[0:01] meeting to order and ask you to join me
please in the pledge of allegiance.
[0:09] » I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
[0:15] republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible with liberty and
[0:21] justice for all.
>> Shirley, would you take roll call,
[0:25] please?
>> Mayor Hannah
[0:26] » here. Mike Connell, Bob Porter.
here. Mazi
[0:31] » here.
>> Christel here.
[0:33] » Mr. Palmer
>> here.
[0:38] » I'm sorry. I I'm
>> Did you have him for the teacher?
[0:44] » That's why
it won't happen.
[0:58] Looking for approval of our agenda for
tonight.
[1:03] » I move that we adopt the agenda as
printed.
[1:07] » Second.
>> We have a motion from Mindy, seconded by
[1:11] Kamal. All those in favor of that
motion, please signify by saying I.
[1:15] » I.
>> Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes.
[1:21] And to approve our council meeting
minutes from August 20th,
[1:25] » I move that we suspend the rules with
the readings and approve the minutes
[1:28] from August 20th regular meeting.
>> I think we need a correction
[1:35] » to the council meeting minutes. Okay.
>> Is or not? I don't know. Wasn't it Kathy
[1:40] Edwards?
>> It was the film.
[1:43] » Yes, it sure was. Minor
>> um
[1:48] » I would change that. not Dennis Malloy
but
[1:51] » and Alex so I will make sure that I
change that.
[1:56] » Thank you for that, Mindy.
>> So Kamal, if you'd like to redo your
[2:02] motion indicating a correction.
>> I move that we correct the minutes,
[2:08] suspend the rules, and wave the
readings. Uh the correction is uh
[2:15] » Kathy McGrath as the uh who was present
with studio 123 wave the readings and
[2:23] approve the minutes from August 20th
regular meeting.
[2:27] » Second. We have a motion from Kamal
seconded by Kristen. All those in favor
[2:32] of that motion please signify by saying
I.
[2:34] » I.
>> Those opposed nay. Motion passes.
[2:39] I'm not aware of any pre-approved
reports or presentations for tonight. So
[2:44] we'll still
>> Why? It's Edwards. Kathy Edwards.
[2:50] » Oh,
sorry. No, you're fine.
[2:53] » I make another motion that we corrected
to Kathy Edwards instead of Kathy
[2:59] McGraw. And I move that we suspend the
rules, wave the readings, and approve
[3:05] the minutes from August 20 regular
meeting.
[3:08] » I second.
>> Oh, that's never going to change for me
[3:11] there. Sorry.
We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by
[3:16] Kristen. All those in favor of that
motion, please signify by saying I.
[3:21] » I.
>> Oppose. Nay. Motion passes.
[3:26] » Thank you. Thank you. And thank you.
I'm not aware of any pre-approved
[3:32] reports or presentations. So, we'll move
into public comment. And I believe Mark
[3:38] Absy is here to address council.
>> I am. Thank you very much. you have.
[3:49] » Good evening, Mayor Han and council
members.
[3:52] My name is Mark Absy. Uh my wife and I
married or my wife and I my wife Mary
[3:57] and I moved to town uh September of 20
or April 2023. So we've been here for a
[4:05] few years. Uh we came from St. Charles,
Michigan, which is about 40 mi up the
[4:11] road where we owned a bar in a bowling
alley for 26 years and um moved down
[4:18] this way because I I work in Mesa as a
credit manager.
[4:23] Is that me?
>> I know.
[4:25] » Got it open.
>> That's me.
[4:32] [laughter]
If if you could hold that thought for
[4:35] just a minute, we'll suspend till Kamal
turns the car off.
[4:43] » I'm sorry.
[4:50] » I just don't want Kamal to miss any of
your presentation.
[4:53] » Yeah, it's going to be riveting.
[5:05] Sorry.
>> It's okay.
[5:09] » Can I reclaim my time?
>> You may go ahead.
[5:12] » Yes, you may. Go ahead.
>> All right. So,
[5:16] uh just give you a little background,
but um now our next big endeavor, we
[5:21] thought we were going to retire, but
looking around, uh we have we're trying
[5:26] to gain financing to purchase the
Williams Furniture building and we're
[5:33] going to renovate it and put in a self-s
served laundromat.
[5:38] Okay. So, the reason I'm here tonight uh
is to talk about the residential
[5:43] equivalently
equivalent units or REUS assigned to
[5:48] self-s served laundry. And I know way
more about RUS than I need to know and
[5:53] John even can testify cuz I'm
questioning him too. Um, tonight I'm
[5:59] respectfully requesting that the city
review the RU factor assigned to
[6:03] self-service laundry within city utility
ordinance. This piece of paper that you
[6:09] guys that I gave you is the
residential equivalency unit for a bunch
[6:15] of
any kind of commercial enterprise that
[6:19] can possibly be around. And this is what
is being used to determine the benefit
[6:24] reus for any commercial property.
To my knowledge, anything that I could
[6:31] find indicates that this was in the
ordinance since 1987.
[6:36] Okay. So, it's been around a while. So,
under the current ordinance, self-s
[6:41] served are assigned a 050 RU per washer.
My concern is not whether the connection
[6:48] fee should exist. My concern is whether
the assumption used to establish this
[6:53] factor still reflects the realities of
modern commercial laundry equipment.
[6:59] Commercial washing technology has
changed dramatically over the past three
[7:03] days
or three days, three decades. Uh the
[7:07] second thing that I have is the data
backing that up. So while I'm talking
[7:11] you at least at some point there
industry data shows that modern
[7:15] commercial frontload washer extractors
use approximately 40 to 65% less water
[7:21] than comparable machines used when many
of the reu schedules were really
[7:25] originally developed. Few of us here are
old enough to remember the old washing
[7:29] machines with the agitators that had to
fill all the way up with water. That
[7:32] doesn't happen anymore historically.
Commercial laundry equipment often
[7:37] consume 3 and 12 to 5 gallons of water
per pound of laundry processed.
[7:43] Modern high efficiencies high efficiency
equipment typically consumes 1 and 12 to
[7:48] 2 and 12 gallons. The laundromat that
I'm proposing will include four 30 lb
[7:54] washers, three 40lb washers, and three
60lb washers. really representing the
[8:00] larger families in Perry and less on the
end of renters and things that we have.
[8:06] All these machines are modern high
efficiency units designed to reduce
[8:10] water consumption through advanced
controls, optimize wash cycles and load
[8:14] sensing technology. My question is
simple.
[8:18] If the original REU factor was
established using water demand
[8:22] assumptions from equipment that existed
more than 30 years ago, should the same
[8:27] assumptions continue to be applied to
equipment that uses substantially less
[8:31] water? I want to be clear. I'm not
asking for special treatment. I'm not
[8:37] asking for the fees to be waved and I'm
not asking for council to make a
[8:41] decision tonight. I'm asking that the
city review the self-s served laundry
[8:46] factor using current commercial washer
consumption data. If that review
[8:52] concerns the existing factor remains
appropriate, I'll respect that
[8:56] determination.
However, if the review shows the modern
[9:00] equipment generates significantly lower
water demand than the equipment used
[9:04] when the standard was created, then I
believe the reu schedule should be
[9:10] updated to reflect today's technology.
Governments, utilities, and businesses
[9:16] routinely update standards as technology
changes. This may be one of those
[9:22] situations.
I respectfully request that council
[9:25] direct staff to review the self-service
laundry reu factor and report back with
[9:30] their findings. Thank you for your time,
consideration, and service to the city
[9:35] bar. My final closing statement, I'm not
asking the city to lower a fee. I'm
[9:41] asking the city to make sure the fee is
based on current data rather than decade
[9:46] old assumptions.
Can you share with us the resources that
[9:52] you use in developing this these
numbers?
[9:55] » Come on. We don't typically u address
during public comment.
[10:00] » Okay.
>> Okay. Um
[10:02] » thank you John.
>> I have none.
[10:04] » I had
[10:07] typ typically during public comment we
don't engage in conversation.
[10:12] » Okay. But what should be done is that
the council determines if they would
[10:17] like to place this on the agenda for
discussion,
[10:21] » okay,
>> at a future meeting. And um
[10:26] at that meeting
we would discuss
[10:31] whether council would recommend having
our engineer of record review this and
[10:38] see if there is grounds to
>> because they they are the experts. they
[10:43] will know [snorts] what the uh you know
recommendations would be and then it
[10:49] would come back from them and then come
back to council and then determination
[10:53] would be made.
