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That amazing what I.

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OK.

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OK, now I get that.

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John Yes.

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Can you hear me

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to the.

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Yes. That better? That's all of my IT knowledge in 60

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seconds. Yeah.

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All right. Good deal. So, um, get this back open for the room.

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So this is our April 7th meeting of the Impact the advisory Committee.

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Uh, I apologize to the group for last week. I don't know what it is about these meetings

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that makes me go to the doctor,

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but, but it's landed that way. It's landed that way twice, so I apologize, um. Doesn't

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look like we have any public in the room. So, I think Sean, what we're ready to do

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from this end, I'm gonna get up and. The water adjusted impact feeds. Uh, document

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on the screen in the room here and then if you want to review from last meeting and

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kind of what you did to prep for today and we'll just get started. Sounds good.

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All right, you got the floor. All right, you want, oh, you want me to share what

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I had? Um, I've got what I've got up on our screen is the, the water impact fee

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uh first page exhibit 18. Where you, uh, I think this is where you

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Did the conversion, maybe I pulled the wrong one up. Well, I can, will mine show

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up on the screen if I share my screen?

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It will hang on just a second. I can make that happen.

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OK, hang on. Hang on I bring that Over here.

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Then I have to change, I'm almost there, Sean. I'm almost there.

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Yes, it will show up on our screen. I have you on the main monitor. All right, so

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let me share. Oh, now it says you're not, I'm not allowed to share.

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Oh, hang on. We can get that. Let's see. Uh, make host.

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You are the host.

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All right. Oh, hey, look at that power. OK, sure.

31
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OK, so what we have up here is our You're gonna have

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calculation. Sean, you're gonna have to blow that up quite a bit. Oh yep, can do.

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Oh, too much. Yeah, it's a little too much. That's, that's getting back well back

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up one spot.

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Let's try that. Is that good for both. OK. Let's try that, Sean. All right. So what

36
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we have here is our calculation of what the sewer, let me go to water, sorry, let

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me blow this one up. All right, so calculation of our water impact fee and

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I'll walk kind of briefly through the steps we have in here, but essentially we've

39
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got our different categories going down the left side here. We have our residential

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development, single family detached. Residential development, so all others, so this

41
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is more of your multi-family style, and that's per living unit as well. And then

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we have our commercial, so or anything non-residential, which is based on the meter

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size, and we set that up through a 2 inch meter and then everything greater would

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be calculated based on the actual capacity of that larger meter size. Today, looking

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at that present impact fee column, $3310. Our multi-family

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is 79% of that and then we use the same calculation for our, our non-residential.

47
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So moving over a little, our calculated impact the. would be $6,114 as compared

48
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to today's 3310. So as we went through that last time, oops.

49
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What we talked about doing was coming back and setting the fee at

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70% of the current fee, or sorry, of the calculated fee, so the 6600.

51
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And then it's transitioning that in over 3 years. So what this would do then would

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be to take, here's the, the fee getting up to uh roughly 70% of that over 3 years.

53
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Now, one point, and I have the models up as well, but I assumed a 3.5% inflation.

54
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I know I had that in my notes, but as I saw in your notes, we talked about a different

55
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number, so we just need to, to pick our inflation assumption.

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And that would be our, our total fee. Now, as we talked through this, coming back

57
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to establish a set of. A fee based on a set of fixture units.

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And so in this case, when we went back and did some calculations, we noticed that

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in general, 16 fixture units equaled 1 single family home or one ERU equivalent

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residential unit. And then we set a floor, so this is maybe a discussion point as

61
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well, that we would go no lower than a certain amount of fixture units, and right

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now I've just plugged that at 12. And so what that does is it calculates our base

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impact fee. At 16. Fixture units, so that would be next year

64
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would go from 3310 to 4280 to 4429 to 4584, whatever that timing

65
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transition would be on the water side.

66
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And then that results if you can put that back down there for just a second Sean

67
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and then that results in these different per fixture unit cost in each year over

68
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the transition, right? So the purpose of the floor was if I remember right, if they

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had. 13 fixtures, then they get that per fixture unit amount

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deducted down to 13. But we don't well.

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Is that right? That's talked about. I don't know that we had set the 12 and when

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we talked at our last meeting, but it was something we set a floor. OK, thanks.

73
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So does that sound like where we were last time other than the number of fixtures,

74
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OK, we haven't discussed that. OK. So memory is then that Sean, you and

75
00:09:10,059 --> 00:09:12,009
Rob communicated about the fixture numbers.

76
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No, I, I didn't get that info to him. He took an average. It's pretty complicated

77
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getting that number. So we didn't work, so these numbers didn't come from our average

78
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houses, no, um, I'm partway there. I have all the bathrooms from tax data, but what

79
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I don't have is the other like, um, 40%. Of our dwellings,

80
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30% have one bath, which is 3 fixtures, 40% have two full baths, which are

81
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um 6 fixtures, um, then there's an average of 1. Additional fixture unit, uh, based

82
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on 2100 residents. Um, but I don't have, I haven't worked all the way through it.

83
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OK. But I'm, so, Sean, where, remind me then, where did you get the 16 from? That

84
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was doing a little bit of math at myself and some other folks here, uh, Zach and

85
00:10:12,945 --> 00:10:19,034
um Other folks digging into just kind of what a typical average home would be, so

86
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it may or may not be, it might be a little different than what Polson has, so that's

87
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where we, we can change those numbers. OK. So was that a number you wanted to change,

88
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Dennis or Jamie? I felt like a, a one bedroom apartment or one bedroom house, small,

89
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600 square foot small house should have a substantial reduction in the impact that

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will create. So it should be, in my opinion, quite a little less, the 16 is not that

91
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size house. The 16 was a bigger house, right, so you're maybe what you really want

92
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is a lower minimum. Yes, you want the 12 to come down. I do. OK. What I was hoping

93
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we would accomplish here is that we would have on the top side of the payment schedule,

94
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we would have these being lowered, which it has, it's not as much as I was hoping

95
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for, and the upper side would be greater, offset that. So the bigger houses would

96
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help offset that that smaller house for that amount of impact. Oh, I see what you're

97
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saying. You want more slow, basically you want the curve fixture number to be higher.

98
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I like the per fixture number. I want the per picture numbers the amount of fixtures

99
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in the two bedroom house to be lower than 12. Uh, I don't know where the calculation

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came from the $267 that was for fixture. That was the that was at $6100 divided by

101
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16. OK, right. OK. I didn't, I didn't know where that came from, right, so I mean

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that's why it'd be hard to move that, um, unless we decided 16 was the wrong number.

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But we can certainly lower them. That number of pictures. How many would have. How

104
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many pictures for the 11 bedroom, 1 bathhouse have? It's usually 3 for a full bath.

105
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So that's the, the shower, the sink. In the toilet, um, and then it would have,

106
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I'm not sure how many on the kitchen. Um, I don't know. Part of, part of our challenge

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with our permitting is it's kind of on the honor system when it comes to it, and

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it doesn't make a big permit difference. And so a lot of times the plumbers come

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in here, I've seen it time and time again, and they're guessing at the number of

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fixtures. And so, um, I thought a better way would maybe just seeing what they're

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assessed for. And so that's kind of where I did the deep dive. I was able, on Friday,

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I was able to get all the The data for all the residences um from the Ryan Ryan database,

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so I got that far and started breaking it down, but I hadn't quite crossed the finish

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line with that, but. I think that's something we can get at least based on tax, um,

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and then the other question would be is how far back in time do we want to go. So

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this data goes back to every residence in the city, whether it's was built in 1910

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or last, so we're talking about like the last 3 to 5 years, last 3 to 5 years. We

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weren't trying to go up all the way back. OK. But if you, so if you've got 3 in the

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back. And you've got a sink in the kitchen, right? That's 4 and probably a dishwasher,

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I would assume. That's 5.

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washing machines, 66, and uh probably a laundry would be 7, a laundry. That's the

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washing machine. Well, there's the, the, the laundry sink. We had a laundry sink.

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I mean, I think of the house I had in Missoula, I had 6 fixtures inside, inside,

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um, uh, then, you know. Laundry sinks mandatory or just it would be, no, I guess

125
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they wouldn't be because they do they do it in closets and that sort of thing. But

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they are, I didn't get one and we put a lot of laundry sinks, yeah, yeah. So and

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then the hose bibs outside, um,

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but we weren't, we weren't counting the outside, were we? We were water we would

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for sure we wouldn't.

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Correct. Correct, but we weren't counting irrigation. Well, we, we figured that was

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being picked up with additional cost of in usage. So if we, if we drop that

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number, that minimum number wrong balance to uh. 6, then

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that gets us down to the minimum house, right what I'm after.

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I'm just trying to, trying to get this workforce housing certain help towards that.

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So does it um Since we're calculating the part fixture difference.

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Sean The floor. I mean, whatever that number we set it at.

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If somebody has 8, they're still gonna pay 8 times the perfect fixture

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amount, right? So we're not really losing anything there. The

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And that's what this shows up on the screen if I'm still sharing, so here's your

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number of fixtures down the left side. So $12 the minimum all the way up. Here's

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the current, this would be at 12 fixtures, so actually a $100 decrease and then it

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goes up, right, based on that count. So if we lower those fixtures.

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Then that would get us our, you know, it just, it just scale this more, right? So

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the Dennis's point, if we set it at 8, there's gonna be a fairly deep discount compared

145
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to today, but somebody that's got 16 is gonna pay substantially more. Right, correct.

