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[0:35] - You are watching CNET Center County's Government
[0:38] and Educational Access Network.
[0:44] - And welcome to the September 23rd Board
[0:49] of Supervisors meeting of Patton Township.
[0:53] And I will,
[1:00] yeah, we will begin with the Pledge of Allegiance.
[1:04] Please join us as you are able
[1:08] - Pledge of Allegiance to FLAG
[1:11] of the United States of America
[1:14] and Republic for WIT stands one Nation
[1:19] under God, indivisible, with liberty
[1:22] and Justice for all.
[1:26] - Oh great. And we will continue
[1:30] with announcements.
[1:32] Are there any announcements?
[1:34] And I'm not, I'm just looking up.
[1:37] I see some of our friends online. None there.
[1:41] We'll go on to posted.
[1:43] Any, any additions to the posted agenda?
[1:48] I'm seeing no request for that.
[1:49] We'll go on to public comments.
[1:51] Does anybody have anything to add that is not already,
[1:55] will not already be addressed in the upcoming agenda?
[1:59] Okay. Seeing none, we start out with
[2:03] presentations and public hearings.
[2:05] We have one item under that
[2:07] and it is the proposed Ordinance
[2:10] 20 26 6 58 adding short term
[2:14] rental regulations.
[2:16] And I'm assuming, yes, I will take that. Amy will take that.
[2:18] - So at your August 19th meeting,
[2:20] we gave you the short-term rental report
[2:23] and made some recommendations on
[2:24] how we think our short-term rental program should change.
[2:27] We were asked to take this back to the planning commission
[2:29] and discuss the changes with them,
[2:31] which we did at their September 14th meeting.
[2:34] The planning commission was supportive of moving ahead
[2:36] with the proposed changes.
[2:38] So those changes, I'll just kind of go over them briefly.
[2:40] These are just some of them, but these are the big ones.
[2:43] Non-owner occupied short-term rentals will only be allowed
[2:47] in the same Zoning districts where we allow hotels.
[2:49] So that would be the C one, general commercial C two plan.
[2:53] Commercial ct,
[2:54] commercial transitional PC plan community only in Toftrees
[2:58] and Oakwood and Planned airport district.
[3:01] In the non-residential area,
[3:03] owner-occupied short-term rentals will be allowed in all
[3:06] of the residential districts.
[3:07] That includes the R one rural residence, R two, low density
[3:11] R three, medium density, RMHP, manufactured Home Park,
[3:16] RM manufactured home residence.
[3:18] A one rural rural district PC plan, community district
[3:22] and PAD Planned Airport District in the residential area
[3:25] to qualify as owner occupied,
[3:27] the property owner must live in the dwelling for a period
[3:29] of at least six calendar months
[3:31] and must provide proof to the Township that you live in.
[3:33] The dwelling, the occupancy
[3:36] of a short term rental dwelling may not exceed the occupancy
[3:39] limit that's set by the code agency.
[3:41] So they can't advertise
[3:42] that they will have 17 people in a short term rental
[3:45] unless the code agency certifies
[3:46] that's the occupancy of the property.
[3:49] We will only permit one accessory dwelling unit per
[3:53] owner occupied dwelling unit.
[3:55] No more than one accessory dwelling unit
[3:57] may be located on the lot.
[3:58] Property owner shall be a resident of the main dwelling unit
[4:01] and only one rental permit will be issued in the single
[4:04] for the single family dwelling
[4:06] per single family dwelling lot.
[4:07] The accessory dwelling unit
[4:09] for the owner occupied could be used as a long-term rental
[4:11] or a short-term rental when
[4:13] that main dwelling is owner occupied.
[4:15] So we have the draft Ordinance mainly together.
[4:17] We had it in your agenda.
[4:19] We are some things we have to continue adding.
[4:21] We've been working with the solicitor on that.
[4:23] But if you're comfortable with the language
[4:24] that we've presented, we would like to get this scheduled
[4:27] for its Public Hearing on October 28th.
[4:32] - Thank you very much. Any
[4:34] comments, questions from the board?
[4:38] - I make a motion to direct the staff
[4:40] to advertise the Ordinance
[4:42] for Public Hearing on October 28th, 2026.
[4:46] - Any other comments? I had a,
[4:49] - Why don't you get a second to the motion first. Oh
[4:51] - Yeah, thank you.
[4:52] - I mean, I'll second I - Do have a question.
[4:53] Great, thank you. Okay.
[4:55] Any thank you for the motion to the second. Any questions or
[4:59] - I do have a, a question.
[5:00] What is gonna be, what's gonna be required
[5:02] for proof that it's owner
[5:04] - Occupied?
[5:05] So the draft language we say, let me find it here.
[5:16] Oh, under occupied? Yeah.
[5:18] So driver's license,
[5:20] government issued identification card copy
[5:22] of the most recent year's,
[5:23] income tax return vehicle registration,
[5:25] voter registration statements such as medical
[5:28] or utility services or a pay stub.
[5:30] And we're gonna require two forms. Okay.
[5:33] We also are adding a space, if you live in a community
[5:36] that has a homeowner's association that your HOA has
[5:40] to sign off that you're allowed
[5:41] to have a short term rental. Yep.
[5:43] - Just one question for the, the people that,
[5:46] or the districts that would qualify
[5:48] for both short and long term.
[5:52] Can they go back and forth with this
[5:54] or would they have to be one or the other?
[5:56] - So if they're gonna switch from a short term
[5:58] to a long term, they would have
[5:59] to file a new rental housing permit for the long term
[6:01] because we're gonna start tracking
[6:03] short term and long terms.
[6:04] - But they, they could do it,
[6:06] they would just have to go through
[6:07] - That.
[6:08] Yeah. It's the same rental housing code that they follow.
[6:10] - I was gonna say they wouldn't have to go back
[6:12] to code, it's just they would just have to
[6:13] - Go back.
[6:14] They would have to file probably a change with code.
[6:16] So code knows it's a long-term rental then. Okay.
[6:18] But it's the same rental
[6:19] housing code that they would follow. Okay.
[6:20] - Alright. That was the whole question.
[6:22] You had something great. Thanks. Anything else?
[6:25] I had a, a minor edit
[6:28] and it it, it may sound picky
[6:31] but when I read it first time I was a little confused.
[6:34] So someone else is gonna read it and be a little confused.
[6:37] It is on page,
[6:42] sorry, it's on page two
[6:44] and it's actually in the definitions section.
[6:48] I should have just said that. The first paragraph
[6:50] accessory dwelling unit.
[6:51] Yep. It reads an accessory
[6:54] or secondary living unit with a one family detached dwelling
[6:59] that has a separate kitchen, bathroom and sleeping area.
[7:04] What I would suggest is that it,
[7:07] because when I first read that, I thought that maybe the,
[7:09] the dwelling unit itself had to have a separate bathroom
[7:14] sleeping kitchen area from, from itself.
[7:16] So would not include an efficiency apartment.
[7:22] So I just suggest that we simply change it to
[7:28] living unit, to secondary living unit
[7:32] to a one family detached dwelling that has a kitchen,
[7:36] bathroom and sleeping area.
[7:38] That's a question comma separate
[7:43] but existing in the same lot.
[7:47] - So I'll, I appreciate that comment,
[7:49] but we're trying to keep this language the same
[7:51] as the language that the state is proposing
[7:54] in their bill on accessory dwelling units.
[7:56] So this actually mirrors their language.
[7:58] - You should have stopped me then. So
[8:00] - You - Were so polite.
[8:01] I appreciate the language. Okay.
[8:03] - So I apologize. It's a good comment but
[8:06] - I am fine with that.
[8:07] But I will say whatever, take it up with Josh Shapiro,
[8:10] take it with, take it up with Josh Shapiro.
[8:13] - He didn't write the language.
[8:14] - I know that's a point,
[8:16] but he can get the language amended.
[8:19] So Betsy's feedback
[8:21] - If someone has something,
[8:24] 'cause I remember in grad school a friend
[8:25] renting, so she had no kitchen.
[8:29] - So if you have no kitchen, that's technically,
[8:31] I believe not an accessory dwelling unit.
[8:34] It's the kitchen that makes it,
[8:36] the accessory dwelling unit. Ah,
[8:37] - Okay.
[8:38] - Interesting. So what is it then? Just a renter?
[8:41] - Probably an illegal renter, but yes,
[8:43] - An illegal - Renter. I don't know. I'm
[8:46] - Okay.
[8:47] - Lots of lots of microwave food.
[8:49] - Yeah, you have to, you have to speak up
[8:51] because this thing's not working. So
[8:53] - I just said lots of microwave
[8:54] - Food.
