1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,120 critical issue for our community and state and after being appointed to 2 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:09,160 fill Senator Greg Myers seat earlier this 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:15,680 year Senator Garson took this opportunity to 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:19,880 dive deeper into the challenges We would just want to say thank you 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:23,000 to Senator Garson for spending time with us in Owasco. 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:28,880 And to the public, if you're not currently following Owasco 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:33,080 on social media like Facebook or Twitter please consider doing so. 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:38,080 Steven Winters 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:41,560 led a discussion on Monday, August 10th with the Orange County Commission for 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:46,880 the environment on Owasco's draft P fast 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:50,160 guiding principles. Mary Tiger attended as well 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:56,440 to capture the discussion for the board's consideration 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:59,400 in finalizing the guiding principles. Number four 14 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:04,400 the Owasco Board of Directors cancelled the effective board governance training 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:09,320 that was to take place today. August 13th, this will be rescheduled 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,800 at a later date so that all board members can attend. We were short board 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,760 members today. 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:22,240 And number five the Owasco Board of Directors and staff 19 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:27,640 communications workshop will be held on August 27th, 2026, but 20 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:33,120 that's tentative pending some board polling results. 21 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:37,760 That's all I have. Are there any other announcements by board members? 22 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:43,240 Hearing none. >> Oh, it's just 23 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:48,080 that next month I'm going to be out. So, I won't be attending next month. 24 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:52,440 » We will continue to miss you. Thank you for giving us a heads up on 25 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,440 that. Anybody else? 26 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,280 » No, uh we we can talk after the board meeting. 27 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,520 That'd be great. >> Okay, thank you. 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,520 » Can I actually clarify, [clears throat] sorry, for everyone? 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,680 » Sure, go ahead. >> Can you actually clarify for everyone 30 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,200 that so the communications workshop would be pushed to uh September? 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:19,000 » Oh, the the effective governance training 32 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:23,760 um proposed to September, do you mean? Or the communications workshop? 33 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,800 » I'm not sure. What's what's beyond it in here? 34 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:30,280 » Well, the universal um the universal board of directors and staff 35 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:34,760 communications workshop scheduled on August 27th, 36 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:38,360 2026. But that's tentative pending on board 37 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:41,320 polling results to make sure we can attend. 38 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,360 » So the workshop that was canceled today would not be moved and the other one 39 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,000 pushed back. My understanding is they were sequential. 40 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,720 » The one that's canceled to those canceled for today, I'm going to poll 41 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,120 all the board members to see when we can schedule another date 42 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,840 for that. >> date. 43 00:02:54,640 --> 00:03:01,320 » Yeah. Thanks for clarifying. Good point. 44 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:05,600 Yeah, so we will hold the effective board governance training 45 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:09,680 session when we can get most of the board here. 46 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:13,680 And I was, you know, thinking September. April's not going to be here in 47 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:16,720 September, so we will arrange a date when the board can be here. 48 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,320 » Great. >> All right. 49 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,320 Was that good enough? >> Um did you have a question? 50 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,600 » Yes, I'm sorry. >> So 51 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:31,239 we will not have the session unless all board members can be present. Is that 52 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,600 is that your intent? >> That would be my intent to make sure 53 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,640 that all the board members are present. >> Okay. 54 00:03:35,497 --> 00:03:39,160 » [clears throat] >> Just want to make sure that that's what 55 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:42,760 we're going to go for and not change. >> Yes, ma'am. 56 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,959 » And and they would not go out of order then? 57 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:49,280 » No, that can't happen. They being the follow-up 58 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:53,440 » The three planned workshops. >> staff communications workshop? 59 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:56,680 » Uh all this all three all of the series. >> The series of three, yeah, would 60 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,560 continue as a series of three. >> In that order. 61 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,752 » Yeah. >> Okay. 62 00:03:59,732 --> 00:04:01,752 » [clears throat] 63 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,360 » Is that good? >> I have no idea. 64 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,840 I don't know what those dates are going to be. 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:18,560 » Yeah, neither do we. Yeah, till we pull the board. 66 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,560 Pick the dates. 67 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,677 » I'm trying to be out of town on the 27th of August. [snorts] 68 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,840 » As am I. 69 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:36,320 » Okay. There you go. 70 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,320 That's very helpful. Thanks. 71 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,840 » I'm trying to be away. >> We will 72 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,640 We will duly note it. As we move forward. Thanks so much. 73 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,280 Any other announcements by board members? 74 00:04:49,513 --> 00:04:54,320 » [clears throat] >> How about announcements by staff? 75 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:59,440 » No, thank you. >> All right. 76 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:03,440 Are there any petitions or requests from the public? 77 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:07,280 If there are any petitions or re- requests to speak, 78 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,520 there's any individuals, please approach the podium, state your name, and 79 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,120 organize your remarks in a permitted timeframe. We do have a speaker 80 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:18,360 scheduled for a specific item on the consent 81 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:21,960 agenda. This does not include that. All right. 82 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,040 Are there any petitions and requests from board members? 83 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,919 Hearing none, I actually have a petition to 84 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:36,440 ask with the staff. And the petition would be um 85 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:41,520 would be possible that the staff 86 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:47,080 could sometime in a coming meeting um provide a briefing to the board on 87 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:52,120 the approach and constraints of hiring consulting 88 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,840 engineers to do the design projects that we [clears throat] do. 89 00:05:54,359 --> 00:05:58,960 » [snorts] >> And um 90 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:03,040 And and I had a briefing on this from the executive group earlier this week 91 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:07,920 and there's several different processes involved that um I think it would be 92 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,680 good if we were just aware of them uh considering that uh 93 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,440 you know, we do approve some construction 94 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:18,000 contracts. Yes, Todd. >> I'll say that's uh something that the 95 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,919 board's interested in, we can certainly get that scheduled. 96 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:25,160 » All right. Can I have a show of hands from the board of everybody that would 97 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,160 be interested in it? 98 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,520 Good. Thank you very much. 99 00:06:33,919 --> 00:06:38,520 Are there any petitions and requests from staff? 100 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,760 » Uh thank you. >> The board will move into the consent 101 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:46,440 agenda and we have three items. 102 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,720 I have to read them all and then we'll just have a brief conversation about one 103 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:54,760 of them. Item number one in the consent agenda is 104 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,800 looking for the approval of the minutes of the July 9th, 2026 meeting. 105 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,280 » Wait, Michael, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think that the appropriate method 106 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,640 is to pull something if something's to be discussed um 107 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,640 if we're going to have a presentation or discussion about it, we should just pull 108 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:13,160 it from the consent agenda and move it in to a different category on the on the 109 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:17,080 agenda. Um 110 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:21,240 So, is there I'm assuming it's item number two under the consent agenda that 111 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,080 perhaps we need to pull and move it? >> That was what I was going to suggest 112 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,200 when I got to it just now. >> Okay. Well, 113 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:35,360 then I'd like to make the motion that we pull item C2 from the consent agenda and 114 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,360 move that into um 115 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:43,040 discussion into under E for discussion. 116 00:07:40,919 --> 00:07:46,600 Uh would you think that that's the appropriate place to put it? 117 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,360 » Um, I think that might be the appropriate place to put it and I was 118 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:53,160 going to announce to the public that that was, um, item number two to the 119 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:58,080 word of the galvanized service line replacement contract. And yes, um, I 120 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,480 would suggest 121 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,880 » it. >> You 122 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,760 want to pull? >> Okay, so let's move it to make item C2 123 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,200 becomes item E2. >> Second. 124 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,120 » All in favor. >> All in favor. [laughter] 125 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,960 » All right, yeah. >> Thank you, Susanna. Thank you for your 126 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,320 time. Um, [clears throat] item number three is 127 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,240 a resolution to adjust the board member compensation. 128 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,400 And I'm going to note that we have one 129 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:28,840 member of the public signed up to speak on the award for the galvanized service 130 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:32,479 line replacement construction contract. That would be Mr. Woods. 131 00:08:30,919 --> 00:08:35,760 Um, Mr. Woods, please come to the podium. 132 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:40,560 » Uh, may I suggest that that the appropriate time for that is where where 133 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:44,240 it is now on the agenda at E2. That it's that that's then the 134 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,000 appropriate time for us to talk about that. 135 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,000 » Thank you. >> Starting. 136 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,520 » No, it's all it's all good. I appreciate that. 137 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:57,800 Thanks very much. Um, then I would ask, are there any 138 00:08:53,839 --> 00:08:57,800 public comments on the consent agenda? 139 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:04,760 Are there any questions or comments or would a board member like to pull 140 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,040 another item from the consent agenda? >> I have a question. 141 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:12,680 » Yes, ma'am. >> Um, on item three, I just want to 142 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:16,720 clarify, um, whether or not board attendance at the meeting is required 143 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:22,640 each month in order to receive the compensation. 144 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:27,400 » Could you all talk up a little louder? I I'm not hard of hearing, but with this 145 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:31,320 environment it is difficult to hear. And I can't imagine anybody over there can 146 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,680 hear. Can you? Hear what's going on? 147 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,240 » let's not address the audience. >> I'm sorry. 148 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:40,680 » It's okay. >> I'll ask for mic help if it's needed. Um 149 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:45,000 Bob >> Well, that's part of what the board 150 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:50,720 might might discuss and decide one way or the other. I think that the uh 151 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:57,920 the idea behind the draft petition the resolution drafted is that the uh 152 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:02,360 regular monthly stipend is for all the work that gets done including attendance 153 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:07,120 to the meetings and including meetings that you cannot attend but that you've 154 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:10,840 had to do the work for to get ready for as if you were. 155 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,920 So, the idea behind the resolution was that you'd be paid 156 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,120 uh the same monthly stipend 157 00:10:15,052 --> 00:10:16,160 » [cough] >> um 158 00:10:15,707 --> 00:10:20,120 » [clears throat] >> whether you attended a meeting or not. 159 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:27,720 And it's drafted in such a way that it's quite easy to change if you want to make 160 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:31,040 attendance required. So, that you only are only paid for those months in which 161 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:36,680 you attend a meeting. That could be done but that's um 162 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:40,240 uh the original intent of the resolution was to 163 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:44,120 recognize that board members do a lot of work to get ready for meetings even the 164 00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:47,880 meetings that they're not able to attend. 165 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:52,680 And so, the monthly stipend covers that work. The additional 166 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:56,317 meeting stipend covers additional meetings after the first regular meeting 167 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,600 of the month. >> [snorts] 168 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:02,839 » Okay, so where it says as each is able to attend that means 169 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:07,040 whether or not we actually attend. >> That's exactly what that means. 170 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,440 » And then for the additional meetings, the attendance is required. 171 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,880 » That's exactly what that means. >> Okay, thank you. I just wanted to 172 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,560 clarify. >> Thanks for asking. 173 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,640 » I move [clears throat] that we approve the items on the consent agenda. 174 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,040 Items one and three on the [snorts] consent agenda. 175 00:11:20,839 --> 00:11:24,720 » Uh I'm sorry, I can't [clears throat] hear 176 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:29,320 » I move that we approve the items on the consent agenda. 177 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,880 » I second that. >> Thank you. 178 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:36,560 All in favor, say aye. >> Aye. 179 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:41,000 All opposed, say nay. Okay, cuz a motion was made by Susanna 180 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:45,640 and seconded by Judy. Thank you very much for the 181 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:50,320 So, the board now is going to move on to the action item agenda, which is number 182 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:56,040 one. Resolution honoring Stephanie Glasgow's 183 00:11:53,440 --> 00:12:00,040 years of service. Todd Taylor's 184 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:04,600 going to begin this item or provide providing some very brief remarks. Mr. 185 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Taylor. 186 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:11,160 » Yeah, thank [snorts] you. Tonight, we do have the privilege [clears throat] of 187 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:15,480 honoring Ms. Stephanie Glasgow, Owasso's director of human resources for 36 years 188 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,360 of service. And that kind of milestone is rare these 189 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:23,000 days when people change jobs like they change their clothes. 190 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:26,880 But, those of us that have worked with Stephanie for all these years, we know 191 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,680 her dedication and commitment to the work we do, 192 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:34,080 the community we serve, and most importantly, to the people here that get 193 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:38,360 it all done on every day. And retirement is a difficult decision 194 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,839 for some people, and I I certainly know it was for Stephanie. 195 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:46,839 Uh She's like an artist whose work is not 196 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:52,000 just a product that she's producing, but that that may something that they 197 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:56,240 poured a piece of themselves into. So, Owasso is part of her, and she is part 198 00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,680 of Owasso. And we have been so fortunate fortunate 199 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:04,000 to witness a true master at work for these 36 years. 200 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,440 Uh Stephanie has built a work environment at Owasso where employees 201 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:11,839 feel like they belong, where they can be their best, and where 202 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:16,560 they are truly cared about. She is a treasure beyond value, and will 203 00:13:13,839 --> 00:13:20,880 be missed very deeply by us all. As she transitions to the next phase of 204 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:26,320 her life, we thank her for all she has done for us, and we wish her much peace 205 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,320 and happiness in the future. 206 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,954 » Thank you, Mr. Taylor. >> [applause] 207 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:40,280 » Abe Curwen, our esteemed former direct executive 208 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:44,120 director of the Wassa, has also requested to provide a brief statement. 209 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:48,720 Thank you, Mr. Curwen. >> You bet. Good evening, board, and thank 210 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,640 you for your service on the Wassa board. As you well know, it's a huge 211 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:56,000 responsibility you you have. Um 212 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,680 and thanks for those words by Stephanie Todd. Um 213 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,680 you know, I join Wassa employees, past and present, and the board 214 00:14:01,029 --> 00:14:08,120 [clears throat] of directors in honoring and thanking Stephanie for her 36 years 215 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:12,040 of dedicated and excellent service for our team. 216 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:17,120 She actively and cheerfully embraced her responsibility to all 115 employees, 217 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,480 regardless of their rank in the organization, to make sure they all were 218 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:26,200 treated fairly, respectfully, as required in our HR policy. 219 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:30,360 Stephanie always kept those focused on safety. 220 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:35,640 Of her many attributes, I believe her genuine and unending care and support 221 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:41,400 for our employees, who are our most important resource, is what made her so 222 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:46,440 successful and appreciated by all her coworkers. And that was very evident 223 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:52,240 today with the farewell party that the staff had for Stephanie. There were so 224 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:55,560 many retirees like me, older, younger than me, 225 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,520 um in addition to the current team. And and I know everybody really had a great 226 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,960 time today. Um 227 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:07,400 she worked very well independently and took the initiative to stay on top 228 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:12,040 of and implement HR best practices, as very well documented in the 229 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:16,360 resolution before you tonight. Um Stephanie's provided this and 230 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:21,120 previous boards the information needed for the board to make informed decisions 231 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:26,000 about competitive employee pay and benefits. And and we certainly thank you 232 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:30,000 and prior board for that. True pleasure to work with Stephanie. 233 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Um and I enjoyed working with her closely 234 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:40,320 for 24 of her 36 and 1/2 years of service, and I wish her and her family 235 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,240 all the best in her well-earned retirement. I really appreciate the 236 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,360 board taking this action to honor her. Thank 237 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,160 you. >> Thank you, Mr. Board. 238 00:15:47,140 --> 00:15:49,160 » [applause] 239 00:15:51,725 --> 00:15:56,960 [applause] >> So, I will now read the resolution into 240 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:02,360 the official record, followed by presenting a printed copy to 241 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,560 Stephanie Glasgow in attendance. 242 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:12,120 This is a resolution honoring the service of Stephanie S. Glasgow to the 243 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:16,720 Orange Water and Sewer Authority in Carrboro, Chapel Hill, and the Orange 244 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:21,400 County community. Whereas, Stephanie Glasgow has served 245 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,640 faithfully and with unwavering dedication for more 246 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:30,240 than 36 years at the Orange Water and Sewer Authority, 247 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:36,040 {parentheses} OWASA, as human resources coordinator 248 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:41,920 from January 1990 to August 22, 249 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:47,160 then safety and training administrator from August 2002 250 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:52,880 to May 2010, and lastly director of human resources 251 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:57,200 from May 2010 until her retirement this August in 2026. 252 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,280 Devoting her career to serving the employees of OWASA, 253 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:05,360 the human resources and safety profession, 254 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:09,120 and the people of the Carrboro, Chapel Hill, 255 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:13,079 Orange County community. And 256 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:18,079 whereas, throughout her career, Ms. Glasgow was committed to 257 00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:23,920 professional excellence by continually expanding her knowledge and expertise 258 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:29,320 earning the Society for Human Resource Management {hyphen} 259 00:17:26,439 --> 00:17:36,040 Certified Professional the Department of Labor Management of 260 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:41,360 Environmental Safety and Health and the Duke University Human Resource 261 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:46,560 Management Certification and Master Project Manager MPM certification. 262 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:53,320 Whereas throughout her career, Ms. Glasgow has committed to protecting the 263 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:58,720 health and safety of the Wasson employees 264 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:04,440 by leading and strengthening Wasson's comprehensive safety program. 265 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:10,240 She championed a culture in which safety was a shared responsibility 266 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:16,840 through employee safety committees comprehensive safety training 267 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:23,080 voluntary OSHA audits the spill response team and through 268 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:27,720 accident investigation. Her leadership extended beyond Wasson 269 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:32,200 through her service as chair and vice chair 270 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:35,920 of the Mid-State Safety Council she was recognized as Safety 271 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,880 Professional of the Year and recipient 272 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:45,800 of the Shine Belkham Award for her outstanding contributions 273 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:49,320 to improving work space safety. And 274 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:53,400 whereas Ms. Glasgow provided invaluable guidance to Wasson's 275 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:57,960 leadership and the Board of Directors to help 276 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:02,760 ensure that Wasson's compensation and benefits remain competitive 277 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:07,640 she successfully led numerous classification 278 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:11,720 compensation and benefits studies and championed 279 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:15,600 employee focused benefits including 280 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:19,760 maternity and paternity leave compassionate leave 281 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:24,880 mentoring opportunities and other programs that strengthened 282 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:28,880 employee well-being recruitment and retention. 