146
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Sean, can you or maybe remind me why we're at 70% of that number? So for 16 units,

147
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we got 4280 for a fee. And that's 70% of the, that's just a choice we made and there

148
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was, so we just had a conversation and I think you were a little bit higher and that

149
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was a little bit lower and you guys agreed on that. I think I was 60 and you were

150
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80 and we ended up setting 70. But that's not set in stone. That's that's fine. I

151
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mean I just want to,

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and the goal was to start it, so it wasn't all in one first year we got over a three-year

153
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period to get to the 100%, right. So I think the conversation on this end, Sean,

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is moving 12 to 6.

155
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And if we do that, Do we need to change the 16 for some reason?

156
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Possibly it, it maybe needs to be something less, but if I just changed the 6.

157
00:17:23,005 --> 00:17:28,449
Remember it was about break even at at 12, right? We're still kind of at that same

158
00:17:28,449 --> 00:17:33,008
number, right? And so here's your discount now for someone with just 6.

159
00:17:35,066 --> 00:17:42,609
It's discounting it by $1700. As compared to the current BES. That's pretty

160
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substantial, oh yeah. But now you're making it up on your bigger houses. I know that.

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00:17:49,819 --> 00:17:53,054
I mean, I mean, it's certainly adding up. We don't know what the distribution of

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00:17:53,054 --> 00:17:58,589
construction is. Yeah, we don't we don't know what it's gonna add up to. And that's

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00:17:58,589 --> 00:18:02,051
the concern is that we're not collecting enough. We know you know what that's not

164
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your concern. My concern is we're not adding up enough. We're not getting enough

165
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money to pay for. I think if you go back and you look at what's being built for the

166
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last 3 years. You're gonna have minimal amount of one bedroom. That's right. You're

167
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gonna have a whole bunch of 4 bedroom and 5 bedroom. But you're looking at me, I

168
00:18:21,719 --> 00:18:23,013
know what you built and I know what you're building.

169
00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:28,078
You're gonna be in that 20, yeah range,

170
00:18:30,579 --> 00:18:38,006
yeah, yeah, I think so cause so again. I, I'm not opposed to impact fees. I'm, what

171
00:18:38,006 --> 00:18:44,025
I'm trying to do is to see if we can't help these smaller units be able to get more

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of them built more notably, and it's just gonna take a combination of lots of different

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things and that's only one minor piece of it, but we, we had a, uh, strategic planning

174
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session with the city commission last, last Tuesday. Wednesday, Tuesday night,

175
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Tuesday evening, um, and affordable housing was obviously one of the topics and so

176
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I just gave them a snippet of the conversations that we've been having here, um,

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with regard to trying to develop some type of incentives on the affordable housing

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and into the impact and at the same time recognize and encourage and so um. Yeah,

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they were, that was, that was good news. They were glad to hear something. Right,

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00:19:33,739 --> 00:19:38,053
and well, and this is towards James's point because I, I mean, that's obviously something

181
00:19:38,053 --> 00:19:40,489
I live with too about collecting.

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But we have lived with the same impact since 2014, so. A

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70% increase is dramatic, yes, um, for what that will do for our ability to fund

184
00:19:58,051 --> 00:20:04,008
these extra capacity types of projects. So that we just looked at um Sewer? This

185
00:20:04,008 --> 00:20:10,729
was just, this was just water, same thing. The one thing I did want to say though

186
00:20:10,729 --> 00:20:17,003
on the fixture units is there are some weightings to it as an example. A washing

187
00:20:17,003 --> 00:20:24,239
machine is 2, right? Uh, a sink is 1. Uh, a shower,

188
00:20:24,093 --> 00:20:29,077
depends what it is, but a bathtub, like a large bathtub, is 3, so there's different

189
00:20:29,077 --> 00:20:35,077
values. So that's where we come back to the, you know, 12 or 16. It's not just one

190
00:20:35,077 --> 00:20:41,719
for 1. There's a flow factor as part of that as well. So I think once we nail down

191
00:20:42,329 --> 00:20:48,081
what are. What we want our average or typical home to be, and I had changed this

192
00:20:48,081 --> 00:20:55,619
to 12, right? It was 16 before, and then we set our minimum, then that's gonna

193
00:20:55,619 --> 00:21:03,005
drive what that difference is. Between the smaller homes and the bigger homes, or

194
00:21:03,005 --> 00:21:08,055
with more units and less picture units. So then actually this piece that we just

195
00:21:08,055 --> 00:21:15,026
you just discussed is actually more narrative it's more narrative than quantitative

196
00:21:15,026 --> 00:21:22,052
because um. You've got a shower, a sink, and a

197
00:21:22,052 --> 00:21:26,065
toilet in the bathroom, right? Are those all one?

198
00:21:29,088 --> 00:21:36,569
No. No. What's what, so what, what is, what's our weight there? So a bathtub

199
00:21:36,569 --> 00:21:43,989
slash shower is 2. OK. A high efficiency toilet is 1 point.

200
00:21:46,004 --> 00:21:53,729
I can't read this, goodness 1.3 or 1.5 or 1.8, um, and then a sink is one,

201
00:21:53,008 --> 00:22:00,979
I, yeah, sink is one. All right, and so what is a kitchen sink? Kitchen sink

202
00:22:00,979 --> 00:22:08,092
is 20, it's a 2, OK. And then a um. A

203
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a dishwasher, 1.5.

204
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And then the washing machine. 2 2. All right, so that

205
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puts us 24 5 15 here.

206
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24. 2 or 2 bedroom 2 bath. That that's at about 16.5, 7, about 16.5 or 2 or 3 bed,

207
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2 bath. Fixtures, yeah, but with this, this very basic house, we've got 4.

208
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59, so this works out, this works out to 9. The basic house that Dennis was describing

209
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works out to 9 fixtures based on the waiting that you just described.

210
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So if we did 16 and 9.

211
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So 16 still be a base for a typical 9 is our minimum, that would drop that 9 down

212
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to $900 down $900 from today. So it dropped at $900 as opposed to

213
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what were we looking at $1700.

214
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So again, I think, I think part of this is philosophy, part of this is the science,

215
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right, piece of it on how we want to establish this and what our goal is. I think

216
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we've got some wiggle room. We do want to base this just because of the challenges

217
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on these fees around the country. We want to be a little careful, make sure we dot

218
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our I's and cross our T's. But I think if we, if we can set a minimum that look,

219
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this is our base. And this is our typical as the 16 or maybe it's 12, right? That's

220
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just gonna change our numbers around, then we can work, we can work with that and

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document those.

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Well, I think

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I, I mean, I don't have, we could sit down and work through the numbers just like

224
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this for the typical what what were you calling it under the 2 bedroom 33 bed 2 bath,

225
00:24:21,189 --> 00:24:24,589
yeah, we're gonna have to look at plans, but we could go and look at all that that

226
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would give us that whether that 16 is a good number, but I feel like 16 is pretty

227
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close. Would you say it was 16.5? It was about 16.5 because the The ones where it's

228
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like 1.5, it added up to about 16.5 if you put the toothpick it's on the outside

229
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of the house, which is typical, I think um. Yes, it is difficult, and what I have

230
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discovered is not near enough

231
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a whole lot of yard hos anyways, um.

232
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And then so I think we're pretty good with the 16 and like you said, Sean, that might

233
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have to wiggle a little bit, um. And then the 9 becomes the 4.

234
00:25:10,005 --> 00:25:17,459
But under where we're at now, that's only, that's a $900 deduction. Is that enough

235
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where we're trying to go? That's not from from today's number, which is profoundly

236
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low. That's true, I mean. Because it's, there's been so much inflation since 2014,

237
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especially in construction. So we gotta, you know, this is to replace equipment replace

238
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material. I mean, as look at me with

239
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VDI. I don't mean to be yeah, but I know you want it lower, but I, well, you know,

240
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this is the same, same concerns that you've got to make sure we have enough money

241
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to replace this. I quit when the time comes. Agree. I do

242
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it. Um, my, my issue here again is We're trying to, what the idea here was not to

243
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make this so complicated. It was to try to make it so right now, you come in, you're

244
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building a house, it's 3310 bucks, doesn't matter what you build it, right? And I

245
00:26:16,026 --> 00:26:22,949
think here under this method, we get to this this per fixture cost. You can figure

246
00:26:22,949 --> 00:26:28,004
it out for yourself. Well, again, if you're, you know, got 1.25 for this and one

247
00:26:28,004 --> 00:26:32,053
for that and 2 for that, and, well, if I go do a smaller sink, then I can do it,

248
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you know, I, I, I, I don't just think it's getting a little maybe these guys can

249
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answer better than anybody because everyone wants to be dealing with it, but that

250
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seems to be complicating this thing more than I had envisioned to be complicated.

251
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So I mean, you're moving from absolutely no variation to, you know,

252
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calculations of so if you have a toilet that's efficient to toilet, it only counts

253
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as one, and I just think you, you, to me from a builder standpoint coming in here

254
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kind of knowing what to tell their client ahead of time. What the impact is gonna

255
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be is gonna be very difficult. So if there was a way to And Maybe I, I

256
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just can't, I don't think in terms of trying to calculate all these variations of

257
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every little tiny thing, whether it's a shower it's got a showerhead on it that's

258
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an efficiency showerhead versus, I mean, can we, can we just do a a a sink is one

259
00:27:30,003 --> 00:27:35,051
and I mean, the problem is though, like what you just said, right, or a problem is.

260
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:42,028
There's a lawsuit with a cattle spell of whitefish, whitefish and the the lawsuit

261
00:27:42,028 --> 00:27:50,001
in whitefish. was about showering. But the city calculated it wrong. Yes,

262
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yes, I, I, I agree, and I think that's, that's huge to us, but I'm just saying, and

263
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it was carried on. The problem was it was carried on with, and, and hadn't been caught

264
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in the and supposedly from what I've heard, the city knew it and was going to correct

265
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,054
it but that just never got to it getting that correct. I think they were starting.

