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On the treaty and traditional territory of the Mississauga, the

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Ashenabic, we offer our gratitude to the First Peoples for

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their care for. It teaches a boat. Our earth and

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our relations. May we honor those teachings. Our next Edmo

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Business is 30 seconds. Of silent reflection.

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I'd ask those that are able to remove your hats

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to please stand for the singing of the Canadian National

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Anthem.

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Or. Strong and. Free.

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The Council of the City of Peterborough recognizes the principles

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contained in our Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights

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and Freedoms. The next type of business is approval of

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minutes of December 8th, 2025. And January 12th, 2026. Councillor

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Beamer, conference your question, Councillor pronounced Senator. Comments or questions.

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We're going to vote.

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And that is Carried Councillor's Basiliatus, the Councillor Dude are

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both online, Mr. Clerk. Is that correct? Thanks, your worship.

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We have Councillor Vassi Addis online at the moment. And

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we're just waiting for Councillor Dugay. Thank you. Zarade Decoration

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Pecurity Interest at this particular time. Decorations Councilor Burke, please.

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Merrill, thank you. I think I have an interest. On

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7B official plan and zoning bylaw amendment for 223 crescent

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street. I have a business relationship with RP with the

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applicant. I have a business relationship with the African. Thank

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you. We have that flag, Councillor Burke, 10. Aye. Any

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other declarations at this time. Declarations. I don't see any

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more decorations. Our next item versus register delegations. Our first

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delegation that the CD was going to be Martha Sullivan

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on 362 Queen Street. Peterborough, Ontario, report IPGPL 25 -

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009. Her concerns have been addressed, so she won't be

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delegating this evening. Our next series of delegations deals with

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the procedure bylaw report, LSCLK26 - 007, and our first

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presenter would ask Diane Terry inhale to come forward. Diane,

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please. If we could have your name and address for

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the public record, you know, the root five minutes to

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make a delegation after the end of four, we'll let

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you know you have one minute left. And as I

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said, if we could have your name and address for

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the public record. Sure. Four minutes and 15 seconds, the

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time did. So good evening, Mayor Leal and members of

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council. My name is Dianetarian Hale. I live at 626

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Romain Street in Peterborough. I am here to speak to

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the draft changes to the procedure bylaw. I fully understand

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the mandate of council to review the bylaw each term

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and update as needed. Some of the proposed changes are

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valid and necessary. Although others seem to be at odds

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with the municipality that despite the efforts of some counselors

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and staff, continues to face criticism about being somewhat archaic

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and a council that has often been accused of lacking

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and transparency and forward thinking decision making. First, I do

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support the proposed change to orally record closed session meetings.

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I believe that having oral recordings of in - camera

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meetings is important, particularly with reference to potential investigations regarding

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conduct in those meetings. I understand there are concerns from

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some counselors about this change. However, I fully trust the

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city clerk in their office to maintain those records securely

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and inconfidence. Second, I do not support the change regarding

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the banning of electronic devices, including cell phones and council

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chambers. In closed session, absolutely. But an open session, such

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a ban is an outright overreach of authority and something

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that literally know other municipality in the province has enacted.

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Passing the bylaw with this ban will only serve to

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further the city and this council's reputation as being stuck

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in the 20th century, unable and or unwilling to adapt

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to the current technological reality of how the world works

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in 2026. I take particular umbridge with some members of

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council who spoke in support of this change by making

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unfounded accusations towards other members and contributing their own state

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of desire to elect respect. Such cognitive dissonance continues to

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be disappointing, but not surprising. Moreover, implementing such a ban

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three months before the May 1st nomination period opens for

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the October Municipal Election seams as the kids would say

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highly sus. While the explicit purpose of this ban might

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not be to further alienate young people from the political

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process, I can tell you that that will be one

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of the outcomes. If you personally don't want to use

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or learn to use a cell phone, that's fine. But

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do not police the rest of council and the incoming

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council was such unnecessary and regressive measures. Lastly, with regards

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to limiting public delegations, I truly believe that further work

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should be done to ensure fairness and equitable access of

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residents to be able to speak before council. Limiting delegations

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to a maximum of 10, regardless of the number of

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agenda items is deeply problematic. There are often cycles of

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council where there are multiple highly contentious issues on the

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agenda and restricting the public's ability to delegate on those

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issues is not helpful in building trust and confidence between

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the public and our elected officials, which at all levels

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of government seems to be at an all - time

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low. Allowing only 10 delegations means that the ability of

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people to register depends entirely on their quick access to

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reliable technology and internet. Their ability to navigate the website

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or their ability to physically attend the clerk's office to

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fill out the delegation forms. I would argue that this

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is unfair and borders on discriminatory to people with out

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reliable technology and to folks who rely on transit or

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other forms of transportation to physically get to city hall,

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to register in time to be one of the first

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and only 10. I would suggest that perhaps as a

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compromise, the number of delegations be changed back to per

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item. And you could reduce it from 10 to between

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three and five, which is something that other municipalities have

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done and is quite in line with how other municipalities

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and Eastern Ontario have handled this issue. In conclusion, while

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it is council's prerogative to review the procedure bylaw each

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term, there is nothing binding saying that multiple changes must

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be made. That is at your discretion. And I implore

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you to use that discretion to consider what is best

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for the residents of Peterborough and our democratic process at

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large. Thank you. And I'm happy to take any questions.

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Thanks very much Diane. There may be some questions, questions

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real and counselor Baldwin. Councillor Real, please. Through the chair

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to Ms. Hale, Diane, thank you very much for being

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here. I know when you were the mayor of the

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city of Peterborough, you brought some changes to the procedural

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bylaw. And one of them was the amount of delegates

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that we could have to ten. Could you give me

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a little bit of a thought, your thought process? You

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spoke about here about the changes that are made and

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overall delegates for the complete meeting. Can you give me

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your thought process when you looked at that procedure bylaw

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and came to the number of 10? Sure. Uh, through,

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through the chair, Mr. Mayor, when I was the chair

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of Easter Ontario Mayor's caucus, there was a time where,

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um, we had unlimited delegation. Some of you will remember

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those days. And there were changes brought forward to, uh,

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to put some limitations around it, uh, there were, of

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course, nights where, uh, you know, the vast majority of

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the time was taken up with, with delegations that can

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get repetitive, fair enough. Um, and other municipalities, Eastern Ontario

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thought that, uh, the city of Peterborough having no limits

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was just like wild and unheard of. So, uh, I

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know that other municipalities, Kingston, Belleville Cornwall have some limits,

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um, although going from what we have now, 10 per

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item to 10 overall, regardless of what the agenda looks

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like to me is just going to be problematic down

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the road. Because as you know, some agendas are quite

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light. Some cycles, the agenda is super heavy and you

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have a ton of different issues that people want to

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speak to. Um, and then like I said, for people

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to be able to be one of the first 10

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to register, they need to be on the website or

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at the clerk's office or on the phone, like immediately

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to try to be one of those, those 10. Like

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to me, that's, uh, it does border on discriminatory for

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folks who don't have the access to be able to

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do that or who perhaps, um, aren't inclined to speak

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right away like some of us who don't mind coming

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here and, you know, stirring the pot a little bit,

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I guess. So I think that there, you know, is

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a way to do it. I think going by agenda

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is problematic. I think having limits per item makes more

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sense. And certainly there could be discussion about, uh, bringing

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that down from 10. There's, you know, few items. I

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think that you generally would have 10 or more. It

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does happen. But there are of course other ways for

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folks to express concerns to council. Um, so I hope

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that sort of answers a little bit of your question.

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Thank you very much for coming tonight. Thank you.

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Thanks, your worship is for you. Diana. It's good to

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see you. Um, I can recall four years ago, uh,

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you and I working on the procedure of bylaw trying

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to bring some changes in and you're exactly right. Uh,

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I can recall one meeting when, um, there were probably

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40 or 50 delegates talking about BXWT. And we didn't

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finish the delegation till almost 1130 at night. The council

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business completed at 3 a. m. There were a number

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of us, I think including yourself at the time said

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that, you know, councillor couldn't make great decisions after midnight.

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Um, and so that's, I think that was part and

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parcel for one of the things that we worked on

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to try and get that limit down to 10. Um,

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the clerk can probably, correct me if I'm wrong, but

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I wanted to ask your opinion, Diane. If, if the

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procedural bylaw restricts the number of delegates speaking to 10,

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I believe a counselor could move a motion to suspend

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the order, the rules of order, which would allow unlimited

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numbers of delegates to come on a particular issue. You've

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referenced that in your comments. So let's say it's perhaps,

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let's say it's the, um, knocking down the buildings at

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general electric, let's say. True. I can see that being

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a situation where we might want to have or there

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may be more than 10 people who want to come.

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I suspect one of the councillors could make a lotion

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to suspend the order of operate so we can, we

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can have more people delegate. Is that a compromise in

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your opinion as well? Um, I think that, you know,

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well, a good suggestion, I don't know how that would

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play out because again, that motion would have to be

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made at the general committee meeting. I believe, unless, you

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know, you're telling you're making the motion at council when

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people have already been told they can't delegate counsel any

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cause that's what they, so, you know, if there already

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is a cap on 10 delegates for the whole meeting

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to then suspend it, well, people have already been told.

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Cause I know that I've tried to, uh, registra as

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a delegate before when there was already 10 people on

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an item. And it was like, there's already 10 people

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on this item. So, um, I, I don't think that

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that would solve the issue. Um, uh, because again, people

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would have already thought, well, I'm not allowed to delegate.

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So why, you know, they might not, um, take the

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pains to come be here. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. And

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I guess the other, the other comment. I like to

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make Mr. Chair is that there are no limits on

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statutory meetings like planning or on budget. So, you know,

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if we had 35 or 40 people that wanted to

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come and talk about the budget, they are not limited

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there or on a planning issue. So it's just these

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other items. So I just wanted to kind of have

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that put out there. And Diana, it's great to see

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you again. Absolutely. You too. Yeah. And I know those,

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um, legislated, you know, the, by the province, obviously there,

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you know, you can't cap those delegates, uh, but I

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think again, for some of those other issues that fall

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just under the municipal mandate, it still is important to,

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um, make constituents feel like they're able to come and

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express concerns, you know, they can do it through email,

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but, you know, some people like to come up and

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actually speak face to face. So counselor Chica, please. Uh,

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thank you very much through your worship to Diane Tyrion.

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And thank you for being hell. Thank you for being

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here. And, um, it's, it's interesting to hear your remarks

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regarding different scenarios that one could come up with, uh,

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regarding, um, number of speakers, length of speaking, all of

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that. Um, from your experience as a counselor and as

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a mayor, um. Do you feel that it's a short

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window of time to make decisions such as what has

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come forth in this particular, particular procedural, uh, proposal. And

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secondly, in your experience, what is the best case scenario,

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uh, for implementing these ideas and proposals, um, should, should

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there be consultation with other counselors or the public? What

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would in your experience have been the best case scenario,

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uh, to come up with procedural bylaw changes. Thank you

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very much. Diane, please. Okay. Thank you very much to

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the chair. Um, the few in there. So I'll try

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to answer them, but, um, again, I know that there

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is sort of like a procedural bylaw subcommittee that meets,

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um, I think that having consultation, uh, beyond that, that

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group, uh, would have been helpful, whether or not that

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occurred, I'm not, I'm not privy to that. Um, I

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think again, that the, uh, the way that the council

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cycles are working where it's committee and then council immediately

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the next week without that week in between, um, has

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sort of changed, uh, the vibe a little bit for

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a long time. There was sort of that, uh, well,

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used to have planning committee committee the whole and then

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council, over the years, uh, as things evolved. Um, so

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I think that that sort of short window between general

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committee and council, uh, is something that, uh, is a

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bit tricky for people, uh, to navigate and certainly for

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all of you to read like the vast amounts of

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materials that come before you, each cycle, uh, never mind

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having to respond to all the constituent requests and all

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the other things that go on behind the scenes that

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folks, um, might not realize as part of being an

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elected official. There's so much more than just this meeting

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that happens on Monday nights. Um, so, you know, I

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think the comparison and looking at what other municipal councils

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have done, that's good, but that, you know, you don't

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necessarily need to, uh, take that as a blueprint. You

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can tailor it to our very unique community and the

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needs that we have here. Um, I forget if there

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was probably another question in there, but. Thank you. No,

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that answered. Okay. Anything further counselor Chico. Council work, please.

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I'm here, Leo. Thank you through you to Ms. Terry

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and Hale. Diane, thank you for coming. Um, I sort

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of agree with, I think a lot of focus has

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been put on, um, the personal device issue from this,

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but I believe that, um, the more concerning change being

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implemented is the limitation of public input. And I agree

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with your suggestions. And also in my own research agree

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with, um, what you said about how other municipalities are

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addressing, um, what this is trying to address. Um, but

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my question is back to the personal electronic communication devices.

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Um, I had a, I had a sort of idea

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on the fly last week as a compromise where it

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would enable staff, um, to look at how, how communication

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besides speaking as I am could be problematic. Um, like

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it would take that into heart and also address, um,

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our autonomy to be able to follow the rules. Um,

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so I just suggested to change the wording from not

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being possession of to not use, um, your personal device

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for these reasons. Do you think that is a more

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reasonable approach if staffs, um, if the outcome that staff

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wants is for us not to do city business, uh,

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or communicate around this table besides in this way. Damn,

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please. Sure. And through you, Mr. Mayor, uh, I think,

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yeah, it's, it's an interesting issue that, you know, the

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use of personal cell phones. I can understand, uh, folks

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feeling like there's, you know, business being done. Uh, the

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flip side is that a lot of folks in the

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general public feel like the business is being done sort

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of behind closed doors, which isn't out in the open

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anyways. And so there has to be sort of a

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balance between, uh, what the procedure bylaw says and, you

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know, what is happening, um, around, around the horseshoe. And

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to, you know, you can have a cell phone. I'm

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not sure how that, you know, is going to be

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policed, you know, like, are you going to, you know,

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because it sounds very punitive like I've heard folks in

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elementary school saying like, we don't, or high school saying

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we don't even have these kinds of rules for our

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students. So, you know, are you all going to get

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sent to the hallway if you have your cell phone?

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Like what, you know, that's, uh, that's going to be

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tricky to navigate. And I just don't, uh, I just

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don't see how that's the best use of, of council

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time, uh, I don't think that, uh, that, as you

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said, I think a couple of folks made the point

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last week that it's trying to solve a problem that

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hasn't really been pointed to actually being a problem. Um,

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if that were the case, then, then sure. Um, but

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I think, I think it's an overreagent. And again, my

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concern too is that the impact that it will have

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on, uh, folks who hear about it and are like

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considering wanting to get involved in municipal politics, particularly younger

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folks, um, to be told that, you know, they do

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all their emails and business on, on, on cell phones.

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And so certainly you don't want folks being distracted, you

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know, while they're in council chambers, but having been around

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this, that table for eight years, uh, I know folks

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use their cell phones around that table. Um, whether you

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voted forward or not, uh, some of you still do

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use those cell phones. And that's okay. Um, as long

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as we're paying attention paying attention and making the best

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decisions for the community. Um, thank you. And one final

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question, Mr. Chair. If you read as I'm reading the

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bylaw, um, the paragraph about our personal electronic communication device

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is actually pursuant to the bullet point above it, which,

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which really is in reference to how at this table

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we communicate and how that has to be done through

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the chair. Um, so as someone who's had experience at

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this horseshoe, is it absurd to you like it is

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to me. That these devices are electronic devices that have

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all of the same ways in which we can communicate

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to each other and the public embedded in them. They

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have access to the internet. They have access to any

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app that I have on my phone. They're only this

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computer's only personally accessible by me via password. Is it

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not kind of, uh, illogical to say that I can't

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have a phone in my pocket, but I'm allowed to

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maybe or maybe not communicate through this device that we

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rely on. Yeah. I mean, I again, I think as

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long as things are done through, through the chair and,

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you know, folks are, you know, abiding by all the

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other guidelines that this council abides by, uh, I just,

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I feel like it's sort of an unnecessary overreach. And

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again, something that just seems to be again, taking up

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time and energy when the other more pressing issues in

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the community. Yeah. Thank you very much. And it's nice

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to see you. Councillor Chica, please. Thank you through you.

353
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Thank you. Uh, something else just came to mind a

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question. So thank you, your worship. Um, I had a

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labor lawyer this week to me about, uh, the scope

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of a procedure bylaw that a procedure bylaw really is

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about the rules of debate. Uh, and that the purview

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of the, of the, of that around the cell phone,

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uh, possession, um, would have more, it seems implicit from

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the debate last week to do with, um, code of

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conduct. Um, and so, you know, why is this coming

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up in a procedure bylaw when that has to do

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with the rules of debate? Um, your thoughts or reflections

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on that. Do you have any? Thank you. Through the

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00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,600
chair, uh, I'm not a labor lawyer. So, uh, but

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I do think that, uh, indeed, if somebody was using

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their personal cell phone for what turned out to be,

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you know, an inappropriate ways or ways that we're not

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conducive to the business of council, certainly that would be

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something that in my mind would, would make more sense

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to be covered under the Code of Council, sorry, Code

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of Conduct, um, rather than the procedure bylaw, because, you

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know, in my experience, the procedure bylaw is to govern

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sort of like how these meetings are run. And so.

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Thank you. Any further questions. Thank you very much, Diane.

376
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Thank you very much. Our next delegate is Danielle Turpin.

377
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Mr. Pi, please. If we could have your name and

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00:24:49,731 --> 00:24:53,411
address for the public recorded at five minutes to make

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00:24:53,571 --> 00:24:57,651
a presentation. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. I'm Danielle Turpin 1288

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Bridal Drive. Please proceed. Thank you. Mayor and members of

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00:25:01,878 --> 00:25:04,438
council. I'm here tonight because I don't think this council

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00:25:04,518 --> 00:25:07,318
is being honest with the public or maybe even with

383
00:25:07,558 --> 00:25:10,678
itself about what this vote is really about and who

384
00:25:10,758 --> 00:25:13,100
is going to be most affected by it. This isn't

385
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just about how meetings run. It's about how democracy is

386
00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:19,740
exercised in this city who gets heard and whether public

387
00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:24,596
participation is something this council truly values and protects. I'm

388
00:25:24,676 --> 00:25:26,996
a founder of a worker - owned cooperative. I spend

389
00:25:27,076 --> 00:25:30,516
my life inside democratic decision - making. And one thing

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00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:32,916
I have learned over and over again is that when

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00:25:33,076 --> 00:25:36,996
governance gets quieter or gets smoother, it's rarely because things

392
00:25:37,076 --> 00:25:40,447
are working better. Usually it's because people have stopped believing

393
00:25:40,847 --> 00:25:44,166
it's worth speaking up. So a board with no friction

394
00:25:44,406 --> 00:25:48,512
is an unhealthy board. Fiction doesn't mean chaos. It means

395
00:25:48,512 --> 00:25:52,112
people are engaged. It means decisions are being tested instead

396
00:25:52,192 --> 00:25:55,872
of rushed. It means power isn't just flowing from one

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00:25:55,952 --> 00:25:59,752
direction without challenge. And when I read this report, what

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00:25:59,832 --> 00:26:04,072
stood out to me wasn't clarity, transparency or efficiency, it

399
00:26:03,992 --> 00:26:06,552
was how many of these changes are designed to reduce

400
00:26:06,712 --> 00:26:13,559
that friction. Limits on delegations, limits on counselors questions. Titan

401
00:26:13,879 --> 00:26:17,799
response times shoulder debate. More decisions that are bundled together.

402
00:26:18,813 --> 00:26:20,653
So we take all this together and all of that

403
00:26:20,893 --> 00:26:25,521
points in one direction. Less space for people, less time

404
00:26:25,681 --> 00:26:29,431
to think and less room for challenge. And this doesn't

405
00:26:29,671 --> 00:26:32,311
just affect the public. This affects every single one of

406
00:26:32,231 --> 00:26:35,991
you. And your ability to do your job properly and

407
00:26:36,071 --> 00:26:40,136
meaningfully as we elected you to do. If counselors are

408
00:26:40,136 --> 00:26:43,816
being rushed, if questions are capped, if answers are forced

409
00:26:43,976 --> 00:26:47,176
into these short timeframes, then decisions are being made without

410
00:26:47,496 --> 00:26:51,936
fully understanding their real impact. Complex issues don't resolve themselves

411
00:26:52,016 --> 00:26:56,256
with two questions and 90 second answers. Real impact surface

412
00:26:56,336 --> 00:27:01,449
through conversation and disagreement and with time. At the last

413
00:27:01,609 --> 00:27:04,729
meeting about this, several counselors actually tried to engage in

414
00:27:04,809 --> 00:27:09,689
this good faith discussion. They suggested reasonable solutions and amendments

415
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:12,409
to the cell phone band, for example, changing the word

416
00:27:12,729 --> 00:27:16,249
to focus on use rather than possession. They asked what

417
00:27:16,329 --> 00:27:19,449
problems were actually being solved with all of these changes.

418
00:27:19,529 --> 00:27:22,729
Those are basic governance questions, yet no one could really

419
00:27:22,729 --> 00:27:26,598
answer them clearly. And this should concern all of us

420
00:27:26,918 --> 00:27:30,438
because it shows that decisions here are moving forward without

421
00:27:31,158 --> 00:27:35,558
meaningful collaboration without reason and without explanation. And without the

422
00:27:35,558 --> 00:27:39,078
willingness to just slow down and listen. And it shows

423
00:27:39,318 --> 00:27:42,598
exactly why debate matters because the person with the last

424
00:27:42,758 --> 00:27:47,129
word isn't always right. We're seeing our democratic rights being

425
00:27:47,369 --> 00:27:51,129
played with here under the guise of process, through rules,

426
00:27:51,129 --> 00:27:56,222
through changing or through decisions framed as reasonable. And well

427
00:27:56,302 --> 00:27:59,982
power is becoming more centralized and democratic spaces are getting

428
00:28:00,382 --> 00:28:04,635
smaller and less accessible. That erosion doesn't start in a

429
00:28:04,715 --> 00:28:08,398
vacuum. It starts with people like you. In rooms exactly

430
00:28:08,398 --> 00:28:12,558
like this with decisions exactly like this. And it starts

431
00:28:12,558 --> 00:28:15,678
with leaders who believe that efficiency is more important than

432
00:28:15,918 --> 00:28:20,752
democracy. If these procedural changes were truly small and technical

433
00:28:21,472 --> 00:28:24,032
as this report was implying, they wouldn't be worth talking

434
00:28:24,192 --> 00:28:28,309
about publicly. Yet Councillor Parnell went on CBC's Ontario morning

435
00:28:28,309 --> 00:28:31,178
to talk about them. She was able to have her

436
00:28:31,338 --> 00:28:35,658
voice heard and her position heard unchecked and unchallenged. Yet

437
00:28:36,218 --> 00:28:39,338
Councilor Parnell will likely vote in favor of minimizing all

438
00:28:39,418 --> 00:28:42,273
of our voices tonight. So it's hard to accept the

439
00:28:42,353 --> 00:28:45,767
idea that this is just procedural. While at the same

440
00:28:45,767 --> 00:28:49,687
time debate with the people who actually live with the

441
00:28:49,687 --> 00:28:53,426
consequences of these votes are going to be restricted. As

442
00:28:53,586 --> 00:28:55,826
elected officials, you don't get to make decisions that affect

443
00:28:55,906 --> 00:29:00,866
people's housing services, neighborhoods and dailies lives, and then treat

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00:29:01,106 --> 00:29:05,085
public input is something just to manage. We aren't an

445
00:29:05,085 --> 00:29:10,204
inconvenience. We are actually the reason this room exists. Tonight's

446
00:29:10,204 --> 00:29:13,097
vote is an about procedure. It's a values test for

447
00:29:13,257 --> 00:29:16,352
each and every one of you. If residents start to

448
00:29:16,512 --> 00:29:20,432
feel that meaningful input is always rushed, capped or quietly

449
00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:23,952
sidelined, we don't just get frustrated. We're going to push

450
00:29:24,112 --> 00:29:28,403
back. And once people start believing this room in here

451
00:29:28,483 --> 00:29:32,483
belongs to them, trust slowly doesn't erode. It breaks completely.

452
00:29:33,882 --> 00:29:36,682
So yes, how you vote tonight will tell us exactly

453
00:29:37,002 --> 00:29:40,522
how you value democracy and how you value us as

454
00:29:40,762 --> 00:29:44,302
the real stakeholders and all of these decisions. And to

455
00:29:44,302 --> 00:29:47,662
those of you who are running again, please know this.

456
00:29:47,582 --> 00:29:50,782
If people feel shut out of democracy inside these chambers,

457
00:29:50,862 --> 00:29:53,359
they're going to find another way in. And that way

458
00:29:53,439 --> 00:29:55,279
is going to be at the ballot box in October.

459
00:29:56,017 --> 00:29:58,337
So please vote tonight as if you're a political career

460
00:29:58,497 --> 00:30:02,201
depends on it because it does. Thank you. Sturman, thank

461
00:30:02,201 --> 00:30:04,521
you very much for your presentation. Uh, there could be

462
00:30:04,521 --> 00:30:11,857
some questions. Questions. Councillor, please. Through the chair to Ms.

463
00:30:11,937 --> 00:30:15,441
Turpin Danielle. Thank you very much for being here. And

464
00:30:15,521 --> 00:30:18,881
I, I believe you poverty answered my question at the

465
00:30:18,961 --> 00:30:26,076
end. Um, if this procedural bylaw change goes through. Um,

466
00:30:26,956 --> 00:30:32,730
and your ability to come and present at council. What

467
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:38,573
is your last resort. Being heard in the community. It's

468
00:30:38,813 --> 00:30:42,179
going to be media. It's going to be social media.

469
00:30:42,099 --> 00:30:44,819
It's going to be media or it'll be depending on

470
00:30:44,899 --> 00:30:46,819
what the topic is that our voice is going to

471
00:30:46,899 --> 00:30:50,899
be, uh, shut out from. It'll be rallies on front

472
00:30:51,139 --> 00:30:54,179
in, you know, in city hall. There's other recourses. I

473
00:30:54,179 --> 00:30:56,419
just don't understand why the people who are really being

474
00:30:56,819 --> 00:30:59,379
affected by this because it's all of us here do

475
00:30:59,379 --> 00:31:02,579
not have a right to be able to be heard

476
00:31:02,979 --> 00:31:05,619
on every single agenda item that is going to be

477
00:31:06,019 --> 00:31:10,982
discussed. These aren't your items. These aren't your decisions solely.

478
00:31:10,902 --> 00:31:13,862
They have to be made in partnership with the stakeholders

479
00:31:13,942 --> 00:31:17,542
here. And that's us, right? So we are in a

480
00:31:17,542 --> 00:31:20,582
position right now where I'm feeling the political climate everywhere

481
00:31:22,022 --> 00:31:23,942
is a little bit crazy. And I think we all

482
00:31:24,182 --> 00:31:30,182
can appreciate that. People are feeling that our voices every,

483
00:31:30,102 --> 00:31:31,862
you know, everywhere we look, we are being shut out

484
00:31:32,342 --> 00:31:35,222
from decisions that are affecting our lives. This is such

485
00:31:35,462 --> 00:31:39,222
a simple decision for you guys, really. And especially because

486
00:31:39,782 --> 00:31:42,102
it's only a few months before this next election, I

487
00:31:42,182 --> 00:31:44,742
don't understand why any of you would risk this, to

488
00:31:44,742 --> 00:31:48,102
be honest. There's no real reason for it. No one

489
00:31:48,182 --> 00:31:51,302
could give a proper explanation on why any of these

490
00:31:51,462 --> 00:31:54,982
decisions actually had to be made right now. And then

491
00:31:56,822 --> 00:32:00,262
make any of these decisions. So I implore you all

492
00:32:00,342 --> 00:32:03,302
to really just take a step back, really think about

493
00:32:03,382 --> 00:32:06,262
this and think about the message that each and every

494
00:32:06,342 --> 00:32:10,582
one of you is sending about what you value. Because

495
00:32:10,582 --> 00:32:16,234
that's what we're going to take away tonight. Cause we

496
00:32:16,314 --> 00:32:18,874
have it. Thank you. Another question. Okay. Any other counselor

497
00:32:19,034 --> 00:32:24,326
burnt, please. Um, thank you Marilyl. Mr. Pin, thank you

498
00:32:24,246 --> 00:32:27,926
so much for coming. Um, my personal belief in terms

499
00:32:27,926 --> 00:32:31,206
of what makes a good leader is someone that understands,

500
00:32:31,126 --> 00:32:35,286
um, uh, and listens to the people that have opposing

501
00:32:35,286 --> 00:32:37,686
views. And so that's why it was important for me

502
00:32:37,926 --> 00:32:40,326
last week to try to, even though personally I felt

503
00:32:40,486 --> 00:32:43,446
differently to try to find some sort of middle ground

504
00:32:43,526 --> 00:32:47,366
between what was being proposed. Um, versus how I feel.

505
00:32:47,286 --> 00:32:49,526
And, you know, I do understand where, where some of

506
00:32:49,526 --> 00:32:53,286
these changes are coming from. So my question to you

507
00:32:53,286 --> 00:32:57,926
through the chair is around, um, Miss Terry and Hale's

508
00:32:58,246 --> 00:33:00,566
suggestion, which I think is a good example of that

509
00:33:00,966 --> 00:33:06,726
compromise. And Diane suggested, um, that maybe we could limit,

510
00:33:06,646 --> 00:33:09,766
um, because she was, she was bang on some nights

511
00:33:09,846 --> 00:33:12,246
our agendas are very, very light and other nights we

512
00:33:12,246 --> 00:33:15,446
have a heavy agendas with a multitude of different, um,

513
00:33:16,566 --> 00:33:19,526
issues that are important to different groups of people. So,

514
00:33:19,446 --> 00:33:21,846
um, Diane suggestion was a great one. I hope, I

515
00:33:22,006 --> 00:33:24,086
hope we talk more about it, but it was to

516
00:33:24,086 --> 00:33:27,286
limit the amount of delegates per agenda item between, I

517
00:33:27,286 --> 00:33:29,606
think she said between three and five. Would that be

518
00:33:29,686 --> 00:33:34,596
a sort of compromise that, um. That you could handle,

519
00:33:34,516 --> 00:33:36,996
please? Yeah. Thank you. Through you. Um, I think, uh,

520
00:33:37,236 --> 00:33:39,396
that's a really important compromise. And I think that word

521
00:33:39,556 --> 00:33:42,596
is really important compromise. It has to be about different

522
00:33:42,676 --> 00:33:45,396
perspectives and coming together and finding a solution that works

523
00:33:45,476 --> 00:33:48,516
for everyone. I firmly believe that in most times there

524
00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:51,556
are solutions that work for everyone if time is put

525
00:33:51,556 --> 00:33:55,796
into this. I know for a fact that if this

526
00:33:56,196 --> 00:33:58,756
law was or this bylaw was passed and voted for

527
00:33:59,476 --> 00:34:02,116
prior to this meeting, there's four of us right now

528
00:34:02,356 --> 00:34:05,476
who are speaking on this very important agenda item. So

529
00:34:05,636 --> 00:34:07,316
you guys look around and tell me who you don't

530
00:34:07,476 --> 00:34:09,636
want to speak or who shouldn't have a right to

531
00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,676
speak because that's exactly what's going to happen every single

532
00:34:12,836 --> 00:34:15,716
time. So yeah, we have to have a limit. And

533
00:34:15,716 --> 00:34:17,796
if we go over and we have a really long

534
00:34:18,036 --> 00:34:21,076
agenda item, I think counselor Baldwin, you had mentioned that,

535
00:34:21,156 --> 00:34:22,516
that some have gone into like one in the morning

536
00:34:22,756 --> 00:34:25,236
or whatever. You guys know what your agendas are going

537
00:34:25,236 --> 00:34:27,076
to look like. Is there any reason why you can't

538
00:34:27,236 --> 00:34:30,996
spread that out over two days? Or, you know, or

539
00:34:31,076 --> 00:34:33,156
shorten the agenda down and break it down. That's on

540
00:34:33,236 --> 00:34:35,796
you guys. That's not on the public's responsibility to manage

541
00:34:35,876 --> 00:34:38,836
that. Right. Um, so I do think it's important that

542
00:34:38,996 --> 00:34:42,596
we look at that compromise. I would fully support that

543
00:34:42,836 --> 00:34:45,956
at five people per agenda item. Um, Mr. Chair, thank

544
00:34:46,116 --> 00:34:49,396
Danielle, thank you so much. Um, it is incorrect though.