[8:55] Well, and also a microwave counts
[8:56] as a cooking facility. Yeah.
[8:57] - So, so true.
[9:02] What about a, a family that wants
[9:06] to help out by taking in a graduate student?
[9:09] And I know of several people who've done that.
[9:12] So they'll advertise
[9:13] or, you know, reach out to a particular department.
[9:16] 'cause they've, they've hosted people. In fact,
[9:17] we had somebody like that.
[9:19] We went through code. It was, it was okay.
[9:21] But they had a separate room. They did not.
[9:25] And they had access to the kitchen,
[9:27] but it was not separate from what we had.
[9:30] Will that be allowed under this?
[9:32] - I think that's allowed Now you're choosing to take
[9:35] that person into your dwelling unit with you. Yeah. Yeah.
[9:38] - And - We just, it's not an accessory dwelling unit
[9:41] because they don't have a separate kitchen or
[9:43] - Bathroom area.
[9:44] Right. Okay. Yep. So it's just a renter. Yeah.
[9:45] I mean we just called him a roommate.
[9:47] Yeah, he's, he's, he's a good dude. Okay, great. Thank you.
[9:52] Any more discussion questions? Okay.
[9:55] If not, we'll I'll, we have to have a vote.
[9:59] So all those in favor of it signify by saying aye. Aye.
[10:03] Any opposed? Okay. Goes on to wherever goes on to.
[10:10] Thank you. We are now, and I apologize
[10:15] 'cause I usually have my little handy dandy form set out
[10:19] color coded and that's the wrong one.
[10:25] Okay. We're now going on to public safety,
[10:30] but there are no items, sorry
[10:32] to say Chief, glad to have you here.
[10:33] You may always public works also.
[10:38] No items but rhyme. We're glad to have you here as always.
[10:41] So now planning and Zoning, we've got several items.
[10:46] Looks like two. Yes. So I'm assuming you'll take that
[10:48] - In.
[10:49] Yeah, so Ellen Foreman is here
[10:50] to give the planning commission report.
[10:51] - Oh, I, you know, I could have gone right down to that.
[10:54] It was highlighted in my other copy pretty
[10:58] - Fast. We had a great meeting.
[11:00] - Hello Ellen. Welcome. - Nice to see you all. Okay.
[11:02] We had a great meeting. We did see the
[11:06] final land development plan for patent crossing.
[11:10] And I would say I, I think they'll be maybe here
[11:13] to answer questions or whatever,
[11:15] but we, we, we did recommend moving forward the questions
[11:19] that we had had a lot to do with the traffic
[11:22] and like routing traffic through the,
[11:26] through the entire development.
[11:29] So the way that I think
[11:33] you all recommended we move forward was to,
[11:38] in six months revisit or,
[11:40] or a certain period of time, revisit how
[11:42] that traffic is flowing.
[11:45] Because there's basically three drive throughs.
[11:47] I know one is, you know, for a pickup window
[11:50] for a restaurant, another one is for an actual drive through
[11:54] and the bank is actually a drive through.
[11:55] So there's a lot going on there.
[11:57] So we were just a little worried about that.
[12:00] And then the only other things we talked about were the
[12:03] short term regulations, which I thought were great.
[12:07] I think the whole commission thought they were very good.
[12:09] And then the request
[12:12] to regulate storage containers by a member of the public
[12:17] in front yards.
[12:18] And so that's people putting parking pods in front yards
[12:22] and waste disposal containers and things like that.
[12:26] And so we did think that the staff should move forward
[12:31] with looking at an Ordinance
[12:34] or some kind of regulations for that.
[12:37] And that was pretty much it. Right? Yeah. Nothing else.
[12:39] Okay. Good. That's it.
[12:41] - Thanks. - I don't know if people had questions about
[12:44] the is are they, they're
[12:46] - Here for patent crossing. Okay.
[12:47] - Great. Anybody else? Anybody have any questions for Ellen?
[12:50] No. Yes, no, no.
[12:52] I was just saying thank oh, was a Thank you. Yeah.
[12:53] Thanks for thinking outside the box
[12:55] as always with your team.
[12:56] Yep. And we've actually already addressed the
[13:00] storage unit. We, we are,
[13:02] - That's been sent to the planning commission
[13:03] and now Nicole is actually working on Ordinance language,
[13:06] which they won't meet in October
[13:08] because we don't have any agenda items.
[13:10] But they'll meet in November
[13:11] and we'll look at a draft Ordinance then for that.
[13:13] - Great. I knew I had crossed our agenda, crossed our deck.
[13:18] Okay. We're on to patent crossing phase two C,
[13:22] final land development plan and who is,
[13:26] - So I'll kick it off and then we have Tony Retal here
[13:29] and we actually have the plan ready to go this time, Tony,
[13:31] so we don't have the B team today.
[13:34] Okay. So 1752 North Atherton Street Associates submitted the
[13:38] final land development plan for patent crossing phase two C.
[13:41] This is where the Aldi is located in the
[13:44] Cava is being located.
[13:45] You did the conditional use for this at your last meeting.
[13:48] Project consists
[13:49] of a 3,500 square foot fast casual restaurant
[13:52] and a 7,000
[13:53] seven hundred, seven hundred and ninety one square foot bank.
[13:56] The restaurant will be a single story building
[13:58] with a full service drive through window
[13:59] and dual order points.
[14:01] The bank will be a two story building
[14:03] with customer service area offices walk up ATM
[14:06] and single lane drive through window.
[14:08] As Ellen discussed,
[14:10] the planning commission's concerns were related
[14:12] to the internal traffic flow
[14:14] and one of the conditions of your approval was that queuing
[14:17] and stacking analysis be completed
[14:19] after the businesses are in
[14:20] and we can see how traffic is flowing.
[14:22] So Tony, if we pull up the plan,
[14:24] you wanna just talk a little bit about it for us? Sure.
[14:27] - Great.
[14:32] - A new spy here. Sure. Tony Freckle, Panera Engineering.
[14:37] Been here before to talk about this project.
[14:39] I think you're all familiar with
[14:40] the location and everything.
[14:41] So as Amy said, this is the addition of a
[14:46] 8,000 square foot bank.
[14:48] Two story kind of sits in the middle of the, the property
[14:51] or in the middle of the two C area.
[14:55] One story, 3,500 square foot
[14:57] restaurant have dual drive through lanes.
[15:00] We'll see it here in a minute. The restaurant will have some
[15:03] outdoor seating associated with it as well.
[15:05] There we go. I'll take this.
[15:09] Yeah, so just to orient, this is the existing kava building
[15:13] that you can see it's being built right now.
[15:16] Just as a quick update,
[15:17] final paving was completed on that last week.
[15:21] I think the, all the code items were signed off
[15:24] and they're outfitting that building right now.
[15:27] So I'm thinking somewhere
[15:29] around the holidays they'll be looking for occupancy
[15:32] to, to open that up.
[15:34] The proposal for this plan is the bank sits right here
[15:37] along Atherton Street.
[15:38] The restaurant sits right here along this
[15:40] side of the, the site.
[15:41] There's dual drive through lanes, dual order points,
[15:44] pick up window right here.
[15:45] The exit through here. The bank does have a, a teller win,
[15:50] a drive through teller window.
[15:52] It does not have an a pull up ATM, there was an ATM
[15:56] but it's a walk up in front.
[15:57] So you have to park in front to go to that, just like
[16:01] that was considered as part of the, the traffic study.
[16:05] And hey, how much queuing do we have at the bank?
[16:07] Not a whole lot because there's,
[16:09] because the, that ATM is not there.
[16:13] It does have, people can enter the drive through lane
[16:16] for the restaurant the whole way on this side.
[16:18] So there's, there's queuing
[16:20] that could wrap the whole way around.
[16:22] This, this part of the, the site that's 20 some cars
[16:26] in addition to the 15 that can, can queue here.
[16:29] So I know that's a big, that's a big deal
[16:31] with the, with the Township.
[16:32] And all of those vehicles would not be in the way
[16:35] of any additional parking, any other
[16:38] drive aisles or anything like that.
[16:40] So that was kind of the thought, get those folks out
[16:44] of the way of everything else on the site.
[16:47] There is a DA access from the existing sidewalk
[16:50] that comes up the main driveway.
[16:52] There will be A-D-A-A-D-A access down
[16:55] the new road that's proposed.
[16:56] This, this comes down the opposite side.
[17:00] It is a right in right out off of Atherton Street.
[17:04] The apron for this was actually put in as part of the
[17:08] highway occupancy work that was done when the,
[17:10] when the site was, was first built.
[17:13] It's right in right out. It will remain.
