1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,520 Good morning everyone and welcome to the 2 00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:08,000 July 20th special committee of the whole 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,320 meeting. The city of Parksville 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,320 recognizes the people of the coalish 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,160 nations and their traditional territory 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,600 upon which we gather with gratitude. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,920 Up front we have uh one report on the 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,920 agenda along with a presentation from 9 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,960 consultants KWL uh for the manager of 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,640 utilities an update on the water use 11 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,679 planning and management study phase one. 12 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:37,510 Uh do we have that delegation right now 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:46,950 before we move forward? 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,840 I see them here. So I because we're 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,879 looking for approval to uh go to the 16 00:00:52,879 --> 00:00:54,559 next one since the only thing ne next on 17 00:00:54,559 --> 00:00:57,280 the agenda. So um are you gentlemen 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,239 appearing at the podium here? Welcome. 19 00:01:00,239 --> 00:01:01,920 Come on down sir. Yeah nice to see you 20 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:17,749 again. 21 00:01:17,759 --> 00:01:18,240 green. 22 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,520 >> You are now if you could introduce 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,360 yourself, gentlemen, and uh we'll get 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,880 with ready. Looking forward to your 25 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,720 presentation today. Thank you. 26 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,360 >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm Steve Bridger 27 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,840 with the with Kerwood Lidell Consulting. 28 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,479 Uh and I am the project manager for the 29 00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:34,079 uh water use planning and management 30 00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:36,479 study. 31 00:01:36,479 --> 00:01:38,000 And uh yeah, I'm Craig Southerntherland 32 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,680 with Kerwood Lidle uh Associates and I'm 33 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,799 senior hydraologist and and uh technical 34 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:47,119 engineer on the supply side for the for 35 00:01:47,119 --> 00:01:47,840 the study. 36 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,640 >> Great. Welcome. 37 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,560 >> Thank you. 38 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,479 Yeah, we have a a brief 39 00:01:54,479 --> 00:01:56,399 presentation to start and then 40 00:01:56,399 --> 00:01:58,240 understand that there's a number of uh 41 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,600 questions uh to go through uh for the 42 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,040 remainder of the meeting. 43 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,560 Yes, 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,720 if we could hold our questions uh until 45 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,479 after the presentation, council, and 46 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:12,400 then we'll get into it a little more 47 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,440 detail then. Thank you. 48 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,599 >> Sounds great. 49 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:21,440 >> Um okay, so here's the cover cover slide 50 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,239 for the uh study and maybe we can jump 51 00:02:24,239 --> 00:02:27,440 to uh slide number one, please. 52 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,000 Uh so just to do a an overview of the 53 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,400 goals of the project as per the um 54 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,519 request for proposal as as it was stated 55 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:40,800 initially uh was to review and complete 56 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,519 a comprehensive assessment of the city's 57 00:02:43,519 --> 00:02:45,519 the city and the Englishman River water 58 00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:50,319 supply uh source audible w audible water 59 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:54,160 sources as well as um the demand and 60 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,720 future demand for the city along with uh 61 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,280 the noose area 62 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,360 um which the system all feeds. Um so 63 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,840 essentially um there was a capacity 64 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,599 analysis to determine what the how we're 65 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:11,040 going to how we can meet the future 66 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,720 demands and a review of uh this existing 67 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,280 storage including surface water sources 68 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,319 and groundwater sources to see what is 69 00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:22,239 needed to service the system over a 70 00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:25,680 50-year time frame 71 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,000 including the obviously the current 72 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,519 conditions. 73 00:03:29,519 --> 00:03:32,400 Um, additionally, the report was uh to 74 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,959 focus on existing water conservation 75 00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:37,200 measures and what measures can be 76 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,319 further implemented to uh assist with 77 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:44,000 reducing water demand in the future as 78 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,760 well as take a brief look at the 79 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,159 hydropower generation options if there 80 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:50,959 was to be a new uh surface water source 81 00:03:50,959 --> 00:03:53,280 implemented. So, that's that's 82 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,120 summarized in our report which I believe 83 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,280 was circulated uh about a month ago. 84 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,080 Um and just to touch on the key water 85 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,080 supply reliability 86 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,400 um focus for the system. Um everything 87 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,879 was studied under um the need to meet 88 00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:18,320 sort of um um I guess best practices for 89 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,199 water supply reliability. 90 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:22,880 uh and taking a detailed look at what 91 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,520 the current system water reliability is 92 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,960 and and the system effectively or today 93 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,120 the Aerosmith reservoir is the primary 94 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,919 source with an effective volume of uh 9 95 00:04:33,919 --> 00:04:37,360 million cubic meters and approximately 2 96 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,360 million cubic meters in sort of 97 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,479 emergency storage. 98 00:04:42,479 --> 00:04:48,720 Um there's also further um sort of restraint on the 99 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,680 system in needing to provide up to 100 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,919 approximately 1 cubic meters a second as 101 00:04:53,919 --> 00:04:56,479 an environmental flow in the Englishman 102 00:04:56,479 --> 00:04:58,800 River which has been uh in place for a 103 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,360 while. I think it's closer to 1.6 104 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,320 typically but and that does vary 105 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,280 depending on the uh the sort of absolute 106 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:09,840 minimum that can be provided. 107 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:14,479 Um and the study was done primarily 108 00:05:14,479 --> 00:05:18,320 looking at uh not enacting water level 4 109 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,000 water conservation measures because we 110 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,960 want to look at uh more typical water 111 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,360 supply system where you don't want to be 112 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,199 having to implement water water 113 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:29,039 restrictions to that level on a regular 114 00:05:29,039 --> 00:05:31,039 basis which obviously is a is a 115 00:05:31,039 --> 00:05:34,240 significant goal. 116 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,400 Um, 117 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,919 >> so from there I may hand it over to 118 00:05:37,919 --> 00:05:39,759 Craig who's going to go through some 119 00:05:39,759 --> 00:05:42,320 more detail on the immediate analysis 120 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,039 within the study. 121 00:05:45,039 --> 00:05:47,840 >> Thanks. Thanks. 122 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:49,759 >> Thank you, Steve. And, uh, yeah, thank 123 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:52,960 you, mayor and council for having us. Um 124 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,400 so I know um 125 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,600 there were some questions um about the 126 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,479 storage evaluation and we just wanted to 127 00:06:02,479 --> 00:06:06,479 go through both how were the um new 128 00:06:06,479 --> 00:06:08,800 sources screened, what did we sort of 129 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,319 use as the original sort of screening 130 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:11,919 criteria and then how were they 131 00:06:11,919 --> 00:06:15,840 evaluated. Um so the in terms of 132 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,960 screening we focused on storage 133 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,680 opportunities within the the Englishman 134 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,840 River wershed and the local aquifers. Uh 135 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:27,600 so we weren't sort of looking out beyond 136 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,440 in terms of like re like looking at it 137 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:30,800 sort of regionally. It was really 138 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,880 focused on what's available for for the 139 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,600 city and for the news. um and with a 140 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,600 focus on the Englishman River wershed. 141 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,759 Um we had um and that was sort of 142 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:48,479 through through um conversations with staff. Um we the the reliability 143 00:06:48,479 --> 00:06:51,759 target uh was established at 29 out of 144 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:54,720 30 years or or 90% reliable and that was 145 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,840 based on a review of some of the 146 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,080 guidelines that are available and what 147 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,080 other communities are doing um around 148 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,280 the region and and again that was um 149 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:07,680 based on some discussions that we had um 150 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,520 at workshops with with staff. And then 151 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,720 finally um was it technically feasible 152 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,360 um looking at topography like gravity 153 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,240 versus pumping storage um and and just 154 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,720 sort of other technical uh technical 155 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,560 criteria. That was sort of the initial 156 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:30,880 screening evaluation. And then we did a multiple a preliminary multiple 157 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:36,800 accounts evaluation looking at um or the the storage options that were 158 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,720 selected. 159 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,759 Looking at um capital costs, uh the um 160 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:45,759 construction feasibility, 161 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:48,080 technical feasibility, um regulatory 162 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,720 risks, environmental benefits costs. um 163 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,720 but at a sort of semi-quantitative 164 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,039 level. So sort of assigning like okay 165 00:07:55,039 --> 00:07:57,599 high to low. It wasn't it wasn't a sort 166 00:07:57,599 --> 00:08:00,160 of a a detailed evaluation but it was to 167 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,680 be able to provide a way of being able 168 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,000 to rank the different options. Um and 169 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,280 we um so I think maybe Steve can slide 170 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,720 over to the next slide there. 171 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,199 Um yeah. So based on that um we 172 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:21,280 identified uh um 173 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:27,759 four wersheds within the um subwaterheds 174 00:08:27,759 --> 00:08:30,479 within the Englishman River wershed and 175 00:08:30,479 --> 00:08:34,080 five potential storage locations um that 176 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,240 are all sort of headwater storage 177 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,760 similar to the way that Aerosmith works. 178 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,159 Um and 179 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:45,519 a lot most of these had been identified 180 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:48,080 previously in previous studies in terms 181 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,279 of um from the like the past regional 182 00:08:51,279 --> 00:08:53,519 studies and main the main reason for 183 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:55,839 that is they're they're the kind of 184 00:08:55,839 --> 00:08:58,560 locations where there's either an 185 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:01,519 existing lake or there's an area where 186 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:04,320 the topography works that for every 187 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:05,839 incremental height of a dam that you 188 00:09:05,839 --> 00:09:07,200 need to construct you get quite a bit of 189 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,720 storage. So that was sort of the main 190 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,880 focus is to try and find those those 191 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,360 locations um to come up with sort of the 192 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,480 best um unit cost per cubic meter of 193 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,880 storage. And um and those 194 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,720 similar to the past studies kind of came 195 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,800 up with the same locations. Um and so 196 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,640 those were sort of the main primary 197 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,399 ones. In addition, we did we did look at 198 00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:37,519 the option to raise Aerosmith and we did 199 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:43,040 look at side side storage um side um 200 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,680 off channel riverside storage options 201 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,839 and and I'll go through that in in a 202 00:09:47,839 --> 00:09:50,560 minute or two here. Um but the 203 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:56,240 essentially these of these five options 204 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,480 um four of them the costs are all like 205 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,560 they're in the same ballpark especially 206 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,160 given the way that these cost estimates 207 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,160 were developed. They're preliminary at 208 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,519 this point and it's really order of 209 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:09,440 magnitude just to give us a sort of an 210 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,920 order of magnitude sense and so we've 211 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,160 except for Morardi Creek which is 212 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,320 significantly more 213 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,680 um and so the outcome of that was to 214 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:26,880 focus on those four options as part of 215 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,120 future evaluation. 216 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,360 One thing to keep in mind is when we 217 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,040 were doing the evaluation, we looked at 218 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,880 each storage site individually. We said, 219 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,760 can this site alone provide and meet the 220 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,560 reliability target? We didn't get into 221 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:46,320 the looking at can we combine them? Can 222 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,120 we phase it? We we didn't get into that 223 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,920 level of detail and in phase one. Um so 224 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,440 there's there may be some opportunities 225 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,600 for that moving forward. Um so yeah the 226 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,000 next slide. Um so the other source of 227 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,120 supply for Parksville is uh is 228 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,279 groundwater um in aquifer 216 229 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:12,640 and there's our groundwater 230 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,399 hydraologist. I'm a surface water 231 00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:16,480 hydraologist so I can speak at a high 232 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,200 level around some of this but um our 233 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,800 groundwater hydraologist identified that 234 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,480 there is maybe some some potential for 235 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,839 additional um withdrawal from from the 236 00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:31,519 aquifer. uh the acryer t like appears 237 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:33,360 right now to be able to recover based on 238 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,040 its current um uh withdrawal rates and 239 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,040 so there might be some potential there 240 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,240 to provide some additional um flow from 241 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,399 the aquifer to help support the demand 242 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:46,959 in the community to help reduce the the 243 00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:50,480 demand on the river. Um there were also 244 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,360 two other aquifers that are located 245 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,079 about 8 to 10 km um south of the city 246 00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:02,240 that could also potentially be a new 247 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,480 source of groundwater. Um but there's 248 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,320 very there isn't a lot of information on 249 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,920 those and so there would need to be 250 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,440 further study done to to confirm that. 251 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,470 Um 252 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,480 so in terms of the off channel storage 253 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,680 um so we looked at two. So the the first 254 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,440 that we looked at was an applesto apples 255 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:26,959 comparison 256 00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:30,639 with the um the other storage sites. So 257 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:33,760 the other storage locations there was 258 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,560 storage required both for um the 259 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,920 community withdrawal as well as meeting 260 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:45,600 the the environmental flow need. Um and bringing those both up to the 90 261 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,079 97%. Um and so just to look at it sort 262 00:12:50,079 --> 00:12:52,560 of in terms of the the equal cost um 263 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:57,120 there's it requires um a res a reservoir 264 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,959 between 100 or 80 to 160 hectares 265 00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:05,279 depending on the um the geometry of the 266 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,920 pond. So, how essentially how deep can 267 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,920 it can it physically be? And um the 268 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,560 intent would be to either divert water 269 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,200 into it or pump water into it through 270 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,120 the winter and then use that water in 271 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,639 the summer. And the rate that that would 272 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:25,279 need to be to fill that is about um 22 273 00:13:25,279 --> 00:13:27,920 million liters per day. And for 274 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,000 comparison, the current pump station is 275 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,959 um uh 276 00:13:34,959 --> 00:13:38,880 >> 16. Yeah, 16 or 19. Like the the the 277 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,839 pump station's 19. Um and uh so just in 278 00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:46,720 terms of a comparison. Um and and so 279 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,440 that would be running um at that rate 280 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,120 for 6 months um to to fill it. And the 281 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,360 construction estimate was about 72 282 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,240 million. Um so it's about $15 um per 283 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,480 cubic meter and whereas the other 284 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,160 surface water stoages were sort of 285 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,760 between like a dollar 70 to $5 a cubic 286 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,760 meter depending on the site. So just in 287 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,720 terms of a comparison um just to give 288 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,880 you sort of a sense um let me just 289 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:18,160 double check. I've got the uh um 290 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:27,910 the sizes here. Um 291 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,760 so 292 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,839 the um 4.8 million cubic meters. If you 293 00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:39,600 think about the size of um of Wrath 294 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,760 Driver Park, um the whole park, it's 295 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,240 about four meters of water over that 296 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,920 area, just to kind of give you a sense 297 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,000 of scale. Um and and so so it's a bit 298 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,480 it's a big area. Um and and so that's 299 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,560 kind of that's one of the reasons. Um so 300 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,880 if we go to the next the next slide. 301 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,720 So another option um would be so what is 302 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,040 the demand that the communities will 303 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,360 need through the summer um by the 2080s 304 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,240 um and this was assuming the current 305 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,040 withdrawal rates from the groundwater um 306 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,920 and it's about 2.9 u million cubic 307 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,639 meters for and that's from June to 308 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:25,440 October which is sort of typically the 309 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,440 operating period for the dam and so that 310 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,600 would essentially mean not withdrawing 311 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,920 any water from the river over that 312 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,160 period. And for that case again it's 313 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,360 about 50 hectares to 100 hectares again 314 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,040 depending on the depth that you can get 315 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,639 to. And um it's closer to about it's 316 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:47,920 just a little bit less than the current 317 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,440 in terms of pumping rate. It's a little 318 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,959 bit less than the current pump station 319 00:15:50,959 --> 00:15:54,560 for 6 months. Um they estimate again 320 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,600 high level estimate is about 44 million 321 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,199 approximately. 322 00:15:59,199 --> 00:16:01,680 um and uh and then compar comparison to 323 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,639 the other ones. So based on that was we 324 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:09,120 sort of um concluded that just for cost 325 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,920 reasons as well as for land reasons um 326 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,720 in terms of both the cost of land the 327 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,480 value of land as well as land use 328 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,279 considerations um that that it just it 329 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:21,519 wasn't economically feasible to sort of 330 00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:26,320 pursue those options. Um so that was the reason kind of in going 331 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,160 through the report. We could have 332 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,600 expanded on that a little bit more in 333 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,000 the report. Um so apologies for that. Um 334 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,240 but this provides a bit of background on 335 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,120 yeah on on the on the reasoning for it. 336 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,839 So um 337 00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:44,800 so kind of continuing on um we also uh 338 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,360 in terms of increasing storage at at 339 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,279 Aerosmith 340 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:53,279 uh it would be so there's two parts of 341 00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:58,160 this. One is the in the long term um 342 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,639 relying solely on Aerosmith because of 343 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:05,760 the limited watershed area um isn't going to be able to meet that 344 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,360 reliability target just because of the 345 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:10,079 limited inflow to the reservoir um 346 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:14,240 through the even through the through the winter um 347 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,360 it is a it is small it's it's like one 348 00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:20,319 and a half% of the whole wershed area 349 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:25,760 and so however Um there there could be 350 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,400 an opportunity in terms of phasing to to 351 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,600 raise the dam as a first step, but and 352 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,480 then that would help sort of provide 353 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,200 some improvement in the reliability. 354 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,440 Um and then move on to a a a more a 355 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,760 larger uh raising a larger increase in 356 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,880 the storage based on on a more detailed 357 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,559 evaluation of a sort of a phasing 358 00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:52,240 option. 359 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,320 the what this would mean is be raising 360 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,320 the dam by about three meters. Um and um 361 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,880 again it wasn't considered more in phase 362 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,400 one on its own because it just wouldn't 363 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,840 meet the reliability target in the 364 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,320 future. Um but as I say in the slide it 365 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,000 could be considered as part of a phasing 366 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,039 in the future potentially. 