02:45,359 --> 03:02:49,439
same time frame, we've seen 74 units uh

4393
03:02:49,439 --> 03:02:51,840
be applied to the uh building department

4394
03:02:51,840 --> 03:02:54,880
and get approved and finalized and now

4395
03:02:54,880 --> 03:02:58,960
people are ostensibly living there. Um

4396
03:02:58,960 --> 03:03:02,479
so a slightly different law uh that also

4397
03:03:02,479 --> 03:03:04,560
requires ministerial review rather than

4398
03:03:04,560 --> 03:03:08,319
design review um is SB9. So this went

4399
03:03:08,319 --> 03:03:11,600
into effect on January 1st, 2022. Um

4400
03:03:11,600 --> 03:03:13,840
this is something this is something that

4401
03:03:13,840 --> 03:03:16,960
basically has two arms. Uh, one of these

4402
03:03:16,960 --> 03:03:19,359
is ministerial processing of new single

4403
03:03:19,359 --> 03:03:21,520
family residences and the other is

4404
03:03:21,520 --> 03:03:24,880
ministerial processing of um lot splits

4405
03:03:24,880 --> 03:03:29,120
at uh single family zoned lots. Um so

4406
03:03:29,120 --> 03:03:31,439
these are urban housing developments for

4407
03:03:31,439 --> 03:03:34,160
the units urban lot splits for the lot

4408
03:03:34,160 --> 03:03:38,880
splits. Um so this has the the the major

4409
03:03:38,880 --> 03:03:41,120
impact in Arinda that is that this law

4410
03:03:41,120 --> 03:03:45,120
has generally uh supplanted the need for

4411
03:03:45,120 --> 03:03:47,439
design review for a lot of new units in

4412
03:03:47,439 --> 03:03:50,160
Arinda. Um so typically in the past

4413
03:03:50,160 --> 03:03:52,240
people would come forward under uh a

4414
03:03:52,240 --> 03:03:54,160
design review process. There would be a

4415
03:03:54,160 --> 03:03:55,520
public notice that go to planning

4416
03:03:55,520 --> 03:03:58,240
commission. But with this law allowing

4417
03:03:58,240 --> 03:04:00,800
for up to two units on an existing

4418
03:04:00,800 --> 03:04:04,080
single family residential lot, um most

4419
03:04:04,080 --> 03:04:06,080
people who have a new home to propose,

4420
03:04:06,080 --> 03:04:08,000
whether that's on a vacant lot or maybe

4421
03:04:08,000 --> 03:04:10,479
it's an additional home on an existing

4422
03:04:10,479 --> 03:04:13,120
or a lot with an existing home, um will

4423
03:04:13,120 --> 03:04:14,720
instead of going through design review,

4424
03:04:14,720 --> 03:04:16,000
just make sure that they're meeting all

4425
03:04:16,000 --> 03:04:19,279
of the objective standards and come in

4426
03:04:19,279 --> 03:04:21,359
under this law uh which doesn't require

4427
03:04:21,359 --> 03:04:25,920
any form of noticing. Um so one one

4428
03:04:25,920 --> 03:04:28,319
aspect of this law while most of the

4429
03:04:28,319 --> 03:04:30,720
discretion is in the the state's hands

4430
03:04:30,720 --> 03:04:33,120
um the the community had discretion over

4431
03:04:33,120 --> 03:04:35,359
one particular aspect which is whether

4432
03:04:35,359 --> 03:04:38,720
or not uh or how we allow ADUs on these

4433
03:04:38,720 --> 03:04:42,880
types of lots. Um the lot splits these

4434
03:04:42,880 --> 03:04:45,040
ministerial lot splits that allow a

4435
03:04:45,040 --> 03:04:48,479
resident who has to be a um has to be

4436
03:04:48,479 --> 03:04:51,760
living on the premises. Um

4437
03:04:51,760 --> 03:04:54,880
if they do a lot split then the city has

4438
03:04:54,880 --> 03:04:57,200
codified a limitation on the number of

4439
03:04:57,200 --> 03:05:00,640
units that can be approved for each uh

4440
03:05:00,640 --> 03:05:03,680
resulting lot. Um so that maximum is two

4441
03:05:03,680 --> 03:05:07,040
units per lot. Um and that's just to

4442
03:05:07,040 --> 03:05:09,120
prevent someone from being able to do a

4443
03:05:09,120 --> 03:05:12,800
lot split and then uh subsequently have

4444
03:05:12,800 --> 03:05:15,920
two primary units through SB9 approval

4445
03:05:15,920 --> 03:05:19,680
on both sides. 211 211 and then

4446
03:05:19,680 --> 03:05:22,479
additionally get ADUs. Um so this is

4447
03:05:22,479 --> 03:05:25,200
going to come into play. Um this is just

4448
03:05:25,200 --> 03:05:26,560
context for what we're going to be

4449
03:05:26,560 --> 03:05:28,880
asking for uh with ADUs in this new law

4450
03:05:28,880 --> 03:05:31,359
that we're looking at. So this one

4451
03:05:31,359 --> 03:05:34,880
hasn't seen as much proliferation um in

4452
03:05:34,880 --> 03:05:38,240
uh in Arinda just because of um the the

4453
03:05:38,240 --> 03:05:40,080
scope and some of the limitations that

4454
03:05:40,080 --> 03:05:42,560
are involved. We've seen 18 entitled

4455
03:05:42,560 --> 03:05:45,200
units uh in the past four years of this

4456
03:05:45,200 --> 03:05:47,439
law being active. there are three in the

4457
03:05:47,439 --> 03:05:49,920
process. Um and then for lot splits,

4458
03:05:49,920 --> 03:05:51,760
there have been seven completed lot

4459
03:05:51,760 --> 03:05:54,399
splits. Uh and four are currently

4460
03:05:54,399 --> 03:05:57,760
active. Um some of those lot splits are

4461
03:05:57,760 --> 03:06:00,160
actually between existing units. So

4462
03:06:00,160 --> 03:06:02,399
someone had a second unit on a parcel,

4463
03:06:02,399 --> 03:06:04,399
they were able to as the homeowner who

4464
03:06:04,399 --> 03:06:06,880
lived on site divide between them and

4465
03:06:06,880 --> 03:06:09,040
sell off the other the other unit. So it

4466
03:06:09,040 --> 03:06:10,880
wasn't necessarily for producing more

4467
03:06:10,880 --> 03:06:12,479
units. It was just to give them some

4468
03:06:12,479 --> 03:06:14,479
flexibility to get rid of that second

4469
03:06:14,479 --> 03:06:17,840
unit. Um, and then seven of the units

4470
03:06:17,840 --> 03:06:19,920
that we've seen or seven of the 18

4471
03:06:19,920 --> 03:06:21,680
entitlements that we've seen have had

4472
03:06:21,680 --> 03:06:24,880
ADUs in association with the SB9 units.

4473
03:06:24,880 --> 03:06:27,359
So, they came forward with a new home

4474
03:06:27,359 --> 03:06:30,960
and either a detached or an attached ADU

4475
03:06:30,960 --> 03:06:33,359
associated with that. Most cases, I

4476
03:06:33,359 --> 03:06:35,040
think in very few cases, we've seen

4477
03:06:35,040 --> 03:06:37,920
people push this to get um, three or

4478
03:06:37,920 --> 03:06:41,680
four units. Um, but there is some

4479
03:06:41,680 --> 03:06:43,760
possibility for that. Um, it's just we

4480
03:06:43,760 --> 03:06:45,680
don't see people normally take advantage

4481
03:06:45,680 --> 03:06:49,279
of this. Um, so this is just a a a brief

4482
03:06:49,279 --> 03:06:53,040
overview of how ADU and SB9 law works

4483
03:06:53,040 --> 03:06:54,880
where you can start with a vacant lot

4484
03:06:54,880 --> 03:06:56,800
and get up to four units in various

4485
03:06:56,800 --> 03:06:58,720
configurations and maybe do a lot split

4486
03:06:58,720 --> 03:07:00,479
and have two on one side, two on another

4487
03:07:00,479 --> 03:07:03,680
side, or have um up to four units on

4488
03:07:03,680 --> 03:07:05,200
something that doesn't even require a

4489
03:07:05,200 --> 03:07:07,760
lot split. Um, but those configurations

4490
03:07:07,760 --> 03:07:09,920
and maximizing the potential with these

4491
03:07:09,920 --> 03:07:12,080
is not something that we normally see.

4492
03:07:12,080 --> 03:07:13,920
Usually, this is flexibility for just

4493
03:07:13,920 --> 03:07:15,680
getting a new home through without

4494
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:19,279
having to go through design review.

4495
03:07:19,279 --> 03:07:21,200
So, that brings us to that's a little

4496
03:07:21,200 --> 03:07:23,040
bit of context and background before we

4497
03:07:23,040 --> 03:07:24,800
get into the Starter Home Revitalization

4498
03:07:24,800 --> 03:07:28,560
Act. So, this law requires ministerial

4499
03:07:28,560 --> 03:07:30,640
approval. Um, and there's a shot clock

4500
03:07:30,640 --> 03:07:33,040
of 60 days for us to once we deem an

4501
03:07:33,040 --> 03:07:34,960
application to be complete, we have 60

4502
03:07:34,960 --> 03:07:37,920
days as staff to um, approve or

4503
03:07:37,920 --> 03:07:41,439
disapprove of an application. Um, and

4504
03:07:41,439 --> 03:07:43,200
they can use this. There are two arms

4505
03:07:43,200 --> 03:07:45,200
kind of like with SB9. One is

4506
03:07:45,200 --> 03:07:49,520
subdivision. Um, so up to 10 parcels and

4507
03:07:49,520 --> 03:07:52,479
uh, the other is development of up to 10

4508
03:07:52,479 --> 03:07:54,800
residential units. Um, that doesn't have

4509
03:07:54,800 --> 03:07:57,840
to be one for one. you can subdivide

4510
03:07:57,840 --> 03:07:59,920
into two parcels and put five on each of

4511
03:07:59,920 --> 03:08:02,000
them. Um there's nothing in the law that

4512
03:08:02,000 --> 03:08:04,960
excludes um excludes that kind of config

4513
03:08:04,960 --> 03:08:08,880
configuration from going forward. Um so

4514
03:08:08,880 --> 03:08:11,439
this is made up the original version of

4515
03:08:11,439 --> 03:08:16,080
this law uh was SB 684. It didn't uh

4516
03:08:16,080 --> 03:08:17,760
have a whole lot of impact in Arinda

4517
03:08:17,760 --> 03:08:19,359
because it was specific to multif

4518
03:08:19,359 --> 03:08:24,240
family. But 1123, the um the one that we

4519
03:08:24,240 --> 03:08:27,439
primarily focus on here, um expanded

4520
03:08:27,439 --> 03:08:30,640
eligibility to um vacant single family

4521
03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:34,240
zoned lots and um and then subsequently

4522
03:08:34,240 --> 03:08:36,880
AB130 also allowed a developer to

4523
03:08:36,880 --> 03:08:38,880
designate a remainder parcel. So I'll

4524
03:08:38,880 --> 03:08:40,880
get into that in one second in terms of

4525
03:08:40,880 --> 03:08:43,920
what that specifically means. So there

4526
03:08:43,920 --> 03:08:46,240
are a couple of eligibility criteria. I

4527
03:08:46,240 --> 03:08:48,000
think the the primary ones that I want

4528
03:08:48,000 --> 03:08:50,319
to look at here um to draw your

4529
03:08:50,319 --> 03:08:52,880
attention to is maximum size. So the

4530
03:08:52,880 --> 03:08:56,000
parcel can't be more than 1.5 acres. Um

4531
03:08:56,000 --> 03:08:57,760
so anything that's greater than that in

4532
03:08:57,760 --> 03:08:59,920
size generally isn't eligible if it's a

4533
03:08:59,920 --> 03:09:03,439
vacant lot. Um vacancy this is not as

4534
03:09:03,439 --> 03:09:05,359
straightforward as it would seem because

4535
03:09:05,359 --> 03:09:08,800
of that designated remainder aspect. Um

4536
03:09:08,800 --> 03:09:10,880
vacancy can mean a vacant lot that is

4537
03:09:10,880 --> 03:09:13,920
less than that is no more than 1.5 acres

4538
03:09:13,920 --> 03:09:16,240
um of which we have quite a few in

4539
03:09:16,240 --> 03:09:18,640
Arinda. Um

4540
03:09:18,640 --> 03:09:20,160
but it can also because of the

4541
03:09:20,160 --> 03:09:22,640
designated remainder be a portion of a

4542
03:09:22,640 --> 03:09:26,080
lot that is deemed as excess land by

4543
03:09:26,080 --> 03:09:28,800
someone who owns that particular lot. So

4544
03:09:28,800 --> 03:09:30,880
if there is a house in Arinda and there

4545
03:09:30,880 --> 03:09:34,240
is enough in there is enough space they

4546
03:09:34,240 --> 03:09:36,800
could say okay we're going to take that

4547
03:09:36,800 --> 03:09:39,120
existing home and some land surrounding

4548
03:09:39,120 --> 03:09:40,880
it and say that's the designated

4549
03:09:40,880 --> 03:09:44,160
remainder. Um and then the other portion

4550
03:09:44,160 --> 03:09:47,600
as long as that is less than 1.5 acres

4551
03:09:47,600 --> 03:09:51,840
is what can go through um this this act

4552
03:09:51,840 --> 03:09:53,760
um can be subdivided and developed

4553
03:09:53,760 --> 03:09:56,800
through this act. Um and that designated

4554
03:09:56,800 --> 03:09:58,560
remainder, the existing home, the

4555
03:09:58,560 --> 03:10:01,680
existing use, um does not actually have

4556
03:10:01,680 --> 03:10:05,120
to uh uh does not count against the the

4557
03:10:05,120 --> 03:10:08,240
10 total units or the 10 total lots. Um

4558
03:10:08,240 --> 03:10:10,800
the only point with that is that we do

4559
03:10:10,800 --> 03:10:12,720
have to uh that designated remainder

4560
03:10:12,720 --> 03:10:14,560
would have to um meet all the

4561
03:10:14,560 --> 03:10:16,080
subdivision standards that we do have on

4562
03:10:16,080 --> 03:10:18,160
the books because it's not protected by

4563
03:10:18,160 --> 03:10:20,560
state law. Um, so it still has some

4564
03:10:20,560 --> 03:10:22,319
limitations, but this designated

4565
03:10:22,319 --> 03:10:23,840
remainder basically means that someone

4566
03:10:23,840 --> 03:10:26,399
with a developed parcel could subdivide

4567
03:10:26,399 --> 03:10:28,399
a portion of theirs in accordance to

4568
03:10:28,399 --> 03:10:30,319
this law. And then the last thing that I

4569
03:10:30,319 --> 03:10:33,120
want to um point to here is fire safety.

