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- Bonsoir, tout le monde. J'ai

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convoqué cette réunion spéciale

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ce soir pour voter sur un seul

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point. Je propose une résolution

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visant à organiser des

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consultations publiques sur

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l'avenir de la forêt

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- Et sur la hauteur des

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bâtiments dans les

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stationnements Fairview. À

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l'origine, j'espérais que ces

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consultations se tiendraient

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naturellement dans le cadre du

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processus de révision de notre

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plan d'urbanisme.

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- Nous devons pouvoir définir,

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dont je dispose entend premier,

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et celui de convoquer à tout

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moment des réunions

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extraordinaire du conseil et de

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fixer les points à inscrire à

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leur ordre du jour. J'ai choisi

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d'utiliser ce pouvoir pour faire

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avancer ce dossier. Je

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structurer ma résolution de

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manière à maximiser les

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possibilités de participation

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des habitants d'ermitage, qui

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seront les plus touchés, nous

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veillerons à ce que les réunions

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de consultation se tiennent dans

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ou à la limite de leur district.

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Et à ceux qui reçoivent un avis

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par courrier. Enfin, la

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résolution engage le conseil à

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geler le développement de

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Fairview et de la forêt Fairview

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jusqu'à... jusqu'à ce que les

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consultations aient lieu et que

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notre plan d'urbanisme est été

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révisée.

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Quoiqu'il en soit, le but de la

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résolution de ce soir est

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d'exiger une décision, de

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manière ou d'une autre, qui

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donnera aux citoyens le minimum

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de transparence et de démocratie

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qu'ils méritent. Le conseil peut

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réagir de différentes manières

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en votant pour ou contre l'ordre

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du jour et la résolution en

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proposant des amendements. Mais

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quelle que soit l'option

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choisie, les décisions seront

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prises au grand jour et non à

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huis clos. Et vous, en tant que

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citoyen, sur est en mesure de

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nous tenir tous responsables.

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Bon.

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- 1.1 Adoption de l'ordre du

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jour.

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>> For the adoption of the

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junta, do I have a mover?

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>> Kelly Thorstad-Cullen with

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one modification, to move the

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question period to after the 0.6

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on the agenda, please.

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>> Do I have a mover for the

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agenda?

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>> Okay, do I have a seconder

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for the amendment?

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>>

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>> Yes.

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>> So that you can ask us our

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questions about our opinions on

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it in more detail.

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>> For myself personally, it's

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preferable to hear the

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explanations before the vote. I

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have to hear you speak before we

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vote, so that you might

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influence us to the people might

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actually be heard. That would be

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my preferred course of action,

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but that hasn't been voted for.

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>> That's actually not the

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purpose of question period.

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Question period is not allowed

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to encourage debate under our

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rules and procedures.

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>> It's not there to encourage

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debate, it's there to inform

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Council of the opinions of the

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citizenry. Which is always a

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good thing in democracy. Okay,

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so all in favour?

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- Je vous suggère de voter

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d'abord sur la proposition

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d'amendement de madame Kelly

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Thorstad-Cullen et ensuite, on

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votera sur l'ordre du jour

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avant... avec ou sans

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amendement. Le premier vote

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serait sur la proposition

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d'amendement de madame Kelly

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Thorstad-Cullen.

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>> Okay, so do we have a mover

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and a seconder for the amendment

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of Councillor Cowan? -

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All in favour? All against?

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Okay.

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>> The question period is moved

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after 6.1, to become 6.2.

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>> Okay, so at this point I was

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prepared for question period.

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Now we move to --

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>> 6.1?

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>> Yes. - 6.1 Prévoir la tenue

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d'une assemblée publique de

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consultation spécifiquement

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dédiée au futur des espaces

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verts publics et privés,

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incluant la Forêt Fairview dans

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la zone MU2 et d'une assemblée

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subséquente sur le volume et la

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hauteur des édifices

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résidentiels qui seront permis

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dans la zone MU1, soit le

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stationnement du Fairview.

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-in zone Mu1.

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>> So, I move 6.1. Do I have a

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seconder?

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>> I will second, Bruno

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Tremblay, district six. The

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reason why I'm seconding is that

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I think it is worth having a

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debate and an open discussion on

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this particular theme. I would

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have preferred a question period

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ahead of time, but to me it

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makes no difference one way or

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another. From that point, I

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believe since you proposed the

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6.1, you get to speak first.

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>> Okay, I've already pretty

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much spoken. But I will allow

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others to speak. I've given

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pretty much my elaboration.

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Other than just to reiterate the

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fact that the buck election that

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I succeeded in winning is

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because I voted to stop the

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downtown of the West Island, not

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stop, it but prevent the Polish

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ration of the downtown of the

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West Island and I committed to

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trying to protect the Fairview

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forest. Those are my two major

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planks in my platform. Neither

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of which have been spoken to or

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addressed in the public

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consultation to date. Which

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breaks my heart, which is why

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I'm doing this. The whole reason

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I ran, I'm not able to have

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addressed to the citizens. Which

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is nothing but a source of

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frustration, not just for me,

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but for you. And that's the

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important part. Democracy is the

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most important part. You should

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get to speak on these issues.

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Thank you.

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>> Councillor Cowan?

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Okay. Councillor Stork?

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>> I'm happy. I'm happy.

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Actually, contrary to what has

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been said, I would believe

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everyone here is very interested

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in saving as much green space as

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we can. Particularly in

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discussion of Mu2. However, the

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resolution as it is written, my

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personal opinion is that it

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would put us in some litigation

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that's not in the best interest

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of our citizens so we just want

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to time to be able to review the

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resolution to allow a public

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consultation that's within the

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limits that we are legally

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allowed to do within a city and

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I thought everyone had agreed

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that they wanted this public

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consultation so we just need to

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do it in the proper fashion to

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protect our citizens. So that is

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why it needs modification, but

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there are some points of

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resolution that would stand very

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true and hold firm and would be

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very good for us to have. But I

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need to do my due diligence and

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respect the legal rights of our

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citizens and not put us into any

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hot water. That is why you will

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see me voting against this

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resolution. But with a new one

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to come.

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>> Councillor Homan?

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>> Unfortunately, I cannot

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consciously vote in favour of

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passing this resolution.

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Unfortunately, I cannot

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consciously vote in favour of

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passing this resolution. There

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are too many statements that are

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questionable. I am not

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comfortable just accepting it as

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it is written. This resolution

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for me needs to be vetted by our

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legal department or

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administrations for its validity

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before it could possibly move

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forward. I also feel that

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everyone in this room,

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Councillor included, since we've

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never discussed at Council, I

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always find it very hard when

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the mayor tells me how I feel

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about this, yet has never asked

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me. So we will leave this as a

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separate thing. He said it again

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in his opening remarks, we never

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had a conversation, I think we

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want to hear what everyone wants

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to say but I'm very concerned

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about possible litigation, there

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are other things that need to be

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looked at. We have Councillor

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need to be responsible for the

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whole city as well as the fiscal

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soundness of the city. Decisions

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need to be made based on facts.

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And not just on passion. I

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appreciate everyone's passion

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and their commitment to this,

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but we are also committed to

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ensuring that the City is making

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the best decisions based on

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facts. So that is why I can't

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possibly look at it. I am not

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and have never been against

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organizing by council the

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administration and the mayor a

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consultation, even though it's

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been stated differently this

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evening, regarding some of the

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concerns that our citizens have

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about these issues. I think

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we've heard everyone's concerns

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for many years now, and I do

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think that we have to have a

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consultation. But it has to be

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done with the idea that we are

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not overstepping, know that we

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are in court with the owners of

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this building, we have to think

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about that also. So that's why I

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could not vote for or move this

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resolution forward at this

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moment.

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>> Councillor Bissonnette?

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>> I will vote against this

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resolution. And I will give you

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the reasons why. Because first

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of all, the manner in which this

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meeting was convened, as well as

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the request in 6.1. Number, one

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there's a lack of transparency,,

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and also respect for council by

282
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000
the mayor was. In the manner in

283
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
which this meeting was convened.

284
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000
I've served under the three --

285
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,000
and have never witnessed such

286
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,000
behaviour. We held a caucus

287
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000
meeting at 4:00 list Tuesday

288
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,000
till 8:15. We hold one every

289
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,000
Tuesday from four till about

290
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000
8:00. So there is no surprise.

291
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000
And the mayor never once

292
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,000
mentioned any thing pertaining

293
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,000
to this special meeting. I was

294
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,000
made aware of this special

295
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,000
meeting last Thursday, October

296
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,000
the 10th, when a public security

297
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,000
employee delivered an antelope

298
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,000
to my home. Administration stuff

299
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,000
being on summer hours we -- the

300
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Adams and 6.1 should have been

301
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000
discussed in Council. That's why

302
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000
they're not in Council, in

303
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,000
caucus. The Mayor's -- that's

304
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,000
why we have a caucus is to

305
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000
discuss that we have the

306
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,000
information, do we need more

307
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000
information, what can we, do and

308
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,000
then once we have our act

309
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,020
together then you can start

310
00:17:02,020 --> 00:17:03,020
consulting and finding out what

311
00:17:03,020 --> 00:17:05,020
you can do. But when you start

312
00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:07,020
up with a white sheet of paper,

313
00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:10,020
the consulting is basically --

314
00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:12,020
we had consulting several years

315
00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:13,020
ago, and the things that are

316
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:16,020
coming back now are very similar

317
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:19,020
than what we had before. So,

318
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:21,020
that's number one. Number two,

319
00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:23,020
there is no urgency that

320
00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:25,020
required convening this special

321
00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:29,020
meeting for zones MU1 and MU2.

322
00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:34,020
Both zones are already in the

323
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:36,020
ICB -- I never get it straight.

324
00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:38,020
They're both frozen. The zones

325
00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:43,020
also in the CMM RCI. En milieu

326
00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:46,020
terrestre, un milieu humide.

327
00:17:46,020 --> 00:17:48,020
The redevelopment of zone MU1

328
00:17:48,020 --> 00:17:50,020
has not been discussed in

329
00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:53,020
caucus, nor in any one of our

330
00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:57,020
RCI meetings. Zero discussion.

331
00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:59,020
The architectural parameters

332
00:17:59,020 --> 00:18:00,080
pertaining to the height and

333
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,080
size of the residential

334
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,080
buildings, as well as the other

335
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,080
potential parameters in the

336
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,080
zoning bylaw four zone MU1 will

337
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,080
it be discussed during our RCI

338
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,080
meetings. Number three, in view

339
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,080
of the importance and the public

340
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,080
awareness surrounding these two

341
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,080
zones, I do not agree that a

342
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,080
public consultation must be in

343
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,080
the immediate vicinity of

344
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,080
district six. But rather in the

345
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,080
most practical location, it must

346
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,080
be open to all capital A L L.

347
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,080
Pointe-Claire citizens and

348
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,080
taxpayers. Don't forget the

349
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,080
taxpayers who don't live here.

350
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,080
Number four, in addition -- to

351
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,080
provide notice of any public

352
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,080
consultation meetings by -- it

353
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,080
must also apply to all

354
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,080
Pointe-Claire residents and

355
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:52,080
taxpayers and not only to

356
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,080
district six citizens residing

357
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,080
near to highway 40. I agree that

358
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,080
all Pointe-Claire residents and

359
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,040
taxpayers must have the

360
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,040
opportunity to express their

361
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,040
views and their input collected

362
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,040
and considered. I agree on that

363
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:11,040
one. I'm going to read the

364
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,040
province of Québec citizens Act

365
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,040
52. We'll start off by saying

366
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,040
that

367
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000
- Et soumet au conseil tout

368
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,000
projet qu'ils croient nécessaire

369
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,000
ou utile.

370
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
>> Is there any questions on the

371
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,000
translation? Because I didn't

372
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
translate it all and it's not in

373
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,000
English. You can see the mayor

374
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,000
has considerable power and

375
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000
influence as a chief executive

376
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:47,000
of the city. The president of CN

377
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,000
are has the power to do things

378
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,000
but, of any other major

379
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,000
corporation. And that goes for

380
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,000
the city. I have never heard the

381
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,060
mayor make a direct request to

382
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:03,060
the administration to have zones

383
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:07,060
that MU1 and MU2 then added to

384
00:21:07,060 --> 00:21:10,060
the agenda for discussion at our

385
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:12,060
weekly caucus meetings or to any

386
00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:16,060
of the icy be working sessions.

387
00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:20,060
And the direct request is

388
00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:23,060
- Madame Verdon, voudrait vous

389
00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:25,060
mettre lui... l'item

390
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:26,060
(---)

391
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:31,060
sur l'agenda de lundi prochain?

392
00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:33,060
He has never made that request,

393
00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:36,060
and I think I missed one public

394
00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:37,060
meeting, not the less, won the

395
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:39,060
previous one. And I rarely miss

396
00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:41,060
a meeting or a caucus. I never

397
00:21:41,060 --> 00:21:45,060
missed a caucus. So it's not

398
00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:46,060
just I can't and I don't know

399
00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:47,060
how to do it. He has the power,

400
00:21:47,060 --> 00:21:50,060
he has the authority, and if he

401
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:51,060
feels and believes it's this

402
00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:52,060
urgent that it has to be

403
00:21:52,060 --> 00:21:54,060
tonight, it can certainly be

404
00:21:54,060 --> 00:21:55,060
made the request that it

405
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:57,060
should've been on the agenda so

406
00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:58,060
we could've discussed it and

407
00:21:58,060 --> 00:22:01,020
said, okay, now what processes,

408
00:22:01,020 --> 00:22:05,020
and what are the options?

409
00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:06,020
Example, you can buy it if

410
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:07,020
somebody wants to sell it. It's

411
00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:10,020
an option. You can expropriate.

412
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:12,020
What has to be done so that at

413
00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:13,020
least you have the basic

414
00:22:13,020 --> 00:22:15,020
information of where you are

415
00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:16,020
going? And then decide the

416
00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:19,020
destination before you start off

417
00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:22,020
with. We will go to go back or

418
00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:25,020
something. He has the authority

419
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:28,020
to supervise, investigate,

420
00:22:28,020 --> 00:22:29,020
control all departments as well

421
00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:31,020
as the municipal employees. He

422
00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:33,020
cannot blame Council because he

423
00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:35,020
did not assume his

424
00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:36,020
responsibilities, and this is

425
00:22:36,020 --> 00:22:40,020
not just a -- contest. Council

426
00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:42,020
is not perfect, the mayor's not

427
00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:45,020
perfect, nobody is perfect. But

428
00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:48,020
he cannot constantly blame

429
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:50,020
Council for things that are not

430
00:22:50,020 --> 00:22:52,020
happening. He has got to put out

431
00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:54,020
and he's got to show me

432
00:22:54,020 --> 00:22:57,020
leadership and running the city.

433
00:22:57,020 --> 00:23:00,080
A lot has been said about zone

434
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,080
two. But very little has been

435
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,080
said about the potential cost to

436
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,080
Pointe-Claire residents and

437
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,080
taxpayers. It's not free. But

438
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,080
nobody talks about the cost. We

439
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,080
talk about the environmental

440
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,080
benefit we. I understand it, I

441
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,080
agree with that. But it is owned

442
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,080
by a corporation who is the

443
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,080
owner. It's your house, you own

444
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,080
and,

445
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,080
-- has opened up doors for

446
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,080
possibilities but there's also

447
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,080
restrictions, and is wrapping up

448
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,080
on that, I think she's going to

449
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,080
a seminar in two weeks to get

450
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,080
more information on how that law

451
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,080
can be applied. But we are not

452
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,080
in a position to start talking

453
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,080
about something when you don't

454
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,080
even know what the details are.

455
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,080
And these things are not just

456
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,040
black and white. You have to

457
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,040
understand that there are

458
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,040
different ways of going about

459
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,040
things. At least you have

460
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,040
somebody here on board knowing

461
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,040
the information. I'm therefore

462
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,040
asking the city manager to

463
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,040
initiate the process in order to

464
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,040
obtain a complete biological

465
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,040
characterization of new MU2.

466
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,040
This study will provide the

467
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,040
ecological value, which is a

468
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,040
very important component in

469
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,040
establishing the overall value

470
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,040
of the land site. Where is it,

471
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,040
what is it? We list all of the

472
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,040
different things that are there.

473
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,040
But it has to be valued by a

474
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,040
professional that looks at it

475
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,040
and prepares its biological

476
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,040
characterization of MU2. So I'm

477
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,040
asking her to start the process

478
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,040
and get it going. That's a

479
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,040
direct request. Okay? I have

480
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,040
somebody that votes against it

481
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,040
or doesn't want to do, it, fine.

482
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,000
But that's my request, is to do

483
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,000
it. That's what the mayor can

484
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,000
do. The last thing, and I won't

485
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
bore you with this, is there

486
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,000
could be a significant financial

487
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
impact. I said there could be an

488
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:18,000
impact. All Pointe-Claire

489
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000
residents and taxpayers

490
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,000
requiring a citywide referendum

491
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,000
be held in order to really know

492
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,000
what all of the people, Al, want

493
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000
prior to making any one final

494
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000
decision regarding zone MU2.

495
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,000
It's not a decision of district

496
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,000
six people are people living

497
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,000
next door. This is a major role

498
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000
that a valuation -- and I will

499
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000
give you a small example of the

500
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000
transaction that took place at

501
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,000
the marketplace in the last two

502
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,000
years. They have two or three

503
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:01,060
buildings in Pointe-Claire will.

504
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:06,060
They paid $30 million.20 32 by

505
00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:11,060
11 acres and 11 hectares did you

506
00:26:12,060 --> 00:26:14,060
buy the Technoparc in

507
00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:16,060
Saint-Laurent. The land there is

508
00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:18,060
similar, has a lot of the same

509
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:22,060
features as MU2 we. It has a REM

510
00:26:22,060 --> 00:26:23,060
station, it's not located as

511
00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:26,060
close as this one. But it has

512
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:29,060
and is part of the Technoparc.

513
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:31,060
People opposed it, the president

514
00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:33,060
of the tech company got

515
00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:34,060
involved, and they came back and

516
00:26:34,060 --> 00:26:38,060
they said to the City of

517
00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:41,060
Montréal, we will buy it back at

518
00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:43,060
the same price that we paid for

519
00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:46,060
it. They are not making any

520
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:50,060
money, they paid 30, they would

521
00:26:50,060 --> 00:26:51,060
sell it to them for the same

522
00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:54,060
price. For that and the

523
00:26:54,060 --> 00:26:55,060
establishment, they wanted a

524
00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:56,060
head office and they wanted a

525
00:26:56,060 --> 00:26:59,060
major plant. So that's what they

526
00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:02,020
did. But if you divide 30

527
00:27:02,020 --> 00:27:04,020
million by 11, you're pretty

528
00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:06,020
close to three billion dollars

529
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:10,020
per hectare. And you to have 23

530
00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:16,020
hectares. 23, 4:24? 24 hectares.

531
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:19,020
So 24 times three. That's a very

532
00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:21,020
quick and dirty ballpark.

533
00:27:21,020 --> 00:27:23,020
Because that is a market

534
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:27,020
transaction that took place, and

535
00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:29,020
all I'm saying is I'm giving you

536
00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:30,020
the facts, it was in the

537
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:32,020
Gazette, it's published, I'm not

538
00:27:32,020 --> 00:27:34,020
inventing anything here. I'm

539
00:27:34,020 --> 00:27:36,020
just saying that we are not

540
00:27:36,020 --> 00:27:38,020
talking 1000 or $2,000. We are

541
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:40,020
talking significant investment.

542
00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:42,020
But we have to know where we're

543
00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:43,020
going and we have to know what

544
00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:46,020
options that we have. So thank,

545
00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:49,020
you merci. Merci.

546
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080
-- Some might call that a point

547
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,080
of order. First of all, it's 43

548
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,080
acres, I believe. So it's 43

549
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,080
acres. Councillor Bissonnette,

550
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,080
go ahead.

551
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,080
>> For Pointe-Claire, in 2005,

552
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,080
it was only studying the trees.

553
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,080
It stipulates 23. It gives you

554
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,080
the boundaries. The service

555
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080
road, Brunswick, it used to be

556
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,080
Harvey, now it's Fairview and

557
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,080
the other side. And that's

558
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,080
what's in the study for the City

559
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,080
of Pointe-Claire. Thank you.

560
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,080
>> Okay, when we speak in

561
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,080
caucus, it's presumably

562
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,080
confidential. A lot of what we

563
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,080
say doesn't get out. When

564
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,080
there's seven people after the

565
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,080
fact that say what was spoken

566
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,080
behind closed doors to one, it's

567
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,040
pretty hard to fight that. So

568
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,040
what goes on in front of you is

569
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,040
what you should really believe.

570
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,040
What you're being told about

571
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,040
what goes on behind closed

572
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,040
doors, you don't know if that's

573
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,040
true or not and don't ever

574
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,040
believe it. But suffice it to

575
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,040
say that in the time that we've

576
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,040
been in operation, we have

577
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,040
spoken about the Fairview forest

578
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,040
many, many times. If you think

579
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,040
we haven't addressed it, that is

580
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,040
complete dishonesty. Councillor

581
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Tremblay has on numerous

582
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,040
occasions, and I'm divulging

583
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,040
caucus confidentiality, asked

584
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,040
each one of the councillors

585
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,040
pigment to saving the forest.

586
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,040
Not one of them has. That is

587
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,040
true. Councillor we, I

588
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,040
apologize. I don't recall that.

589
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,040
On every occasion that he's done

590
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,040
that, the book of Council has

591
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,040
been not supportive at all. Let

592
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,040
me tell you what the powers of

593
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,000
the mayor. If you fire someone,

594
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
or you use a Pete O, one month

595
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000
later that can be overturned. My

596
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000
veto can be overturned at the

597
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,000
next meeting by Council, as can

598
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
-- so your power if the councils

599
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,000
against you is your ineffective

600
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,000
and you become like crying wolf.

601
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,000
You are using it over no version

602
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000
which is why don't you know

603
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
everything even though I get

604
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,000
overruled all the time. So, it

605
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,000
sounds like I have all kinds of

606
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,000
power but that power gets

607
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,000
overturned one month after I

608
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,000
used it. And that's what happens

609
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:39,000
to a man. Councillor, would you

610
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,000
like to proceed with the

611
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,000
statement?

612
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,000
- Malheureusement, en raison du

613
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,000
cours de cette résolution, je ne

614
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,000
peux pas voter en faveur de son

615
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000
adoption. Cette résolution n'a

616
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
manifestement pas été rédigé ni

617
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,000
examiné par notre administration

618
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,000
ou

619
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,000
(inaudible)

620
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,060
. Il s'agit d'un méli-mélo de

621
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:01,060
penser mal structurée et de

622
00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:02,060
phrases toutes faites et, en

623
00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:04,060
toute honnêteté, d'un acte de

624
00:31:04,060 --> 00:31:06,060
pouvoir inutile et abusif qui a

625
00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:08,060
fait perdre du temps au conseil

626
00:31:08,060 --> 00:31:10,060
et à l'administration,

627
00:31:10,060 --> 00:31:13,060
repoussant d'autres dossiers.

628
00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:15,060
Cependant, je serai plus

629
00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:16,060
qu'heureux d'avoir une

630
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:20,060
discussion avec le Conseil, le

631
00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:25,060
maire et l'administration sur la

632
00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:29,060
planification d'une consultation

633
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:30,060
concernant l'acquisition de

634
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:31,060
propres idées privées et la

635
00:31:31,060 --> 00:31:32,060
manière dont les citoyennes et

636
00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:33,060
citoyens souhaiteraient les voir

637
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:35,060
développer. Et quand je dis

638
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:37,060
développer, je ne parle pas des

639
00:31:37,060 --> 00:31:38,060
bâtiments, mais je parle de la

640
00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:40,060
façon qu'on va aménager, que ce

641
00:31:40,060 --> 00:31:43,060
soit une forêt, un parc, etc..

642
00:31:43,060 --> 00:31:46,060
Cependant, oups, désolé, depuis

643
00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:49,060
l'adoption du Règlement et le

644
00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:51,060
début du processus de

645
00:31:51,060 --> 00:31:53,060
consultation, nous avons eu de

646
00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:55,060
nombreuses discussions. Et les

647
00:31:55,060 --> 00:31:59,060
thèmes des consultation était

648
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:00,020
vaguement esquissé et développer

649
00:32:00,020 --> 00:32:02,020
au fur et à mesure des

650
00:32:02,020 --> 00:32:03,020
consultations en fonction de

651
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:05,020
l'orientation donnée par les

652
00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:07,020
citoyens. Le conseil, y compris

653
00:32:07,020 --> 00:32:08,020
le maire, a été mis au courant

654
00:32:08,020 --> 00:32:12,020
des sujets à venir et a disposé

655
00:32:12,020 --> 00:32:14,020
du temps et de l'espace pour

656
00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:16,020
discuter de ces préoccupations.

657
00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:17,020
Tous les sujets ont fait l'objet

658
00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:20,020
d'un accord unanime une fois

659
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:22,020
présentée. Comme nous n'avons

660
00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:26,020
pas assisté aux consultations,

661
00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:27,020
les observations ne peuvent se

662
00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:29,020
fonder que sur ce que j'ai lu ou

663
00:32:29,020 --> 00:32:31,020
ce qu'on m'a dit. De toute

664
00:32:31,020 --> 00:32:32,020
évidence, certaines personnes

665
00:32:32,020 --> 00:32:33,020
n'étaient pas satisfaites que le

666
00:32:33,020 --> 00:32:34,020
débat sur l'environnement tourne

667
00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:36,020
autour des espaces verts publics

668
00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:38,020
et des espaces citoyens privés

669
00:32:38,020 --> 00:32:41,020
et souhaitait élargir la

670
00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:44,020
discussion à ce que l'on appelle

671
00:32:44,020 --> 00:32:46,020
la

672
00:32:46,020 --> 00:32:47,020
-

673
00:32:47,020 --> 00:32:49,020
-. Bien qu'il faut prévoir un

674
00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:50,020
temps où un espace pour discuter

675
00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:55,020
de ce terrain, nous devons

676
00:32:56,020 --> 00:32:57,020
prévoir

677
00:32:57,020 --> 00:32:58,020
(---)

678
00:32:58,020 --> 00:32:59,020
l'organisation d'une

679
00:32:59,020 --> 00:33:00,080
consultation sur l'aménagement

680
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,080
de ce terrain n'aurait aucun

681
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,080
sens si nous n'avions pas

682
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,080
l'intention de l'acquérir. En

683
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,080
outre, si le maire a mentionné

684
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,080
en consultation supplémentaire

685
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,080
lors de réunions publiques, il

686
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,080
n'a jamais ajouté ce sujet à

687
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,080
l'ordre du jour d'un caucus. En

688
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:22,080
ce qui concerne le MU1, je

689
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,080
rappellerai au public que le

690
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,080
conseiller sur le suggestion du

691
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,080
maire d'utiliser le modèle de

692
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Kirkland, d'essayer d'organiser

693
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,080
une consultation à laquelle le

694
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,080
maire s'est ensuite imposé.

695
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,080
Compte tenu des problèmes

696
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,080
juridiques qui nous opposent

697
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,080
actuellement, aux propriétés du,

698
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,080
terrain je ne pense pas que ce

699
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,080
soit judicieux de voter sur un

700
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,080
document rédigé par un nom

701
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,080
professionnel plutôt que par

702
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,080
notre personnel juridique qui

703
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,080
pourrait compromettre l'issue du

704
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,080
litige.

705
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,080
>> Unfortunately due to the

706
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,080
content of this resolution, I

707
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,080
cannot vote in favour of passing

708
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,040
it. This resolution was not that

709
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,040
it by our legal department.

710
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,040
There's a hodgepodge of probably

711
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,040
structured thoughts and

712
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,040
catchphrases and in all

713
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,040
unnecessary -- that is wasted

714
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,040
the Council and the I

715
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,040
ministration's time pushing

716
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,040
other falls back. I would,

717
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,040
however, be more than happy to

718
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,040
have a discussion with Council,

719
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,040
the, Mayor and the

720
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,040
administration about planning or

721
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,040
consultation regarding the

722
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,040
acquisition of privately owned

723
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,040
properties and how that citizens

724
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,040
would like to see them

725
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,040
developed. And as I said in

726
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,040
French, when I say developed,

727
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,040
I'm not talking about buildings,

728
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,040
I'm just talking about what we

729
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,040
would do with the property.

730
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Whether it be putting in a

731
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,040
forest, a park, et cetera. And

732
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,040
when I talk about private

733
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,040
property, it can be waterfront

734
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,040
property, it can be a force

735
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,040
that's already in place, it can

736
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,040
be land that is having a

737
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,040
building falling down on it that

738
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,040
we want to redevelop. Since

739
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,040
placing the bylaw and beginning

740
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,040
the consultation process, we've

741
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,040
had many discussions. The topics

742
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,040
of the consultations were

743
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,040
loosely sketched out and

744
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,000
developed as they did the

745
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,000
consultations depending on the

746
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,000
direction citizens brought us.

747
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,000
The council, including the

748
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,000
mayor, were made privy to

749
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,000
upcoming topics and there was

750
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,000
time and place given to discuss

751
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
any concerns. All topics were

752
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,000
unanimously agreed upon once

753
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
presented. As we did not attend

754
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,000
the consultations, my

755
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,000
observations can only be made

756
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,000
via what I read or was told.

757
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,000
Evidently, some people were not

758
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,000
happy about the environmental

759
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000
discussion revolving around

760
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,000
public green spaces or privately

761
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,000
owned citizen spaces, and wanted

762
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,000
to brought in the discussion to

763
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,000
include what is known as the

764
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Fairview forest. Well there

765
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,000
should be a time and space

766
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,000
opened up to discuss that land,

767
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,000
it must begin with whether or

768
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,000
not we plan to acquire right and

769
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,000
how we plan to do so. Hosting a

770
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,000
consultation regarding the

771
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,000
planning of said land would make

772
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,000
no sense unless we are to

773
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,000
acquire it. Furthermore, well

774
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,000
the mayor has made mention of an

775
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,000
extra consultation during public

776
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,000
meetings, he has never added

777
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,000
this topic to be seen on a

778
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,000
caucus agenda for discussion. As

779
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,060
for what MU1, I will remind the

780
00:36:01,060 --> 00:36:02,060
public that Council based on the

781
00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:04,060
mayor's suggestions of using the

782
00:36:04,060 --> 00:36:05,060
Kirkland model did try to

783
00:36:05,060 --> 00:36:06,060
organize a consultation, which

784
00:36:06,060 --> 00:36:08,060
the Mayor than opposed. Given

785
00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:09,060
our current legal issues with

786
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:10,060
the owner of the property, I do

787
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:12,060
not think it's wise to vote on

788
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:14,060
anything drafted by a non

789
00:36:14,060 --> 00:36:15,060
professional, rather than our

790
00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:17,060
legal stuff that could endanger

791
00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:20,060
the outcome of the litigation.

