[0:00] And you can take this.
[0:03] Sure, can you get your name on it? Yeah, yeah. Can you put your, uh, just put your
[0:06] address on there.
[0:13] OK,
[0:17] we're here.
[0:25] recording in progress. Uh,
[0:31] I, I have.
[0:33] Yeah.
[0:35] Yeah,
[0:37] thank you. I'll do that you're absolutely right.
[0:46] No more in here.
[0:49] So your fault is is all ours is all out. So if you want to keep them out there that
[0:56] can be that. That's fine. If I'll come back here if there is a problem, I'll figure
[1:01] out the. Will you tell them that? Yeah, yeah, I, um, I have started the recorder,
[1:07] but yeah, I, I'm muted it currently you guys are finding me out here. Hang on just
[1:10] a second there so you get your shot, um, gets back. I will
[1:16] clear this before.
[1:19] All right.
[1:28] Let's see. I.
[1:34] Open. And
[1:39] Sir, you could just time to start now. Thank you all for coming. Um, this is a special
[1:46] meeting of the, uh, advisory Golf board, and I'd like to call it to order and we
[1:51] stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
[1:58] I told you.
[2:01] States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
[2:08] indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.
[2:19] It's real cold here. Ashcraft, yeah, put that here. Then here Beckley here
[2:27] Mitchell here Terrell here Covington's here middle of winter and we have everybody
[2:33] it's crazy. should be someplace warm so. Um, We're here for one purpose and, uh,
[2:41] Ed, if you'd like to, sure, introduce and yeah, get started. Thank you, Chairman.
[2:46] So, right, so we, the city received a proposal from um a group that Mr. Dallas Tanner
[2:53] represents, and he'll make further explanation of that in just a minute. Um, as this
[2:58] board is aware. Uh, I believe approximately well, well over a year, maybe 18 months
[3:04] ago, we received a proposal, an initial proposal from a group interested in. Leasing
[3:11] and managing the Polson Bay golf course, um, we've been working with them in that
[3:17] interim period of time and then we did receive the second proposal, um, about a month
[3:22] ago. So as we did with that, with the first group, uh, we offered them an opportunity
[3:27] to come and speak with the city commission. So that's what today is about. We also
[3:32] thought it would be a good idea since his group is in town to have them meet with
[3:37] the golf advisory board and let, let you all have some interaction as well. So that's
[3:42] really what we have planned for today. We'll, we'll have Mr. Tanner's group, uh,
[3:46] come up, allow, uh, do you think 20 minutes is enough, Dallas, 1520 minutes, um,
[3:53] for them to make their presentation, and then following that, I would like to have
[3:58] the golf advisory board have an opportunity to interact and ask as many questions,
[4:03] excuse me, ask as many questions as you want to, um, and engage in that. And then
[4:08] once, Mr. Chair, once you feel like that that's probably at a stopping point for
[4:13] the day, then we can certainly open it up to public comment, um, and then try, as
[4:18] I said earlier, try and get finished with this session about 11:15, um, for anyone
[4:24] that's in the room, we do have a workshop with the city commission at 5:30 tonight
[4:31] back in this room, which is also open to the public on Zoom as well. So, um. I think
[4:38] according to the fire chief we are full for the room and we're OK with the folks
[4:43] that we have existing in this lobby, uh, this little hallway out here. That's about
[4:48] our maximum, um, so I think that being said, Mr. Chair, any other questions about
[4:54] that or OK, Dallas, why don't you come up here. And I'll get your,
[5:01] um, Get your presentation. Yeah
[5:11] Actually, if you give me just a sec. Yes, I can. I will get it up. Yeah.
[5:27] Yeah, that's a little bit better graphic, um. If you guys just wanna cue me whenever
[5:32] you want to screen, yeah, I'll, I'll run you through the sizes. Thank you. All right,
[5:35] good afternoon. Uh, for the record, I'm not Dallas Tanner. My name is Rick Smith.
[5:40] Been a businessman in Pulsa for 35 years. I have gotten to know Dallas about 11 years
[5:47] ago. Uh, helped him acquire some property on Finley Point, and we, uh, just acquired
[5:53] some other property, uh, this past summer. I've been very fortunate and I'm grateful
[5:59] to have. Been able to develop A very strong lake shore business and one thing I've
[6:05] noted is that I hate to say all of these people, but most of these people. Love our
[6:12] community. Are passionate about our community. And want to help our community and
[6:19] um. They've made a lot of these lake buyers have made substantial donations
[6:27] to the hospital. Uh, and the Boys and Girls Club, and it's something that I think
[6:33] would be beneficial to our community to use and leverage, uh, to make it even better.
[6:44] Who is Dallas? I mean, I've gotten to know him pretty well. When you do a real estate
[6:48] transaction with someone, you really get to see their colors. And, uh, of course,
[6:53] all transactions have issues and challenges. He's always been a man of his word.
[6:58] He's a man of integrity. About a year ago, we were talking and he goes, Rick, I,
[7:02] I wanna buy the golf course. I go, What? He goes, no, I love golf. I've been playing
[7:07] golf here since I was 13. And I love this golf course. He's played golf all over
[7:12] the world. He calls this his second favorite golf course.
[7:18] His first round, uh, golf, he was 13 years old here.
[7:24] Dallas has very good intentions to help make our community better. And I've seen
[7:31] that over and over, over a long period of time. He also has the resources. When I
[7:36] say resources, I don't, I mean, I don't mean only financial. There are other resources
[7:43] that are available to help us. His mom and dad live here 12 months a year. Dallas's
[7:50] plan is to move here full-time, uh, in 5 to 7 years. If you read page
[7:57] 8 of his document, and I just wanted to quote this, all he's asking for, right, he
[8:03] put forth a proposal for discussion, and he's asking for a conversation with the
[8:09] city to explore whether this partnership serves Paulson's interests. No commitment
[8:16] is required at this stage.
[8:20] I didn't know if I was gonna say this, but I raised 3 boys here. Uh, one went to
[8:25] Stanford Law, one's at Harvard, biochemistry, grad student, and the other one's director
[8:31] of guest services at a very, uh, luxury hotel. And I contribute a lot of that to
[8:38] growing up in a place like this. We are so lucky, and we're so lucky to have. Our
[8:45] community and we're lucky to have these people that that come here, live here year
[8:50] round, some live part time that wanna contribute and help, and there's an expertise
[8:56] out there that I think we could use. So I've been pleased and happy to work with
[9:02] Dallas and without anything else, Mr. Tanner, thanks, appreciate it. Yeah, you bet.
[9:08] Everybody needs a hype man, so I appreciate Rick, uh, being willing to introduce
[9:14] me a little bit, uh, out here. First of all, thank you, Mr. Chairman of the board.
[9:17] Appreciate the opportunity to get in front of you all and talk about something I
[9:20] think we're all passionate about, which is the city of Polson and, and what makes
[9:25] it so wonderful, um. Before I get into sort of who I am, I think I just wanted to
[9:31] start by talking a little bit about the what, which is, you know, this opportunity
[9:36] and I've spent a lot of time here since 1993. Uh, my family's been here on the lake
[9:41] since 191993. My parents here since 19998, you know, I got engaged to my wife up
[9:46] here in Polson, raised my kids here. We plan on being here a long, long time. One
[9:51] of the things that I've loved about the town is the community feel and the aspect
[9:54] that sort of everybody digs in. I think it's evident by. This being sort of the hottest
[9:59] ticket in town this afternoon is the full house, uh, that there's a lot of interest,
[10:03] right, in not only the stewardship that we all, um, have over certain parts of, of
[10:08] the town proper, but also things that we're passionate about. And one of the things
[10:12] that I, as you get to know me as a member of this town, whether there's an opportunity
[10:16] to do it at the golf course or not over time, is that we'll be passionate and stay
[10:20] involved. And as Rick mentioned, we've been heavily involved with the Boys and Girls
[10:23] Clubs both here and in Roan. heavily involved in the recent activity around the hospital
[10:28] wing and also done things for fire and other community interests. The thing that
[10:34] I thought about over the last couple of years, and I actually talked to Cameron about
[10:37] it a couple of years ago, I said, you know, the city does a wonderful job of maintaining
[10:40] the golf course, generally speaking, it's a great municipal golf course. Uh, we spend,
[10:45] you know, 234 nights a week out here in the summer playing golf, and, and one of
[10:49] the best parts about it is the field, the vibe, it's, it's, it's casual, right? It's
[10:53] meant to be. Uh, Montana, um, the thing that I have come to appreciate about it and
[10:59] a little bit of experience in a few other golf courses that I've invested in in the
[11:02] past have been that it's, you know, it's easy to, to, to have an opinion from the
[11:07] cheap seats, right? Anyone that runs a business or a commission or a committee knows
[11:12] it, it takes moving a lot of people, a herd as I call it, in one direction to produce
[11:16] real results or create an outcome. The other thing that I have an appreciation for
[11:20] is in having worked a lot in my professional experience in both public-private partnerships
[11:25] and working with different cities and municipalities, is that nothing's easy. It
[11:29] takes time. You have to first surface the idea like Rick said, you have to talk to
[11:33] people. You have to socialize what it is that you're actually trying to do, and there
[11:36] can be a lot of misperception as to sort of intent or what the overall outcome desired
[11:43] would be. With Mixed, it's it's it's a group of partners that I'm involved with,
[11:48] and I would also say that I've had keen insight on this opportunity from a number
[11:52] of members of the community here. The thought was, can we take something that's really
[11:56] good and make it great and on the margins do a few things that will create an overall
[12:02] experience for the town and for the community candidate it'd be a bit more engaging.
