1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:21,960 Well, am I the temporary chair, pro-tam? I nominate you. Okay. And I second that. All right, roll call, well, Erin and I are here. I don't see any normal citizens. I should see any of those citizens. The way to put it. 2 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:30,600 and the June 23 months look good to me and okay those are approved. 3 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:33,620 I'm going to 4 00:00:33,620 --> 00:00:36,740 assume Tim you're the one who's going to talk about an assistant lawyer. 5 00:00:43,820 --> 00:00:44,920 So I am 6 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,500 here just to kind of a little conversation about a possibility of a new 7 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:55,680 position. Sam was the previous clerk of council slash legal assistant and we were 8 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:03,280 hoping in lieu of replacing Sam's position, you know, there's not a huge increase in 9 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,500 salary to move forward with an assistant law to rental position. 10 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:10,880 It probably would be, I know there's benefits in everything associated with it, but I 11 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:16,120 know that Sam was right around high 60s in her pay. 12 00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:21,240 There was additional compensation of overtime in the previous position. 13 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,660 So this would be looking at it from the stance of we're still waiting to hear back from 14 00:01:25,660 --> 00:01:29,080 on the true grade that it would be placed in, 15 00:01:29,460 --> 00:01:33,260 but putting, getting an attorney position in place 16 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:35,400 in a lot of art on the civil side. 17 00:01:36,260 --> 00:01:37,900 There's a couple of benefits to this, 18 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,580 one of which it does improve the kind of 19 00:01:41,580 --> 00:01:44,060 cognitive services and the institutional knowledge 20 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:45,620 that's here, too. 21 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:48,080 It allows us to have some succession planning 22 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,740 in the sense of, you know, we've had in the past law directors 23 00:01:52,180 --> 00:01:54,800 that have left and, or gotten jobs elsewhere, 24 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,280 and there's nothing there's nobody else here we end up having a lot of outside 25 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,720 council costs and you know I know when I started I had a stack of stuff sitting 26 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:10,200 on a desk that hadn't been touched in four months and it was basically a we 27 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,600 don't know what's happening with all of this I'd also provide a little more 28 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,560 flexibility in the department and gives that a system law director the ability to 29 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,760 have a little more flexibility to get some additional responsibilities and 30 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,320 experience and familiar with the city operations. 31 00:02:24,820 --> 00:02:28,200 This isn't just looking to replace the administrative position with the additional 32 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:34,040 attorney, but to establish the kind of a more professional position that would also include 33 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,720 the clerk of council duties within. 34 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,800 So it would still be kind of a combined position, but it would be within their job description 35 00:02:41,340 --> 00:02:43,580 as having the clerk of council duties as well. 36 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:50,280 So this was hoping that once Archer comes back, we'll be able to have an ordinance in front 37 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:56,960 Council to move forward with this position and we would hold off on we would not fill the legal 38 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,620 assistance slash clerk of council position. That's it. 39 00:03:05,750 --> 00:03:06,430 Now 40 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,660 this we have regularly scheduled meetings 41 00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:21,760 with the mayor and Joe. House reached out to our council members and one of my topics I wanted to 42 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,900 talk with them about was I think we're getting too top of it city. 43 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,120 You know we had Pat 44 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,600 come on as assistant city administrator which I think was great. I mean we saw that need 45 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:41,180 that was something we need to fill. We got the DPU manager. I don't I don't see a need 46 00:03:41,180 --> 00:03:48,160 for two lawyers here and it's gonna cost us more maybe not much more but then you know 47 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:57,900 that lawyer is going to have to do CLE keep it all up and I'm I'm hesitant I mean do we that 48 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:04,860 think we can't find a paralegal I mean I thought Sam was a perfect yeah or you just coming at 49 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:11,120 more from you want to upgrade and you're not saying you haven't tried to hire a paralegal. No we have 50 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,800 not since Sam has left we have not tried to hire a paralegal. We were looking at the position 51 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,000 and kind of the needs on that level. 