>> Absolutely. Perfect. Thank you.
[10:57] » Um I'm looking for council to make a
recommendation to place this on the
[11:03] agenda for our next meeting. Would
anybody like
[11:07] » placed on the agenda for the next
meeting?
[11:09] » Second.
>> We have a motion from Mindy. Second from
[11:13] Kimal to place this on the agenda at our
next meeting. All those in favor of that
[11:18] motion, please signify by saying I.
>> I.
[11:21] » Motion passes.
Thank. So this will be on our next
[11:26] meeting agenda. We'll discuss it. Most
likely it'll be referred to our
[11:32] engineers of record or OM. They'll
review it all and make a recommendation.
[11:38] » Very good. Thank you.
>> You're welcome.
[11:57] Any other public comments?
Shirley, do you have communications for
[12:03] us?
>> I do, but this is something that will go
[12:06] on the agenda for the next meeting also,
so you guys can accept it. Um, dear
[12:12] Clerk Smith and Mayor Hammond, please
accept this email as my resignation from
[12:17] the City of Perry Planning Commission,
it has been a pleasure to serve our
[12:21] community, and I am grateful for the
chance to meet so many wonderful people
[12:25] along the way. I hope that when my
circumstances change, there will be
[12:29] another opportunity to ser our city in
some capacity. I look forward to that
[12:35] day. Thank you for your dedicated
service and continued commitment to all
[12:40] those I'm sorry to those you serve so
faithfully um sincerely Genevie Catrell.
[12:48] » So thank you. [clears throat]
>> So could you put on the agenda of the uh
[12:54] council to respond to that for our next
meeting?
[13:03] Um, just a few other things. I did pass
out something that Mark did email um
[13:09] earlier this week. So, you guys have
>> that I think it's the letter that you
[13:14] just
>> Yeah, it was it was a recommendation
[13:16] that I had, but I just didn't want I
didn't have enough time to get involved
[13:19] in. So, if you if they have it, then you
could take a look at it. It just ties
[13:23] into what I just said.
>> Yeah. So, the other thing that I handed
[13:26] out to you, um, Kamal asked for like
water sewer comparison rates from other
[13:31] municipalities.
>> Um, so there's a few there and then I
[13:36] also added in what our current rates are
right now for the discussion later
[13:40] tonight. So,
that's it.
[13:45] » That's it. Thank you very much. Thank
you for doing those comparisons.
[13:51] Um, looking at mayor reports and
department head reports. Um, John Sa,
[13:59] superintendent of the DPW.
[14:04] » Good evening. Um, so we wrapped up uh
our fall fire hydrant flushing this or
[14:11] around around lunchtime uh today.
Um the biggest thing going on is
[14:18] consumers gas distribution has come into
town and it's predominantly in the older
[14:24] sections of town and they're replacing
[clears throat] service lines. This is
[14:28] not the city doing this. There was no uh
premeating or anything like that. It was
[14:34] just they're they're coming and doing
it. So, um, so far we've done between 75
[14:41] and 80 m digs in the last two weeks, and
I believe there's another
[14:49] 60 or so more. They said 130 to 140
sites. Um,
[14:56] so what I'm asking, uh, or just
hopefully we've had to go out and
[15:01] restake stuff and it's not a lot, but
people have ripped flags out, thrown
[15:07] them in the streets, different things
like that. I realize that there's uh,
[15:12] it's an inconvenience. There's paint
marks everywhere. Uh, the polygons that
[15:17] they're requesting are quite massive uh,
at times. Uh we don't always know
[15:23] exactly where the gas mans are. We know
where most of them are, but um so all
[15:28] I'm asking is the residents just be
patient um while this project goes
[15:34] through
>> and don't pull the stakes up, right?
[15:37] » Yeah. Give it at least a week. If you
notice, there's there's some that you'll
[15:40] see digging on one side of the road and
they may not have to fix the gas line.
[15:44] Most people, I believe, got letters. Um
I I'm not privy to what everybody gets
[15:51] in the mail. So um you know it's just
there's we've already had to go back and
[15:57] remark uh I think about a dozen of them
today. So because they their time has
[16:04] expired. Anyway, uh city hall parking
lot has been seal coated and striped. I
[16:11] think it looks good. Um
just an update the park the parking lot
[16:17] between East third and east 2nd um
behind Charlie's uh and
[16:24] uh the
eye doctor and the dentist office. We're
[16:30] kind of looking at around the 14th
through the 20th uh give or take
[16:35] depending on weather. If we have wild
days like today, it'll push it around a
[16:39] little. Um, so, uh, we're planning on
handing out tags, uh, and letting
[16:46] everybody know kind of a ball frame
ballpark
[16:51] ballpark uh, area that when it would
will happen. So, it's going to be an
[16:57] inconvenience for a long-term
how I don't even know when it was paid
[17:03] last. I don't have any record of that.
So, um,
[17:09] the other thing is, um,
I would kind of like to see people not
[17:15] blow grass into the streets. I can't
really do anything about it, but it
[17:19] plugs up the catch basins. People
complain that the catch basins, we got
[17:23] to go around and dig them out. It's just
I I've seen a lot in the last couple
[17:29] weeks. It was dry for a month and a
half, not a lot of mowing. Um, now I'm
[17:36] I'm having to hand out uh weed notices.
So if your lawn's over 6 in tall so that
[17:42] the DPW doesn't want to have to do it.
So just appreciate following the
[17:49] ordinance and if you own a lawn, go
ahead and get it clipped.
[17:54] That's about all I have. Anybody has
anything for me?
[17:57] » Any questions for John? Anyone?
>> Thank you for all your hard work and
[18:02] your crew.
Megan, do you have stuff for us?
[18:07] Very tiny.
[18:11] Hello.
>> I don't have a lot to report tonight.
[18:14] Um, two non-treasure related things. Um,
I have a couple businesses in town that
[18:19] are working on organizing a Halloween uh
main treats on Main Street is what we
[18:23] usually call that event. It is going to
be in coordination with the fire
[18:26] department's fall safety event. It'll be
October 25th from 2:00 to 5:00 pm. Um,
[18:32] so Kim from the Orite Hair Salon and
Karen from Kodets are working together
[18:37] to get the word out to businesses. Um,
so you'll be hearing more about that
[18:41] soon as we have more details.
Um, I met with a contact from Consumers
[18:46] Credit Union this last week. We have
four money market accounts with them.
[18:50] Um, two of them are up for renewal. Um,
and the new rate we're getting on those
[18:54] right now is going to be 3.8% 8% which
is slightly higher than what it was at.
[18:58] We have two others with them that renew
in December I believe. Those are at
[19:02] 3.4%. He's going to try and roll them
all into renewing now and get them all
[19:06] up to the 3.8%.
That is about all I have this week.
[19:13] Any questions for Megan? Anyone?
>> Thank you. Good job with all your stuff.
[19:19] Thank you. Surely the only thing I that
I'm going to report is the open
[19:24] vacancies on council um right in
declaration of intent is um due October
[19:31] 23rd if anyone is still interested in
running for a council seat or even the
[19:36] mayor seat. Um and that would be due in
my office. And uh that's really it.
[19:44] That's all I have tonight. I'm sorry
that was not
[19:47] » There's more information about that on
our website, right?
[19:50] » Yes, on our website. Did you put that on
there again? I think she did. Yeah.
[19:53] » Yeah. It's been there for a long months.
>> Yeah.
[19:58] » Anything else?
>> No, that's it.
[20:00] » Sorry.
>> That's okay. Uh Chief Box said he didn't
[20:04] have anything to report tonight, so he
is not here. Um and my will follow with
[20:11] what Shirley had to say. We now have or
will have two open seats on the planning
[20:18] commission. Um those can be filled by
any resident of the city of Perry who is
[20:24] interested and qualifies to serve. They
can contact city hall for more
[20:29] information or go to the city website.
There is more information there as well
[20:34] that Megan posted. And um I think that
would answer any questions you might
[20:39] have. The planning commission meets the
first Monday of every month. Um they
[20:47] might meet more often if there's
something that needs to be addressed. Uh
[20:51] but typically it's that once a month
meeting.
