Good afternoon everyone and uh welcome to the community advisory committee. It's Tuesday,
August the 25th, and I'm calling the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m. Thank you for joining us.
Before we begin, I just want to uh provide a few friendly reminders. Assisted living
uh listening devices are available for anyone who may need one during tonight's meeting. Please see
the deputy clerk who can help you sign one out and get set up. And we please ask that the devices
be returned at the end of the meeting or before you leave so that they can be collected and made
available for future use. Please also note that the washrooms are located down the hall to the
left. And in the event of an emergency, residents are asked to exit in an orderly fashion using the
stairs located outside of council chambers. Should the staircase become unavailable, residents will
be asked to proceed down the fire escape located at the back of council chambers and if assistance
is available, please ask. Moving on to the second item, our land acknowledgement. The municipality
of Port Hope exists on the lands of the Mishagic Anishnabic traditional territory covered by the
Williams treaties. We honor and recognize first peoples as rights holders and stewards of the
lands and waters on which we have the privilege to live, work and play, including the Ganesca forest
and river. We pay respect to elders past, present, and emerging. We commit to actions towards truth
and reconciliation by recognizing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous
Peoples, strengthening ties with First Nations, Nate, and Inuit peoples, especially those who
make their home in Port Hope, and learning from indigenous ways of knowing and being. We do so by
recognizing the past and working towards a shared future. So, in terms of moving on uh for today's
agenda, I just have a few opening remarks. I want to welcome you to the first formal meeting of the
municipalities community advisory committee for the PHAI. Our purpose is to provide a structured
transparent forum for community concerns and perspectives to inform ongoing dialogue with
the organizations responsible for the project and oversight. We thank residents, property owners,
and community representatives for participating in this process. Your lived experience, questions,
and observations are important to ensuring that the impacts of this work are understood in
practical terms, in local terms. We recognize that many members of the community have already been
engaged in this project for many, many years, and we appreciate the time and the commitment involved
in continuing the engagement. The committee's role is to ensure that community concerns are clearly
identified, appropriately elevated, tracked, and reported back to the public. It does not replace
the responsibility or authorities of the ACL, CNL, CNC, council, or other project partners.
Nor can it direct regulatory or project decisions. Its value is in supporting a reliable process for
dialogue, accountability, and follow through. Although the partners have different mandates,
we are guided by common values. Protecting people in the environment, respecting the community,
being transparent about information and decisions, listening carefully to concerns, and working
towards practical evidence informed solutions. We share responsibility to be clear about the
commitments, timelines, accountabilities, and next steps. Tonight, our focus is on establishing
how we will work together, selecting a chair, setting a meeting schedule, considering mechanisms
for resident input, reviewing key issues and commitments arising from recent leaders meetings,
and we will aim for respectful fact-based solutionsoriented discussion with clear
follow-up where answers are not immediately available. I'm just going to ask the clerk if
there are any other notes that she would like to share at this point. Thank you very much,
Madame Mayor. Uh, you have outlined the purpose of tonight's meeting, so I want to thank you for
that. I do want to set a basis for procedure and remind members of council as well as members of
the public that this is a meeting of the community advisory committee. Although the CAC consists of
council members, this is not a meeting of council. As such, I want to remind everyone that tonight uh
with typically with what happens with an advisory committee is that it does not have the authority
to direct staff. The CAC can also not direct council. The CAC can make recommendations to
council which would need to be passed through our regular processes of reviewing the CAC minutes at
a council meeting should council determine another um another avenue for doing so. Okay. Now, I do
also want to note that we are coming to a close of this council's term. The final council meeting for
this council is on September 15th. I also want to uh remind everyone that the CAC can direct itself.
They it can also direct members of the CAC which are members of council and in order to forward
any actions as necessary. You will note actually on tonight's agenda that there are some motions
uh for CAC's consideration that include this language. I also want to remind that the CAC that
council has directed a review of the CAC terms of reference within 6 months that was passed in July.
I would also like to remind the CAC as well as members of the public to reiterate that
the dis discussion tonight should be centered around the mandate of the CAC which is related
to the collective issues of the municipality as a whole as well as projectwide effects and is not
centered around individual properties. For ease of reference, we have printed out copies of the
terms of reference of the CAC. They are available um near the front of the of council chambers. So,
thank you very much, Madame Mayor. Thank you. Um just before we move on then are there any uh
pecunary interests that anybody needs to disclose? Seeing none the we'll move on to the approval of
minutes as this is the first meeting of the CAC. There are no previous minutes to approve and there
are no delegations on the agenda this evening. We do have a number of pieces of correspondence.
6.1 John Carpenter regarding questions, concerns related to the PHAI as criteria change. Uh do
committee members have any questions or comments regarding this item of correspondence? Seeing
none, the recommended motion is to receive for information. So can I get a mover and seconder for
that? Moved by councelor Les, seconded by council Daryl. All in favor? And that is passed. Moving
on to 6.2, John Cipher regarding my property repair from CNL. Does anybody have any questions
or comments regarding this correspondence? Okay, seeing none, the recommended motion again is to
receive this for information. Can I get a mover in seconder for that? Moved by councelor Mink,
seconded by councelor Clare. All in favor? That is passed. Uh last item of correspondent 6.3 Richard
Lane regarding pharmacy public trees and river path destruction. Does anybody have any questions
or comments regarding this? Yes. Um councelor Le and then councelor CLA. Yes. Well, at the um the
meeting that was held last week, the open house at the library, one of the first questions that
was addressed um was uh is this true? Is there going to be destruction of these trees along
that path? Part of the path is owned by the municipality. So the municipality will have to
make a decision on that part based on whether it's a health and safety issue or there is no issue. So
the municipality will control that part of it. The other part it's private property. They'll
have to make that decision. it probably won't be any decisions made until the new council comes
into effect. And that came from CNL PHA. Thank you for that, Councelor Les. Councelor Clare,
I was wondering if it's in order during a CAC meeting to ask invite a member of staff to
comment on something. I know I've had some uh conversation already with Lauren Wingham Smith
about this that I thought was very helpful. So, if you wouldn't Yeah, thank you for that. Uh,
so just to clarify what it means for the municipality to consider remediation on its
own property. So we go through several different uh considerations um when we are determining
whether or not remediation will go forward on a property. It's not just the information that's
provided to us by CNL that there is remediation to occur. We do have discussions with them about the
extent and this area in particular. What residents were seeing out in the public uh space was part of
the process. We were asking for uh CNL to lay out what the full remediation would be because we were
considering special circumstance in this area and we wanted to determine how far we would be doing
the remediation and what would be impacted and then sort of move things back and see what the
different impacts would be. The goal for us is really to remove any contamination that might be
a future burden on us and on residents in the community. That would be for if we were doing
any work on the trail system itself. We don't have any expectations that we're going down
into the trails. So those types of considerations would be made that we would not be impacting down
towards the river. It would be more where there is infrastructure that exists for the municipality.
So hopefully that pre uh provides some clarity. Um councelor Claire was there anything further?
Okay. Uh thank you very much for that and thank you very much for the other uh information that
was brought forward. Does anybody have any other comments on this one? Okay, so we're going to move
with the motion to accept this for information again. Can I get a mover and seconder? Moved by
the deputy mayor, seconded by councelor Atridge. All in favor? And that is passed. Moving on to
item number seven, items for consideration 7.1 selection of the chair. going to ask the clerk to
introduce this item, please. Thank you very much, Madame Mayor. Uh, so there is a recommended motion
on the agenda tonight for your consideration. As the term of this council is coming to an end,
staff do recommend that the chair of the CAC be chosen from the incoming council. As such,
we've provided a motion for your consideration to uh direct the CAC to choose a chair uh at the at
the next at the next meeting. And of course it's it's subject to the CAC's uh ruling.
Okay. Um thank you for that. And uh how do folks around the table feel about that? Um
deputy mayor. Yeah, thank you. Um you know, so my original thought was that I figured that the
CAC should be chaired by either the mayor or the deputy mayor incoming of course. Um,
and to me with the uh with the deputy mayor role, we have talked about it in the past about buffing
up uh the potential for the deputy mayor role and I figured that would be another one very
similar to chairing the um the budget process as well. It just adds to that role. So that
was my thought on it. Um but also I do feel that the next council who's going to be dealing with
uh this they they should have that opportunity to make that decision themselves. Thank you.
Any other comments around the table? Councelor Clare? I actually I agree with the first part
of what you said uh councelor Adam around um adding this to the deputy mayor's uh docket
and of course I think per the clerk's advice uh we can't make that decision but if we felt that
that was appropriate we could certainly as a CIC make that recommendation to the next council. So,
circling back, um, deputy mayor, would you like to put, uh, can can the deputy mayor
put that motion for consideration as opposed to accepting the one that's in front of us?
