[0:47] >> I'll call this meeting to order.
[0:49] ms. Fasone, please call roll.
[0:50] >> council member coburn?
[0:51] >> yes.
[0:52] >> councilman register?
[0:54] >> yes, ma'am.
[0:55] >> vice mayor jarman?
[0:56] >> yes.
[0:57] >> council member casto?
[0:58] >> yes.
[0:59] >> mayor tettemer?
[1:00] >> first up is a presentation on
[1:03] the beach flag system by chief morgan.
[1:06] did we get the projector working?
[1:09] last minute I.t. Work, good job.
[1:11] >> mayor, council, I'm going to
[1:13] let director paul do the presentation
[1:16] today since this is his expertise and
[1:19] division.
[1:20] >> I appreciate the opportunity to
[1:21] engage with you on how to make our
[1:23] beaches safer, so with that, I'll
[1:25] turn it over to director paul.
[1:27] >> director paul?
[1:29] >> mayor, council, good the afternoon.
[1:32] so, my name's [inaudible] paul, city
[1:36] of panama beach fire rescue.
[1:37] I've been a lifeguard for over a
[1:41] decade, a fireman for a little longer,
[1:49] just rolling through the slide.
[1:56] there we go.
[2:01] so, my process of how I judge how
[2:05] hazardous the rip currents are every
[2:06] day is that every morning, I visit the
[2:08] shore line, I drive up and down the
[2:10] beach every morning from monday to
[2:14] monday every day.
[2:17] I visit various beaches, depending on
[2:20] the conditions, the wind and what the
[2:23] direction of the swell, how
[2:25] everything's coming in, our tide
[2:26] shift, I check out various spots.
[2:27] our flag system is a standardized
[2:41] system.
[2:42] it's created by the international
[2:44] lifesaving federation and then the
[2:45] united states lifesaving association
[2:47] which is the governing body for open
[2:51] water lifeguard adopted that system.
[2:53] and they include it into our training
[2:57] for our water open lifeguards.
[2:59] the first flag is a yellow flag, a
[3:02] medium hazard, this pertains to rip
[3:04] currents, we base our flags off of rip
[3:07] current, not so much wave action.
[3:09] single red flag means it's a high rip
[3:12] hazard, double red means the water's
[3:14] closed to the public.
[3:17] purple is marine pests such as jelly
[3:19] fish.
[3:20] all of this is directed all of the
[3:24] life safety federation's website for
[3:26] how they define the flags and their
[3:28] use, and also the pictures how they're
[3:31] depicted, the double red with a single
[3:34] red and a flag depicted beneath that.
[3:45] green flags is their statement on
[3:47] green flags.
[3:48] in some areas of the u.s., green flags
[3:51] are flown the indicate calm or mild
[3:54] conditions.
[3:55] international lifesaving federation
[3:56] considered this carefully and decided
[3:57] not to adopt the green flag.
[3:59] the primary reason is the fact that
[4:01] wills always a potential hazard
[4:04] present and that the view that it is
[4:08] best to notify people when conditions
[4:11] are unusually changing, rather than
[4:13] suggest they are ever completely safe.
[4:18] rip currents can form anywhere at any
[4:20] time and that has a lot to do with our
[4:23] sand, our sand is real fine and loose,
[4:29] as waste buildup and hit sand bar, it
[4:33] creates deep spots, and the picture on
[4:35] the left here, you see a green flag
[4:37] flying and you see pretty calm
[4:40] conditions.
[4:41] what most people would generally call
[4:43] a green flag day.
[4:44] on the picture to your right, you have
[4:48] pretty much mirrored the same
[4:50] conditions here, you have a shallow
[4:52] sand bar, a deep spot and then a
[4:55] shallow sand bar on the other side,
[4:56] you can see those with waves breaking
[4:59] across the sand bar.
[5:01] just to assess rip current wills
[5:03] always be present and there's always a
[5:06] hazard, this picture was taken
[5:07] immediately after our crews entered
[5:08] the water and rescued a ten year-old
[5:10] boy so, they made a rescue and a
[5:15] concerning note about this picture,
[5:17] even though our crews entered the
[5:18] water, made the rescue, people still
[5:19] walked right by us and got back into
[5:22] the rip current.
[5:23] so, this is our guideline on yellow
[5:28] flags, I mean, I'm sorry, on the flag
[5:30] system about how we work it every
[5:33] morning and it's guideline.
[5:36] we can move around with it the best we
[5:39] can and we always try to fly to the
[5:43] highest hazard in the beach.
[5:44] every morning I collaborate with my
[5:57] counterpart at the sheriff's office,
[5:58] they have a surf patrol that works the
[6:01] far end of the county on the east and
[6:04] west and I call him every morning and
[6:06] we talk about conditions, the weather,
[6:09] we talk about the tide, what the
[6:11] tide's doing.
[6:12] we talk about staffing in case we need
[6:15] like mutual aid resources requested,
[6:18] things like that.
[6:19] him and I work together on the best
[6:21] flag call for the entire island.
[6:29] our coverage, we staff lifeguards that
[6:31] fill city pier at private partnership
[6:34] from april 1 to september 31, we have
[6:38] roving patrols spanning 9.6 miles.
[6:42] in 2023, our lifeguards were able to
[6:47] complete 237 rescues, 2542 public
[6:51] assists, a public assists where the
[6:54] lifeguard proactively entered the
[6:56] water and prevented a rescue from
[6:59] happening, so prevented the emergency
[7:00] in the first place.
[7:02] the preventative actions, 172 thousand
[7:04] 51, that's where the lifeguard noticed
[7:06] somebody was setting up their beach,
[7:08] like their beach towel or their tent
[7:15] umbrella in front of a rip or walking
[7:16] towards a rip and he decided to
[7:17] proactively grab those people and
[7:18] moved them to a safer place to be.
[7:23] 37 medicals and 6073 calls for service.
[7:27] every morning I'm checking the weather
[7:30] forecast, checking the surf forecast.
[7:32] I always check the tide charts and I
[7:35] collaborate with noaa, the
[7:38] national weather service, and I
[7:39] utilize the noaa's five day rip
[7:48] current, noaa always putting out --
[7:50] they're gauging their data off of
[7:53] buoys and whether to kind of forecast
[7:56] the rip currents in your area, so I
[7:59] always take that into account.
