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Thanks

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regular meeting of Park Township
Planning Commission is now in session.

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First item on the agenda is the approval
of the agenda.

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Anything that anybody wants to move
around

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» second item on the agenda is the
approval of minutes from our July 23rd

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meeting. Uh I've gone through this. I
did not find any

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corrections or revisions. Does anybody
else have anything?

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» All good hearing none. Seeing none to
present

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all

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» being here. It's always nice when we
have participation and residents joining

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us. Typically, it's when we have
something that might be a bit

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interesting for those that live in the
area. So, it's it's good. We want your

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input.
We will have this set up tonight. Um the

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first thing that we'll have is public
comment. That's an opportunity for you

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for up to three minutes. Um, and the way
we'll do this tonight, we got to have

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two public breaks. One specific uh to
the butternut crossings

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and the second will be specific to Ben
Club.

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Uh, if you have something that you'd
like to speak about other than those two

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things, public comment period would be
your

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privileges to do that. If you want to
speak on either of those other topics,

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we would have to hear

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everybody on. We got a request that
sometimes we're a bit hard to hear,

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particularly if you're listening.
So, we want to make sure that you're on

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and we're up close. Okay. Okay. with
that open public comment and uh if you

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do have just I'll give you since we have
a number of people just kind of provide

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a few grounds uh which is why both the
public comment also public hearings uh

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this is the time to hear from you
welcome your comments which are very

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important to us and they play into our
conversations

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um we do want to comments excuse me
three minutes 30 the debate is really

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the three minutes each. Obviously, the
applicants have

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us. Um, as a reminder, when you do come
up to the podium to speak, please do

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give us your name. Write your name down.
Should be a form up there to do that.

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And, uh, so do please sign in and, um,
give us your name.

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And please do address your comments to
the chair. Um note that we won't look at

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the dialogue with you during this time.
This is your opportunity. It's our

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opportunity to listen to your comments.
Um the meeting itself belongs to the

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planning commission. So once the
comments are completed and in this case

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the presentation for each of the two
we'll have our discussion and then we

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will come to a decision on next steps.
So you'll be able to understand that

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process. Everything we do is in an open
meeting process. That's requirement. And

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so you will see you will see in here
everything we talk about consider.

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Um
and if you do have factual questions

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that come up that you're not in a
position to answer, you can direct those

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to staff and they'll follow up with
response for you. Okay. So with those

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ground rules, uh let's start with public
comment. So let's start uh on the right

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hand side this time. Any comments that
are not pertaining

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across

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the right hand side over the left hand
side. Any comments? Yes.

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Okay. So

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about C2 also on the tree ordinance. I
just want to reiterate that as you guys

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are playing
a utopian perfect solution for all these

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things
in real life

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issues real life copy boundaries like
lack of oil because of requirements for

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boat storage
all those things. So please consider

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what's actually happens.

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Not quite sure what you're actually
getting

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less.
Thank you.

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» All right. Any other folks at this time
that would like to speak to something

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that's not relevant projects?
If not, we'll go ahead and close this

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public comment and move on to the
development review and public hearing.

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At this point, we always discuss this.
Is it better to do the public hearing

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before the presentation and the final PE
or what's your thoughts?

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» Uh why because this has been presented
before, why don't we go ahead and do

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first? Okay.
>> Thank you. In that case, uh we need a

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motion to open the public hearing.
>> All in favor?

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» I public hearing is open. Uh let's
start. Uh this time with left side uh

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right and this is on 109 crossings. So
this is on plan use development which

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would be this to give some context. This
is property directly across west high

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school and we have Pat review on this.
So this is the file.

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Okay. Anyone on the left?

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Anybody on our right or left?
>> I think I know why everybody's here. All

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right. [laughter]

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» Okay. All in favor of closing the public
hearing and

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with that
like present

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discussion.

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stay

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in my brothers meeting.
Uh so we were here last month. I think

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we had a good discussion

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state of
plant because of the collaboration that

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we have both the staff and planning
commission. So we appreciate the

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feedback um and I'm just going to
briefly kind of go over

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set changes that were made um and just
some of the things that we identified at

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a few of those things and then mostly
we're just here to answer your

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questions.

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» [clears throat]
>> So this is noted in the report but just

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calling attention to it. Um there were
additional trees that were placed around

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the storm water detention based

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so

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we had
to um

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most that space a little bit adjacent to
the uh to the detection

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idea. So, so we won't take all the
credit. Shake your hand in that. Um,

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one of the things noted on the static
report, um, the note about a 20-year

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growth plan, and I recall that there
being a little bit of discussion about

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it, um, but I guess, um, that wasn't
necessarily clear to us that that was a

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very strict directive. Um, but uh, you
know, in in reviewing that staff report,

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I do have some imagery that I can show
you if you like. You guys wanted to see

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that of of what sort of a 20-year growth
on those trees would look like. And what

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you see in the plan isn't necessarily
what trees will look like the day

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they're planted. There is certainly some
growth that you see there. 20 years.

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Okay, maybe
diameter to their um to the canopy of

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the tree. So, I brought some inventory
if you wanted to look at that. Um but

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again, the L100 sheet the landscape plan
you see is pretty well representative of

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what those trees would look like.
Look at that if you'd like.

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» [clears throat]
>> Um,

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one of the things in the report I guess
I just wanted to quick clarify I think I

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think I understand
what it was.

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It's a point of clarification for staff
noted the minimum powerful sizing

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15
water and sewers available. We're

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assuming that that very specific to a
single family meant

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of connection if and when available.

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» One of the items in your report though
that we do want to talk some pretty

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specific attention to is the setbacks
recommendation for that

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single family residence. So,
[clears throat]

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and I think we we kind of see how it was
determined, but just something that I

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want to talk about that. So, it's noted
uh that staff recommends front yard 40

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sideyard on the north side 10 ft side as
30 of course that sideyard and south is

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the location now
and

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walking area. Um, so it's understandable
why that would be increased to 30, but

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the rear yard, which is the western
portion of the site. Now, it's true we

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indicate on the plan that that is an
area that we sort of identified as tree

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preservation. Okay. Um, [clears throat]
however, um, with the location of where

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the house is likely to go, this is
mostly because of topography uh, and

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length of driveway. um and the grading
that have to do.

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We're not in favor of being restricted
to that 90 ft at the rear setback. Um

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something a little bit more reasonable.
Now, uh as a side note,

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but I think that per the ordinance rear
yard setback is 25 ft. Am I right about

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that?
Yeah. So what's being recommended is it

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increase to that rear setback from 25 to
90. At 90 is just going to hamstring a

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bit too much of um the area where the
house can go and the applicant like a

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little more flexibility with that. So as
a compromise what we're suggesting is a

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60 foot rear step back in that area. So
going from 25 to 60 increasing that

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minimum rear step back to 60 rather than
going at full 90. Again, the topography

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of the area, the rating that may be
necessary, the likelihood of the house

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placement there really works a lot
better. As a side note with that too,

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again, if my assumption is right that it
was to be consistent with what the tree

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preservation is, um,
note that the tree preservation isn't

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limited to just where that is, right? So
on the north and south of the house and

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all the way up to the road will be a
heavy heavy canopy of trees, right? The

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house will be nestled amongst it, right?
So if you just simply look at the image,

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it may look as though trees stop here,
but everything else is clearcut to the

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rope. That's not the case. So I manage
that that would have that if you wanted

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to see it, but just understand that that
we're proposing a compromise of 60 ft

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rather than that 90, which is a little
bit too far um from where the the

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applicant be comfortable that they can
find the appropriate place for the

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house.

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Um

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there's there's a note in the uh the
staff report regarding the broker

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commission um potentially adding in the
lane. Um there's a little bit of

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confusing language there. We're
certainly willing to discuss it a little

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further, but I think the context was,
you know, um, yes, there is technically

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this requirement that dedicated open
space be adjacent to a public right of

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way, but I think we all sat in this uh
room last month and determined, well, it

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wouldn't really make sense to try to
have open

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cut space adjacent to the road. What we
like there is to have a tree canopy

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that's there preserving that tree
canopy. So wanted to discuss that a

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little bit further, but just wanted to
call attention to and I have some images

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of that as well if we wanted to to talk
in detail about that.

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No problem.
>> Uh so the treement calculations is

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another thing

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that I wanted to make sure to discuss.
Um because it was called out in the

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staff report. Um and I just wanted to
give a little bit of background on it.

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Um you know we do know that the the
calculation that we did and this is

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shown on your L100 sheet. um that we
assign a 1,600 square foot um sort of

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per tree canopy in our calculation. Now,
how we came up with that is um that is a

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standard that is used in several not
many other municipalities um

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specifically like city records. Um they
use that that calculation

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um you know I believe it also had been
discussed in the tree preservation

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subgroup as well. Um, you know, we feel
like that is a very reasonable size

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because it is almost industry standard
for

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us
as noted in the in the report. Uh, that

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represents a 45 foot diameter tree. Now,
what you'll notice uh in the um

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the 20-year plan we showed you, many of
our trees are shown in that 30 45 foot

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diameter tree range. So, we feel like um
that calculation is reasonable. Um, note

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too that even at that 1,600 square foot
calculation, that ends up with a

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requirement of 26 trees to be placed on
the site placement when you apply the

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25% that 1600 square foot.
Be careful about doing math in public,

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but basically results in a requirement
of 26 trees. That's

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we're proposing 35 trees. Okay. So,
we're proposing well over what that

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minimum requirement is for tree
replacement. I think when you look at

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the uh landscape plan, we were very
strate strategic on where they're

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placed. Our emphasis was on tree
preservation at every possible location

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that we could. and we think we've come
up with a um a good quality reasonable

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plan for tree preservation, open space
usage and tree replacement. Um so again,

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you know, we I can I can discuss that a
little bit further um if you guys would

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like to do so as well. Um but but we
understood and I think we heard it um

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very specifically from some members is
not quite so concerned about um

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calculating a percentage as much as does
this make sense? Does this look good? Is

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this a reasonable play? And we think so
that it is.

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Um there were there were kind of three
kind of key items that um you know were

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were discussed in some detail towards
the end of last meeting uh even to the

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point where we wanted to ensure that we
heard it correctly and we sort of pulled

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each member and I just want to go
through each one of those because this

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is what we heard and this is sort of
responded accordingly with our site

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language.

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» First off is uh is the bike pack. Okay.
So there was discussion centered around

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a a bike path or take a long butternut.
Um we know that that would impact trees

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in that area and the whole discussion we
had last what we had heard and and what

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we noticed uh from the uh the minutes
that we read is that bike path had

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support of one member and was not
supported by five members of the

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planning commission and one planning
commission.

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So you'll notice that we did not include
the bike path on that. The other one was

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the idea that there should be a a
permanent easement for the internal um

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walking path within the site. Um that
was proposed. Um all members were on

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board. So you see on the plan now that
there's an easement for that path there.

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And then finally there was a bit of
discussion regarding that path and what

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material it should be made out of. Um
and it it really kind of fell into three

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categories of that. Right? So should it
be natural? Should it be paved with

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concrete or should it be some other
material? Third one would be other

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right. Uh we didn't hear any members say
that they thought it should be paved. Um

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we had discussed sort of the pros and
cons of um paving it and I think that it

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was clear that the cons um elevate the
pros

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the natural path. So talking natural um
it proposed like a a mulch path. Um

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someone even mentioned just straight
dirt path. Um but we think a mulch path

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would be nice that seemed to have a
support of five members. uh and then two

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00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:56,960
discuss you know maybe there's an
alternative

216
00:22:53,120 --> 00:23:02,720
so so what we reflected in the plan is
what we understood maturity plant

217
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:10,080
natural
that had the lead on the trees um it

218
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:14,799
gives the opportunity to I'll just say
work with the land right where we

219
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:19,840
meander it how we want to um we can
avoid um you know

220
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:25,280
some of the more we'll say important
trees or root systems that we discover

221
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:30,720
as we uh as it's being installed. It's
the least impactful um but yet still

222
00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:39,720
something of quality and something that
you see very often. Uh so so what you

223
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,720
see in the plant is a is a mulch path.

224
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:47,440
Finally, um there's a note about
dewatering and the language in the

225
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:53,760
review and actually the language that
made it into the proposed resolution um

226
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:58,640
is quite familiar. Um it looks as though
it was taken directly from another

227
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:04,559
project that some of us might remember.
Um and that's understandable. We get it.

228
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:09,520
We understand. Um there are some key
differences though in this project with

229
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:14,320
the the other project that that is
implemented.

230
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:19,919
First and foremost the other project um
had a full storm water pond right an

231
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:25,440
actual wet pond that was digging into
the water table

232
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:30,880
that there was a bit of demonstrated
impact on neighboring properties. That's

233
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:37,200
not the case here. we have a dry basin
um and so uh that that basin will

234
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:43,600
obviously I guess be out of the water
table right so um the construction of

235
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:48,640
that sorry the construction of the basin
the dry basin

236
00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:53,840
shouldn't require any dewatering
furthermore um the sanitary sewer the

237
00:24:51,200 --> 00:25:00,559
invert is about 2 feet above where the
water table is even um consulted a

238
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:05,200
an excavator that we've worked with in
the past and discussed the fact that hey

239
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:08,960
we have sanitary sewer its about two
feet above where the water table is in

240
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,400
your experience would you have to
dewater in that case and the answer is

241
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:19,760
no.
So our recommendation is that it's

242
00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:24,480
unnecessary for dewatering language to
the resolution.

243
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:30,000
um willing to discuss that further but
uh but you know if there is no

244
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:35,159
dewatering um it doesn't seem necessary
to place the the restricted language

245
00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:35,159
that

246
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:44,880
so with that we're here to answer
questions appreciate all the feedback

247
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:48,360
that we got we listened and
look forward to

248
00:25:50,320 --> 00:26:01,000
Um I as far as touch I'm not I'm not the
title we talked about the educator

249
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,799
thank you not

250
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,679
experts in that field

251
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:20,320
engineering folks water resources
believe that's what isn't

252
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:25,279
that's reason
I do want to there are a number of

253
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:30,000
things even with changes we talking I
don't think there well I will say there

254
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:36,000
are a lot but I'll address the I'm going
to open it up and I have to sorry

255
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:42,720
commissioners for further discussion but
I do have to get closer but sorry

256
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:46,799
my own so [clears throat] one of the
things we did after we had the

257
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:52,480
conversation about
pattern boy is had discussion with the

258
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:56,000
parks folks and we talked about that
with them about all the different

259
00:26:54,159 --> 00:27:00,559
substrates
that and the recommendation that came

260
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:07,919
back was that mulch is actually one of
the most to be uh for a variety of

261
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:13,360
reasons. I think the direction we got
was that either a paved path or using

262
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:18,960
essentially a gravel type path would be
easier to maintain

263
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:23,440
mulch. Mulch is going to leave.
It is something that can be easily added

264
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:27,520
but it also goes in other places that
don't necessarily

265
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:33,200
it would look like a more natural path
but that's one of the reasons that we

266
00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:39,039
video shoots. Now this is me right? We
have we're an independent panel as you

267
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:46,240
know. Um everybody may not agree but
that was the rationale for my

268
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:52,480
got some additional comments coming.
Um, I've got a number of other comments,

269
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:55,640
but with that opening
the conversation

270
00:27:56,399 --> 00:27:59,399
number,

271
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:10,240
um, prior to getting discussion, um, I
would be interested in seeing the

272
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:14,799
revised drawings um, that you referenced
so that I can compare them to what was

273
00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:18,840
included.
>> Yeah.

