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May board and committee of the whole to order. If you would please do the roll call.

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Supervisor Jan Kowski is excused and supervisor Barry Jikowski is absent.

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Student pledge?

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Aye.

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Oh, do you guys say

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one thing?

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Before we move ahead, I wonder if I could ask anybody currently serving in the military or all of our veterans to stand up and state

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your name and rank, if you would.

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They've taught me corporate E4, the United States

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Bank, or 59 or 63.

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Oh, Julie Maro, as the 10th Commander in the Navy,

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97, 2000, too.

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Steve Fritz, Lance Corporal, Infantry Self-Nepel,

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and 74, 79.

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That's right. Corporal, place, the United States report. I need to read the name so.

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We owe you all of that.

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I served from 80 million to 2022 receiving the, uh,

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turning the rank of Colonel retiring as a staff judge.

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Thank you so much.

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Public notice members of the public who wish to address the county board on specific agenda items

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must register their request at this time.

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We such comment subject to the public comment ordinance in the reasonable control of the county board chair set forth and Roberts rules of order review and approval approval of the November 4 2024 minutes

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motion by splinters second by

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And a discussion corrections or amendments, hearing non-algoes in favor, all those opposed, motion passes.

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Confirmation of county executive nomination.

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Number two, nomination of supervisor Julie Moore to the North Central Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission for a two-year term expiring April 20th, 2026.

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Ocean by Oki is seconded by Latic and a discussion.

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Hearing none, all those in favor, all those opposed motion passes.

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Resolutions and ordinances, number three, authorizing and ratifying a contract for services

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for about fuel supply,

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motion by due back, second by matcha kowsky, any discussion.

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Hearing none, all those in favor, all those opposed motion passes.

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Number four, revising and updating Portage County Ordnance 2.13.1, establishment of

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speed zones. Take a motion to get a lot of the floor, motion by Matt Schkowski, seconded

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by Andrew Rockman, discussion.

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Hearing none, all those in favor. All those opposed, motion

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carries.

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Number five, resolution for snowmobile trail aids, 2025, 2026 season, motion

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by LATIC, seconded by Splinter discussion.

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Here are non-algoes in favor, all those opposed motion

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curves.

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Committee of the Whole.

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We will now adjourn the county board meeting

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and convene the committee of the whole.

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We've got several goals this evening.

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We're going to look at county debt policy.

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We're going to get a presentation by director Josie

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And Kristen, they're going to kind of lay out where we're at on debt policy.

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How we make decisions, how S&P evaluates us, and then Carl Green, who you've all met

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from UW Extension, is going to walk us through an exercise to help us kind of understand

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where we're comfortable with in terms of our debt policy and level of debt in comparison

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the other counties and looking at all the variables within the counties.

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So, Jennifer, and Kristen, please take it away.

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All right, now that we've done with our technical difficulties, I think we're ready to go

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here.

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So, we had a previous meeting in which we talked really broadly about debt and issuing debt

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considerations and things that we go through. This presentation is very focused on debt

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policy and very specific about one component of debt policy that we're going to be talking

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through tonight.

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So if there's a slight delay. Okay,

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there we go. So just in terms of just about

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overview of what we're going to do tonight is we're going to go through what is it at management policy

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why you have one. Specifically talk about financial limitations around you know that management

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policy and and why they're important then that's going to help us define that affordability

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question that is really kind of the key to what we're going to be doing tonight. We'll go through

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some different measurements, some metrics you know there's lots of ways to talk about death,

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But there's very specific ways you can measure different components in terms of different metrics to determine where you see how you fit within a debt structure.

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You know, there's...

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There's a lot of different statistics that you can look at, but one of the things that we want to get to is how do we quantify or quantify those measurements so that we know how to represent those values.

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With that, we're going to talk a little bit about SMP credit-ladening methodology, and the reason we are going to talk about SMP is that the most recent rating that the county has is with SMP.

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There's different reading agencies,

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but we will specifically talk about SMB.

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And then we'll do some other county comparisons.

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And we picked a wide range of comparisons

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that have high levels of debt.

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Those that are similar in county size.

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Those that are similar in maybe kind of demographics.

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And then we picked some real outliers

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so that you can see the difference of what those look like.

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And at the end, we're going to do an exercise or two

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to talk about her, to help you provide some feedback

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and where the affordability matrix should be.

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And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Kristen,

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and she's going to take us through the first part

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of this presentation.

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Kristen Hanson is with a financial advisor,

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and she's been assisting the county for years.

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I don't want to put a number on it,

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I guess I don't really know, but most of the years

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that I've been your finance director.

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I'm better with numbers than technology.

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So, in a past life, or prior to this, I served on the National GFOA's debt committee as

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As I stated I'm better with numbers than technology, so I served on the GFO GFO A deck committee as both an

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issuer as well as a technical advisor as a financial advisor.

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And so the GFO A deck committee is really good about creating best practices and guidance for governments to help kind of you

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with processes. I mean, there's other committees to which help governments, but for the

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conversation tonight and the committee I used to serve on. So we have included

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do I have to go backwards?

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I think the other one. Because I want to go to the

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definition. No, it's going to go back again.

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So anyway, GEPAway defines what a

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policy is and basically it helps governmental issuers guide the process of issuing debt,

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helping with the decision-making process both on the part of elected officials and government

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staff, and it articulates gurus which sends a message to the rating agencies, to your investors,

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and to show that, you know, this is one aspect of your rating, to show that your government

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that's well-managed. And so that's what the importance is of a debt policy.

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So there are

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several elements that are included in a debt policy, a debt management policy, which Jenny

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has been working very good at pulling it together, but it talks about, you know, under what

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circumstances you would issue debt, what kind of restrictions you have both legally with state statutes

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state constitution, as well as what kind of restrictions you may want as a governmental body to

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place on when and how you issue debt financial limitations, which is going to be the focus

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of this presentation, structuring practices, how you structure the debt, the debt issuance

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process, which includes the method of sale, the debt management process, once you issue bonds,

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there's all sorts of rules that you still have to follow

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and then special circumstances.

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So in regards to the financial limitations,

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which is the focus this evening,

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there are indicators to consider for your general

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debt limitations.

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One is to look at it as a measure of the budgetary impact,

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which is kind of an internal focus,

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but also look at it as a measure

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of the community's ability to support the debt,

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Which is the external focus

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and so some of the affordability measurements that kind of will help guide this discussion and you can feel free to jump in as you want

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Is that you're guided by the legal development set by state statutes

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There's the direct debt burden which is what standard impures looks at one of the kind of metrics or criteria they look at the net direct net

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direct net debt per capita. So basically how much debt you have outstanding per person?

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They look at how quickly you pay out pay off the debt in terms of principle.

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And they look at it, you know, with 10 years how much is paid off.

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We look at your debt service expenditures as a percentage of your operating expenditures.

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Some other factors is the debt service as a percent of tax levy and the three items in

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italics at the bottom are things that they also look at.

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The rating agencies all of them, including S&P, look at what your pension liability is,

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per capita and what's nice about the state of Wisconsin is because of that Wisconsin retirement

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system.

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The rating agencies look favorable on that.

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They also look at kind of your overall cost for debt service and liabilities, which includes both your outstanding debt as well as your pension and OPEB liabilities, which you have none of the OPEB.

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And then also your available reserves as a percent of total reserves.

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So there are lots of things that the rating agencies look at. There's factors that you as a governing body can prioritize, which is important to you for your community.

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But those last three are important as part of the rating process, but that's not going to be a detailed part of the conversation this evening.

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So with that I'll turn it back over to Jenny.

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Thank you.

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So as we start kind of discussing, there's lots of things that we see or notice within our budgets or our community or economy that play into whether or not we think we can afford that.

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But again, it's how do you measure it and what are the things that we know we can measure?

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So direct debt burden, which is one of the S&P metrics, and it's also what the, my, my.

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I'll also say that we need to measure, which is how much of our outstanding debt principle, what percentage of that is, a debt principle, is a percentage of our equal as well.

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So, by law, we limited to 5%, but many counties will use this as a policy, metrics, a policy example, to guide their communities, or guide their counties by establishing their own limits.

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in which they measure themselves. Now, the one thing I will say is I did a survey of my peers

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and asked for policy examples. I have green from websites, both policies and budget documents,

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to get examples. That policies aren't extremely common. If that's not because those communities

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aren't managing their debt or they're not that they don't have policies, they're just perhaps

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not written or documented, but they are evaluating them and they are assessing their

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debt in different ways. It's just that it wasn't either readily available or they don't have

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them in procedures, which is not that uncommon. I am going to share with you budget document and

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examples that I found. Keep in mind that as Chris mentioned in drafting the county's debt policy,

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I have looked at policies outside the state of Wisconsin as well. I just don't have those metrics,

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you know documented here for you as well because it doesn't make much sense in some of those to

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compare to other states because they have other rules and other regulations, but I did use those also

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as a guy and kind of doing this research.

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So the ones that I've listed are just some

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that when I sit in policy examples of budget documents,

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you can see the range from 0.5%,

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which is a percentage of the equalized value,

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or you can look at a different way,

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which is 10% of the allowable limit by statute.

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So I put both numbers there, depending on how you want to think

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about it.

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So if you look at Washington County, for example,

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the policy is set at 0.5% of equalized value or 10% of the legal limit.

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And they range from, you know, the 0.5% of the way up to 2.5%, which is 50% of the

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of the statutory legal limit.

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This graphic that I can see on my screen, but you can't see it.

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This graphic is a representation of all 72 counties in where they fit kind of in that spectrum.

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They send 20, 22 data from the Wisconsin Department of Revenue County municipal revenue and expenditures.

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In coordination with the 2022 equalized value data.

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The arrow indicates where percentage county is in that chart.

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You can see that there's one outlier way to the right, which is Trumpalot County, who is just over 50%, and there are five counties between 20% and 30% and the remainder of the counties are below 20%.

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So that just kind of gives you a metric in 2022

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where everybody fit in terms of their direct debt

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and burden and what direct means is general obligation

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debt of the county.

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So this doesn't include external debt within your community,

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like your school districts or municipalities.

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This is just the direct debt of the county

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through general obligation debt.

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It also, in most cases, doesn't include

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like revenue debt or other types of debt as well.

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And if you want to ask a question, you may, this is also in your, okay, it's not.

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You have access to the presentation.

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The direct net debt per capita is looking at the outstanding debt principle.

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The total of what is outstanding debt, not just your annual debt payment,

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but total outstanding debt in comparison to your population.

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Again, there's a few examples for various municipality,

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or very various counties that have this within their debt policy.

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You can see that WAPACA has set those that they will not exceed $575

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per capita.

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We're married and county has indicated that they're comfortable $3,000 per capita.

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So it depends on your county and what your level of comfort is in terms of where you would want to settle policy limit if this is a metric you wanted to choose.

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Again, this is an example of using that same data from 2022 showing the various counties across the state of Wisconsin and the different levels and thresholds.

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So one point that I'd like to make is mortgage county is sitting right around $94, and

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you can see that towards the right-hand side of the chart, we start at about

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$10,000,000,

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going above $1,500 per capita, and I just want to point that out because there's a slide

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we talked about S&P rating methodology that I want to bring you back to why $1,500 is an important

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cut off, just so that you can see there's four counties currently above that metric.

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And again, these graphics are just demonstrating what people's actual debt looks like.

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This is not what their policies are, this is just their actual debt picture in 2022.

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Can

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you pay out ratio? Again, this is an S&P metric. This looks at how you structure your debt service schedule and how quickly you repay back that principle on your debt.

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So, Wapaka County, again, has felt that this is an important policy item and has placed in the policy that 80% of the debt will be paid off in the first 10 years.

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So

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this is a percentage of operating expenditures, this just looks at your annual debt service expenses and how they compare with your operating expenditures.

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There were a couple of counties that had variations of this policy.

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They were slightly different depending on how you read them. It's all about the policy that fits best for you.

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But again, this is looking at how much of your annual operating budget is that expenses.

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This is kind of a variation on one of SMPs, it compares debt expenditures to operating revenues, a little bit different.

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But again, what you don't want to see here is the higher that percentage becomes, it just demonstrates that the majority or a greater portion of your budget is used to pay for debt rather than kind of normal operating expenses.

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So you want to keep it on the lower end. Once it starts creeping up, that just kind of demonstrates that more and more debt that you're having to pay.

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So in this scenario, you can see that point-inch county is way past the middle, just slightly over kind of the midpoint.

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If you see where the area is kind of pointing. Again, one out there, way on the right side, otherwise you can kind of see the curve of counties.

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So why is point-inch county so different in this metric as compared to the others?

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Well, this is the reason.

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Polish County has a higher debt service experience because we are very aggressive and accelerated

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repayment schedules.

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So we pay more debt short home and over the course of our debt service schedule.

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So our outstanding debt is relatively low, but our payback is larger and more aggressive,

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which kind of places us in a different place on the graph and this one.

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So just to demonstrate what the metrics tell us, the metrics all tell us something important,

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but they are unique and individual, so they kind of work together to tell the story, which, you know,

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there's not a right or wrong metric, but they are unique and individual.

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So you might have a situation where, as a county, let's just say, for example,

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and I've seen this in policies where they said, you know, we're going to measure five metrics.