[8:01] I take the tide charts into account,
[8:05] the winds,, but still every morning
[8:06] you have to go down to the shore line
[8:08] and put eyes to it.
[8:10] our lifeguards every morning get to
[8:12] the city pier, sometimes we go to the
[8:14] other parts of the water to get into
[8:17] the water and have a physical test in
[8:19] the rip currents, we try to see how
[8:23] strong they're pulling at that time of
[8:24] day and we try to gauge where we'll be
[8:26] closer to the end of the day.
[8:31] this is a multiagency collaborative
[8:33] effort here, we all work together,
[8:37] panama city beach fire rescue beach
[8:40] safety, bay county sheriff's office,
[8:42] bay county emergency services from
[8:45] orange beach, gulf shores alabama all
[8:48] the way to us is the emerald coast, we
[8:52] talk together about if there's a major
[8:54] storm or something in the gulf moving
[8:56] in, we try to collaborate our efforts
[8:58] together, work together.
[9:01] noaa, national weather service and bay
[9:03] county emergency services.
[9:04] how we notify the community is the
[9:07] major thing is alert bay.
[9:09] we post our flag conditions which will
[9:12] retain more to what our rip currents
[9:14] are doing on the day at our website,
[9:18] social media and local news media.
[9:21] alert bay has really proven to be the
[9:24] greatest asset tool for communication
[9:26] to the community but it requires
[9:28] people to subscribe to the text abert.
[9:32] if you subscribe to the test alert,
[9:36] text pcb flags to 888777, every
[9:39] morning you'll get a text alert to our
[9:42] flag system and what it's doing for the
[9:44] day.
[9:45] a little bit about rip currents is
[9:47] that how they work here, you've got
[9:52] two shallow sand bases and you'll have
[9:55] a deep spot, as waves spill over on to
[9:59] the sand bank, it moves the sand away
[10:02] creating that.
[10:04] as waves wash into store, the water
[10:06] washing up to the shore line and
[10:08] recedes back into the sea, it's going
[10:10] the focus on that deep spot.
[10:13] you have to watch your tide shift,
[10:16] anything over a foot drives concern
[10:18] for me, as your tide shifts down
[10:20] throughout the day, if you're at high
[10:23] tide and gauge your currents in the
[10:25] morning, you have this less space
[10:28] across the shallow sand bar but still
[10:31] have the same amount of volume coming
[10:33] in, so your rip currents are going to
[10:35] get stronger throughout the day and
[10:37] like I said, rip currents can form
[10:40] anywhere at any time.
[10:43] so, that's all I have for that.
[10:45] do you have questions for me?
[10:46] >> director paul, how often does a
[10:49] flag change during the day?
[10:51] >> right, so we always try to flag to
[10:53] the highest hazard in the area, so say
[10:56] like more over to the beach, it may be
[10:59] yellow flag conditions but over here
[11:01] we may have developed rip currents, we
[11:02] try to flag to that, you may have a
[11:05] single red so we'll flag uniformity
[11:09] and consistency, we'll flag the same
[11:11] flag across the 18 miles of beach for
[11:14] the whole island.
[11:15] when we fly a flag and for me, if we
[11:20] start getting a few water rescue calls
[11:23] and they're consistent and pretty
[11:25] close together, that's telling me that
[11:27] the rip currents are now a little more
[11:31] developed and the conditions that are
[11:34] present are beyond the capabilities of
[11:37] the individuals on the shore and the
[11:38] people in the water, so in order to
[11:42] prevent a drowning, prevent an
[11:46] incident and prevent anything bad from
[11:48] happening for our first responders,
[11:51] we'll put up double reds.
[11:52] >> okay.
[11:53] so, you know how frequent because I
[11:56] noticed that's been happening a decent
[11:58] amount recently.
[11:59] >> I don't have a number for you how
[12:01] frequent it is.
[12:02] >> it was a surprise question.
[12:04] >> you always have -- I'm always
[12:06] looking out for that in case we do
[12:08] need to upgrade.
[12:10] >> one other question, do you think we
[12:13] should change our warning signage if
[12:15] we're never going to fly a
[12:17] green flag?
[12:18] >> I think our information needs to be
[12:21] consistent.
[12:22] the information that the's along the
[12:24] boardwalks and anything that's posted
[12:26] is very important to me.
[12:27] I think it all should be consistent
[12:29] even how we fly the flags.
[12:32] when you fly a double red flag, you
[12:34] should have a sign red with something
[12:37] beneath it, we shouldn't mix the two,
[12:39] it needs to stay consistent.
[12:41] >> questions from council?
[12:42] >> yeah, I want to clarify one thing
[12:44] with the alert bay warnings, isn't
[12:47] there a geofence when you go to double
[12:49] red that you're not required to be
[12:51] signed up for alert bay to get that
[12:53] alert?
[12:54] >> I believe they do have a geofence
[12:57] capability but I'm not in charge of
[12:58] that.
[12:59] >> are we utilizing that?
[13:00] I believe we are.
[13:01] I have seen a lot of my guests and I
[13:04] would assume at the hotel that are
[13:07] getting that alert around the pool
[13:10] deck, they're inside of that geofenced
[13:13] area, does anybody have an answer for
[13:14] that?
[13:15] >> tdc sends that out for the
[13:18] geofencing, if you're in that area,
[13:19] you will get that alert.
[13:20] >> whether you're flying a flag in the
[13:24] morning, you're taking into account
[13:25] the coastal sea breeze pick-up in the
[13:27] afternoon that we always are
[13:29] accustomed to?
[13:30] >> I always try to, I try to make the
[13:32] educated flag call for the information
[13:34] that's presented to me at the time
[13:39] which is a weather forecast, I take
[13:40] that with a grain of salt and then
[13:41] what I see in front of me in the
[13:42] moment.
[13:43] >> it's time consuming for you guys to
[13:46] change how many flags do we have
[13:48] inside the city limit, flag poles?
[13:50] >> the city of panama city beach
[13:52] has 28, we change 26.
[13:55] there's a few at the county pier that
[13:58] the county guards take care of, so we
[14:01] take care of 26 flag poles.
[14:03] >> how long do you say it would take
[14:05] your team to change those and upgrade
[14:08] those?