792
00:36:20,060 --> 00:36:25,060
>> Councillor crews know?

793
00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:29,060
- Je vais lire quelques lignes

794
00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:31,060
en français et puis essayer de

795
00:36:31,060 --> 00:36:34,060
traduire le mieux que je peux.

796
00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:35,060
C'est quelques lignes que je

797
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:38,060
vais lire et je m'oppose à la

798
00:36:38,060 --> 00:36:40,060
résolution devant nous ce soir.

799
00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:42,060
Je n'ai rien à voir avec le

800
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:44,060
texte, les intentions de

801
00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:47,060
celui-ci.

802
00:37:02,020 --> 00:37:04,020
Écrit quand monsieur Lemaire

803
00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:06,020
avec...

804
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:07,020
(bruit)

805
00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:12,020
Avec... écrit par Monsieur le

806
00:37:12,020 --> 00:37:14,020
maires sans, au préalable,

807
00:37:14,020 --> 00:37:15,020
consulter l'administration et le

808
00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:18,020
conseil.

809
00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:38,020
>> And for most of the contents.

810
00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:41,020
Le processus est où la méthode

811
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:42,020
utilisée par monsieur le maire

812
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:44,020
est un affront envers les

813
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:45,020
citoyens de Pointe-Claire et

814
00:37:45,020 --> 00:37:46,020
j'espère que le conseil va

815
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:47,020
unanimement dénoncer le geste

816
00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:49,020
sans scrupules de Monsieur le

817
00:37:49,020 --> 00:37:51,020
Maire.

818
00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:55,020
>> The process used by Mr. Mayor

819
00:37:56,020 --> 00:38:01,080
it is an offensive towards

820
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,080
Pointe-Claire citizens. And I

821
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,080
hope that my colleagues well

822
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,080
denounce this unanimously. La

823
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,080
chose honorable à faire,

824
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,080
Monsieur le Maire, ce serait de

825
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,080
retirer le dépôt de cette

826
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,080
résolution immédiatement.

827
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,080
>> The Honourable thing to do,

828
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,080
Mister Mayor, would be to pull

829
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,080
out this resolution. Right now.

830
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,080
Tant que le processus de

831
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,080
consultation ne sera pas mieux

832
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,080
encadré, je m'opposerai à toute

833
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,080
proposition de consultation,

834
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,080
quels qu'ils soient.

835
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,080
Nous avons besoin de beaucoup

836
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,080
d'ouvrage pour encadrer les

837
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,080
consultations, période de

838
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,080
renseignements et d'information.

839
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,080
>> The consultation process

840
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,040
right now needs to be frame and

841
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:09,040
organized, because it's a dart

842
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,040
on the wall. It doesn't make

843
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,040
sense the way we are proceeding.

844
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,040
We need to have the frame of

845
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,040
reference to do proper

846
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:27,040
consultations.

847
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,040
Je serai disponible pour

848
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,040
répondre à vos questions après

849
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,040
l'Assemblée. Merci, Monsieur le

850
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,040
Maître, de m'avoir donné

851
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,040
l'opportunité de m'exprimer à ce

852
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,040
sujet.

853
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,040
>> Councillor Cowan? Councillor

854
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Stork, you would like to -- it's

855
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,040
unfortunate that you find a lot

856
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,040
of these items funny, Mister

857
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,040
Mayor. This is not a funny

858
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,040
situation. I didn't want to go

859
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,040
into the muck.

860
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,040
>> Excuse me, Councillor Stork?

861
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,040
>> You heard exactly what I

862
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,040
said. I do want to go into the

863
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,040
-- muck

864
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,040
>> Councillor Stork?

865
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,040
>> Could you repeat what you

866
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,000
just said? I find it a little

867
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,000
surprising.

868
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,000
>> It's a bit all that you're

869
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,000
laughing during this.

870
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,000
>> Am I laughing? I'm not

871
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,000
laughing, Councillor. Stuart

872
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000
you're not here to reprimand

873
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,000
other peoples behaviour, that is

874
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,000
not your role. Councillor Stork

875
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,000
-- the chair of this meeting

876
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,000
will decide on the quorum. It is

877
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,000
the chair's job to decide on

878
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,000
decorum, not yours. So please

879
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,000
don't overstepped your bounds.

880
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,000
Now proceed with your statement

881
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,000
please, sir.

882
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
>> Very simple. Overstepping of

883
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,000
bounds. I wasn't going to go

884
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,000
into the muck, but at least six

885
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,000
lies in the opening statement.

886
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000
At least six. You will go and

887
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,000
say check the facts, look at the

888
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,000
screens. Okay, I called him out

889
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,000
before and there was at least

890
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,000
six. And I'm truly getting tired

891
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,000
of this do nothing, clean

892
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,000
council, play the victim. And I

893
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,000
think that starting to go

894
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,000
around. Anyhow, this is what I

895
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,000
want to say. Bonjour à tous. Je

896
00:41:01,060 --> 00:41:02,060
prends l'intérêt de cette

897
00:41:02,060 --> 00:41:03,060
occasion pour parler non

898
00:41:03,060 --> 00:41:04,060
seulement de la résolution

899
00:41:04,060 --> 00:41:05,060
présentée aujourd'hui, mais

900
00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:06,060
également des événements

901
00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:07,060
récents. Je voudrais d'abord

902
00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:10,060
dire que je pense, je peux

903
00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:11,060
ressentir l'angoisse dans cette

904
00:41:11,060 --> 00:41:13,060
salle en ce moment. C'est la

905
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:15,060
même angoisse que je ressens

906
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:16,060
personnellement depuis un

907
00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:20,060
certain temps maintenant. Cela

908
00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:21,060
étant dit, nous devons tous

909
00:41:21,060 --> 00:41:23,060
traverser ensemble ce temps

910
00:41:23,060 --> 00:41:27,060
troublé et déroutant. Lorsque

911
00:41:27,060 --> 00:41:29,060
les courriels ont commencé à

912
00:41:29,060 --> 00:41:32,060
arriver, j'ai eu un provenant du

913
00:41:32,060 --> 00:41:34,060
citoyen du district sept. Je

914
00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:36,060
suis sûr qu'elle regarde cette

915
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:37,060
réunion maintenant, mais elle

916
00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:38,060
est aussi dans la Chambre et je

917
00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:39,060
vous remercie d'avoir envoyé ce

918
00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:42,060
courriel. Nous nous sommes

919
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:43,060
rencontrés peu de temps après et

920
00:41:43,060 --> 00:41:45,060
avons eu une conversation

921
00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:46,060
constructive pendant que je

922
00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:47,060
répondais à toutes les questions

923
00:41:47,060 --> 00:41:51,060
le mieux que je pouvais. Et

924
00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:52,060
d'avoir clarifié une grande

925
00:41:52,060 --> 00:41:55,060
partie des informations qu'elle

926
00:41:55,060 --> 00:41:57,060
recevait. Avant de partir, je

927
00:41:57,060 --> 00:42:00,020
lui ai fait une promesse. La

928
00:42:00,020 --> 00:42:01,020
promesse que je ferai de mon

929
00:42:01,020 --> 00:42:02,020
mieux pour jeter les bases d'une

930
00:42:02,020 --> 00:42:07,020
solution définitive à la

931
00:42:08,020 --> 00:42:11,020
question de la forêt Fairview.

932
00:42:11,020 --> 00:42:13,020
Je suis également vraiment

933
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:14,020
bouleversée par l'inaction

934
00:42:14,020 --> 00:42:17,020
répétées de notre mère. Après de

935
00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:18,020
nombreuses demandes au cours des

936
00:42:18,020 --> 00:42:20,020
deux dernières années, nos

937
00:42:20,020 --> 00:42:22,020
demandes à son administration,

938
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:26,020
celle qui relève de lui,

939
00:42:26,020 --> 00:42:28,020
d'élaborer un plan d', avoir

940
00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:30,020
toutes les informations

941
00:42:30,020 --> 00:42:31,020
pertinentes pour que le conseil

942
00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:33,020
puisse les examiner et, plus

943
00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:35,020
important, partager avec tous

944
00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:38,020
les résidents de Pointe-Claire.

945
00:42:38,020 --> 00:42:39,020
Un seul membre du conseil n'a

946
00:42:39,020 --> 00:42:41,020
pas la capacité de faire une

947
00:42:41,020 --> 00:42:44,020
telle demande. Seul le maire le

948
00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:46,020
peu. Le pouvoir du Conseil

949
00:42:46,020 --> 00:42:47,020
réside dans son ombre. Le

950
00:42:47,020 --> 00:42:49,020
pouvoir du conseil, si la

951
00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:51,020
majorité d'entre eux d'accord,

952
00:42:51,020 --> 00:42:52,020
peut créer une résolution qui,

953
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:55,020
si elle est adoptée,

954
00:42:55,020 --> 00:42:56,020
l'administration est obligé de

955
00:42:56,020 --> 00:43:01,080
la suivre. Ainsi, la

956
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,080
(---)

957
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,080
de l'inaction du maire et ma

958
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:06,080
rencontre avec une citoyenne

959
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,080
locale m'a incité à prendre les

960
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,080
choses en main et d'informer mes

961
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,080
collègues conseillers que je

962
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,080
prépare une résolution qui

963
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,080
serait votée lors de la séance

964
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,080
de l'assemblée publique de

965
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,080
novembre.

966
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,080
>> Exactly what I said last

967
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,080
council meeting. La réalisation

968
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,080
que je présenterai cela

969
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:26,080
(inaudible)

970
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,080
. Ils abordent des éléments clés

971
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,080
tels que la valeur de la forêt

972
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,080
Fairview. Notre situation je

973
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,080
vais dire qu'en matière

974
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,080
d'appropriation. Les chances que

975
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,080
l'appropriation soit accepté par

976
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,080
le CMM. Pour nous, avoir cette

977
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,080
dette supplémentaire en tant que

978
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,080
municipalité, une évaluation

979
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,080
indépendante de la forêt

980
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,080
elle-même ainsi qu'une étude sur

981
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,080
l'effet de l'habitat naturel sur

982
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,080
la santé générale entre autres.

983
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,080
Une fois que cette information a

984
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,080
été compilée, nous partageons

985
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,080
ensuite cette information avec

986
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,080
tous les citoyens de

987
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,080
Pointe-Claire. Dans un forum

988
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,040
public avec des séances de

989
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,040
questions et réponses au cours

990
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,040
desquelles les informations

991
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,040
factuelles ont été fournis tel

992
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,040
que l'actuel éléphant dans la

993
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,040
pièce qui est combien ça nous

994
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,040
coûterait si on pouvait

995
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,040
l'exproprier?

996
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,040
>> Elephant in the room.

997
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,040
Quelle sera l'augmentation

998
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,040
annuelle des taxes aux

999
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,040
fonctionnaires au cours des 25

1000
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,040
prochaines années? Est-ce que ça

1001
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,040
représente 400 dollars, 500

1002
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,040
dollars, 600 dollars? Par année

1003
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,040
de plus que les augmentations

1004
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,040
normales pour les 25 prochaines

1005
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,040
années? C'est une des questions

1006
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,040
clés auxquelles il faut

1007
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,040
répondre. Je souhaite également

1008
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,040
qu'une telle discussion

1009
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,040
nécessiterait, comme l'a dit

1010
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,040
monsieur Bissonnette, référant à

1011
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,040
l'échelle de la ville, car il ne

1012
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,040
s'agit pas d'un achat de 25000

1013
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,040
dollars pour une table de

1014
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,040
ping-pong en béton. Il s'agit

1015
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,040
d'un achat compris entre 50 et

1016
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,040
175 millions de dollars. Il

1017
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,040
faudrait donc que tous les

1018
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,040
citoyens aient la possibilité de

1019
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,040
faire entendre leur voix. C'est

1020
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,000
ça, la démocratie. En référence

1021
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,000
à la résolution proposée devant

1022
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,000
moi en ce moment, cette

1023
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,000
résolution n'est rien d'autre

1024
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,000
qu'une

1025
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,000
(---)

1026
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,000
politique. Elle est ciblée,

1027
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,000
criblé de déclaration dont

1028
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,000
l'exactitude doit être vérifié

1029
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,000
et n'a pas de voie à suivre

1030
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,000
clair. Cela a, tandis je

1031
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,000
n'attendrai pas cette,

1032
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,000
résolution je travaillerai avec

1033
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,000
diligence avec mes collègues

1034
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,000
conseillers et le maire, s'il

1035
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,000
choisit de faire partie de la

1036
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,000
résolution.

1037
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,000
>> Hello to all. I'd like to

1038
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,000
take this opportunity to not

1039
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,000
only speak about the resolution

1040
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,000
being presented today, but also

1041
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,000
that recent events. I would

1042
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,000
first like to say that I can

1043
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,000
truly feel the angled in this

1044
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,000
room right now. It is the same

1045
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,000
things that I'm personally

1046
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,000
feeling for sometime now on this

1047
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,000
issue, and everything in

1048
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,000
general. That being said, we all

1049
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
need to navigate through these

1050
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,000
troubled and confusing times

1051
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,000
together. When emails began

1052
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,000
coming and recently about the

1053
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,000
forest, I read one from a

1054
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,000
citizen in district seven, my

1055
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,060
district. I'm sure she is

1056
00:46:00,060 --> 00:46:02,060
watching this meeting right now.

1057
00:46:02,060 --> 00:46:04,060
And I think she is actually in

1058
00:46:04,060 --> 00:46:06,060
this room. We met shortly

1059
00:46:06,060 --> 00:46:07,060
thereafter and had a

1060
00:46:07,060 --> 00:46:09,060
constructive conversation, as I

1061
00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:10,060
answered all of your questions

1062
00:46:10,060 --> 00:46:12,060
to the best of my ability. We

1063
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:14,060
thanked each other there for

1064
00:46:14,060 --> 00:46:15,060
clarifying a lot of the

1065
00:46:15,060 --> 00:46:17,060
information we were receiving.

1066
00:46:17,060 --> 00:46:19,060
It was really and truly

1067
00:46:19,060 --> 00:46:20,060
beneficial. Before I left, I

1068
00:46:20,060 --> 00:46:22,060
made her a promise. A promise

1069
00:46:22,060 --> 00:46:24,060
that I would do the best of my

1070
00:46:24,060 --> 00:46:25,060
ability lay the groundwork to

1071
00:46:25,060 --> 00:46:28,060
finally address an issue of the

1072
00:46:28,060 --> 00:46:31,060
Fairview forest. I am also truly

1073
00:46:31,060 --> 00:46:33,060
upset by the repeated inactions

1074
00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:34,060
of our mayor after numerous

1075
00:46:34,060 --> 00:46:36,060
requests over the last two years

1076
00:46:36,060 --> 00:46:38,060
to instruct his administration,

1077
00:46:38,060 --> 00:46:41,060
the one that reports to him as a

1078
00:46:41,060 --> 00:46:43,060
mayor's responsibility, to put

1079
00:46:43,060 --> 00:46:44,060
together a plan that addresses

1080
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:46,060
all relevant information for

1081
00:46:46,060 --> 00:46:48,060
Council to review, and more

1082
00:46:48,060 --> 00:46:50,060
importantly, to be shared with

1083
00:46:50,060 --> 00:46:51,060
all of the residents of

1084
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:53,060
Pointe-Claire. A single member

1085
00:46:53,060 --> 00:46:55,060
of Council does not have the

1086
00:46:55,060 --> 00:46:57,060
ability to make such a request

1087
00:46:57,060 --> 00:46:58,060
as Councillor Bissonnette

1088
00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:00,020
mentioned. Only the mayor does.

1089
00:47:00,020 --> 00:47:03,020
The power of Council lies in its

1090
00:47:03,020 --> 00:47:05,020
numbers. The power of Council,

1091
00:47:05,020 --> 00:47:06,020
if a majority of them agree, can

1092
00:47:06,020 --> 00:47:09,020
create a resolution. That is our

1093
00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:11,020
only way of pushing items

1094
00:47:11,020 --> 00:47:12,020
through our administration. If

1095
00:47:12,020 --> 00:47:15,020
we pass a resolution, the

1096
00:47:15,020 --> 00:47:16,020
administration is obliged to

1097
00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:19,020
follow. We do not have single

1098
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:21,020
power. This, the combination of

1099
00:47:21,020 --> 00:47:23,020
both the mayors inactions and my

1100
00:47:23,020 --> 00:47:25,020
meeting with a local citizen

1101
00:47:25,020 --> 00:47:26,020
prompted me to take charge and

1102
00:47:26,020 --> 00:47:28,020
advise my fellow councillors

1103
00:47:28,020 --> 00:47:29,020
awhile back that I will be

1104
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:30,020
putting out resolution to be

1105
00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:32,020
voted upon at the November

1106
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:35,020
public meeting. Transparent, I

1107
00:47:35,020 --> 00:47:37,020
said it last time. And all of a

1108
00:47:37,020 --> 00:47:38,020
sudden this pops out of the blue

1109
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:41,020
on a special meeting. The

1110
00:47:41,020 --> 00:47:42,020
resolution that I will be

1111
00:47:42,020 --> 00:47:44,020
presenting will be all

1112
00:47:44,020 --> 00:47:45,020
encompassing. It will address

1113
00:47:45,020 --> 00:47:47,020
key items such as the value of

1114
00:47:47,020 --> 00:47:49,020
the Fairview forest. Our legal

1115
00:47:49,020 --> 00:47:50,020
position in terms of

1116
00:47:50,020 --> 00:47:53,020
expropriation. The chances at

1117
00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:54,020
expropriation would be accepted

1118
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:56,020
by the CMM. Can we absorb this

1119
00:47:56,020 --> 00:47:58,020
additional debt as a

1120
00:47:58,020 --> 00:48:00,080
municipality? At the average

1121
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,080
value we couldn't, we have to

1122
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,080
look for some other methodology

1123
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,080
or going to the provincial

1124
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,080
government and asking them what

1125
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,080
we can do. An independent

1126
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,080
assessment of the forest itself,

1127
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,080
as well as other sources of

1128
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,080
revenue if we can't pay it all

1129
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:14,080
by ourselves. Who can we go

1130
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,080
reach out to? None of that has

1131
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,080
been done. As well as a study on

1132
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,080
the effect of natural habitats

1133
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,080
on ones general health amongst

1134
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,080
other items that we need to

1135
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,080
research and bring together and

1136
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,080
compile. Once this information

1137
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,080
is compiled, then we share this

1138
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:32,080
information with all of the

1139
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,080
citizens of Pointe-Claire, in a

1140
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,080
public forum with Q&A sessions

1141
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,080
in which factual information has

1142
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,080
been provided, such as the

1143
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,080
current elephant in the room,

1144
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,080
which we never touch upon and

1145
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,080
which our mayor never touched

1146
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,080
upon but is a critical element.

1147
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,080
How much will it cost? If we can

1148
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:53,080
expropriate, what will be the

1149
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,080
yearly increase in property

1150
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,080
taxes for the next 25 years?

1151
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,080
Will it be 400? 500? 600? I

1152
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,040
don't know. I've made my own

1153
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,040
assessments and I've shared

1154
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,040
them. But we need this from an

1155
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,040
independent person. That is a

1156
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,040
key evil -- for the season

1157
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,040
spyware of. So what is it? Four,

1158
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,040
five, six, two, eight? Beyond

1159
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,040
our normal tax increases, this

1160
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,040
is one of the key questions that

1161
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,040
needs and must be addressed. I

1162
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,040
also support such a decision

1163
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,040
that would require City-wide

1164
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,040
referendums, as this is not a

1165
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,040
25,000 dollar purchase for a

1166
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,040
concrete ping-pong table. This

1167
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,040
is a purchase between 50 and 100

1168
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,040
$75 million. That will be

1169
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,040
required that all citizens have

1170
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,040
the ability for their voice to

1171
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,040
be heard. That is democracy. In

1172
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,040
reference to this proposed

1173
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,040
resolution in front of me right

1174
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,040
now, this resolution is nothing

1175
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,040
but political posturing. It is

1176
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,040
riddled with statements that

1177
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,040
need to be vetted for accuracy,

1178
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,040
the glee has to be vetted and

1179
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,040
has no clear path forward. What

1180
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,040
I just told you is what I

1181
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,040
believe is the clear path

1182
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,040
forward. We need to discuss, and

1183
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,000
we need to discuss with

1184
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,000
information in hand, we need to

1185
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,000
discuss with all of the facts

1186
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,000
and then together we can have

1187
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,000
open ends reminded discussions.

1188
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,000
We need to hear from the

1189
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,000
citizens. There is no question

1190
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,000
about, it no question about it.

1191
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,000
That being said, I will not

1192
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,000
support this resolution, but

1193
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,000
will be working diligently with

1194
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,000
fellow councillors and the mayor

1195
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,000
if you chooses to be part of the

1196
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,000
solution. Thank you.

1197
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,000
>> Councillor Cowan?

1198
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,000
>> Thank you. I don't quite

1199
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,000
understand why the mayor is

1200
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,000
interested in public

1201
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,000
consultations. He made it very

1202
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,000
clear at the beginning in his

1203
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,000
open comments he's already made

1204
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,000
up his mind. So if he's already

1205
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,000
made up his mind, what does he

1206
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,000
need to hear from you? It's

1207
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,000
pretty clear that the public

1208
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,000
consultations, the way they're

1209
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,000
going to be structured if staff

1210
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,000
is involved, they have to

1211
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,000
provide you with factual

1212
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,000
information. It can be a

1213
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,000
political meeting, it's got to

1214
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,000
be you are given factual

1215
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,000
information, you think about it,

1216
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,060
you provide your comments based

1217
00:51:00,060 --> 00:51:01,060
on facts. That doesn't seem to

1218
00:51:01,060 --> 00:51:04,060
be what the mayor has in mind.

1219
00:51:04,060 --> 00:51:06,060
It is apparent to me that Mayor

1220
00:51:06,060 --> 00:51:08,060
Thomas much prefers to freestyle

1221
00:51:08,060 --> 00:51:10,060
in opposition, and to accept the

1222
00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:11,060
heavy responsibility of

1223
00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:13,060
governing. Even this resolution,

1224
00:51:13,060 --> 00:51:15,060
he seems to be proposing, he is

1225
00:51:15,060 --> 00:51:17,060
in reality just a gesture

1226
00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:19,060
designed to lend him back in the

1227
00:51:19,060 --> 00:51:20,060
comparable and familiar

1228
00:51:20,060 --> 00:51:21,060
territory of opposition,

1229
00:51:21,060 --> 00:51:23,060
responsible for nothing but

1230
00:51:23,060 --> 00:51:25,060
complaining. In the Facebook

1231
00:51:25,060 --> 00:51:27,060
post, and his opening remarks

1232
00:51:27,060 --> 00:51:29,060
where he explains his decision

1233
00:51:29,060 --> 00:51:31,060
to call the special meeting, he

1234
00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:32,060
lists the many options Council

1235
00:51:32,060 --> 00:51:34,060
has in response to his political

1236
00:51:34,060 --> 00:51:36,060
temper tantrum. Not one of them

1237
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:39,060
was to accept the resolution he

1238
00:51:39,060 --> 00:51:42,060
drafted. So, Mayor Thomas has

1239
00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:43,060
abused his power to call a

1240
00:51:43,060 --> 00:51:44,060
special meeting of Council so

1241
00:51:44,060 --> 00:51:46,060
that he can force a vote on a

1242
00:51:46,060 --> 00:51:48,060
resolution he is counting on

1243
00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:50,060
will fail. In what world does

1244
00:51:50,060 --> 00:51:55,060
that make any sense at all? Dans

1245
00:51:56,060 --> 00:51:58,060
le même poste sur Facebook, le

1246
00:51:58,060 --> 00:51:59,060
maire se plaint une fois de plus

1247
00:51:59,060 --> 00:52:01,020
de n'avoir que très peu de

1248
00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:02,020
pouvoir lors de sa sale voix au

1249
00:52:02,020 --> 00:52:04,020
sein du conseil et le pouvoir de

1250
00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:05,020
convoquer des réunions

1251
00:52:05,020 --> 00:52:07,020
extraordinaires selon ses

1252
00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:10,020
caprices. C'est illogique que la

1253
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:12,020
loi soigneusement élaborés qui

1254
00:52:12,020 --> 00:52:13,020
sutures le gouvernement

1255
00:52:13,020 --> 00:52:15,020
municipal dans notre province

1256
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:17,020
crée un maire essentiellement

1257
00:52:17,020 --> 00:52:19,020
dépourvu de pouvoirs. Comment

1258
00:52:19,020 --> 00:52:24,020
ça? C'est absurde! Le maire

1259
00:52:24,020 --> 00:52:25,020
Thomas n'a tout simplement

1260
00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:26,020
aucune idée de la nature de la

1261
00:52:26,020 --> 00:52:27,020
fonction qu'il occupe et de la

1262
00:52:27,020 --> 00:52:29,020
manière d'exercer ses

1263
00:52:29,020 --> 00:52:31,020
responsabilités. Pour compenser,

1264
00:52:31,020 --> 00:52:33,020
il s'en plaint de ne pouvoir

1265
00:52:33,020 --> 00:52:34,020
rien faire d'autre que les

1266
00:52:34,020 --> 00:52:36,020
gestes essentiellement

1267
00:52:36,020 --> 00:52:38,020
symbolique, tels que la

1268
00:52:38,020 --> 00:52:39,020
convocation d'une réunion

1269
00:52:39,020 --> 00:52:41,020
extraordinaire pour le vote

1270
00:52:41,020 --> 00:52:46,020
qu'il sait qu'il perdra.

1271
00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:49,020
>> Because as been pointed out

1272
00:52:49,020 --> 00:52:51,020
by several of my colleagues in

1273
00:52:51,020 --> 00:52:53,020
his grave weaknesses in fact

1274
00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:55,020
extending even to libel. No

1275
00:52:55,020 --> 00:52:56,020
councillor can vote to approve

1276
00:52:56,020 --> 00:52:57,020
this resolution without at the

1277
00:52:57,020 --> 00:53:00,080
same time requiring our city to

1278
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,080
officially make unsubstantiated

1279
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,080
and dubious assertions, which

1280
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,080
have all the or a knot of truth

1281
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,080
but of spin. I Councillor must

1282
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,080
ensure that they are properly

1283
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:11,080
informed before casting their

1284
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,080
vote. This statements in the

1285
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,080
preamble are presented as being

1286
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,080
factual, but they are without

1287
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,080
any substantiation. Nothing has

1288
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,080
provided us to substantiate

1289
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,080
those absorptions. If the mayor

1290
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,080
has bothered to pass -- as any

1291
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,080
responsible person would have

1292
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,080
done, they would have

1293
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,080
substantiated the assertions

1294
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,080
with evidence, if they could.

1295
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,080
Suggested false statements be

1296
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,080
withdrawn, and would definitely

1297
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,080
have taken a position against

1298
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,080
statements that are libellous in

1299
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:42,080
nature or could very well be

1300
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,080
used against the city in court.

1301
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,080
But this mayor, he doesn't give

1302
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,080
up -- he wants to be a hero in

1303
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,080
opposition. He has what it takes

1304
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,080
and he has no desire to actually

1305
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,080
govern. That would require a

1306
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,080
willingness to listen and to

1307
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,080
adjust based on what he's heard.

1308
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,040
He can do another. But that

1309
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,040
leaves the batter of this

1310
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,040
resolution before us, which has

1311
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:09,040
serious shortcomings. Elle se

1312
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,040
caractérise de graves lacunes et

1313
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,040
détourne attention de la réalité

1314
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,040
à savoir que ce conseil, et je

1315
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,040
pense que je puisse agir comme

1316
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,040
porte-parole au nom de tous mes

1317
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,040
collègues, souhaite tous, sans

1318
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:21,040
exception, un avenir durable

1319
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,040
pour notre ville. Qui perpétuera

1320
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,040
le caractère spécial qui fait de

1321
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,040
notre communauté un endroit où

1322
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,040
il est si agréable de vivre.

1323
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:32,040
Nous reconnaissons la nécessité

1324
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,040
de faire des sacrifices pour

1325
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,040
réaliser cet avenir, ainsi que

1326
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,040
la nécessité de consulter nos

1327
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:39,040
citoyens pour mieux comprendre

1328
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,040
les sacrifices qui sont

1329
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,040
eux-mêmes prêts à faire pour

1330
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,040
actualiser un avenir durable.

1331
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,040
>> For these reasons, and

1332
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,040
because there's really no

1333
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,040
urgency in this decision, I move

1334
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,040
now that the vote on this

1335
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:55,040
resolution currently being

1336
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,040
debated be delayed three weeks

1337
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,040
to the next regular meeting of

1338
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,000
Council on November 5th, in

1339
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,000
order to give the staff the time

1340
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,000
they need to properly vet its

1341
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,000
language for accuracy,

1342
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,000
pertinent, and legal risk, and

1343
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,000
to give Council the opportunity

1344
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,000
to ensure the resolution

1345
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,000
addresses the need for evidence

1346
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,000
based public consultations on

1347
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,000
the future of the Fairview

1348
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,000
forest. Together with the

1349
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,000
sacrifices citizens are willing

1350
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,000
to make in order to bring about

1351
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:25,000
the future they desire. So I

1352
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,000
move that we delay this vote

1353
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,000
three weeks, to the next regular

1354
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,000
meeting.

1355
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,000
>> Do I have a seconder?

1356
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,000
>> Eric Stork, district seven.

1357
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,000
>> All in favour?

1358
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,000
- Juste un instant.

1359
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,000
(inaudible)

1360
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,000
>> We should vote.

1361
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,000
>> This is flying by the seat of

1362
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,000
our pants, or are we going to

1363
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,060
vote on? This we called for a

1364
00:56:00,060 --> 00:56:03,060
vote, do I have a seconder?

1365
00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:04,060
>> There's a mover, there's a

1366
00:56:04,060 --> 00:56:05,060
seconder.

1367
00:56:05,060 --> 00:56:08,060
>> So all in favour?

1368
00:56:08,060 --> 00:56:10,060
>> Of differing?

1369
00:56:10,060 --> 00:56:11,060
>> Of differing. All in favour

1370
00:56:11,060 --> 00:56:16,060
of Councillor Cowan motion.

1371
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:20,060
Those against?

1372
00:56:20,060 --> 00:56:23,060
Juste un instant.

1373
00:56:30,060 --> 00:56:32,060
>> Going back to 6.1, we are

1374
00:56:32,060 --> 00:56:36,060
back at 6.1.

1375
00:56:36,060 --> 00:56:38,060
>> Councillor Tremblay, I'm so

1376
00:56:38,060 --> 00:56:39,060
sorry.