I appreciate that. As long as the clerk has some wording there. We will give one moment,
please. And and while actually the uh the clerk is attending to that, I do want to note that
we have representatives from ACL and CNL today with us as observers in the audience um because
they're here to listen to what the community is going to be sharing. So I do want to note that
council make while we're waiting for this motion, can we make comments regarding the motion?
Absolutely. So, um my thoughts on that, I don't know if how many recall
um last beginning of this term, we had quite a long uh period before we decided the deputy
mayor process and who that person would be. And looking at if I scroll down on the agenda,
the first meeting is uh September, sorry, January 14th. So, just keep in mind that's assuming,
I guess, that we're going to choose the deputy mayor on our inaugural meeting potentially
um so that they could take the role to chair the meeting on January 14th. And if we give
that direction, whereas if we leave it open, we have options or the new council has options.
deputy mayor. Um just just to highlight that we haven't approved what the meeting schedule is yet,
but I do completely agree with you that we we don't know who's going to be in
the role at the time. So, thank you. I mean, the other the other possibility
is even if this does move on to the responsibility of the deputy mayor,
there's always the possibility that uh it's continued to be chaired by the mayor until a
deputy mayor is is chosen. So there might have to be a little bit of a transition.
Councelor Les. Yeah. The only um thought I have is that sometimes the deputy mayor is
chosen on a popularity contest point of view as opposed to is that person the most competent to
lead something of this magnitude. So I think we have to bear that in mind too
that we just don't automatically assume it's going to be a deputy mayor responsibility.
So I guess um circling back to the discussion um you know you you brought forward this motion and
councelor Clara you were also in favor of this direction. Is this is this something
that you're you're absolutely wedded to or are you open to leaving it as per
the clerk's recommendation for the next term of council to determine? Uh yeah,
I'm completely open. It doesn't we don't even know who's going to be at this table at that point. So,
I'm open with just leaving it and with the clerk's recommendation if that is what everybody wants.
I think it can though be reflected in the notes that there was a discussion about this potentially
being uh the role for the deputy mayor. Is that is that satisfactory to you? Okay. So then we will
we will proceed all that work for not um uh no that's okay. The recommended motion is listed on
the agenda and so can I get a mover and seconder to that? Moved by councelor Minkx, seconded by
uh councelor Atridge. All in favor? And that is passed. Okay. Uh moving on then to 7.2. Um and
this is just an overview of of something that has been talked about at this council table
which was the high level leadership meeting that occurred on July the 20th. And this is just a way
of grounding I think some of the conversation that may happen today. So, just as a reminder,
on Monday, July the 20th, um, presidents and CEOs and senior representatives from,
um, the Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, that's ACL, Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, CNC,
Canadian Nuclear Laboratory, CNL, and a number of representatives from provincial and federal
government stakeholders, including our local MPP, um, David Pacini. convened uh in a meeting where
the municipality emphasized that residents need clarity, accountability and confidence in how PHA
PH AI related matters are made. The municipality called for coordination among project partners,
clearly defined responsibilities, transparent communication, and measurable progress on
outstanding issues. And that discussion focused on four priority areas. The first cleanup criteria
and the focus was to finalize clear cleanup standards and provide durable assurances once
a property is deemed complete. The second was around contamination records and lender concerns
to address the barriers that contamination records may create for property owners and buyers.
The third key issue was compliance letters and homeowner asurances in order to clarify
the purpose, scope, and long-term reliability of compliance letters and other homeowner asurances.
And finally, municipality infrastructure impacts. And this is really speaking about the fact that
there has been long-term impact on infrastructure on the roadway systems and the fact that the
project has far exceeded its original timelines doubled in cost and yet that has not always been
reflected back in the return to the community. So these were the the points of discussion that were
raised at that meeting and at that meeting the commitment was that before the end of the year
that there would be clear response to all of these issues and as I understand it all of the
entities are working through these issues and working on a coordinated response to present to
the municipality. Um but I can also update that in terms of point number four which is around
uh what I would call the legacy funding owed to the municipality that that has elevated uh through
uh to the highest levels of the province and now to the federal government and I'm awaiting a
response on that uh or at least an update on that by the end of the week and hopefully we'll have
some more concrete news on legacy funding moving forward from the PHI project for the community. So
I wanted just to anchor some of the conversations that will happen there with reminding folks that
uh this is what what happened and that we are waiting for those further outcomes uh from that
uh discussion. So, I know we've discussed this at the at the table previously, but does anybody
have any uh questions about this uh before we move forward to the meeting this evening?
Councelor Les, you made a statement that clear response by end of year. Mhm.
Will that give the residents enough time to make a decision as to whether they want
to get their property cleaned or not cleaned? Because they could come together very closely
together and you'd run out of time. Well, I think therein lies the conundrum of the entire project.
um that in terms of the timelines I think that we put as much pressure on the situation at
that meeting as po as possible and I do know that it's the first time that all of the entities are
working together on a response and you know we can just keep the pressure on and uh that they're very
well aware of the timelines and the pressures on residents and so um the weekly check-ins
on this are are happening and I trust that we'll have responses in the earliest time possible and
they don't necessarily all have to come at the same time. So, we will keep tracking that and
keep reporting back on it. Councelor Claire, yeah, I have a question around continuity uh
and I guess and potential transition plans. Um, obviously, you know, we're all very conscious of
who who might be here when those responses come in. And I just wanted to confirm the CEO, you
were in that meeting along with the mayor. Yeah. Through your chair. Yes, I was. Yeah. Okay. Um,
and on the staff side, sort of outside of the CEO, where where does this file in terms of the
followup on these uh outcomes rest? Through your chair, through you, chair. um ultimately me as CEO
but uh with the new director Mike Por on board uh director of corporate initiatives working
with the environmental services staff there will all be in the loop on u the path forward
moving forward to to vet it to make sure it's the right path forward that we can advise CAC and we
can advise council making sure is the right path forward for the best interest of the community.
Okay, thank you. So um at this uh councelor Les Yeah. May I uh reference
uh some of the correspondence in my next question?
Okay. So, the crux of the matter is uh to me in Mr. Carpenters's letter uh point five,
what does council plan to put in place to protect residents from having their property insurance
canled or financial lenders deny mortgages? and number 11 much long and I'm not skipping over
the other ones because they're just as important but what are residents supposed to do if they are
unable to secure mortgages on their property. So this is the crux of the matter that we're dealing
with. Absolutely. And that was the crux of the conversation at that meeting as well. So that
was definitely raised and um we have to find a path forward quickly and responses quickly and I
think again we can we can note that particular point again with the information that's being
collected today. Councelor Atridge. Yeah. I guess where my concerns mostly come from is
uh financially for the residents that are are going to have their properties cleaned up. I know
a lot of the questions that come forward from residents are, you know, am I going to have to
take care of the bill? am I going to be, you know, out of pocket on this? And I know that we've had
some conversations about legacy funds and I am concerned about the continuity that moves forward
uh to make sure that those legacy funds, if they are under, uh under conversation,
move forward. Um is that something that you think that we'd be able to have in place before this
council is finished or or do you have any sense of timeline on that? because I feel of all of
the stuff that we're trying to land, we want to make sure that we are backstopping our residents
um before this council dissolves. Well, I think the good news is that the update I received
um this morning was that there would be some kind of followup on this point by the end of the week.
What shape or form that takes is yet to be uh determined. Um so as soon as that comes forward,
of course, it will be shared. Yes. Uh, and what format would that be shared? Well, that would
be up to the uh to the CEO and relevant staff and to the CEO. What format would that be shared? Uh,
I think it depends on the format that it actually comes to us because it might be a
confidential agreement. It might be a, you know, a note to council. Um, we don't know what that
would look like. if it comes with a sort of an agreement that needs to be in play with that. Um
I'm not too sure at this point in time. Um as whatever we can do to make it as public
and transparent as possible, that is the goal. It would be a huge win for this community and
we would want the community to know. So we will be as trans transparent as we're allowed to be.
Okay. So at this point um we are going to move on to the next point of conversation 7.3 the
overview discussion regarding mechanisms for residents to provide comments and concerns to
the CAC and I'm going to ask staff to introduce this item. Thank you through you chair. uh you
know as we we we are trying to put the agenda together. We're trying to figure out the best
the best approach for the agenda, what we want to include in this inaugural meeting. This is a
lot of information gathering at this meeting. Uh we wanted to make it sure that it was meaningful,
constructive and we were able to capture the comments of residents. Um as staff we
talked about this at length. What is the best model? So we wanted to do something innovative.
innovative in the sense it's innovative for you know typical for a council the proposal that we're
putting forward and I apologize for this is a a conception that came in last night and we've been
scrambling today to try and pull this together. Um we're trying to create a communitydriven wholesome
engagement conversation. There's a lot of residents here tonight. We want everyone's
voices to be heard. We want to make sure we capture it properly. We want to have wholesome
discussion on it and we want to create dialogue amongst community residents amongst themselves.
um something that's transparent, something that can have all voices heard. Um and not just those
that are afraid to walk up to and missing those that are afraid to walk up up to the podium. Um
and something that we can track, a living document that we can move forward with to build data and
have a a wholesome log of every cons concern and and issue that residents are facing. So what we're
proposing tonight is a is a breakout group model. Um, we're going to make if if council agrees,
our committee kaka agrees, we're uh going to make uh the residents work a little bit tonight. Um,
we are proposing breakout groups, small groups of maybe four or five, six or seven people each.
