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That's why we didn't educate the art and the writing.

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Or my favorite call ever that I've gotten in this role as city man.

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Nice.

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You've buried somebody on top of my mother.

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Seriously?

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That was how the call started.

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Didn't even say hello.

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He said you've buried someone on top of my mother.

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In the committee cemetery?

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And it turns out Karen was awesome.

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Has her database.

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We know where her son is.

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and it turns out that the company did the burial,

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but the headstone in the wrong place

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was not like the headstone of the doctor's mother

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and the parents all did the same day.

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Wow.

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You're a very...

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That's a rough day.

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Right.

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It's a rough day.

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Are you going to push this right?

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Is it recorded?

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Maybe I'll...

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Okay.

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All right.

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All ready?

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President?

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Hey, before you guys start,

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I just want to thank you for your flexibility.

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I think you were on the agenda a few weeks ago

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and we ran over and had to do a last-minute audible, so thank you.

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You're welcome.

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You're welcome.

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We did.

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All right. Karen's going to kick it off.

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I'm just here for moral support and to run the PowerPoint.

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But I'll introduce Karen.

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For those of you who don't know her, Karen Yolkham.

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She's a recreation supervisor and the cemetery sextant.

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for the city and teaches fishing and archery multi-talented yes I wear many

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hats I'm the only one in the state I think that runs recreation programs as

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well as a cemetery I'm on the board for that reason I wanted to also introduce

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Heather Todd she's she is a recreation coordinator and she also assists with

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the cemetery so actually when she was hired she was the first she was

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administering the cemetery directly, and we've kind of switched things around.

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So I do all that, but she does it when I'm on vacation and I usually am on vacation

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when she's on vacation.

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So it works really well.

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And Karen, as maybe an example of how much the work that you do matters, just yesterday,

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right, we got a call and somebody had a, they had plots.

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It was a, they had a family member die.

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And I will, you tell the story.

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Well, it happened Tuesday and that was, I happened to be at our state conference in

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Provo presenting on the cemetery and the call came in, well, they called my desk,

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they called Heather's desk, and then I'm not sure where they went next but I

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know they talked to Michelle and then via that got to Ken, Ken called the

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woman back and said, you know, not a, not an issue, we'll, we'll get you

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handled. The person who died actually lives in Hawaii. Her mother, they all grew up in

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Park City and her mother lives right on Little Cate. And so I spoke with her and she was the,

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she's the cousin I believe. She was handling it for the mom who is now in Hawaii also.

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So they're all set. They're not back here yet.

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And the family was really distraught. And the idea that these guys could help that

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person same day and get the family right. They really, this place means a lot to them

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and that was really important to them. And I just appreciated that Karen had 18 other

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things going on and yet later that day I don't figure it out.

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Nice.

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Yeah, they were anxious so it was good to be able to help them, which is obviously

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pretty common if they don't plan ahead.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Planning out is, people tell me it's weird when they come to me ahead of time.

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Yeah. So thanks for allowing us to come and talk to you about the cemetery. I know you've

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all seen the report just as a little bit of a recap. We're closing in on the last sales

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of plots that are viable for full casket burial. And in Park City full casket burial is probably

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twice as common as cremation at this point. Nationwide statistics show that cremations

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are gaining popularity, and we're seeing it to some extent, but not completely.

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We have additional available plots for cremation burials. We've reopened plots on the east

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side of the cemetery. So if you look at the map that you guys can see there on the far

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right is the only area where we sell full casket burial plots. On the far left at the

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top, the more rectangular piece, that's the private section. So that's the Snyder Evans

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family extended family. And the lower C triangle piece is that wide open piece of

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graphs that people often ask, why can't we be buried there?

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And that's one of the oldest sections in the cemetery.

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So there have been burials there.

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Some of those burials were exhumed.

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They were Chinese.

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They were sent back to China.

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And others weren't.

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They're still there.

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However, the wood crosses were burned in a fire.

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So there's no records, and there's no markers.

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So we don't really know what's in that spot.

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So the next pictures are just closer pictures of where the spaces are.

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So some of the reasons that we are not selling on the east end,

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I was actually given that direction when I took over the cemetery.

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It's really hard to look at that space and know that you're not going to come into something

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that was buried close by with plywood caskets.

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They disintegrate, so things move in our ground.

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It's very rocky.

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So they didn't use vaults back then, which we require now.

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Now, vaults make it much easier when you're measuring and when you're digging, you know

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where that is, you know, you have the space that you need.

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So we're not using, that's why we're not using that large section of the cemetery.

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Our plot prices are low, and I know that that was a consideration so that city residents

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could afford to buy plots.

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It does make it affordable when you're in need to buy that plot that you need.

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It also allows people who can to purchase as many as they want because there's no limit so

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That's one of the requirements you have to be a resident of Park City with property you have to own property or

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Have lived in Park City for ten years or more consecutively

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Even if you lived in here in the past and you moved away if you can show that you lived here for more than ten

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years you would be eligible to purchase a plot here if you were born in the

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miners hospital you're eligible so there's four or five criteria but can you

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purchase plots for your whole family who might not have the same qualifying

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status as you do if the person who is eligible is purchasing the plots the

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plots stay in their name and they're able to make decisions as to who's

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buried in those plots.

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Assuming there was someone that met the requirements

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purchased the plot.

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When you buy a plot, you do get a deed that they need, the

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people can't go and then sell them on the free market. They need to sell them back

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to us those deeds. So it's actual. If you bought a couple you might be able to fit a

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tent on them though.

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You're always thinking about housing.

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So we do have other alternatives

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in the cemetery besides cremation. We have the memorial walls. The one question that we

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often get asked is if I buy a plaque space on the memorial wall, is there a place for

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me to put an urn? And there's not. So that would be a niche, and we don't have anything

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like that, which is an above ground space. I have some pictures that you'll see down

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the line where you could put an urn, but right now the only place we have for cremations

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is in the ground. It's the same plot as you would use for full burial. It's just

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that the ones I've reopened, we have deemed not viable for a full casket, but they are

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viable for cremation burials, which are not as deep, and they're much smaller, obviously.

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Is that for people whose ashes are spread where they weren't supposed to be?

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I asked them not to tell me that.

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We don't know.

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We don't know.

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Yeah, so they know that they're only buying a space to place a plaque to memorialize

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someone whose name they put on there.

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Can you put more than one person in a crematorium spot?

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So a cremation burial space is a 2 by 2 by 2 foot cube.

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So you could fit two urns in there,

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or you could put one urn with more than one person's ashes

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in it.

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You can actually put up to four cremation burials

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in one plot.

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Okay. Oh, you put the whole urn in the spot? You don't know. My father-in-law was

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It was just a little whole dug and you just poured the ashes right in

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Into was it a into a niche?

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It was it was at their church in the lawn right in front of their church, I don't know

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But it just appeared to be this little hole, you know, like a little tube, Doug, somehow.

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They probably had a, there's a round tube, and then there's a cap that goes on top that

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would have maybe the, his name and his dates on it.

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Is, are ashes not, you know, compostable or something?

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I mean, is that just not what we, what they do?

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No, they are.

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I think it's reference to not for what people prefer in the composter.

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Sorry,

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Karen. Oh, no, you're fine. It's going to be a long day.

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All right. Well, so once we so right now we have my the report that you have says

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that we have 47 plots left, we actually only have 43 for the full casket left.

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So once those are sold, the only thing we will be able to sell is cremation plots and

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plaque spots.

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And do we have a lot of cremation spots or are we worried about running out of those

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anytime soon?

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No, I don't believe so, we have, I reopened 55 individual plots, which you only sell one

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to a family even if they're only going to put one cremation in there.

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So there's 55 currently, but I've only gone through probably a third to a quarter of

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the cemetery, and so I need to continue through.

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I went through first, picked the ones that I felt visibly were viable, and then Jaren

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comes through with me from the Parks Department and deemed them, you know, those are reasonable

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for cremation burials, and then we open those so that people have choices.

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So there's quite a few spaces for those.

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I know that cremation gardens are very popular now, so that would be above ground cremation

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niches.

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How

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many spots are left on the wall?

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Pardon?

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How many spots are left on the wall?

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There's quite a few actually.

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I have some statistics there.

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I think it's right in your report.

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Let me look.

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So here you can see the stats from the past few

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years.

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Oh, we have 53 spaces have been sold,

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which is only 15% of the total on the wall.

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So it's 338 wall spaces.

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But again, that doesn't help someone

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who needs a place to put ashes.

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And a cremation garden is not what it sounds like to me,

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which is like, oh, just spread, you know.

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It's not right.

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I don't like that.

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So, oh, you have a.

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So those pictures are actually from my conference on Tuesday and those are

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Provo just did an expansion on their cemetery and one of the things they added was this cremation garden

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So on the picture on the left those big boulders

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You can see a circle on them. Yeah, so they already have a core

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Drilled into them and it's as wide as that circle that circle is just a

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It's a stone cap that is placed in there that will stay put until someone purchases that.

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And then they take that out, the ashes go in, and then a probably brass plaque goes on the top with the person's name and inscription.

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And then the one on the right.

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Um, I don't know.

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Go in that cemetery whether all of those are set to be like a family one, but you could use

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it that way where you have the larger block in the back and then the smaller ones in the

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front so they could buy multiple. And on the top of the left picture you can see the building.

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It's just a roof actually like a gazebo cover. And all four posts are stone and they have

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cremation niches on both sides of where you can see the one side. They have them on the

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opposite side and all four, so there's a number there. In their expansion, they put

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15 different styles of cremation niche spaces, because they didn't know what people were

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going to want, and so as they sell, they'll find out what's the most popular. They

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They have lots of room for expansion, so they'll add more in the popular notes.

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That was in Provo?

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00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:58,600
No.

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Provo.

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They're also adding a mausoleum up on the new part of their expansion also.

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And that's for full cast of burials above ground.

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It looked like the number you have left and the number you are selling per year is about

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the same.

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00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,980
So it sounds like we're down to about a year of, I'll loosely call it, full tasking inventory here.

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Yeah, one of the things that we want to talk about was, you know, limiting the sales of these last plots just to people with immediate need.

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So really, those plots that you're seeing that were sold, those are a mix of people in immediate need as well as people planning for the future.

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So if you looked at the number of statistics or the statistics for burials, that's really, you know, a good way to...

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Well, sold in need. The far right column sold in need are the number of people who purchased a plot and did a burial all in the same process.

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us, and so there were only 14 in three years. So if we took those 43 plots and only sold

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them to people with need right then, and even if we sold them two at a time, say, you know,

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my husband died, I'd want two plots, you know, we would do that so that they could be together,

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it would last us a little longer before we would be completely sold out.

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Could

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we do one of those cremation gardens, like the rocks?

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00:17:58,070 --> 00:18:04,310
I hate to say this, but in the area in the southwest corner where we were not doing anything,

233
00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:07,850
would it be at all appropriate to put one of those there?

234
00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:09,950
I mean, it is on top.

235
00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:11,710
That was my idea.

236
00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:17,250
And Ken and I had a discussion about it today, and he's like, well, is that okay?

237
00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:18,030
Yeah.

238
00:18:18,030 --> 00:18:25,870
and so and I'm not I'm not sure but that was my idea was that that was a space

239
00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:31,590
that if it's on top it's not going to impact and we don't have record of who

240
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:35,430
is where well and Karen maybe one of the things that could be done is at the

241
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:41,490
same time see if the is you know a little bit about what used to be there

242
00:18:41,490 --> 00:18:45,830
and work with the museum and come up with some kind of small monument that

243
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:51,270
the city put up that had a little bit of history around what used to be there and then why the

244
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:52,310
space is being utilized.

245
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:53,030
Right.

246
00:18:53,290 --> 00:18:59,450
I think that monument idea has been in back here for a couple of years.

247
00:18:59,750 --> 00:19:05,750
I just haven't had the, I didn't know what direction to go with it or how to get there.

248
00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:06,690
That would be really nice.

249
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:11,230
But that is something that we have talked about and it's a great idea.

250
00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:19,370
Karen, I'm curious. The memorial wall I think is really classy and a good idea, but it doesn't seem to be getting a lot of use.

251
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:26,170
Do you think it would do better if there were accompanying cremation niches somewhere there?

252
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:36,690
It might. That might be. I know that if you have a cremation niche, you have a place to put the plaque.

253
00:19:37,710 --> 00:19:41,670
So putting something like that in that same area might not be a bad idea.

254
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:47,710
I don't know that it'll increase the sales of the wall plaques simply because, I mean, there are people on that wall plaque

255
00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:49,510
that are actually buried in the cemetery.

256
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:55,490
So I don't think there's very many, but there's a few.

257
00:19:55,790 --> 00:19:57,450
Most of them are buried somewhere else.

258
00:19:59,070 --> 00:20:05,750
What is the difference in price between like a memorial wall plaque and a plot and a cremation?

259
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:11,770
Personally, I think it makes sense to raise the prices at least a little bit on the plots

260
00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:16,750
and then maybe incentivize the memorial wall, some of the other things.

261
00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:23,470
So the memorial wall plaque space is $250 and that is just for the space.

262
00:20:23,470 --> 00:20:32,490
It doesn't include the actual purchase of the plaque which they do on their own and the plaques are anywhere if I remember correctly from about

263
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:39,230
Maybe I think you can get them for less than 300, but it actually depends on what you put on the plaque

264
00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:46,270
They're all the they're all the same price even some of them are five by eight rectangle and some are a six by six square

265
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:51,990
So those are 250 the plot is 300. Yeah

266
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:59,670
but the burial is 600 so there's a big difference there and then a cremation so

267
00:20:59,670 --> 00:21:04,530
a cremation they still have to buy the plot so that's 300 a burial is only

268
00:21:04,530 --> 00:21:08,940
$70 we

269
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,520
dig the hole the parks crew prepares the site

270
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,900
If when ours fills up, if we don't do something, then where do they get buried back in Salt Lake or something?

271
00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:42,080
I know that one of our residents who was a county resident is buried in Heber.

272
00:21:42,820 --> 00:21:49,000
The Midway Cemetery takes anyone. You don't have to be a resident of Midway to be buried there.

273
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:59,060
but all the other towns in Summit County have cemetery districts and Summit

274
00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:02,920
County has a cemetery district for Western Summit County for our end of

275
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:09,940
Park City but they've not done anything with that they've not put a board

276
00:22:09,940 --> 00:22:15,140
together nor have they found a piece of property and purchased it. I did talk

277
00:22:15,140 --> 00:22:21,320
to a woman from the county who explained that from the time they made that

278
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,000
board they had five years to do something with it. The state could come in and say

279
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,120
okay it's they could dissolve the district because they hadn't done

280
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,340
anything. I don't think the state researches that every day so.

281
00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:38,260
Just a

282
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:44,340
quick addition the county did when when we back in 2008 when we were doing

283
00:22:44,340 --> 00:22:50,720
the PRI property, they did plan on having a cemetery, kind of near the substation and

284
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,800
Bear Hollow back there. There was a piece of that that looked like it would work well.

285
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:59,080
And it turned out it was, and that was the plan. It turned out it was really rocky and

286
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,440
you couldn't even dig back there.

287
00:23:00,740 --> 00:23:02,460
Perfect for rocky cremation.

288
00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:02,940
There you go.

289
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,760
You know, somewhere in the packet, you'd mentioned that I think both the Catholic

290
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:16,220
and Mormon churches now say that it's okay to they accept cremation and and yet

291
00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:24,140
I would imagine that there's very slow evolution in this industry because what

292
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:29,320
do you do you go to a mortuary or guess mortuary and and of course they're

293
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,700
going to sell you the most expensive option but I did read I heard this

294
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:39,580
really nice report on NPR about green burials and and also all of the the

295
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:43,060
toxic chemicals that are going in the ground with formaldehyde and that you

296
00:23:43,060 --> 00:23:49,480
know if you really look at it there's no reason to do it just to satisfy our own

297
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:55,340
sense of aesthetic around death or something but because it's slowly

298
00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:59,120
changing you know maybe we're up against something like that but I mean have

299
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:05,740
you guys thought of places to I mean maybe part of it's like education that

300
00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:09,960
So let people know it's okay not to put formaldehyde in your loved one's body

301
00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:16,700
And then and then have you guys come up with other places where you could have something like a cremation garden?

302
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:21,720
Well, one of the original ideas that

303
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:25,570
Heather came up with

304
00:24:25,570 --> 00:24:29,730
when we were talking about cremation was to put a

305
00:24:31,290 --> 00:24:36,690
Moving cremation garden along the upper fence line because we have that hillside there

306
00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:43,390
That's very rocky also, so it would be good to have that on top.

307
00:24:44,010 --> 00:24:49,250
It would require putting a pathway that is accessible up there,

308
00:24:49,470 --> 00:24:51,830
and so that would mean, you know, some digging and some leveling.

309
00:24:52,530 --> 00:24:56,670
But that's, we had thought of that area as well as the niches down below.

310
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:04,690
And when I was in Provo and they, those big rocks, those are real rocks.

311
00:25:04,690 --> 00:25:10,910
and they said when they priced out the fake rocks that have the space also,

312
00:25:11,930 --> 00:25:15,470
it pretty much came back to, it was about the same price.

313
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:17,090
It wasn't much different.

314
00:25:17,710 --> 00:25:21,950
So, I mean, a real rock is much more appealing.

315
00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:26,710
I've always envisioned a bike path back there, a little trail.

316
00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:29,230
You could just line the trail with those rocks.

317
00:25:29,910 --> 00:25:31,070
Just kidding, just kidding.

318
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:37,990
Can we go to the items for discussion one?

319
00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:52,650
So I just made a quick list of the things that we thought were viable options for the future to think about.

320
00:25:53,270 --> 00:25:56,970
One being to determine another space within the city limits.

321
00:25:57,510 --> 00:26:02,070
I can't tell you how many people live here that have not purchased plots,

322
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:08,530
but we're bigger than we were so I'm sure there's quite a number and and have a

323
00:26:08,530 --> 00:26:14,230
viable space for both traditional and crematory burials and then start that

324
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:20,630
dialogue again with Summit County and see if they will make a plan to do

325
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:25,230
something or and that may or may not help us or we do it together so that it

326
00:26:25,230 --> 00:26:28,770
is for anyone who lives in this part of Summit County.

327
00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:33,330
At the cremation niches

328
00:26:33,330 --> 00:26:40,510
above ground that might be an appealing thing for people who maybe aren't as

329
00:26:40,510 --> 00:26:44,770
into cremation now because it's still in the ground, who knows.

330
00:26:46,890 --> 00:26:47,890
The fence line

331
00:26:47,890 --> 00:26:58,750
cremation area and then again as we mentioned to look at making a change now to prolong the

332
00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:04,830
amount of full cast of burials that we have left, space that we have left. We'll be doing

333
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:05,830
burials for a long time.

334
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:15,320
It's funny how many seemingly inappropriate comments there are that you could make and

335
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:23,080
And this is just a question, just checking about any of, you know, our open space, the

336
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:28,640
deed restrictions, deed restrictor, conservation easement properties.

337
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:37,180
I mean, is that ever something that's included as a possibility that has to be specifically

338
00:27:38,340 --> 00:27:40,740
delineated within the easement?

339
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:45,640
I can weigh in on two thoughts on the stuff we purchased with our resort sales tax,

340
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,600
it's not deed restricted in the same way.

341
00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:53,760
So there is some carve-outs in the Clark Ranch property out by Park City Heights

342
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,180
that don't have the same sort of restrictions.

343
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,960
Nate might have some thoughts on it is limited to public uses.

344
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,280
We can't do public-private partnerships in that because of the bonding material

345
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,360
and Mark can probably look further into that.

346
00:28:06,580 --> 00:28:09,260
But I think the summer parcel, the Clark Ranch parcel,

347
00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:11,420
So those have been bought with flexible funds.

348
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,060
Yeah, because if you made a really flexible or not flexible,

349
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,460
sorry, the opposite, if you made it very restricted,

350
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:23,340
like it could be used for one of these cremation gardens

351
00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:26,560
and it has to look like this, and that was the only use

352
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,840
you could have, it would be kind of a nice park or something.

353
00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:33,780
What space do you need for something?

354
00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:37,750
There are all sizes.

355
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:44,570
I mean, I think that the ones in the small towns in the county are much smaller than the one we have now.

356
00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:50,690
So we're nine acres, and that's with two expansions from the original.

357
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:53,510
But I could jump in.

358
00:28:53,830 --> 00:29:01,010
Yeah, I think also I absolutely think that it makes sense to limit the sales of the last plots to

359
00:29:01,630 --> 00:29:07,110
qualifying individuals with immediate need or maybe even put a cap on how many people can buy.

360
00:29:08,270 --> 00:29:14,350
Is there a discussion about raising the price of some of the full burial plots

361
00:29:14,350 --> 00:29:20,770
and having, creating a bit more of a, I mean I think that it sounds great to have a cremation garden above the fence line

362
00:29:20,770 --> 00:29:27,050
and the cremation niches and to create some opportunities to have some of those things in that area.

363
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:32,550
It seems like it makes a lot of sense and make those less expensive than the full plots

364
00:29:32,550 --> 00:29:37,690
because it doesn't seem like a very good use of space and especially as we know that people's

365
00:29:37,690 --> 00:29:41,830
minds are changing and it's kind of hard. We don't have enough space within city limits

366
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:59,970
for people who are alive. So unless it's a place that is unbuildable or I don't know

367
00:30:01,460 --> 00:30:04,920
Well, you can't live there. I mean, maybe you could do something with it.

368
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:13,300
Yeah, but I mean, I just feel like our first, you know, our first priority would be to make

369
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,820
sure that we take care of people with immediate need and then make sure that what we have,

370
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,160
we make last as long as possible and create some alternative opportunities and, you know,

371
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,540
if we could make the wall cheaper and get some more movement on that, because it does

372
00:30:25,540 --> 00:30:29,040
sound like if you've only I mean obviously there've been more than I think 50

373
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,060
people or whatever who've died or have had family members who've died in town

374
00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:37,420
over the past year so they have to be going somewhere whether they're like

375
00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:44,300
floating down rivers or you know bottom of the ocean if we can incentivize the

376
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,480
the wall a little bit and maybe move away from some of the other things it

377
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,460
seems like that would make sense and it doesn't make sense to work with

378
00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:54,620
Summit County. The wall might look more attractive if the plot costs a

379
00:30:54,620 --> 00:31:01,760
lot more. I did do that research and I think I was doing that prior to this

380
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:08,140
project coming up or this meeting and I did it with strictly municipal

381
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,460
cemeteries and I didn't include the county ones. The county ones I believe

382
00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:19,560
are very similar in price to ours but in the rest of the people that I talked

383
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:26,240
to us, our cemetery in Roosevelt were the only two, and I found one more at my conference

384
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:34,260
that are $300 for the plot. They go up to $1,200 at a municipal cemetery. So there's a big

385
00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:34,660
range.

386
00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:38,780
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I make, I don't want to make it like unaffordable for people

387
00:31:38,780 --> 00:31:43,920
who've been here for forever, but to create a bigger discrepancy between, you know,

388
00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:48,940
the cost of the wall versus the cost of a plot versus the cost of potentially a

389
00:31:48,940 --> 00:31:57,340
a cremation niche and start to create, especially if it only costs $70 to be buried, but $600

390
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,420
for the full casket burial?

391
00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:01,560
For the full casket burial.

392
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:11,700
So cremation is a hand dug hole where the other uses a machine and several staff.

393
00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:13,220
Okay.

394
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,640
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's something that you want to really advertise, you know,

395
00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:26,700
here are your options, buy your place on the wall now versus this, but yeah, to create

396
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:31,500
some incentives for us to use space better makes sense in the long run.

397
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:38,060
If there's a desire to look at those plot costs, I mean, obviously the fee schedule,

398
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,700
it's all part of the city fee schedule which would get adopted, again, through this

399
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:48,720
budget process and we can, you know, outline and we could go through and look at those

400
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,840
fees. Currently, we try to cover our actual costs for the labor of the burial. That's

401
00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:02,260
why the burial is $600 versus the plot, but if there seems to be, hey, we should look

402
00:33:02,260 --> 00:33:07,180
at that, we can certainly come back as part of the discussion on the fee schedule on

403
00:33:07,180 --> 00:33:08,020
the cost of the plots.

404
00:33:08,020 --> 00:33:12,240
Yeah. Incorporate the cost of expansion and doing other things.

405
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,040
What's the level of interest in that?

406
00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:17,040
I've got a question on that.

407
00:33:17,260 --> 00:33:22,620
I tend to question the elasticity of demand to pricing with something like this.

408
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:25,560
I mean, I think we should be covering our costs,

409
00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:30,460
but I tend to think the people who want to put a casket in the ground

410
00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:32,080
are going to put a casket on the ground.

411
00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:36,640
It's not going to really be determined on whether that plot costs $300 or $600

412
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:42,720
dollars or $1,200. That's just my belief. I think they've made that decision. And I

413
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,180
think we're also looking at something that, you know, we're going to run out of space.

414
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,800
So the question is, what do we do when we run out of space? And whether we delay it

415
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,580
for a number of years, a decade, which we could do by dealing with just immediate

416
00:33:57,580 --> 00:34:03,260
need, which I think is probably the right step, because over the next decade, attitudes

417
00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:08,540
may change, and they may change more toward memorial walls and cremation, and that seems

418
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:12,620
to be the direction things are going anyway, so that sort of helps that process along.

419
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,760
But eventually, we're going to run out of space for burials.

420
00:34:16,060 --> 00:34:20,320
So the question is, what do we do when we run out of space in the existing cemetery

421
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,040
for burials?

422
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,060
Do we want to go look for another plot?

423
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:24,520
I mean, that's the question.

424
00:34:24,740 --> 00:34:25,740
Do we want to do that?

425
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:27,200
I mean, I don't know.

426
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,800
I would let the, you know, I mean, I don't know how to even frame this,

427
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,920
but it seems like the community should be telling us,

428
00:34:35,420 --> 00:34:37,520
you need to go find another plot,

429
00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:41,200
another place to create a cemetery that we can do burials.

430
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,400
Instead of us going, we need to go find another place

431
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,220
to have a cemetery to create burials.

432
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:51,320
I mean, this one to me is not us taking ownership

433
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:53,020
or leadership.

434
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,120
I mean, I would say we need to be listening

435
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,000
to what we're hearing and I don't know

436
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,140
that you could even help us with that

437
00:35:00,140 --> 00:35:01,520
because again, people come

438
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:08,000
and I say, so-and-so just died or I'm about to die and I need a plot, and it's not one

439
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,300
of those things that people do tend to, I think, think about for long periods of time

440
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:13,000
and plan out.

441
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:19,920
Do you know how many of the existing sales are held by people who have bought with, you

442
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,280
know, an intention rather than an immediate need?

443
00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:25,580
Do we know that there are 25 plots that are?

444
00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:28,640
Most of them are with their pre-planning.

445
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:35,860
So in the last two days, I've had three requests to meet with me to look at plots for purchase

446
00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:36,740
for pre-planning.

447
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,280
They all mentioned only two, which is a good thing.

448
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:43,240
And they want burial plots, right?

449
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,440
So you can see the sales versus the burials.

450
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,540
Well, look at how many sold.

451
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,960
I mean, that's the...

452
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,440
Sold 151 and only 39.

453
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:03,120
So, if we can turn those pre-planning into immediate needs, then we cut down on a bunch

454
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,940
and we extend what we have, but still, to me, the question is a little bit different.

455
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:10,840
It's, yeah, we could, we're going to have a problem in a year, or we're going to have

456
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,640
a problem in 10 years, and what do we do with that problem?

457
00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:18,520
Are we to go out and look for another nine acres to create another cemetery?

458
00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:24,160
Or are we to say, that's it, you know, we're done with burials, with full casket

459
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,500
burials, that's it, we're done.

460
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:29,920
You can do cremation. You can do a memorial wall.

461
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:33,260
We've got this great garden that expanded up the hillside.

462
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:36,180
Those are your options, and I don't know.

463
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,400
I don't really have a strong opinion on that, and I guess that's my point,

464
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,180
is I personally don't have a strong opinion on that.

465
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,720
Steve, the thing I just haven't figured out,

466
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,460
and I think it's kind of along the lines with what Tim was asking.

467
00:36:51,660 --> 00:36:57,160
I mean, I came from North Carolina and having my aunt and uncle and folks pass away.

468
00:36:57,860 --> 00:37:02,120
There's large cemeteries in our area that are all private,

469
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,880
and they range from very, very basic

470
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960
to extraordinarily elaborate,

471
00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:12,940
and I can't even think of in the Raleigh area,

472
00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:15,100
which is half million people or whatever,

473
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,540
that there was a truly public cemetery.

474
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:19,660
There may well have been,

475
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,360
but I don't remember like driving by it or anything,

476
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,120
and I lived there for 30 years.

477
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:32,820
So my question is just, is this really, does this have to be a municipality's responsibility

478
00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:39,520
versus, you know, if there's enough people who are looking for full casket burials somewhere,

479
00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:44,240
somebody will take their 10 acres of land and open up something,

480
00:37:45,140 --> 00:37:49,500
and it probably won't be in the city, it'll probably be in Heber somewhere,

481
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:56,120
or can this or whatever just from a price standpoint but is it really common

482
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:02,960
that the municipality really kind of is the only choice in in town or I know

483
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,480
that there are private cemeteries in the Valley I know that all the cemeteries

484
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:15,400
in this area there's a lot of municipal cemeteries in Utah so I don't know if

485
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,160
if it's this part of the country.

486
00:38:20,350 --> 00:38:21,750
Other questions or thoughts?

487
00:38:22,450 --> 00:38:23,250
Back up, back to you.

488
00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:24,990
Well, I can't hear you, Tim,

489
00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:27,450
but I wonder if we went to the public and said

490
00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:30,110
there's only 43 plots left in the Park City Cemetery,

491
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:32,530
would there just be a mad rush

492
00:38:33,010 --> 00:38:36,190
on those before we had a chance to do anything.

493
00:38:37,050 --> 00:38:37,570
Yeah. They will.

494
00:38:39,310 --> 00:38:41,130
So. I like immediate need.

495
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:44,650
Yeah, so I think immediate need makes sense

496
00:38:44,650 --> 00:38:46,510
and will probably get us, you know,

497
00:38:46,510 --> 00:38:50,750
know, at least 10 years and hopefully people will have evolved their thoughts.

498
00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:59,370
But then people will be aware, once you make that decision and it's set down, when those

499
00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:04,610
calls come in for pre-planning, that's when you'll start to hear what our residents want.

500
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:05,890
Yeah.

501
00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:11,250
Yeah, I agree with the in need and I think we should do that as soon as possible so

502
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:13,930
that we don't sell out tomorrow,

503
00:39:16,290 --> 00:39:20,290
but I think there's still, the question is, what's our

504
00:39:20,290 --> 00:39:20,630
role?

505
00:39:21,010 --> 00:39:26,070
I mean, are we to go develop a new cemetery site in our community, and that gets back

506
00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:28,250
to, you know, whose role is that?

507
00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:34,030
It has been traditionally apparently our role, and apparently there's strong precedent

508
00:39:34,030 --> 00:39:36,570
for municipal cemeteries throughout the state of Utah.

509
00:39:36,570 --> 00:39:43,190
But like Steve, back east, there's a lot of options, and they aren't all public options.

510
00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:49,910
And I don't know. I'm not saying that I have a clear idea of what that should look like,

511
00:39:50,030 --> 00:39:53,010
and that's my point. I don't have clarity on this whatsoever,

512
00:39:53,010 --> 00:39:58,430
and I'm just raising the question for all of us to talk about what is our role with this thing.

513
00:39:58,750 --> 00:40:00,350
And I think that's the real issue for me.

514
00:40:00,410 --> 00:40:04,890
If we could determine our role, I think we could then start to create steps to achieve that.

515
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,200
Who instigated the Memorial Wall? Was that like a leadership class project or

516
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,960
something or it was a rab? Mary and Cohn.

517
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,820
Is this something like you have a blue ribbon commission on? I'm just

518
00:40:20,820 --> 00:40:24,860
wondering how you go out and get the feedback on it and the knowledge without

519
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:31,080
having it just be an all-out. I think Karen's right. As soon as you

520
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,420
limited to immediate need. We're going to start hearing from people.

521
00:40:37,740 --> 00:40:41,160
And Karen, as far as from a process perspective, do you

522
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,280
guys have, is this an ordinance change or is it an ordinance change?

523
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:51,680
And so this would, if council gave direction today that they wanted to do, that it would be considered a pending ordinance so people couldn't rush in tomorrow

524
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:59,280
and get plots, right? You would be operating as of today as if they had already passed it.

525
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,840
That was going to be my question.

526
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,620
Because I have three appointments and I need to call back if that's the case.

527
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:08,620
So it's an ordinance,

528
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:14,710
really?

529
00:41:14,990 --> 00:41:15,850
Oh, because it's not planning.

530
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:18,030
It's not like an ozing.

531
00:41:18,330 --> 00:41:20,170
Yeah, and I wouldn't overshake this.

532
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:22,110
We're going to run out eventually anyhow.

533
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:24,590
So it's just a matter of do we drag it out

534
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:26,570
or is it going to happen sooner than later?

535
00:41:27,110 --> 00:41:30,890
So, I mean, I'm hearing from everybody there's interest

536
00:41:30,890 --> 00:41:34,010
in changing the ordinance for limited need.

537
00:41:34,010 --> 00:41:40,390
Yeah, so just offer to you that if you if you decide you're gonna do that and it

538
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:45,090
won't take effect for a while then I I think you'll be done with all the plots

539
00:41:45,090 --> 00:41:51,250
by next Thursday. Well that narrows the discussion then. But part B I you know

540
00:41:51,250 --> 00:41:54,050
it seems to me like there might be an opportunity now as we've been

541
00:41:54,050 --> 00:41:58,750
acquiring a lot of city property for open space and other needs it might be

542
00:41:58,750 --> 00:42:01,850
worth doing an analysis whether some of that property would be an

543
00:42:01,850 --> 00:42:05,930
appropriate future location, and if so, we might want to consider that before, you know,

544
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:11,870
as we work out deed restrictions and determine uses and such, maybe doing an internal analysis

545
00:42:11,870 --> 00:42:16,570
to see if there are any appropriate places, and coming back with that sometime in the

546
00:42:16,570 --> 00:42:16,810
future.

547
00:42:17,950 --> 00:42:19,790
So there's interest in something like that.

548
00:42:20,010 --> 00:42:20,850
I would be, yeah.

549
00:42:21,490 --> 00:42:22,610
And I think the county.

550
00:42:22,890 --> 00:42:23,450
Hold on one second.

551
00:42:23,630 --> 00:42:28,270
The other thing, I think I heard the majority of the saying is you'd be interested in exploring

552
00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:31,250
some sort of cremation garden, maybe up on the hillside.

553
00:42:32,570 --> 00:42:32,590
Yes.

554
00:42:33,890 --> 00:42:36,170
Or potentially down on the west end.

555
00:42:37,850 --> 00:42:38,110
Both.

556
00:42:38,990 --> 00:42:39,310
Down there.

557
00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:42,210
As far as action items.

558
00:42:42,350 --> 00:42:44,470
And also fees. There was a fee.

559
00:42:44,750 --> 00:42:45,890
There was discussion.

560
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:48,430
Would you guys like to increase the fees?

561
00:42:48,830 --> 00:42:50,710
No. I'm okay with keeping them.

562
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:53,770
Even for the full casket plots?

563
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:55,010
We're covering the cost.

564
00:42:55,010 --> 00:43:03,650
Yeah, I mean now the covering the cost was the cost of the actual go out dig the hole in the ground burial part of it

565
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:08,970
It wasn't the we're not part the the actual burial

566
00:43:08,970 --> 00:43:15,150
Those fees were increased a few years ago to cover the actual costs of the parks crew having to dig that hole

567
00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:17,950
the plot price has been

568
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:20,250
What's been the same same?

569
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:32,930
Unfortunately, I've found a lot of folks close to me died recently and that's something that

570
00:43:32,930 --> 00:43:39,010
some of the families hadn't budgeted for, budgeted for a funeral and it's really expensive to

571
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:43,710
cremate somebody or to embalm or whatever you're doing.

572
00:43:44,410 --> 00:43:50,210
And so I can't tell you how many GoFundMe pages I've gone to to have families with the funeral expenses.

573
00:43:50,210 --> 00:43:55,050
And so I would, my preference would be to keep it as affordable as it possibly can be.

574
00:43:56,670 --> 00:44:00,910
Well, let's, let's, anybody want to increase the fees?

575
00:44:01,510 --> 00:44:02,950
Thumb up if you do. We've got one.

576
00:44:03,130 --> 00:44:09,990
I mean, I think if a space on the memorial wall is $250 and a full plot is $300,

577
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:12,190
that there's some room in there.

578
00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:17,690
And also, especially if we're talking about expansion or expanding services

579
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:21,950
or offering other things, like all of that's going to cost money, which is going to come

580
00:44:21,950 --> 00:44:23,250
back to us in some way.

581
00:44:23,350 --> 00:44:27,890
So I would like to see, you know, kind of to Tim's point, I feel like if people are

582
00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:32,610
going to want a full burial, they're going to want that and they're going to, I mean,

583
00:44:32,650 --> 00:44:34,650
some people will pony up the extra money for it.

584
00:44:35,230 --> 00:44:39,510
But I do think that it makes sense to have a range of options.

585
00:44:40,030 --> 00:44:44,270
And so maybe the plot is more expensive and you have the memorial wall plaque is

586
00:44:44,270 --> 00:44:49,210
less expensive and the permission is somewhere in between, but right now there's only 50

587
00:44:49,210 --> 00:44:51,450
bucks between a plaque on the wall and a full plot.

588
00:44:51,650 --> 00:44:55,790
But you've still got to bury the body, right, whether you cremate it or you don't.

589
00:44:55,870 --> 00:44:59,750
I mean, it's not a matter of, oh, grandpa died, so I'm just going to put a...

590
00:45:00,180 --> 00:45:12,120
In the idea of the memorial wall with the pricing of it was that it would be that self-perpetuating

591
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:18,000
that we would generate enough revenue that we would be able to build additional memorial

592
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,500
walls as needed in the cemetery.

593
00:45:23,140 --> 00:45:27,120
So I'm not hearing enough support for increasing prices at this point.

594
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,740
Yeah, where there are other questions you guys want us to make sure and address

595
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,820
No, well, I think the last one is

596
00:45:35,940 --> 00:45:36,840
you know the

597
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:44,640
If there's any interest in trying to engage the county in a discussion and maybe that's part of a discussion of what's our role

598
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,300
In owning and operating a cemetery in the future

599
00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:56,460
One of our biggest challenges as you know people that live outside the city limits in the basin have a Park City address and

600
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,620
they call, unfortunately lots of times it's at that time of need and we don't

601
00:46:02,620 --> 00:46:08,000
can't sell them a plot, whereas when we first opened the cemetery, we had 100

602
00:46:08,660 --> 00:46:13,420
plots that we could sell at a county residence, we sold out of those, it's

603
00:46:13,420 --> 00:46:20,240
probably been six, seven years. I'd like to see that, yeah. Question though, if the

604
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,180
county were to create, they've got their cemetery board and they're exploring

605
00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:26,760
it and I assume that all Summit County residents would be equally as

606
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:33,340
welcome there they wouldn't yeah I believe it's carved out that it was a

607
00:46:33,340 --> 00:46:38,760
sort of a Snyderville Basin cemetery board the district so we would not have

608
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,540
access to that cemetery you would need to they haven't done anything to move it

609
00:46:43,540 --> 00:46:47,000
along so again similar to a lot of things that say it might be an

610
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:53,120
opportunity to have those discussions and to collaborate on a potential I

611
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,140
I think it makes sense.

612
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:56,140
I think some clarification there would be good.

613
00:46:56,260 --> 00:46:58,920
I'm not sure I want to get more in the middle of the politics.

614
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,000
They've struggled sorting through that by themselves.

615
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,640
I'm not sure jumping in is going to really help.

616
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,840
So we might want to find out whether we're welcome or not

617
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:07,180
there.

618
00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:09,020
I think it's the same policy.

619
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:10,380
It would be repository.

620
00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:17,530
All right.

621
00:47:17,870 --> 00:47:18,310
Any other?

622
00:47:19,150 --> 00:47:21,350
The one other thing that got mentioned,

623
00:47:21,550 --> 00:47:24,510
I just want to see if we had agreement was there was

624
00:47:24,510 --> 00:47:29,670
agreement to limit things to immediate need but the question was will you sell

625
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:34,310
one or will you sell two or you know that's in other words if I'm about to

626
00:47:34,310 --> 00:47:39,170
die and I want to be buried next to my wife I have an immediate need but can we

627
00:47:39,170 --> 00:47:46,970
buy two or can we only buy one or can we buy 11 like we can now I thought Karen

628
00:47:46,970 --> 00:47:51,650
it's my thought would sell to would be to and I just never agreed to that so

629
00:47:51,650 --> 00:47:56,950
I just wanted to make sure they have is everybody good with the answer is if you have an immediate

630
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:57,810
need you can get to.

631
00:47:58,230 --> 00:48:01,570
And how do we do this so that it doesn't get there's not a rush on the road?

632
00:48:03,820 --> 00:48:08,140
Again I come back to we're going to run out does it really matter if we run out this

633
00:48:08,140 --> 00:48:13,060
year next year in the following year I mean if we're limiting it to our residents that

634
00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:14,400
all have equal rights at it.

635
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,340
I just didn't know how we prevent that.

636
00:48:28,540 --> 00:48:30,100
Yeah I don't know how we prevent that.

637
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:35,420
Well, I thought I mean the goal is to make sure that our residents end up in the cemetery. So yeah

638
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,140
I guess I guess if our fairs are going to be a run I can we might miss them

639
00:48:40,140 --> 00:48:45,240
I can't do the I can clarify that just a little bit in that the plots that are left

640
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,620
There aren't all that many that are all together

641
00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:54,200
So if I'm gonna buy I want them next to each other not head to foot head to foot

642
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,720
Which is we have many that are like that and we have some singles

643
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:02,780
So somebody's not going to come in and buy 20 because they're going to be all over the place in that.

644
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:10,560
And so, I mean, we may sell them all, but they'll be to maybe 35 people instead of just two.

645
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:25,700
Good.

646
00:49:26,540 --> 00:49:28,000
Any other questions or concerns?

647
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:29,840
Thank you.

648
00:49:30,580 --> 00:49:31,120
Thank you.

649
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,740
Karen, did you ever think you'd be a cemetery sexton?

650
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,960
She's like, when I grow up...

651
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,900
Yes, I got her. I got her.

652
00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:44,560
Good. Good feedback.

653
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:45,840
Five minutes?

654
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,340
Good job.

655
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,960
We're out in the brakes.

656
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,320
We're just going to buy it now.

657
00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:54,360
We've got to take it back out.

658
00:49:54,620 --> 00:49:55,360
We're going to pay a million orders.

659
00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:01,900
Yeah, I've got it up.

660
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,020
We're going to throw you this stuff down.

661
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,340
It's like, you know, I'm not going to say anything about it.

662
00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:10,150
Yeah.

663
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:46,740
I look because I wanted to see pricing.

664
00:50:46,740 --> 00:50:51,280
You're sitting here. In fact, I found out on KSL some of the plot for showdowns all the way through.

665
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:52,780
I think you could do one.

666
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,640
You? You can have mine. I already read it.

667
00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:56,780
You have mine? You're in mine.

668
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,000
Have you sent this to us?

669
00:50:59,160 --> 00:50:59,800
Of course I do.

670
00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:01,740
You can have mine too.

671
00:51:02,220 --> 00:51:02,680
Stop it.

672
00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:05,880
Am I going to get caught in the middle?

673
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,140
Not for you.

674
00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:09,900
Am I going to get caught in the middle?

675
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:10,880
You just need to die.

676
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:12,780
Can I present?

677
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:13,720
Yes.

678
00:51:43,980 --> 00:51:49,780
Thank you. Matt Dias, Assistant City Manager, and I have some staff with me as well that

679
00:51:49,780 --> 00:51:55,600
did a lot of work on this, like Rebecca and Beth Beynum, the Legal Department, Pauli Samuels,

680
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:01,680
and our Transit and Transportation Departments. Everyone sort of pitched in to summarize.

681
00:52:02,780 --> 00:52:08,500
Over the past two years, since the state legislates are preempted, the city's ability

682
00:52:08,500 --> 00:52:11,540
to regulate transportation network companies,

683
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:14,140
which is commonly known as Uber and Lyft.

684
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:22,060
The state preempted our ability to regulate that type of business in town at a local level,

685
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,380
and they did that across the state.

686
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,440
A lot of confusion occurred.

687
00:52:25,580 --> 00:52:30,120
A lot of confusion occurred among our local drivers and people in the industry,

688
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:35,360
and at times people were suggesting that the city should be doing more,

689
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,380
and the city had somehow had a role in it.

690
00:52:37,380 --> 00:52:45,100
Other people on the other hand were very informed and seemed to understand that although we lobbied against it at the legislature, there was really nothing we could do.

691
00:52:45,260 --> 00:52:52,180
This was an affirmative action that the legislature took that preempted our ability to regulate transportation network companies.

692
00:52:52,900 --> 00:53:05,280
The output of that or the outcome of that was it created a very unequal playing field between our local four hire and transportation companies and the Uber and the Lyfts and the Sidecar and the Swifts.

693
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,660
And because of that inequity, it created a lot of confusion and a lot of angst.

694
00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:16,480
At that time, staff came back to a previous city council and updated our regulations.

695
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:25,700
So in order to create a more level playing field, we amended our regulations in terms

696
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:31,520
of type of vehicle, whether it needs to be inspected, what type of background a

697
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,500
has required to try to create a more level playing field with the Uber and Lyft drivers

698
00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:37,540
that were coming into Park City from all over the state.