[14:10] >> about 45 minutes.
[14:11] >> okay.
[14:13] 45 minutes is a long time when rip
[14:16] currents develop, alright, fantastic,
[14:18] thank you, I appreciate everything you
[14:19] do, thank you.
[14:20] >> thank you.
[14:36] >> is there a possible rip current in
[14:38] this area, I wouldn't want to say
[14:41] affirmative?
[14:42] >> the flag system the great secondary
[14:44] tool utilized by the lifeguard and
[14:47] lifeguards use local swim flags to
[14:49] mark rip currents, it's like a no
[14:55] swimmer flag, we'll go to one side of
[14:56] the rip, post it, go to the other side
[14:57] and post it.
[14:58] as we're doing our preventative
[15:00] actions, we'll point to that area and
[15:01] say no swimming between those two
[15:03] flags. Sh
[15:06] >> we're doing that now?
[15:07] >> at guarded beaches.
[15:08] if you start carrying out these flags,
[15:09] they could be costly, as you stake
[15:10] them and put them down, they end up
[15:13] being stolen, they turn into great
[15:16] souvenirs, and each flag is about 100
[15:22] bucks, each flag.
[15:23] >> thank you.
[15:25] >> do you see rips form more prevalent
[15:32] during a certain time of the year?
[15:33] it's constant?
[15:37] >> yeah, rip currents can form
[15:43] anywhere at any time and it's all
[15:47] dependent on the conditions that are
[15:48] leading up to that day and in our area
[15:53] along the emerald coast, our rip
[15:55] currents can linger.
[15:58] that we'll fly a few days of double
[16:00] red flags, the first day will be
[16:02] pretty rough, as the conditions are ce
[16:04] receding and calming down, we'll keep
[16:07] our double reds up and then even
[16:10] slowly downgraded to a single rip and
[16:13] then from there because our rip
[16:16] currents will linger and the hazard
[16:18] that -- the issue that's really
[16:20] prevalent is that when people visit
[16:23] our shore line, they'll see the surf,
[16:25] it looks really calm, it looses very
[16:28] inviting, it's clear blue skies and
[16:30] looks really nice but the rip currents
[16:32] are still wringing.
[16:33] you really only need about three to
[16:35] five mile an hour winds coming out of
[16:38] the south, southwest, southeast to
[16:40] really power a rip current.
[16:42] our rip currents are formed by wave
[16:44] action that obverses sand away out of
[16:47] the shallow sand bars and make deep
[16:48] spots but as the wind pushes the
[16:51] waves, as the winds creates these
[16:52] waves and pushes the water up to
[16:55] the shore line, it recedes back out so
[16:58] your rip currents will always be
[17:01] working, they do work off of a time
[17:04] interval, so your rip currents are
[17:05] always going to be working until the
[17:07] wind dies or shifts.
[17:09] >> makes sense.
[17:10] >> you see less rip currents with a
[17:14] north wind than you would a wind up
[17:16] coming out of the south pushing water
[17:18] up on to the beach?
[17:19] >> so, the north wind will shift from
[17:23] the north and lay the surf down and it
[17:25] will look flat on that green flag day,
[17:28] you would probably have a north wind
[17:32] that makes the water look that flat
[17:34] but this's still a little bit of a --
[17:37] you can't notice it, there's still
[17:39] a swell, there's water still moving,
[17:42] there's still currents moving, so even
[17:45] then on a north wind day, your rip
[17:47] currents will still work and on those
[17:49] days, the calmer days are the ones we
[17:54] typically get most of our rescues.
[17:58] >> the north wind is lying down the
[18:01] first 500 yards of the beach that we
[18:03] can see, and most of our north winds
[18:05] are seasonally doing the wintertime.
[18:08] >> we'll get north winds even in the
[18:11] summer in the morning and as the
[18:13] temperature over the land and over the
[18:16] sea changes, it will shift back on to
[18:18] land, you will have a sea breeze.
[18:19] >> okay.
[18:23] >> darryl, just so the public will
[18:25] know and I think most of you do know
[18:28] this, but we have three public places
[18:32] on the beach where lifeguards are
[18:34] provided the city pier, the county
[18:39] pier and rick seltzer park and there's
[18:43] other privateer resorts here, holiday
[18:47] inn and boardwalks participating in
[18:53] our public/private partnership.
[18:55] is that correct?
[18:56] is that the only -- I don't think
[18:59] state park provides lifeguards either,
[19:01] do they?
[19:02] >> the city of panama beach staffs
[19:05] lifeguards at the pier, we have a
[19:10] private partnership with broad walk
[19:12] that goes from april to september.
[19:14] the county does staff lifeguards at
[19:17] the county pier and at the rick
[19:21] seltzer park.
[19:22] >> so, you use your rovers to cover
[19:24] the areas in between those on four
[19:27] wheelers and how many guards do you
[19:30] currently have?
[19:31] >> right, so on patrol, I don't
[19:34] consider any of those roving patrol on
[19:38] a guarded beach, you can't --
[19:40] >> it takes too long to get to them.
[19:43] >> we have nine full time lifeguards,
[19:46] that includes myself and six seasonal.
[19:48] >> in your opinion, do you have enough
[19:51] lifeguards to do your job effectively?
[19:59] >> no, he doesn't.
[20:02] >> what was that?
[20:03] >> no, you don't.
[20:06] >> I'm not trying to put you on the
[20:08] spot.
[20:09] have you guys done a plan, I was
[20:12] talking to ben with the tdc and he
[20:15] suggested the city and the county do a
[20:18] plan to let him know and the tdc is
[20:24] contributing some more money, a couple
[20:26] of these guys up here sit on that
[20:29] board and they are going to give us
[20:31] some more money for lifeguards but he
[20:34] did mention a plan, so he would know
[20:36] what you guys being the professionals
[20:39] are recommending, that he would be
[20:40] able to provide all of them one year
[20:42] but maybe that's a goal that we could
[20:47] reach.
[20:48] has there been a plan done that you're
[20:49] aware of recently, I know back in the
[20:50] day, they did one and they didn't go
[20:54] through with it, it was too expensive
[20:57] to provide.