52 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,100 This isn't a deputy director of the area. 53 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:26,180 It basically is looking at it as the same thing 54 00:04:26,180 --> 00:04:27,880 as an assistant prosecutor position 55 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,060 just on the single side. 56 00:04:29,780 --> 00:04:31,180 So if you look at the prosecutor's side 57 00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:33,540 of the law department, we have the city prosecutor 58 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:35,140 and then we have an assistant prosecutor. 59 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,960 This would be a very similar scenario 60 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,540 versus having the law director 61 00:04:40,540 --> 00:04:43,100 on having the assistant in place on that side. 62 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:49,400 But it's going to be a lawyer they will be a lawyer and and see I think we have a prosecutor's system prosecutor over there for 63 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:52,000 Many years haven't we yeah 64 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,120 And I mean, that's kind of driven by the case 65 00:04:55,980 --> 00:04:58,060 Soon it is um I 66 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,640 I just 67 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,980 I'm not sure the works there to have another person in the direct law director's office 68 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,620 I mean, do you think it's needed? 69 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,760 I mean, Sam was, I thought kind of helping 70 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,240 the part of that work long. 71 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,860 So she could do, you could delegate to her. 72 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,900 There was some benefit to that position, 73 00:05:21,100 --> 00:05:24,420 but it really restricts having a paralegal place there, 74 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:25,780 really restricts the type of work 75 00:05:25,780 --> 00:05:26,600 that they're able to do. 76 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:27,260 Oh, sure. 77 00:05:28,060 --> 00:05:29,640 You know, as well as anybody that, 78 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:32,260 there is the baseline work that can happen, 79 00:05:32,260 --> 00:05:36,680 but it is constantly having to review, 80 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,440 having to change, having to do a lot of, you know, adjustments on that side. 81 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,220 Something that we were running into was, no matter what type of work was done, it was 82 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:51,900 still a lot of additional work for me to complete as well as anything with a little bit 83 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:54,880 higher level was not able to be completed all the way to the side. 84 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,000 All right. 85 00:05:57,140 --> 00:06:04,900 I see the chairman broke down with I go to the real chairman who was just arrived in Kevin 86 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:14,140 And just to bring up the speed, I was questioning in Tim, maybe you need to kind of re-summerize 87 00:06:14,140 --> 00:06:20,440 your, what you envision with the assistant city law director for Kevin, and I'll repeat 88 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:21,480 my thoughts in guess. 89 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:28,020 Yeah, my apologies to everyone, Tim, repeat yourself in the committee, it can't have that 90 00:06:28,020 --> 00:06:28,180 work. 91 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:29,220 Oh, no worries. 92 00:06:30,380 --> 00:06:34,800 Just for requesting the view of a position for assistant law director, this would be 93 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,480 in lieu of having a legal assistant slash clerk of council. 94 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,660 This would have the clerk of council duties built into that position. 95 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:48,100 There's a couple of reasons for this, one of which is it allows for another higher level, 96 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,480 you know, an attorney in place that could take care of some of the kind of more basic features 97 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,380 that I have to deal with on a regular basis. 98 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,240 It allows for additional succession planning for the city, so we don't run into a situation 99 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:05,080 in the path like we have in the past where a lot of actor leaves or ends up not able 100 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,580 to continue with their work and then you end up having months and months without having 101 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:09,940 any legal counsel for the city. 102 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:17,060 And it also allows us to kind of increase the city's legal capacity and developing a future 103 00:07:17,060 --> 00:07:19,220 leadership position possibly in the city. 104 00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:24,240 now this isn't a assistant as in a deputy head of the department it would be more 105 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,340 of looking at it as an assistant prosecutor and we're hoping that you know when 106 00:07:28,340 --> 00:07:32,180 archer scores it comes back on a similar level of saying you know there is 107 00:07:32,180 --> 00:07:37,280 not supervision there isn't any training about person of other individuals this 108 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,100 is just a you know subordinate category that they have the ability to help with 109 00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:47,960 the legal work that the city seems and I completely understand your thoughts on 110 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:53,840 You know, we are there's some if you think the city's getting top heavy in that I know that you know the elimination 111 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,960 I don't see this being a massive extra expense for the city 112 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:03,780 There are times where things get pushed aside and get pushed back on