699
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,880
But even after we did that, there was still a lot of confusion.

700
00:53:41,540 --> 00:53:47,780
And at your suggestion, we created a taxi stakeholder group of which Nan is a member.

701
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:48,840
She's the council liaison.

702
00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:50,620
So Nan did a lot of work with me.

703
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,500
And that's my little history before I get into this.

704
00:53:54,620 --> 00:53:57,640
And I think I should just, I wanted to start by saying thanks.

705
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,020
So, when you do something like this, there's a little bit of an intrusion on people's

706
00:54:02,020 --> 00:54:02,160
lives.

707
00:54:02,340 --> 00:54:06,500
We had four or five meetings that we always thought would take about an hour, but typically

708
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:09,960
Nan and I and the rest of the individuals that were there for about two hours.

709
00:54:10,980 --> 00:54:12,840
And we're dealing with people's livelihoods.

710
00:54:12,860 --> 00:54:16,420
A lot of people have built these businesses, have raised kids in Park City, have paid

711
00:54:16,420 --> 00:54:20,100
taxes here for some of them in 30 years.

712
00:54:20,380 --> 00:54:23,580
And so not all of these conversations were easy.

713
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:25,980
Some of them were difficult and some of them were spirited.

714
00:54:25,980 --> 00:54:28,760
They were always respectful, they were always civilized.

715
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,680
And so I should just really just start by, you know, we tried to make sure that the stakeholder

716
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:38,380
group encompassed a broad spectrum of our transportation industry, and then also had

717
00:54:38,380 --> 00:54:40,240
representatives from the consumer side.

718
00:54:41,100 --> 00:54:46,500
So John Burns was a member of the stakeholder groups, Park City resident Michael Faulk

719
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:50,860
from the transportation industry, Michael Burrell at the time, the executive director

720
00:54:50,860 --> 00:54:53,400
of the historic Park City Alliance, although I think he still is.

721
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:59,480
Sam Rubin from the transportation industry, Ryan Cray from our Chamber Bureau.

722
00:54:59,740 --> 00:55:02,380
We had Rob O'Brien also from the transportation industry.

723
00:55:03,220 --> 00:55:05,480
Anthony Bartholomew from the lodging industry.

724
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:08,460
Katie Bracken also from the transportation industry.

725
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:10,440
Obviously, I mentioned NAND.

726
00:55:10,780 --> 00:55:15,060
We had Lucien Sosnowski and Clive Bush, a resident of Oldtown.

727
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,880
And again, the idea here is we didn't want to leave anyone out,

728
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,420
and we ran an application process for a few weeks where we encouraged

729
00:55:21,420 --> 00:55:25,460
via the media, social media, our website.

730
00:55:25,660 --> 00:55:27,040
We encouraged the public to apply.

731
00:55:28,220 --> 00:55:31,920
And at the end, we ended up accepting every application that we received.

732
00:55:32,020 --> 00:55:33,960
We just figured the more the merrier.

733
00:55:34,180 --> 00:55:35,420
It might make the meetings longer,

734
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,620
but we'd be better to have more people involved than less people involved.

735
00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:41,000
So we were really, really proud of that.

736
00:55:43,180 --> 00:55:46,140
So like I said, we had probably four or five meetings,

737
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:48,480
typically between an hour and two hours.

738
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:53,720
And one of the great parts of the meetings is we were able to sort of level set the playing field.

739
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,860
We were all able to come in and provide a base level of information.

740
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:03,420
We had presentations from our parking team, from our transportation team, from our transit team, from our licensing team.

741
00:56:03,780 --> 00:56:06,900
And we went through, top to bottom, our regulations.

742
00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:11,780
We went through the whole preemption with the state legislature and what had happened there

743
00:56:11,780 --> 00:56:16,460
and how hard you and the city's lobbying arm had tried to fight that.

744
00:56:16,460 --> 00:56:21,320
And then we went through some work with special events and economic development

745
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,300
and what happens with the lodging shuttles come down and what it feels like on mainstream.

746
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,620
This group really, really ran the gamut.

747
00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:33,640
Ultimately, though, we ended up with, I believe, eight recommendations.

748
00:56:35,060 --> 00:56:39,840
And before, so my suggestion tonight is that we, you know, I would have been to you

749
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,000
probably a month and a half ago, but Sundance was coming and everyone got really busy.

750
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:48,420
And we had these recommendations formulated, and we said, okay, let's take a breather,

751
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,640
particularly in the transportation industry, they were about to get really, really busy

752
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:52,240
with their winter.

753
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,240
So we took about a month and a half breather, where I've had these recommendations for

754
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:59,700
about a month and a half, and that we'd come back to you after Sundance is when

755
00:56:59,700 --> 00:57:01,240
the season quiets down a little bit.

756
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:08,360
I would like to say I think that I probably will get some attendance from the individuals

757
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,200
in that group tonight, but it's a Thursday evening.

758
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:16,180
So, there is one comment that was emailed to you for the record that I have forwarded

759
00:57:16,180 --> 00:57:19,760
to you and I confirmed with the individual that provided the public comment that that

760
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:20,380
was received.

761
00:57:20,940 --> 00:57:26,320
I see Michael Falk came into the room who was also really helpful on this stakeholder group.

762
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,420
But so, you know, I wouldn't take kind of the importance of the work and all of the

763
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:30,800
hard work.

764
00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:33,820
I wouldn't take the indication that we don't have great attendance from that

765
00:57:33,820 --> 00:57:36,140
group, that they don't care about it because they do.

766
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,040
They care about it passionately, but they're out working right now.

767
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:39,800
They're out giving rides.

768
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,280
It's obviously spring break, so people are really, really busy.

769
00:57:43,420 --> 00:57:49,100
And Nan, before I kind of jump in on the recommendations, I didn't know if you wanted to say some words

770
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:51,020
or your thoughts about the work that we did.

771
00:57:53,860 --> 00:57:58,700
I just want to thank you for herding cats, because that's what it was many times I felt

772
00:57:58,700 --> 00:57:58,960
like.

773
00:57:59,340 --> 00:58:04,520
And I really applaud you for the way that you organized the meetings and kept them

774
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,000
on track and really came out at the end with some really concrete recommendations.

775
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,100
So thank you for that.

776
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:18,940
And as you said, I mean, I was so impressed with the stakeholder group and the commitment that they showed to coming and offering their input.

777
00:58:19,220 --> 00:58:23,640
And they didn't always agree, but it was always, it was always civil.

778
00:58:24,180 --> 00:58:27,940
And they agreed to disagree, I think, sometimes too.

779
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:29,240
So thanks for that.

780
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:30,300
Great.

781
00:58:30,420 --> 00:58:30,660
Thank you.

782
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:35,880
So tonight before you, I have eight recommendations.

783
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,800
And those are the recommendations of the Taxi Stakeholder Group.

784
00:58:39,900 --> 00:58:45,740
And I will kind of run through them here, but also in addition, I want to note, again,

785
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,300
we didn't always have consensus.

786
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:53,540
This was not always, it was not always easy to gain consensus with 10 to 15 people in the room.

787
00:58:53,620 --> 00:58:58,940
And so as part of my report, there are several other recommendations or suggestions

788
00:58:58,940 --> 00:59:01,240
that weren't recommended, but we put those in here too.

789
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,220
And I'll highlight those and maybe why or why they weren't recommended.

790
00:59:06,980 --> 00:59:11,380
So obviously this is a very, very kind of complex issue, all sorts of stakeholders involved.

791
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:18,000
And what we're looking for tonight is sort of a head nod from council or a policy direction

792
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,160
from councils, more or less saying, are there any of these recommendations that you

793
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:22,400
don't agree with?

794
00:59:22,740 --> 00:59:27,920
Because in and of themselves, each of these recommendations will require staff time.

795
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,660
Some of them will occur amending our codes and our ordinances,

796
00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:34,340
our parking fines, our fees, our licensing fees.

797
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,780
And so there will be plenty of opportunity for the public

798
00:59:37,780 --> 00:59:41,320
and for the stakeholders to come back and provide you input

799
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,180
on when we're hypothetical going to increase the parking

800
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:46,960
fine for parking in a taxi staging area.

801
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,540
So that would have to be something that we do through code.

802
00:59:49,660 --> 00:59:51,080
It would require a public comment.

803
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,080
And so just because you give me a head nod this evening,

804
00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:57,200
I don't want you to feel like you're never going to see us

805
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,900
again. I think unfortunately you're going to see a lot of us because we have eight

806
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,640
Recommendations. And some of these will need to come alone because we're amending our fees

807
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:09,200
or our fines or our business licensing, pricing methodology and other things. So there will

808
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,540
be plenty of additional opportunities for public input.

809
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:18,160
So the recommendation number one, if that's okay, Mr. Mayor, the recommendation was to

810
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:25,820
create a local kind of taxi staging area in front of the post office. We had a very,

811
01:00:25,820 --> 01:00:30,140
very lengthy discussion where we pulled out a big map of Main Street with the stakeholders

812
01:00:30,610 --> 01:00:34,900
and we circled all sorts of locations and talked about the pros and cons of the locations

813
01:00:35,290 --> 01:00:41,820
at the top of Main Street, on Lower Main Street, on Heber, Sweeber, Sweet Alley, and we really

814
01:00:41,820 --> 01:00:46,500
circled around this one area because of its central location, because of the feeling

815
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:50,780
that, you know, at 10 o'clock at night it can feel like it has the most pedexern

816
01:00:50,780 --> 01:00:51,260
activity.

817
01:00:51,460 --> 01:00:54,780
It's the most kind of congested area where people are looking for rides and coming

818
01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:59,920
out of the establishments and that if we could create an area there for our local business

819
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:07,140
owners and operators to have a special area that's just for them, that that would be a

820
01:01:07,140 --> 01:01:08,140
benefit to the industry.

821
01:01:08,620 --> 01:01:12,360
And we tried a little bit of this during Sundance and some of the other areas and I think

822
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,420
that's a separate animal and we're going to discuss that in a few weeks when we

823
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:17,420
do our Sundance debrief about how that worked.

824
01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:21,260
But this would be 365 days a year.

825
01:01:21,740 --> 01:01:26,380
We would be giving priority to our locally owned operators to try this out.

826
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,180
Obviously, if it doesn't work, we have an obligation to monitor it.

827
01:01:29,260 --> 01:01:30,840
We have an obligation to enforce it.

828
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,980
But to try it out, to give them sort of the priority space, the prime time location on our main stream.

829
01:01:38,180 --> 01:01:42,800
The second recommendation was to amend our business license fee methodology.

830
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:48,160
As you know, from Frequencing City Hall, and much of the public knows this, right before

831
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:55,540
Sundance, the finance department probably wincing over my shoulder gets slammed with license

832
01:01:55,540 --> 01:01:56,260
renewals.

833
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:01,700
And it all kind of happens at the last minute, and it requires us to have additional staff.

834
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,960
We bring in staff from other parts of our organization, and we hire temporary staff

835
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:06,440
as well.

836
01:02:06,940 --> 01:02:11,480
And so in essence, we are subsidizing the cost of a business permit over the course

837
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:16,440
of the year although it cost us more during Sundance and the idea would be to stop that

838
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:16,880
subsidy.

839
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,540
We would pick the period of time where it cost the most to issue a license and we would

840
01:02:21,540 --> 01:02:26,520
charge more for it and then let's say in mud season or June when there is no demand

841
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:31,260
and demand is very low we could drop the price so we'd sort of have a seasonality

842
01:02:31,260 --> 01:02:35,080
to the business permit renewal that would reflect the demand for the service.

843
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:37,140
That was also a recommendation.

844
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:43,240
The third one is to increase operating fines, and it kind of goes with recommendation number four,

845
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:44,660
which is to increase parking fines.

846
01:02:45,660 --> 01:02:52,180
We would also look to increase the fines for someone who has found operating a four-higher

847
01:02:52,180 --> 01:02:57,500
or a taxi vehicle with no license, and that would mean they're not an Uber or a Lyft or a TNC,

848
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,400
and they also don't have a medallion or they're not licensed with another jurisdiction in the state,

849
01:03:02,620 --> 01:03:05,820
but they're going up and down Main Street offering rides.

850
01:03:05,820 --> 01:03:07,460
This happens from time to time.

851
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,720
I think it happens in every jurisdiction across the country, but it was a recommendation

852
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:16,640
of the stakeholders that we could be a little bit more punitive here in time to take that

853
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,280
opportunity for people away.

854
01:03:18,380 --> 01:03:21,060
They'd be less inclined to do that if we make the disincentive stronger.

855
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:27,160
The fourth recommendation, which was to increase parking fines for parking in

856
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:28,880
the taxi for higher staging area.

857
01:03:29,420 --> 01:03:32,620
I mean, this is just to go toe and toe with creating the area.

858
01:03:32,620 --> 01:03:37,020
You have to have a strong disincentive to violate the conditions of that area.

859
01:03:37,340 --> 01:03:42,340
And that was a big concern for the stakeholders, is that, A, they were happy that we were willing

860
01:03:42,340 --> 01:03:45,400
to create this zone, but we need to enforce it.

861
01:03:45,860 --> 01:03:49,820
And then if we are going to enforce it, the penalty needs to be strong enough that

862
01:03:49,820 --> 01:03:50,760
it's a disincentive.

863
01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:53,300
They'll probably get a warning the first time, but the second time they're going

864
01:03:53,300 --> 01:03:56,200
to get a penalty that's strong enough that they're not going to want to do it again.

865
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:00,400
And this is, again, to really preserve the benefit to our local folks.

866
01:04:02,140 --> 01:04:05,880
A fifth recommendation, which is, truth be told, sort of already underway.

867
01:04:06,140 --> 01:04:09,480
We already have our special events and economic development team working on this one.

868
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:15,000
But it's working with the lodging industry as an industry, working with their representatives

869
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,220
to improve their operations in Oldtown.

870
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,140
Kind of the efficiency, the parking, decrease idling,

871
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,740
and provide, hopefully, their guests with a better service.

872
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,340
It's no secret that when we're really, really busy, there's a lot of lodging shuttles around

873
01:04:29,340 --> 01:04:33,660
town and they're doing pickup and drops off in around Old Town in our core and it can

874
01:04:33,660 --> 01:04:34,460
cause congestion.

875
01:04:35,140 --> 01:04:39,080
It can also be bad for their guests when they can't get to and from where they want

876
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,900
to go and they're getting let out in the middle of the street and a car drives by.

877
01:04:42,140 --> 01:04:47,320
And so we have sort of a crack team of internal staff that's already engaged with

878
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,220
the lodging industry to see if we can come up with some better kind of rules

879
01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:56,020
of the road training for the drivers at the beginning of the season and maybe even some

880
01:04:56,020 --> 01:04:56,760
staging areas.

881
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,160
So you've got transit and transportation, special events and economic development all

882
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:02,900
working on that now with the lodging industry.

883
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,400
The sixth one is specific to special events.

884
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:15,280
There was a strong request from the taxi stakeholders that often they are a key

885
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:20,100
component to the Kimbell Arts Fest and Sundance and a Fourth of July and a Miners

886
01:05:20,100 --> 01:05:20,560
Day parade.

887
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,520
There are people that choose to not use our transit system or carpool,

888
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:31,200
and they choose to get in and out of the event by using a taxi or a four-hire service.

889
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,980
And one of the complaints was when we are making changes to our operational plans,

890
01:05:36,260 --> 01:05:40,380
sometimes they're required at the last minute that we communicate better with them.

891
01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:43,280
There's been times where we've shut down roads or we've made roads one way,

892
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,240
and there hasn't been a way to easily communicate with our local drivers.

893
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:50,940
And so we've got buy-in with our finance team who's collecting phone numbers and emails,

894
01:05:51,380 --> 01:05:53,500
and we've got a pretty good distribution list.

895
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:58,620
And so this is just a way we think we can communicate much better with, again, our locally-owned operators

896
01:05:58,620 --> 01:06:00,800
so they can provide better service to their customers.

897
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,400
There will be hopefully less congestion, and they won't be caught off guard.

898
01:06:04,620 --> 01:06:07,140
They're not going to get to Park Ave, find out that it's closed,

899
01:06:07,300 --> 01:06:09,520
and then have to find another way to get to the top of Main Street.

900
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:11,240
So hopefully that helps everyone out.

901
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,580
The seventh recommendation is an increase for enforcement.

902
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,840
This is a common thread of the stakeholder group where at times they felt that the police

903
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:27,920
department needed to increase their level of service in terms of enforcing the moving violations

904
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:33,080
in and around Old Town that are congested, double parking, U-turns going the wrong way

905
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:34,040
on a one-way street.

906
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,420
This is probably no surprise to anyone when things get extremely busy here,

907
01:06:39,420 --> 01:06:44,580
can get a little chaotic out on our roads. And as you know, our police department is all

908
01:06:44,580 --> 01:06:49,880
hands on deck working 24 hours a day on all sorts of things, but in particular on traffic

909
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:54,480
and safety. And so they are prioritizing what they're doing when we're at moments

910
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:59,020
of kind of critical mass and the town is the busiest. And so the recommendation here

911
01:06:59,020 --> 01:07:02,880
was that maybe the chief of police working with the staff could look at opportunities

912
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:07,620
to increase the enforcement and whether the chief needs to come back and show you

913
01:07:07,620 --> 01:07:11,620
what that means to increase the level of service by asking for more resources or not.

914
01:07:11,860 --> 01:07:15,240
I'm going to kind of leave that to the chief, but that's a firm recommendation of the taxi

915
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,780
stakeholders and I want to represent that fairly.

916
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:24,520
And then the final one was improving communication, just making sure that once a year we had

917
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,480
representatives from the finance department and from the police department and from

918
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:34,120
special events and economic development just sit down and hold an annual meeting

919
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,180
and I think the recommendation is broader than just this group.

920
01:07:37,180 --> 01:07:43,940
It's going to be a call to anyone that holds a license, a four-hire license in our community

921
01:07:43,940 --> 01:07:49,400
that wants to come, give either staff and usually the council is on input on the kind

922
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,500
of the year ahead, what worked and what didn't work.

923
01:07:52,060 --> 01:07:56,280
I thought this was a nice way to kind of keep it local, that these guys know our

924
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:00,780
city the best and they know how it operates and they know where the points of congestion

925
01:08:00,780 --> 01:08:03,920
are and they know where the points of efficiency are and they've got some good suggestions

926
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:05,020
for us, as you can tell.

927
01:08:05,020 --> 01:08:09,240
And so their recommendation was that we go a little bit broader than them once a year

928
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,460
that we at least sit down and give people in this industry a chance to give us feedback

929
01:08:12,460 --> 01:08:17,700
and that we formally resolve to do that, that we're going to do this at least once a year.

930
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:27,380
So before I finish, I just wanted to be really transparent that, again, there was not always

931
01:08:27,380 --> 01:08:29,100
consensus on these eight recommendations.

932
01:08:30,420 --> 01:08:39,060
We had lengthy discussions about completely deregulating this industry in our time,

933
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,700
meaning not regulating at all.

934
01:08:40,780 --> 01:08:45,320
There are other jurisdictions in the state of Utah that don't regulate at all the for-hire industry.

935
01:08:46,260 --> 01:08:49,460
Conversely, there are others that are more stringent than we are,

936
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,000
and we had a lot of discussion about this.

937
01:08:53,100 --> 01:08:58,140
And there are various pros and cons that you'll hear walking around town

938
01:08:58,140 --> 01:08:59,980
or you received in your written testimony,

939
01:09:00,180 --> 01:09:02,340
and you might hear if you take public comment this evening

940
01:09:02,900 --> 01:09:07,500
about public safety, quality of the ride, guest services,

941
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:09,320
quality of the vehicles.

942
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:12,680
But ultimately, we couldn't bring this one to consensus.

943
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,000
We couldn't get to a place with consensus that we had

944
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,160
to deregulate the entire industry and just let it evolve

945
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,440
and let the market do what it will do.

946
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:26,300
And just like conversely, we also couldn't get consensus

947
01:09:26,300 --> 01:09:31,300
us on increasing kind of the stringency in making our regulations more stringent because

948
01:09:31,300 --> 01:09:35,560
remember about 24 months ago we had just amended them to make them a little bit less stringent

949
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,480
and more parallel with Uber and Lyft.

950
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,900
So those ones sort of worked against each other.

951
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,580
We had, I don't want to call it a faction, but we had a group within the group that

952
01:09:44,580 --> 01:09:46,820
said, you know, what the hell with this?

953
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,700
What the state has done by preempting us is we should just get rid of our regulations

954
01:09:50,700 --> 01:09:52,820
altogether and let the market prevail.

955
01:09:52,820 --> 01:09:55,100
We had another group that said, you know,

956
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,860
no, we actually are willing to be regulated more stringently

957
01:09:58,860 --> 01:10:01,180
because we think it's going to be a safer service,

958
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,100
a cleaner service, cars with four-wheel drive.

959
01:10:04,260 --> 01:10:05,760
We think there's some creative things we could do there,

960
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,460
but we really couldn't get consensus from either group

961
01:10:08,460 --> 01:10:09,800
to make it a formal recommendation.

962
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,340
But I want to be transparent that that was out there

963
01:10:12,340 --> 01:10:16,000
and those kind of segments exist within this stakeholder group.

964
01:10:17,020 --> 01:10:20,260
We had a lot of discussion about using transit lanes

965
01:10:20,260 --> 01:10:25,760
and the transit center and whether the four-higher industry could be concerted sort of a formal

966
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:30,280
spoke of our transportation system and whether or not we could allow them to use their facilities.

967
01:10:31,100 --> 01:10:33,040
We had lots of discussion about this.

968
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:39,420
Our transit and transportation staff was strongly encouraging that we not do this

969
01:10:39,420 --> 01:10:41,580
and ultimately we weren't able to come to consensus.

970
01:10:42,220 --> 01:10:46,980
There are some limitations in terms of the federal dollars that were used to construct

971
01:10:46,980 --> 01:10:51,960
the transit center, about allowing that to be utilized by a private entity that were

972
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:56,920
clearly restrictive, but I think at a policy level to be truthful are kind of technical

973
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:02,620
experts in those areas were strongly opposed. They were afraid of congestion. They were

974
01:11:02,620 --> 01:11:07,240
afraid of consuming, I'm sorry, confusing the public when we're running transit lanes

975
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:13,260
to have cars, you know, a black car with a tiny, with a very small Park City medallion

976
01:11:13,260 --> 01:11:17,640
may not be identified as a four-higher vehicle, and are you going to get a bunch of tourists

977
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:21,960
that are also in their black suburban jumping in and out of transit lanes, and if you're

978
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,260
going to do something like that, you need to staff up, and so ultimately that wasn't

979
01:11:25,260 --> 01:11:27,500
a recommendation, but we had lots of discussion about it.

980
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,100
And so that's kind of what I have.

981
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:35,340
Those are the eight recommendations, and then I wanted to be really transparent about

982
01:11:35,340 --> 01:11:39,540
the areas that there are these groups that think we should completely deregulate

983
01:11:39,540 --> 01:11:42,040
or we should make the regulations more stringent.

984
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:46,240
I mean, again tonight, I think if there's anyone here in the public, I'd be interested

985
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,800
to hear a little bit of the public testimony if anyone is here from the stakeholder group

986
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,500
because I don't have eyes in the back of my head.

987
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:56,880
But we really are looking for a head nod that if any of these recommendations are something

988
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,460
you don't want us to work on, that's what we want to know.

989
01:12:00,820 --> 01:12:01,220
Thanks.

990
01:12:02,340 --> 01:12:06,500
Guys, we're not noticed for public input, but I was going to allow for some.

991
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:10,020
Would you rather we do that before we make any questions or comments?

992
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:11,040
Okay.

993
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:17,980
So I will open this up for public input. We are a little bit limited on time, so I just ask that you be concise.

994
01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:20,160
But if anybody would like to speak, please come forward.

995
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:28,980
Thanks, Ron. Michael Falk.

996
01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:38,180
Thanks for involving me in all these meetings. As Matt has said, I think we've had a lot of good conversation, but not always agreeing.

997
01:12:38,180 --> 01:12:45,520
The one thing that I do want to touch on is for one of the non-consensus points was deregulation

998
01:12:46,100 --> 01:12:52,400
because I think the term deregulation has misinterpreted a lot in our conversations.

999
01:12:53,180 --> 01:12:57,200
There are other towns, as Matt has mentioned, that have gone the root of deregulation

1000
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:01,240
but deregulation doesn't mean anarchy, chaos, no rules at all.

1001
01:13:01,780 --> 01:13:04,460
It still means I'll use South Lake Tahoe as an example.

1002
01:13:05,300 --> 01:13:08,640
They deregulated their taxi industry about a year ago

1003
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,500
in order to help create a more level playing field with Uber and Lyft

1004
01:13:12,500 --> 01:13:16,680
that had then come into their town. They came in a little later in history

1005
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:20,060
than they did here in Utah, so they were trying to figure out what to do.

1006
01:13:20,820 --> 01:13:25,300
To go do business there, you still have to get a business license. You still have to have your cars inspected.

1007
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,700
You still have to have insurance. You still have to have proof of all those things.

1008
01:13:28,820 --> 01:13:31,800
You have to have a place. One thing they do there that we don't do here

1009
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:37,480
is you actually have to provide an actual address where the cars sit at night.

1010
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:41,160
There are places in town there where they're not allowed to have a commercial vehicle

1011
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:42,000
and places there are.

1012
01:13:42,500 --> 01:13:45,680
So it's a combination of modification of the rules.

1013
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:47,320
But that's about it.

1014
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:48,840
It's just like any other business.

1015
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:50,760
They apply for a business license and they do it.

1016
01:13:51,020 --> 01:13:52,340
It's still regulated by the city.

1017
01:13:52,460 --> 01:13:56,660
It's still monitored by the police where the cars are open for inspection and

1018
01:13:56,660 --> 01:13:57,000
all that.

1019
01:13:57,220 --> 01:13:58,560
So it's not complete anarchy.

1020
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,720
So, I just wanted to touch on that.

1021
01:14:01,700 --> 01:14:07,000
Increased regulation, the research that I've done and shared with Matt in the meetings,

1022
01:14:07,580 --> 01:14:11,980
there are no cities anywhere that I've found in the U.S. that are increasing regulation.

1023
01:14:12,340 --> 01:14:17,220
Again, because of the advent of these transportation network companies, they've really created

1024
01:14:17,220 --> 01:14:22,300
an unlevel playing field where they can just operate as they please, in Utah especially

1025
01:14:22,300 --> 01:14:24,040
because of the way they mandated the law.

1026
01:14:25,260 --> 01:14:28,980
But they're more trying to find that, how do we find this level playing field?

1027
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,680
Because what I've seen, and Rob can agree or disagree,

1028
01:14:33,740 --> 01:14:39,860
is our company, the taxi business, has really dropped off.

1029
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:44,260
All of my vehicles, the exception of the ones that don't qualify for Uber

1030
01:14:44,260 --> 01:14:47,480
are left just because they're too big, are also Uber.

1031
01:14:47,660 --> 01:14:48,820
So we're under commercial Uber.

1032
01:14:48,820 --> 01:14:54,520
We – our business this winter has shifted to where we're either getting reservations

1033
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:56,680
or we're doing UberLift.

1034
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,980
There's very few – what we would refer to as traditional tax.

1035
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:05,380
Taxi business on Main Street. That's really gone away as far as our business. Have you seen

1036
01:15:05,380 --> 01:15:14,200
the same thing? Yeah. So this idea that we've got this big taxi group that needs to be regulated

1037
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:19,160
and monitored to us, it's shrinking. And it's, I think, shrinking a lot faster than it was

1038
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:26,860
even a year ago. So in order to keep it from dying, because that's really what it's doing,

1039
01:15:26,860 --> 01:15:30,980
the taxi business is dying and you've got some really great local taxi drivers

1040
01:15:30,980 --> 01:15:34,180
here in this town and part of the reason I'm here tonight is because there's a

1041
01:15:34,180 --> 01:15:37,300
bunch of them couldn't be here so I'm kind of advocating for a lot of them

1042
01:15:37,300 --> 01:15:42,040
that that's all they do are taxi. They don't do Uber, they don't do Lyft, they

1043
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:45,740
don't go to the airport. All they do is local business and local business

1044
01:15:45,740 --> 01:15:50,380
only and there's only hand there's maybe a couple dozen of them left and

1045
01:15:50,380 --> 01:15:56,260
that's it by adding more regulations and and making it tougher it's just

1046
01:15:56,260 --> 01:16:00,400
going to keep that separation going further and further, and it's very frustrating to

1047
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:03,800
try to work that way and see everybody operating in one way and you having to operate another.

1048
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:08,320
The other thing I'll touch on real quickly is the parking or the staging area.

1049
01:16:09,420 --> 01:16:11,420
Post office I think is a great staging area.

1050
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:13,340
I think Rob would agree in general.

1051
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:19,720
The problem with looking at other static staging areas is the town is very different.

1052
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:24,020
At four o'clock in the afternoon, at seven o'clock in the evening, at eleven o'clock

1053
01:16:24,020 --> 01:16:28,120
at night. Transportation moves very differently. What might be a great staging area at 6 o'clock

1054
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:33,500
in the evening, you're going to be in an oasis at 11 o'clock at night. So I think the staging

1055
01:16:33,500 --> 01:16:38,340
area, my recommendation would keep that to very limited. The post office is a great

1056
01:16:38,340 --> 01:16:43,700
one for events. Look at others. I'll wait on Sundance until it's time to talk about

1057
01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:47,720
Sundance. So that's all I have. I'm open to any questions anybody has as well.

1058
01:16:49,860 --> 01:16:50,520
Yeah, please.

1059
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:56,000
Michael, you talk about increased regulation, but everything I see here tends to create a

1060
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:57,880
preference for local for hire.

1061
01:16:58,780 --> 01:17:05,040
And if I were to categorize it, I would say the increased regulation is on others, others

1062
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:14,020
being non-local for hire, trying to increase parking enforcement for, you know, in local

1063
01:17:14,020 --> 01:17:18,660
for hire staging areas, for example, if Uber or Lyft pulls in there, they're going

1064
01:17:18,660 --> 01:17:19,280
to get nailed.

1065
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:24,000
That's increased regulation but it's not increased regulation for the local for

1066
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:28,920
higher taxis. So when you talk about increased regulation do you see in this

1067
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:33,120
list of recommendations increased regulation for the local for higher

1068
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,320
companies? I think that was more of a conversation or meetings that really

1069
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:40,260
didn't make its way in detail into here but to address specifically the

1070
01:17:40,260 --> 01:17:45,080
parking as far as increased regulation and enforcement on that. Two things

1071
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:51,720
There'd be no advantage for an Uber really to stage in front of the post office as opposed

1072
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,040
to 200 feet down the street.

1073
01:17:54,440 --> 01:17:58,780
The way their software works and all that, there's really no advantage whatsoever.

1074
01:17:59,420 --> 01:18:03,940
They can stage right behind in Sweet Alley, they get their request for a ride, they come

1075
01:18:03,940 --> 01:18:04,540
up and get it.

1076
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:06,360
So there's no advantage there.

1077
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:14,240
The enforcement would probably come more along the lines of if you've got a company

1078
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:18,140
that is licensed with the city, with the white sticker and all that, and you've got someone

1079
01:18:18,140 --> 01:18:21,560
who's coming up from Salt Lake and has just picked up folks from Salt Lake and dropped

1080
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,840
them off at dinner on Main Street, they're going to wait around for the two hours to

1081
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:29,580
take their client back, which is perfectly legal and acceptable, but might want to make

1082
01:18:29,580 --> 01:18:32,760
some extra money while they're here. Well, I'm going to hop in the taxi line at

1083
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:37,000
Park City in front of the post office. That's where that enforcement would come

1084
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:37,400
in place.

1085
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,680
I see that as, you know, on a Friday or Saturday night, do the police really have

1086
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:50,580
time to enforce that? I just see that as an extra burden on the police that may or may

1087
01:18:50,580 --> 01:18:58,040
not be necessary by deregulating and having everybody work by the same rules or, I don't

1088
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:03,520
want to say lack of, but allowing everybody to work in the same fashion right now,

1089
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:08,640
Main Street with regard to the taxi companies has a decent flow it really

1090
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,300
everyone has kind of a gentleman or ladies agreement of how they operate and

1091
01:19:12,300 --> 01:19:16,380
99% of the companies and people operate in that fashion I got it you're

1092
01:19:16,380 --> 01:19:21,920
you're advocating for deregulation and by doing so you were using examples of

1093
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:26,180
increased regulation so you're really advocating for deregulation to create a

1094
01:19:26,180 --> 01:19:29,720
level playing field correct yeah okay thanks but but deregulating without

1095
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:34,500
anarchy. I mean there still needs to be a business license and cars inspected and so

1096
01:19:34,500 --> 01:19:36,360
forth. Thanks.

1097
01:19:36,660 --> 01:19:37,300
Thank you.

1098
01:19:37,660 --> 01:19:37,720
Okay.

1099
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:49,260
Hi guys, Rob O'Brien with 619 Taxi. Sorry I'm late, I was in charge of Herman's Hermits

1100
01:19:49,260 --> 01:19:54,360
tonight so I had to get Peter Noons to the radio station. Anyway, I missed the front

1101
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:59,460
part but I did participate and I wanted to say thank you to everybody that I worked

1102
01:19:59,460 --> 01:20:05,320
with, with Nan and everybody it was great. I really like to watch how it kind of

1103
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:05,760
works out.

1104
01:20:06,300 --> 01:20:12,280
My two points I want to make is on the parking, the staging area during Sundance, the brew

1105
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:17,360
pub parking lot, although I thought it was a nice try to say that we never really used

1106
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:17,700
it much.

1107
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,180
It was kind of not really a convenient spot.

1108
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,780
We did like the one at the bottom and we did like the one in front of the post office.

1109
01:20:25,100 --> 01:20:27,660
Those two were helpful.

1110
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:32,200
So on that part that was part of the packet, I just wanted to comment on that.

1111
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:37,680
The only one other thing I would like to comment on, which is about enforcement, what I'd like

1112
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:43,900
to say is that my problem is still the same problem it has been for years, even though that.

1113
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:49,220
And I'm asking tonight to see if you guys could put a little more authority to either

1114
01:20:49,220 --> 01:20:53,420
the police or the people that kind of watch for the stickers.

1115
01:20:54,940 --> 01:21:00,240
There are a lot of people driving around and a lot of companies driving around that

1116
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:04,540
They might have 20 cars or 10 cars and they seem like they have three stickers.

1117
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:12,020
And when I drive around, I just did it the last five days and I had a list of 12 companies

1118
01:21:12,020 --> 01:21:16,780
that I, you know, that all park in town, that all work in town, that would be very

1119
01:21:16,780 --> 01:21:17,260
hard pressed.

1120
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:22,580
I mean, I know there's rules about, you know, if you start your trip from up here

1121
01:21:22,580 --> 01:21:25,500
or from down to Salt Lake and drop off, then you don't need a sticker.

1122
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:27,300
I'm not really talking about that.

1123
01:21:27,300 --> 01:21:33,360
And the problem is that over the last few years I've been having to write a complaint form, if you would.

1124
01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:38,700
And I've written probably 500 complaint forms in my last three or four years.

1125
01:21:39,420 --> 01:21:42,140
I kind of gave it up this last year.

1126
01:21:42,660 --> 01:21:45,460
And when we had the meetings, we said we're going to try to deal with it.

1127
01:21:45,500 --> 01:21:49,460
We're going to make it more that when you have a sticker, that means something.

1128
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:55,620
I even protested by not paying my business license for two weeks

1129
01:21:56,120 --> 01:21:59,000
and said, you know, is it worth anything?

1130
01:21:59,480 --> 01:22:01,600
Why should I pay it if I'm not going to, you know,

1131
01:22:01,620 --> 01:22:02,500
if you're not getting anything?

1132
01:22:03,180 --> 01:22:05,180
I was always going to pay it, you know,

1133
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,800
I'm kind of a law guy, so I'm all for that.

1134
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:10,220
And I did pay it.

1135
01:22:10,340 --> 01:22:12,920
And I have my five cars, they have five stickers.

1136
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:16,100
And I think it's very important to try to say,

1137
01:22:16,300 --> 01:22:20,720
we want everybody to be 100% stickered on this.

1138
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:23,000
And if you're not, it shouldn't mean something.

1139
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:30,640
Now, me writing a complaint form to go to somebody to maybe write them a letter to go

1140
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:34,060
to the company and blah, blah, blah, I'm just saying that does not work.

1141
01:22:34,620 --> 01:22:35,460
It hasn't worked.

1142
01:22:35,660 --> 01:22:38,780
We've given it more than one try and it's still not working.

1143
01:22:39,300 --> 01:22:44,580
I would ask for a different approach if you see a car then have, you know, you call

1144
01:22:44,580 --> 01:22:50,000
them and say, you come up and show us that, I mean, put it back into their ballpark

1145
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:57,260
because we need a change and that change is necessary even though it's March, middle of March.

1146
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:03,080
They've had six months to do that. There are some people that took the void of All Resort Express.

1147
01:23:04,020 --> 01:23:07,500
I don't really want to start throwing names out here. If you want to ask me, I have a list of them.

1148
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:09,960
You know, I'd be happy to go over this or I don't want to do it in the public forum.

1149
01:23:10,340 --> 01:23:17,560
But there are a lot of people that have one and two and seven and eight and ten and twenty that are not registered.

1150
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:22,260
If they park right in town here, you can go down and see them, 10 across, and there's

1151
01:23:22,260 --> 01:23:23,720
no stickers or one sticker.

1152
01:23:23,900 --> 01:23:25,800
So they're 90% out of compliance.

1153
01:23:26,780 --> 01:23:30,980
That is not fair to the people that are in compliance and to me, and I would like your

1154
01:23:30,980 --> 01:23:36,640
help to see this through the police, through the sticker people and the enforcement people

1155
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,300
to say, let's try something different now.

1156
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:40,760
And I would appreciate it.

1157
01:23:40,780 --> 01:23:41,480
I can wait for it.

1158
01:23:41,540 --> 01:23:44,820
I would be sure I can hear from the city on the follow-up.

1159
01:23:44,820 --> 01:23:47,980
but I would like you guys to show that it's important

1160
01:23:47,980 --> 01:23:50,220
because you said it's important before,

1161
01:23:50,580 --> 01:23:51,540
but it hasn't changed.

1162
01:23:52,060 --> 01:23:52,600
Thank you.

1163
01:23:52,820 --> 01:23:53,160
Thank you.

1164
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:56,680
Was there anybody else who wanted to give public input?

1165
01:23:58,340 --> 01:23:59,780
It's great because we're out of time.

1166
01:24:01,340 --> 01:24:04,140
So on that note, let's just start at one end

1167
01:24:04,140 --> 01:24:06,540
and take any additional questions or comments.

1168
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,800
Keeping in mind, we've got some swearing-ins

1169
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:09,760
to do at 6 o'clock.

1170
01:24:10,300 --> 01:24:12,080
OK, just a couple of questions then.

1171
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:17,200
And the number of parking spots in the front of the post office, about five?

1172
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:22,800
And I should have clarified this, and somehow I left this out of my recommendation.

1173
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:29,140
But the concept is, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was after 8 p.m. that we would make this.

1174
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:35,340
So well after the post office closes, so there's no direct conflict with that service throughout the day.

1175
01:24:35,460 --> 01:24:39,700
And to the points that were raised earlier, it doesn't make sense to have that two o'clock in the afternoon.

1176
01:24:39,700 --> 01:24:45,800
but it would really be for that evening crush of dining and concerts and everything else that goes

1177
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:49,480
on a main street. So probably four or five spots, yeah. And we would work closely with the parking

1178
01:24:49,480 --> 01:24:54,420
department who we've already spoken to and who can also help us with the enforcement a little

1179
01:24:54,420 --> 01:24:59,860
bit. Right. And so public obviously is precluded or would be precluded from parking there.

1180
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:06,800
And I mean, you know, people go to get their mail at after eight sometimes. Obviously,

1181
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:11,160
there are plenty of spots around the corner and on the side of the post office, but I

1182
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:17,460
think it's, you know, for some people decades of habit and so we just want to make sure

1183
01:25:17,460 --> 01:25:19,940
that there was good signage and enforcement there.

1184
01:25:21,440 --> 01:25:27,080
And then I was just curious if you learned in this group what, you know, percentage

1185
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:35,900
of our licensed local drivers for hire drivers are also with Lyft or Uber, one of the

1186
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:36,800
companies?

1187
01:25:38,860 --> 01:25:42,260
I don't know. I just know that several of the, and Nan, you know,

1188
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,020
jump in here, Nan, because there were several members of our stakeholder

1189
01:25:45,020 --> 01:25:49,420
group that did both, that were at the same time they were locally owned and

1190
01:25:49,420 --> 01:25:55,040
operated for a higher company, but would also use the technology of Uber and

1191
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:58,820
Lyft and others to augment the income or augment the hours and the number of

1192
01:25:58,820 --> 01:26:02,220
rides. And so I don't know, Nan, if you have a better sense than I do.

1193
01:26:02,220 --> 01:26:05,280
Okay, just curious and

1194
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:12,260
most do most okay

1195
01:26:19,460 --> 01:26:22,920
and then just a mention of when the

1196
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:29,580
lodging industry shuttles you know areas staging areas or whatever you want to

1197
01:26:29,580 --> 01:26:33,500
call them it when they're determined I think that's so important because I you

1198
01:26:33,500 --> 01:26:37,500
know I know that some of them circle through old town and go back up to hill

1199
01:26:37,500 --> 01:26:42,520
side and then come down and and they are the the most egregious violators I

1200
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:50,780
think of stopping right in front of the restaurant that their privileged guest needs to only make

1201
01:26:51,440 --> 01:26:53,120
ten steps before they get in the shuttle.

1202
01:26:53,460 --> 01:26:58,360
The good news here in the animal attest is Anthony Bartholomew, who is a representative

1203
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,740
from the lodging association, I think also agreed that there's a lot of room for improvement,

1204
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,960
a lot of room for cooperation and collaboration, so much so that even though it's recommendation

1205
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:11,840
number five and I hadn't been for you, he's already begun working with our special

1206
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,940
events in our parking department and others to see what work can be done there.

1207
01:27:15,180 --> 01:27:17,100
So the good news is I think we have a very willing partner.

1208
01:27:17,660 --> 01:27:17,920
Great.

1209
01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:21,840
And we also do have Hillside on the agenda for March 29th.

1210
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:24,000
We'll be bringing that discussion back.

1211
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:26,880
And there'll be some shuttle discussion in there too.

1212
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:27,400
Good.

1213
01:27:29,460 --> 01:27:34,320
Just really quickly, one of the big takeaways that I had from attending all the taxi

1214
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:39,020
stakeholder meetings is what incredible ambassadors for our city, our local drivers

1215
01:27:39,540 --> 01:27:47,860
Because they know where somebody can go and, you know, go eat or where they can go and find whatever at 2 o'clock in the morning.

1216
01:27:48,100 --> 01:27:52,900
And you can't get that with the TNCs that come in from out of town.

1217
01:27:53,000 --> 01:28:00,980
And so I think that everything that we can do to help level that playing field so that we can continue to have those ambassadors out there is really good for our city.

1218
01:28:00,980 --> 01:28:09,220
I would like to see us dive deeper and maybe have staff give us some recommendations on how do we

1219
01:28:11,180 --> 01:28:15,060
incentivize people getting their business licenses and how do we enforce that.

1220
01:28:17,350 --> 01:28:18,410
Great, Steve.

1221
01:28:23,050 --> 01:28:27,590
I've got, I think, a slightly different view on this, the norm.

1222
01:28:28,650 --> 01:28:31,330
It feels like we're fighting an uphill battle.

1223
01:28:31,330 --> 01:28:38,770
I think when the legislature said that we weren't allowed to regulate the Ubers and

1224
01:28:38,770 --> 01:28:42,210
Lyfts of the world, they completely, well, it wasn't even then.

1225
01:28:42,610 --> 01:28:48,170
When Uber and Lyft came into existence and became a massively popular thing with people

1226
01:28:48,170 --> 01:28:51,750
for ordering transit, that was step one.

1227
01:28:52,190 --> 01:28:57,050
Step two was the legislature stepping in and saying, hands off, you know, basically

1228
01:28:57,050 --> 01:29:04,470
deregulating that group of people. It feels like we're just struggling and trying to fight

1229
01:29:04,470 --> 01:29:10,690
to hang on to something that's going to be almost impossible or in my mind really impossible

1230
01:29:10,690 --> 01:29:17,570
to hang on to. Because, I mean, to really make this work, I believe it's going to require

1231
01:29:17,570 --> 01:29:23,970
just an incredible police presence to be pulling people over and checking stickers

1232
01:29:25,410 --> 01:29:28,470
inspecting who's parked where and idling and all this kind of stuff.

1233
01:29:29,230 --> 01:29:33,670
And quite frankly, I mean, just given the importance of things going on in the community,

1234
01:29:34,530 --> 01:29:39,650
I wouldn't really want to staff up our police force to be doing this.

1235
01:29:40,010 --> 01:29:44,170
And it feels like we're always going to be fighting against everything.

1236
01:29:46,270 --> 01:29:49,790
So I almost look at it. I think you've got to level the playing field.

1237
01:29:50,010 --> 01:29:53,450
And I think there's things like staging areas, which are a good idea.

1238
01:29:53,450 --> 01:29:57,830
I think working with the lodging companies to get kind of so they don't have as much

1239
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:59,370
traffic impact is a good idea.

