1 00:00:16,225 --> 00:00:17,725 And then it's really hard to visualize 2 00:00:17,785 --> 00:00:19,885 how you could ever put it in, right? 3 00:00:20,025 --> 00:00:21,025 You know like 4 00:00:23,595 --> 00:00:25,445 Good Evening by the clock on the wall. 5 00:00:25,445 --> 00:00:26,605 It is now 6:00 PM 6 00:00:26,785 --> 00:00:30,245 and it's time for the SMO Township Planning Commission 7 00:00:30,245 --> 00:00:31,565 meeting of September the 24th. 8 00:00:31,985 --> 00:00:35,245 2026. Would you please rise and join us? 9 00:00:35,245 --> 00:00:37,605 In the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, 10 00:00:40,045 --> 00:00:44,125 I plead to the flag of the United States of America 11 00:00:44,825 --> 00:00:47,205 and to the republic for which it stands. 12 00:00:47,825 --> 00:00:51,685 One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty 13 00:00:51,985 --> 00:00:53,245 and justice for all. 14 00:00:58,495 --> 00:01:01,165 Thank you. We have an agenda in front of us. 15 00:01:01,235 --> 00:01:03,445 Does anybody have any additions 16 00:01:03,445 --> 00:01:07,125 or corrections to be made to the agenda as it is prepared? 17 00:01:11,265 --> 00:01:12,925 If there are none, can I have a motion 18 00:01:12,985 --> 00:01:14,085 to approve the agenda? 19 00:01:14,485 --> 00:01:17,885 I move that we approve this agenda as prepared. 20 00:01:18,345 --> 00:01:21,405 Is there a second? Second Support. 21 00:01:21,665 --> 00:01:23,885 We have a motion and a second to approve the agenda. 22 00:01:24,065 --> 00:01:27,125 All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. 23 00:01:27,185 --> 00:01:30,525 All opposed. And the ayes have it. The agenda is approved. 24 00:01:30,525 --> 00:01:33,045 Moving on. Item number four, approval of the minutes 25 00:01:33,145 --> 00:01:35,885 of September the 10th, 2026. 26 00:01:37,525 --> 00:01:40,765 Everyone's had the opportunity to review the minutes. 27 00:01:41,305 --> 00:01:43,205 Are there any corrections that need to be made? 28 00:01:45,945 --> 00:01:49,195 Hearing none. If it meets with everyone's approval. 29 00:01:49,295 --> 00:01:53,635 Can I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented? 30 00:01:54,575 --> 00:01:56,115 The minutes, I'm sorry, as presented. 31 00:02:01,025 --> 00:02:03,525 No, go ahead. Move 32 00:02:03,525 --> 00:02:06,205 that we accept the minutes from the past meeting 33 00:02:06,465 --> 00:02:07,525 as prepared. 34 00:02:08,425 --> 00:02:11,565 And do we have a second? Second. 35 00:02:12,305 --> 00:02:14,405 All those in favor of approving the minutes please 36 00:02:14,435 --> 00:02:15,765 signify by saying aye. 37 00:02:16,025 --> 00:02:19,845 Aye. Aye. All opposed. And the minutes are approved. 38 00:02:20,185 --> 00:02:23,445 Moving on to item number five. This is a work item. 39 00:02:23,555 --> 00:02:26,125 It's dealing with the zoning ordinance updates. 40 00:02:27,615 --> 00:02:31,165 These are suggested updates to the non-residential schedule 41 00:02:31,625 --> 00:02:33,845 of regulations and land uses. 42 00:02:34,945 --> 00:02:37,445 Mr. Chair, before Jason gets started, 43 00:02:37,635 --> 00:02:40,445 Trustee Chapman asked me to announce for him 44 00:02:40,445 --> 00:02:43,125 that he has a military assignment this week 45 00:02:43,125 --> 00:02:44,965 and that is why he is not president. 46 00:02:45,475 --> 00:02:47,605 He's a colonel in the United States Air Force 47 00:02:48,065 --> 00:02:50,365 and so he has a temporary military assignment keeping 48 00:02:50,385 --> 00:02:51,565 him from the meeting tonight. 49 00:02:52,025 --> 00:02:54,245 Now we thank him for his service, not only here 50 00:02:54,305 --> 00:02:55,685 but in the military as well. 51 00:02:55,745 --> 00:02:58,725 That's a lot on your plate. Okay, the 52 00:02:58,725 --> 00:02:59,845 Floor is all yours. 53 00:03:00,615 --> 00:03:02,445 Thank you. Good evening. It's nice to be here 54 00:03:02,445 --> 00:03:03,605 with you all again tonight. 55 00:03:04,865 --> 00:03:05,965 As you mentioned tonight, 56 00:03:06,325 --> 00:03:08,765 last time we were together we talked all about residential 57 00:03:08,915 --> 00:03:12,685 uses and residential standards and and district regulations. 58 00:03:12,685 --> 00:03:14,485 Tonight we're turning our attention towards 59 00:03:15,465 --> 00:03:17,525 the commercial districts and standards. 60 00:03:18,445 --> 00:03:19,445 Before we dive into that, 61 00:03:19,445 --> 00:03:22,125 just a reminder on our things sitting in our parking lot, 62 00:03:22,135 --> 00:03:23,805 these are the things that we've identified 63 00:03:23,805 --> 00:03:25,405 during discussion throughout this process 64 00:03:25,595 --> 00:03:28,445 that we have promised to come back to A couple 65 00:03:28,545 --> 00:03:30,485 of those things we hit on tonight, 66 00:03:31,045 --> 00:03:32,525 but they're not totally out of the parking lot. 67 00:03:32,525 --> 00:03:34,845 They're gonna come up again for us as we work 68 00:03:34,845 --> 00:03:36,845 through additional updates to the zoning ordinance. 69 00:03:37,625 --> 00:03:40,085 So tonight you may have noticed in your packet that 70 00:03:40,395 --> 00:03:41,765 that building transparency 71 00:03:41,905 --> 00:03:44,485 or how much, how much of a building frontage is made up 72 00:03:44,485 --> 00:03:45,805 of windows came up again. 73 00:03:46,305 --> 00:03:48,245 So we're talking about windows, not transparency 74 00:03:48,245 --> 00:03:50,245 because that's a much more clear and obvious term. 75 00:03:50,465 --> 00:03:52,845 And then there is an opportunity to move some 76 00:03:52,845 --> 00:03:55,645 of our shared parking standards into one place instead 77 00:03:55,645 --> 00:03:57,205 of them being buried in other areas. 78 00:03:57,385 --> 00:03:59,125 So we'll talk about those a little bit tonight. 79 00:04:00,375 --> 00:04:03,925 There are two minor errors in your packet that I wanted 80 00:04:03,925 --> 00:04:05,165 to point out and I apologize 81 00:04:05,485 --> 00:04:07,165 'cause this slide got totally screwed up. 82 00:04:07,615 --> 00:04:08,845 Gimme just one second. 83 00:04:21,945 --> 00:04:24,525 All right. So the one minor error 84 00:04:24,555 --> 00:04:28,205 that is in your packet that I wanted to point out 85 00:04:28,745 --> 00:04:31,125 was we're talking about the mixed use district tonight in 86 00:04:31,125 --> 00:04:33,285 the table of regulations we summarize it 87 00:04:33,285 --> 00:04:35,125 as MX U for mixed use. 88 00:04:35,185 --> 00:04:37,165 It should be mu. So if any of you notice that 89 00:04:37,165 --> 00:04:39,045 and we're confused, I apologize. 90 00:04:39,265 --> 00:04:41,485 We talk about the mixed use district, we'll abbreviate it 91 00:04:41,485 --> 00:04:43,885 as mu not MXU going forward. 92 00:04:45,865 --> 00:04:49,965 The other issue is that in that same schedule 93 00:04:49,965 --> 00:04:54,725 of regulations, the term frontage exists next 94 00:04:54,745 --> 00:04:56,725 to several of the industrial districts. 95 00:04:56,725 --> 00:04:58,245 That frontage term shouldn't be there. 96 00:04:58,885 --> 00:05:01,285 It was a misunderstanding on my part on exactly how 97 00:05:01,285 --> 00:05:02,325 that worked in the ordinance. 98 00:05:02,625 --> 00:05:06,405 So just that that term frontage crossed that, that out, 99 00:05:06,405 --> 00:05:09,125 that won't be present in in any of the drafts going forward. 100 00:05:09,125 --> 00:05:12,245 That was an an error that Jodi, Leanna 101 00:05:12,325 --> 00:05:13,725 and team pointed out to us today. 102 00:05:14,305 --> 00:05:16,725 So just a couple of little record keeping things 103 00:05:16,745 --> 00:05:18,165 for your packet as we walk through. 104 00:05:19,625 --> 00:05:22,005 As a reminder, we are continuing 105 00:05:22,005 --> 00:05:24,685 to consolidate zoning districts for simplicity's sake. 106 00:05:24,705 --> 00:05:26,725 So tonight we're looking at all those zoning districts in 107 00:05:26,725 --> 00:05:28,365 the red box here on your screen. 108 00:05:29,465 --> 00:05:30,525 So all of those commercial 109 00:05:30,525 --> 00:05:32,125 zoning districts we're dealing with. 110 00:05:33,265 --> 00:05:34,845 You will notice as we walk through it 111 00:05:34,845 --> 00:05:36,285 that we are suggesting a change 112 00:05:36,385 --> 00:05:38,205 to the sea local business district 113 00:05:38,205 --> 00:05:40,765 to be called regional commercial that aligns 114 00:05:40,765 --> 00:05:42,805 with the comprehensive plan designation for 115 00:05:42,805 --> 00:05:44,485 that place type as regional corridor. 116 00:05:45,285 --> 00:05:47,365 It also is sort of more indicative of the kinds 117 00:05:47,365 --> 00:05:49,725 of uses we're looking at in that area 118 00:05:49,865 --> 00:05:52,205 as being pretty intensive commercial land uses. 119 00:05:54,045 --> 00:05:55,985 So getting into some 120 00:05:55,985 --> 00:05:58,325 of the recommended use changes again from your memo, 121 00:05:58,695 --> 00:06:00,485 these aren't substantial changes at all. 122 00:06:00,535 --> 00:06:02,205 We're following through on that table. 123 00:06:02,265 --> 00:06:05,205 We looked at together in May that had the various green 124 00:06:05,225 --> 00:06:06,685 and red uses. 125 00:06:06,685 --> 00:06:08,045 We were crossing some things out. 126 00:06:08,145 --> 00:06:10,685 So some of those recommended commercial use change changes 127 00:06:10,715 --> 00:06:11,725 that are noted in that table. 128 00:06:12,605 --> 00:06:15,365 Adding some conditions to the commercial center use. 129 00:06:15,425 --> 00:06:17,365 So should you have a new use that comes in 130 00:06:17,365 --> 00:06:18,805 that's a large kind 131 00:06:18,805 --> 00:06:21,405 of commercial center adding some conditions to that approval 132 00:06:21,465 --> 00:06:24,885 for things like parking, storm water management traffic, 133 00:06:24,905 --> 00:06:27,485 things that are sort of unique to that large scale use 134 00:06:27,485 --> 00:06:29,245 that are gonna be different from a typical just 135 00:06:29,385 --> 00:06:30,605 single commercial use. 136 00:06:32,175 --> 00:06:34,845 We're we are differentiating between drive through 137 00:06:34,865 --> 00:06:36,685 or drive-ins versus pickup windows. 138 00:06:37,215 --> 00:06:38,765 There are two different uses for that. 139 00:06:38,785 --> 00:06:41,525 That's a new use that doesn't exist in your code today. 140 00:06:42,775 --> 00:06:45,965 We're clarifying a couple of uses related to craft food 141 00:06:45,965 --> 00:06:48,565 and beverage productions, micro breweries, wine tasting. 142 00:06:48,705 --> 00:06:53,445 The current ordinance has uses for micro brewery, brew pub 143 00:06:53,665 --> 00:06:55,605 and craft beverage production 144 00:06:55,605 --> 00:06:58,245 and they're all permitted in the same zoning districts. 145 00:06:58,825 --> 00:07:00,205 So we've just separated those out. 146 00:07:00,225 --> 00:07:01,845 So it's clear that craft beverage 147 00:07:01,845 --> 00:07:03,245 production is an industrial use. 148 00:07:03,275 --> 00:07:05,005 It's located in the industrial districts. 149 00:07:05,505 --> 00:07:08,485 And then those uses like wine taste tasting room 150 00:07:09,505 --> 00:07:13,085 or brew pub are permitted in the commercial districts 151 00:07:13,165 --> 00:07:14,965 'cause it's it they also operate as sort 152 00:07:14,965 --> 00:07:16,165 of a restaurant or tavr. 153 00:07:18,425 --> 00:07:19,765 Lastly, there are new uses 154 00:07:19,765 --> 00:07:21,685 for neighborhood retail establishments 155 00:07:21,705 --> 00:07:23,605 and large retail establishments. 156 00:07:23,665 --> 00:07:26,405 So we'll talk about exactly how to define that 157 00:07:26,405 --> 00:07:28,205 as we get into standards next time. 158 00:07:28,745 --> 00:07:31,165 But typically that definition is sort 159 00:07:31,165 --> 00:07:32,645 of neighborhood retail establishments. 160 00:07:32,645 --> 00:07:35,285 Think of your Hardings market down on Stadium Drive 161 00:07:35,425 --> 00:07:36,885 as being sort of the high end 162 00:07:37,305 --> 00:07:38,405 of a neighborhood retail 163 00:07:38,405 --> 00:07:39,885 establishment in terms of how big it is. 164 00:07:40,465 --> 00:07:43,245 So things that are that size are smaller are typically your 165 00:07:43,245 --> 00:07:44,605 neighborhood retail establishment. 166 00:07:44,605 --> 00:07:47,765 Those large retail establishments think big box stores, men, 167 00:07:47,765 --> 00:07:50,445 Menards, Myers, those kinds of things that have lots 168 00:07:50,445 --> 00:07:52,125 of parking, lots of traffic. 169 00:07:52,175 --> 00:07:54,205 We're gonna treat those differently than those smaller 170 00:07:54,205 --> 00:07:56,205 format retail uses. 171 00:07:58,645 --> 00:08:00,905 So again, as we think about that commercial use table, 172 00:08:00,915 --> 00:08:03,545 we're going from this that we looked at together back in May 173 00:08:03,755 --> 00:08:07,145 where we identified a series of changes we were recommending 174 00:08:07,645 --> 00:08:09,865 and now in your packet is a cleaned up table 175 00:08:09,895 --> 00:08:10,945 that looks like this 176 00:08:12,045 --> 00:08:14,305 or just clearly identify what are those uses, 177 00:08:14,305 --> 00:08:15,305 where are they permitted? 178 00:08:15,885 --> 00:08:20,465 As we work through this, think about this as being 95% done 179 00:08:21,085 --> 00:08:22,145 as we work through all 180 00:08:22,165 --> 00:08:23,865 of the different sections in your code 181 00:08:23,885 --> 00:08:26,105 and we work through definitions of uses 182 00:08:26,125 --> 00:08:27,905 and standards that are assigned to them. 183 00:08:28,655 --> 00:08:30,305 Some of these we may come back 184 00:08:30,305 --> 00:08:31,745 and tweak this, we'll let you know 185 00:08:31,765 --> 00:08:32,945 and we'll show that change. 186 00:08:33,525 --> 00:08:36,185 But this puts us kind of 95% of the way there 187 00:08:36,205 --> 00:08:37,865 and gives us a clear understanding of 188 00:08:37,865 --> 00:08:41,145 what we're permitting in which district as we move forward. 189 00:08:42,005 --> 00:08:45,605 So I'll pause there just as it relates to 190 00:08:45,605 --> 00:08:46,885 that commercial use table 191 00:08:47,025 --> 00:08:49,565 and sort of the, the revisions we've made in having 192 00:08:49,565 --> 00:08:50,685 that draft in front of you. 193 00:08:50,865 --> 00:08:54,165 Any questions, comments, concerns that came up for you all 194 00:08:54,165 --> 00:08:55,805 as you were looking through that? 195 00:08:59,615 --> 00:09:00,675 Are you talking about the whole, 196 00:09:00,895 --> 00:09:02,835 the entire table or just this page? 197 00:09:03,135 --> 00:09:04,995 The entire table. Sorry, this was just an example. 198 00:09:06,435 --> 00:09:09,475 I had a question about, this would be on packet page 11, 199 00:09:10,005 --> 00:09:14,755 under production and storage it listed compounding drugs, 200 00:09:15,635 --> 00:09:18,115 cosmetics, pottery, plastics and food products. 201 00:09:19,225 --> 00:09:21,955 What, what, how is pottery defined? 202 00:09:22,095 --> 00:09:24,275 I'm thinking that you could have someone 203 00:09:24,375 --> 00:09:26,715 who sets up a little shop to, for people to come 204 00:09:26,715 --> 00:09:28,915 and do like paint your own pottery, 205 00:09:29,665 --> 00:09:32,425 which wouldn't be a industrial use. 206 00:09:33,095 --> 00:09:34,785 Sure. More of a commercial use. 207 00:09:36,715 --> 00:09:39,005 Yeah. So let me just check and that 208 00:09:39,505 --> 00:09:41,605 and we can clarify as we get into definitions. 209 00:09:41,665 --> 00:09:44,085 As I mentioned we'll sort of confirm those. 210 00:09:44,405 --> 00:09:48,945 I think we can clear, so one of the tricks there 211 00:09:48,945 --> 00:09:50,865 as we define what is like a small or 212 00:09:50,865 --> 00:09:53,105 or a neighborhood retail establishment is 213 00:09:53,525 --> 00:09:55,985 how much like small scale manufacturing 214 00:09:56,125 --> 00:09:59,065 or things can happen in those sites in that definition. 215 00:09:59,255 --> 00:10:02,145 Typically there's something there that allows for sale or 216 00:10:02,165 --> 00:10:03,705 or small production of things 217 00:10:03,705 --> 00:10:05,145 that are then sold on that site. 218 00:10:05,885 --> 00:10:08,065 So I agree with you that pottery is not typically an 219 00:10:08,065 --> 00:10:10,985 industrial use and we can definitely strike that 220 00:10:10,985 --> 00:10:12,545 and be sure that those small kind of 221 00:10:13,235 --> 00:10:15,985 production uses would be permitted in the neighborhood mixed 222 00:10:16,005 --> 00:10:17,225 use in other districts. 223 00:10:20,135 --> 00:10:22,905 Okay. I also had a question then on the next page, 224 00:10:22,965 --> 00:10:27,425 on page 12 under public 225 00:10:29,125 --> 00:10:31,865 it lists fire stations separately 226 00:10:31,865 --> 00:10:35,765 but then the the one two down from 227 00:10:35,765 --> 00:10:37,965 that says publicly owned and operated buildings 228 00:10:37,965 --> 00:10:41,645 and uses would fire station fall under that? 229 00:10:42,145 --> 00:10:44,725 We wanted to really clearly identify fire station 230 00:10:44,745 --> 00:10:47,005 and treat it differently because the impacts there are a 231 00:10:47,005 --> 00:10:50,965 little different right in in terms of the trucks coming in 232 00:10:50,965 --> 00:10:51,965 and out and potential noise. 233 00:10:52,025 --> 00:10:57,005 So that was separated out purposely. Okay, good question. 234 00:10:57,525 --> 00:11:02,345 I think I just have one more where it talks about 235 00:11:03,125 --> 00:11:05,865 events and it talked about your notes talked 236 00:11:05,865 --> 00:11:07,185 about food truck. 237 00:11:08,525 --> 00:11:12,835 Yes, I don am. 238 00:11:12,835 --> 00:11:13,995 I'm not sure how I would would write that 239 00:11:14,015 --> 00:11:15,275 but like sometimes you know like 240 00:11:16,095 --> 00:11:19,825 the food trucks will like be at somebody's business 241 00:11:19,885 --> 00:11:21,825 and I know in the past we've even had some 242 00:11:22,745 --> 00:11:24,265 requests to like be in the park. 243 00:11:25,245 --> 00:11:27,425 So when it comes to those, are we going to define 244 00:11:28,435 --> 00:11:31,585 where these things can be? 245 00:11:32,135 --> 00:11:33,665 Yeah, so that is part of the, the 246 00:11:33,665 --> 00:11:35,785 what we'll be going over at the next meeting is some 247 00:11:35,785 --> 00:11:37,825 of the standards and requirements that apply, 248 00:11:38,005 --> 00:11:40,785 we call 'em conditions today in your code that apply 249 00:11:40,785 --> 00:11:42,865 to these different uses so that food truck use 250 00:11:42,865 --> 00:11:44,505 and those event conditions are, 251 00:11:44,505 --> 00:11:46,305 we will go over together next time. Okay. 252 00:11:46,305 --> 00:11:47,305 Alright. Thank you. 253 00:11:48,635 --> 00:11:50,265 Great questions. I appreciate you going 254 00:11:50,265 --> 00:11:51,265 through the table in detail. 255 00:11:51,825 --> 00:11:54,285 Anything else that folks noted as looking through that? 256 00:12:00,395 --> 00:12:03,965 Okay, the one thing in that table that we wanted to get, 257 00:12:04,025 --> 00:12:06,525 wanted to call out specifically to get your feedback on 258 00:12:06,525 --> 00:12:08,965 and it was noted in your memo was we wanted 259 00:12:08,965 --> 00:12:10,085 to talk about whether 260 00:12:10,085 --> 00:12:13,485 or not we should remove single family homes from the mixed 261 00:12:13,545 --> 00:12:15,645 use district EZ we're, 262 00:12:15,645 --> 00:12:17,445 and we have edits to the mixed use district 263 00:12:17,445 --> 00:12:18,605 that are in your packet as well. 264 00:12:18,655 --> 00:12:21,605 We'll talk through the question here is like we have, 265 00:12:21,665 --> 00:12:23,325 as we talked about last time, we have lots 266 00:12:23,325 --> 00:12:24,685 of areas in the Township where we allow 267 00:12:24,685 --> 00:12:25,685 for single family homes 268 00:12:26,195 --> 00:12:28,645 that mixed use district isn't a district 269 00:12:28,645 --> 00:12:31,805 that exists on the zoning map without somebody applying 270 00:12:31,905 --> 00:12:34,045 to change their property to that district. 271 00:12:34,785 --> 00:12:37,805 And the intent there is to sort of follow through on some 272 00:12:37,805 --> 00:12:41,965 of the comprehensive plan special study areas as well 273 00:12:41,965 --> 00:12:43,725 as sort of those nodes in this Township 274 00:12:43,725 --> 00:12:44,765 with the most activity. 275 00:12:45,385 --> 00:12:47,285 And so we have lots of areas in the Township 276 00:12:47,285 --> 00:12:48,645 with single family development, 277 00:12:48,825 --> 00:12:52,085 but if we want to try to have a development where we 278 00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:54,125 have enough residential density 279 00:12:54,175 --> 00:12:56,805 where we aren't creating a lot of extra trips, which is one 280 00:12:56,805 --> 00:12:59,005 of the goals of that mixed use district, it's hard to do 281 00:12:59,005 --> 00:13:01,205 that with single family 'cause it's spread out. 282 00:13:02,265 --> 00:13:05,885 So wanted to get your feedback on whether you're supportive 283 00:13:05,885 --> 00:13:08,605 of removing single family from that mixed use district 284 00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:11,205 or if we should keep it in that district. 