my end do the fact that you know 113 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:08,280 There's little fires everywhere that kind of go on you know 114 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:16,820 I had a couple of days off for a family reasons and I came back to you know tons and tons of emails with tons and stuff to do plus 115 00:08:16,820 --> 00:08:22,520 plus you know 30 public records requests plus you know everything else that was my daily 116 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:27,160 schedule coming in and that's just from a few days you know when I look at this there 117 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,480 might not be every day that it's going to be the busiest day in the world but we do have 118 00:08:33,860 --> 00:08:38,320 for what the city expects on the legal work to be completed we do have a lot of legal work 119 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,760 that is completed at the city you know we're viewing every contract that comes through making 120 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,160 sure that everything, all the terms are there, writing additives to agreements so that 121 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:47,480 we have. 122 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:53,060 We make sure that they're compliant with the Ohio law, that it does take up a lot of time. 123 00:08:53,700 --> 00:09:00,480 And then adding in the council duties, which is the drafting ordinances, resolutions, this 124 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,260 would cover the minutes, the agendas, and everything else, which also the very time consuming 125 00:09:04,260 --> 00:09:04,740 process. 126 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:12,860 And we're going to ultimately have to trust him judgment on this, but we're concerned 127 00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:14,180 I had to express that. 128 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,260 It's kind of reminiscent of the CPU manager. 129 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,860 I kind of feel like we're getting pretty tough at the year. 130 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:29,820 We've created a deputy for Amber fully justified, Pat was fully justified. 131 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,080 We've been talking about that for 10 years. 132 00:09:34,860 --> 00:09:40,260 And to your other points, I'll just give the rebuttal, you know, we've had prosecutors, 133 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:42,560 system prosecutors, but that's been for many years. 134 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,980 And I think that's driven by simply caseloading units. 135 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:53,140 And I thought, you know, I expressed this to everyone present. 136 00:09:53,420 --> 00:09:55,380 I thought the amber fit was really good. 137 00:09:57,340 --> 00:10:01,860 Having apparently, you only tend to explain when you came in apparently, you can do something 138 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:05,560 things, but they certainly can't do everything a lawyer can do. 139 00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:18,300 You mentioned public records request. I remember when Sam was hired, there was some thought 140 00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:24,180 that she could probably, with supervision by you, handle a lot of that. 141 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:36,920 And, you know, an assistant waterer would be more expensive than saying them, but maybe Tim was saying not that much more. 142 00:10:38,740 --> 00:10:46,660 But I'm concerned there would be additional costs that voters could have to maintain and COEs, and obviously I think the city would have to pay for that. 143 00:10:48,840 --> 00:11:03,500 I was just voicing random concerns and on the succession piece, I don't know how to say this exactly, but I'm not as worried about that now because you're here. 144 00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:13,280 I don't want to get into your predecessors, but that wasn't because they retired. 145 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:20,360 you know those just were candidates who really just didn't 146 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,620 the long-term didn't work out. 147 00:11:23,850 --> 00:11:25,730 So I'm going to assume you're 148 00:11:25,730 --> 00:11:30,630 going to be here for a long time doing a great job and will need 149 00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:33,910 to worry about success in many years down the road. Those are my 150 00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:36,970 random thoughts. I'm not dead set of folks, not just trying to 151 00:11:36,970 --> 00:11:42,010 voice concerns and I was really just kind of trying to poke a 152 00:11:42,010 --> 00:11:48,930 that why the Parallel Eagle Clerk of Council model couldn't work. 153 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:52,490 And obviously it could 154 00:11:52,490 --> 00:11:56,610 and it did, but you may be telling us that it worked better. 155 00:11:56,830 --> 00:12:00,050 The Parallel Eagle Clerk of Council worked very well for Council. 156 00:12:01,230 --> 00:12:11,150 Okay, I'll put that way. No matter what, there was a lot of review, a lot of overview, oversight, 157 00:12:11,150 --> 00:12:25,190 a lot of, you know, more than, you know, I should have handed up having a lot more of the oversight and then there were some things that were attempted to send one direction and they just did not work out going that direction. 158 00:12:26,130 --> 00:12:32,290 So it ended up being a lot more of a clerk of council position than a legal assistant slash clerk of council position. 159 00:12:33,250 --> 00:12:42,090 And it is tough in the sense of when you're looking at somebody that has the, you know, 160 00:12:42,170 --> 00:12:48,950 education and the ability to kind of proceed with doing a little higher level work, it 161 00:12:48,950 --> 00:12:51,690 is very much beneficial to all in that sense. 