545
00:34:49,396 --> 00:34:52,676
We do not absolutely do not know what our agendas

546
00:34:52,676 --> 00:34:55,316
are going to look like. We receive our agendas the

547
00:34:55,316 --> 00:34:57,556
day before the public does. And we are just, um,

548
00:34:58,036 --> 00:35:00,196
we are as in the dark as the public is

549
00:35:00,276 --> 00:35:01,636
in terms of what is going to be on that

550
00:35:01,876 --> 00:35:05,316
agenda. Who creates the Jedpa staff. Okay. So they would

551
00:35:05,316 --> 00:35:07,076
be able to maybe manage that a bit better than.

552
00:35:08,033 --> 00:35:13,635
Yeah through the chair possibly. Yeah. That'd be my suggestion.

553
00:35:14,484 --> 00:35:18,026
Anything further counselor Burke. Thank you Mr. Chairman Chica, please.

554
00:35:19,834 --> 00:35:23,034
Thank you very much. So you, your worship to Ms.

555
00:35:23,114 --> 00:35:26,794
Turpin. Thank you for coming. And, um, for your articulate

556
00:35:26,874 --> 00:35:31,834
presentation, uh, there's a great deal of thought analysis. You

557
00:35:31,914 --> 00:35:34,154
provided on each of the points you raised. And it's

558
00:35:34,154 --> 00:35:38,794
much appreciated. Thank you for reminding us who this house

559
00:35:38,794 --> 00:35:42,714
belongs to. And, and who it is that have elected

560
00:35:42,794 --> 00:35:47,274
us, and the importance of voice. Um, the issue of

561
00:35:47,754 --> 00:35:52,314
length seems to be the impetus behind reducing the, the

562
00:35:52,394 --> 00:35:56,874
number of speakers in delegations. And given that, and you've

563
00:35:57,194 --> 00:36:01,514
already mentioned and endorse the idea that, uh, counselor Burke

564
00:36:02,554 --> 00:36:05,274
and Ms. Tierra Hale had mentioned earlier, is there anything

565
00:36:05,514 --> 00:36:08,154
else that you can think of, you know, when we're

566
00:36:08,714 --> 00:36:11,514
reaching one o'clock in the morning on a long agenda

567
00:36:11,754 --> 00:36:16,154
with many delegations, um, what, what do you think as

568
00:36:16,154 --> 00:36:20,874
a thoughtful politico that you are might be a helpful,

569
00:36:20,794 --> 00:36:24,794
um, approach or a different approach to address that particular

570
00:36:25,194 --> 00:36:28,474
issue so that we're not fatigued so that length isn't

571
00:36:28,634 --> 00:36:31,114
the big issue. Thank you very much, your worship. Mr.

572
00:36:31,354 --> 00:36:33,754
Pippen. Thank you for you. Um, I would say, I

573
00:36:33,754 --> 00:36:36,714
guess I would be speaking to the city staff who

574
00:36:36,794 --> 00:36:39,274
are making these agendas and seeing if they can maybe

575
00:36:39,514 --> 00:36:41,994
make them a little bit more concise, separate them into

576
00:36:42,154 --> 00:36:45,034
different days if possible. If the one that's going to

577
00:36:45,114 --> 00:36:49,354
be more fulsome, um, I also believe that staff and

578
00:36:49,514 --> 00:36:52,074
council are very aware of some of these contentious items

579
00:36:52,394 --> 00:36:54,714
where you may get some, you know, a lot of

580
00:36:54,714 --> 00:36:57,994
delegates coming to, um, and so maybe if the little

581
00:36:58,074 --> 00:37:03,274
bit of forethought into that and planning ahead of time,

582
00:37:03,194 --> 00:37:05,994
then folks might not be here until one of the

583
00:37:05,994 --> 00:37:09,274
morning, but I'm going to, uh, just add one more

584
00:37:09,354 --> 00:37:14,060
thing to that because. Democracy is not supposed to be

585
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:19,587
efficient. Democracy isn't supposed to be clean and neat. It's

586
00:37:19,747 --> 00:37:21,747
supposed to be messy. And it's supposed to be about

587
00:37:22,067 --> 00:37:26,867
listening. And it's supposed to be about multiple personalities. Most

588
00:37:26,867 --> 00:37:29,587
importantly through the people who are the stakeholders of every

589
00:37:29,587 --> 00:37:34,896
single decision you make. So yep. When you're going to

590
00:37:34,896 --> 00:37:37,136
have to listen to us. And that's what you're elected

591
00:37:37,216 --> 00:37:40,896
for. So I understand that you guys have a job

592
00:37:41,136 --> 00:37:43,056
and you have lives and you have all of that.

593
00:37:42,976 --> 00:37:46,896
And I'm pretty sure one AM meetings don't go and

594
00:37:47,056 --> 00:37:49,433
don't happen all the time. But I need to know

595
00:37:49,433 --> 00:37:53,353
that our city council who's making really important decisions about

596
00:37:53,833 --> 00:37:57,833
our daily lives are doing that with the best intentions,

597
00:37:57,753 --> 00:38:00,153
not because they want to get in and out very

598
00:38:00,233 --> 00:38:03,673
quickly. Right. And that's what I'm seeing here with this.

599
00:38:03,593 --> 00:38:07,913
So I'm hoping that tonight you guys will vote better.

600
00:38:07,833 --> 00:38:11,273
Um, and realize that the people who really, really matter

601
00:38:11,833 --> 00:38:14,873
in these decisions are the ones that the decisions affect.

602
00:38:14,793 --> 00:38:18,883
And that's, that's us. Here. Thank you. Councillor Baldwin, please.

603
00:38:22,136 --> 00:38:24,216
And thanks, uh, Mr. Chair Danielle. It's good to see

604
00:38:24,216 --> 00:38:28,952
you again. You too. Um. One of the things that's

605
00:38:28,952 --> 00:38:31,752
been done at council, um, over the last 12 years

606
00:38:32,152 --> 00:38:34,232
when I've had the privilege of sitting here is that

607
00:38:35,112 --> 00:38:38,632
one person or a couple of people will take a

608
00:38:38,792 --> 00:38:41,863
variety of different inputs from, uh, from a community. And

609
00:38:42,023 --> 00:38:46,434
they'll be the speaker. And they'll come. I can recall,

610
00:38:46,354 --> 00:38:50,034
let's just use one person in average, for example. He

611
00:38:50,034 --> 00:38:52,594
would come and he would express or give a presentation

612
00:38:53,394 --> 00:38:59,186
for councils consideration on behalf of a certain organization. Would

613
00:38:59,186 --> 00:39:01,586
you concur with that as an option of presenting information

614
00:39:02,146 --> 00:39:04,786
to counselor? For sure. If it's for a group of

615
00:39:04,866 --> 00:39:08,946
people or a certain organization, um, but again, I'm going

616
00:39:08,866 --> 00:39:11,586
to put the onus back on council in city staff

617
00:39:12,146 --> 00:39:14,866
because we're not here to accommodate you to make your

618
00:39:15,026 --> 00:39:17,186
job easier. You guys are here to be listening to

619
00:39:17,346 --> 00:39:19,426
us and to really get that input from us. So

620
00:39:19,986 --> 00:39:23,266
absolutely I would try to prioritize and maybe encourage public

621
00:39:24,306 --> 00:39:26,466
to, if you're a part of an organization or a

622
00:39:26,466 --> 00:39:29,746
group of people, um, to have that one person to

623
00:39:29,826 --> 00:39:33,186
speak. That makes perfect sense. But, um, that's not something

624
00:39:33,346 --> 00:39:37,346
that we should be forced to organize, you know, for

625
00:39:37,426 --> 00:39:43,779
ourselves. But I would definitely encourage it. Second. Share. Danielle,

626
00:39:43,699 --> 00:39:45,619
I know each of the counselors works a little bit

627
00:39:45,699 --> 00:39:51,939
differently. Certainly, uh, counselor reality are quite often dealing with

628
00:39:52,099 --> 00:39:55,299
individuals, uh, one - on - one or one on

629
00:39:55,379 --> 00:39:59,010
three or one on two. At a coffee shop. We

630
00:39:59,090 --> 00:40:01,410
do some of our best work. I would say Keith

631
00:40:02,130 --> 00:40:05,268
on the grassroots level. Um, I can count on my

632
00:40:05,268 --> 00:40:07,348
hand this year, the number of people I've conversed with

633
00:40:08,388 --> 00:40:11,245
who've actually come to council, made it to delegation. Um,

634
00:40:11,405 --> 00:40:13,165
but this means it's right or wrong. That's just the

635
00:40:13,245 --> 00:40:16,565
reality of it. So I'm assuming you do reach out

636
00:40:16,565 --> 00:40:19,365
to counselors in a different way as opposed to coming

637
00:40:19,445 --> 00:40:23,045
to council after we council chambers. Uh, yeah, I am

638
00:40:23,205 --> 00:40:26,245
very engaged with council. Um, I would like to believe

639
00:40:26,405 --> 00:40:28,725
that some would be engaged with me. Sadly, I don't

640
00:40:28,805 --> 00:40:32,245
get the responses via email. As I should through my

641
00:40:32,245 --> 00:40:35,525
own counselors, um, so yes, but I do. And I

642
00:40:35,685 --> 00:40:37,685
hear what you're saying. So maybe there could be a

643
00:40:37,685 --> 00:40:39,925
way to have some sort of campaign to really talk

644
00:40:40,405 --> 00:40:43,605
and highlight, um, different ways to communicate with your counselors

645
00:40:44,565 --> 00:40:46,805
and encourage that because one to one is definitely the

646
00:40:46,805 --> 00:40:49,125
best way I think. Right. And then they don't have

647
00:40:49,125 --> 00:40:51,765
to come and speak because you guys are already answering

648
00:40:51,845 --> 00:40:54,565
that. Like the one person who had today, right? Her

649
00:40:54,645 --> 00:40:59,605
issue was already solved. That's perfect, um, but, uh, yeah.

650
00:40:59,525 --> 00:41:02,165
And unless we can rely on getting that really decent

651
00:41:02,565 --> 00:41:05,765
response back from the city councillors, um, this might be

652
00:41:06,325 --> 00:41:10,405
sometimes people's last resort. We also don't know how every

653
00:41:10,405 --> 00:41:14,485
council learner communicates with others. Right. So, and even though

654
00:41:14,965 --> 00:41:18,485
I speak to my counselors regularly and many others, um,

655
00:41:19,365 --> 00:41:21,845
I don't know if they're communicating my views to everyone

656
00:41:21,925 --> 00:41:25,285
else and their vote also is important and their vote

657
00:41:25,365 --> 00:41:28,325
affects me as well. So I think that there needs

658
00:41:28,405 --> 00:41:31,685
to be multiple avenues for people to express their concerns.

659
00:41:32,809 --> 00:41:34,969
Lastly, uh, your worship, one of the reasons I do

660
00:41:35,209 --> 00:41:39,769
communicate with, um, my constituents and members across the city,

661
00:41:39,689 --> 00:41:42,329
um, we are city councils. This is not war counselors

662
00:41:43,289 --> 00:41:45,529
quite often when you send back an email response. You

663
00:41:45,609 --> 00:41:47,849
lose proprietary over that. You don't know where it goes

664
00:41:48,089 --> 00:41:50,705
to whom it goes. So quite often I don't teeth

665
00:41:50,785 --> 00:41:53,185
and I work this out a lot. We'll send back

666
00:41:53,985 --> 00:41:56,385
a response. Thank you very much for your, uh, for

667
00:41:56,465 --> 00:42:00,695
your correspondence. Would be happy to converse and meet and

668
00:42:00,775 --> 00:42:03,895
talk about this because I don't know, um, how you

669
00:42:04,215 --> 00:42:08,714
infer response from me, for example. And if I'm talking

670
00:42:08,874 --> 00:42:12,794
to someone, uh, just like you and I are now,

671
00:42:12,714 --> 00:42:15,754
uh, across the desk. I think you've got a much

672
00:42:15,834 --> 00:42:20,772
better opportunity to make a conversation that's authentic. And it's

673
00:42:20,852 --> 00:42:24,532
between two or three people. It doesn't go wildfire across

674
00:42:24,612 --> 00:42:26,852
the city. I have no idea where it goes and

675
00:42:27,652 --> 00:42:31,400
what's that and what's inferred. So my method of dealing

676
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,520
with people, um, is to converse absolutely by email, but

677
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,760
let's have a conversation list sit down and have a

678
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,880
conversation one - on - one or a small group.

679
00:42:42,738 --> 00:42:45,458
I. e. coffee with the counselor. I have two or

680
00:42:45,458 --> 00:42:47,966
three becomes sit down with a counselor. And have a

681
00:42:47,966 --> 00:42:50,843
good dialogue and discussion. You get a lot of good

682
00:42:50,923 --> 00:42:53,403
things done that way. Sure. Can I, can I answer

683
00:42:53,803 --> 00:42:55,323
or not? I don't, I know it wasn't really a

684
00:42:55,403 --> 00:42:58,283
question for you. Thank you. Um, yeah, and I guess

685
00:42:58,683 --> 00:43:01,243
maybe my, my response to that. And I think what

686
00:43:01,323 --> 00:43:03,483
I'm hearing here is excellent. That's exactly what I think

687
00:43:03,563 --> 00:43:06,877
we would want. Right. If you were my counselor and

688
00:43:06,957 --> 00:43:08,797
I reached out to you and you did exactly what

689
00:43:08,877 --> 00:43:10,957
you said and then you asked, you know, Hey, would

690
00:43:10,957 --> 00:43:14,397
you like to meet? And I would if I could.

691
00:43:14,317 --> 00:43:16,717
What do you do with that information? Do you bring

692
00:43:16,797 --> 00:43:19,517
it back to council? Do you speak to my issue

693
00:43:20,317 --> 00:43:23,917
at council? So everyone else gets to hear my concerns.

694
00:43:23,837 --> 00:43:27,277
Because if you don't, then the onus again is on

695
00:43:27,357 --> 00:43:30,157
the constituents to reach out to every single one of

696
00:43:30,077 --> 00:43:33,117
you guys sit down and have a coffee because you

697
00:43:33,037 --> 00:43:36,317
don't want to respond by email. And I understand why,

698
00:43:36,237 --> 00:43:38,157
um, it's not, it doesn't work as well. You want

699
00:43:38,077 --> 00:43:41,597
to have these personal conversations. So in order to make

700
00:43:41,677 --> 00:43:44,317
sure that my voice is being heard by every single

701
00:43:44,637 --> 00:43:47,677
council person here, the expectation would be that I set

702
00:43:47,757 --> 00:43:51,597
up meetings with every single person because I'm not too

703
00:43:51,597 --> 00:43:53,517
sure what you do with that at, at, at that

704
00:43:53,437 --> 00:43:56,637
time. So me, I don't know. Maybe you can clarify.

705
00:43:56,797 --> 00:43:59,437
Do you say I had a meeting with somebody and

706
00:43:59,437 --> 00:44:00,877
these were some of the concerns. And I want all

707
00:44:00,877 --> 00:44:04,077
of these council members to know that, um, cause I

708
00:44:03,997 --> 00:44:09,577
don't hear that often here, but. Danielle, that would, that

709
00:44:09,577 --> 00:44:12,665
would be a conversation between you and I. Could I

710
00:44:12,665 --> 00:44:16,265
share some of our conversations with my counselor colleagues. Um,

711
00:44:16,265 --> 00:44:19,625
I wouldn't just automatically do that without getting your permission.

712
00:44:20,346 --> 00:44:22,186
Okay. Because it may seem maybe some things that you

713
00:44:22,186 --> 00:44:24,026
and I are discussing on a personal level that you

714
00:44:23,946 --> 00:44:26,966
don't want to go anywhere any further. But certainly if

715
00:44:27,126 --> 00:44:30,166
you're saying, Gary, would you please share these conversations with

716
00:44:30,246 --> 00:44:34,146
your counselor colleague or the mayor or anybody else. I

717
00:44:34,146 --> 00:44:36,485
would have no problem doing that. So I do have

718
00:44:36,645 --> 00:44:40,405
one response through you, Mayor. So I, I'm hearing what

719
00:44:40,645 --> 00:44:43,445
you're saying and I'm not opposed to any type of

720
00:44:43,605 --> 00:44:47,125
engagement with constituents. That's what has to happen. But I'm

721
00:44:47,205 --> 00:44:52,405
also hearing that to make things easier for counselors, um,

722
00:44:52,565 --> 00:44:56,405
that they onus is on the constituents to organize themselves

723
00:44:56,565 --> 00:44:59,685
to be able to reach out maybe several times, right

724
00:44:59,845 --> 00:45:02,885
through email or through a coffee or whatever. So that

725
00:45:02,965 --> 00:45:07,205
brings back accessibility issues, childcare issues. It brings up when

726
00:45:07,285 --> 00:45:10,725
we can work, when we count work. They're important and

727
00:45:10,885 --> 00:45:14,474
they are absolutely part of that process. But they can't

728
00:45:14,554 --> 00:45:17,754
be the only or the most private, like the priortized

729
00:45:17,834 --> 00:45:20,634
one. Right. So I think it's important that we really,

730
00:45:20,794 --> 00:45:26,474
really focus on different avenues accessible avenues for everybody. And

731
00:45:26,874 --> 00:45:31,778
most importantly and lastly, we cannot limit. From 10 to

732
00:45:32,498 --> 00:45:35,298
one per item. The amount of people who have to

733
00:45:35,298 --> 00:45:37,458
speak. I can promise you we are going to have

734
00:45:37,538 --> 00:45:40,578
problems. Not we, not us, but it's going to be

735
00:45:40,498 --> 00:45:42,258
a problem. People are not going to be happy with

736
00:45:42,338 --> 00:45:43,938
that. We're not going to have a problem. We are,

737
00:45:43,938 --> 00:45:48,029
we've had problems. I know. Where is. Thanks. Yeah. It

738
00:45:47,949 --> 00:45:52,749
was my son's principal. So yeah, any further questions for

739
00:45:52,829 --> 00:45:58,106
disturbance. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next Mr. Heyllman,

740
00:45:58,026 --> 00:46:01,601
please. Stay hell, but if we could have your name

741
00:46:01,681 --> 00:46:03,990
address. For the public record, you have five minutes to

742
00:46:04,070 --> 00:46:06,870
make a presentation. Sure thing. Thank you. Awesome. My name

743
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:09,510
is Rob Hellman. My address is 500 Murray Street in

744
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:11,990
Peterborough. Please proceed, sir. Great. Thank you. So I'm here

745
00:46:12,070 --> 00:46:14,470
to expect my concerns about the bylaw. Most importantly about

746
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:18,310
the changes to the delegations and to the debate, the

747
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:20,630
time of debate for counselors. But first I want to

748
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:23,030
make a very brief comment about the ban on personal

749
00:46:23,110 --> 00:46:26,230
electronic devices. It is nonsensical on its face for precisely

750
00:46:26,310 --> 00:46:28,710
the reason the counselor Park mentioned. You have computers on

751
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:33,270
your desks. Um, there may be our concerns about communication

752
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:35,910
and information outside of the public record and the rules

753
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:39,590
of debate. But banning personal devices does not resolve it.

754
00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:42,390
In this term, we've seen counselors make intimations about others

755
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:45,270
that there have been information or even specific texts of

756
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:48,550
motions and things brought forward that were conducted by unseen

757
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:51,910
actors. To my knowledge, this has always been baseless. There

758
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:54,870
is evidently distrust and disrespect amongst this council, but that

759
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:58,029
does not need to be enshrined in a bylaw. The

760
00:46:58,189 --> 00:47:02,589
limits on delegations, uh, are inappropriate and non - democratic.

761
00:47:02,509 --> 00:47:04,029
In the time that I've been involved in political life

762
00:47:04,189 --> 00:47:07,389
computer, bore, I've seen the scope of public demigrations being

763
00:47:07,469 --> 00:47:10,829
progressively weakened over, over 20 years. The reduction in speaking

764
00:47:10,829 --> 00:47:12,669
time, the institution of a cap on the number of

765
00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:14,989
delegates. The restriction that you can only speak to one

766
00:47:14,989 --> 00:47:19,069
agenda item, the removal of unregistered delegates. Unreal delegations. We

767
00:47:19,149 --> 00:47:21,389
can debate the wisdom of those changes, but the current

768
00:47:21,629 --> 00:47:26,302
change, I think, goes far much too far. The staff

769
00:47:26,382 --> 00:47:28,782
report names a number of municipalities that were taffed for

770
00:47:28,782 --> 00:47:32,142
best practices. Um, as my friend David King noted in

771
00:47:32,222 --> 00:47:35,422
Article Hero for Arthur, none of those municipalities have a

772
00:47:35,422 --> 00:47:37,822
restriction on delegations as restrictive as the one proposed today.

773
00:47:39,363 --> 00:47:43,043
Moreover, many provide greater opportunities for participation by delegates, allowing

774
00:47:43,203 --> 00:47:45,443
more time the opportunity to speak to more than one

775
00:47:45,523 --> 00:47:48,083
item or the opportunity for delegates themselves to ask questions.

776
00:47:50,183 --> 00:47:53,303
I've similar concerns about the reduction in speaking time from

777
00:47:54,023 --> 00:47:56,583
counselors in meetings. This would reduce the time to speak

778
00:47:56,663 --> 00:47:58,903
to a total of 10 minutes per counselor per item

779
00:47:58,983 --> 00:48:02,395
in general committee. And just six minutes in council. To

780
00:48:02,475 --> 00:48:04,555
be honest, I'm bewildered as to what makes that necessary.

781
00:48:04,475 --> 00:48:06,715
I can see the reasoning in a municipality with a

782
00:48:06,715 --> 00:48:09,195
large council such as Toronto with 26 members of council

783
00:48:09,355 --> 00:48:12,155
and a restriction of five minutes per counselor per agenda

784
00:48:12,235 --> 00:48:15,035
item or an auto always 25. But I don't see

785
00:48:15,195 --> 00:48:18,913
the reason in a council of 11. Both of these

786
00:48:19,073 --> 00:48:22,513
changes directly serve to undermine the purpose that council is

787
00:48:22,513 --> 00:48:26,416
here to serve. I've heard many people say publicly and

788
00:48:26,496 --> 00:48:28,256
privately throughout this term of counsel that it seems like

789
00:48:28,496 --> 00:48:31,456
decisions are made behind closed doors that by the time

790
00:48:31,696 --> 00:48:35,056
reports come to cancel, uh, and to these meetings, votes

791
00:48:35,216 --> 00:48:38,016
are already decided and that delegations and debate of council

792
00:48:38,176 --> 00:48:40,976
itself is a little more than pageantry. Perhaps I'm a

793
00:48:41,056 --> 00:48:43,961
fool, but I'm not convinced of that. But the changes

794
00:48:44,041 --> 00:48:46,281
of this bylaw do point to a future without certainly

795
00:48:46,281 --> 00:48:49,901
could be the case if it is not already. I

796
00:48:49,901 --> 00:48:52,461
can't make the case plainly enough that public comment and

797
00:48:52,541 --> 00:48:54,941
debate by elected officials are not just an important part

798
00:48:55,021 --> 00:49:00,113
of democracy. They are democracy itself. And yet general committee

799
00:49:00,113 --> 00:49:02,273
has already endorsed a plan to restrict them in the

800
00:49:02,273 --> 00:49:04,913
name of efficiency. As we've heard from other delegates this

801
00:49:04,913 --> 00:49:07,553
evening, there is attention between efficiency and the work of

802
00:49:07,633 --> 00:49:10,755
governance. Ensuring that voices are heard and that hard decisions

803
00:49:10,915 --> 00:49:14,515
are given consideration and debate on the record and in

804
00:49:14,595 --> 00:49:17,315
public is time consuming. It can be painstaking. It can

805
00:49:17,315 --> 00:49:20,595
be profoundly unexciting. It is also the work that you

806
00:49:20,675 --> 00:49:24,050
are elected to do. If efficiency means doing that work

807
00:49:24,290 --> 00:49:27,410
less than we should welcome and celebrate our inefficiency together.

808
00:49:28,378 --> 00:49:31,178
Once again, there is evidently distrust and disrespect amongst this

809
00:49:31,498 --> 00:49:33,818
council, but that distress does not need to be enshrined

810
00:49:33,818 --> 00:49:37,452
in a bylaw. I won't labor the point by talking

811
00:49:37,532 --> 00:49:39,452
about the bigger issues here, but the importance of fighting

812
00:49:39,692 --> 00:49:41,932
for democracy right here in a world where fascism is

813
00:49:42,012 --> 00:49:45,052
climbing back faster and faster every day. But if hearing

814
00:49:45,132 --> 00:49:46,892
from the public and from each other is a burden

815
00:49:47,212 --> 00:49:49,052
to onerous for any of you to bear, there is

816
00:49:49,052 --> 00:49:51,292
a simple solution. And one that does not require putting

817
00:49:51,292 --> 00:49:53,772
a bylaw end office. There's an election this year and

818
00:49:53,772 --> 00:49:56,012
you are welcome to end your public service then. If

819
00:49:56,092 --> 00:49:57,932
that is too untoweight, there is a door right there

820
00:49:58,252 --> 00:49:59,692
and you are welcome to walk through it and not

821
00:49:59,692 --> 00:50:02,172
return. And I'm not, I'm not joking. That is a

822
00:50:02,572 --> 00:50:04,964
you do not have to do this work. So let

823
00:50:04,964 --> 00:50:08,158
me offer a few solutions to wrap up. First and

824
00:50:08,238 --> 00:50:10,478
foremost, tonight either remove these couple of items from the

825
00:50:10,638 --> 00:50:13,838
procedure bylaw before adopting it. Or perhaps based on what

826
00:50:13,918 --> 00:50:15,758
we've heard this even being deferred until such time that

827
00:50:16,078 --> 00:50:19,438
aversion, that respects the principles of democracy can be prepared.

828
00:50:20,231 --> 00:50:22,471
A recent editorial in the examiner made some very valuable

829
00:50:22,711 --> 00:50:26,151
suggestions. And pointed that these issues can be addressed in

830
00:50:26,231 --> 00:50:29,671
the consideration of how council agendas are prepared. It is

831
00:50:29,751 --> 00:50:31,591
very seldom as a surprise by the time we get

832
00:50:31,591 --> 00:50:33,911
to a meeting what item will spur a great number

833
00:50:33,911 --> 00:50:36,071
of delegations or what Adam will score a great deal

834
00:50:36,151 --> 00:50:39,031
of debate. This should be taken into account when drafting

835
00:50:39,111 --> 00:50:40,951
agendas to avoid the situation we've seen too many times

836
00:50:41,271 --> 00:50:43,751
when meetings are six, eight, 10 hours long. And then

837
00:50:43,751 --> 00:50:46,506
in the next cycle they're 45 minutes long. We could

838
00:50:46,586 --> 00:50:50,906
also consider strengthening rules and processes around multiple delegations from

839
00:50:51,386 --> 00:50:53,546
individuals representing the same group. I think we've all been

840
00:50:53,706 --> 00:50:55,946
at meetings where a group which has great deals passion

841
00:50:56,026 --> 00:50:58,506
a lot to say about an issue. My register five

842
00:50:58,586 --> 00:51:03,337
or six delegates. Um, there could be consideration or some

843
00:51:03,337 --> 00:51:06,057
processes put in place to prioritize people who are not

844
00:51:06,137 --> 00:51:08,697
representing those groups. But any such change we need to

845
00:51:08,697 --> 00:51:11,577
be drafted with great care. Let's finish this slide. Um,

846
00:51:11,897 --> 00:51:14,217
to ensure that, sir, great. Thank you. So just those

847
00:51:14,297 --> 00:51:15,977
rules need to draft it with great care to make

848
00:51:15,897 --> 00:51:17,817
sure that they do not, that they are balanced themselves

849
00:51:18,057 --> 00:51:20,297
and do not exclude people participating in a good faith.

850
00:51:20,217 --> 00:51:22,457
So that would also be a reason to defer. So

851
00:51:22,697 --> 00:51:25,097
more than anything for the sake of democracy itself, I

852
00:51:25,337 --> 00:51:27,257
ask that the bylaw has written not be adopted this

853
00:51:27,257 --> 00:51:30,425
evening. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Hillman. There could be

854
00:51:30,425 --> 00:51:33,704
some questions, questions. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you.

855
00:51:34,431 --> 00:51:36,111
Mr. Brady, please, Roy.

856
00:51:56,113 --> 00:51:57,713
If we could have your David address for the public

857
00:51:57,953 --> 00:52:03,854
record, of course, uh, Roy Brady wear street. Okay. Also

858
00:52:04,334 --> 00:52:07,774
on delegations with a few extra points really. Um, I

859
00:52:08,094 --> 00:52:10,494
was caught sleeping last week and thanks others were too

860
00:52:10,734 --> 00:52:14,334
because of the report did state in it. Quote that

861
00:52:14,334 --> 00:52:18,014
a maximum of 10 delegations be permitted at a council

862
00:52:18,014 --> 00:52:22,494
meeting, uh, unquote. Then it was justified quote in order

863
00:52:22,734 --> 00:52:28,324
to support efficient agenda management. Unquote. As if the public

864
00:52:28,644 --> 00:52:34,324
speaking as part of the Democratic process breeds inefficiency and

865
00:52:34,324 --> 00:52:38,564
is not so necessary. That was my impression. City Council

866
00:52:38,644 --> 00:52:42,244
meetings are, are held not only for municipalitics to debate

867
00:52:42,564 --> 00:52:45,844
and vote. But so importantly for residents to address city

868
00:52:46,004 --> 00:52:49,604
council themselves or have other people do it. Do realize

869
00:52:49,764 --> 00:52:52,724
that the audience includes more than the residents in this

870
00:52:52,724 --> 00:52:56,084
gallery, but also at homes on live stream. This is

871
00:52:56,484 --> 00:53:00,484
sharing input. And the central part of the whole Democratic

872
00:53:00,804 --> 00:53:03,684
process as much as need as much as needs to

873
00:53:03,684 --> 00:53:08,084
be communicated. Otherwise the public input, according to this report,

874
00:53:08,404 --> 00:53:12,324
is to be undemocratically restricted to as few opportunities as

875
00:53:12,404 --> 00:53:16,564
possible. And as short a period of time as possible,

876
00:53:16,484 --> 00:53:22,442
all in the name of efficiency. Hathaben serious problems. With

877
00:53:22,522 --> 00:53:26,746
delegations. I haven't heard it expressed by you. There's been

878
00:53:26,746 --> 00:53:32,586
no particular public Oakrai or any Ocry around the council

879
00:53:32,666 --> 00:53:36,426
people here. So, uh, if it hasn't been expressed publicly

880
00:53:36,826 --> 00:53:40,849
or democratically, the problem. You can find it easy to

881
00:53:40,929 --> 00:53:45,329
drop this one, that part. Because of restrictions toward delegations,

882
00:53:45,489 --> 00:53:49,729
there would at times, uh, be a lively competition to

883
00:53:49,809 --> 00:53:53,089
get on that proposed magic 10 list such as apply

884
00:53:53,249 --> 00:53:57,009
on Tuesday, or maybe on Wednesday, you wouldn't be eligible.