367 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:16,640 Uh and the yeah the the cost for this is 368 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,559 sort of in the probably the 5 to 10 369 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:23,919 million kind of range. Um or um just 370 00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:26,559 without sort of 371 00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:28,080 because there would likely need to be 372 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,160 sort of some additional upgrades to the 373 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,799 dam besides just raising the crest of it 374 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:34,720 um from a stability standpoint and 375 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,919 seismic standpoint. Um so that was uh 376 00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:48,320 so on the next slide please. Um yeah and so this is just some other 377 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,679 background information um for this study 378 00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:55,600 and we can refer to these um in through 379 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,600 the rest of the meeting if we need to. 380 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,000 Um there's some extra slides here just 381 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,240 that we can go to if we need to to to 382 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,720 refer to anything. Um, 383 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,720 oh yeah. Um, yeah, classic. Again, the 384 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,840 gray doesn't show up. Um, so, so this 385 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,000 is, yeah, [laughter] 386 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,600 so on the side it does, it doesn't show 387 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,000 up on the front. Um, so this is a 388 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,600 similar side. This is the same slide 389 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,600 that we showed previously and it 390 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,080 essentially shows like the contributions 391 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,000 of the different components in the um of 392 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000 flow in the Englishman River. The gray 393 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,520 is the natural base flow. That's just 394 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:34,960 how much is naturally coming off the 395 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,120 watershed. The um the blue is what the 396 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,720 withdrawal is at the plant. Um the the 397 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,600 green is is how much the the dam um is 398 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,760 releasing to support the environmental 399 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,640 flow needs and and the orange um which 400 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,880 is tiny little silver um is are the 401 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,240 other licenses. Um, and 402 00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:59,760 so this just kind of go gives you a 403 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,039 sense of the range of the of of flows 404 00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:04,559 that are in the river and and really 405 00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:06,240 does show like there are opportunities 406 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:13,520 for for being able to um like there's a lot of water in the winter um 407 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,559 further down in the wershed. Um but it's 408 00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:17,919 the challenge is trying to capture that 409 00:20:17,919 --> 00:20:19,120 water further up in the waterershed 410 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:20,559 where there are the opportunities to 411 00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:25,909 provide the storage. Um, 412 00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:29,039 and this slide is showing uh just a 413 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:30,480 little bit more of a detail through the 414 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,440 summer operating period breaking down uh 415 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,039 it's essentially taking those four 416 00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:36,159 months through the summer and just 417 00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:38,240 providing a little bit more detail. So 418 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,320 you can really see that the the green 419 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,039 part of the pie is the environmental 420 00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:45,600 flow need and that's 421 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,240 um how much the dam releases from the 422 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,000 dam or supporting the environmental flow 423 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,440 need in the river. So a large part of 424 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,799 the water in the in the dam is is um 425 00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:57,039 supporting the environmental flow need 426 00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:01,520 with the blue part of the pie being how much is being withdrawn by the 427 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,549 community during the operating season. 428 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:08,799 Um yeah, and then this final slide is is 429 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:13,120 showing the uh um the reliability 430 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:18,240 amounts for the current um system and sort of moving out into the future 431 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,960 with the reliability sort of decreasing 432 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,880 over time um with climate change um and 433 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,120 with increasing demand in the community 434 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:32,559 from sort of it's it's essentially about 435 00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:34,799 half in terms of the reliability number 436 00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:40,710 by the time you reach the the 2080s. 437 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:50,310 And um yeah, and that's 438 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:51,520 you did 439 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,440 >> and thank you. Thank thanks very much 440 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,200 gentlemen for your presentation and I 441 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,960 understand that I want to um qualify 442 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,520 that the last three years has been an 443 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,159 incredible learning curve for all of us 444 00:22:06,159 --> 00:22:08,880 here at the table recognizing from our 445 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,760 participation on in the AWS boards as 446 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,039 well as the AWS boards understanding 447 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,000 what our water where it comes from and 448 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,240 where it goes to and what the province 449 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,400 is telling us what we must provide for 450 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,240 habitat and so forth. 451 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,200 Under these learnings that we have, we 452 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,600 recognize that Aerosmith Dam is pretty 453 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,679 well reserved. So we can maintain the 454 00:22:31,679 --> 00:22:34,080 flow rate is actually reserved for 455 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,000 habitat and which is great from an 456 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,520 environmental point of view but for a 457 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,760 point of view from who paid for that dam 458 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,840 and so forth it's not so great because 459 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,159 it was a water users in the in the 460 00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:50,480 system uh including Parksville and the 461 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,559 news with our our participating 462 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:55,520 collaboration with them. So, that was 463 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,280 one big learning curve that kind of 464 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,120 what's with all that water in there, why 465 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:02,799 don't we just release that? Why are we 466 00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:05,679 going into um water conservation extreme 467 00:23:05,679 --> 00:23:08,320 stage 4 now? And it's been a hard 468 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,320 message for the public to understand. 469 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,039 It's a hard message for me to understand 470 00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:16,240 quite honestly. So um we we are 471 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,039 considering uh constantly looking at 472 00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:21,360 maybe there's a more equitable way of 473 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,799 who's paying for the operation and uh uh 474 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:26,880 upgrades to the dam which is needed 475 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,400 including seismic and everything else. 476 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,880 we check on a regular basis and maybe we 477 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,559 have some participation from other 478 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:34,640 players such as a province which we will 479 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,280 look at at but recognizing that any of 480 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,120 your suggestions for storage that says 481 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,520 Aerrol Smith Dam I say no no no because 482 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,280 whatever we put into it type of thing 483 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,280 we're not going to get out of it but you 484 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,360 know the habitat is going to be very 485 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,919 wellmaintained which is great but at the 486 00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:51,760 same time I think that that's for others 487 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,000 to do we are our end goal as you 488 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,240 mentioned anyways from the very I think 489 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,840 Steve mentioned it that Um, conservation 490 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,919 is not what we're trying to do here. 491 00:24:01,919 --> 00:24:03,120 We're trying to get away from 492 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,280 conservation by creating satisfactory 493 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,440 storage water that's going to meet our 494 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,440 needs for today's growth as well as 495 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,240 future growth. And that is the end goal. 496 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,760 And so, so we're looking forward to um 497 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,919 moving forward on with phase two. Uh, 498 00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:19,600 and that's what we're here for today to 499 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,200 kind of decide where we're going to go 500 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,880 from here on in. And my my understanding 501 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,960 is is very um clear now as to what's 502 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:35,039 that u storage is and and as far as the other lakes go. Uh the other lakes 503 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:37,120 if we were to go for the Highland Lakes 504 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,799 the Mararti and all the rest of it if we 505 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:40,720 were go them they're still using the 506 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,400 Englishman River as a transportation 507 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,200 main uh as the the delivery system. And 508 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,880 once again, I feel that anything that 509 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,559 comes out of those, once again, the 510 00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:54,159 province is going to say, "Well, we want even more of that." And I'm 511 00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:56,000 afraid that getting a water license to 512 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,159 get out of those other lakes is going to 513 00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:00,880 be the same situation we ran into a so 514 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,200 I'm reluctant to go that gentlemen. I'm 515 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,760 still at at at the point in my mind 516 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,679 after everything I've heard that the 517 00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:10,720 best thing that we can do is capture 518 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,640 that that winter u excess water that uh 519 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,960 falls of rain and precipitation in the 520 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,720 winter and capture that and store it 521 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,200 somehow. You've mentioned some really 522 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,039 good ideas. Give us an idea what kind of 523 00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,520 looks like other than expropriating Rath 524 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,039 Trevor Park and putting the reservoir 525 00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:28,799 there, you know, because 526 00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:31,840 >> there we go. We know that size works. uh 527 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,840 turned it into an aqua park instead of a 528 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,600 camping park maybe. Um but uh it gives 529 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,400 me the idea of the size. Um my my 530 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,720 question would be um with after having 531 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,360 talks with Mosaic and so forth, mosaic 532 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:48,880 lands would be more satisfactory 533 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,400 um to use as side storage mosaic lands 534 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,240 adjacent to the indisman river which is 535 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,080 going to provide the sidream storage 536 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,039 flow if possible. the mosaic lands being 537 00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:01,520 relatively close to us, you know, like 538 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,840 as close to us as possible would be the plan because it's all about 539 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,640 cost, but they have a lot of land like 540 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,720 as you say the size of Brass Harbor. Uh 541 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,440 recently, um the RDN just purchased 542 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,080 Hamilton Marsh. Um how many hectares was 543 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,880 that the council? Do you remember? 544 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,559 >> It was a lot. Yeah. for about $30 545 00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:23,120 million. They purchased it. But um part 546 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,360 of the reason for that uh cost was 547 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,840 because it's uh the land the logging 548 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,640 value of it, the the tree value. And so 549 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,559 but there's a lot of areas that Mosaic 550 00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:35,360 have already logged way closer to us to 551 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:37,279 our city Lemonson, you know, actually 552 00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:39,600 right where their uh offices are and so 553 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,400 forth that may be more palatable to 554 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,480 putting in storage reservoirs where they 555 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,640 could take advantage of the side stream. 556 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,840 So what I would like my preference at 557 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,559 this point is to evaluate silicide 558 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,960 stream storage options and maybe not in just one reservoir but using it would 559 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,880 have to be mosaic lands as the first 560 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,559 suggestion uh adjacent to us and and is 561 00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:04,880 one reservoir in or or do we use 562 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,200 multiples? Do we use you know 1 2 3 4 563 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,919 you know with the overflow going to uh 564 00:27:09,919 --> 00:27:12,159 it gets the cost down apparently by 565 00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:14,000 instead of making one huge one the size 566 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,799 of raster park. Um but at the same time 567 00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:20,640 it it it and gives um better um failure 568 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,200 against um uh 569 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,200 preventing failure of one of one of the 570 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,880 reservoirs I think you have the backups 571 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,440 as well. I would like that to be 572 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,120 explored anyway. So what that would look 573 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,520 like, what that and how adjacent to it. 574 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,039 And once again, um that as well as the 575 00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:39,279 other option of 576 00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:42,720 what would it take to uh purchase land 577 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,960 within uh the industrial park that we 578 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,480 already looked at. So we already own 579 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,760 some land in there. There's other pieces 580 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,120 of land. They're up for sale type of 581 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,039 thing. Is there an advantage to that? 582 00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:53,679 And what is it? if we actually uh deepen 583 00:27:53,679 --> 00:27:55,840 the excavation in that area type of 584 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,000 thing. If we have to buy a few bundles 585 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,440 of property, you know, five and 10 586 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:00,720 million dollars each, you know, that 587 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,399 that's a lot better than getting it from 588 00:28:02,399 --> 00:28:05,120 the highlands up on top. That is my hope 589 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,679 that we could have in the this next 590 00:28:07,679 --> 00:28:11,039 phase is considering those two as well 591 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,200 as um checking out the possibilities of 592 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,039 um um subsurface wealth so far. I know 593 00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:20,640 um Greg you mentioned anyways that 594 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,320 you're a surface water hydraologist and 595 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,039 I appreciate that. Um but just consider 596 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:27,200 those other acryers that you they may 597 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,080 provide some some additional uh flow at 598 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,000 the same time which could either be put 599 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,679 uh piped to the ERWS or you know into a 600 00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:38,240 storage system as well. So that was my 601 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,279 two thoughts that I hope that you could 602 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:43,679 do and and I understand everything that 603 00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:45,919 you've done in the first phase was all 604 00:28:45,919 --> 00:28:48,080 about the data. you've done an amazing 605 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,360 job on that. 606 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,200 given all the data what we have and 607 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,520 where it comes from and actually you 608 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,240 know express that very well but we also 609 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,559 know that we will need more storage 610 00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:00,799 water and the reason I keep on saying I 611 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:02,880 want storage water from the sides 612 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,440 streaming storage is because 613 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,559 unlike the wells this doesn't affect 614 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:10,960 other areas 615 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,200 around us their acryer if we're just 616 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,960 taking the winter rains and so forth 617 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,039 we're not affecting the acryers if we if 618 00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:19,279 we overuse or drill more wells type of 619 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,840 thing. Our drilling of those wells could 620 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,440 actually impact our neighbors and that 621 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,559 is not a good neighbor policy in my 622 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:29,200 mind. And so I think that the sid stream 623 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,880 has all the benefits. The water's there. 624 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,720 We just have to learn how to capture. 625 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,159 So, I also sub subscribe to Water Canada 626 00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:40,960 the magazine because I'm kind of a water 627 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,559 a nerd and so um uh w with that in mind 628 00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:46,480 I know that there's very options across 629 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,919 Canada and so forth that have been 630 00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:50,559 implemented uh other ways of capturing 631 00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:54,000 water or stored or reservoir water if 632 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000 that those other options you know maybe 633 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,840 borrow some ideas from everyone else 634 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,279 that would be good if we could look at 635 00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:00,240 that same time. 636 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,960 >> Yeah. Anyhow, that's just my comments. I 637 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,640 going to let let it open the floor. That 638 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,880 that's so so that kind of sums up where 639 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,200 I would hope phase two goes. Um, 640 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,559 everything else that you're suggesting, 641 00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:13,200 I say just stop until we get that done 642 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,880 first. Uh, and no pressure, guys, but we 643 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,600 don't have a long time left on our term. 644 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,399 >> No pressure. Uh, but at the same time, 645 00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:24,399 um, I'm just your comments on that. Is 646 00:30:24,399 --> 00:30:26,880 that something that is doable or or or 647 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,480 is there any more clarification you 648 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,080 need? what I I was hoping to get or 649 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,240 >> um no I think that it's clear I think 650 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,720 yeah so it definitely in terms of 651 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,120 looking at it as a phased approach or 652 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,240 options um is is something to to look 653 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:42,720 into 654 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,720 >> and and that's exactly you you came up 655 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,880 with the term musling as a phased 656 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,360 approach first phase is create this one 657 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,200 the second phase we create the next one 658 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,520 which will give us that um that 659 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,279 sufficient storage but it's going to be 660 00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:56,960 done over phase period type of thing 661 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,799 because um that's the best way to do it 662 00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:01,200 anyways is that um with any any major 663 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,080 project like this. 664 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:02,559 >> Yeah. 665 00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:05,360 >> So, yeah, I appreciate that that intent. 666 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,159 Yeah. Thank you. Um 667 00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:10,640 council, 668 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,360 >> first up, uh Council Gren, you reaching 669 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,679 for your mic? You want to go? I don't 670 00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:17,520 know. I'm just guessing. Unless you want 671 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:18,799 to call a coffee break. 672 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:20,399 >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I've had too much 673 00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:22,880 coffee. 674 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,200 >> Sure. I'll go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Uh 675 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,600 thank you, Mr. Mayor. and through you to 676 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,000 our delegation. Thank you very much for 677 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,200 all the work and thanks for coming back 678 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,120 today for this uh committee the whole. I 679 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,640 hope that there's an opportunity for a 680 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,039 bit more of a kind of free conversation 681 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:39,919 in this format. So feel free to treat it 682 00:31:39,919 --> 00:31:41,679 that way. I think if um if you have 683 00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:43,840 anything you want to jump in on or add 684 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,120 to the the conversation. Um so yeah, 685 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,720 thank you very comprehensive report and 686 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,399 I appreciate the update uh on this. Um, 687 00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:55,840 in terms of I guess maybe I have a lot 688 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,919 of questions around everything, but 689 00:31:57,919 --> 00:31:59,840 maybe I'll just start with kind of the 690 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,799 overarching um question, which is kind 691 00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:04,960 of the goal of this meeting is what 692 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,240 would you see as being um 693 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,279 the the best way to structure a second 694 00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:13,840 phase of this process to get the best 695 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,919 value out of that uh process? uh the 696 00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:20,799 first phase seems to me to and I think 697 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:22,399 this is what you're speaking about look 698 00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:26,320 at uh what's a single source that we can 699 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,519 use to make up for the the demand and 700 00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:30,960 the the reliability that we're 701 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,200 targeting. Um but there's also 702 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,279 conversation about maybe multiple 703 00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:38,480 approaches uh to to hit that reliability 704 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,039 instead of a single. So with that 705 00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:43,440 context, what would you say would you 706 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,360 would recommend having now done the 707 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,279 first phase for us to get the best value 708 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:53,909 of the second phase? 709 00:32:53,919 --> 00:32:56,159 » Thanks again. That's it's good to be 710 00:32:56,159 --> 00:33:01,039 here. Um uh so there's two parts of that 711 00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:03,600 um that sort of in in sort of 712 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,799 conversations internally and 713 00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,600 conversations with staff. Um the first 714 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,919 is the technical side. So the first is 715 00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:12,240 looking at okay what are are kind of 716 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,799 come up with sort of do the assessment 717 00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:16,559 again in terms of come up with a long 718 00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:18,880 list of potential combinations of those 719 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,039 options and and and and potentially some 720 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:26,559 others um and look at what are some 721 00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:28,480 options to move forward on a phased 722 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,720 approach. So that's part of it and then 723 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,760 the other part is to start an an 724 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,919 engagement process 725 00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:40,960 with um other interested parties um 726 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,559 around 727 00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:44,799 the discussion around okay there is the 728 00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,440 cost but there are other there are other 729 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,840 values to be measured or to understand 730 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,640 in terms of the location. What are some 731 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,519 potentially environmental impacts? um 732 00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:58,559 just to be able to work um 733 00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:00,159 collaboratively 734 00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:01,919 in coming up with that selection. Yes, 735 00:34:01,919 --> 00:34:04,000 there's the technical side. There's sort 736 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,440 of in terms of technical feasibility, 737 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,760 but there are the other um there are the 738 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,240 other components that would also need to 739 00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:13,200 be considered as part of that process. 