Looks like there's about 30 people here. Um, they they will break out into sessions. We have
um uh post-it note boards, uh, flip charts where the groups can break out and have conversations
amongst themselves. And we have proposed two questions that need to we would like to address.
Uh first of all, what needs to be addressed that was not captured in that meeting of high
level senior officials? What do they think was not missed that could be addressed going forward? And
what are some suggested mechanisms that the public that would like to see to communicate to the CAC?
What is that mechanism? What is that tool that we can do? This breakout model group is one mechanism
uh that we would like to pilot tonight. Um, so it's a huge opportunity for us to because
they will all be logged. All these issues will be tracked. Staff can take them away, compile them,
sort them um, by topic or whatever. Um, I think it's a great way of tracking it. It will be a
living document. We will be posting it. We can post it on the website so it's available
to everyone. Um, and and most importantly, it's for data and making sure we're tracking all these
all these issues and concerns and making sure they're being addressed going forward. So um
the suggestion is as well that each group breakout group assign a spoke spokesperson write down the
questions and summarize those and come back to count come back to the CAC after 20 or 30 minutes
of deliberation and present the top two or three priorities. The rest won't be forgotten. they will
be tracked but so that we can have a discussion here and have council weigh or sorry I'm calling
you council but you're kac um you know have that discussion because we really think it's important
we're trying to make this a communitydriven initiative approach so um council is more
than happy to rotate through the groups and listen participate as you wish in various groups
um it we call it an innovative model because it is sort of innovative for a sort of a council
committee type group we do this in in in regular sessions And with staff, we do this quite a bit.
It's very effective. Everyone's voice gets heard, especially to those are fearful of walking up to
the podium. So, I put it to the CAC if there's we are prepared from a staffing perspective. We have
all the tools and ready to go. Um, if anyone's uh any objections to this approach tonight,
I have a question. um you you outlined two questions that you would like to put to the to
the public that they could talk about during this breakout and I would suggest that we don't direct
that that really it's just open-ended for for that group discussion to generate whatever issues
or concerns are on their minds. Um not not to be prescriptive about that and and fair enough. uh it
was to try and focus you the conversation a bit um to raise it. Um we are really interested to hear
the community's feedback on different mechanisms too as well if that could be considered broader
issues that do they feel haven't been addressed and then if there is some pro uh other mechanism
for communication back to the CAC. So um I leave it to CAC if anyone has had any objections we can
break out into sessions. We could probably do three breakout groups here one in the hallway
um if that's the CAC's wish to move forward. Councelor Les. Yeah. But then and agree with
you. Um but one thing that the audience should understand is that CAC is advisory. It is not
council. And the reason for that is we have a mandate as the advisory committee that we can
bring on residents and external experts. So that's why we can't act as council on CAC. Okay? Because
it'll be a compendium of not only us but you and maybe outside uh interests and again they're not
council. So they would appeal to council if that makes sense. Council Claire. Um thank you. Um I'm
always a fan of conversation circles so happy to participate in that. Uh I am just going to comment
I don't see a huge amount of enthusiasm in the audience but I think we're not uh this is maybe
unexpected uh in terms of a format but I will also say I think I'll speak for myself but I think I
speak for others who are here as well that I think I will leave disappointed today if all we do is
capture more information because I think we've been hearing from community through other forums
and other formats a lot and I'd really like uh not to move on from this agenda item without having a
conversation about how we might want to take some action with recommendations as the CAC while we're
still at this table to to yeah sorry through each that that is exactly what we would hope when we
come when the each breakup group comes back with their high level uh issues uh then it's it's CAC's
opportunity to discuss you know possible solutions moving forward things that we need to send to
other agencies questions to other agencies that is the the spur of the conversations, starting of the
conversation. That's exactly what we envisioned. And I I and I I do agree um councelor Clare that
there's been a lot of discussion and information gathering and that was really at the heart of
the meeting that was had earlier this year, but there's always new information that comes
forward. We want to make sure obviously that we don't miss out on hearing something that needs
to be heard. But of course, listening without action is like the sound of one hand clapping.
So I think that uh that's another very good point. Any other thoughts or comments, deputy mayor? Oh,
okay. Okay. To back to the CEO. So just just one reminder. I think the the clerk said said
this as well. This is not property specific. This is not the the purpose of CAC to go into property
specific. Those will be taken online separately. This is the broader issues of the PHAI cleanup.
So at this point then um are you going to is staff going to lead us through how this
is going to to be organized? Sure. We can we can go number everyone 1 2 3 4 5 or or
you can self-break up into groups. I would I would suggest one over here, one at the back,
one on the side and in the hallway. We have all the uh markers and um flip charts available
and we can help facilitate making sure that a spokesperson um is created for each group and
we're suggesting 20 minutes to 30 minutes. Council or CAC uh any suggested time frame that you think
would be for a wholesome discussion? Okay. Um 20 20. Okay. if and we can extend that if we feel
there's a lot of dialogue going on if that's okay with the chair and and just to be clear so that
that um I understand it and everybody understands it that after the discussion happens amongst the
group so there'll be somebody from each group that's reporting back directly to council on
the issues sorry to the CAC on on the issues and everything is going to be captured that's
presented as well as whatever is written on the boards and created a document that then
will be tracked. Correct. On all the issues. Exactly. A living document to carry forward
making sure we're capturing everything. Thanks for summarizing it. Okay, we'll turn it over to staff.
So for for those of us who are joining us online, we will be going into recess for about the next
20 to 25 minutes as we we uh complete this exercise and then following that uh we will
reconvene as as the CAC to outline some of the the issues that were discussed. Thank you.
Okay, I guess we we'll get started. Uh we'll start off with group I numbered the groups. So,
we're going to start off with group number one over here on this side of the uh of the floor. If
you could be concise and uh hopefully uh you know prioritize your top two or three items. As I said,
the other items will not be lost. They will be tracked and logged. Uh if you have a general
theme, bring that bring that theme forward and the CAC can decide if they want to deliver it after
each group or wait till all the groups are done. Um thank you for that. Uh just one point is that
there were some really great handwriting things happening but uh just in case if each group can
also put the name and uh contact information of who took the notes just in case there's something
that isn't perfectly legible. Thank you chair. That's a great suggestion. Uh and just putting
number one on your or your group number one two three four on top. That will help us as well.
Group number one. Yeah, we we can get it afterwards. We can get it afterwards. We can
get it afterwards. Hello. Okay. Um, so our first question is is will residents have the opportunity
to actually sit on the CAC and be actual participants of this community advisory committee?
Um, we have concerns fundamental structure of the CAC, lack of community involvement,
uh, direct and lack of community involvement, lack of transparency,
and what is the relationship between the community, MPH staff, CNL, PHAI, and the CAC. Uh,
we have rec concerns regarding the tree bylaw. Current bylaw has not protected any trees.
advocate for health monitoring of residents, renumeration for residents from beginning
uh to completion, legal help and advocacy, misinformation on health risks, and we've
only scratched the surface. There's still many more things, but this is kind of just what we
could come up with within the 20 minutes. Um also um it recommendation of staff make reports
uh on MH property to then bring to council for approval. Um and
that is it. Thank you very much. And of course all that's going to be taken away and given over
to the clerk. Okay. And did you wanted contact information on this as well? Just in case there
was something that wasn't legible. We don't want to miss anything that you had talked about or
summarized. So through your chair, I know if you would like to wait till the end at the, you know,
to have conversations or would you like to do it group by group? That's up to the CAC. Um,
looking around any preferences to waiting until the end. I I would suggest waiting till the end
because I suspect there's probably a similar theme across them and not have this the same
discussion over. Okay, group number two at the back there. Lots of handwriting going on there.
Hello. Thank you. Um we have a number of things, but we asterisk those that
are most important to us. I'm going to have to kind of do a strange twisty thing. So,
please please forgive me for not looking at Can we bring those forward for you to help you? Can we
um Well, no. Okay. Um one thing was residents on the CAC. Okay. So, that's very very important.
Um, another is reporting um, the CAC reporting back to residents um,
in a timely fashion and detail as opposed to a a general say listing of the minutes and so on. So,
what has the CAC talked about? What decisions have been made? How will that impact the residents?
