[0:03] All right. Make a motion to open the
Owensville Town Council
[0:08] budget hearing for
the 2020 2022 27 budget on September
[0:15] 1st, 2026 at 6 p.m.
>> Second.
[0:19] » All in favor? All right. Bye.
[0:43] Okay.
>> I thought you were getting ready to ask
[0:44] a question.
>> No, I was waiting for you to say
[0:46] something.
>> Oh, no, no, we're just Okay.
[0:48] » So, I mean, this is basically here for
the public to
[0:52] » ask questions and you guys got any
questions or
[0:55] » if we have any questions on it?
[1:01] I did have questions. I got to get there
though.
[1:05] » Yeah, I have to find it.
>> I know what your questions are. I got
[1:09] your email late today.
>> Reading my mind.
[1:22] Okay. So,
your first I will go over this. We're in
[1:28] a new program in gateway this year.
>> We used to be in budget 1.0 and now it's
[1:34] budget 2.0. So, our forms are a little
different than what we're normally used
[1:39] to. Okay. So, this here, this budget
form one. Okay.
[1:46] If you look
in the advertise column,
[1:52] these are the numbers that I come up
with. And how I come up with them is I
[1:59] usually go back three or four years to
that. It prints out a report and I look
[2:05] and see how much was spent out of there
out of that line item and then I
[2:12] it's kind of a guessing game. Does it
give you an average or
[2:16] » no?
>> No.
[2:18] » So advertise. Now it did well and I
don't know why like I said it's a new
[2:24] program. It did throw it ahead over to
the adopted but that is not adopted yet
[2:29] them numbers. Okay. So it goes so all of
all these columns down through here on
[2:38] advertise that is numbers that I come up
with and these are all the
[2:44] appropriations
line items that we can spend out of.
[2:50] Okay.
>> That's what that is.
[3:02] I say it might be underneath there.
[3:09] » Specifically,
>> maybe not. I figure out what they
[3:12] » No, this is stuff for the next meeting.
>> No, next meeting.
[3:16] » The these were not in your packets for
your meeting. I I I dropped this set off
[3:22] like a few days before.
>> That's right. They're different from
[3:24] that.
I gave you [clears throat] I had
[3:28] delivered yours.
[3:32] [snorts]
>> Okay. So then your budget form two
[3:36] » this is
nonpropy tax revenues
[3:42] » that
[3:46] July 1st December 31st 2026
this is how much we should approximately
[3:54] get for these. Okay. And then you have
to January 1st to December 31st, 2027,
[4:05] you have to estimate how much you're
going to get for the whole year on each
[4:12] one of these revenue line items.
>> So that's more or less the business
[4:18] side.
>> Yeah.
[4:21] » What we intake and Yes.
>> what we're expecting.
[4:24] » Yes. Now some of them it is like um
[4:30] like each we have like our bank accounts
we have general water sewer and park and
[4:36] wreck. Okay.
>> We get once a month the bank will send
[4:40] me or I get online and look at it and it
will tell me how much interest I earned
[4:47] on each one of them accounts. So that's
what that is. So that I don't get that
[4:53] number. Some of these numbers
I have to figure out myself, but most of
[4:59] these came comes in from the state.
Okay, so that's what that is.
[5:08] And then this here, this is a new this
is a new one this year for me too. Um,
[5:16] this is the cash flow statement
and this is what when I had my budget
[5:23] meeting with Robert,
he plugs the numbers in for this. So,
[5:29] the computer autom the it automatically
figures everything up.
[5:36] » Is that a monthly cash flow or just for
the whole year?
[5:40] » Okay. So like um here on this page, this
is the 2027 projected cash flow. This
[5:48] one, this chart, this one here is for
all year. Um
[5:57] and then it has like 20 2025 historical
cash flow and it told how much reserves
[6:05] in the general NBH par CCD how much
money we had to use.
[6:12] So like I said that part there is a new
form and I we will all have get used to
[6:20] that one. That's all I can tell about
you on that one.
[6:25] And then this last one is the current
year financial worksheet.
[6:30] And uh so like it goes through these are
all the
[6:36] like the casino river boat. We get that
once a year
[6:41] and that's usually in the fall. Fall to
early winter is when we get it. Um,
[6:49] I had to enter what we got from January
to June of 2026,
[6:56] uh, the dispersements
and then put in the second column, June
[7:02] 30th, the cash balance on it. And then
the last column is the 2026 budget.
[7:10] That's what we had budgeted for these
these um entries are ones that we get
[7:19] revenue from the state local road street
uh public safety local income tax as of
[7:27] right now. Um
like January
[7:33] through June 30th the cash balance on
the lit tax is 48,000.
[7:42] We get about
um
[7:47] 12,000 and something a month on that. So
that that's a good one for us right now.
[7:56] And that's one where we can like water
hydrants,
[8:00] we can or fire hydrants, we can buy that
with that because that's for public.
[8:07] um
police stuff.
[8:11] We can do that.
So that's what that form is.
[8:28] » And you you now know how to ask for that
money if if we need to.
[8:34] » Yeah. because when we first got it,
nobody really kind of knew how it was
[8:38] going to go. But
>> well, we got it this this past year, I
[8:42] had to ask for some and so this neck and
they didn't buck me on it or anything
[8:50] because it is not one of their funds. I
I don't know how to say it. It's not one
[8:56] of their funds that they control.
So,
[9:02] I mean, we automatically got it. As long
as it's for the right purpose. As long
[9:06] as it gets critical.
>> As long as it's for the right purpose.
[9:09] Yes.
[9:39] This is just something to bring up.
I don't want to be the one to do it, but
[9:44] I'm on to it.
the uh financial
[9:51] management report
>> for both the water [snorts] utility and
[9:56] the sewer works
>> um both have some some of the same
[10:02] concerns. I don't know if you've read
through those on the summary page. Yes,
[10:08] » it talks about
um
[10:12] our cash flow
uh compared to our rates
[10:18] and different things. But under the uh
on the third section, estimated future
[10:23] health, it [snorts] says total estimated
fund balances balances are expected to
[10:28] remain above the required reserves
through 2028. It says however the gap
[10:35] between the estimated fund balances and
the required reserves will become
[10:38] tighter demonstrating a dwindling cash
reserve cash level as the costs continue
[10:45] to rise with no offsetting increases in
the receipts. So it's referring to our
[10:50] rate adjustment in the next section
which is talking about based on these
[10:54] things we may need to consider whether
our rates are adequate.
[11:00] Um, but I'm not saying we need to do
anything.
[11:04] » Yeah.
>> Just saying we probably ought to have a
[11:05] conversation about it because it's
talking about capital improvements.
[11:09] We've already talked about the
wastewater treatment plant um and what
[11:14] we need to do there and potentially in
the future because we're trying to leave
[11:19] room for development. And then um
I don't know if we have anything on the
[11:26] water
other than the wells. have I mean we
[11:30] know we need to upgrade the wells
>> or at least increase the number or the
[11:37] another location or something. So we're
going to have to come up with something
[11:40] there anyway.
>> Um
[11:47] but anyway, I mean that's
just just at least bringing it out.
[11:52] [snorts] I don't we don't necessarily
have to discuss that tonight, but we
[11:57] probably ought to consider that soon
>> or over the next year or whatever.
[12:07] » So, cutting things in certain places,
what you're saying is what?
[12:12] » No, I mean, yeah.
>> I guess whatever whether we find ways to
[12:16] cut or whether we
>> whether we need to increase the rates. I
[12:20] mean,
>> we did we did just have the credit drop
[12:24] off. Is that
>> Weren't we getting some sort of credit?
[12:27] So, our bill went up.
>> So, our bill just went up,
[12:30] » didn't it? Like last year or something
like that? Thought there was some sort
[12:33] of water credit they were getting or
sewer credit. I don't remember. But
[12:37] » no,
>> maybe my kids just use more water.
[12:40] » We've not had [laughter]
we've not had a increase in
[12:45] » No, not not an increase in the rate.
There was something that we were that
[12:48] was offsetting some of that cost.
>> Well, we did sprinkler credit that
[12:54] » I don't think that was it, but I know
what you're talking about.
[12:59] » A credit for the customers
pass on.
[13:05] » But anyway,
[snorts]
[13:08] that's something to consider
in the next year.
[13:14] probably sooner than that, but I'm not
going to push it.
[13:29] » It's not necessarily that we need to
>> I mean it it was brought [clears throat]
[13:32] it was brought up whenever we were
looking at the uh
[13:39] sewer treatment plant anyhow that a rate
increase would
[13:44] would be needed in order to
[13:50] get to the capacity that we um felt
comfortable with and still have room to
[13:56] grow.
[14:00] The problem that we currently have is we
have no more room to grow.
[14:08] Getting
[14:30] the pipes lined that helped a little
bit.
[14:36] Slow things down.
There's a little more time.
[14:49] [snorts]
[15:07] » [cough and clears throat]
[15:10] » This one.
[15:23] » Ready?
[28:09] Yes. All right.
[28:18] » All right. Good evening.
Um, I'll make a motion to open the
[28:23] Owensville Town Council meeting
[clears throat] on September the 1st,
[28:27] 2026. at 6:30 p.m.
>> Second.
[28:31] » All those in favor.
>> You all would please stand and face the
[28:35] flag for the [clears throat] pledge
allegiance
[28:41] back
today.
[28:45] » I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
[28:50] republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[28:57] justice for all.
[snorts]
[29:00] » Thank you.
[29:05] » Um, a reminder, this meeting is being
recorded. Anyone who speaks is giving
[29:10] permission to be recorded and posted to
our YouTube channel and the town
[29:14] website. Virtual participation is not
monitored.
[29:19] So you can virtually watch the meeting
but if you need or want to speak it must
[29:24] be done so in person.
All right.
[29:30] [snorts]
[29:36] Are the claims
for the town?
[29:40] Anybody have any questions on those?
>> Everything good? I'll give it.
[29:45] » Okay. All right. Make a motion to
approve the claims from the town
[29:51] or for the town from August the 12th,
2026 through September the 1st, 2026 in
[29:59] the amount of $178,954.
[30:04] » Second.
>> All those in favor?
[30:06] » I.
[30:10] » All right.
meeting minutes from August the 11th,
[30:14] 2026, the one for a town council
meeting.
[30:18] Any questions or concerns on that one?
>> No, I'm good.
[30:22] » All good. All right. Make a motion to
approve the Owensville Town Council
[30:27] meeting minutes from August 11th, 2026.
>> Second.
[30:32] » All in favor?
[30:40] um
the park and recreation board meeting
[30:46] minutes from Tuesday, July the 28th,
2026. Was there any questions or
[30:51] concerns
on that one?
[30:54] » No.
>> Nope.
[30:55] » Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the
park and recreation board meeting
[30:59] minutes from Tuesday, July the 28th,
2026. Second.
[31:03] » All in favor?
>> I
[31:05] » I
[31:10] the claims
from the parking rack.
[31:15] Anybody have any questions or concerns
on that one?
[31:20] » No.
>> Okay. I will make a motion to approve
[31:26] the park and wreck claims from July 1st,
2026 through July 28th, 2026 in the
[31:33] amount of $6,700
[31:37] 96.
>> Second.
[31:40] » All in favor? All
right.
[31:45] » Um,
[31:51] » water
adjustments. I don't see it.
[31:58] » Water adjustment for Jerry right at
[32:08] » [snorts]
[32:15] » Um
before we do that,
[32:18] » yeah,
>> we just approved July's
[32:22] which we approved
last month this in front of me
[32:30] » for the park record. If you look at the
minutes, we approved the I don't I think
[32:36] we just didn't change this.
[32:42] » This is this is the public
>> and this
[32:45] » on the uh meeting minutes from August it
says reviewed the June meeting.
[32:51] » So we need to we need to approve the
policy
[32:53] » 728.
[snorts]
[32:59] » 728 to August 25th.
>> Yes. Good catch.
[33:11] » I make a motion to approve the park and
Rex claims from July 28th
[33:18] to August 25th, 2026 in the amount of
$16,230.88.
[33:26] » Second.
>> All in favor? Hi.