283 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:33,880 And whereas Ms. Glasgow was committed to 284 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:39,480 fostering a workplace where every employee was treated with 285 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:46,640 dignity, respect, and fairness. She played a pivotal role in developing 286 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:51,320 Alwase's diversity equity inclusion and belonging program 287 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:56,240 and promoted equitable employment practices. 288 00:19:53,040 --> 00:20:01,440 Encouraged diverse participation and perspectives in hiring 289 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:06,240 and helped create a workplace where our employees feel welcome 290 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:11,400 valued and supported. 291 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,960 She strengthened Alwase's recruitment onboarding 292 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:19,600 and retention practices through diverse interview panels 293 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:25,160 structured onboarding and performance check-ins 294 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:30,440 the new employee welcome team and professionally following up with the 295 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:35,920 new hires throughout their first year of employment 296 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:38,680 to help ensure their long-term success. And 297 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:43,280 whereas knowing that strong organizations 298 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:46,000 are built on meaningful relationships and a sense of belonging 299 00:20:45,824 --> 00:20:50,480 » [clears throat] >> Ms. Glasgow for fostered a culture of 300 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:54,560 appreciation connection 301 00:20:51,880 --> 00:21:01,640 and engagement by establishing the employee human resources team 302 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:07,600 which meets monthly to share information and identify opportunities to strengthen 303 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:12,760 the workplace culture. She also arranged highly successful 304 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:17,560 employee engagement events, including employee appreciation day, 305 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:22,280 service awards, holiday gatherings, and countless other 306 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:26,200 opportunities that brought employees together 307 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:29,880 and strengthened the morale and culture of Owosso. 308 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:34,440 And whereas throughout her career, Ms. 309 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:40,200 Glasgow never lost sight of the fact that an organization's 310 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:44,960 greatest strength is its people. She was a trusted advisor, 311 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,840 thoughtful listener, mentor, and advocate who approached every 312 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:55,120 employee with kindness, respect, 313 00:21:51,560 --> 00:22:00,720 compassion, and integrity. Whether welcoming a new employee 314 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:05,040 or helping someone navigate a difficult situation or 315 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:10,720 celebrating an important milestone, she made people feel valued, 316 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:14,360 supported, and genuinely cared for. And 317 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:19,840 whereas through her leadership, compassion, professionalism, 318 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:25,280 and unwavering commitment, Ms. Glasgow has earned the admiration and respect of 319 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:30,400 her colleagues. Her influence extends far beyond 320 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:36,160 policies and programs. It lives in the people she has mentored, 321 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,920 the careers she has helped shape, and the workplace culture she helped create 322 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:46,760 and nurture. She leaves behind an enduring legacy 323 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:52,360 of compassion, respect, and service to Owosso and the community 324 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:57,880 as she retires from Owosso on August 19th, 2026. 325 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:03,840 Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Orange Water and 326 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:08,720 Sewer Authority Board of Directors that the Board of Directors of the 327 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:13,680 Orange Water and Sewer Authority, OWASA, hereby honors and expresses 328 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:18,760 its sincere appreciation for the distinguished public service 329 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:23,160 of Stephanie S. Glasgow to OWASA and the people of Carrboro, Chapel Hill, 330 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,560 and Orange County. And the Board of Directors congratulates 331 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:31,960 Ms. Glasgow on her extraordinary career 332 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:37,760 and extends our best wishes for a long, healthy, and fulfilling retirement. 333 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:42,880 Adopted and presented on this 13th day of August, 2026. 334 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:46,680 May I have a motion and a second to adopt Stephanie Glasgow's resolution? 335 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,920 » I. >> Second. 336 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:53,240 » Great. We have a motion by Pedro and a second by Karen. All in favor, say I. 337 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,640 » I. >> I. 338 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,800 » Opposed? You're of course we're not going to hear any. 339 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:04,160 The motion passes with 340 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:06,680 seven affirmative votes. I think three six, seven. 341 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,800 Thanks. 342 00:24:10,186 --> 00:24:12,206 » [applause] 343 00:24:16,736 --> 00:24:18,756 [applause] 344 00:24:24,596 --> 00:24:26,616 [applause] 345 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,856 » Can I go again? >> Okay. 346 00:24:29,836 --> 00:24:31,856 » [laughter] 347 00:24:40,316 --> 00:24:42,336 [applause] 348 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:50,920 » Very nice. 349 00:24:52,107 --> 00:24:59,720 » [clears throat] >> Mr. Chair, could I make a um suggestion 350 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:05,200 or a change to my suggestion about moving the um 351 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:08,960 uh the item from the consent agenda that perhaps we have it as the first item 352 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,880 under discussion rather than the second so 353 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,000 that uh since we have a guest to 354 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,240 » Yeah. >> who'd like to comment so that he doesn't 355 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,480 have to so we don't feel rushed during our 356 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:24,360 discussion of item E1. 357 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,560 » We have the guest speak first. >> Oh, yeah. I'm reversing. 358 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:32,120 » Yes, that's what I'm suggesting. >> Great 359 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:37,240 suggestion. So, we're going to now take on the item that was on the 360 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,880 consent agenda. Am I correct? 361 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:44,800 » Yes. Yes, that's what I'm suggesting just to spare him our um our discussion 362 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,200 later and also so that we don't feel rushed to get to him. 363 00:25:47,127 --> 00:25:49,960 » [clears throat] >> Thank you. 364 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,040 » You're welcome. I apologize for not having that foresight before. 365 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:57,280 » It's all good. So, we're now going to move on to 366 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:02,800 discussing and taking action on agenda item on the 367 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:04,880 consent agenda item that we moved to now. 368 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,080 And Mr. Woods 369 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:13,200 » Might I suggest Mr. Chair, might I suggest that Steve 370 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:16,440 Bailey maybe come up and explain >> Better yet. 371 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,240 » project to the board and give you all some context. 372 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,720 » Thank you. >> public comment. 373 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,560 » Of course. >> Thank you. 374 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:26,000 » Um then we're going to have Steven Bailey come and explain the 375 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,800 background to the project. Yes. 376 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,760 » Nothing. Nothing. 377 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:36,640 » Okay. Good evening, board. I'm Steve Bailey, capital projects manager. 378 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:40,200 Tonight, we're requesting approval for contract award for the galvanized 379 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:44,280 service replacement program. Um I believe the last time I was before 380 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:48,280 you for this project was back in January when we described the 381 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:52,920 lead and copper rule program as well as the GRR galvanized requiring replacement 382 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,760 project that we were planning to proceed with. 383 00:26:53,920 --> 00:27:00,680 Um since that time, the contract documents have been completed and we bid 384 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:04,520 the project. Um at the initial bid date, we did not receive three bids that were 385 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,960 required to open at the initial bid opening. So, we had to re-advertise. On 386 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,760 the second bid opening on January on June 23rd, two bids were received and 387 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:18,080 opened. Following that opening, we followed our 388 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:22,560 normal procedure of reviewing the bids. On the initial review, we did see that 389 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:27,640 the apparent low bid by BBUDC Incorporated was less than half of the 390 00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:31,920 engineer's estimate for the project. That raised some concerns about whether 391 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:37,000 the bid adequately accounted for all of the work including replacements, 392 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:42,400 restoration, and coordination with property owners, Owassa, and the towns. 393 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:47,800 And if you remember, this project is the replacement of the galvanized services 394 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:51,520 from the water meters to the residents and connecting either under the house or 395 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:55,520 just outside the house, but most of them will be done actually under the 396 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,360 residents. So, all of this work is going to be taking place on Most of it's going 397 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:03,040 to be on private property. There'll be some work in the public right-of-way at 398 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:06,560 the connection point at the meters, but it's going to require coordination with 399 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:10,560 each of those individual property owners to schedule the work 400 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:14,200 and determine the location for the line of the replacement and working through 401 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,640 those issues on each individual property. 402 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,320 Um During our review, BBUDC had not 403 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:25,360 performed a CIP project for us in the past. So, we did not have direct 404 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,600 knowledge knowledge of the company's capabilities or job performance. 405 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,400 So, in order to gain some knowledge about the company, we reached out to 406 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:37,240 Owassa staff to see if they had worked with them. Our distribution and 407 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,760 collection staff did recall working with them on a couple of projects and that 408 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:45,720 there had been some issues on those projects including other utilities or 409 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:49,600 our utilities being hit. They also let us know that one of those 410 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:53,720 recent projects, uh the town of Chapel Hill, had some issues. 411 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:57,680 So, I reached out to town staff to discuss the project with them. Um they 412 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:01,800 let us know that there were some issues there, including 413 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:05,160 what from what they told me, work beginning before the town was notified 414 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,920 that they were working within the right of way. 415 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:12,160 They also, after the project had started, they worked with them to 416 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,040 continue it, trying to finish it, but that they had notified the contractor 417 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,800 and asked them to let them know when they were going to do the backfill in 418 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,000 the right of way so that they could observe the work being done there. That 419 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,960 did not happen, um and it was done without the town's 420 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,680 notice. And then since then they say that the 421 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:32,040 pavement repair in that area has failed in the road, and they've had to try and 422 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,840 work with the contractor to get it repaired, and they've not been 423 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,920 successful with that, and the communication has been difficult. 424 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,000 The galvanized service replacement project is unique for OWASA because it's 425 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:47,800 requiring this work on private property and within homes, and will require 426 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:53,000 require a great deal of communication with the property owners, tenants, as 427 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:56,240 well as OWASA and the towns. Being that the bid was less than the 428 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,000 half the engineer's estimate and the references that we received, we 429 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,640 determined that the bid was non-responsible. 430 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:08,160 We want this project to be successful for everyone, and we do not believe that 431 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:12,480 accepting the bid will be by BBUDC will be in the best interest of OWASA. 432 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,440 For those reasons, we're recommending that the bid be awarded to Stonewall 433 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:20,280 Construction. And I'll be glad to answer any questions 434 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,280 after the public comment. 435 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,360 » Thank you, Mr. Bailey. >> [clears throat] 436 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:30,680 » So, um as uh the some of the board members know, I printed out a a list of 437 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:36,000 the protocol that the chair should follow, and uh and I did that for my own 438 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:41,680 benefit, um because occasionally I have a hard time uh keeping us on track. Um 439 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:45,400 and so, you know, theoretically some clarifying questions would come now, but 440 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:49,840 I think Mr. Bailey, we're going to go ahead and uh with a comment from our 441 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:53,240 citizen. So, please uh Mr. Woods, come on up. 442 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:05,800 » Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, board members. 443 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:09,520 I appreciate your time and I will try to be brief. 444 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:14,520 Uh my name is Isaac Woods. I'm the chief executive officer for B Buxey. Some 445 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:17,320 people spell it out B B U D C. We've been 446 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,200 contractors. I've been doing this over 30 years. 447 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,520 Um we're licensed. 448 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:28,480 Uh we submitted the bid as he stated. The part that concerns me is the false 449 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:34,640 information that he just mentioned to you. 450 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,920 And I outlined that in my letter to Mr. uh 451 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:43,160 Bailey. And I'm going to just be brief. 452 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:48,400 First, we were the lowest bidder. B Buxey is the lowest responsible and 453 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:53,000 and responsive bidder. There is mathematical errors in the in 454 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:59,240 the engineer estimate. B Buxey bid was 24% of the engineer 455 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:02,040 estimate, not 54 as falsely stated in your report. 456 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:09,000 The The Stonewall bid 457 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:14,720 is 1.2 million. B Buxey bid was 140,000. The engineer 458 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:18,880 estimate is 977,000. So, I'm not going to go through the 459 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,960 fifth grade math. You can do the math. The The 460 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:26,960 summary also states the engineer estimate was 1. 1,602,000 461 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:33,600 and some change. Well, if you do the big tab and do the 462 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,600 math, it comes out to be 977,077. 463 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:42,480 So, false information, you can't make a good decision on false information. 464 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:46,880 And we we're not going to go mathematics cuz a fifth grader can figure this out. 465 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:51,160 Now, let me get to these false accusations 466 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,480 Mr. Bailey just made and what he put in his letter. 467 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:59,680 Uh First of all, 468 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:04,480 we work with OWASA. As any problems, 469 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:09,800 we resolved it. We didn't like the results, but 470 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:13,080 underground utilities is something you can't see. 471 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,800 You expect OWASA and any other utility company to locate 472 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,720 them. When they don't locate them, it's documented. 473 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:25,320 Then you have a problem. You lines may be 474 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:30,080 hit, but the point happens is what did you do to correct the damage? 475 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:34,640 What he didn't tell you, if you look at our supported documentation, is 476 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:38,320 everything was corrected. We paid for things that we didn't think we need to 477 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,840 pay for. But for 30 years, you want to give me four items. 478 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,040 You want to talk about four items over 30-year period. 479 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:49,760 And and let me just be clear. 480 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:54,760 He states he talks to people with Town of Chapel Hill as shown 481 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:58,400 in in the documents that I supported. Town of Chapel Hill, you got the built 482 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:02,040 you got the traffic control plan, you got the permit, it was paid. Who he 483 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,320 talked to, we've been trying to figure out who all these people he got this 484 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,800 information from. I asked for names, addresses because when I talked to Town 485 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,639 of Chapel Hill, they don't know what the heck he Mr. 486 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:16,000 Bailey's talking about. And so I like the math. 487 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:21,240 They're all making it all up. The same thing applies with the work we 488 00:34:18,919 --> 00:34:24,800 did in OWASA. When you drive down, let me just clear this up. When you go down 489 00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:29,840 Cameron Avenue today, you won't see no at 506, the road's been 490 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,399 paved. There's no deal There's no problems. There's no written notice from 491 00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:37,440 Town of Chapel Hill saying B Boxley you did defective work. That's what you 492 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:41,600 don't have. All you have is some false accusations written up by engineering 493 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:48,240 and staff member for some odd reasons to deny 494 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:51,520 equal access on a bidding contract with a lower price. 495 00:34:49,879 --> 00:34:56,639 In other words, they're telling you to pay somebody $500,000 more 496 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:01,560 to do the work than the person that had the lowest bid 497 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,560 and is qualified. 498 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:10,434 His his his accusations are lacking names, notices, or anything. 499 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,920 And And the >> [bell] 500 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:19,160 » And to sum up this is on one 501 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:24,240 we did like 40 sewer taps, Rogers Road. I mean, we all the way back from 2020. 502 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,760 I mean, yeah, 503 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,800 he he filed his statement damaged waterline. Yeah, waterline was damaged, 504 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,760 wasn't marked. Well, Orange County, if you look in the documentation that I 505 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,400 provided, they gave us a change order that said it 506 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,680 wasn't marked and confirm it and paid us like you're supposed to do. It's actual 507 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,360 work. Now, 508 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:48,800 what concerns me is 509 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:54,440 is the first lovely town of Chapel Hill and Carrboro and Orange County. 510 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:57,960 Your diverse staff that I work with in the field 511 00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:04,200 said they have made no comments in regards to defective work on B Boxley. 512 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,800 What you don't have is is I asked Mr. Bailey 513 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:11,680 and the engineers, "Who are you talking to so I can approach them? Where are 514 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:16,760 they names? Where are the written notices that they gave B Boxley that the 515 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:20,800 work was defective or substantial? Where is that documentation at?" 516 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:25,320 Without that, what you have is a bunch of hearsay. What you have in the 517 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:29,280 paperwork before you is you have documentation. 518 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:33,040 I can give you email change from Q and A to Chapel Hill town. 519 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,960 I gave you a permit which contradict like he said, we didn't 520 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:41,480 even give a permit. Now, we have the same thing with Orange 521 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:46,600 County. I gave you where they wrote up the change order. I ask that you reject 522 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:50,360 this offer to Stonewall who I don't know. 523 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:56,080 You need to make decision on correct, accurate information. 524 00:36:52,480 --> 00:37:01,040 Not false information that they normally falsified for some odd 525 00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,520 reason. And I appreciate your time. And if you have any questions, I'll be glad 526 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,880 to answer them. >> Mr. Wood, let me just say on behalf of 527 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:12,200 the board, thank you for coming forward and and what you have said. And the 528 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:15,480 board is going to have some questions of Mr. Bailey, 529 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,880 maybe you, and then we'll have a discussion after that. But thank you. 530 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,720 » Thank you. >> All right. 531 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:27,040 Well, this is the section where I'd like for the board to ask clarifying 532 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:31,680 questions. And we might start with Mr. Bailey. 533 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,680 Would be my suggestion. 534 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,960 And of course, I'll call on any board member that 535 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,840 has a question to ask. Yes. 536 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,840 » Uh a few I have a few questions if I may. 537 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,440 » A few questions are okay. >> Okay. Uh 538 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,000 Mr. Bailey, Steve. >> Yes, ma'am. 539 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:54,640 » Um Have we ever worked with the alternate, 540 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:57,640 the $1.2 million bidder? >> Yes, ma'am. 541 00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:02,160 » Uh have we been successful with them? >> Yes, ma'am. 542 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:05,960 » Um have they always been uh the lowest or highest uh how many times would you 543 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,560 say we've worked with them? >> Um 544 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:16,640 The one project they just completed at the waste at the water plant for us. 545 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:20,600 Uh I'm trying to think of another. They bid several projects for us. They have 546 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,560 not been the lowest price on all projects. Um I don't have an exact 547 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:28,400 number for how many they've done, but they they actually did a couple of 548 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,200 projects for us during the recovery from Hurricane 549 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,640 Chantal or from Tropical Storm Chantal as well. 550 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,920 » So, you're familiar with working with them and you're satisfied with the work 551 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,840 they performed. >> Yes, ma'am. 552 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:46,960 » What do you think is the disparity between the the bid of the of 553 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:50,000 Mr. Woods' company and the this other company? 