[20:56] And we also have now on our council
committees an open seat on our ordinance
[21:06] committee uh with Larry Lambert leaving
and resigning. Mindy has agreed to serve
[21:12] as the ordinance committee chair. She
was already on the committee. Mike
[21:16] Connell is the other council member who
serves there. Typically, [clears throat]
[21:21] we'd like three council members on each
committee and um the ordinance committee
[21:28] meets when needed. They don't have a
regular meeting date like the planning
[21:33] commission does. Um but I will need a
council member to serve. So, if you're
[21:40] willing to do that, please let me know
or let Shirley know. I'd appreciate
[21:46] that.
Do we have any committee reports
[21:50] tonight? This would be one of those
committees, but we don't have any
[21:56] committee reports. So, we'll move on to
presentation and approval of the bills.
[22:02] » I move that we approve the bills as
presented and may be authorized.
[22:08] » Second. We have a motion from Kamal,
seconded by Kristen. All those in favor
[22:13] of that motion, please signify by saying
I.
[22:16] » I. Those opposed? Nay.
Motion passes.
[22:24] Moving into old business. I see nothing
there.
[22:29] So, on to our new business.
And our first um item is to approve
[22:37] excusing our council member Mike Connell
from meetings
[22:42] during football season. So looking for
any discussion. Anyone has sort of
[22:48] questions about that
or a motion.
[22:53] » I move that we approve the absence of
Mike Connell and excuse him from city
[22:57] council meetings effective September
3rd, 2026 through November 1st, 2026 due
[23:03] to prior obligations.
>> Second.
[23:06] » We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by
Mindy.
[23:10] All those in favor of that motion,
please signify by saying I.
[23:13] » I. Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes.
Now we'll move into our discussion
[23:23] regarding the possible water sewer rate
increases.
[23:29] Anyone would like to open that
discussion, feel free. Well, I want to
[23:34] start by thanking Megan and uh Shirley
for all their their help in assisting
[23:42] getting a lot of numbers and emails.
>> And I was thinking,
[23:49] do you guys want to table the
conversation until Bob is here, maybe
[23:54] next week, um to discuss it more and
have more
[24:00] input? or do we want to have that
discussion today?
[24:04] » We won't be setting a rate tonight.
>> That's not the purpose of tonight.
[24:09] » The purpose of tonight is to set a
public hearing.
[24:15] » Well, I think that timeline was to
decide the the amount of the increase
[24:22] tonight.
>> That was the
[24:24] » um council determines the rate increases
on September 3rd
[24:29] » and set the public We're going to set
the
[24:31] » Yeah, I think you need to know what the
rate is that you're asking for to set
[24:36] » to set public.
>> Well, then let's discuss Kamal's
[24:40] recommendation.
Council open for discussion regarding
[24:44] that.
>> I feel really bad that Bob's not here
[24:48] because I'm sure he has some good in.
[24:53] » Aren't we also on a deadline for um
having everything in place?
[25:01] in order for it to be effective.
Didn't we say we wanted it by
[25:08] » we want January?
>> I think we Yeah, I think we want to have
[25:11] it approved by January.
>> Yeah. So
[25:13] » So would that upset? Well, I mean, you
could always
[25:18] you could not you could discuss it at
the next meeting, but we still but you
[25:23] would have to make a decision at the
next meeting and we would set the public
[25:27] hearing for October 1st, the first
meeting in October,
[25:31] but you would have to make sure you like
the increase amount is up
[25:40] decided
next meeting. Either that or we just
[25:44] won't meet the deadline,
>> right? I don't think we would probably
[25:49] meet the deadline if we keep
>> Let me just ask Megan because I think
[25:54] it's important for Megan to be at the
meeting when this is discussed because
[25:59] as our treasurer, she'll be able to
answer questions that I'm sure you'll
[26:03] have. Megan, are you able to attend the
next council meeting?
[26:12] the 17th, right?
[clears throat]
[26:16] » Yeah, I think so.
>> John John, you won't be in town, right?
[26:21] Correct.
>> Okay.
[26:22] » John certainly is involved in the the uh
rate increase discussions and also would
[26:28] be able to perhaps answer questions that
you might have.
[26:32] » But he's going to be gone.
>> I won't be able to post that. have
[26:36] enough time to post it in the paper to
publish it
[26:39] » to post
>> 15 days.
[26:41] » Post what?
>> A public hearing in the paper. There's
[26:45] not enough days.
>> But you're saying you set the date on
[26:48] the 17th for the 1st. There's not enough
days between them.
[26:51] » No.
>> So the public hearing would have to be
[26:52] at the second meeting in October instead
of the first meeting in October.
[26:55] » Yeah,
>> I see what you're saying.
[26:57] » And like with the way the Arcus Press
>> does their paper now, they only publish
[27:02] three days a week. So, I would have to
like post it tomorrow. Come in and post
[27:07] it tomorrow if we set the public hearing
for the first
[27:11] or whatever we do. But we can't set a
public hearing because you don't we're
[27:14] not setting a rate,
>> right?
[27:17] » If you don't set the rate tonight, we
can't set the public hearing
[27:23] um tonight.
If we have to wait until the next
[27:27] meeting, then if I understand what
you're saying is
[27:30] » you wouldn't have enough time to post to
have the public hearing then on the 1st
[27:35] of October. It would have to go to the
second meeting of October.
[27:42] Then where does that put us as far as
having the
[27:47] public hearing the second meeting of
October
[27:51] and voting on it that night and
establishing what the rate increase is
[27:56] going to be? When does that does it take
30 days to
[28:01] » to publish it?
>> Yeah.
[28:03] » No, it doesn't take 30 days, but I don't
know the exact there's just not enough
[28:07] days like after se So September 18th to
October 1st or
[28:13] » No, no, I know that part. I'm saying
from the time the second meeting October
[28:18] then would become probably when the
public hearing would be.
[28:23] » Okay. If the council
after the public hearing actually sets
[28:30] what the rate increase is going to be,
when does that
[28:35] » I don't
>> how long does it take for that to go in
[28:37] effect? Is it 30 days to go into effect?
>> The rate increase.
[28:41] » Okay, I understand. Um it's whatever the
resolution says,
[28:46] » right? Okay. So, it could be
>> I was just asking you what that said,
[28:49] » but it's not going to be effective until
July 1st.
[28:53] » Correct.
>> Yes. So, it could be there. I don't know
[28:57] what the old resolution said. I would
kind of probably copy that same one,
[29:02] have Justin approve it, and um
>> Okay. So, in there, it does have to go
[29:08] to the city attorney for review and
approval.
[29:11] » Yes.
>> And uh
[29:13] » to make sure everything looks good. Mhm.
>> So there in lies the complication.
[29:19] » What would you like to do? Do you want
to try to set the rate tonight? You want
[29:23] to discuss it and do that or shall we
table it until next meeting hoping that
[29:30] Bob's here
>> myself? I'm ready to discuss it.
[29:33] » Sure.
>> Um,
[29:38] » come on. Was your your
>> I was just I was just trying to
[29:45] Sometimes he does have good points and I
I was curious to know like
[29:51] » where his thoughts are. Um but I am
ready to discuss it.
[29:56] » All right,
>> we are all set.
[29:58] » Let's discuss it.
>> Sure.
[30:00] » Who wants to go first? [clears throat]
[30:06] » My opinion
>> is that we need
[30:13] to get it taken care of. And I feel like
if we don't
[30:20] raise the rate enough,
we're not going to meet our goal.
[30:25] And what do we do in the meantime? We
don't have
[30:30] enough water and sewer capacity
to enable um more people to come in at
[30:39] this time. And it would could be a long
time
[30:43] » waiting for us to have the money to make
that happen. And and then we lose
[30:50] income.
>> And that's a good point. Yeah.
[30:54] » Yeah. And um
I and I compare it with
[31:02] we went years and years not raising the
rate
[31:06] » and look at what it got us. We have
equipment that's in poor condition. We
[31:12] have poor morale on the department
because of
[31:19] things not being where they should be
>> financially
[31:23] » financially.
And you know, I I feel like we we should
[31:29] have started raising those rates long
before if we'd have known
[31:34] » Yeah.
>> where it was going to end up. Not that,
[31:37] you know, I'm blaming anybody, but um
and it was nice having those low weights
[31:43] for a long time, but it didn't get us
anywhere.
[31:49] And um
I guess I just feel like
[32:00] we we need to we would need to I feel
like at least 12%
[32:06] I'd rather see the 15. We paid which um
is that how you can't wait
[32:14] to give their opinion and do the study
and I think John I'm not I can't speak
[32:20] for you but I think you were in
agreement with them on how much it's
[32:26] going to take to get us to that goal at
an appropriate time.