[12:06] This town has plenty of influence and there's there's full-timers, there's summer
[12:10] visitors and the like. You know, I think what we don't need is another bank, another
[12:14] bar, or, or, or another, you know, uh, dispensary. What we do need are people that
[12:19] are creating and bringing resources in to create community and sort of engagement
[12:23] areas where we can all enjoy. One of the things that I love about the Tulsa Bay golf
[12:28] course is that sort of feeling when you come in late in the dawn on Friday or Saturday
[12:34] afternoon and people are sitting up on the patio and you know maybe the grill's going
[12:37] and there's been some challenges there admittedly as I've learned with that part
[12:41] of the business, but that could be expanded. I think there's a way to activate some
[12:45] of those areas and put some significant capbacks into the clubhouse. That could not
[12:49] only help the bunker grill, which has had its own set of challenges, but actually
[12:53] sort of activate the space in a way that it could be a much more better served common
[12:56] area space. I think on the margin there's little things we can do around the golf
[13:00] course that will take, you know, resources beyond just what's maybe in the annual
[13:04] budget. I think there's things we can do around car pass. I think there's things
[13:06] we can do around tee boxes. I think there's things that we can do around greens and
[13:10] some of the green management. I was involved with a project in Tennessee a few years
[13:14] ago called Sweeten's Cove. I don't know if any of you have had a chance to play it
[13:17] or if you've looked online, but it's a fabulous golf course built by a guy by the
[13:21] name of Rob Collins. Rob built the golf course basically with his bare hands. And
[13:26] then over time he brought in a small group of investors who who have allocated additional
[13:32] resources. Now there's also a bourbon brand there. I'm not suggesting that for the
[13:34] town of Polson. That was also part of what they want to do to sort of highlight the
[13:38] area. What they've been able to do over time is create a. I, I like to call it like
[13:42] a field of dreams meets golf sort of field where there's a really healthy energy
[13:48] around local and around they they sell day passes, they do different things that
[13:53] keep it sort of for the locals, and I would envision something very similar. I think
[13:57] candidly, I think the golf course does a great job with this. I think the golf's
[13:59] pretty affordable right now. I think the annual passes are affordable. I think Cameron
[14:03] and his team do a wonderful job in the pro shop. I think Pat does a really good job
[14:07] with the resources he has on the golf course, but I also think that with a little
[14:10] bit of creative thinking and maybe even perhaps an advisory board around a new group
[14:14] of ownership, that if you have the right resources, the right capital to allocate,
[14:18] you could make what's already good really, really great. And that's really the pitch
[14:23] at the end of the day is there's enough of us up here that love this place, love
[14:26] what the town's all about, love what the locals are all about, but if we could bring
[14:30] in the right amount of resources, which would be subject to working in partnership
[14:34] with the city in terms of the plan, that was one of the reasons why we pitched the
[14:37] 99 year lease concept is we don't need to own the land at the end of the day. Anything
[14:42] you want to do with the golf course, generally speaking outside of what's there,
[14:45] you have to come to the city for approvals anyway. And whether that was a project
[14:49] around the clubhouse or something, you know, if you had another grand design in a
[14:53] couple of years, but that's typically how public-private partnerships work, right?
[14:57] You get access to capital that can come in, do a few things to improve, make an area
[15:01] better, um, and try to be, you know, I, I don't view it as, as ownership. I view
[15:05] it as putting the right group together that can be stewards, and I have all the confidence
[15:10] in the world that, you know, the 4 or $5 million it takes to put this together to
[15:14] do it the right way, that we can do it. I think you need local buy-in. I think you
[15:17] need an advisory board buy-in. I think you need local support, um, but I, but I think
[15:23] we can actually take what's been here and been really great and make it even better
[15:27] and leave it in a better way, um, for our kids and the next generations that wanna
[15:31] spend time out there. Um, I won't bore you with going through this whole proposal,
[15:36] but I thought it probably makes sense to at least touch on sort of a couple of the
[15:40] concepts here. Real quick, you know, and I, and I, and I'll give you just a thought,
[15:44] if you, uh, Ed, if you wouldn't mind going to the page that just says benefits for
[15:47] Pulson, and I, I warned Ed before I sent this over after meeting with him and Laura,
[15:51] I said, look, there is no way or shape meant to be final. Uh, just the thought is
[15:56] we, we've invested in a couple of different golf courses, one in Phoenix and one
[15:59] in Tennessee. You typically these things sell for 1 to 2 times kind of their operating.
[16:03] Sort of margins and I'll, and I'll be fair, I don't have a completely holistic view
[16:09] of the P&L. I have a pretty good sense based on some things that we've been able
[16:12] to share and have our team work on to sort of line out and put in front of the of
[16:16] of the city, but I thought if you did some sort of a structure where you pay 2 times
[16:20] upfront and then another 2 times over 5 or 10 years. Uh, it's a net win for the city
[16:25] because we can put another million dollars in the general fund on top of the additional
[16:29] dollars that we would bring in to reinvest in the course and in the clubhouse and
[16:32] in the facilities and so there wasn't, I, I don't want to kind of overthink this,
[16:37] but as I sort of met with the old mayor and the new mayor with that and come to understand
[16:41] sort of some of the. Some of the challenges with operating a golf course with the
[16:45] city budget, I mean, it's not, it's not easy, right? We all have constraints on our
[16:50] resources. My companies have constraints, and so as you go through that annual planning,
[16:54] it's very easy to pull, pull out, you know, future CX projects or things that you'd
[16:58] like to do, uh, that, that also meet the other needs of the citizens here, here in
[17:03] Folsom. And so my thought was to make the city a partner, have them come along with
[17:07] us for the ride. And then I would also say that in the event that we had other ideas
[17:11] or things that we thought that we could do to enhance the property, as I mentioned
[17:15] before, I think that would take public endorsement. I think the city would have to
[17:18] sign off on that, but you do that in the appropriate way, right? You, you show up,
[17:22] go through the planning and zoning commission, you show any idea whether it was a
[17:25] renovation to a clubhouse or the like. Um, we're committed, as I mentioned on our
[17:30] commitments to Polson Page, we maintain all the local partnerships, generally speaking,
[17:35] the rates on golf, uh, the annual memberships, the donations they make to the different.
[17:39] Constituencies and charities that are here in Polson, we would want to honor that
[17:43] and probably candidly look to enhance it just a little bit. I think there's some
[17:46] pretty cool things we could do from a charitable perspective. My wife and I have
[17:49] talked about this. I think there's a number of things that we could do to drive additional
[17:52] revenue to the town through some charitable days out on the golf course in the summer,
[17:56] some things we could do in the evening that I know for a fact would get a big buy-in
[18:00] from. A lot of the families that we know up here that I think could only just be
[18:03] net beneficial to the town. I'd like to work with the mayor and some of these different
[18:07] areas and opportunities where we can do that and target specific needs that the town
[18:10] has. On the next page, we just at a very high level and again I haven't had the proper
[18:16] opportunity to do the right amount of diligence, so I'd ask you to just read this
[18:19] with a little bit of a grain of salt, but you know we saw some near term things that
[18:23] we thought we could do right out of the gate. I mentioned the grill, the clubhouse.
[18:26] I think we could do something there that would make it. Not only, you know, people
[18:30] that like to golf, they're proud, but I think the city would be proud. I think it
[18:33] could be a much better common area space that we could open up to a number of different
[18:37] events. I think there's a lot that you can do with that space, especially considering
[18:41] the patio and the area down below. I think there's a lot that you could do from a.
[18:45] A public perspective, the common area could be utilized in a much better way. We
[18:49] had no other issues with the grill. I think that's something we'd have to spend some
[18:52] time on and sort of think through. Is it better to keep in-house or to bring in a
[18:57] partner, uh, maybe a restaurateur. I've talked to a couple so far that have expressed
[19:01] some interest. I think there's an opportunity there. Um, I know that there's some
[19:04] significant capbacks that we need to spend over the next 2 to 3 years, including
[19:08] updates to cars and the like, and then there will be a few projects I want to spend
[19:11] some time on with Pat and the board to better understand so that we can all align
[19:14] interests and make sure that we're focusing on the right areas. And I want to be
[19:17] really clear, like we have no intentions of in our proposal making this a private
[19:21] club or anything but what it currently is. We just have, we just truly have a passion
[19:26] and I think the resources to make it a little bit better, uh, and something that
[19:29] we could all enjoy a little bit more, um. Lastly, just a little bit about myself.
[19:34] I was born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona. Um, I'm currently living in Dallas, Texas.
[19:38] I've been involved in a number of different real estate opportunities and development
[19:42] businesses. My family's background goes back almost 4 generations doing horizontal
[19:46] earthwork and dirt work. We've done a number of things. For different golf courses
[19:50] in in in Maricopa County and Phoenix, I sat on the flood control advisory board for
[19:54] Maricopa County, so I have a full appreciation of of what groups like you and different
[19:59] committees do in terms of donating your time and and resources to help overseeing
[20:03] things that are important to a to a town or community, um. And then, uh, lastly,
[20:09] and I just want to thank, uh, both Ed and Laura, the mayor, uh, for their willingness
[20:13] to engage is, you know, I think there's an ability, and I don't know all the constituencies
[20:18] admittedly, um, I've gotten to know a few members of the, the Gulf advisory board
[20:22] and a couple of people here in the community. I've certainly known some folks for
[20:25] a long time like Cameron. But I think there's an opportunity to engage here, and
[20:29] I know there's a lot of different ideas on the table about what do you do with the
[20:32] golf course long term. Should it stay in the city? Should it go private? Should it
[20:36] be part of an association? I'd say I'm all ears at the end of the day and want to
[20:40] be as supportive as we can, but I do see an opportunity that you can take what's
[20:44] been, you know, one of the city's jewels, a really cool common area space, make it
[20:49] better, enhance it, and hopefully can provide better access for members of the community
[20:53] and ultimately hopefully drive. Uh, more resources into the town, and I think, you
[20:57] know, a good example of this just for fun is, you know, I, like I said, I've been
[21:01] coming here since I was 13. You know, I've gone to that movie theater on Main Street
[21:05] my whole life in the summer to go check out a movie and that thing got a lot better
[21:08] about 5 or 6 years ago and it took somebody, you know, taking risks, probably at
[21:12] the worst time going into the pandemic, but now when we go there with our kids and
[21:17] it's just fabulous, right? It's a great asset that the town gets to enjoy, and I
[21:21] think Folsom Bay should be the same way. I think there's ways that we can open it
[21:25] up. I think we can, you know, I, I, I get that sometimes, especially with something
[21:29] like this, change can be a little bit scary, but I think if you do it in a measured
[21:33] way with the right partners and with the right resources, there's no reason why it
[21:37] can't just be a win, win, win, and I think it's going to take some creative thinking
[21:41] across things like this in Polson over time and distance to continually enhance the
[21:45] value of the overall lived experience here in town. So I appreciate your time today.
[21:50] I'm grateful to be here. I'm grateful to be a member of the Polson community and.
[21:53] And um thank you for uh hearing our idea about trying to see if we can come in and
[21:57] help and do something that I think the town would be proud of. Thank you. Dallas,
[22:01] if you wanna hang out there, uh, Mr. Chair, maybe we could open it to the advisory
[22:07] board for questions. Thank you, yeah, no problem. Do we have any questions? wanna
[22:12] start over here. Sure, sure, um, I just want to clarify that you are a for-profit
[22:20] organization, correct? As we're coming into this, that's exactly how we're thinking
[22:23] of it's just, just so that we could run it like a traditional business model, OK.
[22:27] And you said you guys are in town now, so none of you live here full time. I'm not
[22:32] full time. We're here from kind of May to September. I have 5 kids, uh, one of 2
[22:36] of which basically are in college and 3 that are finishing up sort of middle school
[22:40] through high school right now. Thank you.
[22:45] Um, 1st, 1st of all, I'd like to comment on my, uh, name in the, on the golf board
[22:52] in the city, um, uh, website. It's not Monton. I didn't write it. It's, uh, Morton,
[23:00] but I go by Mark. Uh, uh, the question I have, um, Number one out of, out of
[23:08] many is how did MIXT learn about this opportunity? How
[23:16] did MIXT come to be able to present this in the public and the uh
[23:24] the Polson Bay Golf Association has not been afforded the same opportunity. And you
[23:30] said, Ed, that we were asked to make a presentation. I don't know. I can't confirm
[23:37] that. So, so I'll start that. So, yeah, so, um, when.