285 00:13:11,205 --> 00:13:12,485 What your thoughts were on that. 286 00:13:17,875 --> 00:13:21,275 Could you talk a little bit more about that? 287 00:13:21,855 --> 00:13:24,475 It would have to be a special study 288 00:13:24,535 --> 00:13:26,755 or it's not a specific area at this time. 289 00:13:27,385 --> 00:13:30,035 Yeah, so those areas that, so today in your code, 290 00:13:30,455 --> 00:13:31,995 the mixed use district has to apply 291 00:13:31,995 --> 00:13:34,515 to a sub area from the old master plan. 292 00:13:35,335 --> 00:13:37,075 The, so sub areas no longer exist 293 00:13:37,075 --> 00:13:39,155 because you've adopted a new master plan. 294 00:13:39,775 --> 00:13:41,995 So in the current comprehensive plan there are a couple 295 00:13:42,015 --> 00:13:44,275 of sub of special study areas 296 00:13:44,275 --> 00:13:46,395 that were specifically identified with boundaries 297 00:13:46,395 --> 00:13:48,395 where the plan dug into more detail on 298 00:13:48,395 --> 00:13:49,555 how development could occur. 299 00:13:50,175 --> 00:13:53,035 And then there were also regional corridors 300 00:13:53,175 --> 00:13:56,915 and nodes that were identified in that plan as being sort 301 00:13:56,915 --> 00:13:59,155 of focuses for higher density development. 302 00:13:59,975 --> 00:14:02,875 So those were the places that we identified in your draft A 303 00:14:02,935 --> 00:14:05,395 as places where a rezo 304 00:14:05,395 --> 00:14:08,275 to this mis mixed use district which provides more 305 00:14:08,275 --> 00:14:10,795 flexibility for development would be appropriate. 306 00:14:15,805 --> 00:14:18,425 So I, I guess just to tie back, 307 00:14:18,495 --> 00:14:20,385 last time we were together we looked at these maps. 308 00:14:20,385 --> 00:14:22,265 This is the map of everywhere that's not sort of 309 00:14:22,265 --> 00:14:25,385 that light gray color on this map permits single family 310 00:14:25,385 --> 00:14:27,185 residential development today, right? 311 00:14:27,765 --> 00:14:30,025 So in those mixed use districts, we still, many 312 00:14:30,025 --> 00:14:31,465 of them are adjacent to or 313 00:14:31,485 --> 00:14:33,905 or close to one of these single family districts. 314 00:14:34,285 --> 00:14:36,545 We could maintain that district as it exists. 315 00:14:37,855 --> 00:14:39,505 It's just that that mixed use district, 316 00:14:39,505 --> 00:14:41,545 the idea there is we're providing more flexibility 317 00:14:41,545 --> 00:14:43,785 for things we couldn't accomplish under a typical 318 00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:44,985 zoning district. 319 00:14:45,685 --> 00:14:48,505 And we have lots of ways to accomplish single family today. 320 00:14:49,965 --> 00:14:52,525 So the thought was to really sort of hone in on what 321 00:14:52,525 --> 00:14:55,125 that mixed use district is for, which is those sort 322 00:14:55,125 --> 00:14:56,965 of big redevelopment projects, right? 323 00:14:56,965 --> 00:14:59,765 That the space behind the mall, those things that are tricky 324 00:14:59,785 --> 00:15:02,645 to redevelop versus just sort of using that district 325 00:15:02,665 --> 00:15:06,245 as a way to create a typical single family home subdivision. 326 00:15:07,775 --> 00:15:10,125 Seems to me the last time I remember you 327 00:15:10,125 --> 00:15:12,005 and I had a discussion on 328 00:15:14,285 --> 00:15:18,135 what a mixed use district was going 329 00:15:18,135 --> 00:15:21,815 to look like in a predominantly single family 330 00:15:22,245 --> 00:15:23,455 housing development. 331 00:15:23,555 --> 00:15:25,215 And I had used Westport 332 00:15:25,215 --> 00:15:28,735 because that was the, the development I'm most familiar with 333 00:15:29,355 --> 00:15:30,895 and I really couldn't see that. 334 00:15:32,235 --> 00:15:34,815 And the answer I thought I was getting from you was, 335 00:15:35,165 --> 00:15:37,815 well it's not something that's going to happen overnight 336 00:15:37,815 --> 00:15:39,135 or within the next couple of months. 337 00:15:39,135 --> 00:15:42,655 You're talking about 10, 20 years down the road as people 338 00:15:44,085 --> 00:15:47,015 abandoned their homes in the single family area, 339 00:15:47,235 --> 00:15:48,935 rip them down, do something different. 340 00:15:49,165 --> 00:15:51,975 It's kind of an incremental transition. Okay. 341 00:15:52,835 --> 00:15:56,635 And in light of that, man, I just don't see, 342 00:15:56,775 --> 00:15:59,115 and I I might be wrong, I'm a bit of a Luddite, 343 00:15:59,635 --> 00:16:02,675 I I just don't see transition 344 00:16:03,985 --> 00:16:05,515 occurring very rapidly. 345 00:16:06,635 --> 00:16:10,555 I I I think we're talking about 30, 40 years down the road. 346 00:16:11,105 --> 00:16:15,795 Yeah. And with that, I don't see any reason why 347 00:16:16,535 --> 00:16:18,635 we should try and integrate the the 348 00:16:19,655 --> 00:16:24,475 single family into the multi use district. 349 00:16:24,615 --> 00:16:26,275 It it is a separate entity. 350 00:16:26,345 --> 00:16:29,435 It's, yeah, it's been here for years. Am I wrong? Am I 351 00:16:30,105 --> 00:16:31,835 Well I don't think you're wrong. 352 00:16:32,015 --> 00:16:34,795 And I guess I would add a clarifying point to this. 353 00:16:34,855 --> 00:16:37,155 So the, the mixed use district in your zoning 354 00:16:37,155 --> 00:16:38,235 ordinance is a little unique. 355 00:16:38,495 --> 00:16:40,595 You all are familiar with the planned unit development 356 00:16:40,815 --> 00:16:44,155 and the mixed use district in your zoning ordinance kind 357 00:16:44,155 --> 00:16:46,835 of operates like a special kind of planned unit development. 358 00:16:47,455 --> 00:16:49,995 So you have to come to you all with a special plan, you have 359 00:16:49,995 --> 00:16:52,035 to go through a process in order to activate 360 00:16:52,035 --> 00:16:53,875 that mixed use district as you are all aware. 361 00:16:53,895 --> 00:16:56,515 And so it's part of versus that sort 362 00:16:56,515 --> 00:16:58,435 of gradual transition we talked about last time, 363 00:16:58,435 --> 00:17:00,835 if somebody's gonna trigger that mixed use district, 364 00:17:01,095 --> 00:17:04,995 it is a, like we're developing something significant 365 00:17:05,135 --> 00:17:06,795 to close to a finished state. 366 00:17:06,945 --> 00:17:08,875 It's not that gradual incremental development 367 00:17:08,875 --> 00:17:11,675 that would happen if we have sort of neighborhoods 368 00:17:11,675 --> 00:17:14,195 that are more mixed use and they change gradually over time. 369 00:17:14,265 --> 00:17:16,875 This is, I have a five acre or larger parcel 370 00:17:17,375 --> 00:17:20,075 and I'm doing a major development project on 371 00:17:20,075 --> 00:17:21,475 it. Does that make sense? 372 00:17:22,325 --> 00:17:24,295 Yeah, I mean I understand what you're saying. 373 00:17:26,295 --> 00:17:29,255 I think to place a little historical context here, 374 00:17:30,155 --> 00:17:33,815 one item is that the whole thrust 375 00:17:33,875 --> 00:17:35,255 of the mixed use district was 376 00:17:35,255 --> 00:17:37,775 to add more residential housing. 377 00:17:39,315 --> 00:17:40,815 The the second thing and, 378 00:17:40,815 --> 00:17:43,455 and I'll just speak on behalf of the developers 379 00:17:43,525 --> 00:17:46,495 that were in the room when we were doing the mixed use, 380 00:17:47,005 --> 00:17:48,295 they want flexibility. 381 00:17:48,645 --> 00:17:52,205 Yeah. And so to take the single family homes out of 382 00:17:52,205 --> 00:17:54,165 that kind of reduces flexibility, 383 00:17:54,695 --> 00:17:57,685 especially if they're a budding, an area 384 00:17:57,685 --> 00:18:00,565 where there are single family homes makes a better 385 00:18:00,695 --> 00:18:03,365 transition for that development. 386 00:18:03,865 --> 00:18:06,805 So those are just a couple of items that I see in that 387 00:18:10,765 --> 00:18:11,865 I'm, I'm happy to leave it. 388 00:18:12,145 --> 00:18:15,025 I would say the, the only the downside 389 00:18:15,025 --> 00:18:17,265 of leaving it right is that if you have relatively, 390 00:18:17,845 --> 00:18:18,905 you have limited land 391 00:18:18,905 --> 00:18:21,425 and space where that mixed use district can work. 392 00:18:22,245 --> 00:18:25,225 So if it becomes single family homes, you're just using up 393 00:18:25,225 --> 00:18:26,865 that space in a way that that is 394 00:18:28,825 --> 00:18:30,315 less efficient from a 395 00:18:30,375 --> 00:18:32,435 how many housing units can we fit in this space 396 00:18:32,435 --> 00:18:34,075 or how dense is the commercial development? 397 00:18:34,075 --> 00:18:36,515 That's okay. It's just something that 398 00:18:36,515 --> 00:18:37,555 as we were reviewing it 399 00:18:37,555 --> 00:18:39,275 and thinking about those, those areas 400 00:18:39,275 --> 00:18:41,315 that were identified in the comprehensive plan, 401 00:18:41,735 --> 00:18:42,875 it felt like keeping it in 402 00:18:42,875 --> 00:18:44,475 that single family designation didn't make sense. 403 00:18:44,695 --> 00:18:46,275 It likely is not an issue. 404 00:18:46,555 --> 00:18:48,875 I don't imagine somebody coming to you with a mixed use 405 00:18:49,905 --> 00:18:51,075 development proposal 406 00:18:51,095 --> 00:18:53,275 and proposing a lot of single family just 407 00:18:53,275 --> 00:18:55,875 because the areas that that's identified for. 408 00:18:55,965 --> 00:18:57,875 Maybe it's a transition area to your point, 409 00:18:58,815 --> 00:19:01,075 but it's unlikely to be predominantly single family 410 00:19:01,315 --> 00:19:03,195 'cause other they could do that with current zoning 411 00:19:03,215 --> 00:19:05,555 or under a more simple rezoning request 412 00:19:06,315 --> 00:19:07,855 or how the areas are zoned today. 413 00:19:09,695 --> 00:19:11,945 Well if I could just speak to that as well and, 414 00:19:12,005 --> 00:19:14,345 and it goes back to the heart of mixed use. 415 00:19:15,315 --> 00:19:16,965 I've brought this up before 416 00:19:17,425 --> 00:19:19,365 and I hope I don't get yelled at. 417 00:19:20,705 --> 00:19:25,485 The, the mixed use D district in my mind is a district 418 00:19:25,485 --> 00:19:30,185 that's integrated for people and business. 419 00:19:31,165 --> 00:19:35,785 And so we, we could leave commercial at the street 420 00:19:36,085 --> 00:19:39,185 and residential at the back and have two different districts 421 00:19:39,685 --> 00:19:42,105 and that would be the similar to 422 00:19:42,215 --> 00:19:44,865 what I'm seeing mixed use being thought of. 423 00:19:45,725 --> 00:19:50,305 So I don't know how we can get to the, the concept 424 00:19:50,645 --> 00:19:54,665 of integration walkability a a home 425 00:19:54,765 --> 00:19:56,105 for people to enjoy. 426 00:19:56,685 --> 00:19:59,465 That's that's not just strip mall 427 00:20:00,125 --> 00:20:02,865 and housing. Yeah. Do you follow 428 00:20:03,465 --> 00:20:04,465 I I do completely. 429 00:20:04,605 --> 00:20:06,265 And I think the, the trick on this, 430 00:20:06,285 --> 00:20:08,425 and I think we can definitely come back to 431 00:20:08,525 --> 00:20:10,425 how we're thinking about the mixed use district 432 00:20:10,955 --> 00:20:13,945 after we get through all of the other sort of adjustments 433 00:20:13,945 --> 00:20:15,745 to zoning districts in terms of uses 434 00:20:15,745 --> 00:20:16,985 and dimensions and standards. 435 00:20:17,665 --> 00:20:20,945 'cause part of this effort I think is to make that idea 436 00:20:21,055 --> 00:20:22,825 that we can have more of a neighborhood 437 00:20:22,825 --> 00:20:25,025 and a place versus strip mall and house. 438 00:20:25,965 --> 00:20:27,225 It applies to a lot 439 00:20:27,225 --> 00:20:29,665 of the work we're doing on the neighborhood mixed use 440 00:20:29,985 --> 00:20:32,625 district on, we talked about more flexibility on the 441 00:20:32,625 --> 00:20:34,025 neighborhood residential district. 442 00:20:34,565 --> 00:20:36,145 So I think that theme kind 443 00:20:36,145 --> 00:20:37,465 of underlies all the work we're doing. 444 00:20:37,925 --> 00:20:40,665 And so I think once we get through that 445 00:20:40,665 --> 00:20:43,345 and get done, we can come back to this mixed use district 446 00:20:43,345 --> 00:20:46,645 and be sure that we're getting to what we need to get to. 447 00:20:47,685 --> 00:20:50,005 Because fundamentally what it does is it creates more, 448 00:20:50,105 --> 00:20:51,205 it allows somebody to, 449 00:20:51,305 --> 00:20:54,285 to deviate from the regular zoning district standards. 450 00:20:55,025 --> 00:20:57,285 And so if we're creating more flexibility in those 451 00:20:57,445 --> 00:20:59,965 standards, the need to deviate isn't as great as it was. 452 00:21:01,525 --> 00:21:03,015 Does that make sense? It does 453 00:21:03,015 --> 00:21:06,815 Make sense and I, I appreciate your desire to put that 454 00:21:06,835 --> 00:21:09,895 as a note and to keep us moving towards, 455 00:21:10,355 --> 00:21:13,215 So we will add, we will keep the mixed use district in our 456 00:21:13,215 --> 00:21:15,215 parking lot as we move forward after night 457 00:21:15,215 --> 00:21:17,295 and we'll go through edits to that together as well. 458 00:21:17,545 --> 00:21:18,695 Great. So I think 459 00:21:18,695 --> 00:21:21,135 for now we'll keep single family in based on this discussion 460 00:21:21,135 --> 00:21:23,815 and, and depending on how we go we can, we can revisit that. 461 00:21:25,195 --> 00:21:29,495 Any other questions about the commercial use table 462 00:21:30,075 --> 00:21:32,095 or standard or the commercial use table 463 00:21:32,115 --> 00:21:33,895 or any of that that we had in your packet? 464 00:21:37,265 --> 00:21:39,715 Okay, we'll get into the schedule of regulations now. 465 00:21:39,855 --> 00:21:42,355 So on your screen is the ugly version 466 00:21:42,355 --> 00:21:44,275 of the SC schedule of regulations. 467 00:21:44,305 --> 00:21:46,475 This shows all the proposed changes. 468 00:21:46,735 --> 00:21:47,915 So all the red lines 469 00:21:47,935 --> 00:21:51,155 and crossouts, this looks like way more 470 00:21:51,155 --> 00:21:52,355 change than it actually is. 471 00:21:53,495 --> 00:21:55,915 The primary reason for that is, is we've gone through 472 00:21:55,915 --> 00:21:57,915 and we've eliminated all of the carve outs 473 00:21:57,915 --> 00:22:01,155 for commercial districts without access to water or sewer 474 00:22:01,545 --> 00:22:05,115 because with like one very small exception, all 475 00:22:05,115 --> 00:22:06,915 of your commercial industrial districts have 476 00:22:06,915 --> 00:22:08,155 access to water and sewer. 477 00:22:08,615 --> 00:22:10,995 So there's no need to have these different carve outs for 478 00:22:10,995 --> 00:22:12,595 what, for commercial uses 479 00:22:12,595 --> 00:22:14,315 that don't have access to water and sewer. 480 00:22:14,585 --> 00:22:16,475 They just all should have that access at this point. 481 00:22:16,475 --> 00:22:18,235 And that's appropriate for commercial uses 482 00:22:18,235 --> 00:22:19,515 because it's hard 483 00:22:19,515 --> 00:22:22,235 to have a commercial use on a septic system if we're gonna 484 00:22:22,235 --> 00:22:23,315 have that level of activity. 485 00:22:24,975 --> 00:22:26,155 The big reason for moving 486 00:22:26,155 --> 00:22:28,395 to the schedule regulations is we're trying 487 00:22:28,395 --> 00:22:31,475 to go from this kind of information in your ordinance today. 488 00:22:32,095 --> 00:22:34,395 So these are the current, this is the current kind 489 00:22:34,395 --> 00:22:36,035 of schedule of regulations for the, 490 00:22:36,775 --> 00:22:39,075 the village commercial district today. 491 00:22:40,465 --> 00:22:43,315 This is the way that we're showing that same schedule 492 00:22:43,315 --> 00:22:44,875 of regulations in the new proposed 493 00:22:45,115 --> 00:22:46,195 proposed neighborhood mixed use. 494 00:22:47,295 --> 00:22:50,635 So the information here is essentially the same, right? 495 00:22:50,635 --> 00:22:52,875 If you track this through, there's still in 496 00:22:52,875 --> 00:22:56,755 that table there 65 feet of lot frontage or 230 497 00:22:57,655 --> 00:22:59,195 and you see 65 feet 498 00:22:59,195 --> 00:23:00,635 or two 30 if conflicting 499 00:23:00,635 --> 00:23:02,835 with the transportation mobility ordinance shown there. 500 00:23:03,225 --> 00:23:05,315 It's just a much simpler way to look at all 501 00:23:05,315 --> 00:23:06,315 of those same standards 502 00:23:06,315 --> 00:23:07,995 and then compare them across all 503 00:23:07,995 --> 00:23:09,395 of your different zoning districts. 504 00:23:10,175 --> 00:23:13,195 So as Leanna and Jodi 505 00:23:13,195 --> 00:23:16,475 and Colton can can tell you there are lots of standards 506 00:23:16,475 --> 00:23:17,955 that relate to or there are lots 507 00:23:17,955 --> 00:23:21,115 of places in your zoning ordinance today where these kinds 508 00:23:21,115 --> 00:23:23,075 of standards around dimensions are sort of hidden. 509 00:23:23,775 --> 00:23:25,995 And so what we're trying to do is get all those into one 510 00:23:25,995 --> 00:23:28,515 place and be sure that we're consistent across zoning 511 00:23:28,835 --> 00:23:30,915 districts so we don't get surprised when we dig into one 512 00:23:30,915 --> 00:23:32,115 particular use versus another. 513 00:23:34,665 --> 00:23:36,205 The one other change that that 514 00:23:37,215 --> 00:23:42,165 table shows is a consistent approach to lot coverage today. 515 00:23:42,165 --> 00:23:43,645 There isn't a consistent standard 516 00:23:43,705 --> 00:23:45,205 for ladder building coverage in 517 00:23:45,205 --> 00:23:46,325 all of your zoning districts. 518 00:23:46,325 --> 00:23:47,565 Some have them, some don't. 519 00:23:47,955 --> 00:23:49,645 Some uses even have a standard 520 00:23:49,665 --> 00:23:51,245 for what's called ground coverage. 521 00:23:51,245 --> 00:23:53,485 Meaning how much of the ground is covered 522 00:23:53,545 --> 00:23:55,845 by impervious surface building parking lot, 523 00:23:56,065 --> 00:23:57,365 et cetera, versus just building. 524 00:23:58,025 --> 00:23:59,605 So in that lot coverage standard 525 00:23:59,605 --> 00:24:02,205 that we're looking at now we're only talking about areas 526 00:24:02,275 --> 00:24:03,525 covered by a building. 527 00:24:04,145 --> 00:24:06,445 So this is Menards here in town. 528 00:24:06,585 --> 00:24:08,725 So the, or in the Township, 529 00:24:09,025 --> 00:24:11,725 the gray outline here is all the area on Menards 530 00:24:11,725 --> 00:24:14,205 that would be counted within lot coverage 531 00:24:14,205 --> 00:24:16,165 or building coverage as we have it create 532 00:24:16,265 --> 00:24:17,645 as it exists in that table today. 533 00:24:18,925 --> 00:24:20,165 This is an important standard 534 00:24:20,165 --> 00:24:22,445 because it, it allows you to be sure how much 535 00:24:22,445 --> 00:24:24,725 of the lot's gonna be building and how much isn't. 536 00:24:25,225 --> 00:24:26,285 But then you can also on, 537 00:24:26,285 --> 00:24:29,085 on intense commercial uses like this, add some standards 538 00:24:29,085 --> 00:24:31,645 for additional green space that goes 539 00:24:31,665 --> 00:24:34,445 beyond just the building versus a a wholesale 540 00:24:36,165 --> 00:24:37,205 prohibition of impervious surface. 541 00:24:37,445 --> 00:24:39,285 'cause there are lots of ways to manage impervious 542 00:24:39,285 --> 00:24:40,445 surface on the site. 543 00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:46,385 So with that clean version of the commercial schedule 544 00:24:46,385 --> 00:24:48,985 of regulations, again with that word frontage crossed out, 545 00:24:49,035 --> 00:24:50,065 sorry it's on here. 546 00:24:51,375 --> 00:24:53,305 Some of the big changes there, I mentioned removal 547 00:24:53,305 --> 00:24:55,065 of the options for development without 548 00:24:55,125 --> 00:24:56,505 access to water and sewer. 549 00:24:56,805 --> 00:24:58,505 So fundamentally someone couldn't come in 550 00:24:58,505 --> 00:25:00,345 and ask for a rezoning to one of these uses 551 00:25:00,345 --> 00:25:02,865 that they didn't have access to water or sewer. 552 00:25:02,865 --> 00:25:07,065 That would be inconsistent with the the ordinance we've, 553 00:25:07,265 --> 00:25:08,385 I mentioned lot coverage. 554 00:25:08,385 --> 00:25:11,065 There's also now a clear maximum building height 555 00:25:11,325 --> 00:25:14,065 for every zoning district today in your code. 556 00:25:14,065 --> 00:25:15,905 There is not a clear maximum building height 557 00:25:15,965 --> 00:25:17,065 for every zoning district. 