4570
03:10:33,120 --> 03:10:35,520
Um, I think I have a graphic next. Yes.

4571
03:10:35,520 --> 03:10:39,760
So the wildfire um hazard uh sorry the

4572
03:10:39,760 --> 03:10:41,520
um

4573
03:10:41,520 --> 03:10:44,960
fire hazard severity zones in Arinda um

4574
03:10:44,960 --> 03:10:47,680
you can see this red on this one side uh

4575
03:10:47,680 --> 03:10:49,920
on the uh right hand side that's all

4576
03:10:49,920 --> 03:10:52,240
very high fire hazard severity zone.

4577
03:10:52,240 --> 03:10:57,040
This law um prohibits this law uh this

4578
03:10:57,040 --> 03:10:59,359
sort of subdivision and development

4579
03:10:59,359 --> 03:11:01,840
within that zone. Um so that immediately

4580
03:11:01,840 --> 03:11:04,720
eliminates um in present day a whole

4581
03:11:04,720 --> 03:11:06,800
bunch of vacant lots and a whole bunch

4582
03:11:06,800 --> 03:11:08,640
of lots that would otherwise be

4583
03:11:08,640 --> 03:11:11,359
eligible. Um so over here on the left

4584
03:11:11,359 --> 03:11:13,040
side we've got the vacant housing

4585
03:11:13,040 --> 03:11:14,720
element sites. This is just stuff that

4586
03:11:14,720 --> 03:11:16,080
we these are the sites that we pulled

4587
03:11:16,080 --> 03:11:17,520
from the housing element to show whether

4588
03:11:17,520 --> 03:11:21,520
or not they were um 1.5 acres or smaller

4589
03:11:21,520 --> 03:11:26,479
or greater. um but that that whole uh

4590
03:11:26,479 --> 03:11:28,240
everything that's on the the west side

4591
03:11:28,240 --> 03:11:30,399
of Arinda basically and in the very

4592
03:11:30,399 --> 03:11:32,080
north of Arinda would not be eligible

4593
03:11:32,080 --> 03:11:35,120
right now. This could fluctuate um

4594
03:11:35,120 --> 03:11:36,960
because these zones may change at some

4595
03:11:36,960 --> 03:11:39,840
point in the future, but for the next

4596
03:11:39,840 --> 03:11:42,080
few years at least, we would expect that

4597
03:11:42,080 --> 03:11:46,640
only um parcels in this gray area um and

4598
03:11:46,640 --> 03:11:48,479
the gray and the yellow and orange areas

4599
03:11:48,479 --> 03:11:50,479
would actually be eligible. So for

4600
03:11:50,479 --> 03:11:52,560
vacant lots that are listed within the

4601
03:11:52,560 --> 03:11:55,359
housing element, that reduces us to 50

4602
03:11:55,359 --> 03:11:57,040
parcels that seem like they could

4603
03:11:57,040 --> 03:12:00,080
ostensibly qualify from the outset. Um

4604
03:12:00,080 --> 03:12:02,240
but that still means that anything that

4605
03:12:02,240 --> 03:12:04,240
is not a vacant parcel, if they had

4606
03:12:04,240 --> 03:12:06,240
enough space, they could in theory go

4607
03:12:06,240 --> 03:12:09,120
through um this law.

4608
03:12:09,120 --> 03:12:09,590
>> Um

4609
03:12:09,590 --> 03:12:09,600
» Um

4610
03:12:09,600 --> 03:12:11,030
>> Darren, I'm going to ask you to go a

4611
03:12:11,030 --> 03:12:11,040
» Darren, I'm going to ask you to go a

4612
03:12:11,040 --> 03:12:11,520
little quicker.

4613
03:12:11,520 --> 03:12:13,670
>> I'll go I'll speed it up right now. Um a

4614
03:12:13,670 --> 03:12:13,680
» I'll go I'll speed it up right now. Um a

4615
03:12:13,680 --> 03:12:15,760
couple of requirements. Uh the parcels

4616
03:12:15,760 --> 03:12:17,600
have to we have to allow parcels as

4617
03:12:17,600 --> 03:12:20,240
small as 1,200 square f feet. Um the

4618
03:12:20,240 --> 03:12:22,319
average habitables floor space across

4619
03:12:22,319 --> 03:12:24,800
all of the units that are proposed um

4620
03:12:24,800 --> 03:12:29,120
can't exceed 1750 um 1,750 ft² because

4621
03:12:29,120 --> 03:12:31,200
these are supposed to be smaller homes.

4622
03:12:31,200 --> 03:12:33,840
Um we can't impose standards on floor

4623
03:12:33,840 --> 03:12:36,640
area ratios that are less than 1 or 1.25

4624
03:12:36,640 --> 03:12:38,319
which means that we do have to allow

4625
03:12:38,319 --> 03:12:40,800
quite a bit of the lot to be developed.

4626
03:12:40,800 --> 03:12:44,640
Um we there are sideyard setbacks that

4627
03:12:44,640 --> 03:12:46,479
are drastically reduced from setbacks

4628
03:12:46,479 --> 03:12:48,880
that we have in our own standards. Um

4629
03:12:48,880 --> 03:12:50,720
there's no setbacks required between new

4630
03:12:50,720 --> 03:12:52,960
units. Um and we can't require more than

4631
03:12:52,960 --> 03:12:55,680
one off- streetet parking space.

4632
03:12:55,680 --> 03:12:58,399
Um we can however require adherence to

4633
03:12:58,399 --> 03:13:00,880
all objective standards. Um, for

4634
03:13:00,880 --> 03:13:02,560
instance, that's standards that we find

4635
03:13:02,560 --> 03:13:04,479
in our zoning code and standards that

4636
03:13:04,479 --> 03:13:06,560
we're looking forward to with the

4637
03:13:06,560 --> 03:13:08,399
current draft version of the citywide

4638
03:13:08,399 --> 03:13:12,160
objective design standards. Um, and we

4639
03:13:12,160 --> 03:13:14,880
can't but we can't employ those

4640
03:13:14,880 --> 03:13:16,160
standards. We can't enforce those

4641
03:13:16,160 --> 03:13:17,600
standards where they would preclude

4642
03:13:17,600 --> 03:13:19,439
development in accordance with the act.

4643
03:13:19,439 --> 03:13:21,920
Um, so one example might be height. We

4644
03:13:21,920 --> 03:13:24,160
have this requirement to allow a certain

4645
03:13:24,160 --> 03:13:26,800
floor area ratio. If someone subdivided

4646
03:13:26,800 --> 03:13:28,800
in such a manner that the lots were

4647
03:13:28,800 --> 03:13:30,640
quite small and they needed to build up

4648
03:13:30,640 --> 03:13:33,279
in order to meet that minimum floor area

4649
03:13:33,279 --> 03:13:36,080
that we have to require or we have to

4650
03:13:36,080 --> 03:13:39,600
allow um then there might be a cause for

4651
03:13:39,600 --> 03:13:42,239
exceeding the height standards um in

4652
03:13:42,239 --> 03:13:46,640
that in that particular instance um

4653
03:13:46,640 --> 03:13:48,560
uh I'm just going to this is looking

4654
03:13:48,560 --> 03:13:50,479
this is a brief look at our objective

4655
03:13:50,479 --> 03:13:52,880
design standards uh that are in draft

4656
03:13:52,880 --> 03:13:55,439
format and the types of housing uh uh

4657
03:13:55,439 --> 03:13:58,640
that these uh pertain to. So right now

4658
03:13:58,640 --> 03:14:00,800
we are looking at because I cited as an

4659
03:14:00,800 --> 03:14:02,319
example that you could have in theory

4660
03:14:02,319 --> 03:14:04,160
five units or nine units on one

4661
03:14:04,160 --> 03:14:06,640
particular lot. We do have standards in

4662
03:14:06,640 --> 03:14:08,720
the objective design standards that look

4663
03:14:08,720 --> 03:14:10,720
at this and that provide some additional

4664
03:14:10,720 --> 03:14:13,760
regulations. Um and this is something

4665
03:14:13,760 --> 03:14:15,200
that staff is looking at a little bit

4666
03:14:15,200 --> 03:14:17,120
more closely now and making sure that

4667
03:14:17,120 --> 03:14:20,239
everything in SB or in SB123 is

4668
03:14:20,239 --> 03:14:22,319
accounted for as well as we can through

4669
03:14:22,319 --> 03:14:25,760
these objective design standards.

4670
03:14:25,760 --> 03:14:28,640
um density requirements if it's in the

4671
03:14:28,640 --> 03:14:30,080
housing element. So if it's a vacant

4672
03:14:30,080 --> 03:14:32,239
site, they just have to develop at least

4673
03:14:32,239 --> 03:14:34,160
as many units as it says in our housing

4674
03:14:34,160 --> 03:14:36,160
element. Most of the time that's one to

4675
03:14:36,160 --> 03:14:38,000
two units. So as long as they produce

4676
03:14:38,000 --> 03:14:39,439
that many units, they could go through

4677
03:14:39,439 --> 03:14:41,520
this. If it's not in a housing element

4678
03:14:41,520 --> 03:14:44,000
site, for instance, if it's a on a

4679
03:14:44,000 --> 03:14:46,720
designated remainder parcel, uh the math

4680
03:14:46,720 --> 03:14:48,880
works out that they need 13.2 2 units

4681
03:14:48,880 --> 03:14:51,200
per acre, which means that the average

4682
03:14:51,200 --> 03:14:53,359
unit needs to or each unit has to have

4683
03:14:53,359 --> 03:14:56,000
an average of 3,300 ft associated with

4684
03:14:56,000 --> 03:14:58,239
it at the maximum. So somewhere between

4685
03:14:58,239 --> 03:15:02,479
1,200 ft² and 3,300 ft².

4686
03:15:02,479 --> 03:15:04,880
So um we don't we're assuming that this

4687
03:15:04,880 --> 03:15:07,120
is not going to take off in quite the

4688
03:15:07,120 --> 03:15:10,800
same um with the same exuberance as ADU

4689
03:15:10,800 --> 03:15:13,279
law. It's not as um accessible for

4690
03:15:13,279 --> 03:15:14,800
homeowners, but it might be a little bit

4691
03:15:14,800 --> 03:15:17,520
more attractive to developers. But one

4692
03:15:17,520 --> 03:15:19,279
of the big things here is that the

4693
03:15:19,279 --> 03:15:21,120
topography of undeveloped space in

4694
03:15:21,120 --> 03:15:23,920
Arinda, the terrain, the slopes tend to

4695
03:15:23,920 --> 03:15:26,160
make this a little bit to increase the

4696
03:15:26,160 --> 03:15:30,479
limitations for site access um and uh

4697
03:15:30,479 --> 03:15:33,200
make this a higher barrier to entry. So,

4698
03:15:33,200 --> 03:15:34,960
what we're looking for from the city

4699
03:15:34,960 --> 03:15:38,080
council, um, two points. One is how

4700
03:15:38,080 --> 03:15:40,800
should we allow ADUs because state gives

4701
03:15:40,800 --> 03:15:43,120
us the discretion to say yes or no to

4702
03:15:43,120 --> 03:15:45,680
ADUs, um, on these parcels. And we could

4703
03:15:45,680 --> 03:15:47,840
do this a number of ways. So, we've

4704
03:15:47,840 --> 03:15:50,800
offered a couple of policy options that

4705
03:15:50,800 --> 03:15:52,720
we could consider that range from just

4706
03:15:52,720 --> 03:15:55,600
prohibiting them outright um, to

4707
03:15:55,600 --> 03:15:58,800
permitting them completely. Um, and then

4708
03:15:58,800 --> 03:16:01,040
in the middle, we could consider size

4709
03:16:01,040 --> 03:16:03,439
restrictions. So, if there is a minimum

4710
03:16:03,439 --> 03:16:06,800
lot size, uh, then perhaps they could

4711
03:16:06,800 --> 03:16:10,399
build an ADU on it. Um, and unit caps,

4712
03:16:10,399 --> 03:16:12,640
we could also potentially say, you know,

4713
03:16:12,640 --> 03:16:14,239
as long as your subdivision doesn't

4714
03:16:14,239 --> 03:16:17,600
exceed 10 total units, some number of

4715
03:16:17,600 --> 03:16:20,160
those can be ADUs. So, so there are a

4716
03:16:20,160 --> 03:16:22,479
myriad of policy options here that could

4717
03:16:22,479 --> 03:16:26,319
be considered. Um and then subsequent

4718
03:16:26,319 --> 03:16:28,880
SB9 lot splits. State does give us

4719
03:16:28,880 --> 03:16:30,640
discretion over whether or not we can

4720
03:16:30,640 --> 03:16:34,479
allow um lot splits according to um in

4721
03:16:34,479 --> 03:16:37,200
accordance with SB9 on lots that were

4722
03:16:37,200 --> 03:16:40,080
subdivided in accordance with the um

4723
03:16:40,080 --> 03:16:43,120
starter home revitalization act. Um

4724
03:16:43,120 --> 03:16:44,640
staff's recommendation on this

4725
03:16:44,640 --> 03:16:47,200
particular point is to not allow this to

4726
03:16:47,200 --> 03:16:49,120
happen and create this rabbit hole of

4727
03:16:49,120 --> 03:16:51,120
increasingly smaller lots that would be

4728
03:16:51,120 --> 03:16:53,120
allowed.