[20:59] it was tourists mostly that were
[21:01] drowning and the council at the time
[21:02] didn't feel like it was fair to tax
[21:06] with an ad valorem tax the local
[21:09] people that are not drowning, it's --
[21:12] from the data that I saw that you guys
[21:17] collected, it's 90% tourists that are
[21:19] drowning, it's not local people.
[21:21] >> sure, with our transient
[21:23] population, the real burden upon the
[21:25] lifeguard is we're preventative in
[21:27] nature, we're proactive.
[21:30] we don't -- we try to prevent
[21:32] the rescue or the emergency from
[21:33] happening in the first place so we're
[21:35] trying to talk to as many people as we
[21:39] can, 2023, we talked to 1.1 million,
[21:44] with a staff -- at that time, it was 8
[21:47] including me, we talked to a lot of
[21:50] people.
[21:51] there are various plans that could work
[21:52] for the city, different methods,
[21:56] different tactics, we don't have to
[21:58] reinvent the wheel I believe but,
[22:03] yeah, and the presence of a trained
[22:07] lifeguard, you have a one in 18
[22:09] million chance of drowning in front of
[22:12] a properly trained united states
[22:15] lifesaving association accredited
[22:16] lifeguard.
[22:17] >> how many feet apart do they
[22:21] recommend the lifeguards?
[22:23] >> the industry standard is every 8th
[22:25] of a mile, but even with that industry
[22:29] standard, that's not set by osha,
[22:31] that's not sent my nfpa, that's what
[22:35] all the other united states life
[22:39] association accredited agencies, we
[22:40] all collaborate together across the
[22:42] country and we talk about our staffing
[22:43] and that is just the number that we
[22:46] found works.
[22:48] a lifeguard every 8th of a mile.
[22:50] for our shore line, we can implore
[22:52] different tactics and we can implore
[22:57] maybe a wider spacing that could work
[22:59] for us.
[23:00] even the agencies that try to meet
[23:02] that standard can't maintain that
[23:04] standard of a lifeguard every 8th of a
[23:06] mile.
[23:08] >> maybe you may know, do we have a
[23:13] plan, an updated plan that we could
[23:15] get to dan or you could direct staff
[23:18] to try to take the old one and dust it
[23:22] off and we have a lot more people here
[23:25] now.
[23:26] maybe we need more, but he did ask for
[23:27] a plan today when I was talking to
[23:29] him, so maybe we can try to get him
[23:33] one.
[23:34] I'm asking why too many questions.
[23:35] >> I think that's worth discussing in
[23:38] a little bit.
[23:41] director paul, can you talk about the
[23:42] importance of a lifeguard beach versus
[23:45] the roving patrols you're doing now
[23:46] and what the difference is, the way
[23:52] the lifeguards act at a lifeguard
[23:55] beach versus roving patrols?
[23:56] >> sure, like I said before, the very
[23:59] nature of a lifeguard is to be
[24:02] proactive and preventative, to first
[24:03] make contact with individuals
[24:05] visioning the beach, being that person
[24:09] on the sand with the community
[24:11] outreach that's going to warn you of a
[24:13] rip current, educate you on what a rip
[24:15] current is.
[24:17] tell you where the safe place to swim
[24:19] is.
[24:20] as far as roving patrol, our
[24:25] lifeguards, when staffing permits,
[24:26] we have one roving patrol for
[24:28] the entire city proper.
[24:32] that puts a lot of work on that one
[24:35] lifeguard to make a lot of public
[24:37] contacts and a lot of preventative
[24:39] actions and like I said, rip currents
[24:41] could form anywhere at any time and if
[24:45] you google image our shore line a lot,
[24:47] you'll see rips, rips, rips, so that
[24:49] makes up for a tough day.
[24:53] I'm sorry, what was the rest of your
[24:56] question.
[24:57] what's the difference.
[24:58] >> yeah.
[24:59] >> long story short, I can talk to you
[25:01] all day about that.
[25:02] the lifeguards --
[25:03] >> we have about ten minutes.
[25:05] >> the lifeguard's going to be there
[25:06] to be proactive, not like a reactive
[25:09] service, we're very proactive.
[25:13] you shouldn't see rescues at a
[25:15] lifeguard beach, you should only see
[25:19] public assistance.
[25:21] >> lifeguards at beaches is a
[25:23] different animal than the roving
[25:25] patrols we have now, the roving
[25:27] patrols seem like a bandage, I
[25:30] don't want to put words in your mouth,
[25:32] we're doing what we can with them.
[25:34] I've seen a patrol go by, tell someone
[25:38] to get out of the water, do some
[25:40] education, as soon as they leave,
[25:41] they're back in.
[25:42] >> yes.
[25:45] that's currently our struggle.
[25:46] >> yeah.
[25:47] >> every day.
[25:48] >> are there any hot spots or any
[25:51] places on the beach that have a decent
[25:54] amount more population than others
[25:56] that would maybe make good options for
[26:00] additional lifeguard beaches?
[26:01] >> yes.
[26:03] I've printed out a heat map off of our
[26:06] analytics software through watchtower,
[26:08] it's a great software, it's tailored
[26:11] made specifically for lifeguards and
[26:13] it uploads all your stats to the usla
[26:15] it's great and it prints you out a
[26:18] heat map on everything you do, but I
[26:21] printed that out, it was pretty much
[26:22] the whole shore line was red.
[26:27] we're everywhere, yeah.
[26:28] >> okay.
[26:29] and then one more before I toss it off.
[26:34] if I am correct in understanding our
[26:36] flag system is almost entirely based
[26:39] on rip currents, was that a correct
[26:41] understanding of the statement?
[26:42] >> yes.
[26:43] >> so, should we maybe change --
[26:44] because it talks about high surf or
[26:46] strong currents and if we're based
[26:49] centrally on rip currents, I
[26:50] understand this is standard signage
[26:52] that we're pulling but we don't have a
[26:55] green flag, and it's based on rip
[26:57] currents, maybe focusing the signage
[26:59] on rip currents rather than this
[27:02] generic language may make sense.
[27:03] >> right, so the definitions were
[27:06] based off of the international
[27:09] lifesaving federations definition,
[27:10] they set the definition, and the usla
[27:13] makes it available for lifeguard
[27:16] training for our lifeguards.