266
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They were starting, but, but my only point about the showerhead was is that. That

267
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to to to to agree with your point that

268
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You have to be very careful as as we go down this track, then the definition and

269
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the Implementation, you have to be very careful. That's that that's what that has

270
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been, I mean, I like generally where we're headed with this, but that has been my

271
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biggest concern is that um Linda Martel or Rob. Not

272
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in the public, but certainly these three have to be able to say that is this and

273
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that is that from a calculation standpoint. So I, and I think that, so what, what

274
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would you, what do you all give us some feedback.

275
00:29:02,069 --> 00:29:09,014
I like calculating that the 1.5 and stuff is gonna probably possibly cause some complications

276
00:29:10,699 --> 00:29:18,001
and that we're gonna. No. Oh wow. OK. And you're gonna have some.

277
00:29:18,869 --> 00:29:23,989
Contractors that are gonna be honest to a fault, and some that are gonna Purposely

278
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underestimate the number of fixtures and then surprise when you go to show up after

279
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impact fee has been collected, there's more fixtures than what they paid for or they

280
00:29:32,829 --> 00:29:39,003
paid the impact fee for the high efficiency toilet and this that and the other. And

281
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then decided they could cut corners or save money and now none of that stuff is in

282
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and we're on on weight 58, maybe even 10 short.

283
00:29:52,229 --> 00:29:58,099
I would think the impact is for high efficiency would be a lower fixture count, right,

284
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so if they, if they tell us they're putting high efficiency in because it's but it's

285
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more expensive, so they go with the cheaper stuff. Now we're short because we didn't

286
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charge for. The non-efficient. I can tell you what we did in regards to building

287
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permit fees. It's a similar concept, a little bit different application, but

288
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what our problems is we had some contractors that would put a low ball number. Um,

289
00:30:30,077 --> 00:30:35,025
on their building permit applications, and then you get other contractors that were

290
00:30:35,025 --> 00:30:39,949
honest to a fault or they would, they would put the amount what it actually costs,

291
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and we're fighting with these people over here and, and this guy is paying a lot

292
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more than this person and permit fees like in the tune of thousands of dollars in

293
00:30:50,013 --> 00:30:54,089
one application where they had a 4plex, um, and so then what we did is we went to

294
00:30:54,089 --> 00:31:02,079
a table to the. IBC, which was an average, and um Of cost of building

295
00:31:02,079 --> 00:31:08,189
across the nation, and it's, it's not, it doesn't accurately reflect because today's

296
00:31:08,189 --> 00:31:15,989
costing about $300 a square foot, and this table says it's $178 or something like

297
00:31:15,989 --> 00:31:23,189
that, $167 way less, almost half of what it is, but it's consistent and it's fair

298
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and it funds the building apartment the way it was intended to function, and so we

299
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take the square footage. Multiplied by that, it gives you the evaluation, and so

300
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whether you're this person over here, um, or this person regardless of the evaluation,

301
00:31:38,099 --> 00:31:44,066
we do it, we do it off the table in square footage and um it, it's, it's fair for

302
00:31:44,066 --> 00:31:49,017
everyone across whether you're building a larger home or something smaller. It's,

303
00:31:49,219 --> 00:31:53,027
it's fair, and it's based on the state's table. And so I wonder if there's a way

304
00:31:53,819 --> 00:32:00,026
that it would be similar to square footage, if there's a way to Um, I don't know

305
00:32:00,026 --> 00:32:06,013
if it's in the, the ICC or if there's an estimate on fixtures per square footage,

306
00:32:06,038 --> 00:32:09,054
you know, I don't, I don't know, I'm just trying to think out of the box here, but

307
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if there's a way we could look at the plans, it's really easy, boom, here's your

308
00:32:13,078 --> 00:32:19,609
amount. You know, I don't know if, cause you could have one house that has more fixtures

309
00:32:19,609 --> 00:32:23,088
and have the same square footage as another, but, but if there's a way you can because

310
00:32:23,088 --> 00:32:27,609
that's a simple way of doing it. Um, so mother-in-law apartments and things like

311
00:32:27,609 --> 00:32:30,569
that would come into play as well. So if you have a basement that's set up for a

312
00:32:30,569 --> 00:32:35,002
mother-in-law and it has all the kitchen and everything set up in a do, that would

313
00:32:35,002 --> 00:32:39,041
be different than trying to check on it per square foot basis. I, what, what my input

314
00:32:39,041 --> 00:32:45,849
here is let's try to keep it simple, as simple as we can. And, and I mean you, you've

315
00:32:45,849 --> 00:32:51,025
got it totally simple right now. A house is 33,000 bucks, doesn't matter if it's.

316
00:32:52,016 --> 00:32:58,699
40,000 square feet or 10, 5, 2000 square feet, right. So there is, there is a, a,

317
00:32:58,729 --> 00:33:05,025
a one discount for um other residential units which we apply to ADUs um and apartment

318
00:33:05,025 --> 00:33:11,699
buildings and it's, uh, was it Martel probably like is it like 80%. Of the whole

319
00:33:11,699 --> 00:33:19,599
something. I don't remember um. It, it, so instead of paying the 7100. That

320
00:33:19,599 --> 00:33:25,077
doesn't count the admin the our impacts are more like 6100, so there's There's like

321
00:33:25,077 --> 00:33:32,969
a 15% discount. So there's a slight one, but, but you're right, there's either full

322
00:33:32,969 --> 00:33:38,959
price or there's slightly less, but it doesn't accommodate for the higher end or

323
00:33:39,077 --> 00:33:45,068
affordable either. So, so Sean, you kind of here where we're vacillating here, right?

324
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:46,064
I mean, I think.

325
00:33:49,004 --> 00:33:56,579
I think we were all good in quotation until we heard you say

326
00:33:56,949 --> 00:34:04,839
that the fixtures are weighted, which then began to create more complexity with regard

327
00:34:04,839 --> 00:34:10,026
to how it was going to be calculated, our ability to communicate it, so on and so

328
00:34:10,026 --> 00:34:16,668
on. So what, what are your thoughts about the conversation at the moment? Uh, I mean,

329
00:34:16,739 --> 00:34:21,779
I think we, I don't think we have to get into, uh, is it a low flow shower head or

330
00:34:21,779 --> 00:34:28,529
low, you know, 1.6 gallon flush toilet. You can, but I don't know that we have to.

331
00:34:28,839 --> 00:34:34,076
If we're coming back and saying our typical home. I 9 fixture units because it has

332
00:34:34,076 --> 00:34:40,919
a, you know, shower tub, a sink, a toilet, a dishwasher, a washing machine, and a

333
00:34:40,919 --> 00:34:45,889
kitchen sink. I think that can be an easy way to just set your standard and we do,

334
00:34:45,919 --> 00:34:50,006
we don't have to go through it every time we get a schedule. This is what it is,

335
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,051
something you'd have to check. Rob said, double check the ICC every now and then,

336
00:34:54,052 --> 00:34:58,079
make sure we've got the right number in there. And then we just kind of run with

337
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:03,669
it from there and we don't, a sink is a sink, a toilet is a toilet, right? And, and

338
00:35:03,669 --> 00:35:07,083
that makes it a little simpler. I agree with Dennis, how deep do we want to go on

339
00:35:07,083 --> 00:35:13,084
this? Well, probably not too deep. I think we set our, our approach. So an example

340
00:35:13,084 --> 00:35:19,689
of that is in California, we have legislation that fortunately or unfortunately lets

341
00:35:19,689 --> 00:35:25,052
them establish. Fees based on square footage. Now I don't know that water and sewer

342
00:35:25,052 --> 00:35:30,429
really there's a correlation there, but we've used that and we basically just took

343
00:35:30,429 --> 00:35:35,929
an average and said, OK, in this case for the the little district I was working in,

344
00:35:36,012 --> 00:35:42,084
uh, 2000 square feet was the average home, and we use that and extrapolated and it's

345
00:35:42,084 --> 00:35:47,659
come out pretty even. They would have collected about the same amount of money. Overall,

346
00:35:47,075 --> 00:35:52,079
have they kept it a single fee versus this fee that was spread right based on square

347
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:58,719
footage. So I think if we start with the right number. Financially, we should be

348
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,076
good and let's just make sure we keep it as simple as we can from a calculation standpoint.

349
00:36:06,037 --> 00:36:13,959
Yeah. Would it be possible to do like a like a bathroom is so many like 3.4

350
00:36:13,959 --> 00:36:21,087
fixtures, a half bath is 2.4 fixtures, a kitchen is 5 fixtures, and then,

351
00:36:22,012 --> 00:36:27,087
and then we anything extra we add on per unit. Well, I mean,

352
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:35,029
You could, you could, um, and I see what you're doing there where you're building

353
00:36:35,029 --> 00:36:41,429
a package, a package, right? But I, I'll be honest with you, I don't think that's

354
00:36:41,429 --> 00:36:48,649
as simple as this. Because this uh once you understand what's a 1, what's a 2, what's

355
00:36:48,649 --> 00:36:52,729
a 3 or whatever like you have your little conversion, right, um.

356
00:36:55,639 --> 00:37:03,082
Then then Then, then this is pretty much addition. This is addition, right?

357
00:37:03,939 --> 00:37:08,082
Whereas you get into the packages and then you're having to adjust each package based

358
00:37:08,082 --> 00:37:09,006
on each bill.