Um, another one that I think we all agreed that we could uh use was an independent audit of
the process by the auditor general. So, there's $2.6 billion dollar that is at least half spent,
probably more. Um, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I'm really surprised that there hasn't
been we are surprised that there hasn't been some kind of independent audit of the process because
that is a good chunk of our money. Um don't have the CAC and cancel chambers. This is too formal
for the kinds of conversations that we are going to have to have. Um, and we love all of the staff,
but all of the staff probably don't have to participate in future meetings because
I think it should be handled a bit more like the other advisory meetings. And I and we get that
this was the the first time and so on and so forth and uh required the the formality. Um,
the CAC will need experts, real estate, mortgage, legal that they can consult
with that are probably external to Port Hope, not having been through the process myself,
but I understand that it's pretty darn difficult to get independent legal representation.
ation import hope. Similarly, the CAC we feel should ensure that residents
have access to the experts they need to get through the process.
Oh, okay. Communication between CNL, Bird and all other subcontractors seems to be lacking and
that may be one of the issues that uh result in timeline miscommunication, lack of communication.
Thank you. Excellent. um appreciate all those uh points of feedback and uh innovation.
Hello. Uh first I want to start with uh this was kind of fun. I really enjoyed meeting everybody
and like it's good to see everybody work together. I'm going to skip the ones that were double taken
here. Uh CNN my property online for you can go and check. Uh we wanted to make sure that homes that
didn't have remediation but still had problems were on there. Uh because we'd like to see a
timeline uh like a countdown. Everybody in town would would be a lot happier to see 33 43 23 and
then when we get to the 10 and this will be over. I think that brings positivity to our community in
a in a a new way for us to all look at it. Right. Hay season's in the fall. It comes to an end.
We all get excited for that. Um, communication. If people do have issues, a lot of people work
six days a week these days, 12 hours a day. Uh, so they can get all this without showing
up. There's got to be somewhere where they can pump this in. And if they do need to come in,
well, it's better to do it once than four or five times if they have to miss things. Uh, and the
rest of these fine folks already have. Thank you. Thank you for that and um thank you uh for the
feedback because we don't often hear the word fun in council chambers. So when you can be productive
and actually meet your neighbors and enjoy the process of that, that's that's positive. Okay,
I'm dry and dull compared to that, but our group wasn't. Um I think it's just important
to reiterate the consistent Oh, sorry. up. Sorry, I'm not loud enough. Um, so I think it's important
to just reiterate uh some of the consistencies that came up. The first and foremost one was
the structure of the CAC being uh initially now structured as the council only and not
having non-elected uh representation in that is uh of major concern and ultimately a foundational
problem. Um and the representation and consist and the composition of that should include a
broad base of expertise and experience and a lot more members of the community because it obviously
affects more of us than are than are just in this room. Um did I capture structure? All right. Next.
um necessary of participation of the government and the decision makers in the process so that we
actually have direct and immediate access to the information that we're talking about and we're
not just pulling from hearsay or information that we don't actually have access to but the
CAC is charged with making decisions on and rep and recommendations on that are then brought to
council and the municipal staff so that high level participation is needed even at the CAC level. Um
there's pros and cons voiced on that whether a resident like a resident actually wants to make
honest and open opinions when their elected uh official is right in front of them or not.
Um the it the other one is actually that CAC does have a su successful way of engaging with
more members of the community. We just had an example of someone having fun at this. So
there's ways of actually stimulating and doing that and not necessarily in this venue as well.
um that the ultimately whatever however the CAC is constituted that its actions result
ends up with results in a timely manner and we talked about the timelines for meetings which
did not seem realistic in terms of the amount of information uh and the ability to contribute
effectively to make recommendations to the CIC and have actually anything happen in a timely manner.
um relative to um the overall project timeline. Did I get time? Okay. Okay. Um the that relates
then to the information access. So how do we get that from PHAI and CNL as particip as participants
in the process? There's bucket loads of information out there. How do we get it and know
what we're going to be contributing to as part of the discussions? A lot of the question tonight is
um tell us what you want to what you want to talk about, what you want to hear. Um but actually
there's been a lot of communications on that already. It would be useful for the municipality
to actually um bring that information aggregate all together. So as participants we can actually
review that and instead of repeating things we can actually take a process more direct.
um
process uh CAC um an actionable would be the CAC actually rep uh speaking to council to say uh
establish both a funding model um and a structure by which the residents can actually have direct
and immediate access to the expertise of uh legal, financial, engineering um arborists, anything that
as a resident receives a report, they're actually have a resource, professional resource that they
can speak with that isn't necessarily reliant just on the information that is being delivered
by PHAI to the resident themselves. That includes financial assistance to make all those things
happen because that uh financial responsibility is real. So there needs to be that funding model. uh
and overall this project is starting now in 2026 when the whole system started in beyond 1980 and
the 2001. Um so the CAC has to be uh um definitive in where they can take action and actually have
uh an impact with the project overall. Any other comments? We seem good. Thank you. Thank you for
that. And uh just on the third last point, uh Mark, I think the CEO may want to comment
because I know it's something that you touched on earlier today, but maybe it's worth repeating how
this information is going to be compiled and used. Yeah, thank you, Chair. That's that's a good point
because I wanted to reiterate that. Uh thanks for the opportunity. The the this is the reason we
wanted the written document. So now we can create the living document. The broader summation of all
of this staff will transpose this into some sort of you know digital format. Um you know try and
categorize it based on theme so it's always been captured. It will be there. It'll be available.
It'll be publicly available on the website. Uh so that we can refer back to it every time. So Mark,
as you said, you don't have to keep repeating the same thing over and over and over again.
It's going to be captured. So that's the intent and that it gives us a big really good baseline
for data capture and really understanding what we've accomplished, what the CAC has accomplished,
what we still need to work at, who needs to be involved, who are the stakeholders that need to
be engaged. So that's the intent of that. We are we will be creating that. And I'm just going to
follow up and say uh when can residents expect to see the summation of the notes from today's
meeting? I think it's a function of how well we read their handwriting. Um, but we will I I would
say it's going to be a couple weeks we will go back and look at the transcript of this of this
meeting as well to make sure we I think there was might have been some additional comments added
so we don't want to miss those as well. Um, so I would I would suggest a couple weeks. I'm looking
at the clerk too and staff. Couple of weeks. Yeah. Council Claire. Okay. So that takes me to back to
a procedural question just in terms of where we go next in terms of our discussion. So, we're
sort of this is new and it's sitting somewhere in between our procedural bylaw that governs how
we do things as council and the committee bylaw which governs how advisory committees work. So,
we've passed the we've passed the deadline for our normal normal procedures as member
of council to get things on the agenda for our last council cycle being notice of motion. So,
if we were to pass a resolution as a CAC making a recommendation to council,
would we then be following the committee bylaw in which case it would become a memo that could be
added to the agenda for our September cycle? Uh, my recommendation uh, councelor Holloway
Woodwani would be for you to lift the minutes of this meeting from the September 15th agenda which
was which is when it was going to be provided for council's uh, review and receive for information.
And at that time a council member would have the option to make motions based on on what was noted
in the minutes that those minutes would be would be like like other advisory committee minutes more
uh involved. You know t typically uh advisory committee minutes are considered working minutes.
So they do have a bit more detail and I think that that is also the desire of many of the community
members here to have more detail in those minutes and we will we will certainly endeavor to to meet
that uh meet that goal. And then at that time you could uh you could move forward with that. And
the other thing I do want to again remind you uh council is that you know there is that you
are absolutely right. This is a situation where the CAC is between the committee bylaw and also
um you know and also council right council because so so one of the things that council
has done has has asked to review the CAC uh terms of reference within 6 months and even
as we've been working through it you know we've we've identified opportunities and things that
we could be looking at as part of that review this would certainly be something that we'd be
we'd be looking at and bringing back to council for their consideration as well. But I hope that
I've answered your first question in that. Just as a followup because usually our minutes are not
added to the agenda that quickly. So usually like if it was a committee meeting, they would first
come back to the committee for approval before being on the agenda. But if you're saying that
these minutes will be on the agenda for September. Yes. And I guess the only question I have sort of
for our council for other council members is then that would mean any decisions that we make would
be made on the spot at council. There wouldn't be that same dual meeting consideration with further
opportunity for community to engage with us uh between committee of the whole and council. Okay.
So in terms of process then just to follow up on that if uh we have this conversation at the
council table that after seeing the the minutes um that there are some urgent issues that need to be
brought forward um that might be an opportunity for us to talk about ahead of time suspending
the rules for consideration of certain action items that are a priority and the fact that
we're having this conversation here today I think um allows that preparation and that reflection.
