[0:39] - Mesdames et Messieurs,
[0:40] bonsoir. Ladies and gentlemen's
[0:41] good evening. Bienvenue à cette
[0:43] séance extraordinaire du 16
[0:44] avril. Welcome to the evil 16th
[0:47] special meeting. Du 14 au 20
[0:53] avril, c'est la semaine de
[0:54] l'action bénévole qui a pour
[0:57] thème: ça compte toujours. Les
[1:00] membres du conseil et moi-même
[1:02] profitons de cette semaine pour
[1:04] souligner les contributions de
[1:06] nombreux bénévoles qui ouvrent à
[1:11] Pointe-Claire. Vos actions font
[1:12] une différence profonde dans
[1:14] notre communauté. Nous vous
[1:18] remercions de votre générosité
[1:20] et du temps que vous consacrez
[1:22] aux différents organismes et
[1:25] initiatives de notre ville.
[1:28] April 14th to 20th's national
[1:31] volunteer week, with the theme
[1:33] every moment matters. The
[1:35] council members and I would like
[1:36] to take this opportunity to
[1:38] highlight the contributions of
[1:39] the many volunteers who work in
[1:41] Pointe-Claire. Your actions make
[1:42] a profound difference in our
[1:45] community. The we thank you for
[1:47] your generosity and the time you
[1:49] devote to the city's various
[1:50] organizations and initiatives.
[1:54] Jour de la Terre. Les
[1:56] réservations sont en cours pour
[1:57] la distribution des arbres
[2:00] offerts dans le cadre du jour de
[2:02] la Terre. Vous avez jusqu'au 24
[2:05] avril pour réserver l'arbre que
[2:08] vous souhaitez planter sur votre
[2:11] propriété. Je vous invite à
[2:13] réserver votre arbre dès
[2:15] maintenant. Il s'agit d'une
[2:17] action concrète, conjointe de la
[2:21] ville et des citoyens pour
[2:23] l'environnement afin de
[2:24] maintenir la santé et la
[2:25] diversité de la canopée de notre
[2:28] territoire. Reservations are
[2:30] underway for the distribution of
[2:32] birthday trees. You have until
[2:34] April 24th through the tree you
[2:36] wish to plant on your property.
[2:38] I encourage you to reserve your
[2:40] tree now. This is a concrete
[2:42] joint action by the City and the
[2:44] citizens to support the
[2:46] environment and maintain the
[2:47] health and diversity of our
[2:48] regions canopy. Bon, maintenant,
[2:55] l'agenda, je pense.
[2:58] - Georges Laurier 1.1 Adoption
[2:59] de l'ordre du jour. Adoption of
[3:00] the agenda.
[3:01] >> Do I have a mover? Nous
[3:02] ailleurs
[3:08] >> Seconder?
[3:09] >> Eric Stork, district 1.
[3:12] >> All in favour?
[3:13] Question period.
[3:27] >> Good evening. What about the
[3:29] question? I have to know what
[3:31] about it?
[3:33] >> He didn't ask one if you
[3:34] don't know what you're going to
[3:35] ask, sir. Oh, you mean, the item
[3:38] on the agenda is the request to
[3:40] support from the Ministère des
[3:42] Affaires municipales et de
[3:45] l'Habitation, MAMH.
[3:46] >> In English, please.
[3:48] >> The request to get support
[3:50] from the MAMH, the higher level
[3:52] upper level of the provincial
[3:53] government to intervene with the
[3:56] trends -- and translating free
[3:58] flow here, the incongruence or
[4:01] the problematic's of
[4:02] Pointe-Claire politics. I'm
[4:04] giving you a very cursory
[4:06] analysis.
[4:07] >> Okay, but we know all the
[4:09] problems is with the previous
[4:11] City Council. They don't want to
[4:12] work with you, because they
[4:13] won't get the --
[4:16] >> Mister Nasr El Dabee, that is
[4:18] --
[4:19] >> Look, I'm a witness since the
[4:22] start as a mayor. All -- again
[4:25] is their policy, didn't want to
[4:31] accomplish your run for us, so
[4:33] they can't get back the previous
[4:35] one, the previous Mayor. That is
[4:37] very clear for all of us. I ask
[4:40] anyone in Pointe-Claire, that is
[4:42] what they say. Ask all of them,
[4:44] they are going to say the same
[4:45] thing.
[4:46] >> Not all of them.
[4:47] >> Sorry, I didn't finish. So
[4:49] please, before you start asking
[4:51] somebody to come from outside
[4:53] the city to manage our city, we
[4:56] elected all of you to manage our
[5:00] city. It's very clear what we
[5:03] need, the environment, to stop
[5:05] all the high rise building and
[5:06] have affordable house for a
[5:08] young family and future
[5:11] generations. That is what the
[5:13] previous people did for us. We
[5:16] have to care. You all have kids,
[5:18] and you don't have grandkids if
[5:20] they don't have affordable
[5:22] housing, what are they going to
[5:23] do? Money is not the reason. We
[5:28] have to stop thinking about
[5:30] ourself. We have to think about
[5:31] the next generation, please.
[5:34] >> Mr., El Dabee, do you have a
[5:36] question?
[5:37] >> That is why I'm asking, are
[5:38] you going to do, that are you
[5:39] going to get somebody from
[5:40] outside to manage our city?
[5:41] >> I will answer myself
[5:43] personally. I am going to do
[5:44] that, yes.
[5:45] >> So what is the --
[5:46] >> I can't speak for others.
[5:48] >> They hire some people from
[5:52] outside to bother you.
[5:53] >> Mr. El Dabee, I cannot answer
[5:56] for others. I will give them the
[5:58] opportunity to answer you, if
[5:59] they choose to do so. Eric?
[6:08] >> No comment.
[6:09] >> The next one?
[6:15] [Inaudible]
[6:19] >> And you, you hire someone to
[6:21] talk for you, he can talk now?
[6:23] >> No comment.
[6:25] >> Wow, that is good. The next
[6:27] one, please.
[6:31] [Inaudible]
[6:32] -- Going down the line.
[6:34] >> I offered you the
[6:36] opportunity. He's asking all of
[6:38] us as a Council to answer to why
[6:42] this is happening and whether we
[6:44] are going to continue to try to
[6:45] get along, I answered that yes
[6:47] indeed I would. And I suspect
[6:50] that what we are doing I think
[6:51] is unnecessary. But I have
[6:55] answered on my part, he's asking
[6:57] others to answer on their part.
[6:58] He is a citizen and I think he
[7:00] should be able to ask that.
[7:03] >> Sir, --
[7:08] >> Later I will make my comments
[7:09] when I
[7:10] [Inaudible]
[7:12] --
[7:13] [Inaudible]
[7:14] Prepared to comment after. I
[7:15] will say the exact same thing
[7:17] I'm going to --
[7:18] >> So we are supposed to be
[7:19] asking the question, after all
[7:21] of you are talking.
[7:22] >> Mr. El Dabee, you are allowed
[7:25] one preamble, he short preamble,
[7:27] into questions, but you are not
[7:30] respecting. You are calling
[7:31] people hey you, rather than
[7:33] address people politely. And you
[7:35] are expecting us to answer a
[7:37] very unclear question. This is
[7:39] not to bring somebody in to run
[7:40] the city. This resolution is to
[7:42] bring somebody in to give us
[7:45] tools in order to better
[7:49] function.
[7:50] >> But I'm witnessing, you're
[7:51] not doing the right job.
[7:54] >> Mister El Dabee --
[7:58] >> He's asking for help.
[7:59] >> I've never seen that before.
[8:01] And the previous Mayor, you all
[8:02] want him to be back. But we
[8:04] don't want him, because we want
[8:06] the mayor, who told us --
[8:12] >> Mr. El Dabee, that's not for
[8:16] me to decide. Mr. El Dabee, you
[8:20] have asked a question to all of
[8:22] Council and you're asking all of
[8:24] Council to respond, is that what
[8:25] you are trying to do?
[8:27] >> Yes, that is what I said.
[8:28] >> And Council just have to say
[8:29] if they choose not to, they
[8:31] choose not to, which is what we
[8:32] are doing. So would you like to
[8:37] --
[8:38] >> Please, can we have the
[8:39] question after all they have
[8:40] their comment, so at least we
[8:41] know all but you are going to
[8:42] say?
[8:43] >> No, question period is
[8:44] before, Mister El Dabee.
[8:46] Question period is before.
[8:47] >> I know, but we don't know
[8:48] what they are going to say.
[8:49] >> I agree.
[8:50] >> So we have to have the right
[8:52] answer.
[8:53] >> I agree, I don't enjoy that
[8:54] process either. But that is the
[8:56] way it is structured.
[8:57] >> Okay, I wish you all will and
[8:59] work altogether. That is what
[9:00] they elect you for. Please.
[9:03] >> Okay, El Dabee,. Line Conway?
[9:11] - Bonsoir. Good evening. So this
[9:15] meeting was a bit of a surprise
[9:16] because on the web page, the
[9:18] council web page, we really have
[9:22] to go for the general meetings,
[9:24] it shows up. But for the special
[9:26] meeting, we have to click and
[9:27] see and it's always a surprise
[9:29] to see that something pops up
[9:32] once in a while. Because 6.1 is
[9:37] the request for support from the
[9:40] Ministère des Affaires
[9:41] municipales et de l'Habitation,
[9:44] MAMH.,
[9:58] .,, -- To see what 6.1 was
[10:05] about. And there was no nothing.
[10:07] So you just said there's gonna
[10:09] be a resolution. And we know
[10:11] what the title of the resolution
[10:14] is, of the resolution, can you
[10:15] read the resolution to us?
[10:18] >> The title of the resolution,
[10:20] you want to have it? Request for
[10:22] support from the Ministère des
[10:23] Affaires municipales et de
[10:26] l'Habitation.
[10:27] >> So it's what's here? And
[10:28] what's the resolution?
[10:30] >> It will come after.
[10:32] >> But it's a question period,
[10:33] it's now.
[10:34] >> Yeah, like usual, as a usual
[10:36] meeting. We have a question
[10:38] period at the beginning of the
[10:39] meeting.
[10:40] >> I attend associated meetings
[10:42] every once in a while, usually
[10:44] there is context first. Then we
[10:48] can ask our questions, this is a
[10:50] bit odd.
[10:52] >> To the citizens don't have
[10:53] access to the resolution
[10:54] beforehand, before the meeting?
[10:56] Okay
[10:57] >> You can do that? Okay. Mayor
[11:00] Thomas, I support what you do,
[11:01] by the way, and my second
[11:03] question would be can you give
[11:04] us an example of what the
[11:07] minister would be able to do for
[11:09] us, an example of what you've
[11:11] lived through and what you might
[11:12] know what they might do for us
[11:13] in the city? Are we paying for
[11:16] this?
[11:17] >> Well, indirectly taxpayers
[11:19] pay for everything that's been
[11:20] done at a governmental level.
[11:22] >> So they go to charges for
[11:23] coming here?
[11:24] >> I don't know. Actually,
[11:25] that's a good question. Are we
[11:26] charge for it? No? Okay.
[11:29] >> Give us an example of what
[11:30] they might do.
[11:31] >> I don't know, I'm a first
[11:32] time mayor. I don't know what
[11:36] MAMH will do. One of the
[11:39] wording's intrigues me, the
[11:41] clause that intrigues me is that
[11:42] the municipal council asked the
[11:44] Ministry to identify the nature
[11:46] of the problems and propose an
[11:48] action plan to approve the
[11:50] general functioning of this city
[11:52] and offer the support of
[11:53] specialized services for its
[11:55] implementation. That, for me, is
[11:56] very broad. And the broadness of
[11:59] that makes me somewhat nervous.
[12:00] That sounds like more and then
[12:02] coming in and making us try to
[12:04] get along better. It sounds a
[12:06] little bit more serious than
[12:07] that. But I'm not professional
[12:08] nor a lawyer. But that clause
[12:11] itself seems to open our city up
[12:14] to governance at another level,
[12:16] and it concerns me. Excuse me,
[12:20] excuse me.
[12:22] - Madame, parlez-en anglais.
[12:26] C'est la langue de la question.
[12:28] On répond dans la langue de la
[12:29] question.
[12:30] - Je me demandais ce que je peux
[12:31] faire. Un exemple de ce qu'ils
[12:32] pourraient faire.
[12:33] - Excuse-moi, il n'y a pas de
[12:34] conversations. S'il vous plaît,
[12:36] continuez. Oui. Et c'est, on
[12:41] répond dans la langue de la
[12:45] personne qui pose la question.