4729
03:16:53,120 --> 03:16:54,880
Um, next steps based on tonight's

4730
03:16:54,880 --> 03:16:56,880
feedback, we would anticipate drafting

4731
03:16:56,880 --> 03:16:59,040
ordinance and come back to the planning

4732
03:16:59,040 --> 03:17:01,520
commission and the city council um with

4733
03:17:01,520 --> 03:17:04,560
an ordinance that meets your direction.

4734
03:17:04,560 --> 03:17:06,950
>> And with that, I will hand it over for

4735
03:17:06,950 --> 03:17:06,960
» And with that, I will hand it over for

4736
03:17:06,960 --> 03:17:09,200
questions. Apologies.

4737
03:17:09,200 --> 03:17:11,030
>> Darren, can you put up the one through

4738
03:17:11,030 --> 03:17:11,040
» Darren, can you put up the one through

4739
03:17:11,040 --> 03:17:13,359
four on the screen so that's there for

4740
03:17:13,359 --> 03:17:18,950
their discussion?

4741
03:17:18,960 --> 03:17:21,279
Um, and we do have a speaker card. So,

4742
03:17:21,279 --> 03:17:23,200
we'll do questions for staff and then

4743
03:17:23,200 --> 03:17:25,120
we'll do some uh public comment. We'll

4744
03:17:25,120 --> 03:17:27,920
bring it back for any direction. Um, any

4745
03:17:27,920 --> 03:17:30,399
questions? [laughter]

4746
03:17:30,399 --> 03:17:31,269
>> Start with vice mayor.

4747
03:17:31,269 --> 03:17:31,279
» Start with vice mayor.

4748
03:17:31,279 --> 03:17:33,110
>> My problem is I have so many questions.

4749
03:17:33,110 --> 03:17:33,120
» My problem is I have so many questions.

4750
03:17:33,120 --> 03:17:34,720
I'm

4751
03:17:34,720 --> 03:17:39,200
I I find this um extraordinarily

4752
03:17:39,200 --> 03:17:41,359
challenging and very challenging to

4753
03:17:41,359 --> 03:17:43,920
understand. So,

4754
03:17:43,920 --> 03:17:46,880
um I I'll try to think of all of them

4755
03:17:46,880 --> 03:17:49,600
that I have real quickly. Darren, um

4756
03:17:49,600 --> 03:17:51,600
one,

4757
03:17:51,600 --> 03:17:53,760
does the objective design standards are

4758
03:17:53,760 --> 03:17:55,359
we allowed to do objective design

4759
03:17:55,359 --> 03:17:57,840
standards that would allow how these

4760
03:17:57,840 --> 03:18:01,279
units could be laid out on the

4761
03:18:01,279 --> 03:18:03,359
subdivided lot?

4762
03:18:03,359 --> 03:18:05,349
>> Yes, this does allow for subdivision

4763
03:18:05,349 --> 03:18:05,359
» Yes, this does allow for subdivision

4764
03:18:05,359 --> 03:18:07,279
standards. And actually within the

4765
03:18:07,279 --> 03:18:09,120
objective design standards in their

4766
03:18:09,120 --> 03:18:10,880
draft format right now there is a

4767
03:18:10,880 --> 03:18:14,160
section on um small lot subdivision. Um

4768
03:18:14,160 --> 03:18:15,680
so it is something that we are looking

4769
03:18:15,680 --> 03:18:18,000
at to make sure it kind of captures as

4770
03:18:18,000 --> 03:18:20,880
many possible scenarios. Um we we do

4771
03:18:20,880 --> 03:18:22,239
have to look at that a little bit more

4772
03:18:22,239 --> 03:18:24,160
closely in order to figure out exactly

4773
03:18:24,160 --> 03:18:27,040
how this law interacts with our proposed

4774
03:18:27,040 --> 03:18:29,600
standards as they sit right now. And

4775
03:18:29,600 --> 03:18:32,319
then how does it fit in the realm of

4776
03:18:32,319 --> 03:18:34,720
infrastructure? Such things as water

4777
03:18:34,720 --> 03:18:37,520
lines, gas lines,

4778
03:18:37,520 --> 03:18:39,920
egress. Um,

4779
03:18:39,920 --> 03:18:42,880
it it just seems I'm I'm maybe I'm the

4780
03:18:42,880 --> 03:18:44,880
only one, but this seems mind-boggling

4781
03:18:44,880 --> 03:18:47,200
to me, the idea that you would create

4782
03:18:47,200 --> 03:18:51,200
this tiny little village on um one and a

4783
03:18:51,200 --> 03:18:54,160
half acres potentially, and then um I'm

4784
03:18:54,160 --> 03:18:57,680
assuming if let's let's say

4785
03:18:57,680 --> 03:18:59,600
I can see a difference if it's a totally

4786
03:18:59,600 --> 03:19:02,239
vacant lot to start with versus it has a

4787
03:19:02,239 --> 03:19:03,920
home on it that's going to turn into

4788
03:19:03,920 --> 03:19:06,399
this remainder piece. I assume that the

4789
03:19:06,399 --> 03:19:09,200
remainder piece if there's a home there

4790
03:19:09,200 --> 03:19:12,880
doesn't count as part of the total

4791
03:19:12,880 --> 03:19:14,080
square footage.

4792
03:19:14,080 --> 03:19:14,550
>> Correct.

4793
03:19:14,550 --> 03:19:14,560
» Correct.

4794
03:19:14,560 --> 03:19:17,670
>> Correct. And then truly out of all these

4795
03:19:17,670 --> 03:19:17,680
» Correct. And then truly out of all these

4796
03:19:17,680 --> 03:19:20,479
units, they can't exceed

4797
03:19:20,479 --> 03:19:23,840
1750 square ft. So they really are like

4798
03:19:23,840 --> 03:19:27,200
these teeny tiny little cottages.

4799
03:19:27,200 --> 03:19:29,590
>> They can't exceed 1750 square ft on

4800
03:19:29,590 --> 03:19:29,600
» They can't exceed 1750 square ft on

4801
03:19:29,600 --> 03:19:32,160
average. Um so someone could

4802
03:19:32,160 --> 03:19:33,429
>> total or each one?

4803
03:19:33,429 --> 03:19:33,439
» total or each one?

4804
03:19:33,439 --> 03:19:35,670
>> Each one. Each one. So that you would

4805
03:19:35,670 --> 03:19:35,680
» Each one. Each one. So that you would

4806
03:19:35,680 --> 03:19:37,520
take the total square footage between

4807
03:19:37,520 --> 03:19:39,279
all of them, divide them by however many

4808
03:19:39,279 --> 03:19:41,760
units are being proposed. So as an

4809
03:19:41,760 --> 03:19:43,760
example, if someone were proposing 10

4810
03:19:43,760 --> 03:19:46,399
units, the the total square footage

4811
03:19:46,399 --> 03:19:48,800
between all of them would be 17,500

4812
03:19:48,800 --> 03:19:51,520
square ft. Um so if the some units are

4813
03:19:51,520 --> 03:19:53,120
small and some units are large, there's

4814
03:19:53,120 --> 03:19:54,560
nothing in the law that prevents that.

4815
03:19:54,560 --> 03:19:56,319
They just can't exceed that average

4816
03:19:56,319 --> 03:19:59,510
size.

4817
03:19:59,520 --> 03:20:00,960
» Sorry, can you repeat that? I don't

4818
03:20:00,960 --> 03:20:01,439
think I

4819
03:20:01,439 --> 03:20:02,630
>> I was going to say I think I'm still

4820
03:20:02,630 --> 03:20:02,640
» I was going to say I think I'm still

4821
03:20:02,640 --> 03:20:03,520
confused. I'm sorry.

4822
03:20:03,520 --> 03:20:05,510
>> Okay. Um there's an average size

4823
03:20:05,510 --> 03:20:05,520
» Okay. Um there's an average size

4824
03:20:05,520 --> 03:20:08,479
requirement in the law um because the

4825
03:20:08,479 --> 03:20:11,040
the aim is to get these smaller units,

4826
03:20:11,040 --> 03:20:13,760
but every individual unit, for instance,

4827
03:20:13,760 --> 03:20:16,479
could be proposed at 1,750

4828
03:20:16,479 --> 03:20:18,479
ft². So you could propose 10 units that

4829
03:20:18,479 --> 03:20:21,760
are all 1,750 ft². You could also

4830
03:20:21,760 --> 03:20:25,200
propose five units that are 2,000 ft² as

4831
03:20:25,200 --> 03:20:28,000
long as five other units were 1500 ft²

4832
03:20:28,000 --> 03:20:30,160
because you're meeting that average. Um,

4833
03:20:30,160 --> 03:20:32,880
so there's there's some discretion from

4834
03:20:32,880 --> 03:20:35,439
the developer in that instance as to

4835
03:20:35,439 --> 03:20:35,760
which

4836
03:20:35,760 --> 03:20:37,830
>> what was the 1,200 ft? That was

4837
03:20:37,830 --> 03:20:37,840
» what was the 1,200 ft? That was

4838
03:20:37,840 --> 03:20:40,710
>> 1,200 ft is the minimum lot size that we

4839
03:20:40,710 --> 03:20:40,720
» 1,200 ft is the minimum lot size that we

4840
03:20:40,720 --> 03:20:43,920
have to allow.

4841
03:20:43,920 --> 03:20:47,190
>> And so then then can these potential

4842
03:20:47,190 --> 03:20:47,200
» And so then then can these potential

4843
03:20:47,200 --> 03:20:49,439
units that are allowed, can they be

4844
03:20:49,439 --> 03:20:51,520
various configurations? I assume they

4845
03:20:51,520 --> 03:20:53,200
could be a whole collection of little

4846
03:20:53,200 --> 03:20:56,000
tiny cottage type things. I can they be

4847
03:20:56,000 --> 03:20:59,359
like one can be a town home in this

4848
03:20:59,359 --> 03:21:01,600
corner and something else over here. It

4849
03:21:01,600 --> 03:21:04,000
it sounds very complicated.

4850
03:21:04,000 --> 03:21:05,510
>> There's nothing really that seems to

4851
03:21:05,510 --> 03:21:05,520
» There's nothing really that seems to

4852
03:21:05,520 --> 03:21:08,319
preclude that type of configuration. The

4853
03:21:08,319 --> 03:21:09,920
example that I was giving when I was

4854
03:21:09,920 --> 03:21:12,800
thinking about this um was you could

4855
03:21:12,800 --> 03:21:16,319
subdivide into two lots. one just be a

4856
03:21:16,319 --> 03:21:18,800
large single family residence, 4,000

4857
03:21:18,800 --> 03:21:20,640
ft², and the other one might just be

4858
03:21:20,640 --> 03:21:22,800
nine town homes um that are all around

4859
03:21:22,800 --> 03:21:26,720
1,000 ft stacked together. Um we may

4860
03:21:26,720 --> 03:21:29,279
have some discretion in our objective

4861
03:21:29,279 --> 03:21:33,680
design standards to make uh take a

4862
03:21:33,680 --> 03:21:35,600
little bit more of a regular approach,

4863
03:21:35,600 --> 03:21:38,399
but it will be difficult to codify every

4864
03:21:38,399 --> 03:21:40,160
possible example someone could come

4865
03:21:40,160 --> 03:21:42,720
forward with. Um, so it's just something

4866
03:21:42,720 --> 03:21:44,399
that we're going to have to spend some

4867
03:21:44,399 --> 03:21:47,439
time focusing on with this new lens of

4868
03:21:47,439 --> 03:21:50,640
SB123 in our objective design standards

4869
03:21:50,640 --> 03:21:53,279
that we're currently drafting. Okay,

4870
03:21:53,279 --> 03:21:56,950
I'll let

4871
03:21:56,960 --> 03:22:01,670
» um

4872
03:22:01,680 --> 03:22:03,520
in general with I don't know if you know

4873
03:22:03,520 --> 03:22:05,520
this but with the current ADUs do we

4874
03:22:05,520 --> 03:22:08,000
have any sense of how many are occupied

4875
03:22:08,000 --> 03:22:11,200
like as living quarters versus offices

4876
03:22:11,200 --> 03:22:14,319
or she sheds or you know

4877
03:22:14,319 --> 03:22:16,630
>> uh we don't have specific numbers on

4878
03:22:16,630 --> 03:22:16,640
» uh we don't have specific numbers on

4879
03:22:16,640 --> 03:22:20,399
that there is a certain amount of

4880
03:22:20,399 --> 03:22:22,479
we do have the ability sometimes times

4881
03:22:22,479 --> 03:22:24,800
to at least see when someone is using

4882
03:22:24,800 --> 03:22:27,279
this more to get around square footages

4883
03:22:27,279 --> 03:22:30,319
or to provide that really neat guest

4884
03:22:30,319 --> 03:22:34,640
house next to a pool. Um so but but we

4885
03:22:34,640 --> 03:22:38,399
don't have very explicit numbers on what

4886
03:22:38,399 --> 03:22:41,279
which aus are occupied by family members

4887
03:22:41,279 --> 03:22:44,080
which are being rented out. Um there's

4888
03:22:44,080 --> 03:22:46,239
there's nothing within the planning

4889
03:22:46,239 --> 03:22:47,840
department that requires followup on

4890
03:22:47,840 --> 03:22:50,000
that particular aspect.