359
00:37:11,053 --> 00:37:18,409
Man, I, I honestly think this is simpler, right? Um. Is this

360
00:37:18,409 --> 00:37:26,025
covering just the impact fees for, like, are we separating uh the water sewer

361
00:37:26,025 --> 00:37:33,669
with these impact fees? Yeah, because he wouldn't, the I guess maybe not the easiest,

362
00:37:33,087 --> 00:37:38,959
maybe the easiest way to do it is like if you have an incoming only, which is gonna

363
00:37:38,959 --> 00:37:45,055
be like your water heater, your um your outside uh spigots and stuff, then there

364
00:37:45,055 --> 00:37:51,008
are one because they're incoming only and then anything that has incoming outgoing

365
00:37:51,008 --> 00:37:58,209
like a toilet, a shower, or sink. would be 2. If we're not separating waters, does

366
00:37:58,209 --> 00:38:04,078
that make sense? We, we are, yeah, I, I, we are, so I, I, I don't know if that's

367
00:38:04,078 --> 00:38:09,219
how the waiting system is built, tell you that. I, I don't like I just found out

368
00:38:09,219 --> 00:38:17,005
about the waiting system, so, um. My, my, my thing about it is also As

369
00:38:17,005 --> 00:38:22,989
you get a bigger home and you have more fixtures, you're using more water, put water

370
00:38:22,989 --> 00:38:29,007
in this case. So you're paying a higher rate to the as well for the usage of that

371
00:38:29,007 --> 00:38:33,669
water, right? So you're kind of making up a little bit, I shouldn't say making up,

372
00:38:33,709 --> 00:38:41,149
it's offsetting slightly by, by having uh you're, you're paying a higher rate as

373
00:38:41,149 --> 00:38:48,026
you because you're using more water. OK, um. And, and again, I, I, I would

374
00:38:49,028 --> 00:38:54,229
suggest, my opinion is that you don't try to weight these things. You just take the

375
00:38:54,909 --> 00:39:00,659
showers this much, toilets this much, water heater, uh, dishwashers this much. I

376
00:39:00,659 --> 00:39:06,189
mean they're, yes, they may use a little more water, maybe a little bit less. 11

377
00:39:06,189 --> 00:39:13,001
picture is one fixture. So, and we can do that. One, what? Say that, Sean. I said

378
00:39:13,001 --> 00:39:19,005
I think we could do that. What we do is we just say, OK, if if 16.5 is our real one.

379
00:39:19,055 --> 00:39:27,007
We just back into that number or or we just do the math based on its 66 whatever

380
00:39:27,007 --> 00:39:31,709
we wanna call it. It's not really a fixture unit, but we can quantify that and say

381
00:39:31,709 --> 00:39:36,979
it is what it is. We just, I just need to change my little math formula here to make

382
00:39:36,979 --> 00:39:42,669
that work and we could run with that. The weights, it's like 12 I think. So 1, so

383
00:39:42,669 --> 00:39:47,459
if we, yeah, so if we go 1 to 1, that gets us back to where we were talking about

384
00:39:47,459 --> 00:39:53,239
the 6. Right, right, and, and then that's just a matter of you adjusting the map.

385
00:39:54,028 --> 00:39:54,057
Yep.

386
00:39:56,399 --> 00:40:01,000
If it's 12, then it's a higher per rate per, per fixture. So it's, it's gonna be

387
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,075
a. Whatever it is All, all my goal was when we started was to kind of balance out

388
00:40:08,159 --> 00:40:12,439
lower and higher paid more because the people are building a big home can afford

389
00:40:12,439 --> 00:40:17,679
more than the sick person with the best. And, and I think we all wanted to try and

390
00:40:17,679 --> 00:40:22,439
make it as simple as possible because right now, um, even though it is just the one

391
00:40:22,439 --> 00:40:29,399
fee, even explaining the one fee is difficult, right? Whereas if we have this calculated

392
00:40:29,399 --> 00:40:35,929
back into a per fixture fee and one's for one. Then you can count how many fixtures

393
00:40:35,929 --> 00:40:40,085
you have and figure it out yourself. You want to be efficient in your water amount,

394
00:40:40,929 --> 00:40:45,061
you can put a head on your shower that doesn't use toilets, right, less consumption

395
00:40:45,061 --> 00:40:49,077
of water. So you think you can back into those numbers that way, Sean?

396
00:40:52,037 --> 00:40:58,129
I think so. Do you think that makes it, and this is a totally unfair question, but

397
00:40:58,129 --> 00:41:06,008
that's what I do, I ask unfair question. So you think that makes it any. Less

398
00:41:06,008 --> 00:41:07,001
defensible.

399
00:41:09,025 --> 00:41:16,689
No, because we're what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna say, OK, if, if one is one for what

400
00:41:16,689 --> 00:41:23,449
we just talked about, then I'm gonna go back and say, OK, for that same home, what

401
00:41:23,449 --> 00:41:29,053
is, what is the true fixture unit count, and I'm gonna develop a ratio on that math

402
00:41:29,053 --> 00:41:35,037
to set it and so that it'll it'll map out correctly. I think as long as we can show

403
00:41:35,037 --> 00:41:41,056
the math and the how, I think we're OK. Yeah. Or we're better off. I won't say we're

404
00:41:41,056 --> 00:41:47,001
OK because who knows what people will do, but I know. So how does that? How does

405
00:41:47,001 --> 00:41:48,079
that play with Rob and Linda?

406
00:41:50,179 --> 00:41:55,029
If one's one. That's fine. I, I was kind of thinking through it as we're talking,

407
00:41:55,034 --> 00:42:02,909
if for some reason. We went back to the ratio. The idea was to revamp our

408
00:42:02,909 --> 00:42:08,459
plumbing permit, and then they list on there, and it could automatically calculate

409
00:42:08,459 --> 00:42:12,669
online on the PDF or something. I mean, there's there's solutions we can get to that,

410
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:18,002
but um, that being said, my biggest question would be like on remodels, if somebody

411
00:42:18,027 --> 00:42:23,062
adds a bathroom, is that more impact fees or are they grandfathered in? You should

412
00:42:23,062 --> 00:42:27,054
be grandfathered in. I would, that's what I would assume, but I've seen some of these

413
00:42:27,054 --> 00:42:32,027
where they're planning, but the basement's gonna be finished later, um, and so there,

414
00:42:32,078 --> 00:42:34,036
there is, case in point is right here. So he,

415
00:42:36,629 --> 00:42:42,057
he anticipated, and then, uh, two years later, he's installing that building permit,

416
00:42:44,034 --> 00:42:48,078
correct? Yes, um, but in that case, what's the difference between that one and somebody

417
00:42:48,078 --> 00:42:54,469
that's grandfathered in, you know. Uh, like, at what, what, what point in time is

418
00:42:54,469 --> 00:42:58,629
it grandfathered in and it's an interesting question because I never asked that.

419
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:06,003
So did my impact be include the because it's, it's flat rate, yeah, but under this

420
00:43:06,003 --> 00:43:13,007
method. Would we have done that? Well, that's what my question is. Yeah, no, it's

421
00:43:13,007 --> 00:43:19,026
a great question, um, cause I could, I, I'm just trying to find out what I'm thinking

422
00:43:19,026 --> 00:43:26,699
of is we have a certain percentage of the population tries to find loopholes. So

423
00:43:26,699 --> 00:43:31,001
Sean, what do you think about that? Like, so we'll, we'll use my house, right? When

424
00:43:31,001 --> 00:43:37,889
I built my, my house, my wife assured me. That that basement would never be finished.

425
00:43:38,659 --> 00:43:42,008
But because we were pouring concrete, the builder said, we might as well go ahead

426
00:43:42,008 --> 00:43:48,939
and put that stuff in, and if you never use it, you never use it. And now, I'm finished

427
00:43:48,939 --> 00:43:53,929
in the basement. It's very sore subject for me. um.

428
00:43:55,959 --> 00:44:03,079
I am literally doing it. So and my son, so would we based on this method are we

429
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:09,031
only charging for fixtures? Or for potential connections.

430
00:44:12,169 --> 00:44:19,459
OK, we've got about 3 schools of thought here on this question. So the easy one is

431
00:44:19,459 --> 00:44:27,000
there are folks that don't feel like if when you add that new. I'll just say bathroom.

432
00:44:28,009 --> 00:44:33,739
It it's not changing the capacity that they're using. And I, and right, they're just

433
00:44:33,739 --> 00:44:40,139
need a bathroom for when the kids or grandkids come home. I don't, so they'd be grandfathered

434
00:44:40,139 --> 00:44:45,062
in theoretically then, right? However, in reality, we're not, we're not basing it

435
00:44:45,062 --> 00:44:52,899
on the actual use. This is, this is a capacity calculation. It's

436
00:44:52,899 --> 00:44:58,081
based on the potential that you impact the system. So that's where other folks will

437
00:44:58,081 --> 00:45:04,929
say no. If, if you're putting in a new fixture unit, you pay. And then there's some

438
00:45:04,929 --> 00:45:11,033
that are in the middle, and the middle is you set some standard of some. So that

439
00:45:11,033 --> 00:45:17,032
example I gave in that utility district in California, anything under 500 ft does

440
00:45:17,032 --> 00:45:21,081
not, even though there's a square footage base fee, anything under 500 square feet

441
00:45:21,081 --> 00:45:29,032
does not trigger a new an additional impact fee. So the folks in the middle

442
00:45:29,032 --> 00:45:36,052
would say, OK, Ed, you have this all plumbed theoretically. It's there, but you didn't

443
00:45:36,052 --> 00:45:41,051
have anything hooked up to that. Now you have something hooked up and it's over,

444
00:45:41,959 --> 00:45:45,076
you know, 3 fixture units, so now we're gonna ding you and maybe you set that at

445
00:45:45,076 --> 00:45:50,719
a level that seems reasonable that, OK, once it's over 4, you know, somebody takes

446
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:57,219
a small home. Like my, my first rambler, you know, was like 1300 square feet and.