[17:15] So there will be some signage that goes over here that kind
[17:20] of lets folks know, hey, you're heading
[17:22] to a right out when you get down here, there's no left turn.
[17:24] So that was kind of one of the small conditions
[17:28] that was suggested about letting folks know what's going on.
[17:31] So we did a, a turning template for trash vehicles
[17:35] that exit the, the trash corrals
[17:40] fire truck circulation plan is part of the plan.
[17:43] The, the chief has seen that.
[17:45] We've gotten his comments, we got Township comments,
[17:49] we've addressed most of them.
[17:51] There's a couple of minor technical items
[17:53] that are still outstanding.
[17:55] I think staff has agreed
[17:56] that they're well within the parameters of
[17:59] conditional approval of the plan.
[18:01] So there is not a lease signed
[18:06] yet for the bank or the restaurant.
[18:09] So I know, I promise you, notification of who they are.
[18:12] I can't tell you that yet. Two weeks, Heidi.
[18:17] I'm saying two weeks they're over there saying eh, maybe
[18:22] so we'll let everybody know Exactly.
[18:24] You know who those tenants are as soon as we can. So Yeah.
[18:27] But they are looking to get started out here, so be happy
[18:31] to answer any questions you have
[18:33] and just asking for conditional approval as,
[18:37] as noted in the packet.
[18:38] - So was the, sorry, the fire chief, was that
[18:41] satisfactorily addressed then?
[18:42] What they, what his comments were?
[18:45] - Yes. Yes.
[18:46] He, he had a comment about
[18:50] noting whether there's a fire lane back here.
[18:52] He had a con, there was a comment about
[18:53] where the fire department connection goes on the building
[18:56] and then just making sure that the fire trucks,
[18:57] I think his biggest concern was making sure the fire
[18:59] trucks can get in and out.
[19:01] And we did show that on the plan. Yes.
[19:07] - Any other questions? - I was just thinking,
[19:10] what if in like two weeks you find out the tenant is like
[19:13] Satan's basket weaving bonanza.
[19:18] - It's not.
[19:23] - Sorry man. So - You think
[19:26] - We just had to know though, thank you for, you know Sure.
[19:30] Negating that.
[19:32] Yeah, no questions.
[19:36] So No, it's, I don't have any questions.
[19:38] I thought every time I see of this some item on,
[19:42] on this coming up, I think it was started,
[19:47] I mean, when I started basically, and
[19:49] - We've seen this a couple times for sure.
[19:51] - Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it's, it's, it's exciting to me
[19:54] to see it moving along.
[19:55] So glad that we've got, you got renters. And moving
[19:59] - Ahead, I'll make a motion for the board
[20:02] to approve the patent Township crossing phase two C land
[20:06] development plan subject
[20:07] to the Township staff comment letter dated
[20:10] June 18th, 2026.
[20:12] And with the addition of the following comment to be added
[20:15] to sheet four of the plan texts, the patent Township board
[20:19] of Supervisors approved 1752 North Atherton Street
[20:24] Associates LPs request for the conditional use
[20:27] of drive-through use uses for the bank
[20:30] and restaurant at Patton Crossing on September 9th, 2026.
[20:36] - I'll second. Great. Okay. We've got a motion and a second.
[20:40] Any other questions? Then I'll accept a yay or nay vote.
[20:45] All those in favor signify by saying yay. Yay. Yay.
[20:50] Yay y yay. Yay. Thank you for that. Aye. Aye.
[20:55] Any opposed? Okay, great. Yep, we good. Go ahead. Thank you.
[20:59] Thank you. Green light. Thank you. Appreciate it.
[21:01] Yeah, thank you. Thanks for crushing my basket.
[21:05] Weaving dreams. We do it. There we go.
[21:10] Yeah, there you go. I like it.
[21:13] I'm gonna do it out of the basement here.
[21:15] No, so we we're moving on to administration.
[21:17] The first item there is the midyear report.
[21:19] So I'm assuming I'm just gonna go out in the limb that
[21:22] that is gonna come from Larry.
[21:24] - That's correct. Okay.
[21:25] So the next two items are coming from Larry. Larry.
[21:30] So I've
[21:34] provided an update on the Township financial position based
[21:37] on the revenues expenses from the first six months
[21:41] of the year and projected revenues
[21:43] and expenditures for the end of the year.
[21:46] And that was included item seven A in your packet.
[21:53] So let me see if I can get this to move. Okay.
[21:56] So an overview is year
[21:59] to date revenues are currently running
[22:03] or are tracking to be 1.5% over budget,
[22:08] which is pretty good.
[22:09] And our year to date expenditures are tracking
[22:13] to be even with budget.
[22:15] So we're going to do a little bit better on
[22:19] our budgeted fund balance.
[22:21] But our budgeted, we had a budget for use of fund balance.
[22:26] We're gonna use a little less.
[22:28] - Hmm. - Revenues, the real estate
[22:33] taxes are tracking at also 1%
[22:38] that should say over budget.
[22:40] Oh, it's one per 1.5% over budget. I'm sorry.
[22:44] Real estate transfer tax
[22:46] is tracking 25, 20 1% over budget.
[22:51] And that results in our total revenues tracking
[22:55] about 1.5% over
[22:57] budget expenditures.
[23:01] There's nothing really out of the ordinary
[23:04] with expenditures there.
[23:06] You know, some items that are a little over, a little bit
[23:09] above, a little bit below and,
[23:12] but the end result is that we're
[23:15] tracking even with their budget.
[23:17] And I want to thank my fellow department heads.
[23:21] They're doing a great job in their departments
[23:24] and keeping the costs under control.
[23:27] And with that I will,
[23:30] I'll answer any questions anybody might have
[23:37] - Any questions?
[23:39] No. Can you please explain probably again to me
[23:46] exactly what the transfer tax is
[23:48] and how that's different from just the
[23:50] real estate? Does that, what comes with
[23:51] - Their sold?
[23:52] Okay, so the transfer taxes we give one half a percent
[23:56] of the sales price of any real estate that gets sold.
[24:01] - Sold Okay. - In the Township.
[24:04] So, so this year it's, it's been, you know,
[24:07] the sales have been running higher than they were last year.
[24:09] - Yeah. - So that's why you see the increase
[24:12] and the re you know, we talk about that
[24:15] during the budget season.
[24:17] It's a very difficult number to budget because
[24:20] - You don't know what the market,
[24:21] - We don't know Yeah.
[24:22] What's gonna sell. And if we could get it, you know, if, if
[24:27] somebody sells one of the apartment buildings
[24:29] with student housing and that must be huge Toftrees
[24:33] or whatever, those are the years we get
[24:36] really high transfer tax.
[24:39] - Great. And who, who pays that transit?
[24:42] The people selling those or? So the seller or the buyer?
[24:45] - The seller pays a half a percent. Okay. And the,
[24:49] - The - Buyer?
[24:50] Buyer pays a half a percent. Oh, okay.
[24:53] And we get a half a percent.
[24:55] And the school district, it's a half a percent.
[24:57] - Thank you. I know I've been told that several times
[25:00] but I appreciate being told again.
[25:01] Yes, thank you very much. Okay, any other questions?
[25:08] We are on then to your second item? Yes.
[25:11] - My second thing where I, well me
[25:16] and Amy discussed this
[25:18] and we are asking for a temporary change
[25:22] to the employee pay plan this year.
[25:25] According to the Patent Township employee policy handbook,
[25:31] section five, pay plan
[25:33] and compensation subsection, a employee pay pad.
[25:37] The pay plan upon approval of the board
[25:40] of Supervisors is adjusted on January 1st each year
[25:44] for the cost of living allowance
[25:47] cola based on the consumer price index
[25:50] for all urban consumers, less food
[25:52] and energy items for the previous August,
[25:56] which would be the number that just came out,
[26:00] I think it came out last week.
[26:04] Currently that number
[26:06] for August, 2026 is 2.4%.
[26:12] We're recommending for the 2027 budget
[26:17] to use the CPI
[26:20] the consumer price index for all items.
[26:24] That number came in in August, 2026.
[26:28] 2026 at 3.4%.
[26:33] And the reason why I'm making this, this request is
[26:38] due to the increase in the cost
[26:40] and energy, so gasoline for,
[26:45] for August, 2026.
[26:47] It's listed under the CPA increase
[26:50] of 27.4%
[26:54] and the cost of fuel oil, which is used for home heating,
[26:58] which some of our employees use of fuel oil
[27:03] to heat their homes, that has increased 52%.
[27:07] That's because that's based on diesel fuel.
[27:11] So home eating fuel is pretty much the same as diesel.