4891
03:22:50,000 --> 03:22:52,790
>> Remind me

4892
03:22:52,790 --> 03:22:52,800
» Remind me

4893
03:22:52,800 --> 03:22:54,800
ADUs

4894
03:22:54,800 --> 03:22:56,960
and what is it? What is the definition

4895
03:22:56,960 --> 03:22:59,200
of a JADU as opposed to an ADU?

4896
03:22:59,200 --> 03:23:01,590
>> A junior accessory dwelling unit is more

4897
03:23:01,590 --> 03:23:01,600
» A junior accessory dwelling unit is more

4898
03:23:01,600 --> 03:23:05,120
of a flexible space. It's it's more of

4899
03:23:05,120 --> 03:23:07,279
an efficiency unit usually, and it has

4900
03:23:07,279 --> 03:23:10,239
to be carved out of existing space. So,

4901
03:23:10,239 --> 03:23:12,239
if I come forward and I say, I want to

4902
03:23:12,239 --> 03:23:15,040
turn my garage into this habitable space

4903
03:23:15,040 --> 03:23:17,040
with a tiny little kitchen, but it can

4904
03:23:17,040 --> 03:23:18,720
share some facilities. It can share the

4905
03:23:18,720 --> 03:23:21,359
bathroom with the main home. Um it's

4906
03:23:21,359 --> 03:23:24,239
it's just a a smaller version, a less

4907
03:23:24,239 --> 03:23:27,680
intensive version of an ADU. Um but with

4908
03:23:27,680 --> 03:23:29,680
a junior accessory dwelling unit, the

4909
03:23:29,680 --> 03:23:31,840
homeowner who goes through this does

4910
03:23:31,840 --> 03:23:33,680
have to live on site either in that unit

4911
03:23:33,680 --> 03:23:35,439
or in the primary home. It's meant for

4912
03:23:35,439 --> 03:23:40,389
in-laws, uh parents.

4913
03:23:40,399 --> 03:23:45,279
» Can I ask another qu? Um, and

4914
03:23:45,279 --> 03:23:47,990
>> you showed us a map of the high fire

4915
03:23:47,990 --> 03:23:48,000
» you showed us a map of the high fire

4916
03:23:48,000 --> 03:23:50,319
severity zones and you said there was

4917
03:23:50,319 --> 03:23:53,200
sort of identified I think 50 vacant

4918
03:23:53,200 --> 03:23:54,720
parcels

4919
03:23:54,720 --> 03:23:56,960
and you know there was a reference to

4920
03:23:56,960 --> 03:23:59,120
topography. So it's sort of like how

4921
03:23:59,120 --> 03:24:01,200
many of these

4922
03:24:01,200 --> 03:24:03,200
you know and when you showed us the map

4923
03:24:03,200 --> 03:24:04,880
even before you mentioned topography I

4924
03:24:04,880 --> 03:24:07,439
was thinking yeah but this is Arinda we

4925
03:24:07,439 --> 03:24:11,120
have so many I mean

4926
03:24:11,120 --> 03:24:14,479
how many of these vacant units could be

4927
03:24:14,479 --> 03:24:16,720
even built out

4928
03:24:16,720 --> 03:24:18,790
>> that's why I think that we're going to

4929
03:24:18,790 --> 03:24:18,800
» that's why I think that we're going to

4930
03:24:18,800 --> 03:24:22,000
see this as a slower uptick. Um we have

4931
03:24:22,000 --> 03:24:24,080
been speaking to some developers. We

4932
03:24:24,080 --> 03:24:26,399
have one application in progress right

4933
03:24:26,399 --> 03:24:28,800
now for one lot to be turned into four

4934
03:24:28,800 --> 03:24:32,399
lots. Um, and we've had some interest in

4935
03:24:32,399 --> 03:24:33,920
some other lots in various

4936
03:24:33,920 --> 03:24:35,439
configurations, but no official

4937
03:24:35,439 --> 03:24:37,840
applications yet. Some developers have

4938
03:24:37,840 --> 03:24:39,359
made it clear that there are a lot of

4939
03:24:39,359 --> 03:24:40,880
barriers to this because when you're

4940
03:24:40,880 --> 03:24:42,479
talking about taking lots that are that

4941
03:24:42,479 --> 03:24:44,560
small, particularly for the designated

4942
03:24:44,560 --> 03:24:49,920
remainder um issue, um the the site

4943
03:24:49,920 --> 03:24:52,479
access, finding ways to park these

4944
03:24:52,479 --> 03:24:55,200
places, all of those um all of those

4945
03:24:55,200 --> 03:24:57,920
barriers become pretty significant in

4946
03:24:57,920 --> 03:25:00,399
Orinda's terrain. So there may be some

4947
03:25:00,399 --> 03:25:01,760
opportunities for people to take

4948
03:25:01,760 --> 03:25:04,160
advantage of this at smaller sizes,

4949
03:25:04,160 --> 03:25:06,160
scales that might be slightly closer to

4950
03:25:06,160 --> 03:25:08,880
SP9, which is not to say or guarantee

4951
03:25:08,880 --> 03:25:10,560
that no one will ever come forward with

4952
03:25:10,560 --> 03:25:13,200
a larger subdivision. Um, it's certainly

4953
03:25:13,200 --> 03:25:15,200
a possibility, but there are a lot of

4954
03:25:15,200 --> 03:25:17,439
barriers right now to development in the

4955
03:25:17,439 --> 03:25:19,920
areas that just have remained

4956
03:25:19,920 --> 03:25:21,760
undeveloped so far.

4957
03:25:21,760 --> 03:25:23,750
>> Okay. I'm sorry, mayor. Can I ask one

4958
03:25:23,750 --> 03:25:23,760
» Okay. I'm sorry, mayor. Can I ask one

4959
03:25:23,760 --> 03:25:25,520
more question? and then I'll [laughter]

4960
03:25:25,520 --> 03:25:28,710
>> and then I'll um so but theoretically

4961
03:25:28,710 --> 03:25:28,720
» and then I'll um so but theoretically

4962
03:25:28,720 --> 03:25:32,399
then cuz I was thinking the remainder

4963
03:25:32,399 --> 03:25:35,439
issue might be the issue that is more of

4964
03:25:35,439 --> 03:25:37,439
a

4965
03:25:37,439 --> 03:25:41,040
resulted in development more than the

4966
03:25:41,040 --> 03:25:42,720
vacant lots because when I drive around

4967
03:25:42,720 --> 03:25:44,880
Arinda and I look at vacant lots a lot

4968
03:25:44,880 --> 03:25:47,040
of them I wouldn't want to put a house

4969
03:25:47,040 --> 03:25:49,760
on or anything on because of the

4970
03:25:49,760 --> 03:25:53,439
topography but um theoretically then is

4971
03:25:53,439 --> 03:25:55,279
am Am I understanding this correctly? In

4972
03:25:55,279 --> 03:26:00,000
that if if someone has a lot that is say

4973
03:26:00,000 --> 03:26:03,040
2 acres with a single family home on one

4974
03:26:03,040 --> 03:26:06,000
area side of the lot, they could then

4975
03:26:06,000 --> 03:26:09,359
keep their single family home and a you

4976
03:26:09,359 --> 03:26:13,520
know half an acre, take the other 1.5

4977
03:26:13,520 --> 03:26:17,760
acres and then build what on it? Like

4978
03:26:17,760 --> 03:26:20,560
build an apartmentl looking place with

4979
03:26:20,560 --> 03:26:22,319
10 units

4980
03:26:22,319 --> 03:26:23,429
>> in theory. Yes.

4981
03:26:23,429 --> 03:26:23,439
» in theory. Yes.

4982
03:26:23,439 --> 03:26:24,070
>> Okay.

4983
03:26:24,070 --> 03:26:24,080
» Okay.

4984
03:26:24,080 --> 03:26:26,150
>> Um, but it wouldn't be because of the

4985
03:26:26,150 --> 03:26:26,160
» Um, but it wouldn't be because of the

4986
03:26:26,160 --> 03:26:27,920
designated remainder and the minimum

4987
03:26:27,920 --> 03:26:29,439
density requirements. There's some

4988
03:26:29,439 --> 03:26:32,319
squirly math in there. Uh, if you do a

4989
03:26:32,319 --> 03:26:34,640
designated remainder based off of the

4990
03:26:34,640 --> 03:26:36,720
minimum density requirements, it

4991
03:26:36,720 --> 03:26:39,040
actually results in only be a being able

4992
03:26:39,040 --> 03:26:42,720
to carve off about 3/4 of an acre. Um,

4993
03:26:42,720 --> 03:26:44,800
you can't do that full acre and a half.

4994
03:26:44,800 --> 03:26:46,399
You actually have to limit it even more

4995
03:26:46,399 --> 03:26:48,479
to meet those density requirements. But

4996
03:26:48,479 --> 03:26:50,960
in theory, someone with a 2acre lot, as

4997
03:26:50,960 --> 03:26:54,880
long as they are in a zone um in a zone

4998
03:26:54,880 --> 03:26:57,680
that allows a minimum lot size and their

4999
03:26:57,680 --> 03:26:59,120
slope, because we have these slope

5000
03:26:59,120 --> 03:27:01,920
density requirements in Arinda, um if

5001
03:27:01,920 --> 03:27:05,200
they have a lot that is flat enough and

5002
03:27:05,200 --> 03:27:07,359
has enough space and they can meet the

5003
03:27:07,359 --> 03:27:09,840
requirements for their lot to uh their

5004
03:27:09,840 --> 03:27:13,279
designated remainder parcel um to meet

5005
03:27:13,279 --> 03:27:15,040
all of the objective standards of our

5006
03:27:15,040 --> 03:27:16,560
subdivision

5007
03:27:16,560 --> 03:27:20,319
uh requirements. It's that other part.

5008
03:27:20,319 --> 03:27:22,319
It It's anyone's guess. I mean, they

5009
03:27:22,319 --> 03:27:25,040
could use it to do something similar to

5010
03:27:25,040 --> 03:27:27,439
a smaller version of SP9, but with a

5011
03:27:27,439 --> 03:27:29,600
couple of additional units. Um, they

5012
03:27:29,600 --> 03:27:31,120
could have a couple of family homes.

5013
03:27:31,120 --> 03:27:32,960
They could have a couple of what might

5014
03:27:32,960 --> 03:27:35,760
look like just ADUs, or they could do a

5015
03:27:35,760 --> 03:27:37,520
small apartment building if they were

5016
03:27:37,520 --> 03:27:39,200
able to figure out all of the logistics

5017
03:27:39,200 --> 03:27:43,590
around that.

5018
03:27:43,600 --> 03:27:46,399
And then does the ownership have to all

5019
03:27:46,399 --> 03:27:50,399
be one entity? These can't be right now.

5020
03:27:50,399 --> 03:27:53,040
These can't be sold as separate units.

5021
03:27:53,040 --> 03:27:55,269
>> So that's a part of the way the law

5022
03:27:55,269 --> 03:27:55,279
» So that's a part of the way the law

5023
03:27:55,279 --> 03:27:57,279
works. Uh there's an interaction between

5024
03:27:57,279 --> 03:27:58,960
the subdivision aspect and the

5025
03:27:58,960 --> 03:28:02,479
development aspect. Um if you subdivide

5026
03:28:02,479 --> 03:28:05,760
and then don't develop, you actually

5027
03:28:05,760 --> 03:28:08,160
can't sell off lots individually. You

5028
03:28:08,160 --> 03:28:10,399
would have to sell them as a whole. And

5029
03:28:10,399 --> 03:28:12,880
in theory, we would have restrictions.

5030
03:28:12,880 --> 03:28:15,279
Um, basically as part of the the map

5031
03:28:15,279 --> 03:28:17,680
that goes forward and gets approved, we

5032
03:28:17,680 --> 03:28:19,920
would say, you know, whoever buys that,

5033
03:28:19,920 --> 03:28:22,560
you are also subject to the development

5034
03:28:22,560 --> 03:28:25,920
requirements under SB123.

