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- Bonjour, tout le monde.

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>> Can you hear me well? Good to

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see our friends from Cadillac

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Fairview are with us tonight.

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Welcome. Ce soir, nous sommes à

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une réunion convoqué par les

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conseillers pour voter sur la

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résolution de notre directrice

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générale. Nous ouvrons les

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négociations pour sorti la forêt

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Fairview et les stationnements

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Fairview du gel, le

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développement de notre règlement

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de contrôle intérimaire, et de

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les intégrer dans un plan de

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déménagement. J'ai donné mon

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veto à la résolution initiale

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afin de donner mon soutien pour

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s'informer et se faire entendre

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sur cette question. J'aurais

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également préféré qu'elle fasse

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l'objet d'un nouveau vote, lors

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de notre prochaine réunion

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régulière le 7 février.

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À l'heure habituelle de 19

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heures, afin que davantage de

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citoyens puissent y assister.

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Bien que j'ai toujours que

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Fairview devrait être consulté

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dans le cadre de la mise à jour,

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je m'oppose à ce que cette

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résolution... à cette résolution

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pour les raisons suivantes: tout

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d'abord, elle permettra à

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Fairview de concevoir son propre

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processus de consultation

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publique en tant que partenaire

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égal de la ville, au lieu de

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faire partie du même processus

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de consultation que les autres

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propriétés dans le cadre de

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notre plan de

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(---)

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global. Deux, le plan

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d'aménagement venant et de la

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structure juridique moins

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contraignant que notre règlement

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de contrôle et notre plan

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d'urbanisme prévu. Et l'accord

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avec lac Fairview permettra de

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rédiger et de soumettre son

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propre règlement de zonage

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directement au conseil

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municipal. Trois: je me pose à

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la décision de traiter de la

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même façon la forêt Fairview et

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le stationnement Fairview. Même

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si le stationnement fait l'objet

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d'un certain type de

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développement, j'aimerais voir

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quelque chose de plus proche

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d'un minimum de 69 unités

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(---)

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au lieu des tours de 25 étages

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proposés, qui sont plusieurs

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fois plus grande. Je crois que

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les citoyens veulent que toute

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la forêt Fairview soit préservée

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du développement à la fois pour

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le bénéfice de notre communauté

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et pour atteindre nos objectifs,

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et ce, des autres paliers de

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gouvernement en matière de

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protection des arbres et des

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espaces verts et de la lutte

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contre les changements

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climatiques.

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>> Tonight, we are at a meeting

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called by Councillor Stainforth,

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the stork, Thorstad-Cullen, and

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Bissonnette, to vote on the

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resolution mandating our city

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manager open negotiations with

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Cadillac Fairview to take

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Fairview forest and Fairview

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parking lot out of the

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development freeze of our

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interim control bylaw and put

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them into a comprehensive

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development plan. I veto their

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original resolution to give

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residents more time to learn

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about and be heard on this

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issue. I would also have

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preferred it be voted on again

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and our next regular meeting on

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February 7th, and at the normal

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schedule time, 7 pm, so our

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citizens can attend. I have

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always said that Cadillac

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Fairview needed to be consulted

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as we update our urban plan, I

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pose this resolution because,

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number one, it will allow

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Cadillac Fairview to design its

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own separate public consultation

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process as an equal partner with

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the city, instead of being part

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of the same consultation process

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as other properties within our

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overall urban plan. Three, a

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comprehensive development plan

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is a weaker, less and forceful

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interim control bylaw and

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revised -- and gives Cadillac

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Fairview special treatment,

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allows it to right and submit

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its own zoning bylaw directly to

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City Council. I objected the

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decision, three, I object the

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decision to treat both Fairview

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forest and Fairview parking lot

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in the same way. While the

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parking lot will be subject to

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development of some kind, I want

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to see something closer to the

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60 units per hectare minimum

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actually required by which are

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metropolitan community -- 25

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floor luxury towers proposed by

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Cadillac Fairview, which are

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several times that. I believe

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citizens want all of Fairview

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forest to be preserved from

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development, both for the

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benefit of our community and

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meet our targets and those of

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other levels of government for

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the protection of trees and

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green space and fighting climate

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change. I will quickly deal with

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a couple little mythologies

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floating around now that need to

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be corrected. We have heard a

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lot of expression about tactics

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of delay, delay, delay. It has

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been repeated over and over

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again. The problem here is that

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sometimes when you repeat things

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so often, people think they are

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true. In fact, they are not.

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There has been no or delay

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whatsoever. I have here multiple

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copies for all of you in the

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room of a process and timeline

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which we decided on last year.

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And that timeline was decided,

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decided on by all the

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councillors and myself and we

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have proceeded to follow this

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timeline, which we can have a

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copy of, religiously. The only

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problem being we have not met as

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frequently as I would have

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liked. We will are -- we there

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has been no delay on my part

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whatsoever. You can get a copy

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of this timeline, agreed upon by

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all of us, all of us agree to

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this timeline, which we are

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following and have followed

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ridges from the outset. There

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has been no delays. That is myth

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number one. Myth number two, in

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today's because it -- because

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that, she writes however,

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Thomas's opponents have called

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another special meeting to

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introduce that resolution on

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Monday arguing that Mayor's

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decision didn't satisfy the

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criteria for using a veto.

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Québec law, however, and I

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quote, doesn't stipulate

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criteria for mayors with the

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veto. There are no criteria.

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Councillor Stainforth, who

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endorses of the resolution

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discussed on Monday, Mrs.

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straight out of the Montréal

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Gazette. The Montréal Gazette

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referred to a statement she

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posted on her Facebook page on

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Sunday. Stainforth said the

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mayor can use his veto power

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only if new information becomes

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available or if circumstances

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have changed, if absences

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allowed a vote to carry, that

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would have otherwise failed or a

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resolution creates an illegal or

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irresponsible outcomes.

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Completely false. None of these

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apply. And the veto should not

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have been used by the mayor,

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Stainforth wrote. For this

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reason, I have agreed to support

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and the proposed date in order

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to deal with the issue

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immediately and leave our

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regular monthly meetings for

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regular business. However,

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Goulet writes, having called a

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couple of municipal lawyers, the

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city and towns act grants the

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mayor to, I quote, exercise the

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right of superintendent,

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investigation and control over

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all the departments and officers

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or employees of the

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municipality, except the chief

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auditor. Municipal affairs

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department, and describing the

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mayoral vita, sets out no

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criteria for its use. That is

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the law.

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[Applause]

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>> Mister Mayor! Can you

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maintain order place!

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>> I am still speaking. I have

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more to say.

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>> Mister Mayor! Please!

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>> Councillor Cowan, I am still

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speaking. And the mayor can

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exercise a right of veto over

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any Council decisions by

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refusing to approve them and,

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consequently, to sign the

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documents relating to these

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issues. I quote, this is the

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municipal affairs. Councillor

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Cowan, you would like to speak?

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>> Carry on, Mister Mayor. When

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you are done, we can carry on

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with our business.

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>> I am waiting for you to

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speak.

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>> Thank you, Mister Mayor. I

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move that the mayor's --

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>> Can we just first approve the

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agenda, please?

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>> I move that we approve the

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agenda.

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>> Do I have a seconder?

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>> Kelly Thorstad-Cullen,

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district three.

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>> All in favour?

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- Juste un instant!

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The resolution?

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>> 1.1. Do you want to go? First

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>> Yes. I move the Mayor's abuse

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of the use of veto be over

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carried in district eight.

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>> You have a seconder? Can they

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move? It's not on the agenda.

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Nor can they move to remove it.

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>> We need a mover for the exact

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same resolution you adopt on

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last Thursday. The exact same

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resolution. I can read it if you

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want. It has to be the exact

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same resolution.

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>> Or if they can move to have

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the veto overturned, can they

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not? In which case --

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>>

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- La résolution, lors du jour,

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c'est celle adoptée jeudi passé.

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Okay. Okay.

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>> I moved to reinstate the

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resolution and that was passed

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on the 19th of January.

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>> Do I have a seconder?

284
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,000
>> I second. It

285
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000
>> All in favour?

286
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000
>> Please know that everybody

287
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,000
voted all against. Borough, is

288
00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,000
your hand up? There you go. And

289
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000
we now proceed to question

290
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:07,000
period? Okay. The mic is open.

291
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,000
>> Good evening. District. One

292
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,000
before I ask a brief question I

293
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,000
would like to make a statement

294
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,000
in response to the question

295
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,000
asked on a public Facebook group

296
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,000
by none other than Councillor

297
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000
Cowan. He wrote, I am sorry that

298
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,000
there is such little trust in

299
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,000
the political process. You fear

300
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,000
the people elected to serve the

301
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,000
public. Mr. Cohen, here are a

302
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,000
few reasons. I offer them

303
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,000
politely and without sarcasm or

304
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,000
hostility. First, because the

305
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,000
resolution you fast tonight to

306
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,000
direct city managers to

307
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000
negotiate in private with

308
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,000
Cadillac every on the basis of a

309
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,000
mandate letter which knelt

310
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,000
members of the public have been

311
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000
allowed to see. And the public

312
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,000
had no way of knowing if the

313
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000
mandate letter was truly in

314
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,000
their interest. Surely, it would

315
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,000
be weird and wrong if members of

316
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,000
parliament and national assembly

317
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,000
voted on a new law before any

318
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,000
members of the public had a

319
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,000
chance to know what the law

320
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,000
contained. Second, it because

321
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,000
councillors chosen the Cadillac

322
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,000
Fairview absolute veto and

323
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,000
deciding what kind of purchase

324
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,000
-- this suits the corporate

325
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,000
agenda but I don't believe it

326
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000
suits the public agenda. Third,

327
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,000
because as you yourself stated

328
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,000
at the last council meeting, in

329
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,000
2022, the Pointe-Claire planning

330
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,000
department had proposed

331
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,000
discussions get underway with

332
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,000
Cadillac Fairview. Council sent

333
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,000
a letter to the company on that

334
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,000
basis. As he went on to say,

335
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,000
Cadillac Fairview stipulated,

336
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,000
not requested, not proposed,

337
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,000
Cadillac Fairview stipulated

338
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000
that in year to the Fairview

339
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,000
forest would also be part of the

340
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,000
discussions and Council agreed

341
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,000
to this demand. Fourth, because

342
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,000
as you have again made clear,

343
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,000
the fear of legal action has

344
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,000
played a major role in

345
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000
determining how this process is

346
00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,000
taking shape. In your remarks to

347
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,000
Madam Lucia, you said, whether

348
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,000
there is litigation hovering in

349
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000
the background, closed door

350
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,000
litigation has been the only way

351
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,000
to move towards settlement

352
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,000
without going into court. I

353
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,000
would put it more vividly and

354
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,000
say all the -- the puppet can be

355
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,000
left dangling outside the closed

356
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,000
door. Fifth, because the

357
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,000
resolution uses the -- mutually

358
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,000
agreeable path forward and at

359
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,000
the definition of mutually

360
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,000
agreeable in the Pointe-Claire

361
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,000
side appears to be the city

362
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000
manager and you and your fellow

363
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,000
councillors. You make it

364
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,000
abundantly clear that you don't

365
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,000
trust the mayor, who is duly

366
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,000
expect -- those of us who care

367
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,000
about climate change and green

368
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,000
space will remember that the

369
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,000
Mayor's platform highlighted

370
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,000
protecting the natural

371
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,000
environment. Six, because while

372
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,000
you and some of your fellow

373
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,000
councillors have repeatedly

374
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000
spoken in glowing terms about

375
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,000
the value of the city's long and

376
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,000
deep partnership with Cadillac

377
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,000
Fairview, I don't believe you or

378
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,000
they have ever praised the value

379
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,000
of the green space that is the

380
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,000
Fairview forest or have spoken

381
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,000
about how the Forest asserts of

382
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000
the needs of local walkers, dog

383
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,000
owners, bird-watchers. I do

384
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,000
recall you boasting you once lit

385
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000
a bonfire in the forest.

386
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,000
Finally, before because of the

387
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,000
vicious, dehumanizing, an ugly

388
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,000
rhetoric that certain

389
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,000
councillors have directed at the

390
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,000
mayor over the past weeks and

391
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,000
months, I've been personally not

392
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,000
just disappointed but appalled

393
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,000
at one of the councillors used

394
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,000
the word loathsome in a Facebook

395
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,000
post attacking the mayor with

396
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000
another councillor claiming

397
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,000
people who believe the hollow

398
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,000
statements of other elected

399
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,000
officials have been drinking the

400
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000
Kool-Aid. This kind of language

401
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,000
may become normalized in the

402
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000
USA, but I believe it's

403
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,000
inappropriate in a civilized

404
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,000
debate. I except councillors may

405
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,000
have legitimate frustrations

406
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,000
about mayor Thomas. For him to

407
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,000
be constantly mocked, vilified,

408
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,000
and demonized by at least three

409
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,000
councillors does not foster any

410
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,000
trust in the political process.

411
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,000
Nor did that frequent complaints

412
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,000
about media bias, whenever there

413
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000
is a TV or a video clip or

414
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,000
newspaper article that casts

415
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,000
doubt on what the majority in

416
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,000
Council say. If you want, Mr.

417
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,000
Cowan, you can reply to what I

418
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000
just said. My very brief

419
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,000
question is directed to the

420
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000
Mayor. Can you assure the

421
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000
citizens of Pointe-Claire that

422
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000
despite the resolution that just

423
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000
passed, he will look hard and

424
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,000
work hard for possible ways to

425
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,000
prevent the destruction of the

426
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,000
Fairview forest?

427
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,000
>> You know to the answer to

428
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,000
that question. Absolutely, 100%.

429
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000
I will do my darndest work. I

430
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,000
will throw my body in front of

431
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,000
it. Absolutely.

432
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,000
[Laughter]

433
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,000
[Applause]

434
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,000
Apparently we are not allowed to

435
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,000
clap, folks. Again.

436
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,000
>> Good evening. My name -- I'm

437
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,000
very disappointed, really. All

438
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,000
the six city councillors from

439
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,000
the last previous

440
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000
administration, you follow

441
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,000
exactly -- what he run for is

442
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
citizens first, but we are the

443
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000
citizens of real estate and

444
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,000
developer. You are still doing

445
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,000
the same thing. I'm asking them,

446
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000
all of them without hurting the

447
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,000
city and ashamed, really. I

448
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,000
asked them to all resign. She

449
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,000
resigned. Please, I'm asking you

450
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,000
to all resign, the six of you,

451
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,000
so we can have peace of mind and

452
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:38,000
we elect somebody better to work

453
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,000
for the city. How we think about

454
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,000
it, Mister Mayor? I know you

455
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,000
work and you run for good for

456
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,000
the city. How you feel working

457
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,000
with all of them? Can you tell

458
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,000
us, please?

459
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000
>> I won't be explicit. Suffice

460
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000
it to say, I am doing my best to

461
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,000
work with the people in this

462
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,020
council.

463
00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:01,020
>> I know you are doing your

464
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:03,020
best. But them, they are doing

465
00:17:03,020 --> 00:17:08,020
nothing. All just for the --

466
00:17:09,020 --> 00:17:12,020
>> That's for you to decide.

467
00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:13,020
>> Does this have to do with the

468
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:14,020
resolution?

469
00:17:14,020 --> 00:17:17,020
>> Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse

470
00:17:17,020 --> 00:17:20,020
me.

471
00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:25,020
>> Cadillac Fairview to develop

472
00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:27,020
25 high rise buildings and also

473
00:17:27,020 --> 00:17:32,020
develop in the green space.

474
00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:33,020
>> What specifically to the

475
00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:35,020
resolution?

476
00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:37,020
>> What we can do as a citizen

477
00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:39,020
here to help you to get through

478
00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:40,020
all of this?

479
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:41,020
>> You are doing it.

480
00:17:41,020 --> 00:17:44,020
>> Thank you!

481
00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:45,020
>> I will respond to that,

482
00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:47,020
actually. My vote is based on

483
00:17:47,020 --> 00:17:49,020
the majority of the citizens of

484
00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:50,020
district three who have spoken

485
00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:51,020
to be a return to me about this

486
00:17:51,020 --> 00:17:52,020
issue. Sure, there are people on

487
00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:54,020
the other side. But I am telling

488
00:17:54,020 --> 00:17:56,020
you, I vote with the majority. I

489
00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:58,020
have a majority of district

490
00:17:58,020 --> 00:17:59,020
three support in how I voted

491
00:17:59,020 --> 00:18:00,080
this evening. I'm sorry that's

492
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,080
not what you want to hear. But

493
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,080
that is the fact. I discussed

494
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,080
with him the first time when I

495
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,080
was voting. The, I different

496
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:09,080
aspects of the Cadillac Fairview

497
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,080
areas, both of them. Tonight, I

498
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,080
stand by it. I am doing with the

499
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,080
majority of my citizens want me

500
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,080
to vote with. Understand you

501
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,080
have a different perception.

502
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080
What I have been advised that my

503
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:21,080
citizens, I'm doing what they

504
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,080
want. I think it's important to

505
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,080
be able to state that.

506
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,080
>> I answer you for that.

507
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,080
District one, mostly affected.

508
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,080
It doesn't affect district.

509
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,080
Three district one -- they vote

510
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,080
against. You don't respect. You

511
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,080
respect only what you are going

512
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,080
to get elected again. Trust me,

513
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,080
knowing you get elected again,

514
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,080
I'm going to work hard to get

515
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,080
all of you out of there.

516
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,080
>> Excuse. Me I'm going to speak

517
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,080
to that as well. I too won a

518
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:52,080
majority there. I want a

519
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,080
majority in most of the

520
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,080
districts in this city. I won

521
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,080
more votes than all the people

522
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,080
sitting at the staple here. I

523
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,080
think that point should be duly

524
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,040
noted as well.

525
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,040
>> That's what we said. We get

526
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,040
elected from all citizens of

527
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,040
Pointe-Claire. And they get --

528
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,040
>> Only district. Not the entire

529
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,040
city. None of them has a

530
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,040
mandate. Excuse me, Councillor

531
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,040
Court Thorstad-Cullen. We are

532
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,040
speaking to a resolution. The

533
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,040
citizens of Pointe-Claire care

534
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,040
deeply about. We are speaking to

535
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,040
a resolution that will alter, or

536
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,040
may alter their city in a major

537
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,040
matter. They are speaking about

538
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,040
the resolution in that matter. I

539
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,040
think that's appropriate.

540
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,040
>> Can we stick to the

541
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,040
resolution.

542
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,040
>> We are. We are talking about

543
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,040
the resolution. It's about --

544
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,040
>> 61? Votes 61 votes?

545
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,040
>> I'm not finished.

546
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:46,040
>> 61 votes. We won by 98.