554 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,000 » That I don't I would hate to hazard a guess I 555 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,120 guess about that. >> That's a lot of money, half a million 556 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,640 dollars. >> I do want to clear up one thing about 557 00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:03,360 the estimate. The number that Mr. Woods quoted from the bid tabulation, 558 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:07,680 those two columns on the right far the right-hand side are not the engineers' 559 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:12,120 estimate. They're the average of the two bids that were received. We never 560 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:16,320 published the engineers' estimate. Typically, when 561 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:21,080 we're bidding a project, we don't publish the engineers' estimate unless 562 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:24,640 it's asked during the bidding process. And I went back and reviewed the addenda 563 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,760 and we never that question was not asked, so we did not publish the 564 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:33,000 estimate. But back in our January presentation to the board for the 565 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:38,120 project, we had the estimate of 1.6 million dollars in the presentation as 566 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:43,440 well as the board agenda packet. >> Why do you think there were only two 567 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:49,080 bids on this particular project? >> It's a unique project 568 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:53,000 because it is something that typically a plumber would do. Doing a service line 569 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,280 like this, you actually have to be a plumber to be able to pull the permit 570 00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:00,320 and do it. But with the number of locations we're 571 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:03,960 doing, it's not the type of work that a typical that a plumbing contractor 572 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:08,400 typically bids. I think the number of sites that are 573 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:12,560 involved discourage Well, I know it discouraged 574 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:16,440 one contractor. We had another general contractor that has done work in the 575 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:21,520 past for Owassa was interested in the project and asked a lot of questions, 576 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:25,840 but they ended up not bidding it and the feedback they gave me was that their 577 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:31,400 insurance company was not comfortable with them bidding the project and being 578 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:36,000 on that many different properties. >> How um 579 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:40,520 how long is the duration of the services that are to be provided? Your best 580 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:43,800 estimate. Is it 1 week, 6 weeks, 6 months? 581 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,920 » Uh for each replacement or the total >> total the entire project. 582 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:52,760 » Uh I think we provided 310 days 583 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,240 uh for the work to get done because there's 584 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,200 we're estimating up to 90 sites if we get everybody 585 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:02,320 » 90 sites? >> to agree to let us do it. So, yes. 586 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,320 » Which takes two or three days per site perhaps? 587 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:10,040 » Yes. And and part of that is the coordination of trying to get it 588 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:16,400 scheduled and work out all the details. >> Uh Mr. Woods uh indicated that you he 589 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:21,520 didn't know who you had spoken to at the town of Chapel Hill. Can Can you en- 590 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:27,000 enlighten us, please? >> They have told me that we can use their 591 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:30,360 names. I don't know if um it's uh Jason Staley, Greg Ling, and Michael 592 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,000 Wright. >> And what are their roles at the town of 593 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,960 Chapel Hill? >> Public Works Department 594 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,880 uh within the Streets Department. >> And so, they weren't happy with the 595 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:45,160 results. They wouldn't recommend is what your 596 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:49,440 analysis is. So, how do we 597 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:52,520 uh the disparity of a half a million dollars is significant given the cost of 598 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:56,240 the project. >> Yes. 599 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:59,960 » Is there a way to um if you How long you've How long have you 600 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,880 been at WSACC? >> Um 601 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,600 Less than a year and a half. About 17 months. 602 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:09,240 » Okay. Um so, you're familiar with all the 603 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:13,960 operations and you have excellent management to oversee and discuss with 604 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,080 you all these issues. Um 605 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:23,600 Your concern is that you will have problems. My concern is is there any way 606 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:27,560 with the higher bidder that we can negotiate for a lower price? 607 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,520 » I >> All right, Mr. 608 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,080 » Yes, sir. >> think that's allowable in the bidding 609 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,800 process. >> Okay. Okay. 610 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,280 I got you. Okay. >> Yeah, and uh let me let me go around the 611 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,680 table. >> Okay, I just wanted to 612 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,600 get something clear cuz I'm totally unfamiliar with 613 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:49,520 Thank you. >> Thank you for asking them. 614 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,880 Um now I see Todd and Elmira. Elmira, please. 615 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,720 » I have a couple of questions. >> Yes, ma'am. 616 00:42:53,800 --> 00:43:00,520 » First one is um do you investigate all of the 617 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:04,200 contractors in the same way that you did B Budsy 618 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:09,000 in terms of the quality? Do you go looking to see, check references? 619 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:13,400 » We do if we're not familiar with their work personally. And I think that's the 620 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,400 difference here is that with Stonewall, they have performed work for us in the 621 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:20,480 past. So, we're familiar with their work. 622 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:26,920 » Next question. Is there as a public utility, are we 623 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:31,160 required to go with the lowest bidder? Why do you have a lowest bidder process 624 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:35,280 and are required to get three bids? >> The The general 625 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:39,400 The general statute states that we're required to award the contract to the 626 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:45,440 lowest responsive responsible bidder. 627 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:50,160 And so, the responsive part is did they complete all of the paperwork 628 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:55,080 appropriately and are they licensed? The responsible part it gets to 629 00:43:53,560 --> 00:44:01,720 are they capable of performing the project in 630 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:05,400 your best estimation? Um and it's in I think there's language there about 631 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:09,880 making the award that's in the best interest of the agency that's providing 632 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:14,400 it. And so, that's why we our determination was that they were 633 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:18,160 non-responsible based on references and their price. 634 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:22,605 » And have you ever had that type of response? Has anybody ever done a 635 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:24,640 perfect project? >> [laughter] 636 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:28,280 » Probably not. >> Okay, so I'm I'm just wondering why that 637 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:33,080 one the this one was particularly um 638 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:37,960 troubling. >> Based on the reviews and the references 639 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,960 that we had, we do not think that it'll be a successful project. That with the 640 00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:47,080 amount of property owners that we'll have to coordinate with and the amount 641 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:50,840 of places the different properties we'll have to work um 642 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:54,680 cuz they there's going to be unknown utilities on these individual 643 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,840 properties. The further out of the right-of-way you get and the smaller the 644 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:02,000 utility lines are, the harder they are to locate. 645 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:04,480 Each one of these houses a lot of these houses will probably you know they'll 646 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:08,600 have an electrical line. It may be underground or maybe overhead. They'll 647 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:13,040 have a water service. There'll be a gas line, probably potentially cable or 648 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:18,120 internet. There's a lot of different things we'll have to work around and 649 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:24,040 the history that I have from the references I've got is that um they're I 650 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,640 would expect a lot of utility hits and that's just more impacts for our 651 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,720 customers when we're on their properties. 652 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:33,400 » Okay, just from experience so the utilities come out and mark the lines. I 653 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,280 mean even the cable people come out and mark all the lines before they come in 654 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:41,360 and even put in Google you get three or four different lines. So, 655 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:45,320 why would that be trouble for a contractor rather than for a homeowner? 656 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:48,440 Are you thinking that the homeowners aren't going to cooperate? But that's 657 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:52,040 not >> Um well, we we don't know yet if all the 658 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:55,200 homeowners will cooperate with us or not. Um we're still working on that 659 00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:00,000 getting their permission to be on the properties to be able to do these. 660 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:03,720 Um as far as utilities that say like a irrigation line. If somebody has 661 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:07,920 irrigation in their yard, that's not a public utility that somebody marks. So, 662 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:11,720 it's up to the homeowners to do it or either the contractor has to kind of 663 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,520 look and figure out what it is and where it is. 664 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:19,840 But, that's that's my concern is is working on the all these different areas 665 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:23,160 with each individual property owner. If we're going to have issue a lot of 666 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:28,200 issues and it's difficult to get those resolved, it's going to take a lot of 667 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:31,320 our staff time and it's going to it it's not going to be a positive situation for 668 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,960 our customers. >> Okay, so I want to go right back to back 669 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,920 to the question I asked about the lowest bidder. 670 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,440 » Mhm. >> So, it's a hearsay thing really about 671 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:44,280 whether or not you think they can do the work 672 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,440 at the price that they quoted. And if they can't do it at the price 673 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:52,160 that they quoted and they quoted you the price, but they're going to do it at 674 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:57,360 that price, why is that a problem? >> Well, if the problem is 675 00:46:54,760 --> 00:47:02,120 in my experience, if a contractor has underbid a project, then they'll either 676 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:06,840 look to cut corners to get it done as cheaply as possible or there'll be 677 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:11,440 issues with change orders coming in trying to add cost to it. 678 00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:15,560 And there's things we we don't want this to be a project where 679 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:19,120 maybe the line is done, but it's not restored the way we want it, the way the 680 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:22,040 property owner wants it. It's just it's it'll take a lot of it's 681 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,560 it's much more effort from both the 682 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:28,040 homeowners and from Owasso staff to make sure the project is completed 683 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,760 appropriately. >> Okay, so if what a person that overbid 684 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:35,320 and is overcharging you is not a problem. 685 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:39,640 » I don't I don't know that and they're the the second bid was also below the 686 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:43,240 engineer's estimate. >> Okay, thank you. Let's go to Todd. 687 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:48,440 » Yeah, I think one thing that would have been helpful in this is to have that um 688 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:57,160 actual engineer's estimate like right up front. Um so, the other bid is 25% under 689 00:47:54,080 --> 00:48:01,320 uh the engineer's estimate. So, and mean, was kind of responding to you like 690 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,240 it's it's already lower than the the engineer's estimate. 691 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:11,520 » Yeah, I I my my reaction is I look at this and 692 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:15,800 how often do you have bids that are less than half of the engineer's estimate? 693 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:21,880 » Not not too often. It it it may happen occasionally. You 694 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:25,040 usually we have the other problem is that they're coming higher than the 695 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:31,000 engineer's estimate. >> So, that I I remember when we first 696 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:36,680 started talking about this project um I think it was the estimate was 697 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:41,560 around this is going to cost probably $10,000 a property minimum. So, I do I 698 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:46,880 do the math on um 699 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:52,560 the DEDC's bid and it's like $8,000 a property um something like that. So, 700 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:57,520 yeah, I I I'm very confused as to how that could actually 701 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:57,520 work at that price. 702 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:06,920 That's that's the perspective I have. >> Cool. Any other questions before we move 703 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,920 into comments and board discussion? 704 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:15,240 Pedro. >> Yes. Um 705 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:19,480 I would like to know if when you spoke Mr. Bailey, when you spoke with the town 706 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:24,040 of Chapel Hill, did they provide documentation or or was it verbally it 707 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,600 was coming verbally? >> Yes, sir. 708 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:33,800 » Okay. Um so, did were you or were you supposed 709 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:39,200 to contact Mr. Woods, is that the last name? 710 00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:43,120 to conform or or or see or if the information that it was given to you was 711 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:47,360 accurate or did you try to clarify that with them with the 712 00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:52,120 company or him? >> No, I did not contact Mr. Woods with 713 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:56,560 those specifics. Um that was in initial conversations. It's somewhat 714 00:49:54,040 --> 00:50:01,760 confidential with the town staff and getting their opinions on those. Um, and 715 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,920 so no, but I did not request documentation from them or email chains. 716 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,320 Um, there are partners that we work with. Um, but it's also based off of our 717 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:14,360 own staff's um, 718 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:20,000 observations from in the field as well. >> So, you also had people from the inside 719 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,440 of Wasatch that provided >> Yes. 720 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,040 » information. >> Yes. 721 00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:25,480 » That lead you to believe that? >> Yes. 722 00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:29,520 » Um, >> I would 723 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,960 » Go ahead. >> Wouldn't you think that it was 724 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:37,640 probably important to see more documentation from the town? 725 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,560 » It's I'm A lot of times it's not the town I'm not 726 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,960 sure what documentation they may have some email chains. 727 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:52,440 But they're not typically grading the contractors like putting together a 728 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:57,400 reference material. Typically is not I mean, I don't even think we do that 729 00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:02,680 typically now. Great at so it's it's sometimes there's not a tremendous 730 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:07,520 amount of documentation on that. >> The the the next question that I have if 731 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:13,480 we have a situation like this is there a was it proper for the board 732 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:17,640 to know or have some discussion about this 733 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:20,880 uh, items or the before we we uh, 734 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:27,800 do a contract with that another company. Would it be proper to 735 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:32,080 talk to the board before in a situation like this to 736 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,800 » Let me answer the question before >> Okay. 737 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:40,640 » for the board staff. No, that's not the process that we have followed previously 738 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:44,960 or or necessarily would make sense to follow at this point because of the 739 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:48,560 bidding process that we go through with the sealed bids being delivered being 740 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:53,080 opened and then they're analyzed by the staff. So, just just the way the 741 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:56,080 protocol works. This is the This is the moment when we have to make a decision. 742 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,640 » Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. 743 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:04,120 » My concern, following up with what he was saying, is influencing the decision 744 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:08,920 process is is important for us to know if others outside of Owosso are 745 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:11,120 influencing the decision process on who gets the award. 746 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,080 » And I'm not going to disagree with you. I was just going to suggest 747 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:17,080 » Cuz that seems to be what happened here. >> We move that to the discussion section. 748 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,796 » Oh, okay. Well, I thought we were talking. 749 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,880 » I'm with you. >> [laughter] 750 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:26,840 » Um this is still questions central to the um proposal. Judy. 751 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:32,600 » Thank you for the clarification. Um that was going to be my next question. Is 752 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:35,560 what was the uh um engineer's estimate? And the second bidder, Stonewall, is it? 753 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,120 » Yes. >> Uh is is still below is 25% below. 754 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,920 » Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, 755 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:47,200 I believe that you've done your due diligence. I 756 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:50,920 believe that's your role, and you've done what you're supposed to do to to 757 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:54,200 verify and validate who we're going to select. So, 758 00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:58,280 um I and and you have worked with this this 759 00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:02,160 the other bidder, the higher bidder, and it's still below. So, I think our role 760 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,120 is to >> Is this still a public discussion? 761 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,120 » What's that? >> Is that a question? 762 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,921 » I'm going to ask a question. >> Okay. 763 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:11,360 » Somewhere in there. >> [laughter] 764 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:15,000 » Okay. Your Honor, I I will get there. 765 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,120 Okay. Um 766 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:23,320 So, I thank you for doing your due diligence. This is very difficult for 767 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:28,320 you to come before us and to present this because there's a conflict. Um I 768 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:33,600 I'm respectful of your role and the due diligence you've done. I think you've 769 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:37,800 verified, and so given I think that we have to go with your I'm going to be in 770 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:40,640 favor of your suggestion. And my question is 771 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,720 » I'm waiting. >> Okay. Because I can't ask if you can 772 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:47,480 negotiate it. Do you feel that their bid they can 773 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,840 deliver on the higher bidder can deliver at the 774 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:55,440 rate without coming back with change orders? I got there. 775 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,200 » Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. 776 00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:03,160 Thank you. >> Thank you for your questions. 777 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:06,800 » Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Karen's light is on. 778 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:11,880 » You can go first if you want. >> I want to know if change orders are 779 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:14,800 allowed in a contract. And if it is, why is there a problem 780 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:19,840 with that? If it's not, it should be specified in 781 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:24,720 the contract and there should not be any work orders change of work orders. So, 782 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:29,840 is it allowed? >> Yes, but they have to have First of all, 783 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:34,760 you have to enter into a contract. What you're doing tonight is approving 784 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:40,440 entering into the contract. Then the work has to begin. In the course of the 785 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:44,800 work, sometimes unanticipated circumstances 786 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:50,240 or conditions are encountered that require work that was not specified 787 00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:55,440 or additional work than that specified in the contract. When that happens, the 788 00:54:52,800 --> 00:55:00,720 contractor notifies the project owner and says, "Look, we have found 789 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:04,840 this. It's going to require extra work. Our calculation is we'd be entitled to 790 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:09,560 this much extra compensation." And there's a negotiation about what pay for 791 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:12,280 that change order bid. There's only a change order because 792 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,880 there's discovered along way a change of 793 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,200 circumstance. It's 794 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,640 You shouldn't uh 795 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:26,920 I don't I hope you will not conclude from what you've heard so far tonight 796 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:31,040 that a change order is something that is anticipated from the time you sign the 797 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:36,880 contract. It is not. Your Your duty tonight as the board is 798 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:40,560 to determine whether or not the board's recommendation 799 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:47,760 is appropriate and if so, then to approve the execution of the contract. 800 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:53,000 Uh the board has determined that the has has made a recommendation to you 801 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:59,560 about the lowest responsive responsible bidder. 802 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:05,040 Responsive and responsible are judgments ordinarily made in the professional 803 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:09,800 judgment of the staff of the engineering department. It's usually done in 804 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:14,480 accordance with the uh the recommendation of the project 805 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,600 engineer, that is the consulting engineer. 806 00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:20,960 And [clears throat] uh one of the things I've been listening to hear is for you 807 00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:23,760 to be told uh what the project engineer's recommendation was in this 808 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,880 case. >> If there's a follow-up to Peter, can we 809 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,840 save that for discussion? >> Of course. 810 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,320 » Sorry that I went on and on. >> No, it's 811 00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:35,800 » Thank you. Thank you both. >> Um I had a question, I think, going back 812 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:39,600 to what Todd had mentioned earlier. Is there anything after the bids are opened 813 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:43,760 to prevent you from publishing the engineer's estimate? 