274
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:18,840
that were

275
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,360
» 20 years.

276
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:33,279
» Yeah. So, um came up with some imagery
that just shows further growth of the

277
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:41,279
trees. Again, the ones that are showing
on your L100 plan are now day one. Um

278
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:48,760
but there could be a little bit further
grow them. So I can hand you pass

279
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,760
around.

280
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:04,159
One of them is colored up nicely.
>> That's always

281
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:08,080
the other one is just black and white.
So these will be the same and I'll start

282
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:11,080
it either end you guys.
Appreciate

283
00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:34,919
years

284
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:49,799
more or less maybe not to the day but
yeah the idea is the should grow to

285
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:49,799
about that based on material source

286
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,840
» we have landscape architects

287
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:07,840
» yeah you'll see it's not
but there is a slight difference so we

288
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:12,799
attempted to depict that
>> I think is better

289
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,799
because they would
categicize

290
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:29,039
that some of them growing into buildings
and growing into each other road you

291
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:34,640
know obviously there's maintenance that
needs to happen right some of it can be

292
00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:38,120
over top so you know
it's our best

293
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:48,799
And then
we were question

294
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:52,799
the inner lines on this revised drawing
reflect what was

295
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:57,320
» Yeah, I just overlaid it on the top.
>> Perfect. Very good. Thank you.

296
00:31:07,679 --> 00:31:15,760
I'll throw one more thing out. Um you
referenced the 90%

297
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:19,679
lot.
Um I think the rationale you hit the

298
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:24,240
nail on the head. This is one of the
concerns that I think we discussed in

299
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,679
the last meeting which is is that lot is
developed.

300
00:31:25,919 --> 00:31:33,200
Are we going to be able to maintain that
because you're I know you're calculating

301
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:39,679
uh part of the the tree can is that
because it is part of the development is

302
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:43,600
that the trees that are in that far.
So if that's the case, we want to make

303
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,240
sure those are maintained because it is
partic

304
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,919
for sure. Um so again, a couple things
on that. We can simply modify that

305
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:56,559
drawing and keep those trees that would
be surrounding that area and we probably

306
00:31:54,480 --> 00:32:00,640
end up with greater amount of trees that
would have lost. Also, um if you're

307
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:06,240
looking at it from a strictly numbered
standpoint, what you see um and it

308
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:15,120
should be noted on the plan set in the
tree preservation area is 1.26 26 acres.

309
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:21,440
If we were to reduce that to uh
the 60 rather than the 90,

310
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:28,960
it would be 1.2 acres. So, we're talking
a net loss of 006 acres of trees. Just

311
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:35,799
looking at the plan set again, there's
quite a few more trees. In fact, I mean,

312
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:35,799
might as well just, you know, help.

313
00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:44,399
So, here's an image that I'm going to
show you um that would show a depiction

314
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:48,240
of a house being located um roughly at
that 60 foot setback. You'll notice on

315
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,399
the if you look at your tree
preservation sheet, right? There's a

316
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:57,519
hatched line that shows what we're
counting as trees preservation. Well,

317
00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:01,279
I've added in the other areas that would
be preserved as trees. We don't know

318
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:06,880
exactly where it's going to be, but this
image that I'm about to pass around will

319
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:11,640
indicate areas that trees will be
preserved in a typical plan.

320
00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:19,519
Again, none of this is counted in a tree
presentation right now. Those are trees

321
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:23,519
that will be preserved. We just don't
show it on the plan right now. We could

322
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,720
» and it would be greater than what you
show, but we just don't know.

323
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:33,360
Will this house move over to here and
then is it right? So we we had kept it

324
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:39,200
to here before and actually the train
reservation was here move back to here

325
00:33:36,159 --> 00:33:43,679
6. So I think you understand the idea.
>> Yeah. No, that's helpful. We It's hard

326
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:46,320
to evaluate what we're doing.
>> Yeah.

327
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:51,279
» So that's helpful. Another way to put it
is if we were to revise the the tree

328
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:59,159
preservation exhibit to include that, we
would actually go up from what we have

329
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,159
now and still at the 60 ft.

330
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:16,399
» Mr. Chair, may I ask a question please?
The 1.26 We can acres trees preserve

331
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:18,240
include the trees that be planted.
Correct.

332
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:24,159
» Right.
>> There's an exhibit. Um the best do is

333
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:32,240
look at that was a specific exhibit
requested and yeah. So that that's so

334
00:34:28,399 --> 00:34:37,599
it's 1.26 plus one year coverage.
>> That's correct. Um the

335
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:40,599
city
>> 35

336
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:51,760
I have done the calculation with the 20
years on those three species took about

337
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:56,720
10 minutes.
Um

338
00:34:53,839 --> 00:35:04,240
those trees in 20 years should give you
about 0.58 acres of tree canopy. Okay,

339
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:09,520
plus or minus. I mean, they're all in a
range, but this these are 2 and a half

340
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:14,160
inch PBH trees in full sun in Michigan
zone six. Those three species

341
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:19,839
specifically
give you a range of where I end up and I

342
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:23,760
took number in the middle. So, 1.26 26
acres of trees being preserved plus the

343
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:29,359
additional.58
acres from those trees planted in 20

344
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:33,960
years should give you 31%
coverage on this 5.9 acres.

345
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:39,160
So I
see

346
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,560
» I've already got

347
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,560
» Thanks.
That's that's very helpful. I think we

348
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:57,839
were we were startling a little bit
because we thrown around that average

349
00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:03,200
reposition. We heard that 1600 square
foot piece. That's a very large, very

350
00:36:01,359 --> 00:36:07,440
healthy, very mature, probably one of
the larger trees.

351
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:11,440
So, we want to make sure that 20 years
gives us a good range and good

352
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:15,200
expectations what that's going to look
like. Now, we hope that we'll all be

353
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:20,839
here in 20 years to be able to validate
that. But at least folks that enjoy that

354
00:36:17,839 --> 00:36:20,839
neighborhood

355
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:41,720
are some of our preferred species.
Nothing.

356
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:41,720
» Yes. So they're their their

357
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:51,520
two that will go up high and red bug
will spread an umbrella,

358
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:59,599
» but it won't go as high
and uh they're going to be pretty.

359
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:03,520
» Just as a quick sidebar to our resident
probably

360
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:08,079
a lot of these, we're also working on a
tree preservation

361
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:13,359
right now updating our current So we do
spend a lot more time have spent a lot

362
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:18,160
more time talking about trees species
invasive species which you want to

363
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:22,280
avoid. So this might not seem like a
typical meeting

364
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,000
especially
>> Mr.

365
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:37,359
um whatever you decide about size and
the location and all of those things

366
00:37:35,839 --> 00:37:43,200
possibility in there which is helpful
since we're need to look at that rewrite

367
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:47,200
coordinates um but the notes that are on
the map showing the tree preservation

368
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,119
area
not like plus or minus whatever you

369
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:54,880
decide should be reflected on the map we
haven't had there aren't a lot of your

370
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:59,680
neighbors to this uh so I don't know as
many comments as we do sometimes but I

371
00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:04,880
and others on staff have been Mr.
Measure making sure that this is exactly

372
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:08,920
where it should be. So we need to make
sure that we got

373
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:22,351
questions discussion points.
>> Can I go to the

374
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:26,079
» Can you go to the
[laughter]

375
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:33,320
» I'm one of the ones that does not want
David. Okay. might be the only one that

376
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,320
um

377
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:45,760
uh
I look at this path as being a bike

378
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:49,599
usage, a paved path is for
it's for parks where people pound up and

379
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:55,839
down.
But I do have one significant concern

380
00:38:52,720 --> 00:39:00,880
about this path and the route it's on.
And well, I'll just say uh about halfway

381
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:09,680
between
the condos and the zone there is an 8

382
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:18,720
foot elevation change that happens right
now like this. Um that that path crosses

383
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:23,760
on its way towards 46.
It's not

384
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:30,400
it's it's it's
very similar to the to the slope on the

385
00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:34,560
back side of the 146
that boat in line.

386
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:40,560
Um
>> Oh yeah, it gets better for sure.

387
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:47,280
» Yes. So, I I I think we need to address
some sort of timbered steps uh that are

388
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:52,000
anchored in the ground that that will
get people up and get people down.

389
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:55,119
Otherwise,
sort of a path will end here and then

390
00:39:53,599 --> 00:40:00,880
there'll be another path that starts up
there and you'll comfortably be able to

391
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,800
get the bottom to the top or back the
other way.

392
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,760
» Yeah, we wouldn't do that. I mean, one
of the advantages I think about most

393
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:12,400
natural path is you have the ability to
sort of sweep it, make more turns, so

394
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:18,720
you can kind of meander your way up that
hill. Um, now it's in that area. And do

395
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:24,560
we have enough room? I don't know.
>> Um,

396
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:30,640
it would build it's in the building
of that.

397
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:35,880
Well, you know, as as far as as far as
if you look at when we have 100.

398
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:44,640
» Yeah,
it it will be steep. No doubt.

399
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:50,320
A couple things. Number one, we didn't
see any other reasonable place to put

400
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:56,560
it. Um two, could we meander it a little
bit if we did a natural path? Yes. Um is

401
00:40:53,920 --> 00:41:01,920
that going to be enough to avoid maybe a
few um put some timbers in or steps or

402
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:07,920
something? Maybe not. we we may have to
do that. Um but you know I don't think

403
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:11,440
that that's anything that
afraid to do.

404
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:16,480
» I just want to address have have it be
our concern your concern that that

405
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:21,119
that's a very steep slope.
>> It is very steep slope.

406
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:24,640
» It is part of the path that needs to be
not accessible but climbable and

407
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,599
desensible.
>> For sure. Yep. Um, so I think, you know,

408
00:41:27,839 --> 00:41:34,720
we can agree to if there needs to be
some timbers put in place, um, that's

409
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:38,880
something they'd be willing to do, but I
agree with you that, you know, certainly

410
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:43,280
consulting parks and rep makes sense. I
think they're used to heavy duty use,

411
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:49,040
right? They're used to the public just
accessing it um numerous times, all day,

412
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,640
every day has a little bit of a
different

413
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:58,079
pace than than what we're talking about
here.

414
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:03,079
So we'll take that.
I would love [clears throat] to see it

415
00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:03,079
one day

416
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:09,079
at the other endocation.

417
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:28,280
» Yes. And then there would be the
responsibility to

418
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:36,280
that's very common element to the
association. So responsive.

419
00:42:53,040 --> 00:43:04,560
Yeah, I would I would just I guess add
on that we would I would encourage uh

420
00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:09,200
strong consideration of putting way
because there's also

421
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:14,200
we want it to be usable. We want it to
be accessible. We suspect

422
00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:24,000
the part of our job is to think about
the future today. So I think

423
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:29,400
Dr. Far
I think you do want to make sure that

424
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:29,400
that's going to be something

425
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:46,440
else
any other feedback or comments or

426
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,440
questions or

427
00:43:48,720 --> 00:44:00,640
Mr. Chair, I uh there was a comment
not sure whether it was Mikas or yours

428
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:06,720
above what was the RCD perhaps adding
another lane out in front. There's

429
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:12,000
there's three today and you thought it
was a bad idea, but OCRC

430
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:19,119
talked about it.
If that happens, would that fourth lane

431
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:25,040
go on the school side
of maybe I'll ask an easier question and

432
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:32,160
this is for me too. the right of way
move the border of the right of way move

433
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:38,800
if it was put onto the
>> uh the right way line would only move if

434
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:43,040
a road commission decides that
sometimes they will ask for additional

435
00:44:40,319 --> 00:44:46,960
right when there's a developer
it's not something that they indicated

436
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:54,880
to me when we talked about it before but
it's possible that they could um when we

437
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:58,760
discussed they indicated that addition
on the development side.

438
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,800
So

439
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,920
certainly

440
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,280
by

441
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:24,400
it sounds like that might still be a for
discussion that's

442
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:32,760
There was a question about would

443
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:41,920
is there enough room in the riving way?
The question was did we have to pick out

444
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:47,839
trees? That was the question. So I went
out there and I started at the corner by

445
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:53,040
the blueberry farm and I walked out and
it and it's five paces in from the

446
00:45:51,359 --> 00:45:58,319
rightway
border and aren't

447
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:06,319
there aren't any more than 10 trees in
the whole length of of the property that

448
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:12,560
are in that in that five aces before the
heavy tree comes in. So my basic answer

449
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:17,440
to your question, I'm not sure if it was
your question or his question, but if

450
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:24,000
another lane goes in, if the right way
doesn't

451
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:28,319
not for tree there are there are you
might take out some nice trees, but

452
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:36,040
there's nice trees directly behind them.
So it just means you you have to manage

453
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:36,040
that no couple.

454
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,880
» Yeah. And one of the things just keep in
mind.

455
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:56,280
» Yeah. And
so

456
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,280
should be fine.

457
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,440
» It should be.

458
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:12,960
I'm just afraid that they put the
additional way

459
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:18,280
because there's already an additional.
>> Yeah. on the side.

460
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,280
» Oh yeah,

461
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:36,480
» we struggle to see how work right with
the configuration of how lanes are right

462
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:40,319
now. Can't imag can't imagine a design
batting of a lane. You just can't our

463
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,680
engineers can't quite wrap their head
around it. But regardless, it's not our

464
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:46,640
deal. It's the road Christian. If
they're going to do it, they're going to

465
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:51,359
do it. Doesn't matter what we say in
this room right now.

466
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:57,440
» To add it on the development side means
they're going to take the middle line as

467
00:47:53,839 --> 00:48:03,880
it comes down the road.
>> We can't imagine how

468
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,880
to

469
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:12,880
comfortable. I I'm I'm comfortable that
anything that has to come out of the

470
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:18,160
current right of way won't hurt our
presation.

471
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:23,880
That's important
because I was worried about trees that

472
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:23,880
might have to come out

473
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,400
that are in better shape than our

474
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:41,000
This is just something we don't know.
doesn't sound like perhaps it's going to

475
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:41,000
happen but still good. Um

476
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:52,160
I don't know this one but any Whoops. I
think we are really decision on that.

477
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:59,599
Let's jump back for a second. Um, sounds
like we got a recommendation for either

478
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:07,000
semi-p permeable or soft
for parts. Sounds like that might that

479
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:07,000
may not be the most desirable option.

480
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:13,720
I know we did this last meeting.

481
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:28,960
some stuff out there kind of materials
in general. So is very accessible

482
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:33,599
might feel that too much now. Um we do
as the township um we deal with

483
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:37,920
developments that are 100 years old that
are 15 years old and so establishing

484
00:49:35,359 --> 00:49:42,559
that right that's a good thing. um chips
and pines which is kind of that little

485
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:45,839
gravel stuff um is kind of the next step
down and that's actually probably what I

486
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,119
would recommend for this and you know
you may decide that that's too much and

487
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:52,800
that's and that's fine but that's a it's
a permutable surface it protects the

488
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:56,040
roots it's considered accessible you can
argue about

489
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:09,119
the mulch and the dirt leaves the roots
exposed and the mulch um it is a shaking

490
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:14,160
surface require a lot.
So those are that's kind of the summary

491
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:18,319
of what we received as far as different
pathways.

492
00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:22,400
» Thanks for the clarification chips and
vines.