5035
03:28:25,920 --> 03:28:28,479
Um,

5036
03:28:28,479 --> 03:28:30,880
but as soon as they start developing the

5037
03:28:30,880 --> 03:28:33,920
lots, they're able to sell off developed

5038
03:28:33,920 --> 03:28:36,720
lots. So if uh someone comes in and

5039
03:28:36,720 --> 03:28:38,720
turns one lot into four lots through

5040
03:28:38,720 --> 03:28:41,600
this law and they submit their

5041
03:28:41,600 --> 03:28:43,760
development application in accordance

5042
03:28:43,760 --> 03:28:46,640
with the law that shows development on

5043
03:28:46,640 --> 03:28:48,479
four different lots, they can start

5044
03:28:48,479 --> 03:28:50,239
developing them one by one and as soon

5045
03:28:50,239 --> 03:28:52,560
as they get them uh a certificate of

5046
03:28:52,560 --> 03:28:54,720
occupancy, they can sell that one off,

5047
03:28:54,720 --> 03:28:56,160
sell the other one off, sell the other

5048
03:28:56,160 --> 03:28:59,359
one off. Um so you can sell them

5049
03:28:59,359 --> 03:29:01,200
separately as long as they're developed

5050
03:29:01,200 --> 03:29:03,279
in accordance with the law. You can't

5051
03:29:03,279 --> 03:29:05,439
just sell them off individually and then

5052
03:29:05,439 --> 03:29:06,800
people can do whatever they want with

5053
03:29:06,800 --> 03:29:11,190
them. Um, after that,

5054
03:29:11,200 --> 03:29:13,279
» um, Vice Mayor G asked a question

5055
03:29:13,279 --> 03:29:15,520
earlier about the water and sewer, the

5056
03:29:15,520 --> 03:29:16,000
kind of things [clears throat] that

5057
03:29:16,000 --> 03:29:18,479
normally in a subdivision application

5058
03:29:18,479 --> 03:29:21,120
you would get uh that would get looked

5059
03:29:21,120 --> 03:29:23,760
at. Where in this process do all of

5060
03:29:23,760 --> 03:29:26,160
those adequacies get looked at? We

5061
03:29:26,160 --> 03:29:28,720
require as part of a um as part of our

5062
03:29:28,720 --> 03:29:30,640
submitt requirements and this is similar

5063
03:29:30,640 --> 03:29:33,840
to what we require for vacant for

5064
03:29:33,840 --> 03:29:37,760
subdivisions under SB9 we require will

5065
03:29:37,760 --> 03:29:39,840
serve letters from the appropriate

5066
03:29:39,840 --> 03:29:42,399
entities. So we expect that someone by

5067
03:29:42,399 --> 03:29:45,120
the time they are getting to us as a a

5068
03:29:45,120 --> 03:29:46,960
point of completion we want to see that

5069
03:29:46,960 --> 03:29:49,359
the lots that are going to be subdivided

5070
03:29:49,359 --> 03:29:51,439
are not only being legally created but

5071
03:29:51,439 --> 03:29:54,880
are actually um accessible. uh they can

5072
03:29:54,880 --> 03:29:57,040
someone can do something with that lot.

5073
03:29:57,040 --> 03:29:59,760
So that is the same logic that we apply

5074
03:29:59,760 --> 03:30:01,520
to that we're going to be applying to

5075
03:30:01,520 --> 03:30:04,560
this law. Um someone comes forward and

5076
03:30:04,560 --> 03:30:06,319
they should already have in hand the

5077
03:30:06,319 --> 03:30:08,000
will serve letters that says they're

5078
03:30:08,000 --> 03:30:09,279
going to be able to meet all of their

5079
03:30:09,279 --> 03:30:11,279
requirements. They also have to go to

5080
03:30:11,279 --> 03:30:13,439
the fire district and get approval from

5081
03:30:13,439 --> 03:30:15,600
them and make sure that all of the fire

5082
03:30:15,600 --> 03:30:19,920
access uh um requirements are being met.

5083
03:30:19,920 --> 03:30:22,239
So that for the most part gets ironed

5084
03:30:22,239 --> 03:30:25,279
out during the planning portion. Um but

5085
03:30:25,279 --> 03:30:28,000
they're finalizing all of that with the

5086
03:30:28,000 --> 03:30:31,040
building department at Contra Costa.

5087
03:30:31,040 --> 03:30:32,870
>> I had one other question.

5088
03:30:32,870 --> 03:30:32,880
» I had one other question.

5089
03:30:32,880 --> 03:30:35,910
>> Can we still require one parking spot

5090
03:30:35,910 --> 03:30:35,920
» Can we still require one parking spot

5091
03:30:35,920 --> 03:30:38,880
per residential unit under this law?

5092
03:30:38,880 --> 03:30:41,110
>> Yes, as long as it's not within a

5093
03:30:41,110 --> 03:30:41,120
» Yes, as long as it's not within a

5094
03:30:41,120 --> 03:30:42,389
>> half mile apart. I know you were gonna

5095
03:30:42,389 --> 03:30:42,399
» half mile apart. I know you were gonna

5096
03:30:42,399 --> 03:30:42,800
say that.

5097
03:30:42,800 --> 03:30:46,150
>> Um we can require one spot. Um, our

5098
03:30:46,150 --> 03:30:46,160
» Um we can require one spot. Um, our

5099
03:30:46,160 --> 03:30:48,080
current code requires four spots for

5100
03:30:48,080 --> 03:30:51,359
single family residential parcels. Um,

5101
03:30:51,359 --> 03:30:53,760
two enclosed, two unenced. This law says

5102
03:30:53,760 --> 03:30:56,160
you can only require one spot and it

5103
03:30:56,160 --> 03:30:59,840
does not have to be enclosed.

5104
03:30:59,840 --> 03:31:02,630
>> Were there any other questions?

5105
03:31:02,630 --> 03:31:02,640
» Were there any other questions?

5106
03:31:02,640 --> 03:31:05,830
>> This policy decision that this slide

5107
03:31:05,830 --> 03:31:05,840
» This policy decision that this slide

5108
03:31:05,840 --> 03:31:07,760
we're looking at, [clears throat]

5109
03:31:07,760 --> 03:31:10,399
this only applies to

5110
03:31:10,399 --> 03:31:12,080
1123

5111
03:31:12,080 --> 03:31:14,560
split lots. It doesn't. In other words,

5112
03:31:14,560 --> 03:31:16,640
if we were to choose, for example,

5113
03:31:16,640 --> 03:31:20,469
number one here,

5114
03:31:20,479 --> 03:31:23,439
you could that that is separate and

5115
03:31:23,439 --> 03:31:26,160
apart from SB9

5116
03:31:26,160 --> 03:31:28,160
lot splits where you could they could

5117
03:31:28,160 --> 03:31:31,279
still split lots and include ADUs.

5118
03:31:31,279 --> 03:31:34,150
>> Correct. So, so this would be just

5119
03:31:34,150 --> 03:31:34,160
» Correct. So, so this would be just

5120
03:31:34,160 --> 03:31:36,560
applicable to subdivisions that occur

5121
03:31:36,560 --> 03:31:39,760
under this act. Um, SB9 is separate. We

5122
03:31:39,760 --> 03:31:41,760
do allow ADUs as long as they don't

5123
03:31:41,760 --> 03:31:44,479
exceed a total unit count.

5124
03:31:44,479 --> 03:31:46,630
>> Okay. Well, well, maybe this will come

5125
03:31:46,630 --> 03:31:46,640
» Okay. Well, well, maybe this will come

5126
03:31:46,640 --> 03:31:49,520
out in discussion, so we could just take

5127
03:31:49,520 --> 03:31:53,359
move on. But one thing that I would be

5128
03:31:53,359 --> 03:31:55,920
interested in hearing is from like just

5129
03:31:55,920 --> 03:31:57,920
very brief pros and cons from one

5130
03:31:57,920 --> 03:31:59,600
through three here. But maybe I'll wait

5131
03:31:59,600 --> 03:32:01,279
and that'll come out in discussion. And

5132
03:32:01,279 --> 03:32:03,840
if not, I'll

5133
03:32:03,840 --> 03:32:05,429
>> ask for it unless that's of interest to

5134
03:32:05,429 --> 03:32:05,439
» ask for it unless that's of interest to

5135
03:32:05,439 --> 03:32:05,840
anyone else.

5136
03:32:05,840 --> 03:32:06,790
>> One through three. Do you mind?

5137
03:32:06,790 --> 03:32:06,800
» One through three. Do you mind?

5138
03:32:06,800 --> 03:32:09,510
>> Okay. Sure. Um, so one through three

5139
03:32:09,510 --> 03:32:09,520
» Okay. Sure. Um, so one through three

5140
03:32:09,520 --> 03:32:11,439
pros and cons. Not allowed is the

5141
03:32:11,439 --> 03:32:13,279
easiest. It's the easiest to process.

5142
03:32:13,279 --> 03:32:15,120
It's the easiest to have a rule about.

5143
03:32:15,120 --> 03:32:19,680
Um, it's straightforward. And it also

5144
03:32:19,680 --> 03:32:23,920
uh limits the ability to get many units

5145
03:32:23,920 --> 03:32:27,279
on these particular um these particular

5146
03:32:27,279 --> 03:32:29,840
lots. The one con with this might be

5147
03:32:29,840 --> 03:32:31,920
that we are not affording people who

5148
03:32:31,920 --> 03:32:34,080
might b buy these starting homes some of

5149
03:32:34,080 --> 03:32:35,680
the same opportunities that you would if

5150
03:32:35,680 --> 03:32:36,960
you were buying a different home in

5151
03:32:36,960 --> 03:32:39,359
Arinda where you can later on decide

5152
03:32:39,359 --> 03:32:41,200
that you want a a junior accessory

5153
03:32:41,200 --> 03:32:43,200
dwelling unit or an accessory dwelling

5154
03:32:43,200 --> 03:32:47,520
unit. Um but it is probably procedurally

5155
03:32:47,520 --> 03:32:49,840
one of the and administratively one of

5156
03:32:49,840 --> 03:32:51,760
the easiest to work with. Size

5157
03:32:51,760 --> 03:32:54,640
restrictions and unit caps. Um, this

5158
03:32:54,640 --> 03:32:56,479
could be a little bit more, this is

5159
03:32:56,479 --> 03:32:57,840
something that we would have to look at

5160
03:32:57,840 --> 03:32:59,279
a little bit more closely in order to

5161
03:32:59,279 --> 03:33:01,040
figure out exactly how this would work.

5162
03:33:01,040 --> 03:33:02,800
Um, but chances are this is going to

5163
03:33:02,800 --> 03:33:04,720
this would be enacted through deed

5164
03:33:04,720 --> 03:33:06,800
restrictions and it would require a

5165
03:33:06,800 --> 03:33:08,560
little bit more administrative effort to

5166
03:33:08,560 --> 03:33:10,560
try to figure out, okay, which parcels

5167
03:33:10,560 --> 03:33:12,880
are allowed to have ADUs in the future,

5168
03:33:12,880 --> 03:33:14,479
especially number three with the unit

5169
03:33:14,479 --> 03:33:17,120
caps. Um, let's say you say we don't

5170
03:33:17,120 --> 03:33:19,520
ever want this subdivision to exceed 10

5171
03:33:19,520 --> 03:33:21,680
units. The original developer created

5172
03:33:21,680 --> 03:33:23,760
four units. That means in some way,

5173
03:33:23,760 --> 03:33:25,439
shape, or form we can get another six

5174
03:33:25,439 --> 03:33:28,720
there. Um, just keeping track of

5175
03:33:28,720 --> 03:33:31,520
individual applications in the future

5176
03:33:31,520 --> 03:33:33,200
um, for planning staff might be a little

5177
03:33:33,200 --> 03:33:36,880
bit more difficult. Um,

5178
03:33:36,880 --> 03:33:40,000
fairly akin to how we look at older

5179
03:33:40,000 --> 03:33:42,319
subdivisions now and try to dive into

5180
03:33:42,319 --> 03:33:43,840
what rules apply to specific

5181
03:33:43,840 --> 03:33:46,000
subdivisions.

5182
03:33:46,000 --> 03:33:48,389
>> Thank you. Um before we take public

5183
03:33:48,389 --> 03:33:48,399
» Thank you. Um before we take public

5184
03:33:48,399 --> 03:33:50,800
public comment, we are 3 minutes or four

5185
03:33:50,800 --> 03:33:54,640
minutes to um our extended time, uh I

5186
03:33:54,640 --> 03:33:57,840
would propose that we go ahead and do 15

5187
03:33:57,840 --> 03:33:59,520
more minutes. Hopefully we won't need

5188
03:33:59,520 --> 03:34:02,880
that much, but um I would uh propose to

5189
03:34:02,880 --> 03:34:04,640
extend the meeting to 10:45.

5190
03:34:04,640 --> 03:34:05,750
>> Second.

5191
03:34:05,750 --> 03:34:05,760
» Second.

5192
03:34:05,760 --> 03:34:07,269
>> Uh all in favor?

5193
03:34:07,269 --> 03:34:07,279
» Uh all in favor?

5194
03:34:07,279 --> 03:34:07,590
>> I

5195
03:34:07,590 --> 03:34:07,600
» I

5196
03:34:07,600 --> 03:34:07,910
>> I

5197
03:34:07,910 --> 03:34:07,920
» I

5198
03:34:07,920 --> 03:34:08,550
>> I

5199
03:34:08,550 --> 03:34:08,560
» I

5200
03:34:08,560 --> 03:34:09,990
>> uh city clerk, I assume that's okay

5201
03:34:09,990 --> 03:34:10,000
» uh city clerk, I assume that's okay

5202
03:34:10,000 --> 03:34:12,080
since we no longer have a remote person.

5203
03:34:12,080 --> 03:34:13,269
>> Oh, that's true.

5204
03:34:13,269 --> 03:34:13,279
» Oh, that's true.

5205
03:34:13,279 --> 03:34:16,150
>> Okay, great. Um, with that, Darren, if

5206
03:34:16,150 --> 03:34:16,160
» Okay, great. Um, with that, Darren, if

5207
03:34:16,160 --> 03:34:17,680
you don't mind, I'm going to take um I

5208
03:34:17,680 --> 03:34:19,680
do have a speaker card for Nick Waroff,

5209
03:34:19,680 --> 03:34:21,279
and if anybody else would like to speak,

5210
03:34:21,279 --> 03:34:23,760
uh, please come on up.