814 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:46,840 » You know, no, there's not. I don't think so. 815 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:52,160 » Okay, and in a situation where there is negative feedback about a contractor, is 816 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:58,720 is there any reason we can't provide that feedback before it's made public in 817 00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:03,480 material such as these? It might affect reputation moving forward. 818 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:08,800 » Um as far as the providing the engineer's estimate to 819 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:14,720 » And and feedback on what areas of underperformance you are worried about? 820 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:17,040 » Um we could we could have more discussions with the contractor with 821 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,000 that. >> Okay, those are my questions. 822 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:24,520 » Cool. Should we go to the door? 823 00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:28,320 » Yeah, I mean, again, I don't know when the opportunity if we want to dig into 824 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,760 this, but as I'm looking at the two bids, 825 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,240 um the origin 826 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:37,160 » Is that a question? Oh, this is a question. 827 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:42,960 So like how much does a pitcher filter and replacement cartridges cost? 828 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:47,480 » Um >> Cuz one of them says it's $145 and the 829 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:51,560 other says it's a thousand and there's a hundred of those. So that's the 830 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:54,960 difference of a hundred thousand dollars versus fifteen thousand dollars. And you 831 00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:58,640 see a lot of these. So I guess I'm 832 00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:03,760 it seems like you know 833 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,760 I I don't know how much they cost. 834 00:58:03,985 --> 00:58:08,960 » [laughter] >> I don't I don't know the answer to that 835 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:13,480 exactly what they cost. Um but I do know that probably the bigger more than the 836 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:17,080 cost of the material is probably the labor if we're providing those. 837 00:58:17,085 --> 00:58:20,560 » [clears throat] >> I think there was a certain time frame 838 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:24,320 where we had to provide them the length of time. 839 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:29,800 » So I mean a lot of these you know it's it's valves or 840 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,040 there's one line access not provided. Okay. 841 00:58:30,185 --> 00:58:35,760 » [snorts] >> Do you know access not provided? 842 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:41,320 » That is if we schedule the way I remember the contract being written that 843 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:45,440 if we if a homeowner has agreed to allow a replacement to happen 844 00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,520 it gets scheduled and then when the contractor 845 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:52,880 [clears throat] shows up to do the work the homeowner either no shows or then 846 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:57,040 changes their mind and say nope you can't do it. It's it's somewhat like a 847 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,520 scheduling fee but it's basically a way of 848 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:04,720 trying to build we tried to build some line items in here to take out some of 849 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:07,920 the unknowns for the contractor if things changed if we could because some 850 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:12,320 of a lot of the some of the access is outside of a 851 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,320 Wasa's control. 852 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:22,760 » Mr. Bender are you good? >> Uh yeah. 853 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:27,200 » Any other further qualifying questions before we 854 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:32,280 We'll on? See if we can get public comment and 855 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:37,400 engage in a board discussion. Seeing none. 856 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:42,640 Any further comments from the public? Seeing none, we're now going to close 857 00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:47,800 that period and enter into board discussion. 858 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:52,680 And I got to look at my notes. 859 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:56,800 We're going to go around the table and I'll recognize members as we can. If 860 00:59:54,640 --> 01:00:01,960 there is a follow-up questions, perhaps we'll ask the chair to um 861 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:06,920 uh the chair will ask somebody to come back to answer it. So, let's open up for 862 01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,920 discussion. 863 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,280 Anybody want to go first? 864 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,720 » I 865 01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:19,560 I'm looking at the process that it was being done when they were investigating 866 01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:24,600 Mr. Woods. I do not agree that 867 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:29,440 the best procedure was being done because 868 01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:32,840 one, they did not ask the town of Chaparral for documents. 869 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:38,800 So, I don't think that that should be done 870 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:41,680 that way. I think it should be more um 871 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:48,920 investigated. Uh in my opinion because um 872 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:51,440 it was taken their word uh 873 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:55,640 to to null 874 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:59,760 a contract. And um 875 01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:05,400 even though there was some some uh comments from the inside of 876 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:09,240 WASA, I think the exterior uh comments were not being supported. I 877 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:13,040 don't know if what uh documents we have from the 878 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:17,440 interior from inside of WASA, 879 01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:24,320 but from the outside, I think it wasn't done properly and I 880 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:28,800 I I wouldn't recommend to follow up this the same procedure for the for the 881 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:34,880 future. I think we need to do more investigation when we award a contract. 882 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:37,720 » Thank you, Pedro. Can I move on to Mr. Bender? 883 01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:43,240 » What level of evidence? What what's >> Documentation, pictures, documents that 884 01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:48,080 proves that the person that is submitting their bid is not qualified 885 01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:53,200 and and the reasons why because if the if the town is saying that they 886 01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:57,640 he didn't fulfill his word, then they should have documents. And if 887 01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:03,440 they don't have documents, I think it should not be allowed to 888 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:07,880 to proceed those comments if they wouldn't support it. 889 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:12,000 » So, there's one the pavement repair of the sex evasion is since failed and 890 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:18,520 today town staff has not been successful at getting uh the repair 891 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:23,200 to repair the the failed pave pavement to the town's requirements. It seems 892 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:29,280 like that should be something that's >> It should be documented and it should be 893 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:34,680 some proofs that whatever the town says is true. 894 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:39,520 For for us to to adopt it, their testimony it should be documented. 895 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,880 » Okay. I think we understand that position, 896 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:46,720 yes, Tony. >> So, I mean regardless of any of the past 897 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,800 performance, um 898 01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:56,360 You know, you you try to get something repaired and 899 01:02:53,160 --> 01:03:00,760 somebody gives you a bid for half of what you say you know it's going 900 01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,880 to cost. >> Or expect. 901 01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:09,280 » Is it half? >> It's less than half. It's 46% of the 902 01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:16,440 engineer's estimate. So, I I'm coming at this from how could 903 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:20,520 this possibly be? We're seeing order of magnitude difference in 904 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:25,080 estimates. And again, this is rolling together 905 01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:30,520 labor and actual materials, but you know, one person is saying this is going 906 01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:36,320 to be you know, this is a $1,600 valve and the other is saying this is $250. 907 01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:38,120 So, >> Um 908 01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:42,840 » Who's inflated? >> Which line is it? 909 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:45,440 » Uh this is line G pressure pressure reducing valve, for example. 910 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:49,640 » Can I I >> Can I go to uh Elmira? Did you have a 911 01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:56,379 comment? >> Just [snorts] a simple uh I guess uh 912 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:59,760 comment about how you evaluate >> [snorts] 913 01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:03,440 » the quality of the proposal and not investigating the other people 914 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,240 cuz you just give them a pass because you know them. 915 01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,360 » Mhm. >> Is inappropriate when it comes to 916 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:12,200 comparing uh bids on a project. You look at the 917 01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:15,560 project for what it's worth. The people are qualified to do the work and 918 01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:21,120 everybody's qualified to look at what they offer. Rather than unless you were 919 01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:25,120 going to investigate everybody that put in a bid to see whether or not their 920 01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:30,320 work is quality, then why are you going to investigate one? That's the concern 921 01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:34,880 that I have about it. So, and and to take 922 01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:39,440 and I'm going to call it hearsay following up on what Pedro said because 923 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:45,000 unless you see the documentation, it is hearsay. To a point where in any project 924 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:49,640 and any any construction, people have change orders all the time. If a project 925 01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:53,840 is completed to the satisfaction of the town of Chapel Hill or any other town or 926 01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:57,720 any other project, if it's completed to the satisfaction of the people that you 927 01:04:55,320 --> 01:05:01,600 contracted with, whatever change orders that took place and whatever it cost, if 928 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:05,960 the contractor completed it, then they completed it. End of story to me. I 929 01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:09,960 don't have to go and investigate how many hours it took them to complete it 930 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:12,960 when I when they completed it when I asked them to complete it. So, that's 931 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:17,160 what I thought we doing here was trying to get this project completed and done 932 01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:21,000 at the least amount at the least cost. If that's not what we're doing and we 933 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,440 can just give a contract to anybody, we shouldn't have a low bid process. We 934 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:29,160 should just give it to who that whomever we choose to give it to. 935 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:33,440 Based upon whatever evidence that we are it's not an 936 01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:37,600 evidentiary process. So, clearly it's a hearsay and who I like to give it to or 937 01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,480 who I want to give it to cuz everybody's got friends. 938 01:05:39,215 --> 01:05:42,760 » [clears throat] >> Thank you very much for the perspective. 939 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,840 Going to call on somebody that hasn't spoken yet. 940 01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,960 Susan? >> Sure. Um 941 01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:55,520 the I as I follow through you know, as I as I 942 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,880 follow the steps on this, I I I can have um I have sympathy for all parties. Um 943 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,440 uh our staff has looked at the taken the 944 01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:09,200 bids. The even the highest of the two bids is still below what the engineer 945 01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:12,640 estimate is. The low bid looks too low to be a 946 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:16,480 um perhaps a correct bid or an an adequate 947 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:21,040 um uh understanding of the project. Uh so, 948 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:25,000 I'm just kind of walking through the the process that if if I had been in in um 949 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:30,680 Mr. Bailey's position, I would be looking at. I think that um so, I 950 01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:35,560 understand how he got and so, he checked has anybody else worked with these 951 01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:40,080 people and got some feedback. Um I think that where I feel like 952 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:44,040 some perhaps something was missing in this 953 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:50,280 process was the conversation is then looping back to um to bid package number 954 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:53,080 two and talking with them about why am I seeing some discrepancies that are very 955 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:59,800 different from what we got from our engineers regardless of what this is. Um 956 01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:03,320 I I'm bothered. I'm not sure that my thoughts are very organized here. Um I'm 957 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:11,160 bothered that we're having this discussion in public because of the um 958 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:15,200 because of the damage that it can be doing to to reputations. And so 959 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:19,240 I'm I'm very bothered that this is a public conversation. 960 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:24,560 But [clears throat] I also understand the desire for answers about why 961 01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:28,360 why the lowest bid was not awarded. So I I'm struggling with this a bit. 962 01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:33,160 And I I think that I mean I have some 963 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:42,000 questions as as Todd has pointed out about the discrepancy on these items. Um 964 01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:45,720 on some of them being very significant. Miscellaneous concrete. 965 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:54,120 100 cubic yards at 900 100 cubic yards at 245. 966 01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:59,760 Concrete is a commodity. It shouldn't have that much of a difference in 967 01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:02,680 in in the cost in the cost difference. So I have a bunch of questions, but I 968 01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:06,600 don't have the technical background to be able to interpret them. So that's 969 01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:10,320 where we depend on our staff to be able to do that. So I'm I'm 970 01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:13,800 rambling a little bit right now. I'm >> All good. 971 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:18,440 » So I will sum it up by saying I understand how staff why staff is 972 01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:22,000 making this recommendation. I am concerned at 973 01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:30,279 I'm concerned that that an opportunity a conversation didn't happen with this 974 01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:36,880 lowest bidder to find out why his bid was so out of 975 01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:39,200 out of sync with what was expected. >> Okay. 976 01:08:38,687 --> 01:08:42,400 » [clears throat] >> Chair, can I call on you? 977 01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:47,440 » Yes. I think with some of the communication 978 01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:51,279 failures here, it's important for us to take a period of time to repair the 979 01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:55,000 communications. And so I I feel like what would be really important and 980 01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:58,799 helpful for us to see is the comparison of this with the actual engineer's 981 01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:03,799 estimate and commentary on the discrepancies. 982 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:07,920 And I also think that we are not here just to make a decision about this 983 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:13,359 contract today, but how is Owasso best served by nurturing good relationships 984 01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:16,560 with contractors in the future? Um and to that end, I think it's important 985 01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:21,480 to provide a little bit of mentoring and feedback when things don't meet 986 01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:24,520 expectations and um really repair that communication so that 987 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:27,759 this isn't the end of the road. So that there is, you know, if something came up 988 01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:32,640 short here and it doesn't work out this time that there are future opportunities 989 01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,920 to work together and collaborate. Um so that's that's my 990 01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:39,400 position. >> Thank you very much. 991 01:09:36,440 --> 01:09:39,400 Judy, turn your phone off, please. 992 01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:47,960 » I believe uh that it is up to the staff to 993 01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:53,600 assess each bid. On all levels, both responsible uh and 994 01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:59,160 price and uh reputation or, you know, for having done 995 01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:03,520 other work. And in this case, um um Owasso is familiar with the work of 996 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:08,600 the higher bidder. Number one. So, my main 997 01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:13,720 that this point is that I think sta- it's up to staff to look at the bids and 998 01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:19,320 make a decision. And it is our job to rely upon the assessment of staff. 999 01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:24,440 Unless we have, you know, it being out of whack what the bids are, that's not 1000 01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:29,400 my job. My I've done this stuff before as a developer and as a person who's 1001 01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:33,920 done bids. It's up to staff to go through this. But they they went through 1002 01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:39,640 the legal process. I believe that Steve did his due 1003 01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:44,040 diligence. I don't think you have to write it down. I don't think people like 1004 01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:48,120 writing it down who work for governments uh and and towns and you don't want to 1005 01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:52,640 hurt anything and put it in writing. I think it's more damaging. 1006 01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:57,920 Mr. Woods probably repaired everything and did everything right and concluded 1007 01:10:54,560 --> 01:11:02,320 the job. But how much stress was it in the estimation of the town's people? And 1008 01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:06,240 that I think that's what Steve's trying to 1009 01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:10,160 assess. How much grief is this going to be? 1010 01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:14,920 That's the first point. I think he did his due diligence. I think he's made his 1011 01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:20,800 assessment and I think he prefers the other company because he has experience 1012 01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:23,920 with successful work from them. And that was one of the questions, the first 1013 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:29,200 question I asked. Have we worked with them? Has it been successful? Were we 1014 01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:33,440 satisfied? And his answer was yes. Mr. Woods is new to this process and hasn't 1015 01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:37,400 worked with the Wassa. Hopefully he will in the future and he'll be open to other 1016 01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:43,280 bids. We're not here to hurt his reputation. He's come and he's presented 1017 01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:47,880 a contra information saying that's not accurate and we've heard that and we 1018 01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:52,920 respect that. But you also have to take into account that the bid is so low. 1019 01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:56,480 It's less than half of the bid by the 1020 01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,120 engineer what they thought it would cost. 1021 01:11:59,119 --> 01:12:02,840 » [clears throat] >> The second thing is um 1022 01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:09,080 uh that it's the regardless of the details 1023 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:13,840 in the bid, that's up to staff. I'm I'm for awarding this 1024 01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:21,000 this to be two things. To be awarding to as as our staff has recommended with 1025 01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:25,120 recommendations on future processes that uh which I don't know. Do we allow 1026 01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:29,440 somebody who's bid to come in and sit down with the Steve and say, "Okay, tell 1027 01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:33,120 me about this." Do we allow that process? 1028 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:36,720 » I suggest that's a great thought. And that maybe we hold that 1029 01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:40,240 » Well, I'm I'm I'm sharing it with staff now as a potential policy. You would 1030 01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:44,760 mention this. There needs to be communication. It can't be just blind 1031 01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:47,800 bidding. Here's a thing because you want to know that you're going to meet if 1032 01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:51,760 you're bidding, you want to meet the the needs of the company that you're going 1033 01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:57,600 to work for that you're going to contract with. That's what I would do. 1034 01:12:54,440 --> 01:13:02,280 But in anyway, in conclusion, I think we need to trust staff to do what's 1035 01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:05,760 appropriate. I don't think change orders are part of this unless something 1036 01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:10,360 unusual happens. And you're going out to people's 90 yards. You don't in yards, 1037 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:14,640 you don't know what you're going to find when you dig underneath. 1038 01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:18,840 Okay? So, I'm in in these bids there's always contingencies. And then if it 1039 01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:24,320 goes beyond contingencies, that's where you get into change orders. I think our 1040 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:29,440 job is to decide um whether we support Steve's 1041 01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:32,280 recommendation and the process or not. And I think he's done his job. 1042 01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:35,440 » Thank you. So, what I'd like to do is um before we 1043 01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,040 have a chance to uh um >> to share? 1044 01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,200 » Say again? >> I think you you haven't had a chance. Do 1045 01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,160 you want to share? >> You. 1046 01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:43,640 » Well, I was going to share when I wrap up the discussion I heard from everybody 1047 01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,280 else. >> Okay. 1048 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:49,880 » But that's okay. Um I'm all right. >> You're it. 1049 01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:53,320 » Okay. I mean, do we have to make a decision tonight? Can we take this until 1050 01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:57,880 we get more information or get more analysis done? 1051 01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:02,600 » Um yes, we have to make a decision tonight. Um all I guess let's leave that 1052 01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:05,600 open for um a motion. 1053 01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,640 And so, what I'd like to do now is just kind of following um 1054 01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:12,240 the protocol is to wrap up the discussion, just kind of repeat what I 1055 01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:15,320 heard from everybody, and then ask for a motion from the floor. 1056 01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:21,360 So, I've I've heard a a variety of opinions. 1057 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:27,960 Um and a couple of them resonate with me. 1058 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:31,600 Um I understand the And I And y'all, I've been part of the bidding process 1059 01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:34,600 for decades. And I've seen um situations just like 1060 01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:39,440 this. And it's a tricky project. 1061 01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:43,320 And unfortunately, we only had two bids. And so, you know, 1062 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:47,640 on staff's part, you know, they followed a protocol that I've seen done before. 1063 01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:52,720 Um um to one comment you noted on 1064 01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:56,760 Todd about the pavement repair, you know, one of the 1065 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:59,440 homework we might have us done on that is whether that was in the warranty 1066 01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:04,320 period or not. And the extent to which that was part of 1067 01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:08,240 the scope that uh should have been done. I know that's pretty tricky from having 1068 01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:14,680 done a lot of it. And you know, Pedro to to your comments and 1069 01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:17,320 others about the equity and the way the homework was done, 1070 01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:22,172 you know, I think those are valid comments. So, I'm not 1071 01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:27,040 going to stake out a position until [snorts] um 1072 01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:30,080 until we call for a motion. And after the motion, we can have a discussion 1073 01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:34,880 about the motion. There can be amendments to it. But that's what I'd 1074 01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:39,000 like to do next. And we just need to move this on. So, 1075 01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:42,560 would anybody like to make a motion? >> I mean, we accept Steve's 1076 01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:46,520 recommendation. Steve Valley's recommendation. 