885
00:53:57,169 --> 00:54:01,868
Imagine. To speak or not to speak at a mandated

886
00:54:02,108 --> 00:54:07,904
political form. Being restricted. For this particular proposal, and for

887
00:54:07,984 --> 00:54:12,064
some others, um, cheering me, I'm sure. Yes. There are

888
00:54:12,144 --> 00:54:17,497
separate parts. They're all important. That need to be addressed,

889
00:54:17,417 --> 00:54:20,617
such as in this case, there's delegations, cell phones, notices,

890
00:54:20,537 --> 00:54:25,577
emotion, deferrals, other businesses and so on. Such occasions require

891
00:54:25,977 --> 00:54:30,457
additional delegations because all these challenges can't be crammed into

892
00:54:30,777 --> 00:54:36,103
one short delegation. Another problem affecting use of delegations is

893
00:54:36,183 --> 00:54:40,103
the city's regularity of having overloaded agenda items at one

894
00:54:40,183 --> 00:54:46,919
city. Often. Number, yes. And also complexities. This problem affects

895
00:54:47,959 --> 00:54:51,559
counselors to read study further than debate. So much and

896
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:56,679
devote so much attention. But residents thus experience related problems

897
00:54:57,079 --> 00:54:59,959
such as overload that would likely increase the need and

898
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:02,999
opportunity to address so much in such a certain time

899
00:55:04,759 --> 00:55:08,279
delegations then are even more necessary as part of the

900
00:55:08,599 --> 00:55:14,519
democratic process. Also, please do try to stop directly involving

901
00:55:14,919 --> 00:55:18,439
the non - political staff to assert political discourse and

902
00:55:18,519 --> 00:55:21,879
decision - making decision making. They have enough responsibilities that

903
00:55:21,879 --> 00:55:27,399
workload. They've got problems of provincial interference research. So much

904
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:32,439
detailed changing issues. Staff could still speak to counselors. But

905
00:55:32,439 --> 00:55:38,285
as residents. As residents. In general, deferring proposals allows for

906
00:55:38,365 --> 00:55:42,285
further serious study and reaction to public input and then

907
00:55:42,365 --> 00:55:46,285
return with an improved version. Reduce contents perhaps. And even

908
00:55:46,445 --> 00:55:51,485
at times withdrawals, withdrawal of it. So from me, of

909
00:55:51,485 --> 00:55:55,245
course, the delegation section of this report needs to be

910
00:55:55,485 --> 00:56:01,725
removed. Absolutely. And realizing other contentions in the report deferring

911
00:56:01,885 --> 00:56:05,485
the report in its entirety should be considered. Seriously considered.

912
00:56:07,228 --> 00:56:10,828
Oh, and here's a novel idea. To examine these issues,

913
00:56:10,748 --> 00:56:15,851
important issues further. How about involving the public. Who weren't

914
00:56:15,851 --> 00:56:21,253
previously involved. And that would be real democracy. Thank you.

915
00:56:22,826 --> 00:56:25,695
Thanks very much, Roy. There could be some questions. Questions

916
00:56:25,695 --> 00:56:30,896
for Mr. Brittany, Councillor Baldwin, please. Mr. Chair, just a

917
00:56:30,896 --> 00:56:32,976
comment first. Royce, always great to have you here in

918
00:56:33,056 --> 00:56:36,710
making a delegation to city council. What's that story? It's

919
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:38,790
always nice to have you making a W. Thank you.

920
00:56:38,790 --> 00:56:43,110
Thank you. Last year you weren't here nearly enough. You

921
00:56:43,110 --> 00:56:48,805
were missed. Last year you weren't here nearly enough. You

922
00:56:48,965 --> 00:56:51,685
were missed. Well, I'll do something about that. Don't worry.

923
00:56:54,638 --> 00:56:57,518
Now the question Mr. Chairish, well you made a, made

924
00:56:57,598 --> 00:57:05,662
a statement. About staff. Either making saying things. But I

925
00:57:05,662 --> 00:57:08,345
know that they're not casting a vote. And I refer

926
00:57:08,585 --> 00:57:12,265
to staff as subject experts. So, and the other point

927
00:57:12,425 --> 00:57:13,865
I want to make about that and I'll ask you

928
00:57:14,105 --> 00:57:17,225
the question in a minute. Some of our staff are

929
00:57:17,225 --> 00:57:20,265
not city of Peterborough residents. So you say they are

930
00:57:20,665 --> 00:57:23,705
residents. They are residents, but they may not be residents

931
00:57:23,785 --> 00:57:26,905
of the city of Peterborough. Um, how do we go

932
00:57:26,985 --> 00:57:30,505
about getting information from them if we don't ask. Well,

933
00:57:30,825 --> 00:57:33,865
great. Of course. They are to provide information. But this

934
00:57:34,025 --> 00:57:36,105
was a committee that did a lot more than that.

935
00:57:36,505 --> 00:57:40,105
It made very serious suggestions for, Oh, we could duck

936
00:57:40,105 --> 00:57:43,625
ourselves around this table and how people conduct themselves. So

937
00:57:43,705 --> 00:57:45,785
I'm not too sure that's what we're the staff should

938
00:57:45,785 --> 00:57:48,434
be involved. And I don't think they want to be.

939
00:57:50,551 --> 00:57:56,652
Fair enough. Thank you. Thank you.

940
00:58:12,422 --> 00:58:14,182
Welcome Philip. If we get out of here, David addressed

941
00:58:14,182 --> 00:58:16,662
for the public record. And you'll have five minutes, sir,

942
00:58:16,582 --> 00:58:20,046
to make a presentation. Thank you. It's a Philip Jolliker

943
00:58:20,286 --> 00:58:24,676
37 York drive. Beautibor on Zero. Of course. Thanks Mary

944
00:58:24,836 --> 00:58:27,602
Leo counselors and city staff. Thank you for the opportunity

945
00:58:27,682 --> 00:58:30,322
to speak today. I'm here as someone who has had

946
00:58:30,402 --> 00:58:33,762
the privilege of working alongside Dr. Peggy Shaunesty and the

947
00:58:33,762 --> 00:58:35,922
team at Righte the Heel and Red Path Wellness Center

948
00:58:36,162 --> 00:58:38,882
over the past couple of years. I initially came into

949
00:58:38,962 --> 00:58:41,682
this work through marketing support, but very quickly it became

950
00:58:41,842 --> 00:58:44,722
something much more personal. Through this work, I have met

951
00:58:44,802 --> 00:58:48,002
people who are the success stories of Red Bath. I've

952
00:58:48,082 --> 00:58:50,642
heard their words have listened to where they were, where

953
00:58:50,802 --> 00:58:54,562
they are now. These are not abstract outcomes or statistics.

954
00:58:54,562 --> 00:58:57,762
These are people who were once written off and are

955
00:58:57,762 --> 00:59:00,722
now showing up for their lives. Their families and their

956
00:59:00,882 --> 00:59:04,987
community because someone believed in them. And that believed them

957
00:59:05,067 --> 00:59:07,661
in them when it mattered most. This issue is also

958
00:59:07,821 --> 00:59:11,319
personal to me beyond my professional involvement. I have family

959
00:59:11,639 --> 00:59:14,279
in this community who struggle with addiction and her on

960
00:59:14,279 --> 00:59:18,256
the streets. I've watched the impact ripple through families, relationships

961
00:59:18,816 --> 00:59:21,936
and generations. And I've also lost close family members to

962
00:59:22,176 --> 00:59:26,016
a drug overdosed in several to alcoholism. Those losses stay

963
00:59:26,096 --> 00:59:29,296
with you. It changes how you hear these conversations. It

964
00:59:29,536 --> 00:59:33,930
changes how you view responsibility, urgency and compassion. We often

965
00:59:34,010 --> 00:59:37,054
talk about meeting people where they're at. Red path does

966
00:59:37,134 --> 00:59:40,094
exactly that. This program is a proven piece that the

967
00:59:40,094 --> 00:59:42,894
recovery puzzle. It meets people who are ready for recovery

968
00:59:43,534 --> 00:59:47,614
where they are through accountability structure and depersonal work. It

969
00:59:47,774 --> 00:59:50,334
helps them rebuild their lives. This is not a quick

970
00:59:50,574 --> 00:59:52,734
fix and is not a band - aid. It's a

971
00:59:52,814 --> 00:59:56,654
model with a proven track record. Grounded indignity, wellness, and

972
00:59:56,894 --> 01:00:00,066
long - term healing. An essential part of this work

973
01:00:00,626 --> 01:00:02,866
in one that many of you already acknowledged is the

974
01:00:02,946 --> 01:00:05,859
critical gap in our community. Uh, for the need of

975
01:00:07,059 --> 01:00:10,259
transitional beds. All councillors agree that PETABO does not have

976
01:00:10,579 --> 01:00:14,819
enough transitional housing options, particularly for people moving from treatment

977
01:00:15,699 --> 01:00:19,299
into stability. This funding request directly supports the planning of

978
01:00:19,539 --> 01:00:23,219
transitional beds at the red path location. These beds are

979
01:00:23,219 --> 01:00:27,943
not about warehousing people. They are both continuity of care,

980
01:00:28,023 --> 01:00:31,863
stability, accountability, and giving people a real chance to sustain

981
01:00:32,183 --> 01:00:35,871
recovery during the most vulnerable stage of their journey. Last

982
01:00:35,951 --> 01:00:40,140
week has cancelled discussed. Meeting this funding request forward. Something

983
01:00:40,140 --> 01:00:42,220
stood out to me. Every one of you that took

984
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:45,180
the time to visit the new red path facility. Ask

985
01:00:45,180 --> 01:00:48,620
questions and listen directly to Dr. Shaughnessy voted in favor

986
01:00:48,700 --> 01:00:51,500
of moving this request to the next step. Those who

987
01:00:51,580 --> 01:00:55,100
did not visit expressed hesitation and asked for a deferral

988
01:00:55,180 --> 01:00:58,306
or did not support at all. That is not criticism.

989
01:00:58,466 --> 01:01:02,466
It's simply telling. See in the work matters, listening matters.

990
01:01:02,546 --> 01:01:06,146
Understanding the scope of the heart of the program matters.

991
01:01:06,626 --> 01:01:08,866
I also want to acknowledge a moment that moved me

992
01:01:08,866 --> 01:01:13,483
emotionally. Councillor Parnell thanked Councillor Crowley for bringing Dr. Shaughnessy

993
01:01:14,043 --> 01:01:16,523
and write to heel to the table for discussion and

994
01:01:16,603 --> 01:01:19,883
support from the city. That moment mattered because I know

995
01:01:19,963 --> 01:01:23,163
how long and how hard Dr. Sean is he has

996
01:01:23,163 --> 01:01:26,123
been fighting for this community. This did not start yesterday.

997
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:30,020
This has been years of persistence, advocacy, and showing up

998
01:01:30,020 --> 01:01:32,580
when it would have been easier just to walk away.

999
01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:35,380
Let me be clear. This is not about investing in

1000
01:01:35,380 --> 01:01:38,580
one person. This is about investing in our community. It's

1001
01:01:38,740 --> 01:01:42,820
about investing in a solution, not a temporary response. It

1002
01:01:43,060 --> 01:01:46,020
is about recognizing that addiction is a growing complex issue

1003
01:01:46,740 --> 01:01:50,500
that touches housing, mental health, safety, and families across the

1004
01:01:50,580 --> 01:01:54,327
city. It was said during council discussions that addiction services

1005
01:01:54,727 --> 01:01:58,647
and transitional houses fall under provincial responsibility. And although I

1006
01:01:58,647 --> 01:02:01,847
understand that perspective, and I agree that provincial and federal

1007
01:02:01,927 --> 01:02:04,487
governments must be due more. At the same time, our

1008
01:02:04,647 --> 01:02:07,387
city has stepped up before. We have supported Brock Mission.

1009
01:02:07,307 --> 01:02:11,227
We've supported one city and others. We recognize that while

1010
01:02:11,547 --> 01:02:15,707
jurisdiction matters, so does leadership. Addiction does not wait for

1011
01:02:15,867 --> 01:02:18,747
funding silos to be resolved. It lands in our community

1012
01:02:19,227 --> 01:02:21,547
whether we like it or not. People who struggle with

1013
01:02:21,787 --> 01:02:26,427
addiction are often abandoned. Long before they find help. Families

1014
01:02:26,587 --> 01:02:31,307
burn out. Friends lose hope, system spail them, communities unintentionally

1015
01:02:31,467 --> 01:02:34,062
give up. Dr. Sean is he has not given up.

1016
01:02:34,914 --> 01:02:38,194
She shows up day after day, year after year, often

1017
01:02:38,274 --> 01:02:41,314
outside the system. Always judgment - free always focused on

1018
01:02:41,474 --> 01:02:45,794
healing and always caring. And how are we without failed,

1019
01:02:45,714 --> 01:02:48,514
offering a warm hug as people walk out the door?

1020
01:02:48,994 --> 01:02:51,794
That human connection is not incidental. It is part of

1021
01:02:51,874 --> 01:02:54,834
why this works succeeds. Like and or not, this is

1022
01:02:54,834 --> 01:02:58,594
part of our shared responsibility as a community. Supporting those

1023
01:02:58,674 --> 01:03:01,714
who suffer, supporting those who have knowledge, the heart, and

1024
01:03:02,034 --> 01:03:04,114
rely of the experience to help in choosing to be

1025
01:03:04,514 --> 01:03:08,274
proactive rather than reactive. And on a final note, as

1026
01:03:08,354 --> 01:03:10,194
a board director of the Peterborough Core at the Chamber

1027
01:03:10,194 --> 01:03:12,194
of Commerce and has a co - host of the

1028
01:03:12,274 --> 01:03:15,554
Upcoming Chamber AM on Tuesday, February 10th at 8 a.

1029
01:03:15,474 --> 01:03:18,114
m. I'd like to personally buy all members of city

1030
01:03:18,194 --> 01:03:21,794
council to join us for copy, networking, and a tour

1031
01:03:21,874 --> 01:03:24,594
of the new red path wellness center alongside some of

1032
01:03:24,594 --> 01:03:28,674
our city's business leaders. I truly believe that teams work

1033
01:03:28,914 --> 01:03:32,194
firsthand and hear indirectly from Rosenthal continues to be one

1034
01:03:32,194 --> 01:03:35,234
of the most powerful ways to understand its impact. Thank

1035
01:03:35,234 --> 01:03:37,234
you for your time and thank you for considering this.

1036
01:03:37,794 --> 01:03:39,874
Thank you very much, Mr. Jolliker. There could be some

1037
01:03:40,034 --> 01:03:43,954
questions. Councillor Crowley, please. Um, thank you Chair through you.

1038
01:03:43,874 --> 01:03:46,354
So, HiFil, thanks for coming. That was really great. I

1039
01:03:46,434 --> 01:03:48,834
loved listening to that. That was fantastic. Thank you so

1040
01:03:48,754 --> 01:03:52,274
much. But you also do a lot of work. I

1041
01:03:52,194 --> 01:03:53,794
mean, I didn't know that you were coming at all

1042
01:03:53,794 --> 01:03:57,474
games tonight, but you do things to help the community

1043
01:03:58,434 --> 01:04:01,074
directly to with your harmony for healing. That's right. Right.

1044
01:04:01,394 --> 01:04:04,114
When is that? Because I think that's important because that's

1045
01:04:04,274 --> 01:04:07,874
also helping. Yeah. So through you mayor, um, that's February

1046
01:04:08,274 --> 01:04:10,754
19th. It's in support of the assertive. I reached suicide

1047
01:04:10,754 --> 01:04:13,234
prevention program. It's a sold I'd show at Marco Hall,

1048
01:04:13,154 --> 01:04:15,314
but it's a five year initiative to help raise awareness

1049
01:04:15,554 --> 01:04:18,834
around suicide. Beautiful. And I'm waiting for my invites that

1050
01:04:18,914 --> 01:04:21,714
I can come and sing at it. But that's fine.

1051
01:04:21,954 --> 01:04:26,679
Whatever film. Thanks Phil. Thanks. Councillor Dugay has joined us

1052
01:04:26,839 --> 01:04:33,053
online. We've just confirmed that Councillor Beam release. Thank you

1053
01:04:33,373 --> 01:04:36,173
Mayor. Phil, thanks for being here through you. Uh, Bill,

1054
01:04:36,093 --> 01:04:39,373
can you just talk quickly about, um, how Red Path

1055
01:04:39,373 --> 01:04:42,813
is or can be a good neighbor. Um, needless to

1056
01:04:42,893 --> 01:04:46,813
say the concerns this term around Trinity and Wolf Street

1057
01:04:47,533 --> 01:04:50,333
and the challenges in those neighborhoods. Um, can you just

1058
01:04:50,333 --> 01:04:54,413
talk about your experience with, uh, with red path being

1059
01:04:54,413 --> 01:04:56,173
a good neighbor or what the plan will be moving

1060
01:04:56,413 --> 01:05:00,013
forward, please? Uh, three, you married. Yeah. Of course. I've

1061
01:05:00,093 --> 01:05:02,653
had many, many visits at the red path building, both

1062
01:05:02,653 --> 01:05:05,453
at their old location and their new location. Now once

1063
01:05:05,533 --> 01:05:07,693
has there ever been an ambulance there? No one's has

1064
01:05:07,693 --> 01:05:10,413
there ever been police there. Everybody that they treat has

1065
01:05:10,493 --> 01:05:13,693
been respectful, kind. And they're there for a reason. They're

1066
01:05:14,173 --> 01:05:15,933
there at a point in their life when they're ready

1067
01:05:15,933 --> 01:05:19,533
to get better. And that's what Dr. Peggy Shaunesty's there

1068
01:05:19,533 --> 01:05:23,159
to do. And that's what Red Pat does. Of course

1069
01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:26,663
any additional questions were filled. Thank you very much, sir.

1070
01:05:26,983 --> 01:05:31,063
Thank you. Our next delegation is George Horton. And if

1071
01:05:31,063 --> 01:05:33,303
the deputy clerk, we want to reach them online, uh,

1072
01:05:33,703 --> 01:05:42,894
Natalie. Sorry.

1073
01:06:18,149 --> 01:06:27,585
Seed, Mr. Hort, please. Oh, is this on speaking to

1074
01:06:27,585 --> 01:06:32,465
council now? Uh, sir. Uh, hello everybody. I hope everybody.

1075
01:06:32,385 --> 01:06:36,964
Okay. Hi. Um, hear me. Okay. My name's. Ok. Okay.

1076
01:06:37,124 --> 01:06:39,844
My name's George Horton. I live on four or five

1077
01:06:40,004 --> 01:06:43,654
five Stewart Street. I spoke to council before when the

1078
01:06:44,054 --> 01:06:48,374
one city was, uh, municipal funding, um, and, uh, this

1079
01:06:48,374 --> 01:06:52,054
is a similar organization, uh, red path. Um, and I

1080
01:06:52,054 --> 01:06:55,334
just wanted to bring to everybody's attention to ensure there's

1081
01:06:55,414 --> 01:06:59,494
consideration for people that live in the neighborhood. Um, I

1082
01:06:59,494 --> 01:07:02,214
think that's a very important aspect of these types of

1083
01:07:02,614 --> 01:07:06,214
things and how these organizations affect people that live in

1084
01:07:06,294 --> 01:07:12,551
the neighborhood. Um, that sometimes gets overlooked. Um, uh, red

1085
01:07:12,871 --> 01:07:16,071
path, uh, moved into its current location, I think at

1086
01:07:16,071 --> 01:07:19,095
the beginning of last summer. Um, and I, in fact,

1087
01:07:19,255 --> 01:07:21,815
have to say that it has been pretty positive with

1088
01:07:21,815 --> 01:07:28,375
them there. That corner summer prior, summer 2024 was pretty

1089
01:07:28,695 --> 01:07:32,023
negative. There's a lot of prostitution around that area. Um,

1090
01:07:32,583 --> 01:07:35,272
drug use and all sorts of things. But the, uh,

1091
01:07:35,672 --> 01:07:39,112
red PAC center seem to be very positive. So I

1092
01:07:39,112 --> 01:07:41,672
actually think, um, I want to say the council should

1093
01:07:42,152 --> 01:07:45,432
support them because I like the idea that they're focused

1094
01:07:45,432 --> 01:07:50,993
on rehabilitation healing. Um, you know, I sort of noticed

1095
01:07:51,073 --> 01:07:54,193
that that property was becoming more active, like more cars

1096
01:07:54,433 --> 01:07:58,753
or parks there. Um, people coming and going, um, I

1097
01:07:58,913 --> 01:08:03,303
never saw anyone around there like smoking drugs. Half doubt

1098
01:08:03,303 --> 01:08:05,623
on the grass. As I'd seen over at the other

1099
01:08:05,703 --> 01:08:10,263
places, it just generally seemed like, uh, improvement in the

1100
01:08:10,503 --> 01:08:14,598
neighborhood. Um, so I thought that was very positive. I

1101
01:08:14,758 --> 01:08:18,518
have, I don't know much about, um, the organization itself

1102
01:08:19,078 --> 01:08:21,718
other than following the money on Instagram. And I understand.

1103
01:08:22,739 --> 01:08:28,565
Peggy's honestly, which I haven't seen yet. But just as

1104
01:08:28,565 --> 01:08:31,845
somebody that lives slip in a much directly across the

1105
01:08:32,085 --> 01:08:35,125
street from where they're wanting to set up, um, for

1106
01:08:35,125 --> 01:08:39,605
me, it's been, they have seemed pretty positive, um, and

1107
01:08:40,005 --> 01:08:43,445
if they continue down that path, um, I think that's

1108
01:08:43,845 --> 01:08:46,165
generally a good thing, but yeah. So that's all I

1109
01:08:46,325 --> 01:08:50,245
wanted to say to ensure everybody's just taking concern for

1110
01:08:50,405 --> 01:08:53,045
how these things affect people that live in the neighborhood.

1111
01:08:53,976 --> 01:08:58,456
So yeah, thanks very much. Mr. Hort for your presentation.

1112
01:08:58,376 --> 01:09:03,042
There could be some questions. Questions for Mr. Wharton. No

1113
01:09:03,202 --> 01:09:06,394
questions for you, sir. Thank you so very much. Next,

1114
01:09:06,314 --> 01:09:15,461
uh, Dr. Peggy Shaudy. Have a good day. Bye. Welcome

1115
01:09:15,781 --> 01:09:18,421
by Dr. Shotacy if we could have your name and

1116
01:09:18,421 --> 01:09:24,279
address for the public record, please. Um, Peggy Shauna see.

1117
01:09:24,865 --> 01:09:29,256
Stuart Croft Crescent. You worship. I'm here through worship to

1118
01:09:29,336 --> 01:09:36,082
counsel for any questions. For Dr. Shawsny. Councillor Bigger, please.

1119
01:09:38,628 --> 01:09:40,468
Through you mayor to Dr. Shaughnessy. Thank you for being

1120
01:09:40,468 --> 01:09:44,120
here. Um, similar to my first question and Mr. Horton

1121
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:48,120
mentioned it as well. I'm always very cognizant of neighborhoods.

1122
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,880
And when we look at facilities like this, I don't

1123
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,120
think I have to get into it, but Trinity and

1124
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,400
Wolf Street have not been positive for those neighborhoods, high

1125
01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:01,000
crime, low property values, vandalism. Can you just talk about

1126
01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:05,080
how you'll work with the neighborhood with Red Path and

1127
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:08,600
what the history is working with the neighborhoods you're located

1128
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:13,146
in. Dr. Shauty, please. Do your worship. Um, yeah, we

1129
01:10:13,546 --> 01:10:16,746
like, so prior to the location at 271 Brock Street

1130
01:10:16,986 --> 01:10:18,586
where we are right now, we were at the old

1131
01:10:18,746 --> 01:10:21,386
St. Andrews Church. We were there for three years. So

1132
01:10:21,626 --> 01:10:24,346
we never had a needle, an ambulance of police officer

1133
01:10:24,426 --> 01:10:26,826
other than a coffee. Um, when people come to our

1134
01:10:26,986 --> 01:10:29,306
center, they have like, you might come in and you

1135
01:10:29,386 --> 01:10:31,626
might be high at that time, but you're only going

1136
01:10:31,546 --> 01:10:32,986
to do it once. And then you have to commit

1137
01:10:33,146 --> 01:10:36,666
that you're going to start, start your healing journey. So

1138
01:10:36,746 --> 01:10:39,466
we don't do harm reduction. I'm not against harm reduction.

1139
01:10:39,386 --> 01:10:41,946
We do not do harm reduction at the center. And

1140
01:10:42,106 --> 01:10:45,546
we've never had any problems whatsoever for overdoses. And we

1141
01:10:45,466 --> 01:10:48,506
have total, people have total respect of our property or

1142
01:10:48,506 --> 01:10:51,698
they wouldn't be invited back. Thank you, Peggy. Appreciate you

1143
01:10:51,698 --> 01:10:56,235
being here. Okay. Thanks. Councillor Burke, please. I'm merely a

1144
01:10:56,235 --> 01:10:57,835
three of you to Dr. Sean and Stepeggy. Thank you

1145
01:10:57,835 --> 01:10:59,915
so much for being here. This is awesome. Um, I

1146
01:11:00,475 --> 01:11:03,675
believe you received close to unanimous support at the last

1147
01:11:03,755 --> 01:11:05,835
meeting for this funding. And that's a great thing. Um,

1148
01:11:06,555 --> 01:11:09,435
definitely aware of the program at St. Andrews. I haven't

1149
01:11:09,435 --> 01:11:11,835
been to the new site. Um, one of the questions

1150
01:11:11,995 --> 01:11:16,155
I had was around, um, you know, I understand your

1151
01:11:16,315 --> 01:11:18,715
program well enough to know that there is a healing

1152
01:11:18,955 --> 01:11:21,915
component, but in this pitch, there was a, uh, there

1153
01:11:21,995 --> 01:11:26,235
isn't affordable housing component. And, um, the question I had,

1154
01:11:26,155 --> 01:11:27,675
and I assume that part of this funding will allow

1155
01:11:27,755 --> 01:11:31,275
you to explore the capacity for what that looks like.

1156
01:11:31,195 --> 01:11:33,355
Um, but can you just share with council, please, what

1157
01:11:33,435 --> 01:11:36,875
the vision is, um, in terms of the affordable housing

1158
01:11:37,915 --> 01:11:40,555
portion of the project, like what, what is your preliminary

1159
01:11:40,635 --> 01:11:45,275
vision for that to look like, sorry. Thanks for your

1160
01:11:45,275 --> 01:11:49,355
worship. Councillor Burke, um, just as I spoke with Brock

1161
01:11:49,435 --> 01:11:52,475
Mission, I watched your council meeting last week, um, and

1162
01:11:52,795 --> 01:11:54,555
I spoke with them on their process when they came

1163
01:11:54,715 --> 01:11:58,715
in front of council for the 250, 000. That just

1164
01:11:58,715 --> 01:12:01,275
like they said, this is a vision. Um, this is

1165
01:12:01,435 --> 01:12:04,395
totally separate from what we're discussing how wonderful we are

1166
01:12:04,475 --> 01:12:07,435
here tonight, because we already know that what we're trying

1167
01:12:07,435 --> 01:12:10,795
to move forward is transitional housing. So we need the

1168
01:12:11,035 --> 01:12:15,275
funding in order to start the process of the preliminary

1169
01:12:15,995 --> 01:12:19,809
parts of the vision. And then, um, from there, see

1170
01:12:19,889 --> 01:12:21,969
one thing that we've never really had was the support

1171
01:12:22,049 --> 01:12:25,569
from council. So as a support from council, then you,

1172
01:12:25,569 --> 01:12:27,889
that shows that the government wants to get behind you

1173
01:12:27,969 --> 01:12:31,009
as well. So the more that we come in front,

1174
01:12:30,929 --> 01:12:33,409
the more of people we come with new ideas and

1175
01:12:33,409 --> 01:12:36,209
innovations such as this and add to what we need

1176
01:12:36,689 --> 01:12:39,249
is a transitional housing. We can bring more funding to

1177
01:12:39,249 --> 01:12:43,339
the city. Thanks. And through the mayor there, but there

1178
01:12:43,499 --> 01:12:46,139
definitely is an affordable, like a living component to this

1179
01:12:46,539 --> 01:12:48,939
that differs from the old models where people that are

1180
01:12:49,019 --> 01:12:51,979
taking your programming will also live, like live on scent.

1181
01:12:51,979 --> 01:12:56,098
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Councillor Baldwin, please.

1182
01:12:57,913 --> 01:13:01,034
Yeah. Thanks, your worship. Peggy, uh, good evening. How many

1183
01:13:01,114 --> 01:13:04,480
clients do your service in a year. Does it vary

1184
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:05,920
or do you have a finite number there that you

1185
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:10,006
can speak to. Well, they do fifty three hundred, maybe

1186
01:13:10,086 --> 01:13:14,814
more. They know by when my staff, I could get

1187
01:13:14,894 --> 01:13:16,894
that number for you. I'm just guessing right now, but

1188
01:13:17,294 --> 01:13:19,934
when we put in our Frontaria, how do we get

1189
01:13:20,174 --> 01:13:22,894
funding through Ontario House? So we do reports back to

1190
01:13:23,054 --> 01:13:30,631
them how many people come through. You worship. Peggy, how

1191
01:13:30,711 --> 01:13:34,391
long, how long does it take for your, your clientele

1192
01:13:35,431 --> 01:13:38,791
to no longer require your service? Or do they always

1193
01:13:38,871 --> 01:13:43,177
require your service. Well, I guess through your worship, um,

1194
01:13:43,337 --> 01:13:46,377
I guess that's a really difficult question because we're building

1195
01:13:46,617 --> 01:13:49,817
community and we're building support. And I should never end

1196
01:13:49,977 --> 01:13:52,777
in your life. So, um, once you start coming to

1197
01:13:52,697 --> 01:13:56,701
us, you have us for life. If you need us,

1198
01:13:56,621 --> 01:13:59,021
but like, you know, we have people come, they just

1199
01:13:59,101 --> 01:14:01,261
do program, they go off and do their work or

1200
01:14:01,341 --> 01:14:03,581
get their life back or whatever. And then you might

1201
01:14:03,581 --> 01:14:06,141
have someone out set really loves because we have so

1202
01:14:06,141 --> 01:14:09,261
many other things other than just addiction treatment program. Right.

1203
01:14:09,341 --> 01:14:11,421
So that is an even part of what we get

1204
01:14:11,661 --> 01:14:16,711
funded for we just do. Okay. Thank you very much.

1205
01:14:16,631 --> 01:14:18,151
And Peggy, thank you for what you're doing. Thank you.

1206
01:14:18,705 --> 01:14:22,948
Councillor, please. Chair to Ms. Shaughnessy, uh, Peggy. Thank you

1207
01:14:22,948 --> 01:14:26,289
very much for being here. Uh, a couple of questions.

1208
01:14:26,209 --> 01:14:28,578
There are two streams of money. Um, on affordable housing

1209
01:14:30,258 --> 01:14:32,978
and homeless streams and social services. If you have build

1210
01:14:33,058 --> 01:14:36,578
yourself to apply for either one of those, um, funding

1211
01:14:36,658 --> 01:14:40,658
streams for portable housing towards social service at the department

1212
01:14:41,778 --> 01:14:47,761
through your worship to Councillor Real. Uh, so. It looks

1213
01:14:47,761 --> 01:14:50,641
like there might be two questions there. I'm not sure.

1214
01:14:50,561 --> 01:14:53,761
But, um, I did speak with Sheldon. We did sit

1215
01:14:53,841 --> 01:14:56,721
down. Um, I had then I spoke to a few

1216
01:14:56,801 --> 01:15:00,161
other councillors that on the invitation came to visit us.

1217
01:15:00,081 --> 01:15:02,481
And we had chats on that I should probably come

1218
01:15:02,481 --> 01:15:05,281
in front of council. So that's how this all started.