1240
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:06,140
I think the idea of doing one thing for the lists and ubers and another for the local folks,

1241
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:12,440
to me it's just going to be almost impossible to manage. And I could be wrong, but I mean

1242
01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:15,360
I'm just sitting here as you were talking. I'm just trying to think through what it

1243
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:23,640
would take to do that. And I just don't see it. And so I would rather go the other way

1244
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:28,260
that says, I mean, you've got to level the playing field. So don't put a financial burden.

1245
01:30:28,260 --> 01:30:33,220
don't put extraordinary requirements or whatever on our local taxis that you wouldn't put on

1246
01:30:33,220 --> 01:30:33,940
anybody else.

1247
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:38,440
And so I almost look at it as going the other way because I don't see how to make this work.

1248
01:30:39,780 --> 01:30:45,920
I know that there's tremendous value to other locals and I look at what I don't do it that

1249
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:50,160
much because I tend to just actually drive down to the airport but I look at what my second

1250
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:55,180
homeowner neighbors do and they don't just like Uber down to the airport.

1251
01:30:55,180 --> 01:31:00,780
They have companies that they've used over and over and over because they like them because they show up on time

1252
01:31:00,780 --> 01:31:05,580
and their drivers are professional and their cars are clean and all that kind of thing and

1253
01:31:05,580 --> 01:31:09,680
That's who they go to for that kind of thing. They may not do the same thing for a you know

1254
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:15,600
Quick $8 ride downtown or something, but I mean that's who they're using for the bigger trips. And so

1255
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:21,660
When I look at most of these recommendations, I just look and go. I don't see how this can work without

1256
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:24,960
substantial police enforcement and

1257
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:31,340
And I personally am not ready to sign up for that yet, so, okay, Tim?

1258
01:31:32,620 --> 01:31:38,600
I think Steve's highlighting a major concern, which is either add value to the medallion

1259
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:43,760
or the business license, which is very difficult to do, and most of these recommendations

1260
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:45,920
attempt to do that in some way or another.

1261
01:31:46,540 --> 01:31:49,980
Number one, for example, you know, creating a staging area.

1262
01:31:49,980 --> 01:31:55,700
the only way we can give value to the medallion is by giving preferred access or lanes or staging

1263
01:31:55,700 --> 01:32:02,000
or parking to the local for hire companies. So that's a big undertaking. And to Steve's

1264
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:08,620
point, you know, once the state legislature unleveled the playing field, it's then do

1265
01:32:08,620 --> 01:32:14,640
we meet that level or do we try to add value to the medallion? Huge undertaking. I think

1266
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:20,360
I think it's been a great exercise for everybody to go through because it's getting us a little

1267
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:22,280
further down the path of understanding.

1268
01:32:23,140 --> 01:32:27,040
So I like where you arrived on this.

1269
01:32:27,180 --> 01:32:31,940
I do have questions about number five, and I'd like a little clarity on this one.

1270
01:32:32,300 --> 01:32:35,980
You talk about working with the lodging industry with respect to the shuttles.

1271
01:32:36,100 --> 01:32:41,280
We've received two emails recently from the four higher community, both of them calling

1272
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:47,680
out additional regulation of the lodging industry shuttles.

1273
01:32:47,980 --> 01:32:51,600
And I am just baffled that this continues to come up.

1274
01:32:51,780 --> 01:32:56,940
I do not believe we can regulate the lodging industry shuttles because they are not for

1275
01:32:56,940 --> 01:33:02,560
higher, yet the for higher community continues to think that we have the ability to regulate

1276
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:04,320
the lodging industry shuttles.

1277
01:33:04,420 --> 01:33:07,000
Everything you said is we are talking to them.

1278
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:08,800
We've got a good working partner.

1279
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:16,200
So it all sounds voluntary to me it doesn't sound like there's any ability to do any regulation with those shuttles

1280
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:19,640
And there's a reason for that. They are not for hire. They are

1281
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:21,200
lodging property

1282
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:28,040
Vehicles giving lodging property guests rides. That's much different than public for hire

1283
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:30,180
Which is the only area we can regulate

1284
01:33:30,180 --> 01:33:35,440
So I'd like a little clarity on that and maybe the lodge or the you know for hire

1285
01:33:35,440 --> 01:33:40,140
community will understand why we can't do anything about those shuttles.

1286
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:41,480
And that's what I would suggest.

1287
01:33:41,700 --> 01:33:43,600
When that little subgroup comes back to you,

1288
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:45,480
that's the perfect time for that conversation

1289
01:33:45,480 --> 01:33:47,000
and for us to clarify that issue.

1290
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:52,420
Yeah, just because we're out of time,

1291
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:54,160
I agree with a lot of what has been said.

1292
01:33:54,740 --> 01:33:56,420
As far as the post office goes,

1293
01:33:56,580 --> 01:34:00,380
I do think that that's going to be a complicated one to enforce

1294
01:34:00,380 --> 01:34:04,620
if 90% of the taxi drivers are also Uber and Lyft.

1295
01:34:04,620 --> 01:34:08,100
there's no way that we'll be able to keep people who are operating under an Uber lift

1296
01:34:08,100 --> 01:34:11,860
even if they have a white decal and they're not. I mean, there's going to be a lot of overlap

1297
01:34:11,860 --> 01:34:16,420
in there. And I do think that we need to make sure that there are spaces reserved at

1298
01:34:16,420 --> 01:34:23,500
all times for locals to pick up their mail, even if it's just the diagonal spaces on

1299
01:34:23,500 --> 01:34:29,940
the side. And then in regards to recommendation five of the lodging industry, I do believe

1300
01:34:29,940 --> 01:34:33,180
that those are also some of the people that, I mean, to Tim's point I understand

1301
01:34:33,780 --> 01:34:39,640
but they are the worst at pulling up in places that are totally inappropriate trying to get their people into places.

1302
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:43,780
There was one pulled up in front of Handel last week and one of our city buses almost took it out.

1303
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,240
And they are not quick because they are often carrying many people.

1304
01:34:47,540 --> 01:34:51,440
So I don't know if there's a way that we can make some areas that are absolutely no pickup, no drop off,

1305
01:34:51,460 --> 01:34:52,460
especially in our intersections.

1306
01:34:53,300 --> 01:34:58,680
And maybe that would help some of it and absolutely no double parking for pickup or drop off on Main Street

1307
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:02,240
and create areas where it's not available to anyone.

1308
01:35:04,740 --> 01:35:12,720
Yeah, and then a big thanks to everyone who participated in the group, in the stakeholder meetings. Thank you.

1309
01:35:13,140 --> 01:35:16,860
Well, Matt and Anne, thank you for undertaking this.

1310
01:35:17,300 --> 01:35:20,820
I think what you're hearing from Council is there's some nuggets in here,

1311
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,700
but we're going to have to hear how they would actually be applied,

1312
01:35:24,700 --> 01:35:30,180
What the cost would be what the effort would be so we can make some choices whether this is where we want to put our resources

1313
01:35:30,180 --> 01:35:33,480
I I personally think there are some good ideas in here though

1314
01:35:33,480 --> 01:35:39,580
So I am interested in seeing how we might be able to make it happen. I have to agree on the

1315
01:35:41,340 --> 01:35:47,080
Lodging's shuttles I look forward to that conversation because I think they are the worst culprits and they are

1316
01:35:47,660 --> 01:35:50,000
Circulating through the residential neighborhoods non-stop

1317
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,380
They are not pulling over, and when they do pull over, they double park.

1318
01:35:53,740 --> 01:35:58,020
Now, I know that's a generalization, but that's what happens when you drive a large van around.

1319
01:35:58,220 --> 01:36:00,540
It takes up a lot of spottings in the streets.

1320
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:02,280
So I hope we can have that conversation.

1321
01:36:02,940 --> 01:36:07,640
And if the conversation doesn't work, I think there are laws being broken that can be enforced that'll send a message.

1322
01:36:08,380 --> 01:36:10,300
But thanks to you and your group for the good work.

1323
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:14,020
With that, we're going to take five minutes and then reconvene for our regular meeting.

1324
01:36:21,900 --> 01:36:22,940
People listen to you.

1325
01:36:26,020 --> 01:36:28,260
Okay, Chief, why don't you kick us off?

1326
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:28,780
All right.

1327
01:36:30,100 --> 01:36:35,760
Mayor, Council, we have another swearing-in tonight for our two newest officers.

1328
01:36:36,220 --> 01:36:41,420
We have one other officer that wasn't able to make it tonight and our victim's advocate that wasn't able to make it this evening.

1329
01:36:41,620 --> 01:36:43,940
And so we will do this one more time.

1330
01:36:44,460 --> 01:36:47,340
But we certainly appreciate the opportunity to be here tonight.

1331
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:51,860
I would like to start by introducing Danielle Snelson.

1332
01:36:52,440 --> 01:36:56,180
Danielle started her law enforcement career in South Salt Lake in 2002.

1333
01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:01,040
She worked as an evidence crime scene tech for seven years and then transitioned to the

1334
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:05,440
patrol division where she worked for four and a half years before moving to the detective

1335
01:37:05,440 --> 01:37:07,980
vision where she worked for three and a half years.

1336
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:13,700
I happened to know from her chief that she had close to 100 cases on her desk at a

1337
01:37:13,700 --> 01:37:15,900
time and she worked very, very diligently there.

1338
01:37:15,980 --> 01:37:21,840
She worked everything from protective orders, threats, harassments, rape cases to

1339
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:26,660
the homicides and everything in between. She has her associate's degree in criminal justice.

1340
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:32,740
She currently lives with her boyfriend, Mike Fackerel, and their two dogs, their two puddles

1341
01:37:32,740 --> 01:37:38,720
Oscar and Stella, in the West Valley area. So we would like to first have Danielle step

1342
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:42,180
forward. And then we're going to now introduce Jackie. Where are you at, Jackie?

1343
01:37:45,580 --> 01:37:46,080
I would

1344
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,560
like to preface this by saying I'm very good friends with both of their chiefs

1345
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:53,280
or was very good friends, but we keep stealing their officers. So right now I don't know

1346
01:37:53,280 --> 01:38:01,220
what our relationship is. Both of these officers were very valued in their agencies they came

1347
01:38:01,220 --> 01:38:06,860
from. Jackie Bittner comes to us from Layton City Police Department, which was my former

1348
01:38:06,860 --> 01:38:12,420
department at one point in time. She worked there for 10 years, was a detective, a field

1349
01:38:12,420 --> 01:38:17,680
training officer, a defensive tactics instructor, a taser instructor, a patrol sergeant for

1350
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:23,720
two years, Jackie was also a captain of the United States Air Force Security Forces. She

1351
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:29,100
holds a master's degree and she has one son by the name of Gregory who's currently going

1352
01:38:29,100 --> 01:38:34,400
through civil engineering at the University of Utah. So we are very, and the rest of

1353
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:40,260
her family resides in New Jersey. All right. So we're very happy and very honored to

1354
01:38:40,260 --> 01:38:45,040
have both of these officers join Park City Police Department. With that, Mayor.

1355
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:45,920
The

1356
01:39:24,260 --> 01:39:30,880
United States and the Constitution, the State of Utah, and the Constitution, the State of Utah.

1357
01:39:31,440 --> 01:39:36,460
And then I will discharge the duties of my office with fidelity.

1358
01:41:18,520 --> 01:41:25,260
We have a special guest here, so we are going to pull an audible and welcome Representative

1359
01:41:25,260 --> 01:41:27,260
Tim Quinn up to the front.

1360
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:28,060
Would

1361
01:41:36,730 --> 01:41:37,910
you prefer me here or here, Mayor?

1362
01:41:38,290 --> 01:41:39,330
Where are you more comfortable?

1363
01:41:39,970 --> 01:41:41,270
You can have my seat if you want.

1364
01:41:41,530 --> 01:41:42,670
I would not be comfortable there.

1365
01:41:43,810 --> 01:41:46,970
Before you start, though, I just want to give you a hearty thank you.

1366
01:41:47,550 --> 01:41:52,990
You worked very hard on our behalf this session and stood up for local authority, and we deeply

1367
01:41:52,990 --> 01:41:54,970
appreciate that, so great work.

1368
01:41:55,550 --> 01:41:56,590
You're more than welcome.

1369
01:41:56,710 --> 01:42:00,590
I would like to just say to the rest of the council, I had several conversations

1370
01:42:00,590 --> 01:42:06,990
with your mayor and with Matt concerning this bill about the plastic bag band, and

1371
01:42:06,990 --> 01:42:10,730
I had gone over with them the language that I would use in my argument.

1372
01:42:11,150 --> 01:42:15,650
So I don't want anybody here to think that I was actually calling you dumb when I said

1373
01:42:15,650 --> 01:42:20,030
this is a dumb ban, but I'm going to fight for their right to be dumb.

1374
01:42:20,450 --> 01:42:21,810
We had gone over that language.

1375
01:42:21,950 --> 01:42:25,850
I thought it would work best and the results were good.

1376
01:42:26,090 --> 01:42:28,530
But I do want to make sure I clarify that.

1377
01:42:29,190 --> 01:42:30,290
It was to prove a point.

1378
01:42:31,550 --> 01:42:32,830
What would you like me to talk about?

1379
01:42:33,070 --> 01:42:34,910
Or I can take questions, either way, Mayor.

1380
01:42:35,470 --> 01:42:39,010
Would you like to just give us a little recap how you felt the session went

1381
01:42:39,010 --> 01:42:43,610
and what you feel we accomplished and maybe what you want to work on next time around?

1382
01:42:45,570 --> 01:42:49,410
As a whole, just for me personally, I think the session was a little frustrating.

1383
01:42:50,010 --> 01:42:55,270
That had more to do with process than what we accomplished or didn't accomplish.

1384
01:42:56,510 --> 01:43:01,970
There were some key bills that I think affects the state statewide.

1385
01:43:01,970 --> 01:43:08,450
The transportation bill, SB 136, that really changed the governance of UTA.

1386
01:43:09,470 --> 01:43:14,470
There's some serious issues and problems with the current way that UTA has ran,

1387
01:43:14,610 --> 01:43:18,350
and we think we've addressed many of those issues in that bill.

1388
01:43:19,790 --> 01:43:24,570
One of the more frustrating parts, and I may be shooting my nose off despite my face here in this meeting,

1389
01:43:24,690 --> 01:43:30,490
but we had $643 million of new revenue this year

1390
01:43:30,490 --> 01:43:33,070
because the economy in Utah is doing so well.

1391
01:43:33,590 --> 01:43:39,930
We're growing at a rapid pace between those two different reasons.

1392
01:43:40,110 --> 01:43:44,650
We had $643 million, and then we raised taxes as well.

1393
01:43:44,910 --> 01:43:46,490
And I fought the tax hike.

1394
01:43:47,190 --> 01:43:51,630
It's a property tax hike that will, in my opinion, negatively affect

1395
01:43:51,630 --> 01:43:53,910
both the school districts that I represent,

1396
01:43:54,090 --> 01:43:56,110
Park City School District and Wasatch School District.

1397
01:43:56,650 --> 01:43:59,490
We're considered, you guys are the wealthiest school district by far.

1398
01:44:00,070 --> 01:44:04,250
Watsats, I think, is number five out of the 41 school districts, as far as wealth is concerned.

1399
01:44:05,130 --> 01:44:11,830
With the basic levy freeze, I think that our two counties in particular have property

1400
01:44:11,830 --> 01:44:15,310
values that rise at a faster rate and ratio than the rest of the state.

1401
01:44:15,930 --> 01:44:20,750
So our property taxes are going to be increased at a higher pace or a faster pace than the

1402
01:44:20,750 --> 01:44:23,910
rest of the state, but yet our two districts will not receive any of that money.

1403
01:44:24,530 --> 01:44:27,430
It'll go to other districts for an equalization mechanism.

1404
01:44:27,990 --> 01:44:29,410
I fought that for two reasons.

1405
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:32,410
One, because I don't think it was good for the districts that I represent,

1406
01:44:32,550 --> 01:44:37,130
but on the second point, we are the most equalized state in the country.

1407
01:44:38,130 --> 01:44:41,550
Our WPU, and that's not to say it's perfect by any means,

1408
01:44:42,030 --> 01:44:45,530
but our WPU is the most equalizing measure of any state in the country,

1409
01:44:46,110 --> 01:44:48,630
and we start toying with that to equalize it greater,

1410
01:44:48,710 --> 01:44:51,350
and I'm just afraid that we're going to have some unintended consequences

1411
01:44:51,350 --> 01:44:53,330
that won't be good for our education system.

1412
01:44:53,330 --> 01:44:59,710
Speaking of education, we did fund quite a bit of money to education, not only to handle

1413
01:44:59,710 --> 01:44:59,970
growth.

1414
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:08,780
Both, but additional dollars to help with teacher salaries and classroom size reductions. Because

1415
01:45:08,780 --> 01:45:12,600
of the tax hike that went through, I guess, even though I voted against it, one of the

1416
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:17,680
good things that will come out of it is there's two components to that property tax hike. The

1417
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:23,360
second component, both Park City and Wasatch, will receive some additional dollars from

1418
01:45:23,360 --> 01:45:29,740
that. I think that the goal is to have about a 6.9 between those two metrics or

1419
01:45:29,740 --> 01:45:34,740
matrices will have about a 6.9 percent WPU increase for the next five years

1420
01:45:34,740 --> 01:45:38,540
ongoing. So that will be good for education and teacher salaries and

1421
01:45:38,540 --> 01:45:45,900
classroom reductions. So there were 534 bills passed. Not a number I'm extremely

1422
01:45:45,900 --> 01:45:50,020
proud of. I think that may be too many, particularly how we passed so many of

1423
01:45:50,020 --> 01:45:55,260
last four days of the session, but as you mentioned earlier, in the last hour and a half

1424
01:45:55,260 --> 01:45:57,080
we were able to defeat at least one of those bills.

1425
01:45:58,040 --> 01:45:58,580
Thank you.

1426
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:00,700
And it was fun, besides that.

1427
01:46:02,060 --> 01:46:03,000
We had a good time.

1428
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:06,100
Any questions from you guys?

1429
01:46:08,390 --> 01:46:08,610
Question?

1430
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:09,070
Yeah.

1431
01:46:09,470 --> 01:46:09,670
Go ahead.

1432
01:46:09,810 --> 01:46:12,050
Well, not so much a question, but a comment.

1433
01:46:12,370 --> 01:46:17,250
I never stay up until 11 o'clock at night unless, you know, at the odd time I binge

1434
01:46:17,250 --> 01:46:25,650
watching some Netflix program, but I stayed up, and I watched live streamed the legislative

1435
01:46:25,650 --> 01:46:33,130
session that last hour, and it was so entertaining, and your presentation just before the vote

1436
01:46:33,130 --> 01:46:34,130
was priceless.

1437
01:46:35,230 --> 01:46:39,490
I mean, I just kept telling people the next day, you got to look this up.

1438
01:46:39,590 --> 01:46:41,110
You got to go back and look it up.

1439
01:46:41,110 --> 01:46:49,450
So I thank you for your consistent application of the notion that what we do locally is really

1440
01:46:49,450 --> 01:46:56,890
important to who we are locally and I think really making the legislature kind of understand

1441
01:46:56,890 --> 01:47:05,390
that a town like Park City of 8,000 people has big city problems when on any given weekend

1442
01:47:05,390 --> 01:47:10,150
can we have 40,000 to 70,000 people, extra people in town.

1443
01:47:10,290 --> 01:47:13,170
So that was a great thing to drive home about the,

1444
01:47:13,190 --> 01:47:16,030
the triple B, the bag ban ban.

1445
01:47:16,950 --> 01:47:17,830
So thank you.

1446
01:47:17,870 --> 01:47:21,310
I had texted Matt earlier in the day to ask those numbers.

1447
01:47:21,350 --> 01:47:23,370
So I hope I got them close to right

1448
01:47:23,370 --> 01:47:25,070
as to what you guys deal with as far as

1449
01:47:25,070 --> 01:47:27,270
an influx of population on a daily basis.

1450
01:47:27,570 --> 01:47:29,410
So it was just to help drive the point

1451
01:47:29,410 --> 01:47:31,250
that you're dealing with not just your residents,

1452
01:47:31,430 --> 01:47:34,190
you're dealing with five to eight times

1453
01:47:34,190 --> 01:47:41,670
your number of residents. And if we couldn't allow you to do something as small as a plastic

1454
01:47:41,670 --> 01:47:46,470
bag band, then we ought to dismantle all cities and just run it from Salt Lake, which no one

1455
01:47:46,470 --> 01:47:46,950
wants to do.

1456
01:47:47,170 --> 01:47:50,630
Right. I think there were a few people that wanted to do that when you said that.

1457
01:47:51,490 --> 01:47:56,510
You know, Mayor, I actually heard after we broke right after that, we sauntered

1458
01:47:56,510 --> 01:48:00,450
for a moment right after that vote. And so a lot of people were coming up and talking

1459
01:48:00,450 --> 01:48:04,890
talking about that issue, that bill, the speech that I had given on the floor.

1460
01:48:05,710 --> 01:48:11,430
And some people said, just to be honest with you, we only voted yes because it was Park

1461
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:11,690
City.

1462
01:48:12,330 --> 01:48:15,970
And sometimes I have to deal with that down there, that I have to be careful not to make

1463
01:48:15,970 --> 01:48:21,490
it a Park City issue, but make it a philosophical issue, an ideology issue, because some people

1464
01:48:21,490 --> 01:48:26,090
will vote, unfortunately, some people will vote one way or the other, just because

1465
01:48:26,090 --> 01:48:31,350
which, it's not always Park City, there's others, but just because the, hi, I didn't

1466
01:48:31,350 --> 01:48:34,630
ever recognize you there. Good to see you. She's my neighbor.

1467
01:48:36,770 --> 01:48:39,050
So I just wanted to maybe

1468
01:48:39,050 --> 01:48:43,130
remove some of the Park City's side of that and just say this is about local government

1469
01:48:43,130 --> 01:48:45,650
control and this is something we ought to let them control, yes.

1470
01:48:46,030 --> 01:48:50,250
Keep fighting for the food tax, getting rid of that. I know it's an uphill battle,

1471
01:48:50,270 --> 01:48:54,590
but it's the right thing to do and I appreciate it and you got close.

1472
01:48:55,190 --> 01:49:03,130
We had success in the house 42 to 27 and everyone said that we couldn't do that and it was a it was a position that

1473
01:49:03,570 --> 01:49:12,530
my party didn't agree with the leadership of the party but I thought as I said many times in the committee hearings and on the floor

1474
01:49:13,190 --> 01:49:20,050
to me it wasn't an economic issue it was a moral issue and I thought it was the right thing to do and if I get to go back I'll run the bill again

1475
01:49:20,050 --> 01:49:25,850
And there's about six or seven Senate seats that will be changing.

1476
01:49:26,470 --> 01:49:30,190
So I'm hoping that there will be some more like-minded people in the Senate

1477
01:49:30,190 --> 01:49:31,690
that will at least give it a shot on the floor.

1478
01:49:32,730 --> 01:49:33,150
So.

1479
01:49:34,290 --> 01:49:36,270
Any predictions what we'll see next year?

1480
01:49:38,410 --> 01:49:39,770
With legislature in general?

1481
01:49:39,950 --> 01:49:40,170
Yeah.

1482
01:49:42,670 --> 01:49:43,390
It'll be different.

1483
01:49:43,610 --> 01:49:44,250
I can tell you that.

1484
01:49:44,430 --> 01:49:48,370
There's 19, sorry, 18 members of the House of Representatives

1485
01:49:48,370 --> 01:49:50,470
that are not running for reelection.

1486
01:49:51,190 --> 01:49:57,570
Some of those are running for state senate, one's running for US senate and some many are just retiring.

1487
01:49:58,090 --> 01:50:01,350
So it will be different from that perspective. There will be a large freshman class.

1488
01:50:03,350 --> 01:50:11,610
I think we'll continue to tinker with income taxes across the state and tax restructuring, rebalancing across the state.

1489
01:50:11,750 --> 01:50:17,850
Income tax is doing very, very well. Sales tax and transportation tax, fuel tax is lagging.

1490
01:50:19,110 --> 01:50:24,750
That's part of the reason they wanted to have a property tax increase is to kind of shore up one of the other legs

1491
01:50:24,750 --> 01:50:27,590
since income tax is doing so well and the others are lagging behind.

1492
01:50:27,810 --> 01:50:32,550
But it's a little early to kind of get a feel for what issues will be the big issues.

1493
01:50:32,770 --> 01:50:35,770
But we'll see. We'll see.

1494
01:50:37,030 --> 01:50:39,730
Great. Well thank you again for your great work.

1495
01:50:40,070 --> 01:50:44,430
You're more than welcome and thank you for the opportunity to come and visit with you guys for a little bit tonight.

1496
01:50:44,430 --> 01:50:45,290
Thank you.

1497
01:50:45,950 --> 01:50:46,210
Okay.

1498
01:50:46,510 --> 01:50:47,330
Let's give them some more applause.

1499
01:50:47,630 --> 01:50:47,750
One more.

1500
01:50:58,690 --> 01:50:59,050
Okay.

1501
01:51:00,430 --> 01:51:02,670
Next up is communications from council.

1502
01:51:04,290 --> 01:51:04,670
Becca?

1503
01:51:05,330 --> 01:51:11,090
Yeah, I had a really light week, but I did just want to acknowledge the students from

1504
01:51:11,090 --> 01:51:16,770
the high school and Ecker Hill and Treasure Mountain for their walkouts this week.

1505
01:51:17,130 --> 01:51:23,770
And it seemed like it went very smoothly and everybody was very respectful and I'm

1506
01:51:23,770 --> 01:51:24,410
just very proud.

1507
01:51:24,410 --> 01:51:29,350
I got a little choked up watching the coverage and just seeing all you guys go out there and stand up for something

1508
01:51:29,350 --> 01:51:32,110
so for everybody who's here tonight, great job.

1509
01:51:32,430 --> 01:51:37,110
And you definitely have a voice and you should use it and I'm proud of you.

1510
01:51:37,470 --> 01:51:37,870
Thank you.

1511
01:51:39,510 --> 01:51:43,510
I know I've been telling you all for a number of months about the relationship between

1512
01:51:43,510 --> 01:51:47,970
Mountain Lands Community Housing Trust and the county and how it was deteriorating.

1513
01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:52,370
There's been a significant change in shift and they're on much better ground.

1514
01:51:52,370 --> 01:51:56,950
And amazing what can happen in one month, but I think a lot of clarity was brought to

1515
01:51:56,950 --> 01:52:00,790
the process, the right people sat down at the table and things have improved dramatically.

1516
01:52:01,050 --> 01:52:02,150
That's the only thing I have to say.

1517
01:52:02,210 --> 01:52:03,570
That was my one board meeting.

1518
01:52:07,910 --> 01:52:08,050
Mayor?

1519
01:52:09,670 --> 01:52:14,270
Well, Steve treated me to lunch at the senior center this week so that he could learn

1520
01:52:14,270 --> 01:52:15,990
a little bit more about what goes on over there.

1521
01:52:16,510 --> 01:52:21,090
And I was surprised to learn that they just ran numbers, and now they are up

1522
01:52:21,090 --> 01:52:26,810
to 45% of the people attending our Park City residents that live in O6O, which is up quite

1523
01:52:26,810 --> 01:52:31,350
a bit, but attended a couple more meetings, but that was the highlight of the week.

1524
01:52:31,670 --> 01:52:36,430
Well, and we had chicken and mashed potatoes, which apparently wasn't the best meal to have,

1525
01:52:36,750 --> 01:52:42,290
but they made it clear to me, but I don't know what the best one to have is.

1526
01:52:43,350 --> 01:52:45,610
Did they pull sharky?

1527
01:52:46,550 --> 01:52:48,730
I watched some, but I stayed out of it.

1528
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:49,350
They did puzzles.

1529
01:52:49,570 --> 01:52:50,150
I did puzzles.

1530
01:52:50,150 --> 01:52:51,190
smart and safer.

1531
01:52:55,230 --> 01:52:59,610
On Monday night I attended Pando Labs.

1532
01:53:00,490 --> 01:53:08,310
They do every other Monday course for Spanish-speaking people in the community who are also entrepreneurs

1533
01:53:08,310 --> 01:53:13,630
and it's a little course about whatever the theme of the evening is.

1534
01:53:13,810 --> 01:53:18,070
In this case it was marketing your business and it was delightful.

1535
01:53:18,070 --> 01:53:19,970
It was a wonderful course.

1536
01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:23,990
There was a guest speaker who is one of the,

1537
01:53:24,130 --> 01:53:26,450
I think, founding members of the brewery.

1538
01:53:26,550 --> 01:53:30,050
And I forget if it's Shades of Ale or Shades of Pale.

1539
01:53:30,470 --> 01:53:30,790
Pale.

1540
01:53:31,270 --> 01:53:31,570
Pale.

1541
01:53:31,870 --> 01:53:32,530
Okay, thank you.

1542
01:53:33,030 --> 01:53:36,590
And she is also Hispanic of Hispanic origin.

1543
01:53:36,830 --> 01:53:42,450
And so it was pretty fun because she didn't know some of the terms,

1544
01:53:43,150 --> 01:53:45,350
the marketing terms, what they would be in Spanish,

1545
01:53:45,410 --> 01:53:47,030
even though she's a native Spanish speaker.

1546
01:53:47,030 --> 01:53:55,350
and it was just very helpful and a wonderful experience and very helpful and really nice

1547
01:53:55,350 --> 01:54:01,270
about 15 people attended and there was some great information passed on there.

1548
01:54:01,830 --> 01:54:05,670
Is this when I do a disclosure mark or before the agenda item?

1549
01:54:06,410 --> 01:54:09,410
On this one, why don't you do it right before just because it's so far down?

1550
01:54:09,770 --> 01:54:10,250
Okay, great.

1551
01:54:11,030 --> 01:54:11,410
That's all?

1552
01:54:15,430 --> 01:54:24,590
school and across the nation. Wow, I was only able to drive by really slowly, and wow, it was moving and way to go.

1553
01:54:26,190 --> 01:54:29,910
Well, I'm looking forward to your public input and hearing what you have to say tonight.

1554
01:54:30,470 --> 01:54:35,570
But my week was a relatively light week. It's nice to not have any crises for a week.

1555
01:54:35,690 --> 01:54:39,190
I was able to start meeting with some individual citizens and some small groups.

1556
01:54:39,190 --> 01:54:44,970
I do have one announcement that you might have heard, but the USOC, the Olympic Committee,

1557
01:54:45,650 --> 01:54:49,650
has announced that they are going to go into what's called a dialogue phase, which means

1558
01:54:49,650 --> 01:54:56,210
they're going to consider Salt Lake, Denver, and South Lake Tahoe to be – to allow us

1559
01:54:56,210 --> 01:54:57,250
to put an Olympic bid.

1560
01:54:57,810 --> 01:55:01,750
So we have a couple of months to pull that together, and we will hear more from them

1561
01:55:01,750 --> 01:55:02,430
in September.

1562
01:55:02,630 --> 01:55:03,950
They will narrow it down to one.

1563
01:55:04,350 --> 01:55:08,090
So I think that kicks off our need to have a community conversation on this.

1564
01:55:08,090 --> 01:55:09,790
So sometime in the next month or two,

1565
01:55:09,850 --> 01:55:11,430
we need to pull everybody together

1566
01:55:11,430 --> 01:55:13,770
and talk about whether we might want to host another games.

1567
01:55:14,590 --> 01:55:16,350
And then one other item,

1568
01:55:16,970 --> 01:55:19,890
I think probably before we reconvene,

1569
01:55:20,010 --> 01:55:21,510
this council will be having a baby.

1570
01:55:22,470 --> 01:55:23,350
So, yeah.

1571
01:55:25,250 --> 01:55:27,710
If not, we'll have a very crumpled council member.

1572
01:55:30,220 --> 01:55:34,220
So Becca, I just want to wish you the best of luck.

1573
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:35,720
We're very excited for you

1574
01:55:35,720 --> 01:55:51,600
and we can't wait to to share in your joy and with that we will move on to any

1575
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:58,300
questions on the staff communications okay then we will open the public

1576
01:55:58,300 --> 01:56:02,320
hearing so anybody from the public that would like to comment on an item not on

1577
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:04,760
the agenda tonight please step forward I'm

1578
01:56:13,010 --> 01:56:15,070
Mike I've never done this before am

1579
01:56:15,070 --> 01:56:16,570
Am I supposed to put my name down here?

1580
01:56:17,310 --> 01:56:18,130
Yep, okay.

1581
01:56:22,370 --> 01:56:23,550
Just pretend we're the jury.

1582
01:56:24,350 --> 01:56:25,110
No problem.

1583
01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:35,380
Good evening.

1584
01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:37,940
For the record, I'm Mike Worrell,

1585
01:56:38,220 --> 01:56:40,720
and honestly, tonight,

1586
01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:43,140
I am speaking to you with three hats on.

1587
01:56:43,880 --> 01:56:46,120
One is, obviously, I am married

1588
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:48,700
and proudly married to Nan Worrell, our council member.

1589
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:51,560
My second half is I'm proud to be

1590
01:56:51,560 --> 01:56:53,740
a board member of KPCW.

1591
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:56,500
And the third one is I'm most proud.

1592
01:56:56,500 --> 01:56:58,620
I'm a citizen of the United States.

1593
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:03,440
And I'm here because I would like to speak about the criticism

1594
01:57:03,440 --> 01:57:08,140
that's circling around the Council's appointment of Councilwoman Peek.

1595
01:57:08,740 --> 01:57:11,480
Now, I've never spoken to the Council before. Don't intend to do it again.

1596
01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:15,980
But I'm going to say this is one, and what's been happening

1597
01:57:16,400 --> 01:57:20,180
is something that I have a perspective on from being on the board of KPCW

1598
01:57:20,180 --> 01:57:25,120
and also being involved in seeing what's been going on

1599
01:57:25,120 --> 01:57:26,940
that I can't stay silent here.

1600
01:57:27,660 --> 01:57:30,460
To set the stage though, I do want to first acknowledge

1601
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:34,840
I was disappointed in the misguided advice

1602
01:57:34,840 --> 01:57:37,080
the council received from our city attorney

1603
01:57:37,540 --> 01:57:39,120
on whether it was appropriate to hold

1604
01:57:39,120 --> 01:57:40,940
the closed meetings or not.

1605
01:57:41,240 --> 01:57:42,600
That disappointed me that it happened.

1606
01:57:43,200 --> 01:57:44,860
I was also disappointed that council

1607
01:57:45,400 --> 01:57:47,680
waited until after receiving a grammar request

1608
01:57:48,060 --> 01:57:50,680
to turn over the tapes of the closed meeting.

1609
01:57:51,100 --> 01:57:53,320
Reason why I was disappointed there is very simple.

1610
01:57:53,320 --> 01:58:00,200
By any delay, it raises a suspicion maybe there's something to hide when I know and you know there wasn't.

1611
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:03,240
But I'm disappointed that the way that worked out.

1612
01:58:06,440 --> 01:58:11,440
And to your credit, the council came forward, owned it and moved on.

1613
01:58:12,040 --> 01:58:18,020
And from my perspective, we should be moving on to bigger issues that are facing our city.

1614
01:58:18,020 --> 01:58:25,520
However, I'm equally, if not more, disappointed that the council has been accused, literally

1615
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:32,200
accused by in some of the things that have been on our radio station that I'm a board

1616
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:39,000
member of, and by some of the letters to the editor that in this decision-making process

1617
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:45,260
you acted, and I'm going to quote it with injustice in discrimination, and how you

1618
01:58:45,260 --> 01:58:51,520
appointed Ms. Peek to be a councilwoman. I've heard the transcript. I've done more than

1619
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:57,260
that. I've had the opportunity to have the transcript brought down to written word and

1620
01:58:57,260 --> 01:59:01,700
be able to read the transcript. And I would urge anyone that has any questions about

1621
01:59:01,700 --> 01:59:06,560
what actually happened to do that to actually read it because when you read it, you have

1622
01:59:06,560 --> 01:59:10,680
the opportunity to go back and see what was said before. You're not just relying

1623
01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:15,180
on memory of things that has been going on, but you can go back to see context.

1624
01:59:15,780 --> 01:59:20,740
You can see what was happening in real time and in pause and go back and look.

1625
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:24,240
It's very useful to ensure accuracy.

1626
01:59:24,860 --> 01:59:30,800
And I'm going to submit to you that an honest, open, unbiased review clearly shows that what

1627
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:37,240
we had in your discussion was a group of good-minded people, my representatives, wrestling

1628
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:38,100
with a question.

1629
01:59:38,100 --> 01:59:41,680
And what's been distorted is what the question was.

1630
01:59:42,520 --> 01:59:45,560
But when you look closely, the question was time.

1631
01:59:46,540 --> 01:59:53,040
Do the candidates that wanted to be placed for a two-year appointment have the time for the job?

1632
01:59:53,740 --> 01:59:54,780
Let me show you what I mean.

1633
01:59:55,480 --> 01:59:58,800
The council ended up, if you read it, with a short list of three people.

1634
01:59:58,800 --> 01:59:59,920
and I'm gonna just go by the first

1635
02:00:01,900 --> 02:00:16,460
And the three people were Lynn, Diane, and Abby. All right? In order to get to the three people, when I saw what was read, what was actually discussed, the council eliminated an individual who had great qualifications, a man.

1636
02:00:17,100 --> 02:00:24,960
Had terrific qualifications, best I could tell. Yet he was eliminated because of a real question he had for the time to do the job.

1637
02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:35,820
Abby, when I look at the transcript, was ruled out at the top three because of one she was too busy evidence by she dances from meeting to meeting to meeting.

1638
02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:44,560
And while in meetings her laptop is open answering emails rather than focusing on the meeting at hand.

1639
02:00:45,340 --> 02:00:50,320
Second thing that I found is a lack of flexibility with the job that she has.

1640
02:00:50,320 --> 02:00:52,780
She has to schedule things far out.

1641
02:00:53,280 --> 02:00:56,440
If there's anything I know as being a husband or somebody on this council,

1642
02:00:56,780 --> 02:00:59,040
is there's a lot of things you can't schedule far out.

1643
02:00:59,440 --> 02:01:01,100
It's just the way the job is.

1644
02:01:01,540 --> 02:01:04,300
You have to have the time to meet the job requirements.

1645
02:01:04,440 --> 02:01:08,580
And the third, it was discussed about her having children or husbands

1646
02:01:09,500 --> 02:01:14,820
unpredictable schedule in terms of meeting the needs that need to come from this.

1647
02:01:15,480 --> 02:01:22,060
And the issue all the way through was time, not children, time.

1648
02:01:23,060 --> 02:01:25,180
Then it came to Lynn and Diane as the top two.

1649
02:01:25,440 --> 02:01:29,000
Interesting to note, Diane, who's the top two, has children.

1650
02:01:31,020 --> 02:01:32,540
And yet finally she was eliminated.

1651
02:01:32,920 --> 02:01:35,280
Well, first it was decided even with children she had more time.

1652
02:01:36,200 --> 02:01:38,900
But then it came down to, and it's very clear on the record,

1653
02:01:39,440 --> 02:01:44,800
that Lynn was chosen simply because she was the best candidate

1654
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:45,560
it for the job.

1655
02:01:47,860 --> 02:01:52,360
I think one of you were quoted, she has the background to hit the job or hit

1656
02:01:52,360 --> 02:01:56,820
the ground running because of her background. She doesn't have to have months of trying

1657
02:01:56,820 --> 02:02:03,100
to get up to speed. However, following that, the KPCW did what I would call, and it's

1658
02:02:03,100 --> 02:02:10,280
me, a gotcha piece, and that Melissa Allison scripted. A careful comparison of the actual

1659
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:17,080
transcript and her presentation clearly shows selected quotes, taking it various times to

1660
02:02:17,080 --> 02:02:23,100
in your conversation and put together in an effort to infer a pattern.

1661
02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:28,040
When you read the transcript, there's all kinds of stuff coming in between these quotes.

1662
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:34,840
But there's no question any open-minded person would infer there's a pattern going on.

1663
02:02:34,840 --> 02:02:41,880
In fact, the byline for the piece said, quote, what Abbie McNulty takes issue with in the

1664
02:02:42,440 --> 02:02:49,400
discussion the council had behind closed door was about whether a working mother can handle

1665
02:02:49,400 --> 02:02:51,580
the responsibility the position requires.

1666
02:02:52,480 --> 02:02:56,900
Now I would submit that if you look very closely at this, what it was was a discussion

1667
02:02:56,900 --> 02:03:02,700
having to do with not a working mother, therefore lumping all working mothers together.

1668
02:03:02,700 --> 02:03:08,260
It was actually a discussion to do with these working mothers.

1669
02:03:10,120 --> 02:03:13,060
The implication has been elsewhere when we've looked.

1670
02:03:14,340 --> 02:03:20,600
And as I said, Diane, despite a working mother, was in the top two.

1671
02:03:21,380 --> 02:03:25,220
She just didn't have the background Ms. Peac had to be able to hit the ground running.

1672
02:03:26,300 --> 02:03:33,740
In the guest editorial that I read in the paper, the author says she recognized injustice

1673
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:39,420
and discrimination in the transcript, quote, I was disappointed that a person's status

1674
02:03:39,420 --> 02:03:45,260
as a working professional and parent of young children is among the considerations for

1675
02:03:45,260 --> 02:03:46,700
counsel candidacy.

1676
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:53,600
And she goes on to say, well-meaning leaders are going to need to listen, learn, and

1677
02:03:53,600 --> 02:03:53,960
change.

1678
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:54,060
change.

1679
02:03:57,720 --> 02:04:03,520
I take the issue with the change part. I'm frankly lost to understand how the conversation

1680
02:04:03,520 --> 02:04:09,380
wasn't exactly what it needs to be as citizens. When someone wants to take on the mantle of

1681
02:04:09,380 --> 02:04:16,580
representing me or any of us, it is a valid question. Do you have the time to do the

1682
02:04:16,580 --> 02:04:23,820
job? No matter what the circumstances are, it's a valid question. For instance, I'm

1683
02:04:23,820 --> 02:04:29,680
trial or some of you know that. I handle cases all around the nation. If I was to sit here

1684
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:34,620
and apply for that position, would it not be a fair question to ask me, Mike, I see

1685
02:04:34,620 --> 02:04:39,620
how much times you're on airplanes. I know you do trials where you're called out for

1686
02:04:39,620 --> 02:04:46,020
three weeks at a time. I know you're handling cases all over the nation. Is that a discriminatory

1687
02:04:46,020 --> 02:04:52,880
question of my take to me? Or is it a valid question because of time? If you excluded

1688
02:04:52,880 --> 02:04:58,060
me because I just can't get it done under the circumstances of the job.

1689
02:04:58,560 --> 02:04:59,420
Is that discrimination?

1690
02:05:00,620 --> 02:05:01,820
I would submit not.

1691
02:05:02,360 --> 02:05:05,980
Was Eric discriminated against because he had great qualifications?

1692
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:08,620
He just didn't have the time.

1693
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:13,220
I submit to you that is nowhere near discrimination.

1694
02:05:14,700 --> 02:05:15,300
All right.

1695
02:05:17,460 --> 02:05:24,320
When my wife ran for this office, I had the opportunity to sit there and listen to

1696
02:05:24,320 --> 02:05:25,620
to the questions that were asked of her.

1697
02:05:26,260 --> 02:05:28,180
I tell you, every single time,

1698
02:05:28,640 --> 02:05:30,200
these were the questions that came her way.

1699
02:05:30,780 --> 02:05:32,220
Ms. Worrell, I hear that you're the head

1700
02:05:32,220 --> 02:05:33,140
of People's Health Clinic.

1701
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:35,140
You're also on a lot of other boards

1702
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:37,680
and you and your husband have been known for travel.

1703
02:05:38,380 --> 02:05:40,680
Do you have the time for the job?

1704
02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:44,000
Over and over.

1705
02:05:45,180 --> 02:05:47,620
If a citizen, would anyone argue

1706
02:05:47,620 --> 02:05:49,640
that a citizen doesn't have the right to ask that question?

1707
02:05:50,980 --> 02:05:53,640
I would submit to you what we have here

1708
02:05:53,640 --> 02:06:01,260
was you were in my stead, acting as a citizen, asking the questions that I would ask if that

1709
02:06:01,260 --> 02:06:07,480
person ran for office. But it wasn't running, they were being appointed. But in being appointed,

1710
02:06:07,920 --> 02:06:14,420
you have the right and I submit, you have the obligation to ask those questions. There

1711
02:06:14,420 --> 02:06:17,740
are the questions any citizen would ask before voting for someone.

1712
02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:25,720
Time is always relevant,

1713
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:32,840
But no matter why, if you don't have enough time, regardless of the reasons, you simply

1714
02:06:32,840 --> 02:06:34,580
can't do the job.

1715
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:36,460
This is a government position.

1716
02:06:37,240 --> 02:06:38,320
It can't be tailored.

1717
02:06:39,080 --> 02:06:41,780
I think that's gotten lost in what's been happening.

1718
02:06:42,180 --> 02:06:46,520
If I hire someone and they can't, for whatever reason, do the job, I've got a choice.

1719
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:47,320
I've got two choices.

1720
02:06:47,700 --> 02:06:52,680
I can either tailor the job to make it fit what they want to do and accommodate

1721
02:06:52,680 --> 02:06:57,780
everything else family whatever because they're important to me or number two I

1722
02:06:57,780 --> 02:07:02,900
can fire them because they can't do the job this job was an appointment a two-year

1723
02:07:02,900 --> 02:07:07,980
appointment it strikes me when I look at this this was a situation you had to

1724
02:07:07,980 --> 02:07:14,280
ask those questions because of two reasons one if they can't do the job you

1725
02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:21,780
can't fire them you can't tailor the job to the person the person that wants

1726
02:07:21,780 --> 02:07:28,520
the job has to tailor their life to the job. And then the second thing is, if that person

1727
02:07:28,520 --> 02:07:35,360
can't do it for whatever reason, then you, counsel, are the ones that have to pick up

1728
02:07:35,360 --> 02:07:40,720
the slack for that person. And I'd ask you, is that fair? I would say no.