558 00:25:18,135 --> 00:25:20,665 They're sort of located in different places and it, 559 00:25:20,665 --> 00:25:21,865 and it's not clear what it is. 560 00:25:21,865 --> 00:25:25,105 So there is that clear height along with a number of stories 561 00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:26,745 for everything outside of industrial 562 00:25:26,745 --> 00:25:30,065 because industrial buildings stories doesn't matter so much. 563 00:25:30,065 --> 00:25:31,585 We're just thinking about total height. 564 00:25:33,725 --> 00:25:35,445 We've replaced the village commercial district 565 00:25:35,445 --> 00:25:37,285 with the neighborhood mixed use district, 566 00:25:37,815 --> 00:25:39,205 which we've talked about in the past. 567 00:25:40,545 --> 00:25:44,525 We also removed the building height related setbacks in the 568 00:25:44,525 --> 00:25:47,525 industrial districts Today the industrial district includes 569 00:25:47,565 --> 00:25:50,605 a a setback that says if your building is so tall, 570 00:25:50,605 --> 00:25:52,685 your setback has to be equal to the height of the building. 571 00:25:53,225 --> 00:25:55,405 If you remember last time we talked about those additional 572 00:25:55,405 --> 00:25:57,525 landscape buffers that we were gonna require 573 00:25:57,665 --> 00:26:00,285 for industrial uses that were adjacent to other uses. 574 00:26:00,285 --> 00:26:01,285 Those were 50 feet. 575 00:26:01,905 --> 00:26:05,285 So we're already covering 50 feet for everything other than 576 00:26:05,285 --> 00:26:08,805 that i three district, which is the most intense district 577 00:26:08,805 --> 00:26:09,805 that can go up to 60. 578 00:26:10,305 --> 00:26:11,365 And most of those uses 579 00:26:11,365 --> 00:26:13,725 that are gonna go over 60 are gonna require special land use 580 00:26:13,725 --> 00:26:16,725 and you can require a different additional setbacks 581 00:26:16,725 --> 00:26:18,085 or deal with those otherwise. 582 00:26:19,585 --> 00:26:21,285 So again, trying to really simplify 583 00:26:21,285 --> 00:26:25,405 and clarify this table so that both developers 584 00:26:25,505 --> 00:26:28,485 but also staff planning, commissioners, residents understand 585 00:26:28,485 --> 00:26:29,805 what are the standards across all those 586 00:26:29,805 --> 00:26:31,045 different zoning districts. 587 00:26:34,005 --> 00:26:36,985 As you all looked through that, were there any questions or, 588 00:26:37,045 --> 00:26:38,545 or concerns that you had 589 00:26:38,545 --> 00:26:40,065 that you wanted to talk through tonight? 590 00:26:48,045 --> 00:26:50,635 Again, it doesn't represent a ton of change. 591 00:26:50,745 --> 00:26:52,955 It's a lot of just sort of getting everything in the same 592 00:26:52,955 --> 00:26:54,715 place and adding some consistency 593 00:26:55,415 --> 00:26:58,155 and as I mentioned, consider this 95% done. 594 00:26:58,185 --> 00:27:00,915 It's the same as the the use table as we work through 595 00:27:02,075 --> 00:27:03,555 standards for all those commercial uses. 596 00:27:03,555 --> 00:27:05,315 As we continue to work our way through the rest 597 00:27:05,315 --> 00:27:07,075 of the ordinance, we may come back to this 598 00:27:07,075 --> 00:27:09,075 and make minor modifications here and there, 599 00:27:09,935 --> 00:27:11,755 but again it gives us a place that we can sort 600 00:27:11,755 --> 00:27:13,755 of evaluate everything else in the code. 601 00:27:17,975 --> 00:27:20,905 Okay. Now we'll dig into I think the last 20 pages 602 00:27:21,085 --> 00:27:24,065 of your packet and, and that are the red line. 603 00:27:24,065 --> 00:27:27,305 Those are the red lines and changes to village commercial 604 00:27:27,965 --> 00:27:29,625 and then to the mixed use district. 605 00:27:30,485 --> 00:27:32,825 So from a high level, the, 606 00:27:32,925 --> 00:27:34,265 the changes from village commercial 607 00:27:34,325 --> 00:27:35,425 to neighborhood mixed use are 608 00:27:35,425 --> 00:27:36,545 all about simplification, right? 609 00:27:36,605 --> 00:27:39,865 So this is our stadium drive area today. 610 00:27:40,315 --> 00:27:41,705 There are two different articles 611 00:27:41,705 --> 00:27:43,305 that control development in that area. 612 00:27:43,495 --> 00:27:46,065 It's article I think 19, which is Village Commercial. 613 00:27:46,605 --> 00:27:47,985 And there's article 34, 614 00:27:47,985 --> 00:27:50,345 which is the form-based code overlay. 615 00:27:50,365 --> 00:27:53,425 And that article 34 is like 78 pages long. 616 00:27:54,305 --> 00:27:57,905 So like it, it it's, it's great zoning language, 617 00:27:57,975 --> 00:27:59,905 it's really nice job of controlling development 618 00:27:59,925 --> 00:28:01,145 but it's very complex. 619 00:28:02,045 --> 00:28:05,305 So what we're proposing is wiping away that article 34, 620 00:28:06,145 --> 00:28:07,665 taking some pieces of it 621 00:28:07,665 --> 00:28:10,385 and moving them into the the new neighborhood mixed use 622 00:28:10,665 --> 00:28:13,505 district and then taking other peaches pieces of it related 623 00:28:13,505 --> 00:28:16,385 to signs and parking and moving those into the signs 624 00:28:16,445 --> 00:28:19,265 and parking articles that they apply to lots of places, 625 00:28:19,605 --> 00:28:22,145 not just this one little section of the Township. 626 00:28:23,835 --> 00:28:26,665 Other significant changes is we're proposing a more flexible 627 00:28:26,665 --> 00:28:30,345 front building setback today, the maximum setbacks, 628 00:28:30,345 --> 00:28:31,545 this is the one area Township 629 00:28:31,545 --> 00:28:33,945 where we have maximum setbacks, not minimums. 630 00:28:34,485 --> 00:28:36,865 So in other words, the maximum distance a building could be 631 00:28:36,865 --> 00:28:38,905 set back from the right of ways is 15 feet. 632 00:28:39,275 --> 00:28:40,985 We're suggesting taking that to 40. 633 00:28:41,695 --> 00:28:44,825 What 40 feet does is it allows for one row of a parking 634 00:28:45,095 --> 00:28:46,705 with a access drive 635 00:28:46,885 --> 00:28:48,425 and landscaping in front of a building 636 00:28:48,845 --> 00:28:50,705 that's more consistent with the development 637 00:28:50,705 --> 00:28:52,185 that you have there and the kind 638 00:28:52,185 --> 00:28:54,665 of development you're likely to attract on a five lane, 639 00:28:54,665 --> 00:28:58,625 pretty busy road still gives some flexi, still sort 640 00:28:58,625 --> 00:28:59,825 of moves buildings closer 641 00:28:59,845 --> 00:29:01,625 to the street than many that you have now. 642 00:29:02,165 --> 00:29:05,305 And sort of strikes a balance between going, wanting to have 643 00:29:05,305 --> 00:29:06,785 that village center but understanding 644 00:29:06,785 --> 00:29:08,505 that you've got really large busy roads 645 00:29:08,505 --> 00:29:11,505 that aren't probably ever gonna feel like you're walking 646 00:29:11,505 --> 00:29:12,945 around a small village hamlet, 647 00:29:12,945 --> 00:29:15,505 unless those roads changed really drastically 648 00:29:16,525 --> 00:29:19,625 In, in light of the fact that we're, we're trying 649 00:29:19,925 --> 00:29:24,065 to in the same process define the amount 650 00:29:24,085 --> 00:29:26,745 of windows versus non windows. 651 00:29:27,015 --> 00:29:31,745 Yeah. Parking in the front seems to defeat whatever 652 00:29:31,745 --> 00:29:33,025 that is trying to accomplish. 653 00:29:33,115 --> 00:29:34,945 Which I'm not always clear on 654 00:29:35,045 --> 00:29:36,865 but can you help me 655 00:29:38,435 --> 00:29:40,545 match those two up? The parking in the front 656 00:29:40,725 --> 00:29:44,285 And the exposure of Windows building. 657 00:29:44,625 --> 00:29:47,285 So the exposure of Windows does a couple of things, right? 658 00:29:47,385 --> 00:29:50,045 One, it makes the building, it forces the building to relate 659 00:29:50,045 --> 00:29:52,085 to people that are coming into the building and using it. 660 00:29:52,085 --> 00:29:53,525 It also relates it to the street. 661 00:29:53,785 --> 00:29:57,085 So parking in the front is sort of 662 00:29:58,215 --> 00:29:59,775 a change away from that. 663 00:29:59,795 --> 00:30:02,415 And the parking in the front recognizes the reality sort 664 00:30:02,415 --> 00:30:05,935 of development in this area and how the area is laid out. 665 00:30:06,045 --> 00:30:08,015 It's a autocentric area 666 00:30:08,035 --> 00:30:10,495 and you all don't have any control over that roadway today. 667 00:30:11,435 --> 00:30:14,215 So sort of pushing it to be a smaller, 668 00:30:14,285 --> 00:30:16,535 more walkable village center is gonna be hard. 669 00:30:16,875 --> 00:30:19,575 So what we're suggesting is kind of striking a balance, 670 00:30:19,895 --> 00:30:22,535 allowing some vehicle access, still requiring buildings 671 00:30:22,595 --> 00:30:26,295 to present positively towards that parking lot or not. 672 00:30:26,295 --> 00:30:28,855 Again, that's a maximum. Somebody could locate their 673 00:30:28,975 --> 00:30:30,575 building against the street if they wanted to 674 00:30:30,575 --> 00:30:31,615 and felt like that was the 675 00:30:31,615 --> 00:30:32,655 way they wanted designed their building. 676 00:30:33,475 --> 00:30:35,055 But we're allowing for that option 677 00:30:35,055 --> 00:30:37,175 to have it be set further back. 678 00:30:38,705 --> 00:30:41,935 Okay, thank you. 679 00:30:43,775 --> 00:30:45,395 And so as part of that, in the current 680 00:30:46,645 --> 00:30:49,515 form-based code overlay, there are standards 681 00:30:49,515 --> 00:30:50,875 what we call building frontage. 682 00:30:51,285 --> 00:30:53,235 Again that word frontage is coming up tonight. 683 00:30:53,945 --> 00:30:55,515 This is the idea of how much 684 00:30:55,575 --> 00:30:58,355 of the total lot width is composed of a building. 685 00:30:59,015 --> 00:31:00,995 So this is the standard that exists today. 686 00:31:01,205 --> 00:31:02,915 We're proposing in simplifying that 687 00:31:02,915 --> 00:31:06,355 and this graphic is included in your packet that just says 688 00:31:06,355 --> 00:31:09,035 that build that we're requiring 60% building frontage. 689 00:31:09,035 --> 00:31:10,395 So the building has to make up the 690 00:31:10,595 --> 00:31:11,715 majority of the lot frontage. 691 00:31:12,055 --> 00:31:16,275 So again, we don't have big expanses of space in that 692 00:31:16,875 --> 00:31:19,635 neighborhood mixed use district that don't have buildings so 693 00:31:19,635 --> 00:31:20,715 that it is more walkable. 694 00:31:20,755 --> 00:31:22,195 I can get from one place to another. 695 00:31:22,715 --> 00:31:24,995 I don't have large gaps or parking lots in between. 696 00:31:27,775 --> 00:31:30,925 Jason, are we writing language in there 697 00:31:30,925 --> 00:31:34,605 so the reviewing body can grant relief from that in a case 698 00:31:34,725 --> 00:31:37,445 by case if it's warranted by the site conditions 699 00:31:37,505 --> 00:31:38,965 or neighboring land uses? 700 00:31:39,115 --> 00:31:41,605 Yeah, so we, we have flexibility for the setback standard. 701 00:31:41,675 --> 00:31:44,405 Jodi, we didn't actually have flexibility for this standard. 702 00:31:44,825 --> 00:31:46,685 We can do that if you all would like to. 703 00:31:47,685 --> 00:31:49,245 I guess the question is do you want that flexibility 704 00:31:49,605 --> 00:31:51,805 standard by standard or do you want it just sort 705 00:31:51,805 --> 00:31:54,045 of wholesale against the standards in 706 00:31:54,045 --> 00:31:57,225 the neighborhood mixed use. Does that make sense? 707 00:31:57,415 --> 00:31:59,465 Yeah, probably wholesale. 708 00:32:00,225 --> 00:32:02,945 I could just see this resulting in a bunch of land divisions 709 00:32:02,945 --> 00:32:05,105 so somebody can hit that 60% mark 710 00:32:05,165 --> 00:32:07,945 and then, then there's just a vacant lot sitting there 711 00:32:08,585 --> 00:32:09,825 'cause they're trying to hit that number. 712 00:32:10,735 --> 00:32:14,145 Yeah, and and to some extent that's a little bit 713 00:32:14,145 --> 00:32:17,265 of the idea because you create development 714 00:32:17,335 --> 00:32:18,465 lots then with frontage. 715 00:32:19,205 --> 00:32:22,305 So pro and con there for sure, right? 716 00:32:22,805 --> 00:32:24,985 You have that risk that somebody does divide their 717 00:32:25,005 --> 00:32:26,145 lot to meet the standard. 718 00:32:26,845 --> 00:32:28,025 The potential benefit of 719 00:32:28,025 --> 00:32:30,025 that is now you have a development lot that 720 00:32:30,885 --> 00:32:32,265 in theory is sitting next to it. 721 00:32:35,495 --> 00:32:37,475 So we can certainly give some flexibility. 722 00:32:37,595 --> 00:32:39,925 I would say what we'd want there is if somebody comes to you 723 00:32:39,925 --> 00:32:41,325 and says, well I want to build this building, 724 00:32:41,445 --> 00:32:43,325 I have this wide lot, you could say, well shucks, 725 00:32:43,325 --> 00:32:46,845 you could split it and then sell that lot next to you 726 00:32:46,845 --> 00:32:48,405 to somebody else to build a great building. 727 00:32:48,785 --> 00:32:52,725 But share a driveway. Yes, but share a driveway per the TMO. 728 00:32:55,645 --> 00:32:58,605 Were there any other changes within that village? 729 00:32:58,605 --> 00:33:00,925 Commercial district? 730 00:33:01,405 --> 00:33:03,165 I, there's a lot of markups there, right? 731 00:33:03,485 --> 00:33:06,085 A lot of the reductions are, we're taking that big long list 732 00:33:06,085 --> 00:33:08,885 of uses that it was in is in every article now 733 00:33:08,885 --> 00:33:09,965 and we're moving it into the table. 734 00:33:10,705 --> 00:33:12,765 So the table is the one place where every, 735 00:33:12,765 --> 00:33:14,605 where all the uses that are permitted has shown. 736 00:33:14,665 --> 00:33:16,645 So we don't have potential conflicts in 737 00:33:16,645 --> 00:33:17,845 different places of the ordinance. 738 00:33:18,505 --> 00:33:20,605 That's the, you know, the markup for the first two 739 00:33:20,605 --> 00:33:23,485 and a half pages or so in what you have. 740 00:33:28,335 --> 00:33:31,995 So as far as the, the village form 741 00:33:33,395 --> 00:33:33,885 overlay, 742 00:33:40,475 --> 00:33:44,555 are we taking out like the requirements for, 743 00:33:45,495 --> 00:33:49,275 are we leaving in the a, the architectural requirements, the 744 00:33:50,015 --> 00:33:52,275 facade requirements, what they have to look the, 745 00:33:52,535 --> 00:33:53,535 Yep. 746 00:33:53,535 --> 00:33:53,755 So if you flip to, I don't 747 00:33:53,755 --> 00:33:54,635 know what page it is in your packet. 748 00:33:55,195 --> 00:33:58,395 Page six in the village commercial 749 00:33:58,415 --> 00:34:00,035 or neighborhood mixed use markup. 750 00:34:02,225 --> 00:34:03,835 There's a, there's a section there 751 00:34:03,835 --> 00:34:05,395 for exterior building materials. 752 00:34:07,805 --> 00:34:10,855 Page 24. Page 24. Okay. 753 00:34:17,295 --> 00:34:19,375 I can pull it up really quickly on screen too. 754 00:34:19,885 --> 00:34:24,165 Okay, Hang on. 755 00:34:24,205 --> 00:34:26,125 I just gotta figure out which direction to drag this. 756 00:34:26,745 --> 00:34:27,745 Ah, To the right. 757 00:34:30,485 --> 00:34:32,345 Oh he's looking at a table. We're looking at this 758 00:34:34,355 --> 00:34:35,355 Right here. 759 00:34:37,035 --> 00:34:41,535 So it's this, sorry, almost there. 760 00:34:42,165 --> 00:34:46,095 4, 5, 6. 761 00:34:49,115 --> 00:34:50,925 I'll try to zoom in a little bit. Sorry. 762 00:34:55,475 --> 00:34:58,375 So it's these standards we pulled, some of these are from 763 00:34:58,375 --> 00:35:00,335 that existing form-based code section. 764 00:35:01,255 --> 00:35:03,215 Some of 'em are just things that we've found work well in 765 00:35:03,215 --> 00:35:08,135 similar kind of developing townships like amo certainly not 766 00:35:08,135 --> 00:35:10,455 as detailed right as those architectural standards 767 00:35:10,455 --> 00:35:13,375 that exist today, but still requiring high quality building 768 00:35:13,695 --> 00:35:16,135 materials, ensuring we aren't ending up with things 769 00:35:16,135 --> 00:35:18,095 that are, you know, aluminum, vinyl siding, 770 00:35:19,355 --> 00:35:23,615 but not providing near the, the level of sort of detail and, 771 00:35:23,615 --> 00:35:25,895 and adding the level of cost that comes along with some 772 00:35:25,895 --> 00:35:28,095 of those requirements that exist in the overlay today. 773 00:35:29,695 --> 00:35:32,205 Okay. Just editorial comment. 774 00:35:33,195 --> 00:35:37,765 That form-based code was something, the planning commission 775 00:35:37,765 --> 00:35:39,925 that was in place at the time, which I was on then 776 00:35:41,305 --> 00:35:43,245 it was such a, a large project 777 00:35:43,425 --> 00:35:47,005 and we went, it took a long time to get to it 778 00:35:47,065 --> 00:35:49,485 and it took, I mean we went through it line 779 00:35:49,505 --> 00:35:51,605 by line like we are the other things we see today. 780 00:35:52,185 --> 00:35:54,565 And it was just such a, a hope. 781 00:35:54,685 --> 00:35:56,925 I mean to me it was a vision of what we would really like 782 00:35:56,925 --> 00:36:01,155 to see happen and it just kind of sad 783 00:36:01,155 --> 00:36:02,355 that it's not turning out that way. 784 00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:06,595 Yeah, And that was why like the parking for instance, 785 00:36:08,055 --> 00:36:09,595 if you put the parking in the back, 786 00:36:09,665 --> 00:36:13,495 even though you still have a busy road, you could still have 787 00:36:13,495 --> 00:36:16,495 that pedestrian traffic on the sidewalks. 788 00:36:19,015 --> 00:36:23,115 I think about Mike's example was Frankenmuth, you know, 789 00:36:23,115 --> 00:36:24,595 it's, it's very walkable 790 00:36:25,255 --> 00:36:27,155 and it's a busy main street through there, 791 00:36:27,215 --> 00:36:29,915 but all their parking or their parking is all behind those, 792 00:36:29,925 --> 00:36:30,995 those buildings there. 793 00:36:31,575 --> 00:36:34,075 So that was kind of the what I was seeing, 794 00:36:34,135 --> 00:36:37,275 but hoping that would fit here, but I don't know if it does. 795 00:36:38,665 --> 00:36:42,155 Well and and so I think the, the balance on this right is 796 00:36:43,575 --> 00:36:46,155 the what you, the sort 797 00:36:46,155 --> 00:36:48,195 of gradual progression on change in development. 798 00:36:48,195 --> 00:36:50,715 So you have one building there that's a single story 799 00:36:50,715 --> 00:36:52,795 that's set at the street, right? 800 00:36:53,785 --> 00:36:54,835 It's the only one. 801 00:36:55,405 --> 00:36:57,795 Everything else has a parking lot in front. 802 00:36:57,875 --> 00:36:59,675 I think there might be one more. Everything else has 803 00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:00,755 a parking lot in front of it. 804 00:37:01,185 --> 00:37:02,435 It's pretty far set back. 805 00:37:02,495 --> 00:37:05,355 And so the issue is like somebody's gotta go first 806 00:37:05,375 --> 00:37:07,635 and there's a gradual transition there that needs to happen. 807 00:37:08,855 --> 00:37:11,395 The other challenge that you have there is 808 00:37:12,735 --> 00:37:16,955 you have a really large wide roadway that is really busy 809 00:37:17,015 --> 00:37:18,715 and loud and it's hard to make 810 00:37:18,715 --> 00:37:20,715 that be a welcoming place for pedestrians. 811 00:37:21,055 --> 00:37:24,675 So if you can sort of allow some of that same development 812 00:37:24,675 --> 00:37:26,875 to happen but have the focus be not necessarily on the road 813 00:37:27,015 --> 00:37:28,715 but on side streets 814 00:37:28,775 --> 00:37:32,035 or areas adjacent to it, there's that opportunity. 815 00:37:32,315 --> 00:37:35,115 I think the recognition here from staff 816 00:37:35,115 --> 00:37:36,955 and in working through it was just we haven't seen 817 00:37:36,955 --> 00:37:38,195 that development occur there 818 00:37:38,335 --> 00:37:39,715 and there's some sense that some 819 00:37:39,715 --> 00:37:41,675 of those requirements could be a barrier. 820 00:37:42,415 --> 00:37:44,395 And so trying to strike that balance, I think 821 00:37:44,395 --> 00:37:46,675 as planning commission, if you all really feel like we don't 822 00:37:46,675 --> 00:37:48,915 want to go so far as to allow parking in the front, 823 00:37:49,015 --> 00:37:51,075 we can strike that, right? 824 00:37:51,095 --> 00:37:53,235 We could adjust that, we could keep that minimum, 825 00:37:53,385 --> 00:37:54,955 that maximum setback at 40 826 00:37:55,055 --> 00:37:57,275 but not allow any parking in the front of a building 827 00:37:58,195 --> 00:38:00,555 and require that space to be landscaped 828 00:38:00,555 --> 00:38:02,235 or you know, other things to be done with it. 829 00:38:11,205 --> 00:38:13,135 Does anybody else have, have thoughts on that issue of, 830 00:38:13,335 --> 00:38:14,375 you know, parking in the front, in 831 00:38:14,375 --> 00:38:15,575 that neighborhood mixed use area? 832 00:38:18,945 --> 00:38:23,345 I mean personally I like just from seeing other 833 00:38:23,345 --> 00:38:26,265 municipalities have that and, and the walkability and access 834 00:38:26,445 --> 00:38:28,265 and what it's doing to these evolving communities 835 00:38:29,245 --> 00:38:33,165 and it also, depending on what type of business too, 836 00:38:33,345 --> 00:38:34,645 it could be extremely attractive. 