1377
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:41,060
>> Not a problem. So, in my

1378
00:56:41,060 --> 00:56:43,060
commentary, I would just like to

1379
00:56:43,060 --> 00:56:45,060
address my fellow councillors

1380
00:56:45,060 --> 00:56:46,060
and the comments that have been

1381
00:56:46,060 --> 00:56:47,060
made today. Some of the points

1382
00:56:47,060 --> 00:56:49,060
are well taken and I understand

1383
00:56:49,060 --> 00:56:52,060
your position vis-à-vis this.

1384
00:56:52,060 --> 00:56:54,060
What happens in my case is when

1385
00:56:54,060 --> 00:56:56,060
I have someone knocking on my

1386
00:56:56,060 --> 00:56:58,060
door from the City, delivering

1387
00:56:58,060 --> 00:57:01,020
me an envelope with a resolution

1388
00:57:01,020 --> 00:57:04,020
in that I have to vote on, or a

1389
00:57:04,020 --> 00:57:09,020
convening notice, Special

1390
00:57:09,020 --> 00:57:10,020
meeting, my assumption, which

1391
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:11,020
may be naive, Mister assume that

1392
00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:12,020
it's been vetted and gone

1393
00:57:12,020 --> 00:57:13,020
through a procedure that's

1394
00:57:13,020 --> 00:57:14,020
acceptable to the

1395
00:57:14,020 --> 00:57:15,020
administration. Avis de

1396
00:57:15,020 --> 00:57:16,020
convocation, séance

1397
00:57:16,020 --> 00:57:19,020
extraordinaire.

1398
00:57:19,020 --> 00:57:21,020
Correct me if I'm incorrect,

1399
00:57:21,020 --> 00:57:23,020
there are no additional legal

1400
00:57:23,020 --> 00:57:24,020
notes that point to anything

1401
00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:28,020
that was incongruous or not

1402
00:57:29,020 --> 00:57:31,020
taking into consideration the

1403
00:57:31,020 --> 00:57:32,020
comments that you've been

1404
00:57:32,020 --> 00:57:35,020
making. So when I looked at this

1405
00:57:35,020 --> 00:57:39,020
resolution, I read it, and what

1406
00:57:39,020 --> 00:57:42,020
I read when I look at the

1407
00:57:42,020 --> 00:57:45,020
whereas sections and what is

1408
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:47,020
what we are resolving on is an

1409
00:57:47,020 --> 00:57:50,020
argument made by the mayor, in

1410
00:57:50,020 --> 00:57:53,020
this case, on holding public

1411
00:57:53,020 --> 00:57:55,020
consultation process for natural

1412
00:57:55,020 --> 00:57:58,020
spaces and green spaces. And

1413
00:57:58,020 --> 00:58:01,080
that's what I focus on. And what

1414
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,080
I look at when I am having this

1415
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,080
document in front of me.

1416
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,080
Unfortunately, as the Mayor

1417
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,080
knows, I wasn't thrilled to see

1418
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,080
the other section that was a

1419
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,080
part of this resolution, which

1420
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,080
was the height of buildings. But

1421
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,080
we will beat up each other later

1422
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,080
on that one. And so I have to

1423
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,080
assume that what I am looking at

1424
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,080
has been vetted and accepted

1425
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,080
through the normal channels.

1426
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,080
Now, if that isn't the case, it

1427
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,080
would be important Ce sera

1428
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:38,080
important pour quelqu'un de

1429
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,080
l'administration de me dire

1430
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,080
maintenant que ce document-là,

1431
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,080
ces procédures n'ont pas été

1432
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,080
suivies et que ils y auraient un

1433
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:49,080
problème à ce niveau-là.

1434
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,080
>> We will not give legal

1435
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,040
opinion tonight but, you know,

1436
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,040
the mayor can request a

1437
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,040
resolution and he requested a

1438
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,040
special meeting for tonight.

1439
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,040
Merci. >> So, again, speaking to

1440
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,040
my fellow councillors, I have

1441
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,040
listened to your comments and

1442
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,040
many of the comments that you

1443
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:23,040
have made have been on many

1444
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,040
other things except what's being

1445
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,040
asked of this particular

1446
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,040
resolution, which is whether or

1447
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,040
not to accept a public

1448
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,040
consultation event, based on

1449
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,040
natural spaces, green spaces,

1450
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,040
and building types. And that is

1451
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,040
all I'm focused on right now. I

1452
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,040
have, as you know, in my

1453
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,040
speaking with you and as the

1454
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:46,040
Mayor knows in speaking with

1455
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,040
him, I have disagreements with

1456
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:52,040
the mayor on a number of things.

1457
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,040
And in looking at the resolution

1458
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:55,040
that he presented here, I do

1459
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,040
have some difficulties. I

1460
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,040
prepared a written statement

1461
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,000
here that I thought I would be

1462
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,000
able to speak to separately and

1463
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,000
in context of what my views are

1464
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,000
on this resolution, but it's

1465
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:10,000
difficult when though there's

1466
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,000
all this different information

1467
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,000
coming in. You feel the need to

1468
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,000
answer everything else that's

1469
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:19,000
being brought up here in the

1470
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,000
discussions. So, if you will

1471
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,000
allow me, I will just read a

1472
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,000
quick statement that I made

1473
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,000
earlier and in this case, I'm

1474
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,000
addressing the mayor on this

1475
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
particular resolution. And doing

1476
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,000
my best to stay within the

1477
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,000
parameters of what is being

1478
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:39,000
discussed. La nécessité d'une

1479
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,000
consultation publique sur les

1480
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,000
sujets tels que les espaces

1481
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:44,000
naturels et vers l'est plus

1482
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,000
vraiment nécessaire selon moi.

1483
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,000
Nous en sommes aujourd'hui au

1484
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,000
point où nous n'avons pas le

1485
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,000
choix que de sauvegarder et

1486
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,000
élargir les espaces naturels

1487
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,000
dans nos villes, si nous voulons

1488
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,000
agir sérieusement sur la

1489
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,060
question de biodiversité

1490
01:01:01,060 --> 01:01:02,060
d'aujourd'hui et faire face aux

1491
01:01:02,060 --> 01:01:04,060
changements climatiques. C'est

1492
01:01:04,060 --> 01:01:08,060
aussi simple que ça pour moi.

1493
01:01:08,060 --> 01:01:10,060
D'après mes échanges avec les

1494
01:01:10,060 --> 01:01:12,060
citoyens, et selon nos sondages

1495
01:01:12,060 --> 01:01:13,060
internes, je pense que la

1496
01:01:13,060 --> 01:01:14,060
plupart des résidents sont

1497
01:01:14,060 --> 01:01:16,060
d'accord avec moi. Quant à la

1498
01:01:16,060 --> 01:01:20,060
hauteur de Bettman,

1499
01:01:20,060 --> 01:01:24,060
permettez-moi de faire peut-être

1500
01:01:24,060 --> 01:01:27,060
une explication basée sur les

1501
01:01:27,060 --> 01:01:28,060
(---)

1502
01:01:28,060 --> 01:01:30,060
. Les oiseaux. Le faucon

1503
01:01:30,060 --> 01:01:31,060
Pellerin, autrefois, et là je

1504
01:01:31,060 --> 01:01:33,060
vous adresse directement,

1505
01:01:33,060 --> 01:01:35,060
Monsieur le Maire, autrefois

1506
01:01:35,060 --> 01:01:36,060
menacées d'extinction, est un

1507
01:01:36,060 --> 01:01:38,060
exemple très réussie de la faune

1508
01:01:38,060 --> 01:01:39,060
urbaine dans une grande partie

1509
01:01:39,060 --> 01:01:42,060
de son nerf de répartition,

1510
01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:44,060
profitant des au bâtiment comme

1511
01:01:44,060 --> 01:01:47,060
site de nidification et d'une

1512
01:01:47,060 --> 01:01:48,060
abondance de proies telles que

1513
01:01:48,060 --> 01:01:50,060
les fusions et les canards.

1514
01:01:50,060 --> 01:01:53,060
D'autre part, des recherches

1515
01:01:53,060 --> 01:01:56,060
menées par des scientifiques de

1516
01:01:56,060 --> 01:01:57,060
(---)

1517
01:01:57,060 --> 01:01:58,060
ont mis au jour de nouvelles

1518
01:01:58,060 --> 01:01:59,060
preuves alarmantes selon

1519
01:01:59,060 --> 01:02:00,020
lesquelles les collisions avec

1520
01:02:00,020 --> 01:02:03,020
les bâtiments tuent beaucoup

1521
01:02:03,020 --> 01:02:04,020
d'oiseaux, tue beaucoup plus

1522
01:02:04,020 --> 01:02:06,020
d'oiseaux qu'on ne l'estimait

1523
01:02:06,020 --> 01:02:10,020
auparavant. Bien plus que ce 1

1524
01:02:11,020 --> 01:02:13,020
milliard par année rien qu'aux

1525
01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:14,020
États-Unis. Quelle que soit la

1526
01:02:14,020 --> 01:02:16,020
hauteur du bâtiment. Comme on

1527
01:02:16,020 --> 01:02:18,020
peut le voir, la hauteur est

1528
01:02:18,020 --> 01:02:19,020
parfois une bonne chose, parfois

1529
01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:21,020
une mauvaise. Comme la plupart

1530
01:02:21,020 --> 01:02:23,020
des gens, je préfère moins

1531
01:02:23,020 --> 01:02:24,020
d'étages, mais tout dépend du

1532
01:02:24,020 --> 01:02:27,020
contexte. Cependant, Monsieur le

1533
01:02:27,020 --> 01:02:29,020
Maire, si vous avez encore

1534
01:02:29,020 --> 01:02:32,020
besoin de recueillir l'avis du

1535
01:02:32,020 --> 01:02:34,020
public sur ces deux questions

1536
01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:35,020
pour en arriver à une décision

1537
01:02:35,020 --> 01:02:37,020
vous-même, je suis tout à fait

1538
01:02:37,020 --> 01:02:40,020
disposés à vous aider en votant

1539
01:02:40,020 --> 01:02:44,020
pour. The need for public

1540
01:02:44,020 --> 01:02:45,020
consultation on subjects like

1541
01:02:45,020 --> 01:02:46,020
natural green spaces is no

1542
01:02:46,020 --> 01:02:47,020
longer really necessary, as far

1543
01:02:47,020 --> 01:02:49,020
as I'm concerned. We are at the

1544
01:02:49,020 --> 01:02:51,020
point today where we have no

1545
01:02:51,020 --> 01:02:53,020
choice but to Save and expand

1546
01:02:53,020 --> 01:02:54,020
nature and our lid and urban

1547
01:02:54,020 --> 01:02:56,020
living spaces if we're going to

1548
01:02:56,020 --> 01:02:57,020
seriously act on the

1549
01:02:57,020 --> 01:02:59,020
biodiversity issues of today and

1550
01:02:59,020 --> 01:03:03,080
deal with climate change. It's

1551
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:04,080
as simple as that, in my

1552
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,080
opinion. In my exchanges with

1553
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:07,080
citizens and according to our

1554
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,080
internal city surveys, I think

1555
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,080
most residents would agree. As

1556
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,080
for the height of buildings,

1557
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,080
Mister Mayor, the peregrine

1558
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:16,080
falcon once threatened

1559
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:17,080
extinction is a highly

1560
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:18,080
successful example of urban life

1561
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,080
in much of its range, taking

1562
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,080
advantage of tall buildings as

1563
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,080
nesting sites and an abundance

1564
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,080
of pre such as pigeons and

1565
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,080
ducks. On the underhand,

1566
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,080
research conducted by scientists

1567
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,080
at the American bird conservancy

1568
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:33,080
uncovered overwhelming evidence

1569
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:34,080
that building collisions are

1570
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,080
killing significantly more birds

1571
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,080
than previously estimated. Over

1572
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,080
one billion annually in the

1573
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:40,080
United States alone, regardless

1574
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,080
of height. As we can see

1575
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:44,080
sometimes height is good,

1576
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:45,080
sometimes height is bad. Like

1577
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,080
most people, I prefer fewer

1578
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,080
floors but it depends on the

1579
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,080
context. But Mister Mayor, if

1580
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,080
you still need further input

1581
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:55,080
from the public on both of these

1582
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,080
issues to arrive at a decision

1583
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,080
yourself, sure, I will

1584
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,040
accommodate you and vote in

1585
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,040
favour. So, part of what I'm

1586
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,040
seeing here is in some sense,

1587
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:09,040
we're both wasting our time.

1588
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:10,040
Because many of the issues are

1589
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,040
well known. And by the same

1590
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,040
token, it's important to honour

1591
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,040
democracy and to allow the

1592
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:17,040
population to have an

1593
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,040
opportunity to speak. So, for me

1594
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:20,040
to sign in front of something

1595
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,040
like this, again, a document

1596
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,040
that I think has been, in my

1597
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,040
opinion, made its way to my desk

1598
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,040
from the regular procedures,

1599
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,040
would indicate that it's a

1600
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:32,040
document that I need to respond

1601
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,040
to, and I am responding to on

1602
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,040
the basis of what I believe and

1603
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,040
what I think is necessary and

1604
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,040
right for us to do as a city.

1605
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,040
Much of the discussion has been

1606
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,040
on the value of the forest and

1607
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,040
everything that has to do with

1608
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,040
Fairview forest. But in effect,

1609
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:51,040
the question asked here is just

1610
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,040
a little more precise. And I can

1611
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:55,040
see and understand, from your

1612
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:56,040
comments, that it's inflammatory

1613
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,040
as well to some degree, and I

1614
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:00,000
understand the difficulties that

1615
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,000
you might have, fellow

1616
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,000
councillors, in being able to

1617
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,000
digest all of this because it

1618
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,000
hasn't been an easy three years.

1619
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,000
But by the same token, we need

1620
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,000
to be able to understand the

1621
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,000
views and opinions of others,

1622
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,000
and if the mayor feels that it's

1623
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,000
important in his fifth case to

1624
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:20,000
get for the clarification, I

1625
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,000
don't particularly see harm in

1626
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,000
doing that. That's all I have

1627
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,000
for now.

1628
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,000
>> Thank you, Councillor

1629
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,000
Tremblay. So as you can tell,

1630
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,000
Councillor Tremblay and I

1631
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,000
sometimes disagree on the height

1632
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,000
of buildings. So, we've moved to

1633
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,000
question period. Well said. Oh,

1634
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,000
did we not vote? I thought we

1635
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,000
already voted. Oh, because I

1636
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,000
thought we had the amendment.

1637
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:43,000
Okay.

1638
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,000
>> This is the debate, now we

1639
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,000
can vote.

1640
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:46,000
>> All right, for 6.1, do I have

1641
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,000
a mover? I will be a mover.

1642
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,000
Already done, we're just going

1643
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,000
to have the vote? Okay, all

1644
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:55,000
those in favour of 6.1?

1645
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:04,060
All against?

1646
01:06:08,060 --> 01:06:12,060
Now question period? Okay. David

1647
01:06:12,060 --> 01:06:15,060
Johnson.

1648
01:06:30,060 --> 01:06:32,060
No, no, no.

1649
01:06:32,060 --> 01:06:35,060
[Inaudible]

1650
01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:41,060
(inaudible)

1651
01:06:44,060 --> 01:06:46,060
To reiterate that question,

1652
01:06:46,060 --> 01:06:47,060
which is a valid one, we are

1653
01:06:47,060 --> 01:06:50,060
only speaking to the Special

1654
01:06:50,060 --> 01:06:52,060
General meetings subject, which

1655
01:06:52,060 --> 01:06:55,060
is having a special consultation

1656
01:06:55,060 --> 01:06:57,060
or a public participation

1657
01:06:57,060 --> 01:06:59,060
process including the Fairview

1658
01:06:59,060 --> 01:07:00,020
forest, the public and private

1659
01:07:00,020 --> 01:07:03,020
green spaces, and building

1660
01:07:03,020 --> 01:07:04,020
height. So, that's what we are

1661
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:06,020
speaking to and nothing but that

1662
01:07:06,020 --> 01:07:08,020
in your question. So, it can't

1663
01:07:08,020 --> 01:07:10,020
go anything beyond that. Just

1664
01:07:10,020 --> 01:07:13,020
for everybody else's reference,

1665
01:07:13,020 --> 01:07:18,020
>> Can everybody hear me? David

1666
01:07:18,020 --> 01:07:20,020
Johnston, district one. First of

1667
01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:21,020
all, I would like to thank the

1668
01:07:21,020 --> 01:07:23,020
Mayor and Councillor Tremblay

1669
01:07:23,020 --> 01:07:25,020
for very explicitly at the

1670
01:07:25,020 --> 01:07:28,020
beginning of the meeting

1671
01:07:28,020 --> 01:07:30,020
encouraging citizens today to

1672
01:07:30,020 --> 01:07:32,020
make full voice of their

1673
01:07:32,020 --> 01:07:34,020
opinions, in the hope of having

1674
01:07:34,020 --> 01:07:37,020
some influence on the debate.

1675
01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:38,020
>> Closer a little to the mic,

1676
01:07:38,020 --> 01:07:40,020
Mr. Johnston. I can't hear you

1677
01:07:40,020 --> 01:07:44,020
that well. I want to hear him.

1678
01:07:44,020 --> 01:07:46,020
Excuse me, Councillor Cousineau.

1679
01:07:46,020 --> 01:07:48,020
That was a respectful comment

1680
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:49,020
because I could not, I'm sorry,

1681
01:07:49,020 --> 01:07:51,020
I respectfully comment because I

1682
01:07:51,020 --> 01:07:53,020
couldn't hear Mr. Johnston

1683
01:07:53,020 --> 01:07:55,020
speaking. I don't see what the

1684
01:07:55,020 --> 01:07:59,020
need for reprimand is.

1685
01:07:59,020 --> 01:08:00,080
>> Is that better?

1686
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:01,080
>> Yes.

1687
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:02,080
>> Okay, thank you.

1688
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:03,080
>> I was just saying that I

1689
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,080
wanted to make a point of

1690
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,080
thanking you and Councillor

1691
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:10,080
Tremblay for making this

1692
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:11,080
explicitly well-known at the

1693
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:12,080
beginning of the meeting that

1694
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,080
you encourage the citizens here

1695
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,080
today to give full expression to

1696
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,080
their opinions. With a view to

1697
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,080
influencing Council and

1698
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,080
influencing people in a debate.

1699
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,080
Like many people here, I am very

1700
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,080
happy to finally have seen a

1701
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,080
proposal for public

1702
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,080
consultations. But my hope was

1703
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,080
that Council would vote against

1704
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:39,080
this proposal and work more

1705
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,080
cooperatively to come back with

1706
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:43,080
a better plan, a more inclusive

1707
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,080
plan, one that would have a

1708
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,080
better chance of securing the

1709
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,080
participation of a broader cross

1710
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,080
section of the Pointe-Claire

1711
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,080
population. There are different

1712
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:57,080
ways that this could be

1713
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,080
accomplished. One of the options

1714
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,040
could see Council hire a

1715
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,040
consultant to help it randomly

1716
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:08,040
solicit, say, 50 households in

1717
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:09,040
each of the eight electoral

1718
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,040
districts for consultation.

1719
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,040
These households would receive

1720
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,040
an information package that

1721
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,040
would explain the policy

1722
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,040
challenges around the proposed

1723
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:23,040
new downtown West Island

1724
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,040
development from a variety of

1725
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,040
angles. Environmental, to be

1726
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,040
sure. But also fiscal,

1727
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,040
financial, economic, and social.

1728
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,040
Public meeting could be held so

1729
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,040
that people who had questions

1730
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:38,040
about the information document

1731
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,040
could get answers. But people

1732
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,040
would then be invited to respond

1733
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,040
to a series of questions and

1734
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,040
proposed scenarios privately,

1735
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:51,040
after the meeting. Whether by

1736
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,040
telephone, snail mail, or email.

1737
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,040
Not overly there on the spot. I

1738
01:09:56,040 --> 01:10:00,000
will explain why in a minute.

1739
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,000
The results of the consultation

1740
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,000
of this representative sample of

1741
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,000
the -- population would be

1742
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,000
revealed and could be revealed

1743
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:13,000
at a follow-up meeting, for any

1744
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:14,000
residents of Pointe-Claire,

1745
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,000
including the political actors

1746
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,000
elected or an elected could

1747
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:23,000
react. But there is a problem.

1748
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,000
We don't have all the

1749
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:26,000
information we need to put

1750
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,000
together a solid information

1751
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,000
package. We still have not hired

1752
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,000
a property evaluator to give us

1753
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,000
an estimated purchase price or

1754
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,000
expropriation price for the

1755
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:42,000
so-called Fairview forest. Or

1756
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,000
zone MU2. As a result of Bill

1757
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,000
39, which takes into

1758
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,000
consideration values of function

1759
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,000
of whether land is of a high

1760
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,000
ecological value or not. Plus,

1761
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,000
we still have not seen a revised

1762
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,000
development program, proposal,

1763
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:01,060
from Cadillac Fairview. Getting

1764
01:11:01,060 --> 01:11:03,060
one might require Pointe-Claire

1765
01:11:03,060 --> 01:11:05,060
and the Montréal metropolitan

1766
01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:07,060
community to lift at least

1767
01:11:07,060 --> 01:11:09,060
temporarily their interim

1768
01:11:09,060 --> 01:11:11,060
control bylaws in order to

1769
01:11:11,060 --> 01:11:13,060
permit Cadillac Fairview to

1770
01:11:13,060 --> 01:11:16,060
legally reengage in the debate.

1771
01:11:16,060 --> 01:11:21,060
So, this may take time. One

1772
01:11:23,060 --> 01:11:24,060
problem with this --

1773
01:11:24,060 --> 01:11:25,060
>> Mr. Johnston, I don't mean to

1774
01:11:25,060 --> 01:11:30,060
be rude but we have 23 people on

1775
01:11:30,060 --> 01:11:33,060
this list and I would like to

1776
01:11:33,060 --> 01:11:34,060
answer your question sooner as

1777
01:11:34,060 --> 01:11:36,060
opposed to later.

1778
01:11:36,060 --> 01:11:37,060
>> This proposal today only made

1779
01:11:37,060 --> 01:11:39,060
reference to the original

1780
01:11:39,060 --> 01:11:43,060
development proposal from

1781
01:11:43,060 --> 01:11:48,060
Cadillac Fairview six years ago.

1782
01:11:49,060 --> 01:11:51,060
>> Came to an agreement in the

1783
01:11:51,060 --> 01:11:53,060
fall of 2022 that would oblige

1784
01:11:53,060 --> 01:11:58,060
the company

1785
01:11:59,060 --> 01:12:02,020
-- so called Fairview forest.

1786
01:12:02,020 --> 01:12:03,020
Plus, the original proposal

1787
01:12:03,020 --> 01:12:06,020
called for a lot of office space

1788
01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:08,020
construction in this post COVID

1789
01:12:08,020 --> 01:12:11,020
era of hybrid work, I often

1790
01:12:11,020 --> 01:12:12,020
space vacancies, Fairview,

1791
01:12:12,020 --> 01:12:14,020
collective you must surely have

1792
01:12:14,020 --> 01:12:16,020
a different plan. We need to see

1793
01:12:16,020 --> 01:12:21,020
it. The reality is that the new

1794
01:12:22,020 --> 01:12:24,020
thinking -- town hall approach

1795
01:12:24,020 --> 01:12:26,020
to municipal public

1796
01:12:26,020 --> 01:12:27,020
consultations is that there are

1797
01:12:27,020 --> 01:12:29,020
not a good gauge of public

1798
01:12:29,020 --> 01:12:31,020
opinion. What's the evidence for

1799
01:12:31,020 --> 01:12:34,020
that? Here, I'm concluding. In

1800
01:12:34,020 --> 01:12:38,020
2017, the impetus pulling firm

1801
01:12:38,020 --> 01:12:40,020
found that 91% of Canadians said

1802
01:12:40,020 --> 01:12:41,020
that they would not leave their

1803
01:12:41,020 --> 01:12:43,020
house to participate in a

1804
01:12:43,020 --> 01:12:45,020
municipal town hall meeting. 55%

1805
01:12:45,020 --> 01:12:49,020
of respondents said, quote, a

1806
01:12:49,020 --> 01:12:51,020
few strong voices always

1807
01:12:51,020 --> 01:12:53,020
dominate the discussions,

1808
01:12:53,020 --> 01:12:56,020
unquote. And 38% said, quote, I

1809
01:12:56,020 --> 01:12:58,020
feel shy about expressing my

1810
01:12:58,020 --> 01:13:00,080
opinion in a public forum,

1811
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,080
unquote. The research is clear.

1812
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,080
People want to give their views

1813
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:06,080
privately, a different

1814
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,080
consultation model is needed

1815
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:10,080
than the one being presented

1816
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:15,080
here tonight. My question is,

1817
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,080
can you all work more

1818
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,080
cooperatively to agree on a

1819
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:21,080
better consultation plan than

1820
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:23,080
the one that was put forward

1821
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,080
tonight?

1822
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,080
>> I'm sure we can. I'm sure we

1823
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:29,080
can, Mr. Johnston. Thank you.

1824
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:30,080
>> Thank you.

1825
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,080
>> I'm happy to hear that the

1826
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,080
original proposal with Cadillac

1827
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:35,080
Fairview, the original proposal

1828
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,080
is no longer viable, in your

1829
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,080
opinion. I find that

1830
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:44,080
encouraging. And just to make

1831
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,080
reference to the democratic part

1832
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,080
of the process and listening to

1833
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:52,080
citizens, a large part of the

1834
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,080
motivation for calling this

1835
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,080
meeting was from, in fact, the

1836
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,080
editor of the 15 ten, who

1837
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:58,080
suggested in some of her

1838
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:03,040
writings that it's very hard to

1839
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,040
go through the entire process

1840
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,040
without even talking about

1841
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:09,040
public and private green spaces

1842
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,040
in Fairview forest. Let alone

1843
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:12,040
building height. If you haven't

1844
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,040
even talked about it, however

1845
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,040
you -- unnecessary or whatever

1846
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,040
skewered the result is, by not

1847
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,040
even putting it on your agenda,

1848
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:22,040
you are not taking seriously

1849
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,040
from other levels of government.

1850
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,040
We at least have to have the

1851
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,040
discussion. We at least have to

1852
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:29,040
have it in writing that we've

1853
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,040
had the discussion, in order for

1854
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,040
that whole subject matter to be

1855
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,040
viable at other levels of

1856
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:37,040
government. So, this is not

1857
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,040
irresponsible, it's responsible,

1858
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:39,040
what's going on here. And if we

1859
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,040
want to kick it around and alter

1860
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:42,040
it, that's fine. But if we have

1861
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,040
the discussion, that's the

1862
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:45,040
important part, in my opinion.

1863
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,040
To answer your question.

1864
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,040
>> Mister Mayor, just to correct

1865
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:54,040
the mistakes. The Cadillac

1866
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:55,040
Fairview, they did send a

1867
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:57,040
graphic image in error of

1868
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,040
development on you to, but

1869
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:00,000
they've never submitted any

1870
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,000
plans for the development on

1871
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,000
MU2.

1872
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:04,000
>> So, they've never submitted

1873
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,000
any plans for development on

1874
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,000
MU2? Okay, so how viable then is

1875
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,000
the lawsuit? If they've never

1876
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,000
submitted any plans.

1877
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,000
>> Correction, Council has never

1878
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:17,000
seen a plan.

1879
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:20,000
>> No, I said on MU2. I've seen

1880
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,000
stuff on --

1881
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,000
>> It's very interesting, what's

1882
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,000
going on here, folks. Okay,

1883
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:29,000
Philippe R A. C'est le pari.

1884
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,000
Philippe Paré. Pare.

1885
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,000
>> Good evening. Regarding the

1886
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,000
whole public meeting and, sorry,

1887
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:39,000
regarding the whole public

1888
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:40,000
meeting and everything in

1889
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,000
general, if we look at just in

1890
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,000
general this meeting or every

1891
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,000
other meeting we have in

1892
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,000
general, it's always been more

1893
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,000
elderly people than young

1894
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,000
adults. The big issue we have is

1895
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,000
most of us young adults, we

1896
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:56,000
basically rent and it's

1897
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,000
basically unlivable here. It's

1898
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,060
unsustainable and we are

1899
01:16:00,060 --> 01:16:02,060
struggling to get by. My big

1900
01:16:02,060 --> 01:16:03,060
question is, for public

1901
01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:07,060
meetings, there's very little

1902
01:16:07,060 --> 01:16:08,060
incentive for us young adults to

1903
01:16:08,060 --> 01:16:11,060
be able to actually do stuff

1904
01:16:11,060 --> 01:16:13,060
because we are, we don't have

1905
01:16:13,060 --> 01:16:14,060
time for this. I have to take

1906
01:16:14,060 --> 01:16:16,060
time off of my job to be able to

1907
01:16:16,060 --> 01:16:19,060
come here. For the future of,

1908
01:16:19,060 --> 01:16:24,060
like, the whole M MU1, MU2 it

1909
01:16:24,060 --> 01:16:25,060
needs to happen so that we are

1910
01:16:25,060 --> 01:16:27,060
actually able to participate and

1911
01:16:27,060 --> 01:16:29,060
have the feeling to want to

1912
01:16:29,060 --> 01:16:30,060
participate.

1913
01:16:30,060 --> 01:16:32,060
>> Okay, so there is some

1914
01:16:32,060 --> 01:16:33,060
discussion going on here. It's

1915
01:16:33,060 --> 01:16:35,060
an extraordinary meeting, so you

1916
01:16:35,060 --> 01:16:36,060
have to speak specifically to

1917
01:16:36,060 --> 01:16:39,060
the resolution, which is, we are

1918
01:16:39,060 --> 01:16:40,060
trying to have a consultation on

1919
01:16:40,060 --> 01:16:43,060
the Fairview forest and on the

1920
01:16:43,060 --> 01:16:45,060
height of buildings. However, I

1921
01:16:45,060 --> 01:16:46,060
will answer sort of what I think

1922
01:16:46,060 --> 01:16:49,060
you are alluding to. Fair

1923
01:16:49,060 --> 01:16:50,060
enough. I mean, to get the youth

1924
01:16:50,060 --> 01:16:52,060
out, to express themselves, it

1925
01:16:52,060 --> 01:16:53,060
is their future. Part of that is

1926
01:16:53,060 --> 01:16:58,060
up to the youth. Unfortunately,

1927
01:16:58,060 --> 01:17:00,020
I mean, the voter turnout, even

1928
01:17:00,020 --> 01:17:02,020
in most democratic processes,

1929
01:17:02,020 --> 01:17:03,020
it's only when people start to

1930
01:17:03,020 --> 01:17:04,020
get older that they start to

1931
01:17:04,020 --> 01:17:07,020
vote more and they take the

1932
01:17:07,020 --> 01:17:08,020
privilege of voting more

1933
01:17:08,020 --> 01:17:09,020
seriously, I guess. I don't know

1934
01:17:09,020 --> 01:17:10,020
what it is. Or they have the

1935
01:17:10,020 --> 01:17:12,020
luxury, which could also be the

1936
01:17:12,020 --> 01:17:14,020
answer. So, I have sort of

1937
01:17:14,020 --> 01:17:15,020
answer your question.