[12:48] C'est normal, ça. C'est correct.
[12:50] Oui, Madame.
[12:51] - Vous avez dit qu'il va y avoir
[12:53] une résolution. C'est qui qui
[12:54] fait la résolution?
[12:56] - Bonne question. Pas moi.
[12:58] (rires)
[12:59] - Mais qui a fait tout ça?
[13:01] - C'est une bonne question.
[13:02] - Qui a mis la roue en marche
[13:03] pour ça?
[13:05] - On se demande qui a mis en
[13:07] marche la résolution. Aussi un
[13:09] mélange de personnes?
[13:10] - À 20 séances du conseil, il y
[13:11] a des projets de résolutions qui
[13:13] sont soumis au conseil. Le soir
[13:14] de la séance, c'est là où la
[13:16] résolution est adoptée. Nous, on
[13:18] fait un procès-verbal après. Une
[13:20] résolution, c'est une partie
[13:21] d'un procès-verbal. Le document,
[13:24] c'est un procès-verbal. La
[13:25] résolution comme telle, on a
[13:27] préparé un projet avant la
[13:28] séance. Ça se fait à travers les
[13:30] services. C'est le greffe qui
[13:32] finalise la résolution et c'est
[13:33] le greffe qui fait l'ordre du
[13:35] jour que vous avez entre les
[13:36] mains.
[13:38] - Depuis cette administration,
[13:40] j'ai vécu une autre fois où il y
[13:41] a une résolution, c'était le 9
[13:44] janvier de mai 23, c'était
[13:45] quatre membres du conseil qui
[13:46] ont fait la résolution. Là, je
[13:48] vais savoir il y a combien de
[13:49] membres du conseil qui ont fait
[13:50] la résolution?
[13:51] - Les membres du conseil peuvent
[13:53] proposer une résolution le soir
[13:54] même de la séance. Ça peut
[13:56] arriver. C'est tout à fait
[13:58] logique de le faire aussi. Nous,
[13:59] on prépare on avance, parce que
[14:01] la plupart des villes au Québec
[14:03] travaillent en avance pour
[14:05] proposer aux membres du conseil
[14:06] un texte. On a l'idée générale
[14:09] et l'administration rédige. Mais
[14:11] le conseil lui-même peut arriver
[14:13] le soir de la séance et déposé
[14:14] une résolution. Un des membres
[14:17] du conseil peut le faire de
[14:19] façon à sa propre initiative.
[14:20] - Là, je retourne à ma question
[14:22] originale. C'était qui qui a
[14:23] proposé la résolution? Quel
[14:26] membre du conseil?
[14:27] - Ce n'est pas un membre du
[14:28] conseil. En fait, le texte de la
[14:30] résolution a été préparée par
[14:32] l'administration, a été soumis
[14:33] aux membres du conseil pour
[14:34] qu'il l'approuve en prévision de
[14:35] la séance de ce soir.
[14:36] - Alors, c'est l'administration
[14:38] qui a décidé ça?
[14:40] - Oui, mais c'est ça que j'ai
[14:42] compris aussi.
[14:43] >> I'm going to be proposing it.
[14:44] - On n'a pas...
[14:45] - Les membres du conseil ont
[14:48] demandé... les membres du
[14:49] conseil étaient d'accord sur
[14:50] l'idée d'avoir cette
[14:51] résolution-là. Les membres du
[14:52] conseil ont demandé à
[14:54] l'administration de préparer un
[14:55] texte. Nous avons, Madame
[14:58] Verdon, préparer un texte de
[14:59] résolution qui a été soumis aux
[15:01] membres du conseil. C'est ça
[15:02] qu'ils ont ce soir pour prendre
[15:04] une décision, un texte qui a été
[15:06] préparée à l'avance par
[15:08] l'administration à leurs
[15:09] demandes.
[15:13] - Martin m'a, est-ce que vous
[15:14] faites partie du groupe du
[15:15] conseil qui a demandé ça?
[15:16] - Non. Non, merci. Nikki
[15:22] formula?
[15:26] [Silence]
[15:29] >> I am an educated woman, but
[15:31] I'm confused.
[15:32] >> Put the microphone up.
[15:37] >> People were phoning, we
[15:40] talked amongst each other. We
[15:43] knew nothing about this. And now
[15:46] you are explaining it a little
[15:47] bit as we ask questions. I will
[15:50] support what Line Conway said,
[15:53] it would be nice to be told what
[15:54] the resolution is, see what the
[15:56] comments are, see where your
[15:58] head is, and then we can ask
[16:00] intelligent questions. Now, we
[16:03] look like chickens with our
[16:04] heads cut off, running around
[16:06] and pretending to ask
[16:07] intelligent questions. Am I
[16:11] wrong?
[16:13] >> Okay guys, okay.
[16:15] >> So my question is why is a
[16:17] resolution not introduced to us,
[16:20] then we do the question period?
[16:22] Mister Mayor, you just said,
[16:24] well, that's the way the agenda
[16:25] is. Whose bright light was it
[16:28] who made the agenda this way?
[16:31] >> Is that your question?
[16:32] >> We don't know, we were not
[16:34] informed about what this is all
[16:35] about, and we are supposed to
[16:37] sit here and just swallow it
[16:38] again? We are getting snowed
[16:41] again? Sorry, I'm going to try
[16:42] to calm down, because I get a
[16:45] little upset over this. So my
[16:47] question, you said there would
[16:49] be no costs if someone comes in
[16:51] to help us.
[16:52] >> Apparently.
[16:54] >> But is this a fact or is this
[16:56] something we will see and then
[16:58] all of a sudden, well, our taxes
[17:00] might go up because somebody
[17:01] came in, and now we are in
[17:03] receivership and whatever else
[17:04] is going to happen, and we don't
[17:06] know about it?
[17:10] - Madame Verdon.
[17:13] >> You are sure there will be no
[17:15] cost about this, if somebody
[17:16] comes into help?
[17:18] >> For -- the will be no cost,
[17:19] and it's something the minister
[17:20] of our City will request, that
[17:21] kind of support.
[17:22] - Comment le ministère des
[17:23] Affaires municipales, non.
[17:27] >> Okay, thank you, that will
[17:28] make one. So if I understand
[17:31] correctly, correct me,
[17:33] councillors asked the admin for
[17:34] this resolution. Did I hear
[17:37] correctly?
[17:38] >> Yes.
[17:41] >> Yes, okay.
[17:44] >> --
[17:47] >> So if I may ask another
[17:49] question, can we hear about the
[17:50] resolution and then we can ask
[17:52] questions after?
[17:53] >> Unfortunately, it doesn't
[17:55] sound like we can. Can we do
[17:58] that? Can we get them to --
[18:02] C'est trop tard. The bylaw says
[18:06] no.
[18:07] >> The bylaw says no! Okay. Can
[18:11] somebody -- I just want to --
[18:14] >> Mr. El Dabee, could you
[18:15] excuse me, can we stop the
[18:18] conversation in the audience and
[18:19] know this, let Miss Fortier ask
[18:22] her last question.
[18:24] >> Can the bylaw be explain to
[18:26] me why this goes in this order
[18:27] and not reverse so we can ask
[18:29] intelligent questions after?
[18:30] >> I did not make, and so I can
[18:32] answer that question. I could
[18:34] ask Madam Thibault, can you ask
[18:37] why it is in such a format,
[18:39] where Madame Verdun?
[18:44] >> Yes, as a chair, you can ask
[18:46] to make the proposal to change
[18:48] the agenda. But we have already
[18:50] approved the agenda, so in order
[18:52] to change the question period,
[18:53] you would need to add the
[18:54] propositions to change the
[18:57] agenda, and make the question
[18:58] period before. But we made the
[19:00] agenda the same way we always
[19:01] make it.
[19:02] >> We've always made the agenda
[19:03] this way, absolutely. But there
[19:06] is a way to change that? That's
[19:08] very interesting.
[19:09] >> We adopt the agenda as is,
[19:11] but if you want to change it,
[19:12] you can adopt a resolution to
[19:14] change it.
[19:15] >> For the moment, but the
[19:17] resolution, what the citizen,
[19:19] from what I'm understanding
[19:20] here, they are asking to have
[19:22] heard and read and understood
[19:23] the resolution prior to --
[19:26] >> My understanding is they want
[19:28] to have the question period at
[19:29] the end of the meeting.
[19:31] >> We could, that's another way
[19:32] of getting around it. Do we want
[19:33] to have the question period at
[19:34] the end of the meeting? Do I
[19:36] have a mover? Do I have a mover?
[19:40] [Inaudible]
[19:42] >> Okay. So -- can we not change
[19:53] --
[19:54] >> I can add --
[19:55] >> The can we not have a mover
[19:56] to change to have question
[19:58] period at the end of the
[19:59] meeting? Can we not do that? Is
[20:00] that against for? Can I have a
[20:02] mover to put the question period
[20:04] at the end of the meeting?
[20:05] >> Sorry, Mister Mayor. As the
[20:07] lady right? Will you pass the
[20:09] resolution and then there is
[20:11] nothing we can say about it and
[20:12] just ask questions and support
[20:14] it?
[20:15] >> I'm not sure, Nikki.
[20:16] >> Or negate it?
[20:17] >> I'm not sure. I believe --
[20:20] I'm trying now to see if we can
[20:21] do that.
[20:22] >> I just want to be clear that
[20:23] we all understand.
[20:25] >> Absolutely.
[20:28] >> I think will be more clear as
[20:30] you hear resolutions tonight,
[20:32] and I highly suggest it would be
[20:33] more productive for any of you
[20:35] to reach out to the Councillor
[20:36] of your district, go for a
[20:38] coffee, have a one-on-one, and
[20:39] hear exactly why we did this.
[20:41] Because here having everyone
[20:43] scream at us when you don't know
[20:44] what we are trying to propose is
[20:46] not very useful either.
[20:47] >> No, then tell us, tell us. So
[20:51] give us permission after you do
[20:53] the resolution before you vote
[20:54] on it for us to comment on it.
[20:56] >> Let's have coffee, I will
[20:57] gladly meet with you.
[20:58] >> No, no, no, no, no. Mister
[21:01] Mayor, can you speak about the
[21:04] resolution, not vote on it, put
[21:05] a question period for us to ask
[21:07] the questions, and then you can
[21:09] vote on it?
[21:10] >> I would like to move that.
[21:13] I'm not sure if I can.
[21:15] Procedurally, can I move to have
[21:16] the question period occur after
[21:20] --
[21:21] >> Before the vote!
[21:24] >> After an explanation of what
[21:27] they are voting on, because can
[21:32] we make -- can you give them
[21:34] enough information that they can
[21:35] ask questions pertaining to what
[21:37] is occurring here in this
[21:39] meeting, which is the
[21:40] resolution? They want to speak
[21:42] -- they want to question the
[21:44] resolution, but they don't know
[21:45] it. So for me, is there any way
[21:47] procedurally we can circumvent
[21:48] this issue? Is there any way
[21:50] procedurally we can circumvent
[21:51] this issue?
[21:54] >> If everybody wants, I can
[21:56] read the resolution before. Do
[22:00] you want the council, that I
[22:03] read all of the resolutions, so
[22:05] everyone will understand the
[22:07] resolution and have their
[22:08] comments after?
[22:10] >> Is that okay? Okay, let's
[22:12] hear the resolution.
[22:14] >> I will read it in French and
[22:15] English after. Oui
[22:17] - Considérant que l'objectif des
[22:18] membres du conseil municipal de
[22:20] Pointe-Claire et de gouverner la
[22:22] ville...
[22:24] - Non, non.
[22:28] >> This is why we are doing
[22:29] this. - Considérant que
[22:30] l'objectif des membres du
[22:31] conseil municipal de
[22:32] Pointe-Claire et de gouverner la
[22:33] ville dans les meilleurs
[22:34] intérêts des citoyens et
[22:35] citoyennes de Pointe-Claire.
[22:37] Considérant qu'il devient
[22:38] difficile de faire avancer le
[22:40] projet de la ville lorsque le
[22:41] climat est tendu. Considérant
[22:42] qu'un fonctionnement optimal des
[22:44] instances démocratiques repose
[22:45] notamment sur le respect du rôle
[22:47] de chaque personne. Considérant
[22:49] que le conseil souhaite que le
[22:52] règlement PC 27, 12 de
[22:55] Pointe-Claire soient respectés.