1077 01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:51,960 » Great. Is there a second? I hear a second from Mr. Van Doorn. 1078 01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:53,960 So, [snorts] all in favor of that >> Discussion. Discussion. 1079 01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,000 » Say again? >> Discussion. 1080 01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:58,760 » Oh. >> Any additional discussion? 1081 01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,880 » I appreciate that. That's why I made the motion. 1082 01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:03,760 » Sorry. >> No, no, no. I need help here. 1083 01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:09,360 Any additional discussion? >> Oh, Mr. Voter, I have to go. I'm sorry. 1084 01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:13,160 But you keep on with the discussion. >> Can you stay to vote here now? 1085 01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:21,080 » I can't. But I don't want to rush the voting. 1086 01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:21,080 So. 1087 01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:26,200 » All right. >> Because I really have I have to go. 1088 01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:31,120 » So, is there any further discussion? >> Um sorry, what is the alternative if we 1089 01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:34,560 » The alternative would be an amendment or to not vote for it. 1090 01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:38,200 » And what would happen if we don't vote for it? 1091 01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:43,520 » Then we would have another motion to decide what to do next. 1092 01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:49,160 » Do we wait? >> Do we table it? Do we 1093 01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:55,240 » Do you have to have five votes for this? >> I believe if I look at the counselor, 1094 01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:58,440 he would affirm that we have five votes. >> I I'd like to make a motion, but I need 1095 01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:01,078 to wait until after we vote on the first motion. 1096 01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:03,098 » Okay, yes, that would be correct. >> [clears throat] 1097 01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:11,040 » All right, we have a motion and a second. It would be time to vote. 1098 01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:14,160 All in favor of the motion, raise your hands and say I. 1099 01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:20,800 There's three. The motion four. The motion does not pass. The four were 1100 01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:23,920 Judy, Michael, 1101 01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:28,600 Todd, >> and Susanna. And Susanna. Four. So, the 1102 01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:31,000 motion does not pass. Would you like to make an alternate 1103 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:35,200 motion, Karen? >> Yes, I would motion that we come back at 1104 01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:40,000 the next boarding board meeting with um complete information that was requested 1105 01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:42,720 tonight and um decide at that time. >> I second that. 1106 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,960 » All in favor Oh, any more discussion? 1107 01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:57,360 All in favor of the second motion to bring it back at the next meeting with 1108 01:17:55,560 --> 01:18:01,760 additional information that we discussed tonight and wanted to look for. 1109 01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:04,280 Um all in favor of that motion, say I. >> I. 1110 01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:09,600 » I. That was one, two, 1111 01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:12,560 three, four, five. >> It's actually six. One, two, three, 1112 01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:17,120 four, five, six. >> Oh, sorry. I missed your hand. 1113 01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:19,280 Six. Thank you, Susanna. >> Thank you, sir. 1114 01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:22,640 » The motion passed. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. 1115 01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:27,480 » Sure. Thank you, all. >> Is uh 1116 01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:31,600 Pedro excused so that his vote is not counted as yes on any further business 1117 01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:34,320 what tonight? >> Pedro, yeah. 1118 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:37,920 » Pedro, if you want your vote not to be counted 1119 01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:41,320 as yes on anything else that happens tonight. You should you should ask to be 1120 01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:43,520 excused. And I think the board is willing to 1121 01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,960 excuse you, but >> May I be excused? 1122 01:18:45,224 --> 01:18:48,240 » [laughter] >> May be excused. And we do not have 1123 01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:53,560 another item >> I I I motion that Pedro be excused. 1124 01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:54,720 » All in favor, say aye. >> Aye. 1125 01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,160 » Aye. >> See you, Pedro. 1126 01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,120 » Good night. >> Good night. 1127 01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:02,680 » We're going to move on now to our discussion to general item. 1128 01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:08,880 It's going to be a review of our financial management policy by Mr. 1129 01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:11,480 Steven Winters. Provided 20-minute overview. 1130 01:19:11,425 --> 01:19:13,920 » [snorts] >> Jesus. 1131 01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:16,680 » Thank you, Steven. >> Maybe I can do it even faster than that. 1132 01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:20,440 » In advance. >> Thank you. 1133 01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:26,520 » Hi, everyone. So, um as you know, we've got a financial management policy and uh 1134 01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:28,600 that Sorry. 1135 01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:33,520 Um And it includes performance measures 1136 01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:37,040 that help us stay financially stable and um and sustainable. And each year, when 1137 01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:41,880 we develop our budget, we take into account these financial measurements and 1138 01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:45,600 we typically design our budget to be to where we meet these these uh 1139 01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:50,560 objectives. At one of our budget work sessions, you 1140 01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:52,920 all asked us to uh um 1141 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:56,840 to to have a discussion with you all about 1142 01:19:54,920 --> 01:20:00,240 what if we change some of the parameters of the uh 1143 01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:03,160 of the performance objectives. So, how would that impact the rates that we 1144 01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:05,960 charge our customers? How would it impact our 1145 01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:09,760 uh ability to borrow, you know, all of that sort of stuff. So, tonight I'm 1146 01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:13,640 going to go through the what the performance measures are. 1147 01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:17,240 Uh and then at our next meeting, we'll come back and talk about, you know, if 1148 01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:21,400 we change them, what the impacts of those might be. Um and if there's 1149 01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:23,800 anything you know, as we go through tonight, 1150 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:27,320 please feel free to interrupt with the questions if you have them. Um but if 1151 01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:30,160 there's anything that we go through tonight and you think, "Hey, I'd really 1152 01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:33,600 like to see you you model a changing this thing, you 1153 01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:39,200 know, we'd I'd be happy to take that into account. 1154 01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:43,440 So, um the financial management policy is available on our website. Anybody can 1155 01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:48,120 access it. It's also included in the budget. We call it a budget book, the 1156 01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:52,760 document that that you all have I'm sure you've seen and it's on the website as 1157 01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:56,760 well. The policy was last modified in 2012. 1158 01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:59,920 Um no prejudice in that. There's there's 1159 01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:03,680 been no reason to change it. I'm not saying anything, but that previous 1160 01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:07,960 boards have been derelict. So, um there's nine performance 1161 01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:14,000 measures. The first three have to do with our reserve funds. 1162 01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:18,560 The first is our working capital reserve and these are all defined in the policy. 1163 01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:24,040 The balance in the working capital reserve should be the greater of either 1164 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:29,000 a third of our operating budget or 20% of the next 3 years CIP budget, 1165 01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:34,680 whichever's higher. Um you know what our CIP budget is. It's 1166 01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:38,760 definitely the next 3 years, 20% of the succeeding 3 years CIP currently is 1167 01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:42,800 higher than a third of our operating budget. 1168 01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:49,320 Um and so for fiscal year 2027, the budget is um for this reserve is 32 1169 01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:53,280 million. The purpose of it is uh you know, it's kind of like a savings 1170 01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:56,680 account if you um you know, it's it's meant to be able to 1171 01:21:54,920 --> 01:22:00,800 cover your operating expenses in case something bad happens, you know, we 1172 01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:06,640 don't not getting revenue or you got expenses that went way up or pandemic 1173 01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:12,080 happened, uh things like that. The second reserve is a capital 1174 01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:16,520 improvements reserve and it is um the the calculation on that is it's 2% 1175 01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:20,840 of depreciated capital assets. Our depreciated capital assets are in the 1176 01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:26,880 hundreds of millions and for fiscal year 27, the balance in that account um is 1177 01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:31,040 budgeted to be 6.9 million. The purpose of this reserve is if we 1178 01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:36,640 have um you know, a big oops. Um a few years 1179 01:22:33,440 --> 01:22:42,640 ago, probably 10, we had a project in the CIP to inspect our the dam uh 1180 01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:45,240 gates out at Cane Creek. And we're we're just going to like uh do some 1181 01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:47,760 maintenance on them, oil them or something. I don't remember exactly 1182 01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:51,000 what, but when they did the work, they noticed there was a problem and it was a 1183 01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:54,400 million-dollar problem. We didn't have to dip into the 1184 01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:58,120 fiscal reserve then, but that's kind of the purpose of it. 1185 01:22:56,240 --> 01:23:03,520 For things like that. And we've had And you you uh Rogerson Drive pump station 1186 01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:07,160 was before you all, but that was a $7 million uh an 1187 01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:09,840 uh an emergency happened that we had to deal with right away. So, these are the 1188 01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:14,760 kinds of things that that that reserve's for. The final one 1189 01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:20,520 is called a rate revenue stabilization reserve. Um it's to be 5% of our 1190 01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:24,880 budgeted annual water and wastewater revenue for fiscal year '27. That's $3 1191 01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:28,680 million. And it's intended to provide uh cash 1192 01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:31,800 flow when either 1193 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:38,200 expenses are higher or revenues lower than than what we had uh anticipated. 1194 01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:42,560 Um and this is the purpose of this one is to is to allow some flexibility if uh 1195 01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:47,720 so you don't have to raise rates in the middle of the year, you know, it so you 1196 01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:51,640 so you're not running that that tight. There is some overlap in these in this 1197 01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:55,200 particular set of policies. It's probably obvious that between working 1198 01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:59,440 capital and rate revenue stabilization. So, without any of you asking, uh when I 1199 01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:04,600 come back next month, we'll we'll have some information or some analysis around 1200 01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:07,480 this this this subject. >> I have a question. 1201 01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:12,880 » Yes. >> So, in this scenario, the minimum 1202 01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:16,400 balance is 32 million plus 6.9 million plus 3 1203 01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:19,880 million. >> Yeah, about What's that? 42 41 42 1204 01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:23,440 million. >> 42 million. Okay, thank you. So, they're 1205 01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:29,103 all So, it's belt two belts and suspenders. 1206 01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:31,240 » I wouldn't characterize that way. >> [laughter] 1207 01:24:31,068 --> 01:24:33,033 [snorts] >> Okay. 1208 01:24:32,480 --> 01:24:35,480 » Uh >> [clears throat] 1209 01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:40,320 » Yeah. >> All right, thank you. So, all of all of 1210 01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:43,920 these things would have to go wrong. >> For us to spend We'd have to 1211 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:46,920 » For us to use all of that that's in reserve. All of them would have to go 1212 01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:49,680 wrong in the same year. >> Well, 1213 01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:53,520 um you know, you you 1214 01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:58,120 Let's say that happened. If it did, we we'd have zero balance in 1215 01:24:56,000 --> 01:25:03,040 our reserves, and so for the next several years we we'd be looking to 1216 01:25:00,440 --> 01:25:05,960 build that back up. So, you know, you really wouldn't you wouldn't it's not 1217 01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:11,000 reasonable to anticipate that all would go wrong, right? It's that this is the 1218 01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:13,920 level of cash based on this, you know, set of 1219 01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,920 formulas that you would need to be able to be prepared to deal with all these 1220 01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,280 things. >> Okay. 1221 01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:22,000 All right, thank you. >> You're welcome. 1222 01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:27,080 Uh the next five of the performance measures have to do with debt 1223 01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:30,200 management. Um you know, debt is a um 1224 01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:34,360 a necessary thing, especially in a business like ours. I think I've said 1225 01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:37,520 this to you before, but we you know, we're about to invest in a in 1226 01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:40,160 an asset over at the Clearwell that hopefully is going to last another 100 1227 01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:44,400 years. Um it that wouldn't make sense to pay 1228 01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:47,280 cash for that and burden today's rate payers with all that money. And 1229 01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:53,880 that's you know, that you could carry that philosophy to other examples. 1230 01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:56,920 Um the first one on this in this bucket is the debt service coverage ratio, and 1231 01:25:56,160 --> 01:26:00,360 I would submit that this is the most 1232 01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:04,240 critical one. The way it's calculated is it the we 1233 01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:08,200 need to have in net income twice what our debt 1234 01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:13,160 service is. So, you may recall that our budget for 1235 01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:16,840 fiscal year 27 in debt service is 12 and 1/2 million. This means this means that 1236 01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:20,960 our net income revenue less operating expenses, should 1237 01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:24,920 be 25 million. Um and just to remind everyone, you 1238 01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:28,760 know, off who I'm talking about income, OASIS is a nonprofit, so what that that 1239 01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:32,760 money that's left over after paying operating expenses is used to fund 1240 01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:38,200 capital improvements programs, debt service, and uh to replenish reserves to 1241 01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:40,520 the extent that's needed. And the purpose of this one is just to 1242 01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:45,040 make sure you have enough cash to be able to pay your 1243 01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:50,520 pay your principal interest on debt. The next one um is debt serve debt 1244 01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:55,560 burden to asset value, and it says that our amount of debt should be no more 1245 01:26:53,000 --> 01:27:00,320 than uh half of our depreciable assets for fiscal year 27, we're at 30%, so 1246 01:26:58,440 --> 01:27:05,160 we're you know, we're comfortably under that limit, and this measures our debt 1247 01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:09,080 capacity. So, theoretically, you know, we could borrow uh more than we're 1248 01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:13,720 borrowing now. That would increase our debt service, 1249 01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:17,280 which would affect that first uh issue. Happy to explain that if that's not 1250 01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:17,280 clear. 1251 01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:25,440 Um the next is sufficiency of revenues above debt requirements. This says our 1252 01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:28,440 debt service should be no more than 35% of our revenues, and again, we're 1253 01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:31,760 comfortably under that, and this is another one that's just meant 1254 01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:36,600 for us to to make sure that we've got enough cash to pay our debt service. 1255 01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:41,080 Uh this one is cash financing of capital. 1256 01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:44,640 Over a 5-year period, this this policy means that we'll pay at least 30% of our 1257 01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:49,560 CIP uh expenditures with cash. In other 1258 01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:53,800 words, you won't borrow more than 70%. Uh and this is just to prevent us from 1259 01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:58,280 becoming too overburdened with debt. And then finally, our credit ratings. 1260 01:27:55,440 --> 01:28:03,920 The the uh policy in uh says we should have no 1261 01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:07,160 less than eight the the uh 1262 01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:12,160 ratings that are listed there, AA2, AA+, and AA+ from three rating agencies, 1263 01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:16,040 Moody's, Fitch, and Standard & Poor's. We're actually slightly better than that 1264 01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:20,760 um in two of the with two of the the rating agencies. And this is measures 1265 01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:26,120 credit worth- worthiness. It affects how popular your bonds are when you go to 1266 01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:30,880 sell them. It impacts your um the amount of interest that you pay, but admittedly 1267 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:36,800 going from an AA one to an AA2 wouldn't have a big impact 1268 01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:36,800 on our interest rates. 1269 01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:40,720 The final um 1270 01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:45,520 performance measurement has to do with our service affordability. We talked 1271 01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:49,120 about this in one of our budget meetings. Karen, you may remember asking 1272 01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:52,560 some questions about this. The um 1273 01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:56,760 the the formula in our policy mirrors what kind 1274 01:28:55,160 --> 01:29:01,200 of the industry average is for the affordability ratio. 1275 01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:05,840 And it's a measure of what is how how big a percent of the median household 1276 01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:09,600 income is our annual water and sewer bill. 1277 01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:13,320 So, for our policy, if you take a year's worth of our water 1278 01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:17,320 and sewer bills, they ought not be one and a half per- more than one and a half 1279 01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:22,000 percent of median household income. So, currently, based on the 1280 01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:26,320 budget you all just passed recently, these are the projected 1281 01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:30,400 um for service affordability ratios when comparing the average bill to median 1282 01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:34,840 household income. You know, we're slightly above it in 2027. We get a 1283 01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:38,040 little bit further away as we go go out further. 1284 01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:42,800 A few years ago, the board asked us to start tracking 1285 01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:46,880 instead of average bill, what's the median bill? 1286 01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:51,640 And so, as the but that's not what the policy said. This is just something you 1287 01:29:48,440 --> 01:29:55,160 all wanted us, you know, to to use. So, um 1288 01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:59,160 if you use the median bill compared to median household income, you know, it's 1289 01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:02,480 a lot less percentage of of household income. 1290 01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:08,480 We might feel good about this because we're Either way, we're either almost 1291 01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:11,600 meeting it or meeting it. Um but 20% of our 1292 01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:15,720 fellow residents in this community make $25,000 a year or less. 1293 01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:19,320 So, uh 1294 01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:24,960 the percentage of their annual income, you know, our bill is a much higher 1295 01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:29,600 percent. In fact, um it's above 5%. So, it doesn't make sense 1296 01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:34,400 and it's not feasible for us to lower our rates for everyone in the community 1297 01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:37,120 low enough to make it affordable for folks that are having a hard time paying 1298 01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:39,040 it. They don't, you know, make enough money to 1299 01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:42,040 uh to completely pay their water bills. And 1300 01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:45,840 this is why we have the Care to Share program, which helps people, you know, 1301 01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:49,520 pay their bills. And which is why we're also 1302 01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:53,240 uh pursuing a sustained uh 1303 01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:57,200 customer assistance program. The Care to Share is meant to cover kind of an 1304 01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:59,880 episode episode. Like, if I am without a paycheck for a few months 1305 01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:04,320 for whatever reason or have a big medical bill, then this is meant to help 1306 01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:08,440 Look, here's some money that that uh that can help out. 1307 01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:12,640 Folks that are in this lower category here, um it's our opinion that they need 1308 01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:15,840 more sustained assistance. They need help with their bill every month, not 1309 01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:20,080 just once every now and again. So, again, that's why we've gone to the 1310 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:23,760 towns to to look for money. Uh you know, for support for the 1311 01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:23,760 program. 1312 01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:28,600 So, um just to summarize, you know, I think 1313 01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:34,520 our our uh policy has served us well, kept 1314 01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:36,960 us financially sound, in good shape. Um I know people are always asking 1315 01:31:35,513 --> 01:31:41,000 [clears throat] about debt, but I can assure you we're um you know, not 1316 01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:43,520 overextended. Uh 1317 01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:47,280 our We have really good bond ratings. Our financial condition is well. And we 1318 01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:51,240 we uh our bonds are usually very popular in the market. And, you know, the terms 1319 01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:56,880 of those are usually good. So, again, at our next meeting, we'll talk about what 1320 01:31:53,440 --> 01:32:01,360 some changes to any of these might mean. Back to you for questions. 1321 01:31:58,840 --> 01:32:01,360 » Thank you. 1322 01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:07,880 My next question would be, are there any public comments? 1323 01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:07,880 Seeing none. 1324 01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:13,240 So now we're going to facilitate a board discussion. There's no motion for 1325 01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:16,320 tonight. And so I'd like to just go around the 1326 01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:20,080 room and have a discussion. 1327 01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:21,560 » I have some more questions. >> What questions? 1328 01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:22,880 » Yeah. >> Of course. 