162 00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:58,430 As I said earlier, we do, I know I've worked with a lot of the, you know, law directors that 163 00:12:58,430 --> 00:13:03,330 know, I do it for a city, I do it for a village and I'm kind of, you know, they pay me hourly 164 00:13:03,330 --> 00:13:03,950 to do that. 165 00:13:05,410 --> 00:13:09,530 There's not an expectation a lot of times for them to be reviewing, you know, everything 166 00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:11,730 that comes to the city that has any legal implications. 167 00:13:11,790 --> 00:13:17,170 It's a higher level, you know, here reviewing the big things and making sure there's not a lot 168 00:13:17,170 --> 00:13:19,750 of liability whereas, you know, we do. 169 00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:23,990 We review everything that, before anything it's signed by the mayor, it's signed off on by 170 00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:30,010 myself and my amber, you know, which is a full review of everything associated with it, 171 00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:33,330 plus any supplemental terms or anything else that we have to add in. 172 00:13:35,210 --> 00:13:40,710 So there is a lot of work that goes into, you know, my side of things. 173 00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:47,150 And if I had a, you know, if I, if you could tell me I had a, you know, 20-year paralegal 174 00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:52,310 that had all of the experience and knew all that, and was a, I could sit down and run with 175 00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:57,230 them say okay you do it I would say absolutely but I don't think that our pay 176 00:13:57,230 --> 00:14:02,250 grade in that as well allows for that and I don't think if we get it scored they're 177 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:07,150 gonna say that's necessary for that position to have that because they scored the 178 00:14:07,150 --> 00:14:13,910 position already and they put it exactly where it is so the review of this was 179 00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:20,550 looking at it from there's I believe there is a big benefit to the city I'm not 180 00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:25,230 I'm looking at this more of not a deputy director and not anything else. 181 00:14:25,290 --> 00:14:31,590 This is more of just a employee position, no supervisory experience necessary, 182 00:14:32,270 --> 00:14:36,870 but the ability to grow in that position and in the legal side of the position. 183 00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:40,690 And as much as you guys hope that I'm here for years and years to come, 184 00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:44,670 there's no promises there, you know, this is a job, if something comes up. 185 00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:49,050 It has to take me in another direction, it has to take me in another direction. 186 00:14:49,050 --> 00:14:53,010 and I would be remiss to leave the city high and dry on the scenario like that of saying, 187 00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:55,930 oh, sorry, now, you know, 188 00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:59,310 have fun with the legal bills and everything else. 189 00:15:00,110 --> 00:15:30,090 On that. So I do think, you know, there's there are other opportunities with trying to find, you know, a paralegal. I just don't think that's going to be as beneficial for the department. Yes, this. So we still on need of the law. This wouldn't that we, I guess we changed that position. No, it was approved last council meeting. That the paralegal position is for the prosecutor's office. Okay, for the process. So the process. 190 00:15:30,090 --> 00:15:37,270 Housecutor's office will have still the city prosecutor, the assistant prosecutor, their paralegal, and 191 00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:41,310 that affect them's advocate and administrative assistant in that office. 192 00:15:42,110 --> 00:15:46,030 Okay, so if we had this role, we would not have a clerk on the top floor. 193 00:15:46,330 --> 00:15:51,170 This would be the clerk of council would also be included in the assistant law director's job position. 194 00:15:51,810 --> 00:15:55,610 And that would be a part of their job, would be making sure that they're here for the minutes. 195 00:15:55,630 --> 00:15:59,950 They're doing all of that as well to make sure that there's the time frames associated with 196 00:15:59,950 --> 00:16:05,050 as well as building the agendas and working through all that, which are duties that are 197 00:16:05,050 --> 00:16:09,030 placed on a lot of ractor, you know, if the clerk of council is not there, you know, the 198 00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:14,770 agendas and everything, writing ordinances, resolutions, everything else that isn't hard 199 00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:19,370 work, but it's long work, I should say. 200 00:16:22,070 --> 00:16:33,270 Well, and I think you make about a point that this position has gotten your position is 201 00:16:33,270 --> 00:16:40,050 getting into a far more broad range of duties and transactions. 202 00:16:40,590 --> 00:16:45,910 I mean, this is a heck of a lot more complicated city than it was even ten years ago. 203 00:16:46,830 --> 00:16:52,510 You know, at some point, I don't know what the magic population number is, but you go 204 00:16:52,510 --> 00:16:58,650 from being a little village or relative with small city to, I mean, we're not LA or anything 205 00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:04,850 I'm not saying that, but it's a pretty sophisticated organization now that gets into a lot of 206 00:17:05,330 --> 00:17:09,430 high-level stuff and I can't argue with you on that. 207 00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:15,890 And I'm taking a little bit by what you said that Sam worked out very well for counsel. 208 00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:16,630 She was great. 209 00:17:16,810 --> 00:17:17,170 I'm true. 210 00:17:17,330 --> 00:17:17,830 We all thought. 211 00:17:18,210 --> 00:17:23,790 But maybe it just wasn't as helpful to you as we thought it might be. 212 00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:30,490 So what stage are you at, tell you, you're going to send it out for salary analysis? 213 00:17:30,970 --> 00:17:34,050 At this point, there has been a CPQ drafted. 214 00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:35,630 It's out to Archer for review. 215 00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:37,230 They are in the process. 