837 00:38:37,005 --> 00:38:38,665 You know, I'm gonna say something here 838 00:38:38,665 --> 00:38:39,945 that maybe I shouldn't say, 839 00:38:40,005 --> 00:38:43,665 but I, I've never thought that the Oshtemo Village 840 00:38:44,925 --> 00:38:48,425 was going to be a walkable area that you take your life 841 00:38:48,425 --> 00:38:52,065 and your hands just trying to get across Stadium drive 842 00:38:52,365 --> 00:38:56,305 and until we deal with that issue, we, 843 00:38:56,325 --> 00:38:58,225 we may have the best intentions 844 00:38:58,685 --> 00:39:01,425 but I just don't see the area developing 845 00:39:01,455 --> 00:39:03,225 with the traffic flow through there. 846 00:39:04,365 --> 00:39:05,705 Am I, am I wrong on that? 847 00:39:06,945 --> 00:39:08,285 No, you're probably right. 848 00:39:08,465 --> 00:39:12,005 But I could also see issues with having parking so close 849 00:39:12,005 --> 00:39:13,925 to the street in those front yards 850 00:39:13,925 --> 00:39:17,205 because you're gonna have to somehow get off of 851 00:39:17,205 --> 00:39:18,525 that busy road to park there 852 00:39:18,525 --> 00:39:20,445 and then you're gonna have to figure out how to get back on 853 00:39:20,445 --> 00:39:23,005 that busy road where if if you have your parking in the 854 00:39:23,005 --> 00:39:27,975 back, you've got a longer access to use. 855 00:39:29,215 --> 00:39:31,415 I mean you, you have some parking there now that's, 856 00:39:31,415 --> 00:39:33,615 that's probably closer than 40 feet 857 00:39:33,615 --> 00:39:34,655 to the right of way I would guess. 858 00:39:34,655 --> 00:39:36,015 There's a pretty big right of way there. 859 00:39:37,795 --> 00:39:41,325 So I mean I, I think what we were trying 860 00:39:41,325 --> 00:39:44,085 to do is really sort of simplify these requirements, 861 00:39:44,085 --> 00:39:46,525 strip them down to allow for new investment in that area. 862 00:39:46,725 --> 00:39:48,525 'cause there hasn't been much in a really long time 863 00:39:48,545 --> 00:39:50,925 and it's kind of starting to show it. 864 00:39:52,865 --> 00:39:55,405 We can certainly, if, if the sort of pleasure 865 00:39:55,405 --> 00:39:57,445 of the planning commission is still keep parking in the back 866 00:39:57,445 --> 00:39:59,405 with none of that in the front, I think that's fine. 867 00:40:00,245 --> 00:40:01,525 I would say you do need to, 868 00:40:02,245 --> 00:40:04,725 I would caution you against not allowing any vehicle 869 00:40:04,725 --> 00:40:08,005 circulation in front of a a business just 870 00:40:08,005 --> 00:40:10,085 because what ends up happening with that is 871 00:40:10,785 --> 00:40:13,885 if a business can't get a car around front, you end up 872 00:40:13,885 --> 00:40:18,325 with extra driveways that are problematic as well. 873 00:40:18,865 --> 00:40:21,645 So giving some flexibility if there's space for a car 874 00:40:21,645 --> 00:40:23,165 to still move around the front of a business, 875 00:40:23,165 --> 00:40:24,165 they can have one driveway 876 00:40:24,165 --> 00:40:28,125 and still get access all the way around if you had a sort 877 00:40:28,125 --> 00:40:30,285 of pickup window kind of use there, right? 878 00:40:31,465 --> 00:40:32,965 But we could prohibit parking 879 00:40:33,105 --> 00:40:36,165 and then that maximum setback could still stay at 40. 880 00:40:36,305 --> 00:40:38,725 We just aren't allowing parking in the front yard. 881 00:40:43,325 --> 00:40:46,245 I mean, but what, what's the, what's the flag that, 882 00:40:46,985 --> 00:40:47,985 Say That again? 883 00:40:47,985 --> 00:40:49,405 What's the concern of having it in the front? 884 00:40:49,865 --> 00:40:50,925 One of the major concerns 885 00:40:51,515 --> 00:40:53,165 that differentiate from having it in the back, 886 00:40:53,505 --> 00:40:56,805 The whole idea of the village form-based code was 887 00:40:56,825 --> 00:41:01,575 to create this walkable, pedestrian friendly 888 00:41:02,905 --> 00:41:05,835 area like the village, if you will. 889 00:41:06,175 --> 00:41:09,875 So when we were writing that, it was that to have 890 00:41:09,875 --> 00:41:13,675 that walkability you need to get the cars away from there. 891 00:41:14,855 --> 00:41:16,555 So if you've got parking in the back 892 00:41:17,465 --> 00:41:20,115 then plus if you have a parking lot in the back, 893 00:41:20,935 --> 00:41:23,515 you could walk to several different places without, 894 00:41:23,615 --> 00:41:28,495 you know, that's, that's just my thought. 895 00:41:28,835 --> 00:41:30,975 If I went to that district to shop, 896 00:41:31,635 --> 00:41:34,245 I'd rather turn the building around, put the parking 897 00:41:34,425 --> 00:41:35,765 and the entrance in the back 898 00:41:36,145 --> 00:41:37,885 and stay away from Stadium drive. 899 00:41:38,165 --> 00:41:40,125 'cause it is such a, 900 00:41:40,635 --> 00:41:43,805 it's not a neighborhood, it's a thoroughfare. 901 00:41:46,145 --> 00:41:49,525 We do allow some parking in front right now once you get 902 00:41:49,545 --> 00:41:51,765 out of the core area of ninth and stadium. 903 00:41:51,865 --> 00:41:54,085 And as you make your way east 904 00:41:54,145 --> 00:41:56,725 and west on Stadium Dry, we allow limited parking 905 00:41:56,725 --> 00:41:58,125 between the building and the street. 906 00:41:58,225 --> 00:41:59,805 And it also depends on what's happening 907 00:41:59,805 --> 00:42:01,005 on adjacent properties. 908 00:42:01,625 --> 00:42:03,325 And this neighborhood mixed use won't just 909 00:42:03,345 --> 00:42:04,445 be at ninth and stadium. 910 00:42:04,505 --> 00:42:09,285 We have areas on KL West Main and seventh and then north 911 00:42:09,305 --> 00:42:12,485 and south of West Maine by Drake Road are areas designated 912 00:42:12,505 --> 00:42:13,685 for neighborhood mixed use 913 00:42:13,785 --> 00:42:15,445 to keep in mind about the parking. 914 00:42:15,885 --> 00:42:19,485 Although we could distinguish neighborhood mixed use A 915 00:42:19,625 --> 00:42:21,605 and neighborhood mixed use B or 916 00:42:21,915 --> 00:42:23,645 Yeah, we, I mean today the, 917 00:42:23,645 --> 00:42:25,245 the village form based code has different areas 918 00:42:25,245 --> 00:42:27,205 that are designated and treated differently, right? 919 00:42:27,345 --> 00:42:30,245 So if we really felt like we wanted to reserve that 920 00:42:30,825 --> 00:42:34,285 key intersection or place as the location where we're trying 921 00:42:34,285 --> 00:42:37,405 to shift parking to the back, we can designate an area 922 00:42:37,625 --> 00:42:41,685 and on the plan or define it based on cross streets or 923 00:42:41,685 --> 00:42:43,605 however we want to do that so that we're still achieving 924 00:42:43,605 --> 00:42:45,685 that goal while giving greater flexibility 925 00:42:45,685 --> 00:42:46,765 in the rest of the area. 926 00:42:47,735 --> 00:42:49,405 Isn't that exactly what we're trying 927 00:42:49,405 --> 00:42:50,765 to avoid by doing this? 928 00:42:51,065 --> 00:42:53,965 We, we've got so many classifications that we, 929 00:42:54,465 --> 00:42:56,965 we don't wanna have a lot of special exemptions. 930 00:42:57,015 --> 00:42:58,885 We're, we're trying to get one 931 00:42:59,205 --> 00:43:00,805 simplified classification, right? 932 00:43:02,925 --> 00:43:04,845 I I would say that let's not make, 933 00:43:04,905 --> 00:43:08,845 let a perfect be the enemy of the good, right? 934 00:43:08,865 --> 00:43:10,805 And in this case we're going from a bunch 935 00:43:10,805 --> 00:43:13,485 of different special classifications down to one 936 00:43:14,665 --> 00:43:15,765 and that's a win, right? 937 00:43:15,765 --> 00:43:16,965 We're going from three to one 938 00:43:18,185 --> 00:43:20,925 and again, like we can come back to you with some revisions 939 00:43:20,925 --> 00:43:23,165 to this next time that you can look at that kind of helps 940 00:43:23,225 --> 00:43:26,285 to get into this issue you've identified on how do we deal 941 00:43:26,285 --> 00:43:28,525 with parking and we'll, we'll mock up a couple 942 00:43:28,525 --> 00:43:30,765 of really simple examples that you could look at 943 00:43:30,765 --> 00:43:31,845 to see how that might work. 944 00:43:34,395 --> 00:43:37,235 Anything else on these edits to village commercial 945 00:43:37,495 --> 00:43:39,395 or neighborhood mixed use that stuck out to anyone? 946 00:43:41,035 --> 00:43:44,155 I was just gonna say some visuals I think of, of some 947 00:43:44,235 --> 00:43:46,715 of the things you're talking about in this document would 948 00:43:46,715 --> 00:43:48,275 really help if, especially if you're trying 949 00:43:48,275 --> 00:43:50,195 to paint a vision for development. 950 00:43:50,515 --> 00:43:52,955 I think that's maybe what was missing from all the work 951 00:43:52,955 --> 00:43:56,715 that you have in here to help people kind of envision it 952 00:43:56,775 --> 00:43:58,275 and, and want to buy into it. 953 00:44:00,115 --> 00:44:03,895 The one other thing that the Frankenmuth example 954 00:44:04,755 --> 00:44:07,055 is going through a downtown area where 955 00:44:07,595 --> 00:44:11,895 if the traffic is going 25, 35 miles an hour, 956 00:44:11,895 --> 00:44:12,975 they're going fast. 957 00:44:13,955 --> 00:44:15,975 And this, unless we change 958 00:44:16,075 --> 00:44:18,375 or can get that changed, it, 959 00:44:18,435 --> 00:44:21,215 it will always feel like 960 00:44:21,965 --> 00:44:25,735 this little space that you're zooming by 961 00:44:26,595 --> 00:44:30,095 not the neighborhood that you're enjoying personally. 962 00:44:30,765 --> 00:44:33,325 Well, and I, I always, I caution anybody, 963 00:44:33,345 --> 00:44:35,925 but it's using against using Frankenmuth as an example 964 00:44:36,025 --> 00:44:38,205 for anything, right? 965 00:44:38,275 --> 00:44:40,605 Just because there's however many millions of people that go 966 00:44:40,605 --> 00:44:43,805 to Frankenmuth every year because it's Frankenmuth, right? 967 00:44:43,865 --> 00:44:45,165 And, and so you know, 968 00:44:45,165 --> 00:44:46,885 you're gonna get a certain level of foot traffic. 969 00:44:46,915 --> 00:44:49,245 Like that is a very unique case. 970 00:44:49,515 --> 00:44:51,285 It's like comparing somewhere else in, 971 00:44:51,795 --> 00:44:52,805 it's not New York City, 972 00:44:52,825 --> 00:44:54,885 but it's like comparing yourself to a place that just 973 00:44:55,705 --> 00:44:57,565 is incredibly unique, right? 974 00:44:58,945 --> 00:45:02,575 The thing that zoning doesn't do is create a market, right? 975 00:45:02,635 --> 00:45:04,095 So we, we control what you can do. 976 00:45:04,235 --> 00:45:06,295 We, we set the sort of the framework 977 00:45:06,295 --> 00:45:08,295 and the groundwork for what can be developed, 978 00:45:08,835 --> 00:45:10,935 but we can't create a market for development. 979 00:45:10,955 --> 00:45:13,855 And so that the challenge you have is with stadium drive. 980 00:45:14,035 --> 00:45:16,615 The stadium drive area being what it is, the market 981 00:45:16,635 --> 00:45:18,895 for development there is gonna be sort of auto oriented. 982 00:45:19,075 --> 00:45:20,735 And so what we're trying to do is shift 983 00:45:20,735 --> 00:45:23,175 that building development to be sort of 984 00:45:24,925 --> 00:45:27,415 focused a little more and being more friendlier 985 00:45:27,415 --> 00:45:29,455 and creating options for pedestrians 986 00:45:29,995 --> 00:45:32,815 and use while still understanding that the predominant sort 987 00:45:32,815 --> 00:45:35,535 of way folks are gonna get there is gonna be via the car. 988 00:45:35,535 --> 00:45:38,415 Because that's just how that area of the Township functions. 989 00:45:40,295 --> 00:45:42,865 Yeah, I don't disagree. It's just that, you know, 990 00:45:42,865 --> 00:45:44,625 we started working on on that. 991 00:45:44,625 --> 00:45:47,105 It's like what do we want this to look like? Yeah. 992 00:45:47,285 --> 00:45:49,705 And that was where the Franken Ruth reference came up 993 00:45:49,705 --> 00:45:51,915 because that's what we'd like it to look like. 994 00:45:52,305 --> 00:45:53,795 Yeah, I understand. 995 00:45:56,275 --> 00:45:58,965 Okay. So the next set of changes are to that, 996 00:45:58,965 --> 00:46:00,125 that mixed use district. 997 00:46:01,585 --> 00:46:03,565 So this one there's a fair amount of changes, again, 998 00:46:03,565 --> 00:46:05,405 really focused on simplification. 999 00:46:07,225 --> 00:46:09,485 So revised location criteria. 1000 00:46:09,585 --> 00:46:12,405 As we mentioned earlier, the mixed use district now is 1001 00:46:12,685 --> 00:46:15,405 eligible to use in anywhere in the previous master plan 1002 00:46:15,405 --> 00:46:17,765 where there was a sub area plan. 1003 00:46:18,385 --> 00:46:20,245 So we've changed that to align with some of the, 1004 00:46:20,245 --> 00:46:22,165 the sub area plans and, and, 1005 00:46:22,425 --> 00:46:25,925 and locations identified in the current comprehensive plan. 1006 00:46:27,505 --> 00:46:30,045 We clarified the approval and review process 1007 00:46:30,225 --> 00:46:32,045 and I have that outlined on the next slide. 1008 00:46:32,055 --> 00:46:35,885 We'll step through that together, simplified the, 1009 00:46:36,265 --> 00:46:39,125 the standards around mobility, how you get around 1010 00:46:39,125 --> 00:46:42,605 and traffic studies to just be focused on encouraging 1011 00:46:43,745 --> 00:46:47,165 non vehicular modes of transportation versus regulating 1012 00:46:47,185 --> 00:46:50,405 how many trips are generated internally or externally. 1013 00:46:52,305 --> 00:46:55,205 We remove the requirements for the mixed use district 1014 00:46:55,265 --> 00:46:58,725 to have its own or a mixed use district to adopt its own set 1015 00:46:58,725 --> 00:46:59,725 of design standards. 1016 00:47:00,305 --> 00:47:02,125 So when we talk next week, 1017 00:47:02,135 --> 00:47:04,885 we'll be talking about some basic design standards similar 1018 00:47:04,945 --> 00:47:06,845 to those that we talked about in the neighborhood, mixed use 1019 00:47:06,905 --> 00:47:09,045 for this regional commercial and other developments. 1020 00:47:09,825 --> 00:47:12,485 And instead asking developers to show how they'd like 1021 00:47:12,485 --> 00:47:13,605 to modify or add 1022 00:47:13,605 --> 00:47:16,245 to those standards in their proposal versus coming up 1023 00:47:16,245 --> 00:47:18,245 with a whole new set of design requirements. 1024 00:47:19,425 --> 00:47:21,645 The reason for that is depending on the sophistication 1025 00:47:21,645 --> 00:47:22,685 of developer you have, 1026 00:47:22,745 --> 00:47:25,165 you might get some design requirements that leave a lot 1027 00:47:25,165 --> 00:47:27,885 to be desired and then you're sort of negotiating back 1028 00:47:27,885 --> 00:47:30,765 and forth on a set of design standards that they started 1029 00:47:30,795 --> 00:47:32,485 with that are maybe nowhere 1030 00:47:32,495 --> 00:47:33,765 close to what you're looking for. 1031 00:47:33,765 --> 00:47:35,965 And this way we're at least starting closer to 1032 00:47:35,965 --> 00:47:37,325 where you'd wanted them to begin. 1033 00:47:39,375 --> 00:47:42,845 We've also simplified the density bonus calculation to align 1034 00:47:42,955 --> 00:47:45,645 with the high residential density classification in the 1035 00:47:45,645 --> 00:47:48,845 current mixed use and just clarified some 1036 00:47:48,845 --> 00:47:50,405 of those things you can get a bonus for. 1037 00:47:51,185 --> 00:47:53,645 And then remove duplication with other, other articles. 1038 00:47:53,645 --> 00:47:56,005 There are things here that are replicated in landscaping 1039 00:47:56,025 --> 00:48:00,245 and signs and parking that will address in those articles. 1040 00:48:00,245 --> 00:48:02,525 So there's not conflicting standards depending on the 1041 00:48:02,525 --> 00:48:06,845 different zoning district that 1042 00:48:06,845 --> 00:48:08,125 clarified review process. 1043 00:48:08,345 --> 00:48:11,925 We, we've taken out the reference to a schematic design plan 1044 00:48:12,925 --> 00:48:14,365 'cause it was a little confusing about 1045 00:48:14,365 --> 00:48:16,805 what the schematic design plan did relative 1046 00:48:16,805 --> 00:48:18,965 to the conceptual design plan. 1047 00:48:19,105 --> 00:48:21,365 And so we just have focused on the conceptual plan. 1048 00:48:22,265 --> 00:48:26,085 So the, the review processes that exist now starts 1049 00:48:26,085 --> 00:48:27,725 with an optional pre-application meeting 1050 00:48:27,725 --> 00:48:28,965 with Township ship staff. 1051 00:48:29,035 --> 00:48:30,165 It's the same as it is today. 1052 00:48:31,725 --> 00:48:33,885 A planning commission conceptual plan review 1053 00:48:33,885 --> 00:48:34,965 that's non-binding. 1054 00:48:35,025 --> 00:48:36,285 So the pla there's a public, 1055 00:48:36,485 --> 00:48:37,885 a required public hearing for that. 1056 00:48:38,305 --> 00:48:40,645 The conceptual plan would come here to planning commission. 1057 00:48:40,705 --> 00:48:42,405 It could be presented, there could be 1058 00:48:42,405 --> 00:48:43,525 a public hearing on it. 1059 00:48:43,765 --> 00:48:44,965 Planning commission can give comments 1060 00:48:45,705 --> 00:48:47,485 and then the developer comes back 1061 00:48:47,485 --> 00:48:49,645 with an actual application for a rezoning. 1062 00:48:49,745 --> 00:48:52,365 So there's a formal way to give comment and feedback 1063 00:48:52,705 --> 00:48:53,845 before there's a decision 1064 00:48:53,865 --> 00:48:55,525 or a recommendation that needs to be made. 1065 00:48:55,915 --> 00:48:58,085 Developer then comes back to the rezoning with 1066 00:48:58,085 --> 00:49:00,885 that revised conceptual plan based on step number two, 1067 00:49:01,635 --> 00:49:03,845 another public hearing that rezoning goes 1068 00:49:03,845 --> 00:49:04,845 to the Township board. 1069 00:49:04,845 --> 00:49:09,485 Then for final action, we did add some clear definitions 1070 00:49:09,505 --> 00:49:13,085 for minor amendments that can be approved by staff so 1071 00:49:13,085 --> 00:49:16,525 that any change to that conceptual plan doesn't have 1072 00:49:16,525 --> 00:49:18,365 to come back to you all or to the Township board. 1073 00:49:18,905 --> 00:49:21,845 So if small changes to parking, landscaping, things 1074 00:49:21,845 --> 00:49:23,365 that don't significantly impact building 1075 00:49:23,385 --> 00:49:26,245 or layout happen, those things can improve by staff. 1076 00:49:26,265 --> 00:49:28,885 We don't have to go back through that review process 1077 00:49:34,635 --> 00:49:37,695 In our screen right now. 1078 00:49:38,555 --> 00:49:41,175 The simplified density bonus calculation. 1079 00:49:42,105 --> 00:49:43,825 I just wanted to bring up one item. 1080 00:49:44,245 --> 00:49:46,665 The we're giving a bonus for 1081 00:49:47,255 --> 00:49:49,465 good construction leads. 1082 00:49:50,245 --> 00:49:52,985 Silver, this platinum mat. Yeah. 1083 00:49:53,285 --> 00:49:57,225 And I, and these developments are gonna be done 1084 00:49:57,765 --> 00:49:59,105 by a developer who 1085 00:49:59,855 --> 00:50:03,625 will have a vested interest in the quality of the building, 1086 00:50:04,365 --> 00:50:08,065 in the insulation, in the, the way it's constructed. 1087 00:50:08,445 --> 00:50:12,065 And I, I don't understand why we should incent them 1088 00:50:12,125 --> 00:50:14,905 to do something they already are incented to do 1089 00:50:15,725 --> 00:50:17,025 by their own need. 1090 00:50:18,755 --> 00:50:19,755 Help me, 1091 00:50:22,365 --> 00:50:25,365 I wish all developers approach the development project 1092 00:50:25,515 --> 00:50:27,450 with the idea that I want to build something 1093 00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:28,805 that lasts for a hundred years. 1094 00:50:29,795 --> 00:50:34,725 They do not. So those standards exist in your current 1095 00:50:34,815 --> 00:50:35,845 mixed use district. 1096 00:50:36,235 --> 00:50:38,565 They're density bonuses you give today. 1097 00:50:38,625 --> 00:50:40,965 We didn't edit those. The reason 1098 00:50:40,965 --> 00:50:43,445 to have those standards is you're incentivizing higher 1099 00:50:43,445 --> 00:50:44,485 quality development. 1100 00:50:44,625 --> 00:50:47,165 So yes, there's some incentive there 1101 00:50:47,165 --> 00:50:48,845 for long term building operation, 1102 00:50:48,865 --> 00:50:50,565 but short term it's more expensive. 1103 00:50:51,985 --> 00:50:53,685 So if you're allowing higher density, 1104 00:50:54,045 --> 00:50:57,245 I can get a greater return on development in this site 1105 00:50:57,545 --> 00:50:58,565 if I do those things. 1106 00:50:58,795 --> 00:51:00,365 Otherwise, it's just an expense 1107 00:51:00,865 --> 00:51:03,005 and I'm less likely to do it as a developer. 