1329 01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:25,600 » Sorry. >> Excuse me. 1330 01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:27,960 The next set would be 1331 01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,520 clarifying questions. >> Yes. Uh 1332 01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,960 » Thank you. >> Thank you very much for the 1333 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:35,080 presentation. That's helpful. It's good context. Um [snorts] 1334 01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:38,880 I am uh 1335 01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:42,160 as you know, I I was looking forward to this because I feel like we have a um 1336 01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:46,320 the the root of some of this is with the the 1337 01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:50,840 projected uh the projected increases over the next 8 1338 01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:57,920 or 10 years that um complying with these policies um 1339 01:32:53,520 --> 01:33:01,200 necessitate and that is related to the the large capital projects that we have. 1340 01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:06,280 Um to your 1341 01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:13,840 was this when the when these policies were created 1342 01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:17,400 had OWASA seen any uh large projects oh I'm curious, you know, it's the it's the 1343 01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:20,720 clearwell, the hundred million dollar clearwell that we're trying to pay for 1344 01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:24,800 now. That's an 80-year lifespan or the last one was 80 years. 1345 01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:30,200 So this next one we hope will be another 80-year project. Um and it's kind of I 1346 01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:36,000 think of it as like the um the boa the boa constrictor that 1347 01:33:33,480 --> 01:33:41,160 swallows the elephant. It's a big lump. Um and has lots of kind of but sorry, 1348 01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:47,480 setting up my question is this. Has there ever been an expenditure as large 1349 01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:53,280 as this that these that these financial policies have been applied to? 1350 01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:58,640 » Um I think this policy was original originally adopted in 2010 and I don't 1351 01:33:56,600 --> 01:34:01,320 know what was in place before then. I think there probably was something it 1352 01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:03,640 just wasn't this. >> When was the Cane Creek waste water 1353 01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:06,120 done? >> Earlier than that, in the '80s. 1354 01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:08,280 » Okay. >> But there was a 1355 01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:11,480 » Sorry. >> There was a big project down at the 1356 01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:14,600 waste water plant when it was expanded. It was like $50 million. I don't 1357 01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:18,840 remember maybe somebody else will whether that 1358 01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:21,480 was before or after 2010. Before. 1359 01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:23,960 So I I think the answer to your question is 1360 01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:28,240 probably no. >> Okay. Because that's where my question 1361 01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:33,440 is coming from is that are we applying policies that were created for normal 1362 01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:36,400 circumstances and this is an abnormal circumstance. 1363 01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:39,760 » So first of all, the first thing I want to 1364 01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:42,960 say is I think it's a good idea to to take a look at these policies every now 1365 01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:47,760 and then and previous boards have talked about it but 1366 01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:51,880 we for whatever reason haven't done it. Um but I would argue that having a $100 1367 01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:56,360 million you know, facing a $100 million project 1368 01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:59,600 is exactly why we need these these policies. Or or you 1369 01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:04,560 know, I'm not necessarily have to be exactly this, it can change. 1370 01:35:01,480 --> 01:35:06,560 Um but it's to be able to we're we're in the 1371 01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:10,720 one reason we're in the position we are now to be able to deal with this is 1372 01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:13,280 I think because of adherence to policies like this. 1373 01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:19,360 » Okay. Let's go to the we'll get back to questions. 1374 01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:22,720 » Sure. >> Oh, sorry. 1375 01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:25,320 No, I I have a follow-up question. >> All right. 1376 01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:30,000 » The um If [clears throat] you could go back on 1377 01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:33,160 your on your screen to the debt coverage ratio and the bond 1378 01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:35,520 ratings. >> Yeah. 1379 01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:40,080 » Yeah. What are the requirements of the bond agencies for debt coverage ratio? 1380 01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:42,840 » Um it Well, it depends on what rating you 1381 01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:47,120 want. Um but generally for the ratings that we're 1382 01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:49,720 in, somewhere between Oh, I'm sorry. Bond debt service 1383 01:35:48,440 --> 01:35:53,480 coverage or I was getting ready to say cash cash on hand. Um what we have about 1384 01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:57,880 two. >> Really? Cuz the information that's been 1385 01:35:55,560 --> 01:36:02,400 in our packets is 1.4. Or not in our packet, I have seen 1386 01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:06,520 elsewhere 1.4 referenced as the um, debt coverage ratio for public 1387 01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:09,880 utilities. >> That may be an average, I don't know. 1388 01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:12,240 Um, >> I 1389 01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:15,600 it would be helpful to know that information. 1390 01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:19,480 » What? The average? Or like what the typical? 1391 01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:22,600 » more have more references to what the debt coverage ratio requirements are. 1392 01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:24,000 » Okay. >> Um, 1393 01:36:23,440 --> 01:36:26,720 » would it >> But 1394 01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:31,360 » Go ahead, sorry. >> Just it's the information that I've seen 1395 01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:36,920 elsewhere is that it's significantly below the 2.0. 1396 01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:41,120 » Could could we maybe Could I ask for some structure to this whole thing? So, 1397 01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:44,160 what I would like to see, um, 1398 01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:47,160 when we have a broader discussion on this, 1399 01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:51,360 is I'd love to know one, 1400 01:36:48,440 --> 01:36:58,320 what are the actual legal requirements for any of these? 1401 01:36:53,440 --> 01:37:02,200 Two, what are peers doing? Um, 1402 01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:07,120 and then three, uh, to what extent are we seeing 1403 01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:12,960 overlap? Um, if you go to the previous slide, all 1404 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:15,400 of these different buffer funds, um, 1405 01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:18,960 » Oh, oh, oh, the previous slide. >> I I I look at the 1406 01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:22,000 Is it Did you want to go there? 1407 01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:22,000 » Yeah. 1408 01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:28,840 Um, I I kind of look at this and it's it's like the the adage, you know, have 1409 01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:35,800 uh, is it six months of emergency funds? 1410 01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:38,800 And it's like, want to have six years. It seems to me like even the example 1411 01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:43,440 that you gave where there was an emergency, we didn't even use the fund. 1412 01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:50,760 Now, I'm absolutely for having large emergency 1413 01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:57,240 funds, but $42 million in around money. Um what I would love to understand is 1414 01:37:53,960 --> 01:38:02,200 what are the costs of having this as cash essentially 1415 01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:07,680 relative to having it I don't know in other investment vehicles or spending it 1416 01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:12,760 on you know, but what are the what are the ultimate 1417 01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:15,840 impacts of this level of working capital relative to 1418 01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:18,840 um rates. 1419 01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:23,840 Um the 1420 01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:27,000 I I I think that would be very handy to understand. 1421 01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:32,000 Um So, that's maybe number four. And number 1422 01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:35,360 five, how long does it take to borrow money? 1423 01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:38,640 » 6 months or so. >> 6 months. Okay. 1424 01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:44,440 Um I'm curious as to like 1425 01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:44,440 you know, a lot of the 1426 01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:53,160 you know, the uh capital improvement line here. So, um 1427 01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:58,760 so, unplanned CIP expenditures I don't know what kind of like 1428 01:38:55,760 --> 01:39:03,000 time horizon that concerns, right? So, this is stuff that would be planned and 1429 01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:06,880 implemented immediately. Um 1430 01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:10,240 is that specifically for what would be planned and implemented immediately? 1431 01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:13,840 » Yeah, it these they'd be like stuff that's not in the CIP plan or it's in 1432 01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:17,000 the CIP plan years years from now something like that, yeah. 1433 01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:21,000 » Okay. It'd 1434 01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:26,000 be useful to see when these have been used or what they 1435 01:39:23,440 --> 01:39:29,080 like situations where they would be used. 1436 01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:29,080 » Okay. 1437 01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:35,120 Can I go to Elmar? Thank you. 1438 01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:38,720 There's couple of things I can respond to you 1439 01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:42,360 real quick. So, I don't have to uh 1440 01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:47,720 hold you up with the answers to that. Uh there there is no we don't have any 1441 01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:51,200 legal debt limits. Towns do, we don't. Um, the 1442 01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:55,960 regarding the debt service coverage ratio, 1443 01:39:52,760 --> 01:40:00,240 our policy says what it says, 2.0. Um, it says we could go down to 1 and 1444 01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:05,200 1/2 if unusual circumstances and we've done that recently in in your tenure. 1445 01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:09,280 Um, and then our bond order is probably the closest thing to a legal uh, 1446 01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:15,320 commitment that we have and it says it needs to be 1.2. And that's pretty 1447 01:40:13,200 --> 01:40:18,840 bare bones. I I you I don't know how many people we feel 1448 01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:22,000 comfortable operating there. But anyway, that's 1449 01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:26,600 the legal. And now, I don't know you said something about your uh, 1450 01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:31,560 the peers, so I'll have to look that up. >> Sure. Just to understand 1451 01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:35,040 like are these right down the middle and 1452 01:40:33,240 --> 01:40:38,680 these still totally make sense or is this like 1453 01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:42,200 you know, we're the only ones doing this. They're so 1454 01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:42,200 » Yeah. 1455 01:40:43,400 --> 01:40:47,280 Yes, ma'am. >> Elmira. 1456 01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:51,080 » Okay. Thank you very much. >> Your report is the one I understand the 1457 01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:55,400 most. So, thank you very much for keeping up with the state financial 1458 01:40:53,040 --> 01:41:00,000 standards of the industry. I did want to know, first of all, simple 1459 01:40:57,240 --> 01:41:02,160 question. Who's giving us the AAA? >> Um, 1460 01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:05,680 Standard & Poor's. >> Oh, okay. That's pretty 1461 01:41:04,715 --> 01:41:09,560 » [laughter] >> Uh, 1462 01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:12,480 another one is the money the working capital that you have that's sitting 1463 01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:16,760 there is invested, right? 1464 01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:19,440 Uh, what do you got it in? Money What do you got it in? 1465 01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:22,920 » We're very limited in what we can invest in. It's in something called a North 1466 01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:27,920 Carolina Capital Management Trust and then we're around around 3%. 3%. 1467 01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:34,240 » I didn't even hear what you said. >> No. Okay, so it's in the North Carolina 1468 01:41:32,440 --> 01:41:36,360 Trust. >> Yeah. 1469 01:41:35,400 --> 01:41:39,040 » Yes, we are limited to that today. 1470 01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:42,840 » Um >> not limited. 1471 01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:46,600 It has to be at a bank that's and it's got to be fully collateralized with cash 1472 01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:50,000 and if there's just just some banking weird banking stuff that we have to 1473 01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:52,840 » Because of the Republic Utility >> Yeah, we can't invest in 1474 01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:54,960 » Korea Korea >> AI stocks and that kind of thing. 1475 01:41:54,495 --> 01:41:59,960 » [laughter] >> Well, we don't want them, but okay. 1476 01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:02,400 Thank you. That's That's all I had. That's all I just wanted to know what we 1477 01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:03,880 were doing. Thank you. 1478 01:42:03,160 --> 01:42:08,640 » You're welcome. >> Here are the changes we're going to do. 1479 01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:08,640 » Okay, go ahead. 1480 01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:11,580 » [clears throat] 1481 01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:22,400 » Uh in in addition to considering um the policy whether it should be 1.2, 1482 01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:27,400 1.3, 4, 5, you know, um how conservative it it should be to 1483 01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:32,720 have this cash. If we don't have the cash, 1484 01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:37,440 uh if we then we either lower rates or spending it on more capital improvements 1485 01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:42,040 and we have this unique circumstance now this $100 million clearwell. So, in 1486 01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:45,880 setting the new policy when we have our full conversation, I guess it's next 1487 01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:49,160 month and we really look at all this stuff. 1488 01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:55,440 How much do we borrow on that? Our conversation the other day when I had my 1489 01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:58,920 orientation with you um the state has a fund that we may be able to borrow 1490 01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:01,200 against at no interest. >> Or the 1491 01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:03,840 » We may not be a good candidate for that cuz a lot of people going to want some 1492 01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:06,080 of that money. Um is that right? You know. 1493 01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:10,760 » Yeah. >> And and so we're going to go out for a 1494 01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:14,200 bond issue for anywhere up to $100 million. 1495 01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:17,560 If that's the whatever the figure is Is that the figure on clearwell? 1496 01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:20,840 » Yes, but but we're only allowed to borrow $50 million of that under the 1497 01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:25,480 current policy. >> Now, um if it was just that one project, 1498 01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:26,600 we could have we could have our 70. >> Uh-huh. 1499 01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,280 » We could do what? >> 70 1500 01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:33,360 under the current >> So, that that is I'm bringing that into 1501 01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:36,920 the mix as to what we need to consider in the policy. I don't have an opinion 1502 01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:41,520 yet. I'm I'm totally open to learning about 1503 01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:45,600 this because, you know, the trade-off, you know, do you keep more cash 1504 01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:50,360 or do you borrow more money? And the And you indicated the current rate for bonds 1505 01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:55,720 at about 3.2%. And is it a 30-year, 40-year, you know, 1506 01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:59,160 how long is the bond, etc. And do you You obviously need to keep cash reserves 1507 01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:02,600 for that. Um 1508 01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:05,600 in regular business and in commercial business, 1509 01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:11,480 at those rates, you want to borrow as much money as you can cuz that's like 1510 01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:15,040 free money. Zero is free money and 3.2 is very, very low, as well. 1511 01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:20,440 » It's 3 and 1/2 to 4, but >> Oh, it's up. Okay. Um so, whatever it 1512 01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:23,200 is. And then but in with a public utility when you're dealing with, you've 1513 01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:27,280 got to You've got to [clears throat] pay. That would be if we borrowed 100% 1514 01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:33,000 of it. If that were our policy to borrow 100% 1515 01:44:29,480 --> 01:44:38,320 of it, we'd be paying 3.2 million or 4 million a year interest on the bonds, 1516 01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:41,840 correct? Whatever the bond rate was, that's be 1517 01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:47,520 our annual and we'd certainly have to have those cash reserves. What's the 1518 01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:52,760 trade-off? How does it affect the rate payer? How does it affect the rates or 1519 01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:56,600 the raising of the rates? And if those are the things we're talking about, that 1520 01:44:54,760 --> 01:45:01,560 financial planners, and they all They have all kinds of formulas. So, I'd like 1521 01:44:58,840 --> 01:45:07,240 to see as much of that how much because it will help in establishing our policy. 1522 01:45:04,440 --> 01:45:13,280 Do we not borrow enough? In other words, if it's very low interest, let's borrow 1523 01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:18,640 all we can. Um if it's I mean, that's that's an assumption. And if it's higher 1524 01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:23,080 interest, you know, we borrow less because we have to service less. And all 1525 01:45:20,440 --> 01:45:28,320 of that is How does it affect the rates? How does it affect your reserves? Do you 1526 01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:33,400 need all of that on reserve, you know, in case of all of that happening at 1527 01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:36,080 once? And I think that Is that not what our consideration is? 1528 01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:38,600 » that's where we're going on the September 10th 1529 01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:42,080 » Yeah, and I'm glad we're now considering this. I You know, I've heard about this 1530 01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:45,713 since I came that you know, the one the first meeting I was at was at one point 1531 01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:49,480 you know, it's one we keep >> [clears throat] 1532 01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:53,160 » really high. What are we at two? At two point 2.0? 1533 01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:57,080 » Yes. Yeah. >> Um 1534 01:45:54,200 --> 01:46:01,840 And so there's room, do we want to uh have a policy to make more room? 1535 01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:06,960 » Let's hold that to September 10th. >> Okay. Okay, so I am sharing the 1536 01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:10,160 conversation I had with Steven that you the other day on all these issues for 1537 01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:12,640 consideration. >> That's great. 1538 01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:15,720 Um go ahead, Steven. >> Yeah, two quick points I'm I keep 1539 01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:20,520 thinking of these things that someone else has asked that I want to get to. 1540 01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:25,080 Um first of all, and I know we talked about this the other day, we don't we 1541 01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:30,000 don't and we can't borrow for working capital. It's got to be secured by a a 1542 01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:34,160 capital improvements program. or project. Um so that could affect I 1543 01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:37,000 said six months. If you got everything lined up ready to go, it takes six 1544 01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:41,320 months. A lot of times it depends on where 1545 01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:44,720 projects are in the bid process and how many do you have and can you can you 1546 01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:47,840 bundle enough with 100 million it's not a problem, but a lot of times we're 1547 01:46:46,200 --> 01:46:53,240 bundling up several different projects to make a bond issue. So that can affect 1548 01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:53,240 the timing as also. 1549 01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:58,760 » You know, go ahead, Karen. >> Um 1550 01:46:57,440 --> 01:47:03,120 it sounds like we're kind of opening up the discussion to how do we want to 1551 01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:06,040 benchmark ourselves in the future? And when I think about benchmarking, you can 1552 01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:09,200 compare yourself to your past performance, you can compare yourself to 1553 01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:14,080 others, and you can compare yourself to an ideal scenario that you would like to 1554 01:47:11,400 --> 01:47:19,040 have in the future. Um so I think what we may not be as aware of here for 1555 01:47:16,440 --> 01:47:25,320 context is the comparison to others. Um and so I am curious if AWWA or IB Net 1556 01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:28,560 might have numbers on these specific indicators or indicators 1557 01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:31,400 that are similar that would give us a little bit of context to how others see 1558 01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:33,440 it. >> Yeah. 1559 01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:36,320 » They might and and I was I was meant to ask something earlier and I was afraid I 1560 01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:43,200 was interrupting. Um so another way to get at this is to 1561 01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:46,960 talk to the rating agencies and and you know, they'll tell you 1562 01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:49,800 for a rating of this, this is what you need to have and I've got some of that 1563 01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:53,439 information from previous discussions that we have. So I don't know if that 1564 01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:57,000 would be helpful or if you know, cuz [clears throat] 1565 01:47:54,720 --> 01:48:00,400 peer comparisons can be a little tricky, you know, maybe somebody else has a 1566 01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:04,280 lower rate, but their financial condition is is not what we would want 1567 01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:07,880 or there's something about their system or where they are in the process. 1568 01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:10,000 I'm happy to get it. I'm just posing the question. 1569 01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:13,920 » Is that a >> I just have so many questions about how 1570 01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:15,120 these things ripple, 1571 01:48:15,054 --> 01:48:19,600 » [clears throat] >> you know, how they one one affects you 1572 01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:23,840 turn you turn a knob and you move a lever and multiple things can happen. If 1573 01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:29,160 you do both or one or the other, different things happen. Um 1574 01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:33,280 I'm thinking about things like as 1575 01:48:30,440 --> 01:48:33,280 as this 1576 01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:40,320 given the parameters that we have that we are growing our budget significantly 1577 01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:44,640 so that we can eat this great big swallow this big elephant that is the 1578 01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:48,920 hundred million dollar uh 1579 01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:53,440 clear water critical infrastructure uh piece of equipment that's going to 1580 01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:56,160 last 80 years, we hope. Okay, so we're going through all of these rate 1581 01:48:54,560 --> 01:49:00,760 increases to make this to be able to swallow this big thing. 1582 01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:06,640 And then once that's done, we've established rates that are really high 1583 01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:09,480 and we don't have the capital needs after that. 1584 01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:13,000 » Now, I >> Or are you expecting that we're going to 1585 01:49:11,080 --> 01:49:16,760 have hundred million dollar projects moving forward? 1586 01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:19,720 » So I I we do do 15-year financial plan. So we're looking 15 years out in the 1587 01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:25,760 future and you know, that's a lot of estimates in there. So, you have to 1588 01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:29,440 consider that. But, um if you look at the 1589 01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:33,120 I I showed you 10 years in the budget process and at some point towards the 1590 01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:37,480 end of that 10-year period, we come back to where we're 3 or 4% 4% I think rate 1591 01:49:36,200 --> 01:49:44,520 increases. Um when you get into the years 11 1592 01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:48,480 through 15, it's around the 3%. Um so, you know, 1593 01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:51,760 there are other that that the CIP pipeline doesn't go away. There's still 1594 01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:55,400 things in there, not $100 million projects, but um 1595 01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:58,600 it's not a situation where we've raised rates so high, we're going to be sitting 1596 01:49:56,880 --> 01:50:01,760 on all this cash and we're going to not know what to do with it or have to lower 1597 01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:06,440 the rates or anything like that. It's just that's not the way this works. 1598 01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:11,960 » There are also two components here that Thank you. That that is helpful. And if 1599 01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:15,280 we were to um 1600 01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:19,600 And we're Well, we'll get into that later cuz we're 1601 01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:23,440 talking about policy right now. The um it seems that there are two parts here. 1602 01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:28,240 That there's this these this working capital or this these reserves that you 1603 01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:34,880 need to have in the bank, okay? And there's the debt coverage ratio in 1604 01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:38,920 the budget that is um And I Are those two I'm trying to figure 1605 01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:41,000 out how those two are related to each >> Sure. 1606 01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:44,040 » Cuz they seem independent to me. >> No, they're very they're very related. 