493
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:30,359
» Yeah, we have two types of gravel. We
have pines which are pathways and then

494
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:30,359
some of the gravel out there is that

495
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,680
gravel for this.

496
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:40,400
Okay,
>> question for the chips. Is there more

497
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:44,559
ground preparation for lay down the
surface or

498
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:50,720
» I think so. Um certainly the recommended
mulch, right? So there's there is a

499
00:50:47,839 --> 00:50:55,119
slight concern less so than with
pavement but with the chips and fine you

500
00:50:52,960 --> 00:51:00,559
do need to prep that surface a bit more,
right? Got to scrape that top layer soil

501
00:50:58,319 --> 00:51:04,119
compaction that sort of thing. So it has
the potential to

502
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:12,359
Okay. Any other questions that pass
before we can really quickly

503
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,040
» start?

504
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:38,000
I would be fine with it, but I think the
chips and pines um after the discussion

505
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:41,760
about slope on there will help stabilize
that a little bit more. I'm pretty sure

506
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:45,200
that's pretty sandy soil out there. So
she's gonna be shel

507
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,040
Thank you.

508
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:07,640
It sounds like the hill and getting a
true.

509
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:20,240
» Yeah, the easement is 30.

510
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:32,200
So yeah, you know
something.

511
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:44,079
» Well, I'm still a mulch guy except for
if you have to put steps in anywhere

512
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:50,480
along that way. I would use chips and
client just

513
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:56,119
» chips and chips and
>> well I can take a formal roll call but I

514
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:56,119
think

515
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,520
people that

516
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:09,000
I guess we're good at that point we had
I think 42

517
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:13,680
for the chips and as

518
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:22,559
I usually consider myself a tiger.
All right. Um, anybody else have

519
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:26,119
anything else? I think we've covered
most of the things

520
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,920
once everyone has gone through.

521
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:46,079
» Great. Thank you. Um
asked a question about buffers

522
00:53:43,359 --> 00:53:49,880
sort of at the edges
on the north and south

523
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,520
that that question hasn't been answered
or

524
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:02,400
» no we haven't discussed that yet. Um,
and so the reason why I brought this up,

525
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:06,079
this was the page in your your kind of
the areas where it's the reason why I

526
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:11,359
wanted to bring back to you. This is
development that

527
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:15,800
years ago when it was constructed, not a
whole lot of joy over how

528
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:25,200
plant look like you're going to have
some pretty there practice. And most of

529
00:54:23,839 --> 00:54:30,800
the trees that were in that area had
some very damaged do very well. Still

530
00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:34,720
had what looked like a good paper. It
didn't turn out quite as well. So I just

531
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:38,599
wanted you to take a second look at that
to make sure y

532
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:49,559
the area. She left parties alive.
Here's

533
00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:57,559
the problem is one of the things we know
there is a lot of tendencies

534
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:21,960
through there.
It might make sense just because you

535
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,079
have you have this piece

536
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:43,040
again. We don't want this is a trade.
They don't retreat but there's

537
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:46,040
abody
else.

538
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:57,599
» The only place in this diagram that I
saw is

539
00:56:53,599 --> 00:57:00,799
uh is C area C.
>> No, no, that's the property line.

540
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:05,359
» Yeah,
>> that's outside behind the

541
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:10,079
store. First of all, I want to say I'm
very excited that planting wildflower

542
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:16,720
seeds in both of these basins.
>> You are going to be demonstrating to the

543
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:20,559
uh retention basin across the road by
the soccer pitch

544
00:57:18,319 --> 00:57:27,920
» full of pipe racks
what things could look like. So, thank

545
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:31,680
you. Um, but see, I'm you know, it's
going to be it's supposed to be a water

546
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:39,520
collection area. It's going to get
swampy and then the property line there.

547
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:48,760
I'm just wondering if we wanted to put
in some ary or something that can have

548
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:48,760
wet feet and still thrive.

549
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:58,319
Hey, this is this is this is a
development property line. This is the

550
00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:03,200
association
goes to here and that beyond. I don't

551
00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:06,559
know. It's
I don't know. I don't know what it looks

552
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:13,280
on the other side of the property. It's
more is it the same elevation as where

553
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:20,720
that swale is going to be?
>> Uh well on the on the south side of that

554
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:25,760
property line is trees or heavy trees.
>> Is it the same elevation as the swale?

555
00:58:23,119 --> 00:58:30,160
Well, no. The swale down
>> down but but it's not going to the swale

556
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:37,799
is the swale elevation is not going to
cross the property. No, no. The intent

557
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:37,799
of that right is to capture all

558
00:58:42,799 --> 00:58:49,280
same thing with the area. I guess I'll
point out

559
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:53,040
part of our storm water management
system. There is a swale that runs back

560
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:56,559
in there. We're awfully tight back in
there. So, we've done our best to

561
00:58:54,640 --> 00:59:00,559
preserve any of the trees right up at
that property line. Do need to fit a

562
00:58:58,799 --> 00:59:08,240
swale in there. So sort of better
balance here

563
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:13,520
whale warm water with water management
and keep as many trees as we can. So

564
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:17,040
anything that we don't um right out or
that swale we're just keeping those

565
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:22,359
trees that are there. So you see in that
area it's

566
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:22,359
very exciting.

567
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:34,319
All right.
Do we want to

568
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:38,839
any any other areas we got covered?
So with C that

569
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,440
work

570
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:11,680
Yeah, you were you were over there
today. Uh curious

571
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:16,920
pretty. Yeah, I I was again with the
caveat that when you set the line

572
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:25,599
equipment across to protect tree that
needs to be finally protected because it

573
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:32,480
isn't I mean it isn't deep but there's
enough if you don't start nibbling it

574
01:00:28,319 --> 01:00:36,359
away on the other side of
protected tree area.

575
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:47,799
BC.
How about section?

576
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:57,079
We feel that there's definitely got
enough there to be prevent

577
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:04,359
access to people.
And it'll start

578
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,680
to

579
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,040
obviously

580
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:35,319
visualize exactly which of those trees
are. Um so to the test of the available

581
01:01:32,319 --> 01:01:35,319
information.

582
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,640
» Okay.

583
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:52,200
» All right. Thank you. With that, let's
do standards or do you want to just kind

584
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,200
of

585
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,640
kind of list

586
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:07,359
some of the standards?
>> We'll go through the

587
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,799
» um one of the things that Chuck had
mentioned

588
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:16,400
and I would suggest I'm a little bit
uncomfortable with just saying

589
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:24,240
that out. Um he's right to thinking of
where the sewer line is to put in

590
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:30,960
that it's going to um reminder for
especially newer people that the reason

591
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:36,440
why looking so closely at water
is that crops are very very very

592
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:50,400
crop yield and it can it can kill
We want to be really careful about that

593
01:02:46,319 --> 01:02:57,680
so we don't damage someone's props.
Um I would suggest that we include a

594
01:02:53,599 --> 01:03:03,440
clause in resolution
document that says that can be waved by

595
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:08,960
restriction can be by consumer if they
don't find that. So if it looks like

596
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:16,760
it's it's a far enough distance away and
death isn't

597
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:16,760
that growing that we can get rid of it.

598
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:43,280
Um this talked about this on the psychic
condo uh location um and question and

599
01:03:40,319 --> 01:03:49,720
and comment on that. So I had mentioned
before whatever the treaty preservation

600
01:03:45,359 --> 01:03:49,720
area is to be

601
01:03:51,680 --> 01:04:00,720
um because that is a firm line. Um so
their request is 60 ft. Um 90 ft is

602
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:05,079
accepted the measurement based on what I
measure the drawing for current

603
01:04:10,319 --> 01:04:22,200
established. you want to allow for that
60 ft um with a change in dry

604
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,200
preservation per

605
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:40,559
» so the side yes so you talk about that
too so this was determined the north

606
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:45,079
being 30 or being the standard 10 the
south being the proposed 30.

607
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:08,559
» Well, may I clarify? No. So the
sideyards of that single family home are

608
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:13,039
not currently calculated in the open
space with the tree preservation.

609
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:17,280
The image that I showed you wasn't
necessarily to indicate that we're going

610
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:21,760
to include those areas in the tree
preservation because we don't know where

611
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:26,960
that house is actually it might move up
here which means it would you know you

612
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:31,839
have further uh tree preservation on one
side or another because to me's point

613
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:37,359
it's fairly specific where it's at. What
we're proposing is that tree

614
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:41,039
preservation stop vertically at 60 ft.
The purpose of the image that you saw

615
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:45,920
was just to depict that there will be
more tree preservation. And I think this

616
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:50,960
goes without saying that similar to uh
you know the other um the three homes

617
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,520
that are not included in this PV.
They're not just going to clear cut

618
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:56,720
their block because there's no tree
preservation ordinance there. They're

619
01:05:55,359 --> 01:05:58,960
going to nestle their house in there.
They're going to have a driveway and

620
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,359
then they're going to keep the rest of
the trees. So my point is there will be

621
01:06:01,359 --> 01:06:08,960
significantly more tree preservation.
This is just bare minimum that we're

622
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:14,400
getting to the 31% that we had talked.
So our recommendation is to stop it at

623
01:06:11,839 --> 01:06:20,640
60 ft, right? Whereas the minimum right
now is 25. What's recommended is 90.

624
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:25,039
We're trying to meet say in the middle
and say more reasonable is 60. That

625
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:28,799
allows for a house to be built but it
will be amongst the cluster trees.

626
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:35,680
» May I ask a question?
>> Sure. I know you're saying there may be

627
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:41,920
um a need for the site to adjust. Um do
you have a ballpark of how far in either

628
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:49,839
direction that may be? And would you be
able to identify an updated area to at

629
01:06:45,839 --> 01:06:55,119
least include along those edges? um even
if it ends up still being smaller than

630
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:59,280
the trees that end up being preserved,
but something that could be as a a

631
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:03,640
tradeoff to that setback that would
still be included efficiently.

632
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:09,520
» I don't know how difficult it is to
estimate.

633
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:15,359
» Again, I don't know. But the one thing I
can tell you, as far north as it goes,

634
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:20,480
you're preserving an equal amount at the
south side and vice versa. Right? if you

635
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:24,799
get nudge down, you're preserving more
trees than it weren't. So, it sort of

636
01:07:22,319 --> 01:07:30,480
equals out either way. I don't know if
that answers your question, but

637
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:33,760
I don't know how much it would move, but
regardless, it moves 10 feet north,

638
01:07:32,079 --> 01:07:39,960
you're saving 10 feet more trees up
south. It moves 15 feet south, you're

639
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,960
saving 15 feet tree.

640
01:07:40,559 --> 01:07:49,599
um
going through these exercises

641
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:54,160
um the unfortunate part if it's not in
the plan and it's not in the drawing

642
01:07:52,240 --> 01:08:00,400
then
it's not efficient and I appreciate the

643
01:07:57,039 --> 01:08:06,559
the good faith effort um with the
personally the effort um and evaluation

644
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:09,200
that we
the

645
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:25,759
um specific
preservation,

646
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:30,080
» but I would be okay with the proposed 60
setback if we've got

647
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:36,359
» maybe one of the things that we could do
is we can include the setbacks

648
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:36,359
themselves as tree presentation.

649
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:47,560
If you want it indicated on the plan, by
all means, we can indicate those those

650
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,560
setbacks areas as tree.

651
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:52,799
» Yep.
Thank you.

652
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:58,159
» So that the reard setback would align
with the tree preservation boundary

653
01:08:55,279 --> 01:09:02,400
being 60 ft on the west side and then
the tree preservation boundary would

654
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:07,759
also include that north side set back of
20 ft south.

655
01:09:05,440 --> 01:09:12,719
That sounds
correct. I think I think the

656
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:17,159
understanding is probably
that presentation area.

657
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:26,839
All this is

658
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:38,920
just like a

659
01:09:40,799 --> 01:09:43,799
number.

660
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:03,800
I didn't mention the specific
requirements as far as treatment.

661
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:14,600
replanting as
watering conditions. I want you to know

662
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,600
that

663
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:22,679
» I think we talked about

664
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:34,800
so with that
amendments. Now we want to go through

665
01:10:32,719 --> 01:10:42,320
the uh go through the standard.
>> Yeah, go through the standards. Um what

666
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:48,320
I had so two choices um you could ask
them to come back with plan to see um

667
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:54,679
the revision any changes to the
resolution. I think I think the only

668
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,679
change res

669
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:07,800
and then I think we want to
show

670
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:11,239
that

671
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:16,040
I think those are the three changes that

672
01:11:16,239 --> 01:11:25,920
» so your option would be um to say very
specifically recommend this resolution

673
01:11:22,719 --> 01:11:33,760
and report with those changes in site
plan. um or uh I would go back so you

674
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:38,320
could take a look at them
kind of on the line. I think it would be

675
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:44,080
okay to send this way. Um but it is kind
of on the line where it's not just one

676
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:48,040
thing it's so that's
>> there would be time to revisit

677
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:58,000
» right and this is because this is a
final actually I'll have to look at see

678
01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:58,000
how it falls this will

679
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:11,480
There's a little I can check and see.

680
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:19,320
Pushing it too close, but those are the
big options. It won't have this.

681
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:25,800
» I think we have

682
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:31,000
I would like to have

683
01:12:31,679 --> 01:12:34,679
that

684
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:41,880
ready to go. We're not going to be able
to

685
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:56,320
» Okay. Well, you're on the board, so
we've seen this a couple of times. I

686
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:56,320
think as long as

687
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:13,320
I can go

688
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:20,920
a nice
taking our input

689
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:32,360
various things always discuss.
It sounds like we're at a point. Let's

690
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:32,360
go through

691
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:50,040
your
scans.

692
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:18,159
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm
>> okay. So,

693
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:23,040
all right. So I'll roll through
uh PUB standards of approval. Number

694
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:28,640
one, the community will
substantial benefit users of the project

695
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:35,600
and a benefit that would otherwise be
unfeasible or unlikely to achieve

696
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:41,719
development. Uh my other recently
approved developments

697
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,719
provides housing

698
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:55,040
page 12
will not result a significant increase

699
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:59,120
in public services and facilities and
places

700
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:02,480
upon surrounding lands or the natural
environment

701
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:07,080
ultimate adverse effects. faculty
provided

702
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,080
by

703
01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:11,560
P is not expected to

704
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,960
facilities

705
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:26,120
that
being added

706
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:32,000
PV will be generally compatible with the
master plan and consistent death and

707
01:15:30,719 --> 01:15:37,920
objective
This chapter 38 article division 8

708
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:41,760
chapter PUB aligns with the master plan
goals for housing

709
01:15:40,239 --> 01:15:46,640
to
PUB will not result in significant

710
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:54,239
adverse effects
and compatible character surrounding

711
01:15:51,679 --> 01:15:59,760
proposed PUB is located across the high
street from large high school campus in

712
01:15:57,679 --> 01:16:02,480
alignment with zoning and future land
use plans.

713
01:16:00,719 --> 01:16:05,480
So is there pattern with the surrounding
area

714
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:10,920
for
this develop

715
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:18,280
water basin this property

716
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:26,960
number five
will protect all flood plans and wipes

717
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:32,640
filling except as approved for essential
services or recreation that means the

718
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:38,640
flood PL or wetlands are are on
approximate the site standard.

719
01:16:36,719 --> 01:16:44,159
Number six, the PV will preserve and
maintain mature wetlands, woodlands,

720
01:16:41,440 --> 01:16:48,239
fields, pastures and meadows and create
sufficient buffer

721
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:52,320
conflicts between residential and
agriculture.