[33:29] » Hi.
[33:33] » Okay.
[33:43] [snorts]
[34:04] All right. Um,
[34:15] so they they moved the meter.
So this is the one, Rick, was this the
[34:21] one where you guys were working on over
[34:25] over here on
>> Yes.
[34:28] » Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah, we moved it.
[34:30] » Okay.
>> I got to replace the line his line is
[34:36] still leaks, but it's not on him now.
So, I put it on his property. So, I'll
[34:43] probably get that done next week.
[34:47] » All right. Um, I will make a motion to
approve the award adjustment in the
[34:52] amount of $438.36,
bringing the new bill to $94.35.
[35:00] » Second.
>> All in favor? Uh,
[35:14] there were water deposits paid out this
last month um in the amount of $600.
[35:30] » [snorts]
[35:32] » Okay. Um,
so [snorts]
[35:37] repairs
[35:40] to the RH center from uh
an incident in July.
[35:50] Have you had have you had any contact or
is that all Roger
[35:54] with
>> the fireworks?
[35:59] » Okay.
Um
[36:05] well, we have a
[36:10] or [snorts]
>> estimate from Denny Brothers
[36:15] Construction of $2,600
to get that repaired.
[36:25] » [snorts]
[36:28] » and we'll get a
get a letter out to him.
[36:33] » Go ahead and get it going.
>> Yeah, you guys.
[36:35] » Yeah, I think I think I mean
>> we got to prepare it.
[36:38] » It's got to it's got to be fixed. And
>> are we having them pay for anything or
[36:42] » Well, so so he had he had agreed to pay
for it.
[36:48] Um because I mean it was it was his
fault. He was
[36:57] » I don't know how that works. That's up
to them as far as what it ends up
[37:00] costing.
>> Right.
[37:01] » His estimate.
[37:12] Make a motion to approve um repairs
[snorts] to the RH center through
[37:17] Denning Brothers Construction in the
amount of $2,600.
[37:21] » A second.
>> Those in favor?
[37:22] » I
>> I and then we'll get a copy to him and
[37:27] then
hopefully
[37:31] he'll make contact back and work out a
way to
[37:35] pay that back.
[37:38] get over you guys. So that's kind of
plan on getting paid back.
[37:49] [clears throat]
[37:55] » So last week we had an issue with
somebody tampering [snorts] with our
[37:58] meters.
Um, and from what I'm being told, it was
[38:04] um
more than just going out and turning one
[38:09] on that had been shut off
um for non-payment,
[38:16] » right?
>> Yes.
[38:19] The
[38:22] the pipes
>> Mhm.
[38:24] » in the apartment complex
had been switched
[38:31] They reversed the pipes
two different meters so they could get
[38:36] water after it was shut off.
And we did not know this
[38:43] until a renter
was coming in to go to one of the
[38:49] apartments and Rick and then knows more
about it than they can they can explain
[38:54] the gist of it. Yeah,
it was it was not good.
[39:00] » You guys just a general explanation of
>> we had we went over put locks on.
[39:07] » Mhm.
>> Put two locks on two meters. Came back
[39:11] the next day. The locks, one lock was
already off.
[39:15] When you turn the water on, it didn't go
to the apartment that it's supposed to.
[39:22] That's not on our end. that's passed
that meter
[39:26] been done.
[39:29] My thought on it is just
put one meter up front.
[39:38] I can get rid of all those meters. Put
one up front
[39:42] [clears throat]
>> the um
[39:44] [cough]
[39:50] » I believe
>> we can't really
[39:52] » statement. She said she's the owner
>> of the apartment.
[39:55] » So Teresa, do you have any idea what
happened? Why why a me why a certain
[40:01] meter wasn't hooked to the correct
apartment anymore?
[40:04] » My son did that and he was told not to.
It's been fixed and he never did it
[40:11] again. But having one meter just would
not work for me.
[40:17] I I've been off work for a while and uh
I could see if several people weren't
[40:21] paying the water bill, it would just get
shut off and the other ones that did pay
[40:26] it, well, they would just be
>> Mhm.
[40:30] » I mean, that I mean, that's kind of the
way that it was it was [clears throat]
[40:32] designed to work. I agree. Um but then
your son
[40:38] um bypassed that and took over somebody
else's meter for himself. Um,
[40:45] essentially. So,
[clears throat]
[40:50] » and I am Am I going to be moving?
>> Am I right? It's still not fixed.
[40:57] » I believe Karen told me that it's still
not fixed.
[41:00] » It's still I think still.
>> Yeah. The guys went out there and they
[41:05] said it's still
[41:10] over there to fix it.
[41:17] later today
[41:24] morning.
[41:28] That's the worst ever.
But we've had other issues there. I
[41:32] mean, we've had we've opened it up in
the winter time and someone tried to set
[41:37] up set a fire in it and melted one of
the lids off one of the meters.
[41:46] If they want to keep four, that's fine.
But we're going have to figure out a way
[41:51] for them not to be able to get in meters
anymore and just putting a lid on it.
[41:55] But whatever we got isn't working.
So it have to be something that's
[42:00] » Well, then so where' they switch the
lines at?
[42:03] » In the basement.
>> So that and we can't do nothing about
[42:06] that.
>> Absolutely not.
[42:15] But Karen is not getting an accurate
reading through the system
[42:22] because the water that was used when she
didn't know that these pipes were
[42:26] switched.
[clears throat]
[42:30] There's no way to determine
because one of them was ended up and had
[42:35] after they switched one of them back,
two of them was on and she said there's
[42:40] no way I can determine how
[clears throat] much water somebody's
[42:43] using,
[42:50] » but the water usage is showing up on the
one they're pulling from.
[42:56] » Yeah.
>> So, they're having inflated bill.
[43:05] » Sounds like a civil problem.
>> Sounds like a criminal problem.
[43:08] » It's a crime.
>> That is theft. That's crime.
[43:12] » Absolutely.
[43:19] » I mean, the apartments on the corner of
the third and war I think it's tower
[43:24] properties. They got one meter for how
many apartments?
[43:30] » Oh, yeah.
>> Williams Apartments has one meter for
[43:33] how many apartments?
>> I mean, I'm I'm just
[43:36] » Well, that's going to be determined by
how they do their agreements with their
[43:40] tenants.
>> Yeah, that's not that's
[43:43] » Yeah, you
>> I mean, but I'm imagining at some point,
[43:47] and maybe not. Maybe there wasn't
anything in place, but if someone wanted
[43:51] to put in an apartment and have four
meters, they're going to have four
[43:54] hookup charges. Is that not correct? It
would be just one.
[44:00] » So there So they're paying for that
service to have it. Now, if they're
[44:05] fusing it, that's a different story. I
mean, there's a
[44:10] » Well, the fire that was in the meter, I
guess they had frozen pipes, so I think
[44:14] they went out there to set a fire
underneath the meter. And I think it
[44:18] really destroyed the meter too because
I'm pretty sure it started reading
[44:22] erratically because the gears inside the
meter.
[44:26] » How recent was that?
>> Uh threeish
[44:31] years ago.
[44:35] » Did we do anything?
>> We have an ordinance that's been Clyde
[44:40] signed that we can charge the cost of
the repair.
[44:45] We need to we need to we need to make
sure we follow up on these things.
[44:58] Right now we have that stuff in place,
>> right?
[45:04] It's like get into it with the main
street thing.
[45:11] » [clears throat]
[45:22] » Sander, do you see anything that with
this highlighted that we need to
[45:26] increase?
>> Well, the only
[45:28] » start doing fines.
>> We should put fines in there. Um, we
[45:33] have the one from Fort Branch that I
drafted for them. It's a uh should be
[45:37] fine not less than $100 or more than
2500. The state statutes allow to find
[45:42] up to 2500 for each separate offense.
Um, and a separate offense shall be
[45:48] committed for each day of the violation.
>> In addition to the
[45:53] » in addition to that. Okay.
>> Yeah.
[45:57] » We can either amend this one to
reference a new ordinance or we can
[46:02] shove all of this into an amended
ordinance [snorts] on section I. However
[46:06] you guys want to do it. It won't be
difficult to do.
[46:11] » [clears throat]
[46:16] » You need all this language.
>> It just um it just
[46:21] » the beginning.
>> It defines everything.
[46:24] » Says,
>> "Yeah, Sandra wrote this before branch."
[46:27] » It just defines everything. So they
can't say, "Well, I it was just the jump
[46:31] or it wasn't this or it was
>> Yeah.
[46:34] » Yeah.
[46:37] Well, I would suggest we do a separate
one that this references to separate one
[46:42] is what I would say. [clears throat]
Then we're only changing
[46:50] based on what we can
do.
[47:06] What if we had
[clears throat]
[47:11] to give it
permission to go in and inspect?
[47:17] » Well, we were talking about that on
hookup.
[47:20] » I mean I mean for this very specific
incident right now so that we're not
[47:24] saying that we're going to the single
meter today normal. I mean
[47:30] » I mean she's here
and talked to her about it. I mean, if
[47:34] you if they allow us to go in there, I
would say that's fine to make sure
[47:38] they're happy with it. [snorts]
I don't know what he's I don't know
[47:41] where they have to go. Do you have to go
in the basement to look at this?
[47:49] » We stood outside.
>> So, you were working with the half the
[47:55] problem. the extra
[48:01] » watch.
[48:11] I mean, I don't want to be
heartless here, but
[48:18] I mean, unfortunately, it's this lady's
problem, not necessarily ours,
[48:23] » right?
But I mean, I think we're willing to
[48:27] help her figure this out. Don't think
that's a problem because we don't want
[48:31] them turning it on and off.
>> That's the whole point of this meter
[48:34] tampering.
>> So, when there's a lock on it, you got
[48:38] to really wait to get off.
>> Yeah.
[48:41] » Yeah. I really don't want to feel like
coming in fixing the water when it's
[48:46] out.
anytime. Does that matter?
[48:52] I mean, I can call
>> sales guys and see if they have a
[48:57] different style pit.
>> I can put a different pit on it,
[49:00] » more secure one.
>> So, are the I'm just curious if you're
[49:05] willing, is are the basements connected?
>> It's one basement. It's it's it's it's a
[49:11] house. It's basically four living
spaces. Correct.
[49:16] » Oh.
That makes sense now.
[49:20] » Yeah.
>> I mean, you know where you know where
[49:21] it's at, right?
>> I think I do now.
[49:23] » Yes.
>> You used I don't know if it's still
[49:26] called this, but used to it was referred
to as the Fifth Mansion.
[49:30] » Yeah.
>> It's the way I've always been
[49:36] told. I mean,
>> this was [snorts]
[49:38] » I mean, I don't I don't see a need to go
beyond helping her figure out whether
[49:43] she's being
stolen from,
[49:48] but as far as going in there and
figuring it out, I don't think we need
[49:51] to do that. That's that's her decision
as to whether to continue dealing with
[49:55] that crap.
And and I would imagine that you would
[49:59] want to fix it as best you can, but
for your tenants sake, but
[50:08] I think we should I think we should look
into that.
[50:10] » You want to buy it?
>> No, I'm good.
[50:16] [clears throat]
[50:22] » Isaac, do you have any thoughts on it?
>> Well, [clears throat]
[50:28] I mean, if we went to a single meter at
the only way you could do is just divide
[50:34] up the total bills. So that's not very
convenient, but
[50:41] » water.
[50:46] » Yeah, that's true.
>> So you shut the whole apartment off.
[50:50] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[50:51] » I mean, that's like you said, that's the
downside. Everybody's going to be
[50:54] punished for one person's
[clears throat]
[50:57] » problem. But that at that point,
>> I mean, I I would think you would if you
[51:02] had if you had one meter going to the
apartment, you would either
[51:05] have your own meters that metered each
individual
[51:10] each individual's
>> space or you would just take
[51:21] in your case being
being the the rent you would probably
[51:27] take the highest bill that you've ever
received
[51:32] and just made that your normal
and then divide that and put it up on
[51:37] all four of your places and everybody
just pays that much. Does that make
[51:42] sense? I don't know.