Okay. Um, thank you to everybody who uh participated and um I like the idea of these
things not happening in town hall and finding alternative places for more of these conversations
uh to happen. Did you have something else, councelor Claire, or is that just I had understood
that we were going to have a discussion at this table about what we've heard at this point in the
meeting? Yeah. No, absolutely. Um, I did want to I did want to ask whether or not as part of the
discussion that we should also be uh including because it seems like that came up in some of
the discussions I heard, the meeting schedule and whether or not that needs to be altered. and
um whether it people might think that this is just too sparse of a meeting schedule based on
the conversation. So can we can we include that in the conversations and reflections we're having at
the table to the clerk? Uh madame mayor that that is that is your discretion if that is a
discussion that you do want to have uh during item 7.3. 7.4 does specifically look at the
schedule and consideration of the schedule. So my recommendation would be that might be a more
appropriate uh time to have that discussion. We have provided a recommended motion uh for
council's for CAC's consideration. It is the prerogative of CAC to change that meeting schedule
and uh and I'm just bringing it up because it is the next item, but it did come up in some of the
conversations. So the fact that we can talk about it uh holistically, I think is a good idea. Okay,
let's uh turn it over to everyone for comments and reflections. Councelor Daryl. Um yeah,
after listening to everyone and um I had the I said from the start, I think that you can't have
a community advisory committee without community. So I think that should be the next step. Um and
um it jumps out to me is is we're going to talk about the meeting schedule. I think
that quarterly meetings doesn't inspire a lot of competence from the community. So I think
at the minimum it should be bimonthly or monthly would be would be my recommendation. Thank you,
Councelor Gerald. Um I'm just going to go around. Deputy mayor.
Thank you. Yeah. So um very similar to what councelor Toms was just saying is that I agree and
I thought this before too. That's why it suggested maybe even if we have a subcommittee that was
basically made up of all residents to make sure that residents are getting their voice in on that.
So, I think we do need to discuss this a little bit more about will residents be able to sit on
the CAC or some way get more involved into it. Um, I completely agree that the uh the schedule
quarterly won't be enough. Let's be honest. Uh I think we've all kind of heard that from
uh the community already and well I'd like to hear what the rest of the committee thinks but
I think that we should bring it down probably monthly at least for the start and then if uh
if we progress and we don't have as much coming up on those agendas we have the opportunity to change
it up to being every other month maybe quarterly eventually as the project changes but at least at
the start I think we need our monthly. That's good for now. Thank you councelor Mink. Thank you. So,
thank you for all the comments. I think that that they were fantastic and it's definitely
um sort of what I've been hearing as well just in general from the public. I agree um about the
the meetings. Um I think in order for this to have momentum and to keep going, we need to have those
discussions and council needs to have those that information brought back on a regular basis. So,
I think monthly is absolutely um important. And I guess a question that I would have as all our
committees, it is also at the discretion of the chair of the committee. So if they found
out that you know there was no reason to have a meeting one particular month that that that
would be their discretion. Um I I do think uh having the community participate I think this
causes confusion when council is up here and the community has to be reminded that this isn't a
council meeting and that we can't talk about certain things right now. We have to wait for
another week to talk about what we've sort of talked about. I think that's very confusing and
I think having a the community on this committee where they can actually discuss openly will will
become much more um open dialogue than what we may have here. Um I also think when it comes
time for us to decide the time of the meetings I think saying 5:00 in the council chambers is
something that uh should be established once the committee itself is selected if we're deciding
that we're going to go with the community. five o'clock um leaves a lot of people out who work
um but we don't know who's going to participate at this time if we decide to go beyond ourselves.
So I think at this point we just leave that open. Thank you councelor man. I'm going to go to that
end and make my way counselor le without repeating everybody's uh thoughts. Uh, I think we're going
to need some money to um work with as we bring on uh outside help to the CEO. Uh, thank you.
I did I did want to make a comment. I heard from councelor Toms and and and deputy mayor. Um, there
is budget considerations that need to like this is extra staff time now. Monthly meetings are fairly
aggressive on top of all the council meetings. Um, that would be a negotiation with ACCL. there is a
legal agreement that there is some funding for CAC through the ACL original agreement um the we need
to have those conversations and negotiations with ACL. So just be mindful the more meetings more
staff time more budget costs but we need to figure out how to uh to land that. I think counselor mink
and my shoulder saying can I ask a question on this point? So councelor mink go ahead. Thank you.
In the legal agreement is there a required number of staff like I'm seeing a lot of staff around the
table here in this room today. Does all staff have to be there or? No. So through through through
you, chair. No, this is the inaugural meeting. I asked most of my senior leadership team to be here
to hear this. It's such an important project for this municipality that I wanted to be here at the
inaugural meeting. No, it would not be this many. And I'm sure they're thanking me behind me, but uh
I really wanted them to be here to listen to what council had to say, hear what the residents say
to get the overarching, you know, sentiment that was coming out of this meeting. So no, it won't be
all staff included going forward. Uh I did hear one comment as well um about not doing it's too
formal in council chambers. Unfortunately, we're system driven. We need to use the AV systems. We
have external participants. ACL is online. Uh so I'm not sure that we have another venue that could
accommodate that. So that's too bad. Um councelor Atridge. Right. Thank you. Um I really valued the
the conversations and and going through. So thank you to everyone who participated in that. Um,
I I agree with the the sentiment. I I this needs to be a resident uh driven uh communitydriven
council. We shouldn't be doing it. All of our advisory committees like we may have a a council
member sit in on it. We'll have a staff member sitting in on it, but it has to be primarily
residents who are there. Um I really like the ideas of having experts on it. We do this again,
we do this often on other committees, certainly in planning. We have expert planners who are there
uh to advise people. So, uh, I love the idea that we can have, uh, a budget to this so that
we could have legal advice there. We can have real estate advice there. The arborist, someone
mentioned the arborist. I thought that was really clever. But, you know, the the residents will need
to have some expertise that they can tap into. Um, and so I think that's really valuable. Uh,
the other thing that I heard which I want to make sure we're capturing is around that communication.
So, we will need to have some sort of flow of communication between CNL, Bird, CAC, staff,
council. how does this all flow so that the advice of this count of this committee makes its way to
council for consideration just like any of our other advisory committee. So I was really happy to
see or hear I guess uh that come forward. Um, and the other one that, um, caught my ear was around,
you know, uh, what's the holistic, you know, all the homes should be on there, so I should be able
to go on and punch my address in and it comes up as NA cuz mine's clean, right? Or or something
along that line so that we have a we have a wholesome picture of that. Um, so anyways, some
really great ideas and I'm glad that we capture those. I'm sure there's a lot more in there. Uh,
I look forward to seeing it all come forward, but uh, this was a really great start. So, thank you,
Councelor Claire. Uh, thank you. Yeah, I just want I want to echo something that you said about the
experts uh at the table on the CAC. That is how we structure our terms of reference for
other advisory committees where we list specific skills and experience that are relevant. And I
think that's a great idea. But I do think that that is distinct from what I think residents are
also asking for, which is access to experts who can advise them on their personal properties. and
no volunteer member from this community sitting on an advisory is going to provide professional
advice in that capacity. So, I think we're talking about two different distinct bodies. Um,
and I think we've heard that ask not only tonight, but we've heard that one consistently from this
podium. I've heard it consistently in backyards and kitchen tables for years that people feel
like they're not equipped uh and they don't have support to understand the contracts they're being
asked to sign to review the reports that they're they're being given. And I did I've I know I've
pointed it out before in conversation that as the municipality, we gave oursel that gift. We had a
third party review panel that provided that review and assurance to us to help us in making decisions
about our properties. And I think that's something that I'm I've got a resolution prepared for
tonight. I think we should recommend to council that council consider directing staff to begin
negotiations on establishing that. Thank you, councelor Claire. Uh and uh just I think everybody
has has really captured uh a lot of the the ideas that I definitely heard around the table. I think
the one other uh in the sorry in the group discussions the one thing that I did hear that
we we haven't talked about at the table is the need to have access um not just to those experts
that can have with help with legal opinions but actually having those representatives from the
bodies that are actually the decision makers on some of these files come directly and interface
with the CAC on a regular basis so that members of the CAC understand where the decision-m points are
and where the decision makers lie on many of these issues because you know come back to the fact that
uh we can listen as a council but many of these decisions many of these pain points lie with
bodies that are outside of this municipality and I think having that direct interface with the
CAC with those representatives of those bodies that are involved in this project would be very
important in terms of the process as well. So I think there are there are um I've I've heard
that there's structural issues with with the CAC as it stands. There's timelines that need to be
um changed and appreciating the the budget considerations for this. But given the priority
that this project is for the community, I think we've talked about the composition of the CAC
uh not just residents but also having the right competencies like you would have in
any other committee or arguably board so that that technical expertise is is there is is very
important. And then just um the action piece, you know, going back, it's great that this document
is going to be put together, but can it be set up in a way where it's like a data tracking system
like we have put forward for council motions where we can actually see progress over time,
roles and responsibilities, who's responsible for each of these so that there is that transparency
and accountability. Any other thoughts or comments from around the table? Okay, councelor uh clear.