547
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,040
>> Excuse. Me I will speak to

548
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,040
Councillor Stork. Councillor

549
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,040
Stork, I have far more votes

550
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,040
than you do from citizens of

551
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,040
Pointe-Claire. You sound like

552
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,040
you are questioning my mandate,

553
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,000
which you clearly have been

554
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,000
doing from the outset of the

555
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000
administration. I think it's

556
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,000
highly indicative that we have

557
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,000
seen a councillor who questions

558
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,000
my mandate. He's commenting it

559
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000
at the margin of victory, 61,

560
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
denies my mandate. He's implying

561
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,000
that in his rhetoric. I think it

562
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,000
speaks volumes to what we are

563
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,000
watching and listening to today.

564
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,000
Yes, sir.

565
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,000
>> I will allow you to continue

566
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,000
with your soap box speech.

567
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,000
>> When a person dies, you feel

568
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000
sorry and cry for that person.

569
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,000
But when somebody, their

570
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,000
conscience dies, we support him

571
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,000
and somebody even follow him. I

572
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,000
wish you all to have good

573
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,000
conscience and wake up, got

574
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,000
bless you all to work for the

575
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
citizens of Pointe-Claire. Thank

576
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,000
you.

577
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
>> Thank you, sir.

578
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,000
>> Good evening. On a personal

579
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,000
note, I found my glasses, Mayor

580
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,060
Thomas.

581
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:03,060
>> Good. In the parking lot.

582
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:04,060
>> Before you start, can you

583
00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:05,060
state your name for the record?

584
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:10,060
>> Yeah, Patricia. I've been a

585
00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:13,060
resident of Pointe-Claire for

586
00:21:13,060 --> 00:21:14,060
over 60 years. I'm presently

587
00:21:14,060 --> 00:21:15,060
residing at stone's throw away

588
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:17,060
from Fairview in district six. I

589
00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:21,060
want to be heard by all of you.

590
00:21:22,060 --> 00:21:24,060
I want to let all the City

591
00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:27,060
Councillors know how I feel

592
00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:29,060
about of a 25 storey

593
00:21:29,060 --> 00:21:30,060
extravaganza which has been

594
00:21:30,060 --> 00:21:33,060
proposed by Cadillac Fairview. I

595
00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:37,060
invite you to come up north of

596
00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:40,060
the 40. Most of you do not come

597
00:21:40,060 --> 00:21:43,060
up north of the 40 because we

598
00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:46,060
have traffic wounds we are

599
00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:48,060
dealing with now and we

600
00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:50,060
anticipate how it will be after

601
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:53,060
this extravaganza is built. At

602
00:21:53,060 --> 00:21:55,060
this point, it seems some of you

603
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:57,060
have taken it upon yourselves to

604
00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:59,060
enter into negotiations with C

605
00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:02,020
F, who have already shown bad

606
00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:05,020
faith by immediately turning to

607
00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:06,020
litigation when the city opted

608
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:09,020
for public consultation. See if

609
00:22:09,020 --> 00:22:12,020
is not interested in the

610
00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:14,020
residents of Hermitage, or how

611
00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:16,020
they are proposed project will

612
00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:19,020
impact our quality of life. They

613
00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:21,020
have not stepped forward to talk

614
00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:25,020
to us about our opinions, our

615
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:26,020
suggestions, and of course, are

616
00:22:26,020 --> 00:22:31,020
objections. They have a plan.

617
00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:36,020
Mr. Cohen and his allies are

618
00:22:36,020 --> 00:22:37,020
preparing to bow to their

619
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:39,020
wishes. From those of us who are

620
00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:41,020
--

621
00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:44,020
>> Mister Mayor, point of

622
00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:47,020
record. She's now -- this is

623
00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:48,020
completely against the rules.

624
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:50,020
>> I don't feel it is.

625
00:22:50,020 --> 00:22:53,020
>> Mister Mayor, it is!

626
00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:55,020
>> It's not for you to decide,

627
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:56,020
sir.

628
00:22:56,020 --> 00:22:58,020
>> Mister Mayor! It's entirely

629
00:22:58,020 --> 00:22:59,020
against the rules!

630
00:22:59,020 --> 00:23:00,080
>> Councillor Cowan, it's not

631
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,080
for you to decide. You are in no

632
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,080
position to decide that.

633
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,080
>> Let's ask the department to

634
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,080
make a ruling. Not a ruling --

635
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,080
>> I can move on.

636
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,080
>> Is it out of order for a

637
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,080
citizen to question the

638
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,080
motivation or integrity of the

639
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Councillor?

640
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,080
>> Go ahead. I've had my

641
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,080
motivation questioned

642
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,080
extensively for months on end.

643
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,080
Oh my goodness!

644
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,080
[Applause]

645
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,080
>> Not here you haven't, not

646
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,080
here.

647
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,080
>> Yes, ma'am. You may continue.

648
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,080
>> From those of us sitting on

649
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,080
the sidelines, it is clear that

650
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,080
negotiations may have already

651
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,080
started with whatever perks and

652
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,080
promises these may produce.

653
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,080
Shame on you who have failed to

654
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,080
reach out --

655
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,080
>> Point of order, we are not

656
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,080
taking perks and promises.

657
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,040
>> This is a preamble. Is this a

658
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,040
preamble to your question? Much

659
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,040
like Miss Weaver's preamble. Or

660
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,040
Mr. Fréchette's. This is much

661
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,040
like Mr. Frechette's -- like

662
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,040
Mrs. weaver's preamble. It pales

663
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,040
in comparison. Go straight to

664
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,040
the question.

665
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,040
>> So sensitive about what I'm

666
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,040
saying.

667
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,040
>> It's not true, that's why.

668
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,040
It's not. True some of you have

669
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,040
already entered into

670
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,040
negotiations. No. This was about

671
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,040
seven sentences ago. And now

672
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,040
you've reiterated that and

673
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,040
mentioned perks. Neither of

674
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,040
those things are true. None of

675
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,040
us have accepted -- except for

676
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,040
the mayor -- have ever met with

677
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,040
Cadillac Fairview. It's patently

678
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040
untrue. That's the first thing

679
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,040
you said untrue. We can go with

680
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,040
the video if he would like,

681
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,040
although you are reading, I'm

682
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,040
sure you can see it in front of

683
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,040
you. Once again, it's a point of

684
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,000
privilege.

685
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,000
>> Councillor Stainforth, nobody

686
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,000
up here has ever met in any way,

687
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,000
shape, or form --

688
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,000
representatives of Cadillac

689
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
Fairview. You are willing to go

690
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,000
on record you've never done

691
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000
that?

692
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,000
>> Yeah.

693
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,000
>> Okay.

694
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000
>> We've been in the same

695
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,000
location.

696
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,000
>> Not socially, not outside of

697
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:24,000
your workplace? Anybody? Are you

698
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,000
going to deny all that? Yes,

699
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000
ma'am. Would you like to

700
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,000
continue?

701
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,000
>> And now I'm probably not

702
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,000
allowed to say whatever I want

703
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,000
to say.

704
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,000
>> If you can imply it, you can

705
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,000
ask a question.

706
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,000
>> My question was going to be

707
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000
for Mr. Cowan. I was going to

708
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,000
preface it by saying there was

709
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,000
no need to attack, divert, or

710
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,000
extrapolate, and just honestly

711
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,000
answer my question. Simply, have

712
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000
you, Mr. Cowan, have any contact

713
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000
with any personnel of Cadillac

714
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,060
Fairview, either by email, text

715
00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:06,060
messages, telephone

716
00:26:06,060 --> 00:26:09,060
conversations, or in person

717
00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:11,060
meetings within the last six

718
00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:12,060
months? It's a yes or no. Thank

719
00:26:12,060 --> 00:26:15,060
you so much for listening to me.

720
00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:16,060
>> You want me to give the

721
00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:18,060
answer?

722
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:20,060
>> I don't have the stand there.

723
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:23,060
>> Of course.

724
00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:26,060
>> Of course what?

725
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:27,060
>> Of course, I talk to

726
00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:28,060
everybody. I talk to all my

727
00:26:28,060 --> 00:26:29,060
citizens. I talk to anybody who

728
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:33,060
is going to call me. That's what

729
00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:35,060
I do. That's why I am an elected

730
00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:39,060
representative everybody.

731
00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:40,060
>> Did Cadillac Fairview elect

732
00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:44,060
you?

733
00:26:44,060 --> 00:26:47,060
>> I will answer as well. I may

734
00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:48,060
have confirmed reception of an

735
00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:52,060
email at some point in time.

736
00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:57,060
>> Mr. the point?

737
00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:00,020
>>

738
00:27:00,020 --> 00:27:02,020
- Je voudrais lire le Règlement

739
00:27:02,020 --> 00:27:04,020
numéro 53. Résolution adoptée

740
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:06,020
par le conseil et les

741
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:09,020
obligations des contrats qui

742
00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:12,020
sont présentées au maire par le

743
00:27:12,020 --> 00:27:16,020
greffier dans les... 26

744
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:17,020
heures...

745
00:27:17,020 --> 00:27:18,020
- 96. En

746
00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:20,020
- 96 un, excusez. Suivant les

747
00:27:20,020 --> 00:27:21,020
adoption et là approbation. Si

748
00:27:21,020 --> 00:27:24,020
dans ce délai, le maire avise le

749
00:27:24,020 --> 00:27:26,020
greffier qu'il ne l'approuvent

750
00:27:26,020 --> 00:27:30,020
pas, celui-ci seuls les soumet

751
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:33,020
de nouveau au Conseil, la séance

752
00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:36,020
suivante, pour les considérer

753
00:27:36,020 --> 00:27:38,020
d'urgence ou en priorité. Alors,

754
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:42,020
ce soir, c'est pour la prochaine

755
00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:44,020
séance du conseil. Alors, je

756
00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:46,020
demande que la résolution soit

757
00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:47,020
reporté à la prochaine réunion.

758
00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:50,020
C'est selon la loi.

759
00:27:50,020 --> 00:27:52,020
- Oui, absolument.

760
00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:55,020
- Alors, la prochaine séance...

761
00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:57,020
quand la loi utilise le mot

762
00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:59,020
séance seule, c'est soit une

763
00:27:59,020 --> 00:28:00,080
séance ordinaire où

764
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080
extraordinaire. Quand c'est

765
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,080
extraordinaire, on le précise

766
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,080
dans la loi. Alors, le mot

767
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,080
séances dans la Loi sur les

768
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,080
cités et villes est utilisée

769
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,080
seul, il signifie séance

770
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,080
extraordinaire ou ordinaire.

771
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,080
Alors, la prochaine séance, dans

772
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,080
le cas qui nous occupe, c'est ce

773
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,080
soir.

774
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,080
- Mais c'est le maire qu'il a

775
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,080
reporté cette journée-là.

776
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,080
- Non.

777
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,080
- La loi... vous aviez lu

778
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,080
l'article 53 de l'ordre sur les

779
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,080
cités et villes, et ce que la

780
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,080
loi prévoit, c'est que si le

781
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,080
maire m'avise... avise le

782
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,080
greffier de la ville qu'il

783
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,080
n'approuve pas une résolution où

784
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,080
les résolutions, le greffier

785
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,080
doit, à ce moment-là, les

786
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,080
soumettre au conseil à nouveau à

787
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,080
laisser en ce qui suit et cette

788
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,080
résolution-là est traiter

789
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,080
d'urgence, en priorité à l'ordre

790
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,080
du jour. C'est ce qu'on a dit.

791
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,080
- O.K.. Merci.

792
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,080
- Merci, Monsieur Lapointe.

793
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,080
Alors, c'est intéressant.

794
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,080
- Ma deuxième question...

795
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,080
- O.K..

796
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,040
- On a une période de questions

797
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,040
qui dure 1 heure 30. Au dernier

798
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,040
meeting, on a passé à peu près

799
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,040
30, 40 minutes avec les

800
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,040
conseillers à argumenter. Alors,

801
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,040
je crois que la période des

802
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,040
questions devrait être prolongée

803
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,040
pour compenser pour le temps que

804
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,040
les conseillers se dispute entre

805
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,040
eux.

806
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,040
- C'est le maire qui décide du

807
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,040
début et de la fin.

808
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,040
- C'est moi qui décide. On a 90

809
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,040
minutes comme toujours.

810
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,040
- Mais si vous parlez une

811
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,040
demi-heure de temps, les

812
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,040
citoyens n'ont plus de temps.

813
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,040
- Oui, c'est vrai. Vous avez

814
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,040
raison, monsieur Lapointe. C'est

815
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,040
un bon argument. J'entends bien.

816
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,040
C'est mieux les citoyens que...

817
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,040
on

818
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,040
- Va mettre une minuterie, et on

819
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,040
va ajouter après.

820
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,040
- C'est intéressant. C'est un

821
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,040
argument intéressant. Monsieur

822
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,040
le point, c'est une autre

823
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,040
observation. C'est intéressant

824
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,040
qu'on ait cette réunion à cause,

825
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,040
supposément, de la faiblesse de

826
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,040
la façon le... veto que j'ai

827
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,000
utilisé. Mais on a la preuve que

828
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,000
ce n'est pas le cas, alors la

829
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,000
raison que l'on a, la réunion,

830
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,000
elle est fausse. Complètement

831
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
fausse. J'ai utilisé le veto

832
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,000
dans une façon complètement

833
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,000
légale, parfaitement. Merci.

834
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000
>> Good evening, my name is

835
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Sandra Maggie, Pointe-Claire,

836
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000
district two. Like Mr. ably, I

837
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
am concerned about climate

838
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
change. Mr. Councillor

839
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,000
Thorstad-Cullen you said you are

840
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000
a part of the sustainable

841
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,000
committee and the protection of

842
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,000
forests and biodiversity is a

843
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,000
priority. Like they say, actions

844
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,000
speak louder than words.

845
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,000
>> Can I respond to that? I'm

846
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,000
responding to the person.

847
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,000
>> She's not finished yet.

848
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,000
>> Can I respond to the first

849
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,000
part? There are some sustainable

850
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,000
principles that feel -- and we

851
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,000
will discuss them so praying

852
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000
these when we have our public

853
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,000
precipitation, in certain areas

854
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,060
if you go higher, it is

855
00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:02,060
suggesting or mandating that we

856
00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:04,060
have to have a certain amount of

857
00:31:04,060 --> 00:31:05,060
development in the city. We need

858
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:07,060
to optimize that, make it as

859
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:09,060
sustainable as possible to save

860
00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:11,060
as much green space as possible.

861
00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:13,060
I understand the perception may

862
00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:14,060
look like, oh, we don't care.

863
00:31:14,060 --> 00:31:16,060
The perception from where I

864
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:18,060
stand, I want to be sustainable

865
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:19,060
as possible. Some people say the

866
00:31:19,060 --> 00:31:20,060
higher you go, that's more

867
00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:21,060
sustainable. We want all the

868
00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:23,060
facts. We want all the

869
00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:25,060
information, we want it all to

870
00:31:25,060 --> 00:31:27,060
make an influence decision, what

871
00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:28,060
sustainable means will be

872
00:31:28,060 --> 00:31:29,060
different between any person

873
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:30,060
sitting in this room. We want

874
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:31,060
all that information at the

875
00:31:31,060 --> 00:31:33,060
table. I want to correct. I

876
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:35,060
don't want to imply that I'm not

877
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:36,060
about sustainable development.

878
00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:38,060
Thank you.

879
00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:39,060
>> You can can continue with

880
00:31:39,060 --> 00:31:41,060
your preamble.

881
00:31:41,060 --> 00:31:42,060
>> My understanding is there is

882
00:31:42,060 --> 00:31:44,060
a freeze on the property by the

883
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:48,060
CMA. I am wondering if this

884
00:31:48,060 --> 00:31:52,060
resolution passes, as you have

885
00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:53,060
requested, does that

886
00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:54,060
automatically remove Cadillac

887
00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:56,060
Fairview from that freeze?

888
00:31:56,060 --> 00:31:59,060
>> No.

889
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:01,020
>> Anybody? Else no.

890
00:32:01,020 --> 00:32:02,020
>> It's automatically removal.

891
00:32:02,020 --> 00:32:05,020
>> I can speak.

892
00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:06,020
>> Can you elaborate on yet,

893
00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:08,020
please?

894
00:32:08,020 --> 00:32:11,020
>> The process that has been

895
00:32:11,020 --> 00:32:13,020
designed will allow a

896
00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:14,020
comprehensive development plan

897
00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:17,020
to work towards a comprehensive

898
00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:18,020
development plan at which time

899
00:32:18,020 --> 00:32:23,020
it will happen. Prior to,

900
00:32:23,020 --> 00:32:25,020
sufficient, in my opinion,

901
00:32:25,020 --> 00:32:26,020
public participation. What is

902
00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:27,020
disturbing about the resolution

903
00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:30,020
tonight is that it allows the

904
00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:32,020
public precipitation process to

905
00:32:32,020 --> 00:32:34,020
be controlled by the City in

906
00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:35,020
conjunction with the developer

907
00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:37,020
as opposed to vice versa. I

908
00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:38,020
would prefer to have the

909
00:32:38,020 --> 00:32:41,020
participation first.

910
00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:43,020
>> That is false. That is false.

911
00:32:43,020 --> 00:32:44,020
That is false.

912
00:32:44,020 --> 00:32:45,020
>> Mayor Thomas, you

913
00:32:45,020 --> 00:32:47,020
specifically just said that your

914
00:32:47,020 --> 00:32:50,020
belief is that -- before any

915
00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:52,020
public participate participation

916
00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:54,020
which is absolutely false. It is

917
00:32:54,020 --> 00:32:55,020
a bum matter of record. You just

918
00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:56,020
said. That

919
00:32:56,020 --> 00:32:57,020
>> Public participation has to

920
00:32:57,020 --> 00:33:01,080
be defined. Some of us the final

921
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,080
public participation in a

922
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,080
completely different manner.

923
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,080
>> May I speak?

924
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,080
>> Would you please share your

925
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,080
definition that you shared with

926
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,080
all of Council f of late

927
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,080
participation versus public

928
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,080
consultation as well as and the

929
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,080
information pertaining how and

930
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,080
when this CP would become

931
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,080
enacted by law and --

932
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,080
>> From my understanding, from

933
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,080
my understanding, we are in

934
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,080
question period here. It's not

935
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,080
the Councillors who have to ask

936
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,080
questions. It's the citizens who

937
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,080
are to ask questions. From what

938
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,080
I understand, from what Mr. low

939
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,080
point was suggesting in

940
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,080
replying, last, time last

941
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,080
question period was dominated by

942
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,080
councillors as it is starting to

943
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,080
happen tonight as well so I

944
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,080
would like to hear, I would like

945
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,080
to hear -- absolutely. I would

946
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,080
like to hear from the citizens,

947
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,080
I would like to hear from the

948
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,080
citizens.