216 00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:39,670 this, they'll score that, they'll put a grade on it. 217 00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:42,310 And once that's done, it'll be something that we'd like 218 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:45,230 to bring forward and move forward on that side. 219 00:17:46,550 --> 00:17:48,910 I do understand thoughts on this. 220 00:17:49,050 --> 00:17:52,010 I know it's something that we haven't done in the past. 221 00:17:52,690 --> 00:17:54,710 It's something that other cities are size. 222 00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:56,670 Some of them have, some of them don't. 223 00:17:56,890 --> 00:18:01,030 As you grow, it's going to be something 224 00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:03,150 that's necessary to move forward with. 225 00:18:03,150 --> 00:18:09,770 But I also look at this as a, as much as, like I said, there's always the benefit to 226 00:18:09,770 --> 00:18:14,470 having additional parties that understand what's going on and have an idea of how everything's 227 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:20,150 moving forward. This might even give us the ability to pick somebody and grow them in an area 228 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:26,230 that might not be my strongest area either. So having somebody who is, I do a little bit of labor 229 00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:30,490 here and there, but I don't do a lot of it and having them grow and kind of helping out with the HR 230 00:18:30,490 --> 00:18:32,610 and working through that and getting some more training 231 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:34,090 in those areas could be beneficial. 232 00:18:34,270 --> 00:18:38,010 Now, with the additional education, CLEs, 233 00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:39,890 and the educational requirement, 234 00:18:40,030 --> 00:18:43,010 I mean, it's $400 every two years, 235 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:45,470 and then we do the limited CLE pass 236 00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:49,510 through Toledo of our association on an annual basis. 237 00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:51,010 That's another $300 a year, 238 00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:53,030 and that traditionally covers all the CLEs. 239 00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:54,750 There might be some conferences, 240 00:18:54,750 --> 00:18:55,870 there might be some training, 241 00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:58,510 but if you look at the budget for training 242 00:18:58,510 --> 00:19:02,870 for the lot of apartment, it's quite low due to the fact that most of it can be taken 243 00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:08,450 care of through those unlimited CLE package through the membership through the TBA, which 244 00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:10,310 we find greatly beneficial for the city. 245 00:19:11,490 --> 00:19:16,190 Can you not now off the top of your head? 246 00:19:17,370 --> 00:19:22,970 Can you give us a survey of similar size cities and you say some do some don't? 247 00:19:23,070 --> 00:19:26,070 I can look around and kind of gauge who has, who does not. 248 00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:41,210 Yeah, more than that. I think that's more information on that side. I don't know. I'm kind of familiar with some of them, but I don't know, particularly internally on that. I know more about who they're using as outside counsel. 249 00:19:41,230 --> 00:19:43,030 Let me do how they're doing it internally. 250 00:19:44,110 --> 00:19:51,110 Well, that's the other question, though, is we've tried to reduce outside counsel costs immensely over the past few years. 251 00:19:51,570 --> 00:19:57,410 I think we've been able to do so and you know I know that I hear from 252 00:19:58,150 --> 00:20:01,930 Joe every once in a while like use outside counsel for that and I try to I mean 253 00:20:01,930 --> 00:20:05,310 I'm one that might be a little micromanaging on that side but I'd like to know 254 00:20:05,310 --> 00:20:09,110 what I'm putting forward and making sure that it's what we're looking for is the 255 00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:15,530 city there so you know we have we have the benefit of utilizing outside counsel 256 00:20:15,530 --> 00:20:19,470 but it is also a lot more beneficial when you're able to have everything done in 257 00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:24,650 house and you know exactly how it's going to work yeah and you have some immediate oversight 258 00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:30,810 there and we control the timeframes we control when things happen it's not a we'll get to 259 00:20:30,810 --> 00:20:37,650 it when we get to it yeah you have reduced reliance on outside council so I remember pad cut the lawyers 260 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:44,750 out when he did the last police department negotiations you know they got a e2 you just just yank it right 261 00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:51,530 away from it might not be the same this year but no it's I guess that this is 262 00:20:51,530 --> 00:20:55,270 bringing it up just so that it's not a surprise we're trying to push something 263 00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:59,190 on the council wanted to give the opportunity to ask questions you know get 264 00:20:59,190 --> 00:21:02,270 thoughts and ideas but I can look into that and provide some more information on 265 00:21:02,270 --> 00:21:07,770 that side as well yeah and thanks for asking those questions and I'm relying on him 266 00:21:07,770 --> 00:21:13,510 as he you know the industry you know so but those are probably my immediate 267 00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:19,130 like sort of questions similar to extracted those I think the answers from you but you know when 268 00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:23,490 we and it actually seems like you're trying to mimic a little bit like our other departments 269 00:21:23,490 --> 00:21:30,030 there's a little bit of plan of succession in built-in but you mentioned this person would not have 270 00:21:30,030 --> 00:21:35,550 any supervisory role would you imagine that would probably have impact archers response to where 271 00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:42,710 they need to be in a pay van system. We believe so. Okay. Yeah. What will this look like for your 272 00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:48,030 department I guess financially where do you I guess where do you have like a budget like where 273 00:21:48,030 --> 00:21:53,430 this role were to fill this where how that's what that's going to do to your department and I 274 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:59,830 guess in comparison to when we might then spending an outside of council or just a cost analysis 275 00:22:00,490 --> 00:22:06,310 for the department I guess I can take a look at the true cost analysis once we get back the 276 00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:08,070 the grading for Marcher. 