1938
01:17:15,020 --> 01:17:16,020
>> For the second question, more

1939
01:17:16,020 --> 01:17:18,020
specific.

1940
01:17:18,020 --> 01:17:20,020
>> Okay, specific to future

1941
01:17:20,020 --> 01:17:21,020
meetings.

1942
01:17:21,020 --> 01:17:24,020
>> No, to this meeting which is

1943
01:17:24,020 --> 01:17:27,020
-- this meeting is about having

1944
01:17:27,020 --> 01:17:29,020
consultation process specific to

1945
01:17:29,020 --> 01:17:31,020
the Fairview forest and the

1946
01:17:31,020 --> 01:17:34,020
height of buildings on MU1 and

1947
01:17:34,020 --> 01:17:36,020
MU2. And actually, the entire

1948
01:17:36,020 --> 01:17:37,020
city.

1949
01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:39,020
>> Okay, for that specifically,

1950
01:17:39,020 --> 01:17:41,020
for the whole meeting about the

1951
01:17:41,020 --> 01:17:43,020
future of the forest, could it

1952
01:17:43,020 --> 01:17:46,020
be possible to include

1953
01:17:46,020 --> 01:17:47,020
representatives of the

1954
01:17:47,020 --> 01:17:48,020
agglomeration, due to the fact

1955
01:17:48,020 --> 01:17:49,020
that they might be able to foot

1956
01:17:49,020 --> 01:17:54,020
part of the bill? And lay the

1957
01:17:54,020 --> 01:17:55,020
whole --

1958
01:17:55,020 --> 01:17:57,020
>> They can certainly attend.

1959
01:17:57,020 --> 01:17:58,020
Other members of the

1960
01:17:58,020 --> 01:17:59,020
agglomeration can certainly

1961
01:17:59,020 --> 01:18:02,080
attend, I would think.

1962
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,080
>> Thank you.

1963
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:07,080
>> Thank you. Gregory Fréchette?

1964
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:11,080
He left? Okay, Owen van he's

1965
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:16,080
broke? Okay, Norm Normand

1966
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:22,080
Lapointe? You defer. Susan

1967
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,080
Weaver?

1968
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,080
>> Okay, I wrote this before I

1969
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:37,080
heard anything else and we Susan

1970
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:38,080
Weaver, Pointe-Claire. After

1971
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:39,080
reading the resolution, I

1972
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,080
suggest the following. I'm just

1973
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,080
going to give two articles that

1974
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,080
you wrote. When you talk about

1975
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,080
the future of public and

1976
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,080
privately owned green spaces, I

1977
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,080
don't think you should include

1978
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,080
public spaces with this private

1979
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:55,080
property in your resolution. If

1980
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:59,080
you want to have a consultation

1981
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:01,040
about the C F properties, then

1982
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,040
it should be only about sea of

1983
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,040
properties. Public green spaces

1984
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:07,040
should be up for discussion, but

1985
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:10,040
not be an afterthought as it is

1986
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:12,040
in this first paragraph. And

1987
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:16,040
another paragraph I read was the

1988
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,040
2021 election is irrelevant

1989
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:21,040
because if you calculate the

1990
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,040
eligible voters to how many

1991
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,040
voted, then how many voted to

1992
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:27,040
save the forest, I would say

1993
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,040
that there were few. Your

1994
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,040
statement is incorrect. It does

1995
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:32,040
not, anyways, it does not focus

1996
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,040
on the forest but on your small

1997
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,040
victory. And furthermore, to

1998
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:39,040
write such a resolution, as you

1999
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,040
have done, Mister Thomas, is

2000
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,040
very autocratic. There must be a

2001
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,040
consensus among all duly elected

2002
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,040
members of Council, then the

2003
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:49,040
resolution could be presented.

2004
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:53,040
That would be democracy. And you

2005
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:55,040
wrote in your recent Facebook

2006
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,040
post that as a mayor, you have

2007
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:58,040
the power to call a special

2008
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:01,000
meeting of Council at anytime.

2009
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,000
Therefore, you could've done

2010
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:05,000
this two years ago or more,

2011
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,000
instead of creating a wedge

2012
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,000
between citizens,

2013
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:10,000
administrators, employees, and

2014
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,000
Council members. And my question

2015
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,000
for you is, did you ever

2016
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,000
approach the eighth council

2017
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,000
members about such a resolution

2018
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,000
during a caucus meeting or any

2019
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,000
meeting, for that matter? When

2020
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:23,000
and where?

2021
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,000
>> Okay, there's no wedge.

2022
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:27,000
There's no wedge created. That

2023
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,000
is an illusion. Just getting

2024
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,000
back to the preamble because I

2025
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,000
have to address a few of them,

2026
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:35,000
are you an election denier, Miss

2027
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:36,000
Weaver? Is that what you're

2028
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,000
telling? As

2029
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:38,000
>> Part of?

2030
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,000
>> Are you the election denier?

2031
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:41,000
Do not accept the results?

2032
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:42,000
>> No, I did not.

2033
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,000
>> Okay, you seem to think that

2034
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,000
the slim victory is not

2035
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,000
justified the special council

2036
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:50,000
meeting or it's an abuse of

2037
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:51,000
power, or the Fairview forest

2038
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,000
doesn't have sufficient weight

2039
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:56,000
as a subject.

2040
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,000
>> No, that's not what I meant.

2041
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,000
>> That's what you seemed to

2042
01:20:59,000 --> 01:20:59,000
imply.

2043
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:00,060
>> You are talking about the

2044
01:21:00,060 --> 01:21:01,060
election and you mentioned how

2045
01:21:01,060 --> 01:21:03,060
many people maybe had voted and

2046
01:21:03,060 --> 01:21:05,060
had concern for the forest. You

2047
01:21:05,060 --> 01:21:06,060
have to give numbers there, I

2048
01:21:06,060 --> 01:21:08,060
think. Or else just leave it out

2049
01:21:08,060 --> 01:21:10,060
and talk about the forest.

2050
01:21:10,060 --> 01:21:11,060
>> Okay, what we can find that

2051
01:21:11,060 --> 01:21:13,060
out. That's why we have

2052
01:21:13,060 --> 01:21:14,060
participation processes. The

2053
01:21:14,060 --> 01:21:16,060
participation process is

2054
01:21:16,060 --> 01:21:18,060
designed to find out the weight,

2055
01:21:18,060 --> 01:21:20,060
the force, the strength of the

2056
01:21:20,060 --> 01:21:21,060
voice of the people on certain

2057
01:21:21,060 --> 01:21:23,060
subject areas. It's exactly why

2058
01:21:23,060 --> 01:21:24,060
we're doing, we're engaging in

2059
01:21:24,060 --> 01:21:26,060
this process exactly why I'm

2060
01:21:26,060 --> 01:21:27,060
doing it. So that the citizens

2061
01:21:27,060 --> 01:21:29,060
can come out and express

2062
01:21:29,060 --> 01:21:31,060
themselves, and we can gauge the

2063
01:21:31,060 --> 01:21:33,060
support of that, and that's

2064
01:21:33,060 --> 01:21:35,060
exactly what I'm trying to do.

2065
01:21:35,060 --> 01:21:36,060
>> We are talking about now, so

2066
01:21:36,060 --> 01:21:40,060
you should've mentioned then.

2067
01:21:40,060 --> 01:21:41,060
Because there are how many

2068
01:21:41,060 --> 01:21:42,060
citizens in Pointe-Claire? How

2069
01:21:42,060 --> 01:21:44,060
many are eligible to vote? And

2070
01:21:44,060 --> 01:21:45,060
you're talking, but I want to

2071
01:21:45,060 --> 01:21:47,060
talk about 2021, we're talking

2072
01:21:47,060 --> 01:21:48,060
about now and I think it took

2073
01:21:48,060 --> 01:21:49,060
away from the force.

2074
01:21:49,060 --> 01:21:52,060
>> Well, let's find out now.

2075
01:21:52,060 --> 01:21:53,060
Let's have a process and let's

2076
01:21:53,060 --> 01:21:55,060
find out right now how people

2077
01:21:55,060 --> 01:21:57,060
feel. Why not? That's exactly

2078
01:21:57,060 --> 01:21:59,060
what I'm trying to have happen.

2079
01:21:59,060 --> 01:22:00,020
>> Okay, well you have to get up

2080
01:22:00,020 --> 01:22:03,020
to 35,000 people or however many

2081
01:22:03,020 --> 01:22:05,020
voters, 25,000?

2082
01:22:05,020 --> 01:22:08,020
>> Much less than that. Madam

2083
01:22:08,020 --> 01:22:09,020
Thibault, how many voters do we

2084
01:22:09,020 --> 01:22:12,020
have in total in an election?

2085
01:22:12,020 --> 01:22:17,020
>> In 2021, ballpark 24,000.

2086
01:22:19,020 --> 01:22:20,020
24,000.

2087
01:22:20,020 --> 01:22:23,020
>> Not bad, a? --

2088
01:22:23,020 --> 01:22:24,020
>> We had a what percentage

2089
01:22:24,020 --> 01:22:25,020
turnout?

2090
01:22:25,020 --> 01:22:29,020
>> 44% general for the mayor.

2091
01:22:29,020 --> 01:22:31,020
>> 30-ish.

2092
01:22:31,020 --> 01:22:33,020
>> Yeah, so that's what I meant.

2093
01:22:33,020 --> 01:22:34,020
That's why you're going to have

2094
01:22:34,020 --> 01:22:36,020
to redo the resolution.

2095
01:22:36,020 --> 01:22:38,020
>> Well, okay, just in response

2096
01:22:38,020 --> 01:22:39,020
to the resolution, first of all,

2097
01:22:39,020 --> 01:22:42,020
the resolution, that's okay,

2098
01:22:42,020 --> 01:22:43,020
Miss Weaver, your question is

2099
01:22:43,020 --> 01:22:44,020
done.

2100
01:22:44,020 --> 01:22:46,020
>> No, I would like to -- I can

2101
01:22:46,020 --> 01:22:48,020
sit and listen to your answer.

2102
01:22:48,020 --> 01:22:50,020
>> Okay, but there is no retort.

2103
01:22:50,020 --> 01:22:52,020
Just so you know. You are not

2104
01:22:52,020 --> 01:22:54,020
here to debate me, just so you

2105
01:22:54,020 --> 01:22:55,020
know.

2106
01:22:55,020 --> 01:22:56,020
>> No, I want to. I'm not into

2107
01:22:56,020 --> 01:22:57,020
it.

2108
01:22:57,020 --> 01:22:58,020
>> The resolution has been set

2109
01:22:58,020 --> 01:22:59,020
tonight to have been riddled

2110
01:22:59,020 --> 01:23:01,080
with mistruths. I encourage all

2111
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:04,080
of you in this room, everybody

2112
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:06,080
listening, please read the

2113
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,080
resolution and decide for

2114
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,080
yourselves, okay? That's number

2115
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:11,080
one. Don't believe what's said

2116
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:13,080
behind closed doors and read the

2117
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,080
words yourselves to see if it's

2118
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:17,080
riddled with mistruths. It was

2119
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,080
also, I did go through staff. I

2120
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:22,080
consulted with staff and

2121
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:25,080
proceeded according to the

2122
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:27,080
proper rules and regulations

2123
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:29,080
that I engaged in the meeting

2124
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:30,080
according to the professional

2125
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:31,080
advice given to me. I did not

2126
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,080
alter the procedure at all in

2127
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:35,080
the process. I completely

2128
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:36,080
followed all the rules of the

2129
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,080
engagement of this resolution.

2130
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:42,080
Thank you, Miss Weaver. Line

2131
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,080
Conway?

2132
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:52,080
>> Hello, good evening. I didn't

2133
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,080
have anything prepared to say

2134
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:55,080
tonight because I didn't know

2135
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:58,080
how it was going to turn out.

2136
01:23:58,080 --> 01:23:59,080
But I did write some notes as

2137
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:04,040
you were talking. Mayor Thomas,

2138
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:09,040
I appreciate what you do. I

2139
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:13,040
don't appreciate the tone of all

2140
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,040
the other councillors, except

2141
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,040
Mr. Tremblay. I really, I've

2142
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:19,040
been living in this city for 30

2143
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,040
years. I've been coming to city

2144
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:25,040
hall meetings, this one gets the

2145
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:26,040
cake. I really don't appreciate

2146
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:30,040
the tone of a few, especially

2147
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,040
three very condescending towards

2148
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:36,040
you. Not nice at all. That tone

2149
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,040
was very combative towards you.

2150
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,040
You don't deserve that. I think

2151
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:44,040
part of the problem, when you

2152
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:46,040
first came along, we had a

2153
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,040
different mayor. But a

2154
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,040
different, sorry, manager and

2155
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:53,040
then it took us a while to find

2156
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,040
Madame Verdun. And then with the

2157
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,040
firm B.C. to, I think the

2158
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:01,000
consultation was very long. Many

2159
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:02,000
months, there was a meeting once

2160
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,000
a month and some months were

2161
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:05,000
skipped, and I think it was very

2162
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,000
long to get a report from them.

2163
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,000
And then they didn't address

2164
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,000
the, from what I understand,

2165
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,000
didn't address Cadillac Fairview

2166
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,000
in their reports. So, I think

2167
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,000
this is part of the problem. At

2168
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,000
the public consultations I

2169
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,000
attended of PC to, I at the

2170
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:28,000
tables where I sat, I didn't

2171
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,000
hear anybody saying we need high

2172
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:35,000
rises, high-rise buildings. The

2173
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:36,000
consensus was the city was

2174
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,000
lacking the missing middle

2175
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,000
construction, so triplex,

2176
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:45,000
fourplex, and so on. I see most

2177
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:52,000
councillors are very, I'm going

2178
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:56,000
to jump to something else. I use

2179
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:00,060
operate the business. I don't,

2180
01:26:00,060 --> 01:26:04,060
who's laughing? Do we allow

2181
01:26:05,060 --> 01:26:08,060
this? Do we allow laughing at

2182
01:26:08,060 --> 01:26:09,060
me?

2183
01:26:09,060 --> 01:26:11,060
>> No.

2184
01:26:11,060 --> 01:26:13,060
>> No, no, that's a joke. Okay,

2185
01:26:13,060 --> 01:26:15,060
I used to operate a business. I

2186
01:26:15,060 --> 01:26:16,060
don't see these councillors

2187
01:26:16,060 --> 01:26:18,060
operating a business matter at

2188
01:26:18,060 --> 01:26:21,060
all. The fact that they are

2189
01:26:21,060 --> 01:26:24,060
suggesting how much Cadillac

2190
01:26:24,060 --> 01:26:28,060
Fairview land is worth is not

2191
01:26:28,060 --> 01:26:31,060
appropriate. It is not a good

2192
01:26:31,060 --> 01:26:34,060
business practice. They are

2193
01:26:34,060 --> 01:26:37,060
inflating the price on Cadillac

2194
01:26:37,060 --> 01:26:42,060
Fairview's side, it's crazy.

2195
01:26:43,060 --> 01:26:47,060
Yeah I was in touch with save

2196
01:26:47,060 --> 01:26:48,060
Fairview forest, a part of their

2197
01:26:48,060 --> 01:26:51,060
group, and some emails were

2198
01:26:51,060 --> 01:26:53,060
sent. And actually, I sent

2199
01:26:53,060 --> 01:26:56,060
emails to some ministries, and I

2200
01:26:56,060 --> 01:26:57,060
received some replies which I

2201
01:26:57,060 --> 01:26:59,060
would like to read to you. Are

2202
01:26:59,060 --> 01:27:03,020
you interested in learning what

2203
01:27:03,020 --> 01:27:04,020
Mr. Francisco carpal edgy row

2204
01:27:04,020 --> 01:27:07,020
back to me, Mister Thomas? Yes,

2205
01:27:07,020 --> 01:27:09,020
it relates to this. The Cadillac

2206
01:27:09,020 --> 01:27:10,020
Fairview for us.

2207
01:27:10,020 --> 01:27:12,020
>> Miss Conway, it'll be the

2208
01:27:12,020 --> 01:27:13,020
last and then we will go to the

2209
01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:15,020
question. Because we do have a

2210
01:27:15,020 --> 01:27:18,020
lot of people.

2211
01:27:18,020 --> 01:27:20,020
>> Okay, in his reply, he makes

2212
01:27:20,020 --> 01:27:22,020
a comparison to some species

2213
01:27:22,020 --> 01:27:25,020
that are going extinct, some

2214
01:27:25,020 --> 01:27:26,020
butterflies that are going

2215
01:27:26,020 --> 01:27:28,020
extinct. Cadillac Fairview has

2216
01:27:28,020 --> 01:27:31,020
the brown snake, so he wrote to

2217
01:27:31,020 --> 01:27:33,020
me, thank you for your email

2218
01:27:33,020 --> 01:27:35,020
about efforts to save Fairview

2219
01:27:35,020 --> 01:27:37,020
forest. I admire your commitment

2220
01:27:37,020 --> 01:27:39,020
to preserving important green

2221
01:27:39,020 --> 01:27:41,020
space in our community. The

2222
01:27:41,020 --> 01:27:43,020
federal government enjoys

2223
01:27:43,020 --> 01:27:45,020
decision-making power over lands

2224
01:27:45,020 --> 01:27:47,020
under its jurisdiction, such as

2225
01:27:47,020 --> 01:27:49,020
the land at Trudeau airport,

2226
01:27:49,020 --> 01:27:50,020
which includes the habitat of

2227
01:27:50,020 --> 01:27:52,020
the monarch butterfly. So, this

2228
01:27:52,020 --> 01:27:56,020
is the comparison. The

2229
01:27:56,020 --> 01:27:57,020
government supports this

2230
01:27:57,020 --> 01:27:59,020
decision, making power of the

2231
01:27:59,020 --> 01:28:01,080
federal species at risk act,

2232
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:02,080
when a species is classified as

2233
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,080
threatened or endangered, for

2234
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,080
example, the federal government

2235
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,080
lists the monarch as endangered

2236
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,080
under the -- as of December,

2237
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:14,080
2023. This provides legal

2238
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:16,080
protection. By virtue of -- the

2239
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:17,080
federal government can also

2240
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:19,080
issue protection orders in

2241
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:21,080
certain circumstances, even on

2242
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:24,080
lands that are not federal.

2243
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,080
Example, there are links, okay.

2244
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:28,080
The fact that a species is

2245
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:30,080
listed federally has threatened

2246
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:31,080
or endangered does not

2247
01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:33,080
automatically qualify for

2248
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:36,080
federal prohibition order. A

2249
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:37,080
particular factor in this regard

2250
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:39,080
is whether the habitat in

2251
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:41,080
question is considered critical

2252
01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:46,080
to a species is survival. He has

2253
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,080
received a list of species

2254
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:50,080
living in the Fairview forest

2255
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,080
and has written to the federal

2256
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:54,080
environment minister, Steven

2257
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:55,080
Guilbeault, to seek his opinion

2258
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:57,080
on options that may exist for

2259
01:28:57,080 --> 01:28:59,080
protecting the federally listed

2260
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:02,040
species in some way.

2261
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:03,040
>> So, your question?

2262
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:05,040
>> Before we give a permit for

2263
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:06,040
anything, before any decisions

2264
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,040
are made, we should wait for the

2265
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:10,040
answers from the ministries.

2266
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:11,040
>> Agreed.

2267
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:12,040
>> Thank you.

2268
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:17,040
>> Thank you. Nasr El Dabee?

2269
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:27,040
>> Good evening. Good evening.

2270
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:34,040
First, I appreciate Mr. Tim

2271
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,040
Thomas for what you stand for,

2272
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:41,040
what you ran for, because most

2273
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,040
politicians, when they run, they

2274
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:47,040
say too many things and they

2275
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:52,040
never fall do what they say. As

2276
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:58,040
the previous Mayor, he said

2277
01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:01,000
citizens first but when he

2278
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:05,000
started, all the building and

2279
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:07,000
all the developers --

2280
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:10,000
>> Mr. El Dabee, we have to

2281
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:11,000
pertain to the topic of one to

2282
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,000
public consultation.

2283
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:14,000
>> I'm sorry because they put a

2284
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,000
cost on the environment.

2285
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,000
>> Okay, who put a cost on the

2286
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,000
environment?

2287
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:24,000
>> The city council. They didn't

2288
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:27,000
put cost on what's happening on

2289
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:32,000
August 9th. Pointe-Claire, they

2290
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:34,000
have a flood and survey cap

2291
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:37,000
because with all the high-rise

2292
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:39,000
buildings and the condo, more

2293
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:44,000
than 5000 units, they didn't

2294
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,000
know how much it costs us --

2295
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:51,000
cleanup and renovation. So,

2296
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:53,000
that's the environment. One of

2297
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:54,000
their going to stop putting cost

2298
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:59,000
in the environment and to be

2299
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:00,060
serious? We thank you, really,

2300
01:31:00,060 --> 01:31:02,060
for standing up for what you ran

2301
01:31:02,060 --> 01:31:05,060
for. I am glad, really, some

2302
01:31:05,060 --> 01:31:06,060
politicians, this is really

2303
01:31:06,060 --> 01:31:08,060
serious about the environment.

2304
01:31:08,060 --> 01:31:12,060
So, what the City Council, if

2305
01:31:12,060 --> 01:31:15,060
they're not able to do what the

2306
01:31:15,060 --> 01:31:16,060
citizen elected you for, they

2307
01:31:16,060 --> 01:31:19,060
can resign. It is very simple.

2308
01:31:19,060 --> 01:31:22,060
Or you ask for your election. So

2309
01:31:22,060 --> 01:31:23,060
--

2310
01:31:23,060 --> 01:31:25,060
>> Mister El Dabee, we're

2311
01:31:25,060 --> 01:31:26,060
speaking to the subject of the

2312
01:31:26,060 --> 01:31:27,060
special council meeting, now you

2313
01:31:27,060 --> 01:31:28,060
are on track when you are

2314
01:31:28,060 --> 01:31:30,060
talking about flooding because I

2315
01:31:30,060 --> 01:31:33,060
believe part of the problem with

2316
01:31:33,060 --> 01:31:35,060
not addressing the environment

2317
01:31:35,060 --> 01:31:37,060
is that it costs us a fortune.

2318
01:31:37,060 --> 01:31:39,060
And that doesn't come up in real

2319
01:31:39,060 --> 01:31:40,060
estate transactions, and I think

2320
01:31:40,060 --> 01:31:42,060
that's a valid point. Do you

2321
01:31:42,060 --> 01:31:45,060
have a question for --

2322
01:31:45,060 --> 01:31:49,060
>> That costs all of us as

2323
01:31:49,060 --> 01:31:51,060
citizens. But they didn't

2324
01:31:51,060 --> 01:31:52,060
calculate that. They calculated

2325
01:31:52,060 --> 01:31:54,060
only if they're buying.

2326
01:31:54,060 --> 01:31:56,060
>> Okay, so your question? I

2327
01:31:56,060 --> 01:31:58,060
hear what you're saying. We did

2328
01:31:58,060 --> 01:32:00,020
address that last meeting and

2329
01:32:00,020 --> 01:32:02,020
the cost of ignoring or not

2330
01:32:02,020 --> 01:32:04,020
looking after the environment is

2331
01:32:04,020 --> 01:32:08,020
huge. It's huge. We have climate

2332
01:32:08,020 --> 01:32:10,020
crises, we have episodes, we

2333
01:32:10,020 --> 01:32:13,020
have ice storms, we have floods,

2334
01:32:13,020 --> 01:32:15,020
we have things that cost our

2335
01:32:15,020 --> 01:32:17,020
cities millions of dollars as a

2336
01:32:17,020 --> 01:32:19,020
result of not addressing climate

2337
01:32:19,020 --> 01:32:22,020
issues. And that is why,

2338
01:32:22,020 --> 01:32:23,020
especially why, you shouldn't

2339
01:32:23,020 --> 01:32:25,020
ever cut down any part of the

2340
01:32:25,020 --> 01:32:28,020
forest. And not any part of the

2341
01:32:28,020 --> 01:32:32,020
forest. Not just the ones, hang

2342
01:32:32,020 --> 01:32:34,020
on, what was the wording that I

2343
01:32:34,020 --> 01:32:38,020
had? Not all of it. As much as

2344
01:32:38,020 --> 01:32:40,020
we can. I'm not here to protect

2345
01:32:40,020 --> 01:32:42,020
as much as we can. I'm here to

2346
01:32:42,020 --> 01:32:43,020
protect all of it because we

2347
01:32:43,020 --> 01:32:46,020
can't afford to lose any of it.

2348
01:32:46,020 --> 01:32:49,020
So, you have a question, Mr. El

2349
01:32:49,020 --> 01:32:50,020
Dabee?

2350
01:32:50,020 --> 01:32:52,020
>> Yes, for competent -- please,

2351
01:32:52,020 --> 01:32:55,020
any City Council is in contact

2352
01:32:55,020 --> 01:32:57,020
with Cadillac Fairview or

2353
01:32:57,020 --> 01:32:59,020
working for Cadillac Fairview,

2354
01:32:59,020 --> 01:33:00,080
or the family working for

2355
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,080
Cadillac, this is supposed to be

2356
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,080
--

2357
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:06,080
>> Mr. El Dabee, this is not the

2358
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:08,080
subject of the special council

2359
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:09,080
meeting.

2360
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:10,080
>> As a citizen!

2361
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:12,080
>> Okay, Mr. El Dabee, we're

2362
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:13,080
speaking to whether we're going

2363
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:14,080
to public council station on the

2364
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:15,080
Fairview forest or Hyatt

2365
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:17,080
buildings. Whether we should.

2366
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,080
And it's been voted down. But

2367
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:21,080
you can speak to that or ask a

2368
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:22,080
question pertaining to that.

2369
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:24,080
>> Okay, I hope really.

2370
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:26,080
>> Please sir, pertaining to

2371
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:27,080
that.

2372
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,080
>> Next meeting approve and to

2373
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:33,080
hold agree about preserving

2374
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:35,080
Cadillac Fairview. That's all I

2375
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:38,080
wish for. All this -- was here,

2376
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:40,080
they won't save Cadillac

2377
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,080
Fairview and they stopped the 25

2378
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:44,080
floor building. Thank you.

2379
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:49,080
>> Okay, thank you. Sheila

2380
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:51,080
Larsen?

2381
01:33:57,080 --> 01:34:02,040
>> Thank you. I want to address

2382
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:04,040
the fact that tonight, we've

2383
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,040
heard that this was something

2384
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,040
that most councillors, a

2385
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:11,040
majority of councillors, felt

2386
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:13,040
was rushed, was something

2387
01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:15,040
unexpected, something sort of

2388
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:18,040
pushed by you, Mister Mayor,

2389
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,040
upon them. And that there is not

2390
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:23,040
really any urgency. That was the

2391
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:27,040
other sort of tone I heard. I

2392
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:30,040
happen to be present back, what,

2393
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:33,040
three, four years ago when

2394
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:34,040
Fairview, Cadillac Fairview held

2395
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:38,040
its presentation. It wasn't a

2396
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:40,040
consultation. It was a

2397
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:43,040
presentation of their promotion

2398
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:46,040
of making that area city centre

2399
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:49,040
and increasing the population.

2400
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:51,040
At that point, I remember

2401
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:54,040
calculating it was by a quarter.

2402
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:58,040
10,000 more people. At that

2403
01:34:58,040 --> 01:34:59,040
presentation, many of us,

2404
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:03,000
including myself, were horrified

2405
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,000
by the impact that that would

2406
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,000
have. They're large presentation

2407
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,000
included. Mention of mixed use

2408
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:14,000
of what we know now as Fairview

2409
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:16,000
forest, and it was going to put

2410
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,000
up a 25 storey, 2:25 storey

2411
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,000
buildings. And when I know I

2412
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:23,000
asked the question, you know,

2413
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:26,000
why 25 storeys? It's not

2414
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:28,000
anything conducive to

2415
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:29,000
Pointe-Claire. They said,

2416
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:31,000
because we can. And if the

2417
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,000
airport says we can do 27, it'll

2418
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:37,000
be 27. So, my question is, what

2419
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:40,000
is has counsel been doing ever

2420
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:44,000
since then? And I must say, I

2421
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:46,000
have attended some meetings.

2422
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,000
I've sat downstairs during the

2423
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,000
COVID time and cried through

2424
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:52,000
some of your meetings because I

2425
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:56,000
didn't see any effective

2426
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:59,000
debating, discussing,

2427
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:00,060
researching, trying to come up

2428
01:36:00,060 --> 01:36:05,060
with best answers. I just saw

2429
01:36:05,060 --> 01:36:06,060
tax being taking place. If you

2430
01:36:06,060 --> 01:36:08,060
said this, I'm saying that,

2431
01:36:08,060 --> 01:36:10,060
we're not going to get anywhere.