1108 00:51:05,385 --> 00:51:06,925 So if I'm adding more insulation 1109 00:51:06,945 --> 00:51:08,805 to my building than I would normally be required 1110 00:51:08,805 --> 00:51:11,525 to under building code to meet this lead green energy 1111 00:51:11,885 --> 00:51:15,165 certification, that's great. 1112 00:51:15,305 --> 00:51:16,765 And my building may last longer 1113 00:51:16,765 --> 00:51:18,005 and be more energy efficient, 1114 00:51:18,345 --> 00:51:20,725 but it doesn't necessarily mean I can, I can sell that, 1115 00:51:20,925 --> 00:51:22,245 I can lease that square footage 1116 00:51:22,345 --> 00:51:24,285 for more on day one than I could otherwise. 1117 00:51:25,465 --> 00:51:28,365 So the incentive here is to do that at a density bonus. 1118 00:51:28,465 --> 00:51:32,745 So there's the a, there's more potential profit, 1119 00:51:32,905 --> 00:51:35,345 I can get more units out of the same site if I do 1120 00:51:35,345 --> 00:51:36,865 that thing via the Township. 1121 00:51:37,325 --> 00:51:39,705 And that's consistent with goals for sort of sustainability 1122 00:51:39,805 --> 00:51:41,865 and environmental protection that the Township has. 1123 00:51:41,925 --> 00:51:42,925 Yes, 1124 00:51:47,665 --> 00:51:48,665 Thank you. 1125 00:51:49,795 --> 00:51:52,135 Not something you have to keep is not a requirement. 1126 00:51:52,195 --> 00:51:54,215 As I mentioned it exists in your current ordinance. 1127 00:51:55,355 --> 00:51:57,935 And so if if that's not a priority anymore, I would say 1128 00:51:57,935 --> 00:52:00,055 that lead certification is something 1129 00:52:00,055 --> 00:52:01,575 that is still a priority. 1130 00:52:01,845 --> 00:52:03,735 It's less of an interest now just 1131 00:52:03,735 --> 00:52:06,175 because construction costs are so stinking high. 1132 00:52:07,235 --> 00:52:08,615 You see fewer buildings 1133 00:52:08,615 --> 00:52:10,255 that are being certified than they were five 1134 00:52:10,255 --> 00:52:11,295 or 10 years ago just 1135 00:52:11,295 --> 00:52:13,455 because of the cost of construction has gone up so much. 1136 00:52:18,735 --> 00:52:22,605 Jason, if development gets the ben density bonus, is 1137 00:52:22,605 --> 00:52:24,285 that for lead? 1138 00:52:24,665 --> 00:52:27,525 Is that for the building official to monitor 1139 00:52:27,785 --> 00:52:29,245 as building permits are pulled? 1140 00:52:30,355 --> 00:52:32,285 Yeah, so there'd have to be a commitment from 1141 00:52:32,285 --> 00:52:35,005 that developer that they're gonna follow through on 1142 00:52:35,005 --> 00:52:36,685 that at the time of site plan review 1143 00:52:36,865 --> 00:52:38,485 and then you would all would have to coordinate 1144 00:52:38,485 --> 00:52:41,205 with your building official to be sure that that is done. 1145 00:52:42,745 --> 00:52:45,365 So there's a, a somewhat challenging bit 1146 00:52:45,365 --> 00:52:47,885 of administration there where you all would have to confirm 1147 00:52:47,915 --> 00:52:49,605 that essentially that standard's been met 1148 00:52:49,605 --> 00:52:51,125 before you granted an occupancy 1149 00:52:51,125 --> 00:52:55,465 permit, which is tricky. 1150 00:52:56,075 --> 00:52:57,545 Again, it's a current standard. 1151 00:52:57,685 --> 00:52:59,585 We kept it because we're trying to stick 1152 00:52:59,585 --> 00:53:01,465 with current standards, but if you all are uncomfortable 1153 00:53:01,465 --> 00:53:03,745 with that, we can certainly remove that bonus. 1154 00:53:10,175 --> 00:53:11,775 I don't think it's a good look to remove it. 1155 00:53:12,005 --> 00:53:14,735 Yeah, I just think we will bring in 1156 00:53:14,805 --> 00:53:17,535 outside help if the building official wants a third party 1157 00:53:17,595 --> 00:53:20,015 review of the plans to yeah. Verify. 1158 00:53:20,435 --> 00:53:20,655 Yep. 1159 00:53:26,295 --> 00:53:29,795 Any other questions on the mixed use changes? 1160 00:53:31,885 --> 00:53:33,675 Again, lots of procedural things 1161 00:53:33,895 --> 00:53:38,115 and clarifications overall does shorten the section up quite 1162 00:53:38,115 --> 00:53:40,115 a bit, but hopefully makes it easier to use 1163 00:53:40,115 --> 00:53:41,835 and more likely that you get that kind 1164 00:53:41,835 --> 00:53:42,835 of mixed use development. 1165 00:53:44,225 --> 00:53:46,155 It's a great start in terms of a, 1166 00:53:46,315 --> 00:53:48,715 a district just making some changes to try 1167 00:53:48,715 --> 00:53:52,475 to make it a little more functional development friendly, 1168 00:53:52,615 --> 00:53:55,155 but while still being sure you have some really clear checks 1169 00:53:55,175 --> 00:53:57,355 and balances and opportunities for public hearings. 1170 00:53:58,235 --> 00:53:59,235 Clarifying that there's, 1171 00:53:59,235 --> 00:54:00,435 there's two different public hearings 1172 00:54:00,435 --> 00:54:01,715 where you've got one public hearing 1173 00:54:01,715 --> 00:54:04,515 that's just on the concept so people can come 1174 00:54:04,515 --> 00:54:06,195 and give their feedback before there's any 1175 00:54:06,195 --> 00:54:07,315 final decision being made. 1176 00:54:07,335 --> 00:54:08,595 We think in talking with staff, 1177 00:54:08,595 --> 00:54:10,235 that's a really important opportunity. 1178 00:54:19,185 --> 00:54:21,805 All right. Hearing none, sorry, I lost my cursor. 1179 00:54:28,165 --> 00:54:30,745 So that covers what we wanted to go over tonight. 1180 00:54:31,165 --> 00:54:33,185 So we will park both 1181 00:54:33,405 --> 00:54:36,225 or we'll park that neighborhood mixed use parking 1182 00:54:36,435 --> 00:54:37,745 issue in our parking lot. 1183 00:54:38,635 --> 00:54:40,865 We'll come back to that next time with some examples. 1184 00:54:41,385 --> 00:54:42,545 I hear you about additional graphics. 1185 00:54:42,635 --> 00:54:44,945 We'll add some graphics and illustrations to show 1186 00:54:46,075 --> 00:54:48,065 we're focused on in that section. 1187 00:54:48,125 --> 00:54:51,105 So we'll bring you back a a, a draft number two of 1188 00:54:51,105 --> 00:54:52,185 that, one for next time. 1189 00:54:53,295 --> 00:54:54,305 Next time we meet together. 1190 00:54:54,305 --> 00:54:57,425 The things on our list is a, a preliminary zoning map, 1191 00:54:57,925 --> 00:54:59,225 so not final but draft 1192 00:54:59,225 --> 00:55:00,945 with those natural areas in green space 1193 00:55:01,505 --> 00:55:03,185 identified on it per our parking lot. 1194 00:55:04,075 --> 00:55:07,545 We'll come back to you with articles for parking, 1195 00:55:08,065 --> 00:55:10,305 landscaping and lighting in marked up drafts like just 1196 00:55:10,325 --> 00:55:11,465 you have in front of you tonight. 1197 00:55:12,085 --> 00:55:13,625 And those conditions and standards 1198 00:55:13,625 --> 00:55:15,185 for the commercial uses in districts 1199 00:55:15,185 --> 00:55:16,545 that we talked about tonight as well. 1200 00:55:17,405 --> 00:55:18,905 So you've got all of those things to review. 1201 00:55:18,905 --> 00:55:21,905 You have lots of those standards in conditions today, 1202 00:55:22,365 --> 00:55:23,745 so we'll just be tweaking some of those 1203 00:55:23,805 --> 00:55:25,425 for consistency being sure we aren't, 1204 00:55:25,425 --> 00:55:27,505 we don't have duplication, we shouldn't be making a ton 1205 00:55:27,505 --> 00:55:28,825 of significant changes to those, 1206 00:55:28,885 --> 00:55:30,465 but just sort of cleaning things up 1207 00:55:33,445 --> 00:55:36,145 And if your schedule allows Jason, we could do 1208 00:55:36,145 --> 00:55:37,425 that on October 22nd. 1209 00:55:37,895 --> 00:55:40,505 October 22nd you said. Yeah, that sounds great. 1210 00:55:45,645 --> 00:55:47,175 Well thank you for all the work you've 1211 00:55:47,175 --> 00:55:48,215 obviously put into this. 1212 00:55:48,215 --> 00:55:49,815 Yes, it always amazes me 1213 00:55:49,815 --> 00:55:52,295 how my head always spins every time you give me a 1214 00:55:52,335 --> 00:55:54,935 presentation, but it's, it's well thought out in well 1215 00:55:55,175 --> 00:55:56,175 Prepared. 1216 00:55:56,175 --> 00:55:56,415 Thank you. We're, we're making progress. 1217 00:55:56,475 --> 00:55:58,735 Can I I I'm gonna put one caveat on the 22nd. 1218 00:55:58,735 --> 00:56:01,375 There's a chance my son has varsity district 1219 00:56:01,375 --> 00:56:02,615 soccer game that day. 1220 00:56:03,195 --> 00:56:05,575 If he finds out he does, we might have to bump it. 1221 00:56:07,195 --> 00:56:09,055 No problem. Okay, thank you. Well, when will, you know, 1222 00:56:09,645 --> 00:56:11,535 Hopefully they lose beforehand and it doesn't matter. 1223 00:56:11,535 --> 00:56:14,495 Oh, no, no, you just reminded me. 1224 00:56:14,495 --> 00:56:15,895 I had one question in this table 1225 00:56:16,075 --> 00:56:19,735 and it was about outdoor recreation not being 1226 00:56:20,405 --> 00:56:23,055 allowed in innovation and industry or mixed use. 1227 00:56:23,225 --> 00:56:26,125 So I was just thinking maybe we would reconsider that with 1228 00:56:27,515 --> 00:56:29,615 things like soccer and baseball. 1229 00:56:29,815 --> 00:56:32,095 I don't know if those are only indoor outdoor. 1230 00:56:32,435 --> 00:56:36,855 We had a long talk about that Jodi, Leanna, Colton 1231 00:56:36,875 --> 00:56:40,375 and I, about how to kind of address that issue around sort 1232 00:56:40,375 --> 00:56:42,135 of outdoor recreational uses 1233 00:56:42,135 --> 00:56:44,815 because they are more of a thing now, 1234 00:56:45,145 --> 00:56:46,145 Right? 1235 00:56:50,095 --> 00:56:51,935 I think we landed on, we didn't want our limited 1236 00:56:51,945 --> 00:56:55,375 industrial land occupied by acres 1237 00:56:55,375 --> 00:56:56,535 and acres of soccer fields, 1238 00:56:56,625 --> 00:56:57,625 Right? 1239 00:56:57,625 --> 00:56:59,055 Yeah. When we could accommodate 1240 00:56:59,055 --> 00:57:00,775 that in some other zoning districts, 1241 00:57:01,995 --> 00:57:03,815 But it, it could just be a special use. 1242 00:57:03,815 --> 00:57:06,375 Then you still discuss case by case if you're 1243 00:57:08,195 --> 00:57:11,055 So like, I think the trick on that one right, is 1244 00:57:12,435 --> 00:57:15,095 so oftentimes those uses do end up in sort 1245 00:57:15,095 --> 00:57:16,615 of semi-industrial places, 1246 00:57:18,955 --> 00:57:22,215 but we could allow for, the challenge is, I don't know 1247 00:57:22,215 --> 00:57:24,575 that you have a lot of land that actually works for that 1248 00:57:24,575 --> 00:57:25,975 outside of rural residential, 1249 00:57:25,975 --> 00:57:28,095 and we probably don't want it in rural residential. 1250 00:57:29,335 --> 00:57:30,775 You don't have a lot of parcels 1251 00:57:30,775 --> 00:57:32,575 that are large enough in your neighborhood residential 1252 00:57:32,575 --> 00:57:34,215 that would support it and your commercial 1253 00:57:34,395 --> 00:57:36,815 and you don't have any big vacant commercial properties. 1254 00:57:36,815 --> 00:57:39,255 And again, you wouldn't necessarily want a commercial 1255 00:57:39,575 --> 00:57:42,495 property going to large soccer field uses. 1256 00:57:44,475 --> 00:57:48,055 So I, I think it's also a question of, so that, that one is 1257 00:57:48,115 --> 00:57:51,335 for private outdoor recreation versus public space. 1258 00:57:51,435 --> 00:57:52,855 So certainly public parks are 1259 00:57:52,855 --> 00:57:53,895 permitted in all of those places, 1260 00:57:55,155 --> 00:57:56,655 But I'm thinking like, yes, 1261 00:57:57,095 --> 00:57:58,215 I would agree with what you just said. 1262 00:57:58,215 --> 00:58:01,095 If you're thinking only of a large complex application, 1263 00:58:01,095 --> 00:58:03,255 but if you're thinking of like a single turf field, 1264 00:58:03,725 --> 00:58:05,615 like I think there's more of that. 1265 00:58:06,195 --> 00:58:07,895 So you're thinking indoor versus outdoor, 1266 00:58:08,035 --> 00:58:11,335 No outdoor turf, but like one, like a one stadium kind 1267 00:58:11,335 --> 00:58:12,335 of application, right? 1268 00:58:12,335 --> 00:58:16,415 Like what are we excluding that ever from happening 1269 00:58:18,515 --> 00:58:20,695 if we, if we don't even grant it 1270 00:58:20,695 --> 00:58:22,375 as a special use that we'll consider. 1271 00:58:25,885 --> 00:58:27,375 Yeah. So we can revisit that. 1272 00:58:27,495 --> 00:58:29,775 I think the key then is that we've gotta think about 1273 00:58:29,775 --> 00:58:31,615 how we define that use differently from 1274 00:58:32,385 --> 00:58:35,015 eight soccer fields all stacked next to each other, right? 1275 00:58:35,015 --> 00:58:36,975 Right. So if something small 1276 00:58:37,035 --> 00:58:38,575 or a single use, we could work on a 1277 00:58:38,575 --> 00:58:39,855 definition that allows for that. 1278 00:58:40,795 --> 00:58:43,415 That's different from big, you know, 1279 00:58:43,555 --> 00:58:45,535 20 acre complex kind of thing. 1280 00:58:49,625 --> 00:58:50,725 So consider that one. 1281 00:58:50,905 --> 00:58:53,205 We will come back with some options for that next time too. 1282 00:58:53,585 --> 00:58:54,845 I'm thinking like Topgolf 1283 00:58:54,845 --> 00:58:57,805 and things like that too, like I don't know that the, 1284 00:58:58,465 --> 00:59:01,245 the big wide open space is the only way these things are 1285 00:59:01,245 --> 00:59:02,845 gonna exist going forward, right? 1286 00:59:08,235 --> 00:59:10,445 Yeah. So I I think that the, the challenge in both 1287 00:59:10,445 --> 00:59:11,645 of those is to Jodi's point about 1288 00:59:11,885 --> 00:59:13,605 how you use really limited space, right? 1289 00:59:13,705 --> 00:59:18,165 So, so 85% of the Township is rural residential 1290 00:59:18,225 --> 00:59:20,485 and neighborhood residential and ag. 1291 00:59:20,945 --> 00:59:24,045 So you're got a really small amount of space to work with. 1292 00:59:24,865 --> 00:59:28,205 So the, the question is on those like large space intensive 1293 00:59:28,475 --> 00:59:32,605 uses like that, do you want to allow those to take up 1294 00:59:32,605 --> 00:59:34,925 that really sort of valuable space that could go 1295 00:59:34,925 --> 00:59:36,605 to the mixed use development you're looking for. 1296 00:59:37,265 --> 00:59:38,965 That's kind of the, the, the balance 1297 00:59:38,965 --> 00:59:40,965 that you've gotta wrestle with, with those things. 1298 00:59:43,195 --> 00:59:46,375 But I mean also if we, if we just are saying that no, 1299 00:59:46,375 --> 00:59:48,375 there's nowhere we can put soccer fields in the 1300 00:59:48,375 --> 00:59:49,695 Township, that's not okay either. 1301 00:59:50,075 --> 00:59:51,375 No. That, that's not what we're saying. 1302 00:59:52,275 --> 00:59:54,335 So there, there were options for outdoor recreation. 1303 00:59:54,335 --> 00:59:57,335 Those public spaces in all 1304 00:59:57,335 --> 00:59:58,935 of your re rec residential 1305 00:59:59,135 --> 01:00:00,215 districts, they just aren't private. 1306 01:00:00,875 --> 01:00:04,095 But those are pretty small area of the Township. Right. 1307 01:00:04,605 --> 01:00:06,015 That don't have open area 1308 01:00:06,015 --> 01:00:07,655 where you could build something like that. 1309 01:00:09,965 --> 01:00:12,705 So like the public parks is a permitted use, 1310 01:00:12,785 --> 01:00:14,065 I think in our rural residential. 1311 01:00:14,155 --> 01:00:18,105 Right. So that's, you know, 60% of the Township 1312 01:00:18,905 --> 01:00:20,335 where those things could be added. 1313 01:00:20,395 --> 01:00:22,495 If it's a public use versus a private one. 1314 01:00:23,495 --> 01:00:24,695 I think that the public use 1315 01:00:24,695 --> 01:00:27,895 Is, but why would we wanna prohibit private sports in 1316 01:00:27,915 --> 01:00:28,935 our Township? 1317 01:00:30,625 --> 01:00:33,275 They just tend to create more traffic. Right? 1318 01:00:33,335 --> 01:00:36,515 So you get, there's, you have more sort of external 1319 01:00:37,305 --> 01:00:40,555 traffic impacts and issues that, that come off of those 1320 01:00:40,555 --> 01:00:43,115 because they tend to be super intensive weekend events 1321 01:00:43,975 --> 01:00:46,875 or nights and there's just more of that happening. 1322 01:00:46,875 --> 01:00:50,515 Whereas if it's a public complex, it's a little, they tend 1323 01:00:50,515 --> 01:00:52,075 to be less focused on, you know, 1324 01:00:52,085 --> 01:00:53,475 maximizing usage and profit. 1325 01:00:57,725 --> 01:01:00,305 Is that new sports development on Drake Road 1326 01:01:00,305 --> 01:01:02,305 that's under construction right now, is 1327 01:01:02,305 --> 01:01:03,625 that gonna be public or private? 1328 01:01:04,545 --> 01:01:07,105 I think it's private. It's a non-profit owned 1329 01:01:07,125 --> 01:01:08,745 by the authority. 1330 01:01:09,415 --> 01:01:14,105 Okay. So we, we can dig into 1331 01:01:14,105 --> 01:01:15,705 that a little further and look at some examples 1332 01:01:15,765 --> 01:01:18,145 for you next time and think about what are some options 1333 01:01:18,165 --> 01:01:20,745 for us to permit that, that, that is a really tricky one. 1334 01:01:20,865 --> 01:01:22,065 'cause it's evolving all the time. 1335 01:01:22,115 --> 01:01:24,145 There are these different uses that are popping up, 1336 01:01:24,145 --> 01:01:25,225 right? Pickleball, 1337 01:01:25,595 --> 01:01:28,465 Right, That, that pop up all the time. 1338 01:01:28,815 --> 01:01:33,425 That I think the, the, the downside on those that we want 1339 01:01:33,425 --> 01:01:37,825 to be cautious of is they also have a tendency 1340 01:01:37,825 --> 01:01:39,305 to be sort of a flash in the pan. 1341 01:01:40,325 --> 01:01:43,345 And so if they are gonna be, if we are gonna have land go 1342 01:01:43,345 --> 01:01:44,865 that way, can it be repurposed 1343 01:01:44,865 --> 01:01:47,105 or easily reused is one of the questions. 1344 01:01:49,125 --> 01:01:51,345 Now pickleball may be here to live, stay who, who knows? 1345 01:01:52,745 --> 01:01:54,385 I mean, I guess I'd rather have, you know, 1346 01:01:54,385 --> 01:01:57,625 30 soccer fields than a, a battery storage facility. 1347 01:01:57,625 --> 01:02:00,945 Right? So like, but if we make it completely prohibited 1348 01:02:00,965 --> 01:02:03,185 for one and not the other, like, I don't know. 1349 01:02:03,655 --> 01:02:04,745 Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying we're, 1350 01:02:04,845 --> 01:02:05,845 It feels icky. 1351 01:02:06,215 --> 01:02:07,225 Yeah. So I, no, 1352 01:02:07,225 --> 01:02:08,385 There's not enough soccer fields, 1353 01:02:08,385 --> 01:02:10,185 there's not enough hockey ice, there's not enough. 1354 01:02:10,185 --> 01:02:12,625 All these things in our area for the number of kids 1355 01:02:12,625 --> 01:02:15,265 that are doing it, but then we don't want it here. 1356 01:02:15,735 --> 01:02:18,825 Yeah, that's fair. 1357 01:02:19,935 --> 01:02:21,195 We can look at some options for you. 1358 01:02:25,865 --> 01:02:27,235 Alright, thank you all very much. 1359 01:02:27,235 --> 01:02:28,635 We appreciate your time tonight. 1360 01:02:28,635 --> 01:02:30,675 We'll look forward to seeing you on the 22nd. 1361 01:02:31,645 --> 01:02:34,955 Thank you. Alright, moving on. 1362 01:02:35,265 --> 01:02:36,275 Item number six, 1363 01:02:36,275 --> 01:02:38,595 another work item on environmental Protection 1364 01:02:38,595 --> 01:02:39,635 Ordinance amendments. 1365 01:02:41,245 --> 01:02:43,195 Who's leading the charge on this one? 1366 01:02:45,745 --> 01:02:48,535 Yours truly. Oh boy. 1367 01:03:15,765 --> 01:03:18,625 All right, good evening. We're gonna continue the 1368 01:03:18,625 --> 01:03:23,065 conversation about the Environmental Protection ordinances 1369 01:03:23,485 --> 01:03:27,425 and some of the, all the pieces we've pulled together 1370 01:03:27,725 --> 01:03:28,745 as part of this project. 1371 01:03:30,165 --> 01:03:33,185 We were here about two months ago talking through this, 1372 01:03:33,585 --> 01:03:34,945 introducing it to the planning commission. 1373 01:03:35,645 --> 01:03:36,985 So this is again, just another 1374 01:03:37,595 --> 01:03:40,105 piece we're giving you guys since you're working on so much 1375 01:03:40,125 --> 01:03:43,105 and we're trying to make it digestible. 1376 01:03:43,245 --> 01:03:45,825 So this is coming from a few different places. 1377 01:03:46,625 --> 01:03:49,665 The townships in the city of Kalamazoo entered, 1378 01:03:49,775 --> 01:03:51,065 entered into a new waste 1379 01:03:51,205 --> 01:03:54,465 or a new water service contract a few years ago. 1380 01:03:54,485 --> 01:03:56,065 And one of those requirements was 1381 01:03:56,065 --> 01:03:59,105 that we adopt wellhead protection ordinances 1382 01:03:59,245 --> 01:04:02,985 and performance standards similar to the zoning ordinance. 1383 01:04:02,985 --> 01:04:04,705 We realized there was a lot of opportunities 1384 01:04:06,095 --> 01:04:07,745 between both our zoning ordinance 1385 01:04:07,745 --> 01:04:12,345 and our general ordinance to review them, consolidate them, 1386 01:04:13,765 --> 01:04:16,105 and make sure they were clear about where you were headed. 