[23:46] I know, 18 months ago, um, I believe there was a meeting in this room with the city
[23:51] commission, uh, for the purpose of discussing a gentleman came down from Whitefish,
[23:57] um, and the purpose of that meeting was to was to discuss the possibility of a local
[24:02] association was interested in putting forth the idea of leasing the golf course,
[24:08] and we did that. We had that meeting here. It was about. 45 minutes to an hour long,
[24:13] something like that. So that's what I'm referencing. It's the same type of introductory
[24:19] conversation that we had with that group, um, as far as how did it get, you know,
[24:24] Mr. Tanner approached the city, I don't know, 3 or 4 months ago. I can't remember
[24:30] exactly early June was it June? Was it that far ago? Wow, um, was it? Yeah. But Starbucks
[24:37] was Starbucks, yeah, OK, so anyways, and said they had an idea and they would, uh,
[24:42] so myself and Mayor Huffine met with them, um, and said, you know, we're open to
[24:47] if, if you have a proposal you wanna make, sure, you know, um, then we heard from
[24:52] them again, I believe, in November, yeah, I think I had followed up, uh, with a couple
[24:58] of emails. Just want to understand. And so then once we had a proposal in hand, just
[25:02] like we did for the first meeting, um, we made the city commission aware of it and
[25:07] we scheduled a meeting so that we could have it, um, be a, a public introduction
[25:13] of the idea to both this group and the city commission. I think that meeting with
[25:20] the Whitefish, uh, people was a concept and not a proposal. OK, um, that,
[25:28] that, that, and that certainly could be your perspective. Perhaps I'll see it a little
[25:32] bit differently. Um, we have had a number of follow-up sessions with that group since
[25:37] that time and, and recently. Like I think within the last couple of months I've provided
[25:44] all of our comments and back to the city commission so that they could see what at
[25:49] least our comments were on the lease that was proposed there. If, if that group desires
[25:54] to come back and have a session like this, we're not opposed to it. Um, I haven't
[25:59] been asked for that opportunity. Mr. Tanner's group asked for this opportunity. If
[26:04] that's something they wanna do, more than welcome to put it on the calendar. Thank
[26:08] you.
[26:11] Excuse me, I just want to comment on that, Ed, let's get this thing cleared up. This
[26:15] was a couple of years ago, probably 3 years ago, and anything that the, The conversation
[26:21] between. Eddding Coddington and I with the Whitefish, and all it was to bring it
[26:28] down to say, this is what Whitefish did with their city. This is what Kalispell did
[26:35] with their city, and the superintendent of the golf course in Whitefish offered to
[26:39] come down and chat. He came down and chat the whole thing. We weren't in association.
[26:44] We weren't anything then. All we were is to show the council if they want to uh what
[26:50] the cities can do with the golf course. That was all. So there was no offer to do
[26:56] what Mr. Tanner's doing right now. We may ask for it later, but I just want to clar
[27:02] clarify that. Well, and, and so we, I would say we have a different perspective,
[27:05] but this isn't really the purpose. Well, I, I, I, I'm glad, I'm glad to do this if
[27:10] you want to do this offline or if you want to do it in the city commission meeting.
[27:13] But that particular group, the city has been involved with them. Numerous times since
[27:20] that beginning conversation and if at any point they wanted to or want to have that
[27:26] type of a forum with the city commission, all it would do is take a request. At no
[27:30] point have we turned down any anything like that. My impression has been that that
[27:36] group wanted to work the way that we've been working on. They wanted to start with
[27:41] the lease document and try and work through that. And so that's what they've been
[27:45] doing, um. The purpose of the day we had a request to make a public presentation
[27:51] and we've honored that request like, like we do. I'm sorry, I'm talking Larry like
[27:56] we do any time that a group, uh, like this, whether it's a private company, a nonprofit,
[28:02] or anybody else wants to make a presentation. That's what we do. We schedule it.
[28:07] Yeah, OK.
[28:11] OK, um. I just have a couple of questions about, um, so you, you're an avid golfer
[28:19] and you golf, of course, 4 times a week when you're up here. Do you have a golf pass?
[28:26] I, I did for a couple of different years. I've been buying the punch cards the last
[28:29] couple of summers. And then did you contact, you talked about Cameron. Did you talk
[28:34] to Pat? Did you talk to Cameron about the golf course, about what's going on, what
[28:40] our needs were about the greens, about the fairways? Not in depth because I didn't
[28:45] want to get over my skis. I mean, candidly, to your point around process, I want
[28:48] to be really careful that I respected sort of the right processes. A couple of years
[28:52] ago, I did talk to Cameron. I said, Hey, wouldn't it be a crazy idea to think about
[28:55] this if, you know, someday to take it sort of private, and we have one conversation
[28:59] about it and we just sort of think about it. Um, so no, I have not engaged, you know,
[29:04] in the weeds yet or in the diligence phase with camera. No, not yet. It's interesting
[29:08] to get a proposal, and I know it's a proposal, but the only people you talked to
[29:13] was what the mayor, who is a non-golfer, the city manager who is a non-golfer.
[29:21] It seems strange that we've come up with a huge proposal for millions of dollars
[29:25] and we haven't even talked to anybody that is around this golf course that really
[29:29] knows the golf course. Yeah, real quick, my, my understanding was that that's what
[29:33] the purpose of this meeting was for. Larry was to have this first discussion so that
[29:37] we could talk to the golf advisory board. It wasn't meant to. Be out there with inspectors
[29:42] doing due diligence work or no, they'd be putting the cart before the horse. I think
[29:46] what I wanted to do was come in here first talk about who I am. Started as an idea
[29:49] a couple of years ago, started the conversation with the former mayor, uh, met Ed,
[29:54] asked if we could set up a working session. So I want to be really careful that we
[29:57] don't Get ahead of ourselves here. I feel like this is the appropriate format to
[30:01] sort of talk about this as a concept out loud, not specifically on what you do or
[30:06] don't do with the golf course per se. I have my own views which I already laid out
[30:09] in my kind of monologue, but I, I wouldn't want any and all feedback. I mean, a lot
[30:13] of you guys play the course more than I do. Uh, it doesn't change the fact that I
[30:17] think we can all agree based on some of the conversations I've had with a couple
[30:20] of members here on the different boards that we all sort of see things the same way,
[30:24] that there's an ability to improve and to make it an even better experience. So I
[30:28] would just say real quick, Larry, I mean I think Dallas is absolutely right. Once,
[30:32] once we got to the point where we knew that an actual proposal was going to be on
[30:36] the way, um, we had that discussion that the best way to do this would be. To have
[30:41] a series of public meetings and push the issue out into the public so we could start
[30:46] a conversation, um, and not have a bunch of behind closed doors speculation,
[30:54] conspiracy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's exactly how we got here today.
[30:58] Um, when Dallas made the proposal, he asked if we could kick this off in a public
[31:03] fashion and so we put it on the counter. And do you want it's OK if I say something,
[31:07] absolutely, Larry, uh, good questions. I understand. We thought we were following
[31:12] protocol by talking to the city manager, uh, and the mayor at the time. We thought
[31:17] that was step number one. And then the next step was. Dallas and his team fooled
[31:24] around with a proposal, and again, you know, that quote I read, it's a proposal,
[31:29] it's out there for discussion. So we didn't, the intention was not to do some sneaky
[31:35] behind the scenes thing. We went directly to the people we thought could give us
[31:39] advice on how to proceed. OK, let's talk about Sweetened Cove. So Sweetened Cove,
[31:46] the way I understand it, I mean, I've read up on it. Um, I actually talked to the
[31:53] mayor of Pittsburgh this morning, uh, saying, I don't want to talk about it. I don't
[31:59] want to talk about those guys. Call the county. So I don't know what he meant by
[32:03] that, but then I had called for a tee time. Oh, well, we're not, we're not open then,
[32:09] but we open on Friday, and I said, well, how about a tea time around 120? Well, we
[32:13] don't do that. We do a shotgun at 8:30 in the morning. Yeah, that's not how it works.
[32:17] It's a, it's a unique format they have there. And the other thing is, that came up
[32:21] was, oh, and then you have a food truck there. So, the other thing that came up was.
[32:28] You talk about not taking this pulse in private if we got into that, but 43% of your
[32:34] time at that golf course is reserved for owners. It's closed to the public. That's
[32:40] not true. So, and I, we mean that with all respect. So the way it works there is
[32:45] they actually drop what's called a day pass because it's meant for destinational
[32:48] golf, very different than what is here in Tulsa. So I would actually encourage you
[32:52] not to fixate on that because I don't think that model works here, nor would I be
[32:55] a proponent of that model. It's in a very remote location outside of Chattanooga,
[33:00] so what you do is, and they, they sell it in about 40 minutes, 4 times a year. So
[33:04] they post the passes online and then when you buy a day pass, there's no carts. There's
[33:09] a couple of carts, but it's meant to walk. It's a 9 hole, 2 different grains, um,
[33:13] it, it is actually a day pass. And you're right, they currently don't have a clubhouse.
[33:16] They've just recently secured investment. They're building a clubhouse. It's, it's
[33:19] a different concept. The only reason I mentioned Sweeten's Cove is I just want to
[33:23] give background that this isn't our first rodeo in terms of being involved in projects
[33:27] to benefit local towns and do different things around golf. That's all that's all
[33:31] that's meant there. OK. Um, I'll, I'll pass for now. Um, my first question
[33:38] is, um, In your executive summary here, 99 year lease, transferable.
[33:47] Are you still involved with the Sweeten Cove? very minority LP, yeah. I don't run
[33:55] that business or the operating partnership, just an investor. So, uh, transferable
[34:01] ground lease, you're. Talking about here for Pulsa. Well, what I was trying to do
[34:06] just to be clear was try to do something to uh Rick's point, and I think what Ed
[34:12] followed up on is do something that's sort of simple, clean, and easy, uh, I'm not
[34:16] asking to buy the land, and I, and I, when the first time I met with Eric and then
[34:19] following up with Ed, I said. Someone should approach this with a way to be a steward
[34:24] so that we preserve the golf course forever, and I think a 99 year lease accomplishes
[34:28] that. Um, Well, for generations. My point of standpoint, and I think the
[34:36] city is 99 years is a long time to commit to anybody. Well, it's just, it's similar
[34:41] things that we've seen work with, um, some of the tribes that you could be open minded,
[34:45] flexible at the end of the day.