2432
01:36:10,060 --> 01:36:11,060
So, one of the things that I

2433
01:36:11,060 --> 01:36:14,060
wonder is, has everybody been

2434
01:36:14,060 --> 01:36:16,060
sticking their heads in the

2435
01:36:16,060 --> 01:36:18,060
sand, thinking this will just go

2436
01:36:18,060 --> 01:36:19,060
away? Because we know it is not

2437
01:36:19,060 --> 01:36:21,060
going to go away. Cadillac

2438
01:36:21,060 --> 01:36:23,060
Fairview is not going to just

2439
01:36:23,060 --> 01:36:26,060
pack up and go home. It's going

2440
01:36:26,060 --> 01:36:28,060
to push and we have known

2441
01:36:28,060 --> 01:36:33,060
there's already, sorry, a legal

2442
01:36:33,060 --> 01:36:35,060
case out there. I'm not sure why

2443
01:36:35,060 --> 01:36:37,060
we are now afraid of maybe doing

2444
01:36:37,060 --> 01:36:39,060
something that might have a

2445
01:36:39,060 --> 01:36:41,060
legal consequence, because we

2446
01:36:41,060 --> 01:36:44,060
did it already. I also

2447
01:36:44,060 --> 01:36:47,060
participated in the consultation

2448
01:36:47,060 --> 01:36:49,060
series at least all but one that

2449
01:36:49,060 --> 01:36:52,060
I missed when I was away. And I

2450
01:36:52,060 --> 01:36:55,060
was at the one about the green

2451
01:36:55,060 --> 01:36:58,060
space on public and private

2452
01:36:58,060 --> 01:37:01,020
lands. And I just want to, you

2453
01:37:01,020 --> 01:37:03,020
know, I have seen that we've

2454
01:37:03,020 --> 01:37:06,020
gotten lots of whereases in this

2455
01:37:06,020 --> 01:37:08,020
resolution. And many of the

2456
01:37:08,020 --> 01:37:09,020
whereas's are probably

2457
01:37:09,020 --> 01:37:12,020
debatable. But when I go back to

2458
01:37:12,020 --> 01:37:15,020
the resolution, to hold one

2459
01:37:15,020 --> 01:37:17,020
public consultation meeting

2460
01:37:17,020 --> 01:37:19,020
specifically devoted to the

2461
01:37:19,020 --> 01:37:21,020
future of publicly and privately

2462
01:37:21,020 --> 01:37:24,020
owned green spaces, including

2463
01:37:24,020 --> 01:37:29,020
Fairview forest in zone MU2,

2464
01:37:30,020 --> 01:37:31,020
that's the part and then I agree

2465
01:37:31,020 --> 01:37:33,020
with the building thing as well,

2466
01:37:33,020 --> 01:37:35,020
the height. But this is the part

2467
01:37:35,020 --> 01:37:38,020
that really touches me and makes

2468
01:37:38,020 --> 01:37:41,020
me impassioned for us to get our

2469
01:37:41,020 --> 01:37:44,020
act together and have

2470
01:37:44,020 --> 01:37:45,020
consultation, because I was at

2471
01:37:45,020 --> 01:37:47,020
the meeting where they said, you

2472
01:37:47,020 --> 01:37:51,020
can't talk about that. And

2473
01:37:51,020 --> 01:37:52,020
others that were in that room

2474
01:37:52,020 --> 01:37:54,020
know that we said, what are you

2475
01:37:54,020 --> 01:37:55,020
talking about? This is

2476
01:37:55,020 --> 01:37:57,020
important. We have to talk about

2477
01:37:57,020 --> 01:37:59,020
this. And they said no, no, no.

2478
01:37:59,020 --> 01:38:01,080
We will take no notes of

2479
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:04,080
anything you say, but we all

2480
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,080
said something and wrote

2481
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:08,080
something, and gave our opinion,

2482
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:11,080
because this is very important

2483
01:38:11,080 --> 01:38:14,080
to us. The citizens that you are

2484
01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:16,080
working for. And I want to

2485
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:20,080
remind you of that. So, I don't

2486
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:22,080
have, well, I do have a

2487
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,080
question. I would like to know

2488
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:28,080
if, what are we voting no to?

2489
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:31,080
Are we voting to the idea of

2490
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:35,080
public consultation meeting? Is

2491
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:37,080
that no way, we are not having

2492
01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:41,080
that. Is it to talk about the

2493
01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:43,080
future of publicly and privately

2494
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:45,080
owned green spaces in

2495
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:47,080
Pointe-Claire? You don't want to

2496
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:51,080
talk about that? No? What are we

2497
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:55,080
saying no to hear, when we all

2498
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:58,080
say this resolution is no good?

2499
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:00,040
This is garbage. And I'm just

2500
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:02,040
going to, I don't really expect

2501
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:05,040
an answer. I think we got the

2502
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:09,040
answer already. We heard you, we

2503
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:12,040
know where you are at. What I

2504
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:14,040
was going to just and with a

2505
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:19,040
plea to put principles before

2506
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:24,040
politics. To put people, people

2507
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:27,040
of Pointe-Claire before

2508
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:31,040
political power. And to put the

2509
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:36,040
planet before it is too late for

2510
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:39,040
all. All of us.

2511
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:41,040
[Applause]

2512
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:46,040
>> Thank you!

2513
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:48,040
>> Linda Dumas?

2514
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:49,040
>> I just think that we should

2515
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:50,040
respond because I don't think

2516
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:52,040
it's fair. I think exactly one

2517
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:54,040
of the things that you said is,

2518
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:55,040
we like the first sentence. We

2519
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,040
like the first sentence as you

2520
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:00,000
stopped it after MU2. We cannot

2521
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,000
be talking about MU1, we are in

2522
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:04,000
litigation so it's our

2523
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:05,000
responsibility to make sure that

2524
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:06,000
in this resolution, it does not

2525
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,000
get us into legal hot water. But

2526
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,000
none of us said we did not want

2527
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:11,000
the public consultation. In

2528
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:12,000
fact, Eric listed out all the

2529
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:13,000
things we would like to include

2530
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:15,000
in the resolutions have exactly

2531
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,000
that, to have the discussion, to

2532
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:19,000
have the go back and forth, but

2533
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:20,000
with factual information so we

2534
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:23,000
can really hear from you, truly,

2535
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:24,000
based on factual information, a

2536
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:27,000
real public consultation. Not

2537
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,000
something, as Mr., Madam weaver

2538
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:31,000
said, and includes political

2539
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:32,000
innuendos as part of a

2540
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:33,000
resolution. That's not what a

2541
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:36,000
resolution is. We all believe in

2542
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:37,000
protecting as much as the force

2543
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,000
as possible, and we need to hear

2544
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:40,000
from all of you. Not just those

2545
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:43,000
in this room. All citizens in

2546
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:45,000
Pointe-Claire. If it has a cost,

2547
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:46,000
if it doesn't have a cost, what

2548
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:48,000
people are willing to do, what

2549
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,000
they are not willing to do, and

2550
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:51,000
it's beyond everybody in this

2551
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,000
room. We have a whole city, so

2552
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:55,000
there cannot be statements,

2553
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:56,000
widespread statement saying that

2554
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:58,000
we aren't interested. We just

2555
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:00,060
said we're interested and Eric

2556
01:41:00,060 --> 01:41:01,060
detailed out what he would like

2557
01:41:01,060 --> 01:41:02,060
to propose in a resolution

2558
01:41:02,060 --> 01:41:03,060
that's more appropriate. This

2559
01:41:03,060 --> 01:41:05,060
resolution is not appropriate.

2560
01:41:05,060 --> 01:41:06,060
We never saw it. The fact it was

2561
01:41:06,060 --> 01:41:08,060
posted on Facebook before we

2562
01:41:08,060 --> 01:41:10,060
received it at our door is

2563
01:41:10,060 --> 01:41:11,060
wrong. That is not process. That

2564
01:41:11,060 --> 01:41:13,060
is not what should be happening

2565
01:41:13,060 --> 01:41:15,060
at this council by anybody. And

2566
01:41:15,060 --> 01:41:17,060
so, that's why we cannot support

2567
01:41:17,060 --> 01:41:19,060
this update that's not discussed

2568
01:41:19,060 --> 01:41:20,060
amongst elected individuals.

2569
01:41:20,060 --> 01:41:23,060
That are representing the city.

2570
01:41:23,060 --> 01:41:24,060
Because we all were elected to

2571
01:41:24,060 --> 01:41:26,060
represent the city, so, don't

2572
01:41:26,060 --> 01:41:27,060
think that we should be able to

2573
01:41:27,060 --> 01:41:28,060
read something before it gets

2574
01:41:28,060 --> 01:41:30,060
posted on Facebook, the

2575
01:41:30,060 --> 01:41:31,060
resolution?

2576
01:41:31,060 --> 01:41:33,060
>> I don't read Facebook, so I

2577
01:41:33,060 --> 01:41:34,060
couldn't --

2578
01:41:34,060 --> 01:41:35,060
[Laughter]

2579
01:41:35,060 --> 01:41:36,060
>> That's exactly what happened,

2580
01:41:36,060 --> 01:41:37,060
exactly what happened. So, we

2581
01:41:37,060 --> 01:41:38,060
cannot support this.

2582
01:41:38,060 --> 01:41:39,060
>> And excuse me, that's simply

2583
01:41:39,060 --> 01:41:41,060
not true. It was not posted on

2584
01:41:41,060 --> 01:41:42,060
Facebook before they received

2585
01:41:42,060 --> 01:41:43,060
it.

2586
01:41:43,060 --> 01:41:45,060
>> I have a screenshot before it

2587
01:41:45,060 --> 01:41:46,060
came to my house.

2588
01:41:46,060 --> 01:41:48,060
>> I think it's important to

2589
01:41:48,060 --> 01:41:50,060
note that Councillor

2590
01:41:50,060 --> 01:41:51,060
Thorstad-Cullen said we are

2591
01:41:51,060 --> 01:41:54,060
going to save as much as

2592
01:41:54,060 --> 01:41:56,060
possible. It all should be

2593
01:41:56,060 --> 01:41:58,060
saved. Not as much as possible.

2594
01:41:58,060 --> 01:42:00,020
It all should be saved.

2595
01:42:00,020 --> 01:42:02,020
[Applause]

2596
01:42:02,020 --> 01:42:04,020
Now, I would also like to speak

2597
01:42:04,020 --> 01:42:08,020
to the fact that there were

2598
01:42:08,020 --> 01:42:10,020
special extraordinary general

2599
01:42:10,020 --> 01:42:12,020
meetings called without me ever

2600
01:42:12,020 --> 01:42:15,020
seeing the questions or having

2601
01:42:15,020 --> 01:42:17,020
any say on the debate of the

2602
01:42:17,020 --> 01:42:19,020
resolutions, okay? So, let's

2603
01:42:19,020 --> 01:42:22,020
just get this a little back

2604
01:42:22,020 --> 01:42:23,020
onside earth here so you guys

2605
01:42:23,020 --> 01:42:27,020
know the truth. Albert

2606
01:42:28,020 --> 01:42:33,020
Ashkenazi? Sorry, Madam.

2607
01:42:36,020 --> 01:42:38,020
>> Wow, what an evening. Good

2608
01:42:38,020 --> 01:42:43,020
evening. I was wondering about

2609
01:42:44,020 --> 01:42:47,020
those three special council

2610
01:42:47,020 --> 01:42:49,020
meetings, the very first one

2611
01:42:49,020 --> 01:42:51,020
that I ever attended in my

2612
01:42:51,020 --> 01:42:54,020
entire life was, what? January,

2613
01:42:54,020 --> 01:42:56,020
February of 2023. Because I

2614
01:42:56,020 --> 01:43:01,080
always felt that the Council and

2615
01:43:03,080 --> 01:43:08,080
elected officials were the best

2616
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:12,080
to figure out where a community

2617
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:15,080
is going. I was prodded by

2618
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:19,080
another citizen, Linda, you

2619
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:20,080
know, it's your civic duty to be

2620
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:23,080
involved. So, that first special

2621
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:25,080
council meeting, Brent Cowan and

2622
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:30,080
a few others wanted to give

2623
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:33,080
Madam directress the ability to

2624
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:38,080
speak to Cadillac Fairview. We

2625
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:40,080
never heard back, so that

2626
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:42,080
probably possibly never went

2627
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:47,080
anywhere. The second one was,

2628
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:52,080
yes, the administration, the

2629
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:55,080
administration administrative

2630
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:57,080
oversight and I understand that

2631
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:59,080
was another special meeting. All

2632
01:43:59,080 --> 01:44:02,040
of you, yes, we are going to

2633
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:06,040
heck in a basket and, you know,

2634
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:08,040
we are all falling apart here

2635
01:44:08,040 --> 01:44:11,040
because of our mayor. I

2636
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:14,040
understand, I believe correctly,

2637
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:16,040
that that was denied to the

2638
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:18,040
Councillors. And I think there

2639
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:22,040
was another one. So, yes,

2640
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:25,040
whatever preparation anybody

2641
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,040
got, whether the mayor got

2642
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:28,040
preparation for those special

2643
01:44:28,040 --> 01:44:32,040
meetings or you got special

2644
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:35,040
preparation for this meeting,

2645
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:36,040
this meeting or this

2646
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:38,040
conversation certainly is,

2647
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:43,040
again, long overdue. Because I

2648
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:46,040
applaud you, Madam who just

2649
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:48,040
spoke. Yes, I only went to one

2650
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:53,040
of those meetings with 100

2651
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:56,040
people. Ten tables, ten people

2652
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:59,040
each, and the only resounding

2653
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:00,000
effect, there was one person who

2654
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,000
stood up at each table and every

2655
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:08,000
one of them was say the

2656
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,000
ecosystem, Fairview forest. And

2657
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:16,000
I also believe that most people

2658
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,000
said, we really don't want to

2659
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:22,000
see more than six storeys almost

2660
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:25,000
anywhere. We know that that's an

2661
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,000
impossibility. So, speaking to

2662
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:31,000
the councillors, my last

2663
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:34,000
question, I will lead up to one

2664
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:38,000
question. And my final question

2665
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:43,000
is, where were you? On different

2666
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,000
occasions where I presented

2667
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:50,000
myself in this forum, I have

2668
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:54,000
asked you specifically and not

2669
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:57,000
gotten an answer, whereas Miss

2670
01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:00,060
Thorstad-Cullen wished to answer

2671
01:46:00,060 --> 01:46:02,060
tonight. Would you please inform

2672
01:46:02,060 --> 01:46:06,060
your constituents about the

2673
01:46:06,060 --> 01:46:09,060
ecosystem that is Fairview

2674
01:46:09,060 --> 01:46:12,060
forest? Randomly, speaking to my

2675
01:46:12,060 --> 01:46:17,060
neighbours, et cetera, is that

2676
01:46:20,060 --> 01:46:25,060
near Cadillac Fairview? So many

2677
01:46:25,060 --> 01:46:28,060
people either working too hard,

2678
01:46:28,060 --> 01:46:30,060
disengage, it's Segura, that

2679
01:46:30,060 --> 01:46:32,060
Sarah. There are maybe not that

2680
01:46:32,060 --> 01:46:35,060
many of us who really know, but

2681
01:46:35,060 --> 01:46:37,060
should be made aware. And I

2682
01:46:37,060 --> 01:46:39,060
believe it is the Councillors

2683
01:46:39,060 --> 01:46:42,060
responsibilities to reach their

2684
01:46:42,060 --> 01:46:44,060
constituents, so that we can

2685
01:46:44,060 --> 01:46:48,060
have a proper and informed vote,

2686
01:46:48,060 --> 01:46:52,060
if it comes to a public vote.

2687
01:46:52,060 --> 01:46:55,060
About the forest. So, here at

2688
01:46:55,060 --> 01:46:57,060
this podium, I have asked you to

2689
01:46:57,060 --> 01:47:00,020
do it. I have copied every

2690
01:47:00,020 --> 01:47:03,020
councillor on three occasions

2691
01:47:03,020 --> 01:47:07,020
when I sent letters beginning

2692
01:47:07,020 --> 01:47:10,020
earth day, 2023, to the

2693
01:47:10,020 --> 01:47:12,020
executives at Cadillac Fairview

2694
01:47:12,020 --> 01:47:14,020
Toronto, Cadillac Fairview

2695
01:47:14,020 --> 01:47:17,020
Montréal, the owners of an

2696
01:47:17,020 --> 01:47:19,020
ecosystem, the Ontario teachers

2697
01:47:19,020 --> 01:47:24,020
pension plan. In which I stated

2698
01:47:26,020 --> 01:47:28,020
right at the very beginning,

2699
01:47:28,020 --> 01:47:30,020
what is all this talk about?

2700
01:47:30,020 --> 01:47:32,020
You've got to find out if they

2701
01:47:32,020 --> 01:47:35,020
will sell it to us and start

2702
01:47:35,020 --> 01:47:39,020
talking about paying for it. The

2703
01:47:39,020 --> 01:47:42,020
various levels of government.

2704
01:47:42,020 --> 01:47:46,020
Tax concessions for probably our

2705
01:47:46,020 --> 01:47:48,020
biggest taxpayer, Cadillac

2706
01:47:48,020 --> 01:47:52,020
Fairview. 50 years is not a long

2707
01:47:52,020 --> 01:47:56,020
time to pay for something has

2708
01:47:56,020 --> 01:48:00,080
drastically as important as this

2709
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:04,080
ecosystem. I know another time,

2710
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,080
September 2023, my husband and I

2711
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:10,080
initiated a 200 person mailing,

2712
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:12,080
forming to elected federal,

2713
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:14,080
provincial, this council, and

2714
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:18,080
all the mayors on the island of

2715
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:22,080
Montréal, asking. It was talking

2716
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:25,080
about the ecosystem and that we

2717
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:29,080
need to get on to it. And then

2718
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:31,080
earlier this year, this is my

2719
01:48:31,080 --> 01:48:36,080
last point, I wrote on to this

2720
01:48:37,080 --> 01:48:39,080
council and got one response

2721
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:44,080
from Tara Stainforth, which we

2722
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:46,080
did not go anywhere with it. But

2723
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:49,080
again, all of these times

2724
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:52,080
saying, it was saying educate

2725
01:48:52,080 --> 01:48:55,080
your constituents. Inform your

2726
01:48:55,080 --> 01:48:58,080
constituents about this

2727
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:00,040
ecosystem. Let them make up

2728
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:04,040
their minds and try to inform

2729
01:49:04,040 --> 01:49:08,040
them that there is a slew of

2730
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:09,040
information, educational

2731
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:10,040
information, information going

2732
01:49:10,040 --> 01:49:13,040
back, absolutely decades upon

2733
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:14,040
decades. The tipping point is

2734
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:19,040
not now, it was back then. Those

2735
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:20,040
were leading indicators and

2736
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:24,040
right now, you are the lagging

2737
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,040
indicator. My last point, so I

2738
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:27,040
wrote each councillor asking

2739
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:30,040
them again to engage their

2740
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:32,040
constituents with information

2741
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:36,040
about this urban ecosystem. My

2742
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:39,040
question is, where were you?

2743
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:44,040
Thank you.

2744
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:51,040
>> Alberta Eskenazi?

2745
01:49:54,040 --> 01:49:57,040
No? Sandra Maki?

2746
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:10,000
- Bonsoir à tous. J'aimerais

2747
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:11,000
remercier Monsieur le Maire et

2748
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:13,000
monsieur Tremblay de votre appui

2749
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:15,000
de la proposition qui est, je

2750
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:17,000
pense, une proposition qui me

2751
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:19,000
semblait, moi, comme personne

2752
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:21,000
ordinaire entre guillemets,

2753
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:24,000
démocratique, légale. Il y a

2754
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:25,000
peut-être quelque chose que je

2755
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:26,000
ne comprends pas, mais j'ai vu

2756
01:50:26,000 --> 01:50:27,000
beaucoup de passion que les

2757
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:28,000
autres conseillers qui

2758
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:29,000
semblaient dire que ce n'était

2759
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:34,000
pas légal. J'aimerais comprendre

2760
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:36,000
pourquoi? Il y a peut-être

2761
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:37,000
quelque chose que je n'ai pas

2762
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:39,000
compris? Et puis l'autre

2763
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:40,000
commentaire que je voulais

2764
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:45,000
faire, je comprends que la

2765
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:46,000
forêt, c'est une propriété

2766
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:48,000
privée. Moi, je travaille en

2767
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:51,000
affaires, donc je comprends bien

2768
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:54,000
que la propriété appartient à

2769
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:58,000
Cadillac Fairview et puis eux,

2770
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:01,060
ils ont donné des sous, et moi,

2771
01:51:01,060 --> 01:51:02,060
si j'avais investi dans la

2772
01:51:02,060 --> 01:51:03,060
compagnie, je voudrais avoir mon

2773
01:51:03,060 --> 01:51:06,060
retour, mais je pense que si on

2774
01:51:06,060 --> 01:51:08,060
regarde aujourd'hui avec la

2775
01:51:08,060 --> 01:51:09,060
crise climatique dans laquelle

2776
01:51:09,060 --> 01:51:12,060
on vit, il y a des coûts, il y a

2777
01:51:12,060 --> 01:51:14,060
des coûts rattachés aux

2778
01:51:14,060 --> 01:51:16,060
inondations, aux feux de forêt.

2779
01:51:16,060 --> 01:51:18,060
O.K., On dit: oui, ça va coûter

2780
01:51:18,060 --> 01:51:20,060
combien acheter le terrain? Mais

2781
01:51:20,060 --> 01:51:22,060
après, ça va coûter combien aux

2782
01:51:22,060 --> 01:51:24,060
gens, aux citoyens, pour les

2783
01:51:24,060 --> 01:51:25,060
sous-sols? Vous avez vu tous les

2784
01:51:25,060 --> 01:51:27,060
gens qui avaient tous leurs

2785
01:51:27,060 --> 01:51:28,060
meubles dehors, ça coûte combien

2786
01:51:28,060 --> 01:51:30,060
refaire les sous-sols? Ça va

2787
01:51:30,060 --> 01:51:32,060
revenir encore à plusieurs

2788
01:51:32,060 --> 01:51:35,060
reprises. Donc en tout cas, moi,

2789
01:51:35,060 --> 01:51:37,060
je pense qu'il faut avoir une

2790
01:51:37,060 --> 01:51:39,060
discussion par rapport à comment

2791
01:51:39,060 --> 01:51:41,060
on va gérer ça. Moi, j'ai parlé

2792
01:51:41,060 --> 01:51:44,060
à beaucoup d'autres citoyens.

2793
01:51:44,060 --> 01:51:45,060
C'est rare que je rencontre,

2794
01:51:45,060 --> 01:51:47,060
c'est sûr qu'il y a des gens qui

2795
01:51:47,060 --> 01:51:48,060
sont, qui veulent développer la

2796
01:51:48,060 --> 01:51:50,060
forêt, mais la majorité des gens

2797
01:51:50,060 --> 01:51:51,060
disent: oui, il faut faire

2798
01:51:51,060 --> 01:51:55,060
quelque chose. Et puis vous êtes

2799
01:51:55,060 --> 01:51:56,060
dans le siège du pouvoir et puis

2800
01:51:56,060 --> 01:51:58,060
j'aimerais vous voir travailler

2801
01:51:58,060 --> 01:52:01,020
ensemble et c'est ça. Trouver un

2802
01:52:01,020 --> 01:52:02,020
moyen pour que les citoyens,

2803
01:52:02,020 --> 01:52:04,020
leurs voix peuvent être

2804
01:52:04,020 --> 01:52:05,020
entendues. Donc ma question,

2805
01:52:05,020 --> 01:52:07,020
c'était: je ne comprends pas les

2806
01:52:07,020 --> 01:52:08,020
aspects légaux par rapport à

2807
01:52:08,020 --> 01:52:11,020
tout ça? >> You can answer me in

2808
01:52:11,020 --> 01:52:12,020
English, thank you.

2809
01:52:12,020 --> 01:52:17,020
>> Well, Miss Maki, I will

2810
01:52:17,020 --> 01:52:20,020
address that question. When I

2811
01:52:20,020 --> 01:52:23,020
heard when Mr. -- got up and

2812
01:52:23,020 --> 01:52:24,020
spoke, and others informed me of

2813
01:52:24,020 --> 01:52:25,020
what happened in the meetings

2814
01:52:25,020 --> 01:52:29,020
and how immediately, people were

2815
01:52:29,020 --> 01:52:34,020
silenced and hushed on speaking

2816
01:52:34,020 --> 01:52:36,020
to the environmental crisis, to

2817
01:52:36,020 --> 01:52:38,020
their survival as a species, to

2818
01:52:38,020 --> 01:52:40,020
the future of the planet,

2819
01:52:40,020 --> 01:52:42,020
somehow that wasn't allowed

2820
01:52:42,020 --> 01:52:44,020
because of an impending lawsuit

2821
01:52:44,020 --> 01:52:46,020
that we don't know the validity

2822
01:52:46,020 --> 01:52:49,020
of. So, what struck me as a

2823
01:52:49,020 --> 01:52:52,020
Democrat is because there's a

2824
01:52:52,020 --> 01:52:53,020
lawsuit, does that mean

2825
01:52:53,020 --> 01:52:55,020
everybody has to be quiet, we

2826
01:52:55,020 --> 01:52:57,020
can't even talk about our

2827
01:52:57,020 --> 01:52:58,020
future? Our survival as a

2828
01:52:58,020 --> 01:53:00,080
species? A lawsuit done ISIS the

2829
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:01,080
ability to do that? I don't

2830
01:53:01,080 --> 01:53:05,080
think so. And as a Democrat, I

2831
01:53:05,080 --> 01:53:07,080
heard what had happened and my

2832
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:09,080
staff will tell you, I was not

2833
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:11,080
very happy when I heard that

2834
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:12,080
people were silenced and not

2835
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:14,080
able to speak to that issue.

2836
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:16,080
That is why I'm doing this

2837
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,080
tonight. As much as anything, to

2838
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:20,080
rectify or wrong, and it was a

2839
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:22,080
wrong. Because there is a

2840
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:23,080
lawsuit, we've heard of all this

2841
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:26,080
impending legal doom. Well,

2842
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:28,080
okay, a lawsuit is worth pretty

2843
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:29,080
good value for dollar. You can

2844
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:31,080
shut up everybody, every

2845
01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:32,080
Democrat in the world if you

2846
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:33,080
just put down a lawsuit. You can

2847
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:34,080
silence and get whatever you

2848
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:37,080
want. Should politics operator

2849
01:53:37,080 --> 01:53:38,080
operate that way? Should we, as

2850
01:53:38,080 --> 01:53:40,080
a Council, operate that way? I

2851
01:53:40,080 --> 01:53:41,080
think we're better Democrats in

2852
01:53:41,080 --> 01:53:43,080
that, that's all. And it's not

2853
01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:45,080
reckless, it's respecting the

2854
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:46,080
people. Does anybody else want

2855
01:53:46,080 --> 01:53:51,080
to speak to that?

2856
01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:53,080
>> So, you know what that is.

2857
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:55,080
- Bonjour Madame Lackey, merci

2858
01:53:55,080 --> 01:53:56,080
pour votre question. C'est une

2859
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:57,080
bonne question: qu'est-ce qu'il

2860
01:53:57,080 --> 01:53:59,080
y a là-dedans qui est illégal?

2861
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:00,040
Ce que moi, je n'ai pas eu

2862
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,040
l'assurance de notre équipe

2863
01:54:02,040 --> 01:54:04,040
juridique pour dire que tout

2864
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:05,040
était légal et qu'il n'y aura

2865
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:07,040
pas de problème futur avec

2866
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:09,040
Cadillac Fairview. Parce qu'ils

2867
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:11,040
sont nommés là-dedans, leur

2868
01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:12,040
terrain est nommée là-dedans.

2869
01:54:12,040 --> 01:54:13,040
Donc Marc, je ne peux pas voter

2870
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:16,040
sur quelque chose sans me faire

2871
01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:17,040
rassurer que le tout est

2872
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:19,040
correct. Parce que ça n'a pas

2873
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:21,040
été rédigé par nos employés,

2874
01:54:21,040 --> 01:54:23,040
cette résolution-là. Alors c'est

2875
01:54:23,040 --> 01:54:26,040
ça mon problème avec. Je suis

2876
01:54:26,040 --> 01:54:28,040
complètement ouverte à des

2877
01:54:28,040 --> 01:54:29,040
consultations concernant

2878
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:31,040
l'environnement, concernant

2879
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:33,040
l'achat des terrains, que ce

2880
01:54:33,040 --> 01:54:35,040
soit la forêt Fairview, que ce

2881
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:37,040
soit des terrains au bord de

2882
01:54:37,040 --> 01:54:40,040
l'eau, etc., Etc.. Mais il faut

2883
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:41,040
aussi, ce n'est pas clair non

2884
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:43,040
plus. On dit des espaces verts,

2885
01:54:43,040 --> 01:54:45,040
mais c'est quoi le but de la

2886
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:46,040
consultation? C'est tout

2887
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:48,040
simplement écrit: espaces verts.

2888
01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:50,040
Mais quoi? D'acheter des espaces

2889
01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:52,040
verts, de développer des espaces

2890
01:54:52,040 --> 01:54:54,040
verts? Il n'y a rien, il n'y a

2891
01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:56,040
rien de plus que le mot: espace

2892
01:54:56,040 --> 01:54:57,040
vert. Donc pour moi, ce n'est

2893
01:54:57,040 --> 01:55:00,000
pas assez précis avec des

2894
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,000
détails. Mais oui, on peut,

2895
01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:04,000
c'est sûr qu'on peut avoir des

2896
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:06,000
consultations. Je n'ai aucun

2897
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:08,000
problème avec ça. Et comme j'ai

2898
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:10,000
dit, il faut en parler, de cette

2899
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:12,000
forêt-là à un moment donné. Mais

2900
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:15,000
moi, je ne voterai jamais pour

2901
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:17,000
une résolution qui nomme la

2902
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:19,000
forêt spécifiquement si je n'ai

2903
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:22,000
pas l'assurance de notre équipe

2904
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:24,000
administratives que le tout est

2905
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:26,000
correct, un. Et je ne pense pas

2906
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:27,000
qu'on devrait faire une

2907
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:29,000
consultation que sur ce

2908
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:31,000
terrain-là. On a plein d'espace

2909
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:33,000
qu'on peut transformer, qu'on

2910
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:34,000
peut accueillir, tu sais, qu'on

2911
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:37,000
puisse avoir, acheter ou peu

2912
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:40,000
importe. Tu sais, Bordeleau,

2913
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:42,000
etc.. Il y a des opportunités

2914
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:45,000
qui nous arrivent. Mais je veux

2915
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:46,000
savoir, il faut consulter les

2916
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:49,000
gens aussi. Comment on va faire

2917
01:55:49,000 --> 01:55:50,000
ça, qu'est-ce qu'on veut

2918
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:51,000
acheter, qu'est-ce qu'on veut

2919
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:53,000
avoir, etc.? Ces précisions-là

2920
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:55,000
ne sont pas là-dedans. C'est

2921
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:59,000
juste écrit les espaces verts.

2922
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:00,060
Ça veut dire quoi ça?

2923
01:56:00,060 --> 01:56:03,060
- Je pense que MU1, excusez-moi,

2924
01:56:03,060 --> 01:56:04,060
MU2, vous savez bien qu'est-ce

2925
01:56:04,060 --> 01:56:05,060
que ça veut dire? Je suis un peu

2926
01:56:05,060 --> 01:56:08,060
surpris d'entendre. Vous n'êtes

2927
01:56:08,060 --> 01:56:12,060
pas déjà en litige avec Sergio?

2928
01:56:12,060 --> 01:56:13,060
Fairview plutôt.

2929
01:56:13,060 --> 01:56:14,060
- Je ne comprends pas.

2930
01:56:14,060 --> 01:56:16,060
- Dans le texte, ce n'est pas

2931
01:56:16,060 --> 01:56:17,060
indiqué MU2 dans le texte de la

2932
01:56:17,060 --> 01:56:18,060
résolution?

2933
01:56:18,060 --> 01:56:19,060
- Oui.