1219
01:15:05,201 --> 01:15:08,401
And then we realized that it would be best to

1220
01:15:08,401 --> 01:15:13,521
go to for transitional housing. And but we needed the

1221
01:15:13,521 --> 01:15:17,521
sort of this money in order for to start to

1222
01:15:17,601 --> 01:15:21,121
make it beyond division. I really hesitated during that. I

1223
01:15:21,121 --> 01:15:24,315
don't even know if that's what you asked me. That's

1224
01:15:24,395 --> 01:15:26,715
real. Keep going. I'm through the chair to Mishawn. Let's

1225
01:15:26,795 --> 01:15:29,835
see. There's also, um, the heart fund, the eight million

1226
01:15:29,915 --> 01:15:34,395
dollars that is alligated to city Peterborough that is from

1227
01:15:34,635 --> 01:15:38,635
the forecast is the agency that's responsible that of you

1228
01:15:38,875 --> 01:15:40,715
made your, uh, if you're trying to make an application

1229
01:15:40,875 --> 01:15:44,395
or talk to forecast about, uh, applying for some missing

1230
01:15:44,475 --> 01:15:46,155
that, um, a lot of your things that you're doing

1231
01:15:46,715 --> 01:15:49,915
addiction mentally health, um, certainly that, uh, the work that

1232
01:15:49,915 --> 01:15:52,395
you do of you reached out to them to see

1233
01:15:52,555 --> 01:15:58,075
if you might be applicable of an applicant, uh, for

1234
01:15:58,075 --> 01:16:02,199
some of that money, uh, Peter Housing Corp. Certainly we're

1235
01:16:02,199 --> 01:16:04,265
a partner there and writing some of the housing. So

1236
01:16:04,425 --> 01:16:06,185
have you, um, have you reached out to them to

1237
01:16:06,265 --> 01:16:09,385
see if there's any funding available, uh, for right to

1238
01:16:09,545 --> 01:16:15,145
heal. Dr. Shauna State, please. The Ontario Health Heart Hub,

1239
01:16:15,065 --> 01:16:18,745
they call for proposal was issued to organizations already receiving

1240
01:16:19,145 --> 01:16:23,811
Ontario Health Funding. It was a highly detailed and competitive

1241
01:16:24,051 --> 01:16:28,051
process with only a small number of hubs funded across

1242
01:16:28,291 --> 01:16:31,764
to province. For this application, a group of established service

1243
01:16:31,844 --> 01:16:37,764
providers, including forecast, the Canadian Mental Health Association, the city,

1244
01:16:37,684 --> 01:16:40,919
and the office of the MP Dave Smith. Came together

1245
01:16:41,079 --> 01:16:46,652
to submit a proposal. As with any Ontario Health proposal,

1246
01:16:46,572 --> 01:16:51,292
the application required details on how funding would be used

1247
01:16:52,252 --> 01:16:55,970
and which organizations were formerly involved. The discussion we are

1248
01:16:56,050 --> 01:17:00,770
having now about possible transitional beds is part of a

1249
01:17:00,850 --> 01:17:05,157
future vision. Those beds do not currently exist as a

1250
01:17:05,157 --> 01:17:10,117
program service or funded initiative. Because there is no defined

1251
01:17:10,197 --> 01:17:13,749
project yet. There has been no basis to seek formal

1252
01:17:13,829 --> 01:17:17,349
support or funding partnerships for that idea at the time.

1253
01:17:19,245 --> 01:17:22,365
So if you ask me whether I approach forecasts for

1254
01:17:22,445 --> 01:17:27,127
support. No forecast was not asked to support this concept.

1255
01:17:27,047 --> 01:17:29,527
And they are not in the position to fund other

1256
01:17:29,607 --> 01:17:33,911
organizations unless they have current beds now. They are, like

1257
01:17:33,911 --> 01:17:37,991
others, other table, a service provider that receives funding for

1258
01:17:38,231 --> 01:17:41,700
their own programs. In short, this is an early stage

1259
01:17:41,780 --> 01:17:47,904
idea being explored. Not inactive funding proposal or partnership request.

1260
01:17:51,340 --> 01:17:53,900
The chairman is trying to see perhaps my question was,

1261
01:17:53,820 --> 01:17:59,260
um, it's confusing. It's not, if you're making an application

1262
01:17:59,500 --> 01:18:03,980
to be the proponent for the heart fund, it was

1263
01:18:03,980 --> 01:18:06,700
an application for a part of what the heart fund

1264
01:18:06,860 --> 01:18:10,069
in. And part of that is transitional housing. Which we

1265
01:18:10,149 --> 01:18:13,029
were housing court has been a player or providing some

1266
01:18:13,109 --> 01:18:16,869
of the housing. And I asked you if the proposal

1267
01:18:16,949 --> 01:18:21,909
you're doing with the traditional beds that you're hoping to

1268
01:18:22,149 --> 01:18:25,989
apply for, if you applied through forecast, who is the

1269
01:18:26,229 --> 01:18:29,349
agent for the heart fund in the city of Peterborough.

1270
01:18:30,006 --> 01:18:33,446
And I asked if you had made applications through forecasts.

1271
01:18:34,616 --> 01:18:38,283
For money for that program. Of supplying traditional housing housing

1272
01:18:38,763 --> 01:18:42,991
under that application of the hard fund. Dr. Shaughnessy, please.

1273
01:18:43,311 --> 01:18:46,751
To your wife, um, my understanding on what I'm coming

1274
01:18:46,911 --> 01:18:50,511
in front of council once again is for the first

1275
01:18:50,911 --> 01:18:53,791
section. Once I'm there, I'd be more than willing to

1276
01:18:54,191 --> 01:19:02,267
speak with broadcast. Thank you. Any further questions for Dr.

1277
01:19:02,427 --> 01:19:06,932
Shaughnessy. Councillor Burke, please. Um, yeah, through you, Marilyal and

1278
01:19:07,092 --> 01:19:09,572
the Dr. Sean, as you please, this is just like,

1279
01:19:09,572 --> 01:19:13,231
this is just, this question is not at all. It's

1280
01:19:13,391 --> 01:19:15,471
just for my own personal clarity as the counselor that

1281
01:19:15,951 --> 01:19:19,231
is in charge of homelessness and housing and whereby we

1282
01:19:19,551 --> 01:19:24,191
deal with a lot of requests similar, similarly to this,

1283
01:19:24,111 --> 01:19:27,231
which I do, I would support either way, but I

1284
01:19:27,311 --> 01:19:29,871
just, for my own self, I just need to get

1285
01:19:30,111 --> 01:19:33,551
some sort of clarity around because the motion specifically speaks

1286
01:19:33,631 --> 01:19:36,991
to affordable housing. Like the ask is attached to the

1287
01:19:37,151 --> 01:19:40,831
idea that there will be affordable housing produced. Um, and

1288
01:19:40,991 --> 01:19:43,791
I understand that it's just division right now, but, um,

1289
01:19:45,151 --> 01:19:49,791
council, by support by council supporting this, um, the goal

1290
01:19:49,871 --> 01:19:54,035
is to get you closer to that vision. Um, which

1291
01:19:54,355 --> 01:19:58,035
does include a certain number of units. Do you have

1292
01:19:58,035 --> 01:20:00,995
any sense of how many units the building has capacity

1293
01:20:01,155 --> 01:20:04,355
for or would you be applying for capital funding to,

1294
01:20:04,355 --> 01:20:07,315
to build, uh, to build out the building, um, can

1295
01:20:07,395 --> 01:20:09,395
you give us a sense of how many units, uh,

1296
01:20:10,435 --> 01:20:14,035
best case scenario could be provided. Please. Dr. Shaughnessy, please.

1297
01:20:13,955 --> 01:20:16,755
To your worship. Um, that, that's really hard. I'd like

1298
01:20:16,835 --> 01:20:19,955
to, I'd like to say, and it's transitional housing that

1299
01:20:20,035 --> 01:20:23,875
I would really like to say 20 units. Um, but

1300
01:20:24,195 --> 01:20:26,355
then I might be just BS union. I've been known

1301
01:20:26,355 --> 01:20:30,035
to do that before. So, um, I'm not really sure.

1302
01:20:29,955 --> 01:20:32,195
But, you know, we have to work with the city

1303
01:20:32,915 --> 01:20:34,835
like we don't know what the foundation of that building

1304
01:20:34,915 --> 01:20:39,034
is. Like we need engineers. We need the support of

1305
01:20:39,114 --> 01:20:41,194
the city who have the expertise to say, no, you're

1306
01:20:41,194 --> 01:20:43,914
not going that high or yes, you can. So like

1307
01:20:44,074 --> 01:20:46,794
I said, I'd love to say I could have, um,

1308
01:20:46,874 --> 01:20:49,614
20 beds. But like I said, you can come and

1309
01:20:49,694 --> 01:20:54,094
yell at me later. Thank you so much. Any, oh,

1310
01:20:54,174 --> 01:20:58,318
Councillor Faciliatis, you have a question. Thank you, Mayor, through

1311
01:20:58,478 --> 01:21:01,518
you and thank you to Dr. Shawnese for being here

1312
01:21:01,758 --> 01:21:05,198
tonight. And thank you for explaining to me, uh, when

1313
01:21:05,198 --> 01:21:07,918
I came to visit you, what you do. Um, yeah,

1314
01:21:07,918 --> 01:21:11,038
I get it. And, uh, I understand as much as

1315
01:21:11,118 --> 01:21:14,878
I can definitely. And so again, just to clarify, and

1316
01:21:14,878 --> 01:21:17,918
from this is I mentioned this and a few remarks

1317
01:21:17,998 --> 01:21:21,518
that I made, um, during general committee. Again, this is,

1318
01:21:21,598 --> 01:21:25,198
this is not, uh, grant or money for construction is

1319
01:21:25,198 --> 01:21:28,878
to complete planning preparatory work. And, you know, required to

1320
01:21:28,958 --> 01:21:33,038
unlock, you know, greater previncial federal capital funding is probably

1321
01:21:33,038 --> 01:21:35,278
what you're looking for. So if people are asking, you

1322
01:21:35,198 --> 01:21:38,478
know, what's the plan, what's the plan? Is this the

1323
01:21:38,558 --> 01:21:43,348
money basically is to develop the plan. Right? Fewership. Yes,

1324
01:21:43,348 --> 01:21:46,167
it is. Okay. No, I just, no, I just wanted

1325
01:21:46,247 --> 01:21:50,247
that clarification too. I understand. And, uh, no, I'm, I'm,

1326
01:21:50,167 --> 01:21:53,127
uh, I'm happier here tonight. And thank you very much.

1327
01:21:53,287 --> 01:21:57,545
Thanks. Thank you. Any further questions. Thank you very much,

1328
01:21:57,705 --> 01:21:59,545
Dr. Shaw. This is for being with us this evening

1329
01:21:59,785 --> 01:22:05,730
and thanks to you. That concludes our register delegations. Uh,

1330
01:22:06,210 --> 01:22:11,810
the next, um, item is, uh, consent agendas, uh, 10A.

1331
01:22:11,730 --> 01:22:21,314
Anybody want to speak to 10A. 10A. 10B. 10B.

1332
01:22:25,670 --> 01:22:34,906
Can see. Oh, Kevin Dugay. NC, Councillor Dugan.

1333
01:22:36,230 --> 01:22:39,853
Your worship. I trust you're able to hear. I'm sorry.

1334
01:22:48,461 --> 01:22:51,026
Sorry, Councillor Duge. We can't hear you. Are you able

1335
01:22:51,026 --> 01:22:55,229
to hear me now. Yes. Thank you. Your worship. I

1336
01:22:55,229 --> 01:22:58,829
spoke prematurely. I just wanted to, uh, advise counsel that

1337
01:22:58,909 --> 01:23:02,269
I have a conflict with item 10i. I jumped the

1338
01:23:02,269 --> 01:23:05,069
gun in part in this queue, but I just want

1339
01:23:04,989 --> 01:23:09,229
to ensure that was identified as part of the, uh,

1340
01:23:10,109 --> 01:23:13,309
agenda and moreover, I have a funary interest on them's

1341
01:23:13,869 --> 01:23:18,644
10i and 14. If they are interrelated. Thank you. Uh,

1342
01:23:18,724 --> 01:23:22,166
but nothing on 10 C. No, that is correct. No

1343
01:23:23,766 --> 01:23:31,741
10 D. 10 E. 10 F.

1344
01:23:36,621 --> 01:23:45,308
10 G. 10 H. 10 Eyes have been separated out

1345
01:23:45,388 --> 01:23:53,918
because of the two decorations. 10 J. 10 K.

1346
01:23:55,182 --> 01:24:00,297
Okay. 10 K. Sorry, been separated out. Council Rail 10

1347
01:24:00,457 --> 01:24:08,469
K. Okay. 10 L. 10 L separated. Out.

1348
01:24:10,721 --> 01:24:11,281
10 M.

1349
01:24:29,815 --> 01:24:38,220
Q. 10 Q. 10 are. 10. R. Okay. So if

1350
01:24:38,300 --> 01:24:41,340
I get somebody to move 10 A B C D

1351
01:24:42,300 --> 01:24:47,980
E F G H L or sorry M N O

1352
01:24:48,140 --> 01:24:54,570
P O P. Councillor Purnell a seconder. Councillor Crowley. We'll

1353
01:24:54,570 --> 01:25:01,606
go to a vote. No 10 K. Is on the

1354
01:25:01,686 --> 01:25:11,523
consent list. Yeah. Correct. That's correct. It's Bill dually move.

1355
01:25:11,443 --> 01:25:18,110
We'll go to a vote. We got a seconder Wisconsin

1356
01:25:18,190 --> 01:25:21,058
Crowley. Councilor Purnell Councillor Crown.

1357
01:25:57,100 --> 01:26:03,359
Carried. 10 eye. Someone separated that one out. That's. Okay.

1358
01:26:04,700 --> 01:26:07,500
It's been we have a declaration of purely interest there

1359
01:26:07,580 --> 01:26:09,660
has been separated out. Somebody like to move in second

1360
01:26:09,820 --> 01:26:12,300
at Councillor Purdown. Councillor Baldwin will go to a vote.

1361
01:26:39,527 --> 01:26:42,167
And that's carried with the, uh, two conflicts duly noted.

1362
01:26:43,116 --> 01:26:48,011
The next item is 10 J. Councillor Hankey, please. Thank

1363
01:26:48,011 --> 01:26:50,731
you very much for worship. Um, I have a feeling

1364
01:26:50,811 --> 01:26:53,051
we're going to discuss this a lot, but I'd like

1365
01:26:53,051 --> 01:26:55,531
to propose an amendment that I'd like to get out

1366
01:26:56,011 --> 01:26:58,731
so we can discuss it and then talk to it

1367
01:26:58,731 --> 01:27:03,531
afterwards. Um, it's to change the number of speakers or

1368
01:27:03,691 --> 01:27:09,749
item on the registered agenda. I could do in need

1369
01:27:09,829 --> 01:27:12,709
a seconder for that. You do. Councillor Burke. Are you.

1370
01:27:15,398 --> 01:27:23,638
Four. Discussion. Uh, thank you very much. It was interesting

1371
01:27:24,118 --> 01:27:28,864
to hear one of the common themes tonight. Was I

1372
01:27:29,024 --> 01:27:32,704
don't think so much as timing as speaking to a

1373
01:27:32,704 --> 01:27:36,464
specific issue. Um, I happen to agree that I think

1374
01:27:36,864 --> 01:27:41,519
limiting it to 10 delegations across the board. I find

1375
01:27:41,679 --> 01:27:45,611
a bit too restrictive. I'd like to propose limiting it

1376
01:27:45,771 --> 01:27:49,704
to or opening it to four per item. Now we

1377
01:27:49,784 --> 01:27:52,264
all know as counselor sitting here that you're not going

1378
01:27:52,184 --> 01:27:55,920
to get a discussion on every item every night. Um,

1379
01:27:56,160 --> 01:28:00,800
it was, uh, Diane, Terry and Hale that had mentioned

1380
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,880
it. And subsequent speakers also. And I think that it

1381
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:08,880
is important, um, for the public to have their say.

1382
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:13,440
I understand streamlining things. I think most of us do.

1383
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:16,000
But on different items, I think it is very important

1384
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:18,720
that the public does have their say. So I'd like

1385
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,747
to throw it out there for discussion. And see where

1386
01:28:21,907 --> 01:28:25,100
we end up. It was between three and five. I

1387
01:28:25,100 --> 01:28:27,660
pick four the middle ground. It's up to all of

1388
01:28:27,580 --> 01:28:30,766
us. Okay. I have Councillor Burke on the amendment and

1389
01:28:30,766 --> 01:28:35,750
then Councillor Crowley. And amendment. Um, yeah, Merit. You're fine.

1390
01:28:35,670 --> 01:28:39,910
Marley through you. Thank you. And my counselor Crowley was

1391
01:28:39,990 --> 01:28:41,750
also going to move something similarly. And I think that

1392
01:28:42,310 --> 01:28:45,030
this is all just to demonstration around how good governance

1393
01:28:45,190 --> 01:28:48,230
works. You know, we're presented with some changes and we're

1394
01:28:48,230 --> 01:28:51,030
able to sort of, um, make those changes. And look

1395
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:54,150
what happened tonight. Look what happened tonight. We're actually adopting

1396
01:28:54,390 --> 01:28:56,390
a change that was presented to us by one of

1397
01:28:56,310 --> 01:28:59,240
the delegates. That came to speak to this. So that's

1398
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:02,760
a beautiful thing. Um, it, it shows that the process

1399
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,480
does work. And it feels to me like a good

1400
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,920
compromise. And it doesn't, it doesn't freeze anyone out from

1401
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:12,423
a specific item. Um, I'd like to also stick up

1402
01:29:12,583 --> 01:29:14,663
a little bit for our staff because it was implied

1403
01:29:14,743 --> 01:29:17,783
that, um, they're the sole reason that our agendas can

1404
01:29:17,783 --> 01:29:21,143
be heavy. Some nights and not heavy other nights. I

1405
01:29:21,223 --> 01:29:23,143
do believe that we could do some work to sort

1406
01:29:23,143 --> 01:29:26,663
of organize the cycle of what is on our agenda.

1407
01:29:26,583 --> 01:29:29,223
So we don't have such a misbalance. But I would

1408
01:29:29,303 --> 01:29:32,263
believe, and I understand that Stafford much in the same

1409
01:29:32,263 --> 01:29:35,223
position as we are as counselors, which is they're doing

1410
01:29:35,303 --> 01:29:36,663
their day - to - day work and then things

1411
01:29:36,743 --> 01:29:40,183
come up like five, five alarm thing fire type situations

1412
01:29:40,343 --> 01:29:42,663
come up. And they're also just doing their best to

1413
01:29:42,823 --> 01:29:46,343
respond, um, to the issues and the changes in policy,

1414
01:29:46,263 --> 01:29:48,423
the best that they can. Um, I do agree that

1415
01:29:48,503 --> 01:29:51,703
we could better streamline that process so that there isn't

1416
01:29:51,783 --> 01:29:55,783
such a misbalance. Um, but, um, this is, this is

1417
01:29:55,863 --> 01:29:58,663
just the culture we're in. And I think, uh, I

1418
01:29:58,903 --> 01:30:04,503
support counselor Heyckey's motion from, um, the delegates idea and,

1419
01:30:04,423 --> 01:30:06,743
uh, I think that's a great compromise. And it will

1420
01:30:06,823 --> 01:30:10,423
allow, it will allow, it will allow for items on

1421
01:30:10,503 --> 01:30:13,863
our agenda not to go without public input, which is

1422
01:30:14,103 --> 01:30:15,863
an important part of our process. So thank you, Mr.

1423
01:30:16,023 --> 01:30:19,864
Chair. I support the, uh, the amendment. Counselor beamer to

1424
01:30:19,864 --> 01:30:23,352
the bend of police. Thank you, Mayor Lowell supported as

1425
01:30:23,272 --> 01:30:25,912
well. I think it's a good compromise. The genesis here's

1426
01:30:25,992 --> 01:30:29,752
last term as Councillor Baldwin alluded to. It was unlimited.

1427
01:30:29,672 --> 01:30:32,632
And you would get 20, 30, 40 delegates. Sometimes you'd

1428
01:30:32,632 --> 01:30:35,192
have to go two full nights. At the end of

1429
01:30:35,192 --> 01:30:38,312
the day, we do have a duty to have efficient

1430
01:30:38,312 --> 01:30:41,192
meetings and move the city's business along in a timely

1431
01:30:41,272 --> 01:30:44,072
manner. However, the balance that we do need to, uh,

1432
01:30:44,472 --> 01:30:47,592
listen and give the constituents an opportunity. So I think

1433
01:30:47,832 --> 01:30:52,232
this is a good compromise. Kingston, just as an example,

1434
01:30:52,552 --> 01:30:56,393
has three delegates, period. Not three in agenda, three the

1435
01:30:56,393 --> 01:30:59,353
whole night, period. I think that's a little extreme. Um,

1436
01:31:00,153 --> 01:31:01,833
10 was what we came up with. But I think

1437
01:31:01,993 --> 01:31:04,953
this is a good compromise just through you to a

1438
01:31:05,113 --> 01:31:07,433
CO ray and a CORena. There's been some talk tonight

1439
01:31:07,433 --> 01:31:10,793
about the agendas and staff working to sort of balance

1440
01:31:10,953 --> 01:31:15,193
the agendas out and balancing contentious issues out. I know

1441
01:31:15,273 --> 01:31:17,753
it's easier said than done. And I think staff do

1442
01:31:17,833 --> 01:31:20,393
that anyway, but just to get you on the record

1443
01:31:20,953 --> 01:31:23,593
is that stat. Is that something staff will continue to,

1444
01:31:23,513 --> 01:31:27,993
uh, focus on to try to have balanced agenda. So

1445
01:31:27,993 --> 01:31:33,362
the contentious issues followed by a 20 minute meeting. Mr.

1446
01:31:33,282 --> 01:31:36,853
Rada, please. Through you, Mr. Mayor, absolutely. We will be

1447
01:31:36,853 --> 01:31:40,052
working on that. Thank you, CR. Renaissance. So Marilyn, I

1448
01:31:40,052 --> 01:31:44,532
think a fair compromise. It's what, uh, former mayor Terrion

1449
01:31:44,612 --> 01:31:47,012
came up with a great idea Diane. And we're here

1450
01:31:47,092 --> 01:31:51,499
to listen. Thank you. Further comments on the, uh, amendment.

1451
01:31:51,419 --> 01:31:56,127
Councillor Rial, please, to the amendment. Through the chair, um.

1452
01:31:57,971 --> 01:32:03,971
It's interesting that here were cherry picking stuff out of

1453
01:32:03,971 --> 01:32:10,080
a procedural bylaw. That was not written. Or any input.

1454
01:32:10,992 --> 01:32:16,510
From counselors. And I made it a furl last week.

1455
01:32:17,626 --> 01:32:20,835
That we do exactly that. So here we are going

1456
01:32:20,995 --> 01:32:26,050
to start picking apart. Gets in pieces of this procedural

1457
01:32:26,210 --> 01:32:31,010
bylaw, which should have been done before. And it became

1458
01:32:31,010 --> 01:32:34,827
here. And every one of us had an input. On

1459
01:32:35,147 --> 01:32:39,440
what we think the new procedure bylaw should be. I

1460
01:32:39,440 --> 01:32:43,383
didn't have any input. There was five people from staff

1461
01:32:45,063 --> 01:32:50,667
and two chairs. Well, the two chairs, their counselors don't

1462
01:32:50,667 --> 01:32:54,976
speak for me. I happen to be a participant in

1463
01:32:55,216 --> 01:33:01,549
this. This is my workplace right here. Why don't I

1464
01:33:01,549 --> 01:33:04,189
get a right to tell you what I think how

1465
01:33:04,269 --> 01:33:11,645
you should run this house. Or the people. So I'm

1466
01:33:11,805 --> 01:33:15,590
hearing the counselor making. Bits and pieces where we're going

1467
01:33:15,510 --> 01:33:18,470
to go instead of three and five, I'm going to

1468
01:33:18,550 --> 01:33:22,126
pick four. This all should have been discussed before it

1469
01:33:22,206 --> 01:33:26,126
ever came here by us. I'm having a problem this

1470
01:33:26,286 --> 01:33:31,166
because I was going to resubmit my deferral again to

1471
01:33:31,166 --> 01:33:35,890
go back and maybe we as counselors. Could find me

1472
01:33:35,970 --> 01:33:38,926
look at the procedure bylaw that we want. To run

1473
01:33:39,006 --> 01:33:43,526
our house. Not cherry picking and looking at this and

1474
01:33:43,606 --> 01:33:45,526
picking that apart and whether you should have a cell

1475
01:33:45,606 --> 01:33:47,926
phone or shouldn't you have a cell phone or you

1476
01:33:48,006 --> 01:33:50,486
should have instead of three and five, we'll have four.

1477
01:33:51,469 --> 01:33:54,429
All this stuff. That should have been long done debate

1478
01:33:54,749 --> 01:33:56,669
should have happened before it ever come here by us.

1479
01:33:58,869 --> 01:34:02,693
Not by senior staff. On my two representative enough picking

1480
01:34:02,693 --> 01:34:06,293
on them, but you don't represent me. My represent the

1481
01:34:06,373 --> 01:34:13,844
taxpayers would pay myself. So I'm going to reintroduce. And

1482
01:34:13,764 --> 01:34:17,204
I get a chance to deferral that I brought back.

1483
01:34:17,124 --> 01:34:20,445
I think there was six to five vote. And see

1484
01:34:20,445 --> 01:34:22,445
if I can pull it and go the other way

1485
01:34:23,645 --> 01:34:29,346
six, five in favor of a different. Councillor facility, please.

1486
01:34:30,856 --> 01:34:33,656
Yeah. I'm going to speak to the amendment and just

1487
01:34:33,656 --> 01:34:36,536
the amendment that that's okay. Yeah. Just to be amendment.

1488
01:34:36,536 --> 01:34:40,169
Thank you. Um, no, I, uh, you know this idea

1489
01:34:40,329 --> 01:34:42,845
was brought forward by a delegate tonight. And we're having

1490
01:34:43,165 --> 01:34:46,285
the discussion tonight and from everything I've heard tonight, this

1491
01:34:46,445 --> 01:34:49,645
is when we were to have these discussions too. So

1492
01:34:49,965 --> 01:34:53,005
I think, uh, four is a compromise. Uh, I think

1493
01:34:53,085 --> 01:34:57,405
it's reasonable compromise. And I'll, I'll definitely support it. I

1494
01:34:57,405 --> 01:35:01,405
mean, we all, I think are haunted by the BWXT

1495
01:35:02,445 --> 01:35:05,565
delegations. I think it was 54. I've tried to look

1496
01:35:05,645 --> 01:35:08,605
that up the other day. Uh, delegations. And yeah, that

1497
01:35:08,765 --> 01:35:12,605
becomes a little, uh, one extreme. And this other with

1498
01:35:12,685 --> 01:35:14,925
just 10 is, is another extreme. So I think this

1499
01:35:15,325 --> 01:35:18,845
is a reasonable compromise. And certainly willing to support it.

1500
01:35:18,765 --> 01:35:23,483
Thank you. Scounser facilities, Councillor Corley to the amendment. Um,

1501
01:35:23,963 --> 01:35:28,203
uh, thank you, Chair. And, uh, like, uh, my counselor

1502
01:35:28,283 --> 01:35:30,123
to the right had mentioned I was going to bring

1503
01:35:30,123 --> 01:35:32,363
something like this. So thank you, Dave, or we're doing

1504
01:35:32,363 --> 01:35:35,883
this counselor Yankee. And just, just to, just to quickly

1505
01:35:36,043 --> 01:35:39,963
address the, the, um, uh, contention that we have, um,

1506
01:35:40,923 --> 01:35:44,763
that we didn't all get input. And I, um, one

1507
01:35:44,843 --> 01:35:47,883
of the former speakers, Councillor Real made a fantastic point

1508
01:35:48,043 --> 01:35:50,843
that we didn't all get input on this. We didn't

1509
01:35:50,843 --> 01:35:54,283
all get direct input. We were all consulted and we

1510
01:35:54,283 --> 01:35:56,363
didn't come together as a big group and work on

1511
01:35:56,363 --> 01:35:59,243
this and try to mold this into what we want.

1512
01:35:59,563 --> 01:36:03,003
I do sort of, we did have a subcommittee that

1513
01:36:03,163 --> 01:36:07,163
looked at it. I did speak with, uh, counselor beamer

1514
01:36:07,323 --> 01:36:11,163
briefly, not anything official, but certainly like anything that you'd

1515
01:36:11,163 --> 01:36:14,123
like to see in the, in the procedural bylaw, we

1516
01:36:14,283 --> 01:36:17,003
had, you know, short conversation about it. Um, I think

1517
01:36:17,083 --> 01:36:19,003
that sort of how a subcommittee works. And I think

1518
01:36:19,003 --> 01:36:21,483
the fact that we are city council, I think this

1519
01:36:21,563 --> 01:36:25,403
is our opportunity to then look at this document brought

1520
01:36:25,403 --> 01:36:28,043
to us by a subcommittee that did fantastic work on

1521
01:36:28,283 --> 01:36:30,443
it, by the way. Maybe we don't agree on some

1522
01:36:30,443 --> 01:36:33,563
things. This is our opportunity to change it. Um, I

1523
01:36:33,563 --> 01:36:37,563
think that, uh, it's, it's the perfect time for us

1524
01:36:37,643 --> 01:36:41,243
to look at it. And maybe Cherry pick the odd,

1525
01:36:41,163 --> 01:36:45,003
um, the odd, um, line in the bylaw that we

1526
01:36:45,163 --> 01:36:48,523
don't agree with. Maybe we want more delegates. We want

1527
01:36:48,603 --> 01:36:51,323
less, whatever we decide, but that's why we're here. And

1528
01:36:51,243 --> 01:36:52,843
that's what we're doing right now is to talk about

1529
01:36:53,003 --> 01:36:55,803
that. So if we, if we want to fix things,

1530
01:36:55,723 --> 01:36:59,803
if the broken, then we have the opportunity now. This

1531
01:36:59,803 --> 01:37:03,803
is our meeting for it. So, um, thank you, Chair.

1532
01:37:03,883 --> 01:37:08,476
Thanks, Yorley. Councillor Letchica to the amendment. Uh, thank you

1533
01:37:08,556 --> 01:37:12,556
very much. You worship through you and to the amendment.

1534
01:37:12,476 --> 01:37:17,676
Um, I'd like to say that I appreciate, um, that

1535
01:37:18,236 --> 01:37:22,956
the tone and the thoughtfulness that, um, Councillor Heyckey has

1536
01:37:23,036 --> 01:37:26,076
used in bringing this forward that the listening and appreciating

1537
01:37:26,556 --> 01:37:28,876
with the public delegations to have, to have brought it

1538
01:37:28,956 --> 01:37:33,676
forward. And I really do the idea of compromising to

1539
01:37:33,756 --> 01:37:38,476
something like this. Um, is appealing. And I support that

1540
01:37:38,796 --> 01:37:46,236
idea. However, it resonates with me what counselor real estated,

1541
01:37:46,156 --> 01:37:52,076
um, around the idea of consultation on some level, you

1542
01:37:51,996 --> 01:37:56,396
know, at the beginning of our term and annually, we,

1543
01:37:56,556 --> 01:38:00,853
we meet about our strategic plan. We regroup about the

1544
01:38:01,013 --> 01:38:04,293
things that, that impact, um, how we're going to govern.

1545
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:10,399
Well, this has a significant impact on how we're going

1546
01:38:10,319 --> 01:38:13,599
to govern. And it sits in a similar place. And

1547
01:38:13,679 --> 01:38:19,439
so the fact that counselor, um, Crowley has stated that

1548
01:38:19,679 --> 01:38:23,039
he had a consultation with one of the committee. That's

1549
01:38:23,119 --> 01:38:26,479
great. But where we know that transparency is something that's

1550
01:38:26,559 --> 01:38:29,999
really important. I will transparently say that no one consulted

1551
01:38:30,079 --> 01:38:32,399
with me. I didn't know I was to reach out

1552
01:38:32,879 --> 01:38:35,359
to be able to do that. And I was surprised

1553
01:38:35,599 --> 01:38:40,319
by the, by the proposed procedure bylaw changes when they

1554
01:38:40,319 --> 01:38:44,014
came out in the agenda. We only had days to

1555
01:38:44,094 --> 01:38:47,854
look at this with a very meaty agenda to be

1556
01:38:47,774 --> 01:38:49,694
able to reflect, to be able to do our own

1557
01:38:50,014 --> 01:38:54,094
research. It's not adequate time. We haven't had the time

1558
01:38:54,414 --> 01:38:58,334
to talk together even about what the priorities are for

1559
01:38:58,574 --> 01:39:01,534
changes to our procedure bylaw. That is something that is

1560
01:39:01,614 --> 01:39:04,254
the purview of this whole council. And we didn't ever

1561
01:39:04,414 --> 01:39:07,614
take that opportunity. So the great deal that needs to

1562
01:39:07,614 --> 01:39:12,819
be done around inclusiveness. And consultation on, on common sense

1563
01:39:12,979 --> 01:39:16,819
things, like something that is so significant to our public,

1564
01:39:16,739 --> 01:39:21,429
to public voice is our procedure bylaw. If we want

1565
01:39:21,349 --> 01:39:24,629
to be a future prepared city, we need to talk

1566
01:39:24,789 --> 01:39:27,109
to each other. We need to trust each other. And

1567
01:39:27,269 --> 01:39:30,749
we need not to be impugning. By some of the

1568
01:39:30,829 --> 01:39:35,629
things that are coming forward in a proposed procedure bylaw.