447
00:45:58,026 --> 00:46:03,035
We wanted to put a back end on it, and that would have been a significant change

448
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:10,052
from a plumbing fixture unit perspective that I think with a bathroom and other things

449
00:46:10,052 --> 00:46:14,076
back there, I think would have warranted a fee. So I think that's how more folks

450
00:46:14,076 --> 00:46:19,429
will come back is, OK, if you're just adding. And I'm making up numbers here because

451
00:46:19,429 --> 00:46:23,429
I haven't thought this through far enough, you know, 3 fixture units, you're filling

452
00:46:23,429 --> 00:46:28,909
in your basement. Uh, OK, you hit 4 or 5, now we need to start doing something here

453
00:46:28,909 --> 00:46:33,002
because now you're impacting the system. I think that makes sense and we would collect

454
00:46:33,002 --> 00:46:35,001
that at the time of the building permit, right, Rob? So

455
00:46:37,149 --> 00:46:41,059
we'll play this out like we have been when I came in from my building permit and

456
00:46:41,059 --> 00:46:47,989
you were like, OK, so you're only adding 3 fixtures, so. Under what we just discussed,

457
00:46:48,005 --> 00:46:54,659
right? So you're good, but if I was putting in two new bathrooms. Exceeded that 3

458
00:46:54,659 --> 00:47:00,239
fixture limited at that time on building permit, we would collect additional. Based

459
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,719
on the number of fixtures, based on the number of fixtures. That makes sense to me.

460
00:47:03,084 --> 00:47:09,629
I mean, I, yeah, is it the number of fixtures minus 3. So, or is it just, so in other

461
00:47:09,629 --> 00:47:14,011
words if I do 4, I pay for 4, if I do 3, I pay for none. OK, that's where we were

462
00:47:14,011 --> 00:47:19,959
at, right, Sean? That's unfortunately where we end up, yes. So there's like a trip

463
00:47:19,959 --> 00:47:24,001
wire and if you, if you, if you hit the trip wire, now you're paying for everything.

464
00:47:24,077 --> 00:47:30,899
But the idea was there's a certain margin we'll let go, but then after that it becomes

465
00:47:30,899 --> 00:47:35,005
more than just a one bathroom mat or whatever. If you're adding a a utility sink.

466
00:47:37,005 --> 00:47:44,899
Yeah, that's, that's not worth going back. But if you add the bathroom, that's, that

467
00:47:44,899 --> 00:47:48,057
is an impact and that's so that, that's where I think. So I think, yeah, so I think

468
00:47:48,659 --> 00:47:55,079
part of what we're asking Sean then is that you would then. Help us set that number

469
00:47:55,008 --> 00:48:02,729
as well. So what if that's 5 or 4 or whatever it is. Does that work OK for the

470
00:48:02,729 --> 00:48:09,429
building and planning? Would this apply to All new construction starting on April

471
00:48:09,429 --> 00:48:16,469
7, 2025, or would this apply to that 1970s home that is now finishing their basement?

472
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:21,399
Can we go backwards and make Ed pay? Yeah, cause I'm just, I'm just picturing me.

473
00:48:21,439 --> 00:48:21,489
I mean, I think,

474
00:48:28,659 --> 00:48:32,639
I, I think it's, it is what it is though, right? So if somebody comes in to get a

475
00:48:32,639 --> 00:48:38,229
building permit and the house is in 1970. It's grandfathered or no, it's already

476
00:48:38,229 --> 00:48:42,052
established their customer, so there would be no new impacts even if they're expanding

477
00:48:42,052 --> 00:48:47,078
the use. That's the way our ordinances are written. Then, yeah, but if we're adopting

478
00:48:47,078 --> 00:48:53,419
that moving forward, are we gonna go now go back and scoop in all these other forms?

479
00:48:53,909 --> 00:48:58,087
Because if, if moving forward today, the problem with doing that is, I mean, we already

480
00:48:58,087 --> 00:49:04,689
have an understanding of those units, right? And so now we would be changing that

481
00:49:04,689 --> 00:49:08,979
understanding. I, I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's right. Yeah, so

482
00:49:08,979 --> 00:49:13,037
I, I would think that's, that's, that would be a huge issue and be a political issue.

483
00:49:14,005 --> 00:49:14,033
Yeah, I don't think that

484
00:49:16,062 --> 00:49:22,061
that would be a for me that's a commission decision, but I, I, I. I strongly believe

485
00:49:22,061 --> 00:49:26,006
that you don't, you can't go back to these people who have been here for 40 years.

486
00:49:26,077 --> 00:49:30,239
They went out of battle and all of a sudden, oh, you're gonna be impact these now.

487
00:49:30,489 --> 00:49:37,649
So, so in, in essence what we're saying is that any, not just 1970s, but any unit

488
00:49:37,649 --> 00:49:42,061
that exists prior to the time the, well, I would want clarity. Let's say, um, so

489
00:49:42,061 --> 00:49:46,419
like in Jamie's neighborhood there's a lot of vacant lots. What if somebody went

490
00:49:46,649 --> 00:49:49,061
and let's say your basement was unfinished? I know there was one of your neighbors

491
00:49:49,061 --> 00:49:54,409
had an unfinished basement. Um, So we have a new neighbor who builds a new home.

492
00:49:55,679 --> 00:50:00,989
Then next year you finish your basement, no impact fees because yours already established.

493
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,036
They finish their basement, they have impact fees. So that's where I see these types

494
00:50:04,036 --> 00:50:10,001
of scenarios. But, but if you go up front. I mean, yeah, this is an upfront issue,

495
00:50:10,009 --> 00:50:11,004
you know, upfront.

496
00:50:13,058 --> 00:50:19,027
I don't think the concept appears to make up for lost time. I mean, I, I, I don't

497
00:50:19,027 --> 00:50:23,081
charge impact fees to people who have already had a house under construction already

498
00:50:23,081 --> 00:50:31,008
before when these impact fees went in way back when. So I think the. The more

499
00:50:31,939 --> 00:50:35,087
Like The more complicated it gets.

500
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:43,989
It might like, um, it might seem unfair, but the more complicated it gets, the more

501
00:50:43,989 --> 00:50:51,078
difficult it is to administer and the more likely folks try to avoid,

502
00:50:52,011 --> 00:50:56,083
so they have comfortability they don't do this and and so that was kind of my thinking

503
00:50:56,083 --> 00:51:02,669
is that people did, but I think the point is well taken that whatever we do we have

504
00:51:02,669 --> 00:51:10,009
to be very clear about this point and and. That has to be clear and and black and

505
00:51:10,009 --> 00:51:14,409
white written as to whatever we proposed as to how the grandfather yeah perfect.

506
00:51:17,949 --> 00:51:21,989
there was a lot of confusion when we first did impacting. I've been here forever,

507
00:51:22,007 --> 00:51:27,054
so I remember when we started it, I was on the first committee to start these, and

508
00:51:27,075 --> 00:51:33,429
the motion on the floor at the time for the impact fees was any subdivisions that

509
00:51:33,429 --> 00:51:38,419
are in final plan approval or preliminary plant approval will not pay impact fees.

510
00:51:38,669 --> 00:51:46,008
Well, that didn't fly, but the that that was the way that was written. What

511
00:51:46,008 --> 00:51:51,129
happened was that they ended this city end up saying anything that's in the final

512
00:51:51,129 --> 00:51:59,027
plan will not have to pay in fact feeds. So, um, There was a lot of discussion

513
00:51:59,027 --> 00:52:04,007
about that and rather than fight about it, said, OK, fine, we'll, we'll go along

514
00:52:04,007 --> 00:52:10,709
with it, but that's not what Concourse's motion was. So in this case, I think when

515
00:52:10,709 --> 00:52:14,058
the city council decides to do this, we have to have a starting date. At this point,

516
00:52:15,059 --> 00:52:19,149
any new construction that's gonna pay impact fees, this is the way it is. And if

517
00:52:19,149 --> 00:52:25,055
you do a basement, you gotta refinish it later, you gotta pay, you will pay the impact

518
00:52:25,055 --> 00:52:31,086
fees at that point you know it. Rather than Because, cause what we were doing, we

519
00:52:31,086 --> 00:52:38,009
had people who have bought lots already. In a preliminary plot situation, who came

520
00:52:38,009 --> 00:52:44,005
back to why I know anything about. So we gotta be really careful about starting point

521
00:52:44,005 --> 00:52:49,129
here. Yeah, the idea of what we call vested rights, you know, where they, they vested

522
00:52:49,129 --> 00:52:54,129
in, and well they, you know, they're, you're talking about that dependive just being

523
00:52:54,129 --> 00:53:00,076
very clear. Yeah. Anybody that's pay back already does not pay another impact more.

524
00:53:01,379 --> 00:53:06,239
Let me see if I'm, if I'm moving with where we're at at the moment. We're working

525
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:14,028
with a 70% increase transitioned over 3 years. We Task Shaw

526
00:53:14,028 --> 00:53:20,479
to one fixture equals 1 fixture and that adjusts the 16 and the 9 or whatever it

527
00:53:20,479 --> 00:53:27,379
is whatever it is. That gives us a per fixture amount. The proposal would have to

528
00:53:27,379 --> 00:53:32,689
be very clear about exactly what the date is for the grandfathering before and after

529
00:53:32,899 --> 00:53:38,129
in terms of these these types of issues, and then we would need to be very clear

530
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:46,051
about. The Number where the impact be kicks in. Yeah.

531
00:53:48,739 --> 00:53:55,054
And on that point, I think one thing, Ed, you can do is on that grandfathering is

532
00:53:55,054 --> 00:54:02,025
you can put an end date to that. So look, you get 1 year or 2 years so that people

533
00:54:02,025 --> 00:54:07,639
are aware if they want, they can do it right now, they don't pay the incremental,

534
00:54:07,077 --> 00:54:13,053
but at some point when this time passes, they can. So some folks have done that to

535
00:54:13,053 --> 00:54:19,087
Dennis's point, it can get confusing, but that is one way people work that. OK

536
00:54:22,029 --> 00:54:28,075
I, I think it's so notifying everybody and that, I mean, I just, I don't, so we have

537
00:54:28,075 --> 00:54:36,057
these, we have these per fixture impact these just being theoretical, um. And that

538
00:54:36,057 --> 00:54:40,057
works for residences.