5211
03:34:23,760 --> 03:34:26,630
>> Thank you. I will be brief. Uh, I

5212
03:34:26,630 --> 03:34:26,640
» Thank you. I will be brief. Uh, I

5213
03:34:26,640 --> 03:34:29,200
submitted a short written submission. I

5214
03:34:29,200 --> 03:34:32,399
hope you have all looked at it. I

5215
03:34:32,399 --> 03:34:36,880
disagree with the prognostication

5216
03:34:36,880 --> 03:34:39,920
that the law will be infrequently

5217
03:34:39,920 --> 03:34:41,840
invoked

5218
03:34:41,840 --> 03:34:44,960
because there is a major loophole in the

5219
03:34:44,960 --> 03:34:48,640
law. It applies to any vacant

5220
03:34:48,640 --> 03:34:50,319
parcel,

5221
03:34:50,319 --> 03:34:52,960
but a developer or an owner could

5222
03:34:52,960 --> 03:34:54,720
demolish

5223
03:34:54,720 --> 03:34:58,000
his her or their existing house and then

5224
03:34:58,000 --> 03:35:01,120
you have a and there's no waiting time.

5225
03:35:01,120 --> 03:35:04,239
Demolish the house and then invoke SP

5226
03:35:04,239 --> 03:35:06,720
1123.

5227
03:35:06,720 --> 03:35:08,560
And [clears throat] the part that I care

5228
03:35:08,560 --> 03:35:11,200
about is what I've always cared about

5229
03:35:11,200 --> 03:35:13,920
before you,

5230
03:35:13,920 --> 03:35:18,319
which is safe emergency evacuation

5231
03:35:18,319 --> 03:35:22,319
because I can see a number of these

5232
03:35:22,319 --> 03:35:24,880
developments lining up along our

5233
03:35:24,880 --> 03:35:28,319
evacuation routes and adding a lot of

5234
03:35:28,319 --> 03:35:32,880
units. Fortunately, SB123

5235
03:35:32,880 --> 03:35:35,920
has a safety exception that I quote in

5236
03:35:35,920 --> 03:35:38,160
my email.

5237
03:35:38,160 --> 03:35:40,640
And since there'll be no public hearings

5238
03:35:40,640 --> 03:35:43,359
and no public notice,

5239
03:35:43,359 --> 03:35:48,239
my ask tonight is that you provide

5240
03:35:48,239 --> 03:35:51,359
direction to staff. They have to do it

5241
03:35:51,359 --> 03:35:54,399
on an application by application basis,

5242
03:35:54,399 --> 03:35:58,080
but that you provide direction to staff

5243
03:35:58,080 --> 03:36:01,840
to invoke the safety exception

5244
03:36:01,840 --> 03:36:04,239
and deny

5245
03:36:04,239 --> 03:36:07,439
1123 applications

5246
03:36:07,439 --> 03:36:11,520
along or within 100 ft of an evacuation

5247
03:36:11,520 --> 03:36:13,359
route

5248
03:36:13,359 --> 03:36:15,040
because

5249
03:36:15,040 --> 03:36:16,239
may, you know, maybe it'll be

5250
03:36:16,239 --> 03:36:20,640
unnecessary, but I would hate to see

5251
03:36:20,640 --> 03:36:23,359
One, two, three, 10 of these start

5252
03:36:23,359 --> 03:36:26,399
mushrooming as people start moving out

5253
03:36:26,399 --> 03:36:28,800
because a 10-unit apartment is built

5254
03:36:28,800 --> 03:36:31,920
next to them and developers swoop in and

5255
03:36:31,920 --> 03:36:35,439
start developing them. Arinda is the

5256
03:36:35,439 --> 03:36:37,680
most dangerous city in California in

5257
03:36:37,680 --> 03:36:41,439
terms of wildfire risk. Your primary

5258
03:36:41,439 --> 03:36:43,200
responsibility

5259
03:36:43,200 --> 03:36:47,040
as council members is public safety. And

5260
03:36:47,040 --> 03:36:51,200
I would urge you to act responsibly and

5261
03:36:51,200 --> 03:36:55,040
direct staff to invoke the safety

5262
03:36:55,040 --> 03:36:58,960
exception on applications

5263
03:36:58,960 --> 03:37:02,319
along or within 100 ft of an evacuation

5264
03:37:02,319 --> 03:37:05,040
route. Thank you.

5265
03:37:05,040 --> 03:37:06,469
>> Thank you. Looks like we have at least

5266
03:37:06,469 --> 03:37:06,479
» Thank you. Looks like we have at least

5267
03:37:06,479 --> 03:37:08,160
one other public speaker. Please come on

5268
03:37:08,160 --> 03:37:10,479
up. Thank you for waiting so long. I

5269
03:37:10,479 --> 03:37:12,000
know this was a long wait to talk.

5270
03:37:12,000 --> 03:37:15,429
>> I know. Um nice to be able to address

5271
03:37:15,429 --> 03:37:15,439
» I know. Um nice to be able to address

5272
03:37:15,439 --> 03:37:17,439
you, city council. Thank you. My name is

5273
03:37:17,439 --> 03:37:20,479
Annne Arurbrite and mostly I just want

5274
03:37:20,479 --> 03:37:23,920
to agree with what Nick just said. Um, I

5275
03:37:23,920 --> 03:37:28,399
feel very strongly about that that um I

5276
03:37:28,399 --> 03:37:32,479
know um it's easy to forget and become

5277
03:37:32,479 --> 03:37:36,239
complacent about fire risk, but our son

5278
03:37:36,239 --> 03:37:38,640
who lives in LA, his house almost burned

5279
03:37:38,640 --> 03:37:40,560
down. The fire embers reached his

5280
03:37:40,560 --> 03:37:42,560
backyard and the only reason his house

5281
03:37:42,560 --> 03:37:45,520
survived is they had people up all night

5282
03:37:45,520 --> 03:37:47,760
putting out the embers. So, he almost

5283
03:37:47,760 --> 03:37:49,520
lost his house. So, we have to remember

5284
03:37:49,520 --> 03:37:53,120
that that could easily happen here. And

5285
03:37:53,120 --> 03:37:54,800
um we really do count on the city

5286
03:37:54,800 --> 03:37:57,439
council to keep the residents safe. And

5287
03:37:57,439 --> 03:38:00,239
it really is concerning about building

5288
03:38:00,239 --> 03:38:02,399
up density in Arinda which is already

5289
03:38:02,399 --> 03:38:04,640
considered possibly I think the

5290
03:38:04,640 --> 03:38:06,479
chronicle said the next Pacific

5291
03:38:06,479 --> 03:38:09,600
Palisades. So that's a cons a big

5292
03:38:09,600 --> 03:38:13,359
concern. Um and the fact that these

5293
03:38:13,359 --> 03:38:15,840
statewide laws call for ministerial

5294
03:38:15,840 --> 03:38:18,479
imple implementation is actually very

5295
03:38:18,479 --> 03:38:21,920
frightening for individual residents. Um

5296
03:38:21,920 --> 03:38:24,000
because it really means that we rely on

5297
03:38:24,000 --> 03:38:27,120
stated and published guidelines from you

5298
03:38:27,120 --> 03:38:30,960
and from the city um that show that we

5299
03:38:30,960 --> 03:38:33,600
will be safe when these things are put

5300
03:38:33,600 --> 03:38:35,920
into place because we really have no

5301
03:38:35,920 --> 03:38:38,239
recourse. Nobody even has to tell us

5302
03:38:38,239 --> 03:38:41,200
that it's going up next door.

5303
03:38:41,200 --> 03:38:43,680
So that I just really agree with what

5304
03:38:43,680 --> 03:38:45,920
Nick wrote and what he's saying. And I

5305
03:38:45,920 --> 03:38:48,960
know I have a lot of people that last

5306
03:38:48,960 --> 03:38:51,200
minute couldn't come but would come. So

5307
03:38:51,200 --> 03:38:52,560
that I I know there's a lot of people

5308
03:38:52,560 --> 03:38:56,080
that would agree with this. So

5309
03:38:56,080 --> 03:38:58,479
that's that's my comment.

5310
03:38:58,479 --> 03:39:00,950
>> Thank you very much. Um is there anybody

5311
03:39:00,950 --> 03:39:00,960
» Thank you very much. Um is there anybody

5312
03:39:00,960 --> 03:39:02,399
else from the public who would like to

5313
03:39:02,399 --> 03:39:04,239
speak on this matter before we bring it

5314
03:39:04,239 --> 03:39:06,720
up?

5315
03:39:06,720 --> 03:39:09,670
>> Um yeah, please come on up. Um and

5316
03:39:09,670 --> 03:39:09,680
» Um yeah, please come on up. Um and

5317
03:39:09,680 --> 03:39:11,520
please just state your name and um three

5318
03:39:11,520 --> 03:39:11,920
minutes.

5319
03:39:11,920 --> 03:39:16,550
>> Yeah. Hi, Tom Seo. Thanks for uh pulling

5320
03:39:16,550 --> 03:39:16,560
» Yeah. Hi, Tom Seo. Thanks for uh pulling

5321
03:39:16,560 --> 03:39:18,399
this over time. Important issue. You

5322
03:39:18,399 --> 03:39:20,800
know, [clears throat] when when Darren

5323
03:39:20,800 --> 03:39:22,720
was going through the explanation, this

5324
03:39:22,720 --> 03:39:25,120
is incredibly complex, and I appreciate

5325
03:39:25,120 --> 03:39:28,399
that. When I put in the context of other

5326
03:39:28,399 --> 03:39:30,319
communities that have multi-unit

5327
03:39:30,319 --> 03:39:32,000
housing, it makes perfect sense. You

5328
03:39:32,000 --> 03:39:33,680
know, if this were going into a

5329
03:39:33,680 --> 03:39:35,840
community that already I get it, that's

5330
03:39:35,840 --> 03:39:37,760
where that's what the law was written

5331
03:39:37,760 --> 03:39:40,880
for. I don't think it applies to our

5332
03:39:40,880 --> 03:39:42,720
community, and I understand that's not a

5333
03:39:42,720 --> 03:39:45,359
choice we have. It's a state law. But

5334
03:39:45,359 --> 03:39:47,040
that's where the interpretation and what

5335
03:39:47,040 --> 03:39:48,720
you all do as the city council I think

5336
03:39:48,720 --> 03:39:51,359
comes into play [clears throat] because

5337
03:39:51,359 --> 03:39:54,560
you know the interpretation of an ADU

5338
03:39:54,560 --> 03:39:57,200
versus a lot. You know it's ADU I think

5339
03:39:57,200 --> 03:39:58,960
by definition has to be a rental

5340
03:39:58,960 --> 03:40:01,520
property. So if this is intended to be

5341
03:40:01,520 --> 03:40:04,239
for starter homes well it's a starter

5342
03:40:04,239 --> 03:40:06,000
home as a rental maybe but that's not

5343
03:40:06,000 --> 03:40:08,640
really solving the issue. And I it seems

5344
03:40:08,640 --> 03:40:11,920
so convoluted to me to try to shoehorn

5345
03:40:11,920 --> 03:40:14,160
this in to [clears throat] Arinda when

5346
03:40:14,160 --> 03:40:16,479
it's probably makes sense and is

5347
03:40:16,479 --> 03:40:18,080
intended for areas that already have

5348
03:40:18,080 --> 03:40:22,710
multi-unit housing.

5349
03:40:22,720 --> 03:40:25,200
» Thank you very much. Um if there are no

5350
03:40:25,200 --> 03:40:27,279
other questions or comments, I think we

5351
03:40:27,279 --> 03:40:30,479
will bring this up for discussion.

5352
03:40:30,479 --> 03:40:33,520
Uh would anyone like to lead us off?

5353
03:40:33,520 --> 03:40:37,600
I I'd like to ask city staff if um the

5354
03:40:37,600 --> 03:40:41,680
suggestion from Mr. Waroff and others um

5355
03:40:41,680 --> 03:40:45,120
is allowed. Are we allowed to um these

5356
03:40:45,120 --> 03:40:47,359
laws get so complicated as to what we're

5357
03:40:47,359 --> 03:40:50,080
allowed to do and not do? Um I mean I

5358
03:40:50,080 --> 03:40:52,239
think it's a perfectly good suggestion.

5359
03:40:52,239 --> 03:40:54,479
My question is are we allowed to do

5360
03:40:54,479 --> 03:40:54,960
that?

5361
03:40:54,960 --> 03:40:56,630
>> Yeah, I had the same question about

5362
03:40:56,630 --> 03:40:56,640
» Yeah, I had the same question about

5363
03:40:56,640 --> 03:40:58,319
invoking the safety exception because

5364
03:40:58,319 --> 03:41:02,080
that wasn't part of the presentation.

5365
03:41:02,080 --> 03:41:04,560
It's true that the language is in the

5366
03:41:04,560 --> 03:41:06,560
law, but it is also, I think, a

5367
03:41:06,560 --> 03:41:08,800
case-byase determination,

5368
03:41:08,800 --> 03:41:10,720
right? It it's not sort of a blanket

5369
03:41:10,720 --> 03:41:13,279
determination citywide. It would be

5370
03:41:13,279 --> 03:41:15,120
looking at this particular application.

5371
03:41:15,120 --> 03:41:17,520
Can you make the findings that there

5372
03:41:17,520 --> 03:41:19,520
would be these particular safety

5373
03:41:19,520 --> 03:41:22,960
problems? So, I if you'd like to direct

5374
03:41:22,960 --> 03:41:26,080
staff to do some more work to look into

5375
03:41:26,080 --> 03:41:29,439
exactly how that might work, uh, we can

5376
03:41:29,439 --> 03:41:31,920
absolutely do that. Um, but I don't

5377
03:41:31,920 --> 03:41:34,880
recommend tonight, for example,

5378
03:41:34,880 --> 03:41:37,279
directing us that for all 1123

5379
03:41:37,279 --> 03:41:38,720
applications that come in, they should

5380
03:41:38,720 --> 03:41:41,840
be denied based on the safety. that we

5381
03:41:41,840 --> 03:41:44,399
could express to staff that we want

5382
03:41:44,399 --> 03:41:47,439
staff to be prepared or to look into it

5383
03:41:47,439 --> 03:41:49,680
so that in the in the event that it's

5384
03:41:49,680 --> 03:41:51,279
applicable to an application, staff

5385
03:41:51,279 --> 03:41:52,800
would recognize it and be able to

5386
03:41:52,800 --> 03:41:53,439
address it.