[22:56] Concernant l'attitude du
[22:57] personnel face à leurs
[22:58] dynamiques présentes au conseil
[22:59] municipal. Considérant que le
[23:00] climat de travail parfois
[23:01] difficile à la Ville ne peut
[23:02] être attribuable à une seule
[23:03] personne ou un groupe d'élus,
[23:05] mais qu'il s'agit plutôt d'une
[23:06] responsabilité collective. Il
[23:08] est proposé par et appuyées de
[23:10] demander au ministère des
[23:11] Affaires municipales et de
[23:13] l'habitation d'accompagner, via
[23:14] son cadre d'intervention en
[23:16] matière d'avis de soutien aux
[23:17] municipalités en gestion
[23:18] municipale, la ville dans la
[23:20] recherche de solutions à cette
[23:21] situation complexe. Que le
[23:23] conseil municipal demande au
[23:24] ministère d'identifier la nature
[23:25] des problématiques et proposer
[23:27] un plan d'action pour améliorer
[23:28] le fonctionnement général de la
[23:29] ville et offrir le soutien du
[23:31] service spécialisé pour
[23:32] l'implantation de celui-ci,
[23:34] d'autoriser la directrice
[23:35] générale et, en son absence, le
[23:36] directeur général adjoint, à
[23:37] signer pour et au nom de la
[23:38] Ville de Pointe-Claire tous
[23:40] documents utiles et nécessaires
[23:41] afin de donner plein effet à la
[23:43] résolution... présente
[23:44] résolution.
[23:45] - Madame Verdon. Without meeting
[23:48] to be rude, could you prop slow
[23:50] down a little in the
[23:51] presentation side, so that they
[23:52] can understand?
[23:53] >> She's about to do it in
[23:54] English.
[23:55] >> Just that was very quick, and
[23:56] I found, that I was trying to
[23:57] understand it, it was going a
[23:58] little quick. -- The objective
[24:04] of the members of the
[24:05] Pointe-Claire City Council is to
[24:07] govern it in the best interest
[24:08] of the -- concern is becoming
[24:11] difficult to advance the city
[24:12] project when the climate is
[24:14] tense, concerned that the
[24:15] optimal functioning of the
[24:16] democratic body depends on
[24:18] respect of the role of each
[24:20] individual, concerns that the
[24:22] Council wishes to point call
[24:25] bylaw P C 20 7:12 respected,
[24:28] concerning the staff's --
[24:29] current dynamic at City Council,
[24:31] Councillor that the City --
[24:34] difficult work climate cannot be
[24:36] attributed to a single interval,
[24:37] group, for official, but as
[24:39] rather a collective
[24:40] responsibility, is proposed by
[24:42] us again to recognize the --
[24:46] within the framework of the
[24:48] interpretation for assistance
[24:49] and supporting municipalities
[24:51] and municipal management, assist
[24:53] the city and finding solutions
[24:55] that is to this complex
[24:57] situation, that the municipal
[24:58] council has the Ministry to
[25:00] advance the nature of the
[25:02] parliament and propose an action
[25:03] plan to improve the general
[25:04] functioning of the city and
[25:06] offer the support of -- services
[25:08] for implementation, to authorize
[25:10] the city manager in her absence,
[25:12] the assistant city manager, to
[25:14] sign in the name of the city of
[25:16] Pointe-Claire all documents
[25:17] necessary to give full effect to
[25:19] the present resolution.
[25:23] >> Okay, so Madam Fournier,
[25:29] would you like one last question
[25:30] now that you've heard that, or
[25:33] -- no, apparently that is not
[25:35] going to happen. It is all going
[25:36] to get answered. Everybody is
[25:39] going to have something to
[25:41] prepare, prepared speech when we
[25:43] get to the vote. No, you can't
[25:48] answer -- you have to ask to ask
[25:50] a question. If people have
[25:52] subsequent questions, who do
[25:53] they speak to if they want to
[25:54] get on the list?
[25:57] >> Just say their name, and I
[25:58] will take it down.
[25:59] >> Okay, do they speak to you,
[26:02] Madam Gutierrez? But if there
[26:04] are others who want to get on
[26:05] the list, how do they do so?
[26:09] >> -- And there's no one else
[26:11] who signed up.
[26:12] [Inaudible]
[26:16] --
[26:17] >> Are there -- okay.
[26:18] [Inaudible]
[26:22] French and English what is being
[26:24] tossed out by now so that -- you
[26:32] really can't do this.
[26:35] >> That was my question, how
[26:38] come the resolution was not
[26:39] available to us when we came in?
[26:41] >> Excuse me, sir. Excuse me.
[26:44] >> Is there a possibility --
[26:45] >> Excuse me, sir.
[26:47] >> Madame Verdun, is there a
[26:50] possibility that the resolution
[26:52] is copied and distributed so we
[26:54] can look at it as people talk
[26:57] and make notes for ourselves,
[26:59] like we normally have a
[27:01] document, is that possible that
[27:02] we have it duplicated now
[27:04] somewhere, the facilities are
[27:06] here and then the latest that we
[27:09] have it in our hands, is that
[27:14] possible?
[27:18] >> I can remember a student
[27:19] meeting, and I'm new to the
[27:20] process, but actually member we
[27:21] did, somebody actually has to
[27:23] have it in two languages and we
[27:24] did start to produce something
[27:26] in two languages.
[27:27] >> This was a bylaw, not a
[27:29] project of revolution. Because
[27:30] this is not official, because
[27:31] you have to vote on before. So.
[27:40] So we don't have it in our hot
[27:41] little hands, that was my
[27:44] question. Okay, well, there are
[27:47] a lot of things that was, said
[27:48] and I don't know we should ask
[27:50] questions, now or I should let
[27:51] you speak. I'm lost. Please
[27:53] guide, me because we have a lot
[27:54] of comments, but I'm not sure I
[27:56] should make them before you
[27:57] talk, because --
[27:59] >> Well, you won't have another
[28:00] chance to speak.
[28:01] >> When we have a chance again?
[28:02] >> Do they have a chance to
[28:04] speak? --
[28:07] >> Not the vote.
[28:08] >> Mister Mayor, you are the
[28:09] chair.
[28:10] >> I'm asking, procedurally.
[28:11] >> Yeah, if you want to make
[28:13] some change, yeah, to propose to
[28:15] your -- minister of Council.
[28:16] >> So I propose, and I try to do
[28:18] this earlier, that we allowed to
[28:20] have a question period after.
[28:23] >> Before the vote.
[28:24] >> Before the vote.
[28:26] >> After the councillors have
[28:27] spoken.
[28:28] >> No, not before the vote.
[28:29] After the vote, yes. But not
[28:31] before the vote.
[28:33] >> Well, you just tell me
[28:34] before, why don't I go sit with
[28:35] my councillor and talk about it?
[28:38] What's the difference of all of
[28:39] us talking about it with all of
[28:41] you now? For clarity, all we are
[28:44] looking for, correct me if I'm
[28:46] wrong, is clarity, that's all.
[28:48] >> I understand.
[28:49] >> This is very confusing, and
[28:51] it looks like, again, it's a
[28:53] muddy situation, we are just
[28:55] going to get snowed and whatever
[28:56] comes in. I'm not saying it's --
[28:59] >> Madam Fournier, people will
[29:01] present their point of view,
[29:03] subsequently, after the fact,
[29:04] and we get to the issue, and you
[29:05] will hear everybody's stance.
[29:07] And you will hear what everybody
[29:08] has to say. And you can ask the
[29:11] next council meeting, you can
[29:12] come up and speak to it, if you
[29:13] like.
[29:14] >> But by then, it will be
[29:15] voted, and the people might be
[29:16] here, correct? Okay, thank you.
[29:21] Linda Dumas? Pass, okay..
[29:31] It's a case, or you've had your
[29:33] -- mister El Dabee, you've had
[29:34] your question. Can Mr. El Dabee
[29:38] have a subsequent question?
[29:42] >> Mrs. Weaver wanted to ask a
[29:44] question also.
[29:54] >> I am terribly disappointed in
[29:58] what I guess should be a
[30:00] democratic process. What are we?
[30:03] 40,000 people? I was called last
[30:05] night because there is a special
[30:08] meeting. I did get something
[30:11] from -- that said it was a
[30:13] special meeting, not knowing
[30:16] what this is about. Yes, Madam
[30:22] veteran, wonderful, but none of
[30:24] us, even though my hearing is --
[30:27] >> Madame Dumas, can you speak
[30:31] into the microphone?
[30:32] >> We need those papers if you
[30:33] want a, as intelligent
[30:39] processing members of the
[30:40] community to be with you, we
[30:43] vote, we voted for a mayor and
[30:45] councillors, so a year and a
[30:47] half ago, another year and a
[30:49] half. I may have it all wrong
[30:53] that, well, we do know it's not
[30:57] hidden, it's not under the
[30:59] table, it's not a secret. The
[31:02] loading that goes on here, the
[31:05] wish that Mayor Thomas never was
[31:09] elected. Mister Bissonnette,
[31:13] 2006, you were here, I spent all
[31:16] day going through bylaws, 2006,
[31:19] et cetera. Anyway, it appears to
[31:23] be such shambles. We, as
[31:27] constituents, just down to have
[31:29] a chance to be a part of the
[31:33] democratic process. What you've
[31:36] read in French and English was
[31:37] not a very long. It could have
[31:39] been photocopy'd, or photocopy'd
[31:43] before -- at some point, so we
[31:46] could read it. It seems to be
[31:49] tremendously hopeless, and,
[31:52] Kelly, we have nothing to say to
[31:53] one another, unfortunately.
[31:56] >> I live across the street for
[31:57] me, we could have a coffee
[31:59] anytime, honestly. You don't
[32:01] want to talk to me, but you want
[32:02] to be informed. No problem.
[32:04] >> Excuse me, Madame Dumas --
[32:08] >> A five-year change.
[32:10] >> Okay. Okay, now, you can ask
[32:19] --
[32:20] (inaudible)
[32:21] >> After Mrs. Weaver, sorry.
[32:23] >> After hearing the resolution,
[32:24] I think it's reasonable enough
[32:27] that no one is mentioned here.
[32:30] It's best to try to get along as
[32:32] much as possible. I've gone to a
[32:34] lot of council meetings for
[32:36] almost, I guess, 14, 12, 14
[32:39] years, and I never agreed with
[32:41] everything. I will tell you that
[32:42] right now. I have walked out. In
[32:45] the end, it's not really about
[32:46] me, okay? It is about the city.
[32:49] Maybe we have to try to get
[32:51] along. Other places are --
[32:55] >> Okay. Did you have a
[32:57] question, Miss Weaver?
[33:01] (inaudible)
[33:02] Can Mr. Aldo be have another
[33:05] question?
[33:06] >> After, if we have time.
[33:13] >> Good evening, everybody,
[33:15] Mister Mayor, council members,
[33:17] fellow citizens. I am happy to
[33:19] have the opportunity to be at
[33:21] the special meeting tonight.
[33:22] Thank you, Madam Verdon, for
[33:25] taking the time to read, it for
[33:27] everybody in English and in
[33:28] French in this tense climate. My
[33:30] question would be, have we ever
[33:33] seen this request come forth for
[33:36] our intervention to improve the
[33:37] status of the functioning of our
[33:40] council members with the mayor,
[33:41] and if we have, have we seen
[33:44] good results from this?
[33:48] >> Are you being specific to
[33:50] Pointe-Claire --
[33:51] >> Pointe-Claire or --
[33:53] >> I don't know, has this ever
[33:54] been done before in
[33:57] Pointe-Claire? No?
[33:59] >> Not that I --
[34:00] >> This has never been done
[34:01] before in Pointe-Claire.
[34:02] >> Okay. Do we have information
[34:04] in terms of the company, how it
[34:07] works, if it's been done
[34:08] previously outside of
[34:09] Pointe-Claire?
[34:10] >> It is a provincial
[34:12] government. It's been done
[34:14] before for sure. There are lots
[34:16] of examples of what they've done
[34:20] in the past -- good question, I
[34:24] don't know the results of the
[34:25] success, I don't know if anyone
[34:27] has ever tabulated the success
[34:29] rates. It's a very interesting
[34:32] statistic. I'd like to see it if
[34:34] somebody had --
[34:35] >> We've all seen, we are new to
[34:38] Pointe-Claire, attending
[34:39] meetings and we are grateful to
[34:40] have the opportunity to be here.