722
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:57,719
a few areas of our woodlands are
preserved

723
01:16:54,719 --> 01:16:57,719
above

724
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:06,520
active agriculture
property and the dry store water is

725
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,520
nearest

726
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:13,320
will be introduced to the dry retention
pieces.

727
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:25,520
PUB will be seen if this is unblocked or
they are interrupted particularly in

728
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:30,480
seen from right away so far
practicable

729
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:34,199
there are notable scenic districts this
is parcel

730
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:52,520
your computer will protect your rural
character when

731
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,520
this is

732
01:17:55,120 --> 01:18:04,159
pedestrian walkways may be provided so
they easily site uh the applicant

733
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:10,040
pedestrian access between the
condominiums and street standard

734
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:20,960
the individual buildings, roadways and
open space are designed to identify as

735
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:23,960
features. There are untouched areas of
woodland

736
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,280
requirements.

737
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:40,440
The PV will be adequately deterred by
public utilities and services that fire

738
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:40,440
protection or public

739
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:55,159
services available in the current
services area

740
01:18:56,480 --> 01:19:03,239
should be in compliance with all the
federal state

741
01:19:00,239 --> 01:19:03,239
Township

742
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:08,040
is expected to be in compliance.

743
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:19,040
If the PUB is completed phases, the PUB
show each phase is complete in itself

744
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:22,800
services, facilities and open spaces so
that each phase contains all of the

745
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:27,280
features necessary to ensure the
protection of natural resources and the

746
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:30,840
health
users of

747
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,560
board be required

748
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:49,120
completed by occupancy numbering
units for non-residential uses. This is

749
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:52,120
intended to be a one single phase
project.

750
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,960
Thank you. That's it.

751
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:08,360
So, with that,
I think we're ready to uh have a motion

752
01:20:04,719 --> 01:20:08,360
to approve this.

753
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:17,199
» Second.
>> Okay,

754
01:20:15,440 --> 01:20:21,199
we have a motion in a second. All in
favor?

755
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:25,199
Any oppose?
All right.

756
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:31,960
Thank you.
Anybody

757
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,960
need a quick recess before?

758
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,440
We'll keep rolling

759
01:20:38,480 --> 01:20:41,640
to jump.

760
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:51,320
Let's uh give us a minute here to just
wrap up our last

761
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:13,480
I think it's Charles.

762
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,640
Yeah.

763
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:09,280
Thanks everyone for their patience. uh
this new city. This is how we are

764
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:15,560
and we we do appreciate y'all being here
and we also appreciate

765
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:15,560
this project.

766
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:28,040
So at this point
uh we are ready to

767
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,800
house. So

768
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,600
something

769
01:22:44,719 --> 01:22:47,719
different

770
01:22:55,360 --> 01:23:04,679
before we had a zoning board. So um
that's what is

771
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:04,679
also pretty substantial.

772
01:23:05,440 --> 01:23:13,440
So that's why um that's why
special use the application itself I'll

773
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:17,600
just very briefly go over it is for an
addition of a number of docs. Um it

774
01:23:16,159 --> 01:23:22,239
increases the number of docs pretty
substantially.

775
01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:28,480
It will be a is that some of the folks
that are currently in the parking lot to

776
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:33,719
the area will be some existing partners.
Um there there

777
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:41,400
for quite some time I think that's
probably what the conversation will and

778
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:41,400
should

779
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:54,040
not as far as things bring to the
discussion.

780
01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:54,040
There was one though there are different

781
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:05,120
clify that make sure that we're on the
same page. Um and the similarly the doc

782
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:10,560
area
changes all be on the same plan. So

783
01:24:07,199 --> 01:24:14,480
we're looking at at one set again just
to make sure that we're on the same page

784
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:20,000
for that.
We could suggest that

785
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:26,239
for
during the summer months um but think

786
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:32,600
that we're suggested that one of the
things

787
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,600
when it comes to the overall use of

788
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:40,679
there may be other things that come up
as well especially in public comment

789
01:24:37,679 --> 01:24:40,679
periods.

790
01:24:42,719 --> 01:24:50,800
» Great. things.
>> All right, with that we will uh go ahead

791
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:58,159
and open the public comment. I'm sorry,
the public hearing uh for the Mattow Bay

792
01:24:54,719 --> 01:25:02,320
Club plan. So, uh first of all, we need
a motion to go ahead and do a second.

793
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:06,159
» Second.
>> Okay. All in favor?

794
01:25:03,679 --> 01:25:11,040
» I
>> uh let's start. Let's see. Let's start

795
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:16,480
at 11 this side in the back. And if
you'd like to get up and see uh about

796
01:25:13,679 --> 01:25:24,600
the Magic Bay Young Club project, uh
please do sign in. Please let me

797
01:25:21,199 --> 01:25:24,600
go through that

798
01:25:30,639 --> 01:25:40,800
drive also
owner manager properties partners

799
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:44,000
here on behalf of all those things.
Um,

800
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:47,760
given the time for public comment, I
won't attempt to read the thesis I think

801
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:52,639
of earlier.
>> Thank you. Thank you.

802
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:56,800
» I did put a lot of time into it,
research into it. So, please take the

803
01:25:54,159 --> 01:26:01,199
time to read it, confirm the details,
follow up on any questions it leaves

804
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:05,440
with you. Park Township Park Township
has a great record system. You can find

805
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:10,159
additional info on the club's prior
applications.

806
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:15,920
I found that my mom was Park Township
Planning Commissioner in 1980 and was

807
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:20,400
welcomed for a three-year term.
Something I didn't mention was that I do

808
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:25,280
have great memories of hanging out and
racing to the O club. My dad was a

809
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:29,840
commodor there.
As a former member of WIC, I think the

810
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:32,800
SL proposal isn't good for the O club as
it ruined a couple of the best

811
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:37,760
attributes.
Water view and several races for both

812
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:44,239
children and adults will no longer start
and finish by see yes the members voted

813
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:48,880
to approve this but it was highly
contested and those that contested it

814
01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:54,400
probably won't be letting you know their
opinion as they don't want to be looked

815
01:26:51,440 --> 01:26:58,960
at as members that cause problems at the
club.

816
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:04,320
We've tried to help NBC with parking at
different times. About 10 years ago,

817
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:08,080
Commone approached me about it, hoping
to borrow some parking for their

818
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:14,639
employees. I found that I provide them
with parking spots in our unused parking

819
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:18,400
lot on 32nd Street. We gave that a try.
What happened was their employees

820
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:21,840
refused to park that far away, so it
didn't work out.

821
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:25,840
And now we use that parking lot for
trailers.

822
01:27:24,159 --> 01:27:31,360
I do need to remind you that the last
time WYC received approval from the

823
01:27:28,480 --> 01:27:35,199
planning commission to build for slips,
it was because planning commission

824
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:40,639
thought there would be a net gain of six
parking spots because they proposed

825
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:46,560
adding 10 parking spots. However, this
was a bait and switch type tactic.

826
01:27:44,719 --> 01:27:51,840
The result was overbuilding the property
by four or more boat slips because the

827
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:56,639
10 spots that were said to be new
parking spots weren't new at all. They

828
01:27:54,960 --> 01:28:02,080
just been parking spots used in the
grass for years, but they were not on a

829
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:07,199
previous approved site plan. So the
planning commission at that time treat

830
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:13,280
them as new parking spots and they had
been used for years prior because MBYC

831
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:15,679
has had a parking problem for a long
time.

832
01:28:17,199 --> 01:28:24,159
almost
new application is also a big switch or

833
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:27,280
shell game type of concept. Again,
they're saying they're making the

834
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:30,480
situation better by moving the small
boats that are in the parking spots on

835
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:35,360
the floating docks and then those
parking spots will now will now not be

836
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:39,600
available will now be available to cars.
Well, those spots should have been used

837
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:44,719
by cars anyways as they have a parking
problem and those are parking spots

838
01:28:42,719 --> 01:28:50,000
and that's what's causing this problem
that keeps it learning problem. Now, you

839
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:54,080
can't double dip on those spots and
count them a second time

840
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:58,639
as new parking just because you're
moving the boats up. If they want to fix

841
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:03,520
the problem, move the small boats in the
current parking lot to the new proposed

842
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:08,480
floating docks. Then use those parking
spots for the current uses that cause

843
01:29:06,159 --> 01:29:12,320
the parking problem, but don't add more
slips

844
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:15,960
to that situation.
>> Thanks.

845
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,960
» Y

846
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:40,480
Hi, I'm with mom and well also a big
neighbor of mag club. We surround him

847
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:45,360
many many sides. Um, I just read through
lots of ways research that he did in

848
01:29:42,719 --> 01:29:50,800
sending all of that letters and what
struck me is a very loss in continuity

849
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:55,360
and that's on both sides of the road.
Meattow has a change of board

850
01:29:52,800 --> 01:30:02,400
periodically, a change of commodors and
it's it's a very big turnover. Um, you

851
01:29:59,920 --> 01:30:06,960
as a planning commission have changed
over the years. Staff has probably

852
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:11,760
changed. So there's a lot of history but
not a lot of continuity. And as I read

853
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:17,760
some of these things, it kind of stands
out. I think when things are changing,

854
01:30:14,639 --> 01:30:22,320
we often forget the things we don't want
to do. And I think parking and being a

855
01:30:20,639 --> 01:30:27,120
parking police officer is something
nobody wants to do. You don't want to do

856
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:31,760
it. Um we don't count things. So I think
that we've had a lot of strange

857
01:30:29,679 --> 01:30:37,120
interpretation about the parking things
in our yard. I would invite you all to

858
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:41,520
come and stand on our parking lot. See
what looks like it's empty. You'll

859
01:30:38,719 --> 01:30:46,560
notice the condor does have one spot to
himself. And he doesn't use it very

860
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:52,560
often, but he does his part there. Um,
it does that that yacht club does all

861
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:57,760
many many things. It's it's boat slips.
It's two or three dining rooms. It's a

862
01:30:55,120 --> 01:31:02,719
pool with lots of chairs. It's outdoor
seating. And then, of course, we have

863
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:08,639
the um learning center for sailing. So
all these things are happening and many

864
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:14,960
are over laughing. Last night I drove by
when I went home was flying. It was a

865
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:21,600
Saturday Wednesday night race.
We are not in favor of the docks because

866
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:24,600
the parking is not available now. Thank
you.

867
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:44,520
name is Chris
2305.

868
01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:54,719
So, I want to speak more just from a
neighborly standpoint because not only

869
01:31:51,520 --> 01:32:01,280
do I work at our family business, um,
but I also live there, too. And so, I'm

870
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:06,719
well aware of the art club and Cummings
and going there. And so, it brings me no

871
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:11,040
pleasure tonight to speak out against
something that they want to do because

872
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:17,440
of all the wonderful facilities they
have and because of the sailing program

873
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:22,000
that they have. My hesitation is more
with what's already been talked about is

874
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:28,320
that with the parking and when it's
busy, it's hard to be a good a good

875
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:33,040
neighbor. When people are parked on our
property, on our grass, um, in our

876
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:39,600
parking lot that's meant for our
customers, when our grounds crew has to

877
01:32:36,719 --> 01:32:46,000
continually replace sprinkler heads. And
as my mother-in-law spoke of, we don't

878
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:51,600
enjoy being the parking police. Um, so
with that, I just ask you to think about

879
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:58,639
the change that happens when there's not
adequate parking. And if they increase

880
01:32:54,000 --> 01:33:04,000
their slips, where do all those cars go?
As a neighbor, we don't feel that we

881
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:08,800
should have to absorb or accommodate
their parking issues. And I'm not sure

882
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:17,000
like neighbors feel like at some point.
It's just too much traffic and too much

883
01:33:12,719 --> 01:33:17,000
overflow. Thank you.

884
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:29,960
» Thanks. You're okay.

885
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:37,080
I know you want to speak.

886
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:56,480
And the parking is the big issue. No
doubt.

887
01:33:54,239 --> 01:34:01,840
You know, it's not like you build a boat
slip and there's one extra car there. uh

888
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:06,800
on Wednesday night with the racing
there. There might be six or seven cars

889
01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:14,000
showing up with six or seven people to
crew on boat and uh you know it's just

890
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:20,400
it's just overcrowd when they're parked
on the lawn or parked on the street um

891
01:34:17,440 --> 01:34:25,120
and it's uh it's just not a healthy
situation.

892
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:29,199
The other issues Oh, but I I sent a
letter and I was told that it was

893
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:36,719
distributed to each of you. Yes. Thanks
for considering reading that. Thanks for

894
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:45,280
providing book u the character in the
neighborhood is at risk. [clears throat]

895
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:53,360
Um voting and environmental issues um
play into this as well. But I think that

896
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:59,520
um the yacht club can prosper
and do well with the existing slips that

897
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:04,159
is going out into the lake is is beyond
my imagination that the Army Corps could

898
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:11,600
prove that because it's just encroaching
on the shipping channel and you know

899
01:35:07,440 --> 01:35:16,760
that that's safety issue for sure. So uh
I hope you consider all these things and

900
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:16,760
thank you.

901
01:35:21,199 --> 01:35:29,639
Okay, we can our right, your left
start.

902
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:39,040
» Yeah, I can I get an opportunity to
speak that

903
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:44,239
section?
>> Uh, yes. Yeah, you'll have a chance to

904
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:50,639
present your as the applicant. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Public public hearings

905
01:35:46,159 --> 01:35:55,840
part is really for those who have a
basically just want to provide input on

906
01:35:52,560 --> 01:36:01,199
the project itself.
Just clarification that um if if it's

907
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:06,080
many individuals speaking in favor of
the project.

908
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:10,800
Yes. If you're just presenting this
project,

909
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:16,960
» right? So whoever whoever plans on being
the spokesperson for so like that would

910
01:36:13,679 --> 01:36:23,800
be have time to do that
but if you have others that are either

911
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:23,800
in favor or opposing time

912
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:28,600
to one speaker to

913
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:39,440
several of us are prepared to address
issues related to the application. I

914
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:42,440
just want to make sure that we don't
>> Sure.

915
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:50,400
» If if it's a team I I'm gonna ask your
guys on this one, but what's the best

916
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:52,960
way to approach this? I don't think that
situation.

917
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:57,679
» Yeah. And I mean, you know, that
individual, they have kind of a primary

918
01:36:54,560 --> 01:37:05,159
presenter people ask questions. So
there's a couple of presentation very

919
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:05,159
specific things are presenting.

920
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:11,840
Okay. Is that work?
>> I don't see a dozen people.

921
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:15,440
» No, I don't see
this group.

922
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:22,360
» Yeah, that's fine. We'll make sure we
have time

923
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:22,360
folks for the parts of the

924
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:28,800
So, anybody who's not part of the
presentation,

925
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:33,960
do you anybody on this right side that
wants to get up and provide additional

926
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:33,960
feedback?

927
01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:45,239
Well, with that, uh, I entertain a
motion to close public hearing.

928
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:45,239
» Okay.

929
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:51,320
» All right. Applicant 14.

930
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:58,440
Uh, please do.

931
01:38:05,679 --> 01:38:11,760
Great.
>> So, thank you very much for uh allowing

932
01:38:08,639 --> 01:38:15,920
us to speak to this and um I just want
to go kind of quickly over the narrative

933
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:19,080
that pops
through it.