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But we need to meet like three of them to know that it's okay for us to move forward because

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in some cases you won't meet all your metrics or you won't have the ability to do so depending on

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what the metric is because of the differences between them. Does that make sense?

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But that's a list to a percentage of tax study. Again, this is a very easy one to measure. There

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a few counties in Wisconsin that have this as a metric in the policy. You can see O'Clayer County

240
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chose 3%, with a caveat to a school proprietary funds, and a Zaki chose a percentage of 12,

241
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and a half percent. Again, very different kinds of licks. I guess, I don't know specifically,

242
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But most policies, even though they don't state it, exclude proprietary funds because proprietary

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funds in and of themselves record the debt within the enterprise fund.

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So a lot of times when you're looking at some of these ratios, they will exclude the proprietary

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funds.

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That was the same on the earlier one when you're looking at any expenditures of debt service

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to annual operating expenditures.

248
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,580
that's only looking at the operating and expenditure expenditures of the governmental funds,

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not the proprietary funds. I should have mentioned that earlier.

250
00:26:36,610 --> 00:26:37,590
So now we're going to talk a

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little bit about SMP credit rating methodology.

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So according to SMP, SMP is standing in

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pores. They're one of a few rating agencies that we go to to evaluate the county's financials,

254
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financial situation economy and so on to get a rating for when we move forward with issuing

255
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debt. Within S&P, they have five credit factors and the focus tonight, we're going to focus

256
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on debt liabilities. So, Christian kind of touched on them really quickly earlier but the reason

257
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that we're focusing on debt liabilities is these are the ones that will refer back to your

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policy. So I'm not indicating that reserves in liquidity. It's still important. It's still

259
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a factor. It's 20% of your overall credit score. But your debt policy is really linked to

260
00:27:36,830 --> 00:27:47,170
your debt reliability's factor of the most in terms of the debt component. So we will talk a bit

261
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about that in our experience on our last rating.

262
00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,020
So within that 20% of that fact key factor,

263
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there are three components.

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50% of it is assessed for the current cost

265
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for debt service and liabilities.

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25% is net direct debt,

267
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and the other 25% is net pension liability.

268
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:18,800
And this is all coming from a standing

269
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importers initial assault metrics. Now keep in mind that there is a metric for all of these

270
00:28:26,220 --> 00:28:31,520
things, but the rating is way more than they run a metric and then they say, okay, this

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is where you fit, this is your score. There are indicators within your rating that can move

272
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:46,920
you up or can move you down depending on what they see as trends, what they see as experience,

273
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how the conversation goes.

274
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I don't know that I'm really missing. So I just so I

275
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want you to think that when we have a rating, the only thing they do is they do a bunch

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of math and they say this is your score. If it was that easy and simple, I'd be able

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to replicate what they do but it's not. So I've tried to look at some of their scoring

278
00:29:15,460 --> 00:29:18,860
and get answers to how they came up with a number

279
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and it's just not that direct of math.

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So when we talk about current cost for debt service

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and liability, this metric itself is

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this looks

283
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at your current cost of your debt as a percentage

284
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of your overall revenues.

285
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So they will look at your annual debt service, pension,

286
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and other post-employment benefits,

287
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which we don't have any divided by the total government revenue.

288
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They do consider WRS's plan.

289
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The calculation, but again, even though we find it, it's state run and it's state managed. And I will tell you that because we do have state WRS as a considering factor, it's actually a very high score for Wisconsin counties and municipalities.

290
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,760
Anyone who's within the WRS system, it tends to elevate your score in this category.

291
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So, that is one of the metrics and you can see there are six kind of ranges.

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As some people define the ranges in terms of the different categories in the different scoring,

293
00:30:32,860 --> 00:30:40,180
and then based on that metric of where you fit, you will get assessed that initial assessment

294
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score and from there there are other criteria that go into that measurement, but it's kind of a

295
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:52,760
point for how they start the evaluation process. So, point each county I did put on here that

296
00:30:52,760 --> 00:31:00,000
we were 5.1, so we fit into that number one category. So, when we talk about, when the cost of

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your debt service goes up, but your revenues do not. That's going to affect this metric and it's

298
00:31:05,980 --> 00:31:12,240
going to move us on the scale. So, when you ask questions about, what will additional that do to your

299
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,060
grading score, this is just to give you or demonstrate an example of how that works.

300
00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:23,040
Now, I don't know what it's going to be because it all depends on the amount and that kind of stuff.

301
00:31:23,540 --> 00:31:30,800
Once we got to that point, Kristen and I would work close together and kind of figure out what does that mean?

302
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,620
What does this number mean? And we would do more assessment.

303
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But that's just to give you an example of how that will fluctuate on that scale.

304
00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:52,390
And then also in comparison, this is the net direct debt per capital and that's 25% of that

305
00:31:53,370 --> 00:32:03,010
20%. Again, this is based on what we were being rated on and you can see I just told

306
00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:07,910
you a little while ago that in 2022 we were at 94 dollars. Why does this say percentage

307
00:32:07,910 --> 00:32:11,810
going is at 272 net direct debt per capita.

308
00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:21,170
Well, we would be enraided on having outstanding debt of just over $6 million, plus we had just

309
00:32:21,170 --> 00:32:25,750
provided them with a preliminary official statement that said we were going to buy all of it

310
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just roughly over $13 million.

311
00:32:28,830 --> 00:32:33,870
So in their mind, our outstanding debt is going to be around $19 million, and that's what

312
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:35,230
they're based in the waiting room.

313
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So, when they did build calculation, Portie Choney was 272, and it fit the Metcategory 1 under the $500

314
00:32:45,470 --> 00:32:53,250
mark per capita, and that was the initial assessment that we received in that rating category.

315
00:32:54,210 --> 00:32:59,750
Now earlier, I told you one of the slides, remember that $1,500 per capita ceiling.

316
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Well, the reason why is you can see, as you get to the second category, it caps out at that $1,500

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per capita mark, and that's where you move to category three.

318
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So as you per capita cost for your outstanding debt service increases, that's how you move

319
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on that scale.

320
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Everybody with me?

321
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:26,600
Okay.

322
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,460
Everybody's brought out of their mind.

323
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:31,000
Yeah.

324
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:40,750
So, we're going to talk a little bit more about some examples and before we get to that,

325
00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:44,730
one of the things that's going to be important is to understand that there are different

326
00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:46,950
rating categories, by different rating agencies.

327
00:33:48,730 --> 00:33:52,670
We utilize S&P, we utilize S&P since I've been with the county.

328
00:33:53,290 --> 00:34:00,190
I believe the county in previous years has used moodies, but it's been quite some time since

329
00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:01,070
we have.

330
00:34:01,070 --> 00:34:18,830
I think moody's in S&P for Wisconsin County's tend to be the most common, you know eyes, but this gives you kind of a roadmap to how ratings are compared by between rating agencies.

331
00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:27,350
Because they have different numbering and watering systems. So this just kind of gives you that roadmap of how they relate to one another.

332
00:34:27,350 --> 00:34:34,390
So, Pornage County is a AA, which is a high quality, which would be comparable to a

333
00:34:35,350 --> 00:34:36,730
moodie's AA-2,

334
00:34:39,740 --> 00:34:39,760
okay?

335
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:48,520
Do you previously say that's the highest rating and the highest quality our size can get?

336
00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:55,340
I remember in that correctly, so in order for us to move up to an AA plus or a triple-A,

337
00:34:55,340 --> 00:35:03,620
the our scores in economy and our

338
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:25,890
scores in management with the increase management generally were okay and financial performance were okay and reserves and liquidity and debt and liabilities we hit it out of the park.

339
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:35,530
But our low score is economy and I just don't know necessarily what to do to increase that one.

340
00:35:35,770 --> 00:35:41,710
There is work we can do on the management side, one being said a debt policy,

341
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:48,210
but I don't know that said in a debt policy is enough to escalate a rating.

342
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:53,570
It's going to help it, it's going to improve it, it's going to maybe do one of those things that helps

343
00:35:53,570 --> 00:35:59,010
You know what I said, they can look at the assessments and they have certain criteria that will not you up or down.

344
00:35:59,350 --> 00:36:03,590
It's one of those things that might give us the notch, but I don't know that it's going to

345
00:36:05,590 --> 00:36:10,450
necessarily boost us in our last rating, which is what Chris and his hand in to me.

346
00:36:10,690 --> 00:36:14,050
They did indicate we could raise the rating of the county experiences.

347
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:21,950
Significant economic growth leading to Demon, Demon's,

348
00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:25,650
view of the county's management practices material and improve.

349
00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:30,200
So that's the upside.

350
00:36:32,380 --> 00:36:33,360
There's a downside.

351
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:36,300
I'll read that since I have it in front of me.

352
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,360
We could know where the rating should the county become operational and balanced,

353
00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:43,740
even to a material reduction in its reserves.

354
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:45,520
That's the downside.

355
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:51,100
That would be what they would look at and to possibly lower the county's rating.

356
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,220
When assuming we get to a point where we have real numbers,

357
00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:09,060
we're going to feed out of the world because we're going to take on debt, will we

358
00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:14,800
we run this debt and this rating and be able to include that in our calculations because this

359
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,360
is going to change our interest rates, which will change the overall cost of projects,

360
00:37:21,060 --> 00:37:26,740
will we know that while we're planning, will we plan and then send it and find out? How does that work?

361
00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:29,980
So...

362
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:43,860
Right when we did the rating call before you just had the last issue, Jenny had mentioned that S&P had kind of changed their methodology for rating state and local governments and change kind of the waiting.

363
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:52,900
So, we actually are quantitative strategies group, bigger nerds and bond nerds.

364
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:59,240
Actually, we do a credit calculator so that we can plug in some of those into the calculator.

365
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:09,260
They haven't completed it yet, so we can at least see what the pressure points might be and where you might see things change in the five different categories.

366
00:38:09,260 --> 00:38:19,280
So, you know, debt is 20 percent, economy is 20 percent, you know, management is 20 percent, you know, liquidity is 20 percent.

367
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:26,160
So there's, you know, all these different factors that go into, you know, the rating, but we're in the process of updating that.

368
00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:35,700
So at least we'll have some guidance, it's no guarantee, she talked about there's other factors, what we call notching factors, that they look at as well.

369
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:40,320
You know, it's it's it's it's the data, you know, they look at all the data,

370
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:45,960
but they also will look at kind of how quickly or how long it takes to pay up debt.

371
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:52,180
And other other factors, they compare and we include in your offering document, kind of what your

372
00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:57,940
median income is to the state of Wisconsin's median income to what like the nation's, you know,

373
00:38:58,060 --> 00:39:02,480
average median, you know, median income is and, you know, they will kind of call those things out

374
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,220
where you are compared to similar types of entities.

375
00:39:08,340 --> 00:39:09,980
So we'll have some guidance.

376
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,300
Quick question.

377
00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:22,120
When all decisions are going to be made about that service for a new jail, say 130 million

378
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:31,180
whatever, or then add into that, and a remodel cost, another 35 million, something like that.

379
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:52,380
Those two are we in the position of take on those two projects at once, so we're going to have to do one and then five years down the line do the other, I don't know, I thought we were, we were in a good position at this point to take on both without making our ratings look like a crazy outlier.

380
00:39:52,380 --> 00:40:05,500
So can you hold that very important question to a little bit later in the presentation because I think you will answer that question once we get there.

381
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:07,720
Thank you.

382
00:40:21,490 --> 00:40:22,610
So county comparisons.

383
00:40:24,750 --> 00:40:26,210
We've done some math.

384
00:40:28,050 --> 00:40:34,750
specifically for Polish County. So in the last presentation we had put together kind of a comparison

385
00:40:34,750 --> 00:40:41,550
of what are we today, what does 100 million dollar project or what does 100 and 62 million

386
00:40:41,550 --> 00:40:47,370
dollar project or what is 200 million dollars look like. And again, we picked the numbers

387
00:40:47,370 --> 00:40:54,690
because they gave you some parameters of to think about things. It's not because it's for a specific

388
00:40:54,690 --> 00:40:57,270
project, they're just numbers.

389
00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:03,330
And then we'd assign some metrics to the various types

390
00:41:03,330 --> 00:41:09,270
of categories, so that you could use Portage County and compare it to other counties.

391
00:41:11,490 --> 00:41:15,810
And with these numbers, in looking at them,

392
00:41:18,620 --> 00:41:21,420
so for example, for Portage County, you see I've

393
00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:27,240
to 100 million dollar projects and I show a direct debt burden of 123 million. Well, we have

394
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:32,320
other debt than just 100 million dollar project. So we have to account for all those different

395
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,600
kinds of criteria. And at the point in time that we put this together, those were the numbers

396
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,540
we had and those were the scenarios we had. So I wanted to continue the same scenario's

397
00:41:41,540 --> 00:41:46,800
through it all just so we were in stringent from scratch again. It's not because these numbers

398
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,880
me many things special to me.

399
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,420
So this will provide you kind of the difference in the escalation and what happens to direct

400
00:41:56,420 --> 00:42:02,520
debt per capita, what the percentage of statutory debt limit is used, what that 10-year

401
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:08,380
payout looks like, I can tell you for mortgage counting, we've always been at 100%, now I don't

402
00:42:08,380 --> 00:42:13,680
know what those other payouts would be because we haven't put anything together to show

403
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:21,040
that yet. I did some scenarios for debt service to total tax revenue ratio based on the numbers

404
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:26,380
that we had and carried through some of the criteria like population, equalized values,

405
00:42:26,380 --> 00:42:32,140
or all the same. S&P rating, I'm assuming they're doubly, but I don't know that based on those

406
00:42:32,140 --> 00:42:34,620
numbers because we wouldn't know until after the rating.