949
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,040
>> Actually outlined the actual

950
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,040
answers.

951
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,040
>> You don't want them to know?

952
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,040
>> You don't want them to know

953
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,040
the truth. I want them to know

954
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,040
all the truth. All the truth. I

955
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,040
would love you all to know all

956
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,040
the truth. Please inquire. We

957
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,040
are in a meeting right now based

958
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,040
on a veto I supposedly used

959
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,040
illegally and --

960
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,040
>> Improperly.

961
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,040
>> Improperly. I bring to you a

962
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,040
gazette article and the

963
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,040
Municipal code suggesting

964
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,040
otherwise. Who are you going to

965
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,040
believe? Tonight will we have a

966
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,040
debate over credibility? Will we

967
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,040
go to questions from the

968
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,040
citizens? Please, ma'am, go

969
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,040
ahead.

970
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,040
>> Thank you very much. I was

971
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,040
also wondering, does the

972
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,040
resolution remove Cadillac

973
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,040
Fairview from public

974
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,040
participation, including the

975
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,040
urban plan?

976
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,040
>> There is a conversation

977
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,040
going. On I can't really hear

978
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,040
you.

979
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,040
>> Sorry. I will repeat the

980
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,040
question. Will this resolution

981
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,040
also remove Cadillac Fairview

982
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,040
from public participation

983
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,040
included in the reopening of the

984
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,040
urban plan?

985
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,040
>> No. They will be a functional

986
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,040
part of it.

987
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,040
>> Okay. Thank you.

988
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,000
>> Mister Mayor, I would like a

989
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000
moment to be able to speak to

990
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,000
some of the points that have

991
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000
been raised either in question

992
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,000
period or here at the table. It

993
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,000
is a statement to read

994
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,000
reflective of my perspective on

995
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:15,000
this process, if you allow me.

996
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,000
Will you allow me, Mister Mayor?

997
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000
>> Absolutely.

998
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,000
>> The reason I'm doing this is

999
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,000
I think it's important that I

1000
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000
clearly state my position in

1001
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,000
terms of why I voted against the

1002
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
resolution. There were a number

1003
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,000
of questions asked.

1004
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,000
>> Point of order. That's when

1005
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,000
we vote for it.

1006
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,000
>> Councillor Cowan! Councillor

1007
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Cowan! Councillor Cowan!

1008
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,000
>> You just said you were, I am

1009
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,000
stating my position on some of

1010
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,000
the questions that have been

1011
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,000
asked. I have the right to speak

1012
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000
as anybody else.

1013
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,000
- Cette résolution, d'après moi,

1014
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,000
a produit des dommages

1015
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,060
collatéraux de toutes sortes.

1016
00:36:00,060 --> 00:36:02,060
Elle a créé des nouvelles

1017
00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:03,060
divisions dans notre ville, elle

1018
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:05,060
a écourté le travail stratégique

1019
00:36:05,060 --> 00:36:07,060
du Conseil de l'administration

1020
00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:09,060
et a introduit un possible

1021
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:11,060
risque rue juridiques et a mis à

1022
00:36:11,060 --> 00:36:13,060
mal la démocratie municipale et,

1023
00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:15,060
par intérêt politique, elle a

1024
00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:17,060
peut-être menotté la ville pour

1025
00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:18,060
de nombreuses années dans le

1026
00:36:18,060 --> 00:36:19,060
domaine de la participation

1027
00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:23,060
citoyenne. La résolution est

1028
00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:24,060
également prématuré. La

1029
00:36:24,060 --> 00:36:27,060
réflexion du conseil sur la

1030
00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:28,060
participation citoyenne n'en a

1031
00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:32,060
qu'à ses débuts. Il y a encore

1032
00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:33,060
beaucoup de travail à faire

1033
00:36:33,060 --> 00:36:34,060
avant que nous puissions

1034
00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:35,060
commencer à communiquer

1035
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:39,060
correctement avec les citoyens.

1036
00:36:39,060 --> 00:36:41,060
Les promoteurs et autres sur la

1037
00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:42,060
façon dont nous proposons

1038
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:46,060
d'aller de l'avant. Je crois que

1039
00:36:47,060 --> 00:36:48,060
nous aurions eu une telle

1040
00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:50,060
histoire à raconter, mais dans

1041
00:36:50,060 --> 00:36:52,060
la hâte d'être transparent et de

1042
00:36:52,060 --> 00:36:53,060
matraquer le maire

1043
00:36:53,060 --> 00:36:55,060
politiquement, nous avons

1044
00:36:55,060 --> 00:36:56,060
peut-être maintenant assurer que

1045
00:36:56,060 --> 00:36:58,060
nous serons dans un débat

1046
00:36:58,060 --> 00:37:00,020
permanent sur les décisions de

1047
00:37:00,020 --> 00:37:01,020
planification et de la façon

1048
00:37:01,020 --> 00:37:02,020
dont les développements seront

1049
00:37:02,020 --> 00:37:05,020
organisées à l'avenir. Il y a

1050
00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:08,020
une grande différence entre la

1051
00:37:08,020 --> 00:37:09,020
participation citoyenne et la

1052
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:12,020
consultation citoyenne. La

1053
00:37:12,020 --> 00:37:13,020
participation offre aux citoyens

1054
00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:15,020
une implication directe dans le

1055
00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:20,020
processus décisionnel.

1056
00:37:23,020 --> 00:37:25,020
Il s'agit d'événements à long

1057
00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:26,020
terme qui prennent la forme de

1058
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:29,020
comité ou de groupe de travail,

1059
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:31,020
les consultations, quand, elle

1060
00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:32,020
vise simplement à obtenir notre

1061
00:37:32,020 --> 00:37:35,020
avis, votre avis, ateliers d'un

1062
00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:37,020
jour, questions et réponses,

1063
00:37:37,020 --> 00:37:38,020
tables rondes, merci d'être

1064
00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:40,020
venu, vous avez confirmé notre

1065
00:37:40,020 --> 00:37:42,020
décision. C'est ce que vous avez

1066
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:43,020
c'est... ce que vous obtenez

1067
00:37:43,020 --> 00:37:46,020
dans le cadre des obligations

1068
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:47,020
légales d'un plan de Gainey

1069
00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:48,020
majeur ont ensemble, par

1070
00:37:48,020 --> 00:37:51,020
exemple. La participation

1071
00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:53,020
citoyenne est un choix du

1072
00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:54,020
conseil sans obligation forme

1073
00:37:54,020 --> 00:37:56,020
dans la loi. Elle devient de

1074
00:37:56,020 --> 00:37:58,020
plus en plus un outil privilégié

1075
00:37:58,020 --> 00:38:00,080
des villes, car elle met tout le

1076
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,080
monde sur la même longueur

1077
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080
d'onde. Elle est équitable et

1078
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,080
permet d'éliminer les

1079
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,080
complexités dès le départ.

1080
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,080
Alors, cette résolution propose

1081
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,080
implicitement une approche

1082
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,080
partagée dans la création d'un

1083
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,080
temps de participation

1084
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,080
citoyenne, une démarche

1085
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,080
mutuellement accepte Haas. Je ne

1086
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,080
peux pas accepter cette

1087
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,080
proposition. Elle injecte un

1088
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,080
parti pris évident qui pénalise

1089
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,080
les citoyens.

1090
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,080
Une personne qui possède une

1091
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,080
maison de 400000 dollars, elle a

1092
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,080
les mêmes droits qu'une personne

1093
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,080
qui possède un immeuble de 10

1094
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,080
millions de dollars. Notre DG

1095
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,080
va-t-elle rencontrer les

1096
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,080
résidents pour le demander ce

1097
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,080
qu'elle pense de notre plan de

1098
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,080
participation naissante? Non.

1099
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,080
Des gens, certains conseillers,

1100
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,080
s'opposent à un comité citoyen

1101
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,080
était pour une participation

1102
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,080
plus imposant des conseillers.

1103
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,080
Et si un promoteur est d'accord

1104
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,040
avec cette approche parce qu'ils

1105
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,040
pensent que ça va le favoriser,

1106
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,040
devinez comment ce vote

1107
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,040
mutuellement acceptables va se

1108
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,040
dérouler. On passera à l'heure

1109
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,040
de la participation à la

1110
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,040
consultation. La raison pour

1111
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,040
laquelle j'ai voté contre.

1112
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,040
>> I will try to be quicker in

1113
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,040
English to catch up on question

1114
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,040
period. This resolution is

1115
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,040
irresponsible and has produced,

1116
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,040
in my opinion, collateral damage

1117
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,040
of all kinds. This created

1118
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,040
further division in our city,

1119
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,040
short circuited of the strategic

1120
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,040
work of Council and the

1121
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,040
administration, it introduces

1122
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,040
possible legal risks, it has run

1123
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,040
roughshod over municipal

1124
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,040
democracy, political gain has

1125
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,040
possibly handcuffed in the city

1126
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,040
for many years to come in the

1127
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,040
area of public participation.

1128
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,040
The resolution is also

1129
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,040
premature. Councils public

1130
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:51,040
participation thinking remains

1131
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,040
in the early stages. There's

1132
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,040
still a lot of work to be done

1133
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,040
before we can begin to properly

1134
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,040
communicate with citizens,

1135
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,040
developers, and others on how we

1136
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,000
propose to move forward. I

1137
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,000
believe we would've had a very

1138
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,000
good story to tell. But in a

1139
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000
rush to be transparent and

1140
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,000
bludgeoned the Mayor

1141
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,000
politically, we may have now

1142
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000
ensured we will be in a

1143
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,000
permanent debate over planning

1144
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,000
decisions and how the

1145
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,000
developments are staged in the

1146
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,000
future. There is a difference

1147
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,000
between political -- sorry,

1148
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,000
there is a difference between

1149
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,000
public participation and public

1150
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,000
consultation. Participation

1151
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,000
offers a direct involvement in

1152
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,000
decision-making process for

1153
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000
citizens. Very are long term

1154
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,000
events that take the form of

1155
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
committees or task forces.

1156
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,000
Consultations, on the other

1157
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,000
hand, simply seek your opinion,

1158
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,000
your advice. They workshops,

1159
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,000
Q&As. Thanks for coming. You

1160
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,000
have confirmed our decision.

1161
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,000
This is what you get in the

1162
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,000
legal obligations, of the

1163
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,000
comprehensive development plan

1164
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,000
process, for example. Public

1165
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,000
participation is Council's

1166
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,000
choice. There are no legal

1167
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,000
obligations under the law to

1168
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,000
offer such a program. It is

1169
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:57,000
increasingly becoming a

1170
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,000
favourite tool of cities because

1171
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,000
it puts everyone on the same

1172
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:04,060
page. It's equitable. It gets

1173
00:41:04,060 --> 00:41:05,060
the complexities out of the way

1174
00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:07,060
at the beginning. And this

1175
00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:09,060
resolution implicitly proposes

1176
00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:10,060
or subtly suggests joint

1177
00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:12,060
ownership in the creation of a

1178
00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:16,060
par bleak participation plan, a

1179
00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:17,060
mutually agreeable path forward.

1180
00:41:17,060 --> 00:41:19,060
I can't accept that. It injects

1181
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:21,060
a bias and shortchanges

1182
00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:23,060
citizens. Someone who owns a

1183
00:41:23,060 --> 00:41:25,060
400,000 dollar home is someone

1184
00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:26,060
with the same rights as someone

1185
00:41:26,060 --> 00:41:30,060
who owns a 10 million dollar --

1186
00:41:30,060 --> 00:41:32,060
was they think of our embryonic

1187
00:41:32,060 --> 00:41:34,060
participation plan? No. Already,

1188
00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:36,060
certain councils are objecting

1189
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:38,060
to's fewer citizens committee

1190
00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:39,060
and arguing for more opposing

1191
00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:42,060
Councillor involvement. What if

1192
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:43,060
a developer agrees with that

1193
00:41:43,060 --> 00:41:44,060
approach because he thinks it

1194
00:41:44,060 --> 00:41:46,060
will favour him? Guess how that

1195
00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:48,060
mutually agreeable vote will go.

1196
00:41:48,060 --> 00:41:49,060
The next thing you know, we've

1197
00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:50,060
gone from participation to

1198
00:41:50,060 --> 00:41:54,060
consultation. These are some of

1199
00:41:54,060 --> 00:41:55,060
the reasons why I voted no

1200
00:41:55,060 --> 00:41:57,060
against that process.

1201
00:41:57,060 --> 00:41:59,060
[Applause]

1202
00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:02,020
>> Thank you.

1203
00:42:02,020 --> 00:42:04,020
>> Mister Thomas, that was

1204
00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:05,020
really useful and excellent

1205
00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:09,020
speech. Unfortunately, it

1206
00:42:09,020 --> 00:42:10,020
would've been much better said

1207
00:42:10,020 --> 00:42:11,020
somewhere within the last five

1208
00:42:11,020 --> 00:42:12,020
months when we were actually

1209
00:42:12,020 --> 00:42:16,020
discussing all this and we

1210
00:42:16,020 --> 00:42:17,020
agreed to proceed with this

1211
00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:19,020
path. Why did you not say event?

1212
00:42:19,020 --> 00:42:20,020
Why did you not -- why did you

1213
00:42:20,020 --> 00:42:23,020
not do it?

1214
00:42:23,020 --> 00:42:24,020
>> Point of privilege, Mister

1215
00:42:24,020 --> 00:42:26,020
Mayor?

1216
00:42:26,020 --> 00:42:28,020
>> Hang on. Councillor Cowan,

1217
00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:29,020
you are not sharing this

1218
00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:33,020
meeting, okay? Can Councillor

1219
00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:34,020
Tremblay respond now and we can

1220
00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:35,020
move on to Mr. logo?

1221
00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:36,020
>> I would more than happily

1222
00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:40,020
respond to that. First of all,

1223
00:42:40,020 --> 00:42:41,020
your proposal, which came over

1224
00:42:41,020 --> 00:42:45,020
the holidays, to get into a

1225
00:42:45,020 --> 00:42:47,020
resolution on this, came

1226
00:42:47,020 --> 00:42:51,020
quickly. I think it was the

1227
00:42:51,020 --> 00:42:52,020
first or second week of January

1228
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:53,020
when you wanted to move ahead

1229
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:55,020
with the proposal. We spoke on

1230
00:42:55,020 --> 00:42:56,020
the phone. I believe it was a

1231
00:42:56,020 --> 00:42:58,020
necessary at the time. I thought

1232
00:42:58,020 --> 00:43:00,080
we were making some progress in

1233
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,080
the meetings we have. We have

1234
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,080
meetings generally together. I

1235
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,080
find those meetings go well. I

1236
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:06,080
find -- allow me to answer

1237
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,080
before you shake your head.

1238
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,080
>> Cans Councillor Tremblay

1239
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,080
please talk? You have talked

1240
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,080
extensively for the last two

1241
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,080
meetings. Could you let

1242
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,080
Councillor Tremblay talk? I

1243
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:21,080
would like Councillor Tremblay

1244
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:26,080
to talk. He's answering

1245
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,080
Councillor Cowan. Then we are

1246
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,080
getting back to question period.

1247
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,080
>> I will answer his question

1248
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,080
and let it go to question

1249
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,080
period. I don't want to take too

1250
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,080
much time.

1251
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,080
>> He asked me a question. I

1252
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,080
asked if I could answer.

1253
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,080
>> Please continue, Councillor

1254
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,080
Tremblay. I know it's not easy.

1255
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,080
>> The problem is the resolution

1256
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,080
was dropped. We had a discussion

1257
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,080
as to whether or not the mandate

1258
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,080
should have been in place. The

1259
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,080
resolution was being discussed

1260
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,080
before we had seen the mandate.

1261
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,080
Once I was able to see the

1262
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,040
mandate letter and other

1263
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,040
documents I don't want to raise

1264
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,040
here do for reasons of caucus --

1265
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,040
I thought we were entering into

1266
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,040
a dangerous strategic path by

1267
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,040
adopting this resolution. I

1268
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,040
thought hard about this. I

1269
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,040
believe it's important that we

1270
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,040
have communication with all

1271
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,040
parties involved. Through a

1272
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,040
public parse participation path

1273
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,040
that would include developers,

1274
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,040
experts, and others. I've been

1275
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,040
more than willing to discuss it.

1276
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,040
In the last caucus meeting we

1277
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,040
had, I was heckled. I was told,

1278
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,040
delay, delay, delay. I didn't

1279
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,040
have an opportunity. You wave

1280
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,040
your hands at me and said you

1281
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,040
didn't want to hear from me

1282
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,040
anymore. What am I to say? I

1283
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,040
would more than happily have

1284
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,040
this taken off the table and

1285
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,040
discuss it in a caucus meeting

1286
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,040
appropriately. We could at

1287
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,040
length go through the ups and

1288
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,040
downs of doing this kind of

1289
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:51,040
process. That's where I met. In

1290
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,040
honesty, that's the direction I

1291
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,040
took.

1292
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,040
>> Mr. logo?

1293
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,040
- Monsieur Legault, vous étiez

1294
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,040
là longtemps. Je -- m'excuse.

1295
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,000
Merci pour votre patience.

1296
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,000
- Monsieur Thomas demande aux

1297
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,000
citoyens d'agir avec décorum,

1298
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,000
mais je regarde les conseiller,

1299
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,000
là, et je trouve que vous parlez

1300
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,000
quand c'est pas votre. Tour vous

1301
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,000
parlez par-dessus le maire.

1302
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,000
Votre compotes E ment, c'est

1303
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,000
honteux!

1304
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,000
(applaudissements)

1305
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,000
>> Keith Kelly. I'm not a

1306
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,000
speaker, I'm not highly

1307
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,000
educated. I would like to talk

1308
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,000
about -- however, I am a

1309
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,000
lifetime resident of

1310
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,000
Pointe-Claire. Mister Mayor and

1311
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Councillor, I am very, very

1312
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,000
disappointed in the council

1313
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,000
taken action today. I have never

1314
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
seen anything like it. The back

1315
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,000
room, when it was there, and

1316
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,000
where it was before, that's

1317
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,000
where the discussions took

1318
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,000
place. Unfortunately, that's not

1319
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,060
the case. It's very evident here

1320
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:05,060
today. Now, Mayor, you were

1321
00:46:06,060 --> 00:46:08,060
elected. You got 21 votes, or 61

1322
00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:12,060
vote, whatever it was, while the

1323
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:13,060
population of about 20,000

1324
00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:17,060
people -- that goes to show the

1325
00:46:17,060 --> 00:46:18,060
people here aren't out their

1326
00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:20,060
voting like they should be. We

1327
00:46:20,060 --> 00:46:25,060
need to change, that was your

1328
00:46:25,060 --> 00:46:26,060
proposition. I agree. We need a

1329
00:46:26,060 --> 00:46:30,060
change. Now, I personally think

1330
00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:32,060
lately and with some of the

1331
00:46:32,060 --> 00:46:34,060
changes that were made, and

1332
00:46:34,060 --> 00:46:36,060
perhaps more close to me, some

1333
00:46:36,060 --> 00:46:38,060
of the changes made with of the

1334
00:46:38,060 --> 00:46:39,060
condo in Pointe-Claire village.