934
01:38:19,119 --> 01:38:22,119
I'll

935
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:29,119
cut
the club. I do have a parking space at

936
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:33,440
the club. I try to use it as often as
I'm there. And uh then I I put my

937
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:39,199
parking space outside the toward the
corner because my truck is big and I

938
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:44,000
don't want to take up space. Um anyway,
uh with me uh I have a little team. I'll

939
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:48,960
introduce this that probably makes sense
to me at this point. We have Scott

940
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:54,320
Smith. He is our project manager for the
Dark Project. Um he is a former board of

941
01:38:51,679 --> 01:38:58,960
director member. He was chief of
navigation with the US Coast Guard and

942
01:38:56,639 --> 01:39:05,119
captain of the coast guard cutter
icebreaker vaccine. So uh he he is here

943
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:12,639
to support any discussions that do with
navigation and access also the Eg and

944
01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:17,679
Army Corp. And then we have Bob Dong
who's already said hello. Bob is our

945
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:23,119
judge advocate counterpart and then
Spencer Anderson from Edward Resources

946
01:39:21,440 --> 01:39:28,239
and Edgewater if you don't know them as
a a national leader in Connecticut

947
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:34,920
design consultants to help us make sure
that we're covering all of our needs and

948
01:39:30,719 --> 01:39:34,920
doing the best job we can

949
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:45,360
overc
as as we said is a private marina we

950
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:49,520
currently have 78 West slips. We have a
members only restaurant and bar provide

951
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:56,400
facilities for community and junior
sailing. Mic is requesting we add 48 new

952
01:39:53,199 --> 01:40:02,480
slips to our area and install 4,300
square feet of floating dock for our

953
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:06,920
existing dinghy fleet. And we believe
that we have shown

954
01:40:07,280 --> 01:40:14,159
parking space
parking lot

955
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:18,639
will be completed in two phases. Phase
one will start this fall if possible and

956
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:25,520
would be completed before the summer
2027. Phase two will be planned to start

957
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:30,560
in fall 27th and will be completed by
the summer 28. The uh project has been

958
01:40:28,719 --> 01:40:36,239
approved. Phase one has been approved by
the membership asking for permit entire

959
01:40:33,440 --> 01:40:40,239
process. So we want to fix back this
piece of it again get approved the

960
01:40:38,159 --> 01:40:46,639
entire thing
the um financial um all the financial

961
01:40:44,719 --> 01:40:52,159
components in this have been completely
secured. So we don't have any issue with

962
01:40:48,159 --> 01:40:57,520
that. The phase one project which is the
first group of docks is 30 new slips all

963
01:40:56,320 --> 01:41:01,760
like the current slips we have over
there. They're all pile subverted timber

964
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:08,159
docks and it'll be to the northeast of
our current um docks and it'll be on the

965
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:13,760
lakeward side as
construction supported fixed timber head

966
01:41:10,719 --> 01:41:18,880
wall also include four finger beers six
slips replacing taking out three so it's

967
01:41:17,199 --> 01:41:23,600
a positive three you don't have to do
all it's all on your

968
01:41:22,159 --> 01:41:28,719
uh the replacement of our existing
floating dock system with a larger

969
01:41:27,199 --> 01:41:33,920
better configured floating back system
would add 4,300 square feet of drive

970
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:44,320
which is the dingies they're currently
in the park out in our park and then um

971
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:47,760
reconfiguring um the dinghy parking area
provide

972
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:52,800
space
phase two would be the next year it

973
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:59,520
would be 12 horse so total what you
already have seen is 48 slips during

974
01:41:56,800 --> 01:42:04,080
During phase one and phase two, we plan
no changes to our landscaping, lighting,

975
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:08,880
or signage. That's important because our
landscaping is

976
01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:14,080
pretty along the street. We try to keep
a nice base to the road. All relevant EG

977
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:20,080
and US Army Department of Engineered
permits have been secured and we've had

978
01:42:16,639 --> 01:42:24,000
those for a couple years. Actually,
our project motive is is that, you know,

979
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:29,280
we have a we have a high demand for Bose
slips. We have a wait list members that

980
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:33,199
would like to put their votes at our
club. We just don't have the slips for

981
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:39,119
them. Currently, some [clears throat]
members store their votes off site do

982
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:44,960
want to use them. Others are stored as
we've said in the park and launch

983
01:42:42,480 --> 01:42:49,600
owners want to use their boats. Addition
of 48 foot slips would allow existing

984
01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:54,719
members with their boats in the water of
the club instead of having them in the

985
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:59,440
parking lot. Not all say there's 48 post
the parking lot water, but there are a

986
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:04,400
number of the installation of a new
floating dock system is a refinement of

987
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:09,821
our current floating system and would
allow us a lot more efficient both

988
01:43:06,480 --> 01:43:13,679
staging and launching. And this
[clears throat] supports our community

989
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:18,800
and junior sailing programs as well as
moving about 30 of our current dingies

990
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:24,560
that we have that are used every
Thursday for Navy sailing as well as

991
01:43:21,679 --> 01:43:31,520
dingies that are used for junior sailing
out of the water opening up the room for

992
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:36,000
80 parking spaces. So by adding 80
spaces, it brings our total count to

993
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:46,000
196.
The intent of this is to try to keep

994
01:43:40,480 --> 01:43:51,520
could put in more spaces trees grass.
So we're trying not to do that. I think

995
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:56,880
it's kind of funny conversation trees
going to

996
01:43:54,320 --> 01:44:01,280
um let's see
mixed use apartments as was introduced

997
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:05,760
earlier when we were first talking about
this the you know we're not just a

998
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:10,520
marino we're not just a restaurant we're
not you know we're a combination of

999
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:10,520
other

1000
01:44:11,679 --> 01:44:19,199
» so by adding slips we're not bringing in
more people because it's already our

1001
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:24,800
existing members that are on campus. So
people who might use their boat. So the

1002
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:28,800
mixed use actually is kind of ideally
suited for what we're talking about

1003
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:35,080
here. Um we have given you a table
outlining all park requirements for

1004
01:44:30,639 --> 01:44:35,080
uses. Um the mar3

1005
01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:41,679
slips
per the requirement is full parking

1006
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:47,280
space would be 123 parking spaces. The
restaurant with 200 seats would be 100

1007
01:44:44,639 --> 01:44:51,600
parking spaces. But with mixed use, we
think although that ends up at two ends

1008
01:44:49,679 --> 01:44:56,800
of the 223,
we think that the general park requests

1009
01:44:54,639 --> 01:45:02,639
would allow us to be shorter by the 27
spaces because our like I said, they're

1010
01:44:59,119 --> 01:45:06,360
already there. So that was
our idea for the

1011
01:45:06,639 --> 01:45:13,119
um
[clears throat] I think I can conclude

1012
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:19,280
I'm going to conclude with that we want
to be neighbors. Um, we don't we don't

1013
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:22,560
like, you know, to have any enemies in
the neighborhood. We don't think that

1014
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:27,760
this is going to be a bad use of the
water. We think that our current members

1015
01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:31,440
are good stewards of the community.
Close down at a reasonable hour. We go

1016
01:45:29,440 --> 01:45:35,679
home, we don't have police, we don't end
up parking on the street unnecessarily,

1017
01:45:34,239 --> 01:45:40,000
but occasionally, of course, we have a
big event and uh and there will be

1018
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:44,400
people parking on the street, but that
happens in every facility. It's not

1019
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:48,440
common.
So, so these uh

1020
01:45:51,199 --> 01:45:55,719
» you just you want to just respond or

1021
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:16,239
without being patronizing
a thank you

1022
01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:22,880
for Having served for about 10 years as
planning commission member member of

1023
01:46:20,639 --> 01:46:27,560
I know
a lot of time a lot of effort

1024
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:40,159
um as
said I'm former

1025
01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:46,320
club and as it turns out my daughter is
now commodor the

1026
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:51,400
and I serve as a
provide legal services without paid

1027
01:46:58,639 --> 01:47:05,159
do that. Uh I live on in Mar2.

1028
01:47:07,440 --> 01:47:16,960
I just want to comment on the parking
issue. Uh we have in fact

1029
01:47:14,960 --> 01:47:22,080
parking issues along the way and we
think we have addressed them along the

1030
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:28,480
way. And
while there are times where both flows

1031
01:47:25,199 --> 01:47:34,320
are working is very infrequent. I
noticed that the photographs that the LP

1032
01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:41,360
submitted with her package included an
event in 2025

1033
01:47:36,719 --> 01:47:45,840
that we invited 100 uh young sailors
from around the country to come and

1034
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:51,760
participate in competition.
Uh I lived in that area. I drive in that

1035
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:57,280
area nearly every day and those
photographs were most unusual.

1036
01:47:54,639 --> 01:48:02,480
So it's easy when you're subjecting to a
program and trying to make financial

1037
01:48:00,960 --> 01:48:08,239
competition
to come up with general

1038
01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:15,199
the truth of the matter is I heard them
as the [clears throat] self drive on

1039
01:48:11,440 --> 01:48:20,440
many occasions when the are having huge
functions in their barn their car

1040
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:28,080
we have to put up security people to
protect our

1041
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:35,639
And we have the same situation with
people parking along the streets up and

1042
01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:35,639
down the street. Hope they understand

1043
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:47,040
neighbors. You don't hear club
complaining about their situation.

1044
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:54,239
underneath all of this is really the
real issue and that is and they admitted

1045
01:48:50,080 --> 01:49:00,880
in their written material if we get
permission of these slopes then they're

1046
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:06,400
going to lose customers but I know from
my experience we know from your

1047
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:11,679
experience your job is not to protect
financial competitors

1048
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:17,119
this your job is obviously to help
protect

1049
01:49:12,639 --> 01:49:24,440
the community and to make sure that
standards are being maintained as I

1050
01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:24,440
suggest that we are. Excuse me.

1051
01:49:25,119 --> 01:49:31,199
» So
with that, we are very happy to answer

1052
01:49:28,719 --> 01:49:36,400
any questions that you have. We
encourage you

1053
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:42,920
maybe
this evening and allow us to move

1054
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:42,920
forward.

1055
01:49:57,600 --> 01:50:04,119
with that. This is the presentation the
applicant presentation

1056
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:18,239
public hearing. Um, so thank you for
presenting and I I'm I'm very fortunate

1057
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:22,159
here. Um, I I'm not a vote
but I'll speak this knowing your

1058
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:29,440
background. My nephew right now is a
mass maritime. I grew up in

1059
01:50:25,600 --> 01:50:34,280
Massachusetts but not so fortunately
when we're looking at what's been most

1060
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:34,280
relevant

1061
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:43,560
engineers that look at the
the effectiveness and efficiency of the

1062
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:43,560
doc

1063
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:53,360
those sources.
Um, I think it's really interesting that

1064
01:50:50,480 --> 01:50:58,639
so many people that have fond memories
or are members are uh enjoy and

1065
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:04,080
appreciate everything that the club
does, but also as

1066
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:07,080
specific and concerned about the
parking.

1067
01:51:07,440 --> 01:51:17,159
So, it's I can see that people
feel very good about what we do but are

1068
01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:17,159
very concerned about

1069
01:51:19,679 --> 01:51:26,960
So, I'm just I'm gonna I have a number
of things here. Um I I will ask a couple

1070
01:51:25,280 --> 01:51:33,040
of questions and I kind of open it up.
Um

1071
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:37,360
growth from over the last say over the
last two to three years. Are you I've

1072
01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:44,040
seen a lot of numbers around is it
around 600 members at this point? Yeah,

1073
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:44,040
that's been a stable number for

1074
01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:51,560
just after renovation. So about 10
years.

1075
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:51,560
» Okay.

1076
01:51:52,320 --> 01:52:05,440
I noticed one question I had was in the
per looks like they were issued 22 23.

1077
01:52:02,159 --> 01:52:11,679
Um I I assume this is a pretty expensive
proposition. Is there other reasons why

1078
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:17,119
that why the project is now is now on
the board? Does it take

1079
01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:21,880
a slow moving organization? It has to go
through and go

1080
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:34,199
about 75%.

1081
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:47,040
That's and um that's how we
>> I was involved in the peritting process.

1082
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:53,040
We got to the original two or three
years ago. And I can tell you that it

1083
01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:57,119
was the intention at the time to lay the
groundwork to make sure we could do it

1084
01:52:54,719 --> 01:53:00,840
in the first place before we started
spending money with.

1085
01:53:06,719 --> 01:53:10,679
So that was our first

1086
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:14,520
five years, right?

1087
01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:26,280
Um, I noticed in the Army Corps of
Engineers, I think they approved 50

1088
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:26,280
slips and sounds like that's

1089
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,400
approved.

1090
01:53:35,679 --> 01:53:43,199
What? This is this is relevant to
parking. Um, can you kind of tell me a

1091
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:47,800
little bit about the
program? It sounds like it's

1092
01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:56,840
» Oh, sorry.

1093
01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:06,400
Thank you. Um the MJA is uh it's been
it's been since uh well I'm up to old

1094
01:54:04,239 --> 01:54:13,599
but it's been around since I was a kid.
Um and the age range is around six years

1095
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:18,639
old for kinder sale and then up to um
you know high school kids in our in our

1096
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:22,320
general summer program. We also do adult
learners sale which have two loads for

1097
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:27,599
that and that's on Tuesdays and Thursday
nights. So not when kids are there and

1098
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:34,960
um it's a very popular program. I think
we had um among all of all the kids this

1099
01:54:31,440 --> 01:54:37,679
year was around 400 which is um you know
but it's spread out across the whole

1100
01:54:36,239 --> 01:54:44,080
summer in some cases there for five
days. So it's it's us but and then when

1101
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:50,320
we do these big events like go over the
B sometimes people across the country

1102
01:54:47,199 --> 01:54:54,719
and you know virgin what have you but
that's two or three days um everyone has

1103
01:54:52,800 --> 01:55:00,199
a great time
they go back to other machine awesome

1104
01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:06,360
Well, this is

1105
01:55:06,719 --> 01:55:13,840
400 or not.
>> Yeah, we we've had um this year we were

1106
01:55:11,599 --> 01:55:20,320
um the number flexes, but it's probably
around 60% to 40%

1107
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:25,040
public versus club member kids that are
there. Most of the time the way it works

1108
01:55:22,480 --> 01:55:30,639
is the parents drive in uh you know they
they drop off their kids, they say hello

1109
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:34,480
to the coach and then they're gone and
then they come back at noon and they

1110
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:41,119
come back at 4 and pick up their kids.
We also run a a sailing program um for

1111
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:44,239
Black River and we have um H Christian
and

1112
01:55:42,719 --> 01:55:48,239
a couple of other high schools that are
based there and train there in the fall

1113
01:55:46,480 --> 01:55:54,320
and in the spring and then we have
college and Grand Valley that also train

1114
01:55:50,719 --> 01:55:57,679
there spring and fall and um some of
those but some of those kids get dry but

1115
01:55:56,159 --> 01:56:02,599
that's not even close to peak season so
it doesn't matter.

1116
01:55:59,599 --> 01:56:02,599
Thanks.

1117
01:56:06,639 --> 01:56:13,840
Chair, may I speak?
>> I'm going to interject as we go along on

1118
01:56:10,719 --> 01:56:18,400
certain, but um so I had two of my sons
actually go through the sale program.

1119
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:24,320
This is pretty good. It was over 25
years ago. You guys had great

1120
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:29,639
programming. Um lot of involvement with
community as you just explained outside.