>> I don't know if I'm making
[51:43] » these are just suggestions. We're not
giving you financial advice.
[51:46] » Correct. We're [laughter] just
>> But ourselves,
[51:51] » I I think I think
[51:56] I think we can work together on it. Um,
[52:06] if she was asking to put in, if she
already had one and she was asking to
[52:10] put in three more and we were having
these kind of issues, I would say
[52:13] absolutely no, we're not doing it. If
she's already got the four,
[52:18] um, the problem is is she's having
issues where it's getting switched on
[52:23] her end.
Um and then that turns into a criminal
[52:28] issue.
>> Yeah.
[52:30] » You can't even mess with it's a crime to
mess with any public utility also. So
[52:34] you can't mess with any public
utilities. It's a crime. So,
[52:41] at that point, whenever
uh Carrie gets an alert that there's an
[52:48] issue with the water,
let's send the guys out there and if
[52:53] it's been tampered with,
[52:57] Roger or Stephen get called in to handle
it on the criminal side of it. So,
[53:07] Do what?
>> Well, I guess you had to, but whatever.
[53:14] » So, this raises a different question, I
think. What do we do when somebody has
[53:18] tampered with it? What's our pro what's
our procedure?
[53:22] Says somebody say somebody decides to
light a fire in a meter.
[53:28] What do we do at that point? We shut it
off
[53:33] or it's already shut off. What do we do
with the deposit? What do we do? They
[53:37] have to pay another deposit. Does the
deposit cover that repair? What are we
[53:41] doing?
>> Nothing was done, but I
[53:45] » Well, what happens?
What should we do?
[53:52] » Oh, I think we need to pay for it.
>> I thought the fine
[53:59] » the fine and the ordinances would or the
the fine on the ordinance would cover
[54:03] it.
[54:13] Or just hit him twice so they don't do
it again.
[54:40] I mean because article three in this in
the ordinance from Fort Branch um
[54:50] that just that's like a coverall, right?
So any any kind of tampering
[54:55] » any kind of tampering
>> any kind of anything that goes against
[54:57] the definitions above
>> Yes.
[55:01] » could be fined not less than $100
>> Yes.
[55:04] » or more than $2,500.
>> Yes. And Fort Branch decided to make
[55:08] turning the water off a $100 fine and
removing a lock $2,400. So those are two
[55:14] separate in addition to everything else
in article three. Yes.
[55:20] » So if somebody
lit a fire
[55:24] and it cost $1,300 to fix.
We could say the fine is $1,300 or
[55:31] $1,400. Make sure it gets covered.
>> Right.
[55:37] » Okay.
>> But we got to take action when it
[55:41] happens,
>> right?
[55:43] » I guess something like that.
>> They have to be reported.
[55:47] » Oh, they usually are. I mean we we'll
tell we go to the office and say
[55:50] something you know but it's kind of
common knowledge and it's
[55:53] » well then we'll just make sure that
>> or you know for you this for a fact I've
[55:57] been saying stuff for a long time about
people you know
[56:01] meters so
>> right but usually when you call me it's
[56:05] because somebody
>> some sort of
[56:07] » shut their water off so that they could
fix a pipe and then turn it back on
[56:11] themselves.
Usually that's what I've heard.
[56:19] Maybe water was running down the street.
I turned on road.
[56:26] » Across from your house.
You got water leak over here.
[56:34] » Well, that's also because he broke the
water line to his washing machine and
[56:39] water was spewing out into his hardwood
floor. with me anecdote a little bit
[56:43] anyway. Okay. [snorts]
[56:48] » Can you draft something?
>> I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I can absolutely
[56:52] do that.
>> Both the amendment
[56:54] » to the original one and the new one.
>> Yep.
[56:57] » I'll have it at the next meeting.
>> Thank you.
[56:59] » Welcome.
>> Okay.
[57:08] Rick, do you have anything else?
>> Or do you, sir?
[57:12] » No, no, I'm good.
[57:25] [clears throat and cough]
[57:27] » Billy,
>> what
[57:28] » you have? Anything else?
>> Technically, I was on vacation. No.
[57:32] » Okay. Well, we appreciate you coming in
on your night off.
[57:38] Stephen, you have anything from the
police department?
[57:41] » They've got the working on it. Putting
all pieces together.
[57:47] » This is the new one.
>> The new one. Yes.
[57:48] » Okay.
>> Hopefully here
[57:52] it
>> did have some issues with the uh the
[57:57] current Durango.
>> It's fixed now. Since they put the new
[58:00] injectors in it, it's gained 5 miles per
gallon.
[58:03] » Nice.
>> Guess they did have a recall.
[58:08] » Huh?
>> They did have they had some kind of
[58:09] recall on them or or
>> No, it's a known issue.
[58:12] » It's a known It was That's what it was.
The issue was
[58:16] bad enough that the parts were on back
order because everybody's ordered it.
[58:25] » All right.
[58:30] Okay, we got the uh
um tall grass and weeds and junks
[58:39] list. Um, so if your
grass is tall or your weeds are tall or
[58:46] you have junk in your yard,
um,
[58:53] you could probably expect a letter
within the next few days.
[58:58] » Today,
>> communicate with us.
[59:02] » Yeah.
>> If you if you get a letter,
[59:05] » just talk to us. Tell us what your plan
is.
[59:07] » Yes.
We do have an ordinance that has fines.
[59:13] We would rather not use them. So, come
talk to us
[59:18] because communication, communication,
communication.
[59:25] Okay.
[59:28] » [clears throat]
>> Um,
[59:36] I think that's for another day.
[59:41] » Right.
>> Yeah.
[59:44] All right. [clears throat]
Okay. So, we're going to navigate this
[59:51] carefully. Patridden concerns. I'm going
to ask everybody in the room if they
[59:56] have something to say.
Not about fluoride. We're not there yet.
[1:00:01] We're going to get there. You're going
to get an opportunity, but for the
[1:00:04] moment,
I just would like to [clears throat]
[1:00:07] know if anybody has anything else to
contribute to the meeting. Okay.
[1:00:14] Teresa Robin.
>> Yes, sir. Thanks.
[1:00:21] » I'm not going to remember your name. I
met you one time, Heather.
[1:00:24] » Yes.
>> I just I did want to know if you could
[1:00:27] recommend a contractor that maybe I
could have take a look so I can get some
[1:00:31] maybe prices if you guys are still
interested in moving forward. I got some
[1:00:35] ideas. I don't want to do a whole lot of
changing to the building itself just,
[1:00:39] you know, some sprucing up. But if you
had somebody that you'd like to work
[1:00:43] with.
>> So, um, after the meeting,
[1:00:46] » yeah,
>> get with us and we'll give you some
[1:00:48] names of some local guys that
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:00:52] that have worked with us and
>> they're familiar with the town and
[1:00:56] everybody. Yeah.
>> Yep. Very good. Anything else?
[1:01:00] » Yeah, Cody.
>> Okay, Scott.
[1:01:09] » Hang on a minute.
[1:01:14] Josh, do you have anything at all?
[1:01:19] [clears throat]
[1:01:22] Pedro.
Not fluoride. Not yet. Okay.
[1:01:29] Stephen, Vanessa.
>> Yes.
[1:01:32] » Yes.
>> I I want to know what you guys decision
[1:01:36] are about apartments.
>> You never really
[1:01:40] » Oh. So I So I think now we're right now
we're going we're going to let it be.
[1:01:46] » Okay.
>> With the four meters.
[1:01:48] » Okay. And if we continue to have issues,
then it becomes it will become a a
[1:01:55] criminal matter. And if we continue to
continue to have issues, it will just go
[1:02:00] with our plan.
>> Quick question on that. Yes.
[1:02:03] » Do you want me to go ahead and call
these places to see if they have better
[1:02:07] meter boxes that are more secure than
>> Yes.
[1:02:12] » Yes. get us um have us some ideas by the
next meeting or just get us some ideas
[1:02:19] on pricing because if they're going to
be
[1:02:23] I mean if it's going to be so expensive
compared to normal if we're have to do
[1:02:28] extra things to keep that [snorts]
property secure.
[1:02:33] Um
you may get part of that bill. We'll
[1:02:37] see.
>> I'm just saying it's a possibility.
[1:02:40] We're being we're usually pretty
generous, but
[1:02:47] it's just it's just a pain. I I don't I
don't understand
[1:02:53] why people can't just
leave things that don't belong to them
[1:02:58] alone. I I just I I I mean, I want to be
compassionate and nice about it, but at
[1:03:05] the end of the day, it's not yours.
Don't touch it.
[1:03:08] » Right. So, and I understand that it
wasn't you and and and but
[1:03:15] » but it's your property.
>> Ain't something I do,
[1:03:19] » but it's your property. So, that does
make you responsible.
[1:03:24] » Okay.
[1:03:28] » Corey,
>> you have anything else? Is
[1:03:31] » Sandra?
>> All right.
[1:03:36] [snorts]
Hey, Drew. You have the floor, sir.
[1:03:41] » Did I skip you?
>> I'm sorry. What do you got?
[1:03:48] » All right.
>> I'm going to make myself comfortable.
[1:03:55] » All right, everyone. Look, uh, a couple
of months ago, I was approached by
[1:03:59] several people,
uh, who had a concern. We had a little
[1:04:03] bit of a conversation regarding
fluoride, fluoride in the water, uh what
[1:04:08] it's doing to our health. So, I guess I
was kind of chosen to uh come up with
[1:04:13] some research for you guys and present
uh the research. First of all, I want to
[1:04:18] let you know that I'm not a doctor. I'm
not a nurse. I'm not an expert in the
[1:04:23] matter either, and I'm not a lawyer. So,
what I'm going to present to you guys is
[1:04:28] just about 15 hours
of going down the rabbit hole, if you
[1:04:34] will, for finding information. And I
basically went and looked at both sides,
[1:04:40] you know, try to outweigh the pros and
the cons and see what I could find.
[1:04:45] Unfortunately,
I found more bad things than I found
[1:04:49] good things. So, I'm going to try to
convert a 45 minute um
[1:04:55] [clears throat and cough]
PowerPoint presentation into a much much
[1:04:59] quicker condensed form here so that I so
that you know I don't keep you here all
[1:05:04] night. Okay. But I did bring a lot of or
some percentage of of the studies that I
[1:05:10] found just to back back it up. Okay. So
with that [clears throat] in mind,
[1:05:18] I'll be passing some things along and if
anybody has any questions, I'll just ask
[1:05:23] that you ask it at the end, okay? And I
will try to answer the best that I can.
[1:05:28] So my topic is uh uh rethinking fluoride
in our town's drinking water.
[1:05:35] » [clears throat]
>> Uh we recent uh why recent federal
[1:05:38] science a federal court ruling and a
wave of state action have put community
[1:05:42] water flidation up for reconsideration
and what our and what our council should
[1:05:50] do in my opinion. Okay.
So for the last 60 years, we've been
[1:05:56] assured that the addition of fluoride to
our public water supplies is a safe and
[1:06:02] effective means of reducing dental
decay. Sure, we've all heard that,
[1:06:07] right? But is it really safe and
effective
[1:06:10] is the big question. In 2026,
does the populationwide benefit of
[1:06:17] adding fluoride to drinking water
outweigh the potential risks associated
[1:06:22] with uh total fluoride exposure,
particularly for developing children and
[1:06:29] other potential uh susceptible
populations
[1:06:33] or does the fluoride close health risks
not only for us but for our pets?
[1:06:40] Okay. So [sighs]
to begin, let's consider the following
[1:06:45] questions along with their often
surprising answers. What is the actual
[1:06:49] fluoride chemical added to our water? Uh
fluoride added to our municipal water.
[1:06:55] And you guys going to have to excuse me.
These there there's words in here that
[1:06:58] you need a degree just to read them. Uh
so fluoride added to municipal water you
[1:07:03] have hydro floral cyolysic acid you have
uh sodium fluoro cy silicate and Billy
[1:07:12] if I'm wrong just correct me uh sodium
fluoride which is something that we use
[1:07:17] here in the town in the case of
something like hydrofllor floryic
[1:07:25] acid is the chemical put in the vast
majority of US water supplies. Guys, it
[1:07:31] is not pharmaceutical grade. None of
these are they're not none of them are
[1:07:35] pharmaceutical grade. It is removed from
the pollution scrubbers of phosphate
[1:07:41] fertilizer plants and contains
contaminants of lead, arsenic, and
[1:07:46] radium.