277 00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:11,490 You know, as once we see what they're kind of looking at 278 00:22:11,490 --> 00:22:14,550 and saying, hey, here's what our cost is associated with this. 279 00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:17,410 We can have a much better understanding of what we'd be 280 00:22:17,410 --> 00:22:20,570 looking for and how much costs would come out of there. 281 00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:24,170 The view of this would be about 25% of the time 282 00:22:24,170 --> 00:22:26,950 would be spent on clerk of council and council related duties. 283 00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:29,290 So of course, and that will come out of that budget, 284 00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:33,810 that account, and then the other 75% 285 00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:37,130 that would be coming out of a lot of Ireland's budget on that side. 286 00:22:38,770 --> 00:22:44,370 Do we ever go to Archer with, say, we have a budget number in mind and say, hey, 287 00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:46,890 this is what we'd like to achieve, build us a position. 288 00:22:47,650 --> 00:22:49,470 Like, we don't feel like we ever do that. 289 00:22:49,550 --> 00:22:50,910 Are they able to help us out with that? 290 00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:55,710 We don't really, I have not done so. 291 00:22:55,850 --> 00:22:58,570 And I think that the reason that I didn't look at it from that direction 292 00:22:58,570 --> 00:23:02,030 is I don't want them building a position that I want to be able to say, 293 00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:06,910 here's what we're looking for and it kind of looking at it from the stance of we're not 294 00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:12,550 putting any outside influence on archer it is a but this look at everybody around look 295 00:23:12,550 --> 00:23:14,330 what's out there and then great it from there. 296 00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:20,110 I feel like we put a lot of trust in there like when they come back with us with something 297 00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:25,830 I mean they're the experts I think that's why we hired them to do that but also. 298 00:23:26,670 --> 00:23:30,790 And we do because they look at all of the surrounding communities they look throughout 299 00:23:30,790 --> 00:23:35,250 the area. They look in the state of Ohio. They look, you know, they kind of do a, they've got detailed 300 00:23:35,790 --> 00:23:41,770 searches that they do that cover, you know, anything that we could try to do on our side 301 00:23:42,370 --> 00:23:47,710 and that additional information on that. So I wouldn't want to try to say, I want it to be at 302 00:23:47,710 --> 00:23:53,010 X$ amount because yes, they could easily come back and say, this is a grade, this position because 303 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:58,670 you said so. But it doesn't allow me to say, you know, this was independently scored by an outside 304 00:23:58,670 --> 00:24:02,030 agency and this is where they are and this is why we're in this pay range. 305 00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:10,270 So be you anticipate because I know we're getting or real I would say we're in budget 306 00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:15,130 season right we're preparing so would you anticipate this role being in the 307 00:24:15,130 --> 00:24:19,410 budget for next year as well what you're planning is for this department. 308 00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:23,910 I believe that we could even end up hiring this year if necessary because without 309 00:24:23,910 --> 00:24:28,870 Sam we have had a you know some not spent on that personal side or personnel 310 00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:33,710 side of the budget as well so some Sam spent out for a month now and by the time 311 00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:37,810 this kid would get hired and be you know two two and a half three months 312 00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:43,070 before of her being out which would allow for the extra to be but within the 313 00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:50,650 budget of mom it's the most likely this is the salary role so you 314 00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:53,990 wouldn't 315 00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:54,810 There would be no overtime. 316 00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:56,290 There would be no overtime. 317 00:25:01,070 --> 00:25:03,670 Yeah, the higher the nice thing about doing with the attorney's side, 318 00:25:03,670 --> 00:25:06,370 you get into the exact side of things where it's a, you know, 319 00:25:06,510 --> 00:25:07,790 the salary position and the exempt. 320 00:25:08,350 --> 00:25:11,230 It's a higher level so it's not the hourly and we don't want to have any overtime 321 00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:12,510 associated with that for meetings. 322 00:25:15,390 --> 00:25:15,750 But 323 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:25,380 I was able to give numbers wise and survey and I'll provide you some more 324 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:26,400 information on that side. 325 00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:31,820 You know, the, what I will say is any survey of the areas doesn't account for outside 326 00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:39,180 council usage in that. So I will take a look around and see what I can find across the board. 