407
00:42:39,350 --> 00:42:44,370
From here we've chosen 12 14 counties in

408
00:42:44,370 --> 00:42:52,090
to compare some metrics to. Do you want to? Do you want me to just start talking about

409
00:42:52,090 --> 00:43:00,050
the new fill-in? Okay. So we tried to compare it to some of our neighbors. Wood County who has

410
00:43:00,050 --> 00:43:07,650
got a direct debt burden of over 116 million. They're at about almost 30% of their debt limit used.

411
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:13,790
They have a 10 year payout ratio just over 52% so what does that mean?

412
00:43:13,790 --> 00:43:23,150
They're paying off about half of their debt in the first 10 years, meaning the other half is probably some time in the next 10 years.

413
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:27,830
The population is very similar to Portage County.

414
00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:32,550
Their median house or their income is very similar to Portage County.

415
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:40,170
Portage County has a slightly better equalized valve, and they have a very similar rating.

416
00:43:41,130 --> 00:43:48,470
If we look at Washera County, Washera County has almost 55 million outstanding, their

417
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:53,930
percentage of statutory debt limit uses about 25 percent, they direct debt per capita

418
00:43:53,930 --> 00:44:01,810
is over $2,200 and their 10-year payout ratio is just under 50 percent.

419
00:44:02,050 --> 00:44:07,070
Their debt service to total revenue ratio, and that's based on 2024 because they're pulled

420
00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:10,830
from budget documents is just under 20%.

421
00:44:10,830 --> 00:44:14,670
They have a significantly smaller population than we do.

422
00:44:15,390 --> 00:44:17,990
The meetinghouse holding commas is lower,

423
00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:20,830
and they're rating a slightly lower as well.

424
00:44:23,330 --> 00:44:27,070
Managed to our county, we pulled because it's a similar

425
00:44:28,030 --> 00:44:30,230
size county, slightly larger,

426
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:34,110
and they have about on a 30 million outstanding in debt.

427
00:44:35,110 --> 00:44:41,270
Marathon County as well, we pulled metrics, they had some larger debt issuance and capital projects.

428
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:45,910
They're just shy of maybe $4 million that I don't see any.

429
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:51,150
They're at about 10.86% of the statutory debt limit used.

430
00:44:51,710 --> 00:44:55,110
And if you recall early on aside, their policy is 10%.

431
00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:59,970
Well, one thing that I just want to point out with policy is the policy.

432
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:25,180
The policy is, you know, adherence to your policy is your choice. So is your guiding tools. So not everything is going to fit me and a box. But those are the choices. Once you say your policy, you know, if you're going to go outside your policy, you need reasons. And you need to be able to say to your community. Why? So it's not intended to be

433
00:45:27,870 --> 00:45:31,250
a restrictive kind of policy.

434
00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:38,510
more guiding and tools that way. Now, in saying that I also am cautious that if you're

435
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:42,590
going to set a policy, you'll never follow it, don't set a policy. So,

436
00:45:57,210 --> 00:45:57,870
the next slide

437
00:45:57,870 --> 00:46:03,270
for completely different counties, Calumette County, who had just under 40 million

438
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:04,590
dollars outstanding,

439
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:13,710
slightly smaller population, kind of a different economy, you know,

440
00:46:13,710 --> 00:46:15,950
terms of, you know, where they're located,

441
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:21,450
the median household income is higher, their

442
00:46:21,450 --> 00:46:27,050
equalized value and comparison to their population is a bit higher than where we are.

443
00:46:28,990 --> 00:46:32,630
But again, they direct debt per capita as one, you don't just under $700.

444
00:46:34,110 --> 00:46:41,030
If we look at Chippewa County, they're at about $10, just over $10 million of debt don't

445
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:47,890
any. No, something interesting to note on this one, there are similar in size, population

446
00:46:47,890 --> 00:46:55,790
rise, similar in size, maybe higher median household income, higher equalized value.

447
00:46:56,130 --> 00:47:02,090
But you'll see their debt service to total tax on the ratio is zero. Well, that's because

448
00:47:02,090 --> 00:47:08,410
they have debt service. However, they're not issuing any revenue to pay for their debt.

449
00:47:08,410 --> 00:47:14,930
mean that it's in the proprietary funds. It's an enterprise fund that is being paid

450
00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:21,050
paying back that debt. It's not the general government paying back that debt. That's why it's

451
00:47:22,130 --> 00:47:28,530
0%. So county senior situation, they have evolved 45 million dollars in outstanding debt

452
00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:35,550
and it is solely with their proprietary funds. Dodge County, slightly higher population,

453
00:47:35,550 --> 00:47:38,730
$20 million outstanding debt.

454
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:44,030
A higher equalized value, similarly rated Moody Z-2,

455
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:50,810
and they have about $225 that per capita.

456
00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:58,000
And again, the debt service to total tax heavy is 0%.

457
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,360
Because they're not using any debt service to pay for that.

458
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,500
out sending debt.

459
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,520
So McCowny is across county has about

460
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:20,060
57 million in outstanding debt. That's 7 just over 7% of their

461
00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:23,700
statutory debt limit used. They're direct debt per capita is about

462
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:24,820
$460.

463
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:33,020
And much higher equalized value, much slightly higher

464
00:48:33,020 --> 00:48:38,820
median household income, much higher population, low debt service to their

465
00:48:38,820 --> 00:48:45,000
tax every ratio is over 17% and you can see the rest of their numbers.

466
00:48:45,140 --> 00:48:56,700
Pupping County, part 10 million in debt, very low, a much smaller population, medium

467
00:48:56,700 --> 00:49:04,460
household income, similar, equalized value, much much lower, but that, you know, in terms

468
00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:06,460
of their population that would make sense.

469
00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:08,200
As far as we were, we were waiting.

470
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,520
You can see that their debt service to total tax

471
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,240
every issue is almost, is over 28%.

472
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:18,360
You can see they've used about 19% of their statutory

473
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,240
debt limit.

474
00:49:19,820 --> 00:49:25,960
And their debt per capita is roughly 1,075 dollars.

475
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:29,720
So again, there is taking a very, very small county

476
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:32,720
in comparison to mortgage county or other counties.

477
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:35,240
and seeing how the numbers kind of change.

478
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,020
I was at the county in Jefferson County again,

479
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,700
just choosing Jefferson County

480
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:45,820
because they had about 46 million dollars outstanding debt.

481
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,220
We wanted to give enough examples,

482
00:49:47,380 --> 00:49:49,520
where you could see some outstanding debt

483
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,500
and what it does to the metrics.

484
00:49:56,090 --> 00:50:00,070
And then the last two that we included in your

485
00:50:00,070 --> 00:50:01,970
Comparison's were rich in county,

486
00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:09,430
tremble county, tremble county, kind of hit the end of the charts, and a couple of the slides.

487
00:50:10,030 --> 00:50:14,850
So they have about, this is, and this is current data. They have 68 million outstanding,

488
00:50:15,850 --> 00:50:23,830
and they are using about 39% of their statutory debt limits. There are 10-year payout ratios

489
00:50:23,830 --> 00:50:33,830
is about 68% meaning that they have a payback may than half in the first 10 years.

490
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:45,720
And the population is, you know, as over half the size of a ported county's population.

491
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:48,920
But again, just another way to look at those metrics.

492
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,660
Do you want anything you want to add to these?

493
00:50:52,660 --> 00:50:58,860
Chris and both all the kind of metrics from recent official statements.

494
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:10,190
So, yes, I tried to be very consistent with the timing of the data, so all of their outstanding debt is literally as of yesterday.

495
00:51:10,990 --> 00:51:18,550
You know, based on information you can find on, you know, in their official statements or in their annual disclosure filings.

496
00:51:20,110 --> 00:51:26,630
And, you know, you can see that the ratings are all very similar, but those, there's two counties,

497
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:32,070
Manitwak, and Richland that are in just the single, what we call the single A category.

498
00:51:32,890 --> 00:51:39,890
And what I noticed in when those, when their deck got issued, is that the, there was moderate insurance.

499
00:51:40,330 --> 00:51:46,290
And so usually when we all go, when we, when we take our client's funds to market, our funds to know it's to market,

500
00:51:46,290 --> 00:51:53,770
we give the underwriter the election if they want to buy insurance, which affects the interest rates,

501
00:51:54,430 --> 00:51:59,210
but those two counties because they were on the single A category, the winning underwriter

502
00:51:59,210 --> 00:52:04,210
did actually purchase insurance so that it would have a higher debt reading. So just some

503
00:52:04,210 --> 00:52:05,110
just kind of nuances.

504
00:52:06,330 --> 00:52:07,790
So you should be proud of your ratings.

505
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:21,630
35.

506
00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:40,900
I'll get it by the end, promise. Okay, so what does all this mean?

507
00:52:45,250 --> 00:52:47,330
Being a debt policy and

508
00:52:47,330 --> 00:52:52,990
capital planning and why are we talking so much about that? One is because Mr. or supervisor

509
00:52:52,990 --> 00:53:00,650
Swimcher has a very pressing question, which is how much? Which we need to answer, because

510
00:53:02,410 --> 00:53:07,210
that answer and affordability is really important to how we move forward with capital

511
00:53:07,210 --> 00:53:13,410
planning. So one of the things that we're doing concurrently right now is based on previous

512
00:53:13,410 --> 00:53:19,970
meetings that we've had the capital improvement handbook has been updated. We've assigned

513
00:53:19,970 --> 00:53:27,850
some metrics. We have a KIPAA valuation team currently working on ranking projects and determining

514
00:53:27,850 --> 00:53:34,730
where those fit to give a recommendation to the county executive to say, you know, we've

515
00:53:34,730 --> 00:53:39,430
re-ranked the project. This is where the project's rank out. And this is what we need to do

516
00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:47,510
from a project side. Okay, that's all fine. I'm good. I'm the debt planning side. We need to know

517
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:56,130
what's affordable. How much? Where do the numbers lie? Where do they fit? Those two policies, which are

518
00:53:56,130 --> 00:54:03,590
separate policies come together. They operate apart, they have different goals, different objectives.

519
00:54:04,350 --> 00:54:07,450
But when it comes to the capital plan, they come together.

520
00:54:08,010 --> 00:54:14,690
That's where we take those projects that were ranked, and we take the affordability,

521
00:54:15,350 --> 00:54:18,470
and we put them together and say, how do we make it happen?

522
00:54:19,710 --> 00:54:23,910
And that's how we get to that next step of what can we do when?

523
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:29,990
is we need to know what's affordable and what are the projects and then we'll figure it out.

524
00:54:30,650 --> 00:54:31,470
We'll put it together.

525
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:39,200
So, taking those two and putting them together to term in the financing plan.

526
00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:45,120
The financing plan gets layered into the capital plan and that comes back to you as a body to adopt.

527
00:54:46,260 --> 00:54:50,500
So, the big question is, does this mean we have to build your budget?

528
00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:51,640
Yes.

529
00:54:53,260 --> 00:55:03,700
But and I know that's kind of been a little bit of a headache for this board as we've talked about those into a budget because we don't want to build the wrong project.

530
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:10,000
We don't want to cut corners. I agree with all that. My my coworkers all agree with that.

531
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:17,900
You all agree with that. None of us want to build a project that is not the right project that doesn't need our needs.

532
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:26,380
But we do have to build the right projects in the right order to get the achieved goal

533
00:55:26,980 --> 00:55:31,440
and we can do the projects, it just might be that you can't do them all tomorrow.

534
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,160
So we have to come with a plan of how we're going to do that.

535
00:55:36,460 --> 00:55:39,940
And we need to figure out what's affordable to put together the plan.

536
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:43,800
So,

537
00:55:46,650 --> 00:56:01,750
with that in mind, depending on what kind of questions we have before we start is our next step is to go through an exercise to help us get a sense from you where you feel affordability lies.

538
00:56:02,010 --> 00:56:09,790
And I think we've made the first determination, we've made the first decision for you.

539
00:56:09,790 --> 00:56:16,970
And when I say that, you could overrule me, but the first decision is the basis of our

540
00:56:16,970 --> 00:56:23,370
policy will start with percentage of lobby use according to the legal limit.

541
00:56:24,350 --> 00:56:26,670
Because it's already a good metric in place.

542
00:56:26,990 --> 00:56:31,290
It's the way the state measures the legal limit, so that's probably the best place to start.

543
00:56:31,330 --> 00:56:37,610
It's also the most common policy criteria that others use in setting policy.

544
00:56:37,610 --> 00:56:46,510
So I think that's the starting point, so in terms of where do we start, we've made the determination that that's the metric.

545
00:56:47,310 --> 00:56:48,070
So now,

546
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:55,860
going through the exercise that next step, Kyle will help lead us through.

547
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,640
But that's where we're going to need your help.

548
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:01,600
So with that?

549
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:04,700
Yeah.

550
00:57:05,220 --> 00:57:05,880
All right.

551
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:06,480
All right.

552
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,900
Well, thank you and good afternoon, evening, everybody.