[32:31] » Well, it's timelines.
So it just keeps moving.
[32:37] » Yep.
>> The goal further and further.
[32:41] » Yep.
>> So,
[32:43] » and in the meantime, we're not going to
have capacity for growth.
[32:48] » So,
yeah.
[32:50] » I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I
thought you were done.
[32:53] » Go ahead.
>> Go ahead.
[32:54] » I I just John, is it true, too? And I
just want to make sure we all understand
[33:01] the the increase in the rate is not just
to address capacity.
[33:06] » No, it's to
>> sorry bring
[33:12] you it's like you know the easiest
example would be is why you get a
[33:18] different car after it's 20 years old.
It becomes less reliable to drive to
[33:24] California from Michigan. So while there
are newer parts of the system, you know,
[33:31] those parts are 20 years old now.
If if we look at Perry Lakes, um you
[33:39] know, the the M52 project, those mains
were put in in 2002.
[33:46] So that's 24 years there. A lot of the
other 4 in are, you know, from the 60s
[33:54] and 70s. Um, so they're cast iron. It
just keeps
[34:01] while we do the best we can, eventually
you have to upgrade the system. And
[34:08] um, you know, if we, you know, I we
don't have tons of complaints, but I
[34:14] just there was an example tonight cuz I
have a flushed hydrant. So, we're not
[34:19] production water does not put iron back
in the system because of the iron
[34:23] removal plant. But the old manes
leech out iron in them and you have
[34:29] discoloration and I can't stop that. We
are looking, we're still uh in the
[34:34] process of uh implementing the phosphate
to sequester that for the copper to coat
[34:42] the pipes. So, um but that's that's not
a long-term fix. It's a band-aid. It's
[34:47] what we were doing prior to the iron
removal plant.
[34:52] So
when you have some stuff that's 50 60
[34:58] years old
eventually you have to do something and
[35:03] you know this is unfortunately
where we're at
[35:07] » and in order to improve that water
>> well you know
[35:11] » that
>> I mean that's that's
[35:14] » the the water tower project and increase
in main size you know to to do that um
[35:23] you know capacities we're we're like
limited out pretty much right now. We
[35:27] have just barely what we have to work
with in town with uh we can add a few
[35:33] connections at like vacant lots in town
for us uh but nothing nothing of a big
[35:39] consumer.
So,
[35:45] so just I just want to make sure I'm
following. I have one question. The 15%
[35:52] that we are proposing to the that OM
came up with
[35:57] » will allow us to have reserves in the
next in 5 years from now if something
[36:03] was to happen. Is that correct?
>> Is that my understanding? as as far as a
[36:08] dollar amount.
>> Dollar amount.
[36:12] » So, it's not going to whatever the
increase the excess is going to come
[36:17] over each year. Uh I don't remember what
it is. Is it roughly 50,000 or so?
[36:26] » Right.
>> Yes.
[36:30] » You know, at the end of even if it was a
hundred, at the end of five years,
[36:34] that's half a million dollars.
>> Mhm.
[36:38] You know,
right now we have uh a grant in a
[36:43] congressional grant for Keaney Street to
increase that from uh four to an eight
[36:50] » I believe
from M52 or Main Street to uh Watkins
[36:57] and that is almost 800,000
>> two blocks.
[37:03] I mean I once you start digging I can't
that the price is just what it is you
[37:09] know to connect all those services
>> um you know I I understand you know
[37:15] but
>> no
[37:18] » eventually
I I guess so half a million dollars so
[37:23] » so that would be one one block to
replace and
[37:26] » well no I'm not talking about the cost
of to replace what when
[37:30] » okay
>> in the end of 5 years. This will give us
[37:34] half a million dollar extra in case
something breaks. Is that true? Am I
[37:39] understanding?
>> That would be a true statement. Yes,
[37:41] » that would be a true.
>> But there's a lot of ifs that would go
[37:45] into that. Well,
>> if we don't have something else that
[37:48] breaks and needs to be fixed and if
something else
[37:52] » but that's part of the perip
[clears throat]
[37:55] the but well yes we're not I'm not going
to hold you to it but but in theory
[38:01] that's what we're talking about right
>> yes
[38:05] » now
I think 15% is too much
[38:11] » and I think
instead of having the half a million
[38:17] » in
5 years, we can go 10.
[38:23] So it' be 6 and 12% increase versus 15
because any extra money that we are
[38:30] saving technically we're not saving um
any extra money that we're
[38:38] keeping for the water for later. Sure.
But the need is not there necessarily
[38:45] right this minute. So we're still going
to be waiting to maybe make improvement
[38:51] on this or improvement on that. But that
doesn't have to happen in times where
[38:56] gas is about $4 and a half a gallon and
consumers is increasing and every I I
[39:02] feel 15% is a stretch.
I do believe it needs it. I'm not
[39:08] against the increase, but I think 15% is
way too much based on my perception
[39:17] to uh to the situation and to how people
are living.
[39:23] » Camal, I hear what you're saying. It I
mean, we all live here. We all have to
[39:28] have to pay this. Um
but OM
[39:34] are engineers who do this for a living.
They have special education
[39:42] backgrounds and work backgrounds that
have put a lot of time, like almost two
[39:49] years into this study to determine
how much we need to increase our rates
[39:57] in order to
have our income exceed our outgo.
[40:05] » Absolutely. And that is what they
suggested.
[40:09] » That's the key. Suggested. And we really
don't know if something will break or
[40:14] not. And those are the two things that's
making me come, well, do we really need
[40:20] to increase it right this minute?
>> Well, it will break. I mean, that's
[40:23] matter.
>> Yeah. I'm I only mentioned something
[40:26] might break because you were trying to
pin him down to say yes, we'll have that
[40:30] much money in there. Well, we will if
nothing additional happens is what I
[40:37] meant.
>> This money is for maintenance and repair
[40:42] and improvement where needed. That that
is what will need to be done. I mean,
[40:49] they did the study, they presented the
information saying based on our
[40:53] experience with this type of material,
in some cases, you're past the life of
[40:59] this. You're just
lucky that it hasn't gone bad before now
[41:05] and this is only going to last a few
more years and this will only last five
[41:11] more years. you know, so I mean they put
it all
[41:16] I thought very clearly in their report.
I I think we should go
[41:24] at least to 12 like Mindy said 15 would
put us in a better position, but I think
[41:32] if we go any less than that, we're just
shooting ourselves in the foot.
[41:36] » Yeah. We don't want to end up in the
same situation A was in.
[41:39] » Oh, absolutely. and and it's going to be
a hit no matter what. So, it's going to
[41:43] be a hit now or a hit then when you know
we're in trouble because we don't have
[41:47] enough money.
>> Um, you know, I'm not a fan of the 15
[41:52] either. I mean, money is tight for all
of us.
[41:55] » Um, is there any way we could, you know,
do 12 now and revisit later, you know,
[42:02] at some point?
>> John, do you want to address that? It's
[42:07] up to you guys how you want to proceed
with it.
[42:11] It
if you go for a couple years, I mean, I
[42:16] I understand. I don't I don't like
standing here having to do this because
[42:22] it's spending other people's money on
stuff, but in order to run the system
[42:27] over time,
when you put it in the ground, the clock
[42:32] starts ticking
on it. So,
[42:37] you know,
there if I had a crystal ball and could
[42:41] tell everybody, hey, this is, you know,
and I I'm not being uh making light of
[42:47] anything. I mean, I don't like big
increases. I I honestly don't. I mean,
[42:54] historically,
uh there have been times where they were
[42:59] proud not to do increases in this town.
And is that somewhat a detriment today?
[43:07] You know, um the amounts that we're that
I I did a and it and it probably wasn't
[43:14] the best rate study. Um but the 2 and a
half% that we've been doing for a while
[43:20] on water and sewer um at the time was
keeping up kind of with inflation. And
[43:28] as we seen the last 5 years, things have
changed. Um [clears throat]
[43:32] so
you know unfortunately it looks like
[43:37] we're falling behind. How much further?
I I don't know. Um it there was a time
[43:42] when that same project that I was
talking about on Keiny if we'd had done
[43:46] it 10 15 years ago would have been two
or 300,000.
[43:54] I don't I don't see prices dropping
significantly.