[27:19] Factoring the increase in healthcare, which is estimated
[27:23] by Benic Con at this point to be 10.6%,
[27:28] the employees would see a,
[27:30] a very small increase in their net pay at a co rate
[27:34] of 2.4%.
[27:36] Therefore it is recommended mended of the Township manager,
[27:40] an assistant Township manager for finance administration
[27:45] for board to approve this temporary change
[27:48] for the employee pay plan for 2020 seven's budget.
[27:53] I'd also say that, you know,
[27:57] maybe this is something we should look at in the future.
[28:01] I'm not not sure why it was set up
[28:05] that we use all items less food and energy.
[28:09] And maybe it's something that as we're going through the
[28:14] employee policy manual that we think about changing
[28:18] that policy to just be all items.
[28:22] But we can discuss that during 2027.
[28:26] So if there's any questions, I'll answer any questions.
[28:30] - Any questions? Yeah, Heidi?
[28:32] I I mean I, I think that this is reasonable,
[28:34] but I just wanna, I was curious,
[28:35] have we done this in the past?
[28:38] - Have we We have not done it since I've been here.
[28:42] Generally the,
[28:46] the two have been very close together within
[28:50] three tenths of a, a of a percent.
[28:54] So maybe one would be 2.7 and the other one would be three
[28:59] or it'd be the other way around.
[29:02] So it's never concerned me
[29:05] because also, you know, it might have been a year two where
[29:10] the healthcare wasn't as big of an increase.
[29:14] You know, our healthcare might have only been a five
[29:16] or a 6% increase this year with the healthcare
[29:21] employees that are make it under a certain amount of amount
[29:25] of money will actually at 2.4% see less
[29:30] of a net pay than, than they would
[29:34] with 3.4%.
[29:36] So with the, you know, taking out the gas
[29:41] and the fuel oil, it, it really,
[29:47] it, it really affects it.
[29:49] 'cause it's a, it's a full, it's a full percent.
[29:52] - So when would this take effect
[29:53] - Then?
[29:54] You said? So this would be included in the budget, the
[29:57] - 2027. 2027.
[29:59] - So starting in January, take effect on January 1st, 2027.
[30:03] - Okay. - That's, that was my
[30:06] - Question.
[30:07] Any other questions? You look like you might
[30:10] have been confused
[30:12] - Or you're doing math in your head.
[30:18] - Well you didn't sleep. What, what does temporary mean?
[30:21] - Temporary means that we would change it for 2027
[30:25] but maintain the policy
[30:29] of using less food and energy for future years.
[30:33] - We are updating our employee manual or personnel manual.
[30:36] We've been working on that for about a year now.
[30:38] So that's something that we could bring to you
[30:41] to make a permanent change when we update that manual.
[30:43] 'cause we wanna get that finished. And
[30:45] that would be finished in 27.
[30:48] - Yeah, I mean there's, there's nothing stopping
[30:51] from making it permanent right now if you, if the board
[30:55] - If you want it - To be.
[30:56] But once to do that I wouldn't be so presumptuous
[31:00] to to, to tell
[31:02] - You to do that.
[31:03] I mean I would, I would wanna just see the graph, the plot
[31:05] of the trends over a long period of time
[31:06] before we committed to something this for one year.
[31:09] I'm personally comfortable doing it,
[31:10] but for longer term just
[31:12] to have a little bit more facts about it.
[31:14] Yeah.
[31:15] - Yeah. And I think if we look at that graph,
[31:18] you'll see sometimes the less food
[31:21] and energy is higher, sometimes it's lower.
[31:24] It's never been to this big
[31:26] of a decrease since I've been here.
[31:28] And so over time it kind of evens out.
[31:31] - Yeah. Because generally the one without the food
[31:34] and energy is more stable and that's
[31:36] - Probably what they do.
[31:37] That's correct. Right.
[31:37] The one without the food and energy,
[31:39] but a freaking year this year And is the reason why
[31:43] I was told that we use it because it's a more stable
[31:46] but in this particular, the way the numbers are all falling
[31:51] for 2027, you know,
[31:54] everybody is feeling the, the, the
[31:58] - People are getting - The help, the crunch in the economy.
[32:01] They're gonna feel it even more if, if 2027
[32:06] we hit them with a 10.6% increase in healthcare
[32:11] and a and a 2.4% in cola.
[32:15] Yeah.
[32:18] - Yep. Any other questions?
[32:22] - Do so you know, if you agree you could make a motion
[32:26] to make this a temporary change
[32:28] or you want to make a motion for permanent
[32:31] - Item.
[32:32] Yep. I'll make a motion to make a temporary change
[32:34] to use CPI for all items for the 2027 budget. Second,
[32:39] - I'll second.
[32:40] Okay. Any other questions? We got a motion to second. Okay.
[32:45] All those in favor signify Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
[32:50] Okay, thank you. It's yours. Yours to go with? Yep.
[32:54] Okay, we're on to the REATION
[32:56] for the Pennsylvania Municipal Leagues annual summit.
[33:01] - So Supervisor Cruzi is gonna be our representative
[33:04] to the resolutions committee
[33:05] and actually next Friday they have their meeting ahead
[33:08] of the annual summit meeting in Hershey.
[33:10] So I gave you a copy of the proposed resolutions and the p
[33:13] and l policy statement in case any of you have any questions
[33:17] or have strong feelings on those resolutions
[33:19] and wanna provide them to
[33:20] Supervisor Cruzi ahead of that meeting.
[33:24] - Great. Any questions? Alright, so information only.
[33:28] We're onto the Consent Agenda.
[33:31] We've got five, four items, actually several items,
[33:35] sub sub items and of course these are items
[33:39] that are di minimis or repetitive in natures or publicness.
[33:44] I'd like a motion to accept the items on the Consent Agenda.
[33:49] So moved And a second. I'll second. Okay. Any discussion?
[33:53] And you should have asked, I guess if anybody wants to poll
[33:56] seeing, seeing none then I guess we'll take a vote.
[34:01] All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
[34:06] Okay, here we go. Onto the manager's report. So
[34:10] - I just have two things to tell you.
[34:13] The first is, we found out last week
[34:15] that we're receiving a $129,000 grant from
[34:19] the local share account.
[34:20] That's the GA statewide gaming money, which we will use
[34:23] to pave the pump track at Burnell Road Park.
[34:26] There was some private fundraising done
[34:28] for that project as well.
[34:29] So we'll get that done in 2027.
[34:32] And then the other thing is, tomorrow, if you're looking
[34:35] for something to do at 11:00 AM I am moderating a session on
[34:39] the role of the municipal manager
[34:40] for the Pennsylvania Local Government Commission
[34:42] statewide symposium.
[34:44] It's an audience of legislators and some attorneys
[34:47] and others across the state.
[34:48] It's 1000% free.
[34:50] You just have to register
[34:51] through the local government commission's website.
[34:53] But we're very excited
[34:54] 'cause we're gonna talk about what our role is
[34:56] and why professional municipal managers are very important
[34:59] to the communities that we serve.
[35:01] - You're here. You sent an email about
[35:02] - That.
[35:03] I did, yeah.
[35:04] - And that's the links in - There. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I
[35:07] - Gotta work.
[35:08] How long is your, how long
[35:09] - Is your It's from 11 to 12.
[35:11] Okay, great. So it'll be fun and yeah,
[35:15] - Are you nervous? And
[35:16] - You are a little bit - Are you,
[35:17] are you the what do, what did you say?
[35:19] - He asked if I was nervous. I'm a little nervous 'cause
[35:21] - It's, it's, that's good. That's good. It's
[35:23] - A good audience and we want to express
[35:26] how important our role is
[35:27] because steal one of my lines from this session tomorrow,
[35:31] cross pockets of Pennsylvania,
[35:32] there are not municipal managers.
[35:34] We're actually in one of the pockets that doesn't have a lot
[35:36] of municipal managers in nor in the North Centre Region.
[35:39] In the southeastern region.
[35:40] There's a ton of municipal managers
[35:42] and we do a lot for our communities.
[35:44] Our mission in life is
[35:45] to leave our community a little better than we found it.
[35:48] So we wanna kind of implore why this is
[35:51] - Stop, - Why this is so
[35:52] - Important.
[35:54] - We, we will be outside our door heckling
[35:56] - Her.
[35:59] Larry's gonna be
[36:05] so communities who don't have managers,
[36:09] they just have like a three board.
[36:11] - Sometimes they have a three board
[36:13] and they have secretary treasurers,
[36:15] which are a very important role.
[36:16] But a secretary treasurer
[36:17] and a municipal manager are two very different things.