1121
01:56:30,239 --> 01:56:39,040
I hear all this and I hear the parking
issues. It's almost as if

1122
01:56:37,280 --> 01:56:46,320
and um I really don't know how to
address that. But

1123
01:56:42,639 --> 01:56:52,159
my comparison is I listened to the
issues. I you know I compared to the

1124
01:56:49,599 --> 01:56:57,679
short-term rentals around me. I hate to
bring that up but yes one time events.

1125
01:56:55,360 --> 01:57:02,320
Well, they've got onetime events several
times with parking on my lawn and the

1126
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:07,040
neighbor's lawn and and disrupting the
neighborhood big time. And it sounds

1127
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:15,440
like some of your overflows may do that
and it's just the wrong subs the wrong

1128
01:57:10,159 --> 01:57:20,239
way. Um, first phase of this being just
add more voting slips seems backwards to

1129
01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:27,520
me. I think the first phase needs to be
addressing parking and accounting for

1130
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:33,119
large events and making sure that those
people can stay on your property and not

1131
01:57:30,880 --> 01:57:36,480
gender on your neighbors.
>> So, um, one of the things that that

1132
01:57:35,360 --> 01:57:40,719
happened over the last
>> just just clear this is kind of

1133
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:45,440
discussion phase for us
>> as far as if we have some questions that

1134
01:57:43,199 --> 01:57:49,000
we need verification.
>> Thanks. We'll ask

1135
01:57:49,496 --> 01:57:51,516
[laughter]

1136
01:57:53,840 --> 01:58:01,040
I'll just I'll just say that I thought a
little bit about I think it's probably I

1137
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:06,199
don't think the the issue is intentional
but it's a result of people there.

1138
01:58:14,159 --> 01:58:22,800
Yes.
One one thing in the application that

1139
01:58:18,800 --> 01:58:32,400
struck out to me struck out to me um was
he used they used parking portraits um

1140
01:58:28,239 --> 01:58:41,760
to come up with the 223 spaces
but they only used restaurant bar and

1141
01:58:37,119 --> 01:58:45,760
marina but the parking ordinance also
has

1142
01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:51,520
parking requirements.
And also it has parking requirements for

1143
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:56,719
assembly halls which I would call the
the sailing center and assembly hall.

1144
01:58:54,320 --> 01:59:03,119
So, I'm having
I don't I don't know what those

1145
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:10,320
accessory uses, as they're called, adds
to the total, but I think 223

1146
01:59:06,639 --> 01:59:17,080
from an ordinance definition is is low
in this

1147
01:59:12,239 --> 01:59:17,080
uh request, but I don't know how.

1148
01:59:17,199 --> 01:59:22,639
» Thank you.
>> That was one of my questions as well.

1149
01:59:21,040 --> 01:59:27,119
There's
um 600

1150
01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:34,400
600 members
um 78 slips

1151
01:59:30,480 --> 01:59:41,760
um but um occupancy of the main building
is 200 200 restaurant how does that work

1152
01:59:38,320 --> 01:59:47,280
if 400 people show up are they I would
imagine

1153
01:59:44,080 --> 01:59:51,760
their own you know like how do you
manage

1154
01:59:48,960 --> 01:59:54,480
um the different uses that have any
terms of politics

1155
01:59:53,679 --> 01:59:58,639
or
>> we we can ask that question if you've

1156
01:59:56,719 --> 02:00:01,880
got because I I assume you have weddings
if that's

1157
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:07,480
» weddings you got a conference whether
there's a conference

1158
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:14,159
no we we don't really have a conference
if we're going to do if there's a

1159
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:19,040
wedding there it's going to be um
because that night there wouldn't be

1160
02:00:16,239 --> 02:00:22,000
members so we do weddings if we do do
weddings they would be in in the fall or

1161
02:00:20,719 --> 02:00:28,080
in the spring. We don't allow them in
the summer. And then um there is no real

1162
02:00:25,520 --> 02:00:31,920
assembly area for like the junior area.
What we did is there was a an open

1163
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:35,360
portico area. We closed all that, but
that's just where the kids go and put

1164
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:38,239
their bags and they're going to do some
classroom time while they do their

1165
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:43,440
classroom time. Again, these aren't
people that are driving there. One of

1166
02:00:40,639 --> 02:00:48,880
the things you say that they came to us
is how do we increase our parking on the

1167
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:52,400
campus that we have? And the way that we
came to that was, oh wait, we get these

1168
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:55,840
boats in the parking lot out of the
parking lot, which seems really simple,

1169
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:59,920
right? Like we've done just tell people
it didn't it isn't that easy. But then

1170
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:05,760
we said, oh, we can get all the JY's,
the 420s and the VX all types of boats.

1171
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:09,679
We can get all moved and then that can
all become parking and the only way to

1172
02:01:07,599 --> 02:01:14,560
do that is we're model water. And so
that is why in the in the order of

1173
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:19,040
things junior dock area the floating
dock area in place our current floating

1174
02:01:16,159 --> 02:01:23,360
dock area is number one that's in phase
one that's the first thing that we need

1175
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:28,880
to have happen in order to increase the
so that was thought and um you know

1176
02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:32,040
again it's a number of people that can
be there

1177
02:01:33,920 --> 02:01:39,480
understand your point about the pool but
it's still the same group of people.

1178
02:01:41,368 --> 02:01:43,388
» [laughter]

1179
02:01:50,159 --> 02:01:58,000
» I also have another question. Is there
some

1180
02:01:54,560 --> 02:02:01,440
that members have that show or there any
way to indicate

1181
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:05,440
who they're who is parking there as a
member?

1182
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:09,440
» So, we have uh parking rules that are
uninforced. We do have a permit process

1183
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:13,440
which is not enforced and one of the
things we're trying to avoid is you know

1184
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:18,400
creating a lot of enforcement about that
but we certainly can and and at times we

1185
02:02:16,719 --> 02:02:25,840
will we'll say hey you're we're going to
have you know 125th anniversary party so

1186
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:29,840
we're going to tell everybody you car
and and that works out just fine. Um,

1187
02:02:28,000 --> 02:02:33,360
and we have um, you know, we know that
our neighbors have rules about parking

1188
02:02:31,199 --> 02:02:37,280
and we don't park there and we don't we
don't have any problems with parking on

1189
02:02:35,760 --> 02:02:42,239
the street where we've had anybody get
towed or any tickets or anything. So, we

1190
02:02:39,679 --> 02:02:45,239
do we could enforce the rule if we need
to.

1191
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:52,440
» Sounds like we could have enforced the
rules several years back

1192
02:02:52,639 --> 02:02:56,679
the we're in right now.

1193
02:03:04,080 --> 02:03:10,480
Yeah, my thoughts are, you know, take
anybody down here for example. They've

1194
02:03:08,159 --> 02:03:15,440
got limited parking, but they comply
with uh the number of parking spaces

1195
02:03:13,199 --> 02:03:19,679
required for the seats that they have.
Um, if they wanted to move a little bit

1196
02:03:18,159 --> 02:03:24,440
further than the strip mall, they'd have
to add more parking isn't available.

1197
02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:32,599
Look at this like any other business got
certain activities going on.

1198
02:03:32,639 --> 02:03:38,840
Sure. I mean right now probably 30 terms

1199
02:03:57,679 --> 02:04:05,280
that there are 200 seats. There are also
individuals who are working

1200
02:04:02,159 --> 02:04:08,280
photographers. There are other service
providers.

1201
02:04:08,639 --> 02:04:18,400
Even with the revised perost number of
breakfast spots, they don't meet the

1202
02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:26,280
offse parking that would be required to
host those events as you have

1203
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:26,280
or not. Um

1204
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:36,480
I know there's a limited amount of space
and it's it's clearly um it's clearly

1205
02:04:33,520 --> 02:04:41,840
difficult because there is a lot of
community engagement and there is a lot

1206
02:04:38,159 --> 02:04:47,679
of want to um be able to be a member and
be able to participate. Um but looking

1207
02:04:45,679 --> 02:04:56,480
at
the use, looking at the space capacity,

1208
02:04:51,280 --> 02:05:03,400
looking at um the reality
based on the plan that I have reviewed,

1209
02:04:59,760 --> 02:05:03,400
I believe

1210
02:05:11,599 --> 02:05:18,880
the number of members the number of
abuses um which do include outside of

1211
02:05:16,719 --> 02:05:24,520
the community or outside of the
membership in the larger community

1212
02:05:21,520 --> 02:05:24,520
um

1213
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:32,719
I can say I have I have attended a
wedding there many years ago it's now

1214
02:05:31,040 --> 02:05:37,040
but
>> yeah if you reach what it

1215
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:45,320
the nature of

1216
02:05:45,679 --> 02:05:50,840
greater than one.
So

1217
02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:58,920
there's daily

1218
02:06:05,440 --> 02:06:13,119
trailer
addition. So it is just the nature of

1219
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:20,080
the activity
more parking than just the main

1220
02:06:16,880 --> 02:06:25,119
accommodation which was itself. So I
think that is has been a challenge over

1221
02:06:22,159 --> 02:06:30,320
the time discussed
deal with I'm not sure there was already

1222
02:06:28,239 --> 02:06:33,320
reasonable set of calculations that
allow

1223
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:45,040
that's
good into it. Thank you everybody. Um I

1224
02:06:42,480 --> 02:06:50,960
guess a couple questions uh or a couple
maybe a timeout question. Um it's I I

1225
02:06:48,960 --> 02:06:57,360
understand the challenges with the
smaller boats taking up space in the

1226
02:06:52,639 --> 02:07:01,440
park, but I also think it's um not
totally accurate to say that we're going

1227
02:06:58,880 --> 02:07:07,199
to we're going to add a number of
parking spaces

1228
02:07:03,840 --> 02:07:14,719
repurposing been repurposing those small
boats and now there's a plan to be able

1229
02:07:09,520 --> 02:07:16,239
to move those folks in parking lot
isn't going to

1230
02:07:16,077 --> 02:07:22,560
» [clears throat]
>> I know you have you have your control.

1231
02:07:19,199 --> 02:07:31,000
Um there was mentioned uh offsite
parking as a possibility.

1232
02:07:25,920 --> 02:07:31,000
Have you that particular situation?

1233
02:07:37,920 --> 02:07:44,840
We haven't put a a serious effort into
that making any offers on any property

1234
02:07:48,239 --> 02:07:59,719
about that as well. So it would be
possible for us rent space on location

1235
02:07:55,599 --> 02:07:59,719
could explore that we have.

1236
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:07,920
» So at this point uh any additional
comments for

1237
02:08:06,239 --> 02:08:12,719
» I just have a question. running out of
the week of the and we won't get the

1238
02:08:10,560 --> 02:08:20,960
number tonight but have a broader
understanding of what exactly

1239
02:08:16,480 --> 02:08:24,760
what the facilities support on
required to

1240
02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:33,760
» yeah we didn't do the calculation based
on the restaurant bar and the and the

1241
02:08:31,679 --> 02:08:38,000
goals there have been a number of
questions that have come up about

1242
02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:43,840
other rooms that are on the site as
well.

1243
02:08:39,679 --> 02:08:50,880
So we can look back at that.
Um we could also park

1244
02:08:48,079 --> 02:08:55,719
what what are the actual uses on the
site if we're talking about overflow

1245
02:08:52,719 --> 02:08:55,719
parking

1246
02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:59,000
you don't want

1247
02:09:00,159 --> 02:09:07,760
you don't want to you don't want to do
that for one day. Um but if it's not one

1248
02:09:05,040 --> 02:09:16,639
day you know how often how often is
overall actually happen this month or is

1249
02:09:11,440 --> 02:09:23,040
this place where this issue happen so
those are some things that if you wanted

1250
02:09:18,960 --> 02:09:27,800
to pursue that further from that angle
>> yeah I think I refer to

1251
02:09:28,320 --> 02:09:36,320
» well that would be um the two options
one I could just go dig a little bit

1252
02:09:33,280 --> 02:09:42,239
deeper with some of those
back to you or you ask the applicant to

1253
02:09:40,000 --> 02:09:45,400
come back
to show

1254
02:09:49,679 --> 02:09:59,639
more
experience as far as investigating

1255
02:09:55,840 --> 02:09:59,639
offsite investigation

1256
02:10:01,520 --> 02:10:03,760
that

1257
02:10:04,320 --> 02:10:10,440
I like the idea
actual data

1258
02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:22,199
and then also um even a better
um layout plan of how the

1259
02:10:22,639 --> 02:10:28,760
coming right
open

1260
02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:37,880
for um
trailers and whatnot. And then how do we

1261
02:10:34,079 --> 02:10:37,880
get from there to 200?

1262
02:10:38,159 --> 02:10:41,880
I'd like to see that.

1263
02:10:48,239 --> 02:10:57,040
Well, the thought that's popped in my
mind is is what is what is stopping you

1264
02:10:53,760 --> 02:11:03,520
from just doing the 4300 square foot
floating dock and the dies all on there

1265
02:10:59,360 --> 02:11:10,000
and then see what the impact of that is
on parking and this third there's not if

1266
02:11:08,000 --> 02:11:13,440
you got the permit you could do that
tomorrow right

1267
02:11:12,159 --> 02:11:19,119
it takes some time yeah
>> well

1268
02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:23,440
there's the cost to the cost to that but
you'd be debating parking places right

1269
02:11:20,880 --> 02:11:26,719
but right now you other than asking for
the permit right now we don't have in

1270
02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:31,920
our mind we don't really have a parking
issue it's something that's always in

1271
02:11:28,320 --> 02:11:37,880
the background but we have to
put the correct action in place because

1272
02:11:33,920 --> 02:11:37,880
we really felt this necessary

1273
02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:48,320
the over parking that's in that area is
not exclusive to yacht club there's a

1274
02:11:44,320 --> 02:11:52,159
whole bunch of cottages that only have
I know this is like sort of com but

1275
02:11:50,400 --> 02:11:56,800
reality is that all those cars are
parked on 32nd Street those aren't those

1276
02:11:54,880 --> 02:12:01,119
people aren't
that's just that's not reality.

1277
02:11:59,360 --> 02:12:05,119
» They're not asking to expand.
>> Yeah. No, I don't

1278
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:08,800
» I don't that's the answer to why we
don't that's the answer to why we don't

1279
02:12:06,880 --> 02:12:13,280
go increase the junior do right now
because we don't really have an

1280
02:12:10,960 --> 02:12:17,679
oppressing need and it's expensive to
do. So we would do it to get the parking

1281
02:12:15,679 --> 02:12:20,400
so we can do the slips but we don't need
to do it. We're not going to do the

1282
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:25,239
slips.
>> It looks like the base plan

1283
02:12:26,239 --> 02:12:32,719
is a number spend half a million dollars
to build a bunch of floating docks that

1284
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:35,920
you don't necessarily need because right
now the boats are all there and on

1285
02:12:34,560 --> 02:12:40,159
landing we don't have a parking prop.
But we need the parking spaces. We build

1286
02:12:38,159 --> 02:12:45,760
that floating area and then we get the
parking spaces. need parking spaces for

1287
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:52,440
the new slider
that there's several people that say you

1288
02:12:48,480 --> 02:12:52,440
do have problem.

1289
02:12:52,560 --> 02:12:59,040
» It looks like you've also got
infrastructure that's required that's

1290
02:12:56,719 --> 02:13:02,320
going to support
that.