This toxic industrial waste, which would
[1:07:50] be costly for the fertilizer industry to
dispose of properly, is sold to water
[1:07:56] districts and is more toxic than lead.
According
[1:08:02] to the so natural fluoride according to
the CDC center for disease control
[1:08:08] natural fluoride enters water primarily
through geological processes. Minerals
[1:08:14] dissolve and release fluoride.
Natural fluoride and added fluoride
[1:08:18] ultimately provide flu fluoride ion in
the water. Your body does not have a
[1:08:25] specific or special mechanism that can
tell whether a fluoride ion came from a
[1:08:32] natural mineral or from a fluoridation
chemical. However, the original chemical
[1:08:38] compound added to municipal water may
not be the same chemical compound in
[1:08:45] which naturally occurring fluorides
exist.
[1:08:49] So for example, fluoride naturally
occurs in groundwater and surface water
[1:08:53] as minerals uh dissolve
and and by the way we do need fluoride
[1:08:58] natural fluoride at very minimum
amounts. Okay, so that's that's a fact.
[1:09:03] One common natural source is calcium
fluoride.
[1:09:07] The chemical compound uh code for that
is CF2.
[1:09:13] Keep that in mind. Although fluoride can
occur in association with other minerals
[1:09:19] and dissolved species,
fluoride added to the municipal water
[1:09:25] hydrofluoroisic
acid the the compound
[1:09:31] uh for that is H2S6
which if you look is a is a is is a
[1:09:38] synthetic carc carcinogenous uh uh
chemical. Sodium fluorocyicate is Na2S6
[1:09:50] and sodium fluoride is NAF.
[clears throat] These are all um BPA
[1:09:56] tops identifying these as fluoride
fluoridation chemicals. So they're not
[1:10:01] they're chemicals. They're not natural
products. These are manufactured
[1:10:06] processed chemical compounds not the
same minerals from which natural
[1:10:10] occurring fluoride enters groundwater.
Okay. So,
[1:10:15] uh, here is public health statement from
the CDC and the ATSDR public health
[1:10:21] statement about fluoride. So, here's one
that I will submit to you guys. Okay.
[1:10:34] Are there any health risks from
fluorides for people and pets? While the
[1:10:38] public has been assured of its safety,
in actuality, the Environmental
[1:10:43] Protection Agency, EPA,
has has acknowledged that no chronic
[1:10:50] health studies have been done on this
fluoride chemical. Does that remind you
[1:10:55] of something? So, here you are. Eat
this, take this, but we haven't really
[1:10:59] done the necessary tests to make sure
that this stuff is good for you. Did we
[1:11:05] kind of go through that in 2020? I think
it was.
[1:11:11] » In March of 2006, the National Research
Council NRC completed a three-year
[1:11:18] review of the peer-reviewed research on
fluoride.
[1:11:22] Numerous adverse health risks were cited
such as disruption of the nervous and
[1:11:27] endocrine systems including the brain
and thyroid, bone fractures and joint
[1:11:33] pain. A recently published heard stud
Harvard study concluded that there was a
[1:11:40] sevenfold risk in osteocaroma
or bone cancer
[1:11:47] among young boys after exposure to
fluoridated water.
[1:11:52] This study may have implications for
dogs since many of us here love our
[1:11:57] dogs, our pets since osteocaroma or bone
cancer is the most common bone tumor
[1:12:04] diagnosed in dogs in the US.
Now remember when you think about this
[1:12:11] that a lot of the tests done
uh beauty products, you name it,
[1:12:18] whatever. When you go to a lab and they
do tests, what do they use? Dogs and
[1:12:24] mice, right? So keep that in mind.
[1:12:30] So I printed out a couple of the posters
and stuff that I came across online.
[1:12:36] I'll pass these around for you guys to
take a look.
[1:12:41] The four numbers, let's let's set a
baseline real quick. The four numbers
[1:12:44] that frame this debate. Fluoride is
measured in milligrams per liter.
[1:12:50] Mg/ milligrams per liter. Keeping these
thresholds straight is key to the whole
[1:12:55] discussion here. So right now
level 0.7 [clears throat]
[1:13:01] mg per liter is a level added to US
water systems current federal
[1:13:07] recommendation and it's what Owensville
is doing. 1.5 milligrams per liter is
[1:13:13] the WHO safe limit
uh level where federal science most
[1:13:19] clearly links harm.
2.0 0 milligrams is the EPA a secondary
[1:13:25] standard for cosmetic and dental flu
races for example 4.0 Now getting into
[1:13:32] the red levels is EPA maximum legal
limit before enforcement action.
[1:13:39] The margin is thin. EPA's own practice
is to build is to build in a 10 times
[1:13:46] safety buffer applied here as safe on
under in quotations level would be plus
[1:13:53] or minus 0.15
mg per liter. We add nearly five times
[1:13:58] [clears throat] that amount to every
tab. State of Indiana already lowered it
[1:14:03] to 0.7 milligrams,
which is what we have now, right? I can
[1:14:08] pass it around just so you guys have a
an idea of the numbers.
[1:14:14] Just important as I pull up this, let me
pass this around too. The concentration
[1:14:19] [clears throat]
may be fixed at 0.7 milligrams, but an
[1:14:23] individual's fluoride dose increases as
they consume more water. And this is
[1:14:28] always the big question. If the fluoride
concentration in water stays the same,
[1:14:33] drinking more of that water means you
ingest more fluoride. Facts.
[1:14:38] It's it's essentially a dose
calculation. fluoride intake from water
[1:14:43] milligrams per day equals fluoride
concentration milligs per liter times
[1:14:48] water consumed per day.
Okay. At the commonly recommended
[1:14:53] commonly recommended 0.7 mg
concentration
[1:14:58] one liter which is four cups of water
for those who don't know how much a
[1:15:02] liter is. Four cups of one liter equals
four cups of water. So if you drink four
[1:15:08] cups of water, you're getting 0.7
milligrams per day.
[1:15:14] Okay.
How many cups of water is it recommended
[1:15:19] that we drink per day?
>> Eight.
[1:15:21] » Eight. So 2 lers per day is 1.4
milligrams per day. That's eight cups.
[1:15:27] So eight cups of water per day. If you
only drink eight cups of water per day
[1:15:32] and you don't eat anything else or drink
anything else, you now have 1.4
[1:15:38] milligrams of water of uh of uh fluoride
in your body.
[1:15:46] 3 liters
2.1, four liters 2.8 and so on. The
[1:15:53] Nationalmies has published intake
estimates showing exactly this
[1:15:57] relationship.
At 0.7 milligrams per liter, an adult
[1:16:02] consuming 1,000 ml gets about 0.7
0.70
[1:16:10] 0.70 milligrams of fluoride, while 2,600
mls gives about 1.82
[1:16:18] milligrams.
Keep in mind that 0.77
[1:16:23] milligrams per liter, this is important
to remember, is a concentration. It is
[1:16:29] not a daily dose.
So for example, 0.7 mg per liter * 1
[1:16:37] liter equals 0.7 mg of fluoride.
0.7 mg per liter time 2 L
[1:16:47] is 1.5 millig of fluoride. So I don't
want to bore you with the uh you know
[1:16:53] all of that detail but just I just want
to go so you guys can understand this
[1:16:57] whole thing. So it's important to note
the dose per kilogram of body of body
[1:17:03] weight becomes particularly important
when comparing adults with infants and
[1:17:09] children.
So we're basically dozing our children,
[1:17:14] our babes the same that we're dozing
adults.
[1:17:18] Does that make sense to you?
Uh, [clears throat] okay. So, for
[1:17:24] example, someone drinks drinking three
liters of 0.7 milligrams
[1:17:30] water every day would ingest about 2.1
milligrams of fluoride per day.
[1:17:36] 14.7 mg per week, 63 milligrams per 30
days, and about 767 milligrams per year
[1:17:46] just for water alone. This is fluoride
ingested, not necessarily fluoride absor
[1:17:52] absorbed or retained by the body. Those
are two different concepts which I'll
[1:17:57] touch on in just a moment. So basically
when you drink water or any product or
[1:18:03] any food that has fluoride,
your body doesn't get rid of it through
[1:18:08] urine, for example, doesn't get rid of
all of it. It accumulates in your body.
[1:18:12] Another one to keep in mind.
[1:18:18] The National Academyy's 2006 review
estimated that an average consumer
[1:18:23] drinking about one liter per day of
community water at 0.7
[1:18:28] milligrams per liter would receive a
0.70.70
[1:18:35] milligrams per day. While a higher
consumer drinking about 2.1 lers per day
[1:18:41] would receive approximately 1.5
milligrams per day from community water
[1:18:46] alone.
[1:18:50] Again, it's important to remember the
National Research Council Council
[1:18:54] specifically emphasis that fluoride
exposure should be considered on a body
[1:19:00] weight basis because infants and young
children can have substantially greater
[1:19:05] exposure per kilogram than adults.
Um so [clears throat] then I I have you
[1:19:12] know in here you know if you drink
moderate water you're getting about 730
[1:19:19] to 1,95 milligrams of chloride. In 50
years you're getting 36.5 to 54.75
[1:19:27] gram.
Uh these figures represent estimated
[1:19:31] cumul cumulative intake not the amount
retained in the body. Again that's
[1:19:37] important to remember.
actual exposure varies based on drinking
[1:19:41] water, diet, beverages, dental products,
and individual consumption patterns.
[1:19:47] So then I went down the sorry I just
love the term lately the rabbit hole
[1:19:52] because that's how I feel it. I went
down the the foods and I looked at all
[1:19:57] of the foods and I found an interesting
one. Did you guys know that most soda
[1:20:02] beverages contain fluoride?
[1:20:06] A study of 332 carbonated soft drinks
found fluoride concentrations ranging
[1:20:11] from 0.02 to 1.28
milligrams per liter with an average of
[1:20:18] 0.72 milligrams per liter. The
researchers noted that the variations
[1:20:23] was likely related largely to the water
sources used in production. And by the
[1:20:29] way, if the water gets boiled and
they're boiling water to make some of
[1:20:32] these things, which they do, I found out
there's deposits of fluoride and other
[1:20:37] things that end up in the in the drinks.
Um,
[1:20:42] so
then they've done more studies recently
[1:20:46] and now a more recent study of 200 soft
drinks found an average of 1.38
[1:20:52] milligrams in carbonated soft drinks,
although concentrations vary
[1:20:56] considerably. So, a 12 oz can of
Mountain Dew
[1:21:03] has 0.26 milligrams of fluoride.
A 16 oz bottle for 173 ml has 0.34
[1:21:12] milligrams. Why am I bringing these up?
Because again, it's not just the water.
[1:21:16] We have to eliminate what we can. But,
but there's other things that we are
[1:21:21] taking. So by reducing a little bit here
and there and what we can control
[1:21:26] because unfortunately we can't control
everything right but if we can eliminate
[1:21:30] on what and control what we can then
we're we're helping to reduce that. So I
[1:21:35] [snorts] thought that was interesting
[1:21:40] and here are
you're going to be relieved to see all
[1:21:44] these pages go aren't you?
These are studies [clears throat] on all
[1:21:50] of that. Okay, hold on a second. Make
sure that
[1:21:57] Okay. So, here's more studies that I'll
make available to the town and I can
[1:22:02] make available to any of you. If you
contact me, I'll send you PDX
[1:22:07] couple more studies on some of the
things I just spoke about.
[1:22:14] All right. [snorts]
Fluoride, potential health concerns.
[1:22:19] thyroid. Various studies have reported
an association between higher fluoride
[1:22:23] exposure and changes in thyroid
function. Now, if you know a little bit
[1:22:27] about what the thyroid does in your
system,
[1:22:31] you you'd be worried, right? Brain and
development. Fluoride fluoride has been
[1:22:35] classified as a developmental neurotoxin
causing problems in cognitive
[1:22:42] development in in and IQ in children and
also ADHD.