553
00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:11,680
So we're going to do two different exercises.

554
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,500
The first that we're going to talk about is this direct debt burden.

555
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,300
So what I'm asking you to do is I will give you a single dot.

556
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,120
You will come up to this first graphic on the right,

557
00:57:27,420 --> 00:57:29,640
I guess, of the other one.

558
00:57:30,260 --> 00:57:35,640
And that has the direct debt burden as a percent of equalized value.

559
00:57:36,980 --> 00:57:49,100
And so what I'm going to ask you is put your dot at what you feel is the top amount that you would want to go as a county as a county policy.

560
00:57:50,660 --> 00:57:58,880
So wherever you put your dot, you're saying you would accept up to that much debt, but no more. Does that make sense?

561
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,060
And does it make sense what that graph shows?

562
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:10,500
So you have an up to 5% your statutory limit state statutes restrict you issuing

563
00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:14,340
any more than 5% of your equalized value in debt.

564
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:20,500
Those different percentages are what percent of that statutory limit.

565
00:58:21,180 --> 00:58:28,140
So the 50% I believe, which is the graphic on the far right, the highest one up, that

566
00:58:28,140 --> 00:58:32,860
would be two and a half percent of your equalized value or 50 percent of your statutory

567
00:58:32,860 --> 00:58:39,680
element. Is there any questions on how that graph is laid out because how you put your

568
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,940
dot and how that graph is laid out is a very important issue. Yes sir.

569
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:52,100
Thank you. Is this the time where we answer supervisor splinters question because I think

570
00:58:52,100 --> 00:59:06,220
For us to make an educated decision on this, we kind of need to know the costs or relative costs of a few projects to understand what kind of level limit we can take and then how much that's going to impact each individual per capita.

571
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:13,100
I mean, I ran a few of these numbers and on the higher percentages and I.

572
00:59:13,100 --> 00:59:16,060
uncomfortable with how much that would cost each individual taxpayer.

573
00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:19,770
I'm not saying it's not

574
00:59:19,770 --> 00:59:23,330
sustainable but it is something to consider.

575
00:59:34,530 --> 00:59:36,910
Sorry, I think it took over. Did you want to answer?

576
00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:38,350
Yeah.

577
00:59:42,810 --> 00:59:49,630
Okay, so on this slide, but that service scenario is part of County. So this gives you, if you look at

578
00:59:49,630 --> 00:59:59,970
slide. This slide will particularly give you the today, which shows you at 3.7.

579
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:09,920
5% of your limit used. It shows you a hundred million dollar project puts you in that about 123 million

580
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:17,480
dollar range of outstanding debt. A hundred and sixty-two puts you at about a hundred and eighty-five,

581
01:00:21,730 --> 01:00:26,610
and two hundred million puts you right in that two twenty-three, two twenty-five range. And again,

582
01:00:26,770 --> 01:00:32,430
these are, please remember that when we did those estimates, how many months ago they were, you know,

583
01:00:32,430 --> 01:00:40,670
off them, they're still rough. So, you know, just know that think about this in the scale

584
01:00:40,670 --> 01:00:43,810
of how that works.

585
01:00:46,770 --> 01:00:52,050
The other thing that can help, you know, that's, that's kind of

586
01:00:52,050 --> 01:00:57,330
portage county. The other thing that can kind of help when you're thinking about this is

587
01:00:57,330 --> 01:01:02,030
that slide from earlier, when I showed you all the counties,

588
01:01:05,090 --> 01:01:06,850
and others buy that quickly to do this.

589
01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:09,450
But I've just figured out how to press the button

590
01:01:09,450 --> 01:01:11,850
so I'm not going to try anything different.

591
01:01:21,980 --> 01:01:30,260
Is this slide, which shows you kind of the range of counties?

592
01:01:30,740 --> 01:01:32,860
You know, and we talked about some of those counties

593
01:01:32,860 --> 01:01:35,680
that are in the far end, and where their dad is,

594
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,860
and what those parameters are.

595
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,380
So you can kind of get the picture of the state,

596
01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:44,000
as well as where porters county fits into that,

597
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:46,040
depending on those sizes.

598
01:01:48,850 --> 01:01:53,390
I think it's also worth noting that

599
01:01:53,390 --> 01:01:57,250
nearly 90% of the counties are at 25 or below.

600
01:02:00,650 --> 01:02:02,530
Today, I think it's also kind of telling

601
01:02:02,530 --> 01:02:04,550
in those counties that have bumped up.

602
01:02:04,850 --> 01:02:08,430
They do have large kind of things going on in their communities.

603
01:02:08,430 --> 01:02:13,150
It's not abnormal or that they kind of went up for a reason.

604
01:02:13,770 --> 01:02:16,750
That's probably not the normal, that limit.

605
01:02:16,970 --> 01:02:21,650
You know, in terms of their everyday capital projects,

606
01:02:22,730 --> 01:02:27,490
they tended to have some other things going on in those communities.

607
01:02:29,170 --> 01:02:30,290
I'm not.

608
01:02:31,110 --> 01:02:35,590
I don't know enough about it to speak to those projects

609
01:02:35,590 --> 01:02:36,690
that they're doing in such.

610
01:02:36,690 --> 01:02:39,430
But I do know that they've had some larger dead issues.

611
01:02:39,550 --> 01:02:42,710
So that tells us they have some large things going on.

612
01:02:43,450 --> 01:02:44,770
Just to kind of give you perspective.

613
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:48,670
But in terms of supervisor, spongers question

614
01:02:48,670 --> 01:02:51,770
and the reason that I wanted to wait to kind of get to this point

615
01:02:51,770 --> 01:02:55,370
in time is this is a policy decision.

616
01:02:55,730 --> 01:03:00,970
And this is there's not a right, there's not a wrong answer here.

617
01:03:01,290 --> 01:03:06,350
The reason that the graph only goes up to the 50% is it's other

618
01:03:06,350 --> 01:03:15,710
And then the outlet, they have trampolose lately over, that's not typical and we can see that by the statistics, so

619
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,200
I guess I'll stop there.

620
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,680
Do these dollar amounts help? I thought we had one more than we could add on there.

621
01:03:27,940 --> 01:03:30,100
25% there was, if you go.

622
01:03:30,100 --> 01:03:33,760
There's one out about a hundred and twenty three, that's a hundred million dollars.

623
01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:42,080
Yeah, so I'd say if a hundred million dollar project were put in set about a hundred and twenty-three million outstanding.

624
01:03:42,420 --> 01:03:43,940
Well, who said was that?

625
01:03:44,180 --> 01:03:48,340
Uh, twenty-four point eight, one about twenty-five.

626
01:03:53,080 --> 01:04:00,680
You start to get to see the graduation of how it affects hundreds of about just on a twenty-five percent.

627
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:07,970
You're getting involved 200 billion in just under 50% and that's 200 million additional

628
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:11,230
including what you had in this scene, which is that's 70 million.

629
01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:23,180
So that shows the limit and I'm asking you to just put your dot at where you feel you wouldn't want it to go up above.

630
01:04:23,700 --> 01:04:26,440
Go up to that limit, but not above.

631
01:04:28,540 --> 01:04:29,560
That's clear for everybody.

632
01:04:32,500 --> 01:04:32,640
Yeah.

633
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:33,300
Who are you?

634
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:34,360
Supervisor Randolph.

635
01:04:37,030 --> 01:04:39,150
So my head's about to explode a little bit.

636
01:04:39,750 --> 01:04:43,990
So I'm going to try to stay on topic, which is not nearly my strength.

637
01:04:45,470 --> 01:04:50,310
But I understand what we're trying to do here, like we're trying to set policy guidelines

638
01:04:50,310 --> 01:04:53,610
so you can make decisions within those guidelines, which needs to be done.

639
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:58,730
This actually reminds me of a house renovation project my wife nighted years ago that started

640
01:04:58,730 --> 01:05:04,650
with what we wanted to do, got insane, and instead we set a budget, I was like, I don't care

641
01:05:04,650 --> 01:05:09,050
what we do, because I didn't, and we set a budget, and said, well, we can do whatever

642
01:05:09,050 --> 01:05:13,850
out within that number. So that's kind of what we're trying to do here. But the difference

643
01:05:13,850 --> 01:05:20,010
is I was deciding whether or not I needed a new kitchen but my old kitchen worked. So I

644
01:05:20,010 --> 01:05:24,650
could cut whatever I would cut a lot out of that budget and it really didn't matter in my day

645
01:05:24,650 --> 01:05:30,630
today. It seems we're being asked to come up with a number for a policy because I guess somebody

646
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:39,030
has to based on our guts. Like one of my supposed to look at here I feel so unqualified to make

647
01:05:39,030 --> 01:05:44,010
this decision. Because you're asking me what I'm comfortable with when I look at that data

648
01:05:44,010 --> 01:05:50,250
and I'm not lost on data, but it also seemed that what counties borrowed didn't change their

649
01:05:50,250 --> 01:05:56,410
moody's radius much. So what are we supposed to decide based on here? I'm going to go up and

650
01:05:56,410 --> 01:06:01,830
go, I can live with the amount of projects we have, so it needs to be two and a half percent,

651
01:06:02,430 --> 01:06:08,290
but then that'll make us the highest tax county maybe, which has a large scale economic impact.

652
01:06:08,290 --> 01:06:10,170
And I'm trying to weigh that.

653
01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:17,070
So one of the things to point out, and just before I get too far, so Attorney Hick

654
01:06:17,070 --> 01:06:21,990
of your kindly pointed out that tonight we're not setting policy, we're just providing

655
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:27,310
guidance and where your comfort levels and different measurements and different metrics.

656
01:06:27,930 --> 01:06:37,250
I will take this information back, and I will put it in some type of policy that will come

657
01:06:37,250 --> 01:06:39,430
to finance committees that eventually come back

658
01:06:39,430 --> 01:06:42,530
before this board that you get to decide on.

659
01:06:43,450 --> 01:06:46,850
But again, it's to help set some parameters

660
01:06:46,850 --> 01:06:53,330
of what guidance we need in terms of where we feel that that is.

661
01:06:53,810 --> 01:06:55,810
So one of the things that Chris and I

662
01:06:55,810 --> 01:06:58,790
were just kind of also talking about on the side here as well

663
01:06:59,810 --> 01:07:04,290
is when you set, when the county establishes

664
01:07:04,290 --> 01:07:13,750
within its quality policy on limit, a financial limitation, it doesn't, it's not one time, right?

665
01:07:14,430 --> 01:07:21,570
So when we have capital plans that last six years and every year we updated and it's a new

666
01:07:21,570 --> 01:07:27,290
capital plan for the next six years and then a new capital plan for the next six years, we are always

667
01:07:27,290 --> 01:07:29,970
evaluating and with.

668
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,680
We determine within those limitations how we accomplish our goals.

669
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:40,520
And if our goals are, we want to do certain projects.

670
01:07:43,260 --> 01:07:49,820
It might be just how we lay out those projects, how we do components of those projects,

671
01:07:49,820 --> 01:08:02,480
how we determine how to schedule those projects because as we issue that we will

672
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:11,260
continue to pay that. So as we might hit a limit within three years we might

673
01:08:11,260 --> 01:08:16,620
have paid off enough that we can now issue again additional that depending on

674
01:08:16,620 --> 01:08:26,460
different structures and how we lay that out. But not knowing at any one time what's

675
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:36,420
affordable, kind of as that ceiling is kind of difficult to do without kind of having

676
01:08:36,420 --> 01:08:43,660
some guidance. And I'm trying to, I know the question is what should the number be? I'm trying

677
01:08:43,660 --> 01:08:51,620
give you examples to show you what others have done. There's not a, there's not a

678
01:08:51,620 --> 01:08:57,360
formula I can put this through and say the answer is this. You know, in your personal life,

679
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:02,780
you decide how much you're going to put on that credit card. And then you have to live with it.

680
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:10,980
In this case, when we issue debt as a as a county, we have to reconsider it of what's going to

681
01:09:10,980 --> 01:09:15,580
up on that tax bill and how our community is going to pay for it.

682
01:09:15,700 --> 01:09:20,440
Now that doesn't mean that these aren't on necessary needs, it just means we have to think

683
01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:26,160
about a way to lay it out in order to accomplish those within the limitations we've set

684
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:26,980
for ourselves.

685
01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:33,660
And again, the statutory of a limitation is 5%, you know, we've put on here up to 50%.

686
01:09:33,660 --> 01:09:40,480
You can issue more of that's a choice, but I'm trying to advise you in the sense of what others

687
01:09:40,480 --> 01:09:46,000
have done and I don't see that anywhere. So

688
01:09:49,260 --> 01:09:51,680
I'm trying to do the best I can to provide you

689
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:57,040
with what's meaningful to help you make the decision and I can provide more information

690
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:04,800
to help you get there. But this is kind of a starting point. And you know what, I'm actually

691
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:08,680
pretty excited because everybody's still with me. I figured by this point, what do you mean?

692
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:10,980
You all would have checked out.

693
01:10:12,510 --> 01:10:12,670
Question.

694
01:10:15,290 --> 01:10:18,690
Since I didn't get Jack members, I have to fear.

695
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:23,130
Again, I'm just facing it on my tenure as experience on the board here.

696
01:10:23,850 --> 01:10:31,450
Trying to figure out how we get a jail that's up to standard and a safe courthouse.