5387
03:41:53,439 --> 03:41:54,870
>> Correct. Because it ends up being sort

5388
03:41:54,870 --> 03:41:54,880
» Correct. Because it ends up being sort

5389
03:41:54,880 --> 03:41:56,640
of a two-step process where you have to

5390
03:41:56,640 --> 03:41:59,760
have your objective standards um

5391
03:41:59,760 --> 03:42:02,399
prepared before the application comes in

5392
03:42:02,399 --> 03:42:04,000
and then you measure the application

5393
03:42:04,000 --> 03:42:05,600
against your objective standards to

5394
03:42:05,600 --> 03:42:06,800
determine whether you can make the

5395
03:42:06,800 --> 03:42:09,600
safety findings. So, um, if you'd like

5396
03:42:09,600 --> 03:42:11,520
to provide direction to staff, we can

5397
03:42:11,520 --> 03:42:13,439
work on, uh, figuring out what's

5398
03:42:13,439 --> 03:42:14,640
possible.

5399
03:42:14,640 --> 03:42:20,710
>> Got it. Um,

5400
03:42:20,720 --> 03:42:23,520
I I mean, I I'm not I guess I was I

5401
03:42:23,520 --> 03:42:26,560
would look for sort of you're you're

5402
03:42:26,560 --> 03:42:30,080
putting these options before us, and I

5403
03:42:30,080 --> 03:42:31,439
appreciate going through the pros and

5404
03:42:31,439 --> 03:42:33,920
cons. I didn't hear a clear sort of

5405
03:42:33,920 --> 03:42:36,399
staff recommendation. I can tell you

5406
03:42:36,399 --> 03:42:38,880
looking at this

5407
03:42:38,880 --> 03:42:41,760
for me four is out of the question

5408
03:42:41,760 --> 03:42:44,960
because I don't I mean I would I'm sort

5409
03:42:44,960 --> 03:42:47,600
of leaning towards number one here but

5410
03:42:47,600 --> 03:42:50,319
I'm I I would want to hear if there's a

5411
03:42:50,319 --> 03:42:52,720
staff recommendation or what my

5412
03:42:52,720 --> 03:42:54,399
colleagues think as well. That was my

5413
03:42:54,399 --> 03:42:55,680
other question.

5414
03:42:55,680 --> 03:42:57,750
>> Well, I'm easily going with number one.

5415
03:42:57,750 --> 03:42:57,760
» Well, I'm easily going with number one.

5416
03:42:57,760 --> 03:43:00,494
I think the whole thing is just I

5417
03:43:00,494 --> 03:43:02,160
[sighs] mean it is just way out of

5418
03:43:02,160 --> 03:43:04,319
proportion. We all understand what the

5419
03:43:04,319 --> 03:43:06,880
state wishes they could mandate on

5420
03:43:06,880 --> 03:43:09,439
everyone. But I think I think this level

5421
03:43:09,439 --> 03:43:12,080
of density in the size lots you're

5422
03:43:12,080 --> 03:43:15,120
you're talking about is just

5423
03:43:15,120 --> 03:43:17,600
I I mean it's just wildly inappropriate

5424
03:43:17,600 --> 03:43:19,439
to our community unless you're going to

5425
03:43:19,439 --> 03:43:21,359
do what Mr. Waroff said and everybody's

5426
03:43:21,359 --> 03:43:23,439
going to start tearing down existing

5427
03:43:23,439 --> 03:43:24,960
homes and you're going to flatten

5428
03:43:24,960 --> 03:43:26,960
everything so that you can start turning

5429
03:43:26,960 --> 03:43:29,520
everything into, you know, essentially

5430
03:43:29,520 --> 03:43:32,880
apartment zones. Um, I mean, I just I

5431
03:43:32,880 --> 03:43:36,640
just think it's beyond um, you know, and

5432
03:43:36,640 --> 03:43:39,199
and I shudder to think how this is would

5433
03:43:39,199 --> 03:43:42,000
be potentially accepted by, you know, a

5434
03:43:42,000 --> 03:43:44,080
neighborhood, you know, if if it's a

5435
03:43:44,080 --> 03:43:46,000
current single family neighborhood now.

5436
03:43:46,000 --> 03:43:48,560
And you know, I mean, it's one thing for

5437
03:43:48,560 --> 03:43:50,319
people to be okay with their neighbors

5438
03:43:50,319 --> 03:43:53,439
adding ADUs or, you know, doing certain

5439
03:43:53,439 --> 03:43:54,720
things that are going on in the

5440
03:43:54,720 --> 03:43:56,640
community that I think are pretty well

5441
03:43:56,640 --> 03:43:58,880
accepted, but the idea that you might

5442
03:43:58,880 --> 03:44:00,880
all of a sudden end up with, you know,

5443
03:44:00,880 --> 03:44:03,199
living next door to somebody building a

5444
03:44:03,199 --> 03:44:07,760
10-unit apartment uh complex is um I

5445
03:44:07,760 --> 03:44:09,920
mean, it it I'll be honest, it's just

5446
03:44:09,920 --> 03:44:11,760
frightening in terms of thinking what

5447
03:44:11,760 --> 03:44:14,800
our um community is, you know, what the

5448
03:44:14,800 --> 03:44:17,840
reaction is going to And I and I fully

5449
03:44:17,840 --> 03:44:20,239
agree with the public safety issues. I

5450
03:44:20,239 --> 03:44:24,479
mean I you know I it's we're lucky I

5451
03:44:24,479 --> 03:44:26,800
guess that so much of I mean we're lucky

5452
03:44:26,800 --> 03:44:28,399
we're not lucky. We're we're horribly

5453
03:44:28,399 --> 03:44:31,120
unlucky that we're have such high fire

5454
03:44:31,120 --> 03:44:34,000
risk but you know if it's reducing some

5455
03:44:34,000 --> 03:44:36,080
of you know what we're able to do here.

5456
03:44:36,080 --> 03:44:39,760
But, you know, quite frankly, I I wish

5457
03:44:39,760 --> 03:44:42,479
that this was a situation where our

5458
03:44:42,479 --> 03:44:44,319
community didn't have to accept this law

5459
03:44:44,319 --> 03:44:47,199
at all over fire danger. So, so it's

5460
03:44:47,199 --> 03:44:49,520
easy for me to just say no. I mean, this

5461
03:44:49,520 --> 03:44:51,600
this would be an amount of density that

5462
03:44:51,600 --> 03:44:55,120
I just find very objectionable. Um, even

5463
03:44:55,120 --> 03:44:58,000
recognizing, you know, the housing needs

5464
03:44:58,000 --> 03:45:01,199
of the state. But, um, I I would simply

5465
03:45:01,199 --> 03:45:06,239
fall on the no, no more, no more than

5466
03:45:06,239 --> 03:45:07,520
I'll just chime in because this we're

5467
03:45:07,520 --> 03:45:10,800
kind of a smaller group tonight. Um, and

5468
03:45:10,800 --> 03:45:13,520
it's funny because I had I fell out of

5469
03:45:13,520 --> 03:45:15,279
my chair when the ADU laws first came

5470
03:45:15,279 --> 03:45:16,800
through and then I fell out of my chair

5471
03:45:16,800 --> 03:45:19,120
when SB9 came through and we were told

5472
03:45:19,120 --> 03:45:20,880
there was no such thing as single family

5473
03:45:20,880 --> 03:45:22,800
zoning in the state of California and it

5474
03:45:22,800 --> 03:45:27,680
was just horrific. Um, and I actually

5475
03:45:27,680 --> 03:45:29,120
brought this when I saw these in the

5476
03:45:29,120 --> 03:45:30,720
objective design standards and I was

5477
03:45:30,720 --> 03:45:33,199
like, what are our standards for small

5478
03:45:33,199 --> 03:45:35,600
lot subdivisions? like what are these

5479
03:45:35,600 --> 03:45:38,640
things? And you know, yeah, it can be a

5480
03:45:38,640 --> 03:45:40,399
small apartment building, it can be a

5481
03:45:40,399 --> 03:45:41,840
condo subdivision, you know, two

5482
03:45:41,840 --> 03:45:44,640
stories, but still um it could be town

5483
03:45:44,640 --> 03:45:46,479
homes, it could be all sorts of stuff.

5484
03:45:46,479 --> 03:45:48,880
And so I I'm really glad we're having

5485
03:45:48,880 --> 03:45:52,479
this conversation because it's

5486
03:45:52,479 --> 03:45:55,040
it's not just new. It's it's hard to

5487
03:45:55,040 --> 03:45:59,040
even picture what these look like, but

5488
03:45:59,040 --> 03:46:02,160
um SP9 and the ADUs actually turned out

5489
03:46:02,160 --> 03:46:05,040
to be fine in Arinda. The way that

5490
03:46:05,040 --> 03:46:07,439
people are doing most of their ADUs,

5491
03:46:07,439 --> 03:46:09,600
they're not renting them to strangers,

5492
03:46:09,600 --> 03:46:11,199
right? They're either using them as it

5493
03:46:11,199 --> 03:46:13,040
as a way to expand their house with

5494
03:46:13,040 --> 03:46:15,439
ministerial permitting or they're using

5495
03:46:15,439 --> 03:46:20,239
it for caregivers, in-laws,

5496
03:46:20,239 --> 03:46:22,080
boomerang children. They've actually

5497
03:46:22,080 --> 03:46:23,439
been used to create sort of family

5498
03:46:23,439 --> 03:46:26,399
compounds. And it's the addition of

5499
03:46:26,399 --> 03:46:29,600
density in the way that's appropriate to

5500
03:46:29,600 --> 03:46:31,760
Arinda that we're not seeing apartment

5501
03:46:31,760 --> 03:46:34,479
towers in our downtown. What we're

5502
03:46:34,479 --> 03:46:37,520
seeing is people taking the abundance of

5503
03:46:37,520 --> 03:46:40,319
land and really nice neighborhoods and

5504
03:46:40,319 --> 03:46:42,319
just adding

5505
03:46:42,319 --> 03:46:45,439
some density. And so the the reality has

5506
03:46:45,439 --> 03:46:48,720
actually been just fine. And it was it

5507
03:46:48,720 --> 03:46:51,439
was those were both terrifying. So, um,

5508
03:46:51,439 --> 03:46:54,239
when I heard, you know, 10 little tiny

5509
03:46:54,239 --> 03:46:57,359
homes on a lot, it just boggles the

5510
03:46:57,359 --> 03:47:00,319
mind. But, um, the reason I would

5511
03:47:00,319 --> 03:47:02,160
actually advocate for number three is I

5512
03:47:02,160 --> 03:47:04,880
suspect that the kind of product we're

5513
03:47:04,880 --> 03:47:08,319
actually going to see built will be more

5514
03:47:08,319 --> 03:47:12,239
like two homes with ADUs.

5515
03:47:12,239 --> 03:47:14,800
They might use the junior ADU as a

5516
03:47:14,800 --> 03:47:17,520
feature in a home. I sort of think as

5517
03:47:17,520 --> 03:47:19,520
long as it's within the same 10 that you

5518
03:47:19,520 --> 03:47:22,160
could do as identically sized or

5519
03:47:22,160 --> 03:47:24,239
similarly sized separate units,

5520
03:47:24,239 --> 03:47:26,000
something that might be two or three

5521
03:47:26,000 --> 03:47:30,080
units with a mini feature. It it just

5522
03:47:30,080 --> 03:47:32,560
gives people the flexibility to do the

5523
03:47:32,560 --> 03:47:35,120
correct design that they want to do. And

5524
03:47:35,120 --> 03:47:37,520
I don't think there's any different

5525
03:47:37,520 --> 03:47:39,439
outcome between one and three other than

5526
03:47:39,439 --> 03:47:42,080
three might have some more small units

5527
03:47:42,080 --> 03:47:46,239
than more big units. So I I find three

5528
03:47:46,239 --> 03:47:49,439
to be actually more friendly to people

5529
03:47:49,439 --> 03:47:52,479
who are going to do it anyway. Um so

5530
03:47:52,479 --> 03:47:54,160
that would be my preference. The

5531
03:47:54,160 --> 03:47:55,279
question we haven't even talked about is

5532
03:47:55,279 --> 03:47:57,120
the one about whether you would allow

5533
03:47:57,120 --> 03:47:59,199
further SB9 lot splits because I think

5534
03:47:59,199 --> 03:48:02,239
that was such a an obvious no that we're

5535
03:48:02,239 --> 03:48:04,000
not even talking about it.

5536
03:48:04,000 --> 03:48:05,349
>> Just to be clear on that second question

5537
03:48:05,349 --> 03:48:05,359
» Just to be clear on that second question

5538
03:48:05,359 --> 03:48:07,680
about further subdivision, I'm a hard no

5539
03:48:07,680 --> 03:48:11,040
on that. Can I

5540
03:48:11,040 --> 03:48:13,760
just probe that for a second between one

5541
03:48:13,760 --> 03:48:15,199
and three? Because those are the two

5542
03:48:15,199 --> 03:48:17,760
that I was looking at. But I assume that

5543
03:48:17,760 --> 03:48:21,439
it would be frankly just cheaper to

5544
03:48:21,439 --> 03:48:25,040
build under three to build more units

5545
03:48:25,040 --> 03:48:27,040
than it would be under one. And that's

5546
03:48:27,040 --> 03:48:30,000
why this is being proposed. I mean, is

5547
03:48:30,000 --> 03:48:32,479
that is that correct?