[36:20] A secretary treasurer typically just does the business
[36:24] of the Township, the administrative work.
[36:25] A municipal manager helps the board of Supervisors,
[36:28] the board sets the policy, but we provide information
[36:31] and input and we're more on the strategy side.
[36:34] We're looking long term at the community itself.
[36:36] So both very worthwhile.
[36:38] But there are a lot of communities
[36:40] and we have some of them around us that hire managers
[36:42] and don't understand what the manager is supposed to do.
[36:45] And the elected officials feel
[36:46] that the manager is treading into their territory.
[36:49] So we want people to understand there's a lane
[36:51] for the manager, there's a lane for the elected official.
[36:55] And a lot of the issues we've seen recently in local
[36:57] governments, we certainly had one in here in Centre County
[37:00] with Greg Township with money.
[37:02] They didn't have financial management practices
[37:04] in place and other things.
[37:05] And so a professional manager,
[37:07] typically we have master's degrees
[37:09] and experience in local government.
[37:11] We bring a lot to the table in terms
[37:13] of helping a community grow.
[37:15] And so if the legislature, it took us a long time
[37:18] to get contractual rights.
[37:20] The legislature finally gave that to us.
[37:22] And like getting the legislature to understand
[37:24] how important our role is, is something that we would love
[37:28] to see from our professional side, our, our association side
[37:32] because we would like to provide our input
[37:34] and the local government commission,
[37:36] I have become great friends with them
[37:38] after talking about automated speed
[37:39] enforcement cameras last year with them.
[37:41] And they truly will call me
[37:42] and say, Hey, we heard someone's having
[37:44] this problem in the state.
[37:46] What do you know about this?
[37:47] And how can we find out more information?
[37:49] And that's what we wanna be, we wanna be a
[37:50] conduit of information. So,
[37:53] - Well I think they picked the right person
[37:55] - And a little passionate about
[37:56] - It.
[37:57] Yeah, no, yeah. I'm sure you'll make us proud.
[38:00] I'll listen to it. So yeah, it sounds great.
[38:02] I think it's good Amm looking forward to it. Yeah.
[38:04] Okay, we're moving on to committee reports.
[38:08] I know we got some reports submitted.
[38:12] - If I can just make a comment about the finance
[38:15] committee budget
[38:16] - Sessions.
[38:17] Yes. Oh my gosh.
[38:19] - So you're gonna see the budget come up.
[38:23] They, they, I believe the executive committee approved
[38:29] pushing it onto the municipal,
[38:32] - The - Municipalities.
[38:33] - Yes, exactly. For some
[38:35] reason you're having trouble hearing sir.
[38:36] - So I just wanted to say that the
[38:40] status quo budget for COG, that means the budget
[38:45] that has no 60 items, it just has exactly
[38:49] what we did last year
[38:52] increased 6.2%.
[38:55] However, patent
[39:00] township's portion of that increased
[39:04] 9.2%.
[39:07] I think I wrote in there 9.2. Yeah.
[39:08] - 9.2 206,617.
[39:11] - 206,000. That's correct. $675.
[39:17] So already we're gonna see an increase of that.
[39:20] And then when we went through the 60 items
[39:23] and added those on,
[39:27] it looks like iron increase is going to be a about
[39:31] 12.7%. Did I put that in
[39:35] - There?
[39:36] I, yeah, I have 12.79 so yeah,
[39:38] - 12.8 it - It might be a little different.
[39:40] Yeah. 'cause then there was a little bit of dynamics
[39:43] with the six C itself. So,
[39:45] - So it, it, I just want to bring that to your attention
[39:49] the way when you see the budget, you know, pay attention
[39:54] to the COG budget this year especially
[39:56] because it is a substantial increase.
[40:01] - So - Thank you.
[40:03] - Thank you, thank you.
[40:05] So are you telling us
[40:06] something without telling us something?
[40:08] - I'm telling you to take a look at it
[40:11] and make sure you agree with all the 60 items
[40:13] that they've added because,
[40:16] 'cause your comments that you have on the budget
[40:21] go back to the COG
[40:25] and the COG budget doesn't formally get
[40:29] approved until we approve it in
[40:34] our meeting in December.
[40:37] So we, it's not, I don't want anybody to think
[40:41] that the COG budget is set in stone at this point.
[40:45] It's, it's, it's very fluid.
[40:47] We can, we have comments that we can make.
[40:51] Heidi was very good in,
[40:53] in making comments during the meeting.
[40:55] I think she came up to speed pretty quick.
[40:58] So this is a big increase.
[41:03] An increase we haven't seen at the COG in my time here.
[41:08] - And and how is the increased relative
[41:09] to other municipalities?
[41:12] I think I heard ours the increased
[41:14] - Ours is higher than other municipalities
[41:19] because the way they do the COG formulas
[41:22] and they've changed our, our assessment
[41:27] values have gone up because of the hospital,
[41:30] because of the,
[41:32] the Mount Nittany medical building
[41:36] and Toftrees increased.
[41:38] So our portion of COG has increased
[41:43] and that's why our portion is higher than,
[41:46] that's why it goes from 6.2 overall
[41:49] to ours being 9.2. Does that make sense?
[41:53] - It, it does. And and the presumption is that
[41:55] with the addition of the hospital
[41:56] and the Mount Nittany offices that our tax revenue has,
[42:01] has gone up because of these two additions?
[42:03] That's correct. Okay. That's correct.
[42:05] Are they the same, I mean, are they, do they do the
[42:09] the increase in taxes parallel the increase in our
[42:13] responsibility of taxes to pay to
[42:16] - Cost?
[42:17] - I'm just, - I don't think so.
[42:19] I think that the, the, the assessment
[42:24] affected us a lot more than our own
[42:26] - Tax.
[42:27] Okay. Yeah. That, that's my sense because
[42:29] - I think everybody had an increase in taxes.
[42:32] - Yep. Yeah. - So all the,
[42:35] all the water rising at every municipality,
[42:38] it doesn't affect us as much,
[42:40] but those two properties in particular Okay.
[42:43] Have increased our assessment.
[42:46] - Okay. - If we can, if,
[42:48] if people wanna hear it, if they don't that's fine.
[42:50] But yeah, go ahead.
[42:51] The, the six C, so, so there's the, there's the flat line.
[42:55] The, the big apart is the baseline
[42:58] and that to a large extent was driven
[43:00] by labor cost, the increase.
[43:02] Correct. Healthcare quite a bit higher. Right.
[43:05] They use a different formula for their inflation,
[43:08] which is higher, correct.
[43:11] 4.2%. Was that, what was the thing?
[43:13] - Yeah, because they picked - June so
[43:16] and so if you just take the, they kept the staff
[43:19] that they have, you know, as opposed
[43:20] to cutting any anybody back and then you add sig e
[43:24] and you know, we went through all the SY items
[43:27] and I just, that was fairly fluid.
[43:29] If we can say, if you remember some of 'em, they,
[43:33] they pulled some of it.
[43:35] 'cause I think that Ben recognized there's a lot of
[43:38] budget pressor pressure.
[43:40] So even before we got there and to, to talk about
[43:43] and vote for each item, they had already pulled some things
[43:47] and then they found some money underneath the cots
[43:51] and the mattress and everything.
[43:53] Yes. When the, the, the big driver was there's
[43:58] bathrooms that they have allocated money
[44:00] for in the Hess field.
[44:02] And I think these are supposed
[44:03] to be like separate buildings.
[44:05] I still don't think that's with sewer hookup.
[44:07] But anyway, it turns out the estimate of
[44:09] that cost was $200,000 less than they thought.
[44:13] That's good. So, so that money was able to be kind
[44:15] of brought back in the fold, which helped.
[44:19] So sort of soften the blow.
[44:21] So some of the things that we would've probably been opposed
[44:24] to just because of all the budget pressures here, we were,
[44:28] you know, like, oh okay, you know, you can, you can get
[44:30] that from the, the the $200,000
[44:33] that you kind of clawed back.
[44:35] So we in general as a group,
[44:38] we had supported most of the 60 items.
[44:40] The ones that we hadn't supported was
[44:44] what I think is a big driver
[44:45] because it has long term
[44:50] obligation because we don't tend to lay off people in,
[44:53] in local government.
[44:55] And that was their request for a full-time.
[44:57] They caught it janitor then,
[44:59] but they kind of changed the word
[45:00] to maintenance, just more generic.
[45:03] And we had supported a part-time but not a full-time.
[45:07] So when we voted for that, I still didn't support it.
[45:10] Part of the thing is that they have a lot
[45:14] of part-time seasonal labor that they haven't been able
[45:18] to feel to fill those spaces,
[45:22] those slots for years.