[34:42] We have seen, unfortunately,
[34:45] some of the happenstance, how
[34:47] things are going. For me, I'd be
[34:49] hopeful that if this is a move
[34:51] from council members, we would
[34:53] see the fruits of this effort
[34:56] when we continue to come to
[34:57] meetings that we can have good
[34:59] meetings, and fruitful meetings.
[35:01] >> So, your concern is with the
[35:03] meetings and not the operation
[35:04] of the city?
[35:06] >> It kind of -- if this is how
[35:08] we are functioning in meetings
[35:10] where, us, as citizens, are
[35:12] participating, how can we expect
[35:13] it's better behind the scenes?
[35:15] >> Because it is. It absolutely
[35:17] is.
[35:18] >> We are not there.
[35:19] >> You don't know otherwise
[35:20] either.
[35:21] >> I don't, but --
[35:22] >> But I do. I will tell you
[35:23] right now, the city is actually
[35:24] the people who come in and work
[35:26] for the City, they do it with
[35:28] goodwill, enjoy their jobs, for
[35:30] the most part, and enjoy what
[35:31] they do, and they do them well.
[35:33] I see it every day. From one of
[35:36] my biggest -- one of the things
[35:37] I am most perplexed about this
[35:39] process, there is some
[35:43] uncertainty about that. If you
[35:45] look at how the City operates,
[35:47] the staff, directors, everybody,
[35:50] top to bottom, this city runs
[35:52] like a good machine. It is not
[35:53] in disarray. It is a good
[35:55] machine, it runs very well. I
[35:56] see it on a daily basis. We are
[35:58] not in a crisis moment. What you
[36:01] see at the political level is
[36:03] more symbolic and representative
[36:05] of the entire city, that is for
[36:07] sure. I see it on a daily basis.
[36:09] I see more of it than anybody
[36:11] else.
[36:12] >> Okay, thank you very much.
[36:14] For us, it's hard to know
[36:15] because we are not a part of
[36:16] that. Thank you so much.
[36:17] >> Okay. Can Mr. El Dabee have
[36:23] his final question? For Mr. El
[36:25] Dabee, a question.
[36:26] >> Yes.
[36:27] >> Okay.
[36:30] >> Everybody is confused about
[36:32] the resolution. Can we make that
[36:39] meeting, next meeting, with the
[36:41] resolution written so everybody
[36:42] can know what is going on before
[36:44] we start the meeting? As usual?
[36:46] >> I think we can do that. Can
[36:48] we not have this resolution
[36:49] prepared for next meeting?
[36:50] >> This specific resolution?
[36:53] Yes, of course.
[36:54] >> Before voting, before
[36:55] anything --
[36:56] >> Not before we are voting, we
[36:57] having the vote, Mr. El Dabee.
[36:59] You can get a copy for next
[37:00] meeting.
[37:01] >> No, we want to know before we
[37:03] start voting so --
[37:04] >> No.
[37:05] >> That is what everybody wants.
[37:06] >> I know that. I feel badly --
[37:08] >> The city, we elect you to get
[37:11] the information --
[37:12] >> I have asked, Mister El
[37:14] Dabee, I have asked for that.
[37:16] Apparently we can't do. That I
[37:17] have already asked.
[37:18] >> The citizens --
[37:19] >> Mr. El Dabee, I have asked
[37:21] and that is not going to happen.
[37:24] Thank you --
[37:25] >> So --
[37:26] >> Thank you.
[37:27] >> So --
[37:28] >> Thank you, Mister El Dabee.
[37:29] >> One second --
[37:30] >> Mr. -- mister El Dabee.
[37:34] >> Yes? What are the rules?
[37:41] There are subsequent questions
[37:43] allowed, or they're not? In
[37:44] question period?
[37:45] >> You chair the meeting, you
[37:48] have the right to accept.
[37:49] >> One more, Miss Conway.
[37:52] >> I would like to know what
[37:54] could the mechanism be in place
[37:57] to, and this process, to --
[38:01] >> One, how, who decides when
[38:04] this stops, and how long might
[38:06] it last, and what is the
[38:08] decision about when it stops?
[38:09] Who decides that? What is the
[38:11] process for that?
[38:12] >> What is the process? Madame
[38:14] Verdon?
[38:15] >> The Ministry that will decide
[38:16] the process. They will decide
[38:20] when it stops.
[38:21] >> How long, normally, does
[38:24] MAMH, do they stay in the city,
[38:26] how long do they conduct their
[38:29] operations? I'm curious to know.
[38:30] I think it's a good question.
[38:32] >> It will depend on the planet
[38:34] will do, so I can't answer that
[38:36] question now.
[38:37] >> Okay.
[38:38] >> Could be a question of weeks,
[38:41] months? Hopefully not years. It
[38:45] has been done elsewhere before.
[38:48] >> Only a year and a half left,
[38:50] and it hopefully won't be years.
[38:55] >> What does that joke? I don't
[38:57] appreciate the joke --
[38:58] >> There's only a year and a
[38:59] half left, so hopefully we can
[39:01] resolve this much before that
[39:02] time. Essentially, all that
[39:05] Council is asking for is to have
[39:07] the help that is being offered
[39:08] by the minister who oversees
[39:11] municipal affairs to give us
[39:13] tools and to come in, assess the
[39:15] issues, and help us work
[39:17] together towards resolving
[39:19] issues. What happens is, things
[39:21] get bogged down, things don't
[39:23] advance as quickly, necessarily,
[39:25] as they could. In public
[39:28] meetings, as you have seen,
[39:29] things can go awry quite easily,
[39:31] et cetera. All this resolution
[39:34] is saying is that there is a
[39:37] tense climate, there have been
[39:38] issues, we have taken multiple
[39:40] steps to try to resolve these
[39:42] issues throughout the term. That
[39:44] hasn't worked. This help is
[39:46] offered by the Ministry, so we
[39:47] are requesting they come in and
[39:49] offer us the help. We don't know
[39:51] what they are going to do
[39:52] because they have to come in and
[39:54] observe, assess the situation,
[39:55] and then they will decide what
[39:59] tools, what mechanisms, et
[40:00] cetera, need to be put in place.
[40:03] It will help us move forward in
[40:05] the best way possible. There
[40:09] isn't much to the resolution in
[40:10] and of itself, it basically just
[40:13] says we are not functioning at
[40:15] our optimal, and we would like
[40:18] help from the minister, and
[40:19] outside sources, to give us the
[40:21] tool so we can function in a
[40:23] better way for the rest of the
[40:24] term.
[40:25] >> Thank you.
[40:26] >> Miss Conway?
[40:27] >> Thank you for articulating
[40:29] that.
[40:30] >> If I can just, I will read
[40:31] you a clause of the resolution.
[40:33] The municipal council asked the
[40:35] Ministry to identify the nature
[40:37] of the problems that propose an
[40:38] action plan to improve the
[40:40] general functioning of the city,
[40:42] and offer the support of
[40:44] specialized services for its
[40:46] implementation. So, take that as
[40:48] you wish. That, for me, allows
[40:50] an awful lot of latitude, in my
[40:52] opinion, which could be good and
[40:55] could be bad. It does offer an
[40:57] awful lot of latitude.
[40:58] >> Tara, to continue on that
[41:00] line of thought, in your vision,
[41:02] by the question of weeks, a few
[41:05] months?
[41:07] >> I can't really answer that
[41:08] because I am not in that
[41:10] position at the Ministry. I
[41:12] don't know what their process
[41:14] is. We know that we can ask for
[41:16] help. That is what we've done.
[41:18] We don't know the decisions they
[41:20] will make, or the things they
[41:23] will recommend. I don't even
[41:25] know if they will answer us
[41:27] within two, three weeks. I don't
[41:29] know, we don't know any of that.
[41:31] I would have to pass the
[41:32] resolution so we can make the
[41:35] request.
[41:36] >> Maybe it will be a good thing
[41:37] after all if they can follow our
[41:43] bylaws, and one developers get
[41:45] permits, they will be forced to
[41:47] follow the bylaws. That could be
[41:48] a good thing. Thank you.
[41:50] >> Okay.
[41:53] >> Louise boomer was next on the
[41:55] list.
[41:56] >> Thank you.
[42:02] >> I'm going to make this short
[42:03] and sweet. Obviously, all been
[42:06] want is transparency, which has
[42:09] not been here for this so-called
[42:12] or solution. You are going to
[42:14] pass a resolution, and then you
[42:16] are asking us, afterwards, do
[42:18] you have questions. It's been
[42:21] obvious there's been a lot of
[42:24] dysfunction, with this council.
[42:27] Please, can you respect each
[42:28] other and us and work together,
[42:30] and not giving up on each other?
[42:34] That is all I ask, transparency,
[42:37] please. Really, this is
[42:40] nonsense. Thank you.
[42:42] >> Albert?
[42:53] >> I have a question on -- thank
[42:57] you. A question on the process
[43:00] if this resolution is passed and
[43:02] you get the assistance of the
[43:05] Ministry, does the Ministry
[43:07] you've been describing give you,
[43:09] coaching new to work better
[43:12] together and some sort of
[43:13] counselling that you are
[43:15] getting, do they have the
[43:17] authority to impose structures
[43:19] on you after, as part of their
[43:23] report?
[43:24] >> They do.
[43:25] >> They do?
[43:26] >> Yes.
[43:27] >> Okay, so you are going to
[43:29] push all the money out and make
[43:31] the bed.
[43:32] >> I am not pushing that money
[43:34] out. Councillor Stork?
[43:36] >> I think the proper reply is
[43:39] we don't know exactly what
[43:40] they're going to. Do they will
[43:41] come and look, assess the
[43:44] situation, and I'm hoping, or
[43:48] understanding that they will
[43:49] probably speak to people. They
[43:50] might decide to speak to
[43:51] citizens. I don't know. There is
[43:53] a full spectrum of what might
[43:55] happen. They might come in, say
[43:57] it's not bad, you just have to
[43:58] learn to get a longer bit
[44:00] better. You have a job to do.
[44:02] You know, and leave. They might
[44:03] come back and say there is a
[44:05] serious problem, and worst-case
[44:07] an area is a trusteeship, which
[44:09] I don't think will happen. We
[44:11] don't know. We are --
[44:14] >> Councillor Stork, Councillor
[44:17] Stainforth, would you like to
[44:18] speak? Part of the issue is the
[44:22] proper procedures should be
[44:23] followed, and people should not
[44:25] intervene. There is a chair, and
[44:27] in order to keep the quorum in a
[44:29] meeting, and prevent debates at
[44:32] Council, we have an order of
[44:34] people speaking.
[44:35] >> Yes, Councillor Stainforth?
[44:38] >> Thank you, Mister Mayor.
[44:40] Sorry, Eric. The body that will
[44:44] come in cannot put us into
[44:47] trusteeship. They will
[44:48] recommend, if they think that it
[44:50] is very bad, then it goes, it's
[44:53] recommended to a different body
[44:55] at which point other steps are
[44:57] taken.
[44:58] >> Basically a stage one
[45:00] intervention?
[45:01] >> This is a stage one
[45:02] intervention.
[45:03] >> Thank you very much.
[45:04] >> And, Mr. Eskenazi, if I could
[45:07] add to that, my comment on
[45:09] Councillor Stork's response, if
[45:10] you don't know what they are
[45:12] going to do, why are we giving
[45:13] it, and why are we putting the
[45:15] city at risk?
[45:17] >> That was my metaphor.
[45:22] >> Keith Kelly?
[45:32] >> Short and sweet, I'm a
[45:35] longtime citizen of
[45:36] Pointe-Claire, sat in many
[45:38] council meetings. We have a
[45:40] council group here today, many
[45:42] of them have been here for many
[45:44] years, and have done a great
[45:46] job. Pointe-Claire has moved
[45:48] along very, very well, there are
[45:50] stumbling blocks at times, but
[45:52] they get fixed. My last six
[45:56] months of meetings here are
[45:58] atrocious. There is a problem,
[46:00] and I am sure this group is
[46:04] coming in from Québec that will
[46:06] resolve it, hit the nail on the
[46:07] head, and will fix things up.
[46:10] That's it, thank you.