[1:22:49] pregnancy. Some studies suggest that
fluoride exposure during pregnancy may
[1:22:54] cross the placenta
and potentially affect fetal
[1:22:58] neurological development. IQ reviews of
studies conducted in areas with
[1:23:04] relatively high fluoride exposure have
reported lower average IQ scores among
[1:23:11] exposed children. bones. Excessive
fluoride exposure can contribute to
[1:23:16] skeletal plurosis, which can cause bone
and joint problems.
[1:23:22] Of course, higher risk groups are more
susceptible to these things, such as
[1:23:27] people with certain conditions,
including poor kidney functions, may be
[1:23:31] more susceptible to fluoride
accumulation and toxicity.
[1:23:35] The key issue is the level of exposure
and the balance between potential
[1:23:40] benefits and risks. Three studies show
that boys who drink fluoridated tap
[1:23:45] water between the ages of six and eight
face a heightened risk of osteocaroma
[1:23:52] the rare but deadly form of bone cancer
associated with fluoride. This was in
[1:23:57] the base in 2006 cooho 1992 DHHS 1981. I
have some of those here that I will
[1:24:05] provide for you. If you have an infant,
do not use fluoridated water to make
[1:24:11] formula since these would give the baby
a very high dose of fluoride. Infant
[1:24:16] formula reconstituted with fluoridated
water gives the baby 250 times more
[1:24:23] fluoride than naturally in breast milk.
[1:24:29] The 1993 National Research Council NRC
says tens of millions of children have
[1:24:36] visible signs of overexposed
of overexposure to fluoride dental
[1:24:41] fluosis. The fluoridation program has
not notably fallen short of achieving
[1:24:46] one of its primary objectives, reducing
dental decay rates while minimizing the
[1:24:52] side effect of overexposure to fluoride
from ingestion during early childhood
[1:24:57] development called dental fluorosis.
[1:25:02] Also, the Journal of American Medical
Association pediatrics
[1:25:09] stated
in 2025, that's last year guys, a
[1:25:14] metaanalysis of 74 studies across 12
countries publish published in one of
[1:25:20] the most respected pediatric journals
found a dose response relationship. As
[1:25:27] fluoride goes up, children's IQ goes
down.
[1:25:33] 1.63 IQ points. Estimated drop per
additional 1 milligram of fluoride.
[1:25:46] So what are some recent developments
developments around this?
[1:25:51] Dr. Limeback, one of the scientists on
the prestigious panel of the national
[1:25:55] research cons council that reviewed
fluoride toxicity has said that their
[1:26:00] report is highly relevant to the policy
of fluidation. Dr. Limebeck has stated
[1:26:07] that and I quote the evidence that
fluidation is more harmful than
[1:26:11] beneficial is now overwhelming.
On August 19, 20 uh 2005, the EPA unions
[1:26:20] representing over 7,000 professional
employees called for a nationwide
[1:26:26] moratorum on fluidation and also a
congre congre congressional
[1:26:31] investigation of this policy. In June
2005, scientists at the Environmental
[1:26:37] Working Group asked the National
Institutes of Health to list fluoride in
[1:26:43] tap water as a carcinogen.
[snorts]
[1:26:47] So,
manipulating science, which came first,
[1:26:50] sugar or tobacco?
1940s to 1950s, the sugar industry
[1:26:56] manipulates American Dental Association
positions on fluoride.
[1:27:05] The fluoride deception published by
Christopher Bryson in 2004 exposed the
[1:27:10] sorted history of foreignation. 400 page
book. I read the whole thing. If you
[1:27:14] have questions, I know somebody had
questions. Bryson discusses how industry
[1:27:19] and the military work behind the scenes
to bury or alter studies indicating
[1:27:23] fluoride toxic effects. Bryson discusses
research commissioned by the fluoride
[1:27:30] lawyers committee whose members included
major industrial companies such as
[1:27:35] Alcoa, US Steel, Kaiser Aluminum, and
Reynolds Metals. The Karing Laboratory
[1:27:41] at the University of Cincinnati
conducted animal research into fluoride
[1:27:46] toxicity. I actually got to read that
study also, but I believe I have it
[1:27:50] here. According to the publishers's
description, a roughly $500,000
[1:27:56] study found evidence of fluoride related
damage to the lungs and lymph nodes of
[1:28:02] laboratory animals, but the study was
never published and was effectively
[1:28:06] buried. Bryson says he located a copy
decades later in archival material. That
[1:28:12] copy is now available. His case is
primarily about suppressed unpublished
[1:28:17] research, government secrecy, industry
funded research, and the almighty
[1:28:23] conflicts of interest. Selective
interpretation scientists whose careers
[1:28:27] were affected
when they challenged prevailing
[1:28:31] conclusions, declassification documents
showing that forite toxicity had legal
[1:28:37] industrial significance beyond beyond
dentistry.
[1:28:42] Uh, a 2004 review in chemical and
engineering news characterized Bryson's
[1:28:47] evidence as compelling evidence that
powerful interests with financial stakes
[1:28:53] had worked together to prematurely close
discussions on fluoride toxicity. The
[1:28:59] almighty dollar always prevails, doesn't
it? In 2001, Dr. Herszy, senior vice
[1:29:05] president at Porter's union, spoke to
the US EPA on behalf of the of his union
[1:29:10] doctors.
He said, I quote, "In summary, we told
[1:29:15] that fluoridation is an unreasonable
risk. That is, the toxicity of fluoride
[1:29:21] is so great and the purported benefits
associated with it are so small, if
[1:29:27] there are any at all, that requiring
every man, woman, and child in America
[1:29:32] to ingest it borders on criminal
behavior on the part of governments."
[1:29:39] And here's
one of the
[1:29:42] uh the sugar industry's efforts to
manipulate research on fluoride
[1:29:47] effectiveness and toxicity. A 90-year
history. I read this whole thing also
[1:29:52] for you guys. Results. I'll summarize
it. Records dating back to the 1930s.
[1:29:59] Demonstrate the sugar industry sometimes
in cooperation with dental interests.
[1:30:05] exaggerated fluoride's effectiveness and
downplayed safety concerns. The sugar
[1:30:11] industry's science manipulation campaign
preceded the better known tobacco
[1:30:18] industry campaign defending cigarettes.
Key leaders of the sugar industries
[1:30:23] campaign transferred to the tobacco
industry which then adopted many of the
[1:30:28] sugar industries tactics and financed
research from some of the same sugar
[1:30:34] conflicted scientists. [cough] Currently
a prominent safety issue with fluoride
[1:30:39] is developmental neurotoxicity.
Evidence indicates that researchers with
[1:30:46] undisclosed conflicts of interest with
sugar and allied industries produced
[1:30:51] biased
reviews downplaying the risk.
[1:30:56] Conclusion:
Recently available records reveal a long
[1:31:00] history of the sugar industry distorting
fluoride science. Many of the sugar
[1:31:06] industry tactics were later adopted by
the tobacco industry and mirrored by
[1:31:10] industries involved in asbestos, lead
pesticides, climate change deni, climate
[1:31:17] change denial and others. Researchers
and policy makers should be aware of the
[1:31:22] distorted scientific record regarding
fluoride effectiveness and toxicity.
[1:31:30] [laughter]
[1:31:35] I promise you I'm almost done here.
Fluoride. Uh, okay. So, questions about
[1:31:42] Oh, but my teeth, you know, all this.
So, the international recently, very
[1:31:47] recently, the international academy of
oral medicine and toxicology says
[1:31:54] fluoride exposure in human health. In
their studies, they say increased
[1:31:59] sources of fluoride exposure. Mind you,
this is this is the International
[1:32:04] Academy of Oral Medicine and toxicology.
They're the guys who who do the studies
[1:32:09] whether dentures are good for you or not
or if uh if fluoride or other things are
[1:32:16] good for you or not. Okay. So, increased
sources of fluoride exposure are
[1:32:19] accompanied by increased human health
risks.
[1:32:24] Therefore, it has become a necessity to
reduce and work toward eliminating
[1:32:28] avoidable sources of fluoride exposure,
including water fluoridation, fluoride
[1:32:34] containing dental materials and other
fluoridated products.
[1:32:39] The potential health risks generated
from exposure to these sources of
[1:32:44] fluoride are often overlooked.
Additionally, age, gender, genetic
[1:32:49] factors, nutritional status, weight, and
other factors are known to influence
[1:32:54] each person's unique reaction to
fluoride.
[1:32:58] Okay? And then on their this guys, this
was copied and pasted from their
[1:33:04] website. It's not me putting stuff
together, okay? I want you to understand
[1:33:07] this. This is on their website, on their
on their books, on their Okay. And then
[1:33:13] they they go on to mention what they've
studies they've you know they've
[1:33:18] conducted these are independent studies
acne and other dermatological
[1:33:23] dermatological conditions bone weakness
and risk fractures cardiac failure
[1:33:30] cognitive deficits diabetes if you have
diabetes it it it influences it it just
[1:33:37] makes it worse I guess.
uh and I'll skip through some of these.
[1:33:43] Myioardial damage, arterial
calcification,
[1:33:47] arter uh arterioclerosis,
cancer of of the bone, osteocaroma,
[1:33:55] cardiac insufficiency,
arm to fetal brain, immune system
[1:34:00] complications, lower IQ, neurotoxic
effects including ADHD,
[1:34:06] thyroid dysfunction. So in their studies
they found what other studies were also
[1:34:11] finding.
[1:34:15] If you don't know what dental fluorosis
is, there's a picture. I'm sure we've
[1:34:20] seen this.
So is fluorid so is fluoridation
[1:34:25] effective? Are the benefits
which outweigh the risks? Are there
[1:34:30] benefits which outweigh the risks? There
is now agreement among dental
[1:34:34] researchers that any benefit of fluoride
in fighting tooth decay comes from
[1:34:38] direct application to the teeth not from
ingestion.
[1:34:45] Um the effect effectiveness of
fluoridation is more myth and science.
[1:34:51] Most European countries are not
fluidated yet. The World Health
[1:34:55] Organization statistics statistics show
that European dental decay rates have
[1:35:01] gone down [snorts] in Europe.
In addition, major US cities such as
[1:35:07] Seattle, Chicago, Cincinnati, and Boston
have been flidating for decades.
[1:35:14] Yet, they all are reporting rampant
tooth decay among children.
[1:35:19] Adequate dental care and nutrition diet
are critical in reducing tooth decay and
[1:35:25] both are absent in the low-income
populations of these cities.
[1:35:30] I've had some questions. Is baiting or
swimming in fluoridated water harmful
[1:35:34] for us or our pets? The only thing I
could find
[1:35:39] it was that several studies indicate
that fluoride can be absorbed through
[1:35:43] the skin,
but much more research I think is
[1:35:47] needed. But if it's absorbed through the
skin, I would assume, again, I'm not a
[1:35:52] doctor or a scientist, but if fluoride
can be absorbed through the skin, you're
[1:35:56] taking a shower in fluoridated
fluoridated water or swimming in your
[1:36:01] pool that's loaded with that. Uh it's
it's being right.
[1:36:07] Uh
so it [clears throat] is medically
[1:36:12] irresponsible
and unethical to administer to everyone
[1:36:18] without informed consent the same
medication without first determined
[1:36:22] individual need. This is what the world
health organization also said.
[1:36:28] So we have
[clears throat] 72 studies
[1:36:33] that assess the fluoride IQ link.
Um but actually after an 8-year
[1:36:40] systematic review, the federal
government's toxicology program
[1:36:44] concluded with moderate confidence that
higher fluoride exposure is consistently
[1:36:50] associated with lower IQ in children. I
have to reiterate on that. I I used to
[1:36:55] be a teacher. So for me this is
important. 72 studies assessed the
[1:36:59] fluoride ink link. 88% of them, 64
studies found lower IQ with higher
[1:37:06] fluoride. 18 of 19 studies of the
highest quality studies show the same
[1:37:11] association.
[1:37:16] Let's go to the legal things, legal
finding.