[34:47] OK, well, it's sort of a standard processes around here that we know of are started
[34:52] at like a 10 year thing, kind of like the. Well, I would say if you're gonna get
[34:56] to know each other in 10 years, but if you're gonna buy the operating business and
[35:00] make the significant investment in the Capex, the clubhouse, and the grill and all
[35:03] that, I think you're gonna want a little bit longer certainty than 10 years. Well,
[35:08] that, uh, that brings me to my next question is how many of your group of investors,
[35:13] how many are you? How many people right now we're probably just 3 or 4. And what's
[35:19] the expectation of your return on your investment? Uh, very little at the end of
[35:24] the day. So, you know, this is one of the things I talked with Rick about. Like you
[35:27] don't buy a golf course because you think you're gonna make a bunch of money. They
[35:30] don't make a bunch of money as is. Um, you buy it because you're passionate about
[35:34] it and you want to reinvest that capital over and over. So you expect a return. I
[35:38] mean, I, I doubt that we break even, do a little bit better, but I would say you
[35:42] think about it probably in a similar vein that the city would is that they don't
[35:45] want to operate at a deficit, right? But I would tell you that the, the investors
[35:49] that would participate in this purchase or you could just say. Me and my family,
[35:54] whoever you want to kind of point at, our goal would be longevity and stewardship,
[35:58] and that we, we take what's already good and just make it better, and that you're
[36:01] not gonna, I mean, it's Polsom Bay at the end of the day, right? It, it, it can only
[36:06] support certain price points like that the city's done a pretty good job with, in
[36:09] my opinion. Um, I think you gotta keep the annual passes pretty low like they've
[36:13] done. I think that's the key to, to have play. If it's, if it's too expensive, it
[36:17] won't do any well, it won't do very well. OK Um Part of your business is
[36:24] a, uh, uh, lease housing, rent rental housing, something like that? You mean personally?
[36:31] Yeah. Aren't you the CEO of I'm a CEO of a company that is in, yes, the, uh, not
[36:36] affordable, but it's sort of in the, the mid-level for lease housing space, correct.
[36:41] And I've seen some information that's been passed to me about uh a huge lawsuit.
[36:49] Well, we have 110,000 homes. I mean, candidly, companies of our size in the S&P 500.
[36:54] This is an FTC. judgment against you. It was, it was in a judgment, to be clear.
[37:01] It was a, so what happened was during COVID, it became very popular, typically out
[37:06] of the Biden administration to sort of pick on housing groups, and we're one of the
[37:10] largest in our sector and so very, very early stages we started to get sort of picked
[37:14] on by different agencies. I, I can't speak publicly about things like that, but I
[37:19] will tell you, uh, just given that it's a public business. We have had to deal from
[37:24] time to time with government intervention on some things, and in that particular
[37:28] instance we really with our counsel of our lawyers and everybody else, we agreed
[37:33] that the easiest format would be to settle, admit no wrongdoing in Vermont, otherwise
[37:37] you've been tied up for years and hundreds of millions of dollars in the court. Well
[37:41] this is from what I read this is about your business practices, part of this. I'm
[37:48] sorry, I'm not following, I'm not following your line of questions. Well, that's
[37:50] just, that's just what I read. That's the word, you know, um, so did you settle?
[37:56] I think you read it correct. Like we did settle, yeah, we settled, but admit no wrongdoing.
[38:01] It's clear, clear day in the, in the filing, yeah, which is OK. Um,
[38:09] That's it for now.
[38:12] I, I guess what I'd like to ask is, uh, you know, just, just a minute ago you mentioned
[38:16] that, uh, you'd approached, uh, Cameron about taking this thing private. I'd approach,
[38:21] can I be clear about that? I talked to Cameron a couple of years ago about, do you
[38:24] think the city would ever entertain an idea where this could be held under private
[38:27] ownership? Well, in, in your, uh, presentation, you said that, uh, you have no intentions
[38:34] of making it private. I'm, I'm just willing, I'm just wondering if you're willing
[38:40] to make guarantees. It'll never go private. Yeah, no problem. I have no interest
[38:44] in making this a private golf course, and you, and you will make the guarantees.
[38:49] I think it'd be part of what we agreed to with the city if we could get to that point.
[38:52] Yeah, no problem. Good question.
[38:56] Thank you for coming this afternoon. Um, I, I've got, I think, a bunch of the questions
[39:01] that I had written down ahead of time and touched on, but I am kind of curious about
[39:07] your strategy for bunkers, you know, what your vision is and over what period of
[39:14] time frame? It is a great question, and I'll tell you I don't have it completely
[39:20] thought through because to the earlier point we haven't been on site and done a bunch
[39:23] of diligence. I've just, a lot of my information is, um, in part hearsay and talking
[39:28] to folks. I know that there's a little bit of capex that needs to go into bunkers.
[39:33] I know bunkers have been the topic of conversation. I've seen it in the articles
[39:36] and different conversations, but what I think would be really cool. And again, I
[39:40] want to be really clear, guys, the energy around this needs to be positive and, and,
[39:44] and forward for the town. If we want just more of the same, it could be the same.
[39:48] Like I, I got no problem signing up for just being a patron and playing golf the
[39:52] rest of my life out here in the summers. That's fine. But I think with a little ingenuity,
[39:57] um, the right partnership, especially on bunkers, you gotta get. I think what's been
[40:01] hard about it now is you had a general manager, I believe, and you know, still sort
[40:05] of city led right at the end of the day, and I think you gotta probably think a little
[40:09] outside of the box and bring in a partner that's a little passionate around a restaurant
[40:12] concept there that could serve both the golf and then also have some viability during
[40:16] the winter months. I don't need to tell you guys, you know the difference in population
[40:20] change here from, you know, fall to spring. Um, so something that's sustainable,
[40:25] um, as I've talked about this idea with a few friends and people in town, that's
[40:28] the first thing they ask me is how do we get that to be like a spot that we can all
[40:32] go to and everybody enjoy. Candidly, the bowling alley does a great job with this,
[40:35] with the food and sort of, you know, they get sort of consistent customer base there.
[40:40] Um, I don't know what the right answer is, but I think partnership's gonna matter
[40:43] there at the end of the day, and I think you've got to create the space to make it
[40:46] a little bit more inviting as well. So following up, the Capex, what, I mean, help
[40:52] me understand, what are you thinking about, just kind of gut feel on the investment
[40:58] required for bunkers to get it off the ground because we have in the past, we've
[41:03] leased. Um, in years past, uh, bunkers to outside parties, it
[41:10] has been not the most successful operation, so. If if the private entity is going
[41:18] to take it over, what kind of a major investment or investment is required? It sounds
[41:24] like there's just some basic things like in the kitchen and the chiller. There's
[41:27] a few things that have to be updated just so that it can be a functioning kitchen
[41:30] the right way, as I understood it. I don't know that. I know there's a there's a
[41:33] disparity between, I think they don't keep a normal liquor license, is that right,
[41:37] Ed, today there's something we have a beer and wine beer and wine, but there's, there's,
[41:42] so there's some, you know, there's some work to do there probably to be in compliance.
[41:45] I also think it needs to be an inviting space. To be fair, I mean, it, it's, it's
[41:51] OK. I think it could be better. I think you could open up views that look outside.
[41:55] I think you could expand the patio capability as I mentioned before. I think you
[41:59] could activate the space downstairs, you know, sort of below the patio. I think there's
[42:04] some things you could do there that would sort of. Um, freshen it up and and create
[42:07] a little bit better ambience. And so this would be probably one of the top priorities.
[42:13] I think it's one of the first things you have to do. I, I put in the deck in the
[42:16] near term, I think you got to address the grill and I think you got to do a few things
[42:19] in the clubhouse to make it a little bit more inviting to the public. I've got one
[42:24] other question for you. Um, going through the, the proposal is you talk about corporate
[42:30] outings. Help me understand what that means. Just some ideas. I mean, we've had a
[42:33] couple of ideas like could we hold fundraisers, you know, could you do some night
[42:36] golf a couple of times in the summer where you raise some money and, you know, and
[42:39] do some things that are fun for the town and. Just try to, try to engage the community
[42:43] in a different way with the golf course. I'm sure the city is fairly limited both
[42:47] in their insurance policies and things that they can and can't do with the use of
[42:50] the course. I think under private ownership you could probably do a few more things.
[42:54] Yeah, just it's, it's, it's, I'm not talking about anything that's. You know, too
[42:59] far fetched. So it's, so it's not bringing in more tournaments than and closing.
[43:04] No, I haven't thought, no, I wouldn't think so. It sounds like you guys have a pretty
[43:06] robust schedule the way the golf course is set up today. I think the junior program's
[43:10] terrific. I think the, I think the pro shop does a great job. I don't think you want
[43:14] to touch that stuff. You just want to make it, you just want to enhance it just a
[43:16] little bit. 11 last question. The old nine. What's your vision for that? It's a great
[43:21] question. I, I don't know. I don't know the answer. I think it, it's a great course.
[43:25] People love it. Um, I love the, I prefer the 18 hole personally. I think the 18 hole
[43:29] course is great. Um, I think there's things you could do with it over time, but again,
[43:33] I think all of that, that's why you do a lease is subject to anything you wanna do.
[43:37] You gotta come before the city if you got other ideas. And, and by the way, as careful
[43:41] as I want to be in the approach here, I mean that in all sincerity. I don't think
[43:45] you should show up and suggest a ton of change out of the gate on any of this stuff.
[43:49] I think you got to show good stewardship for a couple of years, and then as you get
[43:52] smarter around what helps the golf course versus what hurts it, uh, you could come.
[43:56] I know for a fact, based on just sort of my background and the types of partners
[44:00] I have, that we can come up with some fun ideas to present to the town if people
[44:03] want to go there. If they don't stay exactly how it is forever. It's fine. That's
[44:08] how I feel about it at least.
[44:12] You mentioned that, excuse me, that you weren't really interested in an ROI. No,
[44:17] no, no, I definitely want to break even, make a little bit of money if you can, but
[44:21] I, I don't think you buy golf courses just as a rule of thumb. I've looked at a lot
[44:24] of them because they're moneymakers. They generally aren't. They really genuinely
[44:27] aren't. Yeah, I, I, I can put my hand on my heart and say the only reason I'm here
[44:31] today, even going through this process, because I'm just passionate about Polson.
[44:35] I love the golf course, all the memories I've had on it, and I think it could be
[44:38] better. It's that simple.
[44:43] Good. Any follow up?
[44:47] Yeah, I'd just like to one, thank you for your proposal and thank you for all the
[44:52] good things you had to say about the course and our town. Um, I think we all agree
[44:57] on that. Um, I guess my. My feeling, and I think I speak for a lot of the community
[45:03] here is We like it like it is, we know we can make some improvements, but if we wanted
[45:10] all the luxuries and all the amenities, we could go to Whitefish, we could go anywhere
[45:15] else, but we choose to stay here. And to be fair, you're enjoying a golf course as
[45:23] it is because of Cameron and Pat. Um, yes, it's the city golf course, but they're
[45:30] the ones that make it what it is, and so I think it needs to be. Understood that
[45:37] the city is not making it great. Well, I, I'm not sure I totally understand the last
[45:44] part, but I want to be really clear. I thought I said this at the beginning. I think
[45:46] both Cameron and Pat have done a wonderful job. Yeah, they have. Yeah, I think we're
[45:50] on the same page there, so I just want to make sure I'm clear. No, we are OK, right.
[45:56] You know, I'm.
[45:59] I'm done. Um, so I just wanna go one back one more time. So, where you've got investors
[46:06] in this, right? Yeah, I mean we could do it ourselves, but we could bring in a few
[46:09] families that all care about the town, and there's a lot of ways that we could, we
[46:12] could do this. Uh, it kind of clarify to me, so I'm, I'm trying to figure out how
[46:17] do you make money. How, how do you put money in your pocket when we have the enterprise
[46:22] fund and the way the situation now. Uh, can you be a little more descriptive in your
[46:27] question? I'm sorry, I'm not, so at the end of the line, OK, so, OK, let's go back
[46:31] to this thing. So you've got, uh, you're proposing a 99 year lease. OK. And the
[46:39] 99 year lease is basically. I'm sure Rick could tell you that's called a purchase.