[27:17] they haven't adopted the green flag,
[27:22] so, the usla mirrors that statement,
[27:24] so we mirror the usla because we're
[27:27] accredited through them.
[27:30] as far as changing the verbiage, I
[27:36] really stress that the information
[27:40] that's present needs to be consistent
[27:42] across the board even how you fly the
[27:45] flags, e.g. Needs to be consistent.
[27:47] I've also noted -- I've spent a day
[27:50] watching people walk down the beach.
[27:53] I just face the access and I watch
[27:56] them walk and our sand is very unique
[27:58] in a way that it's just unique, it's
[28:01] not like any other sand anywhere else
[28:02] on a beach, so when people first come
[28:05] in contact with our beach, they're
[28:07] looking down at their feet because
[28:10] they're trying to keep their footing
[28:12] or they're amazed by our sand, but our
[28:15] signs are up like this but their eyes
[28:17] are looking down and our flags are
[28:19] really high.
[28:20] we need our flags high so you can see
[28:22] them because they're spaced out,
[28:25] right, but usually you'll see like the
[28:28] dad carrying all the stuff and he's
[28:30] got his eye on a spot on the shore
[28:32] line he's trying to get all these bags
[28:35] too and then everybody else is looking
[28:36] down at the sand so they tend to miss
[28:40] the signs, they tend to miss it and
[28:45] even you'll get to a point where it's
[28:47] sign pollution, you get too many signs
[28:50] and the most important sign, the rip
[28:53] current sign is sometimes really low to
[28:55] the sand and even dune grass is
[28:58] covering it, so the sign that you
[29:00] really need them to pay attention to
[29:03] is not prominent in the field of view.
[29:08] >> I have a couple more.
[29:09] >> yes, council member coburn and then
[29:19] councilman register.
[29:20] >> yes, based on your relationships
[29:23] with other people that are doing your
[29:25] job in other communities, are there
[29:27] any best practices we could adopt that
[29:30] would work for us that come to mind?
[29:50] >> [inaudible] to assess your shore
[29:51] line, assess your area and operate in
[29:54] the manner that's best for your area,
[29:56] so if you go to -- if you visit a
[29:58] beach, if you visit somewhere else in
[30:00] the country or even down south
[30:03] florida, conditions could be greatly
[30:04] different there, specific hazards
[30:06] could be greatly different there than
[30:09] what we face here so, there's probably
[30:11] a few things that you can pull from,
[30:13] like maybe some policies but we really
[30:15] need to stay specific and tailored for
[30:17] our area because we're still unique in
[30:19] a lot of ways here.
[30:21] >> thank you, I think we just need to
[30:22] think out of the box here a little bit
[30:25] and see if we can't come up with some
[30:27] strategies that we can employ that
[30:29] would help your folks do their job.
[30:30] >> sure.
[30:34] >> councilman register?
[30:35] >> in regards to changing the signage
[30:38] possibly, I know we still have
[30:40] undertow and wave height
[30:43] that doesn't have to do with a rip
[30:45] current, is that part of the signage,
[30:47] don't we have some undertow or we have
[30:57] wave heights that can knock people or
[30:59] no?
[31:01] >> so, undertow is just a name for --
[31:03] >> for a rip current.
[31:05] >> there's nothing out there that will
[31:09] grab you and [inaudible]
[31:31] >> sounds to me like the mayor has a
[31:33] great idea to uniform our signage to
[31:36] make it based around rip currents.
[31:38] >> I'm always for simple, concise
[31:41] uniform signage.
[31:42] >> one of the things I'm hearing you
[31:45] say is preventative actions, short of
[31:47] a fully funded lifeguard program,
[31:49] preventative actions would be the next
[31:51] best step to prevent drowning?
[32:01] do we need more preventative
[32:03] actions?
[32:04] >> sure.
[32:06] >> more education, more preventative
[32:09] action.
[32:10] >> yes, that's all great.
[32:11] >> smoke alarms, sprinkler systems and
[32:14] fire detector systems save more lives
[32:16] than firemen.
[32:19] security cameras lead to more
[32:21] successful prosecutions than attorneys
[32:22] and police officers.
[32:27] no flag sign, refrigerator magnet, tv
[32:30] commercial, stood on the shore line
[32:32] and made a public contact with
[32:35] somebody and said don't swim here,
[32:36] there's a rip current, and let me
[32:38] educate you and point it out to them,
[32:40] explain the science behind it.
[32:42] what our lifeguards, how our
[32:44] lifeguards speak and explain things to
[32:45] people is very important to me and
[32:48] we train on that, how are we going to
[32:50] explain what we're going to explain,
[32:52] how are we going to tell them where to
[32:54] go and where to move.
[32:55] >> that takes time, right, each
[32:57] interaction takes time.
[32:58] >> at a guarded beach when you have
[33:01] backup, when you have overwatch with a
[33:04] partner, lifeguards work best in a
[33:05] team, not really so much as single,
[33:07] like when ld have a roving patrol,
[33:10] we try to put a partner with
[33:12] that if the vehicle will accommodate a
[33:15] second person simply because we
[33:18] learned that lifeguards work best as a
[33:20] team.
[33:21] >> it does, yeah.
[33:24] >> last one.
[33:26] from your metrics, less rescues at our
[33:29] guarded beaches?
[33:30] >> yes, that is our standard, there
[33:33] shouldn't be rescues at a guarded
[33:35] beach.
[33:36] >> and you would attribute the fact
[33:37] that we have less need for rescues at
[33:40] guarded beaches due to the
[33:42] preventative actions that they're able
[33:44] to take there?
[33:45] >> yes.
[33:46] >> okay.
[33:47] >> you good?
[33:50] okay.
[33:51] director paul, thank you.
[33:52] >> thank you.
[33:53] >> okay.
[33:54] so, we are tight on time for this
[33:56] meeting, we have to start the next
[34:00] meeting at 5:00.
[34:01] we're going to have a discussion here
[34:03] I know there were some folks who had
[34:05] reached out ahead of time to do public
[34:08] comment, I'm going to allow a few
[34:10] public comments on this subject right
[34:12] now.
[34:13] the rest of the public comments can
[34:15] happen during public comment period in
[34:17] the next meeting, it will be pretty
[34:18] quick, we have a short presentation,
[34:21] but we just -- the way of running this
[34:24] meeting, we got to end this one on
[34:26] time so we start this next one for
[34:29] legal purposes.