[1:37:20] A federal court has already weighed in
in this evidence. the Food and Water
[1:37:26] Watch versus EPA in uh September 2024,
they determined, and I quote, "Foridated
[1:37:35] drinking water presents a risk of injury
to health."
[1:37:40] Judge Edward Chen found that
fluoridation at the recommended 0.7
[1:37:45] milligrams per liter poses an
unreasonable risk of reduced IQ in
[1:37:51] children under the Toxic Substances
Control Act in order that the EPA take
[1:37:58] in order the EPA to take regulatory
action.
[1:38:04] » Who who was that?
>> That was the uh the food and water watch
[1:38:09] versus EPA. It was in the US District
Court of
[1:38:14] uh Intel ND California September 2024.
It's on that packet that I gave you.
[1:38:22] So,
we wouldn't be alone. The country is
[1:38:26] already moving on this. Um numerous
states including Florida and many others
[1:38:33] have already eliminated
uh fluoride out of their water 100%.
[1:38:39] Federal you have a uh September 2020 for
a federal court ruling.
[1:38:45] You have JAMA pediatrics
peer-reviewed meta analysis links
[1:38:50] chloride to lower children IQ and other
health problems which I've mentioned
[1:38:54] already. The HHS and EPA reviews show
also the same uh problems in and u in
[1:39:04] what it can do to our health. um
statewide bans Utah, Florida and then
[1:39:10] Florida become the first states to ban
fluidation
[1:39:14] and so the way it spreads uh the FDA now
is moving on children's fluoride to drop
[1:39:20] it get rid [snorts] of it and and it's
that's something that they're trying to
[1:39:24] do mind you that next door to us already
got rid of fluoride
[1:39:31] if you didn't
[1:39:38] So,
you know, I could go into the whole, you
[1:39:42] know, why are you medicating us?
Medicating a whole town without
[1:39:45] individual consent, no informed consent.
Fluor fluoride works on contact. One
[1:39:51] dose for everyone is wrong. A 20 pound
infant in a 120 pound adult get fluoride
[1:39:57] from the same water with no ability to
adjust for body size or health. I talked
[1:40:01] about that.
Uh,
[1:40:07] and that's it. I think I'm going to stop
there. I think I've given you guys tons
[1:40:11] of information. I hear people falling
asleep behind me. So, I I'm just going
[1:40:14] to give you guys now some of these
studies. Fluoride,
[1:40:20] uh, friend or foe.
>> You know, if that's your five minute
[1:40:23] presentation, [laughter]
I'm just kidding.
[1:40:27] » I'm going to keep my mouth shut, but
here. All right. friend or foe.
[1:40:32] Uh
prenatal exposure to fluoride. Here's
[1:40:36] one study, one of many studies.
Uh parental fluoride exposure and
[1:40:42] attention deficit hyperactivity
disorder. Here's a study. Prenatal
[1:40:48] fluoride exposure the outcomes in two US
pregnancy cohorts. Remember I told about
[1:40:54] uh fluoride passing the placenta and
causing problems. So here's that study.
[1:41:00] Fluoride exposure in children's IQ
scores. There's one. The effect of
[1:41:04] fluoride on cytotoxicity
uh involved in mitochondrial dysfunction
[1:41:13] ingestible fluoride drug products.
Uh scientific evaluation of use benefits
[1:41:21] and risks in the pediatric population.
These ones actually come from the FDA
[1:41:27] and I found a website actually Billy led
me to that website fluoride Action
[1:41:32] Network. Um it has a ton of information.
Uh and of course some people are going
[1:41:40] to say well they're biased guys. The
American Heart Association is biased.
[1:41:46] Okay. uh
fluoride action network really has a
[1:41:51] page in there with a collection of all
of a lot of the studies not all of them
[1:41:55] a lot of these here are not in there but
but it has a collection of of studies so
[1:42:00] if you want to educate yourself and you
want to get information they have a ton
[1:42:05] of information and for me it's like this
I like med I like IA I like you know you
[1:42:11] can go there and research and they have
everything cataloged in there all of
[1:42:15] these researches aail available online.
Uh you can literally go to med and and
[1:42:21] find all of that.
>> Yeah.
[1:42:23] » Okay.
>> So,
[1:42:25] » you ready to get to the question and
>> Yeah.
[1:42:28] » answer portion?
>> Do my best? Yes.
[1:42:31] » Okay.
[1:42:35] [snorts]
>> Mr. Taylor,
[1:42:36] » anybody else got any?
>> I believe that
[1:42:39] you have the floor in this. Isaac, you
have questions?
[1:42:44] Thanks for doing a good job.
>> Hey Joe, I we we appreciate
[1:42:50] » all of the information that you've given
us. You're welcome.
[1:42:52] » Um
[1:42:57] I do have to say
that I'm glad that um we all had the
[1:43:03] opportunity ourselves
>> Yeah.
[1:43:05] » to research um outside of this
presentation. Um and I'm not I'm not
[1:43:11] saying anything about your your
presentation. It was great. It was full
[1:43:15] of [snorts] uh information and
knowledge. [clears throat] Um but it was
[1:43:21] very clearly based toward removing
fluoride. Um
[1:43:29] there are also arguments guys. This
brought up to me two years ago um and
[1:43:35] Corey. So we've been back and forth. Um
[clears throat]
[1:43:40] we've talked about it a little bit. has
been brought up again
[1:43:45] and uh there are arguments on both sides
of it. Um because if there wasn't, it
[1:43:52] wouldn't already be in the water. So um
with that in mind, Corey has some
[1:44:00] questions for you. Um I don't think
Isaac has too many. Maybe a few.
[1:44:05] » Yeah, a few. Okay,
>> we'll let Cory go first.
[1:44:08] » And so we're gonna we're gonna give Cory
the floor for a minute. Sure. You don't
[1:44:11] want to get yours out.
>> And and that's basically why I like I
[1:44:15] said right at the beginning, I looked at
both sides,
[1:44:19] » you know, like a scale. And and the more
I read, the more I and and when I
[1:44:24] started seeing the the facts of the
sugar industry skewing things, you know,
[1:44:29] I started finding a lot of foul cheese
in there and a lot of all of this stuff
[1:44:32] that goes on unfortunately in this
world. And of course, then, you know,
[1:44:38] the scale for me started tipping because
and and and that's that's absolutely
[1:44:42] fine. I mean, [clears throat]
honestly, I already knew that before you
[1:44:47] done this because you're very passionate
about it. You've been very open about
[1:44:50] it. Um, but we're going to let Corey ask
some questions.
[1:44:56] Um,
[1:44:59] so
[1:45:03] first off, Billy, I know you're on
vacation. Would you confirm something
[1:45:08] for me? I think I asked you this, but I
wasn't really sure how to answer.
[1:45:12] Um,
Vanessa gave me these. These are the
[1:45:17] water reports we have that I think we
send to
[1:45:21] » at least we do we have it available for
everybody.
[1:45:24] » I know we have like information on here
as far as our
[1:45:28] » levels,
>> wellad or le our toxicity levels.
[1:45:32] » Yes.
>> Bacteria levels, things like that.
[1:45:37] Um,
okay. Well, the wellhead
[1:45:42] information is in here. I mean, we can
not in here, but we can there's a note
[1:45:46] in there that you guys can you guys can
get it. I know there was on Facebook
[1:45:50] there was a question about arsenic at
one point runoff from farms and fields
[1:45:55] and you know there is a board that kind
of monitors all of that and checks on
[1:46:00] all those things and it's all stuff that
has to be sent in to I think we work
[1:46:04] with Wesler on their other side another
department to put all that information
[1:46:09] together for the public.
Um,
[1:46:17] where do I start?
[1:46:22] Um,
so you mentioned
[1:46:29] that the stuff that we put in we use to
fluoridate the water
[1:46:34] hydro florosic.
>> We use the sodium fluoride.
[1:46:38] » We use the sodium fluoride.
>> I mentioned the three mostly. Yeah.
[1:46:44] » Uh well, you specifically called out
HSA, HSW or whatever
[1:46:51] » HFS
um as a
[1:46:57] byproduct
is sodium fluoride a byproduct of
[1:47:03] » industrial chemical synthetics and
[1:47:09] » that's from from what I've red. The
sodium fluoride is actually
[1:47:17] a compound that is produced,
not scraped off of a
[1:47:24] » okay
>> pollution.
[1:47:28] » The study is there. You could, you know,
find it.
[1:47:34] » Um,
[1:47:37] so I just I I'm concerned. concerned.
I'm not necessarily concerned about
[1:47:42] everything that you
>> still wait for a question.
[1:47:46] » I know
maybe I'm not want to ask a question.
[1:47:50] Maybe I just want comments. How about
that? Okay. Can I comment?
[1:47:54] » Absolutely.
>> Sure can.
[1:47:55] » Cool.
>> Okay. Um Okay. So, I'm just This is This
[1:48:01] is the first thing, right? And so, it's
not pharmaceutical grade. It's toxic.
[1:48:05] It's a carcinogen. Yet, we're going to
say we're medicated.
[1:48:09] Well, okay. Medication would be pharm
pharm.
[1:48:16] If we're not medicating, if it if it is
toxic, then no, we're actually poison.
[1:48:21] Is that what she would say?
>> Okay.
[1:48:27] » But we're but we specifically use
medication for lack of consent. Anytime
[1:48:33] you administer
a chemical
[1:48:39] or a product that is
something like that, you're you're
[1:48:44] medicating somebody
uh
[1:48:48] or poisoning them.
>> Well, in this case, yes.
[1:48:52] » Okay. I mean, the studies and the
[1:48:57] stuff that I presented to you or the
stuff that I read point links to all of
[1:49:01] that.
>> Gotcha.
[1:49:04] Well,
I I looked up a lot of these
[1:49:11] that you pointed out.
Um, let's go here to Mr. Hardy Limeback.
[1:49:20] Um I listened to him.
He was talking about this was uh 1999 I
[1:49:27] think somewhere late 90s
>> somewhere around
[1:49:30] » um and he said that the evidence of
fluidation is more harmful than
[1:49:35] beneficial.
Um I think if I'm not mistaken
[1:49:41] one of the things he was talking about
was fluoride supplements, pills and
[1:49:47] drugs. literally talks about foridation
of water water foration.
[1:49:53] » He did bring that up.
>> Yeah.
[1:49:56] » Um in August 19th, 2005, you said the
unions representing over 7,000
[1:50:03] professional employees called for a
nationwide moratorum on fidation and
[1:50:08] also congressional investigation of it.
>> What came about that moratorum?
[1:50:15] » Did they did they enact it? Uh they they
they did some of it but as that's why I
[1:50:22] brought in the sugar industry.
>> Yeah.
[1:50:23] » Things get shut off and get thrown under
the rug
[1:50:27] » because companies like the sugar
industry or the tobacco industry in this
[1:50:32] case [snorts] the sugar industry
basically put money in the right
[1:50:36] people's pockets and things get pushed
to the side.
[1:50:40] » Well, so actually they did not enact it.
>> I I don't think so. No, it was brought
[1:50:45] up, but it was never reconnected. It was
thrown in that
[1:50:48] » and and the reason the reason they said
they they didn't do it is that
[1:50:52] » that the standard recommendation levels
are safe.
[1:50:57] » The what?
>> Standard recommend recommended levels
[1:51:00] are safe.
>> Well, that's what they try to pass. If
[1:51:03] you look at if you read the book like I
did, they they mention
[1:51:08] » this isn't a book. This is this is the
unions.
[1:51:11] » Yes. But that's also in the book. That's
part of all of that. the findings. If
[1:51:15] you read the book, it talks about all of
these findings.
[1:51:17] » Yeah, I went I went to the actual
>> Okay.
[1:51:20] » And they said that they stopped
uh they they did not enact it because
[1:51:25] they stated that the recommended levels
are actually safe.