1607 01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:48,560 And in fact, the the debt service coverage ratio this 1608 01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:53,160 is not 100% true, but if you 1609 01:50:50,280 --> 01:50:59,480 hit what your target is there, almost all these others fall into place. 1610 01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:03,920 Not not always. The reserve sometimes doesn't doesn't work out, but those 1611 01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:06,680 other ones the other debt ones the fit you know, no more than this or that for 1612 01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:09,880 these. If you get the debt service coverage right here, 1613 01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:11,880 you're pretty much going to be okay on everything else. 1614 01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:15,200 » Our biggest year ever 1615 01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:22,600 how close were we to the having to 1616 01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:26,680 take on the a project of this size in the biggest year ever in your in your 1617 01:51:24,480 --> 01:51:28,600 time here. Have we ever come close to a hundred million dollar project? 1618 01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:32,680 » Mhm. No. 1619 01:51:29,400 --> 01:51:35,920 » Okay. And so these these policies have been applied 1620 01:51:34,600 --> 01:51:39,080 in uh 1621 01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:42,560 in a world in which we were not taking on a project of this size. 1622 01:51:41,480 --> 01:51:48,960 » Yes. But I'd like to add that I 1623 01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:53,560 these numbers are pretty agnostic uh to stuff like that. I mean 1624 01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:57,080 they they scale up and down, right? So whether you're 1625 01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:57,080 um 1626 01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:06,240 Let me qualify that a little bit. So a couple of years last year or year before 1627 01:52:03,160 --> 01:52:10,640 um I recommended that we not meet the 2.0 debt service coverage ratio. I think 1628 01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:14,120 we budgeted it one and a half. Um because 1629 01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:19,000 everything else looked good, our reserves looked good and uh 1630 01:52:17,320 --> 01:52:22,840 we were we would have been raising rates just to meet that debt service coverage 1631 01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:25,120 ratio. Um 1632 01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:27,720 I'm not sure where I was going with that I but I just do want to point out, you 1633 01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:31,560 know, it's not something that we've rigidly or or must rigidly stick to, but 1634 01:52:30,240 --> 01:52:34,680 it was something we need to be smart about if we want to take an exception. 1635 01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:38,280 » Okay. I agree. 1636 01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:43,520 The fifth the fifty million dollar project back in before 2010 is 1637 01:52:41,440 --> 01:52:48,520 comparable almost to I mean it's close to a hundred million dollar project now, 1638 01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:54,120 but that's before this policy. So, you know, it's just it's a different price 1639 01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:58,080 tag, but proportionately it was serious. Yes, and were there financial problems 1640 01:52:56,040 --> 01:53:02,280 that that it that were created because of that that 1641 01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:06,640 perhaps led to this policy? I because we're we're looking at this policy in a 1642 01:53:04,240 --> 01:53:09,160 vacuum that it was created in at some point and 1643 01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:12,720 » I mean these are I think what you'll find and I'll 1644 01:53:11,320 --> 01:53:17,600 give you some information about it or they're pretty 1645 01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:20,200 mom and apple pie type things. You know, you might tweak with a different, you 1646 01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:23,760 know, formulas and all that kind of stuff, but the elements are pretty 1647 01:53:22,760 --> 01:53:28,360 common. Um 1648 01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:31,640 There were I mean you're you're you are mentioning something that did happen 1649 01:53:30,040 --> 01:53:34,640 when right about before this policy went into 1650 01:53:33,320 --> 01:53:38,880 place and this is where that rate revenue stabilization fund came from and 1651 01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:42,920 a lot of utilities did that still have it is that's when people was doing 1652 01:53:41,120 --> 01:53:46,640 conservation. You remember that graph that I show you guys of 1653 01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:50,640 the water sales when it started heading down a lot of utilities 1654 01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:54,280 couldn't predict the conservation that was coming so they were missing their 1655 01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:57,760 revenue targets every year. So this was one of the reasons 1656 01:53:56,400 --> 01:54:01,720 that these went into place. >> That was right after the major drought 1657 01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:03,880 of 2007-2008. >> I remember it. 1658 01:54:02,640 --> 01:54:09,080 » Don't So maybe I can clarify what I asked for 1659 01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:13,080 before. I would like to understand 1660 01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:20,440 legal requirements and peers on 1661 01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:25,320 these figures. Right? What are what are their like working capital and 1662 01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:29,840 you know, general what what are their goals? What are their 1663 01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:35,640 Do we have legal requirements on this? Um and then I would like to understand 1664 01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:40,160 the effect of this working these working capital goals on rates. So how is this 1665 01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:43,280 affecting our decision making? >> Okay. 1666 01:54:40,840 --> 01:54:43,280 » Um 1667 01:54:44,160 --> 01:54:50,760 I mean I look at this you know, 20% of next 3 years uh CIP budget. 1668 01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:54,640 So all of a sudden our CIP budget is spiked 1669 01:54:52,640 --> 01:54:57,884 quite a bit. I mean so how is that affecting working capital which is 1670 01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:59,800 affecting rates >> [snorts] 1671 01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:07,120 » when maybe like I think that would be very useful. 1672 01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:12,400 Um, I'd also like to understand how these might overlap. 1673 01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:18,120 I mean again, it's it's the question of are we being double triple conservative? 1674 01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:23,240 And this cuz all of this money is not beating inflation. If it's sitting there 1675 01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:28,400 at 3% in this I mean we're losing money with with this much cash essentially on 1676 01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:33,600 hand, it seems like. Um, I'm not saying we shouldn't have 1677 01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:38,240 cash. It's just I I I got to ask if it's wise to have $40 million in the other. 1678 01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:43,240 Um, and then I guess it's it's 1679 01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:49,120 if we were to change the policies on this reserve piece, 1680 01:55:46,560 --> 01:55:54,320 how does that then affect so you know, the the second slide, all 1681 01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:58,720 of these different indicators of that. I guess um, 1682 01:55:56,560 --> 01:56:02,280 I I don't get a sense of how much these actual indicators change 1683 01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:06,520 the board the the policy. 1684 01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:09,400 So like, you know, oh okay, this is going to be the investment, this is 1685 01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:14,640 going to be the rates. Here's how the indicators play out. 1686 01:56:13,120 --> 01:56:19,520 » I'm not sure I follow that last. >> So, 1687 01:56:16,720 --> 01:56:25,160 we're going to have X rate, X borrowing, and our debt service ratio is Y. 1688 01:56:25,320 --> 01:56:31,400 Okay, we're we're we're allowing it to go low enough, you know, lower than it 1689 01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:35,560 was in another year. It's a it's a internal goal. 1690 01:56:34,120 --> 01:56:42,080 The question is are we actually then changing rates or changing CIP goals in 1691 01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:45,560 service of the metric? I can't remember the paradox. It's when the metric 1692 01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:48,040 becomes the goal, >> Yeah. 1693 01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:50,800 » then it's a bad metric. >> That's what we're doing. 1694 01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:55,000 » And that's I think that's the fear, right? Is 1695 01:56:52,520 --> 01:56:59,720 um, to what extent are these metrics the the next slides this metrics, actually 1696 01:56:57,720 --> 01:57:03,600 determining you know, what gets prioritized, the IP, 1697 01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:08,000 what gets I mean, cuz I think that's the thing we want to stay away from. I don't 1698 01:57:05,160 --> 01:57:11,760 know if it's implicit or explicit. >> If I could begin to wrap up 1699 01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:16,200 just uh and just you know, to the point that um 1700 01:57:14,520 --> 01:57:19,880 suggest we might want to consider moving on and 1701 01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:24,560 um and the question would be have you 1702 01:57:21,400 --> 01:57:29,320 gotten enough information at least to lead us on the temp and the direction to 1703 01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:33,520 answer the questions and Susanna, you raised your hand. 1704 01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:36,400 » I feel like we're not going to have um 1705 01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:39,200 I I don't I feel like we've been presented this information and we're 1706 01:57:37,920 --> 01:57:41,120 going to come back in a month and we're going to say do we want to keep them the 1707 01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:43,520 same or do we want to move them different? 1708 01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:47,520 And I feel like we're going to need information, we're going to need to 1709 01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:51,760 understand scenarios and concept risks and consequences and all of those things 1710 01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:55,800 in order to know whether anything and and benefits as well, whether these are 1711 01:57:53,840 --> 01:58:00,520 worth reconsidering. Um without without 1712 01:57:58,720 --> 01:58:04,640 turning the knobs and moving the levers, we don't know whether there's any 1713 01:58:02,000 --> 01:58:08,600 benefit to changing the policy or what the risks might be or how that affects 1714 01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:10,560 the rates and that's the whole reason we're having this conversation to begin 1715 01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:11,600 with. >> Sure. 1716 01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:14,400 » So >> What can I make one comment? 1717 01:58:13,160 --> 01:58:19,560 » Sure. >> This is the industry standard across 1718 01:58:17,280 --> 01:58:22,440 not just public utilities but across government. 1719 01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:27,160 The stuff that he's presenting with regard to with these rates at the end of 1720 01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:30,360 the reserves is industry standard. It doesn't have to be a public utility, the 1721 01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:34,692 university has the same similar standards as far as reserves and so does 1722 01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:36,960 most other public organizations. >> [clears throat] 1723 01:58:35,320 --> 01:58:41,240 » I mean, it's just normal it's bi- it's just business as usual. This is not 1724 01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:45,880 exceptional. That's probably why they got voted in 1725 01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:48,280 years back. People have I'm just saying, it's just industry standard. 1726 01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:51,960 » Do we know that? >> I know it, he knows it and you can 1727 01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:53,960 probably look it up in the financial planning book and try the same thing 1728 01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:57,240 out. >> So, if I could come back to your point 1729 01:58:56,240 --> 01:59:00,280 since if >> I'm just saying. 1730 01:58:58,120 --> 01:59:06,160 » What Yeah, I hear you. And I think we all do. So, what what how would we get 1731 01:59:03,320 --> 01:59:11,000 to where you want where we need to be? With your thought process. Todd, and and 1732 01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:14,000 I'm not trying to diss you. I'm just trying to say how do 1733 01:59:13,200 --> 01:59:15,560 we How do we get to where you guys want to 1734 01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:20,320 be? >> Well, I guess I I'm asking for the for 1735 01:59:17,680 --> 01:59:22,160 information. Um it's basically since >> sensitivity analysis. 1736 01:59:21,040 --> 01:59:25,080 » Yeah, it's what I It was what I would love to see. 1737 01:59:22,840 --> 01:59:29,120 » And then I think if we get that and I don't know before the next meeting, then 1738 01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:30,480 then we'd have the information to make decisions. 1739 01:59:29,840 --> 01:59:35,160 » Well, that's helpful. >> I I agree. That's That's exactly what it 1740 01:59:33,280 --> 01:59:39,320 what where it comes from. It's that well, let's say 1741 01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:44,400 And again, each of them are different components to it, but if if you go to a 1742 01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:49,760 1.4, if you aim for a 1.4 as your standard debt coverage ratio, what does 1743 01:59:47,080 --> 01:59:53,440 that do to the you know >> looking for models, financial models. 1744 01:59:52,000 --> 01:59:55,258 » Yeah, sensitivity analysis. >> I'll put it in the models. 1745 01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:56,600 » Yes. >> [laughter] 1746 01:59:55,280 --> 02:00:01,200 » Yes, exactly. >> Which is a lot of work, but it we need 1747 01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:04,640 to have the input and some assumptions made. 1748 02:00:02,520 --> 02:00:09,560 That which is modeling. >> Yeah, so my [clears throat] plan was to 1749 02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:14,360 come back next time with may not meet your expectations, but with 1750 02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:17,880 attempting to meet those expectations. Sitting here tonight and having this 1751 02:00:16,120 --> 02:00:23,160 conversation, I've become a little skeptical that it can be done in 1752 02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:27,200 one meeting, next meeting, but um let's get as far as we can and see what 1753 02:00:24,680 --> 02:00:30,560 questions remain. >> Would there be an opportunity that you 1754 02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:34,800 could provide us requested some information to consume 1755 02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:38,320 for the board to consume before the next meeting? 1756 02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:41,880 » Um well, you'll for sure have it in the as in the a week ahead in the budget 1757 02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:45,920 package. And if I can get some stuff together beforehand, I don't I sure 1758 02:00:43,600 --> 02:00:49,800 don't mind sharing it. I I Sitting right here, I'm not sure 1759 02:00:48,400 --> 02:00:52,080 I can promise that but >> Okay. 1760 02:00:52,640 --> 02:00:55,040 Board? 1761 02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,600 » Can I have Can I have a show of hands that we can 1762 02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:06,680 » Oh, I just want to move on to the next item. I wanted to make a comment 1763 02:01:03,160 --> 02:01:13,600 if I may shift Mr. Chairman. See, in taking from for staff to take a 1764 02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:18,440 look if we spent more money on capital improvements to in preventative 1765 02:01:16,400 --> 02:01:22,680 maintenance, how much longer could we keep some of the equipment going and all 1766 02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:27,880 those kind of things is in part of the planning. And so do we want to increase 1767 02:01:25,680 --> 02:01:31,840 capital improvements every year? I have you know cuz 1768 02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:37,240 constantly need work. So it's it in the modeling that 1769 02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:41,800 It's okay. In the modeling, I mean well that's a 1770 02:01:38,920 --> 02:01:46,320 consideration for me. Um you know, you keep stuff pieced together 1771 02:01:43,640 --> 02:01:49,760 but this is an old system that has been >> And that's what our capital improvement 1772 02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:52,440 plan takes into account for. >> Right. 1773 02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:57,560 » That that our staff has done a remarkable job in in in evaluating and 1774 02:01:55,960 --> 02:02:01,280 planning out the capital improvement plan over time. I don't think anyone is 1775 02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:03,800 questioning that. >> Okay. 1776 02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:07,720 » The what we're asking about what I'm asking about what I hope others are 1777 02:02:05,320 --> 02:02:13,960 considering is whether given the circumstances that we have 1778 02:02:10,480 --> 02:02:18,720 with this large this large 80-year project 1779 02:02:15,800 --> 02:02:24,440 project coming on board whether it is worth making an exception to these 1780 02:02:21,400 --> 02:02:27,960 policies or changing these policies so that it has a lesser impact on our 1781 02:02:26,920 --> 02:02:31,280 ratepayers. >> That is the point. 1782 02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:34,560 » Yes. It's not I that I agree. They have a capital 1783 02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:40,680 improvement plan that that staff has done a remarkable and and detailed job 1784 02:02:39,240 --> 02:02:44,800 not kicking the can down the road. >> But they in consideration of that plan, 1785 02:02:43,320 --> 02:02:49,800 they're always using this as the measurement how far they can go. Would 1786 02:02:47,120 --> 02:02:54,640 they go further if these numbers were different? 1787 02:02:51,480 --> 02:02:58,160 And that's what the modeling is. >> Um sorry, I just want to point out I I 1788 02:02:56,960 --> 02:03:02,080 think we're unfortunately going to be losing you at the end of the year with 1789 02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:07,480 your retirement. And so um it may not be the best timing to go to 1790 02:03:04,640 --> 02:03:11,120 sort of a very technical um fancy solution um at this point. So I'd love 1791 02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:15,040 to just hear your perspective on that at the next meeting, too, on whether you 1792 02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:17,400 think any proposed changes are going to be 1793 02:03:16,080 --> 02:03:20,880 sustainable and recommended given the staff transition as well. 1794 02:03:19,160 --> 02:03:25,760 » You mean right now do I think that? >> You don't have to answer now. 1795 02:03:22,040 --> 02:03:30,360 » Um well, I think that there's um some duplication in the reserve area and 1796 02:03:29,120 --> 02:03:32,600 I would you know 1797 02:03:32,640 --> 02:03:37,080 I think it's worth taking a look at, yes. 1798 02:03:34,960 --> 02:03:37,080 Um 1799 02:03:37,960 --> 02:03:43,080 So >> I don't anticipate anti- uh being 1800 02:03:41,120 --> 02:03:47,000 uh in favor of making drastic changes, but um 1801 02:03:45,040 --> 02:03:49,680 tweaks, yeah, I think I think that's possible and and could be warranted. 1802 02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:52,760 » Thank you. >> Let me see if we can have a show of 1803 02:03:51,320 --> 02:03:55,200 hands about moving on to the next item, please. 1804 02:03:57,320 --> 02:04:02,250 Thank you. >> I had so much more to say. 1805 02:04:00,230 --> 02:04:02,250 » [laughter] 1806 02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:07,920 » All right, team. Thank you very much. Um 1807 02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:12,880 we're [clears throat] going to do a section where uh Mr. Taylor is going to 1808 02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:14,440 review the board work schedule. >> Yes. 1809 02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:17,000 » Request. >> Yes. 1810 02:04:18,840 --> 02:04:21,840 What happened to number two? >> Is it time for requests? 1811 02:04:21,160 --> 02:04:23,760 » Is it time for what? >> Requests. 1812 02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:25,760 » No. >> Yes. 1813 02:04:24,560 --> 02:04:28,400 » What happened to number two? >> Requests from board members. 1814 02:04:27,360 --> 02:04:32,400 » Okay. Um 1815 02:04:30,440 --> 02:04:34,880 » The policy review is not happening. >> Excuse me. 1816 02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:42,360 I'm sorry, Joe. Picking it up in my ears. Say again. 1817 02:04:40,400 --> 02:04:47,400 » 82 >> Thank you, Mr. Woods. 1818 02:04:44,880 --> 02:04:50,000 » That was the bid process. You're already there. 1819 02:04:50,666 --> 02:04:52,686 » [snorts] 1820 02:04:56,160 --> 02:05:02,160 » We're on F1, correct? >> We are on 1821 02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:05,880 on What do you say? F1 what? 1822 02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:08,760 » Um the board work schedule. >> Yes. 1823 02:05:07,640 --> 02:05:11,040 Review for board work schedule. 1824 02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:13,960 » Okay. Okay, so I would like to formally 1825 02:05:12,720 --> 02:05:18,240 request that the board approve development of an informational memo by 1826 02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:23,800 the Owasso staff prior to our discussion and action item that's scheduled for 1827 02:05:21,120 --> 02:05:28,080 September 10th, 2026 titled review draft developer reimbursement policy. 1828 02:05:26,200 --> 02:05:31,720 And the following winter 2025 the Owasso board and staff co-developed a memo 1829 02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:34,520 template to be used in future instances of requests for new or expanded 1830 02:05:33,280 --> 02:05:38,040 services. The draft policy proposes creating a new 1831 02:05:36,400 --> 02:05:42,600 financial management service to be fully implemented and overseen by Owasso staff 1832 02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:46,440 as well as levying substantial fees on newly connected customers moving forward 1833 02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:50,120 to reduce the financial burden on housing construction companies that 1834 02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:53,120 install new water and sewer pipes in our area. 1835 02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:56,560 In line with the agreed upon procedure, I have requested an informational memo 1836 02:05:54,840 --> 02:06:01,080 to accompany the draft developer reimbursement policy via our internal 1837 02:05:59,280 --> 02:06:04,840 written correspondence on June 4th, 2026. 1838 02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:09,120 No board members raised any objections at that time. The proposed subheadings 1839 02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:13,960 included alternative approaches, the overlap with existing policies, examples 1840 02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:18,560 from other locations, estimated implementation costs and fees, impact 1841 02:06:16,480 --> 02:06:22,160 projection including pros and cons, and ethical considerations, and a monitoring 1842 02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:26,600 strategy. Following extensive conversations with 1843 02:06:23,840 --> 02:06:30,280 the Owasso staff, thank you Monica and Fishman who's not here, um I believe 1844 02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:34,400 that the limited information consisting of the draft policy itself and the 1845 02:06:31,720 --> 02:06:37,800 endorsements that we've received today um have been incomplete and balanced and 1846 02:06:36,280 --> 02:06:40,600 potentially misleading in a few of these categories. 1847 02:06:39,240 --> 02:06:43,760 So, I would briefly remind the board that we have all sworn an oath to fairly 1848 02:06:42,200 --> 02:06:47,160 represent the interest of current and future WASA ratepayers when taking 1849 02:06:45,320 --> 02:06:51,360 decisions, and I don't believe that we can achieve our common value of robust 1850 02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:54,560 and defensible processes to ensure community confidence in our 1851 02:06:52,360 --> 02:06:57,480 decision-making without having access to the supporting evidence. 1852 02:06:56,280 --> 02:07:00,720 My request is that the members of the board make the collective will of the 1853 02:06:58,960 --> 02:07:03,440 board known at this time by verbally indicating their support or their 1854 02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:07,880 reasons for declining support for the memo preparation. Thank you for your 1855 02:07:05,160 --> 02:07:07,880 consideration. 1856 02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:18,520 » So, I think you're asking us to show of hands 1857 02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:22,120 to support what you're proposing. >> What what are you asking for? 1858 02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:25,600 » I'm asking for the staff to prepare an informational memo prior to the 1859 02:07:23,920 --> 02:07:28,040 discussion and action item at the next meeting. 1860 02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:34,520 » That includes the your 1861 02:07:33,000 --> 02:07:37,800 That sounds like a simple request. The detail that you've just discussed sounds 1862 02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:41,640 like a lot of information. >> Yeah. There's some categories in the 1863 02:07:39,760 --> 02:07:45,040 memo just like the other memo templates that we adopted previously. 1864 02:07:46,208 --> 02:07:50,360 » [clears throat] >> Can you go through the line items in the 1865 02:07:49,160 --> 02:07:52,760 memo you're requesting? >> Yes. 1866 02:07:50,920 --> 02:07:56,520 » I think you're I think your request is fair. I just want to enu- if you 1867 02:07:54,720 --> 02:08:02,280 enumerate what you're asking for. >> Okay. So, alternative approaches to this 1868 02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:05,040 specific policy. So, this policy um being compared to other alternatives 1869 02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:08,240 that might be available. >> Do you Do you know of other 1870 02:08:06,360 --> 02:08:12,440 alternatives? I mean, I'm just asking. >> Yes. So, alternative could be the status 1871 02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:16,280 quo that there is no new policy. Another alternative could be a coalition among 1872 02:08:14,200 --> 02:08:19,760 developers that works on creating private contracts. So, there are several 1873 02:08:18,720 --> 02:08:23,880 other alternatives that need >> Didn't we vote that we were going to 1874 02:08:22,160 --> 02:08:27,320 have this new policy? That they were going to work on the reimbursement 1875 02:08:25,760 --> 02:08:29,800 policy, and we were going to We've already voted I think. 1876 02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:30,200 » No, the vote failed. >> Oh. 1877 02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:34,800 » Huh? >> The vote failed. 1878 02:08:31,800 --> 02:08:37,760 » No, the prior vote is to there was a 1879 02:08:35,800 --> 02:08:42,680 previous vote that we adopted a reimbursement policy. 1880 02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:47,480 » No, we did not. >> We didn't adopt the actual policy, but I 1881 02:08:45,640 --> 02:08:49,960 thought we voted on >> to proceed into draft one. That's what 1882 02:08:49,240 --> 02:08:52,800 we voted on. >> the the go ahead to staff 1883 02:08:52,120 --> 02:08:56,480 » to draft one. >> to to redraft it and 1884 02:08:54,680 --> 02:09:00,760 » So, we didn't include in that alternatives. We just said come up with 1885 02:08:58,320 --> 02:09:03,560 a policy that meets what we passed in our motion. 1886 02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:08,360 » Yes, so we received a draft policy and we received endorsements from specific 1887 02:09:06,040 --> 02:09:12,080 people. We haven't received a memo that analyzes the effects of the policy. 1888 02:09:14,080 --> 02:09:19,160 Do you want me to go through >> Yeah, go ahead. I'd like to. Thank you. 1889 02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:23,000 » So, alternative approaches, the overlap with existing policies, so specifically 1890 02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:26,800 um the excess capacity credit policy that 1891 02:09:24,960 --> 02:09:31,840 we have in place right now. Uh examples from other locations, 1892 02:09:29,320 --> 02:09:35,240 estimated implementation costs and fees, the projection of the impacts, the 1893 02:09:33,720 --> 02:09:38,120 magnitude of the impacts including the pros and the cons, ethical 1894 02:09:36,760 --> 02:09:43,000 considerations, and a monitoring strategy. 1895 02:09:39,440 --> 02:09:46,560 » See, I thought that's what we discussed. All of these 1896 02:09:45,120 --> 02:09:50,880 that you're talking about were part of the conversation should we have a 1897 02:09:48,960 --> 02:09:56,280 reimbursement policy? That was the initial threshold question I thought. 