740 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,480 And having um the other interested 741 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,079 parties involved in those conversations 742 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:20,079 would be important at this stage because 743 00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,560 there may be some that are just they may 744 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:23,839 be a technical solution, but maybe 745 00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:26,000 there's an a non-starter because of 746 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,119 other other situations. So, that could 747 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:31,520 just drop off the table right away. 748 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,520 Maybe teasing into the values question 749 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,560 there is uh one of the uh maybe one of 750 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,720 the overarching values is to what extent 751 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:43,440 do we need to provide uh water for 752 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,399 outdoor use? Um and at what point in the 753 00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:51,040 decades moving forward 754 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,839 do we hit a point where the the uh 755 00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:56,399 indoor use is actually now kind of at 756 00:34:56,399 --> 00:34:59,200 risk. Um my understanding from the 757 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,359 report is that there's no current 758 00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:03,760 concern around indoor and firefighting 759 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,839 and sort of those normal uses. It's just 760 00:35:05,839 --> 00:35:08,800 in the peak times when you have 72% of 761 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,320 the the water being used for outdoor uh 762 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,920 that's where we run into the issue. But 763 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,599 there is a value about and this is I 764 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:17,680 think shifting culturally as well is you 765 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,079 know do we water our lawns? Um, 766 00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:23,200 obviously we still want to water um, you 767 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,640 know, gardens and all that sort of 768 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,599 thing, but the lawns themselves um, is 769 00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:29,359 something that I think culturally is 770 00:35:29,359 --> 00:35:30,720 changing that people aren't having the 771 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,119 same expectations around having a like a 772 00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:34,800 golf course style lawn in front of your 773 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,160 house. Um, so maybe there's a question 774 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,240 in there which is at what point do we 775 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:44,320 kind of hit a point where we're now 776 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,560 uh risking not having enough indoor use 777 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,240 water? And uh and then I I know you 778 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:51,680 can't probably answer the value question 779 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,680 about how much we should be putting 780 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,320 towards lawns, but yeah. 781 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,640 Um yeah so on the first part of the 782 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,680 question um in terms of when that's not 783 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,839 something sort of specifically that 784 00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:07,920 looked at but um generally 785 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,200 the and now this is the total demand. Um 786 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,920 so generally about 2third of the total 787 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,000 annual demand is used through the 788 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,000 summertime. So if you can kind of reduce 789 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,160 that down that's like that is fairly 790 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,119 significant component of of the water um 791 00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:25,680 that total volume and and that was 792 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,280 discussed and addressed to some extent 793 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:28,960 in the report with regards to 794 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,560 conservation measures um and and uh 795 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,200 providing some uh recommendations on 796 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,040 uh different programs and and potential 797 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,760 uh projects to look at at water 798 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,320 conservation and and that does make a 799 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,680 Right. So you can there there are a 800 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,040 couple of graphs in the report that show 801 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,480 sort of a reduction in the demand and 802 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,880 then a slow increase as the uh with with growth. Um so there isn't there 803 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,640 wasn't sort of a specific in terms of 804 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,359 that that background um what the uh the 805 00:37:03,359 --> 00:37:06,320 future is but it was it was beyond what 806 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,040 the uh the planning horizon was for the 807 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,960 study which was the 50-year period. 808 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:20,310 Yeah. 809 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,000 Are you? 810 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,760 >> Yeah. Okay. Councelor Gor, go ahead sir. 811 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,440 >> Yes. Thank you, mayor. [clears throat] 812 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,920 Thank you uh for the presentation and uh 813 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,920 very uh detailed report. Uh good to have 814 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,680 those options I think explicitly 815 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,800 expressed now in this meeting. Um my 816 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,760 question is about the methodology. Um 817 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,359 when you gave us all those different 818 00:37:41,359 --> 00:37:44,560 options about potential sources, what 819 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,480 sort of methodology was used to come up 820 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,240 with those costs and the feasibility of 821 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,520 those sources? Was it just uh review of 822 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,880 the previous studies or any satellite 823 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,200 imagery? Like I just want to make sure 824 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,119 we are we are making the most informed 825 00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:00,560 decision when we choose one of those 826 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,160 sources. So if you can speak to the 827 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:03,680 methodology please. Thank you. 828 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,920 >> Yeah. No, of course. Uh so it was a 829 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,720 combination. Um we reviewed the previous 830 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:11,920 studies um and and those identified 831 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,400 those areas. We also looked at the 832 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:20,079 topography um with regards to um a 833 00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,119 uh where where in the watershed are 834 00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:25,760 there locations where for that sort of 835 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,640 that incremental height of a dam, how 836 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,680 much storage can you get? and and it 837 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,000 that that assessment came out to kind of 838 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,320 the same locations as as previously. 839 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,440 There are there are so many sites within 840 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,839 the area that that within the watershed 841 00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:44,720 that have that combination of the right 842 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,760 topography and normally normally it's a 843 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,920 lake. So, so if you think about sort of 844 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,040 a it it's sort of the difference between 845 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,200 storing volume in a triangle versus 846 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,200 storing volume in a square, right? So, 847 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,640 for the same amount of of Yeah. 848 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,720 So just to clarify, did that include 849 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:04,320 like field trips? You went there 850 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,280 actually to 851 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:06,800 >> No. Okay. There was Yeah. Yeah. There 852 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,800 were no there was no field investigation 853 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,680 as part of this this study. The only the 854 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,119 field trip that we did do was up to the 855 00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:14,800 existing the existing dam. 856 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:15,680 >> Okay. 857 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,000 >> I have one uh more question. Thank you. 858 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560 Um you spoke about the Aerosmith Dam and 859 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,440 the possibility of raising it. Uh uh our 860 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,839 current deficit is 2.2 million cubic. it 861 00:39:25,839 --> 00:39:29,760 will give us about two uh better than 862 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,839 nothing and I think uh in the staff 863 00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:34,320 report it mentions that staff recommends 864 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,520 looking at this uh as an option. Um I 865 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,280 personally do like it as a phased 866 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,240 approach uh strategy is already there uh 867 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,440 for us to explore this as an option. Um, 868 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,440 can you speak to a little bit on the 869 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,599 timeline if we were to start working on 870 00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:51,839 raising the dam? What sort of timeline 871 00:39:51,839 --> 00:39:53,359 are we looking at in getting those 872 00:39:53,359 --> 00:39:55,359 additional two cubic 2 million cubic 873 00:39:55,359 --> 00:39:56,720 meters of water? Thank you. 874 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,400 >> Yeah. Um, so there's a couple of 875 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,440 components to the timeline. Um, one is 876 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,240 the the design side and then the second 877 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:06,400 is the regulatory permitting because it 878 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,079 would require a change to the water 879 00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:11,280 license. And so in terms of timing, it's 880 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,800 it wouldn't be so a new source is 881 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,240 probably in the 10-year kind of range to get a new source online. I would say 882 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,040 an upgrade would be probably half of 883 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,599 that. So yeah, in that sort of range. 884 00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:30,160 >> Thanks. And since we're in committee, 885 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,400 >> yeah, that's sort of after the decisions 886 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,560 been been made to to move forward with 887 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,560 that option would be sort of in that 888 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,000 kind of timeline. Yeah. 889 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,800 >> Right. and and councelor Gorgan as Craig 890 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,720 had mentioned anyways the raising of the 891 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,520 Aerrol Smith Dam would have limited um 892 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,920 value in my mind in my opinion because 893 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,760 of what Craig said about it's such a 894 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,240 small amount of catchment in it be 895 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,640 because it the watershed that would 896 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,119 supply that in fact our existing dam 897 00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:00,400 that we have now does not always fill 898 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,640 right now during the winter months we've 899 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,160 had times when it's not been that 900 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,200 spillover and climate change is changing 901 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,599 a lot of tanks and that is included. So 902 00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:12,079 even if we add um build up the walls 903 00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,640 another 30 ft, there's no guarantee that 904 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:15,920 nature is going to actually fill that 905 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,400 during the winter. So if you c if you 906 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,560 can't capture it as it's such a small 907 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,280 area if you have some rainfall spread 908 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,040 over the whole wershed obviously that's 909 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,640 what the English river does and collects 910 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,200 all that but at the same time that it's 911 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,800 you you've been up the dam I think 912 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,640 haven't you see it's such a a tiny 913 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,560 little cone. So there's no guarantee 914 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,240 about that. That's just my comments on 915 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:37,920 that. That's why I'm a little reluctant 916 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,839 on that. Um, Councelor Martin, go ahead. 917 00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:46,240 >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I I thank you 918 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,200 for the reports there. Um, I was hoping 919 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,119 I would have more decisions to be able 920 00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:53,520 to make, you know, too many options 921 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,760 here, and the phased approach would 922 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,920 probably be the most practical, but um, 923 00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,079 what about one of the lakes going into 924 00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:04,880 the dam like using one of the lakes? 925 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,280 It's part of what your study has been. 926 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,440 So the cost of that raising the dam is 927 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,680 that a fiveyear would would be 10 years 928 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,040 too like like you just mentioned. 929 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:22,000 Would it would that work? I mean what I find really hard is I'm I was in 930 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,839 Victoria when we had a water problem. I 931 00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:26,079 don't know if mentioned and they raised 932 00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:28,160 their dam and they have more water than 933 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,640 they'll ever need now. And so I find 934 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,240 this 935 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:34,319 seems to be such a simple thing but it's 936 00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:35,920 not. 937 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,480 So is it is it quite different than what 938 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,640 happened in Victoria there Dan? 939 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,800 >> Yeah thanks council Martin. Um yeah 940 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:49,119 there's so it the the main um driver is 941 00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:51,119 there are two there are two pieces when 942 00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:52,720 you're looking at water surface water 943 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,599 supply that you need to consider. One is 944 00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:57,599 how much water on an annual basis is 945 00:42:57,599 --> 00:42:59,599 there that's coming off. And that's to 946 00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:03,119 be able to provide flow throughout the 947 00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:05,200 year um both for the community and for 948 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,400 environmental flow needs as well as be 949 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,480 able to refill the storage that you've 950 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:15,920 depleted the year before. for um for 951 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,040 the CRD system um down in Victoria, the 952 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,560 greater Victoria Water Supply system. Um 953 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,640 their wershed in terms of a ratio is 954 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,640 significantly more is significantly 955 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,440 bigger um with the ratio of the amount 956 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,119 of water that's available in the wershed 957 00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:33,040 to this amount of storage because the 958 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,000 wershed is quite a bit bigger. Um the 959 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,520 other piece with the Victoria system is 960 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,000 um they do have that it's not been 961 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,160 implemented yet, but there is a future 962 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:45,920 potential implementation of the Leech 963 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,760 River system to be able to bring 964 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,680 additional water in. Um, 965 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,760 going back to the first part of your 966 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,520 question around the uh other lakes 967 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,960 upstream of of Aerosmith, 968 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,119 it's because it's all coming from the 969 00:44:03,119 --> 00:44:05,200 same watershed. 970 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,920 It's it's you you need to whether that's 971 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,839 storage is being filled at the 972 00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:12,240 downstream end where the dam is or 973 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:14,160 further upstream, it's all coming from 974 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,440 the same location. So you it's even 975 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,079 though you could split that storage up 976 00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:22,079 over a couple of different locations 977 00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:23,920 because the overall wershed isn't 978 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,319 supplying sufficient water to refill the 979 00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:28,800 storage currently. It it wouldn't 980 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,880 provide enough to fill up two stoages in 981 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,560 the same wershed. You could look at it 982 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,280 at a separate whed like the fish tail as 983 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,000 an example. Um, but because it's all 984 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,480 coming from the same watershed, it's it 985 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,640 it's uh it wouldn't be able to fill up 986 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,680 both both of the the stoages. Yeah. 987 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:52,160 >> Good. Good. Counc. Go ahead, sir. 988 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:53,520 >> Thank you through the mayor to our 989 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,920 delegation. Uh, in your presentation 990 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,920 here, you mentioned Oquer 216. Uh but I 991 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,079 in your report it was off for 221 that 992 00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:05,119 you guys were speaking about as uh the 993 00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:08,240 potential to there. So uh I guess why 994 00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:10,960 the shift from like why the focus on 216 995 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,119 here and not mentioning 221. 996 00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:13,440 >> Yeah. 997 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,880 >> But and also uh isn't 221 known 998 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,400 vulnerable aquifer as it is now? Um you 999 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,160 talk about groundwater like being only 1000 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,720 you know potential uh supplement there 1001 00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:29,359 too. But um yeah anyways why Hagum 221 1002 00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:30,640 is not mentioned here but it was one of 1003 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,319 the key findings in your report. 1004 00:45:32,319 --> 00:45:36,319 >> Yeah um did you want to speak to it? Uh 1005 00:45:36,319 --> 00:45:37,280 yeah. 1006 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,960 >> Yeah. The um we did look at um both 1007 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,520 aquifers. Aquifer 221 if we could do you 1008 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,760 mind pulling up that slide with the uh 1009 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,440 um aquifer 221 is there is a system sand 1010 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,440 periel I think that draws from that 1011 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,599 aquifer and it is closer to uh to the 1012 00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:00,319 ocean. Uh so further study would be 1013 00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:04,240 needed to to figure out um what further 1014 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,720 water could be drawn from there. I think 1015 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:10,079 here the reference to um acquer 216 is 1016 00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:12,720 your current aquifer where where again 1017 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:18,319 there's um potential for for a small 1018 00:46:18,319 --> 00:46:20,800 amount to be drawn from that as well. uh 1019 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,040 just further study is needed in terms of 1020 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,200 a groundwater numerical model which uh the regional district of 1021 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,000 Nanaimo has has has done some of that 1022 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,560 work in the past but it hasn't been done 1023 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:39,990 in the context of the city's supply and withdrawal specifically. 1024 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,280 » Okay. 1025 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,359 Um and then also it seemed like uh 1026 00:46:45,359 --> 00:46:47,599 Shelton and Healey Lake were some you 1027 00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:50,400 know primary uh sources that have been 1028 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,079 identified in the past too. What's your 1029 00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:54,240 guys' opinion then on the the potential 1030 00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:56,400 out of there and and you know I guess 1031 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,000 like why haven't they been highlighted 1032 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,400 as more as like the you know we're 1033 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:01,680 looking for some kind of clear direction 1034 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,079 as saying like this is your best option 1035 00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:08,480 uh for not just um the value but for you 1036 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,960 know if you look at a lifetime as uh 1037 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,960 councelor Gren mentioned like looking uh 1038 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,359 forward ahead in in generations here uh 1039 00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:18,400 would this not be the one to benefit us 1040 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,800 long term uh you know I don't want to 1041 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,560 see us take a position of going, let's 1042 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:23,920 do something that's of good value, 1043 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,880 meaning just cheap for us now, but then 1044 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,200 in 20 years we go, oh, like we we should 1045 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,359 have gone with the, you know, the more 1046 00:47:31,359 --> 00:47:33,119 robust system because now we just made 1047 00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:34,800 it harder for ourselves later on. We 1048 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,720 already spent a whole whack of money and 1049 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,160 now it's more expensive to do what we 1050 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,680 should have done in the first place. So 1051 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,040 you know when I think about value it's 1052 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,800 the long term not just what you know 1053 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,599 this uh this council or the next council 1054 00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:47,599 will be uh having a face for the 1055 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:49,599 taxpayers but you know the residents in 1056 00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,000 20 years what's the the you know the 1057 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,440 value over the lifetime. 1058 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,520 Yeah. Um yeah thanks councelor presence. 1059 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,960 Um so there's uh for for Shelton and 1060 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,200 Healey um there have been they they have 1061 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,200 been identified previously as as 1062 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,160 potential um options as you'd mentioned. 1063 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,319 Um so there were in addition to the cost 1064 00:48:14,319 --> 00:48:16,640 um there were some other considerations 1065 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,160 uh for that that may kind of at the 1066 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,160 level of the analysis that was done to 1067 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,400 sort of provide clear direction. the um 1068 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,400 there was so for Shelton it's similar to 1069 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,800 Aerosmith in that the watershed area is 1070 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,200 relatively small and so the ability to 1071 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,440 refill storage in that location is is 1072 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,200 limited. 1073 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,839 The um Healey is downstream. It has 1074 00:48:41,839 --> 00:48:44,720 quite a larger a larger watershed area 1075 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,440 which is h which is helpful in terms of 1076 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,440 refilling. Um but um there could 1077 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,920 potentially be some environmental um 1078 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,000 considerations. It's more of a wetland 1079 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,319 than a lake. Um and so there might there 1080 00:48:58,319 --> 00:49:01,200 could potentially be um species at risk 1081 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,880 or other considerations that would need 1082 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,319 to be considered as part of permitting. 