[46:11] >> Mr. Kelly, just to point
[46:13] something out, during the last
[46:17] mandate, prior to mine, during
[46:19] the last administration, I
[46:21] witnessed 500 people in a room
[46:23] in anger and irate, and I
[46:26] watched people get thrown out of
[46:28] Council on a regular basis. I
[46:30] watched a very upset community,
[46:32] which actually led, eventually,
[46:35] to a different election. The
[46:37] election resulted. I saw rancor
[46:39] and discord in the last
[46:42] administration that involved far
[46:44] more people, and far more people
[46:46] getting upset, particularly over
[46:48] the pioneer issue, where a
[46:50] roomful of 500 people were
[46:52] shocked and dismayed. Mr. Kelly,
[46:54] it is not for you to tell me
[46:56] want to stop speaking from the
[46:58] audience. So, just to put things
[47:01] in a comparative perspective, I
[47:04] remember, it because I was a
[47:05] citizen during that period, and
[47:06] that is why I run for office, so
[47:09] we did not have that kind of
[47:11] thing happening again. We
[47:12] haven't had that kind of thing
[47:13] happening again. You don't have
[47:14] 500 people in a room screaming,
[47:17] yelling, very upset at the
[47:18] outcomes. So, if you want to get
[47:21] comparative, we can take it a
[47:23] long way. You are welcome, Mr.
[47:24] Kelly. Thank you for the
[47:26] opportunity to answer that
[47:27] question. Are there --
[47:30] >> No more names.
[47:31] >> No more? Okay. So -- 6.1.
[47:39] - 6.1 Demande d'accompagnement
[47:40] du Ministère des Affaires
[47:41] municipales et de l'Habitation
[47:42] (MAMH)
[47:43] . 6.1, Request for support from
[47:44] the Ministère des Affaires
[47:45] municipales et de l'Habitation
[47:50] >> Should we read it over again?
[47:52] >> Want me to read --
[47:53] >> We can do it again
[47:54] >> You want me to read again?
[47:56] >> A little more slowly
[47:57] >> No problem.
[48:06] (---)
[48:07] Dans le meilleur intérêt des
[48:08] citoyens et citoyennes de
[48:09] Pointe-Claire. Considérant qu'il
[48:10] devient difficile de faire
[48:11] avancer le projet de la ville
[48:12] lorsque le climat est tendu.
[48:13] Considérant qu'un fonctionnement
[48:14] optimal des instances
[48:15] démocratiques repose notamment
[48:16] sur le respect du rôle de chaque
[48:18] personne. Considérant que le
[48:19] conseil souhaite que le
[48:22] règlement PC 27-12 de
[48:23] Pointe-Claire soit respectée.
[48:25] Considérant l'inquiétude du
[48:26] personnel face à la dynamique
[48:27] présente au conseil municipal.
[48:29] Considérant que le climat de
[48:30] travail parfois difficile à la
[48:31] Ville ne peut être attribuée à
[48:32] une seule personne ou un groupe
[48:34] d'élus, mais qu'il s'agit plutôt
[48:35] d'une responsabilité collective.
[48:36] Il est proposé par et appuyées
[48:38] de demander au ministère des
[48:39] Affaires municipales et de
[48:41] l'habitation d'accompagner, via
[48:42] son cadre d'intervention en
[48:43] matière d'aide et de soutien aux
[48:45] municipalités en gestion
[48:46] municipale, la ville dans la
[48:47] recherche de solutions à cette
[48:49] situation complexe. Que le
[48:50] conseil municipal demande au
[48:51] ministère d'identifier la nature
[48:52] des problématiques et proposent
[48:54] un plan d'action pour améliorer
[48:55] le fonctionnement général de la
[48:57] ville et offrir le service... le
[48:59] soutien de services spécialisés
[49:01] pour l'implantation de celle-ci,
[49:02] d'autoriser la directrice
[49:04] générale ou, en son absence, le
[49:05] directeur général adjoint à
[49:06] signer pour et au nom de la
[49:07] Ville de Pointe-Claire tous
[49:08] documents utiles et nécessaires
[49:10] à mettre en effet la présente
[49:12] résolution. Considering the
[49:15] objective of the members of the
[49:16] Pointe-Claire City Council is to
[49:18] govern the city in the best
[49:19] interest of the citizens of
[49:20] Pointe-Claire. It's become
[49:21] difficult to advance the city
[49:23] project on the -- considering
[49:26] the optimal functioning of the
[49:27] democratic bodies depends in
[49:29] particular on respect of the
[49:30] role of each individual,
[49:33] considering that the Council
[49:34] wishes to Pointe-Claire bylaw PC
[49:37] 27-12 respected, considering the
[49:39] staff concern about the current
[49:41] pandemic at the City Council,
[49:42] considering that the City --
[49:45] where it's climate cannot be
[49:46] attributed to a single
[49:48] individual, group of elected
[49:49] officials, but is rather a
[49:51] collective responsibility this
[49:54] proposed but -- to request the
[49:58] Ministère des Affaires
[49:59] municipales et de l'Habitation
[50:00] within the framework of the
[50:01] intervention for assistance and
[50:02] support in municipalities and
[50:04] municipal management assist the
[50:05] city in finding solutions of
[50:07] this complex situation, that the
[50:09] Municipal consign has ministry
[50:12] -- nature of the problem and
[50:13] propose an action plan to
[50:14] improve the general functioning
[50:16] of the city, and offer the
[50:18] support and special services
[50:19] with implementations to -- city
[50:23] manager in absence, assistant
[50:24] city managers to sign for in the
[50:26] name of the city of
[50:27] Pointe-Claire, all documents
[50:29] necessary to give full effect to
[50:31] the present resolution
[50:33] - Merci, Madame Verdon.
[50:34] >> Thank you very much for that.
[50:35] I appreciate it. Pour la
[50:38] raquette de support pour le
[50:39] ministre des Affaires
[50:40] municipales et de l'habitation,
[50:41] MAMH. For support Ministère des
[50:42] Affaires municipales et de
[50:43] l'Habitation, MAMH, do I have a
[50:44] mover?
[50:45] >> Yes, Kelly Thorstad-Cullen,
[50:46] district three.
[50:47] >> Seconder?
[50:49] >> Paul Bissonnette, district 2.
[50:50] >> Before proceeding, I think we
[50:51] should allow those who would
[50:52] like to speak to the resolution.
[50:56] We will start with Councillor
[50:59] Cowan from district 8 and work
[51:00] our way down.
[51:02] >> Thank you. The lady said you
[51:06] want transparency, you do, and
[51:08] we do, everybody wants
[51:10] transparency. You have said also
[51:13] that this is nonsense. It is
[51:16] nonsense. That is the whole
[51:17] point. We are trying to get
[51:19] through that. If you don't
[51:21] understand what's going on,
[51:23] there is a problem. We are all
[51:25] trying to find a solution to
[51:27] that problem. The solution that
[51:32] we, Council, is contemplating,
[51:33] the resolution before us right
[51:35] now to vote on, is to ask for
[51:38] help because we are unable to
[51:40] get to the answer ourselves. We
[51:42] are unable to provide you with
[51:44] transparency, provide you with
[51:45] the end to the nonsense. That is
[51:47] what we are reaching out to the
[51:48] Ministry to do, that is what
[51:51] that branch of the ministry is
[51:53] there for. You have seen in the
[51:55] news, this is not this kind of
[51:58] problem not unique to
[51:59] Pointe-Claire. It is endemic
[52:01] across the province, something
[52:03] like 700 and more city elected
[52:07] officials across the province
[52:08] who have resigned since the
[52:10] election of 2021 because of this
[52:11] kind of thing. If you want to be
[52:14] governed, we've got to be able
[52:16] to do this better. We are trying
[52:19] our best to do it better. We
[52:22] need help. That's what we've
[52:23] decided. That is the motion
[52:25] before us now. If decision --
[52:29] yes, the administration of the
[52:31] City is working very well,
[52:33] garbage is getting picked, up
[52:34] there are some complaints, snow
[52:36] gets removed, there are get
[52:38] complaints. The city works. It
[52:41] takes over. The big decisions
[52:43] aren't happening very well. The
[52:44] big decisions aren't happening
[52:46] well that filter down. If
[52:48] decision-making and
[52:49] implementation of those
[52:50] decisions were working well, you
[52:52] would see it reflected up here.
[52:54] What you see reflected here is
[52:56] reflecting something else in the
[52:58] administration. In the
[53:00] management of the whole city. I
[53:02] mean, you know this as an issue,
[53:04] we know it, and they know it. We
[53:07] have got to do better. For that
[53:09] reason, I'm going to be
[53:10] supporting this resolution.
[53:12] Thank you.
[53:15] >> Excuse me, if we could
[53:16] refrain from talking when the
[53:18] councillors are speaking.
[53:22] Councillor Cousineau?
[53:25] - Merci, Monsieur le Maire, de
[53:26] me donner la parole. Dans mes
[53:29] notes, je dis, sans prétendre
[53:32] savoir où connaître le résultat
[53:33] de cet exercice, je crois que
[53:36] c'est absolument nécessaire. Et
[53:39] ma responsabilité est de tenter
[53:41] d'ajuster le ton du déroulement
[53:43] des séances.
[53:47] >> An English. Without
[53:49] pretending to know the result of
[53:51] this exercise, I believe it is
[53:53] my responsibility to try to
[53:56] reinstate the tone of public
[53:58] meetings. Thank you.
[54:02] >> Councillor Stainforth?
[54:06] - Merci. Alors, j'ai choisi de
[54:08] soutenir cette résolution
[54:09] proposée par mes collègues pour
[54:11] de multiples raisons. Quiconque
[54:14] a suivi les réunions publiques
[54:15] du conseil a pu se faire une
[54:17] idée des problèmes plus profonds
[54:19] qui se pose. Ils ne seront pas
[54:22] surpris par cette résolution.
[54:24] Bien que différentes mesures
[54:26] aient été prises pour tenter
[54:27] d'améliorer le climat de
[54:28] travail, les problèmes
[54:30] persistent. Je me préoccupe
[54:31] avant tout du bien-être de notre
[54:34] personnel, de nos habitants, qui
[54:35] osent se présenter aux réunions
[54:38] publiques, mais je ne serais pas
[54:39] sincère si j'excluait la santé
[54:41] et bien-être des membres du
[54:43] conseil et de nos familles. Bien
[54:45] que je ne m'attends pas à ce que
[54:48] quelqu'un vienne tout régler
[54:49] d'un coup de baguette magique,
[54:51] j'espère qu'avec cette
[54:52] résolution, nous recevrons de
[54:54] l'aide pour garantir que les
[54:56] mécanismes soient mis en place
[54:57] et que des outils soient données
[54:59] pour aider tout le monde a aller
[55:01] de l'avant d'une manière plus
[55:03] positive et plus saine. In
[55:05] English, I have chosen to
[55:06] support this resolution proposed
[55:07] by my colleagues for multiple
[55:09] reasons this resolution will be
[55:10] no surprise to anyone who has
[55:12] watched public council meetings,
[55:13] and gleaned a shimmer of the
[55:15] deeper issues taking place.
[55:17] While different steps have been
[55:18] taken to try to improve the work
[55:20] climate, issues persist. I'm
[55:21] primarily concerned for the
[55:23] welfare of our staff as well as
[55:25] for those who present themselves
[55:27] at public meetings. I would not
[55:28] be truthful if I excluded the
[55:29] health and well-being of council
[55:31] members and our families. I do
[55:32] not expect someone to come in
[55:34] and way they want to fix
[55:35] everything, I hope this
[55:38] resolution, with this
[55:39] resolution, we will be provided
[55:40] with help to ensure mechanisms
[55:41] are put in place, and tools are
[55:44] given to help everyone move
[55:45] forward in a more positive and
[55:46] healthy way.
[55:49] >> Councillor Bissonnette?
[55:52] - Bonsoir. >> Good evening. I
[55:55] will be brief, I won't be too
[55:57] long. I have a couple of
[56:00] evenings. As an example, the
[56:02] public meeting, like every
[56:04] public meeting, is a very
[56:05] important meeting, the meeting
[56:07] where citizens find out about
[56:10] projects going on. These
[56:13] meetings that are being
[56:14] conducted since I've been in
[56:16] this term, fairly repeatedly,
[56:19] are badly managed, bottom line.
[56:22] Tonight is a difficult example.