1387 01:04:16,175 --> 01:04:19,465 Kind of to, to the point earlier about sometimes you go 1388 01:04:19,465 --> 01:04:21,225 to one section, it leads you to another section, 1389 01:04:21,225 --> 01:04:22,505 then it leads you to another section. 1390 01:04:23,765 --> 01:04:26,385 And some of the way in particular the environmental 1391 01:04:26,385 --> 01:04:28,425 ordinances were set up was 1392 01:04:28,425 --> 01:04:31,425 that they could apply depending on 1393 01:04:31,425 --> 01:04:34,105 what development tool you were using or zoning. 1394 01:04:34,725 --> 01:04:38,585 And then the zoning next door might have been the same, 1395 01:04:38,585 --> 01:04:39,905 but they weren't using the same tool 1396 01:04:41,045 --> 01:04:42,105 or it was a different zoning 1397 01:04:42,165 --> 01:04:45,305 and then the standards didn't apply. 1398 01:04:45,925 --> 01:04:47,065 So again, we're trying 1399 01:04:47,065 --> 01:04:50,185 to make this much more unified across the Township. 1400 01:04:51,405 --> 01:04:54,665 And a lot of the, the great information and work that was 1401 01:04:54,905 --> 01:04:56,905 provided through the Wellhead Protection Ordinance 1402 01:04:57,565 --> 01:04:59,865 and performance standards really get at the core 1403 01:04:59,865 --> 01:05:02,945 of protecting the groundwater so we could apply them 1404 01:05:03,005 --> 01:05:04,465 to stormwater management 1405 01:05:04,465 --> 01:05:06,345 and groundwater protection, again, 1406 01:05:06,345 --> 01:05:07,745 across the entire Township. 1407 01:05:09,045 --> 01:05:13,625 And these goals, this theme, this value 1408 01:05:13,845 --> 01:05:18,285 of environmental protection stewardship has been a theme 1409 01:05:18,285 --> 01:05:20,725 through multiple plans for many, many years 1410 01:05:21,525 --> 01:05:23,565 and many of the projects that the Township does. 1411 01:05:23,705 --> 01:05:26,405 So it's kind of a legacy goal that we wanna make sure 1412 01:05:26,405 --> 01:05:30,685 that we continue to leverage and incorporate as we can. 1413 01:05:32,295 --> 01:05:33,395 We explained it last time, 1414 01:05:33,415 --> 01:05:35,755 but just to reiterate that a lot 1415 01:05:35,995 --> 01:05:38,715 of these are in existing zoning ordinances. 1416 01:05:38,855 --> 01:05:41,355 We are going to move them to the general ordinance. 1417 01:05:41,415 --> 01:05:45,395 So again, they're applied across the entire Township 1418 01:05:45,895 --> 01:05:47,595 and less focused just on the zoning 1419 01:05:47,705 --> 01:05:49,435 type and more on the risk. 1420 01:05:50,145 --> 01:05:54,275 However, there's a few people up here who have been a part 1421 01:05:54,275 --> 01:05:56,515 of these, this body for a while, 1422 01:05:56,535 --> 01:05:58,595 and you probably remember when they were put into the, 1423 01:05:58,695 --> 01:05:59,755 the zoning ordinance. 1424 01:06:00,255 --> 01:06:04,275 And so we wanna still have these discussions 1425 01:06:04,275 --> 01:06:06,635 with the planning commission because they are still a part 1426 01:06:06,635 --> 01:06:08,035 of the site plan, review process 1427 01:06:08,175 --> 01:06:09,195 and the development process. 1428 01:06:09,535 --> 01:06:12,035 So you will see a lot of these 1429 01:06:13,755 --> 01:06:17,195 requirements and standards come back through staff reports 1430 01:06:17,855 --> 01:06:20,155 and make sure they, you know, compliment 1431 01:06:20,155 --> 01:06:22,795 and work with the other zoning changes we're making. 1432 01:06:23,575 --> 01:06:26,995 So this will go to the Township board for adoption, 1433 01:06:27,015 --> 01:06:28,755 but we are starting with the planning commission. 1434 01:06:31,135 --> 01:06:34,355 Our hope is that you guys can give us a lens of making sure 1435 01:06:34,355 --> 01:06:37,035 that we're incorporating the comprehensive plan 1436 01:06:37,935 --> 01:06:40,795 and that it's still clear enough as you're going 1437 01:06:40,795 --> 01:06:41,875 through the development process. 1438 01:06:42,215 --> 01:06:44,315 You know, some of the examples you can draw on from, 1439 01:06:44,585 --> 01:06:47,195 from sitting up there and reviewing projects that it's, 1440 01:06:47,375 --> 01:06:50,515 you know, clear to somebody who has to implement it 1441 01:06:50,615 --> 01:06:53,075 and review it and decide if it meets the intent. 1442 01:06:53,575 --> 01:06:57,035 And then still, again, I'm struggling with the word 1443 01:06:57,595 --> 01:07:00,155 flexible lately because I don't want that to seem as, 1444 01:07:00,335 --> 01:07:03,115 you know, somebody's being, you know, 1445 01:07:03,115 --> 01:07:04,315 course to do something different. 1446 01:07:04,315 --> 01:07:06,915 There's has to be in the ordinance how 1447 01:07:06,915 --> 01:07:08,795 that flexibility is allowed. 1448 01:07:09,175 --> 01:07:12,195 But what flexibility does is it gives us the ability 1449 01:07:12,255 --> 01:07:16,555 to look at different areas of the Township, different sites 1450 01:07:16,555 --> 01:07:18,395 where topography might be challenging, 1451 01:07:18,445 --> 01:07:20,115 where soils might be challenging 1452 01:07:21,575 --> 01:07:24,435 and still apply these standards than in a different way. 1453 01:07:24,695 --> 01:07:26,315 So still meet that same standard, 1454 01:07:26,535 --> 01:07:28,915 but how can we do it depending on the conditions. 1455 01:07:30,735 --> 01:07:32,435 And last time when I was here, we went 1456 01:07:32,435 --> 01:07:36,835 through Article one 60, which was the intent in the packet. 1457 01:07:36,835 --> 01:07:38,795 There's a version two of that already. 1458 01:07:39,575 --> 01:07:41,635 So we took the feedback we got, we have met 1459 01:07:41,635 --> 01:07:44,675 with a few more partners, you know, 1460 01:07:44,675 --> 01:07:46,595 to just keep refining some of these things. 1461 01:07:47,375 --> 01:07:51,635 And again, some of this is derived from outside partners 1462 01:07:51,635 --> 01:07:55,975 where we have to take the time 1463 01:07:56,035 --> 01:07:57,535 to explain to them how 1464 01:07:58,535 --> 01:08:00,015 a Township might be different than a city 1465 01:08:00,995 --> 01:08:03,015 in particular the performance standards. 1466 01:08:03,075 --> 01:08:06,095 So there's still some work on that that we're doing. 1467 01:08:07,395 --> 01:08:10,055 As I mentioned at the very beginning, this water contract 1468 01:08:10,055 --> 01:08:14,255 that we're a part of now, it has a body to 1469 01:08:15,715 --> 01:08:19,625 administer and oversee that contract called the UPC. 1470 01:08:20,175 --> 01:08:22,905 They have initiated a user group, 1471 01:08:23,455 --> 01:08:24,985 technical staff from the city, 1472 01:08:25,295 --> 01:08:29,145 technical staff from the Township so that we can continue 1473 01:08:29,145 --> 01:08:32,865 to work through these, the Wellhead Protection Ordinance 1474 01:08:33,005 --> 01:08:35,665 and the performance standards, again to make sure 1475 01:08:35,665 --> 01:08:38,825 that it's applicable to both agents, both types of agencies. 1476 01:08:39,765 --> 01:08:41,945 So that work is about to start in October. 1477 01:08:45,965 --> 01:08:48,465 So based on how it's set up in the packet, 1478 01:08:48,565 --> 01:08:51,545 I'm actually gonna jump to Article one 60 and 1 62 1479 01:08:51,645 --> 01:08:56,525 and we'll get back to articles 2 53 1480 01:08:56,625 --> 01:08:57,845 and 56, just 1481 01:08:57,845 --> 01:08:59,845 because a lot of that will explain 1482 01:08:59,865 --> 01:09:01,205 itself as we go through this. 1483 01:09:01,325 --> 01:09:04,805 A lot of it's moving it again from those zoning ordinances 1484 01:09:06,145 --> 01:09:09,205 to these general ordinances of environmental protection. 1485 01:09:10,745 --> 01:09:13,325 So some things I wanted to highlight, 1486 01:09:13,485 --> 01:09:16,805 I think Leanna did a great job of all her color coding 1487 01:09:17,025 --> 01:09:19,325 and explaining what all that meant. 1488 01:09:19,345 --> 01:09:22,045 So again, what it really shows is that a lot 1489 01:09:22,045 --> 01:09:24,325 of this is in our existing ordinances. 1490 01:09:24,325 --> 01:09:28,525 Everything that's in black text is all existing. 1491 01:09:28,575 --> 01:09:30,445 We're just moving it to a different place. 1492 01:09:31,545 --> 01:09:36,365 The purple-ish is kind of from the first version 1493 01:09:36,505 --> 01:09:39,005 and then the red is new stuff, which really only applies 1494 01:09:39,005 --> 01:09:41,085 to one 60 at this point, 1495 01:09:41,185 --> 01:09:44,525 but will be the same methodology we use as we go forward. 1496 01:09:44,745 --> 01:09:49,245 So 1 61 starts 1497 01:09:49,825 --> 01:09:54,405 on packet, page 60, 1498 01:09:56,665 --> 01:09:59,165 I'm not gonna go through line by line, 1499 01:09:59,165 --> 01:10:02,085 but there are some things I wanted to highlight mostly 1500 01:10:02,085 --> 01:10:04,285 because it came up a little bit from the last time we went 1501 01:10:04,285 --> 01:10:08,125 through this about administrative departures 1502 01:10:08,125 --> 01:10:11,445 and how much authority 1503 01:10:11,585 --> 01:10:15,245 or latitude staff has versus a governing body. 1504 01:10:15,425 --> 01:10:19,985 So the administrative departures 1505 01:10:20,435 --> 01:10:23,185 would occur through the site plan development process, 1506 01:10:23,445 --> 01:10:26,865 but it is not an, you know, get out a free jail, 1507 01:10:27,445 --> 01:10:29,625 get outta jail free card that, you know, Jodi 1508 01:10:29,645 --> 01:10:31,665 and I have in our back pocket we can give to somebody 1509 01:10:31,665 --> 01:10:33,865 that still comes to the planning commission. 1510 01:10:34,575 --> 01:10:37,865 It's just meant to make the process not as cumbersome 1511 01:10:37,885 --> 01:10:40,305 or iterative so that we can work through that as we get 1512 01:10:40,305 --> 01:10:41,345 through the entire site 1513 01:10:41,565 --> 01:10:43,745 and we're looking at all these different standards 1514 01:10:44,485 --> 01:10:47,905 and then come to whatever the appropriate body is, 1515 01:10:47,905 --> 01:10:49,545 the zoning board of appeals, the planning commission 1516 01:10:49,545 --> 01:10:51,505 or the Township board for their 1517 01:10:51,525 --> 01:10:53,225 actual approval of a site plan. 1518 01:10:53,325 --> 01:10:55,305 So just wanted to clarify that. 1519 01:10:57,565 --> 01:11:01,655 In the case of stormwater management, it works well 1520 01:11:01,655 --> 01:11:03,135 because we're, we're working 1521 01:11:03,165 --> 01:11:07,575 with very mathematical things here, so we have to set, 1522 01:11:08,715 --> 01:11:10,255 we have the same standard for everybody. 1523 01:11:10,315 --> 01:11:11,455 But again, how you add 1524 01:11:11,455 --> 01:11:15,005 that up might be different based on each project. 1525 01:11:15,865 --> 01:11:18,885 So I'm gonna use the example 1526 01:11:19,265 --> 01:11:20,925 of the design event 1527 01:11:20,985 --> 01:11:24,635 and capacity, which is on packet page 61. 1528 01:11:26,435 --> 01:11:26,655 And 1529 01:11:34,165 --> 01:11:36,095 There's not many places in Michigan 1530 01:11:36,095 --> 01:11:38,175 that require a hundred year storm event 1531 01:11:38,195 --> 01:11:39,855 to be accommodated on your site. 1532 01:11:39,995 --> 01:11:41,975 But lucky us, we are one of them. 1533 01:11:43,515 --> 01:11:47,355 It does work in some cases very well, some parts 1534 01:11:47,355 --> 01:11:50,915 of Omo have very sandy soils, so it's not as challenging, 1535 01:11:53,135 --> 01:11:55,835 but it does get cha more challenging if you have 1536 01:11:56,505 --> 01:11:57,835 less favorable soils 1537 01:11:57,975 --> 01:12:00,635 or if you're the last site in an area to develop, 1538 01:12:00,635 --> 01:12:03,475 because then you're really landlocked on either side of, 1539 01:12:03,475 --> 01:12:07,035 of all your boundaries, you can't do a lot of grading, 1540 01:12:07,215 --> 01:12:09,035 you know, it's, it's a lot more challenging to do. 1541 01:12:09,215 --> 01:12:12,995 So the thought process here with this, 1542 01:12:13,655 --> 01:12:15,715 an administrative departure here is that 1543 01:12:17,215 --> 01:12:19,835 you would still have to meet the same requirements 1544 01:12:19,895 --> 01:12:20,955 for a hundred year storm. 1545 01:12:21,065 --> 01:12:22,915 It's mostly in a volume sense, 1546 01:12:24,055 --> 01:12:26,275 but we could start to give credits for people 1547 01:12:26,335 --> 01:12:28,915 who meet the other goals of our master plan 1548 01:12:28,915 --> 01:12:30,595 and our community's vision. 1549 01:12:30,855 --> 01:12:34,115 So if you do some low impact development, 1550 01:12:34,415 --> 01:12:36,555 you might know them as rain gardens 1551 01:12:36,575 --> 01:12:38,755 or bioswales where there is a benefit 1552 01:12:38,785 --> 01:12:42,995 because you're improving the water quality, then 1553 01:12:42,995 --> 01:12:46,275 that could work towards how much you have 1554 01:12:46,275 --> 01:12:47,875 to retain in a pond. 1555 01:12:50,055 --> 01:12:53,155 The example that I was thinking of earlier is we used 1556 01:12:53,155 --> 01:12:56,395 to do this with some of our parking 1557 01:12:56,495 --> 01:12:57,755 and our access management. 1558 01:12:57,775 --> 01:12:59,915 So if you provided a single access point 1559 01:12:59,935 --> 01:13:02,595 or shared parking, then you could have reductions in 1560 01:13:04,015 --> 01:13:06,075 or you could be allowed more parking spaces. 1561 01:13:06,075 --> 01:13:10,875 That's when we had parking maximum or yeah, maximums. 1562 01:13:12,095 --> 01:13:13,715 So it's that same kind of thing, you know, 1563 01:13:13,715 --> 01:13:15,995 but we still again, have to meet the same, we have 1564 01:13:15,995 --> 01:13:19,475 to have a measurable way to get to the same criteria. 1565 01:13:21,675 --> 01:13:23,095 And we do have to work on that language 1566 01:13:23,095 --> 01:13:28,035 because we did talk through this with Attorney Porter about 1567 01:13:28,035 --> 01:13:31,195 how we wanna make sure it's very clear that we can point 1568 01:13:31,195 --> 01:13:34,595 to a spot and say, these were the outlines criteria, this is 1569 01:13:34,615 --> 01:13:36,035 how it maths out. 1570 01:13:36,455 --> 01:13:38,475 And so that we know we're treating everybody fairly. 1571 01:13:39,775 --> 01:13:42,075 And I just have one quick, it's kind of a clerical 1572 01:13:43,075 --> 01:13:45,835 question, I guess it refers to Township engineer. 1573 01:13:47,615 --> 01:13:48,615 Is that you? 1574 01:13:49,755 --> 01:13:51,235 I am an engineer at the Township. 1575 01:13:51,515 --> 01:13:54,555 Our Township engineer is technically Sharon Loam, 1576 01:13:54,775 --> 01:13:57,155 and she is the one doing all the site plan 1577 01:13:57,155 --> 01:13:58,555 reviews for public works now. 1578 01:13:58,935 --> 01:14:01,955 So it was a position that started about two years ago. Okay. 1579 01:14:02,655 --> 01:14:04,635 So that is a specific position we have. 1580 01:14:05,455 --> 01:14:05,875 Thanks. 1581 01:14:12,615 --> 01:14:14,435 All right, well that was one section I felt like 1582 01:14:17,525 --> 01:14:18,555 again could really help. 1583 01:14:18,745 --> 01:14:20,555 There's a little bit more of an example 1584 01:14:20,555 --> 01:14:23,115 that you could apply it to and understand. 1585 01:14:23,255 --> 01:14:27,195 We have sites right now that, you know, 1586 01:14:27,215 --> 01:14:29,235 on West Main Street you're buying 10 acres, 1587 01:14:29,235 --> 01:14:31,675 which is very expensive land 1588 01:14:32,015 --> 01:14:34,755 and half of it has to go to a storm water pond. 1589 01:14:36,375 --> 01:14:38,355 And if we could incorporate some other, 1590 01:14:39,655 --> 01:14:42,065 like was mentioned earlier, incentives for people 1591 01:14:42,165 --> 01:14:43,385 to do green roofs 1592 01:14:43,605 --> 01:14:45,825 or, you know, make sure 1593 01:14:45,825 --> 01:14:48,705 that they have green throughout their big, big parking lot. 1594 01:14:49,635 --> 01:14:52,025 Again, it meets a lot of the community's goals for 1595 01:14:52,045 --> 01:14:54,705 how we want things to look, how we want them to be, 1596 01:14:56,855 --> 01:14:58,515 you know, environmentally sensitive 1597 01:14:58,615 --> 01:15:01,515 and good for the cleaning the air 1598 01:15:01,655 --> 01:15:03,155 and protecting our groundwater. 1599 01:15:03,855 --> 01:15:06,755 So we have to provide a balance for everybody to do that. 1600 01:15:08,215 --> 01:15:10,315 And so this is one way we can do that. But 1601 01:15:12,195 --> 01:15:14,605 Anna, we, 1602 01:15:14,785 --> 01:15:17,365 we are growing into a very sophisticated 1603 01:15:18,365 --> 01:15:20,085 Township operation. 1604 01:15:20,785 --> 01:15:25,355 We have professionals, we have professionals that we're, 1605 01:15:25,355 --> 01:15:30,315 we're it's time to grow into trust to those professionals. 1606 01:15:31,215 --> 01:15:34,075 Not, not to send you off to be at risk, 1607 01:15:34,735 --> 01:15:39,275 but to be able to get these pieces of work done. 1608 01:15:40,295 --> 01:15:43,925 And if somebody doesn't like your response 1609 01:15:44,665 --> 01:15:47,085 or the the committee's response 1610 01:15:47,235 --> 01:15:51,445 that in some cases is being created, then there, there needs 1611 01:15:51,445 --> 01:15:54,245 to be maybe a way to proceed beyond that. 1612 01:15:54,865 --> 01:15:58,405 But to have to have everything come here 1613 01:15:59,215 --> 01:16:00,945 just isn't realistic. 1614 01:16:00,985 --> 01:16:01,985 I don't think 1615 01:16:02,865 --> 01:16:03,865 So. 1616 01:16:03,865 --> 01:16:05,245 Well, have you ever looked at a hydro CAD model? 1617 01:16:05,245 --> 01:16:07,125 Because it's really interesting. 1618 01:16:07,265 --> 01:16:08,405 That's what we do and, 1619 01:16:08,425 --> 01:16:10,845 and again, it is some of this just like very technical 1620 01:16:11,305 --> 01:16:13,725 things that again, if the planning commission's, 1621 01:16:13,725 --> 01:16:16,205 setting the policy around what you want the community 1622 01:16:16,225 --> 01:16:18,765 to look like, you know, 1623 01:16:18,765 --> 01:16:20,645 and we have these conversations about what the, 1624 01:16:20,745 --> 01:16:23,805 the goalposts are, you know, we can make sure that we, 1625 01:16:23,985 --> 01:16:28,085 we fit in between those from a engineering standpoint. 1626 01:16:29,125 --> 01:16:33,265 So yeah, there's, I to your point, Scott, 1627 01:16:33,265 --> 01:16:35,545 that's why I don't want flexibility to be kind 1628 01:16:35,545 --> 01:16:38,905 of a dirty word because again, it's within these guardrails 1629 01:16:38,905 --> 01:16:41,505 that, you know, the different bodies have set in the 1630 01:16:41,505 --> 01:16:43,705 priorities that the community has shared with us. 1631 01:16:43,885 --> 01:16:47,305 So that is our charge then to make sure 1632 01:16:47,305 --> 01:16:49,685 that we do that. 1633 01:16:49,745 --> 01:16:54,695 And it, yeah, and we do that 1634 01:16:54,715 --> 01:16:57,295 and we sometimes have developers that don't love that we do 1635 01:16:57,295 --> 01:17:01,865 that, but we, we got the ordinances, 1636 01:17:01,925 --> 01:17:04,065 we got the plans, we're gonna follow him. 1637 01:17:04,205 --> 01:17:08,955 So, all right. 1638 01:17:09,735 --> 01:17:14,115 The other thing that I wanted to highlight was so 1639 01:17:14,115 --> 01:17:16,275 that I went through that one administrative departure. 1640 01:17:17,015 --> 01:17:18,235 The same can be applied 1641 01:17:18,255 --> 01:17:19,875 for the different sections they're in. 1642 01:17:19,875 --> 01:17:21,795 Each one of 'em, I think there's five total. 1643 01:17:22,855 --> 01:17:25,315 So that's really what we mean by some of that. 1644 01:17:27,765 --> 01:17:30,555 There are again, still some things that we've been having 1645 01:17:30,655 --> 01:17:33,155 to talk through and staff with staff. 1646 01:17:33,975 --> 01:17:36,275 One example is that we require basins 1647 01:17:36,275 --> 01:17:40,355 and four bases to not be geometric and we say square 1648 01:17:40,415 --> 01:17:43,595 or rectangular, but even a circle is technically a shape. 1649 01:17:43,695 --> 01:17:44,875 So like what else are you supposed 1650 01:17:44,875 --> 01:17:46,555 to make it look like, you know? 1651 01:17:46,735 --> 01:17:50,795 So anyway, those are some things 1652 01:17:50,795 --> 01:17:52,635 that we gotta think about. 1653 01:17:52,935 --> 01:17:56,275 But I think one of the other big changes 1654 01:17:56,425 --> 01:18:00,155 that I'll mention under the storm water section is 1655 01:18:00,155 --> 01:18:03,315 that we currently don't have a great tool 1656 01:18:03,455 --> 01:18:06,795 or method for following up on ponds 1657 01:18:06,795 --> 01:18:08,515 that are clearly not functioning. 1658 01:18:08,615 --> 01:18:11,035 So when you look at a Google Earth image, 1659 01:18:11,335 --> 01:18:13,195 you could probably pick out which ones those are. 1660 01:18:13,895 --> 01:18:16,115 And so there's no way, we're not a, 1661 01:18:16,715 --> 01:18:18,915 a stormwater regulatory agency. 