2934
01:56:19,060 --> 01:56:23,060
- Oui! Justement! Justement,

2935
01:56:24,060 --> 01:56:25,060
c'est ça que je suis en train de

2936
01:56:25,060 --> 01:56:27,060
dire. Ça ne devrait pas être une

2937
01:56:27,060 --> 01:56:28,060
consultation juste sur cette

2938
01:56:28,060 --> 01:56:30,060
propriété-là. >> And I believe

2939
01:56:30,060 --> 01:56:31,060
it's the largest natural space

2940
01:56:31,060 --> 01:56:33,060
left in Pointe-Claire.

2941
01:56:33,060 --> 01:56:35,060
>> Yes, I'm not debating that. I

2942
01:56:35,060 --> 01:56:37,060
100% and behind saving the

2943
01:56:37,060 --> 01:56:38,060
forest. That's not what I'm

2944
01:56:38,060 --> 01:56:39,060
saying. I'm saying it's a poorly

2945
01:56:39,060 --> 01:56:41,060
written resolution that needs

2946
01:56:41,060 --> 01:56:42,060
more detail, needs

2947
01:56:42,060 --> 01:56:44,060
clarification, and needs to be

2948
01:56:44,060 --> 01:56:45,060
vetted by our administration

2949
01:56:45,060 --> 01:56:48,060
before I will vote on it. That's

2950
01:56:48,060 --> 01:56:49,060
it.

2951
01:56:49,060 --> 01:56:50,060
>> I would love it if you would

2952
01:56:50,060 --> 01:56:51,060
work with the Mayor and come up

2953
01:56:51,060 --> 01:56:52,060
with a resolution.

2954
01:56:52,060 --> 01:56:53,060
>> Had he brought it to Council,

2955
01:56:53,060 --> 01:56:55,060
we would have. It never came to

2956
01:56:55,060 --> 01:56:56,060
Council.

2957
01:56:56,060 --> 01:56:57,060
>> I would like to comment,

2958
01:56:57,060 --> 01:56:58,060
please.

2959
01:56:58,060 --> 01:57:02,020
>> Yeah? Yes, Councillor Stork?

2960
01:57:02,020 --> 01:57:07,020
>> Okay, sorry. How we got here.

2961
01:57:07,020 --> 01:57:10,020
Okay, what have we done? So, if

2962
01:57:10,020 --> 01:57:11,020
you go back to the history, once

2963
01:57:11,020 --> 01:57:14,020
the lawsuit was put upon us, and

2964
01:57:14,020 --> 01:57:16,020
we put an RCI -- voted

2965
01:57:16,020 --> 01:57:20,020
unanimously to do it. -- So,

2966
01:57:20,020 --> 01:57:22,020
there was time to go through the

2967
01:57:22,020 --> 01:57:23,020
process. So, we have to resolve

2968
01:57:23,020 --> 01:57:25,020
the litigation, we did send a

2969
01:57:25,020 --> 01:57:28,020
letter, we got a reply which was

2970
01:57:28,020 --> 01:57:33,020
a bit shocking. A bit shocking.

2971
01:57:34,020 --> 01:57:36,020
And we are going to have a

2972
01:57:36,020 --> 01:57:37,020
public consultations with every

2973
01:57:37,020 --> 01:57:39,020
administration decided. Through

2974
01:57:39,020 --> 01:57:40,020
the process, we were waiting for

2975
01:57:40,020 --> 01:57:41,020
the process to come to -- we

2976
01:57:41,020 --> 01:57:43,020
were going to talk about shortly

2977
01:57:43,020 --> 01:57:45,020
about that. As we said in

2978
01:57:45,020 --> 01:57:46,020
Council, it's never been a

2979
01:57:46,020 --> 01:57:49,020
discussion. So, as I mentioned

2980
01:57:49,020 --> 01:57:50,020
clearly, when I received all

2981
01:57:50,020 --> 01:57:54,020
those emails and

2982
01:57:54,020 --> 01:57:55,020
congratulations, all of you, for

2983
01:57:55,020 --> 01:57:57,020
doing that, okay? You know, I

2984
01:57:57,020 --> 01:57:58,020
responded to anybody who is in

2985
01:57:58,020 --> 01:57:59,020
my district. I'm not responding

2986
01:57:59,020 --> 01:58:02,080
to some lady in Shibuya mu,

2987
01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:06,080
okay? I apologize, okay? Sorry,

2988
01:58:06,080 --> 01:58:08,080
I did not respond to the point.

2989
01:58:08,080 --> 01:58:12,080
I did not.

2990
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:15,080
>> Are you in Councillor Stork's

2991
01:58:15,080 --> 01:58:17,080
district, monsieur Lapointe?

2992
01:58:17,080 --> 01:58:19,080
>> Thank you, Mayor Thomas, for

2993
01:58:19,080 --> 01:58:21,080
clarifying that. So from there,

2994
01:58:21,080 --> 01:58:23,080
you know, what those letters

2995
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:25,080
that were signed along with the

2996
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:26,080
fact that the conversation I had

2997
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:28,080
with a citizen. Because of the

2998
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:31,080
interactions over the last three

2999
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:33,080
years to not want to discuss

3000
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:35,080
this in caucus, that's what

3001
01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:38,080
pushed me. I said okay, we, I

3002
01:58:38,080 --> 01:58:39,080
think generally, waiting for the

3003
01:58:39,080 --> 01:58:41,080
process to go through, the

3004
01:58:41,080 --> 01:58:42,080
litigation to the RCI, have a

3005
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:44,080
public consultations to come

3006
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:45,080
together with a plan. But

3007
01:58:45,080 --> 01:58:47,080
because of what transpired, I

3008
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:48,080
felt compelled to push the

3009
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:50,080
agenda forward because of the

3010
01:58:50,080 --> 01:58:52,080
letters received, because of my

3011
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:53,080
conversations. So, that's why

3012
01:58:53,080 --> 01:58:54,080
we've come to this because I

3013
01:58:54,080 --> 01:58:56,080
think it's required to be done,

3014
01:58:56,080 --> 01:58:59,080
because all of this animosity,

3015
01:58:59,080 --> 01:59:01,040
this anxiety has to come to an

3016
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:03,040
end and we had a clear plan for.

3017
01:59:03,040 --> 01:59:04,040
What was presented wasn't a

3018
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:06,040
plan. It was not a plan. It

3019
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:07,040
would've been a session where

3020
01:59:07,040 --> 01:59:09,040
people come in and say oh, you

3021
01:59:09,040 --> 01:59:11,040
know, I want six storeys. Did

3022
01:59:11,040 --> 01:59:12,040
anybody hear what I said last

3023
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:14,040
time about the viability of six

3024
01:59:14,040 --> 01:59:16,040
storeys? We have to be told that

3025
01:59:16,040 --> 01:59:18,040
six storeys is not viable

3026
01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:20,040
financially. It'll never happen.

3027
01:59:20,040 --> 01:59:22,040
So, what do we do? We don't

3028
01:59:22,040 --> 01:59:24,040
want, you know, higher

3029
01:59:24,040 --> 01:59:26,040
buildings. Well, you have

3030
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:28,040
height, affordability, and green

3031
01:59:28,040 --> 01:59:30,040
space. They are all interacting.

3032
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:31,040
If you don't want height, yes,

3033
01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:33,040
we can put six storeys

3034
01:59:33,040 --> 01:59:34,040
everywhere. We are going to have

3035
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:37,040
no green space. These are the

3036
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:38,040
variables we have to be educated

3037
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:40,040
on as the other lady just said.

3038
01:59:40,040 --> 01:59:42,040
We need to be educated on these

3039
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:44,040
variables. If we talk about new

3040
01:59:44,040 --> 01:59:46,040
buildings, Mister El Dabee,

3041
01:59:46,040 --> 01:59:48,040
well, I try to clarify when

3042
01:59:48,040 --> 01:59:50,040
whether it be a parking lot, a

3043
01:59:50,040 --> 01:59:52,040
park, or an office building, it

3044
01:59:52,040 --> 01:59:53,040
does not change the amount of

3045
01:59:53,040 --> 01:59:55,040
rain that falls from the sky.

3046
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:57,040
And every time a new building is

3047
01:59:57,040 --> 01:59:59,040
built, whether an industrial

3048
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:02,000
building, which is look at 275

3049
02:00:02,000 --> 02:00:03,000
Hymus. Whether you like

3050
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:05,000
apartments are not. They are

3051
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:07,000
apartments. There are 60 I think

3052
02:00:07,000 --> 02:00:09,000
63% green space, if I'm not

3053
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:11,000
mistaken. And it was industrial

3054
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:13,000
about 20%. We have added green

3055
02:00:13,000 --> 02:00:15,000
space. Not only that, with every

3056
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:17,000
one of these new buildings are

3057
02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:18,000
done they have, to follow the

3058
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:21,000
new codes for water running off

3059
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:24,000
their parking lots. So,

3060
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:25,000
historically, there has been

3061
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:27,000
none. Basically, the water just

3062
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:28,000
ran off on older buildings. Now

3063
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:29,000
you have to limit, you have to

3064
02:00:29,000 --> 02:00:31,000
create catch basins under

3065
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:33,000
parking lots, so the water

3066
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:35,000
runoff does not over Phil and

3067
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:37,000
over surge into our systems. So,

3068
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:38,000
a lot of things that are

3069
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:39,000
happening, all of the changes

3070
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:41,000
that are going on in these new

3071
02:00:41,000 --> 02:00:42,000
developments are actually

3072
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:43,000
helping us. Those are the

3073
02:00:43,000 --> 02:00:45,000
conversations we have to have.

3074
02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:47,000
The educational process that we

3075
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:49,000
have to go through. But as

3076
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:50,000
Councillor Stainforth mentioned,

3077
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:52,000
I'm there to help as much as I

3078
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:54,000
can. But we need facts. We as I

3079
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:55,000
said in my statement, we have to

3080
02:00:55,000 --> 02:00:57,000
put together a concrete, solid

3081
02:00:57,000 --> 02:00:59,000
plan that just doesn't scream,

3082
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:01,060
let's save the Fairview forest.

3083
02:01:01,060 --> 02:01:02,060
We have to work together. We

3084
02:01:02,060 --> 02:01:03,060
have to reach out to other

3085
02:01:03,060 --> 02:01:05,060
people who can finance this. We

3086
02:01:05,060 --> 02:01:07,060
have to put a plan together and

3087
02:01:07,060 --> 02:01:08,060
I don't like to talk about

3088
02:01:08,060 --> 02:01:11,060
financial viability, but it's a

3089
02:01:11,060 --> 02:01:13,060
variable. At the end of the day,

3090
02:01:13,060 --> 02:01:15,060
it's going to come down to that.

3091
02:01:15,060 --> 02:01:16,060
Personally, if I had to pay an

3092
02:01:16,060 --> 02:01:18,060
extra $600, I probably would

3093
02:01:18,060 --> 02:01:19,060
because I can afford it. But

3094
02:01:19,060 --> 02:01:21,060
this is a decision that must be

3095
02:01:21,060 --> 02:01:23,060
made by the whole community, not

3096
02:01:23,060 --> 02:01:25,060
by a group of people or anything

3097
02:01:25,060 --> 02:01:27,060
of that nature. One last, little

3098
02:01:27,060 --> 02:01:28,060
comment, we did receive a letter

3099
02:01:28,060 --> 02:01:30,060
from Cadillac Fairview stating

3100
02:01:30,060 --> 02:01:33,060
that 98% of the wetlands must be

3101
02:01:33,060 --> 02:01:37,060
protected. Okay? No, because I

3102
02:01:38,060 --> 02:01:40,060
will leave it at that. That's

3103
02:01:40,060 --> 02:01:41,060
the answer.

3104
02:01:41,060 --> 02:01:44,060
>> Okay, thank you, Miss Maki.

3105
02:01:44,060 --> 02:01:45,060
Just quickly, Pierrefonds has

3106
02:01:45,060 --> 02:01:48,060
just built, is in the process of

3107
02:01:48,060 --> 02:01:50,060
building a six storey building

3108
02:01:50,060 --> 02:01:52,060
right beside their REM station.

3109
02:01:52,060 --> 02:01:53,060
So, what's good for Pierrefonds

3110
02:01:53,060 --> 02:01:55,060
apparently is not good for

3111
02:01:55,060 --> 02:01:56,060
Pointe-Claire. Councillor

3112
02:01:56,060 --> 02:02:00,020
Tremblay, you wanted to --

3113
02:02:00,020 --> 02:02:01,020
>> Thank you, Councillor

3114
02:02:01,020 --> 02:02:02,020
Tremblay.

3115
02:02:02,020 --> 02:02:03,020
- C'est seulement pour adresser

3116
02:02:03,020 --> 02:02:04,020
la question qui a été posée par

3117
02:02:04,020 --> 02:02:05,020
madame Mackie concernant les

3118
02:02:05,020 --> 02:02:07,020
aspects légaux, etc.. Moi, tout

3119
02:02:07,020 --> 02:02:08,020
ce que j'ai reçu, pour répondre

3120
02:02:08,020 --> 02:02:09,020
à votre question, c'est le

3121
02:02:09,020 --> 02:02:11,020
document. Donc je n'ai rien reçu

3122
02:02:11,020 --> 02:02:12,020
de l'administration par rapport

3123
02:02:12,020 --> 02:02:16,020
à ça. Je ne sais pas, Madame

3124
02:02:16,020 --> 02:02:17,020
Stainforth, d'où vient ces

3125
02:02:17,020 --> 02:02:18,020
informations-là, certaines

3126
02:02:18,020 --> 02:02:20,020
assurances, etc.. Mais tout ce

3127
02:02:20,020 --> 02:02:22,020
que j'ai moi en main, c'est

3128
02:02:22,020 --> 02:02:27,020
décidé sur le point

3129
02:02:28,020 --> 02:02:29,020
6.1.

3130
02:02:29,020 --> 02:02:31,020
- Merci, Conseiller Tremblay.

3131
02:02:31,020 --> 02:02:32,020
Geneviève Lussier?

3132
02:02:32,020 --> 02:02:33,020
Oh, Stewart bran, yes. -

3133
02:02:33,020 --> 02:02:35,020
(inaudible)

3134
02:02:35,020 --> 02:02:37,020
Sorry, Stewart.

3135
02:02:45,020 --> 02:02:47,020
>> That's okay. My name is

3136
02:02:47,020 --> 02:02:50,020
Stewart Brennan, I'm from -- I

3137
02:02:50,020 --> 02:02:52,020
just heard about the meeting

3138
02:02:52,020 --> 02:02:53,020
this morning, so I was actually

3139
02:02:53,020 --> 02:02:57,020
very happy to hear about it. I

3140
02:02:57,020 --> 02:02:58,020
can't understand what everybody

3141
02:02:58,020 --> 02:02:59,020
here or have to people here on

3142
02:02:59,020 --> 02:03:02,080
the Council are up in arms about

3143
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:04,080
it. This is a very important

3144
02:03:04,080 --> 02:03:05,080
topic. This is a very important

3145
02:03:05,080 --> 02:03:10,080
topic that everybody. So, get

3146
02:03:10,080 --> 02:03:13,080
your nose back in straight, work

3147
02:03:13,080 --> 02:03:14,080
together, okay? Who are you

3148
02:03:14,080 --> 02:03:16,080
working for? Are you working for

3149
02:03:16,080 --> 02:03:18,080
us, the citizens? Or are you

3150
02:03:18,080 --> 02:03:22,080
working for special interests?

3151
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:23,080
That's just what it's going to

3152
02:03:23,080 --> 02:03:26,080
come down to. As far as the

3153
02:03:26,080 --> 02:03:29,080
environment goes, look at the

3154
02:03:29,080 --> 02:03:30,080
disasters that have already

3155
02:03:30,080 --> 02:03:31,080
happened with these buildings

3156
02:03:31,080 --> 02:03:32,080
that have gone up on Hymus and

3157
02:03:32,080 --> 02:03:35,080
Del Mar. They used to be green

3158
02:03:35,080 --> 02:03:36,080
spaces. I don't care if a caller

3159
02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:38,080
industrial, it was all green,

3160
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:39,080
okay? And all the animals that

3161
02:03:39,080 --> 02:03:41,080
were there, hit by cars,

3162
02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:42,080
whatever they, had no place to

3163
02:03:42,080 --> 02:03:46,080
go. All that area, okay? What

3164
02:03:46,080 --> 02:03:51,080
happens there? So, you obviously

3165
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:52,080
want to take on the big place,

3166
02:03:52,080 --> 02:03:54,080
the biggest place left, then you

3167
02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:56,080
want to destroy it. That's

3168
02:03:56,080 --> 02:04:00,040
ridiculous. This is not talking

3169
02:04:00,040 --> 02:04:03,040
about finances, finances? This

3170
02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:04,040
is not about finances. This is

3171
02:04:04,040 --> 02:04:08,040
about community. Community and

3172
02:04:08,040 --> 02:04:11,040
people here, okay? The

3173
02:04:11,040 --> 02:04:13,040
environment. That is what the

3174
02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:14,040
environment, the environment is

3175
02:04:14,040 --> 02:04:16,040
community, so I'm telling you,

3176
02:04:16,040 --> 02:04:18,040
get together. I am glad this

3177
02:04:18,040 --> 02:04:20,040
meeting was held tonight because

3178
02:04:20,040 --> 02:04:21,040
we can start to see what's going

3179
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:25,040
on here. Okay? We want to know.

3180
02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:27,040
So, my question is, will you

3181
02:04:27,040 --> 02:04:29,040
pull a referendum for this? We

3182
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:32,040
want to have a say in what's

3183
02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:37,040
going to happen in this Fairview

3184
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:38,040
--

3185
02:04:38,040 --> 02:04:39,040
>> A referendum on what

3186
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:41,040
specifically, Mr. Brennan?

3187
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:43,040
>> On protecting the environment

3188
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:45,040
that you're talking about today.

3189
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:47,040
>> So, a referendum on whether

3190
02:04:47,040 --> 02:04:49,040
Council should work in earnest,

3191
02:04:49,040 --> 02:04:50,040
solely protect the environment?

3192
02:04:50,040 --> 02:04:52,040
>> To protect the environment,

3193
02:04:52,040 --> 02:04:55,040
yes. I ask the people in this

3194
02:04:55,040 --> 02:04:56,040
city if they want to protect

3195
02:04:56,040 --> 02:04:57,040
this environment or they want to

3196
02:04:57,040 --> 02:05:01,000
have it all built up with 25, 27

3197
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:03,000
storey buildings? That's

3198
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:04,000
ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

3199
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:06,000
>> So we, should have a

3200
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:08,000
referendum on height and the

3201
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:09,000
environment?

3202
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:11,000
>> We should have a referendum

3203
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:14,000
on protecting this whole area.

3204
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:16,000
>> Okay, so we will go beyond

3205
02:05:16,000 --> 02:05:17,000
just having consultation. We

3206
02:05:17,000 --> 02:05:19,000
will go to referendum. Can we go

3207
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:24,000
to referendum on that? Caroline

3208
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:27,000
picked a fine time to leave the

3209
02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:30,000
room.

3210
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:31,000
- Mais vous pouvez tenir un

3211
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:32,000
référendum consultatif. >> You

3212
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:35,000
can have a referendum -- we have

3213
02:05:35,000 --> 02:05:36,000
a process for that. Un

3214
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:37,000
référendum consultatif. We need

3215
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:42,000
to have a question, specific.

3216
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:44,000
>> Food for thought, food for

3217
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:45,000
thought.

3218
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:46,000
>> Simple question.

3219
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:48,000
>> Thank you very much, Mister

3220
02:05:48,000 --> 02:05:50,000
Brennan. Geneviève Lucia?

3221
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:55,000
>> If I may, Mr. Bryan, who were

3222
02:05:57,000 --> 02:05:59,000
you referring to when you

3223
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:03,060
mentioned special interests?

3224
02:06:03,060 --> 02:06:05,060
>> Mr. Brennan --

3225
02:06:05,060 --> 02:06:06,060
>> No, no.

3226
02:06:06,060 --> 02:06:08,060
>> Hang on, Mr. Cousineau. We

3227
02:06:08,060 --> 02:06:10,060
are not here to debate. With

3228
02:06:10,060 --> 02:06:12,060
someone in the -- Mr. Bryan --

3229
02:06:12,060 --> 02:06:13,060
>> I'm asking a question!

3230
02:06:13,060 --> 02:06:14,060
>> He answered the question,

3231
02:06:14,060 --> 02:06:16,060
he's going to respond and then,

3232
02:06:16,060 --> 02:06:18,060
but it will not be a debate

3233
02:06:18,060 --> 02:06:20,060
here.

3234
02:06:20,060 --> 02:06:23,060
>> No no, here we go.

3235
02:06:23,060 --> 02:06:24,060
>> Go ahead.

3236
02:06:24,060 --> 02:06:27,060
>> You mention, you mentioned

3237
02:06:27,060 --> 02:06:32,060
special interests at 903. Who

3238
02:06:32,060 --> 02:06:36,060
are you referring to a special

3239
02:06:36,060 --> 02:06:37,060
interest?

3240
02:06:37,060 --> 02:06:39,060
>> Real estate developers.

3241
02:06:39,060 --> 02:06:41,060
>> Very good.

3242
02:06:41,060 --> 02:06:43,060
>> Thank you. Okay, asked and

3243
02:06:43,060 --> 02:06:45,060
answered. Okay, Geneviève Lucy.

3244
02:06:45,060 --> 02:06:46,060
Geneviève Lussier. Thank you,

3245
02:06:46,060 --> 02:06:47,060
Mr. Bennett.

3246
02:06:47,060 --> 02:06:52,060
>> Thank you --

3247
02:06:52,060 --> 02:06:53,060
>> Hi everybody. - Bonjour, tout

3248
02:06:53,060 --> 02:06:54,060
le monde. Excuse my voice, I'm

3249
02:06:54,060 --> 02:06:58,060
fighting a sinus infection. Donc

3250
02:06:59,060 --> 02:07:03,020
quand la réouverture Dieu

3251
02:07:03,020 --> 02:07:04,020
(---)

3252
02:07:04,020 --> 02:07:05,020
d'urbanisme avait débuté, ce que

3253
02:07:05,020 --> 02:07:06,020
j'avais compris, c'est qu'on

3254
02:07:06,020 --> 02:07:07,020
aurait la chance de vraiment

3255
02:07:07,020 --> 02:07:08,020
voir la Ville dans son

3256
02:07:08,020 --> 02:07:10,020
entièreté. On aurait eu la

3257
02:07:10,020 --> 02:07:12,020
chance de discuter de quoi la

3258
02:07:12,020 --> 02:07:15,020
Ville aurait l'air, la Ville de

3259
02:07:15,020 --> 02:07:17,020
Pointe-Claire dans l'année 2024,

3260
02:07:17,020 --> 02:07:20,020
dans l'année 2030, dans l'année

3261
02:07:20,020 --> 02:07:23,020
2050. Et puis un de ces

3262
02:07:23,020 --> 02:07:24,020
items-là, c'est que la Ville de

3263
02:07:24,020 --> 02:07:26,020
Pointe-Claire présentement

3264
02:07:26,020 --> 02:07:27,020
protège seulement 9% de son

3265
02:07:27,020 --> 02:07:29,020
territoire comme espace naturel.

3266
02:07:29,020 --> 02:07:31,020
Bon, c'est vraiment pas assez,

3267
02:07:31,020 --> 02:07:33,020
c'est loin des promesses

3268
02:07:33,020 --> 02:07:34,020
provinciales, c'est loin des

3269
02:07:34,020 --> 02:07:35,020
promesses fédérales, c'est loin

3270
02:07:35,020 --> 02:07:37,020
des promesses de la CMM. Il y

3271
02:07:37,020 --> 02:07:38,020
aura aussi des promesses au

3272
02:07:38,020 --> 02:07:40,020
niveau municipal aussi. Donc on

3273
02:07:40,020 --> 02:07:42,020
n'a pas eu la chance de discuter

3274
02:07:42,020 --> 02:07:45,020
de ces choses. La consultation

3275
02:07:45,020 --> 02:07:46,020
sur l'environnement a vraiment

3276
02:07:46,020 --> 02:07:48,020
discuté des arbres, de

3277
02:07:48,020 --> 02:07:49,020
plantation d'arbres dans les

3278
02:07:49,020 --> 02:07:50,020
cours avant arrière, est-ce

3279
02:07:50,020 --> 02:07:52,020
qu'on devrait avoir des poules.

3280
02:07:52,020 --> 02:07:54,020
Là, ce n'était vraiment pas

3281
02:07:54,020 --> 02:07:55,020
comme ce qu'on pensait qu'on

3282
02:07:55,020 --> 02:07:56,020
avait discuté dans cette

3283
02:07:56,020 --> 02:07:59,020
consultation-là. Donc quand on a

3284
02:07:59,020 --> 02:08:01,080
vu la résolution, on se dit que

3285
02:08:01,080 --> 02:08:02,080
finalement, on va pouvoir

3286
02:08:02,080 --> 02:08:04,080
discuter de l'item, donc je

3287
02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:06,080
n'étais pas conscient du côté

3288
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:07,080
légal du tout, du tout, de ce

3289
02:08:07,080 --> 02:08:08,080
qui se passait, je ne sais pas

3290
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:13,080
si c'est légal de parler de MU2

3291
02:08:13,080 --> 02:08:14,080
parce que la ville est en mitige

3292
02:08:14,080 --> 02:08:15,080
avec Cadillac Fairview, mais que

3293
02:08:15,080 --> 02:08:19,080
je comprends de monsieur Cowan,

3294
02:08:19,080 --> 02:08:20,080
MU2 on n'a jamais reçu les

3295
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:21,080
plans, donc il n'y aurait pas de

3296
02:08:21,080 --> 02:08:22,080
problème. There have never been

3297
02:08:22,080 --> 02:08:23,080
plans for MU2, so essentially

3298
02:08:23,080 --> 02:08:24,080
they shouldn't be any litigation

3299
02:08:24,080 --> 02:08:25,080
related to MU2, that's my

3300
02:08:25,080 --> 02:08:28,080
understanding, okay? O.K.. Donc

3301
02:08:28,080 --> 02:08:30,080
on pourrait aussi retourner la

3302
02:08:30,080 --> 02:08:31,080
forêt sans problème est-ce que

3303
02:08:31,080 --> 02:08:34,080
je comprends. Retourner. Ma

3304
02:08:34,080 --> 02:08:35,080
question originale, quand je

3305
02:08:35,080 --> 02:08:36,080
vais venir à la rencontre ce

3306
02:08:36,080 --> 02:08:39,080
soir, c'était par rapport aux

3307
02:08:39,080 --> 02:08:43,080
que serait le scope de la

3308
02:08:43,080 --> 02:08:44,080
consultation. Qu'est-ce qu'on

3309
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:45,080
discuterait dans cette

3310
02:08:45,080 --> 02:08:46,080
consultation-là. Parce que la

3311
02:08:46,080 --> 02:08:47,080
consultation qu'on a déjà eu sur

3312
02:08:47,080 --> 02:08:48,080
l'environnement était vraiment

3313
02:08:48,080 --> 02:08:49,080
flou, il n'y avait pas de... It

3314
02:08:49,080 --> 02:08:54,080
had no meat to it. On parle

3315
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:55,080
d'arbres, c'était vraiment,

3316
02:08:55,080 --> 02:08:56,080
vraiment immense et ça manquait

3317
02:08:56,080 --> 02:09:00,040
de substance. Donc il y avait

3318
02:09:00,040 --> 02:09:02,040
consultation sur la forêt

3319
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:03,040
Fairview, sur les espaces

3320
02:09:03,040 --> 02:09:08,040
naturels comme l'a dit

3321
02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:10,040
conseillère Tara Stainforth, sur

3322
02:09:10,040 --> 02:09:11,040
les espaces naturels sur les

3323
02:09:11,040 --> 02:09:13,040
terrains privés, qu'est-ce qui

3324
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:14,040
serait dans cette

3325
02:09:14,040 --> 02:09:15,040
consultation-là? Moi, je suis

3326
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:17,040
vraiment intéressé, c'est ça ma

3327
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:18,040
question, c'était ça ma question

3328
02:09:18,040 --> 02:09:19,040
quand je suis arrivé ce soir.

3329
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:22,040
Mais, là ça a été voté, en tout

3330
02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:24,040
cas, non, que la consultation,

3331
02:09:24,040 --> 02:09:26,040
celle-ci ne se passera pas, mais

3332
02:09:26,040 --> 02:09:27,040
je voudrais vraiment savoir

3333
02:09:27,040 --> 02:09:29,040
qu'est-ce que vous avez en tête

3334
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:32,040
par rapport à une consultation

3335
02:09:32,040 --> 02:09:35,040
si elle arrivait dans le futur.

3336
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:36,040
Qu'est-ce qui serait dans cette

3337
02:09:36,040 --> 02:09:38,040
consultation-là? Excuse my voice

3338
02:09:38,040 --> 02:09:39,040
again.

3339
02:09:39,040 --> 02:09:40,040
>> Well, that's part of why the

3340
02:09:40,040 --> 02:09:42,040
resolution was unrelated

3341
02:09:42,040 --> 02:09:43,040
specifically so it couldn't be

3342
02:09:43,040 --> 02:09:44,040
dodge, so we could get to some

3343
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:45,040
of the heart of the issues and

3344
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:46,040
we can get some people who are

3345
02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:48,040
directly involved. So, that was

3346
02:09:48,040 --> 02:09:49,040
part of the strategy in the way

3347
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:52,040
the resolution was constructed.

3348
02:09:52,040 --> 02:09:53,040
Because I agree with you, it has

3349
02:09:53,040 --> 02:09:57,040
to be sharper and on point, and

3350
02:09:57,040 --> 02:10:00,000
the environmental costs. Not

3351
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:02,000
costs, the environmental cost

3352
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:05,000
has to be addressed 100% in the

3353
02:10:05,000 --> 02:10:06,000
consultation and who's to say it

3354
02:10:06,000 --> 02:10:08,000
won't be I'm? In a, good

3355
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:09,000
consultant, I've heard that

3356
02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:10,000
there are very very good

3357
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:11,000
municipal consultants available

3358
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:14,000
who can do that and there are

3359
02:10:14,000 --> 02:10:15,000
effective, there have been some

3360
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:16,000
effective participation

3361
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:18,000
processes that we have heard of.

3362
02:10:18,000 --> 02:10:19,000
So, I'm sorry, I've heard some

3363
02:10:19,000 --> 02:10:21,000
of ours were good. I've heard

3364
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:23,000
mixed reviews, some were not so

3365
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:27,000
good. But I really didn't, like,

3366
02:10:27,000 --> 02:10:28,000
the consultation process

3367
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:29,000
shutting down on the most

3368
02:10:29,000 --> 02:10:31,000
important issue in the city. I

3369
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:32,000
thought that was quite

3370
02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:34,000
astonishing, so that's my only

3371
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:36,000
answer to your question. Unless

3372
02:10:36,000 --> 02:10:39,000
someone else wants to address

3373
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:40,000
it.