1569
01:39:35,549 --> 01:39:38,989
So, um, you know, as much as I do support

1570
01:39:39,549 --> 01:39:42,989
what counselor Heyckey has proposed, I agree with the idea

1571
01:39:43,629 --> 01:39:45,709
that Council Real is saying, let's look at this together

1572
01:39:46,829 --> 01:39:49,389
for a short time. But to be able to have

1573
01:39:49,469 --> 01:39:52,109
the conversations given that we've heard from some of the

1574
01:39:52,269 --> 01:39:56,509
public. And we appreciate that in informing our decision making.

1575
01:39:56,509 --> 01:40:00,415
Thank you very much, your worship. Councillor Chica, I have

1576
01:40:00,735 --> 01:40:07,467
counselor Dugay Baldwin and Crowley. On the amendment. Councillor Dugay,

1577
01:40:07,387 --> 01:40:11,147
please, Councillor Dugan. Thank you. Thank you, your worship. And,

1578
01:40:11,067 --> 01:40:18,989
uh, fellow council members. Um, I, um, I've inclined to

1579
01:40:19,069 --> 01:40:28,175
support Heyke's, um, uh, recommendation. I do not, uh, note

1580
01:40:28,175 --> 01:40:32,655
that, uh, the four delegates that spoke this evening, um,

1581
01:40:33,055 --> 01:40:38,015
are very, very well versed in municipal procedures, municipal protocol,

1582
01:40:38,175 --> 01:40:44,005
delegation, uh, delegation related matters. What was it present this

1583
01:40:44,005 --> 01:40:48,691
evening. Were the other 80, 2000 members of our public?

1584
01:40:48,611 --> 01:40:52,211
But I do respect and listen very closely through the

1585
01:40:52,291 --> 01:40:57,491
input provided by the, uh, for dialogue. I have considered

1586
01:40:57,651 --> 01:41:02,132
the bylaw, um, in its entirety. I have no issues

1587
01:41:02,372 --> 01:41:06,132
with the mayor and the two committee chairmans who have

1588
01:41:06,212 --> 01:41:10,772
met with staff who have collectively advanced to procedural bylaw.

1589
01:41:10,852 --> 01:41:16,132
They have considered, uh, for example, the way our meetings

1590
01:41:16,212 --> 01:41:22,932
operate, um, efficiencies, effective communications that are like, and I

1591
01:41:23,172 --> 01:41:26,212
respect the outcome of their work and its evidence in

1592
01:41:26,292 --> 01:41:28,852
our proposed procedural bylaws. So I have no issue with

1593
01:41:29,652 --> 01:41:32,292
how we got here. And I do not, would not

1594
01:41:32,292 --> 01:41:36,532
support a deferral, but I do support Councillor Hankey's recommendation.

1595
01:41:37,577 --> 01:41:40,697
For delegates per item, um, is important. And what I

1596
01:41:40,617 --> 01:41:45,177
did here this evening, I believe is that, um, related

1597
01:41:45,257 --> 01:41:49,177
to delegates on statutory and budgetary items. There are no,

1598
01:41:49,257 --> 01:41:51,977
there is no limit on delegations. And that's very important

1599
01:41:52,537 --> 01:41:57,177
distinction to make. So I will support Councillor Hackey's recommendation,

1600
01:41:57,097 --> 01:42:00,537
your worship. Thank you. Thanks Councillor Gate. Councillor Baldwin to

1601
01:42:00,537 --> 01:42:06,638
the amendment. Two things. You worship. I will be supporting

1602
01:42:06,878 --> 01:42:10,398
the amendment and thank Councillors, um, Heyckey and Crowley for

1603
01:42:10,478 --> 01:42:14,276
bringing it forward. I'm wondering, uh, your worship of I

1604
01:42:14,356 --> 01:42:17,243
could ask the clerk a question. By all means, um,

1605
01:42:17,403 --> 01:42:21,963
as I referenced earlier in the meeting, um, uh, Diane

1606
01:42:22,683 --> 01:42:26,123
Tyrion and I had been, uh, on the procedural bylaw

1607
01:42:26,283 --> 01:42:30,283
committee meeting Mustafa four years ago, um, and we'd made

1608
01:42:30,443 --> 01:42:33,083
a few minor changes, one of which was to limit

1609
01:42:33,243 --> 01:42:37,083
the number of delegates to 10 per item. And that

1610
01:42:37,163 --> 01:42:41,563
was referenced earlier by Councillor Beamer. I'm wondering, Mr. Clerk,

1611
01:42:41,483 --> 01:42:44,603
um, could you explain for the viewing audience and those

1612
01:42:44,763 --> 01:42:47,083
in the chamber? And for those who are on council,

1613
01:42:47,003 --> 01:42:50,363
we're sitting here, what the process was for the working

1614
01:42:50,603 --> 01:42:53,331
group. To be able to come up with the procedural

1615
01:42:53,571 --> 01:42:56,851
bylaw recommendations that you have. Just a general overview of

1616
01:42:57,811 --> 01:42:59,811
the amount of work that was done. The research that

1617
01:42:59,891 --> 01:43:04,691
was done into other communities and other, um, uh, councils.

1618
01:43:04,611 --> 01:43:06,691
I just think that would be important information to share.

1619
01:43:07,011 --> 01:43:10,562
Mr. Clerk, if you could respond, please. Uh, thank you,

1620
01:43:10,642 --> 01:43:14,642
Mr. Chair. Yes. Um, typically the working group, uh, may

1621
01:43:14,642 --> 01:43:18,002
have met several times to convene and discuss procedural matters

1622
01:43:18,642 --> 01:43:21,762
as indicated. Uh, there was a number of staff conducted

1623
01:43:22,642 --> 01:43:26,082
research among our, uh, municipal peers just to understand their

1624
01:43:26,162 --> 01:43:29,282
procedure bylaws understand how they conduct business and to try

1625
01:43:29,282 --> 01:43:31,522
to get a sense of, uh, some best practices out

1626
01:43:31,762 --> 01:43:34,882
there. And those were, um, those were shared with the

1627
01:43:34,882 --> 01:43:38,363
working group. To then, uh, assist, uh, coming forward with

1628
01:43:38,683 --> 01:43:44,332
what you see this even. Thank you, uh, your worship.

1629
01:43:44,252 --> 01:43:46,652
I'd be, um, again, I'm going to support the amendment

1630
01:43:46,732 --> 01:43:49,969
and thank the councillors bring it forward. Thanks, Councillor Bellman.

1631
01:43:49,889 --> 01:43:52,689
Councillor Crowley to the amendment. Thank you, Chair. I just

1632
01:43:52,769 --> 01:43:55,729
wanted to clarify that my discussions with counselor beamer weren't

1633
01:43:55,969 --> 01:43:59,009
official consultations. It was just in the midst of an

1634
01:43:59,249 --> 01:44:03,409
unrelated conversation about who knows what. And it was in

1635
01:44:03,489 --> 01:44:07,261
passing. So thank you, Chair. Thanks, Councillor Carley. Any further

1636
01:44:07,661 --> 01:44:10,549
speakers, the amendment. We'll go to a vote. On the

1637
01:44:10,629 --> 01:44:10,709
amendment.

1638
01:44:28,602 --> 01:44:31,322
I just worried about the point of, uh, point of

1639
01:44:31,322 --> 01:44:34,762
information. Yes. Councillor Berg. I just, is there a, is

1640
01:44:34,842 --> 01:44:38,282
there an error in the, in the wordsmithing here? Because

1641
01:44:38,282 --> 01:44:46,160
it says that it will exceed for. Mr. Potts, please.

1642
01:44:47,867 --> 01:44:50,907
Thank your worship. Actually, uh, if I could take counsel

1643
01:44:50,987 --> 01:44:56,187
to section 33 of the draft proposed bylaw, 33 reads,

1644
01:44:56,107 --> 01:44:58,747
the city clerk made a client to include a delegation

1645
01:44:59,147 --> 01:45:03,067
on an agenda if. And so the proposed wording, uh,

1646
01:45:03,707 --> 01:45:07,419
actually matches the intent of the amendment. Thank you. Thank

1647
01:45:07,499 --> 01:45:10,438
you very much. Just wanted to make sure. The vice

1648
01:45:10,518 --> 01:45:18,925
counsel Burke. We're good. We'll go to a vote. On

1649
01:45:19,085 --> 01:45:19,485
the amendment.

1650
01:45:35,488 --> 01:45:38,288
And it's carried. The amendment carries Councillor Beamer. You're next.

1651
01:45:40,083 --> 01:45:43,909
To. The amended. That's 10J and a seconder for that.

1652
01:45:45,061 --> 01:45:51,059
Counselor Hickey. And we'll start the debate. Councillor Burke. Um,

1653
01:45:51,299 --> 01:45:56,244
yes, Marilyal. In terms of efficiency, I won't repeat what

1654
01:45:56,404 --> 01:46:00,164
I've said to speak out against what I feel is

1655
01:46:00,244 --> 01:46:06,399
not. Um, aligned with any sense or reason. Um, so

1656
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:10,559
I'd like to move an amendment. Um, on the member

1657
01:46:10,879 --> 01:46:14,239
section of the bylaw to change the wording from being

1658
01:46:14,399 --> 01:46:17,968
possession of to communicate through. And I'll just try to

1659
01:46:18,048 --> 01:46:20,448
walk. Do I need a second turn for that? Well,

1660
01:46:20,928 --> 01:46:24,740
we'll look see what we have. We eat one. Councillor

1661
01:46:24,820 --> 01:46:27,700
Crowley, seconder. Yeah. And so this is this, this is

1662
01:46:27,780 --> 01:46:31,700
also just in the spirit of, um, of, of trying

1663
01:46:31,780 --> 01:46:34,260
to make sense of something and considering the other side

1664
01:46:35,620 --> 01:46:39,380
and making some compromises. And what this language does is

1665
01:46:39,780 --> 01:46:42,580
it's very important. I believe that the, the debate and

1666
01:46:42,580 --> 01:46:46,100
the talk around how we communicate has been not very

1667
01:46:46,180 --> 01:46:50,340
focused actually. And you have to really read the bylaw.

1668
01:46:50,260 --> 01:46:53,140
Like Commissioner Potts just corrected me on what, what we

1669
01:46:53,220 --> 01:46:57,700
voted on is, is, is also about what precedes it.

1670
01:46:57,620 --> 01:47:00,500
Right. So in this section that we're voting on, that

1671
01:47:00,580 --> 01:47:05,780
bans, the possession of electronic devices bans the possession of

1672
01:47:05,940 --> 01:47:10,180
them, um, it's, it's really in the section about members

1673
01:47:10,820 --> 01:47:13,620
conduct at a meeting. And it's really in a section

1674
01:47:13,620 --> 01:47:15,860
that helps us to find that we as members of

1675
01:47:16,180 --> 01:47:19,540
council need to have our discussions be done properly and

1676
01:47:19,540 --> 01:47:23,367
through the chair. Meaning that it's out of order for

1677
01:47:23,367 --> 01:47:25,367
me to text Mary Leal right now and say, Hey,

1678
01:47:25,367 --> 01:47:28,167
can you come to me first on, on item 10

1679
01:47:28,487 --> 01:47:31,913
J, you know, that should be done. When he gets

1680
01:47:31,993 --> 01:47:34,233
to that item 10J on the agenda. And I can

1681
01:47:34,233 --> 01:47:35,753
put my hand up. That's the fair way to do

1682
01:47:35,753 --> 01:47:40,953
it. So my stipulation and my changing of the wording,

1683
01:47:40,873 --> 01:47:43,673
um, is really about the whole section on how we

1684
01:47:44,073 --> 01:47:46,953
as members are supposed to function. And is changing the

1685
01:47:47,113 --> 01:47:51,583
final caveat section E. To say, which currently says not

1686
01:47:51,823 --> 01:47:55,183
being a possession of any electronic device that could facilitate

1687
01:47:55,423 --> 01:48:00,063
a communication. It says much like the, the, the sentence

1688
01:48:00,063 --> 01:48:03,823
before it, which says not communicate, accept and pursuant to

1689
01:48:03,903 --> 01:48:09,621
direction of the chair. Until it's his turn. It gives

1690
01:48:09,781 --> 01:48:12,341
me the option as a grown man to understand the

1691
01:48:12,501 --> 01:48:16,652
rule. And so I am changing the wording, which would

1692
01:48:16,812 --> 01:48:19,132
allow us if we need to have our personal cell

1693
01:48:19,132 --> 01:48:23,212
phones on us, but it will very clearly and straightforwardly

1694
01:48:23,292 --> 01:48:26,456
stipulate that we are not to communicate. On that device

1695
01:48:26,696 --> 01:48:30,056
to facilitate a communication that does not comply with paragraph

1696
01:48:30,296 --> 01:48:35,896
D. Straightforward. I think it solves the problem that that

1697
01:48:35,976 --> 01:48:38,216
staffer trying to solve in a much more realistic way

1698
01:48:38,296 --> 01:48:41,176
that we're able to follow. We have proven this whole

1699
01:48:41,256 --> 01:48:44,456
term that we're able to follow the rules here. We

1700
01:48:44,696 --> 01:48:48,536
have no, we have no open files from the ombudsman

1701
01:48:48,616 --> 01:48:51,016
on our conduct in terms of how we function at

1702
01:48:51,016 --> 01:48:54,296
a meeting. And if, if staff wants to stipulate how

1703
01:48:54,456 --> 01:48:58,376
we use our, our personal devices at the meeting, then

1704
01:48:58,696 --> 01:49:01,736
this is also accomplished with my change. It just limits

1705
01:49:01,816 --> 01:49:04,376
the very awkward thing of, of the chairs having to

1706
01:49:04,616 --> 01:49:06,885
police, what I'm going to do with my phone. And

1707
01:49:06,965 --> 01:49:09,205
that will be an awkward situation. I'm telling you, that

1708
01:49:09,205 --> 01:49:11,925
will be an awkward situation. So this negates all of

1709
01:49:11,845 --> 01:49:14,325
that. It is just, it is putting the onus on

1710
01:49:14,325 --> 01:49:16,725
us to follow the rules. And it doesn't take these

1711
01:49:17,125 --> 01:49:20,405
drastic steps that are being proposed that no other municipality,

1712
01:49:20,325 --> 01:49:23,685
including the municipalities that were consulted in the report are

1713
01:49:23,845 --> 01:49:28,085
taking this wording alliance much more closely with how other

1714
01:49:29,285 --> 01:49:33,285
municipalities govern communications out of meeting. So just to be

1715
01:49:33,285 --> 01:49:36,805
clear, I'm changing, I'm taking out the idea of not

1716
01:49:37,125 --> 01:49:40,085
to be in possession of. And I'm asking for us

1717
01:49:40,485 --> 01:49:44,725
to not communicate through an electronic device. And that includes

1718
01:49:44,885 --> 01:49:49,923
this electronic device. Which I'm still unclear how that's going

1719
01:49:49,843 --> 01:49:53,123
to be police. Because to me, that this, this falls

1720
01:49:53,123 --> 01:49:55,443
under the definition as the bylaw is written as an

1721
01:49:55,443 --> 01:49:59,686
electronic device. So. I'll take a breath. So what does

1722
01:49:59,686 --> 01:50:05,895
the microphone? So, um, so listen. What I'm, what I'm

1723
01:50:05,975 --> 01:50:08,615
proposing is just a simple word change that allows us

1724
01:50:08,695 --> 01:50:12,756
to follow. What is in this section, which relates to

1725
01:50:12,916 --> 01:50:16,196
how we conduct ourselves at this meeting and advises us

1726
01:50:16,196 --> 01:50:18,596
to communicate through the chair when it's our turn. Thank

1727
01:50:18,596 --> 01:50:23,115
you very much. Mr. Potts, please. And then counselors Crowley

1728
01:50:23,435 --> 01:50:26,155
Lachico Ria. Mr. Pods, please. Sir, Mr. Lee, I don't

1729
01:50:26,155 --> 01:50:27,835
have a question for Mr. Paws. Thank you very much.

1730
01:50:28,475 --> 01:50:30,875
But he put his hand up to provide some clarity,

1731
01:50:30,795 --> 01:50:36,875
Mr. Potts. No. In assist if the question, your worship.

1732
01:50:36,795 --> 01:50:42,332
Okay. Councillor Crowley. Then. Um. Thank you, Chair. I think

1733
01:50:42,412 --> 01:50:47,452
one of the delegates, they came up and I apologies.

1734
01:50:47,372 --> 01:50:49,612
I'm not sure who said it, but they were, uh,

1735
01:50:49,852 --> 01:50:52,412
mentioning how they think that the council business that's done

1736
01:50:53,052 --> 01:50:56,956
behind the scenes. And they were saying, Oh, I, you

1737
01:50:56,876 --> 01:50:59,276
know, people come out and they're all they come out

1738
01:50:59,516 --> 01:51:01,116
and they already have their minds made up and they're

1739
01:51:01,116 --> 01:51:03,916
already talking. And I think that part of, I can

1740
01:51:03,916 --> 01:51:07,836
understand part of the reason that, that this bylaw is,

1741
01:51:08,156 --> 01:51:11,565
is proposed. Because just like there's people in the community

1742
01:51:11,645 --> 01:51:15,725
that think counsel is, is colluding behind the scenes, behind

1743
01:51:16,045 --> 01:51:18,445
closed doors. Well, if I have my phone and I'm

1744
01:51:18,685 --> 01:51:21,325
texting counselor Baldwin and I'm saying you got to go

1745
01:51:21,405 --> 01:51:24,915
with me on this vote. Or I'm saying to Councillor

1746
01:51:24,995 --> 01:51:26,595
Beamer, yeah, are you, are you going to vote with

1747
01:51:26,595 --> 01:51:28,835
me on this? Or I'm talking to one of the

1748
01:51:29,075 --> 01:51:31,155
staff members and I'm saying, Hey, I'm going to ask

1749
01:51:31,155 --> 01:51:33,715
you this question. So this question is going to, this

1750
01:51:33,875 --> 01:51:36,515
will really help me out with that's all stuff that's

1751
01:51:36,595 --> 01:51:39,635
done behind the scenes. It shouldn't be happening on a

1752
01:51:39,715 --> 01:51:44,355
phone. I agree with counselor Burke that it does seem

1753
01:51:44,515 --> 01:51:48,115
like a little bit much that maybe we shouldn't be

1754
01:51:48,355 --> 01:51:50,115
in possession of it. Having it in my co -

1755
01:51:50,035 --> 01:51:52,995
pocket, having in my pants pocket, I mean really we

1756
01:51:52,995 --> 01:51:56,992
shouldn't be using it. At the same time. It's not,

1757
01:51:56,912 --> 01:52:01,347
um, there's no ability to FY that. If I'm doing

1758
01:52:01,667 --> 01:52:05,107
something that I shouldn't be doing with council business on

1759
01:52:05,347 --> 01:52:07,987
my phone and somebody in the gallery says, Oh my

1760
01:52:08,227 --> 01:52:11,027
gosh, you know what? I think what counselor Crowley did

1761
01:52:11,027 --> 01:52:13,427
was way offside. And I'm going to go to the

1762
01:52:13,587 --> 01:52:17,187
integrity commissioner. And we have to get FOI his phone.

1763
01:52:17,107 --> 01:52:19,107
Well, I did it on my personal cell phone. So

1764
01:52:19,747 --> 01:52:22,867
you're all out of luck. We need to ensure the

1765
01:52:23,027 --> 01:52:27,027
integrity of what we're doing here in council chambers and

1766
01:52:27,027 --> 01:52:30,067
doing it on my personal cell phone doesn't do it.

1767
01:52:29,987 --> 01:52:32,147
And I don't care if the young person out there

1768
01:52:32,227 --> 01:52:34,627
that won't run for council because, Oh my God, I

1769
01:52:34,867 --> 01:52:37,827
can't up my phone and with me in council. That's

1770
01:52:37,987 --> 01:52:40,867
not the point. We do council business here. We do

1771
01:52:41,027 --> 01:52:43,267
it in public. So everybody can see exactly what we're

1772
01:52:43,267 --> 01:52:45,827
doing exactly what we're talking about. They can hear the

1773
01:52:46,227 --> 01:52:48,627
questions that I'm asking staff. They can hear the questions

1774
01:52:49,027 --> 01:52:52,147
that I am asking of other counselors. That being said.

1775
01:52:53,556 --> 01:52:57,636
The proposed change that the counselor Burks making here still

1776
01:52:57,636 --> 01:53:00,436
doesn't let me use my iPad, which kind of irks

1777
01:53:00,436 --> 01:53:02,756
me because I use that for all my reports and

1778
01:53:02,836 --> 01:53:05,879
it saves paper and stuff, but still. It's a minor

1779
01:53:06,359 --> 01:53:12,408
inconvenience at worst. So I'm going to support counselor Burke.

1780
01:53:12,328 --> 01:53:16,808
I think that it's a worthy, um, uh, notation here.

1781
01:53:16,728 --> 01:53:19,208
I think it's a worthy change. But let's not fool

1782
01:53:19,368 --> 01:53:24,168
ourselves that this is not fascism run rampant by saying

1783
01:53:24,568 --> 01:53:26,968
we can't have a cell phone on our desk during

1784
01:53:27,128 --> 01:53:30,459
a meeting. Or it can't be using it during a

1785
01:53:30,539 --> 01:53:33,979
meaning. Excuse me. So anyway, that's my, uh, what I

1786
01:53:33,979 --> 01:53:37,557
get some clarity on what the amendment you're proposing. The

1787
01:53:37,637 --> 01:53:40,917
clerk has to, if you could just. Yeah. So, um,

1788
01:53:41,317 --> 01:53:44,277
Mr. Cleric, thank you on page 83 of the draft

1789
01:53:44,597 --> 01:53:49,717
bylaw. There's the section called members, which dictates are as

1790
01:53:49,717 --> 01:53:51,957
members, how we're supposed to speak. How are we supposed

1791
01:53:51,957 --> 01:53:56,308
to speak to one another. At a meeting. And there's

1792
01:53:56,548 --> 01:54:01,028
a paragraph E or subsection E, which says that we're

1793
01:54:01,028 --> 01:54:04,468
not to be in possession of electronic, an electronic device

1794
01:54:04,628 --> 01:54:08,228
that could facilitate a communication that does not comply with

1795
01:54:08,468 --> 01:54:11,428
paragraph D. Paragraph D talks about how we're only supposed

1796
01:54:11,508 --> 01:54:14,708
to communicate through the chair. So I am proposing that

1797
01:54:14,788 --> 01:54:21,952
we change. Um, the phrase not being possession of and

1798
01:54:22,032 --> 01:54:26,478
replace that phrase with not communicate through. So we're taking

1799
01:54:26,478 --> 01:54:29,358
out not to be in possession of and we're changing

1800
01:54:29,438 --> 01:54:33,984
that to not communicate through. Thank you. Thanks. And you

1801
01:54:33,984 --> 01:54:37,104
have a sector. Okay. Uh, counsel and her chica to

1802
01:54:37,184 --> 01:54:43,149
this amendment, please. Councillor Chico. Thank you very much. Your

1803
01:54:43,229 --> 01:54:49,309
worship. I have, um, an amendment to the emotion that,

1804
01:54:49,229 --> 01:54:52,509
uh, counselor Burke has put forward to the use of

1805
01:54:52,509 --> 01:55:00,477
the language. I'd like to add except for emergency. Or

1806
01:55:00,717 --> 01:55:06,038
family reasons. And, and I say that genuinely and from

1807
01:55:06,038 --> 01:55:10,918
the bottom of my heart, there are people that want

1808
01:55:11,158 --> 01:55:15,238
to engage in, uh, perhaps a campaign to run for

1809
01:55:15,478 --> 01:55:20,358
council in upcoming years who may have children who may

1810
01:55:20,438 --> 01:55:26,710
have a very ill or close to death parent. Or

1811
01:55:26,950 --> 01:55:31,224
loved one. Or someone who might be in crisis or

1812
01:55:31,464 --> 01:55:35,144
in need. And it is family status issue not to

1813
01:55:35,144 --> 01:55:39,624
be able to have two way communication for emergency purposes.

1814
01:55:39,544 --> 01:55:43,544
And, and, and there are single parents with infants who

1815
01:55:43,704 --> 01:55:48,584
should not be excluded for participating in municipal government because

1816
01:55:48,584 --> 01:55:51,064
they are not allowed to have a cell phone on

1817
01:55:51,144 --> 01:55:55,784
their body. Should there be some reason that they need

1818
01:55:55,704 --> 01:55:59,842
to be reached. So this is, this is an issue

1819
01:56:00,482 --> 01:56:05,202
that has to do with, uh, the occupational health and

1820
01:56:05,202 --> 01:56:08,562
safety act. I mentioned the labor code last week. This,

1821
01:56:08,642 --> 01:56:11,442
this is on that level. And it's a human rights

1822
01:56:11,442 --> 01:56:15,762
issue based on family status. And I think that language

1823
01:56:15,922 --> 01:56:19,202
would be really important. I agree. If we want to

1824
01:56:20,562 --> 01:56:25,042
lift up professionalism and communication. And that's the mode of

1825
01:56:25,122 --> 01:56:29,202
behind this, then let's just change the language from not

1826
01:56:29,362 --> 01:56:32,482
being possession of. And I can support what, uh, Councillor

1827
01:56:32,562 --> 01:56:36,162
Burke is bringing forward around communication. Uh, of a nature

1828
01:56:36,402 --> 01:56:39,602
that is work related. Thank you very much. Councillor Burke,

1829
01:56:39,522 --> 01:56:42,562
Councillor Crowley. There is an amendment. Are you, uh, okay

1830
01:56:42,962 --> 01:56:46,162
with the, uh, proposed word counselor La Chica just to

1831
01:56:46,242 --> 01:56:53,509
include it in a. Cancer. Yes. Go ahead.

1832
01:57:00,145 --> 01:57:03,505
Yeah. We're dealing with the amendment to the amendment. So

1833
01:57:03,585 --> 01:57:06,065
I have a new speakers list to the event. You'll

1834
01:57:06,145 --> 01:57:10,667
want to speak to the amendment. Okay. Just one moment,

1835
01:57:10,587 --> 01:57:12,267
Councillor, Kelsey Real. Do you want to speak to the

1836
01:57:12,347 --> 01:57:14,347
amendment to the amendment? I don't want to lose anybody

1837
01:57:14,587 --> 01:57:19,737
here. Well, this is around about way. Of supporting him.

1838
01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:23,760
The comments I'm going to make is if we would

1839
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:28,160
have gathered together to talk about this and cell phones,

1840
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:33,535
I have to declare a disability. Because my cell phone

1841
01:57:33,695 --> 01:57:39,600
is hooked to my hearing aids. So nobody asked me

1842
01:57:40,640 --> 01:57:45,920
and nobody that made this motion or this procedural bylaw

1843
01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:50,240
here. But I have to declare that I have a

1844
01:57:50,160 --> 01:57:53,471
disability. That's, I shouldn't have to do that. If we

1845
01:57:53,631 --> 01:57:57,151
would have all collectively got together and talked about the

1846
01:57:57,471 --> 01:57:59,391
changes that pleasure bylaw, I just want to get back

1847
01:57:59,631 --> 01:58:04,271
to the amendment. But I mean, he's making another cherry

1848
01:58:04,351 --> 01:58:08,965
picking something and making amendment. The I have to wear.

1849
01:58:10,397 --> 01:58:14,317
My cell phone or my hearing aids because it is

1850
01:58:14,397 --> 01:58:17,437
a device for me for volume control and other things

1851
01:58:17,677 --> 01:58:22,941
with my hearing aid. We're therefore. The cell phone should

1852
01:58:22,941 --> 01:58:24,701
be allowed in this room. I don't know if anybody

1853
01:58:24,861 --> 01:58:27,215
else has that. But it's on mine and I'm not

1854
01:58:27,215 --> 01:58:30,015
going to ask you and I'm not going to ask

1855
01:58:30,415 --> 01:58:31,855
the chairs if it's all right for me to have

1856
01:58:31,935 --> 01:58:34,095
a cell phone. We're just speaking to the amendment to

1857
01:58:34,095 --> 01:58:38,175
the amendment. Yeah. But the whole thing, the debate here

1858
01:58:38,655 --> 01:58:41,656
about cell phone. We're going to order. If I may

1859
01:58:42,136 --> 01:58:46,376
your worship. Yes. Um, thank you. Um, to, to counselor,

1860
01:58:46,296 --> 01:58:48,856
um, Riel's point. And I meant to add this as

1861
01:58:48,776 --> 01:58:53,896
well accessibility. Absolutely. Family status and accessibility issues. Thank you.

1862
01:58:57,371 --> 01:59:04,321
Mr. Clerk, we just. Did you have a. We got

1863
01:59:04,561 --> 01:59:08,641
a counselor Burke moved amendment to the amendment. And Councillor

1864
01:59:08,801 --> 01:59:13,922
Crowley second, the amendment to the amendment. Earn Councillor, sorry,

1865
01:59:13,922 --> 01:59:20,743
Councillor Chico. Okay. Okay. You want to speak to the

1866
01:59:20,743 --> 01:59:24,979
amendment to the amendment. Mr. Mayor, I'll just be brief,

1867
01:59:24,899 --> 01:59:26,812
but this is what I was trying. This is just

1868
01:59:26,892 --> 01:59:28,332
what I was trying to say when I feel like

1869
01:59:28,492 --> 01:59:30,812
we're getting off track because we're talking about how we're

1870
01:59:30,812 --> 01:59:33,772
supposed to do city business. We're really talking about stuff

1871
01:59:34,012 --> 01:59:37,052
that, that falls under our code of conduct. We have

1872
01:59:37,372 --> 01:59:42,812
a separate code of conduct that governs what Howard's supposed

1873
01:59:42,892 --> 01:59:45,292
to act as city councillors in terms of how we're

1874
01:59:45,372 --> 01:59:49,372
supposed to do business. This is the procedural bylaw. Okay.

1875
01:59:49,612 --> 01:59:52,812
This is the procedural bylaw, which is about the procedure

1876
01:59:53,132 --> 01:59:56,332
of how these meetings are run. General committee and council.

1877
01:59:56,252 --> 02:00:00,252
And so therefore, I kind of did a hot second

1878
02:00:00,332 --> 02:00:02,996
take here. I think the line that we're all up

1879
02:00:03,156 --> 02:00:06,916
in arm is about only applies to this meeting and

1880
02:00:06,996 --> 02:00:08,996
how we communicate with each other in the chair because

1881
02:00:08,996 --> 02:00:12,116
that's how the previous, that's what the previous bullet points

1882
02:00:12,996 --> 02:00:16,116
reference. So I support the amendment to the amendment, but

1883
02:00:16,276 --> 02:00:19,156
I actually don't think it's necessary because I believe it's

1884
02:00:19,316 --> 02:00:22,916
just not asking us. I believe my solution to say

1885
02:00:23,236 --> 02:00:26,116
not communicate through would be enough. It would still allow

1886
02:00:26,196 --> 02:00:27,636
us to do what we need to do for personal

1887
02:00:27,796 --> 02:00:30,916
reasons or for note taking or for preparation in a

1888
02:00:30,996 --> 02:00:34,036
meeting on an iPad. Um, I believe that this section

1889
02:00:34,276 --> 02:00:36,916
is very specifically about how we're supposed to communicate with

1890
02:00:37,236 --> 02:00:40,116
one another at a council meeting. And as, as making

1891
02:00:40,116 --> 02:00:42,596
sure that we don't communicate with one another at a

1892
02:00:42,676 --> 02:00:45,796
council meeting, besides through the chair. And in the way

1893
02:00:45,876 --> 02:00:49,236
that the subsequent bullet points in that member section lay

1894
02:00:49,236 --> 02:00:53,156
it out. So I think that I will support the

1895
02:00:53,156 --> 02:00:55,236
amendment to the amendment, but I don't, I don't actually

1896
02:00:55,316 --> 02:00:59,476
think it's necessary in reading the whole subsection. Um, because

1897
02:00:59,556 --> 02:01:02,516
it's very specifically around how we're supposed to communicate with

1898
02:01:02,676 --> 02:01:07,059
each other in the chair. Thank you. To the amendment

1899
02:01:07,299 --> 02:01:10,339
to the amendment, please amendment. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm also

1900
02:01:10,419 --> 02:01:14,419
going to agree with, um, Councillor Burke that I don't

1901
02:01:14,499 --> 02:01:17,539
think it's necessary because I think it sort of encapsulates

1902
02:01:17,619 --> 02:01:20,019
how we conduct meetings with each other. However, if I

1903
02:01:20,099 --> 02:01:23,939
may ask staff a question, go ahead. Um, Ms. McFarlane.