1335
00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:41,060
I was born in the village. I

1336
00:46:41,060 --> 00:46:44,060
think it's a disaster.

1337
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:49,060
Unfortunately, it happened. The

1338
00:46:49,060 --> 00:46:51,060
parking lot as well and was

1339
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:52,060
lost. The local merchants last

1340
00:46:52,060 --> 00:46:54,060
that.

1341
00:46:54,060 --> 00:46:58,060
>> Point of order. I'm sorry

1342
00:46:58,060 --> 00:46:59,060
This has nothing to do with

1343
00:46:59,060 --> 00:47:00,020
what's on the agenda.

1344
00:47:00,020 --> 00:47:02,020
>> Is your preamble --

1345
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:03,020
>> The preamble --

1346
00:47:03,020 --> 00:47:07,020
>> What is the subject matter of

1347
00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:09,020
the question, sorry Mr. Kelly to

1348
00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:10,020
interrupt?

1349
00:47:10,020 --> 00:47:13,020
>> -- which would appear to be

1350
00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:15,020
-- we want to slow down, I agree

1351
00:47:15,020 --> 00:47:17,020
we have to slow down and have

1352
00:47:17,020 --> 00:47:21,020
some control. The Mayor and

1353
00:47:21,020 --> 00:47:22,020
Council -- the Mayor and two

1354
00:47:22,020 --> 00:47:24,020
councillors came into this

1355
00:47:24,020 --> 00:47:26,020
committee and were involved.

1356
00:47:26,020 --> 00:47:27,020
That's not the first time people

1357
00:47:27,020 --> 00:47:30,020
have come to the Council and

1358
00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:31,020
haven't been able to get along.

1359
00:47:31,020 --> 00:47:33,020
Unfortunately, it hasn't worked.

1360
00:47:33,020 --> 00:47:36,020
Some changes are bit desperately

1361
00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:38,020
needed. The general consensus of

1362
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:40,020
the public's we would like and

1363
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:42,020
poet in what we're doing and I

1364
00:47:42,020 --> 00:47:44,020
think this resolution does that.

1365
00:47:44,020 --> 00:47:46,020
As I understand it.

1366
00:47:46,020 --> 00:47:49,020
Unfortunately, our new city

1367
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:50,020
managers got stuck with the job

1368
00:47:50,020 --> 00:47:52,020
to do it and that's a part of

1369
00:47:52,020 --> 00:47:56,020
life, I guess. And I see these

1370
00:47:56,020 --> 00:47:58,020
resolutions in every way. Last

1371
00:47:58,020 --> 00:48:01,080
of all, my question is, I'd like

1372
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,080
the answer -- Councillor

1373
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,080
Stanford's question that she

1374
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,080
asked Council earlier tonight.

1375
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,080
>> She asked Council or --

1376
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,080
madame Verdun? Madame Verdun,

1377
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,080
you want to answer the question

1378
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,080
that Councillor force with asked

1379
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,080
to her? No, that's okay.

1380
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,080
>> It's okay, I can -- the

1381
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,080
difference between public

1382
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,080
participation and public

1383
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,080
consultation, the public I like

1384
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,080
to call the citizen

1385
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,080
participation in the public

1386
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,080
participation just to make sure

1387
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,080
that -- process is non monetary,

1388
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,080
it's unlike other public

1389
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,080
station. It's part of the way

1390
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,080
that we added by law in the

1391
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,080
urban planner. And the citizen

1392
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,080
participation is the result of a

1393
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,080
political wheel. So it's really,

1394
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,080
you know, something that we can

1395
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,080
do with county or some workshop

1396
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,080
and stuff like that. The City

1397
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,080
Council will provide to the

1398
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:02,040
citizen. The public consultation

1399
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,040
is mostly, you, know in the

1400
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,040
bylaw for example each by law in

1401
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,040
urban planning in public

1402
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,040
consultation, some of them also

1403
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,040
in the public consultation can

1404
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,040
lead to a referendum.

1405
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,040
>> Yes, Mister casino?

1406
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,040
Vous

1407
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,040
- Voulez voir en français aussi?

1408
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,040
- Oui.

1409
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,040
- Je peux te dire, pas de

1410
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,040
problème. Ça va être un peu

1411
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,040
différent, parce que j'ai pas

1412
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,040
lu. Donc, c'est une traduction

1413
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,040
libre. La participation

1414
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,040
citoyenne, c'est un processus

1415
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,040
qui n'est pas obligatoire par la

1416
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,040
loi. C'est un processus qui,

1417
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,040
dans le fond, vraiment, résulte

1418
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,040
d'une volonté politique d'aller

1419
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,040
consulter... consulter les

1420
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,040
citoyens. Aller chercher

1421
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,040
l'opinion citoyenne. Ça peut

1422
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,040
être par des comités, des

1423
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:47,040
ateliers de travail, différentes

1424
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,040
choses. Tandis que des

1425
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,040
consultations publiques, c'est

1426
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,040
vraiment un processus légal, la,

1427
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,040
qui est enchâssé dans la loi au

1428
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,040
niveau de l'urbanisme, et

1429
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,040
certains types de consultations

1430
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,000
publiques qui vont mener, aussi,

1431
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,000
à un référendum.

1432
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,000
>> Can I just ask for a

1433
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,000
clarification?

1434
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,000
>> No, that's okay Councillor

1435
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,000
Stainforth. We are going to get

1436
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,000
-- we've delayed it until now.

1437
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,000
You've got to give it to you.

1438
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,000
Now we are going to Mr.

1439
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,000
Cousineau, your question please?

1440
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,000
- Merci. J'aurais pas besoin de

1441
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,000
me nommer. J'adresse la question

1442
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,000
à vous, Monsieur le Maire. Je

1443
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,000
l'adresse en français parce

1444
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,000
qu'il est assez direct. Si vous

1445
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,000
voulez me répondre en anglais,

1446
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,000
soyez bien à l'aise. Je

1447
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,000
comprends la langue de

1448
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,000
Shakespeare moyennement bien. Ma

1449
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,000
question est: quelle est votre

1450
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,000
compréhension d'un CD B?

1451
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,000
- C'est un processus

1452
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,000
intermédiaire, et c'est une

1453
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,000
négociation qui inclut les

1454
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,000
conseillers pour elle la

1455
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,000
création du plan avec le

1456
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,060
développement, qui inclut le

1457
00:51:00,060 --> 00:51:04,060
Conseil plus que le RCI. O.K.,

1458
00:51:04,060 --> 00:51:06,060
merci.

1459
00:51:06,060 --> 00:51:09,060
>> No, you can't. No. I would

1460
00:51:09,060 --> 00:51:10,060
like -- is there another

1461
00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:11,060
question, Mr. casino?

1462
00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:13,060
- Oui, il y a une autre

1463
00:51:13,060 --> 00:51:15,060
question, parce qu'on a pas la

1464
00:51:15,060 --> 00:51:16,060
même interprétation, quoi que

1465
00:51:16,060 --> 00:51:17,060
vous ayez donné les grandes

1466
00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:22,060
lignes, mais ce qui circule sur

1467
00:51:22,060 --> 00:51:25,060
le Web, Facebook et compagnie...

1468
00:51:25,060 --> 00:51:26,060
- Beaucoup circulent.

1469
00:51:26,060 --> 00:51:29,060
- Oui, beaucoup. Ma question

1470
00:51:29,060 --> 00:51:30,060
est, d'abord, pourquoi est-ce

1471
00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:33,060
qu'on est ici?

1472
00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:36,060
- On est ici parce que un groupe

1473
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:38,060
de conseillers pensent qu'on a

1474
00:51:38,060 --> 00:51:40,060
été trop lent avec la création

1475
00:51:40,060 --> 00:51:44,060
du plan d'urbanisme. Ils disent

1476
00:51:44,060 --> 00:51:45,060
que c'était le cas, mais c'était

1477
00:51:45,060 --> 00:51:48,060
pas le cas. On a eu plusieurs

1478
00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:49,060
réunions. On a décidé de cette

1479
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:54,060
formule. Depuis 1 an. J'ai une

1480
00:51:54,060 --> 00:51:55,060
copie pour vous, Monsieur

1481
00:51:55,060 --> 00:51:56,060
Cousineau. Nous avons une copie

1482
00:51:56,060 --> 00:51:59,060
en main.

1483
00:51:59,060 --> 00:52:01,020
>> We are up to date. We're

1484
00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:03,020
following the program that we

1485
00:52:03,020 --> 00:52:05,020
all decided on. We all decided

1486
00:52:05,020 --> 00:52:07,020
cumulatively on this process.

1487
00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:10,020
And we've all been following it

1488
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:13,020
and our -- On a créé des

1489
00:52:13,020 --> 00:52:16,020
réunions, on a présenté

1490
00:52:16,020 --> 00:52:17,020
d'information pour créer notre

1491
00:52:17,020 --> 00:52:18,020
plan d'urbanisme. Des plantes

1492
00:52:18,020 --> 00:52:19,020
est.

1493
00:52:19,020 --> 00:52:20,020
>> They've helped us, the urban

1494
00:52:20,020 --> 00:52:21,020
-- their Planning Department has

1495
00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:24,020
worked with, us they've given us

1496
00:52:24,020 --> 00:52:25,020
educational systems, we've

1497
00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:27,020
talked about all the districts.

1498
00:52:27,020 --> 00:52:28,020
As was all agreed upon. But I

1499
00:52:28,020 --> 00:52:33,020
Council. So there, here

1500
00:52:33,020 --> 00:52:35,020
apparently, because of that. And

1501
00:52:35,020 --> 00:52:37,020
also because I misused a veto

1502
00:52:37,020 --> 00:52:39,020
which I didn't. That's another

1503
00:52:39,020 --> 00:52:40,020
reason why we are here tonight.

1504
00:52:40,020 --> 00:52:43,020
I find the reason for being here

1505
00:52:43,020 --> 00:52:44,020
completely false. I don't think

1506
00:52:44,020 --> 00:52:45,020
we need to be here, I would

1507
00:52:45,020 --> 00:52:49,020
think we could be at our age

1508
00:52:49,020 --> 00:52:52,020
medium -- public meeting next

1509
00:52:52,020 --> 00:52:53,020
February. There was no need for

1510
00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:55,020
this. I think it's artificial.

1511
00:52:55,020 --> 00:52:58,020
I'm sad that it's happened. Just

1512
00:52:58,020 --> 00:53:01,080
getting back to the slowness of

1513
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,080
the perceived delay, we're at

1514
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,080
this meeting tonight against my

1515
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,080
wishes. This meeting I did not

1516
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,080
want to have this meeting.

1517
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,080
Could've had the regular

1518
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,080
meeting. It's been called

1519
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,080
against my wishes which goes to

1520
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,080
show that I absolutely don't

1521
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,080
control the agenda. We're here

1522
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,080
tonight as evidence that I don't

1523
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,080
control the agenda. So if

1524
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,080
anybody wants to expedite or

1525
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,080
speed the agenda, we are seeing

1526
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,080
it happen right now against my

1527
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,080
wishes. So the blame for

1528
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,080
stalling is not mine. It's

1529
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,080
shared collectively. Everybody,

1530
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,080
especially the councillors, have

1531
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,080
complete control over the speed

1532
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,080
of the process. Thank you.

1533
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:44,080
- Merci, Monsieur.

1534
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,080
- Oui, Madame. May I speak,

1535
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,080
Councillor? Does the -- do we

1536
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,080
need to remove them from the RCI

1537
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,080
in order to do the process of

1538
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,040
the City p? I'm asking you,

1539
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,040
carrying.

1540
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,040
- Désolé, Madame. Sorry. Do you

1541
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,040
need -- pour faire le processus

1542
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,040
décisionnel...

1543
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,040
>> This is kind of unfair,

1544
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,040
Councillor state fourth. I

1545
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,040
thought you wanted to speak --

1546
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,040
to

1547
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,040
>> I do.

1548
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,040
>> But I would like legal

1549
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,040
collaboration.

1550
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,040
>> Councillor state, for

1551
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,040
Councillor state for, would you

1552
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:23,040
allow me to speak.

1553
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,040
>> Which is untrue.

1554
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,040
>> Councillor state for, that's

1555
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,040
not what I said. Councillor,

1556
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,040
what we are here to do tonight

1557
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,040
is to answer questions from the

1558
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,040
citizens and I see no need for

1559
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,040
councillors to ask our staff in

1560
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,040
front of the citizens when it's

1561
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,040
our question period. I don't

1562
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,040
think that that's your right and

1563
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,040
I don't think that should

1564
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,040
happen. We are going to -- we

1565
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:48,040
are going to proceed with

1566
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,040
question period.

1567
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,040
>> Since your intro --

1568
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,000
- Ça, c'est votre troisième,

1569
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,000
hein. O.K., c'est votre

1570
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,000
troisième. I owe you one for

1571
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,000
next meeting. Your introduction

1572
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,000
that you read at the beginning

1573
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,000
of the meeting, the ordinary

1574
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,000
meeting, it is now part of the

1575
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:23,000
record. And I have a copy?

1576
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,000
>> Yes. I will give you a copy.

1577
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,000
>> What Councillor Tremblay red

1578
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,000
is also part of the --

1579
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,000
>> Councillor Tremblay, could he

1580
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,000
have a copy?

1581
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,000
>> You decide. There is nothing

1582
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,000
to force you.

1583
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:45,000
>> Sorry. Sorry.

1584
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,000
- Vous avez la chance, Monsieur

1585
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,000
Cousineau, de visionner le...

1586
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,000
enregistrement.

1587
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,000
- C'est bon, merci.

1588
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,000
- Monsieur Cousineau, c'est sur

1589
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,000
mon Facebook. C'est

1590
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,000
>> Là. C'était là.

1591
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,000
- I don't go there je ne vais

1592
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,060
pas là..

1593
00:56:02,060 --> 00:56:03,060
>> Come on! Okay, leave him

1594
00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:07,060
alone.

1595
00:56:07,060 --> 00:56:10,060
- Monsieur Cousineau.

1596
00:56:19,060 --> 00:56:22,060
>> I believe it. My name is

1597
00:56:22,060 --> 00:56:27,060
Ralph. I live in district too. I

1598
00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:32,060
live in district too. Early on

1599
00:56:34,060 --> 00:56:36,060
in the council's mandate, I was

1600
00:56:36,060 --> 00:56:39,060
so pleasantly surprised to see

1601
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:41,060
how the politicians overcame the

1602
00:56:41,060 --> 00:56:43,060
visions and worked together to

1603
00:56:43,060 --> 00:56:44,060
create the interim control

1604
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:48,060
bylaw. I generally thought it

1605
00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:50,060
was quite impressive how people

1606
00:56:50,060 --> 00:56:52,060
of diverse opinions and after a

1607
00:56:52,060 --> 00:56:53,060
pretty raucous, rough-and-tumble

1608
00:56:53,060 --> 00:56:55,060
election came together an

1609
00:56:55,060 --> 00:57:00,020
accomplished that. When the

1610
00:57:01,020 --> 00:57:02,020
councillors attempted to change

1611
00:57:02,020 --> 00:57:05,020
that process for Cadillac

1612
00:57:05,020 --> 00:57:07,020
Fairview's property only, and I

1613
00:57:07,020 --> 00:57:10,020
would argue Cadillac Fairview's

1614
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:11,020
benefit, and instead have a

1615
00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:14,020
comprehensive development plan

1616
00:57:14,020 --> 00:57:15,020
like a lot of other PC

1617
00:57:15,020 --> 00:57:17,020
residents, I was pretty

1618
00:57:17,020 --> 00:57:19,020
outraged. I did not know what AC

1619
00:57:19,020 --> 00:57:23,020
BP was. I did some homework. I

1620
00:57:23,020 --> 00:57:26,020
went to the municipalities, read

1621
00:57:26,020 --> 00:57:29,020
it up, read a number of

1622
00:57:29,020 --> 00:57:31,020
different analyses and reports

1623
00:57:31,020 --> 00:57:33,020
on CB peas. It became quite

1624
00:57:33,020 --> 00:57:36,020
clear and obvious that they are

1625
00:57:36,020 --> 00:57:40,020
designed to allow a developer to

1626
00:57:40,020 --> 00:57:41,020
rewrite bylaws in order to

1627
00:57:41,020 --> 00:57:43,020
favour their project and submit

1628
00:57:43,020 --> 00:57:45,020
to the City for approval. The

1629
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:46,020
bias in favour of Cadillac

1630
00:57:46,020 --> 00:57:51,020
Fairview was obvious. Pretty

1631
00:57:52,020 --> 00:57:55,020
upset. I then saw the town halls

1632
00:57:55,020 --> 00:57:56,020
that were being -- my different

1633
00:57:56,020 --> 00:57:57,020
councillors. I went to the one

1634
00:57:57,020 --> 00:58:00,080
for my district. It was a town

1635
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,080
hall for three districts. I was

1636
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,080
stunned to realize that none of

1637
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:07,080
the three councillors really had

1638
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,080
read the law or understood what

1639
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:13,080
it was. Gloriously promoted it

1640
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,080
as some way, a new fantastic way

1641
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,080
of democracy and bringing it --

1642
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,080
that clearly was not what it

1643
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:27,080
was, according to what I read.

1644
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:28,080
Then things were topsy-turvy. I

1645
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,080
was stunned yet again when the

1646
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,080
City Councillors retracted the

1647
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:33,080
resolution for a Cadillac

1648
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,080
Fairview comprehensive

1649
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,080
development plan. I was all over

1650
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,080
again really impressed. I

1651
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:43,080
thought, wow. To be honest, I

1652
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,080
didn't expect the councillors to

1653
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:47,080
realize that the original course

1654
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,080
was best. Much more importantly,

1655
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:55,080
to have the courage. I will say

1656
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,080
this specifically to Eric,

1657
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,080
because, Eric, I heard speak

1658
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,040
about and read his thoughts. I

1659
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,040
was really impressed that they

1660
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,040
had the courage to in fact

1661
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,040
change course again and do what

1662
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:14,040
was best for the city. To me, I

1663
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,040
applauded that and thought that

1664
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,040
was the way for councillors to

1665
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,040
responsibly protect the whole

1666
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,040
idea of -- forced participatory

1667
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:25,040
democracy that was being

1668
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:29,040
created. And then, bang! Stunned

1669
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,040
again to see that here we are

1670
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,040
once again, the City wants to

1671
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:35,040
give Cadillac Fairview yet

1672
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,040
another way of influencing or

1673
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,040
dramatically altering the role

1674
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,040
of this isn't in our democracy

1675
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,040
of Pointe-Claire. It is up and

1676
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:49,040
down and back and forth. Wow.