3374
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:41,000
>> To be honest, I wasn't sure

3375
02:10:41,000 --> 02:10:42,000
if the questions would come from

3376
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:43,000
the administration and help

3377
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:45,000
formerly the questions that B.C.

3378
02:10:45,000 --> 02:10:48,000
to give us, but that's why,

3379
02:10:48,000 --> 02:10:49,000
like, I was wondering if the

3380
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:50,000
questions could, if we do have a

3381
02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:51,000
consultation on natural spaces

3382
02:10:51,000 --> 02:10:52,000
privately on natural spaces,

3383
02:10:52,000 --> 02:10:53,000
what questions come from. Ou

3384
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:54,000
est-ce que c'était vraiment venu

3385
02:10:54,000 --> 02:10:55,000
de BC2 eux-mêmes, je ne sais

3386
02:10:55,000 --> 02:10:59,000
pas.

3387
02:10:59,000 --> 02:11:00,060
When they come from Council?

3388
02:11:00,060 --> 02:11:02,060
Would they include, okay, if we

3389
02:11:02,060 --> 02:11:03,060
have this much funding from

3390
02:11:03,060 --> 02:11:05,060
federal, provincial, municipal,

3391
02:11:05,060 --> 02:11:07,060
what can we do with that money?

3392
02:11:07,060 --> 02:11:10,060
If half of it is not buildable,

3393
02:11:10,060 --> 02:11:11,060
that decreases the property

3394
02:11:11,060 --> 02:11:12,060
value, and what do we do? You

3395
02:11:12,060 --> 02:11:14,060
know, there are all these things

3396
02:11:14,060 --> 02:11:16,060
that nobody is talking about,

3397
02:11:16,060 --> 02:11:18,060
but need to be talked about. And

3398
02:11:18,060 --> 02:11:19,060
talking about it is going to

3399
02:11:19,060 --> 02:11:21,060
cost 50 million, that's not the

3400
02:11:21,060 --> 02:11:22,060
case when you have a lot more

3401
02:11:22,060 --> 02:11:23,060
discussion around that. So, I'm

3402
02:11:23,060 --> 02:11:25,060
very frustrated with these big

3403
02:11:25,060 --> 02:11:26,060
amounts being thrown out

3404
02:11:26,060 --> 02:11:27,060
constantly. It's a scare tactic

3405
02:11:27,060 --> 02:11:29,060
and I don't like it because we

3406
02:11:29,060 --> 02:11:31,060
need to be talking about

3407
02:11:31,060 --> 02:11:32,060
solutions.

3408
02:11:32,060 --> 02:11:33,060
[Applause]

3409
02:11:33,060 --> 02:11:35,060
Thank you. So, I want to know

3410
02:11:35,060 --> 02:11:37,060
how these other solutions are

3411
02:11:37,060 --> 02:11:39,060
going to be part of that

3412
02:11:39,060 --> 02:11:40,060
discussion. You know, let's not

3413
02:11:40,060 --> 02:11:42,060
throw those big numbers, yes,

3414
02:11:42,060 --> 02:11:43,060
there's going to be a cost and I

3415
02:11:43,060 --> 02:11:44,060
think it's fair to compensate

3416
02:11:44,060 --> 02:11:45,060
Cadillac Fairview, absolutely.

3417
02:11:45,060 --> 02:11:46,060
But what's that number going to

3418
02:11:46,060 --> 02:11:49,060
be? What number is fair? And so,

3419
02:11:49,060 --> 02:11:51,060
there is a lot of little things

3420
02:11:51,060 --> 02:11:52,060
that I feel like have to be

3421
02:11:52,060 --> 02:11:53,060
included in the consultations if

3422
02:11:53,060 --> 02:11:55,060
they do happen. And whether it

3423
02:11:55,060 --> 02:11:56,060
comes in a consultation likely

3424
02:11:56,060 --> 02:11:58,060
format that you're going to be

3425
02:11:58,060 --> 02:12:00,020
proposing or that Brent Cowan

3426
02:12:00,020 --> 02:12:01,020
was, I don't know if you're

3427
02:12:01,020 --> 02:12:03,020
trying to propose or Mayor

3428
02:12:03,020 --> 02:12:04,020
Thomas is trying to propose, I

3429
02:12:04,020 --> 02:12:05,020
don't know what that's going to

3430
02:12:05,020 --> 02:12:07,020
look like but there's so much to

3431
02:12:07,020 --> 02:12:10,020
all of this, you know? Funding

3432
02:12:10,020 --> 02:12:14,020
that comes from subdividing MU1.

3433
02:12:14,020 --> 02:12:15,020
Money is going to come for that.

3434
02:12:15,020 --> 02:12:18,020
You can thank Normand Lapointe

3435
02:12:18,020 --> 02:12:19,020
for those numbers that we can

3436
02:12:19,020 --> 02:12:20,020
discuss at a later date but

3437
02:12:20,020 --> 02:12:21,020
there is another money that can

3438
02:12:21,020 --> 02:12:23,020
come from different places.

3439
02:12:23,020 --> 02:12:25,020
Changing your tax -- for

3440
02:12:25,020 --> 02:12:26,020
example. All these things can

3441
02:12:26,020 --> 02:12:29,020
contribute to a fund and so, I

3442
02:12:29,020 --> 02:12:30,020
guess I'm going off-topic a

3443
02:12:30,020 --> 02:12:32,020
little bit. Sorry. But I just

3444
02:12:32,020 --> 02:12:33,020
really wanted to know what the

3445
02:12:33,020 --> 02:12:35,020
scope of the consultations are

3446
02:12:35,020 --> 02:12:37,020
going to be because it was very

3447
02:12:37,020 --> 02:12:38,020
frustrating to get that last

3448
02:12:38,020 --> 02:12:39,020
consultation about the

3449
02:12:39,020 --> 02:12:40,020
environment and to feel like

3450
02:12:40,020 --> 02:12:42,020
nothing was really being

3451
02:12:42,020 --> 02:12:46,020
discussed of substance. This

3452
02:12:46,020 --> 02:12:48,020
just so much to this, so it

3453
02:12:48,020 --> 02:12:49,020
really needs to be

3454
02:12:49,020 --> 02:12:51,020
comprehensive, it needs to be

3455
02:12:51,020 --> 02:12:55,020
well laid out and all the

3456
02:12:55,020 --> 02:12:56,020
options on the table. I mean,

3457
02:12:56,020 --> 02:12:58,020
I'm not going to say all again,

3458
02:12:58,020 --> 02:13:01,080
all the options, not just, like,

3459
02:13:01,080 --> 02:13:03,080
we've got to pay them 120

3460
02:13:03,080 --> 02:13:05,080
million, like that's not

3461
02:13:05,080 --> 02:13:07,080
realistic. Do not want

3462
02:13:07,080 --> 02:13:08,080
Pointe-Claire taxpayers to pay

3463
02:13:08,080 --> 02:13:10,080
$120 million for that for us,

3464
02:13:10,080 --> 02:13:12,080
that's not realistic. Anyway, so

3465
02:13:12,080 --> 02:13:14,080
I really, sorry, go back to my

3466
02:13:14,080 --> 02:13:18,080
question, -- what are the, what

3467
02:13:18,080 --> 02:13:19,080
would the consultations look

3468
02:13:19,080 --> 02:13:21,080
like?

3469
02:13:21,080 --> 02:13:23,080
>> Well, that's an excellent

3470
02:13:23,080 --> 02:13:25,080
question and I wonder that

3471
02:13:25,080 --> 02:13:27,080
myself. Part of the huge part of

3472
02:13:27,080 --> 02:13:30,080
this process that I somewhat

3473
02:13:30,080 --> 02:13:32,080
regret is that the politicians

3474
02:13:32,080 --> 02:13:34,080
were taken out of the process.

3475
02:13:34,080 --> 02:13:36,080
Because they wanted to

3476
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:37,080
politicize it, so we were all

3477
02:13:37,080 --> 02:13:39,080
removed for the process, so none

3478
02:13:39,080 --> 02:13:41,080
of us could have much say on the

3479
02:13:41,080 --> 02:13:42,080
process or the consultation

3480
02:13:42,080 --> 02:13:44,080
subject matter and how it was

3481
02:13:44,080 --> 02:13:46,080
engaged in. So, you know, I was

3482
02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:48,080
a methodology's at the time, I

3483
02:13:48,080 --> 02:13:50,080
had a research and it was very

3484
02:13:50,080 --> 02:13:52,080
frustrating to stand back and

3485
02:13:52,080 --> 02:13:55,080
that's part of iso want to take

3486
02:13:55,080 --> 02:13:56,080
a role because I've done this

3487
02:13:56,080 --> 02:13:58,080
and studied it, and researched,

3488
02:13:58,080 --> 02:13:59,080
and it's just really frustrating

3489
02:13:59,080 --> 02:14:01,040
to watch. I don't have an answer

3490
02:14:01,040 --> 02:14:04,040
for the. I think that we

3491
02:14:04,040 --> 02:14:07,040
desperately need a structure

3492
02:14:07,040 --> 02:14:09,040
really good methodological

3493
02:14:09,040 --> 02:14:10,040
survey of what people think, and

3494
02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:12,040
it can be done. We've got to get

3495
02:14:12,040 --> 02:14:14,040
the right questions answered and

3496
02:14:14,040 --> 02:14:17,040
asked. And how the people were

3497
02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:21,040
guided is the key question. I

3498
02:14:21,040 --> 02:14:22,040
would like to ask the

3499
02:14:22,040 --> 02:14:25,040
administration who had control

3500
02:14:25,040 --> 02:14:27,040
over the substance of those

3501
02:14:27,040 --> 02:14:29,040
questions in the public

3502
02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:33,040
consultations.

3503
02:14:33,040 --> 02:14:34,040
>>

3504
02:14:34,040 --> 02:14:35,040
- En français ou en anglais?

3505
02:14:35,040 --> 02:14:36,040
- Ce n'est pas grave.

3506
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:37,040
- L'ensemble des consultations

3507
02:14:37,040 --> 02:14:38,040
publiques ont travaillé avec le

3508
02:14:38,040 --> 02:14:39,040
conseil municipal, l'ensemble du

3509
02:14:39,040 --> 02:14:40,040
conseil municipal en atelier

3510
02:14:40,040 --> 02:14:42,040
d'urbanisme. Et après, ça a été

3511
02:14:42,040 --> 02:14:44,040
travaillé conjointement avec le

3512
02:14:44,040 --> 02:14:47,040
consultant. Tous les sujets

3513
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:49,040
qu'on bâtissait un peu à force

3514
02:14:49,040 --> 02:14:50,040
que les consultations allaient

3515
02:14:50,040 --> 02:14:52,040
de l'avant, donc on voyait aussi

3516
02:14:52,040 --> 02:14:53,040
les questions qu'on avait, on

3517
02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:54,040
avait des sondages avec les gens

3518
02:14:54,040 --> 02:14:56,040
qui voulaient aborder des sujets

3519
02:14:56,040 --> 02:14:58,040
et ils ont été discutés en

3520
02:14:58,040 --> 02:15:00,000
atelier d'urbanisme avec les

3521
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:01,000
conseils, on choisissait les

3522
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:02,000
grandes lignes dans la

3523
02:15:02,000 --> 02:15:03,000
consultation publique,

3524
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:04,000
travailler avec notre

3525
02:15:04,000 --> 02:15:05,000
consultant, revenir aussi avec

3526
02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:07,000
des fiches à ce moment, là

3527
02:15:07,000 --> 02:15:08,000
valider certaines informations

3528
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:11,000
et par la suite lancé aux

3529
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:12,000
citoyens.

3530
02:15:12,000 --> 02:15:13,000
- O.K.. Donc il y a eu beaucoup

3531
02:15:13,000 --> 02:15:14,000
de pensées qui ont été mis dans

3532
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:15,000
les questions et dans les sujets

3533
02:15:15,000 --> 02:15:16,000
qui seraient discutés dans les

3534
02:15:16,000 --> 02:15:17,000
consultations.

3535
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:18,000
- Exactement.

3536
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:19,000
- O.K.. >> I would like to

3537
02:15:19,000 --> 02:15:20,000
answer, please.

3538
02:15:20,000 --> 02:15:21,000
>> Go ahead. --

3539
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:24,000
>> As I stated, it's not just a

3540
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:26,000
financial aspect, okay? I stated

3541
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:27,000
in your clearly that we have to

3542
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:30,000
look at the effect upon humans.

3543
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:31,000
You know, that's part of the

3544
02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:33,000
process of -- looking for

3545
02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:34,000
outside sourcing, like

3546
02:15:34,000 --> 02:15:37,000
Councillor Cowan mentioned in a

3547
02:15:37,000 --> 02:15:39,000
recent article. If it's 50

3548
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:40,000
million, where do we get? If we

3549
02:15:40,000 --> 02:15:42,000
can afford 50, I don't know. We

3550
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:43,000
have to get to the bottom of

3551
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:46,000
this and it's all about

3552
02:15:46,000 --> 02:15:47,000
discussing and having

3553
02:15:47,000 --> 02:15:48,000
conversations but we had an

3554
02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:50,000
opportunity to have these

3555
02:15:50,000 --> 02:15:51,000
conversations with Cadillac

3556
02:15:51,000 --> 02:15:53,000
Fairview but they were rejected,

3557
02:15:53,000 --> 02:15:55,000
okay? And a perfect example of a

3558
02:15:55,000 --> 02:15:57,000
question I would ask that

3559
02:15:57,000 --> 02:15:59,000
ponders in my head, we all know

3560
02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:01,060
its private property, okay? We

3561
02:16:01,060 --> 02:16:03,060
all know that it's an uphill

3562
02:16:03,060 --> 02:16:05,060
climb. So, here's just one food

3563
02:16:05,060 --> 02:16:07,060
for thought and this is a

3564
02:16:07,060 --> 02:16:10,060
legitimate question. If we could

3565
02:16:10,060 --> 02:16:13,060
save, let's just say -- we don't

3566
02:16:13,060 --> 02:16:16,060
have whatever amount, no but

3567
02:16:16,060 --> 02:16:18,060
Geneviève, there are a lot of

3568
02:16:18,060 --> 02:16:20,060
stepping stones here so what I'm

3569
02:16:20,060 --> 02:16:22,060
trying to say is for example

3570
02:16:22,060 --> 02:16:24,060
we're against height, okay? For

3571
02:16:24,060 --> 02:16:26,060
some reason which is far from my

3572
02:16:26,060 --> 02:16:28,060
house, pretty much far from his

3573
02:16:28,060 --> 02:16:29,060
house. An intelligent question I

3574
02:16:29,060 --> 02:16:33,060
would ask is that if we can save

3575
02:16:33,060 --> 02:16:36,060
98% of the forest instead of 88,

3576
02:16:36,060 --> 02:16:39,060
what we allow for them to go to,

3577
02:16:39,060 --> 02:16:41,060
three storeys higher in a cement

3578
02:16:41,060 --> 02:16:43,060
parking lot in MU1?

3579
02:16:43,060 --> 02:16:44,060
[Applause]

3580
02:16:44,060 --> 02:16:45,060
Those are the conversations we

3581
02:16:45,060 --> 02:16:46,060
have to have.

3582
02:16:46,060 --> 02:16:47,060
>> 100 percent and that's

3583
02:16:47,060 --> 02:16:48,060
absolutely been part of the

3584
02:16:48,060 --> 02:16:49,060
discussions.

3585
02:16:49,060 --> 02:16:52,060
>> That's the thought process,

3586
02:16:52,060 --> 02:16:57,060
that's the -- that's what I

3587
02:16:57,060 --> 02:16:58,060
asked for the resolution to

3588
02:16:58,060 --> 02:17:01,020
create in the first place. We go

3589
02:17:01,020 --> 02:17:03,020
in saying that six storeys is

3590
02:17:03,020 --> 02:17:05,020
fine if it's in a farmers field

3591
02:17:05,020 --> 02:17:07,020
in Châteauguay. But the property

3592
02:17:07,020 --> 02:17:09,020
has X value, so it's not

3593
02:17:09,020 --> 02:17:12,020
feasible to do that, so we have

3594
02:17:12,020 --> 02:17:14,020
to come into our head is that

3595
02:17:14,020 --> 02:17:15,020
bank won't even finance at, so

3596
02:17:15,020 --> 02:17:16,020
we have to understand that as

3597
02:17:16,020 --> 02:17:18,020
much as we would like to see it,

3598
02:17:18,020 --> 02:17:20,020
we have to come to the

3599
02:17:20,020 --> 02:17:22,020
conclusion that, you know,

3600
02:17:22,020 --> 02:17:24,020
putting triplexes there is not

3601
02:17:24,020 --> 02:17:25,020
financially viable. They will

3602
02:17:25,020 --> 02:17:26,020
get three and a half million

3603
02:17:26,020 --> 02:17:28,020
dollar triplexes. Okay?

3604
02:17:28,020 --> 02:17:29,020
>> Doing it in Kirkland though,

3605
02:17:29,020 --> 02:17:32,020
but anyway. That's another

3606
02:17:32,020 --> 02:17:34,020
thing. -- All over the West

3607
02:17:34,020 --> 02:17:35,020
Island, absolutely.

3608
02:17:35,020 --> 02:17:37,020
>> The -- project, 47 single

3609
02:17:37,020 --> 02:17:39,020
family homes, 12 stories right

3610
02:17:39,020 --> 02:17:40,020
next to the Fairview forest

3611
02:17:40,020 --> 02:17:42,020
across the other side. So like

3612
02:17:42,020 --> 02:17:44,020
my point, is, they looked at the

3613
02:17:44,020 --> 02:17:46,020
whole project, they look at the

3614
02:17:46,020 --> 02:17:48,020
whole thing and it was all

3615
02:17:48,020 --> 02:17:50,020
industrial, so it's a different

3616
02:17:50,020 --> 02:17:53,020
dynamic I. Think when Kirkland

3617
02:17:53,020 --> 02:17:55,020
came at leasing Green because

3618
02:17:55,020 --> 02:17:56,020
they didn't have a Fairview

3619
02:17:56,020 --> 02:17:58,020
forest, it was a great

3620
02:17:58,020 --> 02:17:59,020
compromise. Had proper urban

3621
02:17:59,020 --> 02:18:03,080
planning scope, they had two,

3622
02:18:03,080 --> 02:18:05,080
three storeys across a single

3623
02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:06,080
dwelling homes. As we get

3624
02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:08,080
further away, the urban, like,

3625
02:18:08,080 --> 02:18:10,080
it made sense. So just to your

3626
02:18:10,080 --> 02:18:11,080
point, that's one of the

3627
02:18:11,080 --> 02:18:13,080
questions I think that we have

3628
02:18:13,080 --> 02:18:15,080
to think about. Do we add a

3629
02:18:15,080 --> 02:18:16,080
complex of stories to save some

3630
02:18:16,080 --> 02:18:18,080
green space? What are the

3631
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:19,080
trade-offs? What can we do? How

3632
02:18:19,080 --> 02:18:21,080
do we negotiate this? We didn't

3633
02:18:21,080 --> 02:18:23,080
have a reentered Gauthier. As I

3634
02:18:23,080 --> 02:18:26,080
said, the letters started -- my

3635
02:18:26,080 --> 02:18:27,080
conversation started this and

3636
02:18:27,080 --> 02:18:28,080
enough is enough we. Have to

3637
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:30,080
have a solid plan moving

3638
02:18:30,080 --> 02:18:31,080
forward.

3639
02:18:31,080 --> 02:18:33,080
>> To be fair though, we've been

3640
02:18:33,080 --> 02:18:35,080
here for four years, and months

3641
02:18:35,080 --> 02:18:36,080
ago, months ago, months ago, I

3642
02:18:36,080 --> 02:18:38,080
came here and asked all of you

3643
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:39,080
if you be willing to just look

3644
02:18:39,080 --> 02:18:41,080
at the solutions local funding,

3645
02:18:41,080 --> 02:18:43,080
and you can hear a pin drop in

3646
02:18:43,080 --> 02:18:46,080
here. So that's very

3647
02:18:46,080 --> 02:18:47,080
frustrating. That said, we're

3648
02:18:47,080 --> 02:18:49,080
here tonight, we're all here

3649
02:18:49,080 --> 02:18:51,080
tonight. All I'm hearing right

3650
02:18:51,080 --> 02:18:53,080
now honestly is people who want

3651
02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:55,080
to try to find solutions and we

3652
02:18:55,080 --> 02:18:57,080
are going with that, and looking

3653
02:18:57,080 --> 02:19:00,040
forward to finding solutions,

3654
02:19:00,040 --> 02:19:02,040
and S F F has always been

3655
02:19:02,040 --> 02:19:03,040
willing to work with all of you,

3656
02:19:03,040 --> 02:19:05,040
we made it clear that we might

3657
02:19:05,040 --> 02:19:06,040
have information you might not

3658
02:19:06,040 --> 02:19:08,040
have to access the information,

3659
02:19:08,040 --> 02:19:10,040
whatever. We're willing to work

3660
02:19:10,040 --> 02:19:11,040
with you, we've always wanted to

3661
02:19:11,040 --> 02:19:14,040
try to find a solution to this,

3662
02:19:14,040 --> 02:19:16,040
and so, I'm going off-topic

3663
02:19:16,040 --> 02:19:17,040
again, I apologize --

3664
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:19,040
>> Is there another question,

3665
02:19:19,040 --> 02:19:21,040
Miss Lucian? Because we've got

3666
02:19:21,040 --> 02:19:23,040
an awful lot of people to go

3667
02:19:23,040 --> 02:19:24,040
still.

3668
02:19:24,040 --> 02:19:26,040
>> Anyways, I apologize for

3669
02:19:26,040 --> 02:19:27,040
everybody waiting, but thank

3670
02:19:27,040 --> 02:19:29,040
you. I'm looking for to

3671
02:19:29,040 --> 02:19:31,040
conversations.

3672
02:19:31,040 --> 02:19:33,040
[Applause]

3673
02:19:33,040 --> 02:19:34,040
>> I just want to pick up on a

3674
02:19:34,040 --> 02:19:36,040
couple of points and all of this

3675
02:19:36,040 --> 02:19:38,040
exchange. In Madame Verdun's

3676
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:40,040
response, you heard an urban

3677
02:19:40,040 --> 02:19:41,040
planning and response of the

3678
02:19:41,040 --> 02:19:44,040
question was influenced by the

3679
02:19:44,040 --> 02:19:45,040
discussions in councils urban

3680
02:19:45,040 --> 02:19:47,040
planning meetings, just so you

3681
02:19:47,040 --> 02:19:48,040
know that, so that's a key point

3682
02:19:48,040 --> 02:19:51,040
to take out of this. The next

3683
02:19:51,040 --> 02:19:53,040
point to take out of this is

3684
02:19:53,040 --> 02:19:55,040
that although the height is four

3685
02:19:55,040 --> 02:19:57,040
from Councillor Stork's house,

3686
02:19:57,040 --> 02:19:59,040
height is not far from Heritage.

3687
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:00,000
And people who have to live

3688
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:03,000
right beside height her close to

3689
02:20:03,000 --> 02:20:05,000
height don't enjoy height, and

3690
02:20:05,000 --> 02:20:08,000
we can't disrespect them either,

3691
02:20:08,000 --> 02:20:10,000
so that is a huge variable in

3692
02:20:10,000 --> 02:20:11,000
all this and it's not so simple

3693
02:20:11,000 --> 02:20:13,000
either way., Now I would like to

3694
02:20:13,000 --> 02:20:17,000
go to --.

3695
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:18,000
>> Kim Matthews.

3696
02:20:18,000 --> 02:20:20,000
>> Sorry, Kim Matthews, I've

3697
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:22,000
done it again. Sorry, Kim,

3698
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:23,000
that's my third time tonight, so

3699
02:20:23,000 --> 02:20:26,000
it's not --

3700
02:20:26,000 --> 02:20:28,000
>> So we are done. Hi everybody,

3701
02:20:28,000 --> 02:20:30,000
thank you so much for this

3702
02:20:30,000 --> 02:20:31,000
opportunity to come here and say

3703
02:20:31,000 --> 02:20:33,000
something. First of all, I just

3704
02:20:33,000 --> 02:20:35,000
want to thank you for your

3705
02:20:35,000 --> 02:20:38,000
earlier comments, I really

3706
02:20:38,000 --> 02:20:39,000
appreciated. I know I'm not

3707
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:40,000
supposed to do that, but now

3708
02:20:40,000 --> 02:20:41,000
I've done it. I heard something

3709
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:43,000
at the beginning of this from a

3710
02:20:43,000 --> 02:20:45,000
number of the councillors,

3711
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:47,000
mentioning that there was a

3712
02:20:47,000 --> 02:20:48,000
concern about whether we could

3713
02:20:48,000 --> 02:20:50,000
go forward legally with this. I

3714
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:51,000
certainly have no idea if that

3715
02:20:51,000 --> 02:20:55,000
was possible or not, and that

3716
02:20:55,000 --> 02:20:56,000
our legal department did not

3717
02:20:56,000 --> 02:20:58,000
have anything to say or couldn't

3718
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:00,060
have or didn't say anything at

3719
02:21:00,060 --> 02:21:02,060
the present time. I just wanted

3720
02:21:02,060 --> 02:21:04,060
to, say the questions we asked

3721
02:21:04,060 --> 02:21:06,060
legal have a very big impact on

3722
02:21:06,060 --> 02:21:09,060
what we hear back. So versus can

3723
02:21:09,060 --> 02:21:12,060
we or can we do something versus

3724
02:21:12,060 --> 02:21:14,060
how do we do this so we can do

3725
02:21:14,060 --> 02:21:15,060
this would be the way I would

3726
02:21:15,060 --> 02:21:16,060
like questions asked when it

3727
02:21:16,060 --> 02:21:19,060
comes to anything like this. So

3728
02:21:19,060 --> 02:21:22,060
that was the first part. Mr.

3729
02:21:22,060 --> 02:21:23,060
Tremblay mentioned something

3730
02:21:23,060 --> 02:21:25,060
about not sure if the

3731
02:21:25,060 --> 02:21:26,060
consultation was in favour of

3732
02:21:26,060 --> 02:21:27,060
consultation, but not sure of

3733
02:21:27,060 --> 02:21:29,060
the consultation was really

3734
02:21:29,060 --> 02:21:31,060
necessary on this issue. And I'm

3735
02:21:31,060 --> 02:21:33,060
not sure I caught this right.

3736
02:21:33,060 --> 02:21:34,060
But the thing that came to me

3737
02:21:34,060 --> 02:21:35,060
when I thought I heard you say

3738
02:21:35,060 --> 02:21:37,060
that is that often in politics

3739
02:21:37,060 --> 02:21:39,060
when we want to put something,

3740
02:21:39,060 --> 02:21:41,060
off we consult. And that makes

3741
02:21:41,060 --> 02:21:45,060
me nervous. Because we can spend

3742
02:21:45,060 --> 02:21:48,060
a awful lot of time and money

3743
02:21:48,060 --> 02:21:50,060
keeps coming up and it's

3744
02:21:50,060 --> 02:21:51,060
bothering me to the way numbers

3745
02:21:51,060 --> 02:21:53,060
are thrown out, and I think it's

3746
02:21:53,060 --> 02:21:54,060
already mentioned how money can

3747
02:21:54,060 --> 02:21:56,060
be used as a fuel tactic, and

3748
02:21:56,060 --> 02:21:59,060
that's concerning. But to be

3749
02:21:59,060 --> 02:22:03,020
fair, consultation can put

3750
02:22:03,020 --> 02:22:06,020
people behind, and I'm wondering

3751
02:22:06,020 --> 02:22:08,020
how much more info we need in

3752
02:22:08,020 --> 02:22:09,020
terms of whether or not we need

3753
02:22:09,020 --> 02:22:12,020
to protect the environment. And

3754
02:22:12,020 --> 02:22:14,020
when I'm concerned also that we

3755
02:22:14,020 --> 02:22:16,020
want to make sure that the

3756
02:22:16,020 --> 02:22:20,020
people -- the citizens being

3757
02:22:20,020 --> 02:22:21,020
consulted have the right

3758
02:22:21,020 --> 02:22:25,020
information, the facts. But

3759
02:22:25,020 --> 02:22:26,020
there are a lot of different

3760
02:22:26,020 --> 02:22:27,020
facts, and facts can be spun in

3761
02:22:27,020 --> 02:22:29,020
many different ways, depending

3762
02:22:29,020 --> 02:22:30,020
on the political will and the

3763
02:22:30,020 --> 02:22:32,020
political desire, the social

3764
02:22:32,020 --> 02:22:34,020
desire, the cultural desire of

3765
02:22:34,020 --> 02:22:36,020
those that are asking the

3766
02:22:36,020 --> 02:22:37,020
questions, and I need that to be

3767
02:22:37,020 --> 02:22:41,020
kept in mind. And when we talk

3768
02:22:41,020 --> 02:22:43,020
about an independent consultant,

3769
02:22:43,020 --> 02:22:45,020
independent consultants are

3770
02:22:45,020 --> 02:22:47,020
still being hired by people and

3771
02:22:47,020 --> 02:22:48,020
how are choosing the people we

3772
02:22:48,020 --> 02:22:50,020
choose to talk to us, I know I'm

3773
02:22:50,020 --> 02:22:52,020
getting into a bit of a circle,

3774
02:22:52,020 --> 02:22:55,020
here but bear with me, please.