1729
02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:45,660
I do agree with

1730
02:07:45,660 --> 02:07:52,560
a guest editorial when she said social justice requires messy conversations. I'll submit,

1731
02:07:52,560 --> 02:08:01,560
yet, that's what you guys did. It was a messy conversation. Had to be. You were talking about

1732
02:08:01,560 --> 02:08:06,120
people that you liked that are great people in the community, but you have the right to

1733
02:08:06,120 --> 02:08:10,500
ask time. It's messy, but it was appropriate.

1734
02:08:13,320 --> 02:08:17,800
I want to say as a citizen, I thank you for

1735
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:24,740
asking those questions and making a decision on who you placed in position. I would have

1736
02:08:24,740 --> 02:08:32,300
asked those questions. I wouldn't pause at all on that. You have nothing to apologize for

1737
02:08:32,300 --> 02:08:39,220
in my judgment. To quote William Shakespeare, this is much ado about nothing if you take

1738
02:08:39,220 --> 02:08:46,160
the time to actually read what was said when you were delivering. Thank you for

1739
02:08:46,160 --> 02:08:46,500
your attention.

1740
02:08:48,840 --> 02:08:49,600
Thank you, Mike.

1741
02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:00,160
You're all here. Somebody must have something to say to us.

1742
02:09:04,970 --> 02:09:06,250
Nothing from all the students?

1743
02:09:08,470 --> 02:09:11,870
What? First, oh, it's on the agenda. Okay.

1744
02:09:12,070 --> 02:09:14,190
Oh, I thought they might have- See?

1745
02:09:15,070 --> 02:09:16,770
They know the process better than I do.

1746
02:09:18,570 --> 02:09:20,070
Okay, any other public input?

1747
02:09:21,410 --> 02:09:23,470
We will close the public hearing then.

1748
02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:33,000
Next up, a consideration of the minutes.

1749
02:09:35,660 --> 02:09:37,840
Does anyone have any amendment?

1750
02:09:42,160 --> 02:09:43,660
I have to get on the right page here.

1751
02:09:47,820 --> 02:09:54,260
On page 25 of the minutes, I'm having technical difficulties.

1752
02:09:59,570 --> 02:10:08,110
On line 19, I had asked a question about partnering with local organizations to reach our housing goals,

1753
02:10:08,630 --> 02:10:12,490
and it was Glidden and I believe Stalford that responded.

1754
02:10:13,330 --> 02:10:14,870
I didn't respond to my own question.

1755
02:10:16,010 --> 02:10:25,790
And then on page 32 of the minutes where it talks about the motion I made for Treasure

1756
02:10:25,790 --> 02:10:37,350
Hill, the motion also included that we direct staff to remove the TDR section for this

1757
02:10:37,350 --> 02:10:38,650
property from the LMC.

1758
02:10:41,460 --> 02:10:42,020
Good catch.

1759
02:10:43,340 --> 02:10:43,860
Steve.

1760
02:10:44,820 --> 02:10:57,660
Just literally a typo. On page 26, it's talking about Dixon, it's line 16, and it's D-I-X-O-N,

1761
02:10:57,880 --> 02:11:00,680
which is right all the other places, but here it's spelled wrong.

1762
02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:09,460
I have one other point on the minutes from the retreat.

1763
02:11:09,460 --> 02:11:15,860
At the top of the page, the date is February 28th throughout the minutes and it should be

1764
02:11:16,280 --> 02:11:17,260
March 1st.

1765
02:11:19,330 --> 02:11:19,590
That's all.

1766
02:11:19,890 --> 02:11:35,550
I have one on page 39, line 28, where I was speaking about having done outreach on Main

1767
02:11:35,550 --> 02:11:41,990
Street in the parking program and talked about having spoken to a few employees that didn't

1768
02:11:41,990 --> 02:11:48,010
know the community. It says, indicated the employees working in Old Town, which makes

1769
02:11:48,010 --> 02:11:53,270
it sound like it's every employee, which certainly is not the case. So I don't know

1770
02:11:53,270 --> 02:12:01,490
if you could replace it with a few or? That's all. Okay. Anymore? Over in the quiet

1771
02:12:05,880 --> 02:12:11,620
Your Honor, I move that we approve the minutes from February 15th and March 1st as amended.

1772
02:12:12,300 --> 02:12:12,620
Second.

1773
02:12:13,380 --> 02:12:14,580
Okay, all in favor.

1774
02:12:14,940 --> 02:12:15,320
All right.

1775
02:12:15,620 --> 02:12:16,160
Any opposed?

1776
02:12:16,760 --> 02:12:17,400
Okay, it passes.

1777
02:12:18,340 --> 02:12:19,840
And we are on to new business.

1778
02:12:20,600 --> 02:12:25,660
Item number one is a consideration to approve the Level 3 First Amendment event, March for Our Lives.

1779
02:12:27,880 --> 02:12:31,680
Sorry, I'm skipping ahead today, eager to get to this.

1780
02:12:32,260 --> 02:12:34,020
Okay, consent agenda.

1781
02:12:34,380 --> 02:12:34,880
Any questions?

1782
02:12:36,480 --> 02:12:38,760
Mr. Mayor, I move that we adopt the consent agenda.

1783
02:12:40,570 --> 02:12:41,330
All in favor?

1784
02:12:41,850 --> 02:12:42,150
Aye.

1785
02:12:42,710 --> 02:12:43,330
Any opposed?

1786
02:12:46,130 --> 02:12:47,490
Okay, I'll check in first this time.

1787
02:12:47,610 --> 02:12:48,410
Are we ready for new business?

1788
02:12:49,750 --> 02:12:50,210
Ready.

1789
02:12:51,090 --> 02:12:52,310
Okay, Jenny.

1790
02:12:53,170 --> 02:12:54,590
Good evening, Mayor and City Council.

1791
02:12:54,830 --> 02:12:56,410
Jenny Derson, Special Events Manager.

1792
02:12:57,190 --> 02:12:59,190
I just want to introduce Maya Levine.

1793
02:12:59,830 --> 02:13:01,970
She's been organizing the March for Our Lives.

1794
02:13:02,670 --> 02:13:04,750
Maya has taken on a lion's share of the work,

1795
02:13:04,890 --> 02:13:06,150
coordinating with many students,

1796
02:13:06,150 --> 02:13:08,870
as well as many community organizations for this event.

1797
02:13:09,690 --> 02:13:14,010
I am going to let Maya take care of the presentation for tonight and then I believe we will turn

1798
02:13:14,010 --> 02:13:16,490
it over to Council for questions and comments.

1799
02:13:17,330 --> 02:13:21,640
And with that, it's okay, I'll turn it over to Maya tonight.

1800
02:13:22,540 --> 02:13:29,020
As you can see, we have quite a few students here who are also helping organize the March.

1801
02:13:29,900 --> 02:13:35,340
The March, basically why we want the March, I think it's pretty obvious, although it

1802
02:13:35,340 --> 02:13:36,300
still needs to be said.

1803
02:13:36,300 --> 02:13:42,380
we should not feel unsafe going to school, and we would like – we would love the opportunities

1804
02:13:42,380 --> 02:13:48,680
to stand in solidarity with our peers across the world and in Parkland, Florida, to stand

1805
02:13:49,240 --> 02:13:54,980
and protest gun violence and declare the need for gun control in the U.S.

1806
02:13:55,780 --> 02:14:01,620
The date of the march is March 14th, 10 a.m. Right now the route being planned is we

1807
02:14:01,620 --> 02:14:05,420
We are starting at Lower Main Street by Atticus and Vinto.

1808
02:14:05,740 --> 02:14:11,740
We will walk up Main Street towards the Marriott and take a left on Seventh Avenue, walk across

1809
02:14:11,740 --> 02:14:18,260
the Marriott Plaza to Poison Creek Trail, walk down Poison Creek Trail, and end at the

1810
02:14:18,260 --> 02:14:22,460
bandstand where we will have around four or five student speakers to end with a rally.

1811
02:14:25,280 --> 02:14:32,860
So for the parking transit and volunteers, Park City High School has allowed us to use

1812
02:14:32,860 --> 02:14:40,680
their parking lots throughout the entire time of the March end rally and the city has also

1813
02:14:40,680 --> 02:14:45,480
increased or has offered to increase the yellow bus line which is a direct route from

1814
02:14:45,480 --> 02:14:47,500
Park City High School to Main Street.

1815
02:14:47,500 --> 02:14:59,980
So far, we have nine volunteers for the beginning stages of the March from 9 to 945 and 14 volunteers for 11 to 11.

1816
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:07,960
1145 to take down and do any cleanup. The surrounding areas of Utah, Provo Salt Lake,

1817
02:15:08,200 --> 02:15:13,640
have their own sister marches, so we aren't expecting many people to come up the canyon

1818
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:22,150
or from neighboring cities as well. For outreach, we have already talked with KPCW,

1819
02:15:22,840 --> 02:15:26,060
the park record, and we'll follow up with them after this meeting

1820
02:15:26,060 --> 02:15:33,040
and up until the March to update them on any new specific things that will happen during

1821
02:15:33,040 --> 02:15:37,680
the March, including speakers, if there is a time change, things like that.

1822
02:15:37,880 --> 02:15:41,480
And we have also coordinated with Mr. Robb and PCTV.

1823
02:15:42,220 --> 02:15:45,980
So we will hopefully be on there soon as well.

1824
02:15:46,500 --> 02:15:50,620
For the residents of Park City, they will have a pass.

1825
02:15:50,900 --> 02:15:52,880
I think Jenny can talk a little more about this.

1826
02:15:52,880 --> 02:15:58,020
But they will have a pass if they need to drive in and out of the area because of some of the street closures as well

1827
02:15:58,580 --> 02:16:04,500
And so that's all it for me right now at least and I just wanted to add really quickly

1828
02:16:04,500 --> 02:16:10,500
We do anticipate doing some additional resident and merchant outreach next week leading up to the event

1829
02:16:11,100 --> 02:16:12,060
and then also

1830
02:16:12,640 --> 02:16:18,480
Maya is requesting a fee reduction of a little over $8,000 for the city services

1831
02:16:19,040 --> 02:16:22,500
They have started a GoFundMe page and have raised some funds.

1832
02:16:22,740 --> 02:16:27,200
Many of the funds that they have raised are going to go towards some of the hard costs,

1833
02:16:27,280 --> 02:16:29,900
like bringing in restrooms and a stage, so on and so forth.

1834
02:16:31,280 --> 02:16:35,800
And so they did submit a letter of hardship in the packet tonight,

1835
02:16:36,380 --> 02:16:38,840
and they are requesting a full waiver of those fees.

1836
02:16:40,420 --> 02:16:44,320
And with that, I think we will, if it's okay, turn it over to Council.

1837
02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:47,600
Okay. Go ahead, Becca.

1838
02:16:48,240 --> 02:16:52,540
I want to know who is predicting a powder day if we approve this event.

1839
02:16:54,160 --> 02:16:57,360
Every time we have one of those big events, we have a powder day.

1840
02:16:58,120 --> 02:17:00,680
In the women's march, we always have a big powder day.

1841
02:17:00,700 --> 02:17:05,660
Does it usually make it into the packet as proving an event may result in a powder day,

1842
02:17:05,720 --> 02:17:09,260
which will likely be enjoyed by the community as one of the pros.

1843
02:17:09,520 --> 02:17:11,380
But if you can make that happen,

1844
02:17:16,720 --> 02:17:21,520
I am really excited about this event, and I thank you for putting all the time and energy

1845
02:17:21,520 --> 02:17:24,600
and effort that you're doing with your group to make this happen.

1846
02:17:25,460 --> 02:17:29,140
I am a little confused about the route.

1847
02:17:29,860 --> 02:17:36,320
It seems to me, and I know that we have a lot of events and closures of Park Avenue,

1848
02:17:36,320 --> 02:17:40,180
But the visibility that this event deserves, it seems to me,

1849
02:17:40,340 --> 02:17:43,620
needs to be on a city street rather than on a trail.

1850
02:17:44,520 --> 02:17:47,300
That's my opinion. And I'm curious why.

1851
02:17:48,020 --> 02:17:50,860
So I think as we continue to have these first amendment events,

1852
02:17:50,980 --> 02:17:53,840
we continue to look at ways to mitigate some of the impacts.

1853
02:17:54,240 --> 02:17:58,480
There are concerns, just like we had with the women's rally,

1854
02:17:58,680 --> 02:18:01,600
that having an event where we would close down Park Avenue

1855
02:18:01,600 --> 02:18:05,020
not only makes us need to remove parking from Park Avenue

1856
02:18:05,020 --> 02:18:10,840
in that residential area, but it also shuts down a pretty main thoroughfare for city transit.

1857
02:18:11,020 --> 02:18:15,240
So we would have to divert and reroute transit during that time, and there is a concern in

1858
02:18:15,240 --> 02:18:15,640
doing that.

1859
02:18:16,240 --> 02:18:16,580
Okay.

1860
02:18:16,820 --> 02:18:17,020
Thanks.

1861
02:18:21,120 --> 02:18:21,700
Hi, Tim.

1862
02:18:22,600 --> 02:18:26,240
Oh, Jenny, what about the closure of Lower Maine for the entire time of the event?

1863
02:18:26,440 --> 02:18:28,160
8 a.m. to 12 p.m., it seems.

1864
02:18:28,420 --> 02:18:30,820
Is there an ability to limit that closure?

1865
02:18:31,360 --> 02:18:34,700
There is a possibility that that could be more in the 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock

1866
02:18:34,700 --> 02:18:34,960
hour.

1867
02:18:34,960 --> 02:18:38,780
We do want the approval to start that as early as 8 o'clock.

1868
02:18:39,020 --> 02:18:42,080
We are anticipating 1,000 people to show up.

1869
02:18:42,220 --> 02:18:45,720
If that number grows, then we may need to take that earlier if people show up.

1870
02:18:46,160 --> 02:18:49,380
But the idea is in the morning people can still go and park down there and

1871
02:18:49,380 --> 02:18:53,940
grab their skis or their coffee to the businesses that are open in the early morning.

1872
02:18:54,280 --> 02:18:58,920
Yeah, I was thinking more of the 12 o'clock's end of things and maybe I'm off on that.

1873
02:18:59,120 --> 02:18:59,800
No, I think you're right.

1874
02:18:59,920 --> 02:19:03,400
I think as soon as the march has left the street, we'll reopen parking.

1875
02:19:03,400 --> 02:19:09,020
And when is the March supposed to leave the street? It's supposed to start right at 10 o'clock. So I'm anticipating that by 10 30

1876
02:19:09,020 --> 02:19:11,660
Okay, thanks. I

1877
02:19:11,660 --> 02:19:13,600
Think in the packet I

1878
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:19,060
May be wrong the original route had you going up to Heber and then across and down Poison Creek

1879
02:19:19,060 --> 02:19:20,560
I thought that's what I saw

1880
02:19:21,100 --> 02:19:24,040
Okay, no, there is a if we do get a large enough crowd

1881
02:19:24,040 --> 02:19:26,540
We may go down just straight down through 9th Street

1882
02:19:26,540 --> 02:19:29,740
So we are trying to also maintain 9th Street being open for a drop off

1883
02:19:29,740 --> 02:19:35,840
Okay, that was well, so that's why the route was established as that is okay. That was one of my questions as well

1884
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:37,180
for me

1885
02:19:37,980 --> 02:19:42,600
It doesn't bother me so much that you would be going down Poison Creek path

1886
02:19:42,600 --> 02:19:46,920
I think for reasons of mitigating impacts, especially to transit and

1887
02:19:47,580 --> 02:19:54,620
Considering that we are still in our high season. I think it's fine. And I think that there is I

1888
02:19:55,520 --> 02:19:55,880
mean

1889
02:19:55,880 --> 02:20:00,960
And everyone has a different view of the point of a march, but I think that there's so much

1890
02:20:00,960 --> 02:20:07,220
solidarity in everyone that will come, that the big part of it is walking together with

1891
02:20:07,220 --> 02:20:10,000
other people and families and kids.

1892
02:20:10,460 --> 02:20:15,680
So that doesn't bother me specifically, and I also think that the big gathering space,

1893
02:20:15,700 --> 02:20:19,580
well, will be in the beginning and then at the end at City Park.

1894
02:20:19,800 --> 02:20:24,640
And I assume it's going to the same setup as the respect rally, like the stage and

1895
02:20:24,640 --> 02:20:29,980
And that sort of thing it'll be very similar same same place and just not not same place

1896
02:20:29,980 --> 02:20:36,440
It'll be by right by the skate park the bandstand. Oh, okay. Okay. So much easier much easier

1897
02:20:36,440 --> 02:20:41,360
And I also love that you're doing this. I think it's wonderful and

1898
02:20:42,420 --> 02:20:46,020
What a great learning experience as well as

1899
02:20:46,600 --> 02:20:49,080
Just really making your voices heard

1900
02:20:49,080 --> 02:20:54,040
I think there's so much that we can learn from young people and I don't know

1901
02:20:54,040 --> 02:20:59,560
I do have some questions about the fee waiver, but will that come after public comment or now?

1902
02:20:59,600 --> 02:21:01,240
It's good time for questions, okay?

1903
02:21:02,260 --> 02:21:07,300
And and these are more general questions not reflective of my support or

1904
02:21:07,680 --> 02:21:13,680
non-support of a fee waiver for this specific event, but it's my understanding that we have a certain

1905
02:21:14,600 --> 02:21:18,860
amount at 200,000 in fee waivers that we can give.

1906
02:21:19,380 --> 02:21:22,380
And then after that it requires this sort of discussion and approval.

1907
02:21:23,020 --> 02:21:28,880
And it just seems to me that – does that go by fiscal year and the events that come

1908
02:21:28,880 --> 02:21:36,280
up first, it's more easily granted those approvals for – yeah, there's something

1909
02:21:36,280 --> 02:21:40,940
that seems amiss about that, like it should be some – I don't know – it should

1910
02:21:40,940 --> 02:21:47,720
be based on criteria that is, I don't know, it's hard to say less subjective, but something

1911
02:21:47,720 --> 02:21:52,840
that can be applied across the board, you know, maybe a percentage of fee waivers if

1912
02:21:52,840 --> 02:21:57,880
we approve it, just so we don't get to this point in the year. And yes, Jenny.

1913
02:21:58,420 --> 02:22:03,380
So we do have a fee reduction process. So we have hit a limit. It is based on, to

1914
02:22:03,380 --> 02:22:08,780
be quite honest, after the Las Vegas Massacre, a lot of our costs specific to public

1915
02:22:08,780 --> 02:22:13,620
safety have gone up. Special events department along with public safety and a couple other

1916
02:22:13,620 --> 02:22:18,400
departments does intend to come to the March 29 council meeting to discuss this item in

1917
02:22:18,400 --> 02:22:23,940
particular. We do have a process where it is just twice a year that events can submit

1918
02:22:23,940 --> 02:22:28,680
for fee reduction. This is an event that we just found out in middle of February

1919
02:22:28,680 --> 02:22:35,160
that was going to happen. And so as per the policy, once we hit that $200,000 threshold,

1920
02:22:35,160 --> 02:22:40,920
hold, those items do come back to City Council. I do also want to be clear that we do believe

1921
02:22:40,920 --> 02:22:48,540
the cost can be covered within existing city budgets, department budgets, but that threshold

1922
02:22:48,540 --> 02:22:53,600
was really developed as a way to see if we can stay within that $200,000 a year, and

1923
02:22:53,600 --> 02:22:54,400
we have exceeded it.

1924
02:22:55,160 --> 02:22:55,320
Okay.

1925
02:22:56,380 --> 02:22:56,860
Steve?

1926
02:22:58,480 --> 02:23:02,740
She asked about the same question, and I think I was going to say that I just

1927
02:23:02,740 --> 02:23:08,920
I need some educational, what the feed waiver process is and what the determining.

1928
02:23:09,420 --> 02:23:11,700
All I was going to ask is who do we talk to about that?

1929
02:23:11,780 --> 02:23:14,440
Should I get that from you or I need some education?

1930
02:23:15,080 --> 02:23:17,960
And I, yes, we can get you that information.

1931
02:23:18,240 --> 02:23:24,540
And there are seven criteria that events do answer to when it goes to a city staff committee to evaluate.

1932
02:23:24,840 --> 02:23:27,960
They make a recommendation and then depending on the threshold level,

1933
02:23:27,960 --> 02:23:33,680
If it's under $25,000, it goes to the city manager as an authority to approve that.

1934
02:23:33,860 --> 02:23:35,920
If it's over that amount, it would come to city council.

1935
02:23:36,700 --> 02:23:37,520
Okay, thank you.

1936
02:23:38,320 --> 02:23:40,700
Just a little bit of background on those fee waivers.

1937
02:23:40,860 --> 02:23:44,620
That was council policy, so we could keep track of how much we were spending.

1938
02:23:44,800 --> 02:23:48,720
But we do always have the opportunity to override those and grant fee waivers

1939
02:23:48,720 --> 02:23:50,040
if we think it's important enough.

1940
02:23:52,710 --> 02:23:53,230
Other questions?

1941
02:23:55,960 --> 02:23:56,240
Okay.

1942
02:23:56,540 --> 02:23:57,780
Well, we'll take public input.

1943
02:23:58,040 --> 02:23:59,520
Would anybody like to speak on this matter?

1944
02:24:07,590 --> 02:24:08,050
Hi, Angela.

1945
02:24:08,050 --> 02:24:09,490
Good evening.

1946
02:24:14,800 --> 02:24:24,560
Angela Mosqueda, Oldstown resident. Hi. I'm going to read my comments this evening

1947
02:24:24,560 --> 02:24:31,480
because I'm a little emotional about this one. As you know, Sarah Berry and I moderate

1948
02:24:31,480 --> 02:24:35,620
a group called Future Park City. The future of our community and our young people's

1949
02:24:35,620 --> 02:24:40,960
participation in it are of paramount importance to us. And I believe we share this value

1950
02:24:40,960 --> 02:24:43,700
with all of you counselors and Mayor Andy.

1951
02:24:44,440 --> 02:24:46,600
I personally communicated and met with some

1952
02:24:46,600 --> 02:24:48,680
of the students involved in organizing

1953
02:24:48,680 --> 02:24:51,800
this First Amendment march to say that I'm blown away

1954
02:24:51,800 --> 02:24:53,780
by their emotional intelligence, planning

1955
02:24:53,780 --> 02:24:57,500
and social skills, sympathy, empathy, logic, organization

1956
02:24:57,500 --> 02:24:59,860
and poise is an understatement.

1957
02:25:00,360 --> 02:25:02,200
And it breaks my heart that their generation

1958
02:25:02,200 --> 02:25:04,940
is having to literally fight adults for safe classrooms

1959
02:25:04,940 --> 02:25:07,000
and preventative measures to protect their friends

1960
02:25:07,420 --> 02:25:08,800
and fellow students from murder.

1961
02:25:08,800 --> 02:25:13,380
future. These students give me hope for our future, specifically the future of Park City,

1962
02:25:13,900 --> 02:25:19,040
the progressive ideals we promote, and the aggressive initiatives we adopt. Mark my words,

1963
02:25:19,300 --> 02:25:20,500
they will save us from ourselves.

1964
02:25:23,540 --> 02:25:26,280
Supporting March for Our Lives Park City is not about

1965
02:25:26,280 --> 02:25:31,340
whether or not we as individuals support the students' message. It is simply about

1966
02:25:31,340 --> 02:25:36,280
whether or not we support our students, period. But every single adult in this

1967
02:25:36,280 --> 02:25:40,920
This room on this council and in this community is not rushing to bend over backwards and give

1968
02:25:40,920 --> 02:25:45,460
these students our dollars, our volunteer time, and the most public stage possible blows

1969
02:25:45,460 --> 02:25:46,040
my mind.

1970
02:25:46,640 --> 02:25:49,540
They have earned a national stage, they have developed their voice.

1971
02:25:50,120 --> 02:25:54,360
Our local students have proven to us in their comments online and on the radio in their

1972
02:25:54,360 --> 02:25:59,460
remarkable organization of yesterday's Walkout slash Diane in their earnest fundraising

1973
02:25:59,460 --> 02:26:04,240
to support associated event costs and in their notable leadership in Park City that

1974
02:26:04,240 --> 02:26:08,440
that they are just as deserving of a visible platform as say the March for Science or the

1975
02:26:08,440 --> 02:26:15,100
Women's March. And so I am here to advocate for not only the waving of 100% of their permit

1976
02:26:15,100 --> 02:26:21,700
fees, but also for the students preferred March route. Please don't imply a lack of

1977
02:26:21,700 --> 02:26:26,700
significance by sticking them on a trail. Let them march in plain sight on Main Street,

1978
02:26:26,980 --> 02:26:31,700
on Park Avenue, and into the park as they have legitimately and respectfully requested.

1979
02:26:31,700 --> 02:26:36,800
To be sure, the route posed to you today is one recommended to the students by staff

1980
02:26:36,800 --> 02:26:38,320
in order to limit impacts.

1981
02:26:38,880 --> 02:26:43,320
The students want a more public route, allow them to explain that to you here.

1982
02:26:44,160 --> 02:26:48,340
You have an opportunity to affirm for our youth and for all of Park City that we value

1983
02:26:48,340 --> 02:26:51,560
the voices of our young people, the same as we value the voices of everyone in our

1984
02:26:51,560 --> 02:26:55,620
community, that we will give their freedom of speech the same consideration that we

1985
02:26:55,620 --> 02:26:59,500
give to the women of Sundance and to our postulators of theorems and formulators

1986
02:26:59,500 --> 02:27:00,100
of equations.

1987
02:27:00,600 --> 02:27:03,100
This event is as Park City as you can get.

1988
02:27:03,320 --> 02:27:08,360
I implore staff and council to work with our students right here and now to determine their preferred route today,

1989
02:27:08,800 --> 02:27:12,860
not the one adults are foisting upon them, and to do whatever it takes to enable that.

1990
02:27:13,500 --> 02:27:18,680
So you have to shut down Main Street for a few hours, you have to reroute transit, so it's another level 3 event.

1991
02:27:19,320 --> 02:27:24,600
We as a community fight for the environment, for open space, for affordable housing, for our wildlife.

1992
02:27:25,320 --> 02:27:29,140
If we are not fighting fiercest for one another, what are we really fighting for?

1993
02:27:29,140 --> 02:27:33,140
These students are literally marching for their lives.

1994
02:27:33,560 --> 02:27:36,380
Nothing is going to change without disruption on a national scale.

1995
02:27:36,840 --> 02:27:38,640
Let's give them everything we've got locally.

1996
02:27:39,180 --> 02:27:42,500
This is as much an investment in our youth as it is the future of Park City.

1997
02:27:43,000 --> 02:27:43,400
Thank you.

1998
02:27:53,180 --> 02:27:53,760
Hello.

1999
02:27:54,960 --> 02:27:55,980
Sarah Berry.

2000
02:27:56,820 --> 02:28:02,840
I help moderate future Park City with Angela and not nearly as eloquent as her,

2001
02:28:03,060 --> 02:28:05,420
but these kids deserve to be seen.

2002
02:28:05,760 --> 02:28:07,320
They are fighting for their lives.

2003
02:28:08,600 --> 02:28:13,240
We cannot marginalize them. They need to be seen, and it needs to be a disruption.

2004
02:28:13,500 --> 02:28:16,660
That's the point. Make it visible. Help them out.

2005
02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:19,760
Let's waive all the fees and give them the route that they want.

2006
02:28:20,640 --> 02:28:21,280
Thanks, Sarah.

2007
02:28:25,810 --> 02:28:26,830
Who else would like to speak?

2008
02:28:42,270 --> 02:28:47,970
Hi. My name is Faith Staley, and I'm here with Sadie Ortiz, Olivia Henry, and Karsten Baling.

2009
02:28:48,150 --> 02:28:51,590
We are from the high school. We were organizers of the walkout yesterday,

2010
02:28:51,590 --> 02:28:54,810
And we're also helping Maya with the march for our lives.

2011
02:28:55,610 --> 02:28:59,910
And we're here reading a letter that Adam Herbst has written, and unfortunately he had

2012
02:28:59,910 --> 02:29:00,850
to leave just a moment ago.

2013
02:29:02,810 --> 02:29:07,130
In the year of 2015, there were 17,000 total homicides.

2014
02:29:08,730 --> 02:29:11,070
About 13,000 of those are from firearm-related.

2015
02:29:11,530 --> 02:29:12,370
Firearm-related.

2016
02:29:13,230 --> 02:29:16,750
In 2016, there were approximately 38,000 gun-related deaths.

2017
02:29:16,750 --> 02:29:22,070
Again, in 2015, there are 427 gun-related deaths in Utah.

2018
02:29:23,290 --> 02:29:27,450
The youth of Park City High School and the youth of many Utah schools have walked out

2019
02:29:27,450 --> 02:29:30,830
in order to protest the lack of gun control within the United States.

2020
02:29:31,450 --> 02:29:36,090
Students have recognized the inherent, inverse relationship between gun control and gun

2021
02:29:36,090 --> 02:29:36,430
violence.

2022
02:29:39,900 --> 02:29:42,080
The more gun control, the less deaths.

2023
02:29:42,640 --> 02:29:48,660
In 2014 in Australia, where guns were banned outright, there were 35 gun-related deaths,

2024
02:29:48,660 --> 02:29:53,360
Obviously, Australia is far different from the United States, but what is it to be recognized

2025
02:29:53,360 --> 02:29:59,120
today is that there are too many available guns in the United States.

2026
02:29:59,120 --> 02:29:59,940
Gun switch po-

2027
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:11,640
The primary purpose is to assault and not defend. How many of you all saw the teachers block their windows, not because of the sun, but because administration asked teachers to do so, for maximum safety?

2028
02:30:12,100 --> 02:30:20,680
How many of you weren't allowed to enter the building through certain doors because teachers can't tell if the person is infiltrating the school?

2029
02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:25,020
How many of you walked out for gun control because you didn't feel safe in your school?

2030
02:30:28,680 --> 02:30:34,440
My point is not to tube my own horn for walking out but to illuminate the facts that gun violence has drastically increased.

2031
02:30:34,880 --> 02:30:41,300
How is this okay? The simple answer which many agree is that these regulations birth from the lack of gun control

2032
02:30:42,220 --> 02:30:48,180
in order to preserve student safety without addressing the issues of guns or inherently dampened of civil liberties.

2033
02:30:48,740 --> 02:30:52,020
Civil liberties being the foundations of our democratic processes.

2034
02:30:52,020 --> 02:31:01,060
These foundations are shot apart by those who insist that gun rights should be preserved over autonomy, autonomy, my bad.

2035
02:31:01,660 --> 02:31:14,860
The systematic destruction of our livelihood is not formulated from those malicious intent, more so manufactured from the machine being our school district with the intent of only appealing to as many people as possible instead of valuing the quality of our education.

2036
02:31:18,580 --> 02:31:22,300
We are asking you to respect our civic duty to be politically active.

2037
02:31:22,300 --> 02:31:26,460
We are asking you to stand with youth who are eventually going to take the places of

2038
02:31:26,460 --> 02:31:28,040
our representatives and senators.

2039
02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:32,220
We are asking you to respect our want to be safe and live unrestricted by the worries

2040
02:31:32,220 --> 02:31:32,920
of a firearm.

2041
02:31:33,540 --> 02:31:37,640
This is what the march is attempting to promote, a life unrestricted by firearms.

2042
02:31:39,620 --> 02:31:40,160
Thank you.

2043
02:31:40,280 --> 02:31:40,560
Thank you.

2044
02:31:41,680 --> 02:31:42,280
Thank you.

2045
02:31:42,340 --> 02:31:42,500
Thank you.

2046
02:31:42,500 --> 02:31:42,820
Well done.

2047
02:31:43,140 --> 02:31:43,380
Thank

2048
02:31:55,740 --> 02:31:57,040
you.

2049
02:31:57,320 --> 02:31:58,800
And thank you for helping with this.

2050
02:31:59,060 --> 02:32:03,960
Well, I just wanted to say for those who weren't aware that one of the problems

2051
02:32:03,960 --> 02:32:09,660
the kids were having was getting insurance and it was about $9,000 worth of insurance for them to

2052
02:32:09,660 --> 02:32:14,700
do this march. We looked into our insurance policy at the Park City Institute and found out that we

2053
02:32:14,700 --> 02:32:21,080
could wiggle and make sure that we could cover this for them. And we're doing that because

2054
02:32:21,080 --> 02:32:26,040
we are so proud of them. Many of these students have been TED speakers. We've been involved

2055
02:32:26,040 --> 02:32:31,760
with them in a number of things and seen their terrific growth, but also seen their

2056
02:32:31,760 --> 02:32:37,020
leadership. We were there yesterday when they spoke and as the officer should have done,

2057
02:32:37,100 --> 02:32:41,380
we didn't get to hear any of it because the adults were on the outside. It was the kids

2058
02:32:41,380 --> 02:32:48,040
event but we've heard and watched on TV and we're just enormously proud. I too would

2059
02:32:48,040 --> 02:32:55,680
advocate that they deserve to be seen. I understand that it's ski season but it's

2060
02:32:55,680 --> 02:33:01,780
It's no less important than the accommodations that were made during the Sundance Film Festival.

2061
02:33:01,980 --> 02:33:03,260
That was a pretty busy time, too.

2062
02:33:03,760 --> 02:33:08,040
So I hope that you're able to give them the attention they deserve.

2063
02:33:13,130 --> 02:33:13,890
Anyone else?

2064
02:33:16,380 --> 02:33:16,660
Okay.

2065
02:33:16,800 --> 02:33:21,500
We will close the public hearing, and I'm open for comments or questions.

2066
02:33:21,800 --> 02:33:21,840
Tim?

2067
02:33:22,400 --> 02:33:24,180
Maya, let's hear about your preferred route.

2068
02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:29,460
The students and I would prefer to be more publicly seen, whether that's on Main Street

2069
02:33:29,460 --> 02:33:30,480
or Park Avenue.

2070
02:33:36,700 --> 02:33:40,420
So was your original intent to go all the way down Main Street?

2071
02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:46,420
I know you're kind of doing a combo event between what the Women's March was the first

2072
02:33:46,420 --> 02:33:53,440
year and the rally, being up at the flagpole, now it's down at the park, which is a lot

2073
02:33:53,440 --> 02:33:58,680
further for people to march than what the Women's March did the first year.

2074
02:33:58,920 --> 02:34:02,400
But is there, I would wonder if there would be some sort of happy medium like maybe

2075
02:34:02,400 --> 02:34:06,480
marching down lower Main Street and having that all and then Jump on Poison Creek to get

2076
02:34:06,480 --> 02:34:11,860
to the Raleigh area. I just feel like that's a long time to march down Park Ave.

2077
02:34:12,320 --> 02:34:19,460
The top of Main Street to the bandstand is about almost one mile, it's .9. So the very

2078
02:34:19,460 --> 02:34:25,400
first proposal was to start at Lower Main, go onto Park Avenue and then cut across

2079
02:34:25,400 --> 02:34:29,340
at the, where the miners' hospital is to the bandstand.

2080
02:34:30,460 --> 02:34:32,380
So that's another.

2081
02:34:32,720 --> 02:34:36,120
So like starting where the trolley turnaround is,

2082
02:34:36,260 --> 02:34:37,760
that roundabout or that coalition park?

2083
02:34:38,000 --> 02:34:38,200
Yeah.

2084
02:34:38,460 --> 02:34:40,640
And then go, because I do think that there,

2085
02:34:40,900 --> 02:34:42,580
it would make sense to give them some room

2086
02:34:42,580 --> 02:34:43,420
on one of the main streets.

2087
02:34:43,520 --> 02:34:45,980
I feel like blocking off all the way down Main Street,

2088
02:34:46,080 --> 02:34:48,180
all the way down Park Ave is a really long ways

2089
02:34:48,180 --> 02:34:49,700
and that could take a really long time.

2090
02:34:51,140 --> 02:34:54,120
But if there's a way that we can do more of a street

2091
02:34:54,120 --> 02:34:59,040
and then pull you off the, you know, back the sideway or start at lower, I don't know.

2092
02:34:59,160 --> 02:35:02,560
And I know the other thing that's going to be hard is that we only have so much time.

2093
02:35:03,280 --> 02:35:08,020
Council doesn't meet, but, or doesn't meet, doesn't meet up next week before.

2094
02:35:08,160 --> 02:35:14,900
I think if I'm not mistaken, there is a modify alternative in Council's packet where you can,

2095
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:16,800
I believe, change the course.

2096
02:35:18,620 --> 02:35:20,080
I'm looking at the attachment.

2097
02:35:20,080 --> 02:35:23,480
And then I do I do just want to mention as well

2098
02:35:23,480 --> 02:35:27,340
I think it's important to note if we do modify that route and include Park Avenue

2099
02:35:27,340 --> 02:35:30,980
The cost will go up and I don't have that estimate off the top of my head

2100
02:35:30,980 --> 02:35:37,480
So is could they just do all of lower Main Street rather than you know cutting around start it

2101
02:35:38,300 --> 02:35:42,160
You know at the top of that Hebrew corner and just go all lower Main Street and then

2102
02:35:42,160 --> 02:35:47,580
Connect to Poison Creek or is with that drastically effect because that would keep it on Main Street for a longer

2103
02:35:47,580 --> 02:35:49,940
So, from Heber down to Ninth Street?

2104
02:35:50,280 --> 02:35:55,040
Heber down to, yeah, to the trolley roundabout and jump on the Poison Creek Trail?

2105
02:35:55,620 --> 02:36:00,800
We could start at the top kind of by Zoom and then go down the street to Poison Creek.

2106
02:36:01,180 --> 02:36:06,240
We would end up closing Ninth Street and then funneling kind of down a narrow pathway.

2107
02:36:06,520 --> 02:36:11,600
One of the reasons we had chosen the Marriott Summit Watch Plaza is it is a larger space

2108
02:36:11,600 --> 02:36:14,820
for that amount of people to get through and there was some concern about having

2109
02:36:14,820 --> 02:36:20,540
a large group of people trying to get into a narrow pack, and I'll leave that at that.

2110
02:36:21,320 --> 02:36:27,140
And then I just want to clarify so that this is being organized by students, but this is

2111
02:36:27,140 --> 02:36:30,800
a community event where everyone in the community is welcome to come and join and march with

2112
02:36:30,800 --> 02:36:30,980
you.

2113
02:36:31,300 --> 02:36:31,660
Yes.

2114
02:36:32,100 --> 02:36:32,260
Okay.

2115
02:36:37,300 --> 02:36:45,960
So the preferred alternative listed in the packet has you leaving from between seventh

2116
02:36:45,960 --> 02:36:49,340
7th and 9th, not from Heber, we're just trying to get.

2117
02:36:52,120 --> 02:36:55,500
So the students would gather on Main Street.

2118
02:36:55,700 --> 02:36:57,620
We would remove parking from Main Street

2119
02:36:57,620 --> 02:37:00,440
between 7th Street and 9th Street.

2120
02:37:00,700 --> 02:37:03,220
We would keep both 7th and 9th themselves open

2121
02:37:03,220 --> 02:37:05,220
so traffic could continue to flow.

2122
02:37:05,720 --> 02:37:07,440
The students would gather kind of underneath

2123
02:37:07,440 --> 02:37:08,340
Townliff Bridge.

2124
02:37:08,920 --> 02:37:10,960
They would actually walk up Main Street

2125
02:37:10,960 --> 02:37:14,540
to the 7th Street where kind of like Atticus is

2126
02:37:14,540 --> 02:37:15,980
and go through the plaza there,

2127
02:37:15,980 --> 02:37:18,760
then catch Poison Creek down to South End City Park.

2128
02:37:18,760 --> 02:37:21,780
But that's not the preferred alternative.

2129
02:37:22,020 --> 02:37:25,800
If you were to go on Park Avenue, you would gather...

2130
02:37:25,800 --> 02:37:27,560
Still on Lower Main Street, likely.

2131
02:37:28,320 --> 02:37:28,540
Okay.

2132
02:37:28,800 --> 02:37:30,200
I would let Maya answer that.

2133
02:37:30,880 --> 02:37:33,280
You would most likely gather on Lower Main Street

2134
02:37:33,280 --> 02:37:34,700
and then move on to Park Avenue.

2135
02:37:35,080 --> 02:37:35,380
Okay.

2136
02:37:36,940 --> 02:37:41,020
If we, because time is of the essence here

2137
02:37:41,020 --> 02:37:43,560
and we don't meet next week to approve,

2138
02:37:43,560 --> 02:37:44,800
I'm just wondering if,

2139
02:37:48,040 --> 02:37:52,000
I don't know, if the additional fees, you have no idea.

2140
02:37:52,200 --> 02:37:57,240
I'm just wondering if somehow the community could come together with that GoFundMe site

2141
02:37:57,920 --> 02:38:03,600
and, you know, raise the extra money above what, you know, because don't we have to

2142
02:38:03,600 --> 02:38:05,100
approve a certain amount tonight?

2143
02:38:05,700 --> 02:38:07,860
And, all right, go ahead.

2144
02:38:08,480 --> 02:38:12,780
I was just going to say, I think it's almost as, I mean, I think the fees are

2145
02:38:12,780 --> 02:38:17,820
one side of it, but I do think that the other side of it is that it's a long ways to march.

2146
02:38:18,060 --> 02:38:21,720
The Women's March was fairly contained on Main Street, and then they went to the flag

2147
02:38:21,720 --> 02:38:24,880
pull-off, and that did cut off traffic and all kinds of things for a really long time.

2148
02:38:26,180 --> 02:38:29,200
But then the second year, when they just did the rally, it was just at City Park,

2149
02:38:29,380 --> 02:38:32,780
but making it all the way from Main Street to City Park for the rally.

2150
02:38:32,880 --> 02:38:35,280
But that's what they're going to do anyway if they go down Poison Creek Pass.

2151
02:38:35,600 --> 02:38:40,440
Yeah, but that's a long time to have those roads all closed, whereas the Women's

2152
02:38:40,440 --> 02:38:44,060
March you close Main Street it was kind of you cut off that circuit or if you cut

2153
02:38:44,060 --> 02:38:48,140
off one circuit but that's a long ways to cut off because most of all of our

2154
02:38:48,140 --> 02:38:51,680
transit that comes up and down Park Ave and everything like that so I feel like

2155
02:38:52,140 --> 02:38:56,080
if we can find a closed circuit or if the staff can find a closed circuit area

2156
02:38:56,080 --> 02:39:02,100
that they can march and still get to the stage they can find it it's not

2157
02:39:02,100 --> 02:39:05,640
what they're asking for this is ridiculous I mean they're asking for

2158
02:39:05,640 --> 02:39:10,140
something and we're talking about what can be found so the question is do

2159
02:39:10,140 --> 02:39:15,240
do we want to support their preferred alternative, or do we have reasons that we don't want to

2160
02:39:15,240 --> 02:39:20,720
support it? That's the question. We can certainly find all sorts of different options and variations

2161
02:39:20,720 --> 02:39:25,240
and all that kind of stuff, but it's pretty simple. They want to go down Park Avenue.

2162
02:39:25,740 --> 02:39:28,940
Do we want to enable that or not?

2163
02:39:29,860 --> 02:39:35,440
Well, Tim, and I just want to put it in context. It's not just a – maybe saying

2164
02:39:35,440 --> 02:39:40,580
the same thing, but the support is in the or enabling is in the context of the transportation

2165
02:39:41,480 --> 02:39:45,820
concerns that the staff has arisen and that's your authority not support for or against

2166
02:39:45,820 --> 02:39:46,020
the.

2167
02:39:46,120 --> 02:39:48,020
Yeah, you got to take all that into consideration.

2168
02:39:48,180 --> 02:39:51,800
Everything that's been presented, it's all been presented very clearly in the staff

2169
02:39:51,800 --> 02:39:52,220
report.

2170
02:39:52,680 --> 02:39:56,800
You know, there are such things as rolling closures which are not presented or discussed

2171
02:39:56,800 --> 02:39:57,200
here.

2172
02:39:57,500 --> 02:39:59,460
I would think that might be an option.

2173
02:39:59,920 --> 02:40:03,260
I don't know that we have the time to explore what the various options are

2174
02:40:03,260 --> 02:40:05,520
going down Park Avenue, but we still need to say,

2175
02:40:05,760 --> 02:40:08,700
do we support them going down Park Avenue or not?

2176
02:40:09,100 --> 02:40:11,500
And if it's a not, then it's pretty simple.

2177
02:40:12,020 --> 02:40:14,080
And if it's a yes, then maybe we need to do

2178
02:40:14,080 --> 02:40:15,580
a little additional work to figure out

2179
02:40:15,580 --> 02:40:17,500
how to make that happen and what it's gonna cost.

2180
02:40:18,040 --> 02:40:19,080
Well, and my question is,

2181
02:40:19,160 --> 02:40:20,940
do they want to go down Park Ave or Main Street?

2182
02:40:21,300 --> 02:40:22,300
Do you want to be on Main Street

2183
02:40:22,300 --> 02:40:23,160
or do you want to be on Park Ave?

2184
02:40:24,380 --> 02:40:27,820
We would love to finish at the bandstand,

2185
02:40:28,100 --> 02:40:30,100
but getting there, we just would like

2186
02:40:30,100 --> 02:40:31,720
to be in a more public setting.

2187
02:40:32,480 --> 02:40:54,420
So whether the city decides by doing that, it would be best to start on Lower Main and go directly to Park Avenue, or if the city doesn't mind closing down Main Street for that amount of time and starting on Main, then proceeding to Park Avenue then going down, I believe either would work just as long as we have a more public setting for everyone to see.