697
01:10:31,450 --> 01:10:36,670
And I think those two projects, say the jails, 130,

698
01:10:38,850 --> 01:10:40,190
and the remodel of 35.

699
01:10:40,870 --> 01:10:48,690
So we're talking a total in my mind, 165 million, that we kind of have to do all at once.

700
01:10:49,110 --> 01:11:00,650
Otherwise, you wait 10 years, that 35 million will transform into 65 million, or the 120 million will transfer into 180 million.

701
01:11:00,650 --> 01:11:28,210
So I think with our desk service being as low as it is, we have to seriously consider doing those two projects at the same time, and that's my general idea of that 165 million's got to fit in, and I think we can fit it in, because we're an advantageous area of our paying down our debt and doing our great job in the finance department by doing that.

702
01:11:28,210 --> 01:11:31,350
We got us in a great position over the last 10, 15 years.

703
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:37,130
But we desperately need a new jail, and we desperately need a safe courthouse.

704
01:11:37,710 --> 01:11:41,950
And both of those have to be almost considered the top two.

705
01:11:41,950 --> 01:11:45,150
I can't think of anything else on the top of my mind, at least,

706
01:11:45,370 --> 01:11:47,350
that would rank above that.

707
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:49,430
So those are two biggies.

708
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:55,690
But for getting done, we're, you know, getting paid off in 20 years.

709
01:11:55,690 --> 01:12:05,230
We'll have done a good service for the county, so that's just my thoughts of what I'm seeing here as far before I go up to my top

710
01:12:12,130 --> 01:12:18,070
Supervisor is this sort of service chief. I get a direct address is trying to do here and

711
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:20,630
Get an idea of what we're comfortable with

712
01:12:21,790 --> 01:12:31,410
I'm not looking in as exercise for the main reason that I may be okay with spending $130 million on a new jail

713
01:12:32,070 --> 01:12:36,790
But I'm not okay with spending $130 million on a new human society.

714
01:12:37,450 --> 01:12:38,990
It depends on a scope of the project.

715
01:12:40,230 --> 01:12:43,510
So I may become so willing up there, but I'm not sure what the scope of the project is.

716
01:12:44,370 --> 01:12:48,190
So really that could be more envoy for one and a hundred percent for the other.

717
01:12:48,650 --> 01:12:52,190
So I get what you're trying to get to, but I'm not comfortable with the exercise.

718
01:12:52,890 --> 01:12:54,050
Just because of that.

719
01:12:54,050 --> 01:12:55,390
If I could just sort of...

720
01:12:55,390 --> 01:12:59,130
It doesn't commit you to establish, you know, $165 million.

721
01:12:59,130 --> 01:13:05,510
Those projects still need to come forward to the board and they would get approved on a project by project faces.

722
01:13:06,170 --> 01:13:10,670
What this is just doing is like establishing, if you're going to look for a house,

723
01:13:11,050 --> 01:13:13,630
what is the top dollar amount you're willing to spend?

724
01:13:14,910 --> 01:13:17,930
You know, often that's going to be 30% of someone's income.

725
01:13:18,230 --> 01:13:20,690
So what is that dollar amount that we're willing to spend?

726
01:13:21,090 --> 01:13:23,490
That's really what we're trying to establish here.

727
01:13:23,490 --> 01:13:28,670
that doesn't mean you have to spend that. Each of these projects will come individually through

728
01:13:28,670 --> 01:13:34,670
the county board and it'll get voted on. This just gives the window for which we can operate.

729
01:13:34,810 --> 01:13:40,650
The county can operate. It's finances under. So keep in mind, this is an establishing that yes,

730
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:45,550
you now have to have that much debt. This is just saying this is the maximum amount that you have to

731
01:13:45,550 --> 01:13:53,010
have again approval project by project. Let me just I need to clarify. This is under committee of

732
01:13:53,010 --> 01:14:01,530
agenda. There's no action items. This is discussion only. This is designed to facilitate

733
01:14:01,530 --> 01:14:09,790
conversation and discussion. It's establishing nothing. There's no policy. This is not

734
01:14:09,790 --> 01:14:17,170
directly tied to a pending future action. It's designed to facilitate conversation based on

735
01:14:17,170 --> 01:14:24,290
agenda that's set forth to facilitate discussion based on the agenda and the committee of

736
01:14:24,290 --> 01:14:24,910
the whole.

737
01:14:25,370 --> 01:14:28,510
And so I just again clarify what's happening.

738
01:14:30,170 --> 01:14:36,130
The other thing I just want to point out to supervisors this one of it's question which I think

739
01:14:36,130 --> 01:14:47,150
is important is the whole main of the capital planning to the debt management policy that the

740
01:14:47,150 --> 01:14:51,590
wouldn't really mean much without having an identified

741
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:56,190
capital plan, which again, we just went through that process of

742
01:14:57,770 --> 01:14:59,530
evaluating the...

743
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:12,980
Involved to say we now have criteria to rank projects because they meet certain goals and they get certain scores, meaning they have a different level of importance compared to other projects.

744
01:15:13,460 --> 01:15:29,020
So it would still have to be demonstrated need to the county and would still need to meet the criteria for us to say it should even be a capital project in the first place to get to that capital plan adoption piece is kind of how that would work.

745
01:15:29,020 --> 01:15:32,820
So it wouldn't be a, you know, an automatic kind of thing.

746
01:15:34,060 --> 01:15:37,040
Supervisor Rendoza, then, the supervisor, Matt Chikovsky.

747
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:41,820
I'm trying to clarify this in a way not to be a follow of our rules, because

748
01:15:41,820 --> 01:15:46,180
not saying we're making a policy or decision based off it, but is it accurate to say

749
01:15:46,180 --> 01:15:50,820
these sort of discussions which could eventually lead to types of policies

750
01:15:50,820 --> 01:15:55,640
are the sort of things that in the S&P rating, having these managed

751
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,520
having management policies, having debt policies,

752
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:00,260
are going to help us in ratings, correct?

753
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,480
So that's a part of what we're doing here

754
01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:05,900
is making sure that from the outside,

755
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,600
we look like we have criteria, not just,

756
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:11,340
all right, thank you.

757
01:16:11,540 --> 01:16:12,060
Absolutely.

758
01:16:13,540 --> 01:16:16,600
I would also add that it has a board that gets

759
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,760
as to a point where we're comfortable

760
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:22,580
or have an acceptable level of debt.

761
01:16:22,940 --> 01:16:25,260
And so we're not really talking projects tonight.

762
01:16:25,260 --> 01:16:31,820
we're talking about where we want to be and what that percentage of a statutory debt we want

763
01:16:31,820 --> 01:16:37,460
to have as a county. And again, you know, the graph here that shows 90 percent of the counties

764
01:16:37,460 --> 01:16:44,540
under 25 percent. Again, I think that's a very telling number. It shows you where most counties

765
01:16:44,540 --> 01:16:53,100
are in the state are at. As Jenny said, we can go wherever we want here. And again, we will

766
01:16:53,100 --> 01:17:00,960
to ranking the projects, but we have to start somewhere in terms of death service and where we want to be as a county.

767
01:17:02,060 --> 01:17:05,960
And again, there is no magic number, there is no easy calculation.

768
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:15,420
And really that's the rationale for the exercise tonight to just get us to think about what those guidelines might be.

769
01:17:23,270 --> 01:17:24,310
I'm sorry.

770
01:17:24,870 --> 01:17:28,210
Matt, um, supervisor, just go ahead.

771
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:29,710
Thank you.

772
01:17:31,390 --> 01:17:36,230
We're trying on some extremely thin ice here with the committee of the whole.

773
01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:45,710
We are essentially going to take a straw poll, which we've been told before in the committee of the whole as an allowed.

774
01:17:46,530 --> 01:17:50,250
We had asked that and we're told by corporation council that we couldn't take a,

775
01:17:50,250 --> 01:17:56,470
drop a shop or vote. By putting a sticker on there, we're essentially doing a

776
01:17:56,470 --> 01:18:00,630
shop or vote. Everybody says this isn't policies, isn't a decision. The

777
01:18:00,630 --> 01:18:08,550
chair just said, this will get us to a point. That's a decision. And it may be a

778
01:18:08,550 --> 01:18:14,850
misstep, a mispoken, but we are treading on very thin ice. And I hear

779
01:18:14,850 --> 01:18:23,590
these points about this, and this is why this is such a grayery and uncomfortable, because

780
01:18:24,370 --> 01:18:28,770
I have not heard yet from one member of the public, oh wait, it's a committee of the

781
01:18:28,770 --> 01:18:31,710
whole, so we don't take public input.

782
01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:35,110
So the public has no input on there.

783
01:18:35,290 --> 01:18:41,450
If there were 40 people here this evening, and this was in a gender item that we were going

784
01:18:41,450 --> 01:18:43,890
to discuss, and I realized that may come in the future.

785
01:18:43,890 --> 01:18:52,450
But it should be happening now too because I don't know what their debt comes to build that area.

786
01:18:53,210 --> 01:18:56,890
I can justify project A to my constituents maybe.

787
01:18:58,190 --> 01:19:00,890
At maybe let's I'm going to pick a number say 130 million.

788
01:19:02,130 --> 01:19:06,950
But project B at 30 million I can't justify that.

789
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:15,770
I realize we're looking at that as a whole, but we're cutting very, very thin ice and we are essentially taking a

790
01:19:15,770 --> 01:19:19,150
straw poll tonight by up there voting with that.

791
01:19:19,370 --> 01:19:24,190
And we've been told multiple times that that's not allowed under the committee of the whole.

792
01:19:25,130 --> 01:19:26,630
Very scary situation.

793
01:19:36,060 --> 01:19:42,500
I'll read it from my standpoint and certainly, you know, I agree there should not be any straw

794
01:19:42,500 --> 01:19:48,440
and struggles in terms of an expectation for a future decision.

795
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,380
So, I agree. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. I would not deem that is it.

796
01:19:54,360 --> 01:20:00,260
And so again, my understanding is the state intent is to try and facilitate conversation.

797
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,500
I will obviously state the obvious and, you know,

798
01:20:04,500 --> 01:20:32,920
Our dissipation is voluntary and if people don't want to participate in this, I mean that's obviously a choice and from my standpoint, as long as it's clear that this is not making a decision, it's not geared toward making a specific decision or gaining a consensus on a specific decision on a specific future item.

799
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:35,360
You know, as is,

800
01:20:37,980 --> 01:20:42,840
it's probably, you know, there's, there's some level of risk associated with it,

801
01:20:43,420 --> 01:20:49,280
but having discussed this ahead of time, and discussing it tonight, again,

802
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:53,240
I think it's the Facility Conversation, Heartess Patient is Voluntary.

803
01:20:54,460 --> 01:21:04,740
It's not designed to be establishing a policy or trying to, by straw-pole gain consensus towards a specific decision.

804
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:16,540
I would reiterate what Coke Council just said, this is an exercise to get us comfortable with and to understand what the playing field is.

805
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:21,760
It's not binding. We are clearly not making a decision. Supervisor Moral.

806
01:21:22,340 --> 01:21:33,640
I realize that some of this is just the cost of doing business, but if you took like the 50% like right in the middle of that, where does that put us on that graph?

807
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:39,820
like how far over a Temple of County are we going to go if we are like right in the middle

808
01:21:39,820 --> 01:21:46,080
like the average of all the options? So like 25%

809
01:21:57,440 --> 01:21:59,440
that's like a hundred and twenty three million

810
01:22:11,310 --> 01:22:18,590
to put us only two, three, four, five, six from the left, from the right.

811
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:19,850
We're

812
01:22:21,870 --> 01:22:24,850
25% of the one that's first in

813
01:22:28,210 --> 01:22:28,730
the two.

814
01:22:34,050 --> 01:22:40,050
I believe 25% is going to put us five bars over from the far right.

815
01:22:40,630 --> 01:22:42,050
five or six.

816
01:22:43,330 --> 01:22:43,910
Yeah.

817
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:46,310
This is a.

818
01:22:46,530 --> 01:22:48,770
You know, I'm going to say, you've got to touch that.

819
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:49,650
We can do

820
01:22:52,110 --> 01:22:52,430
it.

821
01:22:52,430 --> 01:22:56,590
Because Trimpo County spent that money on a justice center.

822
01:22:56,630 --> 01:22:58,970
And renovations to their county courthouse.

823
01:22:59,310 --> 01:23:04,390
So I like is that just the birth of their requirements of reality.

824
01:23:04,630 --> 01:23:10,630
So if you're looking at this chart, you know, like the middle of this graph is like a percent of a statutory limit.

825
01:23:10,630 --> 01:23:15,350
I mean, that's where people are around 8-10% in the middle.

826
01:23:15,790 --> 01:23:20,490
You know, so a few way to say a mortgage county was at 8-10%, 8-10%.

827
01:23:24,260 --> 01:23:25,060
We're at,

828
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:35,100
I have to pull it up so I can read the number.

829
01:23:35,500 --> 01:23:36,900
Yeah, I'm size can't read the chart.

830
01:23:37,340 --> 01:23:40,260
10% is like 46.6 million.

831
01:23:41,340 --> 01:23:45,500
So the middle of this graph, you know, if you look at the columns in the middle of this graph,

832
01:23:45,500 --> 01:23:55,600
You know, they're between eight and 10 percent, 10 percent for a poor-ditch county in 2024 numbers is 46.6 million.