1677
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,040
Come on, folks. It reflects the

1678
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,040
big struggle that goes on in

1679
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,040
your caucus meetings. I know

1680
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,040
it's rough but the path should

1681
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:03,000
have been clear. With the CD

1682
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,000
Pete debate, this afternoon I

1683
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,000
saw by accident this name which

1684
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,000
I think reflected my feelings on

1685
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,000
it. With the CDP, I would have

1686
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,000
to say the old quote, only once,

1687
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,000
shame on you. And then with the

1688
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:23,000
current resolution I would have

1689
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,000
to say, fool me twice, shame on

1690
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:29,000
me. Since I believe, Eric, you

1691
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,000
are quite important in

1692
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,000
processing that whole debate and

1693
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,000
courageously seeing the

1694
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,000
inappropriate nature of the CDP,

1695
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,000
doing what was best for the city

1696
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,000
and altering course and putting

1697
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,000
us back on the path of an

1698
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,000
unaltered ICB, I want to direct

1699
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,000
the question to. Anyone else who

1700
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:53,000
wants to answer can. The

1701
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,000
resolution calls for the, quote

1702
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,000
unquote, creation of a

1703
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,060
comprehensive plan for zones A

1704
01:01:00,060 --> 01:01:01,060
Mu1 and Mu2, Cadillac Fairview

1705
01:01:01,060 --> 01:01:04,060
properties. And, so two

1706
01:01:04,060 --> 01:01:09,060
questions. One, do you believe

1707
01:01:09,060 --> 01:01:12,060
it's possible for a mere

1708
01:01:12,060 --> 01:01:14,060
sampling of residents, of

1709
01:01:14,060 --> 01:01:17,060
citizens, to match the power,

1710
01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:20,060
the wealth, the dominating

1711
01:01:20,060 --> 01:01:21,060
nature of Cadillac Fairview and

1712
01:01:21,060 --> 01:01:23,060
come up with a truly

1713
01:01:23,060 --> 01:01:24,060
independent, quote unquote,

1714
01:01:24,060 --> 01:01:28,060
comprehensive plan? It sounds

1715
01:01:28,060 --> 01:01:29,060
mysteriously like a sea DP with

1716
01:01:29,060 --> 01:01:32,060
a little consultation. As an

1717
01:01:32,060 --> 01:01:35,060
example, do you believe that

1718
01:01:35,060 --> 01:01:36,060
citizens should point out to

1719
01:01:36,060 --> 01:01:40,060
Cadillac Fairview that any

1720
01:01:40,060 --> 01:01:43,060
bulldozing of any park of the

1721
01:01:43,060 --> 01:01:45,060
tiny, vulnerable micro forests,

1722
01:01:45,060 --> 01:01:49,060
the Fairview forest, which would

1723
01:01:49,060 --> 01:01:53,060
destroy wetlands and or the

1724
01:01:54,060 --> 01:01:55,060
separatist distinct area

1725
01:01:55,060 --> 01:01:56,060
inhabited by the brown snake,

1726
01:01:56,060 --> 01:02:00,020
because they are different?

1727
01:02:00,020 --> 01:02:03,020
Where the wetlands are not

1728
01:02:03,020 --> 01:02:04,020
present, it's a habitat of the

1729
01:02:04,020 --> 01:02:08,020
brown snake. You can't have a

1730
01:02:08,020 --> 01:02:10,020
compromise and destroy, raise

1731
01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:13,020
part of the forest and have it

1732
01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:17,020
as an intact viable, little tiny

1733
01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:19,020
micro forest. Right now, it's

1734
01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:22,020
remarkable in that it sustains

1735
01:02:22,020 --> 01:02:24,020
itself independently as a whole

1736
01:02:24,020 --> 01:02:28,020
little ecosystem. You destroy

1737
01:02:28,020 --> 01:02:31,020
any part of it, you ruin it. You

1738
01:02:31,020 --> 01:02:36,020
can't say, we will do 60 to 70,

1739
01:02:36,020 --> 01:02:38,020
40 to 60, some percentage. It's

1740
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:40,020
a tiny delirium. You screw it

1741
01:02:40,020 --> 01:02:42,020
up, it will never be the same.

1742
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:43,020
It will be a tiny clump of

1743
01:02:43,020 --> 01:02:47,020
trees. The question is, in what

1744
01:02:47,020 --> 01:02:49,020
you are proposing, do you really

1745
01:02:49,020 --> 01:02:51,020
expect there to be citizens

1746
01:02:51,020 --> 01:02:54,020
representative of that concern,

1747
01:02:54,020 --> 01:02:55,020
and that they are going to come

1748
01:02:55,020 --> 01:02:58,020
to an opinion with Cadillac

1749
01:02:58,020 --> 01:02:59,020
Fairview that everything is

1750
01:02:59,020 --> 01:03:03,080
hunky dory? We will all agree

1751
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,080
that the forest should be

1752
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:06,080
preserved and intact for future

1753
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,080
generations of Pointe-Claire. I

1754
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:11,080
don't buy that. I don't think

1755
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,080
that's possible. I think the

1756
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:17,080
citizens need to be given the

1757
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,080
priority here to do what is not

1758
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,080
appropriate, just purely for

1759
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,080
profit, do what's appropriate

1760
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,080
for what we all know is the

1761
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,080
right thing to do. So that's the

1762
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,080
first question. And you believe

1763
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,080
it's a fair process where people

1764
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:41,080
can come to the right solution

1765
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:42,080
like that, considering the

1766
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,080
wealth and power of Cadillac

1767
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,080
Fairview with ordinary citizens.

1768
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:51,080
Eric or anyone else?

1769
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:52,080
>> Weigh in, yes. The ordinary

1770
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:57,080
citizens --

1771
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,040
>> Excuse me, Councillor Cowan.

1772
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,040
Councillor Stork was addressed

1773
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:02,040
the question. I will give him

1774
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,040
first right of refusal on the

1775
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,040
question.

1776
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,040
>> I -- I will answer after.

1777
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:13,040
>> Oh, Eric.

1778
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,040
>> The answer is absolutely yes.

1779
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,040
I don't know why you are afraid

1780
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,040
citizens are weak, look at you,

1781
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:21,040
citizens are -- citizens will

1782
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:25,040
voice their views. The future of

1783
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,040
the Fairview forest, it could

1784
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,040
very well be, according to the

1785
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,040
outcome, could very well be

1786
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:34,040
preserved forever. That's one of

1787
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:35,040
the -- that's on the table.

1788
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:36,040
That's definitely on the table.

1789
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:37,040
Whoever said it was not? And no

1790
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,040
one ever said it was not accept

1791
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,040
some forces of dissembling

1792
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,040
information. It's not off the

1793
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:48,040
table. -- once said in this

1794
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:51,040
council of Chamber that

1795
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:52,040
recognizing that if you are

1796
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,040
going to get concessions from

1797
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,040
the owner of the property maybe

1798
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:57,040
should be talking about the two

1799
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,040
zone so if you want to get

1800
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,000
concessions on Mu2, maybe you

1801
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,000
have it through a negotiation,

1802
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,000
you have concessions on Mu1.

1803
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:06,000
That is the other thing that's

1804
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,000
getting all dissembled. This

1805
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,000
whole process we are talking

1806
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,000
about to empower the resolution

1807
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,000
is not to have that negotiation

1808
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,000
at all. It's only to get to that

1809
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,000
negotiation! That's the only

1810
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,000
thing. We are trying to get the

1811
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,000
director general not to talk

1812
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,000
about comprehensive development

1813
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,000
plans, not to talk about

1814
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:31,000
anything 27 storey buildings or

1815
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,000
anything else! It's only to get

1816
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,000
Cadillac Fairview to agree to

1817
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,000
get to the table with citizens.

1818
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,000
If that mutually agreeable

1819
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,000
accord can't have, an Cadillac

1820
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,000
Fairview have to sit and watch

1821
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,000
on the sidelines. And that's

1822
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,000
what it's all about.

1823
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,000
>> Pretty much what Councillor

1824
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,000
Cowan said. I just want to go to

1825
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,000
the flip-flop that's always

1826
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,000
referred to and reference to the

1827
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,060
-- with Cadillac. There the

1828
01:06:00,060 --> 01:06:02,060
primary reason for my change, I

1829
01:06:02,060 --> 01:06:04,060
was given certain information

1830
01:06:04,060 --> 01:06:05,060
saying that we had legal

1831
01:06:05,060 --> 01:06:06,060
protection against Cadillac

1832
01:06:06,060 --> 01:06:08,060
Fairview if we could keep amount

1833
01:06:08,060 --> 01:06:09,060
of the espy. Premised midnight,

1834
01:06:09,060 --> 01:06:12,060
I was informed that legal

1835
01:06:12,060 --> 01:06:13,060
protection no longer existed.

1836
01:06:13,060 --> 01:06:14,060
There was a change of

1837
01:06:14,060 --> 01:06:15,060
information, change of I don't

1838
01:06:15,060 --> 01:06:16,060
know. I wasn't very happy with

1839
01:06:16,060 --> 01:06:19,060
it. So compelled to protect the

1840
01:06:19,060 --> 01:06:20,060
citizens rights, I reversed my

1841
01:06:20,060 --> 01:06:22,060
decision to put them back in the

1842
01:06:22,060 --> 01:06:25,060
ICB. So I am not going to expose

1843
01:06:25,060 --> 01:06:26,060
our citizens or city with any

1844
01:06:26,060 --> 01:06:28,060
harm. And despite doing that in

1845
01:06:28,060 --> 01:06:30,060
itself, yes, of course the

1846
01:06:30,060 --> 01:06:31,060
powerful, they have money, but

1847
01:06:31,060 --> 01:06:33,060
we're gonna fight for what we

1848
01:06:33,060 --> 01:06:35,060
have -- for what's best for.

1849
01:06:35,060 --> 01:06:37,060
Citizens but as Councillor Cowan

1850
01:06:37,060 --> 01:06:38,060
said, we have to get to that

1851
01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:39,060
stage. We have to listen to our

1852
01:06:39,060 --> 01:06:40,060
citizens, we have to go through

1853
01:06:40,060 --> 01:06:41,060
all the trade-offs, we have to

1854
01:06:41,060 --> 01:06:42,060
understand the social impact,

1855
01:06:42,060 --> 01:06:43,060
the environmental impacts. And

1856
01:06:43,060 --> 01:06:46,060
even the financial impacts of

1857
01:06:46,060 --> 01:06:47,060
what we do. But if we come to a

1858
01:06:47,060 --> 01:06:48,060
consensus together, we will do

1859
01:06:48,060 --> 01:06:49,060
what the citizens want. There is

1860
01:06:49,060 --> 01:06:51,060
no question about it but we have

1861
01:06:51,060 --> 01:06:53,060
to understand, you have to get

1862
01:06:53,060 --> 01:06:54,060
to that point and that's what

1863
01:06:54,060 --> 01:06:56,060
we're trying to get out and this

1864
01:06:56,060 --> 01:06:58,060
is a non binding resolution. We

1865
01:06:58,060 --> 01:07:00,020
disagree with it, they'll come

1866
01:07:00,020 --> 01:07:02,020
back and say -- we don't agree

1867
01:07:02,020 --> 01:07:04,020
with that, we just tell them to

1868
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:06,020
go home. So there's no, it's

1869
01:07:06,020 --> 01:07:08,020
just a start to discussion,

1870
01:07:08,020 --> 01:07:09,020
plain and simple.

1871
01:07:09,020 --> 01:07:11,020
>> Dying to debate that I know

1872
01:07:11,020 --> 01:07:12,020
that's not appropriate here.

1873
01:07:12,020 --> 01:07:16,020
>> Let's get it over coffee.

1874
01:07:16,020 --> 01:07:21,020
>> May I answer your answer?

1875
01:07:21,020 --> 01:07:22,020
>> Yes you may, Councillor

1876
01:07:22,020 --> 01:07:23,020
Stainforth.

1877
01:07:23,020 --> 01:07:25,020
>> The reason I would favour

1878
01:07:25,020 --> 01:07:28,020
this E DP over simply having the

1879
01:07:28,020 --> 01:07:31,020
RCI with the rezoning and urban

1880
01:07:31,020 --> 01:07:33,020
plan is that when we look at

1881
01:07:33,020 --> 01:07:37,020
just a public consultation as

1882
01:07:38,020 --> 01:07:39,020
Councillor Tremblay pointed out,

1883
01:07:39,020 --> 01:07:41,020
it's very lacking, I would say.

1884
01:07:41,020 --> 01:07:42,020
We're talking behind limits,

1885
01:07:42,020 --> 01:07:44,020
we're talking about setbacks, et

1886
01:07:44,020 --> 01:07:46,020
cetera. It doesn't get very much

1887
01:07:46,020 --> 01:07:49,020
control to the citizen. With the

1888
01:07:49,020 --> 01:07:51,020
CDP, yes, bylaw, we are mandate

1889
01:07:51,020 --> 01:07:53,020
to have two public

1890
01:07:53,020 --> 01:07:55,020
consultations. But as a Council,

1891
01:07:55,020 --> 01:07:58,020
we have hired a firm for the

1892
01:07:58,020 --> 01:08:01,080
participatory activities. We

1893
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,080
have supported the Mayor's

1894
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:06,080
proposal of following suit with

1895
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,080
the Kirkland -- the way they

1896
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:10,080
conducted theirs with citizens

1897
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,080
from all around the city as well

1898
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:14,080
as -- I had suggested that we

1899
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,080
waited more heavily for district

1900
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:17,080
six because that's where they

1901
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:18,080
live as well, so everyone can

1902
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:23,080
weigh in. What it does is, it

1903
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,080
allows us to have more detail in

1904
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:27,080
more complete plan. Why do we

1905
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,080
need the collaboration of

1906
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,080
Cadillac Fairview? Because they

1907
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,080
need to -- they need to agree to

1908
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:36,080
that plan. And if there agreed

1909
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,080
to that plan, then we write it

1910
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,080
into law. Once it's written,

1911
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:41,080
it's called chapter, once that

1912
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,080
chapter is written, then we can

1913
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,080
remove them from the RCI. But in

1914
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,080
the RCI, they're there in the

1915
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,080
entire process. At any point in

1916
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,080
time, we are free to walk away

1917
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,080
and just say, too bad, we will

1918
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,080
just proceed the way we are with

1919
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:58,080
all the other properties. But I

1920
01:08:58,080 --> 01:08:59,080
don't think that's what anybody

1921
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,040
here wants because all you're

1922
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,040
gonna get to vote on is setbacks

1923
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,040
in heights and percentage of

1924
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,040
green space. I would like to

1925
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,040
know the types of promises that

1926
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,040
are gonna go, when the different

1927
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:19,040
types of housing, that's my

1928
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:20,040
personal opinion and that's that

1929
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,040
of my citizens. All my citizens

1930
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,040
that have reached out to me have

1931
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:27,040
supported this resolution in

1932
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,040
having Ms. ridden simply go and

1933
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,040
speak to them and see if they

1934
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,040
will at least done at the table

1935
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,040
and speak to us and potentially

1936
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:36,040
informing this committee or

1937
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:37,040
moving Ford in that sense. It's

1938
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:42,040
nothing more than that. And --

1939
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,040
>> Councillor Stainforth --

1940
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,040
>> We just put it back to the

1941
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:47,040
same plan as every other

1942
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,040
property and we will get to take

1943
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,040
your vote on your high

1944
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,040
preference and your setback

1945
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:57,040
preference, et cetera.

1946
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:01,000
>> Councillor, and Mr. -- the

1947
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,000
question here is what the

1948
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,000
citizens want and my question

1949
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,000
is, which citizens? The centre

1950
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,000
delusional but the Kirkland

1951
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,000
process which I met with the D G

1952
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,000
and the mayor of Kirkland a few

1953
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,000
days back is that, in their

1954
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,000
process, the citizens chose the

1955
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,000
representation. They entirely

1956
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,000
chose the representation.

1957
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,000
Whereas in the process and these

1958
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:28,000
resolution, there's going to be

1959
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,000
joint decision-making over the

1960
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,000
decision making -- the

1961
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,000
participation process. Yes, it

1962
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,000
does so and in that process

1963
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,000
they're giving a 50/50

1964
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,000
relationship between the city

1965
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,000
and Cadillac developer to

1966
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,000
influence the citizen

1967
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,000
participation process. That's

1968
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,000
where we -- that's where it

1969
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,000
deviates from the Kirkland

1970
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,000
process.

1971
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,000
>> Even on the last five months.