1662 01:18:18,915 --> 01:18:20,595 That's not what townships do. 1663 01:18:21,495 --> 01:18:22,795 But we do have to make sure 1664 01:18:23,075 --> 01:18:25,795 that people meet their site plan requirements, even if 1665 01:18:25,795 --> 01:18:27,195 that's 50 years down the road. 1666 01:18:28,375 --> 01:18:30,875 And so we talk about providing an agreement of 1667 01:18:30,875 --> 01:18:33,875 what your maintenance plan is gonna be for somebody 1668 01:18:33,875 --> 01:18:35,955 who just has a small pond, you know, 1669 01:18:35,975 --> 01:18:38,595 and that's just a, you know, little office building 1670 01:18:38,935 --> 01:18:40,075 that's probably not as 1671 01:18:45,905 --> 01:18:48,755 long or crazy or complicated of a maintenance plan. 1672 01:18:49,095 --> 01:18:51,835 But for somebody who has underground storage, for somebody 1673 01:18:51,895 --> 01:18:55,835 who has a very big pond next to 1674 01:18:56,775 --> 01:18:58,995 you know something that if it overflows could 1675 01:18:58,995 --> 01:19:00,035 be catastrophic. 1676 01:19:00,845 --> 01:19:03,075 Those are the types of things where we need to have a, 1677 01:19:03,075 --> 01:19:06,075 you know, those agreements reflect what the system is. 1678 01:19:07,575 --> 01:19:09,995 And so that will be something new. 1679 01:19:10,015 --> 01:19:13,155 We haven't required that before as part of our development. 1680 01:19:18,115 --> 01:19:21,245 Does anybody have any questions about anything in one 60? 1681 01:19:21,435 --> 01:19:22,435 Otherwise 1682 01:19:29,465 --> 01:19:30,625 I have a general question. 1683 01:19:31,565 --> 01:19:33,665 It it has to do with wellhead protection. 1684 01:19:34,105 --> 01:19:36,865 I don't know if it's our responsibility 1685 01:19:37,205 --> 01:19:39,625 or the water provider's responsibility, 1686 01:19:39,625 --> 01:19:43,025 but do we have a, a backflow prevention 1687 01:19:44,095 --> 01:19:47,785 requirement, even at residential level, A hose bib, 1688 01:19:48,325 --> 01:19:49,825 if you lay that hose out 1689 01:19:49,845 --> 01:19:51,385 and the water shuts down, 1690 01:19:52,685 --> 01:19:54,585 you're gonna pollute the water system. 1691 01:19:56,535 --> 01:19:58,785 Yeah, the, the thing about the water system is it, 1692 01:19:59,325 --> 01:20:03,565 you know, it's at all times usually 1693 01:20:05,155 --> 01:20:09,125 providing a CAPA pressure that would not warrant that. 1694 01:20:09,315 --> 01:20:11,005 It's situations where that 1695 01:20:13,285 --> 01:20:17,525 capacity might change that would induce those opportunities 1696 01:20:17,825 --> 01:20:21,125 for it to exchange, you know, something 1697 01:20:21,125 --> 01:20:23,205 that's usually pushing out water out your faucet 1698 01:20:23,505 --> 01:20:24,565 for it to come back in. 1699 01:20:25,345 --> 01:20:28,925 So hydrant flushing is an example of one of those times 1700 01:20:29,725 --> 01:20:32,085 a water main break, another one of those times. 1701 01:20:33,785 --> 01:20:37,405 So it doesn't happen on the residential side very often 1702 01:20:37,545 --> 01:20:39,125 and it, when it does, it's in a very 1703 01:20:39,125 --> 01:20:41,745 controlled regulated way. 1704 01:20:41,965 --> 01:20:44,505 So when there is a water main break they have to do, 1705 01:20:45,215 --> 01:20:48,385 there's a certain process for notifying people, 1706 01:20:48,385 --> 01:20:50,385 testing the water, getting it back online 1707 01:20:50,485 --> 01:20:53,025 to prevent the system from being affected. 1708 01:20:54,195 --> 01:20:58,835 Commercial type settings mostly, especially those ones 1709 01:20:58,835 --> 01:21:00,555 with sprinklers, they all are required 1710 01:21:00,555 --> 01:21:02,195 to have backflow preventers a, 1711 01:21:02,675 --> 01:21:04,995 a service over a certain size is required 1712 01:21:04,995 --> 01:21:06,395 to have a backflow preventer 1713 01:21:06,735 --> 01:21:09,115 and you're required to get that tested annually 1714 01:21:09,495 --> 01:21:12,555 and submit those to the city water system. 1715 01:21:13,575 --> 01:21:17,675 So there are definitely layers of how we protect that. 1716 01:21:17,775 --> 01:21:21,275 But yeah, services over a certain size are required 1717 01:21:21,295 --> 01:21:22,875 to have backflow preventers. 1718 01:21:35,115 --> 01:21:40,025 Okay, then I'm gonna go on to 1 62, 1719 01:21:40,195 --> 01:21:42,745 which is groundwater and wellhead protection. 1720 01:21:47,485 --> 01:21:50,285 I also happened to be the wellhead protection administrator. 1721 01:21:52,445 --> 01:21:57,105 I Not sure that I realized or that, 1722 01:21:57,325 --> 01:21:59,385 and even in the water agreement that we realized 1723 01:21:59,685 --> 01:22:02,345 how technical or advanced of a position that was gonna be 1724 01:22:02,445 --> 01:22:04,065 and what kind of risk it would carry. 1725 01:22:05,525 --> 01:22:06,745 So that is part of that. 1726 01:22:06,865 --> 01:22:08,585 I mentioned there's a group meeting between some 1727 01:22:08,585 --> 01:22:12,105 of the city staff and the Township staff out of the UPC 1728 01:22:13,055 --> 01:22:15,945 because the city has a wellhead administrator 1729 01:22:15,945 --> 01:22:17,545 that does this all day long. 1730 01:22:18,925 --> 01:22:21,945 And this is, she's very knowledgeable about all these 1731 01:22:21,945 --> 01:22:24,425 different things, all the different regulated substances, 1732 01:22:24,605 --> 01:22:26,705 all the per prevention measures. 1733 01:22:27,405 --> 01:22:29,825 So I think that is an opportunity that we could actually, 1734 01:22:31,305 --> 01:22:33,945 with our partners, just maybe think about it being one 1735 01:22:33,945 --> 01:22:36,385 person and not each individual Township having 1736 01:22:36,385 --> 01:22:37,745 to have their own wellhead administrator. 1737 01:22:37,825 --> 01:22:39,945 I think it would help with a lot of that consistency 1738 01:22:40,965 --> 01:22:44,025 and accuracy of implementing those performance standards. 1739 01:22:45,965 --> 01:22:49,385 But currently TMO has one and here I am. 1740 01:22:50,965 --> 01:22:54,065 And so the other big piece of this that we had to add, 1741 01:22:54,845 --> 01:22:59,065 I'm on page 67 of the packet, is again, that 1742 01:22:59,725 --> 01:23:02,105 it was very clear when we were just saying it's in these 1743 01:23:02,105 --> 01:23:05,025 time of concentration zones by our public wells. 1744 01:23:05,945 --> 01:23:08,085 We are trying to apply that Township wide. 1745 01:23:08,225 --> 01:23:09,765 So we really have had to go through this 1746 01:23:09,785 --> 01:23:12,285 and understand how we're gonna apply it that way. 1747 01:23:12,305 --> 01:23:15,965 And so we came up with this risk assessment 1748 01:23:18,435 --> 01:23:23,125 and tried 1749 01:23:23,125 --> 01:23:24,285 to make some charts to make it 1750 01:23:24,285 --> 01:23:25,525 a little bit easier to go through. 1751 01:23:25,545 --> 01:23:27,045 But essentially everybody's gonna have 1752 01:23:27,045 --> 01:23:29,725 to use the ordinances if they wanna develop in the Township. 1753 01:23:30,145 --> 01:23:32,765 If you're in a wellhead zone, pretty straightforward, 1754 01:23:32,945 --> 01:23:35,005 you gotta follow all the performance 1755 01:23:35,205 --> 01:23:36,925 standards in our ordinances. 1756 01:23:37,465 --> 01:23:41,965 If you're not in a wellhead capture zone, then 1757 01:23:42,945 --> 01:23:44,725 you can start to look at your type 1758 01:23:44,725 --> 01:23:46,125 of risk and your type of use. 1759 01:23:46,705 --> 01:23:49,445 And then whether you would just have to follow the, 1760 01:23:49,625 --> 01:23:51,685 the ordinances or if you will also have 1761 01:23:51,685 --> 01:23:53,765 to follow the performance standards. 1762 01:23:54,625 --> 01:23:58,575 So you might be in a low risk zoning, 1763 01:24:00,395 --> 01:24:01,575 but you get a special use 1764 01:24:01,635 --> 01:24:04,295 and you're doing kind of a higher risk use. 1765 01:24:04,635 --> 01:24:07,855 And so then that leads you, those are these, 1766 01:24:07,855 --> 01:24:09,535 these are the three tables we're using. 1767 01:24:09,875 --> 01:24:11,495 So you might be in a low risk zoning, 1768 01:24:11,915 --> 01:24:14,975 but you're doing a high risk activity or land use. 1769 01:24:15,155 --> 01:24:16,615 And so then that would trigger that 1770 01:24:17,125 --> 01:24:19,095 even though you're not in the wellhead capture zones, 1771 01:24:19,095 --> 01:24:21,175 you still have to follow the performance standards 1772 01:24:21,175 --> 01:24:22,935 because that's protecting groundwater 1773 01:24:25,375 --> 01:24:26,715 and it leads to a lot of 1774 01:24:26,715 --> 01:24:28,235 how you're gonna manage your storm water 1775 01:24:28,335 --> 01:24:30,555 and your other chemicals on site. 1776 01:24:32,695 --> 01:24:35,635 So in part of this table two, again, 1777 01:24:35,635 --> 01:24:36,675 we're getting this from the city, 1778 01:24:37,265 --> 01:24:38,835 they have a little bit different zone. 1779 01:24:38,945 --> 01:24:42,035 Like we had whatever, 20 categories, they have 40 1780 01:24:42,975 --> 01:24:45,715 and they are really not used to new developments. 1781 01:24:46,195 --> 01:24:50,715 I am learning. So they're very used to things being built up 1782 01:24:51,375 --> 01:24:53,835 or just built more in one solid area. 1783 01:24:54,055 --> 01:24:56,995 So that is some of why we have to work with them so 1784 01:24:56,995 --> 01:25:01,075 that it's applicable to different types of agencies, 1785 01:25:01,075 --> 01:25:02,315 different size agencies. 1786 01:25:04,015 --> 01:25:08,085 So for example, transportation under manufacturing. 1787 01:25:08,645 --> 01:25:12,325 I need some clarification on what they're trying to have 1788 01:25:12,325 --> 01:25:13,605 that be as a a use. 1789 01:25:15,775 --> 01:25:18,165 Again, in some cities you might have somebody who's doing 1790 01:25:18,165 --> 01:25:20,005 more like transportation, manufacturing, 1791 01:25:20,145 --> 01:25:21,965 are they building car engines? 1792 01:25:22,805 --> 01:25:24,525 I don't know that we're gonna have that in tmo, 1793 01:25:24,625 --> 01:25:27,285 but again, we just wanna understand what some of those are. 1794 01:25:27,465 --> 01:25:29,725 So we're still working through that with them. 1795 01:25:30,345 --> 01:25:32,845 But I think this methodology is the important part 1796 01:25:32,845 --> 01:25:34,925 that we want the planning commission to be aware of is 1797 01:25:35,285 --> 01:25:37,525 how we're trying to apply this 1798 01:25:38,065 --> 01:25:39,605 in various parts of the Township. 1799 01:25:39,635 --> 01:25:41,365 It's not just about zoning anymore, 1800 01:25:41,995 --> 01:25:45,635 it's really about the use as well and the activity. 1801 01:25:46,845 --> 01:25:49,655 When I looked through that in, just in light of 1802 01:25:49,655 --> 01:25:51,615 what you're saying, I, I questioned 1803 01:25:52,955 --> 01:25:55,935 ag being a low risk just 1804 01:25:55,935 --> 01:25:57,655 because of the amount of chemicals 1805 01:25:57,655 --> 01:25:58,975 that can be put on the ground. 1806 01:25:59,115 --> 01:26:02,855 And I know there's not a lot of wells yet in some 1807 01:26:02,855 --> 01:26:07,085 of these areas, but as we develop, there will need 1808 01:26:07,225 --> 01:26:08,565 to be more wells 1809 01:26:09,745 --> 01:26:12,765 and then they'll become right in that district where 1810 01:26:13,605 --> 01:26:15,725 whatever is in the ground 1811 01:26:16,785 --> 01:26:18,685 is bringing risk to the water. 1812 01:26:19,905 --> 01:26:22,325 The same thing, the same question I have is 1813 01:26:22,345 --> 01:26:24,765 for rural residential right now. 1814 01:26:25,255 --> 01:26:28,925 There are some cases where it's the wild west out there 1815 01:26:29,665 --> 01:26:33,365 and applying petroleum products to the ground 1816 01:26:33,865 --> 01:26:38,045 and using chemicals is, well I'm 1817 01:26:38,565 --> 01:26:41,405 a long ways from my neighbors, so what's the difference? 1818 01:26:42,805 --> 01:26:47,585 And and that also is more of a medium risk I think than, 1819 01:26:48,735 --> 01:26:51,905 than some of the other spaces where people are seeing 1820 01:26:52,015 --> 01:26:54,305 what is happening, you know? 1821 01:26:55,595 --> 01:26:59,285 Yeah. I think maybe Jodi or Jim could speak to this too, 1822 01:26:59,425 --> 01:27:03,085 but some of the protections that come with that type 1823 01:27:03,085 --> 01:27:05,445 of land use or zoning. 1824 01:27:05,795 --> 01:27:09,725 Yeah, there's already quite a, there's quite a lot 1825 01:27:09,725 --> 01:27:11,205 of regulations that would prohibit. 1826 01:27:11,915 --> 01:27:14,015 In other words, if somebody's dumping oil on their driveway 1827 01:27:14,015 --> 01:27:15,335 to keep the dust down, okay, 1828 01:27:15,335 --> 01:27:17,855 that's something my dad might have done 50 years ago today, 1829 01:27:17,975 --> 01:27:19,135 that's against the law. 1830 01:27:19,835 --> 01:27:21,175 So I think there are a lot of 1831 01:27:21,725 --> 01:27:23,615 regulations already in existence 1832 01:27:23,615 --> 01:27:26,295 that would hopefully tamp down that what they're trying 1833 01:27:26,295 --> 01:27:30,135 to do is at least segment out those that would be of 1834 01:27:30,755 --> 01:27:35,045 higher degree of risk to allow them to determine when 1835 01:27:35,045 --> 01:27:38,285 to impose a higher standard for for development. 1836 01:27:39,505 --> 01:27:43,385 So yeah, there's always that, trust me, 1837 01:27:43,445 --> 01:27:45,105 we had somebody that was 1838 01:27:45,825 --> 01:27:49,905 burying 50 gallon drums on their private property, storing 1839 01:27:52,595 --> 01:27:53,865 those type of activities. 1840 01:27:54,005 --> 01:27:57,335 You can't control through planning zoning 1841 01:27:57,555 --> 01:28:01,055 or even a, a, a well-regulated ordinance 1842 01:28:01,055 --> 01:28:04,535 because if people are literally, you know, 1843 01:28:05,955 --> 01:28:10,005 breaking the law to that degree, you, 1844 01:28:10,305 --> 01:28:11,485 you can't prepare for that. 1845 01:28:11,665 --> 01:28:12,845 You just have to be vigilant 1846 01:28:12,905 --> 01:28:15,725 and keep your eye on what's going on around out there. 1847 01:28:19,185 --> 01:28:22,845 Is that true of the ag applications as well? 1848 01:28:23,195 --> 01:28:25,565 Yeah, I'm not, given what I've read over the years, 1849 01:28:25,825 --> 01:28:28,285 I'm not concerned about most ag 1850 01:28:29,445 --> 01:28:31,405 o ag operations from this standpoint. 1851 01:28:32,085 --> 01:28:34,165 Farmers are, have a very hard time right 1852 01:28:34,165 --> 01:28:35,525 now making a living. 1853 01:28:36,275 --> 01:28:40,655 They are some of the most cautious 1854 01:28:40,835 --> 01:28:44,055 and frugal users of any type of fertilizer 1855 01:28:44,075 --> 01:28:46,215 or anything they use simply because of the cost. 1856 01:28:47,235 --> 01:28:48,815 And studies have shown that they're 1857 01:28:49,585 --> 01:28:53,595 typically very good stewards of the use of their property. 1858 01:28:54,135 --> 01:28:56,515 So Right. Typically it's maybe the thing I'm, and 1859 01:28:56,675 --> 01:28:59,235 You can't, the, the one offs, I don't know how to, 1860 01:28:59,435 --> 01:29:00,435 I don't know how to plan for that. 1861 01:29:00,905 --> 01:29:03,285 It is just like the guy that was burying 50 gallon drums. 1862 01:29:03,365 --> 01:29:04,925 I mean, how do you regulate against that? 1863 01:29:05,785 --> 01:29:09,085 If you just say that every residential use is a high risk? 1864 01:29:09,595 --> 01:29:12,245 Well, that's only true on the one-offs. 1865 01:29:12,475 --> 01:29:14,005 It's not true generally. 1866 01:29:14,185 --> 01:29:15,245 So you've gotta plan 1867 01:29:15,785 --> 01:29:18,325 and develop an ordinance based upon 1868 01:29:18,355 --> 01:29:22,545 what should be happening, recognizing that 1869 01:29:23,925 --> 01:29:26,425 the law already regulates a lot of activity 1870 01:29:27,255 --> 01:29:28,385 that you can't do. 1871 01:29:28,965 --> 01:29:31,105 And so you should be able to anticipate 1872 01:29:31,105 --> 01:29:32,785 and work that into your ordinance and, 1873 01:29:33,005 --> 01:29:37,505 and rely on that compliance that currently exists. 1874 01:29:38,295 --> 01:29:40,985 Otherwise you're trying to regulate against every 1875 01:29:42,635 --> 01:29:43,685 potential activity 1876 01:29:43,905 --> 01:29:46,365 and you can't, that's, that's what zoning's all about. 1877 01:29:46,365 --> 01:29:50,045 That's why zoning Euclid and zoning doesn't try to regulate 1878 01:29:50,065 --> 01:29:53,365 or specify every permitted use 1879 01:29:54,105 --> 01:29:56,965 or excuse, excuse me, every prohibited use. 1880 01:29:57,425 --> 01:29:59,165 It simply tells you what you can do 1881 01:29:59,975 --> 01:30:02,355 and that anything that's not permitted is prohibited. 1882 01:30:02,535 --> 01:30:03,675 That's how zoning works. 1883 01:30:04,155 --> 01:30:06,315 I have a hard time explaining that to the public sometimes 1884 01:30:06,315 --> 01:30:08,395 because they'll say, show me the ordinance 1885 01:30:08,395 --> 01:30:10,595 where it says I can't have, you know, 1886 01:30:10,835 --> 01:30:13,715 a corn picker in my front yard in R one zone. 1887 01:30:14,425 --> 01:30:16,075 Well it doesn't say that. 1888 01:30:17,045 --> 01:30:18,345 It says what you can do 1889 01:30:18,645 --> 01:30:20,585 and what you can do is all you can do 1890 01:30:20,685 --> 01:30:22,665 and what anything else is prohibited. 1891 01:30:22,805 --> 01:30:25,105 So we have to rely on that, that process. 1892 01:30:26,875 --> 01:30:28,955 Thank you. Yeah. 1893 01:30:29,205 --> 01:30:33,235 Would you consider adding like let's say 1894 01:30:33,945 --> 01:30:38,875 battery or data center or any kind of cool cycled cooling? 1895 01:30:39,555 --> 01:30:40,795 I didn't see that on your table. 1896 01:30:41,155 --> 01:30:45,715 Anywhere from nuclear power, whatever, any kind 1897 01:30:45,715 --> 01:30:50,515 of cooling cycling water activity of the high use, 1898 01:30:50,545 --> 01:30:51,595 high risk land use. 1899 01:30:52,905 --> 01:30:56,955 Well, we did add the principal use energy systems under 1900 01:30:56,955 --> 01:31:01,355 manufacturing as a high risk land use activity. 1901 01:31:03,015 --> 01:31:06,235 And then there is some in the definitions you'll see 1902 01:31:07,315 --> 01:31:10,875 'cause this came up with the city on just 1903 01:31:11,435 --> 01:31:14,995 a new development that has air conditioners on its roof. 1904 01:31:15,105 --> 01:31:18,875 Yeah. And just the amount of cooling in those triggered it 1905 01:31:18,895 --> 01:31:21,635 to be needing review and needing. 1906 01:31:21,635 --> 01:31:22,955 Right. A plan. So 1907 01:31:23,905 --> 01:31:26,435 that is much more defined in the performance standards. 1908 01:31:26,435 --> 01:31:27,675 If you read through that document, 1909 01:31:27,895 --> 01:31:29,355 it talks about those amounts. 1910 01:31:29,895 --> 01:31:32,995 So it's not gonna be your household air conditioner, 1911 01:31:33,015 --> 01:31:36,595 but it's over a certain amount that when those cooling 1912 01:31:37,815 --> 01:31:40,675 the, the chemicals that are added get to a certain amount. 1913 01:31:40,745 --> 01:31:43,475 Yeah. And that's all comes from like a manufacturer spec. 1914 01:31:43,475 --> 01:31:46,035 It'll say right in there how much it has to have. 1915 01:31:47,095 --> 01:31:48,195 So that's what I mean 1916 01:31:48,195 --> 01:31:50,395 by this is a very technical thing to get into. 1917 01:31:50,395 --> 01:31:54,355 Right. So having the city's, I don't know her title, 1918 01:31:54,455 --> 01:31:57,075 but their wellhead administrator doing some of this, 1919 01:31:57,275 --> 01:31:59,845 I think would be, yeah, she, she does it all the time. 1920 01:31:59,945 --> 01:32:01,485 She knows she will catch 1921 01:32:01,485 --> 01:32:03,765 that stuff more than I would know about 1922 01:32:05,435 --> 01:32:06,805 roof AC units. 1923 01:32:07,085 --> 01:32:09,725 I didn't, I would not have caught that if she didn't say it. 1924 01:32:10,285 --> 01:32:12,085 I will add, frankly, 1925 01:32:12,195 --> 01:32:14,165 that is why there's the reserves section 1926 01:32:14,335 --> 01:32:15,565 under manufacturing. 1927 01:32:15,715 --> 01:32:17,765 That was the intent with that one there. 1928 01:32:17,825 --> 01:32:19,125 But just because, you know, 1929 01:32:19,125 --> 01:32:21,765 we don't have the ordinance on the books yet. 1930 01:32:22,445 --> 01:32:23,965 That was the intention of leaving 1931 01:32:23,965 --> 01:32:25,005 that reserved at this time. 1932 01:32:25,355 --> 01:32:26,355 Okay. 1933 01:32:27,155 --> 01:32:29,125 Yeah, I think the other thing about your question, 1934 01:32:29,125 --> 01:32:33,315 Scott too is that, you know, 1935 01:32:33,315 --> 01:32:35,795 there's the land application of some of the chemicals, 1936 01:32:35,795 --> 01:32:39,675 but then again the storage still re is required 1937 01:32:40,425 --> 01:32:41,755 even if you're an ag parcel, 1938 01:32:41,895 --> 01:32:43,835 but you're storing a certain amount of gasoline 1939 01:32:44,015 --> 01:32:48,195 or you know, so there's still some applicability I guess. 