[45:24] And those are people that a lot of them mow with a lot
[45:27] of things to mow and just things like that.
[45:29] Seasonal summer, mostly summer work.
[45:32] And so I,
[45:34] and then some other of the people were sort of pushing them,
[45:37] can't you take some of the money that you know
[45:40] that you're not gonna use and put it towards the full time?
[45:45] And I think that we got a commitment.
[45:49] It's a little fluid and that's something
[45:51] that I hope patent will hold firm on that position.
[45:54] Yeah. Because I think they can do that.
[45:58] So that, that was, that was one item specifically
[46:01] with patent to try to follow.
[46:04] And then most everything else we were pretty supportive of.
[46:07] They, they're deferring the,
[46:13] wait a second, did they,
[46:14] I forgot now if they've deferred the,
[46:16] no they didn't the, the crew cab.
[46:18] But they were able to now absorb it
[46:19] because of that influx of the 200,000.
[46:24] But there was some, we ended up
[46:28] with a three three vote,
[46:29] which apparently no one has experienced before.
[46:32] On of all things the bike counters.
[46:36] Now the bike counters is something that the C-C-M-P-O
[46:40] had requested and that helps justify grants
[46:44] 'cause we want to be a biker friendly community.
[46:46] So Patton had supported that,
[46:49] but it, it turned out to be a three three vote.
[46:51] But it turned, turned out it wasn't really a three three
[46:53] vote because one of the townships, the person
[46:58] had not had, had just made a mistake.
[47:01] Just remembered. So that,
[47:03] so in the executive session they fixed that.
[47:06] So that went forward.
[47:07] So they all, if you recall the, the pools capital,
[47:12] they had an awful lot of requests
[47:14] and those are a lot of the ones that they pulled back.
[47:16] The only one that they really,
[47:18] they thought they could defer a lot of them.
[47:19] And we had actually recommended deferral some of those.
[47:22] The only thing that they actually decided was really
[47:25] important was the splash pad at, at Welch.
[47:29] You're given that look. I think that was the one I didn't,
[47:31] but they pulled, the reason we had to go with
[47:33] that was they pulled so many of the other ones,
[47:35] the pump systems they pulled,
[47:36] they pulled the water features,
[47:37] they pulled the pick the pump pump and the water heaters.
[47:41] So that's why it was like, okay
[47:43] the splash pad is a safety pad that they put
[47:46] in the pressure for little kids. Correct. Yeah,
[47:49] - I know what it - Is. It's, yeah. Yeah.
[47:51] - It was just, they it's fine. - But you're,
[47:53] are you thinking that that that's an extravagance?
[47:55] - Well it just seemed that it was more important things
[47:58] that they were sort of like advocating for,
[48:00] which was like the, the prompts and
[48:02] - I guess from, you know, we had to kind of do it real time
[48:06] but, but you know, we can still push back on these things
[48:09] but it seems like they, that this is what they felt
[48:13] and I figured that they would have more of the expertise
[48:16] and kind of deferring to them on that.
[48:18] 'cause you're right, we thought maybe that wasn't
[48:19] so necessary, but that's the one
[48:21] that they really wanted going forward.
[48:23] - Just surprising. - Interesting.
[48:24] And I guess that's for the kids, you know,
[48:26] and being safe for the kids so kids don't
[48:28] - Pay taxes.
[48:31] I said well the kids don't pay taxes
[48:34] - Happy when you take your daughter, but your little child,
[48:37] - You we'll do all.
[48:38] We went there, we were happy.
[48:41] - Anyway. So I dunno if anybody has any of the questions,
[48:44] but we'll clearly be visiting this more this, this as,
[48:48] as Amy said, there's a process with
[48:49] - All this.
[48:50] I guess it, it seems like,
[48:51] and that's, that's helpful sort of like framing it, it seems
[48:56] like it is kind of lean
[48:59] or leaner I guess.
[49:02] And so I'm just like questioning like how, like
[49:07] is it wise to sort of take a chopping block to things
[49:12] when we don't even know if it's gonna necessarily impact
[49:15] our portion?
[49:17] Correct. Correct.
[49:20] I just, so it kind of feels like I I just want you to be,
[49:23] - You - Know, aware of
[49:24] it. That sucks My
[49:28] - Concern, my concern is next year's gonna be harder.
[49:32] - It seems like they were waiting, they were
[49:33] deferring things. Yeah, yeah.
[49:34] - They're gonna dump, but they always defer
[49:36] things I think, you know what I mean? It's a little,
[49:38] - Well this one seemed like they've been
[49:39] deferring a lot of things for a bit. Yeah,
[49:41] - They, they've been deferring a lot of things
[49:42] and one item that is tangential sort of to this discussion.
[49:47] So one of the things that when we talk about assessments
[49:50] that hasn't happened in our county is our county has not
[49:53] reassessed our real estate taxes since 1994.
[49:57] And that's 120% inflation since 1994.
[50:02] And when you talk
[50:03] with anybody at the county about it, they freak out.
[50:06] Commissioner Higgins and I were at a a HUD event
[50:09] and there was a big group of people there.
[50:11] The manager from Beon Borough brought it up.
[50:12] Commissioner Higgins didn't like that and went over
[50:15] and said, you don't know what you don't know.
[50:17] Well what I know is there's a, a caveat under the law
[50:21] that it pertains to reassessment of county properties
[50:23] or properties in a county
[50:25] and it says there's a fair share component.
[50:28] And so we have all of the growth in the Centre Region
[50:31] or the majority of the growth in the Centre
[50:32] Region, the Beon area.
[50:33] So those properties are coming in
[50:35] and they all come in, we see it here
[50:37] and they fight their assessments.
[50:39] So their assessment goes down
[50:41] and then that doesn't benefit anybody.
[50:43] But the other parts of the county that don't see a lot
[50:46] of growth, they're benefiting from the new growth
[50:48] in the Centre Region.
[50:49] So because of that, the fair share might come into play
[50:52] where a property owner could come in
[50:53] and say this isn't fair.
[50:54] You're trying to sock me
[50:56] with a market rate assessment when you haven't reassessed in
[50:59] 30 years and you have other places in the county
[51:02] that are benefiting from this.
[51:04] So I understand
[51:05] that reassessment in Pennsylvania is this political
[51:08] football, but it should not be to the point
[51:11] where it's been 32 years since we've been reassessed.
[51:14] That does not help anybody.
[51:16] And when they reassess a third of the taxes go up, a third
[51:20] of the taxes go down and a third of the taxes stay the same.
[51:24] And so the Commissioners will tell you it's
[51:26] $6 million to do a reassessment.
[51:28] That's it probably is.
[51:29] 'cause they go out and they
[51:30] physically look at every property.
[51:32] But if it did it every five
[51:34] or every 10 years, there are counties, Allegheny's one
[51:37] of 'em, I think Dolphins
[51:38] and other ones, some of the ones around the RI
[51:39] of Philadelphia, they have passed policies
[51:41] that re they reassess every five to 10 years.
[51:44] And then it's not such a big deal.
[51:46] It's the counties that wait all these years
[51:49] that then it hurts your residents
[51:51] and it hurts your local governments And everybody,
[51:54] as we talked earlier with the pay plan
[51:55] and what we're doing with our CIP,
[51:58] everybody's hurting right now.
[51:59] So maybe we should all try to work together
[52:02] and row the boat in the same direction so
[52:04] that we can all stop having to defer everything
[52:07] that we need to have done.
[52:09] Our residents expect us to provide services to them.
[52:12] But we have to look at what's cost effective.
[52:14] And I just really wish the Commissioners would hear from
[52:17] they, I mean we've brought it up,
[52:19] managers have brought it up.
[52:20] I've talked with the county
[52:21] administrator about it in the past.
[52:23] They don't wanna hear from us.
[52:24] They need to hear from elected officials.
[52:26] They probably need to hear from other folks
[52:28] that this is something they need to do
[52:30] and they need to do it in 27 or 28 before this gets worse.
[52:33] Inflation is doing bad things on its own
[52:35] and then you let it go 32 years
[52:37] and it's doing really bad things.
[52:39] So what did you say the, the percent inflation has
[52:41] been 120%.
[52:42] 120% since 1994. 94. Okay.
[52:46] And the last time, fun fact, the last time
[52:49] we were reassessed in 1994, the Centre Region threatened
[52:52] to sue the county and that's what got them
[52:54] to do the reassessment.
[52:56] So why does it need to come to that?
[52:58] Why can't the commissioner sit down
[52:59] and listen to the elected officials
[53:01] and say, Hey I think it's time to do this
[53:04] because fun fact, in 1994 I was in college.