1083 00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:05,839 So there's a bit more of a permitting 1084 00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:08,079 risk, an environmental risk on that one. 1085 00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:10,960 And then the other piece for both is the 1086 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,880 amount of storage that's required is it 1087 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,200 would be more um because there would be 1088 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,240 a requirement to release because the 1089 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:19,839 waters coming from the south Englishman 1090 00:49:19,839 --> 00:49:21,599 river wershed there would be an 1091 00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:23,200 additional requirement to supply 1092 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,200 environmental flow needs for the 1093 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,520 southishment. Um so the amount of 1094 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,040 storage that's why the storage numbers 1095 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,599 for those are higher than than fishtail 1096 00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:33,520 is because there would be a supplemental 1097 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,359 need to supply um additional flow along 1098 00:49:37,359 --> 00:49:40,240 the along the south Englishman. Um so 1099 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:44,400 even though they um they might they 1100 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,160 they're from a from a technical 1101 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,000 perspective and a cost perspective 1102 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,319 they're they're they seem to be high on 1103 00:49:50,319 --> 00:49:51,599 the list because of those other 1104 00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:54,240 considerations. um they kind of balanced 1105 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,079 off with the other with the other 1106 00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:58,880 options like fishtail or or the South 1107 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,520 Englishman tributary. The um fishtail 1108 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,040 um has a smaller volume requirement 1109 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,359 because it's it's feeding directly into 1110 00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:11,119 the Englishman. So it would essentially 1111 00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:12,720 supplement the existing environmental 1112 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:17,119 flow need requirements for for the the Englishman River, the main stem of 1113 00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:20,480 the Englishman River. um as well at but 1114 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,000 one of the challenges with Fishtail was 1115 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,720 more on the technical side is is access. 1116 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,040 Um it's it's it's a very it would be a 1117 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,680 difficult site to get to. Um so sort of 1118 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,000 those trade-offs and it was it we sort 1119 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,359 of that's why we went through that 1120 00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:35,200 process and in the end there were 1121 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,119 several that kind of came out close and 1122 00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:38,480 so there'd need to be kind of more 1123 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,200 evaluation. There wasn't sort of a clear 1124 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,839 front runner after doing that analysis. 1125 00:50:43,839 --> 00:50:45,200 So yeah. 1126 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,800 >> Go ahead. 1127 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,400 Um 1128 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,319 Sorry. Thank you. Um, so speaking of the 1129 00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:52,559 Fishtail area as well, there is that 1130 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:54,559 small lake uh between Aerosmith Dam and 1131 00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:56,640 Fishtail, Hidden Lake, I believe it's 1132 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,440 called. Uh, why no mention about, you 1133 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,559 know, draining that one into uh the 1134 00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,800 Aerosmith Dam. Seems that it it seems 1135 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,559 like the access is it's on the same side 1136 00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:08,000 of the ridge. There's already a road 1137 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,920 that's going right up to it. It's right 1138 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,839 above Aerosmith. It seems like you could 1139 00:51:11,839 --> 00:51:14,319 just put a line in a tap and then you 1140 00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:16,480 know I know it's not a lot of volume but 1141 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,880 um when you talk about if the dam's not 1142 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,160 spilling over you know if you're 1143 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,800 supplementing even 20% out of it that's quite a bit more water that's not 1144 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,440 being utilized right now. Um is that an 1145 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,599 option or or why has that not been 1146 00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:31,119 discussed as like here's a little bit 1147 00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:33,920 more low hanging fruit to get more water 1148 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:35,119 to the dam? 1149 00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:39,359 >> Yeah. So um sort of similar it um so a 1150 00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:42,079 hidden lake flows into Aerosmith as as 1151 00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:45,359 you indicated and because it's within 1152 00:51:45,359 --> 00:51:47,280 the same watershed 1153 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,680 um whether whether that's stored at the 1154 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,880 existing location or at Hidden Lake, 1155 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,880 it's all coming from the same volume of 1156 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:01,440 water. Um, and so essentially your your 1157 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,680 the volume that you would require to 1158 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,160 fill up Hidden Lake is now not going to 1159 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:07,280 clear Smith water. 1160 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:08,880 >> So it's already draining into the dam. 1161 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,480 >> It's already draining into the dam 1162 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,119 already. So So capturing it further 1163 00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:14,319 upstream. 1164 00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:16,000 >> Um, 1165 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,599 it's not providing a benefit. 1166 00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:19,119 >> If it's already draining into it, then 1167 00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:21,040 that that Yeah, it's a good point at 1168 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,200 that point. I just to me it just seemed 1169 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,200 like it sits there and just evaporates 1170 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,599 and and doesn't uh do anything. So 1171 00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:29,520 because you have water up there in 1172 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,040 August as well as sitting up there and 1173 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,319 our dam's going low and there's still 1174 00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:34,079 water in Hidden Lake. So I just thought 1175 00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:35,920 why would we keep water up in there? Why 1176 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,720 not put all into the dam into the same 1177 00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:39,760 source? 1178 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,721 >> Um okay, thank you for that. Appreciate 1179 00:52:41,721 --> 00:52:45,990 [clears throat] that. 1180 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,760 » Uh 1181 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,720 councelor 1182 00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:51,760 certly go ahead. 1183 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,520 >> Thank you Mr. mayor and thank you very 1184 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,599 much for the presentation and the update 1185 00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:57,680 and the information. I really appreciate 1186 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,480 it. I have a and I wanted to focus the 1187 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,359 questions on this particular topic and 1188 00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:06,640 leave the aquifer and groundwater uh 1189 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,440 conservation separately. Um, I was 1190 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,440 curious first of all, and forgive me 1191 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,680 everybody here who already knows this, 1192 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,000 but I don't recall if the South 1193 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,440 Englishman River flows into uh the 1194 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,559 Englishman above or below the clay 1195 00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:25,599 banks. Can you answer that? Can somebody 1196 00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:27,040 here answer that? 1197 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:31,040 >> I Yeah. Um, yeah, my understanding is 1198 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,000 it's above it flows in above the clay. 1199 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,359 >> That's what I was afraid of. That's what 1200 00:53:35,359 --> 00:53:36,880 I thought. But I was thinking, oh, I 1201 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,720 just haven't been up there recently, so 1202 00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:40,960 I couldn't recall. Okay. I just thought 1203 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,880 that would eliminate a little bit of a, 1204 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,839 you know, an area of some friction, 1205 00:53:45,839 --> 00:53:47,839 let's say, regarding water treatment 1206 00:53:47,839 --> 00:53:50,319 plant. But my questions are also about 1207 00:53:50,319 --> 00:53:52,319 uh Shelton and Healey and and the 1208 00:53:52,319 --> 00:53:53,920 information you've given has helped a 1209 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,839 bit with that. But um presumably this 1210 00:53:57,839 --> 00:54:00,079 they would not be combined in a way as a 1211 00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:02,160 phrase approach but that if one went 1212 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,400 with Healey that is basically drawing 1213 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,880 from Shelton as well as it feeds into 1214 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,599 Healey would that be correct. So in fact 1215 00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:14,319 uh if we if one looked at um Healey then 1216 00:54:14,319 --> 00:54:17,200 that is drawing on that whole area 1217 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,000 correct okay thank you. And another 1218 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,960 question again for clarification. 1219 00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,839 Um you know hearing the mayor speak uh 1220 00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:28,319 and yourself speak about the sidestream 1221 00:54:28,319 --> 00:54:31,359 storage. Um 1222 00:54:31,359 --> 00:54:33,520 I I've just I guess I've been a little 1223 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,920 bit perplexed like how is that really 1224 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,640 different from uh what's being looked at 1225 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,440 here in terms of providing a dam and and 1226 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,000 gathering an area that is storage that 1227 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,359 is then released as needed. and over 1228 00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:50,720 time um although perhaps I guess the 1229 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,359 spillover part is not necessarily 1230 00:54:53,359 --> 00:54:56,559 released sorry utilized for the city but 1231 00:54:56,559 --> 00:54:58,960 nonetheless depending on the size of the 1232 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,520 dam that actually provides storage. So 1233 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,800 is is really the difference in terms of 1234 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,800 considering something like that is it 1235 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,040 around regulatory 1236 00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,000 um requirements if I made from the 1237 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,400 province or is it around water licenses 1238 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,440 or if one had something like sidestream 1239 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,000 storage would that not also need some 1240 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,000 kind of water license I'm just not 1241 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,520 understanding 1242 00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,040 why one would look at that if we um are 1243 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,000 able to provide enough storage of water 1244 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,319 with one of the options that you put 1245 00:55:32,319 --> 00:55:34,400 forward. 1246 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,790 >> Um, yeah. So, I think 1247 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,720 so I'll just clarify in terms of your 1248 00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:42,960 the first part of your question. Um, 1249 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,880 yes. So, for Shelton and Healey, they 1250 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,720 were both coming from the same the same 1251 00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:49,440 watershed and there could be the 1252 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,839 potential of of having so one larger dam 1253 00:55:53,839 --> 00:55:56,960 at at Healey or two smaller dams, one at 1254 00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:58,960 Shelf and one at Healey. So there are 1255 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,680 some potential options there, but again 1256 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,079 sort of similar to to Aerosmith, it's 1257 00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:06,160 all coming from the same wershed. So you 1258 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,400 the total volume that's available is is 1259 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,480 the same no matter where you're storing 1260 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,040 it. Uh 1261 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,400 I'll I'll stick on that side. Um so the 1262 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,680 for the the licensing um because it is 1263 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,640 in it's new storage um there be a new 1264 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,040 dam there would be a requirement for a 1265 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,559 license a new license for the structure 1266 00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:32,240 and 1267 00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,520 the license needs to define both what 1268 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,480 the location the volume and the use the 1269 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,799 intended use. Um and so in this 1270 00:56:40,799 --> 00:56:43,119 particular case it would be there would 1271 00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,760 be a component of it for uh the 1272 00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,599 community um demand and withdrawal and 1273 00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:51,680 the other component of it would be for 1274 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,559 storage to supplement flows in the south 1275 00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,839 Englishman river. Um because the storage 1276 00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:00,240 is located on the south Englishman there 1277 00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:02,240 would be an expectation that there would 1278 00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,200 be additional flows provided on top of 1279 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,040 what's required for the community. So 1280 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,640 that's why there's more storage. the um 1281 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,280 for the 1282 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,119 and and the main reason for that is 1283 00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:17,119 because you'd be releasing the flow and 1284 00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:19,280 during the summer period when the flows 1285 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,559 are low, when the base flows are low and 1286 00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:25,680 um the the for the east coast of the 1287 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,799 island, um essentially the the policy is 1288 00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:30,960 that you provide you need if you're 1289 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,520 withdrawing water during that time, then 1290 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,520 you need there's enough storage to be 1291 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,079 able to support the withdrawal as well 1292 00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:43,200 as an environmental flow need. Um the 1293 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,040 for the off channel storage uh the 1294 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,280 intent there would be that the water be 1295 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,040 withdrawn during the period when there's 1296 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,440 higher flow and so 1297 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,200 there would there may still be that's 1298 00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,359 one thing I can't comment on is like 1299 00:57:59,359 --> 00:58:00,799 there might still be the need for 1300 00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:02,480 additional environmental flow needs 1301 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,400 potentially with that. It's it it it 1302 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,240 that would need some further discussion 1303 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,520 with the regulator on that one. But the 1304 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,040 sort of the intent would be that the 1305 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,319 water would be withdrawn in the winter 1306 00:58:12,319 --> 00:58:14,319 when the flows are higher um and then 1307 00:58:14,319 --> 00:58:23,200 stored um in in a um in a location in a pond um that would then be used 1308 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,920 through the summer period. the and I 1309 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,640 guess from a from a 1310 00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:32,319 technical perspective the difference 1311 00:58:32,319 --> 00:58:37,119 would be that the pond um an off channel 1312 00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:40,000 pond would require you would be 1313 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,839 constructing the volume by excavating 1314 00:58:43,839 --> 00:58:46,400 and and burming like essentially 1315 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,680 creating a dugout a really large dugout 1316 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:54,480 um or a series of dugouts um versus um 1317 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,839 using a natural feature um and a dam to 1318 00:58:57,839 --> 00:59:00,880 be able to provide the storage. And so 1319 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,280 there's sort of it the main differences 1320 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:10,319 are just sort of the the footprint the the incremental footprint of of the 1321 00:59:10,319 --> 00:59:13,040 storage area. So if we're looking at say 1322 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,960 Shelton for example, um there's already 1323 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,280 a lake there. Um, and so you the lake 1324 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:23,359 would be bigger, but it would the the 1325 00:59:23,359 --> 00:59:25,200 incremental size of that would be less 1326 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,799 than what a a new pond would be. Um, so 1327 00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:30,000 that there's there's other 1328 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,680 considerations there, too. And so 1329 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:32,720 there's land considerations, 1330 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,040 environmental considerations. At the 1331 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:36,640 same time, off channel storage, you 1332 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,880 would sort of remove those potential um 1333 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,240 potential regulatory. if there was a a a 1334 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,559 good location, you could remove some of 1335 00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:49,280 the other regulatory environmental 1336 00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,559 concerns around raising a lake. So, 1337 00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:54,880 raising a lake, there are concerns about 1338 00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,720 how does that affect the the the 1339 00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,440 riparian area? Um what kind of impact 1340 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,760 does that have on the land? Um the land 1341 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,359 like there's the land owner. Um whereas 1342 01:00:05,359 --> 01:00:07,119 providing offstream storage, you're 1343 01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:08,799 eliminating some of that because it's 1344 01:00:08,799 --> 01:00:11,839 separated from the the riparian zone. Um 1345 01:00:11,839 --> 01:00:15,680 and uh there could be other terrestrial 1346 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,839 considerations in terms of changing that 1347 01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:21,760 habitat from terrestrial to aquatic but 1348 01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:27,839 um but it but there's a trade-off there. 1349 01:00:27,839 --> 01:00:30,240 >> You mention sorry also mentioned the 1350 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,680 potential water quality uh concerns. So 1351 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,680 would need to be some detailed study on 1352 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,240 uh on how that would be impacted having 1353 01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,880 storing water and not not having outflow 1354 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,839 from it or no movement in that water. 1355 01:00:43,839 --> 01:00:46,559 Yeah, 1356 01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:48,319 >> Dr. Wood, go ahead. 1357 01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:51,599 >> Thank you, mayor. Uh I sent a slide to 1358 01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:55,119 staff. I'm hoping that they got it. I 1359 01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:56,720 wasn't really planning to speak to this. 1360 01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,440 is um 1361 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,839 it's with regards to um environmental 1362 01:01:01,839 --> 01:01:05,440 flow needs. And so, um, 1363 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,559 in your presentation today, we saw that 1364 01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:11,280 the flow in the river during the drought 1365 01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,559 periods or the dry season is actually 1366 01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:18,000 better because there's a dam. And so, I 1367 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:22,160 think we have some misconceptions about 1368 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,720 what the dam means. And yes, there's 1369 01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,400 environmental concerns when we're going 1370 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:27,839 to build the dam. We saw a lot of that 1371 01:01:27,839 --> 01:01:30,160 with site C. you know, you're flooding 1372 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:31,680 farmland and you're never going to use 1373 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,480 that land again, etc., etc. So, where we 1374 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:35,760 build the dam, there's definitely 1375 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,880 environmental concerns, but um I pulled 1376 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,599 a bunch of data that's public data as to 1377 01:01:41,599 --> 01:01:43,599 how the river has done since we were 1378 01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:47,440 pulling the data. And you can see that 1379 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:52,880 it was very low uh lower than before the 1380 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,599 dam. And now the dam actually makes it 1381 01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:59,440 obviously better um than it was before 1382 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,920 we were holding water up there. Um you 1383 01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,960 can also I put population growth on here 1384 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,680 too. And 1385 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:11,440 the idea seems to be that if we can flow 1386 01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,280 more water uh from upland, we're 1387 01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:16,559 actually making it better for the 1388 01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:18,640 rivers. It's not worse, it is better. 1389 01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,680 the dams make the rivers and you know 1390 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,960 the environment for the fish better. Um 1391 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,640 and so I think there's a misconception 1392 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,240 that um we built the dam and things got 1393 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,640 worse. You can see by the data that the 1394 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,119 river used to be much more dry and if we 1395 01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:36,559 weren't releasing water from the dam 1396 01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:39,680 right now there'd be a trickle. Um, and 1397 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,760 so I I just wanted to mention that when 1398 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,200 we're talking about environmental needs, 1399 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:44,960 if there was Shelton or Healey or 1400 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,280 whatever uh options up there that if we 1401 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,000 build more upstream water storage and be 1402 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,880 releasing it, the the lower down on the 1403 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,079 watershed is healthier, not not worse, 1404 01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:00,720 because we get to control a little bit 1405 01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,040 and add a little bit more water when 1406 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,599 there wouldn't have been naturally. Um, 1407 01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:07,200 I'd love to see us plan for zero 1408 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,599 snowpack. Uh, if we get years with 1409 01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:12,319 snowpack, great. With more, you know, 1410 01:03:12,319 --> 01:03:14,240 that's natural upland water storage is 1411 01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,079 how I kind of look at it. I think I 1412 01:03:16,079 --> 01:03:17,760 mentioned that to you guys before. Um, 1413 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,119 but I would love to hear your thoughts 1414 01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:21,760 on if I'm, you know, if I'm on the right 1415 01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,160 track. This is data looks right to you. 1416 01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,079 know, is that what dams actually do? 1417 01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:28,480 they make lower on the wershed? Do 1418 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,880 they make the rivers actually healthier 1419 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,680 um than they would be naturally? 1420 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,359 >> Um, 1421 01:03:35,359 --> 01:03:37,599 yeah. No, thanks Councelor Wood for your 1422 01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:41,920 question. Um, yeah, so again, um, I'm 1423 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,079 going to focus on the Englishman. Um, 1424 01:03:44,079 --> 01:03:46,640 dams as a whole is a is is is a is 1425 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,319 definitely a broader broader question, 1426 01:03:48,319 --> 01:03:50,640 but um, for the for the Englishman River 1427 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,880 specifically, um, yes, like the the the 1428 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,200 dam has provided storage in the upland 1429 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:01,280 that is providing increased flows for 1430 01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,119 almost the entire main stem of the 1431 01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:07,039 Englishman River. Um and one of the 1432 01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:08,720 there there are two parts to that. One 1433 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,280 is it's um it's increasing what the 1434 01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,039 flows were downstream of the intake um 1435 01:04:15,039 --> 01:04:18,319 to be able to to to provide benefit for 1436 01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:21,440 that for the intake down to the ocean. 