1904
02:01:24,752 --> 02:01:30,936
Hi, welcome. Um, regarding assistive devices, it's a really great

1905
02:01:31,256 --> 02:01:37,579
point that, that Councillor La Chica made, um. Does Ontario,

1906
02:01:37,499 --> 02:01:40,699
or sorry, is there already city legislation in place or

1907
02:01:40,699 --> 02:01:43,979
Ontario legislation in place that were super, that would supersede

1908
02:01:43,979 --> 02:01:47,179
anything in our procedural bylaw that would allow somebody with

1909
02:01:47,259 --> 02:01:50,539
a disability to not have to publicly state that they

1910
02:01:50,859 --> 02:01:53,339
have a disability. Somebody who's a counselor maybe who might

1911
02:01:53,339 --> 02:01:56,859
have a disability who is running for council and comes

1912
02:01:56,859 --> 02:02:00,139
on board and has an assistive device. Uh, they would

1913
02:02:00,219 --> 02:02:02,219
just be able to use it and not have to

1914
02:02:02,459 --> 02:02:05,099
go through any sort of hoops with the chair. They

1915
02:02:05,259 --> 02:02:08,299
would be taken care of through sort of some sort

1916
02:02:08,219 --> 02:02:12,539
of legislation. The farmer, please. Through the chair, there is,

1917
02:02:12,459 --> 02:02:15,659
uh, the GD2 accommodate under the Ontario human rights code.

1918
02:02:15,579 --> 02:02:17,899
There is a process involved in that. So they would

1919
02:02:17,899 --> 02:02:21,499
have to, um, disclose a disability of what the accommodation

1920
02:02:21,579 --> 02:02:25,019
needs are, but not publicly in this type of forum.

1921
02:02:24,939 --> 02:02:27,739
It would probably be between, um, them in the chair

1922
02:02:28,859 --> 02:02:31,259
or I'm not sure what the process with council would

1923
02:02:31,259 --> 02:02:34,699
be, but, um, if the bona fide, you know, medical

1924
02:02:34,859 --> 02:02:38,459
reason or family status issue or something that is under

1925
02:02:38,459 --> 02:02:41,419
the grounds under human rights, we would have to explore

1926
02:02:41,739 --> 02:02:44,379
accommodations. So that would not need to be in the

1927
02:02:44,539 --> 02:02:47,579
procedure bylaw. That's fair. And I don't think I'll, I

1928
02:02:47,499 --> 02:02:51,499
don't think it's required. Um, and I think having it,

1929
02:02:51,659 --> 02:02:56,059
having that amendment to the amendment for that. Yes. I'm

1930
02:02:56,139 --> 02:02:59,739
a little getting confused here. Um, having that specific wording

1931
02:02:59,899 --> 02:03:03,579
in this, this would, would maybe be, um, unneeded. It

1932
02:03:03,579 --> 02:03:05,099
would be a duplication of effort. And I don't think

1933
02:03:05,019 --> 02:03:10,379
it's required because I think legislation supersedes this. So thanks,

1934
02:03:10,299 --> 02:03:13,499
Jose Girley. Councillor Purnell to the amendment to the amendment.

1935
02:03:15,215 --> 02:03:18,015
Yes. Thank you. Uh, the previous speaker did ask, um,

1936
02:03:18,255 --> 02:03:20,975
an important question I was going to just confirm, uh,

1937
02:03:21,055 --> 02:03:24,815
through, through you, your worship, uh, two staff, you know,

1938
02:03:25,215 --> 02:03:28,975
how we would indeed handle, um, accessibility, which we must

1939
02:03:29,135 --> 02:03:32,655
do. Um, you know, that, that's a given. And if

1940
02:03:32,735 --> 02:03:36,335
there was a family emergency through you, I would totally

1941
02:03:36,575 --> 02:03:39,375
expect a simple communication with the chair and accept could

1942
02:03:39,375 --> 02:03:42,975
be made in such a situation. Um, but I also,

1943
02:03:42,895 --> 02:03:44,415
I mean, that's just, that would be the right thing

1944
02:03:44,495 --> 02:03:47,775
to do in that situation. Um, and there are ways

1945
02:03:47,855 --> 02:03:50,834
to reach us. There are ways to reach us for

1946
02:03:50,834 --> 02:03:56,594
sure. Uh, but through you, um, perhaps Mr. Potts, um,

1947
02:03:57,554 --> 02:04:00,114
or the clerk. I'm not sure who want, but what,

1948
02:04:00,114 --> 02:04:03,954
how would we handle an emergency situation? If something, if

1949
02:04:04,114 --> 02:04:06,594
somebody came to a meeting and that they had a

1950
02:04:06,594 --> 02:04:09,074
family member who was not well, and they actually still

1951
02:04:09,074 --> 02:04:13,514
came to the meeting, how would that work. Spots, please.

1952
02:04:14,395 --> 02:04:17,755
Uh, thank you, your worship. Um, that's specific. I think

1953
02:04:17,995 --> 02:04:22,395
I need to start with the, how one reads paragraphy

1954
02:04:22,395 --> 02:04:24,955
of section 18 and Councillor Burke has actually made the

1955
02:04:24,955 --> 02:04:29,515
point quite well, uh, and that is that, um, everything

1956
02:04:29,995 --> 02:04:35,035
about paragraph E, uh, related to electronic devices is subject

1957
02:04:35,115 --> 02:04:41,211
to the chair's directions. And so, um, I think this

1958
02:04:41,211 --> 02:04:43,851
point was discussed amongst the working group. I'm not sure

1959
02:04:43,851 --> 02:04:47,531
that it's been adequately made in, in this discussion. But

1960
02:04:47,691 --> 02:04:50,011
the intent of the bylaw, at least the way it's

1961
02:04:50,091 --> 02:04:53,851
been drafted is that the presiding chair may make a,

1962
02:04:53,771 --> 02:04:56,331
um, a direction of specific to a meeting or may

1963
02:04:56,411 --> 02:04:58,971
even have a standing direction that is published in the

1964
02:04:59,211 --> 02:05:06,971
agenda to the effect that, um, electronic devices provided at

1965
02:05:07,051 --> 02:05:10,651
the meeting may be used for the purposes of the

1966
02:05:10,971 --> 02:05:16,933
eScribe and for communicating with the city clerk. And I

1967
02:05:16,933 --> 02:05:19,653
think, uh, I'm not going to be specific, but my

1968
02:05:19,893 --> 02:05:23,973
understanding of previous term of council, uh, that, uh, a

1969
02:05:23,973 --> 02:05:27,653
member with a need was accommodated by means of electronic

1970
02:05:27,973 --> 02:05:33,653
means for, um, a differently abled reason. Uh, so the

1971
02:05:34,053 --> 02:05:38,693
chair's directions, um, uh, can extend, well, first of all,

1972
02:05:38,933 --> 02:05:43,253
there's nothing precluding a member from providing the city clerk's

1973
02:05:43,333 --> 02:05:47,333
contact information to be, uh, contacted in any manner of

1974
02:05:47,573 --> 02:05:52,293
emergency or urgency during, during a properly constituted meeting. And

1975
02:05:52,453 --> 02:05:56,373
members also have the right. If the, if the urgent

1976
02:05:56,533 --> 02:05:59,893
need that arises without of being inspired from an incoming

1977
02:06:00,053 --> 02:06:04,293
communication, a motion to recess is also, is always available.

1978
02:06:04,213 --> 02:06:06,693
But I think the most important point, having listened to

1979
02:06:06,693 --> 02:06:11,173
the debate is to go to paragraph 18d. The intent

1980
02:06:11,333 --> 02:06:16,373
is that the, that the presiding chair gives directions that

1981
02:06:16,613 --> 02:06:21,149
actually enable the use of electronic devices. But scopes how

1982
02:06:21,229 --> 02:06:25,423
there to be used. Thank you. Thank you, uh, very

1983
02:06:25,503 --> 02:06:29,503
much, uh, your worship and commissioner pots. Um, that, that's

1984
02:06:29,583 --> 02:06:33,023
exactly what we all need to understand. Um, is the,

1985
02:06:33,103 --> 02:06:37,103
the procedural bylaw is an overriding document, uh, on how

1986
02:06:37,263 --> 02:06:42,543
we will run our meetings in a very open transparent,

1987
02:06:42,463 --> 02:06:47,263
clear, uh, way. Um, with communications going through the chair,

1988
02:06:47,183 --> 02:06:51,343
any exception, um, or emergency or accessibility can still all

1989
02:06:51,423 --> 02:06:54,943
be handled, uh, those have all been contemplated and would

1990
02:06:55,023 --> 02:06:59,023
be accommodated without having to publicly disclose things or what

1991
02:06:59,103 --> 02:07:03,183
have you, um, there's no reason to, you know, throw

1992
02:07:03,343 --> 02:07:06,143
the whole body of work that's, you know, taken a

1993
02:07:06,063 --> 02:07:10,783
couple of years and significant, um, significant consultation with through

1994
02:07:10,863 --> 02:07:15,023
legal through the clerk's office, through the embudsmen, uh, consulting

1995
02:07:15,183 --> 02:07:18,863
with other municipalities. Um, and by the way, three members

1996
02:07:18,943 --> 02:07:21,743
of council on the working group and the two portfolio

1997
02:07:22,223 --> 02:07:26,063
co - chairs, um, so the, the procedural bylaw covers

1998
02:07:26,223 --> 02:07:30,223
all of that, anything exceptional that comes up can be

1999
02:07:30,623 --> 02:07:34,691
accommodated. Thank you. Um, I have Councillor Heyckey speaking to

2000
02:07:34,771 --> 02:07:37,571
the amendment to the amendment. Councillor Chica for a second

2001
02:07:37,811 --> 02:07:40,851
time to the amendment to the amendment. Councillor Hickey on

2002
02:07:40,851 --> 02:07:43,411
the amendment of the amendment. Yes. Thank you, your worship.

2003
02:07:43,331 --> 02:07:46,931
Um, we heard accessibility act as covered, but, uh, through

2004
02:07:47,251 --> 02:07:51,091
you to Mr. Potts, would we human rights was mentioned

2005
02:07:51,411 --> 02:07:54,451
in the labor code would be contravening any of those

2006
02:07:55,091 --> 02:07:59,348
policies with this spots, please. I think the director of

2007
02:07:59,508 --> 02:08:02,468
people and culture, uh, referenced a duty to accommodate, uh,

2008
02:08:02,868 --> 02:08:06,068
the need to identify the need for an accommodation. And

2009
02:08:06,388 --> 02:08:09,348
the example that's been provided, uh, that the city has

2010
02:08:10,148 --> 02:08:13,588
in fact done that for the purposes of, um, the

2011
02:08:13,668 --> 02:08:18,040
meetings that it conducts for a differently abled person. Uh,

2012
02:08:18,120 --> 02:08:22,440
so that, that would be the, the context for accommodation,

2013
02:08:22,360 --> 02:08:25,240
which is something that's contemplated by the Ontario human rights

2014
02:08:25,560 --> 02:08:28,920
code. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Mr. Potts. And Mr.

2015
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:34,200
Chair comment, um, this term of council, um, my father

2016
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:36,040
- in - law passed away when I was attending

2017
02:08:36,440 --> 02:08:38,760
a council meeting. And if you remember, I spoke to

2018
02:08:38,760 --> 02:08:41,640
you beforehand saying that I may have to run. I

2019
02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:45,640
didn't disclose it publicly. Um, and I had my phone

2020
02:08:46,280 --> 02:08:48,920
and my wife had said to me, I better get

2021
02:08:49,080 --> 02:08:51,400
there. And I left the meeting early. So the counselor

2022
02:08:51,480 --> 02:08:55,080
La Chica's point, it is a very legitimate situation that

2023
02:08:55,080 --> 02:08:59,560
can arise. Um, but I think I'm okay with me

2024
02:09:00,280 --> 02:09:04,680
going to the chair and mentioning it. And that's the

2025
02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:07,240
accommodation I would expect. And that appears to be the

2026
02:09:07,480 --> 02:09:12,920
accommodation that this bylaw does address. Thank you. Thanks, Her

2027
02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:16,280
Cherokee. Councillor Chica, second time on the amendment to the

2028
02:09:16,280 --> 02:09:21,080
amendment. Thank you very much, your worship. Through you, I

2029
02:09:21,320 --> 02:09:25,659
absolutely believe this language should be here. And, and I've

2030
02:09:25,739 --> 02:09:28,459
spent a lot of time this week researching, and I

2031
02:09:28,539 --> 02:09:32,299
mentioned earlier that I did call a Labor lawyer, very

2032
02:09:32,379 --> 02:09:35,099
renowned Toronto Labor lawyer who said there is indeed a

2033
02:09:35,339 --> 02:09:38,379
family status concern about something like this being written into

2034
02:09:38,539 --> 02:09:43,659
a bylaw. Because there are minors who cannot contact the

2035
02:09:43,819 --> 02:09:47,649
clerk by phone. Who may have had an accident, who

2036
02:09:47,889 --> 02:09:49,969
who may be in need of their parent for some

2037
02:09:49,969 --> 02:09:54,609
reason. And if I do not have a phone, the

2038
02:09:54,609 --> 02:09:58,513
child knows to phone my number. Not a clerk, not

2039
02:09:58,913 --> 02:10:01,553
through the red tape and administravia of what it would

2040
02:10:01,633 --> 02:10:04,993
take to get through to a parent. It is discriminatory.

2041
02:10:06,059 --> 02:10:09,739
To a counselor to not be able to have on

2042
02:10:09,819 --> 02:10:13,739
their body, uh, two way means of communication. And that

2043
02:10:14,299 --> 02:10:17,819
stated, if you read the language in the interpretation of

2044
02:10:17,979 --> 02:10:23,019
the Ontario, um, health and safety act, that language is

2045
02:10:23,019 --> 02:10:26,779
there. It must be two way communication. Paramedics are meeting

2046
02:10:27,019 --> 02:10:29,339
very acute needs. And this is what the labor lawyer

2047
02:10:29,419 --> 02:10:32,379
told me. Very acute needs of people in life and

2048
02:10:32,539 --> 02:10:37,579
death situations. And cannot be distracted, but they are allowed

2049
02:10:37,659 --> 02:10:39,739
to have a phone on their body in case they

2050
02:10:39,739 --> 02:10:43,339
have a personal emergency in their family or a need

2051
02:10:43,419 --> 02:10:46,299
of a child that's trying to reach them. This language

2052
02:10:46,539 --> 02:10:50,336
needs to be explicit. I'm not sure. And I wasn't

2053
02:10:50,496 --> 02:10:53,376
told by the procedures committee whether this was even vetted

2054
02:10:53,376 --> 02:10:58,496
through our accessibility office or through our accessibility staff. There

2055
02:10:58,496 --> 02:11:05,720
is not to have to disclose. A personal ability issue.

2056
02:11:07,094 --> 02:11:11,654
Publicly because we're being recorded to the chair is not

2057
02:11:11,894 --> 02:11:14,534
something. It's a privacy issue and it's not something we

2058
02:11:14,614 --> 02:11:18,454
should need to do. We don't have working phones for

2059
02:11:18,454 --> 02:11:21,414
counselors because we don't have offices or desks that are

2060
02:11:21,814 --> 02:11:24,854
two way communication. Nobody's answering phones in this building when

2061
02:11:25,014 --> 02:11:27,334
a council meeting is happening at 10 p. m. at

2062
02:11:27,414 --> 02:11:32,896
night. And we need for safety reasons as human beings

2063
02:11:33,856 --> 02:11:36,576
and a citizens of Ontario, like every other worker to

2064
02:11:36,576 --> 02:11:40,256
be able to have access to two - way communications,

2065
02:11:40,176 --> 02:11:43,616
direct communications from a family member or someone in crisis

2066
02:11:43,776 --> 02:11:46,816
that we take care of. And that issue was not

2067
02:11:47,056 --> 02:11:52,256
addressed earlier. Accessibility was mentioned and differently abledness. But family

2068
02:11:52,336 --> 02:11:55,696
status is a legitimate issue. We, I also contacted the

2069
02:11:55,936 --> 02:12:00,656
ombudsman this week. And the ombudsman absolutely told me with

2070
02:12:00,736 --> 02:12:06,026
the utmost clarity that there is no vetting. For procedural

2071
02:12:06,266 --> 02:12:09,386
bylaws, including any item like this that happens through the

2072
02:12:09,706 --> 02:12:13,706
ombudsman's office or has happened through the ombudsman's office. It

2073
02:12:13,946 --> 02:12:18,266
is beyond their scope. They don't provide legal recommendations or

2074
02:12:18,666 --> 02:12:23,226
bylaw creation recommendations to municipal councils. They only can give

2075
02:12:23,466 --> 02:12:27,546
information about what exists in other municipalities. We heard last

2076
02:12:27,626 --> 02:12:31,306
week that there is no other municipality that has overreach

2077
02:12:31,306 --> 02:12:34,426
to the point of saying the counselors are not allowed

2078
02:12:34,426 --> 02:12:36,586
to have a cell phone on their body. If we

2079
02:12:36,666 --> 02:12:38,826
need to have trust and more respect for each other

2080
02:12:38,906 --> 02:12:40,666
than let's just have it and agree that that will

2081
02:12:40,826 --> 02:12:44,586
happen. But let's not take away the human rights that

2082
02:12:44,586 --> 02:12:47,626
we have as individuals. And for those who will run

2083
02:12:47,946 --> 02:12:50,986
for council in the future, we don't need to overreach

2084
02:12:51,066 --> 02:12:55,946
like this. Let's build trust. Let's build optimism for those

2085
02:12:55,946 --> 02:12:58,506
who want to participate. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

2086
02:13:03,406 --> 02:13:09,566
Dugas. Speaking of the amendment to the amendment. Yes, thank

2087
02:13:09,646 --> 02:13:17,670
you, your worship and colleagues. Um, I appreciate the comments

2088
02:13:17,750 --> 02:13:23,918
from, uh, director and Farlane and Safaris. The duty to

2089
02:13:23,918 --> 02:13:28,558
consult. I appreciate the context of the, of that legislation.

2090
02:13:29,634 --> 02:13:35,554
Uh, colleagues, I haven't witnessed throughout this council term and

2091
02:13:35,634 --> 02:13:38,034
like Councillor Heyckey, I had a family emergency involving my

2092
02:13:38,034 --> 02:13:42,391
mother's health. Which, uh, I had to deal with while

2093
02:13:42,471 --> 02:13:47,262
attending council meetings. But my family in this case know

2094
02:13:47,342 --> 02:13:49,982
how to reach me not only through my first cell

2095
02:13:49,982 --> 02:13:52,702
phone, but if necessary, while some might view it as

2096
02:13:52,702 --> 02:13:55,182
being archaic, but they certainly could still send me an

2097
02:13:55,262 --> 02:13:59,742
email directly to, uh, by Cid email and staring in

2098
02:13:59,662 --> 02:14:03,910
front of each of one of you this evening. Is

2099
02:14:03,990 --> 02:14:07,577
a monitor in which those emails could be received. And

2100
02:14:07,657 --> 02:14:11,017
there are mechanisms for emergency procedures. I'm not making light

2101
02:14:11,097 --> 02:14:15,687
of the matter. But other than Councillor Hackey's incident, um,

2102
02:14:16,487 --> 02:14:18,167
I, there was a moment where I thought I might

2103
02:14:18,247 --> 02:14:22,821
have to also leave for emergency purposes. Um, I'm not

2104
02:14:23,061 --> 02:14:26,718
certain, I think we are over speaking the issue. Uh,

2105
02:14:27,438 --> 02:14:30,858
now. The fundamentally your worship, I know we're talking about

2106
02:14:31,098 --> 02:14:34,422
an amendment to the amendment. But I'm still struggling with

2107
02:14:34,822 --> 02:14:38,274
why. Any other than if it is associated with the

2108
02:14:38,514 --> 02:14:44,274
disability, why any counselor, when, why any elected official would

2109
02:14:44,354 --> 02:14:48,194
need to have a personal cell phone at their disposal

2110
02:14:48,674 --> 02:14:51,154
during a council meeting, I could see no reason for

2111
02:14:51,314 --> 02:14:56,312
it. For example, this evening your worship colleagues, I'm able

2112
02:14:56,312 --> 02:14:59,696
to attend your meeting virtually. I'm working from a city

2113
02:15:00,016 --> 02:15:04,738
assigned laptop. I'm working from printed agenda material. And I

2114
02:15:04,658 --> 02:15:08,018
was able to send a Microsoft note to the clerk

2115
02:15:08,338 --> 02:15:10,418
indicating that I was available for this meeting. That's all

2116
02:15:10,658 --> 02:15:14,969
public information. I did not need at all during this

2117
02:15:15,369 --> 02:15:17,769
for purposes meaning to make use of a personal device.

2118
02:15:18,615 --> 02:15:22,495
For any reason. I just don't know why. Um, why

2119
02:15:22,575 --> 02:15:26,895
it is appeared to be such an obstruction or an

2120
02:15:26,895 --> 02:15:29,455
impediment for other counselors to be able to carry out

2121
02:15:29,615 --> 02:15:33,186
their office. Those are my comments. Dein of order. Uh,

2122
02:15:33,266 --> 02:15:36,226
but I do recognize that there are circumstances where persons

2123
02:15:36,466 --> 02:15:39,586
with disabilities may need such a device. Thank you. Thank

2124
02:15:39,746 --> 02:15:45,211
you, Jerry. Thank you, your worship. My point of order

2125
02:15:45,371 --> 02:15:52,640
is that, uh, the previous speaker has just stated. That

2126
02:15:52,800 --> 02:15:56,320
it is an impediment. The use of the word impediment

2127
02:15:56,800 --> 02:15:59,920
to have a family status issue with, I explained in

2128
02:16:00,000 --> 02:16:03,840
detail that some of us, our parents of minors, young

2129
02:16:03,840 --> 02:16:06,974
children. And there may be future counselors that have babies

2130
02:16:08,654 --> 02:16:12,494
or toddlers or babysitters taking care of their children. And

2131
02:16:12,734 --> 02:16:15,694
I feel that that was disregarded and the use of

2132
02:16:15,694 --> 02:16:18,254
the word impediment for anything that has to do with

2133
02:16:18,894 --> 02:16:22,894
family status and accessibility is inappropriate. Thank you very much,

2134
02:16:22,974 --> 02:16:26,414
Mr. Chair. Point of order duly noted. Councillor Purnell to

2135
02:16:26,414 --> 02:16:28,370
the amendment to the amendment. And I have a question

2136
02:16:28,850 --> 02:16:31,570
Mr. Potts on the ombuds when Councillor pronounced that amendment

2137
02:16:31,650 --> 02:16:35,850
to the amendment. First, sir, um, Councillor Dugay was interrupted.

2138
02:16:35,770 --> 02:16:40,490
Well, he was speaking. Did he finish concluded? Okay. Okay.

2139
02:16:40,490 --> 02:16:46,435
Thank you very much. I got. Ok. So, so very

2140
02:16:46,595 --> 02:16:49,635
quickly, uh, where we are getting into the weeds here

2141
02:16:49,955 --> 02:16:53,795
that we need not enter into. One of the major

2142
02:16:54,035 --> 02:16:57,475
points of this new procedural bylaw is to really streamline

2143
02:16:57,715 --> 02:17:01,795
things down from 23 pages to 12. Um, we have

2144
02:17:02,035 --> 02:17:04,115
removed a lot of the references that were in there

2145
02:17:04,275 --> 02:17:08,995
before that really did duplicate other, uh, other legislation, including

2146
02:17:09,395 --> 02:17:13,155
the municipal act, um, the code of conduct, um, accessibility

2147
02:17:13,635 --> 02:17:16,435
legislation, F we've, we've heard, those things do not need

2148
02:17:16,595 --> 02:17:19,075
to be in the procedural bylaw. They are covered by

2149
02:17:19,235 --> 02:17:23,955
other legislation, uh, that is already there. Um, and would

2150
02:17:23,955 --> 02:17:28,115
override the procedural bylaw anyway. Um, so that's, I mean,

2151
02:17:28,275 --> 02:17:31,155
at the points are well taken. I understand that. But

2152
02:17:31,235 --> 02:17:33,875
all of these, um, all of these points can be

2153
02:17:34,035 --> 02:17:36,675
easily handled. We're not on an island in the middle

2154
02:17:36,675 --> 02:17:39,795
of nowhere. Um, and we, we do have to try

2155
02:17:40,355 --> 02:17:43,635
and remember one of the main focuses was to make

2156
02:17:43,715 --> 02:17:48,115
the procedural bylaw easier for everybody. Make our meetings more

2157
02:17:48,275 --> 02:17:51,075
transparent for everybody in the public to see what, what

2158
02:17:51,235 --> 02:17:54,435
is being said and what questions are being asked. And

2159
02:17:54,435 --> 02:17:56,675
the answers and all of that and not through any

2160
02:17:56,835 --> 02:18:00,595
type of, uh, devices, um, so I'll leave it at

2161
02:18:00,675 --> 02:18:03,235
that, but that is those are the, um, the important

2162
02:18:03,395 --> 02:18:06,355
points. Thanks. Thank you. Mr. Pods, I have a question

2163
02:18:06,355 --> 02:18:09,315
on the role. The ombudsman and his review of the

2164
02:18:09,315 --> 02:18:14,872
procedure bylaw, if you could respond, please. Thank you. Your

2165
02:18:14,872 --> 02:18:18,737
worship. We didn't ask the embudsman nor with the umblitzman

2166
02:18:18,737 --> 02:18:22,737
to offer to review a draft of a procedure bylaw.

2167
02:18:22,657 --> 02:18:26,577
Um, I will say that I reached out to wearing

2168
02:18:26,657 --> 02:18:30,897
my city solicitor hat, a colleague. I know several of

2169
02:18:30,897 --> 02:18:34,375
the senior colleagues in the office of the emblismen. It

2170
02:18:34,295 --> 02:18:38,535
was a consultation, uh, that shared with, uh, with Mr.

2171
02:18:38,775 --> 02:18:41,575
Kennedy, uh, it was under the heading of what I

2172
02:18:41,495 --> 02:18:45,495
would say informal, uh, it was a discussion about the

2173
02:18:45,895 --> 02:18:50,707
risk of the perception. Which is as important as reality.

2174
02:18:51,835 --> 02:18:54,715
And by that, I mean, uh, the discussion that, that

2175
02:18:54,955 --> 02:18:59,035
we have had internally here at the city, includes, and

2176
02:18:59,035 --> 02:19:02,075
this is for council to decide because the procedure bylaw

2177
02:19:01,995 --> 02:19:05,275
and how council conducts its meetings is not about its

2178
02:19:05,275 --> 02:19:09,611
relationship with staff. It's about council's relationship to the citizens

2179
02:19:09,691 --> 02:19:14,352
that it serves. And those citizens, the open meeting rules.

2180
02:19:15,731 --> 02:19:20,371
Uh, that included, um, after, uh, amendments to the municipal

2181
02:19:20,451 --> 02:19:24,131
act to make very clear about the specific grounds upon

2182
02:19:24,131 --> 02:19:28,771
which council could have closed meetings, but conversely the general

2183
02:19:28,851 --> 02:19:31,651
rule being that they must be open meetings and the

2184
02:19:31,651 --> 02:19:34,051
assignment to the Umboodsman a number of years ago now

2185
02:19:35,011 --> 02:19:38,451
of closed meeting investigations. The first foray by the embudsment

2186
02:19:38,771 --> 02:19:41,891
into municipal affairs, which is now broadened as council knows.

2187
02:19:43,292 --> 02:19:47,452
And the overriding policy objective and the drafting of the

2188
02:19:47,612 --> 02:19:51,292
bylaw being that the citizens that this council serves should

2189
02:19:51,452 --> 02:19:53,852
be able to believe their eyes and their ears when

2190
02:19:54,012 --> 02:19:57,751
they watch decisions being made. And that means that an

2191
02:19:57,751 --> 02:20:01,671
agenda that has to be published, it means open session

2192
02:20:01,991 --> 02:20:04,151
reports unless you're a specific reason to be able to

2193
02:20:04,631 --> 02:20:11,727
have a reporting camera. The procedure bylaw has implemented measures.

2194
02:20:11,647 --> 02:20:17,019
The council knows I've recommended previously. And that the emblizon

2195
02:20:17,259 --> 02:20:20,459
celebrates, uh, and that is, for example, the recording of

2196
02:20:20,539 --> 02:20:23,031
closed meetings. All of which is intended to give the

2197
02:20:23,031 --> 02:20:27,911
citizens that you serve, the council serves, uh, confidence that

2198
02:20:27,991 --> 02:20:29,591
they can believe their eyes and their ears in terms

2199
02:20:29,591 --> 02:20:33,863
of how decisions are made. So the consultation with the

2200
02:20:34,023 --> 02:20:39,783
embudsman, uh, was a brief written exchange. It was, uh,

2201
02:20:40,263 --> 02:20:46,983
it was, um, uh, it addressed the possibility. I mean,

2202
02:20:47,543 --> 02:20:52,423
we know this, but the embutment's office legal counsel also

2203
02:20:52,583 --> 02:20:57,303
observed that, for example, a series of communications could result

2204
02:20:58,183 --> 02:21:02,448
in, uh, in illegally closed meetings. If it involves the

2205
02:21:02,448 --> 02:21:06,128
majority of members of council, uh, a quorum, sorry, uh,

2206
02:21:06,608 --> 02:21:09,888
and a quorum could be something less than a majority.

2207
02:21:09,808 --> 02:21:13,330
If there's a declarations of interest. Not discussed with the

2208
02:21:13,410 --> 02:21:16,210
emblismen, but discuss with Mr. Kennedy as a related issue

2209
02:21:16,290 --> 02:21:19,250
that I don't think is being considered. And that is

2210
02:21:19,330 --> 02:21:24,770
that, uh, any device, personal or otherwise used during a

2211
02:21:24,930 --> 02:21:29,170
properly constituted meeting could produce electronic records that would be

2212
02:21:29,170 --> 02:21:34,047
the subject of a records request. Um, and, uh, there

2213
02:21:34,047 --> 02:21:37,478
is precedent. It comes from a municipality that I used

2214
02:21:37,478 --> 02:21:42,130
to serve. Where an individual member of council's personal email,

2215
02:21:42,050 --> 02:21:45,410
uh, was, was found to be in the custody and

2216
02:21:45,490 --> 02:21:48,690
controlled municipality. And that email happened outside of a properly

2217
02:21:48,850 --> 02:21:54,719
constituted meeting. Frankly, electronic messages during a properly constituted meeting.

2218
02:21:54,639 --> 02:21:56,044
I think would make the better case. But all of

2219
02:21:56,044 --> 02:21:59,084
these issues were within the contemplation of the consultation that

2220
02:21:59,164 --> 02:22:02,531
did happen with the Inglisman's office. Thank you. Thank you

2221
02:22:02,451 --> 02:22:04,611
very much. Mr. Boss, is there any more speakers? The

2222
02:22:04,611 --> 02:22:07,392
amendment to the amendment. We'll now go to a vote

2223
02:22:07,472 --> 02:22:09,952
on the amendment to the Christian Kennedy. Can you just

2224
02:22:09,952 --> 02:22:12,512
walk us through here, please? Cause I don't want to

2225
02:22:12,512 --> 02:22:15,404
visit anything. Uh, thank you, your worship. So just at

2226
02:22:15,404 --> 02:22:18,764
the moment, it's been, uh, moved by Councillor Chica and

2227
02:22:18,844 --> 02:22:23,947
seconded by a counselor Burke. That the amendment be amended

2228
02:22:24,027 --> 02:22:27,147
as follows. If it's my understanding correctly, it's to add

2229
02:22:27,867 --> 02:22:35,770
the wording to section. 18 E.