833
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:08,180
So, you know, like an accountant at Marathon who said the policy at 10 percent, you know, they have a much higher equalized value than we do.

834
01:24:08,180 --> 01:24:14,480
So if you know, I don't know that it, a building project, you know, for the same number of

835
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:19,460
square feet is in a cost more than marathon county than it doesn't portage county, but

836
01:24:19,460 --> 01:24:23,740
you know, scalable kinds of things, they probably need a bigger building, you know, depending

837
01:24:23,740 --> 01:24:24,800
on what it is.

838
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:30,980
But, you know, the cost of the type of project in a marathon county, compared to a porch county,

839
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:32,400
wouldn't really be that different.

840
01:24:41,340 --> 01:24:55,580
Well, I'll keep answering questions while we're discussing, I mean, I can continue to provide information at some point the county needs to gauge where we're going and some of these numbers.

841
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:04,000
It's hard to put together planning when we don't have guidance.

842
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,080
That's the word. Yeah, thank you.

843
01:25:08,610 --> 01:25:12,570
So I'll answer any questions that help people with understanding

844
01:25:12,570 --> 01:25:18,510
debt burden, understand metrics, understand why we measure them, understand radiance,

845
01:25:18,770 --> 01:25:20,610
any type of...

846
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:25,840
Yeah, I didn't do those good.

847
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:28,020
Jenny, I got one question.

848
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:29,920
You mentioned this $1500 mark?

849
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:30,740
Yes.

850
01:25:32,100 --> 01:25:36,760
If we go over that $1500 mark, what does that do to our S&P ratings?

851
01:25:38,440 --> 01:25:41,380
Or what's the consequences of doing that?

852
01:25:41,380 --> 01:25:48,200
Yeah, you'll show us what it doesn't would be at $15,000 per capital or how would it go?

853
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:50,900
Yes, and yes.

854
01:26:04,820 --> 01:26:07,360
So, again, going back to the S&P metrics,

855
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:22,450
net direct debt is 25% of a 20% rate criteria. So, you know, five percent of the overall

856
01:26:22,450 --> 01:26:24,570
is what it equates to.

857
01:26:27,130 --> 01:26:32,510
So, let me look at those metrics. You can see that the Met

858
01:26:32,510 --> 01:26:39,430
direct debt per capita, that level 3 is it takes you to that level 3 category, and

859
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:50,990
those 1 through 6 corresponds with the S&P rating. So, taking you from AAA to AA to A to B,

860
01:26:50,990 --> 01:26:56,230
I don't have the rating in front of me, but it drops you down as you go just in that category.

861
01:26:58,790 --> 01:27:05,690
So without letting it through the full analysis of Kristen and talked about it, it would definitely drop us down to that next category.

862
01:27:06,150 --> 01:27:07,790
So we're definitely having an impact.

863
01:27:08,830 --> 01:27:14,420
And then from there, you have a second part to your question, Joan.

864
01:27:17,870 --> 01:27:22,890
What kind of impact would it cost us, if we go above this, if we go above this, if we go

865
01:27:22,890 --> 01:27:27,210
over there, and what is our total debt limit at $1500?

866
01:27:27,550 --> 01:27:31,790
So, definitely we would have an impact in driving that potential leading downward.

867
01:27:32,690 --> 01:27:38,650
In terms of the 1,500, when they look at the numbers that I provided in the presentation,

868
01:27:39,290 --> 01:27:44,610
so for our 100 million dollar project estimate, which puts us at a direct debt burden

869
01:27:44,610 --> 01:27:49,790
of about a hundred and twenty-three million, the direct debt per capita is about

870
01:27:49,790 --> 01:27:50,710
seventeen-hundred.

871
01:27:53,940 --> 01:27:57,060
So that would be over that fifteen-hundred mark. You know, so

872
01:27:57,060 --> 01:28:01,960
a little bit lower than that would put you at your fifteen-hundred.

873
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,580
Supervisor Splinter, then I'm going to give a brief explanation.

874
01:28:07,580 --> 01:28:16,560
You want? Go ahead. Okay. I think the community of the whole thing has worked well.

875
01:28:17,460 --> 01:28:25,420
Well, I'll go until just right to this point and I'm taking a listen closely to what

876
01:28:25,420 --> 01:28:30,940
man is, he's uncomfortable and I think a few other people are uncomfortable putting a

877
01:28:30,940 --> 01:28:39,060
up there without having the public join in, or at least give some, I don't know why we couldn't

878
01:28:39,060 --> 01:28:45,620
have another community as a whole meeting. I mean, we had two already this month. I mean, it's a good

879
01:28:45,620 --> 01:28:52,980
process, but maybe open it up to the public that we're going to kind of get a feeling from the

880
01:28:52,980 --> 01:29:02,960
as to what they're comfortable with, and the public has an ability to say what they're comfortable with.

881
01:29:03,100 --> 01:29:10,420
Before we make this the dots on the board, at least it'll be more of an open process.

882
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:17,500
And the public has a chance to chime in, and then when we put this up on the board because from what I heard,

883
01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:23,780
You're going to take that all the dots on that board and take it back financed to figure

884
01:29:23,780 --> 01:29:24,460
out decisions.

885
01:29:25,300 --> 01:29:29,500
So that's kind of a, that's as close to a straw pole as I've ever seen.

886
01:29:30,140 --> 01:29:35,740
So maybe we can just pick it up at the next, we can do it in a couple of weeks or whatever,

887
01:29:36,660 --> 01:29:41,240
but I think it's an important process, and when we talk about, and maybe we can even talk

888
01:29:42,100 --> 01:29:45,700
about potential cost of our two

889
01:29:45,700 --> 01:29:48,500
and major projects we got in the works.

890
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,960
So, all right, I'm gonna jump in here.

891
01:29:53,820 --> 01:29:57,100
So, tonight, really is an informational meeting.

892
01:29:57,880 --> 01:29:59,960
And we need to be able to have this kind of doubt.

893
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:07,680
I logs so that we understand where the borders at and if we have a full understanding of what

894
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:14,580
these graphs mean and what the level of debt and the debt policy that the county undertakes is.

895
01:30:14,900 --> 01:30:20,940
I certainly get maths concern. The intent of this is not a straw poll. It's not binding. We are

896
01:30:20,940 --> 01:30:30,200
not going to ask or vote this evening. So instead we're going to eliminate dots. We're

897
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:33,780
not going to use dots tonight. What we are going to do is we're going to talk about the

898
01:30:33,780 --> 01:30:41,800
ramifications of those ranges of percentage of statutory debt and debt per capita. So

899
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:49,180
that we all have a clear idea of what are decisions when we come to make a decision on a

900
01:30:49,180 --> 01:30:54,020
a particular project and the cost of that project, we have this in the background

901
01:30:54,020 --> 01:30:59,240
to understand what are the ramifications of that project decision. Again, we shouldn't even

902
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:03,600
be thinking projects this evening because that's not what this is about. It's very

903
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:10,580
hard to divorce the two, but again, this evening is an informational meeting and exercise

904
01:31:10,580 --> 01:31:16,540
and sure that the board understands the ramifications of his decision on debt policy.

905
01:31:16,540 --> 01:31:18,640
Does that make sense for everyone?

906
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:21,800
All right, Supervisor Josie.

907
01:31:23,180 --> 01:31:23,400
Director.

908
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:28,720
I just want to clarify that, you know, in terms of, you know,

909
01:31:28,860 --> 01:31:32,820
next steps for debt policy, finance committee is going to get a

910
01:31:32,820 --> 01:31:37,240
debt policy before them, and they will, you know, have something in their

911
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:38,960
future that they will have to evaluate.

912
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:41,820
I mean, I know you mentioned projects, but I just want to be

913
01:31:41,820 --> 01:31:45,260
specific that debt management policy is something that the

914
01:31:45,260 --> 01:31:49,760
County should have in its future.

915
01:31:53,140 --> 01:31:55,440
All right, Kyle, would you like to dive in?

916
01:31:55,900 --> 01:31:58,940
Well, I guess I would start to look at that direct burden.

917
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:01,920
And can we start to ask those questions?

918
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:08,100
Does it make more sense to look at it as a percent of what you're allowable?

919
01:32:08,540 --> 01:32:10,920
Or is it what is the total cost of that?

920
01:32:10,940 --> 01:32:12,620
Or what is the cost per capita?

921
01:32:17,470 --> 01:32:18,670
supervisor shorts.

922
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:25,000
So I don't have a lot of financial experience. You threw a lot of numbers

923
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:31,760
and a lot of jargon at me. So I don't entirely understand all of this. So forgive me if I say

924
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:41,860
something weird right now. But how can you translate this chart over here into what it will

925
01:32:41,860 --> 01:32:49,900
cost a tax payer, like, what are the graphs you showed us or the numbers? It has the most

926
01:32:49,900 --> 01:32:57,980
direct relational value that someone who knows nothing about government or finances at all,

927
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:04,040
can say, okay, I make this much or my house is worth this much. This is how this will affect me directly.

928
01:33:05,020 --> 01:33:10,300
What's difficult about that is that we don't still don't know the structure of that at. So

929
01:33:10,300 --> 01:33:19,500
You could have a three-year term, and that cost for that same amount of debt burden would be a significant more than if you had it at a 20-year term.

930
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:32,260
So how you are terming the length of your debt, the issuance of your debt, is going to change or it's going to change the impact of what is the cost per taxpayer.

931
01:33:34,850 --> 01:33:46,160
Supervisor Match goes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think this might help the conversation and maybe get us started and it's a personal opinion, so we're not taking off a poll here or anything.

932
01:33:48,730 --> 01:33:50,240
I pride myself in my credit rating.

933
01:33:52,190 --> 01:33:54,310
What's my business credit in my personal credit?

934
01:33:55,450 --> 01:33:58,530
And I think as a county we pride ourselves in our double a rating.

935
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:08,420
I would like to see a debt policy that doesn't drop us into a single rating that will keep

936
01:34:08,420 --> 01:34:15,260
us at a double rating. Does that make sense? Is that a good starting point for conversation?

937
01:34:16,980 --> 01:34:19,720
I guess I would ask what's the impact of that?

938
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:26,680
Because if you're not sure, that's not a good

939
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:32,340
thing to hang your head on as a policy. And I do realize what the impact is on it, because as we go

940
01:34:32,340 --> 01:34:35,200
for future debt issuances, whether it be roads,

941
01:34:35,340 --> 01:34:38,800
smaller debt issuances, than a project

942
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:40,420
where we're not talking about projects tonight,

943
01:34:41,300 --> 01:34:43,080
as we go for smaller debt issues,

944
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:45,500
are cost to do business gets higher,

945
01:34:45,900 --> 01:34:48,160
because if our rating drops are interest rates go up,

946
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:49,540
and then we're paying bond insurance,

947
01:34:51,020 --> 01:34:52,900
so all of that moves on.

948
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:56,440
So I do understand what affect our rating drops,

949
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:58,000
it's just like a personal credit score.

950
01:34:58,120 --> 01:34:59,420
As your credit score goes down,

951
01:34:59,820 --> 01:35:01,780
you're gonna pay highest in higher interest rates.

952
01:35:01,780 --> 01:35:05,440
But by point is, what is the financial impact of that?

953
01:35:06,020 --> 01:35:07,020
It's an unknown.

954
01:35:09,710 --> 01:35:12,630
So if we're saying we're going to hang our head on it,

955
01:35:12,750 --> 01:35:14,930
being a single, going to a single label,

956
01:35:14,930 --> 01:35:16,850
what is the financial impact of that?

957
01:35:16,890 --> 01:35:18,490
Maybe it's a lot, maybe it's not a lot.

958
01:35:19,150 --> 01:35:22,570
But not knowing that is to me the concern

959
01:35:22,570 --> 01:35:25,710
of making a decision based on an unknown.

960
01:35:26,430 --> 01:35:30,410
But again, if we make a decision on a debt rating,

961
01:35:30,410 --> 01:35:36,490
on a debt level of 180 mill, let's almost throw a number out there, 180 million, and

962
01:35:36,490 --> 01:35:41,690
it drops us to a single rating, we don't know if that's going to drop us to that.

963
01:35:42,350 --> 01:35:43,910
So they're directly proportional.

964
01:35:44,530 --> 01:35:46,910
Well, but you're not, you don't have to go up to that rating.

965
01:35:47,070 --> 01:35:52,790
You would have that decision at the point of any single or project that pushed you to that

966
01:35:52,790 --> 01:35:54,390
point, I guess.

967
01:35:59,570 --> 01:36:17,490
The other thing I would add, you know, when we're talking about debt and debt metrics, is to take you back to this slide here, which shows the five categories that were laid in on, where debt is one factor, correct, so it's 20% of our overall rating.

968
01:36:17,490 --> 01:36:42,190
So, this can kind of give you the information based on those criteria, so you might lean towards certain metrics related to debt, but the other four categories that are, you know, debt specifics still have an impact on the rating, that tie back to the devil.