3775
02:22:55,020 --> 02:22:57,020
So if we do go that route, I

3776
02:22:57,020 --> 02:23:01,080
just hope that a lot of info is

3777
02:23:01,080 --> 02:23:02,080
already available that we can do

3778
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:04,080
this in a way that is as

3779
02:23:04,080 --> 02:23:07,080
balanced as possible. We

3780
02:23:07,080 --> 02:23:08,080
mentioned the last consultation,

3781
02:23:08,080 --> 02:23:10,080
and if I heard the director

3782
02:23:10,080 --> 02:23:11,080
general mentioned that

3783
02:23:11,080 --> 02:23:13,080
determinism worked hard with

3784
02:23:13,080 --> 02:23:14,080
Council. My question, because I

3785
02:23:14,080 --> 02:23:16,080
have to have one and I've got

3786
02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:20,080
one here, is that any decisions

3787
02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:21,080
that are being brought forward I

3788
02:23:21,080 --> 02:23:26,080
would hope at this stage of our

3789
02:23:26,080 --> 02:23:27,080
existence as Pointe-Claire as a

3790
02:23:27,080 --> 02:23:30,080
city that is beautiful and has

3791
02:23:30,080 --> 02:23:31,080
been since I was a little girl

3792
02:23:31,080 --> 02:23:34,080
growing up here, that we

3793
02:23:34,080 --> 02:23:37,080
prioritize the environment every

3794
02:23:37,080 --> 02:23:42,080
step of the way, that I want to

3795
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:46,080
know, will Council work with

3796
02:23:46,080 --> 02:23:48,080
each other in such a manner that

3797
02:23:48,080 --> 02:23:50,080
the environment is not something

3798
02:23:50,080 --> 02:23:52,080
on a checklist down in the

3799
02:23:52,080 --> 02:23:54,080
bottom, but rather, is in the

3800
02:23:54,080 --> 02:23:56,080
title of whatever it is we are

3801
02:23:56,080 --> 02:23:58,080
looking at, and was in that,

3802
02:23:58,080 --> 02:24:00,040
title it is how do we protect it

3803
02:24:00,040 --> 02:24:02,040
as best as possible for future

3804
02:24:02,040 --> 02:24:04,040
generations, not just whether or

3805
02:24:04,040 --> 02:24:06,040
not people are bailing out their

3806
02:24:06,040 --> 02:24:08,040
basements next year, but let's

3807
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:10,040
face it it's a good possibility,

3808
02:24:10,040 --> 02:24:11,040
but what's happening generations

3809
02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:14,040
down the road, because we have

3810
02:24:14,040 --> 02:24:16,040
to think that far ahead. So when

3811
02:24:16,040 --> 02:24:17,040
we are thinking, if we still

3812
02:24:17,040 --> 02:24:19,040
have to go back to issues of how

3813
02:24:19,040 --> 02:24:22,040
much money does this cost, how

3814
02:24:22,040 --> 02:24:23,040
much does it cost, I believe as

3815
02:24:23,040 --> 02:24:24,040
mentioned socially and

3816
02:24:24,040 --> 02:24:25,040
culturally, everything has to be

3817
02:24:25,040 --> 02:24:28,040
taken into -- consideration, so

3818
02:24:28,040 --> 02:24:30,040
I'm saying for the sake of those

3819
02:24:30,040 --> 02:24:32,040
ahead of us, over children and

3820
02:24:32,040 --> 02:24:33,040
great grandchildren, what are

3821
02:24:33,040 --> 02:24:38,040
the cost to be, socially,

3822
02:24:38,040 --> 02:24:39,040
culturally, economically, if we

3823
02:24:39,040 --> 02:24:40,040
are not putting the environment

3824
02:24:40,040 --> 02:24:45,040
first? And so, could you please,

3825
02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:46,040
my question, would you please

3826
02:24:46,040 --> 02:24:47,040
say that you will be

3827
02:24:47,040 --> 02:24:48,040
prioritizing the environment

3828
02:24:48,040 --> 02:24:53,040
going forward? Thank you. Thank

3829
02:24:54,040 --> 02:24:55,040
you.

3830
02:24:55,040 --> 02:24:58,040
[Applause]

3831
02:24:58,040 --> 02:25:00,000
>> Thank you, Ms. Matthews. And

3832
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:01,000
I like the fact that you are

3833
02:25:01,000 --> 02:25:03,000
thinking of generations down the

3834
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:04,000
road, and here's hoping there

3835
02:25:04,000 --> 02:25:05,000
are many generations down the

3836
02:25:05,000 --> 02:25:10,000
road. We'll stop sick, --

3837
02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:12,000
>> Are you sure?

3838
02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:15,000
>> Yes, I'm sure. Ask my staff,

3839
02:25:15,000 --> 02:25:17,000
I got it wrong all the time.

3840
02:25:25,000 --> 02:25:27,000
>> First of all, I want to thank

3841
02:25:27,000 --> 02:25:28,000
Geneviève and all the others who

3842
02:25:28,000 --> 02:25:30,000
have spoken so eloquently,

3843
02:25:30,000 --> 02:25:35,000
better than I can. And I want to

3844
02:25:35,000 --> 02:25:36,000
thank them because of their

3845
02:25:36,000 --> 02:25:39,000
positive approach and citing the

3846
02:25:39,000 --> 02:25:41,000
need to talk and how we should

3847
02:25:41,000 --> 02:25:42,000
talk about saving the

3848
02:25:42,000 --> 02:25:44,000
environment in saving green

3849
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:46,000
spaces in Pointe-Claire, because

3850
02:25:46,000 --> 02:25:50,000
I'm not going to. I'm pretty

3851
02:25:50,000 --> 02:25:55,000
angry and I think that the

3852
02:25:55,000 --> 02:25:57,000
political machinations in the

3853
02:25:57,000 --> 02:26:00,060
city go beyond anything I've

3854
02:26:00,060 --> 02:26:01,060
ever been involved in before,

3855
02:26:01,060 --> 02:26:03,060
and I wasn't activates with the

3856
02:26:03,060 --> 02:26:05,060
FCM in Montréal for many years,

3857
02:26:05,060 --> 02:26:07,060
and I've seen a lot and

3858
02:26:07,060 --> 02:26:08,060
different political

3859
02:26:08,060 --> 02:26:09,060
organizations in different

3860
02:26:09,060 --> 02:26:11,060
community groups, but what goes

3861
02:26:11,060 --> 02:26:15,060
on and in this city is

3862
02:26:15,060 --> 02:26:16,060
outrageous. And I'm going to

3863
02:26:16,060 --> 02:26:21,060
blame you all. But -- I get I

3864
02:26:22,060 --> 02:26:24,060
get so mad. It's unacceptable

3865
02:26:24,060 --> 02:26:25,060
that with the things that are at

3866
02:26:25,060 --> 02:26:27,060
stake in the city, that you have

3867
02:26:27,060 --> 02:26:32,060
screwed it up so bad. And it's

3868
02:26:33,060 --> 02:26:34,060
the entire Council and the

3869
02:26:34,060 --> 02:26:35,060
victim here, the innocent

3870
02:26:35,060 --> 02:26:39,060
victim, is the forest, which can

3871
02:26:39,060 --> 02:26:43,060
speak for itself but. And I'm

3872
02:26:44,060 --> 02:26:46,060
feeling pretty cynical, and I

3873
02:26:46,060 --> 02:26:51,060
think you folks are pretty

3874
02:26:51,060 --> 02:26:52,060
cynical. I want to go back in a

3875
02:26:52,060 --> 02:26:54,060
little bit of history to say why

3876
02:26:54,060 --> 02:26:56,060
to be honest I don't trust you

3877
02:26:56,060 --> 02:27:00,020
in the process going forward. I

3878
02:27:00,020 --> 02:27:01,020
have no trust in you, and I want

3879
02:27:01,020 --> 02:27:06,020
to say why. Right after the

3880
02:27:07,020 --> 02:27:09,020
election, I thought, wow, these

3881
02:27:09,020 --> 02:27:10,020
guys are going to get it

3882
02:27:10,020 --> 02:27:12,020
together because I think with

3883
02:27:12,020 --> 02:27:16,020
the help of monuments, you had a

3884
02:27:16,020 --> 02:27:19,020
good plan. You knew how to go

3885
02:27:19,020 --> 02:27:21,020
forward and you were all

3886
02:27:21,020 --> 02:27:22,020
together, and I thought that's

3887
02:27:22,020 --> 02:27:24,020
pretty darn impressive, and boy

3888
02:27:24,020 --> 02:27:27,020
was I naive, because you tore it

3889
02:27:27,020 --> 02:27:32,020
apart pretty fast., First of

3890
02:27:33,020 --> 02:27:35,020
all, pulling Cadillac Fairview

3891
02:27:35,020 --> 02:27:37,020
out of the freeze, and your

3892
02:27:37,020 --> 02:27:42,020
attempt to, how outrageous. Yes,

3893
02:27:42,020 --> 02:27:44,020
they are a powerful company,

3894
02:27:44,020 --> 02:27:46,020
yes, they've got a lot of money,

3895
02:27:46,020 --> 02:27:50,020
and yes, they sue, but to deny

3896
02:27:50,020 --> 02:27:54,020
us the right to speak and

3897
02:27:54,020 --> 02:27:57,020
pulling them out of the freeze,

3898
02:27:57,020 --> 02:27:58,020
supposedly because we're going

3899
02:27:58,020 --> 02:27:59,020
to get a better deal or

3900
02:27:59,020 --> 02:28:02,080
whatever, that socked, and that

3901
02:28:02,080 --> 02:28:04,080
kind of cynical politics was too

3902
02:28:04,080 --> 02:28:08,080
much for me to bear. Granted,

3903
02:28:08,080 --> 02:28:10,080
you reversed your position

3904
02:28:10,080 --> 02:28:11,080
[Laughter]

3905
02:28:11,080 --> 02:28:12,080
And put them back in, that man,

3906
02:28:12,080 --> 02:28:14,080
it was scary, and you put the

3907
02:28:14,080 --> 02:28:17,080
forest at risk, you put the

3908
02:28:17,080 --> 02:28:18,080
environment of Pointe-Claire at

3909
02:28:18,080 --> 02:28:20,080
risk, you put 30 vulnerable

3910
02:28:20,080 --> 02:28:23,080
species that are already

3911
02:28:23,080 --> 02:28:25,080
documented by Isabelle B saw, a

3912
02:28:25,080 --> 02:28:29,080
scientific biologist, who you've

3913
02:28:29,080 --> 02:28:31,080
had all the information. You put

3914
02:28:31,080 --> 02:28:34,080
it all at risk for politics, and

3915
02:28:34,080 --> 02:28:38,080
that is unacceptable. And then

3916
02:28:38,080 --> 02:28:41,080
you did it again! You pulled

3917
02:28:41,080 --> 02:28:44,080
them out another time, and this

3918
02:28:44,080 --> 02:28:46,080
time supposedly to create, oh, I

3919
02:28:46,080 --> 02:28:48,080
just want to say also, when you

3920
02:28:48,080 --> 02:28:49,080
pulled it out the first time for

3921
02:28:49,080 --> 02:28:51,080
the CDP, I did some reading and

3922
02:28:51,080 --> 02:28:53,080
some research on that, and I

3923
02:28:53,080 --> 02:28:54,080
know comprehensive development

3924
02:28:54,080 --> 02:28:55,080
plans and how they've been done

3925
02:28:55,080 --> 02:28:57,080
in other cities, their

3926
02:28:57,080 --> 02:28:58,080
sweetheart deals for the

3927
02:28:58,080 --> 02:28:59,080
developer. They get to write

3928
02:28:59,080 --> 02:29:01,040
their own deal and make it how

3929
02:29:01,040 --> 02:29:05,040
they like, and the city then

3930
02:29:05,040 --> 02:29:07,040
follows their league almost

3931
02:29:07,040 --> 02:29:09,040
always. Yes, there might be the

3932
02:29:09,040 --> 02:29:11,040
exception, but almost always. So

3933
02:29:11,040 --> 02:29:14,040
there was -- let's be honest, a

3934
02:29:14,040 --> 02:29:17,040
clear prejudice in favour of

3935
02:29:17,040 --> 02:29:21,040
Cadillac Fairview, and that is

3936
02:29:21,040 --> 02:29:22,040
unacceptable to put them ahead

3937
02:29:22,040 --> 02:29:23,040
of the citizens of Pointe-Claire

3938
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:26,040
and ahead of our environment.

3939
02:29:26,040 --> 02:29:28,040
The second time you pulled it

3940
02:29:28,040 --> 02:29:32,040
out, supposedly again, this nice

3941
02:29:32,040 --> 02:29:33,040
hockey or a group that's going

3942
02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:34,040
to get together and chat,

3943
02:29:34,040 --> 02:29:36,040
citizen city and all the lawyers

3944
02:29:36,040 --> 02:29:37,040
and lobbyists, of course, of

3945
02:29:37,040 --> 02:29:40,040
Cadillac Fairview, who are going

3946
02:29:40,040 --> 02:29:42,040
to get together and put together

3947
02:29:42,040 --> 02:29:44,040
a nice little plan about how we

3948
02:29:44,040 --> 02:29:46,040
can go forward in a consensus.

3949
02:29:46,040 --> 02:29:47,040
Baloney. And of course, Cadillac

3950
02:29:47,040 --> 02:29:49,040
Fairview knew it to, and what do

3951
02:29:49,040 --> 02:29:51,040
they do, Cadillac Fairview,

3952
02:29:51,040 --> 02:29:54,040
being the bully, kicked sand

3953
02:29:54,040 --> 02:29:55,040
interfaces, no, we're gonna go

3954
02:29:55,040 --> 02:29:58,040
to court, and sue you. And

3955
02:29:58,040 --> 02:30:00,000
still, you go forward with that

3956
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:05,000
kind of irresponsible plan?

3957
02:30:05,000 --> 02:30:10,000
Again, for me, outrageous. But

3958
02:30:11,000 --> 02:30:15,000
so when the public consultations

3959
02:30:15,000 --> 02:30:18,000
come forward, and here we have a

3960
02:30:18,000 --> 02:30:19,000
situation where finally the

3961
02:30:19,000 --> 02:30:21,000
citizens are going to get there

3962
02:30:21,000 --> 02:30:25,000
say, and has been said, we get

3963
02:30:25,000 --> 02:30:27,000
denied. And actually, the whole

3964
02:30:27,000 --> 02:30:29,000
situation at Fairview Forests

3965
02:30:29,000 --> 02:30:30,000
came up in almost every meeting,

3966
02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:32,000
and it was overwhelming every

3967
02:30:32,000 --> 02:30:33,000
time. The citizens said it

3968
02:30:33,000 --> 02:30:35,000
should be preserved. I was there

3969
02:30:35,000 --> 02:30:38,000
at every meeting. I heard it.

3970
02:30:38,000 --> 02:30:41,000
That was outrageous to deny the

3971
02:30:41,000 --> 02:30:44,000
citizens their voice. You are

3972
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:45,000
representing the citizens of

3973
02:30:45,000 --> 02:30:47,000
Pointe-Claire, and you agreed,

3974
02:30:47,000 --> 02:30:49,000
and you allowed, and you were

3975
02:30:49,000 --> 02:30:50,000
silent when it was well

3976
02:30:50,000 --> 02:30:53,000
understood here in the meeting

3977
02:30:53,000 --> 02:30:55,000
that the citizens had lost their

3978
02:30:55,000 --> 02:30:57,000
voice, and you said nothing.

3979
02:30:57,000 --> 02:31:02,060
What an outrage. But. That kind

3980
02:31:03,060 --> 02:31:06,060
of defeat of democracy and that

3981
02:31:06,060 --> 02:31:09,060
kind of political machinations

3982
02:31:09,060 --> 02:31:10,060
between all of you as

3983
02:31:10,060 --> 02:31:14,060
councillors and the mayor, it's

3984
02:31:14,060 --> 02:31:15,060
unacceptable. You know what,

3985
02:31:15,060 --> 02:31:20,060
what are you doing? And even the

3986
02:31:22,060 --> 02:31:25,060
city said, oh, yeah, you know,

3987
02:31:25,060 --> 02:31:27,060
let's be honest, they pretty

3988
02:31:27,060 --> 02:31:28,060
much said we blew, it will have

3989
02:31:28,060 --> 02:31:30,060
a consultation, let's be honest,

3990
02:31:30,060 --> 02:31:33,060
and we will put it together. And

3991
02:31:33,060 --> 02:31:37,060
then, again, silence, no

3992
02:31:37,060 --> 02:31:38,060
consultations, month after month

3993
02:31:38,060 --> 02:31:40,060
after month, and repeated

3994
02:31:40,060 --> 02:31:42,060
questioning's, here, at City

3995
02:31:42,060 --> 02:31:44,060
Council, and nothing. And you

3996
02:31:44,060 --> 02:31:45,060
blame the Mayor for coming back

3997
02:31:45,060 --> 02:31:49,060
when you did nothing, you all

3998
02:31:49,060 --> 02:31:50,060
silent. And you say you have no

3999
02:31:50,060 --> 02:31:52,060
power. Baloney. You are the

4000
02:31:52,060 --> 02:31:57,060
majority. It's irresponsible.

4001
02:31:57,060 --> 02:31:59,060
Finally, I want to comment and

4002
02:31:59,060 --> 02:32:01,020
again why I don't trust you with

4003
02:32:01,020 --> 02:32:03,020
this process going forward is

4004
02:32:03,020 --> 02:32:06,020
that you are frightening the

4005
02:32:06,020 --> 02:32:07,020
public, and you did it here

4006
02:32:07,020 --> 02:32:09,020
again tonight, over and over

4007
02:32:09,020 --> 02:32:13,020
again, about cost. Baloney.

4008
02:32:13,020 --> 02:32:15,020
[Applause]

4009
02:32:15,020 --> 02:32:18,020
Because you, you -- I don't know

4010
02:32:18,020 --> 02:32:20,020
if you just really ignorant of

4011
02:32:20,020 --> 02:32:22,020
what 39, or you've haven't been

4012
02:32:22,020 --> 02:32:24,020
told yet, the city is still

4013
02:32:24,020 --> 02:32:26,020
researching or whatever, so I

4014
02:32:26,020 --> 02:32:30,020
did some research on myself, and

4015
02:32:30,020 --> 02:32:33,020
that -- and I consulted with an

4016
02:32:33,020 --> 02:32:34,020
environmental lawyer from the

4017
02:32:34,020 --> 02:32:36,020
Québec Environmental centre, and

4018
02:32:36,020 --> 02:32:37,020
I found out the facts, and I

4019
02:32:37,020 --> 02:32:40,020
read about the City of St. Bruno

4020
02:32:40,020 --> 02:32:42,020
and what's been happening there,

4021
02:32:42,020 --> 02:32:43,020
and what's wrong with you

4022
02:32:43,020 --> 02:32:44,020
people? Why don't you either get

4023
02:32:44,020 --> 02:32:46,020
it, or why are you being silent

4024
02:32:46,020 --> 02:32:48,020
about what's happening with the

4025
02:32:48,020 --> 02:32:50,020
rest of Québec? The government

4026
02:32:50,020 --> 02:32:53,020
of Québec has given you a gift.

4027
02:32:53,020 --> 02:32:55,020
They've given you a gift with --

4028
02:32:55,020 --> 02:32:58,020
what is it, maybe the lawyer

4029
02:32:58,020 --> 02:32:59,020
here will correct me, it made

4030
02:32:59,020 --> 02:33:03,080
its article two for five. You've

4031
02:33:03,080 --> 02:33:07,080
been given a gift to be able to

4032
02:33:07,080 --> 02:33:09,080
at much less cost, dramatically

4033
02:33:09,080 --> 02:33:13,080
less cost, if any cost, to

4034
02:33:13,080 --> 02:33:15,080
preserve Fairview Forest, and so

4035
02:33:15,080 --> 02:33:16,080
has, Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville

4036
02:33:16,080 --> 02:33:17,080
as other cities, and the judge

4037
02:33:17,080 --> 02:33:19,080
agreed, the judge in that case

4038
02:33:19,080 --> 02:33:22,080
in the lawsuit agreed, and you

4039
02:33:22,080 --> 02:33:27,080
are doing nothing. Why? Yeah, I

4040
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:29,080
know what you are going to say,

4041
02:33:29,080 --> 02:33:31,080
you are going to say that the

4042
02:33:31,080 --> 02:33:32,080
judge has got back to the

4043
02:33:32,080 --> 02:33:33,080
government and said to find what

4044
02:33:33,080 --> 02:33:35,080
a vulnerable forest is. We know

4045
02:33:35,080 --> 02:33:37,080
how vulnerable Fairview Forest

4046
02:33:37,080 --> 02:33:39,080
is. It's very clear how

4047
02:33:39,080 --> 02:33:43,080
vulnerable it is, right? So

4048
02:33:43,080 --> 02:33:45,080
you've been given these tools,

4049
02:33:45,080 --> 02:33:46,080
and your silent about it, and

4050
02:33:46,080 --> 02:33:47,080
instead you're saying it is

4051
02:33:47,080 --> 02:33:49,080
going to be 15 million, it's

4052
02:33:49,080 --> 02:33:51,080
gonna be 125 million, Eric, what

4053
02:33:51,080 --> 02:33:53,080
was the last figure you gave the

4054
02:33:53,080 --> 02:33:55,080
upper limit? It's ridiculous,

4055
02:33:55,080 --> 02:33:56,080
when in fact, what you need to

4056
02:33:56,080 --> 02:34:01,040
do is cite that law and change

4057
02:34:03,040 --> 02:34:05,040
the bylaws, change what governs

4058
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:07,040
that property, and say it's a

4059
02:34:07,040 --> 02:34:09,040
vulnerable natural space, and it

4060
02:34:09,040 --> 02:34:11,040
must be preserved. That doesn't

4061
02:34:11,040 --> 02:34:12,040
cost a red sent.

4062
02:34:12,040 --> 02:34:16,040
[Applause]

4063
02:34:16,040 --> 02:34:18,040
>> So are you really that

4064
02:34:18,040 --> 02:34:20,040
ignorant of the law, or are you

4065
02:34:20,040 --> 02:34:22,040
covering up? I don't trust you

4066
02:34:22,040 --> 02:34:24,040
anymore, because you are not

4067
02:34:24,040 --> 02:34:25,040
telling the truth, either

4068
02:34:25,040 --> 02:34:27,040
because you don't know it, or

4069
02:34:27,040 --> 02:34:29,040
it's not in favour of your

4070
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:31,040
prejudicial arguments in favour

4071
02:34:31,040 --> 02:34:32,040
of Cadillac Fairview.

4072
02:34:32,040 --> 02:34:34,040
>> Mr. stylistic, is there a

4073
02:34:34,040 --> 02:34:36,040
final question?

4074
02:34:36,040 --> 02:34:40,040
>> How do you expect, and I'll

4075
02:34:40,040 --> 02:34:41,040
put you in touch with that

4076
02:34:41,040 --> 02:34:42,040
lawyer, I'll put you in touch

4077
02:34:42,040 --> 02:34:43,040
with that environmental group,

4078
02:34:43,040 --> 02:34:46,040
and you can learn all the facts.

4079
02:34:46,040 --> 02:34:47,040
I'd be happy to present them

4080
02:34:47,040 --> 02:34:49,040
here to, you let me make the

4081
02:34:49,040 --> 02:34:50,040
presentation to, you he would be

4082
02:34:50,040 --> 02:34:53,040
happy to do it. Find out what

4083
02:34:53,040 --> 02:34:54,040
happened at St. Bruno, final

4084
02:34:54,040 --> 02:34:55,040
what Hudson is, doing find out

4085
02:34:55,040 --> 02:34:57,040
what the others are doing,

4086
02:34:57,040 --> 02:34:59,040
because you don't seem to know.

4087
02:34:59,040 --> 02:35:02,000
And how can you, with your

4088
02:35:02,000 --> 02:35:04,000
political machinations, and

4089
02:35:04,000 --> 02:35:06,000
let's call a spade a spade, your

4090
02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:07,000
hatred for each other, how can

4091
02:35:07,000 --> 02:35:12,000
you function and restore trust

4092
02:35:12,000 --> 02:35:14,000
that you will go forth and not

4093
02:35:14,000 --> 02:35:17,000
do something money to live with

4094
02:35:17,000 --> 02:35:18,000
consultations, I don't know,

4095
02:35:18,000 --> 02:35:20,000
David, what suggestions you may

4096
02:35:20,000 --> 02:35:21,000
consulting people in their own

4097
02:35:21,000 --> 02:35:24,000
homes or whatever, I don't trust

4098
02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:25,000
you in that process. How are you

4099
02:35:25,000 --> 02:35:27,000
going to restore the fate of the

4100
02:35:27,000 --> 02:35:30,000
citizens of Pointe-Claire, that

4101
02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:31,000
you are not fiddling around with

4102
02:35:31,000 --> 02:35:35,000
us yet again.

4103
02:35:35,000 --> 02:35:40,000
>> Thank you.

4104
02:35:44,000 --> 02:35:45,000
>> I will certainly try and

4105
02:35:45,000 --> 02:35:47,000
answer that, Mister Stocek. I am

4106
02:35:47,000 --> 02:35:50,000
well aware going forward to do

4107
02:35:50,000 --> 02:35:52,000
everything I can 100% to save

4108
02:35:52,000 --> 02:35:54,000
the Fairview forest and to enact

4109
02:35:54,000 --> 02:35:56,000
whatever advice you can give me

4110
02:35:56,000 --> 02:35:58,000
until 39, and I will put it in

4111
02:35:58,000 --> 02:35:59,000
the media and I will probably

4112
02:35:59,000 --> 02:36:01,060
put it to another extraordinary

4113
02:36:01,060 --> 02:36:02,060
meeting if need be, because I

4114
02:36:02,060 --> 02:36:04,060
think it's absolutely crucial,

4115
02:36:04,060 --> 02:36:05,060
so thank you for that

4116
02:36:05,060 --> 02:36:07,060
information, that's my answer.

4117
02:36:07,060 --> 02:36:09,060
>> Mister Mayor, --

4118
02:36:09,060 --> 02:36:12,060
>> Mr. Stocek, can you send a

4119
02:36:12,060 --> 02:36:13,060
brief with what you just read,

4120
02:36:13,060 --> 02:36:14,060
and could you just --

4121
02:36:14,060 --> 02:36:15,060
>> I have an email from him

4122
02:36:15,060 --> 02:36:17,060
explaining all the details of it

4123
02:36:17,060 --> 02:36:18,060
--

4124
02:36:18,060 --> 02:36:20,060
>> No, you've done it analysis,

4125
02:36:20,060 --> 02:36:22,060
you've done some homework,

4126
02:36:22,060 --> 02:36:26,060
people are making -- -- because

4127
02:36:27,060 --> 02:36:29,060
I authored and used a number, 50

4128
02:36:29,060 --> 02:36:30,060
million, because that was the

4129
02:36:30,060 --> 02:36:31,060
low end.

4130
02:36:31,060 --> 02:36:32,060
>> That was the low, and to the

4131
02:36:32,060 --> 02:36:34,060
best my understanding, that I'm

4132
02:36:34,060 --> 02:36:35,060
bringing to the tables. I was

4133
02:36:35,060 --> 02:36:40,060
just trying to be realistic. But

4134
02:36:40,060 --> 02:36:41,060
if you have information that

4135
02:36:41,060 --> 02:36:42,060
shows me I'm wrong, I'm

4136
02:36:42,060 --> 02:36:44,060
perfectly willing to read it and

4137
02:36:44,060 --> 02:36:46,060
learn from it. Let's just send

4138
02:36:46,060 --> 02:36:47,060
it in.

4139
02:36:47,060 --> 02:36:49,060
>> I'd be very happy to do that.

4140
02:36:49,060 --> 02:36:52,060
>> When we're in the topic of

4141
02:36:52,060 --> 02:36:54,060
public consultation, there is

4142
02:36:54,060 --> 02:36:56,060
nothing stopping anybody from

4143
02:36:56,060 --> 02:36:58,060
sending stuff like that in and

4144
02:36:58,060 --> 02:36:59,060
whenever they have, it that will

4145
02:36:59,060 --> 02:37:00,020
help, that would be very

4146
02:37:00,020 --> 02:37:03,020
helpful. As I said, what I wrote

4147
02:37:03,020 --> 02:37:05,020
-- what I wrote and people

4148
02:37:05,020 --> 02:37:07,020
commented on is that is not --

4149
02:37:07,020 --> 02:37:08,020
I'm not trying to scare anybody,

4150
02:37:08,020 --> 02:37:09,020
that's what I think.

4151
02:37:09,020 --> 02:37:11,020
>> Why are there surveys going

4152
02:37:11,020 --> 02:37:13,020
out to citizens of the city with

4153
02:37:13,020 --> 02:37:16,020
sweeping questions that their

4154
02:37:16,020 --> 02:37:17,020
taxes are going to be higher?

4155
02:37:17,020 --> 02:37:19,020
>> Let me finish. I find it

4156
02:37:19,020 --> 02:37:22,020
disconcerting for there to be

4157
02:37:22,020 --> 02:37:26,020
this talk about political

4158
02:37:26,020 --> 02:37:27,020
machinations, which all of us,

4159
02:37:27,020 --> 02:37:29,020
there is no politics in that

4160
02:37:29,020 --> 02:37:33,020
sense. We're all --

4161
02:37:33,020 --> 02:37:35,020
[Inaudible]

4162
02:37:35,020 --> 02:37:39,020
>> Listen! We're trying to serve

4163
02:37:39,020 --> 02:37:41,020
you. We're doing the best we

4164
02:37:41,020 --> 02:37:42,020
can. What other possible

4165
02:37:42,020 --> 02:37:44,020
motivation could there be? I

4166
02:37:44,020 --> 02:37:45,020
know you are all cynical and all

4167
02:37:45,020 --> 02:37:47,020
that want to trust, because you

4168
02:37:47,020 --> 02:37:48,020
don't perhaps like the outcomes

4169
02:37:48,020 --> 02:37:52,020
you are getting. And I get that.

4170
02:37:52,020 --> 02:37:54,020
But we are all doing the best we

4171
02:37:54,020 --> 02:37:57,020
can to serve you. What other

4172
02:37:57,020 --> 02:37:59,020
motivation will there be?

4173
02:37:59,020 --> 02:38:04,080
>> I think you have -- wow,

4174
02:38:04,080 --> 02:38:07,080
okay, --

4175
02:38:07,080 --> 02:38:08,080
>> It is not debate period, it's

4176
02:38:08,080 --> 02:38:10,080
a question period, it's -- a

4177
02:38:10,080 --> 02:38:12,080
question period is over.

4178
02:38:12,080 --> 02:38:13,080
>> Time is up on question

4179
02:38:13,080 --> 02:38:16,080
period.

4180
02:38:16,080 --> 02:38:19,080
>> Sorry Nikki Fournier, --

4181
02:38:19,080 --> 02:38:21,080
Nicole corona, if you want to --

4182
02:38:21,080 --> 02:38:23,080
sue stack, I'm sorry that you

4183
02:38:23,080 --> 02:38:24,080
didn't -- we did okay though, we

4184
02:38:24,080 --> 02:38:27,080
got through quite a few. Okay,

4185
02:38:27,080 --> 02:38:28,080
so --

4186
02:38:28,080 --> 02:38:32,080
>> Closure. Do I have a mover

4187
02:38:32,080 --> 02:38:35,080
foreclosure?

4188
02:38:35,080 --> 02:38:36,080
>> Tara Stainforth, district

4189
02:38:36,080 --> 02:38:37,080
four.

4190
02:38:37,080 --> 02:38:38,080
>> And seconder?

4191
02:38:38,080 --> 02:38:40,080
>> Cynthia Homan. District five.

4192
02:38:40,080 --> 02:38:45,080
>> All in favour? Merci tout le

4193
02:38:45,080 --> 02:38:46,080
monde. -- Thank you all. We all

4194
02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:49,080
go home.

4195
02:38:49,080 --> 02:38:51,080
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