2188
02:40:54,920 --> 02:40:57,760
I think Steve was waiting and then we'll go right down the line.

2189
02:40:58,880 --> 02:41:04,940
The one thing I would just caution, I mean, I think it's fantastic what you guys have

2190
02:41:04,940 --> 02:41:07,400
done, and I've put it on my calendar, I will be there.

2191
02:41:08,520 --> 02:41:13,140
But I just want to be careful that we don't – this is a First Amendment thing, and

2192
02:41:13,140 --> 02:41:16,340
we don't want to get sucked into A, we love that the high school kids are doing

2193
02:41:16,340 --> 02:41:18,860
it, and B, that it's about gun control or whatever.

2194
02:41:19,300 --> 02:41:22,620
This could be – don't take this the wrong way.

2195
02:41:22,840 --> 02:41:26,880
This could be the First Amendment white supremacy movement, and we would have

2196
02:41:26,880 --> 02:41:31,820
to be having the same discussion about what to allow whether we agree with it or not because

2197
02:41:31,820 --> 02:41:39,940
it's a First Amendment, right? And so I struggle. I actually agree that what I think was a balance

2198
02:41:39,940 --> 02:41:45,180
of trying to find a good way for you guys to start and gather at a good place and end

2199
02:41:45,180 --> 02:41:51,000
and gather at a good place, but not basically shut down, you know, a Saturday in Main Street

2200
02:41:51,000 --> 02:41:56,700
and whatever and it feels like most of the discussion is around we love that you

2201
02:41:56,700 --> 02:42:02,180
guys are doing this and I for one I just I struggle to make that decision

2202
02:42:02,180 --> 02:42:06,000
because it's easy for me to go what if it was a completely different group with

2203
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:10,400
a completely different message but it's still a First Amendment discussion and

2204
02:42:10,400 --> 02:42:16,960
you can't you can't make these decisions based on the topic or or the

2205
02:42:16,960 --> 02:42:21,600
a person. I mean, it feels like you should, but you can't. And so I want to make sure

2206
02:42:21,600 --> 02:42:25,620
that whatever we decide about shutting down roads, that when the next group that comes

2207
02:42:25,620 --> 02:42:30,720
in here and you hate what they want to say, and you hate the fact that they're doing

2208
02:42:30,720 --> 02:42:33,720
it, that you're going to make the same decision, and you're going to shut down the road

2209
02:42:33,720 --> 02:42:38,060
or not, because that's what we have to do. I mean, that's the whole First Amendment

2210
02:42:38,060 --> 02:42:42,640
thing. You don't get to like or not like the people or the message.

2211
02:42:42,640 --> 02:42:46,660
And we already shut down Main Street for the women's march during Sundance.

2212
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:51,820
And so there's a precedent that we've already set, that we've already endorsed.

2213
02:42:52,540 --> 02:42:54,480
We've done it for the Science March.

2214
02:42:55,240 --> 02:43:02,280
And so now we're telling this event, and it's not a decision on the kids and support.

2215
02:43:02,560 --> 02:43:06,120
It's we're telling this event that they can't do the same thing to your point.

2216
02:43:06,280 --> 02:43:06,560
Exactly.

2217
02:43:06,960 --> 02:43:07,780
So I'm fine.

2218
02:43:07,780 --> 02:43:13,180
Again, I just want to make sure that whatever we decide, we realize that either we've already

2219
02:43:13,180 --> 02:43:18,500
set the precedent and all we're doing is following it, or we're reinforcing or setting

2220
02:43:18,500 --> 02:43:20,400
the precedent, and we're going to do it consistently.

2221
02:43:20,840 --> 02:43:26,380
This is a Saturday in the middle of a ski season, kind of a high season, and we're

2222
02:43:26,380 --> 02:43:31,520
talking about shutting down an area that's the town lift and the ski rental businesses

2223
02:43:31,520 --> 02:43:32,840
and all that stuff around there.

2224
02:43:32,840 --> 02:43:39,360
And I just, you know, I want to make sure that we agree that this isn't a one-off thing,

2225
02:43:39,520 --> 02:43:43,300
that this is the decision we're going to keep making, because I think that's kind

2226
02:43:43,300 --> 02:43:44,080
of what we're doing here.

2227
02:43:45,480 --> 02:43:45,700
Nan?

2228
02:43:47,260 --> 02:43:51,420
I believe with all my heart that this event deserves the same visibility

2229
02:43:51,420 --> 02:43:54,860
that we've given other First Amendment events, which is why I asked my question

2230
02:43:55,480 --> 02:43:56,680
at the very beginning here.

2231
02:43:56,680 --> 02:44:08,360
I really support, whatever, modify the alternative route, option number two there.

2232
02:44:08,800 --> 02:44:20,510
And if it's going to involve more city funds, then can we allow funding up to maybe $10,000 for that?

2233
02:44:20,630 --> 02:44:21,170
Is that possible?

2234
02:44:21,970 --> 02:44:23,230
For the fee waiver?

2235
02:44:24,530 --> 02:44:24,930
Yeah.

2236
02:44:24,930 --> 02:44:31,210
My only recommendation would be to go at least 12,000 just from a public safety perspective. Okay

2237
02:44:33,210 --> 02:44:33,770
Lynn

2238
02:44:36,100 --> 02:44:36,660
so

2239
02:44:36,660 --> 02:44:40,140
my mind has been changed and

2240
02:44:41,340 --> 02:44:44,280
thanks to all the comments here tonight and

2241
02:44:45,000 --> 02:44:49,800
You know something I thought about earlier today also was depending upon the numbers that come

2242
02:44:49,800 --> 02:44:56,200
There could be a huge bottleneck trying to fit into Poison Creek pathway. I'm sure that's something you talked about Jenny

2243
02:44:56,200 --> 02:44:57,420
Yeah.

2244
02:44:57,800 --> 02:44:58,580
Um.

2245
02:44:59,440 --> 02:44:59,940
Yeah.

2246
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:08,720
Rolling closure would be great. Just a question about the sentiment of the merchants on Lower

2247
02:45:08,720 --> 02:45:10,360
Maine and the outreach you've done.

2248
02:45:11,920 --> 02:45:17,020
So we targeted outreach specifically on Lower Maine. The outreach also went out in a newsletter

2249
02:45:17,020 --> 02:45:21,740
that went to all merchants and their settlement has been extremely supportive of the event.

2250
02:45:22,420 --> 02:45:27,340
There are not concerns because the road closure and the parking removal and all of that

2251
02:45:27,340 --> 02:45:29,720
is for a very short period of time.

2252
02:45:33,000 --> 02:45:34,540
I would leave that at that.

2253
02:45:35,200 --> 02:45:41,000
And Steve, to your point, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I bet Charlottesville,

2254
02:45:41,840 --> 02:45:46,980
Virginia would have a few different things to say about, oh, we have to treat every

2255
02:45:46,980 --> 02:45:54,380
First Amendment event the same. I don't believe we do. If we think it's an event

2256
02:45:54,820 --> 02:45:56,360
that's going to incite violence.

2257
02:45:56,580 --> 02:45:59,960
I don't think we need to treat it the same at all.

2258
02:46:00,240 --> 02:46:01,380
That's all I'm gonna say about that.

2259
02:46:02,360 --> 02:46:02,700
Becca.

2260
02:46:03,720 --> 02:46:06,660
Well, I absolutely hear what Steve is saying

2261
02:46:06,660 --> 02:46:07,260
and Tim is saying.

2262
02:46:07,360 --> 02:46:09,600
I think the hardest part is that this event

2263
02:46:09,600 --> 02:46:11,380
has a very different layout than any of the events

2264
02:46:11,380 --> 02:46:12,200
we've done in the past.

2265
02:46:13,120 --> 02:46:14,960
There was a reason that the Women's March

2266
02:46:14,960 --> 02:46:16,940
switched to just doing the rally at the park.

2267
02:46:17,540 --> 02:46:19,420
And a big part of that was, I believe,

2268
02:46:19,780 --> 02:46:21,960
because of trying to mitigate some impacts

2269
02:46:21,960 --> 02:46:23,540
on Main Street and during Sundance.

2270
02:46:23,980 --> 02:46:28,360
and you know the Science March I guess went down mainstream kind of around the

2271
02:46:28,360 --> 02:46:32,140
back but it was a very different time of year and so I do think that we have a

2272
02:46:33,000 --> 02:46:36,060
responsibility to balance you know wanting to support these great events

2273
02:46:36,060 --> 02:46:40,780
and making sure that people get seen and also trying to make sure that our

2274
02:46:40,780 --> 02:46:45,160
town functions at some level and doesn't end up shutting down so I

2275
02:46:45,160 --> 02:46:50,020
think if we can find a way if they're going to meet at park on like

2276
02:46:50,020 --> 02:46:55,020
in the coalition park area or the trolley roundabout and we can keep traffic on Main

2277
02:46:55,020 --> 02:46:59,380
Street keeps whatever 9th Street opens so the buses can keep flowing and they march

2278
02:46:59,380 --> 02:47:04,120
down that and shut down that part of Park Ave. That's great. If that's where you want

2279
02:47:04,120 --> 02:47:10,640
to go. I think doing like the combination of Main Street down Park Ave to the park

2280
02:47:10,640 --> 02:47:14,280
that starts to get a lot. I mean that's a much bigger event than anything we've

2281
02:47:14,280 --> 02:47:18,300
done or than any of the marches have been in the past. So that's kind of where

2282
02:47:20,120 --> 02:47:25,160
If it's your preferred option to go down Park Ave, I'm happy to support going down Park Ave,

2283
02:47:25,560 --> 02:47:28,880
making sure that we can keep as much running up the street, Main Street as possible.

2284
02:47:29,780 --> 02:47:35,300
And if you said, you know, we want to march down Main Street and that's our priority,

2285
02:47:35,720 --> 02:47:39,860
then I would say then march down Main Street and then jump on the Poison Creek

2286
02:47:39,860 --> 02:47:44,880
so we can keep the other side open, but that's kind of where I'm at.

2287
02:47:47,200 --> 02:47:52,480
Okay, just a really quick one. Just on staff's behalf, we have standing direction from City

2288
02:47:52,480 --> 02:47:57,140
Council to mitigate impacts on neighbors. We can't do a roll-in closure for parking.

2289
02:47:57,300 --> 02:48:01,380
We will have to remove parking on Park Ave. It's I want to make you aware. I know I see

2290
02:48:01,380 --> 02:48:04,940
where Council is going and I don't want to get in that way. However, Jenny's done,

2291
02:48:05,680 --> 02:48:10,020
she's followed Council direction. And I want you to know I am so passionate about

2292
02:48:10,020 --> 02:48:17,960
this event. I changed my donations on Amazon to go to the Brady Fund. I made a GoFundMe

2293
02:48:17,960 --> 02:48:23,500
donation while Maya was presenting, and it's March for Our Lives Park City in case you

2294
02:48:23,500 --> 02:48:28,520
want to know. And so I do want you to know that staff, we believe in this event, we

2295
02:48:28,520 --> 02:48:33,680
support it. And this is about residents and neighbors and impacts, and we do look

2296
02:48:33,680 --> 02:48:40,700
at it, and I think there's some truth between Steve and Lynn about whether you do or don't

2297
02:48:40,700 --> 02:48:45,260
have to treat it the same way. As staff, we do feel like we have to treat them all the

2298
02:48:45,260 --> 02:48:48,980
same way, and we want to bring you that objective, and that's why we bring your alternatives.

2299
02:48:50,480 --> 02:48:55,280
Yeah, Diane, and thanks for bringing that up. And I do truly believe that staff is

2300
02:48:55,280 --> 02:48:59,100
absolutely supportive, and that's been evidenced by how we've scrambled to pull

2301
02:48:59,100 --> 02:49:04,340
this together. I also believe that no matter where this is held, the community is going

2302
02:49:04,340 --> 02:49:07,600
to come out and support you. I think it's going to be a wonderful event and it could

2303
02:49:07,600 --> 02:49:12,040
be in the far reaches of town and we would come out and cheer you on. That being said,

2304
02:49:12,540 --> 02:49:17,300
I would like to give you the prominence you'd like on this and I would like to see

2305
02:49:17,300 --> 02:49:22,140
us work out a way to do that. I throw the question out to you, Jenny. Logistically

2306
02:49:22,140 --> 02:49:27,060
with both parking and with our transit system, what is less disruptive, coming down

2307
02:49:27,060 --> 02:49:32,320
main street and then going into Poison Creek or starting on to the trail so

2308
02:49:32,320 --> 02:49:37,040
essentially you only went after closed park or going starting on lower main and

2309
02:49:37,040 --> 02:49:41,880
just going down Park Avenue and closing that I'm not disrupting it having lower

2310
02:49:41,880 --> 02:49:45,240
main street and going on to the trail is far more or less disruptive to

2311
02:49:45,240 --> 02:49:50,480
transit so I that's why the recommendation from staff is the

2312
02:49:50,480 --> 02:49:55,000
recommended route I actually the question was if they were to start

2313
02:49:55,000 --> 02:49:58,760
at the top of Main Street we would close Main and let them go down and then join the trail versus

2314
02:49:58,760 --> 02:50:03,320
starting on the bottom of Main and going down Park Avenue. If it were an either or,

2315
02:50:03,660 --> 02:50:05,640
which one do you think would be less disruptive?

2316
02:50:08,100 --> 02:50:11,380
I think Main Street would be less disruptive to

2317
02:50:11,380 --> 02:50:19,260
transit. Okay. Yes please. So I would agree with that with Main Street. I think that

2318
02:50:19,260 --> 02:50:24,540
But we've talked, I heard rolling closures a couple of times, and rolling closure is

2319
02:50:24,540 --> 02:50:29,480
a good way to mitigate traffic, but it doesn't allow us to keep the event as safe as we would

2320
02:50:29,480 --> 02:50:30,000
want it to be.

2321
02:50:30,060 --> 02:50:35,960
We would rather have it be a hard closure, especially with the prominence of vehicular

2322
02:50:35,960 --> 02:50:38,460
attacks on these kind of things that have happened across the country.

2323
02:50:38,640 --> 02:50:43,320
So I don't think from public safety we'd feel good about the rolling closure part

2324
02:50:43,320 --> 02:50:43,620
of it.

2325
02:50:44,140 --> 02:50:47,500
And if we're going to close the street, main street's a lot easier for us to

2326
02:50:47,500 --> 02:50:47,740
do.

2327
02:50:47,740 --> 02:50:50,900
We would take less officers because there are less intersections.

2328
02:50:51,760 --> 02:50:54,540
So Main Street would be preferable for us.

2329
02:50:58,980 --> 02:51:04,120
Would you guys be okay? I mean, Main Street is actually a great location to have a march.

2330
02:51:04,740 --> 02:51:12,100
And you get, I mean, as far as like a backdrop drop goes, are you guys opposed to marching down Main Street if that actually...

2331
02:51:12,100 --> 02:51:13,600
No, we would love to march down Main Street.

2332
02:51:13,820 --> 02:51:17,960
And would that be preferable to park out if that would be actually easier for us to pull off?

2333
02:51:18,080 --> 02:51:19,120
Yes, absolutely.

2334
02:51:19,600 --> 02:51:26,420
Okay, well, that would be then my vote would be to give them the space to be seen, march

2335
02:51:26,420 --> 02:51:33,120
down Main Street, and then Hopon Poison Creek to get to the rally, and if that would work

2336
02:51:33,120 --> 02:51:37,000
for you, then I think that that might be a nice compromise, and it would be great

2337
02:51:37,000 --> 02:51:38,120
attention for you guys still.

2338
02:51:38,880 --> 02:51:40,520
How do the rest of you feel about that?

2339
02:51:43,490 --> 02:51:43,690
Okay.

2340
02:51:43,790 --> 02:51:44,330
Not to keep.

2341
02:51:48,330 --> 02:51:48,550
Does it work at all?

2342
02:51:48,550 --> 02:51:49,490
Then hit your button.

2343
02:51:49,490 --> 02:51:56,710
Oh, does it work at all to come from the Transit Center, gather in the Bear Bench, and then

2344
02:51:56,710 --> 02:51:58,590
go down from there, the Bear Bench Plaza?

2345
02:51:58,910 --> 02:52:03,530
I mean, I'm just kind of thinking about the ease of movement of everyone coming on transit.

2346
02:52:05,330 --> 02:52:07,510
I know the Bear Bench Plaza is not huge.

2347
02:52:09,250 --> 02:52:11,890
Just a thought, but I'm in support of this.

2348
02:52:11,890 --> 02:52:14,990
Jenny, are you going to use some brew pub parking lot as a gathering space?

2349
02:52:14,990 --> 02:52:20,370
It's likely we will need to take some of the parking in Brew Pub in order to stage for the event.

2350
02:52:20,930 --> 02:52:28,690
I do, without having Blake or Alfred here, but I would have, I'm concerned about impact to the transit center.

2351
02:52:28,910 --> 02:52:32,650
And that is going to be an important part of the day and getting the students and all the supporters.

2352
02:52:33,990 --> 02:52:39,530
So I would prefer to have them stage on upper main to make sure that we can operate that area.

2353
02:52:39,530 --> 02:52:45,470
And Jenny, that's the exact same route we're having two weeks later for the YSA Olympic celebration, right?

2354
02:52:45,810 --> 02:52:45,990
Correct.

2355
02:52:46,250 --> 02:52:47,590
Yeah, so we know that well.

2356
02:52:47,970 --> 02:52:48,250
Yes.

2357
02:52:50,050 --> 02:52:54,630
Okay, so I'm hearing from Council that they are supportive of pursuing that option.

2358
02:52:55,710 --> 02:53:00,790
Is Council supportive of paying the additional fees that it's going to cost for the mitigation?

2359
02:53:01,370 --> 02:53:01,850
Yes.

2360
02:53:02,230 --> 02:53:02,450
Okay.

2361
02:53:03,750 --> 02:53:05,310
What else do you need from us?

2362
02:53:05,390 --> 02:53:05,770
That's it, I think.

2363
02:53:05,950 --> 02:53:06,650
Thank you so much.

2364
02:53:06,650 --> 02:53:12,830
Well, we're going to need a motion, but Maya and to all the students here, I just want to

2365
02:53:12,830 --> 02:53:15,050
tell you how proud this community is of you.

2366
02:53:15,290 --> 02:53:18,450
And I happen to agree with Angela that you will save the world.

2367
02:53:19,150 --> 02:53:23,670
And I got to say, I really appreciate the fact you're not waiting to do it, that you're

2368
02:53:23,670 --> 02:53:24,790
getting started right now.

2369
02:53:25,730 --> 02:53:25,930
Thank you.

2370
02:53:26,730 --> 02:53:31,130
Your Honor, I'd like to move that we approve new business item number one with the modification

2371
02:53:31,130 --> 02:53:34,150
to the route and the amended fee waiver.

2372
02:53:34,830 --> 02:53:35,290
Second.

2373
02:53:35,290 --> 02:53:39,090
And before you vote, can I just suggest some clarity?

2374
02:53:39,510 --> 02:53:39,670
Please.

2375
02:53:41,050 --> 02:53:44,210
So incorporation amendment to finding a fact,

2376
02:53:44,330 --> 02:53:48,290
number one, to reflect the march on Main Street,

2377
02:53:49,570 --> 02:53:51,830
a new condition of approval, number 13,

2378
02:53:51,950 --> 02:53:56,870
to reflect a new Main Street closure plan as approved

2379
02:53:56,870 --> 02:54:01,090
by staff to minimize impacts to road closures

2380
02:54:01,090 --> 02:54:01,970
and transportation.

2381
02:54:01,970 --> 02:54:05,850
and number three fees not to exceed $12,000.

2382
02:54:07,230 --> 02:54:11,610
And I amend my motion to incorporate the comments from the city attorney.

2383
02:54:12,450 --> 02:54:13,090
Second.

2384
02:54:14,470 --> 02:54:17,870
Okay. Any discussion? All in favor?

2385
02:54:18,350 --> 02:54:18,670
Aye.

2386
02:54:19,210 --> 02:54:19,670
Any opposed?

2387
02:54:20,890 --> 02:54:22,290
Congrats. You have a march.

2388
02:54:22,870 --> 02:54:23,470
Thank you.

2389
02:54:39,560 --> 02:54:42,960
Okay. Jenny, let's talk about a parade down Main Street.

2390
02:54:43,340 --> 02:54:43,460
Yes.

2391
02:54:49,610 --> 02:54:53,470
Mr. Mayor and City Council, I do want to introduce Chris Finney.

2392
02:54:53,950 --> 02:54:55,850
Chris Finney, oh, sorry.

2393
02:54:59,040 --> 02:54:59,620
You guys ready?

2394
02:55:00,200 --> 02:55:00,680
Yeah, I'm sorry.

2395
02:55:02,570 --> 02:55:04,410
I wanted to introduce Chris Finney.

2396
02:55:04,530 --> 02:55:05,630
Chris Finney has been with us.

2397
02:55:06,110 --> 02:55:07,630
We actually got him to start on Halloween.

2398
02:55:08,410 --> 02:55:10,250
He's the Special Events Coordinator.

2399
02:55:11,210 --> 02:55:13,530
And tonight is his first Council presentation.

2400
02:55:13,930 --> 02:55:17,070
So I'm going to let him take it away.

2401
02:55:17,070 --> 02:55:19,750
and then we'll turn it over to Council questions.

2402
02:55:20,990 --> 02:55:23,410
You got to do the song first, Chris.

2403
02:55:23,930 --> 02:55:24,970
We have the dance.

2404
02:55:26,310 --> 02:55:26,990
We have hazing.

2405
02:55:27,830 --> 02:55:29,370
Tim will lead you in the song.

2406
02:55:32,990 --> 02:55:35,250
Thanks, Jenny.

2407
02:55:38,140 --> 02:55:41,180
I'm here tonight to get approval for the changes

2408
02:55:41,180 --> 02:55:43,960
for the Thin Air Innovation Festival,

2409
02:55:44,200 --> 02:55:47,300
level three event with some significant changes.

2410
02:55:47,300 --> 02:55:58,800
This year the Chamber has partnered with Youth Sports Alliance and the Snow Sports Industry

2411
02:55:58,800 --> 02:56:05,560
Association of America to bring an additional parade to the festival.

2412
02:56:07,300 --> 02:56:14,000
The parade will be held on Friday evening from 5 p.m. to 6 p.m.

2413
02:56:14,920 --> 02:56:29,260
The parade is for returning Olympic and Paralympic athletes, so the YSA of athletes will be marching

2414
02:56:29,260 --> 02:56:35,440
with their Olympic heroes down Main Street will be a good community experience for us

2415
02:56:35,440 --> 02:56:39,420
to celebrate our local community and all the returning Olympians.

2416
02:56:39,420 --> 02:56:44,960
We did this four years ago and it was a huge success and we're excited to do this again.

2417
02:56:45,800 --> 02:56:51,040
Some of the impacts that will come around with this added parade will have some additional street closures.

2418
02:56:51,560 --> 02:57:00,700
We'll be closing up our main street, gathering in the brew pub parking lot, walking down Main Street to 7th Street.

2419
02:57:03,380 --> 02:57:08,180
some increased public security as well and some additional parking will be

2420
02:57:08,180 --> 02:57:14,220
removed on on Main Street as well as the east side of Park Ave between 7th and

2421
02:57:15,500 --> 02:57:23,080
9th. Increased city fees last year the fees were roughly $3,500 this year the

2422
02:57:23,080 --> 02:57:28,540
fees will grow to about $9,100, a difference of about $5,500.

2423
02:57:30,480 --> 02:57:33,440
The organizers have applied for a fee reduction waiver.

2424
02:57:35,000 --> 02:57:42,000
The economic development manager is in agreement and recommends 100% free reduction to this

2425
02:57:42,000 --> 02:57:44,600
because of the community benefits of this event.

2426
02:57:45,680 --> 02:57:52,960
Normally, this can go through the city manager, but as noted in the last piece here, they

2427
02:57:52,960 --> 02:57:58,060
We're over our $2,000 threshold, so we need council's approval for this.

2428
02:58:00,980 --> 02:58:03,900
I'm here tonight with Bob Kolar as well.

2429
02:58:04,660 --> 02:58:07,640
He's a representative from the city chamber.

2430
02:58:08,260 --> 02:58:09,520
Bob, do you have anything to add?

2431
02:58:11,540 --> 02:58:12,920
Jenny, do you have anything extra to add?

2432
02:58:13,360 --> 02:58:14,300
I do not.

2433
02:58:14,480 --> 02:58:16,360
I do just want to, again, make the point.

2434
02:58:16,740 --> 02:58:21,700
I think the partnership that the chamber has leveraged with the SIA as well as YSA

2435
02:58:22,200 --> 02:58:24,300
and bringing a post-Olympic parade.

2436
02:58:24,300 --> 02:58:29,440
I think it both celebrates our community and creates a lot of vibrancy.

2437
02:58:29,600 --> 02:58:35,940
It's also the last weekend at the resorts in a wonderful time to celebrate the winter season that we've had

2438
02:58:36,620 --> 02:58:41,740
And we are recommending that full fee reduction for this year for a one-time one-time thing

2439
02:58:41,740 --> 02:58:46,980
When Bob was planning a back when the fee reduction was due

2440
02:58:46,980 --> 02:58:52,420
We were not aware of this potential partnership. And so that that's why it wasn't done through the process before

2441
02:58:55,960 --> 02:58:56,560
Nice job, Chris.

2442
02:58:56,820 --> 02:58:57,400
Thanks, Andy.

2443
02:58:58,000 --> 02:58:58,320
Questions?

2444
02:58:58,740 --> 02:58:59,380
I do have a question.

2445
02:59:00,120 --> 02:59:03,760
So is there going to be a – there's going to be a concert right after this?

2446
02:59:03,860 --> 02:59:07,180
I mean, is it – do the two butt up against one another so everybody can see it?

2447
02:59:07,180 --> 02:59:12,440
So the way that it'll run is the parade will come down Main Street to 7th Street.

2448
02:59:12,780 --> 02:59:17,840
All the kids from the YSA will then funnel into the area of Lower Main Street.

2449
02:59:17,940 --> 02:59:20,560
They will also be blocked off for the concert that night.

2450
02:59:21,400 --> 02:59:26,580
The athletes will then be shuttled up into the town lift plaza where they'll be doing

2451
02:59:26,580 --> 02:59:32,320
autographs, interviews, things like that, and then up onto the stage for the concert where

2452
02:59:32,320 --> 02:59:34,920
they'll be doing some more interviews and announcements and celebration.

2453
02:59:35,900 --> 02:59:41,540
So the parade is scheduled to end around 6 p.m. and with all that other activity,

2454
02:59:41,820 --> 02:59:45,640
we're hoping that the concert will start roughly at 7.30 and go for an hour and

2455
02:59:45,640 --> 02:59:45,860
a half.

2456
02:59:46,120 --> 02:59:46,420
Okay.

2457
02:59:48,240 --> 02:59:51,220
Are we waiving any other fees for this event?

2458
02:59:51,680 --> 02:59:59,500
Is it just an additional $9,000 fee waiver on top of other fee waivers that we're already approving?

2459
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:00,500
That's it.

2460
03:00:00,740 --> 03:00:05,140
The Finnair Innovation Festival has paid all of their city service fees in the past, and

2461
03:00:05,140 --> 03:00:09,900
so the $9,100 is all of the city services that we anticipate.

2462
03:00:13,350 --> 03:00:21,610
Well, I've loved the Finnair Innovation Festival, the concept, and bringing it right at the

2463
03:00:21,610 --> 03:00:27,250
end of the season when everyone's, you know, might be raining outside, that's been wonderful.

2464
03:00:27,250 --> 03:00:32,990
And then bringing this other part of who we are, which is about innovation and art and

2465
03:00:32,990 --> 03:00:39,350
culture and adventure, all kinds of wonderful things that the guest speakers and the different

2466
03:00:39,350 --> 03:00:43,530
panels and that sort of thing bring with thin air.

2467
03:00:43,690 --> 03:00:50,110
And then to combine it with this other thing that we are, which is sport, young athletes,

2468
03:00:50,590 --> 03:00:52,950
and I think it's wonderful.

2469
03:00:53,150 --> 03:00:54,670
So I'm really excited about it.

2470
03:01:00,660 --> 03:01:01,140
Okay.

2471
03:01:01,140 --> 03:01:06,180
We will now open the public hearing so if you'd like to make a comment on this item

2472
03:01:06,180 --> 03:01:07,600
Please step forward. We

2473
03:01:10,090 --> 03:01:11,210
will close the public hearing

2474
03:01:12,790 --> 03:01:14,910
Any other thoughts or emotion?

2475
03:01:19,990 --> 03:01:23,390
Mr. Mayor I move that we approve new business item number two

2476
03:01:24,730 --> 03:01:33,190
Second second all in favor. Hi. Okay. It passes. Thank you so much. Thank you one for one. Good job

2477
03:01:40,840 --> 03:01:46,420
Next up, new business item three, a consideration to approve ordinance 2018-10.

2478
03:01:48,550 --> 03:01:48,950
Hey, Bruce.

2479
03:01:49,650 --> 03:01:53,030
Mr. Mayor, City Council, Bruce Erickson for the Planning Department.

2480
03:01:53,810 --> 03:01:56,010
These are Tippi Moran's projects.

2481
03:01:56,270 --> 03:02:00,010
She was up taking care of two other Platt amendments last night,

2482
03:02:00,010 --> 03:02:04,190
so we've sent her off to study for her professional exams.

2483
03:02:04,190 --> 03:02:12,350
This first item is an amendment to a condominium

2484
03:02:12,350 --> 03:02:16,810
platt for 108 square feet to enclose the space under an existing building in

2485
03:02:16,810 --> 03:02:20,990
Queen Esther Village Planning Commission approved it February 14th

2486
03:02:21,750 --> 03:02:26,170
unanimously. Staff recommends an approval with fines of fact conclusion

2487
03:02:26,170 --> 03:02:27,890
the law and the ordinance as submitted.

2488
03:02:30,620 --> 03:02:31,080
Great.

2489
03:02:32,660 --> 03:02:33,120
Questions?

2490
03:02:35,060 --> 03:02:35,520
Yeah.

2491
03:02:36,980 --> 03:02:41,500
How many other of the Queen Esther condominiums have had the same?

2492
03:02:41,660 --> 03:02:41,980
A couple.

2493
03:02:43,560 --> 03:02:45,600
This is not an uncommon thing in Queen Esther.

2494
03:02:45,900 --> 03:02:46,040
Yeah.

2495
03:02:46,300 --> 03:02:47,300
Looks like it makes all kinds of sense.

2496
03:02:47,300 --> 03:02:49,320
The architecture lends itself to doing this.

2497
03:02:49,860 --> 03:02:50,320
Exactly.

2498
03:02:54,410 --> 03:02:54,750
Okay.

2499
03:02:55,510 --> 03:02:56,270
No more questions.

2500
03:02:56,590 --> 03:02:57,910
So we'll open this for a public hearing.

2501
03:02:58,550 --> 03:03:00,230
Anybody would like to speak on this matter?

2502
03:03:00,230 --> 03:03:07,590
please step forward okay we will close the public hearing do we have a motion

2503
03:03:07,590 --> 03:03:11,810
your honor I'd like to move that we approve new business item number three

2504
03:03:11,810 --> 03:03:20,210
second okay all in favor hi it passes on a new business item for consideration

2505
03:03:20,210 --> 03:03:25,870
to approve ordinance number 2018-11 Bruce welcome back thank you Mr. Mayor

2506
03:03:25,870 --> 03:03:30,910
this is 925 Woodside a replat of a lot and a half with an existing house on it

2507
03:03:30,910 --> 03:03:37,690
The lot line goes through the kitchen planning commission approve this with the unanimous recommendation no public comment on 14 February

2508
03:03:37,690 --> 03:03:39,970
We recommend approval

2509
03:03:41,070 --> 03:03:43,450
Findings of fact conclusions the law and the ordinance has written

2510
03:03:43,450 --> 03:03:46,490
Okay questions

2511
03:03:48,690 --> 03:03:51,310
Nothing, okay. We'll open the public hearing

2512
03:03:52,390 --> 03:03:54,010
Anybody like to comment on this?

2513
03:03:54,470 --> 03:03:56,110
We will close the public hearing

2514
03:03:56,830 --> 03:04:02,150
Do we have a motion your honor? I would like to move that we approve new business item number four

2515
03:04:02,150 --> 03:04:03,690
Do we have a second?

2516
03:04:03,690 --> 03:04:04,030
Second.

2517
03:04:04,970 --> 03:04:05,410
Sorry.

2518
03:04:05,730 --> 03:04:06,550
You can have it.

2519
03:04:06,570 --> 03:04:07,250
Did you get that, Michelle?

2520
03:04:08,630 --> 03:04:10,270
I think we'll give it to Steve.

2521
03:04:11,490 --> 03:04:13,190
So just a quick comment, Mr. Mayor.

2522
03:04:13,570 --> 03:04:21,050
Both of these plots were deemed complete in November of 2017,

2523
03:04:21,470 --> 03:04:26,690
and they were completely processed by March of 2018.

2524
03:04:26,910 --> 03:04:29,770
That's a four-month cycle for both of these plots.

2525
03:04:29,770 --> 03:04:37,690
So plant them around and really move these through the system and we appreciate our good work. Thank you. Nice. Yeah, well done

2526
03:04:37,690 --> 03:04:42,970
Okay, so all in favor. Hi. Hi any pose it passes

2527
03:04:43,450 --> 03:04:46,890
I think this next item is going to take a take a little while

2528
03:04:46,890 --> 03:04:50,050
So we're going to take a short break first five to ten minutes. We'll reconvene

2529
03:05:29,770 --> 03:05:33,350
They were not in conversation, so I'll join them and get them.

2530
03:06:33,510 --> 03:06:35,950
You're the owner of one of the bonanza lots?

2531
03:06:36,830 --> 03:06:42,730
Yeah, I haven't been to a meeting since she got over here.

2532
03:06:42,950 --> 03:06:44,450
Well, thank you. Thank you to meet you.

2533
03:06:47,150 --> 03:06:53,850
I was on the school board here, and it was a really good discussion at that point that she brought it out.

2534
03:06:53,850 --> 03:06:56,850
And then it was great that she sort of worked it out like this.

2535
03:06:59,850 --> 03:07:06,250
You want to encourage you, but it's so important that we don't latch on to stuff, especially first amendment stuff.

2536
03:07:06,790 --> 03:07:10,050
Yeah, because we don't have that much work, you know, in the school board.

2537
03:07:11,190 --> 03:07:13,170
Yeah, oh yeah, when they were going to be out.

2538
03:07:15,530 --> 03:07:17,810
You got to let people do it.

2539
03:07:17,810 --> 03:07:19,850
And I don't know if you're going to make it again.

2540
03:07:20,230 --> 03:07:20,810
It's awesome.

2541
03:07:21,170 --> 03:07:21,710
Well, thank you.

2542
03:07:59,370 --> 03:08:01,430
We will reconvene.

2543
03:08:02,670 --> 03:08:03,110
Welcome.

2544
03:08:04,170 --> 03:08:05,590
Heinrich, you want to kick us off?

2545
03:08:05,710 --> 03:08:07,190
Good evening, Mayor and Council.

2546
03:08:07,370 --> 03:08:10,830
This item is on page 101 of your packet.

2547
03:08:11,550 --> 03:08:15,590
I know we're running a little bit late this evening, so I just have a very brief overview

2548
03:08:15,590 --> 03:08:19,370
view of, A, how we got here, and B, what we're asking you this evening.

2549
03:08:20,450 --> 03:08:22,990
And then Wendy Fisher is here from Utah Open Lands.

2550
03:08:23,490 --> 03:08:30,530
And Mike Ogie is here as well if you have some technical aspects.

2551
03:08:30,930 --> 03:08:39,690
So not to belabor this, but obviously we acquired this property June 15th this year.

2552
03:08:39,690 --> 03:08:45,170
On July 13th, you basically established a planning protocol or process.

2553
03:08:45,410 --> 03:08:50,370
That graphic there, to your right, was the aspect of the advisory groups that the previous

2554
03:08:50,370 --> 03:08:54,610
council appointed and how the actual planning process will work.

2555
03:08:54,690 --> 03:09:00,870
The important aspect of that is you selected Utah Open Lands to be the consultant for

2556
03:09:00,870 --> 03:09:06,430
the land trust to hold the conservation easement, and they were tasked with creating

2557
03:09:06,430 --> 03:09:07,590
a resource inventory.

2558
03:09:09,090 --> 03:09:23,850
We have met with Council August 31st in November 9th, and at the November 9th meeting you directed staff in Utah Open Lands to continue the resource inventory through the winter.

2559
03:09:24,050 --> 03:09:28,570
So we haven't met for some time, but that was because we have been doing the winter inventory.

2560
03:09:29,250 --> 03:09:33,570
We've also had two or two advisory committee meetings in August and November.

2561
03:09:33,570 --> 03:09:36,830
The notes from the November meeting are in your staff report.

2562
03:09:37,570 --> 03:09:39,290
And then we also had an open house.

2563
03:09:39,770 --> 03:09:44,270
Not a lot of people attended that, but Wendy and I spoke to a few people as another aspect.

2564
03:09:44,530 --> 03:09:49,630
So the purpose this evening, excuse me, Utah Open Lands has closed the resource inventory

2565
03:09:49,630 --> 03:09:53,510
and they've created a conservation easement intention and use report.

2566
03:09:54,030 --> 03:09:59,850
At a very high level that identifies the environmental or conservation purposes.

2567
03:10:00,090 --> 03:10:01,770
You'll hear a lot about watershed this evening.

2568
03:10:01,770 --> 03:10:07,070
it also has some recommended permitted and prohibited uses. So we are taking

2569
03:10:07,070 --> 03:10:11,210
this resource inventory the scientific purpose and we're condensing it into a

2570
03:10:11,210 --> 03:10:18,530
document that we will adopt hopefully on May 3rd which is at the bottom. A huge

2571
03:10:18,530 --> 03:10:22,650
component of that is public comment. These meetings as well as the

2572
03:10:22,650 --> 03:10:26,770
technical and stakeholder meetings are important as well as we're asking

2573
03:10:26,770 --> 03:10:34,610
Council to have staff host an open house. So tentatively at your direction we will host

2574
03:10:34,610 --> 03:10:40,950
the stakeholder and technical resource committee meetings on March 23rd and then a public open

2575
03:10:40,950 --> 03:10:52,050
house likely in these chambers on April 2nd. What exactly are we discussing as Park City-owned

2576
03:10:52,050 --> 03:10:58,370
property and control. There is an exhibit in front of you. Yellow is the outline of

2577
03:10:58,370 --> 03:11:03,790
the Bonanza flat property. There are a few in holdings there that are blocked out. There's

2578
03:11:03,790 --> 03:11:07,890
one that looks like a little triangle and then a rectangle there on the side. So that

2579
03:11:07,890 --> 03:11:13,390
is property that is not owned by Park City Municipal. So we are discussing that property

2580
03:11:13,390 --> 03:11:20,850
that we purchased collectively, the community, for $38 million. What we are not discussing

2581
03:11:20,850 --> 03:11:26,330
have control over in this discussion are the Orange County roads and that's a

2582
03:11:26,330 --> 03:11:29,090
very important aspect because I think you'll hear a little bit about access

2583
03:11:29,090 --> 03:11:33,630
this evening and the discussions for permitted and prohibited uses will not

2584
03:11:33,630 --> 03:11:42,030
include those corridors so thanks so if it's okay with you your honor I'd like

2585
03:11:42,030 --> 03:11:46,910
to just kick it over to Wendy but if you have any questions for myself please

2586
03:11:46,910 --> 03:11:47,450
Please let me know.

2587
03:11:48,170 --> 03:11:49,770
Is it okay with that?

2588
03:11:50,110 --> 03:11:54,350
Okay, Wendy, Mike, excellent job on both your inventory and your report.

2589
03:11:55,010 --> 03:11:55,410
Thank you.

2590
03:11:55,650 --> 03:11:56,310
Thank you very much.

2591
03:11:56,370 --> 03:12:01,010
And I want to reiterate something that Heinrich said in part so that the public knows where

2592
03:12:01,010 --> 03:12:06,030
we're going with this and also so they can understand why we've set it up this way.

2593
03:12:07,350 --> 03:12:11,810
This does not contain all of the prohibited uses and all of the permitted uses.

2594
03:12:12,270 --> 03:12:16,070
There's some kind of high level things that Utah Open Landers wanted to get, some

2595
03:12:16,070 --> 03:12:20,710
council direction on in terms of policy. If you disagree with some of the things we should

2596
03:12:20,710 --> 03:12:24,130
know now because we don't want to take them forward in terms of talking with the technical

2597
03:12:24,130 --> 03:12:30,470
and the jurisdictional stakeholders as well as some of these public meetings. But again,

2598
03:12:30,710 --> 03:12:35,570
the idea is to actually spark discussion and to be able to talk about some of these

2599
03:12:35,570 --> 03:12:40,690
different issues based on the things that we are seeing. And I just, I have to reflect

2600
03:12:40,690 --> 03:12:47,850
But quickly, from my perspective, I am used to coming to public hearings, especially after

2601
03:12:47,850 --> 03:12:55,290
this last legislative session, ready to mourn the loss of something that we love, you know,

2602
03:12:55,390 --> 03:12:58,370
open space, the ability to protect more open space.

2603
03:12:59,370 --> 03:13:05,850
And we could be here today to rally against potential development of a piece of property

2604
03:13:05,850 --> 03:13:12,810
against the loss of moose habitat and flammulated owl habitat and pika and a number of other

2605
03:13:12,810 --> 03:13:19,410
things. We could be here today to mourn the loss of memories of hiking and snowshoeing

2606
03:13:19,410 --> 03:13:26,170
and all sorts of other uses up there, but we're not. And I want to thank the council

2607
03:13:26,750 --> 03:13:35,470
for your vision back before the bond, being willing to take a risk to ensure that there

2608
03:13:35,470 --> 03:13:41,510
There was a chance that we would be here tonight to talk about how we move forward in the preservation

2609
03:13:41,510 --> 03:13:43,850
and the stewardship of Bonanza Flat.

2610
03:13:44,210 --> 03:13:50,110
And to me, after 27 years, recognizing that we're not making any more land, that we're

2611
03:13:50,110 --> 03:13:55,850
actually losing more land, this is a big and a bold step and it is not last on Utah

2612
03:13:55,850 --> 03:14:01,790
open lands that without the $25 million bond that was passed with Park City and

2613
03:14:01,790 --> 03:14:04,790
your leadership in moving forward and protecting Bonanza Flat.

2614
03:14:04,790 --> 03:14:12,290
We wouldn't even be here tonight talking about what I think is an exciting opportunity to ensure stewardship and preservation of this property long-term.

2615
03:14:12,430 --> 03:14:13,050
So thank you.

2616
03:14:14,950 --> 03:14:27,490
The management plan, the hope is that it will go ahead and get set the intentions down, not just of the council, but with your policy direction understanding where the public and others are coming from.

2617
03:14:27,990 --> 03:14:33,650
So, when we talk about conservation easements, we talk about in the report, I want you to

2618
03:14:33,650 --> 03:14:37,830
think about kind of these ideas, kind of the sustainability of compatibility, which is

2619
03:14:37,830 --> 03:14:40,650
that even conservation values can come into conflict.

2620
03:14:41,070 --> 03:14:44,850
And that's something that we understand really well from Utah-Villain's perspective.

2621
03:14:45,290 --> 03:14:47,730
You also see it from a recreational use perspective.

2622
03:14:48,710 --> 03:14:53,890
We've heard over and over again, hiking trails, wanting a hiking-only trail as opposed

2623
03:14:53,890 --> 03:14:55,430
to a hiking and a biking trail.

2624
03:14:55,430 --> 03:14:59,670
Well, sometimes uses can actually come into conflict, but sometimes conservation values

2625
03:14:59,670 --> 03:14:59,970
can

2626
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:05,540
And we come into conflict. And we detailed in the report under the IRS code where the conservation

2627
03:15:05,540 --> 03:15:12,920
values rest. And there's scenic and there's wildlife habitat and natural systems, public

2628
03:15:12,920 --> 03:15:19,060
recreation and education. But even public recreation can come into conflict with, for example, wildlife

2629
03:15:19,060 --> 03:15:23,820
habitat. So what we're trying to do is balance those conservation values so that we can sustain

2630
03:15:23,820 --> 03:15:30,520
them and protect them. Another concept that we talk about this is just basically in this report is

2631
03:15:30,520 --> 03:15:35,440
the carrying capacity of an ecosystem and we're talking about that in terms of human and wildlife

2632
03:15:35,440 --> 03:15:44,000
species. And bonanza flat itself cannot sustain the carrying capacity for other properties. We

2633
03:15:44,000 --> 03:15:48,720
have to really look at it within itself. And so one of the things that you'll see over and over

2634
03:15:48,720 --> 03:15:53,740
again in the report that we've recommended, is a no net increase in use on the property.

2635
03:15:54,260 --> 03:15:58,560
But I caution you that that necessarily means that there are some decisions that have to

2636
03:15:58,560 --> 03:16:01,980
be made and there has to be some monitoring of the degrees of use as we go forward.

2637
03:16:02,520 --> 03:16:06,320
And then the final concept that we have is not loving the property to death.

2638
03:16:07,080 --> 03:16:14,820
We know that on any given day in Bonanza there are 250 to 350 people on a regular

2639
03:16:14,820 --> 03:16:16,440
basis that came to Bonanza.