969
01:36:42,190 --> 01:36:48,850
So just assigning those types of criteria just within the debt section as I'm going to guarantee that

970
01:36:48,850 --> 01:36:55,610
doubly or whatever just I wanted to point that out from that criteria and the other thing

971
01:36:55,610 --> 01:37:06,980
is just to bring you back to the slides where I did kind of show the two categories which are

972
01:37:06,980 --> 01:37:14,940
We can calculate the third category is a little bit more of a mystery, but these two categories

973
01:37:14,940 --> 01:37:23,840
we can relatively easily calculate or replicate in terms of what it takes to jump to that next level,

974
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:26,320
in terms of impact on debt.

975
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:41,220
The cost for that service and the net direct debt per capita in terms of where that, where we'll push you in terms of having an impact on that rating.

976
01:37:41,460 --> 01:37:46,300
So I don't know if that's how pull or not. Supervisor Latak, did you have a question?

977
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:55,840
Yes, thank you. At a primary meeting, I remember something about our total debt limit was roughly 410 million, was that correct?

978
01:37:57,580 --> 01:37:58,140
466.

979
01:37:58,220 --> 01:37:58,540
6.

980
01:37:58,820 --> 01:37:59,240
4K.

981
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:03,640
And at that time, I think there was something where you would see that we don't want

982
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:05,980
to go over 50% of that out.

983
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:08,040
So, that correct.

984
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:20,260
Legalee, you can, but again, according to our data, we have shown one county that went to 50.18%.

985
01:38:20,260 --> 01:38:21,200
Right.

986
01:38:21,700 --> 01:38:25,820
And the only part of that is they know we all want to keep this bond

987
01:38:25,820 --> 01:38:32,520
and they have with double A, but if we don't borrow what we need and get the right projects

988
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:35,640
done, a great bond rating doesn't do this any good.

989
01:38:35,860 --> 01:38:36,660
Okay, true.

990
01:38:39,420 --> 01:38:40,520
Supervisor Medine.

991
01:38:41,300 --> 01:38:48,400
You could go back to that last slide you had that showed the categories for factors.

992
01:38:51,140 --> 01:38:52,520
The five categories?

993
01:38:52,980 --> 01:38:53,580
Okay.

994
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:55,640
You know, you're going to be...

995
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:57,540
For S&P ratings, you mean?

996
01:38:57,540 --> 01:38:57,880
Yes.

997
01:38:57,880 --> 01:38:59,080
Okay,

998
01:39:02,700 --> 01:39:12,080
the management, oops, the management set in there, does that, is that evaluate management

999
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:19,200
of finances, or does that a broader category does it evaluate the management of our entire

1000
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:19,720
infrastructure?

1001
01:39:20,020 --> 01:39:21,180
I'll call it.

1002
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:24,000
What?

1003
01:39:24,220 --> 01:39:25,960
The words of those, that things go bad.

1004
01:39:25,980 --> 01:39:26,400
Hold on.

1005
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:29,640
I want to read something to you.

1006
01:39:39,270 --> 01:39:39,670
Yes.

1007
01:39:39,990 --> 01:39:41,530
That's what it is.

1008
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:47,180
So management, which is 20%.

1009
01:39:47,180 --> 01:39:50,560
The initial management assessment considers three subfactors.

1010
01:39:51,380 --> 01:39:56,380
Budgeting practices, which is 35%, which considers your revenue and expenditure assumptions

1011
01:39:56,380 --> 01:39:58,300
and budget adjustments and updates.

1012
01:39:59,180 --> 01:40:03,980
It also includes long-term planning, which is 35% which considers long-term financial

1013
01:40:03,980 --> 01:40:09,760
amp-capital planning, and then policies which is 30% investment management policies,

1014
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,840
debt management policies, and reserve and liquidity policies.

1015
01:40:14,860 --> 01:40:17,180
So, can I just say that?

1016
01:40:17,340 --> 01:40:21,720
So when it talks about budget factors, and it looks at that, and even though reserves,

1017
01:40:21,900 --> 01:40:26,220
it's its own policy, so one of the criteria that they'll ask about when we have a reading

1018
01:40:26,220 --> 01:40:30,420
call is, are you using your reserves to balance your budget?

1019
01:40:30,420 --> 01:40:35,000
And if so, what reserves are you using and how are you using them?

1020
01:40:36,380 --> 01:40:45,140
They will ask about revenue sources and the different types of revenue sources.

1021
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:50,140
And how close you are in terms of estimating your revenue sources?

1022
01:40:50,260 --> 01:40:52,060
Like, what percentage are you within?

1023
01:40:52,940 --> 01:40:55,420
They will look at,

1024
01:40:55,420 --> 01:41:02,100
I'm just trying to give you the practical examples of what that means when we talk about budget factors.

1025
01:41:04,930 --> 01:41:11,910
For casting, then we'll address are you forecasting the current mirror in the next year,

1026
01:41:12,310 --> 01:41:18,530
or you do have a 10 year projection of what's going to happen in the county,

1027
01:41:18,950 --> 01:41:23,010
both expenditures and your revenues, and that we don't have.

1028
01:41:23,010 --> 01:41:29,150
So, those are some of the additional criteria that they will look at in terms of your policies.

1029
01:41:34,770 --> 01:41:39,290
That wasn't all inclusive, it was just to give you a sense of what they're asking.

1030
01:41:47,480 --> 01:41:54,560
Is there any questions on the impact of the debt burden as a cost that we could answer?

1031
01:41:57,700 --> 01:41:58,740
Supervisor Merissum.

1032
01:41:58,940 --> 01:41:59,500
Thank you.

1033
01:42:00,140 --> 01:42:06,980
I was actually looking forward to having some kind of collective idea of what our tolerance is for debt.

1034
01:42:08,620 --> 01:42:13,980
tonight because it actually then allows our staff to provide the information that we

1035
01:42:13,980 --> 01:42:19,740
need as a collective body to do the work. But what happened tonight is we have

1036
01:42:20,100 --> 01:42:24,620
personalities that get in the way of actual progress, again, and it completely

1037
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:33,780
tracks, completely of our being attacked. That's not right. Excuse me, supervisor

1038
01:42:33,780 --> 01:42:37,040
But Supervisor Marisi has the floor.

1039
01:42:38,040 --> 01:42:41,760
Well, the discussions got to be pertinent to the agenda item too.

1040
01:42:42,620 --> 01:42:43,820
I agree.

1041
01:42:44,940 --> 01:42:50,620
To your point, I think it is difficult to gauge where the board is at in terms of understanding

1042
01:42:50,620 --> 01:42:51,840
on debt policy.

1043
01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:54,720
This isn't an attempt to make a decision.

1044
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:58,620
This is really to gauge for ourselves where we're at.

1045
01:43:00,100 --> 01:43:07,180
We need to make a decision and we need data and we can't do that without the body actually having all the information available.

1046
01:43:07,380 --> 01:43:18,660
The whole point of the committee of the whole is to gather that information to have a free and frank discussion about where we would like to see the vision of the county move forward to.

1047
01:43:18,660 --> 01:43:23,960
we are not allowed to do that if we don't actually have the information available to

1048
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:29,840
kind of check the temperature of the entire committee, the entire body. We've been in this

1049
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:35,700
discussion for the past, at least for me, for the past nearly eight years now of how we're going

1050
01:43:35,700 --> 01:43:40,560
to proceed and how we're going to move forward. We've tried committees of the whole that have failed

1051
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:47,960
in the past. We've actually tried being told what to do by past administrations of how we're going

1052
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:53,720
do this and it failed miserably and those people have been removed from the board by the

1053
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:59,720
electorate. So now we're at the point where we actually have an opportunity to get the work done,

1054
01:44:00,020 --> 01:44:06,960
to check the pulse of this body by just throwing some numbers out there. Does it mean anything?

1055
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:13,020
No. Is it a pole? No. But what it does give us, it gives us a range of tolerance of how much money

1056
01:44:13,020 --> 01:44:17,620
we're willing to spend to actually accomplish the task that is the biggest task of this generation.

1057
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:25,040
This generation right here is going to build and put our community into so much debt, but

1058
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:33,260
we know we have a responsibility to our community for public safety, but also to our

1059
01:44:33,260 --> 01:44:39,200
sheriff's office for their safety, for our judges for their safety, but we'll be prevented

1060
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:44,800
from doing that tonight because of some misnomer of a straw poll.

1061
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:46,900
I don't think that is fair to our community.

1062
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:51,060
I don't think that is fair to us as a committee and I don't think it's fair to our staff

1063
01:44:51,060 --> 01:44:54,980
to not actually be able to get this work done, we're on the cusp of doing it.

1064
01:44:55,120 --> 01:44:59,960
I applied you, Mr. Chair, for actually generating these discussions over a course of...

1065
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:24,740
Many months and many weeks of hard work with UW Extension and our staff are actually getting it done, because this is what we've all wanted to do, and this is what we're prevented from doing outside of this building, unless we're in committee. We can't have quorum outside of this room, but we can have this discussion here and now tonight if we choose to.

1066
01:45:24,740 --> 01:45:31,620
I highly recommend that we actually do do this work and we actually get this work done get staffed the tools they need at least a

1067
01:45:31,620 --> 01:45:33,480
temperature and

1068
01:45:33,480 --> 01:45:36,200
move us forward so we can get this work done and

1069
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:42,900
Supervisor Jikowski if you feel I attack you I am very solar and I apologize for that perceived attack

1070
01:45:44,500 --> 01:45:51,860
I do think we can have a meaningful discussion about the ramifications of these particular ranges and I think is a board

1071
01:45:51,860 --> 01:45:54,080
We need to get there

1072
01:45:54,080 --> 01:45:59,800
sooner or later we have to make this decision and I would rather see us make this decision well and

1073
01:45:59,800 --> 01:46:06,260
form than not actually understanding the ramifications of the decisions we're making and what

1074
01:46:06,260 --> 01:46:13,900
that means in terms of debt service and what that means and to for the tax bill of county residents

1075
01:46:13,900 --> 01:46:15,740
Supervisor, I'd track your jersey.

1076
01:46:18,380 --> 01:46:25,780
I just wanted to add to the conversation and just because I've heard it a couple times.

1077
01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:43,480
Having a tolerance for debt or setting metrics or measuring your debt in a certain way doesn't limit your capacity to accomplish your goals and your projects.

1078
01:46:43,900 --> 01:46:51,140
It might change the timing of when you have certain accomplishments, but it shouldn't

1079
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:56,460
negate completing those tasks.

1080
01:46:56,620 --> 01:47:02,500
It just provides that you have to have a better plan to do them.

1081
01:47:02,700 --> 01:47:11,020
It shouldn't mean that you can't do them, and I just want to just mention it again because

1082
01:47:11,020 --> 01:47:26,480
I know when we look at projects of the past, there has been quite a bit of conversation about, you know, building to a budget in a negative way,

1083
01:47:29,230 --> 01:47:34,030
but that was due to the choices we made about that project.

1084
01:47:34,030 --> 01:47:44,330
So, not all budgets are bad, I guess this is what I'm trying to say cautiously.

1085
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:49,340
Supervisor Splinter, then supervisor Medina.

1086
01:47:50,560 --> 01:48:00,520
I agree with supervisor Maurice, off to the point where we're accomplishing a lot, but at this point,

1087
01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:07,920
or you're trying to get a gauge of we're representing a lot of public here, I don't think

1088
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:15,280
is that hard to schedule a committee of the whole meeting, open to the public comment and

1089
01:48:15,280 --> 01:48:25,120
zoom it in on what level of debt for the county is the public comfortable with.

1090
01:48:25,120 --> 01:48:31,200
not us, we can do it too, but at that meeting, I'll put my sticker up on the board,

1091
01:48:31,740 --> 01:48:40,020
where I think what we need to get some major project done, and you can start the meeting with

1092
01:48:41,220 --> 01:48:46,440
Jennifer, Jennifer, here's the expert. We're all, some people can tell you how I go out and

1093
01:48:46,440 --> 01:48:52,600
how to go ahead and how to change the truck engine and whatever else. We've got all kinds of

1094
01:48:52,600 --> 01:49:00,240
disciplines, but you have given one that we rely on saying, okay, to get these, you want

1095
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:05,820
two major projects done, I hate to keep saying it over again, the jail and the courthouse.

1096
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:10,760
But if you want this done, this is the level of that you're going to have to be comfortable with,

1097
01:49:10,820 --> 01:49:18,200
and then you make a decision, with public input, then we can, we can say we've done this in an

1098
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:26,460
in transparent way and the public was involved and we all represent about 2,800 people and we

1099
01:49:26,460 --> 01:49:32,240
can kind of make a good decision that way. I don't like doing it when it's not open to the

1100
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:38,520
public and it's not open to the public but it's not open to public comment. I think the public

1101
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:48,180
always has a right to say three minutes anything. I will quickly point out that a committee of the

1102
01:49:48,180 --> 01:49:55,660
The public is more than welcome to attend. We are not making any decisions, Mike, and, again,

1103
01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:03,620
I don't know how to get this point across, but as a board, we need to work collectively.

1104
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:09,920
You don't represent 2,800 people or whatever the number is. You represent the entire county.

1105
01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:16,780
All of us are elected to represent Portage County. We're not doing anything under the table,

1106
01:50:16,780 --> 01:50:31,260
We're not trying to not be transparent, we're trying to get collectively as a board to a place where we're comfortable with a certain level of debt and what the ramification of that debt is for county taxpayers.

1107
01:50:32,100 --> 01:50:39,840
Beyond that, we will then look at projects and see how those projects fit within that debt and what limitations they are.