[44:00] That's just an example. I mean, you
know, uh to put to put another well in
[44:05] to expand the water treatment plant, um
to move into the new well field, um you
[44:12] know,
it's just the system is becoming aged.
[44:16] Not every single component, but a lot of
the components in the water and the
[44:21] wastewater. Um you know, so that's
that's where I'm coming from.
[44:29] Uh
I guess I don't know what else to say.
[44:33] Uh how what type of percent
you know
[44:41] » I don't I don't think there is enough
difference between 12 and 15% to not go
[44:46] out
>> enough difference to the consumer. Is
[44:49] that what you mean? Yeah. Um Shirley did
come up with water sewer comparisons
[44:55] that compared the city of Perry's um
charges that we charge now to um other
[45:03] municipalities
um true the city of AASO who's one of
[45:09] those comparisons is a lot bigger than
us and when you have that many more
[45:14] people sharing the cost of running the
system it's going to be less less
[45:21] per person than
the number of people we have sharing the
[45:26] cost of the system in the size of our
city. Um, but we're not really very much
[45:32] different if you look at those
comparisons. The city of Williamston
[45:39] just very close again um and would still
be
[45:45] more than what we would charge um
>> even if we did a 15% increase
[45:50] » even if we did a 15% increase. Correct.
>> And those if if you look at those,
[45:56] you'll also see that they include water
in, sewer out, where our charges,
[46:03] there's not a separate charge for sewer
out. There's just the separate charge
[46:08] for water in. Um, village of OID,
again, it's just a a little more. City
[46:16] of Duran is also more. at than where we
would be if we raised our rates to 15%.
[46:24] I mean, we're way under where they are
now or where we are now.
[46:30] » Um
I and I don't want to always just look
[46:35] at what everybody else is doing to
decide what we should do. I'm just
[46:39] saying that other cities, other
municipalities
[46:44] are still charging more than we would be
at a 15% increase
[46:49] » and we don't want to find ourselves in
trouble and be in a position we have to
[46:53] keep coming back and asking for money.
>> Yes, that's not good.
[46:56] » And to answer your whoseever was it your
question, Kamal, can we change it in the
[47:01] future? Absolutely. I mean, we can
establish it for say a fiveyear period
[47:07] of time or a threeyear period of time
and then see where we're at and then
[47:12] extend it or change it. I you know, none
of this is written in stone. It it can
[47:19] be changed.
>> I just don't want us to find ourselves
[47:25] in a few short years with equipment
that's beyond
[47:32] and and and and I agree with you but I
don't want to take that decision based
[47:36] on fear of the future. right now as of
today things are working
[47:43] decently okay there's not much so so
just just the timing of that increase I
[47:51] feel it's such a huge burden on the
people that voted me in I don't know if
[47:56] I will go to 10% 6 and a half is is is
what I found to make the most sense to
[48:05] to me
from what I've been seeking. So,
[48:09] » and and you got your engineering degree
plan.
[48:12] » I got it. I got it from the
recommendations because a recommendation
[48:16] is a recommendation. Just because
someone tells you go change this, this
[48:20] this in your car doesn't really mean
that you're going to go and change it
[48:24] because it is working. Um
like tires, they I think it comes with a
[48:32] 40,000 miles or 60,000 miles and they're
recommended to change. You don't change
[48:37] it in 60,000. A lot of times people will
go 150 on the same because they don't.
[48:43] It differs. I I just It's not about me
being an engineer or not.
[48:48] » But it's about me comprehending what
people are struggling with and about me
[48:53] understanding where we're at and where
where I'd like to be. [clears throat]
[48:58] It's just a comfort. I I feel 15 10 is
just a little
[49:06] it doesn't help everyone. I feel it's a
I'm not saying you guys are bad for
[49:12] making that decision. It's a decision
that someone has to make. I just don't
[49:16] feel confident taking a 15% to 10% jump.
I think it's a little too expensive for
[49:23] the people.
>> Can I just ask?
[49:26] » Absolutely. How long would you be
willing to do the 6 and a half or so?
[49:30] Like if we said because my thought was
and run it out for 6 years.
[49:36] » Absolutely. My thought was that extra
money that's coming out of the five
[49:41] years. If it comes out in 10, it's still
extra money. We're just prolonging the
[49:47] period of when we're going to get that
amount. That's my thought. That's how
[49:51] I'm basing those numbers. Um I don't
know if it's right or wrong. I just
[49:58] that's just my thought given given the
price [clears throat] where people are
[50:03] like the cost of daily living. Um
yeah
[50:08] » and I and I hear what you're saying
based on the cost of living everything's
[50:13] high. Everything's way high. I
understand that. I do. Um, but back in
[50:21] 1972,
the cost of heating your house was way
[50:25] high. And so all of these charges were
not raised then. They were kept low. And
[50:32] they were kept low in the 80s because it
was a good thing to do. And so now, like
[50:38] Mindy said, we're in the same position
that Cesa was in.
[50:43] I don't think we can do a good job for
the residents of the city of Perry by
[50:50] keeping the rate so low now that we
can't catch up ever and can't protect
[50:57] them at a time where we need to.
>> That's right. I it if you looked at the
[51:03] and I'm sure everybody has but you know
if you looked at the information that
[51:08] Megan provided based on OM's
recommendations
[51:13] um
I I felt that a 12 to 15% increase
[51:21] starting in July gave
our residents enough heads up so they
[51:28] could make whatever budget adjustments
ments they would need to make to start
[51:33] paying that increased rate in July. If
we did that rate for
[51:40] five years,
revisited it, it might be able to be
[51:45] dropped by then.
It might be able to be dropped sooner
[51:51] and it could be dropped sooner. I I just
can't see that a 12% increase
[51:59] is unaffordable.
>> I I beg to differ. Not everyone has the
[52:05] same standard of of of living. Not
everyone. There's a lot of people who
[52:09] are not able to afford living right now.
>> But with a budget adjustment, perhaps
[52:14] they could.
>> I don't see the money itself is not
[52:17] going to change. if someone's paying
$200 in food or $150 to go to work or
[52:23] this is not going to change. As a matter
of fact, it keeps on increasing every
[52:28] time [cough]
gas prices or or whatever it is. Um, and
[52:33] that's why I want to buy them the extra
time. I might not be doing much by by
[52:37] saying a six and a half or even a 7% but
I I and the 7% that we're talking about
[52:45] versus the um the 10% at the annual cost
it's not that much difference.
[52:54] Um it's going to be like 20 30,000
maybe.
[53:00] I wish I had it.
[53:10] » But if we were to do the if the 10% was
five or seven,
[53:16] so if you were to say 7%.
>> A 15% increase is $9.84 84 cents on the
[53:27] monthly water bill for just already just
and that's that
[53:31] » on the base rate
>> on the and that yeah and that includes
[53:35] » um
the trash and the base which is not
[53:39] increasing it's just the the other
things
[53:43] it's a 51 cent increase
for water usage
[53:50] » so that 984 didn't include that 51 cents
because know what somebody's going to
[53:55] use, right?
[54:03] » Smaller picture is
[54:08] there would be a total of $152,000
212.
[54:15] That would be the the price difference
between in five years span between a 7%
[54:22] and a 10%.
>> Let's talk about what the monthly rate
[54:25] is because you say we shouldn't increase
it very much because of what people can
[54:31] afford.
>> Let's look at what their monthly bill
[54:35] increases by. That's what Shirley was
saying. Did you hear?
[54:38] » It's $984.
>> 84.
[54:42] » Mhm.
And that's for for for one month over
[54:48] five years. How much is that?
>> I'm talking about the expense it is to
[54:53] the household. $9 more a month,
>> how much it affects their right.
[55:01] » I I I understand, but someone has to
talk about those people who cannot
[55:05] afford the $9.84
increase. Not everyone can afford it.
[55:09] And that's the thing that I think we're
we're um not on the same page on.
[55:15] » Yeah, I guess we're not.
>> Not everyone is able to afford a $5
[55:19] increase on the prices of gas, of milk,
the prices of eggs, the prices of Not
[55:26] everyone is able to afford this far. And
the $9.84
[55:32] might not be a big deal for for some
people, but they might be a big deal for
[55:36] other people. someone who's on fixed
income because they are retired. Uh
[55:41] what's the average age that we have in
in Perry? I think the majority of them
[55:47] are retired. A lot of people are
retired,
[55:49] » but they're not. You need to look at
that because our household income is not
[55:54] in the low range.
>> It's above average.