[53:07] That's a long time ago.
[53:10] - I was five years old in diapers.
[53:13] I said I was five years old in papers.
[53:18] - Okay. I'll say - How white
[53:20] - The Senate, when you say the center regent was threatened,
[53:23] Sue, would that, would that have been COG or was that
[53:25] - Collectively the municipalities?
[53:27] It was. So I believe it was collectively the municipalities,
[53:31] all of the managers that were here in 1994 are no longer.
[53:34] I mean they're still alive, but they're no longer managers.
[53:36] But I believe it collectively, the managers got together
[53:38] with the elected officials and the elected
[53:40] officials threatened to file a lawsuit.
[53:42] - Okay. - And what you also bunch up against is,
[53:47] unless you're State College
[53:48] or Ferguson, which are home rule municipalities,
[53:50] the Pennsylvania codes provide caps on
[53:53] how much your assessment or how much your tax rate can be.
[53:56] And we're getting close to ours.
[53:59] Harris Township is getting close to theirs I think,
[54:01] and I think some of the other municipalities as well.
[54:04] And the concern is that's a real problem
[54:06] because then you have to go to the court
[54:08] and you have to ask for permission to raise your taxes.
[54:11] And that's when the court ends up telling the
[54:12] county you have to reassess.
[54:13] Yeah.
[54:15] - And again, it was 1994 was the last time I said, and,
[54:18] and what, what is, what's the formula for the ceiling
[54:23] that you couldn't raise it anymore?
[54:25] - It's in the state code.
[54:26] So the second class Township code says,
[54:28] and I don't even know what it is,
[54:30] - I can't - Remember, but it has a,
[54:32] you can't go above a certain amount. So,
[54:34] - So many amounts.
[54:35] - And when you I could, I
[54:36] - Could get that.
[54:37] Yeah, we should maybe we could talk about
[54:39] - Tomorrow and when you, Friday. Friday, I
[54:41] - Mean - That's right.
[54:43] Friday and when you do a reassessment, you're not allowed
[54:45] to raise your taxes in the same year that you reassess.
[54:47] So what happens is your tax rate jumps down.
[54:50] So your ta our tax rate is 12.1 right now. Right? Yes.
[54:54] So it likely will drop
[54:55] because with the reassessment it resets everything
[54:58] and re-level out.
[55:00] So when they did this in 1994,
[55:02] Harris Township was at like 13.1
[55:05] and it dropped down to 3.1 mills.
[55:07] And you can't raise taxes.
[55:08] But you typically, it's supposed to be revenue neutral.
[55:10] Right. But it helps you bring things up to the cost of what
[55:14] the market is today.
[55:18] - Well there's a, there's a political cost to
[55:21] - Yes. For elected
[55:22] - Officials to changing
[55:24] and that's what's, that's the tough part.
[55:27] And I think, you know, it's, it's tough to talk about,
[55:30] - But it has downstream effects, which is
[55:33] what we're talking for elected officials.
[55:35] We have a good context. Well not for elected of official,
[55:36] I'm talking about min municipalities. Well
[55:38] - It it's that too, which - Is why we're municipal.
[55:40] - But I think the reluctance to agree
[55:43] to a reassessment has to do with,
[55:46] - Well, and this is where the state of
[55:48] of Pennsylvania really needs to step in
[55:50] and just say you have
[55:51] to do it every 10 years with the census.
[55:54] That would make it mandated.
[55:55] And then there was a county out west somewhere they hadn't
[55:59] reassessed since 1968.
[56:01] Do you know how much the world has changed since 1968?
[56:05] Like that seems ridiculous.
[56:06] So if the, if the state said you have
[56:08] to do it every 10 years, that would benefit everybody.
[56:12] Everybody knows it's coming.
[56:13] It becomes less of a political football.
[56:15] Yeah. And it gets done.
[56:17] - So the, so this isn't an agenda item,
[56:20] but I guess my wonder is could we direct staff to give us
[56:24] outline more details about this particular
[56:29] issue, its impact sort of on our, our
[56:34] budget revenue sort of like stuff
[56:36] and sort of like ways we can move forward toward advocating.
[56:40] - Yeah. - Just to have something more clear and coherent in
[56:44] - Writing.
[56:45] And also I, and included in that
[56:47] or ancillary to that is we've brought up
[56:52] the previous meeting, the discussion about home rule.
[56:55] Yes. About looking into that.
[56:56] And I know that we've agreed which would, would help us
[57:00] to a certain extent, but the
[57:01] problem's still not gonna go away.
[57:04] - Well home rule helps
[57:06] because in home rule you set your own real estate transfer
[57:09] tax percentage, you can move that up
[57:11] or down, you can move your EIT percentage up or down.
[57:14] You get tools that we are not allowed to have right now
[57:16] because we're a second class Township.
[57:19] So that really helps us drive our own bus, which is good.
[57:23] The Borough will tell you they still have issues
[57:24] with the assessment on the
[57:25] properties because of the way it is.
[57:27] There's, and we can get you some more information.
[57:30] I'm by no means an expert on any of this,
[57:31] but there's a common level ratio
[57:33] that gets applied when you buy a property.
[57:36] We're so far off the comp, we're like,
[57:38] it's 7.2% off the common level ratio now.
[57:40] So it's, it's becoming more of an issue as we go on.
[57:45] And I know there are more the beon manager,
[57:47] the Harris manager myself more that are talking about it now
[57:50] because of the impact on our communities.
[57:53] - Okay. Yeah. - Yeah.
[57:55] It would be, it would be useful
[57:56] for us to understand it better.
[57:58] - So are you saying that Harris
[57:59] and Bellon are looking at home rule or that they're,
[58:01] - They're looking at assessment?
[58:02] No, they're not looking at assessment at both at home rule.
[58:04] But I know that both have, last year I reached out
[58:07] to the other managers and talked about it briefly
[58:09] and I know Harris had said the manager had said something
[58:11] about it and then the bellmont manager had brought it up
[58:13] when we were at this HUD meeting a couple weeks ago.
[58:15] - Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got him stuff. Okay.
[58:21] Thank you for that. Any,
[58:22] anybody have any other comments on the, any
[58:25] of the committee report? Oh yeah,
[58:27] - Go ahead.
[58:28] I was gonna mention about the C-C-M-P-O.
[58:31] I was there, we had a meeting last night
[58:34] and I, by the way, yeah, it's, I get credit apparently
[58:38] for Larry writing the report just,
[58:40] but it was Larry that writes that
[58:41] for the finance, just so you know. So
[58:44] - You never - Wrote that report.
[58:46] Thank you Larry. Thank you.
[58:48] But I don't want to be a fraud on that.
[58:49] Anyway, so the only the they spent, I, I won't go
[58:54] through the, it was a long meeting and everything,
[58:56] but the thing I wanted to mention,
[58:57] 'cause I think some of you are interested in the rail study,
[59:00] we had to prove that it was, that there was a draft on that.
[59:04] And we talked about that a fair bit.
[59:06] And I'm not knowledgeable at all about, about it,
[59:10] but I would love if we could actually have rail come here.
[59:14] And I think most people do.
[59:16] So the, they had
[59:20] concluded they had like four options
[59:24] and basically two of 'em have to do with getting us
[59:29] to the, the more of the major hubs for rail,
[59:33] which would be like Harrisburg or Altoona through bus.
[59:38] Bus. And then you go and,
[59:40] and just make it so that it's
[59:43] I guess more regular and things like that.
[59:45] Those are the, and then I don't, there's a little difference
[59:47] between the next two.
[59:49] One of them was to take existing lines.
[59:52] I guess it went to miles, I think,
[59:55] I think the rail goes there that I think is, has
[59:58] commercial traffic like and
[1:00:01] but not rail to make it so that you could have passenger
[1:00:05] there would still, and we talked, I'm the one
[1:00:08] that asked the question how much
[1:00:09] because they, they made it like the, the recommendation was
[1:00:13] to do the ones that are cheap, the cheap ones,
[1:00:14] which is basically take the bus,
[1:00:17] which we kind of already do now.
[1:00:19] And, and so, and so I asked the question
[1:00:21] 'cause I said I guess this is just too expensive.
[1:00:23] It's like a pipe dream here
[1:00:24] and how much, so anyway,
[1:00:28] finally they would talk more numbers.
[1:00:30] So to do the one, so, so let's say the,
[1:00:34] the Cadillac version, which is like getting Amtrak here
[1:00:39] from, but the question is from
[1:00:40] where you mean like from Philadelphia to like State College
[1:00:44] or it could be the airport,
[1:00:46] but someplace right here in the Centre Region.