[46:46] It's the same thing. Whatever you want to call it, we can structure it however makes
[46:50] the 99 year lease is a long time, so you're going to pay into it $50,000 a year for
[46:56] 10 years, nothing after that. So, the city gets the money for 10 years, but after
[47:04] that, there's no money coming into it. Well, I think you have to, again, I want to
[47:09] be really clear. I said this at the beginning. This is not a, like a concrete proposal
[47:13] yet. This is a proposal for discussion. The only thing we have before us is this.
[47:17] Yeah, I'd be open to all feedback on the structure we're doing this, yeah. Kind of
[47:21] clarify some stuff for ourselves. So the proposal, the way you put it out, there's
[47:28] no inflation adjustments, there's no revenue sharing, there's no reevaluation. The
[47:34] idea would be, you know, a fair market rent reset, lease reset after probably 5 years,
[47:41] uh, uh, and, and then an escalation cost for, uh, for a CPI. Um, I, I just don't,
[47:49] I don't see it in the proposal, but, and maybe that was something, you know, they
[47:53] have for I think we'd be open to all feedback. I think you got to be cognizant of
[47:56] a couple of things because, right, it's not all sunshine and rainbows on the private
[48:00] side either because we're going to have to get insurance policies and other things
[48:03] put in place that now have carried by the city, correct? I would assume on that property.
[48:07] So your expense line items are going to grow as well, right, as the operator, so
[48:11] you're going to pick up the ongoing run rate of expenses. And I think the business
[48:15] probably has the best I can understand is somewhere between 1 million or 2 million
[48:19] bucks of free cash flow that you have to have in it just to operate it, right? I
[48:23] think it does a little over $2.5 million in revenue and best as I can tell with the
[48:27] numbers, it nets about $2,000,000 a year if you kind of go back and straight line
[48:32] it over a number of years. It's had some years of retired. It's had some years where
[48:34] it's lower. Uh, it probably has a lot to do with this gentleman's question on what
[48:38] the grill's doing long term. I think you're challenged, and by the way, if I wasn't
[48:42] standing here if somebody else was standing here, I would say this to the city as
[48:45] an advisor or as a golf advisory board, if you decide to go down the path of bringing
[48:49] in a private partner to help operate the golf course, whether it's me or anyone else.
[48:53] That if somebody's gonna put in a significant amount of capex into the facilities
[48:57] and into the golf course, they're gonna want a greater certainty or line of sight
[49:01] on what that structure is. So if it's resetting every 5 years, right, and you can
[49:05] do some inflation adjusted CPI stuff. I, I hear you on that, Larry. Like if there's,
[49:09] there's a reason to sort of structure it that way, you could do that. You can put
[49:11] a little bit of that in. And I think honestly, and I, I think I've been pretty clear
[49:14] about this with Ed and with both mayors, like this needs to be a win-win for the
[49:18] town. Uh, I think that's why the suggestion of paying a million dollars over a period
[49:22] of time is, is probably 2x what a golf course like this would sell for in an open
[49:27] marketplace today. And so I was trying to do something that actually kept the town
[49:30] in as a partner a little bit longer. OK, well, you kind of look at it, I, I, I have
[49:36] to say, you know, your family's been great for the community. I, I admire the family
[49:41] and, and things like that, um. It, you have to, from your side. We look at
[49:49] each other every day. We have numerous people sitting back there, all volunteers
[49:54] for you. If we're going down the fairway, we pick up a stick and put it someplace
[49:58] else. We volunteer to do this. We try to do the best we can because this is our golf
[50:03] course and we have a passion for it. So we, versus uh you, I mean, out of the area
[50:10] person comes up a little bit during the year, we have to look at each other in the
[50:15] face every day. So if we're screwing up, I mean, I'm looking over and I'm getting
[50:20] from them. So, just to tell you how I feel that. Is that we are, have a little bit
[50:27] different perspective just the way it is because you're considered an outsider, but
[50:31] your family has done a lot of good stuff for the community. That's one way to think
[50:36] about it. One last thing, um. We as the board,
[50:45] you know, see the revenue reports every month, and we see the expenditures and we
[50:48] see the budgets and so on and so on. So, um, that does a fabulous job with getting
[50:55] things done. I know there's things that need to be improved on, but I, I see a proposal
[51:03] from private enterprise. And if there's any extra money, you're going to put it in
[51:09] your pocket. And I think as a board, we need to protect the city because every dollar
[51:15] that leaves town is a dollar that's not going on the golf course. So That's the way
[51:21] I look at it. I'm sorry. It's the way it is. Anybody else follow up? Yeah, I'm.
[51:28] I'm sure those are good questions, I've got here. I'm sorry, what? So open it up
[51:34] to the public for comments if there's any, I think you've got one more, yeah, one
[51:39] more thing. Hold on, I've got a question for Ed, um. This was an unsolicited proposals.
[51:46] I understand. Is the city thinking about going with a, a solicitor proposal broader,
[51:55] you know, that's a very good question. Um, as we talked about before, we have a group
[52:00] that's been actively working on a lease proposal, right? So the city commission is
[52:07] aware of that, um. With a second proposal, I, I think that the decision that that
[52:14] this leads the city commission to is. If they are interested in leasing the property.
[52:22] Then probably their best next step is a request for proposal process where we put
[52:28] out an RFP and we let folks submit a refined proposal back to the city and we
[52:36] go through, uh, an evaluation process, uh, scoring those proposals and bringing those
[52:42] proposals back to the city commission. Um, is it, do you, do you envision the The
[52:49] advice of the golf advisory board being part of that of putting the proposal together,
[52:56] putting the RFP together as well as evaluating the RFP, absolutely, I would think
[53:00] that would be a, given the, the, the scope of what this board has done in the past,
[53:06] I think that would be an appropriate, uh, measure for the, for the board to be involved
[53:11] in, absolutely. Would you also engage public comment in your decision? So we always
[53:17] engage public comment. I mean, that's why we have the public here today in terms
[53:21] of, uh, yeah, so you know the way a process like that might look is that. You would
[53:29] work, we would work with the golf advisory board. We put together a request for proposal.
[53:34] We would pre-decide like how many points we're gonna be awarded for different items
[53:39] and, and craft a proposal that then gets put out, advertised, similar to. How we
[53:45] do all of our construction, major construction projects. The RFP would come back,
[53:50] we would have a group then, uh, folks that would be selected to, to score the RFP,
[53:56] um, that would then result in a recommendation to the city commission. And then the
[54:02] city commission can make whatever decision they want to make. If for some reason,
[54:07] um, they disagree with that, they could reject all of the proposals. I mean, I mean,
[54:12] it's ultimately it's their decision, uh, as the governing body for the for the city
[54:17] of Folsom, um, but that, that tends to be a process, you know, before. Mr. Tanner's
[54:23] proposal, we had one group that was interested that had ever said, hey, we'd like
[54:27] to talk with you about doing that. Once you get more than one group and you get into
[54:32] where If the city commission wants to lease the golf course to where you're choosing,
[54:38] um, then uh, the best choosing is really to do a request for proposal process and,
[54:44] and involve people in it, both decision makers and advisors as, as well as the public.
[54:51] Yeah, may, may I ask a question? Is this an appropriate time for me to ask a question?
[54:57] So I'm on the city commission, and I am the first to admit that I sometimes miss.
[55:06] I'm not on the horse when it's walking through the commission. I missed the point,
[55:10] but I had never heard. That the previous mayor had been involved in this. The first
[55:18] time I heard of this, the first time that I recall hearing of this proposal was at
[55:24] the previous city commission meeting when we had to, we were asked to approve these
[55:30] workshops on this date with this really quick turnaround. So I am, my question is,
[55:37] did I miss. I'm being informed that another proposal was being discussed,
[55:46] that you and the second one was being discussed, that you and the previous mayor,
[55:51] no, you did not because we didn't have a proposal until. Did you inform the city
[55:56] commission that a second proposal that that I can't remember, are you Mr. Tanner
[56:02] or Mr. Dallas or Mr. Dallas, Mr. Tanner, whatever you want Dallas.
[56:09] Did you inform the commission? I mean, was I sleeping on the job, or did you let
[56:14] the commission know that this was coming up? Just, just that previous one. The previous
[56:19] meeting was the first time, and we had to schedule the meeting this quickly because,
[56:25] because Mr. Tanner was going to be in town. And, and we wanted to go ahead and kick
[56:30] the beat, get the, get the topic out publicly. This was his opportunity to be in
[56:35] town for the, for the only period, for some period of time. And so we said, well,
[56:40] let's go ahead and do it so we can start the conversation publicly. And that's why
[56:44] we did that. This question then would be for me as an individual. Commissioner, not
[56:49] as not speaking for the commission. I want to be real clear there in both places.
[56:54] I was speaking as an individual commissioner, not speaking for the commission, but
[56:58] it seems to me as I looked at your proposal that you were hoping to have this complete
[57:03] by June 2026. I just put a date out just saying, guys, I want to be really clear
[57:08] about something. This thing took legs on like I would have never expected. Yeah,
[57:12] so do you do that a lot, like just put a date out? No, no, no, I just thought if,
[57:17] if there were an opportunity after having talked to the city manager and also the
[57:21] mayor, that we would love to work over the next 4 or 5 months to come to an agreement.
[57:26] Super, thank you. No problem.
[57:30] So I would say Dave, to your question, if there's nothing else on the board and you
[57:34] want to take some public comment, that's fine over here, yeah, I, I wanna appreciate.
[57:41] Thank you. You're a nice guy. So, uh, state your name. I will. I took the liberty
[57:47] of writing some my thoughts down and hopefully I can distribute you later on so you
[57:52] can see where I'm coming from. I've been a golfer for over 55 years and I know I
[57:55] don't look that old. Tony Fisher.
[58:01] But I feel like I'm in court. 38185 Ponarillo Drive, 2490017. That can attest, hack
[58:08] golfer. But, you know, uh, in that 55 years I've been playing golf, I've been city
[58:15] courses, private clubs, the whole spectrum. And what I guess what kind of concerned
[58:21] me, and, and he's a very successful businessman, and I'm sure a lot of you all are
[58:25] very successful businessmen.