[34:30] so, for the folks who want to have
[34:32] public comment, could you raise your
[34:34] hand.
[34:36] okay.
[34:37] I know mr. Hill, go ahead.
[34:39] and I'm going to prioritize people
[34:40] who have not recently spoken to the
[34:43] city council on beach safety issues.
[34:46] if we have someone new here who's
[34:48] providing new information, they're
[34:49] going to be prioritized.
[34:52] >> thank you, I will take just a
[34:54] minute.
[34:55] I'm here on behalf of the rotary club
[34:59] in bay county, both in panama city,
[35:02] panama city beach and lynne haven.
[35:06] thank you for listening to me, mayor,
[35:07] you are right, we need to think
[35:09] outside of the box.
[35:10] we don't need to just think, we need
[35:12] to have action and thoughts and
[35:15] prayers for victims of drowning are
[35:17] not enough, we have to do more.
[35:20] the rotary clubs in bay county stand
[35:22] ready to partner with you guys with the
[35:29] professionals that are involved with
[35:30] these rescues, something called public
[35:31] rescue tubes, I've got a handout, I
[35:33] would love to give you guys and show
[35:35] you, these tubes are already in place
[35:38] and over 700 locations around u.s. And
[35:41] canada.
[35:42] there have been 400 known rescues by
[35:45] private citizens.
[35:46] they're similar to what a lifeguard
[35:48] does use.
[35:50] there are 16 tubes installed in nevar,
[35:55] and there's no loss of life where
[35:56] those tubes have been installed.
[35:59] [inaudible] has four tubes, pensacola
[36:02] has five tubes.
[36:03] these buoys if you will are placed
[36:06] along the cross overs, the rotary club
[36:09] here in bay county is ready to fund
[36:11] this program.
[36:13] there are foundations, there are
[36:16] businesses that would stand behind
[36:17] this to keep when someone's
[36:20] destructive or whatever to replace
[36:22] those tubes.
[36:23] one of the things that people are
[36:27] mindful of and fearful of is liability
[36:31] and risk and I can tell you that I've
[36:33] talked to a number of attorneys and
[36:35] they say that risk is very minimal but
[36:38] the second approach that I think this
[36:40] body and our county can get behind is
[36:42] is to change the good samaritan laws
[36:45] in the state of florida with a very
[36:47] minor change.
[36:48] the state of hawaii has install these
[36:52] tubes and they did a good samaritan
[36:54] law change.
[36:55] the packet that I'm going to provide
[36:57] you today has the florida language and
[36:59] it has the hawaiian language and it's
[37:02] very simple.
[37:03] it's very simple.
[37:05] it protects the private citizens that
[37:09] are partnered with you guys to provide
[37:11] lifeguards and it protects the
[37:13] property owners and the person trying
[37:16] to go out to rescue someone, we're
[37:19] not advocating people to go into
[37:21] dangerous waters but the truth is if
[37:24] you invite someone down here and they
[37:25] go into the water and they get in
[37:28] trouble, most likely you're going to
[37:29] go in and try to rescue them and we've
[37:32] seen it time and time again when
[37:34] people go to rescue someone and they
[37:35] themselves end up drowning so these
[37:37] tubes can provide a backup, an
[37:40] assistance until help can get there
[37:42] and so I'm asking and imploring you to
[37:46] check this out.
[37:47] the rotary clubs here in bay county
[37:50] stand ready to partner with you to
[37:52] make this happen.
[37:53] >> thank you, mr. Hill.
[37:56] we only have time for one more, so who
[38:02] else was -- mr. -- is it mr. White?
[38:07] >> mayor?
[38:08] >> yes.
[38:09] >> may we get a copy of the handout
[38:11] now.
[38:12] >> I think that's reasonable.
[38:14] >> in the meantime, mr. Davis, in
[38:18] terms of liability, could you clarify
[38:21] what city liability would be for these
[38:23] tubes?
[38:24] >> for providing the tubes?
[38:25] >> yes.
[38:26] >> I mean I think the liability is
[38:28] very minimal.
[38:29] as mr. Hill said, liability on the
[38:33] rescuer, that's a different analysis,
[38:35] for the city's liability, I think it
[38:37] would be fairly minimal.
[38:38] >> okay, alright.
[38:39] >> my name's allen white, I'm from
[38:42] panama city, born and raised here.
[38:45] thank you for your time.
[38:46] we've been working on a program for a
[38:48] little over a decade for the very
[38:51] reason we're here today.
[38:54] I can't get into a lot of detail on
[38:56] it because we just don't have enough
[38:57] time.
[38:58] one thing I would like to say is that
[39:01] we've researched rip current drowning
[39:03] around the world from england all up
[39:06] and down the east, west coast.
[39:09] we understand how the rip current
[39:13] works and professor rick stone did a
[39:17] study on rip currents and what the
[39:20] beaches had to add to one of the rip
[39:25] currents are natural sand bars, if
[39:26] you're born and raised here, you can
[39:28] walk 100 feet off shore, you would be
[39:31] in ankle deep water or if you go 100
[39:34] yards off shore and you would be in
[39:36] knee deep water.
[39:38] since dredging and [inaudible] it's
[39:43] changed everything, the tide breaks
[39:44] are hitting the shore line.
[39:46] there's not a natural protection like
[39:48] there used to be, but we have a system
[39:50] we've been developing that uses led
[39:52] lights, she was mentioning thinking
[39:57] out of the box.
[39:58] if you want to see the flag system
[40:00] working better, put it out into the
[40:02] water where you can see it, you have
[40:04] 40 thousand people on the beach and
[40:09] everybody 's looking at the water.
[40:13] we have an indicator with an led
[40:18] light, an emergency camera system, if
[40:20] you get in trouble and don't have a
[40:21] cell phone, the minute you touch that
[40:24] button on that walkway and every
[40:27] access points have these lights, when
[40:28] you're walking down the walkway, the
[40:32] subliminal message will already be
[40:35] red, yellow green, whatever, so now
[40:37] you're walking towards the beach and
[40:39] you're getting that led light telling
[40:41] you what signal it is.