[56:24] What I'm getting at, you will
[56:26] see I'm going to cover a couple
[56:27] of articles here. There is a
[56:30] bylaw, and it's mentioned here
[56:32] very clearly, 20 7:12,
[56:35] considering the majority of
[56:37] Council wishes to see
[56:39] Pointe-Claire bylaw respected,
[56:42] okay? That, you are talking
[56:46] transparency, it is not working
[56:49] together, that bylaw is not
[56:50] being respected. It's not a
[56:53] free-for-all. So, what I want to
[56:55] refer to that, it's the public
[56:58] question, the bylaw has several
[57:00] items, but one of them is the
[57:01] public question, which is
[57:03] article number six. That one
[57:05] says, it pertains to the
[57:09] frequent failure of the chairman
[57:10] to enforce the bylaw. He may
[57:13] have his reasons for it, but
[57:14] there is a bylaw, and the bylaw
[57:16] is supposed to be followed. Le
[57:20] président, comme j'ai dit, les
[57:22] président de l'assemblée doivent
[57:23] faire respecter les règlements
[57:25] qui sont en vigueur. Ce n'est
[57:27] pas une question de
[57:31] (---)
[57:32] un peu plus et d'autres
[57:33] questions, n'importe quoi. C'est
[57:34] une réunion importante. C'est
[57:35] important pour parler de choses
[57:37] et donner des raisons, des
[57:38] explications. I would like to
[57:40] cover a couple of these articles
[57:43] in the bylaw. Number 57, 57 here
[57:47] says each person may ask a first
[57:52] question with a short preamble
[57:55] and a second without a preamble
[57:59] in many instances, that's not
[58:01] happening. Furthermore, when
[58:02] three different people have
[58:04] already asked a question on the
[58:06] same subject, the subject may no
[58:07] longer be the object of the new
[58:09] questions before the question
[58:11] period and goes to the next
[58:12] council. Article 59, questions
[58:18] may only contain the words
[58:20] necessary to obtain the
[58:22] information requested. The
[58:24] question is, you want the
[58:25] information. It is not a
[58:27] monologue, it's not someone else
[58:29] up selling his product, or
[58:32] whatever. It contains a question
[58:34] is out of order when it contains
[58:36] a hypothesis, a deduction, or an
[58:38] attribution of motives. The
[58:40] answer it requires will
[58:41] constitute a professional
[58:43] opinion or a personal
[58:45] evaluation, like we did this
[58:46] evening. That is out of order.
[58:50] Pending -- requests or the
[58:53] matter under investigation where
[58:55] the words spoken maybe
[58:57] prejudicial to a person or
[58:58] reveal part of the evidence or
[59:00] argument. It contains abusive
[59:03] comet, it contains personal
[59:05] attacks, innuendo, swearing, or
[59:09] obscenities. Number 61, the
[59:11] chairman must ensure that the
[59:13] question period does not give
[59:15] way to any debate, either
[59:17] between members of Council, or
[59:18] between a member of Council and
[59:20] a person present.
[59:26] (inaudible)
[59:27] The chairman may limit a point
[59:31] of order in any person in
[59:32] violation of this bylaw or who
[59:34] exceeds the time on loan allowed
[59:35] for the question period, or the
[59:37] right of any person presents to
[59:39] ask questions. In order of the
[59:43] quorum, it cannot be maintained,
[59:44] the chairman may adjourn the
[59:46] council meeting. The public must
[59:49] obey an order from the president
[59:50] or the meeting related to order,
[59:53] and decorum. So, if you look at
[59:57] our meeting, and it was
[59:58] mentioned previously this
[59:59] evening about how the meetings
[1:00:01] are, and I have, heard and we
[1:00:02] have heard from many of you
[1:00:04] people who have come here, how
[1:00:06] dysfunctional it is, don't know
[1:00:07] what's going on, it's a
[1:00:09] free-for-all, well that is why.
[1:00:10] You follow these rules, there's
[1:00:13] a lot more organization to it.
[1:00:16] Just a comment, what we are
[1:00:17] passing tonight is this
[1:00:18] resolution. We realize we need
[1:00:21] help. This thing covers it very
[1:00:27] well. The municipal council is
[1:00:30] asking the Ministry, municipal
[1:00:32] affairs, province of Québec, the
[1:00:36] -- identify the nature of
[1:00:39] problems and propose an action
[1:00:41] plan to improve the general
[1:00:43] functioning of the city, okay?
[1:00:45] The city is made up of elected
[1:00:48] officials, where is the
[1:00:50] administration, Council, the
[1:00:51] mayor. We offer support in
[1:00:54] specialized services for
[1:00:55] implementation. This is not a
[1:00:57] joke. There's nothing hiding
[1:00:59] here, an opportunity for us, and
[1:01:03] we will take advantage of it is
[1:01:05] if we could get some suggestions
[1:01:06] on how we can do things, or
[1:01:09] approach issues. So, anyway.
[1:01:12] Thank you.
[1:01:17] >> Councillor Homan?
[1:01:18] >> Good evening. I'm going to be
[1:01:19] short. I support this resolution
[1:01:21] because, for the last two and a
[1:01:22] half years, we have been trying
[1:01:25] many different ways to work
[1:01:29] together, and it's been quite a
[1:01:30] struggle. As we see how the
[1:01:32] meetings have been running,
[1:01:33] tonight was a fine example,
[1:01:34] there is lack of respect, lack
[1:01:37] of leadership, and I think that
[1:01:39] we need to get back to the
[1:01:41] basics and follow our bylaws.
[1:01:43] This opportunity, through the
[1:01:45] government, is going to help us,
[1:01:47] give us guidance that we are
[1:01:49] struggling with right now. I
[1:01:50] have to remind people that we
[1:01:52] don't all agree, and never have
[1:01:54] always agreed. This is my third
[1:01:57] mandate we are independent
[1:01:59] candidates. We all come with our
[1:02:01] own beliefs to the table, and we
[1:02:03] have to work together to find
[1:02:05] ways to find either a compromise
[1:02:08] or a consensus. That's what we
[1:02:10] are struggling to do. For me, I
[1:02:12] support this resolution because
[1:02:14] we are not getting things moving
[1:02:15] ahead like we should. That is
[1:02:17] not fair to the citizens. Having
[1:02:20] free falls at the public
[1:02:21] meetings is exhausting. It is
[1:02:24] really, really tiring. I have
[1:02:25] never seen such lack of respect
[1:02:27] before in my life. I will be
[1:02:29] supporting this resolution, and
[1:02:31] hoping that the government will
[1:02:32] be able to guide us into the
[1:02:35] right ways in the next year and
[1:02:36] a half of this mandate. Thank
[1:02:38] you.
[1:02:39] >> Councillor Tremblay?
[1:02:41] >> Thank you, Mister Mayor. I
[1:02:43] can recall, on many occasions,
[1:02:46] in the previous mandate, and
[1:02:47] even in the mandate that was
[1:02:48] before that, so, to situate you,
[1:02:52] the mandate under the Belvedere
[1:02:56] administration, the Trudeau
[1:02:57] administration, sitting in the
[1:02:58] audience as you were, on many
[1:03:00] occasions, seeing things come
[1:03:02] apart it is not the first time
[1:03:04] there have been situations here
[1:03:05] that have absolutely, I would
[1:03:07] agree with Councillor Homan, it
[1:03:10] is discouraging to listen to
[1:03:11] time after time. This whole
[1:03:14] culture, this whole business of
[1:03:16] what transpires at council
[1:03:18] meetings is not new to this one.
[1:03:20] It's not new to this one. If you
[1:03:24] read, when you get an
[1:03:25] opportunity, to read the
[1:03:26] resolution, it doesn't only
[1:03:28] speak to PC 27-12, it asks for
[1:03:33] more. That is where I began to
[1:03:34] get worried. Let me read you my
[1:03:36] statement on where I stand on
[1:03:38] this position. Merci, Monsieur
[1:03:41] le Maire. Mesdames et Messieurs,
[1:03:44] merci. C'est de résolution est
[1:03:46] symbolique de la culture
[1:03:47] politique qui règne au sein du
[1:03:49] conseil municipal de
[1:03:50] Pointe-Claire. En effet, le
[1:03:52] style politique auquel nous
[1:03:53] assistons ce soir n'est pas
[1:03:55] apparu en 2021, ni à n'importe
[1:03:58] quel moment à ce mandat. C'est
[1:04:00] un héritage du mandat précédent,
[1:04:03] peut-être même des années
[1:04:06] précédentes. Ayant vécu dans cet
[1:04:07] environnement depuis plus de 2
[1:04:11] ans, je ne peux tout simplement
[1:04:13] pas croire que cette résolution
[1:04:15] soit déposée au nom de la paix,
[1:04:17] de l'amour et de la
[1:04:18] compréhension. C'est un coup de
[1:04:20] force absolue. C'est un coup de
[1:04:23] canon pour mettre fin à
[1:04:24] l'opposition politique
[1:04:27] aujourd'hui et peut-être aussi
[1:04:28] d'influencer les élections de
[1:04:30] 2025. Il faut se rappeler qu'il
[1:04:32] y a quand la même séquence
[1:04:33] d'événements qui ont mené à tout
[1:04:35] ça. Des lettres dans les médias,
[1:04:37] ce qu'on entend, ce qu'on voit,
[1:04:38] ce qu'on voit les conseillers
[1:04:39] écrire sur Facebook, les médias
[1:04:41] sociaux, etc., Une demande
[1:04:45] pour... The letter of
[1:04:46] resignation we've heard. There
[1:04:48] is a whole sequence of different
[1:04:49] events that led up to this. This
[1:04:51] is not in a vacuum. There is
[1:04:53] more to this, in my opinion.
[1:04:56] Notre communauté remonte au 18e
[1:04:59] siècle. Nous avons connu, au
[1:05:01] travers des générations, des
[1:05:02] guerres, des pandémies, des
[1:05:03] conditions météorologiques
[1:05:04] difficiles et toutes sortes de
[1:05:06] changements et de défis
[1:05:07] politiques ou sociaux. Tout au
[1:05:09] long de cette période, nous nous
[1:05:11] sommes tenus debout et avons
[1:05:14] mené les choses de l'avant. Les
[1:05:15] citoyens de Pointe-Claire se
[1:05:16] sont battus avec acharnement
[1:05:17] pour rester défusionné et aussi
[1:05:20] indépendant que possible, ne pas
[1:05:23] s'asseoir. À 1 an et demi des
[1:05:24] élections, 1 an et demi des
[1:05:26] élections, la seule solution est
[1:05:28] demeuré Québec à nos affaires.
[1:05:31] Je peux vous assurer, mesdames
[1:05:32] et messieurs, c'est qu'une
[1:05:34] mesure plus douce n'a été
[1:05:35] proposé pour apaiser les
[1:05:38] tensions et difficultés auto
[1:05:40] infligées décrit ici
[1:05:42] aujourd'hui. Comme certaines
[1:05:43] personnes bien informées Malone
[1:05:45] dit, votre ville se dirige plus
[1:05:48] ou moins vers une forme de mise
[1:05:50] sous tutelle. On n'est pas là.
[1:05:51] C'est peut-être la première
[1:05:53] phase, mais tranquillement pas
[1:05:54] vite, on avance dans cette
[1:05:56] direction-là. Il est important
[1:05:58] de souligner que je n'ai
[1:06:00] participé à aucune discussion
[1:06:01] relative à cette résolution,
[1:06:03] aucun membre du Conseil de
[1:06:05] l'administration a appelé pour
[1:06:06] en discuter avec moi. Et dans
[1:06:11] quel but? Nous avons mis en
[1:06:14] place un solide plan stratégique
[1:06:16] pour la ville. Notre directeur
[1:06:17] des finances et nos
[1:06:19] vérificateurs externes nous
[1:06:20] disent que notre situation
[1:06:21] financière est saine. Nous
[1:06:23] rénovons les vestiaires de
[1:06:24] l'aréna. Nous réparons les rues.
[1:06:26] Nous déneige ont. Nous
[1:06:27] modernisons le passage pour
[1:06:29] piétons des sources. Nous
[1:06:31] ajustons une passerelle piétons
[1:06:33] et cyclistes au-dessus de la
[1:06:35] Transcanadienne. Nous avons tenu
[1:06:36] six réunions de consultations
[1:06:37] publiques très populaires sur
[1:06:40] l'urbanisme qui, selon notre
[1:06:42] personnelle, ont été extrêmement
[1:06:43] utiles. Nous modernisons notre
[1:06:46] bâtiment des Travaux publics, un
[1:06:47] grand projet. Excusez-moi, j'ai
[1:06:52] perdu ma place. Gill mieux
[1:06:54] servir les résidents. Et même en
[1:06:56] période de gel, nous sommes en
[1:06:58] tête de l'ouest de l'île pour
[1:06:59] les projets de développement. Il
[1:07:00] est clair que les projets
[1:07:03] avancent. Et si ce n'est pas le
[1:07:06] cas, le même conseil majoritaire
[1:07:08] qui fait pression pour cette
[1:07:10] résolution ce soir peut le faire
[1:07:11] pour n'importe quel autre projet
[1:07:12] en vertu de son ombre. Aucune
[1:07:16] personne au groupe des personnes
[1:07:18] assis à cette table ou devant
[1:07:20] moi le détient la formule de ce
[1:07:23] qui est dans le meilleur intérêt
[1:07:24] des citoyens de Pointe-Claire.