[58:28] My simple mind says, when you're in business, you gotta make a profit. You just don't
[58:34] do capital expenditures for the good of it. And in the golf course, where's your
[58:40] capital come from? Comes from these people's fees. Our pass holders is his capital
[58:48] investment. So I think he has a lot of wonderful ideas here. But it's going to be
[58:53] us pass holders who are on the hook for that capital investment. And the beauty of
[58:58] playing Paulson right now, as I think what you pointed out, and he pointed it out,
[59:02] is that it's affordable. You know, could it be a glamorous, as he said in his other
[59:08] thing, a destination golf course? You bet it can. You know, if I wanna have Pat,
[59:14] you know, cut the greens, double roll them, or roll them and double cut them, you
[59:18] can make those greens as tough as you want to make them, and people will be pulling
[59:21] their hair out. But I don't know if that's the intent. The intent is for the average
[59:26] golfer to go out there and enjoy it, and I hope that's kind of what you do. I did
[59:31] put some little bullets in here that if you're seriously thinking about such things
[59:35] as 99 year leases from my federal side when I used to work in contracts, I strongly
[59:40] suggest that you have what we used to call a death bullet. Which basically in the
[59:45] clause of the contract says, we can terminate this contract at any time for the convenience
[59:50] of the city of Polson. And without that, there is nothing that overhangs these guys
[59:56] that They can do what they want. Second of all, and I hope the Finley Point ninja
[1:00:02] grizzly doesn't eat you on your way home, but should he leave? And we don't have
[1:00:10] no reassurance or idea who the next group of partners coming in is. And maybe they're
[1:00:15] not golfers, and maybe they want to go live in Hawaii. And so the question to you
[1:00:21] is, will you have a mechanism by which you can reassume the golf course if that all
[1:00:26] of a sudden they say, we default, we're out of here. Are you going to hold some sort
[1:00:30] of bond over their heads saying we need a year's worth of operating capital you put
[1:00:34] into a bond structure so that if you dodge and head out the door, we have the resources
[1:00:40] to reopen it. And then my last thing is, you know, Right now, if I got a complaint,
[1:00:48] I know Pat and I know Cameron, and I know John, I can walk in here and say, hey guys.
[1:00:54] And I've never had an issue with the overall issue with him, but if it goes to a
[1:00:58] private sector, which I've had experience with, for the most part, the membership
[1:01:03] didn't have any say whatsoever. And so if you're going to do this, you know, another
[1:01:09] clause in the contract is that they should be liable to a satisfaction survey of
[1:01:13] the pass holders in terms of fees, playability, friendlyship, all that sort of stuff
[1:01:20] is the only way to protect it. And I say that because just like Glacier Park is a
[1:01:25] park that belongs to all of us. Folsom Bay Golf Course is a park in a sense, that
[1:01:31] belongs to all of us. So I hear little conversations going on like, well, the city
[1:01:36] council do this or do that. I would just remind people that it belongs to the citizens
[1:01:41] of Polson. And that that should be a thought that should prevail over everything
[1:01:47] is what we are doing in the best interest of the citizens of Holson, and it may very
[1:01:52] well be. I'm not educated enough in business and whatnot to say it is or not, but
[1:01:56] there's got to be some protections built in there so that we don't lose this incredible
[1:02:00] resource that we have right now. Thank you. Thank you again.
[1:02:09] Some of that there something.
[1:02:12] I have a comment. Go ahead. Do I need to come up there? Yes, please. And the reason
[1:02:18] is because that microphone puts it straight into the recording. It's not because
[1:02:23] we're trying to disadvantage folks or whatever. It just helps us keep a good record
[1:02:27] of of the you know. Could you limit it to 3 minutes, please.
[1:02:34] Janice Donovan, 119 Eagle Drive in Polson. I play golf a little, but I love the
[1:02:41] course a lot and I love this town tremendously. And my comment here is,
[1:02:48] who makes this final decision? And speaking of a microphone, I couldn't hear a lot
[1:02:52] of what you were saying because you speak away from the microphone. So my question
[1:02:58] is, does the city council make the final decision? Does the city commissioners make
[1:03:04] the final decision? Does Mr. Meese, do the people who live here ever get a vote or
[1:03:10] a say so? How is this finally determined? And I want to hear all parts because I
[1:03:16] know there was a second proposal, and I want to hear that also. But this is very
[1:03:22] important to everybody that lives here, and you may be the best deal. And you may
[1:03:27] not be, but we have to figure out the best deal for us because we're gonna be here.
[1:03:33] Thank you.
[1:03:40] Somebody in front here? Did you want to ask, answer her question? Yes, please. OK.
[1:03:45] So, who, who is? What's my answer? So, right. So, as I was saying earlier, um, The
[1:03:51] city commission is could you get closer to the microphone, please? Thank you. So
[1:03:56] the city commission is the final decision maker on anything with regard to the city
[1:04:01] of Tulsa, whether it's installing a water line or if you were going to make some
[1:04:06] kind of a lease transaction with the golf course. They're the final decision makers.
[1:04:10] Um, we have advisory boards. We have administrative staff that might be helpful and
[1:04:15] make recommendations or, or particular, uh, advice, but the actual final decision
[1:04:21] is made by the city commissioner. Do I need to come back up there? Yeah. Do we ever
[1:04:27] get a vote anywhere? As all the people. So that, I mean this, you know, like other
[1:04:34] issues that come before the city again, they come to the city commission. The city
[1:04:38] commission is the final decision maker, but there's always opportunity for public
[1:04:43] comment. There's always opportunity for you to speak with your ward city commissioner
[1:04:48] to attend city commission meetings to make written public comment and to engage in
[1:04:53] any of that, but we don't take in this form of government in Montana, we don't take
[1:04:57] like a. A citizen's poll, uh, if that's what you're asking for. Um, now, if, if I
[1:05:05] guess if the city commission wanted to do that, you know, maybe.
[1:05:10] Maybe they can call for a referendum. Um, I don't know that and I'm kind of speaking
[1:05:15] out of turn. I'm not trying to play city attorney here, but typically on issues like
[1:05:20] this, it's, it's a city commission decision and, um, and then they collect all of
[1:05:26] the public feedback that they can in. In order to make that decision, well, this
[1:05:33] is Carolyn. I'm gonna speak again to that. Yes, you do get to vote because I'm an
[1:05:38] elected official, so your vote is when you vote for a commissioner. And then I am,
[1:05:46] I'm different than Ed. Because I'm an elected official and it's my responsibility
[1:05:52] to listen to you and and and consider that. It doesn't mean that you can call me
[1:05:58] up and tell me how to vote, but it does mean that I'm responsible to listen to you.
[1:06:04] That's our form of government. So you have 76 commissioners and a mayor, and you
[1:06:11] can reach out to us any time and tell us what you think about. Pretty much anything
[1:06:18] and we're pretty good about listening and um. And then trying to do the very
[1:06:26] best as who spoke about trying to do the very best for Paulson because I think everyone
[1:06:31] on the commission is dedicated to that. You're gonna say something, Tracy? So another
[1:06:36] commissioner, another elected. I
[1:06:42] thank you.
[1:06:45] Um, I've just been so enjoying this meeting. I really enjoyed it for lots of reasons,
[1:06:51] uh, but I wanted to address your question also that you had, you know, we represent
[1:06:58] you. We represent you, so it's really important that you find out who your ward representative
[1:07:05] is that's on the city council, the city commission, because that is your person that
[1:07:11] represents you and that you have their ear and you tell them how you feel about all
[1:07:17] kinds of things, whether it's just this today or anything that comes up. You can
[1:07:21] always listen to the meetings online, uh, when they're actually happening to the
[1:07:26] commission meetings, and you can call in. And have your voice heard there too. So
[1:07:32] it's really important to be active in your city government just like you are here.
[1:07:37] Don't just get passionate about the golf course, get passionate about everything
[1:07:42] and call your board representative and talk to them and tell them how you feel because
[1:07:48] we are representing you on the council. That's what we're all about. So it's not
[1:07:53] just our opinion, it's, it's our words of opinion that's so important. So I've enjoyed
[1:07:59] seeing all you here because you're so passionate about the golf course, as we all
[1:08:03] are, because we just love it. And then here and meet the golf association. I haven't
[1:08:10] had that opportunity, but I figured out who all of you were. Uh, next time, please
[1:08:16] introduce yourselves so that those in the audience know who you are because you don't
[1:08:21] have your name tags up there, but it's really nice to know that who you are now and
[1:08:26] that you're, you're the golf association. Advisory board, sorry, advisory board.
[1:08:32] Let me get that right, the advisory board.
[1:08:35] So I do know Rick and now I'm getting to know Dallas Tanner, Mr. Tan,
[1:08:43] Mr. Tanner Dallas? OK, I'll get it right,
[1:08:50] but um. Uh, my question is, we have this great advisory board that cares deeply about
[1:08:57] the city. Golf course. And you go back years and years and years, and you've tried
[1:09:04] to take care of the golf course as best you can, working in the parameters that you,
[1:09:08] you do have. And then we have this also this family that cares deeply
[1:09:16] about helping the golf course. But is there a way that I wanted to ask you, that
[1:09:23] you would consider joining the advisory board? And helping them that way rather than
[1:09:28] being a private investor that comes in that way because you have ideas of improvement
[1:09:34] as they do and maybe you have a little bit of ways that we can as advisory board
[1:09:40] tap into some funds to help run a really nice public golf course so to be, you know,
[1:09:46] it's not like you're, you've mentioned it's not a money maker for you, at least that's
[1:09:50] what you're saying. But you care, but you care deeply about the course. Well, you
[1:09:56] also care deeply about the people of Pulsive, and this is your, this is your peeps.
[1:10:01] This is your group. So is there a way that we can blend both? Is there a way without
[1:10:06] a proposal, we can have you be part of the advisory committee, and would you guys
[1:10:11] entertain that? So that he can, his expertise on how to get money for different projects
[1:10:17] and what he's seen in other golf courses and whether you take it or not, you're part,
[1:10:21] he's giving you advice. He's part of the advisory board. He's giving you advice of
[1:10:25] maybe, hey, maybe we should do this so that when you do come back with your family
[1:10:29] and you golf all the time here, it just keeps. Is that something where we don't deal
[1:10:34] with a private group proposal group, but you're, we grab your expertise that way.
[1:10:39] Something to think about where we have a win-win for both. That's my question. Hey,
[1:10:46] can I make a comment, respond to that? Sure, so I mean I would say that's Mr. OK,
[1:10:55] yeah, yeah, no, that's fine. That was my question. OK, thanks so much. It was great.