[55:58] » But those poor people need someone to
talk for them. And I think I'm going to
[56:02] be that person if you're not willing to.
Don't do that to me, Camal. That's
[56:07] really unfair.
>> But but it's not fair for you to say $10
[56:11] everyone will be able to afford. I
understand $10 a month is not that big a
[56:15] deal. I just don't believe that it is.
$152,000. What will you do with $152,000
[56:23] in 5 years?
>> Nothing.
[56:26] » Nothing. Right? That's the difference
between the 7% and the 10%.
[56:37] That is the difference.
152,212.
[56:45] If my math is wrong, please let me know.
>> I can't go with it.
[56:52] » And that's okay. And that is okay. I
don't mind it. I'm just I I just feel
[56:58] it's a big jump. See, I I feel like I'm
the person you're talking about. My
[57:03] finances are are very scary. Um my son's
going to be moving in with me to help me
[57:08] because, you know, things are so tight.
But even I don't have a problem with the
[57:14] $9 extra a month because you got to look
at the big picture. I mean, we don't
[57:19] want to find ourselves in this in the
city as being in trouble and we could
[57:25] end up being in trouble.
It's, you know, it's not easy. It's
[57:30] going to hit me. I know I can't afford
an extra $10 a month, but I'm going to
[57:35] have to pay you because I You got to
look at big picture. We don't want to
[57:40] end up like a small, you know, and all
of a sudden what if, God forbid,
[57:45] something does happen and we don't have
that money saved up, we could find
[57:49] ourselves in real trouble. But I get
what you're saying. I mean, but but are
[57:54] things ever going to get better? I mean,
you know, things are expensive. I don't
[58:00] see that changing. People are going to
be upset having to pay more. I don't see
[58:04] that changing either. Whether it's, you
know, July or whether it's 5 years from
[58:09] now, no one's ever going to be happy to
have to pay more money.
[58:12] » But, you know, we can't sacrifice the
city
[58:17] because it's going to be hard for a few
folks. And but honestly, at me being so
[58:23] poor, I can tell you $9 a month ain't
going to kill me. And I think most
[58:28] people would kind of agree with that.
Now, if you start talking $29 a month,
[58:32] okay, now that I'm now I'm on board with
you because, you know, that would be too
[58:38] much of a hardship, but I don't think $9
a month is that big of a hardship. you
[58:44] know, at the end of the day,
>> could we
[58:48] could we do like a 10, a seven, a 10, a
seven, something like that? Is that more
[58:57] » even if it appealing?
>> I mean, it's
[59:01] my original question was $152,000
that's extra in the next five years.
[59:07] What will you do with it? that that's
>> well I mean it's gonna get invested in I
[59:12] to name a particular thing it'll be
roughly half of a well
[59:16] » to drill a well
>> okay
[59:18] » let's just say that let's say it's
300,000 to put in a new well
[59:22] » that's not really getting the water to
the water treatment plant it's just
[59:27] pouring it in the ground building the
wellhouse around it the pumps and
[59:31] everything
that's roughly half of it
[59:36] this stuff is
extreme extremely expensive and you know
[59:41] I wish it it was easier. Um you know and
I I fully understand what you're saying.
[59:47] I I would love to be able to run the 2
and a half%
[59:54] » for however long.
>> Let's talk about that $150,000.
[1:00:00] What would he do with it? Well, he said
it's not enough to accomplish the Well,
[1:00:05] however, if we applied for a grant, if
the city applied for a grant
[1:00:11] and it was a 50/50 match,
then we've got 150,000 to match the
[1:00:19] legislature grant for a total of 300,000
to do the new well. So, would we be able
[1:00:28] to use that? Yeah, I think we would.
[1:00:33] » That's a really good point.
>> Yeah, legislative grant money is not
[1:00:39] absolutely free. Um, this grant we've
applied for for Keiny Street has a
[1:00:46] matching amount and we had to have Megan
look into that. How much of a match
[1:00:52] could we do? and she did a whole lot of
digging and said, "Well, we could do
[1:00:58] this much." And so that's what we put in
our application as being able to match.
[1:01:05] And there's always almost always
matching money
[1:01:10] because truly
we'd have to raise our rates
[1:01:16] way higher to be able to pay for all
this ourselves.
[1:01:21] So, what we're trying to accomplish is
to have enough money in the bank
[1:01:27] to accomplish it perhaps through
matching money for a legislative grant
[1:01:31] of some kind. And you never know if
you're going to get that anyway. So, if
[1:01:36] you don't get the grant, then you're
still saving and still saving.
[1:01:41] Um, we've been told that we have issues
with one of our wells. How do we know
[1:01:47] how long that's going to last? We don't.
We are based on the information that OM
[1:01:53] provided in their study.
We're holding on by however many
[1:02:00] threats. Um, but we need to be setting
money aside to address these things. I
[1:02:06] mean,
>> we're going to achieve
[1:02:08] » it doesn't help the city people who are
paying 6% or 12% if they don't have
[1:02:16] water anyway. Um we need to be able to
accomplish what we're supposed to
[1:02:24] accomplish in providing water and sewer
services to the city. And yes, it would
[1:02:29] have helped if the rates would have been
raised
[1:02:34] more in the past, but they weren't.
And um I'm not like Mindy said blaming
[1:02:42] anybody for that. It was fairly common
for that to happen. But if we keep doing
[1:02:47] that, we're just kicking the can down
the road.
[1:02:49] » That's right. That's right.
>> I mean, if and I'll I'll confess with
[1:02:54] Kristen. I mean, my husband and I are
both retired and uh
[1:03:01] we don't do a lot of things that other
people that we know and have known for
[1:03:06] years and years do. We don't take long
vacations. We don't go to a lot of
[1:03:12] movies. We don't spend extra money on,
you know, things that other people spend
[1:03:18] because we don't have it. We try to keep
money in the bank for emergencies. But
[1:03:25] yes, we could pay another $9 a month, an
additional nine,
[1:03:30] possibly even 15 if we, you know, needed
to. But if it was 30,
[1:03:37] there might be a problem.
>> Then we're going to have a conversation.
[1:03:40] » That's right. Yeah. But I I recognize,
Kamal, I do. I recognize that we do have
[1:03:46] people in our community. They're in
every community.
[1:03:49] » And Sue, I didn't mean to call you out
in that way either in that meeting. I'm
[1:03:55] just I'm just really struggling with
that with a 15 person. We do have
[1:04:00] provisions if you're not aware of them
um for people who are financially
[1:04:07] uh challenged to be able to get
assistance to cover their water bill.
[1:04:15] They just have to come to the city and
talk to Shirley about it.
[1:04:24] » I haven't heard you. What do you think?
[1:04:32] » Basically agree. I basically agree with
everybody what everybody saying, but
[1:04:38] I'm all for the
$9.84 a month.
[1:04:45] » 15%.
>> What is that?
[1:04:48] » 15%.
[1:04:55] Well, if I'm understanding correctly
from Shirley and Megan,
[1:05:00] not only do we need to do what the
motion in our minutes says is to set the
[1:05:07] date for the public hearing, but along
with that, we have to set a rate,
[1:05:14] » which I did not write a motion for. I'm
sorry.
[1:05:21] So if we have more discussion, please
feel free to bring it. Otherwise,
[1:05:28] feel free to make a motion
based on the rate recommendation
[1:05:36] for the water sewer rate.
[1:05:40] I move that we set a public hearing for
October 1st, 2026 at 7:15 p.m. to
[1:05:48] discuss a possible
15%
[1:05:52] increase in water sewer rates.
Is that right?
[1:05:58] » That's good.
>> Do we have a second?
[1:06:00] » A second.
[1:06:05] » I understand.
I do too do believe me.
[1:06:13] » It's been moved by Mindy, seconded by
Kristen.
[1:06:18] » All those in favor of that motion,
please signify by saying I.
[1:06:23] » I.
>> No.
[1:06:24] » Have to wait a minute.
>> Those opposed? Nay.
[1:06:28] » Nay.
>> Now we need to take a roll call vote.
[1:06:34] » Mindy Gabby.
>> Yes.
[1:06:38] Kristen Fable.
>> Yes.
[1:06:42] » Mr. Paul.
>> Yes.
[1:06:47] » Kamalazi.
>> No.
[1:06:54] » We do have
[1:06:58] enough votes to carry this forward.
So, the motion passes.
[1:07:09] Thank you for all of your discussion and
all of your concerns.