327 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:49,160 Yes, see what's happening. I mean, I don't know if you come back and tell us, hey, we'd be the 328 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,300 first of suburban jurisdictions to have a deputy's, what do you call it? The system order. 329 00:25:56,380 --> 00:26:02,380 I know it's something we need to know. We may say we need that because we got some things 330 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:07,480 ago on time. It's just one factor, etc. 331 00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:17,210 Again, at the end of the day, you know, your judgment 332 00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:23,430 recommendation may be the most important. Well, we have a, well, you could maybe, I'll 333 00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:27,410 ask this question, we have a unique, we might have a unique situation here because I feel 334 00:26:27,410 --> 00:26:33,130 like you're a role, you're, you cover the courts as well, too, technically, and they're 335 00:26:33,130 --> 00:26:36,510 don't you? I mean, the isn't a prosecutor under the law. 336 00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:40,490 Prosecutor is in the law department as well. So, the law department is the civil 337 00:26:40,490 --> 00:26:44,910 side and the criminal side. So, the city prosecutor is actually, you know, if you were 338 00:26:44,910 --> 00:26:49,390 look at it true, Levi's code would be an assistant law director on that side. And 339 00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:53,690 then we have an assistant prosecutor there. We call the municipal prosecutors just 340 00:26:53,690 --> 00:26:58,810 because that's what it is called within our code. But it'd be the same area there, but 341 00:26:58,810 --> 00:27:02,330 they have the supervisor and capacity and then we would have the other assistant 342 00:27:02,330 --> 00:27:04,410 and moderate actor, which would be Melissa, 343 00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:06,470 if we were going to my revised code terms. 344 00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:08,930 So basically any attorney that comes through 345 00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:11,450 would be considered an assisted moderate actor 346 00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:13,470 going through, it's like the attorney general 347 00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:17,090 having the attorney general that I got their deputy AGs 348 00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:20,110 and then you're an assistant AG. 349 00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:22,850 They have different associate assistant, 350 00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:25,170 senior assistant, prince call assistant, 351 00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:27,810 but they're all the assistants in the fact that, 352 00:27:27,810 --> 00:27:30,930 they're not the person doing it, but they are an assistant too. 353 00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:36,010 You know, I guess they ask that because that every municipality has a, I imagine their 354 00:27:36,010 --> 00:27:39,610 charters are in set up the same way as ours and they would not have everyone as a court. 355 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:40,670 Well, right? 356 00:27:40,670 --> 00:27:42,610 Yeah, not everybody does have a municipal court. 357 00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:46,090 And if you don't have a municipal court, you wouldn't have a city prosecutor. 358 00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:53,610 You might be hiring outside much like Northwood and Rossford do here where they have different 359 00:27:53,610 --> 00:27:57,990 firms that cover or their own, like Northwood's law director covers their prosecutor, 360 00:27:57,990 --> 00:28:03,050 the prosecutorial side for the one day or so that they come in for it. 361 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:09,140 Do you handle, do you handle anything over there at all? 362 00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:12,100 I mean, that might definitely cross rapid-tour, 363 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,580 not a civil side of things, or? 364 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,200 Not as often, okay. 365 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,260 We don't do the civil, we don't cover the civil court side of the court there, 366 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,100 but traditionally that would be due to the fact that there's plaintiffs attorneys 367 00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:27,480 and there's defense attorneys that are working through the lawsuits on that side. 368 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:34,020 And in general, we do take things to collections or anything else that's through the attorney 369 00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:38,460 general's office now, so we don't let them for all of our collections activities. 370 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:46,020 There's times that I may have to file over there, traditionally, if I'm handling something 371 00:28:46,020 --> 00:28:51,080 on that side, it is working with the prosecutor to develop a new citation for something or to 372 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,240 to work through something with this question through police or anything else on that side. 373 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:06,380 This is an interesting job because it is the true general practitioner job. 374 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,660 Here are 20 different things throughout the day and you might be working on 10, 12 different 375 00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:15,280 kinds of law. 376 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,580 There's a benefit of doing, I do this and this is what I do and this is how I do well. 377 00:29:22,460 --> 00:29:46,420 And so it is a little bit of, you know, is the benefit of having somebody else growing in that area as well and knowing what's happening, how things are moving forward and being able to delegate a little bit of actual work versus, you know, I need some legal research, I need to do, you know, this that or the other thing would be extremely beneficial. 