[1:10:59] Um, here, here's what I would say is a, at a high level. I would totally encourage
[1:11:04] the city and the, the golf advisory board to bring an outside perspective, whether
[1:11:09] that were me or somebody, you know, that might offer a different think about what
[1:11:14] you guys want to accomplish with the golf course. If the proposal at best is an opportunity
[1:11:19] to start a discussion. That I think it's probably a healthy thing, um, we tend to
[1:11:25] grow when we stretch, right? When we get a little uncomfortable and we think about
[1:11:28] things and there's no, there should be no different for how you wanna think to improve
[1:11:32] things here in the city. What I would say as a, as a private thinking sort of mindset
[1:11:37] is. Look, my encouragement, if the proposal does anything at best encourages the
[1:11:42] city to decide what they want to do here. If the plan is you want to keep it in the
[1:11:45] city forever, that's one path you can do that. And then I think to her point, you
[1:11:51] could start to think about ways to improve it and maybe raise capital around some
[1:11:55] different ideas. There's a lot of ways cities have access to do bonds and things
[1:11:59] like that. I'd be more than willing to help any advisory board, especially this one
[1:12:05] place I like to call home. So if, if it were someone like me or somebody that was
[1:12:09] enthusiastic about, you know, the summer experience, put a couple of people on your
[1:12:12] advisory board. Let them zoom in remotely and, and sort of offer some. Advisor just
[1:12:17] just to have them on as advisors to to compare notes with the challenges you guys
[1:12:22] know, and I've served, I mentioned at the beginning, I served on the Maricopa County
[1:12:24] Flood Control Advisory Board. We had an $80 million budget for the city of Phoenix,
[1:12:28] and we're in charge of all the canal systems, OK? And that was, I served for two
[1:12:31] or three years. It's hard to get things through municipal when you want to change
[1:12:37] anything. It's, it's tricky. I don't know how it is here, but it was really hard
[1:12:40] in Phoenix, OK. So my advice to you as a fellow golfer and friend is like. Maybe
[1:12:46] this, if anything, spurs the debate about what you want to do with the golf course
[1:12:49] long term and then if there's an opportunity for a public-private partnership, then
[1:12:53] we go down that path and I'll sharpen my pencil and we'll come back with another
[1:12:56] proposal and we'll work with the board and try to figure it out. I think, I think
[1:13:00] at the end of the day, the best part about this meeting in my view is just the passion
[1:13:04] around the common area space of the golf course. I expected it. I just didn't know
[1:13:08] it would show up this excited this early. It's great. And, and so I, I think we ought
[1:13:13] to try to think through how to do some things better or in a more different sort
[1:13:17] of way where it can just improve the overall experience. I think to your question,
[1:13:20] it gets really hard when you know you have some upfront costs on some things if you
[1:13:25] want it to be great. That's where it puts constraints on the city, and that may be
[1:13:29] an unfair ask of the city, right, just given all the needs it has to meet, so. I'm
[1:13:33] all ears. We're here to help. We could put a couple of people around you to help
[1:13:37] in any way we could. We have a lot of relationships. We've been around the golf business
[1:13:40] a long time and, you know, a lot of people, but that's where public and private can
[1:13:43] be sort of tough.
[1:13:48] Well, I, I wanted to get just ask the question a bit, and I don't, I, I don't have
[1:13:54] any background or knowledge of this, but can this, can there be a city referendum?
[1:14:00] I think to 11 of the questions is, can there be a city referendum that votes on something
[1:14:06] like this moving forward. I don't know. I, I think that's a good question that we
[1:14:11] can put to the city attorney and we can do some research on that. The city does have
[1:14:16] the ability to do that in other places on other issues, um. But I don't want to get
[1:14:22] too far ahead of myself and say yes or no. Well, I think that's something, so you
[1:14:26] haven't been, you have not experienced something like this where you've put it up
[1:14:31] for a referendum on a golf course, not on a golf course, but just on, on an issue.
[1:14:36] Yeah, I mean, I, for instance, you know, I've been in a community where we did a
[1:14:40] community referendum, um, for additional mills, uh, for the purpose of construction
[1:14:47] of a railroad. Railroad underpass, um. I, I've seen, I've
[1:14:55] seen boats taken, so it is possible it is Montana law. There's a tool. Like that
[1:15:03] for other things. I just don't wanna say there's absolutely a tool for this and then
[1:15:09] have to say there's not. I, I have seen it done in other issues and in other places,
[1:15:15] but we can, we can research that further. I've got notes to do that, and I can address
[1:15:20] part of that a little bit. The Buffalo Hills. Two of those leases in Buffalo Hills
[1:15:26] in Kalispell were there was a referendum. Nay, Pardon me. Nay more.
[1:15:34] I'm Lisa Reard. I'm city commissioner for Ward 2, and looking at this stuff, the
[1:15:40] city of Kalispell has held. Referendum elections for two of its Buffalo Hills leases
[1:15:47] in the past. The most recent one, I don't think that it did. There is a statute in,
[1:15:54] uh, in Chapter 7 that does call for elections for service contracts, municipal service
[1:16:01] contracts that are to exceed 5 years. I don't find that that necessarily applies,
[1:16:08] but that is something that we do need a legal, we need a legal opinion on before
[1:16:12] a final decision is made, so. That's to answer some of the question. Apparently it's
[1:16:18] been done in the past in other communities that have looked at this, so, thank you.
[1:16:25] The back.
[1:16:34] My name is Deborah Chapman. We live at 297 Montana Landing in Pulsa. My question,
[1:16:41] um, I would like to know, is the golf course the largest money maker for the city
[1:16:45] of Tulsa?
[1:16:53] The largest money maker. Um-hum.
[1:16:58] Um,
[1:17:01] you know, we have pretty extensive water and sewer utilities, so, so. The golf course
[1:17:07] is operated as an enterprise fund very under, under state law, the same as our water
[1:17:14] and our sewer utilities are operated, uh, as enterprise funds.
[1:17:20] The results are different, right? And it depends on year to year what kind of capital
[1:17:25] projects are going on, so we try not to take on a lot of debt in any of our enterprise
[1:17:30] funds. So one year it might be that the golf course is doing, uh, has a, a larger.
[1:17:38] Hesitate to use the word profit, so I'll call it reserve, um, end of the year reserve
[1:17:44] amount. It might be that one of the water or sewer is in a different year if they're
[1:17:48] per se, maybe they're building a reserve and not spending their capital so they can
[1:17:53] put that out in year 3 for a project. So it really just kind of depends year to year,
[1:17:58] but it, it's a, it's a very substantial piece of the work that we do. I mean I put
[1:18:03] it that way. My other question was, it seems like the golf commission was more or
[1:18:06] less left out. The conversation, should we say with these proposals that are coming
[1:18:12] in and should not they be included in proposals or anything that's brought to the
[1:18:19] city? So that's exactly why we're here today, right? So, um, we had a proposal that
[1:18:27] was given to the city and we had a very narrow window to get somebody here because
[1:18:33] they were gonna be here. Um, and so we published a meeting so that these folks would
[1:18:38] have an opportunity to see the proposal, ask questions, and, and start the conversation.
[1:18:43] That's exactly what we did. OK. My, my only other question is, is there any way that
[1:18:48] we as golfers, community members, we all golf, is there any way for us to know where
[1:18:55] the so-called administration fees that come from the golf course, what they're used
[1:19:00] for in the city? Sure, the act, so I, I'm gonna go back just to, is this OK, Dave,
[1:19:07] if I go on down this road? Sure. So, um, I think what you're talking about is the
[1:19:12] administrative allocation that we do, and we could do a whole separate meeting on
[1:19:18] this, but I have had that conversation with this board probably 2 years ago, went
[1:19:24] very in depth about trying to explain where that comes from, but, um. Very I don't
[1:19:31] see it right now, but in a very simple basis, right? What we do as a city, not any
[1:19:36] different than any other, or I'll say most other cities do. Is we take those administrative
[1:19:43] costs, um, like HR, legal, insurance, those types of things that benefit the whole
[1:19:51] organization. And then we allocate those costs back to all of our different units
[1:19:57] based on their proportion of the budget and not, not totally for the golf course.
[1:20:04] What's that? Not totally. Those, those administrative fees are not only used just
[1:20:08] for the golf course. No, no. So we're actually collecting those fees from all of
[1:20:13] the different departments so that we can pay for those expenditures, right? So for
[1:20:18] instance, if you point towards the golf course, the golf course uses my time. The
[1:20:22] golf course uses the city attorney's time. We spend a lot of HR time on the golf
[1:20:27] course. The golf course participates in all of our insurance programs. So all of
[1:20:33] those costs that we're absorbing in the general fund, the property tax fund if you
[1:20:38] will, what we do with that allocation is we make sure that our enterprise funds are
[1:20:44] paying their fair share and you don't have the property taxes subsidizing a business
[1:20:51] fund, right? Because the idea is that a water fund, a sewer fund, a golf fund, they
[1:20:57] should be self-supporting with their own fees and rates and schedules. And you don't,
[1:21:02] you don't take property taxes and then subsidize an enterprise fund. That's, that's
[1:21:08] the wrong way for the money to flow, right? So that's, so that's not much different
[1:21:14] than a lot of, I would say probably a lot of businesses do the same thing. You group
[1:21:17] up your administrative costs and then every department has a share of those costs,
[1:21:23] whether they're general fund or enterprise fund or special revenue fund. Based on
[1:21:28] how big a burden they represent to the overall organization and typically one of
[1:21:34] the ways you do that is just by their proportion of budget. So how big is their budget
[1:21:40] compared to the overall total city? It just seems like, you know, over the years
[1:21:45] we've been here for 23 years, so we've watched this ad administrative fee grow. Yeah,
[1:21:52] can I answer that? Can I answer that? So, um, that's a very good point. When I came
[1:21:57] to the city, the administrative fee for the golf course was $30,000. It
[1:22:05] was a totally made up number. It, it covered, it didn't cover nearly any of the cost,
[1:22:12] it's proportional rate of the cost that it was taking from the general fund. It was
[1:22:17] simply a number that somebody somewhere in history said they liked the number 30,000,
[1:22:23] so they stuck it in there and um that was the number that the city was playing with.
[1:22:28] So what that actually meant was. When we now I think the general, the uh administrative
[1:22:35] cost allocation is about 78. Does that sound right 998. OK, so 98. So what that meant
[1:22:41] was that the property taxpayer was subsidizing the golf course to the tune of $68,000
[1:22:49] a year. Right? And we said that, that shouldn't be happening that way. The golf course
[1:22:54] should pay for its portion of the administrative cost the same as everybody else
[1:23:00] does. So we took that $30,000 number which was actually included in a bond, uh,
[1:23:08] document over the purchase of. Golf carts, I think. Anyways, we went back to the
[1:23:13] bank. We made all the changes we needed to make, and now we, we do an administrative
[1:23:19] allocation to the golf course just like any other department so that the golf course
[1:23:25] isn't getting subsidized by the property taxes. Before we did that, it was, it was
[1:23:31] getting heavily subsidized in my opinion by property taxes. That's not the way that
[1:23:36] that's supposed to work. The thing about that is, to a degree. The golf course, like
[1:23:43] the sewer department or the water department or any other department, they can manage
[1:23:47] some of those costs. So let me give you an example. Uh, we had a period of about
[1:23:53] 24 months where the golf course was our primary generator of workers' compensation
[1:24:00] claims, OK? Um, that increased their portion of the administrative cost allocation
[1:24:07] because they were such a large piece of those insurance costs for the city. They
[1:24:13] go in and they did training and, and equipment and other types of things. They lowered
[1:24:17] their workers' comp costs and then that impacted their overall administrative cost
[1:24:22] allocation. So I know that's a little bit in the weeds, but it is a huge, I appreciate
[1:24:28] you for asking the question. What I was looking for earlier is my red marker because
[1:24:32] I have a dazzling white board presentation on the administrative cost allocation,
[1:24:37] but there is this mythology. That somehow the city is taking golf course money and
[1:24:44] that is no way accurate. What the city is doing, it's using a proven method. for
[1:24:50] paying its administrative costs that it gives to the golf course, the same method
[1:24:55] that many other cities use, probably a lot of businesses use, and it keeps the property
[1:25:02] taxpayer. From subsidizing the golf course. Or from subsidizing the water system
[1:25:10] or the sewer system. So thank you for that question because I, I just wondered mainly
[1:25:15] because of the, you know, money that they're looking at putting in for the 10 year
[1:25:18] period, $50,000 a year, which doesn't sound like a lot when you've got just, you
[1:25:23] know, something as an example, the administrative fee of $97,000 or $98,000. Well,
[1:25:30] bear in mind that under both of the proposals that we have before us at the moment.