1972
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:54,000
>> Mr. Mayer, if I may. I think

1973
01:10:55,000 --> 01:11:00,060
therein lies Mr. still second

1974
01:11:00,060 --> 01:11:01,060
rift with what the previous

1975
01:11:01,060 --> 01:11:03,060
three councillors expressed. The

1976
01:11:03,060 --> 01:11:05,060
resolution which I worry about

1977
01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:06,060
what this resolution might lead

1978
01:11:06,060 --> 01:11:11,060
to. In my opinion, if you are

1979
01:11:13,060 --> 01:11:16,060
going to approach, as your first

1980
01:11:16,060 --> 01:11:18,060
step, one particular player in

1981
01:11:18,060 --> 01:11:22,060
the process, you constantly told

1982
01:11:23,060 --> 01:11:25,060
everybody that this is a

1983
01:11:25,060 --> 01:11:26,060
development, developer-centric

1984
01:11:26,060 --> 01:11:28,060
model. We are heading in that

1985
01:11:28,060 --> 01:11:30,060
decision the direction first. We

1986
01:11:30,060 --> 01:11:33,060
are certainly not heading in a

1987
01:11:33,060 --> 01:11:34,060
community driven process,

1988
01:11:34,060 --> 01:11:35,060
community driven meaning all

1989
01:11:35,060 --> 01:11:37,060
members of community. Which is

1990
01:11:37,060 --> 01:11:38,060
the residents that live in the

1991
01:11:38,060 --> 01:11:40,060
area, the developers, the

1992
01:11:40,060 --> 01:11:42,060
administration, experts, people

1993
01:11:42,060 --> 01:11:43,060
who may have an opinion in terms

1994
01:11:43,060 --> 01:11:44,060
of the process that we move in

1995
01:11:44,060 --> 01:11:49,060
on. These discussions, I worry,

1996
01:11:49,060 --> 01:11:51,060
may lead to another step that

1997
01:11:51,060 --> 01:11:54,060
will just bring us to a level

1998
01:11:54,060 --> 01:11:56,060
where we are increasingly

1999
01:11:56,060 --> 01:11:57,060
becoming distant from actually

2000
01:11:57,060 --> 01:11:58,060
speaking to the citizens

2001
01:11:58,060 --> 01:12:00,020
directly. As I mentioned in a

2002
01:12:00,020 --> 01:12:02,020
statement that I read, we are in

2003
01:12:02,020 --> 01:12:04,020
an embryonic stage in terms of

2004
01:12:04,020 --> 01:12:06,020
setting up our public

2005
01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:07,020
participation committee. There's

2006
01:12:07,020 --> 01:12:08,020
a lot of work still to be done

2007
01:12:08,020 --> 01:12:09,020
on that level and I would have

2008
01:12:09,020 --> 01:12:11,020
preferred to wait. I would

2009
01:12:11,020 --> 01:12:14,020
prefer to wait before I

2010
01:12:14,020 --> 01:12:15,020
approached citizens or a

2011
01:12:15,020 --> 01:12:16,020
developer on this sort of thing

2012
01:12:16,020 --> 01:12:17,020
to actually have something to

2013
01:12:17,020 --> 01:12:19,020
sell to them. Right now, I'm

2014
01:12:19,020 --> 01:12:22,020
worried that we're at a stage of

2015
01:12:22,020 --> 01:12:25,020
pure with -- improvisation. That

2016
01:12:25,020 --> 01:12:26,020
improvisation may not be

2017
01:12:26,020 --> 01:12:27,020
favourable to the developer, it

2018
01:12:27,020 --> 01:12:29,020
may or may not be in favour of

2019
01:12:29,020 --> 01:12:30,020
what the councillors want to

2020
01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:33,020
see. But what I stated earlier,

2021
01:12:33,020 --> 01:12:34,020
I think this is a premature

2022
01:12:34,020 --> 01:12:37,020
move. And but will come of it I

2023
01:12:37,020 --> 01:12:41,020
don't know. I don't like to

2024
01:12:41,020 --> 01:12:43,020
negotiate, do business, to

2025
01:12:43,020 --> 01:12:45,020
prepare whatever entity I work

2026
01:12:45,020 --> 01:12:47,020
for sort of thinking, let's go

2027
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:48,020
cc and talk and see what they

2028
01:12:48,020 --> 01:12:50,020
think and if it works it will

2029
01:12:50,020 --> 01:12:51,020
work. We need to be completely

2030
01:12:51,020 --> 01:12:53,020
ready on our and to be able to

2031
01:12:53,020 --> 01:12:54,020
engage in something like that in

2032
01:12:54,020 --> 01:12:55,020
order to get to where we need to

2033
01:12:55,020 --> 01:12:58,020
be. That, whether you agree with

2034
01:12:58,020 --> 01:13:00,080
me or not, is a clear

2035
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,080
philosophical difference in

2036
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,080
terms of where we're going.

2037
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,080
>> Councillor still sick, I

2038
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:07,080
think you are up. You're done.

2039
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,080
You have one more?

2040
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,080
>> Second question. If the city,

2041
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,080
and Cadillac Fairview, hold a

2042
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:15,080
separate process inter along

2043
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,080
with some citizens participating

2044
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,080
and a, quote, unquote,

2045
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:22,080
comprehensive plan is produced.

2046
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,080
Well this plan, will in any way

2047
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:29,080
at all restrict, modify, alter

2048
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,080
the ability of citizens to

2049
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,080
decide in favour of something

2050
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,080
completely different option in

2051
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:41,080
the ICB public consultation?

2052
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,080
>> It's the same.

2053
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:45,080
>> Pardon me?

2054
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:46,080
>> It's the same.

2055
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:47,080
>> Yes, it's not a separate

2056
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:51,080
thing. Everything in the icy be

2057
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:54,080
-- the ICB is a --

2058
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,080
overdevelopment over parts of

2059
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:56,080
the city. Many different areas.

2060
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:00,040
The whole thing has to be dealt

2061
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,040
with. You can't deal with -- you

2062
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:05,040
know, it's just a question of

2063
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:06,040
procedural is aware -- how do

2064
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:08,040
you deal with the whole city,

2065
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:09,040
every territory, every square

2066
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,040
inch of it with one treatment?

2067
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:15,040
>> It's not just a consultation

2068
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,040
process first and the icy be

2069
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:20,040
after. The ICB then will no

2070
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,040
longer apply in the same way to

2071
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,040
Cadillac Fairview properties?

2072
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:28,040
>> Wendy -- Cadillac Fairview

2073
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,040
simply -- one of the areas, one

2074
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,040
of the areas has been treated

2075
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,040
with, several areas in the city

2076
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:37,040
have to be dealt with. It will

2077
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:40,040
be dealt with in the -- to use

2078
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,040
the expression goose egg, you

2079
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,040
have a problem on the map, you

2080
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:47,040
goose egg your objectives. The

2081
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,040
goose egg is one digestible

2082
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,040
piece you can actually get your

2083
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,040
hands around and plan and start.

2084
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,040
My concern about Councillor

2085
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:56,040
Tremblay's approach is we will

2086
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:59,040
never get started. He will never

2087
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,000
be -- there will never be enough

2088
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,000
information. We've been doing

2089
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:04,000
this for five months now, the

2090
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:05,000
planning department has been

2091
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:06,000
preparing this way forward for

2092
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,000
us for five months.

2093
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:13,000
>> I'm not certain I understand

2094
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,000
the answer specifically to the

2095
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:18,000
question. If they come to -- in

2096
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,000
the first process that you are

2097
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,000
building tonight -- a

2098
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,000
comprehensive plan, what then

2099
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:27,000
happens to Mu1 and Mu2 within

2100
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:32,000
the ICB? Is it no longer discuss

2101
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,000
in the same way the -- what it

2102
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:37,000
would have normally? Is it then

2103
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,000
cut out? Modified in some way?

2104
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:44,000
>> Let me try to say it again.

2105
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,000
It's one proposal, it's one

2106
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,000
process to deal with the whole

2107
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,000
city. We have one area up there

2108
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,000
that we will deal with. When the

2109
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,000
comprehensive development -- if

2110
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,000
a comprehensive development plan

2111
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:55,000
is arrived, it would only be

2112
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,000
arrived at with a high degree of

2113
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,000
consensus. That's the whole

2114
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,060
objective here. You were talking

2115
01:16:01,060 --> 01:16:03,060
about the comprehensive

2116
01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:04,060
development plan favouring a

2117
01:16:04,060 --> 01:16:06,060
developer. Not necessarily and

2118
01:16:06,060 --> 01:16:07,060
not in this case. A

2119
01:16:07,060 --> 01:16:10,060
comprehensive development plan

2120
01:16:10,060 --> 01:16:11,060
specifies what the City will

2121
01:16:11,060 --> 01:16:14,060
permit to go up there in much

2122
01:16:14,060 --> 01:16:16,060
more detail than zoning or any

2123
01:16:16,060 --> 01:16:17,060
state bylaw will allow as

2124
01:16:17,060 --> 01:16:18,060
Councillor Stainforth was

2125
01:16:18,060 --> 01:16:23,060
saying. The process -- I get

2126
01:16:24,060 --> 01:16:26,060
that people are suspicious about

2127
01:16:26,060 --> 01:16:29,060
the process but the objective is

2128
01:16:29,060 --> 01:16:31,060
to obtain a consensus, and if

2129
01:16:31,060 --> 01:16:35,060
you have a consensus, then that

2130
01:16:35,060 --> 01:16:38,060
problem is now solved. Now we

2131
01:16:38,060 --> 01:16:40,060
can deal with other problems.

2132
01:16:40,060 --> 01:16:43,060
>> When you have that process

2133
01:16:43,060 --> 01:16:45,060
done, then there is no more roll

2134
01:16:45,060 --> 01:16:47,060
vis-à-vis those properties in

2135
01:16:47,060 --> 01:16:50,060
the interim control bylaw?

2136
01:16:50,060 --> 01:16:52,060
>> The interim control bylaw is

2137
01:16:52,060 --> 01:16:54,060
only a temporary freeze. That's

2138
01:16:54,060 --> 01:16:57,060
it. As you deal with the areas

2139
01:16:57,060 --> 01:16:58,060
within the city, you pull them

2140
01:16:58,060 --> 01:16:59,060
out.

2141
01:16:59,060 --> 01:17:03,020
>> Okay. So it is cut out.

2142
01:17:03,020 --> 01:17:05,020
>> But if you are referring to,

2143
01:17:05,020 --> 01:17:06,020
as Councillor Stainforth was

2144
01:17:06,020 --> 01:17:08,020
mentioning, the urban plant, we

2145
01:17:08,020 --> 01:17:09,020
have not even sorted that out

2146
01:17:09,020 --> 01:17:11,020
yet. Are we going to have the

2147
01:17:11,020 --> 01:17:13,020
full Urban Plan done first? Yes,

2148
01:17:13,020 --> 01:17:17,020
quite possible. And then even if

2149
01:17:17,020 --> 01:17:18,020
the comprehensive development

2150
01:17:18,020 --> 01:17:20,020
plan is done, it sits on the

2151
01:17:20,020 --> 01:17:21,020
sideline. It is finished, it's

2152
01:17:21,020 --> 01:17:22,020
done, but we don't lift them out

2153
01:17:22,020 --> 01:17:24,020
of the, exit we wait for the

2154
01:17:24,020 --> 01:17:25,020
whole urban plan to be done and

2155
01:17:25,020 --> 01:17:26,020
we move on to the rest of the

2156
01:17:26,020 --> 01:17:28,020
city, one by one by one.

2157
01:17:28,020 --> 01:17:30,020
Otherwise, how do we get started

2158
01:17:30,020 --> 01:17:31,020
on this? It's been over a year

2159
01:17:31,020 --> 01:17:36,020
now. And this approach with

2160
01:17:36,020 --> 01:17:37,020
Cadillac Fairview, as I've been

2161
01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:38,020
saying over and over again, has

2162
01:17:38,020 --> 01:17:39,020
been worked on by the

2163
01:17:39,020 --> 01:17:41,020
administration for five months.

2164
01:17:41,020 --> 01:17:44,020
>> Originally, we had a process

2165
01:17:44,020 --> 01:17:46,020
independent of Cadillac,

2166
01:17:46,020 --> 01:17:48,020
somewhat independent of Cadillac

2167
01:17:48,020 --> 01:17:50,020
Fairview's influence, potential

2168
01:17:50,020 --> 01:17:55,020
domination. And now we don't.

2169
01:17:56,020 --> 01:17:58,020
>> Mr. Tremblay.

2170
01:17:58,020 --> 01:17:59,020
>> Go ahead.

2171
01:17:59,020 --> 01:18:00,080
>> I want to get back to the

2172
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:01,080
idea of waiting and delaying and

2173
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:02,080
talking and delaying the whole

2174
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:06,080
project. Also the fact that it's

2175
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,080
been over a year that we have

2176
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,080
been wrangling with this. You

2177
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:11,080
have to remember the project

2178
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,080
we're looking at in that

2179
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,080
particular area is a centerpiece

2180
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:17,080
of what Pointe-Claire is all

2181
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,080
about. It doesn't just -- it's

2182
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:20,080
not just an area that's relevant

2183
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,080
to the citizens of

2184
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:23,080
Pointe-Claire, there are people

2185
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,080
from all over the West Island.

2186
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:27,080
It's important that we get it

2187
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,080
right. I don't see why taking

2188
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:32,080
your time and being reflective

2189
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:33,080
and thinking about how you want

2190
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:35,080
to approach this very carefully

2191
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:37,080
-- even in a way that may

2192
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:41,080
benefit the developer. I would

2193
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,080
want nothing more than to see a

2194
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,080
project by the citizens, the

2195
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:47,080
developer, anyone in

2196
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,080
Pointe-Claire is really proud of

2197
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,080
going forward. Rather than use

2198
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,080
the word delay, I would say it's

2199
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:55,080
just we are doing our homework,

2200
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:56,080
we are doing due diligence of

2201
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:00,040
going through the process. I,

2202
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:01,040
for one, would be prepared to

2203
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,040
meet every single way -- day of

2204
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:04,040
the week to get our ducks in a

2205
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:06,040
row, our studies, our planning

2206
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:09,040
process, our public

2207
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:10,040
participation methods and

2208
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:11,040
methodology, not just a few

2209
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,040
lines in a pie paragraph, but a

2210
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:14,040
real platform. Why didn't this

2211
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,040
resolution speak directly to the

2212
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:17,040
citizens and say, hey, we are

2213
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:20,040
inviting you to come over and

2214
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:21,040
you have a public participation

2215
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:22,040
plan that we are putting

2216
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:26,040
together. It will but it is --

2217
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:28,040
we will have to see where these

2218
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:29,040
discussions take us. I, like you

2219
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:33,040
are, Councillor Thorstad-Cullen,

2220
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:35,040
saw documentation that makes me

2221
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:37,040
worry about that. Hence, my

2222
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:38,040
decision to think, well, we need

2223
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:40,040
to slow down and really think

2224
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:41,040
carefully about what we are

2225
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:42,040
doing rather than doing what we

2226
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,040
are doing now which, to me, has

2227
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:47,040
not an aura but a hint of

2228
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:48,040
improvisation as we go along. If

2229
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:49,040
they don't like, it we will see

2230
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,040
what we do. We are not done yet.

2231
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:52,040
There is much work to be done

2232
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:53,040
that will benefit the developer,

2233
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:56,040
that will benefit the citizens.

2234
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:57,040
Hence my argument that we are

2235
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,000
rushing through this

2236
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:01,000
unnecessarily. It has created a

2237
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,000
lot of animosity and destruction

2238
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,000
within the town when there are

2239
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:07,000
issues such as taxation we could

2240
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:12,000
be assessing. And that's where I

2241
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:13,000
stand on it. I appreciate the

2242
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,000
points of view of my colleagues

2243
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,000
on Council. I would have

2244
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:18,000
preferred much more time to go

2245
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,000
over this. Unfortunately, we are

2246
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:21,000
where we are. We will see what

2247
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,000
comes out of this.

2248
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,000
>> Mr. -- if I could.

2249
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:28,000
[Applause]

2250
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:29,000
Apparently we are not allowed to

2251
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:34,000
clap. Councillor Cowan, how do

2252
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:35,000
we get started, from your

2253
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:39,000
perspective? Ideally, he would

2254
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,000
speak to the all the citizens of

2255
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:43,000
Pointe-Claire in an even equal

2256
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:45,000
manner and come up with the

2257
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:46,000
framework of how we see our city

2258
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,000
going forward and then present

2259
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:52,000
that. To any potential developer

2260
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,000
down the road. That's what I

2261
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,000
envisaged when we did the

2262
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,000
measure. That's what I would

2263
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:58,000
still like to see happen, have

2264
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:02,060
to have happen. Doesn't seem

2265
01:21:02,060 --> 01:21:04,060
like it answers your question.

2266
01:21:04,060 --> 01:21:05,060
We will see, will it come, up

2267
01:21:05,060 --> 01:21:07,060
will it be fair, what will the

2268
01:21:07,060 --> 01:21:09,060
result be? And the process is

2269
01:21:09,060 --> 01:21:10,060
being driven and not by the

2270
01:21:10,060 --> 01:21:11,060
citizen but by other forces at

2271
01:21:11,060 --> 01:21:13,060
first. I'm concerned like you.

2272
01:21:13,060 --> 01:21:17,060
It is natural instinct. We are

2273
01:21:17,060 --> 01:21:18,060
way better off if we speak to

2274
01:21:18,060 --> 01:21:19,060
the public and get their

2275
01:21:19,060 --> 01:21:20,060
sentiments first before going

2276
01:21:20,060 --> 01:21:22,060
forward.

2277
01:21:24,060 --> 01:21:25,060
>> Thank you very much for

2278
01:21:25,060 --> 01:21:26,060
trying your best to give

2279
01:21:26,060 --> 01:21:29,060
comprehensive answers.

2280
01:21:29,060 --> 01:21:30,060
- Monsieur Lapointe, une

2281
01:21:30,060 --> 01:21:35,060
autre...

2282
01:21:36,060 --> 01:21:40,060
- Le CD paie, il n'y a pas de

2283
01:21:40,060 --> 01:21:45,060
référendum, dans ça? Le CBP?

2284
01:21:46,060 --> 01:21:48,060
- Pardon?

2285
01:21:48,060 --> 01:21:50,060
- Le CBP, il n'y a pas de

2286
01:21:50,060 --> 01:21:51,060
référendum? Il

2287
01:21:51,060 --> 01:21:54,060
- Peut y en avoir un, oui.

2288
01:21:54,060 --> 01:21:56,060
- Le assaillis, on a une

2289
01:21:56,060 --> 01:21:58,060
consultation publique et on peut

2290
01:21:58,060 --> 01:21:59,060
avoir un référendum?

2291
01:21:59,060 --> 01:22:01,020
- Je pense que oui. Je pense que

2292
01:22:01,020 --> 01:22:03,020
oui, mais je suis pas certain.

2293
01:22:03,020 --> 01:22:08,020
- En 2017, on a fait 27 - 75 -

2294
01:22:12,020 --> 01:22:15,020
39, c'était de deux à 15 et

2295
01:22:15,020 --> 01:22:18,020
cachent. Sur le pouvoir

2296
01:22:18,020 --> 01:22:22,020
Brunswick, dans la forêt Mu2,

2297
01:22:22,020 --> 01:22:27,020
deux étages à 15 étages. Et sur

2298
01:22:27,020 --> 01:22:30,020
le bord de la 40, deux et 40 à

2299
01:22:30,020 --> 01:22:34,020
15 étages. Cette journée-là, un

2300
01:22:34,020 --> 01:22:36,020
lobbyiste de Cadillac Fairview

2301
01:22:36,020 --> 01:22:39,020
est un membre de la direction de

2302
01:22:39,020 --> 01:22:40,020
Cadillac Fairview étaient

2303
01:22:40,020 --> 01:22:42,020
d'accord pour le changement de

2304
01:22:42,020 --> 01:22:45,020
la Ville de Pointe-Claire pour

2305
01:22:45,020 --> 01:22:48,020
Mu1 et Mu2. Et ils avaient

2306
01:22:48,020 --> 01:22:49,020
aucune restriction sur les

2307
01:22:49,020 --> 01:22:50,020
auteurs, aucune restriction sur

2308
01:22:50,020 --> 01:22:51,020
le nombre des tâches, et c'est

2309
01:22:51,020 --> 01:22:52,020
ce que l'on veut changer

2310
01:22:52,020 --> 01:22:57,020
aujourd'hui. Mu1, on n'a pas

2311
01:22:58,020 --> 01:23:02,080
besoin d'avoir 15 étages et 25

2312
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:04,080
étages. On veut retourner. Ça

2313
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:07,080
cette méthode-là, on va pouvoir

2314
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:08,080
faire un référendum sur ça, et

2315
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:12,080
remettre ça comme c'était avant.