2640
03:16:16,440 --> 03:16:23,720
That's a lot of people and there's just no way without doing some higher level of management

2641
03:16:24,480 --> 03:16:27,700
to be able to sustain that on the landscape over time.

2642
03:16:28,360 --> 03:16:31,800
And so that's something else that we think is important that we've kind of talked about

2643
03:16:31,800 --> 03:16:35,260
with respect to this report.

2644
03:16:36,300 --> 03:16:41,400
I also want to talk a little bit about the fact that it's important to understand

2645
03:16:42,240 --> 03:16:48,400
Regardless of how the property has been used to date, as the landowner, you now have the

2646
03:16:48,400 --> 03:16:53,480
– you're in the position of making the decision of how you will transition your new

2647
03:16:53,480 --> 03:16:54,880
ownership into stewardship.

2648
03:16:55,580 --> 03:16:58,340
Mining, for example, is a historic use on the property.

2649
03:16:58,840 --> 03:17:04,040
And while its remnants are a cultural reminder and a point for greater cultural understanding,

2650
03:17:04,260 --> 03:17:08,520
we are not recommending that mining continue on the property that we recommend as a

2651
03:17:08,520 --> 03:17:09,140
prohibited use.

2652
03:17:09,140 --> 03:17:14,100
I know that seems obvious, but I guess what I'm saying is this is an opportunity for you

2653
03:17:14,100 --> 03:17:18,900
to look at this in terms of its undeveloped state and moving forward from that perspective.

2654
03:17:21,440 --> 03:17:24,260
I think the – can you hit the next slide?

2655
03:17:25,540 --> 03:17:32,260
One of the things that we did is after our first brush at the resource inventory, there

2656
03:17:32,260 --> 03:17:34,200
were two things that the council directed us to do.

2657
03:17:34,200 --> 03:17:40,720
We went back to our stakeholders and we, as Heinrich said, held a public forum,

2658
03:17:40,840 --> 03:17:44,220
and then you asked us to continue the inventory into the winter.

2659
03:17:44,660 --> 03:17:48,880
And so I want to also discern that there are parts of this report that are recommendations,

2660
03:17:49,440 --> 03:17:57,820
and then there are parts of this report that are essentially the technical resource inventory that we completed into the winter.

2661
03:17:58,360 --> 03:18:01,760
And the resource inventory is really just about the data that we collected.

2662
03:18:01,760 --> 03:18:05,940
It is not necessarily some major study at this point.

2663
03:18:06,080 --> 03:18:09,240
It's the technical data that we discovered while we were out there.

2664
03:18:09,720 --> 03:18:13,640
So one of the things that the jurisdictional and the technical stakeholders,

2665
03:18:13,880 --> 03:18:18,800
and we agree with this, had discussed was this idea of creating different zones.

2666
03:18:19,500 --> 03:18:22,500
The map that we have is an approximate boundary.

2667
03:18:22,740 --> 03:18:27,020
It's really, again, we're talking about the 30,000-foot level here.

2668
03:18:27,420 --> 03:18:29,960
So one of the ways we started looking at the different zones

2669
03:18:29,960 --> 03:18:37,200
is it's hard to say that there are areas on bonanza that haven't been touched.

2670
03:18:37,260 --> 03:18:39,520
There are areas on bonanza that have been touched.

2671
03:18:39,920 --> 03:18:41,960
And we see that in some of the back country area.

2672
03:18:42,120 --> 03:18:48,260
Right now in the back country area there is actually a yurt that still exists on the property.

2673
03:18:48,620 --> 03:18:53,220
So we're trying to look at all of the different things that are occurring on the property and create these zones.

2674
03:18:53,600 --> 03:18:59,560
But the bottom line is that we think fundamentally the areas at the top of the watershed

2675
03:18:59,560 --> 03:19:04,080
should have some of that more pristine value and pristine protection.

2676
03:19:04,560 --> 03:19:08,580
That is not to say that there aren't some human infrastructure

2677
03:19:08,580 --> 03:19:13,340
or man-made structures that you may find in that particular area,

2678
03:19:13,600 --> 03:19:16,540
but we are proposing that we start to create these zones

2679
03:19:16,540 --> 03:19:19,060
that would limit certain uses in certain areas,

2680
03:19:19,340 --> 03:19:22,820
which actually was one of the things that came out from our technical

2681
03:19:22,820 --> 03:19:24,920
and our jurisdictional stakeholders.

2682
03:19:25,120 --> 03:19:27,400
So if you agree with this idea of having these zones,

2683
03:19:27,400 --> 03:19:33,600
we would want to go back to our jurisdictional and technical and the public and maybe come back and refine some of those zones.

2684
03:19:33,840 --> 03:19:38,720
But I think that that gives you a pretty good idea of what we would propose in those different zones.

2685
03:19:38,960 --> 03:19:45,000
The map might shift a little bit, but this is the general idea of what we would propose in those different zones.

2686
03:19:48,850 --> 03:19:53,750
I also want to talk about Utah Open Lands recommended prohibited uses.

2687
03:19:53,750 --> 03:20:03,710
And again, this doesn't, you know, there are things like mining, there are things like subdivision and development of the property that we are saying are going to be prohibited uses.

2688
03:20:03,850 --> 03:20:08,750
But we felt that there were some, quite frankly, that we have heard there may be issues in.

2689
03:20:08,870 --> 03:20:18,350
And so we wanted to make sure that we were clear about our recommendations that we do not think that there should be motorized use on the property in the summer and the winter.

2690
03:20:19,170 --> 03:20:24,130
Again, and I'll talk about this specifically with snowmobiles because we did talk about

2691
03:20:24,130 --> 03:20:31,370
that particular issue, but this does not include the right of ways that Heinrich put

2692
03:20:31,370 --> 03:20:33,290
up that you guys don't have jurisdiction on.

2693
03:20:33,390 --> 03:20:35,710
This is just with respect to bonanza flat.

2694
03:20:36,230 --> 03:20:40,610
There are details and levels of details and complexity that move on to that, but we

2695
03:20:40,610 --> 03:20:44,470
are suggesting that there not be motorized use of the property.

2696
03:20:45,830 --> 03:20:46,350
Hunting.

2697
03:20:46,350 --> 03:20:51,990
Hunting, we also do not see that hunting on the property is appropriate based on some

2698
03:20:51,990 --> 03:20:53,130
of the recreational uses.

2699
03:20:53,370 --> 03:20:59,270
However, we do recognize that hunting is an appropriate management tool in certain circumstances,

2700
03:20:59,270 --> 03:21:03,350
and we've seen that on other property, and so we don't want to forestall it completely,

2701
03:21:03,890 --> 03:21:07,050
but yes, we would see primarily prohibiting hunting on the property.

2702
03:21:07,590 --> 03:21:11,590
And we also see prohibiting overhead transportation and infrastructure.

2703
03:21:11,590 --> 03:21:16,210
infrastructure, and we would want to include in that even aerial rights, but basically no

2704
03:21:16,210 --> 03:21:21,870
trams, no ski lifts, no gondolas, or the related infrastructure, so no towers.

2705
03:21:22,390 --> 03:21:26,570
Utah opened lands when we acquired St. Creek Canyon, which is adjacent to Bonanza Flat

2706
03:21:26,570 --> 03:21:27,550
back in 1994.

2707
03:21:28,410 --> 03:21:33,230
We actually had language in that easement that was very specific to prohibiting these

2708
03:21:33,230 --> 03:21:36,730
sorts of overhead transportation ski lifts, that sort of thing.

2709
03:21:37,110 --> 03:21:39,730
So we are recommending that as a prohibited use as well.

2710
03:21:39,730 --> 03:21:40,710
So,

2711
03:21:42,980 --> 03:21:48,220
coming back to what we talked about with respect to the IRS and the code, it is clear

2712
03:21:48,220 --> 03:21:53,120
that Bonanza has the conservation values that are as follows, watershed and water quality,

2713
03:21:53,660 --> 03:21:58,720
natural, scenic, aesthetic, heritage, public recreation, education use and access and

2714
03:21:58,720 --> 03:22:01,440
wildlife habitat values of open land.

2715
03:22:01,660 --> 03:22:05,920
And so those would be stated as the intention unless there are others or in the event

2716
03:22:05,920 --> 03:22:09,560
that you won't see a greater prioritization that you want to put in there.

2717
03:22:10,860 --> 03:22:17,760
We recognize that any recreational use has the potential to increase threats to the property.

2718
03:22:18,580 --> 03:22:24,620
I did not bring with me the pictures today of waste that we found on the property that was really graphic

2719
03:22:24,620 --> 03:22:28,500
because I just felt it wasn't appropriate. I'm going to show you some dog waste a little later.

2720
03:22:28,880 --> 03:22:33,500
But it's kind of amazing to us to see that in this watershed.

2721
03:22:34,440 --> 03:22:35,920
There have to be some facilities.

2722
03:22:37,240 --> 03:22:41,540
The restrooms that were put up this summer were pumped, I think, on an almost a daily

2723
03:22:41,540 --> 03:22:47,140
basis every other day, and that is telling.

2724
03:22:47,520 --> 03:22:53,180
And it's a little scary to think that that was going on without those issues.

2725
03:22:54,040 --> 03:22:58,580
And so one of the uses that we think would require monitoring is definitely dog waste

2726
03:22:58,580 --> 03:22:58,960
removal.

2727
03:22:59,580 --> 03:23:04,980
We were not impressed this summer to see the lack of dog waste removal, and we have

2728
03:23:04,980 --> 03:23:11,100
some wonderful pictures on that later and then I just want to sorry I was

2729
03:23:11,600 --> 03:23:16,340
Wasatch County did reach out to me just the other day that they do also have a

2730
03:23:16,340 --> 03:23:19,800
concern about the dogs into the watershed so I just want to make note of

2731
03:23:19,800 --> 03:23:26,200
that in the public meeting and then also in terms of permitted use uses with

2732
03:23:26,200 --> 03:23:30,940
restrictions that there would be no camping unless there was some sort of

2733
03:23:30,940 --> 03:23:36,980
country permit system. And again this has to do with waste removal. Utah Open Lands has a property

2734
03:23:36,980 --> 03:23:41,860
that is a campground. It's free to folks and we didn't have any sort of pit toilet, but we did

2735
03:23:41,860 --> 03:23:47,420
provide wag bags and that didn't solve the problem. You really have to have some sort of permit

2736
03:23:47,420 --> 03:23:51,900
system. And again, since this is a watershed, something has to be dealt with in terms of

2737
03:23:51,900 --> 03:23:57,500
if that's use that you would potentially allow. And we don't think the dog use should occur

2738
03:23:57,500 --> 03:24:02,860
in the primitive areas. And again, because things flow downhill. And so a lot of the

2739
03:24:02,860 --> 03:24:06,380
dogways that we were seeing was really happening at the top of the watershed. It was being

2740
03:24:06,380 --> 03:24:10,120
left there. Rain events, all those sorts of things come down. It's washing into the

2741
03:24:10,120 --> 03:24:12,000
lakes and the streams and the wetlands.

2742
03:24:15,570 --> 03:24:18,410
Or, I'm sorry, or during the winter, because

2743
03:24:18,410 --> 03:24:23,530
that is a snowpack. And again, coming back to Wasatch County's concerns about watershed,

2744
03:24:24,110 --> 03:24:26,730
we just don't think that that would be appropriate.

2745
03:24:28,390 --> 03:24:30,730
This is an example of some of the things that we saw.

2746
03:24:31,010 --> 03:24:39,470
The picture on the left is a picture that we put, a sign that we put up with Park City.

2747
03:24:39,650 --> 03:24:43,350
You can see the poop fairy asking people to pick up after their dogs.

2748
03:24:43,950 --> 03:24:48,270
Within days of putting that sign up, it was vandalized and the signs were taken down.

2749
03:24:49,050 --> 03:24:53,750
So trying to get compliance, which we tried to do, tried to let people know we're not sure where that's going to go.

2750
03:24:53,750 --> 03:24:57,730
Again, that's one of the things that led to our recommendation and I think I have, yes,

2751
03:24:57,830 --> 03:24:58,830
some great little poop slides.

2752
03:24:59,050 --> 03:25:02,190
Those were all taken on one day in one particular area.

2753
03:25:02,370 --> 03:25:04,790
Again, I didn't want to go through a lot of poop slides today.

2754
03:25:05,350 --> 03:25:06,590
I think we showed you some of that.

2755
03:25:07,210 --> 03:25:11,370
And then I want to talk a little bit about the snowmobile use.

2756
03:25:11,670 --> 03:25:16,630
And first and foremost, I want to say that when you look at the resource inventory

2757
03:25:16,630 --> 03:25:21,890
that we conducted over the winter, we did put some different references to some

2758
03:25:21,890 --> 03:25:27,070
different studies in that, but fundamentally, we are not saying that snowmobiles have a

2759
03:25:27,070 --> 03:25:31,230
greater impact on wildlife or watershed than other recreational uses.

2760
03:25:32,210 --> 03:25:33,070
We're not saying that.

2761
03:25:33,210 --> 03:25:39,110
Utah Open Lands actually met with the Utah Snowmobile Association Board, and we talked

2762
03:25:39,110 --> 03:25:42,910
about these issues, and I have to say first and foremost, I was very impressed with

2763
03:25:42,910 --> 03:25:44,750
the Utah Snowmobile Association Board.

2764
03:25:45,290 --> 03:25:51,510
They did express an interest in seeing recreation uses for snowmobiling on Bonanza, but one

2765
03:25:51,510 --> 03:25:56,030
One of the things that they expressed wholeheartedly is that they were very, very interested in keeping

2766
03:25:56,030 --> 03:26:02,690
access to adjacent known and permitted snowmobiling areas open.

2767
03:26:03,370 --> 03:26:07,790
And we actually are in support of that recommendation that they made to us.

2768
03:26:08,110 --> 03:26:13,770
We would agree that keeping that access open so that snowmobiles can access those

2769
03:26:13,770 --> 03:26:16,490
additional recreational areas, we think is appropriate.

2770
03:26:16,490 --> 03:26:29,330
But we are saying to the council, and again, it's not that they necessarily have greater impact than something else, but coming back to the caring capacity and the no net increase, some things got to go.

2771
03:26:30,330 --> 03:26:37,170
We can't have it all. Those uses are going to come into conflict and that creates unsustainability and that's going to create issues.

2772
03:26:37,410 --> 03:26:41,350
So we've got to figure out a way through it based on what we saw out there.

2773
03:26:41,350 --> 03:26:46,930
there is a lot of use over the property and so we felt that the kind of the

2774
03:26:46,930 --> 03:26:50,630
middle of the road was to make sure that there was access to those additional

2775
03:26:50,630 --> 03:26:55,190
recreational areas for snowmobile but not recreation for snowmobiling on

2776
03:26:55,190 --> 03:26:56,290
bonanza flat proper.

2777
03:26:58,860 --> 03:27:01,740
You know some of the reasons that we had out there is

2778
03:27:01,740 --> 03:27:05,340
that there are some impacts that you're going to again have from any

2779
03:27:05,340 --> 03:27:09,230
recreational use. So right you have that one or two or three or five or

2780
03:27:09,230 --> 03:27:11,290
10% that don't pick up after themselves.

2781
03:27:11,810 --> 03:27:16,550
We have found new abandoned snowmobile machines, so at some point those are going to have to

2782
03:27:16,550 --> 03:27:19,590
be retrieved, I'm guessing by some sort of vehicle at some point.

2783
03:27:20,070 --> 03:27:22,710
And there was snowmobiling over vegetation.

2784
03:27:23,450 --> 03:27:31,070
I will point out that the snowpack was really, really low this year, but I think that

2785
03:27:31,070 --> 03:27:35,330
as we all recognize when there are changing conditions in the weather from global warming

2786
03:27:35,330 --> 03:27:40,610
or whatever issues we have to adjust and it can't be status quo, it can't be what we've

2787
03:27:40,610 --> 03:27:41,190
always done.

2788
03:27:42,890 --> 03:27:48,690
We also have documented and again it's just basically documenting what we saw.

2789
03:27:49,970 --> 03:27:58,450
This is the parking that was taking place that is in that area again where you're

2790
03:27:58,450 --> 03:27:59,970
looking here just for reference.

2791
03:28:00,370 --> 03:28:03,750
This is in that Y area where the Wasatch County roads are.

2792
03:28:03,750 --> 03:28:08,710
And so you can see the fence is on the Bonanza Flat property.

2793
03:28:09,690 --> 03:28:11,610
But yes, so that's what we saw.

2794
03:28:11,750 --> 03:28:12,290
We saw parking.

2795
03:28:12,710 --> 03:28:13,530
We saw storage.

2796
03:28:13,730 --> 03:28:19,670
And again, to differentiate for people and for the council, what we really are looking

2797
03:28:19,670 --> 03:28:22,410
at is this is what we observed.

2798
03:28:23,390 --> 03:28:24,530
We didn't Photoshop the photos.

2799
03:28:25,470 --> 03:28:26,410
These were real-time.

2800
03:28:26,570 --> 03:28:27,570
This is what we saw up there.

2801
03:28:27,910 --> 03:28:32,530
Between Park City staff and Utah Open Land staff, I think we were up on the property

2802
03:28:32,530 --> 03:28:35,730
a total of about 100, maybe 120 hours.

2803
03:28:36,490 --> 03:28:41,110
The report is a little dated, but we actually did continue to go up and look at things.

2804
03:28:41,530 --> 03:28:44,230
We did see, and this is, again, data that we saw.

2805
03:28:44,350 --> 03:28:48,130
We're not saying that snowmobiles have a greater impact on wildlife than necessarily

2806
03:28:48,130 --> 03:28:53,990
other recreational uses, but what we did observe is a change in the wildlife patterns.

2807
03:28:55,410 --> 03:28:57,210
Again, we're documenting that.

2808
03:28:57,730 --> 03:28:59,130
That's the data that we saw.

2809
03:28:59,130 --> 03:29:02,690
I'm sure that there are all sorts of studies that could go back and forth.

2810
03:29:03,190 --> 03:29:06,550
In fact, that was a lot of the discussion we had with the Utah Snowmobile Association,

2811
03:29:06,970 --> 03:29:11,450
that there are multiple studies and they argue with each other, hey, that's good science.

2812
03:29:11,750 --> 03:29:16,530
We're not arguing studies, we're basically saying we can't have it all and so at some

2813
03:29:16,530 --> 03:29:20,390
point we have to make a choice and we feel it doesn't make sense for us as an organization

2814
03:29:20,390 --> 03:29:24,890
to move forward in crafting a conservation easement and holding public input unless

2815
03:29:24,890 --> 03:29:30,250
we have some direction on where that's going to go and yes our recommendation is as it stands.

2816
03:29:32,690 --> 03:29:38,950
This is another area on the property kind of in the what meadow area.

2817
03:29:42,370 --> 03:29:47,270
Another thing that was brought forward by and we've talked about this before by the stakeholders

2818
03:29:47,270 --> 03:29:53,430
and that we think is really a critical issue is that the guardsman's pass area is just

2819
03:29:53,430 --> 03:29:59,970
not safe. We've had Wasatch County, we've had state parks who've been responding to safety issues.

2820
03:30:00,560 --> 03:30:06,000
We've had fire trucks that can't get through on the road for emergency purposes because that

2821
03:30:06,000 --> 03:30:12,780
area, it gets just clogged with parking. It's not sustainable. And so, again, you either have

2822
03:30:12,780 --> 03:30:16,920
to kick them all out or figure out another place for them. And so, yes, again, this is

2823
03:30:16,920 --> 03:30:26,260
why Utahful lands feels there needs to be a trailhead and a parking area. And to read

2824
03:30:26,260 --> 03:30:29,260
actually from the Park City bond that was passed.

2825
03:30:29,800 --> 03:30:34,720
It says that Shell Park City, Utah, be authorized to issue general obligation bonds in an amount

2826
03:30:34,720 --> 03:30:39,680
not to exceed 25 million and to mature no more than 16 years from the date or dates of

2827
03:30:39,680 --> 03:30:44,240
such bonds to acquire, improve, and forever preserve open space, park, and recreational

2828
03:30:44,240 --> 03:30:49,220
land located in Bonanza Flat if such land is available for purchase by the city.

2829
03:30:49,600 --> 03:30:54,480
In order to protect the conservation values thereof, to remove existing unneeded man-made

2830
03:30:54,480 --> 03:30:58,960
improvements and to make limited improvements for public access, parking, and use.

2831
03:30:59,440 --> 03:31:05,680
So we feel that these recommendations for parking and access are actually something that fall

2832
03:31:05,680 --> 03:31:09,580
within the bond language as well, and again, we think that it's kind of one of the only

2833
03:31:09,580 --> 03:31:13,180
ways that we can sustain it at this point.

2834
03:31:15,160 --> 03:31:20,080
Beyond that, I could read different parts, and Mike, I don't know if there's anything

2835
03:31:20,080 --> 03:31:23,760
that you wanted to add in at this point?

2836
03:31:24,460 --> 03:31:27,720
I think you covered it, and will there be any specific questions?

2837
03:31:28,000 --> 03:31:37,800
I think that the final thing that I guess I would say in looking through the report

2838
03:31:37,800 --> 03:31:44,240
and some of the suggestions that we have is the survey for bonanza flat was done what

2839
03:31:44,240 --> 03:31:50,260
in the last three weeks, and that has been particularly illuminating.

2840
03:31:51,140 --> 03:31:55,280
I think the surveyors said this is probably one of the most complex properties they've

2841
03:31:55,280 --> 03:31:55,960
ever surveyed.

2842
03:31:56,740 --> 03:31:58,720
We don't have all of the answers yet.

2843
03:31:59,720 --> 03:32:04,700
We recognize that the conservation easement will have to be subject to proven encumbrances

2844
03:32:05,260 --> 03:32:06,160
at the same time.

2845
03:32:06,300 --> 03:32:07,720
We need to understand the scope of that.

2846
03:32:07,880 --> 03:32:12,440
We don't want to get ourselves into a situation where if there's a clean water violation

2847
03:32:12,440 --> 03:32:14,700
or any of those sorts of things associated with those

2848
03:32:14,700 --> 03:32:16,780
encumbrances that we end up taking that on.

2849
03:32:17,660 --> 03:32:21,200
So as we go down this road and we get more of that information

2850
03:32:21,200 --> 03:32:22,680
and people bring that to us,

2851
03:32:23,260 --> 03:32:25,520
we want to make sure that we understand it,

2852
03:32:25,800 --> 03:32:29,000
but we do understand that there are some complex moving parts

2853
03:32:29,000 --> 03:32:31,160
to this particular piece of property.

2854
03:32:31,460 --> 03:32:33,400
And again, given some policy direction,

2855
03:32:33,720 --> 03:32:36,200
we're not asking for a major decision tonight.

2856
03:32:36,640 --> 03:32:38,600
We'd like to be able to come back to you after we've met

2857
03:32:38,600 --> 03:32:41,020
with the jurisdiction and the technical stakeholders,

2858
03:32:41,020 --> 03:32:49,460
others, had public input, met with some of the people of Wasatch County to further refine

2859
03:32:49,460 --> 03:32:53,860
some of the unknowns at this point and how they're going to fit into the conservation

2860
03:32:53,860 --> 03:32:54,280
easement.

2861
03:32:56,140 --> 03:32:56,620
Great.

2862
03:32:57,660 --> 03:32:58,800
Time for questions.

2863
03:33:00,520 --> 03:33:00,760
Lynn?

2864
03:33:01,000 --> 03:33:08,040
I just want to start by disclosing that my spouse owns a piece of property in Brighton

2865
03:33:08,040 --> 03:33:16,980
United States, no building on it. But that does not cloud my objectivity. So just wanted

2866
03:33:16,980 --> 03:33:17,520
to say that.

2867
03:33:17,840 --> 03:33:18,700
Okay. Thank you.

2868
03:33:21,220 --> 03:33:22,000
Other questions?

2869
03:33:25,400 --> 03:33:25,820
Yeah, Tim.

2870
03:33:26,640 --> 03:33:31,060
I'd like some clarification on the snowmobile access routes to the other allowed use areas.

2871
03:33:31,180 --> 03:33:38,540
I'm unclear on where those other allowed use areas are and how the access would go

2872
03:33:38,540 --> 03:33:43,340
across or through Bonanza Flat. Can you just help me understand that a little better?

2873
03:33:43,540 --> 03:33:50,260
Yeah, so Snake Creek Canyon and Pine Canyon are two areas within state parks that have

2874
03:33:50,260 --> 03:33:55,080
allowed snowmobile use. I think one of them has a concession, but we actually, when we

2875
03:33:55,080 --> 03:33:59,020
protected Snake Creek Canyon, we allowed for snowmobile use in Snake Creek Canyon.

2876
03:33:59,480 --> 03:34:03,840
So typically, at least when we talked to the Snowmobiling Association, what they

2877
03:34:03,840 --> 03:34:07,860
talked about is going down on Pine Canyon Road, they can access both what's going

2878
03:34:07,860 --> 03:34:12,540
on in Pine Canyon and then there are also ways to access with Snake Creek Canyon and

2879
03:34:12,540 --> 03:34:16,680
my understanding is that the state parks has looked at how they can better manage that

2880
03:34:16,680 --> 03:34:19,860
and provide greater access even on their end.

2881
03:34:20,460 --> 03:34:25,420
That's been one of the problems that they've had is gate closures and being able to provide

2882
03:34:25,420 --> 03:34:32,380
an access area in state parks apparently in terms of parking and everything else which

2883
03:34:32,380 --> 03:34:36,600
is why a lot of people have come over from Park Cityside in order to specifically access

2884
03:34:36,600 --> 03:34:40,980
pine canyon, but they typically, as we've understood it, go on that pine canyon road

2885
03:34:40,980 --> 03:34:42,240
to access it.

2886
03:34:42,400 --> 03:34:52,060
So the people were creating these access routes for, are coming from either Big Cottonwood

2887
03:34:52,060 --> 03:34:59,500
or Park City, driving up parking somewhere on the outside boundary of Bonanza and then

2888
03:34:59,500 --> 03:35:04,420
driving through Bonanza Flat on their snowmobile on these roads, which would be the access

2889
03:35:04,420 --> 03:35:10,200
routes into allowed use areas as opposed to going around and coming up through

2890
03:35:10,200 --> 03:35:14,100
Midway or Heber. That's that's what I understand.

2891
03:35:16,270 --> 03:35:18,470
I question why we would want

2892
03:35:18,470 --> 03:35:26,230
to facilitate that. That's I'm just wondering about that. I think the main

2893
03:35:26,230 --> 03:35:30,250
component of that is those are county roads that they're accessing through. So

2894
03:35:30,250 --> 03:35:35,010
understanding again that we do not control those county access roads. So

2895
03:35:35,010 --> 03:35:38,470
So those are legitimate access points through this conversation.

2896
03:35:38,690 --> 03:35:43,710
Some people had concerns from the Big Cottonwood area, et cetera, that those roads would actually

2897
03:35:43,710 --> 03:35:44,550
be closed off.

2898
03:35:44,670 --> 03:35:53,290
And it's been a little bit of, you know, fighting the unknown or mistruths that we

2899
03:35:53,290 --> 03:35:55,190
do not have control over those county roads.

2900
03:35:55,310 --> 03:35:56,570
So that access would be allowed.

2901
03:35:56,750 --> 03:35:58,710
We just want to point it out that we think that's appropriate.

2902
03:35:59,430 --> 03:36:00,450
I get that.

2903
03:36:00,650 --> 03:36:04,790
So we can't do anything about the roads and the access that they may or may not

2904
03:36:04,790 --> 03:36:05,170
create.

2905
03:36:05,590 --> 03:36:10,990
But my concern is when you show a picture of a parking area with storage and snowmobiles

2906
03:36:10,990 --> 03:36:12,090
and a lot of traffic.

2907
03:36:12,590 --> 03:36:16,810
And I wonder, well, gee, I wonder how many of these people are up here recreating and

2908
03:36:16,810 --> 03:36:23,410
using these access roads to go to allowed use areas versus Brighton estate residents

2909
03:36:23,410 --> 03:36:27,670
who are using it for transportation to get to and from their cabins, which I see

2910
03:36:27,670 --> 03:36:29,070
as a completely different issue.

2911
03:36:29,130 --> 03:36:31,990
And I know you've called that out in the report as a completely different issue.

2912
03:36:31,990 --> 03:36:38,770
So, I think from what I saw, that parking area that you showed is probably highly populated

2913
03:36:38,770 --> 03:36:43,350
by a lot of people who are not Brighton Estates residents using their snowmobiles to get to

2914
03:36:43,350 --> 03:36:46,670
and from their cabins, although there might be a few in there.

2915
03:36:47,750 --> 03:36:50,750
And then it's, so what are we doing there?

2916
03:36:50,990 --> 03:36:58,150
Are we creating a place where people can come and park and store and then access allowed

2917
03:36:58,150 --> 03:36:58,910
use areas?

2918
03:36:59,370 --> 03:37:01,130
That's a little bit problematic.

2919
03:37:01,130 --> 03:37:09,630
Well, and I think that that's a good question, Tim. My perspective on what we were documenting

2920
03:37:09,630 --> 03:37:18,110
in terms of the vehicles and whatnot is that the majority of that was residents of Brighton

2921
03:37:18,110 --> 03:37:24,310
estates. We did go up a couple of times and the gate to get in from the Park City

2922
03:37:24,310 --> 03:37:30,290
side was open and there didn't seem to be anybody there. So I don't know if there

2923
03:37:30,290 --> 03:37:35,830
are people that were using that area to come up and like access those other areas and parking

2924
03:37:35,830 --> 03:37:41,510
in there. So we did not try to go through and check license plate numbers or anything

2925
03:37:41,510 --> 03:37:46,550
else which is again why we've tried to define that there are these separate issues. And

2926
03:37:46,550 --> 03:37:51,950
I think that you are distilling a really great, finer point to this. Again, we'd

2927
03:37:51,950 --> 03:37:57,330
love to see some direction. If you would like us to look at that more fully, we'd

2928
03:37:57,330 --> 03:38:01,230
be happy to but the bottom line is yeah we do understand that that's a parking

2929
03:38:01,230 --> 03:38:04,430
area that's been for Brighton estates and we have identified in the report

2930
03:38:04,430 --> 03:38:07,890
that access to adjacent lands is different with respect to the

2931
03:38:07,890 --> 03:38:11,030
recreational part again we're saying we don't see that that's appropriate on

2932
03:38:11,030 --> 03:38:15,530
bonanza how many of those people are parking there from Davis County to go

2933
03:38:15,530 --> 03:38:20,510
recreate in I don't know and Tim I just want to point out today we want to

2934
03:38:20,510 --> 03:38:25,190
stay focused on the property we own and there there's probably a longer

2935
03:38:25,190 --> 03:38:29,410
discussion around the county roads and access, but that's not what we're going to address

2936
03:38:29,410 --> 03:38:32,370
today because that's something we need to involve our partners in.

2937
03:38:32,510 --> 03:38:36,790
So I think what they've made very clear is there are concerns about the management of

2938
03:38:36,790 --> 03:38:38,670
motorized use on bonanza flat.

2939
03:38:38,850 --> 03:38:42,050
As far as the road, that's something we're going to have to come back to and discuss

2940
03:38:42,050 --> 03:38:43,110
in a future discussion.

2941
03:38:46,550 --> 03:38:47,030
Thanks.

2942
03:38:47,910 --> 03:38:48,570
Thank you.

2943
03:38:49,690 --> 03:38:50,030
Lynn?

2944
03:38:50,970 --> 03:38:55,970
This is a question about roads, but not county roads.

2945
03:38:56,510 --> 03:39:03,020
these other little roads that you see like from the Y where Pine Canyon Road

2946
03:39:03,020 --> 03:39:07,320
goes down and then there's that you see that little dirt road going to the West

2947
03:39:07,320 --> 03:39:13,240
and around and I don't know what it goes to. That goes to the Girl Scout Camp

2948
03:39:13,240 --> 03:39:17,420
so there would still those kinds of roads and same with the other one that

2949
03:39:17,420 --> 03:39:20,760
looks like it's over by the kind of a gravel pit or something to the east.

2950
03:39:20,760 --> 03:39:29,180
You know, those roads are still, would those still be accessible by people using motorized

2951
03:39:29,180 --> 03:39:35,160
means to get to their Girl Scout camp, obviously, and their homes there?

2952
03:39:36,680 --> 03:39:43,820
So again, one of the things that we are looking at is based on what we're seeing, we're

2953
03:39:43,820 --> 03:39:49,640
saying that yes, the conservation easement would be subject to proven encumbrances.

2954
03:39:49,640 --> 03:39:59,060
We know, for example, that the Girl Scouts do have, through their lease and through other things, the ability and a road to get to their facility.

2955
03:39:59,720 --> 03:40:06,620
What is important in crafting and conservation easement is to understand the scope of what those are.

2956
03:40:06,900 --> 03:40:14,820
Does that mean those roads become impervious surfaces in the future, get widened, get rerouted?

2957
03:40:15,760 --> 03:40:20,000
Those are questions that we can't answer because we don't have that information.

2958
03:40:20,340 --> 03:40:22,600
So I'm not going to say a yes or a no here.

2959
03:40:23,240 --> 03:40:26,100
That's something that we hope to continue to understand,

2960
03:40:26,520 --> 03:40:31,540
and we think it's really valuable to understand what the scope may or may not be,

2961
03:40:32,860 --> 03:40:38,460
because something that is 12 feet today, 50 years from now,

2962
03:40:38,620 --> 03:40:40,920
if you're not dealing it with respect to the conservation easement

2963
03:40:40,920 --> 03:40:45,800
and there isn't something that's defined can become 500 or whatever that particular issue

2964
03:40:45,800 --> 03:40:46,080
is.

2965
03:40:46,440 --> 03:40:53,040
Again, we'd probably be recommending that there be no impervious surfaces in Bonanza

2966
03:40:53,040 --> 03:40:57,800
Flat even with respect to parking areas that that would never become asphalted.

2967
03:40:58,120 --> 03:41:03,360
Those are refinements that we would see working on right now as far as those different things.

2968
03:41:03,720 --> 03:41:08,040
We only have what we have to go on and so I don't have the answer to all of those

2969
03:41:08,040 --> 03:41:08,520
to be honest.

2970
03:41:08,520 --> 03:41:10,520
But it starts with encumbrances.

2971
03:41:10,820 --> 03:41:12,180
It starts with proven encumbrances.

2972
03:41:15,810 --> 03:41:16,810
Any other questions?

2973
03:41:18,430 --> 03:41:18,790
Okay.

2974
03:41:19,330 --> 03:41:21,830
We are going to now open it up for public input.

2975
03:41:22,050 --> 03:41:23,550
How many of you would like to speak tonight?

2976
03:41:26,040 --> 03:41:27,480
Okay. We've got a bunch.

2977
03:41:27,780 --> 03:41:28,860
A couple of requests then.

2978
03:41:28,940 --> 03:41:30,400
The first one is I just want to reiterate.

2979
03:41:30,640 --> 03:41:33,680
Tonight's discussion is about the intention and use report.

2980
03:41:33,880 --> 03:41:35,380
It's about the property we own

2981
03:41:35,380 --> 03:41:36,660
and the proposed easement item.

2982
03:41:37,020 --> 03:41:38,780
We're not going to, it's not fruitful

2983
03:41:39,120 --> 03:41:41,420
to talk about access in the county roads.

2984
03:41:41,420 --> 03:41:43,220
That's not something under our authority.

2985
03:41:43,680 --> 03:41:45,740
So we ask that you stick to the topic at hand.

2986
03:41:46,400 --> 03:41:49,040
Secondly, we ask that you not spend a lot of time

2987
03:41:49,040 --> 03:41:50,440
repeating what somebody just said.

2988
03:41:50,560 --> 03:41:52,860
If you go up there, you know, if the person in front of you

2989
03:41:52,860 --> 03:41:54,600
said something that you feel strongly about

2990
03:41:54,600 --> 03:41:56,360
and you agree with, get up there and say, ditto.

2991
03:41:56,660 --> 03:41:58,960
And, you know, hit on new points.

2992
03:41:59,300 --> 03:42:02,380
So with that, we will open the public hearing

2993
03:42:02,820 --> 03:42:03,900
and come on forward.

2994
03:42:06,900 --> 03:42:09,660
Hi, Alisha, nice to wonder.

2995
03:42:12,180 --> 03:42:13,660
And I would just like to,

2996
03:42:13,660 --> 03:42:19,860
I just was reading this the other day when I got it and I have a commercial guiding business

2997
03:42:19,860 --> 03:42:23,780
in town and I would love to use this area.

2998
03:42:24,120 --> 03:42:33,900
However, I think that there needs to be some kind of a monitoring system, potentially permitting

2999
03:42:33,900 --> 03:42:39,640
system for commercial guiding companies and I realize I'm basically asking to pay to

3000
03:42:39,640 --> 03:42:44,860
use it, but that's fine with me because I think it's stewardship that I deserve to give

3001
03:42:44,860 --> 03:42:50,080
back to that area for using it and making my living off of it and other areas in town.

3002
03:42:50,440 --> 03:42:57,000
But I think the risk that if we don't put something like that in place, the permitting

3003
03:42:57,000 --> 03:43:03,020
system or a lot of user days, amount of people that guiding companies can bring

3004
03:43:03,020 --> 03:43:09,120
back there, I think we really run a risk of every Tom Dick and Harry from Salt Lake

3005
03:43:09,120 --> 03:43:17,080
like coming up over the past, especially in the summer and just using the land that we

3006
03:43:17,080 --> 03:43:21,120
paid for with our tax dollars and, you know, the land that our city is protecting.

3007
03:43:22,060 --> 03:43:25,380
I'm not going to stand here and say they shouldn't be allowed.

3008
03:43:25,580 --> 03:43:30,100
I just think there needs to be some kind of a discussion on monitoring that type of

3009
03:43:30,100 --> 03:43:32,520
activity so it doesn't become overrun.

3010
03:43:32,640 --> 03:43:36,480
And it's a lot easier to start with the rain's tight and let them out a little

3011
03:43:36,480 --> 03:43:43,440
bit than to have it be a free-for-all and try to change the user, the demographic, and

3012
03:43:43,440 --> 03:43:45,740
the way that we use it and the way that we monitor it.

3013
03:43:45,960 --> 03:43:47,240
So that's my suggestion.

3014
03:43:47,420 --> 03:43:52,300
That can be a conversation down the road, but I just want to put the buzz in here about

3015
03:43:52,300 --> 03:43:52,500
that.

3016
03:43:53,260 --> 03:43:53,560
Great.

3017
03:43:53,880 --> 03:43:54,200
Thank you.

3018
03:44:05,940 --> 03:44:07,340
My name is Roger Hull.

3019
03:44:09,720 --> 03:44:14,920
I just want to congratulate Park City for acquiring Bonanza Flats.

3020
03:44:14,920 --> 03:44:16,580
I think it's a wonderful thing.

3021
03:44:18,320 --> 03:44:22,840
My family's had property up in Brighton Estates for over 40 years.

3022
03:44:23,760 --> 03:44:25,100
We love that area.

3023
03:44:25,320 --> 03:44:29,580
We donated to the – it was a few hundred dollars.

3024
03:44:29,640 --> 03:44:30,700
It wasn't 25 million.

3025
03:44:30,960 --> 03:44:36,480
But we put in what we could, and I know a lot of people from Brighton Estates really

3026
03:44:36,480 --> 03:44:41,040
dug deep and tried to help make it happen.

3027
03:44:41,040 --> 03:44:44,960
And we appreciate the efforts that are being taken here.

3028
03:44:47,000 --> 03:44:52,060
Our concern is obviously being able to access our homes and cabins.

3029
03:44:52,360 --> 03:44:53,280
A lot of people live there.

3030
03:44:53,980 --> 03:44:54,760
That's the reality.

3031
03:44:55,820 --> 03:44:58,660
It's also the reality that most years we get a lot of snow.

3032
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:06,020
And snowmobile access is the only way to get into our properties, and that's how it's been forever.

3033
03:45:06,360 --> 03:45:14,940
We used to park down by Silver King Mine, you know, where Royal Road comes in to Marsac or State Road 224.

3034
03:45:15,520 --> 03:45:25,800
We used to park there and go all the way in. That was our staging area, and then when the montage was built and they reconfigured 224,

3035
03:45:25,800 --> 03:45:30,760
our parking changed so it's just above the hotel.

3036
03:45:31,220 --> 03:45:37,620
There was a winter gate there and that area was just too small because of the people who had property there

3037
03:45:37,620 --> 03:45:40,320
and then the public would come and there just wasn't room.

3038
03:45:41,060 --> 03:45:44,840
So about 10 years ago, and I might be off a year or two,

3039
03:45:46,240 --> 03:45:51,120
we got permission from UDOT and Wasatch County to plow into the Y intersection.

3040
03:45:52,140 --> 03:45:57,120
And all of those vehicles, those traders you saw, are Brighton State's people.

3041
03:45:57,320 --> 03:45:59,080
The public doesn't go there.

3042
03:45:59,580 --> 03:46:04,220
You have to buy a key to get through the gate, and that's several hundred dollars every year to get there.

3043
03:46:04,700 --> 03:46:08,300
And we stay on the county road, and we're not going to talk about county roads tonight.

3044
03:46:08,380 --> 03:46:08,820
I know that.

3045
03:46:08,980 --> 03:46:13,380
But we stay on the county road, and we park along the county road on the right-of-way.

3046
03:46:13,440 --> 03:46:17,380
We don't park out into Bonanza Flats.

3047
03:46:17,440 --> 03:46:18,740
We try to respect all of that.

3048
03:46:18,840 --> 03:46:20,380
There are no rules to follow.

3049
03:46:20,380 --> 03:46:21,900
although we just tried to be good stewards,

3050
03:46:22,700 --> 03:46:24,400
it would be helpful if we could have a meeting

3051
03:46:24,400 --> 03:46:26,520
and agree to some rules

3052
03:46:26,980 --> 03:46:28,820
because we wanted to protect the area too.

3053
03:46:29,580 --> 03:46:32,980
But those vehicles, those trailers that you asked about,

3054
03:46:33,100 --> 03:46:34,340
that's all Brighton estates.

3055
03:46:35,520 --> 03:46:38,220
That's the people who live up there

3056
03:46:38,640 --> 03:46:41,360
and work in Park City or come back and forth

3057
03:46:41,360 --> 03:46:42,560
or recreate.

3058
03:46:43,720 --> 03:46:45,620
I appreciate that the county roads

3059
03:46:45,620 --> 03:46:47,640
are not on the agenda today.

3060
03:46:47,820 --> 03:46:49,220
We certainly need Pine Canyon,

3061
03:46:49,220 --> 03:46:55,100
But there are other dirt roads that go to cabins that cross brightness states and people

3062
03:46:55,100 --> 03:46:58,160
need to be able to access their cabins as they always have for decades.

3063
03:46:59,100 --> 03:47:04,540
So maybe a permitting system where vehicles are permitted.

3064
03:47:04,860 --> 03:47:09,140
They have a sticker and they pay to permit and they know what the rules are and they

3065
03:47:10,000 --> 03:47:15,620
park in the designated spot that why intersection is ideal and maybe the snowmobiles ought

3066
03:47:15,620 --> 03:47:16,220
to be permitted.

3067
03:47:16,220 --> 03:47:20,560
so that you know who is going to their properties and who's not.

3068
03:47:21,120 --> 03:47:24,600
But you can't get to all the properties just from Pine Canyon Road.

3069
03:47:25,000 --> 03:47:27,780
You just can't get to everybody's cabin.

3070
03:47:29,060 --> 03:47:34,320
And Pine Canyon Road is not always available because on the shoulders of the season,

3071
03:47:34,620 --> 03:47:36,260
there's not enough snow on it.

3072
03:47:36,920 --> 03:47:42,700
And so I think what we need is an opportunity to sit down with these good people

3073
03:47:42,700 --> 03:47:45,840
and work out some things for the residents up there,

3074
03:47:45,880 --> 03:47:47,240
for the people who have property,

3075
03:47:47,720 --> 03:47:49,360
so that we know what the rules are,

3076
03:47:49,920 --> 03:47:51,880
so that we can abide by them

3077
03:47:51,880 --> 03:47:53,840
and come to reasonable regulations,

3078
03:47:54,420 --> 03:47:58,520
and perhaps a permitting thing would be very, very helpful,

3079
03:47:59,300 --> 03:48:05,360
so that, you know, snowmobiles or vehicles are identified,

3080
03:48:05,640 --> 03:48:08,040
and if there's a problem, it can be addressed.

3081
03:48:09,640 --> 03:48:22,420
But what we do know is that there needs to be a place to park your vehicle and stage onto a snowmobile if you're going to get to your property.

3082
03:48:22,860 --> 03:48:30,900
There has to be a place. We can't decrease the amount of land we're using now because the demand is just too high.

3083
03:48:30,900 --> 03:48:37,480
We may not increase it, but we've got to at least maintain the status quo and have a place to stage.

3084
03:48:38,120 --> 03:48:44,840
And I get very concerned when we can't define what roads are going to be included, what roads are not going to be included.

3085
03:48:45,340 --> 03:48:49,520
This thing's coming forward and it's going to, you know, it's a freight train.

3086
03:48:49,580 --> 03:48:56,980
And we just need to make sure that there is access to these cabins for the people who have property up there.

3087
03:48:58,620 --> 03:49:05,800
So, anyway, we fully support this, Brighton Estates people are not interested in development

3088
03:49:05,800 --> 03:49:06,340
up there.

3089
03:49:06,440 --> 03:49:12,100
That's why so many of them have contributed to this cause, but we definitely need to balance

3090
03:49:12,100 --> 03:49:17,100
in appropriate access and recreation for the people who have property up there.

3091
03:49:17,480 --> 03:49:21,380
And I don't think we've really had that opportunity at this point.