[1:51:29] » Yes. And that's why I brought up the
sugar industry and all of that where
[1:51:33] just to show that
>> unfortunately there's things that are
[1:51:37] brought up,
>> you know, they find they find studies,
[1:51:40] they have studies, they fund studies,
other independent companies fund studies
[1:51:44] and they find problems with fluoride in
this case and things get shoved under
[1:51:51] the rug because you know the big
industry basically paying these people
[1:51:55] to hash keep it down because this is not
beneficial for us. else to explain that
[1:52:00] to you, but that's pretty much
>> So the unions were paid off.
[1:52:05] » Some unions were paid off. Some of the
>> pull back the moratorum.
[1:52:10] » The biggest concern for me is not even
the getting paid off. It's the
[1:52:13] scientists who are paid off and the
studies that conclude that fluoride is
[1:52:18] good for you were conducted by
scientists who are being paid by the
[1:52:22] sugar industry. That's what my problem
with all of this.
[1:52:26] » I got you.
[1:52:30] » Um, and you you put down here in June
2005, scientists at the Environmental
[1:52:35] Working Group asked the National
Institutes of Health to list fluoride in
[1:52:38] tap water as a carcinogen.
>> Mhm.
[1:52:42] » Was it?
>> Yes.
[1:52:44] » Actually, it wasn't.
>> No, they they they did recommend that.
[1:52:48] » I mean, I looked it up. It's not labeled
by anybody as a carcinogen. No, you
[1:52:52] asked me a question. I'm sorry. Ask me
that question again. Maybe I didn't
[1:52:56] understand.
>> In June 20, you put in June 2005.
[1:53:01] » Uhhuh.
>> Scientists at the Environmental Working
[1:53:03] Group asked the National Institutes of
Health to list fluoride in tap water as
[1:53:09] a carcinogen.
>> Yes, they did ask that.
[1:53:11] » They did ask it.
>> So, what was your question?
[1:53:14] » Did the NIH
list fluoride as a carcinogen?
[1:53:20] » That I don't know. They did not.
>> Okay. [cough]
[1:53:25] » Why did not Why did they not?
>> Uh because because there's no study
[1:53:30] showing specifically with imperial
imperial evidence
[1:53:36] » that it is the cause the cause
>> of cancer.
[1:53:42] » So you're going to tell me that all of
the other 80 something studies
[1:53:48] » go ahead
>> that showed that and they're right
[1:53:50] there. some of them on your table.
They're all wrong.
[1:53:53] » One that shows
>> I'm not saying that.
[1:53:57] » Well, I'm just
>> Okay.
[1:53:59] » Okay.
>> The uh So, you you had in here about the
[1:54:04] fluoride deception
um by Christopher Bryson.
[1:54:10] » Um
he discusses how industry and the
[1:54:13] military work behind the scenes to bury
or alter studies. Yep. Manhattan
[1:54:17] project. Um,
I never really
[1:54:22] » Did you read the book?
>> No, I'm not going to read.
[1:54:24] » I read the book 400 pages of Would you
like me to describe it for you?
[1:54:27] » Not really.
>> Okay, because I can if you want. Also,
[1:54:31] run home and get the book if you want to
read it.
[1:54:33] » It's okay.
>> Um,
[1:54:40] see
about that.
[1:54:45] Um,
[1:54:50] so here, well, here's another one. Um,
[1:54:56] is it required to flidate your water?
>> No.
[1:55:00] » Okay. So, here you put 2001. Dr. William
Persie,
[1:55:05] senior vice president of headquarters
union said,
[1:55:09] "In summary, we hold that flidation is
an unre unreasonable risk that is toxic.
[1:55:14] It's the toxicity of fluoride is so
great blah blah blah
[1:55:20] uh that requiring every man, woman, and
child in America to ingest it is
[1:55:26] criminal. Well, we don't have to add it.
>> No, no, we don't.
[1:55:31] » So, it's it's not required to force
people.
[1:55:34] » Only thing we have to do is disinfect
it. Make sure there's no microorganisms
[1:55:38] in it.
>> But that's what he said. That's what he
[1:55:40] said. Yeah.
Um, I'm just kind of pointing out that
[1:55:45] it's it's not required.
Um,
[1:55:50] I'll do this here. Uh, so you said, "How
can we uh how can we and our pets avoid
[1:55:55] fluoride explo exposure?" Well, yeah.
Avoid it by don't drinking it. Don't
[1:56:01] drink it. Don't take other things. I
agree with that. If you don't want to
[1:56:06] have it in you, don't drink it. Ingest
it. Um,
[1:56:11] » I had a lot more about water and dogs
and all that, but I removed it just for
[1:56:16] the sake of time.
>> Yeah.
[1:56:22] » You know that it's been uh advised by
the EPA and CDC for decades
[1:56:29] not to give your infants
fluidated water.
[1:56:34] I mean, I know when I had kids, that's
we used nursery water, which was bottled
[1:56:39] water with no fluoride, right?
>> But a lot of people don't know that.
[1:56:43] » Yeah.
>> Unless you go out and read it and study
[1:56:48] it and educate yourself.
>> Yeah, I know. This is crazy how much is
[1:56:51] out there.
Um
[1:56:56] CDC actually recommends that children
three and older
[1:57:02] that they do use fluoride fluoridated
tap water.
[1:57:08] That's what that's what they said on the
website. But then the dental
[1:57:12] association, right, that I mentioned in
there has studies that say otherwise,
[1:57:18] right?
>> So what do you mean that?
[1:57:20] » Yes. Not what I found.
>> And also the case that you decide you
[1:57:28] cited from your stuff, the ninth circuit
case, it's been overturned and demanded
[1:57:32] because of procedural errors and that
they didn't touch the science in the
[1:57:36] original court case.
>> Well, well, here let's clear this up
[1:57:40] because so the judge said that they
needed to do something about it, that
[1:57:44] they needed to investigate it.
>> It was overturned because that judge
[1:57:49] overreached.
That's what I found. And he he didn't
[1:57:52] have the authority to to force that.
>> Yes. But it was a procedural opinion. It
[1:57:57] was not scientific or have any merits
regarding fluidation or anything. It was
[1:58:01] a procedural thing and it's been
overturned.
[1:58:07] Um,
[1:58:11] the NRC
2006,
[1:58:18] what did they determine
[1:58:22] as far as the recommended levels?
Do you guys do you remember?
[1:58:28] » That's okay. Yeah. So,
>> so, so the way they had it is that um.7
[1:58:35] to 1.2
millgram per liter was the
[1:58:41] » was the old standard
>> was the the
[1:58:46] suggested the recommended level.
>> I think they've actually dropped it in
[1:58:52] 2014
2011 or 2014 to just saying 7, right?
[1:58:58] » Yes.
two
[1:59:01] milligrams is actually the secondary.
You said that secondary
[1:59:06] uh warning.
>> So, it's it's the beginning of the hey,
[1:59:10] we're going to potentially have a
problem. Four is the anything above four
[1:59:18] milligrams per liter is is becomes an
issue. So if we did if we did that
[1:59:27] at what we say three liters a day I
think the average for a man's 3.7 and a
[1:59:33] average for a woman is 2.7
adult talk about adults would be what?
[1:59:39] So we take three times four and that's
12 milligrams
[1:59:44] a day
is the is the tipping point if you will
[1:59:53] and they recommended to lower that. They
did they did recommend to lower that. Um
[1:59:59] 2.0 was the level because that's
whenever they started seeing that dental
[2:00:03] fluorosis. Does that make sense?
[snorts]
[2:00:07] Um, is dental fluorosis a health risk?
>> Yeah, you lose your teeth.
[2:00:12] » Okay. Well, they don't actually call it
a health risk
[2:00:16] because it's cosmetic issue.
>> Have you looked at dental ferosis look
[2:00:22] like?
>> Oh, yeah.
[2:00:23] » Okay.
>> You don't think that's a health risk? I
[2:00:26] mean, again,
>> I'm not I'm not saying what I think.
[2:00:28] » Doctor, I'm just saying
>> I'm saying what the powers that be say
[2:00:32] it is.
>> If my if my teeth start looking like
[2:00:34] that, I'm concerned. probably the ones
in the pockets, I guess. Um,
[2:00:46] if one of the um
in 2005, the Centers for Disease uh
[2:00:53] control reported that 32% of US children
had some sort of uh form of dental
[2:01:00] fluorosis
>> is what you put in here.
[2:01:02] » Yeah.
Uh
[2:01:07] but on nonfidated
uh children
[2:01:13] they had up to five times more tooth
decay
[2:01:19] from
from [snorts] that same thing, same
[2:01:23] study.
Um
[2:01:30] you know uh what do you what would you
attribute to the main cause of tooth
[2:01:35] decay?
>> Me personally.
[2:01:38] » Yeah.
>> Diet issues. Sugar.
[2:01:40] » Sugar
and they have related that to the sugar
[2:01:46] increase in our diet.
>> Sure.
[2:01:48] » Not the fluoride levels.
[2:01:53] Um,
[2:02:00] you sent me to fluoride alert.org.
I think I think that's where I went.
[2:02:09] Uh,
and you know, we talked about biasedness
[2:02:12] and I think you even mentioned this at
the end that everybody has has an
[2:02:16] agenda, right? And their main goal is to
stop flidation.
[2:02:21] because they believe that the the cons
outweigh the pros, right?
[2:02:26] » Yeah. But they have a bias and
>> so does the medical heart association.
[2:02:32] So does the diet American diet u you
know when you believe in a cause I guess
[2:02:39] I don't know what to tell you if you
believe you do the study do the research
[2:02:42] and you believe that something is not
good you going to research it and
[2:02:47] [snorts]
you know
[2:02:49] » yeah so here at the end of your
references you referenced Buzzal 2004
[2:03:00] you know you know a lot of these these
things these these these cases were were
[2:03:04] good. Um you'll notice that most of them
prior to 2006 which is the NF NRC 2006
[2:03:13] uh review
uh a lot of this stuff actually created
[2:03:20] all these standards that we have now.
Basel
[2:03:25] » uh food was added as a risk factor for
fluorosis
[2:03:29] not just water fluoridation.
>> Oh yeah of course I did mention that
[2:03:34] » fine in 2001 found that bone meal was
the cause of the high fluoridation.
[2:03:40] » It can be sure
>> in in dog food
[2:03:44] » because because uh as I mentioned too
fluoride when you when you ingest
[2:03:49] fluoride your body doesn't get rid of
all of it. it accumulates it in your
[2:03:53] body and the the area where it
accumulates it the most is your bones.
[2:03:58] So for example, bone broth. People who
enjoy bone broth have to be very careful
[2:04:02] because depending where that bone broth
is coming from because they could be
[2:04:06] extremely high in fluoride. [snorts]
[2:04:13] » Uh so you said uh during the last Well,
maybe you didn't say this. I don't know.
[2:04:19] You gave this to us. Uh
>> remember everything that I put in there
[2:04:24] is based on the research that I did and
find that I um in the research train. So
[2:04:30] » right
[2:04:34] you have in here it says during the last
15 to 20 years there's been a revolution
[2:04:39] in our understanding of fluoride's
effects on teeth. It is now well
[2:04:43] established that fluoride exposure is
directly and proportionately related to
[2:04:47] dental fluorosis. A range of adverse
health effects that includes modeling
[2:04:52] pittling and pitting and weakening of
the teeth.
[2:04:57] And one of these you cited
as for that which you know dental I
[2:05:04] think that's pretty pretty well uh
agreed upon
[2:05:08] uh still affected that systemic over
topical
[2:05:14] was better for its lower safer exposure
>> topical
[2:05:19] » systemic over topical
[2:05:24] for just feder fedc 12
[2:05:29] study.
[2:05:33] Uh, I just, man, I just
some of these statements, man, when I
[2:05:39] got into them and I and I looked at what
you found it on, I just went a little
[2:05:46] further and found, but then it goes back
to
[2:05:50] fluoride
is associated with an issue, but not
[2:05:54] necessarily the cause.
And I mean there in all the of the
[2:06:02] things that I looked at it came back to
fluidating water was the best result the
[2:06:09] best way to affect the
certain areas of the country that can't
[2:06:17] get dental health. I think that's really
what the issue is is we're fluidating
[2:06:22] the water not for the people who can go
to the dentist all the time. It's for
[2:06:27] the people who don't.