Yeah, I'll I do have that resolution, but I will also just say for your uh information,
mayor, and and everyone else, uh following your high level meeting, I can report that we did get
a offer from uh the ministry of environment to come and speak with the environmental advisory
committee about the PHAI. So, that's a a good tangible result that did uh come forward. And
actually, thank you for reminding me because we also have the CNC for the first time coming
to council to delegate after that meeting. Um, so the the resolution that I brought uh I would
like to bring forward for our consideration is that the CAC recommend that council consider
directing staff to initiate discussions with AECL, CN and CNL regarding the establishment
of an independent panel of qualified experts to assist property owners in understanding documents
and agreements related to their properties under the PHAI. and that staff report. I guess that part
could be left for council to add and that the CAC recommends that council ask staff to report
back on those discussions including proposed scope, governance, independence and funding.
I'm looking at the clerk for how do you word the yeah as you're providing the word wording on this
um I do have a question just based on timelines process in in budgets and whether or not um the
the panel of experts uh would you be comfortable in starting with actually having external legal
um as as the starting place and then moving moving on with others as the budget gets negotiated for
those other experts because at least in my as I was circulating around the issue of getting
independent legal good independent legal advice in a timely fashion seems to be one of the key
priorities. Yep. Sure. Are you offering a friendly amendment or Okay. Uh yes. It's more of um it's
not a friendly amendment to the to the overall vision. It's just talking about the stepping
stones starting with the most urgent matter. And uh to the clerk, I'm happy to do that. We don't
need an actual amendment because we haven't moved and seconded it yet. Could we just add
at the end of that first clause be starting with legal advice or a legal adviser? Yeah.
Yeah.
So, councelor Holloway Wadwani. So, so what is um is there so what was the amendment? Sorry.
What was a change you wanted to to have here? Uh, per the mayor's recommendation,
if we agree that legal advice is the most pressing, then could we just add like a
after Port Hope Area Initiative, prioritizing legal legal advisor or something to that effect?
Can we just make sure it says prioritizing independent external legal advice? Sure.
and not paid for by us.
And obviously it goes without saying that we want
to make sure that that external legal advice has the appropriate expertise.
Okay. So, we um
councelor Claire is is moving and um I see the deputy mayor as um seconding. Any further
discussion on this? Okay. All in favor? and that's passed. Okay. Um, moving on to the establishment
of the the meeting schedule. Um, I'm also uh wanting somebody to put an alternative motion
forward based on the discussion we had. And so I heard first from councelor Daryl that he
was wanting um some monthly meetings and just because the order the deputy mayor was also
in favor of that. So would you like to put an alternative motion for it? Sure, I would. Yeah,
it's like hopefully Shushma can word that. I don't have I don't have anything prepared. Sorry.
Uh is it is it council's intention to set the meeting schedule including specific
dates tonight or would you like to just uh set a schedule for having monthly meetings perhaps
uh noting the first meeting of the new CAC being a certain date and then at
that meeting the clerk can bring forward the full meeting schedule noting the fact
that it would be monthly meetings. That may be I think the easiest way to do it. Yeah.
So, as as the mover and seconder are talking about it, I think January, in my opinion,
is way too late. Um, just something to put to you, but you guys are moving in seconding. So,
sorry, Councelor Claire. Yeah. Um, I'm the I'm sorry, the clerk's trying to type,
but I'm also going to ask you a question. Um, procedurally,
right, this is not a body that directs staff or directs money or anything like that. So there is
no restriction on us continuing to meet as a CAC through to October. Is that correct?
Presumably as an advisory committee the other advisory committees are
meeting in September and October. Um could we also meet and provide
recommendations to the next council? Um but that way we don't skip a beat.
the challenge. There's a couple of things I think to consider. One is that currently
from an administrative perspective, it is the clerk's office that supports the CAC.
The clerk's office is going to be extremely busy administrating the municipal election. That will
be my my team's first priority. So, we will not be available between uh September after September
15th up to October 26 to help support any sort of meetings taking place. So that's the first
piece. Typically what we do with our advisory committees also is we do recommend that they do
not meet during this time. However, given the fact that they are not supported by the clerk's office,
they are able to do so just because they do have that external support.
At this point, the clerk's office will not be able to support uh it is the it is the
will of the CAC if they choose to meet, but unfortunately we will not be able to support
you from an administrative perspective and that could result in some problems I think
in terms of meeting times and dates. Yeah. Yeah. And AD systems etc. Yeah.
So I guess the question then in terms of process moving forward because we we've heard very clearly
around the table today that there needs to be a different composition for the CAC. So, you know, I
I wonder, you know, the merits of continuing to me as this body as opposed to trying to move forward
with trying to put some terms of reference, you know, out if that's the will of council to get
an alternative um structure and process moving forward as quickly as possible. Council Claire.
Yeah, I I appreciate all that. I think where I'm coming from, just so you you you can appreciate
my comment, is, you know, some of us have been working on this and and many people at this table,
I think, have been working on this for 4 years since we've been at this table. We've been in
people's homes. We've been in their backyards. We've been listening and we've been waiting and
waiting for this moment to come. And it just seems like it's a lot for not uh for the residents who
have taken the time to speak with their council. um if we don't have an opportunity to advance that
work as much as we can while we're still here. Um it depending on who's at the table, it could
be starting over uh for a lot of those residents. So I I'm trying to balance that. I appreciate its
time crunch and it's campaign season, election, and all that. But at the same time, I don't want
to lose that knowledge and that opportunity to to make right by what we've been hearing. Okay. So,
uh, I'm I'm going to circle back to the end of the table to see what what, um, where we're going with
with the mover and seconder on this issue. Um, I'm comfortable with going with January for the fact
of everything the clerk has stated. I think trying to have one in December, the three or four weeks,
I don't think makes that big of an impact. So, I'd be comfortable with setting the first meeting.
I think it's January 14th, and then a monthly schedule following following that meeting. So,
that that brings me back to I think concerns where that's a real gap in in time. And so, uh
I I think that's way too long to wait for whatever is going to happen in in January. So going back to
to the clerk and to the CEO, how can we ensure that there is a process where this momentum and
these issues are not sitting for another number of months? So through you chair, you know, just
conferring with the clerk here, uh yes, the the legal and legislative services will be busy with
the election up till the 26th. Inauguration is on November 17th. there is a very small window where
this is council is still this council in play. Uh we could it'll be a function of you know trying
to pull that together from a staff perspective. Clerks will have a little bit more time to support
the administration of the meeting. Uh staff would have to try to pull together agendas and you know
you know get it all together essentially right we're going to get the tracking list done but what
does that agenda look like? uh hopefully would have more wholesome information to bring back on
discussions with the different governing bodies. Um can I just ask a procedural question? Could we
do a CAC meeting on September 15th as the same just like a before our council meeting or after
our council meeting just continuing on with who's here as we move through a potential transition
to a different governance structure. My only hesitation would be what new information is going
to transpire in the next two weeks. Like other than maybe an update from something I I'm not too
sure what how much use of good time that would be. That'd be my only hesitation. And that wouldn't be
an opportunity to review the report that has come out of this meeting and some of the the items.
It would be on the council, but I'm just saying that it might be an opportunity to have a more
wholesome discussion. I'm I am responding to your need to keep moving forward with the momentum and
with the process. Council Clair, I like where the CIO is going on that I know it's kind not
grudgingly, but I know it would be tricky, but there is that window where we're no longer the
election is done. We are still the sitting council. we wouldn't be making any decisions,
right? We would just be making recommendations for the incoming council's consideration in
their first council cycle. I I like that if it's feasible for an early November,
like a November before between election and inauguration. That is that is a window. Um I
would like though if that's the way that we're going is that for the council member u meeting
in September that we do have a very wholesome discussion about the report and potential next
steps that can keep things going. Yes. Back to the CA. I I think that you know the commitment
is to turn that tracker and have it ready. I mean mindful it's we we also try and post that a week
before the agenda or you know the Thursday before the Tuesday meeting. Uh if you will give us some
grace we may not have it on the Thursday. It may not come out till the Friday or the Monday. Well
I we'll have to confer with staff. I'm just speaking on behalf of at this point in time.
Um and at that point in time as the clerk said you could pull the minutes and have that conversation
at that point in time. Okay. So going back to the motion that we have in front of us around um
around the meetings um how do we want to proceed forward with the mover and seconder on this?
Okay we go then with the date in November and then a monthly meeting schedule to start in 27.
That's a very succinct and good summary.
Okay, we're going to have a look at the the motion up and uh just
turning it over to the mover in seconder. Uh are you comfortable with the wording?
Okay, that looks good. And we will continue having conversations though before that. Um,
so we have a mover and seconder. All in favor? And that is passed.
Okay, moving on to the the last item in in front of us today and that's the public comment and
um question period. Any questions and comments from committee members before we move on to
getting any final questions or comments from the public? We'll turn it over to the public.