539
00:54:42,169 --> 00:54:49,379
Do we use the same method for non-resident Sean? So, so these numbers here, this

540
00:54:49,379 --> 00:54:56,979
is sewer. So these are now the 3 quarters. So if we come back here.

541
00:54:58,012 --> 00:55:02,011
Then whatever we set for the residential.

542
00:55:05,469 --> 00:55:10,149
Blow this up a little bit. Whatever the fee is for the residential is what the 3/4

543
00:55:10,149 --> 00:55:15,219
inch is for non-residential, and then it increases based on the meter capacity, water

544
00:55:15,051 --> 00:55:22,419
and sewer. OK, so once we get into non-residential, anything over the the 3

545
00:55:22,419 --> 00:55:23,139
quarter.

546
00:55:25,209 --> 00:55:33,000
Then they just get a flat fee basically. Yep, correct. OK, that's good. Um, currently

547
00:55:33,025 --> 00:55:40,399
on our impact fee once you go over 2 inch, um, then it's based on

548
00:55:40,729 --> 00:55:48,037
yearly average demand and the equivalent units and we did, OK. Yep,

549
00:55:48,082 --> 00:55:50,003
and I wouldn't change that.

550
00:55:53,061 --> 00:55:59,075
I think I shared with most of the group, my horror story is a lumber mill. They didn't

551
00:55:59,075 --> 00:56:04,027
want a 12 inch, they wanted 26 inches because it was cheaper for the impact fee,

552
00:56:04,028 --> 00:56:09,051
and we said actually no, it's like 10 times what you think it's gonna be because

553
00:56:09,051 --> 00:56:12,006
of what you just said, cause their capacity is different.

554
00:56:16,057 --> 00:56:24,003
OK. So, I know you had some trepidation about this when we talked after the

555
00:56:24,003 --> 00:56:29,008
last committee. What are you thinking now? Um, I think it would just be time for

556
00:56:31,012 --> 00:56:37,031
Just adjusting and I think it's now if we wanted to do that, um, I think conceptually

557
00:56:37,056 --> 00:56:44,969
I like um where, where they're going, um, implementation time, my biggest concern

558
00:56:44,969 --> 00:56:52,489
is people loopholes or Doing projects without the permits, um, and people do that

559
00:56:52,489 --> 00:56:57,085
already and or we, we'll fight with them over impact fees, and I don't know why,

560
00:56:57,879 --> 00:57:03,079
but impact fees for whatever reason, it's, um, I understand the necessity and I agree

561
00:57:03,079 --> 00:57:09,059
with them. It's just public perception is a noise. But it's, but that's gonna, I

562
00:57:09,059 --> 00:57:14,059
mean, forgive me, but that's gonna kind of be the case whether they're paying a flat

563
00:57:14,059 --> 00:57:21,075
fee or per fixture. If they don't want to pay the fee, they may try and do

564
00:57:21,075 --> 00:57:25,139
the project without a building permit anyways fair.

565
00:57:27,179 --> 00:57:35,052
Yeah, and in this case. We're actually giving him an opportunity. To pay a lower

566
00:57:35,052 --> 00:57:36,033
impact fee.

567
00:57:38,086 --> 00:57:43,001
If it's a smaller house, if it's a smaller house, yeah, but Rob said that really

568
00:57:43,001 --> 00:57:49,009
struck me was this concern about the line contractors. Not that I know of any contractors

569
00:57:49,009 --> 00:57:54,129
that would do that, but, but I guess they could be out there. Well, if you're bringing

570
00:57:54,129 --> 00:58:01,002
in a set of plans for for review for billing permit. And they come and change it.

571
00:58:01,006 --> 00:58:05,239
They're supposed to come and tell you about those changes, and not, not all do do,

572
00:58:05,058 --> 00:58:10,058
but we have a hard time with them giving us some good plans. It depends on the contractor

573
00:58:10,058 --> 00:58:15,909
like it seems like it's a weird balance, so like commercial. It's like these large

574
00:58:15,909 --> 00:58:22,027
commercial projects, they go over the top and we'll have uh 100, it seems like the

575
00:58:22,027 --> 00:58:26,989
larger the corporation, the bigger the plan set like Walmart's 200 pages or I don't

576
00:58:26,989 --> 00:58:33,079
know, for a simple remodel, um, like all the schools. They're always excellent, they

577
00:58:33,079 --> 00:58:39,011
never balk or complain or anything, or just tell us what it is, here it is, and then

578
00:58:39,011 --> 00:58:46,419
it seems like the the smaller. Developers on a shoestring budget, um, those are the

579
00:58:46,419 --> 00:58:51,909
ones we go around and around with, um, and, and impact these are just one additional

580
00:58:51,909 --> 00:58:56,909
area. It's not like we, um, well, like you were talking about the the estimate value

581
00:58:57,082 --> 00:59:00,026
that was another place that we had, right.

582
00:59:03,699 --> 00:59:06,061
OK, but it's the same issue regardless, but it is this way.

583
00:59:08,479 --> 00:59:16,059
So what, what else? What else is? On all's mind to the day. And do, do we have

584
00:59:16,059 --> 00:59:21,031
clarity on that, uh, what's not included in the sewer that was in water? I mean,

585
00:59:21,051 --> 00:59:28,979
just outside fixtures, I guess. Yeah, yeah, typically just the hose bibs.

586
00:59:29,076 --> 00:59:36,709
OK. Can you say that again? Yeah, just typically the hose bibs.

587
00:59:37,012 --> 00:59:41,025
OK. Because they're not going through the sewer, right? Yup.

588
00:59:43,189 --> 00:59:46,199
We do have some irrigation only accounts.

589
00:59:48,409 --> 00:59:54,009
It would not be impacting pursuer for sure. They wouldn't pursue, but I know we charged

590
00:59:54,009 --> 01:00:00,034
the full impact fee upfront. And that is a good question. Um, we charge an impact

591
01:00:00,034 --> 01:00:06,929
fee up front for the 33 10% up front when you get service for our, um,

592
01:00:07,034 --> 01:00:13,007
irrigation. Um, is that because they're setting a separate meter? That's because

593
01:00:13,007 --> 01:00:17,059
they're setting a meter. Anytime we give a meter, they get the impact feed, um, and

594
01:00:17,059 --> 01:00:24,025
they could build 5 years from now. But if I go and put an irrigation system off my

595
01:00:24,025 --> 01:00:30,199
existing water. Line we wouldn't know about it. We, we don't charge an impact fee

596
01:00:30,199 --> 01:00:35,025
for that. No, no, and we wouldn't typically we don't know, know about it, right?

597
01:00:35,033 --> 01:00:41,699
So this is a decision they made to set a different meter specifically for the irrigation.

598
01:00:41,879 --> 01:00:45,489
Yeah, if you have an irrigation account, right, you don't have a lot of that though,

599
01:00:45,077 --> 01:00:51,009
do you? We have some, I think we're just, we're talking about that might be more

600
01:00:51,009 --> 01:00:56,929
appropriate for the super user fee, um, where we get some, there's one guy that uses

601
01:00:56,929 --> 01:01:00,081
100 gallons a month, 100 or 100,000 yeah thanks.

602
01:01:02,199 --> 01:01:05,409
Um, it doesn't want, well, we have several accounts that we should pay that are just

603
01:01:05,409 --> 01:01:09,077
irrigation accounts because you're not paying, don't wanna pay the sewer fee for

604
01:01:09,077 --> 01:01:15,052
the just water and relevant areas. So that shouldn't apply. Either.

605
01:01:19,006 --> 01:01:25,179
Well, I need for irrigation only you could charge the non-residential meter charge.

606
01:01:31,001 --> 01:01:35,879
And how would that work when then they transitioned into a single family residence

607
01:01:36,075 --> 01:01:41,719
because we've we've had about 4 of these where they got service and then that year

608
01:01:42,229 --> 01:01:46,055
they and the next year they want to get it going and they're gonna build in the future

609
01:01:46,055 --> 01:01:52,149
and then. A year later we get building plans. I can think of at least 2 people I

610
01:01:52,149 --> 01:01:57,083
know for sure that did that. The other people are more, about 3. The 3rd hasn't applied

611
01:01:57,083 --> 01:02:00,003
for the building permit, but we see that as well.

612
01:02:02,639 --> 01:02:07,052
So they, they get the irrigation meter just so they can deal with the lot and then

613
01:02:07,052 --> 01:02:12,679
they eventually get on the, they build a house. Yeah, what they do is they, yeah,

614
01:02:12,075 --> 01:02:17,009
it's an irrigation meter, but they get their service, they're just using it for irrigation

615
01:02:17,639 --> 01:02:24,012
and then um there's no living on the property and then when they come a year or two

616
01:02:24,012 --> 01:02:28,929
later, then that's. They've already paid that water impact fee because we charge

617
01:02:28,929 --> 01:02:33,027
it any time we that meter in. So they've already paid that fee up front, but it would

618
01:02:33,027 --> 01:02:37,075
be like what we're talking about instead of a basement, adding a few fixtures, you're

619
01:02:37,075 --> 01:02:43,739
adding a whole house in that case. And so we would have a, a base and then whatever

620
01:02:44,055 --> 01:02:48,087
else. So that would be something to figure out that weird math because I could see

621
01:02:48,087 --> 01:02:53,469
somebody going nuts. They're charged for the minimum way up here when it's only one.