1940 01:32:48,335 --> 01:32:51,985 But I think kind of to Jim's point is like, you know, 1941 01:32:52,485 --> 01:32:55,355 people are gonna use what they need to use on their fields 1942 01:32:56,695 --> 01:33:01,325 and we're not going in to regulate whether it's, you know, 1943 01:33:01,395 --> 01:33:03,125 some dangerous chemical. 1944 01:33:04,005 --> 01:33:07,525 A lot of other regulatory agencies have banned those types 1945 01:33:07,545 --> 01:33:10,525 of things, you know, where you can't use a chemical 1946 01:33:10,525 --> 01:33:14,525 that's been considered a, we call 'em VOCs, 1947 01:33:14,545 --> 01:33:19,365 but you know, so there is other layers of protection 1948 01:33:19,945 --> 01:33:22,805 too, not just our ordinances I guess is what I'm getting at. 1949 01:33:34,615 --> 01:33:37,865 Just flipping through to see if I had any other pieces 1950 01:33:38,425 --> 01:33:41,265 of 1 62 to 1951 01:33:43,905 --> 01:33:44,515 talk through 1952 01:33:48,825 --> 01:33:52,955 This portion of the ordinance is where some 1953 01:33:52,955 --> 01:33:55,835 of like the reporting and documentation comes in. 1954 01:33:55,935 --> 01:34:00,475 So on page 71, if you are considered 1955 01:34:00,475 --> 01:34:01,875 to be high risk 1956 01:34:01,875 --> 01:34:03,955 or medium risk, there are some forms 1957 01:34:04,625 --> 01:34:06,915 that we want filled out and have on file. 1958 01:34:07,425 --> 01:34:10,075 Some of these are similar to the firefighter right to know. 1959 01:34:10,215 --> 01:34:11,915 So it's already kind of being collected. 1960 01:34:11,975 --> 01:34:13,715 We can, we're trying to coordinate with them 1961 01:34:13,715 --> 01:34:14,755 so we get it all at once. 1962 01:34:14,855 --> 01:34:17,035 If they're already going out there to ask some 1963 01:34:17,035 --> 01:34:19,955 of these questions, can we toss in a few of ours? 1964 01:34:21,695 --> 01:34:23,915 And then again, some of those 1965 01:34:26,085 --> 01:34:27,135 routine maintenance 1966 01:34:27,135 --> 01:34:30,135 and exp inspection requirements too, so 1967 01:34:30,135 --> 01:34:32,015 that it's not just at the site plan approval 1968 01:34:32,435 --> 01:34:35,135 and then three years later, you know, we don't know 1969 01:34:35,135 --> 01:34:37,215 what they're doing on site or they have a new chemical 1970 01:34:37,215 --> 01:34:39,935 that they're using because they're, you know, 1971 01:34:39,965 --> 01:34:41,415 just got invented or something. 1972 01:34:41,435 --> 01:34:42,695 So we're gonna keep up with it. 1973 01:34:50,665 --> 01:34:54,045 All right then with that 1 63 1974 01:34:54,505 --> 01:34:56,765 and 1 64 are 1975 01:34:58,295 --> 01:35:00,625 heavily from our existing ordinances. 1976 01:35:03,165 --> 01:35:06,545 The big change for clear cutting is 1977 01:35:06,545 --> 01:35:08,985 that there's also selective cutting being added. 1978 01:35:09,085 --> 01:35:11,985 And we've seen this on a few parcels that are not, 1979 01:35:14,695 --> 01:35:16,315 you know, actively under development, 1980 01:35:16,335 --> 01:35:18,435 but they know they're trying to be good stewards 1981 01:35:18,455 --> 01:35:20,835 of the what's existing there, the vegetation. 1982 01:35:20,975 --> 01:35:24,235 And so my understanding is that there's certain species 1983 01:35:24,305 --> 01:35:26,835 that do better if they're not overcrowded. 1984 01:35:26,855 --> 01:35:28,075 And so you can do some of this 1985 01:35:28,075 --> 01:35:29,995 to actually do good land management. 1986 01:35:31,465 --> 01:35:32,755 They also probably do it a little bit 1987 01:35:32,815 --> 01:35:34,355 to maybe sell some good wood. 1988 01:35:34,855 --> 01:35:36,515 So while they're waiting for development, 1989 01:35:36,515 --> 01:35:37,715 there's some income. 1990 01:35:42,635 --> 01:35:45,055 So that was the thought behind that. 1991 01:35:56,085 --> 01:35:58,305 And then in 1 64, the soil erosion 1992 01:35:58,325 --> 01:36:00,025 and sedimentation control, 1993 01:36:03,885 --> 01:36:07,695 this is mostly already regulated by part 91, 1994 01:36:09,445 --> 01:36:13,375 however, we have found that occasionally when the 1995 01:36:15,135 --> 01:36:17,425 developer, again, depending on which tool they're using, 1996 01:36:17,445 --> 01:36:20,745 if they no longer hit the criteria to par to fall 1997 01:36:21,315 --> 01:36:26,145 under part 91, which is within 500 feet 1998 01:36:26,145 --> 01:36:27,265 of a acre stream 1999 01:36:27,925 --> 01:36:32,585 and over an acre, that they can still have a lot 2000 01:36:32,585 --> 01:36:34,065 of soil erosion happen. 2001 01:36:34,845 --> 01:36:39,595 So that is a little bit of what we're 2002 01:36:40,255 --> 01:36:40,915 trying to 2003 01:36:45,145 --> 01:36:46,725 be a part of here because we've 2004 01:36:46,725 --> 01:36:47,805 seen it happen in a few places. 2005 01:36:47,985 --> 01:36:49,965 And so again, it's a little bit driven 2006 01:36:50,025 --> 01:36:51,445 by the different development tools. 2007 01:36:52,825 --> 01:36:56,565 For example, if a a plat or a site condo went in 2008 01:36:56,565 --> 01:36:58,805 and they're, you know, it's big 2009 01:36:58,805 --> 01:37:01,005 and they're working on one side of, they do all the 2010 01:37:01,795 --> 01:37:03,485 utilities, they get the roads in 2011 01:37:03,625 --> 01:37:07,055 and everything else has been cut and filled 2012 01:37:07,075 --> 01:37:09,855 and moved around by equipment and it no longer has grass 2013 01:37:09,875 --> 01:37:12,495 or trees on it, then what are they doing with 2014 01:37:12,495 --> 01:37:13,655 that while they go to get the rest? 2015 01:37:13,755 --> 01:37:16,175 You know, as they start to slowly build homes. 2016 01:37:18,235 --> 01:37:19,895 So again, that's where we've seen it, 2017 01:37:19,895 --> 01:37:22,455 where the individual parcels might be smaller, 2018 01:37:22,555 --> 01:37:25,695 but when you put all those together, it can be pretty, 2019 01:37:27,585 --> 01:37:29,925 it can cause a lot of damage to be honest. 2020 01:37:31,105 --> 01:37:33,245 So that's where some of that's coming from. 2021 01:37:33,825 --> 01:37:37,045 We are requiring a soil erosion control plan. 2022 01:37:37,425 --> 01:37:39,445 You know, again, we're not the permitting agency, 2023 01:37:39,465 --> 01:37:42,685 but we do wanna see that they have these measures in place 2024 01:37:42,865 --> 01:37:45,445 and that they're following them. 2025 01:37:50,865 --> 01:37:53,085 Is there a reason why the minimum is an acre? 2026 01:37:53,755 --> 01:37:55,775 Like if it's just under an acre? 2027 01:37:56,365 --> 01:37:59,175 Yeah, But it's a hundred percent of the site. Like, 2028 01:37:59,175 --> 01:38:01,655 Yeah, again, that's just kind of following the part 91. 2029 01:38:02,535 --> 01:38:04,255 I actually have a note on that of like, 2030 01:38:05,395 --> 01:38:08,375 not only making it an acre but an acre within a certain area 2031 01:38:08,375 --> 01:38:11,015 because again, I'm fearful that somebody's gonna just do, 2032 01:38:11,715 --> 01:38:13,175 you know, they have a two acre site 2033 01:38:13,275 --> 01:38:15,095 and they do the opposite ends of it 2034 01:38:15,195 --> 01:38:18,335 and it's only equals, you know, 0.99 of an acre, 2035 01:38:18,355 --> 01:38:21,135 but they're still flooding the middle of their parcel 2036 01:38:21,355 --> 01:38:23,415 or you know, it's all running onto a road. 2037 01:38:23,595 --> 01:38:26,095 So I think there is some opportunity to, 2038 01:38:27,835 --> 01:38:30,535 Or if the parcel isn't quite an acre, 2039 01:38:30,535 --> 01:38:32,215 but then they're doing the whole parcel. 2040 01:38:32,215 --> 01:38:33,415 Yeah. Like it's still a problem. 2041 01:38:34,295 --> 01:38:36,415 I dunno. Yeah, I think we could relate it to just some 2042 01:38:36,415 --> 01:38:38,335 of the amount of earth change 2043 01:38:38,955 --> 01:38:41,935 or again, if you're, as we get into the next article, 2044 01:38:41,935 --> 01:38:44,255 which is 1 65, if you're in one of these areas 2045 01:38:44,345 --> 01:38:46,015 where it might have steep slopes 2046 01:38:47,035 --> 01:38:49,775 and so if you're at the, you know, the top of the slope 2047 01:38:49,875 --> 01:38:51,775 and you're doing less than an acre, 2048 01:38:51,795 --> 01:38:53,975 but then you're, it's all running down to somebody. 2049 01:38:54,795 --> 01:38:57,695 So I think there are some ways we could try 2050 01:38:57,695 --> 01:38:59,575 to not just make it that one value, 2051 01:39:00,115 --> 01:39:03,535 but have some other pieces from our ordinance that 2052 01:39:06,915 --> 01:39:07,965 help regulate that. 2053 01:39:08,905 --> 01:39:11,685 But yeah, it, it, that's again, just coming from the 2054 01:39:14,485 --> 01:39:16,815 part 91 says the same thing again, 2055 01:39:16,835 --> 01:39:19,255 the whole 500 feet if somebody was at four 90, 2056 01:39:20,145 --> 01:39:21,215 super frustrating. 2057 01:39:21,235 --> 01:39:23,135 But we have had that happen before. 2058 01:39:23,235 --> 01:39:25,815 But again, we can, if we have the soil erosion plan, 2059 01:39:25,835 --> 01:39:30,405 we can still require them, you know, 2060 01:39:30,505 --> 01:39:31,605 to do some of these things. 2061 01:39:35,565 --> 01:39:37,665 At least, at least require them better than we are 2062 01:39:37,665 --> 01:39:38,825 doing now, I'll say. 2063 01:39:39,965 --> 01:39:40,185 But, 2064 01:39:50,405 --> 01:39:54,105 so those were the ones that I wanted to go through. 2065 01:39:54,255 --> 01:39:58,185 There's like I said, some that then kind of follow 2066 01:39:59,335 --> 01:40:04,305 from two 90 and 53, 56 2067 01:40:05,045 --> 01:40:06,105 and two. 2068 01:40:07,765 --> 01:40:10,185 So if there's specific questions on those, I might have to 2069 01:40:11,275 --> 01:40:12,705 defer to Leanna, 2070 01:40:12,725 --> 01:40:14,945 but I definitely wanted to get through those. 2071 01:40:15,165 --> 01:40:17,025 Our plan moving forward is again, get 2072 01:40:17,025 --> 01:40:18,985 through the last article 1 65, 2073 01:40:21,935 --> 01:40:24,065 another one where it's already in our ordinance, 2074 01:40:24,165 --> 01:40:27,535 but we wanted to apply 2075 01:40:28,375 --> 01:40:29,685 everywhere in the Township. 2076 01:40:30,295 --> 01:40:32,525 After we get through those with the planning commission, 2077 01:40:32,535 --> 01:40:33,725 again, there'll be a version two. 2078 01:40:33,745 --> 01:40:37,045 We have, once we see the amount of changes for version two 2079 01:40:37,045 --> 01:40:39,805 of all these we haven't really discussed if we'll take 'em 2080 01:40:39,805 --> 01:40:43,165 back to planning commission or go right 2081 01:40:43,165 --> 01:40:44,165 to the Township board, 2082 01:40:44,265 --> 01:40:46,165 but we will have to go through the Township board 2083 01:40:46,185 --> 01:40:47,405 and have public hearings. 2084 01:40:49,835 --> 01:40:50,845 Ideally, we would be able 2085 01:40:50,845 --> 01:40:52,165 to get this all done by the end of the year. 2086 01:40:53,865 --> 01:40:57,565 So, and again, I think a lot of it is either existing 2087 01:40:57,665 --> 01:40:59,525 or it's a step in the right direction. 2088 01:40:59,705 --> 01:41:02,325 So I think it would be good to try 2089 01:41:02,325 --> 01:41:04,765 and get some of this codified so we can start applying it 2090 01:41:04,765 --> 01:41:09,085 to projects and then we can continue refining it as we go. 2091 01:41:09,145 --> 01:41:11,445 But it's part of that requirement of that 2092 01:41:13,295 --> 01:41:14,805 Water services agreement too. 2093 01:41:15,065 --> 01:41:17,725 So we have some pressure that way too, 2094 01:41:17,725 --> 01:41:19,085 that we have to meet that commitment. 2095 01:41:19,505 --> 01:41:21,325 And then there will still be a lot of work where, 2096 01:41:21,325 --> 01:41:23,085 like I mentioned, we're gonna have these different forms 2097 01:41:23,145 --> 01:41:27,325 and inventories and agreements that we gotta 2098 01:41:28,255 --> 01:41:29,725 draft so that we can provide. 2099 01:41:29,725 --> 01:41:33,365 Sometimes that's easier, sometimes it's more work upfront 2100 01:41:33,585 --> 01:41:35,725 and we don't have the capacity to do that, 2101 01:41:35,825 --> 01:41:40,005 but we are trying to make it very user friendly. 2102 01:41:40,305 --> 01:41:41,565 So fillable forms, 2103 01:41:43,055 --> 01:41:44,885 links on the website to everything you need. 2104 01:41:45,265 --> 01:41:47,645 Use the the interactive GIS map 2105 01:41:48,225 --> 01:41:51,365 and then again long term just continue to add to some 2106 01:41:51,365 --> 01:41:52,445 of these reserve sections 2107 01:41:52,505 --> 01:41:56,405 and some of the ideas as development gets more 2108 01:41:57,765 --> 01:42:00,085 creative too, that's where some 2109 01:42:00,085 --> 01:42:02,045 of this lead comes from and all that kind of stuff. 2110 01:42:02,145 --> 01:42:04,045 So we'll continue to make it better. 2111 01:42:09,365 --> 01:42:11,665 Are there any questions on the environmental ordinances 2112 01:42:11,805 --> 01:42:16,325 or the other ones? 2113 01:42:16,345 --> 01:42:17,365 The landscaping? 2114 01:42:20,755 --> 01:42:21,845 What else is in there? 2115 01:42:26,225 --> 01:42:28,205 Two 90 subdivisions. 2116 01:42:30,135 --> 01:42:34,295 53 is, oh, 2117 01:42:34,295 --> 01:42:36,495 53 is landscaping, 56 is site plan. 2118 01:42:36,555 --> 01:42:39,415 Oh no, that's 64. I don't know what 56 is. 2119 01:42:39,475 --> 01:42:40,735 You guys are better at that game. 2120 01:42:40,935 --> 01:42:42,535 I don't do that one. Environmental 2121 01:42:42,535 --> 01:42:43,855 Protections they're currently in. 2122 01:42:44,475 --> 01:42:46,695 Oh, so basically we're all just removing those. Okay. 2123 01:42:46,955 --> 01:42:49,135 So landscaping would probably be the only one 2124 01:42:49,885 --> 01:42:51,815 that I didn't go through in much detail 2125 01:42:51,815 --> 01:42:53,215 that there's some changes to, but 2126 01:42:55,475 --> 01:43:00,175 I have a general issue, I guess I like the fact 2127 01:43:00,175 --> 01:43:02,415 that in the beginning we've got a definition 2128 01:43:02,415 --> 01:43:06,935 that says master plan and comprehensive plan are equal. 2129 01:43:08,645 --> 01:43:10,735 However, in light of the fact that it, 2130 01:43:10,805 --> 01:43:12,015 it's a clerical thing. 2131 01:43:12,085 --> 01:43:16,735 Anytime we touch a document like this to get it consistent, 2132 01:43:17,395 --> 01:43:22,345 we made a choice to make the, the name comprehensive plan 2133 01:43:23,565 --> 01:43:25,105 and I think we ought to follow through 2134 01:43:25,285 --> 01:43:29,385 for everybody's sake 20 years from now, they won't 2135 01:43:29,935 --> 01:43:32,065 like me an old guy reading through there 2136 01:43:32,125 --> 01:43:34,505 and say, whoa, what's master plan? 2137 01:43:35,365 --> 01:43:38,865 You know? So just do the clerical work, 2138 01:43:39,495 --> 01:43:42,505 wipe it out, the master plan doesn't exist. 2139 01:43:42,615 --> 01:43:44,945 Keep the definition, that's great as a safety factor, 2140 01:43:45,645 --> 01:43:49,545 but make the comprehensive plan consistent 2141 01:43:50,325 --> 01:43:51,365 as much as possible. 2142 01:43:51,585 --> 01:43:53,525 It just simplifies everybody's thoughts. 2143 01:43:55,245 --> 01:43:57,055 Yeah, I agree. I I try 2144 01:43:57,055 --> 01:43:59,775 to correct myself just like the fruit belt rail trail. 2145 01:43:59,895 --> 01:44:01,215 I try to get that one right too. 2146 01:44:03,215 --> 01:44:05,955 But again, some of this is coming from other agencies where, 2147 01:44:05,955 --> 01:44:07,595 so they're just calling them master plans 2148 01:44:07,735 --> 01:44:12,505 and so it's just taking the time to go 2149 01:44:12,505 --> 01:44:13,745 through it and do it ourselves. 2150 01:44:13,885 --> 01:44:16,625 But the, the Wellhead Protection Ordinance was 2151 01:44:18,705 --> 01:44:20,305 modified from the cities by a consultant 2152 01:44:20,405 --> 01:44:21,985 to just meet all the townships. 2153 01:44:22,085 --> 01:44:24,385 And so I think that's why they use the generic term. 2154 01:44:24,525 --> 01:44:29,265 So we're taking it upon ourselves to make it our own. 2155 01:44:29,365 --> 01:44:31,265 And so we have to look for those things. 2156 01:44:31,705 --> 01:44:33,985 I understand. And yeah, and that helps 2157 01:44:34,045 --> 01:44:36,185 to have the definition there, the 2158 01:44:38,085 --> 01:44:41,375 consistency in our own documents is what I'm looking at 2159 01:44:41,635 --> 01:44:43,375 and not documents we're not touching. 2160 01:44:43,725 --> 01:44:46,055 That would be crazy to send those to the trustees 2161 01:44:46,075 --> 01:44:48,775 for a change that is like this. 2162 01:44:49,115 --> 01:44:51,735 But as we make changes, yeah, just deal 2163 01:44:51,735 --> 01:44:52,735 With it. 2164 01:44:52,735 --> 01:44:54,935 It's how we did for EGLE is in there and it says, 2165 01:44:54,995 --> 01:44:56,055 or future names 2166 01:44:56,055 --> 01:44:59,375 because the DEQ just changed to EGLE a few years ago 2167 01:44:59,435 --> 01:45:03,775 and everybody has DEQ in so many places, so 2168 01:45:05,375 --> 01:45:08,735 I don't know why we do that to ourselves, but here we are. 2169 01:45:08,995 --> 01:45:10,935 So, all right, well thank you very much. 2170 01:45:11,745 --> 01:45:13,775 Thank you Anna. You guys were my third meeting 2171 01:45:13,795 --> 01:45:17,015 of the week this week in the evening, so 2172 01:45:18,565 --> 01:45:23,305 hope it wasn't, my brain wasn't too fried. 2173 01:45:25,255 --> 01:45:28,305 Alright, moving on to item number seven, 2174 01:45:28,355 --> 01:45:31,945 which is the public comment section of our meeting. 2175 01:45:32,645 --> 01:45:35,185 If anyone has a public comment they wish to make, 2176 01:45:35,185 --> 01:45:36,745 please come up to the podium 2177 01:45:37,525 --> 01:45:40,985 and you've got four minutes to state your case. 2178 01:45:47,675 --> 01:45:50,565 Okay. Seeing no one coming up, I'm going 2179 01:45:50,565 --> 01:45:52,765 to declare the public comment section over. 2180 01:45:53,165 --> 01:45:54,565 I can't believe we got through that 2181 01:45:56,405 --> 01:45:58,565 planning Commissioner comments, anything anybody wants 2182 01:45:58,565 --> 01:46:00,765 to say based upon what we've done tonight? 2183 01:46:01,325 --> 01:46:02,885 I, I'm not a planning commission member, 2184 01:46:02,905 --> 01:46:04,605 but I did want to let you know I'm the one 2185 01:46:04,605 --> 01:46:06,445 that gave you the article on Moss Landing. 2186 01:46:07,285 --> 01:46:08,765 I just wanted you to be aware of it. 2187 01:46:08,765 --> 01:46:11,045 Obviously the citizens are concerned about it. 2188 01:46:11,205 --> 01:46:12,285 I think it is a concern, 2189 01:46:12,625 --> 01:46:15,925 but I did want you to be aware that in researching it, 2190 01:46:15,985 --> 01:46:17,565 it came to my attention that 2191 01:46:18,435 --> 01:46:21,325 this was a flare up against a wall of an existing building 2192 01:46:21,325 --> 01:46:23,445 that had burned in 2025 2193 01:46:24,345 --> 01:46:28,165 and it was 1200 inaccessible battery modules 2194 01:46:28,165 --> 01:46:29,165 that were still charged 2195 01:46:29,945 --> 01:46:32,645 and they spontaneously ignited and caused a fire. 2196 01:46:34,145 --> 01:46:37,045 But it still stands according to this article 2197 01:46:37,155 --> 01:46:41,205 that this facility was built in an enclosed aging building 2198 01:46:41,205 --> 01:46:43,965 with older battery technologies crammed together, 2199 01:46:44,725 --> 01:46:46,045 allowing fires to spread quickly. 2200 01:46:46,305 --> 01:46:50,005 So it's, I know there have been changes in California law, 2201 01:46:50,105 --> 01:46:51,685 but it doesn't change the fact 2202 01:46:51,685 --> 01:46:54,925 that the Moss landing site was really very poorly designed. 2203 01:46:56,395 --> 01:47:00,165 Doesn't mean it's not a concern, but take it in in context. 2204 01:47:01,335 --> 01:47:04,125 Thank you Jim. Alright, Mr. Chair. 2205 01:47:04,265 --> 01:47:05,285 Yep. Scott, 2206 01:47:06,045 --> 01:47:10,365 I just, I've mentioned traffic calming in our neighborhood 2207 01:47:10,705 --> 01:47:15,685 in the past and I just want to publicly commend Anna 2208 01:47:15,825 --> 01:47:17,685 and her department for the work 2209 01:47:17,685 --> 01:47:19,365 that they did over the past four 2210 01:47:19,425 --> 01:47:22,005 and one half years working with the Road Commission 2211 01:47:22,585 --> 01:47:24,645 to the traffic. 2212 01:47:24,715 --> 01:47:26,725 Calming pieces are in place. 2213 01:47:26,875 --> 01:47:28,005 There's some signage 2214 01:47:28,025 --> 01:47:30,165 and a little bit of markings that need to be done, 2215 01:47:30,345 --> 01:47:32,565 but as of today, it's 2216 01:47:33,395 --> 01:47:35,565 calming the traffic on Green Meadow Road 2217 01:47:35,705 --> 01:47:36,845 and we're so grateful. 2218 01:47:37,735 --> 01:47:38,765 Thank you. Very 2219 01:47:38,765 --> 01:47:39,765 Good. 2220 01:47:40,235 --> 01:47:43,685 Alright. It is now, let's see, what is it? 2221 01:47:43,855 --> 01:47:47,365 7:47 PM The agenda being completed. 2222 01:47:47,485 --> 01:47:50,365 I declare the meeting at a conclusion. Thank you very much.