Hi Sarah Skullp. Through your whole discussion, there was no discussion about when and how to have
community members on this committee. So, you're going forward and trying to put together monthly
schedules, but when is the conversation going to come about about how you engage and attract
community members to be on this committee? You may choose not to, but I think that was the loudest
voice you heard tonight was that there should be community members, and you've not discussed that
once. I think that um maybe it was implicitly understood that everything that was coming back
from the conversation is going to go into that document with a tracker and that at that September
15th meeting we are all prepared to suspend the rules in order to put forward recommendations and
given that you're absolutely right about this point. I have no doubt that that's
going to be coming forward at the September 15th meeting to allow for enough time for when those
meetings start in January to have the right composition. Okay. So my other comment is I
hope that happens and I hope that if according to the CEO these meetings have to happen here.
I hope that you will uh encourage roundtable discussions not in those chairs but out here and
I hope that other members of the public can take part in these meetings or attend them. Thank you.
Thank you very much and thank you for the feedback on this and uh you know it was a different process
but um I think after everybody warmed up it actually went really well and it um I think
it's a great model for moving forward on this on this issue. Any further questions or comments?
Yes, Jim Skull Thorp, 1685 Willow Beach Road. because we're talking about this issue today and
getting people involved. It goes back to um 1980 1984 when Citizens for Responsible Nuclear Waste
Disposal formed because Elorado Nuclear was being sold to Kamico, a private corporation. And we,
the citizens of the municipality of Hope Township and Port Hope, were really concerned about who
was going to take on the responsibility of the waste. And our organization was able to persuade
the federal government to take responsible responsibility for this low-level nuclear waste,
which was a huge challenge for a small group to do that. And since then, we've had a sighting
task force to look for where this waste could go. That was the first federal sighting task force
that the Canadian government had ever set up. From there, it was decided that the municipalities of
Hope Township and Port Hope would accept the waste. That's where our $10 million for each
of our communities came from. From there, we set up community meetings to look at how much
waste was in our communities and to how clean or to background were going to clean it up. So,
there were citizens sitting around tables, hundreds of citizens within this community in
the '9s sat and made those decisions. Then it was silent for years. Nothing happened. The federal
government finally put a program together and we started cleaning the waste up. It has doubled or
tripled the amount of waste that was originally thought was in our communities and it has become
a multi-billion dollar project. I don't believe since that project started since we got letters
from our prime minister, letters from the ministry of minds and engineering and the minister of minds
and engineering coming to our community. I don't think we've had a federal minister or
the prime minister involved in this project. And I think we need to get our federal government and
our federal members of parliament working for us because that's where it all started. And now we're
dealing with all these different organizations that are under the ministries. But I don't think
our ministers are doing anything. And so we need to get the federal government working for us and
we need our MPs working for us. Today I drove up Marsh Road with a friend of mine. And he said,
"Who lives there?" I said, "That was a friend of mine that went to one room school. He died
of brain cancer." He said, "Well, who lives over there?" I said, "That whole family has
died of cancer." I went to a one room schoolhouse in Port Britain. There were 13 kids in our class
and I can tell you five or six of those people, my classmates, died of cancer and there were 13
of us in that school. And that's why I stood up as chair of responsible nuclear waste disposal and
said we need to do something in our community. And I applaud everybody for doing something,
but I get so upset when somebody says there's no health problems in this community when I can
give you the names of five children in a one room schoolhouse. I want to empathize with what you're
saying, but we know you know what I know. I just want everybody to know where this started from
and where it's going. And it is out of control. I don't think anybody knows what's happening.
Thank you. Thank you for Thank you for coming. Thank you for sharing that history. I couldn't
agree more that Canada and the federal government need to be more actively involved
on this file right now. And there there is now re-engagement at that level, but more pressure
has to be put on. And look, everybody can write to the member of parliament here.
Everybody can write to the member of parliament and express that same
sentiment. That is their role, right? As as one example and you know the rest of
it we're we're we're recording and we're taking back. So thank you. Any final comments? Um yes.
Thank you. Uh FYmore. Um, following up on what Jim has said, uh, in the Portoberry
Initiative annual compliance report of 2023, which was submitted to the CNSC,
a quote is radiation doses to the workers remained ALA that is as low as reasonably achievable taking
into account social and economic factors. Open door and estimated doses to the public remain
low. Not zero. Low. Doses to workers and the public were minimal. Not zero.
So I would ask you because this is urgent to ask CNL and AECL to stop telling the people
of Port Hope that there is no health risk here. It flies in the face of their own documents and
we would have evidence, science, medicine that says it isn't low. But let's just take them at
their word and it is the opposite of what the public is being told. Thank you. Thank you, F.
Um, I actually just want to make note that we do have PHAI representatives here, which is actually
a great example of having the people that are part of the project involved in the conversation. Um,
I would actually um uh hesitate or don't I don't actually hesitate but I have to put you
on the spot in terms of a question in terms of in terms of participating in the CCAC in information
distribution and facilitating the community representatives to understand the details the
scope and the timelines. How can you participate in that with us with the CAC? Would you be would
it be fair to ask you that question or would you care to get it back to the CAC at a later
time? So, it's a fair question. So, sorry. Can I I just procedurally I'm just I see a hand up. So,
so yeah, the the just noted as the mayor noted in the in the beginning um CNL representation
is here. AeCL is actually online as well listening to all this and taking this all away.
their their intent tonight was observer um not for commentary. They wanted to be able
to take it back. There is conversation that we need to have at council or at CAC. Where
where is the most appropriate place for CNL to come and do their quarterly updates and
presentations? Is it to the CAC? Is it to council? Those are further discussions that
we would need to have. But I think tonight the intent was, you know, not not but CNL. It was
more of a sit down and listen right now. Thank you for your presence. Mike said for
Hi Cameron Greenport hope um I want to thank uh you for putting this committee together and thank
uh some of the comments that were made. Claire saying it's time to take action now. Todd
saying we need to backs stop our residents. Less speaking to the immediate need to get information
about financing, mortgages, etc. These are all things that need to be done. Unfortunately,
this committee is starting years too late and its absence has cost many time, money,
and frustration. Uh, the legal agreement mandated a community advisory committee to
protect homeowners. So, I'll be asking you to take action tonight and to start backstopping
residents. I want to ask your assistance for one costly situation that I'm currently going through
and I know others are dealing with as well, others that are in the room here tonight. Unfortunately,
as this is not a process that I've ever dealt with and there was no community advisory committee to
advise us about the process, I missed the fact that taking a payment in L payout to have our
property restored by ourselves meant we would be subject to a massive water bill in order to
keep newly installed saw alive. PHAI despite often asserting to this council that residents are their
customers in order to have you believe that they are working on behalf of residents failed to work
on our behalf by bringing the cost of watering new sod to our attention when discussing the payment
in lie. Right now I'm running up my residential water meter and will be expected to pay the bill
to get the sod to grow roots despite the cleanup apparently being at no cost to the homeowner.
Worse, the municipality is charging $5.29 per cubic meter in sewer fees for water that is going
directly into the sod, none of which that is going into the sewer. I would like to have this issue
addressed. Uh, will the committee members making up this new committee table a motion or ask staff
to wave water andor sewage costs for homeowners restoring their properties for this at no cost
project? Or is it the position of this committee that Port Hope residents should pay for this part
of the restoration out of pocket? And will the municipality have the PHI honor their commitment
for the project to be at no cost to the homeowner by having PHI compensating homeowners for the cost
of watering the newly laid sod. Failing to do the above can only lead residents like myself
to believe that the municipality is quietly and purposefully choosing to benefit from a windfall
so egregious that you're charging homeowners affected by the cleanup $529 cents in sewer costs
for water that is used on new sod never touching a sewer. And the PHAI is saving money by choosing
to avoid any conversation with homeowners about the cost of watering newly laid sod and therefore
avoiding compensation for homeowners doing their own restoration. This is certainly something that
PHI is aware of and is purposefully avoiding. Thank you, Cameron. And was that reflected in
the in the general notes that were collected by your group this issue? Uh, no. Was it was it did
it come up? No. No. Okay. Okay. Because I I do believe that one of the things that we had we
had talked about at the at the very beginning is that this at least launching meeting was not about
any individual properties which is why I want to make sure that this got reflected somewhere
in the notes that that were taken. This is my individual property I'm talking about but it's
a general problem that others in the room. Yeah. And that's why I'm asking it's really important
that that was documented in the group discussions because that will also be reflected. Okay. In the
document that comes forward for action. Okay. I'll be asking someone from the committee to take on
this tonight. So, it's I thought it would be more uh um beneficial to do it right now. Uh PHI is
saving money by choosing to avoid any conversation with homeowners about the cost of watering the
sod. I would suggest that the choice of PHI and the municipality to deliberately, apparently
deliberately benefit financially from this issue is unconscionable. The core mandate of the Port
Hope area initiative states that the cleanup project is supposed to be at no cost to local
homeowners. I see the town making money. I see PHI saving money and I see homeowners losing money
on this issue. Will one or more of you on this committee take the lead with staff and/or PHAI
in resolving this issue so that homeowners are not on the hook for large water bills in order for new
sod to take root and live up to the commitment to homeowners that the cleanup will be at no cost to
them. Thank you. And I want to make sure that this um this point is recorded uh in the minutes that
will come forward to the document that this council will be considering September 15th.