1108
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:52,660
Once we as a board agreed to take on those projects, then we turn those projects and the debt service and the phasing and the strategic planning for how those projects move ahead.

1109
01:50:52,980 --> 01:50:54,880
We turn that back over to staff.

1110
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:57,280
Director Josie, did you have a comment?

1111
01:50:59,100 --> 01:50:59,600
Oh, yeah.

1112
01:51:02,380 --> 01:51:06,340
Again, I actually think this is a useful conversation that we're having.

1113
01:51:10,620 --> 01:51:37,700
I can understand supervisors, supervisors, concerns, but just because I would really like to know how my fellow supervisors are, what is, what is their perception right now tonight of what kind of debt we can, we we reasonably have to consider we're here to represent the public.

1114
01:51:39,560 --> 01:51:44,200
You're going to go to the citizens and ask them how much they want their taxes to increase.

1115
01:51:45,160 --> 01:51:46,360
I don't think so.

1116
01:51:46,860 --> 01:51:53,040
But I do know that they like having public safety and that when we raise taxes, we have

1117
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,020
a safer community if it's spent well.

1118
01:51:55,480 --> 01:52:01,420
But I'd like to know what the feeling of the board, other board members are.

1119
01:52:04,610 --> 01:52:05,650
That's it.

1120
01:52:05,650 --> 01:52:10,410
So maybe as a starting point, do you have a point that you're at?

1121
01:52:12,420 --> 01:52:13,360
I do.

1122
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:15,820
I do as a matter of fact.

1123
01:52:16,040 --> 01:52:19,180
Dave, if I would ask you procedurally.

1124
01:52:19,820 --> 01:52:20,760
I mean, it's no.

1125
01:52:21,220 --> 01:52:22,720
We're not going to have a roll call,

1126
01:52:22,860 --> 01:52:26,460
I'll say, you know, in lieu of putting a dot on there,

1127
01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:29,440
tell us where your feelings are, so I mean,

1128
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:53,000
Again, I think to chair Rezers comment, there's I think some good conversation and my suggestion is, let's not devolve and to say that we're going to take votes on what every supervisor's comfort level is on the debt scale. The point was we're getting away from that.

1129
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:57,560
And if at some point, this is a counterproductive conversation.

1130
01:53:01,410 --> 01:53:05,410
Again, I think the intent is to bring this information to the board,

1131
01:53:06,310 --> 01:53:10,650
and hopefully the board understands the ramifications

1132
01:53:10,650 --> 01:53:14,630
or what these ranges mean, or how we compare with other counties,

1133
01:53:14,830 --> 01:53:16,710
and what that actually means.

1134
01:53:18,390 --> 01:53:22,910
Beyond that, I'm not sure how much further we can go this evening.

1135
01:53:24,570 --> 01:53:27,410
Supervisor Randasa, then supervisor of magicalsky.

1136
01:53:28,110 --> 01:53:29,810
This might be for corporate counsel.

1137
01:53:29,990 --> 01:53:32,970
Is there a reason that those of us who want to put up the DM stickers,

1138
01:53:33,010 --> 01:53:35,870
just put up the DM stickers, and those who don't don't.

1139
01:53:35,950 --> 01:53:38,470
Because I trust corporate counsel is judgment on this stuff.

1140
01:53:38,670 --> 01:53:39,430
That's why they're hired.

1141
01:53:39,610 --> 01:53:40,710
I do not have a law degree.

1142
01:53:40,810 --> 01:53:42,990
If he says it's okay, I believe in that it's okay.

1143
01:53:43,710 --> 01:53:45,870
And I think that'd be a good way to end it.

1144
01:53:45,890 --> 01:53:47,990
And if somebody doesn't want to put it up, don't put it up.

1145
01:53:48,190 --> 01:53:49,370
Again, this is just a discussion.

1146
01:53:49,370 --> 01:53:57,290
But I completely agree that having some idea when we leave here, where people feel, would be

1147
01:53:57,290 --> 01:53:57,890
beneficial.

1148
01:53:58,450 --> 01:54:02,590
Like, it doesn't, again, it's not concrete, we're not, this is not setting up the template.

1149
01:54:03,090 --> 01:54:07,990
But otherwise, I'm going to walk out of here as I often do, having no idea what most of these

1150
01:54:07,990 --> 01:54:12,490
people think, and I don't know how we're supposed to find that out.

1151
01:54:12,970 --> 01:54:17,750
At this point, my suggestion is to not do that, we've moved beyond that at this point, so

1152
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:24,910
would, you know, as the discussion has developed tonight and I'd say we're beyond that at

1153
01:54:24,910 --> 01:54:31,360
this point. So I'd recommend against it. Supervisor Jakowski and Supervisor Medeen.

1154
01:54:31,900 --> 01:54:37,180
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think Mr. Rand as I'll just hit on ahead here. He has no idea.

1155
01:54:37,700 --> 01:54:44,320
And sometimes we all have no ideas on some of this stuff. There's one person in this room that's

1156
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:47,220
and expert on public finance.

1157
01:54:47,220 --> 01:54:48,400
Well, maybe two or three.

1158
01:54:48,660 --> 01:54:50,220
I guess I should apologize.

1159
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:52,120
One, that's probably employed by this county.

1160
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:56,120
And one kind of employed by this county through extension.

1161
01:54:56,820 --> 01:54:58,100
And the other one hired by this county.

1162
01:54:58,220 --> 01:54:59,820
So I guess we employ almost a little.

1163
01:55:00,860 --> 01:55:02,960
But those people are experts.

1164
01:55:04,680 --> 01:55:07,040
And that's who we need to look for to tell us

1165
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:10,940
what debt is comfortable to them.

1166
01:55:10,940 --> 01:55:20,470
a range and what impacts those are going to have for each of us to sit here and try to

1167
01:55:20,470 --> 01:55:28,210
be experts in county finance county debt is is ridiculous the informational part that we

1168
01:55:28,210 --> 01:55:34,170
got tonight is great it shows us what where other counties are at so if they come

1169
01:55:34,170 --> 01:55:40,190
to us and say we're going to be at that if we're going to pick a number of be here it's

1170
01:55:40,190 --> 01:55:45,350
to take us to $1,700 per capita, we don't what effect that has or kind of what effect that

1171
01:55:45,350 --> 01:55:51,030
has because it's kind of still a mystery magic ate ball. But we will know that then.

1172
01:55:53,010 --> 01:56:00,090
I would like to see Director Josie working with our financial advisors to come up with a couple

1173
01:56:00,090 --> 01:56:09,530
scenarios of debt that are a tasteful to them palatable to them. And then it's going to go through

1174
01:56:09,530 --> 01:56:13,810
finance. And if you want to have a committee of the whole show up at finance, each

1175
01:56:13,810 --> 01:56:17,690
every one of you can show up at that finance committee. And you know what, if you see

1176
01:56:17,690 --> 01:56:21,250
that number range and you don't like it, you think it should be higher or lower at that

1177
01:56:21,250 --> 01:56:26,310
point of time, what a great place to do it. That's why we have the committee system.

1178
01:56:27,090 --> 01:56:30,590
And that's why we have the system that brings it to the county board. If somebody from

1179
01:56:30,590 --> 01:56:34,390
the public at that point of time sees it and says, oh my god, they want to take the debt

1180
01:56:34,390 --> 01:56:41,530
a 200 million. I can't deal with that. They have the opportunity to come to that committee meeting

1181
01:56:41,530 --> 01:56:42,190
and speak.

1182
01:56:44,810 --> 01:56:49,270
You know, we talked about taking the temperature of the room. That's a straw poll.

1183
01:56:49,750 --> 01:57:01,890
That's on fine lines of taking a vote. And we've said things like, put it in a policy plan

1184
01:57:01,890 --> 01:57:06,690
and then bring it to finance. That's not what the committee will hold is designed for the

1185
01:57:06,690 --> 01:57:10,570
Media whole is to disseminate information, have a discussion,

1186
01:57:11,330 --> 01:57:12,310
not make decisions.

1187
01:57:13,150 --> 01:57:14,910
So let's get this in front of finance.

1188
01:57:15,630 --> 01:57:17,710
With what our experts come up with,

1189
01:57:18,090 --> 01:57:20,510
if our finance committee doesn't feel that that's right,

1190
01:57:20,670 --> 01:57:22,990
that they want to adjust it at that point in time,

1191
01:57:23,490 --> 01:57:24,370
that's their preview.

1192
01:57:24,590 --> 01:57:26,370
That's why they have a finance committee.

1193
01:57:27,550 --> 01:57:29,070
If you're certain that finance committee

1194
01:57:29,070 --> 01:57:30,210
and don't like it at that time,

1195
01:57:30,310 --> 01:57:32,010
you have the opportunity to speak.

1196
01:57:32,850 --> 01:57:34,790
If you still don't like it and pass this finance,

1197
01:57:34,790 --> 01:57:39,390
you have the opportunity to speak about it here at the board. But let's do it properly.

1198
01:57:44,310 --> 01:57:55,810
Does the board feel like they have adequate information to understand financial limitations

1199
01:57:55,810 --> 01:58:02,370
of a debt policy or measurements and metrics that are part of a debt policy?

1200
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:09,540
Okay, so check mark in one area.

1201
01:58:09,600 --> 01:58:10,760
I'm sure you're ahead.

1202
01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:11,600
That's a struggle.

1203
01:58:13,320 --> 01:58:23,940
Again, in terms of asking director Josie or Carl or Kristen to come up with one or two or three numbers,

1204
01:58:25,380 --> 01:58:26,660
the decision is the boards.

1205
01:58:27,980 --> 01:58:32,460
The only thing is on there to bring us the information and the ramifications of those decisions.

1206
01:58:32,460 --> 01:58:37,800
the decision is the board, the board sets the policy. So I think we need to be cautious about

1207
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:44,240
over-stapping one direction or the other. We shouldn't be forcing staff to make a policy decision.

1208
01:58:44,660 --> 01:58:49,060
We should be asking staff to inform us to make the best decision as a board.

1209
01:58:52,880 --> 01:59:02,440
Supervisor Latic. Thank you. One word is, you know, we can set a higher limit. Doesn't mean we have to

1210
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:03,120
Correct.

1211
01:59:03,380 --> 01:59:04,220
That's correct.

1212
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:08,160
All right.

1213
01:59:08,460 --> 01:59:10,980
Well, we are a supervisor, Medean.

1214
01:59:11,480 --> 01:59:13,400
Technical question might help.

1215
01:59:13,700 --> 01:59:17,880
Can you get those charge back up or are they lost forever?

1216
01:59:18,240 --> 01:59:19,380
They're posted on the way.

1217
01:59:20,140 --> 01:59:21,380
They're available too.

1218
01:59:21,460 --> 01:59:24,840
They're posted on the web, but I wanted to refer to one.

1219
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:26,600
Which one is it?

1220
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:29,100
The one that you showed the outstanding debt limit.

1221
01:59:29,760 --> 01:59:34,260
And then each of the four or five categories along that.

1222
01:59:34,260 --> 01:59:39,420
to support the county? Yeah. Which is maybe the third or fourth one. I have a question

1223
01:59:39,420 --> 01:59:46,340
at one specific area of that. That might help me to make some decisions in the future

1224
01:59:46,340 --> 01:59:47,360
on what we're talking about.

1225
01:59:49,620 --> 01:59:52,100
It's the first one under county from Arizona.

1226
01:59:57,590 --> 01:59:57,910
See you

1227
01:59:57,910 --> 01:59:59,410
I thought I'd mess it up.

1228
02:00:00,530 --> 02:00:04,130
It's like talking about force of act. Yeah, other way.

1229
02:00:08,060 --> 02:00:23,000
It's the first one, Andrew. Yeah. Okay. That. Maybe I'm just reading that. But, but that's a very bottom line. It shows S&P double a caps. Is that correct?

1230
02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:30,360
I indicated when I went through those that that's what I've curating is. I don't know what it would be if we. Okay.

1231
02:00:30,360 --> 02:00:35,620
adjusted yeah I don't I don't know it's it's I just was to what I current population equal

1232
02:00:35,620 --> 02:00:40,820
as well throughout I don't know what I'm waiting would be thank you

1233
02:00:45,430 --> 02:00:46,130
I have what I

1234
02:00:47,490 --> 02:00:55,030
need all right I think this has been a useful conversation I think we did it to get

1235
02:00:55,030 --> 02:00:57,890
her as a board I

1236
02:01:00,200 --> 02:01:03,640
think we still have more work to do as a board before we're ready

1237
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:09,660
to make these decisions and looking at what's in the capital improvement plan and looking at

1238
02:01:09,660 --> 02:01:10,380
a debt policy.

1239
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:14,500
But again, we'll work with Director Josie.

1240
02:01:14,680 --> 02:01:18,840
The next step would be to bring something to finance committee.

1241
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:29,520
I'd like to thank everybody for their patience and participation in this evening.

1242
02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:38,420
I'm now going to adjourn the meeting of the whole and move back into the regular county board meeting.

1243
02:01:42,150 --> 02:01:47,050
Next meeting date, December 17, 2024 at 5 p.m.

1244
02:01:49,970 --> 02:01:51,190
Take a motion to adjourn.

1245
02:01:51,330 --> 02:01:54,550
Motion by Rindazzo, the seconded by due back, we stand adjourned.