622
01:02:53,939 --> 01:02:57,659
If they would have done it all at one time, it would have the numbers would work

623
01:02:57,659 --> 01:02:58,057
out differently.

624
01:03:01,055 --> 01:03:05,669
Yeah, and, and this gets a little bit complicated. I mean, you could charge them

625
01:03:05,669 --> 01:03:11,008
the base impact fee and then if they build something smaller, there's some sort of

626
01:03:11,008 --> 01:03:16,052
credit mechanism or we charge them the, you know, if we say 9 is our minimum, we

627
01:03:16,052 --> 01:03:20,719
charge them 9, but there's, there's always, hey, if when we, when you come in and

628
01:03:20,719 --> 01:03:26,028
build it, you may be paying again. Yeah, I, I think, I think if we, if we went ahead

629
01:03:26,028 --> 01:03:32,239
and charged the floor. And then when they came in with for a building permit, we

630
01:03:32,239 --> 01:03:37,439
would know what number of fixtures is compared to the floor. It can't go any lower

631
01:03:37,439 --> 01:03:42,889
than the floor. And it becomes then higher than they owe an incremental fee, yeah,

632
01:03:43,002 --> 01:03:47,449
and so we just, we'll we'll credit them that base amount, yeah, I think that works,

633
01:03:47,459 --> 01:03:55,219
yeah. And then there, um, I know we have a 10 year sunset when the developer pays

634
01:03:55,219 --> 01:03:58,179
50%. Well, I guess that's another question. Enough,

635
01:04:01,399 --> 01:04:08,085
um, when you do subdivision at final flat, the developer pays 50% of the impact fees.

636
01:04:10,008 --> 01:04:17,006
And then at the time of development, the owner gets a credit for that 50%. Um, that

637
01:04:17,006 --> 01:04:22,419
sunsets in 10 years. So if you're, if you received final final plat 12 years ago,

638
01:04:22,459 --> 01:04:27,062
you don't get any credits, and I think we're just almost all those subdivisions are

639
01:04:27,062 --> 01:04:33,082
done with, but um I'll. I'll, uh, I'll,

640
01:04:38,409 --> 01:04:43,929
um, I'll, I'll give you an example. I'll pick, uh, the one you've probably heard

641
01:04:43,929 --> 01:04:51,033
of manual living at Mission Bay. So they're gonna have to do 50% of impact

642
01:04:51,033 --> 01:04:58,889
fees. At prior to final plot based on the number of

643
01:04:58,889 --> 01:05:04,057
units. And so we don't, I guess we can base that maybe on a base, I don't know and

644
01:05:04,057 --> 01:05:10,659
credit. Yeah, I didn't know you're doing that for all subdivisions. Yeah, it's in

645
01:05:10,659 --> 01:05:17,081
our um our code. Uh, some of those like where it's a little bit weird is capital

646
01:05:17,081 --> 01:05:23,899
improvement. So like Ridgewater was prior received final prior. So that's, that's

647
01:05:23,899 --> 01:05:28,419
kind of a unique scenario, but if you came in with the new subdivision today, they

648
01:05:28,419 --> 01:05:36,075
would have to do 50%, um, 50% of the total impact fees for final plat. And

649
01:05:36,076 --> 01:05:40,084
so one of the discussions we have is how are we gonna take, would we allow some of

650
01:05:40,084 --> 01:05:47,479
those impact fees to be applied towards some city improvements that are needed, um,

651
01:05:47,056 --> 01:05:54,919
so that area. That area that um associated with that development cause of some improvements

652
01:05:55,419 --> 01:05:59,036
being made and, and that's all. Let me see if I get to what your question is though.

653
01:05:59,085 --> 01:06:06,669
is your question how would we calculate the 50% that they would owe? If it's on a

654
01:06:06,669 --> 01:06:09,949
fixture basis because we don't know what the fixture, how many fixtures are gonna

655
01:06:09,949 --> 01:06:14,969
be in that whole subdivision. Uh, yeah, I think maybe we would do 50% of the average

656
01:06:14,969 --> 01:06:19,032
and they would get a credit maybe. I don't, I don't know where the base. It, it would

657
01:06:19,032 --> 01:06:22,939
be something that would need to be determined, I guess that's what my point is, because

658
01:06:22,939 --> 01:06:29,025
we would need to consider that scenario. Um, what reminded me was, um, there's a

659
01:06:29,025 --> 01:06:36,026
sunset of 10 years and so would we do that 10 year sunset on. Would there be a sunset

660
01:06:36,026 --> 01:06:43,061
on the irrigation? Account Or those ones that did irrigation only, they got, they

661
01:06:43,061 --> 01:06:49,379
paid the full base price. With that, and they're gonna get a credit back for the

662
01:06:49,379 --> 01:06:54,076
base price after 10 years. So 15 years from now they go to develop, are they still

663
01:06:54,076 --> 01:07:01,003
gonna get that 50% credit or does it sunset? I, I understand how uh how the sunsetting

664
01:07:01,003 --> 01:07:07,028
works for the developer, but if somebody's paid to the impact fees. For the specific

665
01:07:07,028 --> 01:07:11,129
lot, it appears to me they should be able to do that. There shouldn't be a sunset.

666
01:07:11,159 --> 01:07:15,012
They should get that credit, whatever it is. Yeah, these are just questions that

667
01:07:15,036 --> 01:07:19,139
that that are gonna come up that should be and what about if this lot's been sold

668
01:07:19,139 --> 01:07:24,061
and then they build. Does, do you still, do you still see them the same way? So still

669
01:07:24,061 --> 01:07:30,001
I don't call you Jamie. So someone in lot 200, I didn't preserve besides I want to

670
01:07:30,001 --> 01:07:33,959
irrigate, but then they decide that, and then they turn around and sell the lot,

671
01:07:34,409 --> 01:07:38,081
and the new person's gonna build the new owner is gonna build the house. So do they

672
01:07:38,081 --> 01:07:42,081
still get that credit? Yeah, they should, yeah, technically we would, we would, we

673
01:07:42,081 --> 01:07:47,012
would have that credit perfect example. We did that exact thing on the lot right

674
01:07:47,012 --> 01:07:51,554
inside the gate. Yes, right. I was picking on that one, right? OK, so. paid the impact

675
01:07:51,554 --> 01:07:57,314
fees for water. So we can irrigate the trees in the back. And they and they sold

676
01:07:57,314 --> 01:08:00,274
the lot. So the lady that bought the lot should be able to get the credit back from

677
01:08:00,274 --> 01:08:08,035
and sometimes we have these negotiations um where somebody's Purchasing a lot

678
01:08:08,035 --> 01:08:13,629
and they negotiate that the seller pays the impact fees. So the new person that will

679
01:08:13,629 --> 01:08:19,039
apply and maybe we could use that the model of kind of like the base or you know,

680
01:08:19,509 --> 01:08:23,899
I don't know these are just questions that are I'm sure will come up so hopefully

681
01:08:25,069 --> 01:08:30,569
I hate to have to come up after the fact after that. So there will be some there

682
01:08:30,569 --> 01:08:35,169
always is everything seems like somebody's always squeezing. Well, yeah, I mean even

683
01:08:35,169 --> 01:08:40,488
now things come up that we have to kind of. Re-engineer around that permit a little

684
01:08:40,488 --> 01:08:46,269
bit and just try and be as fair as we possibly can and and go back to the original

685
01:08:46,269 --> 01:08:51,528
logic of what got grandfathered, what didn't get grandfathered who paid what, you

686
01:08:51,528 --> 01:08:56,819
know, and and. But that 50% is a good question. It's a good question.

687
01:08:59,069 --> 01:09:02,052
Well, that would be the full impact feed, not just sewer water and the parks and

688
01:09:02,052 --> 01:09:07,339
all that yard. So you have to do 50% of the whole impact whatever impact.

689
01:09:11,001 --> 01:09:18,088
OK, so Any other questions from Jamie and Dennis? I, I got one question on that specific

690
01:09:18,619 --> 01:09:26,339
50%. Those impacts are not being felt at that time. So I, I'm a little confused with

691
01:09:26,339 --> 01:09:30,099
what he developed it will pay 50% of those upfront because there's no impact on that

692
01:09:32,018 --> 01:09:35,037
because you're saying they haven't made connection yet and make connections yet.

693
01:09:36,799 --> 01:09:43,029
That being said though. It may be that there's work that needs to be done to accommodate

694
01:09:43,005 --> 01:09:49,001
the capacity before they get there. But can't you, you can make that part of the

695
01:09:49,001 --> 01:09:54,669
plot. We can condition the plot by a plaque, which you are doing in several cases.

696
01:09:54,079 --> 01:10:00,229
Yes, we absolutely are. It's part of, it's actually codifying our regulations. So

697
01:10:00,229 --> 01:10:01,083
the original one, it's, it's in the code is that

698
01:10:03,229 --> 01:10:07,043
the 50%, he no, he's just asking from a, from a principal standpoint, right? Um,

699
01:10:09,709 --> 01:10:17,037
what we will do though is We will in some projects we based on how big whatever is

700
01:10:17,037 --> 01:10:24,006
becoming, we have committed. Some of those impact fees that they pay towards reducing

701
01:10:24,006 --> 01:10:32,005
the cost of that project. So an example is Emanuel living, right? So

702
01:10:32,005 --> 01:10:39,052
they're gonna have to Upgrade 2000 ft of sewer line and build a

703
01:10:40,209 --> 01:10:46,024
generator for one of our pump stations with the backup generator and so we've committed

704
01:10:46,024 --> 01:10:52,075
some of the impact fees that they will pay. In that 50% towards that project we had

705
01:10:52,075 --> 01:10:57,058
identified they were things we were gonna have to do anyways already in our PER,

706
01:10:57,099 --> 01:11:02,709
um, so we will so and I don't wanna call it credit, but sometimes we will spend some

707
01:11:02,709 --> 01:11:09,045
of those on that same project, so. But I understand what you're saying that it doesn't

708
01:11:09,045 --> 01:11:09,006
me.