[1:00:49] Yeah. Okay. I hear you. That's the, that's the Cadillac.
[1:00:51] The one below that I think would be going to Miles work
[1:00:54] and using existing rail, but you still have to do upgrades.
[1:00:57] So between, it sounds like the, the, the, the
[1:01:03] non Cadillac, the Volkswagen version
[1:01:05] of it would be still hundreds of millions of dollars.
[1:01:09] So a still big ticket.
[1:01:12] The, the full tilt thing, Amtrak,
[1:01:17] and again, these are just kind not exactly wild as,
[1:01:19] 'cause the guy that was mentioning it had a lot
[1:01:22] of experience, but,
[1:01:24] or gave it finally gave some hint of numbers.
[1:01:27] It sounds like it would be closer to
[1:01:28] that billion dollar mark.
[1:01:30] The higher, hundreds of millions,
[1:01:32] potentially a billion dollars.
[1:01:34] But the point that was made is the connector that we have
[1:01:36] that's going in, that has been funded,
[1:01:39] that is like a billion dollars.
[1:01:41] So what what the,
[1:01:46] the consensus is, is that if we wanna do the,
[1:01:50] the community wants more of the rail,
[1:01:54] but you have to do baby steps.
[1:01:56] So we have to start by doing the cheap options
[1:01:59] with a bus thing and prove that we're using the,
[1:02:03] the railroad service that we're to Harrisburg
[1:02:08] and, and that that then can build on itself to justify
[1:02:13] the traffic to do the more expensive things potentially.
[1:02:17] So I think that as a, in, as a organization,
[1:02:21] C-C-M-P-O is going to make, keep that like the short,
[1:02:26] the shorter term vision and the longer term vision.
[1:02:29] Keep that in there.
[1:02:31] And I may well be dead before they can do the one
[1:02:36] and maybe they never will.
[1:02:37] But, but you have to dream big.
[1:02:40] So that's kind of the dream one.
[1:02:42] But with people that have chutzpah
[1:02:45] and that, that have experience.
[1:02:47] So it's not a complete fantasy, I would say.
[1:02:50] So, so it's possible that we could get it,
[1:02:52] but we have to kind of go with this roadmap of, of,
[1:02:56] of fighting what we can do.
[1:02:58] So that's kind of a long-winded way of saying that
[1:03:00] that hasn't died at all.
[1:03:02] And, and,
[1:03:03] and there was a lot of comments regarding that study
[1:03:06] because there was a lot of stakeholders that,
[1:03:09] that participated in this, in that, which was a big deal.
[1:03:13] And if you asked me a list of like, I mean, Amtrak was one
[1:03:16] of 'em then am there's, there's another,
[1:03:18] I forget which one PennDOT was involved with it, but,
[1:03:22] but important stakeholders
[1:03:24] and people that also had experience across the state
[1:03:28] of Pennsylvania doing a lot of this kind
[1:03:30] of work that had been involved.
[1:03:31] And the other thing that kind of came up
[1:03:33] that I'll just mention is that, you know,
[1:03:35] just like COG apparently is the gold standard.
[1:03:37] Our C-C-M-P-O is apparently a gold standard
[1:03:40] that the particular one we have is
[1:03:42] very well run, apparently.
[1:03:44] So just thought I mentioned that too,
[1:03:47] - In the spirit of LA it seems like, from what I hear,
[1:03:51] we just need to keep chugging along.
[1:03:55] - Said the funny part, - We just keep,
[1:03:57] need to keep chugging along. We keep
[1:03:59] - Chugging along and we, and we keep optimistic.
[1:04:02] Thank you. Yeah, that was awesome. Yes.
[1:04:05] - There - You go. Love you Elliot. Yeah.
[1:04:07] - You - Know, follow the yellow bit prick record.
[1:04:11] - I, I just, I just wanna chime in really quickly
[1:04:14] that if you actually look at a map of the state
[1:04:17] of Pennsylvania, you look at the rail tracks that are
[1:04:19] already laid down
[1:04:21] and you look at any historical rail tracks, you'll see
[1:04:24] that there is nothing that goes direct
[1:04:26] from State College Philadelphia.
[1:04:27] So nothing that goes east of State College. Yep.
[1:04:30] And it has to do with geography.
[1:04:32] So it has to do with the mountains.
[1:04:34] Anyway, I'm not gonna go any farther than that,
[1:04:36] but, so I don't, we're getting off subject.
[1:04:39] Thank you. Okay.
[1:04:40] But I, I did wanna say something about the finance
[1:04:42] committee, which I did not sit on,
[1:04:44] but I was in the executive committee,
[1:04:46] which talked about the finance committee.
[1:04:49] And one thing that I found out was
[1:04:53] from Ben Elle, our executive director of course, of, of COG,
[1:04:58] that the, that he is pushing for a number
[1:05:02] of the changes.
[1:05:03] Basically trying to put reason
[1:05:06] and process into a system that has been sort
[1:05:10] of bootstrapped from 1967 with
[1:05:14] something small working on a small scale
[1:05:16] and somebody else comes along
[1:05:17] and everything's been going on the same way.
[1:05:21] And, you know, change is hard for everybody.
[1:05:23] So I give a lot of credit to him for
[1:05:28] really just diving right into these opportunities
[1:05:31] to make things a little bit more,
[1:05:35] to run a little more smoothly.
[1:05:38] And I think he, like Larry,
[1:05:39] I think he just gets up in the morning
[1:05:40] and says, you know what, what can I look at today?
[1:05:43] So he, he really does put a lot of time
[1:05:46] and energy into it, so kudos to him.
[1:05:48] And then kudos to everybody on the finance committee
[1:05:52] that their meetings were four hours long.
[1:05:55] And, and then kudos to also Kimberly
[1:05:58] and Corey who are on staff
[1:06:01] and they actually had to enter data
[1:06:06] because we've got gone to a new system,
[1:06:08] which is called Clear
[1:06:09] - Gov.
[1:06:10] Clear gov, yeah. It's a big deal that they did
[1:06:11] that it's gonna make it easier
[1:06:12] - In the future.
[1:06:13] So they, they had to enter data not just for this year,
[1:06:15] but for two previous years.
[1:06:16] - They'll make it easier and more transparency.
[1:06:18] That's one thing we're really
[1:06:19] trying to push for is transparency.
[1:06:20] - Yeah. So, so they're looking at
[1:06:21] practicality and transparency. Yeah. And so that's,
[1:06:24] - And the two - Have to go together.
[1:06:25] - And I wanna add one more thing,
[1:06:26] if I cannot back redo about the
[1:06:28] finance on the finance stuff.
[1:06:30] You know, there's been discussions about the balance fund,
[1:06:33] the, the finance committee
[1:06:34] before I balance got involved, I've spent a lot
[1:06:37] of effort trying to get this balance fund in, in place.
[1:06:42] And the idea, we are gonna roll it out
[1:06:43] in probably five years.
[1:06:45] So this 2027 supposed to be the first year
[1:06:48] because of the budget pressures and
[1:06:50] because there's a, Ben made the assessment that they have
[1:06:56] essentially enough in the balance funds
[1:06:58] by sharing through agencies.
[1:07:00] 'cause some agencies are completely full plus extra
[1:07:04] and some don't have
[1:07:05] what they should have in the balance fund
[1:07:07] that we're taking a hiatus this year, technically
[1:07:11] of contributing to it 2027.
[1:07:13] Do you wanna add anything to that, Linda?
[1:07:14] - No, that's, - That's, so just so you know, that's
[1:07:18] what we're, that's what the finance committee recommended
[1:07:20] as well, kind of, we discussed that too.
[1:07:22] So if you don't hear so about the balance fund, it's not
[1:07:26] that it's gone away, it's just that we're sort of,
[1:07:31] it's sort of in there good enough for next year.
[1:07:35] - Yeah. So anyway, I was in
[1:07:40] tremendous admiration of what was going on.
[1:07:42] I'm not, not, that's not in my wheelhouse,
[1:07:44] but I certainly understand the work
[1:07:48] and care that people put into it.
[1:07:50] And especially this year with the decision
[1:07:54] to make some changes, fundamental changes.
[1:07:57] Yeah. So I'm gonna call out them anything else?
[1:08:03] And for committee reports, if not,
[1:08:05] I guess we're onto other business, so move,
[1:08:07] oh no other business.
[1:08:09] And then I guess we're onto item 12, which is adjournment.
[1:08:15] So who, oh, did you do it first?
[1:08:18] He's, well he's so moved. That did it. Okay. That's it.
[1:08:22] That's all we need. Alright. Almost record.
[1:08:25] Is that record time? Yeah, almost record time.
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