3092
03:49:21,920 --> 03:49:24,040
And again, I'm not talking about the county roads.

3093
03:49:24,040 --> 03:49:29,620
I'm talking about the the dirt roads that people drive in to their cabins in the summer time

3094
03:49:29,620 --> 03:49:30,820
It's the only way to get in there

3095
03:49:32,380 --> 03:49:35,280
And on in the winter time they go over the snow

3096
03:49:36,760 --> 03:49:39,840
Nobody's trying to hurt any vegetation or anything like that

3097
03:49:39,840 --> 03:49:46,160
You know snowmobiles as has been mentioned have no greater impact than other forms of recreation

3098
03:49:46,160 --> 03:49:53,080
But it's more than just recreation. It's where people live. Thank you. Hey, Roger. Do you mind signing in? Oh, yes

3099
03:49:53,080 --> 03:49:53,200
Yes.

3100
03:49:53,300 --> 03:49:53,600
Thank you.

3101
03:50:11,370 --> 03:50:11,870
Hey, Carl.

3102
03:50:12,570 --> 03:50:13,590
Hey, good evening.

3103
03:50:14,110 --> 03:50:14,530
Carl Fisher.

3104
03:50:15,010 --> 03:50:17,730
I'm the executive director of SAVAR Canyons.

3105
03:50:21,070 --> 03:50:31,690
I'm also on the technical resource or the technical committee and just had some concerns

3106
03:50:32,370 --> 03:50:35,770
in recent weeks that I just wanted to bring up with you guys today.

3107
03:50:36,810 --> 03:50:39,430
I sent you an email earlier today.

3108
03:50:39,430 --> 03:50:45,150
I'm going to just assume you read it so I don't have to read it back to you and be a little

3109
03:50:45,150 --> 03:50:45,870
bit more brief.

3110
03:50:46,010 --> 03:50:56,630
But I do want to say I'm disappointed a little bit in some of the accusations that just came

3111
03:50:56,630 --> 03:51:00,110
back to us today about some of the things that we said.

3112
03:51:00,230 --> 03:51:03,290
We weren't trying to be inflammatory.

3113
03:51:03,290 --> 03:51:11,150
We weren't trying to use fear-based tactics or, I guess, Russian hacking type tactics.

3114
03:51:14,910 --> 03:51:20,830
We were simply responding to some of the things that we've heard officials from Park City

3115
03:51:21,370 --> 03:51:29,070
say on the radio in recent weeks that have been, honestly, alarming to us, and I know

3116
03:51:29,070 --> 03:51:34,190
So the resource plan says one thing, but we work on resource plans all over the state,

3117
03:51:34,470 --> 03:51:37,990
all over the Wasatch Mountains, and we've been doing it for 40 years.

3118
03:51:38,330 --> 03:51:43,490
And I recognize the difference between an administrative process and kind of a political

3119
03:51:43,490 --> 03:51:47,890
process that you guys represent, and that's why we were reacting.

3120
03:51:48,330 --> 03:51:51,510
And I just wanted to come up here and explain that to you guys today.

3121
03:51:51,510 --> 03:51:59,850
But when somebody from Park City on on the radio says that you're entertaining the idea of

3122
03:52:00,590 --> 03:52:02,390
putting of allowing

3123
03:52:03,190 --> 03:52:07,350
Interconnect across the the bonanza flat property

3124
03:52:08,450 --> 03:52:12,730
It threatened a lot of our members threatened people on our board

3125
03:52:12,730 --> 03:52:15,910
it threatened our donors that contributed to this campaign and

3126
03:52:16,470 --> 03:52:20,270
as the as the comment went on the radio it said it was to

3127
03:52:20,270 --> 03:52:22,470
to create a conversation.

3128
03:52:23,050 --> 03:52:25,170
So let's have the conversation.

3129
03:52:25,330 --> 03:52:26,650
We're not afraid of the conversation.

3130
03:52:27,290 --> 03:52:29,190
We are afraid of the proposal.

3131
03:52:29,450 --> 03:52:32,170
And we have been afraid of that proposal for over 40 years.

3132
03:52:32,990 --> 03:52:36,590
Our organization has literally been playing whack-a-mole

3133
03:52:36,590 --> 03:52:39,970
with that project for three or four decades.

3134
03:52:40,530 --> 03:52:44,850
And it's exhausting and emotional at times

3135
03:52:44,850 --> 03:52:46,870
as you can probably imagine.

3136
03:52:47,270 --> 03:52:49,150
But I don't think that our comments

3137
03:52:49,150 --> 03:52:55,170
were out of line or and so I wanted to first address that just just some of

3138
03:52:55,170 --> 03:53:01,210
the responses that we got from folks from Park City and you know Utah Open Lands.

3139
03:53:01,470 --> 03:53:08,230
I don't think we were at all out of line on that. We are also very concerned

3140
03:53:08,230 --> 03:53:13,850
about some of the groomed Nordic trails that are being considered on the area.

3141
03:53:13,850 --> 03:53:20,830
I think I want to preface and state this very clearly, as I did in my letter, that we're

3142
03:53:20,830 --> 03:53:22,670
not advocating for no use of the area.

3143
03:53:22,790 --> 03:53:26,130
We absolutely understand that people should be able to go enjoy that.

3144
03:53:26,490 --> 03:53:30,250
We're very concerned with intensity of use up there.

3145
03:53:30,430 --> 03:53:34,410
And I think that, you know, that's something we're going to have to continue to grapple

3146
03:53:34,410 --> 03:53:34,750
with.

3147
03:53:36,410 --> 03:53:42,870
But I am, we, as we were looking through the report, we did notice that, you know,

3148
03:53:42,870 --> 03:53:44,610
One of the reasons, one of the values,

3149
03:53:45,530 --> 03:53:46,610
flammulated owl, right?

3150
03:53:46,770 --> 03:53:49,090
How many times have we heard about the flammulated owl,

3151
03:53:49,290 --> 03:53:51,490
population and habitat on that area?

3152
03:53:52,030 --> 03:53:53,350
Well, that flammulated owl,

3153
03:53:55,050 --> 03:53:57,350
the locations on the Bonanza property

3154
03:53:57,350 --> 03:54:00,590
that the reports show coincide with some

3155
03:54:00,590 --> 03:54:02,730
of the more intensive recreation areas

3156
03:54:02,730 --> 03:54:03,590
that you're allowing.

3157
03:54:04,190 --> 03:54:06,950
So why are we not, so those are the areas

3158
03:54:06,950 --> 03:54:09,470
where Snowmobile, or excuse me,

3159
03:54:09,470 --> 03:54:15,230
some of the groomed ski trails and things like that could potentially be located.

3160
03:54:15,410 --> 03:54:23,010
We're concerned about introducing and inducing that type of activity and displacing some of the wildlife as already has been observed.

3161
03:54:23,590 --> 03:54:32,690
I tried to send you some resources as well, a study that was done just last year over in the Diamond Fork area where they had camera traps

3162
03:54:32,690 --> 03:54:37,330
and they were observing the human wildlife interactions

3163
03:54:37,330 --> 03:54:41,170
and have great documentation on how use,

3164
03:54:41,470 --> 03:54:43,110
during certain hours of the day,

3165
03:54:43,930 --> 03:54:45,950
displace wildlife populations.

3166
03:54:46,190 --> 03:54:49,410
And those wildlife populations and the watershed values

3167
03:54:49,410 --> 03:54:52,630
are more important, I think,

3168
03:54:52,710 --> 03:54:55,750
to our membership and constituencies,

3169
03:54:55,890 --> 03:54:57,370
honestly, than the use.

3170
03:54:58,070 --> 03:55:00,510
We have so impacted the Wasatch Mountains,

3171
03:55:00,510 --> 03:55:04,450
And this is a very, you guys all know, everybody knows how special this place is.

3172
03:55:05,010 --> 03:55:09,850
It's buttressed, it's flanked by three different ski areas.

3173
03:55:10,870 --> 03:55:15,950
There's been no shortage of proposals that have been proposed across this property over

3174
03:55:15,950 --> 03:55:16,530
the years.

3175
03:55:17,210 --> 03:55:23,490
So we want to try, and Park City, I mean, we were excited that Park City came to the

3176
03:55:23,490 --> 03:55:28,490
table with this because I don't live in Park City, we have members in Park City,

3177
03:55:28,490 --> 03:55:31,010
but me living down in the Salt Lake Valley,

3178
03:55:31,830 --> 03:55:36,730
I look to you guys, you do such incredible progressive things,

3179
03:55:37,050 --> 03:55:42,510
and we're hoping that this can be another feather in your cap,

3180
03:55:42,670 --> 03:55:47,870
so to speak, of a super progressive altruistic endeavor

3181
03:55:47,870 --> 03:55:51,830
that really is looking out for the integrity of some of the things

3182
03:55:51,830 --> 03:55:55,470
that honestly don't really have a voice on that landscape.

3183
03:55:55,470 --> 03:55:59,170
And so that's what we were trying to bring up to you.

3184
03:56:01,030 --> 03:56:02,370
So we'll continue.

3185
03:56:02,950 --> 03:56:06,230
We look forward to working with you on the stakeholder committee.

3186
03:56:08,190 --> 03:56:13,670
But I felt compelled to come up here given some of the, I guess,

3187
03:56:14,250 --> 03:56:17,410
just to say heated exchanges perhaps today.

3188
03:56:18,750 --> 03:56:22,350
I felt that they were misguided and I wanted to have a conversation with you guys

3189
03:56:22,350 --> 03:56:25,150
and let you know we're always here to converse.

3190
03:56:25,150 --> 03:56:32,870
but our intention was not to malign you or any of the partners in this, but we

3191
03:56:32,870 --> 03:56:37,130
were threatened honestly by some of the things and weren't sure exactly what was

3192
03:56:37,130 --> 03:56:45,770
going on and we felt it important to notify our members, our followers, whom

3193
03:56:45,770 --> 03:56:50,510
have invested in our organization and our values and our mission for decades.

3194
03:56:50,510 --> 03:56:52,150
States. Thank you.

3195
03:57:06,900 --> 03:57:10,720
My name is Robbie Powell. We live in Brighton

3196
03:57:10,720 --> 03:57:18,920
States. It's our primary residence. We donated to the cause here. We highly support it.

3197
03:57:20,460 --> 03:57:26,980
We highly support elimination of motorized vehicle traffic within the conservation area.

3198
03:57:27,540 --> 03:57:34,500
That being said, there is considerable concern about how we are going to park and access

3199
03:57:34,500 --> 03:57:46,820
our homes. And I ask that we be at the table for constructing a solution to

3200
03:57:46,820 --> 03:57:50,060
parking and access. Thank you.

3201
03:58:11,830 --> 03:58:14,910
So my name is John Olson and I'm a competitive

3202
03:58:14,910 --> 03:58:23,390
Nordic skier. The last several years we have been having major difficulties finding

3203
03:58:23,390 --> 03:58:28,830
training facilities to train with the lack of snow, because the majority of the places

3204
03:58:28,830 --> 03:58:36,870
we can train at this point are very low elevation, and there are significant snow-like issues

3205
03:58:36,870 --> 03:58:43,450
with amounts of snow in those areas, and one of the solutions to that is having a high

3206
03:58:43,450 --> 03:58:52,990
elevation Nordic track on Bonanza's flat because of its high elevation and higher

3207
03:58:52,990 --> 03:58:53,890
amount of snow.

3208
03:59:02,740 --> 03:59:04,200
Thank you. Thank you.

3209
03:59:13,330 --> 03:59:16,410
Hi, Council. My name is Bridget Meinhold. For those of you

3210
03:59:16,410 --> 03:59:20,390
who don't know me, I am also a resident of Brighton Estates, full-time year-round resident.

3211
03:59:22,790 --> 03:59:28,610
And I'm so grateful that all of the work that has been done on Bonanza Flat, both from

3212
03:59:28,610 --> 03:59:32,790
Utah Open Lands and staff and the Council, also very grateful for the people who showed

3213
03:59:32,790 --> 03:59:38,630
up here tonight in support of Bonanza Flat and also to share their concerns about

3214
03:59:38,630 --> 03:59:43,370
how we go forward. As we're getting into the nitty-gritty of actually preserving

3215
03:59:43,370 --> 03:59:49,710
bonanza flat, I want to say, first of all, let's all be grateful about this

3216
03:59:49,710 --> 03:59:53,930
opportunity that we have. It's an incredible opportunity to save a piece of

3217
03:59:53,930 --> 03:59:59,450
land that otherwise would have turned into a luxury ski resort and development.

3218
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:03,860
That nobody would have had access to, nobody would have ever been able to snowmobile on,

3219
04:00:04,500 --> 04:00:11,820
ski on, hike on, mountain bike on. So we have this incredible opportunity to guide the preservation

3220
04:00:11,820 --> 04:00:17,040
of this land. So as a resident though, you can imagine I'm a little biased because I

3221
04:00:17,040 --> 04:00:24,560
live next to it. I access my home through it. My work is on my property. And I do ask

3222
04:00:24,560 --> 04:00:29,180
that the council will be considerate and compassionate to the people who have

3223
04:00:29,180 --> 04:00:33,580
approved an encumbrance to gain their property. So I reiterate what other

3224
04:00:33,580 --> 04:00:38,040
residents of Brighton Estates have said and ask that we be given special

3225
04:00:38,040 --> 04:00:46,380
snowmobile quarters in the winter, that they're wrangled off, roped or

3226
04:00:46,380 --> 04:00:51,240
polled, whatever is most convenient. It's a matter of safety, it's a matter

3227
04:00:51,240 --> 04:00:56,920
access. My husband is a captain of the Park City Fire Department, and he knows that, you

3228
04:00:56,920 --> 04:01:02,140
know, it's a matter of minutes can save a life. And having access across Bonanza Flat

3229
04:01:02,140 --> 04:01:08,340
on that special corridor can save a life. In the summer, it's the same, but with regards

3230
04:01:08,340 --> 04:01:14,860
also to fire danger. And so we need those egress points across the roads to be able

3231
04:01:14,860 --> 04:01:18,540
to exit speedily should that need occur.

3232
04:01:24,380 --> 04:01:29,480
I just want to also remember that we have a really special opportunity here and that we're

3233
04:01:29,480 --> 04:01:32,640
doing it to create a special place.

3234
04:01:32,920 --> 04:01:35,300
We can be a model for stewardship for the rest of the world.

3235
04:01:35,840 --> 04:01:42,120
I think what we have is a pretty unique opportunity to show that we can save land in the heart

3236
04:01:42,120 --> 04:01:44,420
of a densely populated area.

3237
04:01:44,420 --> 04:02:02,040
And so as we move forward with coming up with the specific solutions, I ask that everybody be sensible, compassionate, and consider it for both the people, all the people that are involved in all of their rights and wants and needs, but also for the land.

3238
04:02:02,640 --> 04:02:03,080
Thank you.

3239
04:02:18,950 --> 04:02:21,350
Hi, Tina Smith, Old Town.

3240
04:02:22,850 --> 04:02:24,730
And I just want to zip code.

3241
04:02:25,090 --> 04:02:26,130
Too much information, sorry.

3242
04:02:30,270 --> 04:02:37,110
So, I would just like to voice my opinion that I feel very strongly about, and I like

3243
04:02:37,110 --> 04:02:42,450
the way that our Sava Kenyans guy, I don't remember his name, put it, and that we should,

3244
04:02:43,030 --> 04:02:48,430
I want us to be very progressive on how we handle this land, and Wendy and everybody

3245
04:02:48,430 --> 04:02:52,850
work so hard on this to get all the entities together to purchase it.

3246
04:02:52,850 --> 04:02:55,270
So we have a lot of people to think about.

3247
04:02:56,730 --> 04:03:02,330
I would really like to see this not be dog-free.

3248
04:03:02,730 --> 04:03:04,790
We don't need another dog park.

3249
04:03:04,990 --> 04:03:07,510
They have a 1,400-acre dog park.

3250
04:03:08,430 --> 04:03:11,410
And unfortunately, people are not good with their dogs.

3251
04:03:11,730 --> 04:03:17,250
And with Salt Lake chipping in and their main objective to chip in

3252
04:03:17,250 --> 04:03:18,670
was to preserve the watershed,

3253
04:03:19,230 --> 04:03:20,990
I would like to see a non-dog zone.

3254
04:03:20,990 --> 04:03:26,470
national parks do it. It's so unfortunate how people are not responsible and let

3255
04:03:26,470 --> 04:03:31,910
their dogs use wildlife as chew toys and leave all their vehicle matter.

3256
04:03:34,690 --> 04:03:36,950
And that's

3257
04:03:36,950 --> 04:03:50,970
pretty much my big peep. And the snowmobile issue will be, it'll

3258
04:03:56,920 --> 04:03:56,920
be like

3259
04:03:56,920 --> 04:04:01,960
Okay, it's my first time speaking in front of the council here and I got to say it's

3260
04:04:01,960 --> 04:04:05,860
a little intimidating and my recommendation would be to put dimmers on all these lights

3261
04:04:05,860 --> 04:04:11,020
and tone it down a little bit. But all kidding aside, my name is Bob Merrill. I've been

3262
04:04:11,020 --> 04:04:15,740
a resident of Park City for 30 years and for most of that I've been a snowmobiler.

3263
04:04:16,340 --> 04:04:21,700
I've used snowmobiles for probably over 25 years to access properties and homes

3264
04:04:21,700 --> 04:04:29,640
in Tolgate Canyon and in Brighton States and this is a tough issue, it really is.

3265
04:04:30,880 --> 04:04:37,560
But in the course of snowmobiling in Brighton States, I'm a point A to B snowmobiler.

3266
04:04:38,040 --> 04:04:43,000
And that by that I mean I go to a destination, usually for ski access, I stick to the roads,

3267
04:04:43,160 --> 04:04:44,880
I'm not derbying around, not high marking.

3268
04:04:45,540 --> 04:04:50,040
And I've come to the conclusion after the last few years being up in Brighton States

3269
04:04:50,040 --> 04:04:54,980
that it's recreational snowmobiling is really not appropriate in the open space zone. And

3270
04:04:54,980 --> 04:05:00,240
I can tell you why. A lot of snowmobile users groups would tell you, oh, we're not invasive.

3271
04:05:01,060 --> 04:05:06,300
We just leap tracks. We're there. We're in and out. But the noise pollution alone is

3272
04:05:06,300 --> 04:05:10,180
incredible up in Brighton states and in Bonanza Flats. You can hear it from red

3273
04:05:10,180 --> 04:05:16,640
cloud to the ski areas to Brighton states. That whole zone is just overrun with

3274
04:05:16,640 --> 04:05:21,900
noise pollution. I really do think it affects the wildlife and I think they disappear in

3275
04:05:21,900 --> 04:05:26,860
the winter. A prime example of this is I do own a snowmobile trailer that I park at the

3276
04:05:26,860 --> 04:05:32,900
Y. By the way, it is parked on asphalt and I keep it dug out to keep so I can move my

3277
04:05:32,900 --> 04:05:37,580
snowmobiles around and access other places. I was up there after this recent bout of

3278
04:05:37,580 --> 04:05:43,580
storms and I spent six hours digging out my snowmobile trailer. It was a lot of

3279
04:05:43,580 --> 04:05:48,020
work and I was most annoyed not by the fact that I was digging but by the

3280
04:05:48,020 --> 04:05:54,380
constant barrage of noise and wine just this incessant it's unbelievable just

3281
04:05:54,380 --> 04:06:00,360
drove me crazy how noisy it is up there by snowbill traffic alone and you know

3282
04:06:00,360 --> 04:06:05,620
I know it's a passion for some but I say to the snowbill user group do you

3283
04:06:05,620 --> 04:06:09,580
know what a muffler is I mean it's unbelievable so that is my recommendation

3284
04:06:09,580 --> 04:06:13,560
that it should be non-motorized use up there both winter and summer.

3285
04:06:14,240 --> 04:06:15,660
I don't know if you guys have, you know,

3286
04:06:15,680 --> 04:06:19,420
noticed the increase of the popularity of the side-by-side four-by-four razors.

3287
04:06:19,960 --> 04:06:21,320
I don't know if you've been to Moab recently.

3288
04:06:21,820 --> 04:06:22,960
It's out of control down there.

3289
04:06:23,060 --> 04:06:25,520
And that's just going to continue to happen up there, I believe.

3290
04:06:25,760 --> 04:06:29,780
So that would be my recommendation is to have non-motorized use.

3291
04:06:30,800 --> 04:06:35,960
My question and my concerns for you guys as the council is how do you, you know,

3292
04:06:36,100 --> 04:06:38,440
enforce this? It's going to be super difficult.

3293
04:06:38,440 --> 04:06:43,500
I know that's a topic for another time, but I can tell you I have a lot of experience

3294
04:06:43,500 --> 04:06:43,960
to this.

3295
04:06:44,340 --> 04:06:50,020
I work for a snowcat operation in Upper Weber Canyon, and we deal with areas that have long

3296
04:06:50,020 --> 04:06:54,800
been used for snowmobiling that we now have lease on for skiing, and it's a constant battle

3297
04:06:54,800 --> 04:06:57,840
between folks coming up there like, oh, we've been up here for years.

3298
04:06:58,040 --> 04:06:58,540
We own this.

3299
04:06:58,820 --> 04:06:59,500
We have this.

3300
04:07:00,040 --> 04:07:05,340
It's a very hard topic, and I hope that's one that we have a good conversation down

3301
04:07:05,340 --> 04:07:05,700
the road.

3302
04:07:05,760 --> 04:07:06,960
And I wish you luck on that.

3303
04:07:06,960 --> 04:07:09,820
But thank you again for the time. Appreciate it.

3304
04:07:09,880 --> 04:07:11,940
Thanks Bob. We'll get those dimmers.

3305
04:07:18,000 --> 04:07:18,480
Thanks.

3306
04:07:26,620 --> 04:07:32,460
Good evening. My name is Russ Mangoni and I'm with the Utah Snowmobile Association and

3307
04:07:33,360 --> 04:07:37,980
I'm trying to get, trying to get the feeling that we're getting snowballed here.

3308
04:07:39,560 --> 04:07:42,960
We did have a meeting with Utah Open Lands a month ago with Wendy.

3309
04:07:43,760 --> 04:07:47,920
I wasn't at the meeting, but I have listened to the – I'm the Secretary of the USA,

3310
04:07:47,920 --> 04:07:50,360
so I do the minutes and that, so I heard the recording.

3311
04:07:51,000 --> 04:07:54,520
We want to appreciate their time that they put with us.

3312
04:07:55,460 --> 04:07:59,940
I think we kind of came to a conclusion that we plan on working together.

3313
04:08:01,420 --> 04:08:06,480
We understand there's going to be some give-and-take on what's going to be done

3314
04:08:06,480 --> 04:08:13,000
up the bonanza flats in other places. But also, a month ago, I sent all you guys a packet

3315
04:08:13,700 --> 04:08:20,980
with a myth and facts book and an economic impact study that we had done last year for

3316
04:08:20,980 --> 04:08:29,180
the year 2016, 2017. And I kind of highlighted some of the stuff that snowmobiling brings

3317
04:08:29,180 --> 04:08:35,080
into Park or Summit County, it brings in over nine million dollars a year to Summit

3318
04:08:35,080 --> 04:08:48,060
County snowmobiling. That includes lodging, gassing, food permits and everything. Snowmobiling

3319
04:08:48,060 --> 04:08:57,360
does bring in income to the state of Utah. That impact study only showed the state

3320
04:08:57,360 --> 04:09:02,880
of Utah. That didn't show that people that come from outside of state last year alone there's

3321
04:09:02,880 --> 04:09:09,460
over 20,000 out of state snowmobile permits sold in Utah. That's people coming from out

3322
04:09:09,460 --> 04:09:14,380
of state to Utah. This year is quite less because everybody knows there's no snow.

3323
04:09:16,660 --> 04:09:17,220
But

3324
04:09:17,220 --> 04:09:25,440
for the impact of it, everybody knows this year is a bad snow year. Usually when it's

3325
04:09:25,440 --> 04:09:31,580
a good year. You're riding on 12 to 15 feet of snow. You're not hurting any vegetation.

3326
04:09:33,040 --> 04:09:39,780
You're not hurting any wildlife because you'll never find any type of wildlife in 15 feet

3327
04:09:39,780 --> 04:09:47,040
of snow. I've been riding for 15 years and I have never seen any wildlife in the back

3328
04:09:47,040 --> 04:09:53,720
countries right anywhere in Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, so, you know,

3329
04:09:53,920 --> 04:09:57,840
everybody knows when the snow comes, the wildlife goes down to

3330
04:09:57,840 --> 04:10:02,660
lower ground. So but I just want to say we want to work

3331
04:10:02,660 --> 04:10:07,780
together. We want to work with you guys. And I would appreciate

3332
04:10:07,780 --> 04:10:13,460
having open snowmobiling to a point in Bonanza flats. And

3333
04:10:13,460 --> 04:10:16,540
also, I know you don't want to talk about the roads, but I

3334
04:10:16,540 --> 04:10:21,860
live in Salt Lake, I can park at Guardsman, take the road over to Snake Creek, and be

3335
04:10:21,860 --> 04:10:27,240
there in an hour. If I drove over that way, go up to Heber, and that, it's an hour and

3336
04:10:27,240 --> 04:10:34,760
a half drive, plus extra gas and that. Thank you for your time.

3337
04:10:47,310 --> 04:10:51,990
My name is Rick Johnson, and I am the president of the Pine Canyon Property Association.

3338
04:10:51,990 --> 04:10:54,190
So we are one of two that are up there.

3339
04:10:56,730 --> 04:11:00,270
And we have, I have worked quite a bit with Wendy.

3340
04:11:00,850 --> 04:11:03,990
And she's kept me in the loop as best she could.

3341
04:11:05,010 --> 04:11:06,490
We have regular conversations.

3342
04:11:07,090 --> 04:11:10,850
Most of them are very positive and respectful.

3343
04:11:11,330 --> 04:11:12,490
So I do appreciate that.

3344
04:11:13,070 --> 04:11:16,210
This last report came out that was just done.

3345
04:11:16,390 --> 04:11:18,710
And I do have a few disagreements with it.

3346
04:11:19,550 --> 04:11:20,490
But they're basics.

3347
04:11:20,490 --> 04:11:23,210
And it's because we haven't had a voice yet.

3348
04:11:24,650 --> 04:11:29,790
And we've asked from the early stages to be part of the technical committee, part of the jurisdictional committee.

3349
04:11:29,970 --> 04:11:31,030
We are the neighbor up there.

3350
04:11:31,330 --> 04:11:41,770
We have a huge impact that has affected us and where this is going to go and how we commute into our property both summer and winter.

3351
04:11:42,550 --> 04:11:54,890
So non motorized across the board of both summer is not that hard to deal with other than we need to get back to the county roads and have that discussion which we were said is not appropriate tonight.

3352
04:11:54,950 --> 04:11:56,110
So we're hoping to open that door.

3353
04:11:56,810 --> 04:12:05,970
What I'm asking tonight is make this part of that technical committee allow us into that other than just as a bystander and voice our opinions.

3354
04:12:06,270 --> 04:12:07,690
We do show up to the meetings.

3355
04:12:07,870 --> 04:12:09,130
We do have our concerns.

3356
04:12:09,130 --> 04:12:13,710
Let us have a stronger voice and help guide this towards a win-win for all of us.

3357
04:12:15,310 --> 04:12:20,830
We've sat back, been told to watch the process, let it unfold, and we've done that.

3358
04:12:20,950 --> 04:12:25,350
And I think we've been very respectful up to this point, and I don't want that to change.

3359
04:12:26,090 --> 04:12:32,250
But I do want more of a voice, and I do want more of an opinion on the direction of where this is going to go

3360
04:12:32,250 --> 04:12:35,870
and how we can help steer it to the benefit of all of us.

3361
04:12:35,870 --> 04:12:38,450
As Bridget mentioned, this is a gift.

3362
04:12:39,030 --> 04:12:41,710
We are so happy that this is not a development

3363
04:12:42,150 --> 04:12:44,270
and another resort and hotels up there.

3364
04:12:44,630 --> 04:12:47,750
This is the best solution, that we all chipped in our money

3365
04:12:47,750 --> 04:12:50,270
and our time to make this happen,

3366
04:12:50,270 --> 04:12:51,730
along with what you've done as well.

3367
04:12:52,430 --> 04:12:53,450
So that's what we're asking,

3368
04:12:54,050 --> 04:12:57,690
and hopefully we can weasel our way into these committees

3369
04:12:57,690 --> 04:12:59,130
and have a stronger voice.

3370
04:12:59,470 --> 04:13:00,670
I've begged and begged and begged

3371
04:13:00,670 --> 04:13:02,910
and been told no, I don't have many times.

3372
04:13:04,010 --> 04:13:11,390
But I'm asking again, can we be on that committee, can we have a stronger voice, and can we help guide the process? Thank you.

3373
04:13:22,860 --> 04:13:36,620
Hi, my name is Ann Bransford. I wasn't going to make any comments, but ditto to what Rick said. I represent the private property owners within Bonanza Flat.

3374
04:13:36,620 --> 04:13:47,460
that, our parcel is that rectangle, the triangle one that is another Dalto de Durco, and without

3375
04:13:47,460 --> 04:13:53,180
being cutesy, I mean we've been property owners up there for, I don't know, five generations,

3376
04:13:53,640 --> 04:13:59,140
and we're so happy to welcome you to our neighborhood. So I have asked time and time

3377
04:13:59,140 --> 04:14:10,100
again, to ride the property, pick up, you know, things that shouldn't be up there. Wendy

3378
04:14:10,100 --> 04:14:16,260
and I have met, but I would like to be part of the process, just like Rick, because I have

3379
04:14:16,260 --> 04:14:24,080
a history, as Wendy would agree, probably greater than most. And we want to be part

3380
04:14:24,080 --> 04:14:35,100
the solution. And we're up there and I'm listening. I'm here. So please let us help you figure

3381
04:14:35,100 --> 04:14:42,280
this out because it's a beautiful piece of property. But again, we all want to make the

3382
04:14:42,280 --> 04:14:46,080
best decisions for that. Thank you.

3383
04:15:00,370 --> 04:15:07,630
Hi, I'm Andrew Napier and I'm an old town resident, but I own property in Brighton Estates.

3384
04:15:09,110 --> 04:15:13,530
And I just want to say thank you first because I'm super excited about this because this is

3385
04:15:13,530 --> 04:15:17,290
definitely my favorite place in the world. So I'm really, really excited to see it being

3386
04:15:17,290 --> 04:15:24,590
preserved. The only issue that I wanted to bring up tonight is that my only objection

3387
04:15:24,590 --> 04:15:31,170
with the uses is the snowmobile usage because I think unlike a lot of other parts of the

3388
04:15:31,170 --> 04:15:37,710
Wasatch, it's much flatter. And I think that although in theory it sounds good to have

3389
04:15:37,710 --> 04:15:43,110
everyone touring and snowshoeing around, I spent 10 years up there and I've never

3390
04:15:43,110 --> 04:15:50,470
seen anyone snowshoeing or touring in the back parts of this parcel. And I do think

3391
04:15:50,470 --> 04:15:57,230
I think it's important to respect a lot of the people who donated to this, to this piece

3392
04:15:57,230 --> 04:16:01,990
of land with the assumption that we would still be allowed to snowmobile there.

3393
04:16:04,830 --> 04:16:11,090
And yeah, I think this has already been reiterated but I also am certainly concerned about the

3394
04:16:11,090 --> 04:16:16,270
access issue and I think it's important to stress that just allowing people to use

3395
04:16:16,270 --> 04:16:21,490
one road won't work, like allowing people to use the county road coming from Big Cottonwood

3396
04:16:22,170 --> 04:16:28,250
and accessing the plot is not viable, like you can't go across that road without hitting

3397
04:16:28,250 --> 04:16:35,470
an avalanche area. And one of the pictures that was shown previously, as someone already

3398
04:16:35,470 --> 04:16:39,750
mentioned, was an access in the spring when Pine Canyon Road is melted out and we have

3399
04:16:39,750 --> 04:16:45,370
to have another way to access our property. So I really think just making a route is

3400
04:16:45,370 --> 04:16:49,510
It's not really a viable option, I think you need more of an area for people to access

3401
04:16:49,510 --> 04:16:50,110
their property.

3402
04:16:52,870 --> 04:16:58,670
And I just want to stress that I'm really, really excited about this, but I also think

3403
04:16:58,670 --> 04:17:04,170
it's important to get people up there and get people there who are going to become

3404
04:17:04,650 --> 04:17:08,470
environmentalists and who are going to work to do other things like this, because this

3405
04:17:08,470 --> 04:17:11,610
is like the most amazing thing I've ever seen happen in Park City.

3406
04:17:11,610 --> 04:17:16,570
and the reason it happened was because there's people snowmobiling up there,

3407
04:17:16,670 --> 04:17:18,810
it was because there's people cross-country skiing up there,

3408
04:17:18,890 --> 04:17:20,810
it's because there's people back-country skiing up there.

3409
04:17:21,030 --> 04:17:24,450
And I think it's really, really important to get as many people,

3410
04:17:25,070 --> 04:17:26,570
you know, without destroying the landscape,

3411
04:17:26,570 --> 04:17:30,450
but get as many people up there using it and seeing how great it is

3412
04:17:30,450 --> 04:17:33,450
so that when the next time this comes around with some other development,

3413
04:17:33,870 --> 04:17:38,510
all those same people will go and donate money and have organizations.

3414
04:17:38,510 --> 04:17:44,930
like there was a really cool event that happened at rock and rallies that raised I think 15 or

3415
04:17:44,930 --> 04:17:54,350
$20,000 maybe more 30 and I know he uses that area for for snowmobiling so that he can ski and I mean I

3416
04:17:55,010 --> 04:18:00,290
think there's a misconception that people who are snowmobiling are just driving around and wrecking

3417
04:18:00,290 --> 04:18:05,210
everything but the reality is we're driving our skis and our camera gear up to the top of the

3418
04:18:05,210 --> 04:18:07,130
mountain, parking or snowmobile, and then scheme.

3419
04:18:07,810 --> 04:18:09,790
And I think if that axis is taken away,

3420
04:18:09,910 --> 04:18:11,690
a lot of people just are gonna stop using it,

3421
04:18:11,690 --> 04:18:13,950
which would be a shame, so.

3422
04:18:28,200 --> 04:18:30,420
Hi everyone, Brooke Huntz.

3423
04:18:30,860 --> 04:18:31,940
I live in Park City.

3424
04:18:32,860 --> 04:18:36,940
I'm planning on paying for the bond for the next 15 years.

3425
04:18:39,750 --> 04:18:40,850
Or longer, right?

3426
04:18:42,490 --> 04:18:43,510
Thank you, 16.

3427
04:18:44,010 --> 04:18:45,510
And I happen to be on COSAC.

3428
04:18:46,230 --> 04:18:48,330
And I happen to be the COSAC liaison

3429
04:18:48,330 --> 04:18:53,750
to one of the stakeholder committees, which is apparently a very envious position.

3430
04:18:54,750 --> 04:18:57,670
So I had no idea how good it was.

3431
04:19:00,030 --> 04:19:04,250
But what we do on that committee and what we will be doing as stakeholders

3432
04:19:04,250 --> 04:19:09,010
is thinking about the words of the bond, which include the preservation of open space

3433
04:19:09,010 --> 04:19:13,510
and to protect the conservation values, which are not in my mind.

3434
04:19:13,510 --> 04:19:19,910
And I think that I will have to go back to both of those committees and review so I can't

3435
04:19:19,910 --> 04:19:21,090
speak on their behalf at this moment.

3436
04:19:21,230 --> 04:19:27,310
But I don't believe that those conservation values include motorized use, camping, dog

3437
04:19:27,310 --> 04:19:30,630
waste and pumping out waste stations every other day.

3438
04:19:33,690 --> 04:19:41,370
But I had no idea when I read the report and I viewed the graphic photos that that's

3439
04:19:41,370 --> 04:19:42,350
what we were going to expect.

3440
04:19:42,350 --> 04:19:45,910
that we were in already enjoy this place too much.

3441
04:19:46,130 --> 04:19:50,550
I am shocked and disheartened by the behaviors

3442
04:19:50,550 --> 04:19:54,910
of what's gone on and I'm glad we monitored

3443
04:19:54,910 --> 04:19:57,630
because our baseline shouldn't be the baseline

3444
04:19:57,630 --> 04:20:01,190
of what we saw since the city purchased the property.

3445
04:20:03,050 --> 04:20:05,790
When the last stakeholder committee we had,

3446
04:20:06,070 --> 04:20:07,050
there were two trains of thought.

3447
04:20:07,710 --> 04:20:10,630
There was one train of thought that said,

3448
04:20:10,630 --> 04:20:18,210
said, we should recommend strict parameters for uses, caring capacity, dogs, motorized

3449
04:20:18,210 --> 04:20:21,810
vehicles, all of these things because of the conservation values and what we think we're

3450
04:20:21,810 --> 04:20:27,170
here to protect. Then there was another train of thought that said, we want, we think people

3451
04:20:27,170 --> 04:20:32,950
are good. We think dogs are great. We love to recreate on whatever thing we want to

3452
04:20:32,950 --> 04:20:37,590
do, whether that be skis or snowmobiles. And everyone should, is going to be great

3453
04:20:37,590 --> 04:20:45,130
at it? Well, that's not what we saw. We have a demonstrated lack of respect, of entitlement,

3454
04:20:45,730 --> 04:20:53,470
and that the city's ownership is far less than if it was private. I'm starting to think

3455
04:20:53,470 --> 04:21:00,490
maybe we should have left it go private. I mean, the amount of pressure on us because

3456
04:21:00,490 --> 04:21:09,470
it's a city ownership to allow private uses to benefit is astounding. There's respect and we

3457
04:21:09,470 --> 04:21:16,250
need to think about what that is in the context of our community and getting along, but there's

3458
04:21:16,250 --> 04:21:24,670
also the reality of what people paid for and what we think this should be. And I had no idea.

3459
04:21:25,010 --> 04:21:29,370
I thought for sure people were going to behave better. This was the year to do it. This

3460
04:21:29,370 --> 04:21:32,770
This was the year to permit your cars and say who was parking where.

3461
04:21:33,070 --> 04:21:35,170
This was the year to not park out in the fields.

3462
04:21:35,250 --> 04:21:39,050
This was the year because there was low snow to not be running over vegetation.

3463
04:21:39,890 --> 04:21:40,990
It didn't do that.

3464
04:21:42,870 --> 04:21:43,970
I'm so disappointed.

3465
04:21:44,910 --> 04:21:46,710
And I wish it had been different.

3466
04:21:47,490 --> 04:21:53,110
But I guess it goes when we go back to our stakeholder committee, sorry, any community,

3467
04:21:53,930 --> 04:21:56,630
it's pretty obvious which track I'm going to support.

3468
04:21:57,390 --> 04:21:57,970
Thank you.

3469
04:21:57,970 --> 04:21:58,590
Good evening,

3470
04:22:08,220 --> 04:22:08,420
everybody.

3471
04:22:08,780 --> 04:22:09,280
Hey, Charlie.

3472
04:22:09,400 --> 04:22:11,400
Hi, Charlie Sturges with Mountain Trails Foundation.

3473
04:22:11,740 --> 04:22:14,460
I had this long spiel all written out, right?

3474
04:22:14,840 --> 04:22:15,580
I'm skipping it.

3475
04:22:15,720 --> 04:22:16,460
It's late, right?

3476
04:22:16,700 --> 04:22:17,840
So I'm just going to skip past it.

3477
04:22:17,840 --> 04:22:18,460
Why are you past your bedtime?

3478
04:22:18,700 --> 04:22:21,320
But you know, yeah, it's past my bedtime.

3479
04:22:21,660 --> 04:22:23,340
I can't write anyhow, so.

3480
04:22:24,540 --> 04:22:28,360
But you know, I think what I was hearing tonight, and also I want to point out I'm

3481
04:22:28,360 --> 04:22:29,620
also part of the technical committee.

3482
04:22:30,420 --> 04:22:35,640
What I was hearing tonight is I think reasonable concerns on the part of the people who

3483
04:22:35,640 --> 04:22:43,140
live up there, and that as we go move forward in the technical committee, the plans that

3484
04:22:43,140 --> 04:22:49,880
we're looking at, the possible solutions, the management design, is keeping watershed

3485
04:22:49,880 --> 04:22:54,460
wildlife and wildlands at the top of its list and planning.

3486
04:22:55,300 --> 04:22:57,700
Everything is pretty much weighed against that.

3487
04:22:58,160 --> 04:23:04,700
I think the additional input from other people in the room is great, invited, but

3488
04:23:04,700 --> 04:23:10,700
But I think that it's – I think if people in the room here take the time to just wait

3489
04:23:10,700 --> 04:23:15,300
until some of the plans come out and we actually get to see what's really out there, it'll

3490
04:23:15,300 --> 04:23:16,140
be a huge help.

3491
04:23:16,260 --> 04:23:18,840
And I think people are going to be impressed with what we're trying to do.

3492
04:23:19,620 --> 04:23:20,020
Thank you.

3493
04:23:20,520 --> 04:23:21,080
Thanks, Charlie.

3494
04:23:30,990 --> 04:23:31,370
J.P.

3495
04:23:31,450 --> 04:23:31,710
Gendron.

3496
04:23:31,850 --> 04:23:33,250
I'm a resident of Brighton States.

3497
04:23:33,670 --> 04:23:34,590
I'll keep this real brief.

3498
04:23:35,430 --> 04:23:41,230
A lot of the pictures we saw and things of summer and winter are in an area that

3499
04:23:41,230 --> 04:23:46,130
But you're now in charge of managing that was previously private and unmanaged.

3500
04:23:46,430 --> 04:23:52,250
People were technically coming over, whether it was Gardens Pass or from Empire Pass in

3501
04:23:52,250 --> 04:23:57,990
Park City, and technically trespassing in an area that wasn't previously maintained.

3502
04:23:58,410 --> 04:24:04,510
So as you go forward in considering these things, the environmental integrity, primary

3503
04:24:04,510 --> 04:24:07,410
concern as a resident is our access, of course.

3504
04:24:07,410 --> 04:24:17,130
But think about inclusiveness, because this area has had a lot of different uses and a lot of different people that are all for the conservation going forward that have contributed.

3505
04:24:17,810 --> 04:24:35,830
But instead of burying other people from coming up and excluding uses, consider how to be inclusive and involve the Somalville community, involve the environmental protection community as well.

3506
04:24:35,830 --> 04:24:42,230
Well, this is obviously a very complicated area that borders a lot of different, either

3507
04:24:42,230 --> 04:24:47,750
a neighborhood or state forest or ski resort, so many things and so I urge you to just think

3508
04:24:47,750 --> 04:24:54,110
about it roundly in how we can include everybody as opposed to exclude people.

3509
04:24:54,910 --> 04:24:55,550
Anyone

3510
04:25:00,380 --> 04:25:00,720
else?

3511
04:25:10,660 --> 04:25:16,620
Good evening, Sarah Jo Dickens with Ecology Bridge and Environmental Consulting.

3512
04:25:16,620 --> 04:25:17,440
First

3513
04:25:25,190 --> 04:25:28,750
off, I actually am really impressed with the amount of work that has gone into

3514
04:25:28,750 --> 04:25:31,370
the management planning for Bonanza Flat.

3515
04:25:32,530 --> 04:25:37,530
A lot of times land trusts don't have the funds and the support and the ability to put

3516
04:25:37,530 --> 04:25:40,170
this much into any kind of a plan.

3517
04:25:40,330 --> 04:25:44,810
So I think kudos for having that done and for the city supporting that.

3518
04:25:46,390 --> 04:25:51,030
Couple of things I just want to say tonight really come around the wetlands and how important

3519
04:25:51,030 --> 04:25:52,610
the wetland areas are up there.

3520
04:25:52,610 --> 04:26:02,550
If our watershed is one of our priority conservation values, I think we need to really look hard

3521
04:26:02,550 --> 04:26:08,490
at where our wetlands are, and we need to define them as a wetland is defined by the

3522
04:26:08,490 --> 04:26:12,350
government and by environmental scientists, and that includes wet meadows.

3523
04:26:13,910 --> 04:26:19,030
These are landscapes that are important in filtering our water, protecting the quality,

3524
04:26:19,630 --> 04:26:21,330
and then also holding capacity.

3525
04:26:21,330 --> 04:26:27,630
And as the city has put so much effort into determining what our net zero goals for emission

3526
04:26:27,630 --> 04:26:31,510
are going to be, wetlands are also an important carbon sink.

3527
04:26:32,370 --> 04:26:37,930
It's easy to look up Bonanza Flat and see the forest, and everyone can see that that's

3528
04:26:37,930 --> 04:26:39,310
an amazing carbon sink.

3529
04:26:40,190 --> 04:26:45,210
One of the sad things about forest carbon sinks is that the carbon is in the trees,

3530
04:26:45,920 --> 04:26:46,750
which can burn.

3531
04:26:47,450 --> 04:26:51,690
So that's a carbon sink that's really sensitive to disturbance.

3532
04:26:52,950 --> 04:26:56,930
Wetlands, it's in the soils primarily, so it's much more protected.

3533
04:26:57,950 --> 04:27:00,990
And there's a lot that we can do to enhance those wetlands up there.

3534
04:27:01,910 --> 04:27:04,970
Snowmobiling across them is not one of them.

3535
04:27:05,790 --> 04:27:09,850
Snowmobiling, particularly in seasons like this where we have very low snowpack,

3536
04:27:10,410 --> 04:27:15,970
not only does it compact the soils, it changes the ability for the snow to melt

3537
04:27:15,970 --> 04:27:18,450
in a way that it can filter into our wetlands.