709
01:11:11,068 --> 01:11:16,031
The problem is if we don't get it up front, then at what point are we gonna get it

710
01:11:16,006 --> 01:11:22,045
and what the impact. You know, when the impact is felt. Uh, right, but that could

711
01:11:22,045 --> 01:11:22,093
be.

712
01:11:24,759 --> 01:11:30,052
That could be different for each project and we might not have we can't plan. On

713
01:11:30,052 --> 01:11:36,359
that short term period, right? I mean we need, we have to plan 5 years out, 6 years

714
01:11:36,359 --> 01:11:41,081
out, something like that. So knowing that those funds are in our account helps us

715
01:11:41,081 --> 01:11:45,008
make sure we can pay for those things going forward. That's, that's the only way

716
01:11:45,008 --> 01:11:49,399
I can say, OK, uh, yeah, it's already in. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna change it.

717
01:11:49,609 --> 01:11:54,209
I'm just hypothetical doesn't seem right. Yeah, the hypothetical that comes to mind

718
01:11:54,209 --> 01:12:00,081
is that um we have to anticipate whenever we, we approve a final flat, we have to

719
01:12:00,081 --> 01:12:05,209
have the capacity to serve that, whether it's done tomorrow or done 20 years from

720
01:12:05,209 --> 01:12:13,041
now, so, so that capacity is required even though that impact is not introduced

721
01:12:13,041 --> 01:12:19,669
to the system. We, we have an effect reserved it. Yes, so, so we're, we have to plan

722
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:24,012
for it because we're not out there on a daily basis. Oh, they're adding two homes.

723
01:12:24,027 --> 01:12:27,079
They're just adding 2, I guess there's 3 homes right now that are going on that should

724
01:12:27,079 --> 01:12:32,149
make new ones and so we just assume that the capacity is there because it was because

725
01:12:32,149 --> 01:12:35,629
they've already paid, they've already paid for it and done it to begin with, but

726
01:12:35,629 --> 01:12:39,083
the capacity is there when we've got the lotscru version, right, yeah, so.

727
01:12:41,419 --> 01:12:45,089
There should be more impacts after the fact. That's why, yeah, so you're complaining

728
01:12:45,089 --> 01:12:48,085
about the sunset more than anything else. I mean, well, I, yeah, I don't think there

729
01:12:48,085 --> 01:12:54,669
should be a sunset for somebody's pay the impact that's all. And so, so what, what

730
01:12:54,669 --> 01:12:58,669
you're, if, if there's a 10 year sunset on the developer pay in half, you charge

731
01:12:58,669 --> 01:13:03,089
the full owner for 100% then that that's the way the regs are written. I'm not advocating

732
01:13:03,089 --> 01:13:09,016
ordinary or another. I'm just saying that's the way that that really, um, that's,

733
01:13:09,041 --> 01:13:14,018
that's the way it's written I can certainly understand that, uh, the waterline. That

734
01:13:14,018 --> 01:13:17,074
a big waterline you put in and then because you gotta put a bigger one in and you

735
01:13:17,074 --> 01:13:22,074
share you on. I don't know the reason why they would do that. The only thing I, my

736
01:13:22,074 --> 01:13:27,319
guess is would be it's like we've seen that's what some of our road projects, um,

737
01:13:27,379 --> 01:13:35,066
used to be able to, um. Do a block or, I don't know, just hypothetical number $200,000

738
01:13:35,099 --> 01:13:41,029
to repay this and now it's half a million dollars, you know, or whatever, our costs

739
01:13:41,029 --> 01:13:44,799
have gone up exponentially, maybe that's why I don't, I don't know. I'd have to go

740
01:13:44,799 --> 01:13:52,649
back and read the minutes and see why, but, so Sean. You and we put you

741
01:13:52,649 --> 01:13:59,083
to sleep or are you still there? No, I'm still here. OK, so are you clear about the

742
01:13:59,083 --> 01:14:06,399
changes in the conversation we had, uh, to the point that you think you can

743
01:14:06,099 --> 01:14:13,091
modify accordingly? Yes. OK, and I'll send a new version

744
01:14:13,091 --> 01:14:20,016
out to you. Again I've got some notes and we all do, so um we can,

745
01:14:20,087 --> 01:14:25,054
once we see what you come up with, we can always fire back and feedback in terms

746
01:14:25,054 --> 01:14:32,299
of uh. In terms of in terms of what you come up with, so, um, I, I guess what I'm

747
01:14:32,299 --> 01:14:39,089
thinking now is we give you some time to make those modifications and shoot us

748
01:14:40,299 --> 01:14:46,459
um an updated proposal, and then we get this group back together and look at that.

749
01:14:47,012 --> 01:14:52,589
And if we're close, if we're if we're in the in the ballpark of where we need to

750
01:14:52,589 --> 01:14:58,081
be, then maybe that time we'll schedule a public hearing the same night as the city

751
01:14:58,081 --> 01:15:03,085
commission meeting and See if we're ready to go forward because we talked about doing

752
01:15:03,085 --> 01:15:07,049
a public hearing. Yeah, so we talked about doing it different than the commission

753
01:15:07,049 --> 01:15:12,609
meeting, but the question I have is, do we want to try to get the parks and the fire

754
01:15:12,609 --> 01:15:18,095
it done before so it's all one thing yeah this we will, we'll try, but right now

755
01:15:18,095 --> 01:15:24,085
it's a great question. Right now, um, I've got Adam helping me on that part of the

756
01:15:24,085 --> 01:15:30,039
CIP to see if we can get it sucked in in time. If not, And I'd like to go ahead and

757
01:15:30,039 --> 01:15:35,879
move forward on the water and the sewer and get them cleaned up. Because they are

758
01:15:35,879 --> 01:15:39,072
waiting and like what are you gonna bring like we're gonna get there, we're gonna

759
01:15:39,072 --> 01:15:45,009
get there, um, and then, and then we'll come back to the, the parks and the fire

760
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:49,359
probably if, if we can't get them done, probably after the budget because at that

761
01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:56,027
point we would have the CIP set. So, uh, quick question. I wanna get this real quick

762
01:15:56,027 --> 01:16:00,068
because otherwise we're not gonna have dinner. Um, we'll be here till like 9 time,

763
01:16:00,689 --> 01:16:07,002
but anyway, uh, uh. Is part of the legislative updates gonna take away our ability

764
01:16:07,002 --> 01:16:12,033
to implement this if we wait for the res and fired. Um, because they're making the

765
01:16:12,033 --> 01:16:16,031
ability you can increase this, is, is, is there something in those bills that all

766
01:16:16,031 --> 01:16:21,002
of a sudden and say now you can only go so much over what it is existing? I don't

767
01:16:21,002 --> 01:16:26,169
know. It seemed like there was with that. Yeah. So, so there might be a sense of

768
01:16:26,169 --> 01:16:32,087
urgency. There might be, but the but the other side of this is, I mean, Sean and

769
01:16:32,087 --> 01:16:40,069
I, we worked to try and make the Parks and fire come out, um, but there's just

770
01:16:40,069 --> 01:16:46,091
not enough set up yet around those expenditures to make me feel good about being

771
01:16:46,091 --> 01:16:51,005
able to defend that fee going forward. So that's why I'm saying I think we still

772
01:16:51,005 --> 01:16:57,729
have some good work to do yet before we're ready to calculate a very defensible fee

773
01:16:59,029 --> 01:17:02,939
with projects that are defensive. So what, so I understand this clearly, the city

774
01:17:02,939 --> 01:17:07,054
council votes would take it to city council for a vote. They're voting only on sewer

775
01:17:07,054 --> 01:17:14,012
and water and then you come back and change it and then and into parks, yeah. All

776
01:17:14,012 --> 01:17:20,509
right, so as I say, let's, let's accepting the fact that I don't have to go back

777
01:17:20,509 --> 01:17:24,609
to the doctor, which isn't just hopefully it's not gonna happen. Um, let's, let's

778
01:17:24,609 --> 01:17:29,609
see if we can set a date. We got Sean on the phone. We get to my calendar here.

779
01:17:31,819 --> 01:17:39,087
Yeah, really. Um, so Sean, we are on the 7th of April. Does this seem like something

780
01:17:39,087 --> 01:17:44,509
we can talk about again in April, or do we need to just wait until May or what what's

781
01:17:44,509 --> 01:17:50,000
your calendar like? I was gonna say the week of the 21st, but that's a mess for me.

782
01:17:50,004 --> 01:17:54,359
I'm gonna be out in Wyoming, um, unfortunately for work. What about that week of

783
01:17:54,359 --> 01:18:02,077
the 28th? OK, the 20 minutes look like for you guys. Uh, I could, I, I've gone

784
01:18:02,077 --> 01:18:08,959
to 30th. OK, and I'm gone the 20 years. No, no, I know it's get back. I'm back by

785
01:18:08,959 --> 01:18:14,399
now. No, I'll be fine. You're OK? Yeah. What if we say the 28th at 4 o'clock again,

786
01:18:14,056 --> 01:18:17,359
Sean? Yep, that works for me.

787
01:18:20,031 --> 01:18:26,629
Perfect. All right. That was great. That's a good day's work. Thanks, folks. Yeah,

788
01:18:26,669 --> 01:18:32,081
thanks everybody. Thanks, Sean, appreciate it. Yeah, take care everyone. All right,

789
01:18:32,089 --> 01:18:35,529
you, let's face that you said 4 o'clock on the.