1437 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,799 Um but the other piece is the water that 1438 01:04:24,799 --> 01:04:27,119 the community is using is flowing all 1439 01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:29,039 the way down the river before it's 1440 01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:32,000 getting withdrawn. And that water is 1441 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,559 also benefiting upstream. Um 1442 01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,599 uh by like alternatively when the dam 1443 01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:41,760 was constructed there could have been a 1444 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:43,839 pipeline that was constructed all the 1445 01:04:43,839 --> 01:04:45,520 way down from the dam to the community 1446 01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:46,960 and that water wouldn't have gone into 1447 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:48,319 the river. So there's so there's a 1448 01:04:48,319 --> 01:04:50,160 benefit. It's a it's a co- benefit. So 1449 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,240 there's a benefit to the community and a 1450 01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,680 benefit to the river. Um and yeah and so 1451 01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,880 for Shelton and Healey there would be 1452 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,520 that benefit to then the South 1453 01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,760 Englishman as well. Um but that would 1454 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,240 need to be looked at and offset against 1455 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:07,920 what are some of the concerns around 1456 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,960 raising the water level in the lake. Um 1457 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,079 and and and that tradeoff it's it's it's 1458 01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:15,599 about considering those trade-offs. 1459 01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:17,119 Yeah. 1460 01:05:17,119 --> 01:05:19,039 Can I sorry I add to that council we're 1461 01:05:19,039 --> 01:05:22,079 just in regard to the um a new project 1462 01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:24,319 also there there could be bene uh there 1463 01:05:24,319 --> 01:05:25,599 obviously we're talking about benefits 1464 01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:26,720 the environment there could be 1465 01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,920 opportunity to seek funding from other 1466 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,359 uh sources too where uh environmental 1467 01:05:33,359 --> 01:05:37,039 agencies are such that to promote that 1468 01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:40,799 uh water usage downstream for uh for the 1469 01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:42,319 environment. 1470 01:05:42,319 --> 01:05:44,799 >> Yeah. So if there's that co- benefit of 1471 01:05:44,799 --> 01:05:46,799 an environmental benefit and a community 1472 01:05:46,799 --> 01:05:49,359 benefit, there could be some additional 1473 01:05:49,359 --> 01:05:51,359 um potential funding sources if it's 1474 01:05:51,359 --> 01:05:52,799 provide if it's showing that it's 1475 01:05:52,799 --> 01:05:55,200 providing benefit for for habitat for 1476 01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,839 aquatic habitat. And then you know my 1477 01:05:57,839 --> 01:05:59,200 followup and I don't know how the 1478 01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,079 regulators operate but um if I were a 1479 01:06:02,079 --> 01:06:04,720 regulator I would be balancing the 1480 01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:06,400 environmental concerns of you know 1481 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,160 raising the level of the lake and what 1482 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,960 happens way upstream uh versus the 1483 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,640 obvious benefits to the river fish 1484 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,240 habitat etc downstream. Um, and if the 1485 01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,480 feds and the province want us to build 1486 01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,200 more housing, well, you know, obviously 1487 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,039 water supply is part of our 1488 01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:27,599 infrastructure that we provide here. And 1489 01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:29,200 so if I were a regulator, I'd be like, 1490 01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:30,559 yeah, you know, the water level is going 1491 01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:33,440 to go up at whatever, you know, location 1492 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,280 we choose. Um, but the benefits far 1493 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,200 outweigh for the environmental flow 1494 01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,839 needs, uh, for the community. They they 1495 01:06:41,839 --> 01:06:43,599 far outweigh that. And so I don't know 1496 01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:45,760 how regulators, who is that? I don't 1497 01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,079 know how they typically operate and 1498 01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:50,160 maybe you guys as engineers maybe maybe 1499 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:51,680 you could shed some light on what they 1500 01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,119 look at when they when they are 1501 01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:54,720 balancing these decisions. 1502 01:06:54,720 --> 01:07:01,359 >> Um yeah so so there are um really 1503 01:07:01,359 --> 01:07:04,000 sort of three areas I guess broadly that 1504 01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,720 the regulators looking at on the water 1505 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:10,880 licensing side anyway. Um so one is the 1506 01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,280 first is is there enough water 1507 01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:18,000 technically? Um the second is does would 1508 01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:23,440 issuing the license impact um any of the 1509 01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,440 rights holders. So that's um property 1510 01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:34,000 rights, other water rights holders, uh First Nations, land title, um and 1511 01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,680 then and making sure there's because the 1512 01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,920 province needs to consult and and with First Nations. So there's there 1513 01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,480 there's a First Nations um component to 1514 01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,240 the question in terms of making sure 1515 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,000 that that the community is on board with 1516 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:50,319 what the direction is. Um and then uh 1517 01:07:50,319 --> 01:07:52,799 there's and then there's also the 1518 01:07:52,799 --> 01:07:56,720 environmental component. Um and to some 1519 01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,799 extent the social component as well. Um 1520 01:07:58,799 --> 01:08:01,119 so there there's usually a development 1521 01:08:01,119 --> 01:08:04,880 plan that's prepared that by the by the 1522 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,240 proponent. So whoever's applying for the 1523 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:10,079 license needs to put together a document 1524 01:08:10,079 --> 01:08:12,720 that kind of outlines the benefits and 1525 01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,559 the costs of each of those components. 1526 01:08:14,559 --> 01:08:17,199 Um and and then it's up to the regulator 1527 01:08:17,199 --> 01:08:22,960 to go either um yes like the the I I 1528 01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,560 concur that overall for those different 1529 01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,719 components that the benefit is to issue 1530 01:08:28,719 --> 01:08:32,799 the license or no it's not or there's 1531 01:08:32,799 --> 01:08:35,279 the middle of need more information 1532 01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:36,799 right and so that's essentially the 1533 01:08:36,799 --> 01:08:39,279 process for the licensing and then on 1534 01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:42,480 the on the DFO side um it's really more 1535 01:08:42,480 --> 01:08:46,880 focused on the The main sort of test is 1536 01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:51,199 are the actions being taken? Are they um 1537 01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:52,719 altering 1538 01:08:52,719 --> 01:08:55,600 um or destroying fish habitat? So that's 1539 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,040 their test um in terms of issuing a a a 1540 01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,199 license under the under the Fisheries 1541 01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:03,440 Act. So they're really focused like 1542 01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:05,199 their their focus is really on the 1543 01:09:05,199 --> 01:09:08,480 aquatic habitat um and are the actions 1544 01:09:08,480 --> 01:09:11,440 being taken are they going to impact um 1545 01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:14,719 and like either alter or destroy habitat 1546 01:09:14,719 --> 01:09:16,719 in any way. Um 1547 01:09:16,719 --> 01:09:16,960 >> yeah, 1548 01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,159 >> thank you very much for answering those. 1549 01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:19,839 And to your last point, yeah, I don't 1550 01:09:19,839 --> 01:09:21,359 I'm not a biologist, so I don't 1551 01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:23,440 understand like if we're actually adding 1552 01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:25,040 more water to the habitat than would 1553 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,359 naturally be there. So, I don't I don't 1554 01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:29,440 quite understand the environmental flow 1555 01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:31,520 needs, which are higher than 1556 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,920 historically what it would be. Uh, but 1557 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:35,040 thank you for answering those and thank 1558 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,199 you to staff for um throwing that slide 1559 01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:38,960 up. Thanks, Mayor. 1560 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:43,120 >> Great. Thank you. I I'll just uh throw 1561 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,759 in just a comment. Anyways, um just 1562 01:09:45,759 --> 01:09:48,640 spitballing here. Um I hung around in 1563 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,040 Calgary a little while and my use and so 1564 01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:52,640 forth. What is the use of for the 1565 01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:54,239 Glenmore Dam? Are you familiar with the 1566 01:09:54,239 --> 01:09:56,480 Glenmore Dam? It's right in the middle 1567 01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:58,400 of Calgary. Well, Calgary is growing all 1568 01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,800 around the Glenmore and Heritage Park is 1569 01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:02,320 right beside there, the huge subdivision 1570 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:03,920 and so forth. But are you familiar with 1571 01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,080 the Glenmore? Is it is it actually flood 1572 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:07,600 control like all the problems they've 1573 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,120 had in Calgary and the flood control, 1574 01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,120 but are they actually using it as a 1575 01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,760 storage for their potable water? 1576 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,880 >> Um, yeah. So, my under I know a little 1577 01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:18,400 bit about it, so I'm going to qualify 1578 01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:19,840 that, right? But I think my 1579 01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,880 understanding is is it's twofold. Um so 1580 01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,880 there there is some um uh storage for 1581 01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,440 flood control to some extent and then 1582 01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,440 also like my understanding is they do 1583 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:33,920 use Glenmore as as one of their water 1584 01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:34,560 supplies. 1585 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:36,719 >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. It it that's one of 1586 01:10:36,719 --> 01:10:39,600 those like as we say a phased let's put 1587 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,120 a reservoir here because we have the 1588 01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,199 land here and it's right adjacent to 1589 01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:45,360 probably the B river anyways are right 1590 01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:46,480 there. So yeah, 1591 01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:47,520 >> um good planning 1592 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,960 >> and yeah and I know like relatively 1593 01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,040 recently my understanding is they've 1594 01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:54,960 also provided some additional flood 1595 01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,760 relief um through a new system that that 1596 01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,760 allows the water to flow out into the 1597 01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,520 flood plane which is agricultural land 1598 01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:02,080 >> right 1599 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,360 >> um and then slowly released back into um 1600 01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,679 into the elbow before flowing down into Glenmore and I think it was just 1601 01:11:09,679 --> 01:11:12,080 recently tested with the recent with the 1602 01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:13,840 recent rains and I believe that they're 1603 01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:15,280 sort of evaluating what the water 1604 01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:16,560 quality quality impacts of that have 1605 01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,640 been um Yeah. 1606 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,560 >> Yeah. And and that's exactly I did a 1607 01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,120 tour with FCM anyways back in Calgary 1608 01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,440 anyways two years ago and I saw the 1609 01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:27,760 results of that management of the storm 1610 01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,159 water and it was huge but um they had to 1611 01:11:30,159 --> 01:11:33,520 do it because they had a a disaster a 1612 01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:34,960 few years previous on that. 1613 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,560 >> So thank you for that. Just a quick 1614 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:37,760 question. I'll go to the second time 1615 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,040 speakers in a second here. Um we're going to be looking for direction 1616 01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,920 from council anyways to say um which 1617 01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,159 where we want to go on phase two um soon 1618 01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:49,040 here. Um just in your estimation if we 1619 01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,040 took just a simple approach for phase 1620 01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:52,960 two as I was suggesting just come up 1621 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:54,800 with storage solution or something like 1622 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,360 that. Um we're talking budget here. You 1623 01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:59,840 know we have I understand $431,000 left 1624 01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:01,520 in our budget anyways that we have 1625 01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:03,760 allocated for this study. um could 1626 01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,120 that's uh just that portion and not do 1627 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,199 anything else that was suggested would 1628 01:12:09,199 --> 01:12:11,679 that be able to be done for uh within 1629 01:12:11,679 --> 01:12:13,520 our budget. 1630 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,800 So the so just to in ter of clarifying 1631 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,239 um so looking specifically at the um at 1632 01:12:20,239 --> 01:12:25,920 the offstream yes storage um and just that comp component of it um yes 1633 01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,600 yeah um yeah um in terms of the broader 1634 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,920 um sort of ideas it that's going to 1635 01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:33,280 depend a little bit on the scope but 1636 01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,040 that that piece of the scope yes 1637 01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,280 >> I I would expect it would be within that 1638 01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,159 but uh just from your your past work all 1639 01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:42,400 you had to do on that but I just 1640 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,320 >> don't assume anything unless you get get 1641 01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:45,760 the answer. Thanks. Thanks for that, 1642 01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:47,600 Greg. Councelor Gore has another 1643 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:48,000 question. 1644 01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:48,320 >> Thank you. 1645 01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,560 >> Oh, sorry. And councelor Gran, you you 1646 01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,800 want to follow up too, Council Gore and 1647 01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,239 then over to you. Yes. 1648 01:12:54,239 --> 01:12:57,520 >> Thanks. Thank you, Mayor. Um, 1649 01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,560 you mentioned about the potential uh to 1650 01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,360 withdraw from the aquifers. 1651 01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:05,520 Um, 1652 01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:07,760 and looking at the the studies of the 1653 01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,320 aquifer that have been done by the RDN, 1654 01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,960 we see that our acryers are stressed. 1655 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:17,199 Uh, I think 216 is not um coming back up 1656 01:13:17,199 --> 01:13:20,320 as as quickly as as we would like it to. 1657 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:24,320 Um, but also the interconnectedness of 1658 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,239 the groundwater and the surface flow. 1659 01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:28,560 So, I want to make sure we are doing it 1660 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,239 responsibly. We just don't think that 1661 01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:32,800 the groundwater let's take it all. uh uh 1662 01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,120 because that will eventually also impact 1663 01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:36,719 the the the surface flow in the 1664 01:13:36,719 --> 01:13:40,239 Englishman. So do you still think the 1665 01:13:40,239 --> 01:13:43,440 aquifer is a viable option and not 1666 01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:44,800 impacting the base flow in the 1667 01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:48,239 Englishman? Um 1668 01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:50,800 and and 216 in your opinion is it is it 1669 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:56,800 healthy? Is it is it able to recharge as quickly as as we would like? So we 1670 01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,040 can use this as a viable option as a 1671 01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:05,520 ground water source. Um yes so yeah cl 1672 01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,000 qualify on that. So so um our 1673 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,159 groundwater hydraologists so water line 1674 01:14:10,159 --> 01:14:13,360 um they they evaluated the data and in 1675 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,880 their opinion that there's um there is 1676 01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,760 potential to help supplement um the 1677 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:20,960 community withdrawal but there isn't 1678 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:22,960 enough to provide all of the water needs 1679 01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:29,120 for the community. So there's there um there's appears to be at a high 1680 01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,840 level in terms of with the data that to 1681 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,960 be able to supplement but not to be able 1682 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,280 to provide there's not sufficient to be 1683 01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,080 able to just rely on the groundwater. So 1684 01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,400 >> right uh and just to clarify I think 1685 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:44,880 that withdrawal to supplement is 1686 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,520 expected in the summer months. Uh that's 1687 01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,520 when also the the river is more 1688 01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,840 stressed. uh and in my opinion I think 1689 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,520 even the acquers would be at the at 1690 01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,320 their lowest um so maybe there's a sweet 1691 01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,400 spot that we can you can get that number 1692 01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,080 right in terms of the aquifer like I 1693 01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:02,560 said without impacting the acryers also 1694 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:07,120 you know help the the surface flow uh so we're not impacting that okay thank 1695 01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:08,880 you welcome 1696 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,800 >> yeah I just mentioned as well councelor 1697 01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,440 Gorb recently at the RDN Erica put a 1698 01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:15,040 presentation to us anyways about the 1699 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,440 water confirming that Parksville was or 1700 01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:21,360 19 wells are using aer uh 216 1701 01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,560 and also but uh had other data 1702 01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,040 suggesting that our wells actually were 1703 01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,640 not being uh stressed actually they were 1704 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:33,760 um regular they hadn't uh dropped in 1705 01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,400 fact a couple had actually improved and 1706 01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,800 it's right in the report from Murray was 1707 01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,280 there as well with foracular 2 and6 I 1708 01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,040 just had pull up the stats anyways here 1709 01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,840 on that actually our spring wood 1710 01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,679 wellfield is actually doing Well, we're 1711 01:15:49,679 --> 01:15:51,840 not stressing because of climate change 1712 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,239 at this time. Uh, councelor Gren, go 1713 01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:54,880 ahead. 1714 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,800 >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And actually, 1715 01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,920 separate from my questions, uh, I am a 1716 01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:01,120 bit confused on some of this 1717 01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,760 terminology. Uh, when we speak about an 1718 01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:07,360 aquifer being stressed, uh, am I correct 1719 01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:09,840 that that actually refers to the, uh, 1720 01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:11,920 the number of straws, so to speak, that 1721 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,040 are permitted to be in that aquifer uh, 1722 01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:16,880 as opposed to the amount of water that's 1723 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:18,719 in the aquifer? It's just the potential 1724 01:16:18,719 --> 01:16:20,800 to draw from the aquifer as opposed to 1725 01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,120 the ability of the aquifer to supply 1726 01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,709 that. 1727 01:16:26,719 --> 01:16:27,600 » Yeah. Yeah. 1728 01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,440 >> I think it's it's a combination there 1729 01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:33,440 where um the term for an aquifer being 1730 01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:35,199 stressed. Again, I'm not a hydraologist 1731 01:16:35,199 --> 01:16:37,280 or hydro geologist either. My 1732 01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:39,440 understanding is that the the rate of 1733 01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:42,880 recovery of the aquifer level is is 1734 01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,440 declining or it's you know it's not 1735 01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:47,199 coming back as quickly as it used to 1736 01:16:47,199 --> 01:16:48,719 type thing. 1737 01:16:48,719 --> 01:16:51,840 My my understanding is since the um or 1738 01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:53,679 prior to the water treatment plant being 1739 01:16:53,679 --> 01:16:55,760 in place that the the groundwater usage 1740 01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,840 was higher than it is today and uh since 1741 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,800 that time there's more surface water 1742 01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:04,480 through the water treatment plant such 1743 01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:07,199 that the groundwater has recovered a 1744 01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,920 little bit better and uh such that 1745 01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,280 there's the uh water levels looking at 1746 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,760 the data that uh that we had for the 1747 01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,320 study and it's within I water lines 1748 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,719 appendix within the study. It shows sort 1749 01:17:20,719 --> 01:17:22,719 of increasing trends of of groundwater 1750 01:17:22,719 --> 01:17:25,679 levels in several of the uh the city's 1751 01:17:25,679 --> 01:17:27,199 well points 1752 01:17:27,199 --> 01:17:28,480 >> because that's how you could say that 1753 01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:30,560 the aquifer is both stressed and 1754 01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,159 recovering 1755 01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:34,159 >> because that's what it's I think 1756 01:17:34,159 --> 01:17:36,560 described as right. So so it's stressed 1757 01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:38,800 in that there are a lot of uh draws on 1758 01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,199 that aquifer. Uh there's a lot of 1759 01:17:41,199 --> 01:17:42,960 potential that could be using the 1760 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:44,320 aquifer. Not just the city of 1761 01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,800 Parksville, but a number of wells uh are 1762 01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:49,199 using that aquifer. Uh but the actual 1763 01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:50,960 overall trajectory of the aquifer is 1764 01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,040 that it's recovering. 1765 01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:54,000 >> Is that correct? 1766 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:55,600 >> I think we'd have to review it further. 1767 01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:56,800 Yeah. In this in 1768 01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:58,159 >> Okay. That's just what I've seen and 1769 01:17:58,159 --> 01:17:59,600 what I think the report is kind of 1770 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:00,640 indicating. Yep. 1771 01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,239 >> Maybe Murray wants to step in on that. 1772 01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:07,830 Yeah. 1773 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:14,390 Okay. 1774 01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,679 » So the uh the concept of aquifer stress 1775 01:18:17,679 --> 01:18:19,600 at least in how we treat it in our water 1776 01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:22,000 budget studies that we do in the RDN uh 1777 01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,400 is more of a mass balance thing. So it's 1778 01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:25,760 not looking at the number of straws in 1779 01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,040 the aquifer. It's looking at how much 1780 01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,960 water is withdrawn compared to how much 1781 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,840 water is is uh recharged to the aquifer 1782 01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:33,679 using lots of elaborate models that I 1783 01:18:33,679 --> 01:18:37,120 don't understand either. Um so the 1784 01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,120 concept of the stress level of the 1785 01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,400 aquifer and whether the aquifer is is 1786 01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:44,960 stable or recovering or diminishing 1787 01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,960 those are two different things. So one 1788 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,120 is based on a on a math balance and the 1789 01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:50,560 other one's based on a relatively 1790 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,199 long-term trend. And I think what you've 1791 01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:55,120 all said here is is really accurate in 1792 01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:58,320 216. It's a very heavily uh utilized 1793 01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,960 aquifer and it's it's highly stressed uh 1794 01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,440 from a mass balance perspective, but it 1795 01:19:03,440 --> 01:19:06,480 is recovering uh particularly locally in 1796 01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:08,640 the uh around Springwood because the 1797 01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,560 city hasn't been using that water for 5 1798 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,120 years at any great amount. 1799 01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,600 So, it's there's two two quite different 1800 01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,080 concepts there. 1801 01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:19,679 >> Yeah, thank you for that clarification. 1802 01:19:19,679 --> 01:19:20,719 I think it's pretty important to 1803 01:19:20,719 --> 01:19:23,120 understand because as much as possible 1804 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,760 to understand um because there's a 1805 01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:28,640 difference between uh I guess like 1806 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,640 having a bank account that has a lot of 1807 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,480 people doing withdrawals from the bank 1808 01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:33,920 account but that doesn't speak to 1809 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:34,960 whether the bank accounts being 1810 01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,120 replenished with cash or not. So, you 1811 01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:38,239 could say it's stressed and that there 1812 01:19:38,239 --> 01:19:40,960 are a lot of people with with debit 1813 01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:42,320 cards out there on that bank account, 1814 01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:45,280 but that doesn't speak to whether fully 1815 01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:46,800 whether there's enough in the bank 1816 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,440 account to supply all those those cards. 