3538
04:27:19,030 --> 04:27:21,210
It also can change the way water moves across

3539
04:27:21,640 --> 04:27:22,650
and create erosion.

3540
04:27:23,110 --> 04:27:25,950
And erosion in a wetland is a really bad thing.

3541
04:27:26,050 --> 04:27:28,610
We start to lose our ability to sequester that carbon.

3542
04:27:29,430 --> 04:27:33,150
We lose our ability to maintain the vegetation.

3543
04:27:33,790 --> 04:27:37,390
And snowmobiling can actually destroy wetland vegetation.

3544
04:27:37,850 --> 04:27:40,530
Maybe not when it's 15 feet deep snow,

3545
04:27:41,370 --> 04:27:43,670
but snow like this year and a little bit more snow,

3546
04:27:43,670 --> 04:27:48,570
that's not enough to protect a wetland so I don't know if I want to say keep

3547
04:27:48,570 --> 04:27:53,990
snowmobiles out entirely but I definitely think that it's important that we

3548
04:27:53,990 --> 04:27:59,530
recognize those sensitive areas and in the areas that are defined already I

3549
04:27:59,530 --> 04:28:03,150
could see that there are some wetland areas that aren't defined in some of

3550
04:28:03,150 --> 04:28:07,110
those more sensitive and less used areas and I think it might be worth

3551
04:28:07,110 --> 04:28:10,530
looking into including those areas as well thank you

3552
04:28:15,740 --> 04:28:17,520
okay I'll

3553
04:28:27,060 --> 04:28:27,340
keep it

3554
04:28:27,340 --> 04:28:31,120
brief. I know it's late. My name is Katie Eldridge. I'm a resident of Brighton

3555
04:28:31,120 --> 04:28:38,580
State since 2005. I would just like to echo what our neighborhood has said

3556
04:28:38,580 --> 04:28:44,740
already and I think if we have a unified message it's the access and the

3557
04:28:44,740 --> 04:28:49,840
working together and that our doors are open. Our gate is not open but we will

3558
04:28:51,640 --> 04:28:57,900
And we want you to see and feel and know and experience how we live.

3559
04:28:58,560 --> 04:29:03,300
So if it's a field trip, you can call any person in this room,

3560
04:29:03,300 --> 04:29:08,380
and we'd love to have you over for tea, coffee, champagne, whatever it is,

3561
04:29:08,440 --> 04:29:11,120
just so you can understand how we survive.

3562
04:29:11,760 --> 04:29:13,160
And we lean on each other,

3563
04:29:13,480 --> 04:29:17,100
and we're all excited about this new chapter of preservation.

3564
04:29:17,100 --> 04:29:26,080
But we just want you to look at us as a room full of really smart, resourceful people who want to help.

3565
04:29:26,360 --> 04:29:29,200
So that's our unified message.

3566
04:29:29,900 --> 04:29:30,860
So thanks for what you're doing.

3567
04:29:31,780 --> 04:29:32,420
Thanks, Katie.

3568
04:29:36,720 --> 04:29:36,940
Okay.

3569
04:29:37,100 --> 04:29:39,600
Unless anybody else steps up, we're going to close the public hearing.

3570
04:29:42,160 --> 04:29:44,680
Do you guys need a break before discussion?

3571
04:29:46,360 --> 04:29:47,480
I want to keep going.

3572
04:29:48,800 --> 04:29:51,130
When I'm ready.

3573
04:29:51,670 --> 04:29:52,150
Okay.

3574
04:29:57,040 --> 04:29:59,040
I hope you're referring to Ray to talk.

3575
04:30:03,920 --> 04:30:04,420
Okay.

3576
04:30:07,860 --> 04:30:10,780
Thoughts? Feedback for these guys on the plan?

3577
04:30:13,350 --> 04:30:14,370
Yep. Go ahead.

3578
04:30:14,930 --> 04:30:30,670
So I, you know, what impressed me the most tonight out of the public comment were the speakers who talked about what we can create here and keeping the focus on the opportunity we have and the opportunity to collaborate and to create something.

3579
04:30:30,670 --> 04:30:34,630
And that's where I am about this land.

3580
04:30:34,990 --> 04:30:39,750
And I do think that you've done a great report, and I agree with the way you've laid it out.

3581
04:30:39,850 --> 04:30:43,790
I think watershed is first and foremost the organizing principle up there.

3582
04:30:44,350 --> 04:30:48,250
I think it does have significant conservation values.

3583
04:30:48,450 --> 04:30:52,770
I think the animal habitat is very important, and I think where we are going to get

3584
04:30:52,770 --> 04:30:57,130
into probably a deeper conversation where there's going to be some slight difference

3585
04:30:57,130 --> 04:31:03,610
of opinion is the level of intensity of possible passive uses, right? I mean, nobody's going

3586
04:31:03,610 --> 04:31:08,630
to really look for active use up there that, I mean, I think by and large, the majority

3587
04:31:08,630 --> 04:31:13,650
is going to agree we're going to go passive use, not active use, which means non-motorized,

3588
04:31:13,750 --> 04:31:19,750
probably means human-powered. And I am making some assumptions, but this is where I'm

3589
04:31:19,750 --> 04:31:25,690
going. And I think when we get down to what level of intensity those passive uses

3590
04:31:25,690 --> 04:31:28,370
can be like, you know, the Nordic scheme.

3591
04:31:28,570 --> 04:31:30,190
Should we have a Nordic track up there?

3592
04:31:30,350 --> 04:31:31,970
That does add some intensity.

3593
04:31:32,090 --> 04:31:34,130
It's a passive use, but it adds intensity

3594
04:31:34,130 --> 04:31:36,570
when you bring a groomer up there and you groom a track.

3595
04:31:37,050 --> 04:31:38,550
So those are the sort of things

3596
04:31:38,550 --> 04:31:40,850
that I think are going to get a little more difficult.

3597
04:31:41,290 --> 04:31:43,710
But I'm fully supportive of what you've laid out.

3598
04:31:43,790 --> 04:31:44,970
I think you're doing a great job.

3599
04:31:45,070 --> 04:31:46,350
It's a really nice first step.

3600
04:31:47,230 --> 04:31:50,190
You know, Carl, with, you know, your comments,

3601
04:31:50,450 --> 04:31:52,850
I appreciate you wanting to be part of the conversation.

3602
04:31:52,850 --> 04:32:03,530
From our perspective, you did initiate and energize your folks, and they came to us as

3603
04:32:03,530 --> 04:32:07,130
you feel like some of the comments back to you might have been a bit disrespectful.

3604
04:32:07,730 --> 04:32:09,610
You should see some of the emails we got.

3605
04:32:10,450 --> 04:32:15,050
So you did succeed, and you are part of the conversation, and that's terrific.

3606
04:32:15,270 --> 04:32:19,790
We want you to be part of the conversation, and we want you to help create what we're

3607
04:32:19,790 --> 04:32:21,950
all trying to achieve here.

3608
04:32:21,950 --> 04:32:27,370
And so, from our perspective, we got hit with a whole bunch of emails that had some, you know,

3609
04:32:27,450 --> 04:32:28,770
really interesting language.

3610
04:32:29,170 --> 04:32:31,110
And so, you want to keep that in mind as well.

3611
04:32:31,410 --> 04:32:31,670
Thanks.

3612
04:32:35,050 --> 04:32:35,350
Becca?

3613
04:32:36,290 --> 04:32:44,450
Well, I also was very impressed with both the Conservation Report,

3614
04:32:44,910 --> 04:32:48,150
or the Bonanza Flat Winter Resource Inventory and Summary.

3615
04:32:48,810 --> 04:32:50,410
Is that the official title?

3616
04:32:52,290 --> 04:32:54,170
And also the feedback tonight.

3617
04:32:54,170 --> 04:32:57,450
And I think the one thing that is becoming very clear is that we do have some great partners

3618
04:32:57,450 --> 04:33:01,850
and the people from Brighton Estates, and if their main concern is access, then I think

3619
04:33:01,850 --> 04:33:05,690
that that's something we need to work to protect and make sure that they have access

3620
04:33:05,690 --> 04:33:06,650
to and from their homes.

3621
04:33:06,750 --> 04:33:10,850
But it doesn't seem like it makes sense to have snowmobiling in the area.

3622
04:33:11,050 --> 04:33:19,430
I did think, was it, sorry, maybe Andrew and your information about, you know, having

3623
04:33:19,430 --> 04:33:26,430
corridors so that people can access their homes in those areas, but maybe not have to fear

3624
04:33:26,430 --> 04:33:28,810
for being caught in an avalanche would make sense.

3625
04:33:29,170 --> 04:33:35,610
So I don't know if there's ways that we could have a designated corridor for people to access

3626
04:33:35,610 --> 04:33:42,290
their homes or other points of access without having it be quite a specific, but it does

3627
04:33:42,290 --> 04:33:51,110
It does seem like there needs to be some regulation and rating in and some enforcement, and enforcement

3628
04:33:51,110 --> 04:33:55,010
is always the hardest part, but it does seem like maybe Brighton Estates can be a help

3629
04:33:55,010 --> 04:33:56,210
with some of that as well.

3630
04:33:59,550 --> 04:34:06,770
And yeah, I think it says you're looking for direction on the permitted and prohibited

3631
04:34:06,770 --> 04:34:09,210
but it uses, I'm in absolute agreement as long as the access

3632
04:34:11,950 --> 04:34:15,350
direct staff to meet with the jurisdictional sure

3633
04:34:16,310 --> 04:34:18,410
and the public open house sounds great

3634
04:34:18,410 --> 04:34:20,730
to hear more, to get more public feedback on it.

3635
04:34:21,330 --> 04:34:21,830
Thank you.

3636
04:34:22,630 --> 04:34:23,790
And thank you for all you guys do.

3637
04:34:23,910 --> 04:34:25,410
I know you guys have worked so hard this winter.

3638
04:34:25,810 --> 04:34:27,090
Spent a ton of time up there.

3639
04:34:27,270 --> 04:34:29,090
So I'm really grateful for you guys

3640
04:34:29,630 --> 04:34:31,570
being our eyes and ears and bonanza flats.

3641
04:34:31,950 --> 04:34:33,710
It was really tough back up many times.

3642
04:34:34,050 --> 04:34:36,170
It was very difficult for me to go up there.

3643
04:34:36,170 --> 04:34:36,930
Thank you.

3644
04:34:37,190 --> 04:34:37,630
I know.

3645
04:34:38,030 --> 04:34:39,950
I can see that in your tan face.

3646
04:34:44,880 --> 04:34:45,620
Other thoughts?

3647
04:34:47,240 --> 04:34:47,960
Jump in, man.

3648
04:34:49,100 --> 04:34:51,060
I, too, am so impressed with this report.

3649
04:34:51,280 --> 04:34:52,020
I mean, I loved it.

3650
04:34:52,360 --> 04:34:55,440
I read it twice because I kept feeling like I was missing things in it,

3651
04:34:55,460 --> 04:34:57,280
so I'd go back and highlight some different things.

3652
04:34:58,220 --> 04:34:59,880
I'm a really visual person,

3653
04:35:00,040 --> 04:35:03,600
and so I appreciated the maps and things in there.

3654
04:35:04,080 --> 04:35:07,640
It would be helpful for me on the map that we have up here now

3655
04:35:07,640 --> 04:35:14,040
Now, if it could also include these recreation areas that we'll refer to tonight.

3656
04:35:14,740 --> 04:35:20,280
So as we're thinking about how do we access, I mean, I don't have a really good picture

3657
04:35:20,280 --> 04:35:27,300
of exactly where they lay in relation to Nancy Flatt, in relation to Brighton State.

3658
04:35:27,660 --> 04:35:32,940
And so the more context we can put it in is really going to help me be able to see

3659
04:35:32,940 --> 04:35:34,400
it a little bit better.

3660
04:35:34,400 --> 04:35:42,400
But I appreciate the staff taking the time to give Stephen and me a tour up there to

3661
04:35:42,400 --> 04:35:48,580
allow us to actually see the snowmobiles buzzing around and hear the word noise pollution

3662
04:35:48,580 --> 04:35:50,980
came to mind exactly as we were up there.

3663
04:35:51,240 --> 04:35:54,420
So I have seen that in action up there.

3664
04:35:54,840 --> 04:35:58,220
And I would appreciate just being able to kind of put it all in context.

3665
04:35:58,620 --> 04:35:59,180
Absolutely.

3666
04:36:01,990 --> 04:36:02,470
Steve?

3667
04:36:04,920 --> 04:36:07,040
I like the proposals you guys have put in place.

3668
04:36:07,040 --> 04:36:11,080
One thing that would help me, and certainly it's been the big piece of interest here,

3669
04:36:11,380 --> 04:36:15,360
is access to the housing back in there.

3670
04:36:16,400 --> 04:36:23,040
I'm kind of simple-minded. I look at the picture that you have that has the management zones on it,

3671
04:36:23,100 --> 04:36:27,380
and it actually has kind of a different Google map, you know, aerial map,

3672
04:36:27,500 --> 04:36:31,680
and it shows the roads in there. And just at some simple level, you look at the roads,

3673
04:36:31,800 --> 04:36:36,240
and it looks like you can come off of Pine Canyon and basically get pretty much anywhere

3674
04:36:36,240 --> 04:36:42,880
into Brighton Estates, on Brighton Estates roads. And so, if that's the case, then I want

3675
04:36:42,880 --> 04:36:47,740
to understand from the Brighton folks why that's not sufficient if you have roads and

3676
04:36:47,740 --> 04:36:53,240
you have your own access and all that kind of stuff. And if it isn't sufficient, then

3677
04:36:53,240 --> 04:36:57,620
I guess I'd like to kind of understand where and why and how at some level, because

3678
04:36:57,620 --> 04:37:01,460
it's obviously going to become a point of contention. And, you know, here I am

3679
04:37:01,460 --> 04:37:06,460
looking at a little image of one thing and it just looks all interconnected and it looks

3680
04:37:06,460 --> 04:37:09,540
like you go down Pine Canyon Road and you turn on the right place and you go to everybody's

3681
04:37:09,540 --> 04:37:15,480
house. And so, and obviously it's going to be different things for different houses

3682
04:37:15,480 --> 04:37:20,080
and the one I heard tonight was seasonality and issues with, you know, if the snow is

3683
04:37:20,080 --> 04:37:26,540
not good enough. But so I just, when we get to that point, I'll kind of want more

3684
04:37:26,540 --> 04:37:30,200
understanding of all of that. I think the basics you guys are working towards

3685
04:37:30,200 --> 04:37:35,000
of the right things. One thing that I don't know if people in the room know that I heard

3686
04:37:35,000 --> 04:37:41,640
on our field trip up there is that when we talk about watershed that Bloodlake without

3687
04:37:41,640 --> 04:37:49,140
the water treatment facility of Park City, Bloodlake is the Girl Scouts water supply.

3688
04:37:50,080 --> 04:37:53,760
And so when we talk about it, it's not one of these kind of levels of indirection

3689
04:37:53,760 --> 04:37:57,460
of soaking through the ground and flowing into the Weaver River and eventually becoming

3690
04:37:57,460 --> 04:38:01,900
coming part of the watershed. It goes into Blood Lake. That's what the Girl Scouts drink.

3691
04:38:02,960 --> 04:38:09,420
And so it really is that important. And so when we talk about things like dog feces and

3692
04:38:09,420 --> 04:38:16,280
human waste and stuff like that up there, it's not many levels of direction removed from

3693
04:38:16,890 --> 04:38:21,100
human consumption. So it really is critical. And I think that's got to be at the

3694
04:38:21,100 --> 04:38:21,740
top of the list.

3695
04:38:23,300 --> 04:38:32,260
Well, this has been great to hear everyone's public input and to look over this report.

3696
04:38:32,820 --> 04:38:37,520
So for you three sitting in the front row there, thanks for all your work on this.

3697
04:38:37,760 --> 04:38:42,760
Oh, and poor Logan, who's had to spend a lot of time up there this winter.

3698
04:38:43,280 --> 04:38:45,040
So you know, I love Bonanza Flat.

3699
04:38:45,260 --> 04:38:47,000
I love riding my bike up there.

3700
04:38:47,280 --> 04:38:49,060
I love taking my dogs up there.

3701
04:38:49,060 --> 04:38:51,080
I love backcountry skiing up there.

3702
04:38:51,640 --> 04:38:56,600
I'm not a snowmobiler, but I have ridden my dirt bike up there, and I like that too.

3703
04:38:58,860 --> 04:39:05,260
But if any one of those uses, oh, and I'm a huge Nordic skier too, but it's dawning

3704
04:39:05,260 --> 04:39:12,740
on me that if any one of those uses is not congruent with the bond language, I got

3705
04:39:12,740 --> 04:39:13,300
to let it go.

3706
04:39:13,300 --> 04:39:23,420
And I think we all need to keep that over-arching thought about that one thing.

3707
04:39:23,560 --> 04:39:29,100
We do tend to get stuck on what we think we're entitled to because it's what we like to do.

3708
04:39:29,640 --> 04:39:35,640
And if I gave money towards the purchase of bonanza flat because I just assumed that

3709
04:39:35,640 --> 04:39:38,720
I could ride my mountain bike up there, well, I was mistaken.

3710
04:39:40,960 --> 04:39:42,900
So I just wanted to say that.

3711
04:39:42,900 --> 04:39:48,480
And I also, you know, this question and hearing all the public comment tonight about the neighbors,

3712
04:39:48,760 --> 04:39:56,800
you know, when we do a special event in town or when we start a new, you know, housing project,

3713
04:39:57,220 --> 04:40:03,160
we involve the neighbors in a big way. We make sure they know what's happening

3714
04:40:03,160 --> 04:40:14,440
And we allow them to, you know, maybe influence our direction or collaborate is maybe a better

3715
04:40:14,440 --> 04:40:15,180
word for that.

3716
04:40:15,360 --> 04:40:20,760
And so as I've heard the neighbors speak this evening, I just want to consider that

3717
04:40:20,760 --> 04:40:22,680
a little bit more with you all.

3718
04:40:25,560 --> 04:40:26,500
I think that's all.

3719
04:40:26,920 --> 04:40:28,060
So thank you.

3720
04:40:30,620 --> 04:40:33,920
Well, I think the plan is spot on.

3721
04:40:33,920 --> 04:40:39,440
I think it's thoughtful. It's taken into account all the feedback we've gotten from our committees.

3722
04:40:39,940 --> 04:40:43,700
It certainly has some refinements yet that we need to fill in some blanks,

3723
04:40:43,700 --> 04:40:47,460
but I think as an overlay to what we're trying to accomplish here, it's outstanding.

3724
04:40:47,780 --> 04:40:50,560
And in particular, I like the concept of the zones,

3725
04:40:50,580 --> 04:40:54,540
because I think as Tim pointed out, intensity is going to be a real challenge here

3726
04:40:54,540 --> 04:40:59,980
in figuring out how we're going to manage people, manage recreation, and structure all that.

3727
04:41:00,140 --> 04:41:01,700
I think the zones get there.

3728
04:41:01,700 --> 04:41:06,580
And I just want to come back to something that I think both Wendy and Bridget said, which

3729
04:41:06,580 --> 04:41:10,080
is talking about, that we need to be grateful we got this done.

3730
04:41:10,560 --> 04:41:15,500
I mean, this is probably one of the most exciting things I've ever been a part of.

3731
04:41:15,820 --> 04:41:19,540
And it's just amazing that we actually protected this piece of land.

3732
04:41:19,840 --> 04:41:24,100
And we did it because we came together as a coalition, all of our communities joined

3733
04:41:24,100 --> 04:41:27,120
together with the common goal of preserving this land.

3734
04:41:27,120 --> 04:41:33,780
And I think we were really clear when we did that that our goal was to forever preserve

3735
04:41:33,780 --> 04:41:37,080
it as open space and protect those conservation values.

3736
04:41:37,480 --> 04:41:41,520
That is something I think we let off every conversation with, and we all knew that was

3737
04:41:41,520 --> 04:41:43,900
going to require some sacrifices, as Lynne put it.

3738
04:41:44,300 --> 04:41:47,880
We have to come back to what we're trying to accomplish, and that might mean we don't

3739
04:41:47,880 --> 04:41:49,500
get everything we want up there.

3740
04:41:50,540 --> 04:41:52,440
I appreciate all the feedback today.

3741
04:41:52,440 --> 04:41:56,880
We want to be a good neighbor on this, and we're going to do our best to do that.

3742
04:41:57,140 --> 04:42:02,620
But I want to let you know that when we took ownership of this, we took the stewardship of this,

3743
04:42:02,760 --> 04:42:08,040
and we told everybody we were going to protect this land, and that is going to be first and foremost in what we do.

3744
04:42:08,400 --> 04:42:11,040
And I believe that is compatible with being a good neighbor.

3745
04:42:11,260 --> 04:42:13,220
So we just need to refine those details.

3746
04:42:14,140 --> 04:42:19,220
But I think this is a tremendous start, and I look forward to seeing us move forward with some of this.

3747
04:42:19,220 --> 04:42:24,000
And as Charlie stated, I think everybody's going to be really impressed with some of the

3748
04:42:24,000 --> 04:42:28,760
things that are going to happen up there when we start to restore trails and really consolidate

3749
04:42:28,760 --> 04:42:34,940
the parking to safe locations, add some bathrooms, and limit access to certain areas so they

3750
04:42:34,940 --> 04:42:35,460
can recover.

3751
04:42:35,720 --> 04:42:38,900
I think we're all going to be pleased with the results, but we have to be a little

3752
04:42:38,900 --> 04:42:42,520
bit patient and have some trust that all this time we're putting into this is going

3753
04:42:42,520 --> 04:42:44,160
to result in a great product.

3754
04:42:44,160 --> 04:42:48,920
So with that, I don't think this is there for any action.

3755
04:42:49,520 --> 04:42:51,800
Do you feel like you got the feedback you needed from us?

3756
04:42:51,980 --> 04:42:56,940
No, I do. I just wanted to ask a quick question because I think, Tim, you brought up a really good point.

3757
04:42:57,300 --> 04:43:02,500
We specifically didn't talk in the report about groomed or non-groomed or whatever Nordic skiing.

3758
04:43:02,840 --> 04:43:07,860
So just to clarify from that perspective, we agree in terms of intensity of use.

3759
04:43:08,200 --> 04:43:10,540
Would you like us to start asking that question?

3760
04:43:10,540 --> 04:43:16,520
We've had a lot of folks, you know, some of the young gentlemen that spoke, really feeling

3761
04:43:16,520 --> 04:43:21,280
like that is something they'd like to see for a lot of the Norc skiing that they do,

3762
04:43:21,540 --> 04:43:23,460
but it does increase a degree of intensity.

3763
04:43:23,940 --> 04:43:27,260
Would you like us to start asking that defined question about Groom versus NON?

3764
04:43:28,720 --> 04:43:29,160
Yes.

3765
04:43:35,000 --> 04:43:40,040
Wendy, I think as we were talking about maybe pilot programming some of that this winter,

3766
04:43:40,280 --> 04:43:43,680
one of the things that we – why we felt it was safe is because we were talking

3767
04:43:43,680 --> 04:43:46,040
about very limited access and very limited use.

3768
04:43:46,940 --> 04:43:51,740
And I would suggest if we are going to try some things like that, we don't go wholehearted.

3769
04:43:52,480 --> 04:43:57,820
We were never talking about plowing the road and opening large parking lots and replicating

3770
04:43:57,820 --> 04:43:58,820
round valley up there.

3771
04:43:58,920 --> 04:44:03,200
We were talking about letting some somewhat limited die-hard users that were willing

3772
04:44:03,200 --> 04:44:07,000
to either take a shuttle up there or ski up, use it and access it.

3773
04:44:07,100 --> 04:44:13,060
And I think if we approach it by not making it too convenient or limiting the user days

3774
04:44:13,060 --> 04:44:17,680
that sort of thing, we might be able to stick our toe in the water and see what those impacts

3775
04:44:17,680 --> 04:44:22,000
are before we create an expectation that that's going to be a free-for-all, which I don't

3776
04:44:22,000 --> 04:44:23,440
think is what we ever intended.

3777
04:44:23,920 --> 04:44:25,840
Thank you for the additional refinement on that.

3778
04:44:26,000 --> 04:44:26,220
I appreciate that.

3779
04:44:26,220 --> 04:44:28,480
Are you guys comfortable with that?

3780
04:44:28,660 --> 04:44:30,160
I believe that's what we talked about initially.

3781
04:44:30,400 --> 04:44:31,660
I just want to make sure to clarify.

3782
04:44:32,060 --> 04:44:34,800
Yeah, when Nan and I were up there, there was a lot of discussion.

3783
04:44:34,800 --> 04:44:40,180
As we were walking along, there's just a lot of discussion about how easy we

3784
04:44:40,180 --> 04:44:44,540
we're going to make it to access that area up there during the winter, I mean obviously

3785
04:44:44,540 --> 04:44:50,120
during the summer the roads open you can drive up, but what provisions we would put in place

3786
04:44:50,120 --> 04:44:55,820
and for what it's worth I was the one I think of the group of us that I was like don't

3787
04:44:55,820 --> 04:44:59,860
make it easy, you know, you can't, it's a sensitive land.

3788
04:45:00,000 --> 04:45:03,920
And it's one thing to talk about getting access to homes and brightness state. It's another

3789
04:45:03,920 --> 04:45:11,500
thing to start having companies running, you know, cross-country ski adventures where they're

3790
04:45:11,500 --> 04:45:16,180
going to bring up bus loads of people and unload them up there. And, you know, it's like that.

3791
04:45:16,280 --> 04:45:21,160
So that's got to be part of the discussion is, and especially if you start talking about

3792
04:45:21,160 --> 04:45:25,040
you're going to start grooming trails, that's going to be the next logical thing that's

3793
04:45:25,040 --> 04:45:30,200
going to come out of somebody's mouth. So I think when it comes back, I mean, that's

3794
04:45:30,200 --> 04:45:34,900
obviously got to be part of the equation is accessed during the winter and how it's either

3795
04:45:34,900 --> 04:45:35,900
limited or provided.

3796
04:45:36,380 --> 04:45:40,860
Okay. And the only thing I would say is, Steve, to your point, I think I wrote down

3797
04:45:40,860 --> 04:45:45,720
some of the questions that you would like answers to that we can go out and start to

3798
04:45:45,720 --> 04:45:50,080
discern what that is, talking with the neighborhood and whatnot. But certainly if there are

3799
04:45:50,080 --> 04:45:54,120
additional thoughts or questions that you think would help you, in terms of fully

3800
04:45:54,120 --> 04:45:59,260
understanding the scope of what they're looking at, feel free to email us and we'll make

3801
04:45:59,260 --> 04:46:01,360
sure that we go out and get those answers.

3802
04:46:01,640 --> 04:46:02,280
Okay, thank you.

3803
04:46:04,480 --> 04:46:08,440
One remaining question, Bob Merrill brought up a good point and something that I've thought

3804
04:46:08,440 --> 04:46:11,740
a lot about when I've been up there is the constant noise pollution.

3805
04:46:12,320 --> 04:46:17,920
In the summer, hate to implicate anyone here who's a Harley owner, but you know the

3806
04:46:17,920 --> 04:46:23,660
Harley traffic is really obvious and then in the winter the snowmobile and just

3807
04:46:23,660 --> 04:46:28,520
cars in general. I mean, it is so popular, it's beautiful. And I don't, is there any

3808
04:46:28,520 --> 04:46:37,060
way of measuring or quantifying or, I don't know, yeah. We do it on Main Street.

3809
04:46:38,180 --> 04:46:42,220
Certainly that is part of the aesthetic and the scenic value, obviously, that that kind

3810
04:46:42,220 --> 04:46:47,980
of plays into there. And we will look for ways similar to how we're monitoring the

3811
04:46:47,980 --> 04:46:52,240
water quality to figure out if we can get an understanding of the decibels that are

3812
04:46:52,240 --> 04:46:58,100
happening up there and I didn't even really realize the home muffler thing on

3813
04:46:58,100 --> 04:47:04,620
a snowmobile but hey once they're electric snowmobiles you know maybe maybe

3814
04:47:04,620 --> 04:47:06,920
that's what everyone has to have right Heinrich

3815
04:47:08,500 --> 04:47:09,100
a

3816
04:47:11,560 --> 04:47:19,560
charge let's let Wendy go home it's been a long night thank you very much

3817
04:47:19,560 --> 04:47:20,940
Thanks. Thanks. Good work.

3818
04:47:24,290 --> 04:47:26,670
Five minutes? Sure. Okay.

3819
04:47:34,310 --> 04:47:36,260
Thanks. Sorry. I can't go back to...

3820
04:47:59,230 --> 04:48:01,050
we have, and I'll never review this.

3821
04:48:01,270 --> 04:48:04,810
And then how far down do you think they're running a shut-em-us

3822
04:48:04,810 --> 04:48:05,330
for public?

3823
04:48:05,930 --> 04:48:09,610
Yeah, if you get to a point of having a plan to do something

3824
04:48:09,610 --> 04:48:11,850
like that, we can have those discussions put up.

3825
04:48:12,530 --> 04:48:13,910
What would be left there?

3826
04:48:14,150 --> 04:48:15,890
I don't think it's a lot of discussion.

3827
04:48:16,250 --> 04:48:16,650
Thanks.

3828
04:48:16,810 --> 04:48:17,170
You're fast.

3829
04:48:38,560 --> 04:48:44,920
The road it goes in between various areas of

3830
04:48:44,920 --> 04:48:49,200
States. Yes. So, I mean, can you grow it?

3831
04:48:50,340 --> 04:48:51,220
Oh, yeah.

3832
04:48:51,460 --> 04:48:54,000
It's, you know, one of the things we're using in our life.

3833
04:48:54,660 --> 04:48:55,580
I really, yeah.

3834
04:48:56,000 --> 04:48:56,440
Oh, sure.

3835
04:48:59,980 --> 04:49:01,720
Because I know where you're from, right?

3836
04:49:01,760 --> 04:49:02,100
Yeah.

3837
04:49:02,240 --> 04:49:04,300
And I sent you an email and it came back.

3838
04:49:04,820 --> 04:49:05,160
So, why?

3839
04:49:05,680 --> 04:49:06,800
It's not correct.

3840
04:49:07,460 --> 04:49:08,620
No, I got that.

3841
04:49:09,500 --> 04:49:11,040
Oh, that's really good.

3842
04:49:11,040 --> 04:49:20,460
And then she would come up and say, I mean, can I take a home?

3843
04:49:21,860 --> 04:49:23,340
Can I go home?

3844
04:49:24,440 --> 04:49:24,920
No.

3845
04:49:25,100 --> 04:49:25,580
You're home.

3846
04:49:26,380 --> 04:49:26,860
No.

3847
04:50:55,320 --> 04:50:58,320
And it is on the agenda, it's a legislative update and-

3848
04:50:58,320 --> 04:50:59,520
I've noticed Mark's out of the room.

3849
04:50:59,780 --> 04:51:06,860
And Senator Van Tassel, Senator Kevin Van Tassel came in unexpectedly and spent an hour

3850
04:51:06,860 --> 04:51:07,320
with us.

3851
04:51:07,440 --> 04:51:11,980
He was, I think, supposed to be on a school tour, and spent an hour with us.

3852
04:51:12,100 --> 04:51:15,920
And one of the things that he told us was, he really cares about the peace house.

3853
04:51:16,440 --> 04:51:21,500
It's near and dear to his heart, and they got a $900,000 appropriation.

3854
04:51:21,900 --> 04:51:22,920
$900,000?

3855
04:51:27,870 --> 04:51:28,910
Thanks, Diane.

3856
04:51:43,010 --> 04:51:43,510
Okay.

3857
04:51:47,170 --> 04:51:48,290
Back up, Matt.

3858
04:51:49,310 --> 04:51:49,790
You're up.

3859
04:51:55,260 --> 04:51:57,900
No, because we have to close and go into

3860
04:51:58,440 --> 04:52:01,580
RDA, so unless you want to do the legislative update

3861
04:52:01,580 --> 04:52:02,740
as an RDA.

3862
04:52:10,220 --> 04:52:12,240
Was that our whole legislative update?

3863
04:52:12,760 --> 04:52:16,200
So you're off the hook because he spoke? Okay.

3864
04:52:16,500 --> 04:52:20,740
You can get away with 45 days just by giving us these little sheets of paper.

3865
04:52:20,740 --> 04:52:21,500
that's it

3866
04:52:24,280 --> 04:52:45,120
okay then we need a motion to adjourn all in favor okay we will

3867
04:52:45,120 --> 04:52:50,380
reconvene tonight as the Park City redevelopment agency I feel good about

3868
04:52:50,380 --> 04:52:52,620
All of council is still present.

3869
04:52:54,140 --> 04:52:56,360
There is six of us, soon to be seven.

3870
04:53:00,650 --> 04:53:01,790
It took me a second.

3871
04:53:02,610 --> 04:53:03,810
If we go long enough.

3872
04:53:04,590 --> 04:53:04,870
Okay.

3873
04:53:05,590 --> 04:53:08,290
Is there anybody from the public that would like to speak tonight?

3874
04:53:08,610 --> 04:53:09,910
We will now open the public hearing.

3875
04:53:10,650 --> 04:53:12,570
We will now close the public hearing.

3876
04:53:13,110 --> 04:53:13,970
On a new business,

3877
04:53:14,250 --> 04:53:17,770
a consideration to approve the purchase of 1835 Three Kings Drive.

3878
04:53:18,530 --> 04:53:18,830
Jason.

3879
04:53:19,770 --> 04:53:21,210
I will make this brief.

3880
04:53:21,210 --> 04:53:27,570
I told Rota that I would cover for tonight and that was nice of me and then I forgot that bonanza park or bonanza

3881
04:53:30,090 --> 04:53:35,170
Yeah, right exactly and I play hockey in less in about an hour, so and

3882
04:53:35,170 --> 04:53:39,670
I'm already tired because I and he saw me. I was up early working out this morning, so

3883
04:53:40,510 --> 04:53:45,550
But anyways, I'll make this brief. This is a Silver Star unit that has become available

3884
04:53:45,550 --> 04:53:48,170
What we'd like to do is just go ahead and purchase the property

3885
04:53:49,210 --> 04:53:51,090
at the rate of

3886
04:53:51,210 --> 04:53:58,110
or the price of $270,000 and $70,000 and $5 and update

3887
04:53:58,110 --> 04:53:58,730
the deed restrictions.

3888
04:53:59,210 --> 04:54:01,130
This is a practice we've been going through on various

3889
04:54:01,130 --> 04:54:02,670
properties as they become available.

3890
04:54:03,510 --> 04:54:05,810
These deed restrictions definitely need to be updated.

3891
04:54:06,070 --> 04:54:08,830
They're fairly old and we want to take that opportunity.

3892
04:54:09,250 --> 04:54:12,590
So as a heads up, we will have a couple more of these

3893
04:54:13,050 --> 04:54:14,870
because we do know that there are a couple more properties

3894
04:54:14,870 --> 04:54:17,410
coming available that the owners have notified the city

3895
04:54:17,410 --> 04:54:18,410
that they want to update.

3896
04:54:18,950 --> 04:54:23,030
And these are on, so we'll be coming back with these.

3897
04:54:23,610 --> 04:54:27,390
In addition, staff is working on a program right now to try to get ahead of this,

3898
04:54:27,450 --> 04:54:29,490
where we can actually, while the owner's still there,

3899
04:54:29,690 --> 04:54:33,410
try to buy these to update the restrictions so we don't have to go through this,

3900
04:54:33,410 --> 04:54:36,410
because it is time intensive for staff to go through this every single time.

3901
04:54:36,670 --> 04:54:39,190
So with that, I'll open it up to you guys for any questions.

3902
04:54:39,810 --> 04:54:40,110
Questions?

3903
04:54:41,210 --> 04:54:41,510
Steve.

3904
04:54:42,730 --> 04:54:46,290
I was trying to make sure I understood one thing that said that

3905
04:54:46,290 --> 04:54:53,850
The total transactional cost in everything for this is really going to be a thousand to two thousand bucks

3906
04:54:53,850 --> 04:54:56,390
It's just it's not going to come in

3907
04:54:57,170 --> 04:54:59,810
That's correct title searches all that kind of stuff

3908
04:55:00,390 --> 04:55:03,370
It's just correct. I mean the out of pocket for the city

3909
04:55:03,370 --> 04:55:06,190
I mean with closing costs and everything like that we encourage

3910
04:55:06,190 --> 04:55:11,410
But we will go ahead and turn around and sell this unit for the same that we're buying it for to the next owner

3911
04:55:11,410 --> 04:55:13,630
So there's not that's a

3912
04:55:13,630 --> 04:55:23,270
No net gain or loss there. The loss is on the transactional fees that we incur and is there no desire or need or anything to

3913
04:55:23,270 --> 04:55:26,870
I know when we are buying the 21 units from

3914
04:55:30,730 --> 04:55:35,050
Yeah, that I mean there's there's good with some of the stuff we do there's cleanup

3915
04:55:35,990 --> 04:55:42,330
Is there is there cleanup for this do you have to rehab it or anything or no?

3916
04:55:42,330 --> 04:55:45,350
We're not even going to repaint it or anything, I don't know what to do.

3917
04:55:45,350 --> 04:55:47,970
So there's two parts to my answer here.

3918
04:55:48,050 --> 04:55:51,990
The first is that what we do is we require that an inspection be done and then we go

3919
04:55:51,990 --> 04:55:55,170
back to the owner with that inspection and say here are the things that we found and

3920
04:55:55,170 --> 04:55:55,810
we want to address.

3921
04:55:56,190 --> 04:56:00,810
You have the choice of either you doing it and to the satisfaction of the inspection

3922
04:56:01,810 --> 04:56:05,730
or the city can come in and take care of it but it's going to be deducted off

3923
04:56:05,730 --> 04:56:06,690
of your sales price.

3924
04:56:07,390 --> 04:56:12,230
So this owner chose to do these repairs on their own and so we will go back in

3925
04:56:12,230 --> 04:56:14,690
and repair, obviously, or inspect before we close.

3926
04:56:14,990 --> 04:56:17,930
So it really is a real, just the closing cost

3927
04:56:17,930 --> 04:56:20,070
is the only cost for us doing this?

3928
04:56:20,070 --> 04:56:21,690
Yeah, and we've really worked to close that loop

3929
04:56:21,690 --> 04:56:23,530
because we've gotten, I don't wanna say burned a couple

3930
04:56:23,530 --> 04:56:25,830
of times, but where we've had to invest a couple

3931
04:56:25,830 --> 04:56:27,650
of thousand dollars that we weren't expecting

3932
04:56:28,230 --> 04:56:29,970
to make sure that the unit was ready

3933
04:56:29,970 --> 04:56:31,790
because obviously we don't wanna sell to another

3934
04:56:33,170 --> 04:56:36,330
qualified individual and have repair issues

3935
04:56:36,330 --> 04:56:37,730
that need to be taken care of and put the burden

3936
04:56:37,730 --> 04:56:38,390
on them, so.

3937
04:56:40,250 --> 04:56:40,650
Okay.

3938
04:56:42,570 --> 04:56:47,810
When we get these, could you let us know what the market rate of something comparable to this would be?

3939
04:56:47,910 --> 04:56:51,510
Just I think it's interesting to know and we're going to flip over these seed restrictions and

3940
04:56:52,550 --> 04:56:55,890
They're showing some appreciation just to know what it would

3941
04:56:57,090 --> 04:57:03,330
Normally go for and so that we can show people or talk about how much it's we're keeping it affordable

3942
04:57:03,850 --> 04:57:06,890
Sure, I don't have that figure with me tonight in this one, but we will in the future

3943
04:57:08,830 --> 04:57:10,490
My only question is

3944
04:57:13,130 --> 04:57:16,130
So it's a lot of 3% a year appreciation,

3945
04:57:17,490 --> 04:57:19,390
but you said we're buying it for the same

3946
04:57:19,390 --> 04:57:20,750
that we're going to sell it?

3947
04:57:21,270 --> 04:57:21,870
That's correct.

3948
04:57:22,070 --> 04:57:25,770
So what we do is we calculate the increased value

3949
04:57:25,770 --> 04:57:28,410
that they've earned to get them the maximum sales price

3950
04:57:28,410 --> 04:57:29,950
that they're eligible for.

3951
04:57:30,170 --> 04:57:31,630
At that point, then we turn around

3952
04:57:31,630 --> 04:57:32,870
and sell it for the same price, so.

3953
04:57:33,310 --> 04:57:33,550
Gotcha.

3954
04:57:34,150 --> 04:57:37,090
And just as a reminder, and it was in the staff report,

3955
04:57:37,230 --> 04:57:39,250
but that we'll be coming back in April here

3956
04:57:39,250 --> 04:57:43,970
to round two of the housing plan, and we're going to actually have a discussion on qualified

3957
04:57:43,970 --> 04:57:49,130
buyers and what that means, and look to maybe make sure that we have the definition that

3958
04:57:49,130 --> 04:57:51,370
you get, or the qualifications, the criteria that you guys want.

3959
04:57:51,590 --> 04:57:56,730
So I don't expect that we're going to probably sell this property before that conversation

3960
04:57:56,730 --> 04:57:57,270
happens.

3961
04:57:58,090 --> 04:57:58,190
Great.

3962
04:57:59,450 --> 04:57:59,710
Tim?

3963
04:58:00,270 --> 04:58:04,570
I'm just wondering if Captain Latham is here because he's suspecting some foul

3964
04:58:04,570 --> 04:58:16,850
apply or it's the beard is it okay so I'm gonna open the public hearing anyway

3965
04:58:16,850 --> 04:58:22,630
from the public like to speak I'll close the public hearing comments motions

3966
04:58:22,630 --> 04:58:29,210
further questions I have one quick question which is just if this is

3967
04:58:29,210 --> 04:58:34,850
really gonna cost us a thousand to two thousand bucks is should we just have a

3968
04:58:34,850 --> 04:58:41,730
a plan that says pretty much every time these guys come up that the staff thinks that it's

3969
04:58:41,730 --> 04:58:45,950
a deed restriction that needs to be updated. I mean, for a grand, I just think the answer

3970
04:58:45,950 --> 04:58:51,650
is yes. Or do we want to look at every one of these questions?

3971
04:58:54,460 --> 04:58:58,660
I think that is staff's plan. But because of the transactional component, you do have

3972
04:58:58,660 --> 04:59:01,960
to approve each one. So the answer is yes.

3973
04:59:02,000 --> 04:59:02,400
Never mind.

3974
04:59:02,920 --> 04:59:07,480
I appreciate it. Like I said, the part two of my answer to you is that we are looking for a way to

3975
04:59:08,020 --> 04:59:11,280
avoid having to keep buying the property, update the dedistrictions.

3976
04:59:11,360 --> 04:59:14,960
We're trying to be able to update the dedistrictions while the current owner is still there,

3977
04:59:14,960 --> 04:59:16,520
so we don't have to go through this process.

3978
04:59:19,900 --> 04:59:20,280
Okay.

3979
04:59:21,560 --> 04:59:21,960
Motion?

3980
04:59:24,220 --> 04:59:25,780
Because I need practice.

3981
04:59:26,820 --> 04:59:32,960
Can I just say, Your Honor, I move that we approve new business item number one.

3982
04:59:33,360 --> 04:59:34,080
Yes, you can.

3983
04:59:34,340 --> 04:59:34,540
Second.

3984
04:59:34,540 --> 04:59:35,380
I'm going to say that.

3985
04:59:35,820 --> 04:59:36,200
OK.

3986
04:59:37,620 --> 04:59:38,620
All in favor.

3987
04:59:39,260 --> 04:59:39,380
Aye.

3988
04:59:39,880 --> 04:59:40,380
Any opposed?

3989
04:59:41,300 --> 04:59:41,820
It passes.

3990
04:59:42,520 --> 04:59:43,560
Mr. Mayor, I move we adjourn.

3991
04:59:43,800 --> 04:59:44,220
Second.

3992
04:59:44,940 --> 04:59:45,620
All in favor.

3993
04:59:46,140 --> 04:59:46,480
Aye.

3994
04:59:47,000 --> 04:59:47,380
We're done.

3995
04:59:48,300 --> 04:59:48,920
Good work, guys.

3996
04:59:49,380 --> 04:59:49,520
You did.

3997
04:59:50,160 --> 04:59:51,740
Does anybody want to go out for beers?

3998
04:59:52,060 --> 04:59:52,420
Good.

3999
04:59:53,040 --> 04:59:54,540
I'd screw that up every time.

4000
04:59:54,680 --> 04:59:55,000
I think so.

4001
04:59:58,760 --> 04:59:59,820
Yeah, when was that?

4002
05:00:00,620 --> 05:00:07,780
2016. Well, after you say that for four and a half years every time, and most of our planning

4003
05:00:07,780 --> 05:00:11,440
commission is too lazy to make motions, so I think I need a thousand of them.

4004
05:00:11,680 --> 05:00:15,560
Becca, let us know when we have the time.

4005
05:00:16,000 --> 05:00:16,480
I will.

4006
05:00:17,000 --> 05:00:21,500
Yay! Or you can just spin over there, if you want. Just spin over there.

4007
05:00:21,840 --> 05:00:23,780
See? Yeah, just see if that works.

4008
05:00:23,780 --> 05:00:23,880
Are you embarrassed?

4009
05:00:25,630 --> 05:00:26,480
I'm embarrassed.

4010
05:00:28,020 --> 05:00:28,700
We're not!

4011
05:00:31,360 --> 05:00:32,780
Now we get work in this column.

4012
05:00:43,420 --> 05:00:44,160
Blowing

4013
05:00:48,120 --> 05:00:48,580
rustic.

4014
05:00:58,160 --> 05:00:59,080
Blue thingy.