[1:25:36] Those groups are taking the operational costs with them. All the workers' comp, all
[1:25:42] of the work, all of those expenses would go with them, so we don't retain any of
[1:25:46] these operations. Under either one of the pros, OK.
[1:25:52] Thank you, Dave. That still there? You, you.
[1:26:04] That's the question.
[1:26:08] I I'm a terrible speaker, so anyways, my name is Barbara Jacobson, and I grew up
[1:26:15] in Polson. I grew up with the fathers that put the old nine in. Um
[1:26:23] The entry, the entryway into the old 9, the sign, I just want you to know, I mean,
[1:26:28] it's classy. You go down. All my father ran out and we all got little golf bags and
[1:26:36] we golfed that golf course. It was wonderful. Now. Something happened, who
[1:26:44] decided to put in the 18 team over there. And I think they went way over their head.
[1:26:52] Bunkers, I think is a drain. Our entryway into our golf course is deplorable. We
[1:27:00] have no sign that sits down in the ditch, actually an old sign. Um, the shrubbery,
[1:27:06] when you, when you come in, is deplorable. And the road, I don't know, um, Ed, if
[1:27:13] they lease it, how can we get some road maintenance? We need repaving. We need all
[1:27:18] this. It's awful, the road that goes down Baby Drive.
[1:27:23] Under a lease, can they help with those fees? Because a lot of it that's awful over
[1:27:28] the golf course, coming around the golf course. I, I mean, it depends on what you
[1:27:33] put in the lease and how you structure it, so. Well, anyway, I just think that, uh,
[1:27:41] somewhere along the line. They went over their head, and it's, A lot of it is I like
[1:27:48] the golf course is great, fine, but the entryway, the coming in, the road is deplorable.
[1:27:56] And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um,
[1:28:01] Mhm.
[1:28:03] In the morning
[1:28:08] Josh, good to see you. Yeah, um, just wanted to introduce myself more than anything
[1:28:12] else I can answer any questions too. I didn't want to steal away from, um, Dallas's
[1:28:17] time, but I'm Josh Mackey. I'm president of the Folsom Bakeofff Association, the.
[1:28:24] Poor sap who decided to volunteer for that role. Um, no, it's been fun. It's been
[1:28:29] interesting. Uh, oh, by the way, for the record, yes, I live at 40,040 Highland Drive.
[1:28:34] Also, my official mail I.
[1:28:38] Um, So when I heard about Dallas's proposal, uh, I thought, wow, here's an interesting
[1:28:45] curveball because we have been working for a couple of years now on this golf association
[1:28:50] and my only real comments, not necessarily a question as I mentioned, one is just
[1:28:54] wanted to make sure to introduce myself so if anybody does have any questions about
[1:28:57] what's going on with the golf association. We can answer some of those. We can set
[1:29:01] up another workshop session to answer questions with the golf advisory board or with
[1:29:07] city commissioners as well. We definitely want to be transparent. Um, and I really
[1:29:13] just wanted to comment that I appreciate the interest, and when I spoke with Dallas
[1:29:18] about this, uh, privately earlier. Immediately there were some things that we were
[1:29:23] in alignment with. There's no doubt that we love this place, that it's good, and
[1:29:28] we think we can make it better, um, that it's an asset that's valuable to the Polson
[1:29:33] community, to all the visitors that come here, and the fact remains that I think
[1:29:38] a collaborative approach like this one is the right way to go, and I think that ultimately
[1:29:44] I hope we reach whatever proposal, if you will, or option becomes. The one
[1:29:51] chosen, um, that all sides actually will get behind it. So, uh, happy to answer any
[1:29:58] questions if anybody has them for me, but again, didn't want to take too much time
[1:30:00] here.
[1:30:06] Thank you. Uh, is it.
[1:30:10] Yeah,
[1:30:13] that would like to say something.
[1:30:17] I want to ask a question.
[1:30:22] Gosh, did you leave your phone up there?
[1:30:26] No, that, that's the 3 o'clock, 3 minute timer. Hi. Hi, I am Janine Moss. It's M
[1:30:33] A A S. I live at 809 6th Avenue East in Polson, and I am not a golfer, but I wanted
[1:30:39] to come anyway today because Polson is so near and dear to my heart like it is to
[1:30:45] all the golfers. I mean, this is our community. Uh, the biggest reason I wanted to
[1:30:50] come today was the first thing I heard was a 99 year lease just strikes terror in
[1:30:54] my heart, and I hope it does in many others. In my career, I worked, uh, 25 years
[1:31:01] at the Montana Board of Housing, part-time nights in Helena, part-time nights and
[1:31:06] weekends at the 911 dispatcher Center in, in Helena. I'm very familiar with government
[1:31:12] processes, funding cycles, and All things real estate documents. I also spent 18
[1:31:18] years in title companies, so I would really caution anybody about the 99 year lease.
[1:31:24] And then I was surprised with the way the conversation in the room went about another
[1:31:29] proposal being brought forward and Ed's comment about how he could put together an
[1:31:34] RFP, and I heard my mother's voice in my head. And so I'm just gonna share that is
[1:31:40] that sometimes the emphasis is put on the wrong syllable. Just because you get more
[1:31:46] than one proposal does not mean you have to put together an RFP and you have to go
[1:31:50] forward, and that was my comments. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[1:31:57] Good morning.
[1:32:02] Hi, my name is Tanner Beamer. I live at 32. What is my address, Tracy? 32387 Montana
[1:32:07] 35. Um, I, uh, just moved to the Polson area four months ago. Uh, my wife grew up
[1:32:14] here. She's 4th generation in the Polson area. Uh, and we spent the last 10 years
[1:32:19] in Washington DC. Uh, I was a lobbyist for the Cattlemen's Association, so I am,
[1:32:24] uh, uh, pretty familiar with government processes, pretty familiar with budgeting,
[1:32:27] but I am by no means a lawyer or an accountant, um. The, the golf course is very
[1:32:32] near and dear to my heart. Uh, I spent a lot of time out there. One of the first
[1:32:35] things I did when we moved back was get my golf pass for 2026, so I'm excited to
[1:32:39] get out on the course and get that used. Really disappointed that I was out of town
[1:32:42] when you did the, when you opened the course up a couple of weeks ago, uh, but that's
[1:32:45] all right. Uh, I guess the, the, the, the comment I wanna make is really more so,
[1:32:50] uh, a question. Uh, I'm just really curious about the financials. Uh, I have followed
[1:32:57] up on this through the reporting that the leader has done. Um, I actually spent quite
[1:33:01] a bit of time over the last couple of days on the city website looking at at budgets,
[1:33:06] and I am just a little bit curious, right? I mean, I, I am not here to make comment
[1:33:09] on whether a 99 year lease is a good thing or a bad thing. It is a pretty standard
[1:33:13] business practice for a transaction or an agreement kind of like this, um. a million
[1:33:18] dollars over 10 years though, if I'm not mistaken and I'm understanding the reporting
[1:33:23] correctly, the, the golf course netted over $400,000 last year, so you're almost
[1:33:28] halfway to a million dollars in one year. Now I don't know if that's an outstanding
[1:33:31] year compared to years past, um, so I, I am just very curious about how all that
[1:33:36] works. If I was addressing the commission, I'd probably structure my comments a little
[1:33:40] bit different because I'm also curious about, as I understand it, that all operates
[1:33:44] through the enterprise fund. And this proposal, as I understand it, sends all of
[1:33:48] that money to the general fund. So I guess my, my question would be what then becomes
[1:33:53] of the enterprise fund? How does that go to make sure that golf revenues go back
[1:33:58] to support golf activities? So that's the question that the company I think. Thank
[1:34:02] you.
[1:34:05] Dave, just for a quick clarification, I mean. I, I don't know that we've ever said
[1:34:10] that these funds go back to the general fund. Um, it's an enterprise fund and so
[1:34:16] I would imagine that we would want to make sure that these funds were staying in
[1:34:21] the enterprise fund. They'd be part of the golf course. I don't, I don't know that
[1:34:25] you necessarily want to take dollars generated by leasing the golf course and then
[1:34:31] transfer them back to the general. I'm not saying you can't, but that the city commission
[1:34:35] might. I, I would think that would be more of a reinvestment type of a tool for the
[1:34:41] golf course. So that's just off the fly from the city manager. It's not a legal opinion
[1:34:47] either. So, well, right, OK. OK
[1:34:57] Hello, I'm Kobe Gherkey, 110 Main Street, Polson, Montana. I'm here representing
[1:35:03] the Flathead Lakers, and I'm just gonna talk very briefly about my role with the
[1:35:08] golf course and my role not as a golfer. Um, the course is an amazing asset. It sits
[1:35:14] right next to Betcher Park, one of the most popular, uh, public access points on
[1:35:18] Flathead Lake. We've been doing water quality testing at Betcher Park since 2017,
[1:35:25] and that park consistently. Is too high for E. coli, above safe thresholds in the
[1:35:31] summer, and that is largely because of runoff coming off of the old mine on the golf
[1:35:35] course. We've been working with Pat and his team over there to start looking at ways
[1:35:41] to introduce biofiltration and filter out some of that harmful bacteria that's entering
[1:35:46] the lake, as well as pesticides and nutrients, and to date. We're planning on investing
[1:35:51] over $150,000 of private money into that project in the next coming year, and if
[1:35:58] we're successful with a couple more proposals that we're working on, that number
[1:36:02] will grow over 200. So just right there, you've got public-private partnership already
[1:36:07] in existence on this project. I'm not here to comment on Mr. Tanner's proposal. I've
[1:36:12] looked it through. What I am here to comment on is continue to treat the golf course
[1:36:19] as an evolving, improving part of the natural process that protects the thing that
[1:36:24] we're all here for the lake. And as citizens, I invite you to join us and we'll put
[1:36:29] your funds to good work on that project. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:36:38] Something else. I just
[1:36:44] have one comment, um, maybe my voice out, um. What about separating off the old 9?
[1:36:49] Leave that with the city and the new 18. Go there,
[1:36:57] whoever whoever wants to take care of it, to separate it so that the wholesome people
[1:37:00] have their city. I, I don't know, but I think that it'd be duplicating services,
[1:37:07] you know, somebody would be running the old 9 and somebody else would be running
[1:37:11] the 18 side. So, I mean, it's economically, it just makes more sense to have it all
[1:37:18] under 11 umbrella.
[1:37:23] OK? Do I have a motion to adjourn. So we'll 2 all favor. All right,
[1:37:32] thank you very much.