[40:43] and if you get in trouble, most people
[40:46] call, we have 911, I don't know
[40:48] where we're at, we don't know where
[40:51] we're at, we're in the middle of 40
[40:53] thousand people, we don't know where
[40:54] we're at.
[40:56] the minute they touch that light and
[40:58] open that light emergency box, it's
[40:59] like a fire alarm, they pick it up
[41:05] instantly, the signal goes to the
[41:06] gentlemen on the beach, on their
[41:08] ipads, their smart phones, the system
[41:11] changes the lighting system and this
[41:13] system has a verbal command.
[41:15] in other words, they can communicate
[41:16] with the people on the beach through
[41:19] this system on their ipad or their
[41:21] smart phone.
[41:22] they can change the system part of the
[41:25] beach, on the beach and the
[41:27] information coming from noaa from the
[41:32] shipping land buoys is instant, it's
[41:34] combining into their monitors, so
[41:36] there's several things.
[41:37] we can talk about this forever and we
[41:40] changed the law, [inaudible] wrote the
[41:43] amendment.
[41:44] >> we've changed the law and it's
[41:46] changed and now we can use the system
[41:48] in the state of florida.
[41:49] >> thank you, I appreciate you.
[41:52] okay.
[41:53] , we only have about 10, 15 minutes
[41:57] left of this meet, I'm going to cut
[42:00] public comment there.
[42:01] we're going to have to move
[42:03] public comment for this to the
[42:05] non-agenda comments for the next
[42:06] meeting which will be starting here in
[42:08] just about 20 minutes.
[42:09] I wanted to give the council time to
[42:11] discuss our options.
[42:15] for one, I am really interested in
[42:19] seeing what we can do to add lifeguard
[42:25] beaches.
[42:26] I think -- I've heard the great work
[42:29] the tdc's recently done in terms of
[42:31] finding an extra couple of hundred
[42:35] thousand.
[42:36] >> 360.
[42:37] >> an extra 360.
[42:38] >> that would go to us.
[42:39] >> that would go to panama city beach
[42:44] for this purpose.
[42:45] I think it would be worth looking into
[42:47] -- we only have one taker for our
[42:51] public/private partnership and that's
[42:52] because we asked them to fund 100%
[42:55] including capital.
[42:56] maybe we could consider looking at
[43:02] subsidizing that public/privateer
[43:06] partnership or taking some of the
[43:08] public beach accesses and providing a
[43:10] lifeguard beach there, it won't do the
[43:13] entire island.
[43:14] that would be a nice way to expand
[43:15] that money but I'll let the rest of
[43:18] the council go through comments and we
[43:21] can see if we can fit two rounds in.
[43:23] >> absolute will you.
[43:24] >> do you want to start?
[43:27] >> sure, I like both of your ideas.
[43:29] I think if we covered the capital cost
[43:33] for setting up a lifeguard at a
[43:37] resort, that would save them some
[43:39] money but then they would still be
[43:41] paying the salary for the personnel
[43:43] that would be stationed there and I do
[43:46] -- perhaps we look at the beach access
[43:50] and we pick some out and we make those
[43:53] lifeguard beaches but still have
[43:58] rovers.
[43:59] I wouldn't want to take away from
[44:00] having those rovers because I think
[44:01] those are very important.
[44:02] but I think those are two really good
[44:05] ideas.
[44:06] >> okay.
[44:07] thank you, council member.
[44:08] councilman register?
[44:09] >> I agree with
[44:10] you, I think those are both great
[44:11] ideas but what I'm hearing and this is
[44:14] manager that's kept me up at night
[44:16] when people are drowning.
[44:18] I worked on this beach since I was 14
[44:21] working on the sand behind calipso,
[44:31] no one drowned on that beach and the
[44:34] reason is because I cared enough to
[44:42] tell peel and take preventative
[44:44] action, so I've been meeting with
[44:48] beach service representatives,
[44:51] [inaudible], james vaught, james jones,
[44:53] some other endorsee up and down the
[44:54] beach, I think we have 75-100 vendors
[44:57] and I have met with dan roe at the tdc
[45:01] several times regarding maybe a beach
[45:04] ambassador program where we can
[45:05] utilize boots on the ground.
[45:06] they are not lifeguard certified, I
[45:09] don't expect them to be, but if
[45:33] [inaudible].
[45:53] ( site buffering ).
[46:20] >> this is right there all the
[46:21] time, I would like to see us take some
[46:23] time to implement a beach ambassador
[46:26] program where the tdc pays those
[46:28] individuals to help us market our
[46:30] beaches.
[46:31] it ups the level of service for
[46:33] residents, tourists, everybody that
[46:34] visits our beaches.
[46:35] it gives them an opportunity to feel
[46:43] safe and understand.
[46:44] some people, I hear people all the
[46:46] time, I walk the floors in my building
[46:48] all the time and look out, still
[46:50] double red flag so we do see it and
[46:53] that system does work but it's a lot
[46:55] more effective when you're
[46:56] communicating it and if I can get 100
[46:58] more people in the bay county telling
[47:02] people and helping you guys and I
[47:03] think you had a number on your slide,
[47:07] you had 172 thousand 51 preventative
[47:11] actions.
[47:12] that's a lot of actions and how many
[47:13] people do you have on your staff?
[47:18] nine?
[47:19] how many including you?
[47:20] nine people.
[47:21] if I can give you 100 more in the
[47:24] county, I can get a lot more
[47:27] preventative actions.
[47:28] they're not lifeguards, again, they're
[47:30] not lifeguards, I worked on the beach,
[47:33] we had to be lifeguard certified back
[47:35] in the day.
[47:36] I want to collect all these guys
[47:39] together, and they're willing to do it, it's
[47:42] something I'm passionate about and
[47:43] something I like to see done and we
[47:45] don't have to use the dollars for that.
[47:47] marketing dollars, it is, if that's
[47:49] something you guys are interested in,
[47:51] I rhinitis good idea and I would love
[47:53] to remove restrictions on double red
[47:54] flags where they can go across
[47:56] property lines sh we have atv's and
[48:00] jet skis we can use, let these guys
[48:03] cross property eyes if they can make a
[48:07] preventative action and save a life.
[48:08] >> thank you.
[48:09] >> thank you.