[2:06:32] And
I mean
[2:06:36] I don't know.
[2:06:40] I don't know.
>> [snorts]
[2:06:45] » I found a lot of this inflammatory, I
guess, is what I'm really saying. The
[2:06:49] osteocaroma.
[2:06:52] They couldn't they they couldn't
determine Well, actually, I think I
[2:06:56] think I did find one one place where it
was linked to silicates
[2:07:03] uh pulling lead out of
pipes,
[2:07:09] lead uh lead and brass fittings. And
that was creating an issue because
[2:07:14] silicates are what?
>> Minerals.
[2:07:19] » Spinach [clears throat] has silicates in
it.
[2:07:21] » Huh?
>> Spinach has silicates.
[2:07:24] » Yeah. Well, probably because we water
them with fluoridated water.
[2:07:28] » It's depending on the soil that the
plants grow in.
[2:07:31] » Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I mean,
um,
[2:07:37] I I guess what I wanted to ask you on
this was, is this something that we the
[2:07:42] testing that we do that you're putting
on this report? Is that before or after
[2:07:46] we flate?
>> That's after.
[2:07:48] » That's after.
>> Everything is sent to a third party lab
[2:07:54] on those reports. Um, Eli Labs out of
Madison, Indiana does all of our outside
[2:08:00] testing for circle for the majority of
things.
[2:08:06] Um,
also you you mentioned that uh
[2:08:14] at at at 4.0
then they could enforce an issue on us
[2:08:20] and they can't, can they? We can't be we
can't we can't do something about our
[2:08:26] flidation if it's high
naturally. Well, it's not
[2:08:33] » I I know but there are places in the
country where it is.
[2:08:36] » There's places in the country where it's
where it's 10 milligrams per liter.
[2:08:39] » Yeah.
>> 12.
[2:08:42] » I mean, but there's no process in which
we can reduce it.
[2:08:47] » Well, filtration systems.
>> Well, without filtration, so it's we're
[2:08:54] not set up for all that. That's
>> we don't need it.
[2:08:57] What I'm saying though is it's not you
can't enforce
[2:09:02] » like there's no law saying we have to be
below a certain level.
[2:09:05] » Yeah, there is.
>> There is law.
[2:09:08] » Same thing with our sneaking everything
else.
[2:09:10] » Well, that one there is
[2:09:14] lead
>> and fluoride also. If your fluoride is
[2:09:17] above the recommend
>> I didn't find one on fluoride.
[2:09:21] » Arsenic and radium is found in fluoride.
If you even touch radium, your skin gets
[2:09:26] severe or reaction.
>> Why? Why does it come from there though?
[2:09:30] » It's
>> Why is it contained in it? It's not
[2:09:32] really contained in it. It's just in the
mixture that's found in the same
[2:09:37] fluoride.
Radium is found in the same material
[2:09:41] that's used during the industrial
>> found I gave you the research
[2:09:44] » because it's found in the ground. That's
where radium's found.
[2:09:49] » When the products are being man made
from products that are things you would
[2:09:54] not want to put on your table for
yourself to eat, for example. Okay? And
[2:09:59] they're making these chemicals to create
these, [snorts]
[2:10:03] you know, whatever additives you need to
put in your water. It's it's in there.
[2:10:08] You just have to do the research.
I I provided some of you for it. Go do
[2:10:14] the research. you will find it.
>> What I'm saying is I did it
[2:10:20] » and I came to a different conclusion.
[snorts]
[2:10:24] » So,
>> I'll tell you,
[2:10:26] » you you're entitled to your different
>> I'm not trying to be inflammatory at
[2:10:32] all. I just basically compressed the 45
minute
[2:10:35] » presentation. Okay.
>> As I go.
[2:10:38] » All right. I think um
[2:10:45] I think we've
beat this horse horse to death, as they
[2:10:49] say.
Um I I personally I'm ready for a vote.
[2:10:56] Cory, are you ready for a vote?
>> Sure.
[2:10:58] » Isaac, are you ready for a vote?
>> Yeah, let's get her done.
[2:11:02] » Before we vote, Isaac, do you have
anything to say?
[2:11:06] Uh main thing that I found um health
effects aside
[2:11:11] uh in terms of being for taking it out
is it's just not necessary to have in
[2:11:17] the water anymore. We get fluoride
>> like you said everywhere else. Um there
[2:11:22] is a little bit of a cost with it.
Um but it's a scale. Another thing that
[2:11:29] one thing that you said and this is kind
of verbatim. You said forcing people to
[2:11:33] consume fluoride. You don't have to
drink the water if you don't want to.
[2:11:39] So, you got to think about that, too.
>> Yeah.
[2:11:49] » And I mean, it's not required by the
state.
[2:11:52] » No.
>> So, it's really up to our discretion.
[2:11:57] » Maybe there isn't a right or wrong.
maybe just
[2:12:02] » so my so my take on it um is
[2:12:10] when this practice was adopted
um dental procedures were different
[2:12:17] um
dental availability was different
[2:12:23] um I feel like even in
even at at the lower standard of living,
[2:12:32] putting it as nicely as I can.
um
[2:12:39] dental care is available
for most children
[2:12:45] cuz I know I know that um it is provided
um through uh dentists that give up um a
[2:12:55] portion of their time to help children
at schools
[2:13:00] um that that don't have the ability to
to go to the dentist on their own or
[2:13:06] with their parents help. Um,
fluoride is readily
[2:13:13] um available in other manners,
whether it be through the dentist or
[2:13:21] through um special products that you
ingest.
[2:13:26] Um, when you drink water,
[2:13:31] how much of that is actually going to
your teeth? Because you're drinking the
[2:13:35] water. 99% of the time, you're not
swishing the water around in your mouth
[2:13:40] » to get get the the fluoride on your
teeth. I mean, it's it's just going
[2:13:46] straight in. Correct.
>> Yeah.
[2:13:48] » Um, so
[2:13:53] » Yeah. Those
are some things that I thought of
[2:13:58] whenever I was making up my mind on top
of a lot of the research that was um
[2:14:06] given
[clears throat]
[2:14:10] from Pedro and other people of our
community that would like to see it
[2:14:15] removed.
Um, I know there are a few
[2:14:21] because I've had way more I've had a lot
more people come to me that don't want
[2:14:25] it than would like to keep it,
especially since Pedro started putting
[2:14:29] things on uh Facebook. Um, I have seen a
few more people that would like to keep
[2:14:35] it, but I've still see way a lot more
people that want to get rid of it.
[2:14:41] Um,
>> I haven't had anybody come to me saying
[2:14:43] they want to get rid of it. I've
actually had
[2:14:47] Many people come to me and tell me they
want to keep it.
[2:14:53] » Is there anybody here that attended
today that wants to keep it or remove
[2:14:58] » I just just one thing and forgive me. I
know this thing bomb for everybody.
[2:15:03] First off, the next time we do this, I
want one of those chairs.
[2:15:08] I don't want one of these again. All
right, let's let's just get that out of
[2:15:12] the way. That's definitely something I
need. I think really what we're talking
[2:15:14] about here is a cube of effect, right?
We get fluoride everywhere, right? I'm
[2:15:18] drinking coffee, I'm drinking tea,
you're grabbing a Coke, getting a
[2:15:21] Gatorade, Similac, Enfamil, whatever it
is, everything has fluoride in it. I
[2:15:27] can't really totally control that.
That's not something that I could do.
[2:15:32] But I'm getting the fluoride that I
need. So, where can I control it? And
[2:15:37] and it is at this local level is I think
that's that's just what it is right now.
[2:15:42] And So to have the addition of fluoride
when it's not necessarily needed because
[2:15:49] of the sources that we get it from
should we continue to add it. So it
[2:15:54] still builds in our bodies. It builds in
our children's bodies. It builds in the
[2:15:59] pets bodies and to the point that it
does start to create problems at this
[2:16:06] which we can we can all see. I don't
care what side you're on. Everybody
[2:16:08] knows that there's issues if you overdo
anything,
[2:16:11] » right? I think we can all agree with
that and that's what we're starting to
[2:16:14] do. We're starting to see the open use
[cough]
[2:16:18] of it and um that's the reason we're
here. We wanted to support it at this
[2:16:23] level to say listen I got plenty of it.
I get in my toothpaste. I got plenty of
[2:16:27] it.
>> Yeah.
[2:16:28] » You know what I mean? What can I help
control to limit accumulating in my
[2:16:33] body? This is one of the ways we felt
that we would have some power to be able
[2:16:38] to to do that and help that issue.
We also we can't sorry
[2:16:44] » no go ahead
>> we can pick not to drink the water but
[2:16:47] some people don't have the resources to
not shower with the water not put it on
[2:16:51] our skin brush our teeth with the water
we're still ingesting it and what you
[2:16:55] said it can't absorb through our skin
are still soaking our bodies in it
[2:17:02] » about those that can't afford to buy
bottled water and they have to drink
[2:17:06] that water
>> or the people who are worried about
[2:17:08] bioplastics from plastic Okay. So, so
with that,
[2:17:12] » Yes, sir.
>> So, if they can't afford bottled water,
[2:17:15] they probably also can't afford
a regular
[2:17:21] dental care reg, you know, they can't
afford to go buy toothpaste every month.
[2:17:25] They can't afford to buy uh mouthwash
every other week, you know. Um, so
[2:17:34] without without picking at straws
[2:17:38] because that that we could do this all
night long.
[2:17:43] Um,
I think it's time. I think it's I think
[2:17:48] um
us we up here we pretty well already
[2:17:54] everybody at this table has made up
their mind. Um there's not going to be
[2:17:57] any more changing it.
At this time,
[2:18:02] I would like to put it up for vote
uh to remove
[2:18:08] fluoride from the water system
[2:18:13] beginning immediately.
[2:18:17] Do I have a second?
>> Second.
[2:18:21] » All those in favor? I
>> I
[2:18:24] all those
not in favor?
[2:18:28] » Nay.
[2:18:32] » Okay. Two to one. We will be
discontinuing fluoride in the Osville
[2:18:37] water system.
[2:18:43] Okay.
Well,
[2:18:46] » thank you.
>> I thank everybody for coming for that.
[2:18:49] Um, everybody that showed up on either
side of keeping it or um
[2:18:57] getting rid of it.
All the research that was done, [snorts]
[2:19:03] we thank you
and if
[2:19:08] somebody feels the need to come speak
about it, we can still
[2:19:13] talk about it. Just because we got rid
of it doesn't mean that it can't still
[2:19:17] be a discussion. Maybe at this point it
can just be a personal discussion. and
[2:19:21] you can just come talk to us and ask us
why.
[2:19:26] All right. [clears throat] Um, there
will be a special meeting on September
[2:19:31] the 10th at 6 p.m. um with the
Owensville Town Council and Mainstream
[2:19:38] and both of their
[2:19:42] legal councils, their legal council and
ours.
[2:19:46] » Um, he said he could be available by
phone. I didn't know if you wanted him
[2:19:50] to actually
>> if he does if he doesn't need to be then
[2:19:52] it's not that big a deal.
>> I think it's just coming up with what
[2:19:55] you all want the agreement to say and
then we'll draft something and then
[2:19:59] we'll get it to them and then they can
come back with the counter offer, sign
[2:20:02] it or whatever they want to do. Um I
thought it'd be best for you all to just
[2:20:07] make up your mind what you guys want. Um
>> and then start from there.
[2:20:13] » Thank you.
So [snorts] again, that is September the
[2:20:17] 10th at 6 PM and then uh the adoption of
the 2027 budget will be September the
[2:20:22] 15th at 6 PM.
These two
[2:20:27] will get to uh
vote to adopt that. I have to
[2:20:32] abstain because I'm on the fire
department
[2:20:36] » and Indiana law has not cut up caught up
with fire districts yet. So that's fun.
[2:20:43] Um, the next town council meeting will
be
[2:20:47] » October the 6th at 6:30 p.m.
>> With that, I will make a motion to
[2:20:53] adjourn the Orangeville Town Council
meeting on September the 1st at 8:23
[2:20:59] p.m. Second.