[1:07:14] And this will go to a public hearing
then for October 1st. That will be
[1:07:20] during the October 1st council meeting.
Surely we'll post this public hearing
[1:07:29] and um hopefully we'll have people come
to share their
[1:07:35] thoughts.
[1:07:39] Moving to our next agenda item number
four, we have an elevator contractor
[1:07:46] discussion.
[1:07:58] Um, so I presented this a few months
ago. I think it was um
[1:08:04] a
um
[1:08:08] Oh, I'm sorry. Something from Schindler.
They they sent me to sign and um to
[1:08:14] receive like a 5% discount for a 10-year
extension on a contract. Um Bob wanted
[1:08:21] me to look around and find um maybe a
couple different quotes. Uh I was able
[1:08:28] to find one quote and
if you guys want to wait for Bob for
[1:08:33] this because he was the one that asked
to wait. We most certainly can do that.
[1:08:38] Um but I did. The company that I got a
hold of was Otis Elevator. Uh they
[1:08:43] provided me with a quote. I emailed our
current contract to um the attorney the
[1:08:50] quote that they sent me and he provided
this recommendation
[1:08:56] and I don't know if everybody's read it
or not. Um but he basically is saying
[1:09:01] that we can end our contract. I have to
give them a a written notice just like
[1:09:06] it says in the con in the in our
contract um be no later than October
[1:09:12] 3rd. So, we would have to decide um at
the meeting on October 1st,
[1:09:18] but
they are proposing
[1:09:23] um $2,520
per year.
[1:09:28] There is a possible 5 to 7% increase
with with each year in that contract. Um
[1:09:36] I think I put that in your packet. Did I
put that in there? Do you see that? I
[1:09:42] don't remember.
>> It just says what? Did I Did I give that
[1:09:45] to you? See?
>> No. Okay. So, if right now we're paying
[1:09:53] uh 3 thou we paid $3,87.11.
That was for our service from February
[1:10:01] 1st to January 31st of 2027.
>> And that's with Schindler.
[1:10:05] » That's with Schindler. So, we would be
renewing. We would not be renewing. We
[1:10:10] would be entering into a new contract
with Otis Elevator $2,520.
[1:10:16] If we did this and we went for the seven
years, even after the I'm sorry, 5 years
[1:10:22] with the 7% increase that they say could
happen every year, we'd still be under
[1:10:28] the $3,800. So, it' be 330321.
>> Does does the Schindler contract have
[1:10:34] the same provision for increasing every
year?
[1:10:36] » Increase every year. Yes. Uh last year
in 2025 we paid 36.98.91
[1:10:46] 2024 244183
and it just gets lower
[1:10:52] each each month by then or each year.
So it started out in 2020 at 254328.
[1:11:03] So, we're
it's a better
[1:11:06] » Oh, Otis is a well-known um elevator
company. I mean, they've been in
[1:11:11] business for an awfully long time. Um,
just to say that out loud.
[1:11:19] Does anybody have any discussion
regarding either of these contracts?
[1:11:23] » I think those are like the main two. Um,
I don't think there's a whole lot of
[1:11:29] competition other than those two. So
>> I did the one the school said they use
[1:11:34] » Yeah, but they never called me back. So
I don't want to
[1:11:38] » is not the one.
>> Yeah.
[1:11:40] » Um or something like that or
>> So you had trouble finding other places
[1:11:46] to give you
>> well
[1:11:48] » bids.
>> The maintenance supervisor from the
[1:11:51] school came in and I asked him who they
use because I totally forgot they had an
[1:11:56] elevator. Megan told me and he told me.
So, I reached out to them, but I just
[1:12:01] never got a response. And it's been a
few weeks. So, and I just This has been
[1:12:06] sitting here for I feel like a couple
months at least since I presented it at
[1:12:12] the last meeting, which
>> Well, I think you've done what Bob
[1:12:16] asked. I mean, he asked to compare this
to others. And so you have attempted to
[1:12:22] find other companies and did eventually
get this uh bid or quote from Otis, but
[1:12:30] never got a response from the third one.
And just so you know, I did all the
[1:12:35] homework first. I came down, I took
pictures of the elevator room. I emailed
[1:12:40] them to the lady. She sent somebody out
after she got the pictures. they came
[1:12:44] and looked at it to make sure that the
2520 per for the first year what she'd
[1:12:49] be able to stick to that you know if we
had different I don't know anything
[1:12:53] about elevators other than they go up
and down so um so they they came out
[1:13:00] they looked at it and they're still with
the same price so they didn't increase
[1:13:04] it after coming out and looking at it
>> so the Otus contract would be for a
[1:13:10] duration of five years
[1:13:15] So I had a question on page three of the
okay the price adjustment.
[1:13:24] Um the first sentence it says the the
contract price is subject to increase in
[1:13:30] response to increases to operational
administrative labor and other industry
[1:13:37] related economic factors. Is that
typical?
[1:13:41] I had Justin look at this. I He
um
[1:13:47] » I don't know.
>> Okay. So, he didn't feel that was
[1:13:51] » he didn't say
um
[1:13:56] let's see.
[1:14:00] He just says that if we wish to
terminate and or not renew a Schindler
[1:14:04] maintenance agreement, I recommend that
the city city send a written notice of
[1:14:09] termination. very sad. Um,
[1:14:22] yeah, it doesn't really say.
So, and my other question was on page
[1:14:30] six, the exclusions.
I think that's probably the same answer.
[1:14:36] He didn't say that. I didn't see there
was a problem.
[1:14:48] So it's say so I I kind of like feel
like that's kind of like maintenance
[1:14:52] item or um if if the panel falls off I
will have to pay to fix you know like if
[1:15:00] a ceiling falls down they're not that's
not covered under their maintenance
[1:15:04] agreement. as like an extra.
>> They're maintaining they're maintaining
[1:15:09] the
>> Yes.
[1:15:11] » motors, the you know the engine,
>> right?
[1:15:14] » The stuff that makes it run.
>> So that would be an additional
[1:15:17] » like I remember one time I think
something was wrong with the call box
[1:15:22] inside the elevator. It wasn't working
and we had to pay to have that repaired.
[1:15:30] Um yeah, right here. And so, and don't
ask me what it was because it was in
[1:15:36] 2022, but it's um my note in accounts
payable was elevator repair to due to
[1:15:44] power fail failure and it was almost
$900. So, whatever happened that was not
[1:15:50] that was out of the maintenance
um portion of their contract.
[1:15:58] » I didn't really explain this whole thing
very well, so I'm sorry.
[1:16:01] » No, you didn't fine. I understood it.
>> [laughter]
[1:16:05] » Does anybody have other questions for
[1:16:15] » And remember when I
So I did actually go back and ask
[1:16:23] uh Schindler the 5% discount any of the
discount 2% 3% or 5% discount.
[1:16:32] They're giving us a discount, but that
doesn't mean they're not going to raise
[1:16:36] it their five. So, it's not really even
a discount. I don't think you
[1:16:40] » If they raise it 5% and they give us a
5% discount, we're paying the same
[1:16:44] amount.
>> Yeah.
[1:16:46] » I think it's kind of just a play on
words where Oh, yeah.
[1:16:53] » Sign that. So,
[1:16:58] » but if you guys want to wait till Bob's
here, that's totally fine. I don't have
[1:17:01] a problem with it. that it's just
sitting there and I'll just put it on
[1:17:05] the agenda for next the 17th.
>> As long as nothing happens that we
[1:17:13] » we want to change.
>> Well, but if we meet and make the
[1:17:18] decision on the 17th, she has time to
notify Schindler that we're canceling
[1:17:24] that contract and we have time then to
enter into the contract
[1:17:28] » no later. Yep. No later than October 3rd
or no earlier than October 3rd but no
[1:17:36] later than November 2nd is what it says.
So I actually have until November.
[1:17:40] » So we do still have
>> Yeah. And so and remind me how much are
[1:17:43] we paying Schindler?
>> We are pay we paid Schindler
[1:17:47] for the last contract. Sorry,
>> 3,87
[1:17:53] I think it was 11. Okay. And 11 cents.
Yep.
[1:17:56] » I don't know where I just had that.
[1:18:00] And Otis's is 2520.
>> Right. Right.
[1:18:04] » So even after the five years, say we
went with Otus, even after the five
[1:18:09] years, if they increase their rate every
year 7%, we would still only be paying
[1:18:15] 30 I don't want to say only 3303, but
>> less.