1817 01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:52,000 Um, so anyway, that was a little tangent 1818 01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:53,760 there. Thank you for clarifying. Thank 1819 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,120 you for that, Murray. Um I the I think 1820 01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,840 one of the uh overarching questions that 1821 01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:02,159 the community has on on this whole topic 1822 01:20:02,159 --> 01:20:06,000 is uh speaks to why are there so 1823 01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:07,760 frequent watering restrictions put in 1824 01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:09,920 place? Uh and they seem to kind of come 1825 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:13,520 more frequently than they used to. Um uh 1826 01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,920 maybe can you get into what the findings 1827 01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:18,080 are that where that would be attributed? 1828 01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:19,840 Is it and to what extent is it climate 1829 01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,480 change? To what extent is it population? 1830 01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:26,560 And um and on the population side, would 1831 01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,199 you say that uh the population of 1832 01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:32,080 Parksville has been increasing uh at a 1833 01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,840 higher or as expected or lower rate than 1834 01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:39,440 what the previous like I think 2011 plan 1835 01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:43,040 was uh expecting. Um so maybe you can 1836 01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:45,120 sort of circle around those topics. 1837 01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,310 Thank you. 1838 01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:51,760 Um yeah, I will I'll follow up on the on 1839 01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,239 the first first part of of the the 1840 01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:56,800 question there in terms of the um the 1841 01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,880 changes that we've been seeing. Um I I'm 1842 01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:02,400 not sure if we've got a copy of the 1843 01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:05,440 report up that could be be shown, but 1844 01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:07,920 there's um let me just double check the 1845 01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,110 uh 1846 01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:12,239 what [clears throat] page it's on, but 1847 01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:45,750 just give me one second. 1848 01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,440 Yeah. So, I um I think it's on page 6-4, 1849 01:21:49,440 --> 01:22:00,149 I think. 1850 01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:01,920 » Page of the PDF. 1851 01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,719 >> Yes. Uh, I'll see if I can find it. 1852 01:22:04,719 --> 01:22:06,639 Apologies for the uh the delay. I think 1853 01:22:06,639 --> 01:22:08,560 this would just be it's a it's a helpful 1854 01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,679 image to help explain what's going on. 1855 01:22:11,679 --> 01:22:35,189 Um, 1856 01:22:35,199 --> 01:22:38,639 Yeah. So, it's on it's paid. Uh 1857 01:22:38,639 --> 01:22:40,880 >> got the one there, Greg. 1858 01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,600 >> Um yeah, that one that one that one will 1859 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,600 work. 1860 01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,229 Um, 1861 01:22:50,239 --> 01:22:52,000 so, 1862 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:55,120 uh, actually 1863 01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:58,480 there should be another one. Um, is it 1864 01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:08,800 this one? Yeah, here we go. It's on it's figure 6-6. It's on page um 57, 1865 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:12,080 yeah, that one there. Um, 1866 01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,040 so, so this this is a a a graph. Um, oh, 1867 01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:18,480 uh, next one down. Yeah, that's it 1868 01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:20,639 there. Perfect. Thank you. So, thank 1869 01:23:20,639 --> 01:23:22,000 thanks for your patience and bringing 1870 01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:23,600 that up. It just helps with explaining 1871 01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:27,199 what's going on. Um, so this is a a 1872 01:23:27,199 --> 01:23:29,360 graph showing flow in the Englishman 1873 01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:31,920 River. um 1874 01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:36,239 over with the um the orange the orange 1875 01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:40,239 line um being sort of conditions between 1876 01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:44,320 2007 and 2015 and the green line being 1877 01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:48,880 conditions between uh uh 2016 and now. 1878 01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:50,480 So 1879 01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:55,920 roughly 10ear periods. And um the down 1880 01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,960 at the bottom of the chart, you can see 1881 01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,679 those two areas that are highlighted um 1882 01:24:01,679 --> 01:24:06,639 in in orange and in green and the the 1883 01:24:06,639 --> 01:24:11,040 dashed line below those it is showing 1884 01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:13,920 the what the base flow in the river. So 1885 01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:15,840 this is the average. So what the base 1886 01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,400 flow in the river would be if there 1887 01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,760 weren't releases from the dam. um and 1888 01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:28,000 the area between those two. Um so that orange area and the green area is 1889 01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:30,560 representing the volume of storage that 1890 01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:32,800 is being released from the dam over 1891 01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:34,719 time. And so there's a couple of things 1892 01:24:34,719 --> 01:24:42,320 going on. Um one is the over time the the 1893 01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:44,639 rate that the water level is dropping in 1894 01:24:44,639 --> 01:24:46,800 the spring isn't really changing very 1895 01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:49,120 much, but it's happening sooner in the 1896 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,880 year. Um and and the second is that the 1897 01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,760 base flow the ultimate low point is also 1898 01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:58,800 getting lower. Um so so the amount of 1899 01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:02,000 water that's being released from the dam 1900 01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:06,239 to support um both the environmental 1901 01:25:06,239 --> 01:25:08,880 flow needs as well as like well the 1902 01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:10,880 environmental flow needs is increasing 1903 01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:13,760 um over time and then on top of that 1904 01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,080 there are the uh the community 1905 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:26,639 withdrawals because that um the line sh the solid line shown is the would be the flow in the like 1906 01:25:26,639 --> 01:25:28,400 just upstream of the intake, right? So, 1907 01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:29,840 just before the water gets withdrawn. 1908 01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:31,199 So, that that includes both the 1909 01:25:31,199 --> 01:25:34,400 community withdrawal and the the uh the 1910 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:38,560 EFN. Um yeah, so there's there's um 1911 01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,719 there is the data is showing there's ch 1912 01:25:40,719 --> 01:25:46,880 it's changing um and there like there are a number of reasons for that. 1913 01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:48,639 There's there are climate change reasons 1914 01:25:48,639 --> 01:25:51,760 for that. Um there are increased 1915 01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,040 um some increase in demand over time um 1916 01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:57,360 because of the warmer years and warmer 1917 01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,920 summers higher higher demand for 1918 01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:02,880 irrigation. Um as well as there have 1919 01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:06,480 been like like the the ways that the 1920 01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:08,320 watershed is used in terms of the land 1921 01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,199 use like does have impact on on flows. 1922 01:26:11,199 --> 01:26:12,800 Um it's hard to quantify that. It's 1923 01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:14,080 really difficult to quantify it but 1924 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:16,239 there are there there can there can be 1925 01:26:16,239 --> 01:26:19,199 changes. So things are changing and and 1926 01:26:19,199 --> 01:26:21,760 that's the data is showing that there 1927 01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:23,600 have been significant changes in the 1928 01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:25,600 water even in a fairly short amount of 1929 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:27,920 time over the last 20 years um in terms 1930 01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,560 of the the volume of water that's now 1931 01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:32,960 required to support both the 1932 01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:36,080 environmental flow need and there's only 1933 01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:37,600 like the bank account account 1934 01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,280 analogology analogy there's there's $7 1935 01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:43,360 million [laughter] 1936 01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:46,960 in in the bank account um and and the 1937 01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:48,639 withdrawals are getting higher. So, it's 1938 01:26:48,639 --> 01:26:50,639 just it we're like the amount of water 1939 01:26:50,639 --> 01:26:53,760 that's available is at the dam. Um so, 1940 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:58,159 in order to um to reduce the amount of 1941 01:26:58,159 --> 01:27:00,480 withdrawals, both the community demand 1942 01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:02,639 and and the environmental flow need um 1943 01:27:02,639 --> 01:27:04,960 have both been reduced like need to be 1944 01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:06,639 reduced in order to sort of conserve 1945 01:27:06,639 --> 01:27:09,360 that that storage for the long over the 1946 01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:11,280 longer period because it is you can also 1947 01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,159 see how much longer the the releases are 1948 01:27:14,159 --> 01:27:16,800 from the down as well. Yeah. 1949 01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:17,920 >> So, there's a second part of that 1950 01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:19,120 question. Thank you. As well that maybe 1951 01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:21,199 I'll let you get to, but before uh that 1952 01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:23,679 part, it could be other things I didn't 1953 01:27:23,679 --> 01:27:25,440 mention as well, like maybe like 1954 01:27:25,440 --> 01:27:28,159 forestry practices upstream or uh 1955 01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:31,360 changes in the land um ge geographically 1956 01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:32,639 or whatever that the water is not 1957 01:27:32,639 --> 01:27:34,719 necessarily making its way down where it 1958 01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:38,400 used to uh hydrogeeology or whatever. Um 1959 01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:39,920 so there are a number of factors that 1960 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,560 could affect that. Um but then it does 1961 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:47,840 raise the question around whether the um provincial legislation sort of 1962 01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:50,239 the agreement around the water license 1963 01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:53,440 uh is still appropriate given uh where 1964 01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:54,880 you know things have changed since that 1965 01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,000 was put in place. Uh and on that as well 1966 01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,800 is that the the flow requirement that 1967 01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,600 does trigger the um the need to put in 1968 01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:11,679 watering restrictions that gauge um is measuring the post uh human use 1969 01:28:11,679 --> 01:28:13,679 number. Right? So the gauge is past the 1970 01:28:13,679 --> 01:28:16,000 intake but we have to provide but the 1971 01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,239 flow rate that we're expected to provide 1972 01:28:18,239 --> 01:28:21,840 based on the provincial uh operating 1973 01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:25,440 licenses that happens uh that amount 1974 01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:29,760 includes the human use and the EFN right 1975 01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:30,000 >> um 1976 01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:31,760 >> like what is the what is the number that 1977 01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,199 we have to provide for the habitat? 1978 01:28:35,199 --> 01:28:38,639 >> Yeah. So, so currently the the um based 1979 01:28:38,639 --> 01:28:41,840 on ongoing conversations with with the 1980 01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:47,440 regulator um with First Nation, there's an ag there's an agreement right 1981 01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:51,120 now on a on a temporary basis to 1982 01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:54,880 establish the the flow downstream of the 1983 01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:56,800 intake. So, the flow in the river from 1984 01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:59,120 the intake to the ocean where the gauge 1985 01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:01,040 is located is is 1 cubic meter per 1986 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,800 second. Um and and so the flow upstream 1987 01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:08,239 of the intake is 1 meter per second plus 1988 01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:10,159 whatever the community is using at the 1989 01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:15,120 time. Um and so so it it's that one 1990 01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:16,719 cubic meter per second doesn't include 1991 01:29:16,719 --> 01:29:19,199 the community withdrawal. It's it's in 1992 01:29:19,199 --> 01:29:21,440 addition to um the community withdrawal 1993 01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:22,719 or the community withdrawal is in 1994 01:29:22,719 --> 01:29:23,920 addition to that, I guess, is maybe 1995 01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,159 another way of of putting it. the amount 1996 01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:27,760 that you're having that's being released 1997 01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:31,360 from the dam um needs to both provide 1998 01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,960 the community withdrawal as well as 1999 01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:36,639 maintain one cubic meter per second. 2000 01:29:36,639 --> 01:29:38,960 It's not it's not necessarily it's not 2001 01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,960 releasing the full 1 cubic meter per 2002 01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:42,800 second. There is a contribution from the 2003 01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:44,480 base flows in the river that are adding 2004 01:29:44,480 --> 01:29:45,600 to that 2005 01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:49,120 >> but it's um the the measurement point in 2006 01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:50,400 that 1 cubic meter per second. 2007 01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:51,760 >> Yeah. I'm talking about the point at 2008 01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:52,960 which it's measured. 2009 01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,840 >> Yeah. uh that being one cubic meter per 2010 01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,800 second but that one cubic meter per 2011 01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:00,159 second sorry are you saying that is 2012 01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:02,800 including both uses or just the EFN 2013 01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:03,760 >> just the EFN 2014 01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:05,440 >> cuz uh somewhere else I think it was in 2015 01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:07,920 the report I think it was more around 7 2016 01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:09,760 to 0.9 2017 01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:14,320 uh and then also the uh if we look back 2018 01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:16,000 the the graph that councelor Wood 2019 01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,400 provided is that in fact prior to the 2020 01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:20,800 dam the flow rates were much lower than 2021 01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:23,440 even that. So uh and I'm not a 2022 01:30:23,440 --> 01:30:24,880 biologist. I know you're not a biologist 2023 01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,280 either, but I do understand that uh 2024 01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:29,520 there is a certain level of uh dynamics 2025 01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:34,960 to a river that are natural and that are healthy for habitat uh from the 2026 01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,440 ecologists that I do speak to. So that 2027 01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:40,000 having a continuous flat flow rate 2028 01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:41,520 throughout the whole year may not 2029 01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,880 actually be the the optimal uh habitat 2030 01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:48,000 creating flow rate. Um but that may be 2031 01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:49,920 the assumption that is being like 2032 01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,880 current that when that deal was put in 2033 01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:56,080 place low those years ago uh that may 2034 01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:57,760 have been the science of the time but is 2035 01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,159 that still the science? So that's where 2036 01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:02,000 I'm saying, and this may be beyond your 2037 01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,880 purview, but um it seems to me that we 2038 01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:08,159 may be able to um the fact that the 2039 01:31:08,159 --> 01:31:09,199 watering restrictions and the 2040 01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:10,480 reliability that this whole report 2041 01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:14,320 hinges on is potentially based on the 2042 01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:16,080 water license with the province that 2043 01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:17,840 itself, and I know staff is looking into 2044 01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:20,000 this, may need to be looked at as a way 2045 01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,320 to actually increase the reliability if 2046 01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,400 we don't have to put in stage 4 watering 2047 01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:26,719 restrictions because it's not due to the 2048 01:31:26,719 --> 01:31:28,880 fact that that's the the watering 2049 01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,040 restrictions aren't based on the the the 2050 01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:32,639 use of the community that much as they 2051 01:31:32,639 --> 01:31:35,280 are based on the flow in the river. So, 2052 01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,440 and that water license that the the 2053 01:31:37,440 --> 01:31:40,080 letter of the law uh that sort of 2054 01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:41,920 bureaucratic requirement that may or may 2055 01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:44,080 not be current science. I don't know 2056 01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,880 this is some ponderings [laughter] and 2057 01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:48,639 maybe beyond your purview. 2058 01:31:48,639 --> 01:31:50,159 >> Um 2059 01:31:50,159 --> 01:31:52,320 I can I'll provide some comments on it u 2060 01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:56,400 from from the hydraology side. Um so the 2061 01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:58,400 and and sort of based on some of the 2062 01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:00,320 previous work that that has been done 2063 01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:04,639 and I've been involved with um when so 2064 01:32:04,639 --> 01:32:06,480 the the.7 2065 01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:08,960 um cubic meters per second that's been 2066 01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:10,239 established as the critical 2067 01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:12,560 environmental flow need. So that's 2068 01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:15,120 essentially it's been established that a 2069 01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:18,320 flow below that rate will will 2070 01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:21,920 incrementally start to cause uh impacts 2071 01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:25,040 to to the habitat. Um so it would kind 2072 01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:29,679 of go from it being um uh fair, let's 2073 01:32:29,679 --> 01:32:35,280 say, to poor um on a on a scale. Um the 2074 01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:38,159 so the the one cubic meter per sec. So, 2075 01:32:38,159 --> 01:32:41,760 and then that was established by DFO 2076 01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,639 back in the '9s when uh the dam was 2077 01:32:44,639 --> 01:32:46,639 first constructed. 2078 01:32:46,639 --> 01:32:56,080 There was a study done as part of the construction for the new intake that did um habitat simulation modeling 2079 01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:57,920 uh for the reach of the river from the 2080 01:32:57,920 --> 01:32:59,840 intake to the ocean. And essentially 2081 01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:01,679 what that's looking at is what's the 2082 01:33:01,679 --> 01:33:05,920 what is the um value of that habitat 2083 01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:08,880 from a from a a habit productivity 2084 01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:13,520 perspective um versus the flow and and 2085 01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:15,440 it's kind of like a hockey stick. It's 2086 01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:18,639 it and and interestingly the modeling 2087 01:33:18,639 --> 01:33:21,440 was showing that 7 is about right um in 2088 01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:23,679 terms of that critical point where that 2089 01:33:23,679 --> 01:33:26,639 the the the value of the habitat um for 2090 01:33:26,639 --> 01:33:28,159 the different fish species really starts 2091 01:33:28,159 --> 01:33:33,040 to drop off. The only one that isn't um 2092 01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:36,000 is is the PAR which are sort of that 2093 01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:39,280 intermediate stage um of of the fish and 2094 01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:40,880 it's really more of a kind of a straight 2095 01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:42,880 line. So like for them it's sort of like 2096 01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:44,639 more flow is better, right? And so it's 2097 01:33:44,639 --> 01:33:46,639 trying to find that happy balance of of 2098 01:33:46,639 --> 01:33:50,320 what is um what's appropriate and based 2099 01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:54,000 on conversations um with the regulators 2100 01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:55,840 and it's not it's not just the 2101 01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,800 regulatory biologist, it's also the the 2102 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:00,960 fisheries biologists at at the province 2103 01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,880 and at DFO. Um there's been agreement 2104 01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:06,960 that that one cubic meter every second 2105 01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:10,560 is is a suitable target. Um, the 2106 01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:12,239 original 2107 01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:16,159 EFN was established based on a policy. I 2108 01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:17,840 I'm not sure of the status of that 2109 01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:20,719 policy anymore, but it used to be based 2110 01:34:20,719 --> 01:34:24,000 on a metric that was 10% of the mean 2111 01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,560 annual flow in the river is what the 2112 01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:29,280 flow should be. and and that was based 2113 01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:32,239 on on some some studies that have been 2114 01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:35,920 done across BC and in the states around 2115 01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:37,679 looking at what a sort of suitable 2116 01:34:37,679 --> 01:34:39,840 target should be and that was what that 2117 01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,480 was established at. Um I can't remember 2118 01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:44,159 the number off the top of my head but I 2119 01:34:44,159 --> 01:34:47,199 believe it was about 1.2 was what was 2120 01:34:47,199 --> 01:34:49,520 originally established. Um so just in 2121 01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:52,239 terms of like that the new one is 2122 01:34:52,239 --> 01:34:54,880 actually a little bit below that now. Um 2123 01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:58,480 and so yeah, so it's it and also based 2124 01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:00,480 on that habitat simulation modeling 1 2125 01:35:00,480 --> 01:35:04,400 cubic meter per second uh is a 2126 01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,600 reasonable target to provide 2127 01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:10,639 um reasonable habitat function in the 2128 01:35:10,639 --> 01:35:14,719 river but granted it is higher than what 2129 01:35:14,719 --> 01:35:16,400 used to be there before in the natural 2130 01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:19,280 system. Yeah. And but I can't get into 2131 01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:22,159 sort of the benefits of that both sort 2132 01:35:22,159 --> 01:35:24,400 of locally for the watershed but also 2133 01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:25,840 regionally because it's sort of there's 2134 01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:27,760 both of those kind of two two components 2135 01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:28,159 to that. 2136 01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:30,719 >> Okay. C council I'm going to um we're 2137 01:35:30,719 --> 01:35:33,280 striving I I'll be striving to adjourn 2138 01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:36,320 by 12:30 but at that time I want time 2139 01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,719 anyways to make the recommendations as 2140 01:35:38,719 --> 01:35:40,719 well. I'm going to take a couple more 2141 01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:42,880 questions but please keep it brief if 2142 01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:44,480 you can. Councelor P has had his hand 2143 01:35:44,480 --> 01:35:50,400 up. Councelor Fra, Councelor Bill, and and councelor Martin. Okay, go. I'll 2144 01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:52,880 try to keep mine quick. I just wanted to 2145 01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:54,400 know about the spillover of the dam. If 2146 01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:55,760 you have any information that we can see 2147 01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:58,239 like this where it shows how frequently, 2148 01:35:58,239 --> 01:35:59,760 you know, what time periods we've had 2149 01:35:59,760 --> 01:36:01,440 that spillover. So, if we're considering 2150 01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:03,679 raising the dam, you know, I'd like to 2151 01:36:03,679 --> 01:36:05,360 know when is that opportunity and how 2152 01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:07,840 much opportunity are we looking at. 2153 01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:10,159 >> Um, yeah. So, I think if we go back to 2154 01:36:10,159 --> 01:36:12,000 the previous slide, it has the water 2155 01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,719 levels over time. Um 2156 01:36:14,719 --> 01:36:19,280 so this is a short um uh so the so the 2157 01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:23,199 orange um the orange and the green lines 2158 01:36:23,199 --> 01:36:26,239 are also showing like the median water 2159 01:36:26,239 --> 01:36:28,239 levels in the reservoir and when the 2160 01:36:28,239 --> 01:36:29,920 reservoir is full at the top of the 2161 01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:31,520 graph there that's when it's filling. 