2230
02:22:38,131 --> 02:22:41,331
And the words are as follows except for family status

2231
02:22:41,651 --> 02:22:51,396
or accessibility purposes. So if that's the, that's the

2232
02:22:51,396 --> 02:22:55,309
correcting. Hold on. Is that correct. Okay. That's correct. Thank

2233
02:22:55,309 --> 02:23:01,256
you. Mr. Baldwin, please. At this point of order, but

2234
02:23:01,336 --> 02:23:05,176
I just like point of order. What counselor Parnell just

2235
02:23:05,256 --> 02:23:07,896
did whisper to you off Mike is exactly what we're

2236
02:23:07,976 --> 02:23:11,256
talking about here. This whole sec. Well, this whole section

2237
02:23:11,416 --> 02:23:13,576
is about how we communicate with one another around the

2238
02:23:13,576 --> 02:23:15,016
table. And then that needs to be done through the

2239
02:23:15,176 --> 02:23:18,866
chair. So. I didn't hear any wish break. So just

2240
02:23:18,866 --> 02:23:22,146
for the record councilburn. Councillor Baldwin, I did see your

2241
02:23:22,226 --> 02:23:31,568
hand. Councillor Baldwin. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, your worship. Um, the

2242
02:23:31,728 --> 02:23:35,343
question I have is, um. Are we to take this

2243
02:23:35,903 --> 02:23:42,223
whole procedural bylaw. The first amendment, the amendment. And then

2244
02:23:42,223 --> 02:23:46,611
there's going to be another one. Amendment. Um, are there

2245
02:23:46,931 --> 02:23:47,731
going to be any, is there going to be any

2246
02:23:47,811 --> 02:23:51,215
more cherry picking as we go along. Um, because I'm

2247
02:23:51,295 --> 02:23:53,455
reluctant to vote positively on this if it's going to

2248
02:23:53,535 --> 02:23:56,157
have an impact on the next piece. Or vice versa.

2249
02:23:58,045 --> 02:24:00,765
So it would be easier for me to see all

2250
02:24:00,845 --> 02:24:03,485
of the amendments and then vote on it as opposed

2251
02:24:03,645 --> 02:24:05,325
to doing this one. Then another one and then another

2252
02:24:05,405 --> 02:24:08,115
one. This is just from the personal perspective. So I

2253
02:24:08,195 --> 02:24:10,115
guess I'm asking the clerk. Is it better to do

2254
02:24:10,275 --> 02:24:12,755
that way or do we have to jump procedurally do

2255
02:24:12,755 --> 02:24:18,734
it this way? Mr. Clerk. Uh, thank you, uh, your

2256
02:24:18,814 --> 02:24:22,174
worship current procedure by law would direct that there's, uh,

2257
02:24:22,734 --> 02:24:26,983
one amendment permitted tune amendment. I'll go ahead and both

2258
02:24:27,063 --> 02:24:31,416
then. Thank you. And just for the record council work,

2259
02:24:31,336 --> 02:24:33,176
I was listening to the clerk because I asked him

2260
02:24:33,336 --> 02:24:40,044
for some clarification. It wasn't Councillor pronounced. Anything further on

2261
02:24:40,044 --> 02:24:41,964
this. We'll go to a vote on the amendment to

2262
02:24:42,044 --> 02:24:42,364
the amendment.

2263
02:25:47,378 --> 02:25:49,538
Councilor Dugay, we have an hour. We don't have a

2264
02:25:49,618 --> 02:25:58,762
vote for Bion. I'm having tech difficulties, but I will

2265
02:25:58,842 --> 02:26:04,719
return to eScribe momentarily. Okay.

2266
02:26:14,258 --> 02:26:17,777
And that's carried. Now we're going back to the amendment.

2267
02:26:19,247 --> 02:26:24,023
Mr. Clerk, please. Uh, thanks your worship. It's been moved

2268
02:26:24,103 --> 02:26:28,746
by Councillor Burke and seconded by Councillor Crowley. That section

2269
02:26:29,146 --> 02:26:32,355
18E be amended to replace the words. Not be in

2270
02:26:32,355 --> 02:26:39,373
possession of with not communicate with any. And of course

2271
02:26:39,453 --> 02:26:44,573
that's been subject to the amendment. We just, uh, just

2272
02:26:44,573 --> 02:26:48,278
voted on. Perhaps I can just clarify that wording with

2273
02:26:48,358 --> 02:26:55,511
the, uh, the mover. Councillor Berkeley. As soon as I

2274
02:26:55,511 --> 02:26:57,563
see it cast. All.

2275
02:27:05,871 --> 02:27:07,311
That seems, that seems fine. Thank you.

2276
02:27:26,645 --> 02:27:29,205
Sorry, Brescourt, uh, your worship. Would you like us to

2277
02:27:29,685 --> 02:27:32,586
then cast the vote for this. Is there any further

2278
02:27:32,666 --> 02:27:37,176
comments on this one? Most people probably spoke twice. Yeah.

2279
02:27:37,256 --> 02:27:39,816
Just, I'll just say quickly that to me, the real

2280
02:27:39,976 --> 02:27:43,656
game changer to this was reading, uh, page 82, the

2281
02:27:43,976 --> 02:27:46,676
section about members. And it's pretty self - explanatory. Thank

2282
02:27:46,676 --> 02:27:48,356
you. Thank you. We'll go to a vote.

2283
02:28:24,349 --> 02:28:29,868
And that amendment is lost. So now the main motion

2284
02:28:30,588 --> 02:28:34,188
as amended was moved by Councillor Bieber at Secretary Councilor

2285
02:28:34,348 --> 02:28:40,692
Aki comments your questions. Councillor Real, please. The main motion

2286
02:28:41,892 --> 02:28:47,629
that's 10J as amended. I am deeply concerned with the

2287
02:28:48,029 --> 02:28:55,214
recent changes to the council's procedural bylaw. While efficiencies in

2288
02:28:55,214 --> 02:28:58,621
council meetings is important. It should never come of the

2289
02:28:58,701 --> 02:29:06,358
expense of transparency accountability. Or meaningful public participation. What is

2290
02:29:06,358 --> 02:29:10,838
particularly troubling is the, that these changes were developed by

2291
02:29:11,238 --> 02:29:14,598
city staff without meaningful input from all of city council.

2292
02:29:15,983 --> 02:29:19,343
Despite the fact that the procedural bylaw governed, I would

2293
02:29:19,423 --> 02:29:23,513
like the officials conductor business and council chambers. Decisions about

2294
02:29:23,673 --> 02:29:27,710
how council function should be shaped first and foremost. By

2295
02:29:27,790 --> 02:29:33,798
those elected to represent the public. These changes restrict the

2296
02:29:33,798 --> 02:29:38,758
public's ability to engage with their elected representatives and limit

2297
02:29:38,838 --> 02:29:42,438
the opportunity for residents to be heard on matters that

2298
02:29:42,438 --> 02:29:47,509
directly affect their lives. Public participation is not an inconvenience

2299
02:29:47,829 --> 02:29:51,669
to be managed. It is the cornerstone of democracy and

2300
02:29:51,749 --> 02:29:56,195
local government. Council chamber should be a place where residents

2301
02:29:56,195 --> 02:30:01,977
feel welcome respected. And encouraged to participate. Reducing public input

2302
02:30:03,497 --> 02:30:08,057
rest eroding trust in municipal government and creates a perception.

2303
02:30:07,977 --> 02:30:11,737
The decisions are being made about the community rather than

2304
02:30:11,897 --> 02:30:17,841
with it. I believe good decisions. I believe good decisions

2305
02:30:18,081 --> 02:30:23,361
making is strengthening, not weakening by public scrutiny and engagement.

2306
02:30:23,281 --> 02:30:29,121
Any procedural changes that diminish the engaged engagement deserve careful

2307
02:30:29,441 --> 02:30:35,521
reconsirption broader consultation with council and meaningful input from the

2308
02:30:35,681 --> 02:30:42,035
public. So I will not be supporting the procedural bylaw

2309
02:30:42,035 --> 02:30:45,075
changes on that. And I think this, what's happened tonight

2310
02:30:45,715 --> 02:30:49,315
is cherry picking this. And Cherry picking that. And if

2311
02:30:49,315 --> 02:30:52,835
we would have had, and that's all of council at

2312
02:30:52,915 --> 02:30:55,715
open dialogue and how the procedure bylaws or how we

2313
02:30:55,795 --> 02:30:59,475
conduct our business on behalf of the public here in

2314
02:30:59,475 --> 02:31:02,309
our workplace, then we wouldn't be going through this. We

2315
02:31:02,549 --> 02:31:05,909
would have some procedural bylaws that account for everybody and

2316
02:31:05,989 --> 02:31:09,909
make this work. So thank you very much. Councillor Baldwin,

2317
02:31:09,829 --> 02:31:14,519
please. To the, uh, to the main motion as amended.

2318
02:31:14,439 --> 02:31:16,919
Yeah. As a minute, your worship. Thank you very much.

2319
02:31:16,839 --> 02:31:21,323
Um. Worship, I want to thank the committee and staff

2320
02:31:21,803 --> 02:31:24,763
or their work on this. I think Councillor Parnell alluded

2321
02:31:24,763 --> 02:31:26,923
to the number of meetings and the clerk to a

2322
02:31:26,923 --> 02:31:30,363
question I'd mentioned. Uh, listening to my, uh, my award

2323
02:31:30,603 --> 02:31:35,563
made here, um, I think the, the concern that the

2324
02:31:35,803 --> 02:31:39,643
counselor might have with respect to listening to the public,

2325
02:31:39,563 --> 02:31:42,363
um, we've demonstrated tonight that we have listened to the

2326
02:31:42,363 --> 02:31:46,557
delegates. And as a result of their delegation. Council sitting

2327
02:31:46,717 --> 02:31:50,225
tonight has made a change on the fly. Because we

2328
02:31:50,225 --> 02:31:54,570
have heard that. Um, with respect to the communication devices,

2329
02:31:54,490 --> 02:31:56,010
I believe we're in the, in the throes of making

2330
02:31:56,170 --> 02:31:59,770
that decision tonight. So, um, all the work that's been

2331
02:31:59,770 --> 02:32:02,810
done given the changes we've made and the dialogue we've

2332
02:32:02,810 --> 02:32:05,770
had tonight to worship. I feel comfortable in supporting the

2333
02:32:05,770 --> 02:32:10,863
procedure of I want. Motion as a medic counselor Burke

2334
02:32:11,103 --> 02:32:15,583
plays. Three Marilyla, a question to staff, please. You know,

2335
02:32:15,903 --> 02:32:18,303
the, the report, the staff report is fine. It's one

2336
02:32:18,303 --> 02:32:20,863
thing that goes in detail. It goes into detail around

2337
02:32:21,503 --> 02:32:25,503
the sort of justification and rationalization around creating the bylaw.

2338
02:32:25,503 --> 02:32:28,383
I'm looking at a draft bylaw that says, I'm not

2339
02:32:28,463 --> 02:32:32,463
to be in possession of any electronic device that could

2340
02:32:32,623 --> 02:32:35,823
facilitate a communication. That's the bylaw. That's his plan as

2341
02:32:35,823 --> 02:32:39,183
day. So how does staff justify us being able to

2342
02:32:39,263 --> 02:32:44,365
have this electronic device. And not another electronic device? Councillor

2343
02:32:44,445 --> 02:32:45,965
Burke, who do you want to post a question to.

2344
02:32:46,656 --> 02:32:49,456
No idea. Whoever can answer it. Well, we'll go with

2345
02:32:49,616 --> 02:32:55,934
Mr. Potts. Um, your worship. Thank you. Uh, probably a

2346
02:32:55,934 --> 02:32:58,414
version of a, of an answer I gave previously. But

2347
02:32:58,814 --> 02:33:02,574
you have to read you one should read paragraph E

2348
02:33:02,894 --> 02:33:06,574
in conjunction with paragraph D. It comes back to the

2349
02:33:06,974 --> 02:33:10,734
presiding chair's directions. It's contemplated that the chair will give

2350
02:33:10,814 --> 02:33:13,873
a direction. That members of council obviously should be able

2351
02:33:13,793 --> 02:33:18,712
to use microphones. The equipment on a desk. Microsoft Outlook

2352
02:33:19,032 --> 02:33:22,472
for the sole and eScribe for the purpose of, you

2353
02:33:22,392 --> 02:33:26,232
know, casting votes and participating in the meeting for communicating

2354
02:33:26,392 --> 02:33:32,851
with the city cleric electronically. And that's all accommodated. It

2355
02:33:32,931 --> 02:33:35,651
could be on a per meeting basis or probably more

2356
02:33:35,891 --> 02:33:39,891
efficiently and effectively if it were just built into the

2357
02:33:40,131 --> 02:33:44,691
agenda, uh, and that, you know, subject to the chairs,

2358
02:33:44,611 --> 02:33:47,731
different direction from time to time or additional directions as

2359
02:33:47,731 --> 02:33:52,376
circumstances warrant. Thank you. Councillor Burke further. I mean, I'm

2360
02:33:52,376 --> 02:33:54,776
just, I'm just, I understand that answer, but the answer

2361
02:33:54,936 --> 02:33:56,936
is not in the bylaw. So 10 years from now,

2362
02:33:57,576 --> 02:33:59,016
you know, it would be very tricky for a whole

2363
02:33:59,096 --> 02:34:01,976
new group of people and city staff to interpret the

2364
02:34:02,376 --> 02:34:06,616
bylaw, which clearly states all electronic advice devices. You know,

2365
02:34:06,696 --> 02:34:08,856
this is some of the nuance where, where, you know,

2366
02:34:09,256 --> 02:34:12,776
on one hand, we want transparency, um, and this is

2367
02:34:12,856 --> 02:34:16,136
a movement towards transparency. But on the other hand, um,

2368
02:34:16,936 --> 02:34:19,896
you know, the real gray area with this bylaw and

2369
02:34:19,976 --> 02:34:21,896
it reminds me of the gray area we experience with

2370
02:34:21,976 --> 02:34:26,153
our portfolio chairs bylaw. Which, uh, which guides your no

2371
02:34:26,233 --> 02:34:28,873
sort of referenced a couple meetings ago in his interpretation

2372
02:34:28,953 --> 02:34:31,753
of it. And he's a lawyer. So it's fine that

2373
02:34:31,753 --> 02:34:35,193
we have, it's fine that we have some clarification on

2374
02:34:35,193 --> 02:34:37,753
the fly. But to me, the thing that we're passing

2375
02:34:37,913 --> 02:34:39,593
tonight and the thing that's going to be said in

2376
02:34:39,753 --> 02:34:43,993
stone is the bylaw. And no matter how you package

2377
02:34:43,993 --> 02:34:47,433
it up, um, and no matter how you justify it,

2378
02:34:47,353 --> 02:34:49,033
at the end of the day, we're, we're putting forward

2379
02:34:49,193 --> 02:34:54,473
something here that says, uh, any electronic device. And it's

2380
02:34:54,393 --> 02:34:58,853
just, it confounds me. That, um, that this is happening

2381
02:34:59,173 --> 02:35:03,013
when it's really specifically talking about one thing to me

2382
02:35:03,173 --> 02:35:06,133
when I read this, it says all any electronic device.

2383
02:35:10,455 --> 02:35:15,304
To the main motion design. That counselor Baldwin. Councillor Chica,

2384
02:35:15,224 --> 02:35:17,784
please. Thank you very much. Your worship, Peth, for you

2385
02:35:17,864 --> 02:35:21,490
to counsel. We just, we just passed an amendment to

2386
02:35:21,810 --> 02:35:24,930
an amendment with a seven to four in favor of

2387
02:35:25,490 --> 02:35:29,970
acknowledging accessibility and family status as issues for having a

2388
02:35:30,050 --> 02:35:35,160
personal device. And so the conundrum is how then can

2389
02:35:36,040 --> 02:35:40,600
we turn the other way and then say you can't

2390
02:35:40,600 --> 02:35:46,402
have any personal devices, period. It's just, it's just oxymoronic

2391
02:35:46,482 --> 02:35:49,602
to me. I don't understand. And to me, it just

2392
02:35:49,602 --> 02:35:52,722
shows, shows us that we are not prepared to go

2393
02:35:53,042 --> 02:35:56,882
through and go forward with this proposed bylaw as it

2394
02:35:56,882 --> 02:36:01,922
is because there's conflict, um, in terms of the understanding

2395
02:36:02,082 --> 02:36:06,002
of, of, of what exists on the page of this

2396
02:36:06,242 --> 02:36:09,842
report. And what we desire in order to be equitable

2397
02:36:10,322 --> 02:36:14,482
and not discriminate against counselors. I would ask us, you

2398
02:36:14,402 --> 02:36:18,402
know, each one of us, how would we feel if

2399
02:36:18,482 --> 02:36:21,042
we could not be reached by our loved one if

2400
02:36:21,042 --> 02:36:24,003
one of them had a heart attack, God forbid. Or

2401
02:36:24,403 --> 02:36:29,071
had a fatal accident. This is not a situation where

2402
02:36:29,311 --> 02:36:34,751
we can expect others who would be dealing with that

2403
02:36:34,831 --> 02:36:37,951
situation to, to reach out to the chair of this

2404
02:36:38,191 --> 02:36:41,551
meeting, which changes as to whether it's general committee meeting

2405
02:36:41,631 --> 02:36:45,711
and planning meeting, that this is just unprecedented. It doesn't

2406
02:36:45,791 --> 02:36:50,591
happen anywhere. It defies the human rights code. And the

2407
02:36:50,831 --> 02:36:53,631
labor code of Ontario. So do we want to have

2408
02:36:53,871 --> 02:37:00,309
people appealing to those bodies because it's unfair. Every staff

2409
02:37:00,549 --> 02:37:03,269
member, every journalist in this room is allowed to have

2410
02:37:03,669 --> 02:37:07,029
one, two, whatever devices they want, but the counselors who

2411
02:37:07,109 --> 02:37:10,389
are doing the work of this municipality for their constituents

2412
02:37:11,109 --> 02:37:13,589
can't look up an article or can't look at their

2413
02:37:13,909 --> 02:37:15,829
notes that they took a couple of weeks ago because

2414
02:37:15,909 --> 02:37:19,109
they keep it on their iPad. This is ludicrous. This

2415
02:37:19,269 --> 02:37:22,469
is not the future of what a municipal government should

2416
02:37:22,469 --> 02:37:27,547
be. So I support the deferral because this is not

2417
02:37:27,947 --> 02:37:31,067
done. And this is not appropriate in how it's been

2418
02:37:31,067 --> 02:37:34,347
analyzed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Councillor Zinker, there

2419
02:37:34,347 --> 02:37:36,839
on the, uh, on the floor. Uh, the main motion

2420
02:37:37,079 --> 02:37:41,399
as amendment was moved by Councillor against the main motion.

2421
02:37:41,319 --> 02:37:44,039
Thank you. Thanks. That's quite a counselor Baldwin to the

2422
02:37:44,039 --> 02:37:47,892
made motion as a bend. Yeah. Your worship, this is

2423
02:37:47,892 --> 02:37:50,292
the second time just in case you're keeping track. So,

2424
02:37:50,212 --> 02:37:55,252
um, I'm keeping very close. Okay. So my question, uh,

2425
02:37:55,972 --> 02:37:59,812
with respect to the concern that Councillor Burkitt raised previously,

2426
02:37:59,732 --> 02:38:03,412
uh, I'd like to ask, um, Commissioner Putts, David, um.

2427
02:38:04,281 --> 02:38:08,121
There would be time, time, times, um, for counselors to

2428
02:38:08,201 --> 02:38:12,343
receive educational training. I suspect that given the debate that

2429
02:38:12,423 --> 02:38:15,943
we've had, um, I think the counselor had referenced, you

2430
02:38:15,863 --> 02:38:18,183
know, 10 years from now. We won't even know what

2431
02:38:18,263 --> 02:38:23,833
the bylaw means. Would it be something that. The CEO

2432
02:38:24,553 --> 02:38:27,433
and in conjunction with your office might think about doing

2433
02:38:27,753 --> 02:38:30,873
an educational topic at the beginning of every term with

2434
02:38:30,873 --> 02:38:34,233
a new council with respect to the procedure to bylaw.

2435
02:38:34,153 --> 02:38:37,433
So those who are sitting here, um, would have an

2436
02:38:37,433 --> 02:38:39,673
understanding of the bylaw. And I guess like a goal

2437
02:38:40,073 --> 02:38:43,433
to see a reign of rather than Commissioner Bosnies. Mr.

2438
02:38:43,433 --> 02:38:47,066
Rato, please. Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor. So we

2439
02:38:47,066 --> 02:38:51,706
are having every year, a council workshop. So we are

2440
02:38:51,786 --> 02:38:54,346
planning one in the march. So then we'll be a

2441
02:38:54,346 --> 02:38:57,706
standard protocol. We'll be reviewing it and discussing it with

2442
02:38:58,026 --> 02:39:03,571
the council. Hey, to the main motion as amended. Sure.

2443
02:39:06,095 --> 02:39:09,455
Good. Councilor Hankey. Uh, thank you very much, your worship.

2444
02:39:09,455 --> 02:39:13,135
Um, as you know, I chair, uh, finance, one of

2445
02:39:13,055 --> 02:39:15,855
the things that I guarantee I will do is before

2446
02:39:16,095 --> 02:39:18,575
the meeting, I will be asking people if there's any

2447
02:39:18,815 --> 02:39:21,295
accommodations that they require and they can come to me

2448
02:39:22,575 --> 02:39:25,455
and speak to me about them, uh, again, having, having

2449
02:39:25,615 --> 02:39:28,575
been in that situation, I understand the importance of it.

2450
02:39:28,575 --> 02:39:31,295
The other thing that, uh, I just wanted to say

2451
02:39:31,535 --> 02:39:35,935
is, um, Councillor La Chica referred to, it's against the,

2452
02:39:35,855 --> 02:39:38,415
I believe you said the human rights code. And the

2453
02:39:38,415 --> 02:39:40,815
labor code, but we determined that that is not the

2454
02:39:40,975 --> 02:39:45,535
case. Um, here earlier, Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood then

2455
02:39:45,855 --> 02:39:52,977
counselor Lachica. Maybe you could. There are different legal opinions.

2456
02:39:52,897 --> 02:39:56,977
And I sought the legal opinion of two lawyers outside

2457
02:39:57,297 --> 02:40:01,040
of the city offices this week. And they, they told

2458
02:40:01,120 --> 02:40:03,280
me contrary to the advice that we've had today. Thank

2459
02:40:03,280 --> 02:40:07,074
you. Okay. Thank you very much for hanging out the

2460
02:40:07,154 --> 02:40:10,354
floor. Thank you very much, your worship. Um, and our

2461
02:40:10,514 --> 02:40:13,874
city solicitor has said that that is not the case.

2462
02:40:13,794 --> 02:40:17,154
And I'm going to go with our city solicitor. But

2463
02:40:17,234 --> 02:40:20,834
again, getting back to, um, the main motion, I'm glad

2464
02:40:20,994 --> 02:40:23,554
I was explained to me properly because I do understand

2465
02:40:24,354 --> 02:40:27,794
that the chair has full discretion to make any adjustments

2466
02:40:28,034 --> 02:40:32,152
that are required. At that meeting. Again, for me, I'm

2467
02:40:32,232 --> 02:40:36,649
going to state up front. Earlier than the meeting begins

2468
02:40:37,209 --> 02:40:39,449
and ask people if there's any accommodations that they need

2469
02:40:39,849 --> 02:40:41,769
and I'd be happy to, happy to make them. Um,

2470
02:40:41,929 --> 02:40:45,154
so I don't. I don't have an issue actually, um,

2471
02:40:45,954 --> 02:40:48,034
my phone's been off all night and it's been a

2472
02:40:48,034 --> 02:40:52,194
treat. Uh, because it's not ringing, um, my family knows

2473
02:40:52,434 --> 02:40:53,954
where to get a hold of me. If there is

2474
02:40:54,114 --> 02:40:56,754
an issue, um, and if I thought that I had

2475
02:40:57,074 --> 02:41:01,394
a need for a phone, I would speak with the

2476
02:41:01,714 --> 02:41:05,074
chair tonight and ask for the permission. Um, I'm okay

2477
02:41:05,314 --> 02:41:08,594
the way that it is written. We've made some changes.

2478
02:41:08,514 --> 02:41:10,994
And again, and I don't think I was really clear,

2479
02:41:10,914 --> 02:41:14,434
but there was four speakers in particular tonight that spoke

2480
02:41:14,434 --> 02:41:17,714
very well that made me realize that we do, uh,

2481
02:41:17,954 --> 02:41:20,514
have to make some changes. And we not only did

2482
02:41:20,594 --> 02:41:23,154
we make the changes. They were the right changes based

2483
02:41:23,074 --> 02:41:26,114
on the input from the public. So, um, contrary to

2484
02:41:26,274 --> 02:41:29,954
what some people may believe, I do listen. Um, not

2485
02:41:30,114 --> 02:41:32,754
necessarily at home all the time, but I do listen

2486
02:41:33,154 --> 02:41:36,194
at council. And I think that it was a what

2487
02:41:36,194 --> 02:41:39,954
we've done tonight is a good compromise. We've extended questions

2488
02:41:40,194 --> 02:41:42,994
from one to two last week. And we can be

2489
02:41:43,234 --> 02:41:46,594
concise. And that's one of the issues we all can

2490
02:41:46,674 --> 02:41:51,154
speak very short and very concisely if we're required to.

2491
02:41:51,074 --> 02:41:53,794
And I think that that's important for the, uh, for

2492
02:41:53,874 --> 02:41:56,354
the speakers to understand also when they're up here. So

2493
02:41:56,834 --> 02:42:00,754
thank you very much. Thank you very much, Councillor Hickey.

2494
02:42:00,674 --> 02:42:04,848
Councillor Burke for a second time. Thank you, Marilyn. And

2495
02:42:04,848 --> 02:42:08,448
this is just in response to Councillor Baldwin. It is

2496
02:42:08,528 --> 02:42:10,768
my personal belief that a bylaw should not need to

2497
02:42:10,768 --> 02:42:13,648
be translated and that a bylaw should not need an

2498
02:42:13,888 --> 02:42:17,248
education session. It should be clear to everyone involved. And,

2499
02:42:17,168 --> 02:42:19,008
you know, I'm just raising a point to me that's

2500
02:42:19,168 --> 02:42:21,488
very unclear. You know, maybe it's just the fact that

2501
02:42:21,568 --> 02:42:24,608
I'm the youngest on council. I understand how I can

2502
02:42:24,688 --> 02:42:26,448
use this thing in the exact same way as I

2503
02:42:26,448 --> 02:42:28,688
can use my phone. And it's like absurd to me

2504
02:42:29,088 --> 02:42:33,648
that this is allowed when the bylaws explicitly says any

2505
02:42:33,888 --> 02:42:37,733
electronic device. Thank you. Thank you. It's a work any

2506
02:42:37,893 --> 02:42:42,748
further comments. It's been booed by Councillor Beamer. Segway counselor

2507
02:42:42,828 --> 02:42:43,788
Heggie. We'll go to a vote.

2508
02:43:17,967 --> 02:43:23,183
And that is Carried eight to three. The next item

2509
02:43:23,343 --> 02:43:33,108
is 10L. 10L. 10L. Sorry, Kelsey, I think it was

2510
02:43:33,348 --> 02:43:39,921
Ted Alu. You flagged for me. So you don't want

2511
02:43:40,001 --> 02:43:42,306
to discuss it. Now somebody would like to move Teddy

2512
02:43:42,386 --> 02:43:45,369
Councillor Bieber. Councillor Pernell. We'll go to a vote.

2513
02:44:41,097 --> 02:44:48,018
10M, 10M Councillor Parnell and M. Councillor Baldwin, your second

2514
02:44:48,258 --> 02:44:52,519
10M. Any further commerce or questions? We'll go to vote.

2515
02:45:49,734 --> 02:45:52,614
That's carried. Councillor Crowley 10Q. You want to speak to

2516
02:45:52,694 --> 02:46:01,403
RedPath. That was a notice of motion. Yes. Um. Thank

2517
02:46:01,403 --> 02:46:04,043
you, Chair. Um, I, I just wanted to say that

2518
02:46:04,203 --> 02:46:08,763
there's, there's just for the notice of motion for red

2519
02:46:08,763 --> 02:46:12,443
path. I mean, there's awe of. And I think, um,

2520
02:46:12,923 --> 02:46:15,003
Dr. Sean, as he actually falls in that category. And

2521
02:46:15,083 --> 02:46:18,283
I know that my, um, my mother was, was, um,

2522
02:46:19,643 --> 02:46:23,243
absolutely love Peggy and supported everything she did and followed

2523
02:46:23,323 --> 02:46:29,003
her, uh, religiously, uh, I know Peggy did so much

2524
02:46:29,243 --> 02:46:32,923
for me, um, during March of last year when I

2525
02:46:32,843 --> 02:46:35,748
was going through stuff with my mom. I think that

2526
02:46:35,828 --> 02:46:37,348
this is really great. And I think it was touched

2527
02:46:37,348 --> 02:46:41,748
on that, that the potential for this funding to open

2528
02:46:41,828 --> 02:46:45,908
up other avenues of funding for red path is really

2529
02:46:45,908 --> 02:46:48,708
important. And I think for someone like Peg, who has,

2530
02:46:48,628 --> 02:46:51,588
um, has Dr. Sean, excuse me, who has been sort

2531
02:46:51,748 --> 02:46:55,268
of shown the door, um, time and time again by,

2532
02:46:55,188 --> 02:46:59,108
uh, different organizations. And even, you know, the city in

2533
02:46:59,028 --> 02:47:01,428
the past, she's had trouble trying to get funding from

2534
02:47:01,588 --> 02:47:02,868
the city. And I think that this is a really

2535
02:47:03,108 --> 02:47:05,366
great thing that we're doing. Uh, and I think that

2536
02:47:05,526 --> 02:47:08,566
it'll, it'll benefit the city in a really great way.

2537
02:47:08,486 --> 02:47:10,886
So I just wanted to say thank you to her.

2538
02:47:10,806 --> 02:47:12,566
Thank you to Liz and thank you to Red Path.

2539
02:47:12,486 --> 02:47:14,086
And thank you for everybody involved. And thank you for

2540
02:47:14,246 --> 02:47:18,255
everyone who's been here tonight. So thank you colleagues. Next

2541
02:47:18,335 --> 02:47:24,255
year early. Councillor Dugay, please on Red Path. Your worship.

2542
02:47:24,175 --> 02:47:30,175
Thank you for the opportunity to speak. Uh, the general

2543
02:47:30,335 --> 02:47:36,975
committee meeting and prior, um, I had expressed a knee,

2544
02:47:36,895 --> 02:47:39,215
a potential need for a business plan to be produced

2545
02:47:39,855 --> 02:47:45,615
in support of Dr. Shaughnessy's, um, proposal for some transitional

2546
02:47:45,935 --> 02:47:51,145
housing, um, at her Brock Street property. I have, um.

2547
02:47:52,550 --> 02:47:57,750
Uh, consider, uh, this evening's delegations plus, um, reflect upon

2548
02:47:58,150 --> 02:48:01,752
some of the initial meetings I had. With Dr. Shaughty.

2549
02:48:01,752 --> 02:48:08,232
I also reflect upon in 2014 Dr. Shaughnessy Peggy at

2550
02:48:08,312 --> 02:48:11,272
the time. She and I were both, uh, core sponsors

2551
02:48:11,352 --> 02:48:14,872
of Clary Hughes, big blue bike ride, which dealt with

2552
02:48:15,512 --> 02:48:20,864
mental health issues and related matters in our city. He

2553
02:48:20,864 --> 02:48:24,818
has been. Firmly committed to helping people dealing with a

2554
02:48:24,978 --> 02:48:28,978
various, uh, dealing with addictions and needing to heal self.