2316
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,080
Est-ce que vous allez faire ça?

2317
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:19,080
>> Councillor Stork would like

2318
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,080
to comment.

2319
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:24,080
>> You are 100 percent correct.

2320
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:29,080
That's when they passed --

2321
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:31,080
that's part of a special

2322
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:35,080
planning program. I remember

2323
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,080
watching the videotape on July

2324
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:38,080
4th when they were asked a

2325
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:39,080
question about the height

2326
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:40,080
restrictions and such. Because

2327
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:42,080
it was a special planning

2328
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,080
program, it was subject to

2329
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:45,080
public consultation but was not

2330
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,080
subject to a public referendum.

2331
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,080
Having analyzed that file, we

2332
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:50,080
discuss it many times with a lot

2333
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:51,080
of work together to find that

2334
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:53,080
file. It's a valid point that

2335
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:54,080
needs to be looked at in

2336
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,080
reference to the CP and what's

2337
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,080
happening with the ICB. A bit

2338
01:23:58,080 --> 01:23:59,080
more research has to be done to

2339
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:00,040
that.

2340
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,040
>> Councillor Stainforth?

2341
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:04,040
- Je peux vous répondre au

2342
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:06,040
niveau du référendum. Ce que

2343
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:09,040
vous voulez que je vous explique

2344
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:11,040
le processus? Légalement? Je

2345
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:13,040
- Comprends le processus, oui.

2346
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,040
- Alors, après la première

2347
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:18,040
consultation qui est pour la

2348
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,040
ville en entier et que l'on

2349
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,040
adopte les critères, la deuxième

2350
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,040
consultation, là, ils vont

2351
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,040
soumettre leur plan et, après

2352
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:32,040
ça, une fois que c'est soumis,

2353
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:37,040
on peut avoir un référendum dans

2354
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,040
les coller autour.

2355
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:43,040
- Et les autres citoyens, eux

2356
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:47,040
autres, ils ont pas d'affaire?

2357
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:49,040
- There is citywide and then

2358
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:51,040
contiguous for the referendum.

2359
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,040
That is in the legal process. We

2360
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:57,040
hired a firm in order to do the

2361
01:24:57,040 --> 01:24:59,040
participants -- participatory

2362
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:00,000
activities that our city why.

2363
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,000
- Et ça, c'est le même qui a

2364
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:07,000
fait le code qu'il a joué.

2365
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:11,000
-

2366
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:12,000
>> Mister oui, absolument.

2367
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:13,000
Mayor, if I may?

2368
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,000
>> Yes, absolutely.

2369
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:15,000
>> If we could have that

2370
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,000
validated, whether that process

2371
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,000
-- Councillor Stainforth --

2372
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,000
could you ask if she agrees with

2373
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:29,000
the statement we just made?

2374
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,000
>> Do you want me to repeat it?

2375
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:33,000
>> Sure.

2376
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:36,000
>> Can you validate that and the

2377
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,000
process there are two mandatory

2378
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:39,000
public consultations. The first

2379
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:42,000
of which is citywide, the CCP

2380
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,000
criteria are adopted. At the

2381
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:47,000
second one, the -- only after

2382
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:49,000
the adoption of the criteria. In

2383
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:52,000
addition to public consultation,

2384
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,000
finally submitted. At the

2385
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,000
request of the citizens and

2386
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:56,000
contiguous areas to the reform

2387
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:01,060
process.

2388
01:26:01,060 --> 01:26:03,060
>> If I may, Mrs. Stainforth. In

2389
01:26:03,060 --> 01:26:06,060
order to have a precise answer,

2390
01:26:06,060 --> 01:26:08,060
I will provide you with all the

2391
01:26:08,060 --> 01:26:13,060
process and then you can publish

2392
01:26:13,060 --> 01:26:14,060
it maybe on your Facebook or at

2393
01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:19,060
the next meeting. Yeah. I want

2394
01:26:20,060 --> 01:26:23,060
to make sure I will give you it,

2395
01:26:23,060 --> 01:26:26,060
the right and precise

2396
01:26:26,060 --> 01:26:28,060
information for the specific

2397
01:26:28,060 --> 01:26:32,060
Cadillac Fairview project.

2398
01:26:32,060 --> 01:26:33,060
>>

2399
01:26:33,060 --> 01:26:34,060
- Merci, Monsieur Lapointe.

2400
01:26:34,060 --> 01:26:35,060
- On va attendre la réponse?

2401
01:26:35,060 --> 01:26:38,060
- Oui, la réponse de...

2402
01:26:38,060 --> 01:26:39,060
- Je peux vous donner la

2403
01:26:39,060 --> 01:26:40,060
réponse, si vous voulez. Venez

2404
01:26:40,060 --> 01:26:42,060
me voir à mon bureau. Vous savez

2405
01:26:42,060 --> 01:26:44,060
où il est. Sinon, à la prochaine

2406
01:26:44,060 --> 01:26:45,060
séance publique, je pourrai vous

2407
01:26:45,060 --> 01:26:46,060
en faire part.

2408
01:26:46,060 --> 01:26:49,060
- O.K., merci.

2409
01:27:02,020 --> 01:27:04,020
>> Lynn Conway. I wasn't

2410
01:27:04,020 --> 01:27:05,020
planning on coming tonight and

2411
01:27:05,020 --> 01:27:07,020
asking questions. I would much

2412
01:27:07,020 --> 01:27:08,020
prefer to stay at home in the

2413
01:27:08,020 --> 01:27:12,020
comfort of my warm house then to

2414
01:27:12,020 --> 01:27:13,020
go out on a cold evening. I was

2415
01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:15,020
a bit surprised of finding when

2416
01:27:15,020 --> 01:27:17,020
I came home and I saw

2417
01:27:17,020 --> 01:27:20,020
information about the protest

2418
01:27:20,020 --> 01:27:23,020
about this meeting for the

2419
01:27:23,020 --> 01:27:24,020
resolution and the meeting

2420
01:27:24,020 --> 01:27:25,020
tonight. I don't think it was

2421
01:27:25,020 --> 01:27:26,020
proper to have this meeting

2422
01:27:26,020 --> 01:27:31,020
tonight. I found the article 53.

2423
01:27:35,020 --> 01:27:37,020
Article 53 said, if such a time,

2424
01:27:37,020 --> 01:27:39,020
the mayor advises the clerk that

2425
01:27:39,020 --> 01:27:43,020
he does not approve, the latter

2426
01:27:44,020 --> 01:27:45,020
shed submit it again to the

2427
01:27:45,020 --> 01:27:48,020
Council of the next meeting.

2428
01:27:48,020 --> 01:27:49,020
It's like what he was talking

2429
01:27:49,020 --> 01:27:52,020
about the first time he came up.

2430
01:27:52,020 --> 01:27:53,020
The next, what is not written

2431
01:27:53,020 --> 01:27:55,020
there in brackets is the next

2432
01:27:55,020 --> 01:27:59,020
regular sitting. There is

2433
01:27:59,020 --> 01:28:00,080
nothing that says it's an

2434
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:01,080
emergency to do an extraordinary

2435
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,080
meeting. It says the next

2436
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:04,080
sitting, because last week Mayor

2437
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:07,080
Thomas said it could be

2438
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:08,080
discussed again or voted again

2439
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:11,080
in February. I'm really opposed

2440
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:12,080
to how this -- I think this

2441
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:16,080
council is stepping over the

2442
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:17,080
boundaries. I don't even know

2443
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:21,080
how it came about to be passed.

2444
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:23,080
I think they are taking the

2445
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:24,080
councillor is taking away from

2446
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:27,080
the Mayor's powers. I don't know

2447
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,080
why the clerk allowed this

2448
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:30,080
meeting to happen. I think it

2449
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:32,080
should all be re-visited. I

2450
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:33,080
don't know how this citizens of

2451
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:38,080
Pointe-Claire feel about. This

2452
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:39,080
was very upsetting for me.

2453
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:42,080
>> Miss Conway, the process was

2454
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:43,080
acceptable. That's the way it's

2455
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:47,080
done. I can deny the meeting and

2456
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:49,080
then four councillors can get

2457
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:50,080
together, sign and have a

2458
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:51,080
meeting called. They are allowed

2459
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:52,080
to do that.

2460
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:53,080
>> You had said at the past

2461
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:54,080
meeting it would be discussed

2462
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:56,080
again on February 7th or 17th

2463
01:28:56,080 --> 01:29:00,040
and nobody said anything then.

2464
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:01,040
>> I was anticipating going to

2465
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,040
February. I wish we had. I, like

2466
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:05,040
you, don't see the need for this

2467
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:06,040
meeting. I feel it's

2468
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:07,040
unfortunate.

2469
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:09,040
>> Yes. Okay. That was the point

2470
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:14,040
I was making also. So Friday, I

2471
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:20,040
saw online all the discussion.

2472
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:21,040
Over the weekend, I participated

2473
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,040
in the discussion. In no time at

2474
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:26,040
all people wear replying that I

2475
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:29,040
was doing misinformation. I

2476
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:31,040
don't do misinformation. If

2477
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,040
anything, this document, of the

2478
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:36,040
resolution for the public

2479
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:37,040
participation in determining the

2480
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:41,040
future of zones Mu1 and Mu2 --

2481
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,040
at last meeting, it was repeated

2482
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:45,040
a few times that the meetings

2483
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:49,040
will be in-camera. Those

2484
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:51,040
meetings are going to be behind

2485
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:52,040
closed doors. Those meetings

2486
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:55,040
behind closed doors, does the

2487
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,040
public have access to what is

2488
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:59,040
being filmed in-camera? It's

2489
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:00,000
written in the resolution. I

2490
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,000
find this document is anything

2491
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:04,000
that is misleading. I want to

2492
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:06,000
know moving forward the

2493
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:07,000
documents that you are writing

2494
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:11,000
our -- you know, it's your eyes

2495
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:14,000
and cross your t's.

2496
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:17,000
>> If I may, camera -- in French

2497
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,000
and the equivalent is behind

2498
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,000
closed doors in private. Not

2499
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,000
accessible to others.

2500
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:27,000
>>

2501
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:28,000
- C'est une expression. When

2502
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:33,000
it's written --

2503
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:39,000
>> This, it means closed doors?

2504
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:43,000
Okay. I learned something. I

2505
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:44,000
hope the documents that follows

2506
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:47,000
this is going to be more

2507
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:52,000
straightforward and

2508
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:59,000
-- okay. I think that is it.

2509
01:31:07,060 --> 01:31:11,060
>> That's it, Miss?

2510
01:31:11,060 --> 01:31:12,060
>> I want to say I find the

2511
01:31:12,060 --> 01:31:16,060
whole thing it is, you know, not

2512
01:31:17,060 --> 01:31:20,060
very pleasant. I spent the whole

2513
01:31:20,060 --> 01:31:21,060
weekend reading stuff that was

2514
01:31:21,060 --> 01:31:24,060
posted online. Some of the stuff

2515
01:31:24,060 --> 01:31:27,060
was not pleasant to read at all.

2516
01:31:27,060 --> 01:31:28,060
I just wish you good luck moving

2517
01:31:28,060 --> 01:31:29,060
forward.

2518
01:31:29,060 --> 01:31:34,060
>> Thank you.

2519
01:31:36,060 --> 01:31:39,060
>> I have no question. I would

2520
01:31:39,060 --> 01:31:44,060
like for Mr. Johnson to go.

2521
01:31:48,060 --> 01:31:49,060
>> My name is David Johnston,

2522
01:31:49,060 --> 01:31:54,060
district one. I will stay my own

2523
01:31:55,060 --> 01:31:57,060
personal -- first. I'm generally

2524
01:31:57,060 --> 01:32:00,020
favourable to the scale of

2525
01:32:00,020 --> 01:32:03,020
development Cadillac Fairview is

2526
01:32:03,020 --> 01:32:05,020
proposing for Mu1. Generally

2527
01:32:05,020 --> 01:32:07,020
favourable for preservation of

2528
01:32:07,020 --> 01:32:11,020
the forest in Mu2. There are

2529
01:32:12,020 --> 01:32:13,020
precedents for its in

2530
01:32:13,020 --> 01:32:14,020
metropolitan regions. There is

2531
01:32:14,020 --> 01:32:15,020
downtown Montréal and Mount

2532
01:32:15,020 --> 01:32:20,020
Royal. I hope that happens.

2533
01:32:21,020 --> 01:32:23,020
- Le diable est parfois dans les

2534
01:32:23,020 --> 01:32:28,020
détails. Je connais ça. I have

2535
01:32:28,020 --> 01:32:30,020
questions about consultation.

2536
01:32:30,020 --> 01:32:34,020
Let me first say that I do

2537
01:32:34,020 --> 01:32:35,020
support moving forward with

2538
01:32:35,020 --> 01:32:40,020
talks with Cadillac Fairview, in

2539
01:32:41,020 --> 01:32:43,020
view of the fact that there are

2540
01:32:43,020 --> 01:32:44,020
other things happening in the

2541
01:32:44,020 --> 01:32:47,020
environment. There is the legal

2542
01:32:47,020 --> 01:32:49,020
proceedings in Québec superior

2543
01:32:49,020 --> 01:32:51,020
court. There is also new rules

2544
01:32:51,020 --> 01:32:54,020
coming down from the Québec

2545
01:32:54,020 --> 01:32:58,020
government on densification.

2546
01:32:58,020 --> 01:33:00,080
- Le conseiller Bisson a fait

2547
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,080
référence à cette politique

2548
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:03,080
québécoise à la fin de la

2549
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:07,080
dernière réunion. These new

2550
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:11,080
rules will not be favourable to

2551
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:12,080
intercity suburbs like

2552
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:13,080
Pointe-Claire. Their chief goes

2553
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:14,080
to protect farmland, fight urban

2554
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:18,080
sprawl, it's going to be heavy

2555
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:22,080
pressure on Pointe-Claire. I

2556
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:26,080
fear that the new rules maybe so

2557
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:28,080
stretchy that they will take

2558
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,080
away some maneuvering and

2559
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:33,080
negotiation for Pointe-Claire.

2560
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:35,080
As I said, the question has to

2561
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:37,080
do with consultation. I wonder

2562
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:40,080
whether we have not had it

2563
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:41,080
already, and if we had, what was

2564
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:44,080
wrong with it? Correct me if I'm

2565
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:45,080
wrong, we had the special

2566
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:48,080
planning program for downtown.

2567
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:49,080
There was some consultation with

2568
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:53,080
that. Then there was the draft

2569
01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:58,080
of the revised urban plan. There

2570
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:00,040
was considerable consultation

2571
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:05,040
for it. Then there was the

2572
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:07,040
election, the controlled

2573
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:09,040
resolution and bylaw. There is a

2574
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:10,040
timeline on the website that

2575
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:14,040
shows what was to have happened

2576
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:15,040
over the past year. Certain

2577
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:18,040
boxes are clicked off. But the

2578
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:21,040
box for consultations, winter

2579
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:24,040
2023 is empty. This is a five

2580
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:27,040
month problem. The City has not

2581
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:29,040
been able to, in five months,

2582
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:34,040
come together and find a way

2583
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:38,040
forward with that. Particularly

2584
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:40,040
with the election, all of a

2585
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:42,040
sudden it became a political

2586
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:47,040
issue. I take it that the

2587
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:50,040
elephant in the room really is

2588
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:52,040
Cadillac Fairview. It's not, we

2589
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,040
need some kind of plan, we need

2590
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:55,040
more time to think. It seems to

2591
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,040
me we've done a lot of that. It

2592
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:00,000
seems to me that the focus is

2593
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,000
really about the future of

2594
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:06,000
Cadillac Fairview, which seems

2595
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,000
to me to argue in favour of a

2596
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:13,000
separate approach, treating

2597
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:15,000
Cadillac Fairview and its plans

2598
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:18,000
in the future of the forest

2599
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:20,000
separately and giving it the

2600
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:25,000
primary attention. Have the

2601
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:28,000
consultations that have been

2602
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:32,000
done to date been inadequate? Or

2603
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:33,000
have they been useful?

2604
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:38,000
>> Which consultations? What

2605
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:41,000
consultations? There haven't

2606
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:42,000
been any public consultations at

2607
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:46,000
all. We have had meetings. We

2608
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:48,000
haven't had consultations. The

2609
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,000
public have not been invited to

2610
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:51,000
consult on the urban plan at

2611
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:56,000
all. If I can speak to your -- a

2612
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:57,000
couple of the biases in the

2613
01:35:57,000 --> 01:36:01,060
preamble, for densification,

2614
01:36:01,060 --> 01:36:03,060
there are many ways to densify a

2615
01:36:03,060 --> 01:36:04,060
city without going 25 storeys

2616
01:36:04,060 --> 01:36:07,060
high. There is this thing called

2617
01:36:07,060 --> 01:36:08,060
-- happens all over North

2618
01:36:08,060 --> 01:36:11,060
America, where you can densify,

2619
01:36:11,060 --> 01:36:12,060
you can do duplexes, triplexes,

2620
01:36:12,060 --> 01:36:14,060
you can do semi detached homes.

2621
01:36:14,060 --> 01:36:17,060
You can do all kinds of

2622
01:36:17,060 --> 01:36:18,060
developments that identify in a

2623
01:36:18,060 --> 01:36:19,060
way that is much more human

2624
01:36:19,060 --> 01:36:21,060
scale, much more satisfying to

2625
01:36:21,060 --> 01:36:23,060
the citizens of that city other

2626
01:36:23,060 --> 01:36:25,060
than 25 stories. I take

2627
01:36:25,060 --> 01:36:27,060
exception with your preference

2628
01:36:27,060 --> 01:36:28,060
for that one. I think most of

2629
01:36:28,060 --> 01:36:31,060
Pointe-Claire would. There has

2630
01:36:31,060 --> 01:36:33,060
been debate along the way. There

2631
01:36:33,060 --> 01:36:35,060
is this big thing called the

2632
01:36:35,060 --> 01:36:38,060
election which elected a mayor

2633
01:36:38,060 --> 01:36:40,060
who does not see 25 stories as

2634
01:36:40,060 --> 01:36:44,060
the way to go. It was a pretty

2635
01:36:44,060 --> 01:36:45,060
powerful statement of that.

2636
01:36:45,060 --> 01:36:47,060
>> In fairness, Mister Mayor,

2637
01:36:47,060 --> 01:36:50,060
they also elected six council.