2162 01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,880 though in most years um it does fill but 2163 01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:37,760 there are there are some years where it 2164 01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:40,400 hasn't and that's that sort of gray dash 2165 01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:42,880 line along the bottom that's the minimum 2166 01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:44,800 lake level that's ever that's been 2167 01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:47,280 recorded on that specific day. So it's 2168 01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:47,600 not 2169 01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:49,040 >> does this have a time frame associated 2170 01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,760 with it? Like what are we 2171 01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:53,440 >> Yeah. 2172 01:36:53,440 --> 01:36:58,400 So the the the lower gray dash line 2173 01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:01,520 >> Yeah. is is the minimum water level. And 2174 01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:03,440 so there have been there have been years 2175 01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:05,280 in the historical record where the lake 2176 01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:07,520 hasn't refilled because of limitations 2177 01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:09,760 in the inflow. And those would really be 2178 01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:12,320 what is what would drive the reliability 2179 01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:15,280 for the system. Um so on average, yeah, 2180 01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:17,520 there's there there's sufficient there 2181 01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:21,440 is sufficient flow. Um but it's those 2182 01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:24,239 year-over-year drought conditions where 2183 01:37:24,239 --> 01:37:27,440 it wouldn't refill or may not refill. Do 2184 01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:29,679 we have any idea how much spillover 2185 01:37:29,679 --> 01:37:31,280 we're talking about there too? Because 2186 01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:32,880 if it's just reaching the top, it could, 2187 01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:35,040 you know, we call it spillover, but with 2188 01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:37,040 barely any versus it's spilling over a 2189 01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:37,600 ton. 2190 01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:41,360 >> Yeah. So the um 2191 01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:44,320 again, I'm just going from from memory 2192 01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:47,440 from from work, but the so the the total 2193 01:37:47,440 --> 01:37:49,679 volume is about nine 9 million cubic 2194 01:37:49,679 --> 01:37:52,159 meters. So there's 7 million cubic 2195 01:37:52,159 --> 01:37:54,400 meters of active storage and there's two 2196 01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:58,000 million cubic meters of of emergency 2197 01:37:58,000 --> 01:37:59,199 storage and the reason why it's 2198 01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:00,880 emergency storage is because it has a 2199 01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:02,400 limited amount of flow that can be 2200 01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:03,600 released and it doesn't meet the 2201 01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:05,679 environmental flow need target. Um so 2202 01:38:05,679 --> 01:38:07,760 there's 9 million cubic meters of total 2203 01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:10,560 storage. The average inflow on an annual 2204 01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:12,880 basis to the Aerosmith wershed and this 2205 01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:15,119 is based on data like before the dam was 2206 01:38:15,119 --> 01:38:18,480 constructed. Um, so that's in the 90s I 2207 01:38:18,480 --> 01:38:23,280 believe was in around 12 to 14. So, so 2208 01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:25,440 it's a fairly like that 9 million is a 2209 01:38:25,440 --> 01:38:29,199 pretty large percentage of the the just 2210 01:38:29,199 --> 01:38:31,840 the the average. So there's there's that 2211 01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:35,119 extra say like 2212 01:38:35,119 --> 01:38:38,639 anywhere from four to six million extra 2213 01:38:38,639 --> 01:38:40,800 on on average in a in a year, but that's 2214 01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:44,480 the average. Yeah. Okay. Councelor Bill 2215 01:38:44,480 --> 01:38:46,000 and then councelor Martin. 2216 01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:47,840 >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you 2217 01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:50,000 again. Uh, I guess I'm going to go back 2218 01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,040 to uh, Councelor Gore's sweet spot idea. 2219 01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:54,800 And I guess what I'm hoping for, in 2220 01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:57,520 fact, what I am hoping for is that we 2221 01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:01,119 could eventually end up with uh upland 2222 01:39:01,119 --> 01:39:05,600 storage that will be um sufficient to 2223 01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:09,119 provide the EFN as well as additional 2224 01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:11,920 waters for the community for a longer 2225 01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,040 period than we have allowing for even no 2226 01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:19,440 snowpack but uh longer drought etc. 2227 01:39:19,440 --> 01:39:25,760 as well as um looking at our aquifer and 2228 01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:31,280 one of the notions in our OCP is that we would be a sustainable city. So 2229 01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:33,440 I part of that I think for me means that 2230 01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:34,960 we're not actually going to other 2231 01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:36,719 aquifers that we're doing everything 2232 01:39:36,719 --> 01:39:38,960 that we can to improve the health of the 2233 01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,840 aquifer that we have and I don't know if 2234 01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:44,320 that uh if much of that would be within 2235 01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:47,119 phase two if it was with your company. 2236 01:39:47,119 --> 01:39:49,199 uh it also may be things that we can be 2237 01:39:49,199 --> 01:39:51,440 doing you know at the city level but I 2238 01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:52,960 do believe that there's more that we 2239 01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:55,679 could be doing but nonetheless uh 2240 01:39:55,679 --> 01:39:58,639 looking at that upland storage and 2241 01:39:58,639 --> 01:40:02,080 providing more water for the community 2242 01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:05,520 should also allow the aquifer to further 2243 01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:07,679 recharge as well as additional 2244 01:40:07,679 --> 01:40:10,080 conservation methods and I I do think 2245 01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:11,840 that we need to continue to look at 2246 01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:13,920 conservation and a couple of points that 2247 01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,800 councelor Gren has made made around you 2248 01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,199 values and looking going forward in 10, 2249 01:40:19,199 --> 01:40:21,600 20, 30 years, you know, what does what 2250 01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:24,080 does the ideal yard look like? I don't 2251 01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:27,119 know. But is that something that um you 2252 01:40:27,119 --> 01:40:28,719 know, having those two parts come 2253 01:40:28,719 --> 01:40:31,920 together of both upland storage for the 2254 01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:35,119 health of the river and also allowing 2255 01:40:35,119 --> 01:40:38,480 for uh a healthier aquifer without 2256 01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:41,280 having to go outside the one that we're 2257 01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:44,629 using now? 2258 01:40:44,639 --> 01:40:47,760 Um did you want to provide comment on 2259 01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:49,360 that first side? 2260 01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:55,600 >> Sure. Yeah. Um yeah, at this point we're looking at optimizing the existing 2261 01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:58,000 groundwater usage within the existing 2262 01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:00,639 license volume available. 2263 01:41:00,639 --> 01:41:03,600 Um so yeah for the for the long term if 2264 01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:05,520 there is a new source storage water 2265 01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:11,199 source uh provided or constructed then the groundwater use would would 2266 01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:13,679 probably stay similar as it is today and 2267 01:41:13,679 --> 01:41:17,119 if we're in a sort of inclining trend or 2268 01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:18,639 improving to be more healthy then 2269 01:41:18,639 --> 01:41:22,080 hopefully that would continue. 2270 01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:23,440 Okay, great. 2271 01:41:23,440 --> 01:41:26,239 >> And my understanding is that um that 2272 01:41:26,239 --> 01:41:27,840 some of the steps that could be taken 2273 01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:29,840 within the city both on city land as 2274 01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:32,080 well on private land could in fact 2275 01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:34,480 increase the amount of groundwater that 2276 01:41:34,480 --> 01:41:36,639 is you know water rainwater that is 2277 01:41:36,639 --> 01:41:38,639 going into the ground and that in turn 2278 01:41:38,639 --> 01:41:41,199 should also improve the health of local 2279 01:41:41,199 --> 01:41:43,440 streams and ultimately get to the river 2280 01:41:43,440 --> 01:41:46,080 as well. Would it not? 2281 01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:48,239 >> Council. Yeah, absolutely. any um 2282 01:41:48,239 --> 01:41:50,239 further storm water storm water 2283 01:41:50,239 --> 01:41:52,080 management practices that would 2284 01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:54,960 encourage infiltration are definitely of 2285 01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:57,199 benefit. And uh and of course the water 2286 01:41:57,199 --> 01:42:01,040 conservation in itself to uh to sort of 2287 01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:03,280 beef up your existing water conservation 2288 01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:06,000 program to to use less water during the 2289 01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:08,560 summer months and and allow for it to to 2290 01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:10,320 exist where it is. 2291 01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:13,040 >> Thank you, Councelor Martin. Go ahead. 2292 01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:15,920 >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I I really uh 2293 01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:17,679 would like to see if you would give us 2294 01:42:17,679 --> 01:42:20,560 say A, B, or C. What would be the most 2295 01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:22,239 not necessarily the cheapest, the most 2296 01:42:22,239 --> 01:42:25,520 practical long-term solution to this? 2297 01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,280 Because I was hoping today that we would 2298 01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:29,199 have that because you're the 2299 01:42:29,199 --> 01:42:31,840 professionals that know, you've given us 2300 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:34,159 a report, but a decision to understand 2301 01:42:34,159 --> 01:42:36,880 what would be best for us. And like 2302 01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:38,560 counselor Frazz was saying, not 2303 01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:41,840 necessarily the, you know, the cheapest, 2304 01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:44,159 but the the wisest for long term because 2305 01:42:44,159 --> 01:42:46,400 we're going a long term for this. So, do 2306 01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:48,080 you have any solutions that you can give 2307 01:42:48,080 --> 01:42:52,560 us? What should we do? Really, 2308 01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:55,440 the practical thing, smart thing, 2309 01:42:55,440 --> 01:42:57,920 because that's what I would like. 2310 01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,080 >> Well, you know, a report. This is a big 2311 01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:02,080 report and you understand it way more 2312 01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:04,239 than any one of us. So what what would 2313 01:43:04,239 --> 01:43:08,159 you do if you were making that decision? 2314 01:43:08,159 --> 01:43:09,600 >> What would you do? 2315 01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:13,119 >> Thank Martin. Um 2316 01:43:13,119 --> 01:43:15,061 so 2317 01:43:15,061 --> 01:43:15,760 [snorts] 2318 01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:19,760 one of the challenges is that 2319 01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:21,520 unfortunately there's not kind of a 2320 01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:24,480 clear solution in the in the level of 2321 01:43:24,480 --> 01:43:28,880 the analysis that was done. Um and so I 2322 01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:32,320 think in terms of the decision for me if 2323 01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:34,880 it was if it was my decision to be 2324 01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:37,840 making um would be to kind of go to that 2325 01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:39,760 next step of provide like of of 2326 01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:43,679 evaluating the the um options that have 2327 01:43:43,679 --> 01:43:45,280 been identified in this preliminary 2328 01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:48,320 study um in in a bit more detail. It's 2329 01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:50,239 not it's not there isn't sort of a clear 2330 01:43:50,239 --> 01:43:52,880 direction at this at this at this point 2331 01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:57,440 um because of the um the at the level of 2332 01:43:57,440 --> 01:44:01,679 which this study was was preliminary to 2333 01:44:01,679 --> 01:44:03,520 kind of set the next stage for that 2334 01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,560 phase two was to sort of help with 2335 01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:09,440 firstly um sort of establishing how much 2336 01:44:09,440 --> 01:44:12,560 water is needed um and then and then 2337 01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:15,520 secondly start to look at some options 2338 01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:18,000 but there's there's more work needed to 2339 01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:21,119 be able to to make that final decision. 2340 01:44:21,119 --> 01:44:24,000 >> So, you can't give us 2341 01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:25,840 options. Okay. 2342 01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:28,320 >> Because I know our our citizens are are 2343 01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:30,639 concerned and we are and we want to make 2344 01:44:30,639 --> 01:44:32,159 sure we're doing the wisest thing. 2345 01:44:32,159 --> 01:44:33,440 That's all. 2346 01:44:33,440 --> 01:44:36,320 >> So, we have to Okay. Thank you. 2347 01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:38,320 >> Okay. Thank you. That's I'm going to 2348 01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:40,480 have to wrap it up. Um these people 2349 01:44:40,480 --> 01:44:41,920 probably have other work to go back to 2350 01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:44,480 their job, but um council I'm going to 2351 01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:46,320 be looking for um a recommendation 2352 01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:50,159 resolution anyways um to just my my 2353 01:44:50,159 --> 01:44:51,920 belief is we've had a lot of good 2354 01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:53,360 comments and there's a lot of 2355 01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:55,440 understanding anyways of what is 2356 01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:57,920 possible and I understand phase two 2357 01:44:57,920 --> 01:44:59,280 there was a list of things that they 2358 01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:01,280 could possibly look at would be looking 2359 01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:04,480 direction but I'm I'm suggesting at this 2360 01:45:04,480 --> 01:45:07,520 particular time that we have KWL look at 2361 01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:10,560 the possibilities as We spoke earlier of 2362 01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,199 just the sidestream storage option which 2363 01:45:13,199 --> 01:45:15,440 then once we have that question answered 2364 01:45:15,440 --> 01:45:18,719 then there may be some money left over. 2365 01:45:18,719 --> 01:45:21,040 Then then we look at what we do with 2366 01:45:21,040 --> 01:45:22,960 that information. But we have to have 2367 01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:26,080 that as to say that if we had sidestream 2368 01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:28,239 storage with reservoir capacity is going 2369 01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:31,119 to in charge um protect or improve our 2370 01:45:31,119 --> 01:45:33,040 acryers which is one of our goals as 2371 01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:35,360 well as council has mentioned which is 2372 01:45:35,360 --> 01:45:37,760 good. At the same time, it may delay us 2373 01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:39,040 actually have to look for more 2374 01:45:39,040 --> 01:45:41,520 groundwater sources at at the same time. 2375 01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:43,920 I think we have to have that question 2376 01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:45,920 answered first before we make the 2377 01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,159 decisions before we go anywhere further. 2378 01:45:48,159 --> 01:45:50,960 And I I would suggest if we I could make 2379 01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:53,920 that recommendation as to continuing on 2380 01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:57,760 with phase two as a phased approach and 2381 01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:00,080 uh with uh uh phase two would just 2382 01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,080 consist of that and then that would be 2383 01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:03,280 brought back to council with that 2384 01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:05,440 information and then we say okay where 2385 01:46:05,440 --> 01:46:07,840 are we going to either make this happen 2386 01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:09,440 and then we make the recommendations 2387 01:46:09,440 --> 01:46:12,880 back. Do I have approval for councel to 2388 01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:18,149 second that motion? 2389 01:46:18,159 --> 01:46:22,870 Um 2390 01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,280 yeah yeah yeah for recommendation would 2391 01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:28,159 be that uh the KWL look into the options 2392 01:46:28,159 --> 01:46:32,400 for the sid stream of the uh excess uh 2393 01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:36,000 fall and winter rains to uh provide a 2394 01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:38,239 phased approach for reservoirs in the 2395 01:46:38,239 --> 01:46:40,400 vicinity of Parksville instead of up on 2396 01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:42,480 the highlands. possibly considering 2397 01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:44,960 looking at industrial land uh that we 2398 01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:47,679 have in our industrial park as a portion 2399 01:46:47,679 --> 01:46:50,560 of it as well as mosaic lands which is 2400 01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:52,320 the next coastal because we don't have 2401 01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:53,920 ground lands here we have privately 2402 01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:55,840 owned lands so just looking at those 2403 01:46:55,840 --> 01:46:57,840 options first 2404 01:46:57,840 --> 01:46:59,199 >> second it 2405 01:46:59,199 --> 01:47:02,000 >> thank you council press any 2406 01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:03,840 >> this is committ so this recommendation 2407 01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:04,880 to council 2408 01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:07,760 >> is this just recommendation from cootw 2409 01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:10,560 then we'll go to councel 2410 01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:12,960 Okay. Um 2411 01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,199 Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. Uh on the motion 2412 01:47:15,199 --> 01:47:17,280 on the floor. Thank you. 2413 01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:18,639 >> Yeah. Yes. Go ahead, council. 2414 01:47:18,639 --> 01:47:23,040 >> Oh, thank you. I'm just wondering if um 2415 01:47:23,040 --> 01:47:25,440 is it also make some sense to perhaps 2416 01:47:25,440 --> 01:47:28,560 have an alternate recommendation so that 2417 01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:31,040 if this one is not supported that 2418 01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:32,560 there's something else that would come 2419 01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:35,679 forward or are we going to be sort of 2420 01:47:35,679 --> 01:47:38,239 prevoting on the recommendation so that 2421 01:47:38,239 --> 01:47:40,400 then we have a motion to take to the 2422 01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:42,639 actual meeting. I'm sorry I'm not clear 2423 01:47:42,639 --> 01:47:44,880 on that. I I agree and having made that 2424 01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:48,080 motion, I I think KW understands that 2425 01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:50,000 that's what I'm looking for. As council 2426 01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:52,639 Martin says, we want a solution and 2427 01:47:52,639 --> 01:47:54,480 councelor Martin's right. So we want 2428 01:47:54,480 --> 01:47:56,800 your your solution that would include 2429 01:47:56,800 --> 01:47:59,760 that and if the side storage 2430 01:47:59,760 --> 01:48:01,520 doesn't pan out to be looking like a 2431 01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:02,960 good suggestion. And I think KWL is 2432 01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:05,760 going to come back and said however 2433 01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:08,639 speaking to the solution we recommend 2434 01:48:08,639 --> 01:48:11,360 this and and I I think you understand 2435 01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:12,639 that's what we're looking at correct is 2436 01:48:12,639 --> 01:48:15,119 that guys you know 2437 01:48:15,119 --> 01:48:17,360 >> so quick followup one thing that I heard 2438 01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:19,760 earlier and correct me if I'm wrong is 2439 01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:22,960 that it would be more likely to access 2440 01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:25,440 uh provincial or federal funding if we 2441 01:48:25,440 --> 01:48:28,239 were going with a one of the other 2442 01:48:28,239 --> 01:48:30,320 options that would look at the creation 2443 01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:33,199 of upland storage because that in fact 2444 01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:35,840 directly affects then the environmental 2445 01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:39,360 flow needs and involves DFO etc. Now did 2446 01:48:39,360 --> 01:48:42,159 I misunder understand that or was that 2447 01:48:42,159 --> 01:48:43,280 correct? 2448 01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:45,440 >> I I think that's a possibility but 2449 01:48:45,440 --> 01:48:47,199 that's exactly what it is. It's a 2450 01:48:47,199 --> 01:48:49,520 possibility that you may get provincial 2451 01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:53,520 um uh help on that which is actually was 2452 01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:55,119 well I can't comment further because it 2453 01:48:55,119 --> 01:48:59,840 was in camera but um uh on another uh 2454 01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:03,600 Aerosmith uh meeting the AWS meeting 2455 01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:06,080 previous so it's a possibility you're 2456 01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:08,000 right councelor Bill councelor Fras go 2457 01:49:08,000 --> 01:49:08,639 ahead 2458 01:49:08,639 --> 01:49:10,000 >> okay just can I speak on this as a 2459 01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:11,760 seconder I think where we're at right 2460 01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:14,639 now as a committee to hold that this you 2461 01:49:14,639 --> 01:49:16,719 know support this motion because is 2462 01:49:16,719 --> 01:49:18,719 looking at an option for it. And since 2463 01:49:18,719 --> 01:49:20,560 it wasn't part of the report for us to 2464 01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:22,000 then be able to pick through where we're 2465 01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:24,159 going to go, I I going to have to have 2466 01:49:24,159 --> 01:49:25,840 more information on to where does that 2467 01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:27,679 weigh into it. When I look at all these 2468 01:49:27,679 --> 01:49:29,600 options and try to think long term, I 2469 01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:30,800 think there's going to be more than one 2470 01:49:30,800 --> 01:49:32,239 option that's going to come forward over 2471 01:49:32,239 --> 01:49:34,159 the years. And so, it's a little bit 2472 01:49:34,159 --> 01:49:36,320 more of like which order are we going to 2473 01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:38,320 stack them in because I don't think this 2474 01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:39,600 is the last time that we're going to be 2475 01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:43,280 looking at uh water uh solutions for the 2476 01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:45,600 community here. So, as far as side 2477 01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:49,199 stream storage, uh, we need to consider 2478 01:49:49,199 --> 01:49:51,600 what that looks like. Um, I'm not 2479 01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:53,360 supporting this as the option we're 2480 01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:55,360 moving forward on. I'm I'm putting into 2481 01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:57,119 the pile and then I think we need to be 2482 01:49:57,119 --> 01:49:58,960 looking at as in our at our council 2483 01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:01,280 table. Uh, but for right now, need more 2484 01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:02,800 information on it. I think it's worthy 2485 01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:04,639 consideration. I don't understand the 2486 01:50:04,639 --> 01:50:06,480 full implications of it. Uh, so I want 2487 01:50:06,480 --> 01:50:08,000 to support our committee the whole so 2488 01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:10,639 that it can be in the in the mix. 2489 01:50:10,639 --> 01:50:12,239 >> Right. Yeah. Thank you. And I agree 2490 01:50:12,239 --> 01:50:14,880 100%. Councelor Fazad said if KWL comes 2491 01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:17,119 back to us and says sidestream storage 2492 01:50:17,119 --> 01:50:18,960 where do you live where the water is is 2493 01:50:18,960 --> 01:50:21,040 not an option eliminate it. That's what 2494 01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:22,719 I want to hear. That's part of like 2495 01:50:22,719 --> 01:50:24,560 let's just take that off the table and 2496 01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:26,480 then then we'll look for your other 2497 01:50:26,480 --> 01:50:29,040 magic solution you pull up instead of I 2498 01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,679 have great faith in you guys. Councelor 2499 01:50:31,679 --> 01:50:32,480 Dory. 2500 01:50:32,480 --> 01:50:33,760 >> Thank you through the mayor to our 2501 01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:37,440 delegation. Um, can you perhaps make it 2502 01:50:37,440 --> 01:50:39,760 very clear to me was the sidestream 2503 01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:41,520 stories your number one option that you 2504 01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:43,840 suggested to council because what I saw 2505 01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:46,159 in the presentation was Shelton Healey 2506 01:50:46,159 --> 01:50:48,080 which was previously identified as one 2507 01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:50,639 of the viable options was also presented 2508 01:50:50,639 --> 01:50:52,239 and uh thank you councelor Wood for 2509 01:50:52,239 --> 01:50:56,000 doing the work on this as well. Um 2510 01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:59,119 I would rather prefer us go to that 2511 01:50:59,119 --> 01:51:02,560 option uh explore that one further in 2512 01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:04,320 addition to looking at raising the 2513 01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:06,320 Aerosmith dam which I think staff is 2514 01:51:06,320 --> 01:51:08,639 also recommending in the report. Those 2515 01:51:08,639 --> 01:51:10,800 would be two options that I would 2516 01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:13,280 support at this time. Uh even though it 2517 01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:14,880 is just the committee of the whole but I 2518 01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:16,960 think [snorts] having the experts you've 2519 01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:19,360 already done the work. I did not see the 2520 01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:21,360 sidestream options as being the most 2521 01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:22,960 viable and I'm sorry if I if I missed 2522 01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:24,400 that. It's been a long meeting so 2523 01:51:24,400 --> 01:51:28,950 correct me if I'm wrong. 2524 01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:32,000 » Yeah. So in terms of 2525 01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,480 doing going through the multiple 2526 01:51:34,480 --> 01:51:37,520 accounts evaluation that we did um those 2527 01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:40,000 two options came out a little bit higher 2528 01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:45,840 than than fishtail and we had had um 2529 01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:51,440 removed the offstream storage as as to go through like at the preliminary 2530 01:51:51,440 --> 01:51:54,800 screening stage because of the the costs 2531 01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:57,920 and and land like the relative costs and 2532 01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:02,320 the land implications. So like the the 2533 01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:04,560 highest ranking sites in the were 2534 01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:06,800 Shelton and Healey that came out through 2535 01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:09,599 the evaluation. So not saying that 2536 01:52:09,599 --> 01:52:11,440 that's necessarily again looking at 2537 01:52:11,440 --> 01:52:12,880 those individually, it's not necessarily 2538 01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:18,639 the total correct solution on a phased 2539 01:52:18,639 --> 01:52:20,960 approach, but it it it appeared to be 2540 01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:23,040 the correct solutions for in terms of 2541 01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:24,480 balancing across all the different 2542 01:52:24,480 --> 01:52:26,960 criteria that we're looking at. um in 2543 01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:30,000 terms of the the the direction to go. 2544 01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:31,360 >> Thank you. If I may follow up. 2545 01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,360 >> So So if we could rephrase it to say 2546 01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:35,040 that the possible solutions could 2547 01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:38,080 include looking at the Healey Aerosmith 2548 01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:38,400 Dam 2549 01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:39,679 >> Shelton Healey Lake and raising the 2550 01:52:39,679 --> 01:52:41,679 Aerosmith dam storage. 2551 01:52:41,679 --> 01:52:42,880 >> Well, that would be a separate motion 2552 01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:46,239 altogether. It looks like CEO. So 2553 01:52:46,239 --> 01:52:48,800 >> Oh, hi CEO Kaylor. 