1898 02:09:53,720 --> 02:10:00,120 And we decided we should if a developer down the road, you know, was there going 1899 02:09:58,680 --> 02:10:06,960 to be mechanism for a reimbursement to them. 1900 02:10:04,520 --> 02:10:11,800 Okay, and and I think what we had asked them to come up with is a is the 1901 02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:17,200 mechanism, but we already approved prior what failed was their proposed 1902 02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:21,520 mechanism I thought. I could be very confused. Council, do Do 1903 02:10:20,360 --> 02:10:24,719 what I'm talking about? >> Yes, I do. 1904 02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:26,739 » Thank you. Somebody does. >> [laughter] 1905 02:10:26,800 --> 02:10:31,240 » The board has decided to 1906 02:10:31,280 --> 02:10:38,360 task the staff with coming back with a reimbursement policy. 1907 02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:42,600 That that decision by the board 1908 02:10:40,760 --> 02:10:48,320 I think was based on a judgment that there should be a reimbursement policy. 1909 02:10:46,040 --> 02:10:52,720 The specifics of that policy were were not set out in that vote. 1910 02:10:50,840 --> 02:10:57,320 » And that's what failed. >> that's why the 1911 02:10:55,120 --> 02:11:02,520 the staff was tasked with going out and bringing you back a draft 1912 02:10:59,960 --> 02:11:08,480 reimbursement proposal that would include the things the staff understood 1913 02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:13,880 the board agreed about. And the staff has been hard at work on 1914 02:11:10,760 --> 02:11:19,720 that, and there is such a document that would would come before the board. 1915 02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:25,040 I understand that Karen is asking for further analysis of the impacts 1916 02:11:23,120 --> 02:11:29,560 and the alternatives before the board votes on 1917 02:11:28,120 --> 02:11:32,240 the the draft that the staff has been 1918 02:11:31,000 --> 02:11:34,960 working on. And 1919 02:11:33,240 --> 02:11:39,200 you know, that more information is certainly always beneficial. It's up to 1920 02:11:37,400 --> 02:11:43,720 the board as to whether you want to do that or whether you want to 1921 02:11:40,760 --> 02:11:46,720 proceed to consider the the 1922 02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:51,760 draft from the staff. I assure you that in conjunction with general 1923 02:11:48,480 --> 02:11:55,360 counsel, the staff has worked very hard to come up with a draft that 1924 02:11:53,280 --> 02:11:59,240 incorporates what I'm going to say we 1925 02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:02,160 understand the board has said they approved. 1926 02:12:01,200 --> 02:12:06,480 Uh and with that said, uh I absolutely 1927 02:12:04,920 --> 02:12:11,680 agree that the things that Karen is asking 1928 02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:15,440 be done further before the board votes would be helpful to the board's analysis 1929 02:12:13,720 --> 02:12:19,440 of the issue. Is that fairly stated? 1930 02:12:17,720 --> 02:12:23,960 » So, let me ask staff. >> Mr. Taylor, 1931 02:12:21,320 --> 02:12:26,200 do you think that's achievable? >> Not in a month. 1932 02:12:25,400 --> 02:12:30,880 » It requires considerable research. 1933 02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:36,280 » All right, Mark. >> How much research are you envisioning? 1934 02:12:34,240 --> 02:12:39,720 » Well, Monica, do you want to speak to that? I know we've had several 1935 02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:45,760 conversations about your previous requests. 1936 02:12:42,720 --> 02:12:50,360 That information may not be as readily available as you would think. 1937 02:12:48,640 --> 02:12:56,720 » So, Monica Dotson, Deputy Executive Director. Um 1938 02:12:52,760 --> 02:13:01,640 we've done research on similar policies uh for uh water and sewer utilities and 1939 02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:06,240 we've looked at other towns' policies. What we haven't done is look at have 1940 02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:11,840 done conversations with them about the application of it. Um you know, what's 1941 02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:16,640 the success rate of it? You know, have there any been any other unintended um 1942 02:13:14,240 --> 02:13:21,400 consequences to the policy or again, what's been the success rate? So, we 1943 02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:24,760 would need to reach out to towns and the other agencies to get more of that more 1944 02:13:22,920 --> 02:13:28,400 in that information. Um 1945 02:13:26,080 --> 02:13:32,520 the effects of the policy. So, for the alternatives analysis, it would 1946 02:13:30,640 --> 02:13:35,600 definitely be helpful uh 1947 02:13:33,440 --> 02:13:38,760 to understand what other alternatives that the board's aware of. Um we looked 1948 02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:43,360 at other ways that the mechanisms that we 1949 02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:48,800 looked at meet the growth pace for growth principle. So, um if there other 1950 02:13:46,560 --> 02:13:52,760 mechanisms that the board wants to pursue us or other alternatives that you 1951 02:13:51,200 --> 02:13:55,080 want us to look at within that, we know we can certainly do that. So, you said 1952 02:13:53,920 --> 02:14:00,640 that sound like you said there's like a status quo. There's partnerships with 1953 02:13:58,520 --> 02:14:04,440 other developers. I guess maybe when we do our research, we can we can also see 1954 02:14:02,440 --> 02:14:09,320 if there's other ways that that towns or cities are accomplishing this, but um we 1955 02:14:07,360 --> 02:14:13,200 weren't readily aware of any other alternatives. So, to answer the 1956 02:14:11,400 --> 02:14:16,840 question, I think we're going to have to do more research on uh what other 1957 02:14:15,480 --> 02:14:20,800 alternatives might be out there. Certainly, do some more extensive 1958 02:14:19,000 --> 02:14:24,000 research with the application of the policy within 1959 02:14:22,440 --> 02:14:28,480 towns and and other water and sewer utilities. 1960 02:14:29,080 --> 02:14:34,160 Yeah, I didn't get all of the things that 1961 02:14:32,600 --> 02:14:37,960 you're looking for in that. So, I think what what I would want to do is take 1962 02:14:36,440 --> 02:14:41,960 some time to kind of go through that, better understand if this is something 1963 02:14:39,960 --> 02:14:45,400 the board would like to pursue, what would the board members want to see out 1964 02:14:44,040 --> 02:14:48,800 of that so then we can give a better estimate. So, 1965 02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:51,760 based on what I see now, I don't think we could do it within a month. But, I 1966 02:14:50,520 --> 02:14:55,440 would want to make sure that whatever we did met all the board members' 1967 02:14:53,080 --> 02:14:59,240 expectations. >> So, I think 1968 02:14:56,640 --> 02:15:03,840 what we need to do as a board is to agree to go ahead 1969 02:15:01,400 --> 02:15:08,200 with Harris' proposal to defer it past the September 10th 1970 02:15:07,320 --> 02:15:10,520 meeting. >> Yeah. 1971 02:15:10,000 --> 02:15:13,640 » So, again. >> I'm sorry. I'll wait till you're done. 1972 02:15:11,960 --> 02:15:15,960 I'm going to ask respond to what you're saying. 1973 02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:21,840 » Okay, great. Um >> Mr. Chair, normally requests and 1974 02:15:18,440 --> 02:15:26,200 petitions from board members would follow a process 1975 02:15:24,320 --> 02:15:30,640 where you all decide if So, it would take five members to decide 1976 02:15:28,440 --> 02:15:34,840 you want to advance that request and then it's referred to staff to do 1977 02:15:32,600 --> 02:15:39,400 exactly what Monica suggested, which would be to to try and 1978 02:15:37,160 --> 02:15:45,600 determine how long it would take us to address the request. So, I think the 1979 02:15:41,320 --> 02:15:49,200 first item is to determine if there is a majority of the board that wants to 1980 02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:52,920 pursue the request. >> Exactly where I was going, but thank you 1981 02:15:50,640 --> 02:15:56,600 for saying it better than I did. Appreciate that. So, that's where I was 1982 02:15:54,680 --> 02:16:01,320 going to go. I was going to suggest now we have a vote and see 1983 02:15:59,640 --> 02:16:04,040 from the board members that are here >> Well, there's no second Is this a 1984 02:16:02,560 --> 02:16:06,160 motion? It's a request. 1985 02:16:04,880 --> 02:16:10,640 » Okay. >> If If I respond to that, we have 1986 02:16:08,640 --> 02:16:15,480 already, in my opinion, said that we're going to have a reimbursement policy. 1987 02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:21,280 Considering alternatives or considering status quo is opposite to what we've 1988 02:16:18,080 --> 02:16:25,960 already agreed to move forward. What And I think more information is great. I 1989 02:16:23,440 --> 02:16:30,040 don't oppose that. But but the how expansive it is is making an 1990 02:16:28,320 --> 02:16:34,480 assumption that we would actually reverse what we have already decided to 1991 02:16:32,200 --> 02:16:40,040 do, which is to create a reimbursement policy and not maintain the status quo. 1992 02:16:37,360 --> 02:16:45,400 So, I would oppose those portions of it that you're requesting that are so broad 1993 02:16:42,800 --> 02:16:50,000 to because we have a development community. Our job 1994 02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:56,080 is to Our job is to represent the ratepayers, not the developers, 1995 02:16:53,639 --> 02:17:01,760 not the town of Chapel Hill or Carrboro, the ratepayers in the 22,000 people uh 1996 02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:06,000 uh accounts and the people involved. That's our job. 1997 02:17:03,480 --> 02:17:10,519 And they're paying a lot of money, and I've asked the question many times, if 1998 02:17:08,200 --> 02:17:16,480 we have more ratepayers, we certainly have the capacity, can we uh if we have 1999 02:17:13,760 --> 02:17:20,760 more development, are there more people to share in these rates and to pay the 2000 02:17:18,840 --> 02:17:24,880 bills? Cuz that's our only source of money. And we, based on the 2001 02:17:22,920 --> 02:17:32,120 conversation, we passed the threshold issue. So, 2002 02:17:28,280 --> 02:17:37,000 I think that delaying this is not fair to the ratepayers, nor to the developers 2003 02:17:34,840 --> 02:17:42,200 who are sitting there wanting to spend tens of millions of dollars to bring 2004 02:17:39,599 --> 02:17:47,200 utilities. How do they get fairly reimbursed? How do other towns, other 2005 02:17:44,559 --> 02:17:52,800 communities deal with it? And that was the mechanism we've asked the staff, and 2006 02:17:50,040 --> 02:17:57,719 we voted on to have the staff pursue for us. We did when we did the threshold 2007 02:17:54,920 --> 02:18:03,559 issue. So, I'd like to keep that moving forward. I don't represent developers. 2008 02:18:00,559 --> 02:18:07,719 I am represent taxpayers, and things get stalled here so long with so much study 2009 02:18:06,320 --> 02:18:12,719 and then looking for counter and counter. You voted against 2010 02:18:10,719 --> 02:18:16,480 moving forward with any mechanism and I'm respectful of that. But I don't want 2011 02:18:15,160 --> 02:18:20,679 this recommendation 2012 02:18:18,360 --> 02:18:25,320 to be a way to stall the process cuz I don't think that's fair. There were four 2013 02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:31,000 votes for, it would have passed but we needed five. By September there will be 2014 02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:35,280 five votes is my guess. And it will pass under some mechanism that's recommended. 2015 02:18:33,200 --> 02:18:39,760 And I'm just saying I I'm for some of your proposal and others I oppose 2016 02:18:37,760 --> 02:18:43,599 because it's down a rabbit hole we've already decided not to go. 2017 02:18:42,639 --> 02:18:48,719 » All right. How many of us would vote to move 2018 02:18:45,920 --> 02:18:53,440 forward with Terrence's recommendation and allow the staff time to 2019 02:18:51,719 --> 02:18:59,400 do some more research. I'm likely not meet the September 10th 2020 02:18:55,880 --> 02:18:59,400 deadline and bring it back. 2021 02:18:59,555 --> 02:19:03,920 » [snorts] >> Show of hands, please. 2022 02:19:03,120 --> 02:19:07,080 » To What what are we voting on exactly? Like 2023 02:19:06,320 --> 02:19:10,480 the problem is >> The The request that the staff have 2024 02:19:08,679 --> 02:19:13,880 permission to prepare a memo. >> Right, but you read off like there's 2025 02:19:12,639 --> 02:19:18,440 like 20 points on the memo. >> There are not 20 points. There's seven 2026 02:19:16,200 --> 02:19:20,440 subheadings which is similar to the memo template we've already adopted last 2027 02:19:20,000 --> 02:19:25,800 fall. >> So so are we talking about all seven of 2028 02:19:22,840 --> 02:19:28,880 those that we're voting on including the the status quo? 2029 02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:32,120 » Judy has suggested that she does not want to consider any alternative 2030 02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:35,320 approaches besides this policy or no policy. She She believes those are the 2031 02:19:34,160 --> 02:19:36,760 only two approaches we need to be considering. 2032 02:19:35,679 --> 02:19:39,519 » I think we are >> I think she was not saying that. I think 2033 02:19:38,120 --> 02:19:42,559 she was saying um 2034 02:19:40,400 --> 02:19:47,000 a pol- this policy or another policy, but no change in policy has already been 2035 02:19:44,920 --> 02:19:51,920 voted on. >> What's wrong with asking providing 2036 02:19:49,520 --> 02:19:55,000 clarification? What's the problem? Oh, there's what's the problem with 2037 02:19:53,680 --> 02:19:58,080 getting clarification? >> Yeah, none. For a decision for a 2038 02:19:56,760 --> 02:19:59,120 decision that we not have been made later. 2039 02:19:58,560 --> 02:20:04,000 » Well, >> cuz that's what she's asking for. 2040 02:20:00,680 --> 02:20:09,160 » I've I've objected to including in that the status quo or alternatives. We've 2041 02:20:06,840 --> 02:20:10,800 already decided on a policy. So, why would we 2042 02:20:09,720 --> 02:20:14,240 » We decided to move forward with a policy. That doesn't mean this specific 2043 02:20:12,600 --> 02:20:18,400 policy is the only policy that could exist. 2044 02:20:14,920 --> 02:20:21,600 » Well, the we did say we do a what is it called? A reimbursement 2045 02:20:19,800 --> 02:20:26,680 policy. We voted on a reimbursement policy, not an alternative and not a 2046 02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:33,040 status quo. A a a moving forward establishing a mechanism. That is what 2047 02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:35,640 we voted on in my recollection or maybe my memory's gone. 2048 02:20:34,400 --> 02:20:38,880 » There's no room for this policy to change at this point. 2049 02:20:36,680 --> 02:20:42,080 » can't No, no, we have no policy as far as 2050 02:20:39,640 --> 02:20:46,200 what the mechanism is. That's what we've asked them to do is come back with lots 2051 02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:51,520 of information. What's the mechanism that is fair that we proposed to the 2052 02:20:49,160 --> 02:20:56,080 developers and they came in with various things that had to do Did it include 2053 02:20:53,360 --> 02:21:00,680 interest? Did it include a variety of things? And we looked at it and we said, 2054 02:20:58,200 --> 02:21:06,120 "Go back, you know, talk to all these stakeholders and come back with a 2055 02:21:02,800 --> 02:21:08,280 mechanism that we can then address and vote on." 2056 02:21:07,200 --> 02:21:13,480 And so, an alternative to it that mechanism for 2057 02:21:11,240 --> 02:21:19,800 reimbursement or status quo having no mechanism is not it 2058 02:21:17,560 --> 02:21:24,080 would be going backwards to asking for something we've already that isn't on 2059 02:21:21,480 --> 02:21:24,080 the table. 2060 02:21:24,920 --> 02:21:29,000 » There there's no guarantee of approval of this. 2061 02:21:27,400 --> 02:21:33,640 Though, I I have to point that out. So, the status quo is a future possibility. 2062 02:21:31,560 --> 02:21:38,160 » I I would say that when we voted for a mechanism, 2063 02:21:35,240 --> 02:21:43,920 more than five people voted and and we we know that developers want to put 2064 02:21:41,160 --> 02:21:47,640 infrastructure in at their expense with a reimbursement policy, a mechanism to 2065 02:21:46,680 --> 02:21:50,520 be reimbursed. >> Wait, if you believe there's no 2066 02:21:48,720 --> 02:21:53,480 information in the world that exists that could possibly change your mind 2067 02:21:51,920 --> 02:21:57,720 about what's in that policy. >> What I know in the world Oh. 2068 02:21:55,680 --> 02:22:02,480 I I don't need to use AI and I know there's not an alternative or a status 2069 02:22:00,440 --> 02:22:04,840 quo that will work for putting in infrastructure and 2070 02:22:03,840 --> 02:22:08,360 reimbursing >> Okay, that's how you feel. That's fine. 2071 02:22:06,040 --> 02:22:11,080 » That's how I feel. Now, the other >> for the future and that's all 2072 02:22:09,160 --> 02:22:14,640 » No, yeah, and I don't think we we're reversing That would be reversing it, in 2073 02:22:13,320 --> 02:22:18,760 my opinion. Those two particular points. The other 2074 02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:23,360 information, let's research it. >> So, we have 2075 02:22:20,120 --> 02:22:23,360 multiple polar perspectives. 2076 02:22:24,040 --> 02:22:29,880 » I I don't understand We aren't talking about voting. We're 2077 02:22:27,960 --> 02:22:33,280 talking about getting information. >> Correct. That informs our ability to 2078 02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:34,920 make a decision. >> Moving forward 2079 02:22:34,560 --> 02:22:37,960 » Yeah. >> with the request 2080 02:22:36,160 --> 02:22:42,080 » Yeah. >> for more information 2081 02:22:40,320 --> 02:22:45,400 to thereby defer a vote on September 10th. 2082 02:22:45,600 --> 02:22:47,960 So, the >> What's the rush? 2083 02:22:47,200 --> 02:22:49,960 » I We've >> I could do it like rappers say, "What's 2084 02:22:49,520 --> 02:22:52,720 the rush?" >> We've had a single memo 2085 02:22:51,320 --> 02:22:56,440 without any memo informing our discussion. And I've had to ask for 2086 02:22:54,560 --> 02:23:00,000 hours conversations questions to Monica over and over 2087 02:22:58,000 --> 02:23:04,000 because we have not had a well-prepared memo going into a discussion yet. 2088 02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:06,200 » But, they're going to give us one next >> I would like this not to be wasting my 2089 02:23:05,360 --> 02:23:10,160 time, either. >> But, okay. 2090 02:23:08,040 --> 02:23:15,640 It is interesting that the people who've already voted no against having any 2091 02:23:12,240 --> 02:23:20,040 policy are for stalling this and delaying it. And I think it's a delay 2092 02:23:17,480 --> 02:23:23,640 » accusation, but it's not an attack. >> I'm actually I spent years studying 2093 02:23:22,160 --> 02:23:27,240 evidence-based policy and I don't think that's what we're doing here. And and I 2094 02:23:25,360 --> 02:23:29,840 have an issue with it and that's my ethics and that's my values that I have 2095 02:23:28,760 --> 02:23:31,760 to uphold for myself. So, I don't appreciate that. 2096 02:23:30,320 --> 02:23:35,480 » And I'm respectful of that. >> You're not. 2097 02:23:32,240 --> 02:23:38,240 » But, I am saying the two things you said >> There's a proposal 2098 02:23:37,680 --> 02:23:43,560 uh before the board and you asked for votes 2099 02:23:40,560 --> 02:23:49,480 and I think people started to vote. But, uh I suggest that 2100 02:23:46,640 --> 02:23:54,200 arguments at this level are not useful and that you go ahead and vote and see 2101 02:23:51,640 --> 02:23:57,400 if there five votes for proceeding 2102 02:23:56,440 --> 02:24:02,960 uh with Karen Turkquist or not. If they are 2103 02:23:59,560 --> 02:24:07,160 not then the matter is not still on the table. 2104 02:24:04,520 --> 02:24:10,960 » Let's proceed with the vote. All in favor of Karen's request, raise 2105 02:24:09,000 --> 02:24:14,000 your hands, please. Say aye. >> Aye. 2106 02:24:13,000 --> 02:24:18,720 » Three Three votes for it. 2107 02:24:15,560 --> 02:24:18,720 All opposed, say nay. 2108 02:24:19,680 --> 02:24:24,840 Three votes against. So, Karen, it did not pass. 2109 02:24:22,600 --> 02:24:24,840 » Mhm. 2110 02:24:25,000 --> 02:24:27,840 » Thank you for suggesting it. 2111 02:24:27,960 --> 02:24:34,280 Pat Taylor is now going to review the board work schedule. 2112 02:24:30,880 --> 02:24:38,520 » Yes. Uh reflecting back on the board's earlier discussion about the um 2113 02:24:36,760 --> 02:24:43,800 effective governance training that was canceled for today 2114 02:24:40,840 --> 02:24:48,360 um and trying to determine what needs to happen next 2115 02:24:45,960 --> 02:24:52,040 with the August 27th. I would like some direction 2116 02:24:49,800 --> 02:24:57,600 from the board on whether we're proceeding with a training on August 2117 02:24:54,760 --> 02:25:00,360 27th or we pursuing [clears throat] other dates. And I would remind you all 2118 02:24:59,320 --> 02:25:05,200 that uh we also have to coordinate those 2119 02:25:02,440 --> 02:25:09,720 dates with the consultant uh to be able to have their availability as well. 2120 02:25:10,840 --> 02:25:18,120 » I think that if it is important for these three sessions to happen in order 2121 02:25:16,240 --> 02:25:22,960 that uh you just have to go back to the drawing board and ask the consultants 2122 02:25:20,360 --> 02:25:28,240 what the next three dates are for um if they don't have to be in order 2123 02:25:25,880 --> 02:25:33,800 then you know, the 20 then poll the 2124 02:25:31,840 --> 02:25:38,680 the rest of the board for whether they're available on the 27th or not. Um 2125 02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:43,680 » Well, we can all we know several board members will not be available. And the 2126 02:25:40,880 --> 02:25:47,680 requirement for non-board members to be there is going to present a 2127 02:25:46,120 --> 02:25:52,640 » It's going to be a challenge regardless. >> That is almost insurmountable. 2128 02:25:50,680 --> 02:25:55,840 » Well, that's what the chair said. >> I'm sorry, say it again, please. 2129 02:25:53,840 --> 02:25:59,560 » You said it. All nine people had to be there. 2130 02:25:56,440 --> 02:26:03,760 » I think that I I cannot understand moving forward with a series like this 2131 02:26:01,800 --> 02:26:06,040 without all nine board members. >> So, that there isn't a rule? 2132 02:26:05,520 --> 02:26:09,600 » Say again? >> I said that's the rule then, right? I 2133 02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:12,480 nine nine of nine. >> I would gently push back on that. I mean 2134 02:26:11,760 --> 02:26:16,360 » Push back? >> I I'm not going to be on the board after 2135 02:26:14,280 --> 02:26:20,720 a year. So, like I mean we're we're we're spending months making, you know, 2136 02:26:18,320 --> 02:26:25,160 doing workshops. Like I I'm term limited out. So, like we're nine board, you're 2137 02:26:23,320 --> 02:26:28,920 going to have a new board eventually. So, I think it we we could relax that 2138 02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:31,511 requirement. I mean, I can't remember the last meeting where all nine people 2139 02:26:30,800 --> 02:26:33,920 were here. >> [laughter] 2140 02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:39,280 » How do you all feel about >> I think it's unrealistic to to try to 2141 02:26:36,920 --> 02:26:40,880 schedule three events with all nine board members. 2142 02:26:40,080 --> 02:26:45,440 » Okay. >> And I think that it that we just need to 2143 02:26:43,120 --> 02:26:51,720 get this we need some training, we need some materials, and and we need to 2144 02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:54,640 collectively move forward. So, I would encourage you not to have that as your 2145 02:26:53,920 --> 02:27:00,000 bar. >> Okay, I would accept the encouragement. 2146 02:26:56,640 --> 02:27:00,000 What's the minimum threshold? 2147 02:27:00,400 --> 02:27:04,960 » Majority rule. I Well, I would >> [laughter] 2148 02:27:03,200 --> 02:27:09,680 » I would say goal the goal would be seven. 2149 02:27:06,640 --> 02:27:13,400 Um seven of nine seems like a a significant amount. The goal would be 2150 02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:18,080 seven. I'm not saying that's a hard fast rule, 2151 02:27:15,560 --> 02:27:22,320 but um you know, if you get less than six, then you know, you really are 2152 02:27:20,200 --> 02:27:27,120 dwindling in terms of the ability of the organization of the of the board to 2153 02:27:25,480 --> 02:27:30,120 to gain knowledge and work together and learn how to be more productive. 2154 02:27:29,440 --> 02:27:34,200 » Okay, I I accept that. 2155 02:27:32,080 --> 02:27:34,200 » Oh. 2156 02:27:35,040 --> 02:27:42,400 » So, between the six of us, we'll set a threshold of 2157 02:27:42,907 --> 02:27:48,160 » [laughter] >> seven? Six. 2158 02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:48,160 » Right. 2159 02:27:48,280 --> 02:27:55,080 I'm I'm just kidding. Cuz we could have had the meeting today. 2160 02:27:52,800 --> 02:27:55,080 » Yep. 2161 02:27:57,000 --> 02:28:00,280 » Help me with this and stay on schedule. >> I I would 2162 02:27:59,640 --> 02:28:01,360 » Seven. >> Seven. 2163 02:28:00,840 --> 02:28:06,240 » Seven. >> Aim for seven. And if you can't get 2164 02:28:03,600 --> 02:28:09,720 seven, see if six will I mean, it's just like with this many people 2165 02:28:08,440 --> 02:28:14,240 » We'll get what we can. >> You get the most you can. And if it's 2166 02:28:12,480 --> 02:28:19,360 important for those three things to happen in order, then 2167 02:28:16,840 --> 02:28:21,880 the 27th could be one of the dates or 2168 02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:25,840 move onward. >> Okay, can you also video it so that the 2169 02:28:24,000 --> 02:28:29,520 people that miss can go back and see what happened? 2170 02:28:27,840 --> 02:28:32,200 » I think the material I don't know. I don't know. I I was 2171 02:28:30,720 --> 02:28:35,200 » If If you really care about them learning it, 2172 02:28:33,400 --> 02:28:37,680 why not video and let them see? >> I would defer that to others. I wouldn't 2173 02:28:37,480 --> 02:28:40,400 make that >> I would say participation 2174 02:28:39,640 --> 02:28:45,760 would be critical in the actual conversations 2175 02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:48,560 rather than just observing. >> But some knowledge is better than none. 2176 02:28:48,407 --> 02:28:51,720 » [laughter] >> I mean, it wouldn't be a bad idea to 2177 02:28:49,960 --> 02:28:54,680 have it videoed if we could, just even for memory. 2178 02:28:52,680 --> 02:28:58,080 » We can do that. >> So, Todd, I think we have marching 2179 02:28:56,760 --> 02:29:01,720 orders. >> So, August 27th, 2180 02:28:59,960 --> 02:29:06,520 we will see if we have seven board members available for that date and then 2181 02:29:05,640 --> 02:29:08,920 go from there. >> The 27th of August. 2182 02:29:08,000 --> 02:29:13,160 » Yes. >> Yeah, I'm trying to be Fs. 2183 02:29:11,988 --> 02:29:15,720 » [laughter] >> Just kidding. 2184 02:29:14,320 --> 02:29:21,600 » Thanks. >> Um September 10th, we do have uh quite a 2185 02:29:19,640 --> 02:29:27,360 quite a lengthy agenda there. As was discussed earlier, 2186 02:29:23,440 --> 02:29:31,080 uh we will uh move the um the uh 2187 02:29:28,560 --> 02:29:34,560 galvanized service line replacement item to that agenda for further discussion 2188 02:29:33,000 --> 02:29:39,240 and bring back the information if board asked for. 2189 02:29:36,120 --> 02:29:43,760 At that same meeting we also have the just talked about the draft development 2190 02:29:41,400 --> 02:29:46,680 reimbursement policy. We'll continue the discussion on the financial management 2191 02:29:45,360 --> 02:29:51,720 policy. We also are going to have a review for 2192 02:29:49,200 --> 02:29:56,320 you all on University Lake extension of services policy. And just briefly on 2193 02:29:54,120 --> 02:30:01,120 that we do expect that we're going to receive a petition from the 2194 02:29:58,200 --> 02:30:05,280 state. There are some billing wells out in the 2195 02:30:03,080 --> 02:30:10,840 area of the old Towers gas station out on 54 that have 2196 02:30:08,480 --> 02:30:14,600 become contaminated from some of that. And we do expect that the state 2197 02:30:12,840 --> 02:30:18,960 approaching us about extending services out there. So we're thinking that might 2198 02:30:16,720 --> 02:30:23,440 be coming in October. And I wanted to give you all an overview of the policies 2199 02:30:21,320 --> 02:30:28,160 that dictate extension of services in that area. 2200 02:30:26,320 --> 02:30:32,680 » And who pays for them? >> Yes, this would be a state funded 2201 02:30:30,200 --> 02:30:37,040 project, but there are specific policies we have on development out in the 2202 02:30:35,000 --> 02:30:41,640 University Research Park. So we have that on there. We'll have an 2203 02:30:38,920 --> 02:30:44,560 update on our developer community engagement. 2204 02:30:43,160 --> 02:30:48,800 And then 12-month calendar if you all look ahead 2205 02:30:47,280 --> 02:30:52,800 having questions on that it's in your packet as well. 2206 02:30:50,640 --> 02:30:52,800 » Okay. 2207 02:30:54,000 --> 02:31:00,640 Any questions from board members about the schedule? 2208 02:30:58,600 --> 02:31:04,880 If not summary of our board meeting on your schedule. 2209 02:31:02,120 --> 02:31:09,560 » Yes, I I mentioned one about moving on the gallon service line replacement to 2210 02:31:07,000 --> 02:31:14,320 the next meeting. We also had a request to schedule board presentation on 2211 02:31:11,200 --> 02:31:20,160 professional services procurement. And we will look for an appropriate time to 2212 02:31:17,080 --> 02:31:20,160 get that scheduled as well. 2213 02:31:21,080 --> 02:31:26,520 » I don't think you missed anything. Thank you. 2214 02:31:24,960 --> 02:31:29,960 If there are no other business for the board, 2215 02:31:28,520 --> 02:31:32,000 are there any other business for the board? 2216 02:31:30,600 --> 02:31:35,240 If not, without objection, the board of 2217 02:31:33,040 --> 02:31:39,640 directors will be in a closed session to discuss confidential information 2218 02:31:37,240 --> 02:31:44,240 regarding cybersecurity in accordance with NC General Statutes 143-318.11.a.9. 2219 02:31:47,200 --> 02:31:53,200 Following the closed session, we will reconvene in open session 2220 02:31:50,720 --> 02:31:56,800 after completing any other business. The board was planning to enter a second 2221 02:31:55,120 --> 02:32:02,920 closed session to discuss personnel matters. However, I'm going to suggest 2222 02:31:59,880 --> 02:32:07,920 we cancel that on the fact there's just not enough board members here tonight to 2223 02:32:05,120 --> 02:32:07,920 have a conversation. 2224 02:32:07,960 --> 02:32:11,800 I think we need more than six. 2225 02:32:12,600 --> 02:32:14,960 All right. 2226 02:32:15,520 --> 02:32:18,600 So, we're going to enter closed session. >> Yes. 2227 02:32:17,760 --> 02:32:21,800 » Excellent. >> Thank [clears throat] you. 2228 02:32:19,560 --> 02:32:26,800 You're going to stick around and Tim and you're going to be here for the 2229 02:32:24,280 --> 02:32:30,800 This is the cyber >> I'm sorry. I'm glad I missed that. Yes. 2230 02:32:31,080 --> 02:32:34,920 » This is closed session on cyber? >> Yes. Closed session on cyber security. 2231 02:32:34,320 --> 02:32:38,080 Do you want to stay? >> Yes, so you'll stay. 2232 02:32:35,840 --> 02:32:40,080 » So, me, Monica, and Stephen will stay as well as Tim and Simon. 2233 02:32:39,360 --> 02:32:42,840 » Great. >> I need a shirt.