2555
02:48:29,660 --> 02:48:32,140
And what I see, what has been requested this evening

2556
02:48:32,620 --> 02:48:37,580
is a reasonable, um, a reasonable request to have the

2557
02:48:37,660 --> 02:48:42,833
city provide some. Seed funding to allow, uh, Dr. Shaughty

2558
02:48:42,993 --> 02:48:46,753
and her group to advance a proposal that will, uh,

2559
02:48:47,713 --> 02:48:52,913
and, uh, referred to better her, her business model. And

2560
02:48:53,073 --> 02:48:57,233
as noted to introduce necessary housing that potentially conserve a

2561
02:48:57,233 --> 02:49:02,433
transitional means persons dealing recovering from addiction. So I'm in

2562
02:49:02,433 --> 02:49:06,753
full support of our allocation of funds, uh, given these,

2563
02:49:06,673 --> 02:49:11,800
uh, this background in these circumstances. Thank you. Councillor Weber,

2564
02:49:11,720 --> 02:49:17,171
please. Thank you Mayor Ale counseling real alluded to it

2565
02:49:17,171 --> 02:49:18,691
last week. And I don't know if he's speaking or

2566
02:49:18,771 --> 02:49:20,771
not, but I just wanted to make some comment. Are

2567
02:49:20,851 --> 02:49:26,211
you on the list? Okay. Um, is, um, certainly right

2568
02:49:26,291 --> 02:49:29,011
the, I support this. I supported last week. And thank

2569
02:49:29,011 --> 02:49:31,251
you, Dr. Shaughnessy, for all your great work. It's a

2570
02:49:31,251 --> 02:49:35,731
great organization. They do great work. Um, it's important to

2571
02:49:35,811 --> 02:49:39,011
point out the great organizations in the community who are

2572
02:49:39,331 --> 02:49:42,211
doing great work. I've met with rising above. And, uh,

2573
02:49:42,291 --> 02:49:44,531
I think they're all also going to be looking for

2574
02:49:45,011 --> 02:49:50,531
some financial support. Many great organizations doing great work in

2575
02:49:50,531 --> 02:49:54,051
the community who will be looking for financial support. But

2576
02:49:54,051 --> 02:49:56,131
we do have to keep in mind Merrill as we

2577
02:49:56,131 --> 02:49:59,491
all know the taxpayer. And we have to keep that

2578
02:49:59,731 --> 02:50:03,651
in mind moving forward. This termic council, we've been very,

2579
02:50:03,571 --> 02:50:09,811
um, we've invested significantly in Wolf Street. In Trinity, uh,

2580
02:50:10,691 --> 02:50:16,931
Brock, both capital and operating. Yes. Cameron House, approximately 13

2581
02:50:17,331 --> 02:50:22,371
million dollars municipally and provincially on homelessness services. Um, that's

2582
02:50:22,691 --> 02:50:25,971
increased significantly this term. So a lot of great services

2583
02:50:26,611 --> 02:50:29,257
and programs and providers out there. A lot of them

2584
02:50:29,417 --> 02:50:32,697
coming to council looking for some seed funding or for

2585
02:50:32,777 --> 02:50:36,937
some support for capital and operating. Um, and I don't

2586
02:50:37,017 --> 02:50:39,497
want to be sort of the downer mayor allele, but

2587
02:50:39,577 --> 02:50:43,337
there's only so much the property taxpayers can pay a

2588
02:50:43,257 --> 02:50:46,377
lot of the property taxpayers are struggling them, themselves right

2589
02:50:46,377 --> 02:50:49,737
now. And although we want to be generous and the

2590
02:50:49,737 --> 02:50:53,017
property taxpayers want to be generous, uh, many of them

2591
02:50:53,177 --> 02:50:56,697
are, are tapped out. Many of them are tax wary.

2592
02:50:56,617 --> 02:50:59,737
And many of them are saying we just can't afford

2593
02:51:00,297 --> 02:51:05,337
higher property taxes. So, um, something this council and next

2594
02:51:05,337 --> 02:51:08,617
council will just have to keep in mind Merrill. There

2595
02:51:08,697 --> 02:51:11,657
is a limit to the amount that we can spend

2596
02:51:12,217 --> 02:51:16,057
on homelessness and all those of these services and organizations

2597
02:51:16,457 --> 02:51:19,657
are great. Uh, they're, there is a limit where property

2598
02:51:19,817 --> 02:51:22,297
taxpayers are saying there's only so much that I can

2599
02:51:22,377 --> 02:51:25,863
afford myself. Thank you, Mayor Lil. I know it was

2600
02:51:25,943 --> 02:51:28,983
moved by a councillor Crowley a secondary for Councillor Burke.

2601
02:51:30,385 --> 02:51:37,198
Councillor pronounced that you want to speak. I just want

2602
02:51:37,118 --> 02:51:40,447
to say something on a personal basis. My late mother

2603
02:51:40,527 --> 02:51:44,447
who was a nursing supervisor at St. Joseph Hospital actually

2604
02:51:44,527 --> 02:51:47,647
helped a higher peaking when she was an O'Reilly in

2605
02:51:47,727 --> 02:51:50,607
those days. And I said this at the pathway of

2606
02:51:51,007 --> 02:51:54,367
aim introduction that my mom always thought Peggy was going

2607
02:51:54,287 --> 02:51:57,247
to have a special mission in life. So I, I

2608
02:51:57,247 --> 02:52:01,973
just wanted to reiterate this tonight. Council Rial, please. Through

2609
02:52:01,973 --> 02:52:05,413
the chair. I will not be supporting this. I want

2610
02:52:05,413 --> 02:52:09,774
to be very clear at the outset. I fully support

2611
02:52:09,934 --> 02:52:12,814
the work of right to heal does and the people

2612
02:52:13,214 --> 02:52:17,519
they serve. Addiction and mental health challenge are real complex

2613
02:52:17,999 --> 02:52:23,106
and deserve serious sustainable sustained support. My concern is not

2614
02:52:23,186 --> 02:52:25,586
about the value of the program. It's about the appropriate

2615
02:52:25,906 --> 02:52:31,879
role of the city of Peterborough as a funder. Write

2616
02:52:31,879 --> 02:52:35,648
to heel is an aftercare treatment recovery program. While traditional

2617
02:52:35,968 --> 02:52:39,408
housing is important component of that work, it remains fundamentally

2618
02:52:40,608 --> 02:52:46,228
health and social services mandate, not a municipal one. These

2619
02:52:46,308 --> 02:52:49,668
types of programs are probably funded by senior levels of

2620
02:52:49,748 --> 02:52:53,812
government, which have both the jurisdiction. And the long -

2621
02:52:53,732 --> 02:52:58,720
term funding capacity to support them. The city already contributes

2622
02:52:58,880 --> 02:53:03,920
through two established affordable housing and homeless funding streams within

2623
02:53:04,000 --> 02:53:10,198
our social services department. Those programs are designed to access

2624
02:53:10,598 --> 02:53:14,518
need and share fairness and allotment funding in a transparent

2625
02:53:14,918 --> 02:53:20,943
and accountable way. Bypassing those processes set a difficult presidence

2626
02:53:21,263 --> 02:53:26,779
and undermines the integrity of an existing system. In addition,

2627
02:53:26,859 --> 02:53:30,059
the province has committed 8 million dollars through the heart

2628
02:53:30,139 --> 02:53:36,459
fund specifically for initiative addressing homelessness, addiction and mental health.

2629
02:53:36,379 --> 02:53:38,779
Precisely the type of work that right to heal does.

2630
02:53:40,209 --> 02:53:43,649
Those funds exist. So municipalities are not forced to back

2631
02:53:43,969 --> 02:53:48,834
fail responsibilities that belong elsewhere. At a time when the

2632
02:53:48,914 --> 02:53:54,194
city is facing significant financial pressures and rising property taxes,

2633
02:53:54,114 --> 02:53:58,339
we must be disciplined and consistent. Every dollar we allocate

2634
02:53:58,819 --> 02:54:01,939
outside of our core mandate is a dollar. We cannot

2635
02:54:02,019 --> 02:54:08,989
spend on housing. Infrastructure transit for emergency services areas where

2636
02:54:09,229 --> 02:54:14,695
the city has clear responsibility. So I think I pointed

2637
02:54:14,695 --> 02:54:19,377
out tonight and I asked questions of Dr. Shaughnessy. If

2638
02:54:19,377 --> 02:54:22,337
she has applied to these funding. And I guess the

2639
02:54:22,497 --> 02:54:27,569
answer is null. Well, that's where the buck stops with

2640
02:54:27,569 --> 02:54:31,279
me. She should have applied there. Instead of coming to

2641
02:54:31,599 --> 02:54:40,243
city council looking for 150, 000 dollars. Taxpayers money. Councilor

2642
02:54:40,323 --> 02:54:42,963
Basiliatus, please. The council of Chica and the Councillor Parnell.

2643
02:54:43,923 --> 02:54:48,723
Councillor, please. Oh, thank you Mayor. Um, yeah, I'm happy

2644
02:54:48,723 --> 02:54:52,723
to support this. Um, you know, with this, uh, support

2645
02:54:52,883 --> 02:54:54,883
from the city, it will open up another streams of

2646
02:54:55,043 --> 02:54:58,003
revenue, uh, for Dr. Sean and see, you know, I

2647
02:54:58,003 --> 02:55:00,563
like that she didn't take the traditional, uh, route to

2648
02:55:00,563 --> 02:55:02,723
this. It's when you have the door shut on you

2649
02:55:03,843 --> 02:55:05,523
quite a few times, you have to look at a

2650
02:55:05,603 --> 02:55:10,003
different way of getting the funding. Um, we, we've seen

2651
02:55:10,083 --> 02:55:13,363
the results that she's been able to produce. And, uh,

2652
02:55:13,523 --> 02:55:16,803
we always talk about those results and different levels of

2653
02:55:17,283 --> 02:55:20,963
government and, and even with the city. And so, um,

2654
02:55:21,523 --> 02:55:23,683
I'm happy to support it. And, um, I know that

2655
02:55:23,843 --> 02:55:26,163
being a good neighbor was brought up. And, you know,

2656
02:55:26,323 --> 02:55:29,603
we deal with that and all of our awards of

2657
02:55:29,683 --> 02:55:31,443
being a good neighbor. And she's proven to be that

2658
02:55:32,083 --> 02:55:34,904
too. So when, when you have all these things that

2659
02:55:34,984 --> 02:55:37,624
are working for you, why wouldn't you support something like

2660
02:55:37,704 --> 02:55:40,996
this. To me, it's, uh, it sure is a different

2661
02:55:41,076 --> 02:55:46,116
approach. It's not your traditional approach. But it's effective and

2662
02:55:46,196 --> 02:55:47,876
it's, and she's very effective on what she does. And

2663
02:55:48,036 --> 02:55:50,516
I think a part of being a good neighbor is

2664
02:55:50,676 --> 02:55:53,316
holding people accountable. And it's pretty clear that she does

2665
02:55:53,316 --> 02:55:56,916
that too. So again, very happy to support this, uh,

2666
02:55:57,156 --> 02:56:00,196
I wish you're well in the future. Thank you. Councillor

2667
02:56:00,276 --> 02:56:04,320
Chica, please. Well, thank you very much. Your worship through

2668
02:56:04,320 --> 02:56:08,160
you. I just would like to say, and I spoke

2669
02:56:09,360 --> 02:56:14,640
last week, um, just how much belief, um, I have

2670
02:56:15,200 --> 02:56:18,720
and Dr. Shauna C, and, um, everything that happens at

2671
02:56:18,880 --> 02:56:24,080
Red Path. There's clearly, um, a nucleus there of, of

2672
02:56:24,400 --> 02:56:28,320
strength, of support, um, and it's one of the tools

2673
02:56:28,480 --> 02:56:31,280
that we need here in our toolkit in Peterborough. And

2674
02:56:31,440 --> 02:56:35,280
as a downtown Ward Counselor, this is a force that,

2675
02:56:35,440 --> 02:56:39,520
that is, is so important for our downtown. And this

2676
02:56:39,520 --> 02:56:43,840
is a special place. Second to none. And we've heard

2677
02:56:44,000 --> 02:56:48,160
tonight from Dr. Shaunacy that support of the city is

2678
02:56:48,400 --> 02:56:53,120
necessary for further scaffolded funding from other sources and from

2679
02:56:53,120 --> 02:56:54,800
the government. So it was great to hear all that

2680
02:56:55,280 --> 02:57:01,520
explained very clearly. We need this. It's contagious. When, when

2681
02:57:01,600 --> 02:57:04,240
you do go inside red path to see the vision

2682
02:57:04,320 --> 02:57:08,400
that's, that's at work. And to hear, um, Philip Jolie

2683
02:57:08,480 --> 02:57:12,880
Coast testimonial today. Such a powerful thing. So thank you

2684
02:57:13,200 --> 02:57:16,080
for your presence here today, Red Path. And I fully

2685
02:57:16,240 --> 02:57:21,789
support this. Thank you. Please. Thank you, your worship. Um,

2686
02:57:21,869 --> 02:57:23,949
I will, I did speak to this last week. And

2687
02:57:23,949 --> 02:57:26,669
of course, I will be supporting a red path tonight.

2688
02:57:26,589 --> 02:57:28,589
Um, if you'd seen my hand first, I would, I

2689
02:57:28,509 --> 02:57:30,429
would have moved it. Uh, but I will definitely be

2690
02:57:30,509 --> 02:57:32,829
voting for it. Um, first I do want to clarify

2691
02:57:33,069 --> 02:57:37,069
that we, we heard very specifically from Dr. Shaughnessy that

2692
02:57:37,069 --> 02:57:39,949
they were not eligible for the heart funding. And that

2693
02:57:39,949 --> 02:57:42,589
is a very, uh, prescribed amount of funding that is

2694
02:57:42,589 --> 02:57:47,789
going through forecast, um, there's no access there. Um, this,

2695
02:57:47,869 --> 02:57:52,349
this is funding for transitional housing specifically the planning for

2696
02:57:52,749 --> 02:57:56,749
transitional housing. The wraparound services that we keep going on

2697
02:57:56,909 --> 02:58:00,269
about that we absolutely need is people seek to improve

2698
02:58:00,429 --> 02:58:02,669
their lives and get away from addiction. They need these

2699
02:58:03,149 --> 02:58:07,229
wraparound services. And that's exactly what this does. And we

2700
02:58:07,309 --> 02:58:09,869
have done this very same thing before the precedent has

2701
02:58:10,029 --> 02:58:14,509
been set where we do a municipal contribution that shows

2702
02:58:14,989 --> 02:58:19,069
confidence in the organization and the program. Uh, and that

2703
02:58:19,309 --> 02:58:24,669
does leverage other, uh, grant opportunities provincially federally quite often,

2704
02:58:24,589 --> 02:58:28,269
as we've seen in other programs, significant private money will

2705
02:58:28,269 --> 02:58:31,389
come in when that confidence is expressed in such an

2706
02:58:31,549 --> 02:58:34,269
important program and other ones out there. We did the

2707
02:58:34,589 --> 02:58:38,109
exact same thing for the Brock mission on Murray Street.

2708
02:58:38,029 --> 02:58:41,069
I was personally involved in a fundraiser for that six

2709
02:58:41,229 --> 02:58:45,069
months selling raple tickets. Uh, we also, uh, contributed to

2710
02:58:45,149 --> 02:58:48,669
the new Brock mission, transitional housing. And I'm sure and

2711
02:58:48,589 --> 02:58:51,309
then that will be also the relocation of the women's

2712
02:58:51,389 --> 02:58:56,189
shelter. And then we also supported the, um, incredible, affordable

2713
02:58:56,269 --> 02:58:59,389
housing, uh, apartment on Monagan Road. And all of those

2714
02:58:59,469 --> 02:59:03,309
things really depended on the council of the day. And

2715
02:59:03,709 --> 02:59:09,149
this council, um, supporting them through the planning application and,

2716
02:59:09,069 --> 02:59:12,669
uh, securing that vision and actually making it, um, happen

2717
02:59:13,069 --> 02:59:15,469
and into a building permit. So I will be supporting

2718
02:59:15,549 --> 02:59:18,829
it based on all of those points. Thank you. Thank

2719
02:59:18,829 --> 02:59:25,790
you, Councillor Perdell. Any further speakers. Councillor Baldwin, please. Thank

2720
02:59:25,870 --> 02:59:28,673
you, your worship. First of all, I'd like to thank

2721
02:59:29,233 --> 02:59:33,329
Councillor Crowley for bringing forth a notice of motion. I'd

2722
02:59:33,409 --> 02:59:35,809
also like to thank Dr. Shanasi for reaching out to

2723
02:59:36,049 --> 02:59:40,292
all the counselors, uh, with their correspondence via email. I

2724
02:59:40,452 --> 02:59:42,852
did respond to her and I still haven't made it

2725
02:59:42,852 --> 02:59:45,492
to the red path, but make it committed this evening.

2726
02:59:45,412 --> 02:59:49,332
And I will be visiting, um, sometime in February, if

2727
02:59:49,332 --> 02:59:51,652
I can pull that together. So absolutely will be supporting

2728
02:59:53,172 --> 02:59:57,157
Councillor Crowley's motion here and happy to do so. Thank

2729
02:59:57,157 --> 02:59:59,797
you, your worship. Thank you, Elsa Baldwin. Anything further.

2730
03:00:17,963 --> 03:00:18,843
And that's scary.

2731
03:00:28,348 --> 03:00:31,148
The next time in business is bylaws, and I know

2732
03:00:31,628 --> 03:00:37,879
Councillor Dugay won a couple separated out, I believe. Sorry,

2733
03:00:37,799 --> 03:00:40,999
thanks for your worship. Yeah, just the next item would

2734
03:00:40,999 --> 03:00:45,319
be recommendations from this evening's general committee meeting. Oh, I'm

2735
03:00:45,319 --> 03:00:49,079
sorry, yes. There's two items you're worship. The first one,

2736
03:00:48,999 --> 03:00:51,799
if you would like, I could just paralyze. Please do.

2737
03:00:51,719 --> 03:00:56,482
I'm sorry. Mr. Hork. Thanks for your worship. So from

2738
03:00:56,722 --> 03:01:00,882
this evening's general committee meeting, there was a recommendation regarding.

2739
03:01:01,675 --> 03:01:04,955
Collective bargaining. That council approved the recommendations that the dining

2740
03:01:05,115 --> 03:01:10,235
report, CAO, PC 26 - 001, dated February 2nd, 2026

2741
03:01:10,875 --> 03:01:14,835
of the Chief Administrative Officer as follows. That council direct

2742
03:01:14,915 --> 03:01:18,675
staff to proceed as recommended in closed session report, CAO

2743
03:01:19,075 --> 03:01:24,286
PC26 - 001, dated February 2nd, 2026. Of the Chief

2744
03:01:24,366 --> 03:01:29,549
Administrative Officer, respecting the collective bargaining process. We have a

2745
03:01:29,629 --> 03:01:34,024
mover to that. I do have a point of order,

2746
03:01:33,944 --> 03:01:40,226
and maybe I missed something, if I may. Yes. 10R,

2747
03:01:40,226 --> 03:01:42,412
did we move that on consent. Because I don't see

2748
03:01:42,572 --> 03:01:45,692
that we moved on. Did we move it on consent?

2749
03:01:45,932 --> 03:01:52,433
I didn't send. Oh, TEDR. Senior snow clearing program? Point

2750
03:01:52,353 --> 03:01:55,157
of order. Oh, okay, go ahead. Councillor Burke, if you

2751
03:01:55,157 --> 03:01:59,924
want to talk about it. Oh yeah, we'll, uh, the

2752
03:02:00,004 --> 03:02:04,962
chair always has a degree of discretion. Take care with

2753
03:02:04,962 --> 03:02:07,042
the chair likes the program. And if you don't have

2754
03:02:07,122 --> 03:02:10,242
that discussion now, you'll definitely have it after this bylaw.

2755
03:02:10,162 --> 03:02:15,202
Um, Mr. Mayor, this is sort of a self -

2756
03:02:15,202 --> 03:02:18,882
serving, uh, more self - serving than usual speech. Um,

2757
03:02:19,202 --> 03:02:21,042
but I just wanted to say, I had a long

2758
03:02:21,282 --> 03:02:24,642
talk today with the resident Ingrid Buck, whom you know.

2759
03:02:24,562 --> 03:02:27,122
And I just wanted to sort of clarify my support

2760
03:02:27,522 --> 03:02:31,682
of your motion, Mr. Mayor. Um, I wholeheartedly agree with

2761
03:02:31,682 --> 03:02:36,962
it. Um, I think that, uh, Ingrid Buck was saw

2762
03:02:36,962 --> 03:02:39,042
an article in the examiner where they, they pulled out

2763
03:02:39,602 --> 03:02:42,242
just a quote where I was trying to have the

2764
03:02:42,402 --> 03:02:46,755
public understand the reality of the cost. Um, in terms

2765
03:02:46,675 --> 03:02:49,635
of, and investing in the infrastructure to have those machines

2766
03:02:49,795 --> 03:02:54,275
that, that sweep each driveway, whatever it's called, um, and

2767
03:02:54,675 --> 03:02:57,315
I just wanted to have, uh, sort of reality checked

2768
03:02:57,875 --> 03:02:59,475
because a lot of people ask me as a counselor

2769
03:02:59,555 --> 03:03:01,715
about, Hey, can you just do this? Like I've seen

2770
03:03:01,955 --> 03:03:05,475
a real, like assuming that it's just a simple, uh,

2771
03:03:05,875 --> 03:03:08,515
cheap effective thing to do. And many of us on

2772
03:03:08,755 --> 03:03:10,995
council have actually tried to investigate that because I'm sure

2773
03:03:11,075 --> 03:03:15,875
we all get those emails. And my, um, acknowledgement of

2774
03:03:15,875 --> 03:03:19,475
the cost of that strategy, um, does not at all

2775
03:03:19,555 --> 03:03:22,355
mean that I don't support a program like you're suggesting,

2776
03:03:22,275 --> 03:03:26,595
which looks into subsidies, um, for people I wholeheartedly support

2777
03:03:26,755 --> 03:03:30,515
that and definitely have many, um, residents, um, who are,

2778
03:03:30,515 --> 03:03:34,357
aren't able bodied, uh, in my award. This, especially this

2779
03:03:34,437 --> 03:03:36,837
winter, um, could use that support. So I, I support

2780
03:03:37,077 --> 03:03:39,717
this. And I think, um, Miss Buck for reaching out

2781
03:03:39,797 --> 03:03:43,194
today. Just for the record, those that may subscribe to

2782
03:03:43,274 --> 03:03:47,034
the Toronto star. There was a lengthy, uh, story yesterday's

2783
03:03:47,114 --> 03:03:51,354
version of a gentleman who's disabled in Toronto had a

2784
03:03:51,514 --> 03:03:56,234
windrow in his driveway of 76 centimeter. It's been isolated

2785
03:03:56,314 --> 03:03:59,901
for a week because they can't get out. By the

2786
03:03:59,821 --> 03:04:02,941
way, very popular program in discussion I had at the

2787
03:04:03,021 --> 03:04:06,781
Legion last Friday, very popular counselor beaver, please. Well, just

2788
03:04:06,941 --> 03:04:09,181
a shout out to Ingrid Buck. She's a North and

2789
03:04:09,661 --> 03:04:13,181
residentist, strong, strong supporter of Councillor Burke is moving at

2790
03:04:13,341 --> 03:04:17,261
counselor quality second. Strong counselor Hakis and I, um, it's

2791
03:04:17,341 --> 03:04:21,741
interesting. All the important and big issues, uh, we dealt

2792
03:04:21,741 --> 03:04:24,301
with tonight. This was the one I got the most

2793
03:04:24,781 --> 03:04:28,301
cause of this week. And they were all positive from

2794
03:04:28,621 --> 03:04:31,821
residents and seniors in North Crest Ward. And, uh, it's

2795
03:04:31,901 --> 03:04:37,341
because it affects people. It's potentially allow seniors to stay

2796
03:04:37,501 --> 03:04:40,141
in their homes longer. And it is an issue that

2797
03:04:40,701 --> 03:04:43,101
we all get a lot of calls about. So when

2798
03:04:43,101 --> 03:04:45,901
we talk about, uh, important issues tonight, this is one

2799
03:04:45,981 --> 03:04:48,461
that really resonated with a lot of, a lot of

2800
03:04:48,461 --> 03:04:51,581
seniors, Marily also, so kudos on you for bringing this

2801
03:04:51,661 --> 03:04:54,221
up. I do have to say counselor Heyckey brought it

2802
03:04:54,301 --> 03:04:58,461
up in 2014. But counsel wasn't ready at the time,

2803
03:04:58,381 --> 03:05:00,541
but I think this needs to be look at in

2804
03:05:00,541 --> 03:05:03,181
a really, really good program that a lot of people

2805
03:05:03,661 --> 03:05:07,181
appreciate Merrill. So I fully support it. Thanks very much

2806
03:05:07,981 --> 03:05:10,621
Councillor Beamer. I think we've had a good discussion. We'll

2807
03:05:10,701 --> 03:05:14,732
go to a counselor Purnell. I would like to try

2808
03:05:14,892 --> 03:05:17,372
and add on a little public service announcement to this

2809
03:05:17,612 --> 03:05:19,772
if I may, uh, because you had recommended that we

2810
03:05:20,012 --> 03:05:24,332
read was at the Toronto Star yesterday. Yesterday's Toronto Star.

2811
03:05:24,252 --> 03:05:26,572
So, uh, those of you who don't have subscriptions, this

2812
03:05:26,652 --> 03:05:29,692
is a plug for our library. If you have a

2813
03:05:30,012 --> 03:05:32,732
city of a payroll library card, which is of course

2814
03:05:33,052 --> 03:05:36,492
this free to our taxpayers, uh, that includes press reader,

2815
03:05:36,412 --> 03:05:40,892
which gives you free access to over 10, 000 publications

2816
03:05:41,772 --> 03:05:45,132
magazines and newspapers, um, so I would have to double

2817
03:05:45,292 --> 03:05:47,772
check with Commissioner Laidman if the Toronto Stars actually one

2818
03:05:47,852 --> 03:05:50,412
of them, but it probably is, Oh, I'm getting the

2819
03:05:50,572 --> 03:05:53,212
nod. So there you go. Get your library card and

2820
03:05:53,132 --> 03:05:56,092
then you can have access. And I provided Commissioner Seminewski

2821
03:05:56,172 --> 03:05:58,652
with the story. So he has all that background for

2822
03:05:59,532 --> 03:06:04,092
a part of his extensive and comprehensive research that he'll

2823
03:06:04,092 --> 03:06:07,563
be doing on this topic. Any further comments. We'll go

2824
03:06:07,563 --> 03:06:07,883
to a vote.

2825
03:07:34,221 --> 03:07:39,197
Carcoi Bisting against Councillor Fasiliac. Councilor Dugay, we're just waiting

2826
03:07:39,277 --> 03:07:39,677
for your vote.

2827
03:07:52,131 --> 03:07:55,651
Your worship, a question procedurally. Am I permitted to a

2828
03:07:55,651 --> 03:07:58,611
vote because I did not attend that closed session, uh,

2829
03:07:58,771 --> 03:08:07,324
meeting. Yeah. Unless you have a pecuniary interest, Kevin.

2830
03:08:09,033 --> 03:08:16,593
I do not. I will vote. And that's Carrie 11B

2831
03:08:17,633 --> 03:08:23,216
314 Carnegie Avenue. Councillor Burke, Secretary Counselor Beamer. I will

2832
03:08:23,296 --> 03:08:23,856
go to a vote.

2833
03:09:09,414 --> 03:09:12,854
And there's a couple that we have to, uh, because

2834
03:09:13,014 --> 03:09:16,374
of your getting interest. Uh, thanks your worship. Um, bylaws

2835
03:09:16,774 --> 03:09:21,974
25 or 26 - 010 through to 26 - 016

2836
03:09:22,214 --> 03:09:27,254
or before council this evening for consideration, uh, bylaws 26

2837
03:09:27,334 --> 03:09:32,694
- 015 and 016, uh, we're, we're the subject of,

2838
03:09:32,614 --> 03:09:36,294
uh, Crescent Street, the rezoning, the official plan and counselors,

2839
03:09:36,214 --> 03:09:40,440
uh, Burke and Dugay declared interest on those matters. So

2840
03:09:40,600 --> 03:09:42,520
if I could, I get what's up and do.

2841
03:10:45,804 --> 03:10:51,644
And that's carried. If someone could move 26015 at 2606,

2842
03:10:51,564 --> 03:10:54,444
the ones that counselor Dugue Council Burke have declared a

2843
03:10:54,524 --> 03:10:57,804
beginner interest. Councillor Pronoun, Secretary Councilor Baldwin. We'll go to

2844
03:10:57,804 --> 03:10:58,044
a vote.

2845
03:11:45,149 --> 03:11:46,829
Councillor Dickey, have you voted? Or sorry, you don't vote

2846
03:11:46,909 --> 03:11:54,918
on this one. S Parnell in Baldwin.

2847
03:11:56,968 --> 03:11:59,208
And Councillor's Dugain Burke have the confidence.

2848
03:12:20,944 --> 03:12:21,984
Cheap enough, we could vote there.

2849
03:12:54,538 --> 03:12:56,058
Tell service Elias who are waiting for you to vote.

2850
03:13:03,369 --> 03:13:05,849
Yeah. Highbone favored. It didn't pop up, but I'm in

2851
03:13:05,849 --> 03:13:13,384
favor definitely. And that's Carrie. Next item is other business.

2852
03:13:13,304 --> 03:13:17,544
Other business counselor pronoun, please. Thank you, Mayor Leel. Uh,

2853
03:13:17,784 --> 03:13:20,904
Mr. Chair, um, a little public service announcement. It is

2854
03:13:21,064 --> 03:13:23,704
that time of year where we are seeking nominations from

2855
03:13:23,784 --> 03:13:28,504
the community for the 2025 Civic Awards. Uh, so we

2856
03:13:29,144 --> 03:13:32,984
absolutely encourage people to nominate somebody in your life that

2857
03:13:33,064 --> 03:13:37,304
you know has been an exemplary in arts, in sports,

2858
03:13:37,224 --> 03:13:42,024
in music and community betterment and environment, uh, also please

2859
03:13:42,424 --> 03:13:45,464
self - nominate. We know we have absolutely amazing people

2860
03:13:46,024 --> 03:13:49,144
in our community mayor doing all kinds of great projects

2861
03:13:49,864 --> 03:13:54,104
and programs. And they deserve to be thanked publicly and

2862
03:13:54,344 --> 03:13:58,104
acknowledged by us at a very special event in May.

2863
03:13:58,024 --> 03:14:01,704
The deadline to get your nominations into the clerk's office.

2864
03:14:01,624 --> 03:14:04,664
It's all run through the clerk's office. Um, is March

2865
03:14:04,904 --> 03:14:09,384
13th, I believe. So please get, go to paper. ca,

2866
03:14:09,304 --> 03:14:11,944
check out the civic awards, um, fill out the application

2867
03:14:12,504 --> 03:14:15,464
and let us know about the wonderful people in your

2868
03:14:15,544 --> 03:14:17,464
life, even if it's yourself. We want to know about

2869
03:14:17,544 --> 03:14:20,184
you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Councillor

2870
03:14:20,264 --> 03:14:24,911
Pernell and any other business. Next item is confirmation bylaw.

2871
03:14:24,831 --> 03:14:28,751
Someone like to move 26017 Councillor Crowley, Councillor Hickey. We'll

2872
03:14:28,751 --> 03:14:29,071
go to a vote.

2873
03:15:07,553 --> 03:15:14,691
Councilor Basiades, uh, on the confirmation bylaw. Yes. Thank you.

2874
03:15:19,620 --> 03:15:23,300
That's Carrie. Motion to adjourn Councillor Crowley. Councillor Hickey. We'll

2875
03:15:23,300 --> 03:15:23,700
go to a vote.

2876
03:15:38,989 --> 03:15:46,702
Councilor Faciliatus. Yes. Yes. Definitely.

2877
03:15:51,877 --> 03:15:54,037
And that's carrying. Take your colleagues. Thank you staff. Thank

2878
03:15:54,117 --> 03:15:54,677
you audience.