1291
02:13:00,000 --> 02:13:07,679
» Yeah, a little bit.
>> Okay. Thank you. Well, we've heard I

1292
02:13:05,119 --> 02:13:12,320
think we've done already. Thank you all
for

1293
02:13:09,920 --> 02:13:16,960
he has provided an option which I think
makes a lot of sense.

1294
02:13:14,800 --> 02:13:23,079
We have really a few options. We can
either and since this is a special use

1295
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:23,079
this actually

1296
02:13:24,320 --> 02:13:27,480
we have

1297
02:13:34,079 --> 02:13:37,079
so

1298
02:13:48,320 --> 02:13:54,280
what's happening other times
different

1299
02:14:02,719 --> 02:14:06,719
are going to rely on equipment

1300
02:14:07,599 --> 02:14:16,400
criteria for parking study or are we
going to providing some

1301
02:14:14,079 --> 02:14:23,079
trails
and asking questioned here

1302
02:14:20,079 --> 02:14:23,079
now

1303
02:14:25,599 --> 02:14:32,520
um
how do you ensure that

1304
02:14:33,679 --> 02:14:42,400
based on
specific

1305
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:47,520
criteria that would be
not subjective

1306
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:53,119
» um in that cost.
>> Maybe that's a question for staff

1307
02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:58,880
that start with staff and they develop
the governes

1308
02:14:56,159 --> 02:15:03,000
on the sharing
will allow for us.

1309
02:15:03,920 --> 02:15:10,520
I think
on top of that

1310
02:15:13,199 --> 02:15:16,199
addressing

1311
02:15:27,440 --> 02:15:35,280
parking lot
without the boats because apparently

1312
02:15:32,719 --> 02:15:38,280
numbers
respecting

1313
02:15:56,560 --> 02:16:05,239
used
to

1314
02:16:02,239 --> 02:16:05,239
check

1315
02:16:11,199 --> 02:16:14,360
the numbers

1316
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:22,280
ask for

1317
02:16:27,199 --> 02:16:33,320
And if and if there is how does what are
options here

1318
02:16:45,519 --> 02:16:54,120
discussing but also I think
you have that kind of data for current

1319
02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:54,120
use or recent

1320
02:17:00,960 --> 02:17:08,639
we have a lot of probably a lot of data
that could be useful

1321
02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:13,760
number of covers that day people serve
today um we would have that and um but

1322
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:18,080
we could you know we can take into all
sorts of stuff that feeds on that our

1323
02:17:15,679 --> 02:17:24,000
computer system um we're not going to
have anything where we register key card

1324
02:17:21,359 --> 02:17:27,399
that yeah we we have I think we have
sufficient data

1325
02:17:30,479 --> 02:17:33,479
points

1326
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:42,439
when they are people

1327
02:17:45,840 --> 02:17:50,800
» right yeah must have numbers for those
types of

1328
02:17:49,359 --> 02:17:57,599
a pretty regular schedule.
>> We do

1329
02:17:52,399 --> 02:18:00,679
know exactly how the wedding tells
each other.

1330
02:18:18,319 --> 02:18:25,679
And I can't even ask for what are the
what are the criteria for

1331
02:18:23,760 --> 02:18:29,479
the events.
I think really any

1332
02:18:31,679 --> 02:18:38,280
schedule that you've got a plan for the
6.7

1333
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:46,439
changes over that time

1334
02:18:46,960 --> 02:18:52,200
you know significant increase

1335
02:18:52,319 --> 02:18:59,639
have numbers events that took place this
year anything you can provide would be

1336
02:19:00,240 --> 02:19:06,040
hopefully I think as you mentioned maybe
you'll find some things

1337
02:19:07,120 --> 02:19:13,679
we can't manage this because
clearly you feel you've been able to

1338
02:19:11,519 --> 02:19:20,160
manage the parking situation but
neighbors others don't feel that way

1339
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:27,439
figure out
>> yeah have your didn't earlier We have an

1340
02:19:24,719 --> 02:19:31,519
event like the an invitational for the
BX

1341
02:19:29,439 --> 02:19:37,280
40.
We go to one of our members down the

1342
02:19:33,519 --> 02:19:41,200
road say put 40 trailers in your field.
Yep. Absolutely. We say hey all the

1343
02:19:40,240 --> 02:19:46,880
people that are going to show up for
this event park over there and drive

1344
02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:49,520
car. So we need to be flip and say we
don't feel like we have a problem. We

1345
02:19:48,319 --> 02:19:55,319
know we're going to have something
coming that's going to do that. We say

1346
02:19:51,680 --> 02:19:55,319
here's how we're stop

1347
02:19:55,920 --> 02:20:03,520
you need to come
there will be a bus out there with the

1348
02:20:00,880 --> 02:20:06,520
driver. So we do do those when it's
necessary.

1349
02:20:07,021 --> 02:20:09,041
[clears throat]

1350
02:20:10,000 --> 02:20:20,200
» Changing how parking has been open since
you got the permit from

1351
02:20:15,920 --> 02:20:20,200
» No, I don't think anything has changed.

1352
02:20:22,399 --> 02:20:26,479
» Your wind newsletter.
>> Yeah.

1353
02:20:24,240 --> 02:20:30,880
» And from 2023, there's a little excerpt
here. Parking is always a topic of

1354
02:20:28,160 --> 02:20:35,120
discussion and a study is in process on
how we might increase parking capacity.

1355
02:20:33,760 --> 02:20:39,120
» Yes, we did.
>> Yeah, we did do we did do a study an

1356
02:20:37,760 --> 02:20:42,120
engineering firm come in and they
publish

1357
02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:49,439
grass along the road and I think parking
spaces along

1358
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:54,720
trying to
if that's required we could do it but

1359
02:20:51,760 --> 02:21:00,240
that grass is a pretty nice feature. So
we can avoid it like avoid it.

1360
02:20:57,280 --> 02:21:03,840
» You also reference simultaneous events
being calendar ball upstairs events

1361
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:07,680
people enjoy the pool.
>> Yeah.

1362
02:21:04,399 --> 02:21:14,240
» So that does all the amount of people
that are on location at one time.

1363
02:21:10,000 --> 02:21:20,359
» Sure. But one of the ball had 80 people
that year and you know 75

1364
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:20,359
go back.

1365
02:21:21,120 --> 02:21:24,120
Yeah.

1366
02:21:31,280 --> 02:21:37,479
else.
>> No, I don't think so at the moment.

1367
02:21:41,359 --> 02:21:46,520
It is
question.

1368
02:21:50,240 --> 02:21:53,240
» All right.

1369
02:21:58,560 --> 02:22:07,319
So I would entertain a motion uh for a
motion at the table

1370
02:22:04,160 --> 02:22:07,319
with the

1371
02:22:08,319 --> 02:22:12,680
second.
>> All in favor?

1372
02:22:13,200 --> 02:22:16,439
Thank you.

1373
02:22:33,520 --> 02:22:36,920
Thank you folks.

1374
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:53,800
folks.

1375
02:23:18,399 --> 02:23:22,319
We're still in session. Thank you.

1376
02:23:22,880 --> 02:23:26,120
Thank you.

1377
02:23:28,160 --> 02:23:37,319
» All right. So, we are now moving up
proposing to amended that was.

1378
02:23:38,000 --> 02:23:47,439
» Yes. So, um I have a couple things that
I can go through here as far as the C2.

1379
02:23:44,560 --> 02:23:51,359
Um at the at the board meeting, there
were a few comments that came in. Um,

1380
02:23:49,680 --> 02:23:56,560
and one of the board members also did an
AI review or there's a bunch of stuff

1381
02:23:54,399 --> 02:24:04,240
through the AI about this. That's not
correct. Um, so I went through the board

1382
02:24:01,600 --> 02:24:08,800
as I just take a second look at some of
the things that come up. Um,

1383
02:24:06,720 --> 02:24:13,760
unfortunately that came in just about an
hour.

1384
02:24:11,680 --> 02:24:20,840
Um so there there were a few different
comments that came in made a few changes

1385
02:24:16,080 --> 02:24:20,840
to based on

1386
02:24:21,439 --> 02:24:33,120
um most of
there are a few different um categories

1387
02:24:27,760 --> 02:24:40,399
I guess the came one was there were some
public comments primarily but some of

1388
02:24:35,439 --> 02:24:45,399
the the review as well saying broad
need to

1389
02:24:42,160 --> 02:24:45,399
quite a fewments

1390
02:24:49,840 --> 02:24:58,560
for the short term to make certain
things go more smoothly until we get

1391
02:24:55,840 --> 02:25:05,439
right. So um with the zoning ordinance
rewrite the RFPs were due today is today

1392
02:25:03,680 --> 02:25:13,760
last week I don't know anyway they were
due recent

1393
02:25:08,160 --> 02:25:18,600
we're meeting tomorrow to go through the
decision we need to interview

1394
02:25:19,040 --> 02:25:26,640
that that process will be starting
within the next day what we anticipate

1395
02:25:24,479 --> 02:25:31,439
that so when it comes to broaden the
scope. Really kind of want to keep it

1396
02:25:29,200 --> 02:25:34,439
where it's at.
Changes.

1397
02:25:34,800 --> 02:25:42,080
There were also a couple typos and there
was some wording that was that was

1398
02:25:39,520 --> 02:25:47,120
confusing. So made a few changes around
that wording just to make that more

1399
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:52,319
clear. And then there's
were existing provisions on the distance

1400
02:25:49,600 --> 02:25:57,359
of
presence of free space. um commercial

1401
02:25:55,600 --> 02:26:01,280
properties and then the distance for
parking from the street and those two

1402
02:25:58,960 --> 02:26:05,120
things didn't exactly predict each
other. They were different numbers were

1403
02:26:03,040 --> 02:26:13,040
kind of the same. So those were that was
an existing one and one was 15. Um so

1404
02:26:09,760 --> 02:26:20,960
that's really the only more policy based
item that is that was in there. Um

1405
02:26:18,080 --> 02:26:25,800
there so for that one that's one that
you might want to take a look at

1406
02:26:22,800 --> 02:26:25,800
harmoniz

1407
02:26:27,439 --> 02:26:33,720
just putting those two things they might
have changed.

1408
02:26:35,120 --> 02:26:41,359
So, so there was that. Um, there was a
comment um that was mentioned again

1409
02:26:39,760 --> 02:26:46,080
tonight about some of the things we kind
of uh and specifically with regards to

1410
02:26:44,240 --> 02:26:49,600
some of the kitchen stuff going on. If
you guys want to strip some specifics

1411
02:26:47,680 --> 02:26:55,120
out, we're welcome to do that. The
purpose of that is that um when we're

1412
02:26:52,399 --> 02:27:00,560
going through and receiving applications
and administering the ordinance and this

1413
02:26:57,200 --> 02:27:07,760
is not specific this district
applications general um I think got a

1414
02:27:04,399 --> 02:27:10,800
six page email today ask
what about this definition and what

1415
02:27:09,280 --> 02:27:14,720
about that does this really mean that
and does that really mean this it more

1416
02:27:12,960 --> 02:27:20,240
specific sometimes it can feel a little
bit too just it adds so people really

1417
02:27:17,680 --> 02:27:24,800
know exactly
rather than going back

1418
02:27:22,640 --> 02:27:27,960
if you feel like it's too much out but
that was

1419
02:27:33,760 --> 02:27:44,520
so as usual the red line copy is
included um the previous amendments are

1420
02:27:39,359 --> 02:27:44,520
in red the changes are

1421
02:27:54,399 --> 02:27:59,680
Yeah. Yeah. Along with so we'll be a
hearing aid consultant that'll be

1422
02:27:57,680 --> 02:28:05,280
looking at all of the districts, all of
the uses um you know is this the

1423
02:28:02,960 --> 02:28:09,760
appropriate title for this? There have
been some suggestions um that maybe

1424
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:13,200
maybe the C2 district has it set up
right now really shouldn't be set up

1425
02:28:11,359 --> 02:28:17,280
this way. Maybe the key needs to be
something that's more arena specific and

1426
02:28:15,280 --> 02:28:21,600
then
commercial specifics and splits. That'll

1427
02:28:19,359 --> 02:28:26,880
be something that they'll come back with
with recommendations.

1428
02:28:24,080 --> 02:28:31,359
And I think that the good news is that a
lot of township and cities are going

1429
02:28:28,560 --> 02:28:36,399
through exactly what we're going
older ordinances zoning ordinances that

1430
02:28:34,000 --> 02:28:41,240
have been updated
years and things

1431
02:28:41,920 --> 02:28:46,280
that we need to be able

1432
02:28:49,840 --> 02:28:56,600
because of everybody else is not going
to process municipalities.

1433
02:28:57,680 --> 02:29:03,680
There's there's a number of folks that
got quite a bit of experience doing this

1434
02:29:01,760 --> 02:29:08,399
and they've gotten some really good
proposals

1435
02:29:05,359 --> 02:29:14,479
to look and I think they're good. It is
going to be a lengthy process

1436
02:29:11,120 --> 02:29:20,479
because the current ordinance like
pages. So there's a lot there, but I

1437
02:29:17,520 --> 02:29:27,359
think the end of the end of the process,
we're going to have something sense

1438
02:29:23,680 --> 02:29:31,520
consistent and
to answer your question, yes, I think

1439
02:29:28,880 --> 02:29:37,040
this is a relative
solution,

1440
02:29:33,359 --> 02:29:40,280
but shortterm could be
20 months

1441
02:29:41,439 --> 02:29:45,160
requested for this.

1442
02:29:46,080 --> 02:29:56,399
question
some of the requests for it.

1443
02:29:52,319 --> 02:30:01,200
I can certainly appreciate
the thought and logic behind it. Um

1444
02:29:59,359 --> 02:30:06,640
given the complexities that we are
experiencing even going through this and

1445
02:30:03,760 --> 02:30:12,720
trying to make some minorities.
Um my concern and this does this create

1446
02:30:10,640 --> 02:30:18,880
more confusion
amongst let's say some other

1447
02:30:16,000 --> 02:30:23,359
related um
ordinances that we may already have out

1448
02:30:20,880 --> 02:30:26,760
there right so AI was run against this
one checking

1449
02:30:26,880 --> 02:30:34,479
my concern is the more changes we're
making here

1450
02:30:30,800 --> 02:30:41,280
until we do the full ordinance rewrite I
don't really think we're stving mainly a

1451
02:30:37,120 --> 02:30:45,160
particular issue. I think we're just
taking additional action.

1452
02:30:45,359 --> 02:30:53,840
» We are there's there are
>> yeah there's some things that are making

1453
02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:57,680
administration tricky that is
only the C2.

1454
02:30:55,840 --> 02:31:01,760
» Yeah. Yeah. Originally when we started
this we're going to do one next that was

1455
02:30:59,600 --> 02:31:05,120
before we were planning the rewrite. So
we're kind of go through and do some

1456
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:08,800
matches. Um, since we're doing the
rewrite, we're probably touch

1457
02:31:08,319 --> 02:31:14,160
and
>> but there are some specific things.

1458
02:31:11,840 --> 02:31:17,680
» Okay. But it isn't creating a conflict
sequence.