[48:14] >> I support that 110% and using new
[48:18] marketing money, it would be a lot
[48:20] more money than what we're getting and
[48:23] getting a lot more bodies and I love
[48:26] the rotary's idea of putting those
[48:29] rescue tubes down there.
[48:31] I also was a lifeguard, I started my
[48:34] career as a city lifeguard back in the
[48:41] 70's and that's a tough job you guys
[48:44] are doing, very tough.
[48:46] and the ones that we were able to save
[48:49] I remember were the ones that had what
[48:53] we call back then a three dollar
[48:57] inflatable float and by the time we
[49:01] got down there, it would take five to
[49:04] ten minutes to get there.
[49:06] if they didn't have some type of
[49:09] flotation device for them, that was a
[49:11] recovery effort at that time, it
[49:13] wasn't saving anybody, but I remember
[49:16] one particular day, I didn't count
[49:18] them when we got down there, I was in
[49:20] awe on how people were out there
[49:23] afterwards.
[49:24] it was over with, I think they said
[49:25] there was 17 people and one family
[49:29] were out there and had gotten trapped
[49:33] out there, two at a time, five at a
[49:35] time, it started with two kids and they
[49:38] all went in and there was a real bad
[49:42] rip behind the gulf crest, and so they
[49:45] had five or six of those different
[49:49] colored air mattresses and this was
[49:51] back in the late 70's, and so we took
[49:55] a rope to them, we had 300 feet of
[49:58] rope and we got two or three times we
[50:00] got out there to them and ended up
[50:04] getting them all in.
[50:05] two or three went to the hospital, you
[50:07] know, but they survived and we rescued
[50:12] them but what slavered those people
[50:13] was they had a flotation device and
[50:16] the people that had the state of mine
[50:20] to get another float before they went
[50:22] in the water because if you ever go in
[50:24] the water after somebody, don't go
[50:26] without some type of flotation device.
[50:29] what I want to propose and I talked to
[50:35] cole about it and it's out of the box
[50:37] like mary was saying, I propose that
[50:40] on a single red flag day, that we
[50:44] require the swimmers, the people going
[50:46] in the gulf to have some type of
[50:51] flotation device.
[50:52] I've been watching that, like darryl
[50:54] said, I watch them go down there, they
[50:57] have it with them, they have boogie
[51:02] boards, floats, noodles, any of those
[51:04] things will keep people alive long
[51:07] enough if they caught in one until
[51:10] somebody can get there and not do a
[51:13] recovery, it can be a happy ending if
[51:17] they have some type of flotation
[51:18] device and that's thinking way outside
[51:20] of the box because I know if kohl's
[51:23] been able to find any other city that
[51:24] does that.
[51:25] over the years, people have asked me,
[51:27] just make them wear life jackets,
[51:30] nobody will die.
[51:31] and I said, well, it's not that easy.
[51:33] people don't want to come to the beach
[51:35] and wear a life jacket but that's the
[51:37] truth.
[51:38] if they would, then nobody would drown.
[51:42] but anyhow, I do think that that's
[51:45] worth trying and it may not work but
[51:47] we got to do something.
[51:48] everybody says you have to do
[51:50] something, we're trying to get more
[51:53] lifeguards and tdc is stepping up with
[51:55] more money which is great and this
[51:58] ambassador program and the rotary, the
[52:00] public, we need to do something and I
[52:04] don't know if this is directed to
[52:06] counsel at this point to have some
[52:08] dialogue about it, I don't know if we
[52:09] could do that but that would be my
[52:15] suggestion, we're kind of at a point
[52:16] where we need toe do something.
[52:17] >> councilman, I was going to let
[52:18] everyone talk and then kind of get
[52:19] direction if that works.
[52:20] >> perfect.
[52:21] >> vice mayor, do you think you can do
[52:23] it in two minutes.
[52:24] >> I'll be really quick.
[52:26] I think we've come up with some good
[52:29] ideas.
[52:30] we definitely get with the tdc as well
[52:33] on the tubes, I've been looking at
[52:36] some ai software that can complement
[52:46] lifeguards.
[52:47] I like the ambassador program, it can
[52:49] free up some of the lifeguards to do
[52:54] more rescue and not have to be the
[52:57] preventative nature if we've got 100
[52:58] extra people out there doing it, so
[53:00] that's it.
[53:01] >> okay.
[53:02] I heard about five ideas, let me
[53:05] summarize them.
[53:07] one is investigating a subsidized
[53:10] program including maybe potentially
[53:13] subsidizing capital costs.
[53:14] I personally would also like to see
[53:18] subsidizing the actual lifeguards for
[53:21] creating lifeguards on peps, enhancing
[53:24] our public/private partnership.
[53:25] the beach ambassador program,
[53:27] investigating if there's any order --
[53:32] ordinances or anything that we need to
[53:33] do this.
[53:34] the funding would come from tdc there.
[53:37] if there's anything we need to do from
[53:39] a city ordinance side there.
[53:41] rescue tubes, I think it would be
[53:43] great to work with rotary and I think
[53:46] a few people here were interested in
[53:48] rescue tubes, what are the options in
[53:51] terms of mounting, can we have a
[53:53] partnerships there, that's the third
[53:56] one.
[53:57] councilman casto's idea on
[54:03] requiring flotation devices on single
[54:05] reds and the information we got, we had
[54:07] 14 cases of drowning on single reds,
[54:10] more than double reds at this point,
[54:11] so I think that makes sense to
[54:13] investigate that and then finally vice
[54:18] mayor jarman's ai software.
[54:20] >> I'm waiting for phone calls back.
[54:22] >> so, does it make sense to get
[54:24] options on those five?
[54:25] >> and could we also get more
[54:28] information from mr. White over here.
[54:30] >> mr. White, yes.
[54:32] >> so, those five plus, drew, if you
[54:37] could reach out to mr. White and have
[54:39] him talk to chief morgan, alright.
[54:41] did we make it?
[54:42] I think we made it, okay.
[54:45] the public comment for -- I know a lot
[54:47] of you wanted to do public comment on
[54:49] this beach safety, just do it at the
[54:51] next meeting which is going to start
[54:52] here in about five minutes, okay.
[54:53] that's it.
[54:57] this meeting is adjourned.
[55:00] ( meeting adjourned ).