5548
03:48:32,479 --> 03:48:36,560
I I believe um that we could probably

5549
03:48:36,560 --> 03:48:38,640
tailor this in such a manner that we

5550
03:48:38,640 --> 03:48:40,720
wouldn't expect those ADUs or junior

5551
03:48:40,720 --> 03:48:42,640
accessory dwelling units to be

5552
03:48:42,640 --> 03:48:45,279
constructed as part of the initial um

5553
03:48:45,279 --> 03:48:49,600
development. Um this I I see three as

5554
03:48:49,600 --> 03:48:52,319
more of a future flexibility

5555
03:48:52,319 --> 03:48:53,760
um where something has already been

5556
03:48:53,760 --> 03:48:57,199
subdivided into four, five units and

5557
03:48:57,199 --> 03:48:59,439
future homeowners of those units could

5558
03:48:59,439 --> 03:49:01,040
then come in later on and say, "You know

5559
03:49:01,040 --> 03:49:03,279
what? I need an ADU or I need to carve

5560
03:49:03,279 --> 03:49:05,040
out a space to be a junior accessory

5561
03:49:05,040 --> 03:49:05,840
dwelling, right?

5562
03:49:05,840 --> 03:49:07,830
>> So, it wouldn't immediately necessarily

5563
03:49:07,830 --> 03:49:07,840
» So, it wouldn't immediately necessarily

5564
03:49:07,840 --> 03:49:09,760
result in those additional units. It

5565
03:49:09,760 --> 03:49:10,880
would just

5566
03:49:10,880 --> 03:49:12,870
>> for

5567
03:49:12,870 --> 03:49:12,880
» for

5568
03:49:12,880 --> 03:49:15,199
three makes me think that you will end

5569
03:49:15,199 --> 03:49:20,479
up with more units than one

5570
03:49:20,479 --> 03:49:22,880
either because it's more costefficient

5571
03:49:22,880 --> 03:49:25,760
to do so or because of you can do it in

5572
03:49:25,760 --> 03:49:27,760
stages in terms of building. And that's

5573
03:49:27,760 --> 03:49:30,880
why I'm sort of frankly leaning towards

5574
03:49:30,880 --> 03:49:32,800
one because it gives us a tiny little

5575
03:49:32,800 --> 03:49:35,439
bit of local control, but I'm also

5576
03:49:35,439 --> 03:49:37,920
looking to staff it. You know, I mean,

5577
03:49:37,920 --> 03:49:41,840
we do want to in we have to improve, you

5578
03:49:41,840 --> 03:49:43,760
know, we have to increase the amount of

5579
03:49:43,760 --> 03:49:46,239
housing locally or at least encourage

5580
03:49:46,239 --> 03:49:48,239
it. And so, but we want to do it in a

5581
03:49:48,239 --> 03:49:51,120
way that makes sense. And I don't I

5582
03:49:51,120 --> 03:49:54,479
don't certainly

5583
03:49:54,479 --> 03:49:56,399
when you had a single family home

5584
03:49:56,399 --> 03:49:59,279
putting in, you know, five mini homes or

5585
03:49:59,279 --> 03:50:02,479
10 mini homes for what it's worth. That

5586
03:50:02,479 --> 03:50:04,800
answer kind of uh my mind a little bit

5587
03:50:04,800 --> 03:50:06,239
because I I was thinking of it as like

5588
03:50:06,239 --> 03:50:08,479
the initial design could be more

5589
03:50:08,479 --> 03:50:10,960
flexible. But yeah, building five and

5590
03:50:10,960 --> 03:50:15,279
then turning it into seven um is not the

5591
03:50:15,279 --> 03:50:18,880
desired direction. And um you can always

5592
03:50:18,880 --> 03:50:20,720
amend laws. So, I would be fine starting

5593
03:50:20,720 --> 03:50:22,319
with one and just knowing we can always

5594
03:50:22,319 --> 03:50:24,800
come back. If you, you know, if planning

5595
03:50:24,800 --> 03:50:26,960
says, "Hey, we're seeing things that

5596
03:50:26,960 --> 03:50:28,720
would be better if we had this

5597
03:50:28,720 --> 03:50:31,439
flexibility or we had more discretion.

5598
03:50:31,439 --> 03:50:34,800
Um, I'd be fine starting more limited

5599
03:50:34,800 --> 03:50:37,920
and um and expanding if the need

5600
03:50:37,920 --> 03:50:39,199
presented itself." And it sounds like

5601
03:50:39,199 --> 03:50:41,120
you guys are both inclined to one

5602
03:50:41,120 --> 03:50:42,000
anyway.

5603
03:50:42,000 --> 03:50:43,830
>> Yeah, I I should have asked this during

5604
03:50:43,830 --> 03:50:43,840
» Yeah, I I should have asked this during

5605
03:50:43,840 --> 03:50:45,359
the questions, but this is a very

5606
03:50:45,359 --> 03:50:48,399
difficult format, difficult time, etc.

5607
03:50:48,399 --> 03:50:50,640
And that is are we allowed to have

5608
03:50:50,640 --> 03:50:52,560
different kind of objective design

5609
03:50:52,560 --> 03:50:54,960
standards for this than we are for

5610
03:50:54,960 --> 03:50:57,279
things that we have in downtown?

5611
03:50:57,279 --> 03:50:57,910
>> Oh, that's a good question.

5612
03:50:57,910 --> 03:50:57,920
» Oh, that's a good question.

5613
03:50:57,920 --> 03:51:00,389
>> I mean, is this get a are we allowed to

5614
03:51:00,389 --> 03:51:00,399
» I mean, is this get a are we allowed to

5615
03:51:00,399 --> 03:51:03,760
do specific set of objective design

5616
03:51:03,760 --> 03:51:07,040
standards just for this law?

5617
03:51:07,040 --> 03:51:07,429
>> Oh,

5618
03:51:07,429 --> 03:51:07,439
» Oh,

5619
03:51:07,439 --> 03:51:08,630
>> yes. [laughter]

5620
03:51:08,630 --> 03:51:08,640
» yes. [laughter]

5621
03:51:08,640 --> 03:51:10,389
>> Well, I've seen our planning direct. I

5622
03:51:10,389 --> 03:51:10,399
» Well, I've seen our planning direct. I

5623
03:51:10,399 --> 03:51:12,080
think the answer is that you're going to

5624
03:51:12,080 --> 03:51:13,760
need to apply the same objective

5625
03:51:13,760 --> 03:51:16,880
standards to these single family zoned

5626
03:51:16,880 --> 03:51:19,199
parcels as you do to your other single

5627
03:51:19,199 --> 03:51:20,239
family zoned parcels.

5628
03:51:20,239 --> 03:51:22,389
>> There's an there's a section in our

5629
03:51:22,389 --> 03:51:22,399
» There's an there's a section in our

5630
03:51:22,399 --> 03:51:24,080
current draft. There's like a little

5631
03:51:24,080 --> 03:51:26,160
chapter for small lot subdivision.

5632
03:51:26,160 --> 03:51:28,319
Correct. So there are different

5633
03:51:28,319 --> 03:51:30,000
standards. It's just that it's not a

5634
03:51:30,000 --> 03:51:32,080
different law. It's one law that's that

5635
03:51:32,080 --> 03:51:34,479
says if you're a duplex or if you're a

5636
03:51:34,479 --> 03:51:36,560
single family. Isn't that right? Well,

5637
03:51:36,560 --> 03:51:39,040
so the downtown has its own already

5638
03:51:39,040 --> 03:51:42,239
adopted objective design standards that

5639
03:51:42,239 --> 03:51:44,160
don't affect any of the single family

5640
03:51:44,160 --> 03:51:46,239
residentially zoned parcels. We're

5641
03:51:46,239 --> 03:51:48,479
working on but have not yet brought to

5642
03:51:48,479 --> 03:51:55,590
you for adoption the citywide ODS. Okay.

5643
03:51:55,600 --> 03:51:57,840
By the way, we're uh about to need more

5644
03:51:57,840 --> 03:52:01,030
time. Um [laughter]

5645
03:52:01,040 --> 03:52:03,439
five minutes or is that too aggressive?

5646
03:52:03,439 --> 03:52:05,830
>> Let's move to extend by 10 minutes. So

5647
03:52:05,830 --> 03:52:05,840
» Let's move to extend by 10 minutes. So

5648
03:52:05,840 --> 03:52:08,560
till 10:55.

5649
03:52:08,560 --> 03:52:09,110
>> All right.

5650
03:52:09,110 --> 03:52:09,120
» All right.

5651
03:52:09,120 --> 03:52:12,150
>> And let's I'll move we extend to 10:55.

5652
03:52:12,150 --> 03:52:12,160
» And let's I'll move we extend to 10:55.

5653
03:52:12,160 --> 03:52:13,760
Second. All in favor?

5654
03:52:13,760 --> 03:52:15,510
>> All in favor? I

5655
03:52:15,510 --> 03:52:15,520
» All in favor? I

5656
03:52:15,520 --> 03:52:17,510
>> I

5657
03:52:17,510 --> 03:52:17,520
» I

5658
03:52:17,520 --> 03:52:21,510
>> um

5659
03:52:21,520 --> 03:52:25,600
I think we have consensus on number one

5660
03:52:25,600 --> 03:52:27,920
in this policy decision unless staff

5661
03:52:27,920 --> 03:52:30,720
wants to tell us why we should be doing

5662
03:52:30,720 --> 03:52:31,279
something else.

5663
03:52:31,279 --> 03:52:33,349
>> I think you have consensus on both

5664
03:52:33,349 --> 03:52:33,359
» I think you have consensus on both

5665
03:52:33,359 --> 03:52:36,560
actually. you have uh direction pursue

5666
03:52:36,560 --> 03:52:39,040
one and I don't think unless I've heard

5667
03:52:39,040 --> 03:52:41,359
otherwise staff is not recommending

5668
03:52:41,359 --> 03:52:43,269
>> additional lot split opportunities under

5669
03:52:43,269 --> 03:52:43,279
» additional lot split opportunities under

5670
03:52:43,279 --> 03:52:46,239
SB9. Uh it doesn't seem like you would

5671
03:52:46,239 --> 03:52:48,080
like to see that either. So it sounds

5672
03:52:48,080 --> 03:52:50,800
like we've got policy direction. But and

5673
03:52:50,800 --> 03:52:53,199
then the one thing I would like to see

5674
03:52:53,199 --> 03:52:55,840
if we're in agreement on is can we

5675
03:52:55,840 --> 03:52:58,720
explore whether

5676
03:52:58,720 --> 03:53:01,840
we can do anything else regarding public

5677
03:53:01,840 --> 03:53:04,800
safety that isn't just application by

5678
03:53:04,800 --> 03:53:06,640
application. So those are the three

5679
03:53:06,640 --> 03:53:09,199
things I wrote down. Uh option number

5680
03:53:09,199 --> 03:53:13,279
one on ADUs, no SB9 lot splits and staff

5681
03:53:13,279 --> 03:53:15,680
pursue the what it would take to make

5682
03:53:15,680 --> 03:53:18,560
safety findings.

5683
03:53:18,560 --> 03:53:20,950
>> Yes, please. And um we'd love to see

5684
03:53:20,950 --> 03:53:20,960
» Yes, please. And um we'd love to see

5685
03:53:20,960 --> 03:53:22,720
those objective design standards come

5686
03:53:22,720 --> 03:53:25,279
back quickly because they're pretty uh

5687
03:53:25,279 --> 03:53:26,800
they're pretty important in all of this.

5688
03:53:26,800 --> 03:53:30,239
So um but um with that, I think we're

5689
03:53:30,239 --> 03:53:32,880
good on this matter.

5690
03:53:32,880 --> 03:53:33,830
>> Yes, we're good on this.

5691
03:53:33,830 --> 03:53:33,840
» Yes, we're good on this.

5692
03:53:33,840 --> 03:53:36,229
>> Yes, I think staff got enough direction

5693
03:53:36,229 --> 03:53:36,239
» Yes, I think staff got enough direction

5694
03:53:36,239 --> 03:53:38,080
to move forward with the next best.

5695
03:53:38,080 --> 03:53:40,229
>> Terrific. And since we've already done

5696
03:53:40,229 --> 03:53:40,239
» Terrific. And since we've already done

5697
03:53:40,239 --> 03:53:41,600
the various reports, I believe

5698
03:53:41,600 --> 03:53:43,030
>> you for answering all our questions.

5699
03:53:43,030 --> 03:53:43,040
» you for answering all our questions.

5700
03:53:43,040 --> 03:53:45,750
>> Yeah, thank you again. That was a

5701
03:53:45,750 --> 03:53:45,760
» Yeah, thank you again. That was a

5702
03:53:45,760 --> 03:53:47,590
>> really novel thing to get our arms

5703
03:53:47,590 --> 03:53:47,600
» really novel thing to get our arms

5704
03:53:47,600 --> 03:53:50,479
around and it's not as novel as it

5705
03:53:50,479 --> 03:53:52,560
should be. Um, are there any matters

5706
03:53:52,560 --> 03:53:54,160
initiated?

5707
03:53:54,160 --> 03:53:55,910
>> I move we adjourn.

5708
03:53:55,910 --> 03:53:55,920
» I move we adjourn.

5709
03:53:55,920 --> 03:53:56,469
>> Motion to

5710
03:53:56,469 --> 03:53:56,479
» Motion to

5711
03:53:56,479 --> 03:53:57,590
>> Could it hit my five minutes?

5712
03:53:57,590 --> 03:53:57,600
» Could it hit my five minutes?

5713
03:53:57,600 --> 03:54:00,600
>> Second.