1459
02:31:14,880 --> 02:31:22,720
» No, it shouldn't be. Um, and we do
whenever we do these updates, I did go

1460
02:31:19,760 --> 02:31:25,359
through and I double checked all the
references and said, "Please double

1461
02:31:24,000 --> 02:31:31,600
check this reference. It is probably
incorrect and it was not for clarity. It

1462
02:31:28,880 --> 02:31:36,000
wasn't the it wasn't the flattering
I was used." So I did go back and double

1463
02:31:34,240 --> 02:31:42,000
check all the references. So if we go in
and say you know um it refers to

1464
02:31:39,600 --> 02:31:46,319
whatever the the particular section is
we check that any of the sections I go

1465
02:31:44,479 --> 02:31:51,520
through and say okay does this does this
line. So can't say we never miss any but

1466
02:31:49,520 --> 02:31:56,399
we really do go through checklist really
make sure as much as possible that we're

1467
02:31:54,000 --> 02:32:01,920
not creating any.
>> Okay. I thank you. That makes me feel

1468
02:31:58,479 --> 02:32:07,399
that I appreciate that more than just
the review against

1469
02:32:04,399 --> 02:32:07,399
» Yeah.

1470
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:15,800
» So what's in red was the original edits
that were that were reviewed.

1471
02:32:16,240 --> 02:32:19,640
» Yes. And that

1472
02:32:20,000 --> 02:32:30,359
purple is what came on.
>> Yeah. I can go through those or um you

1473
02:32:25,920 --> 02:32:30,359
can ask questions to check.

1474
02:32:34,000 --> 02:32:44,319
» I have one question and it was confused
me. One of one of the purples

1475
02:32:41,520 --> 02:32:50,760
changed from 15 to 12 and that's what 12
ft for a front set back green space

1476
02:32:51,520 --> 02:33:00,359
you already mentioned and then as I read
through the here I don't know why caught

1477
02:32:56,720 --> 02:33:00,359
my eye but

1478
02:33:02,000 --> 02:33:05,560
on page 13

1479
02:33:05,840 --> 02:33:10,120
about the parking their eyes.

1480
02:33:10,399 --> 02:33:15,720
I think this
size.

1481
02:33:17,120 --> 02:33:22,800
» So I'm just wondering why.
>> Yeah,

1482
02:33:19,920 --> 02:33:28,200
» we put 15 then we got 12 and now we got
10.

1483
02:33:23,280 --> 02:33:28,200
» Um, it is the size

1484
02:33:29,600 --> 02:33:32,600
135.

1485
02:33:36,960 --> 02:33:44,080
Yes. requirements for parking area.
>> Yep. So that was um there should be

1486
02:33:41,359 --> 02:33:50,520
provided on each side and
you know 10 ft. So not the front

1487
02:33:46,640 --> 02:33:50,520
» and so 345

1488
02:33:54,399 --> 02:33:57,399
too.

1489
02:34:28,240 --> 02:34:31,240
Okay.

1490
02:35:07,120 --> 02:35:15,040
It's I think it comes down to how far
Are you are you looking at the

1491
02:35:13,600 --> 02:35:18,840
» I'm looking at
>> You're looking at your own

1492
02:35:20,399 --> 02:35:23,560
» your own

1493
02:35:30,880 --> 02:35:34,280
that's too muchever.

1494
02:35:45,840 --> 02:35:55,359
Well,
I I want to benefit staff. Whatever

1495
02:35:53,120 --> 02:36:01,880
the most
certain sections that really need to be

1496
02:35:57,680 --> 02:36:01,880
addressed several

1497
02:36:05,120 --> 02:36:09,920
applications,
right?

1498
02:36:14,080 --> 02:36:17,080
staffed

1499
02:36:17,760 --> 02:36:23,399
thus far.
>> I think I mean as as it is

1500
02:36:31,040 --> 02:36:34,840
going to be going

1501
02:36:47,600 --> 02:36:55,319
Well, we thought we had a warrior.
>> We sent it to the board and

1502
02:36:55,760 --> 02:37:00,240
came about.
>> Well, it wasn't just that. It was public

1503
02:36:59,760 --> 02:37:07,120
comment.
>> Oh, yes. I heard there were a lot.

1504
02:37:04,479 --> 02:37:07,120
» Okay.

1505
02:37:09,520 --> 02:37:17,640
I guess at this point
we can either feel like we've got

1506
02:37:14,640 --> 02:37:17,640
something

1507
02:37:25,840 --> 02:37:34,240
that most of the things were addressed
comfortable as it is.

1508
02:37:32,240 --> 02:37:37,120
Were there specific things that you that
you thought came up that that we should

1509
02:37:36,240 --> 02:37:41,800
talk about
>> discussing? No, just um

1510
02:37:43,600 --> 02:37:49,920
I would say no. If you are satisfied
with what you highlighted here in

1511
02:37:48,160 --> 02:37:56,240
purple,
that would get us to the point of um

1512
02:37:53,840 --> 02:38:04,640
clarifying what current applicants are
waiting on and not

1513
02:38:01,040 --> 02:38:07,800
while we wait for the to take
the week

1514
02:38:13,760 --> 02:38:18,920
that's coming from representative,
>> right?

1515
02:38:25,520 --> 02:38:31,720
» So,
do we need a motion at this point? is

1516
02:38:34,160 --> 02:38:37,160
already

1517
02:38:39,920 --> 02:38:45,160
recommendation
>> but now

1518
02:38:50,800 --> 02:38:57,000
is with regard to
hotel resort

1519
02:38:57,840 --> 02:39:00,160
and

1520
02:39:00,240 --> 02:39:05,479
So
the access

1521
02:39:11,280 --> 02:39:18,120
because we have two different GIS and so
they're not because our

1522
02:39:38,399 --> 02:39:47,000
So is there a further discussion?
If not

1523
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:47,000
motion

1524
02:39:56,319 --> 02:39:59,319
discussion

1525
02:40:02,160 --> 02:40:04,640
all in favor.

1526
02:40:04,960 --> 02:40:07,960
post.

1527
02:40:15,359 --> 02:40:18,359
Um

1528
02:40:18,800 --> 02:40:22,920
reports you want to speak

1529
02:40:23,120 --> 02:40:26,120
up.

1530
02:40:26,720 --> 02:40:33,680
» So it would be
ZBA.

1531
02:40:29,439 --> 02:40:39,640
» Yeah, ZBA. Um we had three items. First
one was an issue with the fence that was

1532
02:41:00,399 --> 02:41:06,600
rebuilding the walls in the
since they're

1533
02:41:07,200 --> 02:41:10,520
not performance.

1534
02:41:31,840 --> 02:41:41,520
We did and our board meeting was rather
it wasn't short but it was shorter than

1535
02:41:37,520 --> 02:41:50,399
most of our meetings for our
um two presentations. Our financial

1536
02:41:44,399 --> 02:41:57,520
audit for 2025 26 wased by
of um our accounting group that oversees

1537
02:41:53,359 --> 02:42:02,960
that stuff. Our budget was balances
found and there was nothing to the state

1538
02:42:00,399 --> 02:42:08,399
of Michigan for any
kudos to Connie and staff for just

1539
02:42:06,160 --> 02:42:12,880
getting us through another
financials.

1540
02:42:10,240 --> 02:42:18,720
The other uh presentation we had was
from the Ottawa County Road Commission

1541
02:42:14,800 --> 02:42:23,439
and Kurt and coing the updates on road
projects around the entire county. So

1542
02:42:21,120 --> 02:42:28,560
just not part time here. So, it was very
interesting. Um,

1543
02:42:26,160 --> 02:42:34,319
and the bottom line for every
intersection that is requesting stop

1544
02:42:31,120 --> 02:42:41,319
lights, they are no they're going to be
um they as road commission they are no

1545
02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:41,319
longer going to be putting into

1546
02:42:45,439 --> 02:42:57,240
the window. Now, interestingly enough,
the first section I will be 16th that is

1547
02:42:52,800 --> 02:42:57,240
going to be around probably

1548
02:43:16,800 --> 02:43:24,720
partner's question. It doesn't make
sense. There's so many big accidents at

1549
02:43:21,600 --> 02:43:28,880
stoplights and roundabouts make
everybody slow down.

1550
02:43:27,280 --> 02:43:34,200
I just thought it was an interesting
concept

1551
02:43:30,880 --> 02:43:34,200
that way

1552
02:43:35,359 --> 02:43:38,359
around

1553
02:43:42,560 --> 02:43:45,560
the

1554
02:43:47,520 --> 02:43:55,120
next meeting.
Perfect.

1555
02:43:51,680 --> 02:43:59,920
» Does that mean a roundabout is headed to
Butternut and 144?

1556
02:43:57,600 --> 02:44:03,800
» Yeah,
but that is um

1557
02:44:06,240 --> 02:44:11,319
we have five plan

1558
02:44:31,520 --> 02:44:34,520
people.

1559
02:44:43,680 --> 02:44:49,399
» Yeah. One of the one of the things that
roundabouts do

1560
02:44:50,720 --> 02:44:53,720
more

1561
02:45:03,600 --> 02:45:06,600
us

1562
02:45:13,439 --> 02:45:20,359
something along those lines. There's
just some emails right before the

1563
02:45:16,720 --> 02:45:20,359
meeting asking about

1564
02:45:23,279 --> 02:45:32,920
the quick look that I
look like. So you are encouraged to sign

1565
02:45:29,680 --> 02:45:32,920
up for that.

1566
02:45:35,359 --> 02:45:47,439
Um joint meeting with the township board
is I believe October 15. um

1567
02:45:43,520 --> 02:45:50,720
came up for sure. I think that was the
regular study session

1568
02:45:49,840 --> 02:45:56,080
Thursday.
>> Yeah, I don't have that on my calendar.

1569
02:45:53,120 --> 02:46:00,840
» Yeah. So, um that will be an area the
board is going to be starting some

1570
02:45:57,359 --> 02:46:00,840
strategic planning.

1571
02:46:01,279 --> 02:46:07,479
This will be kind of going in with that

1572
02:46:08,080 --> 02:46:12,800
same page and all of that you want to

1573
02:46:14,399 --> 02:46:21,080
on my phone. You are correct. It is
October 15, Thursday.

1574
02:46:25,120 --> 02:46:30,040
If you're able, let me know if you have

1575
02:46:35,415 --> 02:46:37,435
[laughter]

1576
02:46:38,035 --> 02:46:40,055
[clears throat]

1577
02:46:40,479 --> 02:46:49,840
the one hillside
development. uh after that was approved

1578
02:46:48,000 --> 02:46:52,840
by the planning commission board from
individuals.

1579
02:46:56,000 --> 02:47:05,920
And so after a period of time discussion
that

1580
02:47:01,920 --> 02:47:09,319
follow the intent of the
minor amendment

1581
02:47:10,479 --> 02:47:17,279
approval. So that has been that has been
approved.

1582
02:47:14,960 --> 02:47:21,920
Good job.
>> The minor one of the provisions or is

1583
02:47:19,760 --> 02:47:25,800
that certain minorities can be done by
staff with

1584
02:47:33,840 --> 02:47:42,960
» Um and then you touched on this already
uh but the zoning ordinance update is

1585
02:47:39,760 --> 02:47:46,359
getting going. We got four proposals in
there pretty

1586
02:47:48,720 --> 02:47:54,319
all of them are going to involve a
certain amount of

1587
02:47:52,399 --> 02:47:59,279
zoning ordinances are tricky with public
engagement.

1588
02:47:56,720 --> 02:48:04,120
So we want this
possible but there are going to be

1589
02:48:01,120 --> 02:48:04,120
things

1590
02:48:06,880 --> 02:48:17,120
but there's a there is a public outreach
education to each of these um what it's

1591
02:48:14,800 --> 02:48:21,520
probably going to look like is large
chunks coming to the commission at that

1592
02:48:18,960 --> 02:48:25,840
time not just for information and
review. Um there's going to be a

1593
02:48:23,680 --> 02:48:31,200
steering committee um that will be
working on this so meeting more

1594
02:48:28,880 --> 02:48:34,359
frequently to what the changes are going
to be.

1595
02:48:34,960 --> 02:48:43,359
One of the challenges um is going to be
that this is an entire zoning ordinance

1596
02:48:39,359 --> 02:48:48,479
re and so like to get into the details a
couple words get it very specific. It's

1597
02:48:46,640 --> 02:48:54,080
gonna have to be a little bit more high
if we want to get it right, but in order

1598
02:48:50,800 --> 02:48:57,240
to get it done, um, we're gonna have to
be just

1599
02:48:58,319 --> 02:49:07,439
so the first phase, um, I think we had
about four months or three to five

1600
02:49:05,520 --> 02:49:13,040
weeks. I think
I requested is going to be a technical

1601
02:49:10,479 --> 02:49:18,319
analysis of the existing
to go through this day. Here are the

1602
02:49:15,040 --> 02:49:23,359
things that adjusting things you don't
have that they have

1603
02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:29,359
that smoother. They're going to be
looking at um primary zoning. We also

1604
02:49:26,560 --> 02:49:33,600
have a subdivision chapter and we have
breakfast. Those are outside.

1605
02:49:31,760 --> 02:49:36,600
We want to make sure that they all work
together

1606
02:49:40,560 --> 02:49:48,240
will happen first and then after that it
be the actual rewrite process. So the

1607
02:49:45,439 --> 02:49:54,200
total the total amount of time is 20
months that we anticipate it taking

1608
02:49:50,960 --> 02:49:54,200
about February

1609
02:49:54,880 --> 02:50:03,439
we anticipate complet so it is so it'll
go to process wise you'll see parts of

1610
02:50:01,600 --> 02:50:08,840
it along the way there will be
qualification well and then

1611
02:50:10,319 --> 02:50:21,080
recommendation planning commission
for approval with standard process as

1612
02:50:18,080 --> 02:50:21,080
well.

1613
02:50:22,960 --> 02:50:30,399
I was I was really excited to see that
one of the outcomes is going to be an

1614
02:50:27,680 --> 02:50:37,439
easily document. There's an intent to
make this simple to understand

1615
02:50:33,120 --> 02:50:41,920
um most ordinances that were written in
that way.

1616
02:50:40,080 --> 02:50:46,720
Uh but the intent of this and it's part
of the part of the benefit of having a

1617
02:50:44,960 --> 02:50:51,840
consulting team who's done this in other
townships and other municipalities is

1618
02:50:49,200 --> 02:50:57,120
they found ways to
a lot simpler to understand that's at

1619
02:50:55,359 --> 02:51:02,319
the end of the day that's what I think
everybody wants people understand what

1620
02:50:59,760 --> 02:51:08,520
it is we're doing how it ties to master
plan and how it affects or benefits them

1621
02:51:08,800 --> 02:51:17,120
» yeah looking at colors charts as opposed
to see

1622
02:51:15,359 --> 02:51:21,439
things like that so you want to know
what

1623
02:51:19,040 --> 02:51:24,840
that little picture. You won't have to
try to decipher.

1624
02:51:28,720 --> 02:51:35,600
» All right.
Anything else? Thank you.

1625
02:51:33,760 --> 02:51:40,319
That covers our agenda.
>> Just one comment. Since the majority of

1626
02:51:38,399 --> 02:51:45,840
our colleagues
topic, we should probably try to be

1627
02:51:42,960 --> 02:51:54,399
aware of that in the future
that item up on the agenda.

1628
02:51:50,080 --> 02:51:59,279
I my thinking had been that since the
crossing been here a few times already.

1629
02:51:56,960 --> 02:52:02,520
I thought maybe that would be good, but
it wasn't

1630
02:52:10,960 --> 02:52:17,000
» Yeah, but you're right.
I always

1631
02:52:29,279 --> 02:52:32,279
support.

1632
02:52:36,399 --> 02:52:39,560
Thank you.