[1:07:25] Nous sommes égaux. Les années
[1:07:27] passées en politique, l'âge, le
[1:07:30] genre, les connexions, les
[1:07:31] antécédents n'offrent pas de
[1:07:32] place prioritaires ici. Les
[1:07:34] opinions diverses doivent être
[1:07:38] patiemment absorbées dans la
[1:07:39] mesure de ce que nous sommes en
[1:07:41] tant que communauté si nous
[1:07:44] voulons réussir à aller de
[1:07:47] l'avant. Je voterai non par
[1:07:52] principe et je partagerai très
[1:07:54] certainement mon expérience et
[1:07:56] tout les matériel pertinent avec
[1:07:57] les représentants du MAMH, du
[1:08:00] ministère, si on me le demande.
[1:08:01] J'ai énormément de choses à dire
[1:08:03] à ce sujet. Ladies and
[1:08:05] gentlemen, this resolution is
[1:08:06] symbolic for the political
[1:08:07] culture that rain supreme in
[1:08:09] Pointe-Claire City Council. In
[1:08:10] fact, the style of politics we
[1:08:12] are witnessing this evening
[1:08:13] wasn't born in 2021, or at any
[1:08:15] point in this mandate. It's a
[1:08:17] carryover from the previous
[1:08:18] mandate, perhaps even years
[1:08:20] before. It's well entrenched
[1:08:24] having lived in this environment
[1:08:26] for more than two years, I
[1:08:27] simply can't believe this
[1:08:29] resolution is being tabled for
[1:08:30] the sake of peace, love, and
[1:08:31] understanding. This is brute
[1:08:33] force. Given the sequence of
[1:08:34] events that I've witnessed and
[1:08:35] seen in the past, it is a cannon
[1:08:38] shot to end political opposition
[1:08:39] and affect the 2025 election,
[1:08:41] whether you like it or not. Our
[1:08:44] committee runs back to the
[1:08:46] 1700s, generations have been
[1:08:48] through wars, pandemics,
[1:08:49] difficult weather, and all kinds
[1:08:52] of political and social changes
[1:08:53] and challenges. Through it, all
[1:08:55] we have stood on our own two
[1:08:56] feet, and lead the way. The
[1:08:58] citizens of Pointe-Claire have
[1:08:59] fought hard to remain emerged
[1:09:01] and as independent as possible,
[1:09:02] but not this evening. With an
[1:09:04] election only a year and a half
[1:09:05] away, only a year and a half
[1:09:07] away, the only solution is to
[1:09:09] bring Québec City into our
[1:09:10] affairs. I can assure you,
[1:09:12] ladies and gentlemen, there were
[1:09:13] no softer measures proposed to
[1:09:15] delay the self inflicted tension
[1:09:17] and difficulties outlined here
[1:09:19] today. I am not quite sure where
[1:09:23] all this starts and where it
[1:09:25] ends. Some of the well connected
[1:09:26] people I have spoken to about
[1:09:29] this, they have told me, your
[1:09:30] city is more or less heading
[1:09:31] towards some form of
[1:09:34] receivership. That was explained
[1:09:35] to me. We are not necessarily
[1:09:36] their, full agreement. We may be
[1:09:39] heading in that direction, which
[1:09:40] is shameful, in my opinion. It's
[1:09:42] important to underline, folks, I
[1:09:43] was not privy to any discussions
[1:09:46] relative to this discussion, nor
[1:09:47] on Council or the administration
[1:09:49] called to discuss it with me. It
[1:09:51] was simply prevented. Sorry, it
[1:09:53] was simply presented. For what
[1:09:55] purpose? We've been put -- we
[1:09:58] put in place a rich, strategic
[1:09:59] plan for the city, our finance
[1:10:01] director and outside
[1:10:02] undernourished Ellis that are
[1:10:03] fiscal picture is sound, we are
[1:10:05] innovating locked rooms,
[1:10:07] repairing streets, clearing
[1:10:08] snow, of getting sources
[1:10:10] crosswalk, adding a pedestrian
[1:10:11] cycle bridge over the
[1:10:12] Trans-Canada, held six popular
[1:10:15] in planning public consultation
[1:10:17] meetings that our staff's have
[1:10:19] been extremely helpful. We are
[1:10:22] updating our public works
[1:10:23] building to better serve
[1:10:24] residents, and even in a freeze,
[1:10:26] we lead the West Island in
[1:10:27] development projects. I'm
[1:10:29] skipping a number of things.
[1:10:30] Clearly, projects are moving
[1:10:32] forward. If they are not, that
[1:10:34] same majority that is pushing
[1:10:35] for this resolution tonight can
[1:10:37] do so for virtually any project,
[1:10:39] due to their numbers. No one
[1:10:43] person, group, or anyone in
[1:10:45] front of me owns the formula to
[1:10:47] what is in the best interest of
[1:10:48] the citizens of Pointe-Claire.
[1:10:50] We are equals. Years in office,
[1:10:53] age, gender, connection,
[1:10:55] background, don't offer priority
[1:10:56] seating in this place. Diverse
[1:10:58] of pinion space to be patiently
[1:10:59] absorbed in the mosaic of who we
[1:11:01] are as a community, if we are to
[1:11:03] succeed in moving forward.
[1:11:04] Another thing, I have lived in
[1:11:06] Pointe-Claire since 1965. I grew
[1:11:09] up here, I have raised children
[1:11:10] here, and I have a family.
[1:11:13] Sorry, I have family members and
[1:11:14] friends buried here, across the
[1:11:17] street. To be told by a newcomer
[1:11:20] councillor that I don't have
[1:11:21] Pointe-Claire citizens at heart
[1:11:23] is a deep insult to me. I will
[1:11:25] vote no out of principle, but I
[1:11:27] will mostly share my experience
[1:11:29] and all relevant materials with
[1:11:31] the representatives from the
[1:11:33] Ministry, or associated offices,
[1:11:35] and partake positively as I have
[1:11:37] in everything I've been involved
[1:11:38] in here. I have an enormous
[1:11:39] amount to tell on this matter.
[1:11:41] Thank you very much, Mister
[1:11:43] Mayor.
[1:11:46] [Applause]
[1:11:49] >> Councillor Thorstad-Cullen?
[1:11:50] >> Yes, good evening. Bonsoir.
[1:11:55] Ce soir, je propose d'appuyer la
[1:11:57] résolution d'une demande
[1:11:59] d'accompagnateur auprès du
[1:12:00] ministère des Affaires
[1:12:01] municipales et de l'habitation.
[1:12:04] Il s'agit d'une option offerte
[1:12:06] au conseils municipaux pour
[1:12:08] favoriser un fonctionnement
[1:12:11] optimal et assurer que les
[1:12:13] règlements municipaux sont
[1:12:15] respectés. Il y a plusieurs
[1:12:17] réunions publiques de conseils
[1:12:18] qui ne répondent pas à mes
[1:12:21] normes personnelles de
[1:12:23] professionnalisme, car le
[1:12:25] règlement PC 27-12 n'est pas
[1:12:28] respectée. Et ce sentiment est
[1:12:29] également partagée par d'autres
[1:12:31] membres du conseil et d'autres
[1:12:33] citoyens de Pointe-Claire. De
[1:12:35] nombreux citoyens de
[1:12:36] Pointe-Claire nous ont demandé
[1:12:39] d'intervenir. Nous devons ré
[1:12:41] établir le leadership. Nous
[1:12:43] avons besoin de vérité et non de
[1:12:47] désinformation. Il est temps que
[1:12:48] la Ville de Pointe-Claire
[1:12:50] profite de cette ressource qui
[1:12:53] est à notre disposition.
[1:12:56] J'aimerais souligner que la
[1:12:57] demande présentée ce soir vise à
[1:12:59] obtenir les services d'un
[1:13:02] accompagnateur et non à prendre
[1:13:03] en charge la gestion de la
[1:13:07] ville. On s'attend à ce que
[1:13:09] l'accompagnateur assure que
[1:13:10] notre fonctionnement est
[1:13:11] conforme à nos règlements et aux
[1:13:14] valeurs de la ville, qui inclut
[1:13:18] la poursuite d'excellence, la
[1:13:19] qualité de service, l'intégrité
[1:13:22] et le respect des gens. Good
[1:13:25] evening. Tonight I am moving to
[1:13:27] support the resolution of a
[1:13:28] request for a facilitator from
[1:13:30] the minister Ministère des
[1:13:31] Affaires municipales et de
[1:13:33] l'Habitation, this is an option
[1:13:35] available to City Council's to
[1:13:36] support optimal functioning and
[1:13:38] to ensure that a city's own
[1:13:40] bylaws are respected. There have
[1:13:42] been quite a few public council
[1:13:43] meetings that do not meet my
[1:13:45] personal standards of
[1:13:46] professionalism, as PC bylaw
[1:13:48] 27-12 is not being upheld, and
[1:13:50] this sentiment is shared by
[1:13:52] other members of Council, and
[1:13:54] other citizens of Pointe-Claire
[1:13:56] like. Many citizens of
[1:13:57] Pointe-Claire asked us to
[1:13:59] intervene. We need to reinstate
[1:14:01] leadership, we need truth and
[1:14:03] not misinformation. It is time
[1:14:05] the City of Pointe-Claire
[1:14:06] benefit from this resource that
[1:14:07] is available to us. I would like
[1:14:09] to highlight the request being
[1:14:11] proposed this evening is to
[1:14:12] request a facilitator, helped,
[1:14:15] it is not a request to take over
[1:14:17] management of the city. The
[1:14:19] expectation is that the
[1:14:20] facilitator will ensure their
[1:14:21] functioning is in line with our
[1:14:23] bylaws, and our city values,
[1:14:25] which include the pursuit of
[1:14:27] excellence, service quality,
[1:14:29] integrity, and respect for
[1:14:31] people. Thank you.
[1:14:34] >> Councillor Stork?
[1:14:37] - Bonjour à tous. I had
[1:14:40] something written down, but a
[1:14:41] lot has been said here today. I
[1:14:43] just want to say that we sit
[1:14:47] around here, and I am
[1:14:49] embarrassed. I am embarrassed
[1:14:51] for all of us in this room, the
[1:14:54] administration, citizens. We
[1:14:55] need help, plain and simple. I'm
[1:14:58] not going to go with this or
[1:15:00] that, deep into the muck on this
[1:15:03] scenario. We need help. We're
[1:15:04] asking for help on behalf of the
[1:15:07] citizens, what we feel, what I
[1:15:08] feel him supporting this motion
[1:15:09] is what is required for the
[1:15:11] citizens of our great city. You
[1:15:14] know, I will go a step further,
[1:15:16] the lady mentioned transparency,
[1:15:19] when this person comes in, who
[1:15:21] ever they may be, I will support
[1:15:24] the recommendations 100%, and I
[1:15:27] have no problem, is that funny,
[1:15:31] sir? I will support the
[1:15:36] recommendations of this
[1:15:37] facilitator 100%, and to the
[1:15:39] ladies questions of
[1:15:41] transparency, I don't know what
[1:15:42] the legality of this is, but I'm
[1:15:43] more than happy to make this
[1:15:44] document public once published.
[1:15:47] We have to address this, none of
[1:15:50] us are 100% part of the problem,
[1:15:52] none are part of the solution.
[1:15:54] We need help, and we are asking
[1:15:55] for it. Not for me, for all of
[1:15:58] us, but for you. We need help. I
[1:16:00] support this motion
[1:16:02] unequivocally. Thank you.
[1:16:07] >> Okay. As a first time mayor,
[1:16:15] Au début, tournoi, les réunions
[1:16:17] du conseil municipal était un
[1:16:20] exercice très, très intéressant
[1:16:23] et pas comme à l'Université.