2638
01:36:50,060 --> 01:36:51,060
>> Correct, some of whom seem to

2639
01:36:51,060 --> 01:36:55,060
be on that track. But to get to

2640
01:36:55,060 --> 01:36:57,060
where I really take exception

2641
01:36:57,060 --> 01:37:00,020
with your comment, and it shows

2642
01:37:00,020 --> 01:37:01,020
perhaps a not complete

2643
01:37:01,020 --> 01:37:02,020
understanding of the city of

2644
01:37:02,020 --> 01:37:03,020
Pointe-Claire, this urban plan

2645
01:37:03,020 --> 01:37:07,020
is not about Cadillac Fairview.

2646
01:37:07,020 --> 01:37:08,020
I worried desperately about the

2647
01:37:08,020 --> 01:37:10,020
plaza. Excuse me, sir. I'm

2648
01:37:10,020 --> 01:37:13,020
answering. I worry desperately

2649
01:37:13,020 --> 01:37:18,020
about the plaza. The

2650
01:37:20,020 --> 01:37:21,020
Pointe-Claire plaza is a crucial

2651
01:37:21,020 --> 01:37:23,020
development for the outcome of

2652
01:37:23,020 --> 01:37:25,020
this urban plan. All of the

2653
01:37:25,020 --> 01:37:27,020
other shopping centres are

2654
01:37:27,020 --> 01:37:28,020
crucial to our urban

2655
01:37:28,020 --> 01:37:31,020
development. There are others.

2656
01:37:31,020 --> 01:37:33,020
There are four others. We are

2657
01:37:33,020 --> 01:37:34,020
not just Cadillac Fairview here.

2658
01:37:34,020 --> 01:37:36,020
It is just one part of it. The

2659
01:37:36,020 --> 01:37:38,020
others are going to have to be

2660
01:37:38,020 --> 01:37:39,020
treated -- it may night may not

2661
01:37:39,020 --> 01:37:43,020
be treated the same way. The

2662
01:37:43,020 --> 01:37:45,020
other thing is there are two

2663
01:37:45,020 --> 01:37:47,020
villages. The development

2664
01:37:47,020 --> 01:37:49,020
already in one of our cultural

2665
01:37:49,020 --> 01:37:51,020
villages that wasn't acceptable

2666
01:37:51,020 --> 01:37:52,020
to the citizens of

2667
01:37:52,020 --> 01:37:53,020
Pointe-Claire, no matter which

2668
01:37:53,020 --> 01:37:56,020
densification occurred. There is

2669
01:37:56,020 --> 01:37:57,020
much more than Cadillac Fairview

2670
01:37:57,020 --> 01:38:02,080
in this proposal. My final

2671
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:05,080
comment is that the most inside

2672
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:08,080
area in Montréal right now is

2673
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:09,080
the Plateau-Mont-Royal. It is

2674
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:12,080
three storeys high.

2675
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:15,080
>> And 200 years old. Three

2676
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:16,080
storeys high. It is the most

2677
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:20,080
densify. We can do it as well.

2678
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:21,080
>> Any other comments?

2679
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:23,080
>> Yes, I have a comment.

2680
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:25,080
>> From my understanding, when

2681
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:28,080
we hired -- there were two

2682
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:29,080
public consultations. One was

2683
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:31,080
urban, plan which happened a

2684
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:33,080
couple weeks ago. I think there

2685
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:35,080
were seven people who signed up

2686
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:36,080
and 20 people who attended. The

2687
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:38,080
second one was the actual public

2688
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,080
consultation with the citizens

2689
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:42,080
in reference to specifically

2690
01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:44,080
Cadillac Fairview. We all agreed

2691
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:46,080
upon that. And that is my

2692
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:48,080
understanding of the public

2693
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:49,080
consultations.

2694
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:51,080
>> Very in mind, there is a

2695
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:53,080
difference between a strategic

2696
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:56,080
plan and the RCI. They are

2697
01:38:56,080 --> 01:39:00,040
different creatures. The

2698
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:01,040
consultation for the strategic

2699
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:02,040
plan should not be confused with

2700
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:05,040
public participation.

2701
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:06,040
>> You are welcome for that

2702
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:07,040
clarification.

2703
01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:11,040
>> Mister Mayor, one comment

2704
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:13,040
regarding and the terminology of

2705
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:14,040
public consultation versus

2706
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:15,040
public participation. Two big

2707
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:18,040
different things. As I explained

2708
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,040
earlier, public consultation

2709
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:22,040
tends to be a short term process

2710
01:39:22,040 --> 01:39:24,040
where you ask for advice and

2711
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:26,040
opinions on a particular

2712
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:31,040
direction, more or less. Public

2713
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:34,040
participation would include the

2714
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:36,040
participation of citizens who

2715
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:37,040
live in the area, citizens

2716
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,040
outside of the area of

2717
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:40,040
Pointe-Claire would have the

2718
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:41,040
opportunity to be part of the

2719
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:42,040
decision-making process in terms

2720
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:45,040
of what they see being and

2721
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:46,040
integrated development in the

2722
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:47,040
area going forward. You have to

2723
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:49,040
be careful with those. We've not

2724
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:50,040
had a public participation

2725
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:52,040
opportunity with regard to that,

2726
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:54,040
or any discussion that pertains

2727
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:55,040
to that area. The other thing

2728
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:58,040
you have to remember, because

2729
01:39:58,040 --> 01:39:59,040
everyone is always harping on

2730
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:00,000
the delays and talks and

2731
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,000
thinking and this and that,

2732
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,000
again, it is going to be a

2733
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:05,000
project that's going to have an

2734
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:06,000
impact and shape our city for

2735
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:09,000
the next 60 years. Getting that

2736
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:12,000
right, both for us and for the

2737
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,000
folks who currently owns that

2738
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:18,000
property, given all the

2739
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:19,000
different changes in their

2740
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:23,000
space, it is important. From a

2741
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:25,000
practical standpoint, I know I

2742
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:27,000
started my first mandate here,

2743
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:28,000
we were still looking for a

2744
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,000
director of urban planning. We

2745
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,000
do not have a director of urban

2746
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,000
planning. We also went through a

2747
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:35,000
process of waiting until we were

2748
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:36,000
able to get our new director

2749
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,000
general into place. We had to

2750
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:40,000
wait for some of these

2751
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:41,000
administrative things to happen

2752
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:42,000
in order to move forward on

2753
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:47,000
these procedures. There has also

2754
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:48,000
been hesitation with

2755
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,000
availability, tight schedules,

2756
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:51,000
et cetera, et cetera, that slow

2757
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:55,000
things down. I, more than

2758
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:56,000
anyone, would like to see this

2759
01:40:56,000 --> 01:41:00,060
process over. It would be a nice

2760
01:41:00,060 --> 01:41:03,060
thing for us to work on plans

2761
01:41:03,060 --> 01:41:05,060
everybody agrees with going

2762
01:41:05,060 --> 01:41:07,060
forward. I think we need more

2763
01:41:07,060 --> 01:41:08,060
patients with regards to the

2764
01:41:08,060 --> 01:41:10,060
process.

2765
01:41:10,060 --> 01:41:14,060
>> If I could add, densification

2766
01:41:14,060 --> 01:41:16,060
has happened in Pointe-Claire in

2767
01:41:16,060 --> 01:41:18,060
the last ten, 15 years. We see

2768
01:41:18,060 --> 01:41:20,060
evidence of densification. We

2769
01:41:20,060 --> 01:41:24,060
see it. We see Hymus West. The

2770
01:41:24,060 --> 01:41:26,060
difference, the men who are

2771
01:41:26,060 --> 01:41:27,060
project is a different -- I'm

2772
01:41:27,060 --> 01:41:28,060
not talking about the same

2773
01:41:28,060 --> 01:41:30,060
thing. I'm talking about the

2774
01:41:30,060 --> 01:41:32,060
Greenwich project behind the --

2775
01:41:32,060 --> 01:41:35,060
these are two separate

2776
01:41:35,060 --> 01:41:36,060
densification projects. These

2777
01:41:36,060 --> 01:41:37,060
are what we've done so far as a

2778
01:41:37,060 --> 01:41:42,060
city. I ask you, are they good

2779
01:41:42,060 --> 01:41:43,060
enough? Are they what we want to

2780
01:41:43,060 --> 01:41:45,060
do going forward? Have we done

2781
01:41:45,060 --> 01:41:47,060
well? Have we identified in a

2782
01:41:47,060 --> 01:41:50,060
way that is pleasing

2783
01:41:50,060 --> 01:41:51,060
aesthetically or otherwise to

2784
01:41:51,060 --> 01:41:52,060
the citizens of Pointe-Claire? I

2785
01:41:52,060 --> 01:41:54,060
would argue for the most part,

2786
01:41:54,060 --> 01:41:58,060
that may not be the case. I find

2787
01:41:58,060 --> 01:42:01,020
the project is not for me. What

2788
01:42:01,020 --> 01:42:02,020
I thought Pointe-Claire should

2789
01:42:02,020 --> 01:42:06,020
look like. I find Hymus west is

2790
01:42:06,020 --> 01:42:08,020
a series of hodgepodge

2791
01:42:08,020 --> 01:42:09,020
high-rises that have no relation

2792
01:42:09,020 --> 01:42:11,020
to each other and are devoid of

2793
01:42:11,020 --> 01:42:15,020
any plan. There is nothing wrong

2794
01:42:15,020 --> 01:42:16,020
with identifying. Going forward,

2795
01:42:16,020 --> 01:42:17,020
as a city, let's densify in a

2796
01:42:17,020 --> 01:42:19,020
way that we can prevent the

2797
01:42:19,020 --> 01:42:20,020
mistakes of the past and do a

2798
01:42:20,020 --> 01:42:23,020
better job going forward. There

2799
01:42:23,020 --> 01:42:25,020
is no objection to

2800
01:42:25,020 --> 01:42:26,020
densification. It's just, let's

2801
01:42:26,020 --> 01:42:29,020
do it properly and I would argue

2802
01:42:29,020 --> 01:42:33,020
-- let's go not 25 stories.

2803
01:42:34,020 --> 01:42:37,020
[Applause]

2804
01:42:37,020 --> 01:42:38,020
We are not allowed to clap. We

2805
01:42:38,020 --> 01:42:40,020
are not allowed to clad.

2806
01:42:40,020 --> 01:42:43,020
>> Time is up.

2807
01:42:43,020 --> 01:42:46,020
>> Time is? Up sorry, ma'am.

2808
01:42:46,020 --> 01:42:47,020
>> We are at the limit? Sorry

2809
01:42:47,020 --> 01:42:49,020
about that. My apologies to both

2810
01:42:49,020 --> 01:42:54,020
of you.

2811
01:42:55,020 --> 01:42:58,020
>> No! No!! No excuse me sir. No

2812
01:42:58,020 --> 01:42:59,020
thank you. Nobody wants to

2813
01:42:59,020 --> 01:43:01,080
comment. Thank you very much

2814
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:03,080
sir, nobody would like to

2815
01:43:03,080 --> 01:43:04,080
comment. This citizens and the

2816
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:07,080
chair have spoken. Thank you.

2817
01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:08,080
These two will speak before you

2818
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:09,080
will, sir. They were waiting at

2819
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:13,080
the mic. Excuse me, sir. Go

2820
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:17,080
ahead, Paul.

2821
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:19,080
>> Thank you. I would like to

2822
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:20,080
repeat again, I think you are

2823
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:22,080
way ahead of yourself. The

2824
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:23,080
resolution tech concerns one

2825
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:26,080
thing. Because there's been a

2826
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:28,080
delay and we were complaining

2827
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:29,080
that we weren't moving fast

2828
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:30,080
enough, the two parties are the

2829
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:34,080
city and Cadillac Fairview. The

2830
01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:38,080
city and Cadillac Fairview. It

2831
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:41,080
has been well over years since

2832
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:44,080
there's been any discussion,

2833
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:45,080
early 2020 when they had

2834
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:48,080
discussions. Nothing is

2835
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:49,080
happening. If nobody talk to

2836
01:43:49,080 --> 01:43:51,080
each other, nothing is going to

2837
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:54,080
happen. The reason why we had a

2838
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:57,080
council as well as a city

2839
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:58,080
administration in early

2840
01:43:58,080 --> 01:44:01,040
December, we had one RCI meeting

2841
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:02,040
and it was unanimous at that

2842
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:07,040
time. We wanted to have a

2843
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:10,040
meeting to see what's going on.

2844
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:11,040
What do they want to, do

2845
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:13,040
whatever their plans? Don't

2846
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:15,040
forget, they have gotten -- I

2847
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:17,040
believe it wasn't over in

2848
01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:22,040
November, -- we have not seen

2849
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:26,040
it. We have asked for

2850
01:44:26,040 --> 01:44:29,040
information to get that. That's

2851
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:30,040
another -- this type of thing

2852
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:31,040
you have to talk to somebody,

2853
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,040
you have to find out where they

2854
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:35,040
are coming from so we know where

2855
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:37,040
we are going to go on this.

2856
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:39,040
Based on that, we will consider.

2857
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:41,040
That's what the City

2858
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:42,040
participation is all about,

2859
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:45,040
which is a voluntary

2860
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:48,040
participation by citizens and

2861
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:50,040
that's we want to organize. The

2862
01:44:50,040 --> 01:44:54,040
public consultation with a V CDP

2863
01:44:54,040 --> 01:44:55,040
is a legal requirement. You have

2864
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:56,040
to talk about the criteria then

2865
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:59,040
look at the final plan. That's

2866
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:00,000
what we are looking at right

2867
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:05,000
now. If you talk about the --

2868
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:08,000
and what they did is go through

2869
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:12,000
different steps. They invited

2870
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:14,000
770 households to a session

2871
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:15,000
where they explained what they

2872
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:17,000
were going to do and they told

2873
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:20,000
the people they were going to

2874
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:24,000
open with a task force with 20

2875
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:25,000
of 12 people, they had eight

2876
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:26,000
residents, they have NDG, the

2877
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:30,000
city manager, the director of

2878
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:32,000
planning, the owner of the

2879
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:34,000
property, and the construction.

2880
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:35,000
The president of the

2881
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:36,000
construction company. They

2882
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:38,000
formed a task force. They had

2883
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:39,000
roughly seven or eight meetings

2884
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:42,000
over the course of six months to

2885
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:43,000
three quarters -- I don't know.

2886
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:47,000
Six and 12 month. They worked

2887
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:48,000
out the difference. They came up

2888
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:51,000
with a plan and then they

2889
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:52,000
presented it to people. You are

2890
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:54,000
way ahead of yourself by talking

2891
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:55,000
about what's going to happen

2892
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:57,000
down the road in maybe a year,

2893
01:45:57,000 --> 01:45:59,000
two years from now. We have not

2894
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:00,060
started to work, okay? Let's not

2895
01:46:00,060 --> 01:46:04,060
run. The first things to talk to

2896
01:46:04,060 --> 01:46:05,060
Cadillac Fairview and see where

2897
01:46:05,060 --> 01:46:06,060
they are going. Like Mr. Cowan

2898
01:46:06,060 --> 01:46:10,060
said, and other people have said

2899
01:46:10,060 --> 01:46:12,060
tonight, if things are not

2900
01:46:12,060 --> 01:46:13,060
compatible, that's another

2901
01:46:13,060 --> 01:46:14,060
story. Then we will have to make

2902
01:46:14,060 --> 01:46:16,060
a decision on that. First of,

2903
01:46:16,060 --> 01:46:21,060
all we have to talk to them.

2904
01:46:24,060 --> 01:46:29,060
>> If I could just add to that

2905
01:46:31,060 --> 01:46:32,060
Councillor is starting a

2906
01:46:32,060 --> 01:46:33,060
process. Michigan to talk to

2907
01:46:33,060 --> 01:46:37,060
somebody. I think the people we

2908
01:46:37,060 --> 01:46:42,060
should talk to first of the

2909
01:46:42,060 --> 01:46:44,060
citizens on the timer framework

2910
01:46:44,060 --> 01:46:46,060
among the citizens of what they

2911
01:46:46,060 --> 01:46:49,060
have vision for the city going

2912
01:46:49,060 --> 01:46:50,060
forward and then speak to all

2913
01:46:50,060 --> 01:46:52,060
the rest of the development of

2914
01:46:52,060 --> 01:46:56,060
the city based on the collective

2915
01:46:56,060 --> 01:47:00,020
Aegean. That is the ideal

2916
01:47:00,020 --> 01:47:02,020
scenario. I want to add more

2917
01:47:02,020 --> 01:47:05,020
Serena but more. Then we will

2918
01:47:05,020 --> 01:47:06,020
have closure. Go ahead.

2919
01:47:06,020 --> 01:47:07,020
>> I don't make a point. The

2920
01:47:07,020 --> 01:47:08,020
construction that took place in

2921
01:47:08,020 --> 01:47:09,020
Pointe-Claire during the past

2922
01:47:09,020 --> 01:47:12,020
few years wasn't something high

2923
01:47:12,020 --> 01:47:16,020
in the sky in 2011 the City had

2924
01:47:17,020 --> 01:47:20,020
a mass citizen participation.

2925
01:47:20,020 --> 01:47:21,020
Which units John. Ronnie there

2926
01:47:21,020 --> 01:47:24,020
were all kinds of informations,

2927
01:47:24,020 --> 01:47:26,020
emails, other sections that were

2928
01:47:26,020 --> 01:47:31,020
organized. So -- those all the

2929
01:47:33,020 --> 01:47:37,020
residents that participated, not

2930
01:47:37,020 --> 01:47:39,020
enough residences in

2931
01:47:39,020 --> 01:47:41,020
Pointe-Claire. Not just the

2932
01:47:41,020 --> 01:47:42,020
seniors and wanted to sell

2933
01:47:42,020 --> 01:47:45,020
their, house they want to stay

2934
01:47:45,020 --> 01:47:48,020
in Pointe-Claire.. There are

2935
01:47:48,020 --> 01:47:49,020
more apartments put into the

2936
01:47:49,020 --> 01:47:51,020
plan. It wasn't a full consult

2937
01:47:51,020 --> 01:47:54,020
consultation for people. They

2938
01:47:54,020 --> 01:47:56,020
knew without a surprise.

2939
01:47:56,020 --> 01:47:57,020
>> Yet, now we have a fair

2940
01:47:57,020 --> 01:47:58,020
amount of senior residences,

2941
01:47:58,020 --> 01:48:00,080
don't we? We have the lowest

2942
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:04,080
number of zero to 12-year-olds.

2943
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:09,080
So, we all pictures our visions.

2944
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:15,080
>> District, for a move to

2945
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:17,080
close.

2946
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:20,080
>> Seconder? Colin, district

2947
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:21,080
three.

2948
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:22,080
>> All in favour?

2949
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:23,080
>> Right, folks thank you so

2950
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:27,080
much for being here.

2951
01:48:27,080 --> 01:48:28,080
- Je vous apprécie.

2952
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:29,080
Merci pour vos efforts.