2554 01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:50,800 >> Sorry to interrupt. Um thank you mayor 2555 01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:52,239 through you. Um, I just wanted to remind 2556 01:52:52,239 --> 01:52:54,639 council we did have a motion that was 2557 01:52:54,639 --> 01:52:56,480 presented that was deferred for 2558 01:52:56,480 --> 01:52:58,159 consideration until after the committee 2559 01:52:58,159 --> 01:53:00,560 the whole takes place. And so what we 2560 01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:04,000 will be looking for at some point is um 2561 01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:05,440 kind of what councelor Gore is talking 2562 01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:06,639 about and what you've been talking about 2563 01:53:06,639 --> 01:53:09,920 mayor Brian is an order of priority for 2564 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:12,239 that phase two. So what we wrote just 2565 01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:14,880 for council's recommendation or sorry um 2566 01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:17,280 to remind council the recommendation was 2567 01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:19,199 that council consider the priorities and 2568 01:53:19,199 --> 01:53:21,199 timing for the water use planning and 2569 01:53:21,199 --> 01:53:24,480 management study phase 2 scope of work 2570 01:53:24,480 --> 01:53:26,080 and it was deferred until after this 2571 01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:28,480 committee the whole um and that we would 2572 01:53:28,480 --> 01:53:30,800 get a quote from Kerwood Lidell on that 2573 01:53:30,800 --> 01:53:33,520 scope. So if there's five things that 2574 01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:36,560 council wants um to be advanced, we 2575 01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:37,599 would be then working with the 2576 01:53:37,599 --> 01:53:39,360 consultant to get a quote on whether 2577 01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:43,119 that 430 remainder um meets that budget. 2578 01:53:43,119 --> 01:53:44,480 So just as a reminder of kind of the 2579 01:53:44,480 --> 01:53:45,440 next step, 2580 01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:47,520 >> right? So so I I would hope that with 2581 01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:49,440 the amended motion anyways that would do 2582 01:53:49,440 --> 01:53:51,440 exactly that. 2583 01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:54,560 >> So sorry, mayor. I I think that looks 2584 01:53:54,560 --> 01:53:56,880 like CEO, you can correct me, but this 2585 01:53:56,880 --> 01:53:58,560 motion is very different than the 2586 01:53:58,560 --> 01:54:00,080 original motion from the mayor, which is 2587 01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:02,480 a very different direction. So, is it uh 2588 01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:04,320 a new motion? We'll have to vote on this 2589 01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:06,800 unless uh mayor you want to withdraw and 2590 01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:08,159 present this as an option. 2591 01:54:08,159 --> 01:54:11,040 >> No, what what it is is actually just 2592 01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:13,920 defining instead phase two, the the the 2593 01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:15,760 planned one was was a whole bunch of 2594 01:54:15,760 --> 01:54:17,119 options. If you look at what it was, it 2595 01:54:17,119 --> 01:54:18,639 was huge. Yeah. And including 2596 01:54:18,639 --> 01:54:20,159 conservation and piping and 2597 01:54:20,159 --> 01:54:21,599 infrastructure and so forth. I don't 2598 01:54:21,599 --> 01:54:23,360 want to touch that right now. That's why 2599 01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:25,679 I want to define it. We we have to focus 2600 01:54:25,679 --> 01:54:28,400 and define this right now people. And if 2601 01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:30,960 it means for your satisfaction Yeah. And 2602 01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:34,480 that we include the uh possibility of 2603 01:54:34,480 --> 01:54:37,760 the Healey Shelton and also across uh 2604 01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:40,400 aeros storage. I'm definitely in favor 2605 01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:43,599 of amending my motion to that. Councelor 2606 01:54:43,599 --> 01:54:47,760 Frazz, do you agree to the amending? 2607 01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:50,000 I had a different uh thought and 2608 01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:51,920 question here in my go ahead. But also 2609 01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:53,840 to amend it though it can we may not 2610 01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:55,440 have separate ones come out of here 2611 01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:56,880 though like we can have separate op they 2612 01:54:56,880 --> 01:54:58,560 don't have to all be brought together 2613 01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:00,800 under one. I think your motion to 2614 01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:02,080 >> Oh you mean that's what you want two 2615 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:03,280 motions like one? 2616 01:55:03,280 --> 01:55:04,960 >> Yeah. I mean we can we can bring 2617 01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:06,239 multiple recommendations out of the 2618 01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:07,840 committee here and I and I think we 2619 01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:10,000 should uh in this case I believe that 2620 01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:11,840 we're asking for this information aside 2621 01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:13,679 storage. It sounds like you guys had 2622 01:55:13,679 --> 01:55:15,360 already done some work on it and it just 2623 01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:17,360 didn't meet the criteria that cut. So, 2624 01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:18,880 it wasn't included, but it should seem 2625 01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:20,400 like an easy one to bring back now if 2626 01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:21,199 we're just saying, "Hey, that 2627 01:55:21,199 --> 01:55:23,920 information that you put aside. Let's bring it back in the report so we 2628 01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:26,000 can look at it." I think that's I think 2629 01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:26,880 it's an easy 2630 01:55:26,880 --> 01:55:28,320 >> Okay, good suggestion. Let's leave the 2631 01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:29,760 original motion on the floor and then 2632 01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:31,040 we'll look for another motion on the 2633 01:55:31,040 --> 01:55:33,040 floor to do an additional one. Does that 2634 01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:34,320 work for you, Council? Y. 2635 01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:35,599 >> Okay. Thanks. 2636 01:55:35,599 --> 01:55:37,280 >> Okay. Uh, speaking to the motion on the 2637 01:55:37,280 --> 01:55:39,280 floor. Yes. Go ahead, Councelor. 2638 01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:42,239 >> Um, thank you, Mr. Mayor. And given the 2639 01:55:42,239 --> 01:55:43,760 fact that when I had read the report 2640 01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:45,760 earlier and when we had presentations 2641 01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:49,599 earlier and that the sidoom storage was 2642 01:55:49,599 --> 01:55:52,159 not recommended due to costs and the 2643 01:55:52,159 --> 01:55:54,639 amount of land that would be needed etc. 2644 01:55:54,639 --> 01:55:56,639 For all of those reasons with respect to 2645 01:55:56,639 --> 01:55:58,880 the mayor I can't support this. 2646 01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:01,520 >> Thank you. Uh councelor Wood go ahead. 2647 01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:03,760 >> Thank you mayor. I'll start by by saying 2648 01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:08,239 I understand uh why the sideream storage 2649 01:56:08,239 --> 01:56:10,800 seems to make sense on the surface of it 2650 01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:13,360 because we have so much water that flows 2651 01:56:13,360 --> 01:56:17,679 down all winter. Hey, can we can we save 2652 01:56:17,679 --> 01:56:21,040 some of it? Um, but when I try to get my 2653 01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:23,440 head around the amount of water and the 2654 01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:25,760 size of the hole that's 3 or 4 meters 2655 01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:28,639 deep, um, for the engineering [snorts] 2656 01:56:28,639 --> 01:56:32,000 of this, from the people I've spoken to 2657 01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:35,360 in this report, it just is prohibitively 2658 01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:37,440 expensive with permitting and everything 2659 01:56:37,440 --> 01:56:40,400 else. And at first, I thought it was a 2660 01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:42,080 good idea, but I just can't support 2661 01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:46,800 this. Um I my my take is I'd love to see 2662 01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:47,840 this committee make three 2663 01:56:47,840 --> 01:56:49,440 recommendations 2664 01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:51,599 to uh our regular council meeting. One 2665 01:56:51,599 --> 01:56:55,280 is for a water conservation plan. Um and 2666 01:56:55,280 --> 01:56:57,840 one is for upland storage. And we need 2667 01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:00,800 you know either C or D estimates to get 2668 01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:03,599 grants or other funding. 2669 01:57:03,599 --> 01:57:05,920 Those could be for raising the existing 2670 01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:08,560 Aerosmith Dam as well as Shelton and 2671 01:57:08,560 --> 01:57:11,599 Healey Lakes. Um, and then the third one 2672 01:57:11,599 --> 01:57:16,159 is to provide some grant research to see 2673 01:57:16,159 --> 01:57:17,840 what's available for senior government 2674 01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:20,239 funding because what I don't want to see 2675 01:57:20,239 --> 01:57:22,639 is the majority of this being on 2676 01:57:22,639 --> 01:57:25,199 property taxes. So, those are the three 2677 01:57:25,199 --> 01:57:26,719 that I'd like to see, but that's aside 2678 01:57:26,719 --> 01:57:28,719 from your motion, but I can't support um 2679 01:57:28,719 --> 01:57:30,960 sidestream storage. Thanks. 2680 01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:32,719 Don't you think we could include that in 2681 01:57:32,719 --> 01:57:34,719 the next phase after we have this 2682 01:57:34,719 --> 01:57:37,199 initial like I'm trying to keep it very 2683 01:57:37,199 --> 01:57:39,760 simple here councelor wood is I'm trying 2684 01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:41,280 to keep it just for the storage and so 2685 01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:42,719 forth and then we're going to get that 2686 01:57:42,719 --> 01:57:44,960 information back let's either you can't 2687 01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:46,800 see it working in reservoirs I have 2688 01:57:46,800 --> 01:57:49,360 people advising me on the outside that 2689 01:57:49,360 --> 01:57:52,480 it will work okay but I want now the 2690 01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:53,920 experts to tell us whether it's possible 2691 01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:56,000 to work so let's let them tell us what 2692 01:57:56,000 --> 01:57:58,400 it's going to be not our sources on the 2693 01:57:58,400 --> 01:57:59,760 outside that say it should work 2694 01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:02,400 absolutely Absolutely. Um let's let's 2695 01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:07,760 eliminate that or approve it. That's all I'm asking for here. We 2696 01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:10,560 can't, you know, um just bypass it and 2697 01:58:10,560 --> 01:58:12,080 go to the next phase. That's all. But 2698 01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:14,560 anyways, that's that's why I'm it's it's 2699 01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:15,599 here. Anyways, so 2700 01:58:15,599 --> 01:58:17,199 >> yeah, I'm kind of envisioning to answer 2701 01:58:17,199 --> 01:58:18,480 your question, mayor, I'm kind of 2702 01:58:18,480 --> 01:58:20,000 envisioning these would probably be two 2703 01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:22,080 different RFPs. One is for a company to 2704 01:58:22,080 --> 01:58:23,760 do a water conservation plan. 2705 01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:24,639 >> No. Um 2706 01:58:24,639 --> 01:58:26,639 >> no, no, no, no, no. Not not in this 2707 01:58:26,639 --> 01:58:28,320 motion here. 2708 01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:30,880 >> No, no, no. that will follow through in 2709 01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:33,520 phase two after we get this preliminary 2710 01:58:33,520 --> 01:58:34,080 information. 2711 01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:37,599 >> Yeah. And then a second RFP for class CD 2712 01:58:37,599 --> 01:58:39,920 upland water storage for raising 2713 01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:42,800 Aerosent Dam Shelton Healey Lakes. And 2714 01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:44,960 then the third motion would just be to 2715 01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:47,199 staff to look at um the provincial 2716 01:58:47,199 --> 01:58:48,639 funding, but I can't support this motion 2717 01:58:48,639 --> 01:58:51,360 as it is. Thanks. 2718 01:58:51,360 --> 01:58:53,360 >> Gotcha. Fries. 2719 01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:55,440 >> So uh through the mayor council. I think 2720 01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:56,880 the important part of this motion though 2721 01:58:56,880 --> 01:58:59,440 is that when we move forward from here, 2722 01:58:59,440 --> 01:59:01,920 this idea will still exist and the 2723 01:59:01,920 --> 01:59:03,440 people that weren't here in the meeting 2724 01:59:03,440 --> 01:59:04,880 today or hear that, oh, this, you know, 2725 01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:06,719 we we've considered it. We there's 2726 01:59:06,719 --> 01:59:07,840 nothing that we can point to and say, 2727 01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:09,199 look, there's the work and why it 2728 01:59:09,199 --> 01:59:10,960 doesn't why it's not a good option. I 2729 01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:12,000 think we need to be able to put it to 2730 01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:14,159 bed or it'll just keep resurfacing again 2731 01:59:14,159 --> 01:59:16,000 and again. So, this isn't to suggest 2732 01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:17,440 that this is the option that we're going 2733 01:59:17,440 --> 01:59:19,679 to go with, but if this information 2734 01:59:19,679 --> 01:59:20,960 didn't make it to the report, let's 2735 01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:23,440 bring it into there so that that we can 2736 01:59:23,440 --> 01:59:24,719 cross it off the list. So, we have 2737 01:59:24,719 --> 01:59:25,760 something to point to. Otherwise, just 2738 01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:27,599 hearsay over and over and it'll keep 2739 01:59:27,599 --> 01:59:29,199 coming back for years. Like I said, this 2740 01:59:29,199 --> 01:59:30,320 is not going to be the last time we're 2741 01:59:30,320 --> 01:59:33,199 dealing with the water uh issue. And I'm 2742 01:59:33,199 --> 01:59:34,719 sure this idea will just surface again. 2743 01:59:34,719 --> 01:59:36,560 And if it doesn't make the report again, 2744 01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:38,400 it we'll just be back to the square one. 2745 01:59:38,400 --> 01:59:40,480 So, I think it it let's get the 2746 01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:42,000 information and then we can cross it off 2747 01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:44,320 the list if it's not if it's really not 2748 01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:47,599 going to work out. 2749 01:59:47,599 --> 01:59:49,280 >> One more. Uh counc. 2750 01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:52,320 >> Yes. Just quick comment to our CEO. We 2751 01:59:52,320 --> 01:59:53,679 want all this information. I'm not 2752 01:59:53,679 --> 01:59:55,040 against the information, but we are 2753 01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:56,960 working with a budget as you mentioned 2754 01:59:56,960 --> 01:59:59,920 about $440,000 and I don't want to put 2755 01:59:59,920 --> 02:00:01,840 you on the spot to give in a quote on 2756 02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:04,080 this. But the more information we seek, 2757 02:00:04,080 --> 02:00:05,760 the more we draw into that that money 2758 02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:07,760 that we have and if we have these big 2759 02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:09,360 options, do you think in your opinion 2760 02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:11,119 we'll be able to get that information on 2761 02:00:11,119 --> 02:00:13,280 what the three information we we seek 2762 02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:15,280 from councelor Wood just mentioned and 2763 02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:17,679 the sideream storage would be be able to 2764 02:00:17,679 --> 02:00:19,920 get all this information within the 2765 02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:23,119 budget for the phase 2 that we have. 2766 02:00:23,119 --> 02:00:24,239 if I may through the mayor. 2767 02:00:24,239 --> 02:00:25,599 >> Okay. Okay. 2768 02:00:25,599 --> 02:00:27,679 >> Sorry. Thank you. Um the motion that we 2769 02:00:27,679 --> 02:00:29,599 presented to council was to work with 2770 02:00:29,599 --> 02:00:31,360 the consultant to get a budget on the 2771 02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:34,800 scope that you recommend as council. And 2772 02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:37,199 I assume the more work they have to do, 2773 02:00:37,199 --> 02:00:40,400 the more money it will cost. 2774 02:00:40,400 --> 02:00:42,159 >> Yeah, that's I've already asked that 2775 02:00:42,159 --> 02:00:43,840 question. It was very first. I said, can 2776 02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:45,760 you do what I asked on the first one 2777 02:00:45,760 --> 02:00:48,159 under 431,000? 2778 02:00:48,159 --> 02:00:54,159 So why why why go another stand and and we know it it I mean just that 2779 02:00:54,159 --> 02:00:55,920 that's why I'm keeping it simple like 2780 02:00:55,920 --> 02:00:57,920 not look at all the the conservation 2781 02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:00,000 infrastructure requirements because that 2782 02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:02,400 maybe would exceed 431,000 2783 02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:04,239 we already have that all we're saying is 2784 02:01:04,239 --> 02:01:06,320 we we want the the consultants to come 2785 02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:07,920 up with something right now because 2786 02:01:07,920 --> 02:01:10,639 believe me we're taking huge heat for 2787 02:01:10,639 --> 02:01:12,800 these wa these water restrictions that 2788 02:01:12,800 --> 02:01:14,800 are in place right now. I tell you, it's 2789 02:01:14,800 --> 02:01:17,040 the I can't walk down the street without 2790 02:01:17,040 --> 02:01:19,679 people actually 2791 02:01:19,679 --> 02:01:24,480 being very upset and disappointed with what we've done by doing nothing. 2792 02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:27,199 So these gentlemen here, as council 2793 02:01:27,199 --> 02:01:29,360 Martin says, give us a solution. I'm 2794 02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:30,719 hoping that they come up with some 2795 02:01:30,719 --> 02:01:32,960 alternate solutions and if it means 2796 02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:34,719 Morard and Healey and then that's fine 2797 02:01:34,719 --> 02:01:36,880 as well. But that's all I want to do at 2798 02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:38,960 this committee, the whole meeting today. 2799 02:01:38,960 --> 02:01:40,159 I'm going to call the question. All 2800 02:01:40,159 --> 02:01:41,440 those in favor of the motion on the 2801 02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:45,189 floor. 2802 02:01:45,199 --> 02:01:47,199 Those opposed. 2803 02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:49,040 Okay, that's great. Okay, we're done. 2804 02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:51,040 Okay, I'd like to ask thank you very 2805 02:01:51,040 --> 02:01:52,960 much, gentlemen, for everything that 2806 02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:56,480 you've done here today and u we'll 2807 02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:58,000 you'll be hearing from us sometime in 2808 02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:00,239 the future, I guess. 2809 02:02:00,239 --> 02:02:01,280 Thank you. 2810 02:02:01,280 --> 02:02:02,960 >> I would like to make a subsequent motion 2811 02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:03,840 now. 2812 02:02:03,840 --> 02:02:06,480 >> No, I'm calling for a German uh like a 2813 02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:08,800 motion to adjurnn. 2814 02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:10,400 There needs to be recommendation to the 2815 02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:12,800 council. 2816 02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:15,040 I would like to uh make a motion that 2817 02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:17,679 council look at perhaps Shelton and 2818 02:02:17,679 --> 02:02:20,400 Healey Lake as a upland storage option 2819 02:02:20,400 --> 02:02:24,080 and further that u council direct staff 2820 02:02:24,080 --> 02:02:26,000 to look at raising the capacity of the 2821 02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:30,080 airmith dam and further looking at uh 2822 02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:32,960 the conservation guidelines 2823 02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:34,639 uh 2824 02:02:34,639 --> 02:02:36,000 conservation guidelines for the 2825 02:02:36,000 --> 02:02:37,280 community including residential, 2826 02:02:37,280 --> 02:02:39,360 commercial and the resort areas 2827 02:02:39,360 --> 02:02:45,030 something along those lines. Thank you. 2828 02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:47,119 » Yeah. 2829 02:02:47,119 --> 02:02:48,639 No. 2830 02:02:48,639 --> 02:02:50,800 Is there a second? 2831 02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:54,000 >> I'll second that. 2832 02:02:54,000 --> 02:02:55,599 >> Council Frazz, go ahead. 2833 02:02:55,599 --> 02:02:58,320 >> Okay. Council, uh, we have these Sean 2834 02:02:58,320 --> 02:02:59,920 notes prepared here. I was really hoping 2835 02:02:59,920 --> 02:03:02,239 to hear uh, things come out of it 2836 02:03:02,239 --> 02:03:04,400 because I I liked what I was reading out 2837 02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:06,239 of here, too. Uh, so this motion kind of 2838 02:03:06,239 --> 02:03:09,920 dips into that as well. Um 2839 02:03:09,920 --> 02:03:11,679 maybe maybe Sean can speak to this. I 2840 02:03:11,679 --> 02:03:12,960 was hoping he'd have a chance to raise a 2841 02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:15,760 motion first. 2842 02:03:15,760 --> 02:03:18,960 >> Counc. Thank you, mayor. I did uh send 2843 02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:22,880 staff uh motions for these. Um the first 2844 02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:24,800 one is motion one, water conservation 2845 02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:26,639 plan. that the committee the whole 2846 02:03:26,639 --> 02:03:28,400 recommend that council direct staff to 2847 02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:30,480 include in the scope of phase 2 water 2848 02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:32,400 use planning and management study the 2849 02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:34,080 preparation of a compre comprehensive 2850 02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,000 water conservation plan consistent with 2851 02:03:36,000 --> 02:03:37,760 recommendation three of phase one of the 2852 02:03:37,760 --> 02:03:41,040 final report um procured separately from 2853 02:03:41,040 --> 02:03:42,719 a qualified water conservation 2854 02:03:42,719 --> 02:03:45,760 specialist with a scope including risk 2855 02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:48,080 benefit cost analysis of advanced 2856 02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:50,480 metering infrastructure smart meters 2857 02:03:50,480 --> 02:03:53,119 including leak detection and payback a 2858 02:03:53,119 --> 02:03:54,480 review of the city's water rate 2859 02:03:54,480 --> 02:03:56,000 structure including tiered pricing 2860 02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:57,599 options that keep water for health, 2861 02:03:57,599 --> 02:03:59,599 hygiene, and fire suppression affordable 2862 02:03:59,599 --> 02:04:02,080 while pricing discretionary use to 2863 02:04:02,080 --> 02:04:05,040 reflect its cost. An American Waterworks 2864 02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:08,159 Association M36 water audit and water 2865 02:04:08,159 --> 02:04:10,480 loss management plan, rainwater 2866 02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:12,800 retention and aquifer recharge measures 2867 02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:15,119 on city properties. 2868 02:04:15,119 --> 02:04:17,679 >> How about just do your your last two? 2869 02:04:17,679 --> 02:04:18,960 Let's not do all the background 2870 02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:19,440 information. 2871 02:04:19,440 --> 02:04:20,719 >> Yeah. So, the motions are 2872 02:04:20,719 --> 02:04:23,119 >> of order. The problem is that we 2873 02:04:23,119 --> 02:04:24,800 actually have a motion on the floor 2874 02:04:24,800 --> 02:04:26,560 unless councelor Gore would like to 2875 02:04:26,560 --> 02:04:28,480 withdraw that and we could have one 2876 02:04:28,480 --> 02:04:28,960 other 2877 02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:30,639 >> I'm happy to have that those motions 2878 02:04:30,639 --> 02:04:32,400 that looks like there those are exactly 2879 02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:34,639 the line of thought that I have. So I'm 2880 02:04:34,639 --> 02:04:36,639 happy to include those three 2881 02:04:36,639 --> 02:04:38,239 >> mayor. The short ones are definitely in 2882 02:04:38,239 --> 02:04:39,599 what's in front of you, but I just 2883 02:04:39,599 --> 02:04:41,199 wanted to make sure that the motions 2884 02:04:41,199 --> 02:04:43,440 capture the detail of what we need. 2885 02:04:43,440 --> 02:04:45,280 >> Are are you talking about the ask that 2886 02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:47,280 phase 2 be 2887 02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:49,440 >> scoped as two two jobs? Is that what 2888 02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:49,920 you're saying? 2889 02:04:49,920 --> 02:04:51,040 >> Yes. Yes, that's that one. 2890 02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:51,440 >> Yes. 2891 02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:53,119 >> Is that what you're talking about? 2892 02:04:53,119 --> 02:04:54,880 >> Uh in addition, there will be uh the 2893 02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:56,400 increasing the storage capacity at 2894 02:04:56,400 --> 02:04:57,360 Aerosmith Dam. 2895 02:04:57,360 --> 02:04:59,199 >> Yes. So that has been added since these 2896 02:04:59,199 --> 02:05:03,910 notes because we did discuss it today. 2897 02:05:03,920 --> 02:05:08,400 » It's a third anyways. Yeah. 2898 02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:08,800 >> So 2899 02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:09,440 >> I don't know what 2900 02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:11,280 >> the motion on the floor unless councelor 2901 02:05:11,280 --> 02:05:12,320 Wood wants to make it is the 2902 02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:15,840 conservation plan be uh provided. Uh 2903 02:05:15,840 --> 02:05:17,679 second design and costing of the upland 2904 02:05:17,679 --> 02:05:19,360 storage at Shelton and Heily lakes and 2905 02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:20,880 third would be increasing the capacity 2906 02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:22,560 at Aerosmith dam would be including the 2907 02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:28,070 scope of phase two. 2908 02:05:28,080 --> 02:05:29,599 » I'm not sure how we can add more details 2909 02:05:29,599 --> 02:05:31,360 to that later if that works. 2910 02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:32,560 >> That's an opportunity. 2911 02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:34,719 >> Would you agree to adding uh checking of 2912 02:05:34,719 --> 02:05:39,040 the side streams that I messaged 2913 02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:41,920 >> adding three to get my support 2914 02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:44,320 >> if the budget allows within the budget? 2915 02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:46,639 I and the timelines if we can meet if it 2916 02:05:46,639 --> 02:05:48,480 does if the information is already 2917 02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:49,840 available you've mentioned you've looked 2918 02:05:49,840 --> 02:05:53,520 at this u it does not uh like I said 2919 02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:55,199 take too much of our budget that we have 2920 02:05:55,199 --> 02:05:57,840 and the timeline uh I'll include that as 2921 02:05:57,840 --> 02:05:58,480 number four 2922 02:05:58,480 --> 02:06:01,520 >> well then then I suggest if we add the 2923 02:06:01,520 --> 02:06:03,280 size room storage as well into number 2924 02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:06,960 three and then but make it to achieve a 2925 02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:09,440 budget for uh the following three. I do 2926 02:06:09,440 --> 02:06:10,960 have a procedural question for staff. 2927 02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:12,800 Like since we just voted down the exact 2928 02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:14,719 motion, like should it it appropriate to 2929 02:06:14,719 --> 02:06:18,480 include this in in this motion now? And 2930 02:06:18,480 --> 02:06:20,880 >> um if I may, we're in committee, so this 2931 02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:23,760 has to be endorsed by council anyway. Um 2932 02:06:23,760 --> 02:06:26,080 and I think it's fair because it's kind 2933 02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:28,400 of a scope thing. So if it's all four of 2934 02:06:28,400 --> 02:06:30,880 those things, again, our plan is to work 2935 02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:32,639 with KWL to confirm that whatever 2936 02:06:32,639 --> 02:06:35,199 priorities you vote on as a council, 2937 02:06:35,199 --> 02:06:37,119 >> that that's within the budget. and if 2938 02:06:37,119 --> 02:06:38,800 not come back and tell you what 2939 02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:40,079 additional budget might be needed. 2940 02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:43,920 >> Thank you to clarify that would be the last of the priorities in case we 2941 02:06:43,920 --> 02:06:45,840 are not in the budget that should be 2942 02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:47,360 excluded if you're not able to get in 2943 02:06:47,360 --> 02:06:51,910 the budget with sidestream storage. 2944 02:06:51,920 --> 02:06:53,840 » It would it would be based on all four 2945 02:06:53,840 --> 02:06:56,079 of those things if that's okay because 2946 02:06:56,079 --> 02:06:57,440 that's just 2947 02:06:57,440 --> 02:06:59,440 >> if all four of those things. 2948 02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:01,679 >> Okay, 2949 02:07:01,679 --> 02:07:04,719 >> I'll second that. Okay, 2950 02:07:04,719 --> 02:07:07,040 thank you. 2951 02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:08,480 Everybody know the motion that's on the 2952 02:07:08,480 --> 02:07:11,040 farm? 2953 02:07:11,040 --> 02:07:14,159 >> Yes, you do. Or you want to 2954 02:07:14,159 --> 02:07:16,079 >> just a question through yourself to 2955 02:07:16,079 --> 02:07:18,079 staff if I may. Mayoring your motion. 2956 02:07:18,079 --> 02:07:21,760 >> Are these um are these new RFPs or 2957 02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:24,079 they're going to be within the current 2958 02:07:24,079 --> 02:07:26,239 contract with KWL? 2959 02:07:26,239 --> 02:07:27,679 >> If I may, I think we can sort that out 2960 02:07:27,679 --> 02:07:29,599 before the council meeting. Um it 2961 02:07:29,599 --> 02:07:31,760 depends on what council's intent is. We 2962 02:07:31,760 --> 02:07:33,520 have current budget and a current amount 2963 02:07:33,520 --> 02:07:36,159 allocated for phase 2. um we would have 2964 02:07:36,159 --> 02:07:37,679 to work with KWL to make sure that that 2965 02:07:37,679 --> 02:07:39,119 whatever you're asking is within their 2966 02:07:39,119 --> 02:07:41,199 expertise and within a reasonable time 2967 02:07:41,199 --> 02:07:44,000 frame and that it's work they can do. Um 2968 02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:46,400 so it's not really a definitive 2969 02:07:46,400 --> 02:07:48,800 decision. Um council is basically voting 2970 02:07:48,800 --> 02:07:50,480 on the priorities and they're going to 2971 02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:53,360 get them costed and come back to you. 2972 02:07:53,360 --> 02:07:56,000 >> Does that work? Okay. All those in 2973 02:07:56,000 --> 02:07:58,639 favor? 2974 02:07:58,639 --> 02:08:01,040 Thank you. And those opposed? Councelor 2975 02:08:01,040 --> 02:08:05,360 Gren is opposed. Thank you. Carries. 2976 02:08:05,360 --> 02:08:07,760 Maybe it can go now. I don't know. I'd 2977 02:08:07,760 --> 02:08:09,119 like to ask for a mo a motion to 2978 02:08:09,119 --> 02:08:11,040 adjurnn, please. Uh moved by councelor 2979 02:08:11,040 --> 02:08:13,040 France, a second by councelor Wood. All 2980 02:08:13,040 --> 02:08:16,719 those in favor? Thank you. Committee is 2981 02:08:16,719 --> 02:08:20,320 now adjourned. Thank you.