[1:18:20] » It's still less than what we're paying
right now.
[1:18:22] to shindle
>> to
[1:18:26] » what do you think about waiting for
>> that's a big difference
[1:18:35] I
>> I think it's pretty obvious but that's
[1:18:38] up to you guys absolutely
>> whether you want to vote on that tonight
[1:18:42] or if you want to table it that's up to
you [snorts]
[1:18:47] » you need to decide
>> okay
[1:18:51] » I either way.
>> I think yeah, I could go either way, but
[1:18:53] I feel like we could vote on it.
>> All right. I move that we approve the
[1:18:56] elevator service code from Otus Elevator
for a period beginning January 1st, 2027
[1:19:03] through December 31st, 2031 in the
amount of $2,520
[1:19:12] for the first year and annual increase
of 5 to 7% each following year. Uh we
[1:19:18] authorize city clerk to sign the
contract.
[1:19:24] » Looking for a second.
>> Second.
[1:19:28] » We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by
MNE. All those in favor of that motion,
[1:19:32] please signify by saying I.
>> I.
[1:19:35] » Those opposed, nay.
Motion passes.
[1:19:40] Our next item on the agenda um is a city
hall door replacement. And we're not
[1:19:47] ready for that. Is that right, John?
Talk to us about
[1:19:50] » I want to move it to the October 1st
meeting. Okay. Whatever the date would
[1:19:54] be. Is that okay?
>> Sure. So to the October 1st meeting.
[1:20:03] » I move that we table the city hall door
replacement code discussion to October
[1:20:08] 1st. uh
and the next meeting.
[1:20:15] » Second. Do I have a second? Mindy. We
have a motion from Kamal, seconded by
[1:20:20] Mindy. All those in favor of that
motion, please signify by saying I.
[1:20:25] » I.
>> Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes.
[1:20:33] » Council, is there any other business to
come before council at this time?
[1:20:38] Council
[1:20:43] discussions or observations.
[1:20:48] We have any further public comment? Yes,
John.
[1:20:50] » Yeah. First of all, I want to
thank council's
[1:20:55] very healthy conversation regarding the
rights to the water sewer increase. I
[1:21:01] think it's pretty healthy and everybody
was very honest with their opinions. I
[1:21:06] have a suggestion.
When this is presented to the public,
[1:21:12] 15% is going to look like a a lot. $9,
$6, it's 15%. Anything going up 15%
[1:21:22] people are going to sit back and not
take it. Well,
[1:21:26] um, my suggestion is you need to find
some compromise
[1:21:32] that you've searched out, you found ways
to reduce that utility bill, this
[1:21:40] utility bill been a crawl up my sleeve,
whatever, ever since I've come here by
[1:21:48] taking this and making it based on
usage, which is a nice way to do in
[1:21:52] terms of fairness, But it takes it off
the table for tax deduction deduction.
[1:21:59] You can't deduct what you pay utilities
if you are. It's against the law. The
[1:22:05] IRS does not allow a deduction for usage
of water, usage of a service that you
[1:22:14] pay when you go. if you've tacked it on
as part of the bill and I'm sure there's
[1:22:21] a way you can add it into the bill how
you aortion it on the bill and I
[1:22:26] understand that becomes complicated
because obviously if the house is worth
[1:22:31] more
it you know it's going to it's going to
[1:22:34] pay more than if the house is less
regardless of usage
[1:22:38] » not on water sewer no
>> no no what I'm saying that's the way it
[1:22:41] is now I agree right now it's based on
actual usage
[1:22:46] But but it's not John. That's what I'm
trying to say. The there's a base rate
[1:22:51] for water. There's a base rate for
sewer. Yeah.
[1:22:54] » Then there's an additional charge for
water usage.
[1:22:58] » Right. What I'm saying is that it's not
tax deductible. Now,
[1:23:03] » if it was on the the actual bill, I
think it becomes tax deductible. Just a
[1:23:10] thought. That's that's that's aside from
my my reason for m making these
[1:23:15] comments.
Look for some way you can offer people
[1:23:21] an offset.
Whatever it is, you're saying it's going
[1:23:25] to be about nine bucks a month more,
whatever.
[1:23:29] If you can find $3 a month, $4 a month
in that utility bill. I mean, we used to
[1:23:36] not charge for this waste pickup. All of
a sudden about four or five years ago we
[1:23:42] started charging for the waste pickup
waste launch that used to be just
[1:23:46] included I guess.
Think about some of those items. Could
[1:23:52] you save or offset
a few dollars in the utility bill so
[1:23:59] that you're saying well you know this is
this and this.
[1:24:03] It would just PR work. It would be well
I think it be a suggestion. So I leave
[1:24:09] that with you
>> and we appreciate that suggestion. We'll
[1:24:12] have our treasurer look into the
possible tax.
[1:24:17] » Any compromise
>> trail would be I think a nice gift.
[1:24:22] » Yeah. OM engineering will be here for
[music] that meeting and they'll do
[1:24:27] their presentation um their PowerPoint
showing um you know the the rates and
[1:24:36] what we need to accomplish and how each
rate matches up or doesn't falls below
[1:24:42] or above. I think that helps to explain
it a little bit. But I hear what you're
[1:24:47] saying. I just don't know. I don't know
any any possibility, but we'll ask Megan
[1:24:53] to kind of look into that. Shirley might
have some thoughts. I don't know if John
[1:24:57] does, but we'll certainly look into
those ideas.
[1:25:02] » Any other public comment? Mark, did you
have anything else you wanted to say?
[1:25:07] Okay.
>> I [clears throat] laugh, but I'm not
[1:25:09] going to say it.
All right. [laughter]
[1:25:14] » What agenda.
>> If surely could could mention the $9
[1:25:20] increase, it would
be easier to comprehend how much we're
[1:25:26] talking here.
>> Yes.
[1:25:28] » Well, I I think like the numbers that
they're that are presented, they're
[1:25:33] they're just big numbers. It's like a
it's the big picture.
[1:25:37] » It makes it more palatable. to for me to
hear it broken down,
[1:25:42] » right?
>> Because then because then you think,
[1:25:44] "Oh, I can do that."
>> But so yeah, I agree with you. That
[1:25:50] might help.
>> Sorry.
[1:25:54] » No, that's a good thought.
>> Interrupted.
[1:25:58] » Any any other thoughts, council, you'd
like to share?
[1:26:02] Our next agenda items? Um maybe we could
get an update on the data center
[1:26:08] moratorum next time.
>> Oh yes.
[1:26:11] » Um
and we are going to address a proposed
[1:26:16] change in our standing committees. Um
it after looking at it, Shirley and I um
[1:26:25] and Megan were in discussion as to
whether we still needed the
[1:26:31] pension committee. They've not met since
I've been mayor and that's been six
[1:26:36] years.
>> And so we talked to John because he's
[1:26:39] the city employee. So we're going to put
that on the agenda for discussion next
[1:26:44] time to perhaps eliminate that
committee.
[1:26:48] And I'm hoping that we'll have
appointments to the planning commission.
[1:26:53] So please, if anybody is um interested
in serving on the planning commission,
[1:26:59] please let someone at city hall know. Um
and council please give consideration to
[1:27:06] sitting on the ordinance committee and
let me know if you are. So I think
[1:27:12] that's all.
>> Where will the moratorum updates come
[1:27:16] from?
>> Surely she's the zoning administrator.
[1:27:19] » Okay. Well will ordinance committee
should meet and
[1:27:26] » Okay. I think I think the ordinance
committee should meet because it's an a
[1:27:31] zoning ordinance and then we'll discuss
what we want how we want to approach
[1:27:36] that I guess.
>> So the zoning administrator is asking
[1:27:39] for the ordinance committee to
>> Okay.
[1:27:42] » I just didn't find out what happened
until we had all of our in
[1:27:46] » Oh well I think I have like some
suggestions but I should probably check
[1:27:54] with the attorney and make and Yes.
>> I mean, I'm looking at some stuff.
[1:28:01] » Okay. I will I will give it to him.
>> Okay. Well, I I'll ask him. It might not
[1:28:07] be a quick answer, but I'll ask him on
Tuesday.
[1:28:11] » Okay.
>> All right.
[1:28:14] » Anything else? Anything else for next
agenda?
[1:28:18] Anybody? Anybody going on?
>> Then our meeting is adjourned. It is
[1:28:24] 8:28.