378 00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:59,900 You have a timeline number one we make, get that back marcher, I don't know, I'm thinking relatively soon, okay? 379 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:29,470 You know, they should be back within a couple of weeks. And what's your plan as far as, like, potential legislation, or something to go for council? Yeah, they would go for council, but it's a discussion point for this committee, you know, if it's something you wanted to come back to. I mean, your timeline on that. Are you anticipating it's going to council like two weeks or after many meetings? If there weren't any questions today, I would ask for it to be moved to council. But it sounds like there are some questions. 380 00:30:29,470 --> 00:30:32,550 there are some things that you'd like to discuss a little bit further. So I'm wrong 381 00:30:32,550 --> 00:30:38,150 and fine with moving this to a, sorry, Amber. She's doing the clerical 382 00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:42,930 calcities. I'm telling you this one out. I'm more than fine with moving this 383 00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:47,150 towards if we want to have another discussion when it comes up. We are going to be 384 00:30:47,150 --> 00:30:51,330 working towards the other side as, like I said, its budget season. So this might 385 00:30:51,330 --> 00:30:54,530 be something that is included in the budget and then we have to work towards 386 00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:57,250 adjusting if it's not something to move forward. 387 00:30:58,490 --> 00:31:00,670 But I think it's very, sorry. 388 00:31:00,810 --> 00:31:01,330 Why is this guy? 389 00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:04,410 It sounds like he might, if it's ready to go to council 390 00:31:04,410 --> 00:31:06,910 for legislation, the first meeting in November. 391 00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:10,350 Well, it would be if it were ready to go, 392 00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:13,570 if we met again for the personnel committee 393 00:31:13,570 --> 00:31:16,310 to discuss another time, it would be moving to council 394 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:17,330 the first meeting in November. 395 00:31:18,370 --> 00:31:20,750 If it's, you know, go ahead and move on forward, 396 00:31:20,830 --> 00:31:22,310 it would be the first meeting in October, 397 00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:24,890 October, or mid-October whenever we got the next batch of marcher. 398 00:31:26,130 --> 00:31:31,050 And the legislation would look like every other piece of the, you know, 2, 6, 6, 15, 399 00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:36,510 1, 8, which is that adding a yellow line in the, that's not hard. 400 00:31:39,070 --> 00:31:46,730 I think I said, I think you probably heard with the committees, I guess, asking some information 401 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:52,470 that would be, you know, I feel like it would keep communicating with that with us. I mean, 402 00:31:52,510 --> 00:31:57,650 if you do have some draft legislation and the answers are provided in the committee 403 00:31:57,650 --> 00:32:03,870 in the meantime, we can even talk a lot about it at council as well, but just, hopefully 404 00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:07,110 you understand, we want to hear, we want some feedback a little bit on that position. 405 00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:07,750 Absolutely. 406 00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:16,390 Well, so I will hold together some more information for you and have been provided via email 407 00:32:16,390 --> 00:32:21,350 But I will if we want to have it on set it for the next personnel committee, we can absolutely do so. 408 00:32:24,470 --> 00:32:25,270 The work? 409 00:32:28,660 --> 00:32:29,640 Anything else, sir? 410 00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:31,740 No. 411 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:32,740 Other business? 412 00:32:34,460 --> 00:32:35,720 I didn't have one thing. 413 00:32:35,980 --> 00:32:37,000 I'm putting it all on the spot. 414 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,720 But do we have any anticipations? 415 00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:42,660 If we get into the next year or any growth in any other departments, 416 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,920 that we might want to anticipate? 417 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:54,760 Yeah, we are finishing up our conversations on a budget with the remaining departments 418 00:32:54,760 --> 00:33:01,960 on Thursday and then Joe, Amber, and Kayla and I are going to meet and kind of weed 419 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,200 through that and the other have been other departments that are asking for additional 420 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,740 people, you know, which we think there are some needs, other places, these are all to help 421 00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:21,740 put timidies, line level staff for the most part, but so then we're going to meet with 422 00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:27,320 the mayor next week to talk through that so we can get that to out to council in the near 423 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:33,940 future as far as what additional positions are in request. Obviously we have to live within 424 00:33:33,940 --> 00:33:39,080 what our projected revenues are, so we're not going to be able to cover all those positions 425 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:45,580 but we do hope to get some of those covers so we can get some people up to where they need to be 426 00:33:45,580 --> 00:33:50,720 because we're probably 10 to 15 years behind on where we should be staffing wise. 427 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,320 Anything else? No. 428 00:33:58,860 --> 00:34:02,540 All right, that's an awesome one, so consider yourselves a gentleman. 429 00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:03,980 Right, you call it.