any any responses on this? Yeah, I I understand the question. So, I'm I'm I'm looking to uh
council members uh sorry, CAC members uh for their responses. Uh councelor Atridge. Uh yeah, thank
you very much. I I actually think it's a really um important and and interesting um discussion
because it would not be one that would ever have crossed my mind that yeah, you know, when sod goes
down or gardens go down so on there's going to be a water bill that's attached to it and and
I think it's a uh it's definitely going to be an out-of- pocket expense and to your point they're
not meant to be out of pocket expenses and and so we've talked about you know how do we backs
stop financially and and so on. So, you know, I would suggest uh to committee members that this
becomes one of those agenda items. I know what uh what you're asking is that one of us picks it up,
but it's it's a committee issue. So, I think it just needs to become one of the agenda items
that we're investigating because it needs to be resolved across the municipality. Like,
you're not obviously the only homeowner that would have experienced something like this. So, we need
to figure out what the solution to this and is, whether it's uh you know, putting a a rate card
together on sod how much that money costs based on sod and water or whatever. I'm it's not for
for me to spitball the answer uh off the top of my head, but I think uh you know I'd put it to other
committee members that this becomes an agenda item uh for the CAC that we we make sure that
we resolve this and because it's it's definitely something that's going to be felt by the resident.
So thank you for bringing it forward. Any um yes councelor Mink. So, so because this is new,
um a question process or procedural question I would have is so this is coming to count to C's
attention uh which should come to council's attention. So, what what is the procedure
for council to make any direction regarding this matter? Yeah, Madame Mayor Madame Mayor through
you to councelor Mink. The minutes of the of this meeting will be posted to the agenda on September
15th. And at that time, uh, council members have the option to lift the minutes and then make a
motion based on on what is contained in those minutes. And as the mayor has noted earlier, uh,
you know, all of the all of the note well, not in as much detail, I think, but a synopsis of what is
discussed at uh at the during the public comment period will be provided in the in the in the
minutes for your consideration. And I would ask you Cameron to provide what you have in writing
to us just so we can ensure that it's captured correctly. Okay. Yeah. And just to reiterate,
we have had a discussion around this table that that document and all of the issues and items
that came up in the conversation and obviously at the podium will be up for discussion by council.
And the agreement was that we would be prepared to suspend the rules because we're talking about
that ahead of time to make sure that we continue to action on the things that are most important at
least in the first instance. Um so uh I appreciate that this is an issue that's important to me and
issue that's important to many others and that the committee is just starting. Um but as I say the
uh the this the committee was included in the 2001 legal agreement. It's decades late. Um,
so it's it's time is of the essence now. So I would hope that what I'm bringing forward to
you tonight is the first there's there's many many many many issues that have to be addressed because
we none none of them have been addressed till now. So I would ask that this committee show initiative
tonight and show that they're uh ready and prepared to take action by taking this on. Can you
tell me can you table a motion on September 15th and what would happen with that motion? What could
happen? what that process would be. I'm going to um I'm going to ask the clerk to just procedurally
talk about what that would mean um procedurally. Um thank you very much, Madame Mayor, and I I will
do my best to answer this question. Okay. Uh so so it is a bit of a unique situation because the term
of this council is coming to a close. The final meeting of this council term is September 15th.
So any motion that is passed by this council on September 15th of course if it can be actioned by
staff it will be it depends on on the motion right uh however if there is work that needs to be done
other decisions that need to be made arising out of that motion it will be the new term of council
that makes those decisions right there will be a new CAC start um after November 17th there
will be a new CAC right so some of these things will will may move forward after September 15th
uh depending on what the motions are, but ultimately future decisions of the CAC will
be made by the new term of council, the 2026 2030 term of council. Madame Mayor, I hope
that answers the question. But just going back to what we had discussed about the September meeting,
there there is still leeway for this council to make decisions on key issues. It doesn't not have
to be punted to a next council. Okay. Council Claire. Yeah. I'd like to respond to to your
request because obviously I did bring forward a motion that we did pass tonight. Um but that one
for me uh is a little bit different than what you're asking because it's one that I've heard
consistently over many years from many many many many residents. So for me I was ready the water
issue. No, the one uh the the resolution that I did bring forward about that third-party uh
expert panel. Um this is the first time that I'm hearing about this issue. Uh so I would need time
to look at what are our rate our current rates, how much does it cost? Like I need to understand
the scale and scope of what you're uh bringing forward. So for me, it's just not something that
I can action on the spot. Um but certainly open to to looking into that and I will do some homework
before it comes back in September. So it sounds like it will be on the table on September 15th.
Okay. So the the committee has time to take action and discussions by September 15th. And there sorry
there could be a table motion to say for example to wave the sewer rates for homeowners that are
having new sod laid uh as part of the cleanup. I think as the the clerk has outlined, it depends
on the scope of what that means financially because there are limitations on the kind
of policy that this council can pass during lame duck period. Okay. From a financial perspective,
but waving uh sewer rates, for example, is something that would be in the uh power of
the council and staff. It just depends on what we're talking about in terms of overall cost,
which is I going back to councelor Claire's point is that we all need some time to look into this
in a bit more detail so that we know what the financial implications are and to make sure
that that's something that can be done within the parameters of the power that we currently have.
regardless of the financial implications and what they are, if they're ownorous on the town, do they
do do does the CAC believe that the homeowner should be on uh the hook for what is supposed to
be an at no cost project? I think what we've said is this is a priority that will be coming forward
at the September 15th meeting. It will be part of the deliberations and there are limitations
on what can be passed at that meeting from a financial perspective and until the homework
is done to find out more about what the financial implications are we can't responsibly here say to
you yes or no because there's still some work to be done but I think you have a commitment that
this is going to come forward in the report that's being compiled and you've heard from councelor
cla a commitment of looking into this further and I'm sure others will be uh doing the same kind of
work. Just be I'm just hoping that I'm not hearing that if it's too costly for the town, we won't do
it. Um when Well, I'm going to turn it over to the CEO just to to be more precise about this.
Uh there's broader ramifications to, you know, waving water fees. The the the water rates are set
to meet uh you know, future costs. the this will come up in the discussion of council if there is
a waiver of fees that cost still has to be picked up and will be distributed across the the balance
of the rate payers so which needs a conversation of council they can't just be wait reduce the
rates for these people I I think the conversation needs to happen with the ACCL and CNL and funding
and making sure the project comes out costneutral for the residents you Cameron and I'll just point
out finally Adam may have had a question but uh um just I believe the Victoria Street reconstruction
um people are getting water and the only cost right now is the um s the distribution of the
water to the home. There's no cost for the water, no cost for the usage or the sewer.
So there is precedent in doing this. I don't know if that distribution of costs around the
town came up in that conversation or or what does did you want to Okay. Okay. Thank you. Other is
present. Thank you. Okay. Uh any further comments? Yes, Ed, don't forget to take your earpiece out.
Thank you. Uh I just had a a question and maybe I can't even ask it because we did kind of
discuss it a little bit. Um uh my question was on privacy. Um, and I know things have come up about
um I'm I'm not sure how how people would address a problem to the CAC in what manner they would
bring up a problem. Who would like if if if I had an issue, who would I get in touch with?
I'm sure you're probably going to figure this out on your when you figure the the schedule out. But
um how does one if you have a problem address the CAC? Um then the the next question is okay is is
somebody's name going to come up in a discussion in a open thing like this or does somebody get in
touch with you privately? Do I make an appointment um at the front desk of the town hall that I want
like I don't understand the privacy thing. We had a a thing with the the letters that came in today.
Um or that the correspondence at the beginning of the meeting. Um they weren't read. Is that
because of privacy or or I don't I don't know why they weren't read. a point was made um out
of one of the letters at one point. So I'm just I'm just curious how the system would work. Um
thank thank you for that. Uh so the letters are posted right as part of the agenda. Um, however,
I think you bring up a very important issue about privacy and there could be many members of the
public that don't want information about their properties shared with anybody else in the public.
And so I think there's uh some more work that needs to be done to put some appropriate guard
rails around that so that people are comfortable reaching out, finding out but ensuring that
um that that privacy will be protected and that they will remain confidential through the process
if if that is their wish and their intent. But thank you for bringing that up Ed. It's
a a really important point. Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you very much again for everybody
being here in attendance this evening. Um, the date of the next advisory committee meeting is
uh contingent on council decision on 7.4 which we now know is going to be in um November. And if
we can just get that exact date. Um, madam clerk, madame mayor, I think we will need to confer also
with the AECL to determine when their availability is and we will advertise that uh we will advertise
that date once we have that. Okay. So just just to be clear about that for public record. Thank
you. So at this point then um this concludes our business to be covered on today's agenda.
We've reached the end of the agenda 7:16 and I'm in a position to adjourn. Thank you very much.