[1:16:26] J'ai été à l'université pour une
[1:16:27] vingtaine d'années, et c'était
[1:16:28] un autre monde. Alors, pour moi,
[1:16:30] j'ai appris beaucoup. Ce que
[1:16:32] j'ai appris que dans nos
[1:16:35] conseils municipaux, il n'y a
[1:16:37] pas de respect. Ça manque de
[1:16:40] respect. Ce n'est pas moi qui
[1:16:41] manque de respect. Ce n'est pas
[1:16:43] moi du tout. Si vous voyez tous
[1:16:46] les webcast de notre conseil
[1:16:48] municipal, ce n'est pas moi qui
[1:16:50] manque de respect. Alors, je
[1:16:52] trouve que c'est étonnant que
[1:16:55] tout le monde me blâme moi pour
[1:16:58] la conduite des autres. Je suis
[1:17:02] responsable de ce qui se passe
[1:17:03] dans le conseil, mais si c'est
[1:17:07] un désastre, c'est un désastre.
[1:17:08] J'essaie de régler tout ça, mais
[1:17:10] ce n'est pas facile. For me, why
[1:17:12] is it a free-for-all? Councillor
[1:17:15] sent spoke about following
[1:17:17] rules. What if people don't
[1:17:18] follow rules? What if people
[1:17:20] don't respect them, and do so
[1:17:22] deliberately? How do you
[1:17:24] regulate that? This is my
[1:17:25] challenge. This has been my
[1:17:27] challenge with the council
[1:17:29] meetings. I am still learning, I
[1:17:32] must say. I've always tried,
[1:17:34] myself, personally, to engage
[1:17:36] with respect. I would encourage
[1:17:39] everybody who has heard this
[1:17:41] debate, all of you, all our
[1:17:43] meetings are webcasts. All of
[1:17:46] them. Please go back and watch
[1:17:48] them. We want transparency? You
[1:17:50] want the truth? You want to see
[1:17:52] the reality of what is going on
[1:17:54] here? Please, go back, owe it to
[1:17:57] yourselves, get to the truth. Go
[1:17:59] back and watch the council
[1:18:01] meetings, see the conduct of
[1:18:02] people in the council meetings,
[1:18:04] and you will get your answers,
[1:18:06] okay? We can all talk, but the
[1:18:09] proof is in the putting. Watch
[1:18:11] the webcasts. This latest
[1:18:13] resolution from Council's,
[1:18:15] unfortunate, but does not come
[1:18:17] as a surprise. In the last
[1:18:19] election, Pointe-Claire citizens
[1:18:21] decided to elect me as mayor.
[1:18:23] They also reelected a majority
[1:18:25] of councillors who are aligned
[1:18:27] with former Mayor Belvedere, and
[1:18:29] who oppose my platform on
[1:18:32] development, the environment,
[1:18:33] and heritage protection. I hoped
[1:18:36] this might lead to some
[1:18:38] compromise. At the very least, I
[1:18:40] had hoped Council might show
[1:18:42] greater tolerance for debate,
[1:18:44] and different opinions. I
[1:18:47] functioned four years in a world
[1:18:48] of respect for other people's
[1:18:50] opinions. I hoped this greater
[1:18:54] tolerance for different
[1:18:55] opinions, even if the opinions
[1:18:59] remain, the decisions at the end
[1:19:00] remain the same. In other words,
[1:19:02] we know we're going to go
[1:19:03] anyways, but allow us,
[1:19:05] sometimes, I felt like, I'm
[1:19:06] going to lose anyway, but let me
[1:19:08] get my message out. Just getting
[1:19:10] my message out has, at times,
[1:19:12] been difficult. The last two and
[1:19:14] a half years have been a
[1:19:16] scorched earth approach of
[1:19:18] intolerance at Council meetings
[1:19:20] and concerted pressure on the
[1:19:22] members of Council to resign
[1:19:23] before the end of our four-year
[1:19:26] mandates. We know who the new
[1:19:27] members are. Unfortunately, I
[1:19:30] believe this pressure
[1:19:31] contributed to the resignation
[1:19:32] of one of them, Councillor
[1:19:35] Tedford who will inform you
[1:19:37] clearly why she resigned, she
[1:19:38] has written it. You can find out
[1:19:40] why she resigned. I can give you
[1:19:42] her resignation letter. It says,
[1:19:45] pretty much, what I think you
[1:19:46] should know. The current
[1:19:48] resolution from the ruling
[1:19:50] majority on Council is
[1:19:51] consistent with many of their
[1:19:53] previous tactics, which include
[1:19:57] averting to former
[1:19:58] communications committee to
[1:19:59] censor my interviews and social
[1:20:00] media posts, publicly condemning
[1:20:03] Councillor Tedford in what
[1:20:05] amounted to a motion of sensor
[1:20:07] for merely disagreeing with the
[1:20:10] developer who heckled and
[1:20:11] disrupted her speech in this
[1:20:13] chamber at the previous meeting.
[1:20:16] Carrying out repeated staged
[1:20:18] walkouts and boycotts of caucus,
[1:20:20] and Council meetings. Alas
[1:20:22] public one in December, lasting
[1:20:24] nearly half an hour. I sat here,
[1:20:25] it waited for everyone to come
[1:20:27] back to work. Finally, for
[1:20:31] repeatedly demanding my
[1:20:32] resignation in print and on
[1:20:33] social media, is this trying to
[1:20:36] make Council work? Is this
[1:20:38] getting along? As with
[1:20:40] Councillor Tedford, the scorched
[1:20:42] earth campaign has extended to
[1:20:44] my private life. Among other
[1:20:46] things, a member of this council
[1:20:49] went to the trouble of texting
[1:20:50] my significant other to suggest
[1:20:52] that I was having an affair, not
[1:20:55] once, but two times, involving
[1:20:57] two different women. Such antics
[1:21:01] are juvenile, even in high
[1:21:04] school. These kinds of
[1:21:06] disruptive, bullying tactics,
[1:21:08] and hostile and inappropriate
[1:21:09] language used by the ruling
[1:21:11] majority on Council, and their
[1:21:13] supporters at Council meetings,
[1:21:15] make our city look out of
[1:21:17] control. We are made to look out
[1:21:19] of control. The difference this
[1:21:22] time, asking the province to
[1:21:25] intervene with wording that
[1:21:26] suggests our city could even be
[1:21:28] placed under trusteeship
[1:21:30] escalates the situation to an
[1:21:32] entire other level. I think you
[1:21:34] all realize this. As I've said
[1:21:36] many times before, I have no
[1:21:39] intention of resigning. I will
[1:21:43] continue to do the job I was
[1:21:45] elected to do despite formidable
[1:21:49] verbal opposition. I won't make
[1:21:52] citizens pay the costs of an
[1:21:54] expensive by-election only 18
[1:21:56] months before the one that is
[1:21:58] already scheduled for November,
[1:22:01] 2025. Why would we do that? The
[1:22:05] majority on Council needs the
[1:22:07] kind of resolution proposed
[1:22:10] tonight. Seven out of nine
[1:22:12] votes, our cities agenda is
[1:22:14] primarily driven by them. We
[1:22:16] continue to have no residential
[1:22:19] development than the rest of the
[1:22:20] West Island combined, despite
[1:22:21] being only 15% of its total
[1:22:24] population. Nothing has changed
[1:22:27] here. The issue of the Fairview
[1:22:29] forest has not yet been allowed
[1:22:30] to be discussed at the public
[1:22:33] consultations on our urban plan.
[1:22:35] Council has voted to both remove
[1:22:38] multiple condo projects from our
[1:22:39] development fees, and reject the
[1:22:42] agreement I negotiated with the
[1:22:44] archdiocese to restore the
[1:22:45] Pointe-Claire windmill. If they
[1:22:48] genuinely believe that Québec
[1:22:50] City needs to take over,
[1:22:53] wouldn't it in fact be taking
[1:22:54] over from them? Wouldn't that be
[1:22:57] an admission of their own
[1:22:59] failure to govern? I would also
[1:23:04] point out that, beyond the
[1:23:06] conflict at the senior levels of
[1:23:07] city hall, and our disagreements
[1:23:09] on some major issues,
[1:23:12] Pointe-Claire is a city that
[1:23:13] runs well, whose finances are in
[1:23:16] good shape, and whose citizens
[1:23:18] receive excellent services from
[1:23:20] our rank-and-file City staff. I
[1:23:22] don't see why we need, or how we
[1:23:25] could benefit, from being
[1:23:27] managed by the provincial
[1:23:29] government. I must admit, I find
[1:23:30] it insulting to those who come
[1:23:32] in every day to make
[1:23:33] Pointe-Claire a better place,
[1:23:35] and succeed in doing so. Hang
[1:23:39] on, I'm not done. I'm getting
[1:23:41] some water.
[1:23:45] (inaudible)
[1:23:47] I will be voting against the
[1:23:50] resolution, not just because
[1:23:51] it's another unnecessary
[1:23:53] political tactic, but because it
[1:23:55] will thoroughly undermine our
[1:23:57] city's credibility, autonomy,
[1:23:59] and ability to get things done
[1:24:01] with other levels of government.
[1:24:04] Under previous mayors, like Bill
[1:24:06] McMurchie, and Malcolm Knox,
[1:24:08] Pointe-Claire took on a
[1:24:09] leadership role in representing
[1:24:12] the interest of the entire West
[1:24:14] Island to both downtown Montréal
[1:24:16] and the Québec government.
[1:24:19] Tonight, Council is asking for
[1:24:20] the province to intervene to
[1:24:23] help us govern ourselves.
[1:24:27] Council is asking the province
[1:24:29] to intervene to help us govern
[1:24:31] ourselves. There are many
[1:24:33] important files in which
[1:24:35] Pointe-Claire needs to take a
[1:24:37] stand. Most recently, I have
[1:24:38] been working with the mayors of
[1:24:40] Kirkland and Dollard-des-Ormeaux
[1:24:41] to oppose Montréal's proposal to
[1:24:44] increase our density targets
[1:24:46] without increased investments in
[1:24:47] public transit and
[1:24:50] infrastructure housing really do
[1:24:51] you think Montréal and Québec
[1:24:52] City will take us on this, or
[1:24:54] any other important file, if we
[1:24:56] are asking them to manage our
[1:24:59] city hall for us? You can't sit
[1:25:02] at the negotiating table if you
[1:25:04] aren't even ready to sit at the
[1:25:06] grown-ups table. I will come
[1:25:09] help and constructive
[1:25:11] suggestions when it comes to
[1:25:12] making Council function with
[1:25:14] less rancor. I worry about the
[1:25:17] consequences of this resolution
[1:25:18] for the rest of the city, which
[1:25:20] simply deserves better than
[1:25:22] petty, political antics.
[1:25:24] Whatever short term political
[1:25:25] advantage this resolution will
[1:25:27] get from members of Council, or
[1:25:28] their candidate for mayor, will
[1:25:30] be outweighed by the lasting
[1:25:32] damage to our cities reputation.
[1:25:34] It deserves to be voted down.
[1:25:36] Thank you very much.
[1:25:44] We are voting, yes, okay. In
[1:25:47] support of the request for
[1:25:51] Ministère des Affaires
[1:25:52] municipales et de l'Habitation,
[1:25:53] do I have a mover? Moved and
[1:25:56] seconded? All in favour?
[1:26:01] (inaudible)
[1:26:04] All against?
[1:26:09] (inaudible)
[1:26:10] I do. We shouldn't be yelling,
[1:26:11] sir. I do, I can, when I choose.
[1:26:13] Excuse me, sir --
[1:26:15] >> Thank you.
[1:26:17] >> 16.1.
[1:26:18] >> Yes.
[1:26:21] - 16.1 Autoriser des crédits
[1:26:22] additionnels d'une somme de
[1:26:23] 862625,02 $, taxes incluses,
[1:26:25] pour des travaux supplémentaires
[1:26:27] dans le cadre du projet 22-033 -
[1:26:29] avenues Lakeside et Lakeview et
[1:26:32] chemin du Bord-Du-Lac-Lakeshore.
[1:26:36] Do I have a mover?
[1:26:41] >> Cowan, district eight.
[1:26:44] >> Cynthia Homan, district 5.
[1:26:46] - Monsieur Cousineau, êtes-vous
[1:26:47] en faveur ou en défaveur?
[1:26:49] - En désaccord.
[1:26:50] - Vous votez contre. Those
[1:26:51] against? Merci. Closure? For
[1:26:58] closure, do I have a mover?
[1:26:59] >> I'm up to close, Tara
[1:27:02] Stainforth, district 4.
[1:27:03] >> Seconder?
[1:27:05] - Bruno Tremblay, district 6.
[1:27:07] - En faveur? Thank you very
[1:27:10] much, folks. Merci beaucoup.
[1:27:13] Oui, vous pouvez poser des
[1:27:15] questions.